# CNN: Dow DOWN 1000 points



## Contumacious

*Dow falls almost 1000, recovers 600 *

.


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Asia and the Euro are melting down as well 

Maybe electing a Marxist wasn't the best idea we ever had?


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## Care4all

everyone knows gasoline is going to sky rocket, already has up here from this stupid oil gusher....

this will hold us down, keep us in a recession if oil/gas prices go through the roof....  who really knows why this catastrophe should affect the prices RIGHT NOW but of course, somehow, they find a way to hit us with them....now, instead of later, when the loss of this new found oil would have really hit us....


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## KissMy

Yahoo shows DOW plunged from 10875.53 down to 9872.57 That is a 1003 point drop!!!


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## rightwinger

Buy....Buy.....Buy!


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## Gatekeeper

KissMy said:


> Yahoo shows DOW plunged from 10875.53 down to 9872.57 That is a 1003 point drop!!!



Thanks to the administration of _Change_, since, at this rate, that may be all we have left. 

Of course, in my humble opinion, the DOW is an over inflated balloon anyway, the result of many inveiglers who are out to make a few quick bucks anyway they can, as they have done over the decades.


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## KissMy

rightwinger said:


> Buy....Buy.....Buy!



I did. I sold stocks & bought gold on Monday.


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## Old Rocks

At present down less than 500. Not good, but indictutive of the continued fragility of the global economy.


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## rightwinger

KissMy said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Buy....Buy.....Buy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did. I sold stocks & bought gold on Monday.
Click to expand...


Good move....buy US Dollars while they are hot


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## KissMy

rightwinger said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Buy....Buy.....Buy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did. I sold stocks & bought gold on Monday.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good move....buy US Dollars while they are hot
Click to expand...


CNBC reporting a synthetic trading technical glitch. Time to buy stocks. Exxon hit $60 today. Low P/E ratio.


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## Contumacious

rightwinger said:


> Buy....Buy.....Buy!



good advice.

.


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## KissMy

Just picked up 300 shares of Transocean Ltd. (RIG) $68.67 P/E Ratio of 6 Yahoo!!!


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## WillowTree

Threads merged.

URGENT: Dow down nearly 1,000 points at one point, as world reacts to crisis in Greece &#8212; where protesters object to severe budget cuts aimed at securing European bailout



FOXNews.com - Greek Lawmakers Approve Bailout Bill, Dow Plunges


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## rightwinger

Willow...

Aren't there three other threads on this right now??


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## KissMy

CNBC reporting info from multiple sources that Citi Group synthetic trading glitch caused the crash.


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## Dr Gregg

All because of news from Greece. The stock market is so fucking stupid.  


But in an article I found a funny name for an investment broker "Jake Dollarhide"

Can't make that up folks 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/07/business/07markets.html?hp


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## WillowTree

rightwinger said:


> Willow...
> 
> Aren't there three other threads on this right now??



shoot me.


----------



## Vast LWC

Dr Gregg said:


> All because of news from Greece. The stock market is so fucking stupid.
> 
> 
> But in an article I found a funny name for an investment broker "Jake Dollarhide"
> 
> Can't make that up folks



Exactly.

People who don't understand the market, (Yeah I'm talking to you Frank) shouldn't make stupid-assed assumptions about market drops, like in the second post on this thread.


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## KissMy

KissMy said:


> CNBC reporting info from multiple sources that Citi Group synthetic trading glitch caused the crash.



Now CNBC is retracting Citi Trading glitch problem after the market closed. NYSE slowed down trading is why market climbed back. This sucks. Market may drop more tomorrow. If I loose I should sue MSNBC for lying to protect their owners.


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## DavidS

I picked up 200 of P&G @ $42 and sold them @$60. Made a nice $3200 today!


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## Paulie

KissMy said:


> Yahoo shows DOW plunged from 10875.53 down to 9872.57 That is a 1003 point drop!!!



A lot of stop losses were triggered around 10600.

It's not all panic selling.


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## DavidS

Procter & Gamble Company (The) Share Price Chart | PG - Yahoo! Finance

I've never seen anything like this before. Such a sharp, quick drop and then almost as quick of a recovery? Even when the markets plunged when Congress rejected the first version of the bailout bill it took longer than this. This had to have been some kind of error.


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## Paulie

If just one single bank can make an error that can cause a 10% crash, that's fucking scary.

If there's something that needs to be regulated, it's _THAT_.


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## Paulie

I have a hard time believing it was a bank error.

It makes much more sense that there were stop losses triggered, along with a little panic as well.

The market's been long overdue for a good size correction anyway.


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## KissMy

DavidS said:


> I picked up 200 of P&G @ $42 and sold them @$60. Made a nice $3200 today!



It was only at $42 for less than 2 minutes. I smell bullshit.


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## Paulie

If it was a bank error, you guys aren't going to be able to keep any gains.


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## uscitizen

Gold Eagles up well over 100% since I bought mine.

I did some mental calcs and it is actually up around 140 some percent since I bought mine.


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## manu1959

Paulie said:


> If it was a bank error, you guys aren't going to be able to keep any gains.



ya that's fair...banks fuck up and they get my money.....either way i lose


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## uscitizen

All my money is either federally insured or bullion locked in a box.
I got out of the market back before it fell apart.
You remember when the Republibans said everything was fine and we might have a minor adjustment but would be over in a few months.


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## KissMy

uscitizen said:


> Gold Eagles up well over 100% since I bought mine.



Gold is sky rocketing & you get to keep those gains if you hold the actual metal instead of paper. I just keep on buying the stuff check after check. My gold made more money today than my stocks that I bought near the lows. Gold will never go to zero like stocks do. This market is risky.


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## Paulie

manu1959 said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it was a bank error, you guys aren't going to be able to keep any gains.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ya that's fair...banks fuck up and they get my money.....either way i lose
Click to expand...


No one would 'get' anything, per se.

I would imagine the error, if there was one, would be traced back to the moment it happened, and everything after the drop would be null and void.

I've seen broker errors where a stock trade was processed with a decimal point in the wrong place, and for a time your portfolio goes crazy high.  Whatever gains you temporarily had are not kept, though.


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## Douger

rightwinger said:


> Buy....Buy.....Buy!


EL Idiota bleateth..................


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## Toro

Paulie said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo shows DOW plunged from 10875.53 down to 9872.57 That is a 1003 point drop!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of stop losses were triggered around 10600.
> 
> It's not all panic selling.
Click to expand...


Its the "new" panic selling.

So much of the trading is done by machines now, they will exacerbate the sell-off when they hit triggers.  Up to 70% of the trading is done by computers.  Its all momentum, algorithms, high-frequency trading, etc.  No wonder the average investor thinks the markets are rigged against them.  Frankly, I'm hoping some of these fucking machines got wiped out this afternoon.


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## Paulie

S&P broke support at 1144, which certainly triggered a lot of stops.

PG had a lot to do with it too, since a big loss on just one DOW stock can move it 100 points pretty easily.

What concerns me most is that the media is trying to instill fear in people about this being caused by Greece's situation, when the reality is that this was just a rare occasion where a couple different things happened at once and precipitated the automatic sells.

What this is MOST indicative of, is how fragile the market is right now, considering how tight the stop losses actually ARE these days.

This all being said, the smart money is _buying_ tomorrow.


----------



## DavidS

KissMy said:


> DavidS said:
> 
> 
> 
> I picked up 200 of P&G @ $42 and sold them @$60. Made a nice $3200 today!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was only at $42 for less than 2 minutes. I smell bullshit.
Click to expand...


It's called having a quick finger.


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## DavidS

Paulie said:


> If it was a bank error, you guys aren't going to be able to keep any gains.



Fucking NYSE canceled all trades for the 20 minute swing. I'm calling my lawyer in the morning.

NYSE Arca to cancel multiple trades | Reuters


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## DavidS

Paulie said:


> S&P broke support at 1144, which certainly triggered a lot of stops.
> 
> PG had a lot to do with it too, since a big loss on just one DOW stock can move it 100 points pretty easily.
> 
> What concerns me most is that the media is trying to instill fear in people about this being caused by Greece's situation, when the reality is that this was just a rare occasion where a couple different things happened at once and precipitated the automatic sells.
> 
> What this is MOST indicative of, is how fragile the market is right now, considering how tight the stop losses actually ARE these days.
> 
> This all being said, the smart money is _buying_ tomorrow.



We'll see. The VIX is at 32 and futures are down double digits. God, this is 2008 all over again. Unemployment report is supposed to come out tomorrow. With all the census workers being hired, I wonder how good everything will be.


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## Paulie

DavidS said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it was a bank error, you guys aren't going to be able to keep any gains.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fucking NYSE canceled all trades for the 20 minute swing. I'm calling my lawyer in the morning.
> 
> NYSE Arca to cancel multiple trades | Reuters
Click to expand...


I told you guys.

The VIX is no indication of anything specific at this point in time though.  It's up for the obvious reason.

This is not 2008 all over again, either.  2008 there was an actual REASON for a sell-off.  The 2008 sell-off was not just a 1-hour stop loss trigger fest, it was straight up consistent real-time selling because banks went bust.

You're not looking at this critically, you're reactibg on emotion.

This was nothing.  It has all classic signs of stop losses.  The huge buyback afterwards is the clear indication.


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## Toro

Paulie said:


> This all being said, the smart money is _buying_ tomorrow.



Gee, I don't know...


----------



## DavidS

Paulie said:


> DavidS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it was a bank error, you guys aren't going to be able to keep any gains.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fucking NYSE canceled all trades for the 20 minute swing. I'm calling my lawyer in the morning.
> 
> NYSE Arca to cancel multiple trades | Reuters
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I told you guys.
> 
> The VIX is no indication of anything specific at this point in time though.  It's up for the obvious reason.
> 
> This is not 2008 all over again, either.  2008 there was an actual REASON for a sell-off.  The 2008 sell-off was not just a 1-hour stop loss trigger fest, it was straight up consistent real-time selling because banks went bust.
> 
> You're not looking at this critically, you're reactibg on emotion.
> 
> This was nothing.  It has all classic signs of stop losses.  The huge buyback afterwards is the clear indication.
Click to expand...


If we don't add at least 200,000 jobs to the economy tomorrow, it's going to be a bloody day.


----------



## Paulie

DavidS said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DavidS said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fucking NYSE canceled all trades for the 20 minute swing. I'm calling my lawyer in the morning.
> 
> NYSE Arca to cancel multiple trades | Reuters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I told you guys.
> 
> The VIX is no indication of anything specific at this point in time though.  It's up for the obvious reason.
> 
> This is not 2008 all over again, either.  2008 there was an actual REASON for a sell-off.  The 2008 sell-off was not just a 1-hour stop loss trigger fest, it was straight up consistent real-time selling because banks went bust.
> 
> You're not looking at this critically, you're reactibg on emotion.
> 
> This was nothing.  It has all classic signs of stop losses.  The huge buyback afterwards is the clear indication.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If we don't add at least 200,000 jobs to the economy tomorrow, it's going to be a bloody day.
Click to expand...


We'll see.

There's a lot of people who made an ultra-quick 7% today.  There will be some profit taking tomorrow being that it's friday, but it's not going to be a blood bath.


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## blu

what a bunch of retards blaming it on obama, it was a typo thats fixed now


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## DavidS

blu said:


> what a bunch of retards blaming it on obama, it was a typo thats fixed now



Ok, so here I am, an Arab terrorist with a lot of money... what do I do? I go in and buy up a lot of stocks and one day, when we're already having a bad day, I push a B instead of an M and investors lose trillions of dollars?!?!?! Are there no sageguards protecting us against something like this? All someone has to do is "hit the wrong button" and we lose trillions?? We are, supposedly the most advanced country in the world and we have nothing to protect us against this?


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## dilloduck

DavidS said:


> blu said:
> 
> 
> 
> what a bunch of retards blaming it on obama, it was a typo thats fixed now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, so here I am, an Arab terrorist with a lot of money... what do I do? I go in and buy up a lot of stocks and one day, when we're already having a bad day, I push a B instead of an M and investors lose trillions of dollars?!?!?! Are there no sageguards protecting us against something like this? All someone has to do is "hit the wrong button" and we lose trillions?? We are, supposedly the most advanced country in the world and we have nothing to protect us against this?
Click to expand...


no----the gamblers like the game just like it is.


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## KissMy

There is more to this downturn than the media is letting on. First the Greece fire got things going. Then P&G dismissed reports that their new Pampers chemical burns on children after the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission said it launched a probe into P&Gs new diapers after some parents complained that they appeared to be the cause of rashes and chemical burns on their children. NYSE: PG, MMM Tripped Circuit also yesterday Market Intellisearch identified the start of a new bearish trend for 3M Co. Bearish Trading Activity for 3M Co. (MMM)

This got the market plunging tripping stop loss triggers. Then the NYSE slowed trading & came up with the story of how a trading error occurred. We have never heard who this fat-fingered trader was that errored & what "major firm" was he trading for. This smells of the Plunge Protection Team stepping in to stem the bleeding. Who knows what the truth is. The government SEC is totally incompetent. For all we know governments around the world may be selling to stabilize their own economies.


----------



## KissMy

*The Plunge Protection Team in action*

NYT: U.S. Markets Plunge, Then Stage a Rebound



> Treasury secretary, Timothy F. Geithner, was returning to the Treasury about 2 p.m. from the Capitol when he saw on his BlackBerry that the market was down 3 percent. He called the Treasurys market room, which constantly monitors financial exchanges; officials there theorized that the cause was Greeces and Europes financial woes.
> 
> Minutes later in the Treasury hallway, Mr. Geithner looked again at his BlackBerry and saw that the market was down nearly 9 percent. He told colleagues it had to be a mistake.
> 
> Mr. Geithner immediately called the market room and then the Federal Reserve. He held a conference call with Fed officials and Mary L. Schapiro, the chairwoman of the Securities and Exchange Commission. About 3:15, Mr. Geithner walked to the Oval Office to brief President Obama.
> 
> Next Mr. Geithner spoke with European central bankers. After the markets closed, at 4:15 and again at 5:45, he joined conference calls with the heads of the Fed, the New York Fed, the S.E.C. and the Commodity Futures Trading Commission; the calls were expected to continue into the evening.
> 
> The Group of 7 industrial nations ministers and governors, including Mr. Geithner, plan a conference call at 7:30 a.m. Friday Eastern time.
> 
> As of about 6 p.m., all the officials knew was that there had been what one called a huge, anomalous, unexplained surge in selling, it looks like in Chicago, at about 2:45. The source remained unknown, but it had apparently set off algorithmic trading strategies, which in turn rippled across everything, pushing trading out of whack and feeding on itself  until it started to reverse.
> 
> Federal officials fielded rumors that the culprit was a single stock, a single institution or execution system, a $16 billion trade that should have been $16 million. But they did not know the truth.


----------



## Care4all

it's been on the news all morning....a 16 million share sell was put in as a 16 billion sell of procter and gamble, the electronic system then took over and the market dropped the 1000, then it got corrected and the market closed at 300 down...

what a SHAM of a market, where a basic typo would set off this temporary crash and sell off....

the dow is a joke, the nasdaq is too


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## Mr. H.

Trades should be like Google searches. "Did you mean: _million_?"


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## KissMy

Job growth +290,000 Jobs

Dollar rallied

Yen plunged


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## editec

CrusaderFrank said:


> Asia and the Euro are melting down as well
> 
> Maybe electing a Marxist wasn't the best idea we ever had?


 

Perhaps having had a POTUS that was a damned fool that pissed away FEDERAL budget on stupid wars, and tax breaks for billionaires might have something to do with the current state of the economy?

Or how about free trade destroying the USA's industrial (thus its tax) base for the last 40 years might have something do with it, too?

No it all has to do, according to your perverted POV, with the election of Obama.

This current short term meltdown is mostly about fears in Europe and (according to what I've read) a glitch in the system once the trading moved from NYSE to electronic trading.

It might be a buyer's opportunity, ya know.

Jesus, you're a tool, lad.

You really do need to learn _something_ about macro-economics.


----------



## KissMy

editec said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Asia and the Euro are melting down as well
> 
> Maybe electing a Marxist wasn't the best idea we ever had?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps having had a POTUS that was a damned fool that pissed away FEDERAL budget on stupid wars, and tax breaks for billionaires might have something to do with the current state of the economy?
> 
> Or how about free trade destroying the USA's industrial (thus its tax) base for the last 40 years might have something do with it, too?
> 
> No it all has to do, according to your perverted POV, with the election of Obama.
> 
> This current short term meltdown is mostly about fears in Europe and (according to what I've read) a glitch in the system once the trading moved from NYSE to electronic trading.
> 
> It might be a buyer's opportunity, ya know.
> 
> Jesus, you're a tool, lad.
> 
> You really do need to learn _something_ about macro-economics.
Click to expand...


Bull Shit. The USA was the first country to crash thus we are the first to work through the bubble. Europe followed & now China is ready to plunge. This is the tail trying to wag the dog. We were first in & will be first out.


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## KissMy

Foreign currency crisis creating a strong Dollar that is killing stocks. Congress is involved. Smart money said Sell in May & go away.


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## Zander

Paulie said:


> S&P broke support at 1144, which certainly triggered a lot of stops.
> 
> PG had a lot to do with it too, since a big loss on just one DOW stock can move it 100 points pretty easily.
> 
> What concerns me most is that the media is trying to instill fear in people about this being caused by Greece's situation, when the reality is that this was just a rare occasion where a couple different things happened at once and precipitated the automatic sells.
> 
> What this is MOST indicative of, is how fragile the market is right now, considering how tight the stop losses actually ARE these days.
> 
> This all being said, the smart money is _buying_ tomorrow.



Sorry Paulie, but the _smart_ money is sitting in cash or short term treasuries, and has been for the last 3-4 months.


----------



## Toro

Smart money's buying gold, Zander.


----------



## Douger

Who cares ? The Shock Market is for Jews and idiots.
Jews make money spending idiots money and trading over and over again.
You win ? They win.
You lose ? They win.
Poyfikt I tell ya, poyfikt.


----------



## Toro

Douger said:


> Who cares ? The Shock Market is for Jews and idiots.
> Jews make money spending idiots money and trading over and over again.
> You win ? They win.
> You lose ? They win.
> Poyfikt I tell ya, poyfikt.



So not cool.


----------



## Zander

Toro said:


> Smart money's buying gold, Zander.



Smart money has an asset allocation plan. If that plan calls for gold  - they'll own it and periodically rebalance to their preset percentages.  Otherwise it's not "smart" money at all.


----------



## Contumacious

Paulie said:


> I have a hard time believing it was a bank error.
> 
> It makes much more sense that there were stop losses triggered, along with a little panic as well.
> 
> The market's been long overdue for a good size correction anyway.



The experts are saying that the market crashed. How much longer before the zombified demands that the Federal Reserve Board be abolished.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.


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## Truthmatters

I just cant help but wonder about it being a cyber attack.


----------



## Toro

Zander said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Smart money's buying gold, Zander.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smart money has an asset allocation plan. If that plan calls for gold  - they'll own it and periodically rebalance to their preset percentages.  Otherwise it's not "smart" money at all.
Click to expand...


Meh, not for me.  Asset allocation got, what, 3%, 4% p.a. the past decade?

Sometimes its best to be heavily in stocks.  Sometimes bonds.  Sometimes cash.  Sometimes gold.  

But only if you know what you are doing.


----------



## Zander

Toro said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Smart money's buying gold, Zander.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smart money has an asset allocation plan. If that plan calls for gold  - they'll own it and periodically rebalance to their preset percentages.  Otherwise it's not "smart" money at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Meh, not for me.  Asset allocation got, what, 3%, 4% p.a. the past decade?
> 
> Sometimes its best to be heavily in stocks.  Sometimes bonds.  Sometimes cash.  Sometimes gold.
> 
> But only if you know what you are doing.
Click to expand...


When you have a crystal ball that works - give me a call. Until then I'll stick with my "mostly" passive strategy.  I value preservation of capital more than growth at this time in my life and I don't take unneccesary risk.


----------



## Toro

I'd recommend a passive strategy to most people, with a twist.


----------



## KissMy

KissMy said:


> There is more to this downturn than the media is letting on. First the Greece fire got things going. Then P&G dismissed reports that their new Pampers chemical burns on children after the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission said it launched a probe into P&Gs new diapers after some parents complained that they appeared to be the cause of rashes and chemical burns on their children. NYSE: PG, MMM Tripped Circuit also yesterday Market Intellisearch identified the start of a new bearish trend for 3M Co. Bearish Trading Activity for 3M Co. (MMM)
> 
> This got the market plunging tripping stop loss triggers. Then the NYSE slowed trading & came up with the story of how a trading error occurred. We have never heard who this fat-fingered trader was that errored & what "major firm" was he trading for. This smells of the Plunge Protection Team stepping in to stem the bleeding. Who knows what the truth is. The government SEC is totally incompetent. For all we know governments around the world may be selling to stabilize their own economies.



In talking with my friends last evening about the market crash. I brought the subject of this P&G Pampers chemical burn & the rural nurse said she had seen 15 cases of this in the past week at her hospital. She said it is for real & P&G is lying.


----------



## KissMy

Market to open up 400 due to Europe bailout. Sell into the 3rd biggest opening rally on wall street. This sugar rush will end.


----------



## KissMy

Turns out there was no "Fat Fingered Trader", no "computer glitch", no "market manipulation". That was a legit market crash. The manipulation was done by government & their media partners to cover this up & blame it on some BS. So now we have moved into price fixing stocks & Rule 48.

Market traded around 9900 this morning before Germany passed the Europe bailout. We will likely rally for a while now on that Trillion dollars. After that crack fix wears off in a few months trouble will return with a vengeance.


----------



## Zander

KissMy said:


> Turns out there was no "Fat Fingered Trader", no "computer glitch", no "market manipulation". That was a legit market crash. The manipulation was done by government & their media partners to cover this up & blame it on some BS. So now we have moved into price fixing stocks & Rule 48.
> 
> Market traded around 9900 this morning before Germany passed the Europe bailout. We will likely rally for a while now on that Trillion dollars. After that crack fix wears off in a few months trouble will return with a vengeance.



Maybe a few months, maybe a few weeks, maybe a few days. Either way, I am prepared for the huge sell off that has been shaping up since August 09. This market is trending one direction..........down.


----------



## KissMy

TD Ameritrade would not allow customers to sell yesterday saying it was a computer problem. The BS just never stops. Charts are showing one shoulder & head of the dreaded head & shoulders pattern. If this bounce does not last then look out below because the double dip is on the way.

WOW the Plunge Protection Team really kicked the market up the last hour of trading to keep that DOW 10,000+ headline going over the weekend. Way to go government manipulators.


----------



## Toro

KissMy said:


> TD Ameritrade would not allow customers to sell yesterday saying it was a computer problem. The BS just never stops. Charts are showing one shoulder & head of the dreaded head & shoulders pattern. If this bounce does not last then look out below because the double dip is on the way.



That's nonsense.  I've been a client of Ameritrade for years, and I was trading yesterday.  I heard that the system went down but the idea that Ameritrade was complicit in some conspiracy is ridiculous.


----------



## KissMy

Toro said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> TD Ameritrade would not allow customers to sell yesterday saying it was a computer problem. The BS just never stops. Charts are showing one shoulder & head of the dreaded head & shoulders pattern. If this bounce does not last then look out below because the double dip is on the way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's nonsense.  I've been a client of Ameritrade for years, and I was trading yesterday.  I heard that the system went down but the idea that Ameritrade was complicit in some conspiracy is ridiculous.
Click to expand...


Were you selling or buying yesterday? My uncle could not sell on Ameritrade yesterday.


----------



## Toro

KissMy said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> TD Ameritrade would not allow customers to sell yesterday saying it was a computer problem. The BS just never stops. Charts are showing one shoulder & head of the dreaded head & shoulders pattern. If this bounce does not last then look out below because the double dip is on the way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's nonsense.  I've been a client of Ameritrade for years, and I was trading yesterday.  I heard that the system went down but the idea that Ameritrade was complicit in some conspiracy is ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Were you selling or buying yesterday? My uncle could not sell on Ameritrade yesterday.
Click to expand...


I was hedged out and I was covering my hedges.  I think we're going to bounce then fall further, but I could be completely wrong.

In the flash crash, I tried to cover some of my inverse leveraged ETFs, that were soaring as the market collapsed, but I couldn't get filled.


----------



## william the wie

Toro said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's nonsense.  I've been a client of Ameritrade for years, and I was trading yesterday.  I heard that the system went down but the idea that Ameritrade was complicit in some conspiracy is ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Were you selling or buying yesterday? My uncle could not sell on Ameritrade yesterday.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was hedged out and I was covering my hedges.  I think we're going to bounce then fall further, but I could be completely wrong.
> 
> In the flash crash, I tried to cover some of my inverse leveraged ETFs, that were soaring as the market collapsed, but I couldn't get filled.
Click to expand...

Well I was able to lock in on my 120 XSP June straddles at 105 at zero additional possible loss. It cost me 7.5 for 2 contracts to get in at 120 and 10 for 3 contracts at 105 so I lose no more than my original 15 no matter what June closes at. However my ass is still flapping in the breeze for my Dec 120. I just hope we hit 103- soon.


----------



## Toro

Vol is back.  We are extremely oversold, and I expect a bounce on Mutual Fund Monday, but I take the Flash Crash very seriously, and assume it portends something bad.  If I'm wrong, and its not bad, no problem, but I ain't taking any chances.


----------



## SFC Ollie

I do not own any stock, I do not follow the market that close, I probably couldn't name 10 stocks in the Dow or S&P.

So one of you tell me how the market drops like this as soon as the Senate starts talking about regulating Wall St?


----------



## Toro

SFC Ollie said:


> I do not own any stock, I do not follow the market that close, I probably couldn't name 10 stocks in the Dow or S&P.
> 
> So one of you tell me how the market drops like this as soon as the Senate starts talking about regulating Wall St?



Same reason why the stock market got crushed when Scott Brown was elected - happenstance.

The market is going down because of the turmoil in Europe.  Financial regulation may be weighing on some financial stocks but it isn't a reason for the broad market's decline.


----------



## william the wie

SFC Ollie said:


> I do not own any stock, I do not follow the market that close, I probably couldn't name 10 stocks in the Dow or S&P.
> 
> So one of you tell me how the market drops like this as soon as the Senate starts talking about regulating Wall St?


The US is not the only country pushing for financial reform. China, the UK, Germany and the EU as a whole have either enacted or have proposed financial reform. So while I agree with Toro it is quite sensible to be scared about how all these reforms will interact but I suspect that most of the smart money got out earlier in anticipation of the coming mess. All of these uncoordinated reforms are likely to cause huge SNAFUBARs as European banks try to operate here and our banks try to operate there. 

One hint the DJIA = 1 oz of gold is a very dependable signal of a market bottom. If that happens buy an index fund(s) and ride it until late April. You may not make huge returns but unless both gold and the DJIA both tank you are extremely unlikely to lose money.


----------



## Big Bad Bob

The recent stock market drop was a GREAT buying opportunity.

I'd recommend 2 real good stocks that you would be wise to buy at this time.
Coach COH buy it below $40.00 It's a gift. It's going to see $55.00 in a few months or less.
Coach stock has been showing support around 44.50 and resistance in the 49.20 range.  A great buy at this price

And to make a fast score buy AVB (Avalon Bay Communities) but this baby anywhere below $100.00... It's good for $140.00


----------



## efresh

Smart investors would have known why it is dropping like this and look for buy back opportunities....


----------



## KissMy

Truthmatters said:


> I just cant help but wonder about it being a cyber attack.



It is a shocker that Truthmatters may be onto something.

It is being widely reported today that the "FLASH CRASH" of May 6th, may have been Engineered Market Manipulation.


----------



## saveliberty

All the more reason to sit on cash.


----------



## Paulie

Big Bad Bob said:


> The recent stock market drop was a GREAT buying opportunity.
> 
> I'd recommend 2 real good stocks that you would be wise to buy at this time.
> Coach COH buy it below $40.00 It's a gift. It's going to see $55.00 in a few months or less.
> Coach stock has been showing support around 44.50 and resistance in the 49.20 range.  A great buy at this price
> 
> And to make a fast score buy AVB (Avalon Bay Communities) but this baby anywhere below $100.00... It's good for $140.00



This is retarded.

At the time you wrote this, those support and resistance levels had already broken down and formed new lower ones.

Here's a great stock tip, guys...don't take stock tips from this dude.


----------



## Zander

Anyone that would take a stock tip from some anonymous dude on the internet is a fool and deserves to be fleeced. I'm just sayin'.......................


----------



## saveliberty

Paulie said:


> Big Bad Bob said:
> 
> 
> 
> The recent stock market drop was a GREAT buying opportunity.
> 
> I'd recommend 2 real good stocks that you would be wise to buy at this time.
> Coach COH buy it below $40.00 It's a gift. It's going to see $55.00 in a few months or less.
> Coach stock has been showing support around 44.50 and resistance in the 49.20 range.  A great buy at this price
> 
> And to make a fast score buy AVB (Avalon Bay Communities) but this baby anywhere below $100.00... It's good for $140.00
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is retarded.
> 
> At the time you wrote this, those support and resistance levels had already broken down and formed new lower ones.
> 
> Here's a great stock tip, guys...don't take stock tips from this dude.
Click to expand...


Yep, I interpret it as, hey, I got stuck with a bunch of bad stock.  Got some spare cash?

Buy what you know.


----------



## Paulie

Zander said:


> Anyone that would take a stock tip from some anonymous dude on the internet is a fool and deserves to be fleeced. I'm just sayin'.......................



There's nothing wrong with taking it into consideration and doing some due diligence.  It's not like anonymous people don't have good ideas too.

But a quick look at the Coach chart showed that the guy was an idiot.


----------



## Zander

Paulie said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone that would take a stock tip from some anonymous dude on the internet is a fool and deserves to be fleeced. I'm just sayin'.......................
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing wrong with taking it into consideration and doing some due diligence.  It's not like anonymous people don't have good ideas too.
> 
> But a quick look at the Coach chart showed that the guy was an idiot.
Click to expand...


We agree.......although I think for _most _investors individual stocks are a lousy bet. They'd be better off with low cost index funds.


----------



## Toro

Paulie said:


> Big Bad Bob said:
> 
> 
> 
> The recent stock market drop was a GREAT buying opportunity.
> 
> I'd recommend 2 real good stocks that you would be wise to buy at this time.
> Coach COH buy it below $40.00 It's a gift. It's going to see $55.00 in a few months or less.
> Coach stock has been showing support around 44.50 and resistance in the 49.20 range.  A great buy at this price
> 
> And to make a fast score buy AVB (Avalon Bay Communities) but this baby anywhere below $100.00... It's good for $140.00
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is retarded.
> 
> At the time you wrote this, those support and resistance levels had already broken down and formed new lower ones.
> 
> Here's a great stock tip, guys...don't take stock tips from this dude.
Click to expand...


I agree.

However, AVB is up $10 since he made that call while COH is down a few bucks.  Net net, he made money, at least today.


----------



## MikeK

And the Republicans want to privatize Social Security.


----------



## Zander

MikeK said:


> And the Republicans want to privatize Social Security.



Why not? It is your money isn't it?  If a person is willing to take the risk of investing their own money and opting out of Social Security, why should you care?


----------



## uscitizen

Zander said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the Republicans want to privatize Social Security.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not? It is your money isn't it?  If a person is willing to take the risk of investing their own money and opting out of Social Security, why should you care?
Click to expand...


I would rather opt out of any of my tax dollars being used for war and such as well.

SS is not a 401k it is an insurance policy.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

uscitizen said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the Republicans want to privatize Social Security.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not? It is your money isn't it?  If a person is willing to take the risk of investing their own money and opting out of Social Security, why should you care?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would rather opt out of any of my tax dollars being used for war and such as well.
> 
> SS is not a 401k it is an insurance policy.
Click to expand...


Who can handle your money better you or the government?


----------



## Paulie

bigrebnc1775 said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why not? It is your money isn't it?  If a person is willing to take the risk of investing their own money and opting out of Social Security, why should you care?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would rather opt out of any of my tax dollars being used for war and such as well.
> 
> SS is not a 401k it is an insurance policy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who can handle your money better you or the government?
Click to expand...

Let's see..

I have a savings, and the government spent all its money and owes 13 trillion.

I'll get back to you on it.


----------



## KissMy

MikeK said:


> And the Republicans want to privatize Social Security.



So, What's your point?

Do you think the stock market is the only place people invest?

People invest in land, farms, homes, utilities, oil, energy, business, gold & commodities.


----------



## rdean

Aug 23
Open 10,215.51
Close  10,174.41

-39.21 (-0.38%)

Yes, it's obviously time to panic.


----------



## KissMy

rdean said:


> Aug 23
> Open 10,215.51
> Close  10,174.41
> 
> -39.21 (-0.38%)
> 
> Yes, it's obviously time to panic.



Please try & keep-up. No one is in a panic over todays drop. Investors are worried about how rigged the stock market is due to the "FLASH CRASH" of May 6th 2010.


----------



## Paulie

KissMy said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aug 23
> Open 10,215.51
> Close  10,174.41
> 
> -39.21 (-0.38%)
> 
> Yes, it's obviously time to panic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please try & keep-up. No one is in a panic over todays drop. Investors are worried about how rigged the stock market is due to the "FLASH CRASH" of May 6th 2010.
Click to expand...

What's sad is that it took this long for them to figure it out.


----------



## KissMy

Paulie said:


> What's sad is that it took this long for them to figure it out.



Even sadder still is the fact that they are still baffled.

The New York Times: Stock Swing Still Baffles, With an Ominous Tone


----------



## william the wie

KissMy said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's sad is that it took this long for them to figure it out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even sadder still is the fact that they are still baffled.
> 
> The New York Times: Stock Swing Still Baffles, With an Ominous Tone
Click to expand...

What is bizarre is that there should be a replicated fractal pattern for all of the patterns being discovered by this kind of analysis so where's the data on that? Does it replicate 1987, 1929, 08 or what? If it doesn't HFT is not the problem but more likely a cyber attack by China or Russia is to blame with buggy programming being the lesser probability.


----------



## MikeK

Zander said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the Republicans want to privatize Social Security.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not? It is your money isn't it?  If a person is willing to take the risk of investing their own money and opting out of Social Security, why should you care?
Click to expand...

Anyone with a shred of common sense should care because the Social Security system was designed to work the way it's been working for over seventy years without a problem.  Allowing ill-advised and voluntary options will undermine it.  As it is, if the Republicans were allowed to go along with Bush and privatize the System it would be in the toilet today along with all the 401K plans and other stock market investments that went down. 

Social Security is a good thing and it should not be tampered with.  All it needs is legislation to forbid the Congress from accessing its fund for any reason.


----------



## Zander

MikeK said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the Republicans want to privatize Social Security.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not? It is your money isn't it?  If a person is willing to take the risk of investing their own money and opting out of Social Security, why should you care?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Anyone with a shred of common sense should care because the Social Security system was designed to work the way it's been working for over seventy years without a problem.  Allowing ill-advised and voluntary options will undermine it.  As it is, if the Republicans were allowed to go along with Bush and privatize the System it would be in the toilet today along with all the 401K plans and other stock market investments that went down.
> 
> Social Security is a good thing and it should not be tampered with.  All it needs is legislation to forbid the Congress from accessing its fund for any reason.
Click to expand...


Yeah, right. Congress has been spending the "surplus" from Social Security from the day it began.  The worthlkess IOU's that the Fed holds aren't worth a cent. They are promises to pay dollars backed by promises to pay dollars.  How comforting! Congress won't be changing anything soon -after all Social Security is the "3rd rail" of American politics.  

In reality it nothing but a gigantic Ponzi scheme that is coming to the end of the con.  The system will be insolvent in less than 7 years  according to the latest reports..  If you are under 50 and counting on getting Social Security you may be deeply disappointed.  

I'd rather take "PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY" for my life.  Some people have a hard time with the concept......they count on the government for everything.  "Why save for the future", they ask? "I have Social Security to bail me out!"  

 I'd trade the promise of Social Security for the cash paid in my name to date any time. I have ZERO faith in the system.  Ponzi schemes always fail......eventually.  Good luck! 

PS - the Amish and Menonites opted out of the Ponzi, er I mean, Social Security system a long time ago -  along with a three counties in Texas -Galveston, Brazoria, and Matagorda. The Texas counties use a private pension plan created and administered by First Financial Benefits, Inc.  These lucky employees get a far more generous payout....


> * Workers making $17,000 a year are expected to receive about 50 percent more per month on our alternative plan than on Social Security - $1,036 instead of $683. [See the Figure.]
> * Workers making $26,000 a year will make almost double Social Security's return - $1,500 instead of $853.
> * Workers making $51,000 a year will get $3,103 instead of $1,368.
> * Workers making $75,000 or more will nearly triple Social Security - $4,540 instead of $1,645.
> * Galveston County's survivorship benefits pay four times a worker's annual salary - a minimum of $75,000 to a maximum $215,000 - versus Social Security, which forces widows to wait until age 60 to qualify for benefits, or provides 75 percent of a worker's salary for school-age children.


----------



## Paulie

Zander you still in cash?


----------



## Zander

Paulie said:


> Zander you still in cash?



I am 100% Short term T-bills - not much yield - but oh so safe. 

That being said, I recently put an offer in for a foreclosure.....there are some bargains out there on REO properties.


----------



## Paulie

Zander said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zander you still in cash?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am 100% Short term T-bills - not much yield - but oh so safe.
> 
> That being said, I recently put an offer in for a foreclosure.....there are some bargains out there on REO properties.
Click to expand...


Yeah, it's probably the best place to be for protecting the downside.  FWIW, I never really disagreed with it in the long term.  I just thought you were missing out on opportunities in equities from a trading standpoint.  There's been some swing plays that have been decent.  C was good for 30+% this year after their equity offering for instance, and there's been money to make in some ETF's.

Not to mention short plays as well.


----------



## Zander

Paulie said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zander you still in cash?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am 100% Short term T-bills - not much yield - but oh so safe.
> 
> That being said, I recently put an offer in for a foreclosure.....there are some bargains out there on REO properties.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, it's probably the best place to be for protecting the downside.  FWIW, I never really disagreed with it in the long term.  I just thought you were missing out on opportunities in equities from a trading standpoint.  There's been some swing plays that have been decent.  C was good for 30+% this year after their equity offering for instance, and there's been money to make in some ETF's.
> 
> Not to mention short plays as well.
Click to expand...

I am not really much of  a trader. I was a commodities broker with a Series 3 license for a few years - I learned a lot about my personal risk tolerance - I learned that I don't have much tolerance for risk! 

 My plan has been really simple and effective -  I held roughly 60% stocks and 40% bonds (i had some REIT and commodity funds in there too)  in low cost index funds. I rebalanced with new money on a regular basis.  Last year I started to get nervous about the downside risk (we had recovered to about the same point we are now)  - So I moved to 100% T-bills last year - I have no regrets.  I plan on going back into stocks and bonds at some point, but just not right now.  Too much uncertainty IMHO.  I expect September to be a down month - it is historically a very bad month for stocks...... Bonds are due for a crash as well.  Yep, I like cash.......I can sleep at night and I have lots of dry powder!! Best of luck!


----------



## KissMy

On July 15th Charles Nenner predicted the  DOW would drop to 5000 in 2 years. He said stocks would peak in August 2010 & then decline to DOW 5000 sometime over the next 2 years.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRyfwjoeLz8&feature=related"]July 15th 2010 Charles Nenner on CNBC: Dow 5,000 [/ame]


----------



## KissMy

Paulie said:


> Yeah, it's probably the best place to be for protecting the downside.  FWIW, I never really disagreed with it in the long term.  I just thought you were missing out on opportunities in equities from a trading standpoint.  There's been some swing plays that have been decent.  *C was good for 30+% this year after their equity offering* for instance, and there's been money to make in some ETF's.
> 
> Not to mention short plays as well.



Citigroup Is Cooking the Books


> Analyst, Mike Mayo, of the securities firm CLSA, has been telling investors that Citigroup (C) should take a writedown, or a loss on some $50 billion of deferred-tax assets, or DTAs. That is a tax credit the firm has on its financial statement that Mayo says is inflating profits at the big bank by as much as $10 billion.


----------



## KissMy

Paulie said:


> Yeah, it's probably the best place to be for protecting the downside.  FWIW, I never really disagreed with it in the long term.  I just thought you were missing out on opportunities in equities from a trading standpoint.  There's been some swing plays that have been decent.  C was good for 30+% this year after their equity offering for instance, and there's been money to make in some ETF's.
> 
> Not to mention short plays as well.



Hows that CitiGroup (C) stock working out for ya? Investing on hope & change does not make any cents does it?

Investing in gold on Obama's election day has made me 75% & a shit pile of real value, not some worthless POS paper like you have. Obamac*rats* have no clue how to run a country other than print money & reward scumbags while they penalize the responsible honest hard working people. Their only goal is to spread the wealth to 3rd world nations & take us down to their level to achieve a global Social Justice. Raise Taxes, Increased Overpaid Union & Government Jobs, Capping Carbon in the USA, Raising Energy Prices, Increased Hostile Restriction Regulations & Healthcare all to force Jobs out this Country. Al Gore & Clinton pushed NAFTA through & signed Kyoto carbon cap to reduce Americans lifestyle in order to help the Mexicans increase theirs. Business is leaving this country in droves to escape the hostile business climate in the USA.


----------



## rdean

10,009.73
 -140.92 (-1.39%) 
Aug 30 - Close


----------



## Mad Scientist

rdean said:


> 10,009.73
> -140.92 (-1.39%)
> Aug 30 - Close


So it'll be up today right? That seems to be the cycle.


----------



## Zander




----------



## Paulie

KissMy said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, it's probably the best place to be for protecting the downside.  FWIW, I never really disagreed with it in the long term.  I just thought you were missing out on opportunities in equities from a trading standpoint.  There's been some swing plays that have been decent.  C was good for 30+% this year after their equity offering for instance, and there's been money to make in some ETF's.
> 
> Not to mention short plays as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hows that CitiGroup (C) stock working out for ya? Investing on hope & change does not make any cents does it?
> 
> Investing in gold on Obama's election day has made me 75% & a shit pile of real value, not some worthless POS paper like you have. Obamac*rats* have no clue how to run a country other than print money & reward scumbags while they penalize the responsible honest hard working people. Their only goal is to spread the wealth to 3rd world nations & take us down to their level to achieve a global Social Justice. Raise Taxes, Increased Overpaid Union & Government Jobs, Capping Carbon in the USA, Raising Energy Prices, Increased Hostile Restriction Regulations & Healthcare all to force Jobs out this Country. Al Gore & Clinton pushed NAFTA through & signed Kyoto carbon cap to reduce Americans lifestyle in order to help the Mexicans increase theirs. Business is leaving this country in droves to escape the hostile business climate in the USA.
Click to expand...


I didn't buy C, I just used it as an example. When they issued stock earlier in the year it was evident that it would be a decent play, and it was. When it went from 3 to 4, you'd have beeb an idiot not to take it off the table.  30% isn't bad in ANY market.

And I'm a ron paul gold bug, so you're preaching to the choir on that one.


----------



## Douger

Hint
Unemployment in Euro zone 10% and 9.6% in EU; worst case Spain with 20.3% &mdash; MercoPress


----------



## saveliberty

Hey sunnie, run along now.  Bring back a baggie and pick up your shi**y spam.


----------



## saveliberty

Thanks Chloe its people like you that help the market be a bad place for investors to put their hard earned money.


----------



## Toro

megapicks said:


> I bet you haven't tried this one! Get yourself updated on stocks by subscribing to this newsletter!
> 
> 
> Copy and Paste this link on your browser
> 
> and sign-in to get some info!
> 
> ----------> alturl.com/jmqdr



Piss off spammer


----------



## william the wie

Gee and I was thinking of making the same post only with AAII.com


----------



## saveliberty

Freedom TV said:


> Wow, I hadn't heard about this.



Wow.  Look at the bait.  Sorry, not biting.


----------



## Avorysuds

Care4all said:


> everyone knows gasoline is going to sky rocket, already has up here from this stupid oil gusher....
> 
> this will hold us down, keep us in a recession if oil/gas prices go through the roof....  who really knows why this catastrophe should affect the prices RIGHT NOW but of course, somehow, they find a way to hit us with them....now, instead of later, when the loss of this new found oil would have really hit us....



You know that is interesting. Obama has had it pretty easy when it comes to this issue. Many talk about how bad it was under Bush yet they never mention what was going on. What would it be like if Gass was 5$ a gallon for a year under Obama?


----------



## KissMy

Today looks like a good day to short Caterpillar stock which is a major DOW component. I think it will drop from $80 down to $71


----------



## william the wie

Well if this is the best September since 1941 that may mean that next year is also going to be strange relative to most 3rd years just like with Carter and Hoover.


----------



## Toro

william the wie said:


> Well if this is the best September since 1941 that may mean that next year is also going to be strange relative to most 3rd years just like with Carter and Hoover.



Actually, its the best September since 1939.

The market went up nearly 15% in September 1939, which was the month that WWII broke out.  Investors remembered what happened during WWI.  In 1916, profits driven primarily by selling to meet war demand overseas hit an all-time high, which was not to be surpassed until the mid-1950s.  Investors thought that a repeat of WWI was in the offing, but that did not happen.


----------



## saveliberty

The only Wall Street has to fear, is Wall Street itself.  Welcome to October.


----------

