# Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border



## Billy_Kinetta

Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?

Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'


----------



## mudwhistle

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'


Cluster bomb those a-holes.


----------



## Weatherman2020

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'


What's known as a target rich environment.


----------



## SassyIrishLass

The Jooos say "come get some"


----------



## Sixties Fan

I have been posting most of what has been going on since last Friday's march on the "Who are the Palestinians" Thread.
Feel free to read the posts, those who would like to.

Since this is going to continue until May 14th, and probably beyond, let us keep all news about this non original event by Hamas and others in Gaza in order to try to invade Israel and destroy it, on this separate thread.

The news are so many that it does deserve its own thread after all.

So, here it goes:
------------------------


Attempting to learn from their last violent day of border rage, Hamas has instructed its faithful to NOT post photos of Gazan victims in military uniforms… and without their weapons.

The #PAsbara ploy is to confuse Social Media Justice Warriors (you know, the ones saying Kaddish for the dead terrorists) and to ensure they will continue to blame Israel with their mighty keyboards.

On the bright side, despite the planned 60 thousand tire burn-off on the Gaza side of the border… current weather predictions are for strong winds from the East… to keep the acrid, rubber smoke of burning tires away from Israel.

(full article online)

Hamas Instructs #PAsbara Division to Downplay Victims’ Terrorist Backgrounds


----------



## Sixties Fan

"Peaceful March" is totally "Peaceful".


Watch: Armed terrorist near security fence


----------



## Sixties Fan

Where is the famous Palestinian solidarity? Where is BDS? Where are the Hamas leaders? Where are the famous media that make public opinion? They are all in Gaza, because there is Israel to execrate, to crucify, to condemn. A hypocrisy bathed in the blood of so many innocents, and they want to wash the blood of Palestinian terrorists with that of the Israelis. Perversity incarnate!

Imagine if Hamas had brought those 30,000 to the Iranian border. The ayatollahs would have sent them the Basiji, the Shiite militia. To shoot on the crowd, to make mass arrests, to torture them in Evin prison, to make desaparecidos. Let's think about what the Iranians did when their women tried to take off the veil on the street or their poor marched for bread. They did it to their own citizens.

Imagine if Hamas had brought those 30,000 against the Erdogan in Turkey. Ask the Kurds - they know what would have happened to the

Palestinians. And if Hamas had brought those 30,000 against the Egyptian border, would Al-Sisi have used white gloves?

Do we ever hear of Palestinian Arab marches in Jordan, where they make up the vast majority of the population? No? Because they remember what King Hussein did to them in 1972: 3,400 Palestinians killed in cold blood.

(full article online)

Why don't the Palestinians march on Iran, Syria, Egypt and Jordan?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  No children were shot at last Friday, but the UN cannot help itself but repeat what the Palestinians themselves say, whiteout showing actual proof of it.]

The UN envoy for the Middle East expressed concern Thursday of the “preparations and rhetoric” for the second Palestinian March of Return to be held along the Gaza border Friday, a week after protests morphed into deadly violence.

“Israeli forces should exercise maximum restraint and Palestinians should avoid friction at the Gaza fence,” Nickolay Mladenov said in a statement Thursday, as both sides girded for what isesxpected to be a repeat of last weekend’s protests.

---------
On Thursday, the Hamas-run Gaza health ministry announced the death of an additional Palestinian protester who was hit by Israeli fire during border clashes last Friday.

His death brings the toll from Friday’s clashes to 20, according to the ministry’s figures.

However, there have been discrepancies in Palestinian reports on the Gaza death toll from Friday. While Hamas claimed Monday that 18 had died, the official news agency of the Palestinian Authority had the number at 16. Israel has no official death toll figures. Over 1,000 were reported injured.
-----------
Mladenov’s Thursday statement was nearly identical to one he made prior to the first March of Return, which coincided with Land Day last Friday.
----------
After the last protests, Hamas leaders boasted that the next one would not necessarily stop at the border and that the terror group could have more “surprises” in store for Israel.

(full article online)

UN expresses concern as Israel, Gaza gird for fresh Friday violence


----------



## miketx

Maybe they enjoy getting shot?


----------



## Sixties Fan

miketx said:


> Maybe they enjoy getting shot?


Islam cares about land and power, not about their people.


----------



## TheOldSchool

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'


How exciting


----------



## Sixties Fan

In case the point was missed this time around, the statement from the Brigades promises: "The blood of the pure martyrs will not go to waste. The enemy will pay a price at a time and place and in a way that the resistance decides.” 



None of this is to say that Gazans do not have legitimate grievances. They face a triple blockade from Israel to its north, Egypt to its south and the Palestinian Authority, that last year sought to choke off the strip from the electric grid in Israel. The fact that at least 16 Palestinians were killed in the march compounds this suffering.

And that suffering demands attention from people of conscience. But this attention should not treat the arsonist like the fire victim. The arsonist is the march's organizer, Hamas. For this group, any Palestinian casualties in the march were a feature and not a bug. Like its tactics in previous Gaza wars, where it launched rockets from apartment buildings and schools, Hamas seeks Palestinian casualties to earn legitimacy for its armed struggle.

(full article online)

Palestinian Casualties Are No Accident for Hamas


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mainstream media only has a framework of violence to understand the Question of Palestine, which makes it ill-equipped to understand and explain one of the largest civil protests among Palestinians in recent history. That is why the media sounds like it is trying to shove a square into a circle as it fails to explicitly say Israel executed 18 Palestinians and injured 1400 others where no lethal threat was posed and while Palestinians were literally on their own lands in the buffer zone - 300-500 meters of agricultural lands Israel arbitrarily marked as a buffer zone- and not even at Israel's undeclared militarized border.

This is about Israel's settler anxiety and the inability to make Palestinians disappear- they have not forgotten, not assimilated into other countries, and struggle to return motivated by love and belonging. ~ Noura Erakat


----------



## Sixties Fan

April 4, 2018


To the Editor:

“A Test for Israel in Gaza” (editorial, April 4) doesn’t mention, or minimizes, basic facts that led to the situation in Gaza.

*First, we withdrew entirely from the Gaza Strip in August 2005, removing every Israeli resident, home, factory and synagogue. We are not responsible for the well-being of the people of Gaza.*

In the years after our disengagement, billions of dollars in aid poured into the Gaza Strip. Instead of improving the lives of Palestinians, Hamas, internationally recognized as a terrorist group, misappropriated these funds, using them to build rockets and to dig terror tunnels with the intent of harming Israeli civilians.

*Second, the restrictions that exist on Gaza are not the cause of the situation there but rather a result of Hamas’s refusal to renounce violence. This is not Israel’s condition, but rather that put forward by the United States, the European Union and the United Nations as part of the Quartet framework. If there were no terror, there would be no restrictions.*

*Finally, the fence that was attacked over the last week separates a sovereign, democratic state and a murderous terrorist entity.* Our security forces acted judiciously, and a vast majority of those killed were terrorists who have been identified as members of Hamas.

These were not “peaceful protests.” As we warned the Security Council last week, armed terrorists were dispersed among the protesters, and numerous efforts were made to breach the fence. *Every critic of Israel must ask himself how he would expect the security forces of his own country to react if terrorists armed with rifles and Molotov cocktails began to march on his country’s border.*

Hamas has announced that it will continue to hide behind women and children and will plan further attacks on our sovereignty. It is the peak of hypocrisy for the international community to criticize Israel while ignoring the real factors causing pain and suffering to the innocent people of Gaza.

DANNY DANON, NEW YORK

The writer is Israel’s ambassador to the United Nations.

Opinion | Crisis in Gaza: The Israeli Point of View


----------



## Sixties Fan

n the clip of a phone conversation between a COGAT official and a bus company owner, the Israeli security official can be heard warning the Palestinian against “taking part in the terror” by driving Gazans to the protest as the companies did last week.

The driver responds by insisting that he and others had heeded Israeli warnings, but that those who refused to comply with Hamas pressure were jailed and replaced by other drivers willing to ferry Palestinians to the protests.

“We are not helping. Hamas came, arrested us, and filed a complaint against us,” he contended. “What are we supposed to do in such a situation?”

(full article online)

Hamas accused of jailing bus drivers who refuse to take Gazans to protests


----------



## Sixties Fan

Terror group tells protesters to avoid friction with Israeli troops; Gazans urge tires be painted and planted with flowers instead of burned
---
A group of Palestinian youths launched a campaign under the banner, “Instead of setting them on fire, let’s decorate them” — a reference to the plan to burn the tires.

The youths were seen painting tires in bright colors and planting some of them with flowers.

(full article online)

Amid fears of fresh Gaza fighting, Hamas issues rare call for calm


----------



## Hollie

Well, this is certainly what one might expect as pointless and counter-productive. However, considering the source, what else would be expected.



Gazans to burn thousands of tires at border

GAZANS TO BURN THOUSANDS OF TIRES AT BORDER


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Mainstream media only has a framework of violence to understand the Question of Palestine, which makes it ill-equipped to understand and explain one of the largest civil protests among Palestinians in recent history. That is why the media sounds like it is trying to shove a square into a circle as it fails to explicitly say Israel executed 18 Palestinians and injured 1400 others where no lethal threat was posed and while Palestinians were literally on their own lands in the buffer zone - 300-500 meters of agricultural lands Israel arbitrarily marked as a buffer zone- and not even at Israel's undeclared militarized border.
> 
> This is about Israel's settler anxiety and the inability to make Palestinians disappear- they have not forgotten, not assimilated into other countries, and struggle to return motivated by love and belonging. ~ Noura Erakat


 
Deflection;
    The subject of the thread is about Hamas at Israel’s border with weapons, encouraging Palestinians to storm the border, and even using Human Shields during the Passover Holiday which has NOTHING to do with your post.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Mainstream media only has a framework of violence to understand the Question of Palestine, which makes it ill-equipped to understand and explain one of the largest civil protests among Palestinians in recent history. That is why the media sounds like it is trying to shove a square into a circle as it fails to explicitly say Israel executed 18 Palestinians and injured 1400 others where no lethal threat was posed and while Palestinians were literally on their own lands in the buffer zone - 300-500 meters of agricultural lands Israel arbitrarily marked as a buffer zone- and not even at Israel's undeclared militarized border.
> 
> This is about Israel's settler anxiety and the inability to make Palestinians disappear- they have not forgotten, not assimilated into other countries, and struggle to return motivated by love and belonging. ~ Noura Erakat



Since when are assault rifles and grenades and IEDs "no lethal threat"?

How can those of us arguing the Israeli side take those arguing the Arab Palestinian side SERIOUSLY when you post such nonsense?  The Arab Palestinian arguments are getting increasingly ridiculous.  The efforts to paint Israels (read: Jews) as demons fail all normal rules of logic.


----------



## Roudy

SassyIrishLass said:


> The Jooos say "come get some"


Clint Eastwood style!  Do you feel lucky, Achmed?  Go ahead, make my day!


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Israel did exactly as I fought it needed to do with the smoke.  Used big fans]

 Palestinian holds tyres at the Israel-Gaza border during a protest demanding the right to return to their homeland, east of Gaza City April 6, 2018 / MOHAMMED SALEM/ REUTERS









Palestinian media reported that IDF forces are using giant fans to dispense the smoke while the IDF Spokesperson declared the border fence a closed military zone and warned the IDF would not allow it to be breached. 

(full article online)

Into the black smoke: Inside the 'Great March of Return'


[ And in the coming days and weeks, the Gaza People will find out what their leaders brilliant idea of burning tires has brought to their environment ]


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel and Hamas geared up for another showdown on the Gaza-Israel border with the IDF deploying snipers and tanks ahead of the expected mass protest, and Palestinians stockpiling thousands of tires to burn. However, witnesses said that Friday’s demonstration appeared significantly smaller than the 30,000 participants at last week’s protest.

Palestinians were burning tires, sending thick plumes of black smoke into the air, and others threw Molotov cocktails and stones at Israeli soldiers over the border fence, who responded with tear gas and live fire, witnesses said.

Thousands of Palestinians were streaming to tent camps along the border. Hundreds arrived before Muslim noon prayers on Friday at one of the tent camps near the border community of Khuzaa.

Israeli forces fired tear gas that landed inside the encampment, causing people to run and push each other to the other side of the camp. The canisters landed where TV live vans were positioned.

(full article online)

IDF uses tear gas, live fire as thousands protest at Gaza border


----------



## Sixties Fan

The army said it had prevented multiple attempts to break through the border fence as well as attempts to activate bombs against the troops under the cover of smoke.

The Hamas-run Gaza health ministry said on Friday afternoon that two men were killed and 250 people were injured, five of them in serious condition. One of the dead men was identified as Ussama Khamis Qadih, 38. The figures could not be independently confirmed.

(full article online)

Two Gazans reported killed, 250 injured as thousands march on border


----------



## Sixties Fan

LIVE UPDATES: Black skies over Gaza


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Israel did exactly as I fought it needed to do with the smoke.  Used big fans]
> 
> Palestinian holds tyres at the Israel-Gaza border during a protest demanding the right to return to their homeland, east of Gaza City April 6, 2018 / MOHAMMED SALEM/ REUTERS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian media reported that IDF forces are using giant fans to dispense the smoke while the IDF Spokesperson declared the border fence a closed military zone and warned the IDF would not allow it to be breached.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Into the black smoke: Inside the 'Great March of Return'
> 
> 
> [ And in the coming days and weeks, the Gaza People will find out what their leaders brilliant idea of burning tires has brought to their environment ]



Burning tires serves absolutely no purpose.

An activity serving no purpose defines the debilitating disease known as "_Pal'istanian Mentality_"


----------



## Sixties Fan

Report: Shin Bet asks Egyptian Intel to pass message to Hamas


----------



## Mindful

Hollie said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Israel did exactly as I fought it needed to do with the smoke.  Used big fans]
> 
> Palestinian holds tyres at the Israel-Gaza border during a protest demanding the right to return to their homeland, east of Gaza City April 6, 2018 / MOHAMMED SALEM/ REUTERS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian media reported that IDF forces are using giant fans to dispense the smoke while the IDF Spokesperson declared the border fence a closed military zone and warned the IDF would not allow it to be breached.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Into the black smoke: Inside the 'Great March of Return'
> 
> 
> [ And in the coming days and weeks, the Gaza People will find out what their leaders brilliant idea of burning tires has brought to their environment ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Burning tires serves absolutely no purpose.
> 
> An activity serving no purpose defines the debilitating disease known as "_Pal'istanian Mentality_"
Click to expand...


Think of all the Palestinian and Israeli children that are forced to breath this toxic smoke from Hamas' terror riot.

Hamas is burning 10,000 tires and using human shields to cover terror attacks on Israel's border.

Where are the international environmental groups? Where is the UN?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mindful said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Israel did exactly as I fought it needed to do with the smoke.  Used big fans]
> 
> Palestinian holds tyres at the Israel-Gaza border during a protest demanding the right to return to their homeland, east of Gaza City April 6, 2018 / MOHAMMED SALEM/ REUTERS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian media reported that IDF forces are using giant fans to dispense the smoke while the IDF Spokesperson declared the border fence a closed military zone and warned the IDF would not allow it to be breached.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Into the black smoke: Inside the 'Great March of Return'
> 
> 
> [ And in the coming days and weeks, the Gaza People will find out what their leaders brilliant idea of burning tires has brought to their environment ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Burning tires serves absolutely no purpose.
> 
> An activity serving no purpose defines the debilitating disease known as "_Pal'istanian Mentality_"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Think of all the Palestinian and Israeli children that are forced to breath this toxic smoke from Hamas' terror riot.
> 
> Hamas is burning 10,000 tires and using human shields to cover terror attacks on Israel's border.
> 
> Where are the international environmental groups? Where is the UN?
Click to expand...

Israel is not breathing that smoke as expected because of the big fans posted on the border to have the smoke go the other way.

In the next weeks and months the people of Gaza will wonder if it was a good idea, depending on how much damage to their environment, and their health,  it will have caused.

The UN and all others are on the Palestinian side.  They do not care.


----------



## Mindful

Sixties Fan said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Israel did exactly as I fought it needed to do with the smoke.  Used big fans]
> 
> Palestinian holds tyres at the Israel-Gaza border during a protest demanding the right to return to their homeland, east of Gaza City April 6, 2018 / MOHAMMED SALEM/ REUTERS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian media reported that IDF forces are using giant fans to dispense the smoke while the IDF Spokesperson declared the border fence a closed military zone and warned the IDF would not allow it to be breached.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Into the black smoke: Inside the 'Great March of Return'
> 
> 
> [ And in the coming days and weeks, the Gaza People will find out what their leaders brilliant idea of burning tires has brought to their environment ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Burning tires serves absolutely no purpose.
> 
> An activity serving no purpose defines the debilitating disease known as "_Pal'istanian Mentality_"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Think of all the Palestinian and Israeli children that are forced to breath this toxic smoke from Hamas' terror riot.
> 
> Hamas is burning 10,000 tires and using human shields to cover terror attacks on Israel's border.
> 
> Where are the international environmental groups? Where is the UN?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not breathing that smoke as expected because of the big fans posted on the border to have the smoke go the other way.
> 
> In the next weeks and months the people of Gaza will wonder if it was a good idea, depending on how much damage to their environment, and their health,  it will have caused.
> 
> The UN and all others are on the Palestinian side.  They do not care.
Click to expand...


One would think the environmental groups would have something to say. 

But of course, they can blame Israel.


----------



## Moonglow

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'


I thought we had passed over the passover?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mindful said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Israel did exactly as I fought it needed to do with the smoke.  Used big fans]
> 
> Palestinian holds tyres at the Israel-Gaza border during a protest demanding the right to return to their homeland, east of Gaza City April 6, 2018 / MOHAMMED SALEM/ REUTERS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian media reported that IDF forces are using giant fans to dispense the smoke while the IDF Spokesperson declared the border fence a closed military zone and warned the IDF would not allow it to be breached.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Into the black smoke: Inside the 'Great March of Return'
> 
> 
> [ And in the coming days and weeks, the Gaza People will find out what their leaders brilliant idea of burning tires has brought to their environment ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Burning tires serves absolutely no purpose.
> 
> An activity serving no purpose defines the debilitating disease known as "_Pal'istanian Mentality_"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Think of all the Palestinian and Israeli children that are forced to breath this toxic smoke from Hamas' terror riot.
> 
> Hamas is burning 10,000 tires and using human shields to cover terror attacks on Israel's border.
> 
> Where are the international environmental groups? Where is the UN?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not breathing that smoke as expected because of the big fans posted on the border to have the smoke go the other way.
> 
> In the next weeks and months the people of Gaza will wonder if it was a good idea, depending on how much damage to their environment, and their health,  it will have caused.
> 
> The UN and all others are on the Palestinian side.  They do not care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One would think the environmental groups would have something to say.
> 
> But of course, they can blame Israel.
Click to expand...

All those groups are doing is praying that Hamas can breach the fence, invade Israel and "reclaim their land".

Friday, is now called "Lets attack the only Jewish state in the world, because it is Jews living with non Jews, and the Jews are not Dhimmis, and Dhimmis are not allowed sovereignty. "


----------



## Mindful

Moonglow said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'
> 
> 
> 
> I thought we had passed over the passover?
Click to expand...


Tell them that.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mindful said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'
> 
> 
> 
> I thought we had passed over the passover?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell them that.
Click to expand...

Passover is not over until tomorrow. 

And this has nothing to do with Passover, it has to do with them celebrating the killing of their own a few years ago last Friday and wanting this, until May 14th, to bring some results in breaching into Israel since Israel has done away with their tunnels.

This is the war Hamas had promised for 2018.


----------



## Hossfly

Mindful said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Israel did exactly as I fought it needed to do with the smoke.  Used big fans]
> 
> Palestinian holds tyres at the Israel-Gaza border during a protest demanding the right to return to their homeland, east of Gaza City April 6, 2018 / MOHAMMED SALEM/ REUTERS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian media reported that IDF forces are using giant fans to dispense the smoke while the IDF Spokesperson declared the border fence a closed military zone and warned the IDF would not allow it to be breached.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Into the black smoke: Inside the 'Great March of Return'
> 
> 
> [ And in the coming days and weeks, the Gaza People will find out what their leaders brilliant idea of burning tires has brought to their environment ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Burning tires serves absolutely no purpose.
> 
> An activity serving no purpose defines the debilitating disease known as "_Pal'istanian Mentality_"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Think of all the Palestinian and Israeli children that are forced to breath this toxic smoke from Hamas' terror riot.
> 
> Hamas is burning 10,000 tires and using human shields to cover terror attacks on Israel's border.
> 
> Where are the international environmental groups? Where is the UN?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not breathing that smoke as expected because of the big fans posted on the border to have the smoke go the other way.
> 
> In the next weeks and months the people of Gaza will wonder if it was a good idea, depending on how much damage to their environment, and their health,  it will have caused.
> 
> The UN and all others are on the Palestinian side.  They do not care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One would think the environmental groups would have something to say.
> 
> But of course, they can blame Israel.
Click to expand...


Well, it's Israel's fault. They shouldn't be blowing toxic smoke and fumes into Gaza. WWJD?


----------



## Roudy

Hossfly said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Israel did exactly as I fought it needed to do with the smoke.  Used big fans]
> 
> Palestinian holds tyres at the Israel-Gaza border during a protest demanding the right to return to their homeland, east of Gaza City April 6, 2018 / MOHAMMED SALEM/ REUTERS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian media reported that IDF forces are using giant fans to dispense the smoke while the IDF Spokesperson declared the border fence a closed military zone and warned the IDF would not allow it to be breached.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Into the black smoke: Inside the 'Great March of Return'
> 
> 
> [ And in the coming days and weeks, the Gaza People will find out what their leaders brilliant idea of burning tires has brought to their environment ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Burning tires serves absolutely no purpose.
> 
> An activity serving no purpose defines the debilitating disease known as "_Pal'istanian Mentality_"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Think of all the Palestinian and Israeli children that are forced to breath this toxic smoke from Hamas' terror riot.
> 
> Hamas is burning 10,000 tires and using human shields to cover terror attacks on Israel's border.
> 
> Where are the international environmental groups? Where is the UN?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not breathing that smoke as expected because of the big fans posted on the border to have the smoke go the other way.
> 
> In the next weeks and months the people of Gaza will wonder if it was a good idea, depending on how much damage to their environment, and their health,  it will have caused.
> 
> The UN and all others are on the Palestinian side.  They do not care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One would think the environmental groups would have something to say.
> 
> But of course, they can blame Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, it's Israel's fault. They shouldn't be blowing toxic smoke and fumes into Gaza. WWJD?
Click to expand...

Looks like the Hamas animals think they can defeat the Israelis by blowing tire smoke out of their asses.


----------



## Mindful

Sixties Fan said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'
> 
> 
> 
> I thought we had passed over the passover?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell them that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Passover is not over until tomorrow.
> 
> And this has nothing to do with Passover, it has to do with them celebrating the killing of their own a few years ago last Friday and wanting this, until May 14th, to bring some results in breaching into Israel since Israel has done away with their tunnels.
> 
> This is the war Hamas had promised for 2018.
Click to expand...


They seem to pick Jewish festivals to indulge their activities.

I wonder who is orchestrating this  latest spectacle.


----------



## Mindful

Hossfly said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Israel did exactly as I fought it needed to do with the smoke.  Used big fans]
> 
> Palestinian holds tyres at the Israel-Gaza border during a protest demanding the right to return to their homeland, east of Gaza City April 6, 2018 / MOHAMMED SALEM/ REUTERS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian media reported that IDF forces are using giant fans to dispense the smoke while the IDF Spokesperson declared the border fence a closed military zone and warned the IDF would not allow it to be breached.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Into the black smoke: Inside the 'Great March of Return'
> 
> 
> [ And in the coming days and weeks, the Gaza People will find out what their leaders brilliant idea of burning tires has brought to their environment ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Burning tires serves absolutely no purpose.
> 
> An activity serving no purpose defines the debilitating disease known as "_Pal'istanian Mentality_"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Think of all the Palestinian and Israeli children that are forced to breath this toxic smoke from Hamas' terror riot.
> 
> Hamas is burning 10,000 tires and using human shields to cover terror attacks on Israel's border.
> 
> Where are the international environmental groups? Where is the UN?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not breathing that smoke as expected because of the big fans posted on the border to have the smoke go the other way.
> 
> In the next weeks and months the people of Gaza will wonder if it was a good idea, depending on how much damage to their environment, and their health,  it will have caused.
> 
> The UN and all others are on the Palestinian side.  They do not care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One would think the environmental groups would have something to say.
> 
> But of course, they can blame Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, it's Israel's fault. They shouldn't be blowing toxic smoke and fumes into Gaza. WWJD?
Click to expand...



Some idiot will twist it that way of course.

I heard the Israelis were behind  the Russian/UK poisoning incident.


----------



## Roudy

Mindful said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'
> 
> 
> 
> I thought we had passed over the passover?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell them that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Passover is not over until tomorrow.
> 
> And this has nothing to do with Passover, it has to do with them celebrating the killing of their own a few years ago last Friday and wanting this, until May 14th, to bring some results in breaching into Israel since Israel has done away with their tunnels.
> 
> This is the war Hamas had promised for 2018.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They seem to pick Jewish festivals to indulge their activities.
> 
> I wonder who is orchestrating this  latest spectacle.
Click to expand...

It's a Muslim thing, having to do with the barbarism and intolerance that Islam teaches. They already attacked Israel once before on Yom Kippur, the holiest day in the Jewish calendar, and failed.  They constantly blow up churches with filled with Christians on Christmas, Easter, or New Year's holidays.  And Sunnis blow up Shiites on their religious holidays and vice versa.  We've seen the savagery over and over.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ How Peaceful....just as Ghandi would have done ]

6 Gazans said killed as IDF says it thwarts multiple attempts to breach border


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Again, it is about a peaceful protest ]

As 6 Gazans killed in violence at fence, Yahya Sinwar tells protesters Strip is ready to explode in Israel's face, claims the 'conspiracy of besieging Gaza has failed'

He said the world should “wait for our great move, when we breach the borders and pray at Al-Aqsa,” referring to the major Muslim shrine in Jerusalem.

Arriving at one of the demonstration sites, Sinwar received a hero’s welcome. He was surrounded by hundreds of supporters who chanted, “We are going to Jerusalem, millions of martyrs.”

(full article online)

Gaza Hamas leader vows to ‘breach the borders and pray at Al-Aqsa’


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Again, it is about a peaceful protest ]
> 
> As 6 Gazans killed in violence at fence, Yahya Sinwar tells protesters Strip is ready to explode in Israel's face, claims the 'conspiracy of besieging Gaza has failed'
> 
> He said the world should “wait for our great move, when we breach the borders and pray at Al-Aqsa,” referring to the major Muslim shrine in Jerusalem.
> 
> Arriving at one of the demonstration sites, Sinwar received a hero’s welcome. He was surrounded by hundreds of supporters who chanted, “We are going to Jerusalem, millions of martyrs.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gaza Hamas leader vows to ‘breach the borders and pray at Al-Aqsa’



Let them pray with the Israeli Military present. They initiate violence it will stop immediately and they will finally meet with 72 Virgins


----------



## Sixties Fan

20:24 Seventh Palestinian killed identified as 17-year-old

The seventh Palestinian killed during Friday's protests has been identified as 17-year-old Alaa al-Din al-Zamili, according to Ashraf al-Qidra.

He was killed near the Rafah border crossing.
----
20:06 Death toll rises to 7 in Gaza protests

Gaza Health Ministry spokesman Ashraf al-Qidra announced Friday evening that 6 Palestinians had been killed in the day's protests.

The Izzadin Kassem Brigades confirmed that Majdi Shabat, who was killed earlier in the day, was one of their members.
---------------

IDF infographic shows locations of protests relative to Israeli communities 







(full article online)

LIVE: At least 6 dead, over 900 wounded in Gaza protests


----------



## Sixties Fan

As night falls after second 'March of Return,' with death toll at 7, Israel claims Gaza's rulers cynically sent kids out ahead; PA condemns killing of 'peaceful' protesters

The IDF released video footage of Gazans attempting to breach or target the fence under cover of huge plumes of black smoke caused by the burning of tires close to the border, and Israeli television showed footage of what appeared to be teenage Gazans rolling tires close to the border fence.

“What we’re saying is violent disturbances under cover of which Hamas is trying to carry out acts of terrorism,” said Maj-Gen. Eyal Zamir, the head of the IDF’s Southern Command, terming the tactic “manipulation by Hamas.”

“Hamas sent children out ahead [toward the fence], cynically using them,” the IDF’s spokesman, Ronen Manelis, said on Friday night. Manelis specified that eight explosive devices and numerous petrol bombs were thrown, and that the IDF faced several attempts “to cut through the fence.”


(full article online)

IDF says it thwarted Hamas, prevented ‘victory picture’ of breached border fence


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ They try and try and try....]

US blocks Arab-led UN call for independent probe of Gaza protests


----------



## Sixties Fan

In Friday Sermon at Gaza “Return March” Camp, Imam Chants Antisemitic Slogans, Adds: We Have Come Here to Execute the Decision of Allah and the Resolution of the U.N.


----------



## Hollie

We’re told so often “but, but, but, but, but, it’s about land, not religion”


----------



## Sixties Fan

The EU especially once again found itself on the wrong side of history. EU’s Foreign Policy chief Federica Mogherini summarized the endemic international hypocrisy against Israel with the Orwellian words, _“Freedom of expression and freedom of assembly are fundamental rights that must be respected.”_

Threatening Israel’s internationally recognized border and attacking Israeli soldiers with machine guns and Molotov cocktails hardly qualifies as “freedom of expression.” The only “freedom of assembly” that Gaza’s terrorist-regime permits is violent incitement against Israel and Jews. By contrast, the EU and most of the world ignore the Kurdish people’s freedom of expression and national freedom as well as countless other oppressed nations worldwide.

(full article online)

Lock, Stock and Blame Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Hamas-run Gaza health ministry has said 9 Palestinians were killed and 491 injured — including some 30 seriously — in the second “March of Return” held in the Strip on Friday.

The number of casualties is lower than those in the first march last Friday, and is indicative of the lower number of participants who took part, with some 20,000 Gazans attending, compared to over 30,000 a week ago. There were far fewer families, and a far greater focus on young tire-burning enthusiasts.

So one could argue that general motivation in Gaza for the planned weekly marches is waning, and that in a few weeks it will likely dwindle down significantly.

However, from the perspective of Hamas, it must be acknowledged that the terror group has recorded a significant achievement in the field of internal Palestinian politics.

Firstly, it should be noted that Hamas’s motivation at the moment appears not to be to provoke an all-out war with Israel. Had it sought an excuse for such action, the death tolls in the two protests could have provided more than enough justification from Hamas’s perspective to start firing rockets into Israel.

However, Hamas has so far refrained from doing so, and has stuck to encouraging the Friday protests — which the group did not initiate, but has enthusiastically adopted.

For the terror group, the protests are an ideal way to allow Gazans to let off steam and express their frustration and anger at their dire situation, while focusing the people’s fury at the border, Israel, the “occupation” — anything but Gaza’s Hamas rulers themselves.

At the same time, the protests have Hamas dominating the Palestinian political and media agenda, taking the lead in national discourse with no real competition from the Palestinian Authority’s Fatah. It is abundantly clear to all which is the dominant movement in Palestinian politics today.

(full article online)

For Hamas, Gaza marches have scored some undeniable wins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Both Saudi Arabia and Egypt have called on militant organization Hamas to end the annual weekly protests it is holding for the "Great March of Return," according to an Egyptian source. 

An Egyptian Foreign Ministry official was anonymously quoted as saying that, in exchange for halting the protests, Egypt would ensure that the Rafah border crossing, which Egypt controls, would be regularly opened. The source said that the agreement had come under the direction of the Saudis.

(full article online)

Report: Egypt, Saudi Arabia urge Hamas to end 'Great March of Return' protests


----------



## Sixties Fan

The comments from the Hamas leader who was considered a “hardliner” with a long history of terrorist involvement is a bit of a climb down from the days when Hamas carried out massive terror attacks and had many supporters in the West Bank. Where are the protests in the West Bank in solidarity with Gaza? 

The lack of protest among Arabs in Israel, among Palestinians in Jerusalem or the West Bank, or among Palestinians and their supporters in the diaspora, shows that the protest has not really achieved its aims so far. Is this just apathy? Is it because Israel has succeeded in dividing the Palestinians, or because the long time of separate Hamas rule in Gaza has had that affect? 

Different Palestinians I spoke to over the last week had different answers, but the general one seems to not just be apathy but a feeling that this protest will not succeed, and a general lack of connection between what happens in Gaza and elsewhere.

The last major popular campaigns among Palestinians to challenge Israel have mostly run the same course. The “metal detector” protests, which some predicted would be a “third intifada” didn’t create a mass movement, although Israel did remove the metal detectors outside the Temple Mount in July 2017 shortly after installing them. The protests opposing US President Donald Trump’s decision to move the US embassy to Jerusalem were also supposed to ignite a new intifada. It didn’t. Over the years the same has been said again and again, “this could be the spark of the third intifada.”

There is a feeling that the world no longer notices Palestinians deaths in Gaza. When six Arabs were killed in protests in Israel in 1976 the event became “land day”, commemorated annually since. Twelve Arab citizens of Israel were killed in 2000 during the outbreak of the Second Intifada and the killings led to the Or Commission of Inquiry. These protests in Gaza have resulted in around thirty deaths so far and it’s unclear if they will be as significant. So far they have not been sustained during the weekdays, only appearing on Friday, and already seeing less numbers of participants.

Israel appears to have checked Hamas at every move it makes. It made rockets, so Israel created the Iron Dome. It built tunnels, so Israel found a way to stop them. It trained “naval commandos” and Israel stopped them. It sent tens of thousands of people to the border, and they didn’t get through.

(full article online)

Waiting for Godot next to Gaza: 'Tire Protest' misses the mark


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Both Saudi Arabia and Egypt have called on militant organization Hamas to end the annual weekly protests it is holding for the "Great March of Return," according to an Egyptian source.
> 
> An Egyptian Foreign Ministry official was anonymously quoted as saying that, in exchange for halting the protests, Egypt would ensure that the Rafah border crossing, which Egypt controls, would be regularly opened. The source said that the agreement had come under the direction of the Saudis.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Report: Egypt, Saudi Arabia urge Hamas to end 'Great March of Return' protests




Good for them.


----------



## Sixties Fan

'Terrorists also disguise themselves as journalists'


----------



## Sixties Fan

Former Israel Defense Forces spokesman Peter Lerner published on his Twitter account documentation of Palestinian Arab demonstrations near the Gaza Strip fence yesterday, including the flying of a Palestinian flag with a swastika on it

"Hamas is a terrorist organization that supports genocide," Lerner wrote.

Above the video, Lerner wrote: "The answer, my friends, is waving in the wind."

(full article and video online)

Watch: Palestinian flag flies with swastika


----------



## Sixties Fan

These photos show what happened yesterday on the #Gaza-Israel border: #Hamas terrorists in plain clothes cut the fence and try to infiltrate Israel. Is there a single country in the world that would allow hundreds of terrorists to storm its territory? No? Didn't think so.

(full article online)

WATCH NOW: Giant Fans, Water Cannons, Dead Terrorists as IDF Protects Border


----------



## rylah




----------



## Sixties Fan

Liberman on journalist’s death: Fly drone above soldiers, you endanger your life


----------



## Tilly

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Israel did exactly as I fought it needed to do with the smoke.  Used big fans]
> 
> Palestinian holds tyres at the Israel-Gaza border during a protest demanding the right to return to their homeland, east of Gaza City April 6, 2018 / MOHAMMED SALEM/ REUTERS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian media reported that IDF forces are using giant fans to dispense the smoke while the IDF Spokesperson declared the border fence a closed military zone and warned the IDF would not allow it to be breached.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Into the black smoke: Inside the 'Great March of Return'
> 
> 
> [ And in the coming days and weeks, the Gaza People will find out what their leaders brilliant idea of burning tires has brought to their environment ]






^^^^^^incompetent Palestinian morons^^^^^^
So funny.


----------



## Sixties Fan

I'm not saying that any journalists deserve to be shot; we don't know the circumstances behind any shooting. We do know with a pretty high degree of certainty that Gazans have been shot by other Gazans purely to score anti-Israel propaganda points. So anyone who is reporting on any death at the Gaza border and blaming it purely on Israel without the proper caveats is not engaging in journalism but in pushing more anti-Israel propaganda.





(full article online)

Hamas is the party that weaponizes journalists (cartoon) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

As Hamas’s ability to kill Israelis diminished over the past decade, it used the tragic deaths of Palestinians during confrontations with the IDF as a tool in its propaganda war against Israel, but even this strategy has lost its power to incite the Arab street and force the hands of leaders in the Middle East to attack Israel. As the Gaza riots have unfolded, Egypt has told Hamas to bring them to an end and a Saudi Arabian has acknowledged what Hamas keeps denying – the Israelis have a right to their own land.

A number of factors were necessary to degrade Hamas’ status as a player in the Middle East — which was rooted almost entirely in its ability and willingness to kill and terrorize Jews.

First, the construction of the security barrier between Israel and population centers in the West Bank made it harder for terrorists to murder Israelis in suicide bombings. Second, Israel’s missile defense system assured Israelis that for the most part they will be safe from Hamas rocket attacks, as frightening as they are. Third, Israel was aggressive in confronting Hamas tunnel-digging into Israel. As a result of these strategies — and intense intelligence gathering — Hamas simply can’t get close enough to Israeli civilians to kill them.

All this has forced Hamas to go for broke with something akin to a people’s march on Israel. Salting crowds of civilians with armed Hamas operatives who use these civilians as cover as they attempt to pierce Israel’s defensive barrier is a war crime that has gone unnoticed by the international media, which has fixated on the Palestinian deaths.

But even with the poor coverage, the average person can see the riots for what they are — an attempted invasion. The riots will continue and the death toll will rise, but eventually, Hamas will run out of young men to put in harm’s way and the inhabitants of Gaza will get sick of being used as human shields for failed attacks on Israel and stop showing up at the fence.

(full article online)

Don’t be fooled: Hamas is losing


----------



## Sixties Fan

Terrorists operating from the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip opened fire on Israeli forces along the border with Gaza Sunday afternoon, prompting the IDF to launch an artillery barrage on terrorist positions in the Strip.

(full article online)

IDF launches artillery barrage on Gaza terrorists


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Actions......and consequences ]

IDF Bans Rubber Tires Deliveries to Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mahmoud Abbas’ senior advisor has accused Hamas of intentionally sending Palestinians in Gaza to “go and die,” for the sole purpose that Hamas will have stories of dead Palestinians to tell the media.



Mahmoud Al-Habbash, Abbas’ Advisor on Islamic Affairs and Supreme Sharia Judge, delivered a sermon on Friday from the PA headquarters in Ramallah, in the presence of Mahmoud Abbas. He accused Hamas of deliberately encouraging civilians to endanger themselves: “You Palestinians, our people, go and die so that we’ll go to the TV and media with strong declarations.”

Al-Habbash claimed that the Palestinian population are not being fooled by Hamas anymore, and “sides with the PLO.”

(full article online)

Hamas is sending civilians in Gaza to die for media coverage, says Abbas’ advisor  - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

*Noteworthy Dates Ahead*

A few more notable dates lie ahead.  On April 15, 2018, an Arab summit meets in Saudi Arabia, and April 17 has been proclaimed “Palestinian Prisoner Day.” These are in addition to Fridays, which have been proclaimed as “Days of Rage” on a regular basis.

It is reasonable to assume that the organizers of the “Return” campaign will try to stir things up on the border between Gaza and Israel on these particular days.

The height of the campaign is supposed to be on May 14 and 15, the scheduled dates of the transfer of the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem and Nakba Day.

On May 15, the month-long fast of Ramadan, which is sacred to the Muslims, is also due to begin. The activities of the “return” campaign may also spill over into this month, when extremist organizations tend to carry out terror attacks, even though Hamas has announced that the campaign is supposed to finish on Nakba Day.

For Hamas, this is a new intifada that is similar to the first intifada in 1987 with regard to popular participation.

It is clear to the Palestinians that this intifada, known as “marches of return,” will not lead to the return of the refugees to the territory of the State of Israel. However, through it, Hamas is trying to stir up the frustration and fury of the residents of Gaza toward Israel caused by the severe humanitarian crisis.

In light of the current lack of response and practical cooperation from West Bank residents, it is hoped in Gaza that the campaign will eventually provoke the international community to put pressure on Israel to remove the embargo from Gaza and compel the world to take care of the residents of Gaza after 11 tough years of sanctions.

Alternatively, as Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar said at the weekend, “if there is an explosion in the Gaza Strip, that explosion will be in Israel’s face.”


(full article online)

The Hamas Gimmick that Failed


----------



## Sixties Fan

Although the results showed minimal damage on Israel’s side of the border, Rabbi Yonatan Neril, the founder and executive director of  Israeli based environmental group the Interfaith Center for Sustainable Development saw the effects of the burning tires as harmful towards Gazans, the animals and the immediate surroundings of the protests themselves. 

"Tires are one of the most toxic things to burn, and their smoke contains hazardous air pollutants like dioxins and metals including arsenic and mercury.” Neril told _The Jerusalem Post_.

“When tires go up in smoke, their pollutants don't just disappear. Gazans burning thousands of tires on the Gaza border releases these pollutants into the air, water and land. It presents a health risk to Gazans, nearby Israelis, the animals and birds that inhabit the ecosystem and those that eat the fruits and vegetables harvested from the agricultural fields near Gaza. While the Israeli Ministry of Environment stated that the winds didn't blow the smoke to threaten nearby Israeli communities, nature knows no boundaries. Unless we are able to manage human conflict, large numbers of people, animals, and birds will be impacted by the fighting in Gaza," said Neril.

Echoing the notion of managing human conflict, Yosef Abramowitz, named by CNN as one of the six leading Green Pioneers worldwide told the _Post_: “Teaching hate is the real poison, but burning tires is an environmentally toxic act that all green activists, regardless of politics, should condemn.”

(full article online)

The environmental effects of Friday’s tire protest


----------



## Sixties Fan

Intelli Times suggested that Murtaja managed to purchase and smuggle into Gaza drones carrying high quality cameras capable of gathering high-resolution, 360-degree intelligence on the activities of IDF forces on the ground.

Clearly a Hamas sympathizer, if not an outright member, it is difficult to imagine the late video journalist being able to arrange this level of a smuggling operation of such expensive equipment without the Hamas knowledge, if not support.

It should be noted that in the past, Hezbollah utilized fake press personnel to gather information about the IDF along Israel’s northern border.

(full article online)

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/eye...-camera-drones-above-idf-soldiers/2018/04/08/


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel has to scramble for excuses. They can't use the old rocket canard on this one.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel has to scramble for excuses. They can't use the old rocket canard on this one.


Uhmmmm

You said absolutely nothing.

Nice new tactic


----------



## Sixties Fan

I could not help but think of a little boy I saw in 2005. Israel had just executed the Disengagement Plan, ripping thousands of Jews from their homes in the Gaza strip, dismantling 21 Israeli communities, handing to control of the Palestinian Authority. 





This tiny child was taken to one of the demonstrations celebrating Israeli withdrawal. Too small to really understand what was going on, someone had given him a cardboard Kalashnikov to hold, like a real, grown-up member of Hamas. He looked so confused in the photo, as if he was searching for guidance from a grown up. But what guidance was he getting?

13 years have passed. That boy is old enough to be any of the Gazans killed in the riots. Interestingly 15 out of the 19 killed in the riots are known terrorists. How do we know? Not because of some special Israeli military intelligence gathering. We know because the PA announced with pride exactly who each individual was at which organization they were affiliated with.

(full article online)

Free Gaza (Forest Rain) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Explosives discovered after terrorists flee


----------



## Sixties Fan

The 'supreme national authority of the return march' and the breaking of the siege in Gaza' announced that another 'popular day of rage' will be held this Friday which will be marked by the burning of the Israeli flag and the raising of Palestinian flags.

The statement further stated that the processions of the 'return' will continue for many months, and that the confrontation with the "occupation" will continue and escalate until the "Palestinian people" realize its goals.

(full article online)

What are the rioters planning this Friday?


----------



## Sixties Fan

A number of Palestinians criticized Hamas for publicizing the deaths of its members, including holding military funerals and rallies. The main objection can be summarized as follows: by revealing that so many of the deaths were actually terrorists, Hamas undermines the PR illusion that this was a “peaceful protest.”

Next time you hear about Palestinians throwing “stones,” keep in mind that in at least some cases, this is what they are really talking about:
















Just outside Gaza, JPost’s Seth Frantzman caught up with Richard Kemp, former commander, British forces, Afghanistan. Kemp took the media to task pointing out that they don’t necessarily fully understand events even if they’re physically close up. Specifically, Kemp clarified that this is not a “peaceful demonstration” as is often portrayed by the media but rather:

…a deliberate and specific intent by a major terrorist organization, recognized around the world as terrorists, to penetrate the border of the State of Israel.


(full article online

The Gaza Clashes: What's Really Happening | HonestReporting


----------



## Sixties Fan

The events at Israel’s border with Gaza reflect a deep division between some of the NGO organizers of the Return March, led by Ahmed Abu Artima, and Hamas. Abu Artima, described by the British Guardian as a 34-year-old “activist and journalist,” opposed Hamas’ plan to hold a “Friday of Tires” on April 6, 2018. His followers on the March’s Facebook page suggested throwing flowers instead of burning tires.


Abu Artima, who works with European NGOs (non-government organizations), explained that the purpose of the gathering on the border was to prepare for the big march on Nakba Day in May and not to break through the fence at this point. Using force, he explained, would give legitimacy to the “occupation” to apply even greater force, while it would have no violent response to a mass march of refugees, including young people, the elderly, and babies. The main condition for the march would be that all of the marchers would refrain from any violence at all, including throwing stones, tires, Molotov cocktails, or the like.

(full article online)

The Gaza “Return March” Splits Hamas and Organizers


----------



## Sixties Fan

Latest Blood Libel: Israel Used White Phosphorus or Chemical Weapons on Rioters


----------



## Sixties Fan

In any case, you may have heard that a senior adviser to Mahmoud Abbas had some very strong words of condemnation for the violent show Hamas is putting on, accusing the terror group of “deliberately sending Gazan civilians to their deaths to grab good headlines.”

But Linda Sarsour doesn’t quite see it this way. In her most recent post, she passionately decries “the inhumanity in the continued assault, dehumanization and murder of Palestinians who have every right to mobilize for dignity on their own land;” she also calls on her followers to “say a prayer for these souls” – meaning those who were killed while trying to storm the border. And she adds: “More important than that - speak truth to power and do not let anyone dictate what your eyes clearly see for themselves.” 

Okay then, my eyes clearly see for themselves that Linda Sarsour wants her followers to “say a prayer” for more than a dozen terrorists.

(full article online)

Linda Sarsour’s blood and soil (Petra Marquardt-Bigman) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

No, it isn’t Kent State on the Mediterranean* | Abu Yehuda


----------



## Sixties Fan

On Tuesday, however, Israeli security officials pushed back on the claim, telling _Walla! News_that Murtaja was in fact a long-time member of the Hamas terror group. The sources told _Walla! _Murtaja held the rank of Neqqib, or Captain, in Hamas.

“For years he served as an officer with the rank of Neqqib in Hamas’ security forces in the Gaza Strip,” the sources said.

“He was an activist who was involved with activities as part of [Hamas’] security apparatus on a daily basis, and provided a great deal of aid for their activities.”

In 2015, Murtaja sought to bring a drone into the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip, with the goal of gathering information for the terror organization. Murtaja maintained ties with Hamas over the years, and large numbers of Hamas members participated in his funeral on Saturday.

(full article online)

Report: 'Journalist' killed on Gaza border - a senior Hamas terrorist


----------



## Sixties Fan

“The world must know about the harm Hamas does to the residents of Gaza and be neutral, instead of keeping quiet about Hamas’ conduct and pointing the finger at Israel alone,” one person from Saudi Arabia wrote.

“There is no doubt that the Hamas terror organization is blocking any option for peace and is working to spread hatred and violence,” another opined. “Israel has internationally recognized sovereignty.”

Some posts concentrated on the long-term damage caused by the tire-burning tactic. “Gazan children need clean air, not air that has been contaminated with the burning of tires of hatred,” a Jordanian citizen wrote. It was time, he added, to throw the leaders of Hamas “into the dustbin of history.”

(full article online)

Arabs on Social Media Slam Hamas Protests, Defend Israel


----------



## Shusha

I wonder what would happen if 30,000 Israelis gathered at the border with rocks, slingshots, firebombs, IEDs, assault rifles, and grenades demanding return to Gaza.  What if Netanyahu announced that it would take all of Gaza for Israel and kill anyone Arab who stood in his way?  Do you think that Arab Gazans would refrain from use of force?


----------



## Sixties Fan

WATCH: ‘We Will Tear Israelis’ Hearts Out,’ Threatens Gaza Riot Leader


----------



## Linkiloo

Sixties Fan said:


>



A study in being ineffectual.


----------



## Linkiloo

Shusha said:


> I wonder what would happen if 30,000 Israelis gathered at the border with rocks, slingshots, firebombs, IEDs, assault rifles, and grenades demanding return to Gaza.  What if Netanyahu announced that it would take all of Gaza for Israel and kill anyone Arab who stood in his way?  Do you think that Arab Gazans would refrain from use of force?


To add to that: do you think the UN would be calling for an enquiry? Do you think there'd be any outcry anywhere?


----------



## Sixties Fan

The verdict of history on Selma is clear. When those seeking the same rights granted to white American citizens answered racist violence with peaceful demonstrations, they illustrated the injustice they were seeking to overturn. Dr. King’s cause was just, and his methods were both peaceful and democratic.

The same cannot be said for Hamas’s Gaza show. Its cause is to overthrow Zionism. Dr. King denounced the intersectional myth that any Third World “colored” cause is inherently impartial. He supported both Israel’s right to exist and to defend itself. When confronted by someone who condemned Zionism, he answered: “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You’re talking anti-Semitism.” Nor would he have recognized an event staged by an armed terror group in which Molotov cocktails and rocks—and, in some instances, guns—would be used as “nonviolent.”

(full article online)

Gaza is nothing like Selma


----------



## Sixties Fan

Except IDF spokesperson Avichay Adraee’s Arabic tweet is an image of binoculars, not a sniper lens, which would have included a cross hair. Even the Khaled Diab tweet that White links to doesn’t claim that the image is of a sniper lens.








As the years passed the refugees’ claims were set aside as unresolvable and David Ben-Gurion, Israel’s first prime minister, expressed the hope that “the old would die and the young would forget”.

False, decontextualized or selectively edited quotes attributed to Israeli historical figures are often employed by anti-Israel activists and hate sites to “prove” that these Israelis harbored malevolent attitudes.

So when such a hate site actually disavows a quote, it’s crystal clear just how dubious that quote is. In 2013, Electronic Intifada published an entire article examining the veracity of the very Ben Gurion quote used by Helm:

This quotation has made it into several draft submissions to us at The Electronic Intifada over the years, with some making it to publication.

But more recently, we began removing it from drafts during the editing process. Despite looking hard, we have been unable to locate a primary source for the quotation. No one yet has one, to our knowledge.

If even Electronic Intifada won’t use the quote, it appears that Sarah Helm has been looking in even darker places to find her anti-Israel sources.

(full article online)

The Independent Publishing Lies in its Op-Eds | HonestReporting


----------



## Sixties Fan

Investigation Clears IDF Sniper; Arab Is Alive, was Organizing Riot


----------



## Roudy

Sixties Fan said:


> 'Terrorists also disguise themselves as journalists'


It's a big Pallywood part that is played often in many Pallywood plots. Right after terrorists disguised as ambulance drivers, doctors, Red Crescent workers, etc.


----------



## Sixties Fan

From Paris to Gaza, it's the same anti-Jewish evil


----------



## Sixties Fan

NGO Monitor: Dead Arab Photographer was Contractor for Norwegian NGO, Suspected Member of Hamas


----------



## Sixties Fan

Of course, if you think carefully about it, you realize that a body count cannot possibly tell you which side is the aggressor and which side is the victim. A lot more Germans died in World War II than Americans. That didn’t make Germany the victim—or deserving of any sympathy. But most people don’t think about that. This is what biased editors count on.

Don’t be fooled by claims that the media emphasizes the number of casualties simply because they’re reporting the most important fact of the story. The Reuters headline on March 30 did not have to be worded: “Israeli Forces Kill 16 Palestinians in Gaza Border Protests.” Such language clearly gives the impression that the Israelis killed them merely because they were “protesting.” The headline could just as easily (and more accurately) have said: “16 Palestinian Firebomb-Throwers Killed in Gaza.” Or “Israelis Shoot Back, Kill 16 Palestinian Attackers.”

The pro-Palestinian “body counters” of the international news media are greatly aided by the fact that Israel’s security forces are so good at saving lives.

Almost every day, somewhere in Israel, a Palestinian terrorist attempts to murder Jews. Almost every time, the police or army foils the attack. And in almost every such instance, the story is ignored by the international media. In effect, terrorists with bad aim get a free pass.

(full article online)

Invasion of the ‘body counters’


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Israelis who have their own version as to what happened the past two Fridays. Never mind that the Palestinians aim to kill them as well. ]

“But we are Jews. We are Jewish citizens not some Palestinians,” the activist continues. “Okay, really, no discrimination at all?”

The camerawoman then asks one of the soldiers, “Are your parents happy when you come back home after killing civilians? You have massacred 21 innocent civilians in the terror organization that you’re active in.”

When one of the soldiers questions her use of the word “terrorist,” the camerawoman responds: “Yes, terrorist. The educational system taught you to be drafted at the age of 18, without thinking about it, to a terror army and massacre innocent civilians in Gaza.”

Other than that short exchange, the IDF soldiers in the clip did not debate with the activists, beyond informing them they were in a closed military zone and must immediately leave the area.

(full article online)

Left-wing activists accost IDF soldiers near Gaza, call them ‘terrorists’


----------



## Sixties Fan

Golani fighter astonished, disappointed at righteous indignation over sniper video, salutes comrades defending border against Hamas attacks.

(full article online)

Open letter: Golani fighter writes to all of us


----------



## Sixties Fan

The explosion occurred during a routine military operation in northern Gaza, and was aimed at harming engineering equipment belonging to the IDF.

No one was injured, and no damage was caused.

An IDF spokesperson clarified that the explosives had been placed during one of the violent riots occurring over the past several days.

Responding to the explosion, the IDF fired tank shells at several Hamas targets.

(full article online)

Explosion near Gaza border


----------



## Sixties Fan

The spectacle of the Nazi swastika flying alongside Palestinian flags at violent demonstrations on the Israel-Gaza border over the last fortnight has been widely interpreted in Israel as one more example of the “genocidal message” that Hamas is sending to the Jewish state.

Significantly, a new briefing from the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) issued on Wednesday suggests that at the same time as expressing admiration for Nazi antisemitism, Hamas nonetheless remains committed to denying Nazi crimes against the Jews.

This stance can be traced back to the original Hamas Charter issued in 1988. That document depicted World War II as a Jewish plot in which “the Zionists…grossed huge profits from their trade of war materials.”

In the interim, Holocaust denial has become both a staple of the Islamist organization’s ideology and — more recently — a political weapon to wield against its growing adversaries in the Muslim world.

(full article online)

Hamas’s Chosen Weapon Against Muslim Moderates Is Holocaust Denial, New Report Shows


----------



## Sixties Fan

Amid Heightened Gaza Border Tensions, Hamas Reportedly Training Fighters to Kidnap IDF Soldiers


----------



## Andylusion

P F Tinmore said:


> Mainstream media only has a framework of violence to understand the Question of Palestine, which makes it ill-equipped to understand and explain one of the largest civil protests among Palestinians in recent history. That is why the media sounds like it is trying to shove a square into a circle as it fails to explicitly say Israel executed 18 Palestinians and injured 1400 others where no lethal threat was posed and while Palestinians were literally on their own lands in the buffer zone - 300-500 meters of agricultural lands Israel arbitrarily marked as a buffer zone- and not even at Israel's undeclared militarized border.
> 
> This is about Israel's settler anxiety and the inability to make Palestinians disappear- they have not forgotten, not assimilated into other countries, and struggle to return motivated by love and belonging. ~ Noura Erakat



That would be because there is no question.  Israel belongs to Israelis.  Murderous terrorist belong no where.

You can write this down, and post it on a calendar with my name by it.

Palestinians will disappear.  They will either disappear by choice, or they will disappear by death.   But they will disappear.


----------



## Sixties Fan

_Time_ magazine might want to take a second look at the name Palestinians have given to the recent demonstrations and clashes along the Gaza Strip's border with Israel. 

Organizers have dubbed the campaign the “March of Return.” So when _Time_, in an April 6 story, described it only as “a six-week protest _against the long-standing blockade_” on the Hamas-ruled territory, they missed the main point. As the “March of Return” moniker makes clear, the protests are primarily meant to promote the Palestinian demand for a “right of return” — the influx into Israel of thousands of Palestinian refugees from the 1948 war and their millions of descendants. 

The stated purpose of the campaign is no minor detail. The demand for “return” is widely understood as a call for the elimination of Israel by demographic means. “Implementing the ‘right of return’ means eradicating Israel,” explained Israeli author Amos Oz, a leader in the country's peace movement. Or as Palestinian activist Omar Barghouti has approvingly acknowledged, “If the refugees were to return, you would not have a two-state solution, you’d have a Palestine next to a Palestine.”

This — the “return” and the consequent “Palestine next to a Palestine” — is the primary goal of the March of Return. The Associated Press correctly reported at the start of the demonstrations that “the protest campaign is meant to spotlight Palestinian demands for a ‘right of return’ to what is now Israel.” And per Reuters, “The demonstrators are demanding that Palestinian refugees be allowed the right of return.”

(full article online)

CAMERA: Time Forgets "Return March" Is About "Return"


----------



## Sixties Fan

Andylusion said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mainstream media only has a framework of violence to understand the Question of Palestine, which makes it ill-equipped to understand and explain one of the largest civil protests among Palestinians in recent history. That is why the media sounds like it is trying to shove a square into a circle as it fails to explicitly say Israel executed 18 Palestinians and injured 1400 others where no lethal threat was posed and while Palestinians were literally on their own lands in the buffer zone - 300-500 meters of agricultural lands Israel arbitrarily marked as a buffer zone- and not even at Israel's undeclared militarized border.
> 
> This is about Israel's settler anxiety and the inability to make Palestinians disappear- they have not forgotten, not assimilated into other countries, and struggle to return motivated by love and belonging. ~ Noura Erakat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would be because there is no question.  Israel belongs to Israelis.  Murderous terrorist belong no where.
> 
> You can write this down, and post it on a calendar with my name by it.
> 
> Palestinians will disappear.  They will either disappear by choice, or they will disappear by death.   But they will disappear.
Click to expand...

Israel and the Jews do not want the Palestinians to disappear.

They just want to live in peace side by side, as so many Arabs Muslims and Christians already do, be it in Israel or in the territories.

Many Arab Palestinians are peaceful.  It is the destructive, poisonous Islamic teachings of demanding that Jews remain dhimmies to the Muslims which needs to go away.

It will take time.

The Arabs will lose, and will have to give up their attempts to destroy Israel.

The teachings and UNWRA have to go.

Only then, any possibility of peace can come up.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Activists from the Im Tirtzu movement held a counter demonstration across from the protest.

"Instead of standing with the State of Israel that provides them with equal rights and opportunity under law, these students opt to incite against Israel and the IDF, and to support terrorism," said Im Tirtzu’s policy director, Alon Schvartzer.

"The university must take this incitement seriously and immediately discipline those students responsible," continued Schvartzer.

Anti-Israel activists have held a number of demonstrations on the Mount Scopus campus over the years. In November 2012, a group of Arab students protested against Israel’s Operation Pillar of Defense against Hamas – but were forced to seek shelter after rockets were launched from Gaza towards Jerusalem

(full article online)

Students at Hebrew University call for new Intifada


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel Versus Hamas: The Case for Moral Clarity


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Israel Versus Hamas: The Case for Moral Clarity



Yes.  This.  

In the current round of moral fog, which is just a repeat of the same old moral fog, Gazans are confronted with a boundary which exists for the safety of both parties (the border) and are attempting to cross it (in this case literally, but the meaning is also figurative).  Gazans push up against the boundaries, ignore the boundaries, use violence across the boundaries.  And then get pissy when there are consequences.

Hey, here's an idea -- try respecting the boundaries.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel Versus Hamas: The Case for Moral Clarity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  This.
> 
> In the current round of moral fog, which is just a repeat of the same old moral fog, Gazans are confronted with a boundary which exists for the safety of both parties (the border) and are attempting to cross it (in this case literally, but the meaning is also figurative).  Gazans push up against the boundaries, ignore the boundaries, use violence across the boundaries.  And then get pissy when there are consequences.
> 
> Hey, here's an idea -- try respecting the boundaries.
Click to expand...

So, who crossed the boundary?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> So, who crossed the boundary?



In every case, both literal and figurative -- the Gazans.


----------



## Shusha

When your government says, "We are going to cross the border and rip your hearts out" you have crossed the boundary.

When you bring bombs and guns and firebombs and slingshots to a "peaceful protest" you have crossed the boundary.

When you put up swastikas you have crossed the boundary.

When you send a seven year old child to climb the border fence you have crossed the boundary.


Now, you are certainly correct to argue that Israel also "crossed the boundary" (the literal one) in responding to the violations.  But she did not, at any time, in the past two weeks do so without cause.


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel Versus Hamas: The Case for Moral Clarity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  This.
> 
> In the current round of moral fog, which is just a repeat of the same old moral fog, Gazans are confronted with a boundary which exists for the safety of both parties (the border) and are attempting to cross it (in this case literally, but the meaning is also figurative).  Gazans push up against the boundaries, ignore the boundaries, use violence across the boundaries.  And then get pissy when there are consequences.
> 
> Hey, here's an idea -- try respecting the boundaries.
Click to expand...


How do You make one learn to respect and see Your boundaries?


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> How do You make one learn to respect and see Your boundaries?



Fascinating question.  You know I'm a women's empowerment self-defense instructor, right?

The answer I would give to my students is that you _can't_.  You can't make anyone respect your boundaries.  What you can do is clearly establish your boundaries.  And you can, sometimes, avoid people who routinely violate your boundaries.  And you can defend your boundaries when you are violated.  

But there is no way to compel someone to respect your boundaries.


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do You make one learn to respect and see Your boundaries?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fascinating question.  You know I'm a women's empowerment self-defense instructor, right?
> 
> The answer I would give to my students is that you _can't_.  You can't make anyone respect your boundaries.  What you can do is clearly establish your boundaries.  And you can, sometimes, avoid people who routinely violate your boundaries.  And you can defend your boundaries when you are violated.
> 
> But there is no way to compel someone to respect your boundaries.
Click to expand...


Forgive me if it sounds cynical, self defense is a righteous act,
how does it apply to a kamikazee?

EDIT: on a 2nd thought it's an ugly sad question, I myself wouldn't want to answer, or take the decision.


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> Forgive me if it sounds cynical, self defense is a righteous act,
> how does it apply to a kamikazee?
> 
> EDIT: on a 2nd thought it's an ugly sad question, I myself wouldn't want to answer, or take the decision.



How does it apply to someone willing to sacrifice themselves in order to achieve the goal of taking you down?  Its a question I encounter often, as it is a common thread with abusers in personal, intimate relationships.  It is an ugly, sad question.

The answer is that you can only hope (and train) to survive.


----------



## Andylusion

Sixties Fan said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mainstream media only has a framework of violence to understand the Question of Palestine, which makes it ill-equipped to understand and explain one of the largest civil protests among Palestinians in recent history. That is why the media sounds like it is trying to shove a square into a circle as it fails to explicitly say Israel executed 18 Palestinians and injured 1400 others where no lethal threat was posed and while Palestinians were literally on their own lands in the buffer zone - 300-500 meters of agricultural lands Israel arbitrarily marked as a buffer zone- and not even at Israel's undeclared militarized border.
> 
> This is about Israel's settler anxiety and the inability to make Palestinians disappear- they have not forgotten, not assimilated into other countries, and struggle to return motivated by love and belonging. ~ Noura Erakat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would be because there is no question.  Israel belongs to Israelis.  Murderous terrorist belong no where.
> 
> You can write this down, and post it on a calendar with my name by it.
> 
> Palestinians will disappear.  They will either disappear by choice, or they will disappear by death.   But they will disappear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel and the Jews do not want the Palestinians to disappear.
> 
> They just want to live in peace side by side, as so many Arabs Muslims and Christians already do, be it in Israel or in the territories.
> 
> Many Arab Palestinians are peaceful.  It is the destructive, poisonous Islamic teachings of demanding that Jews remain dhimmies to the Muslims which needs to go away.
> 
> It will take time.
> 
> The Arabs will lose, and will have to give up their attempts to destroy Israel.
> 
> The teachings and UNWRA have to go.
> 
> Only then, any possibility of peace can come up.
Click to expand...


I used to think that way.  I used to think "hey they just want peace just like the Jews".  I originally had that view before about the year 2000.   That's when a Jewish man in a car, who accidentally turned off on the wrong exit on a highway, was dragged from his car, beaten, *tossed out the window of a police station*, to a massive crowd of "peaceful Palestinians, and then decapitated, and his body tied to ropes, given to peaceful Palestinian children, and dragged through the streets of the city.






Because he was shooting Palestinians?  Because he was military?  Because he was beating people?  No..... because he turned off the wrong exit.

That shattered my illusions, and made me question just how good and peaceful these Palestinians are.

Since then, more proof has been given that these people are anything but good, or peaceful.

Electing Hamas in 2006, proved to me, that is wasn't an isolated faction of violent people, but the wide spread opinion of at least the majority of voters.

And the last straw for me was the 'The Three Shalits' campaign in 2014, in which the Palestinians celebrated the kidnapping and murder of 3 Jewish kids.

Pro-kidnapping salute gains steam on Palestinian, Arab social media
Palestinian campaign celebrates kidnapping





I can promise you, in no uncertain terms, if my sisters kids were ever caught by me, celebrating the murder of unarmed helpless kids.... I would beat the snot out of them, and then her, for let them do such a thing.   Then my father in his 70s, would come beat the snot out of them, and then her.   Then my mother would spit on her face, and disown her.

This is the actions of animals, not human beings.  No civilized worth while human does anything like this.  Period.

So, no, I don't believe that the Palestinian have any real interest in peace.

As for the the tiny minority of them that may or may not exist, who actually want peace.... I would advise them that if they actually have any belief in peace, they should leave, and go live in peace elsewhere, because the rest of their society does not.  They are evil, barely human, scum.   And if they live with cruel terrible people, they will die with cruel terrible people.

That's life man.   You hang with evil, you suffer with the evil.  It's how the world works.


----------



## Tilly

Andylusion said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mainstream media only has a framework of violence to understand the Question of Palestine, which makes it ill-equipped to understand and explain one of the largest civil protests among Palestinians in recent history. That is why the media sounds like it is trying to shove a square into a circle as it fails to explicitly say Israel executed 18 Palestinians and injured 1400 others where no lethal threat was posed and while Palestinians were literally on their own lands in the buffer zone - 300-500 meters of agricultural lands Israel arbitrarily marked as a buffer zone- and not even at Israel's undeclared militarized border.
> 
> This is about Israel's settler anxiety and the inability to make Palestinians disappear- they have not forgotten, not assimilated into other countries, and struggle to return motivated by love and belonging. ~ Noura Erakat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would be because there is no question.  Israel belongs to Israelis.  Murderous terrorist belong no where.
> 
> You can write this down, and post it on a calendar with my name by it.
> 
> Palestinians will disappear.  They will either disappear by choice, or they will disappear by death.   But they will disappear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel and the Jews do not want the Palestinians to disappear.
> 
> They just want to live in peace side by side, as so many Arabs Muslims and Christians already do, be it in Israel or in the territories.
> 
> Many Arab Palestinians are peaceful.  It is the destructive, poisonous Islamic teachings of demanding that Jews remain dhimmies to the Muslims which needs to go away.
> 
> It will take time.
> 
> The Arabs will lose, and will have to give up their attempts to destroy Israel.
> 
> The teachings and UNWRA have to go.
> 
> Only then, any possibility of peace can come up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I used to think that way.  I used to think "hey they just want peace just like the Jews".  I originally had that view before about the year 2000.   That's when a Jewish man in a car, who accidentally turned off on the wrong exit on a highway, was dragged from his car, beaten, *tossed out the window of a police station*, to a massive crowd of "peaceful Palestinians, and then decapitated, and his body tied to ropes, given to peaceful Palestinian children, and dragged through the streets of the city.
> 
> View attachment 187458
> 
> Because he was shooting Palestinians?  Because he was military?  Because he was beating people?  No..... because he turned off the wrong exit.
> 
> That shattered my illusions, and made me question just how good and peaceful these Palestinians are.
> 
> Since then, more proof has been given that these people are anything but good, or peaceful.
> 
> Electing Hamas in 2006, proved to me, that is wasn't an isolated faction of violent people, but the wide spread opinion of at least the majority of voters.
> 
> And the last straw for me was the 'The Three Shalits' campaign in 2014, in which the Palestinians celebrated the kidnapping and murder of 3 Jewish kids.
> 
> Pro-kidnapping salute gains steam on Palestinian, Arab social media
> Palestinian campaign celebrates kidnapping
> 
> View attachment 187459
> 
> I can promise you, in no uncertain terms, if my sisters kids were ever caught by me, celebrating the murder of unarmed helpless kids.... I would beat the snot out of them, and then her, for let them do such a thing.   Then my father in his 70s, would come beat the snot out of them, and then her.   Then my mother would spit on her face, and disown her.
> 
> This is the actions of animals, not human beings.  No civilized worth while human does anything like this.  Period.
> 
> So, no, I don't believe that the Palestinian have any real interest in peace.
> 
> As for the the tiny minority of them that may or may not exist, who actually want peace.... I would advise them that if they actually have any belief in peace, they should leave, and go live in peace elsewhere, because the rest of their society does not.  They are evil, barely human, scum.   And if they live with cruel terrible people, they will die with cruel terrible people.
> 
> That's life man.   You hang with evil, you suffer with the evil.  It's how the world works.
Click to expand...

Oh Good Lord. I’d forgotten about the savages that tore that man apart.
Incomprehensible that humans could do this at all, let alone just because the other person is a Jewish Israeli.
I’m not religious, but when I read of such heinous acts, I find myself hoping there is a hell so these savages and people like them roast in it for eternity.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians Are Welcome to Protest But Not Infiltrate Israel En Masse (FB Video) 

David Keyes interviewed by Gamal Fahnbulleh (Sky News)

Prime Minister Netanyahu's spokesman David Keyes was interviewed by Sky News presenter Gamal Fahnbulleh last week.

Q: How do you justify the deaths of 18 Palestinians on the Israel-Gaza border?
Keyes: Israel found itself in the unfortunate situation where a mob of tens of thousands was encroaching towards the border. People blew up the security fence. People launched Molotov cocktails. And Hamas' stated aim, which it repeated in recent days, is the total and utter annihilation of Israel. They even go so far as to advocate genocide of Jews and genocide of Americans. Ahmad Bahar, the deputy speaker of the parliament, called to "kill every single Jew." Yahya Sinwar, the Hamas leader, called to "eat the livers of the Israelis."
So when Israel found itself in a situation where it was being shot at, where people were trying to infiltrate en masse, it took the steps that any state would have taken and defended its people. The full onus is on this genocidal terrorist organization which is theocratic, dictatorial, doesn't care one wit about its people, and that's why it is stealing so much money, hiding behind children and women. They took a 7-year-old girl and sent her to Israeli soldiers so if she was shot it would be a victory for Hamas. This is insane. This is outrageous. This is an abomination and it should stop right now.

Q: You say no Israeli soldiers have been injured or killed. Where is the proportion?
Keyes: The way to judge what is right and wrong is not to tally up the sides and have the exact number of people. If a criminal comes into a home and starts shooting people, you don't say, well, unfortunately not enough policemen died protecting the family, and that's the situation we're in today. There's no parity whatsoever. There's no moral comparison whatsoever. I think we should be a little bit smarter than to say, well, we want the exact same number on both sides to die. That's ridiculous.

Q: Aren't some people just protesting for their right to return?
Keyes: What does the right to return mean? It's a euphemism for the destruction of Israel. Hamas' leadership has been abundantly clear. Ismail Haniyeh and Mahmoud al-Zahar routinely call for the annihilation of Israel. People are welcome to protest as much as they want, anywhere they want, anytime they want. What they can't do is try to infiltrate Israel en masse, which is exactly what they said they would do.


----------



## Sixties Fan

BBC News promotes political NGO’s commentary on Gaza video


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Egyptian government is concerned that the events of the Hamas “Return March” in Gaza may spill over into Egyptian territory.
Hamas has rejected an Egyptian proposal for Hamas to calm tensions in Gaza in exchange for Egypt opening the Rafah Crossing on a regular basis.

(full article online)

Why Egypt Is Concerned about Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

In addition, civilians who are not self-declared terrorists but are nevertheless sent to the fence are used, in effect, as human shields. It seems that most of the protesters have volunteered to take an active part in the violent protests; some are even paid by Hamas to participate. There are divergent interpretations in international law as to the proper response in such a case. One approach maintains that when a civilian chooses to take an active role in hostilities, of his own free will, he loses his immunity and may be attacked.

Even if many consider its cause to be just, the time has come for Hamas to be subjected to condemnation for its premeditated use of violent and dangerous actions and its intentional endangerment of the citizens under its control during demonstrations portrayed as civilian in nature. Only when Hamas (and those segments of the Palestinian population that support violence) realizes that the sympathy shown toward it is decreasing, and that there is no international support for or recognition of its efforts, will it be possible to reduce the number of such violent protests.

(full article online)

Decreasing international support for Hamas will stop Gaza violent protests


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ They are now starting it a day earlier.  Actually, does it ever stop?  ]

A rioter was shot and killed during a violent protest on the Israel-Gaza border Thursday evening, health officials in the Gaza Strip claimed.

Officials in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip identified the man as 28-year-old Abdullah al-Shahari, a resident of the Gaza Strip who was reportedly shot and killed during a demonstration outside of Khan Yunis in the southern Gaza Strip.

According to _AFP_, IDF officials could not confirm the incident.

If verified, the latest death would raise the total number of fatalities in the riots at 33.

(full article online)

Report: One killed in clashes on Gaza border


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Why is Israel Threatened by Unarmed Gaza Protesters*

**
**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Why is Israel Threatened by Unarmed Gaza Protesters*
> 
> **
> **



You're not paying attention.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Why is Israel Threatened by Unarmed Gaza Protesters*
> 
> **
> **





P F Tinmore said:


> *Why is Israel Threatened by Unarmed Gaza Protesters*
> 
> **
> **


 
The Palestinians have to know that “ Right of Return” is a dead ( no pun) issue throwing Rocks, HomeMade Weapons, explosives is not going to help their “ cause”


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Why is Israel Threatened by Unarmed Gaza Protesters*
> 
> **
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're not paying attention.
Click to expand...

 
He never does


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ They are now starting it a day earlier.  Actually, does it ever stop?  ]
> 
> A rioter was shot and killed during a violent protest on the Israel-Gaza border Thursday evening, health officials in the Gaza Strip claimed.
> 
> Officials in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip identified the man as 28-year-old Abdullah al-Shahari, a resident of the Gaza Strip who was reportedly shot and killed during a demonstration outside of Khan Yunis in the southern Gaza Strip.
> 
> According to _AFP_, IDF officials could not confirm the incident.
> 
> If verified, the latest death would raise the total number of fatalities in the riots at 33.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Report: One killed in clashes on Gaza border


What riot?
What clashes?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ They are now starting it a day earlier.  Actually, does it ever stop?  ]
> 
> A rioter was shot and killed during a violent protest on the Israel-Gaza border Thursday evening, health officials in the Gaza Strip claimed.
> 
> Officials in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip identified the man as 28-year-old Abdullah al-Shahari, a resident of the Gaza Strip who was reportedly shot and killed during a demonstration outside of Khan Yunis in the southern Gaza Strip.
> 
> According to _AFP_, IDF officials could not confirm the incident.
> 
> If verified, the latest death would raise the total number of fatalities in the riots at 33.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Report: One killed in clashes on Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> What riot?
> What clashes?
Click to expand...

As some have already pointed out....

You are not paying attention.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The Egyptian government is concerned that the events of the Hamas “Return March” in Gaza may spill over into Egyptian territory.
> Hamas has rejected an Egyptian proposal for Hamas to calm tensions in Gaza in exchange for Egypt opening the Rafah Crossing on a regular basis.
> (full article online)
> 
> Why Egypt Is Concerned about Gaza


Good article, thanks.

The _Al-Khaleej Online_ website reported on April 9, 2018,  that Egypt planned to open the Rafah crossing to traffic in both directions for a four-day period as a gesture toward the Hamas leadership and to reduce tensions in Gaza following the Return March.​
Pfffft, Egypt is trying to bribe Hamas with chickenfeed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ They are now starting it a day earlier.  Actually, does it ever stop?  ]
> 
> A rioter was shot and killed during a violent protest on the Israel-Gaza border Thursday evening, health officials in the Gaza Strip claimed.
> 
> Officials in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip identified the man as 28-year-old Abdullah al-Shahari, a resident of the Gaza Strip who was reportedly shot and killed during a demonstration outside of Khan Yunis in the southern Gaza Strip.
> 
> According to _AFP_, IDF officials could not confirm the incident.
> 
> If verified, the latest death would raise the total number of fatalities in the riots at 33.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Report: One killed in clashes on Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> What riot?
> What clashes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As some have already pointed out....
> 
> You are not paying attention.
Click to expand...

That is what Israel says.

What Israel says isn't worth crap.


----------



## Rambunctious

The so called Palestinians want all Jews to leave the middle east and give over Israel to them because the Palestinians don't want to live with Jews...they are religious bigots....I say if they are massing on the border it's a good thing...take em all out...the world does not need religious bigots...


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ They are now starting it a day earlier.  Actually, does it ever stop?  ]
> 
> A rioter was shot and killed during a violent protest on the Israel-Gaza border Thursday evening, health officials in the Gaza Strip claimed.
> 
> Officials in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip identified the man as 28-year-old Abdullah al-Shahari, a resident of the Gaza Strip who was reportedly shot and killed during a demonstration outside of Khan Yunis in the southern Gaza Strip.
> 
> According to _AFP_, IDF officials could not confirm the incident.
> 
> If verified, the latest death would raise the total number of fatalities in the riots at 33.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Report: One killed in clashes on Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> What riot?
> What clashes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As some have already pointed out....
> 
> You are not paying attention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is what Israel says.
> 
> What Israel says isn't worth crap.
Click to expand...


And we're back to self-defeating slogans 
by Team "I don't see a Swastika in my yard".

*
*


----------



## Sixties Fan

New York Times Editorial Suggests Israel Use Fire Hoses on Palestinian Protesters


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Another Friday, another Muslim rage spectacle ]


Palestinian protesters in Gaza on Friday hurled an explosive device and firebombs at Israeli troops manning the border, during what the Israel Defense Forces described as “several attempts” to damage the fence between Israel and the Gaza Strip and cross over into Israeli territory.

Thousands of Palestinians were taking part in violent riots in five locations along the length of the border, the army said. In addition to trying to cross the barrier, a number of attacks were carried out, with demonstrators throwing Molotov cocktails and explosives at Israeli soldiers.

(full article online)

IDF: Gaza protesters hurl explosives, firebombs, try to damage fence


----------



## Sixties Fan

Muhammad Hajila, a member of the Hamas Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades who was killed overnight Friday by IDF fire in the Gaza Strip, was part of the cell that carried out an attack on the Israeli community of Nahal Oz during the 2014 Gaza war, Hamas-affiliated media reported.

A number of IAF fighter jets attacked a terrorist target inside a military compound belonging to Hamas in the northern Gaza Strip around 1 AM Friday. The attack came in response to the detonating of an explosive device against an IDF bulldozer near the border fence on Thursday.

(full article online)

Terrorist Killed by IAF Fire Participated in Hamas Attack that Killed 5 in Nahal Oz


----------



## Sixties Fan

After two Fridays of demonstrations, many in the Arab world are now supporting Israel against Hamas, mostly because those rallies are seen as being initiated and supported by Iran, and in the Gulf states, as well as in Saudi Arabia and Egypt, Iran is feared as a zealous, destabilizing, expansionist force in the Middle East.

One important commentator in Kuwait has written that Iran is behind the demonstrations, that the demonstrations are not helping the Arab world, and that the IDF should “kill all the demonstrators.”

Even some un-named officials in Ramallah have condemned Hamas, which, they said, “throws babies into the fence and trades in the blood of children.” Arab social networks also show an eroding support for the demonstrations and for Hamas.

(full article online)

Third Friday’s Gaza Fence Rally Theme: Burn Israeli Flags


----------



## Sixties Fan

They couldn't have imported these flags from Israel, which means that somewhere in Gaza, someone is manufacturing hundreds of Israeli flags to burn.

Meanwhile, women in Gaza are joining the festivities by painting their shoes as Israeli flags.






(full article online)

Someone in Gaza is making lots of money manufacturing Israeli flags ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

But the problem is arguably worse, because the entire border is susceptible to infiltration during the weekly riots, not just the areas where Gazans are gathering. Here are some satellite images showing how close Israeli communities are from Gaza - a short walk away in many cases.

Nahal Oz is about 800 meters from the border.





These four communities - from the top, Kisufim, Ein Hashlosha, Nirim and Nir Oz - are between 1-2 miles from the border.

Here's the thing. Only three weeks ago, a mere days before the first "Great Return March,"  Hamas held military exercises that were centered on kidnapping Israelis. Their exercises were centered on kidnapping Israeli soldiers, but their tunnel placement and the fact that they are holding Israeli citizens, today, as hostages show that they want to kidnap civilians as well.

Who is running these riots? Hamas!

(full article online)

The dangers to Israeli citizens from  the Gaza riots (that the media doesn't bother to explain) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Nobody in the world has the right to criticize Israel’s defensive actions on the Gaza border, even if Israel had used significant force against the Hamas mobs – which it didn’t. Having been so wrong in their Pollyannaish hopes for the Oslo Accords, for the Arab Spring, and for the JCPOA – and so feckless during the Holocaust – the nations of the world have no moral right to tell Israel what to do, how to conduct its politics, where to erect its security fences, how to conduct its military campaigns, where draw its borders or how to defend them, or what ancestral lands to trade away, if at all, to the Palestinians.

(full article online)

Defiance


----------



## Sixties Fan

14:36 Protestors celebrate Hamas's holding of Israeli captives









Protesters hold a coffin with an Israeli flag and the pictures of four Hamas captives, from left: soldiers Hadar Goldin and Oron Shaul and Israeli civilians Hisham al-Sayed and Avera Mengistu on April 13th, 2018. Both soldiers are presumed dead, while the other two have not been declared as such. REUTERS/Mohammed Salem

(full article online)

LIVE UPDATES: Gazans attempt to breach fence with explosives


----------



## Sixties Fan

16:31 Protesters set off explosive, try to fly kite bomb over border

The IDF spokesperson stated that the violence on the border has continued throughout the past hour. An explosive device was placed and detonated near the Karni crossing, and may have caused Palestinian casualties. A kite bomb with a Molotov cocktail attached was attempted to be sent into Israeli territory, but ended up landing within Gaza. 

This is in addition to several attempts by the over 10,000 protesters throughout the last hour to breach the border between Israel and Gaza and sabotage security infrastructure.


----------



## Sixties Fan

17:36 Liberman tweets to soldiers at the border

Defense Minister Avigdor Liberman tweeted regarding the Gaza protests:

"From week to week, there are fewer riots on our border with Gaza. Our resolve is well understood on the other side. I thank the soldiers and IDF commanders for professional and ethical work in guarding the border. Thank to you, the citizens of Israel can proceed with the routine, and a small and two-faced minority can even protest against you. Shabbat Shalom!

(full article online)

LIVE UPDATES: Hamas-run Health Ministry reports 363 wounded in clashes


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Protesters are dwindling each week by 10,000.   What does it mean for next week?  ]

Some 10,000 Palestinians were taking part in violent riots in five locations along the length of the border, the army said. In addition to trying to breach and cross the barrier, they carried out a number of attacks, including throwing Molotov cocktails and explosives at Israeli soldiers.

(full article online)

IDF: Gazans hurl explosives, firebombs, burn Israeli flags, try to damage fence


----------



## Sixties Fan

In these thirty years of wars and frictions between Israelis and Palestinians, nobody remembers the Israeli military missions aborted due to the presence of Palestinian civilians, the checkpoints removed and exploited to carry out attacks, the Israeli humanitarian aid trucks entered in Gaza, the Israeli hospitals always full of injured and sick Palestinians, Palestinian ambulances used to transport weapons and murderers, UN schools from which missiles are launched, tunnels dug under mosques, trials and convictions given to Israeli soldiers who have broken rules of engagement.

The Great Lie has eaten the truth of the conflict, namely that Israel, the besieged at every border, it is the true weak part of the conflict.

The conquest of the hearts and minds of the West is the biggest Palestinian booty. This is how the "Palestinian question" has become strategic over the last fifty years and has dominated the UN stage. Without the newspapers, the NGOs, the chanceries, the news of the evening, the social media and the squares, the Palestinians today would be more irrelevant than the Tibetans or the Papuans, their victims yes of an authentic "occupation", but last in the hierarchy of international compassion. 

(full article online)

Imagine that you are that Israeli soldier


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas this week made an urgent appeal to UNRWA: “SEND TIRES!”  The anticipated shipment was not received in time for today’s fire burning festival in Gaza.  However, Hamas’s foresight of this calamity it appears has saved the day, as it had instructed its Arts and Crafts Department earlier in the week to construct what they call the “Ark of the Palestinian Covenant”.  The lightweight, hollow on the inside, and portable box draped with an Israeli flag with a big red X over the star of David is being paraded on the field in Gaza on the shoulders of four strong Palestinian men, while they smile at the cameras, it has been reported.  Since the tires were not received in time, today’s fire burning festival will involve flags.

Last Friday, Palestinians burned rubber tires and as black thick clouds of smoke violently assaulted the ozone not a single signer of the Paris climate accord appealed to the Palestinians to exercise restraint in their “non-violent with all the violence” protest.  In all fairness, France’s President Macron was too busy applying moisturizer to his skin and Germany's Chancellor Merkel was preoccupied with organizing “assimilation parties” for Muslim refugees, on how to be good German citizens.

Hamas:  "SEND TIRES!"


----------



## P F Tinmore

WOW, Israel's bullshit machine is running on overtime.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> WOW, Israel's bullshit machine is running on overtime.


unmask the "bullshit" or shut the heck up!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, Israel's bullshit machine is running on overtime.
> 
> 
> 
> unmask the "bullshit" or shut the heck up!
Click to expand...

Read your last several posts.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, Israel's bullshit machine is running on overtime.
> 
> 
> 
> unmask the "bullshit" or shut the heck up!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Read your last several posts.
Click to expand...

Mr., I live in the US Midwest.

Unless you can disprove any of the articles posted, you truly have no right to say anything.

You are not discussing, you are simply crying foul without any ability to disprove any of it.

Some reporter !!!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, Israel's bullshit machine is running on overtime.
> 
> 
> 
> unmask the "bullshit" or shut the heck up!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Read your last several posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mr., I live in the US Midwest.
> 
> Unless you can disprove any of the articles posted, you truly have no right to say anything.
> 
> You are not discussing, you are simply crying foul without any ability to disprove any of it.
> 
> Some reporter !!!!
Click to expand...

Basically they were all slime the Palestinians and apologize for Israel's violence.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, Israel's bullshit machine is running on overtime.
> 
> 
> 
> unmask the "bullshit" or shut the heck up!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Read your last several posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mr., I live in the US Midwest.
> 
> Unless you can disprove any of the articles posted, you truly have no right to say anything.
> 
> You are not discussing, you are simply crying foul without any ability to disprove any of it.
> 
> Some reporter !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Basically they were all slime the Palestinians and apologize for Israel's violence.
Click to expand...

Oh, so ........it is simply because you do not like what the articles say about the "peaceful" protesters, who have for the past three Fridays attempted to breach a sovereign Country's border fence in order to invade it, kidnap and kill its Jewish citizens, and any other non Jew who might oppose them,  and take over the country.

If the Palestinians behave like slime, then .....all one needs to do is to show in videos and photos the kind of slimes they are.


----------



## Sixties Fan

An Israeli group, Physicians for Human Rights Israel, said it was sending eight Arab doctors from Israel to Gaza to treat Palestinians wounded in demonstrations against Israel at the Gaza border.

The NGO also will deliver insulin syringes collected by Israeli volunteers in a Facebook campaign, 93 iron rods for surgery to repair bone fractures, blood thinners, vitamins, sewing thread for operating rooms and other medications.

(full article online)

Israeli NGO sends 8 doctors into Gaza to treat protesters hurt in border clashes


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, Israel's bullshit machine is running on overtime.
> 
> 
> 
> unmask the "bullshit" or shut the heck up!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Read your last several posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mr., I live in the US Midwest.
> 
> Unless you can disprove any of the articles posted, you truly have no right to say anything.
> 
> You are not discussing, you are simply crying foul without any ability to disprove any of it.
> 
> Some reporter !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Basically they were all slime the Palestinians and apologize for Israel's violence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, so ........it is simply because you do not like what the articles say about the "peaceful" protesters, who have for the past three Fridays attempted to breach a sovereign Country's border fence in order to invade it, kidnap and kill its Jewish citizens, and any other non Jew who might oppose them,  and take over the country.
> 
> If the Palestinians behave like slime, then .....all one needs to do is to show in videos and photos the kind of slimes they are.
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> An Israeli group, Physicians for Human Rights Israel, said it was sending eight Arab doctors from Israel to Gaza to treat Palestinians wounded in demonstrations against Israel at the Gaza border.
> 
> The NGO also will deliver insulin syringes collected by Israeli volunteers in a Facebook campaign, 93 iron rods for surgery to repair bone fractures, blood thinners, vitamins, sewing thread for operating rooms and other medications.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Israeli NGO sends 8 doctors into Gaza to treat protesters hurt in border clashes


What clashes? It is Israel shooting fish in a barrel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> unmask the "bullshit" or shut the heck up!
> 
> 
> 
> Read your last several posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mr., I live in the US Midwest.
> 
> Unless you can disprove any of the articles posted, you truly have no right to say anything.
> 
> You are not discussing, you are simply crying foul without any ability to disprove any of it.
> 
> Some reporter !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Basically they were all slime the Palestinians and apologize for Israel's violence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, so ........it is simply because you do not like what the articles say about the "peaceful" protesters, who have for the past three Fridays attempted to breach a sovereign Country's border fence in order to invade it, kidnap and kill its Jewish citizens, and any other non Jew who might oppose them,  and take over the country.
> 
> If the Palestinians behave like slime, then .....all one needs to do is to show in videos and photos the kind of slimes they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Yeap, that is your brain in a nutshell. Thanks.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, Israel's bullshit machine is running on overtime.
> 
> 
> 
> unmask the "bullshit" or shut the heck up!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Read your last several posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mr., I live in the US Midwest.
> 
> Unless you can disprove any of the articles posted, you truly have no right to say anything.
> 
> You are not discussing, you are simply crying foul without any ability to disprove any of it.
> 
> Some reporter !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Basically they were all slime the Palestinians and apologize for Israel's violence.
Click to expand...


Your school-boy hurt feelings and silly slogans are time wasting.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> An Israeli group, Physicians for Human Rights Israel, said it was sending eight Arab doctors from Israel to Gaza to treat Palestinians wounded in demonstrations against Israel at the Gaza border.
> 
> The NGO also will deliver insulin syringes collected by Israeli volunteers in a Facebook campaign, 93 iron rods for surgery to repair bone fractures, blood thinners, vitamins, sewing thread for operating rooms and other medications.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Israeli NGO sends 8 doctors into Gaza to treat protesters hurt in border clashes
> 
> 
> 
> What clashes? It is Israel shooting fish in a barrel.
Click to expand...


Is Hamas running a sale on martyrs?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, Israel's bullshit machine is running on overtime.
> 
> 
> 
> unmask the "bullshit" or shut the heck up!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Read your last several posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mr., I live in the US Midwest.
> 
> Unless you can disprove any of the articles posted, you truly have no right to say anything.
> 
> You are not discussing, you are simply crying foul without any ability to disprove any of it.
> 
> Some reporter !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Basically they were all slime the Palestinians and apologize for Israel's violence.
Click to expand...

 
The Palestinians excite Violence and they get Violence.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Three weeks: How Gaza’s mass protests are failing to make an impact


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, Israel's bullshit machine is running on overtime.
> 
> 
> 
> unmask the "bullshit" or shut the heck up!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Read your last several posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mr., I live in the US Midwest.
> 
> Unless you can disprove any of the articles posted, you truly have no right to say anything.
> 
> You are not discussing, you are simply crying foul without any ability to disprove any of it.
> 
> Some reporter !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Basically they were all slime the Palestinians and apologize for Israel's violence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your school-boy hurt feelings and silly slogans are time wasting.
Click to expand...

 
The Palestinian Vernon was throwing Malotov Cocktails, trying to break down the fence, shoot bow and arrows,  set fire, etc .But Israel initiated the Violence?????   lol.


----------



## Sixties Fan

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 15-Apr-18: On Israel's violent Gaza border, a battle of narratives


----------



## Sixties Fan

SICK: Palestinian Drags 3-Month-Old Baby to Violent Gaza Riot


----------



## Sixties Fan

On April 13th the BBC News website published a report about the third consecutive Friday of rioting along the Israel-Gaza Strip border. Titled “Fierce clashes continue at Gaza-Israel border fence“, the article was promoted on the website’s main homepage and ‘World’ page as well as on its ‘Middle East’ page and it included the same themes – and omissions – seen in previous BBC reporting (see ‘related articles’ below) on the same story.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Although readers once again saw use of the term ‘ancestral land’, the report made no effort to clarify that the vast majority of the people described as refugees are in fact descendants of refugees or that the aim of the Palestinian demand for ‘right of return’ is in fact to eradicate the Jewish state:  a goal that it is incompatible with the internationally accepted ‘two-state solution’ to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

(full article online)

BBC report on latest Gaza violence follows established pattern


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Iranian-backed Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist organization lost four of its operatives in a “work accident” that took place this weekend along the Gaza border with Israel.

The group said the four were killed during “preparations” in an accidental explosion, according to Arab affairs journalist Khaled Abu Toameh.

(full article online)

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/bre...in-work-accident-on-israel-border/2018/04/14/


----------



## Sixties Fan

This video shows Israeli soldiers approaching a Gaza kid who is at the fence.

(full article online)

Israeli soldiers give Bissli snack to Gaza kid sent to border (video) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

“In the last 24 hours, there have been several cases of kite flying with Molotov cocktails from the strip to our territory,” the council said in a statement. “In all cases, the bottles fell close to the border and caused fires, without casualties… The public is asked to be alert and to report on any unusual incident of fires in the area.”

(full article online)

Gazans fly kite with petrol bomb into Israel, where it sets field afire


----------



## Sixties Fan

Yes, what a cycle of violence. Hamas builds tunnels to kill Israelis and Israel destroys them.

_Oy gevalt._

In case the bias of commission wasn't egregious enough, note the bias of omission: The 12 (really 14) people killed when the tunnel was destroyed in October were all Islamic Jihad and Hamas terrorists. But to ZDF, they are implied to be civilians. (The impression one gets from reading this story is thatIsrael is "more cautious" because it doesn't want to kill as many civilians this time)

(full article online)

German news site describes Israel destroying a Hamas terror tunnel as IDF "violence" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Why Egypt Is Concerned about Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

“As previously reported, COGAT sent notices to the owners of transportation companies in the Gaza Strip, warning them not to aid in the transport of Hamas terrorists and violent rioters to the Gaza Strip border with Israel,” Mordechai writes in a statement.

The COGAT head asserts that “the violent riots that have been taking place are fueled by Hamas and are an attempt to mask terror activities.”

In a separate Arabic Facebook post, Mordechai lists the 14 companies by name.

(full article online)

COGAT sanctions Gaza transport companies that ferried protesters


----------



## Sixties Fan

So when, in today's newspaper, the _New York Times_ invoked Lennon's most famous anti-war lyrics to describe Hamas's position — "Battle Weary, Hamas Gives Peaceful Protests a Chance," a headline in the newspaper's April 16 print edition declared — it was a discordant juxtaposition with the terror organization's actual policies, and its continued glorification of violence. Only a day earlier, Israel uncovered yet another of Hamas's cross-border attack tunnels. 

The _Times _article itself was somewhat more equivocal than its print headline. Reporter David Halbfinger told readers that "mixed messages have abounded" during the Great Return March, the name given to planned Palestinian demonstrations and riots along Israel's border. He quoted a Palestinian leader describing the march as a "deadly weapon," acknowledged that the supposedly peaceful protesters have thrown firebombs and other explosives, and cited skepticism of the idea that Hamas "may actually be rethinking its strategy."

But later in the piece Halbfinger seemed to forget about those firebombs, and about the distinction between Palestinian families gathered in tents further from the border and rioters who sought to harm the fence and the Israelis guarding it, when he stated that Israel responded to "protests" with gunfire that killed Palestinians, "almost all of them unarmed."

(full article online)

CAMERA: Times Headline Invokes John Lennon Anti-War Lyrics to Describe Hamas


----------



## Sixties Fan

Just as contradictory as the Times reporting on Israel’s use of nonlethal force has been its reporting in economic conditions in Gaza. One Times dispatch managed simultaneously to refer to Gaza’s “collapsing economy” and report as well that at one of the riot sites, “Once a day or so, a delivery arrives with free slices of pizza or cakes.”

The Times has been insisting that the Gaza riots were “ignited by isolation and economic deprivation.” A good question for the newspaper’s intrepid Gaza-based journalists to pursue might be who paid for the pizza and cakes, and who caused them to be delivered to the riot site? They may have been “free” to the rioters, but someone must have paid at some point for their ingredients, production, and delivery. Instead the Times account has them arriving almost magically, a kind of immaculate pizza delivery, a Domino’s ex machina, so to speak.

Speaking of pizza, there’s actually an interesting news article to be written about the Gaza dairy industry. A 2017 Oxfam International report faulted Israel for flooding Gaza with dairy products:

(full article online)

Palestinian ‘Protest Pizza’ Tells a Story at Which The New York Times Only Hints


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

“Sharp Power”: Hamas’s Dirty War Against Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

The 'supreme national authority of the return march' and the breaking of the siege in Gaza' announced Wednesday the relocation of the protest tent city 50 meters, bringing it closer to the border fence with Israel, the _al Resalah _Arabic news site reported.

The council stated that the relocation of the tent city would serve "as a continuation of the national program of the return marches and the breaking of the siege. [It is] a message of determination from our people to the world around us to move forward towards its legitimate and permanent objectives. We declare that the camps of return are 50 meters ahead as a first step."

(full article online)

Gaza tent city moved 50 meters closer to border


----------



## jillian

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'



that's from March 29th.

Passover is over... it didn't happen.


----------



## Billy_Kinetta

jillian said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that's from March 29th.
> 
> Passover is over... it didn't happen.
Click to expand...


It was posted March 30th.  The piece was published March 29th.  There were incidents at the Wall.  About 50 "Palestinians" were killed.

Why do Democrats so enjoy ignorance?


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terror Center has released its initial analysis of the first 32 people reported killed in the Gaza riots, and they find that as many as 80% of the 32 killed so far have been members of, or associated with, terror organizations.

(full article online)

80% of those killed in Gaza have been members of, or linked to,  terror organizations ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

A few years ago, there was another "march" on Israel. At the time, legal scholar Eugene Kontorovich wrote a relevant article on the legality of Israel defending itself in such a situation - using a startlingly similar event that happened in the Western Sahara:

 In 1975, Spain appeared ready to pull out of much or all of Western Sahara, a large desert region between Mauritania and Morocco. Rabat hoped to annex the mineral-rich territory, but its claims of sovereignty were successively denied by a report of a U.N. fact-finding mission and an advisory opinion of the International Court of Justice, both of which favored self-determination for the region.

Morocco was not deterred. Right after being rebuffed by those international organs, it mounted the Green March — sending 350,000 unarmed Moroccans on a well-choreographed hike into Western Sahara. Spain was not willing to fight against such numbers, and evacuated the territory. The Moroccan military moved in, and the territory remains under Moroccan control to this day.

The press has taken to calling the Arabs marching across the Israeli frontier “protesters.” In fact, “protests” are contained within a country;the organized crossing of a frontier is an invasion. In 1975, when Western Sahara was the victim, the world community was clear on this point (even though the Moroccans were unarmed.). Other Arab leaders called the Green March “a violation of the sovereignty of” Western Sahara and “an act contrary to international law.” Prominent international scholars described it as an illegal use of force, a “stealing of the Sahara,” in the words of one of the leading international lawyers of the time. The U.N. Security Council passed a measure that “deplored” Morocco’s invasion.

Moreover, despite the nominally civilian character of the marchers, several U.N. General Assembly resolutions recognized that the enterprise constituted a military occupation by Morocco. Observers noted that the march could not have gone off without the permission, and indeed encouragement, of King Hassan of Morocco, and thus he must take responsibility as if he had ordered army units across the border. It was a conquest despite the lack of arms: A large organized mob can be as forceful as an armed military unit. Indeed, as the Spanish capitulation proved, a march could be a more effective tool of conquest than a military strike against Western armies reluctant to fire on civilians.

(full article online)

What are Israel's rights under international law to defend itself from Gaza "marchers"? ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

In first, European Parliament condemns Hamas for terror, use of human shields


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas is instructing the media in Gaza on how ensure that coverage of the riots at the border aligns with the terror group's propaganda aims. This article was published on Sunday at  an Palestinian media outlet:

"The Governmental Information Office of the Palestinian Ministry of Information has set specific restrictions on media coverage of the Great Return Movement, which comes in the context of ensuring the objective  national coverage of the events and exposing the crimes of the occupation against the Palestinian people.

The Information Office stressed the need to describe the terms of events in the eastern Gaza Strip accurately, and not to use the terms confrontations or clashes, but an attack by the occupation army and its snipers on peaceful and peaceful civil movement.

It called on journalists and the local media to focus on the scene as a whole in accordance with the principles and objectives of the march announced by the National Committee for the March, and to try not to highlight the individual actions that are incompatible with the objectives of the marches."

No photos of Molotov cocktails and placing IEDs.

(full article online)

Hamas instructs the media on how to cover the riots ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## IsaacNewton

Are they still 'massing'? Or has the massing subsided into loitering, or into soccer. Did the end of the world take place? 

Was this thread here for a reason? Enquiring minds want to know.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ma'an reports that the tents set up for Gaza demonstrators tomorrow are only 50 meters away from the fence, much closer than the hundreds of meters that they had been up until now.

Tellingly, the person who explains this decision is from the Islamic Jihad terror group.

Leader of the Islamic Jihad movement and a member of the refugee committee in the return march, Ahmed Almdalal, told reporters that the tents will get closer to the fence every week culminating in the attempt to cut the fence on "Nakba Day."

(full article online)

Friday's Gaza demonstration tents moving closer to fence as more kite firebombs are prepared ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israeli military aircraft dropped leaflets near the Gaza border on Friday morning warning Palestinians to keep away from the fence separating the coastal enclave from Israel, the IDF said, ahead of expected mass demonstrations slated for later in the day.

In a statement, the army said that the leaflets warned “against approaching the fence, attempting to damage it or attempts at terrorism.

“Violent disturbances in recent weeks took advantage of civilians in order to carry out terrorist acts against Israeli and IDF security infrastructure,” the statement continued. “The IDF will not abide damage to security infrastructure and the fence, which protect Israeli citizens, and will target anyone who attempts to harm Israel’s security.”

(full article online)

Israel drops leaflets warning Gaza protesters to keep away from fence


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Israeli military aircraft dropped leaflets near the Gaza border on Friday morning warning Palestinians to keep away from the fence separating the coastal enclave from Israel, the IDF said, ahead of expected mass demonstrations slated for later in the day.
> 
> In a statement, the army said that the leaflets warned “against approaching the fence, attempting to damage it or attempts at terrorism.
> 
> “Violent disturbances in recent weeks took advantage of civilians in order to carry out terrorist acts against Israeli and IDF security infrastructure,” the statement continued. “The IDF will not abide damage to security infrastructure and the fence, which protect Israeli citizens, and will target anyone who attempts to harm Israel’s security.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Israel drops leaflets warning Gaza protesters to keep away from fence


So Israel is telling Palestinians to stay off of Palestinian land? WTF!


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli military aircraft dropped leaflets near the Gaza border on Friday morning warning Palestinians to keep away from the fence separating the coastal enclave from Israel, the IDF said, ahead of expected mass demonstrations slated for later in the day.
> 
> In a statement, the army said that the leaflets warned “against approaching the fence, attempting to damage it or attempts at terrorism.
> 
> “Violent disturbances in recent weeks took advantage of civilians in order to carry out terrorist acts against Israeli and IDF security infrastructure,” the statement continued. “The IDF will not abide damage to security infrastructure and the fence, which protect Israeli citizens, and will target anyone who attempts to harm Israel’s security.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Israel drops leaflets warning Gaza protesters to keep away from fence
> 
> 
> 
> So Israel is telling Palestinians to stay off of Palestinian land? WTF!
Click to expand...

 
Israel is telling Gazans to stay away from the fence,
and away from the Israelis.

Can't be more clear than that.


----------



## Two Thumbs

I'm not saying that Israel should commit genocide on the Pals

I'm just saying they should kill them all.


----------



## rylah

Two Thumbs said:


> I'm not saying that Israel should commit genocide on the Pals
> 
> I'm just saying they should kill them all.


c'mon,...

Hamas intentions are suicidal they want to take as much Gazans and Israelis with them as they can. But it doesn't mean they can force anyone play into those sick provocations.

If anything it's the Arabs from the neighboring states who're more likely going to deal with Hamas themselves.


----------



## Two Thumbs

rylah said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not saying that Israel should commit genocide on the Pals
> 
> I'm just saying they should kill them all.
> 
> 
> 
> c'mon,...
> 
> Hamas intentions are suicidal they want to take as much Gazans and Israelis with them as they can. But it doesn't mean they can force anyone play into those sick provocations.
> 
> If anything it's the Arabs from the neighboring states who're more likely going to deal with Hamas themselves.
Click to expand...

if the people that support hamas were going to deal with hamas, they would have done so by now


----------



## rylah

Two Thumbs said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not saying that Israel should commit genocide on the Pals
> 
> I'm just saying they should kill them all.
> 
> 
> 
> c'mon,...
> 
> Hamas intentions are suicidal they want to take as much Gazans and Israelis with them as they can. But it doesn't mean they can force anyone play into those sick provocations.
> 
> If anything it's the Arabs from the neighboring states who're more likely going to deal with Hamas themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if the people that support hamas were going to deal with hamas, they would have done so by now
Click to expand...


Probably,
but the situation is bigger than that, to add to their stupidity they aligned Gaza with Iran,
making it a proxy of everyone's enemy in the neighborhood.

Let Arabs deal with those suicidal maniacs, they already understand how these Nazis are hurting their own interests in the middle east and on the global arena. Egypt has plans to simply install their own police and be done with it. with that madness.


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF prepares for another round of violent protests on Gaza border


----------



## Sixties Fan

As _AFP_ watched, three young men carried one kite dozens of meters towards the border before stopping to set the bottle alight.

With the flame lit, they sent it into the air and cut the thread -- watching as it floated over the border and crashed, causing a small fire.

"We use the kites to send a message," one proud teen terrorist said.

Another teen terrorist said, "We are flying kites to burn the farmland." An older terrorist said he hoped the kites would "destabilize, creating confusion," and expressed hope that they would result in "burned crops."

Since March 30, tens of thousands have rioted along the border, aiming to breach the border, tamper with the border fence and security infrastructure, and injure or kill IDF soldiers. Some of the rioters approached the fence, throwing stones and firebombs and rolling burning tires toward IDF soldiers stationed nearby.

Other rioters used explosives to injure soldiers and damage military equipment.

(full article online)

Gaza rioters attack Israel with flying firebombs


----------



## Sixties Fan

Rioters use a large slingshot to hurl stones during clashes with IDF troops on the Israel-Gaza border, April 20, 2018. Photo: Reuters / Mohammed Salem.

Two Palestinian rioters were killed in renewed unrest on the Israel-Gaza Strip border on Friday as a series of demonstrations in the Hamas-ruled coastal enclave reached its half-way mark.

Some rioters brought wire cutters to breach the border fence. Rioters also threw stones and burned tires.

As the crowd grew, Israeli soldiers called out warnings in Arabic over loudspeakers to individuals who approached the border fence.

Some rioters on Friday fitted kites with cans of flammable liquids which they hoped to fly across the border and start fires in Israel.

(full article online)

Palestinian Rioters Seek to Breach Border Fence in Renewed Gaza Violence


----------



## Sixties Fan

In a column published in _Haaretz_ last week, Gaza native Muhammad Shehada defended the demonstrations as a necessary response to Israel’s partial blockade, on which he blamed all of Gaza’s woes. His younger brother, he said, has participated in them almost daily. He himself is currently studying in Sweden but formerly worked for an anti-Israel “human rights” organization in Gaza. In short, he’s hardly an Israeli shill. Nevertheless, he noted that even Hamas believes Israel’s fire has been far from indiscriminate:


"Despite the seemingly arbitrary live-fire and tear gas raining down on the protestors … Hamas believes the victims are carefully selected. “Israel knows who to wound, maim or kill,” a Hamas leader told me by phone. At least 10 young men, affiliated with Hamas and its Qassam brigades, have been shot while maintaining order at the protest."


Hamas believes Israel is deploying facial recognition technologies besides the numerous war-drones that obliterate the sky above. The movement warned its members to keep their faces covered, and leave their phones at home.

This is what Israel has said all along. A report published last week by the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center (an organization founded by former Israeli intelligence officials that maintain close ties with the intelligence agencies) concluded that 80 percent of the people killed during the Gaza demonstrations–26 out of 32–were members of terrorist organizations. This conclusion wasn’t based on any secret intelligence; in each case, a terrorist organization publicly claimed the deceased as a member and buried him in the organization’s flag or published pictures of him in military dress holding a gun. This finding also explains why all but two of the dead were men between the ages of 19 and 45: Unlike the terrorists, actual civilians have largely kept their distance from the border fence.

(full article online)

Hamas and Israel Agree: Slain Protesters Weren’t Civilians | Evelyn Gordon


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> In a column published in _Haaretz_ last week, Gaza native Muhammad Shehada defended the demonstrations as a necessary response to Israel’s partial blockade, on which he blamed all of Gaza’s woes. His younger brother, he said, has participated in them almost daily. He himself is currently studying in Sweden but formerly worked for an anti-Israel “human rights” organization in Gaza. In short, he’s hardly an Israeli shill. Nevertheless, he noted that even Hamas believes Israel’s fire has been far from indiscriminate:
> 
> 
> "Despite the seemingly arbitrary live-fire and tear gas raining down on the protestors … Hamas believes the victims are carefully selected. “Israel knows who to wound, maim or kill,” a Hamas leader told me by phone. At least 10 young men, affiliated with Hamas and its Qassam brigades, have been shot while maintaining order at the protest."
> 
> 
> Hamas believes Israel is deploying facial recognition technologies besides the numerous war-drones that obliterate the sky above. The movement warned its members to keep their faces covered, and leave their phones at home.
> 
> This is what Israel has said all along. A report published last week by the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center (an organization founded by former Israeli intelligence officials that maintain close ties with the intelligence agencies) concluded that 80 percent of the people killed during the Gaza demonstrations–26 out of 32–were members of terrorist organizations. This conclusion wasn’t based on any secret intelligence; in each case, a terrorist organization publicly claimed the deceased as a member and buried him in the organization’s flag or published pictures of him in military dress holding a gun. This finding also explains why all but two of the dead were men between the ages of 19 and 45: Unlike the terrorists, actual civilians have largely kept their distance from the border fence.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas and Israel Agree: Slain Protesters Weren’t Civilians | Evelyn Gordon





Sixties Fan said:


> 80 percent of the people killed during the Gaza demonstrations–26 out of 32–were members of terrorist organizations.


Mere membership does not matter. They have to be actively engaged in armed activity.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In a column published in _Haaretz_ last week, Gaza native Muhammad Shehada defended the demonstrations as a necessary response to Israel’s partial blockade, on which he blamed all of Gaza’s woes. His younger brother, he said, has participated in them almost daily. He himself is currently studying in Sweden but formerly worked for an anti-Israel “human rights” organization in Gaza. In short, he’s hardly an Israeli shill. Nevertheless, he noted that even Hamas believes Israel’s fire has been far from indiscriminate:
> 
> 
> "Despite the seemingly arbitrary live-fire and tear gas raining down on the protestors … Hamas believes the victims are carefully selected. “Israel knows who to wound, maim or kill,” a Hamas leader told me by phone. At least 10 young men, affiliated with Hamas and its Qassam brigades, have been shot while maintaining order at the protest."
> 
> 
> Hamas believes Israel is deploying facial recognition technologies besides the numerous war-drones that obliterate the sky above. The movement warned its members to keep their faces covered, and leave their phones at home.
> 
> This is what Israel has said all along. A report published last week by the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center (an organization founded by former Israeli intelligence officials that maintain close ties with the intelligence agencies) concluded that 80 percent of the people killed during the Gaza demonstrations–26 out of 32–were members of terrorist organizations. This conclusion wasn’t based on any secret intelligence; in each case, a terrorist organization publicly claimed the deceased as a member and buried him in the organization’s flag or published pictures of him in military dress holding a gun. This finding also explains why all but two of the dead were men between the ages of 19 and 45: Unlike the terrorists, actual civilians have largely kept their distance from the border fence.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas and Israel Agree: Slain Protesters Weren’t Civilians | Evelyn Gordon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 80 percent of the people killed during the Gaza demonstrations–26 out of 32–were members of terrorist organizations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mere membership does not matter. They have to be actively engaged in armed activity.
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Army puts number of demonstrators at 3,000, a sharp drop from past weeks; Hamas-run health ministry says 445 people injured in clashes

(full article online)

Liberman credits IDF for smaller Gaza protest turnout


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas leader arrives at Gaza protests in show of support


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In a column published in _Haaretz_ last week, Gaza native Muhammad Shehada defended the demonstrations as a necessary response to Israel’s partial blockade, on which he blamed all of Gaza’s woes. His younger brother, he said, has participated in them almost daily. He himself is currently studying in Sweden but formerly worked for an anti-Israel “human rights” organization in Gaza. In short, he’s hardly an Israeli shill. Nevertheless, he noted that even Hamas believes Israel’s fire has been far from indiscriminate:
> 
> 
> "Despite the seemingly arbitrary live-fire and tear gas raining down on the protestors … Hamas believes the victims are carefully selected. “Israel knows who to wound, maim or kill,” a Hamas leader told me by phone. At least 10 young men, affiliated with Hamas and its Qassam brigades, have been shot while maintaining order at the protest."
> 
> 
> Hamas believes Israel is deploying facial recognition technologies besides the numerous war-drones that obliterate the sky above. The movement warned its members to keep their faces covered, and leave their phones at home.
> 
> This is what Israel has said all along. A report published last week by the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center (an organization founded by former Israeli intelligence officials that maintain close ties with the intelligence agencies) concluded that 80 percent of the people killed during the Gaza demonstrations–26 out of 32–were members of terrorist organizations. This conclusion wasn’t based on any secret intelligence; in each case, a terrorist organization publicly claimed the deceased as a member and buried him in the organization’s flag or published pictures of him in military dress holding a gun. This finding also explains why all but two of the dead were men between the ages of 19 and 45: Unlike the terrorists, actual civilians have largely kept their distance from the border fence.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas and Israel Agree: Slain Protesters Weren’t Civilians | Evelyn Gordon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 80 percent of the people killed during the Gaza demonstrations–26 out of 32–were members of terrorist organizations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mere membership does not matter. They have to be actively engaged in armed activity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Why do you post here when you know so little?

Civilians who take a direct part in such hostilities lose their protection against attack *for the time of their direct participation,* but not their civilian status. If they do not participate directly in hostilities or no longer do so (for example, if they are hors de combat ), they are protected against attacks.

https://www.icrc.org/eng/assets/files/other/law9_final.pdf​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In a column published in _Haaretz_ last week, Gaza native Muhammad Shehada defended the demonstrations as a necessary response to Israel’s partial blockade, on which he blamed all of Gaza’s woes. His younger brother, he said, has participated in them almost daily. He himself is currently studying in Sweden but formerly worked for an anti-Israel “human rights” organization in Gaza. In short, he’s hardly an Israeli shill. Nevertheless, he noted that even Hamas believes Israel’s fire has been far from indiscriminate:
> 
> 
> "Despite the seemingly arbitrary live-fire and tear gas raining down on the protestors … Hamas believes the victims are carefully selected. “Israel knows who to wound, maim or kill,” a Hamas leader told me by phone. At least 10 young men, affiliated with Hamas and its Qassam brigades, have been shot while maintaining order at the protest."
> 
> 
> Hamas believes Israel is deploying facial recognition technologies besides the numerous war-drones that obliterate the sky above. The movement warned its members to keep their faces covered, and leave their phones at home.
> 
> This is what Israel has said all along. A report published last week by the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center (an organization founded by former Israeli intelligence officials that maintain close ties with the intelligence agencies) concluded that 80 percent of the people killed during the Gaza demonstrations–26 out of 32–were members of terrorist organizations. This conclusion wasn’t based on any secret intelligence; in each case, a terrorist organization publicly claimed the deceased as a member and buried him in the organization’s flag or published pictures of him in military dress holding a gun. This finding also explains why all but two of the dead were men between the ages of 19 and 45: Unlike the terrorists, actual civilians have largely kept their distance from the border fence.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas and Israel Agree: Slain Protesters Weren’t Civilians | Evelyn Gordon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 80 percent of the people killed during the Gaza demonstrations–26 out of 32–were members of terrorist organizations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mere membership does not matter. They have to be actively engaged in armed activity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> Civilians who take a direct part in such hostilities lose their protection against attack *for the time of their direct participation,* but not their civilian status. If they do not participate directly in hostilities or no longer do so (for example, if they are hors de combat ), they are protected against attacks.
> 
> https://www.icrc.org/eng/assets/files/other/law9_final.pdf​
Click to expand...


I expected you to cut and paste what you don't understand. 

The stated goal of the *Tire Riots 2018* was pretty clear. Participation in those riots is a hostile act. It's a bit silly to cut and paste that which you don't understand. 

If you disagree, write an email to your mullah.


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> Rioters use a large slingshot to hurl stones during clashes with IDF troops on the Israel-Gaza border, April 20, 2018. Photo: Reuters / Mohammed Salem.
> 
> Two Palestinian rioters were killed in renewed unrest on the Israel-Gaza Strip border on Friday as a series of demonstrations in the Hamas-ruled coastal enclave reached its half-way mark.
> 
> Some rioters brought wire cutters to breach the border fence. Rioters also threw stones and burned tires.
> 
> As the crowd grew, Israeli soldiers called out warnings in Arabic over loudspeakers to individuals who approached the border fence.
> 
> Some rioters on Friday fitted kites with cans of flammable liquids which they hoped to fly across the border and start fires in Israel.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinian Rioters Seek to Breach Border Fence in Renewed Gaza Violence



I suppose this is another result of a listless, welfare dependent society. Without any reason to be working for a living, these layabouts have unlimited amounts of time to riot and burn tires.


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Hamas terrorists are showing their true colors, Israeli army says; April 20 was Hitler's birthday*






A kite marked with a swastika, flown across the Gaza border into Israel carrying a petrol bomb on April 20, 2018 (IDF spokesman)

(full article online)

Palestinians fly swastika kite with petrol bomb across Gaza border into Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

'Firebomb kites' breach Israeli territory


----------



## Sixties Fan

Photos from Friday's "March of Return" on the Gazan border show a terror cell, including several young teenagers, attempting to ignite Israel's security infrastructure, while a second cell waits and drags the flaming infrastructure towards the border fence.

(full article and photos online)

This is how Hamas uses children to harm Israel's border fence


----------



## Billo_Really

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'


What a fucking liar you are!  They are not "massing", they are "protesting" the inhuman and immoral treatment of the blockade.  They are unarmed; they are not attacking Israel; and they are being murdered in cold blood by Israeli snipers.

Fuck you and everyone that supports Israeli barbarism.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'
> 
> 
> 
> What a fucking liar you are!  They are not "massing", they are "protesting" the inhuman and immoral treatment of the blockade.  They are unarmed; they are not attacking Israel; and they are being murdered in cold blood by Israeli snipers.
> 
> Fuck you and everyone that supports Israeli barbarism.
Click to expand...


Not really fair, Chuckles.

Hamas does pay the armed, massing Islamic terrorists to take one for the gee-had.

It’s the pinnacle of young, Arab-Moslem terrorist manhood to die for a possible $3,000 check from Hamas.

Allah, Shirley is Akbar.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'
> 
> 
> 
> What a fucking liar you are!  They are not "massing", they are "protesting" the inhuman and immoral treatment of the blockade.  They are unarmed; they are not attacking Israel; and they are being murdered in cold blood by Israeli snipers.
> 
> Fuck you and everyone that supports Israeli barbarism.
Click to expand...

Tsk, Tsk, Tsk

Here is another Israel Basher who does not care about facts.

Never mind all the videos and photos the IDF has, showing Palestinians carrying weapons, explosives and coming to the Fences with the intention of entering (shall I say Invading) Israel and with the intent of killing Jews.

Nope, never mind any and all proofs of Hamas' intent of breaching the Fence.

Woodstock, Palestinian style.

No songs, no dancing, no pot.

Weapons, firebombs, and civilians being used to cover the Hamas men who are trained to attempt to breach the fence.

"They are unarmed, I say !!! "


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'
> 
> 
> 
> What a fucking liar you are!  They are not "massing", they are "protesting" the inhuman and immoral treatment of the blockade.  They are unarmed; they are not attacking Israel; and they are being murdered in cold blood by Israeli snipers.
> 
> Fuck you and everyone that supports Israeli barbarism.
Click to expand...

Would you like to explain how the "protests" went from 30,000 to 10,000 to 3,000 in three weeks time?

By May 14th, there may be something looking more like a dozen of them.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Not really fair, Chuckles.
> 
> Hamas does pay the armed, massing Islamic terrorists to take one for the gee-had.
> 
> It’s the pinnacle of young, Arab-Moslem terrorist manhood to die for a possible $3,000 check from Hamas.
> 
> Allah, Shirley is Akbar.


Why do you fuckers always try to remove Israel from the equation?  Nothing happens in a vacuum.  Israel is responsible for all the violence in that area.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Tsk, Tsk, Tsk
> 
> Here is another Israel Basher who does not care about facts.
> 
> Never mind all the videos and photos the IDF has, showing Palestinians carrying weapons, explosives and coming to the Fences with the intention of entering (shall I say Invading) Israel and with the intent of killing Jews.
> 
> Nope, never mind any and all proofs of Hamas' intent of breaching the Fence.
> 
> Woodstock, Palestinian style.
> 
> No songs, no dancing, no pot.
> 
> Weapons, firebombs, and civilians being used to cover the Hamas men who are trained to attempt to breach the fence.
> 
> "They are unarmed, I say !!! "


Why don't you produce those videos, asshole?  Let's see them!


----------



## rylah




----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Would you like to explain how the "protests" went from 30,000 to 10,000 to 3,000 in three weeks time?
> 
> By May 14th, there may be something looking more like a dozen of them.


Israeli snipers and their commitment to war crimes.


----------



## Billy_Kinetta

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really fair, Chuckles.
> 
> Hamas does pay the armed, massing Islamic terrorists to take one for the gee-had.
> 
> It’s the pinnacle of young, Arab-Moslem terrorist manhood to die for a possible $3,000 check from Hamas.
> 
> Allah, Shirley is Akbar.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you fuckers always try to remove Israel from the equation?  Nothing happens in a vacuum.  Israel is responsible for all the violence in that area.
Click to expand...


And the cow jumped over the moon.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would you like to explain how the "protests" went from 30,000 to 10,000 to 3,000 in three weeks time?
> 
> By May 14th, there may be something looking more like a dozen of them.
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli snipers and their commitment to war crimes.
Click to expand...

I posted videos and photos of the protests all over this thread.

Get off your ass and check for them yourself.


----------



## Billo_Really

Billy_Kinetta said:


> And the cow jumped over the moon.


Because it was being shot at by Israeli snipers.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> I posted videos and photos of the protests all over this thread.
> 
> Get off your ass and check for them yourself.


Post the link and I'll take a look.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I posted videos and photos of the protests all over this thread.
> 
> Get off your ass and check for them yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> Post the link and I'll take a look.
Click to expand...

I do not do the work for lazy bums.
You have 21 pages on this thread to look at.
You do not want to, tough.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> I do not do the work for lazy bums.
> You have 21 pages on this thread to look at.
> You do not want to, tough.


You know exactly where it is and you can't provide the link?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not do the work for lazy bums.
> You have 21 pages on this thread to look at.
> You do not want to, tough.
> 
> 
> 
> You know exactly where it is and you can't provide the link?
Click to expand...

You are a groupie for losers.
There are photos and videos all over the thread.  I do not have to give you anything your lazy ass does not wish to look for.
ONLY 21 pages and you are too lazy to check them for yourself.
Mommy and Daddy have to do the homework for you.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> You are a groupie for losers.
> There are photos and videos all over the thread.  I do not have to give you anything your lazy ass does not wish to look for.
> ONLY 21 pages and you are too lazy to check them for yourself.
> Mommy and Daddy have to do the homework for you.


You made the claim; you back it up!

If there are so many of these videos you claim, why is it none of them have made it on the national news?   Because everything we've been seeing on TV for the last 4 weeks, show innocent Palestinian's being shot in cold blood by Israeli snipers.


----------



## Billo_Really

Here's a Palestinian getting shot in the head by an Israeli sniper while his IDF buddies cheer on...


...proof Israeli's are inhuman pieces of shit!


----------



## Billo_Really

More Israeli violence towards unarmed Palestinians...


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> More Israeli violence towards unarmed Palestinians...



I think it’s foolish to cut and paste a YouTube video as proof of anything. These selectively edited clips, especially coming from AlJazeera, PressTV and Pallywood Studios have an obvious agenda. 

With regard to the AlJazeera video, I believe Hamas only pays a mere $500 for non-lethal wounds.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are a groupie for losers.
> There are photos and videos all over the thread.  I do not have to give you anything your lazy ass does not wish to look for.
> ONLY 21 pages and you are too lazy to check them for yourself.
> Mommy and Daddy have to do the homework for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You made the claim; you back it up!
> 
> If there are so many of these videos you claim, why is it none of them have made it on the national news?   Because everything we've been seeing on TV for the last 4 weeks, show innocent Palestinian's being shot in cold blood by Israeli snipers.
Click to expand...


Very melodramatic but not true.


----------



## Sixties Fan

This past Friday Hamas terrorists sent several flying firebombs, using kites, over the Israel-Gaza fence, hoping to set fire to nearby Israeli communities and fields. Instead of using their creativity to help humankind, they make kite bombs to kill and injure innocent Israelis. 

These acts of terror ,in addition to the mass march on the border fence, are really just a distraction. They are used by Hamas to hide the acts of sabotage they are trying to inclict upon the border fence to allow for more serious terror acts.

(full article, tweets and videos online)

Latest Gaza Border Terror Hamas Now Using Kite Bombs to Bomb Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

The notes read: "Zionists, there is no room for you in the land of Palestine. Go back to the place you came from. Don't respond (i.e., listen) to your leaders. They send you to death or to captivity. Al-Quds is the capital of Palestine."

Al-Quds is the Arabic name for Jerusalem.

The notes come in response to leaflets distributed by the IDF warning Gazans not to listen to Hamas, and to keep away from the Gaza-Israel border and avoid participating in terror activities.

Prior to the founding of the State of Israel, Jews around the world were told by their neighbors, "Jews, go back to Palestine!"

(full article online)

'Zionists, go back to where you came from'


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> I think it’s foolish to cut and paste a YouTube video as proof of anything. These selectively edited clips, especially coming from AlJazeera, PressTV and Pallywood Studios have an obvious agenda.
> 
> With regard to the AlJazeera video, I believe Hamas only pays a mere $500 for non-lethal wounds.


What could you possibly see (or say), that would justify what you see in the video?


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Very melodramatic but not true.


Prove it!


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it’s foolish to cut and paste a YouTube video as proof of anything. These selectively edited clips, especially coming from AlJazeera, PressTV and Pallywood Studios have an obvious agenda.
> 
> With regard to the AlJazeera video, I believe Hamas only pays a mere $500 for non-lethal wounds.
> 
> 
> 
> What could you possibly see (or say), that would justify what you see in the video?
Click to expand...


I can't justify your being so gullible.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> I can't justify your being so gullible.


You can't justify what you see in those videos.  All you can muster, are bullshit innuendos.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very melodramatic but not true.
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it!
Click to expand...


I did. Prove I didn't. 

Thank you. 

It is not up to me to prove a negative.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't justify your being so gullible.
> 
> 
> 
> You can't justify what you see in those videos.  All you can muster, are bullshit innuendos.
Click to expand...


I can't justify your cutting and pasting of YouTube videos that are impossible to verify as accurate of authentic . 

Believe what you want. Just don't expect others to accept cut and paste YouTube videos as meaningful.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> More Israeli violence towards unarmed Palestinians...



Your YouTube video includes a scene from a rehearsed Pallywood Studios acting class.



I know, right? You feel silly for making such melodramatic claims in support of fake Pallywood Studios nonsense.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The introductory sentence should already clue you in that this video is an own-goal.

Palestinian protesters are adopting new *non-violent *resistance methods in Gaza in the continuing rallies of the #GreatReturnMarch. Palestinians react to Israeli terror and bloodshed with *rocks and fire.*

Let’s break down what we just saw.


An admission that they fly kites with fire that have “sparked several fires.” Of course, they are not being truthful by suggesting the fires have only been “in the region where the Israeli soldiers are stationed” – they have broken out in southern Israel and caused real damage. Also, the video does not mention that some of these kites have swastikas painted on them.


An admission that they are deliberately damaging our security fence.


An admission they employ tactics to make it hard for our snipers to hit their targets, such as mirrors and burning tires. Remember, our snipers are not necessarily trying to kill those engaged in violence, damaging the security fence or even breaching the border, but rather shoot them in the legs or otherwise incapacitate them. Yet the palestinians are doing everything in their power to make it hard, increasing the chances of fatalities on their side. This also could explain how those with “Press” marked on their chests have been killed or injured.

(full article online)

Palestinians Score Own Goal With Latest Propaganda Video


----------



## Sixties Fan

When people are like “I hold Israel to higher standards cause it’s mine” I roll my eyes so hard they move out the back of my head. Then I guess this means you love Israel to death then, because MORALITY PUTS YOU AT A MILITARY DISADVANTAGE!!! Israel has to juggle being “the most moral army in the world” and doing what it takes to ward off invaders and sometimes it’s mutually exclusive. I would rather us be slightly immoral and alive  and have a state than moral and dead thankyouverymuch!! And guess what? Most of those virtue signallers – and that’s exactly what they are (I know cause I used to be one before I moved here) don’t have to deal with the consequences of them being sitting ducks. Israelis do, and thousands have died as a result of actions to prevent civilian casualties, especially given that Palestinian militants frequently dress as civilians to fool us (and the world) into thinking they are.

So really, enough about Israel’s morality and let her do what she needs to do (or thinks she needs to do at the time). Like seriously, who do you think you are that you know better than a trained IDF soldier?? Soldiers from all nations make mistakes and kill the wrong people all the time, (and Israel does it a lot less than average, I mean 17 dead out of a swarm of 30,000, many of whom were armed, under a thick cloud of tire smoke is no less than extremely impressive) and it’s hard to make heat of the moment decisions under such stressful situations – but it’s better than having no soldiers at all! Nobody is perfect. Yes, every death is a tragedy. But I have far less sympathy for someone who tries to invade the Israeli border among those with weapons, blaming Israel for stuff their own elected Hamas government is at fault for, than those who are sitting in their houses minding their own business. There, I said it. Maybe this makes me a bad person, I don’t care, but at least I’m an alive bad person.

(full article online)

An Open Letter From An Israeli About Friday’s “Atrocities”


----------



## Sixties Fan

Children used as central props in a Hamas Rally 

The Palestinian National Liberation Movement (Fatah) on Sunday protested an attack by Hamas and its armed forces on the funeral tent of Mohammed Ayoub, the 14-year-old Gazan boy who was killed at the border riots last Friday, Ma’an reported.

A press statement issued by the Fatah Information, Culture and Intellectuals Committee, said that the dismantling of the tent and shooting inside it and the intimidation of the citizens and the attack on the leadership of Fatah in the northern Gaza Strip and wounding them was a departure from national values.”

(full article online)

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/eye...teenager-wounding-fatah-officials/2018/04/22/


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ " March of Return" now 7 days a week, not only on Fridays ]


IDF forces stationed along the Israel-Gaza border opened fire Sunday on several terrorists at various locations along the frontier while they attempted to tear openings in the security fence separating Israel from the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip.

According to Palestinian Authority media outlets, three Gazans were wounded Sunday after they approached the Israeli border security fence and attempted to damage it.

Israeli security personnel opened fire on the would-be infiltrators, wounding three.

(full article online)

3 wounded after IDF opens fire on infiltrators from Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Palestinians: Helping to make a worse world in which we live in.  ]
[ Palestinian Inventions ]

A firebomb kite attack launched by Hamas supporters in the northern Gaza town of Khan Younis penetrated southern Israel on Sunday, landing in open farmland in the afternoon hours.

(full article online)

Another Firebomb Kite from Gaza Torches Farmland in Southern Israel


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> I did. Prove I didn't.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> It is not up to me to prove a negative.


But you didn't state a negative.  You said what we've been seeing on TV for the last 4 weeks wasn't true.  All you have to do, is post a video that is true.

Which you haven't and you know you can't.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> I can't justify your cutting and pasting of YouTube videos that are impossible to verify as accurate of authentic .
> 
> Believe what you want. Just don't expect others to accept cut and paste YouTube videos as meaningful.


What is your definition of authenticity?

BTW, ad hominems are not valid rebuttals.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Your YouTube video includes a scene from a rehearsed Pallywood Studios acting class.
> 
> 
> 
> I know, right? You feel silly for making such melodramatic claims in support of fake Pallywood Studios nonsense.


That video doesn't prove anything.  And why was it dated "1-4-18", when we are talking about the last 4 weeks?

These videos match what is being said from several different media outlets, some of whom are sympathetic to Israel.  They also match what the IDF has been saying in personal interviews.  The videos show a complete lack of empathy from the Israeli's towards the Palestinian protesters, which match every one of your own posts.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


>


Shooting an unarmed protester in the head is not very peaceful, either.


----------



## Billo_Really

Maintaining a brutal and immoral occupation for the last 50 years, is not peaceful.

Enforcing a blockade for the last 12 years (because you didn't like the results of an election), is not very peaceful.

Torturing Palestinian children in custody, is not very peaceful.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shooting an unarmed protester in the head is not very peaceful, either.
Click to expand...

What was that unarmed protester attempting to do?
What were all of the other "unarmed protesters" who got shot doing when they got injured or killed by the IDF.

Give us your report "Live" from Gaza.
After all, you were there.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> What was that unarmed protester attempting to do?


Protesting.



Sixties Fan said:


> What were all of the other "unarmed protesters" who got shot doing when they got injured or killed by the IDF.


Just standing there.



Sixties Fan said:


> Give us your report "Live" from Gaza.
> After all, you were there.



Here you go, I'm flying above the crowd...


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Maintaining a brutal and immoral occupation for the last 50 years, is not peaceful.
> 
> Enforcing a blockade for the last 12 years (because you didn't like the results of an election), is not very peaceful.
> 
> Torturing Palestinian children in custody, is not very peaceful.


Those who occupied the land for 1300 before 1948 were the Muslim Arabs, and the Ottoman Turks.  The Jewish People are the indigenous ones on the land, and not its occupiers.  You will find proof of that in the Quran itself.  And any Christian historical book or record will also will tell you that.

Israel left Gaza in 2005, for the people there to build their own State.
The people in Gaza chose to fire rockets into Israel.
That is when the blockade had to be implemented.

Israel does not torture children. Never has:

Upon looking more thoroughly through the PDO website, and reading the entire letter their office sent to the Israel Justice Ministry about such detention methods, we learned that they were only charging that some *Israelis *arrested in the middle of the night spent *a number of hours* in outdoor (open-air) jails until they were taken to the court early in the morning.  The PDO statement further clarifies that this _practice _(which was recently ended) in general – under which detainees sometimes waited in outdoor holding cells for several hours – *had existed for a number of months*.

Again, there is no mention of Palestinian children.

Following our communication with Indy editors, they minimally revised the passage which falsely claimed that prisoners were kept “for months” in “outdoor cages”, as they evidently realized that the word months only signified the length of time the practice had been going on.

However, upon further investigation by Presspecitva and CiF Watch, it increasingly appears likely that the entire Indy story is untrue. We weren’t able to find any evidence that anyone even alleged that Palestinian children were kept in these outdoor facilities (“caged”), or “tortured”, during transit to court.

In addition to the fact that the Israel Public Defender’s Office doesn’t mention Palestinian children in any context, we checked with the Israel Prison Service, whose spokesperson (Sivan Weizman) told us quite clearly that the entire PDO complaint submitted to the Justice Ministry only refers to _Israeli_ prisoners (some of whom were evidently teens) and NOT Palestinians, yet alone Palestinian kids. Weizman stated emphatically that this had nothing to do whatsoever with Palestinian children, and that the prisoners in question were common criminals, not suspects being held for security (terrorist) offenses.

Finally, it’s quite telling that neither the Guardian nor other British and U.S. news outlets – which typically are not shy about smearing Israel with unsubstantiated allegations – have jumped on the story.  If there was any credible evidence that Israel was “torturing” kids, you’d think the usual media suspects would be all over it.

(full article online)

Indy’s wild claim that Israel ‘tortures’ Palestinian kids continues to unravel

-----------
How about the Arab leaders, and UNWRA, stopping their education of Arab children in order for them to attack Israeli civilians and soldiers?  
Would not that be a good start?
Wouldn't that allow the children to grow up in a normal way rather than being influenced in order to follow the Muslim rule of not allowing non Muslims to have land once conquered by Islam?

Israel, and Gaza and Judea and Samaria and TranJordan is ALL Jewish Homeland.
You will not see Jews or Israel demanding Jordan back, or teaching their children to attack Jordanians in order to make them give back the land which truly belongs to the Jewish People and not to one Arab clan (The Hashemites)  which got kicked out of the Arabian Peninsula by another Arab Clan from Yemen (the Saudis) around 1915, now DO YOU?



Clearly, you are a very gullible person, who chooses to believe anything and everything against Israel.  Because it is a Jewish State, or just because......it does not matter.


A PEACEFUL  march, does not include throwing rocks, bringing explosives, burning tires, being armed, attempting to destroy a security fence, flying kites into Israel with the intent of setting crops and grass, or buildings on fire.

What they have been doing is exactly the opposite.

And being exactly the opposite of PEACEFUL protest, any other country would have put an end to it the very first week, and in any way they saw fit to do so.  And no one, including the UN, and including you, would have faulted that country from stopping  invaders to come and harm their nation.


Are you going to insist in the things you wish to believe in, or are you going to try to educate yourself as to what the facts are?


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your YouTube video includes a scene from a rehearsed Pallywood Studios acting class.
> 
> 
> 
> I know, right? You feel silly for making such melodramatic claims in support of fake Pallywood Studios nonsense.
> 
> 
> 
> That video doesn't prove anything.  And why was it dated "1-4-18", when we are talking about the last 4 weeks?
> 
> These videos match what is being said from several different media outlets, some of whom are sympathetic to Israel.  They also match what the IDF has been saying in personal interviews.  The videos show a complete lack of empathy from the Israeli's towards the Palestinian protesters, which match every one of your own posts.
Click to expand...


I think its hilarious that you're trying to defend the YouTube videos you cut and pasted, trying to represent them as something other than Pallywood Production scams.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shooting an unarmed protester in the head is not very peaceful, either.
Click to expand...


So much noise about "unarmed protesters" yet the apologists for islamic terrorists sidestep the issue of "unarmed protesters" attacking with Molotov cocktails and explisives. 

Could it be that a reality based worldview is not the language you speak at home?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Lie du jour: the "internationally banned"  "exploding bullet" used by Israeli snipers to deliver maximum pain to the pure, unarmed civilians amassing on the Gaza border.

Haitham Khatib, a "photographer" from Ramallah writes:

_Every single Palestinian is becoming a guinea pig and is targeted to bear in his flesh the very embodiment of the Illegal Israeli Occupation.
Soon,butterfly bullets will be part of Palestinian DNA.
But at the same time,butterflies are the living embodiment of FREEDOM and BEAUTY.
What doesn't kill us will make us stronger.
FOREVER._

He lies.




Exploding bullets or close-range hog hunting ammo?

These bullets were cut and pasted directly from an ammunition advertisement,






They aren't a secret Israeli weapon.  The  bullets were specifically developed for close range hog hunting.  Not internationally banned.  Widely available on the web.  And there is zero evidence that Israel uses close range hog-hunting ammo in its munitions.

(full article online)

Pro-Israel Bay Bloggers: Palestinian Lies go whole hog


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Those who occupied the land for 1300 before 1948 were the Muslim Arabs, and the Ottoman Turks.  The Jewish People are the indigenous ones on the land, and not its occupiers.  You will find proof of that in the Quran itself.  And any Christian historical book or record will also will tell you that.


There isn't a single country on this planet that agrees with you.  And over 200 UN resolutions say you are full of shit.  Palestinian-Jews and Palestinian-Arabs have been living there for centuries.  It wasn't until the asshole Zionists showing up did all the violence start.



Sixties Fan said:


> Israel left Gaza in 2005, for the people there to build their own State.


You're so full of shit!  How can they build their own state if Israel won't allow basic building materials into the area?



Sixties Fan said:


> The people in Gaza chose to fire rockets into Israel.


Rockets didn't start until 34 years after the occupation began.  And how many Israeli's did those rockets kill?  28?  That's not a threat, that's a nuisance.  And how many missiles did Israel send Gaza's way?  



Sixties Fan said:


> That is when the blockade had to be implemented.


Wrong!  The blockade started in 2006; right after the election.



Sixties Fan said:


> Israel does not torture children. Never has:
> 
> Upon looking more thoroughly through the PDO website, and reading the entire letter their office sent to the Israel Justice Ministry about such detention methods, we learned that they were only charging that some *Israelis *arrested in the middle of the night spent *a number of hours* in outdoor (open-air) jails until they were taken to the court early in the morning.  The PDO statement further clarifies that this _practice _(which was recently ended) in general – under which detainees sometimes waited in outdoor holding cells for several hours – *had existed for a number of months*.
> 
> Again, there is no mention of Palestinian children.
> 
> Following our communication with Indy editors, they minimally revised the passage which falsely claimed that prisoners were kept “for months” in “outdoor cages”, as they evidently realized that the word months only signified the length of time the practice had been going on.
> 
> However, upon further investigation by Presspecitva and CiF Watch, it increasingly appears likely that the entire Indy story is untrue. We weren’t able to find any evidence that anyone even alleged that Palestinian children were kept in these outdoor facilities (“caged”), or “tortured”, during transit to court.
> 
> In addition to the fact that the Israel Public Defender’s Office doesn’t mention Palestinian children in any context, we checked with the Israel Prison Service, whose spokesperson (Sivan Weizman) told us quite clearly that the entire PDO complaint submitted to the Justice Ministry only refers to _Israeli_ prisoners (some of whom were evidently teens) and NOT Palestinians, yet alone Palestinian kids. Weizman stated emphatically that this had nothing to do whatsoever with Palestinian children, and that the prisoners in question were common criminals, not suspects being held for security (terrorist) offenses.
> 
> Finally, it’s quite telling that neither the Guardian nor other British and U.S. news outlets – which typically are not shy about smearing Israel with unsubstantiated allegations – have jumped on the story.  If there was any credible evidence that Israel was “torturing” kids, you’d think the usual media suspects would be all over it.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Indy’s wild claim that Israel ‘tortures’ Palestinian kids continues to unravel
> 
> -----------


Bullshit!

*Israel Tortures Palestinian Children, Amnesty Report Says*

_Israel engaged in extensive human rights violations in 2016, including detaining or continuing to imprison thousands of Palestinians without charges or trial, torturing many of those held in custody, promoting illegal settlements in the West Bank and severely hampering the movement of Palestinians, according to the Amnesty International Annual Report, published on Wednesday.

The report found that among those tortured and detained under administrative orders were also children. Methods of torture included beatings, painful shackling and sleep deprivation. Among 110 Palestinians killed last year by Israeli forces, the report charged, some posed no threat to life and thus were shot unlawfully._​


Sixties Fan said:


> How about the Arab leaders, and UNWRA, stopping their education of Arab children in order for them to attack Israeli civilians and soldiers?
> Would not that be a good start?
> Wouldn't that allow the children to grow up in a normal way rather than being influenced in order to follow the Muslim rule of not allowing non Muslims to have land once conquered by Islam?


Palestinians have every right in the world to attack and resist an occupational force.



Sixties Fan said:


> Israel, and Gaza and Judea and Samaria and TranJordan is ALL Jewish Homeland.
> You will not see Jews or Israel demanding Jordan back, or teaching their children to attack Jordanians in order to make them give back the land which truly belongs to the Jewish People and not to one Arab clan (The Hashemites)  which got kicked out of the Arabian Peninsula by another Arab Clan from Yemen (the Saudis) around 1915, now DO YOU?


You can't move into an area and automatically have more land rights than the people already living there.




Sixties Fan said:


> Clearly, you are a very gullible person, who chooses to believe anything and everything against Israel.  Because it is a Jewish State, or just because......it does not matter.


This has nothing to do with Judaism.  This is about international law, which Israel has been in violation of for the last half century.



Sixties Fan said:


> A PEACEFUL  march, does not include throwing rocks, bringing explosives, burning tires, being armed, attempting to destroy a security fence, flying kites into Israel with the intent of setting crops and grass, or buildings on fire.


Why can't they burn a fucking tire on their own fucking property?  And just maybe they are throwing rocks in response to you fuckers shooting their children in the head?



Sixties Fan said:


> What they have been doing is exactly the opposite.
> 
> And being exactly the opposite of PEACEFUL protest, any other country would have put an end to it the very first week, and in any way they saw fit to do so.  And no one, including the UN, and including you, would have faulted that country from stopping  invaders to come and harm their nation.


Except for the fact that they weren't harming or invading your nation.  They were protesting your illegal, immoral and inhuman blockade.  You fuckers are too pussy to take ownership over the shit things you do.



Sixties Fan said:


> Are you going to insist in the things you wish to believe in, or are you going to try to educate yourself as to what the facts are?


I have educated myself regarding the facts around Israel.  That's how I know Zionists are fucking assholes!  You can't get a more object voice on this conflict more than me.  This conflict doesn't affect my daily life in any way.  I couldn't give a shit about Israel or its citizens.  The same goes the Pals to.  But I do call things as I see them and what I see, is that Israel is the bad guy.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> I think its hilarious that you're trying to defend the YouTube videos you cut and pasted, trying to represent them as something other than Pallywood Production scams.


I think its more funny you can't prove what you claim.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> So much noise about "unarmed protesters" yet the apologists for islamic terrorists sidestep the issue of "unarmed protesters" attacking with Molotov cocktails and explisives.
> 
> Could it be that a reality based worldview is not the language you speak at home?


Palestinians are not terrorists.  Pieces of shit Israeli snipers and the stupid c*nts that defend them are.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those who occupied the land for 1300 before 1948 were the Muslim Arabs, and the Ottoman Turks.  The Jewish People are the indigenous ones on the land, and not its occupiers.  You will find proof of that in the Quran itself.  And any Christian historical book or record will also will tell you that.
> 
> 
> 
> There isn't a single country on this planet that agrees with you.  And over 200 UN resolutions say you are full of shit.  Palestinian-Jews and Palestinian-Arabs have been living there for centuries.  It wasn't until the asshole Zionists showing up did all the violence start.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel left Gaza in 2005, for the people there to build their own State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're so full of shit!  How can they build their own state if Israel won't allow basic building materials into the area?
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The people in Gaza chose to fire rockets into Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rockets didn't start until 34 years after the occupation began.  And how many Israeli's did those rockets kill?  28?  That's not a threat, that's a nuisance.  And how many missiles did Israel send Gaza's way?
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is when the blockade had to be implemented.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong!  The blockade started in 2006; right after the election.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does not torture children. Never has:
> 
> Upon looking more thoroughly through the PDO website, and reading the entire letter their office sent to the Israel Justice Ministry about such detention methods, we learned that they were only charging that some *Israelis *arrested in the middle of the night spent *a number of hours* in outdoor (open-air) jails until they were taken to the court early in the morning.  The PDO statement further clarifies that this _practice _(which was recently ended) in general – under which detainees sometimes waited in outdoor holding cells for several hours – *had existed for a number of months*.
> 
> Again, there is no mention of Palestinian children.
> 
> Following our communication with Indy editors, they minimally revised the passage which falsely claimed that prisoners were kept “for months” in “outdoor cages”, as they evidently realized that the word months only signified the length of time the practice had been going on.
> 
> However, upon further investigation by Presspecitva and CiF Watch, it increasingly appears likely that the entire Indy story is untrue. We weren’t able to find any evidence that anyone even alleged that Palestinian children were kept in these outdoor facilities (“caged”), or “tortured”, during transit to court.
> 
> In addition to the fact that the Israel Public Defender’s Office doesn’t mention Palestinian children in any context, we checked with the Israel Prison Service, whose spokesperson (Sivan Weizman) told us quite clearly that the entire PDO complaint submitted to the Justice Ministry only refers to _Israeli_ prisoners (some of whom were evidently teens) and NOT Palestinians, yet alone Palestinian kids. Weizman stated emphatically that this had nothing to do whatsoever with Palestinian children, and that the prisoners in question were common criminals, not suspects being held for security (terrorist) offenses.
> 
> Finally, it’s quite telling that neither the Guardian nor other British and U.S. news outlets – which typically are not shy about smearing Israel with unsubstantiated allegations – have jumped on the story.  If there was any credible evidence that Israel was “torturing” kids, you’d think the usual media suspects would be all over it.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Indy’s wild claim that Israel ‘tortures’ Palestinian kids continues to unravel
> 
> -----------
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit!
> 
> *Israel Tortures Palestinian Children, Amnesty Report Says*
> 
> _Israel engaged in extensive human rights violations in 2016, including detaining or continuing to imprison thousands of Palestinians without charges or trial, torturing many of those held in custody, promoting illegal settlements in the West Bank and severely hampering the movement of Palestinians, according to the Amnesty International Annual Report, published on Wednesday.
> 
> The report found that among those tortured and detained under administrative orders were also children. Methods of torture included beatings, painful shackling and sleep deprivation. Among 110 Palestinians killed last year by Israeli forces, the report charged, some posed no threat to life and thus were shot unlawfully._​
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about the Arab leaders, and UNWRA, stopping their education of Arab children in order for them to attack Israeli civilians and soldiers?
> Would not that be a good start?
> Wouldn't that allow the children to grow up in a normal way rather than being influenced in order to follow the Muslim rule of not allowing non Muslims to have land once conquered by Islam?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians have every right in the world to attack and resist an occupational force.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel, and Gaza and Judea and Samaria and TranJordan is ALL Jewish Homeland.
> You will not see Jews or Israel demanding Jordan back, or teaching their children to attack Jordanians in order to make them give back the land which truly belongs to the Jewish People and not to one Arab clan (The Hashemites)  which got kicked out of the Arabian Peninsula by another Arab Clan from Yemen (the Saudis) around 1915, now DO YOU?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can't move into an area and automatically have more land rights than the people already living there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Clearly, you are a very gullible person, who chooses to believe anything and everything against Israel.  Because it is a Jewish State, or just because......it does not matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This has nothing to do with Judaism.  This is about international law, which Israel has been in violation of for the last half century.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> A PEACEFUL  march, does not include throwing rocks, bringing explosives, burning tires, being armed, attempting to destroy a security fence, flying kites into Israel with the intent of setting crops and grass, or buildings on fire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why can't they burn a fucking tire on their own fucking property?  And just maybe they are throwing rocks in response to you fuckers shooting their children in the head?
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What they have been doing is exactly the opposite.
> 
> And being exactly the opposite of PEACEFUL protest, any other country would have put an end to it the very first week, and in any way they saw fit to do so.  And no one, including the UN, and including you, would have faulted that country from stopping  invaders to come and harm their nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Except for the fact that they weren't harming or invading your nation.  They were protesting your illegal, immoral and inhuman blockade.  You fuckers are too pussy to take ownership over the shit things you do.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you going to insist in the things you wish to believe in, or are you going to try to educate yourself as to what the facts are?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have educated myself regarding the facts around Israel.  That's how I know Zionists are fucking assholes!  You can't get a more object voice on this conflict more than me.  This conflict doesn't affect my daily life in any way.  I couldn't give a shit about Israel or its citizens.  The same goes the Pals to.  But I do call things as I see them and what I see, is that Israel is the bad guy.
Click to expand...


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> I have educated myself regarding the facts around Israel.  That's how I know Zionists are fucking assholes!  You can't get a more object voice on this conflict more than me.  This conflict doesn't affect my daily life in any way.  I couldn't give a shit about Israel or its citizens.  The same goes the Pals to.  But I do call things as I see them and what I see, is that Israel is the bad guy.



What education?
A diploma to curse every sentence to make a point? 

Sure professor.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> You're so full of shit!  How can they build their own state if Israel won't allow basic building materials into the area?



.

No building materials... but enough to develop a system of tunnels 







and build luxurious villas and palaces in Gaza:






Who said they ever wanted their own state?
They'd simply annex it to Syria or Jordan not have any responsibility on their hands, like they tried from the beginning. Could've already built it decades ago. But all they want is Jews gone with no other plan or vision.

They call it "honor"...


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> Rockets didn't start until 34 years after the occupation began.  And how many Israeli's did those rockets kill?  28?  That's not a threat, that's a nuisance.  And how many missiles did Israel send Gaza's way?



There were no rockets against Egyptian occupation, how so?

You think 28 dead is not a threat,
We think 2 is enough to go to war.

You think sending children to explode and murder civilians is fine, 
we think children are our most precious gift to invest billions to protect.

We value our life, You value suicidal maniacs.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> Wrong!  The blockade started in 2006; right after the election.








The *blockade of the Gaza Strip* refers to a land, air, and sea blockade on the Gaza Strip by Israel and Egypt* from 2007 to present.* One year after the 2005 disengagement from the Gaza Strip by Israel, Hamas won the Palestinian legislative election. Israel and the Quartet on the Middle East imposed sanctions against the Palestinian Authority. The stated reason was that Hamas would not agree to the conditions for continued aid: to recognize Israel, disavow violent actions, and accept the previous agreements between Israel and the PA.[1]

In March 2007, Hamas and Fatah formed the unity government headed by Ismail Haniya. Shortly after, in June, Hamas took control of the Gaza Strip during the Battle of Gaza.[2] Hamas seized government institutions and replaced Fatah and other government officials with Hamas members.[3] Following the takeover, Egypt and Israel largely closed their border crossings with Gaza, on the grounds that Fatah had fled the Strip and was no longer able to provide security on the Palestinian side.[4] Egypt was worried that Hamas control over Gaza would increase Iranian influence. Aboul Gheit explained that opening the Rafah border crossing would undermine the legitimacy of the Palestinian Authority.[5]
Blockade of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> Bullshit!
> 
> *Israel Tortures Palestinian Children, Amnesty Report Says*
> 
> _Israel engaged in extensive human rights violations in 2016, including detaining or continuing to imprison thousands of Palestinians without charges or trial, torturing many of those held in custody, promoting illegal settlements in the West Bank and severely hampering the movement of Palestinians, according to the Amnesty International Annual Report, published on Wednesday.
> 
> The report found that among those tortured and detained under administrative orders were also children. Methods of torture included beatings, painful shackling and sleep deprivation. Among 110 Palestinians killed last year by Israeli forces, the report charged, some posed no threat to life and thus were shot unlawfully._​



Exactly "BULLSHIT!" 

For Amnesty if a cat farted in Gaza it's enough to call it an_ "Israeli war crime"._
But if Hamas drags the dismembered bodies of Gazans on the streets - it"s _"elections campaign"_


----------



## fncceo

Billo_Really said:


> how many Israeli's did those rockets kill? 28? That's not a threat, that's a nuisance.



Not to their families.

For the record, how many dead Jews does it take to get an upgrade from nuisance to threat?


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> Palestinians have every right in the world to attack and resist an occupational force.


Using Your logic...
They Arabs ARE the occupation force, who joined British invasion and helped them take control.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> You can't move into an area and automatically have more land rights than the people already living there.



I agree,  
Arabs might as well demand Spain...we know how that goes.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> This has nothing to do with Judaism.  This is about international law, which Israel has been in violation of for the last half century.



Sharia is not international law.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> Why can't they burn a fucking tire on their own fucking property?  And just maybe they are throwing rocks in response to you fuckers shooting their children in the head?



They can burn tires 300m from the border.
For the simple reason that at this distance if they want to make an explosion - they'll endanger only their own.

Q. Maybe they get shot because they're taught that next to killing Jews, death is the biggest achievement?


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> Except for the fact that they weren't harming or invading your nation.  They were protesting your illegal, immoral and inhuman blockade.  You fuckers are too pussy to take ownership over the shit things you do.



Sure they were, and so declared openly.
Bringing more ice cream won't help them hide the guns.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> There isn't a single country on this planet that agrees with you.  And over 200 UN resolutions say you are full of shit.  Palestinian-Jews and Palestinian-Arabs have been living there for centuries.  It wasn't until the asshole Zionists showing up did all the violence start.





*Arabs massacred their Jewish neighbors in Palestine long before any Zionist ever shot a bullet.*

Written by a Palestinian Jew of Safed about the Arab massacres of 1834:

_"Now I have come to announce the large losses and afflictions that have been created in Israel in four countries, ie Jerusalem,and Hebron and the Upper Galilee, namely Safed. And the lower Galilee, namely the city of Tabriya. By the hands of the plunderers and looters that rose in the country. And they come only upon the Jews...
*On Sunday, eight days in the month of Sivan, the looters, inhabitants of the villages joined with the inhabitants of the cities. They had weapons of war and shields and fell upon all the Jews and stripped their clothes from men and women. They expelled them naked from the city, and plundered all their property...
The remnants were coerced and raped whether men or women. Tore all the Torah scrolls, and their talit and tefilin and the city was abandoned... This was so for 33 days, so was done in the city of Safed, so was done in other towns."*_

Periodicals of people of Israel in Eretz Israel - Menachem Mendel ben- Aaaron 1800-1873
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's another fact for You to deal with:
The initial steps in Political Zionism pretty much started as a response to Arab pogroms in Syria-Palestine. Long before a Zionist ever shot a bullet.

The only difference between yesterdays pogroms and today, is that Jews have a military to protect themselves. And the Swastika waved at Israel from Gaza with the open calls to go to die and murder Jews - only shows the legitimacy of that call until today.


----------



## Shusha

fncceo said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> how many Israeli's did those rockets kill? 28? That's not a threat, that's a nuisance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not to their families.
> 
> For the record, how many dead Jews does it take to get an upgrade from nuisance to threat?
Click to expand...


Interesting how 28 people killed by rockets is a "nuisance" while 28 people killed by Israeli sniper fire is genocide. 

And this from the cough cough most objective person on this board.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong!  The blockade started in 2006; right after the election.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The *blockade of the Gaza Strip* refers to a land, air, and sea blockade on the Gaza Strip by Israel and Egypt* from 2007 to present.* One year after the 2005 disengagement from the Gaza Strip by Israel, Hamas won the Palestinian legislative election. Israel and the Quartet on the Middle East imposed sanctions against the Palestinian Authority. The stated reason was that Hamas would not agree to the conditions for continued aid: to recognize Israel, disavow violent actions, and accept the previous agreements between Israel and the PA.[1]
> 
> In March 2007, Hamas and Fatah formed the unity government headed by Ismail Haniya. Shortly after, in June, Hamas took control of the Gaza Strip during the Battle of Gaza.[2] Hamas seized government institutions and replaced Fatah and other government officials with Hamas members.[3] Following the takeover, Egypt and Israel largely closed their border crossings with Gaza, on the grounds that Fatah had fled the Strip and was no longer able to provide security on the Palestinian side.[4] Egypt was worried that Hamas control over Gaza would increase Iranian influence. Aboul Gheit explained that opening the Rafah border crossing would undermine the legitimacy of the Palestinian Authority.[5]
> Blockade of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia
Click to expand...

But the Palestinians have to accept the assholes that the Israelis elect.


----------



## fncceo

P F Tinmore said:


> But the Palestinians have to accept the assholes that the Israelis elect.



Or ... they could give up their insane vendetta against the Jews and worry about their own arsehole politicians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

fncceo said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> But the Palestinians have to accept the assholes that the Israelis elect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or ... they could give up their insane vendetta against the Jews and worry about their own arsehole politicians.
Click to expand...

It has nothing to do with Jews.


----------



## fncceo

P F Tinmore said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> But the Palestinians have to accept the assholes that the Israelis elect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or ... they could give up their insane vendetta against the Jews and worry about their own arsehole politicians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It has nothing to do with Jews.
Click to expand...


Uh huh ...


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> But the Palestinians have to accept the assholes that the Israelis elect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or ... they could give up their insane vendetta against the Jews and worry about their own arsehole politicians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It has nothing to do with Jews.
Click to expand...


And I _"don't see"  _the Swastika in Your yard either... uh hum


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Independent (UK) adds to the long list of deprivations that Gazans are forced to live through.

For thirteen long years, the desperate Gazans have been unable to directly attack Israeli soldiers.

It is a sad fact that Western media cannot find any Gazans who have starved under Israel's brutal siege. They cannot blame Israel for withholding fuel or electricity or medicines - that is the Palestinian Authority that does that. They cannot blame Israel for withholding salaries for workers - that is both Hamas and the PA, depending on the circumstances.

But, dammit, they can blame Israel for withdrawing Jews from Gaza, which makes it so much harder for Palestinians to attack them! It is a truly awful feeling, not being able to attack Jews directly, and it causes a "uniquely desperate despair" that forces Hamas to allow women who are compelled to throw stones towards the border.

It is truly awful not to be able to attack soldiers and Jews with impunity like they used to. They want so much to be like Ahed.

(full article online)

Gaza's "desperate despair": Not being able to attack Israelis directly ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> But the Palestinians have to accept the assholes that the Israelis elect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or ... they could give up their insane vendetta against the Jews and worry about their own arsehole politicians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It has nothing to do with Jews.
Click to expand...


It has everything to do with Jews. From Uthman's koran to the present day, including the Hamas and PA Charters, Jew hatred is enshrined in the politico-religious ideology of Islamism.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Familiar scenes - from seven years ago [Image Source]

In a punchy New York Times column published this past Friday ["Jewish Power at 70 Years"], Bret Stephens starts out talking about a hate crime - with an intriguing twist - in today's Germany. But then he heads off in the direction of the Middle East and the challenges posed to Israelis by the people on the far side of our borders.

Here's a first extract:

On Friday, Palestinians in Gaza returned for the fourth time to the border fence with Israel, in protests promoted by Hamas. The explicit purpose of Hamas leaders is to breach the fence and march on Jerusalem. Israel cannot possibly allow this — doing so would create a precedent that would encourage similar protests, and more death, along all of Israel’s borders — and has repeatedly used deadly force to counter it. The armchair corporals of Western punditry think this is excessive. It would be helpful if they could suggest alternative military tactics to an Israeli government dealing with an urgent crisis against an adversary sworn to its destruction. They don’t. It would also be helpful if they could explain how they can insist on Israel’s retreat to the 1967 borders and then scold Israel when it defends those borders. They can’t.He's right. We're old enough to remember the coordinated Arab assaults on multiple Israeli bordersseven years ago in conjunction with Naqba Day - May 14 and 15, 2011 and around the same time as the ill-fated and unfortunately-named Arab Spring. 

A BBC report at the time ["Palestinian protests: Arab spring or foreign manipulation?", BBC, May 15, 2011] said the not-so-peaceful "protestors" 
undoubtedly embodied the same kind of risk-taking, confrontational people-power ethos that has fired the revolts in many parts of the Arab world.How did that risk-taking confrontation play out? 


*Lebanon*
In Lebanon, some 30,000 people were pulled together by the organizers near Lebanon's Israel border and walked towards it just opposite the northern Israeli town of Avivim. Soldiers of the Lebanese army first fired into the air to deter them. But then, as they headed recklessly into and across a border minefield throwing stones towards the Israeli and shouting into the hills for a "right of return", the Lebanese forces shot at them with assault rifles and tear gas. Before the retreat was completed, 11 participants were dead and about 100 injured. 


*Egypt*
On the Egyptian border, thousands were reported to about to make their way from Cairo, Alexandria, Suez and other points of origin toward the Rafah crossing with Gaza. But the military regime then in power intervened, warning bus companies not to answer the convoy organizers' requests. The few buses that did set off were stopped by the military and in the end, according to Ma'an, only some 80 individuals equipped with flags and an arsenal of angry demands and slogans got to the border. 


*Fatahland*
According to Wikipedia, around 300 West Bank "protesters" assembled at the Qalandiya Crossing - a busy crossing point - to demonstrate, forming human chains, staging sit-downs, hurling rocks. About 120 were said to be affected by tear gas, stink-spray and other crowd-dispersal means. BBC: "Clashes at the Qalandiya checkpoint in Ramallah continued for hours, with dozens of Palestinians injured. Palestinian protesters threw stones at Israeli security forces, who fired tear gas and rubber bullets." 


*Jordan*
In Jordan, about 500 Palestinian Arab Jordanians were prevented by Jordanian army and police forces from doing harm at the Allenby Bridge, the major crossing point into the West Bank and Israel. They used tear gas and other similar tools and some 25 people were reported injured, including 11 Jordanian police. A Ma'an report said the Hamas-aligned Jordanian Muslim Brotherhood and what Ma'an called "the powerful Islamic Action Front" termed this "shocking" and turning reality on its end demanded "an end to such policies that have harmed Jordan's image". 

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 23-Apr-18: Bret Stephens on Israel's robust willingness to defend itself


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The Independent (UK) adds to the long list of deprivations that Gazans are forced to live through.
> 
> For thirteen long years, the desperate Gazans have been unable to directly attack Israeli soldiers.
> 
> It is a sad fact that Western media cannot find any Gazans who have starved under Israel's brutal siege. They cannot blame Israel for withholding fuel or electricity or medicines - that is the Palestinian Authority that does that. They cannot blame Israel for withholding salaries for workers - that is both Hamas and the PA, depending on the circumstances.
> 
> But, dammit, they can blame Israel for withdrawing Jews from Gaza, which makes it so much harder for Palestinians to attack them! It is a truly awful feeling, not being able to attack Jews directly, and it causes a "uniquely desperate despair" that forces Hamas to allow women who are compelled to throw stones towards the border.
> 
> It is truly awful not to be able to attack soldiers and Jews with impunity like they used to. They want so much to be like Ahed.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gaza's "desperate despair": Not being able to attack Israelis directly ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News





Sixties Fan said:


> They cannot blame Israel for withholding fuel or electricity or medicines - that is the Palestinian Authority that does that.


Abbas is the house negro.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Independent (UK) adds to the long list of deprivations that Gazans are forced to live through.
> 
> For thirteen long years, the desperate Gazans have been unable to directly attack Israeli soldiers.
> 
> It is a sad fact that Western media cannot find any Gazans who have starved under Israel's brutal siege. They cannot blame Israel for withholding fuel or electricity or medicines - that is the Palestinian Authority that does that. They cannot blame Israel for withholding salaries for workers - that is both Hamas and the PA, depending on the circumstances.
> 
> But, dammit, they can blame Israel for withdrawing Jews from Gaza, which makes it so much harder for Palestinians to attack them! It is a truly awful feeling, not being able to attack Jews directly, and it causes a "uniquely desperate despair" that forces Hamas to allow women who are compelled to throw stones towards the border.
> 
> It is truly awful not to be able to attack soldiers and Jews with impunity like they used to. They want so much to be like Ahed.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gaza's "desperate despair": Not being able to attack Israelis directly ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> They cannot blame Israel for withholding fuel or electricity or medicines - that is the Palestinian Authority that does that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Abbas is the house negro.
Click to expand...

Shame on you!!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Familiar scenes - from seven years ago [Image Source]
> 
> In a punchy New York Times column published this past Friday ["Jewish Power at 70 Years"], Bret Stephens starts out talking about a hate crime - with an intriguing twist - in today's Germany. But then he heads off in the direction of the Middle East and the challenges posed to Israelis by the people on the far side of our borders.
> 
> Here's a first extract:
> 
> On Friday, Palestinians in Gaza returned for the fourth time to the border fence with Israel, in protests promoted by Hamas. The explicit purpose of Hamas leaders is to breach the fence and march on Jerusalem. Israel cannot possibly allow this — doing so would create a precedent that would encourage similar protests, and more death, along all of Israel’s borders — and has repeatedly used deadly force to counter it. The armchair corporals of Western punditry think this is excessive. It would be helpful if they could suggest alternative military tactics to an Israeli government dealing with an urgent crisis against an adversary sworn to its destruction. They don’t. It would also be helpful if they could explain how they can insist on Israel’s retreat to the 1967 borders and then scold Israel when it defends those borders. They can’t.He's right. We're old enough to remember the coordinated Arab assaults on multiple Israeli bordersseven years ago in conjunction with Naqba Day - May 14 and 15, 2011 and around the same time as the ill-fated and unfortunately-named Arab Spring.
> 
> A BBC report at the time ["Palestinian protests: Arab spring or foreign manipulation?", BBC, May 15, 2011] said the not-so-peaceful "protestors"
> undoubtedly embodied the same kind of risk-taking, confrontational people-power ethos that has fired the revolts in many parts of the Arab world.How did that risk-taking confrontation play out?
> 
> 
> *Lebanon*
> In Lebanon, some 30,000 people were pulled together by the organizers near Lebanon's Israel border and walked towards it just opposite the northern Israeli town of Avivim. Soldiers of the Lebanese army first fired into the air to deter them. But then, as they headed recklessly into and across a border minefield throwing stones towards the Israeli and shouting into the hills for a "right of return", the Lebanese forces shot at them with assault rifles and tear gas. Before the retreat was completed, 11 participants were dead and about 100 injured.
> 
> 
> *Egypt*
> On the Egyptian border, thousands were reported to about to make their way from Cairo, Alexandria, Suez and other points of origin toward the Rafah crossing with Gaza. But the military regime then in power intervened, warning bus companies not to answer the convoy organizers' requests. The few buses that did set off were stopped by the military and in the end, according to Ma'an, only some 80 individuals equipped with flags and an arsenal of angry demands and slogans got to the border.
> 
> 
> *Fatahland*
> According to Wikipedia, around 300 West Bank "protesters" assembled at the Qalandiya Crossing - a busy crossing point - to demonstrate, forming human chains, staging sit-downs, hurling rocks. About 120 were said to be affected by tear gas, stink-spray and other crowd-dispersal means. BBC: "Clashes at the Qalandiya checkpoint in Ramallah continued for hours, with dozens of Palestinians injured. Palestinian protesters threw stones at Israeli security forces, who fired tear gas and rubber bullets."
> 
> 
> *Jordan*
> In Jordan, about 500 Palestinian Arab Jordanians were prevented by Jordanian army and police forces from doing harm at the Allenby Bridge, the major crossing point into the West Bank and Israel. They used tear gas and other similar tools and some 25 people were reported injured, including 11 Jordanian police. A Ma'an report said the Hamas-aligned Jordanian Muslim Brotherhood and what Ma'an called "the powerful Islamic Action Front" termed this "shocking" and turning reality on its end demanded "an end to such policies that have harmed Jordan's image".
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> This Ongoing War: A Blog: 23-Apr-18: Bret Stephens on Israel's robust willingness to defend itself


Indeed, Israel needs to defend its settler colonial project.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Familiar scenes - from seven years ago [Image Source]
> 
> In a punchy New York Times column published this past Friday ["Jewish Power at 70 Years"], Bret Stephens starts out talking about a hate crime - with an intriguing twist - in today's Germany. But then he heads off in the direction of the Middle East and the challenges posed to Israelis by the people on the far side of our borders.
> 
> Here's a first extract:
> 
> On Friday, Palestinians in Gaza returned for the fourth time to the border fence with Israel, in protests promoted by Hamas. The explicit purpose of Hamas leaders is to breach the fence and march on Jerusalem. Israel cannot possibly allow this — doing so would create a precedent that would encourage similar protests, and more death, along all of Israel’s borders — and has repeatedly used deadly force to counter it. The armchair corporals of Western punditry think this is excessive. It would be helpful if they could suggest alternative military tactics to an Israeli government dealing with an urgent crisis against an adversary sworn to its destruction. They don’t. It would also be helpful if they could explain how they can insist on Israel’s retreat to the 1967 borders and then scold Israel when it defends those borders. They can’t.He's right. We're old enough to remember the coordinated Arab assaults on multiple Israeli bordersseven years ago in conjunction with Naqba Day - May 14 and 15, 2011 and around the same time as the ill-fated and unfortunately-named Arab Spring.
> 
> A BBC report at the time ["Palestinian protests: Arab spring or foreign manipulation?", BBC, May 15, 2011] said the not-so-peaceful "protestors"
> undoubtedly embodied the same kind of risk-taking, confrontational people-power ethos that has fired the revolts in many parts of the Arab world.How did that risk-taking confrontation play out?
> 
> 
> *Lebanon*
> In Lebanon, some 30,000 people were pulled together by the organizers near Lebanon's Israel border and walked towards it just opposite the northern Israeli town of Avivim. Soldiers of the Lebanese army first fired into the air to deter them. But then, as they headed recklessly into and across a border minefield throwing stones towards the Israeli and shouting into the hills for a "right of return", the Lebanese forces shot at them with assault rifles and tear gas. Before the retreat was completed, 11 participants were dead and about 100 injured.
> 
> 
> *Egypt*
> On the Egyptian border, thousands were reported to about to make their way from Cairo, Alexandria, Suez and other points of origin toward the Rafah crossing with Gaza. But the military regime then in power intervened, warning bus companies not to answer the convoy organizers' requests. The few buses that did set off were stopped by the military and in the end, according to Ma'an, only some 80 individuals equipped with flags and an arsenal of angry demands and slogans got to the border.
> 
> 
> *Fatahland*
> According to Wikipedia, around 300 West Bank "protesters" assembled at the Qalandiya Crossing - a busy crossing point - to demonstrate, forming human chains, staging sit-downs, hurling rocks. About 120 were said to be affected by tear gas, stink-spray and other crowd-dispersal means. BBC: "Clashes at the Qalandiya checkpoint in Ramallah continued for hours, with dozens of Palestinians injured. Palestinian protesters threw stones at Israeli security forces, who fired tear gas and rubber bullets."
> 
> 
> *Jordan*
> In Jordan, about 500 Palestinian Arab Jordanians were prevented by Jordanian army and police forces from doing harm at the Allenby Bridge, the major crossing point into the West Bank and Israel. They used tear gas and other similar tools and some 25 people were reported injured, including 11 Jordanian police. A Ma'an report said the Hamas-aligned Jordanian Muslim Brotherhood and what Ma'an called "the powerful Islamic Action Front" termed this "shocking" and turning reality on its end demanded "an end to such policies that have harmed Jordan's image".
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> This Ongoing War: A Blog: 23-Apr-18: Bret Stephens on Israel's robust willingness to defend itself
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel needs to defend its settler colonial project.
Click to expand...

The Jewish People/Nation is defending itself from the barbaric Muslims who cannot let go of one Duma of land they once conquered.

To heck with your endless attacks on Jews and love for the Muslims.

Which is exactly why the Jews built a country which is as strong as it is. 

To deal with bastards like you.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> But the Palestinians have to accept the assholes that the Israelis elect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or ... they could give up their insane vendetta against the Jews and worry about their own arsehole politicians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It has nothing to do with Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It has everything to do with Jews. From Uthman's koran to the present day, including the Hamas and PA Charters, Jew hatred is enshrined in the politico-religious ideology of Islamism.
Click to expand...

Not so. If Hindus were killing them and stealing their stuff, they would be hating on the Hindus.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> But the Palestinians have to accept the assholes that the Israelis elect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or ... they could give up their insane vendetta against the Jews and worry about their own arsehole politicians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It has nothing to do with Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It has everything to do with Jews. From Uthman's koran to the present day, including the Hamas and PA Charters, Jew hatred is enshrined in the politico-religious ideology of Islamism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so. If Hindus were killing them and stealing their stuff, they would be hating on the Hindus.
Click to expand...


Your koranology lessons include instruction in _taqiyya_, obviously.  You know full well the verses in your Korans that speak to revulsion for Jews and Christians.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> But the Palestinians have to accept the assholes that the Israelis elect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or ... they could give up their insane vendetta against the Jews and worry about their own arsehole politicians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It has nothing to do with Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It has everything to do with Jews. From Uthman's koran to the present day, including the Hamas and PA Charters, Jew hatred is enshrined in the politico-religious ideology of Islamism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so. If Hindus were killing them and stealing their stuff, they would be hating on the Hindus.
Click to expand...

Out of the BDS handbook......page....????

Come on, help me ....which page did you get this Hindu idea from, where in reality it is the Muslims who attacked the Hindus and created......Pakistan out of a good chunk of what had been India.

Muslims hate Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buhddists, any and all Non Muslims.

So, I guess you are safe


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> They can burn tires 300m from the border.
> For the simple reason that at this distance if they want to make an explosion - they'll endanger only their own.


The buffer zone is on Gazan land.  So you really didn't leave Gaza, as you keep claiming.



rylah said:


> Q. Maybe they get shot because they're taught that next to killing Jews, death is the biggest achievement?


Maybe because they're not taught that.  That's another big lie you fuckers keep telling.  No parent teaches their children to die.  The reason they want to kill Israeli's, is because you've been treating them like garbage, since you moved into the area.


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> Sure they were, and so declared openly.
> Bringing more ice cream won't help them hide the guns.


They didn't have any guns.  On that note, why can't they have weapons?  Are they not allowed to defend themselves?  Well, you need weapons for that.

As far as ice cream goes, what's the price of Milky these days?


----------



## fncceo

Billo_Really said:


> No parent teaches their children to die.























Shall I go on?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> They can burn tires 300m from the border.
> For the simple reason that at this distance if they want to make an explosion - they'll endanger only their own.
> 
> 
> 
> The buffer zone is on Gazan land.  So you really didn't leave Gaza, as you keep claiming.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Q. Maybe they get shot because they're taught that next to killing Jews, death is the biggest achievement?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe because they're not taught that.  That's another big lie you fuckers keep telling.  No parent teaches their children to die.  The reason they want to kill Israeli's, is because you've been treating them like garbage, since you moved into the area.
Click to expand...


[ These Palestinians need to learn that what they have been taught in Gaza and the PA is wrong.  Their parents should never teach their children to seek death.....for Allah, for a piece of land, or anything else ]


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> No parent teaches their children to die.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> But the Palestinians have to accept the assholes that the Israelis elect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or ... they could give up their insane vendetta against the Jews and worry about their own arsehole politicians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It has nothing to do with Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It has everything to do with Jews. From Uthman's koran to the present day, including the Hamas and PA Charters, Jew hatred is enshrined in the politico-religious ideology of Islamism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so. If Hindus were killing them and stealing their stuff, they would be hating on the Hindus.
Click to expand...


Interesting your using the Hindu’s for your silly attempt at some twisted analogy.

After the death of Islam's inventor, Islam's holy warriors spilled out of the peninsula and through war, conquest and colonialism utterly ravaged almost one half of the civilized world. From the Indian subcontinent to the Northern Mediterranean and Western Africa, Islam's bloody conquest was brutal and deadly.

The greatest genocide in human history was the Islamist rampage theough the Indian subcontinent. It is estimated that as many as 80 million Hindus were slaughtered by the Islamist hordes. The Hindu Kush means "slaughter of the Hindus".

Hindu Kush means Hindu Slaughter


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> *Arabs massacred their Jewish neighbors in Palestine long before any Zionist ever shot a bullet.*
> 
> Written by a Palestinian Jew of Safed about the Arab massacres of 1834:
> 
> _"Now I have come to announce the large losses and afflictions that have been created in Israel in four countries, ie Jerusalem,and Hebron and the Upper Galilee, namely Safed. And the lower Galilee, namely the city of Tabriya. By the hands of the plunderers and looters that rose in the country. And they come only upon the Jews...
> *On Sunday, eight days in the month of Sivan, the looters, inhabitants of the villages joined with the inhabitants of the cities. They had weapons of war and shields and fell upon all the Jews and stripped their clothes from men and women. They expelled them naked from the city, and plundered all their property...
> The remnants were coerced and raped whether men or women. Tore all the Torah scrolls, and their talit and tefilin and the city was abandoned... This was so for 33 days, so was done in the city of Safed, so was done in other towns."*_
> 
> Periodicals of people of Israel in Eretz Israel - Menachem Mendel ben- Aaaron 1800-1873
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


It's not bullshit.

*Before Zionism: The shared life of Jews and Palestinians*

_Before the advent of Zionism and Arab nationalism, Jews and Palestinians lived in peace in the holy land. Menachem Klein’s new book maps out an oft-forgotten history of Israel/Palestine, and offers some guidance on how we may go back to that time._​I do concede there was major violence in 1834 at Safed.  Muhammed Damoor was an asshole.  But give me one example of major violence between the two groups from '34 and the Zionist migration.  There were probably skirmishes, but nothing major.  Even in the Hebron riots, which was started by Zionists, 429 Jews were saved by their Arab neighbors.



rylah said:


> Here's another fact for You to deal with:
> The initial steps in Political Zionism pretty much started as a response to Arab pogroms in Syria-Palestine. Long before a Zionist ever shot a bullet.


Zionists moved into the area bringing with them racist, apartheid policies.  Jewish terrorist groups drove out over 750,000 Arabs.  And you expect them to say, "Thank you"?



rylah said:


> The only difference between yesterdays pogroms and today, is that Jews have a military to protect themselves. And the Swastika waved at Israel from Gaza with the open calls to go to die and murder Jews - only shows the legitimacy of that call until today.


I don't know why you keep bringing up Jews?  This has nothing to do with Judaism.  

The difference between then and now, is that Israeli's (not Jews), are the new Nazis.  Israeli's (not Jews), treat the Palestinians much like the Nazis did in the 10 years leading up to the Holocaust.

you treat the Pals like they are inhuman
you have government propaganda trashing them 24/7
you blame all the problems of the country on them
you're actively trying to purge them from the area
your population thinks any atrocity committed on them is okay
And you can throw in the fact that much like Germans wanted to be known as The Aryan Nation, you want to be known as the Jewish State.

Yeah, you're the new Nazis!


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> The *blockade of the Gaza Strip* refers to a land, air, and sea blockade on the Gaza Strip by Israel and Egypt* from 2007 to present.* One year after the 2005 disengagement from the Gaza Strip by Israel, Hamas won the Palestinian legislative election. Israel and the Quartet on the Middle East imposed sanctions against the Palestinian Authority. The stated reason was that Hamas would not agree to the conditions for continued aid: to recognize Israel, disavow violent actions, and accept the previous agreements between Israel and the PA.[1]
> 
> In March 2007, Hamas and Fatah formed the unity government headed by Ismail Haniya. Shortly after, in June, Hamas took control of the Gaza Strip during the Battle of Gaza.[2] Hamas seized government institutions and replaced Fatah and other government officials with Hamas members.[3] Following the takeover, Egypt and Israel largely closed their border crossings with Gaza, on the grounds that Fatah had fled the Strip and was no longer able to provide security on the Palestinian side.[4] Egypt was worried that Hamas control over Gaza would increase Iranian influence. Aboul Gheit explained that opening the Rafah border crossing would undermine the legitimacy of the Palestinian Authority.[5]
> Blockade of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia


That's what I've been saying.  Hamas won't kowtow to Israel and that pisses off the fascists in the Likud Party.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Arabs massacred their Jewish neighbors in Palestine long before any Zionist ever shot a bullet.*
> 
> Written by a Palestinian Jew of Safed about the Arab massacres of 1834:
> 
> _"Now I have come to announce the large losses and afflictions that have been created in Israel in four countries, ie Jerusalem,and Hebron and the Upper Galilee, namely Safed. And the lower Galilee, namely the city of Tabriya. By the hands of the plunderers and looters that rose in the country. And they come only upon the Jews...
> *On Sunday, eight days in the month of Sivan, the looters, inhabitants of the villages joined with the inhabitants of the cities. They had weapons of war and shields and fell upon all the Jews and stripped their clothes from men and women. They expelled them naked from the city, and plundered all their property...
> The remnants were coerced and raped whether men or women. Tore all the Torah scrolls, and their talit and tefilin and the city was abandoned... This was so for 33 days, so was done in the city of Safed, so was done in other towns."*_
> 
> Periodicals of people of Israel in Eretz Israel - Menachem Mendel ben- Aaaron 1800-1873
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> It's not bullshit.
> 
> *Before Zionism: The shared life of Jews and Palestinians*
> 
> _Before the advent of Zionism and Arab nationalism, Jews and Palestinians lived in peace in the holy land. Menachem Klein’s new book maps out an oft-forgotten history of Israel/Palestine, and offers some guidance on how we may go back to that time._​I do concede there was major violence in 1834 at Safed.  Muhammed Damoor was an asshole.  But give me one example of major violence between the two groups from '34 and the Zionist migration.  There were probably skirmishes, but nothing major.  Even in the Hebron riots, which was started by Zionists, 429 Jews were saved by their Arab neighbors.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's another fact for You to deal with:
> The initial steps in Political Zionism pretty much started as a response to Arab pogroms in Syria-Palestine. Long before a Zionist ever shot a bullet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionists moved into the area bringing with them racist, apartheid policies.  Jewish terrorist groups drove out over 750,000 Arabs.  And you expect them to say, "Thank you"?
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only difference between yesterdays pogroms and today, is that Jews have a military to protect themselves. And the Swastika waved at Israel from Gaza with the open calls to go to die and murder Jews - only shows the legitimacy of that call until today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know why you keep bringing up Jews?  This has nothing to do with Judaism.
> 
> The difference between then and now, is that Israeli's (not Jews), are the new Nazis.  Israeli's (not Jews), treat the Palestinians much like the Nazis did in the 10 years leading up to the Holocaust.
> 
> you treat the Pals like they are inhuman
> you have government propaganda trashing them 24/7
> you blame all the problems of the country on them
> you're actively trying to purge them from the area
> your population thinks any atrocity committed on them is okay
> And you can throw in the fact that much like Germans wanted to be known as The Aryan Nation, you want to be known as the Jewish State.
> 
> Yeah, you're the new Nazis!
Click to expand...


Yeah. Dhimmitude was a party.

The Position of Jews and Christians in the Ottoman Empire

Religious association typically determined status in the predominantly Muslim Ottoman Empire. According to Moshe Ma’oz, Christians and Jews were seen as “inferior subjects or as illegitimate denominations.”1 As a result, they were often discriminated against by the state entity.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The *blockade of the Gaza Strip* refers to a land, air, and sea blockade on the Gaza Strip by Israel and Egypt* from 2007 to present.* One year after the 2005 disengagement from the Gaza Strip by Israel, Hamas won the Palestinian legislative election. Israel and the Quartet on the Middle East imposed sanctions against the Palestinian Authority. The stated reason was that Hamas would not agree to the conditions for continued aid: to recognize Israel, disavow violent actions, and accept the previous agreements between Israel and the PA.[1]
> 
> In March 2007, Hamas and Fatah formed the unity government headed by Ismail Haniya. Shortly after, in June, Hamas took control of the Gaza Strip during the Battle of Gaza.[2] Hamas seized government institutions and replaced Fatah and other government officials with Hamas members.[3] Following the takeover, Egypt and Israel largely closed their border crossings with Gaza, on the grounds that Fatah had fled the Strip and was no longer able to provide security on the Palestinian side.[4] Egypt was worried that Hamas control over Gaza would increase Iranian influence. Aboul Gheit explained that opening the Rafah border crossing would undermine the legitimacy of the Palestinian Authority.[5]
> Blockade of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I've been saying.  Hamas won't kowtow to Israel and that pisses off the fascists in the Likud Party.
Click to expand...

Actually, the Islamic terrorists (Hamas), you define as heroes are the the most brazen cowards who use women and children as human shields why  they get fat and rich on welfare dollars.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Arabs massacred their Jewish neighbors in Palestine long before any Zionist ever shot a bullet.*
> 
> Written by a Palestinian Jew of Safed about the Arab massacres of 1834:
> 
> _"Now I have come to announce the large losses and afflictions that have been created in Israel in four countries, ie Jerusalem,and Hebron and the Upper Galilee, namely Safed. And the lower Galilee, namely the city of Tabriya. By the hands of the plunderers and looters that rose in the country. And they come only upon the Jews...
> *On Sunday, eight days in the month of Sivan, the looters, inhabitants of the villages joined with the inhabitants of the cities. They had weapons of war and shields and fell upon all the Jews and stripped their clothes from men and women. They expelled them naked from the city, and plundered all their property...
> The remnants were coerced and raped whether men or women. Tore all the Torah scrolls, and their talit and tefilin and the city was abandoned... This was so for 33 days, so was done in the city of Safed, so was done in other towns."*_
> 
> Periodicals of people of Israel in Eretz Israel - Menachem Mendel ben- Aaaron 1800-1873
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> It's not bullshit.
> 
> *Before Zionism: The shared life of Jews and Palestinians*
> 
> _Before the advent of Zionism and Arab nationalism, Jews and Palestinians lived in peace in the holy land. Menachem Klein’s new book maps out an oft-forgotten history of Israel/Palestine, and offers some guidance on how we may go back to that time._​I do concede there was major violence in 1834 at Safed.  Muhammed Damoor was an asshole.  But give me one example of major violence between the two groups from '34 and the Zionist migration.  There were probably skirmishes, but nothing major.  Even in the Hebron riots, which was started by Zionists, 429 Jews were saved by their Arab neighbors.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's another fact for You to deal with:
> The initial steps in Political Zionism pretty much started as a response to Arab pogroms in Syria-Palestine. Long before a Zionist ever shot a bullet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionists moved into the area bringing with them racist, apartheid policies.  Jewish terrorist groups drove out over 750,000 Arabs.  And you expect them to say, "Thank you"?
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only difference between yesterdays pogroms and today, is that Jews have a military to protect themselves. And the Swastika waved at Israel from Gaza with the open calls to go to die and murder Jews - only shows the legitimacy of that call until today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know why you keep bringing up Jews?  This has nothing to do with Judaism.
> 
> The difference between then and now, is that Israeli's (not Jews), are the new Nazis.  Israeli's (not Jews), treat the Palestinians much like the Nazis did in the 10 years leading up to the Holocaust.
> 
> you treat the Pals like they are inhuman
> you have government propaganda trashing them 24/7
> you blame all the problems of the country on them
> you're actively trying to purge them from the area
> your population thinks any atrocity committed on them is okay
> And you can throw in the fact that much like Germans wanted to be known as The Aryan Nation, you want to be known as the Jewish State.
> 
> Yeah, you're the new Nazis!
Click to expand...

Now I am curious.

If Zionists are not Jews, who belong to the Jewish Faith (Judaism ) which religion do they belong to?

Christianity?
Hinduism?
Buddhism ?

Any other?


----------



## fncceo

Billo_Really said:


> you treat the Pals like they are inhuman
> 
> you have government propaganda trashing them 24/7
> 
> you blame all the problems of the country on them
> 
> you're actively trying to purge them from the area
> 
> your population thinks any atrocity committed on them is okay



Project much ... 

in fact, Palestinians regularly refer to Jews as 'Pigs and Apes'.

Palestinian and Arab media machine is constantly churning out anti-semitic propaganda, much of which aimed directly at children.

Both Hamas and the PLO blame Israel for lack of service and civil unrest despite the fact that Israel is the largest contributor of food, material, and medical aid to the Palestinians.

Palestinian Arabs make up 25% of Israeli citizens.  Gaza is Judenfrei and the stated goal of the PLO is to remove ALL Jewish population from Judea and Samaria.

Suicide bombers, rocket and mortar attacks, motor vehicle attacks, and stabbing are condoned and praised at all levels of Palestinian society.


----------



## Billo_Really

fncceo said:


> Shall I go on?


What do you call this?  Israeliwood?

Do you actually  believe the attacks against Israel have nothing to do with Israel's treatment of the Palestinians?


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> [ These Palestinians need to learn that what they have been taught in Gaza and the PA is wrong.  Their parents should never teach their children to seek death.....for Allah, for a piece of land, or anything else ]


You always want to talk about the response, not the cause.  The cause of the violence IS YOU!

End the occupation and the violence will end to.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


>


So now you have your own Pallywood production videos?


----------



## fncceo

Billo_Really said:


> End the occupation and the violence will end to



Be specific, what parts of Israel is 'occupied'?  How do you account for virulent antisemitism and terror from Gaza that doesn't contain a single Jew?


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now you have your own Pallywood production videos?
Click to expand...


That was quite the islamo-tap dance.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Yeah. Dhimmitude was a party.
> 
> The Position of Jews and Christians in the Ottoman Empire
> 
> Religious association typically determined status in the predominantly Muslim Ottoman Empire. According to Moshe Ma’oz, Christians and Jews were seen as “inferior subjects or as illegitimate denominations.”1 As a result, they were often discriminated against by the state entity.


From your own link...

_"In contrast, other scholars may argue that the position of minorities under the Ottomans was lenient compared to minority treatment elsewhere in the world..."_​
Even your own link admits that things must be viewed in their own context...

_"... it must be noted that historical interpretations, or misinterpretations, must be intensely scrutinized when discussing the position of Jews and Arabs under the Ottoman Empire."_​


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ These Palestinians need to learn that what they have been taught in Gaza and the PA is wrong.  Their parents should never teach their children to seek death.....for Allah, for a piece of land, or anything else ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You always want to talk about the response, not the cause.  The cause of the violence IS YOU!
> 
> End the occupation and the violence will end to.
Click to expand...


Pay attention during Friday prayers at the madrassah. 

Read the Hamas Charter.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hollie said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now you have your own Pallywood production videos?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was quite the islamo-tap dance.
Click to expand...

A true Denialist, no different than any of the others who will deny anything and everything given to them.

Answer simple questions?

Too much for them.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. Dhimmitude was a party.
> 
> The Position of Jews and Christians in the Ottoman Empire
> 
> Religious association typically determined status in the predominantly Muslim Ottoman Empire. According to Moshe Ma’oz, Christians and Jews were seen as “inferior subjects or as illegitimate denominations.”1 As a result, they were often discriminated against by the state entity.
> 
> 
> 
> From your own link...
> 
> _"In contrast, other scholars may argue that the position of minorities under the Ottomans was lenient compared to minority treatment elsewhere in the world..."_​
> Even your own link admits that things must be viewed in their own context...
> 
> _"... it must be noted that historical interpretations, or misinterpretations, must be intensely scrutinized when discussing the position of Jews and Arabs under the Ottoman Empire."_​
Click to expand...


You can deny the Islamist history of dhimmitude but your denial won’t change the historical (or in your case, the hysterical) record.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Actually, the Islamic terrorists (Hamas), you define as heroes are the the most brazen cowards who use women and children as human shields why  they get fat and rich on welfare dollars.


Back at ya, bee-otch!

*IDF Soldiers Convicted of Using 11-year-old as Human Shield in Gaza*​


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Now I am curious.
> 
> If Zionists are not Jews, who belong to the Jewish Faith (Judaism ) which religion do they belong to?
> 
> Christianity?
> Hinduism?
> Buddhism ?
> 
> Any other?


Judaism is a religion; Zionism is a political movement.

Zionists use Jews like a whore uses a tampon, to be discarded later after its use is no longer needed.


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now you have your own Pallywood production videos?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was quite the islamo-tap dance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A true Denialist, no different than any of the others who will deny anything and everything given to them.
> 
> Answer simple questions?
> 
> Too much for them.
Click to expand...


I’m sure the boy would be fine with his role as a dhimmi in an Islamist State.


----------



## Billo_Really

fncceo said:


> Project much ...
> 
> in fact, Palestinians regularly refer to Jews as 'Pigs and Apes'.
> 
> Palestinian and Arab media machine is constantly churning out anti-semitic propaganda, much of which aimed directly at children.
> 
> Both Hamas and the PLO blame Israel for lack of service and civil unrest despite the fact that Israel is the largest contributor of food, material, and medical aid to the Palestinians.
> 
> Palestinian Arabs make up 25% of Israeli citizens.  Gaza is Judenfrei and the stated goal of the PLO is to remove ALL Jewish population from Judea and Samaria.
> 
> Suicide bombers, rocket and mortar attacks, motor vehicle attacks, and stabbing are condoned and praised at all levels of Palestinian society.


There is no way you can tell me Israel is not guilty of the things I stated.

You always try to remove Israel out of the equation.  Nothing happens in a vacuum.  The occupation is the cause of all the violence in the area for the last 50 years.

BTW, the rockets didn't start falling until 34 years after the occupation began.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> That was quite the islamo-tap dance.


It's no tap dance to point out you are a hypocrite.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Islamic terrorists (Hamas), you define as heroes are the the most brazen cowards who use women and children as human shields why  they get fat and rich on welfare dollars.
> 
> 
> 
> Back at ya, bee-otch!
> 
> *IDF Soldiers Convicted of Using 11-year-old as Human Shield in Gaza*​
Click to expand...


Did you notice that the article you posted referenced a conviction for the IDF soldiers?

On the other hand, your Islamic terrorist heroes explicitly wage war from civilian areas with the knowledge and expectation that civilians will be in line of fire when Israel is required to counter the Islamic terrorist threat. 

Really remarkable how you people will willingly put civilians in harms way as a means to further your Jooooo hatreds.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> That was quite the islamo-tap dance.
> 
> 
> 
> It's no tap dance to point out you are a hypocrite.
Click to expand...


Your wounded self-esteem is your own fault.


----------



## Billo_Really

fncceo said:


> Be specific, what parts of Israel is 'occupied'?  How do you account for virulent antisemitism and terror from Gaza that doesn't contain a single Jew?


The West Bank, East Jerusalem, Golan Heights and as for Gaza, the fact that Israel has not left.  The Israeli's maintain "effective control" over 80% of that area.  That's an occupation.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Project much ...
> 
> in fact, Palestinians regularly refer to Jews as 'Pigs and Apes'.
> 
> Palestinian and Arab media machine is constantly churning out anti-semitic propaganda, much of which aimed directly at children.
> 
> Both Hamas and the PLO blame Israel for lack of service and civil unrest despite the fact that Israel is the largest contributor of food, material, and medical aid to the Palestinians.
> 
> Palestinian Arabs make up 25% of Israeli citizens.  Gaza is Judenfrei and the stated goal of the PLO is to remove ALL Jewish population from Judea and Samaria.
> 
> Suicide bombers, rocket and mortar attacks, motor vehicle attacks, and stabbing are condoned and praised at all levels of Palestinian society.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no way you can tell me Israel is not guilty of the things I stated.
> 
> You always try to remove Israel out of the equation.  Nothing happens in a vacuum.  The occupation is the cause of all the violence in the area for the last 50 years.
> 
> BTW, the rockets didn't start falling until 34 years after the occupation began.
Click to expand...


Islamic terrorist attacks began much earlier.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Pay attention during Friday prayers at the madrassah.
> 
> Read the Hamas Charter.


Still pointing to an outdated, 40 year old document that they don't follow any more.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ These are the Arab Muslims, long before they started calling themselves Palestinians ]

List of killings and massacres in Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pay attention during Friday prayers at the madrassah.
> 
> Read the Hamas Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> Still pointing to an outdated, 40 year old document that they don't follow any more.
Click to expand...


Still making excuses for a document in use that defines the goals of your Islamic terrorist heroes.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now I am curious.
> 
> If Zionists are not Jews, who belong to the Jewish Faith (Judaism ) which religion do they belong to?
> 
> Christianity?
> Hinduism?
> Buddhism ?
> 
> Any other?
> 
> 
> 
> Judaism is a religion; Zionism is a political movement.
> 
> Zionists use Jews like a whore uses a tampon, to be discarded later after its use is no longer needed.
Click to expand...


You’re certainly the expert.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pay attention during Friday prayers at the madrassah.
> 
> Read the Hamas Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> Still pointing to an outdated, 40 year old document that they don't follow any more.
Click to expand...

Odd, up to a year ago the Hamas Charter was still going on strong.

But you think it is outdated, and they do not follow it anymore.

Exactly which articles are they not following anymore?


Hamas: The New Charter That Isn't


----------



## fncceo

Billo_Really said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Be specific, what parts of Israel is 'occupied'?  How do you account for virulent antisemitism and terror from Gaza that doesn't contain a single Jew?
> 
> 
> 
> The West Bank, East Jerusalem, Golan Heights and as for Gaza, the fact that Israel has not left.  The Israeli's maintain "effective control" over 80% of that area.  That's an occupation.
Click to expand...


West Bank and Jerusalem were occupied by Jordan from 1948 to 1967.  During that occupation, the UN had to come in and establish refugee camps to feed the Palestinians because the Jordanians wouldn't.  Why was their no Arab condemnation of that occupation?  

In fact, most of the territory that is home to the Palestinian population of the West Bank is under the full control of the PLO.

There isn't a single Jew or Israeli soldier in Gaza.   Israel maintains a tightly controlled border between Gaza and Israel.  Egypt maintains the same between their country and Gaza.  Despite that, hundreds of tonnes of food, materials, and medical supplies pass through that border from Israel to Gaza every week.  Thousands of Palestinians from Gaza pass into Israel every year to receive free medical care in Israeli clinics.

Golan Heights is Syrian territory that Israel maintains as a security border after Syria attempted to invade Israel in 1967.  That security zone is part of the cease fire agreement with Syria.  There is no Palestinian population in the Golan Heights.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> A true Denialist, no different than any of the others who will deny anything and everything given to them.
> 
> Answer simple questions?
> 
> Too much for them.


As far as denialists go, you remind me of Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz...


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> You can deny the Islamist history of dhimmitude but your denial won’t change the historical (or in your case, the hysterical) record.


You're denying more than me, twisted sister.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can deny the Islamist history of dhimmitude but your denial won’t change the historical (or in your case, the hysterical) record.
> 
> 
> 
> You're denying more than me, twisted sister.
Click to expand...

And you will not answer the question I posed to you:

If Zionists are not Jews, what are they?


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Did you notice that the article you posted referenced a conviction for the IDF soldiers?
> 
> On the other hand, your Islamic terrorist heroes explicitly wage war from civilian areas with the knowledge and expectation that civilians will be in line of fire when Israel is required to counter the Islamic terrorist threat.
> 
> Really remarkable how you people will willingly put civilians in harms way as a means to further your Jooooo hatreds.


Where are they going to go?  The whole place is a civilian area.  Why is Israel waging war on them?


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Your wounded self-esteem is your own fault.


Nice try..


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can deny the Islamist history of dhimmitude but your denial won’t change the historical (or in your case, the hysterical) record.
> 
> 
> 
> You're denying more than me, twisted sister.
Click to expand...


You can correct your ignorance of history.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Still making excuses for a document in use that defines the goals of your Islamic terrorist heroes.


You're using that document more than I am.  I merely pointed to the fact that it is not being followed any more.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> You’re certainly the expert.


No I am not.  It's what my research has told me.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Odd, up to a year ago the Hamas Charter was still going on strong.
> 
> But you think it is outdated, and they do not follow it anymore.
> 
> Exactly which articles are they not following anymore?
> 
> 
> Hamas: The New Charter That Isn't


Your article doesn't prove what you claim.

Why should they recognize Israel, when Israel won't recognize them?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you notice that the article you posted referenced a conviction for the IDF soldiers?
> 
> On the other hand, your Islamic terrorist heroes explicitly wage war from civilian areas with the knowledge and expectation that civilians will be in line of fire when Israel is required to counter the Islamic terrorist threat.
> 
> Really remarkable how you people will willingly put civilians in harms way as a means to further your Jooooo hatreds.
> 
> 
> 
> Where are they going to go?  The whole place is a civilian area.  Why is Israel waging war on them?
Click to expand...

You keep giving yourself away.

No, you are not a Denialist.

To say that the whole area of Gaza is lived by civilians only is the masterpiece of the BDS movement.

Here are some pictures of the civilians who live in Gaza:

Gaza residents in uniforms and weapons


----------



## fncceo

Billo_Really said:


> It's what my research has told me.


----------



## Billo_Really

fncceo said:


> West Bank and Jerusalem were occupied by Jordan from 1948 to 1967.  During that occupation, the UN had to come in and establish refugee camps to feed the Palestinians because the Jordanians wouldn't.  Why was their no Arab condemnation of that occupation?
> 
> In fact, most of the territory that is home to the Palestinian population of the West Bank is under the full control of the PLO.
> 
> There isn't a single Jew or Israeli soldier in Gaza.   Israel maintains a tightly controlled border between Gaza and Israel.  Egypt maintains the same between their country and Gaza.  Despite that, hundreds of tonnes of food, materials, and medical supplies pass through that border from Israel to Gaza every week.  Thousands of Palestinians from Gaza pass into Israel every year to receive free medical care in Israeli clinics.
> 
> Golan Heights is Syrian territory that Israel maintains as a security border after Syria attempted to invade Israel in 1967.  That security zone is part of the cease fire agreement with Syria.  There is no Palestinian population in the Golan Heights.


There are over 200 UN resolutions that say the opposite.  There isn't a single country on the face of the planet that recognizes Israel's right to that land.

There are over 300 checkpoints and roadblocks prohibiting Palestinian movement in the West Bank.  They are not run by the PLO.

If Israel left Gaza, then why can't Gazan's fish and farm without getting shot at.  BTW, your claim about medical supplies and humanitarian aid is bullshit.  You let in two or three truck loads a day, for an area of 2 million people that requires almost 100 truck loads a day.

If Israel was out of Gaza, there wouldn't be all these protests we've been seeing the past 4 weeks.

After all the shit Israel has done to them, you got a lot of gall talking about what the Pals do in response.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> And you will not answer the question I posed to you:
> 
> If Zionists are not Jews, what are they?


I said, Zionism is not Judaism.  If it was, you wouldn't have the problem you have with orthodox Jews accepting the state of Israel.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> You can correct your ignorance of history.


Nothing to correct.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Well, actually, no. It seems you can’t correct your ignorance.


Tell that to yourself, troll.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> There’s a reason Hamas didn’t hire you as their politburo mouthpiece.


Good for them!


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> You keep giving yourself away.
> 
> No, you are not a Denialist.
> 
> To say that the whole area of Gaza is lived by civilians only is the masterpiece of the BDS movement.
> 
> Here are some pictures of the civilians who live in Gaza:
> 
> Gaza residents in uniforms and weapons


Again, you never deal with the Israeli part of the equation.  If Israel wanted peace, they wouldn't have violated all those ceasefires.


----------



## Billo_Really

fncceo said:


>


Do you have a point?


----------



## fncceo

Billo_Really said:


> If Israel was out of Gaza, there wouldn't be all these protests we've been seeing the past 4 weeks.



Because the protests aren't about Israel in Gaza (who aren't there) .. it's about Israelis in Israel ... since Hamas and the Palestinians consider ALL of Israel to be occupied by Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ These are the Arab Muslims, long before they started calling themselves Palestinians ]
> 
> List of killings and massacres in Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia


Indeed, The Palestinians always opposed the Zionist's settler colonial project.


----------



## Sixties Fan

This is what I was referring to:

<<The difference between then and now, is that Israeli's (not Jews), are the new Nazis.  Israeli's (not Jews), treat the Palestinians much like the Nazis did in the 10 years leading up to the Holocaust.>>>

Now, only the Orthodox Jews are Jews?

Who says so?

And what if Zionism is a political and not Religious cause to bring sovereignty to the Jewish people after the endless Pogroms, not only in Europe but in the Muslim lands, as well?

The Jewish people sought sovereignty on their ancient homeland, and no one else's.

It is returning the Nation to where it belonged, where Jews were always present, regardless of who the invaders, occupiers were.

Bellyache all you like, it is not going to change any historical facts, it is not going to change who attacked whom first, and murdered whom first from 1920 on, instead of choosing to live in peace side by side.

Repeat all the antisemitic things you have learned in the past 40 years, all you like.

The Jewish people are back as sovereign of ONLY 20 % of their homeland, while the Muslims (by force ) got the other 80 %.

The Jewish people are done giving something for nothing, and more land for more war on the part of the Muslims.


----------



## P F Tinmore

fncceo said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Be specific, what parts of Israel is 'occupied'?  How do you account for virulent antisemitism and terror from Gaza that doesn't contain a single Jew?
> 
> 
> 
> The West Bank, East Jerusalem, Golan Heights and as for Gaza, the fact that Israel has not left.  The Israeli's maintain "effective control" over 80% of that area.  That's an occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> West Bank and Jerusalem were occupied by Jordan from 1948 to 1967.  During that occupation, the UN had to come in and establish refugee camps to feed the Palestinians because the Jordanians wouldn't.  Why was their no Arab condemnation of that occupation?
> 
> In fact, most of the territory that is home to the Palestinian population of the West Bank is under the full control of the PLO.
> 
> There isn't a single Jew or Israeli soldier in Gaza.   Israel maintains a tightly controlled border between Gaza and Israel.  Egypt maintains the same between their country and Gaza.  Despite that, hundreds of tonnes of food, materials, and medical supplies pass through that border from Israel to Gaza every week.  Thousands of Palestinians from Gaza pass into Israel every year to receive free medical care in Israeli clinics.
> 
> Golan Heights is Syrian territory that Israel maintains as a security border after Syria attempted to invade Israel in 1967.  That security zone is part of the cease fire agreement with Syria.  There is no Palestinian population in the Golan Heights.
Click to expand...




fncceo said:


> Why was their no Arab condemnation of that occupation?


Because they did not kick them out a steal their land.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ These are the Arab Muslims, long before they started calling themselves Palestinians ]
> 
> List of killings and massacres in Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, The Palestinians always opposed the Zionist's settler colonial project.
Click to expand...

And the Jewish people always opposed the Islamic settler colonial project from the 7th century CE on.

But not once, even during the Mandate, did the Jews raise their hands, or weapons to make the Muslims or Christians leave their homeland.

Keep bellyaching and twisting things to your liking.
You do it so well.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can deny the Islamist history of dhimmitude but your denial won’t change the historical (or in your case, the hysterical) record.
> 
> 
> 
> You're denying more than me, twisted sister.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And you will not answer the question I posed to you:
> 
> If Zionists are not Jews, what are they?
Click to expand...

Crooks.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Be specific, what parts of Israel is 'occupied'?  How do you account for virulent antisemitism and terror from Gaza that doesn't contain a single Jew?
> 
> 
> 
> The West Bank, East Jerusalem, Golan Heights and as for Gaza, the fact that Israel has not left.  The Israeli's maintain "effective control" over 80% of that area.  That's an occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> West Bank and Jerusalem were occupied by Jordan from 1948 to 1967.  During that occupation, the UN had to come in and establish refugee camps to feed the Palestinians because the Jordanians wouldn't.  Why was their no Arab condemnation of that occupation?
> 
> In fact, most of the territory that is home to the Palestinian population of the West Bank is under the full control of the PLO.
> 
> There isn't a single Jew or Israeli soldier in Gaza.   Israel maintains a tightly controlled border between Gaza and Israel.  Egypt maintains the same between their country and Gaza.  Despite that, hundreds of tonnes of food, materials, and medical supplies pass through that border from Israel to Gaza every week.  Thousands of Palestinians from Gaza pass into Israel every year to receive free medical care in Israeli clinics.
> 
> Golan Heights is Syrian territory that Israel maintains as a security border after Syria attempted to invade Israel in 1967.  That security zone is part of the cease fire agreement with Syria.  There is no Palestinian population in the Golan Heights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why was their no Arab condemnation of that occupation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because they did not kick them out a steal their land.
Click to expand...

The Jordanians did indeed steal the land.
They never offered to give those other Arabs the land back in order for them to build any State.  The Jordanians wanted the whole land for themselves and wanted more in 1967.

You were not paying attention.


----------



## flacaltenn

*Can hardly see the topic around here anymore. Don't DERAIL specific topics. Nobody wants to read the same brawl over and over again. At least most people don't.  CLosed. 
*


----------



## Billo_Really

fncceo said:


> Because the protests aren't about Israel in Gaza (who aren't there) .. it's about Israelis in Israel ... since Hamas and the Palestinians consider ALL of Israel to be occupied by Jews.


Wrong!  They're protesting the illegal and immoral blockade.

That's funny you accused me of projecting, while the Israeli's are trying to take all of Palestine.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> The Jordanians did indeed steal the land.
> They never offered to give those other Arabs the land back in order for them to build any State.  The Jordanians wanted the whole land for themselves and wanted more in 1967.
> 
> You were not paying attention.


I don't know about you, but I _WAS_ having fun!


----------



## K9Buck

Billo_Really said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because the protests aren't about Israel in Gaza (who aren't there) .. it's about Israelis in Israel ... since Hamas and the Palestinians consider ALL of Israel to be occupied by Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong!  They're protesting the illegal and immoral blockade.
> 
> That's funny you accused me of projecting, while the Israeli's are trying to take all of Palestine.
Click to expand...


Egypt also blockades Gaza due to Palestinian terrorism.


----------



## fncceo

Billo_Really said:


> Israeli's are trying to take all of Palestine.



Which explains why, since 1967, Israel has given up territory that is greater than the size of Israel’s current borders.


----------



## K9Buck

fncceo said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli's are trying to take all of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which explains why, since 1967, Israel has given up more territory than it currently holds.
Click to expand...


Are you counting the Sinai in that equation?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arab terrorists operating out of the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip infiltrated into Israel early Tuesday morning, apparently as part of a planned attack.

The two terrorists were armed with a knife and grenade, Israeli security officials said, and were apprehended close to Israel’s security fence along the Gaza border shortly after they entered Israeli territory.

(full article online)

Terrorist infiltration on Gaza border, terrorists captured


----------



## Sixties Fan

These photos are from Palestine Today showing a large group of Gazans, including many children, cutting large section of the barbed wire fence in Gaza, which would be the inner fence.

This happened on Monday, according to the photo essay, not during the weekly Friday riots.

Judging from the photos, they dismantled several meters of fence and dragged it back to the tents set up for the staging of the Friday riots.

The photos show no indication of any IDF response.

(vide photos online)

Photos: Gazans, including many children, destroy section of fence to Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to the report, as long as the actions of the civilians do not cross the required threshold of harm, the "law enforcement" paradigm applies as opposed to "conduct of hostilities." The vast majorities of experts believed that it was best to combine the two paradigms into a parallel approach: apply law enforcement to the civilians and conduct of hostilities to the fighters.

Sounds so simple - even a journalist could have come up with it.

But keep in mind that according to those ICRC experts, incidental damage among the civilians would _not_ be prohibited -- as long as the force used is not excessive in relation to the direct military advantage that is anticipated. In other words, as long as disproportionate force is not used.

And we already know what a simple issue that is.

Outside of that, rioting civilians, unlike fighters, cannot be considered to be directly participating in hostilities. Therefore the rioting civilians cannot be targeted using the "conduct of hostilities" paradigm and under International Humanitarian Law, the presence of fighters does not change the overall civilian nature of the group. Again, it sounds straightforward.

However, according to footnote 70 of the report:
 One expert expressed the view however that, in some wholly exceptional cases, _rioting civilians can be considered as directly participating in hostilities_ if they are performing _acts of violence which are specifically designed to harm directly the State_ having to face the riot in support of its enemy. This would be the case, for example, if a riot is led by the enemy in order to destroy the military equipment of the State’s armed forces _or in order to divert attention of the armed forces and conduct a military operation in a nearby village._ In this exceptional situation, the rioters are actually civilians directly participating in hostilities and become targetable under a conduct of hostilities paradigm.According to this opinion, the rioting civilians _can_ be considered to be directly participating in hostilities:

if it is determined that a riot has as its goal to conduct a military operation in a nearby village
if the violence is designed to harm the State facing the riots.
The first case arguably is the current case of the Gaza riots, where one of the clear goals is to infiltrate the border fence...

(full article online)

What does the ICRC say about civilians rioting in support of a military objective? (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas Leadership Divided Over 'March of Return' | HonestReporting


----------



## Billo_Really

fncceo said:


> Which explains why, since 1967, Israel has given up territory that is greater than the size of Israel’s current borders.


I'm sorry, this thread is no longer fun any more.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Shurat Hadin Israel Law Center is seeking International Criminal Court action against Hamas over the terrorist group’s use of children as human shields in the riots that have taken place over the past month on the Israel-Gaza Strip border.

The lawsuit is based on a clause in the Rome Statute, the treaty that established the ICC’s work, which says that recruiting children under the age of 15 to any militant organization is a war crime.

The suit names former Hamas chief Khaled Mashaal, current deputy leader Saleh al-Arouri, and moneyman Zahar Jabarin as guilty of war crimes, saying that as all three are nationals of Jordan, which is a signatory to the Rome Statute, they are subject to the court’s jurisdiction.

(full article online)

Israeli Group Seeks ICC Action Against Hamas for Using Children as Shields


----------



## Sixties Fan

The first type of statement claims that Palestinians are entitled to demonstrate peacefully, suggesting that Israel was trying to stop the Gazans from doing so. Those who made this statement knew the truth: the demonstrations were not peaceful, and included violent attempts to breach the border with Israel. Among those whose statements stressed the Palestinian right to “peaceful demonstrations” were the European Union, France, US senators Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders, and J Street.

The second type consisted of calling for “restraint.” This came in two versions: either calling for Israeli restraint alone, or calling for restraint from both Israel and Hamas — thereby equating the two. Statements about restraint on both sides were made by the EU, the deputy prime minister of Ireland,  J Street, and Russia. Other statements that addressed only Israel came from France, Senator Warren, and the head of the Union of Reform Judaism, Rabbi Rick Jacobs.

In reality, the Israel Defense Forces are among the most humane and peaceful armies to have ever existed on the planet. Amos Guiora, a professor at the University of Utah, has described the many codes that the Israeli army follows concerning morality and ethics in combat. It is doubtful whether anything similar exists elsewhere. These codes have been praised by several Western armies.

The third type of statement includes asking for an independent investigation of the events in question. Here we find the EU in the company of the deputy prime minister of Ireland and Kuwait. Those who make this claim know full well that the logical candidates for such pseudo-independent investigations are United Nations associate bodies. The best known such investigation was the report by the Goldstone committee, which was so extremely distorted that in 2011 editors Gerald Steinberg and Anne Herzberg were able to publish an entire book about its massive bias.

The fourth type of statement concerns the proportionality of Israeli actions. This implies that Israel’s actions are not proportionate. Here we find the EU and France, along with Iran, Turkey, and Russia.

(full article online)

Urging ‘Restraint’ and Other Anti-Israel Mischief


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Satire ]

By Stan Dartkafuhl, legal scholar







The position of the international community on the subject of the 1949 armistice lines between Israel and Jordan, and between Israel and Egypt, has long been clear: Israeli control of any territories beyond those lines constitutes an illegal occupation, and Israel's permanent border must follow the lines on the armistice map that determined boundaries until the Six-Day War of 1967. Any Israeli activity beyond that frontier violates international law. When Palestinians do it in the other direction, however, as with the Great Return March in Gaza, that's fine.

Under normal circumstances international law does not distinguish between an armed invasion or one that features no weapons; an organized crossing of an internationally recognized border without the consent of the government on the other side of that border constitutes a bona fide invasion. That much was established regarding Morocco's annexation of Western Sahara. Masses of unarmed Moroccans simply marched across the border, set up settlements, and there we stand today, with the official position of international legal experts characterizing the influx of Moroccans as an invasion, the repulsion of which justified the use of lethal force. Sovereignty has value in international law.

But not for Israel, which is barred from preventing thousands of Gazans from destroying the border fence and entering pre-1967 Israel. In international law as practiced in modern times, Jewish sovereignty is not like other sovereignty. Other sovereign entities are entitled to protect their sovereignty, by lethal force if necessary, under all circumstances; the Jewish State, on the other hand, must bow to the will of genocidal hordes who have been taught from birth that Jews are inherently evil and must be destroyed. It's the law.

Others may quibble about the current status of those lines given the possibility of a negotiated settlement between Israel and the Palestinians that might involve adjustment of the border, but the principle remains operative regardless of the final boundaries under any agreement. Case in point: the armistice was signed with Jordan, which has since renounced any claims to territory west of the Jordan River - and Israeli agreements with the Palestinians at Oslo only grant Palestinians self-rule in specific population centers of that territory. Nevertheless, the international community automatically sees Israeli control of the balance of the territory as a violation, because Jews. You know how it is.

One day a case might come before the World Court or the International Criminal Court that will formalize this principle and enshrine it in case law, but until then, it will have to be maintained through repetition: only Israeli actions have legal significance.

The 1967 Lines Are Sacrosanct Unless Palestinians Violate Them (PreOccupied Territory) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  Surprise, surprise, surprise.....only for those who are not paying attention ]

A top Hamas official warned on Wednesday that the ongoing Gaza border demonstrations — expected to reach their peak on May 15, known as “Nakba Day” by the Palestinians — would continue afterward, the Hebrew news outlet Maariv reported.

The protests, Ismail Haniyeh asserted in a speech, have drawn global attention back to the Palestinians and revived the issue of the so-called “right of return” of Arab refugees from the 1948 War.

He also predicted that the “Great March of Return” demonstrations would spread to Palestinian Authority-ruled areas of the West Bank.

(full article online)

Top Hamas Official Warns: Gaza Border Protests Will Continue After May 15


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Satire ]
> 
> By Stan Dartkafuhl, legal scholar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The position of the international community on the subject of the 1949 armistice lines between Israel and Jordan, and between Israel and Egypt, has long been clear: Israeli control of any territories beyond those lines constitutes an illegal occupation, and Israel's permanent border must follow the lines on the armistice map that determined boundaries until the Six-Day War of 1967. Any Israeli activity beyond that frontier violates international law. When Palestinians do it in the other direction, however, as with the Great Return March in Gaza, that's fine.
> 
> Under normal circumstances international law does not distinguish between an armed invasion or one that features no weapons; an organized crossing of an internationally recognized border without the consent of the government on the other side of that border constitutes a bona fide invasion. That much was established regarding Morocco's annexation of Western Sahara. Masses of unarmed Moroccans simply marched across the border, set up settlements, and there we stand today, with the official position of international legal experts characterizing the influx of Moroccans as an invasion, the repulsion of which justified the use of lethal force. Sovereignty has value in international law.
> 
> But not for Israel, which is barred from preventing thousands of Gazans from destroying the border fence and entering pre-1967 Israel. In international law as practiced in modern times, Jewish sovereignty is not like other sovereignty. Other sovereign entities are entitled to protect their sovereignty, by lethal force if necessary, under all circumstances; the Jewish State, on the other hand, must bow to the will of genocidal hordes who have been taught from birth that Jews are inherently evil and must be destroyed. It's the law.
> 
> Others may quibble about the current status of those lines given the possibility of a negotiated settlement between Israel and the Palestinians that might involve adjustment of the border, but the principle remains operative regardless of the final boundaries under any agreement. Case in point: the armistice was signed with Jordan, which has since renounced any claims to territory west of the Jordan River - and Israeli agreements with the Palestinians at Oslo only grant Palestinians self-rule in specific population centers of that territory. Nevertheless, the international community automatically sees Israeli control of the balance of the territory as a violation, because Jews. You know how it is.
> 
> One day a case might come before the World Court or the International Criminal Court that will formalize this principle and enshrine it in case law, but until then, it will have to be maintained through repetition: only Israeli actions have legal significance.
> 
> The 1967 Lines Are Sacrosanct Unless Palestinians Violate Them (PreOccupied Territory) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



Yep. This. 

If Jews want to return to their indigenous territory over the Green line they are 'building illegal settlements' and 'blocking the peace process'. But if Arabs want to return over the Green line they are seen as heroes 

Hypocrisy anyone?  Is the Green line to be upheld or is it not?  You can't have it both ways.


----------



## Sixties Fan

While all eyes are set on the weekly demonstrations organized by Hamas and other Palestinian factions along the border between the Gaza Strip and Israel, as part of the so-called March of Return, a Palestinian refugee camp near Damascus is facing a wide-scale military offensive and ethnic cleansing by the Syrian army and its allies.

The war crimes committed against the Palestinians in Yarmouk camp have so far failed to prompt an ounce of outrage, much less the sort of outcry emerging from the international community over the events of the past four weeks along the border between the Gaza Strip and Israel.

The international community seems to differentiate between a Palestinian shot by an Israeli soldier and a Palestinian shot by a Syrian soldier.

(full article online)

220 Airstrikes on Palestinians in Syria; World Yawns


----------



## Sixties Fan

Still 80% of Gazans killed in border riots linked to terror groups ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The senior Hamas officials said the movement has learned from mistakes, such as confronting Israel’s powerful military with rocket fire. Although Hamas remains avowedly committed to destroying Israel, the unnamed officials said Hamas was offering Israel an open-ended truce in exchange for lifting the blockade.

Hamas says it wants to keep its weapons for defensive purposes — a claim belied by the group’s ongoing tunnel program and rocket use. Hamas has been building tunnels from Gaza into Israel in recent years, for attacks; Israel has been systematically locating and destroying them, most recently earlier this month.

Hamas “is changing its tactics, but it’s not changing its nature and strategies,” said Palestinian analyst Abdel Majed Sweilem.


(full article online)

Hamas claims to be embracing ‘nonviolence’ through deadly border protests


----------



## Sixties Fan

The article begins:

"Forty Palestinians have been killed and 5,511 were wounded in the mass protests along the border fence between the Gaza Strip and Israel since March 30, the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs reported on Tuesday. The protests have been held every Friday since then."


You’d think, if you were going to have one headline number, it would be the number killed and the text says 40 while the graphic says 39. Which is it? Or is Ha’aretz here just implying that one more or less dead Palestinian isn’t that big of a deal (it certainly wouldn’t be in Syria if it was Assad doing the bombing).

Next we now have 1,499 hit by “Live ammunition”. Amira Haas a day or two ago had 1,700. Where did the other 201 go?

"The information is based on figures from the Palestinian Health Ministry in Gaza and OCHA says the data is a preliminary snapshot only and further information is pending."

So the same Hamas sources as before. Making it even more astonishing that they differ so wildly within a couple of days.

In what I knew to be a fairly fruitless exercise I plugged the specific geographically broken down numbers shown above into a spreadsheet so I could figure out the actual lethality of IDF bullets by region across the Gaza Strip. I used the pie chart to figure out percentages and applied these to get a Live Fire kill rate up and down the strip.

(full article online)

Yet More Blind Dissemination Of Hamas Propaganda By Ha’aretz


----------



## Sixties Fan

While Mandela and his ANC party did employ violence in the struggle against South African apartheid, it is an insult to both Gandhi and Martin Luther King that Hamas can make any comparison between itself and the advocates of real non-violence.

According to the Martin Luther King, Jr. Research and Education Institute at Stanford University, King’s notion of non-violence had six key principles, including:


One can resist evil without resorting to violence;
Non-violence seeks to win the “friendship and understanding” of the opponent, not to humiliate him;
Those committed to nonviolence must be willing to suffer without retaliation as suffering itself can be redemptive;
The resister should be motivated by love in the sense of  “understanding,” or “redeeming good will for all men.”
Does this really sound like Hamas’s definition of non-violent protest?

This is the reality of the protests at the Gaza border:






Why is it non-violent when Palestinians throw stones and firebombs yet anyone else would be arrested and prosecuted for doing the same thing in another country? Is it the bigotry of low expectations that judges Palestinians by such low standards of what constitutes non-violent activities?

(full article online)

AP Exposes Hamas Definition of 'Non-Violence' | HonestReporting


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Still 80% of Gazans killed in border riots linked to terror groups ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Not really. In Palestine they are constitutionally protected political parties.

They are only "terror groups" to the foreign, third grade, name callers.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> While Mandela and his ANC party did employ violence in the struggle against South African apartheid, it is an insult to both Gandhi and Martin Luther King that Hamas can make any comparison between itself and the advocates of real non-violence.
> 
> According to the Martin Luther King, Jr. Research and Education Institute at Stanford University, King’s notion of non-violence had six key principles, including:
> 
> 
> One can resist evil without resorting to violence;
> Non-violence seeks to win the “friendship and understanding” of the opponent, not to humiliate him;
> Those committed to nonviolence must be willing to suffer without retaliation as suffering itself can be redemptive;
> The resister should be motivated by love in the sense of  “understanding,” or “redeeming good will for all men.”
> Does this really sound like Hamas’s definition of non-violent protest?
> 
> This is the reality of the protests at the Gaza border:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it non-violent when Palestinians throw stones and firebombs yet anyone else would be arrested and prosecuted for doing the same thing in another country? Is it the bigotry of low expectations that judges Palestinians by such low standards of what constitutes non-violent activities?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> AP Exposes Hamas Definition of 'Non-Violence' | HonestReporting


There is no legal requirement for occupied people to be non violent. Violence might not be the best tactic, but no Palestinians are going to The Hague.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> While Mandela and his ANC party did employ violence in the struggle against South African apartheid, it is an insult to both Gandhi and Martin Luther King that Hamas can make any comparison between itself and the advocates of real non-violence.
> 
> According to the Martin Luther King, Jr. Research and Education Institute at Stanford University, King’s notion of non-violence had six key principles, including:
> 
> 
> One can resist evil without resorting to violence;
> Non-violence seeks to win the “friendship and understanding” of the opponent, not to humiliate him;
> Those committed to nonviolence must be willing to suffer without retaliation as suffering itself can be redemptive;
> The resister should be motivated by love in the sense of  “understanding,” or “redeeming good will for all men.”
> Does this really sound like Hamas’s definition of non-violent protest?
> 
> This is the reality of the protests at the Gaza border:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it non-violent when Palestinians throw stones and firebombs yet anyone else would be arrested and prosecuted for doing the same thing in another country? Is it the bigotry of low expectations that judges Palestinians by such low standards of what constitutes non-violent activities?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> AP Exposes Hamas Definition of 'Non-Violence' | HonestReporting
> 
> 
> 
> There is no legal requirement for occupied people to be non violent. Violence might not be the best tactic, but no Palestinians are going to The Hague.
Click to expand...


There is no reason to expect Islamic terrorists to be non violent. Islamic terrorists should expect their violence to be met with an appropriate response.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still 80% of Gazans killed in border riots linked to terror groups ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. In Palestine they are constitutionally protected political parties.
> 
> They are only "terror groups" to the foreign, third grade, name callers.
Click to expand...


Funny that you Islamics have a vastly different view of a constitution vs. non Islamics. 


The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988

*Article Five:*
Time extent of the Islamic Resistance Movement: By adopting Islam as its way of life, the Movement goes back to the time of the birth of the Islamic message, of the righteous ancestor, for Allah is its target, the Prophet is its example and the Koran is its constitution.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> While Mandela and his ANC party did employ violence in the struggle against South African apartheid, it is an insult to both Gandhi and Martin Luther King that Hamas can make any comparison between itself and the advocates of real non-violence.
> 
> According to the Martin Luther King, Jr. Research and Education Institute at Stanford University, King’s notion of non-violence had six key principles, including:
> 
> 
> One can resist evil without resorting to violence;
> Non-violence seeks to win the “friendship and understanding” of the opponent, not to humiliate him;
> Those committed to nonviolence must be willing to suffer without retaliation as suffering itself can be redemptive;
> The resister should be motivated by love in the sense of  “understanding,” or “redeeming good will for all men.”
> Does this really sound like Hamas’s definition of non-violent protest?
> 
> This is the reality of the protests at the Gaza border:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it non-violent when Palestinians throw stones and firebombs yet anyone else would be arrested and prosecuted for doing the same thing in another country? Is it the bigotry of low expectations that judges Palestinians by such low standards of what constitutes non-violent activities?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> AP Exposes Hamas Definition of 'Non-Violence' | HonestReporting
> 
> 
> 
> There is no legal requirement for occupied people to be non violent. Violence might not be the best tactic, but no Palestinians are going to The Hague.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no reason to expect Islamic terrorists to be non violent. Islamic terrorists should expect their violence to be met with an appropriate response.
Click to expand...

Israel's settler colonial project is constant violence.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> While Mandela and his ANC party did employ violence in the struggle against South African apartheid, it is an insult to both Gandhi and Martin Luther King that Hamas can make any comparison between itself and the advocates of real non-violence.
> 
> According to the Martin Luther King, Jr. Research and Education Institute at Stanford University, King’s notion of non-violence had six key principles, including:
> 
> 
> One can resist evil without resorting to violence;
> Non-violence seeks to win the “friendship and understanding” of the opponent, not to humiliate him;
> Those committed to nonviolence must be willing to suffer without retaliation as suffering itself can be redemptive;
> The resister should be motivated by love in the sense of  “understanding,” or “redeeming good will for all men.”
> Does this really sound like Hamas’s definition of non-violent protest?
> 
> This is the reality of the protests at the Gaza border:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it non-violent when Palestinians throw stones and firebombs yet anyone else would be arrested and prosecuted for doing the same thing in another country? Is it the bigotry of low expectations that judges Palestinians by such low standards of what constitutes non-violent activities?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> AP Exposes Hamas Definition of 'Non-Violence' | HonestReporting
> 
> 
> 
> There is no legal requirement for occupied people to be non violent. Violence might not be the best tactic, but no Palestinians are going to The Hague.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no reason to expect Islamic terrorists to be non violent. Islamic terrorists should expect their violence to be met with an appropriate response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's settler colonial project is constant violence.
Click to expand...


It is the muhammedan settler colonial project which is bringing a war to the Israeli border.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



*Q. If so then... will You notify the Caliph?*

PLO chief Mahmoud Abbas 





Abbas tribe
The *Banu Abbas* (Arabic: بنو عباس‎) are an Arabian tribe, descendants of Al-‘Abbas ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib. The caliphs of the Banu Abbas served as heads of the Muslim community for a period of five centuries (from 750 until the sack of Baghdad in 1258).[2] *This was the Abbasid caliphate.*


----------



## Coyote

Another journalist has been killed.

Palestinian journalist, shot by Israeli troops at Gaza protest, dies


----------



## Indeependent

Coyote said:


> Another journalist has been killed.
> 
> Palestinian journalist, shot by Israeli troops at Gaza protest, dies


Did they remove his homicide belt before taking him to the hospital?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  A member of the Hussein family (?) does not mention Hamas and the weapons, the firebombs, and attempts to destroy the security fence of a sovereign country.     Surprise ! 
How did he get that title is what I would like to know. ]


The UN’s High Commissioner for Human Rights accuses Israel of using excessive force during weekly mass riots along its border with the Gaza Strip.

“Every week, we witness instances of use of lethal force against unarmed demonstrators,” says Zeid Ra’ad Al Hussein in a statement. “Warnings by the United Nations and others have seemingly gone unheeded, as the approach of the security forces from week to week does not seem to have changed.”

“The loss of life is deplorable, and the staggering number of injuries caused by live ammunition only confirms the sense that excessive force has been used against demonstrators – not once, not twice, but repeatedly,” he adds.

The statement makes no mention of Hamas, the terror group that runs Gaza and is committed to Israel’s destruction.

Hamas has encouraged the weekly clashes, which have seen protesters burn tires, throw rocks and firebombs at Israeli troops, fly flaming kites over the border, and attempt to destroy the border fence.

(full article online)

UN rights czar slams Israeli response to Gaza clashes, makes no mention of Hamas


----------



## Sixties Fan

Images out of #Gaza today. Notice the last picture with children taking part in the #GreatReturnMarch. As @riotgoy says: “You really shouldn’t be publishing pictures of parents having great big lunches while their kids get sent off to get shot by the #IDF”















Anna Ahronheim on Twitter


----------



## Sixties Fan

Today, #Hamas organized another "#GreatReturnMarch" of violent riots and youths trying to sabotage the Israel-#Gaza fence & fly firebombs toward Israeli communities. Israel will continue to protect its citizens from Hamas' terrorists.

















Israel Foreign Min. on Twitter


----------



## Sixties Fan

During the so-called “Great Return March,” Palestinians at the border have displayed flags embroidered with the Nazi symbol. Images, including video, of these flags have been published by The Times of Israel and were highlighted by the Israeli Defense Forces spokesperson in an April 6 tweet captioned: “No words needed.”

And indeed, major U.S. and international news outlets offered precisely that: no words.

The presence of that flag during the violent demonstrations went unmentioned in the dozens of reports filed by major U.S. news outlets, including The Washington Post, The New York Times, USA Today and others. Dozens of reporters, photographers and film crews have been present at the border, providing coverage. The Washington Post alone has published no fewer than seven reports and one editorial on the “march.” Yet not one noted the Nazi flag, which offered a good indication of what many of those massed at Israel’s border want: the genocide of Jews, which Hamas’s Mein Kampf-quoting charter calls for.

Other seemingly hard-to-miss indicators have appeared. On April 20 (Hitler’s birthday), “Palestinians at the Gaza border flew a kite marked with a swastika and carrying a petrol bomb into Israel,” The Times of Israel reported. Once again, the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit distributed pictures and video of the kite. And yet again, major U.S. news outlets failed to report it.

(full article online)

Palestinian Nazi flags and Hamas talking points


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF says ‘hundreds’ try to breach Gaza fence; 3 killed, over 300 hurt in clashes


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gaza rioters try to burn security fence


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

I’m just back home in the U.S. from a visit to Israel, where for four straight Fridays the Hamas terrorist group that rules the Gaza Strip has organized protests at the border with Israel involving thousands of Palestinians. Some of the protesters have attacked Israel’s border security fence “with explosives, firebombs and other means,” The Associated Press reported.

“Huge plumes of smoke from burning tires (set afire by demonstrators) engulfed the border area,” the AP reported from the scene. “Some of the activists` threw stones toward the fence or flew kites with flaming rags dangling from their tails.”

In other words, what’s happening on the Gaza-Israel border is not a peaceful protest. While most protesters aren’t joining in the violence, some are violent and dangerous terrorists who want to tear down Israel’s security fence to make it easy to launch deadly attacks on the Jewish state.

Acting to defend their nation, Israeli forces have killed 34 Palestinian attackers along the border since the protests began March 30, despite the best efforts by the Israelis to use the minimal force required.

No nation on Earth would welcome terrorist murderers to cross its borders to take the lives of innocent civilians. And if terrorists assaulted any other border on the planet, the number of attackers killed would undoubtedly be much higher.

The protests are scheduled to end with a massive Palestinian march on the border May 15, the 70th anniversary (on the secular calendar) of Israel gaining independence from Britain.

You might think the United Nations and countries around the world would be condemning the violent protests – but you’d be wrong. Israel’s s actions to defend its border prompted the usual Israel-bashing at the U.N., in the media, and wherever left gathers to condemn the only democracy in the Middle East.

In Gaza, Hamas is the oppressor -- not Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

(full article online)

Next Time You Read About a Palestinian Member of “Press” Getting Killed, Remember These Images


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> I’m just back home in the U.S. from a visit to Israel, where for four straight Fridays the Hamas terrorist group that rules the Gaza Strip has organized protests at the border with Israel involving thousands of Palestinians. Some of the protesters have attacked Israel’s border security fence “with explosives, firebombs and other means,” The Associated Press reported.
> 
> “Huge plumes of smoke from burning tires (set afire by demonstrators) engulfed the border area,” the AP reported from the scene. “Some of the activists` threw stones toward the fence or flew kites with flaming rags dangling from their tails.”
> 
> In other words, what’s happening on the Gaza-Israel border is not a peaceful protest. While most protesters aren’t joining in the violence, some are violent and dangerous terrorists who want to tear down Israel’s security fence to make it easy to launch deadly attacks on the Jewish state.
> 
> Acting to defend their nation, Israeli forces have killed 34 Palestinian attackers along the border since the protests began March 30, despite the best efforts by the Israelis to use the minimal force required.
> 
> No nation on Earth would welcome terrorist murderers to cross its borders to take the lives of innocent civilians. And if terrorists assaulted any other border on the planet, the number of attackers killed would undoubtedly be much higher.
> 
> The protests are scheduled to end with a massive Palestinian march on the border May 15, the 70th anniversary (on the secular calendar) of Israel gaining independence from Britain.
> 
> You might think the United Nations and countries around the world would be condemning the violent protests – but you’d be wrong. Israel’s s actions to defend its border prompted the usual Israel-bashing at the U.N., in the media, and wherever left gathers to condemn the only democracy in the Middle East.
> 
> In Gaza, Hamas is the oppressor -- not Israel





Sixties Fan said:


> May 15, the 70th anniversary (on the secular calendar) of Israel gaining independence from Britain.


Interesting that Israel's war of independence was not fought with Britain.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m just back home in the U.S. from a visit to Israel, where for four straight Fridays the Hamas terrorist group that rules the Gaza Strip has organized protests at the border with Israel involving thousands of Palestinians. Some of the protesters have attacked Israel’s border security fence “with explosives, firebombs and other means,” The Associated Press reported.
> 
> “Huge plumes of smoke from burning tires (set afire by demonstrators) engulfed the border area,” the AP reported from the scene. “Some of the activists` threw stones toward the fence or flew kites with flaming rags dangling from their tails.”
> 
> In other words, what’s happening on the Gaza-Israel border is not a peaceful protest. While most protesters aren’t joining in the violence, some are violent and dangerous terrorists who want to tear down Israel’s security fence to make it easy to launch deadly attacks on the Jewish state.
> 
> Acting to defend their nation, Israeli forces have killed 34 Palestinian attackers along the border since the protests began March 30, despite the best efforts by the Israelis to use the minimal force required.
> 
> No nation on Earth would welcome terrorist murderers to cross its borders to take the lives of innocent civilians. And if terrorists assaulted any other border on the planet, the number of attackers killed would undoubtedly be much higher.
> 
> The protests are scheduled to end with a massive Palestinian march on the border May 15, the 70th anniversary (on the secular calendar) of Israel gaining independence from Britain.
> 
> You might think the United Nations and countries around the world would be condemning the violent protests – but you’d be wrong. Israel’s s actions to defend its border prompted the usual Israel-bashing at the U.N., in the media, and wherever left gathers to condemn the only democracy in the Middle East.
> 
> In Gaza, Hamas is the oppressor -- not Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> May 15, the 70th anniversary (on the secular calendar) of Israel gaining independence from Britain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting that Israel's war of independence was not fought with Britain.
Click to expand...


Britain does not have a 1400 year old history of religiously inspired Jew hatred. 

That is unique to Islamism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> (full article online)
> 
> Next Time You Read About a Palestinian Member of “Press” Getting Killed, Remember These Images


He is just ducking out of the way. Do you have a point.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m just back home in the U.S. from a visit to Israel, where for four straight Fridays the Hamas terrorist group that rules the Gaza Strip has organized protests at the border with Israel involving thousands of Palestinians. Some of the protesters have attacked Israel’s border security fence “with explosives, firebombs and other means,” The Associated Press reported.
> 
> “Huge plumes of smoke from burning tires (set afire by demonstrators) engulfed the border area,” the AP reported from the scene. “Some of the activists` threw stones toward the fence or flew kites with flaming rags dangling from their tails.”
> 
> In other words, what’s happening on the Gaza-Israel border is not a peaceful protest. While most protesters aren’t joining in the violence, some are violent and dangerous terrorists who want to tear down Israel’s security fence to make it easy to launch deadly attacks on the Jewish state.
> 
> Acting to defend their nation, Israeli forces have killed 34 Palestinian attackers along the border since the protests began March 30, despite the best efforts by the Israelis to use the minimal force required.
> 
> No nation on Earth would welcome terrorist murderers to cross its borders to take the lives of innocent civilians. And if terrorists assaulted any other border on the planet, the number of attackers killed would undoubtedly be much higher.
> 
> The protests are scheduled to end with a massive Palestinian march on the border May 15, the 70th anniversary (on the secular calendar) of Israel gaining independence from Britain.
> 
> You might think the United Nations and countries around the world would be condemning the violent protests – but you’d be wrong. Israel’s s actions to defend its border prompted the usual Israel-bashing at the U.N., in the media, and wherever left gathers to condemn the only democracy in the Middle East.
> 
> In Gaza, Hamas is the oppressor -- not Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> May 15, the 70th anniversary (on the secular calendar) of Israel gaining independence from Britain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting that Israel's war of independence was not fought with Britain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Britain does not have a 1400 year old history of religiously inspired Jew hatred.
> 
> That is unique to Islamism.
Click to expand...

Deflection.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Next Time You Read About a Palestinian Member of “Press” Getting Killed, Remember These Images
> 
> 
> 
> He is just ducking out of the way. Do you have a point.
Click to expand...


Why was he in an Islamic war zone?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m just back home in the U.S. from a visit to Israel, where for four straight Fridays the Hamas terrorist group that rules the Gaza Strip has organized protests at the border with Israel involving thousands of Palestinians. Some of the protesters have attacked Israel’s border security fence “with explosives, firebombs and other means,” The Associated Press reported.
> 
> “Huge plumes of smoke from burning tires (set afire by demonstrators) engulfed the border area,” the AP reported from the scene. “Some of the activists` threw stones toward the fence or flew kites with flaming rags dangling from their tails.”
> 
> In other words, what’s happening on the Gaza-Israel border is not a peaceful protest. While most protesters aren’t joining in the violence, some are violent and dangerous terrorists who want to tear down Israel’s security fence to make it easy to launch deadly attacks on the Jewish state.
> 
> Acting to defend their nation, Israeli forces have killed 34 Palestinian attackers along the border since the protests began March 30, despite the best efforts by the Israelis to use the minimal force required.
> 
> No nation on Earth would welcome terrorist murderers to cross its borders to take the lives of innocent civilians. And if terrorists assaulted any other border on the planet, the number of attackers killed would undoubtedly be much higher.
> 
> The protests are scheduled to end with a massive Palestinian march on the border May 15, the 70th anniversary (on the secular calendar) of Israel gaining independence from Britain.
> 
> You might think the United Nations and countries around the world would be condemning the violent protests – but you’d be wrong. Israel’s s actions to defend its border prompted the usual Israel-bashing at the U.N., in the media, and wherever left gathers to condemn the only democracy in the Middle East.
> 
> In Gaza, Hamas is the oppressor -- not Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> May 15, the 70th anniversary (on the secular calendar) of Israel gaining independence from Britain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting that Israel's war of independence was not fought with Britain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Britain does not have a 1400 year old history of religiously inspired Jew hatred.
> 
> That is unique to Islamism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
Click to expand...


I knew you wouldn’t be able to address my comment. You’re reduced to retreating to your usual cut and paste slogans.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israeli army releases footage showing ‘hundreds’ trying to breach Gaza fence


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Israeli army releases footage showing ‘hundreds’ trying to breach Gaza fence


Hey Israel. If you fuck with a lot of people you are going to have a lot of problems.

Have any of those clowns in Israel gone to Gaza to try to deflate the situation there?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Have any of those clowns in Israel gone to Gaza to try to deflate the situation there?



Israel deflated the Islamic terrorists in 2014.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  *Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border *
※→  Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, interesting.  Exactly what did you have in mind for the Israeli action to → "deflate the situation there?"



Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have any of those clowns in Israel gone to Gaza to try to deflate the situation there?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel deflated the Islamic terrorists in 2014.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Exactly, what role do you want Israel to play inside the Gaza Strip?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  *Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border *
> ※→  Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, interesting.  Exactly what did you have in mind for the Israeli action to → "deflate the situation there?"
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have any of those clowns in Israel gone to Gaza to try to deflate the situation there?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel deflated the Islamic terrorists in 2014.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Exactly, what role do you want Israel to play inside the Gaza Strip?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

They pretend to be intelligent, surely they can think of something.

Perhaps if they go there they might learn something.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border *
> ※→  Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, interesting.  Exactly what did you have in mind for the Israeli action to → "deflate the situation there?"
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have any of those clowns in Israel gone to Gaza to try to deflate the situation there?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel deflated the Islamic terrorists in 2014.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Exactly, what role do you want Israel to play inside the Gaza Strip?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They pretend to be intelligent, surely they can think of something.
> 
> Perhaps if they go there they might learn something.
Click to expand...

Except....it is usually the Arabs who go into Israel for education, health and jobs and they are the ones who end up learning a lot.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

mudwhistle said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'
> 
> 
> 
> Cluster bomb those a-holes.
Click to expand...


typical igmorant post of worshipping a war monger country.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

P F Tinmore said:


> Mainstream media only has a framework of violence to understand the Question of Palestine, which makes it ill-equipped to understand and explain one of the largest civil protests among Palestinians in recent history. That is why the media sounds like it is trying to shove a square into a circle as it fails to explicitly say Israel executed 18 Palestinians and injured 1400 others where no lethal threat was posed and while Palestinians were literally on their own lands in the buffer zone - 300-500 meters of agricultural lands Israel arbitrarily marked as a buffer zone- and not even at Israel's undeclared militarized border.
> 
> This is about Israel's settler anxiety and the inability to make Palestinians disappear- they have not forgotten, not assimilated into other countries, and struggle to return motivated by love and belonging. ~ Noura Erakat




you just owned and took the Israel apologists to school.

Israel has to scramble for excuses. They can't use the old rocket canard on this one.

amen brutha.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  *Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border *
> ※→  Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, interesting.  Exactly what did you have in mind for the Israeli action to → "deflate the situation there?"
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have any of those clowns in Israel gone to Gaza to try to deflate the situation there?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel deflated the Islamic terrorists in 2014.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Exactly, what role do you want Israel to play inside the Gaza Strip?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They pretend to be intelligent, surely they can think of something.
> 
> Perhaps if they go there they might learn something.
Click to expand...


Why would they go there?

The Islamist mini caliphate of Gaza'istan is _Judenrein_ and the competing mini caliphate of fatah'istan has declared "no Jews allowed".

Shirley, you know this.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Andylusion said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mainstream media only has a framework of violence to understand the Question of Palestine, which makes it ill-equipped to understand and explain one of the largest civil protests among Palestinians in recent history. That is why the media sounds like it is trying to shove a square into a circle as it fails to explicitly say Israel executed 18 Palestinians and injured 1400 others where no lethal threat was posed and while Palestinians were literally on their own lands in the buffer zone - 300-500 meters of agricultural lands Israel arbitrarily marked as a buffer zone- and not even at Israel's undeclared militarized border.
> 
> This is about Israel's settler anxiety and the inability to make Palestinians disappear- they have not forgotten, not assimilated into other countries, and struggle to return motivated by love and belonging. ~ Noura Erakat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would be because there is no question.  Israel belongs to Israelis.  Murderous terrorist belong no where.
> 
> You can write this down, and post it on a calendar with my name by it.
> 
> Palestinians will disappear.  They will either disappear by choice, or they will disappear by death.   But they will disappear.
Click to expand...


yep those murderous terrorists Israel indeed do not belong anywhere you are correct.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Rambunctious said:


> The so called Palestinians want all Jews to leave the middle east and give over Israel to them because the Palestinians don't want to live with Jews...they are religious bigots....I say if they are massing on the border it's a good thing...take em all out...the world does not need religious bigots...



you been listening way too much to what the CIA/mossad  media has told you,otherway around charlie.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

P F Tinmore said:


> WOW, Israel's bullshit machine is running on overtime.



Read your last several posts. 

thats all the Israel worshippers CAN post is bullshit and lies when they are backed up against the wall with nowhere to run on their corruption.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In a column published in _Haaretz_ last week, Gaza native Muhammad Shehada defended the demonstrations as a necessary response to Israel’s partial blockade, on which he blamed all of Gaza’s woes. His younger brother, he said, has participated in them almost daily. He himself is currently studying in Sweden but formerly worked for an anti-Israel “human rights” organization in Gaza. In short, he’s hardly an Israeli shill. Nevertheless, he noted that even Hamas believes Israel’s fire has been far from indiscriminate:
> 
> 
> "Despite the seemingly arbitrary live-fire and tear gas raining down on the protestors … Hamas believes the victims are carefully selected. “Israel knows who to wound, maim or kill,” a Hamas leader told me by phone. At least 10 young men, affiliated with Hamas and its Qassam brigades, have been shot while maintaining order at the protest."
> 
> 
> Hamas believes Israel is deploying facial recognition technologies besides the numerous war-drones that obliterate the sky above. The movement warned its members to keep their faces covered, and leave their phones at home.
> 
> This is what Israel has said all along. A report published last week by the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center (an organization founded by former Israeli intelligence officials that maintain close ties with the intelligence agencies) concluded that 80 percent of the people killed during the Gaza demonstrations–26 out of 32–were members of terrorist organizations. This conclusion wasn’t based on any secret intelligence; in each case, a terrorist organization publicly claimed the deceased as a member and buried him in the organization’s flag or published pictures of him in military dress holding a gun. This finding also explains why all but two of the dead were men between the ages of 19 and 45: Unlike the terrorists, actual civilians have largely kept their distance from the border fence.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas and Israel Agree: Slain Protesters Weren’t Civilians | Evelyn Gordon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 80 percent of the people killed during the Gaza demonstrations–26 out of 32–were members of terrorist organizations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mere membership does not matter. They have to be actively engaged in armed activity.
Click to expand...



Logic and common sense of course never registers with the Israel apologists here.


----------



## rylah

LA RAM FAN said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, Israel's bullshit machine is running on overtime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read your last several posts. thats all the Israel worshippers CAN post is bullshit and lies when they are backed up against the wall with nowhere to run on their corruption.
Click to expand...


If Your only reserve is the number of smiley's You incorporate to make Your impotent point....

Then I know Israelis have the facts.


----------



## rylah

Supreme sharia judge in the Palestinian Authority and PA  President Mahmoud Abbas’s adviser on religious and Islamic affairs Mahmoud al-Habash lashed out at Hamas during Friday's sermon. 

"The Marches of Return gamble with the lives of children and women, which does not serve Palestine," he said. 

Abbas advisor: Return Marches gamble with the lives of women and children


----------



## Sixties Fan

“This is yet another terrorist action,” the IDF said, explaining that “Hamas is taking [such actions] in an attempt to infiltrate into Israeli territory and hurt Israel’s citizens. This is part of a broader effort by Hamas to give its terror efforts a civilian cover and turn the border fence area into a battle zone.”

(full article and video online)

Hamas saboteur arrested while vandalizing Gaza fence


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Will the International Criminal Court Prosecute Israel for War Crimes?*

**


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> *Will the International Criminal Court Prosecute Israel for War Crimes?*
> 
> **


Not, if this "Press" individual was a member of the Hamas organization, just as the first one was, and was working at the time to harm the fence.

They were ALL warned not to come near the fence, or attempt to do anything which would harm or destroy it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Will the International Criminal Court Prosecute Israel for War Crimes?*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> Not, if this "Press" individual was a member of the Hamas organization, just as the first one was, and was working at the time to harm the fence.
> 
> They were ALL warned not to come near the fence, or attempt to do anything which would harm or destroy it.
Click to expand...

They were warned to stay off their own land?

That's nice.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Will the International Criminal Court Prosecute Israel for War Crimes?*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> Not, if this "Press" individual was a member of the Hamas organization, just as the first one was, and was working at the time to harm the fence.
> 
> They were ALL warned not to come near the fence, or attempt to do anything which would harm or destroy it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were warned to stay off their own land?
> 
> That's nice.
Click to expand...

They were warned to have a peaceful protest and not reach the fence and attempt to destroy it or attempt to break into a sovereign country, aka, Israel.

Israel is not their own land.  Never was.
They got what they got, but the Hamas charter insists in wanting to destroy Israel to take the land back to Muslims, any Muslims.

Time for Gaza to become an Independent Arab Muslim State.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Images on a leaflet dropped by Israeli military aircraft near the Gaza border ahead of Friday demonstrations, April 20, 2018 (IDF)

Israel drops leaflets warning Gaza protesters to keep away from fence


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Will the International Criminal Court Prosecute Israel for War Crimes?*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> Not, if this "Press" individual was a member of the Hamas organization, just as the first one was, and was working at the time to harm the fence.
> 
> They were ALL warned not to come near the fence, or attempt to do anything which would harm or destroy it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were warned to stay off their own land?
> 
> That's nice.
Click to expand...



They were warned not to take any actions that are harmful to Israel. They were warned to be peaceful. They couldn't manage it.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

Oh come on now.  Don't pretend you have never heard of them.



P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Will the International Criminal Court Prosecute Israel for War Crimes?*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> Not, if this "Press" individual was a member of the Hamas organization, just as the first one was, and was working at the time to harm the fence.
> 
> They were ALL warned not to come near the fence, or attempt to do anything which would harm or destroy it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were warned to stay off their own land?
> 
> That's nice.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Propably the  two most famous are:

The 38th Parallel DMZ separating North Korea from South Korea, maintained by the United Nations Command in Seoul Korea (since 1953).  The DMZ is 250 km long and 4 km wide _(2 km on each side)_.  You may not enter the 2 km buffer zone and you may not just walk up to the fense.  The Joint Security Area is in Panmunjom and is considered  the most sensitive area of Korea's demilitarised zone.

The Iron Curtain separated the Western Powers from the WARSAW Pact Countries in Eastern Europe.  It also had a 1 km buffer zone on each side of the demarcation line. 

Similarly, the 17th Parallel _(The partition of __French Indochina)_ that separated North and South Korea (1954 Geneva Accords), in its time, was quite well known.  If memory serves me, it was 5 km wide.​
The whine that they "were warned to stay off their own land" is simply uncalled for.  It is customary law recognized by all the major powers as to how things are done.  It is provided for in the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> Images on a leaflet dropped by Israeli military aircraft near the Gaza border ahead of Friday demonstrations, April 20, 2018 (IDF)
> 
> Israel drops leaflets warning Gaza protesters to keep away from fence



There’s a certain element of “this is pitiful” in appealing to the lowest common (islamic) denominator. Having to address these simpleton folks with pictographs denoting that assaulting a defended border with bombs, explosives and firearms is, you know, a bad idea.


----------



## fanger

Just back from Gaza, pictures to follow


----------



## Kondor3

fanger said:


> Just back from Gaza, pictures to follow


*Go get 'em, Achmed...*


----------



## Sixties Fan

Screenshot in case video removed
Except this is not video of 15-year-old Azzam Aweida being shot at all. It is video of 19-year-old Abdel Fattah Abdel Nabi supposedly being shot, video that was released almost a month ago (and which has many hallmarks of being a Pallywood production).

Compare the videos in the post with that from the Daily Mail. They are clearly showing the same incident, even though taken from different angles.

(full article online)

Daily Mail Tries to Pass Off Old Video as Footage of Latest Gaza Death


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Peaceful.......very peaceful......Islamic style ]

The IDF stated that two attempts were made to infiltrate Israel from Gaza Sunday evening.

In the first incident, two terrorists were identified attempting to breach the fence in the southern Gaza Strip. IDF forces opened fire on the suspects, killing one of them. The other suspect was apprehended and taken for questioning by security forces.

In the second incident, two more terrorists breached the fence. The terrorists threw explosive devices at IDF forces stationed on the Israeli side of the fence. The IDF soldiers responded by opening fire, killing the two terrorists.

(full article online)

Multiple attempted infiltrations from Gaza: 3 terrorists killed


----------



## Sixties Fan

But neither of these understandings could budge her from the opinion that Israel’s use of live fire to protect its border with Gaza was appropriate or legitimate. “You don’t shoot people,” she kept coming back to. In other words, she believes that the IDF has the right and responsibility to arrest, detain and do whatever other non-lethal things it could to protect the people it defends from harm, but that shooting should be a last resort to be applied only when actual lives are in danger.

Now keep in mind that my interlocutor is a decent and moral person, as well as being highly intelligent. But as we went through a series of logic-based arguments regarding the difference between war and crime fighting, the fact that a majority of those killed were jihadi fighters, or nature of the Hamas regime and its primary role in creating Gaza’s misery, I was clearly unable to shake her of the belief that undergirded her primary response to current events: that you shouldn’t shoot people if you don’t have to.

And you know what? She’s right! In the ordinary course of life, and even in policing and warfare, you shouldn’t shoot people if other effective choices are available. But given that non-shooting options, like the construction of a separation barrier in the West Bank (which all but eliminated casualties from both terror and the fight against it) has become Exhibit A for the Israel = Apartheid propaganda slur, it’s not at all clear that promises to judge Israel less harshly if it does something to defend itself other than what it’s doing right now will ever be kept.

Getting back to Gaza, it continues to surprise me just how many false things one must believe to accept the anti-Israel narrative. For instance, images and video that incontestably show the violent nature of the Hamas-inspired marches is on display for all to see. But this must be put aside in order to declare the marches and the marchers “peaceful,” or non-violence must be redefined to make room for Molotov cocktails, incendiaries, swastikas, and the occasional live ammunition. 

One must also believe that even if rocket fire and the digging of infiltration tunnels – the primary activity of those who govern Gaza – might be warlike, this new tactic (charging the border week after week) is peaceful.

(full article online)

The Price that Israel Critics Pay (Divest This!) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The New York Times gave space to Fadi Abu Shammalah. He wrote an opinion piece called, Why I March in Gaza. First of all, let us look at who Abu Shammalah is: executive director of the General Union of Cultural Centers in Gaza. I find it interesting that there is a General Union of Cultural Centers (GUUC) in Gaza. After all, Gaza is often called an open-air prison, and it is compared with Warsaw Ghetto. I doubt there were cultural centers in the Ghetto; you know, places where kids learn to dance and do art, for example. But in 1997, well before the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, the GUUC was established, apparently with 52 cultural centers currently in Gaza and Judea & Samaria. Funny how the Gazans try to have it both ways – to claim they are under horrific Israeli occupation and blockade while at the same time showcasing cultural centers, five-star hotels and more.

---------------
Let us parse this one, ok?


unarmed, direct, civilian-led mass action: burning tires, throwing Molotov cocktails and rocks, trying to take down the border-fence, and more are not activities generally characterizing unarmed demonstrations. Furthermore, Yediot Aharonot military correspondent, Alex Fishman, writes that when the demonstrations began, the Gazans were 700 meters from the fence and now they are a mere 100 meters away from it. Their goal is to knock the fence down and send a stream of Gazans into Israel to run amok. It all sounds rather not-civilian to me.
the march has unified the Palestinian people: this remains to be seen. According to PhD candidate Moran Stern, this is not at all true. He writes that the story of the Friday protests is more a story of the millions of Gazans who stayed at home rather than the small minority who came out.
the march is an effective way to highlight unbearable living conditions in Gaza: for the fact they have only four hours of electricity a day, they need to blame the PA that does not pay Israel for the electricity she provides.
the economy and borders under siege: Israel allowing the transport into Gaza of hundreds of tons daily of food, medicines and other products is not a siege. A siege is what happened to the Jews at Masada; it is what happened numerous times to the Jews in Jerusalem. Furthermore, immediately after the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, before Hamas started terrorizing Israelis living in the nearby communities, borders were open and people and goods moved freely in both directions. But hey! It is safer to blame Israel than Hamas, right?
fear of having one’s home bombed: if Hamas would not fire missiles at Israel from civilian homes, there would be no bombing of their homes.

(full article online)

Fadi is Marching in Gaza for His Kids - Israel Diaries


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Cutting the fence which protects a sovereign country is.......peaceful protest ....islamic style  ]

In broadcast on Hamas's Al-Aqsa TV, masked man pledges: 'What was taken by force will be regained by force alone'; IDF says it thwarted mass bid to breach border on Friday

(full article online)

Gaza ‘fence cutter unit’ vows to breach border, retake ‘occupied lands’


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Any questions as to what the "March of Return" is all about ? ]





When they say that there is "no alternative to return" they know, and their people know, exactly what that means.

Yasir Arafat said this about "return" in 1980: "Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for an all-out war, a war which will last for generations… We shall not rest until the day when we return to our home, and until we destroy Israel."

(full article online)

PLO tells their people to keep resisting until Israel is destroyed via "return" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The editorial opens:

First, the lethal narrative that Israel intentionally murders children is an ugly smear, one used by Palestinian propagandists and other who seek to demonise Israel, one which obfuscates Hamas’s cynical and illegal use of children as combatants.  Further, the Guardian’s characterisation of the protest in question as “peaceful” is a flat-out lie. Whilst the circumstances of the Palestinian teen’s death are not yet clear, there’s no doubt that the 10,000 strong Palestinian protest that he participated in included the use of Molotov cocktails and other forms of violence – as well as attempts to damage the fence which protects southern Israeli communities from Hamas terrorists. 

The editorial continues:

The first sentence is a non-sequitur.  Whether or not the protesters were “armed” (as in, with firearms) is not the point. The question is whether other democracies faced with a similar threat on their border by a proscribed terrorist group would act differently.  Would the US Border Control, for instance, not use lethal force if thousands of Mexicans aligned with a violent terror group attempted to cross the border into US territory?  Would the US government ever even consider leaving US border cities vulnerable to an attack?  For some perspective that the media has failed to provide, the last Gaza protest was less than one kilometer away from an Israeli kibbutz.

(full article online)

‘The Guardian View’ on the Gaza protests: one of their worst editorials on Israel ever


----------



## Mindful

The


----------



## Sixties Fan

To make sure everyone understood that the world’s only Jewish state behaved in ways that Jew-haters have always seen as characteristically evil, Amnesty posted another tweet echoing the medieval blood libel:

“Malicious tactics are being employed by the Israeli military who are deliberately using weapons of war to cause life-changing injuries to Palestinian protesters. Why are weapons still being sold to #Israel?”

On Facebook, where Amnesty has about two million followers, the organization shared the same posts.




And needless to say, there were not just social media posts, but also a lengthy statement under the title: “Israel: Arms embargo needed as military unlawfully kills and maims Gaza protesters.”
Just in case you were wondering: no, Amnesty doesn’t mention that Gaza’s Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar told a crowd of protesters near the border with Israel: “We will uproot the borders, we will pluck out their hearts, and we will pray in Jerusalem.” No word either about the fact that many of those killed were members of terror organizations; no word about the displays of swastikas (on Hitler’s birthday) or about the successful attempts to start fires across the border in Israel by releasing kites carrying burning rags or fire bombs.

(full article online)

Amnesty misses the good old times when Jews were defenseless (Petra Marquardt-Bigman) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

In Gaza, Hamas terrorists prepare firebomb kite for flight to Israel at the border.

Israeli farmers who are fighting against explosive kite terrorism in the Gaza Belt region will be recognized as “victims of hostile acts,” making them entitled to compensation under the property tax law.

Another “kite terror” attack was carried out on Monday by Gaza terrorists who sent kites with flaming firebombs (Molotov cocktails) flying over the security fence along the eastern section of the Gaza border into an Israeli agricultural field.

(full article online)

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/eye...-kites-as-victims-of-hostile-acts/2018/05/01/


----------



## Sixties Fan

*The Real Motivation to Attack Israel*

To claim, as he does, that Israel is “denying Gaza’s people the water, electricity, education, and food they need to live decent lives,” is grossly inaccurate to the point of being a vicious lie.

Israel provides water and electricity to Gaza despite the objections of Mahmoud Abbas, the leader of the Palestinian Authority.  Abbas has adopted a concerted policy of attempting to starve the residents of Gaza who, through their governing body, the Hamas terror organization, refuse to acknowledge the leadership of Abbas and his corrupt Palestinian Authority.

As for education – the responsibility for education passed to the Palestinian Authority when the PLO entered into the Oslo Accords with Israel, and the sphere of education was transferred, lock, stock, and barrel, to the Palestinian administration governing Gaza, including the freedom to incite and to sow hatred and anti-Semitism against Israel and the Jews. Moreover, hundreds of millions of dollars are collected by the United Nations Relief and Welfare Agency (UNRWA) to teach, feed, and tend to Palestinian needs. All too often, UNRWA’s services are hijacked by Hamas.

As for food, Israel does not restrict the transfer of food into Gaza. In this context, Israel strictly abides by basic humanitarian norms preventing any action aimed at causing starvation. However, despite the over 500 trucks that enter Gaza every day from Israel with flour, rice, other foodstuffs, and even cement, Israel limits only those products that could be used for the construction of offensive tunnels or the production of rockets and other weapons. This is Israel’s legal prerogative that has even been recognized by the United Nations.





Tweet published on April 23 by COGAT, the Israeli body responsible for the Coordination of Government Activities in the Territories


(full article online)

Manipulating the Truth about Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> *The Real Motivation to Attack Israel*
> 
> To claim, as he does, that Israel is “denying Gaza’s people the water, electricity, education, and food they need to live decent lives,” is grossly inaccurate to the point of being a vicious lie.
> 
> Israel provides water and electricity to Gaza despite the objections of Mahmoud Abbas, the leader of the Palestinian Authority.  Abbas has adopted a concerted policy of attempting to starve the residents of Gaza who, through their governing body, the Hamas terror organization, refuse to acknowledge the leadership of Abbas and his corrupt Palestinian Authority.
> 
> As for education – the responsibility for education passed to the Palestinian Authority when the PLO entered into the Oslo Accords with Israel, and the sphere of education was transferred, lock, stock, and barrel, to the Palestinian administration governing Gaza, including the freedom to incite and to sow hatred and anti-Semitism against Israel and the Jews. Moreover, hundreds of millions of dollars are collected by the United Nations Relief and Welfare Agency (UNRWA) to teach, feed, and tend to Palestinian needs. All too often, UNRWA’s services are hijacked by Hamas.
> 
> As for food, Israel does not restrict the transfer of food into Gaza. In this context, Israel strictly abides by basic humanitarian norms preventing any action aimed at causing starvation. However, despite the over 500 trucks that enter Gaza every day from Israel with flour, rice, other foodstuffs, and even cement, Israel limits only those products that could be used for the construction of offensive tunnels or the production of rockets and other weapons. This is Israel’s legal prerogative that has even been recognized by the United Nations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tweet published on April 23 by COGAT, the Israeli body responsible for the Coordination of Government Activities in the Territories
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Manipulating the Truth about Gaza


What were the exports?


----------



## Billo_Really

If Israel is so humane, why won't they allow independent human rights activists in to the country to see for themselves the treatment of the Palestinians?

*Most Unwelcome: Prominent US Human Rights Campaigners Denied Entry to Israel*​
_Israel’s denial of entry to foreign citizens must be seen in the context of its ongoing efforts to repress human rights activism within Israel and Palestine, and its regular denial of entry to Palestinians, including U.S. citizens of Palestinian origin. It has been 70 years since the mass killing and eviction of Palestinians by the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948, 50 years of Israel’s occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, and 11 years of its punitive closure of Gaza, whose residents have been shot and killed in nonviolent protests in recent weeks. Meanwhile, Israel continues to expand its West Bank settlements, annex East Jerusalem, and increase attacks on human rights defenders and incarceration of political prisoners.

_​


----------



## Billo_Really

P F Tinmore said:


> What were the exports?


Israel doesn't allow shit into Gaza!

_"...the *present situation* is dire as massive infrastructural failures cause daily hardship for the population, who are also at risk of epidemics. At the time of writing, with insufficient quantities of fuel reaching Gaza, electricity is available for only short periods, making it impossible for hospitals to provide proper treatment for seriously ill patients suffering from cancer and kidney ailments."_​


----------



## Billo_Really

Claims that Israel allows humanitarian aid into Gaza is total *horseshit*!

_The most egregious violations of human rights committed by Israel have been in its enforcement using excessive force, of arbitrary access to restricted areas at sea and on land, profoundly affecting the lives of Palestinian fishermen and agricultural farmers and   households dependent upon them. 

The more pervasive forms of human rights violations also linked to the blockade have been well documented by the Secretary-General (A/68/502), and include inter alia, severe movement restrictions into and out of Gaza from Israel and adverse impacts on the rights of Palestinians in Gaza to education, health and work. 

...severe export restrictions (and limitations on imports) undermine the potential of the Gaza economy, and accentuate the impoverished conditions that prevail in Gaza. 

The recent refusal of Israel to allow exports from Gaza to the West Bank, despite a Dutch donation of a container security scanner, is emblematic of the denial of the right to development in Gaza, and undercuts Israel’s claims that its actions are taken to serve genuine security concerns._​


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

But the biggest deception of all behind the so-called “Great Return March” is deceiving the Palestinians themselves into thinking that they have any hope of “returning” to any homes or territory in present-day Israel that their ancestors might have occupied before 1948. Have Israeli Jews ever demanded a “return” to the millions of homes their ancestors lost in Europe, during the Holocaust, or in the Arab and Muslim world, from which roughly a million persecuted Jews were displaced between the 1940s and the 1970s? Instead, the Jews accepted the cruelty of history and focused their energies on building a vibrant state in the tiny sliver of land they were given the chance to develop in 1948.

By contrast, when Gazans received a historic opportunity, after Israel’s 2005 unilateral withdrawal from Gaza, to prove that they can engage in responsible and peaceful state-building, they opted to turn Gaza into a Somalia rather than a Singapore. Instead of choosing coexistence and cooperation, Hamas has promoted a culture of anti-Israel hatred, while diverting Gaza’s resources to terrorist rockets and attack tunnels, even after launching and losing three wars against Israel in the span of seven years (2008, 2012, and 2014).

(full article online)

The Great Deception March on Gaza’s Border


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian charged with asking IDF to shoot him to get Hamas stipend


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Have Israeli Jews ever demanded a “return” to the millions of homes their ancestors lost in Europe, during the Holocaust, or in the Arab and Muslim world, from which roughly a million persecuted Jews were displaced between the 1940s and the 1970s?


Do they have a BDS? I'll join.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have Israeli Jews ever demanded a “return” to the millions of homes their ancestors lost in Europe, during the Holocaust, or in the Arab and Muslim world, from which roughly a million persecuted Jews were displaced between the 1940s and the 1970s?
> 
> 
> 
> Do they have a BDS? I'll join.
Click to expand...

You have given this poor answer before.  You know darn well that you would never help any Jew, anywhere in the world, for any reason.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> By contrast, when Gazans received a historic opportunity, after Israel’s 2005 unilateral withdrawal from Gaza, to prove that they can engage in responsible and peaceful state-building,


You keep missing the fact that part of the so called disengagement was initiating a system of closure. This restricted exports that were a critical part of Gaza's economy. Gaza's economy has spiraled down since then because they are not allowed to earn foreign capital or engage in international trade.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have Israeli Jews ever demanded a “return” to the millions of homes their ancestors lost in Europe, during the Holocaust, or in the Arab and Muslim world, from which roughly a million persecuted Jews were displaced between the 1940s and the 1970s?
> 
> 
> 
> Do they have a BDS? I'll join.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have given this poor answer before.  You know darn well that you would never help any Jew, anywhere in the world, for any reason.
Click to expand...

Where did you get that idea?

Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> By contrast, when Gazans received a historic opportunity, after Israel’s 2005 unilateral withdrawal from Gaza, to prove that they can engage in responsible and peaceful state-building,
> 
> 
> 
> You keep missing the fact that part of the so called disengagement was initiating a system of closure. This restricted exports that were a critical part of Gaza's economy. Gaza's economy has spiraled down since then because they are not allowed to earn foreign capital or engage in international trade.
Click to expand...


When have Islamo-tunnels used for weapons smuggling become a part of islamic terrorist international trade?

Links?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## toomuchtime_

Hollie said:


>


lol  Right on target, but the Palestinian medics will probably have to shoot him in the head in order to blame his wounds on Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> By contrast, when Gazans received a historic opportunity, after Israel’s 2005 unilateral withdrawal from Gaza, to prove that they can engage in responsible and peaceful state-building,
> 
> 
> 
> You keep missing the fact that part of the so called disengagement was initiating a system of closure. This restricted exports that were a critical part of Gaza's economy. Gaza's economy has spiraled down since then because they are not allowed to earn foreign capital or engage in international trade.
Click to expand...


What you fail to understand is that Arabs-Moslems have no incentive to be productive or to build a functioning society / economy. Yours are a the typical excuses for Arab-Moslem incompetence. With a dedicated, UN sponsored welfare fraud system, Arabs-Moslems have no real interest in advancing their status. 

One only needs to pay attention to the energies expelled by the various islamic terrorist franchises to see that the consuming goal of so-called Pal'istanians is Jew hatred. Nothing else matters to them.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Bullshit.  


P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> By contrast, when Gazans received a historic opportunity, after Israel’s 2005 unilateral withdrawal from Gaza, to prove that they can engage in responsible and peaceful state-building,
> 
> 
> 
> You keep missing the fact that part of the so called disengagement was initiating a system of closure. This restricted exports that were a critical part of Gaza's economy. Gaza's economy has spiraled down since then because they are not allowed to earn foreign capital or engage in international trade.
Click to expand...

Bullshit.  Exports and imports must be inspected by Israel because Hamas would use them to import weapons.  The problem is the Gazans would rather be at war with Israel than have a prosperous economy.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> By contrast, when Gazans received a historic opportunity, after Israel’s 2005 unilateral withdrawal from Gaza, to prove that they can engage in responsible and peaceful state-building,
> 
> 
> 
> You keep missing the fact that part of the so called disengagement was initiating a system of closure. This restricted exports that were a critical part of Gaza's economy. Gaza's economy has spiraled down since then because they are not allowed to earn foreign capital or engage in international trade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit.  Exports and imports must be inspected by Israel because Hamas would use them to import weapons.  The problem is the Gazans would rather be at war with Israel than have a prosperous economy.
Click to expand...

Exports must be inspected to stop the import of weapons?

*Stupid post of the day!*


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> By contrast, when Gazans received a historic opportunity, after Israel’s 2005 unilateral withdrawal from Gaza, to prove that they can engage in responsible and peaceful state-building,
> 
> 
> 
> You keep missing the fact that part of the so called disengagement was initiating a system of closure. This restricted exports that were a critical part of Gaza's economy. Gaza's economy has spiraled down since then because they are not allowed to earn foreign capital or engage in international trade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit.  Exports and imports must be inspected by Israel because Hamas would use them to import weapons.  The problem is the Gazans would rather be at war with Israel than have a prosperous economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exports must be inspected to stop the import of weapons?
> 
> *Stupid post of the day!*
Click to expand...

No, that would be your post.  For goods to be exported without Israeli inspections, Gaze would have to have a port that was not subject to Israeli control and that would allow them to try to import weapons.  There is no way to get around the fact that all of the economic problems the Gazans have comes fron the fact they would rather be at war with Israel than be prosperous.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> By contrast, when Gazans received a historic opportunity, after Israel’s 2005 unilateral withdrawal from Gaza, to prove that they can engage in responsible and peaceful state-building,
> 
> 
> 
> You keep missing the fact that part of the so called disengagement was initiating a system of closure. This restricted exports that were a critical part of Gaza's economy. Gaza's economy has spiraled down since then because they are not allowed to earn foreign capital or engage in international trade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit.  Exports and imports must be inspected by Israel because Hamas would use them to import weapons.  The problem is the Gazans would rather be at war with Israel than have a prosperous economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exports must be inspected to stop the import of weapons?
> 
> *Stupid post of the day!*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, that would be your post.  For goods to be exported without Israeli inspections, Gaze would have to have a port that was not subject to Israeli control and that would allow them to try to import weapons.  There is no way to get around the fact that all of the economic problems the Gazans have comes fron the fact they would rather be at war with Israel than be prosperous.
Click to expand...

Are you trying for second place?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ What would have any other country done to the people who are intent on destroying property in that country? ]


*Firefighters on Gaza border work to control blaze from flaring kite*

Seven firefighter teams are working to take control of a massive blaze that has broke out in the Be’eri Forest near the Gaza border, from what is believed to have been a kite affixed with flaming materials flown from the Palestinian coastal enclave.

Three hours since the fire was said to have started, emergency crews have yet to take control of the blaze, Hebrew media sites report.

The burning kites are part of a new tactic utilized by Gaza protesters against Israel, and are connected to the ongoing weekly “March of Return” demonstrations on the border encouraged by the Gaza strip’s rulers, Hamas.

Firefighters on Gaza border work to control blaze from flaring kite


----------



## Sixties Fan

CAMERA Snapshots: Revealed: Palestinian ‘Journalist’ Killed at Gaza Border was a Terrorist


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Idea -  For every Dunam of land burnt....Israel should find something to make Hamas pay for it, so that the Israeli farmers can be repaid for the terrorist attack -  Any ideas as to what? Would attacking Hamas points be enough? 
A metric dönüm is equal to:[_citation needed_]


1,000 square metres (exactly)
10 ares (exactly)
1 decare (exactly)
0.1 hectares (exactly)
0.001 square kilometres (exactly)
0.247105381 acres (approx)
1,195.99005 square yards (approx)
10,763.9104 square feet (approx)              ]

Crops were burned and some 800 dunam of farmland destroyed on Wednesday in another eco-terror attack by operatives flying firebomb kites over the security fence on the border from Gaza.

(full article online)

200 Acres of Israeli Farmland Burnt in Gaza’s Eco-Terror Kite Attack (video)


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> By contrast, when Gazans received a historic opportunity, after Israel’s 2005 unilateral withdrawal from Gaza, to prove that they can engage in responsible and peaceful state-building,
> 
> 
> 
> You keep missing the fact that part of the so called disengagement was initiating a system of closure. This restricted exports that were a critical part of Gaza's economy. Gaza's economy has spiraled down since then because they are not allowed to earn foreign capital or engage in international trade.
Click to expand...


Sure. We'll go with that. The solution to the problem is Gaza's investment in peace and nation building. 

Yes?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Idea -  For every Dunam of land burnt....Israel should find something to make Hamas pay for it, so that the Israeli farmers can be repaid for the terrorist attack -  Any ideas as to what? Would attacking Hamas points be enough?
> A metric dönüm is equal to:[_citation needed_]
> 
> 
> 1,000 square metres (exactly)
> 10 ares (exactly)
> 1 decare (exactly)
> 0.1 hectares (exactly)
> 0.001 square kilometres (exactly)
> 0.247105381 acres (approx)
> 1,195.99005 square yards (approx)
> 10,763.9104 square feet (approx)              ]
> 
> Crops were burned and some 800 dunam of farmland destroyed on Wednesday in another eco-terror attack by operatives flying firebomb kites over the security fence on the border from Gaza.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 200 Acres of Israeli Farmland Burnt in Gaza’s Eco-Terror Kite Attack (video)


Israel has already destroyed much more than that in Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> By contrast, when Gazans received a historic opportunity, after Israel’s 2005 unilateral withdrawal from Gaza, to prove that they can engage in responsible and peaceful state-building,
> 
> 
> 
> You keep missing the fact that part of the so called disengagement was initiating a system of closure. This restricted exports that were a critical part of Gaza's economy. Gaza's economy has spiraled down since then because they are not allowed to earn foreign capital or engage in international trade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure. We'll go with that. The solution to the problem is Gaza's investment in peace and nation building.
> 
> Yes?
Click to expand...

That can't happen until the siege is lifted.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> By contrast, when Gazans received a historic opportunity, after Israel’s 2005 unilateral withdrawal from Gaza, to prove that they can engage in responsible and peaceful state-building,
> 
> 
> 
> You keep missing the fact that part of the so called disengagement was initiating a system of closure. This restricted exports that were a critical part of Gaza's economy. Gaza's economy has spiraled down since then because they are not allowed to earn foreign capital or engage in international trade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure. We'll go with that. The solution to the problem is Gaza's investment in peace and nation building.
> 
> Yes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That can't happen until the siege is lifted.
Click to expand...


You are wrong. All the elements of peace and nation building can and should occur first.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> By contrast, when Gazans received a historic opportunity, after Israel’s 2005 unilateral withdrawal from Gaza, to prove that they can engage in responsible and peaceful state-building,
> 
> 
> 
> You keep missing the fact that part of the so called disengagement was initiating a system of closure. This restricted exports that were a critical part of Gaza's economy. Gaza's economy has spiraled down since then because they are not allowed to earn foreign capital or engage in international trade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure. We'll go with that. The solution to the problem is Gaza's investment in peace and nation building.
> 
> Yes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That can't happen until the siege is lifted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are wrong. All the elements of peace and nation building can and should occur first.
Click to expand...

Really? Everything they need Israel won't let them have.


----------



## jillian

TheOldSchool said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'
> 
> 
> 
> How exciting
Click to expand...


my money's on the Israelis. not the terrorists who use women and children as human shields.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Idea -  For every Dunam of land burnt....Israel should find something to make Hamas pay for it, so that the Israeli farmers can be repaid for the terrorist attack -  Any ideas as to what? Would attacking Hamas points be enough?
> A metric dönüm is equal to:[_citation needed_]
> 
> 
> 1,000 square metres (exactly)
> 10 ares (exactly)
> 1 decare (exactly)
> 0.1 hectares (exactly)
> 0.001 square kilometres (exactly)
> 0.247105381 acres (approx)
> 1,195.99005 square yards (approx)
> 10,763.9104 square feet (approx)              ]
> 
> Crops were burned and some 800 dunam of farmland destroyed on Wednesday in another eco-terror attack by operatives flying firebomb kites over the security fence on the border from Gaza.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 200 Acres of Israeli Farmland Burnt in Gaza’s Eco-Terror Kite Attack (video)
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has already destroyed much more than that in Gaza.
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> By contrast, when Gazans received a historic opportunity, after Israel’s 2005 unilateral withdrawal from Gaza, to prove that they can engage in responsible and peaceful state-building,
> 
> 
> 
> You keep missing the fact that part of the so called disengagement was initiating a system of closure. This restricted exports that were a critical part of Gaza's economy. Gaza's economy has spiraled down since then because they are not allowed to earn foreign capital or engage in international trade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure. We'll go with that. The solution to the problem is Gaza's investment in peace and nation building.
> 
> Yes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That can't happen until the siege is lifted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are wrong. All the elements of peace and nation building can and should occur first.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Everything they need Israel won't let them have.
Click to expand...


You people are the epitome of emotionally and intellectually stunted juveniles who simply cannot cope in an environment that requires them to make decisions typically required of mature, responsible adults.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep missing the fact that part of the so called disengagement was initiating a system of closure. This restricted exports that were a critical part of Gaza's economy. Gaza's economy has spiraled down since then because they are not allowed to earn foreign capital or engage in international trade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure. We'll go with that. The solution to the problem is Gaza's investment in peace and nation building.
> 
> Yes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That can't happen until the siege is lifted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are wrong. All the elements of peace and nation building can and should occur first.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Everything they need Israel won't let them have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You people are the epitome of emotionally and intellectually stunted juveniles who simply cannot cope in an environment that requires them to make decisions typically required of mature, responsible adults.
Click to expand...

Stupid post.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure. We'll go with that. The solution to the problem is Gaza's investment in peace and nation building.
> 
> Yes?
> 
> 
> 
> That can't happen until the siege is lifted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are wrong. All the elements of peace and nation building can and should occur first.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Everything they need Israel won't let them have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You people are the epitome of emotionally and intellectually stunted juveniles who simply cannot cope in an environment that requires them to make decisions typically required of mature, responsible adults.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid post.
Click to expand...


Absent a YouTube video to cut and paste, this again is a tactic you employ ;(your silly one-liners), as you’re left with really no ability to form a coherent thought.


----------



## Hollie

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That can't happen until the siege is lifted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are wrong. All the elements of peace and nation building can and should occur first.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Everything they need Israel won't let them have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You people are the epitome of emotionally and intellectually stunted juveniles who simply cannot cope in an environment that requires them to make decisions typically required of mature, responsible adults.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absent a YouTube video to cut and paste, this again is a tactic you employ ;(your silly one-liners), as you’re left with really no ability to form a coherent thought.
Click to expand...


Embrace your _Pal’Istanian Mentality_™️ and embrace the fact that I won’t let you have an opinion. You’re an eternal victim.

You understand the term _submission_, right?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Idea -  For every Dunam of land burnt....Israel should find something to make Hamas pay for it, so that the Israeli farmers can be repaid for the terrorist attack -  Any ideas as to what? Would attacking Hamas points be enough?
> A metric dönüm is equal to:[_citation needed_]
> 
> 
> 1,000 square metres (exactly)
> 10 ares (exactly)
> 1 decare (exactly)
> 0.1 hectares (exactly)
> 0.001 square kilometres (exactly)
> 0.247105381 acres (approx)
> 1,195.99005 square yards (approx)
> 10,763.9104 square feet (approx)              ]
> 
> Crops were burned and some 800 dunam of farmland destroyed on Wednesday in another eco-terror attack by operatives flying firebomb kites over the security fence on the border from Gaza.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 200 Acres of Israeli Farmland Burnt in Gaza’s Eco-Terror Kite Attack (video)
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has already destroyed much more than that in Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Gaza's economy will take years to recover from the devastating impact of the war, in which more than 360 factories have been destroyed or badly damaged and thousands of acres of farmland ruined by tanks, shelling and air strikes, according to analysts.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/22/gaza-economic-cost-war-factories-destroyed​
And this was only the last attack on Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Idea -  For every Dunam of land burnt....Israel should find something to make Hamas pay for it, so that the Israeli farmers can be repaid for the terrorist attack -  Any ideas as to what? Would attacking Hamas points be enough?
> A metric dönüm is equal to:[_citation needed_]
> 
> 
> 1,000 square metres (exactly)
> 10 ares (exactly)
> 1 decare (exactly)
> 0.1 hectares (exactly)
> 0.001 square kilometres (exactly)
> 0.247105381 acres (approx)
> 1,195.99005 square yards (approx)
> 10,763.9104 square feet (approx)              ]
> 
> Crops were burned and some 800 dunam of farmland destroyed on Wednesday in another eco-terror attack by operatives flying firebomb kites over the security fence on the border from Gaza.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 200 Acres of Israeli Farmland Burnt in Gaza’s Eco-Terror Kite Attack (video)
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has already destroyed much more than that in Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Gaza's economy will take years to recover from the devastating impact of the war, in which more than 360 factories have been destroyed or badly damaged and thousands of acres of farmland ruined by tanks, shelling and air strikes, according to analysts.
> 
> Gaza counts cost of war as more than 360 factories destroyed or damaged​
> And this was only the last attack on Gaza.
Click to expand...


You will have run for the safety of the dedicated Islamic terrorist endowment fund otherwise known as UNRWA. 

I suppose you will have to find a way to resolve acts of war perpetrated by Islamics as provoking a response from Israel. 

You began a war you were ill-prepared to fight. Islamics have a history of that behavior.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Some frank and direct observations on the Tire Riots being waged by Arabs-Moslems is refreshing. 

*Palestinians: The Real Gaza Blockade*

Palestinians: The Real Gaza Blockade


The Rafah border crossing is the Gaza Strip's single opening to Egypt and the rest of the Arab world. That border crossing is where the real suffering of the Palestinians has been taking place.


The Gaza Strip could be a livable environment if the Egyptians opened the Rafah terminal to allow the world to come and help the Palestinians living there.


As Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh and other organizers of the campaign have clearly stated in recent weeks, the Palestinian protests are aimed at thwarting US President Donald Trump's yet-to-be-announced plan for peace in the Middle East.



I think the first and last bullet points, while accurate, don’t drill down on the difficult position the Egyptian government faces. They know from experience that their border and territory is threatened by Pal’istanian terrorists. The Egyptians, like Israel, are faced with an elaborate network of tunnels that obviously brings risks to their borders and beyond. 

But, as the article later describes, the Pal’Istanians and their supporters have an obvious agenda to promote and that doesn’t (yet) require attacking the Egyptian border. I suspect if that attack happens, we’re going to see none of the restraint that the IDF has shown. That scenario could leave Pal’Istanian bodies several deep if the Peaceful Inner Struggle moves to the Rafah crossing area.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



You waged war, you got war, sweetie. 

What purpose is served by these silly YouTube infomercials for Islamist whiners?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>




Check out this one.



Just think, all that welfare money spent by Islamic terrorists on war equipment and it was gone in a split second.

Allah has again played a cruel joke on you.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You waged war, you got war, sweetie.
> 
> What purpose is served by these silly YouTube infomercials for Islamist whiners?
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You waged war, you got war, sweetie.
> 
> What purpose is served by these silly YouTube infomercials for Islamist whiners?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

You are on the wrong thread, discussing the wrong topic.
So long. Time for you to go.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You waged war, you got war, sweetie.
> 
> What purpose is served by these silly YouTube infomercials for Islamist whiners?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are on the wrong thread, discussing the wrong topic.
> So long. Time for you to go.
Click to expand...

Do you think Israel's war against the Palestinians is not the reason for the protests?


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You waged war, you got war, sweetie.
> 
> What purpose is served by these silly YouTube infomercials for Islamist whiners?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are on the wrong thread, discussing the wrong topic.
> So long. Time for you to go.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you think Israel's war against the Palestinians is not the reason for the protests?
Click to expand...

No, the cause is the Palestinian war against Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Some frank and direct observations on the Tire Riots being waged by Arabs-Moslems is refreshing.
> 
> *Palestinians: The Real Gaza Blockade*
> 
> Palestinians: The Real Gaza Blockade
> 
> 
> The Rafah border crossing is the Gaza Strip's single opening to Egypt and the rest of the Arab world. That border crossing is where the real suffering of the Palestinians has been taking place.
> 
> 
> The Gaza Strip could be a livable environment if the Egyptians opened the Rafah terminal to allow the world to come and help the Palestinians living there.
> 
> 
> As Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh and other organizers of the campaign have clearly stated in recent weeks, the Palestinian protests are aimed at thwarting US President Donald Trump's yet-to-be-announced plan for peace in the Middle East.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the first and last bullet points, while accurate, don’t drill down on the difficult position the Egyptian government faces. They know from experience that their border and territory is threatened by Pal’istanian terrorists. The Egyptians, like Israel, are faced with an elaborate network of tunnels that obviously brings risks to their borders and beyond.
> 
> But, as the article later describes, the Pal’Istanians and their supporters have an obvious agenda to promote and that doesn’t (yet) require attacking the Egyptian border. I suspect if that attack happens, we’re going to see none of the restraint that the IDF has shown. That scenario could leave Pal’Istanian bodies several deep if the Peaceful Inner Struggle moves to the Rafah crossing area.


Hamas never had any inclination of attacking Egypt.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You waged war, you got war, sweetie.
> 
> What purpose is served by these silly YouTube infomercials for Islamist whiners?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are on the wrong thread, discussing the wrong topic.
> So long. Time for you to go.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you think Israel's war against the Palestinians is not the reason for the protests?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, the cause is the Palestinian war against Israel.
Click to expand...

Is that when the Palestinians went to Europe and attacked the Zionists?


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some frank and direct observations on the Tire Riots being waged by Arabs-Moslems is refreshing.
> 
> *Palestinians: The Real Gaza Blockade*
> 
> Palestinians: The Real Gaza Blockade
> 
> 
> The Rafah border crossing is the Gaza Strip's single opening to Egypt and the rest of the Arab world. That border crossing is where the real suffering of the Palestinians has been taking place.
> 
> 
> The Gaza Strip could be a livable environment if the Egyptians opened the Rafah terminal to allow the world to come and help the Palestinians living there.
> 
> 
> As Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh and other organizers of the campaign have clearly stated in recent weeks, the Palestinian protests are aimed at thwarting US President Donald Trump's yet-to-be-announced plan for peace in the Middle East.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the first and last bullet points, while accurate, don’t drill down on the difficult position the Egyptian government faces. They know from experience that their border and territory is threatened by Pal’istanian terrorists. The Egyptians, like Israel, are faced with an elaborate network of tunnels that obviously brings risks to their borders and beyond.
> 
> But, as the article later describes, the Pal’Istanians and their supporters have an obvious agenda to promote and that doesn’t (yet) require attacking the Egyptian border. I suspect if that attack happens, we’re going to see none of the restraint that the IDF has shown. That scenario could leave Pal’Istanian bodies several deep if the Peaceful Inner Struggle moves to the Rafah crossing area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas never had any inclination of attacking Egypt.
Click to expand...

And yet Egyptian authorities claimed Hamas conspired with the Muslim Brotherhood to break Morsi out of prison and attack the Egyptian government during the riots.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You waged war, you got war, sweetie.
> 
> What purpose is served by these silly YouTube infomercials for Islamist whiners?
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are on the wrong thread, discussing the wrong topic.
> So long. Time for you to go.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you think Israel's war against the Palestinians is not the reason for the protests?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, the cause is the Palestinian war against Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that when the Palestinians went to Europe and attacked the Zionists?
Click to expand...

I see, you think Israel is located in Europe.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some frank and direct observations on the Tire Riots being waged by Arabs-Moslems is refreshing.
> 
> *Palestinians: The Real Gaza Blockade*
> 
> Palestinians: The Real Gaza Blockade
> 
> 
> The Rafah border crossing is the Gaza Strip's single opening to Egypt and the rest of the Arab world. That border crossing is where the real suffering of the Palestinians has been taking place.
> 
> 
> The Gaza Strip could be a livable environment if the Egyptians opened the Rafah terminal to allow the world to come and help the Palestinians living there.
> 
> 
> As Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh and other organizers of the campaign have clearly stated in recent weeks, the Palestinian protests are aimed at thwarting US President Donald Trump's yet-to-be-announced plan for peace in the Middle East.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the first and last bullet points, while accurate, don’t drill down on the difficult position the Egyptian government faces. They know from experience that their border and territory is threatened by Pal’istanian terrorists. The Egyptians, like Israel, are faced with an elaborate network of tunnels that obviously brings risks to their borders and beyond.
> 
> But, as the article later describes, the Pal’Istanians and their supporters have an obvious agenda to promote and that doesn’t (yet) require attacking the Egyptian border. I suspect if that attack happens, we’re going to see none of the restraint that the IDF has shown. That scenario could leave Pal’Istanian bodies several deep if the Peaceful Inner Struggle moves to the Rafah crossing area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas never had any inclination of attacking Egypt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet Egyptian authorities claimed Hamas conspired with the Muslim Brotherhood to break Morsi out of prison and attack the Egyptian government during the riots.
Click to expand...

Yeah, OK.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Both off topic?  There is a thread for that topic.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some frank and direct observations on the Tire Riots being waged by Arabs-Moslems is refreshing.
> 
> *Palestinians: The Real Gaza Blockade*
> 
> Palestinians: The Real Gaza Blockade
> 
> 
> The Rafah border crossing is the Gaza Strip's single opening to Egypt and the rest of the Arab world. That border crossing is where the real suffering of the Palestinians has been taking place.
> 
> 
> The Gaza Strip could be a livable environment if the Egyptians opened the Rafah terminal to allow the world to come and help the Palestinians living there.
> 
> 
> As Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh and other organizers of the campaign have clearly stated in recent weeks, the Palestinian protests are aimed at thwarting US President Donald Trump's yet-to-be-announced plan for peace in the Middle East.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the first and last bullet points, while accurate, don’t drill down on the difficult position the Egyptian government faces. They know from experience that their border and territory is threatened by Pal’istanian terrorists. The Egyptians, like Israel, are faced with an elaborate network of tunnels that obviously brings risks to their borders and beyond.
> 
> But, as the article later describes, the Pal’Istanians and their supporters have an obvious agenda to promote and that doesn’t (yet) require attacking the Egyptian border. I suspect if that attack happens, we’re going to see none of the restraint that the IDF has shown. That scenario could leave Pal’Istanian bodies several deep if the Peaceful Inner Struggle moves to the Rafah crossing area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas never had any inclination of attacking Egypt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet Egyptian authorities claimed Hamas conspired with the Muslim Brotherhood to break Morsi out of prison and attack the Egyptian government during the riots.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, OK.
Click to expand...

*The Egyptian army announced it is detaining ousted President Mohamed Morsi over alleged links with the Palestinian militant group Hamas in connection with his escape, along with other Muslim Brotherhood leaders, from prison in 2011 during the revolution, which saw the fall of former President Hosni Mubarak. In addition to conspiring with Hamas, the army ...*

*Morsi accused of plotting with Hamas ahead of massive rallies in Egypt*

*CAIRO (Reuters) - Egypt has accused exiled Muslim Brotherhood officials of conspiring with Gaza-based Hamas militants to assassinate Public Prosecutor Hisham Barakat last year and arrested 14 people in connection with the attack.*

*https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...amas-of-assassinating-prosecutor-idUSKCN0W80G*

Are you really as ignorant as you appear to be or are you just lying?


----------



## Sixties Fan

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some frank and direct observations on the Tire Riots being waged by Arabs-Moslems is refreshing.
> 
> *Palestinians: The Real Gaza Blockade*
> 
> Palestinians: The Real Gaza Blockade
> 
> 
> The Rafah border crossing is the Gaza Strip's single opening to Egypt and the rest of the Arab world. That border crossing is where the real suffering of the Palestinians has been taking place.
> 
> 
> The Gaza Strip could be a livable environment if the Egyptians opened the Rafah terminal to allow the world to come and help the Palestinians living there.
> 
> 
> As Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh and other organizers of the campaign have clearly stated in recent weeks, the Palestinian protests are aimed at thwarting US President Donald Trump's yet-to-be-announced plan for peace in the Middle East.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the first and last bullet points, while accurate, don’t drill down on the difficult position the Egyptian government faces. They know from experience that their border and territory is threatened by Pal’istanian terrorists. The Egyptians, like Israel, are faced with an elaborate network of tunnels that obviously brings risks to their borders and beyond.
> 
> But, as the article later describes, the Pal’Istanians and their supporters have an obvious agenda to promote and that doesn’t (yet) require attacking the Egyptian border. I suspect if that attack happens, we’re going to see none of the restraint that the IDF has shown. That scenario could leave Pal’Istanian bodies several deep if the Peaceful Inner Struggle moves to the Rafah crossing area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas never had any inclination of attacking Egypt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet Egyptian authorities claimed Hamas conspired with the Muslim Brotherhood to break Morsi out of prison and attack the Egyptian government during the riots.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, OK.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Egyptian army announced it is detaining ousted President Mohamed Morsi over alleged links with the Palestinian militant group Hamas in connection with his escape, along with other Muslim Brotherhood leaders, from prison in 2011 during the revolution, which saw the fall of former President Hosni Mubarak. In addition to conspiring with Hamas, the army ...*
> 
> *Morsi accused of plotting with Hamas ahead of massive rallies in Egypt*
> 
> *CAIRO (Reuters) - Egypt has accused exiled Muslim Brotherhood officials of conspiring with Gaza-based Hamas militants to assassinate Public Prosecutor Hisham Barakat last year and arrested 14 people in connection with the attack.*
> 
> *https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...amas-of-assassinating-prosecutor-idUSKCN0W80G*
> 
> Are you really as ignorant as you appear to be or are you just lying?
Click to expand...

Please, stop derailing the thread.
Thank you.


----------



## Hollie

Nothing says "Islam" like Friday prayers at the mosque to fire up the islamic rabble with that desire to get out and spread some death and destruction in the name of a 7th century Arab warlord.



*Friday Sermon by Gaza Cleric Musa Abu Jleidan: The "Return March" Goes Hand in Hand with Jihad by the Sword; The Jews Are the Philosophers of Terrorism and Crime*

*Friday Sermon by Gaza Cleric Musa Abu Jleidan: The "Return March" Goes Hand in Hand with Jihad by the Sword; The Jews Are the Philosophers of Terrorism and Crime*

In a Friday sermon, Gaza cleric Sheikh Musa Abu Jleidan said that the "Great Return March" is a "form of Jihad" that "does not eliminate the need for Jihad by the sword, by missiles, and by rockets." "They go hand in hand," he said. Speaking at Masjid Al-Abrar, Rafah, on April 27, Sheikh Abu Jleidan further said that the Jews "are the philosophers of terrorism and crime, people of treachery and deceit, who slayed the prophets of Allah." The sermon was posted on Sheikh Abu Jleidan's YouTube channel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Click on  X


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some frank and direct observations on the Tire Riots being waged by Arabs-Moslems is refreshing.
> 
> *Palestinians: The Real Gaza Blockade*
> 
> Palestinians: The Real Gaza Blockade
> 
> 
> The Rafah border crossing is the Gaza Strip's single opening to Egypt and the rest of the Arab world. That border crossing is where the real suffering of the Palestinians has been taking place.
> 
> 
> The Gaza Strip could be a livable environment if the Egyptians opened the Rafah terminal to allow the world to come and help the Palestinians living there.
> 
> 
> As Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh and other organizers of the campaign have clearly stated in recent weeks, the Palestinian protests are aimed at thwarting US President Donald Trump's yet-to-be-announced plan for peace in the Middle East.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the first and last bullet points, while accurate, don’t drill down on the difficult position the Egyptian government faces. They know from experience that their border and territory is threatened by Pal’istanian terrorists. The Egyptians, like Israel, are faced with an elaborate network of tunnels that obviously brings risks to their borders and beyond.
> 
> But, as the article later describes, the Pal’Istanians and their supporters have an obvious agenda to promote and that doesn’t (yet) require attacking the Egyptian border. I suspect if that attack happens, we’re going to see none of the restraint that the IDF has shown. That scenario could leave Pal’Istanian bodies several deep if the Peaceful Inner Struggle moves to the Rafah crossing area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas never had any inclination of attacking Egypt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet Egyptian authorities claimed Hamas conspired with the Muslim Brotherhood to break Morsi out of prison and attack the Egyptian government during the riots.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, OK.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Egyptian army announced it is detaining ousted President Mohamed Morsi over alleged links with the Palestinian militant group Hamas in connection with his escape, along with other Muslim Brotherhood leaders, from prison in 2011 during the revolution, which saw the fall of former President Hosni Mubarak. In addition to conspiring with Hamas, the army ...*
> 
> *Morsi accused of plotting with Hamas ahead of massive rallies in Egypt*
> 
> *CAIRO (Reuters) - Egypt has accused exiled Muslim Brotherhood officials of conspiring with Gaza-based Hamas militants to assassinate Public Prosecutor Hisham Barakat last year and arrested 14 people in connection with the attack.*
> 
> *https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...amas-of-assassinating-prosecutor-idUSKCN0W80G*
> 
> Are you really as ignorant as you appear to be or are you just lying?
Click to expand...

*alleged,  accused
*
Yeah, there are some facts to sink you teeth into.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some frank and direct observations on the Tire Riots being waged by Arabs-Moslems is refreshing.
> 
> *Palestinians: The Real Gaza Blockade*
> 
> Palestinians: The Real Gaza Blockade
> 
> 
> The Rafah border crossing is the Gaza Strip's single opening to Egypt and the rest of the Arab world. That border crossing is where the real suffering of the Palestinians has been taking place.
> 
> 
> The Gaza Strip could be a livable environment if the Egyptians opened the Rafah terminal to allow the world to come and help the Palestinians living there.
> 
> 
> As Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh and other organizers of the campaign have clearly stated in recent weeks, the Palestinian protests are aimed at thwarting US President Donald Trump's yet-to-be-announced plan for peace in the Middle East.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the first and last bullet points, while accurate, don’t drill down on the difficult position the Egyptian government faces. They know from experience that their border and territory is threatened by Pal’istanian terrorists. The Egyptians, like Israel, are faced with an elaborate network of tunnels that obviously brings risks to their borders and beyond.
> 
> But, as the article later describes, the Pal’Istanians and their supporters have an obvious agenda to promote and that doesn’t (yet) require attacking the Egyptian border. I suspect if that attack happens, we’re going to see none of the restraint that the IDF has shown. That scenario could leave Pal’Istanian bodies several deep if the Peaceful Inner Struggle moves to the Rafah crossing area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas never had any inclination of attacking Egypt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet Egyptian authorities claimed Hamas conspired with the Muslim Brotherhood to break Morsi out of prison and attack the Egyptian government during the riots.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, OK.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Egyptian army announced it is detaining ousted President Mohamed Morsi over alleged links with the Palestinian militant group Hamas in connection with his escape, along with other Muslim Brotherhood leaders, from prison in 2011 during the revolution, which saw the fall of former President Hosni Mubarak. In addition to conspiring with Hamas, the army ...*
> 
> *Morsi accused of plotting with Hamas ahead of massive rallies in Egypt*
> 
> *CAIRO (Reuters) - Egypt has accused exiled Muslim Brotherhood officials of conspiring with Gaza-based Hamas militants to assassinate Public Prosecutor Hisham Barakat last year and arrested 14 people in connection with the attack.*
> 
> *https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...amas-of-assassinating-prosecutor-idUSKCN0W80G*
> 
> Are you really as ignorant as you appear to be or are you just lying?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *alleged,  accused
> *
> Yeah, there are some facts to sink you teeth into.
Click to expand...

Ok, you alleged that Hamas never attacked Egypt and Egypt alleged that they did.


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some frank and direct observations on the Tire Riots being waged by Arabs-Moslems is refreshing.
> 
> *Palestinians: The Real Gaza Blockade*
> 
> Palestinians: The Real Gaza Blockade
> 
> 
> The Rafah border crossing is the Gaza Strip's single opening to Egypt and the rest of the Arab world. That border crossing is where the real suffering of the Palestinians has been taking place.
> 
> 
> The Gaza Strip could be a livable environment if the Egyptians opened the Rafah terminal to allow the world to come and help the Palestinians living there.
> 
> 
> As Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh and other organizers of the campaign have clearly stated in recent weeks, the Palestinian protests are aimed at thwarting US President Donald Trump's yet-to-be-announced plan for peace in the Middle East.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the first and last bullet points, while accurate, don’t drill down on the difficult position the Egyptian government faces. They know from experience that their border and territory is threatened by Pal’istanian terrorists. The Egyptians, like Israel, are faced with an elaborate network of tunnels that obviously brings risks to their borders and beyond.
> 
> But, as the article later describes, the Pal’Istanians and their supporters have an obvious agenda to promote and that doesn’t (yet) require attacking the Egyptian border. I suspect if that attack happens, we’re going to see none of the restraint that the IDF has shown. That scenario could leave Pal’Istanian bodies several deep if the Peaceful Inner Struggle moves to the Rafah crossing area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas never had any inclination of attacking Egypt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet Egyptian authorities claimed Hamas conspired with the Muslim Brotherhood to break Morsi out of prison and attack the Egyptian government during the riots.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, OK.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Egyptian army announced it is detaining ousted President Mohamed Morsi over alleged links with the Palestinian militant group Hamas in connection with his escape, along with other Muslim Brotherhood leaders, from prison in 2011 during the revolution, which saw the fall of former President Hosni Mubarak. In addition to conspiring with Hamas, the army ...*
> 
> *Morsi accused of plotting with Hamas ahead of massive rallies in Egypt*
> 
> *CAIRO (Reuters) - Egypt has accused exiled Muslim Brotherhood officials of conspiring with Gaza-based Hamas militants to assassinate Public Prosecutor Hisham Barakat last year and arrested 14 people in connection with the attack.*
> 
> *https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...amas-of-assassinating-prosecutor-idUSKCN0W80G*
> 
> Are you really as ignorant as you appear to be or are you just lying?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *alleged,  accused
> *
> Yeah, there are some facts to sink you teeth into.
Click to expand...

Schmuck, Hamas built tunnels into Egypt and managed to use them to murder Egyptians.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas never had any inclination of attacking Egypt.
> 
> 
> 
> And yet Egyptian authorities claimed Hamas conspired with the Muslim Brotherhood to break Morsi out of prison and attack the Egyptian government during the riots.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, OK.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Egyptian army announced it is detaining ousted President Mohamed Morsi over alleged links with the Palestinian militant group Hamas in connection with his escape, along with other Muslim Brotherhood leaders, from prison in 2011 during the revolution, which saw the fall of former President Hosni Mubarak. In addition to conspiring with Hamas, the army ...*
> 
> *Morsi accused of plotting with Hamas ahead of massive rallies in Egypt*
> 
> *CAIRO (Reuters) - Egypt has accused exiled Muslim Brotherhood officials of conspiring with Gaza-based Hamas militants to assassinate Public Prosecutor Hisham Barakat last year and arrested 14 people in connection with the attack.*
> 
> *https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...amas-of-assassinating-prosecutor-idUSKCN0W80G*
> 
> Are you really as ignorant as you appear to be or are you just lying?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *alleged,  accused
> *
> Yeah, there are some facts to sink you teeth into.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Schmuck, Hamas built tunnels into Egypt and managed to use them to murder Egyptians.
Click to expand...

They also          stole government subsidized food and fuel to sell it back in Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas never had any inclination of attacking Egypt.
> 
> 
> 
> And yet Egyptian authorities claimed Hamas conspired with the Muslim Brotherhood to break Morsi out of prison and attack the Egyptian government during the riots.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, OK.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Egyptian army announced it is detaining ousted President Mohamed Morsi over alleged links with the Palestinian militant group Hamas in connection with his escape, along with other Muslim Brotherhood leaders, from prison in 2011 during the revolution, which saw the fall of former President Hosni Mubarak. In addition to conspiring with Hamas, the army ...*
> 
> *Morsi accused of plotting with Hamas ahead of massive rallies in Egypt*
> 
> *CAIRO (Reuters) - Egypt has accused exiled Muslim Brotherhood officials of conspiring with Gaza-based Hamas militants to assassinate Public Prosecutor Hisham Barakat last year and arrested 14 people in connection with the attack.*
> 
> *https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...amas-of-assassinating-prosecutor-idUSKCN0W80G*
> 
> Are you really as ignorant as you appear to be or are you just lying?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *alleged,  accused
> *
> Yeah, there are some facts to sink you teeth into.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, you alleged that Hamas never attacked Egypt and Egypt alleged that they did.
Click to expand...

So now we need to see some proof.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet Egyptian authorities claimed Hamas conspired with the Muslim Brotherhood to break Morsi out of prison and attack the Egyptian government during the riots.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, OK.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Egyptian army announced it is detaining ousted President Mohamed Morsi over alleged links with the Palestinian militant group Hamas in connection with his escape, along with other Muslim Brotherhood leaders, from prison in 2011 during the revolution, which saw the fall of former President Hosni Mubarak. In addition to conspiring with Hamas, the army ...*
> 
> *Morsi accused of plotting with Hamas ahead of massive rallies in Egypt*
> 
> *CAIRO (Reuters) - Egypt has accused exiled Muslim Brotherhood officials of conspiring with Gaza-based Hamas militants to assassinate Public Prosecutor Hisham Barakat last year and arrested 14 people in connection with the attack.*
> 
> *https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...amas-of-assassinating-prosecutor-idUSKCN0W80G*
> 
> Are you really as ignorant as you appear to be or are you just lying?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *alleged,  accused
> *
> Yeah, there are some facts to sink you teeth into.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, you alleged that Hamas never attacked Egypt and Egypt alleged that they did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So now we need to see some proof.
Click to expand...

You could try to be honest once in a while just to see what it feels like.


----------



## Sixties Fan

An IDF force shot a terrorist who attempted to infiltrate Israel by crossing the security fence in the northern Gaza Strip this morning, Thursday.

A knife and a wire cutter were found on the body of the suspect, who was evacuated by IDF forces for medical treatment and further questioning.

(full article online)

IDF force thwarts infiltration attempt in northern Gaza


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some frank and direct observations on the Tire Riots being waged by Arabs-Moslems is refreshing.
> 
> *Palestinians: The Real Gaza Blockade*
> 
> Palestinians: The Real Gaza Blockade
> 
> 
> The Rafah border crossing is the Gaza Strip's single opening to Egypt and the rest of the Arab world. That border crossing is where the real suffering of the Palestinians has been taking place.
> 
> 
> The Gaza Strip could be a livable environment if the Egyptians opened the Rafah terminal to allow the world to come and help the Palestinians living there.
> 
> 
> As Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh and other organizers of the campaign have clearly stated in recent weeks, the Palestinian protests are aimed at thwarting US President Donald Trump's yet-to-be-announced plan for peace in the Middle East.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the first and last bullet points, while accurate, don’t drill down on the difficult position the Egyptian government faces. They know from experience that their border and territory is threatened by Pal’istanian terrorists. The Egyptians, like Israel, are faced with an elaborate network of tunnels that obviously brings risks to their borders and beyond.
> 
> But, as the article later describes, the Pal’Istanians and their supporters have an obvious agenda to promote and that doesn’t (yet) require attacking the Egyptian border. I suspect if that attack happens, we’re going to see none of the restraint that the IDF has shown. That scenario could leave Pal’Istanian bodies several deep if the Peaceful Inner Struggle moves to the Rafah crossing area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas never had any inclination of attacking Egypt.
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## Sixties Fan

The border fence is not only a symbol of Israeli sovereignty. It is a symbol of non-Muslim sovereignty that — in their radical eyes — is seen as “oppressing and persecuting Muslims.” Therefore, it must be destroyed in order to preserve and maintain the “purity of Islam.” Suicidal attacks against the fence, like those against other targets throughout the world, are carried out by those willing to sacrifice themselves for what they believe is a “holy” purpose. That’s why they are called “martyrs.” They are willing to die for their cause — Islam.

For Hamas and Islamists, the fence is a perfect symbol; it defines the conflict. The “good guys” are on one side; the “bad guys” are on the other side. Breaching and destroying the fence becomes a way of demonstrating not only one’s courage, but — more importantly — one’s faith. It is not only an act of self-sacrifice, but one of self-affirmation and redemption.

Everyone who planned, supported, and engaged in the Disengagement should have known, or at least anticipated, that Israel would likely be drawn into quicksand from which it could not escape and would only further the conflict. The riots at the fence confirm the warnings and predictions at the time, which have come true.

(full article online)

Gaza’s Border Fence: A Symbol of Israeli Sovereignty


----------



## Sixties Fan

The New York Times decided to report from inside the heart of the Palestinian violence currently taking place on Israel’s border with Gaza under the headline: “Plan to Storm Fence Gets Bloody Preview in Gaza.”

So what of this fence?

For the first time in five weeks of protests, some reached the second barrier — an *electrified*, sensor-laden fence that marks the edge of Israeli territory — and tried to climb it or pull it down. A few hundred yards beyond it lies the Israeli farming community of Nahal Oz. …

Ibrahim Shahin, 26, said he was among a group of about 12 men who cut through the barbed wire and then began climbing the *electrified fence*.

An “electrified” fence?

Were the 12 men climbing this fence wearing rubber gloves and boots?

Of course not — because nobody will be shocked or electrocuted if they touch either the Gaza fence or the security barrier that prevents Palestinian terrorists from infiltrating into Israel from the disputed territories.

Describing both of these structures as “electrified” conjures such images, and this language is regularly employed by anti-Israel propagandists to challenge the reality of these fences as defensive and non-lethal measures.

(full article online)

The New York Times Electrifies Israel’s Gaza Fence


----------



## Sixties Fan

Later in 2012;

  Al-Qaeda has been blamed for a recent series of forest fires across Europe, as the head of Russia's Federal Security Service claimed they were set by arsonists as part of the group's low-cost attack strategy. "One should note that setting fires to forests in the countries of the European Union is a new tendency in al-Qaeda's strategy of a 'thousand cuts'," Alexander Bortnikov said, according to state news agency RIA Novosti, at a meeting of heads of security agencies.

"This method allows (al-Qaeda) to inflict significant economic and moral damage without serious preliminary preparations, technical equipment or significant expenses."It's obvious to Western observers that a purposefully set forest fire is a form of terrorism.
Well, sometimes.

(full article online)

"Non-violent protest" in Gaza would be considered terrorism in US and EU ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas leader: Our blood will go to Jerusalem


----------



## Sixties Fan

Army warns Gazans against flying firebomb kites into Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Army warns Gazans against flying firebomb kites into Israel


What are they going to do? Shoot somebody?

Ehh, it keeps those fuckers on their toes.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Why don't you attempt to make your position and presentation much more clear than this? 



P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Army warns Gazans against flying firebomb kites into Israel
> 
> 
> 
> What are they going to do? Shoot somebody?
> 
> Ehh, it keeps those fuckers on their toes.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Are you suggesting that the Arab Palestinian pyromaniacs are participating in a form of non-violent protest?
Are you condoning these childish yet very dangerous actions?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Why don't you attempt to make your position and presentation much more clear than this?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Army warns Gazans against flying firebomb kites into Israel
> 
> 
> 
> What are they going to do? Shoot somebody?
> 
> Ehh, it keeps those fuckers on their toes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Are you suggesting that the Arab Palestinian pyromaniacs are participating in a form of non-violent protest?
> Are you condoning these childish yet very dangerous actions?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Oh, it's like Israel never destroyed anything in Gaza.

BTW, what is Israel doing to deflate this problem?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Why don't you attempt to make your position and presentation much more clear than this?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Army warns Gazans against flying firebomb kites into Israel
> 
> 
> 
> What are they going to do? Shoot somebody?
> 
> Ehh, it keeps those fuckers on their toes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Are you suggesting that the Arab Palestinian pyromaniacs are participating in a form of non-violent protest?
> Are you condoning these childish yet very dangerous actions?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, it's like Israel never destroyed anything in Gaza.
> 
> BTW, what is Israel doing to deflate this problem?
Click to expand...

Oh, it's like Gaza never fired rockets at Israel (It is a declaration of war anywhere else in the world), or had Hamas soldiers infiltrate Israeli territory to kill or kidnap Israelis, or violate International Laws in any other way, like......digging tunnels into Israeli territory for the same purpose?

What is Israel going to do about the pyromaniacs?

They are going to start shooting at them.

What is it?  $500 if the Palestinians get wounded?

How much if they get killed?

What did Hamas promise to pay them and has been paying them to be part of this "peaceful" protest where Hamas operatives keep trying to break into a sovereign country?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Why don't you attempt to make your position and presentation much more clear than this?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Army warns Gazans against flying firebomb kites into Israel
> 
> 
> 
> What are they going to do? Shoot somebody?
> 
> Ehh, it keeps those fuckers on their toes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Are you suggesting that the Arab Palestinian pyromaniacs are participating in a form of non-violent protest?
> Are you condoning these childish yet very dangerous actions?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, it's like Israel never destroyed anything in Gaza.
> 
> BTW, what is Israel doing to deflate this problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, it's like Gaza never fired rockets at Israel (It is a declaration of war anywhere else in the world), or had Hamas soldiers infiltrate Israeli territory to kill or kidnap Israelis, or violate International Laws in any other way, like......digging tunnels into Israeli territory for the same purpose?
> 
> What is Israel going to do about the pyromaniacs?
> 
> They are going to start shooting at them.
> 
> What is it?  $500 if the Palestinians get wounded?
> 
> How much if they get killed?
> 
> What did Hamas promise to pay them and has been paying them to be part of this "peaceful" protest where Hamas operatives keep trying to break into a sovereign country?
Click to expand...

You are a hoot. You are way too late to play the rocket card.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Why don't you attempt to make your position and presentation much more clear than this?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Army warns Gazans against flying firebomb kites into Israel
> 
> 
> 
> What are they going to do? Shoot somebody?
> 
> Ehh, it keeps those fuckers on their toes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Are you suggesting that the Arab Palestinian pyromaniacs are participating in a form of non-violent protest?
> Are you condoning these childish yet very dangerous actions?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, it's like Israel never destroyed anything in Gaza.
> 
> BTW, what is Israel doing to deflate this problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, it's like Gaza never fired rockets at Israel (It is a declaration of war anywhere else in the world), or had Hamas soldiers infiltrate Israeli territory to kill or kidnap Israelis, or violate International Laws in any other way, like......digging tunnels into Israeli territory for the same purpose?
> 
> What is Israel going to do about the pyromaniacs?
> 
> They are going to start shooting at them.
> 
> What is it?  $500 if the Palestinians get wounded?
> 
> How much if they get killed?
> 
> What did Hamas promise to pay them and has been paying them to be part of this "peaceful" protest where Hamas operatives keep trying to break into a sovereign country?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a hoot. You are way too late to play the rocket card.
Click to expand...

More bullshit from you, since you cannot explain why they are trying to invade a sovereign country, to kidnap, kill, etc.  Just as they did from 1920 till today.

Things just never change with Muslims.

" It is MUSLIM land  !!!!!  "


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Why don't you attempt to make your position and presentation much more clear than this?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What are they going to do? Shoot somebody?
> 
> Ehh, it keeps those fuckers on their toes.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Are you suggesting that the Arab Palestinian pyromaniacs are participating in a form of non-violent protest?
> Are you condoning these childish yet very dangerous actions?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, it's like Israel never destroyed anything in Gaza.
> 
> BTW, what is Israel doing to deflate this problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, it's like Gaza never fired rockets at Israel (It is a declaration of war anywhere else in the world), or had Hamas soldiers infiltrate Israeli territory to kill or kidnap Israelis, or violate International Laws in any other way, like......digging tunnels into Israeli territory for the same purpose?
> 
> What is Israel going to do about the pyromaniacs?
> 
> They are going to start shooting at them.
> 
> What is it?  $500 if the Palestinians get wounded?
> 
> How much if they get killed?
> 
> What did Hamas promise to pay them and has been paying them to be part of this "peaceful" protest where Hamas operatives keep trying to break into a sovereign country?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a hoot. You are way too late to play the rocket card.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More bullshit from you, since you cannot explain why they are trying to invade a sovereign country, to kidnap, kill, etc.  Just as they did from 1920 till today.
> 
> Things just never change with Muslims.
> 
> " It is MUSLIM land  !!!!!  "
Click to expand...

There is no border there. That is just Israel's cage around Gaza.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Why don't you attempt to make your position and presentation much more clear than this?
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Are you suggesting that the Arab Palestinian pyromaniacs are participating in a form of non-violent protest?
> Are you condoning these childish yet very dangerous actions?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, it's like Israel never destroyed anything in Gaza.
> 
> BTW, what is Israel doing to deflate this problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, it's like Gaza never fired rockets at Israel (It is a declaration of war anywhere else in the world), or had Hamas soldiers infiltrate Israeli territory to kill or kidnap Israelis, or violate International Laws in any other way, like......digging tunnels into Israeli territory for the same purpose?
> 
> What is Israel going to do about the pyromaniacs?
> 
> They are going to start shooting at them.
> 
> What is it?  $500 if the Palestinians get wounded?
> 
> How much if they get killed?
> 
> What did Hamas promise to pay them and has been paying them to be part of this "peaceful" protest where Hamas operatives keep trying to break into a sovereign country?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a hoot. You are way too late to play the rocket card.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More bullshit from you, since you cannot explain why they are trying to invade a sovereign country, to kidnap, kill, etc.  Just as they did from 1920 till today.
> 
> Things just never change with Muslims.
> 
> " It is MUSLIM land  !!!!!  "
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no border there. That is just Israel's cage around Gaza.
Click to expand...

Go tell it to the UN.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> There is no border there. That is just Israel's cage around Gaza.



But if Gaza wants to be an independent nation with self-determination she is going to have to accept a border there. 

She will have to treat it as an international border along with all the consequences of that decision. 

What is stopping her from doing so?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Why don't you attempt to make your position and presentation much more clear than this?
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Are you suggesting that the Arab Palestinian pyromaniacs are participating in a form of non-violent protest?
> Are you condoning these childish yet very dangerous actions?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, it's like Israel never destroyed anything in Gaza.
> 
> BTW, what is Israel doing to deflate this problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, it's like Gaza never fired rockets at Israel (It is a declaration of war anywhere else in the world), or had Hamas soldiers infiltrate Israeli territory to kill or kidnap Israelis, or violate International Laws in any other way, like......digging tunnels into Israeli territory for the same purpose?
> 
> What is Israel going to do about the pyromaniacs?
> 
> They are going to start shooting at them.
> 
> What is it?  $500 if the Palestinians get wounded?
> 
> How much if they get killed?
> 
> What did Hamas promise to pay them and has been paying them to be part of this "peaceful" protest where Hamas operatives keep trying to break into a sovereign country?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a hoot. You are way too late to play the rocket card.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More bullshit from you, since you cannot explain why they are trying to invade a sovereign country, to kidnap, kill, etc.  Just as they did from 1920 till today.
> 
> Things just never change with Muslims.
> 
> " It is MUSLIM land  !!!!!  "
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no border there. That is just Israel's cage around Gaza.
Click to expand...


Not at all. The Israeli border security is defensive. Those security measures protect Israeli citizens from the Islamic terrorists. 

If you had been paying attention, you would have heard that your gee-had heroes are trying to get _in to_ Israel to “rip the hearts out” of Jews.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Why don't you attempt to make your position and presentation much more clear than this?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Army warns Gazans against flying firebomb kites into Israel
> 
> 
> 
> What are they going to do? Shoot somebody?
> 
> Ehh, it keeps those fuckers on their toes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Are you suggesting that the Arab Palestinian pyromaniacs are participating in a form of non-violent protest?
> Are you condoning these childish yet very dangerous actions?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, it's like Israel never destroyed anything in Gaza.
> 
> BTW, what is Israel doing to deflate this problem?
Click to expand...


Israel is defending its border and its citizens from violent, Dark Age retrogrades who would kill and maim Israeli citizens if they could. Israel is deflating the Islamic gee-had. 

BTW, deflating Islamic terrorist aggression as a right of self defense is a necessity you will disagree with. 

You and those at your madrassah may want to send a YouTube video to the UN announcing your Arab warlord given right to kill Jews. 

There’s a good fellow.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Well, I'm not sure exactly what YOU define as a border.



P F Tinmore said:


> There is no border there. That is just Israel's cage around Gaza.


*(COMMENT)*

Certainly, Israel claims sovereignty on one side of the line.

Certainly, Israel exercises border, customs and immigration controls with respect to the line.

Certainly, all of the Regional Powers recognize the existence of the Gaza Strip, its boundaries and location.

The idea that there is no border there is simply a propaganda ploy.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

YES!  I agree.



Sixties Fan said:


> More bullshit from you, since you cannot explain why they are trying to invade a sovereign country, to kidnap, kill, etc.  Just as they did from 1920 till today.
> 
> Things just never change with Muslims.
> 
> " It is MUSLIM land  !!!!!  "


*(COMMENT)*

It seems so very obvious that the Israeli actions are mitigated by the intentional establishment of a set of conditions by the Arab Palestinians causing a criminal confrontation with the intent to create an international incident.

Most REspectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Well, I'm not sure exactly what YOU define as a border.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no border there. That is just Israel's cage around Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Certainly, Israel claims sovereignty on one side of the line.
> 
> Certainly, Israel exercises border, customs and immigration controls with respect to the line.
> 
> Certainly, all of the Regional Powers recognize the existence of the Gaza Strip, its boundaries and location.
> 
> The idea that there is no border there is simply a propaganda ploy.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Not everything Israel claims is true.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

We often exchange views on the core issues of the Arab Palestinian.  But seldom do we actually sit down and talk about the core issues _(of which there are several)_ behind the Israeli actions.



P F Tinmore said:


> Not everything Israel claims is true.


*(COMMENT)*

Chief among the core issues of the Israelis is "sovereignty;" the exercise of full rights and powers over the encapsulation of territory which is:

•  That territory the Israelis will defend against the threat or use of force against the compromise of its integrity and political independence.

•  A territory in which the Israelis will resist the any intervention within the domestic jurisdiction.

•  A territory in which the Israelis have the absolute right to exercise self-defense against a war of aggression that constitutes a crime against the peace.

•  To defend against that which the UN is incapable of handling, against an entity using propaganda to incite an external population to violate the established boundaries shielding the political penetration into the territorial integrity of Israel.​
In short, the primary core  issues all lead back to Israeli Sovereignty and Territorial Integrity.

✪  Israel has it and means to keep it.

✪  The Arab Palestinians wants to take it away.​
Everything else is just drama.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

The army says some 7,000 Palestinians are taking part in this week’s clashes along the Gaza border.

The IDF adds that Palestinians participating in the riots burned tires, threw rocks at soldiers and attempted to fly kites carrying burning objects over the border fence.

It also says an explosive device was thrown at the fence.

IDF: 7,000 Palestinians take part in Gaza border clashes


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF thwarts 2 attempts to damage Gaza border fence, enter Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

We’re now a month into the Hamas-orchestrated “March of Return” along the Gazaborder, and the situation is unfolding exactly as anybody with a modicum of historical perspective would have predicted. Riots, gunfire and scores of terrorists, intermingled with the young and the innocent killed after their brainwashing by a cynical, power-hungry terrorist organization whose leaders always send someone else’s kids to join the martyrs in a culture of death.

Young Arabs, who like their Israeli counterparts, surely dreamed of becoming engineers, doctors and nurses, entrepreneurs, professors, chefs and painters. So with some 1,500 Palestinians wounded or dead — and the reality that Israel is there to stay — any leaders who cared a whit about their children would fold the tents. Why then do Gaza’s rulers insist on putting Palestinian children in harm’s way?

(full article online)

When children are cannon fodder


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> In short, the primary core issues all lead back to Israeli Sovereignty and Territorial Integrity.


And when asked how Israel legitimately got that from the Palestinians, everybody starts dancing.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Palestinians, helping the world with suicide belts.  Their newest invention:
Flaming Kites ]

פרסום ראשון: עפיפונים ממולכדים נחתו ביישובי עוטף עזה


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> We’re now a month into the Hamas-orchestrated “March of Return” along the Gazaborder, and the situation is unfolding exactly as anybody with a modicum of historical perspective would have predicted. Riots, gunfire and scores of terrorists, intermingled with the young and the innocent killed after their brainwashing by a cynical, power-hungry terrorist organization whose leaders always send someone else’s kids to join the martyrs in a culture of death.
> 
> Young Arabs, who like their Israeli counterparts, surely dreamed of becoming engineers, doctors and nurses, entrepreneurs, professors, chefs and painters. So with some 1,500 Palestinians wounded or dead — and the reality that Israel is there to stay — any leaders who cared a whit about their children would fold the tents. Why then do Gaza’s rulers insist on putting Palestinian children in harm’s way?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> When children are cannon fodder


Nothing new here. The Zionists imported settlers by the boatload to be cannon fodder for their settler colonial project.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In short, the primary core issues all lead back to Israeli Sovereignty and Territorial Integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> And when asked how Israel legitimately got that from the Palestinians, everybody starts dancing.
Click to expand...

Jews are also Palestinians, as "Palestine" is their indigenous homeland.
They did not need permission from the invading Arabs, now Palestinians, as well.

They got it legally from those who won WWI, because the Ottomans were too stupid to side with Germany.....and LOST BIG  TIME.

Jews are from Judea, a name which was changed by the good ol' Romans in 135 CE into Syria Palestina.   It is still Judea.  It is still Israel, as Christianity and Islam have always called the area.

Do you need a good tune to dance to this?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> We’re now a month into the Hamas-orchestrated “March of Return” along the Gazaborder, and the situation is unfolding exactly as anybody with a modicum of historical perspective would have predicted. Riots, gunfire and scores of terrorists, intermingled with the young and the innocent killed after their brainwashing by a cynical, power-hungry terrorist organization whose leaders always send someone else’s kids to join the martyrs in a culture of death.
> 
> Young Arabs, who like their Israeli counterparts, surely dreamed of becoming engineers, doctors and nurses, entrepreneurs, professors, chefs and painters. So with some 1,500 Palestinians wounded or dead — and the reality that Israel is there to stay — any leaders who cared a whit about their children would fold the tents. Why then do Gaza’s rulers insist on putting Palestinian children in harm’s way?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> When children are cannon fodder
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing new here. The Zionists imported settlers by the boatload to be cannon fodder for their settler colonial project.
Click to expand...

That was such a cute sentence.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In short, the primary core issues all lead back to Israeli Sovereignty and Territorial Integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> And when asked how Israel legitimately got that from the Palestinians, everybody starts dancing.
Click to expand...


As you know, there is a thread dedicated to addressing the very whining you engage in across multiple threads. How many more times does your whining and lack of historical knowledge need to be explained to you?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> They got it legally from those who won WWI, because the Ottomans were too stupid to side with Germany.....and LOST BIG TIME.


OK, that is half of the story.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Dozens of Palestinians broke into the Gaza side of the Kerem Shalom border crossing between Israel and the Hamas-run Strip on Friday evening, setting fire to the gas pipeline that supplies fuel to the Strip, the army said.

The Gazans, who did not break through to the Israeli side of the border, trashed their own supply infrastructure, Israeli military officials said.

(full article online)

Palestinian youths set Gaza’s own gas line on fire at weekly fence protests


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In short, the primary core issues all lead back to Israeli Sovereignty and Territorial Integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> And when asked how Israel legitimately got that from the Palestinians, everybody starts dancing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As you know, there is a thread dedicated to addressing the very whining you engage in across multiple threads. How many more times does your whining and lack of historical knowledge need to be explained to you?
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In short, the primary core issues all lead back to Israeli Sovereignty and Territorial Integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> And when asked how Israel legitimately got that from the Palestinians, everybody starts dancing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As you know, there is a thread dedicated to addressing the very whining you engage in across multiple threads. How many more times does your whining and lack of historical knowledge need to be explained to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



Your usual retreat to silly cartoons.

Its a shame that you let your hurt Islamo-feelings prevent you from gaining some knowledge of history.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> They got it legally from those who won WWI, because the Ottomans were too stupid to side with Germany.....and LOST BIG TIME.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, that is half of the story.
Click to expand...


Shirley, you have a YouTube video?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

No one is dancing at all.  This is just another of your pro-Palestinian delusions.

Embedded in your statement is a patented falsehood.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In short, the primary core issues all lead back to Israeli Sovereignty and Territorial Integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> And when asked how Israel legitimately got that from the Palestinians, everybody starts dancing.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Relative to the Gaza Strip, the territory came under Israeli control in 1967; previously an Egyptian Military Governorship.  The All Palestine Government was disestablished as in 1959 (well before the Six Day War) with the remnants folded over into the Egyptian Military Governorship.

This idea that the Gaza Strip was under the sovereignty of some failed/funk quasi-Arab-Palestinian organization or government is simply not true; no matter how much the Hostile Arab Palestinian campaign would like it to be.

The Israelis took control from the Egyptians, not any Palestinian apparatus.  In the Peace Treaty between Israel and Egypt, the matter was settled between them _(parties to the conflict)_.  The Arab Palestinians, no matter how much they would have liked to have been a party included in the Peace Talks and subsequent settlement, they chose NOT to pursue the avenue of Peace under the Khartoum Resolution not to → establish peace, recognize, or negotiate.  They chose the path towards violence.

Nobody is dancing around the issue except for the Hostile Arab Palestinians that want to give the impression that prior to 2005, they had some sovereignty control over that piece of the territories.

_The effective control changed hands between the Egyptians and the Israelis._​
Don't start that crap about dancing around the issue.  It has been explained any number of times in any number of ways.  There was absolutely NO legal requirement to include the Arab Palestinians into the mix _(in point of fact, it was exactly the opposite)_.  The Arab Palestinians _(at the time)_ had an obligation to the Arab League *not to enter into talks* with the Israelis (_The Khartoum Resolution_).

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In short, the primary core issues all lead back to Israeli Sovereignty and Territorial Integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> And when asked how Israel legitimately got that from the Palestinians, everybody starts dancing.
Click to expand...


Israel legitimately got it from the Palestinians because the Jewish people are one of the two groups who have a national claim to that territory as THE indigenous peoples. This isn't hard, you know.


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> Don't start that crap about dancing around the issue.  It has been explained any number of times in any number of ways.  There was absolutely NO legal requirement to include the Arab Palestinians into the mix _(in point of fact, it was exactly the opposite)_.  The Arab Palestinians _(at the time)_ had an obligation to the Arab League *not to enter into talks* with the Israelis (_The Khartoum Resolution_).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R




While I agree there was not a legal requirement to include the Arab Palestinians into the mix, there certainly is now as the Arab Palestinians have emerged as a national entity. 

But for the exact same reason there is a definitive legal requirement in SPADES to include Israel into the mix. 

And either way Tinmore has no proper argument.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> This idea that the Gaza Strip was under the sovereignty of some failed/funk quasi-Arab-Palestinian organization or government is simply not true; no matter how much the Hostile Arab Palestinian campaign would like it to be.


Sovereignty belongs to the people. A government or state is not required.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This idea that the Gaza Strip was under the sovereignty of some failed/funk quasi-Arab-Palestinian organization or government is simply not true; no matter how much the Hostile Arab Palestinian campaign would like it to be.
> 
> 
> 
> Sovereignty belongs to the people. A government or state is not required.
Click to expand...


Not at all meaningful.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas 'March of Return' Violence Continues for Sixth Consecutive Week


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Hamas 'March of Return' Violence Continues for Sixth Consecutive Week


Unfortunately, violence is the only thing in Israel's tool box. You won't find any brains in there.


----------



## Hollie

I'm sure there are certain, identifiable organizations that will find it "illegal" for Israel to defend its borders from the islamic hordes attacking its border area. These same organizations are also generally silent toward doing the islamic hordes accountable for the choices they make. 

So, Hamas will no doubt carry on urging its minions to continue the acts of war, and the minions will mindlessly do as their told. 


State says use of live fire in Gaza protests within Israeli, international law

State attorneys on Sunday defended the army’s use of live ammunition during clashes with Palestinian demonstrators on the border with the Gaza Strip, saying the rules of engagement are within Israeli and international law, and that the riots cannot be considered simple civilian demonstrations.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This idea that the Gaza Strip was under the sovereignty of some failed/funk quasi-Arab-Palestinian organization or government is simply not true; no matter how much the Hostile Arab Palestinian campaign would like it to be.
> 
> 
> 
> Sovereignty belongs to the people. A government or state is not required.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not at all meaningful.
Click to expand...

Not to you obviously. That is why you keep coming back with stupid posts.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas 'March of Return' Violence Continues for Sixth Consecutive Week
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, violence is the only thing in Israel's tool box. You won't find any brains in there.
Click to expand...


I guessed you missed the news. It is the islamic hordes attacking the Israeli border. 

Aren't you paying attention?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This idea that the Gaza Strip was under the sovereignty of some failed/funk quasi-Arab-Palestinian organization or government is simply not true; no matter how much the Hostile Arab Palestinian campaign would like it to be.
> 
> 
> 
> Sovereignty belongs to the people. A government or state is not required.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not at all meaningful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not to you obviously. That is why you keep coming back with stupid posts.
Click to expand...


Settle down, chuckles. Your inability to articulate an argument is your issue to address.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I'm sure there are certain, identifiable organizations that will find it "illegal" for Israel to defend its borders from the islamic hordes attacking its border area. These same organizations are also generally silent toward doing the islamic hordes accountable for the choices they make.
> 
> So, Hamas will no doubt carry on urging its minions to continue the acts of war, and the minions will mindlessly do as their told.
> 
> 
> State says use of live fire in Gaza protests within Israeli, international law
> 
> State attorneys on Sunday defended the army’s use of live ammunition during clashes with Palestinian demonstrators on the border with the Gaza Strip, saying the rules of engagement are within Israeli and international law, and that the riots cannot be considered simple civilian demonstrations.





Hollie said:


> So, Hamas will no doubt carry on urging its minions to continue the acts of war, and the minions will mindlessly do as their told.


This is not a Hamas protest.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas 'March of Return' Violence Continues for Sixth Consecutive Week
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, violence is the only thing in Israel's tool box. You won't find any brains in there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guessed you missed the news. It is the islamic hordes attacking the Israeli border.
> 
> Aren't you paying attention?
Click to expand...

Deflection.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure there are certain, identifiable organizations that will find it "illegal" for Israel to defend its borders from the islamic hordes attacking its border area. These same organizations are also generally silent toward doing the islamic hordes accountable for the choices they make.
> 
> So, Hamas will no doubt carry on urging its minions to continue the acts of war, and the minions will mindlessly do as their told.
> 
> 
> State says use of live fire in Gaza protests within Israeli, international law
> 
> State attorneys on Sunday defended the army’s use of live ammunition during clashes with Palestinian demonstrators on the border with the Gaza Strip, saying the rules of engagement are within Israeli and international law, and that the riots cannot be considered simple civilian demonstrations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, Hamas will no doubt carry on urging its minions to continue the acts of war, and the minions will mindlessly do as their told.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is not a Hamas protest.
Click to expand...

I guess the dead islamic terrorists representing Hamas didn't get the email.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure there are certain, identifiable organizations that will find it "illegal" for Israel to defend its borders from the islamic hordes attacking its border area. These same organizations are also generally silent toward doing the islamic hordes accountable for the choices they make.
> 
> So, Hamas will no doubt carry on urging its minions to continue the acts of war, and the minions will mindlessly do as their told.
> 
> 
> State says use of live fire in Gaza protests within Israeli, international law
> 
> State attorneys on Sunday defended the army’s use of live ammunition during clashes with Palestinian demonstrators on the border with the Gaza Strip, saying the rules of engagement are within Israeli and international law, and that the riots cannot be considered simple civilian demonstrations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, Hamas will no doubt carry on urging its minions to continue the acts of war, and the minions will mindlessly do as their told.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is not a Hamas protest.
Click to expand...

It did not start as a Hamas project, but it has most certainly become one:

The Gaza “Return March” Splits Hamas and Organizers


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This idea that the Gaza Strip was under the sovereignty of some failed/funk quasi-Arab-Palestinian organization or government is simply not true; no matter how much the Hostile Arab Palestinian campaign would like it to be.
> 
> 
> 
> Sovereignty belongs to the people. A government or state is not required.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not at all meaningful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not to you obviously. That is why you keep coming back with stupid posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Settle down, chuckles. Your inability to articulate an argument is your issue to address.
Click to expand...

Your reading comprehension problems are not my fault.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas 'March of Return' Violence Continues for Sixth Consecutive Week
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, violence is the only thing in Israel's tool box. You won't find any brains in there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guessed you missed the news. It is the islamic hordes attacking the Israeli border.
> 
> Aren't you paying attention?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
Click to expand...


I get it. You weren't paying attention and you're embarrassed at not knowing the facts.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This idea that the Gaza Strip was under the sovereignty of some failed/funk quasi-Arab-Palestinian organization or government is simply not true; no matter how much the Hostile Arab Palestinian campaign would like it to be.
> 
> 
> 
> Sovereignty belongs to the people. A government or state is not required.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not at all meaningful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not to you obviously. That is why you keep coming back with stupid posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Settle down, chuckles. Your inability to articulate an argument is your issue to address.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your reading comprehension problems are not my fault.
Click to expand...


Your silly one-liners are pointless.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas 'March of Return' Violence Continues for Sixth Consecutive Week
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, violence is the only thing in Israel's tool box. You won't find any brains in there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guessed you missed the news. It is the islamic hordes attacking the Israeli border.
> 
> Aren't you paying attention?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I get it. You weren't paying attention and you're embarrassed at not knowing the facts.
Click to expand...

That didn't address my post. Deflection.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure there are certain, identifiable organizations that will find it "illegal" for Israel to defend its borders from the islamic hordes attacking its border area. These same organizations are also generally silent toward doing the islamic hordes accountable for the choices they make.
> 
> So, Hamas will no doubt carry on urging its minions to continue the acts of war, and the minions will mindlessly do as their told.
> 
> 
> State says use of live fire in Gaza protests within Israeli, international law
> 
> State attorneys on Sunday defended the army’s use of live ammunition during clashes with Palestinian demonstrators on the border with the Gaza Strip, saying the rules of engagement are within Israeli and international law, and that the riots cannot be considered simple civilian demonstrations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, Hamas will no doubt carry on urging its minions to continue the acts of war, and the minions will mindlessly do as their told.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is not a Hamas protest.
Click to expand...


You taking the role as the self-appointed spokesturban for Hamas is so cute.

IDF: At least 10 of the 15 killed at Gaza border were members of terror groups


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas 'March of Return' Violence Continues for Sixth Consecutive Week
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, violence is the only thing in Israel's tool box. You won't find any brains in there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guessed you missed the news. It is the islamic hordes attacking the Israeli border.
> 
> Aren't you paying attention?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I get it. You weren't paying attention and you're embarrassed at not knowing the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That didn't address my post. Deflection.
Click to expand...


Of course I did. 

Now is the time to post your usual cartoons and retreat in shame.


----------



## Hollie

The islamic Tire Burning Riots ended early for these knuckleheads.


https://www.google.com/amp/amp.heraldsun.com/news/nation-world/world/article208901044.html

*4 Islamic Jihad members killed in Gaza 'work accident' blast*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The islamic Tire Burning Riots ended early for these knuckleheads.
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/amp.heraldsun.com/news/nation-world/world/article208901044.html
> 
> *4 Islamic Jihad members killed in Gaza 'work accident' blast*


Dead link.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The islamic Tire Burning Riots ended early for these knuckleheads.
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/amp.heraldsun.com/news/nation-world/world/article208901044.html
> 
> *4 Islamic Jihad members killed in Gaza 'work accident' blast*
> 
> 
> 
> Dead link.
Click to expand...

Try this one:

4 Islamic Jihad members killed in Gaza 'work accident' blast

or this one:

4 Islamic Jihad members killed in Gaza ‘work accident’ - The Boston Globe


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

You do not read very well.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This idea that the Gaza Strip was under the sovereignty of some failed/funk quasi-Arab-Palestinian organization or government is simply not true; no matter how much the Hostile Arab Palestinian campaign would like it to be.
> 
> 
> 
> Sovereignty belongs to the people. A government or state is not required.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

We are talking about two different kinds of Sovereignty.

I will not waste my time anymore trying to educate you.  If you want to understand the International understanding of State and Territorial Sovereignty, there is a very good Regional Legal Source in the Beirut {University Private Site for Legal Research and Studies‎ > ‎My International Law Studies [In English]} by 
*Dr. Walid Abdulrahim Professor of Law*.

That limited Perspective on Sovereignty is quite an adolescent view

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The islamic Tire Burning Riots ended early for these knuckleheads.
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/amp.heraldsun.com/news/nation-world/world/article208901044.html
> 
> *4 Islamic Jihad members killed in Gaza 'work accident' blast*
> 
> 
> 
> Dead link.
Click to expand...


This should brighten your day.

Report: 80% of Palestinians killed in Gaza border crisis were 'terrorists'

*REPORT: 80% OF PALESTINIANS KILLED IN GAZA BORDER CRISIS WERE 'TERRORISTS'*


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> You do not read very well.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This idea that the Gaza Strip was under the sovereignty of some failed/funk quasi-Arab-Palestinian organization or government is simply not true; no matter how much the Hostile Arab Palestinian campaign would like it to be.
> 
> 
> 
> Sovereignty belongs to the people. A government or state is not required.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We are talking about two different kinds of Sovereignty.
> 
> I will not waste my time anymore trying to educate you.  If you want to understand the International understanding of State and Territorial Sovereignty, there is a very good Regional Legal Source in the Beirut {University Private Site for Legal Research and Studies‎ > ‎My International Law Studies [In English]} by
> *Dr. Walid Abdulrahim Professor of Law*.
> 
> That limited Perspective on Sovereignty is quite an adolescent view
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Good read, thanks.

6. State Territory and Territorial Sovereignty - Dr. Walid Abdulrahim   Professor of Law


----------



## Votto

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'



They are massing at the border?

I had no idea that they were Catholic


----------



## Billy_Kinetta

Votto said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are massing at the border?
Click to expand...


Yeah, a friggin' month ago.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The islamic Tire Burning Riots ended early for these knuckleheads.
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/amp.heraldsun.com/news/nation-world/world/article208901044.html
> 
> *4 Islamic Jihad members killed in Gaza 'work accident' blast*
> 
> 
> 
> Dead link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This should brighten your day.
> 
> Report: 80% of Palestinians killed in Gaza border crisis were 'terrorists'
> 
> *REPORT: 80% OF PALESTINIANS KILLED IN GAZA BORDER CRISIS WERE 'TERRORISTS'*
Click to expand...

So, who says?

Still unarmed civilians.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Votto said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are massing at the border?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, a friggin' month ago.
Click to expand...

Actually, the poster was referring to the correct word for it.

To amass, at the border.  Amassing.

If you can correct it on the title, that would be plus. 
Otherwise do not bother, everyone knows what you meant and it does not make one bit of difference.  

Thanks for the thread.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The islamic Tire Burning Riots ended early for these knuckleheads.
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/amp.heraldsun.com/news/nation-world/world/article208901044.html
> 
> *4 Islamic Jihad members killed in Gaza 'work accident' blast*
> 
> 
> 
> Dead link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This should brighten your day.
> 
> Report: 80% of Palestinians killed in Gaza border crisis were 'terrorists'
> 
> *REPORT: 80% OF PALESTINIANS KILLED IN GAZA BORDER CRISIS WERE 'TERRORISTS'*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, who says?
> 
> Still unarmed civilians.
Click to expand...


Unarmed Islamic terrorists. You and your Pom Poms are a hoot.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The islamic Tire Burning Riots ended early for these knuckleheads.
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/amp.heraldsun.com/news/nation-world/world/article208901044.html
> 
> *4 Islamic Jihad members killed in Gaza 'work accident' blast*
> 
> 
> 
> Dead link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This should brighten your day.
> 
> Report: 80% of Palestinians killed in Gaza border crisis were 'terrorists'
> 
> *REPORT: 80% OF PALESTINIANS KILLED IN GAZA BORDER CRISIS WERE 'TERRORISTS'*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, who says?
> 
> Still unarmed civilians.
Click to expand...

[You do need to stop dreaming.]




Gaza's Hamas terrorist rulers released these images of members of its military wing who it acknowledged were among 16 Gazans it said were killed by Israeli fire during clashes along the security fence on Friday, March 30, 2018. (Hamas)

Hamas admits 5 of its gunmen among 16 Gazans killed in Friday’s border violence


----------



## Hollie

Hamas creating dead Arabs-Moslems.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Great Tire Burning Riots.


----------



## Billy_Kinetta

Sixties Fan said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Votto said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are massing at the border?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, a friggin' month ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, the poster was referring to the correct word for it.
> 
> To amass, at the border.  Amassing.
> 
> If you can correct it on the title, that would be plus.
> Otherwise do not bother, everyone knows what you meant and it does not make one bit of difference.
> 
> Thanks for the thread.
Click to expand...


That's what editors are for.


----------



## Hollie

I thought this was pretty funny.

*Metaphor for Middle East history: Palestinian rioters roll burning tires at Israelis, set own factory on fire*

Metaphor for Middle East history: Palestinian rioters roll burning tires at Israelis, set own factory on fire

Palestinian rioters rolled a flaming tire at Israeli soldiers.
Tire changed direction, and entered a Palestinian plastic factory.
The factory burned down.

Israeli firefighters assisted in extinguishing the fire.


----------



## Shusha

Hollie said:


> I thought this was pretty funny.
> 
> *Metaphor for Middle East history: Palestinian rioters roll burning tires at Israelis, set own factory on fire*
> 
> Metaphor for Middle East history: Palestinian rioters roll burning tires at Israelis, set own factory on fire
> 
> Palestinian rioters rolled a flaming tire at Israeli soldiers.
> Tire changed direction, and entered a Palestinian plastic factory.
> The factory burned down.
> 
> Israeli firefighters assisted in extinguishing the fire.




And, of course, six months from now our various TP posters will claim that Israel is destroying the economy of Gaza by burning down businesses.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Around 15 people can be seen running and celebrating, with one brandishing butcher's knife, before being chased back into Strip on Friday; new breach occurs Saturday

(full article online)

Video shows Gazans breaching border, entering Israeli territory unchallenged


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel announced from the beginning that it would not permit violation of its border or attacks on its forces or installations. I heard those announcements repeatedly, on radio and TV, by the IDF Chief of Staff and by the politicians who lead the government of Israel. The Israel Air Force dropped thousands of leaflets over Gaza to that effect, as well. Nothing in Israel’s record could have led anyone to expect anything but this policy.

But of course, Hamas knew and knows all this. A controlled, staged conflict between desperate civilians in Gaza and the Goliath, Israel, was and is the point, since obviously, Gazans will not be “returning” to Israel via marches or any other means. It was a perfect set up for Israel to be portrayed, as indeed, has played out, as needlessly, wantonly, violent, leading to UN resolutions and hoped for commissions of inquiry, etc. Certainly, a lot of bad press for Israel.  But not enough provocation for all-out war, which a weakened Hamas does not wish at the present.

In any crime, investigators since the Romans have asked, “cui bono,” or “whose benefit,” as an obvious starting point. In the case of the “march of return,” which side benefits from scenes of violent clashes, casualties, fatalities? Israel’s military is many things, including fallible; but patently stupid, not. The standing orders were clear: no one penetrates the border; anyone approaching it in the context of the announced goal of penetrating it; anyone hurling projectiles at IDF soldiers, let alone Molotov cocktails, will be stopped, by tear gas if possible; by bullets if necessary. In the climate of cooked media reporting about Israel, Israel has no benefit, only harm, in Gazan casualties, let alone deaths. Hamas, on the other hand, glories in every such instance.

And hurls its valiant action and heroic leadership (not that Hamas’ leaders are anywhere to be found at the border fence), in the face of the PA.

As the weeks have passed, the silence from the PA and in the West Bank about this “march of return” has been deafening. But silence speaks. This is a Hamas show, manufactured in large part as a tactic against the PA since the collapse of the latest efforts at Palestinian political unity and the ensuing war the PA has declared against Gaza, cutting off support for electricity, water, to the Strip’s, residents– to fellow Palestinians. The war of words between PA President Abbas and Hamas’ leadership has been as incendiary as the burning projectiles hurled at Israeli soldiers and flown by kite over the border.

(full article online)

Gaza and us


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I thought this was pretty funny.
> 
> *Metaphor for Middle East history: Palestinian rioters roll burning tires at Israelis, set own factory on fire*
> 
> Metaphor for Middle East history: Palestinian rioters roll burning tires at Israelis, set own factory on fire
> 
> Palestinian rioters rolled a flaming tire at Israeli soldiers.
> Tire changed direction, and entered a Palestinian plastic factory.
> The factory burned down.
> 
> Israeli firefighters assisted in extinguishing the fire.


Seems unlikely since Israel has already bulldozed everything close to the border.


----------



## Billo_Really

P F Tinmore said:


> Seems unlikely since Israel has already bulldozed everything close to the border.


It should be *noted*...

_According to the New York Times, the Israeli military response to these protests has resulted in 37 deaths (4 people under the age of 18) and over 3000 wounded.

Over 1000 of the wounded were hit by live ammunition, 300 by rubber-coated bullets, and 1000 by large doses of tear gas. Among those targeted were journalists (wearing identifying vests)—1 was killed and at least 6 have been wounded, and medics. Those with lethal wounds were shot in the chest, the back, and abdomen. Many also had been shot in the legs, pelvis, and hands.  *There have been no Israeli injuries.
*_​Israel responded with deadly force to peaceful protests.  And the people defending their response, are just sick, sick people.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought this was pretty funny.
> 
> *Metaphor for Middle East history: Palestinian rioters roll burning tires at Israelis, set own factory on fire*
> 
> Metaphor for Middle East history: Palestinian rioters roll burning tires at Israelis, set own factory on fire
> 
> Palestinian rioters rolled a flaming tire at Israeli soldiers.
> Tire changed direction, and entered a Palestinian plastic factory.
> The factory burned down.
> 
> Israeli firefighters assisted in extinguishing the fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems unlikely since Israel has already bulldozed everything close to the border.
Click to expand...


Seems like you’re just desperate to make excuses for an islamic societal milieu defined by misfit behavior.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Israel announced from the beginning that it would not permit violation of its border or attacks on its forces or installations. I heard those announcements repeatedly, on radio and TV, by the IDF Chief of Staff and by the politicians who lead the government of Israel. The Israel Air Force dropped thousands of leaflets over Gaza to that effect, as well. Nothing in Israel’s record could have led anyone to expect anything but this policy.
> 
> But of course, Hamas knew and knows all this. A controlled, staged conflict between desperate civilians in Gaza and the Goliath, Israel, was and is the point, since obviously, Gazans will not be “returning” to Israel via marches or any other means. It was a perfect set up for Israel to be portrayed, as indeed, has played out, as needlessly, wantonly, violent, leading to UN resolutions and hoped for commissions of inquiry, etc. Certainly, a lot of bad press for Israel.  But not enough provocation for all-out war, which a weakened Hamas does not wish at the present.
> 
> In any crime, investigators since the Romans have asked, “cui bono,” or “whose benefit,” as an obvious starting point. In the case of the “march of return,” which side benefits from scenes of violent clashes, casualties, fatalities? Israel’s military is many things, including fallible; but patently stupid, not. The standing orders were clear: no one penetrates the border; anyone approaching it in the context of the announced goal of penetrating it; anyone hurling projectiles at IDF soldiers, let alone Molotov cocktails, will be stopped, by tear gas if possible; by bullets if necessary. In the climate of cooked media reporting about Israel, Israel has no benefit, only harm, in Gazan casualties, let alone deaths. Hamas, on the other hand, glories in every such instance.
> 
> And hurls its valiant action and heroic leadership (not that Hamas’ leaders are anywhere to be found at the border fence), in the face of the PA.
> 
> As the weeks have passed, the silence from the PA and in the West Bank about this “march of return” has been deafening. But silence speaks. This is a Hamas show, manufactured in large part as a tactic against the PA since the collapse of the latest efforts at Palestinian political unity and the ensuing war the PA has declared against Gaza, cutting off support for electricity, water, to the Strip’s, residents– to fellow Palestinians. The war of words between PA President Abbas and Hamas’ leadership has been as incendiary as the burning projectiles hurled at Israeli soldiers and flown by kite over the border.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gaza and us


You're basically saying, it is okay for you to tell your neighbor, you will shoot him dead if he walks to the edge of "his" front lawn.  And if he does and you do shoot him while he is standing on his own property, you think you had a right to do that?


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Seems like you’re just desperate to make excuses for an islamic societal milieu defined by misfit behavior.


You're constantly trying to hijack the thread topic and make it about the other poster.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seems unlikely since Israel has already bulldozed everything close to the border.
> 
> 
> 
> It should be *noted*...
> 
> _According to the New York Times, the Israeli military response to these protests has resulted in 37 deaths (4 people under the age of 18) and over 3000 wounded.
> 
> Over 1000 of the wounded were hit by live ammunition, 300 by rubber-coated bullets, and 1000 by large doses of tear gas. Among those targeted were journalists (wearing identifying vests)—1 was killed and at least 6 have been wounded, and medics. Those with lethal wounds were shot in the chest, the back, and abdomen. Many also had been shot in the legs, pelvis, and hands.  *There have been no Israeli injuries.
> *_​Israel responded with deadly force to peaceful protests.  And the people defending their response, are just sick, sick people.
Click to expand...


_Peaceful Protests_™️

Do you realize you represent yourself as rather, how shall we say, ignorant and an apologist for Islamist terrorists with such nonsense?


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like you’re just desperate to make excuses for an islamic societal milieu defined by misfit behavior.
> 
> 
> 
> You're constantly trying to hijack the thread topic and make it about the other poster.
Click to expand...


This thread is not about your hurt feelings.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> _Peaceful Protests_™️
> 
> Do you realize you represent yourself as rather, how shall we say, ignorant and an apologist for Islamist terrorists with such nonsense?


I'm not the topic of the thread.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> This thread is not about your hurt feelings.


Your Honor, the prosecution rests.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel announced from the beginning that it would not permit violation of its border or attacks on its forces or installations. I heard those announcements repeatedly, on radio and TV, by the IDF Chief of Staff and by the politicians who lead the government of Israel. The Israel Air Force dropped thousands of leaflets over Gaza to that effect, as well. Nothing in Israel’s record could have led anyone to expect anything but this policy.
> 
> But of course, Hamas knew and knows all this. A controlled, staged conflict between desperate civilians in Gaza and the Goliath, Israel, was and is the point, since obviously, Gazans will not be “returning” to Israel via marches or any other means. It was a perfect set up for Israel to be portrayed, as indeed, has played out, as needlessly, wantonly, violent, leading to UN resolutions and hoped for commissions of inquiry, etc. Certainly, a lot of bad press for Israel.  But not enough provocation for all-out war, which a weakened Hamas does not wish at the present.
> 
> In any crime, investigators since the Romans have asked, “cui bono,” or “whose benefit,” as an obvious starting point. In the case of the “march of return,” which side benefits from scenes of violent clashes, casualties, fatalities? Israel’s military is many things, including fallible; but patently stupid, not. The standing orders were clear: no one penetrates the border; anyone approaching it in the context of the announced goal of penetrating it; anyone hurling projectiles at IDF soldiers, let alone Molotov cocktails, will be stopped, by tear gas if possible; by bullets if necessary. In the climate of cooked media reporting about Israel, Israel has no benefit, only harm, in Gazan casualties, let alone deaths. Hamas, on the other hand, glories in every such instance.
> 
> And hurls its valiant action and heroic leadership (not that Hamas’ leaders are anywhere to be found at the border fence), in the face of the PA.
> 
> As the weeks have passed, the silence from the PA and in the West Bank about this “march of return” has been deafening. But silence speaks. This is a Hamas show, manufactured in large part as a tactic against the PA since the collapse of the latest efforts at Palestinian political unity and the ensuing war the PA has declared against Gaza, cutting off support for electricity, water, to the Strip’s, residents– to fellow Palestinians. The war of words between PA President Abbas and Hamas’ leadership has been as incendiary as the burning projectiles hurled at Israeli soldiers and flown by kite over the border.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gaza and us
> 
> 
> 
> You're basically saying, it is okay for you to tell your neighbor, you will shoot him dead if he walks to the edge of "his" front lawn.  And if he does and you do shoot him while he is standing on his own property, you think you had a right to do that?
Click to expand...

The Egyptians seem to think so, too.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> The Egyptians seem to think so, too.


So you do think you can shoot people on their own property?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Egyptians seem to think so, too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you do think you can shoot people on their own property?
Click to expand...

ANY country WILL and DOES shoot people who attempt to invade their country from outside its borders.

These are not "neighbors" having issues.

Your word game is very cute, but it will get you nowhere.

These are not two neighbors who live in houses next to each other.

These is the issue of one terrorist organization trying to invade the borders of a sovereign country it has sworn to destroy, as it is written in its charters.

HUGE difference you simply do not care about.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> ANY country WILL and DOES shoot people who attempt to invade their country from outside its borders.
> 
> These are not "neighbors" having issues.
> 
> Your word game is very cute, but it will get you nowhere.
> 
> These are not two neighbors who live in houses next to each other.
> 
> These is the issue of one terrorist organization trying to invade the borders of a sovereign country it has sworn to destroy, as it is written in its charters.
> 
> HUGE difference you simply do not care about.


There was no invasion and they have a right to protest the inhuman conditions Israel is forcing on them.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> ANY country WILL and DOES shoot people who attempt to invade their country from outside its borders.
> 
> These are not "neighbors" having issues.
> 
> Your word game is very cute, but it will get you nowhere.
> 
> These are not two neighbors who live in houses next to each other.
> 
> These is the issue of one terrorist organization trying to invade the borders of a sovereign country it has sworn to destroy, as it is written in its charters.
> 
> HUGE difference you simply do not care about.
> 
> 
> 
> There was no invasion and they have a right to protest the inhuman conditions Israel is forcing on them.
Click to expand...

You are really Billo O'Reilly.  From Fake News.  The best news agency in the world.

Great to know you Billo.  Keep up the good job, if you still have that job, as real Bill lost his some time ago.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> ANY country WILL and DOES shoot people who attempt to invade their country from outside its borders.
> 
> These are not "neighbors" having issues.
> 
> Your word game is very cute, but it will get you nowhere.
> 
> These are not two neighbors who live in houses next to each other.
> 
> These is the issue of one terrorist organization trying to invade the borders of a sovereign country it has sworn to destroy, as it is written in its charters.
> 
> HUGE difference you simply do not care about.
> 
> 
> 
> There was no invasion and they have a right to protest the inhuman conditions Israel is forcing on them.
Click to expand...


Who, exactly, is forcing the various Islamic terrorist franchises to devote their energies and welfare fraud money toward actions contrary to building a workable society?

It is Arabs-Moslems who are “forcing” Arabs-Moslems to live under the environment of incompetence and ineptitude they create.


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Islamics. Never failing to fail.

Twitter

Breaking news: Palestinian rioters are now sacking the ONLY humanitarian crossing, through which Israel provides food, fuel and all other goods to the people in Gaza. Peaceful protest?

1:19 PM - May 4, 2018


----------



## Sixties Fan

Watch: IDF releases footage showing how Hamas uses children as cannon fodder during the recent border riots.

IDF: This is how the terrorist use children as human shields


----------



## Sixties Fan

In new videos, IDF accuses Gazans of faking injury, taking small kids to riots


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> You are really Billo O'Reilly.  From Fake News.  The best news agency in the world.
> 
> Great to know you Billo.  Keep up the good job, if you still have that job, as real Bill lost his some time ago.


I'm the antithesis to Bill O'Reilly.  And you're right, Fox News is a joke!


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gaza: Palestinians Hit by Israeli Bullets as Mass Protests Continue*

In the Gaza Strip, Israeli forces opened fire with tear gas and live bullets today, as Palestinians continued mass protests against Israel’s occupation. The Haaretz newspaper reports at least three people were injured by live fire.

Medics say 19-year-old Anas Abu Aser is the 49th Palestinian killed by Israeli fire since mass protests began in late March. At least two journalists are among the dead; more than a thousand protesters have been injured. Palestinian medics told Al Jazeera at least 24 people have had their limbs amputated after they were hit by a new kind of ammunition—so-called butterfly bullets, which explode on impact, shattering bones and shredding internal organs.

*Gaza: Palestinians Hit by Israeli Bullets as Mass Protests Continue | Democracy Now!*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Gaza: Palestinians Hit by Israeli Bullets as Mass Protests Continue*
> 
> In the Gaza Strip, Israeli forces opened fire with tear gas and live bullets today, as Palestinians continued mass protests against Israel’s occupation. The Haaretz newspaper reports at least three people were injured by live fire.
> 
> Medics say 19-year-old Anas Abu Aser is the 49th Palestinian killed by Israeli fire since mass protests began in late March. At least two journalists are among the dead; more than a thousand protesters have been injured. Palestinian medics told Al Jazeera at least 24 people have had their limbs amputated after they were hit by a new kind of ammunition—so-called butterfly bullets, which explode on impact, shattering bones and shredding internal organs.
> 
> *Gaza: Palestinians Hit by Israeli Bullets as Mass Protests Continue | Democracy Now!*



Such nonsense about "butterfly bullets" is not surprising coming from an internet tabloid.


----------



## Hollie

WATCH: Hamas fakes injuries, uses children in Gaza border protests

IDF video from Gaza border protests shows supposed casualty stand upright under cover of smoke, multiple children present, ushered by adults to shield them from IDF fire; Hamas 'creating false pretense, misleading international public opinion,' army accuses.
Yoav ZItun|Published:  05.05.18 , 22:36

WATCH: Hamas fakes injuries, uses children in Gaza border protests

The IDF Spokesperson's Unit published a video Saturday evening showing Hamas faking injuries and using women and children to mask its terror activities during the weekly border protests, intentionally making it harder for the IDF to retaliate while "creating a false pretense and misleading international public opinion."


----------



## Sixties Fan

Meanwhile, no one will pay attention to what is happening on the Gaza Strip’s other border with Egypt, which has been closed for most of the past 10 years.

There are, of course, no demonstrations planned along Gaza’s border with Egypt to protest the continued closure of Gaza’s better-known border crossing, Rafah — its crossing to Egypt.

The Palestinians do not feel comfortable talking about Egypt’s blockade of the Gaza Strip. They prefer to turn a blind eye to the severe travel restrictions imposed by Egypt on the residents of Gaza and instead put all the blame on Israel. Currently, Hamas leaders cannot leave the Gaza Strip without Egypt’s permission. They are afraid to embarrass the Egyptians lest they be banned from leaving the Gaza Strip completely.

Some Palestinians have argued that the “March of Return” is also aimed at ending the blockade imposed on the Gaza Strip since Hamas’s violent takeover of the coastal enclave in the summer of 2007.

Despite the blockade, however, Israel has kept its border crossing with the Gaza Strip open, except for times when Hamas and other armed groups carry out terror attacks against Israelis. Even then, Israel closes the border crossings only for a few hours or days.

The civilian and commercial border crossings have also been open to some Palestinians and foreign nationals who enter and leave the Gaza Strip on an almost daily basis.

All eyes, then, are set on the border between the Gaza Strip and Israel — but what about Gaza’s other border crossing, the one with Egypt?

(full article online)

Palestinians: The Real Gaza Blockade


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Meanwhile, no one will pay attention to what is happening on the Gaza Strip’s other border with Egypt, which has been closed for most of the past 10 years.
> 
> There are, of course, no demonstrations planned along Gaza’s border with Egypt to protest the continued closure of Gaza’s better-known border crossing, Rafah — its crossing to Egypt.
> 
> The Palestinians do not feel comfortable talking about Egypt’s blockade of the Gaza Strip. They prefer to turn a blind eye to the severe travel restrictions imposed by Egypt on the residents of Gaza and instead put all the blame on Israel. Currently, Hamas leaders cannot leave the Gaza Strip without Egypt’s permission. They are afraid to embarrass the Egyptians lest they be banned from leaving the Gaza Strip completely.
> 
> Some Palestinians have argued that the “March of Return” is also aimed at ending the blockade imposed on the Gaza Strip since Hamas’s violent takeover of the coastal enclave in the summer of 2007.
> 
> Despite the blockade, however, Israel has kept its border crossing with the Gaza Strip open, except for times when Hamas and other armed groups carry out terror attacks against Israelis. Even then, Israel closes the border crossings only for a few hours or days.
> 
> The civilian and commercial border crossings have also been open to some Palestinians and foreign nationals who enter and leave the Gaza Strip on an almost daily basis.
> 
> All eyes, then, are set on the border between the Gaza Strip and Israel — but what about Gaza’s other border crossing, the one with Egypt?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: The Real Gaza Blockade


Egypt gets its marching orders and a couple billion a year from the US.


Sixties Fan said:


> since Hamas’s violent takeover of the coastal enclave in the summer of 2007.


Hamas was the elected government in Palestine.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, no one will pay attention to what is happening on the Gaza Strip’s other border with Egypt, which has been closed for most of the past 10 years.
> 
> There are, of course, no demonstrations planned along Gaza’s border with Egypt to protest the continued closure of Gaza’s better-known border crossing, Rafah — its crossing to Egypt.
> 
> The Palestinians do not feel comfortable talking about Egypt’s blockade of the Gaza Strip. They prefer to turn a blind eye to the severe travel restrictions imposed by Egypt on the residents of Gaza and instead put all the blame on Israel. Currently, Hamas leaders cannot leave the Gaza Strip without Egypt’s permission. They are afraid to embarrass the Egyptians lest they be banned from leaving the Gaza Strip completely.
> 
> Some Palestinians have argued that the “March of Return” is also aimed at ending the blockade imposed on the Gaza Strip since Hamas’s violent takeover of the coastal enclave in the summer of 2007.
> 
> Despite the blockade, however, Israel has kept its border crossing with the Gaza Strip open, except for times when Hamas and other armed groups carry out terror attacks against Israelis. Even then, Israel closes the border crossings only for a few hours or days.
> 
> The civilian and commercial border crossings have also been open to some Palestinians and foreign nationals who enter and leave the Gaza Strip on an almost daily basis.
> 
> All eyes, then, are set on the border between the Gaza Strip and Israel — but what about Gaza’s other border crossing, the one with Egypt?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: The Real Gaza Blockade
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt gets its marching orders and a couple billion a year from the US.
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> since Hamas’s violent takeover of the coastal enclave in the summer of 2007.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas was the elected government in Palestine.
Click to expand...

Hamas' own Pom Pom boy.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The IDF bombed a Hamas position in Gaza on Sunday morning that was responsible for launching burning kites into Israel.

"We will continue to act against terrorist acts above and below ground, and we see the Hamas terrorist organization as solely responsible for what is going on in and out of the Gaza Strip," said the IDF.

The bombing comes as the military attempts to contend with the phenomenon of Gazans launching burning kites into Israel. In recent weeks, during the violent riots by Gazans along the border, the rioters have flown *kites with firebombs* attached to them into Israeli territory with the purpose of burning down fields belonging to Israeli farmers.


(full article and video online)

IDF bombs Hamas position that launched burning kites into Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

The New York Times (NYT) and other major papers could benefit readers by taking an example from the British medical journal, The Lancet. Let us look at the difference between the way the NYT and Lancet handled opinion pieces written about the March of Return in Gaza.  These protests began on 30 March and will continue until 14 May.

(full article online)

This is what the New York Times should be doing! - Israel Diaries


----------



## Sixties Fan

When #Hamas sent rioters to sack the Kerem Shalom humanitarian crossing, this is what they jeopardize.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> When #Hamas sent rioters to sack the Kerem Shalom humanitarian crossing, this is what they jeopardize.


Where's the link proving your cartoon is true?


----------



## Sixties Fan

YouTube Censors MEMRI, Removes – For 'Harmful Or Dangerous Content' – MEMRI TV Translated Clip Exposing Statements By Anti-Semitic Gaza Religious Scholar At 'Return March'*: 'The Sword Of Jihad... Is Brandished' Against The Jews; 'I Call Upon Every Muslim: Do Not... Let Those Jews Spread Corruption... You Must Carry Out Glorious Deeds Against Them'*

(full article online)

YouTube Censors MEMRI, Removes – For 'Harmful Or Dangerous Content' – MEMRI TV Translated Clip Exposing Statements By Anti-Semitic Gaza Religious Scholar At 'Return March': 'The Sword Of Jihad... Is Brandished' Against The Jews; 'I Call Upon Every Muslim: Do Not... Let Those Jews Spread Corruption... You Must Carry Out Glorious Deeds Against Them'


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> YouTube Censors MEMRI, Removes – For 'Harmful Or Dangerous Content' – MEMRI TV Translated Clip Exposing Statements By Anti-Semitic Gaza Religious Scholar At 'Return March'*: 'The Sword Of Jihad... Is Brandished' Against The Jews; 'I Call Upon Every Muslim: Do Not... Let Those Jews Spread Corruption... You Must Carry Out Glorious Deeds Against Them'*
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> YouTube Censors MEMRI, Removes – For 'Harmful Or Dangerous Content' – MEMRI TV Translated Clip Exposing Statements By Anti-Semitic Gaza Religious Scholar At 'Return March': 'The Sword Of Jihad... Is Brandished' Against The Jews; 'I Call Upon Every Muslim: Do Not... Let Those Jews Spread Corruption... You Must Carry Out Glorious Deeds Against Them'


Do you have a point?


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> The New York Times (NYT) and other major papers could benefit readers by taking an example from the British medical journal, The Lancet. Let us look at the difference between the way the NYT and Lancet handled opinion pieces written about the March of Return in Gaza.  These protests began on 30 March and will continue until 14 May.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> This is what the New York Times should be doing! - Israel Diaries


You seem to only be interested in 1/2 of the Lancet story.  Your only interest is the media outlet posting an opposing view.  You have no interest in dealing with the initial story, which is very critical of Israel.  Anything critical of Israel, you look the other way.


----------



## Hollie

More of the loveliness that defines the Arab-Moslem Death Cult. The use, abuse and exploitation of children as cheap propaganda tools. 


MEMRI TV Clip No. 6546: Young Palestinian Girl: I Am Not Afraid, Martyrs In The Millions Are Marching To Jerusalem – Scenes From Gaza 'Return March'

MEMRI TV Clips Of Gaza 'Return March'

To view this clip on MEMRI TV, click here.

Asked by a reporter if she wasn't afraid to come to the Return March rally, a young Palestinian girl responded: "What have I got to be afraid of? Their filthy weapons?" She said: "Let's see the occupation army come here and face me without its weapons!" and chanted: "Martyrs in the millions are marching to Jerusalem," as people around cheered and cried "Allah Akbar." The footage, filmed by Ihab Omar Fasfous, was posted on the Internet on April 26.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> When #Hamas sent rioters to sack the Kerem Shalom humanitarian crossing, this is what they jeopardize.


What were the exports?


----------



## Sixties Fan

A military spokesperson clarified that this referred to an effort to damage the security infrastructure along the Gaza border or potentially attack IDF soldiers.






An axe and wirecutters, which were in the possession of three Palestinian men who were shot dead as they entered Israeli territory from the Gaza Strip on May 6, 2018. (Israel Defense Forces)
Israeli soldiers who were called to the scene opened fire on the men, killing three of them.

The military refused to comment on what happened to the fourth man, if he was captured or fled back into the Gaza Strip.

The army later released photographs showing the blood-covered axe and other gear that had been in the suspects’ possession.

The IDF also would not comment on what was done with the bodies of the three suspects. In previous cases, the army has taken into its custody the bodies of terrorists who were killed after they infiltrated into Israeli territory.

(full article online)

IDF says it killed three terrorists infiltrating from Gaza


----------



## Hollie

The best way to identify the Islamist Death Cult for what it is; simply allow the Death Cultists to rattle on with their Death Cult script.




MEMRI TV Clip No. 6537: Gaza Scholar Morshid At 'Return March': Brandish Sword Of Jihad, Fight The Jews; 'The Prophet's Treatment Of Jews... [Was] Violence And Force... This Is What All Muslims Should Know'

MEMRI TV Clips Of Gaza 'Return March'

To view this clip on MEMRI TV, click here.

Standing at the "Return March" venue, Gaza scholar Khaled Hany Morshid said that "one of the greatest duties, and one of the best forms of worship in our day, is to fight those Jews." Calling upon all Muslims to "carry out glorious deeds" against them, he said that "the Jews will never stop this enmity unless the sword of Jihad for the sake of Allah is brandished, and they are made an example of, as was done by the Prophet Muhammad." Morshid posted the video of himself on his social media channels on April 14.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Supreme National Council of the March of the Return has announced the start of preparations for this coming Friday’s march, which will be a general rehearsal for a large-scale march on May 14 along the border with Israel.

"We are calling on all Palestinians to turn the coming Friday into a date for preparations for the May 14 march with the participation of millions," it said. The May 14 march coincides with the opening of the U.S. Embassy in Jerusalem and is also Nakba Day, meaning the day of the catastrophe, which is marked by Arabs on the date on which the State of Israel was founded in 1948.

The statement emphasized that the large-scale march is intended to convey a firm message to U.S. President Donald Trump that his planned “deal of the century” for peace between Israel and the Palestinian Authority would not pass, but that "we (the Palestinians) will trample it by the feet of the millions who return to the homeland."

The Council also called on the Arab and Islamic peoples and on liberals around the world to mobilize their forces to assist the Palestinian people in implementing their goals, primarily the liberation of the land and holy places and the end of the siege.

(full article online)

Arabs to hold 'general rehearsal' for Nakba Day


----------



## TheParser

*IMHO:
*
Those Palestinians should me massing  instead  at the headquarters of their leaders

They should be demanding real democracy instead of self-appointed leaders.

They should be demanding honesty and the end to corruption.

They should be demanding that their leaders cooperate with the Israelis in order to improve the economy.

They should stop sacrificing innocent young lives by challenging a superior military power like Israel.

They should remember that Israel is NOT like  the United States: *Israel actually  protects its borders*.


----------



## José

Of course Israel is not like the US.

21th century America does not protect its borders from its own native population, let alone, wage war against them.

If anything 21th century America inverted the discrimation completely... she now actively discriminates the former dominant ethnic group in order to compensate the natives for their historical losses (affirmative action).

Any similarity to a country like Israel that doesn't even give the most basic, primary compensation (full citizenship and civil rights) to most of its native population is mere coincidence.


----------



## member

José said:


> Of course Israel is not like the US.
> 
> 21th century America does not protect its borders from its own native population, let alone, wage war against them.
> 
> If anything 21th century America inverted the discrimation completely... she now actively discriminates the former dominant ethnic group in order to compensate the natives for their historical losses (affirmative action).
> 
> Any similarity to a country like Israel that doesn't even give the most basic, primary compensation (full citizenship and civil rights) to most of its native population is mere coincidence.



 _*"wage war against.....Any similarity to a country like Israel"*_

at least you recognize it as country.

if only the palestinians--who have "Terrorists" as their government-- would:  stop being terrorists.

how 'bout that ?  open up an sweet-shop or VAPE shop or.....how about a lingerie shop ! LoL.

what's all that $$$$ being used for when countries wire it to you?


----------



## José

The US, Iran, the European Union give money to Palestinians and they gladly accept, member.

But they are not in anyone's pocket...

With or without the financial help from America, the Ayatolahs, etc, etc... they will continue to pursue their agenda of dismantling the jewish racial dictatorship.


----------



## member

José said:


> The US, Iran, the European Union give money to Palestinians and they gladly accept, member.
> 
> But they are not in anyone's pocket...
> 
> With or without the financial help from America, the Ayatolahs, etc, etc... they will continue to pursue their agenda of dismantling the jewish racial dictatorship.



right.  the u.s. sends hamass, i mean the "palestinians" money.

makes me sick.  still _ain't_ comfortable with this political correctness.  'sending $$ to terrorists under the guise of...charity.

   hamass should get  gotz.


----------



## admonit

José said:


> With or without the financial help from America, the Ayatolahs, etc, etc... they will continue to pursue their agenda of dismantling the jewish racial dictatorship.


And they will continue to whine after responses of the Jewish state.


----------



## member

José said:


> The US, Iran, the European Union give money to Palestinians and they gladly accept, member.
> 
> But they are not in anyone's pocket...
> 
> With or without the financial help from America, the Ayatolahs, etc, etc... they will continue to pursue their agenda of dismantling the jewish racial dictatorship.



i forgot joanswirl:

*"Iran"*

just another backward, cro-magmum, _cover your face_ HELL hole country on ear_Fff.  _but they educated themselves enough to...build weapons of mass destruction and are "good to go" with plenty of explosives and things of that nature.

 *cover your face in black drapes---*but....we're good  on our nuclear game.


no worries...nothing wrong w/that picture...


----------



## Hollie

While Hamas claims “credit” for the Tire Burning Riots that have caused the deaths and injuries to their vacant-minded minions, I think it should be pointed out that Hamas is the cancerous growth of Muslim Brotherhood.

Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the other Islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza are not monolithic organizations or apparatus, but are a philosophy which is shared under the umbrella of an all-consuming Cult.

What we’re seeing at the Tire Burning Riots is the implementation of the Cult ideology which, while existing since Islam's invention, was crystallized in modern times in the form of the simple motto of the Muslim Brotherhood:
Allah is our objective.
The Prophet is our leader.
Qur'an is our law.
Jihad is our way.
Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope.



MEMRI TV Clip No. 6547: At Gaza Rally Held By 'Tire-Burning Unit,' Demonstrators Brandish Wire-Cutters, Chant Antisemitic Slogans – Scenes From Gaza 'Return March'

MEMRI TV Clips Of Gaza 'Return March'

To view this clip on MEMRI TV, click here.

In footage from a rally held in Gaza, posted on the Internet on April 28, demonstrators shout slogans such as "Oh Jews, you women" and "Khaybar, Khaybar, oh Jews, Muhammad's army has started to return!" The banner held by the protesters identifies them as the "Tire-Burning Unit." Some of the protesters can be seen brandishing wire-cutters, used in recent days by Palestinians trying to breach Israel's border fence.


----------



## Hollie

More Islamist family values. 

My nominee for _Arab-Moslem Death Cult Dad of the Year.

_
*
MEMRI TV Clip No. 6517: Palestinian Authority TV Reports On Wounded Child Participating In Gaza Return March: We Love President Mahmoud Abbas*

*MEMRI TV Clips Of Gaza 'Return March'

To view this clip on MEMRI TV, click here.*

The Palestinian Authority's official TV channel reported on a boy, Abd Al-Hamid Qadouha, preparing to join the Gaza "Return March" despite having been wounded by a tear gas canister. Abd Al-Hamid donned combat gear, carried a Palestinian flag, and wore a picture of President Mahmoud Abbas on his chest, and he, his aunt, and his father pledged support for Abbas. "He is our president, and we love him. I wear his picture because he protects us and our country," explained Abd Al-Hamid. The report aired on April 9.

*



*

*



*





I suppose this _Arab-Moslem Death Cult Dad of the Year nominee _is hoping for another check (double dipping), from Hamas which is paying dead or wounded gee-had wannabes on a graduated scale depending on their injuries and commitment to the gee-had.


----------



## Sixties Fan

PEACEFUL PROTEST? ‘The Jews’ Hearts Will Burn,’ Threaten Gaza Rioters


----------



## Sixties Fan

There’s one thing the media almost never mentions about Gaza. And that is that Hamas, the terrorist organization that actually runs Gaza, seeks the total destruction of Israel.

They do not merely call out to kill all Israelis, but they call out to kill all Jews. Those aren’t my words. Those are the precise words of the Hamas’ leadership.

Just the other day, Yahya Sinwar, a Hamas leader, said, and I’ll site the original Arabic.  “Sanaqtala’a al hudud wa sanaqtala’a qulubhum.” In English – “We will tear down the border and we will tear out their hearts.” He is talking about ordinary Israeli families, mothers, fathers and children picnicking in parks just like this one.

(full article and video online)

Hamas isn’t hiding the truth, BUT the media is


----------



## Sixties Fan

Before the data is presented, and for the sake of readers’ convenience, I would like to point out that of the 19 killed there are:


7 operatives from Hamas’ Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades
1 operative of the military wing of the Islamic Jihad, Saraya al-Quds
2 activists of Katayef al-Maqawama al-Wataniya al-Filastina – the military wing of the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine
1 operative of the al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades, the military wing of Fatah’s Shahid Nakhl al-‘Amudi faction
1 Hamas security forces operative (armed)
1 military activist of the Fatah movement
1 affiliate of Shada al-Aqsa – the Shahid unit of Nabil Mas’ud – an Iranian-oriented faction
1 Hamas-affiliated operative with an orientation to the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades
1 Fatah activist – it has not been proven that he is a military activist
3 without any significant organizational affiliation
*Total of 15 persons with actual military identification. Another 4 whose connection to military activity has not been proven.*

*Note:* Failure to find any connection publicly in the Palestinian media does not mean that they are not military activists.

Another important factor to consider when examining the identity of the dead and their affiliation is the fact that out of the 19 killed, it is possible to clearly identify 15 military activists, i.e. around 80% of those killed at a minimum.

The entire Gaza Strip has fewer than 70,000 military operatives, including from all the various organizations. Gaza has a population of 2 million today. That is, the percentage of military activists out of the total population is lower than 3.5%.

(full article online)

Exposed: More Palestinian 'Victims' Identified as Terror Org Members | HonestReporting


----------



## Sixties Fan

AP Exposes Hamas Definition of 'Non-Violence' | HonestReporting


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Before the data is presented, and for the sake of readers’ convenience, I would like to point out that of the 19 killed there are:
> 
> 
> 7 operatives from Hamas’ Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades
> 1 operative of the military wing of the Islamic Jihad, Saraya al-Quds
> 2 activists of Katayef al-Maqawama al-Wataniya al-Filastina – the military wing of the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine
> 1 operative of the al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades, the military wing of Fatah’s Shahid Nakhl al-‘Amudi faction
> 1 Hamas security forces operative (armed)
> 1 military activist of the Fatah movement
> 1 affiliate of Shada al-Aqsa – the Shahid unit of Nabil Mas’ud – an Iranian-oriented faction
> 1 Hamas-affiliated operative with an orientation to the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades
> 1 Fatah activist – it has not been proven that he is a military activist
> 3 without any significant organizational affiliation
> *Total of 15 persons with actual military identification. Another 4 whose connection to military activity has not been proven.*
> 
> *Note:* Failure to find any connection publicly in the Palestinian media does not mean that they are not military activists.
> 
> Another important factor to consider when examining the identity of the dead and their affiliation is the fact that out of the 19 killed, it is possible to clearly identify 15 military activists, i.e. around 80% of those killed at a minimum.
> 
> The entire Gaza Strip has fewer than 70,000 military operatives, including from all the various organizations. Gaza has a population of 2 million today. That is, the percentage of military activists out of the total population is lower than 3.5%.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Exposed: More Palestinian 'Victims' Identified as Terror Org Members | HonestReporting


How many were armed?


----------



## Hollie

""Tire Burning Unit", "Wire Cutter Unit" 
"Dead Gee-hadi Walking Unit"

I think we're seeing a pathology that makes these knuckle-draggers as dangerous to themselves as they are to others. 


At Rally Held by "Tire-Burning Unit" in Gaza, Demonstrators Brandish Wire-Cutters, Chant Antisemitic Slogans - Scenes from Gaza "Return March"

*AT RALLY HELD BY "TIRE-BURNING UNIT" IN GAZA, DEMONSTRATORS BRANDISH WIRE-CUTTERS, CHANT ANTISEMITIC SLOGANS - SCENES FROM GAZA "RETURN MARCH"*
April 28, 2018


----------



## Hollie

What I find unfortunate is that the Islamic retrograde will still be referred to as “radical” when he is really just a pious Moslem who knows his koranology. 

I’ll note that the inventor of Islam, the "model for humanity" and self-entitled developer of the "perfect system for life" defines me and much of the planet as "the worst of beasts"

YUSUFALI: For the worst of beasts in the sight of Allah are those who reject Him: They will not believe. 
PICKTHAL: Lo! the worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the ungrateful who will As we find so often, not believe. 
SHAKIR: Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe. 




MEMRI TV Clip No. 6500: Friday Sermon At Gaza 'Return March': Our Blessed Land Is Being Trampled By The Accursed Descendants Of Apes And Pigs

MEMRI TV Clips Of Gaza 'Return March'

To view this clip on MEMRI TV, click here.

During a Friday sermon delivered in East Jabalya, Gaza, on March 30, at the venue of the "Return March," the preacher said that the "blessed land" was being "trampled by the accursed descendants of apes and pigs, the remnants of the brutal, savage, and barbaric colonialism." The sermon was broadcast by Hamas' Al-Aqsa TV.


----------



## Sixties Fan

International Law Is Not Keeping Up With How Hamas Exploits Human Shields (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shedding some dim light on the state of mind of the pyromaniacs, images of Gazan kites (like the one below) festooned with Nazi swastikas accompany many of the reports.




Image Source: AP

The *Rome Statute* of the International Criminal Court - the treaty that established it and entered into force on 1 July 2002 - defines destroying the environment, even if no one is killed, as a war crime. In September 2016, the ICC prosecution *issued a policy directive* stating that it would place a special priority on prosecuting war crimes against the environment, something it had never done until then.

Hard not to notice the tone of pride and enthusiasm as certain media outlets report on the incendiary attacks by Gazan Palestinian Arabs. "_Palestinian ‘Fire Kites’ Spark Huge Blaze in Zionist Settlements near Gaza Border_" [Al Manar, May 02, 2018] for instance, and "_Flaming kites mark fifth Friday of Gaza protests_" [Mondoweiss, April 29, 2018].

Almost as if burning down the neighhbours' crops - or setting mountains of rubber tires ablaze and generating carcinogenic smoke and fumes - will get the attackers a better life. 

(full article online)

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 08-May-18: War crimes, incendiary neighbors


----------



## Ropey




----------



## Sixties Fan

Ropey said:


>


Please post this on the "Honduras moves its Embassy to Jerusalem "  thread.

This is the wrong thread for these photos.  Thank you.


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to the Meir Amit ITIC, over 200 incendiary kites have been sent into Israel so far, setting fire to hundreds of dunams of agricultural areas in western Negev communities and causing damage estimated in the hundreds of thousands of shekels.

In the US, deliberately setting a wildire is a felony. Wildfires destroy natural lands as well as buildings. They pollute the air and can cause respiratory problems. Over 50 people have been killed by arson wildfires in the US.

Palestinian media celebrates these fires.

So where is the condemnation from the liberal side of the political spectrum of the specific, deliberate Palestinian policy of setting wildfires in Israel?

(full article online)

Still waiting for any environmentalists to condemn Gazans for deliberately setting wildffires in Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Here's a classic Pallywood moment, where one of those "injured" people who were supposedly shot by Israeli snipers gets up off his stretcher after the group thought all the cameras were off.

Pallywood Wounded in Gaza - May 4, 2018

(full article online)

#Pallywood video of "injured" Gazan getting off of stretcher after cameras are gone ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Huge fire in Israeli fields started by Gazan Molotov cocktail balloons 

In an interview on Radio Darom, Minister of Internal Security Gilad Erdan (Likud) said the IDF has received new open fire instructions, and Gazans flying Molotov kites will be treated as terrorists in every way, and the IDF is permitted to eliminate the kite flyers, including by drone-based targeted assassination.

(full article online)

IDF Permitted to Eliminate Kite Terrorists


----------



## Sixties Fan

A preliminary investigation revealed the kite was launched from a Hamas po‎sition near the crossing, with a burning torch attached to its tail.

(full article online)

Kitebomb lands in Kerem Shalom


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


>


 Had to play that terrorist card.


----------



## Hollie

I suppose that feeling confident in their ability to rouse the rabal toward injury and death for a stipend, the islamic terrorist leadership in Hamas will gladly try and urge their minions into harms way in greater numbers. 
*

Hamas Gaza head gives support for protesters to breach Israel fence

Hamas Gaza head gives support for protesters to breach Israel fence
*
Gaza City (Palestinian Territories) (AFP) - A senior Hamas official signalled support Thursday for thousands of Palestinians to breach the border fence from Gaza into Israel at protests to coincide with next week's US embassy move to Jerusalem.

In his first major briefing to international media since becoming Gaza head of the Islamist group in 2017, Yahya Sinwar implied he would like to see thousands of Palestinians crossing into Israel as part of more than a month of protests.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Gaza Border Fence Riots as an Operational Campaign


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Israeli army said around 5,000 people were participating in the rallies. Protesters were clashing with Israeli troops at the border in several locations, burning tires and hurling stones at soldiers. Several flaming kites were flown over the fence by demonstrators, sparking blazes in Israeli territory. Israeli officials said the fires were under control.

(full article online)

Palestinian killed as thousands take part in weekly Gaza protests


----------



## Hollie

Pretty typical of the brutish, entitled babble that gushes from islamic terrorists. They're perfectly willing to send the islamic rabble to attack the Israeli border while they watch the show on CNN from their luxury condos. 

"We can't be held responsible for our actions". Well, yes you can. 


http://www.israelhayom.com/2018/05/11/hamas-military-leader-hints-of-mass-breach-of-israeli-border/

*Hamas military leader hints of mass breach of Israeli border*.

Yahya Sinwar claims he hopes to avoid bloodshed, but says Gaza's rulers will make no attempt to hold back the masses expected to take part in "March of Return" on May 15 • Gaza's residents are desperate, their actions are impossible to predict, he says.


----------



## Sixties Fan

All you need to do is stand there and watch. One side attacks; the other defends. One side initiates; the other responds. One side tries to get people injured and killed; the other makes every attempt to prevent it.

I made a point of speaking with young soldiers. My impression was that they understand the complexity and sensitivity of the situation and relate to their role seriously and professionally.

They told me what they face on daily basis. Multiple attempts are made to damage and breach the fence. Booby-trapped IEDs (improvised explosive devices) are placed under the cover of riots and smoke. Direct attacks include hurling hand grenades and IEDs, as well as small arms and sniper fire. Fire-bomb-carrying kites are launched in order to burn Israeli forests, fields and villages.

Rules of engagement are strict and closely monitored. Each and every shot is approved by a senior commander. Every effort is made to avoid fatalities, so even when shooting is necessary, soldiers aim at the legs. Only individuals who are directly involved in carrying out attacks are targeted. No “protesters” are shot. Nothing is done randomly or indiscriminately. No one shoots into crowds.

(full article online)

Peaceful demonstrations? Yeah right!


----------



## Sixties Fan

The army says Palestinians threw grenades and explosives at troops during clashes along the border, while upping the number of people who took part in the violent protests to 15,000.

It also says protesters damaged “security infrastructure” during the riots.

(full article online)

IDF: Palestinians throw grenades, explosives at troops on Gaza border


----------



## Sixties Fan

“This is the second time in recent days that rioters have harmed and attempted to sabotage humanitarian efforts that Israel and other countries carry out. Hamas is responsible for everything that happens in Gaza, above and below ground,” said the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit.

Earlier on Friday, approximately 15,000 Palestinian Arabs participated in riots along the Gaza border. The rioters hurled pipe bombs, rocks, and grenades, sabotaged security infrastructure, and burned tires.

(full article online)

Again: Arabs set fire to Gaza border crossing


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> “This is the second time in recent days that rioters have harmed and attempted to sabotage humanitarian efforts that Israel and other countries carry out. Hamas is responsible for everything that happens in Gaza, above and below ground,” said the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit.
> 
> Earlier on Friday, approximately 15,000 Palestinian Arabs participated in riots along the Gaza border. The rioters hurled pipe bombs, rocks, and grenades, sabotaged security infrastructure, and burned tires.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Again: Arabs set fire to Gaza border crossing


The Palestinians keep chipping away at the fence and I don't see anybody down there fixing it.


----------



## Billo_Really

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians keep chipping away at the fence and I don't see anybody down there fixing it.


Israel is deliberately trying to start a war with Syria, to take attention away from their slaughter of innocent Palestinians.


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Before the data is presented, and for the sake of readers’ convenience, I would like to point out that of the 19 killed there are:
> 
> 
> 7 operatives from Hamas’ Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades
> 1 operative of the military wing of the Islamic Jihad, Saraya al-Quds
> 2 activists of Katayef al-Maqawama al-Wataniya al-Filastina – the military wing of the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine
> 1 operative of the al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades, the military wing of Fatah’s Shahid Nakhl al-‘Amudi faction
> 1 Hamas security forces operative (armed)
> 1 military activist of the Fatah movement
> 1 affiliate of Shada al-Aqsa – the Shahid unit of Nabil Mas’ud – an Iranian-oriented faction
> 1 Hamas-affiliated operative with an orientation to the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades
> 1 Fatah activist – it has not been proven that he is a military activist
> 3 without any significant organizational affiliation
> *Total of 15 persons with actual military identification. Another 4 whose connection to military activity has not been proven.*
> 
> *Note:* Failure to find any connection publicly in the Palestinian media does not mean that they are not military activists.
> 
> Another important factor to consider when examining the identity of the dead and their affiliation is the fact that out of the 19 killed, it is possible to clearly identify 15 military activists, i.e. around 80% of those killed at a minimum.
> 
> The entire Gaza Strip has fewer than 70,000 military operatives, including from all the various organizations. Gaza has a population of 2 million today. That is, the percentage of military activists out of the total population is lower than 3.5%.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Exposed: More Palestinian 'Victims' Identified as Terror Org Members | HonestReporting
> 
> 
> 
> How many were armed?
Click to expand...

You sure are going to be on a rant after the IDF and the US troops bomb the shit out these POS Gazans.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians keep chipping away at the fence and I don't see anybody down there fixing it.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is deliberately trying to start a war with Syria, to take attention away from their slaughter of innocent Palestinians.
Click to expand...


Your conspiracy theories are a hoot.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> “This is the second time in recent days that rioters have harmed and attempted to sabotage humanitarian efforts that Israel and other countries carry out. Hamas is responsible for everything that happens in Gaza, above and below ground,” said the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit.
> 
> Earlier on Friday, approximately 15,000 Palestinian Arabs participated in riots along the Gaza border. The rioters hurled pipe bombs, rocks, and grenades, sabotaged security infrastructure, and burned tires.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Again: Arabs set fire to Gaza border crossing
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians keep chipping away at the fence and I don't see anybody down there fixing it.
Click to expand...


That's because you're not paying attention.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist Gandhi's know only violence and defeat.


----------



## Hollie

Islamics never have a shortage a young girls to be exploited for gee-had propaganda. 



MEMRI TV Clip No. 6546: Young Palestinian Girl: I Am Not Afraid, Martyrs In The Millions Are Marching To Jerusalem – Scenes From Gaza 'Return March'

MEMRI TV Clips Of Gaza 'Return March'

To view this clip on MEMRI TV, click here.

Asked by a reporter if she wasn't afraid to come to the Return March rally, a young Palestinian girl responded: "What have I got to be afraid of? Their filthy weapons?" She said: "Let's see the occupation army come here and face me without its weapons!" and chanted: "Martyrs in the millions are marching to Jerusalem," as people around cheered and cried "Allah Akbar." The footage, filmed by Ihab Omar Fasfous, was posted on the Internet on April 26.


----------



## Hollie

Gee wiz. The Peaceful Tire Burning Riots have become just another excuse for Arabs-Moslems to behave like Arabs-Moslems. 

Never saw that one comin’. 

*IDF: Palestinians throw grenades, explosives at troops on Gaza border*

*IDF: Palestinians throw grenades, explosives at troops on Gaza border*

*Army says 15,000 take part in clashes, damage 'security infrastructure' ahead of expected culmination of protests next week *
By ALEXANDER FULBRIGHT11 May 2018, 12:43 pm  11


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Israeli military on Saturday announced the closure of the Kerem Shalom border crossing into the Gaza Strip, a day after Palestinian rioters trashed key infrastructure serving the only entry point of outside goods into the Hamas-run Strip, causing immense damage.

The crossing will be closed while the damage is repaired, and will reopen in accordance with the security situation, officials said.

(full article online)

Israel to close key Gaza crossing while it repairs immense damage by rioters


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> Gee wiz. The Peaceful Tire Burning Riots have become just another excuse for Arabs-Moslems to behave like Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> Never saw that one comin’.
> 
> *IDF: Palestinians throw grenades, explosives at troops on Gaza border*
> 
> *IDF: Palestinians throw grenades, explosives at troops on Gaza border*
> 
> *Army says 15,000 take part in clashes, damage 'security infrastructure' ahead of expected culmination of protests next week *
> By ALEXANDER FULBRIGHT11 May 2018, 12:43 pm  11


 
Don’t make up stories; they are  PEACEFUL


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> “This is the second time in recent days that rioters have harmed and attempted to sabotage humanitarian efforts that Israel and other countries carry out. Hamas is responsible for everything that happens in Gaza, above and below ground,” said the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit.
> 
> Earlier on Friday, approximately 15,000 Palestinian Arabs participated in riots along the Gaza border. The rioters hurled pipe bombs, rocks, and grenades, sabotaged security infrastructure, and burned tires.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Again: Arabs set fire to Gaza border crossing
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians keep chipping away at the fence and I don't see anybody down there fixing it.
Click to expand...


Let them cross over; The Israeli army will get a lot of practice target shooting


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> The Israeli military on Saturday announced the closure of the Kerem Shalom border crossing into the Gaza Strip, a day after Palestinian rioters trashed key infrastructure serving the only entry point of outside goods into the Hamas-run Strip, causing immense damage.
> 
> The crossing will be closed while the damage is repaired, and will reopen in accordance with the security situation, officials said.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Israel to close key Gaza crossing while it repairs immense damage by rioters



Unbelievable.  

What does a sovereign nation DO with neighbors like this at their borders?  Neighbors who actively destroy infrastructure which is solely intended to benefit them and without which they will suffer.  And for absolutely no purpose or effect.  Neighbors who are suffering and willing to suffer even more, though their stated goal is impossible to achieve.  Neighbors who refuse peace, even though it will bring safety and peace and economic viability.

Do we offer carrots or sticks?  Which ones?  How?  

And please, do not respond with "end the blockade".  As though Israel is going to give them access to more weapons when they act like this.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel sends troop reinforcements to Gaza, West Bank ahead of US embassy opening


----------



## Sixties Fan

The IDF is using new, small remote-controlled aircraft with knives on their wings to counter incendiary kites launched from the Gaza Strip.

Developed by the army and the Defense Ministry’s Administration for the Development of Weapons and Technological Infrastructure (MAFAT), the IDF Southern Command use the drones to cut the wires holding the kites together, in order to prevent them from reaching Israeli fields and setting them ablaze.


The IDF decided to make operational use of the aircraft on Friday, and it has since downed more than 40 kites, according to Walla.

(full article online)

IDF uses drones to down Gazan fire kites


----------



## Sixties Fan

Behind The Smoke Screen


(full article online)

WATCH: Exclusive footage from inside Gaza reveals true face of protests


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> The IDF is using new, small remote-controlled aircraft with knives on their wings to counter incendiary kites launched from the Gaza Strip.
> 
> Developed by the army and the Defense Ministry’s Administration for the Development of Weapons and Technological Infrastructure (MAFAT), the IDF Southern Command use the drones to cut the wires holding the kites together, in order to prevent them from reaching Israeli fields and setting them ablaze.
> 
> 
> The IDF decided to make operational use of the aircraft on Friday, and it has since downed more than 40 kites, according to Walla.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> IDF uses drones to down Gazan fire kites




Win. 

It's just stupid Israel has to invent stuff like this to address stupidity.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The IDF is using new, small remote-controlled aircraft with knives on their wings to counter incendiary kites launched from the Gaza Strip.
> 
> Developed by the army and the Defense Ministry’s Administration for the Development of Weapons and Technological Infrastructure (MAFAT), the IDF Southern Command use the drones to cut the wires holding the kites together, in order to prevent them from reaching Israeli fields and setting them ablaze.
> 
> 
> The IDF decided to make operational use of the aircraft on Friday, and it has since downed more than 40 kites, according to Walla.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> IDF uses drones to down Gazan fire kites
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Win.
> 
> It's just stupid Israel has to invent stuff like this to address stupidity.
Click to expand...

Jews.....The Mothers of Invention


----------



## Dan Stubbs

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'


*I guess they forgot the last time they did this and what happened to them.*


----------



## Sixties Fan

A Palestinian source in Gaza, meanwhile, told Ynet that Hamas has been profiteering considerably as a result of the crossing’s destruction. The Kerem Shalom crossing is operated by the Palestinian Crossings Authority, which is controlled by the Palestinian Authority (PA) rather than Hamas, he noted.

The source then explained that *Hamas was encouraging rioters to damage crossings*, thereby causing the PA to lose revenue from customs and other taxes levied on incoming goods.

Bringing the goods in through the Rafah border crossing, the source added, *will allow Hamas to pocket such tax levies*.

(full article online)

What's Really Behind Trashing of Kerem Shalom? | HonestReporting


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arab terrorist cuts barbed wire during clashes with Israeli forces along the border with the Gaza strip, May 11, 2018. 

Three IDF brigades have been ordered to stop their training program and were sent to Gaza and Judea and Samaria as part of preparations for the stormy week ahead, Israeli media reported Sunday. Thousands of soldiers are currently being sent to the various fronts and are on high alert, especially after the exposure and demolition of a terror tunnel in the Gaza Strip near Israel’s border.

(full article online)

IDF Deploying 3 Brigades Ahead of ‘Nakba’ Day


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  Actions and consequences  ]

A leading businessman said the Gaza Strip is rapidly running out of cooking gas, after a large crowd of Palestinian demonstrators destroyed parts of the only cargo crossing through which fuel and gas can enter the territory from Israel.

Samir Hamada, head of the association of cooking gas vendors, said Sunday that Gaza’s 2 million residents consume about 350 tons of gas daily, but that only about 300 tons are still available at private sales outlets. He says the territory’s Hamas rulers ordered sales to stop to assess the shortage.

(full article online)

Gaza Strip running low on cooking gas after Palestinian vandals trash crossing


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Israel Defense Forces expects over 100,000 Palestinians to take part in the mass demonstrations and potentially as many as 200,000, something that would indicate a major victory for the Hamas terrorist group, which rules Gaza and has co-opted what were originally to be nonviolent protests for its own ends.

(full article online)

IDF gears up for mass Gaza riots, warning Hamas plans to ‘massacre’ Israelis


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> The Israel Defense Forces expects over 100,000 Palestinians to take part in the mass demonstrations and potentially as many as 200,000, something that would indicate a major victory for the Hamas terrorist group, which rules Gaza and has co-opted what were originally to be nonviolent protests for its own ends.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> IDF gears up for mass Gaza riots, warning Hamas plans to ‘massacre’ Israelis



Still waiting for TP to let me know what they think Israel should do to respond to a mixed group of civilians and terrorists breaching the border in large numbers.


----------



## PredFan

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'



They better pack plenty of body bags.


----------



## Billy_Kinetta

PredFan said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They better pack plenty of body bags.
Click to expand...


A useful suggestion.


----------



## Sixties Fan

ACT NOW! Urge UN to Condemn Hamas ‘Fire Terror’


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ From 1920 to the present...... the Arab/Muslim way.....Riots  ]

Hamas: Riots on Day of US Embassy Opening in Jerusalem Will Be ‘Decisive’


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ More from the "Peaceful  Protests "  ]

Khaled al-Batsh, organizer of the “Marches of Return," warned Israel against harming Arabs participating in the events, hinting that this could lead to a military response by armed groups.

Speaking to the Hamas site “Al-Risala,” Batsh said, "We have behind us men and guns who know very well how to protect our people ... Our backs will not be exposed ... We have organizations of struggle that protect the body and they will put an end to any attempt to harm the people and attack it."

Batsh noted that the marches will set out on Monday wherever “Palestinians” are found to protest the transfer of the US embassy to Jerusalem.

(full article online)

Armed Hamas members will guard 'March of Return'


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas has followed this strategy many times in the past, firing rockets at Israeli civilian communities and constructing under the border sophisticated attack tunnels from which fighters would storm into the heart of Jewish communities and carry out mass murder and abduction. Thousands of Palestinians have died, including human shields that are so central to Hamas's strategy, as the IDF has been compelled to forcefully defend its people. The world has often reacted with horror and outrage, blaming Israel for the bloodshed provoked by Hamas — just as intended.

If anything, Hamas's current plans are even more effective. Rockets and attack tunnels look like what they are — engines of war. But political leaders, international organizations, human rights groups and the media — the primary targets for Hamas's lethal propaganda — find it hard to understand how demonstrations, falsely portrayed as peaceful, like they might see in their own cities, can pose a sufficient threat to warrant the use of deadly force.

The price paid in Palestinian blood of stopping border penetrations has so far been high and is likely to increase sharply this week. But imagine the consequences if the IDF failed to stop these crowds breaking through the fence. The nearest Israeli communities are just a few minutes dash from the border by armed terrorists intent on mass murder. In this scenario, with gunmen indistinguishable from unarmed civilians, who themselves often also pose a violent threat, it is hard to see how the IDF could avoid inflicting far higher casualties in defence of their territory and people.

To prevent this catastrophic scenario becoming reality, the IDF has adopted a graduated response. They airdropped thousands of leaflets and used SMS, social media, phone calls and radio broadcasts to warn the people of Gaza not to gather at the border or approach the fence. They even contacted Gaza bus company owners, asking them not to transport people to the border.

When these appeals were nullified by Hamas's coercion of the civilian population, the IDF used tear gas to disperse the crowds that approached the fence. Next, they fired warning shots overhead. Finally, only where absolutely necessary and lawful, they used ball ammunition aimed to disable rather than kill. Several died as a result of this gunfire and many more were wounded. Of the 50 people Palestinian authorities claim were killed up to now, Israel assesses that 80% were terrorist operatives or individuals associated with them.

I have heard many armchair experts arguing that Israel should have acted differently, but not one credibly explain how. Instead, the UN, EU and a range of human rights groups and media organizations have devoted their efforts to unjustly condemning Israel's actions. If there was genuine concern for human life and human rights among these people, rather than a fixation on unfairly vilifying Israel, they would harshly condemn Hamas. Instead, their criticism of Israel plays directly into Hamas's hands and validates the use of human shields and the strategy of forcing the killing their own civilians.

(full article online)

Expected Upsurge in Gaza Violence


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> I have heard many armchair experts arguing that Israel should have acted differently, but not one credibly explain how.



Yeah.  This.


----------



## Shusha

Dear Sovereign Nation,

Today, up to 200,000 people are going to mass at your border.  Their stated intention is to break through the border and enter your country.  Some have called to murder your citizens. Some are carrying weapons to actually murder your citizens.  Some are "innocent protesters".  

What is the correct legal and moral response?


----------



## Ria_Longhorn

The Arab Palestinians should consider themselves fortunate they're not up against the weak-chinned, murdering eye-doctor from Syria, or the dog Erdogan  from Turkey, who'd mow 'em down in an instant.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  Ria_Longhorn,  et al,

Yes, the Arab Palestinians conflict with the Israelis is nt so dissimilar to the Kurkdish (PKK) conflict with the Turks. 



Ria_Longhorn said:


> The Arab Palestinians should consider themselves fortunate they're not up against the weak-chinned, murdering eye-doctor from Syria, or the dog Erdogan  from Turkey, who'd mow 'em down in an instant.


*(COMMENT)*

Personally, I see the Israelis exhibiting remarkable restraint of their power under Article 2 and Article 51 of the Charter.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Billy_Kinetta

Shusha said:


> Dear Sovereign Nation,
> 
> Today, up to 200,000 people are going to mass at your border.  Their stated intention is to break through the border and enter your country.  Some have called to murder your citizens. Some are carrying weapons to actually murder your citizens.  Some are "innocent protesters".
> 
> What is the correct legal and moral response?



If they mass on their side of the border, fine.  They can rant and rave all they like.

If they try to breach the barrier, toss legality and morality out the window and mow them down.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Israeli army said around 50,000 Gazans were demonstrating in 12 locations along the border. It said thousands more were gathered at points several hundred meters from the fence.

At around 4 p.m., the time that the US was inaugurating its embassy in Jerusalem, military sources said Hamas-spurred groups were trying to breach the border at several spots along the Gaza fence.

The army said three of those killed were trying to plant explosives at the border fence. In two separate incidents, IDF troops opened fire on gunmen who were trying to shoot them, Hadashot TV said.

The army also said aircraft struck a Hamas post after gunmen there opened fire on troops. There were no injuries among the soldiers. Hadashot TV said the IAF struck five targets in the Jabaliya area.

Military sources said Hamas was determined to spark a major new, long-term uprising against Israel, extending to the West Bank.


(full article online)

Palestinians say 45 killed, including terror operatives, as 50,000 rally in Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Nothing new.  Iran, Iran, Iran.  ]

Ahead of mass riots expected on Monday, the Shin Bet released the findings of its interrogations of those suspects, which the security service said showed the methods used by Hamas to destabilize the border area, breach the fence and try to carry out terror attacks inside Israeli territory.

“From the information we have, it appears Hamas is encouraging and sending protesters to the border fence in order to carry out violent acts and damage security infrastructure. In addition, it was found that Iran is providing funding to Hamas in order for it to carry out these violent activities along the Gaza Strip’s border fence,” the Shin Bet said.

(full article online)

Iran is funding Hamas’s violent campaign at Gaza border, Shin Bet says


----------



## Sixties Fan

RT Arabic adds that the streets in Gaza towns and neighborhoods have become empty after shops, government and private institutions have closed their doors.

It seems apparent that this committee is really part of Hamas, because no one would be able to close government institutions in Gaza without Hamas support.

From what is being reported, it appears that UNRWA is indeed participating in these strikes.

This means that the UN is actively participating in Hamas-organized anti-Israel riots and that UNRWA, against its own policies, is engaging in political activity - and encouraging violent activity - against Israel.

Just another question for reporters to avoid asking during UNRWA's next press conference announcing how they managed to convince another nation to donate a couple of million dollars to an organization that violates the UN's own rules of non-partisanship every day.

(full article online)

.@UNRWA reportedly closes schools and offices so students and employees can attack Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

CNN is reporting 43 Arabs-Moslems killed at the border riots / border assault.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Hollie said:


> CNN is reporting 43 Arabs-Moslems killed at the border riots / border assault.


No doubt Hamas and Mogherini are still hoping for a higher body count.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The IDF Spokesperson's Office released two video clips from the violent confrontations on the Gaza border Monday. Over 40,000 people participated in the riots at 13 locations along the Gaza border.

One of the clips shows members of an armed squad attempting to break through the perimeter fence. An IDF vehicle arrives at the scene and fires at the terrorists, some of whom escape.

In another video, demonstrators can be seen attempting to damage the fence by pulling parts of the fence down and by burning tires.

At the same time, the army published pictures of terrorists placing an improvised explosive device (IED) near the fence, as well as demonstrators burning tires and a kite with a firebomb that was sent from one of the demonstrations.

Another video documented the attack on Hamas' position by the Israeli Air Force. The IDF Spokesperson's Office said that a fighter plane attacked five terrorist targets in a Hamas training camp in the northern Gaza Strip, in response to the terrorist activity carried out by the Hamas terrorist organization in the past few hours along the border fence.

(full article and video online)

Watch: Attempted infiltration under cover of Gaza demonstrations


----------



## Hollie

As expected, Hamas has urged their minions to wage war, yet, no sign of the Hamas terrorists in their military uniforms and ski masks leading the charge. 

I guess the islamic terrorist fashion show with Hamas parading around in those uniforms will wait until later.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gaza border death toll climbs to 52; over 1,200 injured

Gaza protests apparently winding down for night


----------



## Sixties Fan

Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman warned Gazans Monday to keep away from the protests. “I suggest to the residents of Gaza: Do not be blinded by [Hamas leader Yahya] Sinwar, who sends your children to sacrifice their lives without hope,” he tweeted. “We will protect our citizens by all means necessary and will not allow the fence to be breached.”

The army fired at and ignited piles of tires prepared by demonstrators near the border, Hadashot news reported, in order to burn them prematurely and prevent demonstrators from using them later to create a smokescreen.

(full article online)

52 Palestinians said killed, including terror operatives, in Gaza border riots


----------



## Sixties Fan

As America endorses Israel in Jerusalem, Hamas shows it never will


----------



## Sixties Fan

Kerem Shalom Crossing was again set on fire tonight by Hamas terrorists. IDF responds against Hamas targets.

(full article online)

Netanyahu: 'Hamas wants to destroy us - we will act with determination'


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israeli Shootings of Palestinians in Gaza "A Violation of International Law"*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israeli Shootings of Palestinians in Gaza "A Violation of International Law"*
> 
> **



He states: "Its a violation of international law for security forces of any sort to be using deadly ammunition fire against unarmed protesters.  Deadly, lethal fire is only permitted as a last resort only when the lives or safety of the security forces is under immanent threat of danger of death."

Do you have a link to that?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israeli Shootings of Palestinians in Gaza "A Violation of International Law"*
> 
> **



Well, you cut and pasted what was on YouTube so it must be true.

You fell down and bumped your head again, right?


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Salim Abu Daher*, 21, a resident of the Gaza Strip, was arrested on April 28, 2018 upon infiltrating into Israel in order to burn fields and groves.

From his investigation it was learned that Hamas is financing the violent action in the framework of which kite-borne firebombs are sent toward Israeli territory. Hamas members in civilian clothing circulate among violent activists and supply gasoline for the kite-borne firebombs which are designed to ignite and burn Israeli fields.



* Another detainee said that Hamas encourages children and young people to cross the fence, Shabak reported.

* Three Arab residents of the Gaza Strip were arrested by the IDF on May 4, 2018, after crossing the fence into Israeli territory. One of the infiltrators told his Shabak interrogators that Hamas militants in civilian clothes encourage children to try to cross the fence in order to steal IDF equipment. Thus the event on May 4, in which a 13-year-old youth was wounded while taking part in an attempt to infiltrate into Israeli territory in order to steal a security camera at Karni Crossing, east of Gaza City.

(full article online)

Captured Rioters: Iran Paying Hamas for Violence, Terrorism, at Gaza Border Fence


----------



## Sixties Fan

A military assessment concluded that Hamas dismantled the posts in order to remove obstacles, thus making it easier to intensify violence during the riots for Nakba Day — Nakba in Arabic means “catastrophe” or “disaster” as signifies their lament over the rebirth of the State of Israel which Palestinian Authority Arabs and some Israeli Arabs as well mark each year — this Tuesday, May 15.


(full article online)

Hamas Dismantles Its Own Border Observation Posts Ahead of Nakba Day


----------



## toomuchtime_

Sixties Fan said:


> A military assessment concluded that Hamas dismantled the posts in order to remove obstacles, thus making it easier to intensify violence during the riots for Nakba Day — Nakba in Arabic means “catastrophe” or “disaster” as signifies their lament over the rebirth of the State of Israel which Palestinian Authority Arabs and some Israeli Arabs as well mark each year — this Tuesday, May 15.
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas Dismantles Its Own Border Observation Posts Ahead of Nakba Day


You've got to be wondering what UNWRA is feeding these people because there doesn't seem to be a fully functioning brain in all of Gaza.


----------



## Billo_Really

toomuchtime_ said:


> You've got to be wondering what UNWRA is feeding these people because there doesn't seem to be a fully functioning brain in all of Gaza.


Stop starving them because you didn't like the results of an election.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> A military assessment concluded that Hamas dismantled the posts in order to remove obstacles, thus making it easier to intensify violence during the riots for Nakba Day — Nakba in Arabic means “catastrophe” or “disaster” as signifies their lament over the rebirth of the State of Israel which Palestinian Authority Arabs and some Israeli Arabs as well mark each year — this Tuesday, May 15.
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas Dismantles Its Own Border Observation Posts Ahead of Nakba Day


This is your fault.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> You've got to be wondering what UNWRA is feeding these people because there doesn't seem to be a fully functioning brain in all of Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> Stop starving them because you didn't like the results of an election.
Click to expand...

It is not the result of the election, fool.
It is what Hamas chose to do after the election.

"INCOMING" !!!!!


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> A military assessment concluded that Hamas dismantled the posts in order to remove obstacles, thus making it easier to intensify violence during the riots for Nakba Day — Nakba in Arabic means “catastrophe” or “disaster” as signifies their lament over the rebirth of the State of Israel which Palestinian Authority Arabs and some Israeli Arabs as well mark each year — this Tuesday, May 15.
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas Dismantles Its Own Border Observation Posts Ahead of Nakba Day
> 
> 
> 
> This is your fault.
Click to expand...

Pass the popcorn


----------



## toomuchtime_

Billo_Really said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> You've got to be wondering what UNWRA is feeding these people because there doesn't seem to be a fully functioning brain in all of Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> Stop starving them because you didn't like the results of an election.
Click to expand...

Stop telling lies.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> It is not the result of the election, fool.
> It is what Hamas chose to do after the election.
> 
> "INCOMING" !!!!!


No, it was the election.  Stop fucking lying!


----------



## Billo_Really

Doctor's without Borders condemn's Israel's use of deadly force on unarmed protesters.

*Doctors Without Borders Condemns the 'Bloodbath' in Gaza as a Result of Israel's 'Disproportionate Use of Violence' 
*​Do the Israeli's give a shit?  No.  Because Israeli's have no regard for human life.


----------



## Billo_Really

toomuchtime_ said:


> Stop telling lies.


I'm not lying.


----------



## skye

Palestinians are mental  

do not give too much importance to them....troublemakers....that's all they are considered in the whole Middle East.


----------



## Billo_Really

The Gaza blockade actually started in 1991.

_Even though both the Israeli government and the mainstream media claims that the blockade began in 2007, the closure of Gaza was a gradual process that started in 1991. While what we see today is, thus far, the most severe manifestation of this process, Palestinian residents of the Gaza Strip have been subject to collective punishment for two decades._​


----------



## Billo_Really

skye said:


> Palestinians are mental
> 
> do not give too much importance to them....troublemakers....that's all they are considered in the whole Middle East.


Israel is the one causing all the trouble.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Doctor's without Borders condemn's Israel's use of deadly force on unarmed protesters.
> 
> *Doctors Without Borders Condemns the 'Bloodbath' in Gaza as a Result of Israel's 'Disproportionate Use of Violence'
> *​Do the Israeli's give a shit?  No.  Because Israeli's have no regard for human life.


DWB should try to be non partisan

Medecins Sans Frontieres (Doctors Without Borders)


----------



## toomuchtime_

Billo_Really said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop telling lies.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not lying.
Click to expand...

Sure you are.  Israel isn't starving them, Hamas is.


----------



## skye

Never been on Earth.....such troublemakers...as the Palestinians

No wonder no Middle East Islamic country wants them


----------



## toomuchtime_

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is not the result of the election, fool.
> It is what Hamas chose to do after the election.
> 
> "INCOMING" !!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> No, it was the election.  Stop fucking lying!
Click to expand...

You see the dots but you can't connect them.  Hamas is at war with Israel and so when Hamas came control Gaza, rigorous security measures were needed.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Doctor's without Borders condemn's Israel's use of deadly force on unarmed protesters.
> 
> *Doctors Without Borders Condemns the 'Bloodbath' in Gaza as a Result of Israel's 'Disproportionate Use of Violence'
> *​Do the Israeli's give a shit?  No.  Because Israeli's have no regard for human life.


Top Palestinian official donates to Israeli hospital that saved his life
--------------

15 million Palestinian crossings into Israel in 2017

According to the ministry, Palestinians entered Israel 15 million times through various crossings from Gaza and the West Bank in 2017, an increase from the 13 million in 2016. On average, over 60,000 people per day entered Israel for work, medical treatment, humanitarian assistance or commerce.

------------------
How an Israeli hospital took in Syrians and became the world leader in treating war wounds


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> The Gaza blockade actually started in 1991.
> 
> _Even though both the Israeli government and the mainstream media claims that the blockade began in 2007, the closure of Gaza was a gradual process that started in 1991. While what we see today is, thus far, the most severe manifestation of this process, Palestinian residents of the Gaza Strip have been subject to collective punishment for two decades._​


Following the withdrawal of Israeli troops from Gaza in 2005, the terrorist organization Hamas emerged as the victor in the 2006 Palestinian elections.  Since the establishment of Hamas in the early 1990's, they have been known to Israel as violent antisemitic terrorists and have been classified by 7 countries as a terrorist organization. * After Hamas won the election Israel and "The Quartet on the Middle East" (US, Russia, UN, EU) imposed economic sanctions on Gaza, including the cessation of foreign aid to the Palestinian government, and restrictions on movement, imposed by Israel.  In order to lift these economic sanctions and movement restrictions, Hamas must: renounce violence against Israel, recognize Israel, and honor all previous agreeemnts between Israel and the Palestinian Authority.  *

Following the Battle of Gaza in June 2007 in which Hamas militarily defeated Fatah, *both Israel and Egypt *heavily tightened their respective border crossings, creating a "blockade".  This blockade includes a naval blockade.  So far Hamas has not conceeded to these stipulations, and the blockade is still in place. 

(full article online)

Israel's "Blockade" of Gaza


----------



## skye

Palestinians are a pain in the  ...there


Total troublemakers....no Islamic country wants them....do not blame them!


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Israel is the one causing all the trouble.



FFS.  In light of recent events?  This entirely one-sided point of view reeks of an inability to reason.  At best.


----------



## Sixties Fan

This committee is the one that called for a general strike in Gaza on Monday and Tuesday, so it must be linked with Hamas or else no one would have listened.

By wanting to have the riots continue, clearly Hamas likes how well they are going.

Meaning that Hamas wants to see more people die.

In the cynical world Hamas lives in, people being shot is a small price to pay for a day of negative media coverage of Israel.

(full article online)

Hamas-linked "March" committee decides to extend riots for another few weeks. They must like what they see. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## skye

grrrrrrrrr

palis are pain in the ass

in my personal opinion at least...


----------



## toobfreak

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'




American Television is responsible for this!  The Palestinians see how the American Radical Left riots, loots, bomb, protests, holds their breath, whines, and has hissy fits here, and the rest of our nation caves to the mewling brats EVERY TIME and gives them their way, and they wrongly assume it will work for them too over there.  

Fortunately, Israel is not overrun with idiot liberals and political correct fearful republicans.  I applaud the Israelis for being strong and having none of it.  Since the marauders will having nothing of any peaceful settlement, I hope the Israelis take it to these people that since no one can apparently peacefully coexist with them, they are finally put out of their misery when they finally lead to their own extermination.  Had these people gone along with the 1947 accord which the Jews accepted, the Palestinians would be TEN TIMES better off today.  Now they will be lucky if they even keep the Gaza Strip.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> DWB should try to be non partisan
> 
> Medecins Sans Frontieres (Doctors Without Borders)


They are non-partisan.  It's little hard to be for someone who targets even the handicapped with missiles.

*How Israel Mercilessly Targeted and Murdered Disabled People with Special Needs in Gaza*​


----------



## Billo_Really

toomuchtime_ said:


> Sure you are.  Israel isn't starving them, Hamas is.


It's Israel's blockade.  Israel decided to collectively punish everyone in Gaza.  You're even too pussy to take ownership over the shit things you do.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> DWB should try to be non partisan
> 
> Medecins Sans Frontieres (Doctors Without Borders)
> 
> 
> 
> They are non-partisan.  It's little hard to be for someone who targets even the handicapped with missiles.
> 
> *How Israel Mercilessly Targeted and Murdered Disabled People with Special Needs in Gaza*​
Click to expand...

Of course they are. 

 Just like Jewish Voices for Peace.

Not very Jewish.  And not at all for Peace.


----------



## Billo_Really

toomuchtime_ said:


> You see the dots but you can't connect them.  Hamas is at war with Israel and so when Hamas came control Gaza, rigorous security measures were needed.


Hamas wasn't at war with Israel.  Israel helped create Hamas.  They just refuse to be Israel's bitch, that's why they're not liked.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure you are.  Israel isn't starving them, Hamas is.
> 
> 
> 
> It's Israel's blockade.  Israel decided to collectively punish everyone in Gaza.  You're even too pussy to take ownership over the shit things you do.
Click to expand...

And Egypt's blocade as well.

Never mind why the Egyptians are blockading Gaza, right?


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Top Palestinian official donates to Israeli hospital that saved his life
> --------------
> 
> 15 million Palestinian crossings into Israel in 2017
> 
> According to the ministry, Palestinians entered Israel 15 million times through various crossings from Gaza and the West Bank in 2017, an increase from the 13 million in 2016. On average, over 60,000 people per day entered Israel for work, medical treatment, humanitarian assistance or commerce.
> 
> ------------------
> How an Israeli hospital took in Syrians and became the world leader in treating war wounds


God, you're such a fuckin' liar!

*Israel Bans Entry of Palestinian Medical Delegation into Gaza. Crime against Humanity*​


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> You see the dots but you can't connect them.  Hamas is at war with Israel and so when Hamas came control Gaza, rigorous security measures were needed.
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas wasn't at war with Israel.  Israel helped create Hamas.  They just refuse to be Israel's bitch, that's why they're not liked.
Click to expand...

Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, which has been at war with the Jews since they formed, before Israel became a State.

Continue to read your "Israel is evil" sources".

There is nothing new in your posts, against Israel.
 Rather unoriginal.
Total copycat of what all the others say.
Without spending one day in Gaza or the P. A.
Without knowing anything about Israel because you would not want to go there and see if for yourself, as so many others have done.

The 10,000 mile away critic.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Top Palestinian official donates to Israeli hospital that saved his life
> --------------
> 
> 15 million Palestinian crossings into Israel in 2017
> 
> According to the ministry, Palestinians entered Israel 15 million times through various crossings from Gaza and the West Bank in 2017, an increase from the 13 million in 2016. On average, over 60,000 people per day entered Israel for work, medical treatment, humanitarian assistance or commerce.
> 
> ------------------
> How an Israeli hospital took in Syrians and became the world leader in treating war wounds
> 
> 
> 
> God, you're such a fuckin' liar!
> 
> *Israel Bans Entry of Palestinian Medical Delegation into Gaza. Crime against Humanity*​
Click to expand...

If you stop going to all of these anti Israel sources, you may get somewhere, someday.


----------



## skye

palis are such a pain in the eye..............................all the Middle East know that


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Following the withdrawal of Israeli troops from Gaza in 2005, the terrorist organization Hamas emerged as the victor in the 2006 Palestinian elections.  Since the establishment of Hamas in the early 1990's, they have been known to Israel as violent antisemitic terrorists and have been classified by 7 countries as a terrorist organization. * After Hamas won the election Israel and "The Quartet on the Middle East" (US, Russia, UN, EU) imposed economic sanctions on Gaza, including the cessation of foreign aid to the Palestinian government, and restrictions on movement, imposed by Israel.  In order to lift these economic sanctions and movement restrictions, Hamas must: renounce violence against Israel, recognize Israel, and honor all previous agreeemnts between Israel and the Palestinian Authority.  *
> 
> Following the Battle of Gaza in June 2007 in which Hamas militarily defeated Fatah, *both Israel and Egypt *heavily tightened their respective border crossings, creating a "blockade".  This blockade includes a naval blockade.  So far Hamas has not conceeded to these stipulations, and the blockade is still in place.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Israel's "Blockade" of Gaza


Israel needs to renounce violence against Hamas.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> FFS.  In light of recent events?  This entirely one-sided point of view reeks of an inability to reason.  At best.


The occupation is the cause of all the violence.  End the occupation and you end the violence.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Of course they are.
> 
> Just like Jewish Voices for Peace.
> 
> Not very Jewish.  And not at all for Peace.


JVP kicks ass and has my 100% support.


----------



## skye

palis are a pain in the ass

troublesome  human beings

not one country in the Middle East wants them'

and with reason


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> And Egypt's blocade as well.
> 
> Never mind why the Egyptians are blockading Gaza, right?


Because Israel is telling them to.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, which has been at war with the Jews since they formed, before Israel became a State.
> 
> Continue to read your "Israel is evil" sources".
> 
> There is nothing new in your posts, against Israel.
> Rather unoriginal.
> Total copycat of what all the others say.
> Without spending one day in Gaza or the P. A.
> Without knowing anything about Israel because you would not want to go there and see if for yourself, as so many others have done.
> 
> The 10,000 mile away critic.


You don't have to be a chicken to know an egg.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> If you stop going to all of these anti Israel sources, you may get somewhere, someday.


Those are non-partisan websites as you continue to use the "TimesofIsrael".  Wow.  That's really non-partisan?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Egypt's blocade as well.
> 
> Never mind why the Egyptians are blockading Gaza, right?
> 
> 
> 
> Because Israel is telling them to.
Click to expand...


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Egypt's blocade as well.
> 
> Never mind why the Egyptians are blockading Gaza, right?
> 
> 
> 
> Because Israel is telling them to.
Click to expand...


----------



## rylah

Australian Prime Minister blames Hamas for Gaza deaths

Malcolm Turnbull has blamed Hamas after Israeli forces killed at least 58 people in Gaza after the US embassy opened in Jerusalem.

The Prime Minister said the loss of life was “tragic” but Hamas was to blame for pushing people to the border with Israel.

“Any loss of life like this is tragic in circumstances like this, but Hamas’ conduct is confrontational. They’re seeking to provoke the Israeli defence forces,”” Mr Turnbull told 3AW Radio.

“If they’re pushing people to the border in that context, in that conflict zone, you’re basically pushing people into circumstances where they are very likely to be shot at as Israel seeks to defend itself.”

In clashes that followed the US decision to move their embassy to the contested city, Palestinian Health Ministry officials said 58 protesters were killed on Monday on the Gaza border and over 2000 were injured.

The US has also blamed the Hamas group for being behind the conflict. “The responsibility for these tragic deaths rests squarely with Hamas … Israel has the right to defend itself,” deputy White House press secretary Raj Shah said.

Australia also joined France and Germany in urging restraint but Foreign Minister Julie Bishop said Israel had to protect its population and urged Palestinians to refrain from violence.

“We recognise that Israel has legitimate security concerns and needs to protect its population, and we call on Israel to be proportionate in its response and refrain from excessive use of force,” Ms Bishop said in a statement.


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> Australian Prime Minister blames Hamas for Gaza deaths
> 
> Malcolm Turnbull has blamed Hamas after Israeli forces killed at least 58 people in Gaza after the US embassy opened in Jerusalem.
> 
> The Prime Minister said the loss of life was “tragic” but Hamas was to blame for pushing people to the border with Israel.
> 
> “Any loss of life like this is tragic in circumstances like this, but Hamas’ conduct is confrontational. They’re seeking to provoke the Israeli defence forces,”” Mr Turnbull told 3AW Radio.
> 
> “If they’re pushing people to the border in that context, in that conflict zone, you’re basically pushing people into circumstances where they are very likely to be shot at as Israel seeks to defend itself.”
> 
> In clashes that followed the US decision to move their embassy to the contested city, Palestinian Health Ministry officials said 58 protesters were killed on Monday on the Gaza border and over 2000 were injured.
> 
> The US has also blamed the Hamas group for being behind the conflict. “The responsibility for these tragic deaths rests squarely with Hamas … Israel has the right to defend itself,” deputy White House press secretary Raj Shah said.
> 
> Australia also joined France and Germany in urging restraint but Foreign Minister Julie Bishop said Israel had to protect its population and urged Palestinians to refrain from violence.
> 
> “We recognise that Israel has legitimate security concerns and needs to protect its population, and we call on Israel to be proportionate in its response and refrain from excessive use of force,” Ms Bishop said in a statement.


Hamas isn't the ones pulling the trigger.

*Israel/OPT: Use of excessive force in Gaza an abhorrent violation of international law*​


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Australian Prime Minister blames Hamas for Gaza deaths
> 
> Malcolm Turnbull has blamed Hamas after Israeli forces killed at least 58 people in Gaza after the US embassy opened in Jerusalem.
> 
> The Prime Minister said the loss of life was “tragic” but Hamas was to blame for pushing people to the border with Israel.
> 
> “Any loss of life like this is tragic in circumstances like this, but Hamas’ conduct is confrontational. They’re seeking to provoke the Israeli defence forces,”” Mr Turnbull told 3AW Radio.
> 
> “If they’re pushing people to the border in that context, in that conflict zone, you’re basically pushing people into circumstances where they are very likely to be shot at as Israel seeks to defend itself.”
> 
> In clashes that followed the US decision to move their embassy to the contested city, Palestinian Health Ministry officials said 58 protesters were killed on Monday on the Gaza border and over 2000 were injured.
> 
> The US has also blamed the Hamas group for being behind the conflict. “The responsibility for these tragic deaths rests squarely with Hamas … Israel has the right to defend itself,” deputy White House press secretary Raj Shah said.
> 
> Australia also joined France and Germany in urging restraint but Foreign Minister Julie Bishop said Israel had to protect its population and urged Palestinians to refrain from violence.
> 
> “We recognise that Israel has legitimate security concerns and needs to protect its population, and we call on Israel to be proportionate in its response and refrain from excessive use of force,” Ms Bishop said in a statement.
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas isn't the ones pulling the trigger.
> 
> *Israel/OPT: Use of excessive force in Gaza an abhorrent violation of international law*​
Click to expand...

Yes they do pull the trigger, and incite the young to go and die together.

Just yesterday there was a report they try to hide now - that one of the killed in the clashes was the son of Hamas leader, and additional 3 militants.


----------



## Mindful

Palestine's got Talent.

Those Palestinians sure are a talented bunch.





WATCH: Palestine’s Got Talent!


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> Yes they do pull the trigger, and incite the young to go and die together.
> 
> Just yesterday there was a report they try to hide now - that one of the killed in the clashes was the son of Hamas leader, and additional 3 militants.


The only thing "inciting" the young, is Israel's inhuman occupation and blockade.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Islamic Jihad has published a death notice for three of the members of its Al Quds Brigades who were killed yesterday.

The one on the right is  Ahmed Adel Mousa Al-Shaer, who was 16 years old. Yes, at least one of the "children" killed yesterday was a member of a terror group.

Here we have photographic evidence that Gaza terror groups recruit children for terror. And that terror groups are hiding in the middle of the protests to prepare acts of terror.

And that Israel isn't killing people randomly.

(full article online )

Here are three of the "innocent civilians" killed yesterday, members of the Al Quds Brigades. One was 16 years old. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## dannyboys

Iranian backed Hamas terrorists are wearing burkas and hiding among the women and children so they can get close enough to attack the Israeli military.
These scum bags ALWAYS do this!
Hamas gets rid of all the inbreeds they have in abundance this way.
Daddy/the brothers and uncles rape the little girls and impregnate them and you end up with a scene from Deliverance throughout the Palestine camps.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shortly after 1 p.m., a team from Maglan, a special forces unit trained in operating behind enemy lines, was sent to the scene.

“There, eight armed terrorists began throwing pipe bombs and grenades at the troops and the fence,” the army says.

Surveillance footage from the clash shows the suspected terrorists hiding behind a pile of burning tires. As the IDF’s army jeeps pulled up, at least six explosives are seen being thrown toward the border.

“In order to drive them back from the fence, the troops used riot dispersal means. In response, the Hamas terror operatives opened fire at them,” the army says.

(full article online)

IDF reveals details of the Gaza border gunbattle with Hamas


----------



## Sixties Fan

The IDF and the Shin Bet have identified 24 terrorists so far among the rioters who were killed along the Gaza border Monday.

The majority of the fatalities belonged to the Hamas terrorist organization, while others belonged to Islamic Jihad.

58 people were killed when the demonstrations along the Gaza border turned violent Monday. *So far, Hamas has acknowledged that ten of the dead were members of its organization*, *and Islamic Jihad has acknowledged that three of the deceased were members of its organization.*

Approximately 400 demonstrators are currently gathered at several locations along the Gaza perimeter fence. No serious incidents have occurred yet today, the IDF stated.

(full article online)

24 terrorists identified among Gaza dead


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF forces recorded video documentation of a Hamas assault on the border fence in the northern Gaza Strip in which terrorists used explosive devices. Eight terrorists threw pipe bombs and grenades at the fence and the soldiers guarding the fence.

(full article online)

Watch: Hamas terrorists throw explosives during Gaza riots


----------



## Sixties Fan

The weekly demonstrations are called by their organizers the "Great Return March." They make it explicitly clear that the point of the riots is to storm the Gaza fence and enter Israel en masse, in an attempt to publicize the Palestinian "Right of Return" and flood Israel with millions of Palestinians, destroying the Jewish state.

Yet this joke of an NGO does not mention a word about this. Even the name of the riots, "Great Return March," is somehow missing in this "professional analysis.

No, the only reason that the "researchers" at Gisha can find for the riots is - Israeli restrictions on Gaza.  

" For more than 10 years, residents of Gaza have lived under excessively harsh restrictions on movement implemented through Israel’s closure of the Strip’s land, sea and air space."


Gisha answers the question of "What precipitated the current wave of protests in Gaza?" by taking pains not to mention what the protests are about. The explicit demands of the organizers, and of their Hamas sponsors, are not mentioned:

" Regardless of the political affiliation of the protestors, who organized the protest, or the agenda they wish to promote, international law prohibits the use of lethal force against civilians unless they participate directly in acts of hostility or pose a concrete risk to life, and even then, only as a last resort and only to the extent necessary to alleviate the risk"


This is not only deceptive - it is demeaning to Palestinians .The very group that claims to want to improve the lives of Gazans is telling their Western audience not to listen to what Gazans themselves say about the protests, but only listen to their own spin. The message being given is that Gazans cannot be trusted to define their own feelings and motivations. The good people at Gisha know Gazans better than Gazans know themselves, and letting Palestinians explain their own point of view would just muddy the crystal-clear anti-Israel waters that Gisha is trying to create.

(full article online)

Anti-Israel NGO @Gisha_Access has "FAQ" on "Great Return March" without mentioning the word "Return" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Friday at the tail end of that day’s mass “March of Return” protest, a group of some 200 Palestinians broke into the Gaza side of the crossing and set fire to the Strip’s only fuel terminal and a conveyor belt used for raw construction materials. Two conveyor belts which brought animal feed into Gaza were also wrecked, according to the deputy director of the crossing.

“The people who came to Kerem Shalom and destroyed the crossing, they didn’t go there by themselves. We know that Hamas sent them,” said the COGAT officer in a conference room in the Gaza Division’s headquarters in Re’im.

The official said that during the attack on Kerem Shalom, Israeli officials watched as rioters ran back and forth between the crossing and a Hamas position a few hundred meters away.

“Then we saw about 10 Hamas people standing at the gates of Kerem Shalom,” he said.

According to the officer, the Hamas members were wearing civilian clothes but directed the events with walkie-talkies, “giving orders — what to do, where to go.”



Israel's response?

A senior officer in the Israeli military’s liaison unit to the Palestinians told reporters on Sunday, "Me and my commanders are* breaking our heads trying to figure out how to get medicine into Gaza."*

Israel is trying to save lives in Gaza. Hamas is trying to end them.

Everyone with a brain can see this - but the media simply will not put it in those terms, instead implying that Israel is gleefully shooting unarmed Gaza protesters. And people are believing it because few media outlets have the guts to actually tell it like it is.

(full article online)

Israel cares about Gazan lives more than many Gazans do ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Times of Israel reports a sad story, if true:

 The Gaza Strip’s Hamas-run health ministry said Tuesday morning that a baby was among those killed during violent border clashes along the territory’s border with Israel the previous day, bringing the overall death toll in the day’s bloody events to 58.

The baby died from inhaling tear gas fired at Palestinian protesters, the health ministry said.

Eight-month-old Leila al-Ghandour was exposed to gas fired by Israeli forces east of Gaza City, it said. It was not immediately clear how close to the border fence Ghandour and her family were.It is entirely possible that Leila died from some other cause and the Hamas-run Health Ministry blamed Israeli actions because Hamas has been desperate to find a child to die at the protests that they can turn into another Mohammed al-Dura. Palestinians know the propaganda value of a dead child, mentioning their names constantly in articles and speeches years after their deaths, while you won't find Israeli leaders and media nowadays mentioning Shalhevet Pass, also eight months old, deliberately murdered in 2001 by a sniper's gunshot to her head while in her baby carriage.

Assuming  the baby indeed died from inhalation of tear gas, though, the fault is entirely Hamas - and her parents.

Who would knowingly take a baby to a war zone where hundreds of people have already been shot?

Who would knowingly take a baby to a place where one knows with 100% certainty that there will be tear gas?

Parents in the US are worried about when to first expose their children to cow's milk and peanuts (and even water!) at that age. At least one set of Gaza parents enthusiastically bring their baby to be exposed to tear gas.

No one in their right mind  -not Amnesty, not the EU - can blame Israel for using tear gas to keep people away from its border.

If anyone is to blame for this child's alleged death from tear gas, it is her parents.

Somehow, it seems certain that the narrative from the media will be far different. I doubt that any Western media outlet will say a negative word about the reckless parents - parents whose actions are every bit as reprehensible as those locking their kids in hot cars on a summer day. Such sick parenting is given a pass - because the West expects Palestinians to act like animals, and therefore when they reach that level there is no outrage.

This is a sick society and a sick media that enables it.

(full article online)

Israel cares about Gazan lives more than many Gazans do ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinians’ more sophisticated friends know what Hamas is all about. They understand that young men whipped into a frenzy by an organization that exists to destroy world Jewry, per its charter, aren’t exactly latter-day Freedom Riders.* But they think that the Palestinians can’t help themselves. While they expect Israel–a state encircled by hostile populations and threatened with nuclear extinction by the Iranian mullahs–to behave like Norway, of the Palestinians they have the most dismal, if any, expectations.*

Thus Eurasia Group President Ian Bremmer tweeted: “The Palestinians killed today knew Israeli Defense Forces would use lethal force in response to their demonstrations. It didn’t stop them. They felt hopeless.” The Mideast reporter Sulome Anderson echoed his sentiments: “Imagine the desperation it takes to walk into live gunfire from the Middle East’s most powerful fighting force, armed with nothing more than rocks & the occasional Molotov or grenade. Try to conceive of the circumstances that could drive so many human beings to such an act.”

Or maybe try to conceive of the poisonous power of Hamas’s anti-Semitic ideology and the Palestinians’ permanently aggrieved mentality, which has allowed the conflict to fester despite numerous peace offers from the Israeli side. There are desperate people all over the world who never translate their frustration into suicide bombing, stone throwing, border-rushing, and violent “Days of Rage.” It does the Palestinians no good to treat them as children entitled to tantrums, as permanent wards of the international community or, worst, as wild men bereft of reason. Then again, such highhanded pity isn’t really about helping the Palestinians so much as it is about flattering their Western friends.

(full article online)

The Revolt of Palestinians in Gaza Exposes Western Media Sympathies


----------



## toomuchtime_

Billo_Really said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure you are.  Israel isn't starving them, Hamas is.
> 
> 
> 
> It's Israel's blockade.  Israel decided to collectively punish everyone in Gaza.  You're even too pussy to take ownership over the shit things you do.
Click to expand...

The blockade is necessary because of Hamas' war against Israel, so whatever problems the blockade may cause are the result of Hamas' war.  That said, the Gazans simply are not starving.  What they lack is not food but the good sense to get rid of Hamas and the other terrorist groups so that the blockade would no longer be necessary.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Billo_Really said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> You see the dots but you can't connect them.  Hamas is at war with Israel and so when Hamas came control Gaza, rigorous security measures were needed.
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas wasn't at war with Israel.  Israel helped create Hamas.  They just refuse to be Israel's bitch, that's why they're not liked.
Click to expand...

That's not what Hamas says.  Hamas says it will capture all of Israel and to that end they continue to launch terrorist attacks against random Jews.  That's why they are not liked.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Sixties Fan said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure you are.  Israel isn't starving them, Hamas is.
> 
> 
> 
> It's Israel's blockade.  Israel decided to collectively punish everyone in Gaza.  You're even too pussy to take ownership over the shit things you do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And Egypt's blocade as well.
> 
> Never mind why the Egyptians are blockading Gaza, right?
Click to expand...

Correct, it's just the Jews he is upset with.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Galant believes that the basic problem in Gaza is that the Palestinian leadership has not invested in building a peaceful and prosperous future. “We disengage[d] from the Gaza Strip 12 years ago. Billions of dollars [have been] invested in the Gaza Strip. [The] result is all this money goes to Hamas leaders, rockets and to tunnels instead of creating greenhouses and factories.”

Ask how Israel can approach the situation in Gaza different, Galant said that it is in Israel’s interest to help the people of Gaza.

“We are willing to do anything to help the Palestinian population to have a better life and better standard of living for the Palestinians,” he emphasized. “It is a necessity and in Israel’s security interests.”

(full article online)

Former IDF commander: Hamas are ‘gangsters holding 2 million Palestinians as hostages’


----------



## Sixties Fan

(vide video online)

Hamas official on Gaza protests: ‘Peaceful resistance’ with ‘popular support’


----------



## Sixties Fan

“We are excited to storm and get inside,” a 23-year-old Gazan named Mohammed Mansoura, told the _Washington Post _yesterday_. “_When asked what he would do inside Israel,” the newspaper reported, “he said, ‘Whatever is possible, to kill, throw stones.'”

When Israel withdrew every last soldier and settler from the Gaza Strip in 2005, only the most hardened and bitter cynics predicted that the end of Israel’s occupation of 1.3 million Palestinians would bring even greater misery to Palestinians and Israelis alike. After all, the man who led the withdrawal, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, was hardly a naive peacenik. The only way things could possibly get worse in Gaza after an Israeli withdrawal, even sober-minded people reasoned, would be if the Palestinians themselves chose leaders who were determined to sacrifice the welfare of every single person living in Gaza to a hopeless yet continuing campaign of cross-border terror against Israel.

Absurd, right? Sadly, that is exactly what has happened, leading to devastating wars in 2009 and 2014, whose failure led in turn to the recent decision by Hamas to launch a series of human wave attacks against Israel proper. Since there is no state on earth that would allow its borders to be physically overrun by mobs including terrorists with explosives, the outcome of these attacks was clear: Hamas would lose.

(full article online)

Palestinians in Gaza Are Dying  for a Photo-Op


----------



## Sixties Fan

A Gaza health official cast doubt Tuesday on initial claims that an 8-month-old baby died from Israeli tear gas fired during mass protests on the Gaza border with Israel.

A Gazan doctor told the Associated Press that the baby, Layla Ghandour, had a preexisting medical condition and that he did not believe her death was caused by tear gas. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not allowed to disclose medical information to the media.

(full article online)

Gazan doctor, Israel cast doubts over Hamas claim infant died from tear gas


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> FFS.  In light of recent events?  This entirely one-sided point of view reeks of an inability to reason.  At best.
> 
> 
> 
> The occupation is the cause of all the violence.  End the occupation and you end the violence.
Click to expand...


Yes.  That is EXACTLY what Hamas and Fatah are saying.  The "cause" of the violence is the inviolable human right for the Jewish people -- just like all people -- to have self-determination, self-governance and sovereignty on their own ancestral territory.  If ONLY the Jewish people would give up that right -- the right to their history, their holy places, their defining peoplehood, their indigeneity, their wish not to be dhimmi but to control their own fate -- then there would be peace.  If only the Jewish people recognized that they are just white bread Europeans with no defining culture, no history, no language, no traditions, no holy places, no complex set of laws, no stories or myths, no deep sense of community.  If only the Jewish people recognized that they ceased to exist long ago.  If only they erased themselves. If only they would let themselves burn (as one Gazan interviewed called for today).  

Never.  Again.  Are we clear?


Now, since I know you believe in the "1967 borders" , you would have to admit that Gazans have NO RIGHT to the Israeli side of that line.  Tell the Gazans to keep out of Israel and away from the fence. 

IF they want the blockade to end then they just have to stop attacking Israel on Israel's side of the fence.  Easy peesy.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinian officials on Tuesday refused to allow trucks loaded with goods into the Gaza Strip through the Kerem Shalom Crossing, which Israel had reopened in the morning after rioters from the coastal enclave set fire to parts of the facility three times over the past month.

Shipments of medical supplies, food and diapers arrived at the crossing in the morning. But officials on the Palestinian side said they could only allow through the medical supplies and sent back 14 trucks full of food and diapers, The Times of Israel has learned.

(full article online)

Israel reopens Gaza crossing, but Palestinians turn back some trucks


----------



## Sixties Fan

Col. Kemp: "IDF is defending border as UK or any other soldiers would"


----------



## Sixties Fan

The media is a knowing accomplice in helping a terrorist group push out its propaganda. 

Here is a delightful video of one of those peaceful Palestinians caught on camera walking with crutches to the Israeli border fence. Miracle of miracles, he suddenly walks just fine.

(vide video online)

But no, the media is not falling for propaganda. The media has gone into this as a willful, knowing accomplice with Hamas, a terrorist group. The media has gotten played so much, the media knows exactly what is happening and the media is allowing it to happen. Many of those killed turned out to be directly working with Hamas, a terrorist group. It was that terrorist group that organized the storming of the border knowing people would get killed. It is the media passing by this story suggesting Israel has no other choice but to let people storm its border and oppose an embassy the media itself has a subtle editorial bias against.

There is no campaign to fool the media here. The campaign was waged long ago to get the media on the side of the Palestinians and their terrorist allies. Ever since, the media has just been doing their bidding.



(Full article online)

You Are Wrong.  The Media Is Not Falling for Hamas Propaganda - TheResurgent.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

So, who exactly is on the UN Human Rights Council? According to their website, the commission is comprised of “African States 15, Asian States 12, Eastern European States 5, Latin American & Caribbean States 11, Western Europe & Other States 10.”* The African group is chaired by the representative from Morocco*;* the Asian group is chaired by the representative from Saudi Arabia*; *the Eastern European group is chaired by the representative from Azerbaijan*. *All of these countries are effectively dictatorships.*

The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, al-Hussein, is a member of the Jordanian royal family who has spent the last several years attacking President Trump personally, using the Commission website to do it, and has called for the prosecution of Bush administration officials. He has called Jews living in East Jerusalem a “war crime.” The Human Rights Council has issued 135 critical resolutions from 2006 to 2016, and 50 percent were directed at Israel. 

The United Nations has long been a repository for anti-Israel and anti-Semitic sentiment. So it’s no shock that they’re upset at Israel for defending itself.

(full article online)

'The New York Times' Cites The United Nations To Condemn Israel. Here's What They're Not Telling You.


----------



## montelatici

Posting propaganda doesn't make your position any more credible.  The Israeli Jews are a murderous group of people, can't change that. That they feel that they have to be murderous to retain control over the millions of non-Jews they oppress, is no excuse.


----------



## Sixties Fan

montelatici said:


> Posting propaganda doesn't make your position any more credible.  The Israeli Jews are a murderous group of people, can't change that. That they feel that they have to be murderous to retain control over the millions of non-Jews they oppress, is no excuse.


Arabs in Israel are laughing at you right now.
Both Muslims and Christians.


----------



## montelatici

Sixties Fan said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Posting propaganda doesn't make your position any more credible.  The Israeli Jews are a murderous group of people, can't change that. That they feel that they have to be murderous to retain control over the millions of non-Jews they oppress, is no excuse.
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs in Israel are laughing at you right now.
> Both Muslims and Christians.
Click to expand...


Is that why they are going on strike. It's so funny when you make a fool of yourself. Yes, Israeli Arabs also believe that Israeli Jews are a murdersous group.

PALESTINIANS,* ISRAELI ARABS *TO TAKE PART IN GENERAL STRIKE ON TUESDAY

Palestinians, Israeli Arabs to take part in general strike on Tuesday


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Posting propaganda doesn't make your position any more credible.  The Israeli Jews are a murderous group of people, can't change that. That they feel that they have to be murderous to retain control over the millions of non-Jews they oppress, is no excuse.
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs in Israel are laughing at you right now.
> Both Muslims and Christians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is that why they are going on strike. It's so funny when you make a fool of yourself. Yes, Israeli Arabs also believe that Israeli Jews are a murdersous group.
> 
> PALESTINIANS,* ISRAELI ARABS *TO TAKE PART IN GENERAL STRIKE ON TUESDAY
> 
> Palestinians, Israeli Arabs to take part in general strike on Tuesday
Click to expand...

Jew haters always pretend they speak for the whole world ?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas Encourages Rioters on Israel-Gaza Fence to Kidnap Israelis


----------



## Billo_Really

toomuchtime_ said:


> The blockade is necessary because of Hamas' war against Israel, so whatever problems the blockade may cause are the result of Hamas' war.  That said, the Gazans simply are not starving.  What they lack is not food but the good sense to get rid of Hamas and the other terrorist groups so that the blockade would no longer be necessary.


Wrong!  Only Israel is at war.  It was Israel's decision to start the blockade because Israel thinks they can tell others what to do on their own property.  If you disagree, then why don't you come over to my house, mother-fucker, try to tell me what's what under my roof and see what happens next?


----------



## Billo_Really

toomuchtime_ said:


> That's not what Hamas says.  Hamas says it will capture all of Israel and to that end they continue to launch terrorist attacks against random Jews.  That's why they are not liked.


Where's the link?


----------



## Billo_Really

toomuchtime_ said:


> Correct, it's just the Jews he is upset with.


I've asked you why would I hate Jews and to date, you've been too pussy to answer.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Yes.  That is EXACTLY what Hamas and Fatah are saying.  The "cause" of the violence is the inviolable human right for the Jewish people -- just like all people -- to have self-determination, self-governance and sovereignty on their own ancestral territory.  If ONLY the Jewish people would give up that right -- the right to their history, their holy places, their defining peoplehood, their indigeneity, their wish not to be dhimmi but to control their own fate -- then there would be peace.  If only the Jewish people recognized that they are just white bread Europeans with no defining culture, no history, no language, no traditions, no holy places, no complex set of laws, no stories or myths, no deep sense of community.  If only the Jewish people recognized that they ceased to exist long ago.  If only they erased themselves. If only they would let themselves burn (as one Gazan interviewed called for today).
> 
> Never.  Again.  Are we clear?
> 
> 
> Now, since I know you believe in the "1967 borders" , you would have to admit that Gazans have NO RIGHT to the Israeli side of that line.  Tell the Gazans to keep out of Israel and away from the fence.
> 
> IF they want the blockade to end then they just have to stop attacking Israel on Israel's side of the fence.  Easy peesy.


You have no right holding onto land you seized in a war.

You have no right shooting unarmed Palestinians.

You have no right collectively punishing an entire population of people.

You have no right treating the Palestinians like garbage.

You have no right thinking you are above the law.

You have no right shooting people in wheel chairs, or shooting people holding up white flags, or using Palestinians as human shields. 

BTW, do you know what a "johnnie" is?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  That is EXACTLY what Hamas and Fatah are saying.  The "cause" of the violence is the inviolable human right for the Jewish people -- just like all people -- to have self-determination, self-governance and sovereignty on their own ancestral territory.  If ONLY the Jewish people would give up that right -- the right to their history, their holy places, their defining peoplehood, their indigeneity, their wish not to be dhimmi but to control their own fate -- then there would be peace.  If only the Jewish people recognized that they are just white bread Europeans with no defining culture, no history, no language, no traditions, no holy places, no complex set of laws, no stories or myths, no deep sense of community.  If only the Jewish people recognized that they ceased to exist long ago.  If only they erased themselves. If only they would let themselves burn (as one Gazan interviewed called for today).
> 
> Never.  Again.  Are we clear?
> 
> 
> Now, since I know you believe in the "1967 borders" , you would have to admit that Gazans have NO RIGHT to the Israeli side of that line.  Tell the Gazans to keep out of Israel and away from the fence.
> 
> IF they want the blockade to end then they just have to stop attacking Israel on Israel's side of the fence.  Easy peesy.
> 
> 
> 
> You have no right holding onto land you seized in a war.
> 
> You have no right shooting unarmed Palestinians.
> 
> You have no right collectively punishing an entire population of people.
> 
> You have no right treating the Palestinians like garbage.
> 
> You have no right thinking you are above the law.
> 
> You have no right shooting people in wheel chairs, or shooting people holding up white flags, or using Palestinians as human shields.
> 
> BTW, do you know what a "johnnie" is?
Click to expand...

You have no right to not pay attention to what is happening, fail to investigate and not care who is what.

You have no right to choose what you wish to believe.

You have no right not to know what Hamas does to its own people.

You have no right not to know that Hamas has always used its own people as human shields.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> You have no right holding onto land you seized in a war.



Hamas claims that the Jewish people have no right to sovereignty over ANY land.  That was my point.  

Israel holds no land belonging to Gaza.  It is Gaza attempting to breach Israel's land.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> You have no right to not pay attention to what is happening, fail to investigate and not care who is what.


That makes no sense.



Sixties Fan said:


> You have no right to choose what you wish to believe.


Bullshit!  I have every right in the world to believe whatever I fucking want to believe.  Who the fuck are you?  The "thought police"?  You think you can control how people think?  You are fucking "out there".



Sixties Fan said:


> You have no right not to know what Hamas does to its own people.


That was strange.



Sixties Fan said:


> You have no right not to know that Hamas has always used its own people as human shields.


That's a claim you cannot prove.

Do you know what a "johnnie" is?


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Hamas claims that the Jewish people have no right to sovereignty over ANY land.  That was my point.
> 
> Israel holds no land belonging to Gaza.  It is Gaza attempting to breach Israel's land.


I've explained what "effective control" is and you act like you don't know.  That's pretty disingenuous on your part.

Israel also holds the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights.  All territory you seized in the '67 war and it is all the territory you will not be allowed to keep.  We didn't let Germany keep Poland and we sure as hell won't let you keep that territory as well.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas says 10 of those killed by Israel yesterday belonged to Hamas-run Interior Ministry.

Khaled Abu Toameh (@KhaledAbuToameh) | Twitter


----------



## Sixties Fan

Posts plastered all over Facebook instructing protesters to bring guns, knives, infiltrate Israel en masse, invade nearby villages and kidnap Israelis. Special 'thanks' to @facebook community standards team for enabling this.

The Mossad (@TheMossadIL) | Twitter


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> I've explained what "effective control" is and you act like you don't know.  That's pretty disingenuous on your part.



I'll ask you the same question I asked Humanity , then.  

Why should Israel REDUCE her defenses in the face of a foreign government who is actively trying to breach her borders, with the express intent of removing her sovereignty over her land and killing her citizens?  

Please try to make sense here.  You AGREE that Israel holds sovereignty over her territory with respect to Gaza.  You AGREE that a nation has no right to try to remove sovereignty from another nation through force.  Why are you not condemning Gaza's attack on Israeli's sovereignty using violence, in the presence of children, in the strongest possible terms?


----------



## Sixties Fan

A young Palestinian man boasted to National Public Radio on Tuesday about putting swastikas on incendiary kites and flying them into Israel, saying that "Jews go crazy" when they see it and "we want to burn them."

NPR host Steve Inskeep reported live from the Gaza Strip after a wave of violence on Monday following mass violent demonstrations at the border fence with Israel. He spoke with a 19-year-old Gaza resident, who was holding a homemade white kite.

"This is a kite that's going to go to the Jews," the Palestinian said through a translator.

The incendiary kite, designed to catch fire, was decorated with "writing claiming Jerusalem for Palestinians" and with swastikas, the primary symbol of Nazism.

"Why do you put that on there?" Inskeep asked.

"The Jews go crazy for Hitler when they see it," the Gazan said.

"The Israelis know that people are flying kites with swastikas," Inskeep said. "They know this, and they use it to discredit you, to say this shows you're bad people. What do you think about that?"

"This is actually what we want them to know, that we want to burn them," he replied, according to Inskeep.

(full article online)

Gazan Boasts to NPR About Driving Israelis 'Crazy' by Putting Swastikas on Firebomb Kite: 'We Want to Burn Them'


----------



## Sixties Fan

The reality as reported in the Washington Post was quite different:

But the protests appeared to have a more violent edge than in previous weeks. *Some young men brought knives and fence cutters.* At a gathering point east of Gaza City, *organizers urged protesters over loudspeakers to burst through the fence*, telling them Israeli soldiers were fleeing their positions, even as they were reinforcing them.

. . .

While some said they would abide by official calls to keep the demonstrations peaceful, others talked about their enthusiasm to break into Israel and wreak havoc.

“We are excited to storm and get inside,” said 23-year-old Mohammed Mansoura. *When asked what he would do inside Israel, he said, “Whatever is possible, to kill, throw stones.”*

*Two other young men carried large knives and said they wanted to kill Jews on the other side of the fence.*

. . .

The vast majority of demonstrators were unarmed, but near a parking area, *a man pulled out an AK-47 and took aim at an Israeli drone dropping leaflets. He let off a stream of bullets into the air and brought it down.* Later, more gunfire was heard as Palestinian factions argued over who would keep the downed drown _[sic]_, onlookers said.


(full article online)

Does the Media Really Understand the Gaza Violence? | HonestReporting


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> I'll ask you the same question I asked Humanity , then.
> 
> Why should Israel REDUCE her defenses in the face of a foreign government who is actively trying to breach her borders, with the express intent of removing her sovereignty over her land and killing her citizens?
> 
> Please try to make sense here.  You AGREE that Israel holds sovereignty over her territory with respect to Gaza.  You AGREE that a nation has no right to try to remove sovereignty from another nation through force.  Why are you not condemning Gaza's attack on Israeli's sovereignty using violence, in the presence of children, in the strongest possible terms?


An occupational force cannot claim self defense.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll ask you the same question I asked Humanity , then.
> 
> Why should Israel REDUCE her defenses in the face of a foreign government who is actively trying to breach her borders, with the express intent of removing her sovereignty over her land and killing her citizens?
> 
> Please try to make sense here.  You AGREE that Israel holds sovereignty over her territory with respect to Gaza.  You AGREE that a nation has no right to try to remove sovereignty from another nation through force.  Why are you not condemning Gaza's attack on Israeli's sovereignty using violence, in the presence of children, in the strongest possible terms?
> 
> 
> 
> An occupational force cannot claim self defense.
Click to expand...



So, wait, what?!  Gaza and Palestine are permitted to take Israel's sovereign territory by force?


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> The reality as reported in the Washington Post was quite different:
> 
> But the protests appeared to have a more violent edge than in previous weeks. *Some young men brought knives and fence cutters.* At a gathering point east of Gaza City, *organizers urged protesters over loudspeakers to burst through the fence*, telling them Israeli soldiers were fleeing their positions, even as they were reinforcing them.
> 
> . . .
> 
> While some said they would abide by official calls to keep the demonstrations peaceful, others talked about their enthusiasm to break into Israel and wreak havoc.
> 
> “We are excited to storm and get inside,” said 23-year-old Mohammed Mansoura. *When asked what he would do inside Israel, he said, “Whatever is possible, to kill, throw stones.”*
> 
> *Two other young men carried large knives and said they wanted to kill Jews on the other side of the fence.*
> 
> . . .
> 
> The vast majority of demonstrators were unarmed, but near a parking area, *a man pulled out an AK-47 and took aim at an Israeli drone dropping leaflets. He let off a stream of bullets into the air and brought it down.* Later, more gunfire was heard as Palestinian factions argued over who would keep the downed drown _[sic]_, onlookers said.
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Does the Media Really Understand the Gaza Violence? | HonestReporting


Israel has always attacked peaceful protesters.

*Israeli forces attack peaceful crowds at Jerusalem holy site*​


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> So, wait, what?!  Gaza and Palestine are permitted to take Israel's sovereign territory by force?


Palestinians have every right in the world to resist the occupation of their land by a foreign force.  Stop playing word games.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, wait, what?!  Gaza and Palestine are permitted to take Israel's sovereign territory by force?
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians have every right in the world to resist the occupation of their land by a foreign force.  Stop playing word games.
Click to expand...


They have no right at all to cross a border with a sovereign nation while calling on removing sovereignty from that nation and harming her citizens.  That is called an invasion.  If they want to fight Israel on Gazan soil they can and should.  (Except there isn't any Israel on Gazan soil.)  If they want peace and to end the blockade its on them to cease their hostilities against Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, wait, what?!  Gaza and Palestine are permitted to take Israel's sovereign territory by force?
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians have every right in the world to resist the occupation of their land by a foreign force.  Stop playing word games.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They have no right at all to cross a border with a sovereign nation while calling on removing sovereignty from that nation and harming her citizens.  That is called an invasion.  If they want to fight Israel on Gazan soil they can and should.  (Except there isn't any Israel on Gazan soil.)  If they want peace and to end the blockade its on them to cease their hostilities against Israel.
Click to expand...

Billo assumes that European people invaded and are occupying what is now Israel.  Like so many others do.

To the German Nazis, all Jews in Europe were not Europeans.  Because they were not.  And told them to return home to Asia, Palestine.

Now, Jew haters want to believe that the Jews who founded Israel are nothing but European colonial invaders who took land from the "native Arab Palestinians".


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, wait, what?!  Gaza and Palestine are permitted to take Israel's sovereign territory by force?
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians have every right in the world to resist the occupation of their land by a foreign force.  Stop playing word games.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They have no right at all to cross a border with a sovereign nation while calling on removing sovereignty from that nation and harming her citizens.  That is called an invasion.  If they want to fight Israel on Gazan soil they can and should.  (Except there isn't any Israel on Gazan soil.)  If they want peace and to end the blockade its on them to cease their hostilities against Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Billo assumes that European people invaded and are occupying what is now Israel.  Like so many others do.
> 
> To the German Nazis, all Jews in Europe were not Europeans.  Because they were not.  And told them to return home to Asia, Palestine.
> 
> Now, Jew haters want to believe that the Jews who founded Israel are nothing but European colonial invaders who took land from the "native Arab Palestinians".
Click to expand...



Billo is a hypocrite who demands Israel not violate its "1967 borders" because you can't take land by force, while defending Gazans right to do exactly that.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Billo_Really said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> The blockade is necessary because of Hamas' war against Israel, so whatever problems the blockade may cause are the result of Hamas' war.  That said, the Gazans simply are not starving.  What they lack is not food but the good sense to get rid of Hamas and the other terrorist groups so that the blockade would no longer be necessary.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong!  Only Israel is at war.  It was Israel's decision to start the blockade because Israel thinks they can tell others what to do on their own property.  If you disagree, then why don't you come over to my house, mother-fucker, try to tell me what's what under my roof and see what happens next?
Click to expand...

Nope, Israel is responding to Hamas terrorism.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Billo_Really said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's not what Hamas says.  Hamas says it will capture all of Israel and to that end they continue to launch terrorist attacks against random Jews.  That's why they are not liked.
> 
> 
> 
> Where's the link?
Click to expand...

The Palestinian Islamist group Hamas will remove a call for Israel's destruction and drop its association with the Muslim Brotherhood in a new policy document to be issued on Monday, Gulf Arab sources said.



Hamas's move appears aimed at improving relations with Gulf Arab states and Egypt, which label the Brotherhood as a terrorist organization, as well as with Western countries, many of which classify Hamas as a terrorist group over its hostility to Israel.

Hamas will no longer call for the destruction of Israel, stop associating with Muslim Brotherhood

So it wasn't until last year Hamas began to hedge on its pledge to capture all of Israel and then only because it had no support among the Sunni Arab nations.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Billo_Really said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Correct, it's just the Jews he is upset with.
> 
> 
> 
> I've asked you why would I hate Jews and to date, you've been too pussy to answer.
Click to expand...

You hate Jews because you clearly have a mental disorder.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Weapons of Hamas


----------



## Sixties Fan

Tamika Mallory Thinks Hamas Use of Human Shields Can be Viewed as “Bravery”


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel transfers medical aid to Gaza


----------



## Hollie

_Peaceful Inner Strugglers_™️ haven't been very peaceful at the 
Peaceful Tire Burning Riots.

This most recent collection of gee-had failures involves quite a list of destruction and mayhem that oddly, seems to occur so very often when _Peaceful Inner Strugglers_™️ assemble into riotous mobs. 

There is an interesting timeline of gee-had events at the link. All the islamo-goodness one expects when retrogrades gather. 

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/eye...-demonstrations-the-complete-list/2018/05/15/

The IDF has issued a list of events that took place during Monday’s violent riots, which serves as an explanation as to why so many “innocents” were killed on Monday. Naturally, there were no innocents during Monday’s clashes. It should be noted that the IDF air and artillery attacks on Hamas positions mentioned here were efforts to thwart violent attacks from inside the Strip.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> They have no right at all to cross a border with a sovereign nation while calling on removing sovereignty from that nation and harming her citizens.  That is called an invasion.  If they want to fight Israel on Gazan soil they can and should.  (Except there isn't any Israel on Gazan soil.)  If they want peace and to end the blockade its on them to cease their hostilities against Israel.


Spoken like a true Israeli coward; not taking responsibility for anything you do.  The blockade is on you.  That is your decision.  Fucking own it!

Stop talking about sovereignty.  You don't give a shit about sovereignty.  You shoot Palestinians when they fish.  You shoot them when they farm.  You shoot them when they protest.  You shoot journalists when they report on the protest.  You do everything in your power to make the Palestinians life unbearable and then, like a true lying coward, you expect people to think you're the victim? 

You're the aggressor.  You're the one who doesn't want peace.  

You don't deserve a country!


----------



## Billo_Really

toomuchtime_ said:


> You hate Jews because you clearly have a mental disorder.


I ask you again, why would I hate Jews?

Why can't you answer that question?


----------



## toomuchtime_

Billo_Really said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> You hate Jews because you clearly have a mental disorder.
> 
> 
> 
> I ask you again, why would I hate Jews?
> 
> Why can't you answer that question?
Click to expand...

I answered your question.  Because you are crazy.  Anyone who has read your posts knows you're crazy.  I don't know what made you crazy, but clearly you are.


----------



## Sixties Fan

11:30 AM: Mass run on the border of hundreds of rioters in the northern Gaza Strip, including climbing the fence at several points.

12:53 PM: Five pipe bombs were detonated in the northern Gaza Strip.

12:58 PM: An explosive device was detonated in the northern Gaza Strip.

1:15 PM: IDF prevented laying of explosive charges by a 4-6 member terrorist cell that opened fire at an IDF force in the southern Gaza Strip.

1:30 PM: Shooting at the IDF forces in the northern Gaza Strip.

1:45 PM: Shooting at IDF forces in the northern Gaza Strip (eight terrorists), under the auspices of disturbances. The forces responded with fire.

1:50 PM: Israeli aircraft attack Hamas’ position in the northern Gaza Strip.

(full article online)

Hamas’ ‘Peaceful’ Demonstrations, the Complete List


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Billo assumes that European people invaded and are occupying what is now Israel.  Like so many others do.


The Zionist migration was real.  It actually happened.  You can't re-write history.



Sixties Fan said:


> To the German Nazis, all Jews in Europe were not Europeans.  Because they were not.  And told them to return home to Asia, Palestine.


And here we are 70 years later and Israeli's are now the new Nazis and the Palestinians are the new Jews.



Sixties Fan said:


> Now, Jew haters want to believe that the Jews who founded Israel are nothing but European colonial invaders who took land from the "native Arab Palestinians".


That is the consensus of the world community.  That is what every nation on the planet thinks. 

From 1948 - 2017, there are 183 UN resolutions on Israel.

Here's just a few of them:


_July 4, 1967: Resolution 2253 (ES-V): Condemns Israel's measures to change the status of Jerusalem as invalid._
_December 11, 1969: Resolution 2546: Condemns Israeli "violations of human rights and fundamental freedoms" in the occupied territories._
_November 29, 1974: Resolution 3246: Affirms the legitimacy of armed resistance by oppressed peoples in pursuit of the right to self-determination, and condemns governments which do not support that right._
_December 2, 1977: Resolution 32/40: Reaffirms the "inalienable rights of the Palestinian people", including the right to national sovereignty and the right of return._
_October 29, 1986: Resolution 41/12: Calling Israel to place its nuclear facilities under supervision of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA)._
_March 29: Resolution 66/225: Exploitation of natural resources._

In addition, there are 226 UN Security Counsel resolutions on Israel.

No country on the planet, has done more shit (since 1948) than Israel.

You're not the victim!


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> You don't deserve a country!



Interesting.  Objectively, what does one DO to _deserve_ a country?  (Or deserve having one destroyed, as you seem to be suggesting here?)

Also interesting that you vehemently support Arab Palestinian's right to sovereignty within certain borders but reject Israel's right to the same.  The "1967 borders" exist for both peoples and both nations, do they not?  Or are they just "suggestions" for some?


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Billo is a hypocrite who demands Israel not violate its "1967 borders" because you can't take land by force, while defending Gazans right to do exactly that.


And you're a fucking liar, because that is not what I said.


----------



## Billo_Really

toomuchtime_ said:


> Nope, Israel is responding to Hamas terrorism.


That's the big Zionist lie you desperately want people to believe.


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF releases details of how it prevented a Hamas border crossing from Gaza


----------



## Billo_Really

toomuchtime_ said:


> The Palestinian Islamist group Hamas will remove a call for Israel's destruction and drop its association with the Muslim Brotherhood in a new policy document to be issued on Monday, Gulf Arab sources said.
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas's move appears aimed at improving relations with Gulf Arab states and Egypt, which label the Brotherhood as a terrorist organization, as well as with Western countries, many of which classify Hamas as a terrorist group over its hostility to Israel.
> 
> Hamas will no longer call for the destruction of Israel, stop associating with Muslim Brotherhood
> 
> So it wasn't until last year Hamas began to hedge on its pledge to capture all of Israel and then only because it had no support among the Sunni Arab nations.


From your link...

_Hamas has fought three wars with Israel since 2007 and has carried out hundreds of armed attacks in Israel and in Israeli-occupied territories since it was founded three decades ago.
_​Funny how no one wants to talk about all the Israeli attacks that preceded Hamas.  The rockets didn't start until 2001.  34 years after the occupation began.


----------



## Billo_Really

toomuchtime_ said:


> I answered your question.  Because you are crazy.  Anyone who has read your posts knows you're crazy.  I don't know what made you crazy, but clearly you are.


I didn't ask you why would you think I was crazy?

I asked you, why would I hate Jews?

You have not answered this basic and simple question.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Interesting.  Objectively, what does one DO to _deserve_ a country?


Obeying international law.  Respecting human rights.  Honoring the Palestinians right to self determination.  Living like the indigenous Palestinian-Jews, who got along with their Arab neighbors.  Not being an apartheid nation.



Shusha said:


> (Or deserve having one destroyed, as you seem to be suggesting here?)


Again, that is not what I said.  Or even suggested.



Shusha said:


> Also interesting that you vehemently support Arab Palestinian's right to sovereignty within certain borders but reject Israel's right to the same.


Palestinians have the right to self determination without interference from Israel.  And still again, I have said nothing in regards to Israeli sovereignty.  I have not commented on it.  Nor have I inferred anything in regards to it. So why do you keep insisting that is what I said?



Shusha said:


> The "1967 borders" exist for both peoples and both nations, do they not?  Or are they just "suggestions" for some?


The '67 borders are the internationally recognized borders between the two groups.  You seized land in the '67 war.  You cannot hold onto land seized in a war.  That is like saying it is okay for Germany to annex Poland.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Billo_Really said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> I answered your question.  Because you are crazy.  Anyone who has read your posts knows you're crazy.  I don't know what made you crazy, but clearly you are.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't ask you why would you think I was crazy?
> 
> I asked you, why would I hate Jews?
> 
> You have not answered this basic and simple question.
Click to expand...

You see, with every post you supply more evidence of how crazy you are.  You asked why you would hate Jews and I have repeated that because you are crazy and then you ask the same question again as if I hadn't already answered.  Clear evidence of cognitive dysfunction.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Obeying international law.  Respecting human rights.  Honoring the ... right to self determination.  ... got along with ... neighbors.  Not being an apartheid nation.



Good list.  You deserve to be a nation by obeying international law, respecting human rights, honoring the rights of self-determination to other groups, getting along with neighbors, not being apartheid. 

Israel has all that covered.  Gaza not so much.  For example, how is trying to breach an international border "obeying international law"?  How is having not a single Jew in your territory "not being apartheid"?  How is calling for the murder of Jews "respecting human rights"?  How is demanding to march through a foreign nation ripping the hearts out of its citizens "honoring the right to self-determination"?  How is calling for the destruction of your neighbor's State "getting along with neighbors". 

Seems to me that Gaza isn't at all deserving of being a country.  Oh look, it isn't. 



> Palestinians have the right to self determination without interference from Israel.


Oh look we agree!  Also Israelis (the Jewish people) have the right to self-determination without interference from Gaza in the form of violence directed toward it and attempts at breaching its border. 



> The '67 borders are the internationally recognized borders between the two groups.



Actually, they are SO not.  They are dissolved Armistice Lines from a settled war between States.  But if you believe that they ARE then you must also agree that Gazans have no right to attempt to breach them.  Period.


----------



## theliq

Shusha said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obeying international law.  Respecting human rights.  Honoring the ... right to self determination.  ... got along with ... neighbors.  Not being an apartheid nation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good list.  You deserve to be a nation by obeying international law, respecting human rights, honoring the rights of self-determination to other groups, getting along with neighbors, not being apartheid.
> 
> Israel has all that covered.  Gaza not so much.  For example, how is trying to breach an international border "obeying international law"?  How is having not a single Jew in your territory "not being apartheid"?  How is calling for the murder of Jews "respecting human rights"?  How is demanding to march through a foreign nation ripping the hearts out of its citizens "honoring the right to self-determination"?  How is calling for the destruction of your neighbor's State "getting along with neighbors".
> 
> Seems to me that Gaza isn't at all deserving of being a country.  Oh look, it isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians have the right to self determination without interference from Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh look we agree!  Also Israelis (the Jewish people) have the right to self-determination without interference from Gaza in the form of violence directed toward it and attempts at breaching its border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The '67 borders are the internationally recognized borders between the two groups.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, they are SO not.  They are dissolved Armistice Lines from a settled war between States.  But if you believe that they ARE then you must also agree that Gazans have no right to attempt to breach them.  Period.
Click to expand...

They Didn't but you Bastards Murdered 62 and maimed 2507...It is like the USA opening fire on Mexicans on their border


Zionists are Terrorist FILTH......FULL STOP.....none of your bleatings can prove otherwise......


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obeying international law.  Respecting human rights.  Honoring the ... right to self determination.  ... got along with ... neighbors.  Not being an apartheid nation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good list.  You deserve to be a nation by obeying international law, respecting human rights, honoring the rights of self-determination to other groups, getting along with neighbors, not being apartheid.
> 
> Israel has all that covered.  Gaza not so much.  For example, how is trying to breach an international border "obeying international law"?  How is having not a single Jew in your territory "not being apartheid"?  How is calling for the murder of Jews "respecting human rights"?  How is demanding to march through a foreign nation ripping the hearts out of its citizens "honoring the right to self-determination"?  How is calling for the destruction of your neighbor's State "getting along with neighbors".
> 
> Seems to me that Gaza isn't at all deserving of being a country.  Oh look, it isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians have the right to self determination without interference from Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh look we agree!  Also Israelis (the Jewish people) have the right to self-determination without interference from Gaza in the form of violence directed toward it and attempts at breaching its border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The '67 borders are the internationally recognized borders between the two groups.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, they are SO not.  They are dissolved Armistice Lines from a settled war between States.  But if you believe that they ARE then you must also agree that Gazans have no right to attempt to breach them.  Period.
Click to expand...

The Palestinians have never breached a border. Neither did the "five invading armies."


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obeying international law.  Respecting human rights.  Honoring the ... right to self determination.  ... got along with ... neighbors.  Not being an apartheid nation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good list.  You deserve to be a nation by obeying international law, respecting human rights, honoring the rights of self-determination to other groups, getting along with neighbors, not being apartheid.
> 
> Israel has all that covered.  Gaza not so much.  For example, how is trying to breach an international border "obeying international law"?  How is having not a single Jew in your territory "not being apartheid"?  How is calling for the murder of Jews "respecting human rights"?  How is demanding to march through a foreign nation ripping the hearts out of its citizens "honoring the right to self-determination"?  How is calling for the destruction of your neighbor's State "getting along with neighbors".
> 
> Seems to me that Gaza isn't at all deserving of being a country.  Oh look, it isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians have the right to self determination without interference from Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh look we agree!  Also Israelis (the Jewish people) have the right to self-determination without interference from Gaza in the form of violence directed toward it and attempts at breaching its border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The '67 borders are the internationally recognized borders between the two groups.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, they are SO not.  They are dissolved Armistice Lines from a settled war between States.  But if you believe that they ARE then you must also agree that Gazans have no right to attempt to breach them.  Period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have never breached a border. Neither did the "five invading armies."
Click to expand...


Indeed, the invading muhammedan armies that suffered humiliating losses after crossing the frontier on their Jew killing gee-had?

Indeed, you mean those invading armies?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obeying international law.  Respecting human rights.  Honoring the ... right to self determination.  ... got along with ... neighbors.  Not being an apartheid nation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good list.  You deserve to be a nation by obeying international law, respecting human rights, honoring the rights of self-determination to other groups, getting along with neighbors, not being apartheid.
> 
> Israel has all that covered.  Gaza not so much.  For example, how is trying to breach an international border "obeying international law"?  How is having not a single Jew in your territory "not being apartheid"?  How is calling for the murder of Jews "respecting human rights"?  How is demanding to march through a foreign nation ripping the hearts out of its citizens "honoring the right to self-determination"?  How is calling for the destruction of your neighbor's State "getting along with neighbors".
> 
> Seems to me that Gaza isn't at all deserving of being a country.  Oh look, it isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians have the right to self determination without interference from Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh look we agree!  Also Israelis (the Jewish people) have the right to self-determination without interference from Gaza in the form of violence directed toward it and attempts at breaching its border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The '67 borders are the internationally recognized borders between the two groups.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, they are SO not.  They are dissolved Armistice Lines from a settled war between States.  But if you believe that they ARE then you must also agree that Gazans have no right to attempt to breach them.  Period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have never breached a border. Neither did the "five invading armies."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, the invading muhammedan armies that suffered humiliating losses after crossing the frontier on their Jew killing gee-had?
> 
> Indeed, you mean those invading armies?
Click to expand...

They never attacked Israel.

BTW, they did not lose either.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obeying international law.  Respecting human rights.  Honoring the ... right to self determination.  ... got along with ... neighbors.  Not being an apartheid nation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good list.  You deserve to be a nation by obeying international law, respecting human rights, honoring the rights of self-determination to other groups, getting along with neighbors, not being apartheid.
> 
> Israel has all that covered.  Gaza not so much.  For example, how is trying to breach an international border "obeying international law"?  How is having not a single Jew in your territory "not being apartheid"?  How is calling for the murder of Jews "respecting human rights"?  How is demanding to march through a foreign nation ripping the hearts out of its citizens "honoring the right to self-determination"?  How is calling for the destruction of your neighbor's State "getting along with neighbors".
> 
> Seems to me that Gaza isn't at all deserving of being a country.  Oh look, it isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians have the right to self determination without interference from Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh look we agree!  Also Israelis (the Jewish people) have the right to self-determination without interference from Gaza in the form of violence directed toward it and attempts at breaching its border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The '67 borders are the internationally recognized borders between the two groups.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, they are SO not.  They are dissolved Armistice Lines from a settled war between States.  But if you believe that they ARE then you must also agree that Gazans have no right to attempt to breach them.  Period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have never breached a border. Neither did the "five invading armies."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, the invading muhammedan armies that suffered humiliating losses after crossing the frontier on their Jew killing gee-had?
> 
> Indeed, you mean those invading armies?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They never attacked Israel.
> 
> BTW, they did not lose either.
Click to expand...


Indeed, they attacked Israel and they indeed lost.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obeying international law.  Respecting human rights.  Honoring the ... right to self determination.  ... got along with ... neighbors.  Not being an apartheid nation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good list.  You deserve to be a nation by obeying international law, respecting human rights, honoring the rights of self-determination to other groups, getting along with neighbors, not being apartheid.
> 
> Israel has all that covered.  Gaza not so much.  For example, how is trying to breach an international border "obeying international law"?  How is having not a single Jew in your territory "not being apartheid"?  How is calling for the murder of Jews "respecting human rights"?  How is demanding to march through a foreign nation ripping the hearts out of its citizens "honoring the right to self-determination"?  How is calling for the destruction of your neighbor's State "getting along with neighbors".
> 
> Seems to me that Gaza isn't at all deserving of being a country.  Oh look, it isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians have the right to self determination without interference from Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh look we agree!  Also Israelis (the Jewish people) have the right to self-determination without interference from Gaza in the form of violence directed toward it and attempts at breaching its border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The '67 borders are the internationally recognized borders between the two groups.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, they are SO not.  They are dissolved Armistice Lines from a settled war between States.  But if you believe that they ARE then you must also agree that Gazans have no right to attempt to breach them.  Period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have never breached a border. Neither did the "five invading armies."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, the invading muhammedan armies that suffered humiliating losses after crossing the frontier on their Jew killing gee-had?
> 
> Indeed, you mean those invading armies?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They never attacked Israel.
> 
> BTW, they did not lose either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, they attacked Israel and they indeed lost.
Click to expand...

Wrong and wrong.

You need to get off of that Israel propaganda crap.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good list.  You deserve to be a nation by obeying international law, respecting human rights, honoring the rights of self-determination to other groups, getting along with neighbors, not being apartheid.
> 
> Israel has all that covered.  Gaza not so much.  For example, how is trying to breach an international border "obeying international law"?  How is having not a single Jew in your territory "not being apartheid"?  How is calling for the murder of Jews "respecting human rights"?  How is demanding to march through a foreign nation ripping the hearts out of its citizens "honoring the right to self-determination"?  How is calling for the destruction of your neighbor's State "getting along with neighbors".
> 
> Seems to me that Gaza isn't at all deserving of being a country.  Oh look, it isn't.
> 
> Oh look we agree!  Also Israelis (the Jewish people) have the right to self-determination without interference from Gaza in the form of violence directed toward it and attempts at breaching its border.
> 
> Actually, they are SO not.  They are dissolved Armistice Lines from a settled war between States.  But if you believe that they ARE then you must also agree that Gazans have no right to attempt to breach them.  Period.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never breached a border. Neither did the "five invading armies."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, the invading muhammedan armies that suffered humiliating losses after crossing the frontier on their Jew killing gee-had?
> 
> Indeed, you mean those invading armies?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They never attacked Israel.
> 
> BTW, they did not lose either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, they attacked Israel and they indeed lost.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong and wrong.
> 
> You need to get off of that Israel propaganda crap.
Click to expand...

Actually, I'm correct. You need to learn history.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

(vide video online)


The Truth of the Gaza Violence and IDF Restraint from an IDF Officer Who is Serving There


----------



## Sixties Fan

I noted on Twitter how staged this photo was. A person, presumably running to get medical help for his injured friend, stops to allow a photographer to take his picture.

Others noticed that this photo may have been much more staged than I realized. The "injured" person was posed to resemble the Pieta (specifically Michelangelo's Pieta), the famous artwork that shows the Virgin Mary holding Jesus' body.





(full article online)

#Pallywood: The Gaza Pieta ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

I'm writing this post for my good friends- my moral, humane friends, and for all those who are concerned and angry over today's deaths and injuries on the border with Gaza.

Regarding Israel's exodus from Egypt, when the Egyptian army drowned in the Red Sea just before overtaking the Israelites – our sages say that God scolded the angels and prevented them from singing and rejoicing, saying “my creations are drowning in the sea and you are singing?!”

I write these words with great caution, and from a sense of mission. I can understand and identify with all of those good and moral Zionists who fear that the many Palestinian victims may be our fault, the result of mistakes made by our side.

I’m writing because I am one of the few who was there – in uniform, in the reserves, but I was there. Yes, right there on the fence where the demonstrations are happening. It was last Friday – but I saw it with my own eyes; I was on our side but I could see and hear and understand everything. I want to testify from my firsthand knowledge, not a theoretical point of view. Because I was there.

I want to testify that what I saw and heard was a tremendous, supreme effort from our side, to prevent in every possible way Palestinian deaths and injuries.

Of course, the primary mission was to prevent hundreds of thousands of Gazans from infiltrating into our territory. That kind of invasion would be perilous, mortally dangerous to the nearby communities, would permit terrorists disguised as civilians to enter our kibbutzim and moshavim, and would leave us with no choice but to target every single infiltrator.

That’s why our soldiers were directed to prevent infiltration – in a variety of ways, only using live ammunition as a last resort. The IDF employs many creative means of reducing friction with Gazans and uses numerous methods, most of which are not made public, to prevent them from reaching the fence.

In addition, over the last few weeks there have been serious efforts to save the lives of children and civilians who have been pushed to the front lines by the Hamas – who are trying to hide behind them in order to infiltrate and attack Israel.

(full letter online)

An Israeli soldier tells the truth about what happens at the Gaza border ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never breached a border. Neither did the "five invading armies."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the invading muhammedan armies that suffered humiliating losses after crossing the frontier on their Jew killing gee-had?
> 
> Indeed, you mean those invading armies?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They never attacked Israel.
> 
> BTW, they did not lose either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, they attacked Israel and they indeed lost.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong and wrong.
> 
> You need to get off of that Israel propaganda crap.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, I'm correct. You need to learn history.
Click to expand...

Post a 1948 map of Israel then we can discuss where those 5 armies entered Israel.

An armistice was called by the UN Security Council. Nobody won or lost that war.

I await your duck.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the invading muhammedan armies that suffered humiliating losses after crossing the frontier on their Jew killing gee-had?
> 
> Indeed, you mean those invading armies?
> 
> 
> 
> They never attacked Israel.
> 
> BTW, they did not lose either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, they attacked Israel and they indeed lost.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong and wrong.
> 
> You need to get off of that Israel propaganda crap.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, I'm correct. You need to learn history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Post a 1948 map of Israel then we can discuss where those 5 armies entered Israel.
> 
> An armistice was called by the UN Security Council. Nobody won or lost that war.
> 
> I await your duck.
Click to expand...


The whole of the land under the previous rule of the mandate.
When did Jews ever lose sovereignty over the land?

Israel is the only one who came into agreements with neighbors based on those borders, no one else.
 It's same map You claim belongs to Arabs, after they've got a bigger chunk of it in the East Bank.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They never attacked Israel.
> 
> BTW, they did not lose either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, they attacked Israel and they indeed lost.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong and wrong.
> 
> You need to get off of that Israel propaganda crap.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, I'm correct. You need to learn history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Post a 1948 map of Israel then we can discuss where those 5 armies entered Israel.
> 
> An armistice was called by the UN Security Council. Nobody won or lost that war.
> 
> I await your duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The whole of the land under the previous rule of the mandate.
> When did Jews ever lose sovereignty over the land?
> 
> Israel is the only one who came into agreements with neighbors based on those borders, no one else.
> It's same map You claim belongs to Arabs, after they've got a bigger chunk of it in the East Bank.
Click to expand...

Nice duck.

When did Jews ever gain sovereignty over the land?


----------



## Sixties Fan

The article also notes that Abu Luli closed his Facebook account shortly before the Monday riots.

Mu'tasim may not have been a member of Hamas, but he was just as much a terrorist. He was manipulated by Hamas and other incitement to want to be killed - and he was going to keep going until he got his wish.

The Western media is not going to bother to tell the story of Mu'tasim Abu Lili. But the Arabic media is anxious to. Because they want to encourage more people to act like him.

(full article online)

This Gaza teen specifically planned to be "martyred" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Al Aqsa Voice quotes Hamas official  Dr. Salah Bardawil as saying "50 Hamas martyrs  rose [to paradise] during the million man march of return on 14/05/2018."

This sounds pretty damning.

Hopefully some reporters will follow up on this. Oh, sorry - the meme of innocent civilians is already set in stone, and no reporter wants to admit that they were wrong.

That would damage their credibility!

Hamas says there were "50 Hamas martyrs" on Monday ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Notably the BBC – which has completely ignored two previous incidents of large-scale vandalism at the Kerem Shalom crossing during ‘Great Return March’ riots – likewise ignored a third incidenton May 14th and readers of this article were not told that leaflets warning participants to stay away from the border fence were distributed by the IDF before the rioting began.

Readers were told that:

“Israel says the protests are aimed at breaching the border and attacking Israeli communities nearby.”

They were not informed that – as noted above – Hamas says the exact same.

“Hamas’s leader in Gaza said Thursday he hopes to see hundreds of thousands of Palestinians breach the border fence from Gaza into Israel at next week’s protests to coincide with the US embassy’s move to Jerusalem.”

There was however one welcome innovation in this article. As we have recorded over the past few weeks, previous BBC reports have repeatedly failed to clarify to audiences that the casualty figures from “health officials” that they quoted were in fact provided by Hamas. Readers of this latest report found the following:

“The health ministry, run by Hamas, said children were among those killed.” [emphasis added]

(full article online)

BBC News website coverage of May 14 Gaza rioting


----------



## Sixties Fan

As Gaza hospitals suffer shortages, Hamas refuses Israeli medical aid


----------



## Sixties Fan

There are two discernible reasons for the dramatic switch from war to peace of the past 24 hours over in Gaza. *First,* as was proven in the summer of 2014, the Israeli secret to winning battles with Hamas is by inflicting overwhelming casualties. Hamas has a breaking point, and on Monday it turned out to be 62 dead Gazans and an estimated one to two thousand injured. That was the breaking point for the local medical systems – the point where a frightened and angry populace might turn on its masters. So Hamas suspended the carnage it had so masterfully encouraged only a few hours earlier.

*The other reason* was the open threat Israel delivered to Hamas through the Egyptian Intelligence, that if the riots persist, Israeli assassination teams will start hunting down the Hamas leadership. Unlike the Hamas promises about taking back Israel, this is not an idle threat.

*There’s a third reason*, which is that Arabs around the Middle East have stopped caring about the plight of the “Palestinians.” Their emotions have been dulled, and, frankly, for the viewers of Arab television stations who have been bombarded for eight years with daily, often live, media coverage of mass killings and terrible suffering in many of the countries that used to be part of the “Arab Spring” – 62 dead in Gaza, who brought this on themselves in the first place, aren’t so impressive.

(full article online)

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/eye...for-fear-of-direct-assassinations/2018/05/16/


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, they attacked Israel and they indeed lost.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong and wrong.
> 
> You need to get off of that Israel propaganda crap.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, I'm correct. You need to learn history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Post a 1948 map of Israel then we can discuss where those 5 armies entered Israel.
> 
> An armistice was called by the UN Security Council. Nobody won or lost that war.
> 
> I await your duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The whole of the land under the previous rule of the mandate.
> When did Jews ever lose sovereignty over the land?
> 
> Israel is the only one who came into agreements with neighbors based on those borders, no one else.
> It's same map You claim belongs to Arabs, after they've got a bigger chunk of it in the East Bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> When did Jews ever gain sovereignty over the land?
Click to expand...


Nice duck. The Jewish state is defending its sovereign territory now in the face of the Islamist gee-had.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong and wrong.
> 
> You need to get off of that Israel propaganda crap.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I'm correct. You need to learn history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Post a 1948 map of Israel then we can discuss where those 5 armies entered Israel.
> 
> An armistice was called by the UN Security Council. Nobody won or lost that war.
> 
> I await your duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The whole of the land under the previous rule of the mandate.
> When did Jews ever lose sovereignty over the land?
> 
> Israel is the only one who came into agreements with neighbors based on those borders, no one else.
> It's same map You claim belongs to Arabs, after they've got a bigger chunk of it in the East Bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> When did Jews ever gain sovereignty over the land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice duck. The Jewish state is defending its sovereign territory now in the face of the Islamist gee-had.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I'm correct. You need to learn history.
> 
> 
> 
> Post a 1948 map of Israel then we can discuss where those 5 armies entered Israel.
> 
> An armistice was called by the UN Security Council. Nobody won or lost that war.
> 
> I await your duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The whole of the land under the previous rule of the mandate.
> When did Jews ever lose sovereignty over the land?
> 
> Israel is the only one who came into agreements with neighbors based on those borders, no one else.
> It's same map You claim belongs to Arabs, after they've got a bigger chunk of it in the East Bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> When did Jews ever gain sovereignty over the land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice duck. The Jewish state is defending its sovereign territory now in the face of the Islamist gee-had.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Nice duck.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border 
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

Again, you demonstrate you do not know what sovereignty is...



P F Tinmore said:


> Nice duck.
> 
> When did Jews ever gain sovereignty over the land?


*(COMMENT)*

*WHEN:*  Israel gained sovereignty WHEN it exercised it's total authority over a territory, to the exclusion of any Arab League nation it borders.  The Gazans are demonstrating at the edge of a barrier perimeter that marks the beginning of Israeli territory authority that is beyond Gazan control.

Israel has territorial sovereignty within the boundary it maintains.  It need not prove anything to the Arab Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

If you listen closely, the voices you will hear are definitely not singing kumbaya.

Still, after 6 weeks, the media has begun to notice a thing or two, interspersed among the required proclamation of peaceful demonstrations.

For example, there is some reporting on the fact that what is happening is not spontaneous and that Hamas is behind it. Not only is Hamas pulling the strings, but some newspapers have pointed out that the terrorist group manipulates Gazans by lying to them and deliberately putting civilians in danger.

The Washington Post has noted how the leaders of the riots deliberately endanger lives:
 But the protests appeared to have a more violent edge than in previous weeks. Some young men brought knives and fence cutters. At a gathering point east of Gaza City, organizers urged protesters over loudspeakers to burst through the fence, telling them Israeli soldiers were fleeing their positions, _even as they were reinforcing them_. [emphasis added]Similarly, The New York Times reported
 The atmosphere grew more charged after midday prayers, when more than 1,000 men gathered under a large blue awning. Officials from Hamas and other militant factions addressed the worshipers, urging them into the fray and claiming — _falsely, to all appearances_ — that the fence had been breached and that Palestinians were flooding into Israel. [emphasis added]With all the trouble Hamas is going through, they are very determined. When Israel tried to impede the riots by warning bus companies in Gaza not to bring people to the border, Hamas threatened to imprison the drivers - leaving them no choice.

Similarly, in order to encourage the largest possible of participants in what was supposed to be the last day of the riots, Hamas declared a general strike and even UNRWA complied and closed down.

Just as the media has begrudgingly mentioned the hand of Hamas in encouraging the riots, journalists have been a bit more forthcoming -- even if they cannot quite bring themselves to admit to the weapons that are being brought and used:

(full article online)

Lies, Damn Lies and The Gaza Riots (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gazans fire at troops, IDF destroys Hamas posts in fresh clash


----------



## Sixties Fan

Six houses in Sderot were struck by machine gun fire from the Gaza Strip Wednesday.

The Sderot Municipality stated that "a short while ago, IDF aircraft were fired at. Bullets hit a number of houses in Sderot. There were no casualties but the houses were damaged. The municipality workers are on the scene to provide an initial response together with the security and rescue forces."

(full article online)

6 houses in Sderot hit by machine gun fire


----------



## Indeependent

Sixties Fan said:


> Six houses in Sderot were struck by machine gun fire from the Gaza Strip Wednesday.
> 
> The Sderot Municipality stated that "a short while ago, IDF aircraft were fired at. Bullets hit a number of houses in Sderot. There were no casualties but the houses were damaged. The municipality workers are on the scene to provide an initial response together with the security and rescue forces."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 6 houses in Sderot hit by machine gun fire


Time to shut off Gaza’s electricity.


----------



## Hollie

The "Peaceful Tire Burning Riots" are anything but. Hamas has little choice but to acknowledge the fact that their terrorists have been selectively culled by IDF snipers.

The language above is specific. My take away from the Hamas announcement speaks to the remarkable ability of the IDF to identify selected islamic terrorists as targets and to deliver a very generous "Islamic Terrorist Early Retirement Package".



Hamas leader says 50 Gazans killed were members of group
4hr ago
*Hamas leader says 50 Gazans killed were members of group*

A Hamas official says in an interview that 50 of the Gazans killed in Monday’s clashes with Israeli troops were members of the terror group.

Salah Bardawil says of the “62 people martyred, 50 were Hamas.” Gaza’s Hamas-run health ministry earlier reported 60 Gazans were killed in the clashes.


----------



## Hollie

Indeependent said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Six houses in Sderot were struck by machine gun fire from the Gaza Strip Wednesday.
> 
> The Sderot Municipality stated that "a short while ago, IDF aircraft were fired at. Bullets hit a number of houses in Sderot. There were no casualties but the houses were damaged. The municipality workers are on the scene to provide an initial response together with the security and rescue forces."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 6 houses in Sderot hit by machine gun fire
> 
> 
> 
> Time to shut off Gaza’s electricity.
Click to expand...


Call in a carrier from Norfolk. Drag Gaza into the sea and wash out the rabble. Somebody cue-up Billy Joel.

US carrriers clean even those hard to reach places.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians have never breached a border. Neither did the "five invading armies."



Just word games.  Technically correct on the first one since the "border" between Israel and Gaza is not technically a border, but it is a treaty boundary.  The second one is just plain wrong.  The "five invading armies" did cross international borders and two of them took control of territory which did not belong to them (outside the international borders demarcating the territory under their sovereignty).  Yeah, yeah, I know you are going to argue that they were "invited" and that the sovereign willingly ceded territory to them or some such thing.  Word games.


----------



## Billo_Really

toomuchtime_ said:


> You see, with every post you supply more evidence of how crazy you are.  You asked why you would hate Jews and I have repeated that because you are crazy and then you ask the same question again as if I hadn't already answered.  Clear evidence of cognitive dysfunction.


Appealing to international law is crazy?  Being against deliberate murder of unarmed civilians is crazy?  Wanting Israel to held accountable is crazy?  Asking what any of this has to do with religion is crazy?

2 + 2 = 4

That should prove I don't have cognitive dysfunction.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Billo_Really said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> You see, with every post you supply more evidence of how crazy you are.  You asked why you would hate Jews and I have repeated that because you are crazy and then you ask the same question again as if I hadn't already answered.  Clear evidence of cognitive dysfunction.
> 
> 
> 
> Appealing to international law is crazy?  Being against deliberate murder of unarmed civilians is crazy?  Wanting Israel to held accountable is crazy?  Asking what any of this has to do with religion is crazy?
> 
> 2 + 2 = 4
> 
> That should prove I don't have cognitive dysfunction.
Click to expand...

Just the opposite, it is further evidence you do.  It shows you are unable to discern between slogans and facts.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> When did Jews ever gain sovereignty over the land?



When the Mandate was written by the Allied Powers who formally and legally recognized the Jewish claim to part of that land by the fact of their historical connection and continued residency.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Good list.  You deserve to be a nation by obeying international law, respecting human rights, honoring the rights of self-determination to other groups, getting along with neighbors, not being apartheid.
> 
> Israel has all that covered.  Gaza not so much.  For example, how is trying to breach an international border "obeying international law"?  How is having not a single Jew in your territory "not being apartheid"?  How is calling for the murder of Jews "respecting human rights"?  How is demanding to march through a foreign nation ripping the hearts out of its citizens "honoring the right to self-determination"?  How is calling for the destruction of your neighbor's State "getting along with neighbors".
> 
> Seems to me that Gaza isn't at all deserving of being a country.  Oh look, it isn't.
> 
> Oh look we agree!  Also Israelis (the Jewish people) have the right to self-determination without interference from Gaza in the form of violence directed toward it and attempts at breaching its border.
> 
> Actually, they are SO not.  They are dissolved Armistice Lines from a settled war between States.  But if you believe that they ARE then you must also agree that Gazans have no right to attempt to breach them.  Period.


Why is it, you never look inward?


----------



## Hollie

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did Jews ever gain sovereignty over the land?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the Mandate was written by the Allied Powers who formally and legally recognized the Jewish claim to part of that land by the fact of their historical connection and continued residency.
Click to expand...


And, for Tinmore's benefit: when they (the Jewish people) gained sovereignty over the land. The term sovereignty and its definition has been described to Tinmore on perhaps two dozen occasions so he can add two dozen and one occassions to his re'sume'.


----------



## Billo_Really

toomuchtime_ said:


> Just the opposite, it is further evidence you do.  It shows you are unable to discern between slogans and facts.


Give me 3 examples of slogans and 3 examples of facts.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Billo_Really said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just the opposite, it is further evidence you do.  It shows you are unable to discern between slogans and facts.
> 
> 
> 
> Give me 3 examples of slogans and 3 examples of facts.
Click to expand...

lol  What would be the point of arguing what is a fact and what is just a slogan with some one who clearly can't discern between the two?


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Why is it, you never look inward?



You mean, examine Israel for where it could improve? I do. All the time. I don't often post about it because I'm too busy addressing you guys and your foolishness.  If you would like an example, see my latest post on the _Is it time to re-take Gaza_ thread.  

Why don't you?  Why don't you ask yourself why Gaza can't put down its weapons and stop attacking Israel?


----------



## montelatici

Why don't you ask yourself why Israel can't put down its weapons and lift the blockade?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, you demonstrate you do not know what sovereignty is...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> When did Jews ever gain sovereignty over the land?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *WHEN:*  Israel gained sovereignty WHEN it exercised it's total authority over a territory, to the exclusion of any Arab League nation it borders.  The Gazans are demonstrating at the edge of a barrier perimeter that marks the beginning of Israeli territory authority that is beyond Gazan control.
> 
> Israel has territorial sovereignty within the boundary it maintains.  It need not prove anything to the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You keep confusing military occupation with sovereignty. Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Here's a video taken by a child at the Gaza border on Monday. He screams "Allah hu Akbar" as people approach the fence (and he follows), and then he cries with joy as (according to the articles) he witnesses Gazans cutting the barbed wire.

Remember, Gaza schools - including UNRWA schools - were closed on Monday to allow as many children as possible to go to the riots.

(full article and video online)

A child at the Gaza border ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## montelatici

The 24/7 Israeli propaganda troll posts a link to the "tell the big" lie site.  Hilarious.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians in Gaza Are Dying  for a Photo Op


----------



## montelatici

Goebbels would be proud of you. LOL


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> Why don't you ask yourself why Israel can't put down its weapons and lift the blockade?



Seriously?  Um.  I don't know.  Maybe its because the government of Gaza is calling on marching to Jerusalem ripping the hearts out of Jews and removing their sovereignty.  And we believe them.  Maybe its because teenagers in Gaza are saying they want to see Jews burn.  And we believe them. Maybe its the swastikas.  And we believe those when we see them too. 

Maybe its because Iran (which has also promised to destroy Israel and kill Jews) is supplying Gaza with weapons.  Maybe its because lifting the blockade will permit more access to weapons. 

Israel has already withdrawn from Gaza.  Israel has put down her weapons. She only takes them up again at need when Gaza attacks her.  Like now. 

Now, why won't Gaza stop attacking Israel?


----------



## Shusha

Any mathematicians out there ready to help?  If an army were to shoot indiscriminately for several hours into a crowd of 45,000 representing population distribution in Gaza, what are the odds of killing 53 men who are Hamas and Jihad operatives and (8) civilians? -- Einat Wilf via Twitter


----------



## montelatici

None were Hamas operatives, they were simply unarmed protestors.  No one falls for your propaganda.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never breached a border. Neither did the "five invading armies."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just word games.  Technically correct on the first one since the "border" between Israel and Gaza is not technically a border, but it is a treaty boundary.  The second one is just plain wrong.  The "five invading armies" did cross international borders and two of them took control of territory which did not belong to them (outside the international borders demarcating the territory under their sovereignty).  Yeah, yeah, I know you are going to argue that they were "invited" and that the sovereign willingly ceded territory to them or some such thing.  Word games.
Click to expand...

Nice word salad.

The armistice line was a line that Israeli forces and Egyptian  forces were not to cross. The line ran through Palestine. It was Palestine on both sides. As far as I can tell, that has not changed.

It doesn't matter what the Arab armies did. They did not enter Israel.


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> None were Hamas operatives, they were simply unarmed protestors.  No one falls for your propaganda.



Right?!  Not even Hamas.  Who claimed them.  Wow.  Pretty special when Hamas is wooed by Israeli propaganda, huh?


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never breached a border. Neither did the "five invading armies."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just word games.  Technically correct on the first one since the "border" between Israel and Gaza is not technically a border, but it is a treaty boundary.  The second one is just plain wrong.  The "five invading armies" did cross international borders and two of them took control of territory which did not belong to them (outside the international borders demarcating the territory under their sovereignty).  Yeah, yeah, I know you are going to argue that they were "invited" and that the sovereign willingly ceded territory to them or some such thing.  Word games.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice word salad.
> 
> The armistice line was a line that Israeli forces and Egyptian  forces were not to cross. The line ran through Palestine. It was Palestine on both sides. As far as I can tell, that has not changed.
> 
> It doesn't matter what the Arab armies did. They did not enter Israel.
Click to expand...

They got their asses kicked at the border.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did Jews ever gain sovereignty over the land?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the Mandate was written by the Allied Powers who formally and legally recognized the Jewish claim to part of that land by the fact of their historical connection and continued residency.
Click to expand...

You need to read the Mandate. That is not what it says.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did Jews ever gain sovereignty over the land?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the Mandate was written by the Allied Powers who formally and legally recognized the Jewish claim to part of that land by the fact of their historical connection and continued residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to read the Mandate. That is not what it says.
Click to expand...


Only to people with a peculiar blindness for the "J" word.


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did Jews ever gain sovereignty over the land?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the Mandate was written by the Allied Powers who formally and legally recognized the Jewish claim to part of that land by the fact of their historical connection and continued residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to read the Mandate. That is not what it says.
Click to expand...

We’re sure you know the many pages of the Mandate.
Moron.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> None were Hamas operatives, they were simply unarmed protestors.  No one falls for your propaganda.


Sorry, clueless. You simply have an aversion to the facts.

Gaza Protests: 50 Hamas Terrorists Killed at Israel's Border | National Review


----------



## P F Tinmore

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did Jews ever gain sovereignty over the land?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the Mandate was written by the Allied Powers who formally and legally recognized the Jewish claim to part of that land by the fact of their historical connection and continued residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to read the Mandate. That is not what it says.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We’re sure you know the many pages of the Mandate.
> Moron.
Click to expand...

I do. Where does it mention Israel, Jewish state, or land transfer?


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did Jews ever gain sovereignty over the land?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the Mandate was written by the Allied Powers who formally and legally recognized the Jewish claim to part of that land by the fact of their historical connection and continued residency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to read the Mandate. That is not what it says.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We’re sure you know the many pages of the Mandate.
> Moron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do. Where does it mention Israel, Jewish state, or land transfer?
Click to expand...

Just like your in depth knowledge of the thousands of documents referenced in The Treaty Of Lawrence of Arabia?
You’re totally full of it.


----------



## Sixties Fan

(vide video online)

Watch: Arrested terrorist reveals all


----------



## Sixties Fan

About a year ago I took part in a long and searching discussion of Arab-Jewish relations with several friends in an Arab city in Samaria.  They were heads of leading hamulot (clans), traditionally the respected leaders of the local population. The meeting took place at the home of one of the city's dominant sheikhs, over a lavish platter of fruits and vegetables fit for a king. 

At some point, my host ceased speaking, and  after thinking for what seemed a very long time, said in ponderous literary Arabic, incisive and serious, weighing every word: " Doctor Kedar, do  you know what  a terrorist organization is? " The question surprised and intrigued me, and I answered "No," curious and awaiting his answer. "Mark my words, Doctor," he said, "a terrorist organization is not an organization fighting against its enemies. A terrorist organization is an organization that fights its own people, its own nation, fights the very people it claims to protect, the children for whom it is responsible."

My eyebrows raised in surprise, I asked "Kif – how is that?" and he answered, in a voice permeated with sadness: "Look at ISIS, who do they slaughter? The Muslims in Iraq, Syria, the Sinai. Look at Hezbollah, who do they murder? The Syrian Muslims. Look at Hamas, who do they kill? The people of Gaza. An organization fighting enemies is a liberation organization, an organization fighting its own people is a terror organization." The words were totally unexpected, and all those present were shocked into silence. Not a sound could be heard in the room, because the import of that statement is a declaration of war, no less, on Hamas, made by a sheikh and his hamula. "Interesting," I finally was able to say, keeping my thoughts to myself, intending to mull  upon his remarks later on.

(full article online )

Hamas: Down to the last Gazan


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border 
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

And yet again, you demonstrate a lack of understanding of "territorial sovereignty."



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, you demonstrate you do not know what sovereignty is...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> When did Jews ever gain sovereignty over the land?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *WHEN:*  Israel gained sovereignty WHEN it exercised it's total authority over a territory, to the exclusion of any Arab League nation it borders.  The Gazans are demonstrating at the edge of a barrier perimeter that marks the beginning of Israeli territory authority that is beyond Gazan control.
> 
> Israel has territorial sovereignty within the boundary it maintains.  It need not prove anything to the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep confusing military occupation with sovereignty. Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

✪⇒
 *Article 42* • The Hague Convention 1907 • Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.
 The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.
✪⇒
 When a particular territory  is not under the authority of any other state, a state (Israel) can establish its sovereignty over such territory by occupation. The territory may never have belonged to any state, or it may have been abandoned by the previous sovereign; example:  Jordan abandon the West Bank.  _(Self-Determina__tion has little legal meaning.  It is a powerful political concept.)_
✪⇒
Corresponding the modes of acquiring territory, there are modes of losing it.  Territory may be lost by express declaration or conduct such as a treaty of cession or acceptance of cession, by conquest, by erosion or natural geographic activities, by prescription or by abandonment _(ex - West Bank and Jordan)._​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Firebomb kite in flight from the Gaza border, April 20 2018


A Facebook post from a Jewish mother living close to the Gaza border revealed the stark reality of life for children whose lives have been brutalized by Hamas on both sides of the border these days.

“Just a note: The kids living here are TERRIFIED of the kites,” she wrote on Tuesday. “They watch them flying over the border with molotovs (sic) attached, they see the numerous bush fires close to their homes started by them and the black acrid smoke rising all along the border from the thousands of tires they are burning. 

“They hear the explosions on the border and one child took a photo of a kite over his _own home_.

(full article online)

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/eye...i-children-now-terrified-of-kites/2018/05/16/


----------



## Billo_Really

toomuchtime_ said:


> lol  What would be the point of arguing what is a fact and what is just a slogan with some one who clearly can't discern between the two?


I'm asking for the evidence to back up your claim.  What have you based that claim on?  If you can't give me an example of a slogan, or an example of a fact, then there is no way, in your words, we can "discern" as to whether you know what you are talking about, or you are full of shit.

You made the claim.  Back it up, boy!


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> You mean, examine Israel for where it could improve? I do. All the time. I don't often post about it because I'm too busy addressing you guys and your foolishness.  If you would like an example, see my latest post on the _Is it time to re-take Gaza_ thread.
> 
> Why don't you?  Why don't you ask yourself why Gaza can't put down its weapons and stop attacking Israel?


No, I mean you never ask...

What is Israel doing wrong?  
Why are there almost 400 UN resolutions regarding Israel?  
Why do you think throwing a rock against the most militarized country on earth, is an attack?  
What is Israel doing to cause these protests?  
Why is maintaining a blockade of Gaza, not leaving the area?  
Why can't we end the occupation?  
What's wrong with the Israeli government?
Why doesn't Israel put down its weapons and stop attacking Gaza?​


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean, examine Israel for where it could improve? I do. All the time. I don't often post about it because I'm too busy addressing you guys and your foolishness.  If you would like an example, see my latest post on the _Is it time to re-take Gaza_ thread.
> 
> Why don't you?  Why don't you ask yourself why Gaza can't put down its weapons and stop attacking Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> No, I mean you never ask...
> 
> What is Israel doing wrong?
> Why are there almost 400 UN resolutions regarding Israel?
> Why do you think throwing a rock against the most militarized country on earth, is an attack?
> What is Israel doing to cause these protests?
> Why is maintaining a blockade of Gaza, not leaving the area?
> Why can't we end the occupation?
> What's wrong with the Israeli government?
> Why doesn't Israel put down its weapons and stop attacking Gaza?​
Click to expand...


1)  Nothing.
2)  Because the world is anti-Jewish.
3)  A rock killed Goliath.  It can put out an eye, maim or kill.
4)  It's existing.
5)  Because Hamas will bring in supplies for rockets and tunnels.
6)  If you're talking about Gaza, the occupation ended there.  See no. 5 for blockade.
7) Nothing.
8)  Because Gaza attacks them first.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean, examine Israel for where it could improve? I do. All the time. I don't often post about it because I'm too busy addressing you guys and your foolishness.  If you would like an example, see my latest post on the _Is it time to re-take Gaza_ thread.
> 
> Why don't you?  Why don't you ask yourself why Gaza can't put down its weapons and stop attacking Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> No, I mean you never ask...
> 
> What is Israel doing wrong?
> Why are there almost 400 UN resolutions regarding Israel?
> Why do you think throwing a rock against the most militarized country on earth, is an attack?
> What is Israel doing to cause these protests?
> Why is maintaining a blockade of Gaza, not leaving the area?
> Why can't we end the occupation?
> What's wrong with the Israeli government?
> Why doesn't Israel put down its weapons and stop attacking Gaza?​
Click to expand...

You know very well that you are only playing games with these questions.

Whether you are a member of the BDS movement or not, your games are not going to work.

Anyone can see from the videos and photos posted that the Arabs in Gaza are not only throwing rocks at the other side of the fence.





Give us your best Arabic translation of this:

Jonathan Conricus on Twitter

Here is the original site where the video appeared.


Go for it, Habibi.

http://alaqsavoice.ps/news/details/203028


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> No, I mean you never ask...
> 
> What is Israel doing wrong?
> Why are there almost 400 UN resolutions regarding Israel?
> Why do you think throwing a rock against the most militarized country on earth, is an attack?
> What is Israel doing to cause these protests?
> Why is maintaining a blockade of Gaza, not leaving the area?
> Why can't we end the occupation?
> What's wrong with the Israeli government?
> Why doesn't Israel put down its weapons and stop attacking Gaza?​



Oh.  I guess its because the answers are rather obvious.  

Nothing.  
Antisemitism.
Because its potentially lethal violence.
Nothing.  (You don't cause people to attack you).
The purpose of the blockade is to protect Israeli sovereignty and its citizens.  Israel did leave Gaza.
There is no occupation.  There is a blockade.  It ends when the violence stops.
Nothing, other than the regular run-of-the-mill no government if perfect.
Israel is not attacking Gaza.  Gaza is attacking Israel.  Attempting to breach her borders using violence with intent to remove her sovereignty and kill her citizens.  

Your turn:

Why doesn't Gaza end the violence and make peace with Israel?
Why does 15 million dollars worth of concrete end up in tunnels to Israel instead of houses, hospitals and water treatment?
Why is Gaza trying to breach the international border with Israel? (An act of war)
What's wrong with Hamas?
What are Gazans doing to provoke Israel?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> And yet again, you demonstrate a lack of understanding of "territorial sovereignty."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, you demonstrate you do not know what sovereignty is...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> When did Jews ever gain sovereignty over the land?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *WHEN:*  Israel gained sovereignty WHEN it exercised it's total authority over a territory, to the exclusion of any Arab League nation it borders.  The Gazans are demonstrating at the edge of a barrier perimeter that marks the beginning of Israeli territory authority that is beyond Gazan control.
> 
> Israel has territorial sovereignty within the boundary it maintains.  It need not prove anything to the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep confusing military occupation with sovereignty. Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✪⇒
> *Article 42* • The Hague Convention 1907 • Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.
> The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.
> ✪⇒
> When a particular territory  is not under the authority of any other state, a state (Israel) can establish its sovereignty over such territory by occupation. The territory may never have belonged to any state, or it may have been abandoned by the previous sovereign; example:  Jordan abandon the West Bank.  _(Self-Determination has little legal meaning.  It is a powerful political concept.)_
> ✪⇒
> Corresponding the modes of acquiring territory, there are modes of losing it.  Territory may be lost by express declaration or conduct such as a treaty of cession or acceptance of cession, by conquest, by erosion or natural geographic activities, by prescription or by abandonment _(ex - West Bank and Jordan)._​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

What does all that have to do with my post?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> And yet again, you demonstrate a lack of understanding of "territorial sovereignty."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Again, you demonstrate you do not know what sovereignty is...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> When did Jews ever gain sovereignty over the land?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *WHEN:*  Israel gained sovereignty WHEN it exercised it's total authority over a territory, to the exclusion of any Arab League nation it borders.  The Gazans are demonstrating at the edge of a barrier perimeter that marks the beginning of Israeli territory authority that is beyond Gazan control.
> 
> Israel has territorial sovereignty within the boundary it maintains.  It need not prove anything to the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep confusing military occupation with sovereignty. Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✪⇒
> *Article 42* • The Hague Convention 1907 • Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.
> The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.
> ✪⇒
> When a particular territory  is not under the authority of any other state, a state (Israel) can establish its sovereignty over such territory by occupation. The territory may never have belonged to any state, or it may have been abandoned by the previous sovereign; example:  Jordan abandon the West Bank.  _(Self-Determination has little legal meaning.  It is a powerful political concept.)_
> ✪⇒
> Corresponding the modes of acquiring territory, there are modes of losing it.  Territory may be lost by express declaration or conduct such as a treaty of cession or acceptance of cession, by conquest, by erosion or natural geographic activities, by prescription or by abandonment _(ex - West Bank and Jordan)._​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does all that have to do with my post?
Click to expand...

Oh, look.....Tinman AGAIN  dragging a thread into his favorite topic.

Try to keep up with the thread and stop taking the wrong turn.


----------



## Billo_Really

ForeverYoung436 said:


> 1)  Nothing.
> 2)  Because the world is anti-Jewish.
> 3)  A rock killed Goliath.  It can put out an eye, maim or kill.
> 4)  It's existing.
> 5)  Because Hamas will bring in supplies for rockets and tunnels.
> 6)  If you're talking about Gaza, the occupation ended there.  See no. 5 for blockade.
> 7) Nothing.
> 8)  Because Gaza attacks them first.


Answers are as follows...

You make such a fine German.
Does that include Holocaust victims?
So you are admitting the Pals are David?
Another big Zionist lie.
It's none of Israel's business what Hamas has.
The occupation did not end if you maintain effective control of the area.
Another comment straight out of the Weimar Republic.
Wrong!  The Gaza attacks came 34 years after the occupation began.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> You know very well that you are only playing games with these questions.
> 
> Whether you are a member of the BDS movement or not, your games are not going to work.
> 
> Anyone can see from the videos and photos posted that the Arabs in Gaza are not only throwing rocks at the other side of the fence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Give us your best Arabic translation of this:
> 
> Jonathan Conricus on Twitter
> 
> Here is the original site where the video appeared.
> 
> 
> Go for it, Habibi.
> 
> البردويل: مصر لم تطلب وقف مسيرة العودة لكنها كانت متخوفة - إذاعة صوت الأقصى 106.7FM


You're proving my point.  You think rocks, children, disabled people, kites, ropes tied to a fence, are attacks against Israel.  Can you be any more evil?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know very well that you are only playing games with these questions.
> 
> Whether you are a member of the BDS movement or not, your games are not going to work.
> 
> Anyone can see from the videos and photos posted that the Arabs in Gaza are not only throwing rocks at the other side of the fence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Give us your best Arabic translation of this:
> 
> Jonathan Conricus on Twitter
> 
> Here is the original site where the video appeared.
> 
> 
> Go for it, Habibi.
> 
> البردويل: مصر لم تطلب وقف مسيرة العودة لكنها كانت متخوفة - إذاعة صوت الأقصى 106.7FM
> 
> 
> 
> You're proving my point.  You think rocks, children, disabled people, kites, ropes tied to a fence, are attacks against Israel.  Can you be any more evil?
Click to expand...

By all means keep proving your BDS connection.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Oh.  I guess its because the answers are rather obvious.
> 
> Nothing.
> Antisemitism.
> Because its potentially lethal violence.
> Nothing.  (You don't cause people to attack you).
> The purpose of the blockade is to protect Israeli sovereignty and its citizens.  Israel did leave Gaza.
> There is no occupation.  There is a blockade.  It ends when the violence stops.
> Nothing, other than the regular run-of-the-mill no government if perfect.
> Israel is not attacking Gaza.  Gaza is attacking Israel.  Attempting to breach her borders using violence with intent to remove her sovereignty and kill her citizens.
> 
> Your turn:
> 
> Why doesn't Gaza end the violence and make peace with Israel?
> Why does 15 million dollars worth of concrete end up in tunnels to Israel instead of houses, hospitals and water treatment?
> Why is Gaza trying to breach the international border with Israel? (An act of war)
> What's wrong with Hamas?
> What are Gazans doing to provoke Israel?


Okay, your answers are as follows...

But first, my response to your answers...


Average Germans didn't think their government was doing anything wrong during the '30's, either.
This is not a religious issue.  BTW, several of those resolutions are telling Israel to stop doing business with apartheid South Africa.  How is that anti-Semitic?
Throwing a rock against a concrete wall is potentially deadly?
The purpose of the blockade is to collectively punish Gazans for not voting for Israel's bitch.
You didn't answer the question.  I asked you, why is the blockade, not leaving the area?
That statement makes no sense.
You have more in common with the Nazis, than you do their victims.
Now I will answer your questions...

Israel won't allow peace.  They tried peaceful means to end the conflict, Israel attacked.
Because the illegal and immoral blockade is forcing them to.
Because the Israeli blockade is making life unbearable in Gaza.
Israeli extrajudicial assassinations.
That's what Hitler said about Poland.

You are such a mindless tool!


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh.  I guess its because the answers are rather obvious.
> 
> Nothing.
> Antisemitism.
> Because its potentially lethal violence.
> Nothing.  (You don't cause people to attack you).
> The purpose of the blockade is to protect Israeli sovereignty and its citizens.  Israel did leave Gaza.
> There is no occupation.  There is a blockade.  It ends when the violence stops.
> Nothing, other than the regular run-of-the-mill no government if perfect.
> Israel is not attacking Gaza.  Gaza is attacking Israel.  Attempting to breach her borders using violence with intent to remove her sovereignty and kill her citizens.
> 
> Your turn:
> 
> Why doesn't Gaza end the violence and make peace with Israel?
> Why does 15 million dollars worth of concrete end up in tunnels to Israel instead of houses, hospitals and water treatment?
> Why is Gaza trying to breach the international border with Israel? (An act of war)
> What's wrong with Hamas?
> What are Gazans doing to provoke Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, your answers are as follows...
> 
> But first, my response to your answers...
> 
> 
> Average Germans didn't think their government was doing anything wrong during the '30's, either.
> This is not a religious issue.  BTW, several of those resolutions are telling Israel to stop doing business with apartheid South Africa.  How is that anti-Semitic?
> Throwing a rock against a concrete wall is potentially deadly?
> The purpose of the blockade is to collectively punish Gazans for not voting for Israel's bitch.
> You didn't answer the question.  I asked you, why is the blockade, not leaving the area?
> That statement makes no sense.
> You have more in common with the Nazis, than you do their victims.
> Now I will answer your questions...
> 
> Israel won't allow peace.  They tried peaceful means to end the conflict, Israel attacked.
> Because the illegal and immoral blockade is forcing them to.
> Because the Israeli blockade is making life unbearable in Gaza.
> Israeli extrajudicial assassinations.
> That's what Hitler said about Poland.
> 
> You are such a mindless tool!
Click to expand...

More BDS.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> By all means keep proving your BDS connection.


Why do I have to prove it?  I completely support BDS 100%.  They are holding you fuckers accountable for your illegal and immoral actions.  I love that movement.  

You, on the other hand, can Lekh tezdayen


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> More BDS.


What is your point, twisted sister?


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> The occupation did not end if you maintain effective control of the area



If Israel had effective control of Gaza she wouldn't be in the position of having to defend her borders against an onslaught of Hamas terrorists embedded in crowds of civilians.  These events are a very clear demonstration that Israel does not have effective control over Gaza.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> If Israel had effective control of Gaza she wouldn't be in the position of having to defend her borders against an onslaught of Hamas terrorists embedded in crowds of civilians.  These events are a very clear demonstration that Israel does not have effective control over Gaza.


What?  You are one twisted lunatic!  You shoot them when they fish.  You shoot them when they farm.  Yet you claim they are the aggressor?

Lehi lehizdayen


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Israel had effective control of Gaza she wouldn't be in the position of having to defend her borders against an onslaught of Hamas terrorists embedded in crowds of civilians.  These events are a very clear demonstration that Israel does not have effective control over Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> What?  You are one twisted lunatic!  You shoot them when they fish.  You shoot them when they farm.  Yet you claim they are the aggressor?
> 
> Lehi lehizdayen
Click to expand...


You’re a bit befuddled, sweetie. You shoot rockets at Israel from civilian areas, you attack people with knives, you run people down with cars. Yet, you claim an entitlement to do that.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Iran-backed terrorist group Palestinian Islamic Jihad announced that a minor and a double amputee were among its fighters who died in clashes on the Gaza-Israel border on Monday.

In a death notice vowing “to continue Jihad and resistance,” the Islamist group released photographs of its fallen “mujahedeen” in uniform, among them 16-year-old Ahmed Adel Musa Alshaer.

A second PIJ member was identified as “wounded hero” Fadi Hassan Abu Salah, who lost his legs in a “Zionist bombing” during Operation Cast Lead in 2008-2009.

A tweet announcing Abu Salah’s death received over 19,000 retweets on Monday before it was retracted, after it was revealed that it featured a photo of a different Palestinian man from an earlier protest. The tweet didn’t mention Abu Salah’s affiliation.

(full article online)

Palestinian Islamic Jihad Claims Minor, Double Amputee Among Its ‘Mujahedeen’ Killed on Gaza Border


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Israel had effective control of Gaza she wouldn't be in the position of having to defend her borders against an onslaught of Hamas terrorists embedded in crowds of civilians.  These events are a very clear demonstration that Israel does not have effective control over Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> What?  You are one twisted lunatic!  You shoot them when they fish.  You shoot them when they farm.  Yet you claim they are the aggressor?
> 
> Lehi lehizdayen
Click to expand...


I was claiming Israel had no effective control over Gaza.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> I was claiming Israel had no effective control over Gaza.


Then what do you call shooting at fishermen and farmers?


----------



## Billo_Really

This one is for Susha and Sixties Fan...


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Palestinians simply throwing rocks.......take 200 (clap)  ]


The bullets that hit Sderot, a city in southern Israel that has frequently been the site of rocket attacks over the past 20 years, were large caliber rounds that were fired from a heavy machine gun by members of a terrorist group in Gaza, the IDF said.








IDF planes strike Hamas ‘terror targets’ in northern Gaza Strip


----------



## Billo_Really

Here's another one for those girlish fence protectors...


----------



## Billo_Really




----------



## Billo_Really




----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> You’re a bit befuddled, sweetie. You shoot rockets at Israel from civilian areas, you attack people with knives, you run people down with cars. Yet, you claim an entitlement to do that.


I did not claim that, sugarbush.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Billo_Really said:


> This one is for Susha and Sixties Fan...


 
Look at the bright side; They’re not naming a Street after him.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> This one is for Susha and Sixties Fan...




This is the child who died of an existing heart condition, which had nothing at all to do with the conflict at the border.  Lipush already posted about it.  Do better.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> This is the child who died of an existing heart condition, which had nothing at all to do with the conflict at the border.  Lipush already posted about it.  Do better.


And you say nothing about the tear gas shot at her.


----------



## Billo_Really

To suppress the massive peaceful demonstrations in Gaza, where the majority are Nakba refugees and their descendants, demanding an end to the 12-year-old siege and refugees’ rights, Israel has enacted a shoot-to-kill-or-maim policy, killing dozens and injuring thousands, many with live ammunition. The prosecutor of the International Criminal Court has condemned these crimes, while Amnesty International has called on world governments “to impose a comprehensive arms embargo on Israel” as an effective measure of accountability.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> This one is for Susha and Sixties Fan...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the child who died of an existing heart condition, which had nothing at all to do with the conflict at the border.  Lipush already posted about it.  Do better.
Click to expand...

'We are awaiting the pathologist's report,' says spokesman. Layla Ghandour's reported death from tear gas inhalation Monday made headlines

(full article online

Gaza’s health ministry now says it doesn’t know cause of baby’s death at border


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> 'We are awaiting the pathologist's report,' says spokesman. Layla Ghandour's reported death from tear gas inhalation Monday made headlines
> 
> (full article online
> 
> Gaza’s health ministry now says it doesn’t know cause of baby’s death at border


Waiting infers you care, which we all know you don't.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> To suppress the massive peaceful demonstrations in Gaza, where the majority are Nakba refugees and their descendants, demanding an end to the 12-year-old siege and refugees’ rights, Israel has enacted a shoot-to-kill-or-maim policy, killing dozens and injuring thousands, many with live ammunition. The prosecutor of the International Criminal Court has condemned these crimes, while Amnesty International has called on world governments “to impose a comprehensive arms embargo on Israel” as an effective measure of accountability.



Ahh. “Peaceful demonstrations”. 

Now do you understand why people point and laugh at you?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border 
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,


P F Tinmore said:


> What does all that have to do with my post?


*(COMMENT)*

And you don't even recognized the definitions of "occupation" and "sovereignty" when you see them.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does all that have to do with my post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And you don't even recognized the definitions of "occupation" and "sovereignty" when you see them.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Occupations have a number of obligations and restriction. Israel violates virtually all of them. The invasion phase predates the occupation.  Israel fits an invasion/colonial definition more so than an occupation.

Of course no sovereignty is acquired there either.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, they attacked Israel and they indeed lost.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong and wrong.
> 
> You need to get off of that Israel propaganda crap.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, I'm correct. You need to learn history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Post a 1948 map of Israel then we can discuss where those 5 armies entered Israel.
> 
> An armistice was called by the UN Security Council. Nobody won or lost that war.
> 
> I await your duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The whole of the land under the previous rule of the mandate.
> When did Jews ever lose sovereignty over the land?
> 
> Israel is the only one who came into agreements with neighbors based on those borders, no one else.
> It's same map You claim belongs to Arabs, after they've got a bigger chunk of it in the East Bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> When did Jews ever gain sovereignty over the land?
Click to expand...



After it was recognized as a National Home for Jews, when they got independent from the mandate and established a state.

Was Palestine called an Arab or Jewish National Home?


----------



## Sixties Fan

On Sunday, 114 Arabs were killed.

On Monday, 30 more.

On Tuesday, 26 more.

But the media didn't think that Arabs dying is an interesting story. Those people had the misfortune of being killed by other Arabs. If they had been killed by Jews, then suddenly there would be interest.

Instead, the news agencies sent hundreds of reporters to "report" on something that they already decided would be a massacre of innocent, unarmed civilians before a single shot was fired.

The reporters were busy falsely accusing Israel of shooting randomly into crowds of innocent unarmed civilians who were simply protesting the "blockade." Or the US embassy.  Or their frustration. (Most reporters pretended that the protests, named the Great return March, had anything to do with "return" to overrun Israel based on its having the audacity to exist since 1948.)

(full article online)

170 killed in Syria the first three days of this week. No one bothered to report about THOSE dead Arabs. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

One of the tropes that is being repeated everywhere is this one, promoted here with complete credulity by the New York Times:

International law allowed for the use of lethal force only as a last resort in the face of an immediate threat to life or serious injury, Mr. Colville noted. Those laws "appear to have been ignored again and again," he added.

"An attempt to approach, or crossing or damaging the green line fence do not amount to a threat to life or serious injury and are not sufficient grounds for the use of live ammunition," he said.

This farcical claim originates with "human rights" groups such as Human Rights Watch (whose Israel director, Omar Shakir, is a BDS activist) and Amnesty International (which calls for an arms embargo on Israel).

The problem is this alleged requirement of "international law" doesn't exist. It is made-up, an example of the new trend of human rights groups claiming "international law" that doesn't actually exist in, say, the Geneva Conventions, but is merely what these groups wish was enshrined in international law because it gives their hatred of Israel a sheen of moral high-mindedness and impartiality.

The concept that lethal force can only be used when faced with an "imminent threat to life" is taken from domestic law enforcement, not from the laws of armed conflict. Just think of how ludicrous this claim is applied to the battlefield: it would render the United States, for example, guilty of war crimes for killing members of ISIS and al Qaeda in Syria and Afghanistan.

No matter. Ken Roth, the head of Human Rights Watch, tweets:







How do we know Ken Roth is wrong? Because Ken Roth says so. Here he is writing in a different context one year ago:

"In war, opposing combatants can be targeted and killed by virtue of their status as combatants, without regard to their conduct at that moment. … In peacetime, by contrast, law enforcement rules allow the use of lethal force only as a last resort to stop an imminent lethal threat."

(full article online)

Making Up International Law For Fun and Sport


----------



## Sixties Fan

Dear People Who Think Israel is Wrong About Gaza,

Many of my own friends are among you; I truly want to know: How are you seeing something so different than what I see? Where does our understanding diverge?

Do you believe that we are wrong to defend our borders?

Or is it that you believe that thousands of people trying to breach the border with explosives, meat cleavers and other weapons and devices are ‘unarmed’?

Or do you not believe Hamas when they pay(!) people to get hurt or even killed in their malicious attempts to attack Israel?

Perhaps you are an expert in International Law and in the specific actions of the IDF so that you can accuse and convict an entire army and people of breaking international laws and conventions in their defensive actions done to protect not only their own lives but the lives of the families living as close as a mile from the mob that has their sights on them?

Or maybe you're a military strategist? What would you suggest be done when thousands of people incited to hate and KILL were trying to breach YOUR border with your own family huddled minutes away on foot? How would you manage to protect them from tens of thousands of violent armed rioters?


Are you an expert in your own country’s military strategies? Could you say with certainty that under the same circumstances there would not be many more casualties from a likely much more aggressive action?

Or perhaps you are seeing the violent rioters with machetes and explosives as peaceful protesters similar to those carrying signs and megaphones? How, may I ask, have you been able to understand something that IS as something that it absolutely isn’t?

Please tell me. Perhaps if I can understand the situation in the same alternate reality as you see it then I can join you in criticizing my country for doing whatever it can to protect me and my family.

Until then, I’ll just continue sharing the truth about Hamas and Gaza and I’d really appreciate it if you took the time to try and understand it too...

_Laura Ben-David_
_
Love of the Land: Dear People Who Think Israel is Wrong About Gaza - by Laura Ben-David_


----------



## Sixties Fan

New weapon against rioters: 'The Choco Drone'


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorist comedy network needs to better coordinate its programming efforts. Some of the caliphate’ists press the “Peaceful Tire Burning Riots” meme while others drool the gee-had party line.


SENIOR HAMAS OFFICIAL MAHMOUD AL-ZAHHAR ON GAZA PROTESTS: THIS IS NOT PEACEFUL RESISTANCE, IT IS SUPPORTED BY OUR WEAPONS

Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahhar on Gaza Protests: This Is Not Peaceful Resistance, It Is Supported by Our Weapons


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border 
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

This is mostly wrong on several different levels.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does all that have to do with my post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And you don't even recognize the definitions of "occupation" and "sovereignty" when you see them.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Occupations have a number of obligations and restriction. Israel violates virtually all of them. The invasion phase predates the occupation.  Israel fits an invasion/colonial definition more so than an occupation.
> 
> Of course, no sovereignty is acquired there either.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The "Occupation Power" _(Israel)_ cannot be held responsible for the prevention of accomplishments by actions undertaken directly by the "Occupied."

The "Occupation Power" _(Israel)_ which takes measures in its power to restore and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, is not accountable for the purposefully provoked disorder by the "occupied" or the restrictions that are necessarily imposed because of disorder promoted by the "occupied."

A Breach of customary and IHL entitles a non-breaching "Occupation Power" _(Israel)_ to damages _(Reparation, Restitution and Settlements)_. However, a “material” breach by either party _(Israeli/Arab Palestinian)_ excuses the other party from their responsibility towards the "occupied."

Breach of a contract entitles a non-breaching person to damages. However, a “material” breach by one party excuses the other party from his or her requirements under the contract.

The application of "invasion/colonial definition" is not quite understood and does not meet the intent of the assisting the movement for independence in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories as managed by the Committee 24 and the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples.

On a final note...  It is by no means a given that the State of Israel even wants to assume the responsibility for the unproductive and unruly Arab Palestinians.  The principle key is the establishment of secure and defensible borders to protect the territorial integrity and citizenry of the state.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Which prisoners is Hamas interested in having released this time ? ]

Earlier this month, the Haaretz daily reported that Hamas has repeatedly in recent months expressed willingness through several channels to enter into talks with Israel over a long-term ceasefire.

The report said that in return for such a truce, Hamas wants Israel to significantly ease the blockade over Gaza, approve large-scale infrastructure projects, and possibly agree to a prisoner swap deal.

Hamas, an Islamist terror group that seeks to destroy Israel, has made similar proposals in the past.

The reports follow several indications that Hamas is deeply divided as it seeks a way out of the dire situation in Gaza, where it seized power in 2007. The Strip faces an economic crisis, sanctions from the Ramallah-based Palestinian Authority, continued pressure from the Israeli-Egyptian security blockade, and rising internal unrest.

(full article online)

Hamas says Israel rejected its offers for prisoner exchange deal


----------



## Sixties Fan

Of course, the primary mission was to prevent hundreds of thousands of Gazans from infiltrating into our territory. That kind of invasion would be perilous, mortally dangerous, to the nearby communities; would permit terrorists disguised as civilians to enter our kibbutz and moshav communities, and would leave us with no choice but to target every single infiltrator. That’s why our soldiers were directed to prevent infiltration, in a variety of ways, using live ammunition only as a last resort.

The IDF employs many creative means of reducing friction with Gazans and uses numerous methods, most of which are not made public, to prevent them from reaching the fence. In addition, over the past few weeks there have been serious efforts to save the lives of children and civilians who have been pushed to the front lines by the Hamas, who are trying to hide behind them in order to infiltrate and attack Israel.

When there is no alternative, and live ammunition must be used to stop those who storm the fence, the soldiers make heroic and sometimes dangerous efforts not to kill and to only injure those on the other side. The IDF stations senior commanders at every confrontation point to ensure that every shot is approved and backed up by a responsible figure with proper authority. Every staging area has an especially large number of troops in order to make sure that soldiers are not put into life-threatening situations where they will have no choice but to fire indiscriminately.




(full article online)

I was at the Gaza border, we did all we could to avoid killing


----------



## Sixties Fan

TOI reports:

" Several homes in the Israeli city of Sderot were hit by machine gun fire, apparently fired by terrorists in the Gaza Strip, causing damage but no injuries, in one of three cross-border exchanges on Wednesday, the army said. According to the city of Sderot, the shots were aimed at an army aircraft that had been flying overhead, and the bullets struck the homes as they fell back down to earth."


 The Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, the "military wing" of Fatah which is headed by Palestinian dictator Mahmoud Abbas, takes credit for this - and doesn't mention anything about targeting aircraft. They claim that they shot at an Israeli patrol as well as the town of Sderot directly, calling it "an initial response to the massacre committed by the occupation against peaceful demonstrators in the eastern Gaza Strip."

(full article online)

Mahmoud Abbas' "non-violent" Fatah claims responsibility for machine gun fire that hit Sderot ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The baby was literally at the border fence at the time, taken by her 12-year old nephew towards his grandmother who was there.

Reliefweb is a UN-run website that says, "We provide reliable and timely information, enabling humanitarian workers to make informed decisions and to plan effective response. We collect and deliver key information, including the latest reports, maps and infographics from trusted sources."

One of their "trusted sources" is Islamic Relief, a UK-based NGO, which issued this statement reproduced on the UN site:

" Over 50 Palestinians have been killed in Israeli gunfire over the past few days, including an eight-month-old baby, and more than 2,700 people have been injured. The victims have been involved in largely peaceful protests near the Israeli border which have come under fire."

No one on the planet claims that the girl was shot - except a UK-based NGO with links to Hamas.

This is what the UN considers to be "reliable and timely information."

(full article online)

UN site falsely claims Israel shot and killed 8 month old girl ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Those same ‘useful idiots’ talk of the 2014 conflict in the same way also saying ‘Hamas won the PR war’. Yet Hamas have been scared to fire rockets ever since. The standing of Hamas has been devastated by the events of the last few years. Have you noticed how quiet the other Palestinians have been during this confrontation? Can you imagine this twenty years ago? The streets of Nablus and Jenin and East Jerusalem would have been burning in solidarity. They aren’t, because Hamas have already LOST the PR war where it matters. Hamas are left sending their forces to the border to cause trouble because they have no other option.

Israel is in the business of defending its citizens, Hamas and Hezbollah are in the business of killing Israeli citizens. So given the lack of casualties on both borders since the last major conflicts, Israel did what it set out to do. This I think was the best tweet of recent days:

(full article online)

Gaza, Hamas and why I won't be criticising Israel today

http://david-collier.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/FRANK.jpg


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian National and Islamic Forces Committee has called on residents of Judea, Samaria, and Gaza to confront “Israeli occupation forces” with violent demonstrations this Friday.

The riots are scheduled to take place immediately after Friday prayers. The Muslim month of Ramadan began Wednesday night.

The PNIF committee declared this coming Friday the “Friday of Loyalty to Martyrs”.

“The occupier knows that our land, which has been sown by the martyrs, will always be forbidden to [Israel],” the committee said in its announcement.

(full article online)

Mass riots planned for Judea and Samaria Friday


----------



## Sixties Fan

In truth, as their organizers made plain from day one, the mass border protests are being mounted not against the “occupation” of Gaza, or the blockade on Gaza. For all the misreporting, they were planned and are being held with the undisguised goal of putting an end to the State of Israel, the world’s only Jewish state, whose legitimacy in any borders Hamas rejects. Hence the particularly large mobilization in outraged opposition to the legitimizing of Israeli Jerusalem as signified by the new US embassy; hence the particular resonance of Nakba day.

“March of Return.” It’s right there in the name. The people of Gaza are being mobilized by their terrorist rulers for a “return.” They are being assured by their leadership that this “return” is imminent. That their “homeland” will soon be restored. That the Nakba will be reversed. And that those of them who lose their lives in violence at the border in the cause of that “return” will find their place in paradise as martyrs to their divinely blessed struggle.

The world owes it to them to shatter this illusion. And there’s a straightforward means of doing so.

(full article online)

World must tell Gaza’s Hamas-abused masses the truth: There will be no ‘return’


----------



## montelatici

That's exactly what people under foreign occupation should do.  Make life for the occupier as difficult as possible. How are the Palestinians any different than people under Nazi occupation?


----------



## montelatici

Sixties Fan said:


> In truth, as their organizers made plain from day one, the mass border protests are being mounted not against the “occupation” of Gaza, or the blockade on Gaza. For all the misreporting, they were planned and are being held with the undisguised goal of putting an end to the State of Israel, the world’s only Jewish state, whose legitimacy in any borders Hamas rejects. Hence the particularly large mobilization in outraged opposition to the legitimizing of Israeli Jerusalem as signified by the new US embassy; hence the particular resonance of Nakba day.
> 
> “March of Return.” It’s right there in the name. The people of Gaza are being mobilized by their terrorist rulers for a “return.” They are being assured by their leadership that this “return” is imminent. That their “homeland” will soon be restored. That the Nakba will be reversed. And that those of them who lose their lives in violence at the border in the cause of that “return” will find their place in paradise as martyrs to their divinely blessed struggle.
> 
> The world owes it to them to shatter this illusion. And there’s a straightforward means of doing so.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> World must tell Gaza’s Hamas-abused masses the truth: There will be no ‘return’



Of course there will be a return of the non-Jews.  The Jews now are maintaining control over a population of non-Jews slightly larger than their own.  As the non-Jew  population becomes proportionally larger, the situation will become untenable and control will slowly slip from the hands of the Jews. The non-Jews will eventually return to the land of their ancestors.  You can't defeat demographics.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The aid included IV fluids, bandages, pediatric equipment and disinfectants, as well as fuel for hospital generators.

 "The Hamas-led organizers of the Palestinian protests along the Gaza border confirmed that they would not accept medicine “from the murderers of our people,” despite the widespread shortages of medical supplies in the coastal enclave.

The terrorist group accused Israel of “trying to improve its black image” by sending the humanitarian aid."


This is again a manifestation of the Arab honor/shame mentality, where appearances are more important than reality, and "honor" is more important than life itself. 

On the flip side, Arabs will make a big deal about how much they are helping their brethren in Gaza - and do little.

The most glaring example is Egypt, whose president Abdel Fattah al-Sisi publicly instructed his country to accept injured people from Gaza for treatment.

Even though the Gaza Health Ministry claims 2700 people were injured, 1360 by gunfire, so far Egypt has accepted only three people for medical treatment.

(full article online)

Hamas refuses medical supplies from Israel - an honor/shame story ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Behind The Smoke Screen


----------



## Sixties Fan

[   500 years of Ottoman rule and occupation .......no Arab League.  Jews recreate their Nation on their own homeland........ ]

Arab League chief Ahmed Abul Gheit on Thursday called for an international probe into alleged "crimes" committed by Israeli security forces against Arab rioters and terrorists during mass infiltration attempts along the Israel-Gaza frontier on Monday.

"We call for a credible international investigation into the crimes committed by the occupation," Abul Gheit said at the opening session of an extraordinary meeting of Arab foreign ministers in Cairo to discuss Israel's response to the infiltration attempts.

(full article online)

Arab League demands international probe into IDF


----------



## Sixties Fan

Eight weeks in Gaza: What did the ‘Great March of Return’ accomplish?


----------



## Sixties Fan

The New York Times has a backgrounder on the Gaza protests and the fence, which it claims is the source of the unrest.




The article briefly touches on the word "return" but downplays that as well:

 Why is the conflict flaring up now?

The “March of Return,” as Palestinians are calling the protest campaign that began in March, was intended by its creators to publicize global awareness that about two-thirds of Gaza residents are considered Palestinian refugees.

(full article online)

NYT latest to ignore the goal of the riots - to overrun Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

In 2007, Hamas took control of Gaza in a bloody coup against its rivals in the Fatah faction. Since then, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and other terrorist groups in the Strip have fired nearly 10,000 rockets and mortars from Gaza into Israel — all the while denouncing an economic “blockade” that is Israel’s refusal to feed the mouth that bites it. (Egypt and the Palestinian Authority also participate in the same blockade, to zero international censure.)

In 2014 Israel discovered that Hamas had built 32 tunnels under the Gaza border to kidnap or kill Israelis. “The average tunnel requires 350 truckloads of construction supplies,” The Wall Street Journal reported, “enough to build 86 homes, seven mosques, six schools or 19 medical clinics.” Estimated cost of tunnels: $90 million.

Want to understand why Gaza is so poor? See above.

Which brings us to the grotesque spectacle along Gaza’s border over the past several weeks, in which thousands of Palestinians have tried to breach the fence and force their way into Israel, often at the cost of their lives. What is the ostensible purpose of what Palestinians call “the Great Return March”?

That’s no mystery. This week, The Times published an op-ed by Ahmed Abu Artema, one of the organizers of the march. “We are intent on continuing our struggle until Israel recognizes our right to return to our homes and land from which we were expelled,” he writes, referring to homes and land within Israel’s original borders.

His objection isn’t to the “occupation” as usually defined by Western liberals, namely Israel’s acquisition of territories following the 1967 Six Day War. It’s to the existence of Israel itself. Sympathize with him all you like, but at least notice that his politics demand the elimination of the Jewish state.

(full article online)

Opinion | Gaza’s Miseries Have Palestinian Authors


----------



## Sixties Fan

1) People have a right to peacefully protest! (Indeed they do. But there are plenty of people here who are taking butcher knives and firebombs and guns to storm the border and kill and kidnap Israeli civilians.)



2) There is no evidence of that! (Yes there is. There are Arabic Facebook pages and interviews and photos.)

3) But it's not all the Gazans who are doing that! (Right. And it's not all the Gazans who are being shot!)

4) Israel is just trying to kill as many Gazans as possible! (If it was, there would be carnage like in Syria. Israel is trying to avoid killing Gazans - aside from anything else, it is politically very damaging.)

(full article online)

Rationalist Judaism: The Top Ten Stupidest Criticisms of Israel's Actions on the Gaza Border


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Throughout history there have been at least 150 blood libels – a false charge against Jews that they kidnapped Christian children and used their blood for religious rites. Following these hateful lies, in almost every case, Jews were murdered, either by a mob, or following torture and a trial. The number of Jewish victims is in the hundreds of thousands.





Today we are witnessing another blood libel – from journalists not only in the Arab world, but also in the West.

Holding positions of incredible influence, the reporters tweet blasé from safe spaces ignoring context and facts. Incredulously, they deem it fitting to sympathize with the worlds richest terror group, savages who prey on victimhood – those have sworn to “tear out the hearts of the Jews.” These journalists show no impartiality, and many are even offended that, so far, Israel has lost no lives.

In doing so, these journalists are irresponsibly and dangerously lancing a boil, and the pus of the world’s oldest hatred is pouring out.

In the name of “journalism,” a blood libel is happening in front of our eyes.

Shame on them all. Every. Single. One.

In The Name of Journalism


----------



## Sixties Fan

If 100 Jewish bodies were strewn across southern Israel, would the American left more readily forgive Israel’s defensive actions against an angry mob of tens of thousands propelled by the murderous, anti-Semitic terrorists of Hamas?

(full article online)

If you call the Gaza death toll 'disproportionate,' how many Israelis have to die for the sake of symmetry? | Opinion


----------



## Sixties Fan

https://www.thejc.com/comment/comme...rder-now-i-am-the-one-who-is-ashamed-1.464233


----------



## Hollie

I can’t help but notice the tone of comments coming from the Islamic terrorist kingpins representing Hamas. The Tire Burning Riots have devolved into just another flotilla’ish publicity stunt.

The earlier “hair-on-fire” calls to gee-had are now a lot of blustering claims as Hamas intends to backpedal from what was a huge waste of time.


HAMAS LEADER IN GAZA YAHYA SINWAR: OUR PEOPLE TOOK OFF THEIR MILITARY UNIFORMS AND JOINED THE MARCHES; WE DECIDED TO TURN THE BODIES OF OUR WOMEN AND CHILDREN INTO A DAM BLOCKING ARAB COLLAPSE

"Hamas Leader in Gaza Yahya Sinwar: Our People Took Off Their Military Uniforms and Joined the Marches; We Decided to Turn the Bodies of Our Women and Children into a Dam Blocking Arab Collapse"


----------



## Sixties Fan

A video taken by the Center for Near East Policy Research at an UNRWA school and refugee camp in the Gaza Strip allegedly shows that UNRWA encourages anti-Semitism and the realization of the 'right of return' through violent means.

In the video, which was presented to _Fox News_by journalist David Bedein, children at an UNRWA-run school are seen gathered at a school assembly while repeatedly chanting 'Jerusalem is ours' before Monday's violent riots at the Gaza border.

Students can also be seen burning Israeli flags.

One student said that the school teaches students "how to defend the land, how to recapture the land."

Another student said that "what was taken by force will be returned by force, with jihad and all its means."

A third student was explicit in the means by which the 'right of return' would be achieved: "with weapons, stabbings, and car ramming."

UNRWA reportedly closed its schools in Gaza on Monday and Tuesday, allowing students to participate in the riots at the Gaza border. At least 40,000 people participated in the riots, in which at least 60 people were killed. The majority of those killed were confirmed to be members of Hamas by the terrorist organization itself.

(vide video online)

New video purportedly shows UN influence in Gaza clashes


----------



## Sixties Fan

6 days after rioters burn crossing, Gaza’s fuel lines to partially reopen


----------



## Sixties Fan

A kibbutz in southern Israel found a positive way to respond to the destruction of one of its fields by a “kite bomb” flown across the border from the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip earlier this week, the Hebrew news site Mako reported.

On Thursday evening, the children of Kibbutz Sa’ad flew 250 kites carrying messages of “peace and love” in a wheat field next to one that was burned.

“Every year at Shavuot, we hold a ceremony, after which our harvesters go out and reap the wheat,” kibbutz official Efrat Shlomi told Mako. “When we were preparing for the ceremony, we were hearing all the time about burning kites, and then this week one came to us, burning a 50-dunam wheat field that was ready for harvest.”

“We wanted to bring something good and light to a period of stress and worry, so we added kites to the ceremony,” she added. “But instead of kites of hate, these are kites of peace and love.”

(full article online)

Children at Israeli Kibbutz Near Gaza Border Fly Kites of ‘Peace and Love’


----------



## Sixties Fan

.@MattiFriedman  is right and @lisang is wrong: Hamas did plan the protests this week to coincide with the US Embassy opening in Jerusalem ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Confirmation that Hamas members were told to take off their uniforms, to appear to be civilians, came from Hamas head Yahya Sinwar's statement in an interview:.

Picture the scene: real Gaza civilians, including women and children, are dispatched to the fence. Some of them, in their enthusiasm, try to cut the fence itself - including a 14 year old girl who was given the wire cutters from some unknown person.

Yet nearly 90% of those killed happened to be members of the (say) 4% from terror groups, members disguised as civilians, and possibly not at the fence itself but behind the scenes, directing the action.

Behind huge walls of smoke from burning tires that were specifically set to protect the ringleaders from IDF snipers.

It is astonishing accuracy.

It shows that the Israeli snipers are incredible at identifying potentially deadly behaviors and neutralizing them, while avoiding the tens of thousands of people deployed as chaff to hide the Hamas activities.

(full article online)

The IDF really is the most moral army in history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

What if the Israelis didn’t shoot?


----------



## Sixties Fan

The full speech at UNHRC


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Why did islamics bring kids to their war zone?


----------



## Sixties Fan

One might have expected this statement — “I am giving you an official figure,” Bardawil stressed. “Fifty of the martyrs in the recent battle were from Hamas” — to resonate globally, and dramatically undercut Hamas’s claim that Israel murdered innocent people in cold blood, the narrative widely reported worldwide.





Hamas’s Salah Bardawil (right) acknowledges 50 Hamas fatalities among the 62 killed on Israel-Gaza border, May 16, 2018 (Screenshot)


The allegation of indiscriminate killing by Israel of innocent Gazan civilians was central to media coverage — in the United States and Europe, and certainly in the Middle East. Hamas defeated Israel by a knockout in terms of propaganda, which is no less important to the terror group than its other activities. Throughout Monday, television coverage of the violence dominated the news; Tuesday’s funerals ensured more coverage — all overwhelmingly sympathetic to Hamas-run Gaza, again turning Israel into a pariah in the eyes of much of the world.

But the same media that had rushed to publicize Israel’s ostensible “war crimes” gave little prominence to Bardawil’s admission.

(full article online)

Why Hamas beat a tactical retreat after near-descent into full war with Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

Gaza massacre should be a turning point for British Jews


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Gaza massacre should be a turning point for British Jews


A far away "freelance journalist"  giving an OPINION about what he does not know AT ALL.

Thanks Tinman


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Gaza massacre should be a turning point for British Jews



Actually, the Hamas Tire.Burning Riots have reached a turning point for islamics. 

You might have noticed (or not), that the riots have largely been abandoned by islamics. 

Is it time for another flotilla?


----------



## Sixties Fan

LIE 1: Nas says he “can’t stand with Israel because Israel is doing something wrong.” 

What is Israel doing wrong? Absolutely nothing.

Israel is defending her sovereign borders. Any country in the world would do the same and with much more force. It would be easy to just drop one big bomb, kill everyone and there would be no more riots. Instead the IDF is resolutely standing and keeping the border, stopping only the few who are absolutely necessary. It would be very easy to not get shot – just stay away from the fence. 
LIE 2: Nas says he “can’t stand with Palestine either because Palestine is doing something wrong.”

Palestine is a non-existent country. This is not one country against another country. 

What _does_ is exist is a terrorist entity ruled by Hamas, terrorizing Israelis and Gazans alike. The real equation is country against terrorist entity like America vs AL Qaeda on 9/11 or the Allied Forces vs ISIS
LIE 3: Nas says that “if you stand with one side only, you are wrong” because it’s not black and white. 

It actually is black and white. There is right and wrong here and if you can’t tell the difference between the two you have a real problem.

(full article online)

Nas Daily, not so nice (Forest Rain) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza massacre should be a turning point for British Jews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Hamas Tire.Burning Riots have reached a turning point for islamics.
> 
> You might have noticed (or not), that the riots have largely been abandoned by islamics.
> 
> Is it time for another flotilla?
Click to expand...

There is one coming from ........  Sweden.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Terror group's chief Haniyeh met Egyptian officials, reached agreement to de-escalate protests, armed activity near border in return for various relief measures, Lebanese Al Akhbar paper reports; reopening of Rafah crossing said to be part of agreement; Hamas said to delay reply, only consenting to deal following Monday's death toll; if agreement is not upheld, Hamas threatens a return to violence.

(full article online)

Hamas secures Egyptian humanitarian relief in return for dialing back protests


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ As always, for the past ten years during Ramadan.......Attack !!! ]

Some 1,000 Palestinians are taking part in clashes on the Gaza border, the army says, with demonstrators burning tires and throwing rocks at troops.






A Palestinian uses a slingshot during clashes with Israeli forces along the border with the Gaza Strip, east of Gaza City, on May 18, 2018. (AFP Photo/Mahmud Hams)

(full article online)

Gazans throw rocks, burn tires in fresh border clashes


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Speech made by Colonel Richard Kemp at the emergency session of the United Nations Human Rights Council on the deteriorating situation in Gaza on 18 May 2018
------

I commanded British troops in Afghanistan, Iraq, the Balkans and Northern Ireland and served with NATO and the UN. I’ve come straight from the Gaza front line to share my assessment.

Based on what I observed, I can say that everything we just heard here is a complete distortion of the truth. The truth is that Hamas, a terrorist organization that seeks the destruction of Israel and murder of Jews everywhere, deliberately caused over 60 of its own people to get killed.

(full article online)

Gaza: distortion of the truth - Colonel Richard Kemp


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> [ As always, for the past ten years during Ramadan.......Attack !!! ]
> 
> Some 1,000 Palestinians are taking part in clashes on the Gaza border, the army says, with demonstrators burning tires and throwing rocks at troops.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Palestinian uses a slingshot during clashes with Israeli forces along the border with the Gaza Strip, east of Gaza City, on May 18, 2018. (AFP Photo/Mahmud Hams)
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gazans throw rocks, burn tires in fresh border clashes



Well, it is Islam's "holy month".

What better to way to worship a desert Arab warlord than to use his example of violence, hatreds and mayhem as a model for today's violent, hateful and mayhem causing Islamo-yutes?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas defined the day of violent clashes at Israel’s border with Gaza on May 14, 2018, during which some 59 Palestinians were claimed to have been killed, as proof of a victory for jihad and the armed struggle against Israel.
It openly admitted these were not spontaneous demonstrations but a campaign orchestrated by Hamas.
On May 14, Hamas explained the goals of the “Great Return March,” which are the elimination of the State of Israel and ethnically cleansing any Jewish presence from the land:
“Our people set out today to react to the new American Zionist aggression and to tell the world with its blood and limbs that it is the one that will draw the map of return and the map of victories.”
“The blood that has been spilled in resisting this crime will arouse a revolution until the occupation is removed, and the embassy is removed from Palestine forever.”
If, in the past, Hamas counted its victories according to the number of Israeli casualties, today it measures victory according to the number of Palestinian casualties.

(full article online)

Why Is Hamas So Interested in Palestinian Deaths?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Why do Arabs-Moslems whine like petulant children when the wars they start lead to humiliating losses?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



It seems ironic that islamics would condemn the killing of islamics when it was islamics who started the conflict.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Why the whining? Hamas encouraged war-like actions and offered payment to those islamics who attacked Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Well, it looks like Musa Abuhassanin aka Musa Jabr Abu Hasanin was not an innocent paramedic as Loubani would have us believe. He was a Hamas terrorist.

According to the poster released by Hamas, he was a Captain (verified by an Arabic speaking friend of mine)





Here he is again, bottom left. As you can see, he is not exactly dressed as a medic here either.






(full article online)

Busted! Palestinian “Medic” Killed Was a Hamas Terrorist


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shockingly, Friedman ignored Cooper's attempt and targeted Hamas instead, saying:

You know, the whole thing, Anderson, is just like diplomatic pornography from beginning to end. Let’s start with Hamas and Gaza. I mean, it was an act of human sacrifice. I’m sorry, when you throw thousands of your youth, the flower of your youth against an Israeli fence, supposedly to get into Israel, some of them surrounded by armed Hamas fighters, it was inevitable that a lot of people were gonna get killed. Israel was not going to open the border to them and Hamas knew that, and this was entirely designed by Hamas to distract the attention of the world, not to mention the Middle East.


(full article online)

SHOCKER: Even Leftist Thomas Friedman Rips Hamas, Says They Committed 'An Act Of Human Sacrifice'


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Well, it looks like Musa Abuhassanin aka Musa Jabr Abu Hasanin was not an innocent paramedic as Loubani would have us believe. He was a Hamas terrorist.
> 
> According to the poster released by Hamas, he was a Captain (verified by an Arabic speaking friend of mine)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here he is again, bottom left. As you can see, he is not exactly dressed as a medic here either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Busted! Palestinian “Medic” Killed Was a Hamas Terrorist


Fuck your bullshit smear campaign.  The guy was a medic.  Your claim he was a terrorist is total bullshit.  

From your link...

_About an hour after he rescued me, he was trying to get another patient, and ended up getting shot in the chest._​Deliberately targeting people giving care to the wounded, is a war crime.


----------



## Billo_Really

Here are all the groups that say the blockade is still an occupation...

_Amnesty International, the World Health Organization, Oxfam, the International Committee of the Red Cross, The United Nations, the United Nations General Assembly, the UN Fact Finding Mission to Gaza, international human rights organizations, US government websites, the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office, and the majority of legal commentators (eg Geoffrey Aronson, Meron Benvenisti, Claude Bruderlein, Sari Bashi and Kenneth Mann, Shane Darcy and John Reynolds, Yoram Dinstein, John Dugard, Marc S. Kaliser, Mustafa Mari, Iain Scobbie, and Yuval Shany) *maintain that Israel’s extensive direct external control over Gaza, and indirect control over the lives of its internal population mean that Gaza remains occupied. *_​And the only argument Israels minions can come up with, is that all these unrelated groups are Jew haters?


----------



## fncceo

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it looks like Musa Abuhassanin aka Musa Jabr Abu Hasanin was not an innocent paramedic as Loubani would have us believe. He was a Hamas terrorist.
> 
> According to the poster released by Hamas, he was a Captain (verified by an Arabic speaking friend of mine)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here he is again, bottom left. As you can see, he is not exactly dressed as a medic here either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Busted! Palestinian “Medic” Killed Was a Hamas Terrorist
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck your bullshit smear campaign.  The guy was a medic.  Your claim he was a terrorist is total bullshit.
> 
> From your link...
> 
> _About an hour after he rescued me, he was trying to get another patient, and ended up getting shot in the chest._​Deliberately targeting people giving care to the wounded, is a war crime.
Click to expand...


Rant and rave, scream and shout, stamp your feet and hold your breath but you can't do anything to change ...

1.  Israel isn't going anywhere
2.  The conflict between the Palestinians and the Israelis will only be resolved by them.
3.  The eventual resolution of this conflict will be through honest negotiation between the two parties.


----------



## Billo_Really

fncceo said:


> Rant and rave, scream and shout, stamp your feet and hold your breath but you can't do anything to change ...
> 
> 1.  Israel isn't going anywhere
> 2.  The conflict between the Palestinians and the Israelis will only be resolved by them.
> 3.  The eventual resolution of this conflict will be through honest negotiation between the two parties.


There's nothing to negotiate.  Israel simply needs to obey international law and get the fuck off land it doesn't own.


----------



## fncceo

Billo_Really said:


> There's nothing to negotiate. Israel simply needs to obey international law and get the fuck off land it doesn't own.



How's that strategy working out for you?


----------



## Billo_Really

fncceo said:


> How's that strategy working out for you?


So you think it is okay to thumb your nose at international law and human rights?


----------



## fncceo

Billo_Really said:


> So you think it is okay to thumb your nose at international law and human rights?



You think someone broke international law ... call an international cop.


----------



## Billo_Really

fncceo said:


> You think someone broke international law ... call an international cop.


That wasn't the question.  Are you going to answer it?  Yes or no?


----------



## fncceo

Billo_Really said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> You think someone broke international law ... call an international cop.
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't the question.  Are you going to answer it?  Yes or no?
Click to expand...


Laws are created by an elected legislature, ratified by an elected executive, overseen and enforced by an accountable judiciary.

Laws are not, and never will be, the result of a mandate from the mob.


----------



## Billo_Really

fncceo said:


> Laws are created by an elected legislature, ratified by an elected executive, overseen and enforced by an accountable judiciary.
> 
> Laws are not, and never will be, the result of a mandate from the mob.


You're calling the UN a "mob"?


----------



## fncceo

Billo_Really said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Laws are created by an elected legislature, ratified by an elected executive, overseen and enforced by an accountable judiciary.
> 
> Laws are not, and never will be, the result of a mandate from the mob.
> 
> 
> 
> You're calling the UN a "mob"?
Click to expand...


The UN is not elected.  The UN has no oversight.  There is no basis of appeal from UN decisions.  The UN is rife with hate-based power blocks that create edicts that have not basis in law and cannot be enforced. The UN is a well-finance mob.

That being said, Israel has complied with the literal interpretation of each and every enforceable mandate that has been spewed from the maw of the UN.


----------



## Sixties Fan

MEMRI TV Compilation (Long Version): Gaza "March Of Return [Into Israel]" Clips – Calls For Jihad & Martyrdom, Chants Of Anti-Semitic Slogans And Incitement


----------



## fncceo

In the interest of full disclosure ... those who support fighting 'occupation' need to admit that ...

... the territory they considered occupied is every square inch of Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

To the Arab residents of the Gaza Strip,

We lived together, side by side, for 30 years. The Jews of Gush Katif and the Arabs of the Gaza Strip. In the early years, Deir El-Balah residents would come over to neighboring Kfar Darom to participate in family celebrations. There was no mikveh (ritual bath) in Kfar Darom and every Friday, I would walk the length of the Deir El-Balah camp by myself to the sea. I was greeted by the Gazan fishermen who spoke Hebrew; they wished me a Shabbat Shalom.

The elder Abu Halil and his brother, the mayor, who belonged to the el-Aziza clan, would come and drink tea with me in my house, I remember that you added five teaspoons of sugar to each cup. When you came to celebrate Ben-Saadon’s wedding, you asked if you were permitted to touch wine belonging to Jews.

When we moved to Gadid, there was no pharmacy and we bought Materna baby milk formula in Khan Yunis. We did our weekly shopping for Shabbat at the Khan Yunis shuk, buying fruit and vegetables and fresh fish. All the vendors would greet me, “Ahalan to the mukhtar of the Jews.” We drove our car to Khan Yunis for its annual vehicle inspection, and took our driving test there too.

You get the general picture of how our lives were intertwined — Jews and Arabs living and working side by side. I know it sounds unbelievable, but for some five years, we lived in utopia, speaking Hebrew and Arabic.

Then, one day, Yasser Arafat was brought over from Algeria to Gaza. He was sent to you to make peace with us.

(full article online)

To the youth of Gaza: It wasn’t always like this


----------



## Sixties Fan

A former commander of British military forces in Afghanistan told the UN Human Rights Council on Friday that IDF troops should be commended for saving the lives of Palestinians during the violent rioting on the Israel-Gaza Strip border earlier this week.

“If Israel had allowed these mobs to break through the fence, the IDF would then have been forced to defend their own civilians from slaughter and many more Palestinians would have been killed,” Col. Richard Kemp told a special meeting of the UNHRC in Geneva on the Gaza clashes.

“Israel’s actions therefore saved lives of Gazans, and if this council really cared about human rights, it should commend the IDF for that, not condemn them on the basis of lies,” Kemp continued.

Kemp — who also served with the British army in Iraq and the Balkans, and is an expert in counter-terrorism strategies — accused Hamas of having “sent thousands of civilians to the front line — as human shields for terrorists trying to break through the border.”

He added: “I ask every country in this council: You have all been telling us that Israel should have reacted differently. But how would you respond if a jihadist terror group sent thousands to flood your borders, and gunmen to massacre your communities?”

(full article online)

Israel Should Be ‘Commended’ for Saving Palestinian Lives on Gaza Border, Former UK Military Commander Tells UN Meeting


----------



## Hollie

With all the pointless bluster and slogans coming from islamic terrorists to include:
”the Palestinian revolution will not cease until victory or martyrdom!"

The chant they should have chosen was:
_”the Palestinian revolution will not cease until victory or martyrdom... or not!”_



"Activists Use "Firebomb Kites" to Set Fire to Israeli Fields and Houses: Hundreds of Kites Will Be Flown toward the Enemies - Scenes from Gaza "Return March"" 


On April 27, Al-Aqsa TV aired footage of the "Fence Cutters' Unit" in Gaza. In it, masked members of the unit stood brandishing wire cutters and chanted: "Khaybar, Khaybar, oh Jews, the army of Muhammad has begun to return." One of the members proclaimed, "Today, we cut the Zionist enemy's main barbed wire fence on the Gaza border," and declared that "this enemy is destined for perdition." Warning Israeli settlers to "leave immediately, before it is too late," he said that "the Palestinian revolution will not cease until victory or martyrdom!"


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

*Today*
Within a short amount of time, the Hamas took over the entire Gaza Strip.  They then took the millions of dollars in foreign aid and spent almost all of it on building a massive terrorist infrastructure.  They built terror networks and kept the local population poor, angry, and ready to fight Israel.  There is no reason that the Gaza Strip is not an oasis of tourism or an agricultural success like it was when Israel built it up.  It is simply a mini terror-state because Hamas wants it that way.  It’s that simple.

(full article and video online)

Hamas is killing Gaza, and the world is dead silent


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> *Today*
> Within a short amount of time, the Hamas took over the entire Gaza Strip.  They then took the millions of dollars in foreign aid and spent almost all of it on building a massive terrorist infrastructure.  They built terror networks and kept the local population poor, angry, and ready to fight Israel.  There is no reason that the Gaza Strip is not an oasis of tourism or an agricultural success like it was when Israel built it up.  It is simply a mini terror-state because Hamas wants it that way.  It’s that simple.
> 
> (full article and video online)
> 
> Hamas is killing Gaza, and the world is dead silent


From Israel's premier bullshit organization.


----------



## Sixties Fan

In his opinion piece, the spokesperson responded to criticism he’s faced, both in Israel and abroad, over his handling of the the Gaza border clashes, with many seeing Hamas as the victor of the public relations war.

“Some of Israel’s greatest friends might have preferred that we had looked better in the media this past week, but between vanity and truth, the IDF always chooses truth,” Manelis said. “As the IDF spokesman, if I cannot source and cite material, I will not allow it to be published. I will not release any statement if the facts are in doubt.

“If in order to win the international propaganda war I need to lie like Hamas, then I prefer to tell the truth and lose. The IDF will win where it matters — protecting our civilians in the face of terror,” he wrote.

(full article online)

In WSJ op-ed, IDF spokesman says world ‘fell for Hamas lies’ in Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

*It is unmitigatedly maddening to see Western leaders – with the notable exception of American and Australian government leaders – succumb with equanimity to Hamas’ obvious criminal stuntsmanship on the Gaza border. What is Western support for “Israel’s right to exist within secure and recognized borders” worth if those borders cannot be defended?*





In a prophetic piece of punditry, penned in 2014 but ordained for this week, Charles Krauthammer wrote:

“To deliberately wage war so that your own people can be telegenically killed is indeed moral and tactical insanity. But it rests on a very rational premise: Given the Orwellian state of the world’s treatment of Israel, fueled by a mix of classic anti-Semitism, near-total historical ignorance and reflexive sympathy for the ostensible Third World underdog – eruptions featuring Palestinian casualties ultimately undermine support for Israel’s legitimacy and right to self-defense.”

“In a world of such Kafkaesque ethical inversions, the depravity of Hamas begins to make sense. The whole point is to draw Israeli counter-fire; to produce dead Palestinians for international television.”

And thus, it has been incredibly painful to hear global condemnations of Israel this week.

It is unmitigatedly maddening to see Western leaders – with the notable exception of American and Australian government leaders – succumb with equanimity to Hamas’ obvious criminal stuntsmanship on the Gaza border.

By acquiescing in Hamas’ exploitation of its own people’s blood in service of Palestinian rejectionism, they distance the day that peace might be possible.

(full article online)

Gaza prejudice and perfidy


----------



## Sixties Fan

Kaddish? Confessions of a Jew who is not sad Hamasniks are dead - Israel Diaries


----------



## Sixties Fan

The perversity of NPR’s language choices was showcased spectacularly by one particular Orwellian sentence describing would-be bombers as protesters: “The army says it killed three *protesters who were trying to set a bomb* next to the security fence in Rafah,” NPR reported. If only they wanted to buy discounted Nutella instead of bomb Israelis, the reporter might have had fewer misgivings about using accurate language. (Notwithstanding NPR’s characterization, the army used the word “terrorist,” not protester, to describe those setting the bomb.)

NPR is hardly the only outlet to insist rioting Palestinians, and even armed Hamas operatives, are mere protesters. In the past, _New York Times_reporters have referred to stone-throwing and arson attacks, from Berkeley to India, as riots. Gaza’s rioters, though, have been described as “protesters” and “demonstrators.”





Let’s be clear: There have been plenty of Palestinians, gathered around tents set up hundreds of yards from Gaza’s border with Israel, who can be described as peaceful protesters, despite their radical goal of “liberating” Israel from the Israelis. But it should be equally clear that those Palestinians are not the ones involved in clashes with Israeli soldiers, and not the ones described in media casualty counts. As the Associated Press had straightforwardly reported, “During the weekly Friday marches, most protesters have remained in the five sit-in tent camps, but smaller groups have moved toward the fence, throwing stones, hurling firebombs or burning tires.” Of particular concern to Israelis are the attempts, often by fighters from Hamas and other terror groups, to damage or cross the fence. The concern is warranted. Hamas is most well known for its deadly suicide bombing attacks targeting Israeli buses, cafes, and markets.

(full article online)

In Media’s Gaza, Rioters “Protest” and “Protesters” Riot | CAMERA


----------



## Sixties Fan

Terrorists infiltrate Israel from Gaza, lighting IDF sniper post on fire. In response, IDF tank attacks Hamas observation post in Gaza.

(full article online)

Gaza: Terrorists set fire to sniper post, IDF responds


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hand it to Hamas. As this week’s events in Gaza showed, the terrorist organization committed to Israel’s destruction can still manipulate the media into demonizing Israel for the legitimate actions it takes to defend itself.

Hamas’s four-step formula for success is by now familiar. First, get a media that is largely hostile toward Israel, simply ignorant or both to ignore Hamas’s genocidal goals and excuse its terrorism. Second, put Palestinian civilians in harm’s way. Third, force Israel, while defending itself, to kill some of those civilians. Fourth, rely on that same hostile and ignorant media to blame Israel for these deaths.

In Gaza, step one began some seven weeks ago. Hamas called for tens of thousands of Palestinians to join a weekly “March of Return” — effectively, the flooding of Israel with millions of the descendants of Palestinian refugees from the War of Independence (which five Arab nations started, promising to throw the Jews into the sea).

The March of Return was to culminate in a mid-May march on “Nakba” day, which Palestinians mark each year to remember the “catastrophe” of Israel’s creation.

Palestinian “marchers” were told to break down the security fence separating Gaza from Israel, a clear and present danger to all those living in Jewish communities only hundreds of yards from that fence.

Yahya Sinwar, the leader of Hamas in Gaza, could not have been clearer about his goals: “We will take down the border and tear out their hearts from their bodies.”

(full article online)

Opinion | Stop demonizing Israel for defending itself


----------



## Sixties Fan

WATCH: Responding to Linda Sarsour’s Latest Propaganda Video About Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

The AP’s “mass killing” claim comes as Matti Friedman, who served as an AP desk editor in Jerusalem in 2008, admitted in a New York Times oped that he used a manipulated Hamas “civilian” casualty count, incorporating Hamas fighters in the numbers:

Early in that war, I complied with Hamas censorship in the form of a threat to one of our Gaza reporters and cut a key detail from an article: that Hamas fighters were disguised as civilians and were being counted as civilians in the death toll. The bureau chief later wrote that printing the truth after the threat to the reporter would have meant “jeopardizing his life.” Nonetheless, we used that same casualty toll throughout the conflict and never mentioned the manipulation.

Hamas understood that Western news outlets wanted a simple story about villains and victims and would stick to that script, whether because of ideological sympathy, coercion or ignorance. The press could be trusted to present dead human beings not as victims of the terrorist group that controls their lives, or of a tragic confluence of events, but of an unwarranted Israeli slaughter. The willingness of reporters to cooperate with that script gave Hamas the incentive to keep using it.

(full article online)

Associated Press Labels Hamas Border Assault as ‘Mass Killing of Palestinians by Israel’


----------



## Sixties Fan

A _Times_ article first published on May 15 reports that 60 Gazans were killed during the classes, attributing that number to Palestinian officials. It goes on to say that, according to the Israeli army, "eight of the dead … were armed Hamas militants in civilian clothes who tried to storm the fence in northern Gaza and attacked Israeli forces with grenades and pipe bombs before being killed in a shootout" while another three were killed "while laying an explosive device." So far so good.

But if at least 11 of those killed were reportedly armed fighters engaged in hostilities, why do subsequent _New York Times_ pieces claim that "60 protesters" were killed that day? 

When CAMERA asked about this apparent misuse of language, the _Times_ insisted that its reporting on the events is accurate. When asked to clarify whether that means its reporters concluded, contrary to Israel's assertion, that none of the 60 killed were in fact shooting at Israelis or planting explosives, or if not whether it means the newspaper feels comfortable describing armed militants among the 60 dead as "protesters," editors declined to comment. 

It's a straightforward question, and it should be forthrightly answered. The _New York Times_ promises to treat readers it "as openly as possible." Other journalistic codes of ethics consider accountability to be a core ethical guideline. The Society of Professional Journalists code, for example, says journalists should "clarify and explain news coverage and invite dialogue with the public over journalistic conduct."

(full article online)

CAMERA Snapshots: Are Gaza Gunmen "Protesters"? NY Times Refuses to Say


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

In fact the main achievement of those border attacks is to remind Israelis—who left Gaza in 2005, abandoning their military bases and settlements there—that Hamas considers _all_ of Israel’s borders illegitimate. The dispute with Hamas isn’t over settlements or the “occupation” or Gaza itself. It is over Israel’s existence. In Gaza, the Islamist part of the Palestinian national movement does nothing to advance Palestinian interests, instead isolating its people from Egypt, Israel, the West Bank, and the rest of the world.

Hamas offers violence and nihilism, funded by Iran and dedicated to the fantasy of “return” to Israel across those border fences. But even using all the pressure it could muster, it could not gather more than 40,000 at the fences, significantly under its goal of 100,000. Nor was the reaction in the West Bank (which saw demonstrations of fewer than 2,000 people spread over a dozen or more sites) and in the Arab world as great as Hamas might have anticipated. The month of Ramadan began May 16 and may see a continuation of violence, and even perhaps expansion into another round of war between Israel and Hamas. But the underlying situation will not change: Hamas has turned Gaza into a prison for those it rules. It cannot achieve peace, or decent and normal lives for the people of Gaza, through violent confrontation with Israel.

(full article online)

The Real Palestinian Catastrophe


----------



## Sixties Fan

These were not college students sleeping in Lincoln Park in Chicago, 1968, in opposition to the war in Vietnam during the Democratic National Convention. Many of these violent rioters were actually paid by Hamas according to the extent of their injuries and the families of the _martyrs_ received thousands of dollars. They carried knives, hand-axes, meat cleavers, guns, children, and Molotov cocktails. They also flew kites with Nazi swastikas attached to incendiary devices for the purpose of burning fields and crops and houses, if not people.

Hamas even provided instructions on where the weak points of the barrier are, where the nearest Jewish villages are in reference to those weak points, and how to carry out the murder and kidnappings of Jewish civilians.

So, yes, the IDF was very restrained given the fact that these were people coming to kill their friends and families. But how would China react under similar circumstances, if crazed enemies were coming to kill Chinese babies? How would Russians react? I will tell you one thing, if Texans saw 50,000 Mexicans on the border of Laredo with guns and machetes and Molotov cocktails, shooting at the cops, and thousands of burning tires darkening the skies as they were screaming for the blood of American children... they would have shot them down like dogs.

There would not have been 60 dead. There would have been at least 600 dead, if not many more.

{Of course, Mexicans would never have brought their own children into a conflict with armed Texans.}

Nonetheless, Hamas wanted dead Arabs to parade before anti-Zionist cameras for the purpose of delegitimizing Israel and stoking hatred toward Jews and they got those dead Arabs, including children, and their families were paid for this atrocity. Nonetheless, this is causing well-meaning people throughout the world to honestly believe that Israel assaulted unarmed Arab men, women, and children. And why should they not believe it after so many decades of mainstream media suggestion of Jewish persecution of the "indigenous" Arabs and centuries of blood-libels and hate?

(full article online)

Gazan Waves (Mike Lumish) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Shusha

Hey. Here's an idea. As a test of proportionality, why don't Gazans stage a six week March against Hamas next?  Then we can compare fairly.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The twisted way Hamas views its children


----------



## Sixties Fan

" Even if those methods were to fail (and they haven’t been exhausted), Israel would be justified in using lethal force only if a border breach presents an imminent threat to life. Israeli troops and snipers currently fire from well-fortified positions inside Israel, behind two fences, and, in key locations, behind ditches dug to prevent border crossings. They receive footage from drones hovering over Gaza and have backup from additional personnel and equipment located farther inside Israel."


 Essentially, Bashi is arguing that Israel is too aggressive in stopping Gazans from cutting through the fence and pouring through the breach by the thousands - and then, even if thousands would rush through and aim towards Israeli communities, the IDF must wait until they take out their knives and raise their arms to stab Jews before the IDF can intervene.

How insane is that?

If the IDF would follow HRW's advice, it would be forced to kill hundreds of people, rather than the few dozen that were killed.

Moreover, Sari Bashi of course does not mention that even Hamas admits that the vast majority of those killed with Hamas members - which proves that Israeli snipers were only aiming to kill the militant organizers of the protests who were directing their human shields to breach the fence while Hamas -which openly admits its militants were disguised as civilians - would take advantage of the chaos to infiltrate Israel and kidnap Jews, its major military goal for years.

The entire riots are military operations to breach Israel's border, and civilians are used to cover the military aims.of Hamas. Arguably, the laws of war are the proper framework for Israel, not the laws of domestic police work as HRW tries to frame this.

Yet even under HRW's framework, Israel is doing everything possible to limit civilian deaths. Given that the number of civilians killed is quite small compared to the number of militant organizers, it is apparent that Israel's actions at the border saved far more civilian lives than HRW's proposed solution of waiting for the fence to be breached and for thousands of Gazans to attempt to run into Israel and enter civilian communities before the IDF can respond with deadly force.

(full article online)

HRW says Israel should let Gazans break through the fence, since they are no real danger ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

While Israel gets crucified for killing actual Hamas terrorists trying to infiltrate into Israel, something far worse is happening in Turkey under the radar of the media and most "human rights" NGOs.

" [Deadly] incidents have become increasingly common in the past three years since Turkey ended the open border policy it adopted when the Syrian civil war broke out in 2011. Since then, Turkey has erected a wall and fences along its 900-km border with Syria and sought to set up what it calls safe areas inside Syria for those displaced by the fighting.

The Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights reported last week that it had documentedmore than 360 cases of Syrian civilians killed by Turkish border guards between August 2015 and April 2018. Those casualties include 68 children and 32 women, it said.

Since the beginning of 2018, six civilians from the area of Ras al-Ayn have been killed and five wounded by Turkish border guards, according to officials at the local hospital where all of the victims were taken.

Of the six killed, four died trying to cross the border, while the remaining two were targeted while working in fields along the frontier, the officials said."
-------------

Turkey is doing exactly what the world is falsely accusing Israel of doing. Without the criticism.

There are major music concerts planned for Turkey in upcoming months, including Wiz Khalifa, Joe Satriani, Liam Gallagher and Imagine Dragons. No one is calling on these artists to boycott Turkey because it kills hundreds of civilians a year just on the Syrian border alone - not counting what else it does.

(full article online)

Turkey has killed hundreds of civilians - 100 women and children - trying to cross border from Syria, or working in adjacent fields ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

So when Hamas turns back medical essentials at a time that hospitals in Gaza don't have enough of the supplies it needs, it is unlikely Hamas expects to suffer the natural consequences of their actions.

After all, we are talking about the same terrorists who have no problem using their people as human shields.

In fact, we know that Hamas has no problem affording themselves the best medical treatment in the region - from Israel.

Former Hamas PM Haniyeh sets the example:

o  April 2012: Haniyeh's brother-in-law was treated in Israel for a serious cardiac episode that could not be treated in Gaza. According to Al Arabiya, Haniyeh's brother-in-law and his wife "had the option of going to a more advanced medical center in Egypt but chose to go to the Israeli hospital instead." Haniyeh did not stand in their way.

o  November 2013: Haniyeh's granddaughter was admitted Schneider Children’s Medical Center for Israel in Petah Tikva in serious condition for acute infection of the digestive tract.

o  June 2014: Haniyeh's mother-in-law was admitted to the Augusta Victoria Hospital in East Jerusalem, by the Mount of Olives

o  October 2014: One of Haniyeh's daughters was admitted to an Israeli hospital for emergency medical treatment after she suffered complications from a routine procedure.
Haniyeh is not alone.

In November 2014, the sister of Hamas senior official Moussa Abu Marzouk was treated in an Israeli hospital for cancer

Actually, Hamas does generally allow regular Gazans into Israel for medical treatment.

According to Israel's Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT), which coordinates with Palestinian authorities on border crossings, about 20,000 Gazans enter Israel per month, mainly for medical treatment.

(full article online)

How Far Will Hamas Go To Refuse Israeli Medical Care? (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Obviously viewers of this programme did not hear “a range of opinions” from its contributors and Shaun Ley’s rather lame efforts to present a different view did not include providing BBC audiences with essential information concerning the violent nature of the event under discussion and the fact that the majority of those described no fewer than three times as “unarmed protesters” were in fact linked to a terrorist organisation.

In those nine minutes viewers did however see two mentions of a “massacre”, two references to “slaughter”, one allegation of “indiscriminate execution” and two references to “murder” – as well as portrayal of Israel’s government as a “barbaric regime” –  all of which went completely unchallenged by the BBC presenter and with no right of reply afforded to the country accused of such acts.

(full article online)

BBC’s ‘Dateline London’ airs defamation of Israel but relevant facts concealed


----------



## P F Tinmore

*With All Eyes on Gaza, Israel Falls Back on the Hamas Card *


----------



## Hollie

The Hamas card?

Gaza Protests: 50 Hamas Terrorists Killed at Israel's Border | National Review


----------



## Sixties Fan

Now comes Friedman, in a May 23 New York Times op-ed:

history is full of such injustices and of refugees who have reconciled with them and moved on — not passed on their refugee status to their kids and their kids’ kids. It’s why so few Arabs, so few Europeans, so few anybody, rose to Hamas’s defense. People are fed up with it.

So the Times news columns imagine “widespread international anger,” “international censure,” “intensified international attention and censure,” and “the world paying attention.” Friedman, on the other hand, writes that “so few Arabs, so few Europeans, so few anybody, rose to Hamas’s defense. People are fed up with it.” These two depictions of reality, if not flat-out contradictory, are at least in tension with each other. My own sense is that on this particular point — measuring the scope, severity, and gravity of overall world reaction to the Gaza riots — Friedman has a more accurate perception of it and is closer to the truth of the matter than the Times news columns are.

(full article online)

Not Even Tom Friedman Believes New York Times Gaza News Coverage


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Health Ministry is run by Hamas - which rejected truckloads of medicines and medical supplies sent by Israel last week.

So while Hamas tries, and succeeds in telling the world that Israel is blocking needed goods to Gaza, it is in fact Hamas itself that is doing it.

Here is a cartoon from the Fatah website showing Israel locking out goods from Gaza for Ramadan:






Yet on Tuesday, despite Hamas directing Gaza youths to firebomb the Kerem Shalom goods crossing, Israel facilitated the transfer of over 14,000 tons of goods to Gaza.

(full article online)

Hamas Gaza health ministry complains of lack of medicines - as they reject shipments of medicines ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Czech FM: Hamas alone responsible for deadly Gaza violence


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Czech FM: Hamas alone responsible for deadly Gaza violence



Good.  Hamas needs to be held responsible for their actions.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Spokesperson says Layla al-Ghandour taken off list of those killed by Israel pending autopsy, amid suggestions she died of a congenital heart condition

(full article online)

Gaza health ministry removes baby from border clash death toll


----------



## Hollie

The Arabs-Moslems masquerading as “Pal’istanians” are literally and figuratively as much a danger to themselves as others.

FIREBOMB KITE SPINNING OUT OF CONTROL AND LANDING AMONG GAZA PROTESTERS ACCIDENTALLY CAUGHT BY TV CAMERA – SCENES FROM GAZA “RETURN MARCH”

Firebomb Kite Spinning Out of Control and Landing among Gaza Protesters Accidentally Caught by TV Camera – Scenes from Gaza “Return March


----------



## Sixties Fan

Two flimsy excuses are being bandied about in the mainstream media for the ongoing displays of hostility at the Gaza border.  


Both portray the inhabitants of Gaza as victims – either (a) as victims of their leadership and/or (b) as victims of Israel’s repressive blockade of the hapless enclave. 


With regard to the former, the Gazans are not the blameless victims of their leadership. 


Quite the opposite!  


They are the very crucible in which that leadership was formed, and from which it emerged.  


To underscore this, a poll, conducted less than a year ago by a leading Palestinian survey institute, found that 85% of Gazans supported maintaining payments to “security prisoners” (read “jailed terrorists”), who have murdered countless Israelis in cold blood.  


Israeli sympathies for the Gazans should, therefore, be tailored to these sentiments. 


*Confounding cause with consequence* 


Indeed, an up-to-date poll, conducted this month by the same Palestinian institute, showed that the Gazans display little remorse for their election of Hamas. Thus, according to its findings, in a future presidential election, Hamas’s Ismail Haniyeh would trounce incumbent Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah by almost two-to-one! 

These revealed preferences of the Gazan public bring us to the other purported “victimhood” claim regarding Israel’s security quarantine. 

The refrain currently being aired is that the violence manifested at the border is the result of pent up frustration of the public over the dire socio-economic conditions that prevail in the Gaza Strip: Largely undrinkable water, perennial power outages, raw sewage overflows and polluted beaches. The blame for this dismal condition is being laid at Israel’s doorstep for the alleged restrictions it imposes on the Gazan economy. Thus, according to this so-called “reasoning”, the only solution is the lifting, or at least the loosening, of the quarantine to alleviate the despair and desperation of the impoverished and suffering populace.

However, it is demonstrably and indisputably clear that the imposition of the quarantine on Gaza is the consequence—not the cause—of Arab enmity towards Israel. 

(full article online)

INTO THE FRAY: Swastikas over Gaza!


----------



## Sixties Fan

Smoke rises from Israeli agricultural fields near the Gaza Strip border, after being set on fire by a Molotov cocktail kite, May 14, 2018. 

The Kite terror from Gaza continued on Friday as a huge fire erupted in three different locations in the Kissufim area. Firefighting teams, JNF and rescue teams have yet to gain complete control as of noon time, and the strong winds that are blowing in the area make it difficult to conduct firefighting operations.

(full article online)

Watch Kites Terror: 3 Fires Rage in Kissufim Orchards near Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

Since March 30, tens of thousands of Palestinians have taken part in the weekly protests, which Israel says are orchestrated by Hamas and used as cover for attempted terror attacks and breaches of the border fence.

The violent demonstrations were meant to end on May 15, but Hamas leaders have said they want them to continue.

The largest blaze yet sparked by the firebomb-bearing kites happened two weeks ago near Kibbutz Be’eri, an Israeli community located some seven kilometers (4.3 miles) east of Gaza’s Bureij refugee camp. The fire took over six hours to extinguish and consumed dozens of dunams of grasslands and agricultural fields in the area.

Military planners have begun implementing new measures to combat the assaults, including options drawn from the IDF’s responses to rocket launches and other terror attacks.

(full article and map online)

Petrol bomb-laden kite causes huge blaze along Gaza border


----------



## Sixties Fan

Inane, again! Thomas Friedman on Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ "Do unto others......is not in the Arab Muslim vocabulary.  Definitely not in the Quran ]

An explosive device was hurled at IDF troops in northern Gaza on Friday evening, the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit said. No injuries were reported. In addition, attempts to sabotage security infrastructure occurred.

In another incident, approximately 1,600 rioters assembled along the security fence on the Gaza border. The rioters hurled rocks and burning tires. IDF troops responded with riot dispersal means and fire in accordance with standard operating procedures.

Meanwhile, some 87,000 Palestinian Arabs passed through the various crossings from Judea and Samaria to Jerusalem on Friday to take part in Ramadan prayers, the IDF said in a statement.

In addition, during the day, about 8,000 worshipers visited the Tomb of the Patriarchs in Hevron.

IDF forces are deployed in large numbers and are working in cooperation with the Israel Security Agency (Shin Bet), the Civil Administration, the Border Police and the Israel Police in order to allow the Ramadan prayers to go on while ensuring the defense of the local communities and roads and maintaining order and security.

(full article online)

Explosive hurled at IDF troops in Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



“Massacre”. 

Are you still pimping that nonsense?


----------



## Hollie

Major Islamic terrorist beat-down. 

And Allah is the best of planners.


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF opens fire at 4 who cross fence from southern Gaza into Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

Army says 1,600 Gazans hurl rocks, burn tires in weekly clashes; 87,000 West Bank Palestinians come to Jerusalem for Ramadan prayers

(full article online)

Bomb hurled at IDF troops on Gaza border as hundreds protest


----------



## Sixties Fan

he growing chasm between reality and reporting regarding the Palestinian-Israeli conflict was in stark relief during the recent events in Gaza. The prevailing narrative was that strong-armed Israelis were shooting and killing unarmed peaceful Palestinian protesters, when in fact there were a series of violent riots planned by Hamas as cover while they attempted to breach the security fence, pour into Israel, and kidnap or kill Israelis. The majority of those killed were terrorists or affiliated with Gaza-based terrorist movements, which is information provided by the terrorist groups themselves. 

Regardless of how one feels about Israel or the Palestinian quest for statehood, establishing what happened should have been a straightforward task given the abundance of verifiable evidence as the events unfolded. Unfortunately, this grotesque failure to report facts accurately or put them in context reached this point after several decades during which news outlets cemented the conflict narrative as a story focused on Israeli actions alone.

(full article online)

The Media’s Palestine Narrative Reads Like Fan Fiction


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ What would the US have done if anyone outside the US southern border attempted what these guys attempted at the border with Israel?]

Infiltration attempt during Gaza riots


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Wouldn't the USA government be shooting at all of these kind of terrorists who are sending incendiary kites and kite bombs into US territory?  ]

4 Gazans cross fence into Israel; 300 burning kites sent over border in a month


----------



## P F Tinmore

Why the protests.

*Sara Roy – Gaza: Cast Backwards, A Way Forward*

**


----------



## Hollie

Sara Roy. Islamic terrorist apologist can’t complete a coherent sentence. 

Hamas a “pragmatic” Islamic terrorist franchise.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel's Defense Ministry began work on a barrier along the Israeli coastline close to the Gaza border on Sunday, as part of continuing efforts to prevent terrorist infiltrations into Israel from the Hamas-ruled enclave.

The Defense Ministry ordered the construction of a coastal barrier on Israel's coastline near the Gaza Strip following the 2014 conflict with Hamas, code-named Operation Protective Edge. During the summer of 2014, a terrorist cell based in Gaza managed to infiltrate into Israel via the coast.

This new coastal barrier was made to withstand intense weather and sea conditions, and is expected to remain in place for years.

(full article online)

Israel to build 'beach barrier' to stop Hamas infiltrations


----------



## Sixties Fan

Linda Sarsours Lies are revealed in Gaza Conflict

(full article online)

THIS is how you shut down the lies about Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

(full article online)


Drone footage shows nature reserve devastated by Gaza flaming kites


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Another one of the endless "surprises" Hamas promised at the start of the "March of return".  Burn Israel and kill its people  ]

“A few days ago, during the night hours, a UAV was located, estimated to have crossed the border into Israel from the Northern Gaza Strip,” the IDF Spokesperson said in a statement. “The UAV landed in territory belonging to the Sha’ar Hanegev Regional Council. Explosives were discovered on the UAV,” he added.

(full article online)

Explosive Terror Drone Infiltrated Israel from Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Another one of the endless "surprises" Hamas promised at the start of the "March of return".  Burn Israel and kill its people  ]
> 
> “A few days ago, during the night hours, a UAV was located, estimated to have crossed the border into Israel from the Northern Gaza Strip,” the IDF Spokesperson said in a statement. “The UAV landed in territory belonging to the Sha’ar Hanegev Regional Council. Explosives were discovered on the UAV,” he added.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Explosive Terror Drone Infiltrated Israel from Gaza


Where was Iron Dome?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Another one of the endless "surprises" Hamas promised at the start of the "March of return".  Burn Israel and kill its people  ]
> 
> “A few days ago, during the night hours, a UAV was located, estimated to have crossed the border into Israel from the Northern Gaza Strip,” the IDF Spokesperson said in a statement. “The UAV landed in territory belonging to the Sha’ar Hanegev Regional Council. Explosives were discovered on the UAV,” he added.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Explosive Terror Drone Infiltrated Israel from Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> Where was Iron Dome?
Click to expand...


It seems all you people know is destruction and retrogression. You don't build and innovate, you just destroy what others have created. From the Buddhist statues in Afghanistan to the architecture and history across Syria and Iraq, (and the rest of world sibjected to Islamism), all you know is destruction.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Another one of the endless "surprises" Hamas promised at the start of the "March of return".  Burn Israel and kill its people  ]
> 
> “A few days ago, during the night hours, a UAV was located, estimated to have crossed the border into Israel from the Northern Gaza Strip,” the IDF Spokesperson said in a statement. “The UAV landed in territory belonging to the Sha’ar Hanegev Regional Council. Explosives were discovered on the UAV,” he added.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Explosive Terror Drone Infiltrated Israel from Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> Where was Iron Dome?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems all you people know is destruction and retrogression. You don't build and innovate, you just destroy what others have created. From the Buddhist statues in Afghanistan to the architecture and history across Syria and Iraq, (and the rest of world sibjected to Islamism), all you know is destruction.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Another one of the endless "surprises" Hamas promised at the start of the "March of return".  Burn Israel and kill its people  ]
> 
> “A few days ago, during the night hours, a UAV was located, estimated to have crossed the border into Israel from the Northern Gaza Strip,” the IDF Spokesperson said in a statement. “The UAV landed in territory belonging to the Sha’ar Hanegev Regional Council. Explosives were discovered on the UAV,” he added.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Explosive Terror Drone Infiltrated Israel from Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> Where was Iron Dome?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems all you people know is destruction and retrogression. You don't build and innovate, you just destroy what others have created. From the Buddhist statues in Afghanistan to the architecture and history across Syria and Iraq, (and the rest of world sibjected to Islamism), all you know is destruction.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Nice duck.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Unlike previous rounds of violence, Gazan terrorists have refrained from shooting rockets, instead using small arms fire directed at troops, planting bombs, flying incendiary kites, and sneaking across the border to cause minor damage.

Hours earlier, Israeli soldiers came under fire from Gaza on Monday, prompting the military to launch fresh strikes on Hamas targets in the Strip, the IDF said.

(full article online)

Machine gun fire from Gaza strikes southern Israel as border tensions leap


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Unlike previous rounds of violence, Gazan terrorists have refrained from shooting rockets, instead using small arms fire directed at troops, planting bombs, flying incendiary kites, and sneaking across the border to cause minor damage.
> 
> Hours earlier, Israeli soldiers came under fire from Gaza on Monday, prompting the military to launch fresh strikes on Hamas targets in the Strip, the IDF said.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Machine gun fire from Gaza strikes southern Israel as border tensions leap


Well good, at least it was not a terrorist attack.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,

WOW, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) are still probing and testing.  But Israel _[military, security, and police (MSP)]_ should be cautious.  One of the HoAP objectives is to trigger actions that can be media mold into  what the HoAP call "war crime."   Lethal engagements inside the Israeli border is pretty much fair game  But engagement at some distance within the Gaza Strip has to be very surgical and limited.



Sixties Fan said:


> Unlike previous rounds of violence, Gazan terrorists have refrained from shooting rockets, instead using small arms fire directed at troops, planting bombs, flying incendiary kites, and sneaking across the border to cause minor damage.
> 
> Hours earlier, Israeli soldiers came under fire from Gaza on Monday, prompting the military to launch fresh strikes on Hamas targets in the Strip, the IDF said.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Machine gun fire from Gaza strikes southern Israel as border tensions leap


*(COMMENT)*

I am hoping that the MSP is conducting very discreet _(but very extensive)_ audio and video suveillance, augmented with the state of the art High Definition IP Camera with high-speed Facial Recognition capacity to deal with the inevitable media allegations of violations of Customary and IHL are made.

There is be a separate, but equally capable, set of counterintelligence surveillance efforts _[to include Infiltration and Penetration (I&P) Operations]_ focused on disguised "Press" and "Human Rights Organizations"; identifying key organizers of violent activities.

But, the Israeli Commander and Field Supervisors of MSP and intelligence services must _(to the extent possible)_ prevent the HoAP from successfully instigating adverse media event. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Well good, at least it was not a terrorist attack.



Of course it was an islamist terrorist.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well good, at least it was not a terrorist attack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it was an islamist terrorist.
Click to expand...

Targeting foreign military is not terrorism.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well good, at least it was not a terrorist attack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it was an islamist terrorist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Targeting foreign military is not terrorism.
Click to expand...


Dead Islamic terrorists learn otherwise.


----------



## Indeependent

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well good, at least it was not a terrorist attack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it was an islamist terrorist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Targeting foreign military is not terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dead Islamic terrorists learn otherwise.
Click to expand...

You do realize that emotionally and mentally disturbed people believe what they're drooling.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Well, actually, there are no foreign troops in the Gaza Strip; with the possible exception of clandestine elements of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps - Quds Force (IRGC-QF).



P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well good, at least it was not a terrorist attack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it was an islamist terrorist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Targeting foreign military is not terrorism.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I doubt that you understand what terrorism measures.  But, that is neighter here nor there.  No nation in the world, that wishes to control its sovereign integrity is going to agree that they _(or any other)_ cannot defend its borders.   And again, you can argue the recognized borders encompassing the territorial integrity are not valid _(for whatever reason you choose)_, that is neither here nor there.  Such frivolous claims are not defendable. 

The Arab Palestinians deserve no recognition for their violence.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Indeependent said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well good, at least it was not a terrorist attack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it was an islamist terrorist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Targeting foreign military is not terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dead Islamic terrorists learn otherwise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You do realize that emotionally and mentally disturbed people believe what they're drooling.
Click to expand...


He wouldn’t consider the 67 War terrorism


----------



## rylah

For those disgusted by the media’s tremendous bias against Israel in its current battle with the terrorist group Hamas, here’s another piece of evidence showing how the media act as lapdogs for the terrorist group.

In an op-ed published by The New York Times on Wednesday, a former AP reporter admitted that in 2008, when Hamas went to war against Israel,* he complied with Hamas censorship and did not report that Hamas fighters were disguised as civilians and were being counted as civilians in the death toll. Worse, AP continued to use the death toll throughout the war, knowing that the figures were false.*

Former AP Reporter: AP Obeyed Hamas, Used False Stats About Palestinian Casualties In 2008


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Targeting foreign military is not terrorism.



But if you want to play that game -- its a war and Hamas members are combatants.  Which means that little "massacre" of "innocent civilians" was a military engagement between combatants with Hamas deliberately using human shields.  So, I expect you to start discussing it on that level.  Unless, of course, you wanna have different rules for Jews.

Personally, I more or less agree with you.  It IS a war and in war it is perfectly legitimate to target soldiers. But it works both ways.  And the government of Gaza has committed an terrible war crime by deliberately embedding combatants within a civilian population.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Sderot resident David Mansour, whose home was hit last night by bullets fired by Gaza terrorists, told _Arutz Sheva_ about the incident and his feelings.

"Last night there was a Red Alert; we were at home: my grandson, my wife, my daughter, and her husband. We were sitting in the security room. We waited and there was no incoming rocket. We went out and then suddenly bullets started flying here, near the car. I heard what happened. I came from the other side straight to here and saw the bullet lying in the road."

To the question of how one who has "gotten used to" Red Alerts feels when witnessing such an incident, he replies: "It's a bad feeling, when you see it - this thing could kill you. It's not a joke; you're looking straight at it - this is death.

(full article online)

'I saw death with my own eyes'


----------



## Sixties Fan

Late night barrage sends residents across Gaza border region running for cover; IDF says some 70 projectiles fired into Israel in most serious flare-up since 2014

(full article online )


Israel renews airstrikes on Gaza, denies reports of Egypt-brokered ceasefire


----------



## rylah

Photos from Gaza, released this evening:










*Update* - quick escalation, as sirens go off almost non-stop at night due to fire from Gaza at:

*22:08* - Nahal Oz and Alumim
*22:25 *- Lachish, Beer Ganim, Beit Hagdi, Netivot, Sdot Negev, Nir Yitzhak, Avshalom, Bnei Netzarim, Dekel, Yavul, Yated, Perry Gan, Shaddai Avraham, Shlomit, Talmei Yosef, Neve, Zohar, Yad Natan, Kochav Michael, Negba, Nehora, Noga, Nir Han, Otzem, Sadeh Yoav, Shachar, Brechia, Hodaya, Kfar Silver, Mishan, Nir Israel, Gvulot, Tze'elim, Brosh, Giv'ulim, Malilot,  Shibulim,Tidhar, Beit Shikma, Bat Hadar, Gia, Mavki'im, Talmei Yaffe,  Eshbol, Zru'a,, Nir Moshe, Nir Akiva, , Shavei Darom, Sde Zvi, Talmei Bilu, Dorot...





*23:33* - Yad Mordechai, Nativ HaAsarah
*23:41* - Kfar Aza, Saad
*23:56* - Yad Mordechai, Nativ Ha'asara, Or Haner, Erez, Zikim, Karmiya, Beit Shikma,  Bat Hadar, Gia,  Mavki'im, Talmei Yaffe






#BREAKING: Hamas sends new reinforcements and more fighters to the border to #Israel right now. 

*URGENT # Washington calls for an emergency session of the Security Council "after the launch of rockets from the # Gaza on Israel" - Official Al Jazeera Mubahser News account *


----------



## Lipush

*00:40*: Ohad, Mivtahim, Ami'oz

*1:13: *Re'im, Kisufim, Nirim, Ein Hashlosha, Be'eri


----------



## Hollie

Lipush said:


> *00:40*: Ohad, Mivtahim, Ami'oz
> 
> *1:13: *Re'im, Kisufim, Nirim, Ein Hashlosha, Be'eri



The Islamic terrorists in Gaza’istan might want to consider that a repeat of the beatdown they suffered in 2014 may be close.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Targeting foreign military is not terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But if you want to play that game -- its a war and Hamas members are combatants.  Which means that little "massacre" of "innocent civilians" was a military engagement between combatants with Hamas deliberately using human shields.  So, I expect you to start discussing it on that level.  Unless, of course, you wanna have different rules for Jews.
> 
> Personally, I more or less agree with you.  It IS a war and in war it is perfectly legitimate to target soldiers. But it works both ways.  And the government of Gaza has committed an terrible war crime by deliberately embedding combatants within a civilian population.
Click to expand...

Ahhh, the old human shield canard again.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> *00:40*: Ohad, Mivtahim, Ami'oz
> 
> *1:13: *Re'im, Kisufim, Nirim, Ein Hashlosha, Be'eri
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists in Gaza’istan might want to consider that a repeat of the beatdown they suffered in 2014 may be close.
Click to expand...

Israel getting ready to shoot itself in the foot again.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> *00:40*: Ohad, Mivtahim, Ami'oz
> 
> *1:13: *Re'im, Kisufim, Nirim, Ein Hashlosha, Be'eri
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists in Gaza’istan might want to consider that a repeat of the beatdown they suffered in 2014 may be close.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel getting ready to shoot itself in the foot again.
Click to expand...


Yeah, all those dead Islamics. 

You are a hoot.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> *00:40*: Ohad, Mivtahim, Ami'oz
> 
> *1:13: *Re'im, Kisufim, Nirim, Ein Hashlosha, Be'eri
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists in Gaza’istan might want to consider that a repeat of the beatdown they suffered in 2014 may be close.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel getting ready to shoot itself in the foot again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, all those dead Islamics.
> 
> You are a hoot.
Click to expand...

Israel just keeps getting lower and lower on the world stage.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> *00:40*: Ohad, Mivtahim, Ami'oz
> 
> *1:13: *Re'im, Kisufim, Nirim, Ein Hashlosha, Be'eri
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists in Gaza’istan might want to consider that a repeat of the beatdown they suffered in 2014 may be close.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel getting ready to shoot itself in the foot again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, all those dead Islamics.
> 
> You are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel just keeps getting lower and lower on the world stage.
Click to expand...

Pay attention on how the UN, the EU and many others are already reacting to the barrage of rockets on Israel from Gaza and then......

Let us see you repeat that.


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to the findings of examinations carried out by the ITIC, at least 112 Palestinians were killed during the “Great Return March.”[1] *In an examination of the names of the fatalities on an individual basis, 93 were identified as terrorist operatives or affiliated with the terrorist organizations, i.e., about 83% of those killed in the “return marches.”* Most of the fatalities (63) are from Hamas (about 56% of the total killed in all the marches). Fatah, which had 21 fatalities, played a minor role, with no significant impact on the events. The other organizations, including PIJ operatives (four fatalities) refrained from playing a significant role, maybe because of their awareness that this is a Hamas “project.” The organizational affiliation of 19 of the fatalities is unknown to the ITIC. It may be assumed that these are Hamas operatives or civilians who do not belong to any organization.

(full article online)

Findings of the ITIC’s examination of the identity of Palestinians killed in the events of the “Great Return March” (March 30, 2018 – May 15, 2018) - The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Targeting foreign military is not terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But if you want to play that game -- its a war and Hamas members are combatants.  Which means that little "massacre" of "innocent civilians" was a military engagement between combatants with Hamas deliberately using human shields.  So, I expect you to start discussing it on that level.  Unless, of course, you wanna have different rules for Jews.
> 
> Personally, I more or less agree with you.  It IS a war and in war it is perfectly legitimate to target soldiers. But it works both ways.  And the government of Gaza has committed an terrible war crime by deliberately embedding combatants within a civilian population.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahhh, the old human shield canard again.
Click to expand...


Ahhhh....the old double standards routine again.  All Israelis (Jews) are combatants.  All Arabs are innocents.  

Are you suggesting that it is NOT a war crime to embed and disguise combatants within a civilian population?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> *00:40*: Ohad, Mivtahim, Ami'oz
> 
> *1:13: *Re'im, Kisufim, Nirim, Ein Hashlosha, Be'eri
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists in Gaza’istan might want to consider that a repeat of the beatdown they suffered in 2014 may be close.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel getting ready to shoot itself in the foot again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, all those dead Islamics.
> 
> You are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel just keeps getting lower and lower on the world stage.
Click to expand...


Good,  we're here to lead and do a Tikkun, not to appease You. 
The less we can count on the nations, the less we'll try to appease You and Your fashions - and the more we'll rely on Hashem.

Hamas is merely a test of our belief, all those who tested our belief in Hashem eventually became dust of history, to be digged from the dirt and put on some stand in a museum.

Baruch Hashem Am Israel Chai!


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> *00:40*: Ohad, Mivtahim, Ami'oz
> 
> *1:13: *Re'im, Kisufim, Nirim, Ein Hashlosha, Be'eri
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists in Gaza’istan might want to consider that a repeat of the beatdown they suffered in 2014 may be close.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel getting ready to shoot itself in the foot again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, all those dead Islamics.
> 
> You are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel just keeps getting lower and lower on the world stage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good,  we're here to lead and do a Tikkun, not to appease You.
> The less we can count on the nations, the less we'll try to appease You and Your fashions - and the more we'll rely on Hashem.
> 
> Hamas is merely a test of our belief, all those who tested our belief in Hashem eventually became dust of history, to be digged from the dirt and put on some stand in a museum.
> 
> Baruch Hashem Am Israel Chai!
Click to expand...

How many times has Israel tried, and failed, to take out Hamas?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists in Gaza’istan might want to consider that a repeat of the beatdown they suffered in 2014 may be close.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel getting ready to shoot itself in the foot again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, all those dead Islamics.
> 
> You are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel just keeps getting lower and lower on the world stage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good,  we're here to lead and do a Tikkun, not to appease You.
> The less we can count on the nations, the less we'll try to appease You and Your fashions - and the more we'll rely on Hashem.
> 
> Hamas is merely a test of our belief, all those who tested our belief in Hashem eventually became dust of history, to be digged from the dirt and put on some stand in a museum.
> 
> Baruch Hashem Am Israel Chai!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times has Israel tried, and failed, to take out Hamas?
Click to expand...


Not once that I know of.

The only job Hamas has in this world is to demonstratively receive their historic justice, be humiliated,
*but most important motivate Jews to come closer to Hashem*.

They succeed in both- and there's no other way this can end:







Q. How many Arab countries has Hamas turned against them by selling-out Gaza to Iran?


----------



## Shazoomx4

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists in Gaza’istan might want to consider that a repeat of the beatdown they suffered in 2014 may be close.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel getting ready to shoot itself in the foot again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, all those dead Islamics.
> 
> You are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel just keeps getting lower and lower on the world stage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good,  we're here to lead and do a Tikkun, not to appease You.
> The less we can count on the nations, the less we'll try to appease You and Your fashions - and the more we'll rely on Hashem.
> 
> Hamas is merely a test of our belief, all those who tested our belief in Hashem eventually became dust of history, to be digged from the dirt and put on some stand in a museum.
> 
> Baruch Hashem Am Israel Chai!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times has Israel tried, and failed, to take out Hamas?
Click to expand...

0...
To take out Hamas Israel have to kill innocent people, And Israel doesn't want to do something like that if no need...
And actually, we can live in defense position against Hamas without taking all of them out


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

HAMAS is not truly an issue - as total destruction is NOT politically advantageous.



P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorists in Gaza’istan might want to consider that a repeat of the beatdown they suffered in 2014 may be close.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel getting ready to shoot itself in the foot again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, all those dead Islamics.
> 
> You are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel just keeps getting lower and lower on the world stage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good,  we're here to lead and do a Tikkun, not to appease You.
> The less we can count on the nations, the less we'll try to appease You and Your fashions - and the more we'll rely on Hashem.
> 
> Hamas is merely a test of our belief, all those who tested our belief in Hashem eventually became dust of history, to be digged from the dirt and put on some stand in a museum.
> 
> Baruch Hashem Am Israel Chai!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times has Israel tried, and failed, to take out Hamas?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

HAMAS does enjoy a MORE than a modicum of popular support.  The psyche of the Arab Palestinian has been stoking the image of a heroic figure _(martyr)_ as a larger than life rebel against wage war against authority _(A Masked Avenger Persona)_.  Thus, as long as HAMAS maintains a generational promotion of its heroic image, the seed of an insurgency will continue. 

*(I DON"T KNOW BUT IT WOULD APPEAR)*

The Intelligence, Security and Police authorities know this.  And in knowing this, the objective of any contact is → NOT to pursue the destruction of HAMAS, but to squeeze the capacity of a resistance dry, through the elimination of supply chain, the destruction of dedicated facilities and infrastructure, and the removal of materials necessary to continue a meaningful campaign. 

•  Interdict the Illicit flows of small arms and light weapons (SALW) used to undermine the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Israel and the rule of law. They are often a factor behind the forced displacement of civilians and massive human rights violations.  This would require Israel to address the threats posed by accessibility of SALW used by terrorists as well as to counter the supply and trafficking of weapons to terrorists _(HAMAS being a deignated terrorist group.)_ (•  See:  *S/RES/2220 (2015)* •)

•  Requires parties to the International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism to take steps to prevent and counteract the financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running.  (•  *See Convention* •)​
It is not a matter of "to take out Hamas" as you put it.  That is entirely the wrong question _(invalid if you will)_.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Here is a poster going around Palestinian media of students who were mowed down in the prime of their lives by evil Israelis so they couldn't attend final exams.





One Gazan translated this propaganda to English:





Every single one of these students were associated with terror groups.

Details of the first two can be seen in the most recent report by the Meir Amit Center. 

The student on the left is Bilal Badeir Hussein al-Ashram, who was a Fatah operative according to his Fatah branch in Gaza. 

Here's their martyr poster for him:

(full article online)

Every "martyr student" in Gaza who missed final exams was linked to a terror group ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Aron Keller’s recent article (May 16, 2018), “Gaza massacre should be a turning point for British Jews”, is a prime example of how ignorance, combined with baseless platitudes, unfortunately frame the thoughts of some of British Jewry.

In his article he claims that the 14 May “bloodbath” and “massacre” of Palestinians in the Gaza strip should bring “true friends of Israel” to “loudly and forcefully condemn” her instead of excusing her actions.

The fundamental mistake made by Keller, is to completely misunderstand and misrepresent the events in Gaza that started on March 30th.

Only when these events are presented, in their entirety, can any judgement be made regarding the events and their outcome. So let’s examine the facts.

The months preceding March 30th saw a rise in terrorist activity from the Gaza strip. Improvized explosive devices (IED’s) were planted by terrorists on and around the security fence that separates Gaza from Israel and Israeli forces were attacked. On February 17th, four IDF soldiers, operating in Israel, were injured.

(full article online)

The myth of the ‘Gaza massacre’


----------



## Sixties Fan

For reporters covering Gaza, charges of bias overshadow the stories they witness and tell - Jewish Telegraphic Agency


----------



## Sixties Fan

CAMERA Snapshots: Why Does a NY Times Journalist Want to Suppress an Anti-Hamas Article?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→ Sixties Fan, _et al,_

I am of the opinion that honesty and integrity in journalism is only academic.  Outside the acedemic the acemdemict realm, there is no such thing as honesty and integrity in applied journalism in the real-world.    



Sixties Fan said:


> CAMERA Snapshots: Why Does a NY Times Journalist Want to Suppress an Anti-Hamas Article?


*(COMMENT)*

For the Journalist, it is just a job; take the picture and and crank-out 300 words → @ ≈ 30 words per sentence.; or ten sound-bites.  Stories like the Arab Palestinian Conflict with Israel is NOT about the Who? What? When? Where? Why? and How? _(the basic interrogative)_.  It is NOT about the truth.  It is about sensationalism and infotainment that will sell. 

More often then not, a news item catches our attention because it is projects a feel-good aura about something that touches us.  

*•  jour·nal·ism  •*
     [ˈjərnlˌizəm]
*    NOUN*

the activity or profession of writing for newspapers, magazines, or news websites or preparing news to be broadcast.
synonyms: the newspaper business · the newspaper world · the press · the print media · the fourth estate · radio journalism · television journalism · Fleet Street · reporting · writing · reportage ·
[more]
the product of the activity of journalism.
"an art critic whose essays and journalism are never dull"

You will take notice:  It say:  "activity OR profession of writing"  Most of the time, it is just an activity.  For most of the journalist that troll the Arab Palestinian Beat, it is merely an "activity."  Like kids (including myself) I once played with, we found a dead body on the creek band.  We all had to rush-over and see it.  So it is like the Journalist in Gaza.  The Arab Palestinians parade around a dead child _(cause of death unknown)_ - the Journalist must run-over and take a picture of it.

Recently I read a story about an 8-month old baby that was exposed to Israeli tear gas and died.  Now for some of us, would ask, just how in the hell does an 8-month baby find itself on the border involved in a volatile protest?  Oddly enough, the story centered on the toxicity of the tear gas and implied that is was the Israeli's fault.  In just about every other place in the civilized world, the police would be investigating the parents for child abuse or child endangerment.  But journalism, being what it is, does not have a moral compass.

Just my thought.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Supreme National Council of the March of the Return processions is preparing to mark the anniversary of the Arab defeat in the Six Day War in early June of 1967.

The expected activity will take place on Tuesday, June 5, in the so-called "return camps" located along the Gaza border with Israel.

(full article online)

Gaza riots planned for next week


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  Sixties Fan,  _et al,_

Oh for heaven's sake.  Only the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) would celebrate a military defeat. 



Sixties Fan said:


> The Supreme National Council of the March of the Return processions is preparing to mark the anniversary of the Arab defeat in the Six Day War in early June of 1967.
> 
> The expected activity will take place on Tuesday, June 5, in the so-called "return camps" located along the Gaza border with Israel.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gaza riots planned for next week


*(COMMENT)*

The next thing you know, the HoAP will be celebrating 31 July the anniversary of the Disengagement from the West Bank, when HM King Hussein announced "the severance of all administrative and legal ties" (abandon) with the occupied West Bank. 

Only the HoAP would celebrate themselves as losers; as a people that fail frequently or is generally unsuccessful in life.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  Sixties Fan,  _et al,_
> 
> Oh for heaven's sake.  Only the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) would celebrate a military defeat.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Supreme National Council of the March of the Return processions is preparing to mark the anniversary of the Arab defeat in the Six Day War in early June of 1967.
> 
> The expected activity will take place on Tuesday, June 5, in the so-called "return camps" located along the Gaza border with Israel.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gaza riots planned for next week
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The next thing you know, the HoAP will be celebrating 31 July the anniversary of the Disengagement from the West Bank, when HM King Hussein announced "the severance of all administrative and legal ties" (abandon) with the occupied West Bank.
> 
> Only the HoAP would celebrate themselves as losers; as a people that fail frequently or is generally unsuccessful in life.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Well given that they are also the only ones who celebrate their dead at "weddings" instead of funerals, what do expect?


----------



## Andylusion

P F Tinmore said:


> Mainstream media only has a framework of violence to understand the Question of Palestine, which makes it ill-equipped to understand and explain one of the largest civil protests among Palestinians in recent history. That is why the media sounds like it is trying to shove a square into a circle as it fails to explicitly say Israel executed 18 Palestinians and injured 1400 others where no lethal threat was posed and while Palestinians were literally on their own lands in the buffer zone - 300-500 meters of agricultural lands Israel arbitrarily marked as a buffer zone- and not even at Israel's undeclared militarized border.
> 
> This is about Israel's settler anxiety and the inability to make Palestinians disappear- they have not forgotten, not assimilated into other countries, and struggle to return motivated by love and belonging. ~ Noura Erakat



I never know how to respond to posts like this, because there is such a clear disconnect between reality and this mythology.

Pages on pages of evidence, showing there is nothing civil, about this civil 'protest'.    We had a news reporter from NPR..... the conservative mecha of the media, interview a random 'protestor', and ask him why he wants to breach the security fence?  What did he intend to do if he got through? 

The "protestor" openly said he intended to kill whatever jews he could find.

That's a not a protestor.  That's a terrorist.

We had another reporter asking why they were putting swastikas on kites, with petrol bombs, and flying them over the fence.  The reporter was actually leading the question with "Don't you think that others could use that to discredit you?"

The "protestor" actually said, no that's what we want.  We want to burn them.

These are not protestors.  These are terrorists.   The media has been beside itself trying to support these people.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Andylusion said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mainstream media only has a framework of violence to understand the Question of Palestine, which makes it ill-equipped to understand and explain one of the largest civil protests among Palestinians in recent history. That is why the media sounds like it is trying to shove a square into a circle as it fails to explicitly say Israel executed 18 Palestinians and injured 1400 others where no lethal threat was posed and while Palestinians were literally on their own lands in the buffer zone - 300-500 meters of agricultural lands Israel arbitrarily marked as a buffer zone- and not even at Israel's undeclared militarized border.
> 
> This is about Israel's settler anxiety and the inability to make Palestinians disappear- they have not forgotten, not assimilated into other countries, and struggle to return motivated by love and belonging. ~ Noura Erakat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never know how to respond to posts like this, because there is such a clear disconnect between reality and this mythology.
> 
> Pages on pages of evidence, showing there is nothing civil, about this civil 'protest'.    We had a news reporter from NPR..... the conservative mecha of the media, interview a random 'protestor', and ask him why he wants to breach the security fence?  What did he intend to do if he got through?
> 
> The "protestor" openly said he intended to kill whatever jews he could find.
> 
> That's a not a protestor.  That's a terrorist.
> 
> We had another reporter asking why they were putting swastikas on kites, with petrol bombs, and flying them over the fence.  The reporter was actually leading the question with "Don't you think that others could use that to discredit you?"
> 
> The "protestor" actually said, no that's what we want.  We want to burn them.
> 
> These are not protestors.  These are terrorists.   The media has been beside itself trying to support these people.
Click to expand...

So, why are they protesting?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Let's try this again.



P F Tinmore said:


> EXCERPT:  Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are not protestors.  These are terrorists.   The media has been beside itself trying to support these people.
> 
> 
> 
> So, why are they protesting?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The actions of the Arab Palestinians _(the terrorists)_ are attempting to incite violence along the Israeli-Gaza Strip Boundary are there to: 

•  Seriously intimidating a population, or

•  Unduly compelling a Government or international organisation to perform or abstain from performing any act, or

•  Seriously destabilising or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of Israel.​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Let's try this again.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT:  Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are not protestors.  These are terrorists.   The media has been beside itself trying to support these people.
> 
> 
> 
> So, why are they protesting?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The actions of the Arab Palestinians _(the terrorists)_ are attempting to incite violence along the Israeli-Gaza Strip Boundary are there to:
> 
> •  Seriously intimidating a population, or
> 
> •  Unduly compelling a Government or international organisation to perform or abstain from performing any act, or
> 
> •  Seriously destabilising or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of Israel.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Ahhh, the old terrorist canard again.

Nice duck though.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> So, why are they protesting?



Because Israel exists and Jewish hearts are still in their chests.


----------



## Andylusion

P F Tinmore said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mainstream media only has a framework of violence to understand the Question of Palestine, which makes it ill-equipped to understand and explain one of the largest civil protests among Palestinians in recent history. That is why the media sounds like it is trying to shove a square into a circle as it fails to explicitly say Israel executed 18 Palestinians and injured 1400 others where no lethal threat was posed and while Palestinians were literally on their own lands in the buffer zone - 300-500 meters of agricultural lands Israel arbitrarily marked as a buffer zone- and not even at Israel's undeclared militarized border.
> 
> This is about Israel's settler anxiety and the inability to make Palestinians disappear- they have not forgotten, not assimilated into other countries, and struggle to return motivated by love and belonging. ~ Noura Erakat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never know how to respond to posts like this, because there is such a clear disconnect between reality and this mythology.
> 
> Pages on pages of evidence, showing there is nothing civil, about this civil 'protest'.    We had a news reporter from NPR..... the conservative mecha of the media, interview a random 'protestor', and ask him why he wants to breach the security fence?  What did he intend to do if he got through?
> 
> The "protestor" openly said he intended to kill whatever jews he could find.
> 
> That's a not a protestor.  That's a terrorist.
> 
> We had another reporter asking why they were putting swastikas on kites, with petrol bombs, and flying them over the fence.  The reporter was actually leading the question with "Don't you think that others could use that to discredit you?"
> 
> The "protestor" actually said, no that's what we want.  We want to burn them.
> 
> These are not protestors.  These are terrorists.   The media has been beside itself trying to support these people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, why are they protesting?
Click to expand...


Again... it's not 'protesting' when you openly state your purpose to go and kill people.  That's not a protest.

That's terrorism.

As for why they are engaging in terrorism, I don't care.  There is no excuse for terrorism.   Whatever reason you can come up with to threaten me or my family, isn't going to matter to me.   Terrorists should die, and that's all.  And no one should even care enough to discuss why.   I wouldn't be asking you why you want to kill me or my family, I would just want you dead.

Similarly, I don't care why a bunch of murderous terrorists are trying to kill people over there.   They are murderous terrorists.  They should be shot.  End of story.


----------



## fanger

Andylusion said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mainstream media only has a framework of violence to understand the Question of Palestine, which makes it ill-equipped to understand and explain one of the largest civil protests among Palestinians in recent history. That is why the media sounds like it is trying to shove a square into a circle as it fails to explicitly say Israel executed 18 Palestinians and injured 1400 others where no lethal threat was posed and while Palestinians were literally on their own lands in the buffer zone - 300-500 meters of agricultural lands Israel arbitrarily marked as a buffer zone- and not even at Israel's undeclared militarized border.
> 
> This is about Israel's settler anxiety and the inability to make Palestinians disappear- they have not forgotten, not assimilated into other countries, and struggle to return motivated by love and belonging. ~ Noura Erakat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never know how to respond to posts like this, because there is such a clear disconnect between reality and this mythology.
> 
> Pages on pages of evidence, showing there is nothing civil, about this civil 'protest'.    We had a news reporter from NPR..... the conservative mecha of the media, interview a random 'protestor', and ask him why he wants to breach the security fence?  What did he intend to do if he got through?
> 
> The "protestor" openly said he intended to kill whatever jews he could find.
> 
> That's a not a protestor.  That's a terrorist.
> 
> We had another reporter asking why they were putting swastikas on kites, with petrol bombs, and flying them over the fence.  The reporter was actually leading the question with "Don't you think that others could use that to discredit you?"
> 
> The "protestor" actually said, no that's what we want.  We want to burn them.
> 
> These are not protestors.  These are terrorists.   The media has been beside itself trying to support these people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, why are they protesting?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again... it's not 'protesting' when you openly state your purpose to go and kill people.  That's not a protest.
> 
> That's terrorism.
> 
> As for why they are engaging in terrorism, I don't care.  There is no excuse for terrorism.   Whatever reason you can come up with to threaten me or my family, isn't going to matter to me.   Terrorists should die, and that's all.  And no one should even care enough to discuss why.   I wouldn't be asking you why you want to kill me or my family, I would just want you dead.
> 
> Similarly, I don't care why a bunch of murderous terrorists are trying to kill people over there.   They are murderous terrorists.  They should be shot.  End of story.
Click to expand...

You have a double standard? 
 "The policy of the new organization was based squarely on Jabotinsky's teachings: every Jew had the right to enter Palestine; only active retaliation would deter the Arabs; only Jewish armed force would ensure the Jewish state".[2]

Two of the operations for which the Irgun is best known are the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem on 22 July 1946 and the Deir Yassin massacre, carried out together with Lehi on 9 April 1948.

The Irgun has been viewed as a terrorist organization or organization which carried out terrorist acts
Irgun - Wikipedia


----------



## P F Tinmore

Andylusion said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mainstream media only has a framework of violence to understand the Question of Palestine, which makes it ill-equipped to understand and explain one of the largest civil protests among Palestinians in recent history. That is why the media sounds like it is trying to shove a square into a circle as it fails to explicitly say Israel executed 18 Palestinians and injured 1400 others where no lethal threat was posed and while Palestinians were literally on their own lands in the buffer zone - 300-500 meters of agricultural lands Israel arbitrarily marked as a buffer zone- and not even at Israel's undeclared militarized border.
> 
> This is about Israel's settler anxiety and the inability to make Palestinians disappear- they have not forgotten, not assimilated into other countries, and struggle to return motivated by love and belonging. ~ Noura Erakat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never know how to respond to posts like this, because there is such a clear disconnect between reality and this mythology.
> 
> Pages on pages of evidence, showing there is nothing civil, about this civil 'protest'.    We had a news reporter from NPR..... the conservative mecha of the media, interview a random 'protestor', and ask him why he wants to breach the security fence?  What did he intend to do if he got through?
> 
> The "protestor" openly said he intended to kill whatever jews he could find.
> 
> That's a not a protestor.  That's a terrorist.
> 
> We had another reporter asking why they were putting swastikas on kites, with petrol bombs, and flying them over the fence.  The reporter was actually leading the question with "Don't you think that others could use that to discredit you?"
> 
> The "protestor" actually said, no that's what we want.  We want to burn them.
> 
> These are not protestors.  These are terrorists.   The media has been beside itself trying to support these people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, why are they protesting?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again... it's not 'protesting' when you openly state your purpose to go and kill people.  That's not a protest.
> 
> That's terrorism.
> 
> As for why they are engaging in terrorism, I don't care.  There is no excuse for terrorism.   Whatever reason you can come up with to threaten me or my family, isn't going to matter to me.   Terrorists should die, and that's all.  And no one should even care enough to discuss why.   I wouldn't be asking you why you want to kill me or my family, I would just want you dead.
> 
> Similarly, I don't care why a bunch of murderous terrorists are trying to kill people over there.   They are murderous terrorists.  They should be shot.  End of story.
Click to expand...

WOW, nice rant!


----------



## P F Tinmore

* What's behind the protests in the Gaza Strip? *

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> * What's behind the protests in the Gaza Strip? *
> 
> **




The irony is that they say they either get it all or they are wish to die. They are going to get their wish.


----------



## Shusha

Now before Coyote gets after me, what I mean by that is not that Israel should wipe them out. I mean they frame it as a zero sum game and they would literally rather die than just get along with Israel. It's insane.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> * What's behind the protests in the Gaza Strip? *



Rather simple. It’s all spelled out in explicit detail in your Korans.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> Now before Coyote gets after me, what I mean by that is not that Israel should wipe them out. I mean they frame it as a zero sum game and they would literally rather die than just get along with Israel. It's insane.


They never had to die under the Crusaders or the Ottoman Empire.
This is all a new way to attempt to defeat the Jews, and only the Jewish sovereignty over Jewish land.

The leaders came up with this whole virgins idea, of dying for them.
They misrepresent the whole idea of the virgins.
Ignorant Arab Muslims cannot get the idea that suicide is really against their religion and will continue to be lead by those leaders.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * What's behind the protests in the Gaza Strip? *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rather simple. It’s all spelled out in explicit detail in your Korans.
Click to expand...

More proof that we need a stupid post button.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * What's behind the protests in the Gaza Strip? *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rather simple. It’s all spelled out in explicit detail in your Korans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More proof that we need a stupid post button.
Click to expand...


It’s funny to watch you get befuddled and retreat to your usual cut and paste slogans. 

The facts are, however, that your Korans are drenched in kuffar hating diatribes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * What's behind the protests in the Gaza Strip? *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rather simple. It’s all spelled out in explicit detail in your Korans.
Click to expand...

I have never even soon a Koran. WTF are you babbling about?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * What's behind the protests in the Gaza Strip? *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rather simple. It’s all spelled out in explicit detail in your Korans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have never even soon a Koran. WTF are you babbling about?
Click to expand...


Tinmore will be performing here all week folks. Be sure to tip the waitresses.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Antisemitism = Antizionism


----------



## Sixties Fan

The dead teen’s father says in the clip that his son had always talked about his desire to become a Shaheed, a Muslim religious warrior who dies fighting the “infidel,” and he even prayed to Allah to grant him his wish.

Hamas’ cynical objective in this event was to brainwash other Palestinian youth to become the next Saadi Abu Salah, an Israeli think tank explained.

“Hamas’ objective was to glorify Saadi Abu Salah and turn him into a role model for other boys Hamas uses for its own purposes,” the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center (ITIC), which investigated the phenomenon, wrote.

The objective of the memorial was to show Saadi’s “courage, glorify him and turn him into a role model,” ITIC explained.

As’ad Abu Salah (Abu Fahmi), Saadi’s uncle, was imprisoned in Israel and released as part of the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange deal in 2011. Two of his sons are currently imprisoned in Israel.

In another report, ITIC points out that the incorporation of youth into the Hamas terror apparatus makes the distinction between civilians and combatants during warfare exceedingly difficult and could result in a rise in civilian casualties in a conflict.

The practice of pushing youth into the service of terror is reminiscent of Hamas’ use of human shields during warfare, which constitutes a war crime.

(full article online)

How Hamas Sends Boys to Their Deaths – The Case of Saadi Abu Salah, 16


----------



## Sixties Fan

As we see Tom Bateman chose to ignore the fact that over 80% of the people he is happy to quote ‘Palestinians’ describing as “unarmed civilians” have been shown to have links to various terror factions. His faux impartiality concealed the fact that Hamas publicly acknowledged that five of those killed on March 30th were members of its Qassam Brigades, that it claimed 50 of those killedon May 14th and that the PIJ has also claimed several of those killed since the ‘Great Return March’ publicity stunt began.

In addition, while happy to uncritically parrot claims of “peaceful protests”, Bateman placed documented violent incidents such as shooting attacks, IED attacks and border infiltrations in the category of things “Israelis say” happened. He similarly described documented calls by Hamas leaders to infiltrate Israeli territory and attack Israeli citizens as merely things that ‘Israel says’.

Bateman then returned to the May 27th IED incident, telling BBC World Service audiences that it was Israel’s response to that – rather than a terror organisation’s act of planting an explosive device on a border fence – that caused the latest escalation.

(full article online)

BBC News continues to sideline Hamas’ ’50 were ours’ announcement


----------



## Andylusion

fanger said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mainstream media only has a framework of violence to understand the Question of Palestine, which makes it ill-equipped to understand and explain one of the largest civil protests among Palestinians in recent history. That is why the media sounds like it is trying to shove a square into a circle as it fails to explicitly say Israel executed 18 Palestinians and injured 1400 others where no lethal threat was posed and while Palestinians were literally on their own lands in the buffer zone - 300-500 meters of agricultural lands Israel arbitrarily marked as a buffer zone- and not even at Israel's undeclared militarized border.
> 
> This is about Israel's settler anxiety and the inability to make Palestinians disappear- they have not forgotten, not assimilated into other countries, and struggle to return motivated by love and belonging. ~ Noura Erakat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never know how to respond to posts like this, because there is such a clear disconnect between reality and this mythology.
> 
> Pages on pages of evidence, showing there is nothing civil, about this civil 'protest'.    We had a news reporter from NPR..... the conservative mecha of the media, interview a random 'protestor', and ask him why he wants to breach the security fence?  What did he intend to do if he got through?
> 
> The "protestor" openly said he intended to kill whatever jews he could find.
> 
> That's a not a protestor.  That's a terrorist.
> 
> We had another reporter asking why they were putting swastikas on kites, with petrol bombs, and flying them over the fence.  The reporter was actually leading the question with "Don't you think that others could use that to discredit you?"
> 
> The "protestor" actually said, no that's what we want.  We want to burn them.
> 
> These are not protestors.  These are terrorists.   The media has been beside itself trying to support these people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, why are they protesting?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again... it's not 'protesting' when you openly state your purpose to go and kill people.  That's not a protest.
> 
> That's terrorism.
> 
> As for why they are engaging in terrorism, I don't care.  There is no excuse for terrorism.   Whatever reason you can come up with to threaten me or my family, isn't going to matter to me.   Terrorists should die, and that's all.  And no one should even care enough to discuss why.   I wouldn't be asking you why you want to kill me or my family, I would just want you dead.
> 
> Similarly, I don't care why a bunch of murderous terrorists are trying to kill people over there.   They are murderous terrorists.  They should be shot.  End of story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have a double standard?
> "The policy of the new organization was based squarely on Jabotinsky's teachings: every Jew had the right to enter Palestine; only active retaliation would deter the Arabs; only Jewish armed force would ensure the Jewish state".[2]
> 
> Two of the operations for which the Irgun is best known are the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem on 22 July 1946 and the Deir Yassin massacre, carried out together with Lehi on 9 April 1948.
> 
> The Irgun has been viewed as a terrorist organization or organization which carried out terrorist acts
> Irgun - Wikipedia
Click to expand...


Right............

You know, Mexico attacked Americans a long time ago.  Do I hold it against them?  No.  Do they try and invade the US to take back the area for Mexico?  No.

Do I have a problem with Mexicans?   No.    I have a problem with illegal immigration, but I am not opposed to immigration legally at all, and I have Mexican friends, and I have even considered dating a Mexican to be my wife.

Why is that? 

BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT TRYING TO KILL US *TODAY*.

In regards to Israel and the sub-humans attacking them..... Yeah some groups that were in fact terrorists back in the 1940s.   If you were to catch a murderer that was engaged in that, I would have problem putting them on trial, and having them hung.

What does that, have to do with these trashy terrorist today?

Does one wrong, make another wrong, right?

Does one terrorist 50 years ago, make a terrorist today ok?

No, I don't have a double standard at all.  I am completely consistent.

If anyone has a double standard, it would be you.   If you are suggesting that what these dogs are doing over there, is good, because they are fighting for the land, then you also have to admit that the Jews were doing the same thing, and that is good too.   You can't condemn jews for doing exactly what your side is doing right now.

If it was wrong for the Jews, then it's wrong for you right now.

If it was right for you to do today, then it was right for the Jews to do it back then.

Either way, you destroy your own position.


----------



## Andylusion

P F Tinmore said:


> * What's behind the protests in the Gaza Strip? *
> 
> **





P F Tinmore said:


> * What's behind the protests in the Gaza Strip? *
> 
> **



The irony is that you keep proving me right.    I told you, maybe a two or three years ago, that the Arab people in Israel have two options.  They can stay and die, or leave and live.

They can either stay and keep fighting Israel, and die.
Or they leave Israel and live.

What have we seen?   They stay, they fight, and they die.

You want to keep doing that, than you can keep getting that result.

Since I said that, we had hundreds of Pal-deaths, and thousands on thousands of injured.   I think at most 50 Israelis have died?

And now we have this, where 60+ have been killed, trying to fight Israel.

Why?  For what?   They have died for nothing.  Just nothing.  You have not taken back a single square inch of land, and you never will.   You have not pushed Israel off one pinky toe of land, and you never will.

You have sacrificed so many lives, and have nothing to show for it.   This is the reality.

But, you want to keep sending people to die... that's your choice.  Israel is not going anywhere.   They will either go somewhere, or they will die where they are, but Israel is not going anywhere.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Andylusion said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * What's behind the protests in the Gaza Strip? *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * What's behind the protests in the Gaza Strip? *
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The irony is that you keep proving me right.    I told you, maybe a two or three years ago, that the Arab people in Israel have two options.  They can stay and die, or leave and live.
> 
> They can either stay and keep fighting Israel, and die.
> Or they leave Israel and live.
> 
> What have we seen?   They stay, they fight, and they die.
> 
> You want to keep doing that, than you can keep getting that result.
> 
> Since I said that, we had hundreds of Pal-deaths, and thousands on thousands of injured.   I think at most 50 Israelis have died?
> 
> And now we have this, where 60+ have been killed, trying to fight Israel.
> 
> Why?  For what?   They have died for nothing.  Just nothing.  You have not taken back a single square inch of land, and you never will.   You have not pushed Israel off one pinky toe of land, and you never will.
> 
> You have sacrificed so many lives, and have nothing to show for it.   This is the reality.
> 
> But, you want to keep sending people to die... that's your choice.  Israel is not going anywhere.   They will either go somewhere, or they will die where they are, but Israel is not going anywhere.
Click to expand...


Tinmore is willing to fight to the last standing Palestinian, from his armchair that is.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ And the show continues....Read my thread on the Fahrud, to understand why it goes on, and on, and on, and on........ ]


IDF vehicle fired at during Gaza clashes, grenade planted on border

Army says thousands of Gazans take part in clashes, burn tires and throw rocks at soldiers; volunteer Palestinian medic said killed

IDF vehicle fired at during Gaza clashes, grenade planted on border


----------



## Sixties Fan

The IDF spokesman tweeted a statement that bags found inside a terror tunnel from Gaza destroyed on May 29 were labeled ‘UNRWA’, the acronym for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency. The sacks were used to reinforce the tunnel’s infrastructure.

(vide tweet online)

IDF: Some Hamas Rockets Made in Iran; UNRWA Sacks Used in Terror Tunnels


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas was proud to take responsibility this week for unleashing a barrage of 199 rockets and mortars directed at southern Israel; on houses, towns, villages, kindergartens and schools. For such is the nature of this dangerous Islamist movement which has controlled Gaza for 11 years and for whom the only aim is the publicly-avowed destruction of the Jewish state.

*Hamas has dedicated almost the entirety of its resources to that single aim. The public relations campaign disseminated by its apologists brazenly blames the poverty of ordinary Gazans on Israel.*

*Indeed, Gazans are living in poverty but the reality should and could have been wildly different.*

*According to every serious international estimate, two-thirds of the income of Hamas ends up in the pocket of its military wing. *

Money that could and should have been used for building hospitals, roads, housing, electricity supply and basic needs is instead funneled into the manufacture of rockets and missiles and especially into the building of a network of terror tunnels whose only aim is the facilitation of entry of Hamas operatives into Israel for the purpose of kidnapping and murdering innocent Israelis. In the past few years alone, Israel has uncovered over 35 of these attack tunnels and it is presumed that a significant number remain undetected. Palestinian estimates emphasize that each tunnel costs just over 7.8 million Australian dollars.

On this basis, Hamas has squandered at least 300 million dollars for the sole objective of attacking Israelis, rather than for improving the lives of the civilians it controls. Undoubtedly there is poverty in Gaza, undoubtedly the ordinary Gazan deserves a better life, yet undoubtedly too the prioritization of the killing of Israelis over the welfare of its own people is what this extremist organization is all about.

(full article online)

Israel Issues Watchdog: The truth behind Hamas and the Gaza protests


----------



## Sixties Fan

"Peaceful" Gaza Rioters Throw Grenades into Israel. Alleged Female Medic Killed by IDF Fire


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ceasefire, Shmissfire: Iron Dome Intercepts Gaza Rocket Saturday Night


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel strikes 10 terror targets across Gaza after rocket attack


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Time to sue Hamas and the PA, or simply take over Gaza?  How they "love" Palestine.  ]

In worst blaze to date, Gaza fire kites destroy vast parts of nature reserve


----------



## Sixties Fan

Members of Hamas' security forces attacked a mourners' tent erected by the family of Razan al-Najjar in Khan Yunis in southern Gaza, the Palestinian Authority's (PA) _Wafa_ news agency reported.

According to eyewitnesses, Hamas terrorists violently attacked those visiting the tent, removed Fatah announcements, and gave one of the victims a head injury, _Wafa_ reported.

(full article online)

Hamas terrorists attack mourners' tent


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arab Propaganda Pushing Dead Female Medic Story with IDF Cooperation


----------



## rylah

*Brave Muslim Leader Exposes The Truth About Gaza*


----------



## rylah

*Hamas Leader in Gaza Yahya Sinwar: We Are Coordinating with Hizbullah, Iran on an Almost Daily Basis*


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  How Arabs just "LOVE" their land, and all the little creatures in it ]




Fire, smoke and devastation at the Carmia nature reserve, June 2, 2018 (Ynet screenshot)

Full article online)

In worst blaze to date, Gaza fire kites destroy vast parts of nature reserve


----------



## Sixties Fan

Sirens blare in southern Israel throughout night, sending thousands to bomb shelters; three projectiles intercepted, one rocket said to land in open area

(full article online)

IDF conducts second round of Gaza airstrikes after overnight fire


----------



## Sixties Fan

A former IDF soldier who hasn’t served for years is now receiving hundreds of death threats from Hamas terror supporters after an old photo of her in uniform was posted by Hamas, falsely claiming she shot and killed a pro-terrorist female Gazan nurse during border violence on Friday. Thanks to the StandWithUs organization, the “real” Rebecca made a public statement to clarify the situation.

The truth? Rebecca isn’t even in the army. _She hasn’t served for years_.

After getting caught with their lies and fake news “Freedom for Gaza” makes it very clear they don’t care that they were caught lying and spreading fake news. At this point, Facebook has not shut down their account either.

(full article online)

Gazans Caught Lying, Post Pics of Civilian, Claim She Shot Terror-Supporting Nurse


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  Sixties Fan,  et al,

Yes, and there are probably an entire series of events, blamed on the Israelis, that either never happened _(fake incidents)_ or perpetrated by HAMAS itself.



Sixties Fan said:


> After getting caught with their lies and fake news “Freedom for Gaza” makes it very clear they don’t care that they were caught lying and spreading fake news. At this point, Facebook has not shut down their account either.


*(COMMENT)*

The "March of Return" is really circus event designed to appeal to the emotion.  Even if the emotion is based on false input, the feeling you get from the emotion lingers on.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians place the incitment of violence above the truth in the justification.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Suggestion for Israel on how to deal with this and put an end to it ]

Instead of kites, Gazan arsonists are now launching helium-filled balloons carrying burning charcoal capable of flying several kilometers into Israel

(full article online)

Gaza’s airborne firebombs are getting smarter, and reaching farther


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Gaza: The “simple” solution*

To formulate an effective policy regarding Gaza, we need to understand the pathology of what we are attempting to address. The source of the conflict is the physical presence of a large, implacably hostile Arab population on Israel’s southern border. Simple logic therefore dictates that to remove the source of conflict, that hostile population must be removed. 

Israel will not be able to indefinitely endure recurring bouts of fighting—whenever the enemy on the other side feels sufficiently bold to launch an attack or sufficiently desperate not to be able to refrain from one.

Accordingly, the solution for Gaza is not, and cannot be, its reconstruction, but its deconstruction and the generously funded humanitarian relocation and rehabilitation of the non-belligerent Gazans to third party countries, outside the “circle of violence”.

To achieve this, the IDF cannot content itself with periodic punitive sorties, followed by a limited interbellum, in which the enemy regroups, rearms and redeploys, ready for the next round.* It must conquer the entire Gaza Strip, apprehend (otherwise dispose of) the current Gazan leadership, dismantle the current mechanism of governance and begin a vigorous program of incentivized emigration of the non-belligerent population.*

This is the “simple” solution for Gaza—and the only durable one. Of course, to say that it is “simple” does not imply that it is “easy”. Indeed, the great difficulty it entails is rooted in its brutal simplicity of “Them or Us”.

Clearly, the fact that it is relatively easy to propose such a harsh policy prescription in the air-conditioned comfort of my study does not make it any less imperative or less inevitable.

After all, denying or delaying the inevitable does not make it any less inevitable, only more costly when it inevitably comes about.

(full article online)

INTO THE FRAY: Gaza - A “simple” solution


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> *Gaza: The “simple” solution*
> 
> To formulate an effective policy regarding Gaza, we need to understand the pathology of what we are attempting to address. The source of the conflict is the physical presence of a large, implacably hostile Arab population on Israel’s southern border. Simple logic therefore dictates that to remove the source of conflict, that hostile population must be removed.
> 
> Israel will not be able to indefinitely endure recurring bouts of fighting—whenever the enemy on the other side feels sufficiently bold to launch an attack or sufficiently desperate not to be able to refrain from one.
> 
> Accordingly, the solution for Gaza is not, and cannot be, its reconstruction, but its deconstruction and the generously funded humanitarian relocation and rehabilitation of the non-belligerent Gazans to third party countries, outside the “circle of violence”.
> 
> To achieve this, the IDF cannot content itself with periodic punitive sorties, followed by a limited interbellum, in which the enemy regroups, rearms and redeploys, ready for the next round.* It must conquer the entire Gaza Strip, apprehend (otherwise dispose of) the current Gazan leadership, dismantle the current mechanism of governance and begin a vigorous program of incentivized emigration of the non-belligerent population.*
> 
> This is the “simple” solution for Gaza—and the only durable one. Of course, to say that it is “simple” does not imply that it is “easy”. Indeed, the great difficulty it entails is rooted in its brutal simplicity of “Them or Us”.
> 
> Clearly, the fact that it is relatively easy to propose such a harsh policy prescription in the air-conditioned comfort of my study does not make it any less imperative or less inevitable.
> 
> After all, denying or delaying the inevitable does not make it any less inevitable, only more costly when it inevitably comes about.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> INTO THE FRAY: Gaza - A “simple” solution


So killing, destroying, and ethnic cleansing is your solution.

You must be Israeli.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  rylah, et al,

Yes, we've known for quite some time that the Arab Palestinians in Gaza, more so than the West Bank _(but not totally excluding IRGC-QF activity in the West Bank)_, that HAMAS has been taking military financial aid, weapons, and other material support from the Islamic Republic of Iran.



rylah said:


> Hamas Leader in Gaza Yahya Sinwar: We Are Coordinating with Hizbullah, Iran on an Almost Daily Basis


*(COMMENT)*

I am wondering what the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) is going to say about the Arab Palestinians openly establishing a link allowing for the Iranians to implant an influence with covert military and intelligence resources in on the Mediterranean side of the GCC.  I wonder if governments like Jordan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Egypt have any concerns about the emergence of the Quds Force activity either in border line proximity → or → on both sides of them.

I don't know.  Maybe the GCC and the greater Arab League don't care one way or the other  →  that the Hostile Arab Palestinians are now politically secure enough to openly flaunt it in the face. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  rylah, et al,
> 
> Yes, we've known for quite some time that the Arab Palestinians in Gaza, more so than the West Bank _(but not totally excluding IRGC-QF activity in the West Bank)_, that HAMAS has been taking military financial aid, weapons, and other material support from the Islamic Republic of Iran.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas Leader in Gaza Yahya Sinwar: We Are Coordinating with Hizbullah, Iran on an Almost Daily Basis
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I am wondering what the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) is going to say about the Arab Palestinians openly establishing a link allowing for the Iranians to implant an influence with covert military and intelligence resources in on the Mediterranean side of the GCC.  I wonder if governments like Jordan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Egypt have any concerns about the emergence of the Quds Force activity either in border line proximity → or → on both sides of them.
> 
> I don't know.  Maybe the GCC and the greater Arab League don't care one way or the other  →  that the Hostile Arab Palestinians are now politically secure enough to openly flaunt it in the face.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


To me it seems that the Gulf states are quiet openly moving towards normalization.
One cannot underestimate the scope of publicity and the meaning of their last comments regarding Palestinian Arab perpetuation of the conflict and posturing.

For all those countries You've mentioned both the PLO and Hamas have become a nuisance, both economically, publicly and financially. Those states are looking forward, while Palestinian fractions attempt to steer the Arab public backwards, to support another mindless war - it's just a broken record from the 60's nobody really buys anymore.

As for selling Sunni Gaza to Shia Iran, and thus practically surrounding the whole of middle east, it's a tactical mistake, one that will cost them their relations with the Arab world in the future, if they remain a part of it. and it's becoming even more grotesque with the PA, that fills the pockets from both hands while keeping a posture that the whole Arab world owes them something.
But in the meantime the Sunnis are still giving them time and options to come back to senses.

That's MY perspective.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the meantime:

there's a video surfacing of a Gazan crossing into Israel to place a grenade by the fence and run away as it explodes.
What caught my eye is the IRANIAN FLAG being displayed in the open from the Gazan side:

THE VIDEO - this is a symbolic display that everyone in the neighborhood has noted, is enough to turn Hamas into the enemy, and that's a tough choice for the neighbors, although they are unlikely to be more accommodating  when they decide enough is enough- Egypt still has the plan to install it's police in Gaza and be done with that nonsense, they have already been jamming Gaza communications for weeks to find ISIS, I don't think that adding Iran to the list is going to make life easier for the Gazans.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## Slyhunter

Gazans should be eradicated because they can't be made peace with. Israel has no choice. The rockets, burning kites, etc. are going to continue until they are all dead.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
Click to expand...

Israeli BS of course. This is not a Hamas gig.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli BS of course. This is not a Hamas gig.
Click to expand...

Oh, sorry.  It is Iran's and the Islamic Jihad group.

Sure     Hamas is not the government and has no control at all over Gaza.  And it did not take over the peaceful planned protest, as was proven pages ago.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli BS of course. This is not a Hamas gig.
Click to expand...


Now all You've got to do is convince Hamas that it's not their gig.
I'll even support You for once.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ for the Hamas Groupies ]

Regarding his observations from Gaza, Dershowitz related: "I was under a Hamas tunnel halfway to Gaza, then I went to the fence and I saw where the 'protesters' were going to be gathering the next day, and Israel has to protect the citizens of Sderot, and other areas around the fences. We know that Hamas gave its terrorists Google maps of the shortest route to Jewish areas, including Jewish daycare centers and kindergartens, because this was a lynch mob; this was an attempt to lynch, kill, kidnap as many Jewish civilians as possible.

(full article online)

Dershowitz on Gaza and the Golan


----------



## Sixties Fan

"Today, authorities are battling helium balloons carrying long-burning materials like charcoal. The balloons are capable of flying several kilometers into Israel and sparking fires farther afield.

Firefighters are battling at least four brushfires today sparked by Gazan arsonists.Why is Israel allowing helium into Gaza to begin with? "



Because helium is needed for many medical applications, including many respiratory diseases. I'm guessing, but it is entirely possible that the helium in Gaza is coming from hospitals.

Now imagine what would happen if and when Israel bans helium imports into Gaza to protect itself from massive forest fires.

Yup, the "human rights" NGOs will castigate Israel for depriving Gazans of the medical benefits of helium. Reuters will have stories about Gazans with COPD who cannot breathe because of Israel's evil.

(full article online)

Gazans setting fires further into Israel with helium balloons.Guess what happens when Israel bans helium to Gaza. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gaza "medics" gather at the border fence




Gaza "medic" using bolt cutters  


(full article online)

Pro-Israel Bay Bloggers: Are Medics the latest Human shields in Gaza?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Contradictions in Palestinian Accounts of Death of Razan Najjar


----------



## toobfreak

P F Tinmore said:


> So killing, destroying, and ethnic cleansing is your solution. You must be Israeli.



You know, I've checked out these threads on occasion and have made a number of irrefutable observations:

1).  Unless you live there for several years, you really don't know the whole story.
2).  The Jews are by default always wrong and to blame because they are Jews.
3).  The Jews have a real claim on the region going back 2000 years.  (Book of Numbers).
4).  The Jews agreed to a peaceful UN resolution in 1947 that would have given the Palestinians 10X the land they have today but walked out on that too.
5).  If the Israelis are killing, destroying and burning, it is only because the other side is too.  Israel's enemies for years have vowed an ethnic cleansing of Jews.
6).  Israel is by far the stronger and isn't going anywhere.  Ever.
7).  The more the Palestinians resort to terrorism, threats and violence instead of peaceful settlement, the more their goals and aims slip from their hands.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Could any country please come up with a decent solution to the Arabs breaking into Israel to destroy anything and everything in front of them, via personally or with kites or balloons ?   UN, EU, what would you do?
Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, what would you have done?  Should the military be deployed in higher numbers and have them shoot at those who attempt to cross?  What is your idea for defending your nation's borders?  ]


In 3rd illegal crossing in as many days, IDF says suspects flee back to Palestinian territory after igniting storage containers inside Israel

(full article online)

Gazan infiltrators breach border, set fire to construction equipment


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ How to stop the kites and Balloons?  This is not enough.  It will do nothing to stop it.  ]

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday ordered Israel to withhold funds from the Palestinian Authority, in order to compensate farmers living on the Gaza border who have had their crops destroyed by massive fires sparked by flaming kites sent from the Palestinian enclave.

The prime minister instructed National Security Council head Meir Ben-Shabbat to work on a process that would withhold payments to the Palestinian Authority to offset compensation for the communities living on the Gaza border, who have seen tens of thousands of acres of fields and nature reserves destroyed in blazes over the past month and a half.

The Times of Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Could any country please come up with a decent solution to the Arabs breaking into Israel to destroy anything and everything in front of them, via personally or with kites or balloons ?   UN, EU, what would you do?
> Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, what would you have done?  Should the military be deployed in higher numbers and have them shoot at those who attempt to cross?  What is your idea for defending your nation's borders?  ]
> 
> 
> In 3rd illegal crossing in as many days, IDF says suspects flee back to Palestinian territory after igniting storage containers inside Israel
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gazan infiltrators breach border, set fire to construction equipment


Oh, like Israel never destroyed anything in Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ How to stop the kites and Balloons?  This is not enough.  It will do nothing to stop it.  ]
> 
> Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday ordered Israel to withhold funds from the Palestinian Authority, in order to compensate farmers living on the Gaza border who have had their crops destroyed by massive fires sparked by flaming kites sent from the Palestinian enclave.
> 
> The prime minister instructed National Security Council head Meir Ben-Shabbat to work on a process that would withhold payments to the Palestinian Authority to offset compensation for the communities living on the Gaza border, who have seen tens of thousands of acres of fields and nature reserves destroyed in blazes over the past month and a half.
> 
> The Times of Israel


Maybe that will make the PA cut back on its security coordination with Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Could any country please come up with a decent solution to the Arabs breaking into Israel to destroy anything and everything in front of them, via personally or with kites or balloons ?   UN, EU, what would you do?
> Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, what would you have done?  Should the military be deployed in higher numbers and have them shoot at those who attempt to cross?  What is your idea for defending your nation's borders?  ]
> 
> 
> In 3rd illegal crossing in as many days, IDF says suspects flee back to Palestinian territory after igniting storage containers inside Israel
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gazan infiltrators breach border, set fire to construction equipment
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, like Israel never destroyed anything in Gaza.
Click to expand...


Oh, like Islamic terrorist attacks will pass without consequence.


----------



## Slyhunter

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ How to stop the kites and Balloons?  This is not enough.  It will do nothing to stop it.  ]
> 
> Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday ordered Israel to withhold funds from the Palestinian Authority, in order to compensate farmers living on the Gaza border who have had their crops destroyed by massive fires sparked by flaming kites sent from the Palestinian enclave.
> 
> The prime minister instructed National Security Council head Meir Ben-Shabbat to work on a process that would withhold payments to the Palestinian Authority to offset compensation for the communities living on the Gaza border, who have seen tens of thousands of acres of fields and nature reserves destroyed in blazes over the past month and a half.
> 
> The Times of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe that will make the PA cut back on its security coordination with Israel.
Click to expand...

Comment on the disguised medics cutting through the fence.
You are a Islamic lap dog.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ What should be done with the terrorists who are flying terror kites and balloons into Israel ?  ]

In an alarming escalation, an incendiary terror kite from southern Gaza was launched over the border into Israeli territory late Sunday evening, but for the first time it was carrying an improvised explosive device (IED) — a homemade bomb — instead of the firebomb that has been setting farmland ablaze over the past two months. 

The IED terror kite landed near the Kerem Shalom land crossing. The IED attached to the kite was defused by Israeli Defense Forces. No injuries were reported.

(full article online)

Gaza Terrorists Escalate Situation with IED-Bearing Kite


----------



## Hollie

Video Shows Palestinians Faking Injuries: BBC Falls for Terrible Acting in Gaza


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> *Gaza: The “simple” solution*
> 
> To formulate an effective policy regarding Gaza, we need to understand the pathology of what we are attempting to address. The source of the conflict is the physical presence of a large, implacably hostile Arab population on Israel’s southern border. Simple logic therefore dictates that to remove the source of conflict, that hostile population must be removed.
> 
> Israel will not be able to indefinitely endure recurring bouts of fighting—whenever the enemy on the other side feels sufficiently bold to launch an attack or sufficiently desperate not to be able to refrain from one.
> 
> Accordingly, the solution for Gaza is not, and cannot be, its reconstruction, but its deconstruction and the generously funded humanitarian relocation and rehabilitation of the non-belligerent Gazans to third party countries, outside the “circle of violence”.
> 
> To achieve this, the IDF cannot content itself with periodic punitive sorties, followed by a limited interbellum, in which the enemy regroups, rearms and redeploys, ready for the next round.* It must conquer the entire Gaza Strip, apprehend (otherwise dispose of) the current Gazan leadership, dismantle the current mechanism of governance and begin a vigorous program of incentivized emigration of the non-belligerent population.*
> 
> This is the “simple” solution for Gaza—and the only durable one. Of course, to say that it is “simple” does not imply that it is “easy”. Indeed, the great difficulty it entails is rooted in its brutal simplicity of “Them or Us”.
> 
> Clearly, the fact that it is relatively easy to propose such a harsh policy prescription in the air-conditioned comfort of my study does not make it any less imperative or less inevitable.
> 
> After all, denying or delaying the inevitable does not make it any less inevitable, only more costly when it inevitably comes about.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> INTO THE FRAY: Gaza - A “simple” solution



This is a very good article.

_After all, it necessarily implies that if only Israel would somehow initiate/facilitate an improvement in Gaza’s living conditions, the violence would subside. This not only reinforces the false claims that Palestinian terrorism is driven by Israeli-induced economic privation, but also that Israel bears the responsibility for such terror, which is, therefore, no more than an understandable reaction to hardship and despair, externally imposed by an alien power.

The penury in Gaza is not the cause of Arab enmity towards the Jewish state. Quite the opposite! It is Arab enmity towards the Jewish state that is the cause of penury in Gaza._


An analogy can be made of an abusive relationship.  The abuser claims entitlement to certain things and if those things are not provided responds with violence.  The target is deemed to be the offender for not providing the entitlements and therefore the cause of both the problem and the violence.  Meanwhile, the victim demands a more equal division of entitlements and insists that violence is an unacceptable way to negotiate entitlements. 

The "solution" presented here is nasty and uncomfortable, though.  I wonder if it would really bring the results it claims to (or just spread the festering wound over a greater surface).  And I wonder if could realistically be accomplished in the region. 

And I wonder if this type of "solution", as nasty as it is on the surface -- remember incentivized, though --, might save a whole lot more nasty in the future.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Gaza: The “simple” solution*
> 
> To formulate an effective policy regarding Gaza, we need to understand the pathology of what we are attempting to address. The source of the conflict is the physical presence of a large, implacably hostile Arab population on Israel’s southern border. Simple logic therefore dictates that to remove the source of conflict, that hostile population must be removed.
> 
> Israel will not be able to indefinitely endure recurring bouts of fighting—whenever the enemy on the other side feels sufficiently bold to launch an attack or sufficiently desperate not to be able to refrain from one.
> 
> Accordingly, the solution for Gaza is not, and cannot be, its reconstruction, but its deconstruction and the generously funded humanitarian relocation and rehabilitation of the non-belligerent Gazans to third party countries, outside the “circle of violence”.
> 
> To achieve this, the IDF cannot content itself with periodic punitive sorties, followed by a limited interbellum, in which the enemy regroups, rearms and redeploys, ready for the next round.* It must conquer the entire Gaza Strip, apprehend (otherwise dispose of) the current Gazan leadership, dismantle the current mechanism of governance and begin a vigorous program of incentivized emigration of the non-belligerent population.*
> 
> This is the “simple” solution for Gaza—and the only durable one. Of course, to say that it is “simple” does not imply that it is “easy”. Indeed, the great difficulty it entails is rooted in its brutal simplicity of “Them or Us”.
> 
> Clearly, the fact that it is relatively easy to propose such a harsh policy prescription in the air-conditioned comfort of my study does not make it any less imperative or less inevitable.
> 
> After all, denying or delaying the inevitable does not make it any less inevitable, only more costly when it inevitably comes about.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> INTO THE FRAY: Gaza - A “simple” solution
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a very good article.
> 
> _After all, it necessarily implies that if only Israel would somehow initiate/facilitate an improvement in Gaza’s living conditions, the violence would subside. This not only reinforces the false claims that Palestinian terrorism is driven by Israeli-induced economic privation, but also that Israel bears the responsibility for such terror, which is, therefore, no more than an understandable reaction to hardship and despair, externally imposed by an alien power.
> 
> The penury in Gaza is not the cause of Arab enmity towards the Jewish state. Quite the opposite! It is Arab enmity towards the Jewish state that is the cause of penury in Gaza._
> 
> 
> An analogy can be made of an abusive relationship.  The abuser claims entitlement to certain things and if those things are not provided responds with violence.  The target is deemed to be the offender for not providing the entitlements and therefore the cause of both the problem and the violence.  Meanwhile, the victim demands a more equal division of entitlements and insists that violence is an unacceptable way to negotiate entitlements.
> 
> The "solution" presented here is nasty and uncomfortable, though.  I wonder if it would really bring the results it claims to (or just spread the festering wound over a greater surface).  And I wonder if could realistically be accomplished in the region.
> 
> And I wonder if this type of "solution", as nasty as it is on the surface -- remember incentivized, though --, might save a whole lot more nasty in the future.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> The target is deemed to be the offender for not providing the entitlements


The Palestinians are not asking Israel to give them anything.


----------



## Slyhunter

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Gaza: The “simple” solution*
> 
> To formulate an effective policy regarding Gaza, we need to understand the pathology of what we are attempting to address. The source of the conflict is the physical presence of a large, implacably hostile Arab population on Israel’s southern border. Simple logic therefore dictates that to remove the source of conflict, that hostile population must be removed.
> 
> Israel will not be able to indefinitely endure recurring bouts of fighting—whenever the enemy on the other side feels sufficiently bold to launch an attack or sufficiently desperate not to be able to refrain from one.
> 
> Accordingly, the solution for Gaza is not, and cannot be, its reconstruction, but its deconstruction and the generously funded humanitarian relocation and rehabilitation of the non-belligerent Gazans to third party countries, outside the “circle of violence”.
> 
> To achieve this, the IDF cannot content itself with periodic punitive sorties, followed by a limited interbellum, in which the enemy regroups, rearms and redeploys, ready for the next round.* It must conquer the entire Gaza Strip, apprehend (otherwise dispose of) the current Gazan leadership, dismantle the current mechanism of governance and begin a vigorous program of incentivized emigration of the non-belligerent population.*
> 
> This is the “simple” solution for Gaza—and the only durable one. Of course, to say that it is “simple” does not imply that it is “easy”. Indeed, the great difficulty it entails is rooted in its brutal simplicity of “Them or Us”.
> 
> Clearly, the fact that it is relatively easy to propose such a harsh policy prescription in the air-conditioned comfort of my study does not make it any less imperative or less inevitable.
> 
> After all, denying or delaying the inevitable does not make it any less inevitable, only more costly when it inevitably comes about.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> INTO THE FRAY: Gaza - A “simple” solution
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a very good article.
> 
> _After all, it necessarily implies that if only Israel would somehow initiate/facilitate an improvement in Gaza’s living conditions, the violence would subside. This not only reinforces the false claims that Palestinian terrorism is driven by Israeli-induced economic privation, but also that Israel bears the responsibility for such terror, which is, therefore, no more than an understandable reaction to hardship and despair, externally imposed by an alien power.
> 
> The penury in Gaza is not the cause of Arab enmity towards the Jewish state. Quite the opposite! It is Arab enmity towards the Jewish state that is the cause of penury in Gaza._
> 
> 
> An analogy can be made of an abusive relationship.  The abuser claims entitlement to certain things and if those things are not provided responds with violence.  The target is deemed to be the offender for not providing the entitlements and therefore the cause of both the problem and the violence.  Meanwhile, the victim demands a more equal division of entitlements and insists that violence is an unacceptable way to negotiate entitlements.
> 
> The "solution" presented here is nasty and uncomfortable, though.  I wonder if it would really bring the results it claims to (or just spread the festering wound over a greater surface).  And I wonder if could realistically be accomplished in the region.
> 
> And I wonder if this type of "solution", as nasty as it is on the surface -- remember incentivized, though --, might save a whole lot more nasty in the future.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The target is deemed to be the offender for not providing the entitlements
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are not asking Israel to give them anything.
Click to expand...

liar.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Slyhunter said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Gaza: The “simple” solution*
> 
> To formulate an effective policy regarding Gaza, we need to understand the pathology of what we are attempting to address. The source of the conflict is the physical presence of a large, implacably hostile Arab population on Israel’s southern border. Simple logic therefore dictates that to remove the source of conflict, that hostile population must be removed.
> 
> Israel will not be able to indefinitely endure recurring bouts of fighting—whenever the enemy on the other side feels sufficiently bold to launch an attack or sufficiently desperate not to be able to refrain from one.
> 
> Accordingly, the solution for Gaza is not, and cannot be, its reconstruction, but its deconstruction and the generously funded humanitarian relocation and rehabilitation of the non-belligerent Gazans to third party countries, outside the “circle of violence”.
> 
> To achieve this, the IDF cannot content itself with periodic punitive sorties, followed by a limited interbellum, in which the enemy regroups, rearms and redeploys, ready for the next round.* It must conquer the entire Gaza Strip, apprehend (otherwise dispose of) the current Gazan leadership, dismantle the current mechanism of governance and begin a vigorous program of incentivized emigration of the non-belligerent population.*
> 
> This is the “simple” solution for Gaza—and the only durable one. Of course, to say that it is “simple” does not imply that it is “easy”. Indeed, the great difficulty it entails is rooted in its brutal simplicity of “Them or Us”.
> 
> Clearly, the fact that it is relatively easy to propose such a harsh policy prescription in the air-conditioned comfort of my study does not make it any less imperative or less inevitable.
> 
> After all, denying or delaying the inevitable does not make it any less inevitable, only more costly when it inevitably comes about.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> INTO THE FRAY: Gaza - A “simple” solution
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a very good article.
> 
> _After all, it necessarily implies that if only Israel would somehow initiate/facilitate an improvement in Gaza’s living conditions, the violence would subside. This not only reinforces the false claims that Palestinian terrorism is driven by Israeli-induced economic privation, but also that Israel bears the responsibility for such terror, which is, therefore, no more than an understandable reaction to hardship and despair, externally imposed by an alien power.
> 
> The penury in Gaza is not the cause of Arab enmity towards the Jewish state. Quite the opposite! It is Arab enmity towards the Jewish state that is the cause of penury in Gaza._
> 
> 
> An analogy can be made of an abusive relationship.  The abuser claims entitlement to certain things and if those things are not provided responds with violence.  The target is deemed to be the offender for not providing the entitlements and therefore the cause of both the problem and the violence.  Meanwhile, the victim demands a more equal division of entitlements and insists that violence is an unacceptable way to negotiate entitlements.
> 
> The "solution" presented here is nasty and uncomfortable, though.  I wonder if it would really bring the results it claims to (or just spread the festering wound over a greater surface).  And I wonder if could realistically be accomplished in the region.
> 
> And I wonder if this type of "solution", as nasty as it is on the surface -- remember incentivized, though --, might save a whole lot more nasty in the future.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The target is deemed to be the offender for not providing the entitlements
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are not asking Israel to give them anything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> liar.
Click to expand...

So, what do the Palestinians want Israel to give them?


----------



## Slyhunter

P F Tinmore said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Gaza: The “simple” solution*
> 
> To formulate an effective policy regarding Gaza, we need to understand the pathology of what we are attempting to address. The source of the conflict is the physical presence of a large, implacably hostile Arab population on Israel’s southern border. Simple logic therefore dictates that to remove the source of conflict, that hostile population must be removed.
> 
> Israel will not be able to indefinitely endure recurring bouts of fighting—whenever the enemy on the other side feels sufficiently bold to launch an attack or sufficiently desperate not to be able to refrain from one.
> 
> Accordingly, the solution for Gaza is not, and cannot be, its reconstruction, but its deconstruction and the generously funded humanitarian relocation and rehabilitation of the non-belligerent Gazans to third party countries, outside the “circle of violence”.
> 
> To achieve this, the IDF cannot content itself with periodic punitive sorties, followed by a limited interbellum, in which the enemy regroups, rearms and redeploys, ready for the next round.* It must conquer the entire Gaza Strip, apprehend (otherwise dispose of) the current Gazan leadership, dismantle the current mechanism of governance and begin a vigorous program of incentivized emigration of the non-belligerent population.*
> 
> This is the “simple” solution for Gaza—and the only durable one. Of course, to say that it is “simple” does not imply that it is “easy”. Indeed, the great difficulty it entails is rooted in its brutal simplicity of “Them or Us”.
> 
> Clearly, the fact that it is relatively easy to propose such a harsh policy prescription in the air-conditioned comfort of my study does not make it any less imperative or less inevitable.
> 
> After all, denying or delaying the inevitable does not make it any less inevitable, only more costly when it inevitably comes about.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> INTO THE FRAY: Gaza - A “simple” solution
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a very good article.
> 
> _After all, it necessarily implies that if only Israel would somehow initiate/facilitate an improvement in Gaza’s living conditions, the violence would subside. This not only reinforces the false claims that Palestinian terrorism is driven by Israeli-induced economic privation, but also that Israel bears the responsibility for such terror, which is, therefore, no more than an understandable reaction to hardship and despair, externally imposed by an alien power.
> 
> The penury in Gaza is not the cause of Arab enmity towards the Jewish state. Quite the opposite! It is Arab enmity towards the Jewish state that is the cause of penury in Gaza._
> 
> 
> An analogy can be made of an abusive relationship.  The abuser claims entitlement to certain things and if those things are not provided responds with violence.  The target is deemed to be the offender for not providing the entitlements and therefore the cause of both the problem and the violence.  Meanwhile, the victim demands a more equal division of entitlements and insists that violence is an unacceptable way to negotiate entitlements.
> 
> The "solution" presented here is nasty and uncomfortable, though.  I wonder if it would really bring the results it claims to (or just spread the festering wound over a greater surface).  And I wonder if could realistically be accomplished in the region.
> 
> And I wonder if this type of "solution", as nasty as it is on the surface -- remember incentivized, though --, might save a whole lot more nasty in the future.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The target is deemed to be the offender for not providing the entitlements
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are not asking Israel to give them anything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, what do the Palestinians want Israel to give them?
Click to expand...

Their lives.
They want Israelis to cease to exist in the Middle East.
They want the Jews to give them Jewish ancestral lands because they had the gall to build their own religious structures on top of the Israelis.
Otherwise they would've settled for 98% of what they wanted years ago when Clinton offered it to them.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians are not asking Israel to give them anything.



We agree.  They believe they are entitled to things they are not, in fact, entitled to.  Hence the problem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Slyhunter said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Gaza: The “simple” solution*
> 
> To formulate an effective policy regarding Gaza, we need to understand the pathology of what we are attempting to address. The source of the conflict is the physical presence of a large, implacably hostile Arab population on Israel’s southern border. Simple logic therefore dictates that to remove the source of conflict, that hostile population must be removed.
> 
> Israel will not be able to indefinitely endure recurring bouts of fighting—whenever the enemy on the other side feels sufficiently bold to launch an attack or sufficiently desperate not to be able to refrain from one.
> 
> Accordingly, the solution for Gaza is not, and cannot be, its reconstruction, but its deconstruction and the generously funded humanitarian relocation and rehabilitation of the non-belligerent Gazans to third party countries, outside the “circle of violence”.
> 
> To achieve this, the IDF cannot content itself with periodic punitive sorties, followed by a limited interbellum, in which the enemy regroups, rearms and redeploys, ready for the next round.* It must conquer the entire Gaza Strip, apprehend (otherwise dispose of) the current Gazan leadership, dismantle the current mechanism of governance and begin a vigorous program of incentivized emigration of the non-belligerent population.*
> 
> This is the “simple” solution for Gaza—and the only durable one. Of course, to say that it is “simple” does not imply that it is “easy”. Indeed, the great difficulty it entails is rooted in its brutal simplicity of “Them or Us”.
> 
> Clearly, the fact that it is relatively easy to propose such a harsh policy prescription in the air-conditioned comfort of my study does not make it any less imperative or less inevitable.
> 
> After all, denying or delaying the inevitable does not make it any less inevitable, only more costly when it inevitably comes about.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> INTO THE FRAY: Gaza - A “simple” solution
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a very good article.
> 
> _After all, it necessarily implies that if only Israel would somehow initiate/facilitate an improvement in Gaza’s living conditions, the violence would subside. This not only reinforces the false claims that Palestinian terrorism is driven by Israeli-induced economic privation, but also that Israel bears the responsibility for such terror, which is, therefore, no more than an understandable reaction to hardship and despair, externally imposed by an alien power.
> 
> The penury in Gaza is not the cause of Arab enmity towards the Jewish state. Quite the opposite! It is Arab enmity towards the Jewish state that is the cause of penury in Gaza._
> 
> 
> An analogy can be made of an abusive relationship.  The abuser claims entitlement to certain things and if those things are not provided responds with violence.  The target is deemed to be the offender for not providing the entitlements and therefore the cause of both the problem and the violence.  Meanwhile, the victim demands a more equal division of entitlements and insists that violence is an unacceptable way to negotiate entitlements.
> 
> The "solution" presented here is nasty and uncomfortable, though.  I wonder if it would really bring the results it claims to (or just spread the festering wound over a greater surface).  And I wonder if could realistically be accomplished in the region.
> 
> And I wonder if this type of "solution", as nasty as it is on the surface -- remember incentivized, though --, might save a whole lot more nasty in the future.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The target is deemed to be the offender for not providing the entitlements
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are not asking Israel to give them anything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, what do the Palestinians want Israel to give them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Their lives.
> They want Israelis to cease to exist in the Middle East.
> They want the Jews to give them Jewish ancestral lands because they had the gall to build their own religious structures on top of the Israelis.
> Otherwise they would've settled for 98% of what they wanted years ago when Clinton offered it to them.
Click to expand...

Pffft.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are not asking Israel to give them anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We agree.  They believe they are entitled to things they are not, in fact, entitled to.  Hence the problem.
Click to expand...

Like what?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ma'an reports:

 A member of the Executive Committee of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), Saleh Rafat, reiterated that the Central Council will meet after the Eid al-Fitr holiday and in the forefront of the issues to be discussed is the cessation of all forms of security coordination with Israel.

Regarding Israel’s intention of deducting the amount of damage of the (burning) kites from the tax revenues, Rafat stressed that this measure is illegal and illegitimate. He said that this comes in the framework of the piracy that Israel conducts. He demanded that Israel compensate the sons of our people that have been driven out with *trillions*, and enable them to return to their lands (or houses), in accordance with UN resolution no. 194.”
Trillions? Is that all?

That's pocket change for those people who own the banks, right?

(full article online)

PLO official says PA will stop security coordination, and that Israel should pay Palestinians TRILLIONS in compensation ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Slyhunter

Sixties Fan said:


> Ma'an reports:
> 
> A member of the Executive Committee of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), Saleh Rafat, reiterated that the Central Council will meet after the Eid al-Fitr holiday and in the forefront of the issues to be discussed is the cessation of all forms of security coordination with Israel.
> 
> Regarding Israel’s intention of deducting the amount of damage of the (burning) kites from the tax revenues, Rafat stressed that this measure is illegal and illegitimate. He said that this comes in the framework of the piracy that Israel conducts. He demanded that Israel compensate the sons of our people that have been driven out with *trillions*, and enable them to return to their lands (or houses), in accordance with UN resolution no. 194.”
> Trillions? Is that all?
> 
> That's pocket change for those people who own the banks, right?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> PLO official says PA will stop security coordination, and that Israel should pay Palestinians TRILLIONS in compensation ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Time to teach them what war is really like and to bomb their governmental facilities.


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Straight from the murderer’s mouth…*

This is scary. Hamas is saying publicly what we’ve known for years. Hamas, a terror organization, admits that the money trail leads straight to Iran. In other words, Iran supports Hamas. Terrorists supports terrorism. Yes, Hamas states that they get support from Iran. And they say it was’t cheap. That’s no surprise, considering they waste their money on building terror tunnels and ruining their economy.

(full article and video online)


THIS is what sponsoring terrorism looks like


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> *Straight from the murderer’s mouth…*
> 
> This is scary. Hamas is saying publicly what we’ve known for years. Hamas, a terror organization, admits that the money trail leads straight to Iran. In other words, Iran supports Hamas. Terrorists supports terrorism. Yes, Hamas states that they get support from Iran. And they say it was’t cheap. That’s no surprise, considering they waste their money on building terror tunnels and ruining their economy.
> 
> (full article and video online)
> 
> 
> THIS is what sponsoring terrorism looks like



What's interesting is that the two hostile, majority tribes of Islamism (Shiite Iran and Sunni Arab) will occasionally find a reason to declare a Hudna in their 1,400 year long blood feud. They will temporarily halt slaughtering each other for the purpose of Jew killing but make no mistake, these angry 7th century retrogrades despise each other. It's only a matter of time before the Sunni Arab world ramps up their slaughter of the Shiite apostates.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

However, _The Post_, while reporting that the IDF “destroyed” its 10thterror tunnel since October 2017, failed to fully note Hamas’s genocidal motivation for the attack. Instead, the paper resorted to uncritically repeating Hamas claims that “the blockade” was creating “a growing humanitarian crisis in what they describe as an open-air prison.” This, Hamas claimed, was the reason for the violence. That this “crisis” is entirely Hamas-made and could end any second should the terror group desist from attempting to destroy Israel was not mentioned. The perennial misuse of international aid by Hamas (some examples of which can be found here) was also omitted.

Nor did _The Post_ inform readers that the security blockade allows for essential supplies. Instead, the paper stated, “Israel has not granted permits to all of the injured to cross into the other Palestinian territory in the West Bank for treatment.” The report failed to inform readers that the terror group has a long history of using ill Palestinians to smuggle weapons and explosives (see, for example “Palestinian Women Tried to Smuggle Explosives as Cancer Medicine, Media Shrugs,” CAMERA, April 26, 2017).

Indeed, any semblance of Palestinian independent agency and Hamas responsibility was completely missing from _The Post’s_ dispatch. The same day as the newspaper’s report was filed, _The Times of Israel_ noted:

(full article online)

The Washington Post Questions Israeli ‘Anger’ at Hamas Attack on Israeli Schoolchildren | CAMERA


----------



## Sixties Fan

On May 14, as in all the preceding weeks, there were actually two demonstrations taking place. One, which was largely peaceful, was hundreds of meters from the border fence. The other, which was right up against the fence, was anything but peaceful. Members of terrorist organizations threw bombs, Molotov cocktails, and slingshot-propelled rocks at soldiers. They flew incendiary kites across the border to set Israeli fields ablaze (to date, some 300 of these kites have ignited 100 fires, destroyed more than 3,000 acres of wheat and caused millions of shekels worth of damage). They vandalized the fence and tried to break through it. These are the “demonstrators” Israel targeted with measures ranging from tear gas to, when necessary, live fire, as evidenced by the fact that 53 of the 62 killed belonged to terrorist organizations.

Baby Layla was taken to the nonviolent protest by her 12-year-old uncle, who mistakenly thought her mother was there. Upon discovering his mistake, he responsibly kept her in the nonviolent section until late afternoon, when she began crying. Then, wanting to hand her off to an older relative, he “pushed forward into the protest in search of her grandmother, Heyam Omar, who was standing in a crowd under a pall of black smoke, shouting at Israeli soldiers across the fence,” the _Times_ reported. Panicked by Layla’s crying, he deliberately brought her into the most violent part of the protest, where Israel was exercising its legitimate right of self-defense and where no baby should ever have been. And she died.

(full article online)

Baby Layla Shows What’s Wrong with Israel’s PR | Evelyn Gordon


----------



## rylah




----------



## Sixties Fan

An axe that the army says had been in the possession of a Palestinian man who tried to cross into Israeli territory from the southern Gaza Strip before being shot dead by IDF troops on June 4, 2018. (Israel Defense Forces)


A Gazan man armed with an ax was killed and another man was injured as they tried to breach the security fence Monday, the military said.

According to the Israel Defense Forces, the two men approached the security fence east of Khan Younis in the southern Gaza Strip, damaged the barrier and tried to enter Israeli territory.

“IDF troops arrived at the scene and opened fire, killing one of the terrorists,” the army said.


(full article online)

IDF: Gazan armed with ax shot dead while trying to breach fence


----------



## rylah

"Cause I always bring a machete to_ Peaceful Protests_"


----------



## Sixties Fan

“It would seem to me that in a journalistic environment where nine out of ten articles that are written about the Gaza conflict are critical of Israel, you’d think that some journalists would take the time and go and meet with experts and try to understand what could have been done differently or better before they criticize. And I just haven’t seen it,” Friedman said at a media conference in Jerusalem.

Friedman said he had spent a great deal of time speaking to military experts in the US, Israel and other countries about the proper rules of engagement — which he said reporters should have done — and had found that the criticism of Israel was for the most part unfounded.

(full article online)

US envoy to reporters: ‘Keep your mouths shut’ on criticizing Israel over Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ What would any country have done to deal with this flying threats to its territories?  ]

Total of at least 17,500 dunams – nearly 7 square miles – of land burned as Palestinians repeatedly send airborne incendiary devices across border


Since the first few weeks of Gaza’s “March of Return,” young Palestinians have been flying so-called “incendiary kites” into Israeli territory, setting fire to vast swaths of grasslands, agricultural fields and nature reserves.

More recently, however, a new arson tactic has been gaining popularity along the Gaza border. Instead of kites, a different children’s toy is being flown into Israel: helium balloons.


(full article and video online)

Beyond kites: ‘Fire balloons’ increasingly used to set southern Israel ablaze


----------



## Sixties Fan

"First of all, it must be clear that we are unwilling to accept the kite routine, nor riots on the fence, nor attempts to breach the fence and cause damage to works or to sovereign Israeli territory," Liberman said.

"Therefore, we will act accordingly. I just want to emphasize that we will act in accordance with the Israeli interest, at the time and circumstance advantageous to us, when we decide, but in any case I don't customarily leave accounts open and we'll close all accounts with Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and all the rest of the terrorists acting against us from the Gaza Strip.

"To date, some 600 kites have been launched, of which 400 have been successfully intercepted using technological means. About 200 have reached our territory, causing 198 fires and burning about 9,000 dunams (2,225 acres) of agricultural crops and forest," Liberman said.

(full article online)

Defense Minister: 'We'll close accounts with Hamas and Jihad'


----------



## Sixties Fan

Kahlon says 25 claims have been filed, which relate to damage to 5,000 dunams of wheat fields, orchards and irrigation systems.

“In order to make it easier for the farmers to get through this difficult period, we decided today to grant advances of 50% of the estimated cost of damages and the rest will be dealt with as quickly as possible without delays,” Kahlon says.

(full article online)

Kahlon: Gaza-area farmers to immediately get 50% of damages from ‘kite terror’


----------



## Sixties Fan

Analysis: Seeking to turn the strip into Islamic State’s ‘Sinai district,’ radical Muslim organizations fired rockets at the Gaza vicinity communities Saturday night in a bid to get the Israeli army to enter the strip for another round of fighting. Meanwhile, the only reasonable solution as far as Israel is concerned is a long-term arrangement with Hamas.

(full article online)

Rebel groups trying to drag IDF into war in Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Analysis: Seeking to turn the strip into Islamic State’s ‘Sinai district,’ radical Muslim organizations fired rockets at the Gaza vicinity communities Saturday night in a bid to get the Israeli army to enter the strip for another round of fighting. Meanwhile, the only reasonable solution as far as Israel is concerned is a long-term arrangement with Hamas.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Rebel groups trying to drag IDF into war in Gaza


Israel really needs to resolve this issue. Just shooting the place up regularly is just digging itself into a deeper hole.


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> Analysis: Seeking to turn the strip into Islamic State’s ‘Sinai district,’ radical Muslim organizations fired rockets at the Gaza vicinity communities Saturday night in a bid to get the Israeli army to enter the strip for another round of fighting. Meanwhile, the only reasonable solution as far as Israel is concerned is a long-term arrangement with Hamas.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Rebel groups trying to drag IDF into war in Gaza


The interesting element in the above is that ISIS has been slaughtering moslems across Iraq and Syria in the most brutal and inventive ways. They are also very adept at making slickly produced videos documenting the burning, shooting, smooshing, tearing apart, asplodin' etc. of their moslem victims. 

At some point, we may see Hamas Cultists starring in ISIS videos. Hamas needs to start sucking up -big time- to israel for protection.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Analysis: Seeking to turn the strip into Islamic State’s ‘Sinai district,’ radical Muslim organizations fired rockets at the Gaza vicinity communities Saturday night in a bid to get the Israeli army to enter the strip for another round of fighting. Meanwhile, the only reasonable solution as far as Israel is concerned is a long-term arrangement with Hamas.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Rebel groups trying to drag IDF into war in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really needs to resolve this issue. Just shooting the place up regularly is just digging itself into a deeper hole.
Click to expand...


ISIS attacking Hamas is an islamic terrorist vs. Islamic terrorist problem. Aren't folks like you the first to launch into seething rants complaining of Israeli "interference"? 

Here's your chance to manage your own affairs. Grab your koran and some kite string.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Keren Kayemeth LeIsrael (the Jewish National Fund) says it intends to sue the Hamas terrorist organization for environmental damage in the areas near the Gaza strip that have been heavily damaged by repeated arson attacks emanating from the Palestinian territory.

(full article online)

KKL suing Hamas for environmental damage caused by arson kites


----------



## Sixties Fan

Originally it was announced that today, for Naksa Day, there would be lots of demonstrations near the fence, although reports also say that since this Friday is the last Friday in Ramadan, the Hamas protest organizers are “saving it” for then.

Any instance of these “March of Return” protests (mistakenly described as “peaceful protests” by all sorts of publications such as “Democracy Now” and others, written by people who obviously live in Lala Land … ro wherever… at any rate NOT here in the Gaza Envelope) usually include tire-burning protesters, whipped into a frenzy by their leaders. (Ironically, I hear on the car radio as I am driving, that today is World Environment Day. The black smoke from the tires and the burning fields make it kind of clear that not everyone gives a hoot about that.) Protesters usually try to damage and breach the fence, throwing rocks and molotov cocktails at IDF soldiers, planting booby traps near the fence and even shooting. While the IDF use crowd control methods on the thousands of incited people, desperate and angry about their hopeless lives in Gaza, turning their fury against the fences rather than their leaders who have lead them there, sometimes, when it gets really out of hand with burning tires turning the air thick and black, rubber bullets and even live ammunition are used in order to prevent thousands from breaching the border – because if that were to happen, a massacre would be practically unavoidable. And that’s when protesters get wounded or killed. And that’s when the rockets start again.

At any case, as a person who lives here and travels here, I have to admit that I am just a wee bit concerned about this trip today. I will NOT change my plans (as I sometimes have – when my instincts and reactions to the winds of change have caused me to cancel travelling). Because every time I do that, terror wins. Because THAT is the target of terror. THAT is what the Hamas are trying to do – to make Israelis afraid in our own land.

(full article online)

Naksa Day in the Gaza Envelope


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Analysis: Seeking to turn the strip into Islamic State’s ‘Sinai district,’ radical Muslim organizations fired rockets at the Gaza vicinity communities Saturday night in a bid to get the Israeli army to enter the strip for another round of fighting. Meanwhile, the only reasonable solution as far as Israel is concerned is a long-term arrangement with Hamas.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Rebel groups trying to drag IDF into war in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really needs to resolve this issue. Just shooting the place up regularly is just digging itself into a deeper hole.
Click to expand...


Actually it's the Hamas and Islamic Jihad with their Iranian funding that  are getting further and further away from any relevancy and support in the Arab world.
While Israeli Arab relations improve.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas attacked "martyr medic"s memorial service ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF: Gazan medic shot dead last week was not deliberately targeted


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Riot Control Technology That Could Be Very Effective in Repelling Gazan Rioters


----------



## Sixties Fan

Tuesday's fence protests expected to be limited, as most events marking 51 years since Arab defeat in Six-Day war will take place on Friday in a bid to synchronize protests with 'Jerusalem Day' events in Iran; IDF presents grenades tossed at soldiers on Gaza-Israel buffer zone.

(full article online)

Most Naksa Day protests postponed to Friday


----------



## Sixties Fan

‘Horrific’ journalism at Daily Express – parrots PA propaganda that Israel shoots kids


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


>



I would hope that Israel follows through and diverts welfare funds dedicated to the islamic terrorist franchises and uses those funds to reimburse israeli farmers and to restore / replant forested areas that were burned out.


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Riot Control Technology That Could Be Very Effective in Repelling Gazan Rioters



Seems to me a wall would be easier.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> IDF: Gazan medic shot dead last week was not deliberately targeted


I have a bridge in New York for sale.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> IDF: Gazan medic shot dead last week was not deliberately targeted
> 
> 
> 
> I have a bridge in New York for sale.
Click to expand...


There's no evidence to suggest the so-called medic was targeted.

You have a YouTube video?


----------



## Sixties Fan

A Gaza Toy Story


----------



## Sixties Fan

Australia/Israel & Jewish Affairs Council | AIJAC writes to the ABC asking it to explain the lack of coverage of Gaza rocket attacks


----------



## Sixties Fan

Yesterday:
 An incendiary kite flown from Gaza sparked a major fire in an open field across from the Sapir College in the Sha’ar HaNegev Regional Council, near the southern city of Sderot on Tuesday afternoon.

Heavy smoke covered the college building as firefighters were dispatched to the area and worked to prevent the fire from spreading to the nearby road and into the college. There were no reports of injuries.

(full article online)

Gaza kite fire at Sapir College - after far-left professor there supports Hamas ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

This video of a young, female Gaza medic (probably not Razan a-Najjar, at least not her on Friday) with Red Crescent clothes and throwing an incendiary device is going around:

(vide video online)

Do all medics throw incendiary devices, or only in Gaza? (video) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Yesterday:
> An incendiary kite flown from Gaza sparked a major fire in an open field across from the Sapir College in the Sha’ar HaNegev Regional Council, near the southern city of Sderot on Tuesday afternoon.
> 
> Heavy smoke covered the college building as firefighters were dispatched to the area and worked to prevent the fire from spreading to the nearby road and into the college. There were no reports of injuries.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gaza kite fire at Sapir College - after far-left professor there supports Hamas ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Israel really needs to end its war.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday:
> An incendiary kite flown from Gaza sparked a major fire in an open field across from the Sapir College in the Sha’ar HaNegev Regional Council, near the southern city of Sderot on Tuesday afternoon.
> 
> Heavy smoke covered the college building as firefighters were dispatched to the area and worked to prevent the fire from spreading to the nearby road and into the college. There were no reports of injuries.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gaza kite fire at Sapir College - after far-left professor there supports Hamas ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really needs to end its war.
Click to expand...


Israel is not the one that declared war on the Arabs.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday:
> An incendiary kite flown from Gaza sparked a major fire in an open field across from the Sapir College in the Sha’ar HaNegev Regional Council, near the southern city of Sderot on Tuesday afternoon.
> 
> Heavy smoke covered the college building as firefighters were dispatched to the area and worked to prevent the fire from spreading to the nearby road and into the college. There were no reports of injuries.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gaza kite fire at Sapir College - after far-left professor there supports Hamas ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really needs to end its war.
Click to expand...


It is not Israel attempting to invade Gaza. 

You really do have difficulties with cognitive processes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday:
> An incendiary kite flown from Gaza sparked a major fire in an open field across from the Sapir College in the Sha’ar HaNegev Regional Council, near the southern city of Sderot on Tuesday afternoon.
> 
> Heavy smoke covered the college building as firefighters were dispatched to the area and worked to prevent the fire from spreading to the nearby road and into the college. There were no reports of injuries.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gaza kite fire at Sapir College - after far-left professor there supports Hamas ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really needs to end its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is not the one that declared war on the Arabs.
Click to expand...

Violence is required to start and maintain an occupation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday:
> An incendiary kite flown from Gaza sparked a major fire in an open field across from the Sapir College in the Sha’ar HaNegev Regional Council, near the southern city of Sderot on Tuesday afternoon.
> 
> Heavy smoke covered the college building as firefighters were dispatched to the area and worked to prevent the fire from spreading to the nearby road and into the college. There were no reports of injuries.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gaza kite fire at Sapir College - after far-left professor there supports Hamas ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really needs to end its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is not Israel attempting to invade Gaza.
> 
> You really do have difficulties with cognitive processes.
Click to expand...

Israel did that a long time ago.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday:
> An incendiary kite flown from Gaza sparked a major fire in an open field across from the Sapir College in the Sha’ar HaNegev Regional Council, near the southern city of Sderot on Tuesday afternoon.
> 
> Heavy smoke covered the college building as firefighters were dispatched to the area and worked to prevent the fire from spreading to the nearby road and into the college. There were no reports of injuries.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gaza kite fire at Sapir College - after far-left professor there supports Hamas ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really needs to end its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is not Israel attempting to invade Gaza.
> 
> You really do have difficulties with cognitive processes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel did that a long time ago.
Click to expand...


Admitting your cognitive dysfunction is a first step.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Fogel also expressed a willingness to compromise - with Hamas.

"I'm willing to give Hamas everything it wants, except the Right of Return and expelling Jews. Will it help? It won't help. They have patience and the only way to kill that patience is to bring it to their homes and not wait for a tunnel, kite, or rocket. We need to give them a bullet in the head and ensure quiet."

(full article online)

The solution to Gaza: 'A bullet to the head'


----------



## Sixties Fan

These incidents of setting fires deliberately were reported almost as afterthoughts in Israeli press in the 1920s and 1930s. Here's an example from 1936:





(full article online)

Forest Jihad: Palestinian Arabs have been setting terror fires since the 1920s ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Most of the fires have been extinguished, but firefighters are working at a number locations to gain control of the blazes.






Firefighters work to extinguish a blaze in the Be’eri Forest on June 6, 2018. (Melanie Lidman/Times of Israel)


22 fires started along Gaza border as apparent incendiary kite attacks persist


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Oh, my. How could anyone suggest that Islamic terrorists are violent?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Escaping reality on the Gaza border


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday:
> An incendiary kite flown from Gaza sparked a major fire in an open field across from the Sapir College in the Sha’ar HaNegev Regional Council, near the southern city of Sderot on Tuesday afternoon.
> 
> Heavy smoke covered the college building as firefighters were dispatched to the area and worked to prevent the fire from spreading to the nearby road and into the college. There were no reports of injuries.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gaza kite fire at Sapir College - after far-left professor there supports Hamas ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really needs to end its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is not the one that declared war on the Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Violence is required to start and maintain an occupation.
Click to expand...


Violence is exactly how Arabs occupied Palestine and the rest of the middle east.
Arabs in Syria-Palestine are no different, have never been peaceful.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



So many journalists, hundreds of cameras,
...yet so much story telling and no actual footage of the moment of injury.

Typical pallywod fakery.


----------



## Sixties Fan

*They burn - we plant*

Jewish National Fund will join Gaza area residents' initiative and hold planting events in surrounding communities this week.

(full article online)

They burn - we plant


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> *They burn - we plant*
> 
> Jewish National Fund will join Gaza area residents' initiative and hold planting events in surrounding communities this week.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> They burn - we plant


When are they going to replant some of the trees that Israel bulldozed in Gaza?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Commenting on the video, in which Najjar is seen being interviewed and throwing a grenade, Adraee wrote in Arabic, “Razan Najjar is not the queen of mercy, as Hamas is trying to present her. She admitted that she served as a human shield for rioters, and this proves how Hamas exploits all members of Gaza society for its goals and those of Iran.”

“Do other paramedics around the world throw grenades and participate in riots, and call themselves human shields?” he asked.

(full article online)

Watch: Gaza medic throws grenade


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Commenting on the video, in which Najjar is seen being interviewed and throwing a grenade, Adraee wrote in Arabic, “Razan Najjar is not the queen of mercy, as Hamas is trying to present her. She admitted that she served as a human shield for rioters, and this proves how Hamas exploits all members of Gaza society for its goals and those of Iran.”
> 
> “Do other paramedics around the world throw grenades and participate in riots, and call themselves human shields?” he asked.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Watch: Gaza medic throws grenade


That wasn't a grenade. That was Israeli tear gas. Who gave her that?

Grenade? What can you expect from an Israeli propaganda organization?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Commenting on the video, in which Najjar is seen being interviewed and throwing a grenade, Adraee wrote in Arabic, “Razan Najjar is not the queen of mercy, as Hamas is trying to present her. She admitted that she served as a human shield for rioters, and this proves how Hamas exploits all members of Gaza society for its goals and those of Iran.”
> 
> “Do other paramedics around the world throw grenades and participate in riots, and call themselves human shields?” he asked.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Watch: Gaza medic throws grenade
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't a grenade. That was Israeli tear gas. Who gave her that?
> 
> Grenade? What can you expect from an Israeli propaganda organization?
Click to expand...


You miss the point.  What it was NOT was providing medical care to the wounded, and instead was an active participant in the conflict.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Commenting on the video, in which Najjar is seen being interviewed and throwing a grenade, Adraee wrote in Arabic, “Razan Najjar is not the queen of mercy, as Hamas is trying to present her. She admitted that she served as a human shield for rioters, and this proves how Hamas exploits all members of Gaza society for its goals and those of Iran.”
> 
> “Do other paramedics around the world throw grenades and participate in riots, and call themselves human shields?” he asked.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Watch: Gaza medic throws grenade
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't a grenade. That was Israeli tear gas. Who gave her that?
> 
> Grenade? What can you expect from an Israeli propaganda organization?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You miss the point.  What it was NOT was providing medical care to the wounded, and instead was an active participant in the conflict.
Click to expand...

She was just having some fun with Israel's toys.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Commenting on the video, in which Najjar is seen being interviewed and throwing a grenade, Adraee wrote in Arabic, “Razan Najjar is not the queen of mercy, as Hamas is trying to present her. She admitted that she served as a human shield for rioters, and this proves how Hamas exploits all members of Gaza society for its goals and those of Iran.”
> 
> “Do other paramedics around the world throw grenades and participate in riots, and call themselves human shields?” he asked.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Watch: Gaza medic throws grenade
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't a grenade. That was Israeli tear gas. Who gave her that?
> 
> Grenade? What can you expect from an Israeli propaganda organization?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You miss the point.  What it was NOT was providing medical care to the wounded, and instead was an active participant in the conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She was just having some fun with Israel's toys.
Click to expand...


Funny how war crimes are "just having fun" if they are Arabs.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Commenting on the video, in which Najjar is seen being interviewed and throwing a grenade, Adraee wrote in Arabic, “Razan Najjar is not the queen of mercy, as Hamas is trying to present her. She admitted that she served as a human shield for rioters, and this proves how Hamas exploits all members of Gaza society for its goals and those of Iran.”
> 
> “Do other paramedics around the world throw grenades and participate in riots, and call themselves human shields?” he asked.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Watch: Gaza medic throws grenade
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't a grenade. That was Israeli tear gas. Who gave her that?
> 
> Grenade? What can you expect from an Israeli propaganda organization?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You miss the point.  What it was NOT was providing medical care to the wounded, and instead was an active participant in the conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She was just having some fun with Israel's toys.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how war crimes are "just having fun" if they are Arabs.
Click to expand...

Why do you always use the term Arab. Are you racist?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Commenting on the video, in which Najjar is seen being interviewed and throwing a grenade, Adraee wrote in Arabic, “Razan Najjar is not the queen of mercy, as Hamas is trying to present her. She admitted that she served as a human shield for rioters, and this proves how Hamas exploits all members of Gaza society for its goals and those of Iran.”
> 
> “Do other paramedics around the world throw grenades and participate in riots, and call themselves human shields?” he asked.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Watch: Gaza medic throws grenade
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't a grenade. That was Israeli tear gas. Who gave her that?
> 
> Grenade? What can you expect from an Israeli propaganda organization?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You miss the point.  What it was NOT was providing medical care to the wounded, and instead was an active participant in the conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She was just having some fun with Israel's toys.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how war crimes are "just having fun" if they are Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you always use the term Arab. Are you racist?
Click to expand...


Is Arab a race?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Commenting on the video, in which Najjar is seen being interviewed and throwing a grenade, Adraee wrote in Arabic, “Razan Najjar is not the queen of mercy, as Hamas is trying to present her. She admitted that she served as a human shield for rioters, and this proves how Hamas exploits all members of Gaza society for its goals and those of Iran.”
> 
> “Do other paramedics around the world throw grenades and participate in riots, and call themselves human shields?” he asked.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Watch: Gaza medic throws grenade
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't a grenade. That was Israeli tear gas. Who gave her that?
> 
> Grenade? What can you expect from an Israeli propaganda organization?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You miss the point.  What it was NOT was providing medical care to the wounded, and instead was an active participant in the conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She was just having some fun with Israel's toys.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how war crimes are "just having fun" if they are Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you always use the term Arab. Are you racist?
Click to expand...


To differentiate between Arab Palestinians and Jewish Palestinians.

Nice deflection, though.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't a grenade. That was Israeli tear gas. Who gave her that?
> 
> Grenade? What can you expect from an Israeli propaganda organization?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You miss the point.  What it was NOT was providing medical care to the wounded, and instead was an active participant in the conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She was just having some fun with Israel's toys.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how war crimes are "just having fun" if they are Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you always use the term Arab. Are you racist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To differentiate between Arab Palestinians and Jewish Palestinians.
> 
> Nice deflection, though.
Click to expand...

The Palestinians didn't make that distinction.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians didn't make that distinction.



Sure they do.  At the border they are very distinct about ripping the hearts out of Jews.  And at the Temple Mount they are very clear that Jewish traditions, prayers and symbols are not permitted.  And 'settlers' are always Jewish.  And those are just three easy examples.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You miss the point.  What it was NOT was providing medical care to the wounded, and instead was an active participant in the conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> She was just having some fun with Israel's toys.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how war crimes are "just having fun" if they are Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you always use the term Arab. Are you racist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To differentiate between Arab Palestinians and Jewish Palestinians.
> 
> Nice deflection, though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians didn't make that distinction.
Click to expand...


They sure did when they could enforce the dhimmi status on the non-Islamics.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> She was just having some fun with Israel's toys.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how war crimes are "just having fun" if they are Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you always use the term Arab. Are you racist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To differentiate between Arab Palestinians and Jewish Palestinians.
> 
> Nice deflection, though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians didn't make that distinction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They sure did when they could enforce the dhimmi status on the non-Islamics.
Click to expand...

They never had a dhimmi status in Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how war crimes are "just having fun" if they are Arabs.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you always use the term Arab. Are you racist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To differentiate between Arab Palestinians and Jewish Palestinians.
> 
> Nice deflection, though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians didn't make that distinction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They sure did when they could enforce the dhimmi status on the non-Islamics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They never had a dhimmi status in Palestine.
Click to expand...


Of course they did. You are just hoping to deny history.


----------



## Sixties Fan

“Citizens of Gaza, peace be unto you, may you have a blessed month of Ramadan,” the flyer opened, “a wise man is one who takes into account the consequences of his actions in advance and chooses the deed in which the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.”

The IDF warned protesters not to take part in violent riots or to try and cross the border. “Do not to let Hamas use you as pawns for its narrow interests, behind which stands Shiite Iran that has set a goal of igniting the region for its religious and ethnic interests,” the flyer read.

“You should not allow Hamas to turn you into a hostage, so that they gain political capital at the expense of the welfare and future of Gaza’s citizens in general and the young people in particular. To prevent harmful consequences – we urge you not to take part in the riots and the anarchy and not to put yourself in harm’s way,” the flyer concluded.

(full article online)

IDF Drops Warning Flyers on Gaza Ahead of Border Protests


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> “Citizens of Gaza, peace be unto you, may you have a blessed month of Ramadan,” the flyer opened, “a wise man is one who takes into account the consequences of his actions in advance and chooses the deed in which the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.”
> 
> The IDF warned protesters not to take part in violent riots or to try and cross the border. “Do not to let Hamas use you as pawns for its narrow interests, behind which stands Shiite Iran that has set a goal of igniting the region for its religious and ethnic interests,” the flyer read.
> 
> “You should not allow Hamas to turn you into a hostage, so that they gain political capital at the expense of the welfare and future of Gaza’s citizens in general and the young people in particular. To prevent harmful consequences – we urge you not to take part in the riots and the anarchy and not to put yourself in harm’s way,” the flyer concluded.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> IDF Drops Warning Flyers on Gaza Ahead of Border Protests


The protest was not a Hamas gig.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Citizens of Gaza, peace be unto you, may you have a blessed month of Ramadan,” the flyer opened, “a wise man is one who takes into account the consequences of his actions in advance and chooses the deed in which the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.”
> 
> The IDF warned protesters not to take part in violent riots or to try and cross the border. “Do not to let Hamas use you as pawns for its narrow interests, behind which stands Shiite Iran that has set a goal of igniting the region for its religious and ethnic interests,” the flyer read.
> 
> “You should not allow Hamas to turn you into a hostage, so that they gain political capital at the expense of the welfare and future of Gaza’s citizens in general and the young people in particular. To prevent harmful consequences – we urge you not to take part in the riots and the anarchy and not to put yourself in harm’s way,” the flyer concluded.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> IDF Drops Warning Flyers on Gaza Ahead of Border Protests
> 
> 
> 
> The protest was not a Hamas gig.
Click to expand...


1,000 protest on Gaza border as Hamas chief vows to lead new demonstrations


----------



## Slyhunter

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Citizens of Gaza, peace be unto you, may you have a blessed month of Ramadan,” the flyer opened, “a wise man is one who takes into account the consequences of his actions in advance and chooses the deed in which the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.”
> 
> The IDF warned protesters not to take part in violent riots or to try and cross the border. “Do not to let Hamas use you as pawns for its narrow interests, behind which stands Shiite Iran that has set a goal of igniting the region for its religious and ethnic interests,” the flyer read.
> 
> “You should not allow Hamas to turn you into a hostage, so that they gain political capital at the expense of the welfare and future of Gaza’s citizens in general and the young people in particular. To prevent harmful consequences – we urge you not to take part in the riots and the anarchy and not to put yourself in harm’s way,” the flyer concluded.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> IDF Drops Warning Flyers on Gaza Ahead of Border Protests
> 
> 
> 
> The protest was not a Hamas gig.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1,000 protest on Gaza border as Hamas chief vows to lead new demonstrations
Click to expand...

Good, easier to kill that way.


----------



## Sixties Fan

4,000 Gazans mass at border, burn tires ahead of clashes


----------



## Slyhunter

Sixties Fan said:


> 4,000 Gazans mass at border, burn tires ahead of clashes


shoot everyone with a tire or kite.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Car ramming, suicide belts......Palestine's next export may just be......  ]

The Arabs of Gaza have set over 250 fires, burning nearly seven square miles of land (4,300 acres), more than half of it in nature reserves, in what has turned out to be the latest piece of Arab terrorist innovation: Environmental terrorism perpetrated through the release of kites – decorated with swastikas – and helium balloons on fire. It has become known as “kite terror”. The fires, specifically those in nature reserves, have also wreaked havoc on local wildlife, so that not only humans pay the price for the Gazan Arabs’ unceasing rage, but also animals.

Just as the Arabs of the PLO invented modern day terrorism – airplane hijackings, airport massacres, school and school bus massacres, athlete massacres, suicide bombings, especially of buses, restaurants and nightclubs, car ramming attacks (also known as vehicular jihad) – the Arabs of Hamas in Gaza, have innovated environmental terrorism (in addition to inventing terror tunnels and perfecting the war crime of using civilians as human shields).

Knowing how the rest of the PLO inventions have traveled the globe and ended up being used by other Muslim terrorists in both the US and Europe, the tactic may yet become a Gaza export.

(full article online)

The Pyromaniacs of Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore

*How is the Great Return March driving grassroots Palestinian activism?*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *How is the Great Return March driving grassroots Palestinian activism?*



It's not.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Great March of Return and the Gaza Massacre.*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Great March of Return and the Gaza Massacre.*




*"The Great Islamic Terrorist Beat down"*

No success at breaching the Israeli border.

No deaths of Israeli citizens.

More than one hundred gee-had'ees

Islamics asplode' their own power station.


----------



## Hollie

Palestinians Bomb Their Own Power Plant, Send Parts of Gaza into Darkness


It seems Allah has played a cruel joke on Arabs-Moslems.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Any other country would have shot at the Kite terrorists.......]


Rioter-terrorists hurled a hand grenade and a pipe bomb at IDF soldiers, as well as a kite carrying an explosive charge.

(full article online)

10,000 Arabs storm Gaza border, use kites to set fires in Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

During the recent protests, we saw thousands of civilians — men, women, and children — massing near the buffer zones established at the edge of the Israeli security fence. Hamas tried to pass them all off as peaceful protesters.

But their true purpose was to cause chaos, enter Israel, and overwhelm the border. And when the IDF dared used force to stop them, the soldiers were decried as murderers of innocent civilians.

And when Palestinians were killed, Hamas gloated. They had gotten what they wanted. They counted their dead as media victories. And all of this went exactly as planned.

More than 100 Palestinians died and thousands were wounded. For once, however, Hamas had trapped itself with its own propaganda by proudly publishing the identity of the majority of the victims, who clearly belonged to the terror group.

The Western media refused to tell the true story of what happened in Gaza. To view a video showing the real story, please visit us here: .

(full article online)

Exposing the Truth About the Gaza Riots


----------



## Hollie

Islamic misfits. The aggressors and the victims.

Palestinians set fire to gas pipes at Kerem Shalom crossing

According to the IDF, the fuel installation is the only way to bring diesel fuel into Gaza for operating generators for hospitals and other key facilities.

A video from the Kerem Shalom crossing shows Palestinians cheering as a fire was set.


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF Soldier Describes Real Life on the Gaza Front


----------



## Sixties Fan

WATCH: For Gaza Belt Residents, Paradise Outweighs Hell of Cross-Border Attacks


----------



## P F Tinmore

The thread title is misleading. There is no border there.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The thread title is misleading. There is no border there.



You’re more befuddled with every attempt at stringing words in to what we call “sentences”. The men and women in uniform who are keeping the Islamist beast behind a security fence know where the border is located. 

You can discover for yourself the location of the border defended by the IDF. Do what you Islamics like to do: stand behind a pre-teen girl and push her toward the pointy end of an M4 carbine shouldered by an IDF soldier.


----------



## Hollie

Four more Arab-Moslems took early retirement from the gee-had.


And Allah knows best.



Palestinians killed in protest near Israel-Gaza border

Israeli troops used tear gas and live ammunition on thousands of Palestinian protestors Friday. Officials say four were killed and over 600 were wounded.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border 
※→  Nollie, _et al,_

this is a very good posting.  What I found most interesting is that the protestors know that the "march" is for propogandapurposes only: 


			
				Protester Fadi Saleh said:
			
		

> the frequent marches have helped revive sympathies in the Arab world for the Palestinians, but that more could be done.





Hollie said:


> Four more Arab-Moslems took early retirement from the gee-had.
> And Allah knows best.
> 
> Palestinians killed in protest near Israel-Gaza border
> 
> Israeli troops used tear gas and live ammunition on thousands of Palestinian protestors Friday. Officials say four were killed and over 600 were wounded.


*(COMMENT)*

*Rule 97. The use of human shields is prohibited.*​
Most Respectfully.
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  Nollie, _et al,_
> 
> this is a very good posting.  What I found most interesting is that the protestors know that the "march" is for propogandapurposes only:
> 
> 
> 
> Protester Fadi Saleh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the frequent marches have helped revive sympathies in the Arab world for the Palestinians, but that more could be done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Four more Arab-Moslems took early retirement from the gee-had.
> And Allah knows best.
> 
> Palestinians killed in protest near Israel-Gaza border
> 
> Israeli troops used tear gas and live ammunition on thousands of Palestinian protestors Friday. Officials say four were killed and over 600 were wounded.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *Rule 97. The use of human shields is prohibited.*​
> Most Respectfully.
> R
Click to expand...

Indeed, protests *are* political theatre. Without an audience, they are useless. Most nonviolent Palestinian protests go unnoticed. This one is too big to ignore.

That is Israel's big problem with Nabi Saleh. They post their protests on Twitter, Facebook, and Youtube. When Israel attacks them for posting their protests, those attacks get posted on Twitter, Facebook, and Youtube. Israel is up a tree.

BTW, this protest is not a Hamas gig.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arab media reported that the IDF attacked a stockpile of kites which had been prepared for use. The IDF also confirmed that soldiers had fired warning shots at Gazans preparing balloons armed with explosives for use against Israel.

"The IDF takes the use of incendiary and explosive balloons and kites very seriously, and will work t prevent their use," the IDF said in a statement.

Separately, the IDF arrested a Gazan terrorist attempting to infiltrate Israel on Saturday evening. The Gazan was found to be in possession of a slingshot.

(full article online)

Kite terror sparks 17 fires in Israel


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  Nollie, _et al,_
> 
> this is a very good posting.  What I found most interesting is that the protestors know that the "march" is for propogandapurposes only:
> 
> 
> 
> Protester Fadi Saleh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the frequent marches have helped revive sympathies in the Arab world for the Palestinians, but that more could be done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Four more Arab-Moslems took early retirement from the gee-had.
> And Allah knows best.
> 
> Palestinians killed in protest near Israel-Gaza border
> 
> Israeli troops used tear gas and live ammunition on thousands of Palestinian protestors Friday. Officials say four were killed and over 600 were wounded.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *Rule 97. The use of human shields is prohibited.*​
> Most Respectfully.
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, protests *are* political theatre. Without an audience, they are useless. Most nonviolent Palestinian protests go unnoticed. This one is too big to ignore.
> 
> That is Israel's big problem with Nabi Saleh. They post their protests on Twitter, Facebook, and Youtube. When Israel attacks them for posting their protests, those attacks get posted on Twitter, Facebook, and Youtube. Israel is up a tree.
> 
> BTW, this protest is not a Hamas gig.
Click to expand...


The violent provocation is definitely a Hamas gig, 
they admit it openly and take active part in the organization.


----------



## rylah

*Hamas Leader in Gaza: Our People Took Off Their Military Uniforms and Joined the Marches*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Arab media reported that the IDF attacked a stockpile of kites which had been prepared for use. The IDF also confirmed that soldiers had fired warning shots at Gazans preparing balloons armed with explosives for use against Israel.
> 
> "The IDF takes the use of incendiary and explosive balloons and kites very seriously, and will work t prevent their use," the IDF said in a statement.
> 
> Separately, the IDF arrested a Gazan terrorist attempting to infiltrate Israel on Saturday evening. The Gazan was found to be in possession of a slingshot.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Kite terror sparks 17 fires in Israel


Was that a fully automatic slingshot with a 30 round clip?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab media reported that the IDF attacked a stockpile of kites which had been prepared for use. The IDF also confirmed that soldiers had fired warning shots at Gazans preparing balloons armed with explosives for use against Israel.
> 
> "The IDF takes the use of incendiary and explosive balloons and kites very seriously, and will work t prevent their use," the IDF said in a statement.
> 
> Separately, the IDF arrested a Gazan terrorist attempting to infiltrate Israel on Saturday evening. The Gazan was found to be in possession of a slingshot.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Kite terror sparks 17 fires in Israel
> 
> 
> 
> Was that a fully automatic slingshot with a 30 round clip?
Click to expand...


It was gee-had denied.


----------



## rylah

*Hamas's Mahmoud Al-Zahhar on Gaza Protests:
"Not a peaceful resistance"
*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> BTW, this protest is not a Hamas gig.



I’m not sure you understand the terms and definitions you use. With the vast majority of those retired from the gee-had being Hamas flunkies, Hamas is clearly a part of “the gig”.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, this protest is not a Hamas gig.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not sure you understand the terms and definitions you use. With the vast majority of those retired from the gee-had being Hamas flunkies, Hamas is clearly a part of “the gig”.
Click to expand...

Hamas entered later to give support.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, this protest is not a Hamas gig.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not sure you understand the terms and definitions you use. With the vast majority of those retired from the gee-had being Hamas flunkies, Hamas is clearly a part of “the gig”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas entered later to give support.
Click to expand...



Thank You for admitting it's a Hamas gig


----------



## Hollie

I don’t believe the Islamic terrorists really understand the kind of mayhem that the IDF could unleash if they decide that enough is enough. 

At some point, (probably like now), I have to think that Israel needs to respond with a firm message that the Islamist gee-had has run its course.  








*Palestinian Terrorists Place Bomb on Border Fence, IDF Strikes Back*

May 27, 2018

Palestinian Terrorists Place Bomb on Border Fence, IDF Strikes Back


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, this protest is not a Hamas gig.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not sure you understand the terms and definitions you use. With the vast majority of those retired from the gee-had being Hamas flunkies, Hamas is clearly a part of “the gig”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas entered later to give support.
Click to expand...


Hamas retrogrades were among the first to accept the generous Islamic Terrorist Early Retirement package offered by the IDF in the early days of the failed border gee-had. 

So yes, it was as much a Hamas gig as it was a broader Islamic terrorist gig.


----------



## Hollie

I’m surprised israel has not, until now, taken affirmative steps (such as sniper fire) to deal with the Islamic terrorists.


Israel plane fires warning to deter Gaza balloon, kite attacks

Jerusalem (AFP) - An Israeli aircraft fired a warning shot Saturday to deter a group of Gazans preparing to fly a balloon fitted with explosives over the border, in the first such case, the army said.

"The Israeli army spotted a group of Palestinians preparing balloons equipped with explosive devices to cause fires and serious damage on Israeli territory," it said in a statement.

"In response, an Israeli aircraft fired a warning shot near the group," it said, without elaborating.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hollie said:


> I’m surprised israel has not, until now, taken affirmative steps (such as sniper fire) to deal with the Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> Israel plane fires warning to deter Gaza balloon, kite attacks
> 
> Jerusalem (AFP) - An Israeli aircraft fired a warning shot Saturday to deter a group of Gazans preparing to fly a balloon fitted with explosives over the border, in the first such case, the army said.
> 
> "The Israeli army spotted a group of Palestinians preparing balloons equipped with explosive devices to cause fires and serious damage on Israeli territory," it said in a statement.
> 
> "In response, an Israeli aircraft fired a warning shot near the group," it said, without elaborating.


They will be discussing that very subject tomorrow.  Kite terrorists beware.

Cabinet to discuss Gaza humanitarian crisis Sunday, amid ongoing violence


----------



## rylah

Sixties Fan said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m surprised israel has not, until now, taken affirmative steps (such as sniper fire) to deal with the Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> Israel plane fires warning to deter Gaza balloon, kite attacks
> 
> Jerusalem (AFP) - An Israeli aircraft fired a warning shot Saturday to deter a group of Gazans preparing to fly a balloon fitted with explosives over the border, in the first such case, the army said.
> 
> "The Israeli army spotted a group of Palestinians preparing balloons equipped with explosive devices to cause fires and serious damage on Israeli territory," it said in a statement.
> 
> "In response, an Israeli aircraft fired a warning shot near the group," it said, without elaborating.
> 
> 
> 
> They will be discussing that very subject tomorrow.  Kite terrorists beware.
> 
> Cabinet to discuss Gaza humanitarian crisis Sunday, amid ongoing violence
Click to expand...

_
"He stressed that the Southern Command was prepared for all scenarios, including a large operation within Gaza if necessary. However, he said, the army had recommended to the political echelon to begin a process of easing the economic pressure on Hamas — for example, by allowing workers from Gaza to enter Israel to work.

But he added that no long-term arrangement was possible without the return to Israel of the bodies of IDF soldiers."
_
Gaza Hitler Youth get to enter Israel? Worst idea ever.


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Cabinet to discuss Gaza humanitarian crisis Sunday, amid ongoing violence



Since neither Hamas nor the PA seem willing to address the safety and well-being of the the Gazan people, its time for Israel to step in.  I wonder if these suggestions do not take it far enough.


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m surprised israel has not, until now, taken affirmative steps (such as sniper fire) to deal with the Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> Israel plane fires warning to deter Gaza balloon, kite attacks
> 
> Jerusalem (AFP) - An Israeli aircraft fired a warning shot Saturday to deter a group of Gazans preparing to fly a balloon fitted with explosives over the border, in the first such case, the army said.
> 
> "The Israeli army spotted a group of Palestinians preparing balloons equipped with explosive devices to cause fires and serious damage on Israeli territory," it said in a statement.
> 
> "In response, an Israeli aircraft fired a warning shot near the group," it said, without elaborating.
> 
> 
> 
> They will be discussing that very subject tomorrow.  Kite terrorists beware.
> 
> Cabinet to discuss Gaza humanitarian crisis Sunday, amid ongoing violence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> "He stressed that the Southern Command was prepared for all scenarios, including a large operation within Gaza if necessary. However, he said, the army had recommended to the political echelon to begin a process of easing the economic pressure on Hamas — for example, by allowing workers from Gaza to enter Israel to work.
> 
> But he added that no long-term arrangement was possible without the return to Israel of the bodies of IDF soldiers."
> _
> Gaza Hitler Youth get to enter Israel? Worst idea ever.
Click to expand...


Better for Israel to re-take Gaza than to permit an sort of capitulation on "return", even if it is just for work.  There is a real danger here, I think, for ending up with a hostile, murderous presence in Israel which would be intolerable.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m surprised israel has not, until now, taken affirmative steps (such as sniper fire) to deal with the Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> Israel plane fires warning to deter Gaza balloon, kite attacks
> 
> Jerusalem (AFP) - An Israeli aircraft fired a warning shot Saturday to deter a group of Gazans preparing to fly a balloon fitted with explosives over the border, in the first such case, the army said.
> 
> "The Israeli army spotted a group of Palestinians preparing balloons equipped with explosive devices to cause fires and serious damage on Israeli territory," it said in a statement.
> 
> "In response, an Israeli aircraft fired a warning shot near the group," it said, without elaborating.
> 
> 
> 
> They will be discussing that very subject tomorrow.  Kite terrorists beware.
> 
> Cabinet to discuss Gaza humanitarian crisis Sunday, amid ongoing violence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> "He stressed that the Southern Command was prepared for all scenarios, including a large operation within Gaza if necessary. However, he said, the army had recommended to the political echelon to begin a process of easing the economic pressure on Hamas — for example, by allowing workers from Gaza to enter Israel to work.
> 
> But he added that no long-term arrangement was possible without the return to Israel of the bodies of IDF soldiers."
> _
> Gaza Hitler Youth get to enter Israel? Worst idea ever.
Click to expand...

I don't think pecking around the edges will address the root of the problem.

The Palestinians really want to be working in their own place.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m surprised israel has not, until now, taken affirmative steps (such as sniper fire) to deal with the Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> Israel plane fires warning to deter Gaza balloon, kite attacks
> 
> Jerusalem (AFP) - An Israeli aircraft fired a warning shot Saturday to deter a group of Gazans preparing to fly a balloon fitted with explosives over the border, in the first such case, the army said.
> 
> "The Israeli army spotted a group of Palestinians preparing balloons equipped with explosive devices to cause fires and serious damage on Israeli territory," it said in a statement.
> 
> "In response, an Israeli aircraft fired a warning shot near the group," it said, without elaborating.
> 
> 
> 
> They will be discussing that very subject tomorrow.  Kite terrorists beware.
> 
> Cabinet to discuss Gaza humanitarian crisis Sunday, amid ongoing violence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> "He stressed that the Southern Command was prepared for all scenarios, including a large operation within Gaza if necessary. However, he said, the army had recommended to the political echelon to begin a process of easing the economic pressure on Hamas — for example, by allowing workers from Gaza to enter Israel to work.
> 
> But he added that no long-term arrangement was possible without the return to Israel of the bodies of IDF soldiers."
> _
> Gaza Hitler Youth get to enter Israel? Worst idea ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't think pecking around the edges will address the root of the problem.
> 
> The Palestinians really want to be working in their own place.
Click to expand...


No Gazan should be allowed in. Let them work out relations with Egypt.
For me this is not even a question of negotiations, those ended with the swastika on the flag.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shusha said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m surprised israel has not, until now, taken affirmative steps (such as sniper fire) to deal with the Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> Israel plane fires warning to deter Gaza balloon, kite attacks
> 
> Jerusalem (AFP) - An Israeli aircraft fired a warning shot Saturday to deter a group of Gazans preparing to fly a balloon fitted with explosives over the border, in the first such case, the army said.
> 
> "The Israeli army spotted a group of Palestinians preparing balloons equipped with explosive devices to cause fires and serious damage on Israeli territory," it said in a statement.
> 
> "In response, an Israeli aircraft fired a warning shot near the group," it said, without elaborating.
> 
> 
> 
> They will be discussing that very subject tomorrow.  Kite terrorists beware.
> 
> Cabinet to discuss Gaza humanitarian crisis Sunday, amid ongoing violence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> "He stressed that the Southern Command was prepared for all scenarios, including a large operation within Gaza if necessary. However, he said, the army had recommended to the political echelon to begin a process of easing the economic pressure on Hamas — for example, by allowing workers from Gaza to enter Israel to work.
> 
> But he added that no long-term arrangement was possible without the return to Israel of the bodies of IDF soldiers."
> _
> Gaza Hitler Youth get to enter Israel? Worst idea ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Better for Israel to re-take Gaza than to permit an sort of capitulation on "return", even if it is just for work.  There is a real danger here, I think, for ending up with a hostile, murderous presence in Israel which would be intolerable.
Click to expand...

Israel already gets some of the murderers from Judea and Samaria into Israel for work.  It pays the price for giving some of them work.


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m surprised israel has not, until now, taken affirmative steps (such as sniper fire) to deal with the Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> Israel plane fires warning to deter Gaza balloon, kite attacks
> 
> Jerusalem (AFP) - An Israeli aircraft fired a warning shot Saturday to deter a group of Gazans preparing to fly a balloon fitted with explosives over the border, in the first such case, the army said.
> 
> "The Israeli army spotted a group of Palestinians preparing balloons equipped with explosive devices to cause fires and serious damage on Israeli territory," it said in a statement.
> 
> "In response, an Israeli aircraft fired a warning shot near the group," it said, without elaborating.
> 
> 
> 
> They will be discussing that very subject tomorrow.  Kite terrorists beware.
> 
> Cabinet to discuss Gaza humanitarian crisis Sunday, amid ongoing violence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> "He stressed that the Southern Command was prepared for all scenarios, including a large operation within Gaza if necessary. However, he said, the army had recommended to the political echelon to begin a process of easing the economic pressure on Hamas — for example, by allowing workers from Gaza to enter Israel to work.
> 
> But he added that no long-term arrangement was possible without the return to Israel of the bodies of IDF soldiers."
> _
> Gaza Hitler Youth get to enter Israel? Worst idea ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Better for Israel to re-take Gaza than to permit an sort of capitulation on "return", even if it is just for work.  There is a real danger here, I think, for ending up with a hostile, murderous presence in Israel which would be intolerable.
Click to expand...



Agree on the dangers, You've put it in polite terms.
I have reservations about "re-taking". In my view it's either resettlement or total sealing and disconnection of everything that moves from and to Israel, no veggies from Gaza on Israeli shelves, no furniture, no electricity and no jobs. This is ridiculous that we even do this in the first place.

The language has to change.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m surprised israel has not, until now, taken affirmative steps (such as sniper fire) to deal with the Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> Israel plane fires warning to deter Gaza balloon, kite attacks
> 
> Jerusalem (AFP) - An Israeli aircraft fired a warning shot Saturday to deter a group of Gazans preparing to fly a balloon fitted with explosives over the border, in the first such case, the army said.
> 
> "The Israeli army spotted a group of Palestinians preparing balloons equipped with explosive devices to cause fires and serious damage on Israeli territory," it said in a statement.
> 
> "In response, an Israeli aircraft fired a warning shot near the group," it said, without elaborating.
> 
> 
> 
> They will be discussing that very subject tomorrow.  Kite terrorists beware.
> 
> Cabinet to discuss Gaza humanitarian crisis Sunday, amid ongoing violence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> "He stressed that the Southern Command was prepared for all scenarios, including a large operation within Gaza if necessary. However, he said, the army had recommended to the political echelon to begin a process of easing the economic pressure on Hamas — for example, by allowing workers from Gaza to enter Israel to work.
> 
> But he added that no long-term arrangement was possible without the return to Israel of the bodies of IDF soldiers."
> _
> Gaza Hitler Youth get to enter Israel? Worst idea ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't think pecking around the edges will address the root of the problem.
> 
> The Palestinians really want to be working in their own place.
Click to expand...


Yes. The Hamas Charter identifies that very _Judenrein_ location.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m surprised israel has not, until now, taken affirmative steps (such as sniper fire) to deal with the Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> Israel plane fires warning to deter Gaza balloon, kite attacks
> 
> Jerusalem (AFP) - An Israeli aircraft fired a warning shot Saturday to deter a group of Gazans preparing to fly a balloon fitted with explosives over the border, in the first such case, the army said.
> 
> "The Israeli army spotted a group of Palestinians preparing balloons equipped with explosive devices to cause fires and serious damage on Israeli territory," it said in a statement.
> 
> "In response, an Israeli aircraft fired a warning shot near the group," it said, without elaborating.
> 
> 
> 
> They will be discussing that very subject tomorrow.  Kite terrorists beware.
> 
> Cabinet to discuss Gaza humanitarian crisis Sunday, amid ongoing violence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> "He stressed that the Southern Command was prepared for all scenarios, including a large operation within Gaza if necessary. However, he said, the army had recommended to the political echelon to begin a process of easing the economic pressure on Hamas — for example, by allowing workers from Gaza to enter Israel to work.
> 
> But he added that no long-term arrangement was possible without the return to Israel of the bodies of IDF soldiers."
> _
> Gaza Hitler Youth get to enter Israel? Worst idea ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't think pecking around the edges will address the root of the problem.
> 
> The Palestinians really want to be working in their own place.
Click to expand...


The above is really quite funny. Hamas is offering a 10 year “ truce” if Israel would return to the 67 Borders.


----------



## Sixties Fan

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m surprised israel has not, until now, taken affirmative steps (such as sniper fire) to deal with the Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> Israel plane fires warning to deter Gaza balloon, kite attacks
> 
> Jerusalem (AFP) - An Israeli aircraft fired a warning shot Saturday to deter a group of Gazans preparing to fly a balloon fitted with explosives over the border, in the first such case, the army said.
> 
> "The Israeli army spotted a group of Palestinians preparing balloons equipped with explosive devices to cause fires and serious damage on Israeli territory," it said in a statement.
> 
> "In response, an Israeli aircraft fired a warning shot near the group," it said, without elaborating.
> 
> 
> 
> They will be discussing that very subject tomorrow.  Kite terrorists beware.
> 
> Cabinet to discuss Gaza humanitarian crisis Sunday, amid ongoing violence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> "He stressed that the Southern Command was prepared for all scenarios, including a large operation within Gaza if necessary. However, he said, the army had recommended to the political echelon to begin a process of easing the economic pressure on Hamas — for example, by allowing workers from Gaza to enter Israel to work.
> 
> But he added that no long-term arrangement was possible without the return to Israel of the bodies of IDF soldiers."
> _
> Gaza Hitler Youth get to enter Israel? Worst idea ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't think pecking around the edges will address the root of the problem.
> 
> The Palestinians really want to be working in their own place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The above is really quite funny. Hamas is offering a 10 year “ truce” if Israel would return to the 67 Borders.
Click to expand...

A Hudna by any other name.  As majestic as Mohammad's offer to the Jewish Kaybar tribe, is it not?

We know what happened there


----------



## Sixties Fan

There are two important factors that the international community needs to notice regarding the flaming kites that the Palestinians are sending to Israel from the Gaza Strip. First: those who are launching the kites are making it clear that their ultimate goal is to kill as many Jews as possible and bring about the obliteration of Israel. Second: the Palestinians see all Jews living in Israel as “settlers.”

The reports in various Palestinian media outlets on the fires in Israel refer to Israeli towns as “settlements.” Even media outlets that are affiliated with the “moderate” Palestinian Authority, which has ostensibly recognized Israel’s right to exist, are referring to the Israeli communities near the border with the Gaza Strip as “settlements.” Even two Israeli agricultural communities, such as Sderot, which have been targeted by the flaming kites, are described as “settlements.”

What does this show? The Palestinians do not distinguish between a Jew living in the West Bank and a Jew living in Israel proper. For the Palestinians, all Jews are “settlers.” It does not matter whether they live in a settlement in the West Bank, or in Tel Aviv, Haifa or Jerusalem. For the Palestinians, there is no difference between a Jewish settlement in the West Bank and any city in Israel, including Tel Aviv.

(full article online)

Palestinians: “Burn the Jews!”


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian arsonists have made their motives clear. As the Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA) has detailed, many of the kites were embroidered with Nazi swastikas, with calls to “burn the Jews” accompanying their launching.

Although the Gazans have claimed not to be connected to Hamas, it’s clear that the terrorism is organized, with the activation of so-called “kite units” similar to Hamas’s rocket and mortar groups. It’s inconceivable that Hamas, which exerts tightfisted control over Gaza’s population, has not sanctioned and supported the attacks. For its part, the Palestinian media has taken to calling the units mujahedeen—holy warriors fighting against non-Muslim “infidels.”

Yet despite the damage and the novelty of these attacks, Western news outlets have largely reacted with a shrug. As of this writing, The Washington Post, USA Today and The Baltimore Sun, among others, have failed to file their own reports detailing the rise of “kite terrorism.”

(full article online)

The media’s blowing smoke on Palestinian kite terrorism


----------



## Sixties Fan

How to defeat Hamas? Deprive Hamas members of their prime source of income, which is UNRWA, the largest employer of Hamas in Gaza. 

The people who organize and participate in current riots on the Gaza fences, are UNRWA employees - 20,000 proud members of Hamas who control the UNRWA workers association and the UNRWA teachers association since 1999, all of whom incite for a mass invasion of Israel under the slogan of the "right of return by force of arms"

The "return" they refer to is to villages that Arabs left  three generations ago, most expecting to return after the Arab armies destroyed the fledgling Jewish state, between 1948 and 1953, in the wake of the Israel War of Independence - in which the Arabs attacked Israel. 

UNRWA has kept 5 million *descendants* of Arab refugees in "temporary" conditions, while Hamas ads fuel to the fire.. 

What can be done to douse the flames of Hamas?

Donor nations to UNRWA can demand the cut off of their paying UNRWA salaries, which would transform Hamas into beggars who would starve for lack of cash.

US, Canada, the UK and Australia all have tough laws on the books which clearly state that  their respective nations must condition aid to UNRWA with a strict requirement that, in order to receive aid, no member of an FTO, a  Foreign Terrorist Organization, can receive a salary.

Indeed, Canada cut off its aid to the general fund of UNRWA in 2009 after Hamas gained control of the UNRWA workers union and UNRWA teachers association, as documented in a study that our agency  published that was commissioned by the European Parliament.






Demand that UNRWA indeed dismiss any and all Hamas members on staff. 





Canada renewed funding of the UNRWA general fund in 2016, after UNRWA lied to Ottawa that it no longer employs members of Hamas..

Since no Hamas members  were removed from the staff of UNRWA, this would be an  opportune time for donor nations to demand  that UNRWA conduct a review of its employees for terror connections.

The next logical step is to demand that UNRWA indeed dismiss any and all Hamas members on staff. 

(full article online)

How to defeat Hamas without firing a shot


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> There are two important factors that the international community needs to notice regarding the flaming kites that the Palestinians are sending to Israel from the Gaza Strip. First: those who are launching the kites are making it clear that their ultimate goal is to kill as many Jews as possible and bring about the obliteration of Israel. Second: the Palestinians see all Jews living in Israel as “settlers.”
> 
> The reports in various Palestinian media outlets on the fires in Israel refer to Israeli towns as “settlements.” Even media outlets that are affiliated with the “moderate” Palestinian Authority, which has ostensibly recognized Israel’s right to exist, are referring to the Israeli communities near the border with the Gaza Strip as “settlements.” Even two Israeli agricultural communities, such as Sderot, which have been targeted by the flaming kites, are described as “settlements.”
> 
> What does this show? The Palestinians do not distinguish between a Jew living in the West Bank and a Jew living in Israel proper. For the Palestinians, all Jews are “settlers.” It does not matter whether they live in a settlement in the West Bank, or in Tel Aviv, Haifa or Jerusalem. For the Palestinians, there is no difference between a Jewish settlement in the West Bank and any city in Israel, including Tel Aviv.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians: “Burn the Jews!”





Sixties Fan said:


> Even two Israeli agricultural communities, such as Sderot, which have been targeted by the flaming kites, are described as “settlements.”


*Najd* (Arabic: نجد‎) was a Palestinian Arab village, located 14 kilometers (8.7 mi) northeast of Gaza City. During the British Mandate in Palestine, children from Najd attended school in the nearby village of Simsim. On 13 May 1948, Najd was occupied by the Negev Brigade as part of Operation Barak, and the villagers were expelled[7] and fled to Gaza.

Following the war the area was incorporated into the State of Israel and the city of Sderot was founded in 1951 on village land, a few miles to the south of the village site,[15] while Or HaNer was founded in 1957 also on village land, to the northeast.[15]

Najd, Gaza - Wikipedia


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

This is Razan Najjar, who came to the Gaza border last week to "serve as a medic" & unfortunately lost her life there.

But, do medics participate in riots & say they are human shields for terrorists?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Sderot Children to Re-Learn Enjoyment of Happy Kites, Instead of Gaza Terror Kites


----------



## Sixties Fan

Rafael Launches Attack Drone As Hamas Israeli Forest Fires Surpass 2014 Arson Attacks


----------



## Sixties Fan

Erakat wasted little time in the interview, responding to the first question by insisting “there were no clashes between Palestinians and Israelis” along the Gaza Strip’s border with Israel that day. She continued:

… Palestinians who are gathering in order to protest their dispossession and removal and demanding their right to return as refugees are basically not confronted by any Israeli civilians, not posing harm to any Israeli civilians, to any military installations, or to any Israeli soldiers, so there are no clashes. This was the lethal use of force against non-violent protesters who did not pose a threat to Israel.

Although Erakat’s claims went unchallenged, the interviewer should have known better. Her own network reported that evening that, as part of the demonstrations dubbed the Great March of Return, Palestinians were “setting fires and throwing firebombs and stones across the border into Israel.”

And that’s not all. Some of the “non-violent protesters” sent flaming kites across the border to set fire to Israeli agricultural fields. Some attempted to damage and breach the fence separating the Hamas-ruled Strip from Israel. Others planted explosives along the border fence. And yet others were gunmen who opened fire on Israeli soldiers. It is not for lack of trying, and certainly not for lack of “clashes,” that only one Israeli soldier was wounded that day.

The next question produced an even more incredible response:

*CBS:* You do not believe then that Hamas is inciting these protesters?

*Erakat: *It has been made very clear that this is a gathering of Palestinian civil society who have organized themselves without any direction from Hamas and in fact in contravention to them.

Hamas is not just Israel’s nightmare, Palestinians don’t want them either.   

Hamas has nothing to do with the protests, riots, and violence, we’re told. So why has the _New York Times_ repeatedly asserted that the group “organized the protests”? And why have the Associated Press and Reuters likewise reported that the border demonstrations and riots are “organized by Hamas”?

(full article online)

Noura Erakat Rewrites Hamas and Rebrands “Return” | CAMERA


----------



## Sixties Fan

In most cases, the demonstrators were not stopped by Israel, but by the police and armies of the host countries and territories - often violently.

On May 15, the Lebanese army fired at the demonstrators, killing 10 of them. 

The Egyptian army stopped any buses with demonstrators before they could approach the border, and in Jordan dozens were injured as the Jordanian security forces stopped the demonstrators from approaching the border with Israel.

If these were peaceful protests, then why would the host countries be willing to use violence to stop its own citizens from approaching Israeli territory?

The reason is that everyone knows that crossing a border without permission is an act of war, not an act of protest. The countries wanted to avoid the possibility of starting a war with Israel (with the exception of Syria, which facilitated the demonstrations in order to distract the world from the beginnings of the Syrian uprising.)

During the June 5 demonstrations, even Hamas stopped the protesters from approaching the Gaza border by putting up checkpoints and arresting those who tried to bypass them.

(full article online)

Of course storming the border with Israel is an act of war. Just ask Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon - and Hamas ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Fatah spokesman says withholding money to terrorists violates all international law and conventions ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Report: Gaza Hospitals Provide Medical Helium for Firebomb Terror Balloons


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Erakat wasted little time in the interview, responding to the first question by insisting “there were no clashes between Palestinians and Israelis” along the Gaza Strip’s border with Israel that day. She continued:
> 
> … Palestinians who are gathering in order to protest their dispossession and removal and demanding their right to return as refugees are basically not confronted by any Israeli civilians, not posing harm to any Israeli civilians, to any military installations, or to any Israeli soldiers, so there are no clashes. This was the lethal use of force against non-violent protesters who did not pose a threat to Israel.
> 
> Although Erakat’s claims went unchallenged, the interviewer should have known better. Her own network reported that evening that, as part of the demonstrations dubbed the Great March of Return, Palestinians were “setting fires and throwing firebombs and stones across the border into Israel.”
> 
> And that’s not all. Some of the “non-violent protesters” sent flaming kites across the border to set fire to Israeli agricultural fields. Some attempted to damage and breach the fence separating the Hamas-ruled Strip from Israel. Others planted explosives along the border fence. And yet others were gunmen who opened fire on Israeli soldiers. It is not for lack of trying, and certainly not for lack of “clashes,” that only one Israeli soldier was wounded that day.
> 
> The next question produced an even more incredible response:
> 
> *CBS:* You do not believe then that Hamas is inciting these protesters?
> 
> *Erakat: *It has been made very clear that this is a gathering of Palestinian civil society who have organized themselves without any direction from Hamas and in fact in contravention to them.
> 
> Hamas is not just Israel’s nightmare, Palestinians don’t want them either.
> 
> Hamas has nothing to do with the protests, riots, and violence, we’re told. So why has the _New York Times_ repeatedly asserted that the group “organized the protests”? And why have the Associated Press and Reuters likewise reported that the border demonstrations and riots are “organized by Hamas”?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Noura Erakat Rewrites Hamas and Rebrands “Return” | CAMERA


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

You can see from the photos that the Israeli Army released that it was quite a large axe. We can assume he didn’t pick it up—he didn’t “arm” himself—until shortly before he met his terrorist buddy and set out for the border with Israel.

In other words, it’s a reasonable calculation that for the majority of the day, he was “unarmed.” By the logic of the journalists who cover Israel, then, they should report that that the axe-wielder was another “mostly unarmed” civilian, a “protester” or “demonstrator” who had harmed nobody.

I also expect journalists to try to cast doubt on whether he was even carrying the axe. They will probably write that the Israelis “claimed” or “alleged” he was carrying it, but there’s no proof. After all, since when do Palestinian terrorists carry axes?

I would bet that the residents of nearby Kibbutz Nirim, who were right in the path of the axe terrorist, have some sense of what lay in store for them if the Israeli soldiers had not shot him.

I doubt anybody at the kibbutz has forgotten about the terrorists who used an axe to butcher the five rabbis in the Har Nof (Jerusalem) synagogue, or Michael Nadler, the young man from Miami Beach whom axe-wielding terrorists butchered on the Golan Heights. They haven’t forgotten the Bat Ayin axe attack or the Ma’ale Adumim axe attack, the axe attacks in Afula and in the Old City of Jerusalem, and all the rest, far too numerous to list here.

But the journalists won’t mention any of that in their articles. Not because they don’t believe Palestinian terrorists have used axes. But because hiding that fact advances the Palestinian agenda. Most journalists want to see Israel forced to accept the creation of a Palestinian state along Israel’s nine-miles-wide border.

Anything that would cast doubt on the Palestinians’ nature or intentions could strengthen opposition to creating such a state.

And that’s why the media pretend that Palestinian terrorists are “mostly unarmed”—even when they are armed with the same deadly weapons that have been used by so many terrorists before them.

(full article online)

But he was mostly unarmed


----------



## Sixties Fan

Of course, not all Gazans and certainly not all children follow Hamas’ path.  But Hamas is so hell-bent on Israel’s extinction that it deprives children of innocent play and weaponizes what should be their toys to serve further destruction.

The kites are dually symbolic not solely of Hamas’ imparted ideology on their kids, but of Hamas’ irresponsible handling and appropriation of international aid to Gaza. Donated by Japan specifically for the impoverished children of Gaza,  Hamas and Hamas-followers weaponized the toys to launch a barrage of flying incendiary devices against Israel.

While the kites were a relatively mundane gift from Japan, they are indicative of the much larger and more substantial trend of misappropriation of funds by Hamas.

“Hamas allocates 55% of its budget to fund its military needs and its share in the rehabilitation of Gaza is less than 5% of the total investment. In addition to its disproportionately large military budget, Hamas also diverts aid money to fund its military ventures,” per the IDF. This is in spite of “80% (of the Gaza population) are dependent on international aid.”

According to Major General Yoav Mordechai, "The egotistical Hamas terror organization has robbed funds that are meant for the needy of Gaza from international organizations. Hamas prospers at the expense of the residents of the Strip and uses donations meant for them to finance terror. How long will the world and the Gazan people ignore this?”

And his posed question is certainly valid, considering the perpetual allocation of funds by Hamas towards arms accumulation and expanding their frightening military capabilities.

(full article online)

The Metaphoric Kite (Noah Phillips) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Sixties Fan said:


> Erakat wasted little time in the interview, responding to the first question by insisting “there were no clashes between Palestinians and Israelis” along the Gaza Strip’s border with Israel that day. She continued:
> 
> … Palestinians who are gathering in order to protest their dispossession and removal and demanding their right to return as refugees are basically not confronted by any Israeli civilians, not posing harm to any Israeli civilians, to any military installations, or to any Israeli soldiers, so there are no clashes. This was the lethal use of force against non-violent protesters who did not pose a threat to Israel.
> 
> Although Erakat’s claims went unchallenged, the interviewer should have known better. Her own network reported that evening that, as part of the demonstrations dubbed the Great March of Return, Palestinians were “setting fires and throwing firebombs and stones across the border into Israel.”
> 
> And that’s not all. Some of the “non-violent protesters” sent flaming kites across the border to set fire to Israeli agricultural fields. Some attempted to damage and breach the fence separating the Hamas-ruled Strip from Israel. Others planted explosives along the border fence. And yet others were gunmen who opened fire on Israeli soldiers. It is not for lack of trying, and certainly not for lack of “clashes,” that only one Israeli soldier was wounded that day.
> 
> The next question produced an even more incredible response:
> 
> *CBS:* You do not believe then that Hamas is inciting these protesters?
> 
> *Erakat: *It has been made very clear that this is a gathering of Palestinian civil society who have organized themselves without any direction from Hamas and in fact in contravention to them.
> 
> Hamas is not just Israel’s nightmare, Palestinians don’t want them either.
> 
> Hamas has nothing to do with the protests, riots, and violence, we’re told. So why has the _New York Times_ repeatedly asserted that the group “organized the protests”? And why have the Associated Press and Reuters likewise reported that the border demonstrations and riots are “organized by Hamas”?
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Noura Erakat Rewrites Hamas and Rebrands “Return” | CAMERA


 
Let them demand “ Right of Return” all they want  This alone will make them reject ANY Palestinian State even if Israel agreed to “ 67 Borders”


----------



## Sixties Fan

I am pretty sure this is _not_ what Martin Luther King Jr had in mind.





I’m also not sure they want to be quoting Martin Luther King JR.

(full article online)

Palestinians Use MLK JR Quote, Miss Point Entirely


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Sixties Fan said:


> I am pretty sure this is _not_ what Martin Luther King Jr had in mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I’m also not sure they want to be quoting Martin Luther King JR.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Palestinians Use MLK JR Quote, Miss Point Entirely



This is the Palestinian Version of “ peace”


----------



## Sixties Fan

The United Nations Population Fund has written a report about the dangers to Gaza women as a result of the "Great Return March."

The report proves that Palestinian society is pretty sick.

The report identifies four groups of Gaza women who are negatively impacted by the riots.

 Mothers with injured children  reported increased gender-based violence, especially psychological/emotional violence as mothers were often blamed by their husbands and other family members for ‘allowing’ their children to participate. So - Gaza women can be beaten for allowing their children to go to a march, or pretty much anything else.

(full article online)

UN says "Great Return March" increases abuse of women in Gaza ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ At this rate, the PA will go bankrupt.......Just kidding......The donors will only give more and more.......destroying Israel is a noble cause ]

Fire Terror from Gaza Deals Massive Blow to Israeli Honey Industry


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ At this rate, the PA will go bankrupt.......Just kidding......The donors will only give more and more.......destroying Israel is a noble cause ]
> 
> Fire Terror from Gaza Deals Massive Blow to Israeli Honey Industry


Israel really needs to stop its war.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ At this rate, the PA will go bankrupt.......Just kidding......The donors will only give more and more.......destroying Israel is a noble cause ]
> 
> Fire Terror from Gaza Deals Massive Blow to Israeli Honey Industry
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really needs to stop its war.
Click to expand...

I would just have Israel bomb the hell out of Gaza, as it was done by the allies with Berlin during WWII.

But for now, this will have to do:

IDF to reduce supply of helium to Gaza Strip


----------



## Sixties Fan

BBC News portrays Iranian links to Gaza riots as ‘allegation’


----------



## rylah




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ At this rate, the PA will go bankrupt.......Just kidding......The donors will only give more and more.......destroying Israel is a noble cause ]
> 
> Fire Terror from Gaza Deals Massive Blow to Israeli Honey Industry
> 
> 
> 
> Israel really needs to stop its war.
Click to expand...


I can only assume you're not paying attention. It's your islamic terrorist heroes who are the aggressors, perpetrating acts of war and attacking israelis with threats to "rip their hearts out".

Why would you display your ignorance in such a profound way on a public discussion board?


----------



## Hollie

*IDF drone knocks out 40 Palestinian terror kites*
 May 13, 2018

IDF drone knocks out 40 Palestinian terror kites







Palestinian rioters fly an arson terror kite at the Gaza border. (AP Photo/ Khalil Hamra)



 30 mm rounds from an attack helicopter will also take out the knucklehead kite flyers, too.

No more gee-had.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel confirms warning shot fired at incendiary balloon fliers in Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians threaten to fly 5,000 fire kites into Israel tomorrow


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Palestinians threaten to fly 5,000 fire kites into Israel tomorrow


 That should keep those fuckers on their toes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

So, what has Israel done to defuse this situation?


----------



## Slyhunter

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians threaten to fly 5,000 fire kites into Israel tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> That should keep those fuckers on their toes.
Click to expand...

So there should be 5,000 deaths tomorrow then.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> So, what has Israel done to defuse this situation?



Should they rip some of their own hearts out?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians threaten to fly 5,000 fire kites into Israel tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> That should keep those fuckers on their toes.
Click to expand...


It’s all fun and games until the IDF decides that Hellfire missiles and helicopter gunships are the appropriate response. 

Maybe something like this:

Palestinians prep 5,000 kite bombs to mark end of Ramadan in Gaza

“The IDF struck an infrastructure near the area where a squad had previously been preparing Molotov cocktails in the southern Gaza Strip,” read the statement. “The IDF considers the use of incendiary kites and balloons to be severe, and will act to prevent their use.”

The announcement came shortly after Palestinians reported that a drone launched a missile at people near the border fence who were flying balloons with Molotov cocktails attached, and unconfirmed reports by Israeli media that Palestinians planned to launch 5,000 incendiary balloons and kites toward Israel from the Hamas-run Strip to mark Eid al-Fitr on Thursday night.




Let’s remember these acts of Islamic terrorism are planned “in celebration” of the end of your holy month of Ramadan. That’s some special holy month of death, destruction and dying you retrogrades share.

So yeah, let’s all have a good laugh at the soon-to-be-dead Ramadan’a ding dongers and your anticipated whining and moaning about how peaceful Islamic terrorists were retired early from life. 

Maybe you cowards can push a few more female “medics” into the fray for propaganda purposes.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> So, what has Israel done to defuse this situation?



How does anyone defuse the pathology of a 7th century Death Cult?

Why don’t you islamic retrogrades defuse the war you started?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians threaten to fly 5,000 fire kites into Israel tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> That should keep those fuckers on their toes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It’s all fun and games until the IDF decides that Hellfire missiles and helicopter gunships are the appropriate response.
> 
> Maybe something like this:
> 
> Palestinians prep 5,000 kite bombs to mark end of Ramadan in Gaza
> 
> “The IDF struck an infrastructure near the area where a squad had previously been preparing Molotov cocktails in the southern Gaza Strip,” read the statement. “The IDF considers the use of incendiary kites and balloons to be severe, and will act to prevent their use.”
> 
> The announcement came shortly after Palestinians reported that a drone launched a missile at people near the border fence who were flying balloons with Molotov cocktails attached, and unconfirmed reports by Israeli media that Palestinians planned to launch 5,000 incendiary balloons and kites toward Israel from the Hamas-run Strip to mark Eid al-Fitr on Thursday night.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let’s remember these acts of Islamic terrorism are planned “in celebration” of the end of your holy month of Ramadan. That’s some special holy month of death, destruction and dying you retrogrades share.
> 
> So yeah, let’s all have a good laugh at the soon-to-be-dead Ramadan’a ding dongers and your anticipated whining and moaning about how peaceful Islamic terrorists were retired early from life.
> 
> Maybe you cowards can push a few more female “medics” into the fray for propaganda purposes.
Click to expand...

Killing is Israel's response to everything. Anything else is beyond their mental capacity.


----------



## Slyhunter

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians threaten to fly 5,000 fire kites into Israel tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> That should keep those fuckers on their toes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It’s all fun and games until the IDF decides that Hellfire missiles and helicopter gunships are the appropriate response.
> 
> Maybe something like this:
> 
> Palestinians prep 5,000 kite bombs to mark end of Ramadan in Gaza
> 
> “The IDF struck an infrastructure near the area where a squad had previously been preparing Molotov cocktails in the southern Gaza Strip,” read the statement. “The IDF considers the use of incendiary kites and balloons to be severe, and will act to prevent their use.”
> 
> The announcement came shortly after Palestinians reported that a drone launched a missile at people near the border fence who were flying balloons with Molotov cocktails attached, and unconfirmed reports by Israeli media that Palestinians planned to launch 5,000 incendiary balloons and kites toward Israel from the Hamas-run Strip to mark Eid al-Fitr on Thursday night.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let’s remember these acts of Islamic terrorism are planned “in celebration” of the end of your holy month of Ramadan. That’s some special holy month of death, destruction and dying you retrogrades share.
> 
> So yeah, let’s all have a good laugh at the soon-to-be-dead Ramadan’a ding dongers and your anticipated whining and moaning about how peaceful Islamic terrorists were retired early from life.
> 
> Maybe you cowards can push a few more female “medics” into the fray for propaganda purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Killing is Israel's response to everything. Anything else is beyond their mental capacity.
Click to expand...

You think they should let the terrorists in and turn the other cheek eh?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians threaten to fly 5,000 fire kites into Israel tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> That should keep those fuckers on their toes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It’s all fun and games until the IDF decides that Hellfire missiles and helicopter gunships are the appropriate response.
> 
> Maybe something like this:
> 
> Palestinians prep 5,000 kite bombs to mark end of Ramadan in Gaza
> 
> “The IDF struck an infrastructure near the area where a squad had previously been preparing Molotov cocktails in the southern Gaza Strip,” read the statement. “The IDF considers the use of incendiary kites and balloons to be severe, and will act to prevent their use.”
> 
> The announcement came shortly after Palestinians reported that a drone launched a missile at people near the border fence who were flying balloons with Molotov cocktails attached, and unconfirmed reports by Israeli media that Palestinians planned to launch 5,000 incendiary balloons and kites toward Israel from the Hamas-run Strip to mark Eid al-Fitr on Thursday night.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let’s remember these acts of Islamic terrorism are planned “in celebration” of the end of your holy month of Ramadan. That’s some special holy month of death, destruction and dying you retrogrades share.
> 
> So yeah, let’s all have a good laugh at the soon-to-be-dead Ramadan’a ding dongers and your anticipated whining and moaning about how peaceful Islamic terrorists were retired early from life.
> 
> Maybe you cowards can push a few more female “medics” into the fray for propaganda purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Killing is Israel's response to everything. Anything else is beyond their mental capacity.
Click to expand...


Your silly schoolboy response was expected. 

It’s really comical how you cowards behind your keyboards are so quick to urge others toward riots, mayhem and attacks on Israelis which are intended to draw a response.


----------



## evenflow1969

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians threaten to fly 5,000 fire kites into Israel tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> That should keep those fuckers on their toes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It’s all fun and games until the IDF decides that Hellfire missiles and helicopter gunships are the appropriate response.
> 
> Maybe something like this:
> 
> Palestinians prep 5,000 kite bombs to mark end of Ramadan in Gaza
> 
> “The IDF struck an infrastructure near the area where a squad had previously been preparing Molotov cocktails in the southern Gaza Strip,” read the statement. “The IDF considers the use of incendiary kites and balloons to be severe, and will act to prevent their use.”
> 
> The announcement came shortly after Palestinians reported that a drone launched a missile at people near the border fence who were flying balloons with Molotov cocktails attached, and unconfirmed reports by Israeli media that Palestinians planned to launch 5,000 incendiary balloons and kites toward Israel from the Hamas-run Strip to mark Eid al-Fitr on Thursday night.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let’s remember these acts of Islamic terrorism are planned “in celebration” of the end of your holy month of Ramadan. That’s some special holy month of death, destruction and dying you retrogrades share.
> 
> So yeah, let’s all have a good laugh at the soon-to-be-dead Ramadan’a ding dongers and your anticipated whining and moaning about how peaceful Islamic terrorists were retired early from life.
> 
> Maybe you cowards can push a few more female “medics” into the fray for propaganda purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Killing is Israel's response to everything. Anything else is beyond their mental capacity.
Click to expand...

Ya, when you mass at a border and start sending bombs into counties. You need to count your self lucky that that country does not kill you all. First off you can not mass at a border and think nothing is going to happen add bombs to it and I do not understand why Isreal does not light them up good. You come to my property with bombs and I wil put a bullet right in your head with out losing a wink of sleep!


----------



## Sixties Fan

An incendiary balloon launched from the Gaza Strip landed in a populated area inside of Israeli territory Friday.

The balloon, which had the words “I Love You”, was attached to an incendiary device.

After being launched from the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip, the balloon bomb landed in the Shaar Hanegev Regional Council in the western Negev.

After authorities were notified of the bomb’s location, police sappers were dispatched to the scene and neutralized the device.

Thousands of Arab rioters amassed along the Israel-Gaza border Friday, in anticipation of yet another round of clashes with Israeli security forces in an attempt to breach the security fence separating Israel from the Strip.

Earlier on Friday, a Gaza man was captured after he attempted to infiltrate across the border into Israeli territory.

The man was reportedly not armed at the time of his capture.

(full article online)

Gaza 'balloon bomb' lands near Israeli town


----------



## Sixties Fan

The aircraft also fired a nearby vehicle suspected of being used by the terrorists.

“A short while ago, the IDF identified a group of Palestinians preparing explosive balloons to be sent from the southern Gaza Strip into Israel,” the IDF spokesperson said.

“In response, an IDF aircraft fired warning shots towards the group and towards a nearby vehicle. The IDF views the use of incendiary balloons and kites with great severity and will operate to prevent their use.”


(full article online )

IDF hits Gaza terrorists launching 'balloon bombs'


----------



## Sixties Fan

With the leader of the Hamas terrorist group in attendance, several thousand Palestinians on Friday performed the traditional morning prayer of the Muslim holiday of Eid al-Fitr near Gaza’s perimeter fence with Israel, as part of the now weeks-long protests on the border.

Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh joined about 2,000 worshippers Friday in one of the areas near the fence, pledging that protests would continue. He said the protests have “revived the Palestinian issue” by refocusing world attention and praised a UN General Assembly resolution that passed earlier this week accusing Israel of using “excessive” force against the protesters.

(full article online)

Hamas leader joins thousands of Palestinians at fresh Gaza border protest


----------



## Hollie

Ramadan is the Islamic "holy month" and holy cow, it is a month of Islamic incitement, riots, mayhem and islamics slaughtering their fellow islamics. 

The planet awaits the end of the islamic month of emulating the ideology's inventor.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel Adapts New Rifle Sighting Technology to Intercept Gaza Kite Bombs


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israeli children counter flaming kites with peace balloons


----------



## SassyIrishLass

Sixties Fan said:


> Israeli children counter flaming kites with peace balloons




The loons on the left.....Bbbuut the environment!!


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF attacks vehicle of head of kite terror squad


----------



## Sixties Fan

For 3rd time in a day, IDF conducts airstrikes over Gaza ‘fire balloons’


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

Gaza Media Coverage: Snipers and Lies


----------



## Sixties Fan

Though it did not stop them completely, the military’s aerial bombardments appeared to have some effect on the number of airborne devices launched from the Gaza Strip.

(full article online)

Israel carries out fresh airstrike after Gazans launch fire balloons


----------



## Slyhunter

Sixties Fan said:


>


That justifies carpet bombing them back to the stone age.


----------



## Shusha

Slyhunter said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That justifies carpet bombing them back to the stone age.
Click to expand...


We, on Team Israel, need to be careful in making blanket statements like this one.  It doesn't further our cause and just confirms the idea that Israel is as vile and violent as the Arabs Palestinians are or more so because we have the technology to back it up.  There is nothing in international law which permits carpet bombing anyone or any territory into oblivion.  The standard of military engagements is the least use of force for the necessary military gain and only in self-defense.  That is the standard we need to hold to.  

What we really need to do is limit as far as possible the effect that their belligerent violence has on Israel's civilians and sovereignty, while working towards at minimum being available for peace should the Arab Palestinians come around to that POV.


----------



## Slyhunter

Shusha said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That justifies carpet bombing them back to the stone age.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We, on Team Israel, need to be careful in making blanket statements like this one.  It doesn't further our cause and just confirms the idea that Israel is as vile and violent as the Arabs Palestinians are or more so because we have the technology to back it up.  There is nothing in international law which permits carpet bombing anyone or any territory into oblivion.  The standard of military engagements is the least use of force for the necessary military gain and only in self-defense.  That is the standard we need to hold to.
> 
> What we really need to do is limit as far as possible the effect that their belligerent violence has on Israel's civilians and sovereignty, while working towards at minimum being available for peace should the Arab Palestinians come around to that POV.
Click to expand...

I'm not on team Israel. Right now our enemy is the same, Muslims. I don't side with Israel because I like Israel.


----------



## Shusha

Slyhunter said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That justifies carpet bombing them back to the stone age.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We, on Team Israel, need to be careful in making blanket statements like this one.  It doesn't further our cause and just confirms the idea that Israel is as vile and violent as the Arabs Palestinians are or more so because we have the technology to back it up.  There is nothing in international law which permits carpet bombing anyone or any territory into oblivion.  The standard of military engagements is the least use of force for the necessary military gain and only in self-defense.  That is the standard we need to hold to.
> 
> What we really need to do is limit as far as possible the effect that their belligerent violence has on Israel's civilians and sovereignty, while working towards at minimum being available for peace should the Arab Palestinians come around to that POV.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not on team Israel. Right now our enemy is the same, Muslims. I don't side with Israel because I like Israel.
Click to expand...


Ah.  Gotcha.  So your point was not that we should mow down Gazans because they are engaging in specific belligerent actions -- but that we should mow down Muslims, because Mooooooslims.  I agree then, we are not on the same team.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  Slyhunter, Sixties Fan, et al,

The Israeli Air Force (IAF) does not engage in "Saturation Bombing" (Carpet Bombing).  In fact, the IAF does not even have any intermediate or heavy Bombers.



Slyhunter said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chart Removed.
> 
> 
> 
> That justifies carpet bombing them back to the stone age.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

This is "Carper Bombing" ===> a flight or more of heavy bombers flying in formation and releasing their payload in a specific pattern for maximum effect:  ✪ ⇒




 

 

​When I was in Vietnam, we called such a thing - "Arc Light."  Ask any Vietnam Vet.  The sky would light-up and the ground would tremble.  And you don't even hear them coming.

I would venture to say, 10 days of Vietnam era Arc Light, and there would not be enough left of the northern third of Gaza to build matchboxes.

But what the Israelis have the capability _(although I don't believe they have used it)_ is The BLU-82B/C-130 weapon system (AKA: The Daisy Cutter).  The IAF has C-130s in the inventory.  It is in the family of Massive Ordnance Bombs.   It can be used for a number of different missions; from planting an instant LZ in triple canopy jungle - to - punching holes in mine fields by setting them all off.  A scary one is when responding to a Code: "Broken Arrow" _(emergency response for a unit about to be overrun)_.  Nothing will knock'em back faster than receiving a couple 15,000 pound'ers.

No one "carpet bombed Gaza, ever!

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  Slyhunter, Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> The Israeli Air Force (IAF) does not engage in "Saturation Bombing" (Carpet Bombing).  In fact, the IAF does not even have any intermediate or heavy Bombers.
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chart Removed.
> 
> 
> 
> That justifies carpet bombing them back to the stone age.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is "Carper Bombing" ===> a flight or more of heavy bombers flying in formation and releasing their payload in a specific pattern for maximum effect:  ✪ ⇒
> 
> View attachment 199494 View attachment 199495 View attachment 199496​When I was in Vietnam, we called such a thing - "Arc Light."  Ask any Vietnam Vet.  The sky would light-up and the ground would tremble.  And you don't even hear them coming.
> 
> I would venture to say, 10 days of Vietnam era Arc Light, and there would not be enough left of the northern third of Gaza to build matchboxes.
> 
> But what the Israelis have the capability _(although I don't believe they have used it)_ is The BLU-82B/C-130 weapon system (AKA: The Daisy Cutter).  The IAF has C-130s in the inventory.  It is in the family of Massive Ordnance Bombs.   It can be used for a number of different missions; from planting an instant LZ in triple canopy jungle - to - punching holes in mine fields by setting them all off.  A scary one is when responding to a Code: "Broken Arrow" _(emergency response for a unit about to be overrun)_.  Nothing will knock'em back faster than receiving a couple 15,000 pound'ers.
> 
> No one "carpet bombed Gaza, ever!
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Slyhunter is only "wishful thinking" about bombing the heck out of Gaza.

If it were Iran or Russia, he might get his wish.

But this is Israel.


----------



## Slyhunter

Sixties Fan said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  Slyhunter, Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> The Israeli Air Force (IAF) does not engage in "Saturation Bombing" (Carpet Bombing).  In fact, the IAF does not even have any intermediate or heavy Bombers.
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chart Removed.
> 
> 
> 
> That justifies carpet bombing them back to the stone age.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is "Carper Bombing" ===> a flight or more of heavy bombers flying in formation and releasing their payload in a specific pattern for maximum effect:  ✪ ⇒
> 
> View attachment 199494 View attachment 199495 View attachment 199496​When I was in Vietnam, we called such a thing - "Arc Light."  Ask any Vietnam Vet.  The sky would light-up and the ground would tremble.  And you don't even hear them coming.
> 
> I would venture to say, 10 days of Vietnam era Arc Light, and there would not be enough left of the northern third of Gaza to build matchboxes.
> 
> But what the Israelis have the capability _(although I don't believe they have used it)_ is The BLU-82B/C-130 weapon system (AKA: The Daisy Cutter).  The IAF has C-130s in the inventory.  It is in the family of Massive Ordnance Bombs.   It can be used for a number of different missions; from planting an instant LZ in triple canopy jungle - to - punching holes in mine fields by setting them all off.  A scary one is when responding to a Code: "Broken Arrow" _(emergency response for a unit about to be overrun)_.  Nothing will knock'em back faster than receiving a couple 15,000 pound'ers.
> 
> No one "carpet bombed Gaza, ever!
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Slyhunter is only "wishful thinking" about bombing the heck out of Gaza.
> 
> If it were Iran or Russia, he might get his wish.
> 
> But this is Israel.
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  Slyhunter, Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> The Israeli Air Force (IAF) does not engage in "Saturation Bombing" (Carpet Bombing).  In fact, the IAF does not even have any intermediate or heavy Bombers.
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chart Removed.
> 
> 
> 
> That justifies carpet bombing them back to the stone age.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is "Carper Bombing" ===> a flight or more of heavy bombers flying in formation and releasing their payload in a specific pattern for maximum effect:  ✪ ⇒
> 
> View attachment 199494 View attachment 199495 View attachment 199496​When I was in Vietnam, we called such a thing - "Arc Light."  Ask any Vietnam Vet.  The sky would light-up and the ground would tremble.  And you don't even hear them coming.
> 
> I would venture to say, 10 days of Vietnam era Arc Light, and there would not be enough left of the northern third of Gaza to build matchboxes.
> 
> But what the Israelis have the capability _(although I don't believe they have used it)_ is The BLU-82B/C-130 weapon system (AKA: The Daisy Cutter).  The IAF has C-130s in the inventory.  It is in the family of Massive Ordnance Bombs.   It can be used for a number of different missions; from planting an instant LZ in triple canopy jungle - to - punching holes in mine fields by setting them all off.  A scary one is when responding to a Code: "Broken Arrow" _(emergency response for a unit about to be overrun)_.  Nothing will knock'em back faster than receiving a couple 15,000 pound'ers.
> 
> No one "carpet bombed Gaza, ever!
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Slyhunter is only "wishful thinking" about bombing the heck out of Gaza.
> 
> If it were Iran or Russia, he might get his wish.
> 
> But this is Israel.
Click to expand...

You ever watch a superhero show or read a comic book? They're number one problem is when they beat the bad guy they let him live. Then he comes back later meaner and badder than before. That's the problem in Gaza. You keep letting them live.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Organizer of the Great March of Return says protests in Gaza ‘must go on’*

The next phase of the Great March of Return must see an escalation in artistic, cultural and social actions. Instead of direct confrontation with occupation soldiers, the struggle should take the form of art exhibits, dance and theatre; children planting trees; university professors holding free classes in tents at the base camps; girls in our national dress; people painting, school and family trips; playgrounds and children’s games; novelists and writers sharing our story with the world; musicians bringing our music to the world –all of this taking place in the return camps.

Organizer of the Great March of Return says protests in Gaza ‘must go on’


----------



## Sixties Fan

Slyhunter said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  Slyhunter, Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> The Israeli Air Force (IAF) does not engage in "Saturation Bombing" (Carpet Bombing).  In fact, the IAF does not even have any intermediate or heavy Bombers.
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chart Removed.
> 
> 
> 
> That justifies carpet bombing them back to the stone age.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is "Carper Bombing" ===> a flight or more of heavy bombers flying in formation and releasing their payload in a specific pattern for maximum effect:  ✪ ⇒
> 
> View attachment 199494 View attachment 199495 View attachment 199496​When I was in Vietnam, we called such a thing - "Arc Light."  Ask any Vietnam Vet.  The sky would light-up and the ground would tremble.  And you don't even hear them coming.
> 
> I would venture to say, 10 days of Vietnam era Arc Light, and there would not be enough left of the northern third of Gaza to build matchboxes.
> 
> But what the Israelis have the capability _(although I don't believe they have used it)_ is The BLU-82B/C-130 weapon system (AKA: The Daisy Cutter).  The IAF has C-130s in the inventory.  It is in the family of Massive Ordnance Bombs.   It can be used for a number of different missions; from planting an instant LZ in triple canopy jungle - to - punching holes in mine fields by setting them all off.  A scary one is when responding to a Code: "Broken Arrow" _(emergency response for a unit about to be overrun)_.  Nothing will knock'em back faster than receiving a couple 15,000 pound'ers.
> 
> No one "carpet bombed Gaza, ever!
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Slyhunter is only "wishful thinking" about bombing the heck out of Gaza.
> 
> If it were Iran or Russia, he might get his wish.
> 
> But this is Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  Slyhunter, Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> The Israeli Air Force (IAF) does not engage in "Saturation Bombing" (Carpet Bombing).  In fact, the IAF does not even have any intermediate or heavy Bombers.
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chart Removed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That justifies carpet bombing them back to the stone age.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is "Carper Bombing" ===> a flight or more of heavy bombers flying in formation and releasing their payload in a specific pattern for maximum effect:  ✪ ⇒
> 
> View attachment 199494 View attachment 199495 View attachment 199496​When I was in Vietnam, we called such a thing - "Arc Light."  Ask any Vietnam Vet.  The sky would light-up and the ground would tremble.  And you don't even hear them coming.
> 
> I would venture to say, 10 days of Vietnam era Arc Light, and there would not be enough left of the northern third of Gaza to build matchboxes.
> 
> But what the Israelis have the capability _(although I don't believe they have used it)_ is The BLU-82B/C-130 weapon system (AKA: The Daisy Cutter).  The IAF has C-130s in the inventory.  It is in the family of Massive Ordnance Bombs.   It can be used for a number of different missions; from planting an instant LZ in triple canopy jungle - to - punching holes in mine fields by setting them all off.  A scary one is when responding to a Code: "Broken Arrow" _(emergency response for a unit about to be overrun)_.  Nothing will knock'em back faster than receiving a couple 15,000 pound'ers.
> 
> No one "carpet bombed Gaza, ever!
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Slyhunter is only "wishful thinking" about bombing the heck out of Gaza.
> 
> If it were Iran or Russia, he might get his wish.
> 
> But this is Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You ever watch a superhero show or read a comic book? They're number one problem is when they beat the bad guy they let him live. Then he comes back later meaner and badder than before. That's the problem in Gaza. You keep letting them live.
Click to expand...

It is not just the problem in Gaza.
The main problem is the Islamic ideology embraced by those in Gaza, Judea, Samaria, Jordan, etc, etc.

Israel defeated all 7 Arab countries.  Three times.

But Islamic ideology demands that they do as Muhammad did.
Play low until the enemy is defeated.

Time is not on the Muslim's side.

When there will be a peace treaty as with Egypt and Jordan?

Only when the money stops flowing into those guys pockets and they really need to beg for peace.

Not in this generation, and apparently maybe not even in the next.

So, Israel stands strong and does what it needs to do for now.

It could change.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Col. Richard Kemp has seen the tactics used by Islamic terrorists from very close range. As head of the British forces in Afghanistan in 2003, he witnessed terrorists use human shields when they confronted the armed forces of the United Kingdom, Canada and the United States.

Hamas employs a very similar tactic in Gaza, he told _The CJN_ in a telephone interview from England. During the recent unrest, Hamas did its best to provoke an Israeli response that would blacken its image in the eyes of the world. It’s a tactic that has had some success, inasmuch as it leads people to criticize the Jewish state. But many military men like himself hold the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) in high regard and understand the difficulties it faces when its enemies send civilians into the line of fire, hoping that they get killed, in order to score a propaganda victory.

Kemp, who has been an outspoken supporter of Israel for years, said, “It’s the latest example of Islamic terrorists trying to force Western soldiers to kill their own people.”

Kemp will discuss the recent Gaza conflict in an event sponsored by Israel Bonds of Canada, in conjunction with the Lone Soldiers Center. The evening event, billed as “Bonding With Lone Soldiers,” is scheduled to take place on June 26 at the Shaarei Shomayim Synagogue in Toronto. Lone soldiers are volunteers from around the world who enlist in the IDF and, being foreigners, do not benefit from the family support that Israelis rely upon when they are serving.

(full article online)

British colonel discusses why he supports the IDF


----------



## Sixties Fan

A ‘BBC Minute’ backgrounder misleads on Palestinian refugees


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mahmoud Omar, arrested by Israel for terror-related offenses, tells interrogators his relatives lied: 8-month-old Layla actually died from fatal blood condition that runs in family

(full article online)

Hamas paid family to claim Gaza baby was killed by Israeli tear gas, says cousin


----------



## Sixties Fan

Now, see how a "witness" described Ayyoub's death:

 A Palestinian photographer who took the picture of Ayoub after he was killed said the incident happened a fair distance from the fence.

Abed Alhakeem Abu Rish on Saturday told The Associated Press he saw the teen standing about 150 meters (164 yards) from the fence. He says Ayyoub was about to take cover behind a low sand berm when he was shot and fell to the ground.

Abu Rish’s photographs show Ayoub as he collapses head first and then lies motionless in the same spot.
------------------------------------
In fact he had already passed through the inside barbed wire fence and was headed towards the border fence. The IDF says that Ayyoub was actually trying to damage the fence when he was shot.

Now that we know that Ayyoub went to the riots specifically to get killed, can you believe that he was about to take cover when he was shot and that he was so far away? The number of people killed by the IDF who were not members of terror groups is quite small; Ayyoub must have been acting quite aggressively to attract sniper fire to kill him.

We have seen "suicide by IDF" before, and the "martyr" families are guaranteed large payments. Yet the media does not automatically ask whether these "victims" wanted to be killed and provoked their own deaths.

(full article online)

Palestinians who want the IDF to kill them ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Increasingly pathetic  ]

Sappers defuse incendiary device flown into Israel by inflated condoms


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel deploys electronic eye to track fire kites and balloons from Gaza


----------



## Slyhunter

Sixties Fan said:


> Israel deploys electronic eye to track fire kites and balloons from Gaza


ooo, laser guided missiles linked to the eye to remove the kite flyers.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

We've seen this tactic before.  It is a variation of the Human Shield technique. 

First you establish a barrier of civilian, humanitarian, educational _(emphasizing youth activities), cultural exhibits, etc, etc, etc...) between Israeli forces and HAMAS (Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters)_...  Once well established and peacefully planted, then HAMAS begins a provocation that will necessitate _(even demand)_ an Israeli response; placing this HAMAS established picture of tranquillity in harms way --- mortal danger. 

You don't think HAMAS is such a benevolent leadership, that they won't make self-improvement projects in the city, but for some reason, they will establish a Large-scale refugee style camp _(literally)_ right on the border?

The surprise _(of an attack)_ is in not knowing → what is about to happen!  It is one of the things that make trusting people vulnerable to a faint.   In many successful mystery stories, the culprit is the one least expected. 



P F Tinmore said:


> *Organizer of the Great March of Return says protests in Gaza ‘must go on’*
> 
> The next phase of the Great March of Return must see an escalation in artistic, cultural and social actions. Instead of direct confrontation with occupation soldiers, the struggle should take the form of art exhibits, dance and theatre; children planting trees; university professors holding free classes in tents at the base camps; girls in our national dress; people painting, school and family trips; playgrounds and children’s games; novelists and writers sharing our story with the world; musicians bringing our music to the world –all of this taking place in the return camps.
> 
> Organizer of the Great March of Return says protests in Gaza ‘must go on’


*(COMMENT)*

The HAMAS plan is that when the conditions are right, → HAMAS resources will create such a provocation that Israel will be forced to respond, and the response will result in some major catastrophe →  causing a mass casualty event in the process.  The HAMAS gamble is that the world will not recognize it is an orchestrated event by HAMAS to initiate global condemnation of Israel; believing that the Israelis are heartless and cruel with no moral value on life. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> We've seen this tactic before.  It is a variation of the Human Shield technique.
> 
> First you establish a barrier of civilian, humanitarian, educational _(emphasizing youth activities), cultural exhibits, etc, etc, etc...) between Israeli forces and HAMAS (Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters)_...  Once well established and peacefully planted, then HAMAS begins a provocation that will necessitate _(even demand)_ an Israeli response; placing this HAMAS established picture of tranquillity in harms way --- mortal danger.
> 
> You don't think HAMAS is such a benevolent leadership, that they won't make self-improvement projects in the city, but for some reason, they will establish a Large-scale refugee style camp _(literally)_ right on the border?
> 
> The surprise _(of an attack)_ is in not knowing → what is about to happen!  It is one of the things that make trusting people vulnerable to a faint.   In many successful mystery stories, the culprit is the one least expected.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Organizer of the Great March of Return says protests in Gaza ‘must go on’*
> 
> The next phase of the Great March of Return must see an escalation in artistic, cultural and social actions. Instead of direct confrontation with occupation soldiers, the struggle should take the form of art exhibits, dance and theatre; children planting trees; university professors holding free classes in tents at the base camps; girls in our national dress; people painting, school and family trips; playgrounds and children’s games; novelists and writers sharing our story with the world; musicians bringing our music to the world –all of this taking place in the return camps.
> 
> Organizer of the Great March of Return says protests in Gaza ‘must go on’
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The HAMAS plan is that when the conditions are right, → HAMAS resources will create such a provocation that Israel will be forced to respond, and the response will result in some major catastrophe →  causing a mass casualty event in the process.  The HAMAS gamble is that the world will not recognize it is an orchestrated event by HAMAS to initiate global condemnation of Israel; believing that the Israelis are heartless and cruel with no moral value on life.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Contrary to popular propaganda, this is not a Hamas gig. Hamas does not want a confrontation with Israel.

The idea is to change the face of the protests. No tires, no rocks, no kites. Just family picnics with planned activities.


P F Tinmore said:


> Instead of direct confrontation with occupation soldiers, the struggle should take the form of art exhibits, dance and theatre; children planting trees; university professors holding free classes in tents at the base camps; girls in our national dress; people painting, school and family trips; playgrounds and children’s games; novelists and writers sharing our story with the world; musicians bringing our music to the world –all of this taking place in the return camps.


Israel will have no legitimate excuse to shoot anybody.


----------



## Slyhunter

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> We've seen this tactic before.  It is a variation of the Human Shield technique.
> 
> First you establish a barrier of civilian, humanitarian, educational _(emphasizing youth activities), cultural exhibits, etc, etc, etc...) between Israeli forces and HAMAS (Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters)_...  Once well established and peacefully planted, then HAMAS begins a provocation that will necessitate _(even demand)_ an Israeli response; placing this HAMAS established picture of tranquillity in harms way --- mortal danger.
> 
> You don't think HAMAS is such a benevolent leadership, that they won't make self-improvement projects in the city, but for some reason, they will establish a Large-scale refugee style camp _(literally)_ right on the border?
> 
> The surprise _(of an attack)_ is in not knowing → what is about to happen!  It is one of the things that make trusting people vulnerable to a faint.   In many successful mystery stories, the culprit is the one least expected.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Organizer of the Great March of Return says protests in Gaza ‘must go on’*
> 
> The next phase of the Great March of Return must see an escalation in artistic, cultural and social actions. Instead of direct confrontation with occupation soldiers, the struggle should take the form of art exhibits, dance and theatre; children planting trees; university professors holding free classes in tents at the base camps; girls in our national dress; people painting, school and family trips; playgrounds and children’s games; novelists and writers sharing our story with the world; musicians bringing our music to the world –all of this taking place in the return camps.
> 
> Organizer of the Great March of Return says protests in Gaza ‘must go on’
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The HAMAS plan is that when the conditions are right, → HAMAS resources will create such a provocation that Israel will be forced to respond, and the response will result in some major catastrophe →  causing a mass casualty event in the process.  The HAMAS gamble is that the world will not recognize it is an orchestrated event by HAMAS to initiate global condemnation of Israel; believing that the Israelis are heartless and cruel with no moral value on life.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Contrary to popular propaganda, this is not a Hamas gig. Hamas does not want a confrontation with Israel.
> 
> The idea is to change the face of the protests. No tires, no rocks, no kites. Just family picnics with planned activities.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Instead of direct confrontation with occupation soldiers, the struggle should take the form of art exhibits, dance and theatre; children planting trees; university professors holding free classes in tents at the base camps; girls in our national dress; people painting, school and family trips; playgrounds and children’s games; novelists and writers sharing our story with the world; musicians bringing our music to the world –all of this taking place in the return camps.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel will have no legitimate excuse to shoot anybody.
Click to expand...

Liar.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The idea is to change the face of the protests. No tires, no rocks, no kites. Just family picnics with planned activities.



I think that is a MOST excellent idea.  They should get on that.  Immediately.  Why haven't they?



> Israel will have no legitimate excuse to shoot anybody.


And so Israel won't shoot anybody.  If Gaza had just done that in the FIRST place 161 would still be alive.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you need a crash course in the implications of what HAMAS is planning.  And the excuse that "this is not a HAMAS gig" is not going to cut it.  Far too many HAMAS Officials have admitted as much.  There are many _(far too many)_ HAMAS officials that were present in the "March of Return" gathering; they either were directly or indirect involved in the planning and execution of the "March."

The compulation of the physical evidence, and testimony of those bribed in the falsification of evidence will be very compelling.



			
				Precautions under the law governing the conduct of hostilities - Jean-Franc¸ois Que´guiner. Legal Adviser in the Legal Division of the ICRC said:
			
		

> However, it remains legally accepted that, in the harsh reality of war, civilian persons and objects may be incidentally affected by an attack directed at a legitimate military objective. Euphemistically referred to as ‘‘collateral casualties’’ or ‘‘collateral damage’’,(4) civilians may be victims of mistaken target identification or of unintended but inevitable side effects of an attack on a legitimate target in their vicinity. According to the principle of proportionality, these collateral casualties and damages are lawful under treaty and customary law only if they are not excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.(5)
> ------------------------------------
> Footnotes
> 4 ‘‘Collateral casualties’’ and ‘‘collateral damage’’ are defined in Rule 13(c) of the San Remo Manual on
> International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea as ‘‘the loss of life of, or injury to, civilians or other
> protected persons, and damage to or the destruction of the natural environment or objects that are not in
> themselves military objectives’’.
> 5 Codified in Article 51(5)(b) of Additional Protocol I, the principle of proportionality encompasses more
> than the duty to take precautions in attack. It is, however, relevant in this context, as illustrated by
> Article 57(2)(a)(iii). Since the difficulties in applying this principle are discussed at length in a separate
> contribution to this volume (see Enzo Cannizzaro, ‘‘Contextualising proportionality: ius ad bellum and
> ius in bello in the Lebanese war’’, pp. 779–792), a detailed analysis of this precautionary measure will not
> be made here.​Precautions to be taken by the party subject to an attack
> 
> Any party subject to an attack is prohibited from abusing the obligations of the
> attacker by trying to shield military objectives and operations. Although
> ‘‘technically’’ it could be contested that such prohibition belongs to precautions
> (it is entailed in Article 51(7) Additional Protocol I and not in the provisions
> dealing with precautions) – it remains logical to envisage its content in this context
> since it is one of the main obligations addressed to the defender in order to protect
> the civilian population. In addition to this absolute prohibition of human shield,
> feasible precautions against the effect of attacks are enshrined in Article 58.
> 
> The absolute prohibition of human shield
> 
> The prohibition of the use of the civilian population, individual civilians or
> civilian objects to render a point or an area immune from military operations​While the prohibition of using human shields can be traced back to ancient
> times,(61) the treaty codification of this rule did not make its appearance until much
> later.  Admittedly, Article 19 of the Third Geneva Convention of 1949 requires
> belligerents to evacuate prisoners of war as soon as possible after their capture to
> camps situated in an area far enough from the combat zone for them to be out of
> danger from hostilities.(62)  Article 23 of the same instrument is even more explicit,
> stipulating that prisoners of war may not be sent to, or detained in, areas in which
> they may be exposed to fire from the combat zone. Nor, a fortiori, may they be
> used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations. Along the
> same lines, Article 28 of the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 provides that the
> presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas
> immune from military operations. However, the scope of each of these very
> important provisions is necessarily limited in view of the two instruments’ respective
> fields of application. It was only with the adoption of Article 51(7) of Additional
> Protocol I that the ban on using human shields was finally extended to protect the
> entire civilian population, and all individual civilians, in the following terms:
> The presence or movements of the civilian population or individual civilians
> shall not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military
> operations, in particular in attempts to shield military objectives from attacks
> or to shield, favour or impede military operations. The Parties to the conflict
> shall not direct the movement of the civilian population or individual civilians
> in order to attempt to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield
> military operations.(63)​This provision is skilfully worded. It goes to the heart of the prohibition
> by covering both the forcible movement of civilians to shield military objectives
> from attack as well as more ‘‘subtle’’ practices. For instance, Article 51(7) clearly
> contemplates the scenario of moving civilians to a military site, but it also
> envisages the possibility of deliberately placing a military objective in the middle
> of, or close to, a civilian area, for example by positioning a piece of artillery in a
> school yard or a residential area. Depending on the circumstances, the latter
> scenario may also amount to a violation of the obligation – examined later in this
> paper – to refrain from placing military objectives in or near densely populated
> areas. This violation will be aggravated by the intention of using the civilian
> population as a shield. Article 51(7) also prohibits moving a civilian population or
> individual civilians in an attempt to shield military operations. In short, this
> provision has extended the personal scope of the prohibition to benefit all
> civilians, and has broadened the material scope of the prohibition to cover a
> maximum of situations.(64) The wide support for this rule, particularly in
> diplomatic practice, suggests – with little risk of contradiction – that the
> prohibition enjoys customary status in both international and non-international
> armed conflicts.(65)
> 
> ------------------------------------
> Footnotes
> 61 The first modern attempts to establish international criminal liability did set out to criminalize such
> practices. The prohibition on using human shields is mentioned in the 29 March 1919 report drafted by
> the Commission that was responsible, inter alia, for identifying violations committed by the forces of the
> German Empire and its allies (Miguel A. Marin, ‘‘The evolution and present status of the laws of war’’,
> RCADI (1957-II), p. 678).
> 62 The obligation to evacuate knows one exception, when the prisoner concerned cannot be moved, due to,
> for example, the seriousness of his wounds. It should be noted that the protection afforded to prisoners
> of war also covers the period of time between capture and evacuation. During this interval, they must
> not be unnecessarily exposed to danger.
> 63 Additional Protocol II contains no similar provision; Article 5(2) only mentions that places of
> internment and detention must not be located close to the combat zone.
> 64 As quite aptly noted in the manual Fight it Right, above note 33, p. 58, para. 1003.2, this prohibition on
> using human shields must nevertheless be interpreted in the context of a given military operation. For
> example, a defending commander may not be deemed to be using civilians as human shields when the
> area being defended is a town or residential area that is under siege and allows little opportunity for
> persons to move.
> 65 A very large number of military manuals contain provisions similar to that of Additional Protocol I; see
> Henckaerts and Doswald-Beck, above note 8, Vol. II (Practice), Part 2, pp. 2285–302. In addition, the
> Rome Statute includes the use of human shields in its list of war crimes set out in Article 8(2)(b)(xxiii).​


​


P F Tinmore said:


> Israel will have no legitimate excuse to shoot anybody.


*(COMMENT)*

The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoIS) might well be surprised as the consequences of their actions if the civilian protesters are used to screen HoIS activities.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Contrary to popular propaganda, this is not a Hamas gig. Hamas does not want a confrontation with Israel.
> 
> The idea is to change the face of the protests. No tires, no rocks, no kites. Just family picnics with planned activities.



_Hamas family picnics_™️

Well, there you have it folks. The Hamas politburo mouthpiece has issued his fatwa.
_
*This is not a Hamas gig*_™️ but Hamas apparently has plans for 
_*Family picnics on the Esplanade*™️. _Lots of good, wholesome Death Cult activities are planned so be sure to bring weapons, ammunition and a couple of gallons of gasoline in plastic containers. Oh yeah, and condoms. Don’t forget condoms. Wholesome kid activities will include kite flying and incendiary bomb making.

Do it for.....the children, man.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Contrary to popular propaganda, this is not a Hamas gig. Hamas does not want a confrontation with Israel.
> 
> The idea is to change the face of the protests. No tires, no rocks, no kites. Just family picnics with planned activities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Hamas family picnics_™️
> 
> Well, there you have it folks. The Hamas politburo mouthpiece has issued his fatwa.
> _
> *This is not a Hamas gig*_™️ but Hamas apparently has plans for
> _*Family picnics on the Esplanade*™️. _Lots of good, wholesome Death Cult activities are planned so be sure to bring weapons, ammunition and a couple of gallons of gasoline in plastic containers. Oh yeah, and condoms. Don’t forget condoms. Wholesome kid activities will include kite flying and incendiary bomb making.
> 
> Do it for.....the children, man.
Click to expand...

Stupid post of the day! (so far)

You just make shit up and post it.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Contrary to popular propaganda, this is not a Hamas gig. Hamas does not want a confrontation with Israel.
> 
> The idea is to change the face of the protests. No tires, no rocks, no kites. Just family picnics with planned activities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Hamas family picnics_™️
> 
> Well, there you have it folks. The Hamas politburo mouthpiece has issued his fatwa.
> _
> *This is not a Hamas gig*_™️ but Hamas apparently has plans for
> _*Family picnics on the Esplanade*™️. _Lots of good, wholesome Death Cult activities are planned so be sure to bring weapons, ammunition and a couple of gallons of gasoline in plastic containers. Oh yeah, and condoms. Don’t forget condoms. Wholesome kid activities will include kite flying and incendiary bomb making.
> 
> Do it for.....the children, man.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid post of the day! (so far)
> 
> You just make shit up and post it.
Click to expand...


It was you who wrote about family picnics. Sounds like a lovely time. Islamic terrorist family picnics.


----------



## MJB12741

LMAO!  Great idea.  Hamas "family picnics" with weapons & children as human shields.


----------



## Hollie

(Yonatan Sindel/Flash90)





*Netanyahu: Israel Dealt Palestinian Terror Groups ‘Severest Blow’ in Years*

Netanyahu: Israel Dealt Palestinian Terror Groups ‘Severest Blow’ in Years
May 31, 2018


_“When they test us, they pay immediately. And if they continue testing us, they will pay dearly,” Netanyahu said of Israel’s retaliatory strikes against the Palestinian terror organizations_


----------



## P F Tinmore

MJB12741 said:


> LMAO!  Great idea.  Hamas "family picnics" with weapons & children as human shields.


*Great March of Return organizers: Israeli claims that Hamas is behind protests are lies*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> (Yonatan Sindel/Flash90)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Netanyahu: Israel Dealt Palestinian Terror Groups ‘Severest Blow’ in Years*
> 
> Netanyahu: Israel Dealt Palestinian Terror Groups ‘Severest Blow’ in Years
> May 31, 2018
> 
> 
> _“When they test us, they pay immediately. And if they continue testing us, they will pay dearly,” Netanyahu said of Israel’s retaliatory strikes against the Palestinian terror organizations_


He says the same thing year after year after year.

Hamas is still there.

What a loser.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!  Great idea.  Hamas "family picnics" with weapons & children as human shields.
> 
> 
> 
> *Great March of Return organizers: Israeli claims that Hamas is behind protests are lies*
Click to expand...


Your promotion of silly conspiracy theories is a hoot.

"Peaceful Islamic terrorist demonstrations"

Tinmore will be performing here all week, folks. Be sure to tip your waitresses.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> (Yonatan Sindel/Flash90)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Netanyahu: Israel Dealt Palestinian Terror Groups ‘Severest Blow’ in Years*
> 
> Netanyahu: Israel Dealt Palestinian Terror Groups ‘Severest Blow’ in Years
> May 31, 2018
> 
> 
> _“When they test us, they pay immediately. And if they continue testing us, they will pay dearly,” Netanyahu said of Israel’s retaliatory strikes against the Palestinian terror organizations_
> 
> 
> 
> He says the same thing year after year after year.
> 
> Hamas is still there.
> 
> What a loser.
Click to expand...


Well actually, there are fewer hamas terrorists now than just a few weeks ago. 

That gee-had is working well for you folks, yes?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!  Great idea.  Hamas "family picnics" with weapons & children as human shields.
> 
> 
> 
> *Great March of Return organizers: Israeli claims that Hamas is behind protests are lies*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your promotion of silly conspiracy theories is a hoot.
> 
> "Peaceful Islamic terrorist demonstrations"
> 
> Tinmore will be performing here all week, folks. Be sure to tip your waitresses.
Click to expand...

Are you trying to out stupid your previous post?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!  Great idea.  Hamas "family picnics" with weapons & children as human shields.
> 
> 
> 
> *Great March of Return organizers: Israeli claims that Hamas is behind protests are lies*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your promotion of silly conspiracy theories is a hoot.
> 
> "Peaceful Islamic terrorist demonstrations"
> 
> Tinmore will be performing here all week, folks. Be sure to tip your waitresses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you trying to out stupid your previous post?
Click to expand...


Nice duck.


----------



## Hollie

*Netanyahu: Israel Dealt Palestinian Terror Groups ‘Severest Blow’ in Years*

*Terrorists Brought to Their Knees*
Palestinian terror organizations ceased their fire on Israeli communities after their last barrage early Wednesday morning, and an Israeli defense official said that Jewish state’s massive strikes against Hamas and Islamic Jihad caused the terror groups to cease their fire.

“The IDF launched a significant strike overnight in Gaza and we have acted responsibly, and since the morning the fire has stopped. Israel has delivered a message that if the fire resumes, the attacks on Hamas and the other groups will intensify,” a senior source in the Israeli defense establishment is quoted as saying by the _Jerusalem Post_.

“In recent months, Israel has acted with force and determination against any attempt to violate its sovereignty and/or harm the security of the residents of the south and it will continue to act with force against any attempt to violate the peace,” the official said.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!  Great idea.  Hamas "family picnics" with weapons & children as human shields.
> 
> 
> 
> *Great March of Return organizers: Israeli claims that Hamas is behind protests are lies*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your promotion of silly conspiracy theories is a hoot.
> 
> "Peaceful Islamic terrorist demonstrations"
> 
> Tinmore will be performing here all week, folks. Be sure to tip your waitresses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you trying to out stupid your previous post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice duck.
Click to expand...

There was no substance to duck.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!  Great idea.  Hamas "family picnics" with weapons & children as human shields.
> 
> 
> 
> *Great March of Return organizers: Israeli claims that Hamas is behind protests are lies*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your promotion of silly conspiracy theories is a hoot.
> 
> "Peaceful Islamic terrorist demonstrations"
> 
> Tinmore will be performing here all week, folks. Be sure to tip your waitresses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you trying to out stupid your previous post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no substance to duck.
Click to expand...


The usual Tinmore retreat.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Economic collapse or war: Hamas’s cynical, desperate bid to pressure Israel, PA


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Death of Abu Thuraya: What Really Happened? | CAMERA


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF hits Gaza terrorists launching arson balloons


----------



## Slyhunter

Sixties Fan said:


> IDF hits Gaza terrorists launching arson balloons


When are they going to get a clue and just quit.
They cause themselves more damage than they give by doing this shit. If they just stopped humanitarian aid can be given free access to them and others.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Slyhunter said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> IDF hits Gaza terrorists launching arson balloons
> 
> 
> 
> When are they going to get a clue and just quit.
> They cause themselves more damage than they give by doing this shit. If they just stopped humanitarian aid can be given free access to them and others.
Click to expand...

One needs to understand Islam.  If one does not understand what the ideology of Islam is, one cannot understand why Muslim Arabs, Iranians, Turks, etc cannot give up attempting to destroy Israel.

Education is the solution, but they keep getting the wrong kind.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The IDF says that while the idea to use kites and balloons for the attacks did not come from Hamas, the terror group quickly adopted the tactic.

“After beginning as a popular phenomenon, it has become clear in recent weeks that the launching of arson and explosive device-laden kites and balloons is now a deliberate activity, planned and executed by the Hamas terror organization, targeting Israeli territory from the Gaza Strip.

“Hamas coordinates and executes this activity in the following way: First, a Hamas commander in charge of launching arson kites and balloons directs subordinate operatives to prepare them.

“Upon receiving these instructions, the operatives prepare the kite or balloon and attach flammable or explosive materials, which are taken from Hamas military posts, to it. 

“Arson kites are made by Hamas terror operatives in large quantities and in an organized manner. 

“Once the explosive kites and balloons are fully prepared, the operatives launch them into target areas within Israeli territory that allow for large fires to be ignited.”

(full article online)

IDF reveals how Hamas uses arson terror


----------



## Hollie

Lovely, lovely folks. I suppose in the backward culture of Islamist ideology, using women and children as human shields is perfectly acceptable. 


Hamas leader admits sacrificing "the bodies of our women and children" to achieve a political goal:
"When we decided to embark on these marches, we decided to turn that which is most dear to us – the bodies of our women and children – into a dam blocking the collapse in Arab reality..."- Yahia Sinwar....


----------



## Sixties Fan

http://www.israelhayom.com/2018/06/24/bbc-admits-its-commentator-misled-viewers-on-gaza-deaths/


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF uncovers Hamas' operating system for kite terror


----------



## Sixties Fan

The media hasn't told you the truth about the Gaza border


----------



## Slyhunter

Sixties Fan said:


> The media hasn't told you the truth about the Gaza border


I don't click strange links, they might be viruses. Better to post the pertinent parts of the link.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Slyhunter said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The media hasn't told you the truth about the Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> I don't click strange links, they might be viruses. Better to post the pertinent parts of the link.
Click to expand...

All my links are safe.  Click or do not click, it is up to you.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The media hasn't told you the truth about the Gaza border


A truth that you will never hear is that there is no border there. Israel is merely defending its cage around Gaza.


----------



## Slyhunter

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The media hasn't told you the truth about the Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> A truth that you will never hear is that there is no border there. Israel is merely defending its cage around Gaza.
Click to expand...

Israel does not cover all 4 borders. Use the one that doesn't border on Israel.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The media hasn't told you the truth about the Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> A truth that you will never hear is that there is no border there. Israel is merely defending its cage around Gaza.
Click to expand...


Well, that is an interesting assessment. 

Reasonable people would see the complete withdrawal of Israel's military, government and civilian population from Gaza as being an opportunity for sovereignty, self-government and self-determination.  It takes a special kind of Palestinian mentality to see steps towards an independent State as a "cage".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The media hasn't told you the truth about the Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> A truth that you will never hear is that there is no border there. Israel is merely defending its cage around Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, that is an interesting assessment.
> 
> Reasonable people would see the complete withdrawal of Israel's military, government and civilian population from Gaza as being an opportunity for sovereignty, self-government and self-determination.  It takes a special kind of Palestinian mentality to see steps towards an independent State as a "cage".
Click to expand...

That is the *lie* that Israel keeps hawking.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The media hasn't told you the truth about the Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> A truth that you will never hear is that there is no border there. Israel is merely defending its cage around Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, that is an interesting assessment.
> 
> Reasonable people would see the complete withdrawal of Israel's military, government and civilian population from Gaza as being an opportunity for sovereignty, self-government and self-determination.  It takes a special kind of Palestinian mentality to see steps towards an independent State as a "cage".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is the *lie* that Israel keeps hawking.
Click to expand...


What is the lie?  That Gaza is capable of being an independent State?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Slyhunter said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The media hasn't told you the truth about the Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> I don't click strange links, they might be viruses. Better to post the pertinent parts of the link.
Click to expand...


Can’t do that. You can post part of the article but you have to post the link otherwise the moderators will erase it


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The media hasn't told you the truth about the Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> A truth that you will never hear is that there is no border there. Israel is merely defending its cage around Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, that is an interesting assessment.
> 
> Reasonable people would see the complete withdrawal of Israel's military, government and civilian population from Gaza as being an opportunity for sovereignty, self-government and self-determination.  It takes a special kind of Palestinian mentality to see steps towards an independent State as a "cage".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is the *lie* that Israel keeps hawking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is the lie?  That Gaza is capable of being an independent State?
Click to expand...

No.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The media hasn't told you the truth about the Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> A truth that you will never hear is that there is no border there. Israel is merely defending its cage around Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, that is an interesting assessment.
> 
> Reasonable people would see the complete withdrawal of Israel's military, government and civilian population from Gaza as being an opportunity for sovereignty, self-government and self-determination.  It takes a special kind of Palestinian mentality to see steps towards an independent State as a "cage".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is the *lie* that Israel keeps hawking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is the lie?  That Gaza is capable of being an independent State?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
Click to expand...


So you agree that Gaza is capable of being an independent State.  So why call it a "cage" then?  Why reject the boundary demarcation?  Why not call it was it is -- an lost opportunity.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The media hasn't told you the truth about the Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> A truth that you will never hear is that there is no border there. Israel is merely defending its cage around Gaza.
Click to expand...


You’re quite befuddled. Security measures implemented by Israel are to keep you people _out, _thus protecting Israeli citizens. 

It's funny that you have made your own cage in term of the fantasy world you dwell in. If there is no Israeli border, then who is it, defending the border you Islamic terrorists are trying to breach?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Despite this framing of the incident, the media cannot be blamed for covering the story. They can, however, be held responsible for taking Hamas claims at face value, not only in this case but more widely.

Reports now suggest that Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar paid baby Leila’s parents NIS 8,000 ($2,200) to tell the media that the infant had died due to tear gas inhalation at the Gaza protests. This information comes from a relative of the family arrested and questioned over terror activities at the Gaza border who told Israeli authorities that the baby had died of a fatal blood condition that runs in the family.

Perhaps the media might be skeptical of any information of this nature given that it was apparently obtained from a Palestinian held in Israeli custody. Nonetheless, surely those same media outlets that reported the baby’s death in such a damning manner even while questions remained, have a duty to report this latest development? After all, how can the media not give equal coverage to what they would claim to be equal and competing narratives?

But, aside from a few reports, this new revelation simply didn’t register on most of the international media’s radars. A blood libel, like most of the blood libels leveled at Israel over the years, has essentially become part of the accepted narrative even if it is subsequently proven to be fake news.

Hamas knows it can get away with it.

(full article online)

Gaza baby libel: Equal narratives; unequal treatment


----------



## Sixties Fan

There is absolutely no doubt that Hamas organized the Gaza demonstrations utilizing armed violence, firebombs and human shields, secure in the knowledge that progressive apologists and media flunkies would shield it from critical scrutiny and provide it with public relations support.  This became clear when a baby girl was alleged to have died of asphyxiation in the melee and reporters rushed to blame Israeli tear gas, not parents who (if the story were true) brought an infant into a war zone created by Hamas – a terror organization that intentionally puts women and children at risk.  Blaming Israeli soldiers for the girl’s death (which was subsequently reported to have been caused by a blood disease and falsely attributed to Israel, while it was discovered that Hamas had paid the parents to bring her there and claim her death was due to Israel) was simply a restatement of the old calumny that Jews kill children for nefarious purposes.

Press reports of the alleged incident had all the contrivance of Thomas Monmouth’s “The Life and Miracles of St. William of Norwich,” a medieval anti-Semitic screed about the supposed ritual murder of young William of Norwich in 1144, which began a series of libels against the Jews of England that culminated in the Edict of Expulsion in 1290.  Apparently, some slanders never grow stale.    

With few exceptions, coverage of the violence in Gaza has been slanted by useful idiots in the media to defend Hamas, portray violent demonstrations as peaceful, and advance a revisionist Palestinian narrative that repudiates Israel’s legitimacy and historical antecedents.  They have also been complicit in attempts by UNESCO, the Palestinian Authority, and others to erase Jewish history by inter alia validating claims that the Temple never stood in Jerusalem and characterizing landmarks like the Western Wall, the Cave of Patriarchs, and Rachel’s Tomb as “endangered Palestinian heritage sites.”

(full article online )

The media's embrace of anti-Semitism


----------



## Sixties Fan

It is difficult to find articles in English about the fires being set daily by incendiary kites and balloons from Gaza.

But Palestine Today highlights them.

20 fires on Tuesday. 5 fires on Monday. 16 fires on Sunday. 26 fires on Saturday. 15 fires on Friday.  12 fires last Thursday.

(full article online)

Arabic sites gleefully following continuing fires from Gaza incendiary kites, balloons ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

I suggested the kites in the background were not a good look, given the palestinians are sending in to Israel flaming ones, not to mention ones with swastikas drawn on them.

Well, apparently it _wasn’t_ just me. Not long after my post, he deleted the tweet, replacing it with this one.

(full article online)

UN Secretary-General António Guterres Takes Down ‘Kite’ Tweet


----------



## Shusha

I saw a tweet on hour ago claiming a 15 year old boy was sent across the Gaza boundary into Israel. He was wrapped in explosives. 

Explosives experts and doctors at an Israeli hospital are trying to save his life. 

I'm still trying to find some sort of news article on this to confirm. 

Are any of the cough cough objective posters from Team P going to condemn this abhorrent behaviour of using children as human bombs?


----------



## Slyhunter

Shusha said:


> I saw a tweet on hour ago claiming a 15 year old boy was sent across the Gaza boundary into Israel. He was wrapped in explosives.
> 
> Explosives experts and doctors at an Israeli hospital are trying to save his life.
> 
> I'm still trying to find some sort of news article on this to confirm.
> 
> Are any of the cough cough objective posters from Team P going to condemn this abhorrent behaviour of using children as human bombs?


They call this self defense.


----------



## Shusha

Slyhunter said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I saw a tweet on hour ago claiming a 15 year old boy was sent across the Gaza boundary into Israel. He was wrapped in explosives.
> 
> Explosives experts and doctors at an Israeli hospital are trying to save his life.
> 
> I'm still trying to find some sort of news article on this to confirm.
> 
> Are any of the cough cough objective posters from Team P going to condemn this abhorrent behaviour of using children as human bombs?
> 
> 
> 
> They call this self defense.
Click to expand...


They have the right to use children to "resist".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I saw a tweet on hour ago claiming a 15 year old boy was sent across the Gaza boundary into Israel. He was wrapped in explosives.
> 
> Explosives experts and doctors at an Israeli hospital are trying to save his life.
> 
> I'm still trying to find some sort of news article on this to confirm.
> 
> Are any of the cough cough objective posters from Team P going to condemn this abhorrent behaviour of using children as human bombs?
> 
> 
> 
> They call this self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They have the right to use children to "resist".
Click to expand...

Israel has the right to kill children for "defense?"


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I saw a tweet on hour ago claiming a 15 year old boy was sent across the Gaza boundary into Israel. He was wrapped in explosives.
> 
> Explosives experts and doctors at an Israeli hospital are trying to save his life.
> 
> I'm still trying to find some sort of news article on this to confirm.
> 
> Are any of the cough cough objective posters from Team P going to condemn this abhorrent behaviour of using children as human bombs?
> 
> 
> 
> They call this self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They have the right to use children to "resist".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has the right to kill children for "defense?"
Click to expand...


Yes if a kid runs on a stabbing spree, or wearing an explosive belt, Israel is obliged to neutralize him or her to protect civilians and soldiers.
Common sense around the world.

Only suicidal Jihadis and their supporters whine about receiving what they aspire for.


----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I saw a tweet on hour ago claiming a 15 year old boy was sent across the Gaza boundary into Israel. He was wrapped in explosives.
> 
> Explosives experts and doctors at an Israeli hospital are trying to save his life.
> 
> I'm still trying to find some sort of news article on this to confirm.
> 
> Are any of the cough cough objective posters from Team P going to condemn this abhorrent behaviour of using children as human bombs?
> 
> 
> 
> They call this self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They have the right to use children to "resist".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has the right to kill children for "defense?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes if a kid runs on a stabbing spree, or wearing an explosive belt, Israel is obliged to neutralize him or her to protect civilians and soldiers.
> Common sense around the world.
> 
> Only suicidal Jihadis and their supporters whine about receiving what they aspire for.
Click to expand...

Over 500 children killed in 2014. What were they doing?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I saw a tweet on hour ago claiming a 15 year old boy was sent across the Gaza boundary into Israel. He was wrapped in explosives.
> 
> Explosives experts and doctors at an Israeli hospital are trying to save his life.
> 
> I'm still trying to find some sort of news article on this to confirm.
> 
> Are any of the cough cough objective posters from Team P going to condemn this abhorrent behaviour of using children as human bombs?
> 
> 
> 
> They call this self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They have the right to use children to "resist".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has the right to kill children for "defense?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes if a kid runs on a stabbing spree, or wearing an explosive belt, Israel is obliged to neutralize him or her to protect civilians and soldiers.
> Common sense around the world.
> 
> Only suicidal Jihadis and their supporters whine about receiving what they aspire for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Over 500 children killed in 2014. What were they doing?
Click to expand...


Why did your Islamic terrorist heroes put them in their war zone?

Hamas did, after all, give the children military training in the Hitler Youth Summer camp.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> They call this self defense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have the right to use children to "resist".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has the right to kill children for "defense?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes if a kid runs on a stabbing spree, or wearing an explosive belt, Israel is obliged to neutralize him or her to protect civilians and soldiers.
> Common sense around the world.
> 
> Only suicidal Jihadis and their supporters whine about receiving what they aspire for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Over 500 children killed in 2014. What were they doing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why did your Islamic terrorist heroes put them in their war zone?
> 
> Hamas did, after all, give the children military training in the Hitler Youth Summer camp.
Click to expand...

It is Israel's war zone. There was no war before Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> They have the right to use children to "resist".
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has the right to kill children for "defense?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes if a kid runs on a stabbing spree, or wearing an explosive belt, Israel is obliged to neutralize him or her to protect civilians and soldiers.
> Common sense around the world.
> 
> Only suicidal Jihadis and their supporters whine about receiving what they aspire for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Over 500 children killed in 2014. What were they doing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why did your Islamic terrorist heroes put them in their war zone?
> 
> Hamas did, after all, give the children military training in the Hitler Youth Summer camp.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's war zone. There was no war before Israel.
Click to expand...


Sorry, Chuckles. Israel responded to acts of war perpetrated by your Islamic terrorist heroes. 

Just another example of the diseased Islamic mindset that insists land conquered as part of the Islamist settler colonial project is an Islamist waqf  , forever a part of ummah’istan. 

You insist on parading around dead bodies like a prize you won.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has the right to kill children for "defense?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes if a kid runs on a stabbing spree, or wearing an explosive belt, Israel is obliged to neutralize him or her to protect civilians and soldiers.
> Common sense around the world.
> 
> Only suicidal Jihadis and their supporters whine about receiving what they aspire for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Over 500 children killed in 2014. What were they doing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why did your Islamic terrorist heroes put them in their war zone?
> 
> Hamas did, after all, give the children military training in the Hitler Youth Summer camp.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's war zone. There was no war before Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, Chuckles. Israel responded to acts of war perpetrated by your Islamic terrorist heroes.
> 
> Just another example of the diseased Islamic mindset that insists land conquered as part of the Islamist settler colonial project is an Islamist waqf  , forever a part of ummah’istan.
> 
> You insist on parading around dead bodies like a prize you won.
Click to expand...

There was no war before Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes if a kid runs on a stabbing spree, or wearing an explosive belt, Israel is obliged to neutralize him or her to protect civilians and soldiers.
> Common sense around the world.
> 
> Only suicidal Jihadis and their supporters whine about receiving what they aspire for.
> 
> 
> 
> Over 500 children killed in 2014. What were they doing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why did your Islamic terrorist heroes put them in their war zone?
> 
> Hamas did, after all, give the children military training in the Hitler Youth Summer camp.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's war zone. There was no war before Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, Chuckles. Israel responded to acts of war perpetrated by your Islamic terrorist heroes.
> 
> Just another example of the diseased Islamic mindset that insists land conquered as part of the Islamist settler colonial project is an Islamist waqf  , forever a part of ummah’istan.
> 
> You insist on parading around dead bodies like a prize you won.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no war before Israel.
Click to expand...


You’re stuttering and mumbling. 

Islamist history is one of war, rapine, conquest and settler colonialism. 

The Ottoman Empire was built on those attributes and included the fascist Islamist practice of dhimmitude in the geographic area of Pal’istan. 

You should seek professional medical help for your pathology of self-hate and feelings of inadequacy and despair.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Over 500 children killed in 2014. What were they doing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why did your Islamic terrorist heroes put them in their war zone?
> 
> Hamas did, after all, give the children military training in the Hitler Youth Summer camp.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's war zone. There was no war before Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, Chuckles. Israel responded to acts of war perpetrated by your Islamic terrorist heroes.
> 
> Just another example of the diseased Islamic mindset that insists land conquered as part of the Islamist settler colonial project is an Islamist waqf  , forever a part of ummah’istan.
> 
> You insist on parading around dead bodies like a prize you won.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no war before Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re stuttering and mumbling.
> 
> Islamist history is one of war, rapine, conquest and settler colonialism.
> 
> The Ottoman Empire was built on those attributes and included the fascist Islamist practice of dhimmitude in the geographic area of Pal’istan.
> 
> You should seek professional medical help for your pathology of self-hate and feelings of inadequacy and despair.
Click to expand...

Palestine was merely the victim of that. That wasn't their gig.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why did your Islamic terrorist heroes put them in their war zone?
> 
> Hamas did, after all, give the children military training in the Hitler Youth Summer camp.
> 
> 
> 
> It is Israel's war zone. There was no war before Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, Chuckles. Israel responded to acts of war perpetrated by your Islamic terrorist heroes.
> 
> Just another example of the diseased Islamic mindset that insists land conquered as part of the Islamist settler colonial project is an Islamist waqf  , forever a part of ummah’istan.
> 
> You insist on parading around dead bodies like a prize you won.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no war before Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re stuttering and mumbling.
> 
> Islamist history is one of war, rapine, conquest and settler colonialism.
> 
> The Ottoman Empire was built on those attributes and included the fascist Islamist practice of dhimmitude in the geographic area of Pal’istan.
> 
> You should seek professional medical help for your pathology of self-hate and feelings of inadequacy and despair.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was merely the victim of that. That wasn't their gig.
Click to expand...


Actually, you’re the victim of your own ignorance. That’s your gig. You have this silly Disney’esque version of the Ottoman Empire of which the geographic area of Pal’istan was a part. But clearly, Pal’istan shared all the fascist ideological imperatives that define Islamic fascism including dhimmitude for non-Islamics. 

It’s a shame that you try and deny Islamist history.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes if a kid runs on a stabbing spree, or wearing an explosive belt, Israel is obliged to neutralize him or her to protect civilians and soldiers.
> Common sense around the world.
> 
> Only suicidal Jihadis and their supporters whine about receiving what they aspire for.
> 
> 
> 
> Over 500 children killed in 2014. What were they doing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why did your Islamic terrorist heroes put them in their war zone?
> 
> Hamas did, after all, give the children military training in the Hitler Youth Summer camp.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's war zone. There was no war before Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, Chuckles. Israel responded to acts of war perpetrated by your Islamic terrorist heroes.
> 
> Just another example of the diseased Islamic mindset that insists land conquered as part of the Islamist settler colonial project is an Islamist waqf  , forever a part of ummah’istan.
> 
> You insist on parading around dead bodies like a prize you won.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no war before Israel.
Click to expand...


Arabs have been systematically raping, murdering and displacing Palestinian Jews long before Israel was re-established.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I saw a tweet on hour ago claiming a 15 year old boy was sent across the Gaza boundary into Israel. He was wrapped in explosives.
> 
> Explosives experts and doctors at an Israeli hospital are trying to save his life.
> 
> I'm still trying to find some sort of news article on this to confirm.
> 
> Are any of the cough cough objective posters from Team P going to condemn this abhorrent behaviour of using children as human bombs?
> 
> 
> 
> They call this self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They have the right to use children to "resist".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has the right to kill children for "defense?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes if a kid runs on a stabbing spree, or wearing an explosive belt, Israel is obliged to neutralize him or her to protect civilians and soldiers.
> Common sense around the world.
> 
> Only suicidal Jihadis and their supporters whine about receiving what they aspire for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Over 500 children killed in 2014. What were they doing?
Click to expand...



Go whine to Hamas that uses children as soldiers and tunnel construction labor....oh wait but You Jihadi fans fully support that...You whine even when Israelis free those teenagers from explosive belts, You just need them to die to have a reason to express Your hatred towards Israel.

*You're worse than Hamas, while they generate money pushing their people to death, You're doing it for free.*


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gaza terrorists posted a video showing a large balloon that they claim can carry burning materials 40 kilometers into Israel.

They put Arabic and Hebrew slogans on the balloon.

There is no legal or moral difference between an incendiary balloon and a rocket.

Keep in mind that these balloons are helium balloons, and Israel only allows helium into Gaza for medical reasons.

Which means that aid is being redirected to terror.

(full article online)

Gazans test balloons that can set fires much deeper into Israeli territory ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> Gaza terrorists posted a video showing a large balloon that they claim can carry burning materials 40 kilometers into Israel.
> 
> They put Arabic and Hebrew slogans on the balloon.
> 
> There is no legal or moral difference between an incendiary balloon and a rocket.
> 
> Keep in mind that these balloons are helium balloons, and Israel only allows helium into Gaza for medical reasons.
> 
> Which means that aid is being redirected to terror.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gazans test balloons that can set fires much deeper into Israeli territory ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



It will be interesting to see if Israel gets serious, _now_, about stopping the environmental damage being done by the Arabs-Moslems in light of this more serious threat to israeli citizens.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel has the right to kill children for "defense?"



Israel has a right to defend itself from bomb attacks.  The fact that the bomb is delivered by a CHILD is on the Arab Palestinians and they bear sole responsibility.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has the right to kill children for "defense?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has a right to defend itself from bomb attacks.  The fact that the bomb is delivered by a CHILD is on the Arab Palestinians and they bear sole responsibility.
Click to expand...

Cherry picking.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has the right to kill children for "defense?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has a right to defend itself from bomb attacks.  The fact that the bomb is delivered by a CHILD is on the Arab Palestinians and they bear sole responsibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cherry picking.
Click to expand...

What you mean is that you really have nothing morally correct to post, so you just type anything cute to cover it.

You are always showing how much you care about the Arab children who are taught to hate and to kill Jews anytime they feel like.

Here was another example of your amazing Christian mind, full of hope that the Jews will be wiped out from the earth.

And THAT.....is on YOU.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has the right to kill children for "defense?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has a right to defend itself from bomb attacks.  The fact that the bomb is delivered by a CHILD is on the Arab Palestinians and they bear sole responsibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cherry picking.
Click to expand...


Why don't you condemn this abhorrent behaviour?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has the right to kill children for "defense?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has a right to defend itself from bomb attacks.  The fact that the bomb is delivered by a CHILD is on the Arab Palestinians and they bear sole responsibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cherry picking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What you mean is that you really have nothing morally correct to post, so you just type anything cute to cover it.
> 
> You are always showing how much you care about the Arab children who are taught to hate and to kill Jews anytime they feel like.
> 
> Here was another example of your amazing Christian mind, full of hope that the Jews will be wiped out from the earth.
> 
> And THAT.....is on YOU.
Click to expand...

WOW, where do you get all of this crap?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has the right to kill children for "defense?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has a right to defend itself from bomb attacks.  The fact that the bomb is delivered by a CHILD is on the Arab Palestinians and they bear sole responsibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cherry picking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why don't you condemn this abhorrent behaviour?
Click to expand...

Perhaps you should look at the log in your own eye.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has the right to kill children for "defense?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has a right to defend itself from bomb attacks.  The fact that the bomb is delivered by a CHILD is on the Arab Palestinians and they bear sole responsibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cherry picking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why don't you condemn this abhorrent behaviour?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps you should look at the log in your own eye.
Click to expand...


Why won't you condemn this abhorrent behaviour of using children to carry bombs?


----------



## Hollie

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has the right to kill children for "defense?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has a right to defend itself from bomb attacks.  The fact that the bomb is delivered by a CHILD is on the Arab Palestinians and they bear sole responsibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cherry picking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why don't you condemn this abhorrent behaviour?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps you should look at the log in your own eye.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why won't you condemn this abhorrent behaviour of using children to carry bombs?
Click to expand...


He doesnt see that behavior as abhorrent. Islamics see war against Jews as a religious duty. It is incumbent on the ummah to make war against non-islamics until Islam (submission to muhammud's will) is the supreme force in the world.

It's just that be hasn't learned that the Caliphate is still lying in the bottom of history's trashcan. Islamic ideology is truly an alternate reality unto itself, and that alternate reality routinely warps time and space to end up as such locations as_* The Tinmore Vortex*_


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Time for a second fence, stronger fence, what kind of a fence?]


The Arab media is using the video above to show the world that the IDF kidnaps innnocent Gazans. The truth is that we stopped him from infiltrating into Israel. When the Gaza terrorists damage the security fence to infiltrate they are also creating holes for our soldiers to then enter, stop them and arrest them. Since he was wounded the IDF took him to an Israeli hospital.

The IDF spokesman announced at the time that “IDF troops identified three terrorists who damaged the security fence and attempted to infiltrate Israel from the southern Gaza Strip. In response, the troops fired towards the suspects and thwarted the infiltration”.

The wounded Gaza terrorist was evacuated to Barzilai Hospital in Ashkelon, Israel. A doctor giving treatment to the terrorist found the grenades on the terrorist’s body.

(full article online)

Live grenades found on wounded Gaza terrorist evacuated to an Israeli hospital - Israel Unwired


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has the right to kill children for "defense?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has a right to defend itself from bomb attacks.  The fact that the bomb is delivered by a CHILD is on the Arab Palestinians and they bear sole responsibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cherry picking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why don't you condemn this abhorrent behaviour?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps you should look at the log in your own eye.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why won't you condemn this abhorrent behaviour of using children to carry bombs?
Click to expand...

Why won't you condemn Israel's killing of thousands if Palestinian children?

Why do you always pound on Palestine's onesies, twosies while ignoring Israel's massive killings?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has a right to defend itself from bomb attacks.  The fact that the bomb is delivered by a CHILD is on the Arab Palestinians and they bear sole responsibility.
> 
> 
> 
> Cherry picking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why don't you condemn this abhorrent behaviour?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps you should look at the log in your own eye.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why won't you condemn this abhorrent behaviour of using children to carry bombs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why won't you condemn Israel's killing of thousands if Palestinian children?
> 
> Why do you always pound on Palestine's onesies, twosies while ignoring Israel's massive killings?
Click to expand...


Israeli children don't carry weapons, and don't go on stabbing sprees.
Israeli mothers don't strap their children with explosive belts neither.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cherry picking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you condemn this abhorrent behaviour?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps you should look at the log in your own eye.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why won't you condemn this abhorrent behaviour of using children to carry bombs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why won't you condemn Israel's killing of thousands if Palestinian children?
> 
> Why do you always pound on Palestine's onesies, twosies while ignoring Israel's massive killings?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israeli children don't carry weapons, and don't go on stabbing sprees.
> Israeli mothers don't strap their children with explosive belts neither.
Click to expand...

With very rare exception, Palestinian children are killed in their own homes or in their own neighborhoods.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you condemn this abhorrent behaviour?
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps you should look at the log in your own eye.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why won't you condemn this abhorrent behaviour of using children to carry bombs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why won't you condemn Israel's killing of thousands if Palestinian children?
> 
> Why do you always pound on Palestine's onesies, twosies while ignoring Israel's massive killings?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israeli children don't carry weapons, and don't go on stabbing sprees.
> Israeli mothers don't strap their children with explosive belts neither.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> With very rare exception, Palestinian children are killed in their own homes or in their own neighborhoods.
Click to expand...


Or by their own mothers and fathers...


----------



## rylah

*Hamas teaches children to be suicide terrorists "like Mommy"*


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> *Hamas teaches children to be suicide terrorists "like Mommy"*


The Palestinians stopped suicide bombing over a decade ago. you need to update your propaganda.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas teaches children to be suicide terrorists "like Mommy"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians stopped suicide bombing over a decade ago. you need to update your propaganda.
Click to expand...


They stopped suicide bombings more than a decade ago? That’s quite a milestone on the human development scale. Now, Hamas sends legions of graduates from the Hitler Youth Camps in attempts to breach the Israeli border.

I guess you lovely folks have been sliding backward on the human development scale.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas teaches children to be suicide terrorists "like Mommy"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians stopped suicide bombing over a decade ago. you need to update your propaganda.
Click to expand...


This BS again?!
A couple of months ago:


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas teaches children to be suicide terrorists "like Mommy"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians stopped suicide bombing over a decade ago. you need to update your propaganda.
Click to expand...


Yeah, no.  They didn't.  Just yesterday is what we are discussing.

Why will you not condemn the use of children to carry bombs?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Why won't you condemn Israel's killing of thousands if Palestinian children?



I absolutely condemn the use of children in war.  By anyone.  In any place.  At any time.  It is a vile and abhorrent practice. 

I also absolutely condemn the deliberate targeting of non-combatants.  By anyone.  In any place.  At any time.

I also absolutely condemn the placement of military objectives, armed disguised combatants and weapons amongst non-combatant civilians.

Your turn.


----------



## Shusha

This one ended up being a suicide bomb by accident.


----------



## Shusha

Oh look, another one bomb in Hebron.


----------



## Shusha

And what about the guy who was working on bombs in his apartment and it exploded on him just last week.  Its too easy to find examples.  Now if grown adults want to become combatants and strap bombs to themselves that is there decision (vile as it is).  But strapping bombs onto children is repugnant on a whole other level.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Bomb squad dispatched to forest near Kiryat Gat after explosive device discovered. Police suspect kite or balloon used as delivery system.

(full article online)

Gaza bomb found in Israeli forest


----------



## Sixties Fan

Further research shows that the same photo was used in April for Gaza fires.

Arab media loves pictures of religious Jews. They look sort of creepy especially in silhouette.

This particular photo was taken during the catastrophic 2010 fires in Israel, many of which were Arab arson.

(full article online)

Arabs finally found a perfect photo to depict fires in Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Oh look, another one bomb in Hebron.


Perfectly legal attack on foreign troops.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh look, another one bomb in Hebron.
> 
> 
> 
> Perfectly legal attack on foreign troops.
Click to expand...

The foreigner in America embraces the foreigners in the Land of Israel.

As long as the foreign invaders keep the lands they took by force from the indigenous people of the lands......all is well with the world.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Two killed, Palestinian medics say as Gaza protest enters 14th week*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*State of Palestine: 'Great Dance of Return' - Dabke performed at Gaza border*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Two killed, Palestinian medics say as Gaza protest enters 14th week*



Allah has played a cruel joke on Arabs-Moslems.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *State of Palestine: 'Great Dance of Return' - Dabke performed at Gaza border*
> 
> **



Its all fun and dancing until the incoming starts.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Two killed, Palestinian medics say as Gaza protest enters 14th week*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Allah has played a cruel joke on Arabs-Moslems.
Click to expand...

14 weeks, huh? And Israel is too stupid to come up with a solution.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Two killed, Palestinian medics say as Gaza protest enters 14th week*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Allah has played a cruel joke on Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 14 weeks, huh? And Israel is too stupid to come up with a solution.
Click to expand...

The solution would be the one Hamas and you do not want.  Put an end to Hamas and their leaders.

But then......you would start crying......."Genocide".

Do not worry, their time will come.  Sooner than later Israel will take care of it.

Take a seat.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Two killed, Palestinian medics say as Gaza protest enters 14th week*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Allah has played a cruel joke on Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 14 weeks, huh? And Israel is too stupid to come up with a solution.
Click to expand...


Israel has a solution to Arab-Moslem terrorism. It's called "protecting its borders". 

Incitement to violence, the vile practice of using children as combatants and the behaviors of Arabs-Moslems require solutions that can only come from Arabs-Moslems. 

We both know that won't happen so, yes, feel free to parade the bodies of Arabs-Moslems who make ignorant choices.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Two killed, Palestinian medics say as Gaza protest enters 14th week*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Allah has played a cruel joke on Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 14 weeks, huh? And Israel is too stupid to come up with a solution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel has a solution to Arab-Moslem terrorism. It's called "protecting its borders".
> 
> Incitement to violence, the vile practice of using children as combatants and the behaviors of Arabs-Moslems require solutions that can only come from Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> We both know that won't happen so, yes, feel free to parade the bodies of Arabs-Moslems who make ignorant choices.
Click to expand...

More unsubstantiated BS Israeli talking points.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Two killed, Palestinian medics say as Gaza protest enters 14th week*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Allah has played a cruel joke on Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 14 weeks, huh? And Israel is too stupid to come up with a solution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel has a solution to Arab-Moslem terrorism. It's called "protecting its borders".
> 
> Incitement to violence, the vile practice of using children as combatants and the behaviors of Arabs-Moslems require solutions that can only come from Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> We both know that won't happen so, yes, feel free to parade the bodies of Arabs-Moslems who make ignorant choices.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More unsubstantiated BS Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...


Unsubstantiated?  
What is the solution to an entire group of people wanting to invade your country, take it over and commit murder and genocide, again?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Two killed, Palestinian medics say as Gaza protest enters 14th week*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Allah has played a cruel joke on Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 14 weeks, huh? And Israel is too stupid to come up with a solution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel has a solution to Arab-Moslem terrorism. It's called "protecting its borders".
> 
> Incitement to violence, the vile practice of using children as combatants and the behaviors of Arabs-Moslems require solutions that can only come from Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> We both know that won't happen so, yes, feel free to parade the bodies of Arabs-Moslems who make ignorant choices.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More unsubstantiated BS Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...

You are really on a roll today, Tinmore.

More......more.....give us more


----------



## Slyhunter

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Two killed, Palestinian medics say as Gaza protest enters 14th week*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Allah has played a cruel joke on Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 14 weeks, huh? And Israel is too stupid to come up with a solution.
Click to expand...

I got one, kill them all. Kill everyone who attempts to cross the border. We should try that here in the US.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Two killed, Palestinian medics say as Gaza protest enters 14th week*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Allah has played a cruel joke on Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 14 weeks, huh? And Israel is too stupid to come up with a solution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel has a solution to Arab-Moslem terrorism. It's called "protecting its borders".
> 
> Incitement to violence, the vile practice of using children as combatants and the behaviors of Arabs-Moslems require solutions that can only come from Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> We both know that won't happen so, yes, feel free to parade the bodies of Arabs-Moslems who make ignorant choices.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More unsubstantiated BS Israeli talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unsubstantiated?
> What is the solution to an entire group of people wanting to invade your country, take it over and commit murder and genocide, again?
Click to expand...

Are you still pimping Hamas? This is not a Hamas gig.


----------



## Slyhunter

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Allah has played a cruel joke on Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> 
> 
> 14 weeks, huh? And Israel is too stupid to come up with a solution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel has a solution to Arab-Moslem terrorism. It's called "protecting its borders".
> 
> Incitement to violence, the vile practice of using children as combatants and the behaviors of Arabs-Moslems require solutions that can only come from Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> We both know that won't happen so, yes, feel free to parade the bodies of Arabs-Moslems who make ignorant choices.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More unsubstantiated BS Israeli talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unsubstantiated?
> What is the solution to an entire group of people wanting to invade your country, take it over and commit murder and genocide, again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still pimping Hamas? This is not a Hamas gig.
Click to expand...

is too.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Slyhunter said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 14 weeks, huh? And Israel is too stupid to come up with a solution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has a solution to Arab-Moslem terrorism. It's called "protecting its borders".
> 
> Incitement to violence, the vile practice of using children as combatants and the behaviors of Arabs-Moslems require solutions that can only come from Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> We both know that won't happen so, yes, feel free to parade the bodies of Arabs-Moslems who make ignorant choices.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More unsubstantiated BS Israeli talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unsubstantiated?
> What is the solution to an entire group of people wanting to invade your country, take it over and commit murder and genocide, again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still pimping Hamas? This is not a Hamas gig.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> is too.
Click to expand...

Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has a solution to Arab-Moslem terrorism. It's called "protecting its borders".
> 
> Incitement to violence, the vile practice of using children as combatants and the behaviors of Arabs-Moslems require solutions that can only come from Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> We both know that won't happen so, yes, feel free to parade the bodies of Arabs-Moslems who make ignorant choices.
> 
> 
> 
> More unsubstantiated BS Israeli talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unsubstantiated?
> What is the solution to an entire group of people wanting to invade your country, take it over and commit murder and genocide, again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still pimping Hamas? This is not a Hamas gig.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> is too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
Click to expand...

When Hamas itself tells the world that it is their gig, here comes Tinfoil to tell the world that they really did not say so.



Tinfoil, a veteran of Hamas or any other Palestinian militia.  Let us give him a very nice Veteran benefit package.

You deserve it, Tinman


----------



## Slyhunter

P F Tinmore said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has a solution to Arab-Moslem terrorism. It's called "protecting its borders".
> 
> Incitement to violence, the vile practice of using children as combatants and the behaviors of Arabs-Moslems require solutions that can only come from Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> We both know that won't happen so, yes, feel free to parade the bodies of Arabs-Moslems who make ignorant choices.
> 
> 
> 
> More unsubstantiated BS Israeli talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unsubstantiated?
> What is the solution to an entire group of people wanting to invade your country, take it over and commit murder and genocide, again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still pimping Hamas? This is not a Hamas gig.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> is too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
Click to expand...

unsubstantiated Palestinian Retort.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> More unsubstantiated BS Israeli talking points.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unsubstantiated?
> What is the solution to an entire group of people wanting to invade your country, take it over and commit murder and genocide, again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still pimping Hamas? This is not a Hamas gig.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> is too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When Hamas itself tells the world that it is their gig, here comes Tinfoil to tell the world that they really did not say so.
> 
> 
> 
> Tinfoil, a veteran of Hamas or any other Palestinian militia.  Let us give him a very nice Veteran benefit package.
> 
> You deserve it, Tinman
Click to expand...

Funny, I don't see any Hamas flags, uniforms, or guns at the protests.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unsubstantiated?
> What is the solution to an entire group of people wanting to invade your country, take it over and commit murder and genocide, again?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you still pimping Hamas? This is not a Hamas gig.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> is too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When Hamas itself tells the world that it is their gig, here comes Tinfoil to tell the world that they really did not say so.
> 
> 
> 
> Tinfoil, a veteran of Hamas or any other Palestinian militia.  Let us give him a very nice Veteran benefit package.
> 
> You deserve it, Tinman
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny, I don't see any Hamas flags, uniforms, or guns at the protests.
Click to expand...


All you see are Islamic terrorist misfits who you worship as heroes.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Funny, I don't see any Hamas flags, uniforms, or guns at the protests.



Of course not.  They are disguised as civilians so that useful idiots like you can pretend that Israel is murdering innocents.  I would LOVE to see all Hamas members in uniform at the "protests".  Let's see them act like a proper and legal military force, in uniform, trying to invade across a legal boundary demarcation onto another's sovereign territory.  Preferrably, after they have removed all the real civilians from the combat zone.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unsubstantiated?
> What is the solution to an entire group of people wanting to invade your country, take it over and commit murder and genocide, again?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you still pimping Hamas? This is not a Hamas gig.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> is too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When Hamas itself tells the world that it is their gig, here comes Tinfoil to tell the world that they really did not say so.
> 
> 
> 
> Tinfoil, a veteran of Hamas or any other Palestinian militia.  Let us give him a very nice Veteran benefit package.
> 
> You deserve it, Tinman
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny, I don't see any Hamas flags, uniforms, or guns at the protests.
Click to expand...


*funny?* 

  what's funny [sick] is......you sticking up for terrorists.  "Hamass & Friends."

_ya sick bastid_.....


----------



## Slyhunter

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unsubstantiated?
> What is the solution to an entire group of people wanting to invade your country, take it over and commit murder and genocide, again?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you still pimping Hamas? This is not a Hamas gig.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> is too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When Hamas itself tells the world that it is their gig, here comes Tinfoil to tell the world that they really did not say so.
> 
> 
> 
> Tinfoil, a veteran of Hamas or any other Palestinian militia.  Let us give him a very nice Veteran benefit package.
> 
> You deserve it, Tinman
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny, I don't see any Hamas flags, uniforms, or guns at the protests.
Click to expand...

Do you actually believe the bullshit you post?
Do you actually think you'll change minds with such stupidity?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Slyhunter said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you still pimping Hamas? This is not a Hamas gig.
> 
> 
> 
> is too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When Hamas itself tells the world that it is their gig, here comes Tinfoil to tell the world that they really did not say so.
> 
> 
> 
> Tinfoil, a veteran of Hamas or any other Palestinian militia.  Let us give him a very nice Veteran benefit package.
> 
> You deserve it, Tinman
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny, I don't see any Hamas flags, uniforms, or guns at the protests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you actually believe the bullshit you post?
> Do you actually think you'll change minds with such stupidity?
Click to expand...


Consider the source. When asked very basic questions there is no response


----------



## P F Tinmore

Slyhunter said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you still pimping Hamas? This is not a Hamas gig.
> 
> 
> 
> is too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When Hamas itself tells the world that it is their gig, here comes Tinfoil to tell the world that they really did not say so.
> 
> 
> 
> Tinfoil, a veteran of Hamas or any other Palestinian militia.  Let us give him a very nice Veteran benefit package.
> 
> You deserve it, Tinman
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny, I don't see any Hamas flags, uniforms, or guns at the protests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you actually believe the bullshit you post?
> Do you actually think you'll change minds with such stupidity?
Click to expand...

There already is a big shift of opinion. that is why Israel and its lackeys are spending hundreds millions to shut people up.

Our News: FBI, Kenneth Marcus, and Anti-Boycott Bills


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> is too.
> 
> 
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When Hamas itself tells the world that it is their gig, here comes Tinfoil to tell the world that they really did not say so.
> 
> 
> 
> Tinfoil, a veteran of Hamas or any other Palestinian militia.  Let us give him a very nice Veteran benefit package.
> 
> You deserve it, Tinman
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny, I don't see any Hamas flags, uniforms, or guns at the protests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you actually believe the bullshit you post?
> Do you actually think you'll change minds with such stupidity?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There already is a big shift of opinion. that is why Israel and its lackeys are spending hundreds millions to shut people up.
> 
> Our News: FBI, Kenneth Marcus, and Anti-Boycott Bills
Click to expand...


Why would israel not want to counter islamic terrorist propaganda?

BDS Umbrella Group Linked to Palestinian Terrorist Organizations


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
Click to expand...


Some of your most compelling contributions.


----------



## Sixties Fan

_According to reports, the kite terror is carried out under the direction of Hamas and with this movement's assistance and encouragement. Hamas's military wing, the 'Izz Al-Din Al-Qassam Brigades, posted on its website a video explaining how to make fire kites, as well as reports praising this activity. Moreover, one of the kite-launching units is called the Bani Al-Zawari unit, after engineer Muhammad Al-Zawari, an Al-Qassam Brigades member who developed drones for Hamas and was killed in Tunisia in 2016. In a July 1 announcement, the unit pledged to increase the launching of fire balloons and stated: "We will not allow this enemy and its usurpers feel safe until our people feel safe in Gaza..."[1]_






Video on Hamas website shows how to make fire kites (alqassam.net, April 24, 2018)





Palestinian in Gaza making a fire kite (alqudsnews.net, May 2, 2018)

_This new form of terror sparked a debate in the Arab press, with Palestinian and Arab writers praising the Palestinian youths who launch the kites. Ignoring the destructive and potentially lethal character of this activity, articles in the Palestinian, Jordanian and Egyptian press describe it as an ingenious and effective form of "non-violent protest" and "popular resistance" that has managed to confound Israel despite the latter's superior technology and military might. The articles also describe the Israeli communities targeted by the kites as "settlements," although they are not in the occupied territories._

(full article online)

Arab Press Praises Gaza Kite Terror Which Causes Heavy Damage, Threatens Lives Of Israeli Civilians


----------



## Slyhunter

Sixties Fan said:


> _According to reports, the kite terror is carried out under the direction of Hamas and with this movement's assistance and encouragement. Hamas's military wing, the 'Izz Al-Din Al-Qassam Brigades, posted on its website a video explaining how to make fire kites, as well as reports praising this activity. Moreover, one of the kite-launching units is called the Bani Al-Zawari unit, after engineer Muhammad Al-Zawari, an Al-Qassam Brigades member who developed drones for Hamas and was killed in Tunisia in 2016. In a July 1 announcement, the unit pledged to increase the launching of fire balloons and stated: "We will not allow this enemy and its usurpers feel safe until our people feel safe in Gaza..."[1]_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Video on Hamas website shows how to make fire kites (alqassam.net, April 24, 2018)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian in Gaza making a fire kite (alqudsnews.net, May 2, 2018)
> 
> _This new form of terror sparked a debate in the Arab press, with Palestinian and Arab writers praising the Palestinian youths who launch the kites. Ignoring the destructive and potentially lethal character of this activity, articles in the Palestinian, Jordanian and Egyptian press describe it as an ingenious and effective form of "non-violent protest" and "popular resistance" that has managed to confound Israel despite the latter's superior technology and military might. The articles also describe the Israeli communities targeted by the kites as "settlements," although they are not in the occupied territories._
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Arab Press Praises Gaza Kite Terror Which Causes Heavy Damage, Threatens Lives Of Israeli Civilians


Israel should only blow them out of the sky if they are blowing Israels way. If they are in calm winds, the wind shifted or whatever, they should allow them to burn Palestinians stuff down.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Notice that there is a cloth covering the helium tank.

My guess is that the helium tanks have markings on them either identifying them as coming from a specific hospital, or with the name of the NGO that donated them for medical purposes.
The people making the video didn't want the world to know that Gazans use helium that was earmarked for medical purposes for terror.

(full article online)

Interesting detail in video of arson balloons ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

A number of terrorists attempted on Friday evening to approach the security fence with the intention of hurling an explosive device at IDF troops adjacent to Karni Crossing in northern Gaza.

The device detonated in Gaza and injured several Palestinians, according to the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit. No injuries to IDF soldiers were reported.

“Hamas uses different means of terror as part of violent riots, exploit the crowds, and endanger Gazans under the cover of the riots,” said the IDF.

Earlier on Friday, dozens of Arabs threw firebombs and rocks at IDF forces in Hevron until their ringleader was arrested in an IDF ambush.

(full article online)

Terrorists harmed by their own explosive


----------



## Sixties Fan

"The reason for the army's non-response lies in two areas," he says. "The first area is negotiations that have been accelerated in recent days on the issue of Gaza as a whole and the prisoners in particular, and the second is the north.

"The army sees the northern sector as the main fighting task, with intensification of forces in the north and growing Iranian presence despite the developing agreements with the rebel organizations."

The source adds that in the four years since Operation Protective Edge deterrence has not weakened, and Israel currently prefers to maintain a quiet border at the request of everyone to try to create an environment that will restore the situation to its previous status, including returning POWs and MIAs.

(full article online)

Security source: 'There are reasons why we don't attack'


----------



## Sixties Fan

There were fields and fields of black. I was with a large group of 300 photographers on a trip to southern Israel to document the destruction caused by flaming kites and balloons.

It seems the world doesn’t know, but for more than three months, fighting fire has been the daily routine of the people in southern Israel where, instead of working the land, they have to watch it burn. Kites and balloons carrying flaming materials are sent from the Gaza strip every day into the nearby Israeli communities, setting fire to everything — entire agricultural fields, nature reserves.

The plants that every winter and spring fill the area with life have been turned into ashes. The dead bodies of animals that weren’t fast enough to escape the flames or the smoke are strewn across the naked, ashy fields and amid the stumps of forests that once used to be green and full of life. This is the reality of daily life across much of southern Israel.

These photos were all taken at Be’eri and Shmurat Karmia near Gaza on Friday, July 6, 2018. Please share these images to let people know what’s going on. #israelonfire





Near Gaza, July 6, 2018 (Adena Levine)


(full article and photos online)

Israel is on fire


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> There were fields and fields of black. I was with a large group of 300 photographers on a trip to southern Israel to document the destruction caused by flaming kites and balloons.
> 
> It seems the world doesn’t know, but for more than three months, fighting fire has been the daily routine of the people in southern Israel where, instead of working the land, they have to watch it burn. Kites and balloons carrying flaming materials are sent from the Gaza strip every day into the nearby Israeli communities, setting fire to everything — entire agricultural fields, nature reserves.
> 
> The plants that every winter and spring fill the area with life have been turned into ashes. The dead bodies of animals that weren’t fast enough to escape the flames or the smoke are strewn across the naked, ashy fields and amid the stumps of forests that once used to be green and full of life. This is the reality of daily life across much of southern Israel.
> 
> These photos were all taken at Be’eri and Shmurat Karmia near Gaza on Friday, July 6, 2018. Please share these images to let people know what’s going on. #israelonfire
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Near Gaza, July 6, 2018 (Adena Levine)
> 
> 
> (full article and photos online)
> 
> Israel is on fire


Israel has had months to formulate a solution. I haven't seen any ideas yet.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were fields and fields of black. I was with a large group of 300 photographers on a trip to southern Israel to document the destruction caused by flaming kites and balloons.
> 
> It seems the world doesn’t know, but for more than three months, fighting fire has been the daily routine of the people in southern Israel where, instead of working the land, they have to watch it burn. Kites and balloons carrying flaming materials are sent from the Gaza strip every day into the nearby Israeli communities, setting fire to everything — entire agricultural fields, nature reserves.
> 
> The plants that every winter and spring fill the area with life have been turned into ashes. The dead bodies of animals that weren’t fast enough to escape the flames or the smoke are strewn across the naked, ashy fields and amid the stumps of forests that once used to be green and full of life. This is the reality of daily life across much of southern Israel.
> 
> These photos were all taken at Be’eri and Shmurat Karmia near Gaza on Friday, July 6, 2018. Please share these images to let people know what’s going on. #israelonfire
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Near Gaza, July 6, 2018 (Adena Levine)
> 
> 
> (full article and photos online)
> 
> Israel is on fire
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has had months to formulate a solution. I haven't seen any ideas yet.
Click to expand...


It is the Arabs-Moslems who are waging war. A solution would be an end to those actions. 

As an alternate, Israel could decide to bring its armed forces to a level to fight the islamist gee-had and end this nonsense in a few days.

There are a couple of obvious solutions to Islamic terrorism. You would prefer the latter as that would mean lots of dead islamo-bodies you could parade around.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were fields and fields of black. I was with a large group of 300 photographers on a trip to southern Israel to document the destruction caused by flaming kites and balloons.
> 
> It seems the world doesn’t know, but for more than three months, fighting fire has been the daily routine of the people in southern Israel where, instead of working the land, they have to watch it burn. Kites and balloons carrying flaming materials are sent from the Gaza strip every day into the nearby Israeli communities, setting fire to everything — entire agricultural fields, nature reserves.
> 
> The plants that every winter and spring fill the area with life have been turned into ashes. The dead bodies of animals that weren’t fast enough to escape the flames or the smoke are strewn across the naked, ashy fields and amid the stumps of forests that once used to be green and full of life. This is the reality of daily life across much of southern Israel.
> 
> These photos were all taken at Be’eri and Shmurat Karmia near Gaza on Friday, July 6, 2018. Please share these images to let people know what’s going on. #israelonfire
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Near Gaza, July 6, 2018 (Adena Levine)
> 
> 
> (full article and photos online)
> 
> Israel is on fire
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has had months to formulate a solution. I haven't seen any ideas yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is the Arabs-Moslems who are waging war. A solution would be an end to those actions.
> 
> As an alternate, Israel could decide to bring its armed forces to a level to fight the islamist gee-had and end this nonsense in a few days.
> 
> There are a couple of obvious solutions to Islamic terrorism. You would prefer the latter as that would mean lots of dead islamo-bodies you could parade around.
Click to expand...

The Palestinians are not waging war. They are protesting war.

Israel's solution? More war.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were fields and fields of black. I was with a large group of 300 photographers on a trip to southern Israel to document the destruction caused by flaming kites and balloons.
> 
> It seems the world doesn’t know, but for more than three months, fighting fire has been the daily routine of the people in southern Israel where, instead of working the land, they have to watch it burn. Kites and balloons carrying flaming materials are sent from the Gaza strip every day into the nearby Israeli communities, setting fire to everything — entire agricultural fields, nature reserves.
> 
> The plants that every winter and spring fill the area with life have been turned into ashes. The dead bodies of animals that weren’t fast enough to escape the flames or the smoke are strewn across the naked, ashy fields and amid the stumps of forests that once used to be green and full of life. This is the reality of daily life across much of southern Israel.
> 
> These photos were all taken at Be’eri and Shmurat Karmia near Gaza on Friday, July 6, 2018. Please share these images to let people know what’s going on. #israelonfire
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Near Gaza, July 6, 2018 (Adena Levine)
> 
> 
> (full article and photos online)
> 
> Israel is on fire
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has had months to formulate a solution. I haven't seen any ideas yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is the Arabs-Moslems who are waging war. A solution would be an end to those actions.
> 
> As an alternate, Israel could decide to bring its armed forces to a level to fight the islamist gee-had and end this nonsense in a few days.
> 
> There are a couple of obvious solutions to Islamic terrorism. You would prefer the latter as that would mean lots of dead islamo-bodies you could parade around.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are not waging war. They are protesting war.
> 
> Israel's solution? More war.
Click to expand...


Actually, it is the Arabs-Moslems who are attacking.

Your denial of the facts is something you need to deal with.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were fields and fields of black. I was with a large group of 300 photographers on a trip to southern Israel to document the destruction caused by flaming kites and balloons.
> 
> It seems the world doesn’t know, but for more than three months, fighting fire has been the daily routine of the people in southern Israel where, instead of working the land, they have to watch it burn. Kites and balloons carrying flaming materials are sent from the Gaza strip every day into the nearby Israeli communities, setting fire to everything — entire agricultural fields, nature reserves.
> 
> The plants that every winter and spring fill the area with life have been turned into ashes. The dead bodies of animals that weren’t fast enough to escape the flames or the smoke are strewn across the naked, ashy fields and amid the stumps of forests that once used to be green and full of life. This is the reality of daily life across much of southern Israel.
> 
> These photos were all taken at Be’eri and Shmurat Karmia near Gaza on Friday, July 6, 2018. Please share these images to let people know what’s going on. #israelonfire
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Near Gaza, July 6, 2018 (Adena Levine)
> 
> 
> (full article and photos online)
> 
> Israel is on fire
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has had months to formulate a solution. I haven't seen any ideas yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is the Arabs-Moslems who are waging war. A solution would be an end to those actions.
> 
> As an alternate, Israel could decide to bring its armed forces to a level to fight the islamist gee-had and end this nonsense in a few days.
> 
> There are a couple of obvious solutions to Islamic terrorism. You would prefer the latter as that would mean lots of dead islamo-bodies you could parade around.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are not waging war. They are protesting war.
> 
> Israel's solution? More war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, it is the Arabs-Moslems who are attacking.
> 
> Your denial of the facts is something you need to deal with.
Click to expand...

Not hard to deny Israel's "facts."


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were fields and fields of black. I was with a large group of 300 photographers on a trip to southern Israel to document the destruction caused by flaming kites and balloons.
> 
> It seems the world doesn’t know, but for more than three months, fighting fire has been the daily routine of the people in southern Israel where, instead of working the land, they have to watch it burn. Kites and balloons carrying flaming materials are sent from the Gaza strip every day into the nearby Israeli communities, setting fire to everything — entire agricultural fields, nature reserves.
> 
> The plants that every winter and spring fill the area with life have been turned into ashes. The dead bodies of animals that weren’t fast enough to escape the flames or the smoke are strewn across the naked, ashy fields and amid the stumps of forests that once used to be green and full of life. This is the reality of daily life across much of southern Israel.
> 
> These photos were all taken at Be’eri and Shmurat Karmia near Gaza on Friday, July 6, 2018. Please share these images to let people know what’s going on. #israelonfire
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Near Gaza, July 6, 2018 (Adena Levine)
> 
> 
> (full article and photos online)
> 
> Israel is on fire
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has had months to formulate a solution. I haven't seen any ideas yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is the Arabs-Moslems who are waging war. A solution would be an end to those actions.
> 
> As an alternate, Israel could decide to bring its armed forces to a level to fight the islamist gee-had and end this nonsense in a few days.
> 
> There are a couple of obvious solutions to Islamic terrorism. You would prefer the latter as that would mean lots of dead islamo-bodies you could parade around.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are not waging war. They are protesting war.
> 
> Israel's solution? More war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, it is the Arabs-Moslems who are attacking.
> 
> Your denial of the facts is something you need to deal with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not hard to deny Israel's "facts."
Click to expand...


You have difficulty understanding that Islamic terrorist groups have identified their minions accepting the _Israeli Sponsored Early Retirement Package for Gee-had Wannabes. _

It’s what Allah wants.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

> You have difficulty understanding that Islamic terrorist groups have identified their minions accepting the _Israeli Sponsored Early Retirement Package for Gee-had Wannabes._
> 
> It’s what Allah wants.


Can I have that in english?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Avigdor Liberman (Yisrael Beytenu) on Monday accepted the suggestion of IDF Chief of Staff Gadi Eizenkot to close the Kerem Shalom crossing between Gaza and Israel.

The closure will not apply to humanitarian aid, including food and medicine, approved on an individual basis by Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories Yoav Mordechai.

The decision comes in response to continued arson terror perpetrated by Gazan terroristsvia incendiary kites and balloons sent from Gaza into Israeli territory, as well as other attempts at terror attacks.

In addition to the closure of Kerem Shalom, the decision was made not to allow the expansion of the fishing zone around Gaza to continue throughout the duration of the season. The fishing zone is usually six naval miles wide, but was temporarily expanded to nine naval miles three months ago.

(full article online)

Raising pressure on Hamas: Israel closes Gaza border crossing


----------



## P F Tinmore

*'March of return' protests in Gaza enter fourth month*

Entering fourth month and Israel too stupid to find a solution.

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *'March of return' protests in Gaza enter fourth month*
> 
> Entering fourth month and Israel too stupid to find a solution.
> 
> **



Islamic terrorists committing acts of war is an issue to be resolved by islamic terrorists.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> *'March of return' protests in Gaza enter fourth month*
> 
> Entering fourth month and Israel too stupid to find a solution.
> 
> **


Killing all of Hamas and Islamic Jihad leaders would be a solution.

But you would not want to see all of your heroes go bye, bye, are you now?

Do you really think Abbas would pay the martyr salaries to his enemies in Gaza?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *'March of return' protests in Gaza enter fourth month*
> 
> Entering fourth month and Israel too stupid to find a solution.
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> Killing all of Hamas and Islamic Jihad leaders would be a solution.
> 
> But you would not want to see all of your heroes go bye, bye, are you now?
> 
> Do you really think Abbas would pay the martyr salaries to his enemies in Gaza?
Click to expand...

Didn't Israel already try that several times? They aren't too smart, are they?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *'March of return' protests in Gaza enter fourth month*
> 
> Entering fourth month and Israel too stupid to find a solution.
> 
> **



What is the solution for a retrograde politico-religious ideology that engenders such hate? 

Hate / self-hate is a phenomenon that can be overcome if you let go of proscriptions within a politico-religious ideology that _engenders_ hate / self hate. inshaAllah you can learn.... but maybe not.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *'March of return' protests in Gaza enter fourth month*
> 
> Entering fourth month and Israel too stupid to find a solution.
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the solution for a retrograde politico-religious ideology that engenders such hate?
> 
> Hate / self-hate is a phenomenon that can be overcome if you let go of proscriptions within a politico-religious ideology that _engenders_ hate / self hate. inshaAllah you can learn.... but maybe not.
Click to expand...

My point.


----------



## Slyhunter

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *'March of return' protests in Gaza enter fourth month*
> 
> Entering fourth month and Israel too stupid to find a solution.
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the solution for a retrograde politico-religious ideology that engenders such hate?
> 
> Hate / self-hate is a phenomenon that can be overcome if you let go of proscriptions within a politico-religious ideology that _engenders_ hate / self hate. inshaAllah you can learn.... but maybe not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My point.
Click to expand...

Closing the border is the beginning of a viable solution. I wouldn't even allow humanitarian aid in if I were them but they're not me. Palestinians want peace they have to stop waging war first.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *'March of return' protests in Gaza enter fourth month*
> 
> Entering fourth month and Israel too stupid to find a solution.
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the solution for a retrograde politico-religious ideology that engenders such hate?
> 
> Hate / self-hate is a phenomenon that can be overcome if you let go of proscriptions within a politico-religious ideology that _engenders_ hate / self hate. inshaAllah you can learn.... but maybe not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My point.
Click to expand...

Obviously, absent a YouTube video, you can't formulate "a point".


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Farah Nabulsi talks Palestine Great Return March, Repression of Non violent protest*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Slyhunter said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *'March of return' protests in Gaza enter fourth month*
> 
> Entering fourth month and Israel too stupid to find a solution.
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the solution for a retrograde politico-religious ideology that engenders such hate?
> 
> Hate / self-hate is a phenomenon that can be overcome if you let go of proscriptions within a politico-religious ideology that _engenders_ hate / self hate. inshaAllah you can learn.... but maybe not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Closing the border is the beginning of a viable solution. I wouldn't even allow humanitarian aid in if I were them but they're not me. Palestinians want peace they have to stop waging war first.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I see how good that is working.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Slyhunter said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *'March of return' protests in Gaza enter fourth month*
> 
> Entering fourth month and Israel too stupid to find a solution.
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the solution for a retrograde politico-religious ideology that engenders such hate?
> 
> Hate / self-hate is a phenomenon that can be overcome if you let go of proscriptions within a politico-religious ideology that _engenders_ hate / self hate. inshaAllah you can learn.... but maybe not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Closing the border is the beginning of a viable solution. I wouldn't even allow humanitarian aid in if I were them but they're not me. Palestinians want peace they have to stop waging war first.
Click to expand...

Tell me,

What would happen if the Palestinians stopped the violence?


----------



## Slyhunter

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *'March of return' protests in Gaza enter fourth month*
> 
> Entering fourth month and Israel too stupid to find a solution.
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the solution for a retrograde politico-religious ideology that engenders such hate?
> 
> Hate / self-hate is a phenomenon that can be overcome if you let go of proscriptions within a politico-religious ideology that _engenders_ hate / self hate. inshaAllah you can learn.... but maybe not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Closing the border is the beginning of a viable solution. I wouldn't even allow humanitarian aid in if I were them but they're not me. Palestinians want peace they have to stop waging war first.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tell me,
> 
> What would happen if the Palestinians stopped the violence?
Click to expand...

In time border restrictions would ease. Once Israel can trust them not to fire rockets into Israel Fishing can return to normal. Trade can resume. Palestinians still won't get everything they want, like uncontrolled access through Israel between Gaza and the West bank. If I were in charge I would insist that they give up one or the other so they don't have to cut Israel in two with their demands. Also Palestinians won't ever get Jerusalem no matter what they do. But peace could resume if they only allow it to.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Farah Nabulsi talks Palestine Great Return March, Repression of Non violent protest*
> 
> **



That "March of gee-had" is working well.

What is the count for dead islamic terrorists?

How's that working out?


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Slyhunter said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *'March of return' protests in Gaza enter fourth month*
> 
> Entering fourth month and Israel too stupid to find a solution.
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the solution for a retrograde politico-religious ideology that engenders such hate?
> 
> Hate / self-hate is a phenomenon that can be overcome if you let go of proscriptions within a politico-religious ideology that _engenders_ hate / self hate. inshaAllah you can learn.... but maybe not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Closing the border is the beginning of a viable solution. I wouldn't even allow humanitarian aid in if I were them but they're not me. Palestinians want peace they have to stop waging war first.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tell me,
> 
> What would happen if the Palestinians stopped the violence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In time border restrictions would ease. Once Israel can trust them not to fire rockets into Israel Fishing can return to normal. Trade can resume. Palestinians still won't get everything they want, like uncontrolled access through Israel between Gaza and the West bank. If I were in charge I would insist that they give up one or the other so they don't have to cut Israel in two with their demands. Also Palestinians won't ever get Jerusalem no matter what they do. But peace could resume if they only allow it to.
Click to expand...

Wonder why the Palestinians would not take that? Sounds like - I mean you sound like a dick and that's not anything you're offering but "partial cancelletion of Israel's own crimes and mustakes" - but why would an ordinary palestinian not accept that?


----------



## Slyhunter

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is the solution for a retrograde politico-religious ideology that engenders such hate?
> 
> Hate / self-hate is a phenomenon that can be overcome if you let go of proscriptions within a politico-religious ideology that _engenders_ hate / self hate. inshaAllah you can learn.... but maybe not.
> 
> 
> 
> My point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Closing the border is the beginning of a viable solution. I wouldn't even allow humanitarian aid in if I were them but they're not me. Palestinians want peace they have to stop waging war first.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tell me,
> 
> What would happen if the Palestinians stopped the violence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In time border restrictions would ease. Once Israel can trust them not to fire rockets into Israel Fishing can return to normal. Trade can resume. Palestinians still won't get everything they want, like uncontrolled access through Israel between Gaza and the West bank. If I were in charge I would insist that they give up one or the other so they don't have to cut Israel in two with their demands. Also Palestinians won't ever get Jerusalem no matter what they do. But peace could resume if they only allow it to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wonder why the Palestinians would not take that? Sounds like - I mean you sound like a dick and that's not anything you're offering but "partial cancelletion of Israel's own crimes and mustakes" - but why would an ordinary palestinian not accept that?
Click to expand...

I would bomb the shit out of Gaza and the West Bank until they surrendered.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Slyhunter said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> My point.
> 
> 
> 
> Closing the border is the beginning of a viable solution. I wouldn't even allow humanitarian aid in if I were them but they're not me. Palestinians want peace they have to stop waging war first.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tell me,
> 
> What would happen if the Palestinians stopped the violence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In time border restrictions would ease. Once Israel can trust them not to fire rockets into Israel Fishing can return to normal. Trade can resume. Palestinians still won't get everything they want, like uncontrolled access through Israel between Gaza and the West bank. If I were in charge I would insist that they give up one or the other so they don't have to cut Israel in two with their demands. Also Palestinians won't ever get Jerusalem no matter what they do. But peace could resume if they only allow it to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wonder why the Palestinians would not take that? Sounds like - I mean you sound like a dick and that's not anything you're offering but "partial cancelletion of Israel's own crimes and mustakes" - but why would an ordinary palestinian not accept that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would bomb the shit out of Gaza and the West Bank until they surrendered.
Click to expand...

That is what Israel is doing?

Why do you hate Palestinians?


----------



## Slyhunter

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Closing the border is the beginning of a viable solution. I wouldn't even allow humanitarian aid in if I were them but they're not me. Palestinians want peace they have to stop waging war first.
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me,
> 
> What would happen if the Palestinians stopped the violence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In time border restrictions would ease. Once Israel can trust them not to fire rockets into Israel Fishing can return to normal. Trade can resume. Palestinians still won't get everything they want, like uncontrolled access through Israel between Gaza and the West bank. If I were in charge I would insist that they give up one or the other so they don't have to cut Israel in two with their demands. Also Palestinians won't ever get Jerusalem no matter what they do. But peace could resume if they only allow it to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wonder why the Palestinians would not take that? Sounds like - I mean you sound like a dick and that's not anything you're offering but "partial cancelletion of Israel's own crimes and mustakes" - but why would an ordinary palestinian not accept that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would bomb the shit out of Gaza and the West Bank until they surrendered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is what Israel is doing?
> 
> Why do you hate Palestinians?
Click to expand...

No it isn't. They are trying to not hit civilians. They are trying targeted strikes. I would just level the entire area.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Slyhunter said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me,
> 
> What would happen if the Palestinians stopped the violence?
> 
> 
> 
> In time border restrictions would ease. Once Israel can trust them not to fire rockets into Israel Fishing can return to normal. Trade can resume. Palestinians still won't get everything they want, like uncontrolled access through Israel between Gaza and the West bank. If I were in charge I would insist that they give up one or the other so they don't have to cut Israel in two with their demands. Also Palestinians won't ever get Jerusalem no matter what they do. But peace could resume if they only allow it to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wonder why the Palestinians would not take that? Sounds like - I mean you sound like a dick and that's not anything you're offering but "partial cancelletion of Israel's own crimes and mustakes" - but why would an ordinary palestinian not accept that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would bomb the shit out of Gaza and the West Bank until they surrendered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is what Israel is doing?
> 
> Why do you hate Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No it isn't. They are trying to not hit civilians. They are trying targeted strikes. I would just level the entire area.
Click to expand...

I don't know if they would honestly say to themselves that they try not to hit civilians. I have no reason to believe they are trying to do that. But why on earth would you support carpet bombing ordinary people living their life?


----------



## Slyhunter

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> In time border restrictions would ease. Once Israel can trust them not to fire rockets into Israel Fishing can return to normal. Trade can resume. Palestinians still won't get everything they want, like uncontrolled access through Israel between Gaza and the West bank. If I were in charge I would insist that they give up one or the other so they don't have to cut Israel in two with their demands. Also Palestinians won't ever get Jerusalem no matter what they do. But peace could resume if they only allow it to.
> 
> 
> 
> Wonder why the Palestinians would not take that? Sounds like - I mean you sound like a dick and that's not anything you're offering but "partial cancelletion of Israel's own crimes and mustakes" - but why would an ordinary palestinian not accept that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would bomb the shit out of Gaza and the West Bank until they surrendered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is what Israel is doing?
> 
> Why do you hate Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No it isn't. They are trying to not hit civilians. They are trying targeted strikes. I would just level the entire area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know if they would honestly say to themselves that they try not to hit civilians. I have no reason to believe they are trying to do that. But why on earth would you support carpet bombing ordinary people living their life?
Click to expand...

Because they are Hamas's enablers.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Slyhunter said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wonder why the Palestinians would not take that? Sounds like - I mean you sound like a dick and that's not anything you're offering but "partial cancelletion of Israel's own crimes and mustakes" - but why would an ordinary palestinian not accept that?
> 
> 
> 
> I would bomb the shit out of Gaza and the West Bank until they surrendered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is what Israel is doing?
> 
> Why do you hate Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No it isn't. They are trying to not hit civilians. They are trying targeted strikes. I would just level the entire area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know if they would honestly say to themselves that they try not to hit civilians. I have no reason to believe they are trying to do that. But why on earth would you support carpet bombing ordinary people living their life?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because they are Hamas's enablers.
Click to expand...

I would say it the other way around. The Palestinians chose Hamas to survive. But you can hardly blame children of that. Tgere are plenty of neutral Palestinians who just want to live, somehow.


----------



## Shusha

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Tell me,
> 
> What would happen if the Palestinians stopped the violence?



With respect to Gaza, in particular?

That would depend on what ELSE they did.  IF they renounced all forms of violence against Israel, AND actually followed through on policing their own extremists elements, AND accepted Israel's help with same AND accepted Israel in whatever way Israel chooses to define itself (which is what self-determination means) AND developed their own economy...

They could end up with a jewel of a beach destination country with a thriving tourist economy and a pretty solid agricultural economy.  They could also tap into some industrial and manufacturing needs. If they put some serious effort into it they might also be able to provide an excellent seaport and transportation system to the rest of the ME.  They could sit around their five-star hotels and grow fat and happy. 

The real question is why they haven't done this already.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Shusha said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me,
> 
> What would happen if the Palestinians stopped the violence?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> accepted Israel in whatever way Israel chooses to define itself.
Click to expand...


----------



## Shusha

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me,
> 
> What would happen if the Palestinians stopped the violence?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> accepted Israel in whatever way Israel chooses to define itself.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


That is what self-determination IS.  The peoples get to determine.  Once again the fundamental CAUSE of the problem is that people reject basic human rights for the Jewish people.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Shusha said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me,
> 
> What would happen if the Palestinians stopped the violence?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> accepted Israel in whatever way Israel chooses to define itself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is what self-determination IS.  The peoples get to determine.  Once again the fundamental CAUSE of the problem is that people reject basic human rights for the Jewish people.
Click to expand...

I know - i have it. When i go to the grocery i am always absolutely determined to buy low fat milk - and if they have none I will _not take _skimmed milk. Never!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me,
> 
> What would happen if the Palestinians stopped the violence?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> accepted Israel in whatever way Israel chooses to define itself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is what self-determination IS.  The peoples get to determine.  Once again the fundamental CAUSE of the problem is that people reject basic human rights for the Jewish people.
Click to expand...

OK, but 3/4 of the People living in Gaza are refugees. They have their concerns also.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me,
> 
> What would happen if the Palestinians stopped the violence?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> accepted Israel in whatever way Israel chooses to define itself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is what self-determination IS.  The peoples get to determine.  Once again the fundamental CAUSE of the problem is that people reject basic human rights for the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but 3/4 of the People living in Gaza are refugees. They have their concerns also.
Click to expand...


Not refugees but "Palestinian refuges".

Whole different category , don't confuse eternal welfare frauds with real refugees.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me,
> 
> What would happen if the Palestinians stopped the violence?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> accepted Israel in whatever way Israel chooses to define itself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is what self-determination IS.  The peoples get to determine.  Once again the fundamental CAUSE of the problem is that people reject basic human rights for the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but 3/4 of the People living in Gaza are refugees. They have their concerns also.
Click to expand...

Ok? 

Wtf..


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me,
> 
> What would happen if the Palestinians stopped the violence?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> accepted Israel in whatever way Israel chooses to define itself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is what self-determination IS.  The peoples get to determine.  Once again the fundamental CAUSE of the problem is that people reject basic human rights for the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but 3/4 of the People living in Gaza are refugees. They have their concerns also.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not refugees but "Palestinian refuges".
> 
> Whole different category , don't confuse eternal welfare frauds with real refugees.
Click to expand...

Be spesific. I don't want to confuse those two. What are the differences?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> OK, but 3/4 of the People living in Gaza are refugees. They have their concerns also.



They are not refugees as they are not outside their home country, there is no well-founded fear of persecution within their home country, they can avail themselves of the protection of their government.  And refugee status is not passed generationly.

I'm sure they have concerns.  And I'm sure the one you want to address is the "right to return".  It is absolutely impossible to grant a widespread right of return to millions of descendants of internally displaced persons because it undermines the INTENT of a peaceful solution which is self-determination for BOTH peoples.


----------



## Shusha

Definition of refugee in IL:

_Refugees are a special class of migrants who under international law deserve specific protection by their host state. According to Article 1 of the 1951 UN Convention, as modified by the 1967 Protocol, a refugee is defined as a person who ‘owing to well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country.’ This definition implies that several qualifying conditions apply to be considered a refugee: (1) presence outside home country; (2) well-founded fear of persecution (being at risk of harm is insufficient reason in the absence of discriminatory persecution); (3) incapacity to enjoy the protection of one’s own state from the persecution feared. The definition of refugees was actually intended to exclude internally displaced persons, economic migrants, victims of natural disasters, and persons fleeing violent conflict but not subject to discrimination amounting to persecution._
_
_


----------



## rylah

Ecocertifmrl said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> accepted Israel in whatever way Israel chooses to define itself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is what self-determination IS.  The peoples get to determine.  Once again the fundamental CAUSE of the problem is that people reject basic human rights for the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but 3/4 of the People living in Gaza are refugees. They have their concerns also.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not refugees but "Palestinian refuges".
> 
> Whole different category , don't confuse eternal welfare frauds with real refugees.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Be spesific. I don't want to confuse those two. What are the differences?
Click to expand...


People who live in a land they call their "homeland" are not refugees.
Either Gaza is not in Palestine or they are not Palestinians.
Can't have it both ways.

Thus this special status invented exclusively for Palestinian Arabs is a  business fraud.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

rylah said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is what self-determination IS.  The peoples get to determine.  Once again the fundamental CAUSE of the problem is that people reject basic human rights for the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but 3/4 of the People living in Gaza are refugees. They have their concerns also.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not refugees but "Palestinian refuges".
> 
> Whole different category , don't confuse eternal welfare frauds with real refugees.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Be spesific. I don't want to confuse those two. What are the differences?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People who live in a land they call their "homeland" are not refugees
Click to expand...

That is not necessarily true. The word _refugee _carries no demand of how far one has to be from their original place.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Shusha said:


> It is absolutely impossible to grant a widespread right of return to millions of descendants of internally displaced persons because it undermines the INTENT of a peaceful solution which is self-determination for BOTH peoples.









How convenient.


----------



## rylah

Ecocertifmrl said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is what self-determination IS.  The peoples get to determine.  Once again the fundamental CAUSE of the problem is that people reject basic human rights for the Jewish people.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but 3/4 of the People living in Gaza are refugees. They have their concerns also.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not refugees but "Palestinian refuges".
> 
> Whole different category , don't confuse eternal welfare frauds with real refugees.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Be spesific. I don't want to confuse those two. What are the differences?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People who live in a land they call their "homeland" are not refugees
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not necessarily true. The word _refugee _carries no demand of how far one has to be from their original place.
Click to expand...


But You cannot claim to live in Your homeland and be a refugee at the same time.
You're either home or a refugee from a different state.

Basically You're saying that Gazans are foreigners to Palestine.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

rylah said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but 3/4 of the People living in Gaza are refugees. They have their concerns also.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not refugees but "Palestinian refuges".
> 
> Whole different category , don't confuse eternal welfare frauds with real refugees.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Be spesific. I don't want to confuse those two. What are the differences?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People who live in a land they call their "homeland" are not refugees
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not necessarily true. The word _refugee _carries no demand of how far one has to be from their original place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But You cannot claim to live in Your homeland and be a refugee at the same time.
> You're either home or a refugee from a different state.
Click to expand...

or ..... OR...you are refugee from the SAME state. Think about THAT.


----------



## Shusha

or ..... OR...you are refugee from the SAME state. Think about THAT.[/QUOTE]

That would be an "internally displaced person".  Entirely different in IHL.  Refugee laws were specifically designed to exclude internally displaced persons and people displaced due to conflict.  See my previous post.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Shusha said:


> or ..... OR...you are refugee from the SAME state. Think about THAT.



That would be an "internally displaced person".[/QUOTE]A refugee.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Earlier today, an IDF aircraft fired near a group of Gazans who were launching arson balloons in the southern Gaza Strip.

In addition, IDF troops detected a suspect who attempted to cross the security fence from the southern Gaza Strip in order to sabotage security infrastructure and attack IDF troops. The suspect was caught with combustible materials and a metal cutter and was transferred to security forces for further questioning.

(full article online)

IDF fires on balloon arsonists, captures infiltrator


----------



## Sixties Fan

For example, the effectiveness of Israel’s Iron Dome system notwithstanding, Hamas’s rocket/missile arsenal constrains Israel’s daily operational routine as IDF commanders must consider its possible employment in various confrontational scenarios. It is no secret that the balance of costs, risks, and opportunities that accompanies the decision to act in Gaza has become infinitely more complex since the disengagement.

Nor should it be forgotten that a border fence can also benefit Hamas. The fence does indeed help Israel in its effort to prevent hostile infiltration of its territory; but it also enables Hamas to grow stronger and to organize safely under its protective wing. Indeed, under the auspices of the spatial separation, Hamas has managed to build a regular military force comprising battalions and brigades, armed with a large below-ground rocket/missile arsenal and supported by an effective command and control system. None of this would be possible without the full realization of the Israeli leftwing concept of “they are there and we are here.” This is the source of the glaring difference between Hamas’s formidable military position in Gaza and its difficulties in building its strength in the West Bank.

(full article online)

The Illusion of Israeli-Palestinian Spatial Separation


----------



## Sixties Fan

One sentence in a page-one article of _Haaretz's_'s English print edition yesterday packed in multiple errors. Headlined "Netanyahu: Israel to close commercial Gaza crossing over airborne firebombs," the article erred:

"Palestinians began flying the devices into Israel after many weeks of protests at the Gaza-Israel border in which over 130 demonstrators were killed by Israel Defense Forces sharpshooters and some 4,000 were wounded by live fire."


This sentence is wrong on multiple counts.

First, as _Haaretz _itself has previously reported, the kite attacks began less than two weeks after the "March of Return" events began on March 30, not after "many weeks of protests at the Gaza-Israel border." As Almog Ben Zikri reported April 16 ("Gazans Fly Firebombs Tied to Kites Into Israel, Sparking Several Blazes"):

(full article online)

CAMERA Snapshots: One <I>Haaretz</i> Page-One Sentence, Lots of Errors


----------



## Sixties Fan

The vast majority of the Palestinians believe that the so-called March of Return, the violent Hamas-led riots on Israel’s border with Gaza, achieved nothing.

Only 21 percent of the Palestinians believe the March of Return achieved most of its goals, while 74 percent believe it has not achieved its goals or achieved little, according to a poll conducted by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research at the end of last month.

The March of Return was supposedly an attempt to break the “Israeli blockade.” After three and a half months of terrorism, nothing has changed.

It is worth noting that the Palestinian public is evenly divided in its assessment of who is the driving force behind the riots. Some think it is the Hamas terror organization and others think it is civil society organizations.

Gazans, however, show no hesitancy on this as they strongly believe that it is indeed Hamas that stands behind the initiation and organization of the March of Return. They are present at the scene of the violence, and therefore know the truth.

The truth is that the supposedly peaceful protests were violent riots, promoted by Hamas and executed mostly by terrorists.

(full article online)

Palestinian Poll: Hamas-Led March of Return Achieved Nothing


----------



## Sixties Fan

At least 40 fires raged in Gaza-adjacent communities in southern Israel on Wednesday as a result of burning kites and balloons launched from Gaza over the border fence as part of ongoing protests organized by Hamas, bringing the total number of fires set by the group's new tactic in the past three months to over 1,000.

The fires have laid waste to over 8,200 acres of forest and agricultural land, with damage totaling tens of millions of dollars. Experts say it will take at least 15 years to rehabilitate the vegetation and wildlife in the scorched areas.


(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/2018/07/...t-with-1000-fires-in-3-months-of-gaza-terror/


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Kill the Hamas leaders, already and save the people in Gaza  ]

Hamas terror group planning to step up arson attacks on Israel, replace balloons and kites carrying incendiary devices with armed drones.

(full article online)

Report: Hamas planning drone attacks deep in Israeli territory


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Kill the Hamas leaders, already and save the people in Gaza  ]
> 
> Hamas terror group planning to step up arson attacks on Israel, replace balloons and kites carrying incendiary devices with armed drones.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Report: Hamas planning drone attacks deep in Israeli territory


Wait. Israel doesnt have a defined territory!


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ If it is Friday, it must be.........]

“Hamas continues to send civilians to the security fence, endangering their lives by using them as a cover for terror acts. The IDF will not allow security infrastructure to be damaged, and will operate to prevent violent rioters and terrorists from doing so,” it added.

Since March 30, Arabs have been holding weekly violent riots along the Gaza border and have been using kites and balloons with explosives attached in order to set fire to Israeli property.

The thousands of balloons and kites carrying incendiary and makeshift explosive devices have sparked hundreds of fires and caused millions of dollars in property damage inside Israel.

(full article online)

Gaza health ministry claims teen killed in violent riots


The so-called “March of the Return” protests have been openly encouraged by Gaza’s Hamas terrorist rulers.


----------



## Slyhunter

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Kill the Hamas leaders, already and save the people in Gaza  ]
> 
> Hamas terror group planning to step up arson attacks on Israel, replace balloons and kites carrying incendiary devices with armed drones.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Report: Hamas planning drone attacks deep in Israeli territory
> 
> 
> 
> Wait. Israel doesnt have a defined territory!
Click to expand...

Yeah they do just follow the fence line.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Slyhunter said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Kill the Hamas leaders, already and save the people in Gaza  ]
> 
> Hamas terror group planning to step up arson attacks on Israel, replace balloons and kites carrying incendiary devices with armed drones.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Report: Hamas planning drone attacks deep in Israeli territory
> 
> 
> 
> Wait. Israel doesnt have a defined territory!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah they do just follow the fence line.
Click to expand...

Which fence?


----------



## Slyhunter

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Kill the Hamas leaders, already and save the people in Gaza  ]
> 
> Hamas terror group planning to step up arson attacks on Israel, replace balloons and kites carrying incendiary devices with armed drones.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Report: Hamas planning drone attacks deep in Israeli territory
> 
> 
> 
> Wait. Israel doesnt have a defined territory!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah they do just follow the fence line.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which fence?
Click to expand...

The fence on the border.


----------



## member

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *'March of return' protests in Gaza enter fourth month*
> 
> Entering fourth month and Israel too stupid to find a solution.
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the solution for a retrograde politico-religious ideology that engenders such hate?
> 
> Hate / self-hate is a phenomenon that can be overcome if you let go of proscriptions within a politico-religious ideology that _engenders_ hate / self hate. inshaAllah you can learn.... but maybe not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Closing the border is the beginning of a viable solution. I wouldn't even allow humanitarian aid in if I were them but they're not me. Palestinians want peace they have to stop waging war first.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tell me,
> 
> What would happen if the Palestinians stopped the violence?
Click to expand...












​





​











​
















​


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Slyhunter said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Kill the Hamas leaders, already and save the people in Gaza  ]
> 
> Hamas terror group planning to step up arson attacks on Israel, replace balloons and kites carrying incendiary devices with armed drones.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Report: Hamas planning drone attacks deep in Israeli territory
> 
> 
> 
> Wait. Israel doesnt have a defined territory!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah they do just follow the fence line.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which fence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fence on the border.
Click to expand...

What about the fences in Palestina?


----------



## Slyhunter

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Kill the Hamas leaders, already and save the people in Gaza  ]
> 
> Hamas terror group planning to step up arson attacks on Israel, replace balloons and kites carrying incendiary devices with armed drones.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Report: Hamas planning drone attacks deep in Israeli territory
> 
> 
> 
> Wait. Israel doesnt have a defined territory!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah they do just follow the fence line.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which fence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fence on the border.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What about the fences in Palestina?
Click to expand...

Everyone there knows which fences will get you shot for crossing.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Slyhunter said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wait. Israel doesnt have a defined territory!
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah they do just follow the fence line.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which fence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fence on the border.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What about the fences in Palestina?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everyone there knows which fences will get you shot for crossing.
Click to expand...

Everyone non-jew knows they can get shot by eny crossing.


----------



## Hollie

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah they do just follow the fence line.
> 
> 
> 
> Which fence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fence on the border.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What about the fences in Palestina?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everyone there knows which fences will get you shot for crossing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everyone non-jew knows they can get shot by eny crossing.
Click to expand...


Could you re-type that in English human?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israeli aircraft on Saturday attacked more than 40 targets in the Gaza Strip in the most extensive daytime assault since 2014’s Operation Protective Edge as Palestinian terror groups fired repeated salvos of rockets and mortars into Israel.

The surge in violence intensified after midnight Friday-Saturday as the Israel Defense Forces hit an attack tunnel and Hamas training bases in Gaza in response to the moderate wounding of an IDF officer by a hand-grenade thrown during a border riot on Friday.

(full article online)

As dozens of rockets hit Israel, IDF pounds Gaza in heaviest strikes since 2014


----------



## Sixties Fan

A Magen David Adom (MDA) paramedic who treated the family said the father, 50, suffered shrapnel wounds to his forehead and legs, and the mother, 45, suffered shrapnel wounds to her legs. The family's 15-year-old daughter suffered wounds to her face, and her 14-year-old sister suffered wounds to her legs.

All of the victims were transferred to Ashkelon's Barzilai Hospital.

A second rocket landed near a synagogue in the city, but did not cause injuries.

Meanwhile, the IDF confirmed that it attacked a building in Gaza City which served as a Hamas training base. Beneath the building, Hamas had dug a tunnel, which was used for underground training exercises.

All of the building's residents received prior warning of the attack.

"This attack is one example of the IDF's intelligence and operational capabilities," an IDF spokesman said.

Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu met on Saturday with Defense Minister Avigdor Liberman (Yisrael Beytenu), IDF Chief of Staff Gadi Eizenkot, and other senior defense officials. According to once source, "The decision to attack was made due to violence from Gaza. Israel will increase the tempo as necessary. Our attack on Hamas was the strongest since [2014's] Operation Protective Edge."

Since Friday night, over 100 rockets and mortars were fired at Israel from Gaza, with Israel's Iron Dome missile defense system shot down at least 20. Other than damage to a chicken coop, no other damage was caused and no one was injured.

Incendiary kites and balloons fired from Gaza caused fifteen fires on Saturday, including two in a forest. All of the fires are now under control.

(full article online)

Sderot: Family injured when rocket hits their home


----------



## Sixties Fan

Netanyahu vows no end to Gaza strikes until Hamas ‘gets the message’


----------



## Sixties Fan

This is how the last 24 hours for Israelis living in southern Israel looked like.


----------



## rylah

Sixties Fan said:


> This is how the last 24 hours for Israelis living in southern Israel looked like.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

rylah said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is how the last 24 hours for Israelis living in southern Israel looked like.
Click to expand...

Is that related to the fairytale you're writing. An additional chapter to the Israel's thus far history.


----------



## Sixties Fan

"The structure that we attacked was once a public building and they turned it into a training structure, including the offensive tunnel below," he said.

"It's challenging because the enemy is advancing and we need to develop capabilities that will allow us to do it always with the aim of avoiding harm to the uninvolved," the official said. "At the end of the week, it was defined for us to harm Hamas' infrastructure and not terrorist operatives."

"We did not use all the force during the weekend, we are very prepared. We have dozens of targets and planned armament, with precise intelligence and in very good coordination with Southern Command," the official said.

The official noted that in addition to the aforementioned targets, many other targets were attacked, such as military camps, command offices, and targets that harmed Hamas' military echelon and its buildup.

(full article online)

Senior air force official: 'We attacked infrastructure - not terrorists'


----------



## Sixties Fan

Illustrative: Gazans load balloons with flammable material to be flown toward Israel, at the Israel-Gaza border in al-Bureij, central Gaza Strip on June 14, 2018. (AFP/Mahmud Hams)

The IDF on Sunday said it fired at a group of Palestinians flying incendiary balloons into southern Israel from the northern Gaza Strip.

Reports in Palestinian media said one person was injured by the Israeli drone strike in the Beit Hanoun area.


(full article online)

Israel strikes Hamas cell launching arson kites during Gaza ceasefire


----------



## Sixties Fan

But here are three photos, showing rocket fire that sure seems to be coming from the base of a mosque's minaret in Gaza City:

Gazans complain about Israel damaging a mosque. But they are shooting rockets from next to mosques! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  Hudna, oh, Hudna, how long do you last ?  ]

Hamas terror group leader Ismail Haniyeh vowed on Sunday that armed factions in the Gaza Strip would retaliate for any further Israeli airstrikes in the coastal enclave.

His comments came hours after a fragile ceasefire between Israel and Hamas went into effect, following the most severe exchange of fire between Israel and Hamas since the 2014 war.

(full article online)

Hamas leader vows response to any further Israeli attacks


----------



## Sixties Fan

The IDF is continuing to strike terrorist squads launching firebomb balloons at Israel from Gaza, with fighter pilots working overtime and the military using other means as well.

An air strike targeted one such terror cell a few minutes before 6 pm Sunday as it was launching the incendiary balloons from northern Gaza.

(full article online)

Israeli Air Force Upgrades Campaign Against Arson Balloon Cells


----------



## Sixties Fan

Contrary to claims by Hamas, Israel made no deal whatsoever to allow any “gradual” lessening of arson attacks by Gaza terrorists against Israel in the ceasefire agreement reached this weekend.

(full article online)

Ceasefire Means No Attacks At All, Says Netanyahu – IDF Reinforces Iron Dome Batteries in Central, Southern Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF counters Hamas ‘fake news’ with Arabic-language video


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Contrary to claims by Hamas, Israel made no deal whatsoever to allow any “gradual” lessening of arson attacks by Gaza terrorists against Israel in the ceasefire agreement reached this weekend.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Ceasefire Means No Attacks At All, Says Netanyahu – IDF Reinforces Iron Dome Batteries in Central, Southern Israel


Does that mean that Israel will stop shooting farmers and fishers?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Contrary to claims by Hamas, Israel made no deal whatsoever to allow any “gradual” lessening of arson attacks by Gaza terrorists against Israel in the ceasefire agreement reached this weekend.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Ceasefire Means No Attacks At All, Says Netanyahu – IDF Reinforces Iron Dome Batteries in Central, Southern Israel
> 
> 
> 
> Does that mean that Israel will stop shooting farmers and fishers?
Click to expand...


Israel does not shoot farmers and fishers.  They shoot people who might be smuggling weapons or trying to harm Israelis and who do not comply with instructions in the context of terrorism and hostile activity from an elected terrorist government and the people of Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Contrary to claims by Hamas, Israel made no deal whatsoever to allow any “gradual” lessening of arson attacks by Gaza terrorists against Israel in the ceasefire agreement reached this weekend.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Ceasefire Means No Attacks At All, Says Netanyahu – IDF Reinforces Iron Dome Batteries in Central, Southern Israel
> 
> 
> 
> Does that mean that Israel will stop shooting farmers and fishers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel does not shoot farmers and fishers.  They shoot people who might be smuggling weapons or trying to harm Israelis and who do not comply with instructions in the context of terrorism and hostile activity from an elected terrorist government and the people of Gaza.
Click to expand...

I didn't think so.

*Liars!*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Published on Jul 13, 2018


----------



## Hollie

State of islsmic Terrorist’istan


----------



## Sixties Fan

So, to summarize: 


The ongoing Hamas kite bomb campaign, which cause up to 20 fires in Israel a day, continued.
Ongoing, Hamas inspired, Palestinian violence at the Gaza border continued on Friday, and included a grenade attack which injured an Israeli soldier.
IAF launches a limited number of attacks on Hamas military positions in response to the grenade attack.
Hamas and Islamic Jihad launched nearly 200 rockets at Israeli communities along the south, injuring three civilians.
IAF launch over 40 attacks on Gaza military positions, including a direct hit on a Hamas battalion command in northern Gaza, which was completely destroyed – though fighters had evacuated the position and nobody was killed. 
Here’s a quick run down of the headlines.  Some failed to convey the accurate sequence of events, whilst others actually ignored entirely the Gaza terror attacks which precipitated the violence. 

(full article online)

British media pummel Israel with some of the most biased headlines since 2014


----------



## Sixties Fan

Thus, by omitting the fact that the delay in Mekhael’s case is on the Palestinian side in the context of a story based on the false charge that Israel “has turned down or left unanswered more than half the applications,” Margalit falsely attributes the delay to Israel.







In short, far from “Fighting fake stories with real ones,” as a _New Yorker_ advertising banner which appears at times on top of the severely flawed Gaza cancer patient article boasts, the esteemed publication is churning out fake stories of its own. CAMERA has contacted editors to request corrections on these points. Stay tuned for an update.

(full article online )

After New Yorker Correction, New Falsehoods Uncovered in Gaza Cancer Patients Article | CAMERA


----------



## Sixties Fan

The IDF issued a statement that during violent riots, "forces identified an attempt to breach the security fence and infiltrate into Israel from the northern Gaza Strip and fired to stop the attempt."

It is clear that the others in the area knew the unwritten rule that they can approach but not climb the fence. While the others make noises and wave flags next to the fence, only Halas purposefully strides to the fence. At 0:25, a friend seems to warn him and tries to pull him away from the fence, but Halas insists while the friend runs away, as do most of the others, apparently because of warning shots. Halas then approaches the fence again at 0:40 and attempts to climb it, and the adults in the area do not try to stop him. He is shot within two seconds.

(full article online)

Video of Gaza teen being shot shows that he was trying to climb the fence despite warning ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> So, to summarize:
> 
> 
> The ongoing Hamas kite bomb campaign, which cause up to 20 fires in Israel a day, continued.
> Ongoing, Hamas inspired, Palestinian violence at the Gaza border continued on Friday, and included a grenade attack which injured an Israeli soldier.
> IAF launches a limited number of attacks on Hamas military positions in response to the grenade attack.
> Hamas and Islamic Jihad launched nearly 200 rockets at Israeli communities along the south, injuring three civilians.
> IAF launch over 40 attacks on Gaza military positions, including a direct hit on a Hamas battalion command in northern Gaza, which was completely destroyed – though fighters had evacuated the position and nobody was killed.
> Here’s a quick run down of the headlines.  Some failed to convey the accurate sequence of events, whilst others actually ignored entirely the Gaza terror attacks which precipitated the violence.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> British media pummel Israel with some of the most biased headlines since 2014



From the end of article:

_So, headlines which read “Israel pummels Gaza with heaviest bombardment since 2014” could just as easily have read: “Gaza pummels Israel with heaviest bombardment since 2014”.

The broader dynamic at play is the consistent failure of journalists and their editors to frame articles in a manner which focuses primarily on terrorist violence and evokes sympathy for Israeli terror victims and the southern communities on the receiving end of such attacks. ... It also operates from an assumption that Palestinians lack agency and that the only party in the conflict that matters is Israel._


----------



## Sixties Fan

Falcon found tied to a rope with flammable materials near the Gaza border, hanging from a tree 

Israel’s Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories reports that a falcon attached to a rope with flammable material was found Monday near the Gaza Strip. More than 1,000 arson fires have been caused by incendiary materials flown from Gaza into Israel. “Apparently it’s not enough to destroy nature with kites; now falcons are being used for terror as well,” the COGAT tweeted.

(full article online)

Gazans Torture Falcons to Carry Flames to Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

This Ongoing War: A Blog: 16-Jul-18: What do the Palestinian Arabs want? What do they believe? What do they think?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*What Life Is Like on Gaza’s Side of the Fence | Times Documentaries*

**


----------



## Hollie

Gaza’istan and wealth.


----------



## Sixties Fan

No one hurt as kids are rushed away from flames; teacher says, 'We were saved;' Second incendiary device to hit school in a day

(full article online)

Flaming balloon from Gaza lands in preschool near children at play


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Gaza’istan and wealth.


All that without "a state." WOW!


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza’istan and wealth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that without "a state." WOW!
Click to expand...


All with a dedicated welfare fraud entitlement.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel’s political leadership has reportedly instructed the army to prepare for a military offensive in the Gaza Strip, to be initiated if the launching of incendiary devices from the Hamas-run coastal enclave into Israeli territory continues.

According to a Channel 10 news report Tuesday, Israel has set Friday as a deadline for the flaming kite and balloon launches to cease. If this does not happen, Israel may decide it has no choice but to embark on a military campaign in the Strip, the report said.

Israel sent a similar message to Hamas through Egyptian intelligence, Channel 10 reported, with the Palestinian terror group in turn indicating its forces will work to stop the launching of burning materials by Friday.

(full article online)

Army told to prepare for large-scale military operation in Gaza — report


----------



## Hollie

So, I wonder if Israel will finally decide that islamic terrorist attacks have to be dealt with. 
*


Flying firebomb from Gaza lands in Israeli kindergarten*
Flying firebomb from Gaza lands in Israeli kindergarten - BICOM






*
18th July 2018*

A flying firebomb attached to a balloon, launched from Gaza, landed in the playground of a kindergarten in Israel yesterday.

Five-year-old children were attending a summer programme at the kindergarten in Moshav Tekuma, in the Sdot Negev Regional Council area, when the balloon landed. There were no injuries reported and a police bomb disposal team was called to neutralise the firebomb


----------



## Sixties Fan

Firstly, the BBC found it appropriate to amplify parts of a statement from the spokesman of a terrorist organisation.

“Hamas, which dominates Gaza, warned Israel of “dangerous consequences”. […]

A Hamas spokesman called the closure a “crime against humanity”.

“These vengeful measures reflect the degree of the oppression and the ugliness of the crime that Gaza is facing, that will have dangerous consequences for which the occupation will bear full responsibility,” Fawzi Barhoum said.”

Barhoum also stated that:

“The Israeli occupation’s closure of the Kerem Shalom crossing and depriving Gaza from the most simple necessities of life is a crime against humanity that will be added to its list of crimes at the expense of the Palestinian people including those living in the Strip”

BBC audiences were not however told that in May, the terror organisation now once again claiming a “crime against humanity” directed three separate attacks against the Kerem Shalom crossing, damaging the same fuel supplies which it now calls “the most simple necessities of life”. Neither were they informed of the related issue of Hamas’ cynical exploitation of fuel imported via the Rafah crossing.

(full article online)

BBC News amplifies terror group and political NGO in crossing report


----------



## Sixties Fan

Solomon was wise. For he knew that a real mother values her child’s life above all and would do anything to spare it harm. So it is with Israel, and those who claim her.

Both Jews and Arabs claim that the deed to Israel belongs to them alone. But were the Jews and the Arabs to stand in court before King Solomon, the facts of Arab eco-terror would certainly reveal the the Jews as the true deed-holder to the land.

As of this writing, according to the IDF blog, "Hamas has burned more than 7,400 acres of land and set more than 750 fires, an average of more than 11 fires a day, using arson kites and incendiary balloons."


The Jews, on the other hand, have planted over 240 million trees. In fact, according to the Jewish National Fund (JNF), Israel is one of just two countries that have entered the 21st century with a net gain in number of trees. The very creation by the Jews of an organization whose main mandate is reforestation, reveals the desire to grow, nurture, and develop the land.

The real owner of the land, loves the land. And you do not burn or destroy what you love. You make it grow. You cultivate every inch.

(full article online)

Solomon’s Wisdom: Arab Eco-Terror Reveals True Israel Claimant ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The real owner of the land, loves the land. And you do not burn or destroy what you love. You make it grow. You cultivate every inch.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The real owner of the land, loves the land. And you do not burn or destroy what you love. You make it grow. You cultivate every inch.
Click to expand...

Are you not ashamed of posting this again?  Apparently not.


Let us explain it once more what was going on.

Arabs planted olive trees on Israeli land.  Not on their land, but Israeli sovereign land.

Which is why Israel had to uproot the olive trees.

Get it this time, or are you going to attempt to fool the fools once again?


----------



## Sixties Fan

1 dead, 3 injured in Israeli airstrike on Gaza terrorists launching incendiary bombs at Israel.

(full article online)

Report: Terrorist eliminated in Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The real owner of the land, loves the land. And you do not burn or destroy what you love. You make it grow. You cultivate every inch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you not ashamed of posting this again?  Apparently not.
> 
> 
> Let us explain it once more what was going on.
> 
> Arabs planted olive trees on Israeli land.  Not on their land, but Israeli sovereign land.
> 
> Which is why Israel had to uproot the olive trees.
> 
> Get it this time, or are you going to attempt to fool the fools once again?
Click to expand...




Sixties Fan said:


> Arabs planted olive trees on Israeli land.


Load of Israeli crap.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The real owner of the land, loves the land. And you do not burn or destroy what you love. You make it grow. You cultivate every inch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you not ashamed of posting this again?  Apparently not.
> 
> 
> Let us explain it once more what was going on.
> 
> Arabs planted olive trees on Israeli land.  Not on their land, but Israeli sovereign land.
> 
> Which is why Israel had to uproot the olive trees.
> 
> Get it this time, or are you going to attempt to fool the fools once again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs planted olive trees on Israeli land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of Israeli crap.
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The real owner of the land, loves the land. And you do not burn or destroy what you love. You make it grow. You cultivate every inch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you not ashamed of posting this again?  Apparently not.
> 
> 
> Let us explain it once more what was going on.
> 
> Arabs planted olive trees on Israeli land.  Not on their land, but Israeli sovereign land.
> 
> Which is why Israel had to uproot the olive trees.
> 
> Get it this time, or are you going to attempt to fool the fools once again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs planted olive trees on Israeli land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of Israeli crap.
Click to expand...

Trees older than Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The real owner of the land, loves the land. And you do not burn or destroy what you love. You make it grow. You cultivate every inch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you not ashamed of posting this again?  Apparently not.
> 
> 
> Let us explain it once more what was going on.
> 
> Arabs planted olive trees on Israeli land.  Not on their land, but Israeli sovereign land.
> 
> Which is why Israel had to uproot the olive trees.
> 
> Get it this time, or are you going to attempt to fool the fools once again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs planted olive trees on Israeli land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of Israeli crap.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Trees older than Israel.
Click to expand...


Are those trees part of the forested areas burned down as part of the gee-had being waged by islamic terrorists?


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

*State of Palestine: 'March of Return' protests continue at Gaza-Israeli border*

**
*The never answered question. What is Israel doing to solve this problem?*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *State of Palestine: 'March of Return' protests continue at Gaza-Israeli border*
> 
> **
> *The never answered question. What is Israel doing to solve this problem?*



Not really a significant problem in the long run, just the usual Jihadi provocation.
Israel is leveraging this idiocy to promote normalization with Arab states.

The answer Jihadi fans always run from.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *State of Palestine: 'March of Return' protests continue at Gaza-Israeli border*
> 
> 
> *The never answered question. What is Israel doing to solve this problem?*



Israel will protect its borders from islamic terrorist attacks. 

It's an islamic terrorist problem. That problem has existed since the 7th century.


----------



## Hollie

Well now, it's getting real. 

While I think Israel made a mistake by allowing the islamic terrorists nearly a free hand to escalate their attacks, this may be the start of a bloody islamic terrorist beat down. 


IDF strikes deep in Gaza after troops come under fire, amid talk of 4th Gaza war

*IDF strikes deep in Gaza after troops come under fire, amid talk of 4th Gaza war*
*Netanyahu arrives at defense headquarters amid fresh airstrikes on Gaza targets following sniper fire at IDF soldiers; 4 Hamas fighters dead; Minister: 'The gloves are coming off'*


----------



## Hollie

Israel is offering a very generous "Hellfire Missile Delivered Early Retirement Package for Islamic Terrorists."


Israel launches 'wide-scale attack' against Hamas targets in Gaza - CNN


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Well now, it's getting real.
> 
> While I think Israel made a mistake by allowing the islamic terrorists nearly a free hand to escalate their attacks, this may be the start of a bloody islamic terrorist beat down.
> 
> 
> IDF strikes deep in Gaza after troops come under fire, amid talk of 4th Gaza war
> 
> *IDF strikes deep in Gaza after troops come under fire, amid talk of 4th Gaza war*
> *Netanyahu arrives at defense headquarters amid fresh airstrikes on Gaza targets following sniper fire at IDF soldiers; 4 Hamas fighters dead; Minister: 'The gloves are coming off'*


Is violence the only thing these dumbfucks can think about?

They have been doing that for 70 years. What have they accomplished?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well now, it's getting real.
> 
> While I think Israel made a mistake by allowing the islamic terrorists nearly a free hand to escalate their attacks, this may be the start of a bloody islamic terrorist beat down.
> 
> 
> IDF strikes deep in Gaza after troops come under fire, amid talk of 4th Gaza war
> 
> *IDF strikes deep in Gaza after troops come under fire, amid talk of 4th Gaza war*
> *Netanyahu arrives at defense headquarters amid fresh airstrikes on Gaza targets following sniper fire at IDF soldiers; 4 Hamas fighters dead; Minister: 'The gloves are coming off'*
> 
> 
> 
> Is violence the only thing these dumbfucks can think about?
> 
> They have been doing that for 70 years. What have they accomplished?
Click to expand...


You poor, dear. Your gee-had at the border has been a flop. 

Its been 70 years of islamist failure due to incompetence. That's quite an accomplishment. 

israel, on the other hand has developed into a world economy. 

Have you considered setting yourself on fire in protest?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well now, it's getting real.
> 
> While I think Israel made a mistake by allowing the islamic terrorists nearly a free hand to escalate their attacks, this may be the start of a bloody islamic terrorist beat down.
> 
> 
> IDF strikes deep in Gaza after troops come under fire, amid talk of 4th Gaza war
> 
> *IDF strikes deep in Gaza after troops come under fire, amid talk of 4th Gaza war*
> *Netanyahu arrives at defense headquarters amid fresh airstrikes on Gaza targets following sniper fire at IDF soldiers; 4 Hamas fighters dead; Minister: 'The gloves are coming off'*
> 
> 
> 
> Is violence the only thing these dumbfucks can think about?
> 
> They have been doing that for 70 years. What have they accomplished?
Click to expand...



Lol. You ARE talking about the Palestinians, right?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well now, it's getting real.
> 
> While I think Israel made a mistake by allowing the islamic terrorists nearly a free hand to escalate their attacks, this may be the start of a bloody islamic terrorist beat down.
> 
> 
> IDF strikes deep in Gaza after troops come under fire, amid talk of 4th Gaza war
> 
> *IDF strikes deep in Gaza after troops come under fire, amid talk of 4th Gaza war*
> *Netanyahu arrives at defense headquarters amid fresh airstrikes on Gaza targets following sniper fire at IDF soldiers; 4 Hamas fighters dead; Minister: 'The gloves are coming off'*
> 
> 
> 
> Is violence the only thing these dumbfucks can think about?
> 
> They have been doing that for 70 years. What have they accomplished?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. You ARE talking about the Palestinians, right?
Click to expand...

Do try to keep up.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Israel Air Force (IAF) on Friday attacked some 60 targets belonging to the Hamas terrorist organization in Gaza and destroyed three compounds belonging to the group.

“The Hamas terror organization orchestrates hostile activity along the security fence which includes arson terror, launching rockets at Israeli territory and violent riots. During these violent riots, along with other severe acts of terror that were aimed at IDF troops and security infrastructure, an IDF soldier was killed in a shooting attack today (Friday),” said the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit.

(full article online)

IDF attacks 60 targets in Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

Like a broken record: Weekend’s Gaza-Israel flare-up another round of almost-war


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

As hinted to above, they have been used to carry explosives to blow themselves and human targets up as well.

Our incendiary falcon commentator, PETA, has been vocal on the donkey matter as well. Way back on February 3, 2003, for example, Ingrid Newkirk, PETA’s president, wrote a letter to the now deceased Yasser Arafat urging that Arabs not use donkeys when murdering Jews. Note that there was no mention of concern about blowing up Jews…just that animals be left out of the conflict. And similar to what they recently stated above regarding our poor feathered friend.

Again, while no people nor culture has a monopoly on saints or sinners, one would be very hard-pressed to find Jews doing these sort of things to animals, let alone people.

Not only are Jews not permitted to do such things as overwork their animals (they must also rest on the Sabbath, for example), they are expected to take care of their animals’ own basic needs–such as food and water–before those of themselves. And, unlike what we see too often in the “Arab”/Muslim world, these positive principles are largely put into practice.

While there are some folks who don’t mind abusing or murdering people but supposedly still like animals (Hitler, for example), the mistreatment of the one too often seems to make the slaughter of the other much easier.

The same common disregard for animal life described above in now predominantly Muslim Arab Bethlehem happens to also be taking place in a culture which glorifies and makes heros of those who visit Jewish families in the night, beheading infants and murdering the others as well; creates museums with fake Jewish body parts hanging from the ceiling in commemoration of the real acts of barbarism; stops pregnant mothers in their cars and murders the children at point blank range in their seats; kidnaps young children and smashes their heads against walls inside of caves; deliberately targets schools and school buses; and so forth…all documented Arab acts of “heroism” for which the perpetrators and their families are honored and given monetary rewards.

There’s no problem with the Jews’ donkeys…and no Jews beheading Arab infants either.

(full article online)

Donkeys and falcons and qassams et al


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian protesters bring down Israeli drone over Gaza


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian protesters bring down Israeli drone over Gaza




Allah Akbar. That makes the deaths of all those virgin seeking wannabes seem empty and meaningless, 

You PressTV groupies are a hoot.


----------



## Sixties Fan

A new video glorifying balloon terrorism accidentally tells Israelis that if they stay put, the Palestinians will leave.

In a message attached to the balloons, the terrorists write in both English and Hebrew, "Get out of our land before we leave you."

Bon voyage!

Obviously they intended "before we force you."

Polls have shown that many Palestinians, especially youth in Gaza, would love to leave if they could, and many took advantage of Egypt's relative loosening of its border in the past month to do exactly that.

(full article online)

Balloon terrorists mistranslate message to Jews: "Get out of our land before we do"  ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

The role of a shill is to conceal any nefarious intent by the huckster, to protect the sheen of the product. Consistent with this, the newspaper’s highly selective attention to the facts of the Gaza story served to conceal Hamas’s own double message.

(full article online)

‘New York Times’ shills for ‘largely peaceful’ Gazan rioters and arsonists


----------



## Sixties Fan

Many thanks to all those who wrote in to alert us to an item aired in the July 25th edition of the BBC Radio 4 programme ‘Today‘. That report by Paul Adams – currently a BBC diplomatic correspondent and formerly twice based in Jerusalem – was introduced by presenter Mishal Husain(from 015 here) with multiple inaccuracies.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Husain: “Israel has partially reopened the Kerem Shalom crossing point into the Gaza Strip allowing fuel to enter the territory for the first time in two weeks. The crossing was closed earlier this month after incendiary kites were flown across the border setting fire to agricultural land inside Israel.”

Firstly, the Kerem Shalom crossing was not “closed” – and therefore also not “reopened”. As the BBC News website reported on July 17th, restrictions were placed on the types of goods allowed through:

“No fuel will enter through Kerem Shalom until Sunday, but food and medicine deliveries will still be permitted.” [emphasis added]

The restriction on fuel and gas imports was lifted at noon on July 24th after having been in force since July 17th: in other words for seven and a half days. Husain’s claim that fuel had entered the territory “for the first time in two weeks” is hence inaccurate. Listeners were not told that the restrictions were introduced not only after “incendiary kites were flown across the border” by parties Husain refrains from identifying but also after terror factions in the Gaza Strip had launched over 200 rockets and mortars at Israeli civilians two days beforehand.

(full article online)

A context-free ‘Today’ report from the BBC’s Paul Adams in Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Israeli military on Friday afternoon carried out an airstrike on a squad of Palestinians in the northern Gaza Strip as they flew incendiary balloons towards Israel, the army said.

(full article online)

IDF strikes balloon-launching squad in Gaza amid weekly border protests


----------



## Sixties Fan

Yes, JVP is calling the kites with firebombs, which have destroyed hundreds of acres of forest and farmland, "popular protests for freedom."

When Israel haters use the words "peace," "justice," "dignity" and "equality" they really mean terror, hate, incitement and war - against Israel.

"Jewish Voice for Peace" is not Jewish and doesn't want peace.

1984 is today, and most people are too clueless to realize it. 

(full article online)

Jewish Voice for Peace call firebomb kites "popular protests for freedom" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Yes, JVP is calling the kites with firebombs, which have destroyed hundreds of acres of forest and farmland, "popular protests for freedom."
> 
> When Israel haters use the words "peace," "justice," "dignity" and "equality" they really mean terror, hate, incitement and war - against Israel.
> 
> "Jewish Voice for Peace" is not Jewish and doesn't want peace.
> 
> 1984 is today, and most people are too clueless to realize it.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Jewish Voice for Peace call firebomb kites "popular protests for freedom" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News





Sixties Fan said:


> Yes, JVP is calling the kites with firebombs, which have destroyed hundreds of acres of forest and farmland, "popular protests for freedom."


And Israel calls bombing homes, schools, and hospitals self defense.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, JVP is calling the kites with firebombs, which have destroyed hundreds of acres of forest and farmland, "popular protests for freedom."
> 
> When Israel haters use the words "peace," "justice," "dignity" and "equality" they really mean terror, hate, incitement and war - against Israel.
> 
> "Jewish Voice for Peace" is not Jewish and doesn't want peace.
> 
> 1984 is today, and most people are too clueless to realize it.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Jewish Voice for Peace call firebomb kites "popular protests for freedom" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, JVP is calling the kites with firebombs, which have destroyed hundreds of acres of forest and farmland, "popular protests for freedom."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And Israel calls bombing homes, schools, and hospitals self defense.
Click to expand...


Islamists call homes, schools, and hospitals as legitimate places for waging war. 

You believe that you have an entitlement to wage acts of war without consequence. The IDF disagrees. 

Now, stop painting your silly protest signs within confined spaces. The aerosol fumes makes you loopy.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Anyone watching a team of firefighters extinguishes a blaze near Kibbutz Zikim this week would have noticed something odd. Despite wearing the same uniform and using the same gear as Israel Fire and Rescue Services, many of those working to put out the fire caused by a Gazan incendiary kite were communicating entirely in English.

The team of firefighters are not Israeli, but a squad of American firefighters that had flown into Israel specifically to lend a hand in combatting the plague of flaming kites that have devastated Israel's south since the "kite terror" phenomenon began in April.

(full article online)

The US firefighters volunteering to protect Israel's south


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, JVP is calling the kites with firebombs, which have destroyed hundreds of acres of forest and farmland, "popular protests for freedom."
> 
> When Israel haters use the words "peace," "justice," "dignity" and "equality" they really mean terror, hate, incitement and war - against Israel.
> 
> "Jewish Voice for Peace" is not Jewish and doesn't want peace.
> 
> 1984 is today, and most people are too clueless to realize it.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Jewish Voice for Peace call firebomb kites "popular protests for freedom" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, JVP is calling the kites with firebombs, which have destroyed hundreds of acres of forest and farmland, "popular protests for freedom."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And Israel calls bombing homes, schools, and hospitals self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islamists call homes, schools, and hospitals as legitimate places for waging war.
> 
> You believe that you have an entitlement to wage acts of war without consequence. The IDF disagrees.
> 
> Now, stop painting your silly protest signs within confined spaces. The aerosol fumes makes you loopy.
Click to expand...

Yep, that is what Israel says.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, JVP is calling the kites with firebombs, which have destroyed hundreds of acres of forest and farmland, "popular protests for freedom."
> 
> When Israel haters use the words "peace," "justice," "dignity" and "equality" they really mean terror, hate, incitement and war - against Israel.
> 
> "Jewish Voice for Peace" is not Jewish and doesn't want peace.
> 
> 1984 is today, and most people are too clueless to realize it.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Jewish Voice for Peace call firebomb kites "popular protests for freedom" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, JVP is calling the kites with firebombs, which have destroyed hundreds of acres of forest and farmland, "popular protests for freedom."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And Israel calls bombing homes, schools, and hospitals self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islamists call homes, schools, and hospitals as legitimate places for waging war.
> 
> You believe that you have an entitlement to wage acts of war without consequence. The IDF disagrees.
> 
> Now, stop painting your silly protest signs within confined spaces. The aerosol fumes makes you loopy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep, that is what Israel says.
Click to expand...


Yep, that is what the facts demonstrate. You should apologize for ignoring the facts.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Security and firefighting forces extinguish 5 fires caused by terrorists from the Gaza Strip.

(full article online)

10 fires caused by incendiary kites, balloons Tuesday


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, JVP is calling the kites with firebombs, which have destroyed hundreds of acres of forest and farmland, "popular protests for freedom."
> 
> When Israel haters use the words "peace," "justice," "dignity" and "equality" they really mean terror, hate, incitement and war - against Israel.
> 
> "Jewish Voice for Peace" is not Jewish and doesn't want peace.
> 
> 1984 is today, and most people are too clueless to realize it.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Jewish Voice for Peace call firebomb kites "popular protests for freedom" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, JVP is calling the kites with firebombs, which have destroyed hundreds of acres of forest and farmland, "popular protests for freedom."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And Israel calls bombing homes, schools, and hospitals self defense.
Click to expand...


If those are where Hamas stores their weapons they are correct


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, JVP is calling the kites with firebombs, which have destroyed hundreds of acres of forest and farmland, "popular protests for freedom."
> 
> When Israel haters use the words "peace," "justice," "dignity" and "equality" they really mean terror, hate, incitement and war - against Israel.
> 
> "Jewish Voice for Peace" is not Jewish and doesn't want peace.
> 
> 1984 is today, and most people are too clueless to realize it.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Jewish Voice for Peace call firebomb kites "popular protests for freedom" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, JVP is calling the kites with firebombs, which have destroyed hundreds of acres of forest and farmland, "popular protests for freedom."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And Israel calls bombing homes, schools, and hospitals self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If those are where Hamas stores their weapons they are correct
Click to expand...

Pfffft, bullshit Israeli talking points.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, JVP is calling the kites with firebombs, which have destroyed hundreds of acres of forest and farmland, "popular protests for freedom."
> 
> When Israel haters use the words "peace," "justice," "dignity" and "equality" they really mean terror, hate, incitement and war - against Israel.
> 
> "Jewish Voice for Peace" is not Jewish and doesn't want peace.
> 
> 1984 is today, and most people are too clueless to realize it.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Jewish Voice for Peace call firebomb kites "popular protests for freedom" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, JVP is calling the kites with firebombs, which have destroyed hundreds of acres of forest and farmland, "popular protests for freedom."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And Israel calls bombing homes, schools, and hospitals self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If those are where Hamas stores their weapons they are correct
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pfffft, bullshit Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...


Hamas doesn’t store weapons in schools , homes, and other public places?   Palestinian talking points.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Pfffft, bullshit Israeli talking points.



Be clear what you are arguing, here.  ILOVEISRAEL is correct.  Current international law does not give protection to military objectives when they are present in places which would normally be considered protected.  And the obligation to keep those protected places free from military objectives is placed on the party under whose control those places are.  Surely, you are not arguing this, are you?

So you must be arguing that Arabs are committed to keeping protected places such as schools, hospitals and mosques free from military objectives?  Bwhahahahahha!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pfffft, bullshit Israeli talking points.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be clear what you are arguing, here.  ILOVEISRAEL is correct.  Current international law does not give protection to military objectives when they are present in places which would normally be considered protected.  And the obligation to keep those protected places free from military objectives is placed on the party under whose control those places are.  Surely, you are not arguing this, are you?
> 
> So you must be arguing that Arabs are committed to keeping protected places such as schools, hospitals and mosques free from military objectives?  Bwhahahahahha!
Click to expand...

There has only one case where rockets were stored in an *unused* school.

Israeli bullshit implies that every school, home, and hospital has weapons stored.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pfffft, bullshit Israeli talking points.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be clear what you are arguing, here.  ILOVEISRAEL is correct.  Current international law does not give protection to military objectives when they are present in places which would normally be considered protected.  And the obligation to keep those protected places free from military objectives is placed on the party under whose control those places are.  Surely, you are not arguing this, are you?
> 
> So you must be arguing that Arabs are committed to keeping protected places such as schools, hospitals and mosques free from military objectives?  Bwhahahahahha!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There has only one case where rockets were stored in an *unused* school.
> 
> Israeli bullshit implies that every school, home, and hospital has weapons stored.
Click to expand...


More Palestinian BullShit!! Nobody said /implied that Rockets and other weapons were stored in EVERY home, school, etc. etc.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> There has only one case where rockets were stored in an *unused* school.
> 
> Israeli bullshit implies that every school, home, and hospital has weapons stored.



Um.  Bullshit Palestinian talking point.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> There has only one case where rockets were stored in an *unused* school.




Befuddled as usual. 

UNRWA condemns placement of rockets, for a second time, in one of its schools | UNRWA


Really, sweetie. Flailing your Pom Poms for the Islamic terrorists you are in thrall to is really, ummm, creepy.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There has only one case where rockets were stored in an *unused* school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Befuddled as usual.
> 
> UNRWA condemns placement of rockets, for a second time, in one of its schools | UNRWA
> 
> 
> Really, sweetie. Flailing your Pom Poms for the Islamic terrorists you are in thrall to is really, ummm, creepy.
Click to expand...

Another vacant school.

Then Israel uses that as an excuse to bomb thousands of homes, factories, schools, and businesses.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There has only one case where rockets were stored in an *unused* school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Befuddled as usual.
> 
> UNRWA condemns placement of rockets, for a second time, in one of its schools | UNRWA
> 
> 
> Really, sweetie. Flailing your Pom Poms for the Islamic terrorists you are in thrall to is really, ummm, creepy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another vacant school.
> 
> Then Israel uses that as an excuse to bomb thousands of homes, factories, schools, and businesses.
Click to expand...


Another vacant-minded reply. It’s not at all surprising that your claims are bogus and unsupported. You’re then left to try and defend Islamic terrorists using schools as homes, factories, schools and businesses as places to wage war. 

You have this quaint notion that your co-religionists have an entitlement to wage war without consequence. 

Hey, it’s your delusion. Enjoy the show.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There has only one case where rockets were stored in an *unused* school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Befuddled as usual.
> 
> UNRWA condemns placement of rockets, for a second time, in one of its schools | UNRWA
> 
> 
> Really, sweetie. Flailing your Pom Poms for the Islamic terrorists you are in thrall to is really, ummm, creepy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another vacant school.
> 
> Then Israel uses that as an excuse to bomb thousands of homes, factories, schools, and businesses.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another vacant-minded reply. It’s not at all surprising that your claims are bogus and unsupported. You’re then left to try and defend Islamic terrorists using schools as homes, factories, schools and businesses as places to wage war.
> 
> You have this quaint notion that your co-religionists have an entitlement to wage war without consequence.
> 
> Hey, it’s your delusion. Enjoy the show.
Click to expand...

Bullshit Israeli talking points.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There has only one case where rockets were stored in an *unused* school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Befuddled as usual.
> 
> UNRWA condemns placement of rockets, for a second time, in one of its schools | UNRWA
> 
> 
> Really, sweetie. Flailing your Pom Poms for the Islamic terrorists you are in thrall to is really, ummm, creepy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another vacant school.
> 
> Then Israel uses that as an excuse to bomb thousands of homes, factories, schools, and businesses.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another vacant-minded reply. It’s not at all surprising that your claims are bogus and unsupported. You’re then left to try and defend Islamic terrorists using schools as homes, factories, schools and businesses as places to wage war.
> 
> You have this quaint notion that your co-religionists have an entitlement to wage war without consequence.
> 
> Hey, it’s your delusion. Enjoy the show.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...


That is your usual cut and paste slogan when you're unable to defend a position. It's just unfortunate that you excuse putting the lives of children in danger and accommodating the most unethical behavior on behalf of your politico-religious ideology.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Defense Minister Avigdor Liberman on Wednesday ordered a freeze on all fuel and gas shipments into Gaza through the main goods crossing into the enclave, in response to continued incendiary balloon attacks and ongoing violence along the Israel-Gaza border.

The closure will continue until further notice, Israeli officials said on a day when firefighters battled seven separate brush fires near the Gaza border caused by incendiary balloons, according to fire and rescue officials.

(full article online)

Defense minister orders stop to Gaza fuel shipments over fire balloons


----------



## Sixties Fan

Many who follow the news about Israel take note of missile bombardments that send Israelis racing to bomb shelters. How many truly understand the battle against arson terrorism?

Hamas, an internationally recognized terrorist organization, openly states that their goal is the destruction of Israel. 

They tried to attack Israel by land and failed. 

They tried to attack Israel underground, spending millions meant to assist the people of Gaza, to build attack tunnels that would allow Hamas commandos to burst from the ground and surprise Israelis (some tunnels targeted civilians, others military installations). They failed at that too.

Plying their ingenuity to destruction, Hamas came up with an ingenious and diabolical solution – firebombs delivered by kites and balloons. Children’s toys perverted into weapons of war, to attack through the air. These weapons don’t need to be imported from Iran. They are cheap, easy to come by and to the international media, look innocent, even romantic.

Many media sources have published highly stylized photos of masked Gazans preparing kites.  Who is taking note of the Israelis suffering from daily arson attacks?



(full article online)

Fighting fire, under fire (Forest Rain) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Hamas, an internationally recognized terrorist organization, openly states that their goal is the destruction of Israel.


Not really. Only a handful of countries call Hamas terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> (some tunnels targeted civilians, others military installations).


*Lie.*

No civilians were ever attacked.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> (some tunnels targeted civilians, others military installations).
> 
> 
> 
> *Lie.*
> 
> No civilians were ever attacked.
Click to expand...


*Melodrama.
*
Islamic terrorist attacks on civilians were prevented.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas, an internationally recognized terrorist organization, openly states that their goal is the destruction of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. Only a handful of countries call Hamas terrorists.
Click to expand...


Yes, really. The Hamas charter calls for the destruction of Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas, an internationally recognized terrorist organization, openly states that their goal is the destruction of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. Only a handful of countries call Hamas terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, really. The Hamas charter calls for the destruction of Israel.
Click to expand...

Israel has been destroying Palestine since before there was a Hamas.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas, an internationally recognized terrorist organization, openly states that their goal is the destruction of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. Only a handful of countries call Hamas terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, really. The Hamas charter calls for the destruction of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has been destroying Palestine since before there was a Hamas.
Click to expand...


More of your melodramatic nonsense. 

And yes, you attempted to dance around the fact that your heroes specifically call for the destruction of Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas, an internationally recognized terrorist organization, openly states that their goal is the destruction of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. Only a handful of countries call Hamas terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, really. The Hamas charter calls for the destruction of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has been destroying Palestine since before there was a Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More of your melodramatic nonsense.
> 
> And yes, you attempted to dance around the fact that your heroes specifically call for the destruction of Israel.
Click to expand...

And your point?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

If you look at the past practices of criminal behaviors, you will see a pattern.  It is a pattern that clearly points towards a media strategy that is dependent on HAMAS inflicting civilian casualties.



P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> (some tunnels targeted civilians, others military installations).
> 
> 
> 
> *Lie.*
> No civilians were ever attacked.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Although the tunnels have been used as cover and concealment for all manner of attacks, the overall strategy includes entire spectrum of attacks by Hostile Arab Palestinias (HoAP) → solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, grave collective danger, seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations, AND serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power.   Nearly all of the attacks by HoAP, including HAMAS, has the specific and intentional objective to cause the death of one or more persons.

It is absolutely absurd to even suggest that HAMAS _[or any of the other half-dozen or so still active HoAP (Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters)] _do not consider Israelis civilians as targets of opportunity. 
Simply absurd!

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> If you look at the past practices of criminal behaviors, you will see a pattern.  It is a pattern that clearly points towards a media strategy that is dependent on HAMAS inflicting civilian casualties.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> (some tunnels targeted civilians, others military installations).
> 
> 
> 
> *Lie.*
> No civilians were ever attacked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Although the tunnels have been used as cover and concealment for all manner of attacks, the overall strategy includes entire spectrum of attacks by Hostile Arab Palestinias (HoAP) → solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, grave collective danger, seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations, AND serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power.   Nearly all of the attacks by HoAP, including HAMAS, has the specific and intentional objective to cause the death of one or more persons.
> 
> It is absolutely absurd to even suggest that HAMAS _[or any of the other half-dozen or so still active HoAP (Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters)] _do not consider Israelis civilians as targets of opportunity.
> Simply absurd!
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Are you going to reduce yourself to Israel's BS talking points.

Add that to your slime the Palestinians posts.


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF targets Hamas post in Gaza after a number of suspects infiltrate Israel and hurl firebombs and an explosive device.

(full article online)

Gazans infiltrate into Israel


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> It is absolutely absurd to even suggest that HAMAS _[or any of the other half-dozen or so still active HoAP (Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters)] _do not consider Israelis civilians as targets of opportunity.
> Simply absurd!




It is absurd.  But then, Tinmore argues that there are no such thing as Israeli civilians.  They are all fair game for murder.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The IDF on Saturday attacked two terrorist squads that launched incendiary balloons from the southern Gaza Strip into Israeli territory. Both attacks used drones that fired on the terrorists, one in the morning hours, the other around noon.

Two fires broke out in the Be’eri area near the Gaza border as a result of launched balloons. Firefighters, with the assistance of the IDF, JNF, the Israel Nature and National Parks Protection Authority, local police, and residents of local settlements managed to control the fire.

(full article online)

IDF Attacks 2 Gaza Incendiary Balloon Terror Squads


----------



## Sixties Fan

Opinion video: The environmental impact of war


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> If you look at the past practices of criminal behaviors, you will see a pattern.  It is a pattern that clearly points towards a media strategy that is dependent on HAMAS inflicting civilian casualties.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> (some tunnels targeted civilians, others military installations).
> 
> 
> 
> *Lie.*
> No civilians were ever attacked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Although the tunnels have been used as cover and concealment for all manner of attacks, the overall strategy includes entire spectrum of attacks by Hostile Arab Palestinias (HoAP) → solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, grave collective danger, seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations, AND serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power.   Nearly all of the attacks by HoAP, including HAMAS, has the specific and intentional objective to cause the death of one or more persons.
> 
> It is absolutely absurd to even suggest that HAMAS _[or any of the other half-dozen or so still active HoAP (Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters)] _do not consider Israelis civilians as targets of opportunity.
> Simply absurd!
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you going to reduce yourself to Israel's BS talking points.
> 
> Add that to your slime the Palestinians posts.
Click to expand...


It really is surprising that you’re the only one not embarrassed by your usual, juvenile, school-boy cut and paste slogans.

Israeli citizens have always been primary targets for Islamic terrorist attacks perpetrated by the various Islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza and the West Bank. The suicide bombings aimed at civilian facilities clearly demonstrate that. The Hamas charter is a blanket statement of the (unrealized) goals furthered by Hamas.

As you may be unaware, Hamas is the bastard child of the Muslim Brotherhood. Here’s some loveliness that identifies the Death Cult-like ideological perspectives that shaped Hamas:

THE DEATH CULT: “Degradation and dishonour are the results of the love of this world. Therefore, prepare for jihad and be the lovers of death. . . .
Death is an art, and the most exquisite of arts when practiced by the skillful artist.”
———Brotherhood Founder Hassan al-Banna (c. 1940)

Lovely, lovely ideology you have there.


----------



## Hollie

The Toxic Gee-had.

The only thing that matters to these people is to announce their hate, self-hate and willingness to foul the environment with their presence and their ideology.


http://www.njherald.com/article/20180804/AP/308049985#//

*Israel stops activist boat, Gaza teen dies from Israeli fire*





*5 of 5*
Palestinian protesters gather during a protest at the Gaza Strip's border with Israel, Friday, Aug. 3, 2018. Gaza's Hamas rulers led several thousand Palestinians in a protest along the frontier with Israel on Friday, a show of presence by Hamas as Egyptian efforts intensify to broker a broad truce between the Islamic militant group and Israel. (AP Photo/Khalil Hamra)
The Associated Press
*The Associated Press*
Posted: Aug. 4, 2018 8:00 am 
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — Israel's military says it intercepted an activist boat trying to breach a decade-old blockade of the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip.

In a separate development, Gaza's Health Ministry said a 15-year-old Palestinian died Saturday of wounds sustained from Israeli fire at a border protest the day before.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Notably Dymond’s “David and Goliath” framing excluded all mention of the IEDs, grenades, petrol bombs and shootings which have also been an integral part of the violent rioting he euphemistically and uniformly called “protests”. Neither did he bother to inform listeners of the fact that a significant proportion of the Palestinians killed since March were linked to terror factions.

Bateman began his report with a visit to the father of a youth – reported by many other media outlets to be fifteen years old – who was shot on July 13th as he participated in violent rioting that included a grenade attack in which an Israeli soldier was injured. Notably that attack was completely excluded from Bateman’s account of those “protests”.

(full article online)

BBC radio audiences get whitewashed picture of youth participation in Gaza riots


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gaza Return March Spokesman Ahmad Abu Rutema Calls for "Tactical Withdrawal" from the Return March: "We Have Lost the Battle for Public Opinion" and Must Invent New Tactics


MEMRI on Twitter


----------



## Sixties Fan

Terrorists from the Gaza Strip opened fire on civilian workers engaged in the construction of the barrier along the security fence near the northern Gaza Strip Wednesday afternoon.

According to the IDF, an engineering vehicle was struck by gunfire from Gaza.

(full article online)

Terrorists shoot at civilians near Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Terrorists from the Gaza Strip opened fire on civilian workers engaged in the construction of the barrier along the security fence near the northern Gaza Strip Wednesday afternoon.
> 
> According to the IDF, an engineering vehicle was struck by gunfire from Gaza.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Terrorists shoot at civilians near Gaza


Military project.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorists from the Gaza Strip opened fire on civilian workers engaged in the construction of the barrier along the security fence near the northern Gaza Strip Wednesday afternoon.
> 
> According to the IDF, an engineering vehicle was struck by gunfire from Gaza.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Terrorists shoot at civilians near Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> Military project.
Click to expand...


When does that military distinguish itself from non-combatants?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  rylah, P F Tinmore, et al,

As usual, our friend "Tinmore" is 100% wrong.



rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Military project.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When does that military distinguish itself from non-combatants?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Like in North America, the UK, the EU, and even the Russian Federation, immigration and border protection and enforcement are handled by the civilian agencies; not so dissimilar from Israel and the duties of the Border Police _(emphasis on "Border")._

It is NOT a "military project."  Now, if the engineers were making tank traps or building artillery platforms and infiltration tunnels, that would be different.  But border improvements, repairs, and maintenance are not "military projects." 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  rylah, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> As usual, our friend "Tinmore" is 100% wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Military project.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When does that military distinguish itself from non-combatants?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Like in North America, the UK, the EU, and even the Russian Federation, immigration and border protection and enforcement are handled by the civilian agencies; not so dissimilar from Israel and the duties of the Border Police _(emphasis on "Border")._
> 
> It is NOT a "military project."  Now, if the engineers were making tank traps or building artillery platforms and infiltration tunnels, that would be different.  But border improvements, repairs, and maintenance are not "military projects."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Building a cage is for the military no matter how you try to slice it.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  rylah, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> As usual, our friend "Tinmore" is 100% wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Military project.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When does that military distinguish itself from non-combatants?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Like in North America, the UK, the EU, and even the Russian Federation, immigration and border protection and enforcement are handled by the civilian agencies; not so dissimilar from Israel and the duties of the Border Police _(emphasis on "Border")._
> 
> It is NOT a "military project."  Now, if the engineers were making tank traps or building artillery platforms and infiltration tunnels, that would be different.  But border improvements, repairs, and maintenance are not "military projects."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Building a cage is for the military no matter how you try to slice it.
Click to expand...


Your false claims, bad analogies and screeching tirades don’t change the facts.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  rylah, P F Tinmore, et al,

That is a somewhat foolish response.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  rylah, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> As usual, our friend "Tinmore" is 100% wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Military project.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When does that military distinguish itself from non-combatants?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Like in North America, the UK, the EU, and even the Russian Federation, immigration and border protection and enforcement are handled by the civilian agencies; not so dissimilar from Israel and the duties of the Border Police _(emphasis on "Border")._
> 
> It is NOT a "military project."  Now, if the engineers were making tank traps or building artillery platforms and infiltration tunnels, that would be different.  But border improvements, repairs, and maintenance are not "military projects."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Building a cage is for the military no matter how you try to slice it.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

A cage keeps something *inside*. That is very different from a Border Perimeter that keeps something *outside*.




​In this case, the border perimeter is keeping the Hostile Arab Palestinians _(and other undesirables)_ from gaining access _(keeping outside)_ to Israeli sovereign territory.  This is much the same concept as a fence around private property, and barriers to prevent thieves and hostiles from entering a space/area for criminal purposes.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  rylah, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> That is a somewhat foolish response.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  rylah, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> As usual, our friend "Tinmore" is 100% wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Military project.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When does that military distinguish itself from non-combatants?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Like in North America, the UK, the EU, and even the Russian Federation, immigration and border protection and enforcement are handled by the civilian agencies; not so dissimilar from Israel and the duties of the Border Police _(emphasis on "Border")._
> 
> It is NOT a "military project."  Now, if the engineers were making tank traps or building artillery platforms and infiltration tunnels, that would be different.  But border improvements, repairs, and maintenance are not "military projects."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Building a cage is for the military no matter how you try to slice it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> A cage keeps something *inside*. That is very different from a Border Perimeter that keeps something *outside*.
> 
> View attachment 209448​In this case, the border perimeter is keeping the Hostile Arab Palestinians _(and other undesirables)_ from gaining access _(keeping outside)_ to Israeli sovereign territory.  This is much the same concept as a fence around private property, and barriers to prevent thieves and hostiles from entering a space/area for criminal purposes.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> A cage keeps something *inside*.


Indeed, I am correct.

By your definition, the Palestinians can go anywhere but Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  rylah, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> That is a somewhat foolish response.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  rylah, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> As usual, our friend "Tinmore" is 100% wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Military project.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When does that military distinguish itself from non-combatants?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Like in North America, the UK, the EU, and even the Russian Federation, immigration and border protection and enforcement are handled by the civilian agencies; not so dissimilar from Israel and the duties of the Border Police _(emphasis on "Border")._
> 
> It is NOT a "military project."  Now, if the engineers were making tank traps or building artillery platforms and infiltration tunnels, that would be different.  But border improvements, repairs, and maintenance are not "military projects."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Building a cage is for the military no matter how you try to slice it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> A cage keeps something *inside*. That is very different from a Border Perimeter that keeps something *outside*.
> 
> View attachment 209448​In this case, the border perimeter is keeping the Hostile Arab Palestinians _(and other undesirables)_ from gaining access _(keeping outside)_ to Israeli sovereign territory.  This is much the same concept as a fence around private property, and barriers to prevent thieves and hostiles from entering a space/area for criminal purposes.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> A cage keeps something *inside*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, I am correct.
> 
> By your definition, the Palestinians can go anywhere but Israel.
Click to expand...


Indeed, you’re not paying attention.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

No, you're NOT correct.  You are just twisting the facts to confuse the issues.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> A cage keeps something *inside*.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, I am correct.
> 
> By your definition, the Palestinians can go anywhere but Israel.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Palestinians can go anywhere they want; provided they are granted safe passage across borders.

Does Jordan allow safe passage?
Does Egypt allow safe passage?
Draw me a line, a pathway the Arab Palestinians want to travel and ask yourself:  Can you be granted sate passage?  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> No, you're NOT correct.  You are just twisting the facts to confuse the issues.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> A cage keeps something *inside*.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, I am correct.
> 
> By your definition, the Palestinians can go anywhere but Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians can go anywhere they want; provided they are granted safe passage across borders.
> 
> Does Jordan allow safe passage?
> Does Egypt allow safe passage?
> Draw me a line, a pathway the Arab Palestinians want to travel and ask yourself:  Can you be granted sate passage?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Egypt and Jordan are both paid by the US to side with Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> No, you're NOT correct.  You are just twisting the facts to confuse the issues.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> A cage keeps something *inside*.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, I am correct.
> 
> By your definition, the Palestinians can go anywhere but Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians can go anywhere they want; provided they are granted safe passage across borders.
> 
> Does Jordan allow safe passage?
> Does Egypt allow safe passage?
> Draw me a line, a pathway the Arab Palestinians want to travel and ask yourself:  Can you be granted sate passage?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Egypt and Jordan are both paid by the US to side with Israel.
Click to expand...


If it’s not silly YouTube videos it’s conspiracy theories.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  rylah, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> That is a somewhat foolish response.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  rylah, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> As usual, our friend "Tinmore" is 100% wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Military project.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When does that military distinguish itself from non-combatants?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Like in North America, the UK, the EU, and even the Russian Federation, immigration and border protection and enforcement are handled by the civilian agencies; not so dissimilar from Israel and the duties of the Border Police _(emphasis on "Border")._
> 
> It is NOT a "military project."  Now, if the engineers were making tank traps or building artillery platforms and infiltration tunnels, that would be different.  But border improvements, repairs, and maintenance are not "military projects."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Building a cage is for the military no matter how you try to slice it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> A cage keeps something *inside*. That is very different from a Border Perimeter that keeps something *outside*.
> 
> View attachment 209448​In this case, the border perimeter is keeping the Hostile Arab Palestinians _(and other undesirables)_ from gaining access _(keeping outside)_ to Israeli sovereign territory.  This is much the same concept as a fence around private property, and barriers to prevent thieves and hostiles from entering a space/area for criminal purposes.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> A cage keeps something *inside*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, I am correct.
> 
> By your definition, the Palestinians can go anywhere but Israel.
Click to expand...


What law obliges a nation to accept a hostile population of an enemy state?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> No, you're NOT correct.  You are just twisting the facts to confuse the issues.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> A cage keeps something *inside*.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, I am correct.
> 
> By your definition, the Palestinians can go anywhere but Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians can go anywhere they want; provided they are granted safe passage across borders.
> 
> Does Jordan allow safe passage?
> Does Egypt allow safe passage?
> Draw me a line, a pathway the Arab Palestinians want to travel and ask yourself:  Can you be granted sate passage?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Egypt and Jordan are both paid by the US to side with Israel.
Click to expand...


Who paid Hamas and PLO to murder Egyptians and Jordanians?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, don't be so naive*!*



P F Tinmore said:


> Egypt and Jordan are both paid by the US to side with Israel.


*(COMMENT)*

I don't suppose that Egypt and Jordan would have any other reason for being restrictive on their borders with the Arab Palestinians...  Oh noooo.  The Arab Palestinians don't pose a security threat to any Arab League Nation; especially with the two Arab Nations with Peace Treaties...

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh, don't be so naive*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt and Jordan are both paid by the US to side with Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I don't suppose that Egypt and Jordan would have any other reason for being restrictive on their borders with the Arab Palestinians...  Oh noooo.  The Arab Palestinians don't pose a security threat to any Arab League Nation; especially with the two Arab Nations with Peace Treaties...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The Palestinians do not pose a threat to anybody.

We give Egypt and Jordan a couple $B a year each. Why?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians do not pose a threat to anybody.



There are dead Egyptian border guards who would disagree. 

We can discuss others but slogging through YouTube videos you will dump into the thread is time wasting.


----------



## Hollie

Oh my. Those angry islamo yutes still haven’t learned they have entered 
The No Gee-had Zone.




Report: One killed, 170 injured in clashes along Gaza border






https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-...a-after-over-200-rockets-strike-Israel-564514


----------



## Hollie

*Gee-had - Men in Dresses.



IDF shells Hamas posts in Gaza after grenade, bombs hurled at troops*


*IDF shells Hamas posts in Gaza after grenade, bombs hurled at troops*

*Two Palestinians said killed, over 300 hurt as thousands rally at border, hurl rocks, firebombs, try to breach fence; at least 9 fires reported in Israel due to airborne arson*
By TOI STAFFToday, 6:29 pm  20


----------



## Mindful

A day after an Egyptian-brokered truce between Israel and Hamas went into effect, thousands of Palestinians rioted on the Israel-Gaza Strip border on Friday.

During the unrest, in which at least two rioters were reportedly killed, terrorists tossed a grenade at IDF troops.

According to the IDF, rioters also burned tires and threw rocks, explosive devices and firebombs at soldiers and the border fence.


Despite Israel-Hamas Ceasefire, Gaza Border Riots Resume


----------



## Mindful

On Wednesday and Thursday, terrorists in Hamas-ruled Gaza fired more than 180 rockets into southern Israel, targeting border area communities and the more distant city of Beersheba.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> A day after an Egyptian-brokered truce between Israel and Hamas went into effect, thousands of Palestinians rioted on the Israel-Gaza Strip border on Friday.
> 
> During the unrest, in which at least two rioters were reportedly killed, terrorists tossed a grenade at IDF troops.
> 
> According to the IDF, rioters also burned tires and threw rocks, explosive devices and firebombs at soldiers and the border fence.
> 
> 
> Despite Israel-Hamas Ceasefire, Gaza Border Riots Resume


The protests are not a Hamas gig. Israel will have to make a separate agreement with the protestors.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The protests are not a Hamas gig.



A reality based worldview is not your gig. Maybe if you payed attention?

Hamas Leads Violent March, Using Human Shields, at Israeli-Gaza Border


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Any ideas on how to stop terrorists from a neighboring territory? ]




The huge terror kite that managed to reach power lines near Kibbutz Sufa, next to the Gaza border, on Aug. 11, 2018. 

A massive incendiary kite launched from Gaza landed on electric power lines near Kibbutz Sufa on Saturday, sparking an emergency operation by the Israel Electric Company to remove the terror device before it started an arson fire.

The kite caused a power outage and was removed from the high-voltage lines using a crane.

(full article online)

Massive ‘Terror Kite’ from Gaza Successfully Removed from Israeli Power Lines


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Any ideas on how to stop terrorists from a neighboring territory? ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The huge terror kite that managed to reach power lines near Kibbutz Sufa, next to the Gaza border, on Aug. 11, 2018.
> 
> A massive incendiary kite launched from Gaza landed on electric power lines near Kibbutz Sufa on Saturday, sparking an emergency operation by the Israel Electric Company to remove the terror device before it started an arson fire.
> 
> The kite caused a power outage and was removed from the high-voltage lines using a crane.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Massive ‘Terror Kite’ from Gaza Successfully Removed from Israeli Power Lines


What happened to Iron Dome?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The protests are not a Hamas gig.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A reality based worldview is not your gig. Maybe if you payed attention?
> 
> Hamas Leads Violent March, Using Human Shields, at Israeli-Gaza Border
Click to expand...

So you link to an Israeli propaganda site.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The protests are not a Hamas gig.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A reality based worldview is not your gig. Maybe if you payed attention?
> 
> Hamas Leads Violent March, Using Human Shields, at Israeli-Gaza Border
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you link to an Israeli propaganda site.
Click to expand...


So your tender islamo-feelings are hurt because Hamas has failed at their intended goal to breach the Israeli border and “tear the hearts” out of Jooooos?

You should be accustomed to failure by now.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Any ideas on how to stop terrorists from a neighboring territory? ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The huge terror kite that managed to reach power lines near Kibbutz Sufa, next to the Gaza border, on Aug. 11, 2018.
> 
> A massive incendiary kite launched from Gaza landed on electric power lines near Kibbutz Sufa on Saturday, sparking an emergency operation by the Israel Electric Company to remove the terror device before it started an arson fire.
> 
> The kite caused a power outage and was removed from the high-voltage lines using a crane.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Massive ‘Terror Kite’ from Gaza Successfully Removed from Israeli Power Lines





Sixties Fan said:


> [ Any ideas on how to stop terrorists from a neighboring territory? ]


Did Israel go down to talk to them?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Any ideas on how to stop terrorists from a neighboring territory? ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The huge terror kite that managed to reach power lines near Kibbutz Sufa, next to the Gaza border, on Aug. 11, 2018.
> 
> A massive incendiary kite launched from Gaza landed on electric power lines near Kibbutz Sufa on Saturday, sparking an emergency operation by the Israel Electric Company to remove the terror device before it started an arson fire.
> 
> The kite caused a power outage and was removed from the high-voltage lines using a crane.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Massive ‘Terror Kite’ from Gaza Successfully Removed from Israeli Power Lines
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Any ideas on how to stop terrorists from a neighboring territory? ]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did Israel go down to talk to them?
Click to expand...


To talk to them about the weather or about their goals to tear the hearts of the Israelis?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Islamic Jihad tries very hard, and fails, to make balloons look macho ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

8.17.2018

Thousands of Palestinian Arabs rioted on Friday along the security fence with Gaza, hurling several firebombs and IEDs. No injuries to IDF soldiers were reported.

In addition, several suspects crossed into Israel and then immediately retreated to the Gaza Strip.

IDF troops responded with riot dispersal means and fired according to standard operating procedures, said the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit.

(full article online)

Thousands riot along Gaza border


----------



## Hollie

Lots of dead and gimpy Arabs-Moslems and a huge waste of time. 

That seems to typify the waking nightmare that has defined the continuously retrograde disaster of competing Arab-Moslem tribes. 




*Palestinian Kite Protest Fizzles *
June 15, 2018 1:45 PM

Palestinian Kite Protest Fizzles


Robert Berger







JERUSALEM — 

Palestinians in the Gaza Strip held Friday prayers for the Muslim feast of Eid al-Fitr on the tense border with Israel, but plans to set massive brush fires inside the Jewish state did not materialize.

After more than two months of weekly Friday protests on the Gaza border with Israel, the Palestinians turned to a new strategy. Instead of mass marches trying to break down the border fence, they called for smaller numbers to harm Israel in another way.

At a news conference on the border, activists vowed to send 5,000 burning kites and balloons into Israel in honor of Eid al-Fitr, the Muslim feast marking the end of the holy month of Ramadan. They described the operation as a tribute to what they called the Palestinian "martyrs" and wounded.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The islamist gee-had carries consequences.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>




Calling to "rip the heart of Israelis" and running with machete is what Arabs call a 'civil protest'?

Before Israel, her family's main income has been blackmail of Christian pilgrims on the roads to Holy cities. Now she's putting a big eyed kitten face pretending they want freedom, and that they didn't ruin their life by trying to murder Palestinian Jews.

Racketeers never change.


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Calling to "rip the heart of Israelis" and running with machete is what Arabs call a 'civil protest'?
> 
> Before Israel, her family's main income has been blackmail of Christian pilgrims on the roads to Holy cities. Now she's putting a big eyed kitten face pretending they want freedom, and that they didn't ruin their life by trying to murder Palestinian Jews.
> 
> Racketeers never change.
Click to expand...



You can see why Tinmore likes her though -- all spin and no substance.


----------



## Hollie

Such hapless Jackals. 

I was reading a print article with a number of observations about the absurdity of the Islamic Tire Burning Riots. One of the more obvious absurdities involved Islamics calling for “international protection” when as the obvious aggressors, they were becoming a global embarrassment with their failed gee-had which prompted them to whine and moan like petulant children.


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> The islamist gee-had carries consequences.





 it's terrible.  ....the palestinian public [mostly young guys in t-shirts and jeans] being used as pawns to get in the face of the israeli army ?  desperation and despair.  they have no other places to go.  their leaders are terrible examples and mentors.  i guess they all ARE terrorists...except pt dinkmore's crew....  the face-painting-dancing, theatre group people...



  you think any of them are there tossing bomb-balloons?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> 8.17.2018
> 
> Thousands of Palestinian Arabs rioted on Friday along the security fence with Gaza, hurling several firebombs and IEDs. No injuries to IDF soldiers were reported.
> 
> In addition, several suspects crossed into Israel and then immediately retreated to the Gaza Strip.
> 
> IDF troops responded with riot dispersal means and fired according to standard operating procedures, said the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Thousands riot along Gaza border


All of these months and the dumbards in Israel can't think of a solution.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 8.17.2018
> 
> Thousands of Palestinian Arabs rioted on Friday along the security fence with Gaza, hurling several firebombs and IEDs. No injuries to IDF soldiers were reported.
> 
> In addition, several suspects crossed into Israel and then immediately retreated to the Gaza Strip.
> 
> IDF troops responded with riot dispersal means and fired according to standard operating procedures, said the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Thousands riot along Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> All of these months and the dumbards in Israel can't think of a solution.
Click to expand...


All those dead and gimpy gee-had wannabes discovered the israeli solution to Islamic acts of war.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 8.17.2018
> 
> Thousands of Palestinian Arabs rioted on Friday along the security fence with Gaza, hurling several firebombs and IEDs. No injuries to IDF soldiers were reported.
> 
> In addition, several suspects crossed into Israel and then immediately retreated to the Gaza Strip.
> 
> IDF troops responded with riot dispersal means and fired according to standard operating procedures, said the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Thousands riot along Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> All of these months and the dumbards in Israel can't think of a solution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All those dead and gimpy gee-had wannabes discovered the israeli solution to Islamic acts of war.
Click to expand...

Violence is the only thing those dumbards can think of. That does not seem to work.


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 8.17.2018
> 
> Thousands of Palestinian Arabs rioted on Friday along the security fence with Gaza, hurling several firebombs and IEDs. No injuries to IDF soldiers were reported.
> 
> In addition, several suspects crossed into Israel and then immediately retreated to the Gaza Strip.
> 
> IDF troops responded with riot dispersal means and fired according to standard operating procedures, said the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Thousands riot along Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> All of these months and the dumbards in Israel can't think of a solution.
Click to expand...


maybe they should get rid of that flimsy barbed wire fencing and opt for a tall concrete wall - 

. it makes no sense in this day and age and in some situations...erecting a fence as barrier.....is antiquated - [based on kite bombs and balloon bombs] .....while they have the intelligence to...construct & build things and other skills...they still reek of .savagery.  and it _"ain't"_ just "them."


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Protesters Bring Down Israeli Drone Using Stones*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



They're not very smart.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian Protesters Bring Down Israeli Drone Using Stones*
> 
> **





Yes Syrians have a tendency to claim they bring an Israeli jet every Monday and Thursday WITH A RIFLE. 

Gazans are no less pathetic losers.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 8.17.2018
> 
> Thousands of Palestinian Arabs rioted on Friday along the security fence with Gaza, hurling several firebombs and IEDs. No injuries to IDF soldiers were reported.
> 
> In addition, several suspects crossed into Israel and then immediately retreated to the Gaza Strip.
> 
> IDF troops responded with riot dispersal means and fired according to standard operating procedures, said the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Thousands riot along Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> All of these months and the dumbards in Israel can't think of a solution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All those dead and gimpy gee-had wannabes discovered the israeli solution to Islamic acts of war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Violence is the only thing those dumbards can think of. That does not seem to work.
Click to expand...


When suicidal sociopaths are extorting doctors for narcissistic attention supply, 
the treatment in such cases is to show where razors lie, and ask not to bother during the hours of soccer championship.
*
Q. Why should Israelis refuse Jihadi brides their "wedding ceremony"?*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 8.17.2018
> 
> Thousands of Palestinian Arabs rioted on Friday along the security fence with Gaza, hurling several firebombs and IEDs. No injuries to IDF soldiers were reported.
> 
> In addition, several suspects crossed into Israel and then immediately retreated to the Gaza Strip.
> 
> IDF troops responded with riot dispersal means and fired according to standard operating procedures, said the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Thousands riot along Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> All of these months and the dumbards in Israel can't think of a solution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All those dead and gimpy gee-had wannabes discovered the israeli solution to Islamic acts of war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Violence is the only thing those dumbards can think of. That does not seem to work.
Click to expand...


You are still oblivious to the fact that it is your co-religionists inciting the violence. Isreal is defending itself from the gee-had. 

You do need to make at least a mild effort to understand the facts.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 8.17.2018
> 
> Thousands of Palestinian Arabs rioted on Friday along the security fence with Gaza, hurling several firebombs and IEDs. No injuries to IDF soldiers were reported.
> 
> In addition, several suspects crossed into Israel and then immediately retreated to the Gaza Strip.
> 
> IDF troops responded with riot dispersal means and fired according to standard operating procedures, said the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Thousands riot along Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> All of these months and the dumbards in Israel can't think of a solution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All those dead and gimpy gee-had wannabes discovered the israeli solution to Islamic acts of war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Violence is the only thing those dumbards can think of. That does not seem to work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are still oblivious to the fact that it is your co-religionists inciting the violence. Isreal is defending itself from the gee-had.
> 
> You do need to make at least a mild effort to understand the facts.
Click to expand...

There is not a button funny enough for this shit.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 8.17.2018
> 
> Thousands of Palestinian Arabs rioted on Friday along the security fence with Gaza, hurling several firebombs and IEDs. No injuries to IDF soldiers were reported.
> 
> In addition, several suspects crossed into Israel and then immediately retreated to the Gaza Strip.
> 
> IDF troops responded with riot dispersal means and fired according to standard operating procedures, said the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Thousands riot along Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> All of these months and the dumbards in Israel can't think of a solution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All those dead and gimpy gee-had wannabes discovered the israeli solution to Islamic acts of war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Violence is the only thing those dumbards can think of. That does not seem to work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are still oblivious to the fact that it is your co-religionists inciting the violence. Isreal is defending itself from the gee-had.
> 
> You do need to make at least a mild effort to understand the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is not a button funny enough for this shit.
Click to expand...


I should have supplied you with a YouTube video to respond with. You struggle with collecting words into coherent sentences. 

So, what entity initiated the violence at the islamic Tire Burning Riots? 

You keep Islamo-tap dancing around that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All of these months and the dumbards in Israel can't think of a solution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All those dead and gimpy gee-had wannabes discovered the israeli solution to Islamic acts of war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Violence is the only thing those dumbards can think of. That does not seem to work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are still oblivious to the fact that it is your co-religionists inciting the violence. Isreal is defending itself from the gee-had.
> 
> You do need to make at least a mild effort to understand the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is not a button funny enough for this shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I should have supplied you with a YouTube video to respond with. You struggle with collecting words into coherent sentences.
> 
> So, what entity initiated the violence at the islamic Tire Burning Riots?
> 
> You keep Islamo-tap dancing around that.
Click to expand...

Israel's policies.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> All those dead and gimpy gee-had wannabes discovered the israeli solution to Islamic acts of war.
> 
> 
> 
> Violence is the only thing those dumbards can think of. That does not seem to work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are still oblivious to the fact that it is your co-religionists inciting the violence. Isreal is defending itself from the gee-had.
> 
> You do need to make at least a mild effort to understand the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is not a button funny enough for this shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I should have supplied you with a YouTube video to respond with. You struggle with collecting words into coherent sentences.
> 
> So, what entity initiated the violence at the islamic Tire Burning Riots?
> 
> You keep Islamo-tap dancing around that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's policies.
Click to expand...


Defending oneself from the Islamic gee-had as delineated in the Hamas Charter is a policy of self defense.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> So, what entity initiated the violence at the islamic Tire Burning Riots?
> 
> You keep Islamo-tap dancing around that.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's policies.
Click to expand...


Policies like having a State for the Jewish people?


----------



## Sixties Fan

The terrorist who was eliminated in northern Gaza earlier this week after opening fire at IDF soldiers worked as a nurse for the French organization Doctors Without Borders, which operates some 200 workers in Gaza, _Kan 11_reported on Thursday.

The terrorist, Hani Majdalawi, was killed by the IDF after opening fire at Israeli forces and trying to infiltrate into Israel.

The Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories, Major General Kamil Abu-Rukun, wrote on his Arabic language Facebook page, "We wonder how a man who was trained to save lives acquires a weapon in order to cut off lives? Those who are involved in saving lives should help in humanitarian activity in the Gaza Strip and not engage in terrorism."

(full article online)

Terror without borders


----------



## Sixties Fan

Egypt destroys most of the tunnels on Rafah border


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel reopens Erez crossing with Gaza after period of relative calm


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> All those dead and gimpy gee-had wannabes discovered the israeli solution to Islamic acts of war.
> 
> 
> 
> Violence is the only thing those dumbards can think of. That does not seem to work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are still oblivious to the fact that it is your co-religionists inciting the violence. Isreal is defending itself from the gee-had.
> 
> You do need to make at least a mild effort to understand the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is not a button funny enough for this shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I should have supplied you with a YouTube video to respond with. You struggle with collecting words into coherent sentences.
> 
> So, what entity initiated the violence at the islamic Tire Burning Riots?
> 
> You keep Islamo-tap dancing around that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's policies.
Click to expand...





_*"Israel's policies."*_






 ...at least they have them....

 _policies_....

terrorists......are lawless beasts.   ....

 <~~~ terrorists' souls in motion





 ... w_ee_'ins see things differently about _onery_ terrorists.....



terrorists are scum........ 

 _skidaddle on varmint!_


----------



## Sixties Fan

The fires are getting more coverage in Arabic media than in Israeli media.

There aren't as many as there were a month or two ago, when we would see 10 fires being set a day, but any single forest fire can be devastating.

The JNF page says that as of a week ago, their firefighters had been involved in putting out some 1160 blazes since this new form of terrorism emerged.

(Actually, not a new form of terrorism - Arabs have been setting Jewish fields on fire since at least the 1930s.)

(full article online)

By the way, Arabs are still setting fires in southern Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



No mention about Gazan pink bunnies burning down the same crossing through which the receive Israeli goods?

*“Burning balloon” causes fire at Erez Crossing*
A large fire broke out Sunday morning near the Erez Crossing, caused by a burning balloon fired from the Gaza Strip.


----------



## rylah

*Who gains from burning Gaza’s only fuel pipelines?*
*It will take weeks to repair Kerem Shalom's diesel and gasoline terminal after rioters, allegedly directed by Hamas, set them alight*

GAZA BORDER — The Kerem Shalom Crossing is the main, often the only, passageway into the Gaza Strip. Each day, hundreds of trucks travel through it, bringing everything from medical supplies and building materials to pajamas and children’s toys into the beleaguered coastal enclave.

There are two other crossings into Gaza, Erez and Rafah. But Erez is almost solely for pedestrians, and the Egyptian-controlled Rafah is kept closed the vast majority of the time. This leaves Kerem Shalom as the most important lifeline for Gaza, which has been subject to a strict blockade by both Israel and Egypt for the past 11 years in order to prevent terrorist groups from bringing weapons into the Strip.

Yet just after 6:00 p.m. Friday at the tail end of that day’s mass “March of Return” protest, a group of some 200 Palestinians broke into the Gaza side of the crossing and set fire to the Strip’s only fuel terminal and a conveyor belt used for raw construction materials. Two conveyor belts which brought animal feed into Gaza were also wrecked, according to the deputy director of the crossing.







On Saturday night, Israel announced it would be keeping the crossing closed as it assessed the damage and determined how to bring Kerem Shalom back online. The army said exceptions would be made for humanitarian goods.

Who gains from burning Gaza’s only fuel pipelines?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Did you somehow miss the news about Arabs-Moslems attempting to crash the Israeli border and "tear the hearts out" of the Jews?

Do you presume an entitlement to acts of war without consequence?


----------



## Sixties Fan

After many months of incendiary kites and mortar fire, farmers from the Gaza vicinity flew on Monday night to The Hague to file a lawsuit against Hamas with the International Criminal Court.

The lawsuit, which will be submitted through the "Shurat Hadin" organization, will be on behalf of the farmers and another 50,000 people from Israel and around the world who joined the lawsuit against senior Hamas figures.

The suit will focus on Hamas violations of the Rome Statute, including the use of children in warfare, use of a civilian population as human shields, attacking Israel's borders, and the burning of civilians' agricultural fields via incendiary balloons.

At the same time, a special exhibition will be displayed opposite the International Court Building, documenting the damage caused by the incendiary kites and mortar attacks in the Gaza vicinity.

(full article online)

Gaza-area farmers sue Hamas in International Court


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> After many months of incendiary kites and mortar fire, farmers from the Gaza vicinity flew on Monday night to The Hague to file a lawsuit against Hamas with the International Criminal Court.
> 
> The lawsuit, which will be submitted through the "Shurat Hadin" organization, will be on behalf of the farmers and another 50,000 people from Israel and around the world who joined the lawsuit against senior Hamas figures.
> 
> The suit will focus on Hamas violations of the Rome Statute, including the use of children in warfare, use of a civilian population as human shields, attacking Israel's borders, and the burning of civilians' agricultural fields via incendiary balloons.
> 
> At the same time, a special exhibition will be displayed opposite the International Court Building, documenting the damage caused by the incendiary kites and mortar attacks in the Gaza vicinity.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gaza-area farmers sue Hamas in International Court


Israel is not a member of the ICC.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> After many months of incendiary kites and mortar fire, farmers from the Gaza vicinity flew on Monday night to The Hague to file a lawsuit against Hamas with the International Criminal Court.
> 
> The lawsuit, which will be submitted through the "Shurat Hadin" organization, will be on behalf of the farmers and another 50,000 people from Israel and around the world who joined the lawsuit against senior Hamas figures.
> 
> The suit will focus on Hamas violations of the Rome Statute, including the use of children in warfare, use of a civilian population as human shields, attacking Israel's borders, and the burning of civilians' agricultural fields via incendiary balloons.
> 
> At the same time, a special exhibition will be displayed opposite the International Court Building, documenting the damage caused by the incendiary kites and mortar attacks in the Gaza vicinity.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gaza-area farmers sue Hamas in International Court
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is not a member of the ICC.
Click to expand...


The PA is.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel is not a member of the ICC.



Individuals and organizations can bring claims (communications) to the Court.  Has nothing to do with Israel.  Its is a claim by individuals through an organization against the government of Gaza (the PA).  The success of the application will depend on whether the Court sees Hamas as part of the PA (within jurisdiction) or if there is a UNSC resolution which the applicants can use to force jurisdiction.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is not a member of the ICC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Individuals and organizations can bring claims (communications) to the Court.  Has nothing to do with Israel.  Its is a claim by individuals through an organization against the government of Gaza (the PA).  The success of the application will depend on whether the Court sees Hamas as part of the PA (within jurisdiction) or if there is a UNSC resolution which the applicants can use to force jurisdiction.
Click to expand...

Israel has created a law free zone. It cannot thumb its nose at international law and then go seek its protection.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is not a member of the ICC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Individuals and organizations can bring claims (communications) to the Court.  Has nothing to do with Israel.  Its is a claim by individuals through an organization against the government of Gaza (the PA).  The success of the application will depend on whether the Court sees Hamas as part of the PA (within jurisdiction) or if there is a UNSC resolution which the applicants can use to force jurisdiction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has created a law free zone. It cannot thumb its nose at international law and then go seek its protection.
Click to expand...


Will this be another of your silly lectures on international law?

Please devote one of your lectures to Arabs-Moslems committing acts of war and with the expected Israeli response, Arabs-Moslems demanding “international protection”. 

I always get a chuckle from your Baghdad Bob themed lecture series.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is not a member of the ICC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Individuals and organizations can bring claims (communications) to the Court.  Has nothing to do with Israel.  Its is a claim by individuals through an organization against the government of Gaza (the PA).  The success of the application will depend on whether the Court sees Hamas as part of the PA (within jurisdiction) or if there is a UNSC resolution which the applicants can use to force jurisdiction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has created a law free zone. It cannot thumb its nose at international law and then go seek its protection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Will this be another of your silly lectures on international law?
> 
> Please devote one of your lectures to Arabs-Moslems committing acts of war and with the expected Israeli response, Arabs-Moslems demanding “international protection”.
> 
> I always get a chuckle from your Baghdad Bob themed lecture series.
Click to expand...

The Palestinians have supposedly been violating international law for decades. Why has nobody been taken to the Hague?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is not a member of the ICC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Individuals and organizations can bring claims (communications) to the Court.  Has nothing to do with Israel.  Its is a claim by individuals through an organization against the government of Gaza (the PA).  The success of the application will depend on whether the Court sees Hamas as part of the PA (within jurisdiction) or if there is a UNSC resolution which the applicants can use to force jurisdiction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has created a law free zone. It cannot thumb its nose at international law and then go seek its protection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Will this be another of your silly lectures on international law?
> 
> Please devote one of your lectures to Arabs-Moslems committing acts of war and with the expected Israeli response, Arabs-Moslems demanding “international protection”.
> 
> I always get a chuckle from your Baghdad Bob themed lecture series.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have supposedly been violating international law for decades. Why has nobody been taken to the Hague?
Click to expand...


It would be interesting to see one or more of the Hamas terrorist leadership hauled up before the Hague.  Do you think an Islamic terrorist syndicate would appear?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is not a member of the ICC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Individuals and organizations can bring claims (communications) to the Court.  Has nothing to do with Israel.  Its is a claim by individuals through an organization against the government of Gaza (the PA).  The success of the application will depend on whether the Court sees Hamas as part of the PA (within jurisdiction) or if there is a UNSC resolution which the applicants can use to force jurisdiction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has created a law free zone. It cannot thumb its nose at international law and then go seek its protection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Will this be another of your silly lectures on international law?
> 
> Please devote one of your lectures to Arabs-Moslems committing acts of war and with the expected Israeli response, Arabs-Moslems demanding “international protection”.
> 
> I always get a chuckle from your Baghdad Bob themed lecture series.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have supposedly been violating international law for decades. Why has nobody been taken to the Hague?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It would be interesting to see one or more of the Hamas terrorist leadership hauled up before the Hague.  Do you think an Islamic terrorist syndicate would appear?
Click to expand...

Why has Israel been pissing and moaning about the Palestinian's violation of international law but has done nothing.

Perhaps Israel does not have a case.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Individuals and organizations can bring claims (communications) to the Court.  Has nothing to do with Israel.  Its is a claim by individuals through an organization against the government of Gaza (the PA).  The success of the application will depend on whether the Court sees Hamas as part of the PA (within jurisdiction) or if there is a UNSC resolution which the applicants can use to force jurisdiction.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has created a law free zone. It cannot thumb its nose at international law and then go seek its protection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Will this be another of your silly lectures on international law?
> 
> Please devote one of your lectures to Arabs-Moslems committing acts of war and with the expected Israeli response, Arabs-Moslems demanding “international protection”.
> 
> I always get a chuckle from your Baghdad Bob themed lecture series.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have supposedly been violating international law for decades. Why has nobody been taken to the Hague?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It would be interesting to see one or more of the Hamas terrorist leadership hauled up before the Hague.  Do you think an Islamic terrorist syndicate would appear?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why has Israel been pissing and moaning about the Palestinian's violation of international law but has done nothing.
> 
> Perhaps Israel does not have a case.
Click to expand...


Perhaps you're befuddled.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has created a law free zone. It cannot thumb its nose at international law and then go seek its protection.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will this be another of your silly lectures on international law?
> 
> Please devote one of your lectures to Arabs-Moslems committing acts of war and with the expected Israeli response, Arabs-Moslems demanding “international protection”.
> 
> I always get a chuckle from your Baghdad Bob themed lecture series.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have supposedly been violating international law for decades. Why has nobody been taken to the Hague?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It would be interesting to see one or more of the Hamas terrorist leadership hauled up before the Hague.  Do you think an Islamic terrorist syndicate would appear?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why has Israel been pissing and moaning about the Palestinian's violation of international law but has done nothing.
> 
> Perhaps Israel does not have a case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Perhaps you're befuddled.
Click to expand...

Deflection.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Individuals and organizations can bring claims (communications) to the Court.  Has nothing to do with Israel.  Its is a claim by individuals through an organization against the government of Gaza (the PA).  The success of the application will depend on whether the Court sees Hamas as part of the PA (within jurisdiction) or if there is a UNSC resolution which the applicants can use to force jurisdiction.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has created a law free zone. It cannot thumb its nose at international law and then go seek its protection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Will this be another of your silly lectures on international law?
> 
> Please devote one of your lectures to Arabs-Moslems committing acts of war and with the expected Israeli response, Arabs-Moslems demanding “international protection”.
> 
> I always get a chuckle from your Baghdad Bob themed lecture series.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have supposedly been violating international law for decades. Why has nobody been taken to the Hague?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It would be interesting to see one or more of the Hamas terrorist leadership hauled up before the Hague.  Do you think an Islamic terrorist syndicate would appear?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why has Israel been pissing and moaning about the Palestinian's violation of international law but has done nothing.
> 
> Perhaps Israel does not have a case.
Click to expand...

As usual You're making a desperate attempt to defy common sense.

Israel is the only one who has the ability to confront those violations on the PLO/Hamas side, which it inarguably does through a variety of governmental instruments.

.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has created a law free zone. It cannot thumb its nose at international law and then go seek its protection.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will this be another of your silly lectures on international law?
> 
> Please devote one of your lectures to Arabs-Moslems committing acts of war and with the expected Israeli response, Arabs-Moslems demanding “international protection”.
> 
> I always get a chuckle from your Baghdad Bob themed lecture series.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have supposedly been violating international law for decades. Why has nobody been taken to the Hague?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It would be interesting to see one or more of the Hamas terrorist leadership hauled up before the Hague.  Do you think an Islamic terrorist syndicate would appear?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why has Israel been pissing and moaning about the Palestinian's violation of international law but has done nothing.
> 
> Perhaps Israel does not have a case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As usual You're making a desperate attempt to defy common sense.
> 
> Israel is the only one who has the ability to confront those violations on the PLO/Hamas side, which it inarguably does through a variety of governmental instruments.
> 
> .
Click to expand...

Oh really? Israel has been killing Palestinian civilians and stealing or destroying civilian property for 70 years. During that time Fatah was formed, also the PFLP, PLO, Hamas, Islamic Jihad. I don't see any of them going away soon.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Will this be another of your silly lectures on international law?
> 
> Please devote one of your lectures to Arabs-Moslems committing acts of war and with the expected Israeli response, Arabs-Moslems demanding “international protection”.
> 
> I always get a chuckle from your Baghdad Bob themed lecture series.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have supposedly been violating international law for decades. Why has nobody been taken to the Hague?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It would be interesting to see one or more of the Hamas terrorist leadership hauled up before the Hague.  Do you think an Islamic terrorist syndicate would appear?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why has Israel been pissing and moaning about the Palestinian's violation of international law but has done nothing.
> 
> Perhaps Israel does not have a case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Perhaps you're befuddled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
Click to expand...

You’re waving the flag of surrender again.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.



That’s a bit like thinking you’re endless cutting and pasting of goofy YouTube videos is anything but pointless,


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That’s a bit like thinking you’re endless cutting and pasting of goofy YouTube videos is anything but pointless,
Click to expand...

Maybe to you. I post for people who want to learn something.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That’s a bit like thinking you’re endless cutting and pasting of goofy YouTube videos is anything but pointless,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe to you. I post for people who want to learn something.
Click to expand...


Indeed, your silly Pallywood Production and Iranian Mullocrat sponsored Press TV propaganda videos are mere comedy gold.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Will this be another of your silly lectures on international law?
> 
> Please devote one of your lectures to Arabs-Moslems committing acts of war and with the expected Israeli response, Arabs-Moslems demanding “international protection”.
> 
> I always get a chuckle from your Baghdad Bob themed lecture series.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have supposedly been violating international law for decades. Why has nobody been taken to the Hague?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It would be interesting to see one or more of the Hamas terrorist leadership hauled up before the Hague.  Do you think an Islamic terrorist syndicate would appear?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why has Israel been pissing and moaning about the Palestinian's violation of international law but has done nothing.
> 
> Perhaps Israel does not have a case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As usual You're making a desperate attempt to defy common sense.
> 
> Israel is the only one who has the ability to confront those violations on the PLO/Hamas side, which it inarguably does through a variety of governmental instruments.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh really? Israel has been killing Palestinian civilians and stealing or destroying civilian property for 70 years. During that time Fatah was formed, also the PFLP, PLO, Hamas, Islamic Jihad. I don't see any of them going away soon.
> 
> Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Click to expand...


I don't understand Your complaints, 
when mass suicide is a national objective what results does one expect? 

Explain to me


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Oh look!!!  They are still at it !!!!
March of return?  No.   March to invade Israel and kill Jews.  ]

Rioting reported as thousands gather at Gaza border in weekly protests


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF strikes terrorists launching balloon bombs from Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

Earlier on Friday, an IDF aircraft fired on a terrorist squad that launched firebombs attached to balloons in northern Gaza.

(full article online)

IDF attacks Hamas observation posts


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Oh look!!!  They are still at it !!!!
> March of return?  No.   March to invade Israel and kill Jews.  ]
> 
> Rioting reported as thousands gather at Gaza border in weekly protests


So, what is Israel doing to solve the problem?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Oh look!!!  They are still at it !!!!
> March of return?  No.   March to invade Israel and kill Jews.  ]
> 
> Rioting reported as thousands gather at Gaza border in weekly protests
> 
> 
> 
> So, what is Israel doing to solve the problem?
Click to expand...


Israel is solving the problem of islamic terrorists attempting to breach its border by vigorously defending that border. 

What are Arabs-Moslems doing to solve their endemic problems which include retrograde thinking and self destruction? Both those maladies are antithetical to human rights and to the spirit of inquiry and openness which led most of the planet out of the darkness of theocratic totalitarianism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Oh look!!!  They are still at it !!!!
> March of return?  No.   March to invade Israel and kill Jews.  ]
> 
> Rioting reported as thousands gather at Gaza border in weekly protests
> 
> 
> 
> So, what is Israel doing to solve the problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is solving the problem of islamic terrorists attempting to breach its border by vigorously defending that border.
> 
> What are Arabs-Moslems doing to solve their endemic problems which include retrograde thinking and self destruction? Both those maladies are antithetical to human rights and to the spirit of inquiry and openness which led most of the planet out of the darkness of theocratic totalitarianism.
Click to expand...

Do  you have links?

Of course not.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Oh look!!!  They are still at it !!!!
> March of return?  No.   March to invade Israel and kill Jews.  ]
> 
> Rioting reported as thousands gather at Gaza border in weekly protests
> 
> 
> 
> So, what is Israel doing to solve the problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is solving the problem of islamic terrorists attempting to breach its border by vigorously defending that border.
> 
> What are Arabs-Moslems doing to solve their endemic problems which include retrograde thinking and self destruction? Both those maladies are antithetical to human rights and to the spirit of inquiry and openness which led most of the planet out of the darkness of theocratic totalitarianism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do  you have links?
> 
> Of course not.
Click to expand...


Do you need links to the Tire Burning Riots being waged by Islamics?

Do you need links to understand the hatred, xenophobia, and all-around intolerance that is inherent to a religious ideology which engenders such hatreds for infidels, women and everyone else who is non-islamist?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Oh look!!!  They are still at it !!!!
> March of return?  No.   March to invade Israel and kill Jews.  ]
> 
> Rioting reported as thousands gather at Gaza border in weekly protests
> 
> 
> 
> So, what is Israel doing to solve the problem?
Click to expand...


What is Israel doing to solve the problem?


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Oh look!!!  They are still at it !!!!
> March of return?  No.   March to invade Israel and kill Jews.  ]
> 
> Rioting reported as thousands gather at Gaza border in weekly protests
> 
> 
> 
> So, what is Israel doing to solve the problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is solving the problem of islamic terrorists attempting to breach its border by vigorously defending that border.
> 
> What are Arabs-Moslems doing to solve their endemic problems which include retrograde thinking and self destruction? Both those maladies are antithetical to human rights and to the spirit of inquiry and openness which led most of the planet out of the darkness of theocratic totalitarianism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do  you have links?
> 
> Of course not.
Click to expand...




what's...your stance again ?   

 Abbass is leaving, you're 

 elected -- the peace process, what would you propose to help it along ?  *realistically*.  and, what about the terrorists ?





you can't overlook them....




...any 

 infrastructure ideas? what about jobs, do the wives of the palestinian terrorists have jobs ? do they [hamass leaders] send their own sons and daughters with kites to protest at border 

 _buffer zon_es...?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

member said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ Oh look!!!  They are still at it !!!!
> March of return?  No.   March to invade Israel and kill Jews.  ]
> 
> Rioting reported as thousands gather at Gaza border in weekly protests
> 
> 
> 
> So, what is Israel doing to solve the problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is solving the problem of islamic terrorists attempting to breach its border by vigorously defending that border.
> 
> What are Arabs-Moslems doing to solve their endemic problems which include retrograde thinking and self destruction? Both those maladies are antithetical to human rights and to the spirit of inquiry and openness which led most of the planet out of the darkness of theocratic totalitarianism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do  you have links?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what's...your stance again ?
> 
> Abbass is leaving, you're
> 
> elected -- the peace process, what would you propose to help it along ?  *realistically*.  and, what about the terrorists ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you can't overlook them....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...any
> 
> infrastructure ideas? what about jobs, do the wives of the palestinian terrorists have jobs ? do they [hamass leaders] send their own sons and daughters with kites to protest at border
> 
> _buffer zon_es...?
Click to expand...


I have asked s similar question regarding “ Right of Return” and terrorists groups who might vow to destroy Israel from the inside and the response I got was “ It’s their problem” “ Right of Return” “ Universal Law” ( doesn’t exist) also states LIVE IN PEACE WITH YOUR NEIGHBORS.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Army shoots and kills Palestinian trying to sabotage Gaza border fence


----------



## Sixties Fan

Thousands rally near northern sea border. Rioters hurl rocks and bomb at troops, who respond with tear gas, live fire; navy pushes back flotilla’s attempt to break through blockade

(full article online)

Navy fires in warning as Gazans try to sail burning tires on rafts toward Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



How nice that shiftless welfare fraud recipients have so much time to spend doing nothing.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How nice that shiftless welfare fraud recipients have so much time to spend doing nothing.
Click to expand...


After all that tea they are probably going to the bathroom in Holes they dug.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How nice that shiftless welfare fraud recipients have so much time to spend doing nothing.
Click to expand...

Israel destroyed their factories and farmland, what else are they to do?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How nice that shiftless welfare fraud recipients have so much time to spend doing nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel destroyed their factories and farmland, what else are they to do?
Click to expand...


They should move to Saudi Arabia.....or Syria.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How nice that shiftless welfare fraud recipients have so much time to spend doing nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel destroyed their factories and farmland, what else are they to do?
Click to expand...


They can do what they usually do. 

Palestinian rioters sabotage Gaza’s own gas lines for 2nd straight week


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How nice that shiftless welfare fraud recipients have so much time to spend doing nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel destroyed their factories and farmland, what else are they to do?
Click to expand...



...sounds very heavy handed.  

 what brought it about again?  what led up to those 2 or ..4? factories being destroyed and farms being steam-rolled over?  WHY again?

The military just rolled-in and started flattening the farmers land ?  or was it _after_ the terrorists 

 did something...horribly terroristic and required "regular" military action?


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ we must remember ......that a Muslim word to a Jew, is nothing more than a waiting time until they attack again.....until "they" win ]

Islamic Jihad released this video showing their own masked terrorists launching balloons towards Israel and some of the fires they claim to have started.

Members of the "Baraq Unit" attached photos of their favorite terrorists - including Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah - to balloons along with the burning materials meant to start fires in Israel.



Despite rumors of an agreement to stop these attacks, they continue and thousands of acres in Israel have burned.

(full article online)

New video of terrorists launching arson balloons into Israel; 8000 acres lost so far ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Child killed in Gaza Friday definitely not shot by Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ we must remember ......that a Muslim word to a Jew, is nothing more than a waiting time until they attack again.....until "they" win ]
> 
> Islamic Jihad released this video showing their own masked terrorists launching balloons towards Israel and some of the fires they claim to have started.
> 
> Members of the "Baraq Unit" attached photos of their favorite terrorists - including Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah - to balloons along with the burning materials meant to start fires in Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Despite rumors of an agreement to stop these attacks, they continue and thousands of acres in Israel have burned.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> New video of terrorists launching arson balloons into Israel; 8000 acres lost so far ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News





Sixties Fan said:


> Despite rumors of an agreement to stop these attacks, they continue and thousands of acres in Israel have burned.


What agreement?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ we must remember ......that a Muslim word to a Jew, is nothing more than a waiting time until they attack again.....until "they" win ]
> 
> Islamic Jihad released this video showing their own masked terrorists launching balloons towards Israel and some of the fires they claim to have started.
> 
> Members of the "Baraq Unit" attached photos of their favorite terrorists - including Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah - to balloons along with the burning materials meant to start fires in Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Despite rumors of an agreement to stop these attacks, they continue and thousands of acres in Israel have burned.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> New video of terrorists launching arson balloons into Israel; 8000 acres lost so far ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Despite rumors of an agreement to stop these attacks, they continue and thousands of acres in Israel have burned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What agreement?
Click to expand...

You are being so cute today.
I cannot wait for your next short "nothings"


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Now, where could they have learned that? ]

 A yellow balloon with Arabic writing on it landed in the Israeli community of Beit Horon north of Jerusalem on Sunday, and is believed to be an incendiary “terror balloon” like the ones that have been launched from Gaza to start arson fires along the border inside Israel.

(full article online)

Incendiary Balloons Flown to Israel From West Bank


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Those poor, poor Palestinians.  If "only" they could fight fair and square, their military against the IDF. But no.  Incite the Palestinian civilian population and make them feel like the greatest victims in history ]

Incendiary balloon with hand grenade attached lands in Western Negev


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ It is a Jewish Holiday.....lets invade Israel.....]

Dozens of Gazans infiltrate into Israel


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Sixties Fan said:


> [ It is a Jewish Holiday.....lets invade Israel.....]
> 
> Dozens of Gazans infiltrate into Israel



Napalm...….


----------



## Sixties Fan

Incendiary balloon explodes, IDF attacks in Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/eye...id-border-clashes-balloon-attacks/2018/09/23/


----------



## Sixties Fan

(full article online)

Video and photos of Gaza children trying to cut Gaza fence. Of course Hamas sends them. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> (full article online)
> 
> Video and photos of Gaza children trying to cut Gaza fence. Of course Hamas sends them. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



The treatment of Gazan children by their own communities is appalling.


----------



## member

Shusha said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Video and photos of Gaza children trying to cut Gaza fence. Of course Hamas sends them. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The treatment of Gazan children by their own communities is appalling.
Click to expand...





*"The treatment of Gazan children by their own communities is appalling..."*




 to an extent like this........sorry, it's his parents fault too, not just ...community influence.. 


_*"Gazan Children trying to cut fence"*_



 where's mom & dad ? awful.  Jr. jihadists....it's a vicious cycle.  If he lives long enough...this kid may become the new leader of hamasss someday if hamass doesn't disband and turn the other cheek...........

this life 

 we can't comprehend it.  hope the vicious cycle ends ..


----------



## Sixties Fan

[March of return, an endless excuse to attack Israel and Jews ]

IDF aircraft on Friday evening carried out an attack in northern Gaza in response to a number of grenades and explosive devices that were thrown at Israeli forces during violent disturbances along the security fence.

In addition, the forces identified a number of suspects who crossed the security fence in northern Gaza, and immediately fled back to Gaza territory.

More than 10,000 rioters gathered along the Gaza border fence on Friday afternoon as part of the ongoing violence in the area.

The demonstrators hurled grenades and explosive devices, burned tires and threw rocks at Israeli forces and at the fence. There were no injuries and no damage.

The Israeli troops responded by using riot dispersal means and opening fire in accordance with the rules of engagement.

The so-called “March of the Return” border riots have been ongoing every Friday since March 30, but in recent days have become more frequent.

(full article online)

IDF carries out attack in Gaza as riots continue


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [March of return, an endless excuse to attack Israel and Jews ]
> 
> IDF aircraft on Friday evening carried out an attack in northern Gaza in response to a number of grenades and explosive devices that were thrown at Israeli forces during violent disturbances along the security fence.
> 
> In addition, the forces identified a number of suspects who crossed the security fence in northern Gaza, and immediately fled back to Gaza territory.
> 
> More than 10,000 rioters gathered along the Gaza border fence on Friday afternoon as part of the ongoing violence in the area.
> 
> The demonstrators hurled grenades and explosive devices, burned tires and threw rocks at Israeli forces and at the fence. There were no injuries and no damage.
> 
> The Israeli troops responded by using riot dispersal means and opening fire in accordance with the rules of engagement.
> 
> The so-called “March of the Return” border riots have been ongoing every Friday since March 30, but in recent days have become more frequent.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> IDF carries out attack in Gaza as riots continue


Six months of protests and Israel is still clueless.

Brilliant.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [March of return, an endless excuse to attack Israel and Jews ]
> 
> IDF aircraft on Friday evening carried out an attack in northern Gaza in response to a number of grenades and explosive devices that were thrown at Israeli forces during violent disturbances along the security fence.
> 
> In addition, the forces identified a number of suspects who crossed the security fence in northern Gaza, and immediately fled back to Gaza territory.
> 
> More than 10,000 rioters gathered along the Gaza border fence on Friday afternoon as part of the ongoing violence in the area.
> 
> The demonstrators hurled grenades and explosive devices, burned tires and threw rocks at Israeli forces and at the fence. There were no injuries and no damage.
> 
> The Israeli troops responded by using riot dispersal means and opening fire in accordance with the rules of engagement.
> 
> The so-called “March of the Return” border riots have been ongoing every Friday since March 30, but in recent days have become more frequent.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> IDF carries out attack in Gaza as riots continue
> 
> 
> 
> Six months of protests and Israel is still clueless.
> 
> Brilliant.
Click to expand...


You're rather befuddled. Six months of the Islamic gee-had and islamics are worse off now than six months ago. 

Indeed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [March of return, an endless excuse to attack Israel and Jews ]
> 
> IDF aircraft on Friday evening carried out an attack in northern Gaza in response to a number of grenades and explosive devices that were thrown at Israeli forces during violent disturbances along the security fence.
> 
> In addition, the forces identified a number of suspects who crossed the security fence in northern Gaza, and immediately fled back to Gaza territory.
> 
> More than 10,000 rioters gathered along the Gaza border fence on Friday afternoon as part of the ongoing violence in the area.
> 
> The demonstrators hurled grenades and explosive devices, burned tires and threw rocks at Israeli forces and at the fence. There were no injuries and no damage.
> 
> The Israeli troops responded by using riot dispersal means and opening fire in accordance with the rules of engagement.
> 
> The so-called “March of the Return” border riots have been ongoing every Friday since March 30, but in recent days have become more frequent.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> IDF carries out attack in Gaza as riots continue
> 
> 
> 
> Six months of protests and Israel is still clueless.
> 
> Brilliant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're rather befuddled. Six months of the Islamic gee-had and islamics are worse off now than six months ago.
> 
> Indeed.
Click to expand...

Deflection.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*No evidence a single Gaza protester killed by Israel was armed*

Not one of the more than 140 Palestinian protesters, journalists or medics killed during the mass protests along Gaza’s eastern boundary since 30 March were armed when they were targeted by Israeli occupation forces.

That point was stressed by the Gaza-based human rights group Al Mezan during a meeting of the United Nations Human Rights Council in Geneva on Monday.

Human Rights Watch meanwhile told the council that it “has not documented instances where protesters posed an imminent threat to life.”

No evidence a single Gaza protester killed by Israel was armed


----------



## Hollie

*IDF: Israeli aircraft targets armed Palestinian approaching Gaza fence*

*https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-israeli-aircraft-targets-armed-palestinian-approaching-gaza-fence/*

*Hamas-run health ministry says man dies of injuries; incident comes day before Palestinians are due to again demonstrate along the border*
By JUDAH ARI GROSS5 April 2018, 9:36 am  5






Live by the gee-had, die by the gee-had Lockheed Martin.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Incendiary balloons from Gaza spark two fires in south


----------



## Sixties Fan

Over 20,000 Palestinians gathered at five locations along Gaza’s border with Israel Friday in response to calls by Hamas, the terrorist group that rules the Strip.

“IMAGINE: A mob of 20K people, throwing bombs & grenades, attempting to reach your home. The people of southern Israel don’t have to imagine; this is happening right now on Israel’s border fence with Gaza. Our troops are there to do what is necessary to protect Israeli civilians,” the IDF tweeted on Friday.

IDF soldiers responded with tear gas and gunfire, resulting in at least seven deaths and 90 wounded. Two of the dead were children, aged 12 and 14, the Gaza Health Ministry said.

The next day, the IDF said it neutralized over 100 bombs and grenades thrown at them during the rioting and posted photos of explosive material that it found in Israeli territory.

(full article online)

WATCH: IDF Protects Israelis from Massive, Violent Gaza Mobs


----------



## P F Tinmore

*International Law, Seeking Justice, and the Great March of Return in Gaza*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *International Law, Seeking Justice, and the Great March of Return in Gaza*



How does international law address the islamist gee-had, Islamic attacks on the border, etc.?

Shirley, you have a youtube video?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *International Law, Seeking Justice, and the Great March of Return in Gaza*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How does international law address the islamist gee-had, Islamic attacks on the border, etc.?
> 
> Shirley, you have a youtube video?
Click to expand...


At least he’s not showing You Tube Videos anymore of Hasidic Jews chanting that Israel has no right to exist.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The IDF blocked several roads near the border between Israel and Gaza Friday, ahead of clashes that are expected to take place later in the day.

Defense Minister Avigdor Liberman warned Hamas earlier: "We made it through the Tishrei holidays as we had planned," he tweeted. "There was no escalation, and rioters on the Gaza border paid a high price. We are past the holidays now, and I am telling Hamas's leaders: 'Take this into account.'

(full article online)

IDF blocks roads near Gaza border ahead of clashes


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gaza 'kite terror' sparks large fire in southern Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Gaza 'kite terror' sparks large fire in southern Israel


Israel can end its war any time it wants.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza 'kite terror' sparks large fire in southern Israel
> 
> 
> 
> Israel can end its war any time it wants.
Click to expand...


It is not israel’s war. 

The Tire Burning gee-had is just emblematic of Islamic ideological hate, ignorance and intolerance.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

This is another one of those trick political statements that sound true, but are actually false. 



P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza 'kite terror' sparks large fire in southern Israel
> 
> 
> 
> Israel can end its war any time it wants.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

As long as the Arab Palestinians pose a threat to the peace and security in the West Bank, so long will the Israelis remain to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.

The HR Article 43 is only one concern.  There are more.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arabs purposefully set fires all over Jewish-owned lands in Palestine for a very long time. Here is only one of dozens of articles about it, this from 1938:

There's nothing new - except that now Jews can defend themselves and fight back.

Which is the only reason why things aren't nearly as bad as they were in the 1930s.

(full article online)

Arab terrorists have been setting fires to Jewish fields for decades ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gaza’s Great Return March has lasted half a year *

The Great March of Return by Palestinians in the Gaza Strip will enter its seventh month Sept. 28.

The mobilization, launched by tens of thousands in the besieged coastal enclave on March 30 — Palestine’s annual Land Day — demands the right of return for millions of Palestinian refugees driven from their homes by Zionist militias and Israeli occupation forces starting in December 1947.

These ethnic-cleansing operations both separated ancient Gaza City and a sliver of land around it from the rest of Palestine and transformed the newly isolated territory’s demographics overnight.

Today two-thirds of Gaza’s population are refugees from outside the enclave, many from nearby cities and villages within sight of Gaza itself.

Gaza’s Great Return March has lasted half a year


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Palestinian Arabs.  All innocent unarmed civilians, who just want to go "back home"  ]


Salah Al-Din Brigades memorializes one of their militant members in recently released video. He was killed at the #Gaza border participating in clashes against #IDF troops. Just another example of militants participating in border clashes at the security fence. #Israel























Joe on Twitter


----------



## Hollie

The Palestinian Refugee Scam


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Gaza’s Great Return March has lasted half a year *
> 
> The Great March of Return by Palestinians in the Gaza Strip will enter its seventh month Sept. 28.
> 
> The mobilization, launched by tens of thousands in the besieged coastal enclave on March 30 — Palestine’s annual Land Day — demands the right of return for millions of Palestinian refugees driven from their homes by Zionist militias and Israeli occupation forces starting in December 1947.
> 
> These ethnic-cleansing operations both separated ancient Gaza City and a sliver of land around it from the rest of Palestine and transformed the newly isolated territory’s demographics overnight.
> 
> Today two-thirds of Gaza’s population are refugees from outside the enclave, many from nearby cities and villages within sight of Gaza itself.
> 
> Gaza’s Great Return March has lasted half a year




Gee. Do you think they've convinced Israel of their peaceful intentions yet?  Maybe a few more stabbing attacks will do the trick?  Or something big like a bus bomb?  Or maybe they can start exporting poisoned produce to Israel. That will convince them.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Gaza’s Great Return March has lasted half a year*



Arabs-Moslems pursuing the goals of the Hamas Charter.


----------



## Sixties Fan

In the last few weeks, several children have been reported killed in the border clashes with Gaza.  How does this happen?  Why are children in a battle zone, instead of in school?

Sadly, the children are bought to the combat zone deliberately, either by their parents and family members






or in free buses organized by Hamas, who regards the death of children as a win important tool in their efforts to demonize Israel.





(full article online)

Pro-Israel Bay Bloggers: Gaza children deliberately transported to war zones


----------



## Sixties Fan

Incendiary Balloons Reach Northwest Negev Forest


----------



## Sixties Fan

Save the Children from the Independent


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Gaza’s Great Return March has lasted half a year *
> 
> The Great March of Return by Palestinians in the Gaza Strip will enter its seventh month Sept. 28.
> 
> The mobilization, launched by tens of thousands in the besieged coastal enclave on March 30 — Palestine’s annual Land Day — demands the right of return for millions of Palestinian refugees driven from their homes by Zionist militias and Israeli occupation forces starting in December 1947.
> 
> These ethnic-cleansing operations both separated ancient Gaza City and a sliver of land around it from the rest of Palestine and transformed the newly isolated territory’s demographics overnight.
> 
> Today two-thirds of Gaza’s population are refugees from outside the enclave, many from nearby cities and villages within sight of Gaza itself.
> 
> Gaza’s Great Return March has lasted half a year



“ Right of Return “ for “ millions of “ Palestinian Refugees?”


----------



## Sixties Fan

By “saving lives”, the ‘protester’ of course was referring to the hope that, by operating under the cover of darkness, they could engage in violent actions on the border with greater impunity.

However, a report in The National included a quote by a Israeli military official who said “the night protests do not pose a new challenge” given the night vision equipment used by soldiers.  So, it seems, despite the Palestinian claim uncritically cited in the Guardian, the new tactic of engaging in violence against soldiers or attempting to infiltrate the border at night will not “save lives”.

But, beyond the narrow claim regarding whether such new tactics will save lives, it’s remarkable that reporters like Holmes never seem interested in exploring the more vital questions concerning the impact of a Palestinian culture which encourages civilians – including young children – into situations likely to result in serious injury or death.

As former AP Jerusalem correspondent Matti Friedman wrote in his landmark 2014 expose on institutional anti-Israel media bias and the liberal racism of low expectations, “Palestinians are not taken seriously as agents of their own fate.”  “The story mandates”, Friedman added, “that they exist as passive victims” of Israel, the only party that matters.

This failure of media outlets such as the Guardian to recognize that Palestinians are more than just victims, and have the capacity to resist such destructive behavior, continues to deny news consumers an accurate understanding of the factors driving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

(full article online)

Guardian quotes Gaza ‘protester’ claiming new night time riots are meant to save lives


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Sue them?  Arrest them?  What?  ]




Be'eri nature preserve turtles victims of Gazan fire balloons 

(full article online)

Nature Preserve Turtles Victims of Gazan Fire Balloons


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF demolishes Gaza attack tunnel that penetrated 200 meters into Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

Thursday Fire Tally: Incendiary Balloons in Jerusalem, Bat Yam, Southern Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Thursday Fire Tally: Incendiary Balloons in Jerusalem, Bat Yam, Southern Israel


And Israel still hasn't figured out what to do?

What's all this bragging about being smart?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thursday Fire Tally: Incendiary Balloons in Jerusalem, Bat Yam, Southern Israel
> 
> 
> 
> And Israel still hasn't figured out what to do?
> 
> What's all this bragging about being smart?
Click to expand...

What would "smart" Tinmore do?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Netanyahu: Israel ‘systematically dismantling’ Hamas’s tunneling capability


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thursday Fire Tally: Incendiary Balloons in Jerusalem, Bat Yam, Southern Israel
> 
> 
> 
> And Israel still hasn't figured out what to do?
> 
> What's all this bragging about being smart?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What would "smart" Tinmore do?
Click to expand...

Has Israel gone to Gaza to discuss issues?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thursday Fire Tally: Incendiary Balloons in Jerusalem, Bat Yam, Southern Israel
> 
> 
> 
> And Israel still hasn't figured out what to do?
> 
> What's all this bragging about being smart?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What would "smart" Tinmore do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has Israel gone to Gaza to discuss issues?
Click to expand...

What are the issues you do think that Israel needs to go and discuss with Hamas?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thursday Fire Tally: Incendiary Balloons in Jerusalem, Bat Yam, Southern Israel
> 
> 
> 
> And Israel still hasn't figured out what to do?
> 
> What's all this bragging about being smart?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What would "smart" Tinmore do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has Israel gone to Gaza to discuss issues?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are the issues you do think that Israel needs to go and discuss with Hamas?
Click to expand...

So be that way and accept the status quo.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thursday Fire Tally: Incendiary Balloons in Jerusalem, Bat Yam, Southern Israel
> 
> 
> 
> And Israel still hasn't figured out what to do?
> 
> What's all this bragging about being smart?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What would "smart" Tinmore do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has Israel gone to Gaza to discuss issues?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are the issues you do think that Israel needs to go and discuss with Hamas?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So be that way and accept the status quo.
Click to expand...

And the coward, named Tinmore, who calls Israel "not smart", cannot come up with ONE smart thing to say about "figuring out what to do" with the fire/bomb balloons .


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Israel still hasn't figured out what to do?
> 
> What's all this bragging about being smart?
> 
> 
> 
> What would "smart" Tinmore do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has Israel gone to Gaza to discuss issues?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are the issues you do think that Israel needs to go and discuss with Hamas?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So be that way and accept the status quo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the coward, named Tinmore, who calls Israel "not smart", cannot come up with ONE smart thing to say about "figuring out what to do" with the fire/bomb balloons .
Click to expand...

Israel is the one who is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What would "smart" Tinmore do?
> 
> 
> 
> Has Israel gone to Gaza to discuss issues?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are the issues you do think that Israel needs to go and discuss with Hamas?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So be that way and accept the status quo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the coward, named Tinmore, who calls Israel "not smart", cannot come up with ONE smart thing to say about "figuring out what to do" with the fire/bomb balloons .
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is the one who is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
Click to expand...

Good one, cowardly Tinmore.  That is really a good one.
Cowardly Tinmore and cowardly Hamas and all the other terrorist groups in Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has Israel gone to Gaza to discuss issues?
> 
> 
> 
> What are the issues you do think that Israel needs to go and discuss with Hamas?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So be that way and accept the status quo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the coward, named Tinmore, who calls Israel "not smart", cannot come up with ONE smart thing to say about "figuring out what to do" with the fire/bomb balloons .
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is the one who is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good one, cowardly Tinmore.  That is really a good one.
> Cowardly Tinmore and cowardly Hamas and all the other terrorist groups in Gaza.
Click to expand...

Oh my, so much name calling.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What are the issues you do think that Israel needs to go and discuss with Hamas?
> 
> 
> 
> So be that way and accept the status quo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the coward, named Tinmore, who calls Israel "not smart", cannot come up with ONE smart thing to say about "figuring out what to do" with the fire/bomb balloons .
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is the one who is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good one, cowardly Tinmore.  That is really a good one.
> Cowardly Tinmore and cowardly Hamas and all the other terrorist groups in Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh my, so much name calling.
Click to expand...

"What would "smart" Tinmore do?"

No Answer

"What are the issues you do think that Israel needs to go and discuss with Hamas?"

No Answer

In other words, we are not calling you anything you have not truly shown yourself to be, for apparently 9 years so far.

All hot air, and nothing else.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What would "smart" Tinmore do?
> 
> 
> 
> Has Israel gone to Gaza to discuss issues?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are the issues you do think that Israel needs to go and discuss with Hamas?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So be that way and accept the status quo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the coward, named Tinmore, who calls Israel "not smart", cannot come up with ONE smart thing to say about "figuring out what to do" with the fire/bomb balloons .
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is the one who is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
Click to expand...


Would Israel talk to Hamas about their lovely charter? 

An islamic terrorist franchise with an agenda that calls for your killing predefines the conversation. 

Maybe you and Yahya Sinwar want to go out and yuk-it-up over a couple of beers.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  Hollie, "P F Tinmore, Sixties Fan, et al,

A nation, any nation, can overplay the peace card and humanitarianism only so far.  THEN: it becomes a trap.  A never-ending cycle of war.  Peace, Humanitarianism and the Rules of Law only work is "ALL" the parties agree to the same contents. →  *IF* they do not agree, or IF one or more parties believe that they are above the agreed upon rules and laws, *THEN* the opposition that adheres to the Rules and the Law is at a disadvantage.



Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has Israel gone to Gaza to discuss issues?
> 
> 
> 
> What are the issues you do think that Israel needs to go and discuss with Hamas?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So be that way and accept the status quo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the coward, named Tinmore, who calls Israel "not smart", cannot come up with ONE smart thing to say about "figuring out what to do" with the fire/bomb balloons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is the one who is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Would Israel talk to Hamas about their lovely charter?
> An Islamic terrorist franchise with an agenda that calls for your killing predefines the conversation.
> Maybe you and Yahya Sinwar want to go out and yuk-it-up over a couple of beers.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

When we (the outside observer) who sees Border Police being harsh, incompassionate, and unfriendly towards the Arab Palestinian, it may be because any one of the of the Arab Palestinians may attack them with a blade, a gun, or a suicide vest.  At any moment, while in the vicinity of the Arab Palestinian anyone may be subject to the chaos and pandemonium of an attack.   If anyone that experiences and survives suicide bombing, a wild car attack, or a near miss by an IED; will always look at the Arab Palestinian a bit differently.
Every Arab Palestinian knows that they are forbidden by Law to commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power.  Yet, not only do they do it on a near daily basis, the government rewards them for it.  Everyone in the world knows that arson is a high felony, yet the Palestinians do it near daily.

When the international community condones this type of action and condemns the victim for fighting back, they open themselves up to criticism.   

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  Hollie, "P F Tinmore, Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> A nation, any nation, can overplay the peace card and humanitarianism only so far.  THEN: it becomes a trap.  A never-ending cycle of war.  Peace, Humanitarianism and the Rules of Law only work is "ALL" the parties agree to the same contents. →  *IF* they do not agree, or IF one or more parties believe that they are above the agreed upon rules and laws, *THEN* the opposition that adheres to the Rules and the Law is at a disadvantage.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What are the issues you do think that Israel needs to go and discuss with Hamas?
> 
> 
> 
> So be that way and accept the status quo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the coward, named Tinmore, who calls Israel "not smart", cannot come up with ONE smart thing to say about "figuring out what to do" with the fire/bomb balloons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is the one who is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Would Israel talk to Hamas about their lovely charter?
> An Islamic terrorist franchise with an agenda that calls for your killing predefines the conversation.
> Maybe you and Yahya Sinwar want to go out and yuk-it-up over a couple of beers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> When we (the outside observer) who sees Border Police being harsh, incompassionate, and unfriendly towards the Arab Palestinian, it may be because any one of the of the Arab Palestinians may attack them with a blade, a gun, or a suicide vest.  At any moment, while in the vicinity of the Arab Palestinian anyone may be subject to the chaos and pandemonium of an attack.   If anyone that experiences and survives suicide bombing, a wild car attack, or a near miss by an IED; will always look at the Arab Palestinian a bit differently.
> Every Arab Palestinian knows that they are forbidden by Law to commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power.  Yet, not only do they do it on a near daily basis, the government rewards them for it.  Everyone in the world knows that arson is a high felony, yet the Palestinians do it near daily.
> 
> When the international community condones this type of action and condemns the victim for fighting back, they open themselves up to criticism.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The Palestinians are always condemned for fighting back.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  Hollie, "P F Tinmore, Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> A nation, any nation, can overplay the peace card and humanitarianism only so far.  THEN: it becomes a trap.  A never-ending cycle of war.  Peace, Humanitarianism and the Rules of Law only work is "ALL" the parties agree to the same contents. →  *IF* they do not agree, or IF one or more parties believe that they are above the agreed upon rules and laws, *THEN* the opposition that adheres to the Rules and the Law is at a disadvantage.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So be that way and accept the status quo.
> 
> 
> 
> And the coward, named Tinmore, who calls Israel "not smart", cannot come up with ONE smart thing to say about "figuring out what to do" with the fire/bomb balloons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is the one who is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Would Israel talk to Hamas about their lovely charter?
> An Islamic terrorist franchise with an agenda that calls for your killing predefines the conversation.
> Maybe you and Yahya Sinwar want to go out and yuk-it-up over a couple of beers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> When we (the outside observer) who sees Border Police being harsh, incompassionate, and unfriendly towards the Arab Palestinian, it may be because any one of the of the Arab Palestinians may attack them with a blade, a gun, or a suicide vest.  At any moment, while in the vicinity of the Arab Palestinian anyone may be subject to the chaos and pandemonium of an attack.   If anyone that experiences and survives suicide bombing, a wild car attack, or a near miss by an IED; will always look at the Arab Palestinian a bit differently.
> Every Arab Palestinian knows that they are forbidden by Law to commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power.  Yet, not only do they do it on a near daily basis, the government rewards them for it.  Everyone in the world knows that arson is a high felony, yet the Palestinians do it near daily.
> 
> When the international community condones this type of action and condemns the victim for fighting back, they open themselves up to criticism.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are always condemned for fighting back.
Click to expand...

The Palestinian Arabs are not the ones fighting back.
They are the ones who attacked first from 1920 until today because their "religion", Islam - demands that they do so.

The Palestinian Jews are the ones fighting back against the Muslim desire to continue to have the Jews as second class citizens or DEAD.

You are not fooling anyone !!


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

OH*!*  For heaven's sake, give me a break.

The UN General Assembly, the Security Council and all the various associate humanitarian organizations
have condemned Israel in Reports and Legal Opinions used the media to further Hostile Arab Palestinian causes and voted in favor of Resolutions the Hostile Arab Palestinian Factions _(most of which are designated terrorist organizations)_ and against Israel so many times that critics have lost count.



P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians are always condemned for fighting back.


*(COMMENT)*

The UN support of the Arab Palestinians has:

Endorsed criminal activity by the Arab Palestinians that influences target populations beyond the Israeli victims.

•  The Arab Palestinians use the calculated application of unlawful violence or highly creditable threats of unlawful violence in the furtherance of their demands.
•  The Arab Palestinians actually use coercion and intimidation in the region → in the pursuit of goals that are _(just a word in thumbnail view)_:

■  *Political*:  The Negotiation Affairs Department (NAD), Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) Wants to define the 1949 Armistice Line along as it was on 4 June  '67,  as the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine.  _(There was no State of Palestine in 1967)_.  And there is no question that they want to overrun Israel, elimination the Jewish National Home.
■  *Religious*:  It is the responsibility and national of the Palestinian people and the Arab and Islamic nation, to Liberation of Palestine.  Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine.  Resistance is a means of ending the occupation and the restoration of rights. They want Sharia Law.
■  *Ideological*:  It is the unity of the Arab Palestinian, with combined the strength of all factions, militant and political to make Palestine - all of Palestine _(the River to the Sea)_ - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim.  They see the entirety of the former territory under the Mandate, as an Arab Muslim state.​
And no one, not a single state _(other than a few allies of the United States)_ has jumped to the forefront and challenged these criminal organization and openly defended the Israeli right to self-determination and territorial integrity.  And, they talk condemn Israel and conveniently forget that the international law says:

"Protected persons who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offense committed."​
Yet they reward and praise that teenage juvenile delinquent for assaulting a police officer.  They glorify her in the news.

Don't talk to me about how badly the Arab Palestinian is criticized.  The Arab Palestinian is the most celebrated culture in history for high jacking planes, bombing bus and restaurants, and missile and rocket launches, against non-combatants. Yet rarely is a positive word in favor of the Israeli heard.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  Hollie, "P F Tinmore, Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> A nation, any nation, can overplay the peace card and humanitarianism only so far.  THEN: it becomes a trap.  A never-ending cycle of war.  Peace, Humanitarianism and the Rules of Law only work is "ALL" the parties agree to the same contents. →  *IF* they do not agree, or IF one or more parties believe that they are above the agreed upon rules and laws, *THEN* the opposition that adheres to the Rules and the Law is at a disadvantage.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So be that way and accept the status quo.
> 
> 
> 
> And the coward, named Tinmore, who calls Israel "not smart", cannot come up with ONE smart thing to say about "figuring out what to do" with the fire/bomb balloons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is the one who is too candy ass to talk to Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Would Israel talk to Hamas about their lovely charter?
> An Islamic terrorist franchise with an agenda that calls for your killing predefines the conversation.
> Maybe you and Yahya Sinwar want to go out and yuk-it-up over a couple of beers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> When we (the outside observer) who sees Border Police being harsh, incompassionate, and unfriendly towards the Arab Palestinian, it may be because any one of the of the Arab Palestinians may attack them with a blade, a gun, or a suicide vest.  At any moment, while in the vicinity of the Arab Palestinian anyone may be subject to the chaos and pandemonium of an attack.   If anyone that experiences and survives suicide bombing, a wild car attack, or a near miss by an IED; will always look at the Arab Palestinian a bit differently.
> Every Arab Palestinian knows that they are forbidden by Law to commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power.  Yet, not only do they do it on a near daily basis, the government rewards them for it.  Everyone in the world knows that arson is a high felony, yet the Palestinians do it near daily.
> 
> When the international community condones this type of action and condemns the victim for fighting back, they open themselves up to criticism.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are always condemned for fighting back.
Click to expand...


I would not define designated islamic terrorist organizations which are financed, maintained and supported by Islamic terrorist quasi-governments and which operate outside of international law with regard to gee-had attacks as "fighting back".

I suppose islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers / rabid Jew haters have a unique set of definitions.


----------



## Sixties Fan

With its decades-old track record of murder and mayhem, Hamas has already secured itself a place in the annals of infamy. From bus bombings to underground terror tunnels to the indiscriminate firing of thousands of rockets and projectiles at Israeli towns and cities, the Islamic extremist group has repeatedly found new ways to sow widespread death and destruction. But just when it seems that their injurious impulses cannot possibly sink any lower, the organization's terrorist masterminds somehow manage to come up with novel methods that would make even the devil blush.

Such has been the case in recent days when, as Yediot Aharonot reported, Hamas has launched the "terror of the toys," deliberately targeting young Jewish children by attaching explosive devices concealed as playthings to balloons and sending them airborne from Gaza towards neighboring Jewish communities in the Negev.

In one instance, a bomb disguised as a toy tied to a batch of balloons was discovered in the Eshkol region. It was glittering with colorful lights, clearly intended to entice a curious Israeli child to pick it up. Fortunately, the bomb was discovered and diffused before it caused any damage.

But this incident, along with others, prompted security officials to issue an unusual warning to local residents last week: "Please instruct your children not to touch objects attached to balloons which appear to be toys." The circular further noted, "Sometimes there are drawings on the balloons, with hearts and smiles, funny faces and the like. All of these are intended to create an innocent cover for the explosive devices."

So there you have it for all the world to see. Israel's enemies are not targeting "the occupation" or "illegal settlements." They are consciously and with premeditation seeking to blow the limbs off of Jewish children and kill them.

(full article online)

Start-Up Nation vs Blow-Up Nation


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gaza border incident:  Terrorists detonated explosive along border fence


----------



## Sixties Fan

Defense Minister Liberman says Israel won't provide fuel, gas, to Gaza until violence - including incendiary balloons - ends.

(full article online)

DM: No fuel for Gaza until violence ends


----------



## Sixties Fan

Now Hamas has done something new. The media would have you believe that Gazans in general, and Hamas in particular, are experimenting for the first time with peaceful protests, reminiscent of Martin Luther King and Selma. In reality, what is new is that Hamas has been using tens of thousands of Gazans — including children — as cover while trying to infiltrate Israel, both on land by breaching border fences and by air using kites carrying Molotov cocktails.

(full article online)

International Law Is Not Keeping Up With The New Ways Hamas Exploits Human Shields


----------



## Sixties Fan

Yes, Israeli forces killed seven Palestinian Arabs, but if you call bombing the border-fence and crossing into Israel a “protest” then you must have a different dictionary than the one I am using. In fact, three paragraphs down, Reuters does report on the nature of this protest:

The Israeli military said that the demonstrators, numbering around 15,000, had been “hurling rocks, explosive devices, firebombs and grenades” at Israeli troops and at the fence.

Israeli military spokesman Lt. Col Jonathan Conricus tweeted that one group had “detonated a bomb on the Israel-Gaza border fence”, allowing around 20 people to climb through the hole.

Some might say that hurling rocks, explosive devices, firebombs and grenades, and climbing through a breech in the border fence constitutes a declaration of war. That is, if the soldiers are not Israeli and the border is not one with Israel.

(full article online)

Damn Israeli Bastards! If You Believe Reuters, That Is! | Israel Diaries


----------



## Sixties Fan

Fatah, the political party headed by "peacemaker" Mahmoud Abbas, has mostly been on the sidelines in the Hamas-organized weekly Gaza riots,.

On Friday, finally a Fatah terrorist was "martyred" - and the Fatah gangs couldn't be happier!

Mohammed Issam Mohammed Abbas, known as Abu Al-Omrain, was killed on Friday. He may have been one of those who poured through the hole in the border fence created by a bomb who then attacked an IDF post.

Fatah organized a huge funeral for him in Gaza and has been busy making posters for the "martyr," to show that they are sending people to their deaths just like Hamas is.





(full article online)

Finally, Fatah has a "martyr" in the Gaza riots, complete with massive funeral ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> Fatah, the political party headed by "peacemaker" Mahmoud Abbas, has mostly been on the sidelines in the Hamas-organized weekly Gaza riots,.
> 
> On Friday, finally a Fatah terrorist was "martyred" - and the Fatah gangs couldn't be happier!
> 
> Mohammed Issam Mohammed Abbas, known as Abu Al-Omrain, was killed on Friday. He may have been one of those who poured through the hole in the border fence created by a bomb who then attacked an IDF post.
> 
> Fatah organized a huge funeral for him in Gaza and has been busy making posters for the "martyr," to show that they are sending people to their deaths just like Hamas is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Finally, Fatah has a "martyr" in the Gaza riots, complete with massive funeral ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



It’s nice that the angry, disposable islamo-yutes representing the Fatah franchise of Islamic Terrorism Intl. inc., are meeting their quota for the border gee-had.


----------



## Sixties Fan

“Hamas hasn’t understood the message,” Netanyahu told ministers and reporters at the beginning of the weekly cabinet meeting in Jerusalem on Sunday morning.

“If they don’t stop the attacks they will be stopped in another way, which will be painful. Very painful,” he added, suggesting that Israel was on the brink of a full-blown military operation against Gaza’s rulers.

“We are very close to a different kind of activity that will include very powerful blows,” the prime minister threatened. “If Hamas has any brains, it will stop.”

(full article online)


IDF strikes Gaza balloon launchers amid uptick in border violence


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas has turned the violent demonstrations at the Gaza border into 24/7 events to get the IDF soldiers accustomed to the ongoing presence of Palestinian activists at the fence, including at night.

These nightly activities are carried out by a special unit called the “night confusion units,” which burn tires, sound sirens, blind IDF soldiers with lasers, and more.

Hamas’ overall objective is to take the IDF by surprise by blowing up the fence at several points and infiltrating into Israeli territory to harm IDF soldiers or abduct them and take them into the Gaza Strip.

Hamas is making significant efforts to take the IDF by surprise. The precedent of the Shalit Deal in 2011 in which one Israeli soldier was traded for 1,027 Palestinian prisoners, has strengthened the feeling among Hamas that Israel is prepared to pay a heavy price for bringing back captured soldiers alive.

Therefore, the objective of Hamas is to cut through the fence under a heavy smokescreen, creating a diversion so that it can get into Israeli territory and kidnap soldiers from their outposts along the border fence.

At the same time, under the ground, Hamas continues its tunnel digging. On October 11, 2018, Israel uncovered and destroyed another Gaza tunnel (the 15th in the last year) that penetrated 100 meters into Israeli territory. Using such a tunnel in 2006, Hamas abducted IDF soldier Gilad Shalit.

(full article online)


Hamas Probes Israel’s Defenses


----------



## Sixties Fan

Terror group says Abbas will be responsible for mass casualties if protests grow in face of new sanctions; rejects two-week border calm, according to Arabic daily

(full article online)

Hamas warns thousands of Gazans will rush fences if PA squeezes Strip — report


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Hamas has turned the violent demonstrations at the Gaza border into 24/7 events to get the IDF soldiers accustomed to the ongoing presence of Palestinian activists at the fence, including at night.
> 
> These nightly activities are carried out by a special unit called the “night confusion units,” which burn tires, sound sirens, blind IDF soldiers with lasers, and more.
> 
> Hamas’ overall objective is to take the IDF by surprise by blowing up the fence at several points and infiltrating into Israeli territory to harm IDF soldiers or abduct them and take them into the Gaza Strip.
> 
> Hamas is making significant efforts to take the IDF by surprise. The precedent of the Shalit Deal in 2011 in which one Israeli soldier was traded for 1,027 Palestinian prisoners, has strengthened the feeling among Hamas that Israel is prepared to pay a heavy price for bringing back captured soldiers alive.
> 
> Therefore, the objective of Hamas is to cut through the fence under a heavy smokescreen, creating a diversion so that it can get into Israeli territory and kidnap soldiers from their outposts along the border fence.
> 
> At the same time, under the ground, Hamas continues its tunnel digging. On October 11, 2018, Israel uncovered and destroyed another Gaza tunnel (the 15th in the last year) that penetrated 100 meters into Israeli territory. Using such a tunnel in 2006, Hamas abducted IDF soldier Gilad Shalit.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> Hamas Probes Israel’s Defenses




Terrifying.


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Terror group says Abbas will be responsible for mass casualties if protests grow in face of new sanctions; rejects two-week border calm, according to Arabic daily
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas warns thousands of Gazans will rush fences if PA squeezes Strip — report



This article actually opens up a fascinating array of possible scenarios between Israel, Egypt, the PA and Gaza and the wide possibilities of various alliances and enmities and how they are going to play out.  Especially when you include the sidekicks:  UN, Qatar, EU, Iran, Jordan.


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> Terror group says Abbas will be responsible for mass casualties if protests grow in face of new sanctions; rejects two-week border calm, according to Arabic daily
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas warns thousands of Gazans will rush fences if PA squeezes Strip — report




Definitely another episode of _*Pal’istanian Mentality™️
*_
“The Hamas terror group warned that Gazans could step up violent protests against Israel and Egypt should the Palestinian Authority impose fresh sanctions on the beleaguered enclave.”


----------



## Sixties Fan

EU admits violent riots in Gaza, but remains clueless still ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Is the Israeli-Egyptian “siege” on the Gaza Strip the main reason for the serious humanitarian crisis there? The answer is an unequivocal “no,” despite the repeated declarations by the Palestinians and their supporters that Israel and Egypt are choking the population.

(full article online)

What Israeli ‘Siege’ on Gaza?


----------



## Sixties Fan

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/eye...-land-in-beer-sheva-jordan-valley/2018/10/15/


----------



## Sixties Fan

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/eye...ume-daily-violence-at-gaza-border/2018/10/15/


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ It has been WAR.....since 1920......pay attention !!!!  ]

Hamas's chief priority: The kidnap of Israeli soldiers so that they can be used as pawns in the terror group's campaign against Israel.

"Hamas' overall objective is to take the IDF by surprise by blowing up the fence at several points and infiltrating into Israeli territory to harm IDF soldiers or abduct them and take them into the Gaza Strip," according to the JCPA.

To this end, "Hamas has turned the violent demonstrations at the Gaza border into 24/7 events to get the IDF soldiers accustomed to the ongoing presence of Palestinian activists at the fence, including at night," the JCPA found.

"These nightly activities are carried out by a special unit called the ‘night confusion units,' which burn tires, sound sirens, blind IDF soldiers with lasers, and more," according to the report.

(full article online)

Hamas Turns Israeli Border into '24/7' Warzone In New Bid to Kidnap Israeli Soldiers


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas: Israel’s ‘empty threats’ don’t scare Palestinians


----------



## Sixties Fan

“When I started,” said Truzman, who has collected more than 4,200 followers over the last eight months, “I was surprised at the lack of information going into some of these stories. As far as the journalists covering it, they’re not doing their jobs—I almost feel like they don’t really care. A lot of times, I’ve found that they’re just flat-out wrong.”

Where journalists failed, Truzman has succeeded in providing objective, well-researched coverage of the ongoing border riots. For example, on Sept. 29, an article from the Guardian reported that the increasing number of gatherings being held at night are “to save lives as people can move under the cover of darkness,” omitting, as Truzman had reported nearly a week prior to the article’s publication, that the purpose of these “night-time confusion” units is to regularly launch incendiary balloons and explosives towards Israel.

“Staying objective is a learning process,” he said. “I always think about my posts; I think about how it will be received by everyone out there. You can remain as neutral as possible, you’re still going to get people who don’t like [your content].”

(full article online)

Meet ‘Joe,’ bringing objectivity to Mideast reporting in 280 characters or less


----------



## Sixties Fan

Half of the forested land near the Gaza Strip has been burned in the last six months as a result of incendiary kites and balloons sent from the Palestinian coastal enclave, new data released Tuesday showed, even as multiple fires were burning in the region.

The information, from Keren Kayemeth LeIsrael-Jewish National Fund (KKL-JNF), showed that more than 1,100 fires that have been set ablaze since April 10, the day KKL-JNF workers first reported fires from incendiary devices. The fires have burned nearly 12,000 dunams (120 hectares) of land near the Gaza Strip, more than half of the 21,000 dunams (2,100 hectares) of forested land in the region.

(full article online)

Incendiary devices burned half of forests near Gaza, data shows


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Half of the forested land near the Gaza Strip has been burned in the last six months as a result of incendiary kites and balloons sent from the Palestinian coastal enclave, new data released Tuesday showed, even as multiple fires were burning in the region.
> 
> The information, from Keren Kayemeth LeIsrael-Jewish National Fund (KKL-JNF), showed that more than 1,100 fires that have been set ablaze since April 10, the day KKL-JNF workers first reported fires from incendiary devices. The fires have burned nearly 12,000 dunams (120 hectares) of land near the Gaza Strip, more than half of the 21,000 dunams (2,100 hectares) of forested land in the region.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Incendiary devices burned half of forests near Gaza, data shows


And Israel is still clueless.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Half of the forested land near the Gaza Strip has been burned in the last six months as a result of incendiary kites and balloons sent from the Palestinian coastal enclave, new data released Tuesday showed, even as multiple fires were burning in the region.
> 
> The information, from Keren Kayemeth LeIsrael-Jewish National Fund (KKL-JNF), showed that more than 1,100 fires that have been set ablaze since April 10, the day KKL-JNF workers first reported fires from incendiary devices. The fires have burned nearly 12,000 dunams (120 hectares) of land near the Gaza Strip, more than half of the 21,000 dunams (2,100 hectares) of forested land in the region.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Incendiary devices burned half of forests near Gaza, data shows
> 
> 
> 
> And Israel is still clueless.
Click to expand...

And so are you.

But.....keep an eye on the border.  Something will be happening soon


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Half of the forested land near the Gaza Strip has been burned in the last six months as a result of incendiary kites and balloons sent from the Palestinian coastal enclave, new data released Tuesday showed, even as multiple fires were burning in the region.
> 
> The information, from Keren Kayemeth LeIsrael-Jewish National Fund (KKL-JNF), showed that more than 1,100 fires that have been set ablaze since April 10, the day KKL-JNF workers first reported fires from incendiary devices. The fires have burned nearly 12,000 dunams (120 hectares) of land near the Gaza Strip, more than half of the 21,000 dunams (2,100 hectares) of forested land in the region.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Incendiary devices burned half of forests near Gaza, data shows
> 
> 
> 
> And Israel is still clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And so are you.
> 
> But.....keep an eye on the border.  Something will be happening soon
Click to expand...

Why Hamas-Israel truce agreement threatens Palestinian unity


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Half of the forested land near the Gaza Strip has been burned in the last six months as a result of incendiary kites and balloons sent from the Palestinian coastal enclave, new data released Tuesday showed, even as multiple fires were burning in the region.
> 
> The information, from Keren Kayemeth LeIsrael-Jewish National Fund (KKL-JNF), showed that more than 1,100 fires that have been set ablaze since April 10, the day KKL-JNF workers first reported fires from incendiary devices. The fires have burned nearly 12,000 dunams (120 hectares) of land near the Gaza Strip, more than half of the 21,000 dunams (2,100 hectares) of forested land in the region.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Incendiary devices burned half of forests near Gaza, data shows
> 
> 
> 
> And Israel is still clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And so are you.
> 
> But.....keep an eye on the border.  Something will be happening soon
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why Hamas-Israel truce agreement threatens Palestinian unity
Click to expand...



There is no Palestinian unity.  Hasn't been for a long time.  Best to get on with it.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Actions have consequences ]

Erez and Kerem Shalom crossings to be closed following rocket attack on Be'er Sheva.

(full article online)

Liberman orders closing of Gaza crossings


----------



## Sixties Fan

All the major terror groups in Gaza issued a joint statement that not only denied any of them shot the rockets this morning at Beersheva and off the coast near Bat Yam, but that denounced whoever shot them.

Even the Hamas Al Qassam Brigades published the statement.

The "Joint Operations Room" that represents all major Gaza terror organizations issued what appears to be an unprecedented statement that says they "reject all irresponsible attempts that try to sabotage the Egyptian (reconciliation) effort, including the rocket fire last night."

I have never seen any terror groups condemn any rocket fire from Gaza, or any terror operation.

The factions said that when they fight Israel, they do it openly and proudly and not "hiding behind any curtain" as the unknown group that shot the rocket has been doing.

This remarkable statement seems to be an attempt to avoid an escalation from Israel.

(full article online)

Who shot the rockets to Israel? Major terror groups not only deny but denounce the shooters! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Watch: Terror tunnel destroyed in Gaza Strip


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Some ignorant people simply cannot help themselves from thinking and saying the wrong things.......about Israel ]

The chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court at The Hague, Fatou Bensouda, on Wednesday issued a warning to Israel almost immediately after IAF fighter pilots began retaliatory air strikes in Gaza in response to three rocket attacks fired at Israel earlier in the day. 

She began with an open threat to Israel over the imminent evacuation of the illegally-built Bedouin village Khan al-Ahmar, whose residents have been offered a properly-prepared site with full infrastructure a short distance away.

(full article online)

ICC Protects Gaza, Threatens Israel After Missile Attack on Be’er Sheva Destroys Israeli Home


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> All the major terror groups in Gaza issued a joint statement that not only denied any of them shot the rockets this morning at Beersheva and off the coast near Bat Yam, but that denounced whoever shot them.
> 
> Even the Hamas Al Qassam Brigades published the statement.
> 
> The "Joint Operations Room" that represents all major Gaza terror organizations issued what appears to be an unprecedented statement that says they "reject all irresponsible attempts that try to sabotage the Egyptian (reconciliation) effort, including the rocket fire last night."
> 
> I have never seen any terror groups condemn any rocket fire from Gaza, or any terror operation.
> 
> The factions said that when they fight Israel, they do it openly and proudly and not "hiding behind any curtain" as the unknown group that shot the rocket has been doing.
> 
> This remarkable statement seems to be an attempt to avoid an escalation from Israel.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Who shot the rockets to Israel? Major terror groups not only deny but denounce the shooters! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News




Oooooh.  Lookie.  They have found another way to have their cake and eat it too.


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Some ignorant people simply cannot help themselves from thinking and saying the wrong things.......about Israel ]
> 
> The chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court at The Hague, Fatou Bensouda, on Wednesday issued a warning to Israel almost immediately after IAF fighter pilots began retaliatory air strikes in Gaza in response to three rocket attacks fired at Israel earlier in the day.
> 
> She began with an open threat to Israel over the imminent evacuation of the illegally-built Bedouin village Khan al-Ahmar, whose residents have been offered a properly-prepared site with full infrastructure a short distance away.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> ICC Protects Gaza, Threatens Israel After Missile Attack on Be’er Sheva Destroys Israeli Home




Unbelievable.  

Maybe if we started complaining to the ICC that Gaza is unfairly demolishing Jewish homes in Be'er Sheva ..?.


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Update: AFP Corrects*

Following CAMERA communication from CAMERA's Israel office, AFP editors commendably amended the article, which now accurately reports on the damage to the home and includes details about the family's flight to safety. The amended text states:

Gaza militants fired two rockets before dawn, one of which caused major damage to a family home in the southern city of Beersheba, 40 kilometers (25 miles) away, the Israeli army said.

The family of three narrowly escaped injury after their mother moved them into the safe room, with much of the rest of the house destroyed, the army said.

We commend AFP for correcting the misinformation that the damage was limited to the garden, but we question the editorial decision to continue to bury in the fifth paragraph the fact that a house was directly hit, despite the fact that the event was a major escalation of hostilities.

(full article online)

Palestinian Rocket Destroys Beersheba Home. AFP: Rocket Caused ‘Damage to Garden’ | CAMERA


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas and Islamic Jihad had earlier denied responsibility for the rocket fire. "We reject any irresponsible attempt to destroy the Egyptian efforts," to reach a ceasefire agreement with Israel, the joint statement said, "including the rocket fire last night."

However, Manelis dismissed the groups' claim. "Only Hamas and Islamic Jihad have these type of rockets," he said.

(full article online)

Hamas denies responsibility for attack; IDF: Only Hamas has these rockets


----------



## Sixties Fan

In the survey, the coordinator asked the residents what they would prefer to do with $3 million: "Would you prefer to invest in a terror tunnel or an oncology ward for sick children in Gaza?

"You chose - a pediatric oncology department. So why does Hamas not ask you why it chooses to invest in the death tunnels?" he wrote.

He added a video showing the air force bombing a terror tunnel today in Khan Yunis. "This is further evidence that the Hamas terrorist organization is burning your money," Abu Rukun wrote.

(full article online)

'Residents of Gaza, why doesn't Hamas ask you?'


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> In the survey, the coordinator asked the residents what they would prefer to do with $3 million: "Would you prefer to invest in a terror tunnel or an oncology ward for sick children in Gaza?
> 
> "You chose - a pediatric oncology department. So why does Hamas not ask you why it chooses to invest in the death tunnels?" he wrote.
> 
> He added a video showing the air force bombing a terror tunnel today in Khan Yunis. "This is further evidence that the Hamas terrorist organization is burning your money," Abu Rukun wrote.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 'Residents of Gaza, why doesn't Hamas ask you?'


Those tunnels were a good defense in the last war.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the survey, the coordinator asked the residents what they would prefer to do with $3 million: "Would you prefer to invest in a terror tunnel or an oncology ward for sick children in Gaza?
> 
> "You chose - a pediatric oncology department. So why does Hamas not ask you why it chooses to invest in the death tunnels?" he wrote.
> 
> He added a video showing the air force bombing a terror tunnel today in Khan Yunis. "This is further evidence that the Hamas terrorist organization is burning your money," Abu Rukun wrote.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 'Residents of Gaza, why doesn't Hamas ask you?'
> 
> 
> 
> Those tunnels were a good defense in the last war.
Click to expand...

That's a good one !!!!


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the survey, the coordinator asked the residents what they would prefer to do with $3 million: "Would you prefer to invest in a terror tunnel or an oncology ward for sick children in Gaza?
> 
> "You chose - a pediatric oncology department. So why does Hamas not ask you why it chooses to invest in the death tunnels?" he wrote.
> 
> He added a video showing the air force bombing a terror tunnel today in Khan Yunis. "This is further evidence that the Hamas terrorist organization is burning your money," Abu Rukun wrote.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 'Residents of Gaza, why doesn't Hamas ask you?'
> 
> 
> 
> Those tunnels were a good defense in the last war.
Click to expand...



Wait, what?!  So you are telling the people of Gaza that their wish for a pediatric oncology department is the WRONG choice?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the survey, the coordinator asked the residents what they would prefer to do with $3 million: "Would you prefer to invest in a terror tunnel or an oncology ward for sick children in Gaza?
> 
> "You chose - a pediatric oncology department. So why does Hamas not ask you why it chooses to invest in the death tunnels?" he wrote.
> 
> He added a video showing the air force bombing a terror tunnel today in Khan Yunis. "This is further evidence that the Hamas terrorist organization is burning your money," Abu Rukun wrote.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 'Residents of Gaza, why doesn't Hamas ask you?'
> 
> 
> 
> Those tunnels were a good defense in the last war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, what?!  So you are telling the people of Gaza that their wish for a pediatric oncology department is the WRONG choice?
Click to expand...

Those tunnels changed the course of the war. Israel got its ass kicked.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the survey, the coordinator asked the residents what they would prefer to do with $3 million: "Would you prefer to invest in a terror tunnel or an oncology ward for sick children in Gaza?
> 
> "You chose - a pediatric oncology department. So why does Hamas not ask you why it chooses to invest in the death tunnels?" he wrote.
> 
> He added a video showing the air force bombing a terror tunnel today in Khan Yunis. "This is further evidence that the Hamas terrorist organization is burning your money," Abu Rukun wrote.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 'Residents of Gaza, why doesn't Hamas ask you?'
> 
> 
> 
> Those tunnels were a good defense in the last war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, what?!  So you are telling the people of Gaza that their wish for a pediatric oncology department is the WRONG choice?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those tunnels changed the course of the war. Israel got its ass kicked.
Click to expand...

What planet do you live on?????


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the survey, the coordinator asked the residents what they would prefer to do with $3 million: "Would you prefer to invest in a terror tunnel or an oncology ward for sick children in Gaza?
> 
> "You chose - a pediatric oncology department. So why does Hamas not ask you why it chooses to invest in the death tunnels?" he wrote.
> 
> He added a video showing the air force bombing a terror tunnel today in Khan Yunis. "This is further evidence that the Hamas terrorist organization is burning your money," Abu Rukun wrote.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 'Residents of Gaza, why doesn't Hamas ask you?'
> 
> 
> 
> Those tunnels were a good defense in the last war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, what?!  So you are telling the people of Gaza that their wish for a pediatric oncology department is the WRONG choice?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those tunnels changed the course of the war. Israel got its ass kicked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What planet do you live on?????
Click to expand...

The one with the facts.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the survey, the coordinator asked the residents what they would prefer to do with $3 million: "Would you prefer to invest in a terror tunnel or an oncology ward for sick children in Gaza?
> 
> "You chose - a pediatric oncology department. So why does Hamas not ask you why it chooses to invest in the death tunnels?" he wrote.
> 
> He added a video showing the air force bombing a terror tunnel today in Khan Yunis. "This is further evidence that the Hamas terrorist organization is burning your money," Abu Rukun wrote.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 'Residents of Gaza, why doesn't Hamas ask you?'
> 
> 
> 
> Those tunnels were a good defense in the last war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, what?!  So you are telling the people of Gaza that their wish for a pediatric oncology department is the WRONG choice?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those tunnels changed the course of the war. Israel got its ass kicked.
Click to expand...


Palestinian mentality is strong in this one.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→

While the "infiltration tunnels" might have been _(somewhat of)_ a surprise, I don't think it "changed the course of the war."



Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those tunnels changed the course of the war. Israel got its ass kicked.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian mentality is strong in this one.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinian "course of the war" is the same today as it was in the year 2000.

Oct 12 2000
*Ramallah lynching*
The 2000 Ramallah lynching was a violent incident in October 2000 of the
Second Intifada in which a Palestinian mob lynched two Israeli soldiers,...
Read more​Just how do you assess the Battle Damage and Casualties relative "infiltration tunnels?"  I do not recall any Israeli - Arab Palestinian engagement where the outcome was a win for the Arab Palestinian.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→
> 
> While the "infiltration tunnels" might have been _(somewhat of)_ a surprise, I don't think it "changed the course of the war."
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those tunnels changed the course of the war. Israel got its ass kicked.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian mentality is strong in this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinian "course of the war" is the same today as it was in the year 2000.
> 
> Oct 12 2000
> *Ramallah lynching*
> The 2000 Ramallah lynching was a violent incident in October 2000 of the
> Second Intifada in which a Palestinian mob lynched two Israeli soldiers,...
> Read more​Just how do you assess the Battle Damage and Casualties relative "infiltration tunnels?"  I do not recall any Israeli - Arab Palestinian engagement where the outcome was a win for the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Because if the tunnels, Israel lost 10 times the soldiers in Protective Edge that they did in the previous assault. Not only that but between 500 and 700 troops were wounded. Those tunnels were a very effective defense.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  "P F Tinmore,  et al,

This is a relatively unenlightened view of the cause of casualties.



P F Tinmore said:


> Because if the tunnels, Israel lost 10 times the soldiers in Protective Edge that they did in the previous assault. Not only that but between 500 and 700 troops were wounded. Those tunnels were a very effective defense.



•  Operation:  CAST LEAD 27 December 2008 -- 18 January 2009 (3 weeks)
Israel:
IDF  13 KIA (friendly fire: 4)
Civilians: 3 Killed
*Total wounded*: 518
Soldiers: 336
Civilians: 182https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War_(2008–09)#cite_note-ocha2009jan26-29​Arab Palestinians
2,310 killed,
5,303 wounded​•  Operation: PROTECTIVE EDGE 8 July – 26 August 2014 (7 weeks)
Israel
67 soldiers KIA
6 civilians killed, 
*Total wounded*: 
469 soldiers and 
87 civilians wounded​Arab Palestinians:
Total killed: 1,417 
Total wounded: 10,626 
​There is a drastic difference in the complexion between the two incursion.  You can make all kinds of retios and comparisons with these figures.  But the assessment of the incursion is something much different.  WHY?  Because the nature of the conflict is not measured in territory taken, but to cause a cessation of hostile fire _(incoming into Israel)_.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore measures "success" in war and "effective defense" by the number of Jews killed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  "P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> This is a relatively unenlightened view of the cause of casualties.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because if the tunnels, Israel lost 10 times the soldiers in Protective Edge that they did in the previous assault. Not only that but between 500 and 700 troops were wounded. Those tunnels were a very effective defense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> •  Operation:  CAST LEAD 27 December 2008 -- 18 January 2009 (3 weeks)
> Israel:
> IDF  13 KIA (friendly fire: 4)
> Civilians: 3 Killed
> *Total wounded*: 518
> Soldiers: 336
> Civilians: 182​Arab Palestinians
> 2,310 killed,
> 5,303 wounded​•  Operation: PROTECTIVE EDGE 8 July – 26 August 2014 (7 weeks)
> Israel
> 67 soldiers KIA
> 6 civilians killed,
> *Total wounded*:
> 469 soldiers and
> 87 civilians wounded​Arab Palestinians:
> Total killed: 1,417
> Total wounded: 10,626
> ​There is a drastic difference in the complexion between the two incursion.  You can make all kinds of retios and comparisons with these figures.  But the assessment of the incursion is something much different.  WHY?  Because the nature of the conflict is not measured in territory taken, but to cause a cessation of hostile fire _(incoming into Israel)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israel thinks that blowing up a lot of civilians and civilian infrastructure is winning.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  "P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> This is a relatively unenlightened view of the cause of casualties.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because if the tunnels, Israel lost 10 times the soldiers in Protective Edge that they did in the previous assault. Not only that but between 500 and 700 troops were wounded. Those tunnels were a very effective defense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> •  Operation:  CAST LEAD 27 December 2008 -- 18 January 2009 (3 weeks)
> Israel:
> IDF  13 KIA (friendly fire: 4)
> Civilians: 3 Killed
> *Total wounded*: 518
> Soldiers: 336
> Civilians: 182​Arab Palestinians
> 2,310 killed,
> 5,303 wounded​•  Operation: PROTECTIVE EDGE 8 July – 26 August 2014 (7 weeks)
> Israel
> 67 soldiers KIA
> 6 civilians killed,
> *Total wounded*:
> 469 soldiers and
> 87 civilians wounded​Arab Palestinians:
> Total killed: 1,417
> Total wounded: 10,626
> ​There is a drastic difference in the complexion between the two incursion.  You can make all kinds of retios and comparisons with these figures.  But the assessment of the incursion is something much different.  WHY?  Because the nature of the conflict is not measured in territory taken, but to cause a cessation of hostile fire _(incoming into Israel)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel thinks that blowing up a lot of civilians and civilian infrastructure is willing.
Click to expand...

Wow, what a very bad sentence.

Oh, you meant "winning"  ho, ho, ho.....I got it.

No, Tinman, that is not how Israel measures success.

But just wait and see if all the terrorist groups in Gaza continue their behavior, if they are going to be happy being blown up, and put an end to by Israel once and for all.

Hamas and others are really asking for it, and they will get it.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> \
> Israel thinks that blowing up a lot of civilians and civilian infrastructure is winning.



Israel thinks stopping the attacks on her citizens is winning.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> \
> Israel thinks that blowing up a lot of civilians and civilian infrastructure is winning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel thinks stopping the attacks on her citizens is winning.
Click to expand...

How does killing civilians help that?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> \
> Israel thinks that blowing up a lot of civilians and civilian infrastructure is winning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel thinks stopping the attacks on her citizens is winning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does killing civilians help that?
Click to expand...

Tinmore is BORED TO DEATH today and has nothing else to do.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

You're just twisting the events for propaganda purposes.



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel thinks that blowing up a lot of civilians and civilian infrastructure is winning.


*(COMMENT)
*
There would be no attacks if the population of Arab Palestinians complied with the common law and international humanitarian law.

There would be significantly fewer casualties if the Arab Palestinians complied with the Customary iHL:


#23  Location of Military Objectives outside Densely Populated Areas
#24  Removal of Civilians and Civilian Objects from the Vicinity of Military Objectives
  #97  Human Shields
These are the principle reasons _(but not exclusively the only reasons) _for the number of civilian casualties incurred in response to Arab Palestinian acts of war → and → the hostile and violent acts against Israel in violation to Customary and International Humanitarian Law which hold the Arab Palestinians punishable.

It is an exceptionally prominent characteristic of the Hostie Arab Palestinian (HoAP) to blame some other party, as you have done here, for the civilian casualties and damage → which the HoAP incited → and then demonstrated an intentional and reckless disregard for human life by not complying with Customary IHL.

The total cost of the conflict is solely placed on the shoulders of the HoAP and the irresponsible and callous population that overtly supports the Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters that openly operate and parade in the territory.   The cost includes the retarded human development of the general territorial population that put the need for conflict above humanity and the improvement in the quality of life.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> How does killing civilians help that?



The deaths of civilians are a horrific side effect of that.  It can not be alleviated by Israel any more than they have already done against a hostile enemy.  It CAN, however, be alleviated by Gaza and its government with a few simple steps.

1.  (Most importantly)  STOP ATTACKING ISRAEL.  
2.  If you MUST attack Israel, launch attacks from areas which are far removed from civilians, or from where civilians have been removed to safety.
3.  If you MUST attack Israel, build bomb shelters for citizens, and provide early warning systems.

None of this is rocket science.


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said it so much better than I did.


----------



## Shusha

Also, here's the thing.  If winning the conflict is SO important that you would sacrifice your citizens and your children for it, you have no right to complain when your citizens and your children die for it.


----------



## member

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the survey, the coordinator asked the residents what they would prefer to do with $3 million: "Would you prefer to invest in a terror tunnel or an oncology ward for sick children in Gaza?
> 
> "You chose - a pediatric oncology department. So why does Hamas not ask you why it chooses to invest in the death tunnels?" he wrote.
> 
> He added a video showing the air force bombing a terror tunnel today in Khan Yunis. "This is further evidence that the Hamas terrorist organization is burning your money," Abu Rukun wrote.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 'Residents of Gaza, why doesn't Hamas ask you?'
> 
> 
> 
> Those tunnels were a good defense in the last war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, what?!  So you are telling the people of Gaza that their wish for a pediatric oncology department is the WRONG choice?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those tunnels changed the course of the war. Israel got its ass kicked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What planet do you live on?????
Click to expand...





at least 

 he admitted that the palestinians have 

 _goofy leaders_.....






 *"Those tunnels were a good defense in the last war..."*





 - kite bombs



- brainwashing & recruiting children to act like _them_...a terrorist 

 




- 

 dissing cease-fires and peace offerings...



- blaming israel 

 for the continued violence when they _retaliate_ against a mob of _people_ tossing molotov cocktails over the border, defending against a mob of people 

 rushing the border ..._people_ [recruits&kids] starting fires...[_the list goes on_...]


*"good defense, last war"* - stop trying to "build up" hamass as if they're nothing but, pond-scum.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gaza Rocket Attack: Who Covered It and How? | HonestReporting


----------



## Sixties Fan

While denying shooting rockets, Hamas threatens Israel with rockets (video) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Let us see how this one works, today  ]

Terror leader tells Gazans to keep border protests nonviolent after flareup


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

The mainstream media in the West has very clear agendas on most issues. When it comes to the State of Israel, the agenda is clear. The most common mantra is that Israel is the oppressor and the so called “Palestinians” – especially the children – are the oppressed.

#Gaza: 
Just listen this courageous #Palestinian as he criticizes #Hamas's 
violent actions for putting children at risk in their riots and
outbreaks at the border fences with #Israel.

Voices are being heard from the cracks

JerUSAlem Israel on Twitter

(full article online)

Mainstream media isn't reporting what this Gazan just said, but we are


----------



## Hollie

We can look back in time 4 months or 400 years or even 1400 years and nothing about Islamism has changed. 

The Islamic barbarians are Crusading and only force of arms will repel them.


----------



## Hollie

The images transfer across time. Whether it's 2018 or 1018, the ideology and even the tactics / weapons remain unchanged.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Yousef Munayyer & CPJ's Robert Mahoney join @AymanM on Gaza protests on MSNBC*

**


----------



## Hollie

Yahya "Kill the Jews" Sinwar


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> *Yousef Munayyer & CPJ's Robert Mahoney join @AymanM on Gaza protests on MSNBC*
> 
> **



x # of palestinians are killed.  that's cause they have no decent role models, or mentors (or God in their lives).... the people killed, terrorists are their mentors and role models ---. 

 it's hamass's _doing_....


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF strikes Hamas post in Gaza over fire balloon launches


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> Yahya "Kill the Jews" Sinwar









* ... "big push....."*​




_no, you_...*!*


----------



## Sixties Fan

Sadly, many shirtless Gaza protesters never get famous ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


>






. . .They're all just fucked up in the head(s)........[_i feel really sorry for them_] .....



on a christian tv show i watch -- they're ALWAYS in israel interviewing the IDF, interviewing the soldiers, the captain....the lieutenant....etc.... right over there brinkmore, at the front lines where all those poor males paletinians are...........horror stories.  they WANT so bad to make nice.....but....terrorists ruining any chance of peace.....islamic terrorism getting in the way. 

 what else is new.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Five Palestinians said killed in Gaza riots, one by his own hand-grenade


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> Five Palestinians said killed in Gaza riots, one by his own hand-grenade


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF attacks Hamas targets in Gaza as violence continues


----------



## Sixties Fan

Rocket barrage on southern Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

Iran-backed terror group says it will halt fire after talking with Egypt; no acknowledgement of deal by Israel, which strikes IJ targets in 95 raids

(full article online)

Islamic Jihad calls ceasefire as Israel hits back at 30-plus rockets from Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ They know that it is the Jewish Shabbat.  So much for respect and co-existence ]

30 rockets hit Israel on Friday night


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF strikes Gazans during alleged attempt to sabotage border


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> IDF strikes Gazans during alleged attempt to sabotage border



More peaceful peace from the peaceful people of Gaza.


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Five Palestinians said killed in Gaza riots, one by his own hand-grenade




I heard it was a work accident.


----------



## rylah

Posts like these plastered all over Facebook instructing protesters to bring guns, knives, infiltrate Israel en masse, invade nearby villages and kidnap Israelis.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> Posts like these plastered all over Facebook instructing protesters to bring guns, knives, infiltrate Israel en masse, invade nearby villages and kidnap Israelis.



I have three words( RIGHT OF RETURN.  Your problem is that you’re don’t give people a chance
Seriously, Israel should shoot to kill anyone who tries to get in and tear down the fence.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israelis living near Gaza use social media to show hardships


----------



## Sixties Fan

Report: Hamas to suspend violent protests along Gaza border until Sunday


----------



## Sixties Fan

Despite Israeli-Egyptian import ban, border rioters rely on seemingly endless supply of old, discarded tires — while drivers have to resort to creative alternatives

(full article online)

In Gaza, tire shortage hits motorists but not protesters


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Report: Hamas to suspend violent protests along Gaza border until Sunday


Good post. Maybe those protests will kick something loose.


----------



## rylah

Sixties Fan said:


> Report: Hamas to suspend violent protests along Gaza border until Sunday



That's total BS, yesterday Palestinian media was full of calls to Friday riots.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ma'an reports that the organizers of the weekly riots at the Gaza fence will continue their protests today, under the slogan of "Down with the Balfour Declaration."

Somehow it doesn't sound like they are against "occupation."

But the report says that the terror factions of Gaza - Islamic Jihad, Hamas, PFLP and others - have informally agreed to reduce the number of incendiary balloons, to reduce the number of burning tires, and to discourage people from cutting the fence, "in order to reduce the casualties and keep the marches in their peaceful nature."

Which is an admission that the "marches" were never peaceful.

(full article online)

Hamas says they will not be as violent in their "peaceful demonstrations" today ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Booby-Trapped Balloon Found in Eshkol Kindergarten


----------



## Sixties Fan

Balloons of Terror


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Ma'an reports that the organizers of the weekly riots at the Gaza fence will continue their protests today, under the slogan of "Down with the Balfour Declaration."
> 
> Somehow it doesn't sound like they are against "occupation."



It has nothing to do with the "occupation" or the blockade and never had.  Even those with the Palestinian Mentality know that the fastest route to end the blockade is peace and normalization with Israel.  This is about destroying Israel and always has been.


----------



## Mindful

Demonstrators in Gaza may soon have to look for a new protest accessory of choice after Israel blocked the import of car tyres into the strip.


Images from weekly rallies by Palestinians in the region regularly feature the sight of burning tyres, which create a thick black smoke to obscure the vision of Israeli snipers and create a more intimidating atmosphere.

Israel Blocks Tyre Imports Into Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  These......are invaders.....(which is the meaning of their name....little do they know ]

A Gaza Arab on Friday evening was able to infiltrate Israel through the border fence in northern Gaza and reach one of the communities on the Israeli side.

Israeli security forces identified the suspect, arrested him and took him for questioning.

No weapons were seized.

During the incident, a fire broke out in one of the greenhouses in the community which the suspect inflitrated. While it was initially believed the fire was caused from a flare that was fired by the Israeli forces, a preliminary interrogation of the suspect caught found that he was the one that started the fire.

(full article online)

Gaza Arab caught after infiltrating into Israel


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Sixties Fan said:


> [  These......are invaders.....(which is the meaning of their name....little do they know ]
> 
> A Gaza Arab on Friday evening was able to infiltrate Israel through the border fence in northern Gaza and reach one of the communities on the Israeli side.
> 
> Israeli security forces identified the suspect, arrested him and took him for questioning.
> 
> No weapons were seized.
> 
> During the incident, a fire broke out in one of the greenhouses in the community which the suspect inflitrated. While it was initially believed the fire was caused from a flare that was fired by the Israeli forces, a preliminary interrogation of the suspect caught found that he was the one that started the fire.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Gaza Arab caught after infiltrating into Israel



I honestly don’t know why he’s not shot on sight.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ The Muslim/Arab Nation at work ]

According to_ Kan,_ Sinwar's deputy Khalil Al Hayya replied that it was "not a problem".


The report comes as a long-term cease-fire between Israel and Hamas appears to be gaining traction. A central part of the deal has been Qatar's efforts to rehabilitate the Gaza Strip.

Qatar, which has poured billions into Gaza, is home to former prominent members of Hamas including ex-leader Khaled Mashaal.

As part of the emerging cease-fire, Gaza's civil servants got their first paycheck in months on Friday in a payout funded by Qatar. Sinwar has told Egyptian intermediaries earlier this month that he will escalate the weekly border riots if the money is not transferred.

(full article online)

Qatar to Hamas: 'It's time for quiet'


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Your Favorite Things About Israel
※→ Sixties Fan, et al,

This is an example of "Terrorist Blackmail."



Sixties Fan said:


> [ The Muslim/Arab Nation at work ]As part of the emerging cease-fire, Gaza's civil servants got their first paycheck in months on Friday in a payout funded by Qatar. Sinwar has told Egyptian intermediaries earlier this month that he will escalate the weekly border riots if the money is not transferred.
> (full article online)


*(COMMENT)*

Threatening Criminal Acts directed against Israel intended to extort payment is "blackmail;" plain and simple.  And the nature of the of the consequences if Qatar does not pay the $15M in ransom - HAMAS will "escalate the weekly border riots."  This is an International Crime [Article 2(4) UN Charter] _(extortion with a view to the perpetration of criminal acts → ransom for peace )_.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israelis Near Gaza Border Block Goods In Protest of Weekly Riots, Greenhouse Fire


----------



## Sixties Fan

6 Hamas terrorists eliminated in Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

Dozens of rockets fired at Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Put an end to it, already !!  ]

Watch: IDF strikes Gaza terror targets


----------



## Sixties Fan

The graphic includes a depiction of an Israel Aircraft Industries facility in the city.

The only indication I could find of an IAI facility in Ashkelon was a command and control center set up during Operation Cast Lead to tell civilian rescue forces where to go when Hamas shoots rockets at the city - in other words, a place to help save civilian lives.  It is not a military site.

Hamas will use this graphic to claim that they are "warning" Israeli civilians the same way Israel warns Gazans to get out of buildings minutes before they are bombed.

But Israel issues warnings to save civilian lives. Hamas issues warnings to terrorize Israelis. It isn't humanitarian - it is part of Hamas' war.

(full article online)

Hamas issues warning to Ashkelon residents, claiming the entire city is a military target ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israeli Air Force official says IDF hitting terror targets in urban areas in Gaza, without killing anyone.'

Senior Air Force Official: 'IDF levelling seven-story buildings in aggressive response'


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Massing at the borders, amassing rockets and other weapons.
Oh, those poor, poor Palestinians who are unarmed....always in the eyes of others, and offer absolutely NO threat to anyone in Israel.
Where in the world could they be getting those rockets from?
Oh, yes........Iran..... ]

370 Rockets Fired at Israel From Gaza; 1 Israeli Killed


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Yes, Israel is getting the message that the only way to deal with Gaza is to put an end to Hamas and all other groups]


Gaza terrorists reportedly seek to end fighting after launching 400 rockets, say Israel has 'gotten the message.'

The rocket fire began Monday afternoon and has continued ever since. The rocket barrage is the largest attack on Israel since Operation Protective Edge in 2014.

Some 400 rockets and mortars were fired at southern Israel from the Gaza Strip since Monday. The IDF reported earlier Tuesday morning that it had struck some 150 terrorist positions across the Gaza Strip since last night.

(full article online)

Report: Hamas seeking ceasefire, but rockets continue


----------



## Sixties Fan

Egyptian Delegation to Arrive Wednesday in Israel as Hamas Intensifies Hostilities


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians Fire Over 400 Rockets at Israel | HonestReporting


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ As usual, Hamas does not care whom it kills ]




Mahmoud Abu Asabeh, 48, from the West Bank town of Halhul north of Hebron, was killed late Monday, November 12, 2018, when a rocket launched by Gaza terrorists struck a home in the southern Israeli coastal city of Ashkelon. (Twitter screen capture)

Man killed in Ashkelon rocket attack was Palestinian from Hebron area


----------



## Sixties Fan

​ 




 


(full article online)

Israel’s warning to Hamas of impending destruction of Al-Aqsa TV building caught on camera - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Mindful




----------



## Sixties Fan

Unfortunately, from time to time, we must give our enemies a violent reminder, lest they continue terrorizing us. The very fact that Hamas continues its actions unabated shows a lack of deterrence, without which no truce is worth the paper it is signed on. Expecting Hamas to honor agreements with the Jewish state it wants to annihilate is inexcusably naive. Extortion that leads to an "agreement" is a prelude to more extortion.

The assumption that boosting the quality of life for Gazans will reduce Hamas' violence and hatred is fundamentally flawed. There is no place on this planet where there is a direct correlation between quality of life and terrorism. This holds true in the Palestinian case as well.

Recent polls show that Gazans are actually less hostile toward Israel than are their brethren in Judea and Samaria, where the quality of life is better. Perhaps the suffering in Gaza has taught them that prolonged conflict with Israel comes with great pain. While it is true that it takes time to change the behavior of large groups of people, what ultimately makes a population embark on a new political path is the degree to which it suffers. Germans suffered immensely during the two world wars and have since shed their violent past. Egypt also realized that a peace deal with Israel trumps more violence.

(full article online)

http://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/in-the-middle-east-you-win-with-fear/


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ This has to end.  For good.  ]

Hamas and other Gaza terror groups said earlier Tuesday afternoon that they had accepted an Egyptian-mediated ceasefire with Israel. Terms of the deal were not immediately known, and there was no immediate comment from Israel. But a senior Israeli diplomatic official appeared to confirm the reported armistice.

“Israel maintains its right to act. Requests from Hamas for a ceasefire came through four different mediators. Israel responded that the events on the ground will decide [if a ceasefire will go into effect],” the official said, on condition of anonymity.

Israel’s Hadashot TV news said Egypt’s President Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi urged Israel behind the scenes to accept the ceasefire.

According to the military, over 460 rockets and mortar shells were fired at southern Israel over the course of 25 hours on Monday and Tuesday. The Iron Dome missile defense system intercepted over 100 of them. Most of the rest landed in open fields, but dozens landed inside Israeli cities and towns, killing one person, injuring dozens more, and causing significant property damage.

(full article online)

Defense minister, 3 colleagues oppose Gaza ceasefire said pushed by Netanyahu


----------



## Sixties Fan

The path of a piece of shrapnel: A minor story that made no headlines


----------



## Sixties Fan

The renewed Hamas attacks on Israel serve as a reminder that the terrorist group is not interested in a real truce. Hamas wants millions of dollars paid to its employees so that it can continue to prepare for war with Israel while not having to worry about the welfare of its people.


Qatar's $15 million cash grant has failed to stop Hamas from launching hundreds of rockets into Israel. On the contrary, the money has only emboldened Hamas and increased its appetite to continue its jihad to eliminate Israel. All the money in the world will not convince Hamas to abandon its ideology or soften its position toward Israel.


What the international mediators need to understand is that there is only one solution to the crisis in the Gaza Strip: removing Hamas from power and destroying its military capabilities. They also need to understand that there is only one language that Hamas understands: the language of force. The assumption that if you pay terrorists millions of dollars, they will stop attacking you -- rather than using the funds to build up their forces -- has proven to be false.

(full article online)

Massive Missile Attack on Israel after Qatar Funds Hamas


----------



## Sixties Fan

PCHR admits that "Al Amal Hotel", destroyed by Israel, was a Hamas headquarters ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Besides making it clear that they believe that all of Israel is "occupied," the statement brags about targeting "houses of settlers" - which is not a military target under any circumstances.

Yet throughout the two day bombardment of Israeli towns and cities in the south, not one tweet from Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch was issued condemning this clear and obvious war crime and attack on the lives of Israelis.

HRW's Ken Roth, who tweets every daylight hour and who can always find anti-Israel articles to publicize, couldn't issue a single tweet about hundreds of rockets being shot into Israel.

Omar Shakir, HRW's Israel and Palestine Director, retweeted others' outrage at Israel attacking the Al Aqsa TV station, but didn't say a word about the hundreds of rockets shot indiscriminately at Israel.

The rule at these NGOs is that it is only acceptable to mention war crimes against Israelis after there are ten times as much discussion of alleged Israeli crimes.

(full article online)

Gaza terror groups brag about bombing civilians. @HRW and @Amnesty completely silent on admitted war crimes. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

CAMERA Prompts NBC Correction on Terror Kites, SJP | CAMERA


----------



## Sixties Fan

About a half hour before Hamas' TV station in the Gaza Strip was bombed by Israel, the station broadcast a music video repeatedly announcing: "Death to Israel." The video shows footage from terror attacks and scenes from funerals and burials of Israeli terror victims. The words "DEATH TO ISRAEL" flash in Hebrew on the screen as the Arabic song focuses on that message:
















*Song:* "Expel the thieving occupier from the enraged land of Jerusalem,
Rid your house of that one, that Zionist in his humiliation,
Write 'death, death, death to Israel' with flowing blood,
And with the bleeding body cause death, death, death to Israel"

*Text on screen in Hebrew: "Death to Israel"*

*Hamas leader Nizar Rayan:* "[Remember] Khaibar, Khaibar, O Jews. The soldiers of Muhammad have started to return."

_Visuals: Funeral of Israeli terror victims_
*Song:* "Be red death. Have no mercy on the army of aggression that wears the clothes of the soldier and the settler."
[Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas), Nov. 12, 2018

"Death to Israel" song on Hamas TV half-hour before station destroyed - PMW Bulletins


----------



## Sixties Fan

Understanding the missile and rocket threat


----------



## Sixties Fan

Over the past two days, Palestinian terror groups in Gaza have fired over 400 rockets and missiles into Israeli population centers, resulting in 1 death and more than 70 injured.

Since each such attack is a war crime, one might expect human rights NGOs to condemn these blatant violations of human rights. In particular, groups and individuals that immediately and routinely condemn any Israeli action that they do not like.

However, that has not happened. Instead, NGOs and NGO officials have entirely ignored the Palestinian violations against Israelis. Some have simply remained silent, while others have focused exclusively on demonizing Israel. Notably, Palestinian NGOs, which claim to meticulously document violations occurring in Gaza, have not released detailed accounts of the illegal launches of indiscriminate weapons into Israel nor systematically examined how combatants embed themselves among civilian infrastructure.

(full article online)

NGOs Disappear When Rockets Start Flying from Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

From start to finish, today’s _Times_ article about fighting between Hamas and Israel downplays the extent of Hamas violence while suggesting Israel is responsible for the terror group’s rocket attacks. Meanwhile, Israeli retaliatory strikes on Hamas targets are portrayed as being no different than the Hamas’s indiscriminate attacks on Israeli civilians — largely because the article fails to mention even once that Hamas is a terror group, or that it is sworn to Israel’s destruction, or that the rockets it fires are indiscriminately lobbed toward Israeli civilians in their towns and cities in violation of international law.

The piece’s opening paragraphs set the tone, with the reporter suggesting Israeli responsibility by insinuating Israel’s prime minister is failing to prevent pointless shooting:

(full article online)

In New York Times, a False Equivalence Between Hamas and Israeli Rockets | CAMERA


----------



## Sixties Fan

Trauma and Terror: The View from the South | HonestReporting


----------



## Mindful

The renewed Hamas attacks on Israel serve as a reminder that the terrorist group is not interested in a real truce. Hamas wants millions of dollars paid to its employees so that it can continue to prepare for war with Israel while not having to worry about the welfare of its people.


Qatar's $15 million cash grant has failed to stop Hamas from launching hundreds of rockets into Israel. On the contrary, the money has only emboldened Hamas and increased its appetite to continue its jihad to eliminate Israel. All the money in the world will not convince Hamas to abandon its ideology or soften its position toward Israel.


What the international mediators need to understand is that there is only one solution to the crisis in the Gaza Strip: removing Hamas from power and destroying its military capabilities. They also need to understand that there is only one language that Hamas understands: the language of force. The assumption that if you pay terrorists millions of dollars, they will stop attacking you -- rather than using the funds to build up their forces -- has proven to be false.


Massive Missile Attack on Israel after Qatar Funds Hamas


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The renewed Hamas attacks on Israel serve as a reminder that the terrorist group is not interested in a real truce. Hamas wants millions of dollars paid to its employees so that it can continue to prepare for war with Israel while not having to worry about the welfare of its people.
> 
> 
> Qatar's $15 million cash grant has failed to stop Hamas from launching hundreds of rockets into Israel. On the contrary, the money has only emboldened Hamas and increased its appetite to continue its jihad to eliminate Israel. All the money in the world will not convince Hamas to abandon its ideology or soften its position toward Israel.
> 
> 
> What the international mediators need to understand is that there is only one solution to the crisis in the Gaza Strip: removing Hamas from power and destroying its military capabilities. They also need to understand that there is only one language that Hamas understands: the language of force. The assumption that if you pay terrorists millions of dollars, they will stop attacking you -- rather than using the funds to build up their forces -- has proven to be false.
> (full article online)
> 
> Massive Missile Attack on Israel after Qatar Funds Hamas


The Israeli commando unit was not inside the Gaza Strip to kill or kidnap anyone. They were there as part of a routine covert operation to foil terrorist attacks by Hamas and other Palestinian terror groups. The commandos, all the same, were attacked by Hamas terrorists who did try to kill or kidnap some of them. The soldiers of the elite Israeli unit managed to return to Israel under the cover of Israeli airstrikes called in to aid their exfiltration.

What is clear is that it was Hamas, not Israel, that initiated the armed clash with the Israeli force. It was Hamas that attacked the Israeli soldiers, killed the officer,​Read that carefully. Hamas engaged Israeli troops in Gaza. Then Hamas is accused of attacking them.

You can't make this shit up.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Besides making it clear that they believe that all of Israel is "occupied," the statement brags about targeting "houses of settlers" - which is not a military target under any circumstances.


Israeli settlers are not protected persons (read civilians) by the IV Geneva Convention.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Listeners were not told at this point or anywhere else in the programme that following the incident near Khan Younis on November 11th, Gaza Strip terrorists launched seventeen missile attacksagainst civilians in Israel.  

Shah went on to quote a Tweet.

Shah: “Well the UN envoy for the Middle East peace process, Nikolay Mladinov, Tweeted a short while ago saying the escalation in the past 24 hours is extremely dangerous and reckless. Rockets must stop, restraint must be shown by all. No effort must be spared to reverse the spiral of violence. Well Avi Issacharoff [wrongly pronounced] is Middle East analyst for the Times of Israel and one of the creators of the Israeli political thriller Fauda. Does hethink a further escalation of violence is inevitable?”

Listeners then heard a discussion of the background to events with Avi Issacharoff beginning by stating “I do believe that we are into an escalation already.”

Shah: “But it comes – the timing is [unintelligible] – it comes as Benjamin Netanyahu has been saying very publicly that he wants to avoid war and many people believe that there are long-term efforts to try and maintain a truce, if not establish a better peace.”

Issacharoff pointed out that “Hamas is calling for the elimination of the State of Israel” and went on to mention a story about which BBC audiences have to date heard nothing.

Issacharoff: “Israel not only allowed more gas…into Gaza but also allowed Qatari money that will pass into Hamas’ hands to pay the salaries of Hamas’ people” 

After Issacharoff had mentioned the Khan Younis incident as a factor behind the latest escalation, Shah brought up her own speculations.

Shah: “But what do you conclude from all of that then? Is Israel in a sense trying to curb Hamas before there is some kind of deal? Is this a preemptive action? What would you read into it?”

Having explained that any ‘deal’ does not mean a peace agreement in which the sides “live happily ever after with each other”, Issacharoff explained that such an understanding actually means that “there’s going to be quiet while both sides will continue to prepare themselves for the next war to come.”

Shah appeared rather shocked by the idea of an inevitable war:

Shah: “But you talk about the next war to come.”

With Issacharoff having again explained that “this will happen at the end of the day…” and that any agreement between Israel and Hamas is “a temporary truce”, Shah closed the item.

(full article online)

BBC Radio 4: nothing to see in southern Israel, move along to Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF general warns Gazans not to approach border, ‘our patience has run out’


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> IDF general warns Gazans not to approach border, ‘our patience has run out’



Nice, clear set of rules of the "Enter at your own risk" type.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

A correspondent for the UK’s Telegraph newspaper who was in Israel and Gaza to report on the conflict could not believe what he saw and heard: the IDF going to extraordinary lengths just to avoid collateral damage in the strikes it was forced to take after terror groups in Gaza launched 460 rockets at Israel this week.

The reporter, Raf Sanchez, tweeted, “We’ve just come out of Gaza for a quick trip to see how things are after this week’s fighting. A couple of observations.”

“We got a sense of how careful Israel was to avoid civilian casualties during the airstrikes in Gaza,” he explained.

“The Israeli army called one guy we met and spent 45 mins on the phone with him, getting him to evacuate his neighbors before they blew up a Hamas media building next to his,” reported Sanchez.

Sanchez was referring to the IDF policy of warning Palestinian civilians prior to strikes, which it does in order to prevent innocent civilians from being injured or killed when action must be taken against the terror group that rules the Gaza Strip, Hamas, or other factions there, such as Islamic Jihad.

(full article online)

British Reporter Amazed by IDF Efforts to Avoid Civilian Casualties in Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

Arabs at the Gaza border with Israel on Friday afternoon, Nov. 16 2018, defying the directives of an Egyptian mediation team.
(full article online)

2 Gazans Dead After Violating Ceasefire, Ignoring Egyptian Request to Stay Away from Israeli Border


----------



## Sixties Fan

Today's Gaza fence protests are aimed against Gulf Arab states, not Israel! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

BBC WS ‘OS’ presents an inverted portrayal of Gaza rocket attacks


----------



## rylah

Anti-Israel propagandist from the Gaza Terror Strip drops an accidental truth bomb:

*Gaza’s Self-Proclaimed “Modern Anne Frank” Messes Up & Admits IDF Tries to Avoid Civilian Casualties*


----------



## rylah

*Hamas founder says he is willing to send his mother & daughters to a suicide mission*

WHOOPS! Hamas Terror Leader Admits the Truth and DESTROYS Liberal Media Narrative. 
Hamas leader admits he "sacrificed the bodies of our women and children" to "force the whole world to split its TV screen" at the US embassy opening. 
The media played right into Hamas' hands. Palestinian lives were lost to create a media spectacle. 
Muslims in Gaza fire rockets at Israel targeting Israeli civilians. 
Kindergartens, synagogues, hospitals and schools are all in the range of Hamas rockets. 
Why is the whole world silent? and Why the is media turning a blind eye? Because they do not want to damage the image of Islam, which is supposed to be a "religion of peace." 






Hamas founder says he is willing to send his mother & daughters to a suicide mission - Speech Point


----------



## Sixties Fan

When is a protest not a protest? What is free speech, really?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  rylah, et al,

This is an example of material that should be indexed as evidence of Rule 97 incitement of criminal activity.

v/r
R



rylah said:


> *Hamas founder says he is willing to send his mother & daughters to a suicide mission*
> 
> WHOOPS! Hamas Terror Leader Admits the Truth and DESTROYS Liberal Media Narrative.
> Hamas leader admits he "sacrificed the bodies of our women and children" to "force the whole world to split its TV screen" at the US embassy opening.
> The media played right into Hamas' hands. Palestinian lives were lost to create a media spectacle.
> Muslims in Gaza fire rockets at Israel targeting Israeli civilians.
> Kindergartens, synagogues, hospitals and schools are all in the range of Hamas rockets.
> Why is the whole world silent? and Why the is media turning a blind eye? Because they do not want to damage the image of Islam, which is supposed to be a "religion of peace."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas founder says he is willing to send his mother & daughters to a suicide mission - Speech Point


----------



## Sixties Fan

In a new violation of the Israel-Hamas ceasefire deal worked out by Egyptian mediators last week, a homemade military attack drone was discovered on Monday in a southern Israeli community near the Gaza border.

Security officials said the drone, which was carrying explosives, appeared to have landed several days ago in the Sdot Negev Regional Council district.

(full article online)

New Violation of Israel-Hamas Ceasefire Deal


----------



## Sixties Fan

The recent spate of rocket attacks against Israel conducted by Gaza-based Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists was raised at the UN Security Council on Monday, in the context of broader remarks by US Ambassador Nikki Haley on Iran’s continuing malign influence across the region.

“Yes, Israel launched airstrikes on military posts, weapons depots, and intelligence assets in Gaza,” Haley told the Security Council meeting on the Middle East. “But it did so in response to over 400 rockets and mortars that were fired indiscriminately from Gaza into Israel.”

Continued Haley: “Neighborhoods were targeted. A bus was bombed by an anti-tank missile. Families were forced into bomb shelters to escape the barrage.”

Haley added that “even if you accept Hamas’ excuse that it launched its missiles in response to an Israeli covert operation, you cannot escape the fact that the Gaza militants targeted civilians in response.”

(full article online)

Iran-Backed Palestinian Terror Groups Targeted Israeli Civilians During Recent Gaza Flare-Up, US Envoy Haley Tells UN Security Council


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> When is a protest not a protest? What is free speech, really?



This is actually a great example of how those of us in the US, Canada and most of Europe understand protests and apply our concept to Gaza, assuming that "protests" in Gaza MUST be the same as protests in Ottawa or DC.  And, of course, Hamas exploits that.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Report: Hamas preparing for Israeli operation despite ceasefire


----------



## Sixties Fan

Report: Hamas preparing for Israeli operation despite ceasefire


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  Daddy Iran is willing to pay its children to die ]

Ma'an reports that the Hamas-linked committee in charge of the weekly riots at the Gaza border has announced that Iran plans to pay the families of anyone killed in the riots.

In addition, Iran says it will pay those injured, and also provide medical attention for them.

"Iran's adoption of the martyrs of the return and wounded marchers is an important step in supporting the steadfastness of the people and supporting the resistance in this way and in other ways," said Hussein Mansour, a member of the Coordinating Committee for the March of Return and Breaking the Siege.

(full article online )

Iran says it will pay all those injured and killed at Gaza riots ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Mindful

A member of a UN Human Rights Council commission, which is investigating the events of recent months on the Israel-Gaza border, asked two Israelis living near the strip, “If that is the situation, why do you continue living there?”

Over the weekend, Batia Holin from Kibbutz Kfar Aza and Adele Raemer from Kibbutz Nirim accepted an invitation to speak in front of the UNHRC’s Independent Commission of Inquiry for events on the 2018 Gaza border and tell its members of life under the threat of arson terrorism and rocket fire.

The two said that despite being invited to speak in front of the UN commission in Geneva, they lowered their expectations, knowing the United Nations’ pro-Palestinian bias.

They were still surprised, though, when after describing their life under the threat of rockets, tunnels, incendiary balloon and kites and the fires they cause, one of the commission’s members he asked them why they continued living close to the border.

“When I was asked why I was staying in my home and not leaving because of the situation, I realized how disconnected from reality the members of the commissions are,” Holin told Ynet.


“I told them about our lives under the rocket threat, about the tunnels that were found, about the tire smoke that suffocates us from the protests every Friday. The commission members don’t know Israel or the Gaza Strip. They’ve never visited here. I had to show them on a map how close my kibbutz is to the border and explain what that means,” she went on to say.

Can you imagine anyone in the UNHRC commission asking a Gazan “If that is the situation, why do you continue living there?”

The UNHRC In a Nutshell


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  Mindful, et al,

I agree.  The Commission of the UN Human Rights Council appears to be just a game to them.  They certainly are not equipped, intellectually, to tackle the problem.



Mindful said:


> A member of a UN Human Rights Council commission, which is investigating the events of recent months on the Israel-Gaza border, asked two Israelis living near the strip, “If that is the situation, why do you continue living there?”
> ...
> The UNHRC In a Nutshell


*(COMMENT)*

I'm not sure if the commission has members and staff that have any competency on how to investigate a Human Rights issue. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Submission to the UN Commission of Inquiry on the 2018 Gaza Protests


----------



## Sixties Fan

The two said that despite being invited to speak in front of the UN commission in Geneva, they lowered their expectations, knowing the United Nations' pro-Palestinian bias. 

They were still surprised, though, when after describing their life under the threat of rockets, tunnels, incendiary balloon and kites and the fires they cause, one of the commission's members he asked them why they continued living close to the border. 

"When I was asked why I was staying in my home and not leaving because of the situation, I realized how disconnected from reality the members of the commissions are," Holin told Ynet. "They have no idea how we live here and what the Zionist idea is all about." 

"We got to the commission with a presentation and a lot of material to demonstrate to the team there, which is headed by a jurist, what our life on the Gaza border looks like. We were supposed to each appear separately for an hour and a half, but we ended up speaking for four hours," Holin continued. 

"I told them about our lives under the rocket threat, about the tunnels that were found, about the tire smoke that suffocates us from the protests every Friday. The commission members don't know Israel or the Gaza Strip. They've never visited here. I had to show them on a map how close my kibbutz is to the border and explain what that means," she went on to say. 

"They asked me: 'How do you explain the fact that on one Friday during the protests, the IDF killed dozens of Palestinians who came near the border fence?' I told them those protesters, who are sent by Hamas, wanted to infiltrate my home to hurt us—so we have the legitimacy to defend ourselves," Holin concluded.

(full article online)

UN representative to Israelis: Why do you keep living on Gaza border?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The two said that despite being invited to speak in front of the UN commission in Geneva, they lowered their expectations, knowing the United Nations' pro-Palestinian bias.
> 
> They were still surprised, though, when after describing their life under the threat of rockets, tunnels, incendiary balloon and kites and the fires they cause, one of the commission's members he asked them why they continued living close to the border.
> 
> "When I was asked why I was staying in my home and not leaving because of the situation, I realized how disconnected from reality the members of the commissions are," Holin told Ynet. "They have no idea how we live here and what the Zionist idea is all about."
> 
> "We got to the commission with a presentation and a lot of material to demonstrate to the team there, which is headed by a jurist, what our life on the Gaza border looks like. We were supposed to each appear separately for an hour and a half, but we ended up speaking for four hours," Holin continued.
> 
> "I told them about our lives under the rocket threat, about the tunnels that were found, about the tire smoke that suffocates us from the protests every Friday. The commission members don't know Israel or the Gaza Strip. They've never visited here. I had to show them on a map how close my kibbutz is to the border and explain what that means," she went on to say.
> 
> "They asked me: 'How do you explain the fact that on one Friday during the protests, the IDF killed dozens of Palestinians who came near the border fence?' I told them those protesters, who are sent by Hamas, wanted to infiltrate my home to hurt us—so we have the legitimacy to defend ourselves," Holin concluded.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> UN representative to Israelis: Why do you keep living on Gaza border?


Israel can stop its war whenever it wants.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, what do we call this example?

It's not so much an example of a demand for an unattainable peace.  It is what it implies and inferred from the lack of accomplishment or fulfillment. The idea that the lack of an end to the conflict demonstrates the opposite. 

It is a fallacy is that contains a controversial and unjustified assumption that the end of hostilities rests with Israel.  It has a complex assumption:

•  That it is actually possible for a unilateral witdrawal; just pack-up and leave.
•  That the departure of the Israelis will end hostilities.​


P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> UN representative to Israelis: Why do you keep living on Gaza border?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel can stop its war whenever it wants.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

This comment is absolutely wrong on some many levels.

There is an even further message buried in the comment that suggests the Israelis are solely responsible for the conflict.  And that the hostility and violence is entirely Israel's fault.

Finally, the comment, if applied to the current border clashes, suggests that the Israeli _(that suffers property damage from the Arab Palestinians)_ is at fault because their residence is too close to the Border.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, what do we call this example?
> 
> It's not so much an example of a demand for an unattainable peace.  It is what it implies and inferred from the lack of accomplishment or fulfillment. The idea that the lack of an end to the conflict demonstrates the opposite.
> 
> It is a fallacy is that contains a controversial and unjustified assumption that the end of hostilities rests with Israel.  It has a complex assumption:
> 
> •  That it is actually possible for a unilateral witdrawal; just pack-up and leave.
> •  That the departure of the Israelis will end hostilities.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> UN representative to Israelis: Why do you keep living on Gaza border?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel can stop its war whenever it wants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This comment is absolutely wrong on some many levels.
> 
> There is an even further message buried in the comment that suggests the Israelis are solely responsible for the conflict.  And that the hostility and violence is entirely Israel's fault.
> 
> Finally, the comment, if applied to the current border clashes, suggests that the Israeli _(that suffers property damage from the Arab Palestinians)_ is at fault because their residence is too close to the Border.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Europeans went to Palestine, kicked out the natives, and set up shop. Israel has been attacking the Palestinians ever since.

Where is my comment wrong?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, what do we call this example?
> 
> It's not so much an example of a demand for an unattainable peace.  It is what it implies and inferred from the lack of accomplishment or fulfillment. The idea that the lack of an end to the conflict demonstrates the opposite.
> 
> It is a fallacy is that contains a controversial and unjustified assumption that the end of hostilities rests with Israel.  It has a complex assumption:
> 
> •  That it is actually possible for a unilateral witdrawal; just pack-up and leave.
> •  That the departure of the Israelis will end hostilities.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> UN representative to Israelis: Why do you keep living on Gaza border?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel can stop its war whenever it wants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This comment is absolutely wrong on some many levels.
> 
> There is an even further message buried in the comment that suggests the Israelis are solely responsible for the conflict.  And that the hostility and violence is entirely Israel's fault.
> 
> Finally, the comment, if applied to the current border clashes, suggests that the Israeli _(that suffers property damage from the Arab Palestinians)_ is at fault because their residence is too close to the Border.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Europeans went to Palestine, kicked out the natives, and set up shop. Israel has been attacking the Palestinians ever since.
> 
> Where is my comment wrong?
Click to expand...


Why ISN`T your comment wrong?

Your so called `perception`of how things took place is completely false, and I`ve proved it dozens of times.

The Palestinians started the 1948 war, and lost. They then paid the price.

As for the current conflict between the Israelis and `Palestinians`, the Palestinians could have, and can still end the war whenever they want. But Hamas leaders and Palestinians leaders don`t want an end to the war.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, what do we call this example?
> 
> It's not so much an example of a demand for an unattainable peace.  It is what it implies and inferred from the lack of accomplishment or fulfillment. The idea that the lack of an end to the conflict demonstrates the opposite.
> 
> It is a fallacy is that contains a controversial and unjustified assumption that the end of hostilities rests with Israel.  It has a complex assumption:
> 
> •  That it is actually possible for a unilateral witdrawal; just pack-up and leave.
> •  That the departure of the Israelis will end hostilities.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> UN representative to Israelis: Why do you keep living on Gaza border?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel can stop its war whenever it wants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This comment is absolutely wrong on some many levels.
> 
> There is an even further message buried in the comment that suggests the Israelis are solely responsible for the conflict.  And that the hostility and violence is entirely Israel's fault.
> 
> Finally, the comment, if applied to the current border clashes, suggests that the Israeli _(that suffers property damage from the Arab Palestinians)_ is at fault because their residence is too close to the Border.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Europeans went to Palestine, kicked out the natives, and set up shop. Israel has been attacking the Palestinians ever since.
> 
> Where is my comment wrong?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why ISN`T your comment wrong?
> 
> Your so called `perception`of how things took place is completely false, and I`ve proved it dozens of times.
> 
> The Palestinians started the 1948 war, and lost. They then paid the price.
> 
> As for the current conflict between the Israelis and `Palestinians`, the Palestinians could have, and can still end the war whenever they want. But Hamas leaders and Palestinians leaders don`t want an end to the war.
Click to expand...


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, what do we call this example?
> 
> It's not so much an example of a demand for an unattainable peace.  It is what it implies and inferred from the lack of accomplishment or fulfillment. The idea that the lack of an end to the conflict demonstrates the opposite.
> 
> It is a fallacy is that contains a controversial and unjustified assumption that the end of hostilities rests with Israel.  It has a complex assumption:
> 
> •  That it is actually possible for a unilateral witdrawal; just pack-up and leave.
> •  That the departure of the Israelis will end hostilities.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> UN representative to Israelis: Why do you keep living on Gaza border?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel can stop its war whenever it wants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This comment is absolutely wrong on some many levels.
> 
> There is an even further message buried in the comment that suggests the Israelis are solely responsible for the conflict.  And that the hostility and violence is entirely Israel's fault.
> 
> Finally, the comment, if applied to the current border clashes, suggests that the Israeli _(that suffers property damage from the Arab Palestinians)_ is at fault because their residence is too close to the Border.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Europeans went to Palestine, kicked out the natives, and set up shop. Israel has been attacking the Palestinians ever since.
> 
> Where is my comment wrong?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why ISN`T your comment wrong?
> 
> Your so called `perception`of how things took place is completely false, and I`ve proved it dozens of times.
> 
> The Palestinians started the 1948 war, and lost. They then paid the price.
> 
> As for the current conflict between the Israelis and `Palestinians`, the Palestinians could have, and can still end the war whenever they want. But Hamas leaders and Palestinians leaders don`t want an end to the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


If I had the patience, I would go threw my old posts and show everyone here how many times I destroyed your arguments and your BS logic. 

I beat you in every argument Tinmore, and you know I`m right


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, what do we call this example?
> 
> It's not so much an example of a demand for an unattainable peace.  It is what it implies and inferred from the lack of accomplishment or fulfillment. The idea that the lack of an end to the conflict demonstrates the opposite.
> 
> It is a fallacy is that contains a controversial and unjustified assumption that the end of hostilities rests with Israel.  It has a complex assumption:
> 
> •  That it is actually possible for a unilateral witdrawal; just pack-up and leave.
> •  That the departure of the Israelis will end hostilities.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel can stop its war whenever it wants.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This comment is absolutely wrong on some many levels.
> 
> There is an even further message buried in the comment that suggests the Israelis are solely responsible for the conflict.  And that the hostility and violence is entirely Israel's fault.
> 
> Finally, the comment, if applied to the current border clashes, suggests that the Israeli _(that suffers property damage from the Arab Palestinians)_ is at fault because their residence is too close to the Border.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Europeans went to Palestine, kicked out the natives, and set up shop. Israel has been attacking the Palestinians ever since.
> 
> Where is my comment wrong?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why ISN`T your comment wrong?
> 
> Your so called `perception`of how things took place is completely false, and I`ve proved it dozens of times.
> 
> The Palestinians started the 1948 war, and lost. They then paid the price.
> 
> As for the current conflict between the Israelis and `Palestinians`, the Palestinians could have, and can still end the war whenever they want. But Hamas leaders and Palestinians leaders don`t want an end to the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If I had the patience, I would go threw my old posts and show everyone here how many times I destroyed your arguments and your BS logic.
> 
> I beat you in every argument Tinmore, and you know I`m right
Click to expand...

Pffft. You haven't done shit.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a misrepresentation of the facts.



P F Tinmore said:


> Europeans went to Palestine, kicked out the natives, and set up shop. Israel has been
> 
> Where is my comment wrong?


*(COMMENT)*

You attempt to make four (4) successive accusations here:

◈  Europeans went to Palestine,

The Jewish people were invited to Palestine at the invitation of both the Soveren, anf the Allied Powers after the Sovereign renounces all rights and title:

⟴   Since tthe time of the great expulsions in the 14th and 15th Centuries, Jews in the Ottoman Empire Jews within Europe, and elsewhere throughout the empire, particularly found the Middle Eastern Region to "provided a principle place of refuge for Jews → driven out of western Europe by massacres and persecution".

⟴  The Sultan Abdul Aziz (in 1870) invited a large Jewish Contingent (from Paris) to help educate Ottoman Citizen in improve agriculture technques.  To this day, the Alliance Israelite Universelle has 13 Campuses through Israel.

⟴ In 1920, the San Remo Convention, the Allied Powers established the policy that they would  facilitate Jewish immigration, in co-operation with the Jewish Agency, close settlement by Jews on the Territory to be administered by Mandate.  During the period of the Madate (1922 - 1948) there was no policy or implemented action, by the Mandate Authority for the replacement of the Arab Palestinians with a Jewish population.  The intent was to establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.  It was clearly the intent to secure the co-operation of all Jews who were willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish National Home.​◈  kicked out the natives,

⟴  There was an Arab-Palestinian revolt largely organized to resist British support for a Jewish National Home.  This resulted in both British-Arab skirmishes as well as Jewish-Arab skirmishes throughout most the territory.  There was little doubt that fighting was onging prior to 1946.

⟴  a full scale Jewish-Arab Civil War is generally considered to be the period 30 November 1947 – 14 May 1948 with the adoption of GA Resolution 181 (II) (1947).   Not unlike most Civil Wars there are refugees.  The Arab Palestinians act like Civil Wars don't have such a thing.  In May '48, the refugee movement excelerated.

⟴   As the situation deteriorated, the Security Council called for a special session of the General Assembly, which then met from 16 April to 14 May 1948.  At mid-night 14/15 May '48, the Mandate terminated and the Israelis Declared Independence.  On 15 May the Arab League eneter the fray and crossed outside their country and forward to contact.

⟴   The movement of refugees had a number of reasons behind it, which is the topic of a number of best selling book.​◈  set up shop,

⟴  Here, once again, the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.

⟴  Declared independence in accordance with the "Steps Preparatory for Indepence."  This is a matter of self-determination on the part of the Jewish People, to establish the Jewish National Home.  It did not go off without a hitch as the Arab Palestinians and the Arab League were doing everything in there poweer, including the use of force.​◈  attacking the Palestinians ever since.

⟴ Since the Independence in 1948, Israel has consistanly defended itself (Article 51) from the resources of the Arab League, and the Hostile Arab Palestinians from:

✦  The threat of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel,
.............................................................OR
✦  The use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel.​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is a misrepresentation of the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Europeans went to Palestine, kicked out the natives, and set up shop. Israel has been
> 
> Where is my comment wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You attempt to make four (4) successive accusations here:
> 
> ◈  Europeans went to Palestine,
> 
> The Jewish people were invited to Palestine at the invitation of both the Soveren, anf the Allied Powers after the Sovereign renounces all rights and title:
> 
> ⟴   Since tthe time of the great expulsions in the 14th and 15th Centuries, Jews in the Ottoman Empire Jews within Europe, and elsewhere throughout the empire, particularly found the Middle Eastern Region to "provided a principle place of refuge for Jews → driven out of western Europe by massacres and persecution".
> 
> ⟴  The Sultan Abdul Aziz (in 1870) invited a large Jewish Contingent (from Paris) to help educate Ottoman Citizen in improve agriculture technques.  To this day, the Alliance Israelite Universelle has 13 Campuses through Israel.
> 
> ⟴ In 1920, the San Remo Convention, the Allied Powers established the policy that they would  facilitate Jewish immigration, in co-operation with the Jewish Agency, close settlement by Jews on the Territory to be administered by Mandate.  During the period of the Madate (1922 - 1948) there was no policy or implemented action, by the Mandate Authority for the replacement of the Arab Palestinians with a Jewish population.  The intent was to establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.  It was clearly the intent to secure the co-operation of all Jews who were willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish National Home.​◈  kicked out the natives,
> 
> ⟴  There was an Arab-Palestinian revolt largely organized to resist British support for a Jewish National Home.  This resulted in both British-Arab skirmishes as well as Jewish-Arab skirmishes throughout most the territory.  There was little doubt that fighting was onging prior to 1946.
> 
> ⟴  a full scale Jewish-Arab Civil War is generally considered to be the period 30 November 1947 – 14 May 1948 with the adoption of GA Resolution 181 (II) (1947).   Not unlike most Civil Wars there are refugees.  The Arab Palestinians act like Civil Wars don't have such a thing.  In May '48, the refugee movement excelerated.
> 
> ⟴   As the situation deteriorated, the Security Council called for a special session of the General Assembly, which then met from 16 April to 14 May 1948.  At mid-night 14/15 May '48, the Mandate terminated and the Israelis Declared Independence.  On 15 May the Arab League eneter the fray and crossed outside their country and forward to contact.
> 
> ⟴   The movement of refugees had a number of reasons behind it, which is the topic of a number of best selling book.​◈  set up shop,
> 
> ⟴  Here, once again, the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.
> 
> ⟴  Declared independence in accordance with the "Steps Preparatory for Indepence."  This is a matter of self-determination on the part of the Jewish People, to establish the Jewish National Home.  It did not go off without a hitch as the Arab Palestinians and the Arab League were doing everything in there poweer, including the use of force.​◈  attacking the Palestinians ever since.
> 
> ⟴ Since the Independence in 1948, Israel has consistanly defended itself (Article 51) from the resources of the Arab League, and the Hostile Arab Palestinians from:
> 
> ✦  The threat of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel,
> .............................................................OR
> ✦  The use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Nothing here refutes my post.

The Mandate never had any sovereignty over Palestine.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you need to re-read the posting again.  I never sad the Mandate had sovereignty.  The Allied Powers _(as a collective)_ were given the rights and title to the territory.  They decided what was best.  It was the Arab Palestinians, at the outset, that made a shambles of the territory.



P F Tinmore said:


> Nothing here refutes my post.
> 
> The Mandate never had any sovereignty over Palestine.


*(COMMENT)*

Each line of your statement was answered.  You don't see the answers because you do not want to see the answers.

And your first line above does not factually address a single point either your or I made.

And your second line addresses a subject matter, not at issue and not stated.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think you need to re-read the posting again.  I never sad the Mandate had sovereignty.  The Allied Powers _(as a collective)_ were given the rights and title to the territory.  They decided what was best.  It was the Arab Palestinians, at the outset, that made a shambles of the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing here refutes my post.
> 
> The Mandate never had any sovereignty over Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Each line of your statement was answered.  You don't see the answers because you do not want to see the answers.
> 
> And your first line above does not factually address a single point either your or I made.
> 
> And your second line addresses a subject matter, not at issue and not stated.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Allied Powers _(as a collective)_ were given the rights and title to the territory.


No they weren't.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Bord
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Allied Powers _(as a collective)_ were given the rights and title to the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> No they weren't.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*


			
				Treaty of Lausanne - Part I Political Clauses - Section I Territorial Clauses - Article 16 said:
			
		

> *ARTICLE 16*.
> 
> *Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title* whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.*
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.


You will notice that the Turkish Republic made it very clear.

Don't confuse Territorial Clauses with Nationality Clauses.  I've seen any number of people make that mistake.  And it should be remembered, the Treaty does NOT promise anything at all to the Arab Palestinians or any other inhabitance of the former Ottoman Empire.  It is a Treaty between the representative of certain Allied Powers and the Turkish Republic.  No one else is a party to the Treaty,



			
				Treaty of Lausanne - Political Clauses - Article I said:
			
		

> From the coming into force of the present Treaty, the state of peace will be definitely re-established between the British Empire, France, Italy, Japan, Greece, Roumania and the Serb-Croat-Slovene State of the one part, and Turkey of the other part, as well as between their respective nationals. Official relations will be resumed on both sides and, in the respective territories, diplomatic and consular representatives will receive, without prejudice to such agreements as may be concluded in the future, treatment in accordance with the general principles of international law.


Most Respectfully,
R​


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Bord
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Allied Powers _(as a collective)_ were given the rights and title to the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> No they weren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> Treaty of Lausanne - Part I Political Clauses - Section I Territorial Clauses - Article 16 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ARTICLE 16*.
> 
> *Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title* whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.*
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You will notice that the Turkish Republic made it very clear.
> 
> Don't confuse Territorial Clauses with Nationality Clauses.  I've seen any number of people make that mistake.  And it should be remembered, the Treaty does NOT promise anything at all to the Arab Palestinians or any other inhabitance of the former Ottoman Empire.  It is a Treaty between the representative of certain Allied Powers and the Turkish Republic.  No one else is a party to the Treaty,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Treaty of Lausanne - Political Clauses - Article I said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From the coming into force of the present Treaty, the state of peace will be definitely re-established between the British Empire, France, Italy, Japan, Greece, Roumania and the Serb-Croat-Slovene State of the one part, and Turkey of the other part, as well as between their respective nationals. Official relations will be resumed on both sides and, in the respective territories, diplomatic and consular representatives will receive, without prejudice to such agreements as may be concluded in the future, treatment in accordance with the general principles of international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R​
Click to expand...

You post so much verbosity trying to pretzel this up. The basis of international law is that the people and their territory are not separated. Many other laws hinge on this basic principle.

The people who lived in Lebanon became citizens of Lebanon.

The people who lived in Syria became citizens if Syria.

The people who lived in Iraq became citizens of Iraq.

The people who lived in Jordan became citizens of Jordan.

The people who lived in Palestine became refugees.

Palestine is the odd man out.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> You post so much verbosity trying to pretzel this up. The basis of international law is that the people and their territory are not separated. Many other laws hinge on this basic principle.
> 
> The people who lived in Lebanon became citizens of Lebanon.
> 
> The people who lived in Syria became citizens if Syria.
> 
> The people who lived in Iraq became citizens of Iraq.
> 
> The people who lived in Jordan became citizens of Jordan.
> 
> The people who lived in Palestine became refugees.
> 
> Palestine is the odd man out.



The basis of international law is that people are not HOSTILE to one another.  So, while we agree that Palestine is the odd man out, you are screwing up the reason for it.  The reason for it is the hostility demonstrated then, and now, toward the Jewish people in the Jewish homeland.  So let's try this again.  

The people of Lebanon became citizens of Lebanon.  No hostility.
The people of Syria became citizens of Syria.  No hostility.
The people of Iraq became citizens of Iraq.  No hostility.
The people of Jordan became citizens of Jordan.  No hostility.
The people of Palestine became citizens of Palestine -- the Jewish National Homeland, now called Israel.  Hostility breaks out.  And by "hostility breaks out" I MEAN that the Arabs refuse to entertain the idea that the Jewish people have, at LEAST, the SAME rights as the Arabs in that territory, including basic human rights like the right to LIFE let alone more complicated rights like self-determination and sovereignty over ancient historical indigenous homelands.  

The cause of the "odd man out" is Arab hostility towards Jews.  Period.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You post so much verbosity trying to pretzel this up. The basis of international law is that the people and their territory are not separated. Many other laws hinge on this basic principle.
> 
> The people who lived in Lebanon became citizens of Lebanon.
> 
> The people who lived in Syria became citizens if Syria.
> 
> The people who lived in Iraq became citizens of Iraq.
> 
> The people who lived in Jordan became citizens of Jordan.
> 
> The people who lived in Palestine became refugees.
> 
> Palestine is the odd man out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The basis of international law is that people are not HOSTILE to one another.  So, while we agree that Palestine is the odd man out, you are screwing up the reason for it.  The reason for it is the hostility demonstrated then, and now, toward the Jewish people in the Jewish homeland.  So let's try this again.
> 
> The people of Lebanon became citizens of Lebanon.  No hostility.
> The people of Syria became citizens of Syria.  No hostility.
> The people of Iraq became citizens of Iraq.  No hostility.
> The people of Jordan became citizens of Jordan.  No hostility.
> The people of Palestine became citizens of Palestine -- the Jewish National Homeland, now called Israel.  Hostility breaks out.  And by "hostility breaks out" I MEAN that the Arabs refuse to entertain the idea that the Jewish people have, at LEAST, the SAME rights as the Arabs in that territory, including basic human rights like the right to LIFE let alone more complicated rights like self-determination and sovereignty over ancient historical indigenous homelands.
> 
> The cause of the "odd man out" is Arab hostility towards Jews.  Period.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> I MEAN that the Arabs refuse to entertain the idea that the Jewish people have, at LEAST, the SAME rights as the Arabs in that territory, including basic human rights like the right to LIFE let alone more complicated rights like self-determination and sovereignty over ancient historical indigenous homelands.


It was not the "same" rights that were the problem. It was the superiority and exclusion of the Zionist settlers that was the problem.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Bord
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You are absolutely incorrect.  You are 0 for 6.  And, BTW, the law in this case is the Treaty and the operative Articles 16 and 30.



P F Tinmore said:


> You post so much verbosity trying to pretzel this up. The basis of international law is that the people and their territory are not separated. Many other laws hinge on this basic principle.
> 
> The people who lived in Lebanon became citizens of Lebanon.
> 
> The people who lived in Syria became citizens if Syria.
> 
> The people who lived in Iraq became citizens of Iraq.
> 
> The people who lived in Jordan became citizens of Jordan.
> 
> The people who lived in Palestine became refugees.
> 
> Palestine is the odd man out.


*(COMMENT)*

The Palestinians became the citizens of the Government of Palestine _(which was under the Palestine Order in Council)_.

This is a "citizenship/nationality" issue, not a territorial issue.

The people were, in keeping the policy NOT creating stateless people, came under the care and protection of the Civilian Governments appointed by the Mandate Authority.   None of the self-governing countries you listed instantly became the self-governing.  They all went through the exact same type of procedure and all became self-governing institutions in the 1940's.  That is, all except the uncooperative Arab Palestinians.

◈  The Government of Lebanese became the Lebanese Republic on 22 November 1943 when it was released League of Nations Mandate under French administration.

◈  The Government of Syria became the Syrian Arab Republic on 17 April 1946 when it was released League of Nations Mandate under French administration.

◈  The Government of Iraq, became the Republic of Iraq when on 3 October 1932 when it was released from the League of Nations Mandate under British administration.

◈  The Government of Transjordan became the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan on 25 May 1946
when it was released from the League of Nations Mandate under British administration.

✧  A territorial portion of the Government of Palestine became the State of Israel on 14 May 1948 from League of Nations mandate under British administration.

✧  A territorial portion of the Government of Palestine known as the West Bank declined to participate in self-governing Institutions, declined to establish a an Arab State. -  It was subsequently occupied and administered by Jordan after 1948), being annexed by the Jordanian Parliament in 1950.​
I hope that in challenging your supposition that I was not too verbose.  The "Question of Palestine" is like trying to explain why the Sky is Blue to an inquisitive child.  And the reason the Universe created Hostile Arab Palestinian, is to intentionally phrase the key issues so as to require ingenuity in ascertaining its answer _(The Gordian Knot)_.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> It was not the "same" rights that were the problem. It was the superiority and exclusion of the Zionist settlers that was the problem.



It was, and is, Arab HOSTILITY that is the problem.  Proof pudding:  Arabs live in Israel.  No Jews live in Arab territories.  Its the Arab who are exclusionist -- not the Jewish people.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Bord
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are absolutely incorrect.  You are 0 for 6.  And, BTW, the law in this case is the Treaty and the operative Articles 16 and 30.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You post so much verbosity trying to pretzel this up. The basis of international law is that the people and their territory are not separated. Many other laws hinge on this basic principle.
> 
> The people who lived in Lebanon became citizens of Lebanon.
> 
> The people who lived in Syria became citizens if Syria.
> 
> The people who lived in Iraq became citizens of Iraq.
> 
> The people who lived in Jordan became citizens of Jordan.
> 
> The people who lived in Palestine became refugees.
> 
> Palestine is the odd man out.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians became the citizens of the Government of Palestine _(which was under the Palestine Order in Council)_.
> 
> This is a "citizenship/nationality" issue, not a territorial issue.
> 
> The people were, in keeping the policy NOT creating stateless people, came under the care and protection of the Civilian Governments appointed by the Mandate Authority.   None of the self-governing countries you listed instantly became the self-governing.  They all went through the exact same type of procedure and all became self-governing institutions in the 1940's.  That is, all except the uncooperative Arab Palestinians.
> 
> ◈  The Government of Lebanese became the Lebanese Republic on 22 November 1943 when it was released League of Nations Mandate under French administration.
> 
> ◈  The Government of Syria became the Syrian Arab Republic on 17 April 1946 when it was released League of Nations Mandate under French administration.
> 
> ◈  The Government of Iraq, became the Republic of Iraq when on 3 October 1932 when it was released from the League of Nations Mandate under British administration.
> 
> ◈  The Government of Transjordan became the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan on 25 May 1946
> when it was released from the League of Nations Mandate under British administration.
> 
> ✧  A territorial portion of the Government of Palestine became the State of Israel on 14 May 1948 from League of Nations mandate under British administration.
> 
> ✧  A territorial portion of the Government of Palestine known as the West Bank declined to participate in self-governing Institutions, declined to establish a an Arab State. -  It was subsequently occupied and administered by Jordan after 1948), being annexed by the Jordanian Parliament in 1950.​
> I hope that in challenging your supposition that I was not too verbose.  The "Question of Palestine" is like trying to explain why the Sky is Blue to an inquisitive child.  And the reason the Universe created Hostile Arab Palestinian, is to intentionally phrase the key issues so as to require ingenuity in ascertaining its answer _(The Gordian Knot)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Palestinians became the citizens of the Government of Palestine


The Mandate was not a political entity. It was a temporarily assigned administration. It had no sovereignty or territory and could have no citizens.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Bord
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are absolutely incorrect.  You are 0 for 6.  And, BTW, the law in this case is the Treaty and the operative Articles 16 and 30.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You post so much verbosity trying to pretzel this up. The basis of international law is that the people and their territory are not separated. Many other laws hinge on this basic principle.
> 
> The people who lived in Lebanon became citizens of Lebanon.
> 
> The people who lived in Syria became citizens if Syria.
> 
> The people who lived in Iraq became citizens of Iraq.
> 
> The people who lived in Jordan became citizens of Jordan.
> 
> The people who lived in Palestine became refugees.
> 
> Palestine is the odd man out.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians became the citizens of the Government of Palestine _(which was under the Palestine Order in Council)_.
> 
> This is a "citizenship/nationality" issue, not a territorial issue.
> 
> The people were, in keeping the policy NOT creating stateless people, came under the care and protection of the Civilian Governments appointed by the Mandate Authority.   None of the self-governing countries you listed instantly became the self-governing.  They all went through the exact same type of procedure and all became self-governing institutions in the 1940's.  That is, all except the uncooperative Arab Palestinians.
> 
> ◈  The Government of Lebanese became the Lebanese Republic on 22 November 1943 when it was released League of Nations Mandate under French administration.
> 
> ◈  The Government of Syria became the Syrian Arab Republic on 17 April 1946 when it was released League of Nations Mandate under French administration.
> 
> ◈  The Government of Iraq, became the Republic of Iraq when on 3 October 1932 when it was released from the League of Nations Mandate under British administration.
> 
> ◈  The Government of Transjordan became the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan on 25 May 1946
> when it was released from the League of Nations Mandate under British administration.
> 
> ✧  A territorial portion of the Government of Palestine became the State of Israel on 14 May 1948 from League of Nations mandate under British administration.
> 
> ✧  A territorial portion of the Government of Palestine known as the West Bank declined to participate in self-governing Institutions, declined to establish a an Arab State. -  It was subsequently occupied and administered by Jordan after 1948), being annexed by the Jordanian Parliament in 1950.​
> I hope that in challenging your supposition that I was not too verbose.  The "Question of Palestine" is like trying to explain why the Sky is Blue to an inquisitive child.  And the reason the Universe created Hostile Arab Palestinian, is to intentionally phrase the key issues so as to require ingenuity in ascertaining its answer _(The Gordian Knot)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians became the citizens of the Government of Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Mandate was not a political entity. It was a temporarily assigned administration. It had no sovereignty or territory and could have no citizens.
Click to expand...


You are not paying attention to Rocco's post.  The residents came under the care and responsibility of the Governments of the various territories for the space of time between Turkey ceding the territories and the various State's independence and sovereignty.  That space of time was to allow those territories to develop self-governing institutions.  Once AGAIN, no one is claiming that the Mandate had sovereignty or that the British or France claimed territory for themselves.  Ceding a territory by one State DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY create a new State in that territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Bord
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are absolutely incorrect.  You are 0 for 6.  And, BTW, the law in this case is the Treaty and the operative Articles 16 and 30.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You post so much verbosity trying to pretzel this up. The basis of international law is that the people and their territory are not separated. Many other laws hinge on this basic principle.
> 
> The people who lived in Lebanon became citizens of Lebanon.
> 
> The people who lived in Syria became citizens if Syria.
> 
> The people who lived in Iraq became citizens of Iraq.
> 
> The people who lived in Jordan became citizens of Jordan.
> 
> The people who lived in Palestine became refugees.
> 
> Palestine is the odd man out.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians became the citizens of the Government of Palestine _(which was under the Palestine Order in Council)_.
> 
> This is a "citizenship/nationality" issue, not a territorial issue.
> 
> The people were, in keeping the policy NOT creating stateless people, came under the care and protection of the Civilian Governments appointed by the Mandate Authority.   None of the self-governing countries you listed instantly became the self-governing.  They all went through the exact same type of procedure and all became self-governing institutions in the 1940's.  That is, all except the uncooperative Arab Palestinians.
> 
> ◈  The Government of Lebanese became the Lebanese Republic on 22 November 1943 when it was released League of Nations Mandate under French administration.
> 
> ◈  The Government of Syria became the Syrian Arab Republic on 17 April 1946 when it was released League of Nations Mandate under French administration.
> 
> ◈  The Government of Iraq, became the Republic of Iraq when on 3 October 1932 when it was released from the League of Nations Mandate under British administration.
> 
> ◈  The Government of Transjordan became the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan on 25 May 1946
> when it was released from the League of Nations Mandate under British administration.
> 
> ✧  A territorial portion of the Government of Palestine became the State of Israel on 14 May 1948 from League of Nations mandate under British administration.
> 
> ✧  A territorial portion of the Government of Palestine known as the West Bank declined to participate in self-governing Institutions, declined to establish a an Arab State. -  It was subsequently occupied and administered by Jordan after 1948), being annexed by the Jordanian Parliament in 1950.​
> I hope that in challenging your supposition that I was not too verbose.  The "Question of Palestine" is like trying to explain why the Sky is Blue to an inquisitive child.  And the reason the Universe created Hostile Arab Palestinian, is to intentionally phrase the key issues so as to require ingenuity in ascertaining its answer _(The Gordian Knot)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians became the citizens of the Government of Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Mandate was not a political entity. It was a temporarily assigned administration. It had no sovereignty or territory and could have no citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are not paying attention to Rocco's post.  The residents came under the care and responsibility of the Governments of the various territories for the space of time between Turkey ceding the territories and the various State's independence and sovereignty.  That space of time was to allow those territories to develop self-governing institutions.  Once AGAIN, no one is claiming that the Mandate had sovereignty or that the British or France claimed territory for themselves.  Ceding a territory by one State DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY create a new State in that territory.
Click to expand...

They were created as successor states.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Bord
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are absolutely incorrect.  You are 0 for 6.  And, BTW, the law in this case is the Treaty and the operative Articles 16 and 30.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You post so much verbosity trying to pretzel this up. The basis of international law is that the people and their territory are not separated. Many other laws hinge on this basic principle.
> 
> The people who lived in Lebanon became citizens of Lebanon.
> 
> The people who lived in Syria became citizens if Syria.
> 
> The people who lived in Iraq became citizens of Iraq.
> 
> The people who lived in Jordan became citizens of Jordan.
> 
> The people who lived in Palestine became refugees.
> 
> Palestine is the odd man out.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians became the citizens of the Government of Palestine _(which was under the Palestine Order in Council)_.
> 
> This is a "citizenship/nationality" issue, not a territorial issue.
> 
> The people were, in keeping the policy NOT creating stateless people, came under the care and protection of the Civilian Governments appointed by the Mandate Authority.   None of the self-governing countries you listed instantly became the self-governing.  They all went through the exact same type of procedure and all became self-governing institutions in the 1940's.  That is, all except the uncooperative Arab Palestinians.
> 
> ◈  The Government of Lebanese became the Lebanese Republic on 22 November 1943 when it was released League of Nations Mandate under French administration.
> 
> ◈  The Government of Syria became the Syrian Arab Republic on 17 April 1946 when it was released League of Nations Mandate under French administration.
> 
> ◈  The Government of Iraq, became the Republic of Iraq when on 3 October 1932 when it was released from the League of Nations Mandate under British administration.
> 
> ◈  The Government of Transjordan became the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan on 25 May 1946
> when it was released from the League of Nations Mandate under British administration.
> 
> ✧  A territorial portion of the Government of Palestine became the State of Israel on 14 May 1948 from League of Nations mandate under British administration.
> 
> ✧  A territorial portion of the Government of Palestine known as the West Bank declined to participate in self-governing Institutions, declined to establish a an Arab State. -  It was subsequently occupied and administered by Jordan after 1948), being annexed by the Jordanian Parliament in 1950.​
> I hope that in challenging your supposition that I was not too verbose.  The "Question of Palestine" is like trying to explain why the Sky is Blue to an inquisitive child.  And the reason the Universe created Hostile Arab Palestinian, is to intentionally phrase the key issues so as to require ingenuity in ascertaining its answer _(The Gordian Knot)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians became the citizens of the Government of Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Mandate was not a political entity. It was a temporarily assigned administration. It had no sovereignty or territory and could have no citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are not paying attention to Rocco's post.  The residents came under the care and responsibility of the Governments of the various territories for the space of time between Turkey ceding the territories and the various State's independence and sovereignty.  That space of time was to allow those territories to develop self-governing institutions.  Once AGAIN, no one is claiming that the Mandate had sovereignty or that the British or France claimed territory for themselves.  Ceding a territory by one State DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY create a new State in that territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were created as successor states.
Click to expand...


How is it that, when the above has been explained to you dozens of times, you’re still completely befuddled?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> They were created as successor states.



Okaaaaaay.  We agree.  When and through which process did they become successor States?  Ceding territory does not automatically create a new State in the abandoned territory.  There is a process.  What is it?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Comprehensive Report Debunks 'Peaceful' Gaza Protests


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  Sixties Fan, et al,

Yes,,,  I've seen this document (Report): 

✦  *NGO Monitor Submission to the United Nations Human Rights Council*
*Commission of Inquiry on the*
*2018 Protests in the “Occupied Palestinian Territory*  ✦​If your read it, you'll  find some of the footnotes very interesting.


Sixties Fan said:


> Comprehensive Report Debunks 'Peaceful' Gaza Protests


*(COMMENT)*

I do not think this report will make a dent in the bias wall built around the UN.    The report will be discredited because the UNHCR CIO - Gaza Protests; the narrative of which cannot be accepted if it is found to negatively reflect on the credibility of the Commission...  AND, because the CIO will dismiss the NGO Monitor Report as biased against the HAMAS; with nearly the entire Staff of the NGO Monitor being Jewish.

I also think that the NGO Monitor (Jerusalem), being in close proximity of some very nasty Arab Palestinians, have placed themselves in jeopardy.

*(SUPPLEMENTAL)*




The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center published (06/08/2018 Online) on the
*"The “Return March,” Aug 3, 2018."*

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Bord
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are absolutely incorrect.  You are 0 for 6.  And, BTW, the law in this case is the Treaty and the operative Articles 16 and 30.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You post so much verbosity trying to pretzel this up. The basis of international law is that the people and their territory are not separated. Many other laws hinge on this basic principle.
> 
> The people who lived in Lebanon became citizens of Lebanon.
> 
> The people who lived in Syria became citizens if Syria.
> 
> The people who lived in Iraq became citizens of Iraq.
> 
> The people who lived in Jordan became citizens of Jordan.
> 
> The people who lived in Palestine became refugees.
> 
> Palestine is the odd man out.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians became the citizens of the Government of Palestine _(which was under the Palestine Order in Council)_.
> 
> This is a "citizenship/nationality" issue, not a territorial issue.
> 
> The people were, in keeping the policy NOT creating stateless people, came under the care and protection of the Civilian Governments appointed by the Mandate Authority.   None of the self-governing countries you listed instantly became the self-governing.  They all went through the exact same type of procedure and all became self-governing institutions in the 1940's.  That is, all except the uncooperative Arab Palestinians.
> 
> ◈  The Government of Lebanese became the Lebanese Republic on 22 November 1943 when it was released League of Nations Mandate under French administration.
> 
> ◈  The Government of Syria became the Syrian Arab Republic on 17 April 1946 when it was released League of Nations Mandate under French administration.
> 
> ◈  The Government of Iraq, became the Republic of Iraq when on 3 October 1932 when it was released from the League of Nations Mandate under British administration.
> 
> ◈  The Government of Transjordan became the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan on 25 May 1946
> when it was released from the League of Nations Mandate under British administration.
> 
> ✧  A territorial portion of the Government of Palestine became the State of Israel on 14 May 1948 from League of Nations mandate under British administration.
> 
> ✧  A territorial portion of the Government of Palestine known as the West Bank declined to participate in self-governing Institutions, declined to establish a an Arab State. -  It was subsequently occupied and administered by Jordan after 1948), being annexed by the Jordanian Parliament in 1950.​
> I hope that in challenging your supposition that I was not too verbose.  The "Question of Palestine" is like trying to explain why the Sky is Blue to an inquisitive child.  And the reason the Universe created Hostile Arab Palestinian, is to intentionally phrase the key issues so as to require ingenuity in ascertaining its answer _(The Gordian Knot)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians became the citizens of the Government of Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Mandate was not a political entity. It was a temporarily assigned administration. It had no sovereignty or territory and could have no citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are not paying attention to Rocco's post.  The residents came under the care and responsibility of the Governments of the various territories for the space of time between Turkey ceding the territories and the various State's independence and sovereignty.  That space of time was to allow those territories to develop self-governing institutions.  Once AGAIN, no one is claiming that the Mandate had sovereignty or that the British or France claimed territory for themselves.  Ceding a territory by one State DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY create a new State in that territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were created as successor states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is it that, when the above has been explained to you dozens of times, you’re still completely befuddled?
Click to expand...


Because that’s how Tinmore is. No matter how many times you put the truth right in his face, he continues to argue .


----------



## toastman

Notice how Rocco backs up all his statements with valid links , while all Tinmore could muster up is : “I’m right and you’re wrong”. 
Lol


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Bord
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are absolutely incorrect.  You are 0 for 6.  And, BTW, the law in this case is the Treaty and the operative Articles 16 and 30.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians became the citizens of the Government of Palestine _(which was under the Palestine Order in Council)_.
> 
> This is a "citizenship/nationality" issue, not a territorial issue.
> 
> The people were, in keeping the policy NOT creating stateless people, came under the care and protection of the Civilian Governments appointed by the Mandate Authority.   None of the self-governing countries you listed instantly became the self-governing.  They all went through the exact same type of procedure and all became self-governing institutions in the 1940's.  That is, all except the uncooperative Arab Palestinians.
> 
> ◈  The Government of Lebanese became the Lebanese Republic on 22 November 1943 when it was released League of Nations Mandate under French administration.
> 
> ◈  The Government of Syria became the Syrian Arab Republic on 17 April 1946 when it was released League of Nations Mandate under French administration.
> 
> ◈  The Government of Iraq, became the Republic of Iraq when on 3 October 1932 when it was released from the League of Nations Mandate under British administration.
> 
> ◈  The Government of Transjordan became the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan on 25 May 1946
> when it was released from the League of Nations Mandate under British administration.
> 
> ✧  A territorial portion of the Government of Palestine became the State of Israel on 14 May 1948 from League of Nations mandate under British administration.
> 
> ✧  A territorial portion of the Government of Palestine known as the West Bank declined to participate in self-governing Institutions, declined to establish a an Arab State. -  It was subsequently occupied and administered by Jordan after 1948), being annexed by the Jordanian Parliament in 1950.​
> I hope that in challenging your supposition that I was not too verbose.  The "Question of Palestine" is like trying to explain why the Sky is Blue to an inquisitive child.  And the reason the Universe created Hostile Arab Palestinian, is to intentionally phrase the key issues so as to require ingenuity in ascertaining its answer _(The Gordian Knot)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians became the citizens of the Government of Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Mandate was not a political entity. It was a temporarily assigned administration. It had no sovereignty or territory and could have no citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are not paying attention to Rocco's post.  The residents came under the care and responsibility of the Governments of the various territories for the space of time between Turkey ceding the territories and the various State's independence and sovereignty.  That space of time was to allow those territories to develop self-governing institutions.  Once AGAIN, no one is claiming that the Mandate had sovereignty or that the British or France claimed territory for themselves.  Ceding a territory by one State DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY create a new State in that territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were created as successor states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is it that, when the above has been explained to you dozens of times, you’re still completely befuddled?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because that’s how Tinmore is. No matter how many times you put the truth right in his face, he continues to argue .
Click to expand...

When I post:

The people have the right to self determination *without external interference.*​
Rocco responds with a whole page of external interference.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Mandate was not a political entity. It was a temporarily assigned administration. It had no sovereignty or territory and could have no citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are not paying attention to Rocco's post.  The residents came under the care and responsibility of the Governments of the various territories for the space of time between Turkey ceding the territories and the various State's independence and sovereignty.  That space of time was to allow those territories to develop self-governing institutions.  Once AGAIN, no one is claiming that the Mandate had sovereignty or that the British or France claimed territory for themselves.  Ceding a territory by one State DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY create a new State in that territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were created as successor states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is it that, when the above has been explained to you dozens of times, you’re still completely befuddled?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because that’s how Tinmore is. No matter how many times you put the truth right in his face, he continues to argue .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When I post:
> 
> The people have the right to self determination *without external interference.*​
> Rocco responds with a whole page of external interference.
Click to expand...


You don’t understand the terms used.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are not paying attention to Rocco's post.  The residents came under the care and responsibility of the Governments of the various territories for the space of time between Turkey ceding the territories and the various State's independence and sovereignty.  That space of time was to allow those territories to develop self-governing institutions.  Once AGAIN, no one is claiming that the Mandate had sovereignty or that the British or France claimed territory for themselves.  Ceding a territory by one State DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY create a new State in that territory.
> 
> 
> 
> They were created as successor states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is it that, when the above has been explained to you dozens of times, you’re still completely befuddled?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because that’s how Tinmore is. No matter how many times you put the truth right in his face, he continues to argue .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When I post:
> 
> The people have the right to self determination *without external interference.*​
> Rocco responds with a whole page of external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don’t understand the terms used.
Click to expand...


He posts stating the U.N. had no right to create the Srare of Israel and there isn’t a “ law” that says there has to be two states.   When asked about Abbas “ no Israelis allowed” or their policy that the Jews are Not entitled to even go to the Western Wall there is no response. Talk about being desperate.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I'm at a loss for words.



P F Tinmore said:


> When I post:
> 
> The people have the right to self determination *without external interference.*​
> Rocco responds with a whole page of external interference.


*(COMMENT)*

If it was as simple as you make it out so be, 

 When the decisions were made a century ago, all that was discussed was found in League of Nations (LoN) Covenant:



			
				Article 10 (LoN) Covenant said:
			
		

> The Members of the League undertake to respect and preserve as against *external aggression* the *territorial integrity* and *existing political independence* of all Members of the League. In case of any such aggression or in case of any threat or danger of such aggression the Council shall advise upon the means by which this obligation shall be fulfilled.



It should be noted that this is very similar - but not quite the same to the words in the UN Charter:



			
				Article 2(4) said:
			
		

> All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or *use of force* against the *territorial integrity* or *political independence* of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.



It should be noted that the Allied Powers _(having been appointed with the rights and title thru Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne)_ were obstructed by the Arab League _(formerly the inhabitance of the Enemy Occupied Territory (EOT) in the post WWI era)_ in the establishment of self-governing institution; a necessary first step towards independence.  

The inhabitance of the EOT were not a party to the Peace Treaty process.  The inhabitance of the EOT were citizens of the Ottoman Empire _(outside the Turkish Republic)_ when it released its hold on the sovereignty to the territory.   The Treaty determined the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.

Anything the Allied Powers did in the interest of those territories _(Palestine being a relatively small piece in comparison to the other pieces that needed to be dealt with)_ was not an external power.  They were the legitimate holders of the "rights and title" to the territory.   And without regard to the Arab Palestinian inhabitance, the fate of the territory rested in the hands of the Allied Powers.

To this day, the Arab Palestinians have yet to make a claim and then explain the mechanism through which any portion of the "rights and title" passed from the Allied Powers to the Arab Palestinians.  Unlike every single country adjacent to the territory in question, the Arab Palestinian cannot point to a date in which they became independent from League of Nations Mandate under British administration, or the International Trusteeship System (Chapter XII of the UN Charter).

Needless to say, it is not as simple as you make it out to be.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm at a loss for words.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I post:
> 
> The people have the right to self determination *without external interference.*​
> Rocco responds with a whole page of external interference.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If it was as simple as you make it out so be,
> 
> When the decisions were made a century ago, all that was discussed was found in League of Nations (LoN) Covenant:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 10 (LoN) Covenant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Members of the League undertake to respect and preserve as against *external aggression* the *territorial integrity* and *existing political independence* of all Members of the League. In case of any such aggression or in case of any threat or danger of such aggression the Council shall advise upon the means by which this obligation shall be fulfilled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It should be noted that this is very similar - but not quite the same to the words in the UN Charter:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 2(4) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or *use of force* against the *territorial integrity* or *political independence* of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It should be noted that the Allied Powers _(having been appointed with the rights and title thru Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne)_ were obstructed by the Arab League _(formerly the inhabitance of the Enemy Occupied Territory (EOT) in the post WWI era)_ in the establishment of self-governing institution; a necessary first step towards independence.
> 
> The inhabitance of the EOT were not a party to the Peace Treaty process.  The inhabitance of the EOT were citizens of the Ottoman Empire _(outside the Turkish Republic)_ when it released its hold on the sovereignty to the territory.   The Treaty determined the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> Anything the Allied Powers did in the interest of those territories _(Palestine being a relatively small piece in comparison to the other pieces that needed to be dealt with)_ was not an external power.  They were the legitimate holders of the "rights and title" to the territory.   And without regard to the Arab Palestinian inhabitance, the fate of the territory rested in the hands of the Allied Powers.
> 
> To this day, the Arab Palestinians have yet to make a claim and then explain the mechanism through which any portion of the "rights and title" passed from the Allied Powers to the Arab Palestinians.  Unlike every single country adjacent to the territory in question, the Arab Palestinian cannot point to a date in which they became independent from League of Nations Mandate under British administration, or the International Trusteeship System (Chapter XII of the UN Charter).
> 
> Needless to say, it is not as simple as you make it out to be.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I rest my case.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm at a loss for words.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I post:
> 
> The people have the right to self determination *without external interference.*​
> Rocco responds with a whole page of external interference.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If it was as simple as you make it out so be,
> 
> When the decisions were made a century ago, all that was discussed was found in League of Nations (LoN) Covenant:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 10 (LoN) Covenant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Members of the League undertake to respect and preserve as against *external aggression* the *territorial integrity* and *existing political independence* of all Members of the League. In case of any such aggression or in case of any threat or danger of such aggression the Council shall advise upon the means by which this obligation shall be fulfilled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It should be noted that this is very similar - but not quite the same to the words in the UN Charter:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 2(4) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or *use of force* against the *territorial integrity* or *political independence* of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It should be noted that the Allied Powers _(having been appointed with the rights and title thru Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne)_ were obstructed by the Arab League _(formerly the inhabitance of the Enemy Occupied Territory (EOT) in the post WWI era)_ in the establishment of self-governing institution; a necessary first step towards independence.
> 
> The inhabitance of the EOT were not a party to the Peace Treaty process.  The inhabitance of the EOT were citizens of the Ottoman Empire _(outside the Turkish Republic)_ when it released its hold on the sovereignty to the territory.   The Treaty determined the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> Anything the Allied Powers did in the interest of those territories _(Palestine being a relatively small piece in comparison to the other pieces that needed to be dealt with)_ was not an external power.  They were the legitimate holders of the "rights and title" to the territory.   And without regard to the Arab Palestinian inhabitance, the fate of the territory rested in the hands of the Allied Powers.
> 
> To this day, the Arab Palestinians have yet to make a claim and then explain the mechanism through which any portion of the "rights and title" passed from the Allied Powers to the Arab Palestinians.  Unlike every single country adjacent to the territory in question, the Arab Palestinian cannot point to a date in which they became independent from League of Nations Mandate under British administration, or the International Trusteeship System (Chapter XII of the UN Charter).
> 
> Needless to say, it is not as simple as you make it out to be.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I rest my case.
Click to expand...


Good choice as you never presented a coherent, defendable case to begin with.


----------



## toastman

Tinmore, you have the right to disagree with Rocco.
But for Christ’s sake, the very least you can do is present a valid argument backed up by valid links!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm at a loss for words.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I post:
> 
> The people have the right to self determination *without external interference.*​
> Rocco responds with a whole page of external interference.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If it was as simple as you make it out so be,
> 
> When the decisions were made a century ago, all that was discussed was found in League of Nations (LoN) Covenant:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 10 (LoN) Covenant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Members of the League undertake to respect and preserve as against *external aggression* the *territorial integrity* and *existing political independence* of all Members of the League. In case of any such aggression or in case of any threat or danger of such aggression the Council shall advise upon the means by which this obligation shall be fulfilled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It should be noted that this is very similar - but not quite the same to the words in the UN Charter:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 2(4) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or *use of force* against the *territorial integrity* or *political independence* of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It should be noted that the Allied Powers _(having been appointed with the rights and title thru Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne)_ were obstructed by the Arab League _(formerly the inhabitance of the Enemy Occupied Territory (EOT) in the post WWI era)_ in the establishment of self-governing institution; a necessary first step towards independence.
> 
> The inhabitance of the EOT were not a party to the Peace Treaty process.  The inhabitance of the EOT were citizens of the Ottoman Empire _(outside the Turkish Republic)_ when it released its hold on the sovereignty to the territory.   The Treaty determined the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> Anything the Allied Powers did in the interest of those territories _(Palestine being a relatively small piece in comparison to the other pieces that needed to be dealt with)_ was not an external power.  They were the legitimate holders of the "rights and title" to the territory.   And without regard to the Arab Palestinian inhabitance, the fate of the territory rested in the hands of the Allied Powers.
> 
> To this day, the Arab Palestinians have yet to make a claim and then explain the mechanism through which any portion of the "rights and title" passed from the Allied Powers to the Arab Palestinians.  Unlike every single country adjacent to the territory in question, the Arab Palestinian cannot point to a date in which they became independent from League of Nations Mandate under British administration, or the International Trusteeship System (Chapter XII of the UN Charter).
> 
> Needless to say, it is not as simple as you make it out to be.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I rest my case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good choice as you never presented a coherent, defendable case to begin with.
Click to expand...

Sorry it went over your head.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm at a loss for words.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I post:
> 
> The people have the right to self determination *without external interference.*​
> Rocco responds with a whole page of external interference.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If it was as simple as you make it out so be,
> 
> When the decisions were made a century ago, all that was discussed was found in League of Nations (LoN) Covenant:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 10 (LoN) Covenant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Members of the League undertake to respect and preserve as against *external aggression* the *territorial integrity* and *existing political independence* of all Members of the League. In case of any such aggression or in case of any threat or danger of such aggression the Council shall advise upon the means by which this obligation shall be fulfilled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It should be noted that this is very similar - but not quite the same to the words in the UN Charter:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 2(4) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or *use of force* against the *territorial integrity* or *political independence* of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It should be noted that the Allied Powers _(having been appointed with the rights and title thru Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne)_ were obstructed by the Arab League _(formerly the inhabitance of the Enemy Occupied Territory (EOT) in the post WWI era)_ in the establishment of self-governing institution; a necessary first step towards independence.
> 
> The inhabitance of the EOT were not a party to the Peace Treaty process.  The inhabitance of the EOT were citizens of the Ottoman Empire _(outside the Turkish Republic)_ when it released its hold on the sovereignty to the territory.   The Treaty determined the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> Anything the Allied Powers did in the interest of those territories _(Palestine being a relatively small piece in comparison to the other pieces that needed to be dealt with)_ was not an external power.  They were the legitimate holders of the "rights and title" to the territory.   And without regard to the Arab Palestinian inhabitance, the fate of the territory rested in the hands of the Allied Powers.
> 
> To this day, the Arab Palestinians have yet to make a claim and then explain the mechanism through which any portion of the "rights and title" passed from the Allied Powers to the Arab Palestinians.  Unlike every single country adjacent to the territory in question, the Arab Palestinian cannot point to a date in which they became independent from League of Nations Mandate under British administration, or the International Trusteeship System (Chapter XII of the UN Charter).
> 
> Needless to say, it is not as simple as you make it out to be.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Treaty determined the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.


And who did the LoN Covenant say were the Parties concerned?

The inhabitants, i.e. the Palestinians.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm at a loss for words.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I post:
> 
> The people have the right to self determination *without external interference.*​
> Rocco responds with a whole page of external interference.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If it was as simple as you make it out so be,
> 
> When the decisions were made a century ago, all that was discussed was found in League of Nations (LoN) Covenant:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 10 (LoN) Covenant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Members of the League undertake to respect and preserve as against *external aggression* the *territorial integrity* and *existing political independence* of all Members of the League. In case of any such aggression or in case of any threat or danger of such aggression the Council shall advise upon the means by which this obligation shall be fulfilled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It should be noted that this is very similar - but not quite the same to the words in the UN Charter:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 2(4) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or *use of force* against the *territorial integrity* or *political independence* of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It should be noted that the Allied Powers _(having been appointed with the rights and title thru Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne)_ were obstructed by the Arab League _(formerly the inhabitance of the Enemy Occupied Territory (EOT) in the post WWI era)_ in the establishment of self-governing institution; a necessary first step towards independence.
> 
> The inhabitance of the EOT were not a party to the Peace Treaty process.  The inhabitance of the EOT were citizens of the Ottoman Empire _(outside the Turkish Republic)_ when it released its hold on the sovereignty to the territory.   The Treaty determined the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> Anything the Allied Powers did in the interest of those territories _(Palestine being a relatively small piece in comparison to the other pieces that needed to be dealt with)_ was not an external power.  They were the legitimate holders of the "rights and title" to the territory.   And without regard to the Arab Palestinian inhabitance, the fate of the territory rested in the hands of the Allied Powers.
> 
> To this day, the Arab Palestinians have yet to make a claim and then explain the mechanism through which any portion of the "rights and title" passed from the Allied Powers to the Arab Palestinians.  Unlike every single country adjacent to the territory in question, the Arab Palestinian cannot point to a date in which they became independent from League of Nations Mandate under British administration, or the International Trusteeship System (Chapter XII of the UN Charter).
> 
> Needless to say, it is not as simple as you make it out to be.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Treaty determined the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And who did the LoN Covenant say were the Parties concerned?
> 
> The inhabitants, i.e. the Palestinians.
Click to expand...


Your point? I’m guessing you don’t have one.

I’m starting to lose count over the amount of times Rocco has destroyed your arguments.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm at a loss for words.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I post:
> 
> The people have the right to self determination *without external interference.*​
> Rocco responds with a whole page of external interference.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If it was as simple as you make it out so be,
> 
> When the decisions were made a century ago, all that was discussed was found in League of Nations (LoN) Covenant:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 10 (LoN) Covenant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Members of the League undertake to respect and preserve as against *external aggression* the *territorial integrity* and *existing political independence* of all Members of the League. In case of any such aggression or in case of any threat or danger of such aggression the Council shall advise upon the means by which this obligation shall be fulfilled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It should be noted that this is very similar - but not quite the same to the words in the UN Charter:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 2(4) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or *use of force* against the *territorial integrity* or *political independence* of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It should be noted that the Allied Powers _(having been appointed with the rights and title thru Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne)_ were obstructed by the Arab League _(formerly the inhabitance of the Enemy Occupied Territory (EOT) in the post WWI era)_ in the establishment of self-governing institution; a necessary first step towards independence.
> 
> The inhabitance of the EOT were not a party to the Peace Treaty process.  The inhabitance of the EOT were citizens of the Ottoman Empire _(outside the Turkish Republic)_ when it released its hold on the sovereignty to the territory.   The Treaty determined the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> Anything the Allied Powers did in the interest of those territories _(Palestine being a relatively small piece in comparison to the other pieces that needed to be dealt with)_ was not an external power.  They were the legitimate holders of the "rights and title" to the territory.   And without regard to the Arab Palestinian inhabitance, the fate of the territory rested in the hands of the Allied Powers.
> 
> To this day, the Arab Palestinians have yet to make a claim and then explain the mechanism through which any portion of the "rights and title" passed from the Allied Powers to the Arab Palestinians.  Unlike every single country adjacent to the territory in question, the Arab Palestinian cannot point to a date in which they became independent from League of Nations Mandate under British administration, or the International Trusteeship System (Chapter XII of the UN Charter).
> 
> Needless to say, it is not as simple as you make it out to be.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Treaty determined the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And who did the LoN Covenant say were the Parties concerned?
> 
> The inhabitants, i.e. the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your point? I’m guessing you don’t have one.
> 
> I’m starting to lose count over the amount of times Rocco has destroyed your arguments.
Click to expand...

Try zero.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm at a loss for words.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I post:
> 
> The people have the right to self determination *without external interference.*​
> Rocco responds with a whole page of external interference.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If it was as simple as you make it out so be,
> 
> When the decisions were made a century ago, all that was discussed was found in League of Nations (LoN) Covenant:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 10 (LoN) Covenant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Members of the League undertake to respect and preserve as against *external aggression* the *territorial integrity* and *existing political independence* of all Members of the League. In case of any such aggression or in case of any threat or danger of such aggression the Council shall advise upon the means by which this obligation shall be fulfilled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It should be noted that this is very similar - but not quite the same to the words in the UN Charter:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 2(4) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or *use of force* against the *territorial integrity* or *political independence* of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It should be noted that the Allied Powers _(having been appointed with the rights and title thru Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne)_ were obstructed by the Arab League _(formerly the inhabitance of the Enemy Occupied Territory (EOT) in the post WWI era)_ in the establishment of self-governing institution; a necessary first step towards independence.
> 
> The inhabitance of the EOT were not a party to the Peace Treaty process.  The inhabitance of the EOT were citizens of the Ottoman Empire _(outside the Turkish Republic)_ when it released its hold on the sovereignty to the territory.   The Treaty determined the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> Anything the Allied Powers did in the interest of those territories _(Palestine being a relatively small piece in comparison to the other pieces that needed to be dealt with)_ was not an external power.  They were the legitimate holders of the "rights and title" to the territory.   And without regard to the Arab Palestinian inhabitance, the fate of the territory rested in the hands of the Allied Powers.
> 
> To this day, the Arab Palestinians have yet to make a claim and then explain the mechanism through which any portion of the "rights and title" passed from the Allied Powers to the Arab Palestinians.  Unlike every single country adjacent to the territory in question, the Arab Palestinian cannot point to a date in which they became independent from League of Nations Mandate under British administration, or the International Trusteeship System (Chapter XII of the UN Charter).
> 
> Needless to say, it is not as simple as you make it out to be.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I rest my case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good choice as you never presented a coherent, defendable case to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry it went over your head.
Click to expand...


You confuse mindlessly cutting nd pasting the same few snippets with a coherent, defendable argument.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm at a loss for words.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I post:
> 
> The people have the right to self determination *without external interference.*​
> Rocco responds with a whole page of external interference.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If it was as simple as you make it out so be,
> 
> When the decisions were made a century ago, all that was discussed was found in League of Nations (LoN) Covenant:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 10 (LoN) Covenant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Members of the League undertake to respect and preserve as against *external aggression* the *territorial integrity* and *existing political independence* of all Members of the League. In case of any such aggression or in case of any threat or danger of such aggression the Council shall advise upon the means by which this obligation shall be fulfilled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It should be noted that this is very similar - but not quite the same to the words in the UN Charter:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 2(4) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or *use of force* against the *territorial integrity* or *political independence* of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It should be noted that the Allied Powers _(having been appointed with the rights and title thru Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne)_ were obstructed by the Arab League _(formerly the inhabitance of the Enemy Occupied Territory (EOT) in the post WWI era)_ in the establishment of self-governing institution; a necessary first step towards independence.
> 
> The inhabitance of the EOT were not a party to the Peace Treaty process.  The inhabitance of the EOT were citizens of the Ottoman Empire _(outside the Turkish Republic)_ when it released its hold on the sovereignty to the territory.   The Treaty determined the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> Anything the Allied Powers did in the interest of those territories _(Palestine being a relatively small piece in comparison to the other pieces that needed to be dealt with)_ was not an external power.  They were the legitimate holders of the "rights and title" to the territory.   And without regard to the Arab Palestinian inhabitance, the fate of the territory rested in the hands of the Allied Powers.
> 
> To this day, the Arab Palestinians have yet to make a claim and then explain the mechanism through which any portion of the "rights and title" passed from the Allied Powers to the Arab Palestinians.  Unlike every single country adjacent to the territory in question, the Arab Palestinian cannot point to a date in which they became independent from League of Nations Mandate under British administration, or the International Trusteeship System (Chapter XII of the UN Charter).
> 
> Needless to say, it is not as simple as you make it out to be.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Treaty determined the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And who did the LoN Covenant say were the Parties concerned?
> 
> The inhabitants, i.e. the Palestinians.
Click to expand...


You’re still proceeding on a false premise.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm at a loss for words.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I post:
> 
> The people have the right to self determination *without external interference.*​
> Rocco responds with a whole page of external interference.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If it was as simple as you make it out so be,
> 
> When the decisions were made a century ago, all that was discussed was found in League of Nations (LoN) Covenant:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 10 (LoN) Covenant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Members of the League undertake to respect and preserve as against *external aggression* the *territorial integrity* and *existing political independence* of all Members of the League. In case of any such aggression or in case of any threat or danger of such aggression the Council shall advise upon the means by which this obligation shall be fulfilled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It should be noted that this is very similar - but not quite the same to the words in the UN Charter:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 2(4) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or *use of force* against the *territorial integrity* or *political independence* of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It should be noted that the Allied Powers _(having been appointed with the rights and title thru Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne)_ were obstructed by the Arab League _(formerly the inhabitance of the Enemy Occupied Territory (EOT) in the post WWI era)_ in the establishment of self-governing institution; a necessary first step towards independence.
> 
> The inhabitance of the EOT were not a party to the Peace Treaty process.  The inhabitance of the EOT were citizens of the Ottoman Empire _(outside the Turkish Republic)_ when it released its hold on the sovereignty to the territory.   The Treaty determined the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> Anything the Allied Powers did in the interest of those territories _(Palestine being a relatively small piece in comparison to the other pieces that needed to be dealt with)_ was not an external power.  They were the legitimate holders of the "rights and title" to the territory.   And without regard to the Arab Palestinian inhabitance, the fate of the territory rested in the hands of the Allied Powers.
> 
> To this day, the Arab Palestinians have yet to make a claim and then explain the mechanism through which any portion of the "rights and title" passed from the Allied Powers to the Arab Palestinians.  Unlike every single country adjacent to the territory in question, the Arab Palestinian cannot point to a date in which they became independent from League of Nations Mandate under British administration, or the International Trusteeship System (Chapter XII of the UN Charter).
> 
> Needless to say, it is not as simple as you make it out to be.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Treaty determined the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And who did the LoN Covenant say were the Parties concerned?
> 
> The inhabitants, i.e. the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re still proceeding on a false premise.
Click to expand...

Look it up.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

OH now you are really reaching.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm at a loss for words.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I post:
> 
> The people have the right to self determination *without external interference.*​
> Rocco responds with a whole page of external interference.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If it was as simple as you make it out so be,
> 
> When the decisions were made a century ago, all that was discussed was found in League of Nations (LoN) Covenant:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 10 (LoN) Covenant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Members of the League undertake to respect and preserve as against *external aggression* the *territorial integrity* and *existing political independence* of all Members of the League. In case of any such aggression or in case of any threat or danger of such aggression the Council shall advise upon the means by which this obligation shall be fulfilled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It should be noted that this is very similar - but not quite the same to the words in the UN Charter:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 2(4) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or *use of force* against the *territorial integrity* or *political independence* of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It should be noted that the Allied Powers _(having been appointed with the rights and title thru Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne)_ were obstructed by the Arab League _(formerly the inhabitance of the Enemy Occupied Territory (EOT) in the post WWI era)_ in the establishment of self-governing institution; a necessary first step towards independence.
> 
> The inhabitance of the EOT were not a party to the Peace Treaty process.  The inhabitance of the EOT were citizens of the Ottoman Empire _(outside the Turkish Republic)_ when it released its hold on the sovereignty to the territory.   The Treaty determined the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> Anything the Allied Powers did in the interest of those territories _(Palestine being a relatively small piece in comparison to the other pieces that needed to be dealt with)_ was not an external power.  They were the legitimate holders of the "rights and title" to the territory.   And without regard to the Arab Palestinian inhabitance, the fate of the territory rested in the hands of the Allied Powers.
> 
> To this day, the Arab Palestinians have yet to make a claim and then explain the mechanism through which any portion of the "rights and title" passed from the Allied Powers to the Arab Palestinians.  Unlike every single country adjacent to the territory in question, the Arab Palestinian cannot point to a date in which they became independent from League of Nations Mandate under British administration, or the International Trusteeship System (Chapter XII of the UN Charter).
> 
> Needless to say, it is not as simple as you make it out to be.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Treaty determined the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And who did the LoN Covenant say were the Parties concerned?
> 
> The inhabitants, i.e. the Palestinians.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The parties to the Treaty are identified in the Preamble; → Who, having produced their full powers, found in good and due orm, have agreed

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm at a loss for words.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I post:
> 
> The people have the right to self determination *without external interference.*​
> Rocco responds with a whole page of external interference.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If it was as simple as you make it out so be,
> 
> When the decisions were made a century ago, all that was discussed was found in League of Nations (LoN) Covenant:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 10 (LoN) Covenant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Members of the League undertake to respect and preserve as against *external aggression* the *territorial integrity* and *existing political independence* of all Members of the League. In case of any such aggression or in case of any threat or danger of such aggression the Council shall advise upon the means by which this obligation shall be fulfilled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It should be noted that this is very similar - but not quite the same to the words in the UN Charter:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 2(4) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or *use of force* against the *territorial integrity* or *political independence* of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It should be noted that the Allied Powers _(having been appointed with the rights and title thru Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne)_ were obstructed by the Arab League _(formerly the inhabitance of the Enemy Occupied Territory (EOT) in the post WWI era)_ in the establishment of self-governing institution; a necessary first step towards independence.
> 
> The inhabitance of the EOT were not a party to the Peace Treaty process.  The inhabitance of the EOT were citizens of the Ottoman Empire _(outside the Turkish Republic)_ when it released its hold on the sovereignty to the territory.   The Treaty determined the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> Anything the Allied Powers did in the interest of those territories _(Palestine being a relatively small piece in comparison to the other pieces that needed to be dealt with)_ was not an external power.  They were the legitimate holders of the "rights and title" to the territory.   And without regard to the Arab Palestinian inhabitance, the fate of the territory rested in the hands of the Allied Powers.
> 
> To this day, the Arab Palestinians have yet to make a claim and then explain the mechanism through which any portion of the "rights and title" passed from the Allied Powers to the Arab Palestinians.  Unlike every single country adjacent to the territory in question, the Arab Palestinian cannot point to a date in which they became independent from League of Nations Mandate under British administration, or the International Trusteeship System (Chapter XII of the UN Charter).
> 
> Needless to say, it is not as simple as you make it out to be.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Treaty determined the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And who did the LoN Covenant say were the Parties concerned?
> 
> The inhabitants, i.e. the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re still proceeding on a false premise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look it up.
Click to expand...


I would expect you to do that. Your false premise is easily corrected if you take the time to learn the facts.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> And who did the LoN Covenant say were the Parties concerned?
> 
> The inhabitants, i.e. the Palestinians.



Yeah.  And you always seem to (cough cough) forget that the inhabitants included the Jewish people who, as a collective, had the legal right to become one of those independent States mentioned in the LoN Covenant and who had the right to territorial integrity without aggression and external interference.

The LoN Covenant upholds the premise that "interference" in the form of tutelage by advanced nations for those preparing for independence is not only permitted, but is a sacred trust of civilization.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm at a loss for words.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I post:
> 
> The people have the right to self determination *without external interference.*​
> Rocco responds with a whole page of external interference.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If it was as simple as you make it out so be,
> 
> When the decisions were made a century ago, all that was discussed was found in League of Nations (LoN) Covenant:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 10 (LoN) Covenant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Members of the League undertake to respect and preserve as against *external aggression* the *territorial integrity* and *existing political independence* of all Members of the League. In case of any such aggression or in case of any threat or danger of such aggression the Council shall advise upon the means by which this obligation shall be fulfilled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It should be noted that this is very similar - but not quite the same to the words in the UN Charter:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 2(4) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or *use of force* against the *territorial integrity* or *political independence* of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It should be noted that the Allied Powers _(having been appointed with the rights and title thru Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne)_ were obstructed by the Arab League _(formerly the inhabitance of the Enemy Occupied Territory (EOT) in the post WWI era)_ in the establishment of self-governing institution; a necessary first step towards independence.
> 
> The inhabitance of the EOT were not a party to the Peace Treaty process.  The inhabitance of the EOT were citizens of the Ottoman Empire _(outside the Turkish Republic)_ when it released its hold on the sovereignty to the territory.   The Treaty determined the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> Anything the Allied Powers did in the interest of those territories _(Palestine being a relatively small piece in comparison to the other pieces that needed to be dealt with)_ was not an external power.  They were the legitimate holders of the "rights and title" to the territory.   And without regard to the Arab Palestinian inhabitance, the fate of the territory rested in the hands of the Allied Powers.
> 
> To this day, the Arab Palestinians have yet to make a claim and then explain the mechanism through which any portion of the "rights and title" passed from the Allied Powers to the Arab Palestinians.  Unlike every single country adjacent to the territory in question, the Arab Palestinian cannot point to a date in which they became independent from League of Nations Mandate under British administration, or the International Trusteeship System (Chapter XII of the UN Charter).
> 
> Needless to say, it is not as simple as you make it out to be.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Treaty determined the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And who did the LoN Covenant say were the Parties concerned?
> 
> The inhabitants, i.e. the Palestinians.
Click to expand...


Your failed attempt at re-writing of the LoN Covenant is consistent with your failed re-writing of other documents.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  Shusha, P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't know why the LoN Covenant is discussed in the context of Arab Palestinian legal rights.  It is not like the Arab Palestinian is a party to the contract.  The Covenant makes no binding commitment or promise to the Arab Palestinian any implicit or explicit fashion.




 

​


Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> And who did the LoN Covenant say were the Parties concerned?
> 
> The inhabitants, i.e. the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah.  And you always seem to (cough cough) forget that the inhabitants included the Jewish people who, as a collective, had the legal right to become one of those independent States mentioned in the LoN Covenant and who had the right to territorial integrity without aggression and external interference.
> 
> The LoN Covenant upholds the premise that "interference" in the form of tutelage by advanced nations for those preparing for independence is not only permitted, but is a sacred trust of civilization.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The LoN Covenant is an agreement between the parties; explicitly in and for the parties.  The Allied Powers made such agreements between themselves. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> The LoN Covenant is an agreement between the parties; explicitly in and for the parties.  The Allied Powers made such agreements between themselves.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R



Yes.  The LoN Covenant binds those Party to the Covenant to certain principles -- including the principle of sacred trust of civilization to assist emerging independent States.  It in no way binds Israel or the Arab Palestinians.  

In the context of non-interference which Tinmore brings up, the relevant point I was trying to make is that non-interference as a legal principle in international law is NOT absolute.  In particular, emerging States who were not yet capable of full sovereignty and independence (not yet States) were subject to administration by advanced nations according to the principles of those nations in the documents which formulated the very laws of relationships between States which Tinmore uses.

But we are getting picky here, and I'm not sure Tinmore can keep up.


----------



## Sixties Fan

This is why Israel Built a wall on the Gaza Border


----------



## Sixties Fan

As we noted to editors, the allegation, that the mission in Gaza was designed to kidnap or kill a Hamas commander, was flatly denied by the IDF on the morning of Nov. 12th, and all major media outlets we monitored included this denial when citing these early, and completely unsubstantiated, Hamas claims. (In fact, since the article was published, Hamas themselves admitted that this wasn’t accurate.)

Though editors didn’t remove the false claim, they at least added Israel’s denial.

The new sentence is in bold:

(full article online)

Indy editors correct one of Sarah Helm’s false claims about recent Hamas violence


----------



## Sixties Fan

'We die anyway, so let it be in front of the cameras': Conversations with Gazans


----------



## TrueTT

Sixties Fan said:


> 'We die anyway, so let it be in front of the cameras': Conversations with Gazans



Should be archived and shown to the world to dispel all possible avenues for sympathy for the Palestinians from the international community.

These Muslim Arabs have no lives and thus want shahadah. Why is it such a problem when the Jews deliver it to them?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> And who did the LoN Covenant say were the Parties concerned?
> 
> The inhabitants, i.e. the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah.  And you always seem to (cough cough) forget that the inhabitants included the Jewish people who, as a collective, had the legal right to become one of those independent States mentioned in the LoN Covenant and who had the right to territorial integrity without aggression and external interference.
> 
> The LoN Covenant upholds the premise that "interference" in the form of tutelage by advanced nations for those preparing for independence is not only permitted, but is a sacred trust of civilization.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> Yeah. And you always seem to (cough cough) forget that the inhabitants included the Jewish people


What are you babbling about? The native Jews always had the same rights as the rest of the Palestinians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Shusha, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I don't know why the LoN Covenant is discussed in the context of Arab Palestinian legal rights.  It is not like the Arab Palestinian is a party to the contract.  The Covenant makes no binding commitment or promise to the Arab Palestinian any implicit or explicit fashion.
> 
> View attachment 232071 View attachment 232072​
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> And who did the LoN Covenant say were the Parties concerned?
> 
> The inhabitants, i.e. the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah.  And you always seem to (cough cough) forget that the inhabitants included the Jewish people who, as a collective, had the legal right to become one of those independent States mentioned in the LoN Covenant and who had the right to territorial integrity without aggression and external interference.
> 
> The LoN Covenant upholds the premise that "interference" in the form of tutelage by advanced nations for those preparing for independence is not only permitted, but is a sacred trust of civilization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The LoN Covenant is an agreement between the parties; explicitly in and for the parties.  The Allied Powers made such agreements between themselves.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Indeed, and they agreed that the Mandates would not acquire sovereignty. Sovereignty would be in the hands of the inhabitants.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Using children for the "right" to reverse the results of the war of 1948 which created Israel.  A Palestinian tells the truth about the "Right of return".  Destroy Israel.  ]

Hundreds of children bused to border protests by Hamas have been wounded, but more keep coming, entranced by the festive atmosphere and peer validation

(full article online)

For Palestinian children in Gaza, an education in conflict


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Hamas-oriented Palestine Times website has a photo essay on the rally in celebration of the 31dt anniversary of Hamas.

The photos show a very small rally - but with lots of children.





In the past, Hamas rallies would attract thousands. Not sure if this was misrepresented here or if it shows a real lessening of Hamas influence in Gaza.

(more photos online)

Hamas 31st anniversary rally underwhelming, with more kids than adults attending ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  Shusha, P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, you make a couple serious mistakes in such a short sentence.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The LoN Covenant is an agreement between the parties; explicitly in and for the parties.  The Allied Powers made such agreements between themselves.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and they agreed that the Mandates would not acquire sovereignty. Sovereignty would be in the hands of the inhabitants.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The word "sovereignty" is only used once in the League Covenant.  Is is used in the first stanza of Article 22.



			
				Article 22(1) said:
			
		

> To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilization and that securities for the performance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant.



You are grossly misleading the audience by suggesting that the Allied Powers agreed that the "Sovereignty would be in the hands of the inhabitants."  It doesn't say that at all. 

While it does talk about → "peoples not yet able to stand by themselves" → which describes perfectly the Arab Palestinian since the end of the Mandate. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Shusha, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, you make a couple serious mistakes in such a short sentence.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The LoN Covenant is an agreement between the parties; explicitly in and for the parties.  The Allied Powers made such agreements between themselves.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and they agreed that the Mandates would not acquire sovereignty. Sovereignty would be in the hands of the inhabitants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The word "sovereignty" is only used once in the League Covenant.  Is is used in the first stanza of Article 22.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 22(1) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilization and that securities for the performance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are grossly misleading the audience by suggesting that the Allied Powers agreed that the "Sovereignty would be in the hands of the inhabitants."  It doesn't say that at all.
> 
> While it does talk about → "peoples not yet able to stand by themselves" → which describes perfectly the Arab Palestinian since the end of the Mandate.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are trying to smokescreen the issue.

My post is correct. You have nothing but say so.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Shusha, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, you make a couple serious mistakes in such a short sentence.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The LoN Covenant is an agreement between the parties; explicitly in and for the parties.  The Allied Powers made such agreements between themselves.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and they agreed that the Mandates would not acquire sovereignty. Sovereignty would be in the hands of the inhabitants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The word "sovereignty" is only used once in the League Covenant.  Is is used in the first stanza of Article 22.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 22(1) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilization and that securities for the performance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are grossly misleading the audience by suggesting that the Allied Powers agreed that the "Sovereignty would be in the hands of the inhabitants."  It doesn't say that at all.
> 
> While it does talk about → "peoples not yet able to stand by themselves" → which describes perfectly the Arab Palestinian since the end of the Mandate.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are trying to smokescreen the issue.
> 
> My post is correct. You have nothing but say so.
Click to expand...

False premise.


----------



## Sixties Fan

For instance, on Nov. 12-13, Hamas and other terror groups targeted Israeli civilians with more than 450 rockets, amounting to nearly 500 war crimes. Yet HRW, the world’s “leading human-rights group” and its director, Ken Roth, did not take notice.

Not one tweet acknowledging these war crimes and the human-rights atrocities committed against Israelis. Not one post calling for the United Nations to condemn Hamas and the terror groups responsible. Not one article encouraging the world to express support for the children who spent nights in bomb shelters and will surely suffer ongoing psychological harm. One might conclude that the Arab-Israeli conflict is not a priority for the human-rights group.

However, when it came to Palestinian riots on the Gaza border, known as the “March of Return,” conducted with the sole purpose of breaking through the border and entering Israel, HRW and Roth made this a social-media priority. At the height of the riots, on May 13-16, approximately 40 percent of Ken Roth’s tweets focused on condemning Israel for its response to the violent riots.

During the same months as the Gaza riots, the Iranian Revolutionary Guards arrested scores of women who took to the streets of Tehran demanding freedom and democracy. However, HRW devoted four times more social media attention to supporting Hamas’ riots than to defending and praising the brave Iranian women.

HRW is far from the only human-rights group with questionable Twitter priorities.

(full article online)

#HumanRightsHypocrisy


----------



## Sixties Fan

Specifically, in three of the four instances described in B’Tselem’s report, it appears that children were directly participating in the hostilities and violence along the Israel-Gaza border, an act that would fall under the UN’s definition of child soldiers. For example, B’Tselem’s testimonies describe how Fares a-Sarsawi, a 13-year-old, “rolled the tires over the fence and set them on fire. Then we pushed one tire through the fence and threw stones.” One testimony adds that “at one point, Fares climbed the main fence and threw a fire on the other side” and how he “threw stones.” A testimony referring to the death of Ahmad Abu Habel (15) explains how he and his friends would “throw stones at the soldiers and take part in the ‘night-time confusion’ demonstrations.” Suhayb Aby Kashef (16) is described as crossing the “concertina wire laid by the military close to the fence, while hurling stones with a slingshot at Israeli security forces stationed on the other side.”

Even more disturbing is the description of Naseb Musbeh (11), who B’Tselem describes as a “Red Crescent volunteer.” A simple search reveals that no other Palestinian or Israeli source describes the boy as a Red Crescent volunteer, and neither does the Red Crescent itself. Further, according to B’Tselem’s own interviews “Naser was wearing black” (ie. not the official Red Crescent white and red uniform) and that he “He didn’t get a [first aid course] certificate because he was too young.”

(full article online)

B’Tselem’s lack of human rights priorities


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border 
⁜→  Sixties Fan, _et al_,

I have to chuckle when Human Riths Watch (HRW)_(Headquarters: New York, NY)_ touts itself as the leading international Human Rights Organization when it support the causes of registered terrorists and Persian Special Operators that are acting in direct opposition to American and Israeli national security interests.  

It is my opinion that Kenneth Roth, a former federal prosecutor, being the CEO of HRW, is on his "no one is above the law" kick.  He does not care what the consequences are.  Most brain dead people like that, following blindly the path of strict compliance, seldom do.   I am ashamed he is an American.  If it were up to me, I work open a case on both Roth and HRW for Providing material support to terrorists (HAMAS and the IRGC) (18 U.S. Code § 2339A) in the form of promotional services and advocation.  It is this confused set of signals that people like Roth and the HRW send that makes the various Palestinian Terrorist think they have the legal right "to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place." (*1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings*).



Sixties Fan said:


> ...
> 
> Not one tweet acknowledging these war crimes and the human-rights atrocities committed against Israelis. Not one post calling for the United Nations to condemn Hamas and the terror groups responsible.
> 
> ... At the height of the riots, on May 13-16, approximately 40 percent of Ken Roth’s tweets focused on condemning Israel for its response to the violent riots.


*(COMMENT)*

I do not believe that Ken Roth actually understand what the customary response would be if any of the Arab League nations faced such a situation.  
*«  Egypt begins security operation against ‘terrorists’, *
*closes Gaza border  «*
Reuters, Cairo Friday, 9 February 2018​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel Security Agency’s Long Reach in the West Bank


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Shusha, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, you make a couple serious mistakes in such a short sentence.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The LoN Covenant is an agreement between the parties; explicitly in and for the parties.  The Allied Powers made such agreements between themselves.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and they agreed that the Mandates would not acquire sovereignty. Sovereignty would be in the hands of the inhabitants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The word "sovereignty" is only used once in the League Covenant.  Is is used in the first stanza of Article 22.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 22(1) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilization and that securities for the performance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are grossly misleading the audience by suggesting that the Allied Powers agreed that the "Sovereignty would be in the hands of the inhabitants."  It doesn't say that at all.
> 
> While it does talk about → "peoples not yet able to stand by themselves" → which describes perfectly the Arab Palestinian since the end of the Mandate.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> "Sovereignty would be in the hands of the inhabitants." It doesn't say that at all.


Yes it does.


RoccoR said:


> "peoples not *yet* able to stand by themselves"


The Mandate could not create or designate sovereignty. That is inherent. The Palestinians had that. What the Mandate was to help create were the institutions needed for a modern state like national government, (they already had local governments) money supply, post office, etc.. Those are all the product of sovereignty not a prerequisite.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Missing Context in AP Piece Masks IDF's Humanity | HonestReporting


----------



## Sixties Fan

Submission to the inquiry on Gaza border violence - Colonel Richard Kemp


----------



## Sixties Fan

Ever so infrequently, the Summit Daily News publishes some article about the “Palestinian cause.” This past week, a reporter featured a Gazan father who took his sons to see the conflagration that occurs regularly at the border of Gaza and Israel between rioting, tire burning, border rushing, rock and firebomb-throwing Gazans and Israeli military forces. Unfortunately, one of his sons was wounded by a ricocheting bullet. The reporter went on to describe life in the Gaza Strip which, according to him, was made more miserable by an Israeli blockade. By the time I was done reading this opinion piece, I wanted to ask this reporter several, pertinent questions:

1. What responsible parent puts their child in such harm’s way? I would no sooner have exposed my kids to such a scene than I would see them handle poisonous snakes or live grenades.

2. How do the thousands of Gazans get to the border with Israel and what is their purpose for their weekly riots? Who hires the buses? Who provides the tires, fire bombs and hand grenades?

3. What other border police or army would stand for being pelted with rocks and incendiaries? What troops would tolerate attempts to forcibly invade their border? And what purpose is behind those attempts to breach border fences and barriers?

4. Are you not aware of Hamas’ usage of human shields?

5. Are you not aware that Hamas and others have placed rocket launchers in and under schools, hospitals and homes?

6. Have you not read Hamas’ charter which calls for the annihilation of Israel?

7. Are you as a reporter doing enough background and historical research to even know what you are talking about or presenting?

8. Are you remotely aware of the biases you have brought to your piece?

9. Have you seen the destruction of the agricultural fields and forests adjacent to the Gaza Strip which have been burned because of fire bomb-carrying balloons?

10. Have you taken account of the hundreds and hundreds of rockets, mortars and missiles that Hamas and an Iranian-backed and prompted group called Islamic Jihad have fired into Israel over the past number of months, or the attack tunnels which the IDF has located and destroyed — a tunnel into Israeli territory for the purpose of kidnapping and murdering Israeli civilians?

11. Are you aware of the tons and tons of goods and materials that flow through the Kerem Shalom check point from Israel to Gaza daily (that is when Hamas or its surrogates aren’t attacking and blowing up this crossing)?


Your piece featured an irresponsible parent and then went on to attempt to raise sympathy for him and to what he exposed his children to. My question is, if given the chance to do it over, would he make the same mistake?

For your next venture into explaining the Gaza Strip, you might ask yourself why no one seems to want to rule this piece of land? Why not the Egyptians or the Israelis? Why did Israel give up the Gaza Strip in August of 2005? You might ask why there is no adequate sewage treatment or water system in Gaza? Why does sewage from Gaza flow untreated into the Mediterranean Sea, spreading north and winding up on Israeli beaches? Why isn’t electrical service full time in Gaza? What has happened to the groundwater there and why does the drinking water now taste salty? Why, given the millions and billions Hamas has received, hasn’t it built better hospitals, schools and housing for its people, instead of throwing these funds into the building of a vast tunnel system under the Gaza Strip and preparing hundreds if not thousands of rockets for firing into the Jewish state?

Given its location on the shores of the Mediterranean, Gaza could one day be a glorious resort location complete with air and seaports. But as long as it is ruled by the likes of Hamas, none of this, tragically, will ever come to pass.

(full article online)

Watchdog of the Week: Questions for the Reporter on a Gazan Father | HonestReporting


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Submission to the inquiry on Gaza border violence - Colonel Richard Kemp


You realize that stooge Kemp is a paid shill for Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Submission to the inquiry on Gaza border violence - Colonel Richard Kemp
> 
> 
> 
> You realize that stooge Kemp is a paid shill for Israel.
Click to expand...



Says the  who needs to delegitimize everyone who says the truth about Israel and beats up the Palestinians.


----------



## Sixties Fan

BBC Radio 4 ‘Today’ Gaza Strip special – part one


BBC Radio 4 ‘Today’ Gaza Strip special – part two


BBC Radio 4 ‘Today’ Gaza Strip special – part three


----------



## Sixties Fan

Today's theme is "loyalty to the heroes of resistance in the West Bank."

The statement issued along with the announcement said "The Palestinian people have the right to resist the occupation in all forms guaranteed by international laws" - a patently false statement - and it called for "an escalation of the resistance to the Israeli offensive on the West Bank."

Meaning that they are urging West Bank Arabs to shoot more pregnant women and stab more children and any other Jews they can find in Judea and Samaria.

Ironically, all the recent attacks occurred in drive-by shootings, on the very roads that Israel haters keep claiming are "for Jews only."

(full article online)

Today's "peaceful" Gaza protest theme is to encourage West Bank Arabs to kill more Jews ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

On Dec. 11, the Gaza Strip’s Hamas-run Health Ministry reported that 4-year-old Ahmed Abu Abed died after he was injured by Israeli gunfire during protests at the border with Israel the previous Friday. Notably, the ministry has a history of placing responsibility on Israel for child fatalities, and then later backpedaling as more information emerges.

Perhaps with that history in mind, the Agence France Presse reportedcautiously about Abu Abed: “It was not clear why the child had been taken to the border protests and there was no independent confirmation of the circumstances.”

The Associated Press (“Gaza officials: 4-year-old boy dies from Israeli fire“), for its part, apparently sought to fill in with more information, reporting: “Local journalist Hassan Islaieh [sic] said Tuesday the boy was with this father and dozens of other protesters when he was hit by shrapnel Friday. He says the boy was about 20 meters (yards) from the fence.”

According to Electronic Intifada, Isleih is “a camera operator with Quds TV,” which is Hamas-affiliated. If that’s the case, then Isleih hardly provides independent confirmation of Hamas’ claim. AP did not disclose any information about Isleih’s affiliations, professional or ideological.

A review of his Twitter account reveals that Hassan Isleih openly identifies with Hamas’s political platform and is an anti-Semite who praises terrorists and expresses joy over the murder of innocent and unarmed Israelis.

(full article online)

When is a journalist not a reliable eyewitness?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Cultural appropriation reaches high pitch as PA perennially pilfers people's personal portion for their protests.

*Every year, Muslim rioters don Santa costumes to provide an appetizing photo opportunity for foreign photojournalists to send back home, and this year is no different. Here are scenes from years past of "Palestinian" rioters bringing holiday cheer:*

(full article online)

PA rioters hide behind Santa costumes


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Nope, one could not call this a military.  Not in Gaza. ]




Palestinian fighters from Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, the military wing of the Hamas terror organization, attend a rally in Gaza City on December 16, 2018, marking the 31st anniversary of the Islamist group's founding. (Said Khatib/AFP)

Hamas says it’s weighing response to Israeli ‘stupidity’ after 4 killed in riots


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Gee-had denied.


----------



## Sixties Fan

According to al-Akhbar’s report, Egyptian ‎intelligence officials have asked the Palestinian ‎groups to provide them with proof that the IDF ‎indeed targeted protesters who did not pose a threat ‎to Israeli troops. ‎

Cairo has relayed an Israeli message to Hamas saying ‎Israel has no interest in a security escalation, and ‎that it remains committed to recent understandings that have resulted in a dramatic decline in the border violence.

(full article online)

Report: Egypt Steps In to Curb Gaza Border Violence


----------



## Sixties Fan

Farmers on the Gaza border who lost much of their wheat crop in Hamas fires are teaming with a local brewery to make beer.

(full article online)

In wake of Hamas fires, Gaza border wheat farmers will make beer


----------



## Coyote

Sixties Fan said:


> Farmers on the Gaza border who lost much of their wheat crop in Hamas fires are teaming with a local brewery to make beer.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> In wake of Hamas fires, Gaza border wheat farmers will make beer



What a pity a similar alternative isn't available to the Palestinian farmers who who lost their olive trees to Jewish terrorist activities.


----------



## Mindful

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Farmers on the Gaza border who lost much of their wheat crop in Hamas fires are teaming with a local brewery to make beer.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> In wake of Hamas fires, Gaza border wheat farmers will make beer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a pity a similar alternative isn't available to the Palestinian farmers who who lost their olive trees to Jewish terrorist activities.
Click to expand...


So there was a precedent:


Army says it dispersed Israelis who have been involved in eight such attacks *since * drive-by killing of rabbi by Palestinian terrorists.


----------



## Coyote

Mindful said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Farmers on the Gaza border who lost much of their wheat crop in Hamas fires are teaming with a local brewery to make beer.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> In wake of Hamas fires, Gaza border wheat farmers will make beer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a pity a similar alternative isn't available to the Palestinian farmers who who lost their olive trees to Jewish terrorist activities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So there was a precedent:
> 
> 
> Army says it dispersed Israelis who have been involved in eight such attacks *since * drive-by killing of rabbi by Palestinian terrorists.
Click to expand...


Your point being?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Why injured Palestinian protesters keep returning to the fence*

*




*

*“Nothing hinders us. When we revolt against injustice, nobody can stand in our way.”

Wafa Aludaini
*
Gaza, Palestine –
 Since March 30, Palestinians have held weekly protests each Friday, now joined with maritime protests on Mondays, demanding their right to return to their occupied lands and an end to Israel’s twelve-year siege of the Gaza Strip.

During these protests, Israeli forces have injured more than 10,000 peaceful demonstrators with live and rubber bullets, as well as tear gas canisters, while killing 179.

According to the Palestinian ministry of health, many of the serious injuries are to the lower limbs, including the knees, and are the kind of wounds not seen since Israel’s 2014 bombardment and invasion of Gaza.

“The number of wounded has reached colossal proportions, the likes of which we have not witnessed since the occupation of Palestine in 1948,” said Dr. Ashraf al-Qedra, a spokesperson for the ministry of health.

One victim of Israeli fire is Aed Abu Amer, whose picture went viral before he was shot twice in both legs.

“After I was shot the first time and my picture went viral, I felt I was a target for the Israeli snipers,” he said.

“Whenever I came close to the fence they shot at me, until I was finally hit in my other leg.”

Despite suffering extreme bone and tissue damage, Aed said he would return to the fence to protest.

Asma Abu Daqqa, a mother of four shot while rescuing another injured women, was seen in a wheelchair participating in the massive demonstration.

“Despite the seriousness of my injury, I won’t stop protesting even if I have to crawl,” she said.

Why injured Palestinian protesters keep returning to the fence - Just World Educational


----------



## Hollie

*
Why Arabs-Moslems keep returning for welfare payments

The gee-had for dummies.


Hamas Pays Families Of Gazans Killed Or Wounded In 'Return March' 
*
Hamas Pays Families Of Gazans Killed Or Wounded In 'Return March'

_Hamas is continuing to encourage Gazans to participate in the Great Return March.[1] On April 5, 2018, ahead of the second Friday of the protests, Hamas spokesman Hazem Qassem revealed that the movement is granting financial aid to the families of Gazans killed or wounded in the confrontations on the border. The sums range from $3,000 for the family of a "martyr" to $200 for protesters moderately injured. Concurrently, Hamas officials reiterated their determination to continue the marches on the Israeli border, and threatened that these confrontations will "erupt in the face of the Israeli occupation" and will be a turning point in Palestinian history._


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border 
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

This sets the character of the Arab Palestinian mentality wherein the regime conduct is so wanton, so deficient in a moral sense of concern, and so lacking in regard for the life of their citizenry, as to warrant criminal liability in the incitement to violence for the expressed purpose of monetary gain _(attempted suicide to collect a payout)_.



EXCERPT • Hollie said:


> _...__ The sums range from: _
> _✦  $3,000 for the family of a "martyr"
> ✦  $200 for protesters moderately injured. _​_
> Concurrently, Hamas officials reiterated their determination to continue the marches on the Israeli border, and threatened that these confrontations will "erupt in the face of the Israeli occupation" and will be a turning point in Palestinian history._


*(CITATIONS)*

•  Security Council Resolution S/RES/1624 (2005)  •

✪  Reaffirming that acts, methods, and practices of terrorism are contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations and that knowingly financing, planning and inciting terrorist acts are also contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations,

✪   Recognizing the importance that, in an increasingly globalized world, States act cooperatively to prevent terrorists from exploiting sophisticated technology, communications and resources to incite support for criminal acts,

✪   Condemning also in the strongest terms the incitement of terrorist acts and repudiating attempts at the justification or glorification (apologie) of terrorist acts that may incite further terrorist acts,​
•  General Assembly Resolution A/RES/2/110 (II) (1947)  •

✪   _Condemns_ all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage and threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression;​
•  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)(Entry into Force 23 March 1976)  •
General Assembly Resolution A/RES/2200A (XXI) (1966)

Article 20

1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.

2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​
*(COMMENT)*

Each citation has applicability to most hostile actions or policies the Arab Palestinians take.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> This sets the character of the Arab Palestinian mentality wherein the regime conduct is so wanton, so deficient in a moral sense of concern, and so lacking in regard for the life of their citizenry, as to warrant criminal liability in the incitement to violence for the expressed purpose of monetary gain _(attempted suicide to collect a payout)_.
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT • Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> _...__ The sums range from: _
> _✦  $3,000 for the family of a "martyr"
> ✦  $200 for protesters moderately injured. _​_
> Concurrently, Hamas officials reiterated their determination to continue the marches on the Israeli border, and threatened that these confrontations will "erupt in the face of the Israeli occupation" and will be a turning point in Palestinian history._
> 
> 
> 
> *(CITATIONS)*
> 
> •  Security Council Resolution S/RES/1624 (2005)  •
> 
> ✪  Reaffirming that acts, methods, and practices of terrorism are contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations and that knowingly financing, planning and inciting terrorist acts are also contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations,
> 
> ✪   Recognizing the importance that, in an increasingly globalized world, States act cooperatively to prevent terrorists from exploiting sophisticated technology, communications and resources to incite support for criminal acts,
> 
> ✪   Condemning also in the strongest terms the incitement of terrorist acts and repudiating attempts at the justification or glorification (apologie) of terrorist acts that may incite further terrorist acts,​
> •  General Assembly Resolution A/RES/2/110 (II) (1947)  •
> 
> ✪   _Condemns_ all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage and threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression;​
> •  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)(Entry into Force 23 March 1976)  •
> General Assembly Resolution A/RES/2200A (XXI) (1966)
> 
> Article 20
> 
> 1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> 2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Each citation has applicability to most hostile actions or policies the Arab Palestinians take.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Pfffft, your usual slime the Palestinians post.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Sixties Fan

Here are the key quotes from the main Times article, several paragraphs into the article:

" The bullet that killed her, The Times found, was fired by an Israeli sniper into a crowd that included white-coated medics in plain view. A detailed reconstruction, stitched together from hundreds of crowd-sourced videos and photographs, shows that neither the medics nor anyone around them posed any apparent threat of violence to Israeli personnel. Though Israel later admitted her killing was unintentional, the shooting appears to have been reckless at best, and possibly a war crime, for which no one has yet been punished."


Notice how in that key paragraph, the first to introduce the Times’ conclusion, no mention is made of the ricochet. The paragraph makes it seem as if al-Najjar was deliberately and directly shot when Israel fired “into” a crowd that included medics. Only much later does the Times acknowledge that al-Najjar was not directly shot, the bullet did not go “into” the crowd, it struck the ground several yards away.

You have to read deep down into the article, to find these details:

"  Three medics down, all from one bullet. It seemed improbable.

But The Times’s reconstruction confirmed it: The bullet hit the ground in front of the medics, then fragmented, part of it ricocheting upward and piercing Ms. Najjar’s chest.

It was fired from a sand berm used by Israeli snipers at least 120 yards from where the medics fell. "

To get even more details, you need to go to the separate methodology article the Times ran, including that Israel did not fire at the medics, but rather, people near the medics, and that the bullet hit the ground “a few yards away from the medics, and ricocheted off the ground:

" What’s more, behind the target was a group of bystanders and medics in white coats. Former snipers in the United States Army and the Israel Defense Forces told us that, without a backstop, it was a reckless shot to take.

The bullet missed and hit the ground a few yards in front of the medics. Michael Knox, a forensic ballistics investigator, told us that the type of bullet used by the Israeli sniper could skim like a stone off the rocky soil. When it hits soil at a low angle, it pushes the soil ahead of it into a miniature ramp and projects itself up and out of the ground. Mohammed Shafee was hit in the torso with shrapnel. The bullet grazed Rami Abo Jazar’s thigh and continued its upward trajectory to pierce Rouzan just above her chest, severing her aorta." 

It is understandable that anti-Israel activists like James Zogby are upset that the facts of the investigation rebutted the narrative:


(full article online)

After massive investigation, NY Times concludes Israel did not intentionally shoot medic Rouzan al-Najjar


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF annual report: 1,000 rockets fired at Israel from Gaza in 2018


----------



## Sixties Fan

Meet Joe Truzman, our go-to source on Gaza and Palestinian terror groups


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Meet Joe Truzman, our go-to source on Gaza and Palestinian terror groups


How much time has he spent in Gaza?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meet Joe Truzman, our go-to source on Gaza and Palestinian terror groups
> 
> 
> 
> How much time has he spent in Gaza?
Click to expand...


I suspect more time than you, in spite of your assignment as the Hamas Politburo spokesbeard.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The rioters hurling fire bombs, rocks, burning tires and flaming kites – some embellished with swastikas – and ripping down the fence wherever they can are not termed “rioters” by the _Times_ — but “protesters.” The rants of “death to Israel” and threats that the “army of Muhammad” is coming delivered by Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh to chanting mobs are excluded.

The riots are termed instead a “kind of nationalist circus,” which they may be, but genocidal bigotry fuels this circus and its frenzy week after week to overrun the fence and invade Israel.

The _Times_ has a longstanding aversion to reporting straight on demonization of the Jewish people, so there is also no mention of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar vowing last April before the death of the young medic: “We will take down the border and we will tear out their hearts from their bodies.”

The effort broadly to obscure Palestinian violence against Israel includes also blurring the most serious threat, the chronic rocket and missile fire from Gaza into Israel. The _Times’_David Halbfinger and his colleagues relay that the young medic had hoped to study medicine abroad, observing, “But then came the rockets, the blockade, the wars.”

The blockade and wars resulted from thousands of rockets and missiles from Gaza. The onslaught has also necessitated bomb shelters and concrete-protected schools and public spaces throughout Israel’s south, safe rooms in every home and elaborate anti-missile systems to protect against the bombardments. No mention is made of the millions of Israelis who live under missile threat from Gaza.

(full article online)

New York Times Ends Year with Epic Smear


----------



## Sixties Fan

While Hamas is happy to boast openly about their fighters tearing at the border fences in Gaza and hiding behind civilians to evade Israeli soldiers—the _New York Times_ makes no mention of this. Israeli soldiers are portrayed as faceless killing machines, without a single reference to the fire kites, terror tunnels, rockets or cross border explosive devices utilized by the Palestinians, or to the double war crime of Hamas targeting Israeli civilians by firing rockets from behind Palestinian civilians.


These Israeli civilians are not occupiers or usurpers. They live in Israel proper not in occupied or disputed territory. This area was built from scratch by Israelis on barren desert land and the Israelis have a right to be protected from fire bombs and mobs determined to breach the protective fence. How would other nations respond to such threats? Certainly not by treating these dangerous mobs as peaceful protestors merely exercising their freedom of speech and assembly.


The _Times's_ absurd conclusion that the shooter may have committed a "war crime," ignores the law of war crimes.


Contrast what Israel does with how the Palestinians treat terrorists who willfully target and kill Jewish children, women and other civilians. The Palestinian Authority pays their families rewards – in effect bounties -- for their willful acts of murder. Hamas promotes and lionizes terrorists who kill Jews. But you would not know any of that from reading the one-sided _New York Times_ screed....All in all, it is a shockingly irresponsible report.

(full article online)

The New York Times Incentivizes Hamas Violence


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The rioters hurling fire bombs, rocks, burning tires and flaming kites – some embellished with swastikas – and ripping down the fence wherever they can are not termed “rioters” by the _Times_ — but “protesters.” The rants of “death to Israel” and threats that the “army of Muhammad” is coming delivered by Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh to chanting mobs are excluded.
> 
> The riots are termed instead a “kind of nationalist circus,” which they may be, but genocidal bigotry fuels this circus and its frenzy week after week to overrun the fence and invade Israel.
> 
> The _Times_ has a longstanding aversion to reporting straight on demonization of the Jewish people, so there is also no mention of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar vowing last April before the death of the young medic: “We will take down the border and we will tear out their hearts from their bodies.”
> 
> The effort broadly to obscure Palestinian violence against Israel includes also blurring the most serious threat, the chronic rocket and missile fire from Gaza into Israel. The _Times’_David Halbfinger and his colleagues relay that the young medic had hoped to study medicine abroad, observing, “But then came the rockets, the blockade, the wars.”
> 
> The blockade and wars resulted from thousands of rockets and missiles from Gaza. The onslaught has also necessitated bomb shelters and concrete-protected schools and public spaces throughout Israel’s south, safe rooms in every home and elaborate anti-missile systems to protect against the bombardments. No mention is made of the millions of Israelis who live under missile threat from Gaza.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> New York Times Ends Year with Epic Smear


Occupations always have a problem with security. It comes with the territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> While Hamas is happy to boast openly about their fighters tearing at the border fences in Gaza and hiding behind civilians to evade Israeli soldiers—the _New York Times_ makes no mention of this. Israeli soldiers are portrayed as faceless killing machines, without a single reference to the fire kites, terror tunnels, rockets or cross border explosive devices utilized by the Palestinians, or to the double war crime of Hamas targeting Israeli civilians by firing rockets from behind Palestinian civilians.
> 
> 
> These Israeli civilians are not occupiers or usurpers. They live in Israel proper not in occupied or disputed territory. This area was built from scratch by Israelis on barren desert land and the Israelis have a right to be protected from fire bombs and mobs determined to breach the protective fence. How would other nations respond to such threats? Certainly not by treating these dangerous mobs as peaceful protestors merely exercising their freedom of speech and assembly.
> 
> 
> The _Times's_ absurd conclusion that the shooter may have committed a "war crime," ignores the law of war crimes.
> 
> 
> Contrast what Israel does with how the Palestinians treat terrorists who willfully target and kill Jewish children, women and other civilians. The Palestinian Authority pays their families rewards – in effect bounties -- for their willful acts of murder. Hamas promotes and lionizes terrorists who kill Jews. But you would not know any of that from reading the one-sided _New York Times_ screed....All in all, it is a shockingly irresponsible report.
> (full article online)
> 
> The New York Times Incentivizes Hamas Violence





Sixties Fan said:


> This area was built from scratch by Israelis on barren desert land and the Israelis have a right to be protected from fire bombs and mobs determined to breach the protective fence.


The hundreds of Palestinian farm villages that Israel destroyed were populated by people for hundreds of years who could grow no food.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  

This is just so naive and lame, it is beyond description. 



P F Tinmore said:


> The hundreds of Palestinian farm villages that Israel destroyed were populated by people for hundreds of years who could grow no food.


*(COMMENT)*

In the 20th Century, empires came and went.  Kings fell and royal houses were assassinated.   Old countries collapsed and new countries arose.  While some of these events were huge in their effect over the landscape of more than a third of the world.  And like the Crimea, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is insanely small in terms of both territory and people.

It is generally accepted that the release of the Occupied Territories is impossible for the foreseeable future, at least not until the political dynamics have changed inside the Middle East → something that is NOT likely to happen anytime soon.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF strikes Hamas posts in Gaza after explosive flown into Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

A Palestinian non-governmental organization (NGO), Defense for Children International – Palestine(DCI-P), has, in two documents, compiled information demonstrating Palestinian violence along the Gaza border during the “Great March of Return.” Despite DCI-P’s claims that the march is a series of “protests” led by “civilians,” the actual evidence provided in their documentation proves otherwise.

(full article online)

Palestinian NGO Inadvertently Exonerates IDF


----------



## Sixties Fan

The air strike followed violent riots on the Gaza border, in which 13,000 Gazan rioters threw grenades and explosives.

There were three incidents of Gazans breaking through the border fence into Israel. The soldiers stopped them before they could reach the homes of Israeli families who live minutes away.

(full article online)

IDF attacks two Hamas posts


----------



## Sixties Fan

The violence that unfolded Friday along the eastern Gaza border reached a level that we have not seen since financial aid from Qatar was transferred to Hamas two months ago. The source of the unrest was a delay of a $15 million dollar transfer from Qatar. The reason for the delay, according to some reports, the calm-for-calm agreement, a condition Israel stipulated in allowing funds to transfer into Gaza, was not adhered to by Hamas. Let’s take a closer look…

On Wednesday, members of the Rafah Kushuk Unit released a message warning the Israeli government of serious consequences if the “Zionists” did not keep their end of the deal. Notice the man at the bottom of the frame in the middle with a beard? How about the man to his left with the blue undercoat? Both are known members of militant groups in Gaza.

On Thursday, with no indication of a money transfer in sight, Palestinian border units made good on their threats. They resumed operations by sending explosive and incendiary balloons into Israel throughout the day.

(full article and videos online)

GroundBrief: Gaza’s March of Return, Israel strikes Syria and more


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Possibly (?) just another Gazan tired of Gaza who wants some vacation at a prison in Israel   ]

A suspect arrested by IDF soldiers on Friday morning after he crossed the border fence in northern Gaza is a member of the Hamas terrorist organization, it was cleared for publication on Friday evening.

The IDF Spokesperson’s Unit said the terrorist was arrested immediately after he crossed the border fence, was under surveillance of security forces, and immediately after crossing surrendered himself.

(full article online)

IDF arrests Hamas terrorist who crossed Gaza border


----------



## Sixties Fan

“Nonviolent” protestors do not carry knives, wire-cutters and improvised firebombs.

(full article online )

Context is key: It was a riot, not a protest


----------



## Sixties Fan

When people don’t support Israel they are supporting this/media


----------



## Sixties Fan

Shots fired at Israeli troops on Gaza border; IDF tank destroys Hamas post


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ The religion of peace and those peaceful demonstrators ]

10,000 rioters throw grenades and rocks at IDF soldiers. In Judea and Samaria, IDF forces eliminate rock-throwing terrorist.

(full article online)

Thousands of Gazans riot along border fence


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ The Kings of World Welfare ]

Qatar begins dispensing $9.4 million in funds to Gaza’s poor


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center has examined the names of every person killed in the Gaza "return marches" every Friday since last March.

The results are nothing short of remarkable.

(full article online)

150 out of 181 Gaza "Return March" fatalities were terrorists ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## rylah

Sixties Fan said:


> The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center has examined the names of every person killed in the Gaza "return marches" every Friday since last March.
> 
> The results are nothing short of remarkable.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 150 out of 181 Gaza "Return March" fatalities were terrorists ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



A bit more extended report:

*Updated Analysis: At least 80 percent of Palestinian fatalities in Gaza “Return Marches” are terrorists*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center has examined the names of every person killed in the Gaza "return marches" every Friday since last March.
> 
> The results are nothing short of remarkable.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 150 out of 181 Gaza "Return March" fatalities were terrorists ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Civilians can only be described as militants when actively engaged in armed activities. When unarmed they have civilian status.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, you are talking about something you do not know anything about.  You do not have to be armed to be a violator.

Militant only means the person typically favors extreme, violent, or confrontational methods.  It does not require participation.  But the International Law *does not use* the word "militant, but rather "incitement:"
_(Latest version of just one law from 2005)_

1.  Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:

(a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;

(b)  Prevent such conduct;

(c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credibleand relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;" ​
2.  Calls upon all States to cooperate, inter alia, to strengthen the security of their international borders, including by combating fraudulent travel documents and, to the extent attainable, by enhancing terrorist screening and passenger security procedures with a view to preventing those guilty of the conduct in paragraph 1 (a) from entering their territory;​This thumbnail is not all-inclusive but demonstrates the 



P F Tinmore said:


> Civilians can only be described as militants when actively engaged in armed activities. When unarmed they have civilian status.


*(COMMENT)*

Any person commits an offence within the meaning of the Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism if that person by any means, directly or indirectly, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention that they should be used or in the knowledge that they are to be used, in full or in part, in order to carry out an act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.

Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm or constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, involve grave collective danger,  seriously damage to property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by occupying forces are subject to a sentence of imprisonment.  Occupying Power may impose the death penalty on a protected person in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offences were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force. 

If you just drive the care in which an act is committed, you are chargedable.

If you provide financing or material support for the act, you are chageable.

Participates as an accomplice in an offence.​
International law does not prohibit States from adopting legislation that makes it a punishable offence for anyone to participate in hostilities, whether directly or indirectly.


Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Again, you are talking about something you do not know anything about.  You do not have to be armed to be a violator.
> 
> Militant only means the person typically favors extreme, violent, or confrontational methods.  It does not require participation.  But the International Law *does not use* the word "militant, but rather "incitement:"
> _(Latest version of just one law from 2005)_
> 
> 1.  Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:
> 
> (a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> 
> (b)  Prevent such conduct;
> 
> (c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credibleand relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;"​2.  Calls upon all States to cooperate, inter alia, to strengthen the security of their international borders, including by combating fraudulent travel documents and, to the extent attainable, by enhancing terrorist screening and passenger security procedures with a view to preventing those guilty of the conduct in paragraph 1 (a) from entering their territory;​This thumbnail is not all-inclusive but demonstrates the
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Civilians can only be described as militants when actively engaged in armed activities. When unarmed they have civilian status.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Any person commits an offence within the meaning of the Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism if that person by any means, directly or indirectly, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention that they should be used or in the knowledge that they are to be used, in full or in part, in order to carry out an act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.
> 
> Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm or constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, involve grave collective danger,  seriously damage to property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by occupying forces are subject to a sentence of imprisonment.  Occupying Power may impose the death penalty on a protected person in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offences were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force.
> 
> If you just drive the care in which an act is committed, you are chargedable.
> 
> If you provide financing or material support for the act, you are chageable.
> 
> Participates as an accomplice in an offence.​
> International law does not prohibit States from adopting legislation that makes it a punishable offence for anyone to participate in hostilities, whether directly or indirectly.
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> 2. Calls upon all States to cooperate, inter alia, to strengthen the security of their international borders,



Istael's international borders. You are a hoot.



RoccoR said:


> Any person commits an offence within the meaning of the Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism



More of Israel' terrorism canard.



RoccoR said:


> International law does not prohibit States from adopting legislation that makes it a punishable offence for anyone to participate in hostilities, whether directly or indirectly.



Applies to police action not military snipers.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Again, you are talking about something you do not know anything about.  You do not have to be armed to be a violator.
> 
> Militant only means the person typically favors extreme, violent, or confrontational methods.  It does not require participation.  But the International Law *does not use* the word "militant, but rather "incitement:"
> _(Latest version of just one law from 2005)_
> 
> 1.  Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:
> 
> (a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> 
> (b)  Prevent such conduct;
> 
> (c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credibleand relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;"​2.  Calls upon all States to cooperate, inter alia, to strengthen the security of their international borders, including by combating fraudulent travel documents and, to the extent attainable, by enhancing terrorist screening and passenger security procedures with a view to preventing those guilty of the conduct in paragraph 1 (a) from entering their territory;​This thumbnail is not all-inclusive but demonstrates the
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Civilians can only be described as militants when actively engaged in armed activities. When unarmed they have civilian status.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Any person commits an offence within the meaning of the Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism if that person by any means, directly or indirectly, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention that they should be used or in the knowledge that they are to be used, in full or in part, in order to carry out an act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.
> 
> Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm or constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, involve grave collective danger,  seriously damage to property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by occupying forces are subject to a sentence of imprisonment.  Occupying Power may impose the death penalty on a protected person in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offences were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force.
> 
> If you just drive the care in which an act is committed, you are chargedable.
> 
> If you provide financing or material support for the act, you are chageable.
> 
> Participates as an accomplice in an offence.​
> International law does not prohibit States from adopting legislation that makes it a punishable offence for anyone to participate in hostilities, whether directly or indirectly.
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Calls upon all States to cooperate, inter alia, to strengthen the security of their international borders,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Istael's international borders. You are a hoot.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any person commits an offence within the meaning of the Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More of Israel' terrorism canard.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> International law does not prohibit States from adopting legislation that makes it a punishable offence for anyone to participate in hostilities, whether directly or indirectly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Applies to police action not military snipers.
Click to expand...



So, as usual, you were unable to address a single point. 

You couldn’t find a YouTube video?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

All things that are tangible and real → having an effect on the manner of men and understanding have a name.  Names have meaning.  Terrorism is not the "childish" thing you make it out to be _(being associated with Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamist Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter)_.  It is something that has both a reality to it and a set of consequences.  It is real.  

Arab Palestinian consequences perpetrated by those followers of a true psychopathic belief has effect and meaning.   The *accusation* of "name-calling" _(philosophical use of abusive language or insults)_ is a defense of last resort where no evidence is given and no evidence is self-explanatory.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Calls upon all States to cooperate, inter alia, to strengthen the security of their international borders,
> 
> 
> 
> Istael's international borders. You are a hoot.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)  *

I have posted them many many times.  One might ask, of what value is it to deny the existance of these established demarcations?

❖  The Jordan-Israel Peace Treaty was signed on October 26, 1994
❖  The Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, 26 March 1979
❖  The International Boundary between Israel and Lebanon was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”, that “this line was reaffirmed in the Israeli-Lebanese General Armistice Agreement signed on 23 March 1949” and that “subsequently there were several modifications mutually agreed by Israel and Lebanon”.
❖  GOLAN HEIGHTS LAW December 14, 1981​
Whether or not political entities say they recognize any specific demarcations is irrelevant.  If the Israelis defend the demarcation as sovereign territories, like any other name, it has a reality to it.   You can deny it, but only to face the enforcement by Israel.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any person commits an offense within the meaning of the Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism
> 
> 
> 
> More of Israel' terrorism canard.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)  *

The accusation of terrorism against the Arab Palestinians is neither unfounded rumor or fiction.  There is a long history of criminal activity behind the accusation.  There are 27 European Nations (excluding the UK), America. Canada, Australia, Iran, Russia, Norway,  Switzerland, Brazil, Turkey, China, and Qatar (38 Countries in all, containing the largest economies of the world) recognize one or more of the Arab Palestinians organizations as terrorist entities. 



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> International law does not prohibit States from adopting legislation that makes it a punishable offense for anyone to participate in hostilities, whether directly or indirectly.
> 
> 
> 
> Applies to police action, not military snipers.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)  * 

This makes no sense.  International Laws pertainin to terrorism are the most recognized criminal proscriptions in the world.  There are 19 universal legal instruments and additional amendments dealing with terrorism.

You either choose to combat terrorism or support terrorism.  I don't need to convince you of what to support.  All I can say is that the countries of the world that represent the largest economies of the world, recognized the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) and a half dozen more active Arab Palestinians organizations as terrorist.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> I have posted them many many times. One might ask, of what value is it to deny the existance of these established demarcations?


The question that you have always ducked is how did Israel claim borders on Palestinian land?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I have never ducked that question.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have posted them many many times. One might ask, of what value is it to deny the existence of these established demarcations?
> 
> 
> 
> The question that you have always ducked is how did Israel claim borders on Palestinian land?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

It was never land sovereign to the Arab Palestinians (Palestinian Land).

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I have never ducked that question.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have posted them many many times. One might ask, of what value is it to deny the existence of these established demarcations?
> 
> 
> 
> The question that you have always ducked is how did Israel claim borders on Palestinian land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was never land sovereign to the Arab Palestinians (Palestinian Land).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Ahhh, Israel's old "there is no Palestine" canard. 

Palestine was never free from occupation. Occupations do not acquire sovereignty. It remains in the hands of the people.

It is well documented when Israel occupied Palestine but I have seen no documents of Israel legally acquiring clear title to that land.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Slow on the up-take are you???



P F Tinmore said:


> Ahhh, Israel's old "there is no Palestine" canard.
> 
> Palestine was never free from occupation. Occupations do not acquire sovereignty. It remains in the hands of the people.
> 
> It is well documented when Israel occupied Palestine but I have seen no documents of Israel legally acquiring clear title to that land.


*(COMMENT)*

✪  POINT ONE:  
◈  In contemporary times, Palestine did not become occupied until the Armistice of Mudros.  For nearly 800 years prior, it was Sovereign to the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire _(not the people)_.
◈  In contemporary times, the territory established as Palestine, under Mandatory Government, came under Civil Administration in 1920 when the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) stood-down.​
✪   POINT TWO:
◈  In contemporary times, Palestine was entrust to a Mandatory,  
◈  In contemporary times, was a Political Entity created by the Allied Powers Powers, 
◈  In contemporary times, was establish within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Allied Powers,
◈  In contemporary times, no documentation is actually rerequired for Title and Rights.  Territorial Sovereignty is the right of a State _(self-determination and territorial integrity)_ over its own territory, to the exclusion of any other States, the functions of a State.
◈  In contemporary times,​
✪  POINT THREE:
◈  In contemporary times, portions of the territory to which the Mandate for Palestine applied was occupied in 1948 by the Jordanian and Egyptian Governments.
✦  The West Bank and Jerusalem was Occupied by the (Arab) Hashemite Kingdom.
✦  The Gaza Strip was Occupied by the Egyptian Government.​◈  In contemporary times (1967), the portions of the territory occupied in 1948 by the Jordanian and Egyptian Governments came under the effective control of Israel.
✦  The West Bank and portions of Jerusalem became Jordanian territory occupied by Israel.
✦  The Gaza Strip became The Egyptian Military Governorship occupied by Israel.​
✪  POINT FOUR:

◈  In contemporary times, the Arab Palestinians did not declare independence until 1988.

The Palestine National Council hereby declares, 
in the Name of God and on behalf of the Palestinian Arab people, 
the establishment of the State of Palestine 
in the land of Palestine 
with its capital at Jerusalem.​✦   Territory undefined (other than to say "in the land of Palestine").
✦   No territory brought under Palestinian Control.​◈  In very recent times, the undefiend territory was granted non-member observer state status. 
✦   Territory undefined _(other than to say "in the land of Palestine")_.
✦   Specifically stipulated "without prejudice to the PLO _[PLO sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people - LAS Rabat Summit - resolution (28 October 1974)]_.​
The Arab Palestinian People, unable to form a coherent Government, speaking with one voice, with various factions calling the other illegitimate, have no true single statement of independent which includes all four of the following _(simultaneously)_:

✪  a permanent population (HAMAS v Fatah); 
✪  a defined territory (Gaza v West Bank v Jerusalem); 
✪  government; (PA v HAMAS) and 
✪  capacity to enter into relations with the other states (PA v HAMAS)​
There exist a question that pertains to the recognition of either faction of the Arab Palestinians to be viewed as 21st Century governments.

✪  First, the constituents of the HAMAS faction claims to support organizations that have been declared terrorist.
✪  Second, the constituents of the PA/PLO factions claims to provide financial incentives to the families that have conducted terrorist activities.​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Slow on the up-take are you???
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhh, Israel's old "there is no Palestine" canard.
> 
> Palestine was never free from occupation. Occupations do not acquire sovereignty. It remains in the hands of the people.
> 
> It is well documented when Israel occupied Palestine but I have seen no documents of Israel legally acquiring clear title to that land.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✪  POINT ONE:
> ◈  In contemporary times, Palestine did not become occupied until the Armistice of Mudros.  For nearly 800 years prior, it was Sovereign to the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire _(not the people)_.
> ◈  In contemporary times, the territory established as Palestine, under Mandatory Government, came under Civil Administration in 1920 when the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) stood-down.​✪   POINT TWO:
> ◈  In contemporary times, Palestine was entrust to a Mandatory,
> ◈  In contemporary times, was a Political Entity created by the Allied Powers Powers,
> ◈  In contemporary times, was establish within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Allied Powers,
> ◈  In contemporary times, no documentation is actually rerequired for Title and Rights.  Territorial Sovereignty is the right of a State _(self-determination and territorial integrity)_ over its own territory, to the exclusion of any other States, the functions of a State.
> ◈  In contemporary times,​✪  POINT THREE:
> ◈  In contemporary times, portions of the territory to which the Mandate for Palestine applied was occupied in 1948 by the Jordanian and Egyptian Governments.
> ✦  The West Bank and Jerusalem was Occupied by the (Arab) Hashemite Kingdom.
> ✦  The Gaza Strip was Occupied by the Egyptian Government.​◈  In contemporary times (1967), the portions of the territory occupied in 1948 by the Jordanian and Egyptian Governments came under the effective control of Israel.
> ✦  The West Bank and portions of Jerusalem became Jordanian territory occupied by Israel.
> ✦  The Gaza Strip became The Egyptian Military Governorship occupied by Israel.​✪  POINT FOUR:
> ◈  In contemporary times, the Arab Palestinians did not declare independence until 1988.
> 
> The Palestine National Council hereby declares,
> in the Name of God and on behalf of the Palestinian Arab people,
> the establishment of the State of Palestine
> in the land of Palestine
> with its capital at Jerusalem.​✦   Territory undefined (other than to say "in the land of Palestine").
> ✦   No territory brought under Palestinian Control.​◈  In very recent times, the undefiend territory was granted non-member observer state status.
> ✦   Territory undefined _(other than to say "in the land of Palestine")_.
> ✦   Specifically stipulated "without prejudice to the PLO _[PLO sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people - LAS Rabat Summit - resolution (28 October 1974)]_.​
> The Arab Palestinian People, unable to form a coherent Government, speaking with one voice, with various factions calling the other illegitimate, have no true single statement of independent which includes all four of the following _(simultaneously)_:
> 
> ✪  a permanent population (HAMAS v Fatah);
> ✪  a defined territory (Gaza v West Bank v Jerusalem);
> ✪  government; (PA v HAMAS) and
> ✪  capacity to enter into relations with the other states (PA v HAMAS)​
> There exist a question that pertains to the recognition of either faction of the Arab Palestinians to be viewed as 21st Century governments.
> 
> ✪  First, the constituents of the HAMAS faction claims to support organizations that have been declared terrorist.
> ✪  Second, the constituents of the PA/PLO factions claims to provide financial incentives to the families that have conducted terrorist activities.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are dancing around the issue. How does any of that refute my post?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Slow on the up-take are you???
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhh, Israel's old "there is no Palestine" canard.
> 
> Palestine was never free from occupation. Occupations do not acquire sovereignty. It remains in the hands of the people.
> 
> It is well documented when Israel occupied Palestine but I have seen no documents of Israel legally acquiring clear title to that land.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✪  POINT ONE:
> ◈  In contemporary times, Palestine did not become occupied until the Armistice of Mudros.  For nearly 800 years prior, it was Sovereign to the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire _(not the people)_.
> ◈  In contemporary times, the territory established as Palestine, under Mandatory Government, came under Civil Administration in 1920 when the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) stood-down.​✪   POINT TWO:
> ◈  In contemporary times, Palestine was entrust to a Mandatory,
> ◈  In contemporary times, was a Political Entity created by the Allied Powers Powers,
> ◈  In contemporary times, was establish within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Allied Powers,
> ◈  In contemporary times, no documentation is actually rerequired for Title and Rights.  Territorial Sovereignty is the right of a State _(self-determination and territorial integrity)_ over its own territory, to the exclusion of any other States, the functions of a State.
> ◈  In contemporary times,​✪  POINT THREE:
> ◈  In contemporary times, portions of the territory to which the Mandate for Palestine applied was occupied in 1948 by the Jordanian and Egyptian Governments.
> ✦  The West Bank and Jerusalem was Occupied by the (Arab) Hashemite Kingdom.
> ✦  The Gaza Strip was Occupied by the Egyptian Government.​◈  In contemporary times (1967), the portions of the territory occupied in 1948 by the Jordanian and Egyptian Governments came under the effective control of Israel.
> ✦  The West Bank and portions of Jerusalem became Jordanian territory occupied by Israel.
> ✦  The Gaza Strip became The Egyptian Military Governorship occupied by Israel.​✪  POINT FOUR:
> ◈  In contemporary times, the Arab Palestinians did not declare independence until 1988.
> 
> The Palestine National Council hereby declares,
> in the Name of God and on behalf of the Palestinian Arab people,
> the establishment of the State of Palestine
> in the land of Palestine
> with its capital at Jerusalem.​✦   Territory undefined (other than to say "in the land of Palestine").
> ✦   No territory brought under Palestinian Control.​◈  In very recent times, the undefiend territory was granted non-member observer state status.
> ✦   Territory undefined _(other than to say "in the land of Palestine")_.
> ✦   Specifically stipulated "without prejudice to the PLO _[PLO sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people - LAS Rabat Summit - resolution (28 October 1974)]_.​
> The Arab Palestinian People, unable to form a coherent Government, speaking with one voice, with various factions calling the other illegitimate, have no true single statement of independent which includes all four of the following _(simultaneously)_:
> 
> ✪  a permanent population (HAMAS v Fatah);
> ✪  a defined territory (Gaza v West Bank v Jerusalem);
> ✪  government; (PA v HAMAS) and
> ✪  capacity to enter into relations with the other states (PA v HAMAS)​
> There exist a question that pertains to the recognition of either faction of the Arab Palestinians to be viewed as 21st Century governments.
> 
> ✪  First, the constituents of the HAMAS faction claims to support organizations that have been declared terrorist.
> ✪  Second, the constituents of the PA/PLO factions claims to provide financial incentives to the families that have conducted terrorist activities.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are dancing around the issue. How does any of that refute my post?
Click to expand...


With facts.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Each Point addresses each aspect of your posting.



P F Tinmore said:


> You are dancing around the issue. How does any of that refute my post?


*(COMMENT)*

Point One addresses the "no Palesetinecannared" rhetoric.

Point Two addresses the "no Palestine" in relationship to "documents of Israel legally acquiring clear title to that land.."

Point Three addresses the "Israel occupied Palestine" rhetoric.

Point Four addresses the implication that there was a Arab Palestinian state to occupy.​
*(OBSERVATION)*

You should do more than just act blind and not apply the facts outline.

No matter how many different ways it is pointed out that the Arab Palestinians are not speaking with one voice, in respect to one piece of territory that they have established, with one government, → you come back with something ridiculous.  I don't think I've seen you address any issue, point by point, such that the discussion can be followed.

You say that "Palestine" but you never make it clear as to whether it is the territory the British stake-out as they defined it for mandate purposes, or territory under Armistice in 1949, or the territory after the Jordanians abandon the West Bank, or the as it stands under the Areas of the Oslo Accords ---  or just what the hell you are talking about.

When you talk about Occupation, you don't express whether that is the Post Mudros Armistice Occupation, the British Civil Administration, the Jordanian Occupation, the Egyptian Occupation, of the post Abandonment Occupation.  Or what?

When you talk about the sovereignty being in the hands of the people, just what people are you talking about, and what people have what sovereignty.

THEN, you have the audacity to suggest that my post doesn't address your post.  Huh!

Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> When you talk about the sovereignty being in the hands of the people, just what people are you talking about, and what people have what sovereignty.


1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine*, including:

(_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

It should be pointed out here that neither of the UN Resolutions are Law, or legally binding.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you talk about the sovereignty being in the hands of the people, just what people are you talking about, and what people have what sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine*, including:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

•  A/RES/3236 (XXIX) Inalienable Rights of 22 November 1974  •
✧  Refers to the PLO, the representative of the Palestinian people,
✧  The PLO did NOT Declare Independent until 14 Years Later.​
•  A/RES/3237 (XXIX) PLO Observer Status 22 November 1974  •
✧  _Invites_ the Palestine Liberation Organization to participate *// NOT //* the State of Palestine.
They are two entirely different political entities.  The State of Palestine was accorded non-member observer State status in the United Nations _[A/RES/67/19  Status of Palestine in the United Nations  (4/12/2012)]_, 38 years later, without prejudice to the acquired rights, privileges and role of the Palestine Liberation Organization.  
✧  The PLO still has Observer Status at the UN.
✧  This resolution comes 7 years after the Six Day War.​
•  It should be noted that any Right of Independency and Sovereignty claimed by the Arab Palestinians in either 1974, could have been claimed prior to 1974 by the Israelis.

*  The entire West Bank was handed over to the Israelis who have effective control over the territory prior to the creation of the State of Palestine.

*(QUESTION)*

What Rule of Law (RoL) are you applying when you suggest that the Arab Palestinians may "interfere" with the Israelis in their advance toward "self-determination?"

Do the Arab Palestinians have the right to demand control of that territory which is already in the hands of Israel?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> It should be pointed out here that neither of the UN Resolutions are Law, or legally binding.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you talk about the sovereignty being in the hands of the people, just what people are you talking about, and what people have what sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine*, including:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> •  A/RES/3236 (XXIX) Inalienable Rights of 22 November 1974  •
> ✧  Refers to the PLO, the representative of the Palestinian people,
> ✧  The PLO did NOT Declare Independent until 14 Years Later.​
> •  A/RES/3237 (XXIX) PLO Observer Status 22 November 1974  •
> ✧  _Invites_ the Palestine Liberation Organization to participate *// NOT //* the State of Palestine.
> They are two entirely different political entities.  The State of Palestine was accorded non-member observer State status in the United Nations _[A/RES/67/19  Status of Palestine in the United Nations  (4/12/2012)]_, 38 years later, without prejudice to the acquired rights, privileges and role of the Palestine Liberation Organization.
> ✧  The PLO still has Observer Status at the UN.
> ✧  This resolution comes 7 years after the Six Day War.​
> •  It should be noted that any Right of Independency and Sovereignty claimed by the Arab Palestinians in either 1974, could have been claimed prior to 1974 by the Israelis.
> 
> *  The entire West Bank was handed over to the Israelis who have effective control over the territory prior to the creation of the State of Palestine.
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What Rule of Law (RoL) are you applying when you suggest that the Arab Palestinians may "interfere" with the Israelis in their advance toward "self-determination?"
> 
> Do the Arab Palestinians have the right to demand control of that territory which is already in the hands of Israel?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> It should be pointed out here that neither of the UN Resolutions are Law, or legally binding.


True, however, this resolution references international law which is binding with or without the resolution.


RoccoR said:


> What Rule of Law (RoL) are you applying when you suggest that the Arab Palestinians may "interfere" with the Israelis in their advance toward "self-determination?"


They don't.


RoccoR said:


> Do the Arab Palestinians have the right to demand control of that territory which is already in the hands of Israel?


That is the question that you have been ducking for years. How did Palestine get into the hands of Israel? Everything that I have seen says it was captured by force which is illegal.


----------



## Uncensored2008

mudwhistle said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'
> 
> 
> 
> Cluster bomb those a-holes.
Click to expand...


Hopefully they'll get Kamala Harris and Cory Booker in the middle of them....


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

These are not even the basic questions faced today.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It should be pointed out here that neither of the UN Resolutions are Law, or legally binding.
> 
> 
> 
> True, however, this resolution references international law which is binding with or without the resolution.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Well, let's see...
✧→ A/RES/3236 (XXIX)  22 November 1974 •
Does not cite or reference any other document that could be construed as International Law; except "Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the *Charter of the United Nations*,"   But THEN so are the Israelis.  The Charter is universally applicable to all members.  In 1974, the Palestinians were not even a member.  This is what is called a feel-good line.​
✧→  A/RES/3237 (XXIX) 22 November 1974  •
_Recalls _ its Resolution 3102 (XXVIII) of 12 December 1973  •
This resolution, again, cites no International Law pointed to the Israeli - Palestinian Conflict.  It _Urges_ that the national liberation movements recognized by the various regional intergovernmental organizations concerned be invited to participate in the Diplomatic Conference - and - it _Urges_ that instruction concerning such rules be provided to armed forces and information concerning the same rules be given to civilians everywhere, with a view to securing their strict observance.  But otherwise, noting specific to the conflict under discussion.​Let's set your observation aside a moment.  Does either of these two documents suggest or reference a pre-existing Palestinian State?  I think not.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What Rule of Law (RoL) are you applying when you suggest that the Arab Palestinians may "interfere" with the Israelis in their advance toward "self-determination?"
> 
> 
> 
> They don't.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinian argument is that the Israelis have effective control over territory in which the Arab Palestinian has a right to national independence and sovereignty; taking the territory by force from the Israelis.  The Israelis, acquired the effective control over territory while in the defense of their Independence and Sovereign Territory against Arab League military interference.  Nothing prohibits the Israelis establishing the effective control.

Further, the territory in question came from either the Hashemite Kingdom or the Egyptian Military Governorship in Gaza.  NOT grasped from the Arab Palestinians.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do the Arab Palestinians have the right to demand control of that territory which is already in the hands of Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> That is the question that you have been ducking for years. How did Palestine get into the hands of Israel? Everything that I have seen says it was captured by force which is illegal.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Again, I have not been ducking that question at all.  I have consistently held that the Right of Self-determination and the Right of Sovereignty and Independence are "Negative Rights."

•  Negative vs. Positive Rights  •​
ARE NOT "positive rights" for the Arab Palestinians to demand Israel provide them Right of Self-determination and the Right of Sovereignty and Independence specific to some territory already under the control of the Israelis.

Israeli is NOT required to take any action to fulfill the Arab Palestinian Right of Self-determination and the Right of Sovereignty and Independence.  If the Israelis want to relinquish control of some plot of territory to the Arab Palestinians for the express purpose of enacting their rights - that is one thing - a courtesy.  But the Arab Palestinians have NO Right to territory acquired by the Israelis from either the Jordanians or Egyptians.

  The Israelis took nothing from the Arab Palestinians in either 1948, 1967, or 1973 Wars _(for which there are Treaties that settle those disputes)_; and the Israelis do no owe the Arab Palestinians anything other than what was agreed upon AFTER the Oslo Accords.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> "Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the *Charter of the United Nations*," But THEN so are the Israelis.


I haven't seen that anywhere.

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Does either of these two documents suggest or reference a pre-existing Palestinian State? I think not.


Yes they do.

_Recognizing_ that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,

_Expressing its grave concern_ that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,

_Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

_Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974​
Recognizing, Recalling, Reaffirms, all suggest a condition that pre dates the resolution. What event in Palestine's history could trigger these pre existing rights? The only one I could find is Palestine's creation in 1924.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does either of these two documents suggest or reference a pre-existing Palestinian State? I think not.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they do.
> 
> _Recognizing_ that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,
> 
> _Expressing its grave concern_ that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,
> 
> _Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
> 
> A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974​
> Recognizing, Recalling, Reaffirms, all suggest a condition that pre dates the resolution. What event in Palestine's history could trigger these pre existing rights? The only one I could find is Palestine's creation in 1924.
Click to expand...



The “country of Pal’istan” you insist was created by the Treaty of Lausanne? 

Not that nonsense again.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ I am transferring my last responses to Billo, who seems intent in discussing the Gaza border in the Boycott thread ]

↑
↑
[And now.....let us see Billo find the article which says that anyone from Gaza threw a stone or rock against the IDF from 300 feet away and was shot at.

Let us see it, Billo. You are so kin in being in the wrong thread making as much noise as you can about this "300 feet" that I want to see who was shot and actually how far they were.

Lets have it.

Take your time.
You shot a medic giving care from 300 feet, so fuck you! ]



I did not shoot anyone, ill mannered baffoon. And there is a background to why the medic was shot. Look it up in the right thread.

Question:

Why do you insist in dragging this thread towards the wrong topic?
Why can you not go to the right thread, here, let me help you since you are only capable of spewing venom and incapable of thinking :

Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border


Now, come to the thread above and discuss what is going on at the border there.

If you do not want to, then you truly show how Fd you are.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ 
↑Susha:
Oh please. Give me a break. If you are on "your" land and you are planting explosives along the fence and throwing grenades at me and aiming guns at me, I have every right to defend myself.

The idea that you have to cross over into my land before I defend myself from your attacks is ridiculous.


Billo:
If I'm planting explosives on my land, that's none of your god-damn business!  ] 



It is the US, or any other country's business if the enemy is planting explosives by the border fence in order to destroy the fence and the enemy's intention is to  invade the US or any other country.

You are not dumb, you just like to play at being one.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I get it, so you are just guessing.  You don't have any actual data to support your claim.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does either of these two documents suggest or reference a pre-existing Palestinian State? I think not.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they do.
> 
> _Recognizing_ that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,
> 
> _Expressing its grave concern_ that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,
> 
> _Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
> 
> A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974​
> Recognizing, Recalling, Reaffirms, all suggest a condition that pre dates the resolution. What event in Palestine's history could trigger these pre-existing rights? The only one I could find is Palestine's creation in 1924.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

There is no pre-existing right to a Palestinian state dating back to 1924.  The Government of Palestine of 1924 was the UK Mandate Responsibility.  No Government, not even when asked, was composed of any Arabs of Palestine.

You are just making this up as you go along.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I get it, so you are just guessing.  You don't have any actual data to support your claim.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does either of these two documents suggest or reference a pre-existing Palestinian State? I think not.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they do.
> 
> _Recognizing_ that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,
> 
> _Expressing its grave concern_ that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,
> 
> _Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
> 
> A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974​
> Recognizing, Recalling, Reaffirms, all suggest a condition that pre dates the resolution. What event in Palestine's history could trigger these pre-existing rights? The only one I could find is Palestine's creation in 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no pre-existing right to a Palestinian state dating back to 1924.  The Government of Palestine of 1924 was the UK Mandate Responsibility.  No Government, not even when asked, was composed of any Arabs of Palestine.
> 
> You are just making this up as you go along.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

As you have noticed, Tinmore never has any actual facts to bring to the discussions.

Everything he says is based on his *dream* on how he wishes Israel did not exist and all the ways and forms he comes up with to "prove" that Israel does not have the right to exist.

His Christian heart, or Muslim heart, cannot deal with the idea that the Jews are not TOTALLY at the mercy of Christianity and Islam anymore.

Tough, Tinmore, tough


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Here is a post of what was going on the day the medic was shot ]

LTC (R) Peter Lerner on Twitter

#IDF released footage from yesterday revealing some of the challenges in differentiating medical staff from violent rioters. First image is a white coated person with bolt cutters trying to breach the fence. Second image shows many white coats adjacent to the fence.

(vide video on the tweeter link )

Pro-Israel Bay Bloggers: Are Medics the latest Human shields in Gaza?


Now Billo, here is the problem the IDF faces at the Gaza border:

Many from Gaza seem to not be medics but are wearing medic white coats.  I won't even ask why.

You seem to think that the IDF just goes around shooting the people in Gaza for no reason.  The Medic was clearly a possibly mistake, but a mistake which would have been avoided if NON MEDICS were not going around wearing white coats to look like medics while they try to plant explosives or breach the fence.


Accept it or not, that is what is going on from the Hamas side.
Hamas will do anything to invade Israel, while making its side look like the victims they never were.

The victims, are all of those in Gaza who believe what Hamas sells, or need money to eat, and end up going to these protests and coming near they fence when they should be away from it.

AND, by the way, most of those shot at by the fence ARE members of Hamas.


I hope this post has cleared your confusion as to what happened to the medic, and what is really going on over there, since your drone does not seem to be functioning and cannot get there to find out more about anything that goes on there.

 Am Israel Chai


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ This is another post from the time of the Medic's death.  It deals with all the misinformation which apparently was going on at the time about was she was wearing, where she was shot, etc....]

Contradictions in Palestinian Accounts of Death of Razan Najjar


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Here are other posts which shows how far the Palestinians in Gaza will go in order to attack Israelis/Jews in reference to the killing of the medic ]

Palestinians Inciting Murder Against Innocent Young Israeli Woman


Hamas terrorists attack mourners' tent


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  Not bad being at the border and being killed or injured.  One ALWAYS gets paid for it.  This is from today, as the "protests" continue.   Now, which group/territory turn their protest/riots into a paying gig? ]

The head of the charity committee of Hamas, Ahmad Kurd, announced that the Gaza government will distribute compensation money to about 4,000 of the rioters who were hurt in confrontations with Israel.

Channel 2 News reported that the payments will be made through banks in Gaza.

Hamas to pay rioters injured by IDF


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I get it, so you are just guessing.  You don't have any actual data to support your claim.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does either of these two documents suggest or reference a pre-existing Palestinian State? I think not.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they do.
> 
> _Recognizing_ that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,
> 
> _Expressing its grave concern_ that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,
> 
> _Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
> 
> A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974​
> Recognizing, Recalling, Reaffirms, all suggest a condition that pre dates the resolution. What event in Palestine's history could trigger these pre-existing rights? The only one I could find is Palestine's creation in 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no pre-existing right to a Palestinian state dating back to 1924.  The Government of Palestine of 1924 was the UK Mandate Responsibility.  No Government, not even when asked, was composed of any Arabs of Palestine.
> 
> You are just making this up as you go along.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> There is no pre-existing right to a Palestinian state dating back to 1924.


You are still ducking the question.

Recognizing, Recalling, Reaffirms, all suggest a condition that pre dates the resolution. What event in Palestine's history could trigger these pre-existing rights?​


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I get it, so you are just guessing.  You don't have any actual data to support your claim.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does either of these two documents suggest or reference a pre-existing Palestinian State? I think not.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they do.
> 
> _Recognizing_ that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,
> 
> _Expressing its grave concern_ that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,
> 
> _Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
> 
> A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974​
> Recognizing, Recalling, Reaffirms, all suggest a condition that pre dates the resolution. What event in Palestine's history could trigger these pre-existing rights? The only one I could find is Palestine's creation in 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no pre-existing right to a Palestinian state dating back to 1924.  The Government of Palestine of 1924 was the UK Mandate Responsibility.  No Government, not even when asked, was composed of any Arabs of Palestine.
> 
> You are just making this up as you go along.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no pre-existing right to a Palestinian state dating back to 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are still ducking the question.
> 
> Recognizing, Recalling, Reaffirms, all suggest a condition that pre dates the resolution. What event in Palestine's history could trigger these pre-existing rights?​
Click to expand...


Rocco is not arguing against the rights of the Arab Palestinians to self-determination. He is arguing that the Jewish people have those same rights. If the source of those rights is UN resolutions (it's not) as you claim then the Jewish people's claims are just as entrenched as the Arab's.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I get it, so you are just guessing.  You don't have any actual data to support your claim.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does either of these two documents suggest or reference a pre-existing Palestinian State? I think not.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they do.
> 
> _Recognizing_ that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,
> 
> _Expressing its grave concern_ that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,
> 
> _Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
> 
> A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974​
> Recognizing, Recalling, Reaffirms, all suggest a condition that pre dates the resolution. What event in Palestine's history could trigger these pre-existing rights? The only one I could find is Palestine's creation in 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no pre-existing right to a Palestinian state dating back to 1924.  The Government of Palestine of 1924 was the UK Mandate Responsibility.  No Government, not even when asked, was composed of any Arabs of Palestine.
> 
> You are just making this up as you go along.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no pre-existing right to a Palestinian state dating back to 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are still ducking the question.
> 
> Recognizing, Recalling, Reaffirms, all suggest a condition that pre dates the resolution. What event in Palestine's history could trigger these pre-existing rights?​
Click to expand...

You fish too much.  There are no fishes in this ocean you are swimming in.

The Ottoman Empire owned all of that land by force for 800 years.
They joined Germany in WWI and LOST the war, and most of those lands with it.  Just as Germany did.

There was no Arab Nation initiated on the Land of Israel, EVER, not even when the Muslim Kurds first took the area in the 7th Century invasion.

The Palestine Mandate (called Palestine instead of Israel by the British government because they HATED JEWS ).

But the Mandate for Palestine was still and should have continued to be for The National Homeland of the Jewish People, because it was ON the ANCIENT HOMELAND of......guess who?

The ONLY reason Husseini and his clan of bastards complained and started riots against the Jews, is because he believed in Jihad and that the Jews should NEVER have ANY sovereignty of their own, Especially on once upon a time  Muslim conquered land.

You can BS about pre this, and pre that all you like.

NO ARAB  muslim at the time thought of themselves as "Palestinians", they actually wanted to have that land of that Mandate as part of the Syrian Mandate and become Greater Syria.

ALL BECAUSE  the Arab leaders HATED  JEWS.

Only reason why the Arab League was created.
Only reason why riots against the Jews began in 1920 and continue to this day.

SOME  Muslims HATE Jews and give them absolutely NO RIGHTS as human being at all.  They do not even see them as humans.


Is your vision about the "conflict" better now?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I get it, so you are just guessing.  You don't have any actual data to support your claim.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does either of these two documents suggest or reference a pre-existing Palestinian State? I think not.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they do.
> 
> _Recognizing_ that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,
> 
> _Expressing its grave concern_ that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,
> 
> _Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
> 
> A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974​
> Recognizing, Recalling, Reaffirms, all suggest a condition that pre dates the resolution. What event in Palestine's history could trigger these pre-existing rights? The only one I could find is Palestine's creation in 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no pre-existing right to a Palestinian state dating back to 1924.  The Government of Palestine of 1924 was the UK Mandate Responsibility.  No Government, not even when asked, was composed of any Arabs of Palestine.
> 
> You are just making this up as you go along.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no pre-existing right to a Palestinian state dating back to 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are still ducking the question.
> 
> Recognizing, Recalling, Reaffirms, all suggest a condition that pre dates the resolution. What event in Palestine's history could trigger these pre-existing rights?​
Click to expand...

As Rocco stated:  There was NO pre-exiting right to any Palestinian Arab State dating back to 1920, actually.

And when the Arabs of the Mandate for Palestine were offered their own State out of what was left of the Mandate, minus 78% given to the Hashemite Arabs......THEY rejected it.

In other words, these endless weekly riots (peaceful, are they not? )
are simply a continuation of the same violent riots started by Husseini in 1920.

Nothing new, Tinmore.


No Jewish State then, if the Muslims had anything to say then.

NO Jewish State NOW, if the Muslims have anything to say about it now.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I get it, so you are just guessing.  You don't have any actual data to support your claim.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does either of these two documents suggest or reference a pre-existing Palestinian State? I think not.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they do.
> 
> _Recognizing_ that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,
> 
> _Expressing its grave concern_ that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,
> 
> _Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
> 
> A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974​
> Recognizing, Recalling, Reaffirms, all suggest a condition that pre dates the resolution. What event in Palestine's history could trigger these pre-existing rights? The only one I could find is Palestine's creation in 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no pre-existing right to a Palestinian state dating back to 1924.  The Government of Palestine of 1924 was the UK Mandate Responsibility.  No Government, not even when asked, was composed of any Arabs of Palestine.
> 
> You are just making this up as you go along.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no pre-existing right to a Palestinian state dating back to 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are still ducking the question.
> 
> Recognizing, Recalling, Reaffirms, all suggest a condition that pre dates the resolution. What event in Palestine's history could trigger these pre-existing rights?​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As Rocco stated:  There was NO pre-exiting right to any Palestinian Arab State dating back to 1920, actually.
> 
> And when the Arabs of the Mandate for Palestine were offered their own State out of what was left of the Mandate, minus 78% given to the Hashemite Arabs......THEY rejected it.
> 
> In other words, these endless weekly riots (peaceful, are they not? )
> are simply a continuation of the same violent riots started by Husseini in 1920.
> 
> Nothing new, Tinmore.
> 
> 
> No Jewish State then, if the Muslims had anything to say then.
> 
> NO Jewish State NOW, if the Muslims have anything to say about it now.
Click to expand...


Which automatically means if they had their way there would not be the “ Two State Solution “ we hear so much about . Hope they keep it up;  it just gives Israel more reason not to give up any more land


----------



## Hollie

While most of us in the relevant first world have school, jobs, family responsibilities and a sense of our lives being meaningful, the UNRWA welfare fraud enabled Death Cultists are, while largely ignored, looking for that little slice of Death Cult “martyrdom”.


Report: Two Palestinians killed by IDF fire during weekly Gaza protests

REPORT: TWO PALESTINIANS KILLED BY IDF FIRE DURING WEEKLY GAZA PROTESTS


Weekly Riots by the eternally aggrieved, welfare fraud entitled Islamic terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

It’s all Arab-Moslem fun and games until the IDF has had enough.


----------



## Hollie

Behind the Great March of Return I Need More Welfare Money


https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...e8-af3c-2123715f78df_story.html?noredirect=on

GAZA CITY — Every Friday for the past month, thousands of Palestinians have surged to Gaza’s border fence with Israel in a show of anger and defiance, some throwing stones and molotov cocktails, others simply wanting to be there. 

“Young people have nothing to lose,” said 31-year-old Mohammed Sukkar, a few hundred yards from the boundary fence on the first day of protests last month as the crowd retreated after pops of gunfire. Sukkar is unemployed and said he is hard-pressed to feed his six children.



Sukkah is a role model for Arab-Moslem “yutes”. He’s 31, unemployed, has six kids he can’t feed.....so.......no point looking for a job, might as well attend the border riots and maybe catch a stray bullet. 

Sure beats working for a living.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> While most of us in the relevant first world have school, jobs, family responsibilities and a sense of our lives being meaningful, the UNRWA welfare fraud enabled Death Cultists are, while largely ignored, looking for that little slice of Death Cult “martyrdom”.
> 
> 
> Report: Two Palestinians killed by IDF fire during weekly Gaza protests
> 
> REPORT: TWO PALESTINIANS KILLED BY IDF FIRE DURING WEEKLY GAZA PROTESTS
> 
> 
> Weekly Riots by the eternally aggrieved, welfare fraud entitled Islamic terrorists.



Way to go !!!!


----------



## Sixties Fan

Navy catches unarmed Palestinian trying to swim to Israel from Gaza


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Sixties Fan said:


> Navy catches unarmed Palestinian trying to swim to Israel from Gaza



What did they do with him? They should kill him


----------



## Hollie

The gee-had that wasn’t.

Palestinian Poll: Hamas-Led March of Return Achieved Nothing

The vast majority of the Palestinians believe that the so-called March of Return, the violent Hamas-led riots on Israel’s border with Gaza, achieved nothing.




Well, no kidding. The border gee-had was just another failed stunt perpetrated by Arab-Moslem misfits that resulted in a lot of dead Arabs-Moslems.

Gee-had denied,


----------



## Sixties Fan

It is worth noting that the Hamas and Islamic Jihad members who were killed while participating in the violence near the Gaza-Israel border did not come there dressed in military uniforms or carrying their weapons. Instead, the Hamas and Islamic Jihad men participated in the weekly protests dressed in civilian clothes. They pretended they were ordinary and innocent civilians protesting against the economic crisis in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip.


While they are in Cairo, the Hamas and Islamic Jihad leaders continue to send thousands of women and children to engage in violent attacks on Israeli soldiers. These leaders do not care about the safety or welfare of their women and children. On the contrary; the more dead women and children, the better. That way, they can blame Israel for killing innocent civilians and incite more Palestinians to join the jihad against Jews.


Those who are encouraging women and children to take part in a violent confrontation with the Israeli army should be held accountable for war crimes. It is time for the international community to call on Hamas and Islamic Jihad and the other terrorist groups in the Gaza Strip to stop hiding behind women and children and to stop using them as human shields in their jihad to eliminate Israel.

(full article online)

Hamas, Islamic Jihad War Crimes Against Children and Women


----------



## Hollie

It was interesting to come across an article from almost a year ago regarding the failed Islamic terrorist gee-had at the Israeli border.

As of April of last year, enthusiasm for the border gee-had was waning as Arabs-Moslems began to see themselves used as cannon fodder by Hamas.

Just another Islamic Terrorist stunt that achieved only dead and injured islsmic terrorists.

*

Three weeks: How Gaza’s mass protests are failing to make an impact*


_Examination of numbers reported injured and types of injuries points to major reduction in violence and numbers participating in protests.
The “Great March of Return” protests that Hamas and Gaza activists launched on March 30 saw their lowest turnout in three weeks and the smallest number of casualties in clashes with Israeli forces, with one Palestinian killed and 528 reported injured on Friday.

Israeli authorities have been steadfast and on message about the protesters being a cover for violent action, while Hamas and the local activists have attempted to keep up the momentum. The proportion of those injured by live fire has declined by half, indicating a major reduction not only in the size of the protests but the level of violence along the border._


----------



## Sixties Fan

Not content with merely refusing to solve the crisis, Hamas is actively making it worse. A major factor in the crisis has been the overload of patients caused by Hamas’s insistence on holding violent mass protests near the Israeli border every week for almost a year now.

(Full article online)

Gaza’s self-inflicted health crisis shows why peace remains a fantasy


----------



## Sixties Fan

Blaming Israel for violence, Gaza factions warn: “We will not allow attacks on border protesters to continue” • Armed groups say they are “shocked by Arab world’s silence.”

(full article online)

Armed factions in Gaza: Region on verge of explosion


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> Blaming Israel for violence, Gaza factions warn: “We will not allow attacks on border protesters to continue” • Armed groups say they are “shocked by Arab world’s silence.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Armed factions in Gaza: Region on verge of explosion



Armed factions in Gaza'istan. They're such drama queens. If they are on the verge of explosion, let them explode and burn down more of the infrastructure that is bought and paid for by the UNRWA welfare fraud. 

These chuckleheads are nothing but a liability to the Arab-Islamist world so it's odd that they're playing the "poor, oppressed Pal'istanian" card.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The IDF said that about 11,000 rioters gathered in several locations along the border fence. The rioters hurled rocks at IDF soldiers and the fence, and a number of explosive devices and grenades were thrown at the fence and at the forces operating near it.

(full article online)

Border Police officer wounded during Gaza riots


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I get it, so you are just guessing.  You don't have any actual data to support your claim.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does either of these two documents suggest or reference a pre-existing Palestinian State? I think not.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they do.
> 
> _Recognizing_ that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,
> 
> _Expressing its grave concern_ that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,
> 
> _Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
> 
> A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974​
> Recognizing, Recalling, Reaffirms, all suggest a condition that pre dates the resolution. What event in Palestine's history could trigger these pre-existing rights? The only one I could find is Palestine's creation in 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no pre-existing right to a Palestinian state dating back to 1924.  The Government of Palestine of 1924 was the UK Mandate Responsibility.  No Government, not even when asked, was composed of any Arabs of Palestine.
> 
> You are just making this up as you go along.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no pre-existing right to a Palestinian state dating back to 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are still ducking the question.
> 
> Recognizing, Recalling, Reaffirms, all suggest a condition that pre dates the resolution. What event in Palestine's history could trigger these pre-existing rights?​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You fish too much.  There are no fishes in this ocean you are swimming in.
> 
> The Ottoman Empire owned all of that land by force for 800 years.
> They joined Germany in WWI and LOST the war, and most of those lands with it.  Just as Germany did.
> 
> There was no Arab Nation initiated on the Land of Israel, EVER, not even when the Muslim Kurds first took the area in the 7th Century invasion.
> 
> The Palestine Mandate (called Palestine instead of Israel by the British government because they HATED JEWS ).
> 
> But the Mandate for Palestine was still and should have continued to be for The National Homeland of the Jewish People, because it was ON the ANCIENT HOMELAND of......guess who?
> 
> The ONLY reason Husseini and his clan of bastards complained and started riots against the Jews, is because he believed in Jihad and that the Jews should NEVER have ANY sovereignty of their own, Especially on once upon a time  Muslim conquered land.
> 
> You can BS about pre this, and pre that all you like.
> 
> NO ARAB  muslim at the time thought of themselves as "Palestinians", they actually wanted to have that land of that Mandate as part of the Syrian Mandate and become Greater Syria.
> 
> ALL BECAUSE  the Arab leaders HATED  JEWS.
> 
> Only reason why the Arab League was created.
> Only reason why riots against the Jews began in 1920 and continue to this day.
> 
> SOME  Muslims HATE Jews and give them absolutely NO RIGHTS as human being at all.  They do not even see them as humans.
> 
> 
> Is your vision about the "conflict" better now?
Click to expand...

Is deflection all you got?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does either of these two documents suggest or reference a pre-existing Palestinian State? I think not.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they do.
> 
> _Recognizing_ that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,
> 
> _Expressing its grave concern_ that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,
> 
> _Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
> 
> A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974​
> Recognizing, Recalling, Reaffirms, all suggest a condition that pre dates the resolution. What event in Palestine's history could trigger these pre existing rights? The only one I could find is Palestine's creation in 1924.
Click to expand...



You are confusing Arab Palestinians right to self-determination with the right to a State.  Self-determination for peoples is inherent and grounded in international law (though not as clearly as you might imagine).  There is no inherent right for any peoples to a State -- there is only a set of criteria which must be met in order to BE a State.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does either of these two documents suggest or reference a pre-existing Palestinian State? I think not.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they do.
> 
> _Recognizing_ that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,
> 
> _Expressing its grave concern_ that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,
> 
> _Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
> 
> A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974​
> Recognizing, Recalling, Reaffirms, all suggest a condition that pre dates the resolution. What event in Palestine's history could trigger these pre existing rights? The only one I could find is Palestine's creation in 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are confusing Arab Palestinians right to self-determination with the right to a State.  Self-determination for peoples is inherent and grounded in international law (though not as clearly as you might imagine).  There is no inherent right for any peoples to a State -- there is only a set of criteria which must be met in order to BE a State.
Click to expand...

Indeed, one is a defined territory. Israel has never had that.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does either of these two documents suggest or reference a pre-existing Palestinian State? I think not.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they do.
> 
> _Recognizing_ that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,
> 
> _Expressing its grave concern_ that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,
> 
> _Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
> 
> A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974​
> Recognizing, Recalling, Reaffirms, all suggest a condition that pre dates the resolution. What event in Palestine's history could trigger these pre existing rights? The only one I could find is Palestine's creation in 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are confusing Arab Palestinians right to self-determination with the right to a State.  Self-determination for peoples is inherent and grounded in international law (though not as clearly as you might imagine).  There is no inherent right for any peoples to a State -- there is only a set of criteria which must be met in order to BE a State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, one is a defined territory. Israel has never had that.
Click to expand...


Nice side step.  Israel did and does have a defined territory.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does either of these two documents suggest or reference a pre-existing Palestinian State? I think not.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they do.
> 
> _Recognizing_ that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,
> 
> _Expressing its grave concern_ that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,
> 
> _Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
> 
> A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974​
> Recognizing, Recalling, Reaffirms, all suggest a condition that pre dates the resolution. What event in Palestine's history could trigger these pre existing rights? The only one I could find is Palestine's creation in 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are confusing Arab Palestinians right to self-determination with the right to a State.  Self-determination for peoples is inherent and grounded in international law (though not as clearly as you might imagine).  There is no inherent right for any peoples to a State -- there is only a set of criteria which must be met in order to BE a State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, one is a defined territory. Israel has never had that.
Click to expand...


Indeed, the islamic terrorists at the border gee-had can tell you precisely where Israel's defined territory is. 

Indeed, you can go there and discover that location for yourself. Make a YouTube video.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does either of these two documents suggest or reference a pre-existing Palestinian State? I think not.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they do.
> 
> _Recognizing_ that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,
> 
> _Expressing its grave concern_ that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,
> 
> _Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
> 
> A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974​
> Recognizing, Recalling, Reaffirms, all suggest a condition that pre dates the resolution. What event in Palestine's history could trigger these pre existing rights? The only one I could find is Palestine's creation in 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are confusing Arab Palestinians right to self-determination with the right to a State.  Self-determination for peoples is inherent and grounded in international law (though not as clearly as you might imagine).  There is no inherent right for any peoples to a State -- there is only a set of criteria which must be met in order to BE a State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, one is a defined territory. Israel has never had that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice side step.  Israel did and does have a defined territory.
Click to expand...

Pffft, *not!*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does either of these two documents suggest or reference a pre-existing Palestinian State? I think not.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they do.
> 
> _Recognizing_ that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,
> 
> _Expressing its grave concern_ that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,
> 
> _Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
> 
> A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974​
> Recognizing, Recalling, Reaffirms, all suggest a condition that pre dates the resolution. What event in Palestine's history could trigger these pre existing rights? The only one I could find is Palestine's creation in 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are confusing Arab Palestinians right to self-determination with the right to a State.  Self-determination for peoples is inherent and grounded in international law (though not as clearly as you might imagine).  There is no inherent right for any peoples to a State -- there is only a set of criteria which must be met in order to BE a State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, one is a defined territory. Israel has never had that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice side step.  Israel did and does have a defined territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pffft, *not!*
Click to expand...


Pfffft Tinmore again displaying both his ignorance and his deeply held Jew hatreds.


----------



## Sixties Fan

WATCH: Palestinians' violent border 'jihad' rages on


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Yeah, you keep saying that, but it is not true.



			
				post: 21825685 said:
			
		

> [
> Indeed, one is a defined territory. Israel has never had that.


*(COMMENT)*

I've copied and linked the documentation on the "defined International Boundaries" - many - many - times - and your claim simply does not come up to par.

Everyone in Israel, the UN Peace Keepers, Jordan, Egypt, and Lebanon knows the boundaries that Israel defends under its sovereign right.  The Arab Palestinians are fractured.  They do not have a single political voice → for a unified people → that speaks authoritatively for Arab Palestinians.

If the Arab Palestinians actually had a way to substantiate the claim that "Israel has never had that"_ (defined territory)_ then the dispute would be solved.  But they don't.

Oddly enough, the Arab Palestinians don't actually need any documentation _(although Israel has that and the Arab Palestinians don't)_.  All they have to have is a territorial boundary that encapsulates a territory, that they enforce their sovereignty by law.  For the Arab Palestinians, that would be called "Area A."

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yeah, you keep saying that, but it is not true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> post: 21825685 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [
> Indeed, one is a defined territory. Israel has never had that.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I've copied and linked the documentation on the "defined International Boundaries" - many - many - times - and your claim simply does not come up to par.
> 
> Everyone in Israel, the UN Peace Keepers, Jordan, Egypt, and Lebanon knows the boundaries that Israel defends under its sovereign right.  The Arab Palestinians are fractured.  They do not have a single political voice → for a unified people → that speaks authoritatively for Arab Palestinians.
> 
> If the Arab Palestinians actually had a way to substantiate the claim that "Israel has never had that"_ (defined territory)_ then the dispute would be solved.  But they don't.
> 
> Oddly enough, the Arab Palestinians don't actually need any documentation _(although Israel has that and the Arab Palestinians don't)_.  All they have to have is a territorial boundary that encapsulates a territory, that they enforce their sovereignty by law.  For the Arab Palestinians, that would be called "Area A."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> I've copied and linked the documentation on the "defined International Boundaries" - many - many - times - and your claim simply does not come up to par.


Not so. You have never posted anything showing Israel's defined territory. It is well known, though, what territory Israel occupies.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yeah, you keep saying that, but it is not true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> post: 21825685 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [
> Indeed, one is a defined territory. Israel has never had that.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I've copied and linked the documentation on the "defined International Boundaries" - many - many - times - and your claim simply does not come up to par.
> 
> Everyone in Israel, the UN Peace Keepers, Jordan, Egypt, and Lebanon knows the boundaries that Israel defends under its sovereign right.  The Arab Palestinians are fractured.  They do not have a single political voice → for a unified people → that speaks authoritatively for Arab Palestinians.
> 
> If the Arab Palestinians actually had a way to substantiate the claim that "Israel has never had that"_ (defined territory)_ then the dispute would be solved.  But they don't.
> 
> Oddly enough, the Arab Palestinians don't actually need any documentation _(although Israel has that and the Arab Palestinians don't)_.  All they have to have is a territorial boundary that encapsulates a territory, that they enforce their sovereignty by law.  For the Arab Palestinians, that would be called "Area A."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've copied and linked the documentation on the "defined International Boundaries" - many - many - times - and your claim simply does not come up to par.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so. You have never posted anything showing Israel's defined territory. It is well known, though, what territory Israel occupies.
Click to expand...


Indeed, Hamas, Islamic gee-had and other Arab-Moslem terrorist franchises can show you where israel’s defined territory is.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yeah, you keep saying that, but it is not true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> post: 21825685 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [
> Indeed, one is a defined territory. Israel has never had that.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I've copied and linked the documentation on the "defined International Boundaries" - many - many - times - and your claim simply does not come up to par.
> 
> Everyone in Israel, the UN Peace Keepers, Jordan, Egypt, and Lebanon knows the boundaries that Israel defends under its sovereign right.  The Arab Palestinians are fractured.  They do not have a single political voice → for a unified people → that speaks authoritatively for Arab Palestinians.
> 
> If the Arab Palestinians actually had a way to substantiate the claim that "Israel has never had that"_ (defined territory)_ then the dispute would be solved.  But they don't.
> 
> Oddly enough, the Arab Palestinians don't actually need any documentation _(although Israel has that and the Arab Palestinians don't)_.  All they have to have is a territorial boundary that encapsulates a territory, that they enforce their sovereignty by law.  For the Arab Palestinians, that would be called "Area A."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've copied and linked the documentation on the "defined International Boundaries" - many - many - times - and your claim simply does not come up to par.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so. You have never posted anything showing Israel's defined territory. It is well known, though, what territory Israel occupies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, Hamas, Islamic gee-had and other Arab-Moslem terrorist franchises can show you where israel’s defined territory is.
Click to expand...

Is deflection all you got?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yeah, you keep saying that, but it is not true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> post: 21825685 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [
> Indeed, one is a defined territory. Israel has never had that.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I've copied and linked the documentation on the "defined International Boundaries" - many - many - times - and your claim simply does not come up to par.
> 
> Everyone in Israel, the UN Peace Keepers, Jordan, Egypt, and Lebanon knows the boundaries that Israel defends under its sovereign right.  The Arab Palestinians are fractured.  They do not have a single political voice → for a unified people → that speaks authoritatively for Arab Palestinians.
> 
> If the Arab Palestinians actually had a way to substantiate the claim that "Israel has never had that"_ (defined territory)_ then the dispute would be solved.  But they don't.
> 
> Oddly enough, the Arab Palestinians don't actually need any documentation _(although Israel has that and the Arab Palestinians don't)_.  All they have to have is a territorial boundary that encapsulates a territory, that they enforce their sovereignty by law.  For the Arab Palestinians, that would be called "Area A."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've copied and linked the documentation on the "defined International Boundaries" - many - many - times - and your claim simply does not come up to par.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so. You have never posted anything showing Israel's defined territory. It is well known, though, what territory Israel occupies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, Hamas, Islamic gee-had and other Arab-Moslem terrorist franchises can show you where israel’s defined territory is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is deflection all you got?
Click to expand...


Your usual cut and paste slogan.

It’s just a fact that Israel has defined territory. The Israelis have effective control and have established sovereignty over that territory. You are free to ignorantly deny that reality.

Your insensate Jew hatreds won’t allow you to admit or acknowledge that but why do you think others would accept your ignorant denial as being anything other than self-imposed?

Indeed, feel free to respond by cutting and pasting a YouTube video, something from a PressTV is preferred.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I can hardly believe you said that_*!*_

So, the last time this topic came up about defined borders, you said that same thing.  I recommend that you look at *Posting #1999 31 JAN '19* to see the same thing...



P F Tinmore said:


> [
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've copied and linked the documentation on the "defined International Boundaries" - many - many - times - and your claim simply does not come up to par.
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. You have never posted anything showing Israel's defined territory. It is well known, though, what territory Israel occupies.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

*Eastern Boundary*​
❖ The Jordan-Israel Peace Treaty was signed on October 26, 1994 →
◈  Article 3 - *International Boundary*​
*Southern Boundary*

❖ The Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, 26 March 1979
◈  Article II  The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel​
*Northern Boundary*

❖ The International Boundary between Israel and Lebanon  was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”, that “this line was reaffirmed in the Israeli-Lebanese General Armistice Agreement signed on 23 March 1949” and that “subsequently there were several modifications mutually agreed by Israel and Lebanon”.  Last Letter Agreement reaffirms the boundary in the *Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General •*
◈    See  A/54/914  S/2000/564  12 June 2000
Paragraph 11 of this report states that “for the practical purpose of confirming the Israeli withdrawal, the United Nations needs to identify a line to be adopted conforming to the internationally recognized boundaries of Lebanon ...”​
*North Eastern Boundary*

❖ GOLAN HEIGHTS LAW December 14, 1981 •
◈    This legislation, extending Israeli law to the area of the Golan Heights was adopted by the Knesset by a majority of 63 against 21.​
These are the most current descriptions of the current boundaries.  I hope you see that this was proved before and that I did not "duck the issue."

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I can hardly believe you said that_*!*_
> 
> So, the last time this topic came up about defined borders, you said that same thing.  I recommend that you look at *Posting #1999 31 JAN '19* to see the same thing...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've copied and linked the documentation on the "defined International Boundaries" - many - many - times - and your claim simply does not come up to par.
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. You have never posted anything showing Israel's defined territory. It is well known, though, what territory Israel occupies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *Eastern Boundary*​
> ❖ The Jordan-Israel Peace Treaty was signed on October 26, 1994 →
> ◈  Article 3 - *International Boundary*​*Southern Boundary*
> 
> ❖ The Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, 26 March 1979
> ◈  Article II  The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel​*Northern Boundary*
> 
> ❖ The International Boundary between Israel and Lebanon  was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”, that “this line was reaffirmed in the Israeli-Lebanese General Armistice Agreement signed on 23 March 1949” and that “subsequently there were several modifications mutually agreed by Israel and Lebanon”.  Last Letter Agreement reaffirms the boundary in the *Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General •*
> ◈    See  A/54/914  S/2000/564  12 June 2000
> Paragraph 11 of this report states that “for the practical purpose of confirming the Israeli withdrawal, the United Nations needs to identify a line to be adopted conforming to the internationally recognized boundaries of Lebanon ...”​*North Eastern Boundary*
> 
> ❖ GOLAN HEIGHTS LAW December 14, 1981 •
> ◈    This legislation, extending Israeli law to the area of the Golan Heights was adopted by the Knesset by a majority of 63 against 21.​
> These are the most current descriptions of the current boundaries.  I hope you see that this was proved before and that I did not "duck the issue."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israel unilaterally annexed territory it captured by force from a people who had no military.

Refute away.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I can hardly believe you said that_*!*_
> 
> So, the last time this topic came up about defined borders, you said that same thing.  I recommend that you look at *Posting #1999 31 JAN '19* to see the same thing...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've copied and linked the documentation on the "defined International Boundaries" - many - many - times - and your claim simply does not come up to par.
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. You have never posted anything showing Israel's defined territory. It is well known, though, what territory Israel occupies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *Eastern Boundary*​
> ❖ The Jordan-Israel Peace Treaty was signed on October 26, 1994 →
> ◈  Article 3 - *International Boundary*​*Southern Boundary*
> 
> ❖ The Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, 26 March 1979
> ◈  Article II  The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel​*Northern Boundary*
> 
> ❖ The International Boundary between Israel and Lebanon  was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”, that “this line was reaffirmed in the Israeli-Lebanese General Armistice Agreement signed on 23 March 1949” and that “subsequently there were several modifications mutually agreed by Israel and Lebanon”.  Last Letter Agreement reaffirms the boundary in the *Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General •*
> ◈    See  A/54/914  S/2000/564  12 June 2000
> Paragraph 11 of this report states that “for the practical purpose of confirming the Israeli withdrawal, the United Nations needs to identify a line to be adopted conforming to the internationally recognized boundaries of Lebanon ...”​*North Eastern Boundary*
> 
> ❖ GOLAN HEIGHTS LAW December 14, 1981 •
> ◈    This legislation, extending Israeli law to the area of the Golan Heights was adopted by the Knesset by a majority of 63 against 21.​
> These are the most current descriptions of the current boundaries.  I hope you see that this was proved before and that I did not "duck the issue."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel unilaterally annexed territory it captured by force from a people who had no military.
> 
> Refute away.
Click to expand...


Sure sure, Jordan, Egypt, Syria and the Jihad Army Of Holy War were all boyscout bands.
Everything captured in the war except for the Sinai peninsula was vested with sovereignty of the Jewish nation under international law, decades before Israel liberated their rightful lands and capital.

Now is the part where You start hysterically dancing around.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I can hardly believe you said that_*!*_
> 
> So, the last time this topic came up about defined borders, you said that same thing.  I recommend that you look at *Posting #1999 31 JAN '19* to see the same thing...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've copied and linked the documentation on the "defined International Boundaries" - many - many - times - and your claim simply does not come up to par.
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. You have never posted anything showing Israel's defined territory. It is well known, though, what territory Israel occupies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *Eastern Boundary*​
> ❖ The Jordan-Israel Peace Treaty was signed on October 26, 1994 →
> ◈  Article 3 - *International Boundary*​*Southern Boundary*
> 
> ❖ The Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, 26 March 1979
> ◈  Article II  The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel​*Northern Boundary*
> 
> ❖ The International Boundary between Israel and Lebanon  was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”, that “this line was reaffirmed in the Israeli-Lebanese General Armistice Agreement signed on 23 March 1949” and that “subsequently there were several modifications mutually agreed by Israel and Lebanon”.  Last Letter Agreement reaffirms the boundary in the *Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General •*
> ◈    See  A/54/914  S/2000/564  12 June 2000
> Paragraph 11 of this report states that “for the practical purpose of confirming the Israeli withdrawal, the United Nations needs to identify a line to be adopted conforming to the internationally recognized boundaries of Lebanon ...”​*North Eastern Boundary*
> 
> ❖ GOLAN HEIGHTS LAW December 14, 1981 •
> ◈    This legislation, extending Israeli law to the area of the Golan Heights was adopted by the Knesset by a majority of 63 against 21.​
> These are the most current descriptions of the current boundaries.  I hope you see that this was proved before and that I did not "duck the issue."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel unilaterally annexed territory it captured by force from a people who had no military.
> 
> Refute away.
Click to expand...


Israel reclaimed land annexed earlier by the Islamic settler colonial project. The Ottoman Turks certainly had an army. 

Islamo-tap dance away.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I can hardly believe you said that_*!*_
> 
> So, the last time this topic came up about defined borders, you said that same thing.  I recommend that you look at *Posting #1999 31 JAN '19* to see the same thing...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've copied and linked the documentation on the "defined International Boundaries" - many - many - times - and your claim simply does not come up to par.
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. You have never posted anything showing Israel's defined territory. It is well known, though, what territory Israel occupies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *Eastern Boundary*​
> ❖ The Jordan-Israel Peace Treaty was signed on October 26, 1994 →
> ◈  Article 3 - *International Boundary*​*Southern Boundary*
> 
> ❖ The Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, 26 March 1979
> ◈  Article II  The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel​*Northern Boundary*
> 
> ❖ The International Boundary between Israel and Lebanon  was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”, that “this line was reaffirmed in the Israeli-Lebanese General Armistice Agreement signed on 23 March 1949” and that “subsequently there were several modifications mutually agreed by Israel and Lebanon”.  Last Letter Agreement reaffirms the boundary in the *Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General •*
> ◈    See  A/54/914  S/2000/564  12 June 2000
> Paragraph 11 of this report states that “for the practical purpose of confirming the Israeli withdrawal, the United Nations needs to identify a line to be adopted conforming to the internationally recognized boundaries of Lebanon ...”​*North Eastern Boundary*
> 
> ❖ GOLAN HEIGHTS LAW December 14, 1981 •
> ◈    This legislation, extending Israeli law to the area of the Golan Heights was adopted by the Knesset by a majority of 63 against 21.​
> These are the most current descriptions of the current boundaries.  I hope you see that this was proved before and that I did not "duck the issue."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel unilaterally annexed territory it captured by force from a people who had no military.
> 
> Refute away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure sure, Jordan, Egypt, Syria and the Jihad Army Of Holy War were all boyscout bands.
> Everything captured in the war except for the Sinai peninsula was vested with sovereignty of the Jewish nation under international law, decades before Israel liberated their rightful lands and capital.
> 
> Now is the part where You start hysterically dancing around.
Click to expand...

Now you are doing the usual dance.

When Britain left Palestine in 1948 they handed the administration of Palestine over to the UN. (UNPC) If it was Jewish territory, why didn't they just hand it over to the Jews?

Because it wasn't. None of it.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I can hardly believe you said that_*!*_
> 
> So, the last time this topic came up about defined borders, you said that same thing.  I recommend that you look at *Posting #1999 31 JAN '19* to see the same thing...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've copied and linked the documentation on the "defined International Boundaries" - many - many - times - and your claim simply does not come up to par.
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. You have never posted anything showing Israel's defined territory. It is well known, though, what territory Israel occupies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *Eastern Boundary*​
> ❖ The Jordan-Israel Peace Treaty was signed on October 26, 1994 →
> ◈  Article 3 - *International Boundary*​*Southern Boundary*
> 
> ❖ The Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, 26 March 1979
> ◈  Article II  The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel​*Northern Boundary*
> 
> ❖ The International Boundary between Israel and Lebanon  was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”, that “this line was reaffirmed in the Israeli-Lebanese General Armistice Agreement signed on 23 March 1949” and that “subsequently there were several modifications mutually agreed by Israel and Lebanon”.  Last Letter Agreement reaffirms the boundary in the *Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General •*
> ◈    See  A/54/914  S/2000/564  12 June 2000
> Paragraph 11 of this report states that “for the practical purpose of confirming the Israeli withdrawal, the United Nations needs to identify a line to be adopted conforming to the internationally recognized boundaries of Lebanon ...”​*North Eastern Boundary*
> 
> ❖ GOLAN HEIGHTS LAW December 14, 1981 •
> ◈    This legislation, extending Israeli law to the area of the Golan Heights was adopted by the Knesset by a majority of 63 against 21.​
> These are the most current descriptions of the current boundaries.  I hope you see that this was proved before and that I did not "duck the issue."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel unilaterally annexed territory it captured by force from a people who had no military.
> 
> Refute away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure sure, Jordan, Egypt, Syria and the Jihad Army Of Holy War were all boyscout bands.
> Everything captured in the war except for the Sinai peninsula was vested with sovereignty of the Jewish nation under international law, decades before Israel liberated their rightful lands and capital.
> 
> Now is the part where You start hysterically dancing around.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you are doing the usual dance.
> 
> When Britain left Palestine in 1948 they handed the administration of Palestine over to the UN. (UNPC) If it was Jewish territory, why didn't they just hand it over to the Jews?
> 
> Because it wasn't. None of it.
Click to expand...


Why didn’t they just hand it over the Arabs-Moslems masquerading as “Pal’istanians”?

Answer:  _________            <—— (fill in the blank Pfffffft Tinmore conspiracy theory)


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I often think you are attempting some philosphical trap in favor of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) position.  In this case, there are a couple of points which the HoAP do not want to bring into the light for debate for consideration.



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel unilaterally annexed territory it captured by force from a people who had no military.
> 
> Refute away.


*(COMMENT)*

Let's be specific, an not use ambiguous terms.  Under the International Criminal Court, any allegation which is ambiguous is ruled in favor of the accused.


			
				PART 3. GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF CRIMINAL LAW • Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court said:
			
		

> *Article 22
> Nullum crimen sine lege*
> 
> 1. A person shall not be criminally responsible under this Statute unless the conduct in question constitutes, at the time it takes place, a crime within the jurisdiction of the Court.
> 
> 2. The definition of a crime shall be strictly construed and shall not be extended by analogy. In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favor of the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.
> 
> 3. This article shall not affect the characterization of any conduct as criminal under international law independently of this Statute.




So, by all means, let's be specific.

For the purpose of the discussion,  for the matter before us - use the West Bank (WB) at the Occupied Territory (OT) as the example.

The WB was taken by Israel from the hand of sovereignty held by the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.  Why is this important? *(RHETORICAL)*  Simply because you imply that it was taken from the HoAP when you say:

◈  "from a people who had no military"​
◈  In 1967, when the WB was overrun by the Israeli Defense Force (IDF), the only force opposing the action was the Royal Jordanian Army (RJA)_(forerunner of the Arab Legion)_.  The IDF was in hot pursuit of RJA unit making a tactical withdrawal from the WB.  This is how the  State of Israel came to be in occupation.  The OT was that of the Hashemite Kingdom → NOT → that of the Arab Palestinian.

◈   The Unification of the Two Banks (as Jordan refers to it) by the Arab Palestinians own hand.



			
				The Unification of the Two Banks (as Jordan refers to it) said:
			
		

> _*The Tragedy of Palestine*_
> On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.





			
				Disengagement from the West Bank said:
			
		

> _*Severance of All Administrative and Legal Ties with the Occupied West Ban*_k
> on July 31 _(1988)_ King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. Accordingly, electoral districts were redrawn to represent East Bank constituencies only.


The importance of this two pieces of information is that at the time Jordan severed all ties with the WB, there was no other authority on the scene, at the time, with the capacity, EXCEPT the Occupying Forces of the IDF on behalf of Israel.   By default the, when the King of Jordan severed all ties, by default, the OT then came under the control of the Israelis _(Terra Tullius)_ "used in international law to describe territory that may be acquired by a state's occupation of it" - and -
severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank

*•  Terra nullius  •*
Terra nullius is a Latin expression deriving from Roman law meaning "nobody's land", which is used in international law to describe territory which has never been subject to the sovereignty of any state, or over which *any prior sovereign has expressly or implicitly relinquished sovereignty*.  _(Think HM the King of Jordan.)_​
It is important to note that there are multifaceted views on the status of the OT:

◈  Arab Palestinian Parliament (pre-1988) in Jordan considered the OT as Jordanian "Sovereign Territory" under the right of self-determination.

◈   And Israel considered the OT as "disputed territory."

◈  And last, but not least, the Arab Palestinians of the WB (post-1988) considered the OP their sovereign territory.​It is also important that you understand that I cannot dispute a broad claim such as:

◈  Israel unilaterally annexed territory.  It did do that.  But in certain cases, it was Jordanian territory that was politically abandoned.

◈  The OT "was captured by force:"  The territory was captured from the Jordanians and the Israelis and Jordanians settled that dispute in 1994.  The Arab Palestinians were not a party to the confrontation.

◈  Stated that:  "who had no military"  Of course the Arab Palestinians had no conventional forces in the 1967 War.  The Jordanians defended the territory as their sovereign  territory.​

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I often think you are attempting some philosphical trap in favor of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) position.  In this case, there are a couple of points which the HoAP do not want to bring into the light for debate for consideration.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel unilaterally annexed territory it captured by force from a people who had no military.
> 
> Refute away.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Let's be specific, an not use ambiguous terms.  Under the International Criminal Court, any allegation which is ambiguous is ruled in favor of the accused.
> 
> 
> 
> PART 3. GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF CRIMINAL LAW • Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Article 22
> Nullum crimen sine lege*
> 
> 1. A person shall not be criminally responsible under this Statute unless the conduct in question constitutes, at the time it takes place, a crime within the jurisdiction of the Court.
> 
> 2. The definition of a crime shall be strictly construed and shall not be extended by analogy. In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favor of the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.
> 
> 3. This article shall not affect the characterization of any conduct as criminal under international law independently of this Statute.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, by all means, let's be specific.
> 
> For the purpose of the discussion,  for the matter before us - use the West Bank (WB) at the Occupied Territory (OT) as the example.
> 
> The WB was taken by Israel from the hand of sovereignty held by the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.  Why is this important? *(RHETORICAL)*  Simply because you imply that it was taken from the HoAP when you say:
> 
> ◈  "from a people who had no military"​
> ◈  In 1967, when the WB was overrun by the Israeli Defense Force (IDF), the only force opposing the action was the Royal Jordanian Army (RJA)_(forerunner of the Arab Legion)_.  The IDF was in hot pursuit of RJA unit making a tactical withdrawal from the WB.  This is how the  State of Israel came to be in occupation.  The OT was that of the Hashemite Kingdom → NOT → that of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> ◈   The Unification of the Two Banks (as Jordan refers to it) by the Arab Palestinians own hand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Unification of the Two Banks (as Jordan refers to it) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*The Tragedy of Palestine*_
> On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disengagement from the West Bank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Severance of All Administrative and Legal Ties with the Occupied West Ban*_k
> on July 31 _(1988)_ King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. Accordingly, electoral districts were redrawn to represent East Bank constituencies only.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The importance of this two pieces of information is that at the time Jordan severed all ties with the WB, there was no other authority on the scene, at the time, with the capacity, EXCEPT the Occupying Forces of the IDF on behalf of Israel.   By default the, when the King of Jordan severed all ties, by default, the OT then came under the control of the Israelis _(Terra Tullius)_ "used in international law to describe territory that may be acquired by a state's occupation of it" - and -
> severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank
> 
> *•  Terra nullius  •*
> Terra nullius is a Latin expression deriving from Roman law meaning "nobody's land", which is used in international law to describe territory which has never been subject to the sovereignty of any state, or over which *any prior sovereign has expressly or implicitly relinquished sovereignty*.  _(Think HM the King of Jordan.)_​
> It is important to note that there are multifaceted views on the status of the OT:
> 
> ◈  Arab Palestinian Parliament (pre-1988) in Jordan considered the OT as Jordanian "Sovereign Territory" under the right of self-determination.
> 
> ◈   And Israel considered the OT as "disputed territory."
> 
> ◈  And last, but not least, the Arab Palestinians of the WB (post-1988) considered the OP their sovereign territory.​It is also important that you understand that I cannot dispute a broad claim such as:
> 
> ◈  Israel unilaterally annexed territory.  It did do that.  But in certain cases, it was Jordanian territory that was politically abandoned.
> 
> ◈  The OT "was captured by force:"  The territory was captured from the Jordanians and the Israelis and Jordanians settled that dispute in 1994.  The Arab Palestinians were not a party to the confrontation.
> 
> ◈  Stated that:  "who had no military"  Of course the Arab Palestinians had no conventional forces in the 1967 War.  The Jordanians defended the territory as their sovereign  territory.​
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I wasn't talking about 1967.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I often think you are attempting some philosphical trap in favor of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) position.  In this case, there are a couple of points which the HoAP do not want to bring into the light for debate for consideration.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel unilaterally annexed territory it captured by force from a people who had no military.
> 
> Refute away.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Let's be specific, an not use ambiguous terms.  Under the International Criminal Court, any allegation which is ambiguous is ruled in favor of the accused.
> 
> 
> 
> PART 3. GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF CRIMINAL LAW • Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Article 22
> Nullum crimen sine lege*
> 
> 1. A person shall not be criminally responsible under this Statute unless the conduct in question constitutes, at the time it takes place, a crime within the jurisdiction of the Court.
> 
> 2. The definition of a crime shall be strictly construed and shall not be extended by analogy. In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favor of the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.
> 
> 3. This article shall not affect the characterization of any conduct as criminal under international law independently of this Statute.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, by all means, let's be specific.
> 
> For the purpose of the discussion,  for the matter before us - use the West Bank (WB) at the Occupied Territory (OT) as the example.
> 
> The WB was taken by Israel from the hand of sovereignty held by the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.  Why is this important? *(RHETORICAL)*  Simply because you imply that it was taken from the HoAP when you say:
> 
> ◈  "from a people who had no military"​
> ◈  In 1967, when the WB was overrun by the Israeli Defense Force (IDF), the only force opposing the action was the Royal Jordanian Army (RJA)_(forerunner of the Arab Legion)_.  The IDF was in hot pursuit of RJA unit making a tactical withdrawal from the WB.  This is how the  State of Israel came to be in occupation.  The OT was that of the Hashemite Kingdom → NOT → that of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> ◈   The Unification of the Two Banks (as Jordan refers to it) by the Arab Palestinians own hand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Unification of the Two Banks (as Jordan refers to it) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*The Tragedy of Palestine*_
> On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disengagement from the West Bank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Severance of All Administrative and Legal Ties with the Occupied West Ban*_k
> on July 31 _(1988)_ King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. Accordingly, electoral districts were redrawn to represent East Bank constituencies only.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The importance of this two pieces of information is that at the time Jordan severed all ties with the WB, there was no other authority on the scene, at the time, with the capacity, EXCEPT the Occupying Forces of the IDF on behalf of Israel.   By default the, when the King of Jordan severed all ties, by default, the OT then came under the control of the Israelis _(Terra Tullius)_ "used in international law to describe territory that may be acquired by a state's occupation of it" - and -
> severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank
> 
> *•  Terra nullius  •*
> Terra nullius is a Latin expression deriving from Roman law meaning "nobody's land", which is used in international law to describe territory which has never been subject to the sovereignty of any state, or over which *any prior sovereign has expressly or implicitly relinquished sovereignty*.  _(Think HM the King of Jordan.)_​
> It is important to note that there are multifaceted views on the status of the OT:
> 
> ◈  Arab Palestinian Parliament (pre-1988) in Jordan considered the OT as Jordanian "Sovereign Territory" under the right of self-determination.
> 
> ◈   And Israel considered the OT as "disputed territory."
> 
> ◈  And last, but not least, the Arab Palestinians of the WB (post-1988) considered the OP their sovereign territory.​It is also important that you understand that I cannot dispute a broad claim such as:
> 
> ◈  Israel unilaterally annexed territory.  It did do that.  But in certain cases, it was Jordanian territory that was politically abandoned.
> 
> ◈  The OT "was captured by force:"  The territory was captured from the Jordanians and the Israelis and Jordanians settled that dispute in 1994.  The Arab Palestinians were not a party to the confrontation.
> 
> ◈  Stated that:  "who had no military"  Of course the Arab Palestinians had no conventional forces in the 1967 War.  The Jordanians defended the territory as their sovereign  territory.​
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wasn't talking about 1967.
Click to expand...


I wasn’t the only one who noted your habit of Islamo-tap dancing around issues you don’t understand.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ How many of these are members of Hamas or the other groups?]

Hamas terrorists attack IDF soldiers on Gaza border - watch


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I can hardly believe you said that_*!*_
> 
> So, the last time this topic came up about defined borders, you said that same thing.  I recommend that you look at *Posting #1999 31 JAN '19* to see the same thing...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've copied and linked the documentation on the "defined International Boundaries" - many - many - times - and your claim simply does not come up to par.
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. You have never posted anything showing Israel's defined territory. It is well known, though, what territory Israel occupies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *Eastern Boundary*​
> ❖ The Jordan-Israel Peace Treaty was signed on October 26, 1994 →
> ◈  Article 3 - *International Boundary*​*Southern Boundary*
> 
> ❖ The Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, 26 March 1979
> ◈  Article II  The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel​*Northern Boundary*
> 
> ❖ The International Boundary between Israel and Lebanon  was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”, that “this line was reaffirmed in the Israeli-Lebanese General Armistice Agreement signed on 23 March 1949” and that “subsequently there were several modifications mutually agreed by Israel and Lebanon”.  Last Letter Agreement reaffirms the boundary in the *Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General •*
> ◈    See  A/54/914  S/2000/564  12 June 2000
> Paragraph 11 of this report states that “for the practical purpose of confirming the Israeli withdrawal, the United Nations needs to identify a line to be adopted conforming to the internationally recognized boundaries of Lebanon ...”​*North Eastern Boundary*
> 
> ❖ GOLAN HEIGHTS LAW December 14, 1981 •
> ◈    This legislation, extending Israeli law to the area of the Golan Heights was adopted by the Knesset by a majority of 63 against 21.​
> These are the most current descriptions of the current boundaries.  I hope you see that this was proved before and that I did not "duck the issue."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel unilaterally annexed territory it captured by force from a people who had no military.
> 
> Refute away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure sure, Jordan, Egypt, Syria and the Jihad Army Of Holy War were all boyscout bands.
> Everything captured in the war except for the Sinai peninsula was vested with sovereignty of the Jewish nation under international law, decades before Israel liberated their rightful lands and capital.
> 
> Now is the part where You start hysterically dancing around.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you are doing the usual dance.
> 
> When Britain left Palestine in 1948 they handed the administration of Palestine over to the UN. (UNPC) If it was Jewish territory, why didn't they just hand it over to the Jews?
> 
> Because it wasn't. None of it.
Click to expand...


This is circular logic.
Both  UN and Britain were bound by international law which vested sovereignty with the Jewish nation. 
The flawed manner in which the trustees dealt with the obligation doesn't change the law or the fact that there was no other nation mentioned under international as the legal beneficiary of self-determination in the land that was assigned to Mandatory Palestine.

All of the land is Jewish territory, because it was defined so under international law, all of it.

Q. Was any other nation mentioned?


----------



## Hollie

It appears that some Islamic terrorist beat-down was delivered by the IDF to a number of misbehaving gee-had wannabes. 

IDF attacks Hamas positions after soldier injured amid Gaza border night clashes

*IDF attacks Hamas positions after soldier injured amid Gaza border night clashes*
02/17/2019







_Palestinian protesters carry tyres as smoke billows from burning tyres at the Israel-Gaza border, east of Gaza city, on October 12, 2018_
*
SAID KHATIB / AFP
19 Palestinians were also injured during the protests, the Gaza health ministry reported*
The Israeli army attacked two Hamas positions in the Gaza Strip on Sunday night after an IDF soldier was injured amid clashes along the volatile border.

The Israeli soldier was said to have been hit by an improvised explosive thrown by Palestinians during the protests, the IDF said in a statement.

Dozens of Palestinians were said to have gathered along the border where they “hurled explosive devices and rolled burning tires at IDF soldiers along the security fence,” the statement continued.

According to the Hamas-run Health Ministry, 19 Palestinians were also injured during the protests east of Jabaliya and were said to have suffered varying injuries.




And in other happy-fun Islamic terrorist news, the two competing Islamic terrorist mini-caliphates are having a bit of disagreement over which group of angry islamists is going to control some islamo-turf.

It's a bit like watching the Crips and the Bloods fighting a turf war and hoping both sides score a big body count.
_

Only hours before the protests erupted, reports emerged that Hamas had taken control of the main goods Kerem Shalom crossing, in turn expelling the Palestinian Authority employees from the border._

_Security forces "put in place procedures dictated by security imperatives", Gaza's interior ministry spokesman Iyad al-Bozum said in a statement. "Palestinian Authority employees at the crossing have refused to cooperate on these procedures for a few days and today we were surprised by their departure," he added._


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I can hardly believe you said that_*!*_
> 
> So, the last time this topic came up about defined borders, you said that same thing.  I recommend that you look at *Posting #1999 31 JAN '19* to see the same thing...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> Not so. You have never posted anything showing Israel's defined territory. It is well known, though, what territory Israel occupies.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *Eastern Boundary*​
> ❖ The Jordan-Israel Peace Treaty was signed on October 26, 1994 →
> ◈  Article 3 - *International Boundary*​*Southern Boundary*
> 
> ❖ The Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, 26 March 1979
> ◈  Article II  The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel​*Northern Boundary*
> 
> ❖ The International Boundary between Israel and Lebanon  was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”, that “this line was reaffirmed in the Israeli-Lebanese General Armistice Agreement signed on 23 March 1949” and that “subsequently there were several modifications mutually agreed by Israel and Lebanon”.  Last Letter Agreement reaffirms the boundary in the *Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General •*
> ◈    See  A/54/914  S/2000/564  12 June 2000
> Paragraph 11 of this report states that “for the practical purpose of confirming the Israeli withdrawal, the United Nations needs to identify a line to be adopted conforming to the internationally recognized boundaries of Lebanon ...”​*North Eastern Boundary*
> 
> ❖ GOLAN HEIGHTS LAW December 14, 1981 •
> ◈    This legislation, extending Israeli law to the area of the Golan Heights was adopted by the Knesset by a majority of 63 against 21.​
> These are the most current descriptions of the current boundaries.  I hope you see that this was proved before and that I did not "duck the issue."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel unilaterally annexed territory it captured by force from a people who had no military.
> 
> Refute away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure sure, Jordan, Egypt, Syria and the Jihad Army Of Holy War were all boyscout bands.
> Everything captured in the war except for the Sinai peninsula was vested with sovereignty of the Jewish nation under international law, decades before Israel liberated their rightful lands and capital.
> 
> Now is the part where You start hysterically dancing around.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you are doing the usual dance.
> 
> When Britain left Palestine in 1948 they handed the administration of Palestine over to the UN. (UNPC) If it was Jewish territory, why didn't they just hand it over to the Jews?
> 
> Because it wasn't. None of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is circular logic.
> Both  UN and Britain were bound by international law which vested sovereignty with the Jewish nation.
> The flawed manner in which the trustees dealt with the obligation doesn't change the law or the fact that there was no other nation mentioned under international as the legal beneficiary of self-determination in the land that was assigned to Mandatory Palestine.
> 
> All of the land is Jewish territory, because it was defined so under international law, all of it.
> 
> Q. Was any other nation mentioned?
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Essentially, the UNPC did exactly that*!*



P F Tinmore said:


> Now you are doing the usual dance.
> 
> When Britain left Palestine in 1948 they handed the administration of Palestine over to the UN. (UNPC) If it was Jewish territory, why didn't they just hand it over to the Jews?
> 
> Because it wasn't. None of it.


*(COMMENT)*

Because the policy under the "Steps Preparatory to Independence" adopted by the General Assembly called for:

4. The Commission, after consultation with the democratic parties and other public organizations of The Arab and Jewish States, shall select and establish in each State as rapidly as possible a Provisional Council of Government. *The activities of both the Arab and Jewish Provisional Councils of Government shall be carried out under the general direction of the Commission.*​
10. The Constituent Assembly of each State shall draft a democratic constitution for its State and choose a provisional government to succeed the Provisional Council of Government appointed by the Commission. The constitutions of the States shall embody chapters 1 and 2 of the Declaration provided for in section C below and include inter alia provisions for:

 (a) ...

 (b) Settling all international disputes in which the State may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered;

 (c) Accepting the obligation of the State to refrain in its international relations *from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity of political independence of any State*, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations;

 (d) ...

 (e) ...​
Your objection is merely an extension of the Arab Leagues decision not to accept the Jewish State.  The Invasion by the Arab League States essentially became the unintentional tool for the expansion of the Jewish State.  And to this day, the "official" position of the Palestine Liberation Organization, the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated, is that:

✧  The 1967 border, which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line along with all legal modification thereto up to June 4th 1967,  is the *internationally-recognized border* between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine.​
This is an expansion of Israeli Territory was made possible by the invasion of the Arab League Forces, and the PLO claim the original Armistice Lines as the "internationally recognized border" → which is in dispute at this time.  Many things have changed since the Armistice.  And the Treaties made by the parties in the conflict _(including the Six Day and Yom Kipper Wars)_ changed the boundaries _(at least those pertaining to the West Bank and Gaza Strip)_.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Essentially, the UNPC did exactly that*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are doing the usual dance.
> 
> When Britain left Palestine in 1948 they handed the administration of Palestine over to the UN. (UNPC) If it was Jewish territory, why didn't they just hand it over to the Jews?
> 
> Because it wasn't. None of it.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Because the policy under the "Steps Preparatory to Independence" adopted by the General Assembly called for:
> 
> 4. The Commission, after consultation with the democratic parties and other public organizations of The Arab and Jewish States, shall select and establish in each State as rapidly as possible a Provisional Council of Government. *The activities of both the Arab and Jewish Provisional Councils of Government shall be carried out under the general direction of the Commission.*​
> 10. The Constituent Assembly of each State shall draft a democratic constitution for its State and choose a provisional government to succeed the Provisional Council of Government appointed by the Commission. The constitutions of the States shall embody chapters 1 and 2 of the Declaration provided for in section C below and include inter alia provisions for:
> 
> (a) ...
> 
> (b) Settling all international disputes in which the State may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered;
> 
> (c) Accepting the obligation of the State to refrain in its international relations *from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity of political independence of any State*, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations;
> 
> (d) ...
> 
> (e) ...​
> Your objection is merely an extension of the Arab Leagues decision not to accept the Jewish State.  The Invasion by the Arab League States essentially became the unintentional tool for the expansion of the Jewish State.  And to this day, the "official" position of the Palestine Liberation Organization, the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated, is that:
> 
> ✧  The 1967 border, which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line along with all legal modification thereto up to June 4th 1967,  is the *internationally-recognized border* between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine.​
> This is an expansion of Israeli Territory was made possible by the invasion of the Arab League Forces, and the PLO claim the original Armistice Lines as the "internationally recognized border" → which is in dispute at this time.  Many things have changed since the Armistice.  And the Treaties made by the parties in the conflict _(including the Six Day and Yom Kipper Wars)_ changed the boundaries _(at least those pertaining to the West Bank and Gaza Strip)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

There was no resolution 181 and the 1948 war had no affect on Palestinian territory.


----------



## Sixties Fan

For first time in months, Gaza balloons spark fire in south


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

All I can say is...  WOW.



P F Tinmore said:


> There was no resolution 181 and the 1948 war had no affect on Palestinian territory.


*(COMMENT)*






​As you can see in the Annotated First Page Extract _(supra)_ from the Resolution that the Ramallah Government is so proud of, recalls its General Assembly Resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947.   It is also embedded and acknowledged in the Palestinian Declaration of Independence.



> By virtue of the natural, historical and legal right of the Palestinian Arab people to its homeland, Palestine, and of the sacrifices of its succeeding generations in defense of the freedom and independence of that homeland,
> 
> *Pursuant to the resolutions of the Arab Summit Conferences and on the basis of the international legitimacy embodied in the resolutions of the United Nations since 1947, and*
> 
> Through the exercise by the Palestinian Arab people of its right to self-determination, political independence, and sovereignty over its territory:
> 
> The Palestine National Council hereby declares, in the Name of God and on behalf of the Palestinian Arab people, the *establishment of the State of Palestine* in the land of Palestine with its capital at Jerusalem.



In terms of the claim, you make that the "1948 war had no effect on Palestinian territory" I can only point out that the *PLO-NAD* says something different.



​This discussion illuminates the central problem of the Arab Palestine.   They simply don't agree among themselves as to who is the government, who is the national leader, or what it means when they say the State of Palestine.  If you cannot agree upon that, then on what basis can you say that you are a legitimate state?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Did anyone forget to mark their calendars? There was an anniversary (of sorts) last Friday. The Arab-Moslem border riots and failed gee-had intended to breach the Israeli border has now droned on for 47 weeks. 

Among the dead and injured Arabs-Moslems who gave up life and limb in the hopes of slaughtering Israeli citizens is the abysmal failure of Arabs-Moslems to accomplish anything but creating dead and injured Arabs- Moslems.

*47th Friday of the Great March of Return in Gaza.

47th Friday of the Great March of Return in Gaza
*
Since Palestinians in Gaza began holding the rallies in March of last year, more than 250 protesters have been killed — and thousands more injured — by Israeli army gunfire.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> All I can say is...  WOW.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no resolution 181 and the 1948 war had no affect on Palestinian territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> View attachment 246737
> 
> ​As you can see in the Annotated First Page Extract _(supra)_ from the Resolution that the Ramallah Government is so proud of, recalls its General Assembly Resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947.   It is also embedded and acknowledged in the Palestinian Declaration of Independence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By virtue of the natural, historical and legal right of the Palestinian Arab people to its homeland, Palestine, and of the sacrifices of its succeeding generations in defense of the freedom and independence of that homeland,
> 
> *Pursuant to the resolutions of the Arab Summit Conferences and on the basis of the international legitimacy embodied in the resolutions of the United Nations since 1947, and*
> 
> Through the exercise by the Palestinian Arab people of its right to self-determination, political independence, and sovereignty over its territory:
> 
> The Palestine National Council hereby declares, in the Name of God and on behalf of the Palestinian Arab people, the *establishment of the State of Palestine* in the land of Palestine with its capital at Jerusalem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In terms of the claim, you make that the "1948 war had no effect on Palestinian territory" I can only point out that the *PLO-NAD* says something different.
> 
> View attachment 246739​This discussion illuminates the central problem of the Arab Palestine.   They simply don't agree among themselves as to who is the government, who is the national leader, or what it means when they say the State of Palestine.  If you cannot agree upon that, then on what basis can you say that you are a legitimate state?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

So, what in all of this refutes my posts?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> All I can say is...  WOW.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no resolution 181 and the 1948 war had no affect on Palestinian territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> View attachment 246737
> 
> ​As you can see in the Annotated First Page Extract _(supra)_ from the Resolution that the Ramallah Government is so proud of, recalls its General Assembly Resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947.   It is also embedded and acknowledged in the Palestinian Declaration of Independence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By virtue of the natural, historical and legal right of the Palestinian Arab people to its homeland, Palestine, and of the sacrifices of its succeeding generations in defense of the freedom and independence of that homeland,
> 
> *Pursuant to the resolutions of the Arab Summit Conferences and on the basis of the international legitimacy embodied in the resolutions of the United Nations since 1947, and*
> 
> Through the exercise by the Palestinian Arab people of its right to self-determination, political independence, and sovereignty over its territory:
> 
> The Palestine National Council hereby declares, in the Name of God and on behalf of the Palestinian Arab people, the *establishment of the State of Palestine* in the land of Palestine with its capital at Jerusalem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In terms of the claim, you make that the "1948 war had no effect on Palestinian territory" I can only point out that the *PLO-NAD* says something different.
> 
> View attachment 246739​This discussion illuminates the central problem of the Arab Palestine.   They simply don't agree among themselves as to who is the government, who is the national leader, or what it means when they say the State of Palestine.  If you cannot agree upon that, then on what basis can you say that you are a legitimate state?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, what in all of this refutes my posts?
Click to expand...


All in that which refutes your nonsensical post.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border​⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I could not have been more explicit in my answer if I had drawn pictures.  Oh, wait!  I think I did...

I think you are playing some sort of game here.

*(YOUR QUESTION)*


P F Tinmore said:


> So, what in all of this refutes my posts?



*(EXCERPT FROM YOUR CITED POSTING)*


P F Tinmore said:


> There was no resolution 181 and the 1948 war had no affect on Palestinian territory.



•  ISSUE #1:  YOU SAID:  There was no resolution 181:

◈  Not only did I address and refute the issue, I demonstrated were it was used by the "sole representative of the Palestinians" and where it was used by the UN in the decision to accord to Palestine non-member observer State status.​
•  ISSUE #2:  YOU SAID:  The 1948 war had no affect on Palestinian territory.

◈ Not only did I address and refute the issue, but I gave an example of how the PLO acknowledge the war, and use the Armistice Demarcation as a reference point.​
Now I could have thrown-in the 1999 Letter dated 25 March 1999 from the Permanent Observer of Palestine to the UN Secretary-General (A/53/879 S/1999/334 25 March 1999), but I thought that would be overkill _(salt in the wound kind of thing)_. 

◈   For the Palestinian side, and since the strategic decision to forge a peace on the basis of coexistence, resolution 181 (II) has become acceptable.​
I have noticed that you play "ostrich" when it is factually a matter of record _(head in the sand kind of thing)_.  But then, you are not the only one that does that as a pro-Arab Palestinian strategy. 

Most Respectfully,
R

I*NFORMATIONAL ANNEX:*


			
				UN Historical Document (2008) The Question of Palestine and the United Nations said:
			
		

> At its second regular session, after an intense two-month-long debate, the General Assembly, on 29 November 1947, adopted resolution 181 (II), approving with minor changes the Plan of Partition with Economic Union as proposed by the majority in the Special Committee on Palestine. The partition plan, a detailed four-part document attached to the resolution, provided for the termination of the Mandate, the progressive withdrawal of British armed forces and the delineation of boundaries between the two States and Jerusalem.  The plan included:
> 
> •  The creation of the Arab and Jewish States, not later than 1 October 1948.
> 
> •  Division of Palestine into eight parts: three were allotted to the Arab State ʤand three to the Jewish State, with the town of Jaffa forming an Arab enclave within Jewish territory, and
> 
> •  An international regime for Jerusalem, the eighth division, to be administered by the United Nations Trusteeship Council.​


​*SOURCE:*  Excerpt:  Page 7 • *The Question of Palestine and the United Nations *(DPI2499.pdf)  •
​


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border​⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I could not have been more explicit in my answer if I had drawn pictures.  Oh, wait!  I think I did...
> 
> I think you are playing some sort of game here.
> 
> *(YOUR QUESTION)*
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what in all of this refutes my posts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(EXCERPT FROM YOUR CITED POSTING)*
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no resolution 181 and the 1948 war had no affect on Palestinian territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> •  ISSUE #1:  YOU SAID:  There was no resolution 181:
> 
> ◈  Not only did I address and refute the issue, I demonstrated were it was used by the "sole representative of the Palestinians" and where it was used by the UN in the decision to accord to Palestine non-member observer State status.​
> •  ISSUE #2:  YOU SAID:  The 1948 war had no affect on Palestinian territory.
> 
> ◈ Not only did I address and refute the issue, but I gave an example of how the PLO acknowledge the war, and use the Armistice Demarcation as a reference point.​
> Now I could have thrown-in the 1999 Letter dated 25 March 1999 from the Permanent Observer of Palestine to the UN Secretary-General (A/53/879 S/1999/334 25 March 1999), but I thought that would be overkill _(salt in the wound kind of thing)_.
> 
> ◈   For the Palestinian side, and since the strategic decision to forge a peace on the basis of coexistence, resolution 181 (II) has become acceptable.​
> I have noticed that you play "ostrich" when it is factually a matter of record _(head in the sand kind of thing)_.  But then, you are not the only one that does that as a pro-Arab Palestinian strategy.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> I*NFORMATIONAL ANNEX:*
> 
> 
> 
> UN Historical Document (2008) The Question of Palestine and the United Nations said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At its second regular session, after an intense two-month-long debate, the General Assembly, on 29 November 1947, adopted resolution 181 (II), approving with minor changes the Plan of Partition with Economic Union as proposed by the majority in the Special Committee on Palestine. The partition plan, a detailed four-part document attached to the resolution, provided for the termination of the Mandate, the progressive withdrawal of British armed forces and the delineation of boundaries between the two States and Jerusalem.  The plan included:
> 
> •  The creation of the Arab and Jewish States, not later than 1 October 1948.
> 
> •  Division of Palestine into eight parts: three were allotted to the Arab State ʤand three to the Jewish State, with the town of Jaffa forming an Arab enclave within Jewish territory, and
> 
> •  An international regime for Jerusalem, the eighth division, to be administered by the United Nations Trusteeship Council.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​*SOURCE:*  Excerpt:  Page 7 • *The Question of Palestine and the United Nations *(DPI2499.pdf)  •
> ​
Click to expand...

So, Israel claims to have accepted Resolution 181 (And referenced it in its declaration of independence.) then claims it to be null and void since the Palestinians rejected it. The UN still claims it to be valid. The PLO now claims to recognize Resolution 181.

Does this mean that the Borders between Israel and Palestine are those proposed in Resolution 181?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border​⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I could not have been more explicit in my answer if I had drawn pictures.  Oh, wait!  I think I did...
> 
> I think you are playing some sort of game here.
> 
> *(YOUR QUESTION)*
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what in all of this refutes my posts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(EXCERPT FROM YOUR CITED POSTING)*
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no resolution 181 and the 1948 war had no affect on Palestinian territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> •  ISSUE #1:  YOU SAID:  There was no resolution 181:
> 
> ◈  Not only did I address and refute the issue, I demonstrated were it was used by the "sole representative of the Palestinians" and where it was used by the UN in the decision to accord to Palestine non-member observer State status.​
> •  ISSUE #2:  YOU SAID:  The 1948 war had no affect on Palestinian territory.
> 
> ◈ Not only did I address and refute the issue, but I gave an example of how the PLO acknowledge the war, and use the Armistice Demarcation as a reference point.​
> Now I could have thrown-in the 1999 Letter dated 25 March 1999 from the Permanent Observer of Palestine to the UN Secretary-General (A/53/879 S/1999/334 25 March 1999), but I thought that would be overkill _(salt in the wound kind of thing)_.
> 
> ◈   For the Palestinian side, and since the strategic decision to forge a peace on the basis of coexistence, resolution 181 (II) has become acceptable.​
> I have noticed that you play "ostrich" when it is factually a matter of record _(head in the sand kind of thing)_.  But then, you are not the only one that does that as a pro-Arab Palestinian strategy.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> I*NFORMATIONAL ANNEX:*
> 
> 
> 
> UN Historical Document (2008) The Question of Palestine and the United Nations said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At its second regular session, after an intense two-month-long debate, the General Assembly, on 29 November 1947, adopted resolution 181 (II), approving with minor changes the Plan of Partition with Economic Union as proposed by the majority in the Special Committee on Palestine. The partition plan, a detailed four-part document attached to the resolution, provided for the termination of the Mandate, the progressive withdrawal of British armed forces and the delineation of boundaries between the two States and Jerusalem.  The plan included:
> 
> •  The creation of the Arab and Jewish States, not later than 1 October 1948.
> 
> •  Division of Palestine into eight parts: three were allotted to the Arab State ʤand three to the Jewish State, with the town of Jaffa forming an Arab enclave within Jewish territory, and
> 
> •  An international regime for Jerusalem, the eighth division, to be administered by the United Nations Trusteeship Council.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​*SOURCE:*  Excerpt:  Page 7 • *The Question of Palestine and the United Nations *(DPI2499.pdf)  •
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, Israel claims to have accepted Resolution 181 (And referenced it in its declaration of independence.) then claims it to be null and void since the Palestinians rejected it. The UN still claims it to be valid. The PLO now claims to recognize Resolution 181.
> 
> Does this mean that the Borders between Israel and Palestine are those proposed in Resolution 181?
Click to expand...


The PLO retroactively accepts Resolution 181? A typical Arab-Moslem absurdity. 

Wht is this this thing you call a “PLO”? Did Arabs-Moslems dig up Arafat’s grave and give him a voice?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I went back and re-read my Posting #2070 of Yesterday at 6:24 PM.  I don't think I wrote anything that could be construed as stating what "Israel" accepts or does not accept.

As far as Israel referencing A/RES/181 (II) in their announcement of the Declaration of Independence (14/15 May 1948)ª, I can say that it did reference Parts of the Resolution of 29 November 1948.  Israel made three statements to that effect in May 1948. 



			
				Israel Statement by the Provisional Government in the announcement of a Declaration of Independence (14/15 May 1948) said:
			
		

> ✦  APPLIED TO UNITED NATIONS PALESTINE COMMISSION FOR RECOGNITION AS PROVISIONAL COUNCIL GOVERNMENT UNDER PART ONE B FOUR OF RESOLUTION OF GENERAL ASSEMBLY ON NOVEMBER 29TH 1947
> 
> ✦  STATE OF ISRAEL WILL BE READY COOPERATE WITH ORGANS AND REPRESENTATIVES OF UNITED NATIONS IN IMPLEMENTATION OF RESOLUTION OF ASSEMBLY OF NOVEMBER 29 1947 AND WILL TAKE STEPS TO BRING ABOUT ECONOMIC UNION OVER WHOLE OF PALESTINE.
> 
> ✦  STATE OF ISRAEL ITS READINESS TO SIGN DECLARATION AND UNDERTAKING PROVIDED FOR RESPECTIVELY IN PART ONE C AND PART ONE D OF RESOLUTION.



"I" made no such statement, as you sound out here, to the effect that Israel → "claims it to be null and void since the Palestinians rejected it."

Footnote
-----------------------------
ª  The "announcement" by cablegram of the Declaration of Independence, and the actual Declaration of Independence are two different Documents.  


P F Tinmore said:


> ]So, Israel claims to have accepted Resolution 181 (And referenced it in its declaration of independence.) then claims it to be null and void since the Palestinians rejected it. The UN still claims it to be valid. The PLO now claims to recognize Resolution 181.


*(COMMENT)*

A political soundbite ("null and void") is NOT a complete answer to any complex question.

The discussion about the 1999 statement by  Ariel Sharon, then the Israeli Foreign Minister, that Resolution 181 is null and void due to the [Historical] circumstances... is a pro-Arab Palestinian argument that a single statement or a piece of paper can overturn reality.  By 1999, → the 1948 Arab Invasion of Israel was fought, → the Six-Day War was fought, → the sneak attack on Yo Kipper 1973 was fought off, and the Oslo Accords were signed.  There can be no doubt that → history and time _(a half-century covering the span of time between 1948 and 1999)_ had an impact on the utility of A/RES/181 (II).  The pro-Arab Palestinians would gladly take the boundaries outlined by A/RES/181 (II) if they could get it.  It would almost double the land area of the territories in dispute.



P F Tinmore said:


> ]Does this mean that the Borders between Israel and Palestine are those proposed in Resolution 181?


*(COMMENT)*

Hell No*!*

The "borders" as outlined in Part II • Boundaries, of A/RES/181(II), have been overtaken by even, having been modified by various wars, international agreements, and treaties.  As far as the West Bank and the Gaza Strip are concerned, the Internationally Recognized boundaries of Israeli Sovereignty are where Israel establishes and enforces the boundary.

Without regard to the political rhetoric in the UN and elsewhere, every country that accepts an Israeli Passport, every country that observes restriction on Israeli sovereign airspace, every person that goes through an Israeli Immigration Station control checkpoint recognizes the borders of Israel.  And as the concept is spelled-out in the Montevideo Convention:  → "Recognition is unconditional and irrevocable" _(once given cannot be taken back)_.

Can your question be answered in a soundbite?  No!

*(EPILOG)*

I took great care in exactly answering your questions with some detail and reference.  So don't use that old: "what part of that refutes your post?" as a comeback.

Since the time that Arab Higher Committee has taken the stance that: "“ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE IS DETERMINED PERSIST IN REJECTION PARTITION, AND IN REFUSAL RECOGNIZE UNO RESOLUTION THIS RESPECT AND ANYTHING DERIVING THEREFROM" → much has changed.

The Arab Palestinians have formed a quasi-Government that directly supports of violence by non-state actors that either:

◈  Supports a network of Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter.   Are engaged in activities which intentionally or are indirectly set in motion to assualt civilians.  (Palestine Today)

.................................................................OR

◈  Expresses, incites, finances or encourages acts directed against a State and intended or calculated to create an atmosphere of fear in the minds of constituents of another state; directs acts against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State.  (Palestine Today)

.................................................................OR

◈  Establishes a regime of unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place. (Palestine Today)
​Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I went back and re-read my Posting #2070 of Yesterday at 6:24 PM.  I don't think I wrote anything that could be construed as stating what "Israel" accepts or does not accept.
> 
> As far as Israel referencing A/RES/181 (II) in their announcement of the Declaration of Independence (14/15 May 1948)ª, I can say that it did reference Parts of the Resolution of 29 November 1948.  Israel made three statements to that effect in May 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel Statement by the Provisional Government in the announcement of a Declaration of Independence (14/15 May 1948) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ✦  APPLIED TO UNITED NATIONS PALESTINE COMMISSION FOR RECOGNITION AS PROVISIONAL COUNCIL GOVERNMENT UNDER PART ONE B FOUR OF RESOLUTION OF GENERAL ASSEMBLY ON NOVEMBER 29TH 1947
> 
> ✦  STATE OF ISRAEL WILL BE READY COOPERATE WITH ORGANS AND REPRESENTATIVES OF UNITED NATIONS IN IMPLEMENTATION OF RESOLUTION OF ASSEMBLY OF NOVEMBER 29 1947 AND WILL TAKE STEPS TO BRING ABOUT ECONOMIC UNION OVER WHOLE OF PALESTINE.
> 
> ✦  STATE OF ISRAEL ITS READINESS TO SIGN DECLARATION AND UNDERTAKING PROVIDED FOR RESPECTIVELY IN PART ONE C AND PART ONE D OF RESOLUTION.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "I" made no such statement, as you sound out here, to the effect that Israel → "claims it to be null and void since the Palestinians rejected it."
> 
> Footnote
> -----------------------------
> ª  The "announcement" by cablegram of the Declaration of Independence, and the actual Declaration of Independence are two different Documents.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ]So, Israel claims to have accepted Resolution 181 (And referenced it in its declaration of independence.) then claims it to be null and void since the Palestinians rejected it. The UN still claims it to be valid. The PLO now claims to recognize Resolution 181.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> A political soundbite ("null and void") is NOT a complete answer to any complex question.
> 
> The discussion about the 1999 statement by  Ariel Sharon, then the Israeli Foreign Minister, that Resolution 181 is null and void due to the [Historical] circumstances... is a pro-Arab Palestinian argument that a single statement or a piece of paper can overturn reality.  By 1999, → the 1948 Arab Invasion of Israel was fought, → the Six-Day War was fought, → the sneak attack on Yo Kipper 1973 was fought off, and the Oslo Accords were signed.  There can be no doubt that → history and time _(a half-century covering the span of time between 1948 and 1999)_ had an impact on the utility of A/RES/181 (II).  The pro-Arab Palestinians would gladly take the boundaries outlined by A/RES/181 (II) if they could get it.  It would almost double the land area of the territories in dispute.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ]Does this mean that the Borders between Israel and Palestine are those proposed in Resolution 181?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Hell No*!*
> 
> The "borders" as outlined in Part II • Boundaries, of A/RES/181(II), have been overtaken by even, having been modified by various wars, international agreements, and treaties.  As far as the West Bank and the Gaza Strip are concerned, the Internationally Recognized boundaries of Israeli Sovereignty are where Israel establishes and enforces the boundary.
> 
> Without regard to the political rhetoric in the UN and elsewhere, every country that accepts an Israeli Passport, every country that observes restriction on Israeli sovereign airspace, every person that goes through an Israeli Immigration Station control checkpoint recognizes the borders of Israel.  And as the concept is spelled-out in the Montevideo Convention:  → "Recognition is unconditional and irrevocable" _(once given cannot be taken back)_.
> 
> Can your question be answered in a soundbite?  No!
> 
> *(EPILOG)*
> 
> I took great care in exactly answering your questions with some detail and reference.  So don't use that old: "what part of that refutes your post?" as a comeback.
> 
> Since the time that Arab Higher Committee has taken the stance that: "“ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE IS DETERMINED PERSIST IN REJECTION PARTITION, AND IN REFUSAL RECOGNIZE UNO RESOLUTION THIS RESPECT AND ANYTHING DERIVING THEREFROM" → much has changed.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have formed a quasi-Government that directly supports of violence by non-state actors that either:
> 
> ◈  Supports a network of Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter.   Are engaged in activities which intentionally or are indirectly set in motion to assualt civilians.  (Palestine Today)
> 
> .................................................................OR
> 
> ◈  Expresses, incites, finances or encourages acts directed against a State and intended or calculated to create an atmosphere of fear in the minds of constituents of another state; directs acts against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State.  (Palestine Today)
> 
> .................................................................OR
> 
> ◈  Establishes a regime of unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place. (Palestine Today)
> ​Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The "borders" as outlined in Part II • Boundaries, of A/RES/181(II), have been overtaken by even, having been modified by various wars, international agreements, and treaties.


Did the Palestinians lose any wars or sign any of these treaties. Or, was it all done by external interference?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a loaded question.   It is like asking:  “When Did You Stop Beating Your Wife?”  Up and until The Seventh Arab Summit Conference _(Rabat, Morocco 28 October 1974)_ there was no political body called "Palestinians."   It was a regional colloquialism used by certain Arabs to distinguish themselves from other Arabs.  Up until The Seventh Arab Summit, the Arab League through the Arab High Committee (AHC) represented those that called themselves "Palestinians."

So your question is only valid from a time beginning after 28 October 1974. when the Arab League established independent national authority (INA).  The Arab League officially recognized the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.  

As a result out of the proceedings of The Seventh Arab Summit the UN acknowledges the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988; see A/RES/43/177 Question of Palestine 15 December 1988.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "borders" as outlined in Part II • Boundaries, of A/RES/181(II), have been overtaken by even, having been modified by various wars, international agreements, and treaties.
> 
> 
> 
> Did the Palestinians lose any wars or sign any of these treaties. Or, was it all done by external interference?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

 The Israeli War of Independence (1948) was fought and the four Principle Parties (Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon and Syria) for the Arab League came to four separate agreements as outlined in my Posting of #2054.

Similarly, an independent national authority (INA) for the Palestinians did not exist during the period of the 1967 Six-Day War, or the 1973 Yom Kipper War.  That would have made participation and relevance impossible.  After 1974 when the Arab League established the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.

✦  So I ask you to remember:  What "Palestinian territory that is liberated" since 1974*?*​
◈  Area "A" came under full civil and security control by the Palestinian Authority in 1995 was an outcome of the Oslo Accords.

◈  The Gaza Strip became a self-governing Palestinian subdivision corresponding to an autonomous province under the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) as an outcome of the Israeli dismantling of all settlements in the Gaza Strip and a unilaterial disengagement in 2005.​
The PLO/Palestinian Authority (PLO/PA) has an on again, off again, relationship with HAMAS.  The PLO/PA cannot say that it has sovereign control over Gaza.  But, for all practical purposes, the PLO/PA has full right and power of a governing body to govern Area "A" without any external interference.



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is a loaded question.   It is like asking:  “When Did You Stop Beating Your Wife?”  Up and until The Seventh Arab Summit Conference _(Rabat, Morocco 28 October 1974)_ there was no political body called "Palestinians."   It was a regional colloquialism used by certain Arabs to distinguish themselves from other Arabs.  Up until The Seventh Arab Summit, the Arab League through the Arab High Committee (AHC) represented those that called themselves "Palestinians."
> 
> So your question is only valid from a time beginning after 28 October 1974. when the Arab League established independent national authority (INA).  The Arab League officially recognized the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> 
> As a result out of the proceedings of The Seventh Arab Summit the UN acknowledges the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988; see A/RES/43/177 Question of Palestine 15 December 1988.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "borders" as outlined in Part II • Boundaries, of A/RES/181(II), have been overtaken by even, having been modified by various wars, international agreements, and treaties.
> 
> 
> 
> Did the Palestinians lose any wars or sign any of these treaties. Or, was it all done by external interference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Israeli War of Independence (1948) was fought and the four Principle Parties (Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon and Syria) for the Arab League came to four separate agreements as outlined in my Posting of #2054.
> 
> Similarly, an independent national authority (INA) for the Palestinians did not exist during the period of the 1967 Six-Day War, or the 1973 Yom Kipper War.  That would have made participation and relevance impossible.  After 1974 when the Arab League established the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> 
> ✦  So I ask you to remember:  What "Palestinian territory that is liberated" since 1974*?*​
> ◈  Area "A" came under full civil and security control by the Palestinian Authority in 1995 was an outcome of the Oslo Accords.
> 
> ◈  The Gaza Strip became a self-governing Palestinian subdivision corresponding to an autonomous province under the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) as an outcome of the Israeli dismantling of all settlements in the Gaza Strip and a unilaterial disengagement in 2005.​
> The PLO/Palestinian Authority (PLO/PA) has an on again, off again, relationship with HAMAS.  The PLO/PA cannot say that it has sovereign control over Gaza.  But, for all practical purposes, the PLO/PA has full right and power of a governing body to govern Area "A" without any external interference.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are ducking the question.

Did the Palestinians lose any wars or sign any of these treaties. Or, was it all done by external interference?​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is a loaded question.   It is like asking:  “When Did You Stop Beating Your Wife?”  Up and until The Seventh Arab Summit Conference _(Rabat, Morocco 28 October 1974)_ there was no political body called "Palestinians."   It was a regional colloquialism used by certain Arabs to distinguish themselves from other Arabs.  Up until The Seventh Arab Summit, the Arab League through the Arab High Committee (AHC) represented those that called themselves "Palestinians."
> 
> So your question is only valid from a time beginning after 28 October 1974. when the Arab League established independent national authority (INA).  The Arab League officially recognized the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> 
> As a result out of the proceedings of The Seventh Arab Summit the UN acknowledges the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988; see A/RES/43/177 Question of Palestine 15 December 1988.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "borders" as outlined in Part II • Boundaries, of A/RES/181(II), have been overtaken by even, having been modified by various wars, international agreements, and treaties.
> 
> 
> 
> Did the Palestinians lose any wars or sign any of these treaties. Or, was it all done by external interference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Israeli War of Independence (1948) was fought and the four Principle Parties (Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon and Syria) for the Arab League came to four separate agreements as outlined in my Posting of #2054.
> 
> Similarly, an independent national authority (INA) for the Palestinians did not exist during the period of the 1967 Six-Day War, or the 1973 Yom Kipper War.  That would have made participation and relevance impossible.  After 1974 when the Arab League established the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> 
> ✦  So I ask you to remember:  What "Palestinian territory that is liberated" since 1974*?*​
> ◈  Area "A" came under full civil and security control by the Palestinian Authority in 1995 was an outcome of the Oslo Accords.
> 
> ◈  The Gaza Strip became a self-governing Palestinian subdivision corresponding to an autonomous province under the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) as an outcome of the Israeli dismantling of all settlements in the Gaza Strip and a unilaterial disengagement in 2005.​
> The PLO/Palestinian Authority (PLO/PA) has an on again, off again, relationship with HAMAS.  The PLO/PA cannot say that it has sovereign control over Gaza.  But, for all practical purposes, the PLO/PA has full right and power of a governing body to govern Area "A" without any external interference.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are ducking the question.
> 
> Did the Palestinians lose any wars or sign any of these treaties. Or, was it all done by external interference?​
Click to expand...


Arabs-Moslems most recently lost a war in 2014. Well, maybe just another skirmish at the end of the most recent Hudna. 

What governing body could have / would have been able to sign anything on behalf of the Arabs-Moslems occupying the land area called Palestine? 
The answer is none, but you knew that.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

OK → you want a child-like thumbnail answer → HERE:



P F Tinmore said:


> You are ducking the question.
> 
> Did the Palestinians lose any wars or sign any of these treaties. Or, was it all done by external interference?​


*(COMMENT)*

◈  NO attempts to engage in hostilities.
◈  NO opponents. 
◈  NO Territiorial Loses or detruction of entity property.
◈  NO abilities to make agreements.
◈  NO external influence over an entity that did not exist.​
For advanced explanations on a realistic level, see Postings 2070, 2074, 2077, and 2079. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Did the Palestinians lose any wars or sign any of these treaties. Or, was it all done by external interference?



Well, so far, in the civil war between the Jewish Palestinians and the Arab Palestinians the Arab Palestinians have lost every single major conflict and most of the minor ones.

And of course the Arab Palestinians signed the Oslo Accords.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK → you want a child-like thumbnail answer → HERE:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are ducking the question.
> 
> Did the Palestinians lose any wars or sign any of these treaties. Or, was it all done by external interference?​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  NO attempts to engage in hostilities.
> ◈  NO opponents.
> ◈  NO Territiorial Loses or detruction of entity property.
> ◈  NO abilities to make agreements.
> ◈  NO external influence over an entity that did not exist.​
> For advanced explanations on a realistic level, see Postings 2070, 2074, 2077, and 2079.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

WTF???? Just because you post a lot of stuff, does not mean that you have answered the question.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK → you want a child-like thumbnail answer → HERE:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are ducking the question.
> 
> Did the Palestinians lose any wars or sign any of these treaties. Or, was it all done by external interference?​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  NO attempts to engage in hostilities.
> ◈  NO opponents.
> ◈  NO Territiorial Loses or detruction of entity property.
> ◈  NO abilities to make agreements.
> ◈  NO external influence over an entity that did not exist.​
> For advanced explanations on a realistic level, see Postings 2070, 2074, 2077, and 2079.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WTF???? Just because you post a lot of stuff, does not mean that you have answered the question.
Click to expand...


When you have trouble understanding the topic, raise your hand and ask a question.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Report: IDF drone fires at Gaza motorbike after arson balloons launched at south


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israeli security forces have recently noticed Hamas sending children as young as eight years old to the front lines of protests along the Gaza-Israel border, the Israel Defense Forces said on Thursday.

They have also lately heard unidentified operatives on loudspeakers promising children at the border NIS 300 ($83) if they get injured, the army said, confirming a previous unsourced report on the Kan public broadcaster.

(full article online)

IDF: Gaza children being promised NIS 300 ($83) if injured at border protests


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas officials said a 15-year-old boy was shot and killed and at least 30 others injured by live fire as thousands of Palestinians rioted along the Gaza border on Friday, throwing rocks and explosive devices at Israeli soldiers and trying to breach the fence.

The Hamas-run Gaza health ministry initially said the boy was 12, but later identified him as 15-year-old Yousef al-Dayya. They said he was shot in the chest and critically wounded. He later died of his injuries.

(full article online)

Palestinians say teen killed as thousands riot on Gaza border


----------



## Coyote

Sixties Fan said:


> Israeli security forces have recently noticed Hamas sending children as young as eight years old to the front lines of protests along the Gaza-Israel border, the Israel Defense Forces said on Thursday.
> 
> They have also lately heard unidentified operatives on loudspeakers promising children at the border NIS 300 ($83) if they get injured, the army said, confirming a previous unsourced report on the Kan public broadcaster.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> IDF: Gaza children being promised NIS 300 ($83) if injured at border protests


F Hamas.  I dont see how anyone can defend the way they are using children in this.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Ahhhh....those peaceful protests.....]

WATCH: Fox News crew flees Palestinian grenades at violent Gaza riot


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli security forces have recently noticed Hamas sending children as young as eight years old to the front lines of protests along the Gaza-Israel border, the Israel Defense Forces said on Thursday.
> 
> They have also lately heard unidentified operatives on loudspeakers promising children at the border NIS 300 ($83) if they get injured, the army said, confirming a previous unsourced report on the Kan public broadcaster.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> IDF: Gaza children being promised NIS 300 ($83) if injured at border protests
> 
> 
> 
> F Hamas.  I dont see how anyone can defend the way they are using children in this.
Click to expand...

Indeed, they should be planting trees and rebuilding the farms in the area.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, they should be planting trees and rebuilding the farms in the area.



And developing an economy. And repairing infrastructure. And building homes and hospitals and schools. 

Why aren't they?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, they should be planting trees and rebuilding the farms in the area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And developing an economy. And repairing infrastructure. And building homes and hospitals and schools.
> 
> Why aren't they?
Click to expand...

Good question. Perhaps they have acquired a different attitude living on the inside than outside observers.

They could have replanted the whole no go zone by now. That would be more fruitful than burning tires and throwing stones into the dirt. Israel would have no excuse to shoot people.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, they should be planting trees and rebuilding the farms in the area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And developing an economy. And repairing infrastructure. And building homes and hospitals and schools.
> 
> Why aren't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. Perhaps they have acquired a different attitude living on the inside than outside observers.
> 
> They could have replanted the whole no go zone by now. That would be more fruitful than burning tires and throwing stones into the dirt. Israel would have no excuse to shoot people.
Click to expand...


Don’t let facts cloud the issue. Arabs-Moslems actually *are* burning tires, throwing stones, attacking with deadly weapons and attempting to breach the Israeli border.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, they should be planting trees and rebuilding the farms in the area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And developing an economy. And repairing infrastructure. And building homes and hospitals and schools.
> 
> Why aren't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. Perhaps they have acquired a different attitude living on the inside than outside observers.
> 
> They could have replanted the whole no go zone by now. That would be more fruitful than burning tires and throwing stones into the dirt. Israel would have no excuse to shoot people.
Click to expand...


And what was the Arab excuse for failure before Israel?
They had 500 years to plant and build, yet they've turned the place into a land of swamps, disease and total degradation.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, they should be planting trees and rebuilding the farms in the area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And developing an economy. And repairing infrastructure. And building homes and hospitals and schools.
> 
> Why aren't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. Perhaps they have acquired a different attitude living on the inside than outside observers.
> 
> They could have replanted the whole no go zone by now. That would be more fruitful than burning tires and throwing stones into the dirt. Israel would have no excuse to shoot people.
Click to expand...


Was that last of yours strictly necessary?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, they should be planting trees and rebuilding the farms in the area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And developing an economy. And repairing infrastructure. And building homes and hospitals and schools.
> 
> Why aren't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. Perhaps they have acquired a different attitude living on the inside than outside observers.
> 
> They could have replanted the whole no go zone by now. That would be more fruitful than burning tires and throwing stones into the dirt. Israel would have no excuse to shoot people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And what was the Arab excuse for failure before Israel?
> They had 500 years to plant and build, yet they've turned the place into a land of swamps, disease and total degradation.
Click to expand...

Who told you that?

Palestinians had to pay a 33% tax to the Ottoman Empire. That had a negative impact on their production growth. Even with that they produced a surplus of food that was exported to other countries. They had a positive balance of trade.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, they should be planting trees and rebuilding the farms in the area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And developing an economy. And repairing infrastructure. And building homes and hospitals and schools.
> 
> Why aren't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. Perhaps they have acquired a different attitude living on the inside than outside observers.
> 
> They could have replanted the whole no go zone by now. That would be more fruitful than burning tires and throwing stones into the dirt. Israel would have no excuse to shoot people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And what was the Arab excuse for failure before Israel?
> They had 500 years to plant and build, yet they've turned the place into a land of swamps, disease and total degradation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who told you that?
> 
> Palestinians had to pay a 33% tax to the Ottoman Empire. That had a negative impact on their production growth. Even with that they produced a surplus of food that was exported to other countries. They had a positive balance of trade.
Click to expand...


And during the dark ages there was trade as well, it was still degradation.
Land doesn't become infested with swamps and disease when people take care of it,
Arabs turned the place into the most abandoned and impoverished land in the Caliphate.

In fact Jews had to pay triple that under the Muslim rule, yet they've rebuilt cities, established new neighborhoods and dried swamps - Arab didn't care until then, didn't even build a single road.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, they should be planting trees and rebuilding the farms in the area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And developing an economy. And repairing infrastructure. And building homes and hospitals and schools.
> 
> Why aren't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. Perhaps they have acquired a different attitude living on the inside than outside observers.
> 
> They could have replanted the whole no go zone by now. That would be more fruitful than burning tires and throwing stones into the dirt. Israel would have no excuse to shoot people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And what was the Arab excuse for failure before Israel?
> They had 500 years to plant and build, yet they've turned the place into a land of swamps, disease and total degradation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who told you that?
> 
> Palestinians had to pay a 33% tax to the Ottoman Empire. That had a negative impact on their production growth. Even with that they produced a surplus of food that was exported to other countries. They had a positive balance of trade.
Click to expand...


Palestinians in the Ottoman Empire?


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, they should be planting trees and rebuilding the farms in the area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And developing an economy. And repairing infrastructure. And building homes and hospitals and schools.
> 
> Why aren't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. Perhaps they have acquired a different attitude living on the inside than outside observers.
> 
> They could have replanted the whole no go zone by now. That would be more fruitful than burning tires and throwing stones into the dirt. Israel would have no excuse to shoot people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And what was the Arab excuse for failure before Israel?
> They had 500 years to plant and build, yet they've turned the place into a land of swamps, disease and total degradation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who told you that?
> 
> Palestinians had to pay a 33% tax to the Ottoman Empire. That had a negative impact on their production growth. Even with that they produced a surplus of food that was exported to other countries. They had a positive balance of trade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinians in the Ottoman Empire?
Click to expand...


Shhh...don't tell him it were the Jews who owned Gaza and managed the trade.

Don't tell him Palestine is a word in Hebrew, he might get upset and declare a day of rage,
be gentile with our Hamas bride.


----------



## Mindful

A Fox News journalist reports from the latest March of Return riots, which the palestinians and their supporters still claim are “peaceful demonstrations.”


That’s right – grenades and IEDs (improvised explosive devices).

Note also the text on the screen: _Hamas threatens more protests at Gaza-Israel border_. The palestinians have been claiming that these are a spontaneous uprising by the common man, and not Hamas-organized.

Peaceful my ass Hamas.

 Israellycool.com


----------



## Hollie

I had to go to that respository of Islamic Terrorist propaganda (see below), to find news on the failed Islamic terrorist gee-had at the Israeli border.

Like the failed flotilla stunt, the border gee-had has become another attention-getting stunt that achieved nothing, aside from a lot of dead and injured Islamic terrorists. 



Great March of Return


----------



## Sixties Fan

Earlier on Saturday, violent clashes between Palestinian demonstrators and Israeli soldiers broke out along the border fence. IDF soldiers used riot dispersal methods to keep the demonstrators away from the border fence, the Walla news site reported.

According to the news site, several demonstrators attempted to sabotage the border fence.

No injuries were reported in the incident.

The IDF said it had neutralized suspected explosive devices that were thrown at the fence during violent demonstrations along the Gaza border Friday, where some 8000 Palestinians protested, with some rioting and clashing with Israeli troops.

Some protesters burned tires and threw explosive devices, rocks and grenades at Israeli troops guarding the security fence, the army said.

Soldiers responded with tear gas and, in some instances, live fire, the army said.

The Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza said 21 Palestinians were wounded during the clashes by Israeli fire.

(full article online)

Balloon cluster with incendiary device launched from Gaza; IDF hits Hamas posts


----------



## Slyhunter

Sixties Fan said:


> Earlier on Saturday, violent clashes between Palestinian demonstrators and Israeli soldiers broke out along the border fence. IDF soldiers used riot dispersal methods to keep the demonstrators away from the border fence, the Walla news site reported.
> 
> According to the news site, several demonstrators attempted to sabotage the border fence.
> 
> No injuries were reported in the incident.
> 
> The IDF said it had neutralized suspected explosive devices that were thrown at the fence during violent demonstrations along the Gaza border Friday, where some 8000 Palestinians protested, with some rioting and clashing with Israeli troops.
> 
> Some protesters burned tires and threw explosive devices, rocks and grenades at Israeli troops guarding the security fence, the army said.
> 
> Soldiers responded with tear gas and, in some instances, live fire, the army said.
> 
> The Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza said 21 Palestinians were wounded during the clashes by Israeli fire.
> (full article online)
> 
> Balloon cluster with incendiary device launched from Gaza; IDF hits Hamas posts


Why can't the Palestinians let the Israelites live in peace?


----------



## Hollie

The IDF delivered some Islamic terrorist resistance methodology in the Islamic terrorist enclave sometimes called “Gaza”. 




IDF strikes Hamas after explosive devices launched from Gaza into Israel

The Israeli military said Saturday evening that it struck Hamas targets in the southern Gaza Strip after balloons carrying explosive devices drifted from the coastal enclave into Israel.


----------



## Hollie

Slyhunter said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Earlier on Saturday, violent clashes between Palestinian demonstrators and Israeli soldiers broke out along the border fence. IDF soldiers used riot dispersal methods to keep the demonstrators away from the border fence, the Walla news site reported.
> 
> According to the news site, several demonstrators attempted to sabotage the border fence.
> 
> No injuries were reported in the incident.
> 
> The IDF said it had neutralized suspected explosive devices that were thrown at the fence during violent demonstrations along the Gaza border Friday, where some 8000 Palestinians protested, with some rioting and clashing with Israeli troops.
> 
> Some protesters burned tires and threw explosive devices, rocks and grenades at Israeli troops guarding the security fence, the army said.
> 
> Soldiers responded with tear gas and, in some instances, live fire, the army said.
> 
> The Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza said 21 Palestinians were wounded during the clashes by Israeli fire.
> (full article online)
> 
> Balloon cluster with incendiary device launched from Gaza; IDF hits Hamas posts
> 
> 
> 
> Why can't the Palestinians let the Israelites live in peace?
Click to expand...



Idolatry of a 7th century Arab warlord and promoting his life and times as a model for all of Arabism for all time.


----------



## Hollie

It does appear that the failed border gee-had has largely run its course as just another pointless stunt orchestrated by Hamas for publicity purposes. 

Smaller scale Islamic terrorist attacks will no doubt continue and this is where israel may choose to defend its border with snipers outfitted with night vision gear. 



*Hamas Heightens Risk of War With Violent Nights on Gaza Border *

*Hamas heightens risk of war with violent nights on Gaza border
*
The Israeli army has increased its use of live fire during the nighttime demonstrations, which are more violent than the weekly Friday protests.

Violent nighttime incidents along the Gaza-Israel border are creating a new risk of a broader conflict with Hamas and are different in nature than the weekly protests that have been carried out on the border on Fridays for almost a year.


----------



## Sixties Fan

CAMERA last week prompted correction of a CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) report which erroneously counted gunmen, infiltrators and Palestinians who engaged in other violent attacks at the Gaza border with Israel among demonstrators killed by Israeli fire. While the CBC commendably set the record straight on this point, it declined to remove the completely irrelevant discussion of Canadians joining ISIS from the article about Canadians joining the Israeli army, the friendly military of a Canadian ally.

In her Feb. 22 article (“I don’t see why I shouldn’t have to serve’: Why young, Jewish Canadians are enlisting in the Israeli military“), Elise von Scheel erred on U.N. statistics, stating:

The United Nations estimates more than 200 Palestinians were killed and thousands more injured during demonstrations that lasted for most of the year and continue still.
The article provides a hyperlink to the U.N. source in question. The source does not substantiate the claim that 200 Palestinians were killed “during demonstrations.” The U.N. document (“More casualties sustained during the ‘Great March of Return'”) details Palestinian casualties from March 30 through Oct. 31, 2018  as part of the totality of the “March of Return” events – which include violent attacks and infiltrations, alongside 

(full article online)

CAMERA Prompts Correction After CBC Counts Gunmen, Infiltrators as Demonstrators


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Ah, the British.......with 15 colonies.....still....to their name.....what to help the Arab colonizers take away land from indigenous people, just as they did  ]

BBC Radio 4 tells listeners that Gaza rioters were ‘innocent civilians’


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Towing the line....]

BBC News website unquestioningly amplifies UNHRC’s report


----------



## Sixties Fan

Two incendiary balloons launched from Gaza explode in Israel


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  Sixties Fan, et al,

I cannot understand how the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court (ICC)(Fatou Bensouda) can hold and credibility at all by demonstrating the preconceived notion _(by publicly warning that those responsible for the killing of Palestinians near the Gaza border)_ that Israel is responsible for the attack on the border barrier, and might be prosecuted by the ICC.  What good is the Office of the Prosecutor if they are just going to prosecute the popular villain, instead of the actual Jihadist designated as a Terrorist Organization and that organized the March.

It only demonstrates how utterly corrupt the Prosecutor's Office is when it encourages the Protestors to storm the border using the great number of civilians to mask terrorist infiltration.  That is a clear violation of Rule 97 of the Customary and International Humanitarian Law _(“utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations” constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts")_, ICC Statute, Article 8(2)(b)(xxiii). 



Sixties Fan said:


> Two incendiary balloons launched from Gaza explode in Israel




			
				[SIZE=3][URL='https://treaties.un.org/doc/db/Terrorism/english-18-9.pdf']1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings said:
			
		

> [/URL][/SIZE]
> 
> Creates a regime of universal jurisdiction over the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​



I always find it rather funny that the Arab Palestinians, who claim to be the victim in the Great Return March would openly and so brazenly violate the international convention.

Any deaths involved, in my opinion, falls on the International Coordinating Committee (ie HAMAS) for the Great Return March.  

◈◈  The Office of the Prosecutor, ICC, also should be charged with an unethical act in the execution of a duty that is not illegal but is improperly performed.  It is an act through which the ICC intentionally makes the allegation that → for purposes other than bringing the designated terrorist organization to justice → damages the character of a nation that is defending its territorial integrity.  This action, on the part of the ICC Prosecutor, encouraged further threats to the peace, and invited a continuation for acts of aggression on the part of a designated terrorist organization. 

The world can only wonder if the ICC had the aim of furthering the criminal activity to breach the border → or promote the criminal purpose of the HAMAS, where such activity or purpose involves the commission of a crime within the jurisdiction of the ICC itself.  Obviously, the Prosecutor cannot prosecute itself. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> I cannot understand how the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court (ICC)(Fatou Bensouda) can hold and credibility at all by demonstrating the preconceived notion _(by publicly warning that those responsible for the killing of Palestinians near the Gaza border)_ that Israel is responsible for the attack on the border barrier, and might be prosecuted by the ICC.  What good is the Office of the Prosecutor if they are just going to prosecute the popular villain, instead of the actual Jihadist designated as a Terrorist Organization and that organized the March.
> 
> It only demonstrates how utterly corrupt the Prosecutor's Office is when it encourages the Protestors to storm the border using the great number of civilians to mask terrorist infiltration.  That is a clear violation of Rule 97 of the Customary and International Humanitarian Law _(“utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations” constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts")_, ICC Statute, Article 8(2)(b)(xxiii).
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two incendiary balloons launched from Gaza explode in Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [SIZE=3][URL='https://treaties.un.org/doc/db/Terrorism/english-18-9.pdf']1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/URL][/SIZE]
> 
> Creates a regime of universal jurisdiction over the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> View attachment 248698​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I always find it rather funny that the Arab Palestinians, who claim to be the victim in the Great Return March would openly and so brazenly violate the international convention.
> 
> Any deaths involved, in my opinion, falls on the International Coordinating Committee (ie HAMAS) for the Great Return March.
> 
> ◈◈  The Office of the Prosecutor, ICC, also should be charged with an unethical act in the execution of a duty that is not illegal but is improperly performed.  It is an act through which the ICC intentionally makes the allegation that → for purposes other than bringing the designated terrorist organization to justice → damages the character of a nation that is defending its territorial integrity.  This action, on the part of the ICC Prosecutor, encouraged further threats to the peace, and invited a continuation for acts of aggression on the part of a designated terrorist organization.
> 
> The world can only wonder if the ICC had the aim of furthering the criminal activity to breach the border → or promote the criminal purpose of the HAMAS, where such activity or purpose involves the commission of a crime within the jurisdiction of the ICC itself.  Obviously, the Prosecutor cannot prosecute itself.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...



Its an on-going and insidious shifting of law when it comes to Israel.  Law is defined and applied differently to Israel.  We've seen it before.  We will see it again.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> I cannot understand how the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court (ICC)(Fatou Bensouda) can hold and credibility at all by demonstrating the preconceived notion _(by publicly warning that those responsible for the killing of Palestinians near the Gaza border)_ that Israel is responsible for the attack on the border barrier, and might be prosecuted by the ICC.  What good is the Office of the Prosecutor if they are just going to prosecute the popular villain, instead of the actual Jihadist designated as a Terrorist Organization and that organized the March.
> 
> It only demonstrates how utterly corrupt the Prosecutor's Office is when it encourages the Protestors to storm the border using the great number of civilians to mask terrorist infiltration.  That is a clear violation of Rule 97 of the Customary and International Humanitarian Law _(“utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations” constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts")_, ICC Statute, Article 8(2)(b)(xxiii).
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two incendiary balloons launched from Gaza explode in Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [SIZE=3][URL='https://treaties.un.org/doc/db/Terrorism/english-18-9.pdf']1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/URL][/SIZE]
> 
> Creates a regime of universal jurisdiction over the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> View attachment 248698​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I always find it rather funny that the Arab Palestinians, who claim to be the victim in the Great Return March would openly and so brazenly violate the international convention.
> 
> Any deaths involved, in my opinion, falls on the International Coordinating Committee (ie HAMAS) for the Great Return March.
> 
> ◈◈  The Office of the Prosecutor, ICC, also should be charged with an unethical act in the execution of a duty that is not illegal but is improperly performed.  It is an act through which the ICC intentionally makes the allegation that → for purposes other than bringing the designated terrorist organization to justice → damages the character of a nation that is defending its territorial integrity.  This action, on the part of the ICC Prosecutor, encouraged further threats to the peace, and invited a continuation for acts of aggression on the part of a designated terrorist organization.
> 
> The world can only wonder if the ICC had the aim of furthering the criminal activity to breach the border → or promote the criminal purpose of the HAMAS, where such activity or purpose involves the commission of a crime within the jurisdiction of the ICC itself.  Obviously, the Prosecutor cannot prosecute itself.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Has Israel filed a complaint with the ICC?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> I cannot understand how the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court (ICC)(Fatou Bensouda) can hold and credibility at all by demonstrating the preconceived notion _(by publicly warning that those responsible for the killing of Palestinians near the Gaza border)_ that Israel is responsible for the attack on the border barrier, and might be prosecuted by the ICC.  What good is the Office of the Prosecutor if they are just going to prosecute the popular villain, instead of the actual Jihadist designated as a Terrorist Organization and that organized the March.
> 
> It only demonstrates how utterly corrupt the Prosecutor's Office is when it encourages the Protestors to storm the border using the great number of civilians to mask terrorist infiltration.  That is a clear violation of Rule 97 of the Customary and International Humanitarian Law _(“utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations” constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts")_, ICC Statute, Article 8(2)(b)(xxiii).
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two incendiary balloons launched from Gaza explode in Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [SIZE=3][URL='https://treaties.un.org/doc/db/Terrorism/english-18-9.pdf']1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/URL][/SIZE]
> 
> Creates a regime of universal jurisdiction over the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> View attachment 248698​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I always find it rather funny that the Arab Palestinians, who claim to be the victim in the Great Return March would openly and so brazenly violate the international convention.
> 
> Any deaths involved, in my opinion, falls on the International Coordinating Committee (ie HAMAS) for the Great Return March.
> 
> ◈◈  The Office of the Prosecutor, ICC, also should be charged with an unethical act in the execution of a duty that is not illegal but is improperly performed.  It is an act through which the ICC intentionally makes the allegation that → for purposes other than bringing the designated terrorist organization to justice → damages the character of a nation that is defending its territorial integrity.  This action, on the part of the ICC Prosecutor, encouraged further threats to the peace, and invited a continuation for acts of aggression on the part of a designated terrorist organization.
> 
> The world can only wonder if the ICC had the aim of furthering the criminal activity to breach the border → or promote the criminal purpose of the HAMAS, where such activity or purpose involves the commission of a crime within the jurisdiction of the ICC itself.  Obviously, the Prosecutor cannot prosecute itself.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has Israel filed a complaint with the ICC?
Click to expand...

If you did not catch this news the first time.......

IDF reservists to file complaint against Hamas, PLO to ICC


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> I cannot understand how the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court (ICC)(Fatou Bensouda) can hold and credibility at all by demonstrating the preconceived notion _(by publicly warning that those responsible for the killing of Palestinians near the Gaza border)_ that Israel is responsible for the attack on the border barrier, and might be prosecuted by the ICC.  What good is the Office of the Prosecutor if they are just going to prosecute the popular villain, instead of the actual Jihadist designated as a Terrorist Organization and that organized the March.
> 
> It only demonstrates how utterly corrupt the Prosecutor's Office is when it encourages the Protestors to storm the border using the great number of civilians to mask terrorist infiltration.  That is a clear violation of Rule 97 of the Customary and International Humanitarian Law _(“utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations” constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts")_, ICC Statute, Article 8(2)(b)(xxiii).
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two incendiary balloons launched from Gaza explode in Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [SIZE=3][URL='https://treaties.un.org/doc/db/Terrorism/english-18-9.pdf']1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/URL][/SIZE]
> 
> Creates a regime of universal jurisdiction over the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> View attachment 248698​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I always find it rather funny that the Arab Palestinians, who claim to be the victim in the Great Return March would openly and so brazenly violate the international convention.
> 
> Any deaths involved, in my opinion, falls on the International Coordinating Committee (ie HAMAS) for the Great Return March.
> 
> ◈◈  The Office of the Prosecutor, ICC, also should be charged with an unethical act in the execution of a duty that is not illegal but is improperly performed.  It is an act through which the ICC intentionally makes the allegation that → for purposes other than bringing the designated terrorist organization to justice → damages the character of a nation that is defending its territorial integrity.  This action, on the part of the ICC Prosecutor, encouraged further threats to the peace, and invited a continuation for acts of aggression on the part of a designated terrorist organization.
> 
> The world can only wonder if the ICC had the aim of furthering the criminal activity to breach the border → or promote the criminal purpose of the HAMAS, where such activity or purpose involves the commission of a crime within the jurisdiction of the ICC itself.  Obviously, the Prosecutor cannot prosecute itself.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has Israel filed a complaint with the ICC?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you did not catch this news the first time.......
> 
> IDF reservists to file complaint against Hamas, PLO to ICC
Click to expand...

Good luck with that. Those talking points have already been debunked.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> I cannot understand how the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court (ICC)(Fatou Bensouda) can hold and credibility at all by demonstrating the preconceived notion _(by publicly warning that those responsible for the killing of Palestinians near the Gaza border)_ that Israel is responsible for the attack on the border barrier, and might be prosecuted by the ICC.  What good is the Office of the Prosecutor if they are just going to prosecute the popular villain, instead of the actual Jihadist designated as a Terrorist Organization and that organized the March.
> 
> It only demonstrates how utterly corrupt the Prosecutor's Office is when it encourages the Protestors to storm the border using the great number of civilians to mask terrorist infiltration.  That is a clear violation of Rule 97 of the Customary and International Humanitarian Law _(“utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations” constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts")_, ICC Statute, Article 8(2)(b)(xxiii).
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two incendiary balloons launched from Gaza explode in Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [SIZE=3][URL='https://treaties.un.org/doc/db/Terrorism/english-18-9.pdf']1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/URL][/SIZE]
> 
> Creates a regime of universal jurisdiction over the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> View attachment 248698​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I always find it rather funny that the Arab Palestinians, who claim to be the victim in the Great Return March would openly and so brazenly violate the international convention.
> 
> Any deaths involved, in my opinion, falls on the International Coordinating Committee (ie HAMAS) for the Great Return March.
> 
> ◈◈  The Office of the Prosecutor, ICC, also should be charged with an unethical act in the execution of a duty that is not illegal but is improperly performed.  It is an act through which the ICC intentionally makes the allegation that → for purposes other than bringing the designated terrorist organization to justice → damages the character of a nation that is defending its territorial integrity.  This action, on the part of the ICC Prosecutor, encouraged further threats to the peace, and invited a continuation for acts of aggression on the part of a designated terrorist organization.
> 
> The world can only wonder if the ICC had the aim of furthering the criminal activity to breach the border → or promote the criminal purpose of the HAMAS, where such activity or purpose involves the commission of a crime within the jurisdiction of the ICC itself.  Obviously, the Prosecutor cannot prosecute itself.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has Israel filed a complaint with the ICC?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you did not catch this news the first time.......
> 
> IDF reservists to file complaint against Hamas, PLO to ICC
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good luck with that. Those talking points have already been debunked.
Click to expand...

Talking points?  What total BS still coming from you.
But that's ok.  Israel STILL exists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> I cannot understand how the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court (ICC)(Fatou Bensouda) can hold and credibility at all by demonstrating the preconceived notion _(by publicly warning that those responsible for the killing of Palestinians near the Gaza border)_ that Israel is responsible for the attack on the border barrier, and might be prosecuted by the ICC.  What good is the Office of the Prosecutor if they are just going to prosecute the popular villain, instead of the actual Jihadist designated as a Terrorist Organization and that organized the March.
> 
> It only demonstrates how utterly corrupt the Prosecutor's Office is when it encourages the Protestors to storm the border using the great number of civilians to mask terrorist infiltration.  That is a clear violation of Rule 97 of the Customary and International Humanitarian Law _(“utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations” constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts")_, ICC Statute, Article 8(2)(b)(xxiii).
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two incendiary balloons launched from Gaza explode in Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [SIZE=3][URL='https://treaties.un.org/doc/db/Terrorism/english-18-9.pdf']1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/URL][/SIZE]
> 
> Creates a regime of universal jurisdiction over the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> View attachment 248698​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I always find it rather funny that the Arab Palestinians, who claim to be the victim in the Great Return March would openly and so brazenly violate the international convention.
> 
> Any deaths involved, in my opinion, falls on the International Coordinating Committee (ie HAMAS) for the Great Return March.
> 
> ◈◈  The Office of the Prosecutor, ICC, also should be charged with an unethical act in the execution of a duty that is not illegal but is improperly performed.  It is an act through which the ICC intentionally makes the allegation that → for purposes other than bringing the designated terrorist organization to justice → damages the character of a nation that is defending its territorial integrity.  This action, on the part of the ICC Prosecutor, encouraged further threats to the peace, and invited a continuation for acts of aggression on the part of a designated terrorist organization.
> 
> The world can only wonder if the ICC had the aim of furthering the criminal activity to breach the border → or promote the criminal purpose of the HAMAS, where such activity or purpose involves the commission of a crime within the jurisdiction of the ICC itself.  Obviously, the Prosecutor cannot prosecute itself.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Perhaps a similar protest against Egypt would be illegal because there *is* a border there.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> I cannot understand how the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court (ICC)(Fatou Bensouda) can hold and credibility at all by demonstrating the preconceived notion _(by publicly warning that those responsible for the killing of Palestinians near the Gaza border)_ that Israel is responsible for the attack on the border barrier, and might be prosecuted by the ICC.  What good is the Office of the Prosecutor if they are just going to prosecute the popular villain, instead of the actual Jihadist designated as a Terrorist Organization and that organized the March.
> 
> It only demonstrates how utterly corrupt the Prosecutor's Office is when it encourages the Protestors to storm the border using the great number of civilians to mask terrorist infiltration.  That is a clear violation of Rule 97 of the Customary and International Humanitarian Law _(“utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations” constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts")_, ICC Statute, Article 8(2)(b)(xxiii).
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two incendiary balloons launched from Gaza explode in Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [SIZE=3][URL='https://treaties.un.org/doc/db/Terrorism/english-18-9.pdf']1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/URL][/SIZE]
> 
> Creates a regime of universal jurisdiction over the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> View attachment 248698​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I always find it rather funny that the Arab Palestinians, who claim to be the victim in the Great Return March would openly and so brazenly violate the international convention.
> 
> Any deaths involved, in my opinion, falls on the International Coordinating Committee (ie HAMAS) for the Great Return March.
> 
> ◈◈  The Office of the Prosecutor, ICC, also should be charged with an unethical act in the execution of a duty that is not illegal but is improperly performed.  It is an act through which the ICC intentionally makes the allegation that → for purposes other than bringing the designated terrorist organization to justice → damages the character of a nation that is defending its territorial integrity.  This action, on the part of the ICC Prosecutor, encouraged further threats to the peace, and invited a continuation for acts of aggression on the part of a designated terrorist organization.
> 
> The world can only wonder if the ICC had the aim of furthering the criminal activity to breach the border → or promote the criminal purpose of the HAMAS, where such activity or purpose involves the commission of a crime within the jurisdiction of the ICC itself.  Obviously, the Prosecutor cannot prosecute itself.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps a similar protest against Egypt would be illegal because there *is* a border there.
Click to expand...

They are not protesting against Egypt because it is already a Muslim Country and they do not want to destroy it out of existence .
But the Muslim Brotherhood did try, for a year, to be in control of Egypt .......and nearly destroyed it anyway.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> I cannot understand how the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court (ICC)(Fatou Bensouda) can hold and credibility at all by demonstrating the preconceived notion _(by publicly warning that those responsible for the killing of Palestinians near the Gaza border)_ that Israel is responsible for the attack on the border barrier, and might be prosecuted by the ICC.  What good is the Office of the Prosecutor if they are just going to prosecute the popular villain, instead of the actual Jihadist designated as a Terrorist Organization and that organized the March.
> 
> It only demonstrates how utterly corrupt the Prosecutor's Office is when it encourages the Protestors to storm the border using the great number of civilians to mask terrorist infiltration.  That is a clear violation of Rule 97 of the Customary and International Humanitarian Law _(“utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations” constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts")_, ICC Statute, Article 8(2)(b)(xxiii).
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two incendiary balloons launched from Gaza explode in Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [SIZE=3][URL='https://treaties.un.org/doc/db/Terrorism/english-18-9.pdf']1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/URL][/SIZE]
> 
> Creates a regime of universal jurisdiction over the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> View attachment 248698​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I always find it rather funny that the Arab Palestinians, who claim to be the victim in the Great Return March would openly and so brazenly violate the international convention.
> 
> Any deaths involved, in my opinion, falls on the International Coordinating Committee (ie HAMAS) for the Great Return March.
> 
> ◈◈  The Office of the Prosecutor, ICC, also should be charged with an unethical act in the execution of a duty that is not illegal but is improperly performed.  It is an act through which the ICC intentionally makes the allegation that → for purposes other than bringing the designated terrorist organization to justice → damages the character of a nation that is defending its territorial integrity.  This action, on the part of the ICC Prosecutor, encouraged further threats to the peace, and invited a continuation for acts of aggression on the part of a designated terrorist organization.
> 
> The world can only wonder if the ICC had the aim of furthering the criminal activity to breach the border → or promote the criminal purpose of the HAMAS, where such activity or purpose involves the commission of a crime within the jurisdiction of the ICC itself.  Obviously, the Prosecutor cannot prosecute itself.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps a similar protest against Egypt would be illegal because there *is* a border there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are not protesting against Egypt because it is already a Muslim Country and they do not want to destroy it out of existence .
> But the Muslim Brotherhood did try, for a year, to be in control of Egypt .......and nearly destroyed it anyway.
Click to expand...

Egypt is a foreign country.They are not at war with Egypt.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

In 2002, the State of Israel withdrew fas signatories of the Rome Statures and the International Criminal Court (ICC).  So "NO" 



P F Tinmore said:


> Has Israel filed a complaint with the ICC?


*(COMMENT)*

The dedicated political and human rights position held by the UN had, by the turn of the century, shown itself to be counterproductive to the continued security and protection of the Israel.  No longer servicing a purpose, Israel 

The UN Human Rights Council (UNHRC) took the position that the PLO no longer needed to conform to the agreements of the Oslo Accords; specifically the Area "C" → full civil and security control → afforded the Israelis.  The UNHRC needed to abrogate the Oslo Accords before it could justify the charges that Israel violated of Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.  When the UN chose the one-sided approach and the selective enforcement of the International Agreements, the Rome Statutes were of no further value to the development of a solution to the Israel-Palestinian conflict.

The ICC has interpreted Article 49 → "Deportation or forcible transfer of population" means forced displacement of the persons concerned by expulsion or other coercive acts from the area in which they are lawfully present, without grounds permitted under international law.  Israel did not take "forcible" action. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Israel is a foreign country; as well.



P F Tinmore said:


> Egypt is a foreign country.They are not at war with Egypt.


*(COMMENT)*

So, are you saying that the State of Palestine is officially at "war" with Israel?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Israel is a foreign country; as well.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt is a foreign country.They are not at war with Egypt.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So, are you saying that the State of Palestine is officially at "war" with Israel?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The cage around Gaza is not a border. It is the same place on both sides.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Israel is a foreign country; as well.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt is a foreign country.They are not at war with Egypt.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So, are you saying that the State of Palestine is officially at "war" with Israel?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The cage around Gaza is not a border. It is the same place on both sides.
Click to expand...


There is no cage around Gaza. Another rather frantic appeal to a nonsensical claim.


----------



## Hollie

The islamic terrorists at the border gee-had have no idea as to the sophistication of kuffar technology.

*Hamas says most of protesters killed by Israel in Gaza were members*

Hamas says most of protesters killed by Israel in Gaza were members




You can run, Muhammad, but you can't hide.

*Think you can hide in a large crowd? Not anymore*

Ever wonder how they found the Boston bombers in just a few
days?  This may  help you to understand what the government is looking
at. This photo was taken in Canada and shows about 700,000 people.

    Hard to  disappear in a crowd.     Pick on a  small part of the
crowd click a couple of times — wait —   click a few more times and
see how clear each  individual face  will  become each time. Or use
the wheel on your  mouse.

     This picture was taken with a 70,000 x 30,000 pixel camera
(2100 Mega  Pixels.)  These cameras are not sold to the public and
are being  installed in strategic  locations.

     The camera can identify a face among a multitude of  people.

     Place your computer’s cursor in the mass of people and
double-click a  couple  times.

     Scary sharp!!  Not so easy to hide in a crowd  anymore

Gigapixel.com - 2011 Stanley Cup - Game 7 Canucks Fan Zone v1


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The islamic terrorists at the border gee-had have no idea as to the sophistication of kuffar technology.
> 
> *Hamas says most of protesters killed by Israel in Gaza were members*
> 
> Hamas says most of protesters killed by Israel in Gaza were members
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can run, Muhammad, but you can't hide.
> 
> *Think you can hide in a large crowd? Not anymore*
> 
> Ever wonder how they found the Boston bombers in just a few
> days?  This may  help you to understand what the government is looking
> at. This photo was taken in Canada and shows about 700,000 people.
> 
> Hard to  disappear in a crowd.     Pick on a  small part of the
> crowd click a couple of times — wait —   click a few more times and
> see how clear each  individual face  will  become each time. Or use
> the wheel on your  mouse.
> 
> This picture was taken with a 70,000 x 30,000 pixel camera
> (2100 Mega  Pixels.)  These cameras are not sold to the public and
> are being  installed in strategic  locations.
> 
> The camera can identify a face among a multitude of  people.
> 
> Place your computer’s cursor in the mass of people and
> double-click a  couple  times.
> 
> Scary sharp!!  Not so easy to hide in a crowd  anymore
> 
> Gigapixel.com - 2011 Stanley Cup - Game 7 Canucks Fan Zone v1


Which is funny because the propaganda photos out of Israel are all fuzzy.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The islamic terrorists at the border gee-had have no idea as to the sophistication of kuffar technology.
> 
> *Hamas says most of protesters killed by Israel in Gaza were members*
> 
> Hamas says most of protesters killed by Israel in Gaza were members
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can run, Muhammad, but you can't hide.
> 
> *Think you can hide in a large crowd? Not anymore*
> 
> Ever wonder how they found the Boston bombers in just a few
> days?  This may  help you to understand what the government is looking
> at. This photo was taken in Canada and shows about 700,000 people.
> 
> Hard to  disappear in a crowd.     Pick on a  small part of the
> crowd click a couple of times — wait —   click a few more times and
> see how clear each  individual face  will  become each time. Or use
> the wheel on your  mouse.
> 
> This picture was taken with a 70,000 x 30,000 pixel camera
> (2100 Mega  Pixels.)  These cameras are not sold to the public and
> are being  installed in strategic  locations.
> 
> The camera can identify a face among a multitude of  people.
> 
> Place your computer’s cursor in the mass of people and
> double-click a  couple  times.
> 
> Scary sharp!!  Not so easy to hide in a crowd  anymore
> 
> Gigapixel.com - 2011 Stanley Cup - Game 7 Canucks Fan Zone v1
> 
> 
> 
> Which is funny because the propaganda photos out of Israel are all fuzzy.
Click to expand...


That's funny because Hamas had to admit to their flunkies being picked off by IDF snipers. The peaceful Islamic terrorist border gee-had has resulted in the IDF carefully and skillfully culling the Islamist terrorist herd.

Allah has a sense of humor, no?


----------



## RoccoR

•RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

No, in my opinion, → that would not be correct.



P F Tinmore said:


> The cage around Gaza is not a border. It is the same place on both sides.


*(REFERENCE)*

•  AGREEMENT ON THE GAZA STRIP AND THE JERICHO AREA  •​
• TREATY OF PEACE1 BETWEEN THE ARAB REPUBLIC OF EGYPT AND THE STATE OF ISRAEL  •​
*(COMMENT)*

But that is one of the three possible political conditions that may be considered.

•  The Gaza Strip is incorporated by treaty into Israel.  That would be consistent with Article II - Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace (1979) _(without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip)_. That would mean that, geo-politically, the land would be the same on both sides of the demarcation line.

•  That the demarcation as marked by the patrolled barrier is distinctly geo-politically different on both sides of the demarcation line.

○  One side (of the demarcation line) being → geo-politically → the Sovereign State of Israel.

○  One side (of the demarcation line) being  → geo-politically → the quasi-State of Palestine.

○  Geo-politically fragmented - Sovereign Israel - Sovereign Gaza Strip - Area "A"​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> •RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> No, in my opinion, → that would not be correct.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The cage around Gaza is not a border. It is the same place on both sides.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> •  AGREEMENT ON THE GAZA STRIP AND THE JERICHO AREA  •​
> • TREATY OF PEACE1 BETWEEN THE ARAB REPUBLIC OF EGYPT AND THE STATE OF ISRAEL  •​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But that is one of the three possible political conditions that may be considered.
> 
> •  The Gaza Strip is incorporated by treaty into Israel.  That would be consistent with Article II - Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace (1979) _(without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip)_. That would mean that, geo-politically, the land would be the same on both sides of the demarcation line.
> 
> •  That the demarcation as marked by the patrolled barrier is distinctly geo-politically different on both sides of the demarcation line.
> 
> ○  One side (of the demarcation line) being → geo-politically → the Sovereign State of Israel.
> 
> ○  One side (of the demarcation line) being  → geo-politically → the quasi-State of Palestine.
> 
> ○  Geo-politically fragmented - Sovereign Israel - Sovereign Gaza Strip - Area "A"​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> That the demarcation as marked by the patrolled barrier is distinctly geo-politically different on both sides of the demarcation line


That is an armistice line that was specifically not to be a political or territorial boundary. It is the same place on both sides as it was in 1949.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> That is an armistice line that was specifically not to be a political or territorial boundary. It is the same place on both sides as it was in 1949.



The first half is correct, but the second is lacking.  It is NOT the same place on both sides as it was in 1949.  

The territory on the Israeli side is certainly sovereign Israel.  Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza, and even though Israel has not declared her formal renunciation of that territory, it can be argued that this was both her intent and the result of her actions.  Therefore, the territory on the Gaza side of the armistice line can not be considered Israeli territory.

That leaves us with two choices:  Gaza is under the sovereignty of another State.  Or it is terra nullius.  

Me, I'd argue for terra nullius.  I don't think the State of Palestine has fulfilled the requirements for sovereignty and can't be (yet) considered a sovereign State.  But I suppose one could make an argument for a State of Palestine occupied by Hamas.  That's a pretty tough sell though.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, you are so wrong.  If you check the Posting again, you will carefully notice that I made absolutely no reference to an "Armistice Line or an Armistice Agreement.  There is a very good reason for that and that reason explains why your logic is neither sound nor valid.
(See my Insert:  *A*/RES/25/2625)




​


P F Tinmore said:


> That is an armistice line that was specifically not to be a political or territorial boundary. It is the same place on both sides as it was in 1949.


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians have no connection with any Armistice Arrangement, as they were never a party to the conflict.  Relative to the battlespace _(Gaza Strip and West Bank)_ of the 1949 War for Independence, the State of Israel entered into TWO separate Armistice Agreements:

◈ S/1264/Corr.1 •  23 February 1949 • *EGYPTIAN *- ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT • Covereing the Gaza Strip •

◈ S/1302/Rev.1 • 3 April 1949 • *HASHEMITE JORDAN KINGDOM* - ISRAEL: GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT • Covering the West Bank and Jerusalem​
All Armistice Lines and International Boundaries are separate and distinct subordinate forms in the family of Demarcation Lines.  But not all Demarcation Lines are International Boundaries or Armistice Lines.

Both Armistice Lines were to remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties was achieved.  The Armistice Lines do not exist anymore, having been replaced by:

◈ Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, 26 March 1979 • 

◈ Thel Peace Treaty between the  Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the Government of the State of Israel,  October 26, 1994 •​
There is no international documentation _(per se)_ for the International Recognition of the West Bank and Gaza Strip boundaries, except as may be construed by the Oslo Accords.  Some outside observers call this the occupied Palestinian territories (oPt).  But even that is questionable.

*(EPILOG)*

Not even a Blind Man misconstrue the physical boundaries as marked-out by the Israelis.  The State of Israel takes the territorial integrity of their sovereignty very seriously.

I do not believe that the Arab Palestinians agree among themselves what the borders of their country are, if indeed, there is a country.  But as for sovereignty, only Area "A" meets the definition of Arab Palestinian sovereign territory.

In *Area A*, the main Arab urban areas, Israel has fully withdrawn. The PA has complete control over all civilian administration, and its paramilitary police force is in charge of security.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

I feel a "how does that refute my post" coming on.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh, you are so wrong.  If you check the Posting again, you will carefully notice that I made absolutely no reference to an "Armistice Line or an Armistice Agreement.  There is a very good reason for that and that reason explains why your logic is neither sound nor valid.
> (See my Insert:  *A*/RES/25/2625)
> 
> View attachment 248891​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is an armistice line that was specifically not to be a political or territorial boundary. It is the same place on both sides as it was in 1949.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have no connection with any Armistice Arrangement, as they were never a party to the conflict.  Relative to the battlespace _(Gaza Strip and West Bank)_ of the 1949 War for Independence, the State of Israel entered into TWO separate Armistice Agreements:
> 
> ◈ S/1264/Corr.1 •  23 February 1949 • *EGYPTIAN *- ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT • Covereing the Gaza Strip •
> 
> ◈ S/1302/Rev.1 • 3 April 1949 • *HASHEMITE JORDAN KINGDOM* - ISRAEL: GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT • Covering the West Bank and Jerusalem​
> All Armistice Lines and International Boundaries are separate and distinct subordinate forms in the family of Demarcation Lines.  But not all Demarcation Lines are International Boundaries or Armistice Lines.
> 
> Both Armistice Lines were to remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties was achieved.  The Armistice Lines do not exist anymore, having been replaced by:
> 
> ◈ Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, 26 March 1979 •
> 
> ◈ Thel Peace Treaty between the  Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the Government of the State of Israel,  October 26, 1994 •​
> There is no international documentation _(per se)_ for the International Recognition of the West Bank and Gaza Strip boundaries, except as may be construed by the Oslo Accords.  Some outside observers call this the occupied Palestinian territories (oPt).  But even that is questionable.
> 
> *(EPILOG)*
> 
> Not even a Blind Man misconstrue the physical boundaries as marked-out by the Israelis.  The State of Israel takes the territorial integrity of their sovereignty very seriously.
> 
> I do not believe that the Arab Palestinians agree among themselves what the borders of their country are, if indeed, there is a country.  But as for sovereignty, only Area "A" meets the definition of Arab Palestinian sovereign territory.
> 
> In *Area A*, the main Arab urban areas, Israel has fully withdrawn. The PA has complete control over all civilian administration, and its paramilitary police force is in charge of security.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Rocco, you work on the assumption that Israel can unilaterally claim land and set borders by military force. Of the tons of documents you have posted, none have claimed this to be legitimate.

The armistice lines run around and through Palestine without making any claim to be political or territorial boundaries. They did not change Palestine's international borders.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Rocco, you work on the assumption that Israel can unilaterally claim land and set borders by military force. Of the tons of documents you have posted, none have claimed this to be legitimate.



On the contrary, I believe Rocco is working from the "assumption" (actual international law), that a State which holds sovereign territory can, in fact, unilaterally abandon that territory.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

What do you think the establishment_ (through self-determination)_ of territorial integrity and sovereignty means?

By the right of self-determination the Jewish People, under the sanction of the United Nations, established the Stae of Israel as the Jewish National Home.

First, the Jewish People were threatened by the Arab Palestinians by violence.  Then the Arab Palestinians took a two-pronged approach.  One prong was the incitement of the Arab League to militarily intervene.  The second prong was the political movement that has an armed component (Jihadist).



P F Tinmore said:


> Rocco, you work on the assumption that Israel can unilaterally claim land and set borders by military force. Of the tons of documents you have posted, none have claimed this to be legitimate.
> 
> The armistice lines run around and through Palestine without making any claim to be political or territorial boundaries. They did not change Palestine's international borders.


*(COMMENT)*

The reality is, that the boundaries are there, in place and defended.  That is the reality, and no politically motivated manipulation of the law is going to change that simple fact.

The short version to the story is this:

◈  The Allied Powers wanted to allow the Jewish People an oppotunity to develop.

◈  The Arab Palestinians and antisemetic Arab League did not want that.

◈  The Allied Powers made a Plan and put it into effect.

◈  The Jewish People Accepted the Plan.

◈  The Arab Palestinians rejected the Plan.

◈  The Jewish People moved forward politically, economically, commercially, and in the many windows they excelled.

◈  The Arab Palestinians did not establish a foothold or platform supporting any measure of success.

◈  The Arab Palestinians choose to adopt armed stuggle and Islamic Fanatisism.

◈  In the seven decades since, Israel which was opposed and shunned by all its Arab Neighbors in the Middle East and North Africa → Israel excelled beyond every single Arab League member nation in the ranges measured by the Human Develoment scales.  In that same period, through three significant conflicts supported by the Arab League members, not one Arab state was able to immulate any of the successes Israel has shown.​
This is a strange set of observations.  Logic would suggest that it is more profitable to follow Israel's lead.  But instead, the Arab Community is actively combative, most of whom are not very protective.  The Muslim world is ≈ 110+ time larger than the of the Jews.  However, the Muslim World has only managed to produce 10 Nobel Laureates while Israel has produced ≈ 190+.

One can only wonder why the Muslim antisemitic people, especially the Arab Palestinian, might take the hostile approach towards Israel → as opposed to promoting a collaborative effort.   The stock answer I get is that the Israelis hold the Arab Palestinians down.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> What do you think the establishment_ (through self-determination)_ of territorial integrity and sovereignty means?
> 
> By the right of self-determination the Jewish People, under the sanction of the United Nations, established the Stae of Israel as the Jewish National Home.
> 
> First, the Jewish People were threatened by the Arab Palestinians by violence.  Then the Arab Palestinians took a two-pronged approach.  One prong was the incitement of the Arab League to militarily intervene.  The second prong was the political movement that has an armed component (Jihadist).
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rocco, you work on the assumption that Israel can unilaterally claim land and set borders by military force. Of the tons of documents you have posted, none have claimed this to be legitimate.
> 
> The armistice lines run around and through Palestine without making any claim to be political or territorial boundaries. They did not change Palestine's international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The reality is, that the boundaries are there, in place and defended.  That is the reality, and no politically motivated manipulation of the law is going to change that simple fact.
> 
> The short version to the story is this:
> 
> ◈  The Allied Powers wanted to allow the Jewish People an oppotunity to develop.
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians and antisemetic Arab League did not want that.
> 
> ◈  The Allied Powers made a Plan and put it into effect.
> 
> ◈  The Jewish People Accepted the Plan.
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians rejected the Plan.
> 
> ◈  The Jewish People moved forward politically, economically, commercially, and in the many windows they excelled.
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians did not establish a foothold or platform supporting any measure of success.
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians choose to adopt armed stuggle and Islamic Fanatisism.
> 
> ◈  In the seven decades since, Israel which was opposed and shunned by all its Arab Neighbors in the Middle East and North Africa → Israel excelled beyond every single Arab League member nation in the ranges measured by the Human Develoment scales.  In that same period, through three significant conflicts supported by the Arab League members, not one Arab state was able to immulate any of the successes Israel has shown.​
> This is a strange set of observations.  Logic would suggest that it is more profitable to follow Israel's lead.  But instead, the Arab Community is actively combative, most of whom are not very protective.  The Muslim world is ≈ 110+ time larger than the of the Jews.  However, the Muslim World has only managed to produce 10 Nobel Laureates while Israel has produced ≈ 190+.
> 
> One can only wonder why the Muslim antisemitic people, especially the Arab Palestinian, might take the hostile approach towards Israel → as opposed to promoting a collaborative effort.   The stock answer I get is that the Israelis hold the Arab Palestinians down.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are ducking my post.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

No, I'm not.



P F Tinmore said:


> You are ducking my post.


*(COMMENT)*

No matter what you think the Armistice Lines do, they are no more, having been replaced by negotiated Treaty Borders.

The Armistice Lines never applied to the Arab Palestinians, as the Arab Palestinians were never a party to the Armistice.

With the exception of the few Agreements _ [AGREEMENT ON THE GAZA STRIP AND THE JERICHO AREA (1994) and the Oslo Accords (1993 & 1995)]_ of the No "negotiated document" _(with any state)_ can you raise, that outlines any Arab Palestinian Territory where the Arab Palestinian is the Sovereign Authority _(not for the last thousand years)_.

I honestly try not to duck your posts.  But I often have apprehension as to your questions.  

Most Respectfully,
R
*



*


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> No, I'm not.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are ducking my post.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No matter what you think the Armistice Lines do, they are no more, having been replaced by negotiated Treaty Borders.
> 
> The Armistice Lines never applied to the Arab Palestinians, as the Arab Palestinians were never a party to the Armistice.
> 
> With the exception of the few Agreements _ [AGREEMENT ON THE GAZA STRIP AND THE JERICHO AREA (1994) and the Oslo Accords (1993 & 1995)]_ of the No "negotiated document" _(with any state)_ can you raise, that outlines any Arab Palestinian Territory where the Arab Palestinian is the Sovereign Authority _(not for the last thousand years)_.
> 
> I honestly try not to duck your posts.  But I often have apprehension as to your questions.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> *
> 
> 
> *
Click to expand...

The Palestinians have never entered into a treaty ceding a defined territory or setting any international borders.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> No, I'm not.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are ducking my post.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No matter what you think the Armistice Lines do, they are no more, having been replaced by negotiated Treaty Borders.
> 
> The Armistice Lines never applied to the Arab Palestinians, as the Arab Palestinians were never a party to the Armistice.
> 
> With the exception of the few Agreements _ [AGREEMENT ON THE GAZA STRIP AND THE JERICHO AREA (1994) and the Oslo Accords (1993 & 1995)]_ of the No "negotiated document" _(with any state)_ can you raise, that outlines any Arab Palestinian Territory where the Arab Palestinian is the Sovereign Authority _(not for the last thousand years)_.
> 
> I honestly try not to duck your posts.  But I often have apprehension as to your questions.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> *
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have never entered into a treaty ceding a defined territory or setting any international borders.
Click to expand...


They were never in any position to do that.


----------



## Hollie

Shusha said:


> I feel a "how does that refute my post" coming on.



He saw your comment and used another of his usual cut and paste slogans:

_You are ducking my post™️_


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> No, I'm not.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are ducking my post.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No matter what you think the Armistice Lines do, they are no more, having been replaced by negotiated Treaty Borders.
> 
> The Armistice Lines never applied to the Arab Palestinians, as the Arab Palestinians were never a party to the Armistice.
> 
> With the exception of the few Agreements _ [AGREEMENT ON THE GAZA STRIP AND THE JERICHO AREA (1994) and the Oslo Accords (1993 & 1995)]_ of the No "negotiated document" _(with any state)_ can you raise, that outlines any Arab Palestinian Territory where the Arab Palestinian is the Sovereign Authority _(not for the last thousand years)_.
> 
> I honestly try not to duck your posts.  But I often have apprehension as to your questions.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> *
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have never entered into a treaty ceding a defined territory or setting any international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were never in any position to do that.
Click to expand...

Of course they are. Borders is a final status issue to be negotiated by the Palestinians.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> No, I'm not.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are ducking my post.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No matter what you think the Armistice Lines do, they are no more, having been replaced by negotiated Treaty Borders.
> 
> The Armistice Lines never applied to the Arab Palestinians, as the Arab Palestinians were never a party to the Armistice.
> 
> With the exception of the few Agreements _ [AGREEMENT ON THE GAZA STRIP AND THE JERICHO AREA (1994) and the Oslo Accords (1993 & 1995)]_ of the No "negotiated document" _(with any state)_ can you raise, that outlines any Arab Palestinian Territory where the Arab Palestinian is the Sovereign Authority _(not for the last thousand years)_.
> 
> I honestly try not to duck your posts.  But I often have apprehension as to your questions.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> *
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have never entered into a treaty ceding a defined territory or setting any international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were never in any position to do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course they are. Borders is a final status issue to be negotiated by the Palestinians.
Click to expand...


A phony attempt to re-write history.


----------



## Hollie

Arabs-Moslems have a long, lurid history with Nazi fascism. 
*
Palestinians launch a SWASTIKA kite on Hitler's birthday during protests on the Israeli border, as female demonstrators begin the 'Women's March of Gaza' 


Palestinians launch a SWASTIKA kite on Hitler's birthday | Daily Mail Online







*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

How could you possibly know that?  Are you clairvoyant or something?



P F Tinmore said:


> Of course they are. Borders is a final status issue to be negotiated by the Palestinians.


*(COMMENT)*

Certainly, borders are an issue; but the priority of protocols have never been set.  And to my knowledge, the six principle working groups under Article V _(Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors)_ have not been established.  Plus, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), which has identified nine Article V _(PERMANENT STATUS NEGOTIATIONS)_ Issues to be discussed as a priority for discussion actually lists "Borders" as the first item.  However, an agenda list for a proposed Article V Negotiation Session has not been offered or accepted.  All we know, at this time, is that the Negotiation Affairs Department (PLO-NAD) has stated that:  "The delineation and demarcation of agreed-upon *borders are central to reaching an end of conflict* on the basis of the two-state solution." 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> How could you possibly know that?  Are you clairvoyant or something?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course they are. Borders is a final status issue to be negotiated by the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Certainly, borders are an issue; but the priority of protocols have never been set.  And to my knowledge, the six principle working groups under Article V _(Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors)_ have not been established.  Plus, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), which has identified nine Article V _(PERMANENT STATUS NEGOTIATIONS)_ Issues to be discussed as a priority for discussion actually lists "Borders" as the first item.  However, an agenda list for a proposed Article V Negotiation Session has not been offered or accepted.  All we know, at this time, is that the Negotiation Affairs Department (PLO-NAD) has stated that:  "The delineation and demarcation of agreed-upon *borders are central to reaching an end of conflict* on the basis of the two-state solution."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The Palestinians are the only ones with the authority to regulate their borders.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you have your terminology confused. 



P F Tinmore said:


> ]The Palestinians are the only ones with the authority to regulate their borders.


*(COMMENT)*

Once the Arab Palestinians have established a perimeter _(we call that a border)_ around their sovereignty _(where they have exclusive governmental control)_ → THEN and only THEN → can they regulate border crossing criteria - or - as is normal - manage Immigration and naturalization _(what you call "regulate" the border)_.

At that point, they have to decide if they are going to follow the various applicable International Conventions.

But the Arab Palestinians _(with the possible exceptions of Area "A" and the Gaza Strip)_ have never established a perimeter that they can say encapsulates → their sovereignty. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think you have your terminology confused.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ]The Palestinians are the only ones with the authority to regulate their borders.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Once the Arab Palestinians have established a perimeter _(we call that a border)_ around their sovereignty _(where they have exclusive governmental control)_ → THEN and only THEN → can they regulate border crossing criteria - or - as is normal - manage Immigration and naturalization _(what you call "regulate" the border)_.
> 
> At that point, they have to decide if they are going to follow the various applicable International Conventions.
> 
> But the Arab Palestinians _(with the possible exceptions of Area "A" and the Gaza Strip)_ have never established a perimeter that they can say encapsulates → their sovereignty.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You missed the point.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> You missed the point.



^^^^ c'mon, RoccoR. You knew that was coming.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The document later on referred to incendiary balloons as well, but only said that they were launched by "demonstrators" - which means civilians to them - and with no reference to such attacks being launched by armed groups.

The only problem is that Gaza terror groups happily brag about being the organizers of units to launch firebombs on balloons.

I already posted one video by Islamic Jihad about their balloon firebomb unit. They just posted another one, seemingly to mock the UNHRC report that effectively exonerated them.

The video also shows Islamic Jihad members engaging in the "demonstrations" making it very clear that from their perspective, these border riots are purely military.

The UNHRC bent over backwards to ignore any evidence that the demonstrations had a military component because then the rules that apply to them are the laws of armed conflict, quite different from the laws that govern police actions towards civilians.

(full article and video online)

Islamic Jihad releases another video of their balloon unit - that UNHRC claims is civilian ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas Terrorists Launch Non-Stop Barrage of Balloon Bombs into Israel


----------



## Slyhunter

Sixties Fan said:


> Hamas Terrorists Launch Non-Stop Barrage of Balloon Bombs into Israel


Hit them back with Napalm.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Hamas Terrorists Launch Non-Stop Barrage of Balloon Bombs into Israel


Maybe Israeli snipers shouldn't be shooting innocent women and children?


----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah

The 300$ were worth it...


----------



## Mindful

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas Terrorists Launch Non-Stop Barrage of Balloon Bombs into Israel
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe Israeli snipers shouldn't be shooting innocent women and children?
Click to expand...



Are they?


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas Terrorists Launch Non-Stop Barrage of Balloon Bombs into Israel
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe Israeli snipers shouldn't be shooting innocent women and children?
Click to expand...


They're valuable as propaganda tools. Thats why they're at the islamic war zone. Dead martyrs walking.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists seem to believe that the gee-had is without consequence.

Islamic terrorists flying balloons are going to be at a disadvantage the the IDF flying F-15's.


*Israel carries out fresh Hamas strikes over incendiary balloons*

Israel carries out fresh Hamas strikes over incendiary balloons

Israel has struck targets in the Gaza Strip four times in the last few days each in response to either balloons or explosive devices hurled at the border fence (AFP Photo/JACK GUEZ)


Gaza City (Palestinian Territories) (AFP) - Israeli jets struck a Hamas military target in the Gaza Strip in retaliation for balloon-borne explosive devices late Tuesday, the army said, the fourth such strike in recent days.


----------



## Hollie

More fun and Islamo-games at the border gee-had.

Palestinian protestors clash with IDF forces along Gaza Strip border

WATCH: PALESTINIAN PROTESTORS CLASH WITH IDF FORCES ALONG SECURITY FORCE
By HAGAY HACOHEN
_




Palestinian protesters during March of Return Friday clashes with IDF forces MArch 8 2019 . (photo credit:" SOCIAL MEDIA)
Thousands of Palestinian protesters clashed with IDF forces on Friday throwing rocks and explosive devices. Two Palestinians breached the security fence and were arrested.

Thousands of Palestinians clashed with IDF forces on Friday afternoon during what they call 'March of Return,' IDF forces were assaulted with rocks and over 50 explosive devices.

15 attempts to breach the security fence were spotted. Roghly 8,000 Palestinians clashed with IDF forces in five different locations across the Gaza Strip Security Fence.     

Palestinian protesters attempting to breach the security fence along the Gaza Strip during March of Return events March 8 2019 / Maariv


23 year old Tamer Haled Arafat man was shot dead and 42 Palestinians were injured from IDF sniper fire, including 15 children and two women, Palestinian Ministry of Health said. 

The Ministry added that Mohammed abu Jazar, a paramedic working near Khan Yunis, was hit in the face with a 'gas bomb.' Three other paramedicas were also injured by tear gas the Ministry said.  

Two reporters were also injured, the Ministry released on social media.  

Two Palestinians breached the security fence and were able to cross over to the Israeli side where they were arrested by IDF forces and sent for further questioning. One hand-grenade and a knife were found on their person, IDF Spokesperson said.   

Extensive IDF forces were placed on alert and Jewish communities near the location of the incident were alerted, Haaretz reported. 

The protests today are the 50th in a series of Friday clashes that began when US President Donald Trump decided to move the US embassy to Jerusalem. 







_


----------



## Billo_Really

Mindful said:


> Are they?


Don't be so obtuse.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> They're valuable as propaganda tools. Thats why they're at the islamic war zone. Dead martyrs walking.


This is not a war.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're valuable as propaganda tools. Thats why they're at the islamic war zone. Dead martyrs walking.
> 
> 
> 
> This is not a war.
Click to expand...


A smirmish with dead islamic terrorists, then.


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're valuable as propaganda tools. Thats why they're at the islamic war zone. Dead martyrs walking.
> 
> 
> 
> This is not a war.
Click to expand...

Tell that to the Palestinians perpetuating it.


----------



## Hollie

Hey, knuckleheads. The gee-had is  ————- > that way.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Incendiary device said carrying missile warhead lands in Israel-Gaza border area


----------



## Sixties Fan

Escalation in Israel's south


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> A smirmish with dead islamic terrorists, then.


It's an occupational force committing war crimes.


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> Tell that to the Palestinians perpetuating it.


They are a population under the occupation of a foreign force.  They have every right in the world to protest their conditions and resist Israeli aggression.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> A smirmish with dead islamic terrorists, then.
> 
> 
> 
> It's an occupational force committing war crimes.
Click to expand...


Our_ "get Your head in the sand and butt up high"_ expert
came to give his 2c?


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> Our_ "get Your head in the sand and butt up high"_ expert
> came to give his 2c?


Hopefully, my "2c" will help bring down the cost of Milky?


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our_ "get Your head in the sand and butt up high"_ expert
> came to give his 2c?
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully, my "2c" will help bring down the cost of Milky?
Click to expand...


Where in Gaza?


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> Where in Gaza?


I don't think Milky is imported into Gaza. Israel is feeling the effects of Trump tariffs.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where in Gaza?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think Milky is imported into Gaza. Israel is feeling the effects of Trump tariffs.
Click to expand...


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


>


What, no falafal?


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What, no falafal?
Click to expand...


Don't You see it's already in?
Plenty of them.


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> Don't You see it's already in?
> Plenty of them.


Like Gazans can afford it.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't You see it's already in?
> Plenty of them.
> 
> 
> 
> Like Gazans can afford it.
Click to expand...

Trust the Gaza people

They CAN  afford it, with all the Malls they have:







They are NOT insulting your intelligence, but you would never know it.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't You see it's already in?
> Plenty of them.
> 
> 
> 
> Like Gazans can afford it.
Click to expand...


pft...cheaper than in Israel for sure,
if they can afford luxury cars they can buy YOU a falafel...stand.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  Billo_Really, et al,

*IF* you are correct, *THEN* Customary and Humanitarian Law kick in.

*ARTICLE 68* *[ ••• Link ••• ]* Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.

Protected persons* [meaning the Arab Palestinians]* who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power *[your foreign force - Israelis]*, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offence committed. Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offences, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under Article 66 [ Link ]  of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.

 The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64 [ Link ]  and 65 [ Link ]  may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offences were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began.

 The death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person unless the attention of the court has been particularly called to the fact that since the accused is not a national of the Occupying Power, he is not bound to it by any duty of allegiance.

 In any case, the death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person who was under eighteen years of age at the time of the offence.​


Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to the Palestinians perpetuating it.
> 
> 
> 
> They are a population under the occupation of a foreign force.  They have every right in the world to protest their conditions and resist Israeli aggression.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

You cannot have your cake --- and --- eat it too.   *IF* the territory is "occupied" as you say, *THEN* two conditions come into play:

◈  Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV) essentially dictates that the Arab Palestinians may not protest in such a way as to:

•  Intended to harm the Occupying Power _(ie the Israelis)_,

•  Constitute an attempt _(by the Arab Palestinians)_ on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces _(the Israeli Defense Force)_ or administration _(Israli Civil Authorities and National Police and Security Services)_,

•  The Arab Palestinians may not become a grave collective danger to the Israelis,

•  The Arab Palestinian Protests may not:

✦  Seriously damage the property of the occupying Israeli Defense Force,
✦  Seriously damage the property of the Israeli Civil Administration,
✦  Seriously damage the property of the Israeli Installations,​
•  The Arab Palestinians may not engage in espionage against the occupying forces _(the Israeli Defense Force)_ or administration _(Israli Civil Authorities and National Police and Security Services)_,

•  The Arab Palestinians may not engage in serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power,

•  The Arab Palestinians may not engage acts of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons,​◈  Article 42, Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907:

•  The Territory (in this case the Gaza Strip) is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army _(the Israeli Defense Force)_ or administration _(Israli Civil Authorities and National Police and Security Services)_.

•  The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.  IF the occupying force _(the Israeli Defense Force)_ or administration _(Israli Civil Authorities and National Police and Security Services)_ are not in such proximity as to maintain it safety and security obligations,​◈  Article 43, Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907:

•  The occupying forces _(the Israeli Defense Force)_ or administration _(Israli Civil Authorities and National Police and Security Services)_ shall take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, public order and safety,​When the pro-Arab Palestinians factions and the Hostile Arab Palestinian insist the term "occupied" is applicable, they do so without understanding the implications.

The biggest implication is that *IF* the people of the Gaza Strip insist the Gaza Strip is "occupied" *THEN* it is tantamount to saying that the occupying force _(the Israeli Defense Force)_ or administration _(Israeli Civil Authorities and National Police and Security Services)_ has the obligation to enter the territory and enforce such laws as may be necessary to meet the safety and security obligation.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> • The occupying forces _(the Israeli Defense Force)_ or administration _(Israli Civil Authorities and National Police and Security Services)_ shall take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, public order and safety,


Israel's big joke.


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to the Palestinians perpetuating it.
> 
> 
> 
> They are a population under the occupation of a foreign force.  They have every right in the world to protest their conditions and resist Israeli aggression.
Click to expand...

They're unwanted squatters.


----------



## Hollie

It seems the Hamas sponsored border gee-had is still drawing vacant minded Arabs-Moslems to the riots. 

I guess the Islamic welfare fraud recipients have nothing else to do.

Israel shoots one man dead on Gaza border

Israeli forces have shot dead one Palestinian man and wounded 42 others who were taking part in protests at the border with Gaza.

Israel said more than 8,000 people were involved in the demonstrations, throwing rocks and explosives.


----------



## Billo_Really

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Billo_Really, et al,
> 
> *IF* you are correct, *THEN* Customary and Humanitarian Law kick in.
> 
> *ARTICLE 68* *[ ••• Link ••• ]* Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
> 
> Protected persons* [meaning the Arab Palestinians]* who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power *[your foreign force - Israelis]*, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offence committed. Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offences, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under Article 66 [ Link ]  of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.
> 
> The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64 [ Link ]  and 65 [ Link ]  may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offences were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began.
> 
> The death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person unless the attention of the court has been particularly called to the fact that since the accused is not a national of the Occupying Power, he is not bound to it by any duty of allegiance.
> 
> In any case, the death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person who was under eighteen years of age at the time of the offence.​
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to the Palestinians perpetuating it.
> 
> 
> 
> They are a population under the occupation of a foreign force.  They have every right in the world to protest their conditions and resist Israeli aggression.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You cannot have your cake --- and --- eat it too.   *IF* the territory is "occupied" as you say, *THEN* two conditions come into play:
> 
> ◈  Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV) essentially dictates that the Arab Palestinians may not protest in such a way as to:
> 
> •  Intended to harm the Occupying Power _(ie the Israelis)_,
> 
> •  Constitute an attempt _(by the Arab Palestinians)_ on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces _(the Israeli Defense Force)_ or administration _(Israli Civil Authorities and National Police and Security Services)_,
> 
> •  The Arab Palestinians may not become a grave collective danger to the Israelis,
> 
> •  The Arab Palestinian Protests may not:
> 
> ✦  Seriously damage the property of the occupying Israeli Defense Force,
> ✦  Seriously damage the property of the Israeli Civil Administration,
> ✦  Seriously damage the property of the Israeli Installations,​
> •  The Arab Palestinians may not engage in espionage against the occupying forces _(the Israeli Defense Force)_ or administration _(Israli Civil Authorities and National Police and Security Services)_,
> 
> •  The Arab Palestinians may not engage in serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power,
> 
> •  The Arab Palestinians may not engage acts of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons,​◈  Article 42, Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907:
> 
> •  The Territory (in this case the Gaza Strip) is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army _(the Israeli Defense Force)_ or administration _(Israli Civil Authorities and National Police and Security Services)_.
> 
> •  The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.  IF the occupying force _(the Israeli Defense Force)_ or administration _(Israli Civil Authorities and National Police and Security Services)_ are not in such proximity as to maintain it safety and security obligations,​◈  Article 43, Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907:
> 
> •  The occupying forces _(the Israeli Defense Force)_ or administration _(Israli Civil Authorities and National Police and Security Services)_ shall take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, public order and safety,​When the pro-Arab Palestinians factions and the Hostile Arab Palestinian insist the term "occupied" is applicable, they do so without understanding the implications.
> 
> The biggest implication is that *IF* the people of the Gaza Strip insist the Gaza Strip is "occupied" *THEN* it is tantamount to saying that the occupying force _(the Israeli Defense Force)_ or administration _(Israeli Civil Authorities and National Police and Security Services)_ has the obligation to enter the territory and enforce such laws as may be necessary to meet the safety and security obligation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

What is with your data dumps?  Can't you be more succinct?  As far as your protected persons point, the Israelis didn't put these protesters in prison.  They gunned them down where they stood.  In the 189 fatalities at the hands of Israeli snipers, only 2 were ruled justified.  You deliberately murdered 187 people.


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> They're unwanted squatters.


They're not squatting.  Israel has no title to that land.


----------



## Mindful

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're unwanted squatters.
> 
> 
> 
> They're not squatting.  Israel has no title to that land.
Click to expand...


Who has, then?


----------



## Mindful

_Who owns the West Bank? _Israel’s official stand is “We’re thinking, we’re thinking.” The West Bank was part of the Palestine Mandate— the land where the League of Nations proclaimed that the Jewish homeland should be set up (and the United Nations was never authorized to change that decision). In practice it was acquired by Israel in a war of self-defense against Jordan, and not only is that traditionally a legitimate acquisition of territory, but in addition Jordan has renounced its claim to the West Bank. Jordan never had a legitimate claim anyway, having acquired the West Bank in an aggressive, not defensive, war.

Quora


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> As far as your protected persons point, the Israelis didn't put these protesters in prison.  They gunned them down where they stood.  In the 189 fatalities at the hands of Israeli snipers, only 2 were ruled justified.  You deliberately murdered 187 people.



Are you saying that Israel SHOULD be going into Gaza to arrest people?  What happened to your frequent comment that Israel has no right to step intoned gaza territory?  

And rules justified by whom?  What criteria do they use for "justified"?


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Billo_Really, et al,
> 
> *IF* you are correct, *THEN* Customary and Humanitarian Law kick in.
> 
> *ARTICLE 68* *[ ••• Link ••• ]* Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
> 
> Protected persons* [meaning the Arab Palestinians]* who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power *[your foreign force - Israelis]*, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offence committed. Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offences, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under Article 66 [ Link ]  of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.
> 
> The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64 [ Link ]  and 65 [ Link ]  may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offences were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began.
> 
> The death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person unless the attention of the court has been particularly called to the fact that since the accused is not a national of the Occupying Power, he is not bound to it by any duty of allegiance.
> 
> In any case, the death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person who was under eighteen years of age at the time of the offence.​
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to the Palestinians perpetuating it.
> 
> 
> 
> They are a population under the occupation of a foreign force.  They have every right in the world to protest their conditions and resist Israeli aggression.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You cannot have your cake --- and --- eat it too.   *IF* the territory is "occupied" as you say, *THEN* two conditions come into play:
> 
> ◈  Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV) essentially dictates that the Arab Palestinians may not protest in such a way as to:
> 
> •  Intended to harm the Occupying Power _(ie the Israelis)_,
> 
> •  Constitute an attempt _(by the Arab Palestinians)_ on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces _(the Israeli Defense Force)_ or administration _(Israli Civil Authorities and National Police and Security Services)_,
> 
> •  The Arab Palestinians may not become a grave collective danger to the Israelis,
> 
> •  The Arab Palestinian Protests may not:
> 
> ✦  Seriously damage the property of the occupying Israeli Defense Force,
> ✦  Seriously damage the property of the Israeli Civil Administration,
> ✦  Seriously damage the property of the Israeli Installations,​
> •  The Arab Palestinians may not engage in espionage against the occupying forces _(the Israeli Defense Force)_ or administration _(Israli Civil Authorities and National Police and Security Services)_,
> 
> •  The Arab Palestinians may not engage in serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power,
> 
> •  The Arab Palestinians may not engage acts of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons,​◈  Article 42, Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907:
> 
> •  The Territory (in this case the Gaza Strip) is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army _(the Israeli Defense Force)_ or administration _(Israli Civil Authorities and National Police and Security Services)_.
> 
> •  The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.  IF the occupying force _(the Israeli Defense Force)_ or administration _(Israli Civil Authorities and National Police and Security Services)_ are not in such proximity as to maintain it safety and security obligations,​◈  Article 43, Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907:
> 
> •  The occupying forces _(the Israeli Defense Force)_ or administration _(Israli Civil Authorities and National Police and Security Services)_ shall take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, public order and safety,​When the pro-Arab Palestinians factions and the Hostile Arab Palestinian insist the term "occupied" is applicable, they do so without understanding the implications.
> 
> The biggest implication is that *IF* the people of the Gaza Strip insist the Gaza Strip is "occupied" *THEN* it is tantamount to saying that the occupying force _(the Israeli Defense Force)_ or administration _(Israeli Civil Authorities and National Police and Security Services)_ has the obligation to enter the territory and enforce such laws as may be necessary to meet the safety and security obligation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is with your data dumps?  Can't you be more succinct?  As far as your protected persons point, the Israelis didn't put these protesters in prison.  They gunned them down where they stood.  In the 189 fatalities at the hands of Israeli snipers, only 2 were ruled justified.  You deliberately murdered 187 people.
Click to expand...


Why do you deny the intent of the Islamic border riots (to “rip the hearts out of the Jews”), and the right of the Israelis to protect themselves?

Hamas has a graduated pay scale for the vacant-minded wannabe border crashes who took one for the cause. Who are you to define how the wannabes make a few bucks?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> _Who owns the West Bank? _Israel’s official stand is “We’re thinking, we’re thinking.” The West Bank was part of the Palestine Mandate— the land where the League of Nations proclaimed that the Jewish homeland should be set up (and the United Nations was never authorized to change that decision). In practice it was acquired by Israel in a war of self-defense against Jordan, and not only is that traditionally a legitimate acquisition of territory, but in addition Jordan has renounced its claim to the West Bank. Jordan never had a legitimate claim anyway, having acquired the West Bank in an aggressive, not defensive, war.
> 
> Quora





Mindful said:


> but in addition Jordan has renounced its claim to the West Bank. Jordan never had a legitimate claim anyway,


How can Jordan renounce a claim to something they never had?

Ziologic.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> As far as your protected persons point, the Israelis didn't put these protesters in prison.  They gunned them down where they stood.  In the 189 fatalities at the hands of Israeli snipers, only 2 were ruled justified.  You deliberately murdered 187 people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that Israel SHOULD be going into Gaza to arrest people?  What happened to your frequent comment that Israel has no right to step intoned gaza territory?
> 
> And rules justified by whom?  What criteria do they use for "justified"?
Click to expand...

Article 68 requires police response not a military response.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> As far as your protected persons point, the Israelis didn't put these protesters in prison.  They gunned them down where they stood.  In the 189 fatalities at the hands of Israeli snipers, only 2 were ruled justified.  You deliberately murdered 187 people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that Israel SHOULD be going into Gaza to arrest people?  What happened to your frequent comment that Israel has no right to step intoned gaza territory?
> 
> And rules justified by whom?  What criteria do they use for "justified"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Article 68 requires police response not a military response.
Click to expand...


I guess the Israeli police can rely on you to direct traffic when they enter the Islamic terrorist enclave to arrest islsmic terrorists.


----------



## RoccoR

"RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, we've all heard this whining before.

The Arab Palestinians make decisions and then when the outcome and consequences are not to their liking, the make a complaint saying that they were (somehow) at a disadvantage.

In over a 100 years, the Arab Palestinians have not been able to take responsibility for their future and destiny in any fashion.  They always need a responsible adult to look after their interests.  They are not capable of making a decision on their own behalf. 



P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> but in addition, Jordan has renounced its claim to the West Bank. Jordan never had a legitimate claim anyway,
> 
> 
> 
> How can Jordan renounce a claim to something they never had?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Between April 1950 "elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine.  (*SOURCE LINK*)  The decisions made in April 1950 by the Arab Palestinians, became known as the "Unification of the Two Banks."  In the 38 years that followed the Arab Palestinians did not fight the annexation.  On the contrary, the Arab Palestinians attempted to expand their control and forcibly bring down the Hashemite Kingdom.  In the Seven decades since the establishment of the State of Israel, the Arab Palestinians had always claimed they were unable to establish their own self-governing institution.

There is a great difference between the reality of an actual establishment of control and the theoretical establishment of a self-governing institution.

Even the Gaza and Ramallah Governments _(such as they are)_ which have been unable, totally incapable of bringing any kind of semblance of a honest government forward, has spent much of their time end fighting among themselves and being a disintegrated state where basic conditions and responsibilities of a sovereign government never had the necessary leadership to function properly.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> "RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, we've all heard this whining before.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians make decisions and then when the outcome and consequences are not to their liking, the make a complaint saying that they were (somehow) at a disadvantage.
> 
> In over a 100 years, the Arab Palestinians have not been able to take responsibility for their future and destiny in any fashion.  They always need a responsible adult to look after their interests.  They are not capable of making a decision on their own behalf.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> but in addition, Jordan has renounced its claim to the West Bank. Jordan never had a legitimate claim anyway,
> 
> 
> 
> How can Jordan renounce a claim to something they never had?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Between April 1950 "elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine.  (*SOURCE LINK*)  The decisions made in April 1950 by the Arab Palestinians, became known as the "Unification of the Two Banks."  In the 38 years that followed the Arab Palestinians did not fight the annexation.  On the contrary, the Arab Palestinians attempted to expand their control and forcibly bring down the Hashemite Kingdom.  In the Seven decades since the establishment of the State of Israel, the Arab Palestinians had always claimed they were unable to establish their own self-governing institution.
> 
> There is a great difference between the reality of an actual establishment of control and the theoretical establishment of a self-governing institution.
> 
> Even the Gaza and Ramallah Governments _(such as they are)_ which have been unable, totally incapable of bringing any kind of semblance of a honest government forward, has spent much of their time end fighting among themselves and being a disintegrated state where basic conditions and responsibilities of a sovereign government never had the necessary leadership to function properly.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Arab Palestinians make decisions and then when the outcome and consequences are not to their liking, the make a complaint saying that they were (somehow) at a disadvantage.


Stupid post.

What decisions can they make while under military occupation?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, we've all heard this whining before.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians make decisions and then when the outcome and consequences are not to their liking, the make a complaint saying that they were (somehow) at a disadvantage.
> 
> In over a 100 years, the Arab Palestinians have not been able to take responsibility for their future and destiny in any fashion.  They always need a responsible adult to look after their interests.  They are not capable of making a decision on their own behalf.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> but in addition, Jordan has renounced its claim to the West Bank. Jordan never had a legitimate claim anyway,
> 
> 
> 
> How can Jordan renounce a claim to something they never had?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Between April 1950 "elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine.  (*SOURCE LINK*)  The decisions made in April 1950 by the Arab Palestinians, became known as the "Unification of the Two Banks."  In the 38 years that followed the Arab Palestinians did not fight the annexation.  On the contrary, the Arab Palestinians attempted to expand their control and forcibly bring down the Hashemite Kingdom.  In the Seven decades since the establishment of the State of Israel, the Arab Palestinians had always claimed they were unable to establish their own self-governing institution.
> 
> There is a great difference between the reality of an actual establishment of control and the theoretical establishment of a self-governing institution.
> 
> Even the Gaza and Ramallah Governments _(such as they are)_ which have been unable, totally incapable of bringing any kind of semblance of a honest government forward, has spent much of their time end fighting among themselves and being a disintegrated state where basic conditions and responsibilities of a sovereign government never had the necessary leadership to function properly.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians make decisions and then when the outcome and consequences are not to their liking, the make a complaint saying that they were (somehow) at a disadvantage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> What decisions can they make while under military occupation?
Click to expand...

The only military occupation the Palestinians are under are their own military.

What?  You are still not aware that Hamas and and other factions in Gaza have militaries, with weapons, uniforms and the whole thing which other militaries have?

But of course neither Israel nor Egypt (remember Egypt? ) will allow them to have planes and other nasty things to hit both countries with.

Remember the Muslim Brotherhood?  Hamas is an offshoot of it.
And "normal" Muslims do not like the aggression and need to take over other Muslims territories, which Hamas is also into.

Hamas can make the decision to do away with the Charter for the destruction of Israel and CHOOSE   PEACE.

Two very simple words, any government like Hamas .....and PLO....should eventually come to....

That is if only Qatar, the UN, EU and others stop drowning Gaza with money to build weapons and fire them at Israel.


Decision 1 :  Good for all in Gaza....and areas A and B as well.


CHOOSE    PEACE !!!!


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israeli soldier shares the disturbing truth at the EU Parliament


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, we've all heard this whining before.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians make decisions and then when the outcome and consequences are not to their liking, the make a complaint saying that they were (somehow) at a disadvantage.
> 
> In over a 100 years, the Arab Palestinians have not been able to take responsibility for their future and destiny in any fashion.  They always need a responsible adult to look after their interests.  They are not capable of making a decision on their own behalf.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> but in addition, Jordan has renounced its claim to the West Bank. Jordan never had a legitimate claim anyway,
> 
> 
> 
> How can Jordan renounce a claim to something they never had?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Between April 1950 "elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine.  (*SOURCE LINK*)  The decisions made in April 1950 by the Arab Palestinians, became known as the "Unification of the Two Banks."  In the 38 years that followed the Arab Palestinians did not fight the annexation.  On the contrary, the Arab Palestinians attempted to expand their control and forcibly bring down the Hashemite Kingdom.  In the Seven decades since the establishment of the State of Israel, the Arab Palestinians had always claimed they were unable to establish their own self-governing institution.
> 
> There is a great difference between the reality of an actual establishment of control and the theoretical establishment of a self-governing institution.
> 
> Even the Gaza and Ramallah Governments _(such as they are)_ which have been unable, totally incapable of bringing any kind of semblance of a honest government forward, has spent much of their time end fighting among themselves and being a disintegrated state where basic conditions and responsibilities of a sovereign government never had the necessary leadership to function properly.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians make decisions and then when the outcome and consequences are not to their liking, the make a complaint saying that they were (somehow) at a disadvantage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> What decisions can they make while under military occupation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only military occupation the Palestinians are under are their own military.
> 
> What?  You are still not aware that Hamas and and other factions in Gaza have militaries, with weapons, uniforms and the whole thing which other militaries have?
> 
> But of course neither Israel nor Egypt (remember Egypt? ) will allow them to have planes and other nasty things to hit both countries with.
> 
> Remember the Muslim Brotherhood?  Hamas is an offshoot of it.
> And "normal" Muslims do not like the aggression and need to take over other Muslims territories, which Hamas is also into.
> 
> Hamas can make the decision to do away with the Charter for the destruction of Israel and CHOOSE   PEACE.
> 
> Two very simple words, any government like Hamas .....and PLO....should eventually come to....
> 
> That is if only Qatar, the UN, EU and others stop drowning Gaza with money to build weapons and fire them at Israel.
> 
> 
> Decision 1 :  Good for all in Gaza....and areas A and B as well.
> 
> 
> CHOOSE    PEACE !!!!
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, we've all heard this whining before.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians make decisions and then when the outcome and consequences are not to their liking, the make a complaint saying that they were (somehow) at a disadvantage.
> 
> In over a 100 years, the Arab Palestinians have not been able to take responsibility for their future and destiny in any fashion.  They always need a responsible adult to look after their interests.  They are not capable of making a decision on their own behalf.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> but in addition, Jordan has renounced its claim to the West Bank. Jordan never had a legitimate claim anyway,
> 
> 
> 
> How can Jordan renounce a claim to something they never had?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Between April 1950 "elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine.  (*SOURCE LINK*)  The decisions made in April 1950 by the Arab Palestinians, became known as the "Unification of the Two Banks."  In the 38 years that followed the Arab Palestinians did not fight the annexation.  On the contrary, the Arab Palestinians attempted to expand their control and forcibly bring down the Hashemite Kingdom.  In the Seven decades since the establishment of the State of Israel, the Arab Palestinians had always claimed they were unable to establish their own self-governing institution.
> 
> There is a great difference between the reality of an actual establishment of control and the theoretical establishment of a self-governing institution.
> 
> Even the Gaza and Ramallah Governments _(such as they are)_ which have been unable, totally incapable of bringing any kind of semblance of a honest government forward, has spent much of their time end fighting among themselves and being a disintegrated state where basic conditions and responsibilities of a sovereign government never had the necessary leadership to function properly.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians make decisions and then when the outcome and consequences are not to their liking, the make a complaint saying that they were (somehow) at a disadvantage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> What decisions can they make while under military occupation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only military occupation the Palestinians are under are their own military.
> 
> What?  You are still not aware that Hamas and and other factions in Gaza have militaries, with weapons, uniforms and the whole thing which other militaries have?
> 
> But of course neither Israel nor Egypt (remember Egypt? ) will allow them to have planes and other nasty things to hit both countries with.
> 
> Remember the Muslim Brotherhood?  Hamas is an offshoot of it.
> And "normal" Muslims do not like the aggression and need to take over other Muslims territories, which Hamas is also into.
> 
> Hamas can make the decision to do away with the Charter for the destruction of Israel and CHOOSE   PEACE.
> 
> Two very simple words, any government like Hamas .....and PLO....should eventually come to....
> 
> That is if only Qatar, the UN, EU and others stop drowning Gaza with money to build weapons and fire them at Israel.
> 
> 
> Decision 1 :  Good for all in Gaza....and areas A and B as well.
> 
> 
> CHOOSE    PEACE !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


More of the expected sidestepping and denial.

Why not offer a YouTube video showing Hamas and their silly fashion show parades with the islamic terrorist army (_men in ski masks_), dressed in military style uniforms? Isn't it strange that your islamic terrorist heroes somehow find uniforms for fashion show parades but they dont wear those uniforms at the border gee-had war they are fighting.

Why don't we see the armed soldiers of your invented "country of Pal'istan" wearing their fasion show uniforms when attacking the israeli border?

Why is the "country of Pal'istan" sending (and paying) civilians to riot at the border gee-had when Hamas has a military (with uniforms), they could muster at the border? In view of the hero status that Hamas and the PA slather on civilians who die while in the service of attacking Jews, one would think that there must be a willingness on the part of the Hamas and PA leadership to lead a military charge at the israeli border.


----------



## Hollie

March of return?

A better title would be "what a bunch of sniveling cowards"
*


Hamas is sending civilians in Gaza to die 
for media coverage, says Abbas’ advisor*

by Itamar Marcus

Mahmoud Abbas’ senior advisor has accused Hamas of intentionally sending Palestinians in Gaza to “go and die,” for the sole purpose that Hamas will have stories of dead Palestinians to tell the media.



Mahmoud Al-Habbash, Abbas’ Advisor on Islamic Affairs and Supreme Sharia Judge, delivered a sermon on Friday from the PA headquarters in Ramallah, in the presence of Mahmoud Abbas. He accused Hamas of deliberately encouraging civilians to endanger themselves: “You Palestinians, our people, go and die so that we’ll go to the TV and media with strong declarations.”

Al-Habbash claimed that the Palestinian population are not being fooled by Hamas anymore, and “sides with the PLO.”

*Mahmoud Al-Habbash, Abbas’ Advisor on Islamic Affairs and Supreme Sharia Judge:*
“The Palestinian people... doesn’t care about those [Hamas] with ‘the emotional stories of heroism,’ those with the slogans of heroism - slogans that when you hear them, you think that the people saying them are inside the Al-Aqsa Mosque after they liberated it. And afterwards you discover that they’re only selling illusions, trading in suffering and blood, trading in victims, [saying]: ‘You Palestinians, our people, go and die so that we’ll go to the TV and media with strong declarations.’ These [Hamas] acts of ‘heroism’ don’t fool anyone anymore. The Palestinian people... sides with the PLO.”
[Official PA TV, April 6, 2018]
*Click to view*




While Abbas’ advisor was criticizing Hamas for sending Palestinians to their death, Abbas’ Fatah Movement celebrated the participation of an infant in the Gaza demonstrations. Fatah posted a photo of a six-month-old baby who had been placed on a pile of tires. The tires would eventually be burned at the Gaza demonstrations:
*Posted text:* “A child no older than six months was among the participants in the demonstrations today (Friday) [April 6, 2018] and in the March of Return events on the eastern border of the Gaza Strip”
[Official Fatah Facebook page, April 6, 2018]


----------



## Hollie

After another day of fun and games at the border gee-had, the "Poor, oppressed Pal'istanians" have one question: "what's for lunch"

After Deadly Protests, Gazans Ask: What Was Accomplished?

Image_



_


----------



## Hollie

Do Arabs-Moslems ever bother to ask themselves: “why are we so stupid”?


Hamas leader admits Marches of Return were staged to avert internal crisis


Gaza's terror head Yahya Sinwar says weekly violent marches were used to divert pressure onto Israel and prevent an 'internal explosion' after reconciliation efforts with Fatah were 'sabotaged'; Sinwar also clarifies no ceasefire agreement reached with Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Sadly, it reflects in a very negative manner on the integrity and professionalism of the members of the commission who appear to have worked without the requisite expert and professional military advice so essential to any examination of the military situation in the area of events. It is all the more regrettable that this report will doubtless be interpreted by Hamas and the other terrorist elements involved, as granting a green light to further terror activity against Israel, in the knowledge that the UN Human Rights Council chooses to direct its criticism solely against Israel.

(full article online)

The UN Human Rights Council Report on Israel's Response to the Gaza Border Riots


----------



## Sixties Fan

Weekly Hamas-spurred protests along the Gaza-Israel border were called off Friday after a serious escalation overnight between Palestinian terrorists and Israel, organizers announced, the first time they have not been held in almost a year.

(full article online)

For first time in nearly a year, Hamas calls off weekly Gaza border protest


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, we've all heard this whining before.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians make decisions and then when the outcome and consequences are not to their liking, the make a complaint saying that they were (somehow) at a disadvantage.
> 
> In over a 100 years, the Arab Palestinians have not been able to take responsibility for their future and destiny in any fashion.  They always need a responsible adult to look after their interests.  They are not capable of making a decision on their own behalf.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can Jordan renounce a claim to something they never had?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Between April 1950 "elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine.  (*SOURCE LINK*)  The decisions made in April 1950 by the Arab Palestinians, became known as the "Unification of the Two Banks."  In the 38 years that followed the Arab Palestinians did not fight the annexation.  On the contrary, the Arab Palestinians attempted to expand their control and forcibly bring down the Hashemite Kingdom.  In the Seven decades since the establishment of the State of Israel, the Arab Palestinians had always claimed they were unable to establish their own self-governing institution.
> 
> There is a great difference between the reality of an actual establishment of control and the theoretical establishment of a self-governing institution.
> 
> Even the Gaza and Ramallah Governments _(such as they are)_ which have been unable, totally incapable of bringing any kind of semblance of a honest government forward, has spent much of their time end fighting among themselves and being a disintegrated state where basic conditions and responsibilities of a sovereign government never had the necessary leadership to function properly.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians make decisions and then when the outcome and consequences are not to their liking, the make a complaint saying that they were (somehow) at a disadvantage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> What decisions can they make while under military occupation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only military occupation the Palestinians are under are their own military.
> 
> What?  You are still not aware that Hamas and and other factions in Gaza have militaries, with weapons, uniforms and the whole thing which other militaries have?
> 
> But of course neither Israel nor Egypt (remember Egypt? ) will allow them to have planes and other nasty things to hit both countries with.
> 
> Remember the Muslim Brotherhood?  Hamas is an offshoot of it.
> And "normal" Muslims do not like the aggression and need to take over other Muslims territories, which Hamas is also into.
> 
> Hamas can make the decision to do away with the Charter for the destruction of Israel and CHOOSE   PEACE.
> 
> Two very simple words, any government like Hamas .....and PLO....should eventually come to....
> 
> That is if only Qatar, the UN, EU and others stop drowning Gaza with money to build weapons and fire them at Israel.
> 
> 
> Decision 1 :  Good for all in Gaza....and areas A and B as well.
> 
> 
> CHOOSE    PEACE !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More of the expected sidestepping and denial.
> 
> Why not offer a YouTube video showing Hamas and their silly fashion show parades with the islamic terrorist army (_men in ski masks_), dressed in military style uniforms? Isn't it strange that your islamic terrorist heroes somehow find uniforms for fashion show parades but they dont wear those uniforms at the border gee-had war they are fighting.
> 
> Why don't we see the armed soldiers of your invented "country of Pal'istan" wearing their fasion show uniforms when attacking the israeli border?
> 
> Why is the "country of Pal'istan" sending (and paying) civilians to riot at the border gee-had when Hamas has a military (with uniforms), they could muster at the border? In view of the hero status that Hamas and the PA slather on civilians who die while in the service of attacking Jews, one would think that there must be a willingness on the part of the Hamas and PA leadership to lead a military charge at the israeli border.
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> Isn't it strange that your islamic terrorist heroes somehow find uniforms for fashion show parades but they dont wear those uniforms at the border gee-had war they are fighting.


No uniforms, no flags, no guns.

Strange jihad, what?


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, we've all heard this whining before.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians make decisions and then when the outcome and consequences are not to their liking, the make a complaint saying that they were (somehow) at a disadvantage.
> 
> In over a 100 years, the Arab Palestinians have not been able to take responsibility for their future and destiny in any fashion.  They always need a responsible adult to look after their interests.  They are not capable of making a decision on their own behalf.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Between April 1950 "elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine.  (*SOURCE LINK*)  The decisions made in April 1950 by the Arab Palestinians, became known as the "Unification of the Two Banks."  In the 38 years that followed the Arab Palestinians did not fight the annexation.  On the contrary, the Arab Palestinians attempted to expand their control and forcibly bring down the Hashemite Kingdom.  In the Seven decades since the establishment of the State of Israel, the Arab Palestinians had always claimed they were unable to establish their own self-governing institution.
> 
> There is a great difference between the reality of an actual establishment of control and the theoretical establishment of a self-governing institution.
> 
> Even the Gaza and Ramallah Governments _(such as they are)_ which have been unable, totally incapable of bringing any kind of semblance of a honest government forward, has spent much of their time end fighting among themselves and being a disintegrated state where basic conditions and responsibilities of a sovereign government never had the necessary leadership to function properly.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians make decisions and then when the outcome and consequences are not to their liking, the make a complaint saying that they were (somehow) at a disadvantage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> What decisions can they make while under military occupation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only military occupation the Palestinians are under are their own military.
> 
> What?  You are still not aware that Hamas and and other factions in Gaza have militaries, with weapons, uniforms and the whole thing which other militaries have?
> 
> But of course neither Israel nor Egypt (remember Egypt? ) will allow them to have planes and other nasty things to hit both countries with.
> 
> Remember the Muslim Brotherhood?  Hamas is an offshoot of it.
> And "normal" Muslims do not like the aggression and need to take over other Muslims territories, which Hamas is also into.
> 
> Hamas can make the decision to do away with the Charter for the destruction of Israel and CHOOSE   PEACE.
> 
> Two very simple words, any government like Hamas .....and PLO....should eventually come to....
> 
> That is if only Qatar, the UN, EU and others stop drowning Gaza with money to build weapons and fire them at Israel.
> 
> 
> Decision 1 :  Good for all in Gaza....and areas A and B as well.
> 
> 
> CHOOSE    PEACE !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More of the expected sidestepping and denial.
> 
> Why not offer a YouTube video showing Hamas and their silly fashion show parades with the islamic terrorist army (_men in ski masks_), dressed in military style uniforms? Isn't it strange that your islamic terrorist heroes somehow find uniforms for fashion show parades but they dont wear those uniforms at the border gee-had war they are fighting.
> 
> Why don't we see the armed soldiers of your invented "country of Pal'istan" wearing their fasion show uniforms when attacking the israeli border?
> 
> Why is the "country of Pal'istan" sending (and paying) civilians to riot at the border gee-had when Hamas has a military (with uniforms), they could muster at the border? In view of the hero status that Hamas and the PA slather on civilians who die while in the service of attacking Jews, one would think that there must be a willingness on the part of the Hamas and PA leadership to lead a military charge at the israeli border.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't it strange that your islamic terrorist heroes somehow find uniforms for fashion show parades but they dont wear those uniforms at the border gee-had war they are fighting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No uniforms, no flags, no guns.
> 
> Strange jihad, what?
Click to expand...

Here is their flag:



From 2014, look at all of those guns, uniforms.
Kids parading with guns.
What a great world they live in


----------



## Mindful

Concerning the Border. A clear and present danger.


Iran Inches Closer to its Goal: "Wipe Israel off the Map"
by *Majid Rafizadeh*  • 



As Iran's theocratic establishment believes that the Supreme Leader is Allah's representative on earth, whatever words or desires the Supreme Leader utters are considered Allah's wishes, which must be brought to life by Allah's true believers.


Iran has built, or is in the process of building, more than 10 military bases in Syria, some of which are near the Israeli border.


When will the international community begin to take the Iranian's government clear verbal threats and physical aggression seriously? Or would the international community secretly like to see Israel destroyed, under Europe's Orwellian inversion of words: "the peace process"?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, we've all heard this whining before.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians make decisions and then when the outcome and consequences are not to their liking, the make a complaint saying that they were (somehow) at a disadvantage.
> 
> In over a 100 years, the Arab Palestinians have not been able to take responsibility for their future and destiny in any fashion.  They always need a responsible adult to look after their interests.  They are not capable of making a decision on their own behalf.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Between April 1950 "elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine.  (*SOURCE LINK*)  The decisions made in April 1950 by the Arab Palestinians, became known as the "Unification of the Two Banks."  In the 38 years that followed the Arab Palestinians did not fight the annexation.  On the contrary, the Arab Palestinians attempted to expand their control and forcibly bring down the Hashemite Kingdom.  In the Seven decades since the establishment of the State of Israel, the Arab Palestinians had always claimed they were unable to establish their own self-governing institution.
> 
> There is a great difference between the reality of an actual establishment of control and the theoretical establishment of a self-governing institution.
> 
> Even the Gaza and Ramallah Governments _(such as they are)_ which have been unable, totally incapable of bringing any kind of semblance of a honest government forward, has spent much of their time end fighting among themselves and being a disintegrated state where basic conditions and responsibilities of a sovereign government never had the necessary leadership to function properly.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians make decisions and then when the outcome and consequences are not to their liking, the make a complaint saying that they were (somehow) at a disadvantage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> What decisions can they make while under military occupation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only military occupation the Palestinians are under are their own military.
> 
> What?  You are still not aware that Hamas and and other factions in Gaza have militaries, with weapons, uniforms and the whole thing which other militaries have?
> 
> But of course neither Israel nor Egypt (remember Egypt? ) will allow them to have planes and other nasty things to hit both countries with.
> 
> Remember the Muslim Brotherhood?  Hamas is an offshoot of it.
> And "normal" Muslims do not like the aggression and need to take over other Muslims territories, which Hamas is also into.
> 
> Hamas can make the decision to do away with the Charter for the destruction of Israel and CHOOSE   PEACE.
> 
> Two very simple words, any government like Hamas .....and PLO....should eventually come to....
> 
> That is if only Qatar, the UN, EU and others stop drowning Gaza with money to build weapons and fire them at Israel.
> 
> 
> Decision 1 :  Good for all in Gaza....and areas A and B as well.
> 
> 
> CHOOSE    PEACE !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More of the expected sidestepping and denial.
> 
> Why not offer a YouTube video showing Hamas and their silly fashion show parades with the islamic terrorist army (_men in ski masks_), dressed in military style uniforms? Isn't it strange that your islamic terrorist heroes somehow find uniforms for fashion show parades but they dont wear those uniforms at the border gee-had war they are fighting.
> 
> Why don't we see the armed soldiers of your invented "country of Pal'istan" wearing their fasion show uniforms when attacking the israeli border?
> 
> Why is the "country of Pal'istan" sending (and paying) civilians to riot at the border gee-had when Hamas has a military (with uniforms), they could muster at the border? In view of the hero status that Hamas and the PA slather on civilians who die while in the service of attacking Jews, one would think that there must be a willingness on the part of the Hamas and PA leadership to lead a military charge at the israeli border.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't it strange that your islamic terrorist heroes somehow find uniforms for fashion show parades but they dont wear those uniforms at the border gee-had war they are fighting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No uniforms, no flags, no guns.
> 
> Strange jihad, what?
Click to expand...


Indeed, dead Hamas gee-had wannabes followed by Hamas fashion shows in uniforms,  Arabs-Moslems waving flags with Nazi swastika’s and gunfire from the mini-caliphate of Yahys’istan.

Indeed, strange gee-had. You were in the depths of a coma not to notice?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  Mindful, et al,

I think that there is a basket full of "food for political-military" thought here.  And it is a dilemma in the making.



Mindful said:


> Concerning the Border. A clear and present danger.
> Iran Inches Closer to its Goal: "Wipe Israel off the Map"
> by *Majid Rafizadeh*  •
> 
> As Iran's theocratic establishment believes that the Supreme Leader is Allah's representative on earth, whatever words or desires the Supreme Leader utters are considered Allah's wishes, which must be brought to life by Allah's true believers.
> 
> 
> Iran has built, or is in the process of building, more than 10 military bases in Syria, some of which are near the Israeli border.
> 
> 
> When will the international community begin to take the Iranian's government clear verbal threats and physical aggression seriously? Or would the international community secretly like to see Israel destroyed, under Europe's Orwellian inversion of words: "the peace process"?




*(COMMENT)*

◈  Political Fear is political perception induced by perceived danger used in a coercive fashion.

◈  A threat _(from a state or non-state actor)_ is a political anxiety induced by the actual presentation of the ware with all _(the proven ability)_ → that a reasonable government or organization would conclude is a source of imminent harm or injury.​
*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*​It is not what Iran does that is the problem; but rather, what others perceive the outcome of what they do will be.   In 1967, when Egypt displaced the Peacekeeper and rushed 100,000 troops and 1000 tanks to the border, the Israelis determined that the "risk" of war was too great.  This trigger the Six-Day War. 

When the Tzar sent the Russian Army to the Border, that was a strong contributing factor to war.

If you tower over me, and I fear for my life, you might scare me into preemptively shooting you to keep from happening what I think will be a beating.

*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*​What Egypt did, what the Tzar did and what you did may have merely been an attempt at political-military coercion _(entirely legal from one viewpoint)_.  But what was perceived as the face of "fear' and the "credible threat" → that trigger which caused the unintended consequence _(war or conflict)_.

Just like in the case of a deadly assault, it is justifiable if you are in fear of your life.  The International Political equivalency of this is preemptive military action.  And while the world understands "justifiable homicide," it demonizes preemptive military action.

At the international level, a peacekeeper is a form of war/conflict preemption.  Rules #96-#97 pertaining to hostages and human shields is a near-term diversion from an imminent engagement or battle.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Mindful, et al,
> 
> I think that there is a basket full of "food for political-military" thought here.  And it is a dilemma in the making.
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Concerning the Border. A clear and present danger.
> Iran Inches Closer to its Goal: "Wipe Israel off the Map"
> by *Majid Rafizadeh*  •
> 
> As Iran's theocratic establishment believes that the Supreme Leader is Allah's representative on earth, whatever words or desires the Supreme Leader utters are considered Allah's wishes, which must be brought to life by Allah's true believers.
> 
> 
> Iran has built, or is in the process of building, more than 10 military bases in Syria, some of which are near the Israeli border.
> 
> 
> When will the international community begin to take the Iranian's government clear verbal threats and physical aggression seriously? Or would the international community secretly like to see Israel destroyed, under Europe's Orwellian inversion of words: "the peace process"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  Political Fear is political perception induced by perceived danger used in a coercive fashion.
> 
> ◈  A threat _(from a state or non-state actor)_ is a political anxiety induced by the actual presentation of the ware with all _(the proven ability)_ → that a reasonable government or organization would conclude is a source of imminent harm or injury.​
> *----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*​It is not what Iran does that is the problem; but rather, what others perceive the outcome of what they do will be.   In 1967, when Egypt displaced the Peacekeeper and rushed 100,000 troops and 1000 tanks to the border, the Israelis determined that the "risk" of war was too great.  This trigger the Six-Day War.
> 
> When the Tzar sent the Russian Army to the Border, that was a strong contributing factor to war.
> 
> If you tower over me, and I fear for my life, you might scare me into preemptively shooting you to keep from happening what I think will be a beating.
> 
> *----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*​What Egypt did, what the Tzar did and what you did may have merely been an attempt at political-military coercion _(entirely legal from one viewpoint)_.  But what was perceived as the face of "fear' and the "credible threat" → that trigger which caused the unintended consequence _(war or conflict)_.
> 
> Just like in the case of a deadly assault, it is justifiable if you are in fear of your life.  The International Political equivalency of this is preemptive military action.  And while the world understands "justifiable homicide," it demonizes preemptive military action.
> 
> At the international level, a peacekeeper is a form of war/conflict preemption.  Rules #96-#97 pertaining to hostages and human shields is a near-term diversion from an imminent engagement or battle.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Rocco, my impression is that Iran has every intention of fomenting a conflict with Israel that will quickly escalate. Their history since 1979 has been one defined by antagonism to Israel (and the Great Satan), and the Mullahs clearly state their intentions toward Israel. A conflict that Iran starts in Syria presents an Iranian opportunity as the nation of Iran has a small measure of safety from retaliatory attacks from Israel by sheer distance from the conflict. Although, Iranian attacks from Syria would, I suspect, cause Israel to employ its F-35’s to strike Iran directly. 

As we saw with the absolutely brutal 8 year long slugfest that Iran fought with Iraq, the mullahs have no hesitation about making sacrificial lambs of their military or their civilian population. An Iranian initiated war would likely involve Hezbollah and as they did in 2006, would wage war from Lebanese cities and attempt to draw Israel into attacking civilian areas. 

The Lebanese government seems to have little control over Hezbollah so they would be a second arm of the Iranian military. 

I don’t see any of the Arab nations in the region stepping in to fight alongside the Iranians so the war may be just another drubbing of Lebanon and targets in Iran being flattened.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  Time to end this terrorism ]

Hand grenade attached to model plane found along highway near Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

The supposedly civilian and spontaneous border ‘protests’ are a charade, a propaganda event, turned on and off by Hamas like a spigot. It’s deadly Pallywood.

(full article online)

Nothing happened at Gaza border today, proving Hamas completely controls the 'Great March of Return'


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gaza terrorists adding polystyrene planes to their methods of delivering explosives to Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  Look !!!   Palestinians feeling at "home" again....]

Images posted on social media show demonstrators setting off small explosions, lighting tires on fire and pointing lasers at Israeli security forces









(full article online)

Palestinians in Gaza resume night time border protests
https://twitter.com/PalinfoAr


----------



## Hollie

It looks like Hamas wants to increase its presence at the border 
gee-had. 
*
Hamas to Escalate Nighttime Riots and Weekend Protests Along Gaza Border
*
Hamas to escalate nighttime riots and weekend protests along Gaza border

Officials announce move after Egyptian security delegation says Israel unable to meet the organizations' demands ■ Organizers of weekly border demonstrations urge more Gazans to participate

Jack Khoury
18.03.2019 | 22:14
Hamas officials announced Monday that the organization is planning on increasing nighttime activities on the border, in addition to ramping up the tension in the weekly "Great March of Return" protests.

This comes after Egyptian security officials who visited the Gaza Strip told Hamas that Israel is unable to meet Hamas' demands for calm.

Hamas' main goal is a significant easing of Israel's blockade on Gaza. Last week, a Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine official in Gaza told Haaretz that Israel is willing to make certain concessions, but Hamas' activity on the border will not stop until an agreement has been reached.


----------



## Sixties Fan

· Mar 16, 2019

Replying to @rafsanchez
Hamas is reportedly staging its own demonstration against Abbas now, in an apparent effort to divert public anger in Gaza.

In a widely-shared video from Gaza, a mother rails against Hamas. 

“Our sons and daughters have lost 12 years of their lives. For what? Each son of a Hamas official owns an apartment, a car, a jeep, a building...While our sons have nothing at all."

7:14 AM - Mar 18, 2019




(vide video online - scroll down)

03/19 Links Pt1: Cruz, Military Experts Slam U.N. Report Suggesting Israel Committed War Crimes Responding to Gaza Border Riots; The Perpetrator of Sunday’s Terror Attack Was No Lone Wolf ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Billo_Really

Mindful said:


> Who has, then?


Doesn't matter.  All that matters is, it isn't Israel's.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Are you saying that Israel SHOULD be going into Gaza to arrest people?  What happened to your frequent comment that Israel has no right to step intoned gaza territory?
> 
> And rules justified by whom?  What criteria do they use for "justified"?


I'm saying Israel shouldn't be shooting innocent, unarmed civilians.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Why do you deny the intent of the Islamic border riots (to “rip the hearts out of the Jews”), and the right of the Israelis to protect themselves?
> 
> Hamas has a graduated pay scale for the vacant-minded wannabe border crashes who took one for the cause. Who are you to define how the wannabes make a few bucks?


You're lying again.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> I guess the Israeli police can rely on you to direct traffic when they enter the Islamic terrorist enclave to arrest islsmic terrorists.


You just keep shoveling bullshit.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you deny the intent of the Islamic border riots (to “rip the hearts out of the Jews”), and the right of the Israelis to protect themselves?
> 
> Hamas has a graduated pay scale for the vacant-minded wannabe border crashes who took one for the cause. Who are you to define how the wannabes make a few bucks?
> 
> 
> 
> You're lying again.
Click to expand...


Not at all. You can do a quick search and find the fact for yourself.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess the Israeli police can rely on you to direct traffic when they enter the Islamic terrorist enclave to arrest islsmic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> You just keep shoveling bullshit.
Click to expand...


Don’t let your hurt feelings get in the way.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that Israel SHOULD be going into Gaza to arrest people?  What happened to your frequent comment that Israel has no right to step intoned gaza territory?
> 
> And rules justified by whom?  What criteria do they use for "justified"?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm saying Israel shouldn't be shooting innocent, unarmed civilians.
Click to expand...


You made no case to support your claim that Israel is shooting innocent, unarmed civilians.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that Israel SHOULD be going into Gaza to arrest people?  What happened to your frequent comment that Israel has no right to step intoned gaza territory?
> 
> And rules justified by whom?  What criteria do they use for "justified"?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm saying Israel shouldn't be shooting innocent, unarmed civilians.
Click to expand...


Presumably it's okay for Israel to continue to shoot the armed, violent ones.


----------



## Hollie

I was surprised what follows came out of the New York Times. 

The article nicely encapsulates the absurdity of making excuses for Islamic terrorist franchises as Hamas, as one example, is just another totalitarian Islamic terrorist enterprise.

*Palestinian Lives Don’t Matter**
*Unless Israel is to blame.

Opinion | Palestinian Lives Don’t Matter*

The current round of demonstrations, which began last week, comes in reaction to years of Hamas’s economic mismanagement, price hikes and recent tax increases. This is not for lack of funds on Hamas’s part: Since 2012, the group has taken in over a billion dollars from Qatar alone to pay the costs of fuel, humanitarian aid and civil-servant salaries.

Where that money goes is another question. In 2014, The Wall Street Journal reported that Hamas had spent some $90 million building attack tunnels into Israel, at an average cost of nearly $3 million a tunnel. The material devoted to each tunnel, the Journal reported, was “enough to build 86 homes, seven mosques, six schools or 19 medical clinics.” Three wars against Israel, each started by Hamas, have also taken their toll in lives, injuries, infrastructure and isolation.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Joe Truzman presented his findings, which are at odds with a UN Report, on the identity of many of those killed — they were military members of terrorist groups including Hamas and Islamic Jihad.








We have extensively documented how the supposedly “peaceful protests” at the Gaza-Israel border fence are, in reality, Hamas and Islamic Jihad military terror operations using some civilians as cover, including women and children.

Over 80% of the Gazans killed at the border have been military members of terrorist groups, the best evidence that these are not really civilian protests. Even some of the “children” involved, and who have been killed or injured, were teenage military members of terrorist groups.

(full article online)

Meet some of the people the UN calls "civilians" killed in Gaza border clashes


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel shells Hamas post after explosion of balloon-borne bomb from Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Joe Truzman presented his findings, which are at odds with a UN Report, on the identity of many of those killed — they were military members of terrorist groups including Hamas and Islamic Jihad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have extensively documented how the supposedly “peaceful protests” at the Gaza-Israel border fence are, in reality, Hamas and Islamic Jihad military terror operations using some civilians as cover, including women and children.
> 
> Over 80% of the Gazans killed at the border have been military members of terrorist groups, the best evidence that these are not really civilian protests. Even some of the “children” involved, and who have been killed or injured, were teenage military members of terrorist groups.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Meet some of the people the UN calls "civilians" killed in Gaza border clashes


If they are unarmed and off duty, they are civilians.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Joe Truzman presented his findings, which are at odds with a UN Report, on the identity of many of those killed — they were military members of terrorist groups including Hamas and Islamic Jihad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have extensively documented how the supposedly “peaceful protests” at the Gaza-Israel border fence are, in reality, Hamas and Islamic Jihad military terror operations using some civilians as cover, including women and children.
> 
> Over 80% of the Gazans killed at the border have been military members of terrorist groups, the best evidence that these are not really civilian protests. Even some of the “children” involved, and who have been killed or injured, were teenage military members of terrorist groups.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Meet some of the people the UN calls "civilians" killed in Gaza border clashes
> 
> 
> 
> If they are unarmed and off duty, they are civilians.
Click to expand...


If they are present at an armed and violent conflict and actively participating, they are "on-duty".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Joe Truzman presented his findings, which are at odds with a UN Report, on the identity of many of those killed — they were military members of terrorist groups including Hamas and Islamic Jihad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have extensively documented how the supposedly “peaceful protests” at the Gaza-Israel border fence are, in reality, Hamas and Islamic Jihad military terror operations using some civilians as cover, including women and children.
> 
> Over 80% of the Gazans killed at the border have been military members of terrorist groups, the best evidence that these are not really civilian protests. Even some of the “children” involved, and who have been killed or injured, were teenage military members of terrorist groups.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Meet some of the people the UN calls "civilians" killed in Gaza border clashes
> 
> 
> 
> If they are unarmed and off duty, they are civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If they are present at an armed and violent conflict and actively participating, they are "on-duty".
Click to expand...

Armed, really?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Joe Truzman presented his findings, which are at odds with a UN Report, on the identity of many of those killed — they were military members of terrorist groups including Hamas and Islamic Jihad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have extensively documented how the supposedly “peaceful protests” at the Gaza-Israel border fence are, in reality, Hamas and Islamic Jihad military terror operations using some civilians as cover, including women and children.
> 
> Over 80% of the Gazans killed at the border have been military members of terrorist groups, the best evidence that these are not really civilian protests. Even some of the “children” involved, and who have been killed or injured, were teenage military members of terrorist groups.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Meet some of the people the UN calls "civilians" killed in Gaza border clashes
> 
> 
> 
> If they are unarmed and off duty, they are civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If they are present at an armed and violent conflict and actively participating, they are "on-duty".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Armed, really?
Click to expand...



Seriously?!  You are going to try to argue that there are no weapons present in the conflict zone?  Don't be willfully stupid.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Joe Truzman presented his findings, which are at odds with a UN Report, on the identity of many of those killed — they were military members of terrorist groups including Hamas and Islamic Jihad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have extensively documented how the supposedly “peaceful protests” at the Gaza-Israel border fence are, in reality, Hamas and Islamic Jihad military terror operations using some civilians as cover, including women and children.
> 
> Over 80% of the Gazans killed at the border have been military members of terrorist groups, the best evidence that these are not really civilian protests. Even some of the “children” involved, and who have been killed or injured, were teenage military members of terrorist groups.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Meet some of the people the UN calls "civilians" killed in Gaza border clashes
> 
> 
> 
> If they are unarmed and off duty, they are civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If they are present at an armed and violent conflict and actively participating, they are "on-duty".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Armed, really?
Click to expand...


When you start the gee-had, the war is on. 

Thanks. Now go whine about how unfair it is that you and yours are the forever losers.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Oh, look.....no war crimes being committed by the Arabs in Gaza, well.....according to the UN ]

Several thousand Palestinians were protesting along the Gaza Strip border on Friday, throwing explosive devices and rocks at soldiers who were responding with tear gas and occasional live fire. Palestinians said two people were killed.

Also Friday, a balloon carrying an incendiary device launched from Gaza set a blaze between homes in the nearby Israeli kibbutz of Nir Am. The fire was extinguished and there were no reports of injuries. Another blaze was started near Kibbutz Be’eri.

In riots along the barrier, Palestinians tried to destroy the border fence in several places, but were pushed back by the IDF. The Hamas-run Gaza health ministry said two Palestinians, an 18-year-old and a 29-year-old, were killed by live fire and 30 wounded.

(full article online)

2 said in killed riots on Gaza border, fire balloons cause blazes in Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas said it will increase its launching of incendiary balloons during the day this week.

(full article online)

Hamas 'night unit' threatens escalation on Gaza border


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Israeli military said Saturday it launched airstrikes against two terror cells in Gaza, after they flew balloons rigged with explosives into Israel.

"Troops identified a terrorist squad which launched explosive balloons into Israeli territory from the southern Gaza Strip," the IDF said in a statement.


"In response, an Israel Defense Forces aircraft fired towards the terrorists."

A subsequent statement said that an aircraft fired at "an additional terrorist squad" which also launched explosive balloons from southern Gaza.

(full article online)

Israel strikes Gaza terror cells


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Not at all. You can do a quick search and find the fact for yourself.


They are not Islamic border riots.  They are peaceful protests showing their opposition to the existing occupation they've been forced to live under against all international laws.

You think people are stupid enough to buy into your bullshit labels?


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Don’t let your hurt feelings get in the way.


Why would my feelings get hurt?  This conflict doesn't affect my daily life in any way.  You have to care in order to be hurt and I could care less.  I just don't like pricks like you trying to tell me the emperor has new clothes.


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all. You can do a quick search and find the fact for yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> They are not Islamic border riots.  They are peaceful protests showing their opposition to the existing occupation they've been forced to live under against all international laws.
> 
> You think people are stupid enough to buy into your bullshit labels?
Click to expand...

Peaceful protest don't fly flame balloons.
Peaceful protests don't try to tear down the border fence.
Peaceful protests don't throw bombs and rocks at the border guards.
Peaceful my ass.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Presumably it's okay for Israel to continue to shoot the armed, violent ones.


Wrong.  You can only use deadly force when your life is threatened.  Someone out duck hunting, is not threatening your life.  Someone fishing, is not threatening your life.  Someone standing there smoking a cigarette, is not threatening your life.  First responders giving care to the wounded, is not threatening your life.

Are you that big of a pussy that you refuse to deal with what Israel does wrong?


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Presumably it's okay for Israel to continue to shoot the armed, violent ones.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  You can only use deadly force when your life is threatened.  Someone out duck hunting, is not threatening your life.  Someone fishing, is not threatening your life.  Someone standing there smoking a cigarette, is not threatening your life.  First responders giving care to the wounded, is not threatening your life.
> 
> Are you that big of a pussy that you refuse to deal with what Israel does wrong?
Click to expand...

It's war, people die, until the war is over. It isn't over until someone capitulates. Israel should drop Napalm on the crowds.


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> Peaceful protest don't fly flame balloons.
> Peaceful protests don't try to tear down the border fence.
> Peaceful protests don't throw bombs and rocks at the border guards.
> Peaceful my ass.


Peaceful countries don't imprison 1.5 million people, who have committed no crime, against their will.


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Peaceful protest don't fly flame balloons.
> Peaceful protests don't try to tear down the border fence.
> Peaceful protests don't throw bombs and rocks at the border guards.
> Peaceful my ass.
> 
> 
> 
> Peaceful countries don't imprison 1.5 million people, who have committed no crime, against their will.
Click to expand...

How are they imprisoning them? By not allowing them to cross the border into Israel. Israel is allowed to decide who can enter their country. israel is allowed to seal up enemy territory until they surrender.


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> It's war, people die, until the war is over. It isn't over until someone capitulates. Israel should drop Napalm on the crowds.


It's not a war.  It's a belligerant occupation.  Wars are fought between competing army's.  Not between one of the most militarized country on the planet versus a population under occupation that is not even allowed to have weapons to defend themselves.


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's war, people die, until the war is over. It isn't over until someone capitulates. Israel should drop Napalm on the crowds.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a war.  It's a belligerant occupation.  Wars are fought between competing army's.  Not between one of the most militarized country on the planet versus a population under occupation that is not even allowed to have weapons to defend themselves.
Click to expand...

Tell that to the Arabs who keep attacking the israelites.


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> How are they imprisoning them? By not allowing them to cross the border into Israel. Israel is allowed to decide who can enter their country. israel is allowed to seal up enemy territory until they surrender.


They are not allowed to leave the area without Israeli permission.  Shit, they can't even fish or farm without getting shot at.


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> Tell that to the Arabs who keep attacking the israelites.


It's not an attack; it is a response to Israeli aggression.


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> How are they imprisoning them? By not allowing them to cross the border into Israel. Israel is allowed to decide who can enter their country. israel is allowed to seal up enemy territory until they surrender.
> 
> 
> 
> They are not allowed to leave the area without Israeli permission.  Shit, they can't even fish or farm without getting shot at.
Click to expand...

Why aren't you blaming Egypt for this? They have other borders that don't connect to Israel.


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to the Arabs who keep attacking the israelites.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not an attack; it is a response to Israeli aggression.
Click to expand...

Lighting baloons on fire is an attack not a response.
Throwing rocks and bombs at border guards is an attack not a response.
Trying to tear down border fences is an attack not a response.


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> Why aren't you blaming Egypt for this? They have other borders that don't connect to Israel.


They have one border and run it at Israel's direction.  And they don't shoot Palestinians trying to fish.


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why aren't you blaming Egypt for this? They have other borders that don't connect to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> They have one border and run it at Israel's direction.  And they don't shoot Palestinians trying to fish.
Click to expand...

One of those Palestinians trying to fish had wire cutters. Stop with the bullshit.


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> Lighting baloons on fire is an attack not a response.
> Throwing rocks and bombs at border guards is an attack not a response.
> Trying to tear down border fences is an attack not a response.


An illegal occupation that has lasted 70 years against all international laws, is foreign aggression and Palestinians have every legal right in the world to resist.


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lighting baloons on fire is an attack not a response.
> Throwing rocks and bombs at border guards is an attack not a response.
> Trying to tear down border fences is an attack not a response.
> 
> 
> 
> An illegal occupation that has lasted 70 years against all international laws, is foreign aggression and Palestinians have every legal right in the world to resist.
Click to expand...

Ie they are at war.
Israel was attacked.
Israel does what she does to defend themselves.
Want Israel to stop then stop attacking Israel.


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> One of those Palestinians trying to fish had wire cutters. Stop with the bullshit.


Wire cutters!  Oh, that's heavy.  Maybe he's an electrician?  Call me when they have drones and Cobra gunships.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lighting baloons on fire is an attack not a response.
> Throwing rocks and bombs at border guards is an attack not a response.
> Trying to tear down border fences is an attack not a response.
> 
> 
> 
> An illegal occupation that has lasted 70 years against all international laws, is foreign aggression and Palestinians have every legal right in the world to resist.
Click to expand...

There hasn't been any Israeli in Gaza since 2005.  Go cry crocodile tears by the Gaza shore.

Egypt is flooding Palestinian tunnels into Egypt and killing Palestinians.
But it is the Israelis who are the problem and are "occupying" Gaza.

Egypt is doing the same thing as the Israelis are.

Defending their borders and their populations from Islamic murderers and thieves.

Deal with it !!


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of those Palestinians trying to fish had wire cutters. Stop with the bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> Wire cutters!  Oh, that's heavy.  Maybe he's an electrician?  Call me when they have drones and Cobra gunships.
Click to expand...

An electrician doesn't bring his tools with him when he's fishing.
They were to cut the fence.
That's why he was shot.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of those Palestinians trying to fish had wire cutters. Stop with the bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> Wire cutters!  Oh, that's heavy.  Maybe he's an electrician?  Call me when they have drones and Cobra gunships.
Click to expand...

Call us when you stop lying about what is going on in Gaza which even the UN is getting fed up with.

Go discuss this topic on the correct thread, which you apparently have too much difficulty in finding:

Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> Ie they are at war.
> Israel was attacked.
> Israel does what she does to defend themselves.
> Want Israel to stop then stop attacking Israel.


They were at war in 1967.  A war Israel started.  But its been an occupation ever since, because Israel thinks it can hold onto land seized in that war.  Well, we wouldn't let Germany annex Poland and we're not going to let Israel annex the West Bank, Golan Heights, Gaza and East Jerusalem.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ie they are at war.
> Israel was attacked.
> Israel does what she does to defend themselves.
> Want Israel to stop then stop attacking Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> They were at war in 1967.  A war Israel started.  But its been an occupation ever since, because Israel thinks it can hold onto land seized in that war.  Well, we wouldn't let Germany annex Poland and we're not going to let Israel annex the West Bank, Golan Heights, Gaza and East Jerusalem.
Click to expand...

Stop lying and get yourself some help.


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ie they are at war.
> Israel was attacked.
> Israel does what she does to defend themselves.
> Want Israel to stop then stop attacking Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> They were at war in 1967.  A war Israel started.  But its been an occupation ever since, because Israel thinks it can hold onto land seized in that war.  Well, we wouldn't let Germany annex Poland and we're not going to let Israel annex the West Bank, Golan Heights, Gaza and East Jerusalem.
Click to expand...

Israel didn't seize land through aggressive conquest but as a defensive necessity. If you didn't want to lose land you shouldn't of started what you couldn't finish.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> There hasn't been any Israeli in Gaza since 2005.  Go cry crocodile tears by the Gaza shore.
> 
> Egypt is flooding Palestinian tunnels into Egypt and killing Palestinians.
> But it is the Israelis who are the problem and are "occupying" Gaza.
> 
> Egypt is doing the same thing as the Israelis are.
> 
> Defending their borders and their populations from Islamic murderers and thieves.
> 
> Deal with it !!


According to a UN report...

_Around 250 Gazans were killed, over 25,000 others injured, many seriously, including women, children, and clearly identified paramedics and journalists._

_“(m)ore than 6,000 unarmed demonstrators were shot by (unthreatened IDF) snipers, another 3,098 injured by “bullet fragmentation, rubber-coated metal bullets or by hits from tear gas canisters.”_

_No Israeli soldiers were killed or injured by Palestinians during demonstrations. The COI cited four IDF soldiers wounded (perhaps by friendly fire), another killed “outside the protest sites.”_

_Palestinian protests were peaceful, ineffective stone-throwing and incendiary balloons alone used, harming no one.
_​Is this what Israel is defending itself from?

_*The murder of Abdel Fatah Nabi (18 years old)*
“Israeli forces killed Abed, from Beit Lahia, when they shot him in the back of the head as he ran, carrying a tyre, away from and about 400 m from the separation fence.”_​Running "away" from the fence!  How do you attack a country running away from it?

*The murder of Bader Sabagh (19 years old)*
_“Bader, from Jabaliya, was killed by Israeli forces when they shot him in the head as he stood smoking a cigarette 300 m from the separation fence.”_​
So someone standing around smoking a cigarette, is a threat to Israeli national security?

*Injury and murder of schoolgirl (13 years old) and Marwan Qudieh (45 years old)*
_“Israeli forces injured a schoolgirl with bullet fragmentation. As she lay on the ground, four men attempted to evacuate her. The forces shot three of them, killing Marwan Qudieh (45) from Khuzaa village and injuring a potato seller and another man in the legs. One of the rescuers had to have a leg amputated.”_​Yeah, people caring for the wounded, is a grave threat to Israel's existence?

You are really sick in the head trying to defend this shit!


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> Israel didn't seize land through aggressive conquest but as a defensive necessity. If you didn't want to lose land you shouldn't of started what you couldn't finish.


The war started when Israeli tanks rolled into Egypt.  All those areas were seized after that.  You can't hold onto land seized in a war.  Period.


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> There hasn't been any Israeli in Gaza since 2005.  Go cry crocodile tears by the Gaza shore.
> 
> Egypt is flooding Palestinian tunnels into Egypt and killing Palestinians.
> But it is the Israelis who are the problem and are "occupying" Gaza.
> 
> Egypt is doing the same thing as the Israelis are.
> 
> Defending their borders and their populations from Islamic murderers and thieves.
> 
> Deal with it !!
> 
> 
> 
> According to a UN report...
> 
> _Around 250 Gazans were killed, over 25,000 others injured, many seriously, including women, children, and clearly identified paramedics and journalists._
> 
> _“(m)ore than 6,000 unarmed demonstrators were shot by (unthreatened IDF) snipers, another 3,098 injured by “bullet fragmentation, rubber-coated metal bullets or by hits from tear gas canisters.”_
> 
> _No Israeli soldiers were killed or injured by Palestinians during demonstrations. The COI cited four IDF soldiers wounded (perhaps by friendly fire), another killed “outside the protest sites.”_
> 
> _Palestinian protests were peaceful, ineffective stone-throwing and incendiary balloons alone used, harming no one.
> _​Is this what Israel is defending itself from?
> 
> _*The murder of Abdel Fatah Nabi (18 years old)*
> “Israeli forces killed Abed, from Beit Lahia, when they shot him in the back of the head as he ran, carrying a tyre, away from and about 400 m from the separation fence.”_​Running "away" from the fence!  How do you attack a country running away from it?
> 
> *The murder of Bader Sabagh (19 years old)*
> _“Bader, from Jabaliya, was killed by Israeli forces when they shot him in the head as he stood smoking a cigarette 300 m from the separation fence.”_​
> So someone standing around smoking a cigarette, is a threat to Israeli national security?
> 
> *Injury and murder of schoolgirl (13 years old) and Marwan Qudieh (45 years old)*
> _“Israeli forces injured a schoolgirl with bullet fragmentation. As she lay on the ground, four men attempted to evacuate her. The forces shot three of them, killing Marwan Qudieh (45) from Khuzaa village and injuring a potato seller and another man in the legs. One of the rescuers had to have a leg amputated.”_​Yeah, people caring for the wounded, is a grave threat to Israel's existence?
> 
> You are really sick in the head trying to defend this shit!
Click to expand...

Nah you have to be sick to believe this shit.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Call us when you stop lying about what is going on in Gaza which even the UN is getting fed up with.
> 
> Go discuss this topic on the correct thread, which you apparently have too much difficulty in finding:
> 
> Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border


Technically, what you think is going on in Gaza and whatever the UN is fed up about, is off topic for this thread.  But debating whether someone carrying wire cutters during the right of return protests, is on topic.  So fuck off, bitch!


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel didn't seize land through aggressive conquest but as a defensive necessity. If you didn't want to lose land you shouldn't of started what you couldn't finish.
> 
> 
> 
> The war started when Israeli tanks rolled into Egypt.  All those areas were seized after that.  You can't hold onto land seized in a war.  Period.
Click to expand...

Egypt lined their tanks first. If Israel had waited for Egypt to attack before defending herself there would be no Israel.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Stop lying and get yourself some help.


What did I lie about?


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> Israel didn't seize land through aggressive conquest but as a defensive necessity. If you didn't want to lose land you shouldn't of started what you couldn't finish.


Again, the war started when Israeli tanks rolled into Egypt. You have to be a fucking mental patient to think that is not an invasion.  The Bush Doctrine is illegal.


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> Nah you have to be sick to believe this shit.


Normal people usually have evidence to the contrary in order to believe this is bullshit.  Nutjobs believe its bullshit for no reason at all.


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> Egypt lined their tanks first. If Israel had waited for Egypt to attack before defending herself there would be no Israel.


The fact remains, Israel attacked Egypt, not the other way around.


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nah you have to be sick to believe this shit.
> 
> 
> 
> Normal people usually have evidence to the contrary in order to believe this is bullshit.  Nutjobs believe its bullshit for no reason at all.
Click to expand...

Manufactured bullshit.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> There hasn't been any Israeli in Gaza since 2005.  Go cry crocodile tears by the Gaza shore.
> 
> Egypt is flooding Palestinian tunnels into Egypt and killing Palestinians.
> But it is the Israelis who are the problem and are "occupying" Gaza.
> 
> Egypt is doing the same thing as the Israelis are.
> 
> Defending their borders and their populations from Islamic murderers and thieves.
> 
> Deal with it !!
> 
> 
> 
> According to a UN report...
> 
> _Around 250 Gazans were killed, over 25,000 others injured, many seriously, including women, children, and clearly identified paramedics and journalists._
> 
> _“(m)ore than 6,000 unarmed demonstrators were shot by (unthreatened IDF) snipers, another 3,098 injured by “bullet fragmentation, rubber-coated metal bullets or by hits from tear gas canisters.”_
> 
> _No Israeli soldiers were killed or injured by Palestinians during demonstrations. The COI cited four IDF soldiers wounded (perhaps by friendly fire), another killed “outside the protest sites.”_
> 
> _Palestinian protests were peaceful, ineffective stone-throwing and incendiary balloons alone used, harming no one.
> _​Is this what Israel is defending itself from?
> 
> _*The murder of Abdel Fatah Nabi (18 years old)*
> “Israeli forces killed Abed, from Beit Lahia, when they shot him in the back of the head as he ran, carrying a tyre, away from and about 400 m from the separation fence.”_​Running "away" from the fence!  How do you attack a country running away from it?
> 
> *The murder of Bader Sabagh (19 years old)*
> _“Bader, from Jabaliya, was killed by Israeli forces when they shot him in the head as he stood smoking a cigarette 300 m from the separation fence.”_​
> So someone standing around smoking a cigarette, is a threat to Israeli national security?
> 
> *Injury and murder of schoolgirl (13 years old) and Marwan Qudieh (45 years old)*
> _“Israeli forces injured a schoolgirl with bullet fragmentation. As she lay on the ground, four men attempted to evacuate her. The forces shot three of them, killing Marwan Qudieh (45) from Khuzaa village and injuring a potato seller and another man in the legs. One of the rescuers had to have a leg amputated.”_​Yeah, people caring for the wounded, is a grave threat to Israel's existence?
> 
> You are really sick in the head trying to defend this shit!
Click to expand...

Tell their leaders to stop inciting their population, stop paying them to go to the border and stop paying them salaries if they get injured or killed.

You are sounding like Memorex.  Repeat, repeat, repeat until it is all worn out.

You are a fan of murderers.  They look good holding knives, machetes, explosives, guns, automatic machines.

Lets show and tell:






Go over to Gaza and tell them to stay away from the border as there isn't ONE Israeli in Gaza for them to call it an "occupation".


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> Manufactured bullshit.


Prove it.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Slyhunter said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nah you have to be sick to believe this shit.
> 
> 
> 
> Normal people usually have evidence to the contrary in order to believe this is bullshit.  Nutjobs believe its bullshit for no reason at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Manufactured bullshit.
Click to expand...

He is Memorex.  
He comes back once a month and repeats and repeats and repeats.  Then he disappears.

There are better things to do than keep answering his nonsensical lack of historical facts.


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Manufactured bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it.
Click to expand...

Where have you been. You've seen and ignored the proof already in this and other threads. Palestinians pretending to be victims. Lines of civilians waiting for their turn to pick up and fire their one and only gun. Dead people laughing because their idiots. I ain't got to prove shit.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Tell their leaders to stop inciting their population, stop paying them to go to the border and stop paying them salaries if they get injured or killed.
> 
> You are sounding like Memorex.  Repeat, repeat, repeat until it is all worn out.
> 
> You are a fan of murderers.  They look good holding knives, machetes, explosives, guns, automatic machines.
> 
> Lets show and tell:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go over to Gaza and tell them to stay away from the border as there isn't ONE Israeli in Gaza for them to call it an "occupation".


I'm repeating?  You can't address one specific point I made.  You just spew out your rehearsed hasbara bullshit ad nauseum.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> He is Memorex.
> He comes back once a month and repeats and repeats and repeats.  Then he disappears.
> 
> There are better things to do than keep answering his nonsensical lack of historical facts.


At least I back up what I say.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell their leaders to stop inciting their population, stop paying them to go to the border and stop paying them salaries if they get injured or killed.
> 
> You are sounding like Memorex.  Repeat, repeat, repeat until it is all worn out.
> 
> You are a fan of murderers.  They look good holding knives, machetes, explosives, guns, automatic machines.
> 
> Lets show and tell:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go over to Gaza and tell them to stay away from the border as there isn't ONE Israeli in Gaza for them to call it an "occupation".
> 
> 
> 
> I'm repeating?  You can't address one specific point I made.  You just spew out your rehearsed hasbara bullshit ad nauseum.
Click to expand...

You come back with the same allegations.  They are taken care of.  A month later you return and make the same allegations again.

There are historical facts.  They have not changed.  Be it during the war of 1967 or the March of return at the border.

You cannot accept them, that will always be YOUR problem and no one else's .


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> He is Memorex.
> He comes back once a month and repeats and repeats and repeats.  Then he disappears.
> 
> There are better things to do than keep answering his nonsensical lack of historical facts.
> 
> 
> 
> At least I back up what I say.
Click to expand...

I see you backing up into your own trap and nearly dying in the quicksand you have created.


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> Where have you been. You've seen and ignored the proof already in this and other threads. Palestinians pretending to be victims. Lines of civilians waiting for their turn to pick up and fire their one and only gun. Dead people laughing because their idiots. I ain't got to prove shit.


So you don't have any proof?


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> You come back with the same allegations.  They are taken care of.  A month later you return and make the same allegations again.
> 
> There are historical facts.  They have not changed.  Be it during the war of 1967 or the March of return at the border.
> 
> You cannot accept them, that will always be YOUR problem and no one else's .


And you think speaking in terms of "they" and "them" is being specific?

You're the one who thinks its okay shooting at people fishing.  I'm not the one who is sick in the head.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where have you been. You've seen and ignored the proof already in this and other threads. Palestinians pretending to be victims. Lines of civilians waiting for their turn to pick up and fire their one and only gun. Dead people laughing because their idiots. I ain't got to prove shit.
> 
> 
> 
> So you don't have any proof?
Click to expand...

The proof is from page one on in this thread.

But you do not like to bother.  You only come here to mess with the other side.

Photos, videos, what do you care.

You just love spitting on Israel, Israelis, Jews, and call the cold blooded murdering Palestinians "victims".

They and you are incredibly good at it.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> I see you backing up into your own trap and nearly dying in the quicksand you have created.


Did you come up with that all on your own, or did you have help?


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where have you been. You've seen and ignored the proof already in this and other threads. Palestinians pretending to be victims. Lines of civilians waiting for their turn to pick up and fire their one and only gun. Dead people laughing because their idiots. I ain't got to prove shit.
> 
> 
> 
> So you don't have any proof?
Click to expand...

fake palestinian - YouTube


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You come back with the same allegations.  They are taken care of.  A month later you return and make the same allegations again.
> 
> There are historical facts.  They have not changed.  Be it during the war of 1967 or the March of return at the border.
> 
> You cannot accept them, that will always be YOUR problem and no one else's .
> 
> 
> 
> And you think speaking in terms of "they" and "them" is being specific?
> 
> You're the one who thinks its okay shooting at people fishing.  I'm not the one who is sick in the head.
Click to expand...

Stop being dramatic.
The fishing issue, they were not "fishing" they were smuggling weapons.

You are not sick?  Fine.

Let us see you not come back to this thread, with all the proof which exists in hundreds of posts here, and repeat and repeat and try to turn your obsession in trying to make the murderers look like the victims, into something normal.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> The proof is from page one on in this thread.
> 
> But you do not like to bother.  You only come here to mess with the other side.
> 
> Photos, videos, what do you care.
> 
> You just love spitting on Israel, Israelis, Jews, and call the cold blooded murdering Palestinians "victims".
> 
> They and you are incredibly good at it.


Who the fuck shoots at people fishing?


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The proof is from page one on in this thread.
> 
> But you do not like to bother.  You only come here to mess with the other side.
> 
> Photos, videos, what do you care.
> 
> You just love spitting on Israel, Israelis, Jews, and call the cold blooded murdering Palestinians "victims".
> 
> They and you are incredibly good at it.
> 
> 
> 
> Who the fuck shoots at people fishing?
Click to expand...

Fake Fishing.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The proof is from page one on in this thread.
> 
> But you do not like to bother.  You only come here to mess with the other side.
> 
> Photos, videos, what do you care.
> 
> You just love spitting on Israel, Israelis, Jews, and call the cold blooded murdering Palestinians "victims".
> 
> They and you are incredibly good at it.
> 
> 
> 
> Who the fuck shoots at people fishing?
Click to expand...

You are so dramatic:

An IDF naval patrol shot and killed a Palestinian fisherman off the coast of the Gaza Strip on Sunday after his boat strayed from the designated fishing zone, the army said in a statement.

“The suspicious ship left the fishing zone off the northern Gaza Strip, with three suspects on it. In response, the IDF troops conducted the arrest protocol, which included calls [to stop], warning shots in the air and shots at the boat itself,” the IDF statement said.

Last week, a Gaza fisherman was shot dead by a Egyptian naval patrol after his boat neared the maritime border with Egypt in the south of the coastal enclave. Gaza officials claimed he had never crossed the naval border into Egypt, and called on Cairo to investigate the circumstances of his death.

Gaza fisherman shot dead by Israeli navy


Let us see you get mad at Egypt as much as you get mad at Israel for doing their job.


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> fake palestinian - YouTube


Okay, your first video shows a guy shooting through a hole in the wall that is about 30" wide.  Then it shows a hole in the same wall that is twice as wide as the first one, with the narrator saying that picture was taken "earlier".  So what did they do, put a few bricks back?  And that sky view cartoon of their position would be more credible if you could actually see the Palestinian in the picture, instead of a photo-shopped arrow placed on top of the video.

Okay, your second video doesn't show the guy eating anything.

And your third video wrongly claims the ambulance stopped short of the man on the ground.  You can clearly see in the video a few seconds before, the ambulance pulled up right along side of him.

There, I responded specifically to your evidence.  We're going to have to agree to disagree, because we seem to be going around in circles.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Stop being dramatic.
> The fishing issue, they were not "fishing" they were smuggling weapons.
> 
> You are not sick?  Fine.
> 
> Let us see you not come back to this thread, with all the proof which exists in hundreds of posts here, and repeat and repeat and try to turn your obsession in trying to make the murderers look like the victims, into something normal.


The video doesn't show that.  But since you brought up the subject, why can't they have weapons?  Are you saying they have no right to defend themselves?  Well, you need weapons to do that.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> fake palestinian - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, your first video shows a guy shooting through a hole in the wall that is about 30" wide.  Then it shows a hole in the same wall that is twice as wide as the first one, with the narrator saying that picture was taken "earlier".  So what did they do, put a few bricks back?  And that sky view cartoon of their position would be more credible if you could actually see the Palestinian in the picture, instead of a photo-shopped arrow placed on top of the video.
> 
> Okay, your second video doesn't show the guy eating anything.
> 
> And your third video wrongly claims the ambulance stopped short of the man on the ground.  You can clearly see in the video a few seconds before, the ambulance pulled up right along side of him.
> 
> There, I responded specifically to your evidence.  We're going to have to agree to disagree, because we seem to be going around in circles.
Click to expand...

You are really dense.  And on purpose.
The first video shows what is called Pallywood. The Palestinians creating videos which are really fake.  They were not shooting against Israeli soldiers, they were faking it shooting against an empty room.

Nothing else needs to be said about your "response" to any of the other videos.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop being dramatic.
> The fishing issue, they were not "fishing" they were smuggling weapons.
> 
> You are not sick?  Fine.
> 
> Let us see you not come back to this thread, with all the proof which exists in hundreds of posts here, and repeat and repeat and try to turn your obsession in trying to make the murderers look like the victims, into something normal.
> 
> 
> 
> The video doesn't show that.  But since you brought up the subject, why can't they have weapons?  Are you saying they have no right to defend themselves?  Well, you need weapons to do that.
Click to expand...

They do not have weapons?  They do not use them?  Ever ?

Get a grip on your fantasy land.

Egypt also stops them from smuggling weapons.  Why would that be?
Egypt also shoots fishermen who go where they are not supposed to go.  Why would that be?


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> Fake Fishing.


Fake argument.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fake Fishing.
> 
> 
> 
> Fake argument.
Click to expand...

Now, Billo.....is that all you can come up with?

Billo the journalist working in Gaza to bring us the latest news against the Israeli "occupation".


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> You are so dramatic:
> 
> An IDF naval patrol shot and killed a Palestinian fisherman off the coast of the Gaza Strip on Sunday after his boat strayed from the designated fishing zone, the army said in a statement.
> 
> “The suspicious ship left the fishing zone off the northern Gaza Strip, with three suspects on it. In response, the IDF troops conducted the arrest protocol, which included calls [to stop], warning shots in the air and shots at the boat itself,” the IDF statement said.
> 
> Last week, a Gaza fisherman was shot dead by a Egyptian naval patrol after his boat neared the maritime border with Egypt in the south of the coastal enclave. Gaza officials claimed he had never crossed the naval border into Egypt, and called on Cairo to investigate the circumstances of his death.
> 
> Gaza fisherman shot dead by Israeli navy
> 
> 
> Let us see you get mad at Egypt as much as you get mad at Israel for doing their job.


Israel has no right telling them where they can fish.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> They do not have weapons?  They do not use them?  Ever ?
> 
> Get a grip on your fantasy land.
> 
> Egypt also stops them from smuggling weapons.  Why would that be?
> Egypt also shoots fishermen who go where they are not supposed to go.  Why would that be?


So you are saying they have no right to defend themselves?


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Now, Billo.....is that all you can come up with?
> 
> Billo the journalist working in Gaza to bring us the latest news against the Israeli "occupation".


WTF do you know?  You live in China.


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> They do not have weapons?  They do not use them?  Ever ?
> 
> Get a grip on your fantasy land.
> 
> Egypt also stops them from smuggling weapons.  Why would that be?
> Egypt also shoots fishermen who go where they are not supposed to go.  Why would that be?
> 
> 
> 
> So you are saying they have no right to defend themselves?
Click to expand...

So now your defending their right to smuggle weapons. You are conceding that they were doing more than just fish. So why the fuck do you keep arguing about Israelis killing fishermen?


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> So now your defending their right to smuggle weapons. You are conceding that they were doing more than just fish. So why the fuck do you keep arguing about Israelis killing fishermen?


I'm just asking the question, "Why can't they have weapons?"  It's like saying they don't have a right to defend themselves.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are so dramatic:
> 
> An IDF naval patrol shot and killed a Palestinian fisherman off the coast of the Gaza Strip on Sunday after his boat strayed from the designated fishing zone, the army said in a statement.
> 
> “The suspicious ship left the fishing zone off the northern Gaza Strip, with three suspects on it. In response, the IDF troops conducted the arrest protocol, which included calls [to stop], warning shots in the air and shots at the boat itself,” the IDF statement said.
> 
> Last week, a Gaza fisherman was shot dead by a Egyptian naval patrol after his boat neared the maritime border with Egypt in the south of the coastal enclave. Gaza officials claimed he had never crossed the naval border into Egypt, and called on Cairo to investigate the circumstances of his death.
> 
> Gaza fisherman shot dead by Israeli navy
> 
> 
> Let us see you get mad at Egypt as much as you get mad at Israel for doing their job.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has no right telling them where they can fish.
Click to expand...

International law allows Israel and Egypt to TELL the Palestinians how far they can go, and if they do not stop when they are told to stop, take the consequences of being shot at and even killed.

Actions have consequences.  Be it from not listening to Israelis to stop, or from the Egyptians to stop

https://nypost.com/2018/01/13/egyptian-navy-fatally-shoots-palestinian-fisherman-at-sea/


And I do not have to wonder why you do not mention anything the Egyptians do to protect their borders and their populations, including keeping the entrance to Egypt mostly closed.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> So now your defending their right to smuggle weapons. You are conceding that they were doing more than just fish. So why the fuck do you keep arguing about Israelis killing fishermen?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just asking the question, "Why can't they have weapons?"  It's like saying they don't have a right to defend themselves.
Click to expand...

You were answered that they do have weapons.  They smuggle them.
And then they use them to attack Israel, to try to invade Israel.  It is called an embargo.  Egypt does the same, but you say nothing about that.

Are you going to continue to live in your fantasy world where Israel "did not" leave Gaza completely in 2005 and that is why the Palestinians started firing even more rockets against Israel with the intention of killing anyone they can on the other side?

This is what the Arabs are all about.  Killing Jews and taking what does not belong to them

Gaza rocket hits bus, Israel launches airstrikes on Palestinian enclave

They are even killing Palestinians in Israel with their endless attacks:

Palestinian killed by Gaza rocket in Israel had nowhere to run, neighbors say


For what?

They have Gaza all to themselves.

So, for what reason have they continued the war against Israel from 2005 until now?


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Presumably it's okay for Israel to continue to shoot the armed, violent ones.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  You can only use deadly force when your life is threatened.  Someone out duck hunting, is not threatening your life.  Someone fishing, is not threatening your life.  Someone standing there smoking a cigarette, is not threatening your life.  First responders giving care to the wounded, is not threatening your life.
Click to expand...


Read what I wrote again.  I didn't say it was permissible to shoot someone who is duck hunting (wtf?), fishing or standing there smoking.  Nor did I say it was permissible to shoot (target) medics. 

I said:  Lethal force is permitted against armed, violent threats.  Yes?!


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Peaceful countries don't imprison 1.5 million people, who have committed no crime, against their will.



Peaceful countries are not in any way required to permit non-citizens to enter their country.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> I'm just asking the question, "Why can't they have weapons?"  It's like saying they don't have a right to defend themselves.



They only have the right to defend themselves if they are being attacked.  There is no March of Israelis trying to break through the fence to kill Arabs.  No IEDs, no fire bomb balloons, no grenades.  NO ONE is attacking the people of Gaza.  

Now, the embargo and border protection is a different thing.  Its is a defensive mechanism against the attacks made by Gaza on Israelis.  Want to stop the embargo and strict border protection?  Stop attacking Israel.  

Its not rocket science.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just asking the question, "Why can't they have weapons?"  It's like saying they don't have a right to defend themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They only have the right to defend themselves if they are being attacked.  There is no March of Israelis trying to break through the fence to kill Arabs.  No IEDs, no fire bomb balloons, no grenades.  NO ONE is attacking the people of Gaza.
> 
> Now, the embargo and border protection is a different thing.  Its is a defensive mechanism against the attacks made by Gaza on Israelis.  Want to stop the embargo and strict border protection?  Stop attacking Israel.
> 
> Its not rocket science.
Click to expand...

A blockade is an act of war.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just asking the question, "Why can't they have weapons?"  It's like saying they don't have a right to defend themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They only have the right to defend themselves if they are being attacked.  There is no March of Israelis trying to break through the fence to kill Arabs.  No IEDs, no fire bomb balloons, no grenades.  NO ONE is attacking the people of Gaza.
> 
> Now, the embargo and border protection is a different thing.  Its is a defensive mechanism against the attacks made by Gaza on Israelis.  Want to stop the embargo and strict border protection?  Stop attacking Israel.
> 
> Its not rocket science.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A blockade is an act of war.
Click to expand...


A blockade is an act of DEFENSE in a war.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just asking the question, "Why can't they have weapons?"  It's like saying they don't have a right to defend themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They only have the right to defend themselves if they are being attacked.  There is no March of Israelis trying to break through the fence to kill Arabs.  No IEDs, no fire bomb balloons, no grenades.  NO ONE is attacking the people of Gaza.
> 
> Now, the embargo and border protection is a different thing.  Its is a defensive mechanism against the attacks made by Gaza on Israelis.  Want to stop the embargo and strict border protection?  Stop attacking Israel.
> 
> Its not rocket science.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A blockade is an act of war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A blockade is an act of DEFENSE in a war.
Click to expand...

Israel is only defending its settler colonial project.


----------



## Sixties Fan

A suspected explosive device connected to a cluster of balloons from the Gaza Strip, which landed in a field in southern Israel on March 24, 2019. (Sha'ar Hanegev Regional Council)

After late-night border violence, suspected explosives found in field near Gaza


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just asking the question, "Why can't they have weapons?"  It's like saying they don't have a right to defend themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They only have the right to defend themselves if they are being attacked.  There is no March of Israelis trying to break through the fence to kill Arabs.  No IEDs, no fire bomb balloons, no grenades.  NO ONE is attacking the people of Gaza.
> 
> Now, the embargo and border protection is a different thing.  Its is a defensive mechanism against the attacks made by Gaza on Israelis.  Want to stop the embargo and strict border protection?  Stop attacking Israel.
> 
> Its not rocket science.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A blockade is an act of war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A blockade is an act of DEFENSE in a war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is only defending its settler colonial project.
Click to expand...


Actually, the Israelis are defending themselves from the Islamist gee-had that has a stated goal the destruction of of Israel. 

Islamic fascism is a dangerous beast and Islamic settler colonialism is the reason why the Islamic Middle East is so terribly retrograde.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> International law allows Israel and Egypt to TELL the Palestinians how far they can go, and if they do not stop when they are told to stop, take the consequences of being shot at and even killed.
> 
> Actions have consequences.  Be it from not listening to Israelis to stop, or from the Egyptians to stop
> 
> https://nypost.com/2018/01/13/egyptian-navy-fatally-shoots-palestinian-fisherman-at-sea/
> 
> 
> And I do not have to wonder why you do not mention anything the Egyptians do to protect their borders and their populations, including keeping the entrance to Egypt mostly closed.


Wrong.  International law sets the distance for territorial waters of any country at 12 nautical miles.  Israel restricts Palestinian fishing to just 6 nautical miles.  There is no law that gives them the authority to do that.  Furthermore, these fishermen being shot at, are in Gazan territorial waters.  An area Israel has no jurisdiction in.

I love how its okay for Israel and Egypt to protect their borders, but the Palestinians are not allowed to do the same?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> International law allows Israel and Egypt to TELL the Palestinians how far they can go, and if they do not stop when they are told to stop, take the consequences of being shot at and even killed.
> 
> Actions have consequences.  Be it from not listening to Israelis to stop, or from the Egyptians to stop
> 
> https://nypost.com/2018/01/13/egyptian-navy-fatally-shoots-palestinian-fisherman-at-sea/
> 
> 
> And I do not have to wonder why you do not mention anything the Egyptians do to protect their borders and their populations, including keeping the entrance to Egypt mostly closed.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  International law sets the distance for territorial waters of any country at 12 nautical miles.  Israel restricts Palestinian fishing to just 6 nautical miles.  There is no law that gives them the authority to do that.  Furthermore, these fishermen being shot at, are in Gazan territorial waters.  An area Israel has no jurisdiction in.
> 
> I love how its okay for Israel and Egypt to protect their borders, but the Palestinians are not allowed to do the same?
Click to expand...

That is the price some fishermen have to pay for enabling their leaders for firing rockets, attempting to invade Israel, sending incendiary and explosive balloons into Israeli territory which has cause great damage to the Israeli environment, setting granades, explosives at the border fence in order to destroy it to ease an invasion of armed Hamas members and any other civilians with any kind of weapons intent on killing any Jews they find......

Actions have consequences and you can continue to cry your heart out for those bloody murderers wannabes all you like.  Israel will continue to protect its territory and population, which includes Palestinians the ones in Gaza have killed intending to kill Jews.

Any other country would have already bombed Gaza out of existence.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> You were answered that they do have weapons.


I didn't say they have weapons.  I asked the question "why can't they?"  The fact that you have to strawman every opposing argument, shows you don't have one yourself.



Sixties Fan said:


> They smuggle them.
> And then they use them to attack Israel, to try to invade Israel.


They are not attacking Israel.  They are defending their homeland from foreign aggression.  Remember, you're the fuckers who moved into the area, not them.



Sixties Fan said:


> It is called an embargo.  Egypt does the same, but you say nothing about that.


It's not a Egyptian embargo, its an Israeli one.  One Israel started because they didn't like the results of a fair and democratic election.



Sixties Fan said:


> Are you going to continue to live in your fantasy world where Israel "did not" leave Gaza completely in 2005 and that is why the Palestinians started firing even more rockets against Israel with the intention of killing anyone they can on the other side?


Israel controls 80% of what goes in to and out of Gaza.  That's not leaving.



Sixties Fan said:


> This is what the Arabs are all about.  Killing Jews and taking what does not belong to them


Tell that to the victims of Deir Yassen.



Sixties Fan said:


> Gaza rocket hits bus, Israel launches airstrikes on Palestinian enclave
> 
> They are even killing Palestinians in Israel with their endless attacks:
> 
> Palestinian killed by Gaza rocket in Israel had nowhere to run, neighbors say
> 
> 
> For what?
> 
> They have Gaza all to themselves.
> 
> So, for what reason have they continued the war against Israel from 2005 until now?


The rockets didn't start falling until 2001.  That's 34 years after the occupation began.  Israel is the aggressor.  The Palestinian's are the defenders.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Read what I wrote again.  I didn't say it was permissible to shoot someone who is duck hunting (wtf?), fishing or standing there smoking.  Nor did I say it was permissible to shoot (target) medics.


You don't say.  Your silence on that issue speaks volumes.



Shusha said:


> I said:  Lethal force is permitted against armed, violent threats.  Yes?!


Lethal force is permitted when your life is threatened.  Someone throwing a rock 900 feet away is not threatening your life.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Peaceful countries are not in any way required to permit non-citizens to enter their country.


And they also have no right to shoot people who are NOT in their country.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You were answered that they do have weapons.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say they have weapons.  I asked the question "why can't they?"  The fact that you have to strawman every opposing argument, shows you don't have one yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> They smuggle them.
> And then they use them to attack Israel, to try to invade Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are not attacking Israel.  They are defending their homeland from foreign aggression.  Remember, you're the fuckers who moved into the area, not them.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is called an embargo.  Egypt does the same, but you say nothing about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not a Egyptian embargo, its an Israeli one.  One Israel started because they didn't like the results of a fair and democratic election.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you going to continue to live in your fantasy world where Israel "did not" leave Gaza completely in 2005 and that is why the Palestinians started firing even more rockets against Israel with the intention of killing anyone they can on the other side?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel controls 80% of what goes in to and out of Gaza.  That's not leaving.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is what the Arabs are all about.  Killing Jews and taking what does not belong to them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tell that to the victims of Deir Yassen.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza rocket hits bus, Israel launches airstrikes on Palestinian enclave
> 
> They are even killing Palestinians in Israel with their endless attacks:
> 
> Palestinian killed by Gaza rocket in Israel had nowhere to run, neighbors say
> 
> 
> For what?
> 
> They have Gaza all to themselves.
> 
> So, for what reason have they continued the war against Israel from 2005 until now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The rockets didn't start falling until 2001.  That's 34 years after the occupation began.  Israel is the aggressor.  The Palestinian's are the defenders.
Click to expand...

They should no more have weapons than Germany or Japan in WWII.  They want to kill people, instead of building a State.

Give yourself a break for that second paragraph.  Their homeland is Gaza.  The whole territory was given to them, lock, stock and barrel without any requests for anything else in return.  Let them go build it instead of trying to take over Israel.
Jews returned to their homeland.  To return = going back.
Arabs = those from Arabia, not indigenous to the land and not "coming back" to the area originally known as Canaan.

 [ BOTH  Israel and Egypt block a lot of things from Gaza which would harm either country, you accept it or not]

Israel built the Israel and Egypt–Gaza Strip barrier between 1994 and 2005, as a security measure to stop the infiltration of terrorists, including suicide bombers, into Israel. The construction of a border fence was envisaged in the Oslo Accords, as was the control by Israel of all borders of the Palestinian territories. There are four border crossings through the barrier: the Kerem Shalom, Karni, Erez, and Sufa crossings. All goods bound for Gaza through Israel must pass through one of these crossings, and undergo security inspection before being permitted into Gaza.

*Additionally, the Egypt-Gaza barrier was built underground by Egypt starting in 2009. The stated aim was to block smuggling tunnels. The Egyptian Border Police maintain a presence along the Egypt-Gaza border.* The Rafah Border Crossing is the only lawful crossing point between Egypt and Gaza, and was manned by Palestinian Authority security forces and the European Union Border Assistance Mission Rafah.[21] All humanitarian supplies are transferred through Israel or Egypt via the land crossings after security inspection.

One year after the 2005 disengagement from the Gaza Strip by Israel, Hamas won the Palestinian legislative elections in January 2006, winning control of the Palestinian Legislative Council. Israel and the Quartet on the Middle East had stated that their continued aid to the PA under a Hamas government was conditional on Hamas' recognition of Israel, the disavowal of violent actions, and acceptance of previous agreements between Israel and the PA, including the Oslo Accords. When Hamas formed a government in March 2006 led by Ismail Haniya, refusing to accept these conditions, Israel and the Quartet stopped having any dialogue with the Palestinian Authority and especially any member of the Hamas government, ceased providing aid to the PA and imposed sanctions against the PA.[3]

In March 2007, Hamas and Fatah formed a PA unity government, also headed by Haniya. Shortly after, in June, Hamas took control of the Gaza Strip during the Battle of Gaza,[1] seizing government institutions and replacing Fatah and other government officials with Hamas members.[2*]** Following the takeover, besides other measures, Israel and Egypt closed the border crossings with Gaza, marking the start of the blockade of the Gaza Strip. *At the same time, international relations and aid to the Fatah-led government in the West Bank resumed and the economic sanctions lifted.

Blockade of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia
-----------------

Gaza is lucky that Israel allows anything at all.  If it were Russia, Syria or Saudi Arabia as neighbors, Gaza would be starving by now.  Remember that !!!

-----------------------
Deir Yassen never happened.


[ Let us see you call this resident of Deir Yassen a liar ]

---------------------
The aggression and declaration of war started in 1920 when Arabs were made to riot against the Jews.  And then more riots and expulsions of Jews in 1921, 1929, 1936-39 and a full scale 7 Arab nations war against newly Independent Israel.


Such crocodile tears.  They would never be shed if it was Muslim against Muslim, or Muslim against Christians.

Occupation is what Jordan was doing in Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.

Let us hear it from the Arabs during those years clamoring and demanding their own State and demanding that Jordan end their occupation.


What?


What?


I cannot hear you, Arabs  !!!! 
 [  Not ONE Arab raises their voice, be it in Gaza to make the Egyptians let Gaza be free, or the ones in Judea, Samaria or the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem, not ONE of their leaders raised their voices to riot, make demands, go to the UN, or even the Arab League. Not ONE Egyptian or Jordanian life was taken by the Arabs in those areas during those 19 years ]


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> They only have the right to defend themselves if they are being attacked.  There is no March of Israelis trying to break through the fence to kill Arabs.  No IEDs, no fire bomb balloons, no grenades.  NO ONE is attacking the people of Gaza.
> 
> Now, the embargo and border protection is a different thing.  Its is a defensive mechanism against the attacks made by Gaza on Israelis.  Want to stop the embargo and strict border protection?  Stop attacking Israel.
> 
> Its not rocket science.


What do you call this?


How is fishing a threat you have to defend yourself from?

And this...


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Peaceful countries are not in any way required to permit non-citizens to enter their country.
> 
> 
> 
> And they also have no right to shoot people who are NOT in their country.
Click to expand...

Fascinating how you invent things.
In other words, Egypt did not have any right to shoot at these people:

"Egypt has a record of shooting unarmed sub-Saharan African refugees as they approach Israel's border," he told Al Jazeera.

"We call on Egypt to end this policy of shooting unarmed [refugees] and investigate those who are responsible for these deaths." 

Sudanese refugees shot dead on Egypt-Israel border


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> A blockade is an act of DEFENSE in a war.


An occupational force cannot claim self defense.

Can you claim you were defending yourself, if you were the one who invaded someone else's house to kill the home owner?


----------



## Billo_Really

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel is only defending its settler colonial project.


And those settlers (I call them Israeli insurgents), are the absolute bottom of the barrel scum of Israeli citizens.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Actually, the Israelis are defending themselves from the Islamist gee-had that has a stated goal the destruction of of Israel.
> 
> Islamic fascism is a dangerous beast and Islamic settler colonialism is the reason why the Islamic Middle East is so terribly retrograde.


Holy Hollie Batman, will she ever live in the now?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> A blockade is an act of DEFENSE in a war.
> 
> 
> 
> An occupational force cannot claim self defense.
> 
> Can you claim you were defending yourself, if you were the one who invaded someone else's house to kill the home owner?
Click to expand...

The Jews being the indigenous people of the region called by the Romans Syria Palestine and which name was also used by the British for the Mandate to reconstitute the Jewish Nation ON the Jewish ancient homeland.........have every right to defend themselves from those who not only taken away more than 78% of their HOME, but the 22 % of what is left of their home which the armed invaders are intent in taking, at any cost.

How did Hebron become mostly Arab after 1929?
The Arabs came in and attacked the Jews, murdering many of them.  The British then made sure all the other Jews were made to leave, expelling them, exactly as they did in Gaza in 1920.

Arabs and British = foreign invaders attempting to keep the Jews from legally reconstituting their Nation ON their ancient homeland.


What other crocodile tears do you have to shed for us?


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> That is the price some fishermen have to pay for enabling their leaders for firing rockets, attempting to invade Israel, sending incendiary and explosive balloons into Israeli territory which has cause great damage to the Israeli environment, setting granades, explosives at the border fence in order to destroy it to ease an invasion of armed Hamas members and any other civilians with any kind of weapons intent on killing any Jews they find......
> 
> Actions have consequences and you can continue to cry your heart out for those bloody murderers wannabes all you like.  Israel will continue to protect its territory and population, which includes Palestinians the ones in Gaza have killed intending to kill Jews.
> 
> Any other country would have already bombed Gaza out of existence.


You cannot claim self defense when you are the one causing the violence in the first place.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> They should no more have weapons than Germany or Japan in WWII.  They want to kill people, instead of building a State.


They can't build a state.  Israel will not allow building materials into the area.



Sixties Fan said:


> Give yourself a break for that second paragraph.  Their homeland is Gaza.  The whole territory was given to them, lock, stock and barrel without any requests for anything else in return.  Let them go build it instead of trying to take over Israel.
> Jews returned to their homeland.  To return = going back.
> Arabs = those from Arabia, not indigenous to the land and not "coming back" to the area originally known as Canaan.


You can't give what you don't have.  Gaza was not Israel's to give.



Sixties Fan said:


> [ BOTH  Israel and Egypt block a lot of things from Gaza which would harm either country, you accept it or not]


People seeking cancer treatment is causing you harm?



Sixties Fan said:


> Israel built the Israel and Egypt–Gaza Strip barrier between 1994 and 2005, as a security measure to stop the infiltration of terrorists, including suicide bombers, into Israel. The construction of a border fence was envisaged in the Oslo Accords, as was the control by Israel of all borders of the Palestinian territories. There are four border crossings through the barrier: the Kerem Shalom, Karni, Erez, and Sufa crossings. All goods bound for Gaza through Israel must pass through one of these crossings, and undergo security inspection before being permitted into Gaza.
> 
> *Additionally, the Egypt-Gaza barrier was built underground by Egypt starting in 2009. The stated aim was to block smuggling tunnels. The Egyptian Border Police maintain a presence along the Egypt-Gaza border.* The Rafah Border Crossing is the only lawful crossing point between Egypt and Gaza, and was manned by Palestinian Authority security forces and the European Union Border Assistance Mission Rafah.[21] All humanitarian supplies are transferred through Israel or Egypt via the land crossings after security inspection.
> 
> One year after the 2005 disengagement from the Gaza Strip by Israel, Hamas won the Palestinian legislative elections in January 2006, winning control of the Palestinian Legislative Council. Israel and the Quartet on the Middle East had stated that their continued aid to the PA under a Hamas government was conditional on Hamas' recognition of Israel, the disavowal of violent actions, and acceptance of previous agreements between Israel and the PA, including the Oslo Accords. When Hamas formed a government in March 2006 led by Ismail Haniya, refusing to accept these conditions, Israel and the Quartet stopped having any dialogue with the Palestinian Authority and especially any member of the Hamas government, ceased providing aid to the PA and imposed sanctions against the PA.[3]
> 
> In March 2007, Hamas and Fatah formed a PA unity government, also headed by Haniya. Shortly after, in June, Hamas took control of the Gaza Strip during the Battle of Gaza,[1] seizing government institutions and replacing Fatah and other government officials with Hamas members.[2*]** Following the takeover, besides other measures, Israel and Egypt closed the border crossings with Gaza, marking the start of the blockade of the Gaza Strip. *At the same time, international relations and aid to the Fatah-led government in the West Bank resumed and the economic sanctions lifted.
> 
> Blockade of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia
> -----------------
> 
> Gaza is lucky that Israel allows anything at all.  If it were Russia, Syria or Saudi Arabia as neighbors, Gaza would be starving by now.  Remember that !!!
> 
> -----------------------
> Deir Yassen never happened.
> 
> 
> [ Let us see you call this resident of Deir Yassen a liar ]
> 
> ---------------------
> The aggression and declaration of war started in 1920 when Arabs were made to riot against the Jews.  And then more riots and expulsions of Jews in 1921, 1929, 1936-39 and a full scale 7 Arab nations war against newly Independent Israel.
> 
> 
> Such crocodile tears.  They would never be shed if it was Muslim against Muslim, or Muslim against Christians.
> 
> Occupation is what Jordan was doing in Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.
> 
> Let us hear it from the Arabs during those years clamoring and demanding their own State and demanding that Jordan end their occupation.
> 
> 
> What?
> 
> 
> What?
> 
> 
> I cannot hear you, Arabs  !!!!
> [  Not ONE Arab raises their voice, be it in Gaza to make the Egyptians let Gaza be free, or the ones in Judea, Samaria or the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem, not ONE of their leaders raised their voices to riot, make demands, go to the UN, or even the Arab League. Not ONE Egyptian or Jordanian life was taken by the Arabs in those areas during those 19 years ]


The rest of your post is just hasbara bullshit.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Fascinating how you invent things.
> In other words, Egypt did not have any right to shoot at these people:
> 
> "Egypt has a record of shooting unarmed sub-Saharan African refugees as they approach Israel's border," he told Al Jazeera.
> 
> "We call on Egypt to end this policy of shooting unarmed [refugees] and investigate those who are responsible for these deaths."
> 
> Sudanese refugees shot dead on Egypt-Israel border


I didn't invent anything.  Egypt was not the one shooting at March of Return protesters.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Israelis are defending themselves from the Islamist gee-had that has a stated goal the destruction of of Israel.
> 
> Islamic fascism is a dangerous beast and Islamic settler colonialism is the reason why the Islamic Middle East is so terribly retrograde.
> 
> 
> 
> Holy Hollie Batman, will she ever live in the now?
Click to expand...


I’m living in the now. Now, (right now in the event you missed it), there are pious Moslems mobbed near the Israeli border who have announced their intention to crash that border and launch themselves into a Jew killing frenzy. 

You missed the news?


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> The Jews being the indigenous people of the region called by the Romans Syria Palestine and which name was also used by the British for the Mandate to reconstitute the Jewish Nation ON the Jewish ancient homeland.........have every right to defend themselves from those who not only taken away more than 78% of their HOME, but the 22 % of what is left of their home which the armed invaders are intent in taking, at any cost.
> 
> How did Hebron become mostly Arab after 1929?
> The Arabs came in and attacked the Jews, murdering many of them.  The British then made sure all the other Jews were made to leave, expelling them, exactly as they did in Gaza in 1920.
> 
> Arabs and British = foreign invaders attempting to keep the Jews from legally reconstituting their Nation ON their ancient homeland.
> 
> 
> What other crocodile tears do you have to shed for us?


Indigenous Palestinian-Jews and Palestinian-Arabs lived in relative peace with each other until asshole, racist Zionists moved into the area.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fascinating how you invent things.
> In other words, Egypt did not have any right to shoot at these people:
> 
> "Egypt has a record of shooting unarmed sub-Saharan African refugees as they approach Israel's border," he told Al Jazeera.
> 
> "We call on Egypt to end this policy of shooting unarmed [refugees] and investigate those who are responsible for these deaths."
> 
> Sudanese refugees shot dead on Egypt-Israel border
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't invent anything.  Egypt was not the one shooting at March of Return protesters.
Click to expand...


The gee-had to kill Jews is not aimed at killing Jews in Egypt. That might be why the gee-had to kill Jews is near the Israeli border and why Israel is culling the gee-had wannabes. 

We cull bad bulls from the herd, why not cull the more adventurous of the gee-had killers.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> I’m living in the now. Now, (right now in the event you missed it), there are pious Moslems mobbed near the Israeli border who have announced their intention to crash that border and launch themselves into a Jew killing frenzy.
> 
> You missed the news?


You're a valley girl.  That doesn't count.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jews being the indigenous people of the region called by the Romans Syria Palestine and which name was also used by the British for the Mandate to reconstitute the Jewish Nation ON the Jewish ancient homeland.........have every right to defend themselves from those who not only taken away more than 78% of their HOME, but the 22 % of what is left of their home which the armed invaders are intent in taking, at any cost.
> 
> How did Hebron become mostly Arab after 1929?
> The Arabs came in and attacked the Jews, murdering many of them.  The British then made sure all the other Jews were made to leave, expelling them, exactly as they did in Gaza in 1920.
> 
> Arabs and British = foreign invaders attempting to keep the Jews from legally reconstituting their Nation ON their ancient homeland.
> 
> 
> What other crocodile tears do you have to shed for us?
> 
> 
> 
> Indigenous Palestinian-Jews and Palestinian-Arabs lived in relative peace with each other until asshole, racist Zionists moved into the area.
Click to expand...


Relative peace was maintained by Arab-Moslem fascists because at one time, they could impose and enforce the dhimmis status.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m living in the now. Now, (right now in the event you missed it), there are pious Moslems mobbed near the Israeli border who have announced their intention to crash that border and launch themselves into a Jew killing frenzy.
> 
> You missed the news?
> 
> 
> 
> You're a valley girl.  That doesn't count.
Click to expand...


It’s easy to send you scurrying away. Just hit you with the facts and you bugger off.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> They only have the right to defend themselves if they are being attacked.  There is no March of Israelis trying to break through the fence to kill Arabs.  No IEDs, no fire bomb balloons, no grenades.  NO ONE is attacking the people of Gaza.
> 
> Now, the embargo and border protection is a different thing.  Its is a defensive mechanism against the attacks made by Gaza on Israelis.  Want to stop the embargo and strict border protection?  Stop attacking Israel.
> 
> Its not rocket science.
> 
> 
> 
> What do you call this?
> 
> 
> How is fishing a threat you have to defend yourself from?
> 
> And this...
Click to expand...


Someone took the time to edit / photoshop the YouTube videos. Who would that be?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> A blockade is an act of DEFENSE in a war.
> 
> 
> 
> An occupational force cannot claim self defense.
> 
> Can you claim you were defending yourself, if you were the one who invaded someone else's house to kill the home owner?
Click to expand...




Billo_Really said:


> An occupational force cannot claim self defense.


That's true. You cannot claim self defense over an occupied people.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> A blockade is an act of DEFENSE in a war.
> 
> 
> 
> An occupational force cannot claim self defense.
> 
> Can you claim you were defending yourself, if you were the one who invaded someone else's house to kill the home owner?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> An occupational force cannot claim self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's true. You cannot claim self defense over an occupied people.
Click to expand...

Which is exactly what Fatah and other citizens in Gaza are saying about Hamas and their forced government, textbooks, buses to the order.........etc    on them.

Free, Free Gaza  !!!


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel is only defending its settler colonial project.



Israel is defending the Jewish people's right to self-determination and sovereignty in her homeland.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> You don't say.  Your silence on that issue speaks volumes.


You are not paying attention.  I have said over and over again that it is not permissible to target non-combatants, nor use weapons indiscriminately.



> Lethal force is permitted when your life is threatened.  Someone throwing a rock 900 feet away is not threatening your life.


Lethal force in conflict is permitted against combatants and those who participate in hostilities, as well as members of militas and armed forces.  And using slings to hurl projectiles is most certainly potentially lethal, as are grenades, IEDs, firebombs and (obviously) guns. 

But since you want to play that silly game -- Gazans would also have NO RIGHT to use lethal force, unless their lives are immediately and directly threatened.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> And they also have no right to shoot people who are NOT in their country.



They absolutely have a right to defend themselves from people illegally trying to enter their country with weapons in order to harm their citizens and soldiers.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> How is fishing a threat you have to defend yourself from?



Fishing is not a threat.  Smuggling weapons on fishing boats is the threat.  You know this.  Don't play so dumb.


----------



## Sixties Fan

All the way from Portland, Truzman disproved major points in the recently released UN Human Rights Council report—namely, that many of the report’s “victims” shot by soldiers of the Israeli Defense Force were actually members of militant groups, including Hamas. Following are militants who Truzman showed were falsely characterized in the reports as “victims of IDF gunfire” :


Mahmoud Abu Taima: The UN report claims that Taima was killed approximately 150 meters from the fence, but the report failed to mention he was a fighter of Hamas’s military wing, Al-Qassam Brigades, as listed on one of their websites.
Abed Hawajri: The report notes that Hawajri was shot in the abdomen 150 meters from the fence, but neglects Hawajri’s affiliation with the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP). Hawajri was a field a commander in the DFLP’s military wing and was one of the founders of the ground in the Nusierat camp in Gaza. Video evidence shows that DFLP militants surrounded his funeral.
Jihad Abu Jamous: The Commission of Inquiry stated in its report that Jamous was shot in the head approximately 300 meters from the security fence, but did not mention that he was a militant in the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades. Jamous was also a field commander of the al-Amoudi Brigade, a branch of the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades.
Ahmed Sha’ar: Sha’ar was described in the commission’s report as a child killed by the IDF on May 14, 2018. Evidence from the Palestinian Islamic Jihad website reveals that Sha’ar was a fighter in Saraya al-Quds, the militant wing of Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
Truzman pointed out he has other examples that he didn’t have time to mention in his address to the United Nations, including Naji Abu Hajir, who the Commission of Inquiry mentioned as a mechanic and killed by IDF gunfire. “There was nothing about him and his affiliation with Hamas’s military wing, Al-Qassam Brigades,” 
Truzman told JNS. “It took me only a few minutes to find that he was a militant,” he added.

(full article online)

Experts Reveal: UN Knew of Militant Activity on Gaza Border, But Did Not Report It


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> A blockade is an act of DEFENSE in a war.
> 
> 
> 
> An occupational force cannot claim self defense.
> 
> Can you claim you were defending yourself, if you were the one who invaded someone else's house to kill the home owner?
Click to expand...


PAH-leeze.  Gaza is not being invaded.  Gaza was unilaterally abandoned by Israel.  You have inverted reality (seems to be a trend on Team Palestine).  It is Gazans who are trying to cross the border in the "Great March" and invade Israel with slogans like, "rip the hearts out of Jews".  Preventing that is self-defense.  (And there is no occupation.)


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> They can't build a state.  Israel will not allow building materials into the area.


Really?!  They somehow managed to find *100s of millions of dollars* worth of concrete to build tunnels.  Is there a special type of concrete needed to build a hospital or a school or a home instead of tunnel?  Or is only the special-tunnel-building concrete being allowed into Gaza?



> People seeking cancer treatment is causing you harm?


No.  But people who use cancer treatment as a method of smuggling weapons does.  


Are you seeing the trend here?  You keep insisting that Gazans are not attempting to harm Israel and her citizens.  And its bullshit and you know it.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> A blockade is an act of DEFENSE in a war.
> 
> 
> 
> An occupational force cannot claim self defense.
> 
> Can you claim you were defending yourself, if you were the one who invaded someone else's house to kill the home owner?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> An occupational force cannot claim self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's true. You cannot claim self defense over an occupied people.
Click to expand...


Individuals, (in this case Israelis), have the right to self defense.

You cannot declare your intent to kill Israelis, act out those intentions, and then claim the Israelis don’t have the right to self defense.

The Islamist gee-had carries consequences. But then, your gee-had from behind a keyboard while flailing your Pom Poms rather limits your credibility.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jews being the indigenous people of the region called by the Romans Syria Palestine and which name was also used by the British for the Mandate to reconstitute the Jewish Nation ON the Jewish ancient homeland.........have every right to defend themselves from those who not only taken away more than 78% of their HOME, but the 22 % of what is left of their home which the armed invaders are intent in taking, at any cost.
> 
> How did Hebron become mostly Arab after 1929?
> The Arabs came in and attacked the Jews, murdering many of them.  The British then made sure all the other Jews were made to leave, expelling them, exactly as they did in Gaza in 1920.
> 
> Arabs and British = foreign invaders attempting to keep the Jews from legally reconstituting their Nation ON their ancient homeland.
> 
> 
> What other crocodile tears do you have to shed for us?
> 
> 
> 
> Indigenous Palestinian-Jews and Palestinian-Arabs lived in relative peace with each other until asshole, racist Zionists moved into the area.
Click to expand...


How come Zionism started as a response to Arab pogroms against the Jews?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> A blockade is an act of DEFENSE in a war.
> 
> 
> 
> An occupational force cannot claim self defense.
> 
> Can you claim you were defending yourself, if you were the one who invaded someone else's house to kill the home owner?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> An occupational force cannot claim self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's true. You cannot claim self defense over an occupied people.
Click to expand...


Indeed, cannot claim self defense if Your national group is literally called "INVADERS" in the local language,
who would that be?


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> It’s easy to send you scurrying away. Just hit you with the facts and you bugger off.


What facts were those?


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Someone took the time to edit / photoshop the YouTube videos. Who would that be?


That doesn't make the picture false.  The fishing boat is real.  The IDF gunboat is real.  The bullets skipping across the water is real.  The video showing all this taking place is real.  The only thing that is not real, is your bullshit innuendo.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Which is exactly what Fatah and other citizens in Gaza are saying about Hamas and their forced government, textbooks, buses to the order.........etc    on them.
> 
> Free, Free Gaza  !!!


Unfortunately, that is not Hamas's call to make.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Lethal force in conflict is permitted against combatants and those who participate in hostilities, as well as members of militas and armed forces.  And using slings to hurl projectiles is most certainly potentially lethal, as are grenades, IEDs, firebombs and (obviously) guns.
> 
> But since you want to play that silly game -- Gazans would also have NO RIGHT to use lethal force, unless their lives are immediately and directly threatened.


Israeli snipers deliberately murdering 187 and maiming over 6000 non-combatants are putting their lives in danger.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> They absolutely have a right to defend themselves from people illegally trying to enter their country with weapons in order to harm their citizens and soldiers.


But these aren't the people we are talking about.  We are talking about a guy standing there with a cigarette being shot in the back of the head.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Fishing is not a threat.  Smuggling weapons on fishing boats is the threat.  You know this.  Don't play so dumb.


You are full of shit!  Someone having a gun, is not a threat, unless it is directly pointed at you.  And besides, these people weren't smuggling...

...*THEY WERE*

*FUCKING*

*FISHING!*


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Really?!  They somehow managed to find *100s of millions of dollars* worth of concrete to build tunnels.  Is there a special type of concrete needed to build a hospital or a school or a home instead of tunnel?  Or is only the special-tunnel-building concrete being allowed into Gaza?
> 
> No.  But people who use cancer treatment as a method of smuggling weapons does.
> 
> Are you seeing the trend here?  You keep insisting that Gazans are not attempting to harm Israel and her citizens.  And its bullshit and you know it.


You know, you can almost see the hatred in your posts you have for Palestinians.  Your posts clearly demonstrate you view these people as sub-human.  That there is nothing you can do to these people that would be too horrific.  That's why its so funny you trying to argue you that all the anger and violence is coming from THEM!


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lethal force in conflict is permitted against combatants and those who participate in hostilities, as well as members of militas and armed forces.  And using slings to hurl projectiles is most certainly potentially lethal, as are grenades, IEDs, firebombs and (obviously) guns.
> 
> But since you want to play that silly game -- Gazans would also have NO RIGHT to use lethal force, unless their lives are immediately and directly threatened.
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli snipers deliberately murdering 187 and maiming over 6000 non-combatants are putting their lives in danger.
Click to expand...


They are not non-combatants.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Individuals, (in this case Israelis), have the right to self defense.
> 
> You cannot declare your intent to kill Israelis, act out those intentions, and then claim the Israelis don’t have the right to self defense.
> 
> The Islamist gee-had carries consequences. But then, your gee-had from behind a keyboard while flailing your Pom Poms rather limits your credibility.


And you cannot claim self defense when you invade someone's home and they put up more resistance than anticipated.


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> How come Zionism started as a response to Arab pogroms against the Jews?


Pogroms happened in that area over almost 100 years prior.  You cannot find any major incidents of violence in that area between 1830 and the Zionist migration at the turn of the century.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> You are full of shit!  Someone having a gun, is not a threat, unless it is directly pointed at you.



Your standards are ridiculous and you apply them to no other state other than Israel.  

But thank you, playing your own silly game, you have just confirmed that Gaza has NO RIGHT to use any sort of violence or lethal force unless a gun is pointed at them.


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> Indeed, cannot claim self defense if Your national group is literally called "INVADERS" in the local language,
> who would that be?


You are invaders.  If the shoe fits...


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> They are not non-combatants.


That's the bullshit lie you keep telling.  However, your country has priors.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> You know, you can almost see the hatred in your posts you have for Palestinians. Your posts clearly demonstrate you view these people as sub-human. That there is nothing you can do to these people that would be too horrific. That's why its so funny you trying to argue you that all the anger and violence is coming from THEM!



Oh, please?  Is that what you are going to fall back on?  Because I call out the people and government of Gaza for building tunnels instead of homes and schools and hospitals -- I am the evil one who views them as sub-human?  Give me a break.  Do better.

I believe in the rights of the people of Gaza to self-determination.  The route to that is peace with Israel.  Not rocket science. Just stop attacking Israel and start developing a state.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Your standards are ridiculous and you apply them to no other state other than Israel.
> 
> But thank you, playing your own silly game, you have just confirmed that Gaza has NO RIGHT to use any sort of violence or lethal force unless a gun is pointed at them.


I think Israeli snipers shooting March of Return protesters qualifies as a "gun pointed at you".


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are not non-combatants.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the bullshit lie you keep telling.  However, your country has priors.
Click to expand...


People using lethal projectiles, firebombs, IEDs, grenades, guns, knives, etc. are NOT non-combatants.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> I think Israeli snipers shooting March of Return protesters qualifies as a "gun pointed at you".



Could you be any more ridiculous?  Order of events:  1.  March of Return.  2.  Israel responds to protect its borders and citizens.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Oh, please?  Is that what you are going to fall back on?  Because I call out the people and government of Gaza for building tunnels instead of homes and schools and hospitals -- I am the evil one who views them as sub-human?  Give me a break.  Do better.
> 
> I believe in the rights of the people of Gaza to self-determination.  The route to that is peace with Israel.  Not rocket science. Just stop attacking Israel and start developing a state.


You can't stop something you didn't start.  Israel started this and Israel needs to end it, because sooner or later, that decision will no longer be Israel's to make.  Your (and Israel's) lack of empathy for these people is on display for the entire world to see.  You are losing support in every corner of the planet.  You are being viewed as a pariah nation.  And one day the world community is going to get sick of this bullshit and do something about it.  Just like it did to Germany 70 years ago.

American Jews don't want to be associated with your bullshit government.  And the progressives in my country now have control over 1/2 of the government.  We are going to get the other half next election.  Once that happens, you will not be under the US nuclear umbrella.  You will not be protected by our veto in the UNSC.  You will not be getting billions of dollars in aid.  What you might get, is payback for the USS Liberty.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> People using lethal projectiles, firebombs, IEDs, grenades, guns, knives, etc. are NOT non-combatants.


End the occupation and blockade and you will end the violence.  You started this, not them.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Could you be any more ridiculous?  Order of events:  1.  March of Return.  2.  Israel responds to protect its borders and citizens.


They were unarmed, peaceful protesters you deliberately murdered in cold blood.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> How come Zionism started as a response to Arab pogroms against the Jews?
> 
> 
> 
> Pogroms happened in that area over almost 100 years prior.  You cannot find any major incidents of violence in that area between 1830 and the Zionist migration at the turn of the century.
Click to expand...

Expulsion of Jews from all of their holy cities, and the Arab pogroms throughout the Caliphate that happened exactly in that period of history, are not considered "major violence"?


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, cannot claim self defense if Your national group is literally called "INVADERS" in the local language,
> who would that be?
> 
> 
> 
> You are invaders.  If the shoe fits...
Click to expand...

You keep saying,
but what does the word "Palestinian" mean in the local language?


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could you be any more ridiculous?  Order of events:  1.  March of Return.  2.  Israel responds to protect its borders and citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> They were unarmed, peaceful protesters you deliberately murdered in cold blood.
Click to expand...


_Unarmed_, _peaceful_ _protestors_™️ who were armed and had announced their intention to “rip the hearts out” of the Jews.

Obviously, you’re clueless.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> People using lethal projectiles, firebombs, IEDs, grenades, guns, knives, etc. are NOT non-combatants.
> 
> 
> 
> End the occupation and blockade and you will end the violence.  You started this, not them.
Click to expand...


The same tired slogans. Yet, somehow, Arabs-Moslems are slaughtering each other across the Islamic Middle East and there’s not a peep, not a whimper from you rabid Jew haters.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, please?  Is that what you are going to fall back on?  Because I call out the people and government of Gaza for building tunnels instead of homes and schools and hospitals -- I am the evil one who views them as sub-human?  Give me a break.  Do better.
> 
> I believe in the rights of the people of Gaza to self-determination.  The route to that is peace with Israel.  Not rocket science. Just stop attacking Israel and start developing a state.
> 
> 
> 
> You can't stop something you didn't start.  Israel started this and Israel needs to end it, because sooner or later, that decision will no longer be Israel's to make.  Your (and Israel's) lack of empathy for these people is on display for the entire world to see.  You are losing support in every corner of the planet.  You are being viewed as a pariah nation.  And one day the world community is going to get sick of this bullshit and do something about it.  Just like it did to Germany 70 years ago.
> 
> American Jews don't want to be associated with your bullshit government.  And the progressives in my country now have control over 1/2 of the government.  We are going to get the other half next election.  Once that happens, you will not be under the US nuclear umbrella.  You will not be protected by our veto in the UNSC.  You will not be getting billions of dollars in aid.  What you might get, is payback for the USS Liberty.
Click to expand...


The advance of the great leftist / socialist army. It’s a wonder to behold.


----------



## Hollie

Courtesy home remodeling. 



Israel strikes Gaza after rocket fire


*Israel strikes Gaza after rocket fire*

The rockets launched from Gaza were the first to target the Israeli city of Tel Aviv since 2014.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ All the innocent unarmed civilians peacefully demonstrating at the border with Gaza ]






Every Friday, the media reports on how many Gazans were killed and injured during the "peaceful protests" along the border.

It usually takes weeks for the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center to dig out the details and find out that, more often than not, those killed were associated with terror groups.

But sometimes the terror groups brag about it.

Islamic Jihad issued a "martyr certificate" for Jihad Mounir Khaled Hara, who they admit was a "mujahadeen" killed while engaging in jihadist activities during the Friday "protests."

(full article online)

Islamic Jihad admits one of its jihadists was killed in Friday "Return" riots ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Sixties Fan said:


> [ All the innocent unarmed civilians peacefully demonstrating at the border with Gaza ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every Friday, the media reports on how many Gazans were killed and injured during the "peaceful protests" along the border.
> 
> It usually takes weeks for the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center to dig out the details and find out that, more often than not, those killed were associated with terror groups.
> 
> But sometimes the terror groups brag about it.
> 
> Islamic Jihad issued a "martyr certificate" for Jihad Mounir Khaled Hara, who they admit was a "mujahadeen" killed while engaging in jihadist activities during the Friday "protests."
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Islamic Jihad admits one of its jihadists was killed in Friday "Return" riots ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



Too bad they weren’t all killed


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> They were unarmed, peaceful protesters you deliberately murdered in cold blood.



Unarmed, peaceful protesters?  Seriously?  Your hatred for Jews is so ridiculous and blind that you can't even just tell the truth.  Surely you must know the truth.  But you sit down at your computer and type out these words that you know to be a blatant lie.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> People using lethal projectiles, firebombs, IEDs, grenades, guns, knives, etc. are NOT non-combatants.
> 
> 
> 
> End the occupation and blockade and you will end the violence.  You started this, not them.
Click to expand...


No.  It doesn't work that way.  Israel has every right to safety and security.  Israel has an obligation to protect her citizens.  She is not going to stop defending herself while the violence continues.  What nation in their right mind would end a blockade and have open borders when there are 30,000 armed and violent people screaming "rip the hearts out of Jews" raging at the fence?

If Gaza wants peace, they must stop the violence.  If Gaza wants good relations with her neighbors, and trade and an economy, they must stop the violence.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, please?  Is that what you are going to fall back on?  Because I call out the people and government of Gaza for building tunnels instead of homes and schools and hospitals -- I am the evil one who views them as sub-human?  Give me a break.  Do better.
> 
> I believe in the rights of the people of Gaza to self-determination.  The route to that is peace with Israel.  Not rocket science. Just stop attacking Israel and start developing a state.
> 
> 
> 
> You can't stop something you didn't start.  Israel started this and Israel needs to end it, because sooner or later, that decision will no longer be Israel's to make.  Your (and Israel's) lack of empathy for these people is on display for the entire world to see.  You are losing support in every corner of the planet.  You are being viewed as a pariah nation.  And one day the world community is going to get sick of this bullshit and do something about it.  Just like it did to Germany 70 years ago.
> 
> American Jews don't want to be associated with your bullshit government.  And the progressives in my country now have control over 1/2 of the government.  We are going to get the other half next election.  Once that happens, you will not be under the US nuclear umbrella.  You will not be protected by our veto in the UNSC.  You will not be getting billions of dollars in aid.  What you might get, is payback for the USS Liberty.
Click to expand...


What stupidity!  The Liberty incident is older than I am!  Why was America's warship in a war zone?  Israel was desperately fighting for its very life, fighting 3 enemies at once, in a war that lasted a mere 6 days!  Do you know that in the Second Gulf War there were friendly-fire incidents practically every day?  In contrast, how many Americans have been killed in Arab terror attacks, more recently than 50 years ago, while there was no war going on, and in much greater numbers?


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> You are losing support in every corner of the planet.  You are being viewed as a pariah nation.  And one day the world community is going to get sick of this bullshit and do something about it.  Just like it did to Germany 70 years ago.



LOL.  Just the opposite.  Embassies moving to Jerusalem.  European nations refusing to vote for any Agenda Item Seven resolutions.  BDS being made illegal in the US and Europe.  Murdering terrorists having their visas revoked and not permitted to make speaking engagements.  UNWRA funds being cut off.  Sports Associations insisting on equal treatment for Israelis.  Arab nations and Israel forging alliances and playing nicely in the same sandbox.

The world is no longer being fooled by the false victimhood of the Arab Palestinians.  The Great March of Return is seen by everyone for what it is:  a violent temper tantrum by an unruly mob, led by Hamas, in order to get their own people killed and blame Israel for it.  No one is falling for it anymore.

Also, yes, I see your antisemitic association of Jews to Nazis.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Shusha said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are losing support in every corner of the planet.  You are being viewed as a pariah nation.  And one day the world community is going to get sick of this bullshit and do something about it.  Just like it did to Germany 70 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL.  Just the opposite.  Embassies moving to Jerusalem.  European nations refusing to vote for any Agenda Item Seven resolutions.  BDS being made illegal in the US and Europe.  Murdering terrorists having their visas revoked and not permitted to make speaking engagements.  UNWRA funds being cut off.  Sports Associations insisting on equal treatment for Israelis.  Arab nations and Israel forging alliances and playing nicely in the same sandbox.
> 
> The world is no longer being fooled by the false victimhood of the Arab Palestinians.  The Great March of Return is seen by everyone for what it is:  a violent temper tantrum by an unruly mob, led by Hamas, in order to get their own people killed and blame Israel for it.  No one is falling for it anymore.
> 
> Also, yes, I see your antisemitic association of Jews to Nazis.
Click to expand...


It is true that Billo Really is unabashedly anti-Jewish.  He has said that he doesn't give a shit about the 750,000 Arabs killed in Syria because they weren't killed by Jews.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are losing support in every corner of the planet.  You are being viewed as a pariah nation.  And one day the world community is going to get sick of this bullshit and do something about it.  Just like it did to Germany 70 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL.  Just the opposite.  Embassies moving to Jerusalem.  European nations refusing to vote for any Agenda Item Seven resolutions.  BDS being made illegal in the US and Europe.  Murdering terrorists having their visas revoked and not permitted to make speaking engagements.  UNWRA funds being cut off.  Sports Associations insisting on equal treatment for Israelis.  Arab nations and Israel forging alliances and playing nicely in the same sandbox.
> 
> The world is no longer being fooled by the false victimhood of the Arab Palestinians.  The Great March of Return is seen by everyone for what it is:  a violent temper tantrum by an unruly mob, led by Hamas, in order to get their own people killed and blame Israel for it.  No one is falling for it anymore.
> 
> Also, yes, I see your antisemitic association of Jews to Nazis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is true that Billo Really is unabashedly anti-Jewish.  He has said that he doesn't give a shit about the 750,000 Arabs killed in Syria because they weren't killed by Jews.
Click to expand...



The  says nothing about Christians who are massacred by Muslims


----------



## Sixties Fan

Nidal told his father not to participate in the march because he had family that needs him and he wanted him to be safe. But Nidal had his own children, a six month old boy and a seven year old girl. So why did this reportedly sensitive young man go to what he himself clearly considered  dangerous place when he had children of his own?

It turns out that Nidal had not seen his children for several months because of some sort of family dispute. 

Imagine how it would feel to be separated from your own newborn son!

Nidal was depressed and wanted to become a martyr so that he wouldn't feel like a loser. He seems to have deliberately provoked the IDF, perhaps by charging the fence.

He wanted to die a "hero."

The same article says that hi mother told people not to cry but to distribute candy to commemorate his death.

(full article online)

Did this Gazan die of "suicide by IDF?" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Released female prisoner, Wafa Al-Bis, attempted to commit suicide attack:* "My principle was to try and kill as many Jews as possible."
*Second released female prisoner:* "I can't live beside Israel. There are people who can live in peace beside Israel. I can't live in peace because it occupied my land."


















Another song broadcast yesterday on Hamas TV also calls for “Death to Israel.” 

















-------------

[  I, for one, prefer what Israelis sing ]


----------



## Sixties Fan

A Molotov Cocktail which was launched from Gaza in the afternoon landed in an agricultural field in the Eshkol region, causing a fire that destroyed a small area.

Security personnel at the time identified the balloon used to launch the forebomb and extinguished the fire the explosive caused.

At the same time it was reported that IDF forces had recently identified a number of Palestinian suspects crossing the perimeter fence from the southern Gaza Strip.

One of the suspects set off a camouflage network in an unmanned military post in the area of the fence and all the suspects returned to the Gaza Strip.

(full article online)

Terror incidents continue despite cease-fire reports


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel says that more than 2,000 violent incidents have emanated from the Gaza Strip since Hamas-orchestrated weekly border demonstrations erupted a year ago.

An Israeli statistical review published found that Palestinians launched 1,233 rockets from Gaza, hurled 94 explosive devices and 600 Molotov cocktails across the security fence and committed 152 acts of arson against Israeli forces.

The report says that rocket fire killed one person in Israel and injured 126. Palestinian attacks on the security fence killed one Israeli soldier and wounded 16.

(Full article online)

Israel: 2,000 violent attacks since start of Gaza protests last year


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> _Unarmed_, _peaceful_ _protestors_™️ who were armed and had announced their intention to “rip the hearts out” of the Jews.
> 
> Obviously, you’re clueless.


That's the big lie you want people to believe.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> The same tired slogans. Yet, somehow, Arabs-Moslems are slaughtering each other across the Islamic Middle East and there’s not a peep, not a whimper from you rabid Jew haters.


It's not a slogan, its an historical fact.

Why would I hate Jews?


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Unarmed_, _peaceful_ _protestors_™️ who were armed and had announced their intention to “rip the hearts out” of the Jews.
> 
> Obviously, you’re clueless.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the big lie you want people to believe.
Click to expand...


That’s the conspiracy theory you should peddle elsewhere.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> The advance of the great leftist / socialist army. It’s a wonder to behold.


It's much better than the totalitarian right.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The same tired slogans. Yet, somehow, Arabs-Moslems are slaughtering each other across the Islamic Middle East and there’s not a peep, not a whimper from you rabid Jew haters.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a slogan, its an historical fact.
> 
> Why would I hate Jews?
Click to expand...


You’re a bit light on facts. 

Why would you hate Jews?


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The advance of the great leftist / socialist army. It’s a wonder to behold.
> 
> 
> 
> It's much better than the totalitarian right.
Click to expand...


Discuss that with the like-minded folks at your madrassah.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Unarmed, peaceful protesters?  Seriously?  Your hatred for Jews is so ridiculous and blind that you can't even just tell the truth.  Surely you must know the truth.  But you sit down at your computer and type out these words that you know to be a blatant lie.


This is not a religious issue.  Why are you trying to make it one?


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> No.  It doesn't work that way.  Israel has every right to safety and security.  Israel has an obligation to protect her citizens.  She is not going to stop defending herself while the violence continues.  What nation in their right mind would end a blockade and have open borders when there are 30,000 armed and violent people screaming "rip the hearts out of Jews" raging at the fence?
> 
> If Gaza wants peace, they must stop the violence.  If Gaza wants good relations with her neighbors, and trade and an economy, they must stop the violence.


You started the violence. You need to stop it.  You cannot claim self defense when you are the aggressor.  Gazan territorial waters, is not an Israeli border.  Collectively punishing 1.5 million people who have done nothing wrong, is a war crime.  And if Israel really wanted peace, they wouldn't break all the ceasefires.


----------



## Billo_Really

ForeverYoung436 said:


> What stupidity!  The Liberty incident is older than I am!  Why was America's warship in a war zone?  Israel was desperately fighting for its very life, fighting 3 enemies at once, in a war that lasted a mere 6 days!  Do you know that in the Second Gulf War there were friendly-fire incidents practically every day?  In contrast, how many Americans have been killed in Arab terror attacks, more recently than 50 years ago, while there was no war going on, and in much greater numbers?


Why would a supposed US ally deliberately shoot up one of our ships killing 38 people?


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> LOL.  Just the opposite.  Embassies moving to Jerusalem.  European nations refusing to vote for any Agenda Item Seven resolutions.  BDS being made illegal in the US and Europe.  Murdering terrorists having their visas revoked and not permitted to make speaking engagements.  UNWRA funds being cut off.  Sports Associations insisting on equal treatment for Israelis.  Arab nations and Israel forging alliances and playing nicely in the same sandbox.
> 
> The world is no longer being fooled by the false victimhood of the Arab Palestinians.  The Great March of Return is seen by everyone for what it is:  a violent temper tantrum by an unruly mob, led by Hamas, in order to get their own people killed and blame Israel for it.  No one is falling for it anymore.
> 
> Also, yes, I see your antisemitic association of Jews to Nazis.


Only one embassy moved to Jerusalem.  Just one.

You can't defend Israeli violations of international law, so you try to silence the critics like BDS by "colluding" with my government.  Omar was right.

Israel has maintained a brutal and inhuman occupation for the last 70 years making the Palestinian's life a daily hell and you're saying that is "false victimhood"?  You are completely void of any humanity.

And finally, the fact that you keep trying to make this about Jews, shows you have no valid argument with which to rebut.


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.  It doesn't work that way.  Israel has every right to safety and security.  Israel has an obligation to protect her citizens.  She is not going to stop defending herself while the violence continues.  What nation in their right mind would end a blockade and have open borders when there are 30,000 armed and violent people screaming "rip the hearts out of Jews" raging at the fence?
> 
> If Gaza wants peace, they must stop the violence.  If Gaza wants good relations with her neighbors, and trade and an economy, they must stop the violence.
> 
> 
> 
> You started the violence. You need to stop it.  You cannot claim self defense when you are the aggressor.  Gazan territorial waters, is not an Israeli border.  Collectively punishing 1.5 million people who have done nothing wrong, is a war crime.  And if Israel really wanted peace, they wouldn't break all the ceasefires.
Click to expand...

Maintaining your borders is not collective punishment.
Protecting yourself from border crossers, rock throwers, missile firers, and balloon launchers is not collective punishment.


----------



## Billo_Really

ForeverYoung436 said:


> It is true that Billo Really is unabashedly anti-Jewish.  He has said that he doesn't give a shit about the 750,000 Arabs killed in Syria because they weren't killed by Jews.


And you're just making shit up.

Why would I hate Jews?


----------



## Billo_Really

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> The  says nothing about Christians who are massacred by Muslims


Because that is off topic.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> That’s the conspiracy theory you should peddle elsewhere.


It's not a conspiracy when that is the conclusion of a UN report.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> You’re a bit light on facts.
> 
> Why would you hate Jews?


It's no secret Zionists migrated into the area at the turn of the last century.

Why can't you answer the fucking question?


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Discuss that with the like-minded folks at your madrassah.


That's mean.


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> Maintaining your borders is not collective punishment.
> Protecting yourself from border crossers, rock throwers, missile firers, and balloon launchers is not collective punishment.


International waters is not an Israeli border.  Gazan airspace is not an Israeli border.  Imprisoning a population of 1.5 million people just because you didn't like the results of an election, is collective punishment.  And THAT, is a war crime.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maintaining your borders is not collective punishment.
> Protecting yourself from border crossers, rock throwers, missile firers, and balloon launchers is not collective punishment.
> 
> 
> 
> International waters is not an Israeli border.  Gazan airspace is not an Israeli border.  Imprisoning a population of 1.5 million people just because you didn't like the results of an election, is collective punishment.  And THAT, is a war crime.
Click to expand...




Billo_Really said:


> Imprisoning a population of 1.5 million people just because you didn't like the results of an election,


Like the Palestinians like the assholes that the Israelis elect.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You’re a bit light on facts.
> 
> Why would you hate Jews?
> 
> 
> 
> It's no secret Zionists migrated into the area at the turn of the last century.
> 
> Why can't you answer the fucking question?
Click to expand...


Its no secret that Arabs-Moslems migrated to the area. 

As usual, you're pointless.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maintaining your borders is not collective punishment.
> Protecting yourself from border crossers, rock throwers, missile firers, and balloon launchers is not collective punishment.
> 
> 
> 
> International waters is not an Israeli border.  Gazan airspace is not an Israeli border.  Imprisoning a population of 1.5 million people just because you didn't like the results of an election, is collective punishment.  And THAT, is a war crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imprisoning a population of 1.5 million people just because you didn't like the results of an election,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the Palestinians like the assholes that the Israelis elect.
Click to expand...


You're angry about the current islamic dictators? The next islamic dictators will be no different than the current ones. 

Indeed.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maintaining your borders is not collective punishment.
> Protecting yourself from border crossers, rock throwers, missile firers, and balloon launchers is not collective punishment.
> 
> 
> 
> International waters is not an Israeli border.  Gazan airspace is not an Israeli border.  Imprisoning a population of 1.5 million people just because you didn't like the results of an election, is collective punishment.  And THAT, is a war crime.
Click to expand...


Islamic terrorists in the neighborhood tend to lower property values for everyone else.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Billo_Really said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What stupidity!  The Liberty incident is older than I am!  Why was America's warship in a war zone?  Israel was desperately fighting for its very life, fighting 3 enemies at once, in a war that lasted a mere 6 days!  Do you know that in the Second Gulf War there were friendly-fire incidents practically every day?  In contrast, how many Americans have been killed in Arab terror attacks, more recently than 50 years ago, while there was no war going on, and in much greater numbers?
> 
> 
> 
> Why would a supposed US ally deliberately shoot up one of our ships killing 38 people?
Click to expand...


Not deliberate.  Friendly fire.  And you're right--why would they?  There's no motive.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What stupidity!  The Liberty incident is older than I am!  Why was America's warship in a war zone?  Israel was desperately fighting for its very life, fighting 3 enemies at once, in a war that lasted a mere 6 days!  Do you know that in the Second Gulf War there were friendly-fire incidents practically every day?  In contrast, how many Americans have been killed in Arab terror attacks, more recently than 50 years ago, while there was no war going on, and in much greater numbers?
> 
> 
> 
> Why would a supposed US ally deliberately shoot up one of our ships killing 38 people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not deliberate.  Friendly fire.  And you're right--why would they?  There's no motive.
Click to expand...


You and Tinmore have never been to Israel.  They worship America and its culture over there.  That's how I know they didn't do it deliberately.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Billo_Really said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The  says nothing about Christians who are massacred by Muslims
> 
> 
> 
> Because that is off topic.
Click to expand...


Typical double standard of an . FUCK YOU !!


----------



## Sixties Fan

A wheat field in the Eshkol region of southern Israel that was scorched by a fire caused by a balloon-borne incendiary device launched from the Gaza Strip on March 28, 2019. (Eshkol Regional Council)

Throughout the day, several incendiary devices attached to balloons landed in the Eshkol and Sha’ar Hanegev regions of southern Israel.

In most cases, police sappers were called to defuse and remove the objects before they could spark fires.

But one of the balloon-borne arson devices apparently caused a blaze in a wheat field belonging to Kibbutz Ein Hashlosha in the Eshkol region.

The fire did not cause damage to the crops, an Eshkol spokesperson said, as the grain had been harvested early this year, specifically to prevent it being burned by incendiary devices from the Gaza Strip.

(full article online)

IDF strikes Gazans launching airborne arson devices into Israel, injuring 3


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unarmed, peaceful protesters?  Seriously?  Your hatred for Jews is so ridiculous and blind that you can't even just tell the truth.  Surely you must know the truth.  But you sit down at your computer and type out these words that you know to be a blatant lie.
> 
> 
> 
> This is not a religious issue.  Why are you trying to make it one?
Click to expand...




> Israel has maintained a brutal and inhuman occupation for the last 70 years making the Palestinian's life a daily hell and you're saying that is "false victimhood"?





My comment has nothing to do with religion.  You are trying to deflect, as usual.

The point of my post, as it always is with you, is that you deliberately ignore and blatantly lie about the violence against Jews (which you label "Zionists") which is constantly vomiting out of Gaza and the "West Bank". 

You are forced by your own internal Jew-hatred to believe that only the Jews are behaving badly and are "evil" and that Arab Palestinians must therefore by innocent victims and only "unarmed and peaceful".  Your bias is so glaring and ridiculous, you don't see rockets (smuggled in through Gaza waters), grenades, guns, IEDs, firebombs, tunnels, exploding people, knives and cars used as weapons AS VIOLENT acts against a sovereign nation which is absolutely obligated to protect her citizens.  

You foolishly demand that Arabs have "rights" to both sides of the coin:  that Arab Palestinians are non-violent and peaceful and innocent victims, while also insisting that they have every right to arm themselves and attack Israel AND AT THE SAME TIME demand that Israel have "rights" to neither side of the coin:  that Israeli Jews are exclusively violent and evil, while also insisting they have no rights to defend themselves.  

Gaza is easy to solve.  Israel abandoned Gaza to the Arabs.  Unilaterally and completely.  The border is clear and without dispute.  There are water and electricity and trade agreements in place.  There is nothing left to argue over.  There is no more reason for any sort of conflict between Gaza and Israel.  There is an active, effective government in place in Gaza.  And scads of resources both internally and through international aide.  The people and the government of Gaza can choose to build a State or they can choose to continue to be violent.  

There have been 2000 violent, murderous attacks on Israel from Gaza.  The idea that Israel has no right to defend herself from those attacks is abhorrent and disgusting.  Of course, she does.  She is obligated to protect her citizens from harm.  

The falsehood that if Israel just had open borders with Gaza and permitted Gazans to fish, that the violence would cease can only be held by those who are so blind and deliberately ignorant that they can only imagine Arab Gazans as unarmed and peaceful, in absolute rejection of reality.  And can only be held by those who are so blind with Jew-hate that they can only imagine Jews (sorry, Zionists the fake Jews) to be evil.  

The Great March of Return, by its very name, is not a call to end the blockade.  Its a demand to flood Israel with Arabs and restore exclusive Arab sovereignty to all of the territory.  Using violence to "rip the hearts out of Jews".  

Israel absolutely must not allow that to happen.  And it won't.


----------



## Hollie

I'm thinking the important element for Hamas is to sacrifice more of the vacant minded gee-had wannabes for propaganda purposes.




*Hamas says no ceasefire deal until after massive weekend protests*

Hamas says no ceasefire deal until after massive weekend protests

*As Egypt scrambles to cement a truce, Netanyahu says he ordered the army to ready for an ‘extensive campaign’ in Gaza*
By TOI STAFF and AGENCIESToday, 4:48 pm  1


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I'm thinking the important element for Hamas is to sacrifice more of the vacant minded gee-had wannabes for propaganda purposes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas says no ceasefire deal until after massive weekend protests*
> 
> Hamas says no ceasefire deal until after massive weekend protests
> 
> *As Egypt scrambles to cement a truce, Netanyahu says he ordered the army to ready for an ‘extensive campaign’ in Gaza*
> By TOI STAFF and AGENCIESToday, 4:48 pm  1


It is only going to be a one sided ceasefire anyway.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm thinking the important element for Hamas is to sacrifice more of the vacant minded gee-had wannabes for propaganda purposes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas says no ceasefire deal until after massive weekend protests*
> 
> Hamas says no ceasefire deal until after massive weekend protests
> 
> *As Egypt scrambles to cement a truce, Netanyahu says he ordered the army to ready for an ‘extensive campaign’ in Gaza*
> By TOI STAFF and AGENCIESToday, 4:48 pm  1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is only going to be a one sided ceasefire anyway.
Click to expand...


That's true!  Israel will honor it while the thugs of Hamas will continue to throw rockets.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm thinking the important element for Hamas is to sacrifice more of the vacant minded gee-had wannabes for propaganda purposes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas says no ceasefire deal until after massive weekend protests*
> 
> Hamas says no ceasefire deal until after massive weekend protests
> 
> *As Egypt scrambles to cement a truce, Netanyahu says he ordered the army to ready for an ‘extensive campaign’ in Gaza*
> By TOI STAFF and AGENCIESToday, 4:48 pm  1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is only going to be a one sided ceasefire anyway.
Click to expand...


It will. The Iranian Mullocrats will order their flunkies in Hamas or islamic gee-had to fire a missile and Israel will deliver another islamic terrorist beat-down. 

Haniyeh can then declare a victory.... when he comes out of hiding.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> It is only going to be a one sided ceasefire anyway.



Riiiiiight.  Because Israel started the "Great March of Return".  Please.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


>



What's the slogan we hear from an identifiable few? 

_"Peaceful, unarmed protesters"_


Three part harmony and pick up the chorus when it comes around.... here we go.....

*Row, Row Row Your Boat....*


----------



## Billo_Really

P F Tinmore said:


> Like the Palestinians like the assholes that the Israelis elect.


And Netanfuckyou is one major asshole!


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Its no secret that Arabs-Moslems migrated to the area.
> 
> As usual, you're pointless.


If that was true, then who the fuck was Lord Balfour referring to when he said in the Balfour Declaration, 

_"...it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of *existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine*."_​It wasn't the Dutch!


----------



## Billo_Really

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Not deliberate.  Friendly fire.  And you're right--why would they?  There's no motive.


It was deliberate.  There is an audio of one of the Israeli fighter pilots telling his command it was an American ship.


----------



## Billo_Really

ForeverYoung436 said:


> You and Tinmore have never been to Israel.  They worship America and its culture over there.  That's how I know they didn't do it deliberately.


That's because it wants that $3 billion in aid.


----------



## Billo_Really

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Typical double standard of an . FUCK YOU !!


No.  It's an attempt to hijack the thread and change the subject.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> My comment has nothing to do with religion.  You are trying to deflect, as usual.
> 
> The point of my post, as it always is with you, is that you deliberately ignore and blatantly lie about the violence against Jews (which you label "Zionists") which is constantly vomiting out of Gaza and the "West Bank".


Zionism is not Judaism.  One is a religion, the other is a political movement.  Criticizing Israeli foreign policy has nothing to do with antisemitism.  Not all Israelis are Jewish.  Not all Jews support Israel.  And the reason you keep pushing this bullshit mantra, is because you have no valid argument with which to defend Israeli atrocities against the Palestinian's.



Shusha said:


> You are forced by your own internal Jew-hatred to believe that only the Jews are behaving badly and are "evil" and that Arab Palestinians must therefore by innocent victims and only "unarmed and peaceful".  Your bias is so glaring and ridiculous, you don't see rockets (smuggled in through Gaza waters), grenades, guns, IEDs, firebombs, tunnels, exploding people, knives and cars used as weapons AS VIOLENT acts against a sovereign nation which is absolutely obligated to protect her citizens.


I haven't said anything about Jews and you still can't tell me why I would hate them?



Shusha said:


> You foolishly demand that Arabs have "rights" to both sides of the coin:  that Arab Palestinians are non-violent and peaceful and innocent victims, while also insisting that they have every right to arm themselves and attack Israel AND AT THE SAME TIME demand that Israel have "rights" to neither side of the coin:  that Israeli Jews are exclusively violent and evil, while also insisting they have no rights to defend themselves.


Sorry, I didn't say that either.  You're more interested in making up the opposing argument than you are addressing mine.



Shusha said:


> Gaza is easy to solve.  Israel abandoned Gaza to the Arabs.  Unilaterally and completely.  The border is clear and without dispute.  There are water and electricity and trade agreements in place.  There is nothing left to argue over.  There is no more reason for any sort of conflict between Gaza and Israel.  There is an active, effective government in place in Gaza.  And scads of resources both internally and through international aide.  The people and the government of Gaza can choose to build a State or they can choose to continue to be violent.


If that was true, why do you shoot at their fishermen?  Why do you make up this bullshit lie about smuggling?  You can't even bring in humanitarian aid without the IDF attacking (and boarding) the ship.  There is no smuggling going on, just fishing.  Fishing you have no right to stop.



Shusha said:


> There have been 2000 violent, murderous attacks on Israel from Gaza.  The idea that Israel has no right to defend herself from those attacks is abhorrent and disgusting.  Of course, she does.  She is obligated to protect her citizens from harm.


Since 2001, over 10,000 rockets have been launched, only 28 people killed.  That's not a threat, that is a nuisance.  And those rockets didn't start until 34 years after the occupation began.  So yeah, you started it.



Shusha said:


> The falsehood that if Israel just had open borders with Gaza and permitted Gazans to fish, that the violence would cease can only be held by those who are so blind and deliberately ignorant that they can only imagine Arab Gazans as unarmed and peaceful, in absolute rejection of reality.  And can only be held by those who are so blind with Jew-hate that they can only imagine Jews (sorry, Zionists the fake Jews) to be evil.


Gazan's fishing, is none of Israel's god-damn business!



Shusha said:


> The Great March of Return, by its very name, is not a call to end the blockade.  Its a demand to flood Israel with Arabs and restore exclusive Arab sovereignty to all of the territory.  Using violence to "rip the hearts out of Jews".
> 
> Israel absolutely must not allow that to happen.  And it won't.


If you can come back after 3000 years, they can come back after 70.


----------



## Mindful

*Attacks on Israel Condemned*

ADL condemned rocket attacks from Gaza that struck Israeli civilian centers. ADL also condemned the terrorist attack on a soldier and civilians near Ariel, killing Sgt. Gal Keidan and Rabbi Ahiad Ettinger.


----------



## Shusha

Okay, let's dissect this piece by piece:

Piece one:



Billo_Really said:


> Zionism is not Judaism.  One is a religion, the other is a political movement.  Criticizing Israeli foreign policy has nothing to do with antisemitism.  Not all Israelis are Jewish.  Not all Jews support Israel.



1.  Zionism is the expression of the Jewish peoples right to self-determination, sovereignty, and a homeland in, you know, their actual homeland.  Sure.  You want to call it a political movement, its a political movement.  But it is a political movement which is based on a) self-determination of a distinct peoples; b) liberation of peoples and sovereignty; c) its ACTUAL EXISTENCE.  In exactly the same way, the Arab Palestinian people (as distinct from the Jordanian people who already have these things) have a political movement which is based on a) self-determination of a distinct peoples; b) liberation of peoples and sovereignty; c) a WISH to have actual existence.  You can't ask for the second without also granting the first.  Unless you have special rules for Israel.

2.  Thank you for admitting that Israel's actions with respect to Gaza are FOREIGN policy.  I agree.  The only policy which you seem to criticizing in this latest exchange between us is Israel's defending herself and her citizens against FOREIGN hostility and violence.  Rejecting the idea that Israel has a right to defend herself from violence is. well, let's say ... problematic.  Do you mean to say that Israel should be prevented from protecting her citizens from violence?  Or that she should just permit it?  Are you out of your mind?

3.  True.  Not all Israelis are Jewish.  Just like all Gazans aren't Arabs.  Oh....wait.

4.  All PEOPLE, Jewish or not, support Israel's existence.  Even you support Israel's existence, don't you?  (As opposed to Tinmore and others).  Not all people support Israel's government policies.  I don't even support all of Israel's government policies.  The policy of defending herself from violent, hostile people trying to cross the border and murder her citizens, though, I absolutely support.  All decent people would.

Piece two:



> If that was true, why do you shoot at their fishermen?  Why do you make up this bullshit lie about smuggling?   ... Since 2001, over 10,000 rockets have been launched, only 28 people killed. ...That's not a threat, that is a nuisance.



1.  Ah, so we agree that there have been rockets launched from Gaza into Israel.  (The number is closer to 20,000, btw).  How do you think the people and government of Gaza obtained those rockets?  I can think of only four ways:  they were smuggled in through Israel; they were smuggled in through Egypt; they were smuggled in by sea; they were built on site from material imported. Where else would they get the rockets from?  Do you disagree?

2.  The POINT of the border controls and the sea blockade are to prevent Gaza's people and government from importing weapons or materials for weapons.  Do you disagree?

3.  What is the difference between a "threat" and a "nuisance"?.  How many people does Israel have to allow to be murdered before it becomes a threat?  How many have to die in Gaza before you consider Israel a threat?  If your criteria is that "nuisances" do not warrant lethal force, even if peoples lives are taken, then how can the blockade and normal international border patrols, which have caused no deaths, be considered a cause for "self-defense" by the Gazans?

Piece three:



> And those rockets didn't start until 34 years after the occupation began.


Those rockets started immediately after Israel ceded the territory to the Arab Gazans and ceased to have control over the territory.  Indeed, self-determination and sovereignty was the CONDITION which permitted the foreign entity to begin attacking Israel.



> If you can come back after 3000 years, they can come back after 70.


We agree on that point.  The devil is in the details.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Okay, let's dissect this piece by piece:
> 
> Piece one:
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zionism is not Judaism.  One is a religion, the other is a political movement.  Criticizing Israeli foreign policy has nothing to do with antisemitism.  Not all Israelis are Jewish.  Not all Jews support Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  Zionism is the expression of the Jewish peoples right to self-determination, sovereignty, and a homeland in, you know, their actual homeland.  Sure.  You want to call it a political movement, its a political movement.  But it is a political movement which is based on a) self-determination of a distinct peoples; b) liberation of peoples and sovereignty; c) its ACTUAL EXISTENCE.  In exactly the same way, the Arab Palestinian people (as distinct from the Jordanian people who already have these things) have a political movement which is based on a) self-determination of a distinct peoples; b) liberation of peoples and sovereignty; c) a WISH to have actual existence.  You can't ask for the second without also granting the first.  Unless you have special rules for Israel.
> 
> 2.  Thank you for admitting that Israel's actions with respect to Gaza are FOREIGN policy.  I agree.  The only policy which you seem to criticizing in this latest exchange between us is Israel's defending herself and her citizens against FOREIGN hostility and violence.  Rejecting the idea that Israel has a right to defend herself from violence is. well, let's say ... problematic.  Do you mean to say that Israel should be prevented from protecting her citizens from violence?  Or that she should just permit it?  Are you out of your mind?
> 
> 3.  True.  Not all Israelis are Jewish.  Just like all Gazans aren't Arabs.  Oh....wait.
> 
> 4.  All PEOPLE, Jewish or not, support Israel's existence.  Even you support Israel's existence, don't you?  (As opposed to Tinmore and others).  Not all people support Israel's government policies.  I don't even support all of Israel's government policies.  The policy of defending herself from violent, hostile people trying to cross the border and murder her citizens, though, I absolutely support.  All decent people would.
> 
> Piece two:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that was true, why do you shoot at their fishermen?  Why do you make up this bullshit lie about smuggling?   ... Since 2001, over 10,000 rockets have been launched, only 28 people killed. ...That's not a threat, that is a nuisance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1.  Ah, so we agree that there have been rockets launched from Gaza into Israel.  (The number is closer to 20,000, btw).  How do you think the people and government of Gaza obtained those rockets?  I can think of only four ways:  they were smuggled in through Israel; they were smuggled in through Egypt; they were smuggled in by sea; they were built on site from material imported. Where else would they get the rockets from?  Do you disagree?
> 
> 2.  The POINT of the border controls and the sea blockade are to prevent Gaza's people and government from importing weapons or materials for weapons.  Do you disagree?
> 
> 3.  What is the difference between a "threat" and a "nuisance"?.  How many people does Israel have to allow to be murdered before it becomes a threat?  How many have to die in Gaza before you consider Israel a threat?  If your criteria is that "nuisances" do not warrant lethal force, even if peoples lives are taken, then how can the blockade and normal international border patrols, which have caused no deaths, be considered a cause for "self-defense" by the Gazans?
> 
> Piece three:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And those rockets didn't start until 34 years after the occupation began.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those rockets started immediately after Israel ceded the territory to the Arab Gazans and ceased to have control over the territory.  Indeed, self-determination and sovereignty was the CONDITION which permitted the foreign entity to begin attacking Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you can come back after 3000 years, they can come back after 70.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We agree on that point.  The devil is in the details.
Click to expand...

So says Israel.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Okay, let's dissect this piece by piece:


You really don't want to go down this road.  For one thing, your mind is made up.  You refuse to look at this objectively.  Or humanely. Nothing I say, is going to bring humanity back to your soul.  

However, since you asked, I will respond...



Shusha said:


> Piece one:
> 
> 1.  Zionism is the expression of the Jewish peoples right to self-determination, sovereignty, and a homeland in, you know, their actual homeland.  Sure.  You want to call it a political movement, its a political movement.  But it is a political movement which is based on a) self-determination of a distinct peoples; b) liberation of peoples and sovereignty; c) its ACTUAL EXISTENCE.  In exactly the same way, the Arab Palestinian people (as distinct from the Jordanian people who already have these things) have a political movement which is based on a) self-determination of a distinct peoples; b) liberation of peoples and sovereignty; c) a WISH to have actual existence.  You can't ask for the second without also granting the first.  Unless you have special rules for Israel.


Zionism is the political movement with the goal of creating the state of Israel.  Judaism is a religion that has, among other things, the Three Oaths as one of its core beliefs.  Zionism is in violation of these core beliefs, therefore, you cannot equate Zionism with Judaism.  They are two completely different things.  Just ask your own orthodox Jews.



Shusha said:


> 2.  Thank you for admitting that Israel's actions with respect to Gaza are FOREIGN policy.  I agree.  The only policy which you seem to criticizing in this latest exchange between us is Israel's defending herself and her citizens against FOREIGN hostility and violence.  Rejecting the idea that Israel has a right to defend herself from violence is. well, let's say ... problematic.  Do you mean to say that Israel should be prevented from protecting her citizens from violence?  Or that she should just permit it?  Are you out of your mind?


You cannot defend yourself when you are the one causing the violence.  Can an assassin claim self defense if after breaking into the home of his target and the home owner puts up more resistance than anticipated?



Shusha said:


> 3.  True.  Not all Israelis are Jewish.  Just like all Gazans aren't Arabs.  Oh....wait.


Then stop combining the two.



Shusha said:


> 4.  All PEOPLE, Jewish or not, support Israel's existence.  Even you support Israel's existence, don't you?  (As opposed to Tinmore and others).  Not all people support Israel's government policies.  I don't even support all of Israel's government policies.  The policy of defending herself from violent, hostile people trying to cross the border and murder her citizens, though, I absolutely support.  All decent people would.


I don't support Israel's existence.  I think that point is moot and a really stupid issue to keep on arguing about.  Israel exists.  It's not going to not exist.  Whether or not someone recognizes this, has nothing to do with anything. I will say this, you don't deserve a country.



Shusha said:


> Piece two:
> 
> 1.  Ah, so we agree that there have been rockets launched from Gaza into Israel.  (The number is closer to 20,000, btw).  How do you think the people and government of Gaza obtained those rockets?  I can think of only four ways:  they were smuggled in through Israel; they were smuggled in through Egypt; they were smuggled in by sea; they were built on site from material imported. Where else would they get the rockets from?  Do you disagree?


I don't give a shit how they got them.  They have every right in the world to defend themselves from foreign aggression.  Israel is the aggressor.  Not the defender.

Okay, so the number is over 20,000.  So what.  How many missiles and drone strikes have you launched into Gaza?  You've killed thousands of them.  They only killed 28 of you.



Shusha said:


> 2.  The POINT of the border controls and the sea blockade are to prevent Gaza's people and government from importing weapons or materials for weapons.  Do you disagree?


You just can't stop peddling that bullshit. The blockade is because Israel didn't like the result of an election, but you make up this story to make it more palatable.



Shusha said:


> 3.  What is the difference between a "threat" and a "nuisance"?.  How many people does Israel have to allow to be murdered before it becomes a threat?  How many have to die in Gaza before you consider Israel a threat?  If your criteria is that "nuisances" do not warrant lethal force, even if peoples lives are taken, then how can the blockade and normal international border patrols, which have caused no deaths, be considered a cause for "self-defense" by the Gazans?


Now you're just speaking gibberish.



Shusha said:


> Piece three:
> 
> Those rockets started immediately after Israel ceded the territory to the Arab Gazans and ceased to have control over the territory.  Indeed, self-determination and sovereignty was the CONDITION which permitted the foreign entity to begin attacking Israel.


If Israel doesn't have control over that area, then why can't they leave?  Why can't they fish and farm without getting shot at?  Why can't a Gazan have a cigarette without being shot in the back of the head by an Israeli sniper?

Don't give me this crap about "ceased to have control"!



Shusha said:


> We agree on that point.  The devil is in the details.


And you're the devil.  Because God wouldn't say the shit you say.


----------



## Linkiloo

Hollie said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's the slogan we hear from an identifiable few?
> 
> _"Peaceful, unarmed protesters"_
> 
> 
> Three part harmony and pick up the chorus when it comes around.... here we go.....
> 
> *Row, Row Row Your Boat....*
Click to expand...

The UN actually referred to it as poetry readings...lol


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Billo_Really said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Typical double standard of an . FUCK YOU !!
> 
> 
> 
> No.  It's an attempt to hijack the thread and change the subject.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not hijacking the thread. It is possible that more then one thing can be discussed.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Mindful

Once again, explosives attached to balloons were sent from Gaza towards Israel. The people of south Israel are under attack everyday.This has to stop!

The world must hear Israel’s pain — and break its silence. Go to IsraelIsUnderAttack.com and demand an end to Palestinian terror.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Here is what they have accomplished so far:

– 2,000 violent incidents
– 694 explosives devices
– 9,000 acres of burned
– 1,323 rockets fired into Israel

To “celebrate” their one year anniversary this weekend, Hamas is calling for a “Million Man March” to Israel’s border. 

The Israelis have been preparing to greet their neighbors at the border, but not with candies and flowers for Shabbat. We hope and pray for quiet and that our soldiers are kept safe.

(vide video online)

WATCH: 60-Second Tour of Hamas’ Great ‘March of Return’!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Typical double standard of an . FUCK YOU !!
> 
> 
> 
> No.  It's an attempt to hijack the thread and change the subject.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not Hijacking the thread. It’s possible that more then one subject can be discussed. Fuck You !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

.


----------



## Death Angel

Mindful said:


> The world must hear Israel’s pain — and break its silence. Go to IsraelIsUnderAttack.com and demand an end to Palestinian terror.


The "world" doesn't care. They think like a tard. Israel hate is all that matters.


----------



## Death Angel

Sixties Fan said:


> To “celebrate” their one year anniversary this weekend, Hamas is calling for a “Million Man March” to Israel’s border


Without PC, Israel could end this SO DAMN QUICKLY.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Yehudit ben Chair, also of Sderot, stated simply, “We are talking about post-traumatic syndrome.”

Another Sderot resident, Orna Cohen, said, “To be in constant tension and think, ‘Maybe there’s going to be an attack,’ it’s so damaging. It’s damaging to the children and to their daily lives and we take a big toll for that.”

Of mothers with children in Gaza, Cohen said, “We probably have a lot more in common than it looks like, because I’m sure she really cares about her kids and her grandkids.”

Karen Halperin of Kibbutz Bror Hayil has similar feelings, saying, “When I am running to the bomb shelter with my kids in the middle of the night, I am really thinking about the same mother in Gaza, on the other side of the fence, that her child is also scared at night.”

“We are trying to raise a generation that won’t hate,” she said. “But you can’t love someone who is hurting you.”

View the full video below:



(full article online)

Mothers From Southern Israel Tell Stories of Life Under Rocket Fire


----------



## The Original Tree

Death Angel said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> To “celebrate” their one year anniversary this weekend, Hamas is calling for a “Million Man March” to Israel’s border
> 
> 
> 
> Without PC, Israel could end this SO DAMN QUICKLY.
Click to expand...

*God will End it, when Yahshua comes.  It's not like those who hate Israel haven't been given a chance.  Israel will unfortunately endure a great deal of suffering until then, but in The End, Divine Justice Prevails, and Israel will prevail.*


----------



## Hollie

While Haniyeh maybe playing the media and trying to make some propaganda points, I suspect Hamas will have to do the bidding of the Iranian masters. I would bet that it is the Iranian Mullocrats who are going to make any decision about the border gee-had and Hamas will be forced to obey their masters in Tehran. 
*


Coming Hours Will Decide Hamas' Next Steps, Political Chief Says Ahead of Gaza March Anniversary 

Coming hours will decide Hamas' next steps, political chief says ahead of Gaza march anniversary
*
Ismail Haniyeh says Hamas stands at 'important crossroad' as Egyptian-mediated talks continue and Israel sends additional troops to Gaza fence.


----------



## Death Angel

The Original Tree said:


> God will End it, when Yahshua comes. It's not like those who hate Israel haven't been given a chance.


Afree. There are some very clear prophecies directed at the rabid Arab world. That best get their hate under control and learn to live at peace with Israel.


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Here is what they have accomplished so far:
> 
> – 2,000 violent incidents
> – 694 explosives devices
> – 9,000 acres of burned
> – 1,323 rockets fired into Israel
> 
> To “celebrate” their one year anniversary this weekend, Hamas is calling for a “Million Man March” to Israel’s border.
> 
> The Israelis have been preparing to greet their neighbors at the border, but not with candies and flowers for Shabbat. We hope and pray for quiet and that our soldiers are kept safe.
> 
> (vide video online)
> 
> WATCH: 60-Second Tour of Hamas’ Great ‘March of Return’!




And how many "returns" did they get for that?


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> I will say this, you don't deserve a country.
> 
> And you're the devil.  Because God wouldn't say the shit you say.



Ah, yes.  Scratch anyone with an irrational understanding of the Gaza conflict and you will inevitably find something like this.

Tell me, what are your objective criteria for "deserving a country", that you would apply universally to not only the Jewish people, but everyone else.  

I'm the devil?  How horribly creative of you, taking a standard canard that goes back a couple thousand years.  I haven't been called that in days.  

The shit I say?  That Gazans should build a State and an economy instead of trying to murder Jews?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas plans to use children as human shields during mass border demonstrations planned for Saturday, Israel’s UN envoy warned on Friday.

In a letter to the UN Security Council and Secretary-General Antonio Guterres, Israeli Ambassador Danny Danon wrote, “Hamas has cancelled school on 30 March so that children will be free to attend the riots. As always, Hamas will exploit these children as human shields and compensate the rioters and their families, should they suffer injuries.”

Danon continued, “There can be no doubt that in the upcoming riots, Hamas will seek to fulfill the words of Yahya Sinwar, its leader in Gaza: ‘We will take down the border and tear out their hearts from their bodies.’”

Meanwhile, seven Palestinians were reportedly wounded on the Gaza border on Friday.

The IDF said around 800 Palestinians had demonstrated along the frontier and that soldiers had used riot-dispersal means against them.

Saturday will mark the one-year anniversary of the start of weekly border protests that have often turned violent. Around 200 Palestinians — many of whom have been identified as members of terror groups — have been killed in the unrest.

(full article online)

Hamas Plans to Use Children as Human Shields in Mass Border Riots This Weekend, Israeli UN Envoy Warns


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Ah, yes.  Scratch anyone with an irrational understanding of the Gaza conflict and you will inevitably find something like this.
> 
> Tell me, what are your objective criteria for "deserving a country", that you would apply universally to not only the Jewish people, but everyone else.
> 
> I'm the devil?  How horribly creative of you, taking a standard canard that goes back a couple thousand years.  I haven't been called that in days.
> 
> The shit I say?  That Gazans should build a State and an economy instead of trying to murder Jews?


They can't build an economy because Israel won't let them.  

I couldn't help notice you avoided all the other points I made.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> They can't build an economy because Israel won't let them.
> 
> I couldn't help notice you avoided all the other points I made.



Your points are irrational.  That a sovereign, existing nation shouldn't be permitted to defend itself against 20,000 indiscriminate rockets fired at its citizens?  

That no weapons are being smuggled into Gaza?  Or built there?  That Gazans are just poor unarmed, peaceful protesters who want to develop an economy?

If you can't see the irrationality inherent in 20,000 rockets and unarmed, peaceful protesters....


----------



## The Original Tree

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, yes.  Scratch anyone with an irrational understanding of the Gaza conflict and you will inevitably find something like this.
> 
> Tell me, what are your objective criteria for "deserving a country", that you would apply universally to not only the Jewish people, but everyone else.
> 
> I'm the devil?  How horribly creative of you, taking a standard canard that goes back a couple thousand years.  I haven't been called that in days.
> 
> The shit I say?  That Gazans should build a State and an economy instead of trying to murder Jews?
> 
> 
> 
> They can't build an economy because Israel won't let them.
> 
> I couldn't help notice you avoided all the other points I made.
Click to expand...

*Israel built them an Economy and then The PLO and HAMAS asked Israel to leave, and let Palestine govern itself.  The Result was that they trashed the roads Israel Built, Trashed The Schools Israel Built, Destroyed The Electircal Grid Israel Built, Trashed The Sanitary Systems and Water Purification Systems Israel Built, and Destroyed The Hospitals and Government Buildings Israel Built.  

Now The Palestinians are begging Israel to come back, but HAMAS and THE PLO are beating and killing their own people who are protesting against THEM.

Why do you hate Jews?*


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really 

Seriously, just what do you think would happen if Gaza just stopped attacking Israel?  Completely.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Your points are irrational.  That a sovereign, existing nation shouldn't be permitted to defend itself against 20,000 indiscriminate rockets fired at its citizens?
> 
> That no weapons are being smuggled into Gaza?  Or built there?  That Gazans are just poor unarmed, peaceful protesters who want to develop an economy?
> 
> If you can't see the irrationality inherent in 20,000 rockets and unarmed, peaceful protesters....


You are not defending yourself if you are the one who started the violence.  So fuck you!  You're talking bullshit!  End the occupation and you won't get rockets, asshole.

No weapons are being smuggled into Gaza by people fishing.  You are shooting at people fishing, not smuggling.  Fishing.  You are sick in the head if you think this is okay.  Who the fuck shoots at someone fishing?  I'll tell you who, someone who is pure evil.


----------



## The Original Tree

*


Billo_Really said:





Shusha said:



			Your points are irrational.  That a sovereign, existing nation shouldn't be permitted to defend itself against 20,000 indiscriminate rockets fired at its citizens? 

That no weapons are being smuggled into Gaza?  Or built there?  That Gazans are just poor unarmed, peaceful protesters who want to develop an economy?

If you can't see the irrationality inherent in 20,000 rockets and unarmed, peaceful protesters....
		
Click to expand...

You are not defending yourself if you are the one who started the violence.  So fuck you!  You're talking bullshit!  End the occupation and you won't get rockets, asshole.

No weapons are being smuggled into Gaza by people fishing.  You are shooting at people fishing, not smuggling.  Fishing.  You are sick in the head if you think this is okay.  Who the fuck shoots at someone fishing?  I'll tell you who, someone who is pure evil.
		
Click to expand...

French consul worker arrested for smuggling weapons from Gaza - CNN

Gaza Strip smuggling tunnels - Wikipedia

Egypt confiscates weapons smuggled from Libya to Gaza

BBC NEWS | Middle East | 'No halt' to Gaza arms smuggling*

*'Iran smuggling arms into Gaza by sea'*





*
Why do you lie and damn your eternal soul to Hell?*


----------



## Billo_Really

The Original Tree said:


> *Israel built them an Economy and then The PLO and HAMAS asked Israel to leave, and let Palestine govern itself.  The Result was that they trashed the roads Israel Built, Trashed The Schools Israel Built, Destroyed The Electircal Grid Israel Built, Trashed The Sanitary Systems and Water Purification Systems Israel Built, and Destroyed The Hospitals and Government Buildings Israel Built.
> 
> Now The Palestinians are begging Israel to come back, but HAMAS and THE PLO are beating and killing their own people who are protesting against THEM.
> 
> Why do you hate Jews?*


All those things were destroyed by Israeli missiles during Operation Cast Lead.

Why would I hate Jews?


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Seriously, just what do you think would happen if Gaza just stopped attacking Israel?  Completely.


They did.  For 4 months. Israel responded by attacking Gaza.


----------



## The Original Tree

Billo_Really said:


> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel built them an Economy and then The PLO and HAMAS asked Israel to leave, and let Palestine govern itself.  The Result was that they trashed the roads Israel Built, Trashed The Schools Israel Built, Destroyed The Electircal Grid Israel Built, Trashed The Sanitary Systems and Water Purification Systems Israel Built, and Destroyed The Hospitals and Government Buildings Israel Built.
> 
> Now The Palestinians are begging Israel to come back, but HAMAS and THE PLO are beating and killing their own people who are protesting against THEM.
> 
> Why do you hate Jews?*
> 
> 
> 
> All those things were destroyed by Israeli missiles during Operation Cast Lead.
> 
> Why would I hate Jews?
Click to expand...


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, just what do you think would happen if Gaza just stopped attacking Israel?  Completely.
> 
> 
> 
> They did.  For 4 months. Israel responded by attacking Gaza.
Click to expand...


Which four months are you talking about?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, yes.  Scratch anyone with an irrational understanding of the Gaza conflict and you will inevitably find something like this.
> 
> Tell me, what are your objective criteria for "deserving a country", that you would apply universally to not only the Jewish people, but everyone else.
> 
> I'm the devil?  How horribly creative of you, taking a standard canard that goes back a couple thousand years.  I haven't been called that in days.
> 
> The shit I say?  That Gazans should build a State and an economy instead of trying to murder Jews?
> 
> 
> 
> They can't build an economy because Israel won't let them.
> 
> I couldn't help notice you avoided all the other points I made.
Click to expand...

Hamas is building its economy just fine.  For Hamas members only.

Gaza "Strip Mall": Did the EU's Ashton Check the Opening Sales? | HuffPost

Marketing Madness or Economic Gambit: A New Mall Comes to Gaza - The Media Line


Non Hamas people be darned according to Hamas.

Let us see you deal with the fantastic economy which exists in Gaza.

THE BEST Hotels in Gaza City for 2019 (from $88) - TripAdvisor

THE BEST Gaza City Luxury Hotels of 2019 (with Prices) - TripAdvisor

[ No Economy ?  Really ?




[  Oh, please, say it again that Gaza has NO economy.  Please ! ]


----------



## Billo_Really

The Original Tree said:


> *
> French consul worker arrested for smuggling weapons from Gaza - CNN
> 
> Gaza Strip smuggling tunnels - Wikipedia
> 
> Egypt confiscates weapons smuggled from Libya to Gaza
> 
> BBC NEWS | Middle East | 'No halt' to Gaza arms smuggling*
> 
> *'Iran smuggling arms into Gaza by sea'*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Why do you lie and damn your eternal soul to Hell?*


I couldn't help notice there are no pictures of these confiscated weapons.  Or pictures of them capturing these weapons as they happened to discover.  Just some Israeli official talking shit.


----------



## The Original Tree

Billo_Really said:


> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> French consul worker arrested for smuggling weapons from Gaza - CNN
> 
> Gaza Strip smuggling tunnels - Wikipedia
> 
> Egypt confiscates weapons smuggled from Libya to Gaza
> 
> BBC NEWS | Middle East | 'No halt' to Gaza arms smuggling*
> 
> *'Iran smuggling arms into Gaza by sea'*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Why do you lie and damn your eternal soul to Hell?*
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't help notice there are no pictures of these confiscated weapons.  Or pictures of them capturing these weapons as they happened to discover.  Just some Israeli official talking shit.
Click to expand...

*It's all lies, right?  Anything I post would be a lie for you.  That is why they call it blind hate.



*


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Which four months are you talking about?


From June to November in 2008.

_The *2008 Israel–Hamas ceasefire* was an Egyptian-brokered six-month Tahdia (an Arabic term for a lull) "for the Gaza area", which went into effect between Hamas and Israel on 19 June 2008.[2] According to the Egyptian-brokered agreement, Israel promised to halt air strikes and other attacks, while in return, there would not be rocket attacks on Israel from Gaza. Once the ceasefire held, Israel was to gradually begin to ease its blockade of Gaza.[2]

During the initial week of the ceasefire, Islamic Jihad militants fired rockets on Israel. Under pressure from Hamas, Islamic Jihad had agreed to abide by the temporary truce, which was meant to apply only to Gaza, but had balked at the idea of not responding to Israeli military actions in the West Bank. The New York Times reported that the Islamic Jihad action broke the Hamas-Israeli Gaza truce.[3] During the next 5 months of the ceasefire, Gazan attacks decreased significantly for a total of 19 rocket and 18 mortar shell launchings,[3][4] compared to 1199 rockets and 1072 mortar shells in 2008 up to 19 June, a reduction of 98%.[5]

The agreement called on Israel to increase the level of goods entering Gaza by 30 percent over the pre-lull period within 72 hours and to open all border crossings and "allow the transfer of all goods that were banned and restricted to go into Gaza" within 13 days after the beginning of the ceasefire. The increase in supplies of food, water, medicine and fuel did improve, but the increase was only to an average of about 20 percent of normal levels.[5][6] Two months later the volume of goods arriving was too low to significantly improved living conditions,[7] preventing UNRWA from replenishing its stores.[8] Israel told U.S. officials in 2008 it would keep Gaza's economy "on the brink of collapse".[9]

On 4 November 2008, Israel raided Gaza, killing six Hamas militants. The Israeli military claimed the target of the raid was a tunnel that they said Hamas was planning to use to capture Israeli soldiers positioned on the border fence 250m away.[10] Hamas officials claimed that the tunnel was being dug for defensive purposes. Hamas replied to the Israeli attack with a barrage of rocket fire. On December 20, Hamas announced it would not renew the ceasefire. Operation Cast Lead commenced on 27 December 2008._​


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> French consul worker arrested for smuggling weapons from Gaza - CNN
> 
> Gaza Strip smuggling tunnels - Wikipedia
> 
> Egypt confiscates weapons smuggled from Libya to Gaza
> 
> BBC NEWS | Middle East | 'No halt' to Gaza arms smuggling*
> 
> *'Iran smuggling arms into Gaza by sea'*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Why do you lie and damn your eternal soul to Hell?*
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't help notice there are no pictures of these confiscated weapons.  Or pictures of them capturing these weapons as they happened to discover.  Just some Israeli official talking shit.
Click to expand...



Here's a picture for you, Billo:






That's a Gaza fishing boat.  Loaded into the bottom there is liquid fiberglass which the "fishermen" admitted was destined for Hamas in order to make rockets.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which four months are you talking about?
> 
> 
> 
> From June to November in 2008.
> 
> _The *2008 Israel–Hamas ceasefire* was an Egyptian-brokered six-month Tahdia (an Arabic term for a lull) "for the Gaza area", which went into effect between Hamas and Israel on 19 June 2008.[2] According to the Egyptian-brokered agreement, Israel promised to halt air strikes and other attacks, while in return, there would not be rocket attacks on Israel from Gaza. Once the ceasefire held, Israel was to gradually begin to ease its blockade of Gaza.[2]
> 
> During the initial week of the ceasefire, Islamic Jihad militants fired rockets on Israel. Under pressure from Hamas, Islamic Jihad had agreed to abide by the temporary truce, which was meant to apply only to Gaza, but had balked at the idea of not responding to Israeli military actions in the West Bank. The New York Times reported that the Islamic Jihad action broke the Hamas-Israeli Gaza truce.[3] During the next 5 months of the ceasefire, Gazan attacks decreased significantly for a total of 19 rocket and 18 mortar shell launchings,[3][4] compared to 1199 rockets and 1072 mortar shells in 2008 up to 19 June, a reduction of 98%.[5]
> 
> The agreement called on Israel to increase the level of goods entering Gaza by 30 percent over the pre-lull period within 72 hours and to open all border crossings and "allow the transfer of all goods that were banned and restricted to go into Gaza" within 13 days after the beginning of the ceasefire. The increase in supplies of food, water, medicine and fuel did improve, but the increase was only to an average of about 20 percent of normal levels.[5][6] Two months later the volume of goods arriving was too low to significantly improved living conditions,[7] preventing UNRWA from replenishing its stores.[8] Israel told U.S. officials in 2008 it would keep Gaza's economy "on the brink of collapse".[9]
> 
> On 4 November 2008, Israel raided Gaza, killing six Hamas militants. The Israeli military claimed the target of the raid was a tunnel that they said Hamas was planning to use to capture Israeli soldiers positioned on the border fence 250m away.[10] Hamas officials claimed that the tunnel was being dug for defensive purposes. Hamas replied to the Israeli attack with a barrage of rocket fire. On December 20, Hamas announced it would not renew the ceasefire. Operation Cast Lead commenced on 27 December 2008._​
Click to expand...

Get with the times, Billo.

We are discussing the Peaceful protests which started a year ago.

Sure, you want to bring in something that happened 10 years ago and put the blame on Israel, since in your life, Israel is to blame for everything.

You have only ONE position:

"Israel is to Blame, I do not care what it is , Israel is to blame."


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Hamas is building its economy just fine.  For Hamas members only.
> 
> Gaza "Strip Mall": Did the EU's Ashton Check the Opening Sales? | HuffPost
> 
> Marketing Madness or Economic Gambit: A New Mall Comes to Gaza - The Media Line
> 
> 
> Non Hamas people be darned according to Hamas.
> 
> Let us see you deal with the fantastic economy which exists in Gaza.
> 
> THE BEST Hotels in Gaza City for 2019 (from $88) - TripAdvisor
> 
> THE BEST Gaza City Luxury Hotels of 2019 (with Prices) - TripAdvisor
> 
> [ No Economy ?  Really ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [  Oh, please, say it again that Gaza has NO economy.  Please ! ]


As usual, you are full of shit.

*Gaza's economy 'collapsing' due to Israeli blockade and massive funding cuts, World Bank warns*​


----------



## The Original Tree

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which four months are you talking about?
> 
> 
> 
> From June to November in 2008.
> 
> _The *2008 Israel–Hamas ceasefire* was an Egyptian-brokered six-month Tahdia (an Arabic term for a lull) "for the Gaza area", which went into effect between Hamas and Israel on 19 June 2008.[2] According to the Egyptian-brokered agreement, Israel promised to halt air strikes and other attacks, while in return, there would not be rocket attacks on Israel from Gaza. Once the ceasefire held, Israel was to gradually begin to ease its blockade of Gaza.[2]
> 
> During the initial week of the ceasefire, Islamic Jihad militants fired rockets on Israel. Under pressure from Hamas, Islamic Jihad had agreed to abide by the temporary truce, which was meant to apply only to Gaza, but had balked at the idea of not responding to Israeli military actions in the West Bank. The New York Times reported that the Islamic Jihad action broke the Hamas-Israeli Gaza truce.[3] During the next 5 months of the ceasefire, Gazan attacks decreased significantly for a total of 19 rocket and 18 mortar shell launchings,[3][4] compared to 1199 rockets and 1072 mortar shells in 2008 up to 19 June, a reduction of 98%.[5]
> 
> The agreement called on Israel to increase the level of goods entering Gaza by 30 percent over the pre-lull period within 72 hours and to open all border crossings and "allow the transfer of all goods that were banned and restricted to go into Gaza" within 13 days after the beginning of the ceasefire. The increase in supplies of food, water, medicine and fuel did improve, but the increase was only to an average of about 20 percent of normal levels.[5][6] Two months later the volume of goods arriving was too low to significantly improved living conditions,[7] preventing UNRWA from replenishing its stores.[8] Israel told U.S. officials in 2008 it would keep Gaza's economy "on the brink of collapse".[9]
> 
> On 4 November 2008, Israel raided Gaza, killing six Hamas militants. The Israeli military claimed the target of the raid was a tunnel that they said Hamas was planning to use to capture Israeli soldiers positioned on the border fence 250m away.[10] Hamas officials claimed that the tunnel was being dug for defensive purposes. Hamas replied to the Israeli attack with a barrage of rocket fire. On December 20, Hamas announced it would not renew the ceasefire. Operation Cast Lead commenced on 27 December 2008._​
Click to expand...


----------



## Billo_Really

The Original Tree said:


> *It's all lies, right?  Anything I post would be a lie for you.  That is why they call it blind hate.
> 
> 
> 
> *


I'm saying the only proof you have, is some Israeli official, who is not named, is talking shit.  If you caught someone smuggling, why don't you show pictures of what was confiscated?  

In the video I posted, the people getting shot at are fishing!  It is obvious in the video they are not smuggling.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Here's a picture for you, Billo:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a Gaza fishing boat.  Loaded into the bottom there is liquid fiberglass which the "fishermen" admitted was destined for Hamas in order to make rockets.


Where's the link?


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Get with the times, Billo.
> 
> We are discussing the Peaceful protests which started a year ago.
> 
> Sure, you want to bring in something that happened 10 years ago and put the blame on Israel, since in your life, Israel is to blame for everything.
> 
> You have only ONE position:
> 
> "Israel is to Blame, I do not care what it is , Israel is to blame."


She asked me a question and I felt obligated to answer it.

I blame Israel for the things Israel is responsible for.  Nothing more.


----------



## Billo_Really

The Original Tree said:


>



Get me a date with Gal Gadot and I will gladly throw a Palestinian of your choosing under the bus.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas is building its economy just fine.  For Hamas members only.
> 
> Gaza "Strip Mall": Did the EU's Ashton Check the Opening Sales? | HuffPost
> 
> Marketing Madness or Economic Gambit: A New Mall Comes to Gaza - The Media Line
> 
> 
> Non Hamas people be darned according to Hamas.
> 
> Let us see you deal with the fantastic economy which exists in Gaza.
> 
> THE BEST Hotels in Gaza City for 2019 (from $88) - TripAdvisor
> 
> THE BEST Gaza City Luxury Hotels of 2019 (with Prices) - TripAdvisor
> 
> [ No Economy ?  Really ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [  Oh, please, say it again that Gaza has NO economy.  Please ! ]
> 
> 
> 
> As usual, you are full of shit.
> 
> *Gaza's economy 'collapsing' due to Israeli blockade and massive funding cuts, World Bank warns*​
Click to expand...

So, you are actually saying that the Malls, the Mansions, the expensive cars, the Olympic pool, etc do NOT exist in Gaza.

That is what you are saying, correct?

Without even checking if it is true.

Who's fault is it if there is no "economy" according to you?

ISRAEL

Maybe Israel needs to stop allowing all of those trucks into Gaza and allow the people there to build their own economy.

Yes, the blockade will continue from BOTH Israel and Egypt, as long as Hamas and other groups are in power and intent in destroying Israel.  

And more countries will get fed up with Hamas and others and will cut their funds, because they know all they are doing is feeding a war against Israel, while making the poor, non Hamas people suffer.


THEY understand that.

You .....do not.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which four months are you talking about?
> 
> 
> 
> From June to November in 2008.
Click to expand...


June, 2008:  180+ 
July, 2008:  12 
August, 2008:  19
September, 2008:  5
October, 2008:  1
November, 2008:  200


Oops.  Try again.  



​


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas is building its economy just fine.  For Hamas members only.
> 
> Gaza "Strip Mall": Did the EU's Ashton Check the Opening Sales? | HuffPost
> 
> Marketing Madness or Economic Gambit: A New Mall Comes to Gaza - The Media Line
> 
> 
> Non Hamas people be darned according to Hamas.
> 
> Let us see you deal with the fantastic economy which exists in Gaza.
> 
> THE BEST Hotels in Gaza City for 2019 (from $88) - TripAdvisor
> 
> THE BEST Gaza City Luxury Hotels of 2019 (with Prices) - TripAdvisor
> 
> [ No Economy ?  Really ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [  Oh, please, say it again that Gaza has NO economy.  Please ! ]
> 
> 
> 
> As usual, you are full of shit.
> 
> *Gaza's economy 'collapsing' due to Israeli blockade and massive funding cuts, World Bank warns*​
Click to expand...


“Funding cuts” simply means there’s a reduction in the welfare money going to Hamas. 

Why is anyone obligated to fund an Islamic terrorist franchise?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Get with the times, Billo.
> 
> We are discussing the Peaceful protests which started a year ago.
> 
> Sure, you want to bring in something that happened 10 years ago and put the blame on Israel, since in your life, Israel is to blame for everything.
> 
> You have only ONE position:
> 
> "Israel is to Blame, I do not care what it is , Israel is to blame."
> 
> 
> 
> She asked me a question and I felt obligated to answer it.
> 
> I blame Israel for the things Israel is responsible for.  Nothing more.
Click to expand...

No, Billo.

You blame Israel for things many have become aware that it is because of Hamas' intent in destroying Israel AT ANY COST.

It is in their charter.  Just look it up.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a picture for you, Billo:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a Gaza fishing boat.  Loaded into the bottom there is liquid fiberglass which the "fishermen" admitted was destined for Hamas in order to make rockets.
> 
> 
> 
> Where's the link?
Click to expand...


Where it says "Here is a picture for you, Billo".


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Gaza economy.....going up in smokes.  One rocket at a time, one explosive at a time ]

Earlier, some 200 terrorists opened fire at the border fence in northern Gaza and also fired a number of shots at Israeli forces.

About 500 explosives and grenades were thrown towards the fence and the Israeli troops. There were no casualties among the IDF soldiers.


IDF fires at Hamas military post in northern Gaza


----------



## Shusha

Dr. Einat Wilf neatly sums up the foundation of the "March of Return" and the on-going Gaza hostility towards Israel.  And she drops a new term which I am TOTALLY going to adopt:  West-splaining.


----------



## Mindful

*Hamas Plans to Use Children as Human Shields in Mass Border Riots This Weekend, Israeli UN Envoy Warns.*


Hamas plans to use children as human shields during mass border demonstrations planned for Saturday, Israel’s UN envoy warned on Friday.

In a letter to the UN Security Council and Secretary-General Antonio Guterres, Israeli Ambassador Danny Danon wrote, “Hamas has cancelled school on 30 March so that children will be free to attend the riots. As always, Hamas will exploit these children as human shields and compensate the rioters and their families, should they suffer injuries.”

Danon continued, “There can be no doubt that in the upcoming riots, Hamas will seek to fulfill the words of Yahya Sinwar, its leader in Gaza: ‘We will take down the border and tear out their hearts from their bodies.’”

“But we will not tolerate any action that threatens our people, our sovereignty and our borders, whether it comes from terrorists, violent rioters or so-called ‘peaceful protesters,’” Danon concluded.

Hamas Plans to Use Children as Human Shields in Mass Border Riots This Weekend, Israeli UN Envoy Warns


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> *Hamas Plans to Use Children as Human Shields in Mass Border Riots This Weekend, Israeli UN Envoy Warns.*
> 
> 
> Hamas plans to use children as human shields during mass border demonstrations planned for Saturday, Israel’s UN envoy warned on Friday.
> 
> In a letter to the UN Security Council and Secretary-General Antonio Guterres, Israeli Ambassador Danny Danon wrote, “Hamas has cancelled school on 30 March so that children will be free to attend the riots. As always, Hamas will exploit these children as human shields and compensate the rioters and their families, should they suffer injuries.”
> 
> Danon continued, “There can be no doubt that in the upcoming riots, Hamas will seek to fulfill the words of Yahya Sinwar, its leader in Gaza: ‘We will take down the border and tear out their hearts from their bodies.’”
> 
> “But we will not tolerate any action that threatens our people, our sovereignty and our borders, whether it comes from terrorists, violent rioters or so-called ‘peaceful protesters,’” Danon concluded.
> 
> Hamas Plans to Use Children as Human Shields in Mass Border Riots This Weekend, Israeli UN Envoy Warns





Mindful said:


> “But we will not tolerate any action that threatens our people, our sovereignty and our borders,


Danny Danon does not know that there is no border there.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Plans to Use Children as Human Shields in Mass Border Riots This Weekend, Israeli UN Envoy Warns.*
> 
> 
> Hamas plans to use children as human shields during mass border demonstrations planned for Saturday, Israel’s UN envoy warned on Friday.
> 
> In a letter to the UN Security Council and Secretary-General Antonio Guterres, Israeli Ambassador Danny Danon wrote, “Hamas has cancelled school on 30 March so that children will be free to attend the riots. As always, Hamas will exploit these children as human shields and compensate the rioters and their families, should they suffer injuries.”
> 
> Danon continued, “There can be no doubt that in the upcoming riots, Hamas will seek to fulfill the words of Yahya Sinwar, its leader in Gaza: ‘We will take down the border and tear out their hearts from their bodies.’”
> 
> “But we will not tolerate any action that threatens our people, our sovereignty and our borders, whether it comes from terrorists, violent rioters or so-called ‘peaceful protesters,’” Danon concluded.
> 
> Hamas Plans to Use Children as Human Shields in Mass Border Riots This Weekend, Israeli UN Envoy Warns
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> “But we will not tolerate any action that threatens our people, our sovereignty and our borders,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Danny Danon does not know that there is no border there.
Click to expand...


Keep straining.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Plans to Use Children as Human Shields in Mass Border Riots This Weekend, Israeli UN Envoy Warns.*
> 
> 
> Hamas plans to use children as human shields during mass border demonstrations planned for Saturday, Israel’s UN envoy warned on Friday.
> 
> In a letter to the UN Security Council and Secretary-General Antonio Guterres, Israeli Ambassador Danny Danon wrote, “Hamas has cancelled school on 30 March so that children will be free to attend the riots. As always, Hamas will exploit these children as human shields and compensate the rioters and their families, should they suffer injuries.”
> 
> Danon continued, “There can be no doubt that in the upcoming riots, Hamas will seek to fulfill the words of Yahya Sinwar, its leader in Gaza: ‘We will take down the border and tear out their hearts from their bodies.’”
> 
> “But we will not tolerate any action that threatens our people, our sovereignty and our borders, whether it comes from terrorists, violent rioters or so-called ‘peaceful protesters,’” Danon concluded.
> 
> Hamas Plans to Use Children as Human Shields in Mass Border Riots This Weekend, Israeli UN Envoy Warns
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> “But we will not tolerate any action that threatens our people, our sovereignty and our borders,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Danny Danon does not know that there is no border there.
Click to expand...


Of course there’s a border there. It’s the location where the Islamic gee-had
ends and modern civilization begins.

If there is no border, a border defended by Israel, what is preventing you from crossing and ripping the hearts out of the Jews?

Is it cowardice and incompetence on your part or is it something else?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Plans to Use Children as Human Shields in Mass Border Riots This Weekend, Israeli UN Envoy Warns.*
> 
> 
> Hamas plans to use children as human shields during mass border demonstrations planned for Saturday, Israel’s UN envoy warned on Friday.
> 
> In a letter to the UN Security Council and Secretary-General Antonio Guterres, Israeli Ambassador Danny Danon wrote, “Hamas has cancelled school on 30 March so that children will be free to attend the riots. As always, Hamas will exploit these children as human shields and compensate the rioters and their families, should they suffer injuries.”
> 
> Danon continued, “There can be no doubt that in the upcoming riots, Hamas will seek to fulfill the words of Yahya Sinwar, its leader in Gaza: ‘We will take down the border and tear out their hearts from their bodies.’”
> 
> “But we will not tolerate any action that threatens our people, our sovereignty and our borders, whether it comes from terrorists, violent rioters or so-called ‘peaceful protesters,’” Danon concluded.
> 
> Hamas Plans to Use Children as Human Shields in Mass Border Riots This Weekend, Israeli UN Envoy Warns
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> “But we will not tolerate any action that threatens our people, our sovereignty and our borders,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Danny Danon does not know that there is no border there.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course there’s a border there. It’s the location where the Islamic gee-had
> ends and modern civilization begins.
> 
> If there is no border, a border defended by Israel, what is preventing you from crossing and ripping the hearts out of the Jews?
> 
> Is it cowardice and incompetence on your part or is it something else?
Click to expand...

Keep blabbering. There is no border there. That is just Israel's cage around Gaza.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas chief makes appearance at Gaza’s Land Day protest


IDF: Number of Gazan protesters climbs to 40,000, but most staying away from fence


Gaza health ministry says teen killed in first casualty at Land Day protest


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Ok, this is a Peaceful Demonstration.  Why would it need hospitals and ambulances if they were to stay away from the fence, and not be throwing explosives and any such "non-violent" means of protest ?   
In Arabic dictionary Peaceful means =  Attack ? 

Now, how many non Hamas members (those are already getting paid a salary)  being paid a salary or fee to come to the fence, and more if they get injured, arrested or killed?  What could the payment be today for such an important event?  ]

On Saturday morning, Israeli troops arrested two Palestinian minors armed with knives attempting to breach the Gaza border fence, the IDF said in a statement. The teens were questioned and returned to the Strip.

Gaza’s health ministry announced Saturday morning that it had completed preparations for the planned protests, with hospitals and ambulances on stand-by ahead of the demonstrations. Field hospitals were set up at various points, and medical facilities in the Strip are on an emergency footing.

The Israeli military’s primary concern in the March of Return protests is that large groups of people will break through the fence, armed with guns, grenades and knives, and either enter one of the Israeli communities located a few hundred meters from the border and attack those inside, or try to abduct soldiers stationed along the security fence.

(full article online)

Army says 40,000 riot at Gaza border; IDF responds with live fire, tear gas


----------



## enemyofislam

P F Tinmore said:


> Keep blabbering. There is no border there. That is just Israel's cage around Gaza.



The UN recognizes it as an international border. If Israel annexed the region you'd claim it was "palestinian" land, so that explicitly understands there is a border.

You're clearly neither intelligent, nor informed.


----------



## enemyofislam

Israel and the sane countries of the mideast and world need to eradicate the iranian regime; once it is gone the terrorist groups will be much more easily crushed.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> So, you are actually saying that the Malls, the Mansions, the expensive cars, the Olympic pool, etc do NOT exist in Gaza.


No, I'm not saying that.  I'm saying this...





That is the reality in Gaza today.




Sixties Fan said:


> That is what you are saying, correct?


Not correct.  Again, I am saying this is what Israel has done to Gaza and will not allow these buildings to be fixed.








Sixties Fan said:


> Without even checking if it is true.


Wishful thinking on your part.



Sixties Fan said:


> Who's fault is it if there is no "economy" according to you?


The Israeli blockade.  And its not just "my" opinion.  It is the opinion of the entire world.



Sixties Fan said:


> ISRAEL


Of coarse its Israel.  No one else shoots at their fishermen.



Sixties Fan said:


> Maybe Israel needs to stop allowing all of those trucks into Gaza and allow the people there to build their own economy.


How do you build an economy when Israel controls everything going in to (and out of) Gaza and will not allow basic materials to repair buildings and infrastructure destroyed by Israeli missiles?



Sixties Fan said:


> Yes, the blockade will continue from BOTH Israel and Egypt, as long as Hamas and other groups are in power and intent in destroying Israel.


Egypt only controls its one border at the direction of Israel.  It was Israel's decision to blockade Gaza in the first place and Israel is the only country prohibiting Gazan fishing in international waters.  Israel also blockades Gazan airspace and will not allow them to have an airport.

As for Hamas, who Gazans choose to represent them in a fair and democratic election, is none of Israel's fucking business!



Sixties Fan said:


> And more countries will get fed up with Hamas and others and will cut their funds, because they know all they are doing is feeding a war against Israel, while making the poor, non Hamas people suffer.


Countries are fed up with Israel.  That's why after 70 years, Israel is looked as a pariah state that Jews all over the world do not want to be associated with.



Sixties Fan said:


> THEY understand that.


Like you know what "THEY" think?  Who is this "THEY" people?  The only shit you know, is what the Chinese allow you to know.



Sixties Fan said:


> You .....do not.


And you don't have a clue as to what I know, either.

One last thing, if things in Gaza were so rozy, they wouldn't be "massing" at the border.


----------



## Hollie

It seems that the Islamic terrorists in Hamas are bending and scraping to the the wishes of their masters in Iran.

With the Islamic terrorists massing near the Israeli border, it’s only a matter of time before they begin hurling explosives, setting incendiary balloons in the air and attempting to breach the Israeli border.

What’s the over / under on the number of dead Islamic terrorists?

*Tens of Thousands of Palestinians Gather in Gaza for March of Return Anniversary *

*Tens of thousands of Palestinians gather in Gaza for March of Return anniversary
*

17-year-old Palestinian killed by live Israeli fire, Gaza's Health Ministry says ■ Violence remains contained after tentative understandings reached between Israel and the Palestinians through Egyptian mediation

Amos Harel, Jack Khoury, Almog Ben Zikri and Yotam Berger Mar 30, 2019 3:51 PM


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> June, 2008:  180+
> July, 2008:  12
> August, 2008:  19
> September, 2008:  5
> October, 2008:  1
> November, 2008:  200
> 
> Oops.  Try again.


The ceasefire ended on Nov 8th. So you can't count November's total.  And you can't count June, since the ceasefire started on June 19th.  What you are deliberately not recognizing is...

_From my link above:
During the next 5 months of the ceasefire, Gazan attacks *decreased significantly* for a total of 19 rocket and 18 mortar shell launchings, *compared to 1199 rockets and 1072 mortar shells* in 2008 up to 19 June, *a reduction of 98% *._​
Even though life for Israeli's became normal for 5 months, the Israeli government still would not honor their part of the agreement.  You fuckers have a history of not honoring the things you say you are going to do.  You DO have a history of "moving the goal posts" every time you don't like how the conversation is going.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> “Funding cuts” simply means there’s a reduction in the welfare money going to Hamas.
> 
> Why is anyone obligated to fund an Islamic terrorist franchise?


End the blockade and they won't need welfare.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> One last thing, if things in Gaza were so rozy, they wouldn't be "massing" at the border.



Your alternate reality makes you a poor commentator on the “realities in Gaza’istan”

Those _Poor, Oppressed Islamic Terrorists. 




_ 



One thing first. Things are as rosy in Gaza’istan as they are in Yemen, as they are in the failed ISIS caliphate in Syria as they are in Iran and as they are across the entirety of the Islamic Middle East because of one element, one common theme at the heart of the matter that connects all the Islamic Hell holes: Islamic ideology. 

Congratulations on your conversion to Islam. There’s a gee-had opportunity for you in Gaza’istan. 

Make a Mullah happy.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Funding cuts” simply means there’s a reduction in the welfare money going to Hamas.
> 
> Why is anyone obligated to fund an Islamic terrorist franchise?
> 
> 
> 
> End the blockade and they won't need welfare.
Click to expand...


Simplistic comments from the simpleton.

The various Islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza and Abbas’istan have accumulated incredible wealth through thievery, fraud and greed. They’re not going away. Why don’t you tell us what it is that generations of welfare cheats are going to do without welfare.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> No, Billo.
> 
> You blame Israel for things many have become aware that it is because of Hamas' intent in destroying Israel AT ANY COST.
> 
> It is in their charter.  Just look it up.


That is an outdated document Hamas officials say they don't even follow anymore.  More recently, they said they are willing to recognize Israel if they...

end the blockade
end the occupation regarding the '67 borders
allow the right of return to Palestinian refugees
That is a far cry from destroy "AT ANY COST".

If Israel wanted peace, they wouldn't be the ones breaking all the ceasefires.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> June, 2008:  180+
> July, 2008:  12
> August, 2008:  19
> September, 2008:  5
> October, 2008:  1
> November, 2008:  200
> 
> Oops.  Try again.
> 
> 
> 
> The ceasefire ended on Nov 8th. So you can't count November's total.  And you can't count June, since the ceasefire started on June 19th.  What you are deliberately not recognizing is...
> 
> _From my link above:
> During the next 5 months of the ceasefire, Gazan attacks *decreased significantly* for a total of 19 rocket and 18 mortar shell launchings, *compared to 1199 rockets and 1072 mortar shells* in 2008 up to 19 June, *a reduction of 98% *._​
> Even though life for Israeli's became normal for 5 months, the Israeli government still would not honor their part of the agreement.  You fuckers have a history of not honoring the things you say you are going to do.  You DO have a history of "moving the goal posts" every time you don't like how the conversation is going.
Click to expand...


A “normal life” is defined by mere dozens of Islamic terrorist attacks instead of thousands?

You have that characteristic rug burn mark on your forehead, right?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> June, 2008:  180+
> July, 2008:  12
> August, 2008:  19
> September, 2008:  5
> October, 2008:  1
> November, 2008:  200
> 
> Oops.  Try again.
> 
> 
> 
> The ceasefire ended on Nov 8th. So you can't count November's total.  And you can't count June, since the ceasefire started on June 19th.  What you are deliberately not recognizing is...
> 
> _From my link above:
> During the next 5 months of the ceasefire, Gazan attacks *decreased significantly* for a total of 19 rocket and 18 mortar shell launchings, *compared to 1199 rockets and 1072 mortar shells* in 2008 up to 19 June, *a reduction of 98% *._​
> Even though life for Israeli's became normal for 5 months, the Israeli government still would not honor their part of the agreement.  You fuckers have a history of not honoring the things you say you are going to do.  You DO have a history of "moving the goal posts" every time you don't like how the conversation is going.
Click to expand...

"_*decreased significantly* for a total of 19 rocket and 18 mortar shell launchings,"
-------

Well, well, well, here is a guy who does not understand the meaning of "ceasefire"   Anymore than Hamas does.

Israel would not honor which part of the agreement, Billo?

WHAT exactly was the agreement in 2008?_


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, Billo.
> 
> You blame Israel for things many have become aware that it is because of Hamas' intent in destroying Israel AT ANY COST.
> 
> It is in their charter.  Just look it up.
> 
> 
> 
> That is an outdated document Hamas officials say they don't even follow anymore.  More recently, they said they are willing to recognize Israel if they...
> 
> end the blockade
> end the occupation regarding the '67 borders
> allow the right of return to Palestinian refugees
> That is a far cry from destroy "AT ANY COST".
> 
> If Israel wanted peace, they wouldn't be the ones breaking all the ceasefires.
Click to expand...


The Hamas charter is as valid to Islamic terrorists today as it was decades ago. 

There’s a gee-had being played out at the Israeli border. Try paying attention.


----------



## Hollie

Peaceful, unarmed Islamic terrorist gee-had wannabes.


*40,000 PALESTINIANS PROTEST ALONG GAZA BORDER MARKING LAND DAY*
3 minute read.
By ANNA AHRONHEIM,TAMAR BEERI

40,000 Palestinians protest along Gaza border marking Land Day


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Where it says "Here is a picture for you, Billo".


The first time I tried that link it didn't work.

As far as the link now, fiberglass is a dual-use material.  Maybe Gazans wanted to go surfing?  I don't know what the fiberglass was intended to be used for and I certainly don't trust confessions extracted by Shin Bet.  People will say anything under torture.  But your link did offer this little nugget...

_While most Gaza fishermen were not involved in terrorist activity...
_​...Israel still shoots at those fishermen, as my video showed.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, Billo.
> 
> You blame Israel for things many have become aware that it is because of Hamas' intent in destroying Israel AT ANY COST.
> 
> It is in their charter.  Just look it up.
> 
> 
> 
> That is an outdated document Hamas officials say they don't even follow anymore.  More recently, they said they are willing to recognize Israel if they...
> 
> end the blockade
> end the occupation regarding the '67 borders
> allow the right of return to Palestinian refugees
> That is a far cry from destroy "AT ANY COST".
> 
> If Israel wanted peace, they wouldn't be the ones breaking all the ceasefires.
Click to expand...

The charter is not outdated, you are trying to cover up for them.

Their goals are still the same as shown every Friday, and many other days.  The "right" of return.  A right which does not exist in International law, and does not apply to any people on the planet, but the Arabs insist on having it.
They are not refugees in the true sense of the word.  They are Palestinians, and they are living in one part of the Mandate for Palestine, be it in Gaza or Judea and Samaria.
They are Palestinians who DO live in Palestine.

Where were you from 1948 to 1967 that you were not chanting "Free Gaza and Free the West Bank" from the Egyptian and Jordanian occupation?

Are you asking Egypt to end the blockade as well?  I have not seen you ask that.

There is no occupation, but a mere dispute over territory the Arabs in that area could not care less between 1948 and 1967, as they were under "Muslim occupation", a real one, by Jordan.

Flooding Israel with Millions of descendants of the actual refugees who fled, or were expelled, in order to make Israel a majority Arab State, and therefore eventually taking over Israel and doing away with it IS  "At Any Cost".

The endless protests, non peaceful, and the hundreds of Arab lives Hamas or the PA do not care about IS "At Any Cost".

That is how Muslims think.  They learned it from Mohammad and how he betrayed the Jews who had helped him against his enemies only to conquer and murder or enslave them.


Israel is not falling for that game again, regardless of what you do choose to believe in.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where it says "Here is a picture for you, Billo".
> 
> 
> 
> The first time I tried that link it didn't work.
> 
> As far as the link now, fiberglass is a dual-use material.  Maybe Gazans wanted to go surfing?  I don't know what the fiberglass was intended to be used for and I certainly don't trust confessions extracted by Shin Bet.  People will say anything under torture.  But your link did offer this little nugget...
> 
> _While most Gaza fishermen were not involved in terrorist activity...
> _​...Israel still shoots at those fishermen, as my video showed.
Click to expand...

You say the last sentence as if it was a daily ritual on the part of Israel, rather than it happening when fishermen are caught outside the allowed perimeter.
Egypt would do the same, and more.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Your alternate reality makes you a poor commentator on the “realities in Gaza’istan”
> 
> Those _Poor, Oppressed Islamic Terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> One thing first. Things are as rosy in Gaza’istan as they are in Yemen, as they are in the failed ISIS caliphate in Syria as they are in Iran and as they are across the entirety of the Islamic Middle East because of one element, one common theme at the heart of the matter that connects all the Islamic Hell holes: Islamic ideology.
> 
> Congratulations on your conversion to Islam. There’s a gee-had opportunity for you in Gaza’istan.
> 
> Make a Mullah happy.


Hell holes like this...


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> A “normal life” is defined by mere dozens of Islamic terrorist attacks instead of thousands?
> 
> You have that characteristic rug burn mark on your forehead, right?


Which proves you have no concept of reality.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> "_*decreased significantly* for a total of 19 rocket and 18 mortar shell launchings,"
> -------
> 
> Well, well, well, here is a guy who does not understand the meaning of "ceasefire"   Anymore than Hamas does.
> 
> Israel would not honor which part of the agreement, Billo?
> 
> WHAT exactly was the agreement in 2008?_


There was a 98% reduction in rocket attacks.  Was there a 98% reduction in the Israeli blockade?  Fuck no!


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> The Hamas charter is as valid to Islamic terrorists today as it was decades ago.
> 
> There’s a gee-had being played out at the Israeli border. Try paying attention.


That's the big lie you keep pushing.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> You say the last sentence as if it was a daily ritual on the part of Israel, rather than it happening when fishermen are caught outside the allowed perimeter.
> Egypt would do the same, and more.


Israel has no jurisdiction in international waters.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> "_*decreased significantly* for a total of 19 rocket and 18 mortar shell launchings,"
> -------
> 
> Well, well, well, here is a guy who does not understand the meaning of "ceasefire"   Anymore than Hamas does.
> 
> Israel would not honor which part of the agreement, Billo?
> 
> WHAT exactly was the agreement in 2008?_
> 
> 
> 
> There was a 98% reduction in rocket attacks.  Was there a 98% reduction in the Israeli blockade?  Fuck no!
Click to expand...

Why do both Israel AND  Egypt keep a blockade against Gaza?

Why doesn't Hamas demand a right of return to Egypt, since many of the Arabs in Gaza are from Egypt and were forced into Gaza when Egypt conquered Gaza in the 1948 war?

You have not answered what the agreement was.  What was Israel supposed to do, but did not, since Hamas did not stop firing rockets, and you are deliberately changing how people ought to behave, what the meaning of ceasefire is, and what consequences should be if one party does not stop firing rockets intent on killing civilians on the other side.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You say the last sentence as if it was a daily ritual on the part of Israel, rather than it happening when fishermen are caught outside the allowed perimeter.
> Egypt would do the same, and more.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has no jurisdiction in international waters.
Click to expand...

Which shows how much you do know about blockades and International law.

But keep repeating that, since in your ears it sounds SO good.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your alternate reality makes you a poor commentator on the “realities in Gaza’istan”
> 
> Those _Poor, Oppressed Islamic Terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> One thing first. Things are as rosy in Gaza’istan as they are in Yemen, as they are in the failed ISIS caliphate in Syria as they are in Iran and as they are across the entirety of the Islamic Middle East because of one element, one common theme at the heart of the matter that connects all the Islamic Hell holes: Islamic ideology.
> 
> Congratulations on your conversion to Islam. There’s a gee-had opportunity for you in Gaza’istan.
> 
> Make a Mullah happy.
> 
> 
> 
> Hell holes like this...
Click to expand...

Where is the link to the photo and what year was it?  
Are you sure it is Gaza and not Syria?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Hamas charter is as valid to Islamic terrorists today as it was decades ago.
> 
> There’s a gee-had being played out at the Israeli border. Try paying attention.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the big lie you keep pushing.
Click to expand...

Since you are so close to Hamas, send them a tweet and ask them about it.  Or Instagram.  Is their Facebook page still up?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Hamas charter is as valid to Islamic terrorists today as it was decades ago.
> 
> There’s a gee-had being played out at the Israeli border. Try paying attention.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the big lie you keep pushing.
Click to expand...

Do give us a link to the updated Hamas Charter when it does say that the Charter's intent is NOT to take over the rest of Palestine, meaning Israel, by any means, where every Palestinian or Arab's duty is to fight to take the land back.

Link, article, exact words where they only want their right to return, or what is rightly theirs (what would that be ) a return which as I said, does not exist anywhere in the world.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ They chose to listen to the IDF ]

2 hours ago

IDF: Number of Land Day protesters drops to 19,000, with most staying away from fence

1 hour ago

Number of Land Day protesters in Gaza drops to 6,000 as demonstrations wrap up


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF: Hamas operated with unprecedented restraint during Land Day protests


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ This is how Hamas, following Mohammad's blueprint, honors a ceasefire.  A Tahdia by any other name, is always a Tahdia ]

The *2008 Israel–Hamas ceasefire* was an Egyptian-brokered six-month Tahdia (an Arabic term for a lull) "for the Gaza area", which went into effect between Hamas and Israel on 19 June 2008.[2] According to the Egyptian-brokered agreement, Israel promised to halt air strikes and other attacks, while in return, there would not be rocket attacks on Israel from Gaza. Once the ceasefire held, Israel was to gradually begin to ease its blockade of Gaza.[2]

During the initial week of the ceasefire, Islamic Jihad militants fired rockets on Israel. Under pressure from Hamas, Islamic Jihad had agreed to abide by the temporary truce, which was meant to apply only to Gaza, but had balked at the idea of not responding to Israeli military actions in the West Bank. The New York Times reported that the Islamic Jihad action broke the Hamas-Israeli Gaza truce.[3] During the next 5 months of the ceasefire, Gazan attacks decreased significantly for a total of 19 rocket and 18 mortar shell launchings,[3][4] compared to 1199 rockets and 1072 mortar shells in 2008 up to 19 June, a reduction of 98%.[5]

(full article online)

2008 Israel–Hamas ceasefire - Wikipedia


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> June, 2008:  180+
> July, 2008:  12
> August, 2008:  19
> September, 2008:  5
> October, 2008:  1
> November, 2008:  200
> 
> Oops.  Try again.
> 
> 
> 
> The ceasefire ended on Nov 8th. So you can't count November's total.  And you can't count June, since the ceasefire started on June 19th.  What you are deliberately not recognizing is...
> 
> _From my link above:
> During the next 5 months of the ceasefire, Gazan attacks *decreased significantly* for a total of 19 rocket and 18 mortar shell launchings, *compared to 1199 rockets and 1072 mortar shells* in 2008 up to 19 June, *a reduction of 98% *._​
> Even though life for Israeli's became normal for 5 months, the Israeli government still would not honor their part of the agreement.  You fuckers have a history of not honoring the things you say you are going to do.  You DO have a history of "moving the goal posts" every time you don't like how the conversation is going.
Click to expand...


Just to remind:  the original question was, What do you think would happen if Gaza stopped attacking Israel completely.  You responded with, Israel will keep attacking her anyway.  

But wait, during the time of the *ceasefire*, counting ONLY those rockets and mortars from June 20 to November 8, there were *still 106 attacks on Israel*.

I'll ask again, what do you think will happen if Gaza stops attacking Israel completely?


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> ...and will not allow basic materials to repair buildings and infrastructure destroyed by Israeli missiles?



And yet, Gazans seem to find 100s of millions of dollars worth of concrete to build tunnels.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where it says "Here is a picture for you, Billo".
> 
> 
> 
> The first time I tried that link it didn't work.
> 
> As far as the link now, fiberglass is a dual-use material.  Maybe Gazans wanted to go surfing?  I don't know what the fiberglass was intended to be used for and I certainly don't trust confessions extracted by Shin Bet.  People will say anything under torture.  But your link did offer this little nugget...
> 
> _While most Gaza fishermen were not involved in terrorist activity...
> _​...Israel still shoots at those fishermen, as my video showed.
Click to expand...


See?  And this is where you once again descend into irrationality which seems to stem from your need to claim Israel as evil and Arab Palestinians universally innocent. 

We know rockets and mortars are being smuggled into Gaza, or being made in Gaza. 
We know that the 'fishermen' in question were smuggling in a large amount of liquid fiberglass.
We know that liquid fiberglass is used to make rockets.
We know that the 'fishermen' admitted to this as its intended use. 

AND YET, somehow you create a cognitive disconnect which says:

The fishermen were really just fishing, not smuggling.
The fiberglass was obviously going to be used for something other than weapons.

AND THEN, you create an additional evil for Israel:

The fishermen were tortured. 


And then you go on to say that Israel shoots at fishermen who are not involved in smuggling.  But in reality, Israel shoots only at those fishing boats who are 1.  Outside the blockade perimeter.  2.  and then do not obey instruction to turn back.  3.  and then do not obey warning shots.  4.  and then refuse to be boarded and have their cargo checked.  5.  and then attempt escape. 

Let me ask you another question.  What do you think will happen if Israel ends the sea blockade?


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really 

Did you happen to watch Einat Wilf's video I posted?  You are the perfect example of West-splaining.


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> [ They chose to listen to the IDF ]
> 
> 2 hours ago
> 
> IDF: Number of Land Day protesters drops to 19,000, with most staying away from fence
> 
> 1 hour ago
> 
> Number of Land Day protesters in Gaza drops to 6,000 as demonstrations wrap up



Well, this is good.  I have to admit I was worried that it would go the other way.


----------



## Slyhunter

Gazans should be free to leave, as long as their destination is not Israel. Nobody should be allowed to enter Gaza though. At least not through Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

On Saturday morning, IDF troops apprehended two children near the security fence in the southern Gaza Strip. The children were carrying a knife.

Following an initial inquiry by IDF troops in the field, the children explained that they had intended to infiltrate into Israel with a knife so that they would be apprehended and sent to prison.

IDF troops gave the children water and then returned them to Gaza through the Erez Crossing.


(full article online)

Two children infiltrate Israel, armed with a knife


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Hell holes like this...



Again, your cognitive disconnect is showing.

_The Palestinian Housing Minister announced on Sunday that 90 per cent of the houses destroyed by Israel during the 2014 military offensive against Gaza have been rebuilt, Safa News Agency has reported.  Source._


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ This was today. Very peaceful. ]


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your alternate reality makes you a poor commentator on the “realities in Gaza’istan”
> 
> Those _Poor, Oppressed Islamic Terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> One thing first. Things are as rosy in Gaza’istan as they are in Yemen, as they are in the failed ISIS caliphate in Syria as they are in Iran and as they are across the entirety of the Islamic Middle East because of one element, one common theme at the heart of the matter that connects all the Islamic Hell holes: Islamic ideology.
> 
> Congratulations on your conversion to Islam. There’s a gee-had opportunity for you in Gaza’istan.
> 
> Make a Mullah happy.
> 
> 
> 
> Hell holes like this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is the link to the photo and what year was it?
> Are you sure it is Gaza and not Syria?
Click to expand...


The photo is from TripAdviso, Gaza hotel. Open the link and scroll to the right.

Gaza City Photos - Featured Images of Gaza City, Gaza - TripAdvisor


I’m feeling so guilty that we don’t give millions more to those Poor, suffering Arabs-Moslems.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your alternate reality makes you a poor commentator on the “realities in Gaza’istan”
> 
> Those _Poor, Oppressed Islamic Terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> One thing first. Things are as rosy in Gaza’istan as they are in Yemen, as they are in the failed ISIS caliphate in Syria as they are in Iran and as they are across the entirety of the Islamic Middle East because of one element, one common theme at the heart of the matter that connects all the Islamic Hell holes: Islamic ideology.
> 
> Congratulations on your conversion to Islam. There’s a gee-had opportunity for you in Gaza’istan.
> 
> Make a Mullah happy.
> 
> 
> 
> Hell holes like this...
Click to expand...


I’m afraid that acts of war / acts of Islamic terrorism carry consequences. There are consequences when your Islamic terrorist heroes wage gee-had attacks aimed at Israel. 

Why do you believe that Islamic terrorists should not face consequences for their actions?


----------



## Sixties Fan

IED balloons have been released non stop round the clock towards Israel l, with the balloon unit saying they had prepared 45000 baloons and many explosives for the attacks

Friday night Gazan reports say over 650 IEDs were thrown at the border, residents of Israel heard non stop exploding through the night

Islamic Jihad says “tonight Israel will shake”

IDF reports says 19k are rioting on the border with rocks and IEDs

Far from a million… The numbers of how many came to the March and how many came within 300 meters vary based on Israel reports and within Gaza as well the numbers keep changing, seems. To be between 40k-60k…. The same is with the injured seems. Roughly 300 injured, 2 killed, 5 fighting for their lives, 8 very badly injured

7pm There are approximately 6,000 left and the night attacks, which they confirmed is set for tonight, will be starting in the next hour

(full article online)

Israel Finally Uses Force to Stop Massive Gaza Violence on the Border Fence


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  Slyhunter, et al

I certainly understand the sentiment expressed here; but, realistically and practically, I not sure that this is entirely possible or _(in the long-term)_ desirable.  And yes, again, this is NOT an issue for foreign intervention being that it is essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of Israel and a matter of State Security. (Article 2(7) UN Charter)



Slyhunter said:


> Gazans should be free to leave, as long as their destination is not Israel. Nobody should be allowed to enter Gaza though. At least not through Israel.


*(COMMENT)*

There are a couple of serious factors that are variable prime movers relative to border traffic - (back and forth) - cross border:

◈  The magnitude of unemployment in the disputed territories (AKA:  West Bank, Jerusalem, the Gaza Strip).

◈  The real impact of the wage gap which causes a disparity in quality of life between the Israeli and Palestinian economies and human development.​
*(THE RIGHT DIRECTION)*

The Coordination of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT) and in particular the coordination and Liaison Administration (CLA) for the Gaza Strip, need to be expanded, not reduced if they are to combat the effects of unemployment and the degeneration of the quality of life.  No longer is it enough to answer each and every HostielArab Palestinian action with a corresponding military reaction.  And it is no longer enough just to coordinate ≈ 100,000 tons of goods per week passing Border Crossings.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gazans shoot five rockets at Israel after day of ‘restrained’ border protests


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Why do both Israel AND  Egypt keep a blockade against Gaza?
> 
> Why doesn't Hamas demand a right of return to Egypt, since many of the Arabs in Gaza are from Egypt and were forced into Gaza when Egypt conquered Gaza in the 1948 war?
> 
> You have not answered what the agreement was.  What was Israel supposed to do, but did not, since Hamas did not stop firing rockets, and you are deliberately changing how people ought to behave, what the meaning of ceasefire is, and what consequences should be if one party does not stop firing rockets intent on killing civilians on the other side.


I've provided the link, go read it yourself.

The right of return is about those people who were driven from the area by Zionist terrorists shortly after the Zionists moved into the area.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Which shows how much you do know about blockades and International law.
> 
> But keep repeating that, since in your ears it sounds SO good.


No, you explain why Israel has jurisdiction in international waters, you fucking bitch!


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Where is the link to the photo and what year was it?
> Are you sure it is Gaza and not Syria?


Here you go...

*Gaza destruction 'beyond description', says Ban 
*​...it was from 2014.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Since you are so close to Hamas, send them a tweet and ask them about it.  Or Instagram.  Is their Facebook page still up?


You tell me.  You're the one who is actively trying to silence critics.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Hamas charter is as valid to Islamic terrorists today as it was decades ago.
> 
> There’s a gee-had being played out at the Israeli border. Try paying attention.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the big lie you keep pushing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do give us a link to the updated Hamas Charter when it does say that the Charter's intent is NOT to take over the rest of Palestine, meaning Israel, by any means, where every Palestinian or Arab's duty is to fight to take the land back.
> 
> Link, article, exact words where they only want their right to return, or what is rightly theirs (what would that be ) a return which as I said, does not exist anywhere in the world.
Click to expand...

This is too easy...

*Hamas accepts Palestinian state with 1967 borders*
_Khaled Meshaal presents a new document in which Hamas accepts 1967 borders without recognizing state of Israel.

While Hamas' 1988 founding charter called for the takeover of all of mandate Palestine, including present-day Israel, the new document says it will accept the 1967 borders as the basis for a Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital and the return of refugees to their homes._​_..._what you say, is a total farce.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Just to remind:  the original question was, What do you think would happen if Gaza stopped attacking Israel completely.  You responded with, Israel will keep attacking her anyway.
> 
> But wait, during the time of the *ceasefire*, counting ONLY those rockets and mortars from June 20 to November 8, there were *still 106 attacks on Israel*.
> 
> I'll ask again, what do you think will happen if Gaza stops attacking Israel completely?


Gaza is not attacking Israel.  They are responding to Israeli aggression.  Which they have every right to do.  Israel started the violence.  Israel needs to stop it.  Israel must take the first step.

There was a 98% reduction in rocket and mortar fire and you can't even recognize that!


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> And yet, Gazans seem to find 100s of millions of dollars worth of concrete to build tunnels.


That's so they can survive.  

Stop starving them!


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> See?  And this is where you once again descend into irrationality which seems to stem from your need to claim Israel as evil and Arab Palestinians universally innocent.


I don't need to claim Israel as evil, I have no choice but to conclude that.  Who the fuck shoots at people fishing?  I also have videos of them shooting at people farming.



Shusha said:


> We know rockets and mortars are being smuggled into Gaza, or being made in Gaza.


So what.  They have a right to defend themselves.



Shusha said:


> We know that the 'fishermen' in question were smuggling in a large amount of liquid fiberglass.


No we don't know that.



Shusha said:


> We know that liquid fiberglass is used to make rockets.


Then explain how it is done.



Shusha said:


> We know that the 'fishermen' admitted to this as its intended use.


We know that Israeli authorities said they said that.



Shusha said:


> AND YET, somehow you create a cognitive disconnect which says:
> 
> The fishermen were really just fishing, not smuggling.


The fishermen being shot at in the video I posted, _were_ just fishing.



Shusha said:


> The fiberglass was obviously going to be used for something other than weapons.


I didn't say "obviously", I said it was "dual-use".



Shusha said:


> AND THEN, you create an additional evil for Israel:


I didn't create anything.  



Shusha said:


> The fishermen were tortured.


I didn't say that either.  I inferred Shin Bet has a history of torturing prisoners.  Just reading your posts makes it believable that they were tortured.  There is no humanity in your posts.  Just hatred.



Shusha said:


> And then you go on to say that Israel shoots at fishermen who are not involved in smuggling.  But in reality, Israel shoots only at those fishing boats who are 1.  Outside the blockade perimeter.  2.  and then do not obey instruction to turn back.  3.  and then do not obey warning shots.  4.  and then refuse to be boarded and have their cargo checked.  5.  and then attempt escape.


You have no right restricting their fishing.  And you are absolutely evil shooting at people who fish.



Shusha said:


> Let me ask you another question.  What do you think will happen if Israel ends the sea blockade?


Israel would be in a better place.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Billo_Really
> 
> Did you happen to watch Einat Wilf's video I posted?  You are the perfect example of West-splaining.


No I did not.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Again, your cognitive disconnect is showing.
> 
> _The Palestinian Housing Minister announced on Sunday that 90 per cent of the houses destroyed by Israel during the 2014 military offensive against Gaza have been rebuilt, Safa News Agency has reported.  Source._


The only quotes from the minister is they rebuilt "...9,308..." homes and "...17..." apartment buildings.  We do not know if that constitutes 90%.

We also know from independent humanitarian organizations...

_According to systematic assessments conducted by international humanitarian organizations, the whole of Gaza’s civilian population has progressively suffered. International Monetary Fund (IMF)and World Bank reports show that *Gaza’s economy has been decimated. *Basic infrastructure and services such as education and healthcare, electricity supplies, and sanitation are also adversely affected. The U.N. reports that *90% of Gaza’s drinking water is not fit for human consumption*, and more than 60% of the population is dependent on humanitarian aid. _​


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> I’m afraid that acts of war / acts of Islamic terrorism carry consequences. There are consequences when your Islamic terrorist heroes wage gee-had attacks aimed at Israel.
> 
> Why do you believe that Islamic terrorists should not face consequences for their actions?


The acts of war started with Israel.  Gazans are just responding to Israeli aggression.


----------



## Billo_Really

This just in...

*Israeli Forces Kill 17-Year-Old With Live Fire as 40,000 Palestinians Mark 'Great March of Return' Anniversary*
_"Thousands of Palestinians in Gaza demand their basic rights even as Israeli snipers are waiting ready to gun them down."
_​Why Israel has to gun down children is beyond me.  And if things are so rosy in Gaza, then why are so many protesting their conditions?

_Tens of thousands of Palestinians gathered near the Israel-Gaza border fence on Saturday to mark the one-year anniversary of the weekly "Great March of Return" demonstrations and demand an *end to Israel's brutal occupation*.
_​I don't that sinks in to you inhuman Israeli homers.  So let me re-state that...

*Israel's brutal occupation*

*Israel's brutal occupation*

*Israel's brutal occupation*

Que pasa, mutha?
​


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Hamas charter is as valid to Islamic terrorists today as it was decades ago.
> 
> There’s a gee-had being played out at the Israeli border. Try paying attention.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the big lie you keep pushing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do give us a link to the updated Hamas Charter when it does say that the Charter's intent is NOT to take over the rest of Palestine, meaning Israel, by any means, where every Palestinian or Arab's duty is to fight to take the land back.
> 
> Link, article, exact words where they only want their right to return, or what is rightly theirs (what would that be ) a return which as I said, does not exist anywhere in the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is too easy...
> 
> *Hamas accepts Palestinian state with 1967 borders*
> _Khaled Meshaal presents a new document in which Hamas accepts 1967 borders without recognizing state of Israel.
> 
> While Hamas' 1988 founding charter called for the takeover of all of mandate Palestine, including present-day Israel, the new document says it will accept the 1967 borders as the basis for a Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital and the return of refugees to their homes._​_..._what you say, is a total farce.
Click to expand...

They're not getting Jerusalem as their capital.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> This just in...
> 
> *Israeli Forces Kill 17-Year-Old With Live Fire as 40,000 Palestinians Mark 'Great March of Return' Anniversary*
> _"Thousands of Palestinians in Gaza demand their basic rights even as Israeli snipers are waiting ready to gun them down."
> _​Why Israel has to gun down children is beyond me.  And if things are so rosy in Gaza, then why are so many protesting their conditions?
> 
> _Tens of thousands of Palestinians gathered near the Israel-Gaza border fence on Saturday to mark the one-year anniversary of the weekly "Great March of Return" demonstrations and demand an *end to Israel's brutal occupation*.
> _​I don't that sinks in to you inhuman Israeli homers.  So let me re-state that...
> 
> *Israel's brutal occupation*
> 
> *Israel's brutal occupation*
> 
> *Israel's brutal occupation*
> 
> Que pasa, mutha?
> ​



That# all very melodramatic but a complete waste of bandwidth.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m afraid that acts of war / acts of Islamic terrorism carry consequences. There are consequences when your Islamic terrorist heroes wage gee-had attacks aimed at Israel.
> 
> Why do you believe that Islamic terrorists should not face consequences for their actions?
> 
> 
> 
> The acts of war started with Israel.  Gazans are just responding to Israeli aggression.
Click to expand...


Islamic terrorists attacking Israel will cause Israelis to respond.

What part of that confuses you?


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, your cognitive disconnect is showing.
> 
> _The Palestinian Housing Minister announced on Sunday that 90 per cent of the houses destroyed by Israel during the 2014 military offensive against Gaza have been rebuilt, Safa News Agency has reported.  Source._
> 
> 
> 
> The only quotes from the minister is they rebuilt "...9,308..." homes and "...17..." apartment buildings.  We do not know if that constitutes 90%.
> 
> We also know from independent humanitarian organizations...
> 
> _According to systematic assessments conducted by international humanitarian organizations, the whole of Gaza’s civilian population has progressively suffered. International Monetary Fund (IMF)and World Bank reports show that *Gaza’s economy has been decimated. *Basic infrastructure and services such as education and healthcare, electricity supplies, and sanitation are also adversely affected. The U.N. reports that *90% of Gaza’s drinking water is not fit for human consumption*, and more than 60% of the population is dependent on humanitarian aid. _​
Click to expand...


Forbes Says Hamas Second-Richest Terror Group In World


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really
> 
> Did you happen to watch Einat Wilf's video I posted?  You are the perfect example of West-splaining.
> 
> 
> 
> No I did not.
Click to expand...


It neatly explains some of our differences of opinion.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> This just in...
> 
> *Israeli Forces Kill 17-Year-Old With Live Fire as 40,000 Palestinians Mark 'Great March of Return' Anniversary*
> _"Thousands of Palestinians in Gaza demand their basic rights even as Israeli snipers are waiting ready to gun them down."
> _​Why Israel has to gun down children is beyond me.  And if things are so rosy in Gaza, then why are so many protesting their conditions?
> 
> _Tens of thousands of Palestinians gathered near the Israel-Gaza border fence on Saturday to mark the one-year anniversary of the weekly "Great March of Return" demonstrations and demand an *end to Israel's brutal occupation*.
> _​I don't that sinks in to you inhuman Israeli homers.  So let me re-state that...
> 
> *Israel's brutal occupation*
> 
> *Israel's brutal occupation*
> 
> *Israel's brutal occupation*
> 
> Que pasa, mutha?
> ​




Westsplaining. 

The demonstrators are not demanding an end to the blockade. They are demanding to flood Israel with six million Arabs, many of whom actively desire to murder Jews, by their own words. 

Also I'm not entirely sure how you would suggest to Israel that they check ID with a sniper rifle. Although, Hamas could certainly prevent children from engaging in the protest and are, according to international law, absolutely obligated to do so.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just to remind:  the original question was, What do you think would happen if Gaza stopped attacking Israel completely.  You responded with, Israel will keep attacking her anyway.
> 
> But wait, during the time of the *ceasefire*, counting ONLY those rockets and mortars from June 20 to November 8, there were *still 106 attacks on Israel*.
> 
> I'll ask again, what do you think will happen if Gaza stops attacking Israel completely?
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza is not attacking Israel.  They are responding to Israeli aggression.  Which they have every right to do.  Israel started the violence.  Israel needs to stop it.  Israel must take the first step.
> 
> There was a 98% reduction in rocket and mortar fire and you can't even recognize that!
Click to expand...


You are just avoiding my question. What do you think  would happen if Gaza stopped attacking Israel completely?

This aggression that Israel started that you keep mentioning...Do you mean the blockade?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m afraid that acts of war / acts of Islamic terrorism carry consequences. There are consequences when your Islamic terrorist heroes wage gee-had attacks aimed at Israel.
> 
> Why do you believe that Islamic terrorists should not face consequences for their actions?
> 
> 
> 
> The acts of war started with Israel.  Gazans are just responding to Israeli aggression.
Click to expand...

You never give a date and details about how Israel started the aggression against Gaza.

Do you have articles, videos which would clarify this whole thing for us?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the link to the photo and what year was it?
> Are you sure it is Gaza and not Syria?
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go...
> 
> *Gaza destruction 'beyond description', says Ban
> *​...it was from 2014.
Click to expand...

Now, what exactly was in those homes that Israel had to fire against them?

Hidden rockets?  Military base?

Are you discounting all the mosques, schools, hospitals, homes where Hamas and Islamic Jihad hide and keep weapons, rockets, etc and actually hide in?

All of the above does become a military target according to the laws of Combat.


Of course I do not know the answer, but......

would it not be much better for both military groups to simply stay away from civilian centers and create a defense where homes, mosques, hospitals, schools, would not have to end up being targeted because both groups are using civilian areas in order to fire rockets into Israel from?

None of those houses in the photo had to be targeted.
If only Hamas and Islamic Jihad had not used those homes as military bases.


Actions have consequences  .


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> This just in...
> 
> *Israeli Forces Kill 17-Year-Old With Live Fire as 40,000 Palestinians Mark 'Great March of Return' Anniversary*
> _"Thousands of Palestinians in Gaza demand their basic rights even as Israeli snipers are waiting ready to gun them down."
> _​Why Israel has to gun down children is beyond me.  And if things are so rosy in Gaza, then why are so many protesting their conditions?
> 
> _Tens of thousands of Palestinians gathered near the Israel-Gaza border fence on Saturday to mark the one-year anniversary of the weekly "Great March of Return" demonstrations and demand an *end to Israel's brutal occupation*.
> _​I don't that sinks in to you inhuman Israeli homers.  So let me re-state that...
> 
> *Israel's brutal occupation*
> 
> *Israel's brutal occupation*
> 
> *Israel's brutal occupation*
> 
> Que pasa, mutha?
> ​


Not one Israeli in Gaza to make it a "brutal occupation" or an occupation of Any Kind.

But.....Palestinians protest Hamas, and this is what happens.

Imagine, all the money Hamas gets from Iran and still......they want more from the Gaza population.  Cruel, simply cruel.

In Gaza, Hamas Cracks Down On Palestinians Protesting Newly Imposed Taxes

Hamas Crackdown on Gaza Protests Instills Fear


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m afraid that acts of war / acts of Islamic terrorism carry consequences. There are consequences when your Islamic terrorist heroes wage gee-had attacks aimed at Israel.
> 
> Why do you believe that Islamic terrorists should not face consequences for their actions?
> 
> 
> 
> The acts of war started with Israel.  Gazans are just responding to Israeli aggression.
Click to expand...

Now, are you referring to the war of 1967 or what happened after Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005?

Be specific as to which one you are referring to, and be clear when the first aggression started, why and by whom.


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF tanks targeted a number of Hamas military posts in the Gaza Strip overnight Saturday.

The attack was in response for several launches that were identified from the Gaza Strip at Israeli territory earlier.

(full article online)

IDF attacks Hamas targets in Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

[This is what the deal proposes]

The agreement, brokered by Egypt, is intended to end the violent rots held weekly along the Gaza-Israel border and prevent rocket attacksagainst Israel.

This is what the Hamas-Israel agreement includes


[ However ]

Gaza border riots to continue next Friday


[ Stop or not stop ? Not stop seems to be the usual plan.  Mohammad is smiling ]


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  Billo_Really, Sixties Fan, et al,

To understand this, you have to understand that International Human Rights Law is _(nearly always)_ at odds with International Armed Conflict (IAC), as well as, Non-International Armed Conflict (NIAC).  BUT!  There is no one single international policy pertain to entities like HAMAS and associates.

Like it or not, HAMAS is a "terrorist organization;" with associate Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter.  This should include indeterminate combat support that trains and equips foreign Islamic groups Islamic Resistance Movement (AKA HAMAS). 



Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which shows how much you do know about blockades and International law.
> 
> But keep repeating that, since in your ears it sounds SO good.
> 
> 
> 
> No, you explain why Israel has jurisdiction in international waters, you fucking bitch!
Click to expand...


*(REFERENCES)*

*1997 • International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings •*
Creates a regime of universal jurisdiction over the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place. 

Article 14 • Arms Trade Treaty •
EnforcementEach State Party shall take appropriate measures to enforce national laws and regulations that implement the provisions of this Treaty.
Article 15 
States Parties shall cooperate with each other, consistent with their 4.States Parties are encouraged to cooperate, pursuant to their national laws, in order to assist national implementation of the provisions of this Treaty, including through sharing information regarding illicit activities and actors and in order to prevent and eradicate diversion of conventional arms covered under Article 2 (1)...

 Measures to prevent and combat terrorism - Section II - Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy in the form of a resolution and an annexed Plan of Action (A/RES/60/288) •
To in order to prevent and detect the movement of terrorists and to prevent and detect the illicit traffic in, inter alia, small arms and light weapons, conventional ammunition and explosives, nuclear, chemical, biological or radiological weapons and materials, while recognizing that States may require assistance to that effect.

*(COMMENT)*

Israel is endeavoring to intensify cooperation, as appropriate, in exchanging timely and accurate information concerning the prevention and combating of terrorism.

Israel's actions are focused on the apprehension and prosecution or extradition of perpetrators of terrorist acts, in accordance with the United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy and Action Plan.

Israel is stepping-up national efforts and bilateral, sub-regional, regional and international co-operation, as appropriate, to *improve border and customs controls*, in accordance with United Nations Global
 Counter-Terrorism Strategy and Action Plan.

You can't look at the issue   from just one angle and the Hostile Arab Palestinian perspective.  You have to expand your view.  You have to look at it from all sides.

AND we have not yet talked about the Israeli EEZ _(Exclusive Economic Zone)_ _(200 NM)_ → a national concern.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

It seems there is still some confusion regarding terms and definitions. 

There is an Islamic Terrorist Hudna and there is a ceasefire. A Hudna is a temporary lull in the gee-had that alllows the Islamic terrorist to re-equip and re-arm.  
*


IDF TANK STRIKES HAMAS POST IN RESPONSE TO EXPLOSIVE DEVICES THROWN

IDF tank strikes Hamas post in response to explosive devices thrown
*
3 minute read.
By ANNA AHRONHEIM,TAMAR BEERI


----------



## Sixties Fan

The IDF used a new system, the “Sha’aga” (“Roar”) to disperse the violent demonstrations that took place at the Gaza Strip border over the weekend in which tens of thousands of Arabs participated.

Journalist Amir Buchbut reported that the “Sha’aga” is a non-lethal riot dispersal system based on radio waves that was developed in Israel.

The soldiers who used the system during the violent demonstrations said that it was very effective.

(full article online)

New tool for dispersing riots: 'The Roar'


----------



## Hollie

When is a Hudna not a Hudna?


*Rockets from Gaza Strip hit Israel; 4 die at border protest*

*Rockets from Gaza Strip hit Israel; 4 die at border protest
*
By FARES AKRAMtoday





1 of 14
Medics and protester evacuate a wounded youth, who was shot by Israeli troops from near the fence of the Gaza Strip's border with Israel, while marking first anniversary of Gaza border protests east of Gaza City, Saturday, March 30, 2019. Tens of thousands of Palestinians on Saturday gathered at rallying points near the Israeli border to mark the first anniversary of weekly protests in the Gaza Strip, as Israeli troops fired tear gas and opened fire at small crowds of activists who approached the border fence. (AP Photo/Abdel kareem Hana)


----------



## Sixties Fan

Col. Richard Kemp Accuses UN Gaza Inquiry of Aiding Hamas


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> They're not getting Jerusalem as their capital.


East Jerusalem is not Israeli property and it will never be Israeli property.  You cannot acquire land at the point of a gun.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> That# all very melodramatic but a complete waste of bandwidth.


Care to explain why?


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Islamic terrorists attacking Israel will cause Israelis to respond.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?


What makes you think I'm confused?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're not getting Jerusalem as their capital.
> 
> 
> 
> East Jerusalem is not Israeli property and it will never be Israeli property.  You cannot acquire land at the point of a gun.
Click to expand...

The Jordanians did, and wanted to annex it to the other 78% they got illegally from the British, just because the British liked Jews less than they did Arabs.  And they wanted something for giving the Hashemites such a huge present after the Hashemites got kicked out of their ancient Arabian land AT GUN POINT  by the Saudi Clan.

Jerusalem IS the Capital of Israel and will continue to be, ALL of it.
It has been for 3000 years.

What else do you have?


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Forbes Says Hamas Second-Richest Terror Group In World


So what!  Israel gets billions of dollars worth of aid from the US every year.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> It neatly explains some of our differences of opinion.


Give me a link to the video and I will give it a view.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Forbes Says Hamas Second-Richest Terror Group In World
> 
> 
> 
> So what!  Israel gets billions of dollars worth of aid from the US every year.
Click to expand...


Lots of countries get US aid. We have strategic alliances with Israel. Not so much with Islamic terrorists. 

As usual, you’re befuddled by the context. Hamas is an islamic terrorist syndicate, one of several, that is alleged to be a government. They are the beneficiaries of a UN sponsored welfare scam that generates incredible wealth for an islsmic terrorist franchise.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorists attacking Israel will cause Israelis to respond.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think I'm confused?
Click to expand...


Your profound confusion,


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Forbes Says Hamas Second-Richest Terror Group In World
> 
> 
> 
> So what!  Israel gets billions of dollars worth of aid from the US every year.
Click to expand...

The money which the US lends to Israel does not end up in the Government's pocket.  It is for many other things, which also help the US.
You and many others have a very wrong idea of the US  "giving" money to Israel for nothing.
--------------------
The U.S.-Israeli alliance has paved the way for the countries to cooperate on far more than just traditional security issues. In part because of the long-standing political and security relationship between the United States and Israel, most Israelis know the United States and harbor positive feelings toward it. Israeli companies looking for a global market for their products have often viewed their American counterparts as partners of choice. So today, Israeli civilian technological innovations are helping the United States maintain its economic competitiveness, promote sustainable development, and address a range of non-military security challenges.

Dozens of leading U.S. companies have set up technology incubators in Israel to take advantage of the country's penchant for new ideas, which is why Bill Gates observed in 2006 that the "innovation going on in Israel is critical to the future of the technology business." Likewise, Israeli high-tech firms often turn to U.S. companies as partners for joint production and marketing opportunities in the United States and elsewhere, creating tens of thousands of American jobs. And although Israelis make up just three percent of the population of the Middle East, in 2011 Israel was the destination of 25 percent of all U.S. exports to the region, having recently eclipsed Saudi Arabia as the top market there for American products.

U.S. companies' substantial cooperation with Israel on information technology has been crucial to Silicon Valley's success. At Intel's research and development centers in Israel, engineers have designed many of the company's most successful microprocessors, accounting for some 40 percent of the firm's revenues last year. If you've made a secure financial transaction on the Internet, sent an instant message, or bought something using PayPal, you can thank Israeli IT researchers.

Friends with Benefits: Why the U.S.-Israeli Alliance Is Good for America
------------

The U.S.-Israel alliance is expansive. Pro-Israel advocates understand that the alliance contributes to America’s security and its position as a moral, democratic leader in the world. Decades of polling show Americans outside the foreign policy establishment support Israel because of the democratic, liberal values shared by our two nations. But the alliance is much deeper than that. As of December 2015, according to the World Bank, Israel is the 37th largest economy in the world by gross domestic product (GDP), an extraordinary accomplishment for such a young and perpetually beleaguered nation. But last year Israel was also America’s 23rd largest trade partner. From Israel, America receives unusually high amounts of investment; helpful and profitable technologies and services; and advancements in science, agriculture, the environment, and healthcare that improve the quality of and, in some cases, quite literally save our lives. Our exports to Israel create jobs in America. Through Israeli innovations and collaboration, our scientists and medical professionals become smarter and more effective at their jobs, and our agriculture and environmental sectors become more efficient and productive. The impact of the alliance is as wide as it is deep.

Israel Gives Much More to the U.S. Economy Than You Imagined - The Tower


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're not getting Jerusalem as their capital.
> 
> 
> 
> East Jerusalem is not Israeli property and it will never be Israeli property.  You cannot acquire land at the point of a gun.
Click to expand...


The civil war fought by Hamas and Fatah did that.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Westsplaining.
> 
> The demonstrators are not demanding an end to the blockade. They are demanding to flood Israel with six million Arabs, many of whom actively desire to murder Jews, by their own words.
> 
> Also I'm not entirely sure how you would suggest to Israel that they check ID with a sniper rifle. Although, Hamas could certainly prevent children from engaging in the protest and are, according to international law, absolutely obligated to do so.


A 14 year old kid was just looking for work and you shot him!  

_Last month, a 14-year-old Palestinian from Gaza, Hasan Shalabi, was fatally shot in the chest by an Israeli sniper. He had been looking for work and food for his family when he became one of dozens of children killed by the Israeli army during the Great March of Return protests._​
You shot another Palestinian in the back of the head when he was just smoking a cigarette.  You shot a first responder in the chest while giving care to the wounded.  And you shot a reporter wearing a large yellow vest indicating he was a member of the media.  You and your country are sick people. You make up these bullshit lies just so you can murder innocent, peaceful, unarmed Palestinian's protesting the brutal occupation you are forcing them to live under.  

These people just want to go home, not kill Jews.

_One man, Hassan Hijazi from Jaffa, made it hundreds of kilometres to the coastal city before handing himself in to Israeli authorities.  _​If he wanted to kill Jews, he wouldn't have voluntarily turned himself in to Israeli authorities.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> It neatly explains some of our differences of opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> Give me a link to the video and I will give it a view.
Click to expand...


Dr. Einat Wilf speaking about Westsplaining.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> You are just avoiding my question. What do you think  would happen if Gaza stopped attacking Israel completely?


You would just move the goal posts and make up another excuse to maintain the siege, because the bottom line is, you do not want peace.



Shusha said:


> This aggression that Israel started that you keep mentioning...Do you mean the blockade?


Don't give me this "deer-in-the-headlights" bullshit, you know what I am referring to.

_One year on, the Great March of Return protests have become a manifestation of ultimate despair. The effects of the siege and occupation have left more than half of Palestinians in Gaza living in abject poverty, many with serious mental and physical health conditions._​


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Westsplaining.
> 
> The demonstrators are not demanding an end to the blockade. They are demanding to flood Israel with six million Arabs, many of whom actively desire to murder Jews, by their own words.
> 
> Also I'm not entirely sure how you would suggest to Israel that they check ID with a sniper rifle. Although, Hamas could certainly prevent children from engaging in the protest and are, according to international law, absolutely obligated to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> A 14 year old kid was just looking for work and you shot him!
> 
> _Last month, a 14-year-old Palestinian from Gaza, Hasan Shalabi, was fatally shot in the chest by an Israeli sniper. He had been looking for work and food for his family when he became one of dozens of children killed by the Israeli army during the Great March of Return protests._​
> You shot another Palestinian in the back of the head when he was just smoking a cigarette.  You shot a first responder in the chest while giving care to the wounded.  And you shot a reporter wearing a large yellow vest indicating he was a member of the media.  You and your country are sick people. You make up these bullshit lies just so you can murder innocent, peaceful, unarmed Palestinian's protesting the brutal occupation you are forcing them to live under.
> 
> These people just want to go home, not kill Jews.
> 
> _One man, Hassan Hijazi from Jaffa, made it hundreds of kilometres to the coastal city before handing himself in to Israeli authorities.  _​If he wanted to kill Jews, he wouldn't have voluntarily turned himself in to Israeli authorities.
Click to expand...


Hasan Shalabi was looking for work in the Islamic terrorist gee-had zone?

Seems to me that a job interview would be difficult with thousands of peaceful, unarmed gee-had’ers throwing explosives and setting tires on fire. 

Applying for a job working the gee-had may have requirements I’m not familiar with.


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Westsplaining.
> 
> The demonstrators are not demanding an end to the blockade. They are demanding to flood Israel with six million Arabs, many of whom actively desire to murder Jews, by their own words.
> 
> Also I'm not entirely sure how you would suggest to Israel that they check ID with a sniper rifle. Although, Hamas could certainly prevent children from engaging in the protest and are, according to international law, absolutely obligated to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> A 14 year old kid was just looking for work and you shot him!
> 
> _Last month, a 14-year-old Palestinian from Gaza, Hasan Shalabi, was fatally shot in the chest by an Israeli sniper. He had been looking for work and food for his family when he became one of dozens of children killed by the Israeli army during the Great March of Return protests._​
> You shot another Palestinian in the back of the head when he was just smoking a cigarette.  You shot a first responder in the chest while giving care to the wounded.  And you shot a reporter wearing a large yellow vest indicating he was a member of the media.  You and your country are sick people. You make up these bullshit lies just so you can murder innocent, peaceful, unarmed Palestinian's protesting the brutal occupation you are forcing them to live under.
> 
> These people just want to go home, not kill Jews.
> 
> _One man, Hassan Hijazi from Jaffa, made it hundreds of kilometres to the coastal city before handing himself in to Israeli authorities.  _​If he wanted to kill Jews, he wouldn't have voluntarily turned himself in to Israeli authorities.
Click to expand...

You are so full of shit. If Palestinians wanted peace they would stop floating fire balloons. They would stop trying to sneak into Israel to go on a murder spree. Just stop.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> You never give a date and details about how Israel started the aggression against Gaza.
> 
> Do you have articles, videos which would clarify this whole thing for us?


Why do you ask questions when you don't give a shit about the answer?

*Timeline: the humanitarian impact of the Gaza blockade*
_2018 marks 51 years since the occupation of the Palestinian Territory and 11 years of the Gaza blockade. Both the occupation and the blockade affect every aspect of life for Palestinians – they dictate where they can live and study, and whom they can marry.

The blockade has devastated Gaza’s economy, caused widespread destruction and left most people largely cut off from the outside world. *Today, one million Palestinians in Gaza don't have enough food to feed their families*, despite receiving food assistance or other forms of support. _​


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're not getting Jerusalem as their capital.
> 
> 
> 
> East Jerusalem is not Israeli property and it will never be Israeli property.  You cannot acquire land at the point of a gun.
Click to expand...


There is no such thing as "East Jerusalem".  Jerusalem was divided only because of fierce fighting between the Israeli army and the Jordanian army (who had absolutely no legal right to it).  The final status of Jerusalem is to be negotiated as part of the final agreement between Israel and a future State of Palestine.  

There is no possible legal claim to be made that Jerusalem, in its entirety, is "not Israeli property".  Anyone who argues that it ALREADY belongs to a State of Palestine or that it is Arab land has fallen into a web of deceit formed by Arabs and supported by an international community which makes up law in order to demonize Jews.  

The Old City of Jerusalem contains the most sacred places of the Jewish people.  It has been the focus of the Jewish people's faith and history for thousands of years.  Israel is strong enough to keep it.  And she will.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Now, what exactly was in those homes that Israel had to fire against them?
> 
> Hidden rockets?  Military base?
> 
> Are you discounting all the mosques, schools, hospitals, homes where Hamas and Islamic Jihad hide and keep weapons, rockets, etc and actually hide in?
> 
> All of the above does become a military target according to the laws of Combat.
> 
> 
> Of course I do not know the answer, but......
> 
> would it not be much better for both military groups to simply stay away from civilian centers and create a defense where homes, mosques, hospitals, schools, would not have to end up being targeted because both groups are using civilian areas in order to fire rockets into Israel from?
> 
> None of those houses in the photo had to be targeted.
> If only Hamas and Islamic Jihad had not used those homes as military bases.
> 
> 
> Actions have consequences  .


The fact that you don't know what was in those homes, means you cannot target them.

When is Israel going to give up all of its weapons?


----------



## dannyboys

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Westsplaining.
> 
> The demonstrators are not demanding an end to the blockade. They are demanding to flood Israel with six million Arabs, many of whom actively desire to murder Jews, by their own words.
> 
> Also I'm not entirely sure how you would suggest to Israel that they check ID with a sniper rifle. Although, Hamas could certainly prevent children from engaging in the protest and are, according to international law, absolutely obligated to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> A 14 year old kid was just looking for work and you shot him!
> 
> _Last month, a 14-year-old Palestinian from Gaza, Hasan Shalabi, was fatally shot in the chest by an Israeli sniper. He had been looking for work and food for his family when he became one of dozens of children killed by the Israeli army during the Great March of Return protests._​
> You shot another Palestinian in the back of the head when he was just smoking a cigarette.  You shot a first responder in the chest while giving care to the wounded.  And you shot a reporter wearing a large yellow vest indicating he was a member of the media.  You and your country are sick people. You make up these bullshit lies just so you can murder innocent, peaceful, unarmed Palestinian's protesting the brutal occupation you are forcing them to live under.
> 
> These people just want to go home, not kill Jews.
> 
> _One man, Hassan Hijazi from Jaffa, made it hundreds of kilometres to the coastal city before handing himself in to Israeli authorities.  _​If he wanted to kill Jews, he wouldn't have voluntarily turned himself in to Israeli authorities.
Click to expand...

What are all those  things that explode when they land called? Who is launching them. Aimed at who? Intended to do what?
The Arabs put in with the Germans in both world wars with the express purpose to help exterminate every Jew on the planet!
The LON after the second war decided to teach the Arabs a lesson they will NEVER forget.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> _One year on, the Great March of Return protests have become a manifestation of ultimate despair. The effects of the siege and occupation have left more than half of Palestinians in Gaza living in abject poverty, many with serious mental and physical health conditions._​




Oh the despair™️, the poverty™️


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Not one Israeli in Gaza to make it a "brutal occupation" or an occupation of Any Kind.
> 
> But.....Palestinians protest Hamas, and this is what happens.
> 
> Imagine, all the money Hamas gets from Iran and still......they want more from the Gaza population.  Cruel, simply cruel.
> 
> In Gaza, Hamas Cracks Down On Palestinians Protesting Newly Imposed Taxes
> 
> Hamas Crackdown on Gaza Protests Instills Fear


You do not have to have a standing army in the territory to satisfy the definition of an occupation.  If you maintain "effective control" over the area, then that is an occupation.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are just avoiding my question. What do you think  would happen if Gaza stopped attacking Israel completely?
> 
> 
> 
> You would just move the goal posts and make up another excuse to maintain the siege, because the bottom line is, you do not want peace.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> This aggression that Israel started that you keep mentioning...Do you mean the blockade?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't give me this "deer-in-the-headlights" bullshit, you know what I am referring to.
> 
> _One year on, the Great March of Return protests have become a manifestation of ultimate despair. The effects of the siege and occupation have left more than half of Palestinians in Gaza living in abject poverty, many with serious mental and physical health conditions._​
Click to expand...

[ let us see you read the whole thing and answer each point ]

Do you realize that it is a "March of Return", not a march about our conditions are deplorable (that is something they did against Hamas ) ?
Do you realize that Gaza is their home?
Do you realize that what they are talking about is ALL of Israel for ALL of them to return to?
Do you realize that the population which comes to the border do so because they are being offered money to do so, and more if they are injured or killed? 
Do you realize that since 1920 the Arabs have refused to allow the Jews to achieve self determination via many riots, expulsions and then war, in 1948, 1967, 1973 and on.

Do you realize what the Palestinian map of Palestine means?






PA Education Minister presents child poet with plaque with map of “Palestine” replacing Israel - "Palestine" replaces Israel | PMW


Do you realize which area the Palestinians are referring to as being "Occupied"?

Is Hamas complaining about "conditions and occupation" in Gaza?

Or is Hamas and the population in Gaza complaining about Jews "occupying" what has been Israel since 1948/1967?

In other words, the people of Gaza are not being taught to make peace with Israel, to live alongside with Israel, they are being taught that Israel is THEIR home, regardless of how many actually were told to leave by their leaders, or  expelled from their aggression against Israel because of the 1948 war.


That is what they are rioting about, that is what they are marching for.

RETURN ......to Israel.....where they will take over and turn Israel into another Arab/Muslim majority State....unless they have given up on the Caliphate.

The conditions in Gaza are brought up by what Hamas forces on the population, especially the poor one which has no power and are also against the continues attacks on Israel in their name.

As I put it before, we are not going to see Hamas or Islamic Jihad hide in their own mansions, at the malls, by the olympic pool, or any other very expensive places which are far away from the border with Israel.

They will hide, mostly, around the poor civilians, and hide rockets amongst the poor civilians, as they have always done, and there is plenty of video and photos on it, and international reporters who more than witness the Hamas behavior during the 2014 war.

The abject living condition on the poor is FORCED on them by Hamas, and nobody else.

You do not really believe that Israel is responsible for it.  You are simply crying fire on a crowded theatre and hoping that it will scare Israel, the US, or any Israel supporter to stop supporting Israel's right to defend itself from a people who are intent on destroying the country and kill all or most of its Jewish population.

They say so all the time, but you will not hear it.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Now, are you referring to the war of 1967 or what happened after Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005?
> 
> Be specific as to which one you are referring to, and be clear when the first aggression started, why and by whom.


Let's just say the current aggression started with Israel holding on to territories it seized during the '67 war and the Gaza blockade started during the mid-90's and was ratcheted up in 2007 after Hamas won the election in 2006.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not one Israeli in Gaza to make it a "brutal occupation" or an occupation of Any Kind.
> 
> But.....Palestinians protest Hamas, and this is what happens.
> 
> Imagine, all the money Hamas gets from Iran and still......they want more from the Gaza population.  Cruel, simply cruel.
> 
> In Gaza, Hamas Cracks Down On Palestinians Protesting Newly Imposed Taxes
> 
> Hamas Crackdown on Gaza Protests Instills Fear
> 
> 
> 
> You do not have to have a standing army in the territory to satisfy the definition of an occupation.  If you maintain "effective control" over the area, then that is an occupation.
Click to expand...

Then Egypt is also occupying Gaza, because they effectively control what comes and goes and who comes and goes.

Let us end Egypt's occupation of Gaza.


----------



## Billo_Really

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Billo_Really, Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> To understand this, you have to understand that International Human Rights Law is _(nearly always)_ at odds with International Armed Conflict (IAC), as well as, Non-International Armed Conflict (NIAC).  BUT!  There is no one single international policy pertain to entities like HAMAS and associates.
> 
> Like it or not, HAMAS is a "terrorist organization;" with associate Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter.  This should include indeterminate combat support that trains and equips foreign Islamic groups Islamic Resistance Movement (AKA HAMAS).
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which shows how much you do know about blockades and International law.
> 
> But keep repeating that, since in your ears it sounds SO good.
> 
> 
> 
> No, you explain why Israel has jurisdiction in international waters, you fucking bitch!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCES)*
> 
> *1997 • International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings •*
> Creates a regime of universal jurisdiction over the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> Article 14 • Arms Trade Treaty •
> EnforcementEach State Party shall take appropriate measures to enforce national laws and regulations that implement the provisions of this Treaty.
> Article 15
> States Parties shall cooperate with each other, consistent with their 4.States Parties are encouraged to cooperate, pursuant to their national laws, in order to assist national implementation of the provisions of this Treaty, including through sharing information regarding illicit activities and actors and in order to prevent and eradicate diversion of conventional arms covered under Article 2 (1)...
> 
> Measures to prevent and combat terrorism - Section II - Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy in the form of a resolution and an annexed Plan of Action (A/RES/60/288) •
> To in order to prevent and detect the movement of terrorists and to prevent and detect the illicit traffic in, inter alia, small arms and light weapons, conventional ammunition and explosives, nuclear, chemical, biological or radiological weapons and materials, while recognizing that States may require assistance to that effect.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel is endeavoring to intensify cooperation, as appropriate, in exchanging timely and accurate information concerning the prevention and combating of terrorism.
> 
> Israel's actions are focused on the apprehension and prosecution or extradition of perpetrators of terrorist acts, in accordance with the United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy and Action Plan.
> 
> Israel is stepping-up national efforts and bilateral, sub-regional, regional and international co-operation, as appropriate, to *improve border and customs controls*, in accordance with United Nations Global
> Counter-Terrorism Strategy and Action Plan.
> 
> You can't look at the issue   from just one angle and the Hostile Arab Palestinian perspective.  You have to expand your view.  You have to look at it from all sides.
> 
> AND we have not yet talked about the Israeli EEZ _(Exclusive Economic Zone)_ _(200 NM)_ → a national concern.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

By the same token, Israel is a terrorist organization.  The Likud Party has its roots in Irgun.  And Irgun was a Zionist terrorist group.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> The Jordanians did, and wanted to annex it to the other 78% they got illegally from the British, just because the British liked Jews less than they did Arabs.  And they wanted something for giving the Hashemites such a huge present after the Hashemites got kicked out of their ancient Arabian land AT GUN POINT  by the Saudi Clan.
> 
> Jerusalem IS the Capital of Israel and will continue to be, ALL of it.
> It has been for 3000 years.
> 
> What else do you have?


Conquer by conquest was outlawed at the end of WWII.  Saying it is okay for Israel to annex East Jerusalem, is like saying it was okay for Germany to annex Poland.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Lots of countries get US aid. We have strategic alliances with Israel. Not so much with Islamic terrorists.
> 
> As usual, you’re befuddled by the context. Hamas is an islamic terrorist syndicate, one of several, that is alleged to be a government. They are the beneficiaries of a UN sponsored welfare scam that generates incredible wealth for an islsmic terrorist franchise.


That's the big lie you're being paid to get people to believe.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Your profound confusion,


So you're not going to answer the question?


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now, are you referring to the war of 1967 or what happened after Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005?
> 
> Be specific as to which one you are referring to, and be clear when the first aggression started, why and by whom.
> 
> 
> 
> Let's just say the current aggression started with Israel holding on to territories it seized during the '67 war and the Gaza blockade started during the mid-90's and was ratcheted up in 2007 after Hamas won the election in 2006.
Click to expand...


Let’s say that Islamic terrorist attacks also increased dramatically around the timeframe you describe.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> The money which the US lends to Israel does not end up in the Government's pocket.  It is for many other things, which also help the US.
> You and many others have a very wrong idea of the US  "giving" money to Israel for nothing.
> --------------------
> The U.S.-Israeli alliance has paved the way for the countries to cooperate on far more than just traditional security issues. In part because of the long-standing political and security relationship between the United States and Israel, most Israelis know the United States and harbor positive feelings toward it. Israeli companies looking for a global market for their products have often viewed their American counterparts as partners of choice. So today, Israeli civilian technological innovations are helping the United States maintain its economic competitiveness, promote sustainable development, and address a range of non-military security challenges.
> 
> Dozens of leading U.S. companies have set up technology incubators in Israel to take advantage of the country's penchant for new ideas, which is why Bill Gates observed in 2006 that the "innovation going on in Israel is critical to the future of the technology business." Likewise, Israeli high-tech firms often turn to U.S. companies as partners for joint production and marketing opportunities in the United States and elsewhere, creating tens of thousands of American jobs. And although Israelis make up just three percent of the population of the Middle East, in 2011 Israel was the destination of 25 percent of all U.S. exports to the region, having recently eclipsed Saudi Arabia as the top market there for American products.
> 
> U.S. companies' substantial cooperation with Israel on information technology has been crucial to Silicon Valley's success. At Intel's research and development centers in Israel, engineers have designed many of the company's most successful microprocessors, accounting for some 40 percent of the firm's revenues last year. If you've made a secure financial transaction on the Internet, sent an instant message, or bought something using PayPal, you can thank Israeli IT researchers.
> 
> Friends with Benefits: Why the U.S.-Israeli Alliance Is Good for America
> ------------
> 
> The U.S.-Israel alliance is expansive. Pro-Israel advocates understand that the alliance contributes to America’s security and its position as a moral, democratic leader in the world. Decades of polling show Americans outside the foreign policy establishment support Israel because of the democratic, liberal values shared by our two nations. But the alliance is much deeper than that. As of December 2015, according to the World Bank, Israel is the 37th largest economy in the world by gross domestic product (GDP), an extraordinary accomplishment for such a young and perpetually beleaguered nation. But last year Israel was also America’s 23rd largest trade partner. From Israel, America receives unusually high amounts of investment; helpful and profitable technologies and services; and advancements in science, agriculture, the environment, and healthcare that improve the quality of and, in some cases, quite literally save our lives. Our exports to Israel create jobs in America. Through Israeli innovations and collaboration, our scientists and medical professionals become smarter and more effective at their jobs, and our agriculture and environmental sectors become more efficient and productive. The impact of the alliance is as wide as it is deep.
> 
> Israel Gives Much More to the U.S. Economy Than You Imagined - The Tower


The money from the US is used to commit war crimes.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your profound confusion,
> 
> 
> 
> So you're not going to answer the question?
Click to expand...

So, you’re not going to defend your claim?


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of countries get US aid. We have strategic alliances with Israel. Not so much with Islamic terrorists.
> 
> As usual, you’re befuddled by the context. Hamas is an islamic terrorist syndicate, one of several, that is alleged to be a government. They are the beneficiaries of a UN sponsored welfare scam that generates incredible wealth for an islsmic terrorist franchise.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the big lie you're being paid to get people to believe.
Click to expand...


Your conspiracy theories aren’t helpful.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jordanians did, and wanted to annex it to the other 78% they got illegally from the British, just because the British liked Jews less than they did Arabs.  And they wanted something for giving the Hashemites such a huge present after the Hashemites got kicked out of their ancient Arabian land AT GUN POINT  by the Saudi Clan.
> 
> Jerusalem IS the Capital of Israel and will continue to be, ALL of it.
> It has been for 3000 years.
> 
> What else do you have?
> 
> 
> 
> Conquer by conquest was outlawed at the end of WWII.  Saying it is okay for Israel to annex East Jerusalem, is like saying it was okay for Germany to annex Poland.
Click to expand...


So, what’s this Hamas charter thing all about then?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now, are you referring to the war of 1967 or what happened after Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005?
> 
> Be specific as to which one you are referring to, and be clear when the first aggression started, why and by whom.
> 
> 
> 
> Let's just say the current aggression started with Israel holding on to territories it seized during the '67 war and the Gaza blockade started during the mid-90's and was ratcheted up in 2007 after Hamas won the election in 2006.
Click to expand...

Let us just say that the territory Israel seized in 1967 had been totally occupied by the Hashemites/Jordan, since May of 1948.  And since Jordan wanted more territory to add to it, it joined the other Arab countries when they thought they were ready to attack Israel, as they did in 1948, to put an end to Israel as a country.

You are aware that territory conquered in a defense war, and Israel had actually asked Jordan to not enter in that war with Egypt and Syria.   Actions have consequences .

*Gamal Abdel Nasser* ramped up rhetoric against Israel and mobilized Egyptian forces in preparation for war. The war began on June 5, 1967, when Israel launched a preemptive assault against the Egyptian and Syrian air forces.

Six-Day War | Causes & Summary
---------------
Mexico's or Canada's military mobilize their forces to the US border, after many disputes and threats.  That is a declaration of war.  The US strikes first and wins some Mexican and Canadian territory because of it.

Tell me that the US would have to give the land back......for nothing with Mexico or Canada continuing to threaten and sending rockets over the border.
-------------------
Israel built the Israel and Egypt–Gaza Strip barrier between 1994 and 2005, as a security measure to stop the infiltration of terrorists, including suicide bombers, into Israel. The construction of a border fence was envisaged in the Oslo Accords, as was the control by Israel of all borders of the Palestinian territories. There are four border crossings through the barrier: the Kerem Shalom, Karni, Erez, and Sufa crossings. All goods bound for Gaza through Israel must pass through one of these crossings, and undergo security inspection before being permitted into Gaza.

Additionally, the Egypt-Gaza barrier was built underground by Egypt starting in 2009. The stated aim was to block smuggling tunnels. The Egyptian Border Police maintain a presence along the Egypt-Gaza border. The Rafah Border Crossing is the only lawful crossing point between Egypt and Gaza, and was manned by Palestinian Authority security forces and the European Union Border Assistance Mission Rafah.[21] All humanitarian supplies are transferred through Israel or Egypt via the land crossings after security inspection.

One year after the 2005 disengagement from the Gaza Strip by Israel, Hamas won the Palestinian legislative elections in January 2006, winning control of the Palestinian Legislative Council. Israel and the Quartet on the Middle East had stated that their continued aid to the PA under a Hamas government was conditional on Hamas' recognition of Israel, the disavowal of violent actions, and acceptance of previous agreements between Israel and the PA, including the Oslo Accords. When Hamas formed a government in March 2006 led by Ismail Haniya, refusing to accept these conditions, Israel and the Quartet stopped having any dialogue with the Palestinian Authority and especially any member of the Hamas government, ceased providing aid to the PA and imposed sanctions against the PA.[3]

In March 2007, Hamas and Fatah formed a PA unity government, also headed by Haniya. Shortly after, in June, Hamas took control of the Gaza Strip during the Battle of Gaza,[1] seizing government institutions and replacing Fatah and other government officials with Hamas members.[2] Following the takeover, besides other measures, Israel and Egypt closed the border crossings with Gaza, marking the start of the blockade of the Gaza Strip. At the same time, international relations and aid to the Fatah-led government in the West Bank resumed and the economic sanctions lifted.


Blockade of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia
-----------
Looks like the reasons for Israel and Egypt deciding on the blockade are very clear.
Not the population's fault, but Hamas.  How are we going to make Hamas change its policies?

For some strange reason, Fatah ought to be in power in Gaza, but since Hamas won the election, and there has not been any other .....they remain as the government in Gaza, not allowing Abbas to take over.

The best thing is to let Hamas have Gaza, and Abbas just have areas A and B, and let them both govern their territories, without taking it out on Israel, without demanding any right of return, which does not exist anywhere in the world.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Dr. Einat Wilf speaking about Westsplaining.


You can't have it both ways.  You can't point to the UN in regards to Israeli sovereignty, while at the same time saying UN resolutions do not give the right of return to Palestinians.  These people are descendents of the Palestinian's who were driven out of the area by Zionist terrorist groups like Irgun in 1948.  They have the right to return to their homeland.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'



Break out the gunships and hellfires.


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> You are so full of shit. If Palestinians wanted peace they would stop floating fire balloons. They would stop trying to sneak into Israel to go on a murder spree. Just stop.


If Israel wanted peace, they would end the occupation and stop breaking all the ceasefires.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> There is no such thing as "East Jerusalem".  Jerusalem was divided only because of fierce fighting between the Israeli army and the Jordanian army (who had absolutely no legal right to it).  The final status of Jerusalem is to be negotiated as part of the final agreement between Israel and a future State of Palestine.
> 
> There is no possible legal claim to be made that Jerusalem, in its entirety, is "not Israeli property".  Anyone who argues that it ALREADY belongs to a State of Palestine or that it is Arab land has fallen into a web of deceit formed by Arabs and supported by an international community which makes up law in order to demonize Jews.
> 
> The Old City of Jerusalem contains the most sacred places of the Jewish people.  It has been the focus of the Jewish people's faith and history for thousands of years.  Israel is strong enough to keep it.  And she will.


There isn't a single country on the planet that agrees with you.


----------



## Billo_Really

dannyboys said:


> What are all those  things that explode when they land called? Who is launching them. Aimed at who? Intended to do what?
> The Arabs put in with the Germans in both world wars with the express purpose to help exterminate every Jew on the planet!
> The LON after the second war decided to teach the Arabs a lesson they will NEVER forget.


 _"...when they land called?"_

What grade are you in?


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> [ let us see you read the whole thing and answer each point ]
> 
> Do you realize that it is a "March of Return", not a march about our conditions are deplorable (that is something they did against Hamas ) ?
> Do you realize that Gaza is their home?
> Do you realize that what they are talking about is ALL of Israel for ALL of them to return to?
> Do you realize that the population which comes to the border do so because they are being offered money to do so, and more if they are injured or killed?
> Do you realize that since 1920 the Arabs have refused to allow the Jews to achieve self determination via many riots, expulsions and then war, in 1948, 1967, 1973 and on.
> 
> Do you realize what the Palestinian map of Palestine means?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA Education Minister presents child poet with plaque with map of “Palestine” replacing Israel - "Palestine" replaces Israel | PMW
> 
> 
> Do you realize which area the Palestinians are referring to as being "Occupied"?
> 
> Is Hamas complaining about "conditions and occupation" in Gaza?
> 
> Or is Hamas and the population in Gaza complaining about Jews "occupying" what has been Israel since 1948/1967?
> 
> In other words, the people of Gaza are not being taught to make peace with Israel, to live alongside with Israel, they are being taught that Israel is THEIR home, regardless of how many actually were told to leave by their leaders, or  expelled from their aggression against Israel because of the 1948 war.
> 
> 
> That is what they are rioting about, that is what they are marching for.
> 
> RETURN ......to Israel.....where they will take over and turn Israel into another Arab/Muslim majority State....unless they have given up on the Caliphate.
> 
> The conditions in Gaza are brought up by what Hamas forces on the population, especially the poor one which has no power and are also against the continues attacks on Israel in their name.
> 
> As I put it before, we are not going to see Hamas or Islamic Jihad hide in their own mansions, at the malls, by the olympic pool, or any other very expensive places which are far away from the border with Israel.
> 
> They will hide, mostly, around the poor civilians, and hide rockets amongst the poor civilians, as they have always done, and there is plenty of video and photos on it, and international reporters who more than witness the Hamas behavior during the 2014 war.
> 
> The abject living condition on the poor is FORCED on them by Hamas, and nobody else.
> 
> You do not really believe that Israel is responsible for it.  You are simply crying fire on a crowded theatre and hoping that it will scare Israel, the US, or any Israel supporter to stop supporting Israel's right to defend itself from a people who are intent on destroying the country and kill all or most of its Jewish population.
> 
> They say so all the time, but you will not hear it.


I guarantee one day you will have your Eisenhower Moment.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> [
> Then Egypt is also occupying Gaza, because they effectively control what comes and goes and who comes and goes.
> 
> Let us end Egypt's occupation of Gaza.


Egypt controls the Rafah crossing.  That's it.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> So, you’re not going to defend your claim?


That was your claim, not mine.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as "East Jerusalem".  Jerusalem was divided only because of fierce fighting between the Israeli army and the Jordanian army (who had absolutely no legal right to it).  The final status of Jerusalem is to be negotiated as part of the final agreement between Israel and a future State of Palestine.
> 
> There is no possible legal claim to be made that Jerusalem, in its entirety, is "not Israeli property".  Anyone who argues that it ALREADY belongs to a State of Palestine or that it is Arab land has fallen into a web of deceit formed by Arabs and supported by an international community which makes up law in order to demonize Jews.
> 
> The Old City of Jerusalem contains the most sacred places of the Jewish people.  It has been the focus of the Jewish people's faith and history for thousands of years.  Israel is strong enough to keep it.  And she will.
> 
> 
> 
> There isn't a single country on the planet that agrees with you.
Click to expand...



In the words of Sam Kinison, "you're a lying cvnt"

The Philippines, the Czech Republic and Romania have all recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, as have Guatemala, Honduras, the Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau and Togo.

As a terrorist promoter, you lie as easily as decent people breath, but this IS the age of Google, it isn't hard to uncover that a scumbag like you IS lying...


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> In the words of Sam Kinison, "you're a lying cvnt"
> 
> The Philippines, the Czech Republic and Romania have all recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, as have Guatemala, Honduras, the Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau and Togo.
> 
> As a terrorist promoter, you lie as easily as decent people breath, but this IS the age of Google, it isn't hard to uncover that a scumbag like you IS lying...


Where's the link?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You never give a date and details about how Israel started the aggression against Gaza.
> 
> Do you have articles, videos which would clarify this whole thing for us?
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you ask questions when you don't give a shit about the answer?
> 
> *Timeline: the humanitarian impact of the Gaza blockade*
> _2018 marks 51 years since the occupation of the Palestinian Territory and 11 years of the Gaza blockade. Both the occupation and the blockade affect every aspect of life for Palestinians – they dictate where they can live and study, and whom they can marry.
> 
> The blockade has devastated Gaza’s economy, caused widespread destruction and left most people largely cut off from the outside world. *Today, one million Palestinians in Gaza don't have enough food to feed their families*, despite receiving food assistance or other forms of support. _​
Click to expand...

When you may choose the worst report on Gaza without giving any accountability to Hamas' actions......
Trucks loaded with food enter Gaza on a daily basis. The question would be WHY doesn't that food reach those "million Palestinians" who do not have enough to feed their families?  Where do the trucks and the food end up?
Hint:  Hamas would know


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Billo_Really, Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> To understand this, you have to understand that International Human Rights Law is _(nearly always)_ at odds with International Armed Conflict (IAC), as well as, Non-International Armed Conflict (NIAC).  BUT!  There is no one single international policy pertain to entities like HAMAS and associates.
> 
> Like it or not, HAMAS is a "terrorist organization;" with associate Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter.  This should include indeterminate combat support that trains and equips foreign Islamic groups Islamic Resistance Movement (AKA HAMAS).
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which shows how much you do know about blockades and International law.
> 
> But keep repeating that, since in your ears it sounds SO good.
> 
> 
> 
> No, you explain why Israel has jurisdiction in international waters, you fucking bitch!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCES)*
> 
> *1997 • International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings •*
> Creates a regime of universal jurisdiction over the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> Article 14 • Arms Trade Treaty •
> EnforcementEach State Party shall take appropriate measures to enforce national laws and regulations that implement the provisions of this Treaty.
> Article 15
> States Parties shall cooperate with each other, consistent with their 4.States Parties are encouraged to cooperate, pursuant to their national laws, in order to assist national implementation of the provisions of this Treaty, including through sharing information regarding illicit activities and actors and in order to prevent and eradicate diversion of conventional arms covered under Article 2 (1)...
> 
> Measures to prevent and combat terrorism - Section II - Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy in the form of a resolution and an annexed Plan of Action (A/RES/60/288) •
> To in order to prevent and detect the movement of terrorists and to prevent and detect the illicit traffic in, inter alia, small arms and light weapons, conventional ammunition and explosives, nuclear, chemical, biological or radiological weapons and materials, while recognizing that States may require assistance to that effect.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel is endeavoring to intensify cooperation, as appropriate, in exchanging timely and accurate information concerning the prevention and combating of terrorism.
> 
> Israel's actions are focused on the apprehension and prosecution or extradition of perpetrators of terrorist acts, in accordance with the United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy and Action Plan.
> 
> Israel is stepping-up national efforts and bilateral, sub-regional, regional and international co-operation, as appropriate, to *improve border and customs controls*, in accordance with United Nations Global
> Counter-Terrorism Strategy and Action Plan.
> 
> You can't look at the issue   from just one angle and the Hostile Arab Palestinian perspective.  You have to expand your view.  You have to look at it from all sides.
> 
> AND we have not yet talked about the Israeli EEZ _(Exclusive Economic Zone)_ _(200 NM)_ → a national concern.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> By the same token, Israel is a terrorist organization.  The Likud Party has its roots in Irgun.  And Irgun was a Zionist terrorist group.
Click to expand...

There is a huge difference between terrorizing people and wanting to scare them to get something which does not belong to you, as the Arabs have done since 1920, and what the Jews had to do to protect, defend themselves and eventually declare Independence which is something the Arabs insisted that the Jews should not have ON their OWN ancient homeland.

Defending one's territory against those who do not want you to have the freedom to have a country is very different from what the Arabs continue to do and VOW they will continue to do until Israel is destroyed.

ALL of the Mandate for Palestine was to become the Jewish State.
78% was given away to the Hashemites.  No terrorism against the Hashemites from the Jews

From 1920 to 1948, Arab terrorism against Jews to keep them from creating a Country.  You like to revert the whole thing.

From 1948 to 1973, several Arab countries attacking Israel to destroy it.  You revert the whole thing.

From 1973 till today, continued attacks by the Arabs, to scare, kill, destroy Israel with rockets, with BDS, with anything they can come up with.

Why?  Because according to many Muslims, once Islam conquers a land , it belongs to Islam forever.  Some Muslims cannot allow Jews to have a State.  Hamas is such one group of Muslims.
But you revert the whole thing.

What part of the Mandate do you believe the Jews have a right to?
How long, how wide, for how long?


----------



## Weatherman2020

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're not getting Jerusalem as their capital.
> 
> 
> 
> East Jerusalem is not Israeli property and it will never be Israeli property.  You cannot acquire land at the point of a gun.
Click to expand...




Billo_Really said:


> East Jerusalem is not Israeli property and it will never be Israeli property. You cannot acquire land at the point of a gun.



In which universe?  Definitely not this one.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dr. Einat Wilf speaking about Westsplaining.
> 
> 
> 
> You can't have it both ways.  You can't point to the UN in regards to Israeli sovereignty, while at the same time saying UN resolutions do not give the right of return to Palestinians.  These people are descendents of the Palestinian's who were driven out of the area by Zionist terrorist groups like Irgun in 1948.  They have the right to return to their homeland.
Click to expand...

Israel does not depend on the UN for its sovereignty.  That was granted by the League of Nations in the early 1920, along with Iraq, Lebanon and Syria getting the other Three Mandates.  Remember them?

There is NO such things as a Right of Return for ANY people, much less for the Palestinians who only want to flood Israel with Arabs and eventually become the majority and therefore dismantling Israel and doing away with it.

What sane country would agree to so many people to come to their country and changing everything that it is?
Are you aware of any?  Name it.

900,000 Jews were driven out of Arab controlled countries from 1948 on.  They are definitely NOT given the right of return by any of those countries, the same way as many Jews who survived the Nazi Holocaust were not allowed to return to their countries, much less their homes after 1945.

You keep inventing things as being a RIGHT for Palestinians, when that RIGHT does not exist for ANY other people on the planet, and it does not actually exist for the Palestinian Arabs, and much less to the descendants of those who were urged to leave by their leader, or expelled because they were fighting against the Jewish groups.

They were told the Jews would be defeated in 2 weeks.  Bad planning on the leaders' part.

Israel is NOT responsible for what the Arab leaders created:



Why they demand to continue to be refugees, when no other group continues to be called refugees, much less with all of its descendants added to the list?



Israel is NOT the Palestinian Arabs homeland.  Arabia is.
TranJordan is not the Hashemite Kingdom's homeland.  Arabia is.

RETURN  ALL of the Mandate for Palestine to its rightful owners. 
The Jewish People/Nation.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The money which the US lends to Israel does not end up in the Government's pocket.  It is for many other things, which also help the US.
> You and many others have a very wrong idea of the US  "giving" money to Israel for nothing.
> --------------------
> The U.S.-Israeli alliance has paved the way for the countries to cooperate on far more than just traditional security issues. In part because of the long-standing political and security relationship between the United States and Israel, most Israelis know the United States and harbor positive feelings toward it. Israeli companies looking for a global market for their products have often viewed their American counterparts as partners of choice. So today, Israeli civilian technological innovations are helping the United States maintain its economic competitiveness, promote sustainable development, and address a range of non-military security challenges.
> 
> Dozens of leading U.S. companies have set up technology incubators in Israel to take advantage of the country's penchant for new ideas, which is why Bill Gates observed in 2006 that the "innovation going on in Israel is critical to the future of the technology business." Likewise, Israeli high-tech firms often turn to U.S. companies as partners for joint production and marketing opportunities in the United States and elsewhere, creating tens of thousands of American jobs. And although Israelis make up just three percent of the population of the Middle East, in 2011 Israel was the destination of 25 percent of all U.S. exports to the region, having recently eclipsed Saudi Arabia as the top market there for American products.
> 
> U.S. companies' substantial cooperation with Israel on information technology has been crucial to Silicon Valley's success. At Intel's research and development centers in Israel, engineers have designed many of the company's most successful microprocessors, accounting for some 40 percent of the firm's revenues last year. If you've made a secure financial transaction on the Internet, sent an instant message, or bought something using PayPal, you can thank Israeli IT researchers.
> 
> Friends with Benefits: Why the U.S.-Israeli Alliance Is Good for America
> ------------
> 
> The U.S.-Israel alliance is expansive. Pro-Israel advocates understand that the alliance contributes to America’s security and its position as a moral, democratic leader in the world. Decades of polling show Americans outside the foreign policy establishment support Israel because of the democratic, liberal values shared by our two nations. But the alliance is much deeper than that. As of December 2015, according to the World Bank, Israel is the 37th largest economy in the world by gross domestic product (GDP), an extraordinary accomplishment for such a young and perpetually beleaguered nation. But last year Israel was also America’s 23rd largest trade partner. From Israel, America receives unusually high amounts of investment; helpful and profitable technologies and services; and advancements in science, agriculture, the environment, and healthcare that improve the quality of and, in some cases, quite literally save our lives. Our exports to Israel create jobs in America. Through Israeli innovations and collaboration, our scientists and medical professionals become smarter and more effective at their jobs, and our agriculture and environmental sectors become more efficient and productive. The impact of the alliance is as wide as it is deep.
> 
> Israel Gives Much More to the U.S. Economy Than You Imagined - The Tower
> 
> 
> 
> The money from the US is used to commit war crimes.
Click to expand...

You are a liar.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are so full of shit. If Palestinians wanted peace they would stop floating fire balloons. They would stop trying to sneak into Israel to go on a murder spree. Just stop.
> 
> 
> 
> If Israel wanted peace, they would end the occupation and stop breaking all the ceasefires.
Click to expand...

Again, you lie.
No occupation and it is not Israel breaking any ceasefires.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as "East Jerusalem".  Jerusalem was divided only because of fierce fighting between the Israeli army and the Jordanian army (who had absolutely no legal right to it).  The final status of Jerusalem is to be negotiated as part of the final agreement between Israel and a future State of Palestine.
> 
> There is no possible legal claim to be made that Jerusalem, in its entirety, is "not Israeli property".  Anyone who argues that it ALREADY belongs to a State of Palestine or that it is Arab land has fallen into a web of deceit formed by Arabs and supported by an international community which makes up law in order to demonize Jews.
> 
> The Old City of Jerusalem contains the most sacred places of the Jewish people.  It has been the focus of the Jewish people's faith and history for thousands of years.  Israel is strong enough to keep it.  And she will.
> 
> 
> 
> There isn't a single country on the planet that agrees with you.
Click to expand...

Why do you tell such lies?  
The world does not revolve the way you demand it to.

There are plenty of countries which do not agree with You.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> dannyboys said:
> 
> 
> 
> What are all those  things that explode when they land called? Who is launching them. Aimed at who? Intended to do what?
> The Arabs put in with the Germans in both world wars with the express purpose to help exterminate every Jew on the planet!
> The LON after the second war decided to teach the Arabs a lesson they will NEVER forget.
> 
> 
> 
> _"...when they land called?"_
> 
> What grade are you in?
Click to expand...

So sorry that the lack of a coma sent you on a spin.  You did understand what was written, but chose to simply not respond and attack.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ let us see you read the whole thing and answer each point ]
> 
> Do you realize that it is a "March of Return", not a march about our conditions are deplorable (that is something they did against Hamas ) ?
> Do you realize that Gaza is their home?
> Do you realize that what they are talking about is ALL of Israel for ALL of them to return to?
> Do you realize that the population which comes to the border do so because they are being offered money to do so, and more if they are injured or killed?
> Do you realize that since 1920 the Arabs have refused to allow the Jews to achieve self determination via many riots, expulsions and then war, in 1948, 1967, 1973 and on.
> 
> Do you realize what the Palestinian map of Palestine means?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA Education Minister presents child poet with plaque with map of “Palestine” replacing Israel - "Palestine" replaces Israel | PMW
> 
> 
> Do you realize which area the Palestinians are referring to as being "Occupied"?
> 
> Is Hamas complaining about "conditions and occupation" in Gaza?
> 
> Or is Hamas and the population in Gaza complaining about Jews "occupying" what has been Israel since 1948/1967?
> 
> In other words, the people of Gaza are not being taught to make peace with Israel, to live alongside with Israel, they are being taught that Israel is THEIR home, regardless of how many actually were told to leave by their leaders, or  expelled from their aggression against Israel because of the 1948 war.
> 
> 
> That is what they are rioting about, that is what they are marching for.
> 
> RETURN ......to Israel.....where they will take over and turn Israel into another Arab/Muslim majority State....unless they have given up on the Caliphate.
> 
> The conditions in Gaza are brought up by what Hamas forces on the population, especially the poor one which has no power and are also against the continues attacks on Israel in their name.
> 
> As I put it before, we are not going to see Hamas or Islamic Jihad hide in their own mansions, at the malls, by the olympic pool, or any other very expensive places which are far away from the border with Israel.
> 
> They will hide, mostly, around the poor civilians, and hide rockets amongst the poor civilians, as they have always done, and there is plenty of video and photos on it, and international reporters who more than witness the Hamas behavior during the 2014 war.
> 
> The abject living condition on the poor is FORCED on them by Hamas, and nobody else.
> 
> You do not really believe that Israel is responsible for it.  You are simply crying fire on a crowded theatre and hoping that it will scare Israel, the US, or any Israel supporter to stop supporting Israel's right to defend itself from a people who are intent on destroying the country and kill all or most of its Jewish population.
> 
> They say so all the time, but you will not hear it.
> 
> 
> 
> I guarantee one day you will have your Eisenhower Moment.
Click to expand...

Use more words, please  !!!!

What exactly happened with the "Eisenhower Movement " and in which way will it help the Arab Palestinians with their "Right of Return" and making their dream come true.....of destroying Israel?


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> You do not have to have a standing army in the territory to satisfy the definition of an occupation.  If you maintain "effective control" over the area, then that is an occupation.



Yep.  A perfect example of law as it is applied only to Israel.  No other country has unilaterally withdrawn from territory and is still deemed to "effectively control" it.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> You would just move the goal posts and make up another excuse to maintain the siege, because the bottom line is, you do not want peace.



Other descent into irrationality.  Why, oh why would the Jewish people, of ALL people (!) NOT want peace?


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Conquer by conquest was outlawed at the end of WWII.  Saying it is okay for Israel to annex East Jerusalem, is like saying it was okay for Germany to annex Poland.



All kinds of wrong in this paragraph.  Let's see if we can walk you through this.  

Germany and Poland are two separate states.  We all agree that one state can not take territory from another state by force.  

Jordan, then, had absolutely no right to hold the territories it held between 1948 and 1967 as it had "conquered by conquest" a territory which belonged to another state.  Jordan unilaterally ceded all claim to the territories it held in Western Palestine between 1948 and 1967.  

With me so far?  Jordan had and has no claim to the territory.  We agree?

In 1948, then, which States had a claim to that territory in Western Palestine?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> Then Egypt is also occupying Gaza, because they effectively control what comes and goes and who comes and goes.
> 
> Let us end Egypt's occupation of Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt controls the Rafah crossing.  That's it.
Click to expand...

Yes, Egypt does control the Rafa crossing.
Are you saying that you are not aware that Egypt does not allow anything into Gaza?
And that Egypt sometimes ends up keeping Arabs from Gaza from returning home for a long time.  Or does not let those from Gaza to go into Egypt, for any reason. 
How many days does it stay open?
------------
After the Israeli disengagement in 2005, the monthly average number of entries and exits through Rafah Crossing reached about 40,000. After the capture of Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit in June 2006, the crossing was closed 76% of the time and after Hamas' takeover of the Gaza Strip it was closed permanently except for infrequent limited openings by Egypt.[11]

From June 2010 to January 2011, the monthly average number of exits and entries through Rafah reached 19,000. After May 2011, when Egypt's President Hosni Mubarak was replaced with Mohamed Morsi, the number grew to 40,000 per month. When Morsi was deposed by the army in July 2013, the Crossing was again almost completely shut down.

In August 2014, for the first time since the start of the Gaza blockade in 2007 Egypt allowed the United Nations World Food Programme (WFP) to bring food through the Rafah crossing. It provided food to feed around 150,000 people for 5 days.[12] In 2014, an average of 8,119 exits and entries of people were recorded at the crossing monthly. In September 2015, it was circa 3,300, while the Gaza population numbered 1.8 million people.[11] Between 24 October 2014 and September 2015, the crossing had been opened for only 34 days.[13]

On 22 January 2015, Egypt closed the border crossing.[37] In March, it declared that it would only open the border crossing if the Palestinian side is staffed by Palestinian Authority employees under the full authority of the Presidential Guard and no Hamas personnel are present

Rafah Border Crossing - Wikipedia


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dr. Einat Wilf speaking about Westsplaining.
> 
> 
> 
> You can't have it both ways.  You can't point to the UN in regards to Israeli sovereignty, while at the same time saying UN resolutions do not give the right of return to Palestinians.  These people are descendents of the Palestinian's who were driven out of the area by Zionist terrorist groups like Irgun in 1948.  They have the right to return to their homeland.
Click to expand...


Did you watch the video?  Its UN WATCH, not the UN.  Do you know what UN WATCH is?  

The UN has nothing to do with Israeli sovereignty, other than that it has accepted Israel's membership.  UN resolutions to do not form international law and UN resolutions do not give the right of return to Arab Palestinians.  

1.  The refugees in Gaza ARE ALREADY in their homeland.  They never left.  They are internally displaced.  Not refugees by definition.  

2.  Descendants of "refugees" are not refugees.  That status is not passed down through generations.  

3.  There is no international law in the world which requires displaced people to return to the exact place, town or building that they were displaced from.  In fact, that is contrary to the point of IHL concerning (true) refugees.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> If Israel wanted peace, they would end the occupation and stop breaking all the ceasefires.



Israel believes (and I think she is right) that ending the blockade would result in an escalation of war.

THAT is the entire point I've been trying to make.  So here's the thing.  Let's assume that you are right and I am wrong and that the cessation of the blockade will lead to peace, goodwill and brotherhood between Israel and Gaza.  How are you going to convince Israel that this peace will happen?  Do you think massing hundreds of thousands of protesters at the border, armed with guns, grenades, knives, IEDs, firebomb balloons and stones is going to convince Israel of Gaza's peaceful vision of the future?

Do you see how that is irrational thinking?  Let's prove to Israel how peaceful we are!  With guns, grenades, knives, IEDs, firebombs and stones!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dr. Einat Wilf speaking about Westsplaining.
> 
> 
> 
> You can't have it both ways.  You can't point to the UN in regards to Israeli sovereignty, while at the same time saying UN resolutions do not give the right of return to Palestinians.  These people are descendents of the Palestinian's who were driven out of the area by Zionist terrorist groups like Irgun in 1948.  They have the right to return to their homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you watch the video?  Its UN WATCH, not the UN.  Do you know what UN WATCH is?
> 
> The UN has nothing to do with Israeli sovereignty, other than that it has accepted Israel's membership.  UN resolutions to do not form international law and UN resolutions do not give the right of return to Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 1.  The refugees in Gaza ARE ALREADY in their homeland.  They never left.  They are internally displaced.  Not refugees by definition.
> 
> 2.  Descendants of "refugees" are not refugees.  That status is not passed down through generations.
> 
> 3.  There is no international law in the world which requires displaced people to return to the exact place, town or building that they were displaced from.  In fact, that is contrary to the point of IHL concerning (true) refugees.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> Did you watch the video? Its UN WATCH, not the UN. Do you know what UN WATCH is?


Yes, it is one of Israel's many propaganda organizations.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as "East Jerusalem".  Jerusalem was divided only because of fierce fighting between the Israeli army and the Jordanian army (who had absolutely no legal right to it).  The final status of Jerusalem is to be negotiated as part of the final agreement between Israel and a future State of Palestine.
> 
> There is no possible legal claim to be made that Jerusalem, in its entirety, is "not Israeli property".  Anyone who argues that it ALREADY belongs to a State of Palestine or that it is Arab land has fallen into a web of deceit formed by Arabs and supported by an international community which makes up law in order to demonize Jews.
> 
> The Old City of Jerusalem contains the most sacred places of the Jewish people.  It has been the focus of the Jewish people's faith and history for thousands of years.  Israel is strong enough to keep it.  And she will.
> 
> 
> 
> There isn't a single country on the planet that agrees with you.
Click to expand...


Fortunately, international law is not subject to popular vote.  

Oslo Accords:

_CHAPTER 3 - LEGAL AFFAIRS

ARTICLE XVII
Jurisdiction

1. In accordance with the DOP, the jurisdiction of the Council will cover West Bank and Gaza Strip territory as a single territorial unit, except for:

a.* issues that will be negotiated in the permanent status negotiations: Jerusalem, settlements, specified military locations, Palestinian refugees, borders, foreign relations and Israelis; *and_


----------



## Billy_Kinetta

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are so full of shit. If Palestinians wanted peace they would stop floating fire balloons. They would stop trying to sneak into Israel to go on a murder spree. Just stop.
> 
> 
> 
> If Israel wanted peace, they would end the occupation and stop breaking all the ceasefires.
Click to expand...


If the "Palestinians" wanted peace, they'd go back to Jordan.


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are so full of shit. If Palestinians wanted peace they would stop floating fire balloons. They would stop trying to sneak into Israel to go on a murder spree. Just stop.
> 
> 
> 
> If Israel wanted peace, they would end the occupation and stop breaking all the ceasefires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, you lie.
> No occupation and it is not Israel breaking any ceasefires.
Click to expand...


Billo argues that if there is only 106 rockets from Gaza during a ceasefire it doesn't break the ceasefire.  But if Israel responds even once, then its Israel which is breaking the ceasefire.  Irrational.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dr. Einat Wilf speaking about Westsplaining.
> 
> 
> 
> You can't have it both ways.  You can't point to the UN in regards to Israeli sovereignty, while at the same time saying UN resolutions do not give the right of return to Palestinians.  These people are descendents of the Palestinian's who were driven out of the area by Zionist terrorist groups like Irgun in 1948.  They have the right to return to their homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you watch the video?  Its UN WATCH, not the UN.  Do you know what UN WATCH is?
> 
> The UN has nothing to do with Israeli sovereignty, other than that it has accepted Israel's membership.  UN resolutions to do not form international law and UN resolutions do not give the right of return to Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 1.  The refugees in Gaza ARE ALREADY in their homeland.  They never left.  They are internally displaced.  Not refugees by definition.
> 
> 2.  Descendants of "refugees" are not refugees.  That status is not passed down through generations.
> 
> 3.  There is no international law in the world which requires displaced people to return to the exact place, town or building that they were displaced from.  In fact, that is contrary to the point of IHL concerning (true) refugees.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you watch the video? Its UN WATCH, not the UN. Do you know what UN WATCH is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, it is one of Israel's many propaganda organizations.
Click to expand...


You don't have to watch the video.  You don't Westsplain.  You know exactly what Arab Palestinians intend with their "March of Return".


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as "East Jerusalem".  Jerusalem was divided only because of fierce fighting between the Israeli army and the Jordanian army (who had absolutely no legal right to it).  The final status of Jerusalem is to be negotiated as part of the final agreement between Israel and a future State of Palestine.
> 
> There is no possible legal claim to be made that Jerusalem, in its entirety, is "not Israeli property".  Anyone who argues that it ALREADY belongs to a State of Palestine or that it is Arab land has fallen into a web of deceit formed by Arabs and supported by an international community which makes up law in order to demonize Jews.
> 
> The Old City of Jerusalem contains the most sacred places of the Jewish people.  It has been the focus of the Jewish people's faith and history for thousands of years.  Israel is strong enough to keep it.  And she will.
> 
> 
> 
> There isn't a single country on the planet that agrees with you.
Click to expand...

Single Arab country. We don't give a fuck what Arabs think.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  Billo_Really, Slyhunter, et al,

In pre-War 1967, who had effective control, assumed by military invasion, of East Jerusalem?



Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're not getting Jerusalem as their capital.
> 
> 
> 
> East Jerusalem is not Israeli property and it will never be Israeli property.  You cannot acquire land at the point of a gun.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Israelis did not achieve control over Jerusalem until 7 June 1967 _(Six-Day War)_.   East Jesuem was a sector of the city that came under the control and occupied by the Arab Legion _(an element of the* Arab League* Forces)_  during the Arab–Israeli War _(alla __1948)_, Israeli Paratroopers advanced to assume the Old City the Temple Mount and the Western Wall, in the wake of retreating Jordanian Forces.

East Jerusalem was NOT under Palestinian Control under the Ottoman Empire (a period of more than 700 years).  The Arab Palestinians did NOT have control of East Jerusalem _(after the surrender in the Armistice of Mudros - 1918)_.   The Arab Palestinians did NOT have control of East Jerusalem during the Mandate era period. The Arab Palestinians did NOT have control of East Jerusalem during the Arab–Israeli War _(alla __1948)_; nor did the Arab Palestinians have control of East Jerusalem after the Jordanian Parliament _(Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank and an equal number of Jordanians)_ unanimously approved a motion to constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and include the West Bank.

The Israelis did not assume control of the West Bank (including Jerusalem) from Arab Palestinians, but from the Jordanians.

Israel took nothing from the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank or Jerusalem.  After a millennium, the Arabs of Palestine in the West Bank did not have effective or sovereign control of a single inch of ground.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Billo_Really, Slyhunter, et al,
> 
> In pre-War 1967, who had effective control, assumed by military invasion, of East Jerusalem?
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're not getting Jerusalem as their capital.
> 
> 
> 
> East Jerusalem is not Israeli property and it will never be Israeli property.  You cannot acquire land at the point of a gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Israelis did not achieve control over Jerusalem until 7 June 1967 _(Six-Day War)_.   East Jesuem was a sector of the city that came under the control and occupied by the Arab Legion _(an element of the* Arab League* Forces)_  during the Arab–Israeli War _(alla __1948)_, Israeli Paratroopers advanced to assume the Old City the Temple Mount and the Western Wall, in the wake of retreating Jordanian Forces.
> 
> East Jerusalem was NOT under Palestinian Control under the Ottoman Empire (a period of more than 700 years).  The Arab Palestinians did NOT have control of East Jerusalem _(after the surrender in the Armistice of Mudros - 1918)_.   The Arab Palestinians did NOT have control of East Jerusalem during the Mandate era period. The Arab Palestinians did NOT have control of East Jerusalem during the Arab–Israeli War _(alla __1948)_; nor did the Arab Palestinians have control of East Jerusalem after the Jordanian Parliament _(Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank and an equal number of Jordanians)_ unanimously approved a motion to constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and include the West Bank.
> 
> The Israelis did not assume control of the West Bank (including Jerusalem) from Arab Palestinians, but from the Jordanians.
> 
> Israel took nothing from the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank or Jerusalem.  After a millennium, the Arabs of Palestine in the West Bank did not have effective or sovereign control of a single inch of ground.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are still confusing military control with sovereignty.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Billo_Really, Slyhunter, et al,
> 
> In pre-War 1967, who had effective control, assumed by military invasion, of East Jerusalem?
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're not getting Jerusalem as their capital.
> 
> 
> 
> East Jerusalem is not Israeli property and it will never be Israeli property.  You cannot acquire land at the point of a gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Israelis did not achieve control over Jerusalem until 7 June 1967 _(Six-Day War)_.   East Jesuem was a sector of the city that came under the control and occupied by the Arab Legion _(an element of the* Arab League* Forces)_  during the Arab–Israeli War _(alla __1948)_, Israeli Paratroopers advanced to assume the Old City the Temple Mount and the Western Wall, in the wake of retreating Jordanian Forces.
> 
> East Jerusalem was NOT under Palestinian Control under the Ottoman Empire (a period of more than 700 years).  The Arab Palestinians did NOT have control of East Jerusalem _(after the surrender in the Armistice of Mudros - 1918)_.   The Arab Palestinians did NOT have control of East Jerusalem during the Mandate era period. The Arab Palestinians did NOT have control of East Jerusalem during the Arab–Israeli War _(alla __1948)_; nor did the Arab Palestinians have control of East Jerusalem after the Jordanian Parliament _(Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank and an equal number of Jordanians)_ unanimously approved a motion to constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and include the West Bank.
> 
> The Israelis did not assume control of the West Bank (including Jerusalem) from Arab Palestinians, but from the Jordanians.
> 
> Israel took nothing from the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank or Jerusalem.  After a millennium, the Arabs of Palestine in the West Bank did not have effective or sovereign control of a single inch of ground.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are still confusing military control with sovereignty.
Click to expand...


Sovereignty requires control over territory.  Its literally a pre-requisite for sovereignty.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, I' m not confusing a damn thing.

◈*  IF* I say that Jordan had "effective control" _(a necessary condition for an Occupation under the Hague Regulation)_ over the West Bank, *THEN* you've consistently called that the use of "Military Force" _(your "under the Gun" by a foreign power analogy)_. And under "effective control" you contend that the Arab Palestinians _(not party to the conflict)_ could not freely exercise their self-determination.  And THEN you play the "I'm Confused Card."​
You equate "effective control" as exclusive meaning "occupation."  That would be incorrect.  And you equate 'effective control" with military coersion.  Your deduction is that the Arab Palestinian cannot execute "self-determination" if they are under "effective control." 

◈*  IF* I say that Jordan established sovereignty over the West Bank, *THEN* you'll claim that the Arab Palestinians were coerced _(until military governorship)_ into voting for the acceptance of Jordanian sovereignty. And that is not true "self-determination."​


P F Tinmore said:


> You are still confusing military control with sovereignty.


*(COMMENT)*

We need to look at the consequences.  

•  You want the "occupation to end" and the "withdrawal of all foreign" military _(IDF)_ → paramilitary _(Police)_ and Secutiry Forces _(Shin Bet, etc)_.  

•  That creates a vacuum both attracting both the politically and criminally corupt.  This vacuum, among other things, pulls-in the Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter, as the new entity that establishes "effective control."  

•This is essentially what happened in the Gaza Strip.  The Israel Element withdrew and the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) took advantage ot the situation and, by force, took control.  And HAMAS has allowed the associate groups _(Palestine Islamic Jihad)_ as well as foreign military influences _[Iran__ian Revolutionary Guards-Quds Force (IRCG-QF)]_.​
There is no true government in the world that does not maintain some sort of apparatus to maintain "effective control" in the sovereignty.  Nowhere is that more evident than in the Arab League.  Effective control is the aspect of a government that protects the government and the people _(sometimes)_.

Most Respectfully,
R
*


*


----------



## Sixties Fan

Reports are coming in that the fifth Gazan has been killed as a result of yesterday’s violent riots on the Gaza border. This fifth terrorist killed was only 13 years old, raised to be sent to the front lines by a genocidal society called “palestine“, with the encouragement of an educational system and parents that raise them to kill Jews. It makes us Israelis very sad that young kids are being used as violent terrorists, but we will do everything we have to in order to protect ourselves. It is up to the Arab Muslims to stop using their women, children and elderly as human shields and violent terrorists. 

The following video is just one of many showing these young kids being used in the Gaza border violence and then being shot by the IDF. It is not necessarily the 13 year old terrorist reported to have died from his wounds.

(full article and video online)

Fifth Terrorist Killed from Gaza Border Fence Violence is a 13-Year-Old Boy


----------



## The Original Tree

*Reading that despite ISIS being defeated, Russia has been airdropping more equipment in to Syria, and moving aircraft through Iran in to Syria.

Also Drought in Lebanon and Iran is distressing these two Nations.*


----------



## Sixties Fan

That's not to say that Israel should not be interested in finding ways to
improve the living conditions of the Gazans.

Just that in the absence of a departure from the current "quiet for
quiet"arrangement, any Israeli concession regarding the supply into the Gaza
Strip of dual use material - cement, rebar, other metal , fiberglass roving
and associated resin, etc., that can be used in the construction of
military facilities or weapons production - will ultimately cost Israel as
these materials are used to help prepare Hamas and others for war against
the Jewish State.

From a long run perspective, the most humanitarian step Israel could take
today would be to significantly reduce the security cost of dual use
materials by decimating the armories, weapons factories, etc. in the Gaza
Strip followed by a policy that any armories, weapons factories, etc.
discovered after the operation are also destroyed rather than recorded in a
"target bank".

(full article online)

IMRA - Saturday, March 30, 2019 Reality Check:  Goal of Gaza Rioters Is Expedite Growth of Military Capabilities - Not Improve Quality of Life


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> •This is essentially what happened in the Gaza Strip. The Israel Element withdrew and the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) took advantage ot the situation and, by force, took control.


Another bullshit Israeli talking point. Hamas was the elected government in office in Gaza and the West Bank.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> •This is essentially what happened in the Gaza Strip. The Israel Element withdrew and the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) took advantage ot the situation and, by force, took control.
> 
> 
> 
> Another bullshit Israeli talking point. Hamas was the elected government in office in Gaza and the West Bank.
Click to expand...


Was Hamas elected to throw opposition down from the rooftops?

Don't confuse Your liberal-infested bourgeois neighborhoods with the Caliphate.
You might have the same luxury cars and drool about the same teenage suicide bombers, but that's about where it ends.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OH, I' m not confusing a damn thing.
> 
> ◈*  IF* I say that Jordan had "effective control" _(a necessary condition for an Occupation under the Hague Regulation)_ over the West Bank, *THEN* you've consistently called that the use of "Military Force" _(your "under the Gun" by a foreign power analogy)_. And under "effective control" you contend that the Arab Palestinians _(not party to the conflict)_ could not freely exercise their self-determination.  And THEN you play the "I'm Confused Card."​
> You equate "effective control" as exclusive meaning "occupation."  That would be incorrect.  And you equate 'effective control" with military coersion.  Your deduction is that the Arab Palestinian cannot execute "self-determination" if they are under "effective control."
> 
> ◈*  IF* I say that Jordan established sovereignty over the West Bank, *THEN* you'll claim that the Arab Palestinians were coerced _(until military governorship)_ into voting for the acceptance of Jordanian sovereignty. And that is not true "self-determination."​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are still confusing military control with sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We need to look at the consequences.
> 
> •  You want the "occupation to end" and the "withdrawal of all foreign" military _(IDF)_ → paramilitary _(Police)_ and Secutiry Forces _(Shin Bet, etc)_.
> 
> •  That creates a vacuum both attracting both the politically and criminally corupt.  This vacuum, among other things, pulls-in the Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter, as the new entity that establishes "effective control."
> 
> •This is essentially what happened in the Gaza Strip.  The Israel Element withdrew and the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) took advantage ot the situation and, by force, took control.  And HAMAS has allowed the associate groups _(Palestine Islamic Jihad)_ as well as foreign military influences _[Iran__ian Revolutionary Guards-Quds Force (IRCG-QF)]_.​
> There is no true government in the world that does not maintain some sort of apparatus to maintain "effective control" in the sovereignty.  Nowhere is that more evident than in the Arab League.  Effective control is the aspect of a government that protects the government and the people _(sometimes)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> *
> 
> *
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> You equate "effective control" as exclusive meaning "occupation." That would be incorrect. And you equate 'effective control" with military coersion.


Military control of your own territory is sovereignty. Military control of territory that is no yours is occupation.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OH, I' m not confusing a damn thing.
> 
> ◈*  IF* I say that Jordan had "effective control" _(a necessary condition for an Occupation under the Hague Regulation)_ over the West Bank, *THEN* you've consistently called that the use of "Military Force" _(your "under the Gun" by a foreign power analogy)_. And under "effective control" you contend that the Arab Palestinians _(not party to the conflict)_ could not freely exercise their self-determination.  And THEN you play the "I'm Confused Card."​
> You equate "effective control" as exclusive meaning "occupation."  That would be incorrect.  And you equate 'effective control" with military coersion.  Your deduction is that the Arab Palestinian cannot execute "self-determination" if they are under "effective control."
> 
> ◈*  IF* I say that Jordan established sovereignty over the West Bank, *THEN* you'll claim that the Arab Palestinians were coerced _(until military governorship)_ into voting for the acceptance of Jordanian sovereignty. And that is not true "self-determination."​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are still confusing military control with sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We need to look at the consequences.
> 
> •  You want the "occupation to end" and the "withdrawal of all foreign" military _(IDF)_ → paramilitary _(Police)_ and Secutiry Forces _(Shin Bet, etc)_.
> 
> •  That creates a vacuum both attracting both the politically and criminally corupt.  This vacuum, among other things, pulls-in the Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter, as the new entity that establishes "effective control."
> 
> •This is essentially what happened in the Gaza Strip.  The Israel Element withdrew and the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) took advantage ot the situation and, by force, took control.  And HAMAS has allowed the associate groups _(Palestine Islamic Jihad)_ as well as foreign military influences _[Iran__ian Revolutionary Guards-Quds Force (IRCG-QF)]_.​
> There is no true government in the world that does not maintain some sort of apparatus to maintain "effective control" in the sovereignty.  Nowhere is that more evident than in the Arab League.  Effective control is the aspect of a government that protects the government and the people _(sometimes)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> *
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You equate "effective control" as exclusive meaning "occupation." That would be incorrect. And you equate 'effective control" with military coersion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Military control of your own territory is sovereignty. Military control of territory that is no yours is occupation.
Click to expand...


There's no part of Palestine, that wasn't vested with the sovereignty of the Jewish nation by international law.

No Arab nation had ever any sovereignty in that territory, and all potential source of any other sovereignty in that territory is solely a function of an agreement from the Jewish nation.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→ Sixties Fan, et al,

I don't believe that HAMAS had any expectation of how wildly successful the "March of Return" would turn out.

Other than to cause a headache for the Israelis and to test the Israeli response, I'm not sure that the original intent of the "March of Return" had anything close to the magnitude of the Arab Palestinian presentation.  It is almost as if it was spontaneous that went in a new direction. 

I don't think HAMAS expected the propaganda impact the "March" would have.  HAMAS had to just pause and take a moment to realize the enormity as to what had happened.  And whatever they had planned to do was overtaken by the new opportunity.



EXCERPT • Sixties Fan said:


> Goal of Gaza Rioters Is Expedite Growth of Military Capabilities - Not Improve Quality of Life


*(COMMENT)*

HAMAS _(as do most active Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Guerrillas, and Asymmetric Fighters)_ has, as essential opportunities to enhance their capabilities, to seize opportunities for various weapons or tools they need to make the next leap. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OH, I' m not confusing a damn thing.
> 
> ◈*  IF* I say that Jordan had "effective control" _(a necessary condition for an Occupation under the Hague Regulation)_ over the West Bank, *THEN* you've consistently called that the use of "Military Force" _(your "under the Gun" by a foreign power analogy)_. And under "effective control" you contend that the Arab Palestinians _(not party to the conflict)_ could not freely exercise their self-determination.  And THEN you play the "I'm Confused Card."​
> You equate "effective control" as exclusive meaning "occupation."  That would be incorrect.  And you equate 'effective control" with military coersion.  Your deduction is that the Arab Palestinian cannot execute "self-determination" if they are under "effective control."
> 
> ◈*  IF* I say that Jordan established sovereignty over the West Bank, *THEN* you'll claim that the Arab Palestinians were coerced _(until military governorship)_ into voting for the acceptance of Jordanian sovereignty. And that is not true "self-determination."​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are still confusing military control with sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We need to look at the consequences.
> 
> •  You want the "occupation to end" and the "withdrawal of all foreign" military _(IDF)_ → paramilitary _(Police)_ and Secutiry Forces _(Shin Bet, etc)_.
> 
> •  That creates a vacuum both attracting both the politically and criminally corupt.  This vacuum, among other things, pulls-in the Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter, as the new entity that establishes "effective control."
> 
> •This is essentially what happened in the Gaza Strip.  The Israel Element withdrew and the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) took advantage ot the situation and, by force, took control.  And HAMAS has allowed the associate groups _(Palestine Islamic Jihad)_ as well as foreign military influences _[Iran__ian Revolutionary Guards-Quds Force (IRCG-QF)]_.​
> There is no true government in the world that does not maintain some sort of apparatus to maintain "effective control" in the sovereignty.  Nowhere is that more evident than in the Arab League.  Effective control is the aspect of a government that protects the government and the people _(sometimes)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> *
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You equate "effective control" as exclusive meaning "occupation." That would be incorrect. And you equate 'effective control" with military coersion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Military control of your own territory is sovereignty. Military control of territory that is no yours is occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's no part of Palestine, that wasn't vested with the sovereignty of the Jewish nation by international law.
> 
> No Arab nation had ever any sovereignty in that territory, and all potential source of any other sovereignty in that territory is solely a function of an agreement from the Jewish nation.
Click to expand...

You need to read the Mandate.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OH, I' m not confusing a damn thing.
> 
> ◈*  IF* I say that Jordan had "effective control" _(a necessary condition for an Occupation under the Hague Regulation)_ over the West Bank, *THEN* you've consistently called that the use of "Military Force" _(your "under the Gun" by a foreign power analogy)_. And under "effective control" you contend that the Arab Palestinians _(not party to the conflict)_ could not freely exercise their self-determination.  And THEN you play the "I'm Confused Card."​
> You equate "effective control" as exclusive meaning "occupation."  That would be incorrect.  And you equate 'effective control" with military coersion.  Your deduction is that the Arab Palestinian cannot execute "self-determination" if they are under "effective control."
> 
> ◈*  IF* I say that Jordan established sovereignty over the West Bank, *THEN* you'll claim that the Arab Palestinians were coerced _(until military governorship)_ into voting for the acceptance of Jordanian sovereignty. And that is not true "self-determination."​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are still confusing military control with sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We need to look at the consequences.
> 
> •  You want the "occupation to end" and the "withdrawal of all foreign" military _(IDF)_ → paramilitary _(Police)_ and Secutiry Forces _(Shin Bet, etc)_.
> 
> •  That creates a vacuum both attracting both the politically and criminally corupt.  This vacuum, among other things, pulls-in the Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter, as the new entity that establishes "effective control."
> 
> •This is essentially what happened in the Gaza Strip.  The Israel Element withdrew and the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) took advantage ot the situation and, by force, took control.  And HAMAS has allowed the associate groups _(Palestine Islamic Jihad)_ as well as foreign military influences _[Iran__ian Revolutionary Guards-Quds Force (IRCG-QF)]_.​
> There is no true government in the world that does not maintain some sort of apparatus to maintain "effective control" in the sovereignty.  Nowhere is that more evident than in the Arab League.  Effective control is the aspect of a government that protects the government and the people _(sometimes)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> *
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You equate "effective control" as exclusive meaning "occupation." That would be incorrect. And you equate 'effective control" with military coersion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Military control of your own territory is sovereignty. Military control of territory that is no yours is occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's no part of Palestine, that wasn't vested with the sovereignty of the Jewish nation by international law.
> 
> No Arab nation had ever any sovereignty in that territory, and all potential source of any other sovereignty in that territory is solely a function of an agreement from the Jewish nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to read the Mandate.
Click to expand...

Will I find any mention of an Arab nation as sovereign?
Let's see You quote it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OH, I' m not confusing a damn thing.
> 
> ◈*  IF* I say that Jordan had "effective control" _(a necessary condition for an Occupation under the Hague Regulation)_ over the West Bank, *THEN* you've consistently called that the use of "Military Force" _(your "under the Gun" by a foreign power analogy)_. And under "effective control" you contend that the Arab Palestinians _(not party to the conflict)_ could not freely exercise their self-determination.  And THEN you play the "I'm Confused Card."​
> You equate "effective control" as exclusive meaning "occupation."  That would be incorrect.  And you equate 'effective control" with military coersion.  Your deduction is that the Arab Palestinian cannot execute "self-determination" if they are under "effective control."
> 
> ◈*  IF* I say that Jordan established sovereignty over the West Bank, *THEN* you'll claim that the Arab Palestinians were coerced _(until military governorship)_ into voting for the acceptance of Jordanian sovereignty. And that is not true "self-determination."​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are still confusing military control with sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We need to look at the consequences.
> 
> •  You want the "occupation to end" and the "withdrawal of all foreign" military _(IDF)_ → paramilitary _(Police)_ and Secutiry Forces _(Shin Bet, etc)_.
> 
> •  That creates a vacuum both attracting both the politically and criminally corupt.  This vacuum, among other things, pulls-in the Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter, as the new entity that establishes "effective control."
> 
> •This is essentially what happened in the Gaza Strip.  The Israel Element withdrew and the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) took advantage ot the situation and, by force, took control.  And HAMAS has allowed the associate groups _(Palestine Islamic Jihad)_ as well as foreign military influences _[Iran__ian Revolutionary Guards-Quds Force (IRCG-QF)]_.​
> There is no true government in the world that does not maintain some sort of apparatus to maintain "effective control" in the sovereignty.  Nowhere is that more evident than in the Arab League.  Effective control is the aspect of a government that protects the government and the people _(sometimes)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> *
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You equate "effective control" as exclusive meaning "occupation." That would be incorrect. And you equate 'effective control" with military coersion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Military control of your own territory is sovereignty. Military control of territory that is no yours is occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's no part of Palestine, that wasn't vested with the sovereignty of the Jewish nation by international law.
> 
> No Arab nation had ever any sovereignty in that territory, and all potential source of any other sovereignty in that territory is solely a function of an agreement from the Jewish nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to read the Mandate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Will I find any mention of an Arab nation as sovereign?
> Let's see You quote it.
Click to expand...

I don't recall sovereignty being mentioned at all.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Now you are getting caught-up in the semantic-tanglefoot _(barrier intended to impede the progress of an opponent)_.  IT is a neat trick and you have mastered it well.



RoccoR said:


> You equate "effective control" as exclusive meaning "occupation." That would be incorrect. And you equate 'effective control" with military coercion.





P F Tinmore said:


> Military control of your own territory is sovereignty. Military control of territory that is no yours is occupation.


*(COMMENT)*

Lost in the tanglefoot is the meaning:  The meaning being, whatever else it was called, it certainly was the case that the Arab Palestinians had NO power to influence the course of events; if you take away their voice and their Right to Self-Determination at the Parliamentary level. 



rylah said:


> There's no part of Palestine, that wasn't vested with the sovereignty of the Jewish nation by international law.
> No Arab nation had ever any sovereignty in that territory, and all potential source of any other sovereignty in that territory is solely a function of an agreement from the Jewish nation.


*(COMMENT)*

Well, this is certainly true for the last 1000 years.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Now you are getting caught-up in the semantic-tanglefoot _(barrier intended to impede the progress of an opponent)_.  IT is a neat trick and you have mastered it well.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You equate "effective control" as exclusive meaning "occupation." That would be incorrect. And you equate 'effective control" with military coercion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Military control of your own territory is sovereignty. Military control of territory that is no yours is occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Lost in the tanglefoot is the meaning:  The meaning being, whatever else it was called, it certainly was the case that the Arab Palestinians had NO power to influence the course of events; if you take away their voice and their Right to Self-Determination at the Parliamentary level.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's no part of Palestine, that wasn't vested with the sovereignty of the Jewish nation by international law.
> No Arab nation had ever any sovereignty in that territory, and all potential source of any other sovereignty in that territory is solely a function of an agreement from the Jewish nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, this is certainly true for the last 1000 years.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Sovereignty was in the hands of the citizens. The citizens were the people who had Ottoman/Turkish citizenship with provisions for immigrants to obtain citizenship. The immigrants would share sovereignty with the existing citizens. There was no special sovereignty for any one class of citizens.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, come on now.



P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Will I find any mention of an Arab nation as sovereign?
> Let's see You quote it.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall sovereignty being mentioned at all.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I don't recall anything under the Mandate for Palestine, being granted Sovereignty until 1946 (Jordan).

The reason "sovereignty" is not mentioned is because no Princial Allied Power wants to make the mistake of granting sovereignty without first, establishing self-governing institutions. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Sovereignty was in the hands of the citizens. The citizens were the people who had Ottoman/Turkish citizenship with provisions for immigrants to obtain citizenship. The immigrants would share sovereignty with the existing citizens. There was no special sovereignty for any one class of citizens.


*(COMMENT)*

Oh, this is wrong on so many levels, I just can't count them.

For a millennium, what we call today the MENA _(Middle East - North Africa)_ had no nation of people → in which the Sovereignty was in the hands of the citizens.  That is a 19th and 20th Century notion.  It is by no means universally accepted.  The "A" Mandates _(Syria and Lebanon, Palestine and Transjordan, and Iraq)_ were temporarily and conditionally _("provisionally recognized")_ considered as pre-independent states.  The "provisional recognition) is NOT the same thing as being sovereign.   The Mandatory, in its administration, held sovereignty in abeyance until such time as the Mandatory determined the territory could stand alone; or if some other accommodations needed to be made.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Sovereignty was in the hands of the citizens. The citizens were the people who had Ottoman/Turkish citizenship with provisions for immigrants to obtain citizenship. The immigrants would share sovereignty with the existing citizens. There was no special sovereignty for any one class of citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Oh, this is wrong on so many levels, I just can't count them.
> 
> For a millennium, what we call today the MENA _(Middle East - North Africa)_ had no nation of people → in which the Sovereignty was in the hands of the citizens.  That is a 19th and 20th Century notion.  It is by no means universally accepted.  The "A" Mandates _(Syria and Lebanon, Palestine and Transjordan, and Iraq)_ were temporarily and conditionally _("provisionally recognized")_ considered as pre-independent states.  The "provisional recognition) is NOT the same thing as being sovereign.   The Mandatory, in its administration, held sovereignty in abeyance until such time as the Mandatory determined the territory could stand alone; or if some other accommodations needed to be made.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Mandatory, in its administration, held sovereignty in abeyance until such time as the Mandatory determined the territory could stand alone; or if some other accommodations needed to be made.


It was still a shared sovereignty without distinction. Why do you think Britain was there for thirty years without creating a democratic government. That should not have taken more than ten years or so and they did not need the military to do it.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OH, I' m not confusing a damn thing.
> 
> ◈*  IF* I say that Jordan had "effective control" _(a necessary condition for an Occupation under the Hague Regulation)_ over the West Bank, *THEN* you've consistently called that the use of "Military Force" _(your "under the Gun" by a foreign power analogy)_. And under "effective control" you contend that the Arab Palestinians _(not party to the conflict)_ could not freely exercise their self-determination.  And THEN you play the "I'm Confused Card."​
> You equate "effective control" as exclusive meaning "occupation."  That would be incorrect.  And you equate 'effective control" with military coersion.  Your deduction is that the Arab Palestinian cannot execute "self-determination" if they are under "effective control."
> 
> ◈*  IF* I say that Jordan established sovereignty over the West Bank, *THEN* you'll claim that the Arab Palestinians were coerced _(until military governorship)_ into voting for the acceptance of Jordanian sovereignty. And that is not true "self-determination."​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We need to look at the consequences.
> 
> •  You want the "occupation to end" and the "withdrawal of all foreign" military _(IDF)_ → paramilitary _(Police)_ and Secutiry Forces _(Shin Bet, etc)_.
> 
> •  That creates a vacuum both attracting both the politically and criminally corupt.  This vacuum, among other things, pulls-in the Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter, as the new entity that establishes "effective control."
> 
> •This is essentially what happened in the Gaza Strip.  The Israel Element withdrew and the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) took advantage ot the situation and, by force, took control.  And HAMAS has allowed the associate groups _(Palestine Islamic Jihad)_ as well as foreign military influences _[Iran__ian Revolutionary Guards-Quds Force (IRCG-QF)]_.​
> There is no true government in the world that does not maintain some sort of apparatus to maintain "effective control" in the sovereignty.  Nowhere is that more evident than in the Arab League.  Effective control is the aspect of a government that protects the government and the people _(sometimes)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> *
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You equate "effective control" as exclusive meaning "occupation." That would be incorrect. And you equate 'effective control" with military coersion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Military control of your own territory is sovereignty. Military control of territory that is no yours is occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's no part of Palestine, that wasn't vested with the sovereignty of the Jewish nation by international law.
> 
> No Arab nation had ever any sovereignty in that territory, and all potential source of any other sovereignty in that territory is solely a function of an agreement from the Jewish nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to read the Mandate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Will I find any mention of an Arab nation as sovereign?
> Let's see You quote it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't recall sovereignty being mentioned at all.
Click to expand...


Actually it does, when talking about* re-constitution* of the Jewish homeland,
and development of self government.

Furthermore the US is obliged by its own Constitution to the obligations of that document,
and no Arab nation or sovereignty is mentioned anywhere in it.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> You need to read the Mandate.



Oh!  That's the funniest thing I've read in months here.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Military control of your own territory is sovereignty. Military control of territory that is no yours is occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's no part of Palestine, that wasn't vested with the sovereignty of the Jewish nation by international law.
> 
> No Arab nation had ever any sovereignty in that territory, and all potential source of any other sovereignty in that territory is solely a function of an agreement from the Jewish nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to read the Mandate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Will I find any mention of an Arab nation as sovereign?
> Let's see You quote it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't recall sovereignty being mentioned at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually it does, when talking about* re-constitution* of the Jewish homeland,
> and development of self government.
> 
> Furthermore the US is obliged by its own Constitution to the obligations of that document,
> and no Arab nation or sovereignty is mentioned anywhere in it.
Click to expand...

Palestine was the nation. The Jewish national home was that the Jews could get Palestinian citizenship. The Palestinians already had Palestinian citizenship.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's no part of Palestine, that wasn't vested with the sovereignty of the Jewish nation by international law.
> 
> No Arab nation had ever any sovereignty in that territory, and all potential source of any other sovereignty in that territory is solely a function of an agreement from the Jewish nation.
> 
> 
> 
> You need to read the Mandate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Will I find any mention of an Arab nation as sovereign?
> Let's see You quote it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't recall sovereignty being mentioned at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually it does, when talking about* re-constitution* of the Jewish homeland,
> and development of self government.
> 
> Furthermore the US is obliged by its own Constitution to the obligations of that document,
> and no Arab nation or sovereignty is mentioned anywhere in it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was the nation. The Jewish national home was that the Jews could get Palestinian citizenship. The Palestinians already had Palestinian citizenship.
Click to expand...


Yeah. But ultimately it doesn't matter. Why?  Because no matter which peoples (Jewish Palestinians or Arab Palestinians) theoretically held the territory and had rights to sovereignty over it in 1922, 1924, 1947, etc..* the reality developed over the next decades that there are two peoples each of whom want sovereignty and self-determination.

The STANDARD in the world in that case is partion so that each people can realize self-determination. Not only is that the standard, but it the only effective method of bringing peace. 

So why can't we just get ON with it?






(*it was the Jewish people, btw)


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's no part of Palestine, that wasn't vested with the sovereignty of the Jewish nation by international law.
> 
> No Arab nation had ever any sovereignty in that territory, and all potential source of any other sovereignty in that territory is solely a function of an agreement from the Jewish nation.
> 
> 
> 
> You need to read the Mandate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Will I find any mention of an Arab nation as sovereign?
> Let's see You quote it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't recall sovereignty being mentioned at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually it does, when talking about* re-constitution* of the Jewish homeland,
> and development of self government.
> 
> Furthermore the US is obliged by its own Constitution to the obligations of that document,
> and no Arab nation or sovereignty is mentioned anywhere in it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was the nation. The Jewish national home was that the Jews could get Palestinian citizenship. The Palestinians already had Palestinian citizenship.
Click to expand...

That Palestine too, was legally defined from day one, as the *re-constitution* of the Jewish nation, and no other beneficiary was mentioned.

Jewish political and national rights in that territory are recognized by international law, non-Jews have civil rights as a function of citizenship in that re-constituted Jewish national home, not the same as political rights or sovereignty.

Read the mandate.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Security sources on Monday afternoon reported "unusual activity" by the Islamic Jihad terror group near the Gaza-Israel border fence.

In light of the reported upcoming ceasefire agreement between Israel and Hamas, it may be that the Islamic Jihad is working to sabotage the agreement by carrying out attacks near the border.

(full article online)

Islamic Jihad planning a terror attack


----------



## Hollie

Three Arabs-Moslems killed at the border gee-had was a good number for Hamas. Greater numbers of Arabs-Moslems killed might have been a difficult position for them to justify. A few dead will be hand-waved off as just the cost of doing gee-had business. 

40,000 rioted on Gaza border in protests controlled by Hamas - Jewish Telegraphic Agency

*40,000 rioted on Gaza border in protests controlled by Hamas*
By Marcy Oster March 31, 2019 10:00 am
_






JERUSALEM (JTA) — Three Palestinian teens were reported killed during violent protests at the Gaza border by some 40,000 protesters marking the one-year anniversary of the Great March of Return, as Israeli military leaders praised Hamas for actively working to control the demonstrations._


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border 
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine was the nation. The Jewish national home was that the Jews could get Palestinian citizenship. The Palestinians already had Palestinian citizenship.


*(COMMENT)*

Palestine was NOT a nation/state until 2012.  In December 2012 the UN Decided to accord to Palestine non-member observer State status in the United Nations, without prejudice to the acquired rights, privileges and role of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO).

The Jewish National Home was a political construct within the State of Israel.  The State of Israel was a recommendation by the UN, accepted and formed.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestine Today has a heartwarming story (for Palestinians) about a mother who brought her daughter to Palestinian Land Day protests, exposing the toddler to danger.

When she was born, her mom named her after Reem Saleh Riyashi, a terrorist who killed 4 Israelis at the Erez crossing in 2004.

Riyashi left behind two small children of her own and a Hamas commander husband. She apparently decided to blow herself up because she was having an affair with another Hamas commander, and the news about the affair was starting to get out. Her lover convinced her to blow herself up and become a heroine rather than be exposed to the shame of being an adulteress.

Here's the role model for today's Palestinians:

(full article online)

Gaza mother names baby after terrorist, brings her to "protests" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> When you may choose the worst report on Gaza without giving any accountability to Hamas' actions......
> Trucks loaded with food enter Gaza on a daily basis. The question would be WHY doesn't that food reach those "million Palestinians" who do not have enough to feed their families?  Where do the trucks and the food end up?
> Hint:  Hamas would know


Don't change the subject.  The number of trucks going into Gaza has nothing to do with Hamas.

_The number of trucks carrying food into the Gaza Strip last week was the lowest it’s reached in several months. According to Defense Ministry figures, in the 24 hours after Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu announced the closure of the Kerem Shalom crossing to goods, 193 trucks entered the Strip, 171 of those carrying food, medicine and hygiene products._​A population that size needs at least 1200 trucks a day.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> There is a huge difference between terrorizing people and wanting to scare them to get something which does not belong to you, as the Arabs have done since 1920, and what the Jews had to do to protect, defend themselves and eventually declare Independence which is something the Arabs insisted that the Jews should not have ON their OWN ancient homeland.


Zionists declared independence over 70% of the land when they were only 10% of the population in 1948.



Sixties Fan said:


> Defending one's territory against those who do not want you to have the freedom to have a country is very different from what the Arabs continue to do and VOW they will continue to do until Israel is destroyed.


You are not defending when you are the occupier.



Sixties Fan said:


> ALL of the Mandate for Palestine was to become the Jewish State.
> 78% was given away to the Hashemites.  No terrorism against the Hashemites from the Jews


With the caveat you cannot infringe upon the inalienable rights of the existing non-Jewish population.



Sixties Fan said:


> From 1920 to 1948, Arab terrorism against Jews to keep them from creating a Country.  You like to revert the whole thing.


You drove out 750,000 of them through the use of Zionist terrorism.



Sixties Fan said:


> From 1948 to 1973, several Arab countries attacking Israel to destroy it.  You revert the whole thing.


Other than '73, Israel started every war it was in.



Sixties Fan said:


> From 1973 till today, continued attacks by the Arabs, to scare, kill, destroy Israel with rockets, with BDS, with anything they can come up with.


End the occupation and you will end the rocket attacks.

God bless the BDS!



Sixties Fan said:


> Why?  Because according to many Muslims, once Islam conquers a land , it belongs to Islam forever.  Some Muslims cannot allow Jews to have a State.  Hamas is such one group of Muslims.
> But you revert the whole thing.


You just keep pushing that big lie like there is no tomorrow.  You're full of shit.  You're a fuckin' liar.



Sixties Fan said:


> What part of the Mandate do you believe the Jews have a right to?
> How long, how wide, for how long?


The Mandate ended.  Zionists declared independence the day after.  You acted like a street gang after finding out the cops left the area and would not be coming back.


----------



## Billo_Really

Weatherman2020 said:


> In which universe?  Definitely not this one.


You cannot acquire land by force.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Israel does not depend on the UN for its sovereignty.  That was granted by the League of Nations in the early 1920, along with Iraq, Lebanon and Syria getting the other Three Mandates.  Remember them?
> 
> There is NO such things as a Right of Return for ANY people, much less for the Palestinians who only want to flood Israel with Arabs and eventually become the majority and therefore dismantling Israel and doing away with it.
> 
> What sane country would agree to so many people to come to their country and changing everything that it is?
> Are you aware of any?  Name it.
> 
> 900,000 Jews were driven out of Arab controlled countries from 1948 on.  They are definitely NOT given the right of return by any of those countries, the same way as many Jews who survived the Nazi Holocaust were not allowed to return to their countries, much less their homes after 1945.
> 
> You keep inventing things as being a RIGHT for Palestinians, when that RIGHT does not exist for ANY other people on the planet, and it does not actually exist for the Palestinian Arabs, and much less to the descendants of those who were urged to leave by their leader, or expelled because they were fighting against the Jewish groups.
> 
> They were told the Jews would be defeated in 2 weeks.  Bad planning on the leaders' part.
> 
> Israel is NOT responsible for what the Arab leaders created:
> 
> 
> 
> Why they demand to continue to be refugees, when no other group continues to be called refugees, much less with all of its descendants added to the list?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is NOT the Palestinian Arabs homeland.  Arabia is.
> TranJordan is not the Hashemite Kingdom's homeland.  Arabia is.
> 
> RETURN  ALL of the Mandate for Palestine to its rightful owners.
> The Jewish People/Nation.


Wake up.  You're dreaming again.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> You are a liar.


No I'm not.


----------



## The Original Tree

Transjordan is Palestine


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Again, you lie.
> No occupation and it is not Israel breaking any ceasefires.


And you must of had some bad won ton?


----------



## The Original Tree

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are a liar.
> 
> 
> 
> No I'm not.
Click to expand...

You have proven to be a Jew hating liar many times.

Do you not value your eternal soul?


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Use more words, please  !!!!
> 
> What exactly happened with the "Eisenhower Movement " and in which way will it help the Arab Palestinians with their "Right of Return" and making their dream come true.....of destroying Israel?


The Eisenhower moment is about you and average Israeli's.  Right after WWII ended, average German's refused to believe the Holocaust.  And they kept refusing to believe the Holocaust until Eisenhower made them bury the dead.

That is your fate.  I guarantee it.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Yep.  A perfect example of law as it is applied only to Israel.  No other country has unilaterally withdrawn from territory and is still deemed to "effectively control" it.


Don't give me this shit.  Israel is definitely not the victim.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Other descent into irrationality.  Why, oh why would the Jewish people, of ALL people (!) NOT want peace?


Don't change the subject.  We're not talking about Jews.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Use more words, please  !!!!
> 
> What exactly happened with the "Eisenhower Movement " and in which way will it help the Arab Palestinians with their "Right of Return" and making their dream come true.....of destroying Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> The Eisenhower moment is about you and average Israeli's.  Right after WWII ended, average German's refused to believe the Holocaust.  And they kept refusing to believe the Holocaust until Eisenhower made them bury the dead.
> 
> That is your fate.  I guarantee it.
Click to expand...

To guarantee something one needs to have integrity,
not sound like a crackpot at the end of cash, who will sell his mother for a dose.

Did Eisenhower also make the Brits bury the dead of Dresden?


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> All kinds of wrong in this paragraph.  Let's see if we can walk you through this.
> 
> Germany and Poland are two separate states.  We all agree that one state can not take territory from another state by force.
> 
> Jordan, then, had absolutely no right to hold the territories it held between 1948 and 1967 as it had "conquered by conquest" a territory which belonged to another state.  Jordan unilaterally ceded all claim to the territories it held in Western Palestine between 1948 and 1967.
> 
> With me so far?  Jordan had and has no claim to the territory.  We agree?
> 
> In 1948, then, which States had a claim to that territory in Western Palestine?


Israel seized these lands in the '67 war.  You cannot hold onto land seized in a war.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Yes, Egypt does control the Rafa crossing.
> Are you saying that you are not aware that Egypt does not allow anything into Gaza?
> And that Egypt sometimes ends up keeping Arabs from Gaza from returning home for a long time.  Or does not let those from Gaza to go into Egypt, for any reason.
> How many days does it stay open?
> ------------
> After the Israeli disengagement in 2005, the monthly average number of entries and exits through Rafah Crossing reached about 40,000. After the capture of Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit in June 2006, the crossing was closed 76% of the time and after Hamas' takeover of the Gaza Strip it was closed permanently except for infrequent limited openings by Egypt.[11]
> 
> From June 2010 to January 2011, the monthly average number of exits and entries through Rafah reached 19,000. After May 2011, when Egypt's President Hosni Mubarak was replaced with Mohamed Morsi, the number grew to 40,000 per month. When Morsi was deposed by the army in July 2013, the Crossing was again almost completely shut down.
> 
> In August 2014, for the first time since the start of the Gaza blockade in 2007 Egypt allowed the United Nations World Food Programme (WFP) to bring food through the Rafah crossing. It provided food to feed around 150,000 people for 5 days.[12] In 2014, an average of 8,119 exits and entries of people were recorded at the crossing monthly. In September 2015, it was circa 3,300, while the Gaza population numbered 1.8 million people.[11] Between 24 October 2014 and September 2015, the crossing had been opened for only 34 days.[13]
> 
> On 22 January 2015, Egypt closed the border crossing.[37] In March, it declared that it would only open the border crossing if the Palestinian side is staffed by Palestinian Authority employees under the full authority of the Presidential Guard and no Hamas personnel are present
> 
> Rafah Border Crossing - Wikipedia


Are you on crack?  Go back and read what I said.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Did you watch the video?  Its UN WATCH, not the UN.  Do you know what UN WATCH is?
> 
> The UN has nothing to do with Israeli sovereignty, other than that it has accepted Israel's membership.  UN resolutions to do not form international law and UN resolutions do not give the right of return to Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 1.  The refugees in Gaza ARE ALREADY in their homeland.  They never left.  They are internally displaced.  Not refugees by definition.
> 
> 2.  Descendants of "refugees" are not refugees.  That status is not passed down through generations.
> 
> 3.  There is no international law in the world which requires displaced people to return to the exact place, town or building that they were displaced from.  In fact, that is contrary to the point of IHL concerning (true) refugees.


I watched it and I heard that Israeli bitch talk a lot of shit.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Israel believes (and I think she is right) that ending the blockade would result in an escalation of war.
> 
> THAT is the entire point I've been trying to make.  So here's the thing.  Let's assume that you are right and I am wrong and that the cessation of the blockade will lead to peace, goodwill and brotherhood between Israel and Gaza.  How are you going to convince Israel that this peace will happen?  Do you think massing hundreds of thousands of protesters at the border, armed with guns, grenades, knives, IEDs, firebomb balloons and stones is going to convince Israel of Gaza's peaceful vision of the future?
> 
> Do you see how that is irrational thinking?  Let's prove to Israel how peaceful we are!  With guns, grenades, knives, IEDs, firebombs and stones!


This is not a war.  And the occupation is the reason for all the violence.


----------



## Billo_Really

Billy_Kinetta said:


> If the "Palestinians" wanted peace, they'd go back to Jordan.


They weren't from Jordan.  Why don't Zionists go back to Europe?


----------



## The Original Tree

No sane person should read anything you write.

It comes straight from the pit of Hell.





Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Egypt does control the Rafa crossing.
> Are you saying that you are not aware that Egypt does not allow anything into Gaza?
> And that Egypt sometimes ends up keeping Arabs from Gaza from returning home for a long time.  Or does not let those from Gaza to go into Egypt, for any reason.
> How many days does it stay open?
> ------------
> After the Israeli disengagement in 2005, the monthly average number of entries and exits through Rafah Crossing reached about 40,000. After the capture of Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit in June 2006, the crossing was closed 76% of the time and after Hamas' takeover of the Gaza Strip it was closed permanently except for infrequent limited openings by Egypt.[11]
> 
> From June 2010 to January 2011, the monthly average number of exits and entries through Rafah reached 19,000. After May 2011, when Egypt's President Hosni Mubarak was replaced with Mohamed Morsi, the number grew to 40,000 per month. When Morsi was deposed by the army in July 2013, the Crossing was again almost completely shut down.
> 
> In August 2014, for the first time since the start of the Gaza blockade in 2007 Egypt allowed the United Nations World Food Programme (WFP) to bring food through the Rafah crossing. It provided food to feed around 150,000 people for 5 days.[12] In 2014, an average of 8,119 exits and entries of people were recorded at the crossing monthly. In September 2015, it was circa 3,300, while the Gaza population numbered 1.8 million people.[11] Between 24 October 2014 and September 2015, the crossing had been opened for only 34 days.[13]
> 
> On 22 January 2015, Egypt closed the border crossing.[37] In March, it declared that it would only open the border crossing if the Palestinian side is staffed by Palestinian Authority employees under the full authority of the Presidential Guard and no Hamas personnel are present
> 
> Rafah Border Crossing - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> Are you on crack?  Go back and read what I said.
Click to expand...


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Billo argues that if there is only 106 rockets from Gaza during a ceasefire it doesn't break the ceasefire.  But if Israel responds even once, then its Israel which is breaking the ceasefire.  Irrational.


If there is a 98% reduction in rocket attacks, Israel should respond in kind.


----------



## The Original Tree

Yes and The Jews caused The Armenian Genocide and The Holocaust.

Your soul is accursed.



Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel believes (and I think she is right) that ending the blockade would result in an escalation of war.
> 
> THAT is the entire point I've been trying to make.  So here's the thing.  Let's assume that you are right and I am wrong and that the cessation of the blockade will lead to peace, goodwill and brotherhood between Israel and Gaza.  How are you going to convince Israel that this peace will happen?  Do you think massing hundreds of thousands of protesters at the border, armed with guns, grenades, knives, IEDs, firebomb balloons and stones is going to convince Israel of Gaza's peaceful vision of the future?
> 
> Do you see how that is irrational thinking?  Let's prove to Israel how peaceful we are!  With guns, grenades, knives, IEDs, firebombs and stones!
> 
> 
> 
> This is not a war.  And the occupation is the reason for all the violence.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hossfly

Billo_Really said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the "Palestinians" wanted peace, they'd go back to Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't from Jordan.  Why don't Zionists go back to Europe?
Click to expand...


Why don't you go back to West Virginia, Hillbilly_Really?


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> Zionists declared independence over 70% of the land .



It's like You want to get caught lying...


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> Single Arab country. We don't give a fuck what Arabs think.


I'm talking about all countries.


----------



## The Original Tree

*So who is your favorite Character in The Bible?

Adam
Noah
Abraham
Moses
Jesus
Satan



Billo_Really said:





Slyhunter said:



			Single Arab country. We don't give a fuck what Arabs think.
		
Click to expand...

I'm talking about all countries.
		
Click to expand...

*


----------



## Billo_Really

The Original Tree said:


> You have proven to be a Jew hating liar many times.
> 
> Do you not value your eternal soul?


Why would I hate Jews?


----------



## The Original Tree

Because your soul is damned.



Billo_Really said:


> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have proven to be a Jew hating liar many times.
> 
> Do you not value your eternal soul?
> 
> 
> 
> Why would I hate Jews?
Click to expand...


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> To guarantee something one needs to have integrity,
> not sound like a crackpot at the end of cash, who will sell his mother for a dose.
> 
> Did Eisenhower also make the Brits bury the dead of Dresden?


Tell The Original Tree I don't hate Jews.  I just hate you.


----------



## The Original Tree

But I love Jews and God.

So now what?

What side of Hell does that put you on?





Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> To guarantee something one needs to have integrity,
> not sound like a crackpot at the end of cash, who will sell his mother for a dose.
> 
> Did Eisenhower also make the Brits bury the dead of Dresden?
> 
> 
> 
> Tell The Original Tree I don't hate Jews.  I just hate you.
Click to expand...


----------



## Billo_Really

The Original Tree said:


> No sane person should read anything you write.
> 
> It comes straight from the pit of Hell.


You gotta pay to read my posts.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hossfly said:


> Why don't you go back to West Virginia, Hillbilly_Really?


I've never been to West Virginia.  But I do like Jerry West!


----------



## The Original Tree

Why would I pay for toilet paper?

And who is a fool that he would purchase lies?

Well Obama & Clinton did so that makes them fools. 

Are you a fool?



Billo_Really said:


> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> No sane person should read anything you write.
> 
> It comes straight from the pit of Hell.
> 
> 
> 
> You gotta pay to read my posts.
Click to expand...


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> ​A population that size needs at least 1200 trucks a day.



Where does that number come from?

Maybe they just need You to wipe them a nose,
and please, upon leaving, don't forget to turn the back, comfortably bend over, stick that empty head into the sand, and stay still until Bathtub Barry finishes rewarding You for the good effort.


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> It's like You want to get caught lying...



The majority land owners were Arab.


----------



## Billo_Really

The Original Tree said:


> *So who is your favorite Character in The Bible?
> 
> Adam
> Noah
> Abraham
> Moses
> Jesus
> Satan
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Single Arab country. We don't give a fuck what Arabs think.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm talking about all countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *


Since I'm an Irish Catholic, that would be Jesus.


----------



## Billo_Really

The Original Tree said:


> Because your soul is damned.


My soul is kick-ass and has nothing to do with Judaism.


----------



## Billo_Really

The Original Tree said:


> But I love Jews and God.
> 
> So now what?
> 
> What side of Hell does that put you on?


Why would I care what you love?


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> All kinds of wrong in this paragraph.  Let's see if we can walk you through this.
> 
> Germany and Poland are two separate states.  We all agree that one state can not take territory from another state by force.
> 
> Jordan, then, had absolutely no right to hold the territories it held between 1948 and 1967 as it had "conquered by conquest" a territory which belonged to another state.  Jordan unilaterally ceded all claim to the territories it held in Western Palestine between 1948 and 1967.
> 
> With me so far?  Jordan had and has no claim to the territory.  We agree?
> 
> In 1948, then, which States had a claim to that territory in Western Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel seized these lands in the '67 war.  You cannot hold onto land seized in a war.
Click to expand...


No. Israel lost those lands in the 1948 defensive war started when five Arab armies with absolutely no rights to any of that territory invaded and captured it. It was liberated in 1967 and returned to its rightful sovereign. 

Of all the States which existed in 1948 ONLY Israel had sovereign possession of that territory. By law.


----------



## Billo_Really

The Original Tree said:


> Why would I pay for toilet paper?
> 
> And who is a fool that he would purchase lies?
> 
> Well Obama & Clinton did so that makes them fools.
> 
> Are you a fool?


No.  Next question.


----------



## The Original Tree

*So you Love Jews and believe like Jesus did that Israel is The Homeland of Jews and Jesus?

So tell me, what did you think when Jesus said, 

“Do not be downtrodden and poor in spirit ye Palestinians, lift up thine heads, and sing praises to The Lord of Hosts for I shall make Palestine an ever lasting homeland
for you!”




Billo_Really said:





The Original Tree said:



			So who is your favorite Character in The Bible?

Adam
Noah
Abraham
Moses
Jesus
Satan



Billo_Really said:





Slyhunter said:



			Single Arab country. We don't give a fuck what Arabs think.
		
Click to expand...

I'm talking about all countries.
		
Click to expand...



Click to expand...

Since I'm an Irish Catholic, that would be Jesus.
		
Click to expand...

*


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> Where does that number come from?


I flipped a coin.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> No. Israel lost those lands in the 1948 defensive war started when five Arab armies with absolutely no rights to any of that territory invaded and captured it. It was liberated in 1967 and returned to its rightful sovereign.
> 
> Of all the States which existed in 1948 ONLY Israel had sovereign possession of that territory. By law.


Those Arab armies went in with the intention of restoring the rule of law.

What did I tell you about moving the goal posts?


----------



## Billo_Really

The Original Tree said:


> *So you Love Jews and believe like Jesus did that Israel is The Homeland of Jews and Jesus?
> 
> So tell me, what did you think when Jesus said,
> 
> “Do not be downtrodden and poor in spirit ye Palestinians, lift up thine heads, and sing praises to The Lord of Hosts for I shall make Palestine an ever lasting homeland
> for you!” *


Jews don't believe in Christ.  That's why Gazans are massing at the border.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  Billo_Really, et al,

This is a love triangle:  The PA, HAMAS, and Israel.  And like it or not, to demonstrate how screwed-up I am, I think that Israel and HAMAS have a better relationship going → then does Israel and the PA.  How bad is that?



Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you may choose the worst report on Gaza without giving any accountability to Hamas' actions......
> Trucks loaded with food enter Gaza on a daily basis. The question would be WHY doesn't that food reach those "million Palestinians" who do not have enough to feed their families?  Where do the trucks and the food end up?
> Hint:  Hamas would know
> 
> 
> 
> Don't change the subject.  The number of trucks going into Gaza has nothing to do with Hamas.
> 
> _The number of trucks carrying food into the Gaza Strip last week was the lowest it’s reached in several months. According to Defense Ministry figures, in the 24 hours after Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu announced the closure of the Kerem Shalom crossing to goods, 193 trucks entered the Strip, 171 of those carrying food, medicine and hygiene products._​A population that size needs at least 1200 trucks a day.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

This is a strange situation.  But Israel is trying to do on the micro level, that the Major Powers do on the Macro level.  Israel is making the equivalent of sanctions for non-compliance.  It is a financial set of sanctions directed against payments to various employee_ (including ex-civil servants)_ of both HAMAS and the PA.  It also targets the economy by slowing down imports _(border-crossing of truck transports)_ and continues the denial of fishing and motor launch operation beyond the aerial and naval blockade restrictions to limit SALW smuggling.   

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Billo argues that if there is only 106 rockets from Gaza during a ceasefire it doesn't break the ceasefire.  But if Israel responds even once, then its Israel which is breaking the ceasefire.  Irrational.
> 
> 
> 
> If there is a 98% reduction in rocket attacks, Israel should respond in kind.
Click to expand...


Respond how?  By 'in kind' do you mean Israel should send 106 indiscriminate rockets to Gaza?  During a ceasefire?


----------



## The Original Tree

Wrong

There are many Messianic Jews.  

All The Apostles were Jews.

Peter was a Jew!

Don’t Catholics claim Peter as the first Pope?

Why won’t you answer my question about Jesus and The Palestinians?

Weird Verse.

What do you think about that?



Billo_Really said:


> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> *So you Love Jews and believe like Jesus did that Israel is The Homeland of Jews and Jesus?
> 
> So tell me, what did you think when Jesus said,
> 
> “Do not be downtrodden and poor in spirit ye Palestinians, lift up thine heads, and sing praises to The Lord of Hosts for I shall make Palestine an ever lasting homeland
> for you!” *
> 
> 
> 
> Jews don't believe in Christ.  That's why Gazans are massing at the border.
Click to expand...


----------



## Billo_Really

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Billo_Really, et al,
> 
> This is a love triangle:  The PA, HAMAS, and Israel.  And like it or not, to demonstrate how screwed-up I am, I think that Israel and HAMAS have a better relationship going → then does Israel and the PA.  How bad is that?
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you may choose the worst report on Gaza without giving any accountability to Hamas' actions......
> Trucks loaded with food enter Gaza on a daily basis. The question would be WHY doesn't that food reach those "million Palestinians" who do not have enough to feed their families?  Where do the trucks and the food end up?
> Hint:  Hamas would know
> 
> 
> 
> Don't change the subject.  The number of trucks going into Gaza has nothing to do with Hamas.
> 
> _The number of trucks carrying food into the Gaza Strip last week was the lowest it’s reached in several months. According to Defense Ministry figures, in the 24 hours after Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu announced the closure of the Kerem Shalom crossing to goods, 193 trucks entered the Strip, 171 of those carrying food, medicine and hygiene products._​A population that size needs at least 1200 trucks a day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a strange situation.  But Israel is trying to do on the micro level, that the Major Powers do on the Macro level.  Israel is making the equivalent of sanctions for non-compliance.  It is a financial set of sanctions directed against payments to various employee_ (including ex-civil servants)_ of both HAMAS and the PA.  It also targets the economy by slowing down imports _(border-crossing of truck transports)_ and continues the denial of fishing and motor launch operation beyond the aerial and naval blockade restrictions to limit SALW smuggling.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Go back to the time the Israeli's were funding Hamas.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Respond how?  By 'in kind' do you mean Israel should send 106 indiscriminate rockets to Gaza?  During a ceasefire?


Don't play dumb.


----------



## Billo_Really

The Original Tree said:


> Wrong
> 
> There are many Messianic Jews.
> 
> All The Apostles were Jews.
> 
> Peter was a Jew!
> 
> Don’t Catholics claim Peter as the first Pope?
> 
> Why won’t you answer my question about Jesus and The Palestinians?
> 
> Weird Verse.
> 
> What do you think about that?


The Palestinian's are the direct descendents of the the Israelites.

And the diaspora was a myth.


----------



## The Original Tree

*
So tell me, what did you think when Jesus said, 

“Do not be downtrodden and poor in spirit ye Palestinians, lift up thine heads, and sing praises to The Lord of Hosts for I shall make Palestine an ever lasting homeland
for you!”*


Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Respond how?  By 'in kind' do you mean Israel should send 106 indiscriminate rockets to Gaza?  During a ceasefire?
> 
> 
> 
> Don't play dumb.
Click to expand...


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's like You want to get caught lying...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The majority land owners were Arab.
Click to expand...


That's not what You said.
And no, the land was not owned by Arabs, majority of it was Ottoman state land leased under various (about 6) different categories of time frame and exploitation.

One of the reasons they always refer to Ottoman records but never actually show them, is because they know they owned nada under those leases, and in most cases private land owners didn't even live in the territory.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's like You want to get caught lying...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The majority land owners were Arab.
Click to expand...


Oh again with the fake maps.

That map designated every inch of land as "owned" by Arabs except the land owned by Jews. That land was not owned by Arabs.

And AGAIN land ownership has nothing to do with sovereignty. 

Irrational and ignorant.


----------



## The Original Tree

*So Jacob begat Muhammad?

LMAO

So says the person who’s Church was founded by a Jew.

Do you hate the first pope of The Catholic Church?

You aren’t one of those weirdos who believe in replacement theology are you?

That is a damnable heresy!



Billo_Really said:





The Original Tree said:



			Wrong

There are many Messianic Jews. 

All The Apostles were Jews.

Peter was a Jew!

Don’t Catholics claim Peter as the first Pope?

Why won’t you answer my question about Jesus and The Palestinians?

Weird Verse.

What do you think about that?
		
Click to expand...

The Palestinian's are the direct descendents of the the Israelites.

And the diaspora was a myth.
		
Click to expand...

*


----------



## Indeependent

The Original Tree said:


> Wrong
> 
> There are many Messianic Jews.
> 
> All The Apostles were Jews.
> 
> Peter was a Jew!
> 
> Don’t Catholics claim Peter as the first Pope?
> 
> Why won’t you answer my question about Jesus and The Palestinians?
> 
> Weird Verse.
> 
> What do you think about that?
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> *So you Love Jews and believe like Jesus did that Israel is The Homeland of Jews and Jesus?
> 
> So tell me, what did you think when Jesus said,
> 
> “Do not be downtrodden and poor in spirit ye Palestinians, lift up thine heads, and sing praises to The Lord of Hosts for I shall make Palestine an ever lasting homeland
> for you!” *
> 
> 
> 
> Jews don't believe in Christ.  That's why Gazans are massing at the border.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I bet you don’t know where the name Simon Peter came from.
You’d pass out if you knew.
HINT: He was a member of the Sanhedrin.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong
> 
> There are many Messianic Jews.
> 
> All The Apostles were Jews.
> 
> Peter was a Jew!
> 
> Don’t Catholics claim Peter as the first Pope?
> 
> Why won’t you answer my question about Jesus and The Palestinians?
> 
> Weird Verse.
> 
> What do you think about that?
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian's are the direct descendents of the the Israelites.
> 
> And the diaspora was a myth.
Click to expand...



Is that why Arabs can't even pronounce the name of the land correctly?


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> No. Israel lost those lands in the 1948 defensive war started when five Arab armies with absolutely no rights to any of that territory invaded and captured it. It was liberated in 1967 and returned to its rightful sovereign.
> 
> Of all the States which existed in 1948 ONLY Israel had sovereign possession of that territory. By law.
> 
> 
> 
> Those Arab armies went in with the intention of restoring the rule of law.
> 
> What did I tell you about moving the goal posts?
Click to expand...



Oh give me a break. Yeven if we go along with you irrational "rule of law" bullshit, EVEN STILL you can't take territory by force. That territory could not belong to Jordan, Egypt, or any other Arab State between 1948 and 1967. 

So still that territory belonged to which State in 1948?


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> *So you Love Jews and believe like Jesus did that Israel is The Homeland of Jews and Jesus?
> 
> So tell me, what did you think when Jesus said,
> 
> “Do not be downtrodden and poor in spirit ye Palestinians, lift up thine heads, and sing praises to The Lord of Hosts for I shall make Palestine an ever lasting homeland
> for you!” *
> 
> 
> 
> Jews don't believe in Christ.  That's why Gazans are massing at the border.
Click to expand...


Sure enough. Scratch an antisemite and eventually the truth comes out.


----------



## Indeependent

Shusha said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> *So you Love Jews and believe like Jesus did that Israel is The Homeland of Jews and Jesus?
> 
> So tell me, what did you think when Jesus said,
> 
> “Do not be downtrodden and poor in spirit ye Palestinians, lift up thine heads, and sing praises to The Lord of Hosts for I shall make Palestine an ever lasting homeland
> for you!” *
> 
> 
> 
> Jews don't believe in Christ.  That's why Gazans are massing at the border.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure enough. Scratch an antisemite and eventually the truth comes out.
Click to expand...

I must have a Jew hater on Ignore.
Which one is this?


----------



## The Original Tree

Jesus chose some rather
Deplorable characters as his Apostles.

But it is a testimony to The Word’s Ability to change lives.



Indeependent said:


> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong
> 
> There are many Messianic Jews.
> 
> All The Apostles were Jews.
> 
> Peter was a Jew!
> 
> Don’t Catholics claim Peter as the first Pope?
> 
> Why won’t you answer my question about Jesus and The Palestinians?
> 
> Weird Verse.
> 
> What do you think about that?
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> *So you Love Jews and believe like Jesus did that Israel is The Homeland of Jews and Jesus?
> 
> So tell me, what did you think when Jesus said,
> 
> “Do not be downtrodden and poor in spirit ye Palestinians, lift up thine heads, and sing praises to The Lord of Hosts for I shall make Palestine an ever lasting homeland
> for you!” *
> 
> 
> 
> Jews don't believe in Christ.  That's why Gazans are massing at the border.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet you don’t know where the name Simon Peter came from.
> You’d pass out if you knew.
> HINT: He was a member of the Sanhedrin.
Click to expand...


----------



## Shusha

The Original Tree said:


> Wrong
> 
> There are many Messianic Jews.
> 
> All The Apostles were Jews.
> 
> Peter was a Jew!
> 
> Don’t Catholics claim Peter as the first Pope?
> 
> Why won’t you answer my question about Jesus and The Palestinians?
> 
> Weird Verse.
> 
> What do you think about that?
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> *So you Love Jews and believe like Jesus did that Israel is The Homeland of Jews and Jesus?
> 
> So tell me, what did you think when Jesus said,
> 
> “Do not be downtrodden and poor in spirit ye Palestinians, lift up thine heads, and sing praises to The Lord of Hosts for I shall make Palestine an ever lasting homeland
> for you!” *
> 
> 
> 
> Jews don't believe in Christ.  That's why Gazans are massing at the border.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



Off topic, but Messianics are Christians, not Jews.


----------



## The Original Tree

BillReally.

Ugh



Indeependent said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> *So you Love Jews and believe like Jesus did that Israel is The Homeland of Jews and Jesus?
> 
> So tell me, what did you think when Jesus said,
> 
> “Do not be downtrodden and poor in spirit ye Palestinians, lift up thine heads, and sing praises to The Lord of Hosts for I shall make Palestine an ever lasting homeland
> for you!” *
> 
> 
> 
> Jews don't believe in Christ.  That's why Gazans are massing at the border.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure enough. Scratch an antisemite and eventually the truth comes out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I must have a Jew hater on Ignore.
> Which one is this?
Click to expand...


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have proven to be a Jew hating liar many times.
> 
> Do you not value your eternal soul?
> 
> 
> 
> Why would I hate Jews?
Click to expand...


Usually it takes a seriously disturbed impotent...


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong
> 
> There are many Messianic Jews.
> 
> All The Apostles were Jews.
> 
> Peter was a Jew!
> 
> Don’t Catholics claim Peter as the first Pope?
> 
> Why won’t you answer my question about Jesus and The Palestinians?
> 
> Weird Verse.
> 
> What do you think about that?
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian's are the direct descendents of the the Israelites.
> 
> And the diaspora was a myth.
Click to expand...


Oh look. There we go again. Scratch an antisemite.


----------



## The Original Tree

Yes I know that.  Would you prefer I call them Christian Israelis?

Everyone knows what a Messianic Jew is.
You do not have to abandon being Jewish to follow Christ.

What would a Jewish person prefer we call a Hebrew that believes in Yahshua?



Shusha said:


> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong
> 
> There are many Messianic Jews.
> 
> All The Apostles were Jews.
> 
> Peter was a Jew!
> 
> Don’t Catholics claim Peter as the first Pope?
> 
> Why won’t you answer my question about Jesus and The Palestinians?
> 
> Weird Verse.
> 
> What do you think about that?
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> *So you Love Jews and believe like Jesus did that Israel is The Homeland of Jews and Jesus?
> 
> So tell me, what did you think when Jesus said,
> 
> “Do not be downtrodden and poor in spirit ye Palestinians, lift up thine heads, and sing praises to The Lord of Hosts for I shall make Palestine an ever lasting homeland
> for you!” *
> 
> 
> 
> Jews don't believe in Christ.  That's why Gazans are massing at the border.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Off topic, but Messianics are Christians, not Jews.
Click to expand...


----------



## Shusha

The Original Tree said:


> Yes I know that.  Would you prefer I call them Christian Israelis?
> 
> Everyone knows what a Messianic Jew is.
> You do not have to abandon being Jewish to follow Christ.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong
> 
> There are many Messianic Jews.
> 
> All The Apostles were Jews.
> 
> Peter was a Jew!
> 
> Don’t Catholics claim Peter as the first Pope?
> 
> Why won’t you answer my question about Jesus and The Palestinians?
> 
> Weird Verse.
> 
> What do you think about that?
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> *So you Love Jews and believe like Jesus did that Israel is The Homeland of Jews and Jesus?
> 
> So tell me, what did you think when Jesus said,
> 
> “Do not be downtrodden and poor in spirit ye Palestinians, lift up thine heads, and sing praises to The Lord of Hosts for I shall make Palestine an ever lasting homeland
> for you!” *
> 
> 
> 
> Jews don't believe in Christ.  That's why Gazans are massing at the border.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Off topic, but Messianics are Christians, not Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



I disagree. But perhaps we could have that conversation on the religion board?


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> You cannot acquire land by force.










You forgot to say "but it's totally fine they're Arabs"


----------



## The Original Tree

I would do that.  I try to learn as much as I can from Jewish people.



Shusha said:


> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I know that.  Would you prefer I call them Christian Israelis?
> 
> Everyone knows what a Messianic Jew is.
> You do not have to abandon being Jewish to follow Christ.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong
> 
> There are many Messianic Jews.
> 
> All The Apostles were Jews.
> 
> Peter was a Jew!
> 
> Don’t Catholics claim Peter as the first Pope?
> 
> Why won’t you answer my question about Jesus and The Palestinians?
> 
> Weird Verse.
> 
> What do you think about that?
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> *So you Love Jews and believe like Jesus did that Israel is The Homeland of Jews and Jesus?
> 
> So tell me, what did you think when Jesus said,
> 
> “Do not be downtrodden and poor in spirit ye Palestinians, lift up thine heads, and sing praises to The Lord of Hosts for I shall make Palestine an ever lasting homeland
> for you!” *
> 
> 
> 
> Jews don't believe in Christ.  That's why Gazans are massing at the border.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Off topic, but Messianics are Christians, not Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree. But perhaps we could have that conversation on the religion board?
Click to expand...


----------



## Indeependent

The Original Tree said:


> BillReally.
> 
> Ugh
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> *So you Love Jews and believe like Jesus did that Israel is The Homeland of Jews and Jesus?
> 
> So tell me, what did you think when Jesus said,
> 
> “Do not be downtrodden and poor in spirit ye Palestinians, lift up thine heads, and sing praises to The Lord of Hosts for I shall make Palestine an ever lasting homeland
> for you!” *
> 
> 
> 
> Jews don't believe in Christ.  That's why Gazans are massing at the border.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure enough. Scratch an antisemite and eventually the truth comes out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I must have a Jew hater on Ignore.
> Which one is this?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Drunken, Irish “Catholic” pos beaten up regularly by his dad.


----------



## Indeependent

The Original Tree said:


> Jesus chose some rather
> Deplorable characters as his Apostles.
> 
> But it is a testimony to The Word’s Ability to change lives.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong
> 
> There are many Messianic Jews.
> 
> All The Apostles were Jews.
> 
> Peter was a Jew!
> 
> Don’t Catholics claim Peter as the first Pope?
> 
> Why won’t you answer my question about Jesus and The Palestinians?
> 
> Weird Verse.
> 
> What do you think about that?
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> *So you Love Jews and believe like Jesus did that Israel is The Homeland of Jews and Jesus?
> 
> So tell me, what did you think when Jesus said,
> 
> “Do not be downtrodden and poor in spirit ye Palestinians, lift up thine heads, and sing praises to The Lord of Hosts for I shall make Palestine an ever lasting homeland
> for you!” *
> 
> 
> 
> Jews don't believe in Christ.  That's why Gazans are massing at the border.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet you don’t know where the name Simon Peter came from.
> You’d pass out if you knew.
> HINT: He was a member of the Sanhedrin.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Only the uneducated would follow Yeshu.


----------



## The Original Tree

Lol

That’s not nice, but funny!



Indeependent said:


> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> BillReally.
> 
> Ugh
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> *So you Love Jews and believe like Jesus did that Israel is The Homeland of Jews and Jesus?
> 
> So tell me, what did you think when Jesus said,
> 
> “Do not be downtrodden and poor in spirit ye Palestinians, lift up thine heads, and sing praises to The Lord of Hosts for I shall make Palestine an ever lasting homeland
> for you!” *
> 
> 
> 
> Jews don't believe in Christ.  That's why Gazans are massing at the border.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure enough. Scratch an antisemite and eventually the truth comes out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I must have a Jew hater on Ignore.
> Which one is this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Drunken, Irish “Catholic” pos beaten up regularly by his dad.
Click to expand...


----------



## Indeependent

The Original Tree said:


> Lol
> 
> That’s not nice, but funny!
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> BillReally.
> 
> Ugh
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews don't believe in Christ.  That's why Gazans are massing at the border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure enough. Scratch an antisemite and eventually the truth comes out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I must have a Jew hater on Ignore.
> Which one is this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Drunken, Irish “Catholic” pos beaten up regularly by his dad.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

It’s sad; he hangs out with self-Hating Jews.


----------



## The Original Tree

So Messiah is talked about in the OT.

So how is someone uneducated if they believe that Messiah came as Messiah Bin David and presented Himself to Jerusalem in 27 AD?
And was crucified in 30 AD and 40 years later not one stone was left upon another when The Romans tore down the Temple.

Was He not Messiah Bin Joseph?  The Lamb of God?  Did not God promise Isaac A Lamb to take the place of Jacob?

Was not Jesus called The Lamb of God?

Did not Daniel talk about 490 years “70 weeks”
being determined upon Israel and Messiah being cut off at 483 years or in the 69th Week?


Book of Daniel 9:24-27

“Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

“Know, therefore, and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah, the Prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks; the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

“And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself; and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary, and the end of it shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

“And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolator.”

Daniel 9:24-27


Daniel’s Prophecy of the Seventy Weeks






Indeependent said:


> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus chose some rather
> Deplorable characters as his Apostles.
> 
> But it is a testimony to The Word’s Ability to change lives.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong
> 
> There are many Messianic Jews.
> 
> All The Apostles were Jews.
> 
> Peter was a Jew!
> 
> Don’t Catholics claim Peter as the first Pope?
> 
> Why won’t you answer my question about Jesus and The Palestinians?
> 
> Weird Verse.
> 
> What do you think about that?
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> *So you Love Jews and believe like Jesus did that Israel is The Homeland of Jews and Jesus?
> 
> So tell me, what did you think when Jesus said,
> 
> “Do not be downtrodden and poor in spirit ye Palestinians, lift up thine heads, and sing praises to The Lord of Hosts for I shall make Palestine an ever lasting homeland
> for you!” *
> 
> 
> 
> Jews don't believe in Christ.  That's why Gazans are massing at the border.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet you don’t know where the name Simon Peter came from.
> You’d pass out if you knew.
> HINT: He was a member of the Sanhedrin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only the uneducated would follow Yeshu.
Click to expand...


----------



## Shusha

The Original Tree said:


> I would do that.  I try to learn as much as I can from Jewish people.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I know that.  Would you prefer I call them Christian Israelis?
> 
> Everyone knows what a Messianic Jew is.
> You do not have to abandon being Jewish to follow Christ.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong
> 
> There are many Messianic Jews.
> 
> All The Apostles were Jews.
> 
> Peter was a Jew!
> 
> Don’t Catholics claim Peter as the first Pope?
> 
> Why won’t you answer my question about Jesus and The Palestinians?
> 
> Weird Verse.
> 
> What do you think about that?
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews don't believe in Christ.  That's why Gazans are massing at the border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Off topic, but Messianics are Christians, not Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree. But perhaps we could have that conversation on the religion board?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


I'm not actually Jewish. But I know a little bit. I'm sure others will join us. And I'll learn something too.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> With the caveat you cannot infringe upon the inalienable rights of the existing non-Jewish population.


Learn the difference between civil, religious and political rights.
Only the Jewish nation was vested with sovereignty over the whole of the territory.

By the way, that resolution became US law.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> To guarantee something one needs to have integrity,
> not sound like a crackpot at the end of cash, who will sell his mother for a dose.
> 
> Did Eisenhower also make the Brits bury the dead of Dresden?
> 
> 
> 
> Tell The Original Tree I don't hate Jews.  I just hate you.
Click to expand...


So You only hate most of Jews in the world?
What a sweetheart... we should give You a prize for being only a mostly lowlife.


----------



## The Original Tree

Really?

That must be awful.  

For them!



Indeependent said:


> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol
> 
> That’s not nice, but funny!
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> BillReally.
> 
> Ugh
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure enough. Scratch an antisemite and eventually the truth comes out.
> 
> 
> 
> I must have a Jew hater on Ignore.
> Which one is this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Drunken, Irish “Catholic” pos beaten up regularly by his dad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s sad; he hangs out with self-Hating Jews.
Click to expand...


----------



## The Original Tree

I’ll try to start something there.


Shusha said:


> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I know that.  Would you prefer I call them Christian Israelis?
> 
> Everyone knows what a Messianic Jew is.
> You do not have to abandon being Jewish to follow Christ.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong
> 
> There are many Messianic Jews.
> 
> All The Apostles were Jews.
> 
> Peter was a Jew!
> 
> Don’t Catholics claim Peter as the first Pope?
> 
> Why won’t you answer my question about Jesus and The Palestinians?
> 
> Weird Verse.
> 
> What do you think about that?
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> *So you Love Jews and believe like Jesus did that Israel is The Homeland of Jews and Jesus?
> 
> So tell me, what did you think when Jesus said,
> 
> “Do not be downtrodden and poor in spirit ye Palestinians, lift up thine heads, and sing praises to The Lord of Hosts for I shall make Palestine an ever lasting homeland
> for you!” *
> 
> 
> 
> Jews don't believe in Christ.  That's why Gazans are massing at the border.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Off topic, but Messianics are Christians, not Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree. But perhaps we could have that conversation on the religion board?
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

Dead gee-had wannabes at the Islamic terrorist border riots.

That’s worth a righteous Islamo-high five.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  Billo_Really, et al,

You have this backward.

QUOTE="Billo_Really, post: 22122828, member: 2873"]





Shusha said:


> No. Israel lost those lands in the 1948 defensive war started when five Arab armies with absolutely no rights to any of that territory invaded and captured it. It was liberated in 1967 and returned to its rightful sovereign.
> 
> Of all the States which existed in 1948, ONLY Israel had sovereign possession of that territory. By law.


Those Arab armies went in with the intention of restoring the rule of law.

What did I tell you about moving the goal posts?[/QUOTE]
*(COMMENT)*

The 1948 invasion _(of the UN Trusteeship and the newly formed State of Israel) _was Article 2(7) Chapter I, UN Charter; which was the Rule of Law.

Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the *domestic jurisdiction of any state* or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter, but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII.​
In this case, the Israel War of Independence was instigated by the Arab League, they made a conspiratorial and coordinated attack with impacted the "domestic jurisdiction" of the new state and the reaction fit the requirements of "self-defense."

Additionally, the conspiratorial and coordinated attack was executed in order to stop the implementation of the outine in the Resolution of 29 November 1948 • A/RES/181(II) • the establishment of the proposed Jewish State _(Part II • Boundaries -- Paragraph B • Jewish State)_ and the execution of Jewish Self-Determination.   In doing so, the Arab League conspired to intentionally violate The Purpose and Principles of the UN Charter.



			
				Chapter I • Purpose and Principles said:
			
		

> To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of *equal rights and self-determination of peoples*, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;



And this is only the thumbnail view.  But it is important to understand the attempt to manufacture an excuse to alibi schemes to accomplish some end, in the criminal realm:

◈ Intended to harm the sovereignty of a state and constitute solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute a grave collective danger, to the people forming that state.

◈  Actively advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government.

◈  The active use of foreign intervention and foreign military force to overcome a UN sanctioned operation under the administration of the UN Palestine Commission.​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Billo_Really, et al,
> 
> You have this backward.
> 
> QUOTE="Billo_Really, post: 22122828, member: 2873"]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> No. Israel lost those lands in the 1948 defensive war started when five Arab armies with absolutely no rights to any of that territory invaded and captured it. It was liberated in 1967 and returned to its rightful sovereign.
> 
> Of all the States which existed in 1948, ONLY Israel had sovereign possession of that territory. By law.
> 
> 
> 
> Those Arab armies went in with the intention of restoring the rule of law.
> 
> What did I tell you about moving the goal posts?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The 1948 invasion _(of the UN Trusteeship and the newly formed State of Israel) _was Article 2(7) Chapter I, UN Charter; which was the Rule of Law.

Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the *domestic jurisdiction of any state* or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter, but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII.​
In this case, the Israel War of Independence was instigated by the Arab League, they made a conspiratorial and coordinated attack with impacted the "domestic jurisdiction" of the new state and the reaction fit the requirements of "self-defense."

Additionally, the conspiratorial and coordinated attack was executed in order to stop the implementation of the outine in the Resolution of 29 November 1948 • A/RES/181(II) • the establishment of the proposed Jewish State _(Part II • Boundaries -- Paragraph B • Jewish State)_ and the execution of Jewish Self-Determination.   In doing so, the Arab League conspired to intentionally violate The Purpose and Principles of the UN Charter.



			
				Chapter I • Purpose and Principles said:
			
		

> To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of *equal rights and self-determination of peoples*, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;



And this is only the thumbnail view.  But it is important to understand the attempt to manufacture an excuse to alibi schemes to accomplish some end, in the criminal realm:

◈ Intended to harm the sovereignty of a state and constitute solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute a grave collective danger, to the people forming that state.

◈  Actively advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government.

◈  The active use of foreign intervention and foreign military force to overcome a UN sanctioned operation under the administration of the UN Palestine Commission.​
Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]
Israel was not attacked in 1948.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel was not attacked in 1948.



A lot of dead Arabs-Moslems in combined armies which attacked Israel (and suffered a humiliating loss), would disagree with you.

But, don’t let facts confuse you.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Billo_Really, et al,
> 
> You have this backward.
> 
> QUOTE="Billo_Really, post: 22122828, member: 2873"]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> No. Israel lost those lands in the 1948 defensive war started when five Arab armies with absolutely no rights to any of that territory invaded and captured it. It was liberated in 1967 and returned to its rightful sovereign.
> 
> Of all the States which existed in 1948, ONLY Israel had sovereign possession of that territory. By law.
> 
> 
> 
> Those Arab armies went in with the intention of restoring the rule of law.
> 
> What did I tell you about moving the goal posts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The 1948 invasion _(of the UN Trusteeship and the newly formed State of Israel) _was Article 2(7) Chapter I, UN Charter; which was the Rule of Law.
> 
> Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the *domestic jurisdiction of any state* or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter, but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII.​
> In this case, the Israel War of Independence was instigated by the Arab League, they made a conspiratorial and coordinated attack with impacted the "domestic jurisdiction" of the new state and the reaction fit the requirements of "self-defense."
> 
> Additionally, the conspiratorial and coordinated attack was executed in order to stop the implementation of the outine in the Resolution of 29 November 1948 • A/RES/181(II) • the establishment of the proposed Jewish State _(Part II • Boundaries -- Paragraph B • Jewish State)_ and the execution of Jewish Self-Determination.   In doing so, the Arab League conspired to intentionally violate The Purpose and Principles of the UN Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chapter I • Purpose and Principles said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of *equal rights and self-determination of peoples*, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And this is only the thumbnail view.  But it is important to understand the attempt to manufacture an excuse to alibi schemes to accomplish some end, in the criminal realm:
> 
> ◈ Intended to harm the sovereignty of a state and constitute solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute a grave collective danger, to the people forming that state.
> 
> ◈  Actively advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government.
> 
> ◈  The active use of foreign intervention and foreign military force to overcome a UN sanctioned operation under the administration of the UN Palestine Commission.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israel was not attacked in 1948.[/QUOTE]

Israel was attacked by the armies of Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon and Iraq.  At least Billo Really has a grasp on reality when he says they came to restore international law or protect the Palestinians, however wrong that analysis may be.  But to say Israel wasn't attacked might earn you a room in a mental institution, frankly.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The most powerful video showing the faces of the Gaza border


----------



## Indeependent

The Original Tree said:


> So Messiah is talked about in the OT.
> 
> So how is someone uneducated if they believe that Messiah came as Messiah Bin David and presented Himself to Jerusalem in 27 AD?
> And was crucified in 30 AD and 40 years later not one stone was left upon another when The Romans tore down the Temple.
> 
> Was He not Messiah Bin Joseph?  The Lamb of God?  Did not God promise Isaac A Lamb to take the place of Jacob?
> 
> Was not Jesus called The Lamb of God?
> 
> Did not Daniel talk about 490 years “70 weeks”
> being determined upon Israel and Messiah being cut off at 483 years or in the 69th Week?
> 
> 
> Book of Daniel 9:24-27
> 
> “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
> 
> “Know, therefore, and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah, the Prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks; the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
> 
> “And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself; and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary, and the end of it shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
> 
> “And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolator.”
> 
> Daniel 9:24-27
> 
> 
> Daniel’s Prophecy of the Seventy Weeks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus chose some rather
> Deplorable characters as his Apostles.
> 
> But it is a testimony to The Word’s Ability to change lives.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong
> 
> There are many Messianic Jews.
> 
> All The Apostles were Jews.
> 
> Peter was a Jew!
> 
> Don’t Catholics claim Peter as the first Pope?
> 
> Why won’t you answer my question about Jesus and The Palestinians?
> 
> Weird Verse.
> 
> What do you think about that?
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews don't believe in Christ.  That's why Gazans are massing at the border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet you don’t know where the name Simon Peter came from.
> You’d pass out if you knew.
> HINT: He was a member of the Sanhedrin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only the uneducated would follow Yeshu.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Do you even read your own NT?
The only people living at the time who followed him were the uneducated.
The biggest crowd he ever gathered was a pathetic 5,000, which would be an embarrassment today in any indoor or outdoor stadium.
He completely failed to usher in a period of peace.
We’re still waiting.


----------



## Indeependent

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Billo_Really, et al,
> 
> You have this backward.
> 
> QUOTE="Billo_Really, post: 22122828, member: 2873"]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> No. Israel lost those lands in the 1948 defensive war started when five Arab armies with absolutely no rights to any of that territory invaded and captured it. It was liberated in 1967 and returned to its rightful sovereign.
> 
> Of all the States which existed in 1948, ONLY Israel had sovereign possession of that territory. By law.
> 
> 
> 
> Those Arab armies went in with the intention of restoring the rule of law.
> 
> What did I tell you about moving the goal posts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The 1948 invasion _(of the UN Trusteeship and the newly formed State of Israel) _was Article 2(7) Chapter I, UN Charter; which was the Rule of Law.
> 
> Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the *domestic jurisdiction of any state* or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter, but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII.​
> In this case, the Israel War of Independence was instigated by the Arab League, they made a conspiratorial and coordinated attack with impacted the "domestic jurisdiction" of the new state and the reaction fit the requirements of "self-defense."
> 
> Additionally, the conspiratorial and coordinated attack was executed in order to stop the implementation of the outine in the Resolution of 29 November 1948 • A/RES/181(II) • the establishment of the proposed Jewish State _(Part II • Boundaries -- Paragraph B • Jewish State)_ and the execution of Jewish Self-Determination.   In doing so, the Arab League conspired to intentionally violate The Purpose and Principles of the UN Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chapter I • Purpose and Principles said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of *equal rights and self-determination of peoples*, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And this is only the thumbnail view.  But it is important to understand the attempt to manufacture an excuse to alibi schemes to accomplish some end, in the criminal realm:
> 
> ◈ Intended to harm the sovereignty of a state and constitute solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute a grave collective danger, to the people forming that state.
> 
> ◈  Actively advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government.
> 
> ◈  The active use of foreign intervention and foreign military force to overcome a UN sanctioned operation under the administration of the UN Palestine Commission.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was not attacked in 1948.
Click to expand...


Israel was attacked by the armies of Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon and Iraq.  At least Billo Really has a grasp on reality when he says they came to restore international law or protect the Palestinians, however wrong that analysis may be.  But to say Israel wasn't attacked might earn you a room in a mental institution, frankly.[/QUOTE]
Ignore BillyGoat; he will never give in to facts.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[There goes Billo's talking point   ]

Palestinians love to talk about how Israel attacks their poor Gaza fishing boats when they stray outside the areas they are allowed to be.

But Egypt does the same thing and no one talks about it.

Yesterday, Egypt abducted four Gaza fishermen who floated into its territory and put them under arrest.

The fishermen's captain, Nizar Ayyash, said: "The Egyptian boats surrounded a fishing boat in the sea off of Rafah, and arrested on board four fishermen."

No human rights groups have commented. Nor will they.

(full article online)

Egyptians also attack boats from Gaza. Don't tell anyone! ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Billo_Really, et al,
> 
> You have this backward.
> 
> QUOTE="Billo_Really, post: 22122828, member: 2873"]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> No. Israel lost those lands in the 1948 defensive war started when five Arab armies with absolutely no rights to any of that territory invaded and captured it. It was liberated in 1967 and returned to its rightful sovereign.
> 
> Of all the States which existed in 1948, ONLY Israel had sovereign possession of that territory. By law.
> 
> 
> 
> Those Arab armies went in with the intention of restoring the rule of law.
> 
> What did I tell you about moving the goal posts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The 1948 invasion _(of the UN Trusteeship and the newly formed State of Israel) _was Article 2(7) Chapter I, UN Charter; which was the Rule of Law.
> 
> Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the *domestic jurisdiction of any state* or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter, but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII.​
> In this case, the Israel War of Independence was instigated by the Arab League, they made a conspiratorial and coordinated attack with impacted the "domestic jurisdiction" of the new state and the reaction fit the requirements of "self-defense."
> 
> Additionally, the conspiratorial and coordinated attack was executed in order to stop the implementation of the outine in the Resolution of 29 November 1948 • A/RES/181(II) • the establishment of the proposed Jewish State _(Part II • Boundaries -- Paragraph B • Jewish State)_ and the execution of Jewish Self-Determination.   In doing so, the Arab League conspired to intentionally violate The Purpose and Principles of the UN Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chapter I • Purpose and Principles said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of *equal rights and self-determination of peoples*, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And this is only the thumbnail view.  But it is important to understand the attempt to manufacture an excuse to alibi schemes to accomplish some end, in the criminal realm:
> 
> ◈ Intended to harm the sovereignty of a state and constitute solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute a grave collective danger, to the people forming that state.
> 
> ◈  Actively advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government.
> 
> ◈  The active use of foreign intervention and foreign military force to overcome a UN sanctioned operation under the administration of the UN Palestine Commission.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was not attacked in 1948.
Click to expand...


Israel was attacked by the armies of Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon and Iraq.  At least Billo Really has a grasp on reality when he says they came to restore international law or protect the Palestinians, however wrong that analysis may be.  But to say Israel wasn't attacked might earn you a room in a mental institution, frankly.[/QUOTE]
If you believe Israel's bullshit talking point, why don't you post a 1948 map of Israel and show where it was entered?

That's a good boy.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Indeependent said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Billo_Really, et al,
> 
> You have this backward.
> 
> QUOTE="Billo_Really, post: 22122828, member: 2873"]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> No. Israel lost those lands in the 1948 defensive war started when five Arab armies with absolutely no rights to any of that territory invaded and captured it. It was liberated in 1967 and returned to its rightful sovereign.
> 
> Of all the States which existed in 1948, ONLY Israel had sovereign possession of that territory. By law.
> 
> 
> 
> Those Arab armies went in with the intention of restoring the rule of law.
> 
> What did I tell you about moving the goal posts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The 1948 invasion _(of the UN Trusteeship and the newly formed State of Israel) _was Article 2(7) Chapter I, UN Charter; which was the Rule of Law.
> 
> Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the *domestic jurisdiction of any state* or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter, but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII.​
> In this case, the Israel War of Independence was instigated by the Arab League, they made a conspiratorial and coordinated attack with impacted the "domestic jurisdiction" of the new state and the reaction fit the requirements of "self-defense."
> 
> Additionally, the conspiratorial and coordinated attack was executed in order to stop the implementation of the outine in the Resolution of 29 November 1948 • A/RES/181(II) • the establishment of the proposed Jewish State _(Part II • Boundaries -- Paragraph B • Jewish State)_ and the execution of Jewish Self-Determination.   In doing so, the Arab League conspired to intentionally violate The Purpose and Principles of the UN Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chapter I • Purpose and Principles said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of *equal rights and self-determination of peoples*, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And this is only the thumbnail view.  But it is important to understand the attempt to manufacture an excuse to alibi schemes to accomplish some end, in the criminal realm:
> 
> ◈ Intended to harm the sovereignty of a state and constitute solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute a grave collective danger, to the people forming that state.
> 
> ◈  Actively advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government.
> 
> ◈  The active use of foreign intervention and foreign military force to overcome a UN sanctioned operation under the administration of the UN Palestine Commission.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was not attacked in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel was attacked by the armies of Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon and Iraq.  At least Billo Really has a grasp on reality when he says they came to restore international law or protect the Palestinians, however wrong that analysis may be.  But to say Israel wasn't attacked might earn you a room in a mental institution, frankly.
Click to expand...

Ignore BillyGoat; he will never give in to facts.[/QUOTE]


Indeependent said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Billo_Really, et al,
> 
> You have this backward.
> 
> QUOTE="Billo_Really, post: 22122828, member: 2873"]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> No. Israel lost those lands in the 1948 defensive war started when five Arab armies with absolutely no rights to any of that territory invaded and captured it. It was liberated in 1967 and returned to its rightful sovereign.
> 
> Of all the States which existed in 1948, ONLY Israel had sovereign possession of that territory. By law.
> 
> 
> 
> Those Arab armies went in with the intention of restoring the rule of law.
> 
> What did I tell you about moving the goal posts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The 1948 invasion _(of the UN Trusteeship and the newly formed State of Israel) _was Article 2(7) Chapter I, UN Charter; which was the Rule of Law.
> 
> Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the *domestic jurisdiction of any state* or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter, but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII.​
> In this case, the Israel War of Independence was instigated by the Arab League, they made a conspiratorial and coordinated attack with impacted the "domestic jurisdiction" of the new state and the reaction fit the requirements of "self-defense."
> 
> Additionally, the conspiratorial and coordinated attack was executed in order to stop the implementation of the outine in the Resolution of 29 November 1948 • A/RES/181(II) • the establishment of the proposed Jewish State _(Part II • Boundaries -- Paragraph B • Jewish State)_ and the execution of Jewish Self-Determination.   In doing so, the Arab League conspired to intentionally violate The Purpose and Principles of the UN Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chapter I • Purpose and Principles said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of *equal rights and self-determination of peoples*, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And this is only the thumbnail view.  But it is important to understand the attempt to manufacture an excuse to alibi schemes to accomplish some end, in the criminal realm:
> 
> ◈ Intended to harm the sovereignty of a state and constitute solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute a grave collective danger, to the people forming that state.
> 
> ◈  Actively advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government.
> 
> ◈  The active use of foreign intervention and foreign military force to overcome a UN sanctioned operation under the administration of the UN Palestine Commission.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was not attacked in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel was attacked by the armies of Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon and Iraq.  At least Billo Really has a grasp on reality when he says they came to restore international law or protect the Palestinians, however wrong that analysis may be.  But to say Israel wasn't attacked might earn you a room in a mental institution, frankly.
Click to expand...

Ignore BillyGoat; he will never give in to facts.[/QUOTE]

BillyGoat says that Israel was attacked but the attack was justified (though I don't agree, of course).  Tinmore says that Israel was never attacked at all.  My point was:  Who has the better grasp on reality?  In this case, it's BillyGoat.  At least he admits that an attack on Israel took place.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Billo_Really, et al,
> 
> You have this backward.
> 
> QUOTE="Billo_Really, post: 22122828, member: 2873"]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> No. Israel lost those lands in the 1948 defensive war started when five Arab armies with absolutely no rights to any of that territory invaded and captured it. It was liberated in 1967 and returned to its rightful sovereign.
> 
> Of all the States which existed in 1948, ONLY Israel had sovereign possession of that territory. By law.
> 
> 
> 
> Those Arab armies went in with the intention of restoring the rule of law.
> 
> What did I tell you about moving the goal posts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The 1948 invasion _(of the UN Trusteeship and the newly formed State of Israel) _was Article 2(7) Chapter I, UN Charter; which was the Rule of Law.
> 
> Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the *domestic jurisdiction of any state* or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter, but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII.​
> In this case, the Israel War of Independence was instigated by the Arab League, they made a conspiratorial and coordinated attack with impacted the "domestic jurisdiction" of the new state and the reaction fit the requirements of "self-defense."
> 
> Additionally, the conspiratorial and coordinated attack was executed in order to stop the implementation of the outine in the Resolution of 29 November 1948 • A/RES/181(II) • the establishment of the proposed Jewish State _(Part II • Boundaries -- Paragraph B • Jewish State)_ and the execution of Jewish Self-Determination.   In doing so, the Arab League conspired to intentionally violate The Purpose and Principles of the UN Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chapter I • Purpose and Principles said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of *equal rights and self-determination of peoples*, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And this is only the thumbnail view.  But it is important to understand the attempt to manufacture an excuse to alibi schemes to accomplish some end, in the criminal realm:
> 
> ◈ Intended to harm the sovereignty of a state and constitute solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute a grave collective danger, to the people forming that state.
> 
> ◈  Actively advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government.
> 
> ◈  The active use of foreign intervention and foreign military force to overcome a UN sanctioned operation under the administration of the UN Palestine Commission.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was not attacked in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel was attacked by the armies of Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon and Iraq.  At least Billo Really has a grasp on reality when he says they came to restore international law or protect the Palestinians, however wrong that analysis may be.  But to say Israel wasn't attacked might earn you a room in a mental institution, frankly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ignore BillyGoat; he will never give in to facts.
Click to expand...




Indeependent said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Billo_Really, et al,
> 
> You have this backward.
> 
> QUOTE="Billo_Really, post: 22122828, member: 2873"]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> No. Israel lost those lands in the 1948 defensive war started when five Arab armies with absolutely no rights to any of that territory invaded and captured it. It was liberated in 1967 and returned to its rightful sovereign.
> 
> Of all the States which existed in 1948, ONLY Israel had sovereign possession of that territory. By law.
> 
> 
> 
> Those Arab armies went in with the intention of restoring the rule of law.
> 
> What did I tell you about moving the goal posts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The 1948 invasion _(of the UN Trusteeship and the newly formed State of Israel) _was Article 2(7) Chapter I, UN Charter; which was the Rule of Law.
> 
> Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the *domestic jurisdiction of any state* or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter, but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII.​
> In this case, the Israel War of Independence was instigated by the Arab League, they made a conspiratorial and coordinated attack with impacted the "domestic jurisdiction" of the new state and the reaction fit the requirements of "self-defense."
> 
> Additionally, the conspiratorial and coordinated attack was executed in order to stop the implementation of the outine in the Resolution of 29 November 1948 • A/RES/181(II) • the establishment of the proposed Jewish State _(Part II • Boundaries -- Paragraph B • Jewish State)_ and the execution of Jewish Self-Determination.   In doing so, the Arab League conspired to intentionally violate The Purpose and Principles of the UN Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chapter I • Purpose and Principles said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of *equal rights and self-determination of peoples*, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And this is only the thumbnail view.  But it is important to understand the attempt to manufacture an excuse to alibi schemes to accomplish some end, in the criminal realm:
> 
> ◈ Intended to harm the sovereignty of a state and constitute solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute a grave collective danger, to the people forming that state.
> 
> ◈  Actively advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government.
> 
> ◈  The active use of foreign intervention and foreign military force to overcome a UN sanctioned operation under the administration of the UN Palestine Commission.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was not attacked in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel was attacked by the armies of Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon and Iraq.  At least Billo Really has a grasp on reality when he says they came to restore international law or protect the Palestinians, however wrong that analysis may be.  But to say Israel wasn't attacked might earn you a room in a mental institution, frankly.
Click to expand...

Ignore BillyGoat; he will never give in to facts.[/QUOTE]

BillyGoat says that Israel was attacked but the attack was justified (though I don't agree, of course).  Tinmore says that Israel was never attacked at all.  My point was:  Who has the better grasp on reality?  In this case, it's BillyGoat.  At least he admits that an attack on Israel took place.[/QUOTE]
The Arab armies entered Palestine and fought Israel forces in Palestine but there was no attack on Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  Billo_Really, et al,
> 
> You have this backward.
> 
> QUOTE="Billo_Really, post: 22122828, member: 2873"]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> No. Israel lost those lands in the 1948 defensive war started when five Arab armies with absolutely no rights to any of that territory invaded and captured it. It was liberated in 1967 and returned to its rightful sovereign.
> 
> Of all the States which existed in 1948, ONLY Israel had sovereign possession of that territory. By law.
> 
> 
> 
> Those Arab armies went in with the intention of restoring the rule of law.
> 
> What did I tell you about moving the goal posts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The 1948 invasion _(of the UN Trusteeship and the newly formed State of Israel) _was Article 2(7) Chapter I, UN Charter; which was the Rule of Law.
> 
> Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the *domestic jurisdiction of any state* or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter, but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII.​
> In this case, the Israel War of Independence was instigated by the Arab League, they made a conspiratorial and coordinated attack with impacted the "domestic jurisdiction" of the new state and the reaction fit the requirements of "self-defense."
> 
> Additionally, the conspiratorial and coordinated attack was executed in order to stop the implementation of the outine in the Resolution of 29 November 1948 • A/RES/181(II) • the establishment of the proposed Jewish State _(Part II • Boundaries -- Paragraph B • Jewish State)_ and the execution of Jewish Self-Determination.   In doing so, the Arab League conspired to intentionally violate The Purpose and Principles of the UN Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chapter I • Purpose and Principles said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of *equal rights and self-determination of peoples*, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And this is only the thumbnail view.  But it is important to understand the attempt to manufacture an excuse to alibi schemes to accomplish some end, in the criminal realm:
> 
> ◈ Intended to harm the sovereignty of a state and constitute solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute a grave collective danger, to the people forming that state.
> 
> ◈  Actively advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government.
> 
> ◈  The active use of foreign intervention and foreign military force to overcome a UN sanctioned operation under the administration of the UN Palestine Commission.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was not attacked in 1948
> 
> Israel was attacked by the armies of Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon and Iraq.  At least Billo Really has a grasp on reality when he says they came to restore international law or protect the Palestinians, however wrong that analysis may be.  But to say Israel wasn't attacked might earn you a room in a mental institution, frankly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you believe Israel's bullshit talking point, why don't you post a 1948 map of Israel and show where it was entered?
> 
> That's a good boy.
Click to expand...


You wrote in post 2716 that Israel was not attacked. Now you acknowledge that Israel was attacked. 

That's a good (befuddled) boy.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Arab armies entered Palestine and fought Israel forces in Palestine but there was no attack on Israel.



Tinmore's claim is that Israel does not exist, therefore it is impossible to attack Israel.  

But if you want to play silly word games, Tinmore, you can say that the five Arab armies attacked the Jewish Homeland of Palestine.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab armies entered Palestine and fought Israel forces in Palestine but there was no attack on Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore's claim is that Israel does not exist, therefore it is impossible to attack Israel.
> 
> But if you want to play silly word games, Tinmore, you can say that the five Arab armies attacked the Jewish Homeland of Palestine.
Click to expand...


What nonsense!  He could perhaps get a job teaching abstract philosophy somewhere. but he could never negotiate Middle East peace.  If there is no place called Israel, how can there be "Israeli forces"?  I guess he doesn't want to say "Jewish forces" because he doesn't want to be labeled an anti-Semite.


----------



## Shusha

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab armies entered Palestine and fought Israel forces in Palestine but there was no attack on Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore's claim is that Israel does not exist, therefore it is impossible to attack Israel.
> 
> But if you want to play silly word games, Tinmore, you can say that the five Arab armies attacked the Jewish Homeland of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What nonsense!  He could perhaps get a job teaching abstract philosophy somewhere. but he could never negotiate Middle East peace.  If there is no place called Israel, how can there be "Israeli forces"?  I guess he doesn't want to say "Jewish forces" because he doesn't want to be labeled an anti-Semite.
Click to expand...


He should have stuck with his usual "foreign settler colonialists".


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas and other Gaza terror groups said to order halt to arson balloon launches


----------



## rylah

Arab report: 

"Preliminary: Israeli army detonates an explosive device planted at the northern border of the Gaza Strip"

دنيا الوطن on Twitter


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Sure enough. Scratch an antisemite and eventually the truth comes out.


Why would I hate Jews?

I will tell you this, if I had to choose, I'd rather be an anti-Semite than an Israeli kiss-ass.  Fortunately, I'm neither.  I'm the most objective opinion on this issue.


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> Usually it takes a seriously disturbed impotent...


You call bullshit innuendo's a serious response?


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Oh look. There we go again. Scratch an antisemite.


Why would I hate Jews?


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> You forgot to say "but it's totally fine they're Arabs"


It wasn't outlawed until after WWII.


----------



## Billo_Really

The Original Tree said:


> Yes I know that.  Would you prefer I call them Christian Israelis?
> 
> Everyone knows what a Messianic Jew is.
> You do not have to abandon being Jewish to follow Christ.
> 
> What would a Jewish person prefer we call a Hebrew that believes in Yahshua?


People who deliberately murder innocent civilians, do not follow Christ.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot to say "but it's totally fine they're Arabs"
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't outlawed until after WWII.
Click to expand...


But You thirst for Arab exclusivist domination over the entire middle east
is somehow exempt from that law?


----------



## Billo_Really

Indeependent said:


> Drunken, Irish “Catholic” pos beaten up regularly by his dad.


I'll have you know the Irish are required to drink........._by law._


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Billo_Really

Indeependent said:


> It’s sad; he hangs out with self-Hating Jews.


Is the reason you are trying to hijack the thread and change the topic of discussion because you have no defense of Israel shooting journalists, medics, children and the handicapped during these March of Return protests?


----------



## Billo_Really

The Original Tree said:


> So Messiah is talked about in the OT.
> 
> So how is someone uneducated if they believe that Messiah came as Messiah Bin David and presented Himself to Jerusalem in 27 AD?
> And was crucified in 30 AD and 40 years later not one stone was left upon another when The Romans tore down the Temple.
> 
> Was He not Messiah Bin Joseph?  The Lamb of God?  Did not God promise Isaac A Lamb to take the place of Jacob?
> 
> Was not Jesus called The Lamb of God?
> 
> Did not Daniel talk about 490 years “70 weeks”
> being determined upon Israel and Messiah being cut off at 483 years or in the 69th Week?
> 
> 
> Book of Daniel 9:24-27
> 
> “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
> 
> “Know, therefore, and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah, the Prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks; the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
> 
> “And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself; and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary, and the end of it shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
> 
> “And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolator.”
> 
> Daniel 9:24-27
> 
> 
> Daniel’s Prophecy of the Seventy Weeks


What does that have to do with Palestinian's "massing" at the border?


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> I'm not actually Jewish. But I know a little bit. I'm sure others will join us. And I'll learn something too.


Why don't you learn why the Israeli's are killing innocent civilians?


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not actually Jewish. But I know a little bit. I'm sure others will join us. And I'll learn something too.
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you learn why the Israeli's are killing innocent civilians?
Click to expand...


What innocent civilians?


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> Learn the difference between civil, religious and political rights.
> Only the Jewish nation was vested with sovereignty over the whole of the territory.
> 
> By the way, that resolution became US law.


The Balfour Declaration did not make any distinction between the "civil, religious and political rights" of indigenous Palestinian's.  You cannot move into an area and automatically take away the rights of the people already living there.


----------



## xband

Hollie said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not actually Jewish. But I know a little bit. I'm sure others will join us. And I'll learn something too.
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you learn why the Israeli's are killing innocent civilians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What innocent civilians?
Click to expand...


Burn them innocent civilians up.


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> So You only hate most of Jews in the world?
> What a sweetheart... we should give You a prize for being only a mostly lowlife.



Even though attacking me has nothing to do with the thread topic, I have to ask again, why would I hate Jews?


----------



## Billo_Really

Indeependent said:


> Do you even read your own NT?
> The only people living at the time who followed him were the uneducated.
> The biggest crowd he ever gathered was a pathetic 5,000, which would be an embarrassment today in any indoor or outdoor stadium.
> He completely failed to usher in a period of peace.
> We’re still waiting.


If you and the Israelis had their way, you would arrest David, because he threw a rock!


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> But You thirst for Arab exclusivist domination over the entire middle east
> is somehow exempt from that law?


Stop trying to change the subject.  Palestinian's are "massing" at the border to protest the inhuman (and immoral) conditions the Israeli's are forcing them to live under.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Learn the difference between civil, religious and political rights.
> Only the Jewish nation was vested with sovereignty over the whole of the territory.
> 
> By the way, that resolution became US law.
> 
> 
> 
> The Balfour Declaration did not make any distinction between the "civil, religious and political rights" of indigenous Palestinian's.  You cannot move into an area and automatically take away the rights of the people already living there.
Click to expand...


What rights were taken away?


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> But You thirst for Arab exclusivist domination over the entire middle east
> is somehow exempt from that law?
> 
> 
> 
> Stop trying to change the subject.  Palestinian's are "massing" at the border to protest the inhuman (and immoral) conditions the Israeli's are forcing them to live under.
Click to expand...


Actually, no. They’re massing in a failed attempt to breach the Israeli border and “rip the hearts out” of Israelis. 

Try paying attention to what Hamas actually says and you might be able to offer relevant comments.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> What rights were taken away?


The right to receive discounts on Milky.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What rights were taken away?
> 
> 
> 
> The right to receive discounts on Milky.
Click to expand...


I knew you would abandon ship.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Actually, no. They’re massing in a failed attempt to breach the Israeli border and “rip the hearts out” of Israelis.
> 
> Try paying attention to what Hamas actually says and you might be able to offer relevant comments.


And you're a fucking liar!

*‘The Essence of Being Palestinian’: What the Great March of Return is Really About*
_
Their protests are a collective statement, a cry for justice, an ultimate reclamation of their narrative as a people—still standing, still powerful and still hopeful after 70 years of Nakba, 50 years of military occupation and 12 years of unrelenting siege._​


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, no. They’re massing in a failed attempt to breach the Israeli border and “rip the hearts out” of Israelis.
> 
> Try paying attention to what Hamas actually says and you might be able to offer relevant comments.
> 
> 
> 
> And you're a fucking liar!
> 
> *‘The Essence of Being Palestinian’: What the Great March of Return is Really About*
> _
> Their protests are a collective statement, a cry for justice, an ultimate reclamation of their narrative as a people—still standing, still powerful and still hopeful after 70 years of Nakba, 50 years of military occupation and 12 years of unrelenting siege._​
Click to expand...


Common dreams is a web tabloid. 

Did you listen to what Hamas has said?  This may come as a shock to you but Hamas is at the border gee-had. Your web tabloid writers are not.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> Common dreams is a web tabloid.
> 
> Did you listen to what Hamas has said?  This may come as a shock to you but Hamas is at the border gee-had. Your web tabloid writers are not.


Ad hominems are not valid rebuttals.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Common dreams is a web tabloid.
> 
> Did you listen to what Hamas has said?  This may come as a shock to you but Hamas is at the border gee-had. Your web tabloid writers are not.
> 
> 
> 
> Ad hominems are not valid rebuttals.
Click to expand...


Why do you use them?


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Usually it takes a seriously disturbed impotent...
> 
> 
> 
> You call bullshit innuendo's a serious response?
Click to expand...

The scared Jihadi duck dance show is indeed a comic show.

'Serious' is not th word You're looking, it's sincerity, and it leaves the argument each time these stupid slogans are parroted by the mindless sheeple.

Antisemitism is indeed an intellectual impotency, losers who blame their misfortunes in life on the image of an ever evil, all powerful Jew. Usually completely irrationally eccentric in expression, psychotic characters.

It just happens that open haters of Israel usually only start there, and express open hate towards a wide range of citizens of the US itself.

No wonder they join those who burn the US flag...


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Learn the difference between civil, religious and political rights.
> Only the Jewish nation was vested with sovereignty over the whole of the territory.
> 
> By the way, that resolution became US law.
> 
> 
> 
> The Balfour Declaration did not make any distinction between the "civil, religious and political rights" of indigenous Palestinian's.  You cannot move into an area and automatically take away the rights of the people already living there.
Click to expand...


Actually it did, civil and religious rights were particularly mentioned,
political rights were always discussed in the context of the Jewish national home, and its re-constitution.

No creation of an Arab nation was mentioned, in the Balfour Declaration or following international law in regards to Palestine. Only the Jewish nation was vested with sovereignty over the entire territory under international law, and all mandate to create or govern the country came from an obligation to help facilitate the re-constitution of the sovereign Jewish nation.

Arabs got political rights in he rest of 99.9% of the territory in the middle east.
Israel is a Jewish reservation in a sea of Arab countries.

I didn't move in and take anyone's rights, my family lives in the land for 20 generations.
Most of Israelis are descendants of dhimmis who lived under Muslim subjugation in lands that they predate Islam itself,
but You won't dare touch that subject.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure enough. Scratch an antisemite and eventually the truth comes out.
> 
> 
> 
> Why would I hate Jews?
> 
> I will tell you this, if I had to choose, I'd rather be an anti-Semite than an Israeli kiss-ass.  Fortunately, I'm neither.  I'm the most objective opinion on this issue.
Click to expand...


Objective my ass!  You complain about Israel killing "innocent civilians" (in reality violent rioters) while entirely supporting Arabs murdering Israeli innocent civilians who are actually innocent civilians.


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, no. They’re massing in a failed attempt to breach the Israeli border and “rip the hearts out” of Israelis.
> 
> Try paying attention to what Hamas actually says and you might be able to offer relevant comments.
> 
> 
> 
> And you're a fucking liar!
> 
> *‘The Essence of Being Palestinian’: What the Great March of Return is Really About*
> _
> Their protests are a collective statement, a cry for justice, an ultimate reclamation of their narrative as a people—still standing, still powerful and still hopeful after 70 years of Nakba, 50 years of military occupation and 12 years of unrelenting siege._​
Click to expand...

No you are the liar. Palestinians want to breech the border and kill Jews.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Incite them and they will Come, and come and come and come ]

Even as Israel grapples with rocket attacks from the Gaza Strip and massive protests along the Gazan border with Israel, the Israeli military continues to be on the lookout for incidents on a smaller scale but which can still lead to attacks on Israeli soldiers.

“IDF troops fired at three suspects who had crossed into Israeli territory from the southern Gaza Strip. Knives were found in their possession,” said an Israeli military statement which was released on Wednesday night. The AFP news agency reported that the three were taken to an Israeli hospital.

The overall situation along the border has quieted down as Egypt has mediated between Israel and the Hamas terror group on calming the situation. Israel has taken goodwill gestures which include opening border crossings to pedestrians and commercial activity as well as extending the fishing zone off the Gazan coast.

(full article online)

Three Palestinians with Knives Cross from Gaza, Shot by IDF Soldiers


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> The scared Jihadi duck dance show is indeed a comic show.
> 
> 'Serious' is not th word You're looking, it's sincerity, and it leaves the argument each time these stupid slogans are parroted by the mindless sheeple.
> 
> Antisemitism is indeed an intellectual impotency, losers who blame their misfortunes in life on the image of an ever evil, all powerful Jew. Usually completely irrationally eccentric in expression, psychotic characters.
> 
> It just happens that open haters of Israel usually only start there, and express open hate towards a wide range of citizens of the US itself.
> 
> No wonder they join those who burn the US flag...


I didn't say anything about Jews.


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> Actually it did, civil and religious rights were particularly mentioned,
> political rights were always discussed in the context of the Jewish national home, and its re-constitution.
> 
> No creation of an Arab nation was mentioned, in the Balfour Declaration or following international law in regards to Palestine. Only the Jewish nation was vested with sovereignty over the entire territory under international law, and all mandate to create or govern the country came from an obligation to help facilitate the re-constitution of the sovereign Jewish nation.
> 
> Arabs got political rights in he rest of 99.9% of the territory in the middle east.
> Israel is a Jewish reservation in a sea of Arab countries.
> 
> I didn't move in and take anyone's rights, my family lives in the land for 20 generations.
> Most of Israelis are descendants of dhimmis who lived under Muslim subjugation in lands that they predate Islam itself,
> but You won't dare touch that subject.


This is the Balfour Declaration word-for-word...

_His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, *it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine*, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country._​Actually, you're right.  It did mention religious and civil rights.  Unfortunately, that's as right as you got.  *"...it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine."  *

WTF do you think that means?  I'll tell ya what it means; it means something you didn't do!


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Objective my ass!  You complain about Israel killing "innocent civilians" (in reality violent rioters) while entirely supporting Arabs murdering Israeli innocent civilians who are actually innocent civilians.


No Israeli's have been killed during these Right of Return protests.  Over 200 Palestinian's were killed and over 6,000 Palestinian's injured.  You shot a medic!  How is that a violent rioter?  You shot a man in a wheelchair.  How is that a violent rioter?  You shot a journalist wearing a large yellow vest.  How is that a violent rioter?  You shot a guy just standing there having a cigarette.  How is that a violent rioter?  

A UN report says the majority of Palestinian's were peaceful protesters.  And of the very few that weren't, they were guilty of flying kites and cutting fences.  Both actions do not allow you to respond with deadly force.  Your life has to be in immediate danger in order for you to legally respond with deadly force.

I know Israel shot these people in cold blood.  How do I know?  Your posts convinced me of that.  Your posts make it absolutely clear you don't give a shit about Palestinian life.  And that's the mind set you have to have in order to commit those atrocities.  The Germans did it to the Jews.  And you do it to the Palestinian's.  Same hate; different era.


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> No you are the liar. Palestinians want to breech the border and kill Jews.


You say that because you don't have the balls to be a responsible person.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Objective my ass!  You complain about Israel killing "innocent civilians" (in reality violent rioters) while entirely supporting Arabs murdering Israeli innocent civilians who are actually innocent civilians.
> 
> 
> 
> No Israeli's have been killed during these Right of Return protests.  Over 200 Palestinian's were killed and over 6,000 Palestinian's injured.  You shot a medic!  How is that a violent rioter?  You shot a man in a wheelchair.  How is that a violent rioter?  You shot a journalist wearing a large yellow vest.  How is that a violent rioter?  You shot a guy just standing there having a cigarette.  How is that a violent rioter?
> 
> A UN report says the majority of Palestinian's were peaceful protesters.  And of the very few that weren't, they were guilty of flying kites and cutting fences.  Both actions do not allow you to respond with deadly force.  Your life has to be in immediate danger in order for you to legally respond with deadly force.
> 
> I know Israel shot these people in cold blood.  How do I know?  Your posts convinced me of that.  Your posts make it absolutely clear you don't give a shit about Palestinian life.  And that's the mind set you have to have in order to commit those atrocities.  The Germans did it to the Jews.  And you do it to the Palestinian's.  Same hate; different era.
Click to expand...


I can give you 3.5 / 5 for that impassioned, weapy-eyed yet pompous, over-played and just plain phony diatribe.


----------



## The Original Tree

Responsible is to pick up your squatter stakes and move your ass to Transjordan 





Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> No you are the liar. Palestinians want to breech the border and kill Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> You say that because you don't have the balls to be a responsible person.
Click to expand...


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> No Israeli's have been killed during these Right of Return protests.


Not true.



> Your life has to be in immediate danger in order for you to legally respond with deadly force.


This is not true, but let's go with it.  

So you agree that it is absolutely illegal for Arab Gazans to use lethal force in the form of guns, grenades, knives, firebombs, rockets and mortars, yes?


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Your posts make it absolutely clear you don't give a shit about Palestinian life.



On the contrary.  I care very much about Arab Palestinian lives.  

We just disagree on whose responsibility it is to protect Arab Palestinian lives.  You want to put all the responsibility on Israel.  I want to put responsibility where it properly belongs:  on the Arab Palestinians.

The Arab government in Gaza needs to:
1.  Stop attacking Israel.
2.  Actively police the border protests to remove terrorist actions and violence against Israel.
3.  Prevent children, the disabled and other vulnerable groups from approaching the border.
4.  Stop smuggling weapons into Gaza.
5.  Spend available $ on building infrastructure for the people of Gaza, rather than on violence and terror.
6.  Stop inciting violence and calling for violence.
7.  Accept Israel as a peaceful neighbor.  

Now, Mr. Objective, do you agree that Gaza should do these things?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it did, civil and religious rights were particularly mentioned,
> political rights were always discussed in the context of the Jewish national home, and its re-constitution.
> 
> No creation of an Arab nation was mentioned, in the Balfour Declaration or following international law in regards to Palestine. Only the Jewish nation was vested with sovereignty over the entire territory under international law, and all mandate to create or govern the country came from an obligation to help facilitate the re-constitution of the sovereign Jewish nation.
> 
> Arabs got political rights in he rest of 99.9% of the territory in the middle east.
> Israel is a Jewish reservation in a sea of Arab countries.
> 
> I didn't move in and take anyone's rights, my family lives in the land for 20 generations.
> Most of Israelis are descendants of dhimmis who lived under Muslim subjugation in lands that they predate Islam itself,
> but You won't dare touch that subject.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the Balfour Declaration word-for-word...
> 
> _His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, *it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine*, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country._​Actually, you're right.  It did mention religious and civil rights.  Unfortunately, that's as right as you got.  *"...it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine."  *
> 
> WTF do you think that means?  I'll tell ya what it means; it means something you didn't do!
Click to expand...

And besides, rights are universal. Nobody can tell you what you have or don't have.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it did, civil and religious rights were particularly mentioned,
> political rights were always discussed in the context of the Jewish national home, and its re-constitution.
> 
> No creation of an Arab nation was mentioned, in the Balfour Declaration or following international law in regards to Palestine. Only the Jewish nation was vested with sovereignty over the entire territory under international law, and all mandate to create or govern the country came from an obligation to help facilitate the re-constitution of the sovereign Jewish nation.
> 
> Arabs got political rights in he rest of 99.9% of the territory in the middle east.
> Israel is a Jewish reservation in a sea of Arab countries.
> 
> I didn't move in and take anyone's rights, my family lives in the land for 20 generations.
> Most of Israelis are descendants of dhimmis who lived under Muslim subjugation in lands that they predate Islam itself,
> but You won't dare touch that subject.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the Balfour Declaration word-for-word...
> 
> _His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, *it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine*, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country._​Actually, you're right.  It did mention religious and civil rights.  Unfortunately, that's as right as you got.  *"...it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine."  *
> 
> WTF do you think that means?  I'll tell ya what it means; it means something you didn't do!
Click to expand...


It means exactly what I said - civil and religious rights, political rights weren't vested in an Arab nation, but specifically mentioned regarding the sovereign nation under international law.

In fact not in any of the Arab or Muslim countries do average citizens enjoy the same level of freedoms and quality of life as Israel provides to its non-Jewish citizens.

Israel is the 11th happiest country in the world for a reason.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it did, civil and religious rights were particularly mentioned,
> political rights were always discussed in the context of the Jewish national home, and its re-constitution.
> 
> No creation of an Arab nation was mentioned, in the Balfour Declaration or following international law in regards to Palestine. Only the Jewish nation was vested with sovereignty over the entire territory under international law, and all mandate to create or govern the country came from an obligation to help facilitate the re-constitution of the sovereign Jewish nation.
> 
> Arabs got political rights in he rest of 99.9% of the territory in the middle east.
> Israel is a Jewish reservation in a sea of Arab countries.
> 
> I didn't move in and take anyone's rights, my family lives in the land for 20 generations.
> Most of Israelis are descendants of dhimmis who lived under Muslim subjugation in lands that they predate Islam itself,
> but You won't dare touch that subject.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the Balfour Declaration word-for-word...
> 
> _His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, *it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine*, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country._​Actually, you're right.  It did mention religious and civil rights.  Unfortunately, that's as right as you got.  *"...it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine."  *
> 
> WTF do you think that means?  I'll tell ya what it means; it means something you didn't do!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And besides, rights are universal. Nobody can tell you what you have or don't have.
Click to expand...


The universal declaration of human rights, deals with individual rights,
not national rights or sovereignty.

Thats exactly the point, the confusion between national and personal rights.

But even on a personal level in any functional democracy the police, army and the courts are indeed authorized to take away a citizens' personal rights- therefore Your conclusion is wrong as well.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it did, civil and religious rights were particularly mentioned,
> political rights were always discussed in the context of the Jewish national home, and its re-constitution.
> 
> No creation of an Arab nation was mentioned, in the Balfour Declaration or following international law in regards to Palestine. Only the Jewish nation was vested with sovereignty over the entire territory under international law, and all mandate to create or govern the country came from an obligation to help facilitate the re-constitution of the sovereign Jewish nation.
> 
> Arabs got political rights in he rest of 99.9% of the territory in the middle east.
> Israel is a Jewish reservation in a sea of Arab countries.
> 
> I didn't move in and take anyone's rights, my family lives in the land for 20 generations.
> Most of Israelis are descendants of dhimmis who lived under Muslim subjugation in lands that they predate Islam itself,
> but You won't dare touch that subject.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the Balfour Declaration word-for-word...
> 
> _His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, *it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine*, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country._​Actually, you're right.  It did mention religious and civil rights.  Unfortunately, that's as right as you got.  *"...it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine."  *
> 
> WTF do you think that means?  I'll tell ya what it means; it means something you didn't do!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And besides, rights are universal. Nobody can tell you what you have or don't have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The universal declaration of human rights, deals with individual rights,
> not national rights or sovereignty.
> 
> Thats exactly the point, the confusion between national and personal rights.
> But even on a personal level in any functional democracy the police, army and the courts are indeed authorized to take away a citizens' rights- therefore Your conclusion is wrong as well.
Click to expand...

Rights can only be taken away by a legitimate court with proper due process. This has never happened with Palestinians.

It is always Palestinians don't have rights blah, blah, blah.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it did, civil and religious rights were particularly mentioned,
> political rights were always discussed in the context of the Jewish national home, and its re-constitution.
> 
> No creation of an Arab nation was mentioned, in the Balfour Declaration or following international law in regards to Palestine. Only the Jewish nation was vested with sovereignty over the entire territory under international law, and all mandate to create or govern the country came from an obligation to help facilitate the re-constitution of the sovereign Jewish nation.
> 
> Arabs got political rights in he rest of 99.9% of the territory in the middle east.
> Israel is a Jewish reservation in a sea of Arab countries.
> 
> I didn't move in and take anyone's rights, my family lives in the land for 20 generations.
> Most of Israelis are descendants of dhimmis who lived under Muslim subjugation in lands that they predate Islam itself,
> but You won't dare touch that subject.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the Balfour Declaration word-for-word...
> 
> _His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, *it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine*, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country._​Actually, you're right.  It did mention religious and civil rights.  Unfortunately, that's as right as you got.  *"...it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine."  *
> 
> WTF do you think that means?  I'll tell ya what it means; it means something you didn't do!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And besides, rights are universal. Nobody can tell you what you have or don't have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The universal declaration of human rights, deals with individual rights,
> not national rights or sovereignty.
> 
> Thats exactly the point, the confusion between national and personal rights.
> But even on a personal level in any functional democracy the police, army and the courts are indeed authorized to take away a citizens' rights- therefore Your conclusion is wrong as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rights can only be taken away by a legitimate court with proper due process. This has never happened with Palestinians.
> 
> It is always Palestinians don't have rights blah, blah, blah.
Click to expand...

Tell that to all the Palestinians who have their rights taken away by Hamas on a daily basis in Gaza.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it did, civil and religious rights were particularly mentioned,
> political rights were always discussed in the context of the Jewish national home, and its re-constitution.
> 
> No creation of an Arab nation was mentioned, in the Balfour Declaration or following international law in regards to Palestine. Only the Jewish nation was vested with sovereignty over the entire territory under international law, and all mandate to create or govern the country came from an obligation to help facilitate the re-constitution of the sovereign Jewish nation.
> 
> Arabs got political rights in he rest of 99.9% of the territory in the middle east.
> Israel is a Jewish reservation in a sea of Arab countries.
> 
> I didn't move in and take anyone's rights, my family lives in the land for 20 generations.
> Most of Israelis are descendants of dhimmis who lived under Muslim subjugation in lands that they predate Islam itself,
> but You won't dare touch that subject.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the Balfour Declaration word-for-word...
> 
> _His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, *it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine*, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country._​Actually, you're right.  It did mention religious and civil rights.  Unfortunately, that's as right as you got.  *"...it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine."  *
> 
> WTF do you think that means?  I'll tell ya what it means; it means something you didn't do!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And besides, rights are universal. Nobody can tell you what you have or don't have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The universal declaration of human rights, deals with individual rights,
> not national rights or sovereignty.
> 
> Thats exactly the point, the confusion between national and personal rights.
> But even on a personal level in any functional democracy the police, army and the courts are indeed authorized to take away a citizens' rights- therefore Your conclusion is wrong as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rights can only be taken away by a legitimate court with proper due process. This has never happened with Palestinians.
> 
> It is always Palestinians don't have rights blah, blah, blah.
Click to expand...


Actually, in that part of the world,
only in Israel do Arab citizens have those rights.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it did, civil and religious rights were particularly mentioned,
> political rights were always discussed in the context of the Jewish national home, and its re-constitution.
> 
> No creation of an Arab nation was mentioned, in the Balfour Declaration or following international law in regards to Palestine. Only the Jewish nation was vested with sovereignty over the entire territory under international law, and all mandate to create or govern the country came from an obligation to help facilitate the re-constitution of the sovereign Jewish nation.
> 
> Arabs got political rights in he rest of 99.9% of the territory in the middle east.
> Israel is a Jewish reservation in a sea of Arab countries.
> 
> I didn't move in and take anyone's rights, my family lives in the land for 20 generations.
> Most of Israelis are descendants of dhimmis who lived under Muslim subjugation in lands that they predate Islam itself,
> but You won't dare touch that subject.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the Balfour Declaration word-for-word...
> 
> _His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, *it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine*, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country._​Actually, you're right.  It did mention religious and civil rights.  Unfortunately, that's as right as you got.  *"...it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine."  *
> 
> WTF do you think that means?  I'll tell ya what it means; it means something you didn't do!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And besides, rights are universal. Nobody can tell you what you have or don't have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The universal declaration of human rights, deals with individual rights,
> not national rights or sovereignty.
> 
> Thats exactly the point, the confusion between national and personal rights.
> But even on a personal level in any functional democracy the police, army and the courts are indeed authorized to take away a citizens' rights- therefore Your conclusion is wrong as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rights can only be taken away by a legitimate court with proper due process. This has never happened with Palestinians.
> 
> It is always Palestinians don't have rights blah, blah, blah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tell that to all the Palestinians who have their rights taken away by Hamas on a daily basis in Gaza.
Click to expand...

Nice deflection.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is the Balfour Declaration word-for-word...
> 
> _His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, *it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine*, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country._​Actually, you're right.  It did mention religious and civil rights.  Unfortunately, that's as right as you got.  *"...it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine."  *
> 
> WTF do you think that means?  I'll tell ya what it means; it means something you didn't do!
> 
> 
> 
> And besides, rights are universal. Nobody can tell you what you have or don't have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The universal declaration of human rights, deals with individual rights,
> not national rights or sovereignty.
> 
> Thats exactly the point, the confusion between national and personal rights.
> But even on a personal level in any functional democracy the police, army and the courts are indeed authorized to take away a citizens' rights- therefore Your conclusion is wrong as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rights can only be taken away by a legitimate court with proper due process. This has never happened with Palestinians.
> 
> It is always Palestinians don't have rights blah, blah, blah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tell that to all the Palestinians who have their rights taken away by Hamas on a daily basis in Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection.
Click to expand...


Why is it?

Another Brutal Crackdown by Hamas in Gaza


----------



## Billo_Really

The Original Tree said:


> Responsible is to pick up your squatter stakes and move your ass to Transjordan


You're not squatting if you've lived there for generations.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> On the contrary.  I care very much about Arab Palestinian lives.
> 
> We just disagree on whose responsibility it is to protect Arab Palestinian lives.  You want to put all the responsibility on Israel.  I want to put responsibility where it properly belongs:  on the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> The Arab government in Gaza needs to:
> 1.  Stop attacking Israel.
> 2.  Actively police the border protests to remove terrorist actions and violence against Israel.
> 3.  Prevent children, the disabled and other vulnerable groups from approaching the border.
> 4.  Stop smuggling weapons into Gaza.
> 5.  Spend available $ on building infrastructure for the people of Gaza, rather than on violence and terror.
> 6.  Stop inciting violence and calling for violence.
> 7.  Accept Israel as a peaceful neighbor.
> 
> Now, Mr. Objective, do you agree that Gaza should do these things?


You don't blame Israel for anything.  You scapegoat the Palestinian's at every turn.  There is no empathy in your posts for the Pals.  The entire world is against you and you even refuse to believe that.  Your Eisenhower moment is coming.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it did, civil and religious rights were particularly mentioned,
> political rights were always discussed in the context of the Jewish national home, and its re-constitution.
> 
> No creation of an Arab nation was mentioned, in the Balfour Declaration or following international law in regards to Palestine. Only the Jewish nation was vested with sovereignty over the entire territory under international law, and all mandate to create or govern the country came from an obligation to help facilitate the re-constitution of the sovereign Jewish nation.
> 
> Arabs got political rights in he rest of 99.9% of the territory in the middle east.
> Israel is a Jewish reservation in a sea of Arab countries.
> 
> I didn't move in and take anyone's rights, my family lives in the land for 20 generations.
> Most of Israelis are descendants of dhimmis who lived under Muslim subjugation in lands that they predate Islam itself,
> but You won't dare touch that subject.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the Balfour Declaration word-for-word...
> 
> _His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, *it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine*, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country._​Actually, you're right.  It did mention religious and civil rights.  Unfortunately, that's as right as you got.  *"...it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine."  *
> 
> WTF do you think that means?  I'll tell ya what it means; it means something you didn't do!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And besides, rights are universal. Nobody can tell you what you have or don't have.
Click to expand...


Nice deflection.


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> It means exactly what I said - civil and religious rights, political rights weren't vested in an Arab nation, but specifically mentioned regarding the sovereign nation under international law.
> 
> In fact not in any of the Arab or Muslim countries do average citizens enjoy the same level of freedoms and quality of life as Israel provides to its non-Jewish citizens.
> 
> Israel is the 11th happiest country in the world for a reason.


I need to pull up my pant legs so they don't get dirty from this flow of bullshit you are pushing.


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> The universal declaration of human rights, deals with individual rights,
> not national rights or sovereignty.
> 
> Thats exactly the point, the confusion between national and personal rights.
> 
> But even on a personal level in any functional democracy the police, army and the courts are indeed authorized to take away a citizens' personal rights- therefore Your conclusion is wrong as well.


Nations don't have rights.


----------



## Billo_Really

Mindful said:


> Why is it?
> 
> Another Brutal Crackdown by Hamas in Gaza


Hamas is taking their que from the Israeli's.


----------



## Hollie

Billo_Really said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it?
> 
> Another Brutal Crackdown by Hamas in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas is taking their que from the Israeli's.
Click to expand...


You obviously missed it but Israel is approaching what we call "election of government officials". 

Islamic terrorist dictators generally don't provide for such things.


----------



## Mindful

Billo_Really said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it?
> 
> Another Brutal Crackdown by Hamas in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas is taking their que from the Israeli's.
Click to expand...


In what way?


----------



## The Original Tree

Billo_Really said:


> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Responsible is to pick up your squatter stakes and move your ass to Transjordan
> 
> 
> 
> You're not squatting if you've lived there for generations.
Click to expand...


*So 4,000 years of continual existence in the area, and a civilization of people that has outlasted Medo Persia, Assyria, Babylon, and The Roman Empires, surviving The Roman Holocaust of 1 Million Jews Exterminated, The Ottoman Empire Holocaust (Armenian Genocide) of 2 Million Jews Exterminated, and The Nazi Holocaust of 6 Million Jews Exterminated, vs. a few people that have hung around for about 100 years who are not even a genetically diverse group, but are a collection of people from Egypt, Syria, and Jordan?  And they already had a homeland designated for them in Transjordan that they refuse to go to?

The STOOPID is strong in you.  Besides that Israel's existence was guaranteed in the 1917 Balfour Declaration.

The only thing promised Arabs in that area was that they could practice their pagan religion and worship Satan-Allah.

Jews were digging tunnels to fight The Romans 2,000 years before you made up the fake people called Palestinians.

2,000-year-old desert settlement discovered in Israel, revealing ancient rebels' hidden tunnels*


----------



## Sixties Fan

Vice News Reporter's False Claim: "270 Children Killed in Gaza" | HonestReporting


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ If it is Friday, and Gaza says that there will be a non violent protest......this is what one gets. Yes, it becomes a habit hard to break.  ]

Despite reported calls by organizers and armed factions to avoid violence, as Israel and Hamas work to achieve a long-term truce, clashes were reported. Some protesters hurled rocks at Israeli troops, who responded with less-lethal measures. The Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza said 70 people had been injured, one of them critically.

(full article online)

Over 10,000 Palestinians said protesting at Gaza border, 70 injured


----------



## The Original Tree

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The universal declaration of human rights, deals with individual rights,
> not national rights or sovereignty.
> 
> Thats exactly the point, the confusion between national and personal rights.
> 
> But even on a personal level in any functional democracy the police, army and the courts are indeed authorized to take away a citizens' personal rights- therefore Your conclusion is wrong as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Nations don't have rights.
Click to expand...

*Guess your Nation doesn't have any rights then.  Besides, why are you wearing pants?  Shouldn't you be wearing a large potato sack from head to toe?*


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the contrary.  I care very much about Arab Palestinian lives.
> 
> We just disagree on whose responsibility it is to protect Arab Palestinian lives.  You want to put all the responsibility on Israel.  I want to put responsibility where it properly belongs:  on the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> The Arab government in Gaza needs to:
> 1.  Stop attacking Israel.
> 2.  Actively police the border protests to remove terrorist actions and violence against Israel.
> 3.  Prevent children, the disabled and other vulnerable groups from approaching the border.
> 4.  Stop smuggling weapons into Gaza.
> 5.  Spend available $ on building infrastructure for the people of Gaza, rather than on violence and terror.
> 6.  Stop inciting violence and calling for violence.
> 7.  Accept Israel as a peaceful neighbor.
> 
> Now, Mr. Objective, do you agree that Gaza should do these things?
> 
> 
> 
> You don't blame Israel for anything.  You scapegoat the Palestinian's at every turn.  There is no empathy in your posts for the Pals.  The entire world is against you and you even refuse to believe that.  Your Eisenhower moment is coming.
Click to expand...


You didn't answer my question, Mr. Objective.  Do you think that the government of Gaza should: stop attacking Israel; actively police the border protests to prevent violence; protect children and other vulnerable groups; stop smuggling weapons into Gaza; spend available money on infrastructure and not terror; stop inciting violence; accept Israel as a peaceful neighbor?  Yes or no?

As for me, when discussing Gaza, you are correct.  I don't put much responsibility on Israel.  That is because Israel has acted, in my opinion, with exquisite restraint in all the years since she ceded Gaza and ended the occupation there.  And she did so under extremely difficult circumstances.

Let's look again at the military difficulties at the Gaza border* in the past year.  The conditions are tens of thousands of people gathering at the border to protest.  Since the protest is built around a "right" to return, (though no such right actually exists in international law), there is a drive at the border to approach it, breach it, take it down.  Israeli citizens are 1/2 a km from this border.  The government of Gaza is willfully, intentionally inciting violence by calling to "rip the hearts out of Jews" and march to Jerusalem (which is not "return" by the way, but marching on the capital).  The government of Gaza is pressuring people to attend, providing transportation, and paying them to get injured.  

In this crowd at the border are children: babies, five-year-olds learning how to behave, children 15, 16, 17 who are indistinguishable at a distance from 18, 19, 20 year old adults and child soldiers.  There are journalists: some trying to get good images, and some perhaps working as militants.  There are medics, some of whom may also be militants.  There are unarmed militants.  There are armed militants. There are men and women throwing rocks (which are considered lethal weapons, btw).  There are people, especially children and young people, burning tires which provides cover for the militants.  There are children with knives who cut through the fence, only to whoop and shout and then return back.  There children and adults with knives who cut through the fence and attack Israeli soldiers.  There are terrorists planting IEDs at the fence line.  There are snipers.  There are people throwing grenades instead of rocks (can you tell the difference between a rock and a grenade from a distance)?  There are people flying firebombs.  And people firing rockets.  And yes, Israeli soldiers have been injured and been killed.  

Remember the POINT, for the Israelis, is primarily to protect Israeli lives. (Which does not mean they don't care about protecting Arab lives as well).  The biggest risk is tens of thousands of people breaching the fence.  Its an extremely difficult situation to deal with.

So yeah, I think Israel has done remarkably well in limiting damage and preventing Arab deaths under the most difficult of circumstances.  I don't know what they could have done better.  Maybe you have some ideas.  

Bottom line though, the violence is not helping anyone.  And Gaza should stop it.  






*Tinmore, we know its not a "border" but a demarcation line.  Leave it alone.


----------



## Slyhunter

Shusha said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the contrary.  I care very much about Arab Palestinian lives.
> 
> We just disagree on whose responsibility it is to protect Arab Palestinian lives.  You want to put all the responsibility on Israel.  I want to put responsibility where it properly belongs:  on the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> The Arab government in Gaza needs to:
> 1.  Stop attacking Israel.
> 2.  Actively police the border protests to remove terrorist actions and violence against Israel.
> 3.  Prevent children, the disabled and other vulnerable groups from approaching the border.
> 4.  Stop smuggling weapons into Gaza.
> 5.  Spend available $ on building infrastructure for the people of Gaza, rather than on violence and terror.
> 6.  Stop inciting violence and calling for violence.
> 7.  Accept Israel as a peaceful neighbor.
> 
> Now, Mr. Objective, do you agree that Gaza should do these things?
> 
> 
> 
> You don't blame Israel for anything.  You scapegoat the Palestinian's at every turn.  There is no empathy in your posts for the Pals.  The entire world is against you and you even refuse to believe that.  Your Eisenhower moment is coming.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You didn't answer my question, Mr. Objective.  Do you think that the government of Gaza should: stop attacking Israel; actively police the border protests to prevent violence; protect children and other vulnerable groups; stop smuggling weapons into Gaza; spend available money on infrastructure and not terror; stop inciting violence; accept Israel as a peaceful neighbor?  Yes or no?
> 
> As for me, when discussing Gaza, you are correct.  I don't put much responsibility on Israel.  That is because Israel has acted, in my opinion, with exquisite restraint in all the years since she ceded Gaza and ended the occupation there.  And she did so under extremely difficult circumstances.
> 
> Let's look again at the military difficulties at the Gaza border* in the past year.  The conditions are tens of thousands of people gathering at the border to protest.  Since the protest is built around a "right" to return, (though no such right actually exists in international law), there is a drive at the border to approach it, breach it, take it down.  Israeli citizens are 1/2 a km from this border.  The government of Gaza is willfully, intentionally inciting violence by calling to "rip the hearts out of Jews" and march to Jerusalem (which is not "return" by the way, but marching on the capital).  The government of Gaza is pressuring people to attend, providing transportation, and paying them to get injured.
> 
> In this crowd at the border are children: babies, five-year-olds learning how to behave, children 15, 16, 17 who are indistinguishable at a distance from 18, 19, 20 year old adults and child soldiers.  There are journalists: some trying to get good images, and some perhaps working as militants.  There are medics, some of whom may also be militants.  There are unarmed militants.  There are armed militants. There are men and women throwing rocks (which are considered lethal weapons, btw).  There are people, especially children and young people, burning tires which provides cover for the militants.  There are children with knives who cut through the fence, only to whoop and shout and then return back.  There children and adults with knives who cut through the fence and attack Israeli soldiers.  There are terrorists planting IEDs at the fence line.  There are snipers.  There are people throwing grenades instead of rocks (can you tell the difference between a rock and a grenade from a distance)?  There are people flying firebombs.  And people firing rockets.  And yes, Israeli soldiers have been injured and been killed.
> 
> Remember the POINT, for the Israelis, is primarily to protect Israeli lives. (Which does not mean they don't care about protecting Arab lives as well).  The biggest risk is tens of thousands of people breaching the fence.  Its an extremely difficult situation to deal with.
> 
> So yeah, I think Israel has done remarkably well in limiting damage and preventing Arab deaths under the most difficult of circumstances.  I don't know what they could have done better.  Maybe you have some ideas.
> 
> Bottom line though, the violence is not helping anyone.  And Gaza should stop it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Tinmore, we know its not a "border" but a demarcation line.  Leave it alone.
Click to expand...

clear, plain, logical, and makes sense. But Bill Oreally will ignore it and pretend like you never said the above. Maybe today or tomorrow, or several weeks from now when he thinks people have forgotten what it is that you have written. He doesn't care about winning an argument with logic or truth he only cares about winning the argument using any means at his disposal. It's hard to find people willing to lose an argument to someone who had a better argument. They don't exist on here.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hollie said:


> You obviously missed it but Israel is approaching what we call "election of government officials".
> 
> Islamic terrorist dictators generally don't provide for such things.


Hamas is the elected government of Gaza.


----------



## Billo_Really

Mindful said:


> In what way?


Brutal crackdowns.


----------



## Billo_Really

The Original Tree said:


> *So 4,000 years of continual existence in the area, and a civilization of people that has outlasted Medo Persia, Assyria, Babylon, and The Roman Empires, surviving The Roman Holocaust of 1 Million Jews Exterminated, The Ottoman Empire Holocaust (Armenian Genocide) of 2 Million Jews Exterminated, and The Nazi Holocaust of 6 Million Jews Exterminated, vs. a few people that have hung around for about 100 years who are not even a genetically diverse group, but are a collection of people from Egypt, Syria, and Jordan?  And they already had a homeland designated for them in Transjordan that they refuse to go to?
> 
> The STOOPID is strong in you.  Besides that Israel's existence was guaranteed in the 1917 Balfour Declaration.
> 
> The only thing promised Arabs in that area was that they could practice their pagan religion and worship Satan-Allah.
> 
> Jews were digging tunnels to fight The Romans 2,000 years before you made up the fake people called Palestinians.
> 
> 2,000-year-old desert settlement discovered in Israel, revealing ancient rebels' hidden tunnels*


It doesn't matter what name you call them by.  Palestinian-Arabs and Palestinian-Jews have been living there for over 2 millennium.  Zionists are the ones who moved into the area around the turn of the last century.  And people that move into the area, do not have more rights than the people already living there. The Balfour Declaration alludes to this.

Stop being so fucking selfish!


----------



## Billo_Really

The Original Tree said:


> *Guess your Nation doesn't have any rights then.  Besides, why are you wearing pants?  Shouldn't you be wearing a large potato sack from head to toe?*


People have rights; nations don't.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> *So 4,000 years of continual existence in the area, and a civilization of people that has outlasted Medo Persia, Assyria, Babylon, and The Roman Empires, surviving The Roman Holocaust of 1 Million Jews Exterminated, The Ottoman Empire Holocaust (Armenian Genocide) of 2 Million Jews Exterminated, and The Nazi Holocaust of 6 Million Jews Exterminated, vs. a few people that have hung around for about 100 years who are not even a genetically diverse group, but are a collection of people from Egypt, Syria, and Jordan?  And they already had a homeland designated for them in Transjordan that they refuse to go to?
> 
> The STOOPID is strong in you.  Besides that Israel's existence was guaranteed in the 1917 Balfour Declaration.
> 
> The only thing promised Arabs in that area was that they could practice their pagan religion and worship Satan-Allah.
> 
> Jews were digging tunnels to fight The Romans 2,000 years before you made up the fake people called Palestinians.
> 
> 2,000-year-old desert settlement discovered in Israel, revealing ancient rebels' hidden tunnels*
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter what name you call them by.  Palestinian-Arabs and Palestinian-Jews have been living there for over 2 millennium.  Zionists are the ones who moved into the area around the turn of the last century.  And people that move into the area, do not have more rights than the people already living there. The Balfour Declaration alludes to this.
> 
> Stop being so fucking selfish!
Click to expand...

They have?  The Arabs or Arab Palestinians have been living in Ancient Canaan/Israel/Judea for over 2000 years?

Strange.  They cannot be found in Egyptian, Assyrian, Babylonian, Philistine, Greek, Roman, Byzantine history.  Nowhere to be found.

But YOU found them.

It is Magic, I say  !!!!


----------



## Billo_Really

You are so full of shit!



Shusha said:


> You didn't answer my question, Mr. Objective.  Do you think that the government of Gaza should: stop attacking Israel; actively police the border protests to prevent violence; protect children and other vulnerable groups; stop smuggling weapons into Gaza; spend available money on infrastructure and not terror; stop inciting violence; accept Israel as a peaceful neighbor?  Yes or no?


You're asking the wrong question.  The government of Gaza is not attacking Israel.  They are responding to Israeli aggression.  The government of Gaza can't police anything because you target them as soon as they step outside.  Why do they have to protect children?  Why don't you just stop shooting them? Why can't they have weapons?  Are you saying they have no right to defend themselves?  If they can't have weapons, then neither can Israel.  When is Israel going to get rid of its weapons?  They are not inciting violence, you are.  Israel is not a peaceful neighbor, it is a belligerent occupier.



Shusha said:


> As for me, when discussing Gaza, you are correct.  I don't put much responsibility on Israel.  That is because Israel has acted, in my opinion, with exquisite restraint in all the years since she ceded Gaza and ended the occupation there.  And she did so under extremely difficult circumstances.


Shooting children, medics, journalists and innocent civilians, is showing restraint?  And Israel didn't "cede" Gaza.  You can't give what you don't have.  Gaza was never Israel's in the first place.



Shusha said:


> Let's look again at the military difficulties at the Gaza border* in the past year.  The conditions are tens of thousands of people gathering at the border to protest.  Since the protest is built around a "right" to return, (though no such right actually exists in international law), there is a drive at the border to approach it, breach it, take it down.  Israeli citizens are 1/2 a km from this border.  The government of Gaza is willfully, intentionally inciting violence by calling to "rip the hearts out of Jews" and march to Jerusalem (which is not "return" by the way, but marching on the capital).  The government of Gaza is pressuring people to attend, providing transportation, and paying them to get injured.


This protest is built around the inhuman treatment you are forcing them to live under.  You are denying them their inalienable rights.  And you have no right to do that.



Shusha said:


> In this crowd at the border are children: babies, five-year-olds learning how to behave, children 15, 16, 17 who are indistinguishable at a distance from 18, 19, 20 year old adults and child soldiers.  There are journalists: some trying to get good images, and some perhaps working as militants.  There are medics, some of whom may also be militants.  There are unarmed militants.  There are armed militants. There are men and women throwing rocks (which are considered lethal weapons, btw).  There are people, especially children and young people, burning tires which provides cover for the militants.  There are children with knives who cut through the fence, only to whoop and shout and then return back.  There children and adults with knives who cut through the fence and attack Israeli soldiers.  There are terrorists planting IEDs at the fence line.  There are snipers.  There are people throwing grenades instead of rocks (can you tell the difference between a rock and a grenade from a distance)?  There are people flying firebombs.  And people firing rockets.  And yes, Israeli soldiers have been injured and been killed.


Now you're trying to defend Israeli atrocities with total bullshit.



Shusha said:


> Remember the POINT, for the Israelis, is primarily to protect Israeli lives. (Which does not mean they don't care about protecting Arab lives as well).  The biggest risk is tens of thousands of people breaching the fence.  Its an extremely difficult situation to deal with.


These people used to live just inside those fences.  But you drove them out with Zionist terrorism.



Shusha said:


> So yeah, I think Israel has done remarkably well in limiting damage and preventing Arab deaths under the most difficult of circumstances.  I don't know what they could have done better.  Maybe you have some ideas.


Fuck you!  You're full of shit!



Shusha said:


> Bottom line though, the violence is not helping anyone.  And Gaza should stop it.


You can't stop what you didn't start.  Israel started the violence, the first step is Israel's.


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> clear, plain, logical, and makes sense. But Bill Oreally will ignore it and pretend like you never said the above. Maybe today or tomorrow, or several weeks from now when he thinks people have forgotten what it is that you have written. He doesn't care about winning an argument with logic or truth he only cares about winning the argument using any means at his disposal. It's hard to find people willing to lose an argument to someone who had a better argument. They don't exist on here.


And to think just 3 hours later I responded to her post and addressed every point.

But hey, try again.  Maybe your luck will change?


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> They have?  The Arabs or Arab Palestinians have been living in Ancient Canaan/Israel/Judea for over 2000 years?
> 
> Strange.  They cannot be found in Egyptian, Assyrian, Babylonian, Philistine, Greek, Roman, Byzantine history.  Nowhere to be found.
> 
> But YOU found them.
> 
> It is Magic, I say  !!!!


They were Jewish converts.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> They have?  The Arabs or Arab Palestinians have been living in Ancient Canaan/Israel/Judea for over 2000 years?
> 
> Strange.  They cannot be found in Egyptian, Assyrian, Babylonian, Philistine, Greek, Roman, Byzantine history.  Nowhere to be found.
> 
> But YOU found them.
> 
> It is Magic, I say  !!!!
> 
> 
> 
> They were Jewish converts.
Click to expand...

And where did you find evidence of this little nugget, over 2000 years ago?
And I am not talking about AFTER the Arab Muslims invaded in the 7th century CE.

What tribe of Arabs, or Individual Arabs are reported historically to have converted to Judaism over 2000 years ago?


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> And to think just 3 hours later I responded to her post and addressed every point.



Except for the logic and truth part.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Israel started the violence, the first step is Israel's.



That "first step" was taking in 2005 when Israel completely abandoned Gaza.  Rather than use that as an opportunity for peace -- Gaza has continually attacked Israel.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Now you're trying to defend Israeli atrocities with total bullshit.



No.  I'm trying to highlight the difficulties in addressing that sort of mixed civilian/militant riot.   Look. You've already admitted upthread that there are armed and dangerous people hidden amongst a civilian population, including children.  So you can't very well back out of that now and remain honest.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> This protest is built around the inhuman treatment you are forcing them to live under.  You are denying them their inalienable rights.



And what inalienable rights are those?  The right to a State?  To self-determination?  The obligation to put their own citizens welfare above well, everything else?

So, you mean forcing them to govern themselves?  To interact with other States without belligerent attacks on other states borders?  To provide for their own citizens?  To develop an economy? To not depend on other states for health care, electricity, water and education?  

The HORROR!

Look the NORM for independent states is not to try to break down borders.  Its not hold violent riots against their neighboring states.  Its not to shoot rockets at them.  If they want to normalize relations with Israel -- they need to normalize relations with Israel. 

No nation on earth would be expected to have normal relations with a state which is attacking them on a daily basis.  End the violence.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> You're asking the wrong question.  The government of Gaza is not attacking Israel.



Oh please.  Do we need to go over that list one more time?

Do you think that the government of Gaza should: stop attacking Israel with rockets and violent riots at the border; actively police the border protests to prevent violence; protect children and other vulnerable groups; stop smuggling weapons into Gaza; spend available money on infrastructure and not terror; stop inciting violence; accept Israel as a peaceful neighbor? Yes or no?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're asking the wrong question.  The government of Gaza is not attacking Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please.  Do we need to go over that list one more time?
> 
> Do you think that the government of Gaza should: stop attacking Israel with rockets and violent riots at the border; actively police the border protests to prevent violence; protect children and other vulnerable groups; stop smuggling weapons into Gaza; spend available money on infrastructure and not terror; stop inciting violence; accept Israel as a peaceful neighbor? Yes or no?
Click to expand...

Israel is not a neighbor. It is a settler colonial project eating up Palestine every day.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're asking the wrong question.  The government of Gaza is not attacking Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please.  Do we need to go over that list one more time?
> 
> Do you think that the government of Gaza should: stop attacking Israel with rockets and violent riots at the border; actively police the border protests to prevent violence; protect children and other vulnerable groups; stop smuggling weapons into Gaza; spend available money on infrastructure and not terror; stop inciting violence; accept Israel as a peaceful neighbor? Yes or no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a neighbor. It is a settler colonial project eating up Palestine every day.
Click to expand...


Sure. You are the epitome of "we don't want a state, we just want to make sure Israel doesn't have one".


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're asking the wrong question.  The government of Gaza is not attacking Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please.  Do we need to go over that list one more time?
> 
> Do you think that the government of Gaza should: stop attacking Israel with rockets and violent riots at the border; actively police the border protests to prevent violence; protect children and other vulnerable groups; stop smuggling weapons into Gaza; spend available money on infrastructure and not terror; stop inciting violence; accept Israel as a peaceful neighbor? Yes or no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a neighbor. It is a settler colonial project eating up Palestine every day.
Click to expand...


Lamenting the collapse of the Islamist caliphate and loss of the Islamic settler project?


----------



## Hollie

The continuing failure of the Islamist tire burning gee-had / Islamist Setter Colonial Project. 


*Hamas claims dozens wounded in border riots*
IDF says some 10,500 Palestinian Arabs take part in weekly "March of the Return" violence along the Gaza border.

Hamas claims dozens wounded in border riots

Elad Benari, Canada,  05/04/19 20:18
Share


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're asking the wrong question.  The government of Gaza is not attacking Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please.  Do we need to go over that list one more time?
> 
> Do you think that the government of Gaza should: stop attacking Israel with rockets and violent riots at the border; actively police the border protests to prevent violence; protect children and other vulnerable groups; stop smuggling weapons into Gaza; spend available money on infrastructure and not terror; stop inciting violence; accept Israel as a peaceful neighbor? Yes or no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a neighbor. It is a settler colonial project eating up Palestine every day.
Click to expand...


Translation; Israel does not have the Right to exist. Tell that to the U.N. Is that why you keep avoiding the question as to their denying Israel’s right to the Western Wall? Keep posting!


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> And where did you find evidence of this little nugget, over 2000 years ago?
> And I am not talking about AFTER the Arab Muslims invaded in the 7th century CE.
> 
> What tribe of Arabs, or Individual Arabs are reported historically to have converted to Judaism over 2000 years ago?


You got that backwards.  Jews converted to Islam.  Just ask Schlomo Sands.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Except for the logic and truth part.


Everything I say is true.

Yer welcome!


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> That "first step" was taking in 2005 when Israel completely abandoned Gaza.  Rather than use that as an opportunity for peace -- Gaza has continually attacked Israel.


That's the big lie you tell yourself just so you can sleep at night.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> No.  I'm trying to highlight the difficulties in addressing that sort of mixed civilian/militant riot.   Look. You've already admitted upthread that there are armed and dangerous people hidden amongst a civilian population, including children.  So you can't very well back out of that now and remain honest.


I don't agree it was a riot and I didn't admit people were hidden.  But even if they were, you still have no right to shoot them.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> And what inalienable rights are those?  The right to a State?  To self-determination?  The obligation to put their own citizens welfare above well, everything else?


Well, off the top of my head, the right to fish and farm without getting shot at.  The right to feed their families without Israeli drones and missiles hitting their buildings on a weekly basis.



Shusha said:


> So, you mean forcing them to govern themselves?  To interact with other States without belligerent attacks on other states borders?  To provide for their own citizens?  To develop an economy? To not depend on other states for health care, electricity, water and education?


They can't develop an economy when Israel controls 80% of what goes in to (and out of) Gaza.  They wouldn't have to depend on other states for electricity and water if Israel would stop bombing their infrastructure.  Which, BTW, is a war crime.



Shusha said:


> The HORROR!
> 
> Look the NORM for independent states is not to try to break down borders.  Its not hold violent riots against their neighboring states.  Its not to shoot rockets at them.  If they want to normalize relations with Israel -- they need to normalize relations with Israel.


They can't.  Israel won't allow it.  Hamas and Fatah tried to settle their differences and form a unity government.  Israel's response was Operation Cast Lead.



Shusha said:


> No nation on earth would be expected to have normal relations with a state which is attacking them on a daily basis.  End the violence.


Then why don't Israel stop these daily attacks? You act like these rockets are nuclear tipped ICBM's.  They're just homemade rockets fired out of the trunk of their cars.  Most of them fall harmlessly in the desert.   Israel, on the other hand, has smart weapons and is making Gaza practically unlivable.  You people are fucked!  You're not the victims, they are.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Oh please.  Do we need to go over that list one more time?
> 
> Do you think that the government of Gaza should: stop attacking Israel with rockets and violent riots at the border; actively police the border protests to prevent violence; protect children and other vulnerable groups; stop smuggling weapons into Gaza; spend available money on infrastructure and not terror; stop inciting violence; accept Israel as a peaceful neighbor? Yes or no?


It doesn't matter how many times you repeat yourself, you can't turn a lie into the truth.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Sure. You are the epitome of "we don't want a state, we just want to make sure Israel doesn't have one".


You might have a state, but you certainly don't deserve one.


----------



## Billo_Really

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Translation; Israel does not have the Right to exist. Tell that to the U.N. Is that why you keep avoiding the question as to their denying Israel’s right to the Western Wall? Keep posting!


Nations don't have rights, people do.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> And where did you find evidence of this little nugget, over 2000 years ago?
> And I am not talking about AFTER the Arab Muslims invaded in the 7th century CE.
> 
> What tribe of Arabs, or Individual Arabs are reported historically to have converted to Judaism over 2000 years ago?
> 
> 
> 
> You got that backwards.  Jews converted to Islam.  Just ask Schlomo Sands.
Click to expand...

1)  You did not answer the questions

2)  Under what circumstances did SOME Jews end up becoming Muslims in Arabia, or after the Islamic invasion of Israel/Palestine?

3)  I no more need to ask ignorant Mr. Sands, than I need to ask ignorant Mr. Billo about Jewish history


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The universal declaration of human rights, deals with individual rights,
> not national rights or sovereignty.
> 
> Thats exactly the point, the confusion between national and personal rights.
> 
> But even on a personal level in any functional democracy the police, army and the courts are indeed authorized to take away a citizens' personal rights- therefore Your conclusion is wrong as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Nations don't have rights.
Click to expand...

*Charter of Economic Rights and Duties of States* 
GA Res. 3281(xxix), UN GAOR, 29th Sess., Supp. No. 31 (1974) 50 The General Assembly,

*Each State has the right: *

(a) To regulate and exercise authority over foreign investment within its national jurisdiction in accordance with its laws and regulations and in conformity with its national objectives and priorities. No State shall be compelled to grant preferential treatment to foreign investment;
(b) To regulate and supervise the activities of transnational corporations within its national jurisdiction and take measures to ensure that such activities comply with its laws, rules and regulations and conform with its economic and social policies. Transnational corporations shall not intervene in the internal affairs of a host State. Every State should, with full regard for its sovereign rights, cooperate with other States in the exercise of the right set forth in this subparagraph;
(c) To nationalize, expropriate or transfer ownership of foreign property, in which case appropriate compensation should be paid by the State adopting such measures, taking into account its relevant laws and regulations and all circumstances that the State considers pertinent. In any case where the question of compensation gives rise to a controversy, it shall be settled under the domestic law of the nationalizing State and by its tribunals, unless it is freely and mutually agreed by all States concerned that other peaceful means be sought on the basis of the sovereign equality of States and in accordance with the principle of free choice of means..

https://www.aaas.org/sites/default/..._Economic_Rights_and_Duties_of_States_Eng.pdf


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> It means exactly what I said - civil and religious rights, political rights weren't vested in an Arab nation, but specifically mentioned regarding the sovereign nation under international law.
> 
> In fact not in any of the Arab or Muslim countries do average citizens enjoy the same level of freedoms and quality of life as Israel provides to its non-Jewish citizens.
> 
> Israel is the 11th happiest country in the world for a reason.
> 
> 
> 
> I need to pull up my pant legs so they don't get dirty from this flow of bullshit you are pushing.
Click to expand...


Your Jihadi duckdance becomes too comical to watch.


----------



## Slyhunter

Israel would stop firing killing and destroying infrastructure if the Palestinians stopped rioting, flying fire kites, firing rockets, into Israel.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Billo_Really said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Translation; Israel does not have the Right to exist. Tell that to the U.N. Is that why you keep avoiding the question as to their denying Israel’s right to the Western Wall? Keep posting!
> 
> 
> 
> Nations don't have rights, people do.
Click to expand...


You’re right! That means the Israelis have the Right to pray at the Western Wall you   FUCK YOU !!!


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> 1)  You did not answer the questions
> 
> 2)  Under what circumstances did SOME Jews end up becoming Muslims in Arabia, or after the Islamic invasion of Israel/Palestine?
> 
> 3)  I no more need to ask ignorant Mr. Sands, than I need to ask ignorant Mr. Billo about Jewish history


Me, ignorant?  What, did you get some bad won ton?  You need to check that wishful thinking with the Buddha of your Temple.

*Most Palestinians Are Descendants Of Jews*
_Most of what we now call “Palestinian Arabs” are descendants of Jews. Tzvi Misinai, a software pioneer, who has devoted his life to assembling the facts on this issue, says that 90 per cent of Palestinian Arabs are descendants of Jews and 50 per cent know it._​Questions or comments?
​


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> s well.


Nations don't have rights.[/QUOTE]
*Charter of Economic Rights and Duties of States*
GA Res. 3281(xxix), UN GAOR, 29th Sess., Supp. No. 31 (1974) 50 The General Assembly,

*Each State has the right: *

(a) To regulate and exercise authority over foreign investment within its national jurisdiction in accordance with its laws and regulations and in conformity with its national objectives and priorities. No State shall be compelled to grant preferential treatment to foreign investment;
(b) To regulate and supervise the activities of transnational corporations within its national jurisdiction and take measures to ensure that such activities comply with its laws, rules and regulations and conform with its economic and social policies. Transnational corporations shall not intervene in the internal affairs of a host State. Every State should, with full regard for its sovereign rights, cooperate with other States in the exercise of the right set forth in this subparagraph;
(c) To nationalize, expropriate or transfer ownership of foreign property, in which case appropriate compensation should be paid by the State adopting such measures, taking into account its relevant laws and regulations and all circumstances that the State considers pertinent. In any case where the question of compensation gives rise to a controversy, it shall be settled under the domestic law of the nationalizing State and by its tribunals, unless it is freely and mutually agreed by all States concerned that other peaceful means be sought on the basis of the sovereign equality of States and in accordance with the principle of free choice of means..

https://www.aaas.org/sites/default/..._Economic_Rights_and_Duties_of_States_Eng.pdf[/QUOTE]The "State" is not a corporation that only exists on paper, it is the people that are governed in that territory.  And no where does it say it has the right to hold onto land seized in a war.  But it is codified in... 

_The 1928 Kellogg–Briand Pact, the post-1945 Nuremberg Trials, the UN Charter ...
_​_..._you cannot acquire land by force.


----------



## Billo_Really

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> You’re right! That means the Israelis have the Right to pray at the Western Wall you   FUCK YOU !!!


That is true.  But they don't have the right to claim the Wall for themselves. You have to fucking share it, asshole.


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> Your Jihadi duckdance becomes too comical to watch.


Jihadi duckdance?  Is that like The Dougie?


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> Israel would stop firing killing and destroying infrastructure if the Palestinians stopped rioting, flying fire kites, firing rockets, into Israel.


No they wouldn't.  People can't even talk about Palestinian human rights without you fuckers going ballistic.


----------



## Mindful

What the media won't show you.

Watch the video.

What Israeli soldiers are really doing at the Gaza border


----------



## Bleipriester

Mindful said:


> What the media won't show you.
> 
> Watch the video.
> 
> What Israeli soldiers are really doing at the Gaza border


Pathetic. Since the Gaza strip belongs to Israel it is the government´s duty to get rid of the terror org.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> *Charter of Economic Rights and Duties of States*
> GA Res. 3281(xxix), UN GAOR, 29th Sess., Supp. No. 31 (1974) 50 The General Assembly,
> 
> *Each State has the right: *
> 
> (a) To regulate and exercise authority over foreign investment within its national jurisdiction in accordance with its laws and regulations and in conformity with its national objectives and priorities. No State shall be compelled to grant preferential treatment to foreign investment;
> (b) To regulate and supervise the activities of transnational corporations within its national jurisdiction and take measures to ensure that such activities comply with its laws, rules and regulations and conform with its economic and social policies. Transnational corporations shall not intervene in the internal affairs of a host State. Every State should, with full regard for its sovereign rights, cooperate with other States in the exercise of the right set forth in this subparagraph;
> (c) To nationalize, expropriate or transfer ownership of foreign property, in which case appropriate compensation should be paid by the State adopting such measures, taking into account its relevant laws and regulations and all circumstances that the State considers pertinent. In any case where the question of compensation gives rise to a controversy, it shall be settled under the domestic law of the nationalizing State and by its tribunals, unless it is freely and mutually agreed by all States concerned that other peaceful means be sought on the basis of the sovereign equality of States and in accordance with the principle of free choice of means..
> 
> https://www.aaas.org/sites/default/..._Economic_Rights_and_Duties_of_States_Eng.pdf
> 
> The "State" is not a corporation that only exists on paper, it is the people that are governed in that territory.  And no where does it say it has the right to hold onto land seized in a war.  But it is codified in...
> 
> _The 1928 Kellogg–Briand Pact, the post-1945 Nuremberg Trials, the UN Charter ...
> _​_..._you cannot acquire land by force.


I just love it when you throw totally self contradictory statements one after another.

What happened to your "nations don't have rights"?
Is it no rights for Jews, but territorial rights for every other nation?


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your Jihadi duckdance becomes too comical to watch.
> 
> 
> 
> Jihadi duckdance?  Is that like The Dougie?
Click to expand...


No, it's when one sticks a swastike flag up ones bottom, and tries to run for the Israeli border
while Bathtub Barry club cheers for such an original way to come out of the closet.


----------



## rylah

Bleipriester said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> What the media won't show you.
> 
> Watch the video.
> 
> What Israeli soldiers are really doing at the Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> Pathetic. Since the Gaza strip belongs to Israel it is the government´s duty to get rid of the terror org.
Click to expand...


Yes it is.
And Germans would be the first ones to fund advocates of Hamas,
and the next UN reports that would suggest Israelis were not allowed to do exactly that.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Billo_Really said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> You’re right! That means the Israelis have the Right to pray at the Western Wall you   FUCK YOU !!!
> 
> 
> 
> That is true.  But they don't have the right to claim the Wall for themselves. You have to fucking share it, asshole.
Click to expand...


Oh... but it’s OK for the Palestinians to do so? Show me in Olmert’s peace proposal where he stated the Western Wall was off limits to the Palestinians


----------



## Bleipriester

rylah said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> What the media won't show you.
> 
> Watch the video.
> 
> What Israeli soldiers are really doing at the Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> Pathetic. Since the Gaza strip belongs to Israel it is the government´s duty to get rid of the terror org.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes it is.
> And Germans would be the first ones to fund advocates of Hamas,
> and the next UN reports that would suggest Israelis were not allowed to do exactly that.
Click to expand...

They don´t know Hamas. And it is not like that people can´t move freely in Gaza City.


----------



## Mindful

Anti-Semitism 'deeply rooted' in German society: public prosecutor


----------



## Bleipriester

Mindful said:


> Anti-Semitism 'deeply rooted' in German society: public prosecutor


I can assure you that this is total bs.


----------



## Mindful

Bleipriester said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Semitism 'deeply rooted' in German society: public prosecutor
> 
> 
> 
> I can assure you that this is total bs.
Click to expand...


And coming from a German publication.


----------



## Bleipriester

Mindful said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Semitism 'deeply rooted' in German society: public prosecutor
> 
> 
> 
> I can assure you that this is total bs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And coming from a German publication.
Click to expand...

That doesn´t matter. Leftists calling for a Palestinian state aren´t anti-semitic but just leftist (as Israel´s gov is right-wing). But Jews ain´t a topic at all in Germany. Most of us are totally unpolitical and when it is about politics it is mainly about personal matters, environment, social security and legalizing pot. They tell us on TV that 20 % of us are anti-semitic but the lack of Jewish influence on Germany rules that out. You self know about the Jews that are even in the AfD.


----------



## Mindful

Bleipriester said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Semitism 'deeply rooted' in German society: public prosecutor
> 
> 
> 
> I can assure you that this is total bs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And coming from a German publication.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That doesn´t matter. Leftists calling for a Palestinian state aren´t anti-semitic but just leftist (as Israel´s gov is right-wing). But Jews ain´t a topic at all in Germany. Most of us are totally unpolitical and when it is about politics it is mainly about personal matters, environment, social security and legalizing pot. They tell us on TV that 20 % of us are anti-semitic but the lack of Jewish influence on Germany rules that out. You self know about the Jews that are even in the AfD.
Click to expand...


Yes, I did an interview with them.

One of their Jewish Abgeordnete was told he wasn't a 'proper Jew'. By Gentiles.


----------



## Mindful

Bleipriester said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Semitism 'deeply rooted' in German society: public prosecutor
> 
> 
> 
> I can assure you that this is total bs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And coming from a German publication.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That doesn´t matter. Leftists calling for a Palestinian state aren´t anti-semitic but just leftist (as Israel´s gov is right-wing). But Jews ain´t a topic at all in Germany. Most of us are totally unpolitical and when it is about politics it is mainly about personal matters, environment, social security and legalizing pot. They tell us on TV that 20 % of us are anti-semitic but the lack of Jewish influence on Germany rules that out. You self know about the Jews that are even in the AfD.
Click to expand...


I find the lack of Jews in the media, TV, and the rest of it slightly disturbing. When in the UK, it's all intertwined.


----------



## Bleipriester

Mindful said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Semitism 'deeply rooted' in German society: public prosecutor
> 
> 
> 
> I can assure you that this is total bs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And coming from a German publication.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That doesn´t matter. Leftists calling for a Palestinian state aren´t anti-semitic but just leftist (as Israel´s gov is right-wing). But Jews ain´t a topic at all in Germany. Most of us are totally unpolitical and when it is about politics it is mainly about personal matters, environment, social security and legalizing pot. They tell us on TV that 20 % of us are anti-semitic but the lack of Jewish influence on Germany rules that out. You self know about the Jews that are even in the AfD.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I did an interview with them.
> 
> One of their Jewish Abgeordnete was told he wasn't a 'proper Jew'. By Gentiles.
Click to expand...

Maybe he´s a convert. Not all Jewish communities in Germany accept converts.


----------



## Mindful

Bleipriester said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Semitism 'deeply rooted' in German society: public prosecutor
> 
> 
> 
> I can assure you that this is total bs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And coming from a German publication.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That doesn´t matter. Leftists calling for a Palestinian state aren´t anti-semitic but just leftist (as Israel´s gov is right-wing). But Jews ain´t a topic at all in Germany. Most of us are totally unpolitical and when it is about politics it is mainly about personal matters, environment, social security and legalizing pot. They tell us on TV that 20 % of us are anti-semitic but the lack of Jewish influence on Germany rules that out. You self know about the Jews that are even in the AfD.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I did an interview with them.
> 
> One of their Jewish Abgeordnete was told he wasn't a 'proper Jew'. By Gentiles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe he´s a convert. Not all Jewish communities in Germany accept converts.
Click to expand...


lol.

That's beyond commentating on.


----------



## Bleipriester

Mindful said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Semitism 'deeply rooted' in German society: public prosecutor
> 
> 
> 
> I can assure you that this is total bs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And coming from a German publication.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That doesn´t matter. Leftists calling for a Palestinian state aren´t anti-semitic but just leftist (as Israel´s gov is right-wing). But Jews ain´t a topic at all in Germany. Most of us are totally unpolitical and when it is about politics it is mainly about personal matters, environment, social security and legalizing pot. They tell us on TV that 20 % of us are anti-semitic but the lack of Jewish influence on Germany rules that out. You self know about the Jews that are even in the AfD.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I find the lack of Jews in the media, TV, and the rest of it slightly disturbing. When in the UK, it's all intertwined.
Click to expand...

They use Jews here to agitate against the right. But I saw a Jewish Professor on Welt (News TV) who said the statistics ain´t correct and the actual threat for Jews ain´t some Nazis but immigrants. I have several topics here about attacks on Jews.


----------



## Bleipriester

Mindful said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can assure you that this is total bs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And coming from a German publication.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That doesn´t matter. Leftists calling for a Palestinian state aren´t anti-semitic but just leftist (as Israel´s gov is right-wing). But Jews ain´t a topic at all in Germany. Most of us are totally unpolitical and when it is about politics it is mainly about personal matters, environment, social security and legalizing pot. They tell us on TV that 20 % of us are anti-semitic but the lack of Jewish influence on Germany rules that out. You self know about the Jews that are even in the AfD.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I did an interview with them.
> 
> One of their Jewish Abgeordnete was told he wasn't a 'proper Jew'. By Gentiles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe he´s a convert. Not all Jewish communities in Germany accept converts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> lol.
> 
> That's beyond commentating on.
Click to expand...

Please explain.


----------



## Mindful

Bleipriester said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> And coming from a German publication.
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn´t matter. Leftists calling for a Palestinian state aren´t anti-semitic but just leftist (as Israel´s gov is right-wing). But Jews ain´t a topic at all in Germany. Most of us are totally unpolitical and when it is about politics it is mainly about personal matters, environment, social security and legalizing pot. They tell us on TV that 20 % of us are anti-semitic but the lack of Jewish influence on Germany rules that out. You self know about the Jews that are even in the AfD.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I did an interview with them.
> 
> One of their Jewish Abgeordnete was told he wasn't a 'proper Jew'. By Gentiles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe he´s a convert. Not all Jewish communities in Germany accept converts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> lol.
> 
> That's beyond commentating on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please explain.
Click to expand...


The guy is not a convert.

And the German attacks on Jews are more subtle and intellectual/analytical.

Not rampaging around with machetes, or daubing swastikas  on Jewish tombstones.


----------



## Bleipriester

Mindful said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn´t matter. Leftists calling for a Palestinian state aren´t anti-semitic but just leftist (as Israel´s gov is right-wing). But Jews ain´t a topic at all in Germany. Most of us are totally unpolitical and when it is about politics it is mainly about personal matters, environment, social security and legalizing pot. They tell us on TV that 20 % of us are anti-semitic but the lack of Jewish influence on Germany rules that out. You self know about the Jews that are even in the AfD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I did an interview with them.
> 
> One of their Jewish Abgeordnete was told he wasn't a 'proper Jew'. By Gentiles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe he´s a convert. Not all Jewish communities in Germany accept converts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> lol.
> 
> That's beyond commentating on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please explain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The guy is not a convert.
> 
> And the German attacks on Jews are more subtle and intellectual/analytical.
> 
> Not rampaging around with machetes, or daubing swastikas  on Jewish tombstones.
Click to expand...

Conspiracy stuff. And yes, the attacks on Jews have increased.


----------



## Mindful

Bleipriester said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I did an interview with them.
> 
> One of their Jewish Abgeordnete was told he wasn't a 'proper Jew'. By Gentiles.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe he´s a convert. Not all Jewish communities in Germany accept converts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> lol.
> 
> That's beyond commentating on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please explain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The guy is not a convert.
> 
> And the German attacks on Jews are more subtle and intellectual/analytical.
> 
> Not rampaging around with machetes, or daubing swastikas  on Jewish tombstones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Conspiracy stuff. And yes, the attacks on Jews have increased.
Click to expand...


What do you mean, conspiracy stuff?


----------



## Bleipriester

Mindful said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe he´s a convert. Not all Jewish communities in Germany accept converts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol.
> 
> That's beyond commentating on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please explain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The guy is not a convert.
> 
> And the German attacks on Jews are more subtle and intellectual/analytical.
> 
> Not rampaging around with machetes, or daubing swastikas  on Jewish tombstones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Conspiracy stuff. And yes, the attacks on Jews have increased.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do you mean, conspiracy stuff?
Click to expand...

The Jews are behind mass immigration and all, ect to destroy Germany. If that´s true, this would apply to most of the western countries as they experience the same.


----------



## Mindful

Bleipriester said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol.
> 
> That's beyond commentating on.
> 
> 
> 
> Please explain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The guy is not a convert.
> 
> And the German attacks on Jews are more subtle and intellectual/analytical.
> 
> Not rampaging around with machetes, or daubing swastikas  on Jewish tombstones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Conspiracy stuff. And yes, the attacks on Jews have increased.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do you mean, conspiracy stuff?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Jews are behind mass immigration and all, ect to destroy Germany. If that´s true, this would apply to most of the western countries as they experience the same.
Click to expand...


Who said that?


----------



## Bleipriester

Mindful said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please explain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The guy is not a convert.
> 
> And the German attacks on Jews are more subtle and intellectual/analytical.
> 
> Not rampaging around with machetes, or daubing swastikas  on Jewish tombstones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Conspiracy stuff. And yes, the attacks on Jews have increased.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do you mean, conspiracy stuff?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Jews are behind mass immigration and all, ect to destroy Germany. If that´s true, this would apply to most of the western countries as they experience the same.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who said that?
Click to expand...

Some people.


----------



## Hollie

The usual fun and games at the Islamic Terrorist border gee-had. 

The Iranian Mullocrats order their flunkies in Hamas to stage riots and then Islamic terrorists complain about how badly they get beaten down. 



*Over 10,000 Palestinians protest at Gaza border, 70 injured*

*Over 10,000 Palestinians protest at Gaza border, 70 injured

One person in critical condition; ahead of the rallies organizers and armed factions had reportedly called to avoid violence, amid ceasefire talks*
By TOI STAFF5 April 2019, 6:39 pm  5


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> I just love it when you throw totally self contradictory statements one after another.
> 
> What happened to your "nations don't have rights"?
> Is it no rights for Jews, but territorial rights for every other nation?


What was self contradictory?  You threw up a UN resolution as proof a state has rights and I had to correct you that the "state" in your citation, was not the "state" the resolution was in reference to.

And again, I said nothing about Jews or Jewish rights.  So shove that part of your response up your ass!


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> No, it's when one sticks a swastike flag up ones bottom, and tries to run for the Israeli border
> while Bathtub Barry club cheers for such an original way to come out of the closet.


How 'bout when it is alleged that two rockets were shot from Gaza, Israel launches 66 missiles in 12 hours at civilian infrastructure?

*Two Million Palestinians Are Victims of Israeli Airstrikes and Collective Punishment Policy… Gaza under 66 Israeli Airstrikes within 12 Hours, Rendering Dozens of Civilians Homeless after Destruction of Their Houses
*​And what is this bullshit of targeting medical personal?

*Attacks against medical teams:*

Three medics injured by army fire.
Three ambulances partially damage by army fire.
Seven journalists injured by army fire.
You're a fucked up country with fucked up people!  
​


----------



## Billo_Really

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Oh... but it’s OK for the Palestinians to do so? Show me in Olmert’s peace proposal where he stated the Western Wall was off limits to the Palestinians


Ya know, these strawman arguments get old.  Why can't you respond to what "I" said?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, it's when one sticks a swastike flag up ones bottom, and tries to run for the Israeli border
> while Bathtub Barry club cheers for such an original way to come out of the closet.
> 
> 
> 
> How 'bout when it is alleged that two rockets were shot from Gaza, Israel launches 66 missiles in 12 hours at civilian infrastructure?
> 
> *Two Million Palestinians Are Victims of Israeli Airstrikes and Collective Punishment Policy… Gaza under 66 Israeli Airstrikes within 12 Hours, Rendering Dozens of Civilians Homeless after Destruction of Their Houses
> *​And what is this bullshit of targeting medical personal?
> 
> *Attacks against medical teams:*
> 
> Three medics injured by army fire.
> Three ambulances partially damage by army fire.
> Seven journalists injured by army fire.
> You're a fucked up country with fucked up people!
> ​
Click to expand...

You are playing the game of "There is absolutely NOTHING dangerous inside those civilian buildings.  No militants firing rocks, no stock pile of rockets, nothing which allows any country to attack those buildings which are being used as a military base by the enemy.

No, it does not happen in any war that civilian areas are targeted because the enemy is hiding like a rat behind civilians.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, it's when one sticks a swastike flag up ones bottom, and tries to run for the Israeli border
> while Bathtub Barry club cheers for such an original way to come out of the closet.
> 
> 
> 
> How 'bout when it is alleged that two rockets were shot from Gaza, Israel launches 66 missiles in 12 hours at civilian infrastructure?
> 
> *Two Million Palestinians Are Victims of Israeli Airstrikes and Collective Punishment Policy… Gaza under 66 Israeli Airstrikes within 12 Hours, Rendering Dozens of Civilians Homeless after Destruction of Their Houses
> *​And what is this bullshit of targeting medical personal?
> 
> *Attacks against medical teams:*
> 
> Three medics injured by army fire.
> Three ambulances partially damage by army fire.
> Seven journalists injured by army fire.
> You're a fucked up country with fucked up people!
> ​
Click to expand...

Billo, it is called WAR.  Whoever you wish to believe started any of the attacks since 1920 to this day, it is a war.

And clearly your posts are set up so that the leaders of the Palestinians have absolutely no responsibility for the "March or return" or any other attacks or deaths of Israelis.

Hamas and Islamic Jihad hide in civilian buildings, those buildings do, by combat law, become military targets.

Hamas members hide as Medics or any other civilians to fire at, hurl explosives, etc, they are military targets.

There isn't one rule for the rest of the world, and a totally different one for Israel to defend herself from this clearly dangerous attacks.

How is this any different from the Allies attacking places in Syria?
Do you actually need a body count of civilians from both Assad and the Allied attacks?

Do you actually need a body count from all of those who have protested the Hamas leadership in Gaza only to find themselves being attacked, imprisoned or murdered by Hamas or Islamic Jihad?

You do not know what the issues are.

All you do is go Wah, wah, wah, every time Israel is attacked and she gives Hamas a darn good lesson.

Blame Hamas for hiding like roaches amongst the civilians, and stock piling rockets, firing rockets, explosive balloons and everything else they do from civilian areas.

AND blame Hamas for using its civilians to cover up the Hamas members at the border who attempt endlessly to break into Israel to kill Israelis.

No Country would put up with it.  With the US, there would have been one heavy strike on all of those protestors and they would have never bothered to come to the border fences again.


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, it's when one sticks a swastike flag up ones bottom, and tries to run for the Israeli border
> while Bathtub Barry club cheers for such an original way to come out of the closet.
> 
> 
> 
> How 'bout when it is alleged that two rockets were shot from Gaza, Israel launches 66 missiles in 12 hours at civilian infrastructure?
> 
> *Two Million Palestinians Are Victims of Israeli Airstrikes and Collective Punishment Policy… Gaza under 66 Israeli Airstrikes within 12 Hours, Rendering Dozens of Civilians Homeless after Destruction of Their Houses
> *​And what is this bullshit of targeting medical personal?
> 
> *Attacks against medical teams:*
> 
> Three medics injured by army fire.
> Three ambulances partially damage by army fire.
> Seven journalists injured by army fire.
> You're a fucked up country with fucked up people!
> ​
Click to expand...

1. don't bitch that Israel is better at firing rockets than Palestinians when it's the Palestinians who started it.
2. Don't bitch about shooting at medical personnel or ambulances when terrorists pretend to be medical personnel and use their vehicles to do their attacks.
3. I didn't hear you bitching when we were bombing the shit out of German civilians during WWII. If the Palestinians don't like carpet bombing in retaliation for their solders actions then they need to raise up and revolt and take Hamas out of power. They shouldn't of voted for them in the first place. So it's just as much their fault that Hamas is a terrorist regime because they voted for them.


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh... but it’s OK for the Palestinians to do so? Show me in Olmert’s peace proposal where he stated the Western Wall was off limits to the Palestinians
> 
> 
> 
> Ya know, these strawman arguments get old.  Why can't you respond to what "I" said?
Click to expand...

Dude why is it ok to say Jews can't pray at the wall? But not ok for the Israelites to limit Palestinians access to the wall?


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> How 'bout when it is alleged that two rockets were shot from Gaza, Israel launches 66 missiles in 12 hours at civilian infrastructure?
> 
> *Two Million Palestinians Are Victims of Israeli Airstrikes and Collective Punishment Policy… Gaza under 66 Israeli Airstrikes within 12 Hours, Rendering Dozens of Civilians Homeless after Destruction of Their Houses
> *​



Wow.  So, let me get this straight.  Israel conducts 66 airstrikes in acts of self-defense within 12 hours against buildings with military targets intentionally mixed in with a civilian population with NOT ONE fatality and only two casualties with minor injuries.  That level of military precision and concern for civilians is absolutely unprecedented.  

But, of course, Israel is evil, so the scale slides to demand Israel do even more.  Unbelievable.  The world has gone mad.


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> There isn't one rule for the rest of the world, and a totally different one for Israel ....



Yes.  We see this over and over again with Team Palestine.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel would stop firing killing and destroying infrastructure if the Palestinians stopped rioting, flying fire kites, firing rockets, into Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> No they wouldn't.  People can't even talk about Palestinian human rights without you fuckers going ballistic.
Click to expand...


Your arguments are irrational.  And your denial of reality rather appalling.  

Gaza is attacking Israel with indiscriminate rockets.
Gaza is rioting at the border and violent militants are mixed with the civilian population.  
Gaza is smuggling weapons to carry out these attacks.  
Gaza is using funds it receives to carry out these attacks, rather than assist its population.
Gaza is inciting the murder of Jews.
Gaza is calling for the "end of occupation" of the entire territory, thus the elimination of Israel.  

On the one hand you deny all this is actually happening, and on the other you insist that Israel is not permitted to use any sort of police or military action, nor any economic sanctions to prevent these attacks.  

Its utterly irrational.


----------



## Slyhunter

Shusha said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> How 'bout when it is alleged that two rockets were shot from Gaza, Israel launches 66 missiles in 12 hours at civilian infrastructure?
> 
> *Two Million Palestinians Are Victims of Israeli Airstrikes and Collective Punishment Policy… Gaza under 66 Israeli Airstrikes within 12 Hours, Rendering Dozens of Civilians Homeless after Destruction of Their Houses
> *​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.  So, let me get this straight.  Israel conducts 66 airstrikes in acts of self-defense within 12 hours against buildings with military targets intentionally mixed in with a civilian population with NOT ONE fatality and only two casualties with minor injuries.  That level of military precision and concern for civilians is absolutely unprecedented.
> 
> But, of course, Israel is evil, so the scale slides to demand Israel do even more.  Unbelievable.  The world has gone mad.
Click to expand...

It's piss ass poor they blew all that money and nobody died.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, it's when one sticks a swastike flag up ones bottom, and tries to run for the Israeli border
> while Bathtub Barry club cheers for such an original way to come out of the closet.
> 
> 
> 
> How 'bout when it is alleged that two rockets were shot from Gaza, Israel launches 66 missiles in 12 hours at civilian infrastructure?
> 
> *Two Million Palestinians Are Victims of Israeli Airstrikes and Collective Punishment Policy… Gaza under 66 Israeli Airstrikes within 12 Hours, Rendering Dozens of Civilians Homeless after Destruction of Their Houses
> *​And what is this bullshit of targeting medical personal?
> 
> *Attacks against medical teams:*
> 
> Three medics injured by army fire.
> Three ambulances partially damage by army fire.
> Seven journalists injured by army fire.
> You're a fucked up country with fucked up people!
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Billo, it is called WAR.  Whoever you wish to believe started any of the attacks since 1920 to this day, it is a war.
> 
> And clearly your posts are set up so that the leaders of the Palestinians have absolutely no responsibility for the "March or return" or any other attacks or deaths of Israelis.
> 
> Hamas and Islamic Jihad hide in civilian buildings, those buildings do, by combat law, become military targets.
> 
> Hamas members hide as Medics or any other civilians to fire at, hurl explosives, etc, they are military targets.
> 
> There isn't one rule for the rest of the world, and a totally different one for Israel to defend herself from this clearly dangerous attacks.
> 
> How is this any different from the Allies attacking places in Syria?
> Do you actually need a body count of civilians from both Assad and the Allied attacks?
> 
> Do you actually need a body count from all of those who have protested the Hamas leadership in Gaza only to find themselves being attacked, imprisoned or murdered by Hamas or Islamic Jihad?
> 
> You do not know what the issues are.
> 
> All you do is go Wah, wah, wah, every time Israel is attacked and she gives Hamas a darn good lesson.
> 
> Blame Hamas for hiding like roaches amongst the civilians, and stock piling rockets, firing rockets, explosive balloons and everything else they do from civilian areas.
> 
> AND blame Hamas for using its civilians to cover up the Hamas members at the border who attempt endlessly to break into Israel to kill Israelis.
> 
> No Country would put up with it.  With the US, there would have been one heavy strike on all of those protestors and they would have never bothered to come to the border fences again.
Click to expand...

WOW, so many bullshit Israeli talking points!


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, it's when one sticks a swastike flag up ones bottom, and tries to run for the Israeli border
> while Bathtub Barry club cheers for such an original way to come out of the closet.
> 
> 
> 
> How 'bout when it is alleged that two rockets were shot from Gaza, Israel launches 66 missiles in 12 hours at civilian infrastructure?
> 
> *Two Million Palestinians Are Victims of Israeli Airstrikes and Collective Punishment Policy… Gaza under 66 Israeli Airstrikes within 12 Hours, Rendering Dozens of Civilians Homeless after Destruction of Their Houses
> *​And what is this bullshit of targeting medical personal?
> 
> *Attacks against medical teams:*
> 
> Three medics injured by army fire.
> Three ambulances partially damage by army fire.
> Seven journalists injured by army fire.
> You're a fucked up country with fucked up people!
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Billo, it is called WAR.  Whoever you wish to believe started any of the attacks since 1920 to this day, it is a war.
> 
> And clearly your posts are set up so that the leaders of the Palestinians have absolutely no responsibility for the "March or return" or any other attacks or deaths of Israelis.
> 
> Hamas and Islamic Jihad hide in civilian buildings, those buildings do, by combat law, become military targets.
> 
> Hamas members hide as Medics or any other civilians to fire at, hurl explosives, etc, they are military targets.
> 
> There isn't one rule for the rest of the world, and a totally different one for Israel to defend herself from this clearly dangerous attacks.
> 
> How is this any different from the Allies attacking places in Syria?
> Do you actually need a body count of civilians from both Assad and the Allied attacks?
> 
> Do you actually need a body count from all of those who have protested the Hamas leadership in Gaza only to find themselves being attacked, imprisoned or murdered by Hamas or Islamic Jihad?
> 
> You do not know what the issues are.
> 
> All you do is go Wah, wah, wah, every time Israel is attacked and she gives Hamas a darn good lesson.
> 
> Blame Hamas for hiding like roaches amongst the civilians, and stock piling rockets, firing rockets, explosive balloons and everything else they do from civilian areas.
> 
> AND blame Hamas for using its civilians to cover up the Hamas members at the border who attempt endlessly to break into Israel to kill Israelis.
> 
> No Country would put up with it.  With the US, there would have been one heavy strike on all of those protestors and they would have never bothered to come to the border fences again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WOW, so many bullshit Israeli talking points!
Click to expand...


Wow, your usual pointless prattling.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> How 'bout when it is alleged that two rockets were shot from Gaza, Israel launches 66 missiles in 12 hours at civilian infrastructure?



And?
I don't hear You whine when they release a thousand Jihadi brides in exchange for one Israeli soldier.

Americans, and the rest of the western countries - would hang their leaders on main square and wipe you Jihadi filth from the face of the earth before the next NFL championship.


----------



## rylah

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just love it when you throw totally self contradictory statements one after another.
> 
> What happened to your "nations don't have rights"?
> Is it no rights for Jews, but territorial rights for every other nation?
> 
> 
> 
> What was self contradictory?  You threw up a UN resolution as proof a state has rights and I had to correct you that the "state" in your citation, was not the "state" the resolution was in reference to.
> 
> And again, I said nothing about Jews or Jewish rights.  So shove that part of your response up your ass!
Click to expand...


That You're now twisting terms to their opposite only shows the magnitude of the neurosis

Actually You came up with another document that proves states DO rights,
the usual duckdance started the moment when realizing Your links support the rights of the Jewish nation as well.

The hatred against Americans and the majority of Jews was merely a sympathy of the same mental impotency shared with the Jihadi filth, who's main achievement in life is burning a US flag.

Feel smart yet?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Slyhunter said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh... but it’s OK for the Palestinians to do so? Show me in Olmert’s peace proposal where he stated the Western Wall was off limits to the Palestinians
> 
> 
> 
> Ya know, these strawman arguments get old.  Why can't you respond to what "I" said?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude why is it ok to say Jews can't pray at the wall? But not ok for the Israelites to limit Palestinians access to the wall?
Click to expand...


You are not going to get an answer from the FUCKING ASSHOLE or any other Pro Palestinian


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Billo_Really said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh... but it’s OK for the Palestinians to do so? Show me in Olmert’s peace proposal where he stated the Western Wall was off limits to the Palestinians
> 
> 
> 
> Ya know, these strawman arguments get old.  Why can't you respond to what "I" said?
Click to expand...


I did you  Israel never claimed that Palestinians had no religious rights or ties to the Wall


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> You are playing the game of "There is absolutely NOTHING dangerous inside those civilian buildings.  No militants firing rocks, no stock pile of rockets, nothing which allows any country to attack those buildings which are being used as a military base by the enemy.
> 
> No, it does not happen in any war that civilian areas are targeted because the enemy is hiding like a rat behind civilians.


Prove it.  Prove those targets were of military necessity.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sixties Fan said:


> Billo, it is called WAR.  Whoever you wish to believe started any of the attacks since 1920 to this day, it is a war.
> 
> And clearly your posts are set up so that the leaders of the Palestinians have absolutely no responsibility for the "March or return" or any other attacks or deaths of Israelis.
> 
> Hamas and Islamic Jihad hide in civilian buildings, those buildings do, by combat law, become military targets.
> 
> Hamas members hide as Medics or any other civilians to fire at, hurl explosives, etc, they are military targets.
> 
> There isn't one rule for the rest of the world, and a totally different one for Israel to defend herself from this clearly dangerous attacks.
> 
> How is this any different from the Allies attacking places in Syria?
> Do you actually need a body count of civilians from both Assad and the Allied attacks?
> 
> Do you actually need a body count from all of those who have protested the Hamas leadership in Gaza only to find themselves being attacked, imprisoned or murdered by Hamas or Islamic Jihad?
> 
> You do not know what the issues are.
> 
> All you do is go Wah, wah, wah, every time Israel is attacked and she gives Hamas a darn good lesson.
> 
> Blame Hamas for hiding like roaches amongst the civilians, and stock piling rockets, firing rockets, explosive balloons and everything else they do from civilian areas.
> 
> AND blame Hamas for using its civilians to cover up the Hamas members at the border who attempt endlessly to break into Israel to kill Israelis.
> 
> No Country would put up with it.  With the US, there would have been one heavy strike on all of those protestors and they would have never bothered to come to the border fences again.


This is not a war.  A war is fought between two competing armies.  That's not what we have here.  On the one hand, we have the most militarized country on the planet and on the other, we have a population under occupation that is not even allowed to have weapons to defend itself.  This is not a war.

As far as the other things you said, you are completely full of shit.  You'll just make up anything on the fly to justify your inhuman treatment of the Palestinian's.


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> 1. don't bitch that Israel is better at firing rockets than Palestinians when it's the Palestinians who started it.
> 2. Don't bitch about shooting at medical personnel or ambulances when terrorists pretend to be medical personnel and use their vehicles to do their attacks.
> 3. I didn't hear you bitching when we were bombing the shit out of German civilians during WWII. If the Palestinians don't like carpet bombing in retaliation for their solders actions then they need to raise up and revolt and take Hamas out of power. They shouldn't of voted for them in the first place. So it's just as much their fault that Hamas is a terrorist regime because they voted for them.


It's none of your fucking business who they voted for!  You can't tell someone what to do on their own property.  Come over to my house and try that shit with me and see what happens next.


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> Dude why is it ok to say Jews can't pray at the wall? But not ok for the Israelites to limit Palestinians access to the wall?


Dude, that's not what I said.


----------



## Lipush

True what you say. But once you vote for a government that chooses war over anything else, you cannot expect war to not take place.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Wow.  So, let me get this straight.  Israel conducts 66 airstrikes in acts of self-defense within 12 hours against buildings with military targets intentionally mixed in with a civilian population with NOT ONE fatality and only two casualties with minor injuries.  That level of military precision and concern for civilians is absolutely unprecedented.
> 
> But, of course, Israel is evil, so the scale slides to demand Israel do even more.  Unbelievable.  The world has gone mad.


Prove they were military targets.  You are such a hypocrite.  You just got done saying you wanted zero rocket attacks before you would ease restrictions on Gaza, then do a complete about face with 66 airstrikes due to 2 rockets.  Fucking hypocrite!


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> Your arguments are irrational.  And your denial of reality rather appalling.
> 
> Gaza is attacking Israel with indiscriminate rockets.
> Gaza is rioting at the border and violent militants are mixed with the civilian population.
> Gaza is smuggling weapons to carry out these attacks.
> Gaza is using funds it receives to carry out these attacks, rather than assist its population.
> Gaza is inciting the murder of Jews.
> Gaza is calling for the "end of occupation" of the entire territory, thus the elimination of Israel.
> 
> On the one hand you deny all this is actually happening, and on the other you insist that Israel is not permitted to use any sort of police or military action, nor any economic sanctions to prevent these attacks.
> 
> Its utterly irrational.


I've proven what I said.  All you do is talk shit.


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> It's piss ass poor they blew all that money and nobody died.


Well, for the past year, Israel murdered over 200 people in cold blood and injured over 30,000 people.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's piss ass poor they blew all that money and nobody died.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, for the past year, Israel murdered over 200 people in cold blood and injured over 30,000 people.
Click to expand...


Weren't the Gazans trying to tear the fence down and charge into Israel to rip out the heats of Jews?  You make it sound as though Israel just shot and killed 200 ppl for no reason at all.


----------



## MJB12741

I tell  ya it's those damn Zionistgs who are to


Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Billo, it is called WAR.  Whoever you wish to believe started any of the attacks since 1920 to this day, it is a war.
> 
> And clearly your posts are set up so that the leaders of the Palestinians have absolutely no responsibility for the "March or return" or any other attacks or deaths of Israelis.
> 
> Hamas and Islamic Jihad hide in civilian buildings, those buildings do, by combat law, become military targets.
> 
> Hamas members hide as Medics or any other civilians to fire at, hurl explosives, etc, they are military targets.
> 
> There isn't one rule for the rest of the world, and a totally different one for Israel to defend herself from this clearly dangerous attacks.
> 
> How is this any different from the Allies attacking places in Syria?
> Do you actually need a body count of civilians from both Assad and the Allied attacks?
> 
> Do you actually need a body count from all of those who have protested the Hamas leadership in Gaza only to find themselves being attacked, imprisoned or murdered by Hamas or Islamic Jihad?
> 
> You do not know what the issues are.
> 
> All you do is go Wah, wah, wah, every time Israel is attacked and she gives Hamas a darn good lesson.
> 
> Blame Hamas for hiding like roaches amongst the civilians, and stock piling rockets, firing rockets, explosive balloons and everything else they do from civilian areas.
> 
> AND blame Hamas for using its civilians to cover up the Hamas members at the border who attempt endlessly to break into Israel to kill Israelis.
> 
> No Country would put up with it.  With the US, there would have been one heavy strike on all of those protestors and they would have never bothered to come to the border fences again.
> 
> 
> 
> This is not a war.  A war is fought between two competing armies.  That's not what we have here.  On the one hand, we have the most militarized country on the planet and on the other, we have a population under occupation that is not even allowed to have weapons to defend itself.  This is not a war.
> 
> As far as the other things you said, you are completely full of shit.  You'll just make up anything on the fly to justify your inhuman treatment of the Palestinian's.
Click to expand...


I tell ya it's those damn Zionists who are to blame for this endless conflict.  What kind of people make peace offerings to Palestinians, build a security fence & concede Palestinians their own Jew free land only to be thanked with rocket missiles?  Want peace?  Learn from history.  Treat the Palestinians in the only actions they understand for a lasting peace like Jordan did during Black September & LET THERE BE PEACE ALRFEADY!


----------



## Billo_Really

rylah said:


> That You're now twisting terms to their opposite only shows the magnitude of the neurosis
> 
> Actually You came up with another document that proves states DO rights,
> the usual duckdance started the moment when realizing Your links support the rights of the Jewish nation as well.
> 
> The hatred against Americans and the majority of Jews was merely a sympathy of the same mental impotency shared with the Jihadi filth, who's main achievement in life is burning a US flag.
> 
> Feel smart yet?


You really don't set the bar all that high.


----------



## Lipush

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's piss ass poor they blew all that money and nobody died.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, for the past year, Israel murdered over 200 people in cold blood and injured over 30,000 people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Weren't the Gazans trying to tear the fence down and charge into Israel to rip out the heats of Jews?  You make it sound as though Israel just shot and killed 200 ppl for no reason at all.
Click to expand...



That is what he says.


----------



## Billo_Really

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> You are not going to get an answer from the FUCKING ASSHOLE or any other Pro Palestinian


Unfortunately, I did answer his question. But you are right, I am an asshole.


----------



## Billo_Really

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> I did you  Israel never claimed that Palestinians had no religious rights or ties to the Wall


Do you have ADD?  Because that is not what I said.


----------



## Billo_Really

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Weren't the Gazans trying to tear the fence down and charge into Israel to rip out the heats of Jews?  You make it sound as though Israel just shot and killed 200 ppl for no reason at all.


Um, no, they were not trying to get into Israel to go after Jews.  The guy they shot in the back of the head was just having a cigarette.  They also shot a medic giving care to the wounded.  They shot a kid just looking for work.  They shot a guy in a wheelchair.  None of these people were trying to get through the fence.  Yet they were still shot.

And 30,000 people did not try to get into Israel.


----------



## Billo_Really

MJB12741 said:


> I tell  ya it's those damn Zionistgs who are to
> 
> 
> I tell ya it's those damn Zionists who are to blame for this endless conflict.  What kind of people make peace offerings to Palestinians, build a security fence & concede Palestinians their own Jew free land only to be thanked with rocket missiles?  Want peace?  Learn from history.  Treat the Palestinians in the only actions they understand for a lasting peace like Jordan did during Black September & LET THERE BE PEACE ALRFEADY!


You keep repeating that like you have nothing else to say.


----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> That is what he says.


I don't recall you asking me for permission to change your avatar, Lipbush.


----------



## Lipush

Dunno what you're talking about, Silly-Billy.


----------



## Lipush

Billo_Really said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Weren't the Gazans trying to tear the fence down and charge into Israel to rip out the heats of Jews?  You make it sound as though Israel just shot and killed 200 ppl for no reason at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Um, no, they were not trying to get into Israel to go after Jews.  The guy they shot in the back of the head was just having a cigarette.  They also shot a medic giving care to the wounded.  They shot a kid just looking for work.  They shot a guy in a wheelchair.  None of these people were trying to get through the fence.  Yet they were still shot.
> 
> And 30,000 people did not try to get into Israel.
Click to expand...



Well our army says they were not innocent, so I guess it's a word against word. If we're in naming innocent victims, will you be saying "murder in cold blood" about the the 13 year old girl who stabbed in her bed, or about the mother who was just looking towards another day of work but got shot in the head while being handcuffed? What about a baby who died before even being born? about the father of 6 children who got shot to death while wating for the bus? are Jews to be blamed for being "cold blooded" killers while Palestinian helpless victims no matter what they do?


----------



## MJB12741

Billo_Really said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I tell  ya it's those damn Zionistgs who are to
> 
> 
> I tell ya it's those damn Zionists who are to blame for this endless conflict.  What kind of people make peace offerings to Palestinians, build a security fence & concede Palestinians their own Jew free land only to be thanked with rocket missiles?  Want peace?  Learn from history.  Treat the Palestinians in the only actions they understand for a lasting peace like Jordan did during Black September & LET THERE BE PEACE ALRFEADY!
> 
> 
> 
> You keep repeating that like you have nothing else to say.
Click to expand...


Do you not agree those Zionists are wrong for treating the Palestinians with peace offerings, security fence & land concessions?


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Billo, it is called WAR.  Whoever you wish to believe started any of the attacks since 1920 to this day, it is a war.
> 
> And clearly your posts are set up so that the leaders of the Palestinians have absolutely no responsibility for the "March or return" or any other attacks or deaths of Israelis.
> 
> Hamas and Islamic Jihad hide in civilian buildings, those buildings do, by combat law, become military targets.
> 
> Hamas members hide as Medics or any other civilians to fire at, hurl explosives, etc, they are military targets.
> 
> There isn't one rule for the rest of the world, and a totally different one for Israel to defend herself from this clearly dangerous attacks.
> 
> How is this any different from the Allies attacking places in Syria?
> Do you actually need a body count of civilians from both Assad and the Allied attacks?
> 
> Do you actually need a body count from all of those who have protested the Hamas leadership in Gaza only to find themselves being attacked, imprisoned or murdered by Hamas or Islamic Jihad?
> 
> You do not know what the issues are.
> 
> All you do is go Wah, wah, wah, every time Israel is attacked and she gives Hamas a darn good lesson.
> 
> Blame Hamas for hiding like roaches amongst the civilians, and stock piling rockets, firing rockets, explosive balloons and everything else they do from civilian areas.
> 
> AND blame Hamas for using its civilians to cover up the Hamas members at the border who attempt endlessly to break into Israel to kill Israelis.
> 
> No Country would put up with it.  With the US, there would have been one heavy strike on all of those protestors and they would have never bothered to come to the border fences again.
> 
> 
> 
> This is not a war.  A war is fought between two competing armies.  That's not what we have here.  On the one hand, we have the most militarized country on the planet and on the other, we have a population under occupation that is not even allowed to have weapons to defend itself.  This is not a war.
> 
> As far as the other things you said, you are completely full of shit.  You'll just make up anything on the fly to justify your inhuman treatment of the Palestinian's.
Click to expand...

Then Hamas should surrender and stop attacking Israel then.


----------



## Slyhunter

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. don't bitch that Israel is better at firing rockets than Palestinians when it's the Palestinians who started it.
> 2. Don't bitch about shooting at medical personnel or ambulances when terrorists pretend to be medical personnel and use their vehicles to do their attacks.
> 3. I didn't hear you bitching when we were bombing the shit out of German civilians during WWII. If the Palestinians don't like carpet bombing in retaliation for their solders actions then they need to raise up and revolt and take Hamas out of power. They shouldn't of voted for them in the first place. So it's just as much their fault that Hamas is a terrorist regime because they voted for them.
> 
> 
> 
> It's none of your fucking business who they voted for!  You can't tell someone what to do on their own property.  Come over to my house and try that shit with me and see what happens next.
Click to expand...

They are too blame since they voted for terrorists. They are responsible for what those terrorist do since they voted for them. And it's my business when they are lobbing grenades and bombs into my backyard or the backyards of my friends the Israelites.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Billo_Really said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did you  Israel never claimed that Palestinians had no religious rights or ties to the Wall
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have ADD?  Because that is not what I said.
Click to expand...


You stated the Israelis have no Right to Claim the Wall for themselves inferring that the Palestinians have no Religious rights according to the Israelis but it’s OK for the Palestinians to declare a formal declaration that the Israelis have no rights to it? FUCK YOU.


----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> Well our army says they were not innocent, so I guess it's a word against word. If we're in naming innocent victims, will you be saying "murder in cold blood" about the the 13 year old girl who stabbed in her bed, or about the mother who was just looking towards another day of work but got shot in the head while being handcuffed? What about a baby who died before even being born? about the father of 6 children who got shot to death while wating for the bus? are Jews to be blamed for being "cold blooded" killers while Palestinian helpless victims no matter what they do?


No, it is not word against word.  Not only can I provide what your army says to the contrary, I can also provide 3rd party verification. In addition to that, I can provide the victims names.  Specific arguments take precedent over general ones.

So who was the 13 year old girl?  When was she stabbed?  Who was the mother being handcuffed?  Provide the army statement explaining why the people I listed were not innocent.  Who was the father of 6?  If you can't provide this information, then there is a good chance you are just making this up as you go along.

And every time you try to drag Jews into the argument, tells me you have no argument.  You push the Jew-card, because you have no valid rebuttal and all you want to do at that point, is shut down the conversation.


----------



## Billo_Really

MJB12741 said:


> Do you not agree those Zionists are wrong for treating the Palestinians with peace offerings, security fence & land concessions?


I already addressed this off topic point 6 years ago.  Go back and read it, if you don't remember.


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> Then Hamas should surrender and stop attacking Israel then.


Translation: Hamas should kiss Israel's ass like Fatah does.  That's the only reason Hamas is on your shit list, because they won't kiss Israel's ass!  Something I have no intention of doing.........._*ever!*_


----------



## Billo_Really

Slyhunter said:


> They are too blame since they voted for terrorists. They are responsible for what those terrorist do since they voted for them. And it's my business when they are lobbing grenades and bombs into my backyard or the backyards of my friends the Israelites.


The Israeli's voted for terrorists.  The Likud Party's roots are in Irgun.  Irgun was a terrorist group.  Israel is the biggest terrorist organization in the Middle East.  They run constant sorties in Gaza.  They shoot at people fishing, farming and peaceful protesting.  They bomb Syria.  Syria hasn't attacked Israel, yet Israel attacked them.  Israel attacked Lebanon.  In '67, they attacked Egypt.  I could go on and name many Israeli terrorist incidents, including the one that took out Israel's PM Rubin.  

Who was lobbing grenades?  The guy smoking a cigarette?  The guy fishing?  The guy in a wheelchair?  The medic giving care to the wounded?  Who?  Who were these grenade lobbers?  You shot your mouth off, now back it up!


----------



## Billo_Really

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> You stated the Israelis have no Right to Claim the Wall for themselves inferring that the Palestinians have no Religious rights according to the Israelis but it’s OK for the Palestinians to declare a formal declaration that the Israelis have no rights to it? FUCK YOU.


That's what I stated, but that's not what I inferred.  So I have to ask, if you didn't know what my point was, why did you respond to my post?  Because if you don't know what you are responding to, then you don't know what you are talking about.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Billo_Really said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> You stated the Israelis have no Right to Claim the Wall for themselves inferring that the Palestinians have no Religious rights according to the Israelis but it’s OK for the Palestinians to declare a formal declaration that the Israelis have no rights to it? FUCK YOU.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I stated, but that's not what I inferred.  So I have to ask, if you didn't know what my point was, why did you respond to my post?  Because if you don't know what you are responding to, then you don't know what you are talking about.
Click to expand...



You mean you “state something “ but didn’t infer  it?     Yet I stated the PLO actually Isuued a formal statement saying the Israelis have no right to it and you don’t have any comment?  FUCK YOU


----------



## Lipush

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well our army says they were not innocent, so I guess it's a word against word. If we're in naming innocent victims, will you be saying "murder in cold blood" about the the 13 year old girl who stabbed in her bed, or about the mother who was just looking towards another day of work but got shot in the head while being handcuffed? What about a baby who died before even being born? about the father of 6 children who got shot to death while wating for the bus? are Jews to be blamed for being "cold blooded" killers while Palestinian helpless victims no matter what they do?
> 
> 
> 
> No, it is not word against word.  Not only can I provide what your army says to the contrary, I can also provide 3rd party verification. In addition to that, I can provide the victims names.  Specific arguments take precedent over general ones.
> 
> So who was the 13 year old girl?  When was she stabbed?  Who was the mother being handcuffed?  Provide the army statement explaining why the people I listed were not innocent.  Who was the father of 6?  If you can't provide this information, then there is a good chance you are just making this up as you go along.
> 
> And every time you try to drag Jews into the argument, tells me you have no argument.  You push the Jew-card, because you have no valid rebuttal and all you want to do at that point, is shut down the conversation.
Click to expand...


I don't push the Jew card, I push the hypocricy card.

As for proof, gladly. I never make stuff up

Murder of Hallel Yaffa Ariel - Wikipedia

Before killing victim, Barkan terrorist forced Palestinian janitor to cuff her

Terror Victim Baby Named Amiad Israel at Funeral, Laid to Rest in Jerusalem

Slain rabbi mourned as ‘righteous man’ with ‘massive heart’


----------



## Billo_Really

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> You mean you “state something “ but didn’t infer  it?     Yet I stated the PLO actually Isuued a formal statement saying the Israelis have no right to it and you don’t have any comment?  FUCK YOU


I stated something, but you're the one who introduced what I allegedly inferred.  You did this more than once.  Even after I corrected you.  Not once have you asked, "What did you mean?"  Probably because you don't care what I meant?  You have your script and you intend to stick to it.

As far as the PLO statement, I was not aware they made that statement.  Now that I know, their statement is bullshit.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Billo_Really said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean you “state something “ but didn’t infer  it?     Yet I stated the PLO actually Isuued a formal statement saying the Israelis have no right to it and you don’t have any comment?  FUCK YOU
> 
> 
> 
> I stated something, but you're the one who introduced what I allegedly inferred.  You did this more than once.  Even after I corrected you.  Not once have you asked, "What did you mean?"  Probably because you don't care what I meant?  You have your script and you intend to stick to it.
> 
> As far as the PLO statement, I was not aware they made that statement.  Now that I know, their statement is bullshit.
Click to expand...


I have posted this link MANY times. Since you’re such a fan of “ International Law” Jordan was supposed to let the Israelis have access to their Religious Sites. Do you think this was done??  They destroyed Jewish History, dug up graves and literally used the Holes in the ground as latrines


----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> I don't push the Jew card, I push the hypocricy card.
> 
> As for proof, gladly. I never make stuff up
> 
> Murder of Hallel Yaffa Ariel - Wikipedia
> 
> Before killing victim, Barkan terrorist forced Palestinian janitor to cuff her
> 
> Terror Victim Baby Named Amiad Israel at Funeral, Laid to Rest in Jerusalem
> 
> Slain rabbi mourned as ‘righteous man’ with ‘massive heart’


If you're going to claim the "hypocrisy card", you should at least know how to spell it.  You are a hypocrite and I'll prove it right now.  You stated those people are not innocent based on what the "army" said.  Now I'm going to produce a statement by the same army and your response to this post will prove your hypocrisy.

*Testimony 50 – Rules of Engagement*
_"All Palestinians were suspects, so even ones waving white flags were shot.  *Orders were to shoot at everyone*, “even an old woman – take them down.”

*Testimony 34 – Rules of Engagement*
"Even though Israeli forces faced no resistance on entering Gaza, orders were that everyone is suspect.  Commander briefings stressed “aggressive action,” ...and having no regard for civilians. They’re all suspects."_​


----------



## Billo_Really

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> I have posted this link MANY times. Since you’re such a fan of “ International Law” Jordan was supposed to let the Israelis have access to their Religious Sites. Do you think this was done??  They destroyed Jewish History, dug up graves and literally used the Holes in the ground as latrines


Don't change the subject.  We were talking about the Wall.  Not everything under the sun.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Billo_Really said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have posted this link MANY times. Since you’re such a fan of “ International Law” Jordan was supposed to let the Israelis have access to their Religious Sites. Do you think this was done??  They destroyed Jewish History, dug up graves and literally used the Holes in the ground as latrines
> 
> 
> 
> Don't change the subject.  We were talking about the Wall.  Not everything under the sun.
Click to expand...


Not changing the subject. The PLO made a FORMAL STATEMENT that the Jews were NOT entitled to pray at the Western Wall .  
  Common sense would suggest this would apply to all Jewish Holy Sites in E. Jerusalem the way it did before 1967.


----------



## Shusha

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't push the Jew card, I push the hypocricy card.
> 
> As for proof, gladly. I never make stuff up
> 
> Murder of Hallel Yaffa Ariel - Wikipedia
> 
> Before killing victim, Barkan terrorist forced Palestinian janitor to cuff her
> 
> Terror Victim Baby Named Amiad Israel at Funeral, Laid to Rest in Jerusalem
> 
> Slain rabbi mourned as ‘righteous man’ with ‘massive heart’
> 
> 
> 
> If you're going to claim the "hypocrisy card", you should at least know how to spell it.  You are a hypocrite and I'll prove it right now.  You stated those people are not innocent based on what the "army" said.  Now I'm going to produce a statement by the same army and your response to this post will prove your hypocrisy.
> 
> *Testimony 50 – Rules of Engagement*
> _"All Palestinians were suspects, so even ones waving white flags were shot.  *Orders were to shoot at everyone*, “even an old woman – take them down.”
> 
> *Testimony 34 – Rules of Engagement*
> "Even though Israeli forces faced no resistance on entering Gaza, orders were that everyone is suspect.  Commander briefings stressed “aggressive action,” ...and having no regard for civilians. They’re all suspects."_​
Click to expand...


2009


----------



## Billo_Really

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Not changing the subject. The PLO made a FORMAL STATEMENT that the Jews were NOT entitled to pray at the Western Wall .
> Common sense would suggest this would apply to all Jewish Holy Sites in E. Jerusalem the way it did before 1967.


Well, the PLO are full of shit and its a stupid thing to say.  Jews have just as much a right to pray there as anyone else.  It is a holy place for many religions.  Except Tom Cruise.  He's not allowed to pray there.


----------



## Billo_Really

Shusha said:


> 2009


Thank you for proving my point.


----------



## Sixties Fan

No Way! Hamas Stops Terrorists from Burning Tires in Gaza Border Riots and the Reason is Shocking


----------



## Sixties Fan

3 Gazans caught entering Israel; one of them armed with a knife


----------



## Ropey




----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

_Hamas's violent repression of the social and economic protests against it, that broke out on March 14, 2019 across the Gaza Strip, has been harshly criticized both in Palestinian society and outside of it;[1] criticism was particularly harsh in the Gulf countries and Saudi Arabia. The Saudi press featured op-eds and columns justifying the protests and accusing Hamas of terrorism, oppression, and unbridled lust for power and control. The articles stated that Hamas had turned the Gaza Strip into a huge prison for its residents, that Hamas members had become the hangmen of the Gaza people, and that Hamas is in the same camp as terror movements and as the enemies of Saudi Arabia, among them the Muslim Brotherhood, Iran, Qatar, Hizbullah, and the Taliban. Several writers even called on the Arab countries to work to expel Hamas from Gaza and to restore Palestinian Authority (PA) control in the Gaza Strip; there were also those who argued that Hamas was more dangerous than Israel for Gaza residents. _

_Criticism of Hamas was also disseminated on social media; for example, Saudi journalist Azzah Al-Subaie responded to a news item on Hamas's violent dispersion of a demonstration by tweeting, "Hamas promises the public Paradise in the world to come – while its leaders prefer the Paradise of this world" – a reference to Hamas's corruption. _

(full article online)

Saudi Press Attacks Hamas For Suppressing Gaza Civil Protest: Hamas Members Have Become 'The Gazans' Hangmen,' And Capitalize On Gazans' Blood


----------



## Sixties Fan

A Gaza-based reporter with good ties to the Hamas leadership described to TPS how the terror group lures children to approach the border with Israel and puts them in life-endangering situations.

Hamas sends buses to mosques, where children go for activities. The children are then sent out by buses to the border fence. Each cluster of mosques is assigned to a designated zone on the fence.

Hamas provides refreshments, food and entertainment to entice the children to join them. Hamas has recently added free Wi-Fi to the experience, which enables the children to surf the net while Hamas broadcasts live footage from the violence.

Hamas has complete control of the level of violence on the fence, and orders the number of buses each week in accordance with its leadership’s decision on how large and violent the demonstrations will be. The plans are finalized by Wednesday, and one can assess the size of the pending Friday demonstration based on the number of buses Hamas has ordered that week.

Hamas has control of the hostilities to the extent that it has issued a religious decree that anyone who approaches the fence on his own volition and is killed will not be considered a Shahid, a martyr killed fighting the infidel.

The reporter noted that Hamas is losing its support in Gaza, and therefore has added more forms in which they can entice children to arrive at the border, including cash gifts.

(full article online)

Gazans Accuse Hamas of ‘Trading Children for Fish’


----------



## Sixties Fan

But the return marches did not achieve their strategic goal, which was defined by the Hamas leadership as the realization of the “right of return” to areas within the 1948 borders of the State of Israel. Instead, just as Sinwar put it, over the past year, the March of Return has become a lever for pressure for tactical purposes only, achieving relaxation in the tension inside Gaza, increasing the number of hours of electricity supply, operating the crossings, introducing goods and increasing the fishing zone.

Thus, the return marches lost the main purpose for which they had been initiated.

(full article online)

Think Tank: Hamas Knows Border Riots Have Failed


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas says 46 people injured in weekly "March of the Return" protests. IDF aircraft attack two Hamas military posts.

(full article online)

Thousands of Arabs demonstrate along Gaza border


----------



## Hollie

The peaceful riots at the Islamic terrorist gee-had roll on. 

Shot fired at Israeli troops from Gaza; IDF strikes Hamas posts in response

Shot fired at Israeli troops from Gaza; IDF strikes Hamas posts in response

No one injured in exchange, which comes as unofficial ceasefire agreement between Israel and terror group said to advance; thousands protest on border
19 April 2019, 4:09 pm  0




An Israeli Merkava battle tank on the border with the Gaza Strip on March 15, 2019. (Jack Guez/AFP)


A gunshot was reportedly fired at Israeli troops serving along the Gaza border on Friday, prompting a number of retaliatory strikes against nearby Hamas positions, the Israel Defense Forces said.



It’s as though the flunkies in Hamas enjoy being beaten down.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> The peaceful riots at the Islamic terrorist gee-had roll on.
> 
> Shot fired at Israeli troops from Gaza; IDF strikes Hamas posts in response
> 
> Shot fired at Israeli troops from Gaza; IDF strikes Hamas posts in response
> 
> No one injured in exchange, which comes as unofficial ceasefire agreement between Israel and terror group said to advance; thousands protest on border
> 19 April 2019, 4:09 pm  0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An Israeli Merkava battle tank on the border with the Gaza Strip on March 15, 2019. (Jack Guez/AFP)
> 
> 
> A gunshot was reportedly fired at Israeli troops serving along the Gaza border on Friday, prompting a number of retaliatory strikes against nearby Hamas positions, the Israel Defense Forces said.
> 
> 
> 
> It’s as though the flunkies in Hamas enjoy being beaten down.


  Haven't you heard?  Israel initiates it !


----------



## Sixties Fan

Since weekly violent demonstrations began along the Gaza security fence in March 2018, Hamas has insisted that these are popularly organized, peaceful protests. Neither claim is true. A detailed report by the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center shows that Hamas carefully established, and tightly controls, the “Supreme National Authority of the Return Marches and Lifting the Siege,” which masquerades as a civic organization coordinating the protests. It has likewise distributed terrorists among masses of peaceful demonstrators:

_Hamas . . . determines the nature of the marches and regulates their level of violence, in accordance with its strategy and its changing tactical considerations. It is Hamas that gives the marches their organizational, logistical, political, and media framework, based on the resources at its disposal as the largest and dominant organization in the Gaza Strip. In addition, Hamas operatives are those who are close to the border fence and engage in clashes with the IDF. Among the operatives who died during the marches, Hamas operatives constitute the highest percentage. The Supreme National Authority is composed of the terrorist organizations operating in the Gaza Strip. . . .

The marches are accompanied by a variety of violent actions whose nature and scope occasionally change [according to Hamas’s decrees]: stone throwing; throwing Molotov cocktails, hand grenades, and improvised explosive devices; shooting at IDF forces; damaging the border fence; sabotaging the border crossings; attempting to infiltrate into Israel; and launching kites and balloons equipped with incendiary devices and explosives at Israel.

In addition, special units were established for launching explosive and incendiary balloons, with the goal of causing damage and casualties and harassing the IDF and the civilian population of the western Negev communities at night. The systematic violence in the past year created a volatile and unstable situation that led to seven rounds of escalation, during which about 1,100 rockets and mortar shells were fired at Israel._

(full article online)

The Crisis in Yemen Poses a Strategic Threat to the U.S.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ If at first you fail..... fail and fail and fail again....just for good measure ]

IDF shoots at Gazans attempting to sabotage border fence


----------



## Mindful

Even British Channel 4's Anti-Israel Video on Gaza Cannot Hide Some Real Truths


----------



## Mindful

What are you 'thanking' me for, Tinnie?

Needless to say, the video is full of lies and half truths. Honest Reporting have already dealt with them, so instead of reinventing the wheel, I’ll point you to their takedown. Excerpt:

The video…fails to mention the deep involvement of Hamas in instigating the violence, even though the vast majority of those killed in the border riots were associated with the organization. The majority of the remainder were associated with a rival terror group, Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

Instead, viewers are simply told that “these families went to the front lines together,  and came back severely wounded,” and that over “260 people have been killed, 50 of them children.” That some of those minors killed were members of Hamas’s armed wing is not deemed relevant enough for inclusion in the video, naturally.

—

Beyond the omission of Hamas’s role in conducting the violence, there is also no coverage in the video of the thousands of explosive filled-balloons, condoms and kites that were launched on a daily basis for months. Nor do viewers see the result of the blazes sparked by these crude firebombs – many thousands of acres of scorched forest, crops and fields.

—

During the interview, a Gazan resident called Malina Al Hindi claims that a remote Israeli sniper fired an explosive bullet at her leg. If the credulous reporter had bothered to do his job and check claims made by interviewees, the quote would never have been given air-time: there is quite simply no such thing as an explosive bullet. They simply do not exist.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gaza operative: 'We'll throw the Jews into ditches like Hitler'


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israeli aircraft strike Hamas targets in Gaza after wave of fire balloons


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Changing tactics on the Gaza side ]

Over 100 rockets launched into Israel from Gaza; Iron Dome intercepts dozens


Woman in Kiryat Gat seriously wounded by shrapnel from Gaza rocket


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> What are you 'thanking' me for, Tinnie?
> 
> Needless to say, the video is full of lies and half truths. Honest Reporting have already dealt with them, so instead of reinventing the wheel, I’ll point you to their takedown. Excerpt:
> 
> The video…fails to mention the deep involvement of Hamas in instigating the violence, even though the vast majority of those killed in the border riots were associated with the organization. The majority of the remainder were associated with a rival terror group, Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
> 
> Instead, viewers are simply told that “these families went to the front lines together,  and came back severely wounded,” and that over “260 people have been killed, 50 of them children.” That some of those minors killed were members of Hamas’s armed wing is not deemed relevant enough for inclusion in the video, naturally.
> 
> —
> 
> Beyond the omission of Hamas’s role in conducting the violence, there is also no coverage in the video of the thousands of explosive filled-balloons, condoms and kites that were launched on a daily basis for months. Nor do viewers see the result of the blazes sparked by these crude firebombs – many thousands of acres of scorched forest, crops and fields.
> 
> —
> 
> During the interview, a Gazan resident called Malina Al Hindi claims that a remote Israeli sniper fired an explosive bullet at her leg. If the credulous reporter had bothered to do his job and check claims made by interviewees, the quote would never have been given air-time: there is quite simply no such thing as an explosive bullet. They simply do not exist.





Mindful said:


> the vast majority of those killed in the border riots were associated with the organization.


It doesn't matter. A civilian can only be considered a combatant when actively engaged in armed conflict. When unarmed they have civilian status.

"Exploding bullet" is a misnomer. This is what they mean.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> What are you 'thanking' me for, Tinnie?
> 
> Needless to say, the video is full of lies and half truths. Honest Reporting have already dealt with them, so instead of reinventing the wheel, I’ll point you to their takedown. Excerpt:
> 
> The video…fails to mention the deep involvement of Hamas in instigating the violence, even though the vast majority of those killed in the border riots were associated with the organization. The majority of the remainder were associated with a rival terror group, Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
> 
> Instead, viewers are simply told that “these families went to the front lines together,  and came back severely wounded,” and that over “260 people have been killed, 50 of them children.” That some of those minors killed were members of Hamas’s armed wing is not deemed relevant enough for inclusion in the video, naturally.
> 
> —
> 
> Beyond the omission of Hamas’s role in conducting the violence, there is also no coverage in the video of the thousands of explosive filled-balloons, condoms and kites that were launched on a daily basis for months. Nor do viewers see the result of the blazes sparked by these crude firebombs – many thousands of acres of scorched forest, crops and fields.
> 
> —
> 
> During the interview, a Gazan resident called Malina Al Hindi claims that a remote Israeli sniper fired an explosive bullet at her leg. If the credulous reporter had bothered to do his job and check claims made by interviewees, the quote would never have been given air-time: there is quite simply no such thing as an explosive bullet. They simply do not exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> the vast majority of those killed in the border riots were associated with the organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It doesn't matter. A civilian can only be considered a combatant when actively engaged in armed conflict. When unarmed they have civilian status.
> 
> "Exploding bullet" is a misnomer. This is what they mean.
Click to expand...


Are you trying to convince me of something, Tinnie? 


Still?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel closes Gaza border crossings over rocket fire


Islamic Jihad threatens attack on Dimona reactor, Ben Gurion Airport


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Oh, I see !!!!   Hamas started it because they are lazy bums who need handouts all the time to keep on going.  What EVERY Muslim Government should be like.  ]

In four days time, the State of Israel will mark Memorial Day and then Independence Day, and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu would not want to be marking those occasions in the midst of a major escalation with Gaza. In 10 days time, the Palestinians will mark Nakba Day, the anniversary of what they consider the catastrophe that befell them with the establishment of the State of Israel, while Israel will be hosting the semi-finals of the Eurovision Song Contest. Huge numbers of people around the world will be turning their attention to Tel Aviv.

Hamas recognizes that given the imminent Eurovision festivities, it has a real opportunity to create pressure points and obtain significant concessions on the ground. In other words: to blackmail Israel.

Hamas wants money and more money. And some of this appetite can be traced back to the decision by Netanyahu six months ago to allow the monthly transfer of $15 million in cash from Qatar to the Hamas scoffers.

Hamas’s attempts at extortion also stem from its recognition that the Gaza populace is expecting economic achievements and civilian achievements from its Islamist rulers. The fishing zone was cut back again after rocket fire earlier in the week. The economic situation in Gaza continues to be dire.

The Gaza unemployment rate has crossed 50%, and among graduates it is close to 70%. These are astonishing numbers, and combine with the reduction in salaries for Palestinian Authority officials in Gaza (as well as in the West Bank) and the US cuts both in aid to various projects in Gaza and to the Palestinian refugee welfare organization UNRWA.

Hamas fears a further deterioration in the economic situation, and now sees an opportunity to get Qatari money via Israel to at least partially alleviate that.

(full article online)

Why the Gaza rocket fire? Because Hamas thinks Israel is vulnerable to extortion


----------



## Sixties Fan

[  Israelis, never giving up their land !!!  Never Again !!]

Less than two kilometers (1.5 miles) from the Gaza border, Kibbutz Kfar Aza has around 800 residents. It is in the process of building 38 new housing units and absorbing the first 32 new members. Around ten families are on a waiting list.

The newcomers are generally a mix of kibbutz offspring, who completed their army service, traveled and then worked in the center of the country before deciding to return home to start families, people already renting on the kibbutz, or living in nearby cities such as Sderot and Ashkelon, or other kibbutzim in the area.

“It’s complex for people who don’t know the reality here,” said Shachar-Epstein, who is responsible for receiving new kibbutz members. “You can’t understand the constantly changing security situation until you live it and see how you react. It has happened more than once that people came and saw and began the process of applying to be accepted as kibbutz members before something happened. After the last round of escalation, a few weeks ago, three families dropped out.”

(full article online)

Despite rockets, arson balloons, Israeli communities on Gaza border keep growing


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> What are you 'thanking' me for, Tinnie?
> 
> Needless to say, the video is full of lies and half truths. Honest Reporting have already dealt with them, so instead of reinventing the wheel, I’ll point you to their takedown. Excerpt:
> 
> The video…fails to mention the deep involvement of Hamas in instigating the violence, even though the vast majority of those killed in the border riots were associated with the organization. The majority of the remainder were associated with a rival terror group, Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
> 
> Instead, viewers are simply told that “these families went to the front lines together,  and came back severely wounded,” and that over “260 people have been killed, 50 of them children.” That some of those minors killed were members of Hamas’s armed wing is not deemed relevant enough for inclusion in the video, naturally.
> 
> —
> 
> Beyond the omission of Hamas’s role in conducting the violence, there is also no coverage in the video of the thousands of explosive filled-balloons, condoms and kites that were launched on a daily basis for months. Nor do viewers see the result of the blazes sparked by these crude firebombs – many thousands of acres of scorched forest, crops and fields.
> 
> —
> 
> During the interview, a Gazan resident called Malina Al Hindi claims that a remote Israeli sniper fired an explosive bullet at her leg. If the credulous reporter had bothered to do his job and check claims made by interviewees, the quote would never have been given air-time: there is quite simply no such thing as an explosive bullet. They simply do not exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> the vast majority of those killed in the border riots were associated with the organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It doesn't matter. A civilian can only be considered a combatant when actively engaged in armed conflict. When unarmed they have civilian status.
> 
> "Exploding bullet" is a misnomer. This is what they mean.
Click to expand...



It’s just laughable when the gee-had wannabe lectures others on the Islamic terrorist version of law and then cuts and pastes YouTube videos that have no connection to the thread.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Massing rockets against Israel at the border ]

Army says 200 rockets fired toward Israel, injuring 2; IDF hits targets in Gaza



IDF destroys cross-border Islamic Jihad tunnel, warns of further strikes on Gaza


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> What are you 'thanking' me for, Tinnie?
> 
> Needless to say, the video is full of lies and half truths. Honest Reporting have already dealt with them, so instead of reinventing the wheel, I’ll point you to their takedown. Excerpt:
> 
> The video…fails to mention the deep involvement of Hamas in instigating the violence, even though the vast majority of those killed in the border riots were associated with the organization. The majority of the remainder were associated with a rival terror group, Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
> 
> Instead, viewers are simply told that “these families went to the front lines together,  and came back severely wounded,” and that over “260 people have been killed, 50 of them children.” That some of those minors killed were members of Hamas’s armed wing is not deemed relevant enough for inclusion in the video, naturally.
> 
> —
> 
> Beyond the omission of Hamas’s role in conducting the violence, there is also no coverage in the video of the thousands of explosive filled-balloons, condoms and kites that were launched on a daily basis for months. Nor do viewers see the result of the blazes sparked by these crude firebombs – many thousands of acres of scorched forest, crops and fields.
> 
> —
> 
> During the interview, a Gazan resident called Malina Al Hindi claims that a remote Israeli sniper fired an explosive bullet at her leg. If the credulous reporter had bothered to do his job and check claims made by interviewees, the quote would never have been given air-time: there is quite simply no such thing as an explosive bullet. They simply do not exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> the vast majority of those killed in the border riots were associated with the organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It doesn't matter. A civilian can only be considered a combatant when actively engaged in armed conflict. When unarmed they have civilian status.
> 
> "Exploding bullet" is a misnomer. This is what they mean.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you trying to convince me of something, Tinnie?
> 
> 
> Still?
Click to expand...


Palestinian Violence at protests - AOL Image Search Results

In his World this is " peaceful" Consider the source


----------



## Lipush

Some people are starting to leave the area, going up north. Oh, well.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ One can tell that Hamas told its population to stay away from the border this weekend.  Now we know why ]

Some 300 rockets launched at Israel; army says it destroyed cross-border tunnel, underground rocket factory

IDF bombs 120 Gaza targets, including attack tunnel, as rockets fired at Israel


Israeli aircraft said to strike cell launching rockets in Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

Iron Dome activated as rocket salvo fired at Beersheba


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Israel....you have no choice!!!!   LOL  ]

Hamas Demands $30 Million Ransom as Israel Cancels School


----------



## Sixties Fan

Watch: Destruction of Islamic Jihad Terror Tunnel


----------



## Sixties Fan

European leaders strongly condemn Gaza rocket fire on Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

Discuss

'Targeted killings and occupation of Gaza'


----------



## Sixties Fan

Beersheba targeted with heavy barrage late Saturday; Palestinians report continuing strikes in Strip; IDF says it will keep up attacks, ready for several days of fighting


Rocket fire from Gaza persists after midnight as fighting enters second day


----------



## rylah

Sixties Fan said:


> Discuss
> 
> 'Targeted killings and occupation of Gaza'








Needs a whole thread.
I think taking back Gaza is inevitable at  later stage for a number of reasons.
Targeted assassinations of Jihadi gang leaders could be a good tactic, by default, for any kind of attack, to create real deterrence for the fat billionaires.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Every four years or so Hamas starts a war because it wants something in order to survive.  What did it get last time?
Where is the pledge from Israel that it was not going to allow this to happen again?  That there would be consequences. 
Stay tuned.  That is all we can do right now.  
My thoughts are with the population of Israel, Jews and non Jews, who have to put up with this 7th century Barbarians ]


After firing 450 rockets in a day, Gaza terror groups threaten to increase range


Gearing up for days of fighting, IDF sends tank reinforcements to Gaza border


IDF attacks terrorists' homes hiding weapons


Watch: Damage from rocket fire at Sderot kindergarten


----------



## Sixties Fan

Once again, world media assumes baby probably killed by Hamas rocket was killed by Israel (update) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ A change in policy, at last ]

Report: Israel Attacking Neighborhood of Senior Hamas Leaders


----------



## Sixties Fan

Watch: IDF attacks Hamas infrastructure in Gaza


----------



## Lipush

Thank you for keeping everyone updated


----------



## Slyhunter

Palestinians want peace then they need to stop the violence, stop the riots at the border and there will be peace.


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF strikes 260 targets in Gaza

Rocket hits railway track, halting service

2 killed in rocket attacks on southern Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

Watch: Bike-riding terrorist eliminated


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Hamas forgets what the Israeli government decided after 2014 ]

Israeli journalist and military editor and senior defense analyst for Walla, Amir Bohbot, on Sunday afternoon tweeted: “Hamas and the Islamic Jihad have taken out of storage the most advanced Kornet missiles, and are threatening the main traffic arteries in the western Negev next to the Gaza Strip. This is a serious threat.
----------
All of which suggests that Hamas and the Jihad are preparing for a final encounter with the IDF, which has begun to mobilize its armored corps into the Gaza theater.

(full article online)

Report: In Preparation for Invasion, Hamas, Jihad, Deploying Portable Russian Kornet Anti-Tank Guided Missiles


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF Video Recap of the Last 24 Hours: Under Fire


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ What were Hamas and Islamic Jihad after ?  Not this.  But it is all they are going to get ]

Cabinet instructs IDF to up retaliatory attacks in Gaza


----------



## Lipush

No ceasefire declaired yet.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Lipush said:


> No ceasefire declaired yet.


A white Flag is what we should see.
Instead, this is what is happening in Gaza:

Gazans Celebrate Rocket Attacks on Israel as Death Count Climbs Up to Five Innocent Israelis


They are "Winning"


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Yes, Israel was STILL sending in Fuel into Gaza when the war started.  And war it is, no matter what people choose to call it.
No more ]

Israel stops Gaza fuel imports, cancels school after 4 killed in rocket barrage


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Just say NO.  Surrender and nothing else.  ]

Israel has yet to respond to Hamas’ offer.

The request for a ceasefire comes following a series of targeted assassinations of Hamas officials in Gaza, including *Hamed Ahmed Abed Khudari*, who had been the spear-head of Iranian fundraising efforts in the coastal enclave, smuggling large quantities of cash from Iran into Gaza.

A total of 13 Gazans have been killed since terror groups in the Strip began their attacks on Israel Saturday, firing more than 600 rockets and missiles at Israel.

(full article online)

Hamas offers ceasefire


----------



## Sixties Fan

ANALYSIS: How Israel can end rocket attacks from Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF attacks office of Hamas 'interior minister'


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Yes, Israel was STILL sending in Fuel into Gaza when the war started.  And war it is, no matter what people choose to call it.
> No more ]
> 
> Israel stops Gaza fuel imports, cancels school after 4 killed in rocket barrage



Of course its war.


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Just say NO.  Surrender and nothing else.  ]
> 
> Israel has yet to respond to Hamas’ offer.
> 
> The request for a ceasefire comes following a series of targeted assassinations of Hamas officials in Gaza, including *Hamed Ahmed Abed Khudari*, who had been the spear-head of Iranian fundraising efforts in the coastal enclave, smuggling large quantities of cash from Iran into Gaza.
> 
> A total of 13 Gazans have been killed since terror groups in the Strip began their attacks on Israel Saturday, firing more than 600 rockets and missiles at Israel.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Hamas offers ceasefire



I agree.  Just say no.  Seems like targeted assassinations of terrorists is working.  Apparently the leaders don't want to be martyred.  That's just for the servant class.


----------



## Sixties Fan

'Hamas is committing a double war crime with rocket attacks'


----------



## Slyhunter

Sixties Fan said:


> ANALYSIS: How Israel can end rocket attacks from Gaza


OK, nowhere in that story was a solution to ending rocket attacks from Gaza.
Don't these rockets show up on infrared, even if underground? Blow them up! When they have a parade with their kill Israel bullshit, Napalm them! No more parades. Nobody willing to do the solutions that will work.


----------



## Lipush

It's still going on.


----------



## Zorro!

Hamas Terrorist At Gaza Border Surprised To Hear Media Describe Him As Peaceful Protester.

GAZA STRIP—A member of militant terror group Hamas who had been attempting to breach the Israeli border after the opening of the U.S. embassy in Jerusalem confessed he was surprised to hear dozens of U.S. media outlets describe him as a “peaceful protester,” sources confirmed.

The aggressive “soldier of Allah,” who has declared he will not rest until Israel has been wiped off the face of the earth, admitted he wasn’t quite sure how to take the news that Western media had labeled him an innocent family man and unwitting victim of Israeli aggression.







“Frankly, I want to get in there and kill as many of the evil occupiers as I can,” he told reporters as he hid among women and children after hurling rocks and rolling burning tires toward Israeli soldiers stationed at the border. “So to be called a ‘peaceful demonstrator’ was a little off-putting. Don’t I deserve more credit for my efforts?”

“It’s kind of embarrassing, really. What if my family sees that?” he added.

It’s satire — or is it?


----------



## Sixties Fan

A 10th escalation is too much. It is time for the prime minister to live up to his obligation to the residents of Gaza border communities and the citizens of Israel as a whole.

(full article online)

https://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/things-have-to-change/


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Now into its 700th rocket.....soon to reach 1,000 ]

Gaza Terrorists Fire 700 Rockets at Israel Killing 4; IDF Strikes Back


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  Sixties Fan,  et al,

I tend to think it much more than just a couple of Article 8 violations.  In another thread, I was just in the last week, discussing this very thing.

No need for me to repeat that.



Sixties Fan said:


> 'Hamas is committing a double war crime with rocket attacks'


*(COMMENT)*

But my favorite is the violation of "Declaring that no quarter will be given!"  Any suggestion by payment to reward the murder of Israelis is essentially a "no quarter" _(or murder for hire and NOT self-defense)_. 

•  Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar warned Saturday that if there is a war between Israel and Gaza, Israel will be forced to evacuate Tel Aviv and Jewish communities on its southern border. •

• “Yahya Sinwar, the leader of Hamas in the Gaza, on Saturday praised the violent riots along the Gaza-Israel border” as tens of thousands of Palestinians massed along the border on the first anniversary of the “Great March of Return.” •​
This is not to be confused with Article 8g bis (Crime of Aggression) which covers the crime:

The sending by or on behalf of a State of armed bands, groups, irregulars or mercenaries, which carry out acts of armed force against another State of such gravity as to amount to the acts listed above, or its substantial involvement therein.​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Here is the sign that it is going to Happen Again ]

Hamas' television and other Palestinian Arab sources reported overnight Sunday that a ceasefire had been reached with Israel, and that it went into effect at 4:30 a.m.

However, Israel has not confirmed this.

Earlier, the rocket fire on Israel continued, as “Red Color” sirens were sounded in Ashkelon and in the regional councils of Eshkol, Hof Ashkelon, Sdot Negev and Bnei Shimon.

So far there have been no reports of rockets exploding or being intercepted. The IDF said the details are under investigation.

Report: Ceasefire reached in Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

“The campaign is not over and requires patience and judgment. We are preparing to continue,” the prime minister added. “The goal was and remains to ensure the peace and security of the residents of the south. I send condolences to the families and wish a speedy recovery for the wounded.”

(full article online)

As ceasefire goes into effect, Netanyahu says Gaza campaign not over


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> “The campaign is not over and requires patience and judgment. We are preparing to continue,” the prime minister added. “The goal was and remains to ensure the peace and security of the residents of the south. I send condolences to the families and wish a speedy recovery for the wounded.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> As ceasefire goes into effect, Netanyahu says Gaza campaign not over


They never mention the terms of the ceasefire.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> “The campaign is not over and requires patience and judgment. We are preparing to continue,” the prime minister added. “The goal was and remains to ensure the peace and security of the residents of the south. I send condolences to the families and wish a speedy recovery for the wounded.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> As ceasefire goes into effect, Netanyahu says Gaza campaign not over
> 
> 
> 
> They never mention the terms of the ceasefire.
Click to expand...


The terms:  Hamas stops firing rockets into Israel.  In the past couple of weeks, they have fired between 500 and 700 rockets into Israel before Israel finally retaliated.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> “The campaign is not over and requires patience and judgment. We are preparing to continue,” the prime minister added. “The goal was and remains to ensure the peace and security of the residents of the south. I send condolences to the families and wish a speedy recovery for the wounded.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> As ceasefire goes into effect, Netanyahu says Gaza campaign not over
> 
> 
> 
> They never mention the terms of the ceasefire.
Click to expand...


From the Islamic terrorist position, there is no ceasefire. There is a _Hudna_, which you should know from your Koran lessons, is a temporary pause in the gee-had to re-arm and assess prior to renewal of gee-had, ie: war against the kuffar.


----------



## Sixties Fan

EXCLUSIVE: Islamic Jihad Admits Its Own Rocket Killed Mother and Baby


----------



## Sixties Fan

The last 48 hours in Gaza:

We targeted 350 Islamic Jihad & Hamas targets including:

• rocket launch sites 
• terror squads & operatives
• command and training centers
• weapon facilities
• observation posts
• military compounds

Terror targets civilians, we target terror. pic.twitter.com/9wSS22PEjt

— Israel Defense Forces (@IDF) May 6, 2019





05/06 Links Pt1: As ceasefire goes into effect, PM says Gaza campaign not over; Amb Danon: When Hamas is exterminated, the people in Gaza will celebrate; Israel Should Adopt Barack Obama’s Counter-Terror Strategy ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> “The campaign is not over and requires patience and judgment. We are preparing to continue,” the prime minister added. “The goal was and remains to ensure the peace and security of the residents of the south. I send condolences to the families and wish a speedy recovery for the wounded.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> As ceasefire goes into effect, Netanyahu says Gaza campaign not over
> 
> 
> 
> They never mention the terms of the ceasefire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The terms:  Hamas stops firing rockets into Israel.  In the past couple of weeks, they have fired between 500 and 700 rockets into Israel before Israel finally retaliated.
Click to expand...

OK, but that is only Hamas' response.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Senior officials say Israel rejected the Egyptian ceasefire proposal, refusing to be dictated by the terror groups in Gaza, who apparently believed this flare-up would be over by Monday, when the holiday of Ramadan begins

(full article online)

Latest round of Gaza violence must be used to restore deterrence


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The last 48 hours in Gaza:
> 
> We targeted 350 Islamic Jihad & Hamas targets including:
> 
> • rocket launch sites
> • terror squads & operatives
> • command and training centers
> • weapon facilities
> • observation posts
> • military compounds
> 
> Terror targets civilians, we target terror. pic.twitter.com/9wSS22PEjt
> 
> — Israel Defense Forces (@IDF) May 6, 2019
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 05/06 Links Pt1: As ceasefire goes into effect, PM says Gaza campaign not over; Amb Danon: When Hamas is exterminated, the people in Gaza will celebrate; Israel Should Adopt Barack Obama’s Counter-Terror Strategy ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


Does this mean that Israel will continue its assault even with a ceasefire?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Sixties Fan said:


> Senior officials say Israel rejected the Egyptian ceasefire proposal, refusing to be dictated by the terror groups in Gaza, who apparently believed this flare-up would be over by Monday, when the holiday of Ramadan begins
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> Latest round of Gaza violence must be used to restore deterrence



What was the Egyptian ceasefire proposal?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> “The campaign is not over and requires patience and judgment. We are preparing to continue,” the prime minister added. “The goal was and remains to ensure the peace and security of the residents of the south. I send condolences to the families and wish a speedy recovery for the wounded.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> As ceasefire goes into effect, Netanyahu says Gaza campaign not over
> 
> 
> 
> They never mention the terms of the ceasefire.
Click to expand...


The usual, only less:

If riots decrease and attacks on Israel cease,
they get fishing zone, fuel and money from Qatar.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Iran's Hand Behind the Latest Flare Up in Gaza, Israel


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas launched a cyberattack during rocket barrage, so Israel blew up their cyber command center


----------



## Sixties Fan

Most terrorists killed in Gaza escalation were from Islamic Jihad


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Does this mean that Israel will continue its assault even with a ceasefire?



Its not a ceasefire if Israel doesn't agree to it.  A peace agreement is an agreement between two (or more) parties.  When Gaza starts a war, they should be prepared to have it finished.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Responding To Gaza Events, Saudis Tweet In Support Of Israel, Against Hamas


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> “The campaign is not over and requires patience and judgment. We are preparing to continue,” the prime minister added. “The goal was and remains to ensure the peace and security of the residents of the south. I send condolences to the families and wish a speedy recovery for the wounded.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> As ceasefire goes into effect, Netanyahu says Gaza campaign not over
> 
> 
> 
> They never mention the terms of the ceasefire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The usual, only less:
> 
> If riots decrease and attacks on Israel cease,
> they get fishing zone, fuel and money from Qatar.
Click to expand...


Just say no.  Why does Israel continue to play the ineffective game of "when terrorist groups try to kill our civilians in our sovereign territory, we give them goodies"?

Time to put this to right.  De-escalation and goodies will come only when POSITIVE steps towards PEACE occur.


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> “The campaign is not over and requires patience and judgment. We are preparing to continue,” the prime minister added. “The goal was and remains to ensure the peace and security of the residents of the south. I send condolences to the families and wish a speedy recovery for the wounded.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> As ceasefire goes into effect, Netanyahu says Gaza campaign not over
> 
> 
> 
> They never mention the terms of the ceasefire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The usual, only less:
> 
> If riots decrease and attacks on Israel cease,
> they get fishing zone, fuel and money from Qatar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just say no.  Why does Israel continue to play the ineffective game of "when terrorist groups try to kill our civilians in our sovereign territory, we give them goodies"?
> 
> Time to put this to right.  De-escalation and goodies will come only when POSITIVE steps towards PEACE occur.
Click to expand...


I cannot agree more, from what I hear and read, I think this is the most common opinion these days.
Slogans like "there's no right-wing in the govt - fact" are all over.

Though I don't see any actual Israeli agreement to the proposal, there was a week given to test if the message was received, tank and other armory already moving into area for everyone to be seen...
Netanyahu knows he can't lose public support before the party even started, and let's face it, it was all expected, and much bigger political event in front of us, people understand that too.
Even if we're already convinced of the outcome, we at least have to hear the proposal of a friend.

Peace is a word that damages anyone who uses it in the middle east.
Those who demand defeat and stop only when seeing a white flag, seem to get more of that 'peace'.


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> “The campaign is not over and requires patience and judgment. We are preparing to continue,” the prime minister added. “The goal was and remains to ensure the peace and security of the residents of the south. I send condolences to the families and wish a speedy recovery for the wounded.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> As ceasefire goes into effect, Netanyahu says Gaza campaign not over
> 
> 
> 
> They never mention the terms of the ceasefire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The usual, only less:
> 
> If riots decrease and attacks on Israel cease,
> they get fishing zone, fuel and money from Qatar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just say no.  Why does Israel continue to play the ineffective game of "when terrorist groups try to kill our civilians in our sovereign territory, we give them goodies"?
> 
> Time to put this to right.  De-escalation and goodies will come only when POSITIVE steps towards PEACE occur.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I cannot agree more, from what I hear and read, I think this is the most common opinion these days.
> Slogans like "there's no right-wing in the govt - fact" are all over.
> 
> Though I don't see any actual Israeli agreement to the proposal, there was a week given to test if the message was received, tank and other armory already moving into area for everyone to be seen...
> Netanyahu knows he can't lose public support before the party even started, and let's face it, it was all expected, and much bigger political event in front of us, people understand that too.
> Even if we're already convinced of the outcome, we at least have to hear the proposal of a friend.
> 
> Peace is a word that damages anyone who uses it in the middle east.
> Those who demand defeat and stop only when seeing a white flag, seem to get more of that 'peace'.
Click to expand...


Its time for some really, really concrete steps towards _defeat_ for Gaza.  Time for Israel to make demands on them and have consequences when those demands are not met.  You want fuel?  Or Qatari cash?  Or a fishing zone?  Cool.  Here's what you have to do to get it: end the protests at the border; no rocket attacks for six months; no attacks at border checkpoints for six months.  

You want some substantial goodies?  We got lots of goodies.  Here's what you have to do to get them.  

And if you want to continue to attack us, then the consequences will be the loss of your leaders, one by one, in targeted attacks, until no one will want to be involved with Hamas or Islamic Jihad.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, what "ceasefire" did → HAMAS → agree to and when?



P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last 48 hours in Gaza:
> 
> We targeted 350 Islamic Jihad & Hamas targets including:
> 
> • rocket launch sites
> • terror squads & operatives
> • command and training centers
> • weapon facilities
> • observation posts
> • military compounds​
> Terror targets civilians, we target terror. pic.twitter.com/9wSS22PEjt
> 
> — Israel Defense Forces (@IDF) May 6, 2019
> 
> 05/06 Links Pt1: As ceasefire goes into effect, PM says Gaza campaign not over; Amb Danon: When Hamas is exterminated, the people in Gaza will celebrate; Israel Should Adopt Barack Obama’s Counter-Terror Strategy ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Does this mean that Israel will continue its assault even with a ceasefire?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

This "Ceasefire Agreement" is a manipulative tool used by the Palestinians.  They are trying to create a timeline that suggests the Israelis are breaking the agreement.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, what "ceasefire" did → HAMAS → agree to and when?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last 48 hours in Gaza:
> 
> We targeted 350 Islamic Jihad & Hamas targets including:
> 
> • rocket launch sites
> • terror squads & operatives
> • command and training centers
> • weapon facilities
> • observation posts
> • military compounds​
> Terror targets civilians, we target terror. pic.twitter.com/9wSS22PEjt
> 
> — Israel Defense Forces (@IDF) May 6, 2019
> 
> 05/06 Links Pt1: As ceasefire goes into effect, PM says Gaza campaign not over; Amb Danon: When Hamas is exterminated, the people in Gaza will celebrate; Israel Should Adopt Barack Obama’s Counter-Terror Strategy ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Does this mean that Israel will continue its assault even with a ceasefire?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This "Ceasefire Agreement" is a manipulative tool used by the Palestinians.  They are trying to create a timeline that suggests the Israelis are breaking the agreement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Hudna =  Rinse......Repeat


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, what "ceasefire" did → HAMAS → agree to and when?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last 48 hours in Gaza:
> 
> We targeted 350 Islamic Jihad & Hamas targets including:
> 
> • rocket launch sites
> • terror squads & operatives
> • command and training centers
> • weapon facilities
> • observation posts
> • military compounds​
> Terror targets civilians, we target terror. pic.twitter.com/9wSS22PEjt
> 
> — Israel Defense Forces (@IDF) May 6, 2019
> 
> 05/06 Links Pt1: As ceasefire goes into effect, PM says Gaza campaign not over; Amb Danon: When Hamas is exterminated, the people in Gaza will celebrate; Israel Should Adopt Barack Obama’s Counter-Terror Strategy ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Does this mean that Israel will continue its assault even with a ceasefire?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This "Ceasefire Agreement" is a manipulative tool used by the Palestinians.  They are trying to create a timeline that suggests the Israelis are breaking the agreement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israel has a long habit of shooting anyone it wants and destroying anything it wants during ceasefires.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, what "ceasefire" did → HAMAS → agree to and when?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last 48 hours in Gaza:
> 
> We targeted 350 Islamic Jihad & Hamas targets including:
> 
> • rocket launch sites
> • terror squads & operatives
> • command and training centers
> • weapon facilities
> • observation posts
> • military compounds​
> Terror targets civilians, we target terror. pic.twitter.com/9wSS22PEjt
> 
> — Israel Defense Forces (@IDF) May 6, 2019
> 
> 05/06 Links Pt1: As ceasefire goes into effect, PM says Gaza campaign not over; Amb Danon: When Hamas is exterminated, the people in Gaza will celebrate; Israel Should Adopt Barack Obama’s Counter-Terror Strategy ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Does this mean that Israel will continue its assault even with a ceasefire?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This "Ceasefire Agreement" is a manipulative tool used by the Palestinians.  They are trying to create a timeline that suggests the Israelis are breaking the agreement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has a long habit of shooting anyone it wants and destroying anything it wants during ceasefires.
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## Sixties Fan

New Islamic Jihad "Badr-3" missile designed in Iran ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, what "ceasefire" did → HAMAS → agree to and when?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last 48 hours in Gaza:
> 
> We targeted 350 Islamic Jihad & Hamas targets including:
> 
> • rocket launch sites
> • terror squads & operatives
> • command and training centers
> • weapon facilities
> • observation posts
> • military compounds​
> Terror targets civilians, we target terror. pic.twitter.com/9wSS22PEjt
> 
> — Israel Defense Forces (@IDF) May 6, 2019
> 
> 05/06 Links Pt1: As ceasefire goes into effect, PM says Gaza campaign not over; Amb Danon: When Hamas is exterminated, the people in Gaza will celebrate; Israel Should Adopt Barack Obama’s Counter-Terror Strategy ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Does this mean that Israel will continue its assault even with a ceasefire?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This "Ceasefire Agreement" is a manipulative tool used by the Palestinians.  They are trying to create a timeline that suggests the Israelis are breaking the agreement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has a long habit of shooting anyone it wants and destroying anything it wants during ceasefires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

I am not going to sit here all day bringing you up to speed on all of the news you seem to have missed over the years. Here is just one example that started Cast Lied.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, what "ceasefire" did → HAMAS → agree to and when?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last 48 hours in Gaza:
> 
> We targeted 350 Islamic Jihad & Hamas targets including:
> 
> • rocket launch sites
> • terror squads & operatives
> • command and training centers
> • weapon facilities
> • observation posts
> • military compounds​
> Terror targets civilians, we target terror. pic.twitter.com/9wSS22PEjt
> 
> — Israel Defense Forces (@IDF) May 6, 2019
> 
> 05/06 Links Pt1: As ceasefire goes into effect, PM says Gaza campaign not over; Amb Danon: When Hamas is exterminated, the people in Gaza will celebrate; Israel Should Adopt Barack Obama’s Counter-Terror Strategy ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> 
> 
> Does this mean that Israel will continue its assault even with a ceasefire?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This "Ceasefire Agreement" is a manipulative tool used by the Palestinians.  They are trying to create a timeline that suggests the Israelis are breaking the agreement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has a long habit of shooting anyone it wants and destroying anything it wants during ceasefires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not going to sit here all day bringing you up to speed on all of the news you seem to have missed over the years. Here is just one example that started Cast Lied.
Click to expand...


I was expecting a cut and paste YouTube video which is why I have to ask "CNN confirms" means what?

You apparently decided to Islamo-tap dance around your earlier comment which was:

"Israel has a long habit of shooting anyone it wants and destroying anything it wants during ceasefires."

The cut and paste YouTube video does not support your comment.

Same question as before.

Link?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,

Yes, yes, yes, There are many such stories published about the 6 HAMAS fighters working in the tunnels.  It can be viewed in perspective that:


			
				By Nidal al-Mughrabi and Dan Williams said:
			
		

> GAZA/JERUSALEM (Reuters) – Six Palestinian militants were killed on Monday when Israel blew up what it said was a tunnel being dug across the Gaza Strip border.
> 
> A source for the Islamic Jihad militant group said Arafat Abu Marshould, head of the faction’s armed wing in central Gaza, was killed along with a senior associate and two other gunmen. The group said it had put its fighters on “full alert.”
> 
> 
> 
> Newsweek Magazine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the 2014 war, the tunnels became Hamas’s most powerful weapon. Hamas and other militants fired 4,800 rockets into Israel, according to the U.N., but Israel’s sophisticated Iron Dome anti-missile system succeeded in shooting down most rockets fired from Gaza before they could land in civilian towns and cities. Tunnels were harder to combat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian militants from the Al-Quds Brigades squat in a tunnel during military training in the
> southern Gaza Strip in March 2015. Mahmud Hams/AFP/Getty​SOURCE:  *HAMAS Is Tunneling its Way Into Israel, Again* By Yardena Schwartz  On 3/8/16
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> I am not going to sit here all day bringing you up to speed on all of the news you seem to have missed over the years. Here is just one example that started Cast Lied.
> ​


*(COMMENT)*

The CNN News Spot Report is somewhat skewed.

I don't think anyone who looks at the facts can conclude that the "work-in-progress" on the "penetration tunnel into Israel" was not → in itself → a hostile act.  Who shoots first is often taken to naive and extreme lengths.  If you are attempting to breach the border of Israel _(on the ground, above the ground, or below the ground)_ *it is an attack*_ (whether it is fast moving or slowed to a snail pace)_.  An attack is an attack.  It is not necessary that a determination be made as to who fired the "first shot" in such cases.  What is important is that the naive listener to such Spot Reporting understand that an underground attack in progress - and by tunnel - is still an attack.

And the nonsense that Israel controls the complete blockade of the Gaza Strip or the West Bank _(including Jerusalem)_ is a bit misrepresented when you take notice that Egypt and Jordan _(both)_ offer an alternative route in and out of those territories.  But! Eqypt and Jordan _(both)_ decline that option.  One can only wonder why that is...

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,

BTW, any day is a - good day → to kill a terrorist _(Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters)_.  That would include the HAMAS and/or the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.  It does not matter whether you use Ameican rules or European rules.It has been true, it is true now, and will remain true into the foreseeable future, that the eradication of these entities is not open for debate. 

If Israel killed six (or 600) members of a designed terrorist group _(of which HAMAS and the PIJ are)_, Israel should be given a medal for valor --- not given a hard time about it because those bastards where caught in the tunnels headed towards Israel.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> Yes, yes, yes, There are many such stories published about the 6 HAMAS fighters working in the tunnels.  It can be viewed in perspective that:
> 
> 
> 
> By Nidal al-Mughrabi and Dan Williams said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GAZA/JERUSALEM (Reuters) – Six Palestinian militants were killed on Monday when Israel blew up what it said was a tunnel being dug across the Gaza Strip border.
> 
> A source for the Islamic Jihad militant group said Arafat Abu Marshould, head of the faction’s armed wing in central Gaza, was killed along with a senior associate and two other gunmen. The group said it had put its fighters on “full alert.”
> 
> 
> 
> Newsweek Magazine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the 2014 war, the tunnels became Hamas’s most powerful weapon. Hamas and other militants fired 4,800 rockets into Israel, according to the U.N., but Israel’s sophisticated Iron Dome anti-missile system succeeded in shooting down most rockets fired from Gaza before they could land in civilian towns and cities. Tunnels were harder to combat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian militants from the Al-Quds Brigades squat in a tunnel during military training in the
> southern Gaza Strip in March 2015. Mahmud Hams/AFP/Getty​SOURCE:  *HAMAS Is Tunneling its Way Into Israel, Again* By Yardena Schwartz  On 3/8/16
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not going to sit here all day bringing you up to speed on all of the news you seem to have missed over the years. Here is just one example that started Cast Lied.
> View attachment 259814​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The CNN News Spot Report is somewhat skewed.
> 
> I don't think anyone who looks at the facts can conclude that the "work-in-progress" on the "penetration tunnel into Israel" was not → in itself → a hostile act.  Who shoots first is often taken to naive and extreme lengths.  If you are attempting to breach the border of Israel _(on the ground, above the ground, or below the ground)_ *it is an attack*_ (whether it is fast moving or slowed to a snail pace)_.  An attack is an attack.  It is not necessary that a determination be made as to who fired the "first shot" in such cases.  What is important is that the naive listener to such Spot Reporting understand that an underground attack in progress - and by tunnel - is still an attack.
> 
> And the nonsense that Israel controls the complete blockade of the Gaza Strip or the West Bank _(including Jerusalem)_ is a bit misrepresented when you take notice that Egypt and Jordan _(both)_ offer an alternative route in and out of those territories.  But! Eqypt and Jordan _(both)_ decline that option.  One can only wonder why that is...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

All that blabber does not refute my premise.

Israel has a long habit of shooting anyone it wants and destroying anything it wants during ceasefires.​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,
> 
> Yes, yes, yes, There are many such stories published about the 6 HAMAS fighters working in the tunnels.  It can be viewed in perspective that:
> 
> 
> 
> By Nidal al-Mughrabi and Dan Williams said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GAZA/JERUSALEM (Reuters) – Six Palestinian militants were killed on Monday when Israel blew up what it said was a tunnel being dug across the Gaza Strip border.
> 
> A source for the Islamic Jihad militant group said Arafat Abu Marshould, head of the faction’s armed wing in central Gaza, was killed along with a senior associate and two other gunmen. The group said it had put its fighters on “full alert.”
> 
> 
> 
> Newsweek Magazine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the 2014 war, the tunnels became Hamas’s most powerful weapon. Hamas and other militants fired 4,800 rockets into Israel, according to the U.N., but Israel’s sophisticated Iron Dome anti-missile system succeeded in shooting down most rockets fired from Gaza before they could land in civilian towns and cities. Tunnels were harder to combat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian militants from the Al-Quds Brigades squat in a tunnel during military training in the
> southern Gaza Strip in March 2015. Mahmud Hams/AFP/Getty​SOURCE:  *HAMAS Is Tunneling its Way Into Israel, Again* By Yardena Schwartz  On 3/8/16
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not going to sit here all day bringing you up to speed on all of the news you seem to have missed over the years. Here is just one example that started Cast Lied.
> View attachment 259814​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The CNN News Spot Report is somewhat skewed.
> 
> I don't think anyone who looks at the facts can conclude that the "work-in-progress" on the "penetration tunnel into Israel" was not → in itself → a hostile act.  Who shoots first is often taken to naive and extreme lengths.  If you are attempting to breach the border of Israel _(on the ground, above the ground, or below the ground)_ *it is an attack*_ (whether it is fast moving or slowed to a snail pace)_.  An attack is an attack.  It is not necessary that a determination be made as to who fired the "first shot" in such cases.  What is important is that the naive listener to such Spot Reporting understand that an underground attack in progress - and by tunnel - is still an attack.
> 
> And the nonsense that Israel controls the complete blockade of the Gaza Strip or the West Bank _(including Jerusalem)_ is a bit misrepresented when you take notice that Egypt and Jordan _(both)_ offer an alternative route in and out of those territories.  But! Eqypt and Jordan _(both)_ decline that option.  One can only wonder why that is...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All that blabber does not refute my premise.
> 
> Israel has a long habit of shooting anyone it wants and destroying anything it wants during ceasefires.​
Click to expand...


Nonsense. Your "premise" self refutes. You are desperate to excuse hostile acts by islamic terrorists such as burrowing underground in preparation for further acts of war. You presume an entitlement to acts of war without consequence and the Israelis have plans in place to dismantle your entitlement.

So, you still have offered nothing to support your earlier statement.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> All that blabber does not refute my premise.
> 
> Israel has a long habit of shooting anyone it wants and destroying anything it wants during ceasefires.​



So by "shooting anyone it wants", you actually mean "shooting terrorists actively engaging in an attack on Israel's sovereign territory and/or citizens".

And by "destroying anything it wants", you actually mean "destroying military objects designed to bring harm to Israeli sovereignty and/or citizens".  

You are condemning Israel for destroying military objects and personnel actively engaged in attacking her during a ceasefire and then blaming Israel for breaking ceasefire.  Its ridiculous.


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All that blabber does not refute my premise.
> 
> Israel has a long habit of shooting anyone it wants and destroying anything it wants during ceasefires.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So by "shooting anyone it wants", you actually mean "shooting terrorists actively engaging in an attack on Israel's sovereign territory and/or citizens".
> 
> And by "destroying anything it wants", you actually mean "destroying military objects designed to bring harm to Israeli sovereignty and/or citizens".
> 
> You are condemning Israel for destroying military objects and personnel actively engaged in attacking her during a ceasefire and then blaming Israel for breaking ceasefire.  Its ridiculous.
Click to expand...


Neither does he mention that the response for loosing 6 Hamas gunmen
 was to shoot rockets on civilians for several month.


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> “The campaign is not over and requires patience and judgment. We are preparing to continue,” the prime minister added. “The goal was and remains to ensure the peace and security of the residents of the south. I send condolences to the families and wish a speedy recovery for the wounded.”
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> As ceasefire goes into effect, Netanyahu says Gaza campaign not over
> 
> 
> 
> They never mention the terms of the ceasefire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The usual, only less:
> 
> If riots decrease and attacks on Israel cease,
> they get fishing zone, fuel and money from Qatar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just say no.  Why does Israel continue to play the ineffective game of "when terrorist groups try to kill our civilians in our sovereign territory, we give them goodies"?
> 
> Time to put this to right.  De-escalation and goodies will come only when POSITIVE steps towards PEACE occur.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I cannot agree more, from what I hear and read, I think this is the most common opinion these days.
> Slogans like "there's no right-wing in the govt - fact" are all over.
> 
> Though I don't see any actual Israeli agreement to the proposal, there was a week given to test if the message was received, tank and other armory already moving into area for everyone to be seen...
> Netanyahu knows he can't lose public support before the party even started, and let's face it, it was all expected, and much bigger political event in front of us, people understand that too.
> Even if we're already convinced of the outcome, we at least have to hear the proposal of a friend.
> 
> Peace is a word that damages anyone who uses it in the middle east.
> Those who demand defeat and stop only when seeing a white flag, seem to get more of that 'peace'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its time for some really, really concrete steps towards _defeat_ for Gaza.  Time for Israel to make demands on them and have consequences when those demands are not met.  You want fuel?  Or Qatari cash?  Or a fishing zone?  Cool.  Here's what you have to do to get it: end the protests at the border; no rocket attacks for six months; no attacks at border checkpoints for six months.
> 
> You want some substantial goodies?  We got lots of goodies.  Here's what you have to do to get them.
> 
> And if you want to continue to attack us, then the consequences will be the loss of your leaders, one by one, in targeted attacks, until no one will want to be involved with Hamas or Islamic Jihad.
Click to expand...


I agree 100%

That's great on paper as an isolated tactic for a specific enemy.
But what is the bigger picture right now? What's the long term plan and priorities?

For now I think the Judean highpoint is of most importance. No argument, the strategy with Hamas has to change, and no other threat justifies negligent weakness. But until there's no clear declared readiness for decisive initiation, it's the chess game that it is. And eventually, from the little I gather, I end up agreeing with Netanyahu's calculation, I don't think it's further from what we both agree upon.

We need to see how the new govt functions when formed in full capacity.
That is happening "as we speak".


----------



## rylah

And by the way, I DO think that the pro-Israeli voice has a lot influence, or let's say it is really, and naturally listened to and taken in account into considerations. Netanyahu is a human being at the end of the day, he needs people behind him as the people need him strong and wise. It's mutual and we're a small tribe.

It's not inconsequential, all I'm saying - *Sound Your Voice.*


----------



## rylah

Indeependent  do You know anything more concrete regarding what we're discussing with Shusha?


----------



## Mindful

All decent people should be outraged at the terrorist groups in the Gaza Strip that fired 698 rockets at Israeli civilians, killing four, injuring 234 and traumatizing thousands of innocent children. Pictured: A house in the city of Ashkelon, Israel that was damaged by a rocket strike from the Gaza Strip on May 6, 2019. (Photo by Lior Mizrahi/Getty Images)


----------



## Sixties Fan

Asbah, 48, was a resident of the village of Halhul near Hevron. He was killed by a Hamas rocket which struck the city of Ashkelon six month ago while he was working inside Israel on a legal permit.

(full article online)

Israel recognizes PA resident as victim of terror


----------



## Sixties Fan

Who won the weekend mini-war in Gaza? (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

Concrete wall put up along road where Israeli man was killed in missile attack


----------



## Sixties Fan

Caroline Glick: Israel Must Prepare for Next War with Hamas | Breitbart


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Oh, look.....they are back to their worthless, useless Peaceful Riots, where they can try to invade Israel and kill Jews ]

Rioter killed along Gaza-Israel border


----------



## Sixties Fan

Report: 3/4 of Palestinians Killed in Latest Gaza Flare-Up Were Terrorists


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Oh, look.....they are back to their worthless, useless Peaceful Riots, where they can try to invade Israel and kill Jews ]
> 
> Rioter killed along Gaza-Israel border



It’s a start


----------



## Sixties Fan

Report: Identities of Palestinian Arabs killed in the latest fighting


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.


----------



## Slyhunter

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.


No, they shoot mobs of people trying to penetrate the border, roll burning tires, fly burning kites, and launch rockets.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.



Egypt can open the Rafah gates only for short periods of time,
the "political" problem is merely how much Europe is willing to take.

35,000 in less than a week from Gaza, 20,000 each month from PA controlled areas.
Keep dreaming Pallywood.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.



Arabs-Moslems trying to gee-had their way out of their politico-religious failure.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

OH! But for the love of the Supreme Being...



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.


*(CONCEPT)*

*◈*  Let's talk about the central theme.



			
				Article 2(4) said:
			
		

> _*All Members*_ shall refrain in their international relations from:
> ✦  the threat or use of force
> ✦  against the territorial integrity or political independence
> ✦  of any state,
> ✦  or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.​



*(COMMENT)*

The problem with this state is that it is again, an attempt to misrepresent the facts.

1947 → 1949:  Israeli War of Independence Arab League Attacks (Not Israel)
1956 → → →  Sinai War Freedom of Navigation for Israel in the Gulf of Aqaba
1967 → → →  Six Day War Egypt expels the UN Emergency Force and rushes 100,000 troops and 900 tanks into the Sinai (Eminent Attack) 
1973 → → →  Yom Kipper War  Arab League Surprise Attack on Israel 
etc, etc, etc

The Arab Palestinians start out with the basic, but an explicit threat: 

*◈*   “ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE IS DETERMINED PERSIST IN REJECTION PARTITION AND IN REFUSAL RECOGNIZE UNO RESOLUTION THIS RESPECT AND ANYTHING DERIVING THEREFROM. FOR THESE REASONS IT IS UNABLE ACCEPT INVITATION”

*◈*   The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.

*◈*   The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.

*◈*   The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.​
The Arab Palestinians cannot claim "self-defense" because they never intended to comply with the Article 16 _(Treaty of Lausanne)_ Authority or the approved UN Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) Recommendation (to be known as A/RES/181).  In every dispute, the Arab Palestinians apply violence as the first solution.

*◈*   Article 9 - PLO Charter: Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.

*◈*   Article 13 • HAMAS Covenant: There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.​
Whether you call it "Armed Struggle" or "Jihad" makes no difference.  The Arab Palestinians always select conflict as the preferred solution to disputes, as opposed to the application of the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Love of the Land: The First Lesson to Learn From the 700 Rockets Fired at Israel - by Moshe Phillips


----------



## P F Tinmore

Slyhunter said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.
> 
> 
> 
> No, they shoot mobs of people trying to penetrate the border, roll burning tires, fly burning kites, and launch rockets.
Click to expand...

There is no border there. It is only Israel's cage around Gaza.

You need to update your propaganda.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.
> 
> 
> 
> No, they shoot mobs of people trying to penetrate the border, roll burning tires, fly burning kites, and launch rockets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no border there. It is only Israel's cage around Gaza.
> 
> You need to update your propaganda.
Click to expand...


That’s another of your usual cut and paste slogans.

You need to update your slogans.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.
> 
> 
> 
> No, they shoot mobs of people trying to penetrate the border, roll burning tires, fly burning kites, and launch rockets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no border there. It is only Israel's cage around Gaza.
> 
> You need to update your propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s another of your usual cut and paste slogans.
> 
> You need to update your slogans.
Click to expand...

It's true. Look it up.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.
> 
> 
> 
> No, they shoot mobs of people trying to penetrate the border, roll burning tires, fly burning kites, and launch rockets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no border there. It is only Israel's cage around Gaza.
> 
> You need to update your propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s another of your usual cut and paste slogans.
> 
> You need to update your slogans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's true. Look it up.
Click to expand...


Indeed, another of your cut and paste slogans.

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> 1947 → 1949: Israeli War of Independence Arab League Attacks (Not Israel)


Independent from what?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> 1947 → 1949: Israeli War of Independence Arab League Attacks (Not Israel)
> 1956 → → → Sinai War Freedom of Navigation for Israel in the Gulf of Aqaba
> 1967 → → → Six Day War Egypt expels the UN Emergency Force and rushes 100,000 troops and 900 tanks into the Sinai (Eminent Attack)
> 1973 → → → Yom Kipper War Arab League Surprise Attack on Israel
> etc, etc, etc


Had nothing to do with the Palestinians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> *◈* The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.


What authority does the UN have to divide country?

Link to article in the UN Charter?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1947 → 1949: Israeli War of Independence Arab League Attacks (Not Israel)
> 
> 
> 
> Independent from what?
Click to expand...


To achieve an independent nation. Statehood. The Jewish people established a cohesive, representative nation of laws, a parliamentary system of government and a working civil society.

You know, what Arabs-Moslems have failed to do.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *◈* The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
> 
> 
> 
> What authority does the UN have to divide country?
> 
> Link to article in the UN Charter?
Click to expand...


There was no country divided. 

Link to what country was divided.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> *◈* The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.


The Palestinians can defend themselves from aggression.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1947 → 1949: Israeli War of Independence Arab League Attacks (Not Israel)
> 
> 
> 
> Independent from what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To achieve an independent nation. Statehood. The Jewish people established a cohesive, representative nation of laws, a parliamentary system of government and a working civil society.
> 
> You know, what Arabs-Moslems have failed to do.
Click to expand...

You ducked my question.


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *◈* The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians can defend themselves from aggression.
Click to expand...

So they’re *not* so helpless.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1947 → 1949: Israeli War of Independence Arab League Attacks (Not Israel)
> 
> 
> 
> Independent from what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To achieve an independent nation. Statehood. The Jewish people established a cohesive, representative nation of laws, a parliamentary system of government and a working civil society.
> 
> You know, what Arabs-Moslems have failed to do.
Click to expand...

Let us remember that there would have been NO War......of Independence, but simply an Independence Declaration, if it had not been to the newly formed Arab League, which chose to exist ONLY with Jews wanting to be sovereign over their own homeland.
None of these Arabs cared to declare Independence from the Ottoman Empire for about 700 years.  As long as it is in Muslim hands.....that is ok.

It is about, still, Muslim CONQUERED land, remaining in Muslim hands.  So much for them losing Spain, Vienna, and all the other places which are not in the hands of Muslims......for now......as they are trying a different method now.....

Which is why the leaders do not care how many Arabs, etc, die in the attempt to destroy Israel, since it is neither Arab, nor Islamic.

Keep up the "protests" at the border.  Keep letting all of those innocent Arabs, by the mere fact that they were born into being Arabs and Muslim, and had no choice in it, let them "sacrifice" themselves for "Allah" and the need to "conquer" the whole world.

They fail, and they fail, and they fail.  And the Arabs born into Gaza and PA families pay the price.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The Arab Palestinians always select conflict as the preferred solution to disputes,


Palestinians attempting to return to their homes (that they have every right to do) are shot by Israel.

It is Israel that has selected conflict.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1947 → 1949: Israeli War of Independence Arab League Attacks (Not Israel)
> 
> 
> 
> Independent from what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To achieve an independent nation. Statehood. The Jewish people established a cohesive, representative nation of laws, a parliamentary system of government and a working civil society.
> 
> You know, what Arabs-Moslems have failed to do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let us remember that there would have been NO War......of Independence, but simply an Independence Declaration, if it had not been to the newly formed Arab League, which chose to exist ONLY with Jews wanting to be sovereign over their own homeland.
> None of these Arabs cared to declare Independence from the Ottoman Empire for about 700 years.  As long as it is in Muslim hands.....that is ok.
> 
> It is about, still, Muslim CONQUERED land, remaining in Muslim hands.  So much for them losing Spain, Vienna, and all the other places which are not in the hands of Muslims......for now......as they are trying a different method now.....
> 
> Which is why the leaders do not care how many Arabs, etc, die in the attempt to destroy Israel, since it is neither Arab, nor Islamic.
> 
> Keep up the "protests" at the border.  Keep letting all of those innocent Arabs, by the mere fact that they were born into being Arabs and Muslim, and had no choice in it, let them "sacrifice" themselves for "Allah" and the need to "conquer" the whole world.
> 
> They fail, and they fail, and they fail.  And the Arabs born into Gaza and PA families pay the price.
Click to expand...

WOW, that is quite a duck.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1947 → 1949: Israeli War of Independence Arab League Attacks (Not Israel)
> 
> 
> 
> Independent from what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To achieve an independent nation. Statehood. The Jewish people established a cohesive, representative nation of laws, a parliamentary system of government and a working civil society.
> 
> You know, what Arabs-Moslems have failed to do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You ducked my question.
Click to expand...


You didn't like the answer.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1947 → 1949: Israeli War of Independence Arab League Attacks (Not Israel)
> 
> 
> 
> Independent from what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To achieve an independent nation. Statehood. The Jewish people established a cohesive, representative nation of laws, a parliamentary system of government and a working civil society.
> 
> You know, what Arabs-Moslems have failed to do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let us remember that there would have been NO War......of Independence, but simply an Independence Declaration, if it had not been to the newly formed Arab League, which chose to exist ONLY with Jews wanting to be sovereign over their own homeland.
> None of these Arabs cared to declare Independence from the Ottoman Empire for about 700 years.  As long as it is in Muslim hands.....that is ok.
> 
> It is about, still, Muslim CONQUERED land, remaining in Muslim hands.  So much for them losing Spain, Vienna, and all the other places which are not in the hands of Muslims......for now......as they are trying a different method now.....
> 
> Which is why the leaders do not care how many Arabs, etc, die in the attempt to destroy Israel, since it is neither Arab, nor Islamic.
> 
> Keep up the "protests" at the border.  Keep letting all of those innocent Arabs, by the mere fact that they were born into being Arabs and Muslim, and had no choice in it, let them "sacrifice" themselves for "Allah" and the need to "conquer" the whole world.
> 
> They fail, and they fail, and they fail.  And the Arabs born into Gaza and PA families pay the price.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WOW, that is quite a duck.
Click to expand...


You couldn't find a YouTube video to cut and paste, right?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians always select conflict as the preferred solution to disputes,
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians attempting to return to their homes (that they have every right to do) are shot by Israel.
> 
> It is Israel that has selected conflict.
Click to expand...


That's strange. The Hamas charter and the border gee-had are all about islamic entitlement and ripping the hearts out of Jews


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1947 → 1949: Israeli War of Independence Arab League Attacks (Not Israel)
> 
> 
> 
> Independent from what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To achieve an independent nation. Statehood. The Jewish people established a cohesive, representative nation of laws, a parliamentary system of government and a working civil society.
> 
> You know, what Arabs-Moslems have failed to do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let us remember that there would have been NO War......of Independence, but simply an Independence Declaration, if it had not been to the newly formed Arab League, which chose to exist ONLY with Jews wanting to be sovereign over their own homeland.
> None of these Arabs cared to declare Independence from the Ottoman Empire for about 700 years.  As long as it is in Muslim hands.....that is ok.
> 
> It is about, still, Muslim CONQUERED land, remaining in Muslim hands.  So much for them losing Spain, Vienna, and all the other places which are not in the hands of Muslims......for now......as they are trying a different method now.....
> 
> Which is why the leaders do not care how many Arabs, etc, die in the attempt to destroy Israel, since it is neither Arab, nor Islamic.
> 
> Keep up the "protests" at the border.  Keep letting all of those innocent Arabs, by the mere fact that they were born into being Arabs and Muslim, and had no choice in it, let them "sacrifice" themselves for "Allah" and the need to "conquer" the whole world.
> 
> They fail, and they fail, and they fail.  And the Arabs born into Gaza and PA families pay the price.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WOW, that is quite a duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You couldn't find a YouTube video to cut and paste, right?
Click to expand...


He misplaced the one where Hasidic Jews wish for Israel’s destruction


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *◈* The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
> 
> 
> 
> What authority does the UN have to divide country?
> 
> Link to article in the UN Charter?
Click to expand...


The UN has none. But the principle of self-determination is the world standard and backed by international law. 

What authority does anyone have to prevent self-determination?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, this is a skewed question...  In order to be an objective question, it would question by what means.  



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1947 → 1949: Israeli War of Independence Arab League Attacks (Not Israel)
> 
> 
> 
> Independent from what?
Click to expand...

*(ANSWER)*

You could say from an unbiased vantage point that on terminator (midnight) 14/15 May 1948 Israel was released from League of Nations mandate under British administration, and by right of self-determination, declared independence as through the Freedom of the Jewish People of a given area as defined in UN Resolution A/RES/181 (II) 29 NOV 1947, to establish a sovereign Jewish National Home.  This action subsequently acknowledges through the Admission of Israel to membership in the UN Resolution A/RES/273 (III) of 11 May 1949. 

Now I understand that the Arab Palestinians in denial refuse to accept the authority of the Jewish Right to Self-Determination.  I also understand that some "Flat-Earth type" Arab Palestinians refuse to recognize the validity of The Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate, and everything that has been based on the decisions of the San Remo Convention of 1920; as well as A/RES/181(II).   

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, this is a skewed question...  In order to be an objective question, it would question by what means.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1947 → 1949: Israeli War of Independence Arab League Attacks (Not Israel)
> 
> 
> 
> Independent from what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> You could say from an unbiased vantage point that on terminator (midnight) 14/15 May 1948 Israel was released from League of Nations mandate under British administration, and by right of self-determination, declared independence as through the Freedom of the Jewish People of a given area as defined in UN Resolution A/RES/181 (II) 29 NOV 1947, to establish a sovereign Jewish National Home.  This action subsequently acknowledges through the Admission of Israel to membership in the UN Resolution A/RES/273 (III) of 11 May 1949.
> 
> Now I understand that the Arab Palestinians in denial refuse to accept the authority of the Jewish Right to Self-Determination.  I also understand that some "Flat-Earth type" Arab Palestinians refuse to recognize the validity of The Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate, and everything that has been based on the decisions of the San Remo Convention of 1920; as well as A/RES/181(II).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Arab Palestinians refuse to recognize the validity of The Balfour Declaration,


Where did Britain get the authority to giveaway what was not theirs?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians always select conflict as the preferred solution to disputes,
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians attempting to return to their homes (that they have every right to do) are shot by Israel.
Click to expand...


No such right exists. The laws around return concern return to a country of origin and even then is not given as an absolute right but only as one possible outcome. None of these laws pass this "return" down to through generations of descendants. The idea of a generational absolute right to return to a homeland is a fiction devised by Arab Palestinians to root out Jews in Israel and prevent or destroy their self-determination. The irony is that this fictional generational "right" of return serves the Jewish people and their right to settlement far better than it serves the Arabs.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, this is a skewed question...  In order to be an objective question, it would question by what means.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1947 → 1949: Israeli War of Independence Arab League Attacks (Not Israel)
> 
> 
> 
> Independent from what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> You could say from an unbiased vantage point that on terminator (midnight) 14/15 May 1948 Israel was released from League of Nations mandate under British administration, and by right of self-determination, declared independence as through the Freedom of the Jewish People of a given area as defined in UN Resolution A/RES/181 (II) 29 NOV 1947, to establish a sovereign Jewish National Home.  This action subsequently acknowledges through the Admission of Israel to membership in the UN Resolution A/RES/273 (III) of 11 May 1949.
> 
> Now I understand that the Arab Palestinians in denial refuse to accept the authority of the Jewish Right to Self-Determination.  I also understand that some "Flat-Earth type" Arab Palestinians refuse to recognize the validity of The Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate, and everything that has been based on the decisions of the San Remo Convention of 1920; as well as A/RES/181(II).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab Palestinians refuse to recognize the validity of The Balfour Declaration,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where did Britain get the authority to giveaway what was not theirs?
Click to expand...



They didn't give anything away. They merely recognized the Jewish people's existing rights.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *◈* The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians can defend themselves from aggression.
Click to expand...


Now, with Iranian money, they can attack Israel and "martyr" themselves for the glory of the Shia mullahs.


----------



## wasrose

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, this is a skewed question...  In order to be an objective question, it would question by what means.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1947 → 1949: Israeli War of Independence Arab League Attacks (Not Israel)
> 
> 
> 
> Independent from what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> You could say from an unbiased vantage point that on terminator (midnight) 14/15 May 1948 Israel was released from League of Nations mandate under British administration, and by right of self-determination, declared independence as through the Freedom of the Jewish People of a given area as defined in UN Resolution A/RES/181 (II) 29 NOV 1947, to establish a sovereign Jewish National Home.  This action subsequently acknowledges through the Admission of Israel to membership in the UN Resolution A/RES/273 (III) of 11 May 1949.
> 
> Now I understand that the Arab Palestinians in denial refuse to accept the authority of the Jewish Right to Self-Determination.  I also understand that some "Flat-Earth type" Arab Palestinians refuse to recognize the validity of The Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate, and everything that has been based on the decisions of the San Remo Convention of 1920; as well as A/RES/181(II).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab Palestinians refuse to recognize the validity of The Balfour Declaration,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where did Britain get the authority to giveaway what was not theirs?
Click to expand...


what did Britain  "GIVE AWAY" -----other than Indian land up north----to wit  PAKISTAN?


----------



## wasrose

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *◈* The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
> 
> 
> 
> What authority does the UN have to divide country?
> 
> Link to article in the UN Charter?
Click to expand...


what country did the UN  "divide"?     (other than several)  ?


----------



## wasrose

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *◈* The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians can defend themselves from aggression.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now, with Iranian money, they can attack Israel and "martyr" themselves for the glory of the Shia mullahs.
Click to expand...


who are the  "PALESTINIANS"?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, this is the "explicit" authority of the Allied Powers to determine "the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned."  It is not ambiguous and conformed to the Customary and International Law enforce at that time _(and for the next quarter century)_.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab Palestinians refuse to recognize the validity of The Balfour Declaration,
> 
> 
> 
> Where did Britain get the authority to giveaway what was not theirs?
Click to expand...

*(ANSWER)*



			
				SECTION I • TERRITORIAL CLAUSES • TREATY OF LAUSANNE said:
			
		

> *•  ARTICLE 16  •*
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognized by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighborly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.
> [/quote=""]




*(COUNTER-QUESTION)*

And just where does the Hostile Arab Palestinian derive the authority to make credible threats and THEN use force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the newly formed State of Israel_???_

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## wasrose

P F Tinmore said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.
> 
> 
> 
> No, they shoot mobs of people trying to penetrate the border, roll burning tires, fly burning kites, and launch rockets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no border there. It is only Israel's cage around Gaza.
> 
> You need to update your propaganda.
Click to expand...


no border?      nowhere?      "cage"  ------who tends the cage around the gaza strip on its west side?     Of what is the  "CAGE"  constructed?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, this is the "explicit" authority of the Allied Powers to determine "the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned."  It is not ambiguous and conformed to the Customary and International Law enforce at that time _(and for the next quarter century)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab Palestinians refuse to recognize the validity of The Balfour Declaration,
> 
> 
> 
> Where did Britain get the authority to giveaway what was not theirs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SECTION I • TERRITORIAL CLAUSES • TREATY OF LAUSANNE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *•  ARTICLE 16  •*
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognized by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighborly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.
> [/quote=""]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COUNTER-QUESTION)*
> 
> And just where does the Hostile Arab Palestinian derive the authority to make credible threats and THEN use force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the newly formed State of Israel_???_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Where was Israel's territory?

Got a map?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you missed my question*! *



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(COUNTER-QUESTION)*
> 
> And just where does the Hostile Arab Palestinian derive the authority to make credible threats and THEN use force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the newly formed State of Israel_???_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Where was Israel's territory?
> 
> Got a map?
Click to expand...

*(ANSWER)*

At Midnight 14/15 May 1948, at the initial declaration of Independence, the official territory conformed to that annotated in:


*Annex A*

*Plan of Partition with Economic Union*
*Annex B*

*City of Jerusalem*
*Boundaries Proposed By The Ad Hoc Committee On The Palestinian Question*
* *** *​ However that all change immediately upon the observation of movement towards that boundary.  Israel redeployed forward to defendable positions to meet the imminent attack, by Arab League Forces. which came in the daylight hours of 15 May.

At the conclusion of hostilities in 1949, by Armistice Arrangement through the efforts of the UN Mediator by Dr. Ralph Bunche.  Dr Bunche became a 1950 Nobel Peace Prize Laureate for his efforts.  The Armistice Lines represented the Forward Edge of the Battle Areas.  

More permanent arrangements have been established since that time, with the parties to the conflict; which did not include the Hostile Arab Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Slyhunter

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, this is the "explicit" authority of the Allied Powers to determine "the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned."  It is not ambiguous and conformed to the Customary and International Law enforce at that time _(and for the next quarter century)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab Palestinians refuse to recognize the validity of The Balfour Declaration,
> 
> 
> 
> Where did Britain get the authority to giveaway what was not theirs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SECTION I • TERRITORIAL CLAUSES • TREATY OF LAUSANNE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *•  ARTICLE 16  •*
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognized by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighborly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.
> [/quote=""]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COUNTER-QUESTION)*
> 
> And just where does the Hostile Arab Palestinian derive the authority to make credible threats and THEN use force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the newly formed State of Israel_???_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where was Israel's territory?
> 
> Got a map?
Click to expand...


----------



## Sixties Fan

UK Media Watch prompts Guardian to admit that Palestinians triggered latest conflict


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→ Sixties Fan, et al,

Yes, I happen to agree(+).



Sixties Fan said:


> UK Media Watch prompts Guardian to admit that Palestinians triggered latest conflict


*(COMMENT)*

But I find that the Guardian always works in favor of itself. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think you missed my question*! *
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(COUNTER-QUESTION)*
> 
> And just where does the Hostile Arab Palestinian derive the authority to make credible threats and THEN use force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the newly formed State of Israel_???_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Where was Israel's territory?
> 
> Got a map?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> At Midnight 14/15 May 1948, at the initial declaration of Independence, the official territory conformed to that annotated in:
> 
> 
> *Annex A*
> 
> *Plan of Partition with Economic Union*
> *Annex B*
> 
> *City of Jerusalem*
> *Boundaries Proposed By The Ad Hoc Committee On The Palestinian Question*
> * *** *​However that all change immediately upon the observation of movement towards that boundary.  Israel redeployed forward to defendable positions to meet the imminent attack, by Arab League Forces. which came in the daylight hours of 15 May.
> 
> At the conclusion of hostilities in 1949, by Armistice Arrangement through the efforts of the UN Mediator by Dr. Ralph Bunche.  Dr Bunche became a 1950 Nobel Peace Prize Laureate for his efforts.  The Armistice Lines represented the Forward Edge of the Battle Areas.
> 
> More permanent arrangements have been established since that time, with the parties to the conflict; which did not include the Hostile Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You keep bringing up Resolution 181 like it means something. Israel also mentioned Resolution 181 in its declaration of independence. Even in fake history it is said that Israel acquired territory beyond that what was allotted in Resolution 181.

However, there was no Resolution 181. There was no territory allotted to a Jewish state. There was no legitimacy given to a Jewish state. Resolution 181 was not implemented by the Security Council as required by the resolution.

So my question remains unanswered. You ducked it again.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think you missed my question*! *
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(COUNTER-QUESTION)*
> 
> And just where does the Hostile Arab Palestinian derive the authority to make credible threats and THEN use force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the newly formed State of Israel_???_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Where was Israel's territory?
> 
> Got a map?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> At Midnight 14/15 May 1948, at the initial declaration of Independence, the official territory conformed to that annotated in:
> 
> 
> *Annex A*
> 
> *Plan of Partition with Economic Union*
> *Annex B*
> 
> *City of Jerusalem*
> *Boundaries Proposed By The Ad Hoc Committee On The Palestinian Question*
> * *** *​However that all change immediately upon the observation of movement towards that boundary.  Israel redeployed forward to defendable positions to meet the imminent attack, by Arab League Forces. which came in the daylight hours of 15 May.
> 
> At the conclusion of hostilities in 1949, by Armistice Arrangement through the efforts of the UN Mediator by Dr. Ralph Bunche.  Dr Bunche became a 1950 Nobel Peace Prize Laureate for his efforts.  The Armistice Lines represented the Forward Edge of the Battle Areas.
> 
> More permanent arrangements have been established since that time, with the parties to the conflict; which did not include the Hostile Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep bringing up Resolution 181 like it means something. Israel also mentioned Resolution 181 in its declaration of independence. Even in fake history it is said that Israel acquired territory beyond that what was allotted in Resolution 181.
> 
> However, there was no Resolution 181. There was no territory allotted to a Jewish state. There was no legitimacy given to a Jewish state. Resolution 181 was not implemented by the Security Council as required by the resolution.
> 
> So my question remains unanswered. You ducked it again.
Click to expand...


No territory acquired by Israel is beyond the border of the territory vested with the sovereignty of the Jewish Nation.

Resolution 181 was the first time an *Arab state *was suggested on the west bank of the territory that was alloted to the Jewish Nation under international law, not the other way around.
With or without the resolution Jews had all the legal claim to independence in that territory, Arabs still don't, and that's the grasp at 181 as a bluff pretending it gives them any right to dominate any more territory beyond the 99% given to them in the middle east.

Was not implemented, was denied by the Arab league, therefore* no territory was EVER legally alloted to an Arab state.*

While You keep obsessively trying to turn every fact on its head , the territory alloted to the Jewish Nation is recognized even by the_"Palestinian Academic Society for The Study of International Affairs"_ website:





PASSIA - MAPS - Palestine - PALESTINE UNDER THE BRITISH MANDATE


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think you missed my question*! *
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(COUNTER-QUESTION)*
> 
> And just where does the Hostile Arab Palestinian derive the authority to make credible threats and THEN use force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the newly formed State of Israel_???_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Where was Israel's territory?
> 
> Got a map?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> At Midnight 14/15 May 1948, at the initial declaration of Independence, the official territory conformed to that annotated in:
> 
> 
> *Annex A*
> 
> *Plan of Partition with Economic Union*
> *Annex B*
> 
> *City of Jerusalem*
> *Boundaries Proposed By The Ad Hoc Committee On The Palestinian Question*
> * *** *​However that all change immediately upon the observation of movement towards that boundary.  Israel redeployed forward to defendable positions to meet the imminent attack, by Arab League Forces. which came in the daylight hours of 15 May.
> 
> At the conclusion of hostilities in 1949, by Armistice Arrangement through the efforts of the UN Mediator by Dr. Ralph Bunche.  Dr Bunche became a 1950 Nobel Peace Prize Laureate for his efforts.  The Armistice Lines represented the Forward Edge of the Battle Areas.
> 
> More permanent arrangements have been established since that time, with the parties to the conflict; which did not include the Hostile Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep bringing up Resolution 181 like it means something. Israel also mentioned Resolution 181 in its declaration of independence. Even in fake history it is said that Israel acquired territory beyond that what was allotted in Resolution 181.
> 
> However, there was no Resolution 181. There was no territory allotted to a Jewish state. There was no legitimacy given to a Jewish state. Resolution 181 was not implemented by the Security Council as required by the resolution.
> 
> So my question remains unanswered. You ducked it again.
Click to expand...


What is it exactly you’re still whining about? This is another of the many historical references that has been explained to you again and again yet you whine through thread after thread with the same shrill whining, whining about Arab-Moslem failure and incompetence as though your whining should be taken as anything other than whining.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think you missed my question*! *
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(COUNTER-QUESTION)*
> 
> And just where does the Hostile Arab Palestinian derive the authority to make credible threats and THEN use force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the newly formed State of Israel_???_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Where was Israel's territory?
> 
> Got a map?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> At Midnight 14/15 May 1948, at the initial declaration of Independence, the official territory conformed to that annotated in:
> 
> 
> *Annex A*
> 
> *Plan of Partition with Economic Union*
> *Annex B*
> 
> *City of Jerusalem*
> *Boundaries Proposed By The Ad Hoc Committee On The Palestinian Question*
> * *** *​However that all change immediately upon the observation of movement towards that boundary.  Israel redeployed forward to defendable positions to meet the imminent attack, by Arab League Forces. which came in the daylight hours of 15 May.
> 
> At the conclusion of hostilities in 1949, by Armistice Arrangement through the efforts of the UN Mediator by Dr. Ralph Bunche.  Dr Bunche became a 1950 Nobel Peace Prize Laureate for his efforts.  The Armistice Lines represented the Forward Edge of the Battle Areas.
> 
> More permanent arrangements have been established since that time, with the parties to the conflict; which did not include the Hostile Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep bringing up Resolution 181 like it means something. Israel also mentioned Resolution 181 in its declaration of independence. Even in fake history it is said that Israel acquired territory beyond that what was allotted in Resolution 181.
> 
> However, there was no Resolution 181. There was no territory allotted to a Jewish state. There was no legitimacy given to a Jewish state. Resolution 181 was not implemented by the Security Council as required by the resolution.
> 
> So my question remains unanswered. You ducked it again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No territory acquired by Israel is beyond the border of the territory vested with the sovereignty of the Jewish Nation.
> 
> Resolution 181 was the first time an *Arab state *was suggested on the west bank of the territory that was alloted to the Jewish Nation under international law, not the other way around.
> With or without the resolution Jews had all the legal claim to independence in that territory, Arabs still don't, and that's the grasp at 181 as a bluff pretending it gives them any right to dominate any more territory beyond the 99% given to them in the middle east.
> 
> Was not implemented, was denied by the Arab league, therefore* no territory was EVER legally alloted to an Arab state.*
> 
> While You keep obsessively trying to turn every fact on its head , the territory alloted to the Jewish Nation is recognized even by the_"Palestinian Academic Society for The Study of International Affairs"_ website:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PASSIA - MAPS - Palestine - PALESTINE UNDER THE BRITISH MANDATE
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> Was not implemented, was denied by the Arab league, therefore* no territory was EVER legally alloted to an Arab state.*


Palestine was already there. It was multi ethnic, multi religious state. The "Arab" state and "Jewish" state were products of the partition that didn't happen. So yeah, there was no "Arab" state.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think you missed my question*! *
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(COUNTER-QUESTION)*
> 
> And just where does the Hostile Arab Palestinian derive the authority to make credible threats and THEN use force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the newly formed State of Israel_???_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Where was Israel's territory?
> 
> Got a map?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> At Midnight 14/15 May 1948, at the initial declaration of Independence, the official territory conformed to that annotated in:
> 
> 
> *Annex A*
> 
> *Plan of Partition with Economic Union*
> *Annex B*
> 
> *City of Jerusalem*
> *Boundaries Proposed By The Ad Hoc Committee On The Palestinian Question*
> * *** *​However that all change immediately upon the observation of movement towards that boundary.  Israel redeployed forward to defendable positions to meet the imminent attack, by Arab League Forces. which came in the daylight hours of 15 May.
> 
> At the conclusion of hostilities in 1949, by Armistice Arrangement through the efforts of the UN Mediator by Dr. Ralph Bunche.  Dr Bunche became a 1950 Nobel Peace Prize Laureate for his efforts.  The Armistice Lines represented the Forward Edge of the Battle Areas.
> 
> More permanent arrangements have been established since that time, with the parties to the conflict; which did not include the Hostile Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep bringing up Resolution 181 like it means something. Israel also mentioned Resolution 181 in its declaration of independence. Even in fake history it is said that Israel acquired territory beyond that what was allotted in Resolution 181.
> 
> However, there was no Resolution 181. There was no territory allotted to a Jewish state. There was no legitimacy given to a Jewish state. Resolution 181 was not implemented by the Security Council as required by the resolution.
> 
> So my question remains unanswered. You ducked it again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No territory acquired by Israel is beyond the border of the territory vested with the sovereignty of the Jewish Nation.
> 
> Resolution 181 was the first time an *Arab state *was suggested on the west bank of the territory that was alloted to the Jewish Nation under international law, not the other way around.
> With or without the resolution Jews had all the legal claim to independence in that territory, Arabs still don't, and that's the grasp at 181 as a bluff pretending it gives them any right to dominate any more territory beyond the 99% given to them in the middle east.
> 
> Was not implemented, was denied by the Arab league, therefore* no territory was EVER legally alloted to an Arab state.*
> 
> While You keep obsessively trying to turn every fact on its head , the territory alloted to the Jewish Nation is recognized even by the_"Palestinian Academic Society for The Study of International Affairs"_ website:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PASSIA - MAPS - Palestine - PALESTINE UNDER THE BRITISH MANDATE
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was not implemented, was denied by the Arab league, therefore* no territory was EVER legally alloted to an Arab state.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was already there. It was multi ethnic, multi religious state. The "Arab" state and "Jewish" state were products of the partition that didn't happen. So yeah, there was no "Arab" state.
Click to expand...







77% of the land intended for the Jewish Nation was partitioned for the Hashemite Kingdom, 
an Arab state that bans all Jews by law. 

Partition indeed happened, You just obsess, at the expense of all involved, about chipping away at the little left for Jews.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think you missed my question*! *
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(COUNTER-QUESTION)*
> 
> And just where does the Hostile Arab Palestinian derive the authority to make credible threats and THEN use force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the newly formed State of Israel_???_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Where was Israel's territory?
> 
> Got a map?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> At Midnight 14/15 May 1948, at the initial declaration of Independence, the official territory conformed to that annotated in:
> 
> 
> *Annex A*
> 
> *Plan of Partition with Economic Union*
> *Annex B*
> 
> *City of Jerusalem*
> *Boundaries Proposed By The Ad Hoc Committee On The Palestinian Question*
> * *** *​However that all change immediately upon the observation of movement towards that boundary.  Israel redeployed forward to defendable positions to meet the imminent attack, by Arab League Forces. which came in the daylight hours of 15 May.
> 
> At the conclusion of hostilities in 1949, by Armistice Arrangement through the efforts of the UN Mediator by Dr. Ralph Bunche.  Dr Bunche became a 1950 Nobel Peace Prize Laureate for his efforts.  The Armistice Lines represented the Forward Edge of the Battle Areas.
> 
> More permanent arrangements have been established since that time, with the parties to the conflict; which did not include the Hostile Arab Palestinians.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep bringing up Resolution 181 like it means something. Israel also mentioned Resolution 181 in its declaration of independence. Even in fake history it is said that Israel acquired territory beyond that what was allotted in Resolution 181.
> 
> However, there was no Resolution 181. There was no territory allotted to a Jewish state. There was no legitimacy given to a Jewish state. Resolution 181 was not implemented by the Security Council as required by the resolution.
> 
> So my question remains unanswered. You ducked it again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No territory acquired by Israel is beyond the border of the territory vested with the sovereignty of the Jewish Nation.
> 
> Resolution 181 was the first time an *Arab state *was suggested on the west bank of the territory that was alloted to the Jewish Nation under international law, not the other way around.
> With or without the resolution Jews had all the legal claim to independence in that territory, Arabs still don't, and that's the grasp at 181 as a bluff pretending it gives them any right to dominate any more territory beyond the 99% given to them in the middle east.
> 
> Was not implemented, was denied by the Arab league, therefore* no territory was EVER legally alloted to an Arab state.*
> 
> While You keep obsessively trying to turn every fact on its head , the territory alloted to the Jewish Nation is recognized even by the_"Palestinian Academic Society for The Study of International Affairs"_ website:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PASSIA - MAPS - Palestine - PALESTINE UNDER THE BRITISH MANDATE
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was not implemented, was denied by the Arab league, therefore* no territory was EVER legally alloted to an Arab state.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was already there. It was multi ethnic, multi religious state. The "Arab" state and "Jewish" state were products of the partition that didn't happen. So yeah, there was no "Arab" state.
Click to expand...


Oh, my. Here you are again claiming the existence of something you invented as the "State" of Pal'istan. This was the state you insist was created by the Treaty of Lausanne, right?


----------



## Sixties Fan

If Israel shot at a group of civilians, how can it be that the only people killed are terrorists?

 At approximately 14:45, Israeli warplanes launched a missile at a car driven by Hamed Ahmed Abdul Khudari (34), from al-Tuffah neighborhood, east of Gaza City. The targeting was in the vicinity of al-Sedrah area in the abovementioned neighborhood. As a result, al-Khudari , who works in Currency Exchange, was killed.Here is that currency trader, who also happened to be a field commander for the Al Qassam Brigades and had a terrorist since 2003.





Also, Hamas had an event to celebrate the deaths of two of its members the previous Friday, which included these disturbing photos showing what is presumably one of their sons in full terrorist gear.

(full article online)

More on the "civilians" killed last weekend ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh → come now.   The question keeps reverberating → trying to suggest that the UN had no authority facilitate the disposition of the territory formerly under Mandate.  Well, reality is a consequence of several independent actions.  *None of these actions taken or decisions* made _(from 1939 to 1948)_ can be contested by the Arab Palestinian since there was no sovereign entity _(a state)_ that was consulted → or for that matter → even existed.  They were not even considered a party to any Armistice or Treaty conceived and executed between the Actual Parties to the conflict.



P F Tinmore said:


> You keep bringing up Resolution 181 like it means something. Israel also mentioned Resolution 181 in its declaration of independence. Even in fake history it is said that Israel acquired territory beyond that what was allotted in Resolution 181.
> 
> However, there was no Resolution 181. There was no territory allotted to a Jewish state. There was no legitimacy given to a Jewish state. Resolution 181 was not implemented by the Security Council as required by the resolution.
> 
> So my question remains unanswered. You ducked it again.



So say we all_*!*_


			
				Palestine Declaration of Independence said:
			
		

> •  A/43/827-S/20278 of 18 November 1988 •
> Despite the historical injustice done to the Palestinian Arab people in its displacement and in being deprived of the right to self-determination following the adoption of General Assembly resolution 181 (II) of 1947, which partitioned Palestine into an Arab and a Jewish State, that resolution nevertheless continues to attach conditions to international legitimacy that guarantee the Palestinian Arab people the right to sovereignty and national independence.
> 
> SOURCE:  *Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole, legitimate representative of the Palestinian people*, as recognized by the international community and represented in the United Nations...




*(COMMENT)*

You can be in denial all you want.  The fact of the matter is the PLO have spoken.  GAME OVER



P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine was already there. It was multi ethnic, multi religious state. The "Arab" state and "Jewish" state were products of the partition that didn't happen. So yeah, there was no "Arab" state.


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinian State DID NOT come about simply because the Arab Palestinians rejected any attempt to bring them into the commercial, industrial, economic development of a self-sustaining environment …¬



P F Tinmore said:


> So my question remains unanswered. You ducked it again.


*(COMMENT)*

Asked and answered.
​


P F Tinmore said:


> Where was Israel's territory?
> Got a map?


At the end of the day → and when the smoke cleared → it is what it is...

The Arab Palestinians realize that they want, what they perceive, as that which the Israeli have.   They have decided to use force to get it.

*Today's Territories*


​Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine was already there. It was multi ethnic, multi religious state. The "Arab" state and "Jewish" state were products of the partition that didn't happen. So yeah, there was no "Arab" state.



The remaining territory of Palestine (after carving off the Hashemite Kingdom) was to become the Jewish National Home for the Jewish people as a re-constitution of their Nation based on existing historical rights with settlement upon the land by the Jewish people and led by a Jewish government.  

An additional Arab state was not mentioned.  But a Jewish State certainly was.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh → come now.   The question keeps reverberating → trying to suggest that the UN had no authority facilitate the disposition of the territory formerly under Mandate.  Well, reality is a consequence of several independent actions.  *None of these actions taken or decisions* made _(from 1939 to 1948)_ can be contested by the Arab Palestinian since there was no sovereign entity _(a state)_ that was consulted → or for that matter → even existed.  They were not even considered a party to any Armistice or Treaty conceived and executed between the Actual Parties to the conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep bringing up Resolution 181 like it means something. Israel also mentioned Resolution 181 in its declaration of independence. Even in fake history it is said that Israel acquired territory beyond that what was allotted in Resolution 181.
> 
> However, there was no Resolution 181. There was no territory allotted to a Jewish state. There was no legitimacy given to a Jewish state. Resolution 181 was not implemented by the Security Council as required by the resolution.
> 
> So my question remains unanswered. You ducked it again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So say we all_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Declaration of Independence said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> •  A/43/827-S/20278 of 18 November 1988 •
> Despite the historical injustice done to the Palestinian Arab people in its displacement and in being deprived of the right to self-determination following the adoption of General Assembly resolution 181 (II) of 1947, which partitioned Palestine into an Arab and a Jewish State, that resolution nevertheless continues to attach conditions to international legitimacy that guarantee the Palestinian Arab people the right to sovereignty and national independence.
> 
> SOURCE:  *Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole, legitimate representative of the Palestinian people*, as recognized by the international community and represented in the United Nations...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You can be in denial all you want.  The fact of the matter is the PLO have spoken.  GAME OVER
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was already there. It was multi ethnic, multi religious state. The "Arab" state and "Jewish" state were products of the partition that didn't happen. So yeah, there was no "Arab" state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinian State DID NOT come about simply because the Arab Palestinians rejected any attempt to bring them into the commercial, industrial, economic development of a self-sustaining environment …¬
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So my question remains unanswered. You ducked it again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Asked and answered.
> ​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where was Israel's territory?
> Got a map?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At the end of the day → and when the smoke cleared → it is what it is...
> 
> The Arab Palestinians realize that they want, what they perceive, as that which the Israeli have.   They have decided to use force to get it.
> 
> *Today's Jewish State of Israel*
> View attachment 260697​Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

So then, why armistice lines and not borders?


----------



## Hollie

Sixties Fan said:


> If Israel shot at a group of civilians, how can it be that the only people killed are terrorists?
> 
> At approximately 14:45, Israeli warplanes launched a missile at a car driven by Hamed Ahmed Abdul Khudari (34), from al-Tuffah neighborhood, east of Gaza City. The targeting was in the vicinity of al-Sedrah area in the abovementioned neighborhood. As a result, al-Khudari , who works in Currency Exchange, was killed.Here is that currency trader, who also happened to be a field commander for the Al Qassam Brigades and had a terrorist since 2003.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, Hamas had an event to celebrate the deaths of two of its members the previous Friday, which included these disturbing photos showing what is presumably one of their sons in full terrorist gear.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> More on the "civilians" killed last weekend ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News



I can't help but notice that the islamic terrorist "field commanders" get younger as the Israeli "Hellfire Missile Early Retirement Program" cleans out the ranks of the more excitable gee-had slugs.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh → come now.   The question keeps reverberating → trying to suggest that the UN had no authority facilitate the disposition of the territory formerly under Mandate.  Well, reality is a consequence of several independent actions.  *None of these actions taken or decisions* made _(from 1939 to 1948)_ can be contested by the Arab Palestinian since there was no sovereign entity _(a state)_ that was consulted → or for that matter → even existed.  They were not even considered a party to any Armistice or Treaty conceived and executed between the Actual Parties to the conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep bringing up Resolution 181 like it means something. Israel also mentioned Resolution 181 in its declaration of independence. Even in fake history it is said that Israel acquired territory beyond that what was allotted in Resolution 181.
> 
> However, there was no Resolution 181. There was no territory allotted to a Jewish state. There was no legitimacy given to a Jewish state. Resolution 181 was not implemented by the Security Council as required by the resolution.
> 
> So my question remains unanswered. You ducked it again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So say we all_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Declaration of Independence said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> •  A/43/827-S/20278 of 18 November 1988 •
> Despite the historical injustice done to the Palestinian Arab people in its displacement and in being deprived of the right to self-determination following the adoption of General Assembly resolution 181 (II) of 1947, which partitioned Palestine into an Arab and a Jewish State, that resolution nevertheless continues to attach conditions to international legitimacy that guarantee the Palestinian Arab people the right to sovereignty and national independence.
> 
> SOURCE:  *Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole, legitimate representative of the Palestinian people*, as recognized by the international community and represented in the United Nations...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You can be in denial all you want.  The fact of the matter is the PLO have spoken.  GAME OVER
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was already there. It was multi ethnic, multi religious state. The "Arab" state and "Jewish" state were products of the partition that didn't happen. So yeah, there was no "Arab" state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinian State DID NOT come about simply because the Arab Palestinians rejected any attempt to bring them into the commercial, industrial, economic development of a self-sustaining environment …¬
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So my question remains unanswered. You ducked it again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Asked and answered.
> ​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where was Israel's territory?
> Got a map?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At the end of the day → and when the smoke cleared → it is what it is...
> 
> The Arab Palestinians realize that they want, what they perceive, as that which the Israeli have.   They have decided to use force to get it.
> 
> *Today's Jewish State of Israel*
> View attachment 260697​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So then, why armistice lines and not borders?
Click to expand...


Addressed multiple times for you.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh → come now.   The question keeps reverberating → trying to suggest that the UN had no authority facilitate the disposition of the territory formerly under Mandate.  Well, reality is a consequence of several independent actions.  *None of these actions taken or decisions* made _(from 1939 to 1948)_ can be contested by the Arab Palestinian since there was no sovereign entity _(a state)_ that was consulted → or for that matter → even existed.  They were not even considered a party to any Armistice or Treaty conceived and executed between the Actual Parties to the conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep bringing up Resolution 181 like it means something. Israel also mentioned Resolution 181 in its declaration of independence. Even in fake history it is said that Israel acquired territory beyond that what was allotted in Resolution 181.
> 
> However, there was no Resolution 181. There was no territory allotted to a Jewish state. There was no legitimacy given to a Jewish state. Resolution 181 was not implemented by the Security Council as required by the resolution.
> 
> So my question remains unanswered. You ducked it again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So say we all_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Declaration of Independence said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> •  A/43/827-S/20278 of 18 November 1988 •
> Despite the historical injustice done to the Palestinian Arab people in its displacement and in being deprived of the right to self-determination following the adoption of General Assembly resolution 181 (II) of 1947, which partitioned Palestine into an Arab and a Jewish State, that resolution nevertheless continues to attach conditions to international legitimacy that guarantee the Palestinian Arab people the right to sovereignty and national independence.
> 
> SOURCE:  *Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole, legitimate representative of the Palestinian people*, as recognized by the international community and represented in the United Nations...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You can be in denial all you want.  The fact of the matter is the PLO have spoken.  GAME OVER
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was already there. It was multi ethnic, multi religious state. The "Arab" state and "Jewish" state were products of the partition that didn't happen. So yeah, there was no "Arab" state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinian State DID NOT come about simply because the Arab Palestinians rejected any attempt to bring them into the commercial, industrial, economic development of a self-sustaining environment …¬
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So my question remains unanswered. You ducked it again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Asked and answered.
> ​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where was Israel's territory?
> Got a map?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At the end of the day → and when the smoke cleared → it is what it is...
> 
> The Arab Palestinians realize that they want, what they perceive, as that which the Israeli have.   They have decided to use force to get it.
> 
> *Today's Jewish State of Israel*
> View attachment 260697​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So then, why armistice lines and not borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Addressed multiple times for you.
Click to expand...

Usual duck.


----------



## The Original Tree

*I laugh at Muslims who try to say they are somehow related to Abraham and then try to say God did not make The Abrahamic Covenant with Abraham and his offspring through Sarah.

These people are so full of Hate for The Jew, they are Insane.*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I grasp this; but, don't see the reason for the confusing.


			
				Encyclopedia of Arab-Israeli Conflct said:
			
		

> The Security Council resolution neither endorses nor precludes these armistice lines as the definitive political boundaries. However, it calls for withdrawal from occupied territories, the nonacquisition of territory by war, and the establishment of secure and recognized boundaries.
> 
> *Green Line*
> 
> The Green Line, so-named because it was drawn with green marker on the maps at the time, designated
> the area under Jewish control in Palestine.
> 
> The border of Israel prior to the June 1967 Six-Day War delineated as a result of the truce agreements that followed the 1948–1949 Israeli War of Independence. The Green Line, so-named because it was drawn with green marker on the maps at the time, designated the area under Jewish control in Palestine.  The Green Line encompassed about 78 percent of Palestinian territory in 1947 before the Israeli War of Independence. Although it delineated a military boundary only, in effect the Green Line actually defined the de facto state borders between Israel and Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon. The sole exception was the municipality of Jerusalem. Israel claimed as sovereign territory the parts of the city administered by Jordan until 1967.
> 
> *Drawing of the Green Line was based almost exclusively on military considerations.* As such, it wreaked havoc on a number of communities, dividing towns and villages and separating farmers from their fields. Jerusalem was especially impacted, being divided into West and East Jerusalem. The Jordanian city of Qalqilyah became virtually an enclave within Israel, while Kibbutz Ramat Rachel was left almost entirely outside of Israeli territory.





P F Tinmore said:


> So then, why armistice lines and not borders?


*(COMMENT)*

The Armistice Lines are instruments to neutralize hostile fire _(disengage contact between opposing forces) _between the belligerents.  The Armistic Lines are not intended to be establishing permanent international boundaries between states.  At the time of the creation of the Armistice Line, there was NO Independent Government of Palestine.  All the territory that was not controlled by Israel, was under the control of one of the four principle Arab League Countries.  The Armitice Lines were, by arrangement between the opposing parties, where only to remain in force until a negotiated permanent international boundary was agreed upon by the bellegerents and documented by treaty.

All parties to the conflict → recognise their right and obligation to live in peace with each other as well as with all states within secure and recognised boundaries. The two states affirmed their respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every state in the area.  This is the meaning of Article XII of the Armistice Agreements: * "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."*

And that is exactly what happented. 

Most Respectfully,
R
*
*


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I grasp this; but, don't see the reason for the confusing.
> 
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Arab-Israeli Conflct said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Security Council resolution neither endorses nor precludes these armistice lines as the definitive political boundaries. However, it calls for withdrawal from occupied territories, the nonacquisition of territory by war, and the establishment of secure and recognized boundaries.
> 
> *Green Line*
> 
> The Green Line, so-named because it was drawn with green marker on the maps at the time, designated
> the area under Jewish control in Palestine.
> 
> The border of Israel prior to the June 1967 Six-Day War delineated as a result of the truce agreements that followed the 1948–1949 Israeli War of Independence. The Green Line, so-named because it was drawn with green marker on the maps at the time, designated the area under Jewish control in Palestine.  The Green Line encompassed about 78 percent of Palestinian territory in 1947 before the Israeli War of Independence. Although it delineated a military boundary only, in effect the Green Line actually defined the de facto state borders between Israel and Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon. The sole exception was the municipality of Jerusalem. Israel claimed as sovereign territory the parts of the city administered by Jordan until 1967.
> 
> *Drawing of the Green Line was based almost exclusively on military considerations.* As such, it wreaked havoc on a number of communities, dividing towns and villages and separating farmers from their fields. Jerusalem was especially impacted, being divided into West and East Jerusalem. The Jordanian city of Qalqilyah became virtually an enclave within Israel, while Kibbutz Ramat Rachel was left almost entirely outside of Israeli territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So then, why armistice lines and not borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Armistice Lines are instruments to neutralize hostile fire _(disengage contact between opposing forces) _between the belligerents.  The Armistic Lines are not intended to be establishing permanent international boundaries between states.  At the time of the creation of the Armistice Line, there was NO Independent Government of Palestine.  All the territory that was not controlled by Israel, was under the control of one of the four principle Arab League Countries.  The Armitice Lines were, by arrangement between the opposing parties, where only to remain in force until a negotiated permanent international boundary was agreed upon by the bellegerents and documented by treaty.
> 
> All parties to the conflict → recognise their right and obligation to live in peace with each other as well as with all states within secure and recognised boundaries. The two states affirmed their respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every state in the area.  This is the meaning of Article XII of the Armistice Agreements: * "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."*
> 
> And that is exactly what happented.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> All the territory that was not controlled by Israel, was under the control of one of the four principle Arab League Countries.


The armistice lines divided Palestine into three areas of occupation.

When did those occupations end?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I grasp this; but, don't see the reason for the confusing.
> 
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Arab-Israeli Conflct said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Security Council resolution neither endorses nor precludes these armistice lines as the definitive political boundaries. However, it calls for withdrawal from occupied territories, the nonacquisition of territory by war, and the establishment of secure and recognized boundaries.
> 
> *Green Line*
> 
> The Green Line, so-named because it was drawn with green marker on the maps at the time, designated
> the area under Jewish control in Palestine.
> 
> The border of Israel prior to the June 1967 Six-Day War delineated as a result of the truce agreements that followed the 1948–1949 Israeli War of Independence. The Green Line, so-named because it was drawn with green marker on the maps at the time, designated the area under Jewish control in Palestine.  The Green Line encompassed about 78 percent of Palestinian territory in 1947 before the Israeli War of Independence. Although it delineated a military boundary only, in effect the Green Line actually defined the de facto state borders between Israel and Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon. The sole exception was the municipality of Jerusalem. Israel claimed as sovereign territory the parts of the city administered by Jordan until 1967.
> 
> *Drawing of the Green Line was based almost exclusively on military considerations.* As such, it wreaked havoc on a number of communities, dividing towns and villages and separating farmers from their fields. Jerusalem was especially impacted, being divided into West and East Jerusalem. The Jordanian city of Qalqilyah became virtually an enclave within Israel, while Kibbutz Ramat Rachel was left almost entirely outside of Israeli territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So then, why armistice lines and not borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Armistice Lines are instruments to neutralize hostile fire _(disengage contact between opposing forces) _between the belligerents.  The Armistic Lines are not intended to be establishing permanent international boundaries between states.  At the time of the creation of the Armistice Line, there was NO Independent Government of Palestine.  All the territory that was not controlled by Israel, was under the control of one of the four principle Arab League Countries.  The Armitice Lines were, by arrangement between the opposing parties, where only to remain in force until a negotiated permanent international boundary was agreed upon by the bellegerents and documented by treaty.
> 
> All parties to the conflict → recognise their right and obligation to live in peace with each other as well as with all states within secure and recognised boundaries. The two states affirmed their respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every state in the area.  This is the meaning of Article XII of the Armistice Agreements: * "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."*
> 
> And that is exactly what happented.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> All the territory that was not controlled by Israel, was under the control of one of the four principle Arab League Countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The armistice lines divided Palestine into three areas of occupation.
> 
> When did those occupations end?
Click to expand...


Your comment about three areas of occupation is nonsense.

Your shrill whining is at a frequency that causes all the dogs in my neighborhood to start barking.

Why do you post here when you know so little?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The armistice lines divided Palestine into three areas of occupation.
> 
> When did those occupations end?



All of the occupations ended with peace treaties between the Parties involved in the conflict.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I will limit my response to consider only the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip and their relation and status with respect to Israel. 




 ​


P F Tinmore said:


> [
> The armistice lines divided Palestine into three areas of occupation.
> 
> When did those occupations end?


*(COMMENT)*

The 1967 Occupation of the sovereign Hashemite Kingdom Holdings of the West Bank and Jerusalem ended on 1 August 1988.  The Hashemite Kingdom cut all ties and politically abandon ending the occupation status of the territory.

The Occupation of Egyptian the Gaza Strip holding ending 26 March 1979 with the Peace Agreement.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I will limit my response to consider only the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip and their relation and status with respect to Israel.
> 
> 
> View attachment 260754​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> The armistice lines divided Palestine into three areas of occupation.
> 
> When did those occupations end?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The 1967 Occupation of the sovereign Hashemite Kingdom Holdings of the West Bank and Jerusalem ended on 1 August 1988.  The Hashemite Kingdom cut all ties and politically abandon ending the occupation status of the territory.
> 
> The Occupation of Egyptian the Gaza Strip holding ending 26 March 1979 with the Peace Agreement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Whose sovereign territory was occupied by Jordan and Egypt before 1967?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I will limit my response to consider only the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip and their relation and status with respect to Israel.
> 
> 
> View attachment 260754​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> The armistice lines divided Palestine into three areas of occupation.
> 
> When did those occupations end?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The 1967 Occupation of the sovereign Hashemite Kingdom Holdings of the West Bank and Jerusalem ended on 1 August 1988.  The Hashemite Kingdom cut all ties and politically abandon ending the occupation status of the territory.
> 
> The Occupation of Egyptian the Gaza Strip holding ending 26 March 1979 with the Peace Agreement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whose sovereign territory was occupied by Jordan and Egypt before 1967?
Click to expand...


The only other sovereign which existed in the territory at that time was Israel. So that is the only possible answer.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, this is rediculous.  You know the answer.



P F Tinmore said:


> Whose sovereign territory was occupied by Jordan and Egypt before 1967?


*(REFERENCE)*



			
				EXCEPRT:  Article 77 • Chapert XII •  UN Charter said:
			
		

> *1* The trusteeship system shall apply to such territories in the following categories as may be placed thereunder by means of trusteeship agreements:
> 
> * a.* *territories now held under mandate*;
> 
> *b.* territories which may be detached from enemy states as a result of the Second World War; and
> 
> *c.* territories voluntarily placed under the system by states responsible for their administration.
> 
> *2* It will be a matter for subsequent agreement as to which territories in the foregoing categories will be brought under the trusteeship system and upon what terms.



*(COMMENT)*

Of course you have to remember that the Arab League, as aggressors, to possession before the implementation of the Article 77 Obligations could be put into effect.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

No matter how you want to frame nit, the Arab League Aggressors in the 1948-49 Arab - Israeli War was just a pretext for the four principal actors to sweep-in and grab as much territory that they could.


*(COMMENT)*

Of course, you have to remember that the Arab League, as aggressors, to possession before the implementation of the Article 77 Obligations could be put into effect.  However, the Arab League Arggessors bungled that pretty much.

The ethical question is, given that the Arab Palestinians have twisted the facts up so much, where do they get their authority, even as much as the ability for frivolous complaints against the Israelis.

The nature of the complaint completely change when the Treaty is understood to say:

••  "the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned."

_(The Arabs of Palestine WERE NOT concerned parties to the Treaty.)_​
Nothing was promised to the Arabs of Palestine, as they were part of the enemy inhabitants of the area.  It is not normally the case that the surrender documents after a war, bequeath rewards to the loser population.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> No matter how you want to frame nit, the Arab League Aggressors in the 1948-49 Arab - Israeli War was just a pretext for the four principal actors to sweep-in and grab as much territory that they could.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Of course, you have to remember that the Arab League, as aggressors, to possession before the implementation of the Article 77 Obligations could be put into effect.  However, the Arab League Arggessors bungled that pretty much.
> 
> The ethical question is, given that the Arab Palestinians have twisted the facts up so much, where do they get their authority, even as much as the ability for frivolous complaints against the Israelis.
> 
> The nature of the complaint completely change when the Treaty is understood to say:
> 
> ••  "the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned."
> 
> _(The Arabs of Palestine WERE NOT concerned parties to the Treaty.)_​
> Nothing was promised to the Arabs of Palestine, as they were part of the enemy inhabitants of the area.  It is not normally the case that the surrender documents after a war, bequeath rewards to the loser population.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R





RoccoR said:


> •• "the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned."


Where does it say who were the parties concerned?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> No matter how you want to frame nit, the Arab League Aggressors in the 1948-49 Arab - Israeli War was just a pretext for the four principal actors to sweep-in and grab as much territory that they could.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Of course, you have to remember that the Arab League, as aggressors, to possession before the implementation of the Article 77 Obligations could be put into effect.  However, the Arab League Arggessors bungled that pretty much.
> 
> The ethical question is, given that the Arab Palestinians have twisted the facts up so much, where do they get their authority, even as much as the ability for frivolous complaints against the Israelis.
> 
> The nature of the complaint completely change when the Treaty is understood to say:
> 
> ••  "the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned."
> 
> _(The Arabs of Palestine WERE NOT concerned parties to the Treaty.)_​
> Nothing was promised to the Arabs of Palestine, as they were part of the enemy inhabitants of the area.  It is not normally the case that the surrender documents after a war, bequeath rewards to the loser population.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> •• "the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does it say who were the parties concerned?
Click to expand...


In the signatures.
Do You also ask others to chew Your food?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I will limit my response to consider only the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip and their relation and status with respect to Israel.
> 
> 
> View attachment 260754​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> The armistice lines divided Palestine into three areas of occupation.
> 
> When did those occupations end?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The 1967 Occupation of the sovereign Hashemite Kingdom Holdings of the West Bank and Jerusalem ended on 1 August 1988.  The Hashemite Kingdom cut all ties and politically abandon ending the occupation status of the territory.
> 
> The Occupation of Egyptian the Gaza Strip holding ending 26 March 1979 with the Peace Agreement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

OK. That's two.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I will limit my response to consider only the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip and their relation and status with respect to Israel.
> 
> 
> View attachment 260754​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> The armistice lines divided Palestine into three areas of occupation.
> 
> When did those occupations end?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The 1967 Occupation of the sovereign Hashemite Kingdom Holdings of the West Bank and Jerusalem ended on 1 August 1988.  The Hashemite Kingdom cut all ties and politically abandon ending the occupation status of the territory.
> 
> The Occupation of Egyptian the Gaza Strip holding ending 26 March 1979 with the Peace Agreement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whose sovereign territory was occupied by Jordan and Egypt before 1967?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only other sovereign which existed in the territory at that time was Israel. So that is the only possible answer.
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh, this is rediculous.  You know the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whose sovereign territory was occupied by Jordan and Egypt before 1967?
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCEPRT:  Article 77 • Chapert XII •  UN Charter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *1* The trusteeship system shall apply to such territories in the following categories as may be placed thereunder by means of trusteeship agreements:
> 
> * a.* *territories now held under mandate*;
> 
> *b.* territories which may be detached from enemy states as a result of the Second World War; and
> 
> *c.* territories voluntarily placed under the system by states responsible for their administration.
> 
> *2* It will be a matter for subsequent agreement as to which territories in the foregoing categories will be brought under the trusteeship system and upon what terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Of course you have to remember that the Arab League, as aggressors, to possession before the implementation of the Article 77 Obligations could be put into effect.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Of course you have to remember that the Arab League, as aggressors, to possession before the implementation of the Article 77 Obligations could be put into effect.


Israeli BS talking point. Nobody invaded Israel.


----------



## The Original Tree

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I grasp this; but, don't see the reason for the confusing.
> 
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Arab-Israeli Conflct said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Security Council resolution neither endorses nor precludes these armistice lines as the definitive political boundaries. However, it calls for withdrawal from occupied territories, the nonacquisition of territory by war, and the establishment of secure and recognized boundaries.
> 
> *Green Line*
> 
> The Green Line, so-named because it was drawn with green marker on the maps at the time, designated
> the area under Jewish control in Palestine.
> 
> The border of Israel prior to the June 1967 Six-Day War delineated as a result of the truce agreements that followed the 1948–1949 Israeli War of Independence. The Green Line, so-named because it was drawn with green marker on the maps at the time, designated the area under Jewish control in Palestine.  The Green Line encompassed about 78 percent of Palestinian territory in 1947 before the Israeli War of Independence. Although it delineated a military boundary only, in effect the Green Line actually defined the de facto state borders between Israel and Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon. The sole exception was the municipality of Jerusalem. Israel claimed as sovereign territory the parts of the city administered by Jordan until 1967.
> 
> *Drawing of the Green Line was based almost exclusively on military considerations.* As such, it wreaked havoc on a number of communities, dividing towns and villages and separating farmers from their fields. Jerusalem was especially impacted, being divided into West and East Jerusalem. The Jordanian city of Qalqilyah became virtually an enclave within Israel, while Kibbutz Ramat Rachel was left almost entirely outside of Israeli territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So then, why armistice lines and not borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Armistice Lines are instruments to neutralize hostile fire _(disengage contact between opposing forces) _between the belligerents.  The Armistic Lines are not intended to be establishing permanent international boundaries between states.  At the time of the creation of the Armistice Line, there was NO Independent Government of Palestine.  All the territory that was not controlled by Israel, was under the control of one of the four principle Arab League Countries.  The Armitice Lines were, by arrangement between the opposing parties, where only to remain in force until a negotiated permanent international boundary was agreed upon by the bellegerents and documented by treaty.
> 
> All parties to the conflict → recognise their right and obligation to live in peace with each other as well as with all states within secure and recognised boundaries. The two states affirmed their respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every state in the area.  This is the meaning of Article XII of the Armistice Agreements: * "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."*
> 
> And that is exactly what happented.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> All the territory that was not controlled by Israel, was under the control of one of the four principle Arab League Countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The armistice lines divided Palestine into three areas of occupation.
> 
> When did those occupations end?
Click to expand...


*It is the Fake Palestinian Squatters who are occupying Israel.

There are no people found in any historical documents called the "Palestinians".  These people are frauds and are nothing more than Jordanians, Syrians and Egyptians.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> No matter how you want to frame nit, the Arab League Aggressors in the 1948-49 Arab - Israeli War was just a pretext for the four principal actors to sweep-in and grab as much territory that they could.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Of course, you have to remember that the Arab League, as aggressors, to possession before the implementation of the Article 77 Obligations could be put into effect.  However, the Arab League Arggessors bungled that pretty much.
> 
> The ethical question is, given that the Arab Palestinians have twisted the facts up so much, where do they get their authority, even as much as the ability for frivolous complaints against the Israelis.
> 
> The nature of the complaint completely change when the Treaty is understood to say:
> 
> ••  "the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned."
> 
> _(The Arabs of Palestine WERE NOT concerned parties to the Treaty.)_​
> Nothing was promised to the Arabs of Palestine, as they were part of the enemy inhabitants of the area.  It is not normally the case that the surrender documents after a war, bequeath rewards to the loser population.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R





RoccoR said:


> Nothing was promised to the Arabs of Palestine, as they were part of the enemy inhabitants of the area. It is not normally the case that the surrender documents after a war, bequeath rewards to the loser population.


Palestine was occupied enemy territory until 1924 when it became a non enemy state with no military. Different set of rules under international law.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh → come now.   The question keeps reverberating → trying to suggest that the UN had no authority facilitate the disposition of the territory formerly under Mandate.  Well, reality is a consequence of several independent actions.  *None of these actions taken or decisions* made _(from 1939 to 1948)_ can be contested by the Arab Palestinian since there was no sovereign entity _(a state)_ that was consulted → or for that matter → even existed.  They were not even considered a party to any Armistice or Treaty conceived and executed between the Actual Parties to the conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep bringing up Resolution 181 like it means something. Israel also mentioned Resolution 181 in its declaration of independence. Even in fake history it is said that Israel acquired territory beyond that what was allotted in Resolution 181.
> 
> However, there was no Resolution 181. There was no territory allotted to a Jewish state. There was no legitimacy given to a Jewish state. Resolution 181 was not implemented by the Security Council as required by the resolution.
> 
> So my question remains unanswered. You ducked it again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So say we all_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Declaration of Independence said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> •  A/43/827-S/20278 of 18 November 1988 •
> Despite the historical injustice done to the Palestinian Arab people in its displacement and in being deprived of the right to self-determination following the adoption of General Assembly resolution 181 (II) of 1947, which partitioned Palestine into an Arab and a Jewish State, that resolution nevertheless continues to attach conditions to international legitimacy that guarantee the Palestinian Arab people the right to sovereignty and national independence.
> 
> SOURCE:  *Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole, legitimate representative of the Palestinian people*, as recognized by the international community and represented in the United Nations...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You can be in denial all you want.  The fact of the matter is the PLO have spoken.  GAME OVER
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was already there. It was multi ethnic, multi religious state. The "Arab" state and "Jewish" state were products of the partition that didn't happen. So yeah, there was no "Arab" state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinian State DID NOT come about simply because the Arab Palestinians rejected any attempt to bring them into the commercial, industrial, economic development of a self-sustaining environment …¬
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So my question remains unanswered. You ducked it again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Asked and answered.
> ​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where was Israel's territory?
> Got a map?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At the end of the day → and when the smoke cleared → it is what it is...
> 
> The Arab Palestinians realize that they want, what they perceive, as that which the Israeli have.   They have decided to use force to get it.
> 
> *Today's Territories*
> View attachment 260697​Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> They were not even considered a party to any Armistice or Treaty conceived and executed between the Actual Parties to the conflict.


Indeed, Palestine was not a party in the 1948 war. So they had no place in the armistice.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I grasp this; but, don't see the reason for the confusing.
> 
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Arab-Israeli Conflct said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Security Council resolution neither endorses nor precludes these armistice lines as the definitive political boundaries. However, it calls for withdrawal from occupied territories, the nonacquisition of territory by war, and the establishment of secure and recognized boundaries.
> 
> *Green Line*
> 
> The Green Line, so-named because it was drawn with green marker on the maps at the time, designated
> the area under Jewish control in Palestine.
> 
> The border of Israel prior to the June 1967 Six-Day War delineated as a result of the truce agreements that followed the 1948–1949 Israeli War of Independence. The Green Line, so-named because it was drawn with green marker on the maps at the time, designated the area under Jewish control in Palestine.  The Green Line encompassed about 78 percent of Palestinian territory in 1947 before the Israeli War of Independence. Although it delineated a military boundary only, in effect the Green Line actually defined the de facto state borders between Israel and Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon. The sole exception was the municipality of Jerusalem. Israel claimed as sovereign territory the parts of the city administered by Jordan until 1967.
> 
> *Drawing of the Green Line was based almost exclusively on military considerations.* As such, it wreaked havoc on a number of communities, dividing towns and villages and separating farmers from their fields. Jerusalem was especially impacted, being divided into West and East Jerusalem. The Jordanian city of Qalqilyah became virtually an enclave within Israel, while Kibbutz Ramat Rachel was left almost entirely outside of Israeli territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So then, why armistice lines and not borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Armistice Lines are instruments to neutralize hostile fire _(disengage contact between opposing forces) _between the belligerents.  The Armistic Lines are not intended to be establishing permanent international boundaries between states.  At the time of the creation of the Armistice Line, there was NO Independent Government of Palestine.  All the territory that was not controlled by Israel, was under the control of one of the four principle Arab League Countries.  The Armitice Lines were, by arrangement between the opposing parties, where only to remain in force until a negotiated permanent international boundary was agreed upon by the bellegerents and documented by treaty.
> 
> All parties to the conflict → recognise their right and obligation to live in peace with each other as well as with all states within secure and recognised boundaries. The two states affirmed their respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every state in the area.  This is the meaning of Article XII of the Armistice Agreements: * "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."*
> 
> And that is exactly what happented.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Armitice Lines were, by arrangement between the opposing parties, where only to remain in force until a negotiated permanent international boundary was agreed upon by the bellegerents and documented by treaty.


Where does it say that in the armistice agreements?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> No matter how you want to frame nit, the Arab League Aggressors in the 1948-49 Arab - Israeli War was just a pretext for the four principal actors to sweep-in and grab as much territory that they could.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Of course, you have to remember that the Arab League, as aggressors, to possession before the implementation of the Article 77 Obligations could be put into effect.  However, the Arab League Arggessors bungled that pretty much.
> 
> The ethical question is, given that the Arab Palestinians have twisted the facts up so much, where do they get their authority, even as much as the ability for frivolous complaints against the Israelis.
> 
> The nature of the complaint completely change when the Treaty is understood to say:
> 
> ••  "the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned."
> 
> _(The Arabs of Palestine WERE NOT concerned parties to the Treaty.)_​
> Nothing was promised to the Arabs of Palestine, as they were part of the enemy inhabitants of the area.  It is not normally the case that the surrender documents after a war, bequeath rewards to the loser population.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing was promised to the Arabs of Palestine, as they were part of the enemy inhabitants of the area. It is not normally the case that the surrender documents after a war, bequeath rewards to the loser population.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was occupied enemy territory until 1924 when it became a non enemy state with no military. Different set of rules under international law.
Click to expand...

"Pal'istan" was not a state. More of your silly rewriting of history.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I can't believe it.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> •• "the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned."
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it say who were the parties concerned?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*



			
				Article 2g said:
			
		

> “party” means a State which has consented to be bound by the treaty and for which the treaty is in force;



*(OBSERVATION)*

Prior to 1974, the no legitimate representative of the Palestinian people was considered as a party to any international agreement concluded between States. 

◈  Why, because it was not until 1974 when the independent national authority for the Arab Palestinians was recognized by the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference 28 October 74.

◈  Why, because it was not until November 1988, when The Palestine National Council declared, the establishment of the State of Palestine in the land of Palestine with its capital at Jerusalem.​Since the Arab Palestinians did NOT have a "State" in 1974 or even 1988, it did not possess the capacity to conclude treaties.  It is not even sure today, that the Arab Palestinians can claim that it can adhere to any of the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.  And it is was only seven years ago (2012) that the UN event considered Palestine as a State.



 ​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I can't believe it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> •• "the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned."
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it say who were the parties concerned?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 2g said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “party” means a State which has consented to be bound by the treaty and for which the treaty is in force;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATION)*
> 
> Prior to 1974, the no legitimate representative of the Palestinian people was considered as a party to any international agreement concluded between States.
> 
> ◈  Why, because it was not until 1974 when the independent national authority for the Arab Palestinians was recognized by the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference 28 October 74.
> 
> ◈  Why, because it was not until November 1988, when The Palestine National Council declared, the establishment of the State of Palestine in the land of Palestine with its capital at Jerusalem.​Since the Arab Palestinians did NOT have a "State" in 1974 or even 1988, it did not possess the capacity to conclude treaties.  It is not even sure today, that the Arab Palestinians can claim that it can adhere to any of the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.  And it is was only seven years ago (2012) that the UN event considered Palestine as a State.
> 
> View attachment 260820​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> And it is was only seven years ago (2012) that the UN event considered Palestine as a State.


Is the UN the arbiter as to who is and who is not a state?

Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I can't believe it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> •• "the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned."
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it say who were the parties concerned?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 2g said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “party” means a State which has consented to be bound by the treaty and for which the treaty is in force;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATION)*
> 
> Prior to 1974, the no legitimate representative of the Palestinian people was considered as a party to any international agreement concluded between States.
> 
> ◈  Why, because it was not until 1974 when the independent national authority for the Arab Palestinians was recognized by the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference 28 October 74.
> 
> ◈  Why, because it was not until November 1988, when The Palestine National Council declared, the establishment of the State of Palestine in the land of Palestine with its capital at Jerusalem.​Since the Arab Palestinians did NOT have a "State" in 1974 or even 1988, it did not possess the capacity to conclude treaties.  It is not even sure today, that the Arab Palestinians can claim that it can adhere to any of the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.  And it is was only seven years ago (2012) that the UN event considered Palestine as a State.
> 
> View attachment 260820​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> And it is was only seven years ago (2012) that the UN event considered Palestine as a State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is the UN the arbiter as to who is and who is not a state?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


Indeed, as an expert in international law, "who" would seem an imprecise term for what defines statehood.

Other than that, does this really need to be another thread of your endless screeching about the existence of Israel and your silly, pandering one-liners?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Your claim is simply without any foundation at all.  There is absolutely "misinformation" to claim that:  "Nobody invaded Israel." _(Pure manipulation of the truth.)_




 ​


P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli BS talking point. Nobody invaded Israel.


*(COMMENT)*

The official narrative (political) is toned down.  But it is constant with the Military record where, initially, there was a deep intrusion, as seen above. 



			
				The Question of Palestine and the United Nations said:
			
		

> The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949
> 
> On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I can't believe it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> •• "the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned."
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it say who were the parties concerned?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 2g said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “party” means a State which has consented to be bound by the treaty and for which the treaty is in force;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATION)*
> 
> Prior to 1974, the no legitimate representative of the Palestinian people was considered as a party to any international agreement concluded between States.
> 
> ◈  Why, because it was not until 1974 when the independent national authority for the Arab Palestinians was recognized by the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference 28 October 74.
> 
> ◈  Why, because it was not until November 1988, when The Palestine National Council declared, the establishment of the State of Palestine in the land of Palestine with its capital at Jerusalem.​Since the Arab Palestinians did NOT have a "State" in 1974 or even 1988, it did not possess the capacity to conclude treaties.  It is not even sure today, that the Arab Palestinians can claim that it can adhere to any of the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.  And it is was only seven years ago (2012) that the UN event considered Palestine as a State.
> 
> View attachment 260820​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> And it is was only seven years ago (2012) that the UN event considered Palestine as a State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is the UN the arbiter as to who is and who is not a state?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, as an expert in international law, "who" would seem an imprecise term for what defines statehood.
> 
> Other than that, does this really need to be another thread of your endless screeching about the existence of Israel and your silly, pandering one-liners?
Click to expand...


Indeed, PF Tinmore, it is funny. 

While I am always impressed with Rocco R's seeming encyclopedic knowledge of the history surrounding the area and his ability to articulate that into a logical sequence of referenced data, do you somehow enjoy your silly one-liners being made the subject of pointing and laughing?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Your claim is simply without any foundation at all.  There is absolutely "misinformation" to claim that:  "Nobody invaded Israel." _(Pure manipulation of the truth.)_
> 
> 
> View attachment 260826​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli BS talking point. Nobody invaded Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The official narrative (political) is toned down.  But it is constant with the Military record where, initially, there was a deep intrusion, as seen above.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Question of Palestine and the United Nations said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949
> 
> On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I don't see anything on that map of Palestine marked off as Israeli territory.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Your claim is simply without any foundation at all.  There is absolutely "misinformation" to claim that:  "Nobody invaded Israel." _(Pure manipulation of the truth.)_
> 
> 
> View attachment 260826​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli BS talking point. Nobody invaded Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The official narrative (political) is toned down.  But it is constant with the Military record where, initially, there was a deep intrusion, as seen above.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Question of Palestine and the United Nations said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949
> 
> On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see anything on that map of Palestine marked off as Israeli territory.
Click to expand...


The Arab-.Moslem invaders discovered very quickly where the Israeli armies marked off Israeli territory. 

Another failure for the Islamist gee-had.


----------



## Ropey

Journalists Should Stop Falling For Hamas' Deadly PR Efforts

GCC eliminates top Hamas agents and Iranian proxy leaders.

Targeted killings credited with convincing Hamas leaders to negotiate

They're already negotiating while the Iranian militias attempt to skew the discussions.

Not happening since the leaders of those groups seem to be dying, without any Jews around.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I will limit my response to consider only the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip and their relation and status with respect to Israel.
> 
> 
> View attachment 260754​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> The armistice lines divided Palestine into three areas of occupation.
> 
> When did those occupations end?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The 1967 Occupation of the sovereign Hashemite Kingdom Holdings of the West Bank and Jerusalem ended on 1 August 1988.  The Hashemite Kingdom cut all ties and politically abandon ending the occupation status of the territory.
> 
> The Occupation of Egyptian the Gaza Strip holding ending 26 March 1979 with the Peace Agreement.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whose sovereign territory was occupied by Jordan and Egypt before 1967?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only other sovereign which existed in the territory at that time was Israel. So that is the only possible answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


You want me to link to a non-existent sovereign?  I'll tell you what, why don't you show me a treaty, any treaty, in which one of the Parties to the agreement was the State or Government of Palestine prior to 1967.  Anything you got.


----------



## Hollie

The (wannabe) Islamist invaders again discover where the Israeli border is.

Palestinians mass at Israel border to mark Gaza protest anniversary

The anniversary of the Islamist gee-had failure.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine was occupied enemy territory until 1924 when it became a non enemy state with no military. Different set of rules under international law.



Its like you think the whole Mandate never happened.  And that the disposition of territories abandoned by Turkey in 1924 was just a figment of everyone's imagination.  And then you make up a whole new reality to suit yourself.  But only concerning Israel, of course.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, you can remain in denial, pretend that the Israelis didn't have the Independence, and did not have what the UN Blue Book" said: "establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan."



P F Tinmore said:


> ////////////////////
> I don't see anything on that map of Palestine marked off as Israeli territory.


*(COMMENT)*

But we've come much farther along.  Today, certainly ---- the question is a matter of reasonability.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Is the UN the arbiter as to who is and who is not a state?
> 
> Link?



The UN does not decide who is or who is not a state, however, participation in the UN is very good evidence of the capacity to enter into relations with other states, which is one of the defining attributes of a state, and usually the last to settle into place.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I can't believe it.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> •• "the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned."
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it say who were the parties concerned?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 2g said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “party” means a State which has consented to be bound by the treaty and for which the treaty is in force;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATION)*
> 
> Prior to 1974, the no legitimate representative of the Palestinian people was considered as a party to any international agreement concluded between States.
> 
> ◈  Why, because it was not until 1974 when the independent national authority for the Arab Palestinians was recognized by the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference 28 October 74.
> 
> ◈  Why, because it was not until November 1988, when The Palestine National Council declared, the establishment of the State of Palestine in the land of Palestine with its capital at Jerusalem.​Since the Arab Palestinians did NOT have a "State" in 1974 or even 1988, it did not possess the capacity to conclude treaties.  It is not even sure today, that the Arab Palestinians can claim that it can adhere to any of the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.  And it is was only seven years ago (2012) that the UN event considered Palestine as a State.
> 
> View attachment 260820​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> And it is was only seven years ago (2012) that the UN event considered Palestine as a State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is the UN the arbiter as to who is and who is not a state?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


Why are the "Pal'istanians" appealing to the UN for statehood? Can the UN wave a magic gavel and declare a "state of Pal'istan"?

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Again, you can remain in denial, pretend that the Israelis didn't have the Independence, and did not have what the UN Blue Book" said: "establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ////////////////////
> I don't see anything on that map of Palestine marked off as Israeli territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But we've come much farther along.  Today, certainly ---- the question is a matter of reasonability.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> "establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan."


There was no partition plan.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Again, you can remain in denial, pretend that the Israelis didn't have the Independence, and did not have what the UN Blue Book" said: "establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ////////////////////
> I don't see anything on that map of Palestine marked off as Israeli territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But we've come much farther along.  Today, certainly ---- the question is a matter of reasonability.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no partition plan.
Click to expand...


There's another of Tinmore's conspiracy theories about to dumped into the thread,


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
*
For the Love of the Lords of Kobol.  *



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> "establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan."
> 
> 
> 
> There was no partition plan.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

There was a Partition Plan...  You can read all about it.

*Chapter 2:  The Partition Plan and end of the British Mandate* •  *The Question of Palestine before the United Nations*. . . . . .Page   7​
It really doesn't matter if YOU don't believe, or have some alternative history *(Drunk History)* YOU can lean on.  The reality is _(less pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian Misinformation, Misinterpretation, and other mutilations to the truth)_ what it is.

When the UN made ready for the British Withdraw and the end of the Mandate, the UN Special Committee for Palestine presented two recommendations.  It was the General Assembly that adopted Resolution 181 (II).  The Jewish accepted and the Arabs rejected.  So, the Jewish went forward with the Steps Preparatory to Independence and •_ as has happened so many time prio_r to • the Arabs avoided the invitation to join in the productive advancement of self-governing institutions.

The Hostile Arab Palestinians have implemented a total disregard for the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation with Israel.  They believe that if they can interfere with the implementation with the progressive programs, they can make the claim that UN A/RES/181 (II) "never happened."  Again, it should be noted that in the PLO Declaration of Independence (1988):



> Despite the historical injustice done to the Palestinian Arab people in its displacement and in being deprived of the right to self-determination following the adoption of General Assembly resolution 181 (II) of 1947, which partitioned Palestine into an Arab and a Jewish State, that resolution nevertheless continues to attach conditions to international legitimacy that guarantee the Palestinian Arab people the right to sovereignty and national independence.


Noting, again, that it mentions A/RES/181 (II)...  It should be noted that:



			
				Letter dated 25 March 1999 from the Permanent Observer of Palestine to the United Nations addressed to the Secretary-General said:
			
		

> For the Palestinian side, and since the strategic decision to forge peace on the basis of coexistence, resolution 181 (II) has become acceptable. The resolution provides the legal basis for the existence of both the Jewish and the Arab States in Mandated Palestine.





And the Hostile Arab Palestinians → in different ways → made the following points:
◈  The Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate, and everything that has been based on them, are deemed null and void.
◈  Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.
​Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> *
> For the Love of the Lords of Kobol.  *


*
Bwahahahaha!





*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was occupied enemy territory until 1924 when it became a non enemy state with no military. Different set of rules under international law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its like you think the whole Mandate never happened.  And that the disposition of territories abandoned by Turkey in 1924 was just a figment of everyone's imagination.  And then you make up a whole new reality to suit yourself.  But only concerning Israel, of course.
Click to expand...

Sure the Mandate happened but it had no sovereignty over the land. It was merely a trustee.

The land was ceded to Palestine and the Palestinians became citizens of Palestine by treaty and international law.

The UN has confirmed that the Palestinians in Palestine have the right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty. The right to territorial integrity.

None of these require a government or state. Nevertheless these rights cannot be violated.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was occupied enemy territory until 1924 when it became a non enemy state with no military. Different set of rules under international law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its like you think the whole Mandate never happened.  And that the disposition of territories abandoned by Turkey in 1924 was just a figment of everyone's imagination.  And then you make up a whole new reality to suit yourself.  But only concerning Israel, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure the Mandate happened but it had no sovereignty over the land. It was merely a trustee.
> 
> The land was ceded to Palestine and the Palestinians became citizens of Palestine by treaty and international law.
> 
> The UN has confirmed that the Palestinians in Palestine have the right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty. The right to territorial integrity.
> 
> None of these require a government or state. Nevertheless these rights cannot be violated.
Click to expand...


Actually, the “rights” you demand for Arabs-Moslems are the rights you deny the Jewish people.

You want excuses for why the Arabs-Moslems are unable to form a workable society and so you retreat to classic Arab-Moslem complaints that your failures are the fault of _The Zionist Entity_™️


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was occupied enemy territory until 1924 when it became a non enemy state with no military. Different set of rules under international law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its like you think the whole Mandate never happened.  And that the disposition of territories abandoned by Turkey in 1924 was just a figment of everyone's imagination.  And then you make up a whole new reality to suit yourself.  But only concerning Israel, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure the Mandate happened but it had no sovereignty over the land. It was merely a trustee.
> 
> The land was ceded to Palestine and the Palestinians became citizens of Palestine by treaty and international law.
> 
> The UN has confirmed that the Palestinians in Palestine have the right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty. The right to territorial integrity.
> 
> None of these require a government or state. Nevertheless these rights cannot be violated.
Click to expand...


There was no Mandate.


----------



## Ropey

Sorry about the Golan, terrorists...






Not sorry.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Close_!_  But no "Kewpie Doll."  You make this mistake quite often.

First, let's remember: The Arab Palestinians are what we call a "third party" or "third state" _(means a State not a party to the treaty • Article 2(1h) Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties)_.

As we know, the Arab Palestinians are not a party to either the Treaty of Lausanne or anything prior to at least 1988.  THUS:


> A third State (third party) is not entitled to contest the validity of a legal act that other entities had the power to perform under international law.  This is true even if it was not a party to the legal transaction. Thus, if the competent UN body decided to withdraw a mandate which had been granted under Article 22 of the League of Nations Covenant, it thereby exercises its proper functions and the legal situation created on the ground has consequently to be accepted by third States _(except if they claim that the UN organ overstepped its competence)_.  The same is true for territorial and boundary issues. A treaty setting up a boundary or
> deciding on the ownership of some part of the territory is *res inter alios acta* _(done between strangers ought not to affect a third person)_ for the third State.





self-determination Tinmore said:


> Sure the Mandate happened but it had no sovereignty over the land. It was merely a trustee.
> 
> The land was ceded to Palestine and the Palestinians became citizens of Palestine by treaty and international law.
> 
> The UN has confirmed that the Palestinians in Palestine have the right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty. The right to territorial integrity.
> 
> None of these require a government or state. Nevertheless, these rights cannot be violated.


*(COMMENT)*

There is a huge difference between Article 16 _(found within Part I → Political • Section I → *Territorial Clauses*)_ and Article 30 _ (found within Part I → Political • Section II → *Nationality Clauses*)_ of the *Treaty of Lausanne* (1924).

You cannot use Article 30 authority on territorial issues and sovereignty.  AND! You cannot use Article 16 authority to explain nationality issues and citizenship.

One has to do with the territory specified _(binding upon each party in respect of its entire territory)_, where as the nationality clause has to do with the prevention, to the extent possible, the creation of persons not considered a national by any other country (stateless).

Nationality Clauses deals with the handling of people issues • NOT territory.   Whereas Territorial Clauses deal with matters of sovereignty, boundaries, issues of acquisition and transfer of authority over a territory.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Mindful

What was "occupied", when Jordan was occupying it? What was it called?


It's so simple, even a child could understand it:

Let’s break it down. The Israeli/Palestinian conflict may be difficult to solve but if you know the history, it’s rather simple to understand. Israel wants to exist as a Jewish state and live in peace.


Palestinians want them dead.

There’s NO “Israeli Occupation” In The West Bank


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Close_!_  But no "Kewpie Doll."  You make this mistake quite often.
> 
> First, let's remember: The Arab Palestinians are what we call a "third party" or "third state" _(means a State not a party to the treaty • Article 2(1h) Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties)_.
> 
> As we know, the Arab Palestinians are not a party to either the Treaty of Lausanne or anything prior to at least 1988.  THUS:
> 
> 
> 
> A third State (third party) is not entitled to contest the validity of a legal act that other entities had the power to perform under international law.  This is true even if it was not a party to the legal transaction. Thus, if the competent UN body decided to withdraw a mandate which had been granted under Article 22 of the League of Nations Covenant, it thereby exercises its proper functions and the legal situation created on the ground has consequently to be accepted by third States _(except if they claim that the UN organ overstepped its competence)_.  The same is true for territorial and boundary issues. A treaty setting up a boundary or
> deciding on the ownership of some part of the territory is *res inter alios acta* _(done between strangers ought not to affect a third person)_ for the third State.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> self-determination Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure the Mandate happened but it had no sovereignty over the land. It was merely a trustee.
> 
> The land was ceded to Palestine and the Palestinians became citizens of Palestine by treaty and international law.
> 
> The UN has confirmed that the Palestinians in Palestine have the right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty. The right to territorial integrity.
> 
> None of these require a government or state. Nevertheless, these rights cannot be violated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is a huge difference between Article 16 _(found within Part I → Political • Section I → *Territorial Clauses*)_ and Article 30 _ (found within Part I → Political • Section II → *Nationality Clauses*)_ of the *Treaty of Lausanne* (1924).
> 
> You cannot use Article 30 authority on territorial issues and sovereignty.  AND! You cannot use Article 16 authority to explain nationality issues and citizenship.
> 
> One has to do with the territory specified _(binding upon each party in respect of its entire territory)_, where as the nationality clause has to do with the prevention, to the extent possible, the creation of persons not considered a national by any other country (stateless).
> 
> Nationality Clauses deals with the handling of people issues • NOT territory.   Whereas Territorial Clauses deal with matters of sovereignty, boundaries, issues of acquisition and transfer of authority over a territory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Holy smokescreen, Batman!

Stated in many different ways, international law has one basic. The land belongs to the people and the people belong to the land. They cannot be separated. The people are the sovereigns within their defined territory.

British/Zionist colonialism violates virtually all of the protections afforded the Palestinians under international law.


----------



## Mindful

I'm so flattered you read my posts, Herr Tinmore.


----------



## Likkmee

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Close_!_  But no "Kewpie Doll."  You make this mistake quite often.
> 
> First, let's remember: The Arab Palestinians are what we call a "third party" or "third state" _(means a State not a party to the treaty • Article 2(1h) Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties)_.
> 
> As we know, the Arab Palestinians are not a party to either the Treaty of Lausanne or anything prior to at least 1988.  THUS:
> 
> 
> 
> A third State (third party) is not entitled to contest the validity of a legal act that other entities had the power to perform under international law.  This is true even if it was not a party to the legal transaction. Thus, if the competent UN body decided to withdraw a mandate which had been granted under Article 22 of the League of Nations Covenant, it thereby exercises its proper functions and the legal situation created on the ground has consequently to be accepted by third States _(except if they claim that the UN organ overstepped its competence)_.  The same is true for territorial and boundary issues. A treaty setting up a boundary or
> deciding on the ownership of some part of the territory is *res inter alios acta* _(done between strangers ought not to affect a third person)_ for the third State.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> self-determination Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure the Mandate happened but it had no sovereignty over the land. It was merely a trustee.
> 
> The land was ceded to Palestine and the Palestinians became citizens of Palestine by treaty and international law.
> 
> The UN has confirmed that the Palestinians in Palestine have the right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty. The right to territorial integrity.
> 
> None of these require a government or state. Nevertheless, these rights cannot be violated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is a huge difference between Article 16 _(found within Part I → Political • Section I → *Territorial Clauses*)_ and Article 30 _ (found within Part I → Political • Section II → *Nationality Clauses*)_ of the *Treaty of Lausanne* (1924).
> 
> You cannot use Article 30 authority on territorial issues and sovereignty.  AND! You cannot use Article 16 authority to explain nationality issues and citizenship.
> 
> One has to do with the territory specified _(binding upon each party in respect of its entire territory)_, where as the nationality clause has to do with the prevention, to the extent possible, the creation of persons not considered a national by any other country (stateless).
> 
> Nationality Clauses deals with the handling of people issues • NOT territory.   Whereas Territorial Clauses deal with matters of sovereignty, boundaries, issues of acquisition and transfer of authority over a territory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy smokescreen, Batman!
> 
> Stated in many different ways, international law has one basic. The land belongs to the people and the people belong to the land. They cannot be separated. The people are the sovereigns within their defined territory.
> 
> British/Zionist colonialism violates virtually all of the protections afforded the Palestinians under international law.
Click to expand...

OH. OK


----------



## Mindful

The PCBS report revealed that the population of Palestine in 1914 was 690,000. Only 8% of the population were Jewish. Meanwhile, in 1948 the population of Palestine reached over 2 million, 31.5% of them were Jewish. This dramatic increase in the numbers of Jewish people are attributed to mass migrations, supported by the British mandate.

*Although of the ethnic cleansing and genocides against Palestinians, the total number of them has reached around 13.1 million in the end of 2018, which means that the number of Palestinians has multiplied ninefold since 1948*. 6.48 million Palestinians live in the historical Palestine.

I should point out that these figures are extremely inflated, since:


It is clearly counting more than 5 million “palestinian refugees” as calculated by UNRWA’s already grossly inflated number, which includes those who lived in “Palestine” a minimum of only two years preceding 1948, as well as descendants of these “refugees” (including adopted children). In actual fact, there were 600,000-700,000 palestinian refugees from the War of Independence
They include Arab Israelis, way more of whom identify as Israeli than as “palestinian”
The Arab population in the palestinian-controlled territories and Israel may be closer to 6.5 million. And even that number is arguably inflated. Whatever the actual number, what is clear is that’s one hell of a genocide and ethnic cleansing fail.






Thank you Quds News Network for reminding us all about it – despite your lies!

Palestinian Propaganda Site: Our Population Has Increased Ninefold Since Nakba. Damn Ethnic Cleansing & Genocide!


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, I don't think so*!*



P F Tinmore said:


> Stated in many different ways, international law has one basic. The land belongs to the people and the people belong to the land. They cannot be separated. The people are the sovereigns within their defined territory.


*(TEACH ME • SHOW ME)*

I would like to see your reference.

Where doe it say this in the law?
Show me a legal and enforceable citation under international law that says this.

*(JUST MY THOUGHT and OBSERVATION)*

Not all countries are the same, and so, I believe you are citing a theoretical legal concept for one form of government.

BUT, In a Kingdom or Emerat, like you find in the MENA the Government is the sovereign entity.  In most countries and in International Law, there is a difference between "sovereignty" over territory and "ownership" over territory.

Similarly, under international law, the status of sovereignty over territory and the sovereignty of a person is different.  

Similarly, nationality and citizenship are criteria that are not universal from nation to nation.  And the nation is the determining factor - not the people.  If you a born in one nation, you are not automatically a citizen of other nations _(except by stipulation of domestic law)_.  International Law does not control national domestic law.   While some states have bound themselves by treaty, convention or other instruments, there are extraction and egress clauses.



			
				A DICTIONARY OF MODERN LEGAL USAGE • SECOND EDITION • Bryan A. said:
			
		

> *sovereignty:*  It has three primary senses:
> 
> (1) “supreme dominion, authority, or rule”;
> (2) “the position, rank, or control of a supreme ruler, such as a monarch, or controlling power, such as a democratically formed government”; or
> (3) “territory under the rule of a sovereign, or existing as an independent state.”​


 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Close_!_  But no "Kewpie Doll."  You make this mistake quite often.
> 
> First, let's remember: The Arab Palestinians are what we call a "third party" or "third state" _(means a State not a party to the treaty • Article 2(1h) Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties)_.
> 
> As we know, the Arab Palestinians are not a party to either the Treaty of Lausanne or anything prior to at least 1988.  THUS:
> 
> 
> 
> A third State (third party) is not entitled to contest the validity of a legal act that other entities had the power to perform under international law.  This is true even if it was not a party to the legal transaction. Thus, if the competent UN body decided to withdraw a mandate which had been granted under Article 22 of the League of Nations Covenant, it thereby exercises its proper functions and the legal situation created on the ground has consequently to be accepted by third States _(except if they claim that the UN organ overstepped its competence)_.  The same is true for territorial and boundary issues. A treaty setting up a boundary or
> deciding on the ownership of some part of the territory is *res inter alios acta* _(done between strangers ought not to affect a third person)_ for the third State.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> self-determination Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure the Mandate happened but it had no sovereignty over the land. It was merely a trustee.
> 
> The land was ceded to Palestine and the Palestinians became citizens of Palestine by treaty and international law.
> 
> The UN has confirmed that the Palestinians in Palestine have the right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty. The right to territorial integrity.
> 
> None of these require a government or state. Nevertheless, these rights cannot be violated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is a huge difference between Article 16 _(found within Part I → Political • Section I → *Territorial Clauses*)_ and Article 30 _ (found within Part I → Political • Section II → *Nationality Clauses*)_ of the *Treaty of Lausanne* (1924).
> 
> You cannot use Article 30 authority on territorial issues and sovereignty.  AND! You cannot use Article 16 authority to explain nationality issues and citizenship.
> 
> One has to do with the territory specified _(binding upon each party in respect of its entire territory)_, where as the nationality clause has to do with the prevention, to the extent possible, the creation of persons not considered a national by any other country (stateless).
> 
> Nationality Clauses deals with the handling of people issues • NOT territory.   Whereas Territorial Clauses deal with matters of sovereignty, boundaries, issues of acquisition and transfer of authority over a territory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy smokescreen, Batman!
> 
> Stated in many different ways, international law has one basic. The land belongs to the people and the people belong to the land. They cannot be separated. The people are the sovereigns within their defined territory.
> 
> British/Zionist colonialism violates virtually all of the protections afforded the Palestinians under international law.
Click to expand...


The brief from the legal team of PF Tinmore, Inc. includes references to long established principles of “.... because I say so”.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OH, I don't think so*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stated in many different ways, international law has one basic. The land belongs to the people and the people belong to the land. They cannot be separated. The people are the sovereigns within their defined territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(TEACH ME • SHOW ME)*
> 
> I would like to see your reference.
> 
> Where doe it say this in the law?
> Show me a legal and enforceable citation under international law that says this.
> 
> *(JUST MY THOUGHT and OBSERVATION)*
> 
> Not all countries are the same, and so, I believe you are citing a theoretical legal concept for one form of government.
> 
> BUT, In a Kingdom or Emerat, like you find in the MENA the Government is the sovereign entity.  In most countries and in International Law, there is a difference between "sovereignty" over territory and "ownership" over territory.
> 
> Similarly, under international law, the status of sovereignty over territory and the sovereignty of a person is different.
> 
> Similarly, nationality and citizenship are criteria that are not universal from nation to nation.  And the nation is the determining factor - not the people.  If you a born in one nation, you are not automatically a citizen of other nations _(except by stipulation of domestic law)_.  International Law does not control national domestic law.   While some states have bound themselves by treaty, convention or other instruments, there are extraction and egress clauses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A DICTIONARY OF MODERN LEGAL USAGE • SECOND EDITION • Bryan A. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *sovereignty:*  It has three primary senses:
> 
> (1) “supreme dominion, authority, or rule”;
> (2) “the position, rank, or control of a supreme ruler, such as a monarch, or controlling power, such as a democratically formed government”; or
> (3) “territory under the rule of a sovereign, or existing as an independent state.”​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Ethnic cleansing is illegal.

Acquiring territory by force is illegal.

Where is your confusion?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OH, I don't think so*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stated in many different ways, international law has one basic. The land belongs to the people and the people belong to the land. They cannot be separated. The people are the sovereigns within their defined territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(TEACH ME • SHOW ME)*
> 
> I would like to see your reference.
> 
> Where doe it say this in the law?
> Show me a legal and enforceable citation under international law that says this.
> 
> *(JUST MY THOUGHT and OBSERVATION)*
> 
> Not all countries are the same, and so, I believe you are citing a theoretical legal concept for one form of government.
> 
> BUT, In a Kingdom or Emerat, like you find in the MENA the Government is the sovereign entity.  In most countries and in International Law, there is a difference between "sovereignty" over territory and "ownership" over territory.
> 
> Similarly, under international law, the status of sovereignty over territory and the sovereignty of a person is different.
> 
> Similarly, nationality and citizenship are criteria that are not universal from nation to nation.  And the nation is the determining factor - not the people.  If you a born in one nation, you are not automatically a citizen of other nations _(except by stipulation of domestic law)_.  International Law does not control national domestic law.   While some states have bound themselves by treaty, convention or other instruments, there are extraction and egress clauses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A DICTIONARY OF MODERN LEGAL USAGE • SECOND EDITION • Bryan A. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *sovereignty:*  It has three primary senses:
> 
> (1) “supreme dominion, authority, or rule”;
> (2) “the position, rank, or control of a supreme ruler, such as a monarch, or controlling power, such as a democratically formed government”; or
> (3) “territory under the rule of a sovereign, or existing as an independent state.”​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ethnic cleansing is illegal.
> 
> Acquiring territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Where is your confusion?
Click to expand...


You should have advised the combined Arab-Islamist armies of that. 

Are you confused?


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OH, I don't think so*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stated in many different ways, international law has one basic. The land belongs to the people and the people belong to the land. They cannot be separated. The people are the sovereigns within their defined territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(TEACH ME • SHOW ME)*
> 
> I would like to see your reference.
> 
> Where doe it say this in the law?
> Show me a legal and enforceable citation under international law that says this.
> 
> *(JUST MY THOUGHT and OBSERVATION)*
> 
> Not all countries are the same, and so, I believe you are citing a theoretical legal concept for one form of government.
> 
> BUT, In a Kingdom or Emerat, like you find in the MENA the Government is the sovereign entity.  In most countries and in International Law, there is a difference between "sovereignty" over territory and "ownership" over territory.
> 
> Similarly, under international law, the status of sovereignty over territory and the sovereignty of a person is different.
> 
> Similarly, nationality and citizenship are criteria that are not universal from nation to nation.  And the nation is the determining factor - not the people.  If you a born in one nation, you are not automatically a citizen of other nations _(except by stipulation of domestic law)_.  International Law does not control national domestic law.   While some states have bound themselves by treaty, convention or other instruments, there are extraction and egress clauses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A DICTIONARY OF MODERN LEGAL USAGE • SECOND EDITION • Bryan A. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *sovereignty:*  It has three primary senses:
> 
> (1) “supreme dominion, authority, or rule”;
> (2) “the position, rank, or control of a supreme ruler, such as a monarch, or controlling power, such as a democratically formed government”; or
> (3) “territory under the rule of a sovereign, or existing as an independent state.”​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ethnic cleansing is illegal.
> 
> Acquiring territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Where is your confusion?
Click to expand...


Where's yours?

Concerning the ethnic cleansing of Jews from Arab countries.

And the Muslim conquests, for starters.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OH, I don't think so*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stated in many different ways, international law has one basic. The land belongs to the people and the people belong to the land. They cannot be separated. The people are the sovereigns within their defined territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(TEACH ME • SHOW ME)*
> 
> I would like to see your reference.
> 
> Where doe it say this in the law?
> Show me a legal and enforceable citation under international law that says this.
> 
> *(JUST MY THOUGHT and OBSERVATION)*
> 
> Not all countries are the same, and so, I believe you are citing a theoretical legal concept for one form of government.
> 
> BUT, In a Kingdom or Emerat, like you find in the MENA the Government is the sovereign entity.  In most countries and in International Law, there is a difference between "sovereignty" over territory and "ownership" over territory.
> 
> Similarly, under international law, the status of sovereignty over territory and the sovereignty of a person is different.
> 
> Similarly, nationality and citizenship are criteria that are not universal from nation to nation.  And the nation is the determining factor - not the people.  If you a born in one nation, you are not automatically a citizen of other nations _(except by stipulation of domestic law)_.  International Law does not control national domestic law.   While some states have bound themselves by treaty, convention or other instruments, there are extraction and egress clauses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A DICTIONARY OF MODERN LEGAL USAGE • SECOND EDITION • Bryan A. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *sovereignty:*  It has three primary senses:
> 
> (1) “supreme dominion, authority, or rule”;
> (2) “the position, rank, or control of a supreme ruler, such as a monarch, or controlling power, such as a democratically formed government”; or
> (3) “territory under the rule of a sovereign, or existing as an independent state.”​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ethnic cleansing is illegal.
> 
> Acquiring territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Where is your confusion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where's yours?
> 
> Concerning the ethnic cleansing of Jews from Arab countries.
Click to expand...

Unrelated issue. Has nothing to do with Palestine.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OH, I don't think so*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stated in many different ways, international law has one basic. The land belongs to the people and the people belong to the land. They cannot be separated. The people are the sovereigns within their defined territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(TEACH ME • SHOW ME)*
> 
> I would like to see your reference.
> 
> Where doe it say this in the law?
> Show me a legal and enforceable citation under international law that says this.
> 
> *(JUST MY THOUGHT and OBSERVATION)*
> 
> Not all countries are the same, and so, I believe you are citing a theoretical legal concept for one form of government.
> 
> BUT, In a Kingdom or Emerat, like you find in the MENA the Government is the sovereign entity.  In most countries and in International Law, there is a difference between "sovereignty" over territory and "ownership" over territory.
> 
> Similarly, under international law, the status of sovereignty over territory and the sovereignty of a person is different.
> 
> Similarly, nationality and citizenship are criteria that are not universal from nation to nation.  And the nation is the determining factor - not the people.  If you a born in one nation, you are not automatically a citizen of other nations _(except by stipulation of domestic law)_.  International Law does not control national domestic law.   While some states have bound themselves by treaty, convention or other instruments, there are extraction and egress clauses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A DICTIONARY OF MODERN LEGAL USAGE • SECOND EDITION • Bryan A. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *sovereignty:*  It has three primary senses:
> 
> (1) “supreme dominion, authority, or rule”;
> (2) “the position, rank, or control of a supreme ruler, such as a monarch, or controlling power, such as a democratically formed government”; or
> (3) “territory under the rule of a sovereign, or existing as an independent state.”​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ethnic cleansing is illegal.
> 
> Acquiring territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Where is your confusion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where's yours?
> 
> Concerning the ethnic cleansing of Jews from Arab countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unrelated issue. Has nothing to do with Palestine.
Click to expand...


You're still confused then?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OH, I don't think so*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stated in many different ways, international law has one basic. The land belongs to the people and the people belong to the land. They cannot be separated. The people are the sovereigns within their defined territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(TEACH ME • SHOW ME)*
> 
> I would like to see your reference.
> 
> Where doe it say this in the law?
> Show me a legal and enforceable citation under international law that says this.
> 
> *(JUST MY THOUGHT and OBSERVATION)*
> 
> Not all countries are the same, and so, I believe you are citing a theoretical legal concept for one form of government.
> 
> BUT, In a Kingdom or Emerat, like you find in the MENA the Government is the sovereign entity.  In most countries and in International Law, there is a difference between "sovereignty" over territory and "ownership" over territory.
> 
> Similarly, under international law, the status of sovereignty over territory and the sovereignty of a person is different.
> 
> Similarly, nationality and citizenship are criteria that are not universal from nation to nation.  And the nation is the determining factor - not the people.  If you a born in one nation, you are not automatically a citizen of other nations _(except by stipulation of domestic law)_.  International Law does not control national domestic law.   While some states have bound themselves by treaty, convention or other instruments, there are extraction and egress clauses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A DICTIONARY OF MODERN LEGAL USAGE • SECOND EDITION • Bryan A. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *sovereignty:*  It has three primary senses:
> 
> (1) “supreme dominion, authority, or rule”;
> (2) “the position, rank, or control of a supreme ruler, such as a monarch, or controlling power, such as a democratically formed government”; or
> (3) “territory under the rule of a sovereign, or existing as an independent state.”​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ethnic cleansing is illegal.
> 
> Acquiring territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Where is your confusion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where's yours?
> 
> Concerning the ethnic cleansing of Jews from Arab countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unrelated issue. Has nothing to do with Palestine.
Click to expand...


Gaza’istan is not a zip code in... wait for it.... the _Country of Pal’istan which was created by the Treaty of Lausanne?
_
Are there any Jews in Gaza’istan?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sure the Mandate happened but it had no sovereignty over the land. It was merely a trustee.


We agree.  The Mandate was a trusteeship, safe-guarding the self-determination of ALL the peoples there until they were able to "stand alone".



> The land was ceded to Palestine


 You've been corrected on this so many times, its impossible to count them, and ridiculous in the extreme that you continue to make this "error".  Again, Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne reads:

_Turkey hereby *renounces all rights and title whatsoever *over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*._

The territory was not ceded TO anyone. (It is entirely possible to cede territory to another sovereign.  See Article 15 of the same Treaty where the wording is: _Turkey hereby renounces in favour of Italy all rights and title..._)   The territory was ABANDONED by Turkey.  The territory was to be settled by the parties involved.  Now, we can argue who the "parties involved" are.  I might even agree with you, contrary, I think, to Rocco's argument, that the parties involved were not only the trustees of the Mandate but also the people for whom the Mandate was holding the territory.  



> and the Palestinians became citizens of Palestine by treaty and international law.


Sure.  In 1925, the British Mandate enacted a citizenship law (as they were required to do by treaty) making Turkish nationals habitually resident in the territory of Palestine, as well as immigrating Jews, Palestinian citizens.  I have no real argument with this statement, in isolation.  The problem is in how you use it.  



> ... the Palestinians in Palestine have the right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty.


 Yes.  Both the JEWISH Palestinians and the ARAB Palestinians have the right to self-determination.  The rights of Jewish Palestinians were very clearly and very specifically outlined in a number of documents.  Those documents unequivocally state that the RIGHT of the Jewish Palestinians is based on their specific culture, long history, previous nationhood and ancestral claim to that territory.  (Its the precursor to defining indigenous rights).



> The right to territorial integrity.


 Of course. Every sovereign nation has a right to territorial integrity.  But here's the thing: in EVERY case that I can think of, where the right to self-determination of a people comes in conflict with a sovereign's territorial integrity, the right of self-determination ALWAYS wins out.  The right of self-determination has precedence over territorial integrity. 



> None of these require a government or state. Nevertheless these rights cannot be violated.


The right to self-determination does not require a government or state.  Actualization of self-determination definitely requires a government and state.  




See the thing with you is that you get 90% of it right.  You are one of the most knowledgeable people on this board when it comes to the actual documents, treaties and legal principles.  And you reach the correct conclusions most of the time.  

BUT for the 10% you get wrong, you are so colossally, stubbornly, unreasonably wrong that you lose all credibility and no one can take you seriously.

I'm pretty sure you can read.  I'm pretty sure you actually have read Articles 15 and 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne and can understand the difference between _renounces_ and _renounces in favor of _and yet in a few weeks I KNOW you are going to come back with, "Turkey ceded the territory to Palestine".  You hold on to a few blatant misrepresentations of facts: a 10% which is not grounded in thoughtful assessment of the actual documents, treaties and legal principles, to the point of utter ridiculousness.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Stated in many different ways, international law has one basic. The land belongs to the people and the people belong to the land. They cannot be separated. The people are the sovereigns within their defined territory.



So close, and yet so far.

Self-determination of peoples is indeed a principle of international law.  

But territories are defined and re-defined all the time.  There is nothing sacred or immutable about borders and boundary lines.  That is another principle of international law.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Acquiring territory by force is illegal.



Then Arabs should stop trying to take Israel by force.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law : free download. Ebooks library. On-line books store on Z-Library
Oh hell!  I'm confused because I don't think you and I have the same definitions for these things. 



P F Tinmore said:


> Ethnic cleansing is illegal.


*(COMMENT)*



			
				encyclopedia Dictionary of International Law said:
			
		

> ethnic cleansing This term came to prominence in the 1990s during the conflicts in the
> former Yugoslavia, though the phenomenon had been existing for some considerable time,
> being condemned by the U.N. General Assembly in Res. 47/80 of 16 December 1992 as
> a violation of international humanitarian law and of universally recognized human rights,
> without any clear definition of what acts constituted ethnic cleansing or what specific
> provisions of international humanitarian law and human rights were being violated by
> these acts. See also Res. 47/121 of 7 April 1993 . While there are similarities between
> ethnic cleansing and genocide, absent the intention to destroy an ethnic group and not
> merely members of that group or to dissolve it, ethnic cleansing does not amount to genocide:
> Genocide Convention Cases 2007 I.C.J. Rep. 1 at 70 and 71; Jorgic v. Germany ,
> E.C.H.R. Application 74613/01 (2007) at para. 45; Krsti ć Case , I.C.T.Y. IT-98–33-T (2001) ,
> para. 562. The definitions of crimes against humanity in art. 7 and of war crimes in art.
> 8 of the Statute of the International Criminal Court of 17 July 1998 ( 2187 U.N.T.S. 3 )
> are such as to enable those committing acts typically associated with ethnic cleansing to be
> brought before the Court. See also forcible transfers .
> SOURCE:  Oxford University Press • Print Publication Date: 2009 • Print ISBN-13: 9780195389777
> NOTE:  I have an electronic copy (.pdf) of this Third Edition. If you don't have one. Email me and I'll send it.
> RoccoRosano@Yahoo.com OR you can get it from the Deep Web (Z-Library project) at Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law : free download. Ebooks library. On-line books store on Z-Library



I think it is difficult to interpret Articles 7 and 8 of the Rome Statues (ICC) or the ICC Elements of an Offense and apply it to the Arab Israeli Conflict (in either the 1948 War or the Six Day War) since the Rome Statute was established in 1998 and  entered into force on 1 July 2002.   So, I interested in what particular ethnic cleansing since 1998 / 2002 you are capturing?

I'm interested in knowing what you have defined it and what the "element of the offense is."  If you don't have a definition and you don't have a codified set of elements of the offense, it is really difficult to enforce.   Teach me how you understand this.



P F Tinmore said:


> Acquiring territory by force is illegal.


*(COMMENT)*

The base authority for this is Article 2(4) of the UN Charter.  It does not say "Acquiring territory by force."  This is just media slang for the uneducated in describing Article 2(4):


			
				Chapter I • Article 2(4) UN Charter said:
			
		

> All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.



First:  The Arab Palestinians could not have had any "territorial integrity" or "political independence" before 1988 → and some would argue → 2012.

Second:  And the "use of force" in the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip where against the Egyptians and the Jordanians.  Not the Arab Palestinians.  And so the Treaties with the Egyptians and the Jordanians resolved those issues.  When did the Israelis "Acquire any Palestinian Territory by force?" 





P F Tinmore said:


> Where is your confusion?


*(COMMENT)*

I think that absent a sound and valid argument, these claims are frivolous and an attempt to create a conflict under the color of law by manipulation the definitions and laws themselves.

Help me out here... Teach me how valid each or your claims are.  Use short and simple terms as I am an old man.  In fact, today is my birthday.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure the Mandate happened but it had no sovereignty over the land. It was merely a trustee.
> 
> 
> 
> We agree.  The Mandate was a trusteeship, safe-guarding the self-determination of ALL the peoples there until they were able to "stand alone".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The land was ceded to Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've been corrected on this so many times, its impossible to count them, and ridiculous in the extreme that you continue to make this "error".  Again, Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne reads:
> 
> _Turkey hereby *renounces all rights and title whatsoever *over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*._
> 
> The territory was not ceded TO anyone. (It is entirely possible to cede territory to another sovereign.  See Article 15 of the same Treaty where the wording is: _Turkey hereby renounces in favour of Italy all rights and title..._)   The territory was ABANDONED by Turkey.  The territory was to be settled by the parties involved.  Now, we can argue who the "parties involved" are.  I might even agree with you, contrary, I think, to Rocco's argument, that the parties involved were not only the trustees of the Mandate but also the people for whom the Mandate was holding the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and the Palestinians became citizens of Palestine by treaty and international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.  In 1925, the British Mandate enacted a citizenship law (as they were required to do by treaty) making Turkish nationals habitually resident in the territory of Palestine, as well as immigrating Jews, Palestinian citizens.  I have no real argument with this statement, in isolation.  The problem is in how you use it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... the Palestinians in Palestine have the right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes.  Both the JEWISH Palestinians and the ARAB Palestinians have the right to self-determination.  The rights of Jewish Palestinians were very clearly and very specifically outlined in a number of documents.  Those documents unequivocally state that the RIGHT of the Jewish Palestinians is based on their specific culture, long history, previous nationhood and ancestral claim to that territory.  (Its the precursor to defining indigenous rights).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The right to territorial integrity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course. Every sovereign nation has a right to territorial integrity.  But here's the thing: in EVERY case that I can think of, where the right to self-determination of a people comes in conflict with a sovereign's territorial integrity, the right of self-determination ALWAYS wins out.  The right of self-determination has precedence over territorial integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> None of these require a government or state. Nevertheless these rights cannot be violated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The right to self-determination does not require a government or state.  Actualization of self-determination definitely requires a government and state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See the thing with you is that you get 90% of it right.  You are one of the most knowledgeable people on this board when it comes to the actual documents, treaties and legal principles.  And you reach the correct conclusions most of the time.
> 
> BUT for the 10% you get wrong, you are so colossally, stubbornly, unreasonably wrong that you lose all credibility and no one can take you seriously.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you can read.  I'm pretty sure you actually have read Articles 15 and 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne and can understand the difference between _renounces_ and _renounces in favor of _and yet in a few weeks I KNOW you are going to come back with, "Turkey ceded the territory to Palestine".  You hold on to a few blatant misrepresentations of facts: a 10% which is not grounded in thoughtful assessment of the actual documents, treaties and legal principles, to the point of utter ridiculousness.
Click to expand...


I think the bottom line here is a very simple and basic truth that is denied:

Israel is Palestine. 
Potato potato. 
The chicken and the egg.


----------



## rylah

Mazal Tov dear RoccoR




edit: oh I didn't see the "not", sure You know it was all meant with good intention.


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> I think the bottom line here is a very simple and basic truth that is denied:
> 
> Israel is Palestine.



Bingo!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure the Mandate happened but it had no sovereignty over the land. It was merely a trustee.
> 
> 
> 
> We agree.  The Mandate was a trusteeship, safe-guarding the self-determination of ALL the peoples there until they were able to "stand alone".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The land was ceded to Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've been corrected on this so many times, its impossible to count them, and ridiculous in the extreme that you continue to make this "error".  Again, Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne reads:
> 
> _Turkey hereby *renounces all rights and title whatsoever *over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*._
> 
> The territory was not ceded TO anyone. (It is entirely possible to cede territory to another sovereign.  See Article 15 of the same Treaty where the wording is: _Turkey hereby renounces in favour of Italy all rights and title..._)   The territory was ABANDONED by Turkey.  The territory was to be settled by the parties involved.  Now, we can argue who the "parties involved" are.  I might even agree with you, contrary, I think, to Rocco's argument, that the parties involved were not only the trustees of the Mandate but also the people for whom the Mandate was holding the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and the Palestinians became citizens of Palestine by treaty and international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.  In 1925, the British Mandate enacted a citizenship law (as they were required to do by treaty) making Turkish nationals habitually resident in the territory of Palestine, as well as immigrating Jews, Palestinian citizens.  I have no real argument with this statement, in isolation.  The problem is in how you use it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... the Palestinians in Palestine have the right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes.  Both the JEWISH Palestinians and the ARAB Palestinians have the right to self-determination.  The rights of Jewish Palestinians were very clearly and very specifically outlined in a number of documents.  Those documents unequivocally state that the RIGHT of the Jewish Palestinians is based on their specific culture, long history, previous nationhood and ancestral claim to that territory.  (Its the precursor to defining indigenous rights).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The right to territorial integrity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course. Every sovereign nation has a right to territorial integrity.  But here's the thing: in EVERY case that I can think of, where the right to self-determination of a people comes in conflict with a sovereign's territorial integrity, the right of self-determination ALWAYS wins out.  The right of self-determination has precedence over territorial integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> None of these require a government or state. Nevertheless these rights cannot be violated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The right to self-determination does not require a government or state.  Actualization of self-determination definitely requires a government and state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See the thing with you is that you get 90% of it right.  You are one of the most knowledgeable people on this board when it comes to the actual documents, treaties and legal principles.  And you reach the correct conclusions most of the time.
> 
> BUT for the 10% you get wrong, you are so colossally, stubbornly, unreasonably wrong that you lose all credibility and no one can take you seriously.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you can read.  I'm pretty sure you actually have read Articles 15 and 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne and can understand the difference between _renounces_ and _renounces in favor of _and yet in a few weeks I KNOW you are going to come back with, "Turkey ceded the territory to Palestine".  You hold on to a few blatant misrepresentations of facts: a 10% which is not grounded in thoughtful assessment of the actual documents, treaties and legal principles, to the point of utter ridiculousness.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> I might even agree with you, contrary, I think, to Rocco's argument, that the parties involved were not only the trustees of the Mandate but also the people for whom the Mandate was holding the territory.


Indeed, trustees hold territory in trust for somebody. The Mandates held the land in trust for the inhabitants i.e. the Palestinians. No foreigners were mentioned.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure the Mandate happened but it had no sovereignty over the land. It was merely a trustee.
> 
> 
> 
> We agree.  The Mandate was a trusteeship, safe-guarding the self-determination of ALL the peoples there until they were able to "stand alone".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The land was ceded to Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've been corrected on this so many times, its impossible to count them, and ridiculous in the extreme that you continue to make this "error".  Again, Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne reads:
> 
> _Turkey hereby *renounces all rights and title whatsoever *over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*._
> 
> The territory was not ceded TO anyone. (It is entirely possible to cede territory to another sovereign.  See Article 15 of the same Treaty where the wording is: _Turkey hereby renounces in favour of Italy all rights and title..._)   The territory was ABANDONED by Turkey.  The territory was to be settled by the parties involved.  Now, we can argue who the "parties involved" are.  I might even agree with you, contrary, I think, to Rocco's argument, that the parties involved were not only the trustees of the Mandate but also the people for whom the Mandate was holding the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and the Palestinians became citizens of Palestine by treaty and international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.  In 1925, the British Mandate enacted a citizenship law (as they were required to do by treaty) making Turkish nationals habitually resident in the territory of Palestine, as well as immigrating Jews, Palestinian citizens.  I have no real argument with this statement, in isolation.  The problem is in how you use it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... the Palestinians in Palestine have the right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes.  Both the JEWISH Palestinians and the ARAB Palestinians have the right to self-determination.  The rights of Jewish Palestinians were very clearly and very specifically outlined in a number of documents.  Those documents unequivocally state that the RIGHT of the Jewish Palestinians is based on their specific culture, long history, previous nationhood and ancestral claim to that territory.  (Its the precursor to defining indigenous rights).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The right to territorial integrity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course. Every sovereign nation has a right to territorial integrity.  But here's the thing: in EVERY case that I can think of, where the right to self-determination of a people comes in conflict with a sovereign's territorial integrity, the right of self-determination ALWAYS wins out.  The right of self-determination has precedence over territorial integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> None of these require a government or state. Nevertheless these rights cannot be violated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The right to self-determination does not require a government or state.  Actualization of self-determination definitely requires a government and state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See the thing with you is that you get 90% of it right.  You are one of the most knowledgeable people on this board when it comes to the actual documents, treaties and legal principles.  And you reach the correct conclusions most of the time.
> 
> BUT for the 10% you get wrong, you are so colossally, stubbornly, unreasonably wrong that you lose all credibility and no one can take you seriously.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you can read.  I'm pretty sure you actually have read Articles 15 and 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne and can understand the difference between _renounces_ and _renounces in favor of _and yet in a few weeks I KNOW you are going to come back with, "Turkey ceded the territory to Palestine".  You hold on to a few blatant misrepresentations of facts: a 10% which is not grounded in thoughtful assessment of the actual documents, treaties and legal principles, to the point of utter ridiculousness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I might even agree with you, contrary, I think, to Rocco's argument, that the parties involved were not only the trustees of the Mandate but also the people for whom the Mandate was holding the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, trustees hold territory in trust for somebody. The Mandates held the land in trust for the inhabitants i.e. the Palestinians. No foreigners were mentioned.
Click to expand...


The Jewish people are not foreigners in their own land. The Jewish people were not only INCLUDED in the designation of “Palestinians”, they were specifically recognized.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> When did the Israelis "Acquire any Palestinian Territory by force?"


1948


----------



## Hollie

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure the Mandate happened but it had no sovereignty over the land. It was merely a trustee.
> 
> 
> 
> We agree.  The Mandate was a trusteeship, safe-guarding the self-determination of ALL the peoples there until they were able to "stand alone".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The land was ceded to Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've been corrected on this so many times, its impossible to count them, and ridiculous in the extreme that you continue to make this "error".  Again, Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne reads:
> 
> _Turkey hereby *renounces all rights and title whatsoever *over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*._
> 
> The territory was not ceded TO anyone. (It is entirely possible to cede territory to another sovereign.  See Article 15 of the same Treaty where the wording is: _Turkey hereby renounces in favour of Italy all rights and title..._)   The territory was ABANDONED by Turkey.  The territory was to be settled by the parties involved.  Now, we can argue who the "parties involved" are.  I might even agree with you, contrary, I think, to Rocco's argument, that the parties involved were not only the trustees of the Mandate but also the people for whom the Mandate was holding the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and the Palestinians became citizens of Palestine by treaty and international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.  In 1925, the British Mandate enacted a citizenship law (as they were required to do by treaty) making Turkish nationals habitually resident in the territory of Palestine, as well as immigrating Jews, Palestinian citizens.  I have no real argument with this statement, in isolation.  The problem is in how you use it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... the Palestinians in Palestine have the right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes.  Both the JEWISH Palestinians and the ARAB Palestinians have the right to self-determination.  The rights of Jewish Palestinians were very clearly and very specifically outlined in a number of documents.  Those documents unequivocally state that the RIGHT of the Jewish Palestinians is based on their specific culture, long history, previous nationhood and ancestral claim to that territory.  (Its the precursor to defining indigenous rights).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The right to territorial integrity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course. Every sovereign nation has a right to territorial integrity.  But here's the thing: in EVERY case that I can think of, where the right to self-determination of a people comes in conflict with a sovereign's territorial integrity, the right of self-determination ALWAYS wins out.  The right of self-determination has precedence over territorial integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> None of these require a government or state. Nevertheless these rights cannot be violated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The right to self-determination does not require a government or state.  Actualization of self-determination definitely requires a government and state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See the thing with you is that you get 90% of it right.  You are one of the most knowledgeable people on this board when it comes to the actual documents, treaties and legal principles.  And you reach the correct conclusions most of the time.
> 
> BUT for the 10% you get wrong, you are so colossally, stubbornly, unreasonably wrong that you lose all credibility and no one can take you seriously.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you can read.  I'm pretty sure you actually have read Articles 15 and 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne and can understand the difference between _renounces_ and _renounces in favor of _and yet in a few weeks I KNOW you are going to come back with, "Turkey ceded the territory to Palestine".  You hold on to a few blatant misrepresentations of facts: a 10% which is not grounded in thoughtful assessment of the actual documents, treaties and legal principles, to the point of utter ridiculousness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I might even agree with you, contrary, I think, to Rocco's argument, that the parties involved were not only the trustees of the Mandate but also the people for whom the Mandate was holding the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, trustees hold territory in trust for somebody. The Mandates held the land in trust for the inhabitants i.e. the Palestinians. No foreigners were mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish people are not foreigners in their own land. The Jewish people were not only INCLUDED in the designation of “Palestinians”, they were specifically recognized.
Click to expand...


When exactly did Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese, etc. magically become “Pal’istanians”?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did the Israelis "Acquire any Palestinian Territory by force?"
> 
> 
> 
> 1948
Click to expand...


1948 was the invasion by the combined Arab armies.


----------



## Shusha

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did the Israelis "Acquire any Palestinian Territory by force?"
> 
> 
> 
> 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1948 was the invasion by the combined Arab armies.
Click to expand...



Hey wait a minute. I thought it wasn’t legal to acquire land by force.


----------



## Shusha

Hollie said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure the Mandate happened but it had no sovereignty over the land. It was merely a trustee.
> 
> 
> 
> We agree.  The Mandate was a trusteeship, safe-guarding the self-determination of ALL the peoples there until they were able to "stand alone".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The land was ceded to Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've been corrected on this so many times, its impossible to count them, and ridiculous in the extreme that you continue to make this "error".  Again, Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne reads:
> 
> _Turkey hereby *renounces all rights and title whatsoever *over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*._
> 
> The territory was not ceded TO anyone. (It is entirely possible to cede territory to another sovereign.  See Article 15 of the same Treaty where the wording is: _Turkey hereby renounces in favour of Italy all rights and title..._)   The territory was ABANDONED by Turkey.  The territory was to be settled by the parties involved.  Now, we can argue who the "parties involved" are.  I might even agree with you, contrary, I think, to Rocco's argument, that the parties involved were not only the trustees of the Mandate but also the people for whom the Mandate was holding the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and the Palestinians became citizens of Palestine by treaty and international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.  In 1925, the British Mandate enacted a citizenship law (as they were required to do by treaty) making Turkish nationals habitually resident in the territory of Palestine, as well as immigrating Jews, Palestinian citizens.  I have no real argument with this statement, in isolation.  The problem is in how you use it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... the Palestinians in Palestine have the right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes.  Both the JEWISH Palestinians and the ARAB Palestinians have the right to self-determination.  The rights of Jewish Palestinians were very clearly and very specifically outlined in a number of documents.  Those documents unequivocally state that the RIGHT of the Jewish Palestinians is based on their specific culture, long history, previous nationhood and ancestral claim to that territory.  (Its the precursor to defining indigenous rights).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The right to territorial integrity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course. Every sovereign nation has a right to territorial integrity.  But here's the thing: in EVERY case that I can think of, where the right to self-determination of a people comes in conflict with a sovereign's territorial integrity, the right of self-determination ALWAYS wins out.  The right of self-determination has precedence over territorial integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> None of these require a government or state. Nevertheless these rights cannot be violated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The right to self-determination does not require a government or state.  Actualization of self-determination definitely requires a government and state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See the thing with you is that you get 90% of it right.  You are one of the most knowledgeable people on this board when it comes to the actual documents, treaties and legal principles.  And you reach the correct conclusions most of the time.
> 
> BUT for the 10% you get wrong, you are so colossally, stubbornly, unreasonably wrong that you lose all credibility and no one can take you seriously.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you can read.  I'm pretty sure you actually have read Articles 15 and 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne and can understand the difference between _renounces_ and _renounces in favor of _and yet in a few weeks I KNOW you are going to come back with, "Turkey ceded the territory to Palestine".  You hold on to a few blatant misrepresentations of facts: a 10% which is not grounded in thoughtful assessment of the actual documents, treaties and legal principles, to the point of utter ridiculousness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I might even agree with you, contrary, I think, to Rocco's argument, that the parties involved were not only the trustees of the Mandate but also the people for whom the Mandate was holding the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, trustees hold territory in trust for somebody. The Mandates held the land in trust for the inhabitants i.e. the Palestinians. No foreigners were mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish people are not foreigners in their own land. The Jewish people were not only INCLUDED in the designation of “Palestinians”, they were specifically recognized.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When exactly did Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese, etc. magically become “Pal’istanians”?
Click to expand...


As meant by a distinct people with rights to self-determination?  Developed in the 1970s and 1980s. They certainly had it by 1988 when they declared independence. Even if they had no means to bring that about. As a people, they existed definitively by then.


----------



## Hollie

Shusha said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure the Mandate happened but it had no sovereignty over the land. It was merely a trustee.
> 
> 
> 
> We agree.  The Mandate was a trusteeship, safe-guarding the self-determination of ALL the peoples there until they were able to "stand alone".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The land was ceded to Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've been corrected on this so many times, its impossible to count them, and ridiculous in the extreme that you continue to make this "error".  Again, Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne reads:
> 
> _Turkey hereby *renounces all rights and title whatsoever *over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*._
> 
> The territory was not ceded TO anyone. (It is entirely possible to cede territory to another sovereign.  See Article 15 of the same Treaty where the wording is: _Turkey hereby renounces in favour of Italy all rights and title..._)   The territory was ABANDONED by Turkey.  The territory was to be settled by the parties involved.  Now, we can argue who the "parties involved" are.  I might even agree with you, contrary, I think, to Rocco's argument, that the parties involved were not only the trustees of the Mandate but also the people for whom the Mandate was holding the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and the Palestinians became citizens of Palestine by treaty and international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.  In 1925, the British Mandate enacted a citizenship law (as they were required to do by treaty) making Turkish nationals habitually resident in the territory of Palestine, as well as immigrating Jews, Palestinian citizens.  I have no real argument with this statement, in isolation.  The problem is in how you use it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... the Palestinians in Palestine have the right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes.  Both the JEWISH Palestinians and the ARAB Palestinians have the right to self-determination.  The rights of Jewish Palestinians were very clearly and very specifically outlined in a number of documents.  Those documents unequivocally state that the RIGHT of the Jewish Palestinians is based on their specific culture, long history, previous nationhood and ancestral claim to that territory.  (Its the precursor to defining indigenous rights).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The right to territorial integrity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course. Every sovereign nation has a right to territorial integrity.  But here's the thing: in EVERY case that I can think of, where the right to self-determination of a people comes in conflict with a sovereign's territorial integrity, the right of self-determination ALWAYS wins out.  The right of self-determination has precedence over territorial integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> None of these require a government or state. Nevertheless these rights cannot be violated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The right to self-determination does not require a government or state.  Actualization of self-determination definitely requires a government and state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See the thing with you is that you get 90% of it right.  You are one of the most knowledgeable people on this board when it comes to the actual documents, treaties and legal principles.  And you reach the correct conclusions most of the time.
> 
> BUT for the 10% you get wrong, you are so colossally, stubbornly, unreasonably wrong that you lose all credibility and no one can take you seriously.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you can read.  I'm pretty sure you actually have read Articles 15 and 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne and can understand the difference between _renounces_ and _renounces in favor of _and yet in a few weeks I KNOW you are going to come back with, "Turkey ceded the territory to Palestine".  You hold on to a few blatant misrepresentations of facts: a 10% which is not grounded in thoughtful assessment of    the actual documents, treaties and legal principles, to the point of utter ridiculousness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I might even agree with you, contrary, I think, to Rocco's argument, that the parties involved were not only the trustees of the Mandate but also the people for whom the Mandate was holding the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, trustees hold territory in trust for somebody. The Mandates held the land in trust for the inhabitants i.e. the Palestinians. No foreigners were mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish people are not foreigners in their own land. The Jewish people were not only INCLUDED in the designation of “Palestinians”, they were specifically recognized.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When exactly did Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese, etc. magically become “Pal’istanians”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As meant by a distinct people with rights to self-determination?  Developed in the 1970s and 1980s. They certainly had it by 1988 when they declared independence. Even if they had no means to bring that about. As a people, they existed definitively by then.
Click to expand...


I see it differently in the sense that I don’t find the hallmarks of a unique or distinct culture. For example, such attributes as music, art, literature, a shared sense of “selves”, a society that tends to coalesce around shared goals and objectives, relations with other societies that form mutually beneficial relations are some of the attributes (admittedly a subjective viewpoint), that define “a people”. Much of the history during the 1970s and 1980’s for those calling themselves Palestinians is defined by warring street gangs, infighting between political rivals and the exporting of mass murder / suicide. Let’s remember that Black September in1970 and into 1971 was Arafat’s PLO warring with Jordanian forces. 

Palestinian warring street gangs are little different today with Hamas and Fatah on the event horizon of another civil war. I really see very little that defines a cohesive culture when there are two, very different, utterly hostile and antagonistic factions, both looking for control of fiefdoms.


----------



## Hollie

Shusha said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did the Israelis "Acquire any Palestinian Territory by force?"
> 
> 
> 
> 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1948 was the invasion by the combined Arab armies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hey wait a minute. I thought it wasn’t legal to acquire land by force.
Click to expand...


I’m sure our friend PF Tinmore has already convinced himself that Arabs-Moslems have exclusive entitlements.


----------



## Shusha

Hollie said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> We agree.  The Mandate was a trusteeship, safe-guarding the self-determination of ALL the peoples there until they were able to "stand alone".
> 
> You've been corrected on this so many times, its impossible to count them, and ridiculous in the extreme that you continue to make this "error".  Again, Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne reads:
> 
> _Turkey hereby *renounces all rights and title whatsoever *over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*._
> 
> The territory was not ceded TO anyone. (It is entirely possible to cede territory to another sovereign.  See Article 15 of the same Treaty where the wording is: _Turkey hereby renounces in favour of Italy all rights and title..._)   The territory was ABANDONED by Turkey.  The territory was to be settled by the parties involved.  Now, we can argue who the "parties involved" are.  I might even agree with you, contrary, I think, to Rocco's argument, that the parties involved were not only the trustees of the Mandate but also the people for whom the Mandate was holding the territory.
> 
> Sure.  In 1925, the British Mandate enacted a citizenship law (as they were required to do by treaty) making Turkish nationals habitually resident in the territory of Palestine, as well as immigrating Jews, Palestinian citizens.  I have no real argument with this statement, in isolation.  The problem is in how you use it.
> 
> Yes.  Both the JEWISH Palestinians and the ARAB Palestinians have the right to self-determination.  The rights of Jewish Palestinians were very clearly and very specifically outlined in a number of documents.  Those documents unequivocally state that the RIGHT of the Jewish Palestinians is based on their specific culture, long history, previous nationhood and ancestral claim to that territory.  (Its the precursor to defining indigenous rights).
> 
> Of course. Every sovereign nation has a right to territorial integrity.  But here's the thing: in EVERY case that I can think of, where the right to self-determination of a people comes in conflict with a sovereign's territorial integrity, the right of self-determination ALWAYS wins out.  The right of self-determination has precedence over territorial integrity.
> 
> The right to self-determination does not require a government or state.  Actualization of self-determination definitely requires a government and state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See the thing with you is that you get 90% of it right.  You are one of the most knowledgeable people on this board when it comes to the actual documents, treaties and legal principles.  And you reach the correct conclusions most of the time.
> 
> BUT for the 10% you get wrong, you are so colossally, stubbornly, unreasonably wrong that you lose all credibility and no one can take you seriously.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you can read.  I'm pretty sure you actually have read Articles 15 and 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne and can understand the difference between _renounces_ and _renounces in favor of _and yet in a few weeks I KNOW you are going to come back with, "Turkey ceded the territory to Palestine".  You hold on to a few blatant misrepresentations of facts: a 10% which is not grounded in thoughtful assessment of    the actual documents, treaties and legal principles, to the point of utter ridiculousness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I might even agree with you, contrary, I think, to Rocco's argument, that the parties involved were not only the trustees of the Mandate but also the people for whom the Mandate was holding the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, trustees hold territory in trust for somebody. The Mandates held the land in trust for the inhabitants i.e. the Palestinians. No foreigners were mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish people are not foreigners in their own land. The Jewish people were not only INCLUDED in the designation of “Palestinians”, they were specifically recognized.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When exactly did Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese, etc. magically become “Pal’istanians”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As meant by a distinct people with rights to self-determination?  Developed in the 1970s and 1980s. They certainly had it by 1988 when they declared independence. Even if they had no means to bring that about. As a people, they existed definitively by then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see it differently in the sense that I don’t find the hallmarks of a unique or distinct culture. For example, such attributes as music, art, literature, a shared sense of “selves”, a society that tends to coalesce around shared goals and objectives, relations with other societies that form mutually beneficial relations are some of the attributes (admittedly a subjective viewpoint), that define “a people”. Much of the history during the 1970s and 1980’s for those calling themselves Palestinians is defined by warring street gangs, infighting between political rivals and the exporting of mass murder / suicide. Let’s remember that Black September in1970 and into 1971 was Arafat’s PLO warring with Jordanian forces.
> 
> Palestinian warring street gangs are little different today with Hamas and Fatah on the event horizon of another civil war. I really see very little that defines a cohesive culture when there are two, very different, utterly hostile and antagonistic factions, both looking for control of fiefdoms.
Click to expand...


I don’t at all disagree with you. But at this point they are distinct enough from Israel and from Jordan that I don’t see any alternative than to recognize them as a distinct people , poor as that distinction is.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Yes. Both the JEWISH Palestinians and the ARAB Palestinians have the right to self-determination.


Palestinians were Palestinians without distinction. There were no different groups of citizens. They were all just one people.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OH, I don't think so*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stated in many different ways, international law has one basic. The land belongs to the people and the people belong to the land. They cannot be separated. The people are the sovereigns within their defined territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(TEACH ME • SHOW ME)*
> 
> I would like to see your reference.
> 
> Where doe it say this in the law?
> Show me a legal and enforceable citation under international law that says this.
> 
> *(JUST MY THOUGHT and OBSERVATION)*
> 
> Not all countries are the same, and so, I believe you are citing a theoretical legal concept for one form of government.
> 
> BUT, In a Kingdom or Emerat, like you find in the MENA the Government is the sovereign entity.  In most countries and in International Law, there is a difference between "sovereignty" over territory and "ownership" over territory.
> 
> Similarly, under international law, the status of sovereignty over territory and the sovereignty of a person is different.
> 
> Similarly, nationality and citizenship are criteria that are not universal from nation to nation.  And the nation is the determining factor - not the people.  If you a born in one nation, you are not automatically a citizen of other nations _(except by stipulation of domestic law)_.  International Law does not control national domestic law.   While some states have bound themselves by treaty, convention or other instruments, there are extraction and egress clauses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A DICTIONARY OF MODERN LEGAL USAGE • SECOND EDITION • Bryan A. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *sovereignty:*  It has three primary senses:
> 
> (1) “supreme dominion, authority, or rule”;
> (2) “the position, rank, or control of a supreme ruler, such as a monarch, or controlling power, such as a democratically formed government”; or
> (3) “territory under the rule of a sovereign, or existing as an independent state.”​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ethnic cleansing is illegal.
> 
> Acquiring territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Where is your confusion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You should have advised the combined Arab-Islamist armies of that.
> 
> Are you confused?
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> You should have advised the combined Arab-Islamist armies of that.


None of them were at war with Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure the Mandate happened but it had no sovereignty over the land. It was merely a trustee.
> 
> 
> 
> We agree.  The Mandate was a trusteeship, safe-guarding the self-determination of ALL the peoples there until they were able to "stand alone".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The land was ceded to Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've been corrected on this so many times, its impossible to count them, and ridiculous in the extreme that you continue to make this "error".  Again, Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne reads:
> 
> _Turkey hereby *renounces all rights and title whatsoever *over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*._
> 
> The territory was not ceded TO anyone. (It is entirely possible to cede territory to another sovereign.  See Article 15 of the same Treaty where the wording is: _Turkey hereby renounces in favour of Italy all rights and title..._)   The territory was ABANDONED by Turkey.  The territory was to be settled by the parties involved.  Now, we can argue who the "parties involved" are.  I might even agree with you, contrary, I think, to Rocco's argument, that the parties involved were not only the trustees of the Mandate but also the people for whom the Mandate was holding the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and the Palestinians became citizens of Palestine by treaty and international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.  In 1925, the British Mandate enacted a citizenship law (as they were required to do by treaty) making Turkish nationals habitually resident in the territory of Palestine, as well as immigrating Jews, Palestinian citizens.  I have no real argument with this statement, in isolation.  The problem is in how you use it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... the Palestinians in Palestine have the right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes.  Both the JEWISH Palestinians and the ARAB Palestinians have the right to self-determination.  The rights of Jewish Palestinians were very clearly and very specifically outlined in a number of documents.  Those documents unequivocally state that the RIGHT of the Jewish Palestinians is based on their specific culture, long history, previous nationhood and ancestral claim to that territory.  (Its the precursor to defining indigenous rights).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The right to territorial integrity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course. Every sovereign nation has a right to territorial integrity.  But here's the thing: in EVERY case that I can think of, where the right to self-determination of a people comes in conflict with a sovereign's territorial integrity, the right of self-determination ALWAYS wins out.  The right of self-determination has precedence over territorial integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> None of these require a government or state. Nevertheless these rights cannot be violated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The right to self-determination does not require a government or state.  Actualization of self-determination definitely requires a government and state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See the thing with you is that you get 90% of it right.  You are one of the most knowledgeable people on this board when it comes to the actual documents, treaties and legal principles.  And you reach the correct conclusions most of the time.
> 
> BUT for the 10% you get wrong, you are so colossally, stubbornly, unreasonably wrong that you lose all credibility and no one can take you seriously.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you can read.  I'm pretty sure you actually have read Articles 15 and 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne and can understand the difference between _renounces_ and _renounces in favor of _and yet in a few weeks I KNOW you are going to come back with, "Turkey ceded the territory to Palestine".  You hold on to a few blatant misrepresentations of facts: a 10% which is not grounded in thoughtful assessment of the actual documents, treaties and legal principles, to the point of utter ridiculousness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I might even agree with you, contrary, I think, to Rocco's argument, that the parties involved were not only the trustees of the Mandate but also the people for whom the Mandate was holding the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, trustees hold territory in trust for somebody. The Mandates held the land in trust for the inhabitants i.e. the Palestinians. No foreigners were mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish people are not foreigners in their own land. The Jewish people were not only INCLUDED in the designation of “Palestinians”, they were specifically recognized.
Click to expand...

Immigrating Jews could get Palestinian citizenship. Until then they were not Palestinians.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. Both the JEWISH Palestinians and the ARAB Palestinians have the right to self-determination.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians were Palestinians without distinction. There were no different groups of citizens. They were all just one people.
Click to expand...


Don’t be naive.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OH, I don't think so*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stated in many different ways, international law has one basic. The land belongs to the people and the people belong to the land. They cannot be separated. The people are the sovereigns within their defined territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(TEACH ME • SHOW ME)*
> 
> I would like to see your reference.
> 
> Where doe it say this in the law?
> Show me a legal and enforceable citation under international law that says this.
> 
> *(JUST MY THOUGHT and OBSERVATION)*
> 
> Not all countries are the same, and so, I believe you are citing a theoretical legal concept for one form of government.
> 
> BUT, In a Kingdom or Emerat, like you find in the MENA the Government is the sovereign entity.  In most countries and in International Law, there is a difference between "sovereignty" over territory and "ownership" over territory.
> 
> Similarly, under international law, the status of sovereignty over territory and the sovereignty of a person is different.
> 
> Similarly, nationality and citizenship are criteria that are not universal from nation to nation.  And the nation is the determining factor - not the people.  If you a born in one nation, you are not automatically a citizen of other nations _(except by stipulation of domestic law)_.  International Law does not control national domestic law.   While some states have bound themselves by treaty, convention or other instruments, there are extraction and egress clauses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A DICTIONARY OF MODERN LEGAL USAGE • SECOND EDITION • Bryan A. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *sovereignty:*  It has three primary senses:
> 
> (1) “supreme dominion, authority, or rule”;
> (2) “the position, rank, or control of a supreme ruler, such as a monarch, or controlling power, such as a democratically formed government”; or
> (3) “territory under the rule of a sovereign, or existing as an independent state.”​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ethnic cleansing is illegal.
> 
> Acquiring territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Where is your confusion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You should have advised the combined Arab-Islamist armies of that.
> 
> Are you confused?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should have advised the combined Arab-Islamist armies of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of them were at war with Palestine.
Click to expand...


They were at war with the Jews of Palestine. If there was no distinction, as you just said, then they were certainly at war with Palestine.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure the Mandate happened but it had no sovereignty over the land. It was merely a trustee.
> 
> 
> 
> We agree.  The Mandate was a trusteeship, safe-guarding the self-determination of ALL the peoples there until they were able to "stand alone".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The land was ceded to Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've been corrected on this so many times, its impossible to count them, and ridiculous in the extreme that you continue to make this "error".  Again, Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne reads:
> 
> _Turkey hereby *renounces all rights and title whatsoever *over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*._
> 
> The territory was not ceded TO anyone. (It is entirely possible to cede territory to another sovereign.  See Article 15 of the same Treaty where the wording is: _Turkey hereby renounces in favour of Italy all rights and title..._)   The territory was ABANDONED by Turkey.  The territory was to be settled by the parties involved.  Now, we can argue who the "parties involved" are.  I might even agree with you, contrary, I think, to Rocco's argument, that the parties involved were not only the trustees of the Mandate but also the people for whom the Mandate was holding the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and the Palestinians became citizens of Palestine by treaty and international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.  In 1925, the British Mandate enacted a citizenship law (as they were required to do by treaty) making Turkish nationals habitually resident in the territory of Palestine, as well as immigrating Jews, Palestinian citizens.  I have no real argument with this statement, in isolation.  The problem is in how you use it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... the Palestinians in Palestine have the right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes.  Both the JEWISH Palestinians and the ARAB Palestinians have the right to self-determination.  The rights of Jewish Palestinians were very clearly and very specifically outlined in a number of documents.  Those documents unequivocally state that the RIGHT of the Jewish Palestinians is based on their specific culture, long history, previous nationhood and ancestral claim to that territory.  (Its the precursor to defining indigenous rights).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The right to territorial integrity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course. Every sovereign nation has a right to territorial integrity.  But here's the thing: in EVERY case that I can think of, where the right to self-determination of a people comes in conflict with a sovereign's territorial integrity, the right of self-determination ALWAYS wins out.  The right of self-determination has precedence over territorial integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> None of these require a government or state. Nevertheless these rights cannot be violated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The right to self-determination does not require a government or state.  Actualization of self-determination definitely requires a government and state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See the thing with you is that you get 90% of it right.  You are one of the most knowledgeable people on this board when it comes to the actual documents, treaties and legal principles.  And you reach the correct conclusions most of the time.
> 
> BUT for the 10% you get wrong, you are so colossally, stubbornly, unreasonably wrong that you lose all credibility and no one can take you seriously.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you can read.  I'm pretty sure you actually have read Articles 15 and 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne and can understand the difference between _renounces_ and _renounces in favor of _and yet in a few weeks I KNOW you are going to come back with, "Turkey ceded the territory to Palestine".  You hold on to a few blatant misrepresentations of facts: a 10% which is not grounded in thoughtful assessment of the actual documents, treaties and legal principles, to the point of utter ridiculousness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I might even agree with you, contrary, I think, to Rocco's argument, that the parties involved were not only the trustees of the Mandate but also the people for whom the Mandate was holding the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, trustees hold territory in trust for somebody. The Mandates held the land in trust for the inhabitants i.e. the Palestinians. No foreigners were mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish people are not foreigners in their own land. The Jewish people were not only INCLUDED in the designation of “Palestinians”, they were specifically recognized.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Immigrating Jews could get Palestinian citizenship. Until then they were not Palestinians.
Click to expand...


Immigrating and local Jews have the sovereign right to rename their nation state back to its original name.
The name Eretz Yisrael was also used in official notes of the Mandatory Palestine.

War on Palestine was an Arab war on Jews, the boycott of Palestine was initiated by the Arabs as solely boycott of Jews and identified as such. The assaults against the Jewish minority didn't start as result of immigration, as there were waves of pogroms preceding the first one.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

You have this quite wrong again.



PF Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did the Israelis "Acquire any Palestinian Territory by force?"
> 
> 
> 
> 1948
Click to expand...

*(REFERENCE)*

*Article 51*
*Nothing in the present Charter* shall impair the inherent right of *individual* or collective *self-defense* if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nationsthan until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security.

*BLUE BOOK - Question of Palestine*
*The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949*:  On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.

*(COMMENT)*

The Arab League did not abide by "use of force" concepts any more than the Arab Palestinians bothered to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions.  

Just because the Arab League, supported by their Major Allied Powers _(mostly Russian)_ failed to trash Israel _(not just once - not just twice - not just three times)_, supported by its Major Power, does not mean it has grounds for a cause for either legal or military action.  

The Israelis followed the UN Speical Committee on Palestine recommendations and the regiment of "Steps Preparatory for Independence.  The Arab League, less that 24 hours after Declaring Independence, the Arab League attempted to intervene and crush the Israeli.  After failing to interfere with the Jewish act of self-determination _(in violation of Article 1(2) of the UN Charter)_ they continued to attempt to interfere politically, economically and commercially.  Trying twice more to overturn the Israeli self-determination.

What makes anyone think that the Arab League and Arab Palestinians have not been acting vindictively for more than seven decades.  What makes anyone think that, not unlike the acts of a chronic juvenile delinquent, the Arab Palestinians have not been intentionally causing disturbances and furthering violence --- then trying to blame it entirely on the Jewish People.

Finally, no matter the complaint to be made by the Arab Palestinian, what gives the Arab Palestinians the right to create the chaos they have_ (attack on the Olympic Team, various aircraft hijackings, numberous suicide bombings, the takeover of a cruise liner, kidnappings, murder, indiscriminant attacks against civilian establishments and conveyances, etc, etc, ect)_ and have the audacity to claim that they have every right to intentionally target civilians. To argue that it is entirely legal under the Rule of Law that they be permited to engage in Criminal Acts directed against a State with the intention of - or calculated to - cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do _(or to abstain from doing)_ some act that furthers the criminal objective.

And that is just a thumbnail descriptions of the character of the Arab Palestinians.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  et al,

Be very careful here.



P F Tinmore said:


> Immigrating Jews could get Palestinian citizenship. Until then they were not Palestinians.


*(COMMENT)*

This is an intentional misrepresentation of the facts.  The "Palestine" here is not a Government that the Arab Palestinian maintained.

"From 1922 until the present day (1947), the High Commissioner has governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.  The Arabs of Palestine rejected any part in the establishment of self-governing institutions.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.


Indeed, they fought Israeli troops in Palestine. Nobody attacked Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  et al,
> 
> Be very careful here.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Immigrating Jews could get Palestinian citizenship. Until then they were not Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is an intentional misrepresentation of the facts.  The "Palestine" here is not a Government that the Arab Palestinian maintained.
> 
> "From 1922 until the present day (1947), the High Commissioner has governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.  The Arabs of Palestine rejected any part in the establishment of self-governing institutions.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

So? What does that have to do with my post?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, they fought Israeli troops in Palestine. Nobody attacked Israel.
Click to expand...

First attack was on a Jewish village of Yehiam in the Arab part of the partition.
There were no troops, the Brits had to respond first before Israeli forces arrived.

This was their emblem...the goal was prevention of Jewish independence in any part of the land, annihilation of the Jewish nation and total Arab domination of the middle east.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan.


There was no allotted territory.

Israel was proclaimed by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Israel's "permanent population" was recently imported foreign settlers who did not immigrate into the Palestinian society.

The whole enterprise was funded by foreign money.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. Both the JEWISH Palestinians and the ARAB Palestinians have the right to self-determination.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians were Palestinians without distinction. There were no different groups of citizens. They were all just one people.
Click to expand...


Not true. The non-moslem dhimmis were a separate class.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OH, I don't think so*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stated in many different ways, international law has one basic. The land belongs to the people and the people belong to the land. They cannot be separated. The people are the sovereigns within their defined territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(TEACH ME • SHOW ME)*
> 
> I would like to see your reference.
> 
> Where doe it say this in the law?
> Show me a legal and enforceable citation under international law that says this.
> 
> *(JUST MY THOUGHT and OBSERVATION)*
> 
> Not all countries are the same, and so, I believe you are citing a theoretical legal concept for one form of government.
> 
> BUT, In a Kingdom or Emerat, like you find in the MENA the Government is the sovereign entity.  In most countries and in International Law, there is a difference between "sovereignty" over territory and "ownership" over territory.
> 
> Similarly, under international law, the status of sovereignty over territory and the sovereignty of a person is different.
> 
> Similarly, nationality and citizenship are criteria that are not universal from nation to nation.  And the nation is the determining factor - not the people.  If you a born in one nation, you are not automatically a citizen of other nations _(except by stipulation of domestic law)_.  International Law does not control national domestic law.   While some states have bound themselves by treaty, convention or other instruments, there are extraction and egress clauses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A DICTIONARY OF MODERN LEGAL USAGE • SECOND EDITION • Bryan A. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *sovereignty:*  It has three primary senses:
> 
> (1) “supreme dominion, authority, or rule”;
> (2) “the position, rank, or control of a supreme ruler, such as a monarch, or controlling power, such as a democratically formed government”; or
> (3) “territory under the rule of a sovereign, or existing as an independent state.”​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ethnic cleansing is illegal.
> 
> Acquiring territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Where is your confusion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You should have advised the combined Arab-Islamist armies of that.
> 
> Are you confused?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should have advised the combined Arab-Islamist armies of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of them were at war with Palestine.
Click to expand...


Yes they were.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan.
> 
> 
> 
> There was no allotted territory.
> 
> Israel was proclaimed by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Israel's "permanent population" was recently imported foreign settlers who did not immigrate into the Palestinian society.
> 
> The whole enterprise was funded by foreign money.
Click to expand...


And so was the non-Jewish population, which by the way spoke much more foreign languages,
and was at a continuous tribal war. So were the feudal nobility that received the foreign currency as the Empire that issued the local currency fell.

You're using the term "foreign" selectively by ethnic criteria.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan.
> 
> 
> 
> There was no allotted territory.
> 
> Israel was proclaimed by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Israel's "permanent population" was recently imported foreign settlers who did not immigrate into the Palestinian society.
> 
> The whole enterprise was funded by foreign money.
Click to expand...


Indeed, as foreign, absentee land owners from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon controlled large portions of the land in your “Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally’land”. 

Much of the Islamist enterprise was funded by foreign money.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. Both the JEWISH Palestinians and the ARAB Palestinians have the right to self-determination.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians were Palestinians without distinction. There were no different groups of citizens. They were all just one people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not true. The non-moslem dhimmis were a separate class.
Click to expand...

link?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore 

You claim that immigrating Jews obtained Palestinian citizenship.  This was true from 1924 onwards.  The Jewish people living in the territory of Palestine in 1948, then, according to your own argument, were Palestinian citizens.  When the five Arab armies attacked -- they were attacking the citizens of Palestine (but only the Jewish ones).  The Arab citizens of Palestine also attacked the citizens of Palestine (but only the Jewish ones).  

That makes the war of 1948 a civil war between citizens of Palestine as well as an international war between sovereigns, according to your own argument.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore
> 
> You claim that immigrating Jews obtained Palestinian citizenship.  This was true from 1924 onwards.  The Jewish people living in the territory of Palestine in 1948, then, according to your own argument, were Palestinian citizens.  When the five Arab armies attacked -- they were attacking the citizens of Palestine (but only the Jewish ones).  The Arab citizens of Palestine also attacked the citizens of Palestine (but only the Jewish ones).
> 
> That makes the war of 1948 a civil war between citizens of Palestine as well as an international war between sovereigns, according to your own argument.


That depends on how you define immigrant.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, et al,

Here we go again, with the use of ambiguously defined terminology.

Immigrants or non-immigrants makes no difference.  International humanitarian law (IHL) distinguishes two types of armed conflicts, namely: 

◈  international Armed Conflicts (IAC), opposing two or more States, and 

◈  Non-International Armed Conflicts (NIAC), between governmental forces and non-governmental armed groups, or between such groups only. ​IHL treaty law also establishes a distinction between NAICs in the meaning of common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 _(In the case of armed conflict not of an international character)_ and IACs falling within the definition provided in Article 1 of Additional Protocol II _(shall apply to all armed conflicts which are not covered by Article 1)_.

The term "Civil War" is a layman's description for a classic condition.  It is immune to "Type I Tinmore" manipulation.



P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F TinmoreThat makes the war of 1948 a civil war between citizens of Palestine as well as an international war between sovereigns, according to your own argument.
> 
> 
> 
> That depends on how you define immigrant.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

On 15 May 1948, the dilemma in categorizing the Jewish People was settled.  They were neither Palestinian or Immigrant.  They were Israeli citizens.  The became Israeli Citizens under Article I UN Charter and on the recommendation by the UN through A/RES/ 181 (II), declared Independence through the right of self-determination.

On the act of aggression by the Arab League, the conflict was between one nation (Israel) against many nations (Arab League).  That would, in today's terminology be an IAC _(opposing two or more States)_.  In 1948 terminology, it was just a plain old "war" _(nations in conflict)_.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, et al,
> 
> Here we go again, with the use of ambiguously defined terminology.
> 
> Immigrants or non-immigrants makes no difference.  International humanitarian law (IHL) distinguishes two types of armed conflicts, namely:
> 
> ◈  international Armed Conflicts (IAC), opposing two or more States, and
> 
> ◈  Non-International Armed Conflicts (NIAC), between governmental forces and non-governmental armed groups, or between such groups only.​IHL treaty law also establishes a distinction between NAICs in the meaning of common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 _(In the case of armed conflict not of an international character)_ and IACs falling within the definition provided in Article 1 of Additional Protocol II _(shall apply to all armed conflicts which are not covered by Article 1)_.
> 
> The term "Civil War" is a layman's description for a classic condition.  It is immune to "Type I Tinmore" manipulation.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F TinmoreThat makes the war of 1948 a civil war between citizens of Palestine as well as an international war between sovereigns, according to your own argument.
> 
> 
> 
> That depends on how you define immigrant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> On 15 May 1948, the dilemma in categorizing the Jewish People was settled.  They were neither Palestinian or Immigrant.  They were Israeli citizens.  The became Israeli Citizens under Article I UN Charter and on the recommendation by the UN through A/RES/ 181 (II), declared Independence through the right of self-determination.
> 
> On the act of aggression by the Arab League, the conflict was between one nation (Israel) against many nations (Arab League).  That would, in today's terminology be an IAC _(opposing two or more States)_.  In 1948 terminology, it was just a plain old "war" _(nations in conflict)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> Israel was proclaimed by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Israel's "permanent population" was recently imported foreign settlers who did not immigrate into the Palestinian society.
> 
> The whole enterprise was funded by foreign money.


Israel was a foreign invasion of Palestine.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

It was the intention of the Allied Powers to implement the Balfour Declaration and to establish a Jewish National Home in Palestine.



P F Tinmore said:


> The whole enterprise was funded by foreign money.
> Israel was a foreign invasion of Palestine.


*(COMMENT)*

How the venture is funded was a complex matter.  The British Foreign Office provided the lions share of the budget, administered by the High Commissioner.  However Zionist funding did help.  See the Economic Affairs section _(simply as an example)_.

❖  12/31/1927  Mandate 1927 Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations •​The general mistake you make is in the understanding that the Zionist Organization _(alla Munich at that time)_ had to approve and sponsor the Jewish Agency in Palestine.



			
				Written By: The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica said:
			
		

> *Jewish Agency*, in full* Jewish Agency Of Israel, *Hebrew *Ha-sokhnut Ha-yehudit El-eretz Yisraʾel*, international body representing the World Zionist Organization, created in 1929 by Chaim Weizmann, with headquarters in Jerusalem. Its purpose is to assist and encourage Jews worldwide to help develop and settle Israel.
> 
> Zionists needed financial backing for their project of creating a Jewish national home in Palestine. The Jewish Agency became an external arm of the Zionists, seeking to elicit aid from non-Zionist Jews, overseeing the settlement of Jewish immigrants in Palestine, and helping set up a Jewish economy.



Your implication that "foreign money" somehow taints the Jewish National Home the organization was largely inaccurate.  After all, the Arab Palestinians cannot maintain their _(Ramallah and Gaza)_  governmental functions and operations without huge foreign donations.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> It was the intention of the Allied Powers to implement the Balfour Declaration and to establish a Jewish National Home in Palestine.


Cool euphemism for foreign settler colonialism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> After all, the Arab Palestinians cannot maintain their _(Ramallah and Gaza)_ governmental functions and operations without huge foreign donations.


The Palestinians did not need aid until the Zionists stole, bombed, and bulldozed all their stuff.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

The Arab Palestinians, unable to successfully engage on a political level, have several mantras → with one of the more often used excuses is "colonialism."  They just cannot grasp the intention of the Allied Powers and the need for a National Home for the Jewish People.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was the intention of the Allied Powers to implement the Balfour Declaration and to establish a Jewish National Home in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Cool euphemism for foreign settler colonialism.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The consistent whining by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) for every minute since the San Remo Convention, constant bickering with the Jewish Community, their inability to work cooperatively with the High Commissioner on the establishing self-governing institutions → was one long series of mistakes placing the a greater and greater distance between the successes of the Jewish Community and the failures of the Arab Community.  It set the conditions for a cascade political failure from which, after a century, they could not recover.  The HoAP have consistently had to cry on the shoulder of other Arab nation because they could not stand on their own or make any significant progress towards the development of their nation.

That is just how I see it, as do so many others.

Right now, the supporting Arab League nations, most of which are also behind Israel in terms of their Human Development, are on the road towards being the long-term care donors for the Palestinians.   

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The Arab Palestinians, unable to successfully engage on a political level, have several mantras → with one of the more often used excuses is "colonialism."  They just cannot grasp the intention of the Allied Powers and the need for a National Home for the Jewish People.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was the intention of the Allied Powers to implement the Balfour Declaration and to establish a Jewish National Home in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Cool euphemism for foreign settler colonialism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The consistent whining by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) for every minute since the San Remo Convention, constant bickering with the Jewish Community, their inability to work cooperatively with the High Commissioner on the establishing self-governing institutions → was one long series of mistakes placing the a greater and greater distance between the successes of the Jewish Community and the failures of the Arab Community.  It set the conditions for a cascade political failure from which, after a century, they could not recover.  The HoAP have consistently had to cry on the shoulder of other Arab nation because they could not stand on their own or make any significant progress towards the development of their nation.
> 
> That is just how I see it, as do so many others.
> 
> Right now, the supporting Arab League nations, most of which are also behind Israel in terms of their Human Development, are on the road towards being the long-term care donors for the Palestinians.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> constant bickering with the Jewish Community, their inability to work cooperatively with the High Commissioner on the establishing self-governing institutions


There was not going to be any self governance in a settler colonial setting. The plan was (and still is) to move the Palestinians out and the settlers in.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gaza border protest cancelled due to high temperatures, Ramadan fast


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Palestinian Arab media today are missing something that was in every Friday for over a year: reports on the weekly Gaza "Great Return March."

There are no protests today.

If they were popular protests, then people would come anyway, wouldn't they?

All this proves is that Hamas is behind the protests. They provide the logistics, the transportation, probably the tires to burn. They position who approaches the fence and who stays behind.

A terror group is behind every aspect of the "popular, peaceful" protests.

(full article online)

No protests in Gaza today. I guess the people decided on their own not to show up. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> You claim that immigrating Jews obtained Palestinian citizenship.  This was true from 1924 onwards.  The Jewish people living in the territory of Palestine in 1948, then, according to your own argument, were Palestinian citizens.  When the five Arab armies attacked -- they were attacking the citizens of Palestine (but only the Jewish ones).  The Arab citizens of Palestine also attacked the citizens of Palestine (but only the Jewish ones).
> 
> That makes the war of 1948 a civil war between citizens of Palestine as well as an international war between sovereigns, according to your own argument.
> 
> 
> 
> That depends on how you define immigrant.
Click to expand...


I define it the usual way. The accepted way. 

You have a new definition of immigrant twisted for your purposes of denying rights to the Jewish people?  A people which, btw, you just agreed have legal right to settle the land.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was the intention of the Allied Powers to implement the Balfour Declaration and to establish a Jewish National Home in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Cool euphemism for foreign settler colonialism.
Click to expand...


Once again you completely ignore the point of a Jewish National Home created based on the existing right of the Jewish people to return to their homeland. 

You are a hypocrite if you support a return for the Arabs and all their descendants and don’t support the same for the Jewish people. 

The rights are collective rights.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

We are talking about a time period just over a century-long; if you start the clock with the Balfour Declaration.  And in that 100 year period, there were all kinds of exchange in views → as to the various perspectives.

BUT, in the framework of the Mandate that was agreed upon by the Allied Powers, the Jewish Agency _(a World Zionist Executive)_ was formally recognized as a "public body."  And it was through the interpretation of this language that the Jewish Agency derived international legitimacy and diplomatic representation before the League of Nations.  And it was precisely the lack of embrionic‐state and progress towards self-governing institutions, that the Palestinians become at a disadvantage in the ability to effectively influence public opinion anywhere in the world.  This was compounded, in 1923, by the fact that the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) rejected, for a third time, the proposed creation of an Arab Agency to bring the AHC up to the same functional level similar → to the Zionist Executive _(the Jewish Agency)_.  Of course, by rejecting the offer made by the first High Commissioner of Palestine _(Herbert Samuel)_, the AHC irreparably crippled the Palestinian interest.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> constant bickering with the Jewish Community, their inability to work cooperatively with the High Commissioner on the establishing self-governing institutions
> 
> 
> 
> There was not going to be any self-governance in a settler colonial setting. The plan was (and still is) to move the Palestinians out and the settlers in.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Your interpretation is entirely wrong, as wrong as the decisions that continued to compound self-inflicted political wounds that retarded the establishment of quasi-self-governing institutions to balance the equations with the Jewish Agency.  

The idea that displacement of Arab Palestinians is a condition set upon themselves.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) made it imperative for the Israelis to institute rear area security measures in order to protect themselves from an internal security problems well behind the FEBA.

The more the HoAP crippled themselves, the more they tried to blame their weaknesses and failures on the Israelis.  With them, the Arab Palestinians always blame someone else.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> We are talking about a time period just over a century-long; if you start the clock with the Balfour Declaration.  And in that 100 year period, there were all kinds of exchange in views → as to the various perspectives.
> 
> BUT, in the framework of the Mandate that was agreed upon by the Allied Powers, the Jewish Agency _(a World Zionist Executive)_ was formally recognized as a "public body."  And it was through the interpretation of this language that the Jewish Agency derived international legitimacy and diplomatic representation before the League of Nations.  And it was precisely the lack of embrionic‐state and progress towards self-governing institutions, that the Palestinians become at a disadvantage in the ability to effectively influence public opinion anywhere in the world.  This was compounded, in 1923, by the fact that the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) rejected, for a third time, the proposed creation of an Arab Agency to bring the AHC up to the same functional level similar → to the Zionist Executive _(the Jewish Agency)_.  Of course, by rejecting the offer made by the first High Commissioner of Palestine _(Herbert Samuel)_, the AHC irreparably crippled the Palestinian interest.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> constant bickering with the Jewish Community, their inability to work cooperatively with the High Commissioner on the establishing self-governing institutions
> 
> 
> 
> There was not going to be any self-governance in a settler colonial setting. The plan was (and still is) to move the Palestinians out and the settlers in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your interpretation is entirely wrong, as wrong as the decisions that continued to compound self-inflicted political wounds that retarded the establishment of quasi-self-governing institutions to balance the equations with the Jewish Agency.
> 
> The idea that displacement of Arab Palestinians is a condition set upon themselves.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) made it imperative for the Israelis to institute rear area security measures in order to protect themselves from an internal security problems well behind the FEBA.
> 
> The more the HoAP crippled themselves, the more they tried to blame their weaknesses and failures on the Israelis.  With them, the Arab Palestinians always blame someone else.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The drive of political zionism to establish a *settler State* in Palestine was met by violent resistance from the Palestinians, and this situation simmered until it boiled over in 1936.
-------------
The King-Crane Commission had reported that *Jewish colonists* were planning a radical transformation of Palestine:


"The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission's conference with Jewish representatives, that the Zionists looked forward to a *practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine,* by various forms of purchase". 67/
Similarly, a number of Jewish organizations such as the *Colonisation Department of the Zionist Organization, *financed by the Keren ha-Yesod, were actively engaged in acquisition of land both for individual immigrant families as well as for the Yishuv or *Jewish settlements.* Several of these organizations had been operating since the nineteenth century, notably the *Palestine Jewish Colonisation Association (PICA)*. *
---------
"(e) The Agency shall promote agricultural colonization based on Jewish labour ... it shall be deemed to be a matter of principle that Jewish labour shall be employed ..."
---------------
The report noted in the strongest terms the effect on indigenous Palestinians of Zionist policies.


"The effect of the *Zionist colonization *policy on the Arab. Actually the result of the purchase of land in Palestine by the Jewish National Fund has been that land has been extraterritorialized. It ceases to be land from which the Arab can gain any advantage either now or at any time in the future. Not only can he never hope to lease or to cultivate it, but, by the stringent provisions of the lease of the Jewish National Fund, he is deprived for ever from employment on that land.
The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem Part I: 1917-1947 - Study (30 June 1978)

And you keep saying that it is not a settler colonial project. One that continues today.


The protests reject that policy.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

FIRST:  I should point out that I did not use the terminology "colonialism" - or - "colonization."  I know from previous encounters that you have trouble with these words.

I think that I have spoken to this issue before.  Let me try one more time.




There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with the Allied Powers opening up Article 16 territories for immigration and "colonization" assuming that just compensation is made to property owners.  Which you admit is being done in your example.  It is the action of appropriating a place or domain for one's own use.  Or, as you say below, "various forms of purchase."  Once I purchase land from you (free and clear), thereafter it is mine, not yours.

That is a much different thing from domination policy of foreign expansionism or → "colonialism."

Second:  While you may try to convey the idea that there is something inherently evil about "colonization" that is accomplished "by various forms of purchase" _(King-Crane Commission (KCC) Report)_ → there is not evil.  It should be noted that the KCC will turn 100 years old this year, implying that the views expressed and the conduct of the survey itself need to be reflected in any interpretation.  That would include the idea that the San Remo Convention implied a "radical transformation" in Palestine with the creation of a Jewish National Home.  The radical transformation was intended to express a positive change in the future.


P F Tinmore said:


> The King-Crane Commission had reported that *Jewish colonists* were planning a radical transformation of Palestine:
> 
> 
> "The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission's conference with Jewish representatives, that the Zionists looked forward to a *practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine,* by various forms of purchase". 67/
> 
> ---------
> "(e) The Agency shall promote agricultural colonization based on Jewish labor... it shall be deemed to be a matter of principle that Jewish labor shall be employed ..."
> ---------------
> The report noted in the strongest terms the effect on indigenous Palestinians of Zionist policies.
> 
> 
> "The effect of the *Zionist colonization *policy on the Arab. Actually the result of the purchase of land in Palestine by the Jewish National Fund has been that land has been extraterritorialized. It ceases to be land from which the Arab can gain any advantage either now or at any time in the future. Not only can he never hope to lease or to cultivate it, but, by the stringent provisions of the lease of the Jewish National Fund, he is deprived for ever from employment on that land.
> The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem Part I: 1917-1947 - Study (30 June 1978)
> 
> And you keep saying that it is not a settler colonial project. One that continues today.
> 
> 
> The protests reject that policy.


*(COMMENT)*

At the outset, I would like to remind everyone that the entire series (4 Volumes) of the Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem was _Prepared for, and under the guidance of the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights for the Palestinian People (CEIRPP) i_s part and parcel an entity of the UN Division for Palestinian Rights (DPR).  The CEIRPP/DPR is the official drum beater for the Palestinian People and commemorating the adoption by the Assembly, on 29 November 1947, of A/RES/181 (II), which provided for the partition of Palestine into two States. (See: *UN LINK*) The  CEIRPP/DPR mission is to achievement the cooperation (regionally and globally) in the establishment of a Two-State solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Not that I know anything,
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> We are talking about a time period just over a century-long; if you start the clock with the Balfour Declaration.  And in that 100 year period, there were all kinds of exchange in views → as to the various perspectives.
> 
> BUT, in the framework of the Mandate that was agreed upon by the Allied Powers, the Jewish Agency _(a World Zionist Executive)_ was formally recognized as a "public body."  And it was through the interpretation of this language that the Jewish Agency derived international legitimacy and diplomatic representation before the League of Nations.  And it was precisely the lack of embrionic‐state and progress towards self-governing institutions, that the Palestinians become at a disadvantage in the ability to effectively influence public opinion anywhere in the world.  This was compounded, in 1923, by the fact that the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) rejected, for a third time, the proposed creation of an Arab Agency to bring the AHC up to the same functional level similar → to the Zionist Executive _(the Jewish Agency)_.  Of course, by rejecting the offer made by the first High Commissioner of Palestine _(Herbert Samuel)_, the AHC irreparably crippled the Palestinian interest.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> constant bickering with the Jewish Community, their inability to work cooperatively with the High Commissioner on the establishing self-governing institutions
> 
> 
> 
> There was not going to be any self-governance in a settler colonial setting. The plan was (and still is) to move the Palestinians out and the settlers in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your interpretation is entirely wrong, as wrong as the decisions that continued to compound self-inflicted political wounds that retarded the establishment of quasi-self-governing institutions to balance the equations with the Jewish Agency.
> 
> The idea that displacement of Arab Palestinians is a condition set upon themselves.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) made it imperative for the Israelis to institute rear area security measures in order to protect themselves from an internal security problems well behind the FEBA.
> 
> The more the HoAP crippled themselves, the more they tried to blame their weaknesses and failures on the Israelis.  With them, the Arab Palestinians always blame someone else.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The drive of political zionism to establish a *settler State* in Palestine was met by violent resistance from the Palestinians, and this situation simmered until it boiled over in 1936.
> -------------
> The King-Crane Commission had reported that *Jewish colonists* were planning a radical transformation of Palestine:
> 
> 
> "The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission's conference with Jewish representatives, that the Zionists looked forward to a *practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine,* by various forms of purchase". 67/
> Similarly, a number of Jewish organizations such as the *Colonisation Department of the Zionist Organization, *financed by the Keren ha-Yesod, were actively engaged in acquisition of land both for individual immigrant families as well as for the Yishuv or *Jewish settlements.* Several of these organizations had been operating since the nineteenth century, notably the *Palestine Jewish Colonisation Association (PICA)*. *
> ---------
> "(e) The Agency shall promote agricultural colonization based on Jewish labour ... it shall be deemed to be a matter of principle that Jewish labour shall be employed ..."
> ---------------
> The report noted in the strongest terms the effect on indigenous Palestinians of Zionist policies.
> 
> 
> "The effect of the *Zionist colonization *policy on the Arab. Actually the result of the purchase of land in Palestine by the Jewish National Fund has been that land has been extraterritorialized. It ceases to be land from which the Arab can gain any advantage either now or at any time in the future. Not only can he never hope to lease or to cultivate it, but, by the stringent provisions of the lease of the Jewish National Fund, he is deprived for ever from employment on that land.
> The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem Part I: 1917-1947 - Study (30 June 1978)
> 
> And you keep saying that it is not a settler colonial project. One that continues today.
> 
> 
> The protests reject that policy.
Click to expand...


That long cut and paste demonstrates the rage that grips you at the existence of Israel and your insensate Jew hatreds. 

You demonstrate a real pathology.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> We are talking about a time period just over a century-long; if you start the clock with the Balfour Declaration.  And in that 100 year period, there were all kinds of exchange in views → as to the various perspectives.
> 
> BUT, in the framework of the Mandate that was agreed upon by the Allied Powers, the Jewish Agency _(a World Zionist Executive)_ was formally recognized as a "public body."  And it was through the interpretation of this language that the Jewish Agency derived international legitimacy and diplomatic representation before the League of Nations.  And it was precisely the lack of embrionic‐state and progress towards self-governing institutions, that the Palestinians become at a disadvantage in the ability to effectively influence public opinion anywhere in the world.  This was compounded, in 1923, by the fact that the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) rejected, for a third time, the proposed creation of an Arab Agency to bring the AHC up to the same functional level similar → to the Zionist Executive _(the Jewish Agency)_.  Of course, by rejecting the offer made by the first High Commissioner of Palestine _(Herbert Samuel)_, the AHC irreparably crippled the Palestinian interest.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> constant bickering with the Jewish Community, their inability to work cooperatively with the High Commissioner on the establishing self-governing institutions
> 
> 
> 
> There was not going to be any self-governance in a settler colonial setting. The plan was (and still is) to move the Palestinians out and the settlers in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your interpretation is entirely wrong, as wrong as the decisions that continued to compound self-inflicted political wounds that retarded the establishment of quasi-self-governing institutions to balance the equations with the Jewish Agency.
> 
> The idea that displacement of Arab Palestinians is a condition set upon themselves.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) made it imperative for the Israelis to institute rear area security measures in order to protect themselves from an internal security problems well behind the FEBA.
> 
> The more the HoAP crippled themselves, the more they tried to blame their weaknesses and failures on the Israelis.  With them, the Arab Palestinians always blame someone else.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The drive of political zionism to establish a *settler State* in Palestine was met by violent resistance from the Palestinians, and this situation simmered until it boiled over in 1936.
> -------------
> The King-Crane Commission had reported that *Jewish colonists* were planning a radical transformation of Palestine:
> 
> 
> "The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission's conference with Jewish representatives, that the Zionists looked forward to a *practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine,* by various forms of purchase". 67/
> Similarly, a number of Jewish organizations such as the *Colonisation Department of the Zionist Organization, *financed by the Keren ha-Yesod, were actively engaged in acquisition of land both for individual immigrant families as well as for the Yishuv or *Jewish settlements.* Several of these organizations had been operating since the nineteenth century, notably the *Palestine Jewish Colonisation Association (PICA)*. *
> ---------
> "(e) The Agency shall promote agricultural colonization based on Jewish labour ... it shall be deemed to be a matter of principle that Jewish labour shall be employed ..."
> ---------------
> The report noted in the strongest terms the effect on indigenous Palestinians of Zionist policies.
> 
> 
> "The effect of the *Zionist colonization *policy on the Arab. Actually the result of the purchase of land in Palestine by the Jewish National Fund has been that land has been extraterritorialized. It ceases to be land from which the Arab can gain any advantage either now or at any time in the future. Not only can he never hope to lease or to cultivate it, but, by the stringent provisions of the lease of the Jewish National Fund, he is deprived for ever from employment on that land.
> The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem Part I: 1917-1947 - Study (30 June 1978)
> 
> And you keep saying that it is not a settler colonial project. One that continues today.
> 
> 
> The protests reject that policy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That long cut and paste demonstrates the rage that grips you at the existence of Israel and your insensate Jew hatreds.
> 
> You demonstrate a real pathology.
Click to expand...


With each You Tube posting he gets more desperate. I am starting to miss the one where the Hasidic Jews wish for Israels destruction. I enjoy it


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> FIRST:  I should point out that I did not use the terminology "colonialism" - or - "colonization."  I know from previous encounters that you have trouble with these words.
> 
> I think that I have spoken to this issue before.  Let me try one more time.
> 
> View attachment 261326
> 
> 
> There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with the Allied Powers opening up Article 16 territories for immigration and "colonization" assuming that just compensation is made to property owners.  Which you admit is being done in your example.  It is the action of appropriating a place or domain for one's own use.  Or, as you say below, "various forms of purchase."  Once I purchase land from you (free and clear), thereafter it is mine, not yours.
> 
> That is a much different thing from domination policy of foreign expansionism or → "colonialism."
> 
> Second:  While you may try to convey the idea that there is something inherently evil about "colonization" that is accomplished "by various forms of purchase" _(King-Crane Commission (KCC) Report)_ → there is not evil.  It should be noted that the KCC will turn 100 years old this year, implying that the views expressed and the conduct of the survey itself need to be reflected in any interpretation.  That would include the idea that the San Remo Convention implied a "radical transformation" in Palestine with the creation of a Jewish National Home.  The radical transformation was intended to express a positive change in the future.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The King-Crane Commission had reported that *Jewish colonists* were planning a radical transformation of Palestine:
> 
> 
> "The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission's conference with Jewish representatives, that the Zionists looked forward to a *practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine,* by various forms of purchase". 67/
> 
> ---------
> "(e) The Agency shall promote agricultural colonization based on Jewish labor... it shall be deemed to be a matter of principle that Jewish labor shall be employed ..."
> ---------------
> The report noted in the strongest terms the effect on indigenous Palestinians of Zionist policies.
> 
> 
> "The effect of the *Zionist colonization *policy on the Arab. Actually the result of the purchase of land in Palestine by the Jewish National Fund has been that land has been extraterritorialized. It ceases to be land from which the Arab can gain any advantage either now or at any time in the future. Not only can he never hope to lease or to cultivate it, but, by the stringent provisions of the lease of the Jewish National Fund, he is deprived for ever from employment on that land.
> The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem Part I: 1917-1947 - Study (30 June 1978)
> 
> And you keep saying that it is not a settler colonial project. One that continues today.
> 
> 
> The protests reject that policy.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> At the outset, I would like to remind everyone that the entire series (4 Volumes) of the Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem was _Prepared for, and under the guidance of the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights for the Palestinian People (CEIRPP) i_s part and parcel an entity of the UN Division for Palestinian Rights (DPR).  The CEIRPP/DPR is the official drum beater for the Palestinian People and commemorating the adoption by the Assembly, on 29 November 1947, of A/RES/181 (II), which provided for the partition of Palestine into two States. (See: *UN LINK*) The  CEIRPP/DPR mission is to achievement the cooperation (regionally and globally) in the establishment of a Two-State solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
> 
> Not that I know anything,
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Uhhh, OK.


----------



## Mindful

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> We are talking about a time period just over a century-long; if you start the clock with the Balfour Declaration.  And in that 100 year period, there were all kinds of exchange in views → as to the various perspectives.
> 
> BUT, in the framework of the Mandate that was agreed upon by the Allied Powers, the Jewish Agency _(a World Zionist Executive)_ was formally recognized as a "public body."  And it was through the interpretation of this language that the Jewish Agency derived international legitimacy and diplomatic representation before the League of Nations.  And it was precisely the lack of embrionic‐state and progress towards self-governing institutions, that the Palestinians become at a disadvantage in the ability to effectively influence public opinion anywhere in the world.  This was compounded, in 1923, by the fact that the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) rejected, for a third time, the proposed creation of an Arab Agency to bring the AHC up to the same functional level similar → to the Zionist Executive _(the Jewish Agency)_.  Of course, by rejecting the offer made by the first High Commissioner of Palestine _(Herbert Samuel)_, the AHC irreparably crippled the Palestinian interest.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> constant bickering with the Jewish Community, their inability to work cooperatively with the High Commissioner on the establishing self-governing institutions
> 
> 
> 
> There was not going to be any self-governance in a settler colonial setting. The plan was (and still is) to move the Palestinians out and the settlers in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your interpretation is entirely wrong, as wrong as the decisions that continued to compound self-inflicted political wounds that retarded the establishment of quasi-self-governing institutions to balance the equations with the Jewish Agency.
> 
> The idea that displacement of Arab Palestinians is a condition set upon themselves.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) made it imperative for the Israelis to institute rear area security measures in order to protect themselves from an internal security problems well behind the FEBA.
> 
> The more the HoAP crippled themselves, the more they tried to blame their weaknesses and failures on the Israelis.  With them, the Arab Palestinians always blame someone else.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The drive of political zionism to establish a *settler State* in Palestine was met by violent resistance from the Palestinians, and this situation simmered until it boiled over in 1936.
> -------------
> The King-Crane Commission had reported that *Jewish colonists* were planning a radical transformation of Palestine:
> 
> 
> "The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission's conference with Jewish representatives, that the Zionists looked forward to a *practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine,* by various forms of purchase". 67/
> Similarly, a number of Jewish organizations such as the *Colonisation Department of the Zionist Organization, *financed by the Keren ha-Yesod, were actively engaged in acquisition of land both for individual immigrant families as well as for the Yishuv or *Jewish settlements.* Several of these organizations had been operating since the nineteenth century, notably the *Palestine Jewish Colonisation Association (PICA)*. *
> ---------
> "(e) The Agency shall promote agricultural colonization based on Jewish labour ... it shall be deemed to be a matter of principle that Jewish labour shall be employed ..."
> ---------------
> The report noted in the strongest terms the effect on indigenous Palestinians of Zionist policies.
> 
> 
> "The effect of the *Zionist colonization *policy on the Arab. Actually the result of the purchase of land in Palestine by the Jewish National Fund has been that land has been extraterritorialized. It ceases to be land from which the Arab can gain any advantage either now or at any time in the future. Not only can he never hope to lease or to cultivate it, but, by the stringent provisions of the lease of the Jewish National Fund, he is deprived for ever from employment on that land.
> The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem Part I: 1917-1947 - Study (30 June 1978)
> 
> And you keep saying that it is not a settler colonial project. One that continues today.
> 
> 
> The protests reject that policy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That long cut and paste demonstrates the rage that grips you at the existence of Israel and your insensate Jew hatreds.
> 
> You demonstrate a real pathology.
Click to expand...


If he could just be honest, and say he has a 'thing'  for Jews.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Mindful said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> We are talking about a time period just over a century-long; if you start the clock with the Balfour Declaration.  And in that 100 year period, there were all kinds of exchange in views → as to the various perspectives.
> 
> BUT, in the framework of the Mandate that was agreed upon by the Allied Powers, the Jewish Agency _(a World Zionist Executive)_ was formally recognized as a "public body."  And it was through the interpretation of this language that the Jewish Agency derived international legitimacy and diplomatic representation before the League of Nations.  And it was precisely the lack of embrionic‐state and progress towards self-governing institutions, that the Palestinians become at a disadvantage in the ability to effectively influence public opinion anywhere in the world.  This was compounded, in 1923, by the fact that the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) rejected, for a third time, the proposed creation of an Arab Agency to bring the AHC up to the same functional level similar → to the Zionist Executive _(the Jewish Agency)_.  Of course, by rejecting the offer made by the first High Commissioner of Palestine _(Herbert Samuel)_, the AHC irreparably crippled the Palestinian interest.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> constant bickering with the Jewish Community, their inability to work cooperatively with the High Commissioner on the establishing self-governing institutions
> 
> 
> 
> There was not going to be any self-governance in a settler colonial setting. The plan was (and still is) to move the Palestinians out and the settlers in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your interpretation is entirely wrong, as wrong as the decisions that continued to compound self-inflicted political wounds that retarded the establishment of quasi-self-governing institutions to balance the equations with the Jewish Agency.
> 
> The idea that displacement of Arab Palestinians is a condition set upon themselves.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) made it imperative for the Israelis to institute rear area security measures in order to protect themselves from an internal security problems well behind the FEBA.
> 
> The more the HoAP crippled themselves, the more they tried to blame their weaknesses and failures on the Israelis.  With them, the Arab Palestinians always blame someone else.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The drive of political zionism to establish a *settler State* in Palestine was met by violent resistance from the Palestinians, and this situation simmered until it boiled over in 1936.
> -------------
> The King-Crane Commission had reported that *Jewish colonists* were planning a radical transformation of Palestine:
> 
> 
> "The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission's conference with Jewish representatives, that the Zionists looked forward to a *practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine,* by various forms of purchase". 67/
> Similarly, a number of Jewish organizations such as the *Colonisation Department of the Zionist Organization, *financed by the Keren ha-Yesod, were actively engaged in acquisition of land both for individual immigrant families as well as for the Yishuv or *Jewish settlements.* Several of these organizations had been operating since the nineteenth century, notably the *Palestine Jewish Colonisation Association (PICA)*. *
> ---------
> "(e) The Agency shall promote agricultural colonization based on Jewish labour ... it shall be deemed to be a matter of principle that Jewish labour shall be employed ..."
> ---------------
> The report noted in the strongest terms the effect on indigenous Palestinians of Zionist policies.
> 
> 
> "The effect of the *Zionist colonization *policy on the Arab. Actually the result of the purchase of land in Palestine by the Jewish National Fund has been that land has been extraterritorialized. It ceases to be land from which the Arab can gain any advantage either now or at any time in the future. Not only can he never hope to lease or to cultivate it, but, by the stringent provisions of the lease of the Jewish National Fund, he is deprived for ever from employment on that land.
> The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem Part I: 1917-1947 - Study (30 June 1978)
> 
> And you keep saying that it is not a settler colonial project. One that continues today.
> 
> 
> The protests reject that policy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That long cut and paste demonstrates the rage that grips you at the existence of Israel and your insensate Jew hatreds.
> 
> You demonstrate a real pathology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If he could just be honest, and say he has a 'thing'  for Jews.
Click to expand...


Jews and Israel


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> We are talking about a time period just over a century-long; if you start the clock with the Balfour Declaration.  And in that 100 year period, there were all kinds of exchange in views → as to the various perspectives.
> 
> BUT, in the framework of the Mandate that was agreed upon by the Allied Powers, the Jewish Agency _(a World Zionist Executive)_ was formally recognized as a "public body."  And it was through the interpretation of this language that the Jewish Agency derived international legitimacy and diplomatic representation before the League of Nations.  And it was precisely the lack of embrionic‐state and progress towards self-governing institutions, that the Palestinians become at a disadvantage in the ability to effectively influence public opinion anywhere in the world.  This was compounded, in 1923, by the fact that the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) rejected, for a third time, the proposed creation of an Arab Agency to bring the AHC up to the same functional level similar → to the Zionist Executive _(the Jewish Agency)_.  Of course, by rejecting the offer made by the first High Commissioner of Palestine _(Herbert Samuel)_, the AHC irreparably crippled the Palestinian interest.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> constant bickering with the Jewish Community, their inability to work cooperatively with the High Commissioner on the establishing self-governing institutions
> 
> 
> 
> There was not going to be any self-governance in a settler colonial setting. The plan was (and still is) to move the Palestinians out and the settlers in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your interpretation is entirely wrong, as wrong as the decisions that continued to compound self-inflicted political wounds that retarded the establishment of quasi-self-governing institutions to balance the equations with the Jewish Agency.
> 
> The idea that displacement of Arab Palestinians is a condition set upon themselves.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) made it imperative for the Israelis to institute rear area security measures in order to protect themselves from an internal security problems well behind the FEBA.
> 
> The more the HoAP crippled themselves, the more they tried to blame their weaknesses and failures on the Israelis.  With them, the Arab Palestinians always blame someone else.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The drive of political zionism to establish a *settler State* in Palestine was met by violent resistance from the Palestinians, and this situation simmered until it boiled over in 1936.
> -------------
> The King-Crane Commission had reported that *Jewish colonists* were planning a radical transformation of Palestine:
> 
> 
> "The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission's conference with Jewish representatives, that the Zionists looked forward to a *practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine,* by various forms of purchase". 67/
> Similarly, a number of Jewish organizations such as the *Colonisation Department of the Zionist Organization, *financed by the Keren ha-Yesod, were actively engaged in acquisition of land both for individual immigrant families as well as for the Yishuv or *Jewish settlements.* Several of these organizations had been operating since the nineteenth century, notably the *Palestine Jewish Colonisation Association (PICA)*. *
> ---------
> "(e) The Agency shall promote agricultural colonization based on Jewish labour ... it shall be deemed to be a matter of principle that Jewish labour shall be employed ..."
> ---------------
> The report noted in the strongest terms the effect on indigenous Palestinians of Zionist policies.
> 
> 
> "The effect of the *Zionist colonization *policy on the Arab. Actually the result of the purchase of land in Palestine by the Jewish National Fund has been that land has been extraterritorialized. It ceases to be land from which the Arab can gain any advantage either now or at any time in the future. Not only can he never hope to lease or to cultivate it, but, by the stringent provisions of the lease of the Jewish National Fund, he is deprived for ever from employment on that land.
> The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem Part I: 1917-1947 - Study (30 June 1978)
> 
> And you keep saying that it is not a settler colonial project. One that continues today.
> 
> 
> The protests reject that policy.
Click to expand...







Speaking of driving:


 The Hebrews were 

  driven right outta there. . . .



. . . .they just had the gumption to move back…


----------



## Sixties Fan

member said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> We are talking about a time period just over a century-long; if you start the clock with the Balfour Declaration.  And in that 100 year period, there were all kinds of exchange in views → as to the various perspectives.
> 
> BUT, in the framework of the Mandate that was agreed upon by the Allied Powers, the Jewish Agency _(a World Zionist Executive)_ was formally recognized as a "public body."  And it was through the interpretation of this language that the Jewish Agency derived international legitimacy and diplomatic representation before the League of Nations.  And it was precisely the lack of embrionic‐state and progress towards self-governing institutions, that the Palestinians become at a disadvantage in the ability to effectively influence public opinion anywhere in the world.  This was compounded, in 1923, by the fact that the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) rejected, for a third time, the proposed creation of an Arab Agency to bring the AHC up to the same functional level similar → to the Zionist Executive _(the Jewish Agency)_.  Of course, by rejecting the offer made by the first High Commissioner of Palestine _(Herbert Samuel)_, the AHC irreparably crippled the Palestinian interest.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> constant bickering with the Jewish Community, their inability to work cooperatively with the High Commissioner on the establishing self-governing institutions
> 
> 
> 
> There was not going to be any self-governance in a settler colonial setting. The plan was (and still is) to move the Palestinians out and the settlers in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your interpretation is entirely wrong, as wrong as the decisions that continued to compound self-inflicted political wounds that retarded the establishment of quasi-self-governing institutions to balance the equations with the Jewish Agency.
> 
> The idea that displacement of Arab Palestinians is a condition set upon themselves.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) made it imperative for the Israelis to institute rear area security measures in order to protect themselves from an internal security problems well behind the FEBA.
> 
> The more the HoAP crippled themselves, the more they tried to blame their weaknesses and failures on the Israelis.  With them, the Arab Palestinians always blame someone else.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The drive of political zionism to establish a *settler State* in Palestine was met by violent resistance from the Palestinians, and this situation simmered until it boiled over in 1936.
> -------------
> The King-Crane Commission had reported that *Jewish colonists* were planning a radical transformation of Palestine:
> 
> 
> "The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission's conference with Jewish representatives, that the Zionists looked forward to a *practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine,* by various forms of purchase". 67/
> Similarly, a number of Jewish organizations such as the *Colonisation Department of the Zionist Organization, *financed by the Keren ha-Yesod, were actively engaged in acquisition of land both for individual immigrant families as well as for the Yishuv or *Jewish settlements.* Several of these organizations had been operating since the nineteenth century, notably the *Palestine Jewish Colonisation Association (PICA)*. *
> ---------
> "(e) The Agency shall promote agricultural colonization based on Jewish labour ... it shall be deemed to be a matter of principle that Jewish labour shall be employed ..."
> ---------------
> The report noted in the strongest terms the effect on indigenous Palestinians of Zionist policies.
> 
> 
> "The effect of the *Zionist colonization *policy on the Arab. Actually the result of the purchase of land in Palestine by the Jewish National Fund has been that land has been extraterritorialized. It ceases to be land from which the Arab can gain any advantage either now or at any time in the future. Not only can he never hope to lease or to cultivate it, but, by the stringent provisions of the lease of the Jewish National Fund, he is deprived for ever from employment on that land.
> The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem Part I: 1917-1947 - Study (30 June 1978)
> 
> And you keep saying that it is not a settler colonial project. One that continues today.
> 
> 
> The protests reject that policy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of driving:
> 
> 
> The Hebrews were
> 
> driven right outta there. . . .
> 
> 
> 
> . . . .they just had the gumption to move back…
Click to expand...

That is what many indigenous people are doing.  Standing up for those who invaded their lands and kept them from being sovereign over it.

Hurrah for the Hebrews/Israelites/Jews/Israelis.
They regained sovereignty after 2000 years of invader oppression and are doing what those invaders were never capable, much less interested in doing.  Return Israel to the glory it once was.

Success is the best revenge against those who want to see you dead and gone, as so many Christians and Muslims are so continuing to waste their time with BDS, and attack after attack on any and all Jews they find, in Israel and around the world.

Sure.....say that the Jews are foreigners when it is the foreigner Arab/Muslims/Ottomans the ones who did not give a crap about the land.....ever !!!!

Massing endlessly against Israel to invade it?  But only when Hamas tells you to?

Wow.  That is such love for the land which was never theirs, and they have no connection with, except for Arabia.  Any other land, is simply commanded by some Muslims to "Never let go".

That is not love for the land.  That is a 2 year old who will not accept NO.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Khalid Al-Batsh, Chairman of the High Commission for Return and Breaking the Siege, said: "In order to ensure the safety of our people participating today in the activities of the 59th Friday, we send the most important message to continue the process of liberation and return ...We ask them to stay inside the covered return tents in the five camps throughout the period."

Funny how they are concerned for kids' safety from the sun but not from ricocheting bullets or tear gas.

Kids getting injured or killed by Israelis is the entire point of the riots. If they die from heatstroke it does no one any good.

(full article online)

Suddenly, Hamas pretends to care about the safety of kids at the "March of Return" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## P F Tinmore

46 Palestinians injured by Israeli gunfire in Gaza protests







GAZA, (PIC)

The Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza said that 46 protesters were injured by the Israeli occupation army's gunfire while taking part in the Great March of Return on Friday.

The ministry said that two paramedics were among the injured.

The PIC reporter said that hundreds of Palestinians marched along the eastern border of the Gaza Strip on the 61st Friday of the Great March of Return to protest Israel's plan to annex the West Bank settlements and voice rejection of the US biased policy in favor of Israel.

The Gaza Strip Palestinians on 30 March 2018 launched the Great March of Return to call for allowing the return of refugees to their lands and breaking the 13-year-long blockade on the coastal enclave.

Since the start of the border protests, the Israeli occupation army has killed 318 Gazans and injured over 31,000 others.

  Read more at 
46 Palestinians injured by Israeli gunfire in Gaza protests
 @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> 46 Palestinians injured by Israeli gunfire in Gaza protests
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GAZA, (PIC)
> 
> The Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza said that 46 protesters were injured by the Israeli occupation army's gunfire while taking part in the Great March of Return on Friday.
> 
> The ministry said that two paramedics were among the injured.
> 
> The PIC reporter said that hundreds of Palestinians marched along the eastern border of the Gaza Strip on the 61st Friday of the Great March of Return to protest Israel's plan to annex the West Bank settlements and voice rejection of the US biased policy in favor of Israel.
> 
> The Gaza Strip Palestinians on 30 March 2018 launched the Great March of Return to call for allowing the return of refugees to their lands and breaking the 13-year-long blockade on the coastal enclave.
> 
> Since the start of the border protests, the Israeli occupation army has killed 318 Gazans and injured over 31,000 others.
> 
> Read more at
> 46 Palestinians injured by Israeli gunfire in Gaza protests
> @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center



Injuries will happen in the islamic terrorist war zone.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 46 Palestinians injured by Israeli gunfire in Gaza protests
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GAZA, (PIC)
> 
> The Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza said that 46 protesters were injured by the Israeli occupation army's gunfire while taking part in the Great March of Return on Friday.
> 
> The ministry said that two paramedics were among the injured.
> 
> The PIC reporter said that hundreds of Palestinians marched along the eastern border of the Gaza Strip on the 61st Friday of the Great March of Return to protest Israel's plan to annex the West Bank settlements and voice rejection of the US biased policy in favor of Israel.
> 
> The Gaza Strip Palestinians on 30 March 2018 launched the Great March of Return to call for allowing the return of refugees to their lands and breaking the 13-year-long blockade on the coastal enclave.
> 
> Since the start of the border protests, the Israeli occupation army has killed 318 Gazans and injured over 31,000 others.
> 
> Read more at
> 46 Palestinians injured by Israeli gunfire in Gaza protests
> @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Injuries will happen in the islamic terrorist war zone.
Click to expand...

We really need a stupid post button.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 46 Palestinians injured by Israeli gunfire in Gaza protests
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GAZA, (PIC)
> 
> The Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza said that 46 protesters were injured by the Israeli occupation army's gunfire while taking part in the Great March of Return on Friday.
> 
> The ministry said that two paramedics were among the injured.
> 
> The PIC reporter said that hundreds of Palestinians marched along the eastern border of the Gaza Strip on the 61st Friday of the Great March of Return to protest Israel's plan to annex the West Bank settlements and voice rejection of the US biased policy in favor of Israel.
> 
> The Gaza Strip Palestinians on 30 March 2018 launched the Great March of Return to call for allowing the return of refugees to their lands and breaking the 13-year-long blockade on the coastal enclave.
> 
> Since the start of the border protests, the Israeli occupation army has killed 318 Gazans and injured over 31,000 others.
> 
> Read more at
> 46 Palestinians injured by Israeli gunfire in Gaza protests
> @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Injuries will happen in the islamic terrorist war zone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We really need a stupid post button.
Click to expand...


You really do use Microsoft Word™️ To make templates for your cut and paste slogans.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 46 Palestinians injured by Israeli gunfire in Gaza protests
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GAZA, (PIC)
> 
> The Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza said that 46 protesters were injured by the Israeli occupation army's gunfire while taking part in the Great March of Return on Friday.
> 
> The ministry said that two paramedics were among the injured.
> 
> The PIC reporter said that hundreds of Palestinians marched along the eastern border of the Gaza Strip on the 61st Friday of the Great March of Return to protest Israel's plan to annex the West Bank settlements and voice rejection of the US biased policy in favor of Israel.
> 
> The Gaza Strip Palestinians on 30 March 2018 launched the Great March of Return to call for allowing the return of refugees to their lands and breaking the 13-year-long blockade on the coastal enclave.
> 
> Since the start of the border protests, the Israeli occupation army has killed 318 Gazans and injured over 31,000 others.
> 
> Read more at
> 46 Palestinians injured by Israeli gunfire in Gaza protests
> @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Injuries will happen in the islamic terrorist war zone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We really need a stupid post button.
Click to expand...



Over 60 Palestinians wounded in Nakba Day protests, 9 fires along border

 I agree; We can use it on you. I love it when you and other Pro Palestinian Kool Aid Drinkers refer to the Palestinians as having " peaceful protests"


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 46 Palestinians injured by Israeli gunfire in Gaza protests
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GAZA, (PIC)
> 
> The Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza said that 46 protesters were injured by the Israeli occupation army's gunfire while taking part in the Great March of Return on Friday.
> 
> The ministry said that two paramedics were among the injured.
> 
> The PIC reporter said that hundreds of Palestinians marched along the eastern border of the Gaza Strip on the 61st Friday of the Great March of Return to protest Israel's plan to annex the West Bank settlements and voice rejection of the US biased policy in favor of Israel.
> 
> The Gaza Strip Palestinians on 30 March 2018 launched the Great March of Return to call for allowing the return of refugees to their lands and breaking the 13-year-long blockade on the coastal enclave.
> 
> Since the start of the border protests, the Israeli occupation army has killed 318 Gazans and injured over 31,000 others.
> 
> Read more at
> 46 Palestinians injured by Israeli gunfire in Gaza protests
> @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Injuries will happen in the islamic terrorist war zone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We really need a stupid post button.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Over 60 Palestinians wounded in Nakba Day protests, 9 fires along border
> 
> I agree; We can use it on you. I love it when you and other Pro Palestinian Kool Aid Drinkers refer to the Palestinians as having " peaceful protests"
Click to expand...

That is twice now that I got a virus warning at JPost.


----------



## Dan Stubbs

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'


*I guess they are going to play "thinning the herd" again.  The are as bad as the Congress in being focused and just keep charging the wire again and again. *


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border 
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

Now that is interesting.



P F Tinmore said:


> That is twice now that I got a virus warning at JPost.


*(COMMENT)*

It is not unique to any single web site.  There are days when I have been hi-jacked by it right here on this Message Board.  Twice just today.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Now that is interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is twice now that I got a virus warning at JPost.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is not unique to any single web site.  There are days when I have been hi-jacked by it right here on this Message Board.  Twice just today.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

FYI, it says that if you close that page your computer will be locked. That is just a bluff.

It isn't easy to close the page but when you do nothing happens.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Now that is interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is twice now that I got a virus warning at JPost.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is not unique to any single web site.  There are days when I have been hi-jacked by it right here on this Message Board.  Twice just today.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> FYI, it says that if you close that page your computer will be locked. That is just a bluff.
> 
> It isn't easy to close the page but when you do nothing happens.
Click to expand...

Change Your net provider.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel wounds 92 Palestinian civilians at weekly protest, including 28 children, 4 paramedics


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel wounds 92 Palestinian civilians at weekly protest, including 28 children, 4 paramedics



Another “ peaceful protest?”  It’s posted by the “ Free Palestine “ Newspaper so it must be true !


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel wounds 92 Palestinian civilians at weekly protest, including 28 children, 4 paramedics



Arabs-Moslems are paid by Hamas on a graduated scale for injuries. 

Think of this as paid overtime to supplement their welfare paychecks.


----------



## Sixties Fan

A video set to a popular song, Palestinian border unit members launch  incendiary and explosive laden balloons towards #Israel today. A total of about 19 fires were reported today. #Gaza

(full article online)

Gaza balloon arsonist unit has its own T-shirts ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

I have seen in the past that COGAT would list hundreds of Gaza businessmen as exiting and returning to the sector, I didn't know they were laborers.

I see nothing wrong with Israelis employing laborers from Gaza, as long as the proper security checks are done.

For there to be calm, Israel needs Palestinian leaders to support calm. The only way to accomplish that is to give them something they will lose if there are attacks.

Thousands of Gazans who simply want work will energize the Gaza economy with Israeli salaries, and Hamas wants that to happen. More importantly, it doesn't want to lose it.

" Over the past week, a relative calm has returned to the Gaza border region: The number of incendiary balloons has dropped and Hamas has also avoided renewing the violent night-time protests, which it sometimes held along the border fence. Last Friday's protest was also relatively quiet. Now, we can understand why."

(full article online)

Gazans are working in Israel ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> 46 Palestinians injured by Israeli gunfire in Gaza protests
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GAZA, (PIC)
> 
> The Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza said that 46 protesters were injured by the Israeli occupation army's gunfire while taking part in the Great March of Return on Friday.
> 
> The ministry said that two paramedics were among the injured.
> 
> The PIC reporter said that hundreds of Palestinians marched along the eastern border of the Gaza Strip on the 61st Friday of the Great March of Return to protest Israel's plan to annex the West Bank settlements and voice rejection of the US biased policy in favor of Israel.
> 
> The Gaza Strip Palestinians on 30 March 2018 launched the Great March of Return to call for allowing the return of refugees to their lands and breaking the 13-year-long blockade on the coastal enclave.
> 
> Since the start of the border protests, the Israeli occupation army has killed 318 Gazans and injured over 31,000 others.
> 
> Read more at
> 46 Palestinians injured by Israeli gunfire in Gaza protests
> @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center





Gazans launch dozens of fire balloons into Israel as hundreds riot on border

Keep Posting


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ The Religion of Hudna......I mean........"Peace"  ]

Friday was filled with more terror by the Arabs in Gaza, Judea, Samaria and in the Arab areas of Jerusalem. The Gaza terrorists also launched a rocket at Israel, thankfully it landed in an open field in Israel with no injuries and no damage done. 

How sad that instead of appreciating the fact that President Trump wants to aid the Arabs in Judea, Samaria and Gaza with $50 billion in economic projects, they go out and riot to harm Israelis. 

(full article online)

Rioting Across Samaria and Gaza Border - Israel Unwired


----------



## Sixties Fan

Palestinians Throw Explosives, Hand Grenades During Gaza Border Riots


----------



## Sixties Fan

For months now, Israel has been attacked by aerial incendiary weapons launched by Hamas during riots at the Gaza border fence.

These weapons—balloons or kites attached to flammable material—are driven by the winds off the sea towards southern Israel.

In just one week in June, they started nearly 100 fires in farmland and forests, in playgrounds and private yards. By last month, Hamas had burned more than 7,400 acres of Israeli land.

At the same time, Israeli communities near the border are also routinely attacked with rockets and mortars from terrorist groups stationed inside the Gaza Strip.

An American lawyer, Col. Matthew Aiesi, an associate professor at the Judge Advocate General’s Legal Center and School in Charlottesville, Va., was among a group of national security lawyers who recently witnessed these attacks for themselves.

As he has written, these are indisputably war crimes, violating numerous rules of warfare by deliberately targeting civilians and using indiscriminate weapons.

Aiesi says the United Nations or countries like Egypt working towards peace in the region should seek the surrender of those committing these war crimes to stand trial before a fair and competent jurisdiction.

Yet beyond Israel, these attacks are scarcely reported at all. And virtually no one is even stating that they are self-evidently war crimes.

(full article online)

The incendiary balloon of international law


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> For months now, Israel has been attacked by aerial incendiary weapons launched by Hamas during riots at the Gaza border fence.
> 
> These weapons—balloons or kites attached to flammable material—are driven by the winds off the sea towards southern Israel.
> 
> In just one week in June, they started nearly 100 fires in farmland and forests, in playgrounds and private yards. By last month, Hamas had burned more than 7,400 acres of Israeli land.
> 
> At the same time, Israeli communities near the border are also routinely attacked with rockets and mortars from terrorist groups stationed inside the Gaza Strip.
> 
> An American lawyer, Col. Matthew Aiesi, an associate professor at the Judge Advocate General’s Legal Center and School in Charlottesville, Va., was among a group of national security lawyers who recently witnessed these attacks for themselves.
> 
> As he has written, these are indisputably war crimes, violating numerous rules of warfare by deliberately targeting civilians and using indiscriminate weapons.
> 
> Aiesi says the United Nations or countries like Egypt working towards peace in the region should seek the surrender of those committing these war crimes to stand trial before a fair and competent jurisdiction.
> 
> Yet beyond Israel, these attacks are scarcely reported at all. And virtually no one is even stating that they are self-evidently war crimes.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The incendiary balloon of international law


That should include criminals from both sides.

Why doesn't Israel open a case?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> For months now, Israel has been attacked by aerial incendiary weapons launched by Hamas during riots at the Gaza border fence.
> 
> These weapons—balloons or kites attached to flammable material—are driven by the winds off the sea towards southern Israel.
> 
> In just one week in June, they started nearly 100 fires in farmland and forests, in playgrounds and private yards. By last month, Hamas had burned more than 7,400 acres of Israeli land.
> 
> At the same time, Israeli communities near the border are also routinely attacked with rockets and mortars from terrorist groups stationed inside the Gaza Strip.
> 
> An American lawyer, Col. Matthew Aiesi, an associate professor at the Judge Advocate General’s Legal Center and School in Charlottesville, Va., was among a group of national security lawyers who recently witnessed these attacks for themselves.
> 
> As he has written, these are indisputably war crimes, violating numerous rules of warfare by deliberately targeting civilians and using indiscriminate weapons.
> 
> Aiesi says the United Nations or countries like Egypt working towards peace in the region should seek the surrender of those committing these war crimes to stand trial before a fair and competent jurisdiction.
> 
> Yet beyond Israel, these attacks are scarcely reported at all. And virtually no one is even stating that they are self-evidently war crimes.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> The incendiary balloon of international law
> 
> 
> 
> That should include criminals from both sides.
> 
> Why doesn't Israel open a case?
Click to expand...


Swift justice comes from the barrel of an Israeli sniper.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Muslims really love their former Grand Mufti ]





A Nazi swastika flag raised on the Israel-Gaza Strip border, Friday, Aug. 2, 2019. Photo: IDF.

Around 6,000 Palestinians rioted on the Israel-Gaza Strip border on Friday, throwing rocks, firebombs and explosive devices at IDF troops.

Nazi Swastika Flag Raised by Palestinian Rioters During Unrest on Israel-Gaza Border


----------



## Hollie

It’s just sleazy, no other way to describe it, to use children as human shields and to use children as cheap, disposable commodities for a quick news snippet. 




IDF: Gaza children being promised NIS 300 ($83) if injured at border protests

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-gaza-children-being-promised-nis-300-if-injured-at-border-protests/

Israeli army says troops see Hamas sending kids as young as 8 to front lines of violent demonstrations





Palestinian demonstrators burn tires near the Gaza-Israel border, east of Gaza City, during protests over the inauguration of the US embassy in Jerusalem, May 14, 2018 (AFP Photo/Mahmud Hams)
Israeli security forces have recently noticed Hamas sending children as young as eight years old to the front lines of protests along the Gaza-Israel border, the Israel Defense Forces said on Thursday.

They have also lately heard unidentified operatives on loudspeakers promising children at the border NIS 300 ($83) if they get injured, the army said, confirming a previous unsourced report on the Kan public broadcaster


----------



## Shusha

Sixties Fan said:


> [ Muslims really love their former Grand Mufti ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Nazi swastika flag raised on the Israel-Gaza Strip border, Friday, Aug. 2, 2019. Photo: IDF.
> 
> Around 6,000 Palestinians rioted on the Israel-Gaza Strip border on Friday, throwing rocks, firebombs and explosive devices at IDF troops.
> 
> Nazi Swastika Flag Raised by Palestinian Rioters During Unrest on Israel-Gaza Border




Hey now, Nazi symbols for Jewish extermination are perfectly valid criticisms of Israeli policy, right?


----------



## Shusha

Hollie said:


> It’s just sleazy, no other way to describe it, to use children as human shields and to use children as cheap, disposable commodities for a quick news snippet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IDF: Gaza children being promised NIS 300 ($83) if injured at border protests
> 
> https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-gaza-children-being-promised-nis-300-if-injured-at-border-protests/
> 
> Israeli army says troops see Hamas sending kids as young as 8 to front lines of violent demonstrations
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian demonstrators burn tires near the Gaza-Israel border, east of Gaza City, during protests over the inauguration of the US embassy in Jerusalem, May 14, 2018 (AFP Photo/Mahmud Hams)
> Israeli security forces have recently noticed Hamas sending children as young as eight years old to the front lines of protests along the Gaza-Israel border, the Israel Defense Forces said on Thursday.
> 
> They have also lately heard unidentified operatives on loudspeakers promising children at the border NIS 300 ($83) if they get injured, the army said, confirming a previous unsourced report on the Kan public broadcaster




*Definition of a child soldier*

A child associated with an armed force or armed group refers to any person below 18 years of age who is, or who has been, recruited or used by an armed force or armed group in any capacity ...

*Optional Protocol on the Involvement of Children in Armed Conflict*

States will not recruit children under the age of 18 to send them to the battlefield.
States will not conscript soldiers below the age of 18.
States should take all possible measures to prevent such recruitment –including legislation to prohibit and criminalize the recruitment of children under 18 and involve them in hostilities.
States will demobilize anyone under 18 conscripted or used in hostilities and will provide physical, psychological recovery services and help their social reintegration.
Armed groups distinct from the armed forces of a country should not, under any circumstances, recruit or use in hostilities anyone under 18.
The Protocol entered into force in 2002 and has now been ratified by a majority of the world’s countries.


----------



## Sixties Fan

The man who merely *“cut the fence “a small bit”.”*

After the publication of our original post, Joe Truzman, researcher of terror organizations and author of the GroundBrief newsletter contacted us. His online research revealed the Bilal Masoud that Sarah Helm and The Sunday Times didn’t want you to see. He sent us these photos:










Does this look like an innocent protester armed only with a slingshot?

Masoud may not have been carrying an AK-47 automatic rifle when he was shot by the IDF. These images, however, put into context that he was clearly a dangerous man with ill intent towards Israel and capable of deadly violence had he managed to do more than cut the fence “a small bit.”

(full article online)

Exclusive: Gaza 'Victim' Exposed With His AK-47


----------



## Sixties Fan

The reason given by the National Authority for Return and Breaking the Siege, which was published in Hamas newspapers, is because it is the day before Eid al Adha and they wanted their rioters to have a chance to prepare for the holiday.

(full article online)

"Spontaneous" Gaza riots cancelled for this week ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

IDF Foils 2nd Infiltration Attempt From Gaza Within 24 Hours


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel planning 'security wall' on Gaza border


----------



## Sixties Fan

The IDF confirmed that one rocket had been fired from Gaza and was intercepted by the Iron Dome anti-missile system.

A 29-year-old woman was lightly injured after falling in Sderot during the siren in the city. Magen David Adom paramedics evacuated her to the Barzilai Hospital in Ashkelon.

The previous rocket attacks on southern Israel took place in mid-July, just over a month ago. In those attacks, two rockets fired from Gaza exploded in open areas and did not cause any injuries or damages.

Meanwhile on Friday, the weekly “March of the Return” border riots continued, with around 5,000 Palestinian Arabs demonstrating along the border fence, throwing grenades and explosives at the fence.

The Hamas-run “health ministry” in Gaza said 38 people were injured as a result of IDF fire.

The border riots follow two security incidents along the border this past week. On Sunday morning an armed terrorist approached the border fence in the northern Gaza Strip.

The terrorist fired at IDF soldiers along the border. The soldiers, who were on alert following the identification of the terrorist, opened fire at him.

That incident came 24 hours after IDF soldiers from the Golani Brigade shot and killed four armed terrorists who attempted to infiltrate Israel early Saturday morning.

(full article online)

Iron Dome intercepts rocket fired from Gaza

The terrorists, who attempted to cross into Israel from near Khan Yunis in southern Gaza, were spotted as they approached the border fence.

The terrorists were armed with Kalashnikov rifles, hand grenades, and launcher for rocket-propelled grenades (RPG).


----------



## Sixties Fan

The photos accompanying many of the news stories of Israel neutralizing three heavily armed terrorists at the Gaza border show nothing but sympathy for the terrorists.

Relatives of the terrorists are shown as mourning their deaths in at least three major news sources:

Photos are often more important than the text of a story. The causal browser of news sees mourners and assumes that the relatives who died were unjustly killed. 

The headlines from VOANews and France24 don't help matters - they imply that Israel just randomly killed Palestinians.

All of these photos were taken by Mohammed Salem at Reuters. The scenes look posed and contrived to me.

(full photos online)

Media portraying Gaza terrorists as victims ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ The weekly report of people who do nothing but waste their time and lives in order to kill Jews and destroy Israel ]

Soldier lightly injured by shrapnel as thousands protest on Gaza border


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> [ The weekly report of people who do nothing but waste their time and lives in order to kill Jews and destroy Israel ]
> 
> Soldier lightly injured by shrapnel as thousands protest on Gaza border


Israeli soldiers captured four Palestinians who crossed into Israel from the Strip​
How can they do that when there is no border there?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ The weekly report of people who do nothing but waste their time and lives in order to kill Jews and destroy Israel ]
> 
> Soldier lightly injured by shrapnel as thousands protest on Gaza border
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli soldiers captured four Palestinians who crossed into Israel from the Strip​
> How can they do that when there is no border there?
Click to expand...


There is a border there. Dead gee-had wannabes will show you where to find it.


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ Violently attempt to enter Israel and continue to call yourselves......"victims" ]

Two Gazans dead in violent border riots


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> How can they do that when there is no border there?



Two Palestinian teenagers shot dead by Israeli army

Two Palestinian teenagers have been killed by Israeli gunfire during a protest along the Israel-Gaza border fence.




I guess if there is no border there, the gee-had wannabes aren't really dead.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Hamas just told the world why Israel must protect the Gaza border


----------



## Sixties Fan

This week, for the second week in a row, there will be no Friday protests at the Gaza fence.

Three reasons were given.

The first reason is that Hamas is afraid that Israel will violate the terms of the cease-fire and shoot demonstrators, prompting Islamic Jihad to respond and lead to a new confrontation. They claim Israel would provoke such a crisis to help Netanyahu stay in office.

The second reason given was to allow time to resolve differences between Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

The third reason cited in the report is the Palestinians' desire to examine border areas for any leftover explosives after the recent fighting.

In fact, the organizing committee for the "March of Return" has been discussing whether to reduce the number of protests altogether, perhaps cutting them back to once a month or only in response to specific incidents, rather than on Fridays.

(full article online)

Hamas considering cutting down on - or eliminating - weekly Friday Gaza protests ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ If it does not work.......]

The committee responsible for organizing weekly protests in the border region between Israel and the Gaza Strip announced on Thursday that demonstrations would take place less frequently in 2020.

The High Commission for the March of Return and Breaking the Siege, which includes representatives of Gaza-based terror groups and political factions, said in a statement that protests would occur on “a monthly basis as well as whenever we need masses to gather and during prominent national occasions,” starting on March 30, 2020. 

(full article online)

Gaza groups say border protests to stop until March, resume infrequently in 2020


----------



## Sixties Fan

RPG attached to balloons found outside Sde Boker in southern Israel on January 25, 2020

(photo credit: RAMAT NEGEV REGIONAL COUNCIL SPOKESPERSON)

RPG attached to balloons found outside Sde Boker in southern Israel


----------



## Votto

Sixties Fan said:


> RPG attached to balloons found outside Sde Boker in southern Israel on January 25, 2020
> 
> (photo credit: RAMAT NEGEV REGIONAL COUNCIL SPOKESPERSON)
> 
> RPG attached to balloons found outside Sde Boker in southern Israel



Interesting, because the BG's were spotted outside of Tel Aviv yesterday






Coincidence?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→  Votto, Sixties Fan, et al,

I'm not sure that the Regional Council person actually knows what he took a picture of.



Votto said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> RPG attached to balloons found outside Sde Boker in southern Israel on January 25, 2020
> 
> (photo credit: RAMAT NEGEV REGIONAL COUNCIL SPOKESPERSON)
> 
> RPG attached to balloons found outside Sde Boker in southern Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, because the BG's were spotted outside of Tel Aviv yesterday
> 
> Coincidence?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

RPG Projectiles have a distinctive shape to them (a warhead on top of a tubular rocket).  This looks to be the size and general shape to the old Russian made answer to our 40mm Grenade (maybe an OG-7 shell).  I cannot really tell from the picture.  And for that reason, I don't think it has anything to do with or even a coincidence to any event.  But I do find it interesting.

But think about it (for a second), how much weight can a set of balloons carry?  Even a Russian OG-7V
fragmentation grenade (use by Activist, Insurgents and Terrorist) in the (for instance) Ukraine are a bit too heavy for a delivery system like balloons.  If I were working for the Israeli Security Services (ISS), I would be looking at this rather hard. _ (Many questions.)(Is this is a planted devise for media purposes?  Or  Is this a flashlight tube used to get the attention of night surveillance?)_ 

Just my thought.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

Israel’s South Flooded with Booby-Trapped Balloons Launched from Gaza


----------



## Sixties Fan

As Gaza balloons bring bombs to Israel, IDF pens poem teaching kids to keep away


----------



## Sixties Fan

WATCH: Terrorist Lights the Fuse, Launches Explosive Device Toward Israel


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border 
⁜→  Sixties Fan,  et al,

Now I find this interesting.



Sixties Fan said:


> WATCH: Terrorist Lights the Fuse, Launches Explosive Device Toward Israel


*(COMMENT)*

Most → I think would recognize this as an old RPG-2 (AKA: B-40).

But this is a different balloon arrangement then the earlier picture using party balloons.  

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sixties Fan

[ And it continues........]









						IDF strikes Hamas site in Gaza after arson balloons spark fires in south
					

Israeli aircraft reportedly target facility controlled by the terror group outside Beit Lahiya in second strike of week




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

*Only fuel, food and humanitarian goods will be allowed into the Gaza Strip, says Israeli military as Kerem Shalom shut ‘until further notice’*









						Israel closes Gaza border crossing after spike in arson balloon attacks
					

Only fuel, food and humanitarian goods will be allowed into the Gaza Strip, says Israeli military as Kerem Shalom shut 'until further notice'




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Slyhunter

Why don't they stop attacking Israel?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Egypt demands end to balloon attacks on Israel
					

Hamas, Islamic Jihad officials may be invited to Cairo




					www.jpost.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→ Sixties Fan, et al,

*BLUF*: Yes, this is in the range of very believable. The problem is that the Hostile Arab Palestinians have no sense of accountability for the consequences of their action. There is no measure of confidence that the HAMAS_ (Islamic Resistance Movement)_ and PIJ _(Palestinian Islamic Jihad)_ leadership have the discipline to follow the advise of the Egyptian General Intelligence Service (EGIS) _(Egyptian Intelligence Agency)_.



Sixties Fan said:


> Egypt demands end to balloon attacks on Israel
> 
> 
> Hamas, Islamic Jihad officials may be invited to Cairo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com


*(COMMENT)*

While this is encouraging news, it is not new news.  The EGIS and Egyptian proponents of the Peace Negotiations have made this request before.

Egypt has demanded that Hamas and other Palestinian groups stop the incendiary balloon attacks on Israel, Palestinian sources said Wednesday.​
Senior Egyptian intelligence officials contacted leaders of Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) and warned them that the continued attacks on Israel could lead to an all-out military confrontation in the Gaza Strip, the sources said.​


Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→ Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: Yes, this is in the range of very believable. The problem is that the Hostile Arab Palestinians have no sense of accountability for the consequences of their action. There is no measure of confidence that the HAMAS_ (Islamic Resistance Movement)_ and PIJ _(Palestinian Islamic Jihad)_ leadership have the discipline to follow the advise of the Egyptian General Intelligence Service (EGIS) _(Egyptian Intelligence Agency)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt demands end to balloon attacks on Israel
> 
> 
> Hamas, Islamic Jihad officials may be invited to Cairo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While this is encouraging news, it is not new news.  The EGIS and Egyptian proponents of the Peace Negotiations have made this request before.
> 
> Egypt has demanded that Hamas and other Palestinian groups stop the incendiary balloon attacks on Israel, Palestinian sources said Wednesday.​
> Senior Egyptian intelligence officials contacted leaders of Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) and warned them that the continued attacks on Israel could lead to an all-out military confrontation in the Gaza Strip, the sources said.​
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Balloons?

Send out the tanks and F-16s


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→ Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: Yes, this is in the range of very believable. The problem is that the Hostile Arab Palestinians have no sense of accountability for the consequences of their action. There is no measure of confidence that the HAMAS_ (Islamic Resistance Movement)_ and PIJ _(Palestinian Islamic Jihad)_ leadership have the discipline to follow the advise of the Egyptian General Intelligence Service (EGIS) _(Egyptian Intelligence Agency)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt demands end to balloon attacks on Israel
> 
> 
> Hamas, Islamic Jihad officials may be invited to Cairo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While this is encouraging news, it is not new news.  The EGIS and Egyptian proponents of the Peace Negotiations have made this request before.
> 
> Egypt has demanded that Hamas and other Palestinian groups stop the incendiary balloon attacks on Israel, Palestinian sources said Wednesday.​
> Senior Egyptian intelligence officials contacted leaders of Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) and warned them that the continued attacks on Israel could lead to an all-out military confrontation in the Gaza Strip, the sources said.​
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Balloons?
> 
> Send out the tanks and F-16s
Click to expand...


Ok.


*IDF strikes Hamas terror targets in Gaza in response to explosive balloons*
By AARON REICH 
AUGUST 12, 2020 20:19





Flame and smoke are seen during an Israeli air strike in the southern Gaza Strip
(photo credit: IBRAHEEM ABU MUSTAFA/REUTERS)


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→ Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: Yes, this is in the range of very believable. The problem is that the Hostile Arab Palestinians have no sense of accountability for the consequences of their action. There is no measure of confidence that the HAMAS_ (Islamic Resistance Movement)_ and PIJ _(Palestinian Islamic Jihad)_ leadership have the discipline to follow the advise of the Egyptian General Intelligence Service (EGIS) _(Egyptian Intelligence Agency)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt demands end to balloon attacks on Israel
> 
> 
> Hamas, Islamic Jihad officials may be invited to Cairo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While this is encouraging news, it is not new news.  The EGIS and Egyptian proponents of the Peace Negotiations have made this request before.
> 
> Egypt has demanded that Hamas and other Palestinian groups stop the incendiary balloon attacks on Israel, Palestinian sources said Wednesday.​
> Senior Egyptian intelligence officials contacted leaders of Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) and warned them that the continued attacks on Israel could lead to an all-out military confrontation in the Gaza Strip, the sources said.​
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Balloons?
> 
> Send out the tanks and F-16s
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok.
> 
> 
> *IDF strikes Hamas terror targets in Gaza in response to explosive balloons*
> By AARON REICH
> AUGUST 12, 2020 20:19
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flame and smoke are seen during an Israeli air strike in the southern Gaza Strip
> (photo credit: IBRAHEEM ABU MUSTAFA/REUTERS)
Click to expand...

Did that stop the balloons?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→ Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: Yes, this is in the range of very believable. The problem is that the Hostile Arab Palestinians have no sense of accountability for the consequences of their action. There is no measure of confidence that the HAMAS_ (Islamic Resistance Movement)_ and PIJ _(Palestinian Islamic Jihad)_ leadership have the discipline to follow the advise of the Egyptian General Intelligence Service (EGIS) _(Egyptian Intelligence Agency)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt demands end to balloon attacks on Israel
> 
> 
> Hamas, Islamic Jihad officials may be invited to Cairo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While this is encouraging news, it is not new news.  The EGIS and Egyptian proponents of the Peace Negotiations have made this request before.
> 
> Egypt has demanded that Hamas and other Palestinian groups stop the incendiary balloon attacks on Israel, Palestinian sources said Wednesday.​
> Senior Egyptian intelligence officials contacted leaders of Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) and warned them that the continued attacks on Israel could lead to an all-out military confrontation in the Gaza Strip, the sources said.​
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Balloons?
> 
> Send out the tanks and F-16s
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok.
> 
> 
> *IDF strikes Hamas terror targets in Gaza in response to explosive balloons*
> By AARON REICH
> AUGUST 12, 2020 20:19
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flame and smoke are seen during an Israeli air strike in the southern Gaza Strip
> (photo credit: IBRAHEEM ABU MUSTAFA/REUTERS)
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did that stop the balloons?
Click to expand...


For quite some time, yes.

Rather than just flailing your Pom Poms for the balloon’ists, why not grab some of that sweet martyrdom and those virgins for yourself?


----------



## Slyhunter

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→ Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: Yes, this is in the range of very believable. The problem is that the Hostile Arab Palestinians have no sense of accountability for the consequences of their action. There is no measure of confidence that the HAMAS_ (Islamic Resistance Movement)_ and PIJ _(Palestinian Islamic Jihad)_ leadership have the discipline to follow the advise of the Egyptian General Intelligence Service (EGIS) _(Egyptian Intelligence Agency)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt demands end to balloon attacks on Israel
> 
> 
> Hamas, Islamic Jihad officials may be invited to Cairo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While this is encouraging news, it is not new news.  The EGIS and Egyptian proponents of the Peace Negotiations have made this request before.
> 
> Egypt has demanded that Hamas and other Palestinian groups stop the incendiary balloon attacks on Israel, Palestinian sources said Wednesday.​
> Senior Egyptian intelligence officials contacted leaders of Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) and warned them that the continued attacks on Israel could lead to an all-out military confrontation in the Gaza Strip, the sources said.​
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Balloons?
> 
> Send out the tanks and F-16s
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok.
> 
> 
> *IDF strikes Hamas terror targets in Gaza in response to explosive balloons*
> By AARON REICH
> AUGUST 12, 2020 20:19
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flame and smoke are seen during an Israeli air strike in the southern Gaza Strip
> (photo credit: IBRAHEEM ABU MUSTAFA/REUTERS)
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did that stop the balloons?
Click to expand...

You want them to do what it will take to stop the balloons? So do I. Take the gloves off let Israel kill everyone over there who refuses to believe in peace.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Slyhunter said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→ Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: Yes, this is in the range of very believable. The problem is that the Hostile Arab Palestinians have no sense of accountability for the consequences of their action. There is no measure of confidence that the HAMAS_ (Islamic Resistance Movement)_ and PIJ _(Palestinian Islamic Jihad)_ leadership have the discipline to follow the advise of the Egyptian General Intelligence Service (EGIS) _(Egyptian Intelligence Agency)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt demands end to balloon attacks on Israel
> 
> 
> Hamas, Islamic Jihad officials may be invited to Cairo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While this is encouraging news, it is not new news.  The EGIS and Egyptian proponents of the Peace Negotiations have made this request before.
> 
> Egypt has demanded that Hamas and other Palestinian groups stop the incendiary balloon attacks on Israel, Palestinian sources said Wednesday.​
> Senior Egyptian intelligence officials contacted leaders of Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) and warned them that the continued attacks on Israel could lead to an all-out military confrontation in the Gaza Strip, the sources said.​
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Balloons?
> 
> Send out the tanks and F-16s
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok.
> 
> 
> *IDF strikes Hamas terror targets in Gaza in response to explosive balloons*
> By AARON REICH
> AUGUST 12, 2020 20:19
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flame and smoke are seen during an Israeli air strike in the southern Gaza Strip
> (photo credit: IBRAHEEM ABU MUSTAFA/REUTERS)
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did that stop the balloons?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You want them to do what it will take to stop the balloons? So do I. Take the gloves off let Israel kill everyone over there who refuses to believe in peace.
Click to expand...

So you are suggesting genocide because Israel does not have the mental capacity to deal with high tech balloons.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→ Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: Yes, this is in the range of very believable. The problem is that the Hostile Arab Palestinians have no sense of accountability for the consequences of their action. There is no measure of confidence that the HAMAS_ (Islamic Resistance Movement)_ and PIJ _(Palestinian Islamic Jihad)_ leadership have the discipline to follow the advise of the Egyptian General Intelligence Service (EGIS) _(Egyptian Intelligence Agency)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt demands end to balloon attacks on Israel
> 
> 
> Hamas, Islamic Jihad officials may be invited to Cairo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While this is encouraging news, it is not new news.  The EGIS and Egyptian proponents of the Peace Negotiations have made this request before.
> 
> Egypt has demanded that Hamas and other Palestinian groups stop the incendiary balloon attacks on Israel, Palestinian sources said Wednesday.​
> Senior Egyptian intelligence officials contacted leaders of Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) and warned them that the continued attacks on Israel could lead to an all-out military confrontation in the Gaza Strip, the sources said.​
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Balloons?
> 
> Send out the tanks and F-16s
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok.
> 
> 
> *IDF strikes Hamas terror targets in Gaza in response to explosive balloons*
> By AARON REICH
> AUGUST 12, 2020 20:19
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flame and smoke are seen during an Israeli air strike in the southern Gaza Strip
> (photo credit: IBRAHEEM ABU MUSTAFA/REUTERS)
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did that stop the balloons?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For quite some time, yes.
> 
> Rather than just flailing your Pom Poms for the balloon’ists, why not grab some of that sweet martyrdom and those virgins for yourself?
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→ Sixties Fan, et al,
> 
> *BLUF*: Yes, this is in the range of very believable. The problem is that the Hostile Arab Palestinians have no sense of accountability for the consequences of their action. There is no measure of confidence that the HAMAS_ (Islamic Resistance Movement)_ and PIJ _(Palestinian Islamic Jihad)_ leadership have the discipline to follow the advise of the Egyptian General Intelligence Service (EGIS) _(Egyptian Intelligence Agency)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt demands end to balloon attacks on Israel
> 
> 
> Hamas, Islamic Jihad officials may be invited to Cairo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While this is encouraging news, it is not new news.  The EGIS and Egyptian proponents of the Peace Negotiations have made this request before.
> 
> Egypt has demanded that Hamas and other Palestinian groups stop the incendiary balloon attacks on Israel, Palestinian sources said Wednesday.​
> Senior Egyptian intelligence officials contacted leaders of Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) and warned them that the continued attacks on Israel could lead to an all-out military confrontation in the Gaza Strip, the sources said.​
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Balloons?
> 
> Send out the tanks and F-16s
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok.
> 
> 
> *IDF strikes Hamas terror targets in Gaza in response to explosive balloons*
> By AARON REICH
> AUGUST 12, 2020 20:19
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flame and smoke are seen during an Israeli air strike in the southern Gaza Strip
> (photo credit: IBRAHEEM ABU MUSTAFA/REUTERS)
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did that stop the balloons?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For quite some time, yes.
> 
> Rather than just flailing your Pom Poms for the balloon’ists, why not grab some of that sweet martyrdom and those virgins for yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Your hurt feelings caused you to scurry away.


----------



## Likkmee

On what border ?


----------



## Hollie

Oh, dear. It seems the planet is not showering the Arabs-Moslems occupying Gaza and the West Bank with enough welfare money.

Can’t we just give them more money?











						Why Palestinians prefer to work for Israelis | PMW Analysis
					

Income increased 95% for Palestinians employed by Israelis; only 30% for Palestinians employed by Palestinians




					palwatch.org
				





*Why Palestinians prefer to work for Israelis*
Itamar Marcus  | Aug 13, 2020

*Income increased 95% for Palestinians employed by Israelis; only 30% for Palestinians employed by Palestinians*
*Income rise of Palestinians employed by Israelis more than double of  inflation*
*Income rise of Palestinians employed by Palestinians is only 2/3 of inflation*
Continuing the trend that Palestinian Media Watch has reported in the past, Palestinian workers still benefit significantly by being employed within Israel and in the Jewish towns in the West Bank, according to a Palestinian professor of economics at An-Najah University. Economics Faculty Director Dr. Bakri Shtayyeh told PA TV that Palestinian income has risen over the last 15 years by only 2/3 of the price increases, causing a major drop in buying power for Palestinians. However for Palestinians employed in Israel and in the “settlements,” income has risen at more than twice the rate of price increases. This means the buying power for Palestinians employed by Israelis has more than doubled.

For more information, see PMW's Special Report showing why Palestinians say they prefer to work for Israelis.
The following is from the text of the interview:


> *An-Najah National University Economics Faculty Director Dr. Bakri Shtayyeh:* “If we take the period between 2004 and 2019 – 15 years, the past 15 years – we see that the rate of prices has gone up for us in Palestine by 45%... Let’s talk now about the sectors. The sector of [Palestinian] workers in the private sector, the sector of laborers – their income went up by 30%, while the prices went up by 45%; therefore their buying power decreased. [As for] the sector of [Palestinian] workers in Israel and the settlements, their income went up by 95%, while the increase in prices was 45%. Therefore their buying power increased very greatly. The gap is clear, and the gap between the two sectors is widening. [As for] the layer of [Palestinian] public employees in the two sectors – civilian or military – their salaries went up by an average of 65%. In other words, more than the percent of the increase in prices.”
> [Official PA TV, _Supply and Demand_, Aug. 4, 2020]


----------



## Slyhunter

Hollie said:


> Oh, dear. It seems the planet is not showering the Arabs-Moslems occupying Gaza and the West Bank with enough welfare money.
> 
> Can’t we just give them more money?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Palestinians prefer to work for Israelis | PMW Analysis
> 
> 
> Income increased 95% for Palestinians employed by Israelis; only 30% for Palestinians employed by Palestinians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> palwatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Why Palestinians prefer to work for Israelis*
> Itamar Marcus  | Aug 13, 2020
> 
> *Income increased 95% for Palestinians employed by Israelis; only 30% for Palestinians employed by Palestinians*
> *Income rise of Palestinians employed by Israelis more than double of  inflation*
> *Income rise of Palestinians employed by Palestinians is only 2/3 of inflation*
> Continuing the trend that Palestinian Media Watch has reported in the past, Palestinian workers still benefit significantly by being employed within Israel and in the Jewish towns in the West Bank, according to a Palestinian professor of economics at An-Najah University. Economics Faculty Director Dr. Bakri Shtayyeh told PA TV that Palestinian income has risen over the last 15 years by only 2/3 of the price increases, causing a major drop in buying power for Palestinians. However for Palestinians employed in Israel and in the “settlements,” income has risen at more than twice the rate of price increases. This means the buying power for Palestinians employed by Israelis has more than doubled.
> 
> For more information, see PMW's Special Report showing why Palestinians say they prefer to work for Israelis.
> The following is from the text of the interview:
> 
> 
> 
> *An-Najah National University Economics Faculty Director Dr. Bakri Shtayyeh:* “If we take the period between 2004 and 2019 – 15 years, the past 15 years – we see that the rate of prices has gone up for us in Palestine by 45%... Let’s talk now about the sectors. The sector of [Palestinian] workers in the private sector, the sector of laborers – their income went up by 30%, while the prices went up by 45%; therefore their buying power decreased. [As for] the sector of [Palestinian] workers in Israel and the settlements, their income went up by 95%, while the increase in prices was 45%. Therefore their buying power increased very greatly. The gap is clear, and the gap between the two sectors is widening. [As for] the layer of [Palestinian] public employees in the two sectors – civilian or military – their salaries went up by an average of 65%. In other words, more than the percent of the increase in prices.”
> [Official PA TV, _Supply and Demand_, Aug. 4, 2020]
Click to expand...

The ones employed probably aren't the ones deploying balloons.
They are a good example to those who are.
And in reply to someone else, it wouldn't be genocide to wipe out a few thousand Palestinians in Gaza since the docile ones live in Israel.


----------



## Sixties Fan

WATCH: Israeli Laser Blasts Arson Balloons Out of the Sky | United with Israel
					

Israel's Border Police posted a video of its laser slicing terrorists' arson balloons mid-flight.




					unitedwithisrael.org


----------



## Sixties Fan

Gaza groups are proud of their war crimes. The world is silent. (UPDATE)
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> Gaza groups are proud of their war crimes. The world is silent. (UPDATE)
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com


I don't see anyone taken to the Hague.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border        
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:  Wow, P F Tinmore is showing unusual insight into the question.



Sixties Fan said:


> Gaza groups are proud of their war crimes. The world is silent. (UPDATE)
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com





P F Tinmore said:


> I don't see anyone taken to the Hague.


*(COMMENT)*

Israel is NOT a signatory to the International Criminal Court (ICC) and Rome Statues.

Israel has little_ (if any)_ awareness of international judicial integrity and competence,  especially when the ICC has made the world known that it supports the pro-Hostile Terrorist Arab Palestinian Consortium_ (of more than a half-dozen active criminal state-supported activities and non-state actors)_ conducting attacks directed against Jewish State and National Home, intended or calculated to create "fear" in the minds of the citizenry and general public.  

Any time the judicial systems_ (international and national)_ openly support organizations that conduct operations involving open attacks against purely civilian targets, that engage in kidnapping operations and murder, suicide bombing, hijackings, and the execution of women and children --- THEN there is no reason to trust that same system to protect the innocent.

Any time the judicial systems _(international and national)_ openly support a client that engages in indiscriminate attacks, that locates military objectives within or near densely populated areas, forces civilian persons to remain in the vicinity of military objectives, and that utilizes the presence of civilians to render legitimate hostile targets immune from effective engagement, is not demonstrating any level of integrity in the judicial process.

Why would anyone believe that any complaint taken to The Hague would result in a fair and honest outcome?

*(QUESTION)*

What high contracting party to the International Criminal Court (ICC) and Rome Statues would support the notion that none of them would be permitted to defend their sovereign borders from armed attacks like that exhibited by the pro-Hostile Terrorist Arab Palestinian Consortium?




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  Wow, P F Tinmore is showing unusual insight into the question.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza groups are proud of their war crimes. The world is silent. (UPDATE)
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see anyone taken to the Hague.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel is NOT a signatory to the International Criminal Court (ICC) and Rome Statues.
> 
> Israel has little_ (if any)_ awareness of international judicial integrity and competence,  especially when the ICC has made the world known that it supports the pro-Hostile Terrorist Arab Palestinian Consortium_ (of more than a half-dozen active criminal state-supported activities and non-state actors)_ conducting attacks directed against Jewish State and National Home, intended or calculated to create "fear" in the minds of the citizenry and general public.
> 
> Any time the judicial systems_ (international and national)_ openly support organizations that conduct operations involving open attacks against purely civilian targets, that engage in kidnapping operations and murder, suicide bombing, hijackings, and the execution of women and children --- THEN there is no reason to trust that same system to protect the innocent.
> 
> Any time the judicial systems _(international and national)_ openly support a client that engages in indiscriminate attacks, that locates military objectives within or near densely populated areas, forces civilian persons to remain in the vicinity of military objectives, and that utilizes the presence of civilians to render legitimate hostile targets immune from effective engagement, is not demonstrating any level of integrity in the judicial process.
> 
> Why would anyone believe that any complaint taken to The Hague would result in a fair and honest outcome?
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What high contracting party to the International Criminal Court (ICC) and Rome Statues would support the notion that none of them would be permitted to defend their sovereign borders from armed attacks like that exhibited by the pro-Hostile Terrorist Arab Palestinian Consortium?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

More Israeli talking points.

Israel is a law free zone. It is the wild west of the middle east.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  Wow, P F Tinmore is showing unusual insight into the question.
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza groups are proud of their war crimes. The world is silent. (UPDATE)
> 
> 
> Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elderofziyon.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see anyone taken to the Hague.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel is NOT a signatory to the International Criminal Court (ICC) and Rome Statues.
> 
> Israel has little_ (if any)_ awareness of international judicial integrity and competence,  especially when the ICC has made the world known that it supports the pro-Hostile Terrorist Arab Palestinian Consortium_ (of more than a half-dozen active criminal state-supported activities and non-state actors)_ conducting attacks directed against Jewish State and National Home, intended or calculated to create "fear" in the minds of the citizenry and general public.
> 
> Any time the judicial systems_ (international and national)_ openly support organizations that conduct operations involving open attacks against purely civilian targets, that engage in kidnapping operations and murder, suicide bombing, hijackings, and the execution of women and children --- THEN there is no reason to trust that same system to protect the innocent.
> 
> Any time the judicial systems _(international and national)_ openly support a client that engages in indiscriminate attacks, that locates military objectives within or near densely populated areas, forces civilian persons to remain in the vicinity of military objectives, and that utilizes the presence of civilians to render legitimate hostile targets immune from effective engagement, is not demonstrating any level of integrity in the judicial process.
> 
> Why would anyone believe that any complaint taken to The Hague would result in a fair and honest outcome?
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What high contracting party to the International Criminal Court (ICC) and Rome Statues would support the notion that none of them would be permitted to defend their sovereign borders from armed attacks like that exhibited by the pro-Hostile Terrorist Arab Palestinian Consortium?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More Israeli talking points.
> 
> Israel is a law free zone. It is the wild west of the middle east.
Click to expand...


You're reality challenged.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Not just fires: Hamas sending floating bombs to Israel
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

On August 13th listeners to the BBC World Service radio programme ‘Newshour’ heard the first mention of the incendiary balloons that are one of the methods which have been used to launch attacks since early in the month.

Presenter Paul Henley introduced the item (from 17:44 here) by referring to Israel’s responses to those attacks which had caused over 80 fires in the two days prior to the broadcast, while failing to clarify to listeners the reason for the anti-terrorism measures imposed by Israel (and Egypt) in the form of the blockade.

_Henley: “Now Israel says it will withhold fuel shipments to Gaza in response to the continued launch of incendiary balloons from the Palestinian territory. This morning Israeli defence forces said they had retaliated against Hamas, striking targets in Gaza including a military compound underground. An Israeli blockade of Gaza has been in place since 2007. A spokesman for Hamas has called this latest withdrawal of vital power supplies a grave act of aggression.”_

However, rather than allowing BBC audiences around the world to hear the views of those affected by the attacks – for example Israeli firefighters, foresters, farmers and members of the civilian population living near the border with the Gaza Strip – ‘Newshour’ instead elected to promote the talking points of a professional anti-Israel activist.

(full article online)









						08/27 Links Pt2: Kontorovich: “Palestinian Position Is One Of Apartheid”; Europe is clinging to the Palestinians; 'Britain wants Israeli hi-tech,' no longer fears Arab reaction;
					

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.




					elderofziyon.blogspot.com


----------



## Sixties Fan

The rioters hurled rocks and firebombs towards the border, and the IDF responded using riot dispersal methods and by firing towards the main rioters.

Twenty-three Gazans were injured, most of them suffering shots to their legs. They have been evacuated to hospitals.

During the clashes, a Gazan attempted to violently steal an IDF soldier's weapon. The attempt was caught on camera.

(full article online)






						Border Police officer critically wounded in Gaza riots
					

First Sergeant B suffers critical injuries during Gaza border riot.




					www.israelnationalnews.com


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

Gaza Fights For Freedom (2019) | Full Documentary | Directed by Abby Martin​


----------



## Hollie

Qualification of Hamas as a Terrorist Organization by the OAS General Secretariat
					

The recent attacks launched by Hamas against the Israeli civilian population undoubtedly constitute attacks of a terrorist nature. Their violence and the objectives they pursue clearly have this characteristic.  Hamas's terrorist aggression is unlimited



					www.oas.org
				




Qualification of Hamas as a Terrorist Organization by the OAS General Secretariat​  May 17, 2021


The recent attacks launched by Hamas against the Israeli civilian population undoubtedly constitute attacks of a terrorist nature. Their violence and the objectives they pursue clearly have this characteristic.

Hamas's terrorist aggression is unlimited and always seeks civilian victims, seeks to escalate conflict dynamics and armed actions, as well as sowing terror among innocent populations, be they Israeli or Palestinian.

The immoral and unworthy use of children and women as human shields, as well as the militarization of residential areas, constitute in themselves acts that deserve the most absolute repudiation and condemnation.

The initiation of attacks of this nature against a country with a clear terrorist objective of its civilian population makes the invocation of the principle of legitimate defense by Israel essential.

The Hamas attacks constitute an attack against the peace and security of Israel and the region and make it imperative to categorize Hamas as a terrorist organization for the General Secretariat of the Organization of American States (OAS).


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> More Israeli talking points.
> 
> Israel is a law free zone. It is the wild west of the middle east.


I'm sure you don't understand that made no sense.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestinians   
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> Gaza Fights For Freedom (2019) | Full Documentary | Directed by Abby Martin​


*(COMMENT)*

Well, I'm not sure what the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) in Gaza are fighting for!

I'm not even sure what the Arab Palestinian population in Gaza are fighting for!

But neither are fighting for freedom.

It would appear that the HoAP are fighting for the right to use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel.

It would also appear that, in part, support the HoAP of Gaza in their attempt to intimidate the Israeli population.  And through this intimidation - compel the Israeli government to further HoAP criminal objectives.

This nonsense about fighting for freedom is simply an excuse.  The Gaza population was given the opportunity for peaceful coexistence in 2005.  It is through their hostile actions since that time, which justified Israel _(and the adjacent Arab neighbors)_ in activating rigid border controls.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestinians
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, I'm not sure what the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) in Gaza are fighting for!
> 
> I'm not even sure what the Arab Palestinian population in Gaza are fighting for!
> 
> But neither are fighting for freedom.
> 
> It would appear that the HoAP are fighting for the right to use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel.
> 
> It would also appear that, in part, support the HoAP of Gaza in their attempt to intimidate the Israeli population.  And through this intimidation - compel the Israeli government to further HoAP criminal objectives.
> 
> This nonsense about fighting for freedom is simply an excuse.  The Gaza population was given the opportunity for peaceful coexistence in 2005.  It is through their hostile actions since that time, which justified Israel _(and the adjacent Arab neighbors)_ in activating rigid border controls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R


Their objectives are clearly Muslim supremacy.

*Hamas promises:*

"On this day, as we are witnessing all that is happening with the grace of Allah, we are looking forwards to two important things, which are within sight:

*Cleanse Palestine of the "filth of the Jews" by 2022*
*From the River to the Sea - establishment of Caliphate*
**


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The Gaza population was given the opportunity for peaceful coexistence in 2005.


----------



## Sixties Fan

Lt. Col. Avichay Adraee, head of the Arab media division of the Israel Defense Forces Spokesperson’s Unit, warned the residents of the Gaza Strip on Wednesday not to heed Hamas’ call to riot along the border with Israel.

Tweeting a photo of two young children, dressed in military garb with war paint on their faces and mock assault rifles in their hands, Adraee wrote in Arabic: “A picture I’d like to share with you of kids at the [recent] ‘peaceful’ demonstration … Isn’t it forbidden to educate them to take up arms? Gaza residents! Today, Hamas is again inviting you to risk your lives. Don’t get close to the fence and don’t use tools of violence and terrorism.”

Adraee’s appeal came four days after hundreds of Palestinians, at the behest of Hamas, staged riots along the border fence in northern Gaza, hurling explosives and firing at Israeli forces, as well as attempting to scale the security barrier.

(full article online)









						IDF Arabic Spokesperson Urges Gazans Not to Heed Hamas Calls for Border Riots
					

Palestinian children compelled to participate in a Hamas military parade. Photo: Twitter. JNS.org – Lt. Col. Avichay Adraee, head of …




					www.algemeiner.com


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


You're befuddled. 

The Israeli unilateral withdrawal from Gaza that occurred approximately a decade and a half ago. 

There are youtube videos.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> You're befuddled.
> 
> The Israeli unilateral withdrawal from Gaza that occurred approximately a decade and a half ago.
> 
> There are youtube videos.


That wasn't the question.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> That wasn't the question.


That was the question.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Older but not wiser.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Israel strikes Gaza after incendiary balloon attacks
					

Israel launched airstrikes against Gaza on Monday, the army and a source inside the enclave said, after incendiary balloons launched from the strip started fires in the country's south.




					news.yahoo.com
				






Israel strikes Gaza after incendiary balloon attacks​





A fireball rises following an Israeli air strike in Khan Yunis in the southern Gaza strip


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Israel strikes Gaza after incendiary balloon attacks
> 
> 
> Israel launched airstrikes against Gaza on Monday, the army and a source inside the enclave said, after incendiary balloons launched from the strip started fires in the country's south.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel strikes Gaza after incendiary balloon attacks​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A fireball rises following an Israeli air strike in Khan Yunis in the southern Gaza strip


Israel blowing up more civilians.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel blowing up more civilians.


Islamic terrorists wage gee-had using human shields.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Islamic terrorists wage gee-had using human shields.


Israel's usual bullshit talking point.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel's usual bullshit talking point.


Your usual, tired, worn slogans.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Your usual, tired, worn slogans.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Your usual retreat to worn, tired, copying and pasting of youtube videos.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


Abuni-lie is desperate for attention

This is getting old...










						Fact Check-Footage of fake injury makeup in Gaza is from 2017 medical training exercise and not linked to the 2021 Israel-Hamas conflict
					

A video of people in Gaza applying fake blood and wound-like makeup is being falsely linked by social media users to the current upsurge in violence between Israel and Gaza. Users claim the video shows Palestinians faking injuries, when in fact, the footage is a simulation...




					www.reuters.com


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Debating with who?


----------



## Sixties Fan

The Israel Defense Forces launched airstrikes in the Gaza Strip late Saturday night in retaliation for airborne arson attacks from the coastal enclave and renewed riots along the border.

The raids on Hamas targets south of Gaza City came hours after two fires were sparked in southern Israel by balloon-borne incendiary devices launched from the Gaza Strip. Hours later, Palestinians resumed clashes with Israeli forces along the Gaza border, as Hamas threatened to step up the cross-border arson attacks from Sunday.

The military said the airstrikes targeted a Hamas military compound used for training and weapon production, and the opening of a “terror tunnel.”

The “night confusion units” behind the border riots do not officially tie themselves to Hamas, though their activities could not take place without the approval of the terror group that rules the Strip.

In the past, Gazans involved in such activities have burned tires, hurled explosive devices, and played fake rocket alert noises in an attempt to confuse Israeli residents living near the border and harass soldiers guarding the border.

The clashes comes despite Israel on Thursday easing some of its restrictions on trade and movement, allowing additional goods and materials to enter Gaza. It also allowed another 1,000 Gazan businessmen to leave through the Erez Crossing with Israel to travel to the West Bank.

(full article online)









						IDF strikes Gaza after violent border riots, airborne arson attack
					

Hamas-run health ministry says 11 Palestinians wounded in renewed clashes; 2 fires sparked in southern Israel by balloon-borne incendiary devices from enclave




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> The Israel Defense Forces launched airstrikes in the Gaza Strip late Saturday night in retaliation for airborne arson attacks from the coastal enclave and renewed riots along the border.
> 
> The raids on Hamas targets south of Gaza City came hours after two fires were sparked in southern Israel by balloon-borne incendiary devices launched from the Gaza Strip. Hours later, Palestinians resumed clashes with Israeli forces along the Gaza border, as Hamas threatened to step up the cross-border arson attacks from Sunday.
> 
> The military said the airstrikes targeted a Hamas military compound used for training and weapon production, and the opening of a “terror tunnel.”
> 
> The “night confusion units” behind the border riots do not officially tie themselves to Hamas, though their activities could not take place without the approval of the terror group that rules the Strip.
> 
> In the past, Gazans involved in such activities have burned tires, hurled explosive devices, and played fake rocket alert noises in an attempt to confuse Israeli residents living near the border and harass soldiers guarding the border.
> 
> The clashes comes despite Israel on Thursday easing some of its restrictions on trade and movement, allowing additional goods and materials to enter Gaza. It also allowed another 1,000 Gazan businessmen to leave through the Erez Crossing with Israel to travel to the West Bank.
> 
> (full article online)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IDF strikes Gaza after violent border riots, airborne arson attack
> 
> 
> Hamas-run health ministry says 11 Palestinians wounded in renewed clashes; 2 fires sparked in southern Israel by balloon-borne incendiary devices from enclave
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com





Sixties Fan said:


> Palestinians resumed clashes with Israeli forces


Is that a euphemism for Israel mowing down unarmed civilians with sniper rifles?


Sixties Fan said:


> In the past, Gazans involved in such activities have burned tires, hurled explosive devices, and played fake rocket alert noises in an attempt to confuse Israeli residents living near the border and harass soldiers guarding the border.


   Keeps those fuckers on their toes.


----------



## Sixties Fan




----------



## Sixties Fan

( Jordan and Egypt occupy Gaza and Judea/Samaria  = Zero demonstrations and attacks on them. 
Muslims are guests of other Muslims and are welcome.
Jews and Christians are Occupiers and must go )

The “night confusion units” behind the border riots do not officially tie themselves to Hamas, though their activities could not take place without the approval of the terror group that rules the Strip.

The groups, which are affiliated with various terror factions, have said that the nightly riots on the border will continue until at least Thursday, starting at around 8 p.m. each evening.

A group linked to the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP) said on Sunday that the violent border “activities will continue and escalate until the occupation stops its aggression and lifts its siege on our people.”

(full article online)









						Gazans burn tires, set off explosives on border for second night in a row
					

'Night confusion units' vow to continue protests until at least Thursday; 18 hurt from IDF fire and tear gas, according to Hamas




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> ( Jordan and Egypt occupy Gaza and Judea/Samaria = Zero demonstrations and attacks on them.


Israel claims that it does not occupy the West Bank because you cannot occupy a territory that did not have a previous sovereign.

So, what previous sovereign did Egypt and Jordan occupy?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel claims that it does not occupy the West Bank because you cannot occupy a territory that did not have a previous sovereign.
> 
> So, what previous sovereign did Egypt and Jordan occupy?


What previous sovereign?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> What previous sovereign?


Indeed, that was the question.


----------



## surada

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Not really a wise thing to do.  Trouble by Sunday, perhaps?
> 
> Hamas to Swarm Israel's Border, Sparking Fear of New 'Passover War'





Roudy said:


> Clint Eastwood style!  Do you feel lucky, Achmed?  Go ahead, make my day!



Israel has never had borders.. since 1967.


----------



## surada

Sixties Fan said:


> Islam cares about land and power, not about their people.



They invest oil revenue in healthcare, education, clean water, business diversity.. I fact, they gave 250,000 Gradschool scholarships in everything from engineering to international law about 5 years ago.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> Clint Eastwood style!  Do you feel lucky, Achmed?  Go ahead, make my day!


Just for fun.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, that was the question.


Indeed. You retreat.


----------



## Sixties Fan

In recent weeks, Hamas and other Palestinian militant factions resumed a campaign of daily violence at the Gaza border by launching incendiary-laden balloons and rioting at the security fence. The resumption of hostilities is a controlled method by factions to apply pressure on Israel to adhere to an ‘understanding regarding the reconstruction of the Gaza Strip and the easement of the blockade,’ according to a Popular Resistance Committees spokesperson. 

Since the start of the border riots in 2018, FDD’s Long War Journal has tracked dozens of Palestinian militants participating in the what is often referred to as the ‘Great March of Return.’ Some militants have been killed as they engaged in attacks against the IDF, others have been wounded during riots and some continue their participation in activities at the border to this day. 

There are two types of ‘protests’ that Hamas sponsors: Daytime and nighttime riots at the security fence and the launching of incendiary-laden balloons towards southern Israel. Both activities have the goal of making daily life difficult for Israeli citizens living adjacent to the border and keeping the IDF engaged with repeated attacks by militants. 

In a recent ‘protest’ at the security fence at the ‘Malakah’ location, east of Gaza City, a militant killed an Israeli border policeman after he shot at him point-blank range. Hamas denied responsibility for the attack but the denial shouldn’t be taken at face value since the group sponsored the event, transported Palestinians to the area where the attack was staged, and has documented history of using its militants to attack IDF soldiers during these ‘protests.’ 

In one example, Osama Duaij, identified more than a year ago by FDD’s Long War Journal as a member of al-Qassam Brigades, died last week after being shot at the security fence during a Hamas-sponsored riot. Hours after his death, al-Qassam Brigades acknowledged Duaij’s death and his membership in the organization.

(full article online)





__





						Analysis: Gaza’s militant-led border riots | FDD's Long War Journal
					

Under the guise of civilian protest, Palestinian factions have waged a military campaign at the Gaza border for more than three years in order to pressure Israel into financial concessions.



					www.longwarjournal.org


----------

