# Trump: I Have Investigators in Hawaii...'They Cannot Believe What They're Finding'



## USArmyRetired (Apr 6, 2011)

Donald Trump now has investigators in Hawaii researching Obama's origins and they are not believing what they are finding out about the President. I knew Trump would do this. He has the resources and ability that the average American doesn't have to find out vital information. I think he might find out the truth about if Obama was born in a hospital in Hawaii or one out of the country. I believe that this has the White House very nervous.


Trump: I Have Investigators in Hawaii...&#039;They Cannot Believe What They&#039;re Finding&#039; - Donald Trump - Fox Nation

The Page by Mark Halperin | Trump Conducting Hawaii Investigation Into Obama's Birthplace


MEREDITH VIEIRA:
Do you think given all the issues that this country is facing that this is something that resonates with the public? That they care about this?

DONALD TRUMP:
The Constitution of the United Statesgreat document. And you agree with it?

MEREDITH VIEIRA:
Yeah, sure.

DONALD TRUMP:
It says you have to be born in this country. Essential. Have to be born in this country, okay? If he wasnt born in this country, he has conned the whole world.

MEREDITH VIEIRA:
But youre saying its a con. Thats what youre saying.

DONALD TRUMP:
Im not saying anything. Im saying--

MEREDITH VIEIRA:
Sure you are.

DONALD TRUMP:
I am saying I want to see the birth certificate. Its very simple. I want to see the birth certificate. How come his own family doesnt know which hospital he was born in? How come-- forget about birth certificates. Lets say theres no birth certificate. How come in the hospital itself, okay? This is one of thein the hospital itself, theres no records of his birth. In other words, it doesnt say how much they paid, where is the doctor, heres your room bill. You know, all the

MEREDITH VIEIRA:
Youve been privy to all of this to know this?

DONALD TRUMP:
Well, I have people that actually have been studying it and they cannot believe what theyre talking.

MEREDITH VIEIRA:
You have people now out there searching-- I mean, in Hawaii?

DONALD TRUMP:
Absolutely. And they cannot believe what theyre finding. And Im serious


----------



## xsited1 (Apr 6, 2011)

The liberals are asking us to give Obama time. We agree . . . and think 25 to life would be appropriate.
--Jay Leno

America needs Obama-care like Nancy Pelosi needs a Halloween mask.
--Jay Leno

Q: Have you heard about McDonald's' new Obama Value Meal?
A: Order anything you like and the guy behind you has to pay for it.
--Conan O'Brien

Q: What does Barack Obama call lunch with a convicted felon?
A: A fund raiser.
--Jay Leno

Q: What's the difference between Obama's cabinet and a penitentiary?
A: One is filled with tax evaders, blackmailers, and threats to society. The other is for housing prisoners.
--David Letterman

Q: If Nancy Pelosi and Obama were on a boat in the middle of the ocean and it started to sink, who would be saved?
A: America !
--Jimmy Fallon

Q: What's the difference between Obama and his dog, Bo?
A: Bo has papers.
--Jimmy Kimmel

Q: What was the most positive result of the "Cash for Clunkers" program?
A: It took 95% of the Obama bumper stickers off the road.
--David Letterman


----------



## Zona (Apr 7, 2011)

Greatest thread ever.

Oh and burfers crack me up. 

You morons are not only depending on Trump but you are depending on him running on being a burfer.  This is fantastic.


----------



## JFK_USA (Apr 7, 2011)

Oh brother.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 7, 2011)

xsited1 said:


> The liberals are asking us to give Obama time. We agree . . . and think 25 to life would be appropriate.
> --Jay Leno


Dump Truck's "investigation" is as phony as the jokes, and only CON$ are stupid enough to swallow both.


----------



## KissMy (Apr 7, 2011)

xsited1 said:


> The liberals are asking us to give Obama time. We agree . . . and think 25 to life would be appropriate.
> --Jay Leno
> 
> America needs Obama-care like Nancy Pelosi needs a Halloween mask.
> ...


----------



## Grace (Apr 7, 2011)

Just for funzies, what if it was found out that Obama really wasnt born in Hawaii?  Then what?


----------



## California Girl (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Just for funzies, what if it was found out that Obama really wasnt born in Hawaii?  Then what?



Now, that's a good question.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 7, 2011)

California Girl said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > Just for funzies, what if it was found out that Obama really wasnt born in Hawaii?  Then what?
> ...



I'm not sure it makes a difference to his citizenship, since wherever he was born, his mother was still a US citizen at the time.  I think it might spark some changes in how states go about letting someone put their name on the ballot.  At the moment, my understanding is that they simply take the person's word for it that they're eligible, unless and until someone with standing challenges it.

I'm not entirely sure why members of the voting population themselves aren't seen as having standing.  If anyone has a right to protest a legally-unqualified candidate, wouldn't you think it would be the voters?


----------



## Grace (Apr 7, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> > IMEURU said:
> ...




But it would put this in a very sticky situation, wouldnt it?



> DONALD TRUMP:
> It says you have to be born in this country. Essential. Have to be born in this country, okay? If he wasnt born in this country, he has conned the whole world.


----------



## California Girl (Apr 7, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> > IMEURU said:
> ...



His citizenship is not the issue. The issue would be that his presidency would then be illegal. Therefore, every law, every order, every piece of paper signed by Obama would be invalid. If he obtained the office dishonestly, he would not only have to leave office, but everything he's done over the past two years would have to be scrapped. You do see that, right?

What the voters think is immaterial. If he was ineligible to run, then everything he's done is also.


----------



## Sarah G (Apr 7, 2011)

Trump always sounds like a sleazy internet marketer.

You won't BELIEVE!!

_You're right Trumpy, I won't._


----------



## Grace (Apr 7, 2011)

Shudder. What a mess that would be. Or would it?


----------



## Grace (Apr 7, 2011)

Would Biden become prez if that were the case? Or would that be invalid as well since he was also duped?
The mind boggles.


----------



## Sarah G (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Would Biden become prez if that were the case? Or would that be invalid as well since he was also duped?
> The mind boggles.




You seem easily boggled this morning..


----------



## Grace (Apr 7, 2011)

Sarah G said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > Would Biden become prez if that were the case? Or would that be invalid as well since he was also duped?
> ...



Im all cross eyed and should be in bed. But..Id just toss and turn. So...Ill bless ya with my boggleness.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > California Girl said:
> ...



Trump is mistaken.  The Constitution doesn't say you have to be born in this country.  It says you have to be a natural-born citizen, as in a citizen by birth, rather than being naturalized.  A person whose biological parent is a US citizen at the time of his birth is a natural-born citizen.


----------



## Grace (Apr 7, 2011)

I dont think so, Cecilie. Then again, Im no expert. But Arnie wanted to run for prez and he couldnt because he was not born here. The whole point of the highest office is, one has to be a natural born citizen. The person running..not his parents. At least, thats what I think the founding fathers had in mind. But again...Im no expert.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 7, 2011)

California Girl said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > California Girl said:
> ...



How would his Presidency be illegal if his citizenship isn't an issue?

I agree that, if he were ineligible to be President, then he would certainly have to leave office immediately.  I don't even know how the government would go about untangling that mess, since there's no precedent for it.  I doubt they would be willing to simply void everything he did the entire time, but I can see where if they didn't, it would be a feeding frenzy of lawsuits and court challenges.

I think what the voters think is VERY material.  Right now, apparently, they aren't viewed by the courts as having standing to challenge a candidate's eligibility to run for office; only his opponents, apparently, are viewed as having standing.  That seems ridiculous to me, since any voter in the US would qualify as an "involved party" in MY book.


----------



## Sarah G (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> I dont think so, Cecilie. Then again, Im no expert. But Arnie wanted to run for prez and he couldnt because he was not born here. The whole point of the highest office is, one has to be a natural born citizen. The person running..not his parents. At least, thats what I think the founding fathers had in mind. But again...Im no expert.



Were Arnie's parents born here?  Also, there is that little, hard to explain birth announcement that continues to be conveniently ignored by birthers.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Shudder. What a mess that would be. Or would it?



Pretty definitely.  It could be legitimately argued that, if he was ineligible to run for President, everything he did while fraudulently holding the office is invalidated and void.  At the very least, it would make every decision he made and every bill he signed into law fair game to be challenged.

I'm not even sure who would have the jurisdiction to decide how that situation would be handled, since it's unprecedented.  The Supreme Court, perhaps, if only because we seem to default to letting them decide everything these days, whether it's properly their jurisdiction or not.


----------



## Grace (Apr 7, 2011)

What a mess it would be. Shudder.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Would Biden become prez if that were the case? Or would that be invalid as well since he was also duped?
> The mind boggles.



Doesn't matter if he was duped.  Being a dimwit isn't exactly a bar to holding elected office, or Biden wouldn't be VP in the first place.

One assumes that, since Biden WAS eligible to run for office, that would mean HIS election, at least, was valid, and he would then take over as President and choose a new VP.


----------



## Grace (Apr 7, 2011)

Sarah G said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > I dont think so, Cecilie. Then again, Im no expert. But Arnie wanted to run for prez and he couldnt because he was not born here. The whole point of the highest office is, one has to be a natural born citizen. The person running..not his parents. At least, thats what I think the founding fathers had in mind. But again...Im no expert.
> ...




No. His parents were born in...Austria? Somewhere over there. I remember long ago he said he wanted to run....but couldnt due to not being born here. His own words. Cant provide a link though cuz it was a very long time ago and I dont remember when he said it or what channel.


----------



## Grace (Apr 7, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > Would Biden become prez if that were the case? Or would that be invalid as well since he was also duped?
> ...



Unles....double shudder...both are deemed invalid and...gulp...McCain/Palin will take over.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> I dont think so, Cecilie. Then again, Im no expert. But Arnie wanted to run for prez and he couldnt because he was not born here. The whole point of the highest office is, one has to be a natural born citizen. The person running..not his parents. At least, thats what I think the founding fathers had in mind. But again...Im no expert.



Schwarzenegger can't be President, not because he was born in another country, but because he was born to parents who were both citizens of another country.  Remember that John McCain was ALSO not born in the United States.  But he's a natural-born citizen, because both of his parents were citizens.

Natural-born citizenship is conveyed two ways:  either your parents are US citizens, which means you are as well, or you were born in the US itself, regardless of your parents' citizenship, which is why we have the whole "anchor baby" issue.

My brother-in-law was born in Japan, because my FIL was in the Air Force.  My BIL is still a natural-born US citizen, though, because both of his parents were.


----------



## Sarah G (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > IMEURU said:
> ...



I don't need a link, I just didn't know the answer.


----------



## Grace (Apr 7, 2011)

Im pretty sure there would be much wringing of hands and lots of topics if this were to be true. Lets hope Trump gets trumped just to avoid the mess.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > IMEURU said:
> ...



Well, he's correct, so far as it goes.  He WASN'T born here.  However, if - for example - his father had been the US ambassador to wherever, and he'd been born in that country because his parents were there due to their job, then he would still have US citizenship.

I can't imagine our Founding Fathers would ever have intended for the children of citizens to be deprived of citizenship simply because their parents happened to be traveling when their mothers went into labor.  And to my knowledge, the law has not been interpreted that way, either.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > IMEURU said:
> ...



What in Heaven's name are you talking about?  If both the President and the Vice-President are unable to fulfill the duties of the office, the Speaker of the House takes over.  At the moment, that would be John Boehner.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Im pretty sure there would be much wringing of hands and lots of topics if this were to be true. Lets hope Trump gets trumped just to avoid the mess.



I'd like to have the whole topic settled and gone once and for all.  It's ridiculous that the White House has allowed it to go on this long, rather than definitively putting it to rest.


----------



## idb (Apr 7, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > Im pretty sure there would be much wringing of hands and lots of topics if this were to be true. Lets hope Trump gets trumped just to avoid the mess.
> ...



What would do it though?
I thought that the certificate had been produced and hospital's leading surgeon (or some such person) had verified it's authenticity.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 7, 2011)

idb said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > IMEURU said:
> ...



Why in Heaven's name would you think THAT?


----------



## The Rabbi (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Would Biden become prez if that were the case? Or would that be invalid as well since he was also duped?
> The mind boggles.



Actually John McCain would be president since the original decision of the electoral college was invalid. He was the runner up.
But even if it were discovered that Obama were not born here I don't think anyone would do anything about it.


----------



## Sarah G (Apr 7, 2011)

He's ranting about Obama on Morning Joe.  Everyone is begging him to stop for his own good.  

I wonder when they're going to bring up his bitch fights with Rosie O'Donnell and Martha Stewart.  Smart guy but there's a fine line between genius and insanity.


----------



## idb (Apr 7, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



Well, there's any amount of reporting on it
FactCheck.org: Born in the U.S.A.
seems pretty thorough.



> HONOLULU (AP) State officials say there's no doubt Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.
> 
> Health Department Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said Friday she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.


State declares Obama birth certificate genuine | KXNet.com North Dakota News

And much, much more.
There are even pictures of it.


----------



## Sarah G (Apr 7, 2011)

idb said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Pat Buchanan also brought up on Morning Joe this morning that if they had travelled here after his birth, there would be passport and travel records.  If Repubs are really concerned, why not look into that as well.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Just for funzies, what if it was found out that Obama really wasnt born in Hawaii?  Then what?



The law is NOT clear. The Constitution requires the President be a NATURAL Born citizen. That requires Congress to define. My personal opinion is that ANYONE born ANYWHERE of an American is a NATURAL Born citizen.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 7, 2011)

The Rabbi said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > Would Biden become prez if that were the case? Or would that be invalid as well since he was also duped?
> ...



This isn't the Miss America pageant, where they take the crown from the winner and give it to the first runner-up.  To my knowledge, there is no provision in the law for removing someone from office and giving the office to the guy he beat in the election.  There IS, however, a provision in the law for replacing a President who has been removed from office.  Granted, the law expects that to be by way of impeachment, since the circumstance has never come up that someone won the Presidential election, took office, and was subsequently found to have been ineligible to hold it.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 7, 2011)

RetiredGySgt said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > Just for funzies, what if it was found out that Obama really wasnt born in Hawaii?  Then what?
> ...



So far as I know, that is how the law has been applied.


----------



## Douger (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Just for funzies, what if it was found out that Obama really wasnt born in Hawaii?  Then what?


murkin idolatry would hire Britney and Lindsay  and distract you fools so there wouldn't be any violence.


----------



## Mr. Shaman (Apr 7, 2011)

USArmyRetired said:


> Donald Trump now has investigators in Hawaii researching Obama's origins and they are not believing what they are finding out about the President. I knew Trump would do this. He has the resources and ability that the average American doesn't have to find out vital information. I think *he might find out* the truth about if Obama was born in a hospital in Hawaii or one out of the country. I believe that this has the White House very nervous.


Lemme guess.....*you*, *Michele Bachmann* & *Becko-The-Clown* are triplets.....who were separated-at-birth, right*???* 

You're gonna have to move-along, now. The _sidewalk_ need to be cleared for *The Obamaconomy*. 

Even *Becko-The-Clown* is folding-up his cardboard-_condo_ & clearing-outta-town. 
(You can proceed to the delousing-station, nearest you.)​


> *April 6, 2011*​
> "*But as the recession began to ease, Beck&#8217;s apocalyptic forecasts and ominous conspiracies became less persuasive, and his audience began to drift away. Beck responded with a doubling-down that ultimately brought about his demise on Fox.*
> 
> *He pushed further into dark conspiracies*, urging his viewers to hoard food in their homes and to buy freeze-dried meals for sustenance when civilization breaks down. He spun a conspiracy theory in which the American left was in cahoots with an emerging caliphate in the Middle East. And, most ominously, he began to traffic regularly in anti-Semitic themes.
> ...



*Teabaggers;** Ask Your Doctor, Today, About 
Thorazine!*












*"I'm feeling much-better, now."*​


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 7, 2011)

idb said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



You should really try to keep up.  Both those stories were discredited some time ago.


----------



## idb (Apr 7, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


Fair enough..I can't find it though...I'll keep looking...unless you can help.


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 7, 2011)

California Girl said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > California Girl said:
> ...




Under legal precedent there is something called the "Officer Doctrine" where even if after election it is found out that the candidate did not qualify for office, the actions taken under the color of law are still valid.

If everything Obama has done were to be invalidated, a couple of big things could be:

All legislation would be invalidated, including past budgets.  The fiscal crisis that would cause would be catastrophic.
All military orders for the troops in our current wars would invalid and the troops then acting under color or law.  Instead of a military action they could be held individually accountable for murder.


Just don't see that happening.  More than likely it would end up at the Supreme Court and they would rule that, yes Obama was personally ineligible, however he complied with the laws at the time.  The states put him on the ballot in compliance with the laws.  As such he can be impeached for being ineligible, but the Officer Doctrine would apply and legislation passed under his administration would be valid.

Some (not saying you) use the "everything is invalid" position as a means of negating Obamacare without thinking about what it really means from the big picture.  It is really a boogieman argument.


----------



## CoolBreeze (Apr 7, 2011)

The reason there is no birth certificate is because he is the Anti-Christ born of a woman and a dog.


----------



## Mr. Shaman (Apr 7, 2011)

The Rabbi said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > Would Biden become prez if that were the case? Or would that be invalid as well since he was also duped?
> ...







Tessio: "Tom, can you get me off the hook? For old times sake?" 

Tom: "Can't do it, Sally." ​


----------



## Sallow (Apr 7, 2011)

Zona said:


> Greatest thread ever.
> 
> Oh and burfers crack me up.
> 
> You morons are not only depending on Trump but you are depending on him running on being a burfer.  This is fantastic.



Trump's a liar and a fraud.

Otherwise known as a Conservative.


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Would Biden become prez if that were the case? Or would that be invalid as well since he was also duped?
> The mind boggles.



Legally, the Electoral College are the ones that elect the President and Vice-President and they do it with separate votes.  If one is found to be ineligible, that would not invalidate the separate vote.  The 25th Amendment kicks in and it is pretty clear.


Although I don't know which is/would be worse, Obama as President or Biden as President.  The only good thing would be that Biden as President would have such a "taint" that I think it would be impossible for him to win a re-election bid.



>>>>


----------



## Sallow (Apr 7, 2011)

RetiredGySgt said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > Just for funzies, what if it was found out that Obama really wasnt born in Hawaii?  Then what?
> ...



McCain was not born anywhere in the US. And he was responsible for the worst naval accident in history..as well as losing several planes that were never shot at.


----------



## Mr. Shaman (Apr 7, 2011)

Sallow said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> > Greatest thread ever.
> ...


Ross Perot was *often referred-to* (during his Presidential-campaign) as *"...a grenade with a bad-haircut."
*

I think ol' Ross (officially) lost that title.






Are people *really* looking forward to discussing this dude's hair....*for 4 YEARS?*


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 7, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...




There is actually an interesting technical point on that.  Under the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 (as reflected in the United States Code) [I have a link somewhere if you need it but I'm getting ready for work and would have to find it this evening] it is possible for Stanley Dunham to have given birth to Obama and him not to be a U.S. Citizen.  If he was born outside the country, then the 14th Amendment does not apply, it then devolves to the law enacted by Congress under it's Article I Section 8 powers.  The law at the time required a female married to a foreign national who gave birth in another country to have been a citizen for a certain amount of time, 5 of those years had to have been after the age of IIRC 14.  Obama was born before Dunham met the 5-year requirement.

However there is an exception to the law if the woman is unwed.  The common convention is the Dunham and Obama Sr. were married.  However Obama Sr. was already married in Kenya before coming to the US.  If he was already married, then he would no have been eligible to marry DUnham and she would have been unwed meaning Obama could be born anywhere and be a citizen at birth.


>>>>


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Just for funzies, what if it was found out that Obama really wasnt born in Hawaii?  Then what?



The fireworks would be fantastic!


----------



## Sallow (Apr 7, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> > The liberals are asking us to give Obama time. We agree . . . and think 25 to life would be appropriate.
> ...



This is a tried and true Trump tactic. When I was a mover, I would move a great many people out of residential buildings Trump's corporation would acquire. And actually, some of them were little old ladies. What he would do is try to turn building Co-op and offer renters the ability to buy in. If they refused he began investigations on them. They would do things like say the last managment had no record for rent paid on a particular month several years back. If you produced the record of payment..he would just find another month there was no record of..and continue from there. Worked almost every time.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 7, 2011)

idb said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



What both FactCheck.org and Snopes (neither of which is the non-partisan gem they'd like you to believe, incidentally) triumphantly posted scans of wasn't an official, proves-he-was-born-there birth certificate, like the one I have, for example.  It was a Certificate of Live Birth, which apparently at that time in Hawaii could have been produced simply by his grandparents making the request.

As for the Hawaii Vital Records declaration, turns out when push came to shove, they don't actually appear to have the official birth certificate they claimed to.  Unsurprisingly, the Clerk of Vital Records, or whatever the hell they call him there, isn't a non-partisan gem, either.  No less than the governor of Hawaii himself is on record as saying, "Whoops, we can't locate the sucker."  (Not in those exact words, obviously.)


----------



## Mr. Shaman (Apr 7, 2011)

Sallow said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > IMEURU said:
> ...


Are you *sure* you're not thinkin'-about....



> ....*Daddy Bush**??????*



​


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 7, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



I'm going to say that's probably logical, because the primary goal of our system is to promote the peaceful, orderly change of power and continuation of government and the nation. Invalidating every single decision and action for the last however-many years would not serve that purpose.

I have a hard time picturing anyone responsible allowing one man's fraud to crash the entire nation and government.


----------



## kaz (Apr 7, 2011)

USArmyRetired said:


> Donald Trump now has investigators in Hawaii researching Obama's origins and they are not believing what they are finding out about the President...



Are they finding he's from the same home planet that you are?


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 7, 2011)

CoolBreeze said:


> The reason there is no birth certificate is because he is the Anti-Christ born of a woman and a dog.



If you were going for an "Omen" reference, that should be Satan and a female jackal.


----------



## Sallow (Apr 7, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



So essentially Trump..and those that are in the birther mindset are saying that the entire United States Government and Hawaiian Media are lying about the birth of the son of an American Citizen. Whatever..he was still eligible to run under the same law that allowed McCain to run.

It's a ridiculous issue..brought by the same people that hold that Ronald Reagan, who before becoming elected to the Presidency, made a deal with the Iranian government to hold the hostages until after the election, is a Saint. Then used money from that deal to buy arms for terrorists that participated in the raping of nuns.

Got it


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 7, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > IMEURU said:
> ...



I was under the impression that Obama's mother was born a citizen.  Granted, I don't know much about his family's history, and I tend to care even less.  Still, I could swear I read somewhere that his mother was born in the midwest somewhere.


----------



## Mad Scientist (Apr 7, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


His mother is from Kansas. The thing is, relatives say he was born in Kenya. Plus when his mother married the Indonesian guy (Soetoro), there's a possibility that Barack travelled to America on an Indonesian passport at age 19 proving that he's not a citizen.

But I agree with all the Libs here, no one should investigate any of this.


----------



## Wry Catcher (Apr 7, 2011)

USArmyRetired said:


> Donald Trump now has investigators in Hawaii researching Obama's origins and they are not believing what they are finding out about the President. I knew Trump would do this. He has the resources and ability that the average American doesn't have to find out vital information. I think he might find out the truth about if Obama was born in a hospital in Hawaii or one out of the country. I believe that this has the White House very nervous.
> 
> 
> Trump: I Have Investigators in Hawaii...'They Cannot Believe What They're Finding' - Donald Trump - Fox Nation
> ...



It seems you support Palin and/or Trump for POTUS?  Are you insane?


----------



## Wry Catcher (Apr 7, 2011)

Mad Scientist said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > WorldWatcher said:
> ...



"There's a possibility" Trump is simply using birther rhetoric to covet the votes of racists in the Republican Party.  If true he's likely to win since it seems the party of Lincoln _ain't that party no longer_ (phrased in idiot idiom).


----------



## chesswarsnow (Apr 7, 2011)

Sorry bout that,



1. Last winter, I did predicted that more investigations would take place this spring, and this whole issue would find more traction.
2. Guess what, here it is.
3. And I predicted that this new investigation would end up in Obama's downfall.
4. You folks should learn to listen to me more.
5. A lot of you people think I'm just making shit up.
6. Look around people, I hit it *all* the time.
7. Now where is that thread I made last winter?


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 7, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...




She was, it was either Kansas or Arkansas (can't remember which).  But her birth place is not really relevant to the issue.  Citizenship is governed under two standards.  The 14th Amendment for those born on US soil and the United States Code (under Congresses Article I Section 8 powers).  IIRC the INA of 1952 (reflected in the United States Code) required that for births outside of US territory, that the mother had been a citizen for 10 years, 5 of which had to be after the age of 14.  Obama was born before Dunham met the qualifications under the USC.  However, due to the way the law was written, those time frames only applied if she was legally married to a foreign national.  If she was unwed, then her age became a non-factor and she could have given birth to a US citizen anywhere on the planet.  However, if she was in fact legally married to Obama Sr, then she had to meet the age requirement, which she did, not so if Obama were to have been born outside the country he would not have qualified for automatic citizenship at birth.


>>>>


----------



## Claudette (Apr 7, 2011)

Mad Scientist said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > WorldWatcher said:
> ...



I find it rather odd that the Prez doesn't release a copy of his BC to the press just to put all this birther shit to bed. 

Of course no LIb would investigate. I'm surprised they aren't holding that little sucker up and screaming with glee. Oh Look. Our annoited one was born in Hawaii. LOL


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 7, 2011)

Mad Scientist said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > WorldWatcher said:
> ...




There has been no confirmation that Obama traveled under an Indonesian passport.  And even if he had in that time frame it would not have required him to relinquish his US citizenship.  The Immigration and Nationalization Act of 1952 (Section 349, IIRC) specifically noted that no actions of a parent could cause a minor child (under 18 at the time) to loose their citizenship.  

So if Soreto (sp?) had adopted Obama (and there is no legal evidence of that) and Obama because an Indonesian citizen, he would not have lost his US citizenship.  He would have simply acquired dual citizenship.  Now *IF* he were adopted, and *IF* he acquired dual citizenship, and *IF* he were issued an Indonesian passport as a minor (say just before turning 18) - then that passport would not have expired in the time frame you mention, he would have dual citizenship, and have legally been in possession of two legal passports.


>>>>>


----------



## skookerasbil (Apr 7, 2011)

chesswarsnow said:


> Sorry bout that,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Sir.......was listening to the radio last week.........some kind of numerologist on.........regular caller. Said with 100% certainty that this whole thing is going to bring the Obama presidency down............no chance of re-election. The way he spoke there was zero doubt in his mind and he didnt sound at all like a k00k.......laughed about it as if it is a fait-acompli. He brought up all kinds of shit related to the numbers 11 and 29.............real spooky stuff once he got on a roll, so much so that the host of the show brought him back for 3 segments. Says the ruling class has already decided this Obama guy has to go down.

Ive never been a birther guy but if this comes to pass, sort of makes you wonder if all of this banter on these forums is total drivel.........


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 7, 2011)

Sarah G said:


> *Trump always sounds like a sleazy internet marketer.*
> 
> *You won't BELIEVE!!*
> 
> _You're right Trumpy, I won't._


"Let's talk about your car, it's screaming 'wash me,         please.'* Now, if you're a Mr. Common Sense you won't believe me when I tell you* that I've         got an envelope that will clean your car while you're driving it home or to work. Well,         George, believe me this time, because this one isn't like the Austrian self-sharpening         razors. No, friends, no overheating like the tropical fishes. No zizzing and dripping like         with the dike . . . (_sound: TV click_) "
Firesign Theater


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 7, 2011)

skookerasbil said:


> chesswarsnow said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry bout that,
> ...



Are you from Alabama?


----------



## Mad Scientist (Apr 7, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


Indonesia didn't have dual citizenship laws until 2006:
http://www.indonesiamatters.com/830/dual-nationality/

The more you look into this, the more questions pop up. That's why this needs to be straightened out. 

You recall before the election when Obama, McCain and Clintons' passport files were illegally accessed at the State Department? This has always bothered me. Who would be looking for passport info and why?


----------



## 007 (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Just for funzies, what if it was found out that Obama really wasnt born in Hawaii?  Then what?



Just for funzies, I'd love to see someone prove he was. There is none. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Trump knows what he's talking about. It's facts. Facts the liberals have been hoping and praying everyone would shut the hell up about, so they have been demonizing anyone who DARE ask about it or talk about it. I've been saying there's a major problem here since the very beginning when George Soros told the liberal media and the democrats to shut the hell up about it so he could get his sock puppet elected, but the issue will not go away. This issue will rear it's ugly head again and next time it's going to be big. Over half the country doubts obama was born in Hawaii, and wonder why the shit stain has spent over two million dollars hiding his past, and his first Presidential action which was to sign an executive order HIDING everything about him and anything about where he was born. Well I don't know about you, but for me, that's about as suspicious of behavior that anyone could possibly display. There's something wrong here, terribly wrong, and America needs to get to the bottom of it.

Thank God for Trump. He's got my vote simply for not being intimidated by these frothing at the mouth, shit talking, name calling liberal puss bags and obamabots that think just because they smart ass and name call anyone who DARES ask WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE. GO GET 'EM TRUMP... I got a good feeling it's going to be you and the BIRTHERS that get the last laugh, as I've said all along.

Major Chance This Guy Has Violated the Constitution: Trump&#8217;s Emotional Birther Defense Gets Giggles & Smirks From Morning Joe Panel | The Blaze


----------



## NYcarbineer (Apr 7, 2011)

If Trump were actually serious about running for president, this scheme of his would actually make sense.

Trump can appeal to the moderate, country club, corporatist, Wall St., money interest Republican.  He can make a halfway decent run at that crowd.  

Where he has no cred is with the goobers, i.e., the toothless, inbred, white trash, gun nut, plastic Jesus on the dashboard crowd.  In other words, the Huckabee/Palin constituency.

But there's a good chance Huckabee and Palin won't run.  That leaves the goober vote up for grabs.  

Going birther is the perfect angle.  Most of the goober vote believes that shit.  Along with believing Elvis is still alive and Uncle Ned really WAS abducted and probed by aliens.

It's certainly a more colorful fraud than pretending you're against abortion...


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 7, 2011)

Mad Scientist said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > WorldWatcher said:
> ...


CON$ just can't stop themselves from lying!!!


----------



## 007 (Apr 7, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



That's not a lie, shit for brains. What you say on the other hand is. Get a brain, then a clue.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 7, 2011)

Pale Rider said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Mad Scientist said:
> ...


Thank you for proving my point!!!


----------



## del (Apr 7, 2011)

Sallow said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > IMEURU said:
> ...



it's silly to lie about things that are so easy to check. it's typical partisan behavior to do so, therefore i can't say i'm surprised. i guess you should get some credit for being correct about mccain's birthplace.

when you lie, baby jesus kills a kitten. tsk, tsk

"As he was in his A-4 Skyhawk, loaded with two, 1,000-pound bombs and waiting on the carrier deck for his turn to launch, *a Zuni missile accidentally fired from another aircraft, swooshed across the carrier deck and struck either McCain's plane or one next to it.*

That triggered a fire and a series of bomb and missile explosions that killed 134 sailors. McCain himself barely escaped alive."

FactCheck.org: Did McCain crash five planes? Did he cause the 1967 Forrestal fire?


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 7, 2011)

Oh man I hope Trump finds out Obama was born in the USA.

It would be too ugly for us as a country to have to deal with obama being an illegal president while he is still in office, we dont need that kind of trouble right now.


Plus that would mean president biden....i mean talk about the puppet being mastered!


----------



## Sallow (Apr 7, 2011)

NYcarbineer said:


> If Trump were actually serious about running for president, this scheme of his would actually make sense.
> 
> Trump can appeal to the moderate, country club, corporatist, Wall St., money interest Republican.  He can make a halfway decent run at that crowd.
> 
> ...



Trump's going to be in serious trouble once the Media starts putting him on the same microscope.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 7, 2011)

Sallow said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > IMEURU said:
> ...



Dude you just made yourself look 10x as bad as the birthers.  Why 10x, because at least we dont have evidence on Obama one way or the other but we do have evidence on your comments about McCain.

Do some research about being born on military bases overseas and on the fact that said bases are considered U.S. territory.

Also do some research on the actual incident on the carrier, You will see McCain wasn't responsible.


----------



## Sallow (Apr 7, 2011)

del said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



Um..even your link has:

A. McCain sitting in the plane..and was not very clear where the missile was fired from.
B. Admits McCain wrecked several planes.

There is no lie.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 7, 2011)

I am glad to see the Trump investigation

Once Trump comes back and says that Obama was born in Hawaii, USArmyRetired will finally admit that he is wrong


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 7, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> I am glad to see the Trump investigation
> 
> Once Trump comes back and says that Obama was born in Hawaii, RetiredArmyGuy will finally admit that he is wrong



I really hope thats what he finds, the other outcome would not be good for the country even if I wish Obama wasn't president.


----------



## Sallow (Apr 7, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



I put up that post to demonstrate how you can smear anyone's integrity. 

And pretty easily at that.

This was a story the Media didn't run with. They could of..but they didn't.

And it has about as much validity as Ayers, Reverend Wright, The Birth Certificate and a crap ton of other things.

It's hyperbolic. Gets people pissed but in the real world..it means absolutely nothing.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 7, 2011)

Sallow said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



Ahhhhh   I get it now   Durrrrrr


----------



## zzzz (Apr 7, 2011)

What I want to know is if you were born at home and not at a hospital but in the US and not of US citizens are you screwed? You are born here but no birth record because you were delivered at home like most of our founding fathers!


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 7, 2011)

xsited1 said:


> The liberals are asking us to give Obama time. We agree . . . and think 25 to life would be appropriate.
> --Jay Leno
> 
> America needs Obama-care like Nancy Pelosi needs a Halloween mask.
> ...



Hard to believe that Leno, Letterman, O'Brien, Fallon or Kimmel never said any of that. But I guess this is what passes off as cutting edge humor for the right wing and they are afraid to put their own name on it


----------



## Flagwavrusa (Apr 7, 2011)

Sallow said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > xsited1 said:
> ...



I've known New Yorkers who failed to pay their rent and the landlords couldn't do anything about it because the city is all about tenants rights. It can take years to dislodge a tenant. You're stories sound about as real as Nancy Lugosi's claim that budget cuts will starve senior citizens.


----------



## FuelRod (Apr 7, 2011)

What's the purpose of his investigators?  Is Trump wanting to run on the Democrat ticket?  I don't get it.


----------



## skookerasbil (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Just for funzies, what if it was found out that Obama really wasnt born in Hawaii?  Then what?





Well..........whoever moved this thread to "Conspiracy Theories" would be forced to fess up to being a hyper-partisan!!!


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 7, 2011)

zzzz said:


> What I want to know is if you were born at home and not at a hospital but in the US and not of US citizens are you screwed? You are born here but no birth record because you were delivered at home like most of our founding fathers!



Not all our founding fathers were born here, some immigrated.

BTW They "founded" our government which means that the constitutional requirement didn't exist then since we didn't have a constitution until the founding fathers debated and created it.

I get where you were trying to go you just picked a bad example.


----------



## del (Apr 7, 2011)

Sallow said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



as i said, it's really stupid to lie about things that are so easily verified.



Sallow said:


> McCain was not born anywhere in the US. And* he was responsible for the worst naval accident in history*..as well as losing several planes that were never shot at.



"A special note is in order here. We have seen some baseless claims that McCain was somehow responsible for the Forrestal disaster. One incorrect but widely quoted theory has him triggering the Zuni missile with the exhaust of his own plane by "wet-starting"  deliberately dumping fuel into the afterburner before starting in order to shoot a large flame from the tail of the aircraft. This is a preposterous notion."

FactCheck.org: Did McCain crash five planes? Did he cause the 1967 Forrestal fire?

funny, i rarely agree with you, but i didn't realize you were an out and out liar until now.

good to know.


----------



## 007 (Apr 7, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



That you're a shit for brains? No problem.


----------



## California Girl (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Would Biden become prez if that were the case? Or would that be invalid as well since he was also duped?
> The mind boggles.



I would assume Biden would become POTUS.


----------



## 007 (Apr 7, 2011)

California Girl said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > Would Biden become prez if that were the case? Or would that be invalid as well since he was also duped?
> ...



They'd just tell him, "sit in the chair, don't touch anything, don't talk to anyone, just smile for the camera. You won't be here long."


----------



## Sallow (Apr 7, 2011)

del said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...



Whatever..


----------



## del (Apr 7, 2011)

Sallow said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



snappy comeback

at least you didn't lie, i guess.


----------



## Sallow (Apr 7, 2011)

del said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...



I lie all the time.

Right now I am lying about lying.

Lies with lies..man..


----------



## California Girl (Apr 7, 2011)

Sallow said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > IMEURU said:
> ...



McCain's father was stationed overseas. Stop bullshitting for the sake of cheap political shots. It's beneath you. John McCain is a war hero, and has done more for this country in that regard than Obama can even pretend to. I may not agree with McCain's politics, but disrespecting his service for point scoring is pathetic. Seriously. Grow the fuck up.


----------



## del (Apr 7, 2011)

Sallow said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



good to know, hard to care.


----------



## Sallow (Apr 7, 2011)

California Girl said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



Yeah..I didn't see this sort "defense" from the right concerning Kerry. And all those people that Clinton knew that died..heck..he was responsible. That and Clinton let Osama bin Laden go. And Willie Horton? Dukasis opened his cell door and let him out. Kennedy? The Commie Manchurian Candidate who was taking orders from the Pope.

I'm fucking tired of the right wing telling these sorts of lies and getting a pass.


----------



## 007 (Apr 7, 2011)

del said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...



He also beats his dog.


----------



## AquaAthena (Apr 7, 2011)

USArmyRetired said:


> Donald Trump now has investigators in Hawaii researching Obama's origins and they are not believing what they are finding out about the President. I knew Trump would do this. He has the resources and ability that the average American doesn't have to find out vital information. I think he might find out the truth about if Obama was born in a hospital in Hawaii or one out of the country. I believe that this has the White House very nervous.
> 
> 
> Trump: I Have Investigators in Hawaii...'They Cannot Believe What They're Finding' - Donald Trump - Fox Nation
> ...



And regardless of the outcome, I will be happy. We DO need to know and accept the truth.


----------



## Samson (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Shudder. What a mess that would be. Or would it?



We'd probably all be able to go on with life.


----------



## del (Apr 7, 2011)

Samson said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > Shudder. What a mess that would be. Or would it?
> ...



yeah, we made it through the pole reversal, after all.


----------



## Sallow (Apr 7, 2011)

Pale Rider said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...


_*
No physical threats...You know better.

~Oddball*_


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 7, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...





Pale Rider said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...


You manipulate the facts as poorly as the liars who claim that his relatives say he was born in Kenya.


----------



## Trajan (Apr 7, 2011)

del said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



a *ZUNI *missile???!! those !%#$@&*! A-Rabs!!!.I knew it!!!

They torpedoed his election too...


----------



## Trajan (Apr 7, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> > The liberals are asking us to give Obama time. We agree . . . and think 25 to life would be appropriate.
> ...



link?


----------



## California Girl (Apr 7, 2011)

Sallow said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



Try to focus. We are not talking about Kerry or Clinton.... don't deflect because you can't defend your bullshit. 

Fact. John McCain is a war hero. Regardless of his politics, that man served his country in time of war. He was shot down, fracturing both arms and one leg bailing out, was captured, beaten, stabbed and was not given medical treatment and so on. To this day, he suffers the after effects of that period of his life. 

You should be ashamed of yourself for mocking his service. Any decent American would be.


----------



## Sallow (Apr 7, 2011)

California Girl said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > California Girl said:
> ...



Check the thread kiddo.

And the right wing gave up any sort of "credence" in terms of mocking military service on multiple occassions..Kerry being the most disgusting case in point.

Even Bob Dole..who I had a great deal of respect for..said something like "There are questions" when asked about it.

These lies get spewed over and over again. And it takes a great deal of time and resources to defend against them. While I don't think "the answer" is responding in kind, it seems that NOTHING ELSE seems to work.


----------



## Trajan (Apr 7, 2011)

back to the topic...(?) Oy.....


I am surprised no one has broached the subject of his religion? Or his First name? Perhaps was Barry (Soetoro)?

My birth certificate ( born in NYC and close to  the year Obama was) has a space for mother and fathers religion. arcane(?) I guess, I doubt you'll find many with that now.....and since there is a strong tradition of  Islamic Patriarchy ala the child naturally following the father..( Indonesian school years, listed religion as " Islamic" in the school registry ).*shrugs* 

And the Barry issue, was 'Barak' as some in Chicago spoke of a street cred name he took on some time in high school or college, when were the first documented uses of his first name? 

Does any of this mean anything? Really? Aside from making him either a ) a liar or b) misleading, which hello, hes a politician, we pretty much know already?


----------



## Trajan (Apr 7, 2011)

Sallow said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



you're working OT on this crap sallow, let it go.


----------



## Barb (Apr 7, 2011)

LOL. Always despised him on a cellular level. Fundamentally unattractive as a man, a personality, hell. as a human. 

He's running for president as a birther? What a GIFT this swinging DICK is to the democrats. What a deficit he is to the national discussion.


----------



## Sallow (Apr 7, 2011)

Trajan said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > California Girl said:
> ...



Fuck that.

Here's another thread..yet again..about a non-issue about something which is terribly insulting.

Obama's a non-american? That's the same shit that was spewed about every Liberal candidate since Kennedy.

I'm tired of it.


----------



## Claudette (Apr 7, 2011)

Pale Rider said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > Just for funzies, what if it was found out that Obama really wasnt born in Hawaii?  Then what?
> ...




Personally I think he was born in the US.

I find it kind of hard to believe someone of his intelligence would try to pull such a hoax. 

You make some great points PR. Funzies? You betcha. 

Food for thought.


----------



## 007 (Apr 7, 2011)

Sallow said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...



"Other things *TOO*"... thanks for proving my point.

And don't threaten me you greasy little cock sucker. You're jumping in way over your ignorant mother fucking head ya punk ass little bitch.


----------



## Trajan (Apr 7, 2011)

Sallow said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



I think you may need other diversions, and, lets not get all double standardy & hypocritical etc....


----------



## 007 (Apr 7, 2011)

Claudette said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > IMEURU said:
> ...


I respect your opinion, but could you show me what it is that makes you think he was born in the US? Show me one stitch of evidence.

And it isn't a hoax. It's a gross oversight on the part of those charged with vetting, along with a little help from TONS of money and power that can buy or order silence.


----------



## Ernie S. (Apr 7, 2011)

California Girl said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > California Girl said:
> ...


Actually, no. Any executive order would be invalid and any veto he issued would be canceled, but any bill passed by Congress would stand. The Constitution does not require the signature of the President. From Artcle 1, Section 7 US Constitution:


> If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law.



So, in effect, any law passed by Congress would be treated as it had not been signed or vetoed, only changing the effective date to 10 days after it was passed by Congress.


----------



## 007 (Apr 7, 2011)

Got no idea why this issue keeps landing in the conspiracy theory forum. Facts are facts, and the facts are obama has zero proof of where he was born, and he wants to keep it that way. He's spent millions already to do just that. Well... hold on... I guess that is a conspiracy, of obama's own making...


----------



## USArmyRetired (Apr 7, 2011)

Trump just told Pat Buchanan and Ed Rendell on MSNBC in phone interview that there are documents of travel records of Obama's mom from Kenya. I bet Trump already has the goods on Obama and is releasing this slowly.


----------



## Barb (Apr 7, 2011)

USArmyRetired said:


> Trump just told Pat Buchanan and Ed Rendell on MSNBC in phone interview that there are documents of travel records of Obama's mom from Kenya. I bet Trump already has the goods on Obama and is releasing this slowly.



Oh, for fuck sake. Dream on. 
The RNC and ALL its donors couldn't come up with the "goods" you seek, but ONE lone millionaire with a bankruptcy who CLAIMS to have it all has your panties in a wet wadded ball? 
It isn't even fair, this election cycle, if this schmuck is supported. Watching the tea party derail the whole track isn't even a sporting position. Fish in a barrel is what this is.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 7, 2011)

USArmyRetired said:


> Trump just told Pat Buchanan and Ed Rendell on MSNBC in phone interview that there are documents of travel records of Obama's mom from Kenya. I bet Trump already has the goods on Obama and is releasing this slowly.



How much you want to bet that Trump does not have shit in terms of travel records?


----------



## del (Apr 7, 2011)

Sallow said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



yeah, who could forget all those baseless claims about clinton, carter, humphrey, johnson and mcgovern being non-americans? 




i suggest you put down the shovel

sorry


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 7, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> USArmyRetired said:
> 
> 
> > Trump just told Pat Buchanan and Ed Rendell on MSNBC in phone interview that there are documents of travel records of Obama's mom from Kenya. I bet Trump already has the goods on Obama and is releasing this slowly.
> ...



I have no clue about this whole situation either way so I would not bet on anything.

I would not bet that he is a legit us citizen
i would not bet that he is not a legit us citizen

I supsect he is legit but I have nothing to verify that with.   Trust but verify and obama wont let me verify.


----------



## del (Apr 7, 2011)

USArmyRetired said:


> Trump just told Pat Buchanan and Ed Rendell on MSNBC in phone interview that there are documents of travel records of Obama's mom from Kenya. I bet Trump already has the goods on Obama and is releasing this slowly.



i bet you're a fucking idiot.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 7, 2011)

USArmyRetired said:


> Trump just told Pat Buchanan and Ed Rendell on MSNBC in phone interview that there are documents of travel records of Obama's mom from Kenya. I bet Trump already has the goods on Obama and is releasing this slowly.


Dump Truck has already been caught lying and yet you still believe him.  Remember, he claimed it only took him an hour to get his birth certificate from the city of New York, and it wasn't a New York City birth certificate!!!!






*It took me one hour to get my birth certificate.* Its inconceivable  that, after four years of questioning,  the president still hasnt  produced his birth certificate.   Im just asking President Obama to  show the public his birth certificate. Whys he making an issue out of  this?"
-Dump Truck


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 7, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> USArmyRetired said:
> 
> 
> > Trump just told Pat Buchanan and Ed Rendell on MSNBC in phone interview that there are documents of travel records of Obama's mom from Kenya. I bet Trump already has the goods on Obama and is releasing this slowly.
> ...



Umm in your quote he never said "from the city of new york" he just said it took him one hour to get it.

Just saying, you need to provide the right quote or else it looks like you are grasping at straws.


----------



## Immanuel (Apr 7, 2011)

I have not read any of this thread so maybe someone (hopefully another conservative) has already said something similar to this, but I can't help but think that when I read, "They Cannot Believe What They're Finding", that what is meant is that they can't believe they are finding that Barack Obama was actually born in Hawaii.

Immie


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 7, 2011)

Mad Scientist said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > Mad Scientist said:
> ...




United States citizenship is defined and administered under United States law, it doesn't matter what Indonesian law may or may not allow.  If tomorrow North Korea created a law that says the all Americans now hold North Korean citizenship, it wouldn't change their US citizenship.


>>>>


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 7, 2011)

xsited1 said:


> The liberals are asking us to give Obama time. We agree . . . and think 25 to life would be appropriate.
> --Jay Leno
> 
> America needs Obama-care like Nancy Pelosi needs a Halloween mask.
> ...



  I'd rep you, but I have to spread it around.


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 7, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...




1.  Birth Documents presented during the court case of Hollister v. McCain show that he was born in Colon, Panama.  Colon was never part of the US Zone nor was it part of the sub-base.  (See image below.)


2.  Regarding military bases being considered U.S. Territory, that is incorrect.  Dependents of military members born overseas receive citizenship based on Jus sanguinis (bloodline) not Jus soli (birth on soil).

*U.S. Department of State Foreign Affairs Manual*
7 FAM 1113 NOT INCLUDED IN THE
MEANING OF "IN THE UNITED STATES"

c. Birth on U.S. Military Base Outside of the United States or Birth on
U.S. Embassy or Consulate Premises Abroad:

(1) Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad
and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities abroad are not part of
the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A
child born on the premises of such a facility is not born in the
United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of
birth.​








>>>>


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 7, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



Ok thanks.

So he is still a US citizen then according to what you posted based on bloodline (Jus sanguinis) not birthplace.


----------



## Marie888 (Apr 7, 2011)

xsited1 said:


> The liberals are asking us to give Obama time. We agree . . . and think 25 to life would be appropriate.
> --Jay Leno
> 
> America needs Obama-care like Nancy Pelosi needs a Halloween mask.
> ...




These are great, thank you! 
K, here's one more if ya haven't heart it:

"Knock Knock!"

"Who's There?"

"Kenya!"

"Kenya Who?"

"Kenya show us your birth certificate?"





.


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 7, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> ...




Oh absolutely, wasn't trying to imply that he wasn't. 

 I was just pointing out that there is evidence that has shown he wasn't born on US soil and to correct our misunderstanding of the status of military bases overseas.  To my knowledge, McCain never released his birth certificate during the campaign and Hollister v. McCain was dismissed on lack of standing.



>>>>


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 7, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > USArmyRetired said:
> ...


So you are saying that since the birthers are claiming the BC Obama released is not official, Dump Truck was talking about an UNofficial BC for himself to discredit Obama!!! 

It's a shame people who pretend to be that stupid are allowed to vote.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 7, 2011)

zzzz said:


> What I want to know is if you were born at home and not at a hospital but in the US and not of US citizens are you screwed? You are born here but no birth record because you were delivered at home like most of our founding fathers!



If you were born at home, chances are excellent the birth was still attended to by a midwife (which was often the case during the colonial period, as well).  These days, midwives are certified, and have been instructed in the procedures for acquiring a birth certificate.

If for some reason the birth was not attended by some sort of licensed professional, every state has its own laws and regulations for acquiring birth certificates for home births.  They do understand that not only do some people like home births, but sometimes shit happens and the mother can't make it to the hospital in time.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 7, 2011)

USArmyRetired said:


> Trump just told Pat Buchanan and Ed Rendell on MSNBC in phone interview that there are documents of travel records of Obama's mom from Kenya. I bet Trump already has the goods on Obama and is releasing this slowly.



Why would he release it slowly?  He'd get a much better effect out of a big, explosive bombshell release.


----------



## Grace (Apr 7, 2011)

Sallow said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



No. This thread was just to report what Trump was doing. Then I began to wonder what would happen IF it was discovered Obama was indeed born somewhere else....what then? Which began to make it interesting to discuss, which then turned into yet another "birther" argument. I dont give a damn right now where he was born since the horse is already out of the proverbial barn, the milk has already spilled, etc....I wanted to know what the repercussions would be to the USA, the laws he signed, who would take over in his stead, etc. Ya know..interesting NEW stuff to talk about.
At least, thats where I thought it was going. For awhile, anyway.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 7, 2011)

Donald Trump showed his birth certificate to reporters. Who cares about his birth certificate? I want to know if that thing on his head has had its vaccinations." &#8211;Craig Ferguson 

"Donald Trump might be running for president and he just released his birth certificate. It lists his eyes as 'blue' and his hair as 'ridiculous.'" &#8211;Conan O'Brien 

"Donald Trump called George W. Bush 'the worst president in the history of the United States.' Then he added, 'Until, of course, I'm elected.'" &#8211;Conan O'Brien 

"Donald Trump says he will run for president. He'll have to find a cabinet position for that thing on his head." &#8211;David Letterman

"Donald Trump came out as a birther, which is Republican for, 'I'm running for president.'" &#8211;Lewis Black 

"Stupid presidents, smart presidents, white presidents, black presidents -- doesn't work! What this country needs is a crazy Third World dictator. And Donald Trump has what it takes to be that. He's already got a plane with his name on it, solid gold buildings, a harem..." &#8211;Lewis Black, on Donald Trump 

"This is what I've been waiting for my whole life. A President who's not afraid to tell the truth about being a lying a**hole." &#8211;Lewis Black 

"Trump says that if he's elected, he won't let the presidency interfere with the Miss Universe pageant." &#8211;David Letterman 

"How would Trump travel as president? Obviously, he'd use Hair Force One." &#8211;David Letterman


----------



## USArmyRetired (Apr 7, 2011)

Proof Hawaii still issues copies of long form birth certificates:


Here is proof from woman from Hawaii who ran for the House of Representatives in Oklahoma that Hawaii still issues copies of long form birth certificates. Her son is from Hawaii and she will be releasing his too when he recieves it in a week from the Hawaii Dept of Health after he sent them 10 dollars this week according to her facebook page under Miki Booth. Go there to have a look on her wall. Notice if you zoom in you will see the stamp from the state registrar Alvin Onaka and that it is dated March 15, 2011 at the bottom. This is proof that the MSM, Hawaii Dept of Health have been covering for Obama and lying when they say you only recieve short form COLBs when you ask for a copy of one. Trump has Obama backed into a corner now that this has been revealed.


----------



## candycorn (Apr 7, 2011)

California Girl said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > California Girl said:
> ...



Good luck with that train of thought.  The laws enacted will stay intact.  

and

President Obama will be President until he is voted out of office and a successor is sworn in or when his 2nd term expires.  And not a day before.  Take it to the bank.

The sad thing is that Trump would be an interesting foil for Obama in the General Election.  I should say "would have been".  This issue is a loser for the GOP and will be for Trump as well.  

I'm in the odd situation of agreeing with the twoofers on one small topic; people are waking up...waking up that is to voting for the man and not the party necessarily.  We need policies that make sense and we need serious men and women to run this Country.  I disagree with John Boehner's  (sp?) policies about 100% of the time.  I can't think of one where I agree with him in fact.  But nobody can deny that Boehner is dead serious about what he feels is right. 

I loved McCain as a candidate in 2000 but in 2008 he was all over the map almost as much as Romney was.  The straight talk express was derailed.  This is why Gingrich and Palin are dead men walking; nobody takes them seriously.  Trump is joining them whether he knows that or not is the difference between some rich guy running for office and the rich guy who understands politics is a profession.  Trump doesn't understand that which is sad because it would have been an interesting choice between he and Obama.  Unfortunately for the GOP, it looks like Romney who when he isn't flipping, he's flopping.


----------



## candycorn (Apr 7, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> Donald Trump showed his birth certificate to reporters. Who cares about his birth certificate? I want to know if that thing on his head has had its vaccinations." Craig Ferguson
> 
> "Donald Trump might be running for president and he just released his birth certificate. It lists his eyes as 'blue' and his hair as 'ridiculous.'" Conan O'Brien
> 
> ...



Wow...Letterman needs some new writers.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 7, 2011)

USArmyRetired said:


> Proof Hawaii still issues copies of long form birth certificates:
> 
> 
> Here is proof from woman from Hawaii who ran for the House of Representatives in Oklahoma that Hawaii still issues copies of long form birth certificates. Her son is from Hawaii and she will be releasing his too when he recieves it in a week from the Hawaii Dept of Health after he sent them 10 dollars this week according to her facebook page under Miki Booth. Go there to have a look on her wall. Notice if you zoom in you will see the stamp from the state registrar Alvin Onaka and that it is dated March 15, 2011 at the bottom. This is proof that the MSM, Hawaii Dept of Health have been covering for Obama and lying when they say you only recieve short form COLBs when you ask for a copy of one. Trump has Obama backed into a corner now that this has been revealed.









What information does this womans COLB contain that Obama's doesn't that is required to prove he is eligible for president?

What additional information do you require?

For your information, the person in your COLB does not meet eligibility requirements for President.  Obama's does


----------



## candycorn (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > Trajan said:
> ...



The laws would stay in tact due to the understanding that the Presdent signed the laws.  

*The 25th Amendment of the US Constitution:*​


> Section 1. In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.
> 
> 
> Section 2. Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.
> ...



Part 1 covers what would happen.  Since the electors voted for both POTUS and VPOTUS, the VPOTUS would become POTUS.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 7, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



I take it you couldn't find a quote to verify your claim about trump so you decided to attack me personally.

You can't use the S.I.N. tactic on someone who understands it.

Shift the subjectIgnore the facts
Namecall


I take it your admitting that Donald Trump never said New York city the way you claim.  Right?  Or do you have proof that what you said was true and that I am wrong.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 7, 2011)

USArmyRetired said:


> Proof Hawaii still issues copies of long form birth certificates:
> 
> 
> Here is proof from woman from Hawaii who ran for the House of Representatives in Oklahoma that Hawaii still issues copies of long form birth certificates. Her son is from Hawaii and she will be releasing his too when he recieves it in a week from the Hawaii Dept of Health after he sent them 10 dollars this week according to her facebook page under Miki Booth. Go there to have a look on her wall. Notice if you zoom in you will see the stamp from the state registrar Alvin Onaka and that it is dated March 15, 2011 at the bottom. This is proof that the MSM, Hawaii Dept of Health have been covering for Obama and lying when they say you only recieve short form COLBs when you ask for a copy of one. Trump has Obama backed into a corner now that this has been revealed.


Gee, no mention of religion on that BC, so another Dump Truck/birther rationalization goes up in flames!!


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 7, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> > IMEURU said:
> ...





> I'm not sure it makes a difference to his citizenship, since wherever he was born, his mother was still a US citizen at the time.



Actually it does matter his mother would have had to report his birth to the U.S. embassy in which country you are living in to file for the proper paper work. Not Hawaii.

Consular Report of Birth Abroad (FS-240)

The birth of a child abroad to U.S. citizen parent(s) should be reported as soon as possible so that a Consular Report of Birth Abroad can be issued as an official record of the child&#8217;s claim to U.S. citizenship. Report the birth of your child abroad at the nearest U.S. embassy or consulate. 

http://travel.state.gov/law/family_issues/birth/birth_593.html


----------



## Tank (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Just for funzies, what if it was found out that Obama really wasnt born in Hawaii?  Then what?


Libs would love him even more.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 7, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> ...


Logic dictates Dump Truck was talking about his official BC. 

Obama already released his BC 2 years ago, if Dump Truck was talking about Obama not releasing his BC then he is obviously referring to an OFFICIAL BC. Therefore Dump Truck was clearly claiming it took him only 1 hour to get his OFFICIAL BC. An official BC comes from the government, not the hospital. Any other interpretation of his quote is completely mindless!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 7, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



Which wasn't a N.Y. Birth certificate.

Logic dictates that Trump knew where he was born therefore was not talking about New York City  

Your dumber than a birther


----------



## USArmyRetired (Apr 7, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> USArmyRetired said:
> 
> 
> > Proof Hawaii still issues copies of long form birth certificates:
> ...



We want to see what Hospital he was born in. We want to see what doctor delivered him. The long form will provide those answers and for your information, I was not discussing if this person was eligible for president. You assume to much as your continued predilection for irrelevancy demonstrates. Also a lot of Obama supporters say Obama can only recieve the short form and Hawaii has been saying that to when refered to Obama. This proves they have been lying.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 7, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



obama has not released anything someone else released a piece of paper that said it was obama BC. I don't recall ever hearing obama admitt that was his BC in Hawaii.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 7, 2011)

USArmyRetired said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > USArmyRetired said:
> ...



Where in the Constitution does it say you had to be born in a Hospital or delivered by a doctor?  Our Founding Fathers were not

If it doesn't have anything to do with his eligibility for President, what business is it of yours who the doctor was?

Your form reflects information recorded on a child born in 1995 show me where that was the same information recorded in 1961


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 7, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> ...


And logic dictates that Obama knew where he was born also, so then Obama's posted BC would be just as valid as Dump Truck's. 

For Dump Truck to say Obama needed to show his BC 2 years after Obama posted it, then he must be talking about something other than what Obama posted. Clearly Dump Truck was talking about it taking him only an hour to get the type of BC he wanted Obama to now post, which would be an official government issued BC!!!!

And you're dumber than ME!


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 7, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



So where is Obama's Birth Certificate again?

Do you have a link to an article about him actually providing it where the article actually shows a real Hawaii B.C.?   

I still haven't seen it.

Like I said back in the beginning of this thread  I can't say Obama was born in the USA, I cant say obama wasn't born in the USA.   I believe he was born here but I have no way to verify it so I cant claim it to be true.


----------



## Tank (Apr 7, 2011)

Man, if Obama wasn't born in America and whites try to remove him from office.

Blacks will riot like a mofo


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 7, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> Where in the Constitution does it say you had to be born in a Hospital or delivered by a doctor?  Our Founding Fathers were not
> 
> If it doesn't have anything to do with his eligibility for President, what business is it of yours who the doctor was?
> 
> Your form reflects information recorded on a child born in 1995 show me where that was the same information recorded in 1961



Our founding fathers WROTE The constitution silly.     (you do know why i say this right?)

That B.C. picture you posted was found out to not be legit BTW, I thought so anyway let me go double check that.

I just wish somoene would post it in the NY TIMES so this shit would go away.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 7, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> ...


Pretending to be blind does not mean it doesn't exist, except to CON$.

From the official Obama "Fight the GOP Smears" site:
Fight the Smears: The Truth About Barack


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 7, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Where in the Constitution does it say you had to be born in a Hospital or delivered by a doctor?  Our Founding Fathers were not
> ...


Bullshit, BTW!

snopes.com: Barack Obama Birth Certificate


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 7, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Where in the Constitution does it say you had to be born in a Hospital or delivered by a doctor?  Our Founding Fathers were not
> ...



Wait...wait
Before you look, let me guess

It was found to be not legit by.....Birthers

Am I good or what?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 7, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



Fight the smears? Look at the bottom of the page in the blue box you will see paid for by organizing for America. Organizing for America was obama's political group. Same as fact check it's run by the board that obama was a member of.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 7, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



I'm too skeptical because the typical hawaii 60's B.C. looks like this 







Then the "real" ones that you and rightwinger post look like these, and these are 2 different pieces of paper with the same info on them










Again I just dont have anything that I can solidly hold up and say  "See i told you guys to STFU he is a citizen"  


Ok go ahead and be a dick now.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 7, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> ...


Don't you think you CON$ milk this dumb act just a little too much???
The poster asked for something officially from Obama!!! Sheeeesh!


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 7, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



obama didn't provide anything obama has never said that was his BC. Someone posted it for him.


----------



## Tank (Apr 7, 2011)

A guy named Barack Hussein Obama might not be a American?


----------



## Montrovant (Apr 7, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



I remember the problem being that the governor claimed he was going to prove Obama was born here, then found out he was just as bound by Hawaii law as anyone else and so can't access those records without Obama's consent, not that the BC couldn't be located.  It's all a lot of vague statements and assumptions of meaning, if my memory of the story isn't badly flawed.

Whatever the case, if the state of Hawaii officially recognizes Obama as having been born in the state, I imagine that is enough to meet the constitutional requirements.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 7, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> ...


My official Birth Certificate, that I got for $15 from the local government when I had to get a photo ID drivers license, looks exactly like Obama's posted BC.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 7, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



My grandson which was born in Hawaii does not look like obama's.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 7, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


First you admit it was Obama's website, then you deny Obama had anything to do with it. 

And these people are allowed to vote!!!!


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 7, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> ...



Documents look the same to me....

Your COLB may have been issued in the 60's, Obama's was issued in the 90's of course they don't look the same

My own COLB was issued in the early 90s and contains less information than Obama's. It does, however, contain more information than Donald Trumps


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 7, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



I said it was obama's political group not that it was obama's group. In other words they campaigned for him.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 7, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> ...


Obviously there can be more than one format for an official BC. The burden of proof is on you to prove that only one format is valid!


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 7, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



Shouldn't the state of Hawaii have one format for all those born in that state?


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 7, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Depends on when you were born and when you requested the copy of the COLB.

My own COLB has very little information other than my name, city and county of birth, birth date and official seal

What else do you need?


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 7, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


No.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 7, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



Mine looks different than all 3 of those.  Its brown.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 7, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



Why would one state have more than one format for BC?


----------



## Nosmo King (Apr 7, 2011)

Zona said:


> Greatest thread ever.
> 
> Oh and burfers crack me up.
> 
> You morons are not only depending on Trump but you are depending on him running on being a burfer.  This is fantastic.


All conspiracy theorists are the same.  they want incontrovertible empirical evidence for the obvious and expect us to blindly accept the preposterous.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 7, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> ...


Actually, my original BC also looked different, but my home burned down in a fire in 1973 and I lost all of my papers except what I carried in my wallet. I didn't need a copy of my BC until I had to renew my drivers license 2 years ago with a photo ID license that required multiple forms of ID. The copy I got then from the city of my birth looks just like Obama's posted BC and has been accepted as an official BC everywhere.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 7, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> I have not read any of this thread so maybe someone (hopefully another conservative) has already said something similar to this, but I can't help but think that when I read, "They Cannot Believe What They're Finding", that what is meant is that they can't believe they are finding that Barack Obama was actually born in Hawaii.
> 
> Immie



I don't imagine Trump would be talking about it if THAT was what they were finding.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 7, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


Why wouldn't they? Forms change constantly over the years. The BC I was issued 2 years ago does not look like the BC I had as a child that burned up in a house fire in 1973.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 7, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



You will find a date stamp on obamas I think it's 08 my grandson was born in 08 they should be the same.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 7, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



Well i'm still going to assume Obama is an american citizen like I have all along I'm just not going to stick my neck out for him in doing so.

I hope trump ends this whole B.C. thing with his "investigation" and I personally hope his investigation finds nothing wrong with the President.

I may not support obama but I sure as hell prefer him to Biden.


----------



## Grace (Apr 7, 2011)

Dont know if anyone posted this yet...but here is the vid of Trump and Viera:

Trump brings media blitz to NBC, &#8216;steamrolls&#8217; Meredith Vieira on birther issue - Yahoo! News


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 7, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


It looks like 2007 to me and whether they are the same or not, the burden still lies on you to prove that Obama's posted BC is not valid.


----------



## Grace (Apr 7, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> ...



But would it be Biden? On a completely different path to this subject, here is a new thread about the IF's.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/conspiracy-theories/162499-hypothetical-question.html


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 7, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



Actually it's 01, and to be proprely vetted the proof is on obama


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > Trajan said:
> ...



Well, I think it's a given that it would produce new laws about how states register people for elections.


----------



## Mr Liberty (Apr 7, 2011)

zzzz said:


> What I want to know is if you were born at home and not at a hospital but in the US and not of US citizens are you screwed? You are born here but no birth record because you were delivered at home like most of our founding fathers!



My daughter was born at home and she a citizen.  Somehow the Government knew.  They sent me warning to get her SSN or else.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 7, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



Imeru you can't bring this up without the birthers and the obama cultists going bat-shit crazy fighting each other


----------



## Grace (Apr 7, 2011)

The new thread is going pretty well. So far.

Lets guard it and get ready to  and  and


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> The new thread is going pretty well. So far.
> 
> Lets guard it and get ready to  and  and



I give it till page 5


----------



## R.D. (Apr 7, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Well, I think it's a given that it would produce new laws about how states register people for elections.



Or just obey the laws that already exist on the books.  It's been reported that he wasn't Constitutionally Certified to run in all states either.


----------



## Zona (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Just for funzies, what if it was found out that Obama really wasnt born in Hawaii?  Then what?





California Girl said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > Just for funzies, what if it was found out that Obama really wasnt born in Hawaii?  Then what?
> ...



Burfers are idiots.  Proof points here.


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 7, 2011)

Tank said:


> Man, if Obama wasn't born in America and whites try to remove him from office.
> 
> Blacks will riot like a mofo



Which is why the Supreme court has refused to hear any of the dozens of cases on Obama's eligibility to be president of the USA.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 7, 2011)

R.D. said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I think it's a given that it would produce new laws about how states register people for elections.
> ...



Got proof or just birther nonsense

One state can't invalidate the birth documentation issued by another state


----------



## USArmyRetired (Apr 7, 2011)

The alleged Obama nativity story says he was born in Kapi-olani Hospital in Hawaii. Of course at first his sister said Queens in Honolulu in a interview. Anyway, these certificate of live birth documents are from the Nordyke Twins who were born at Kapi-olani the day after Obama. Chris Matthews on Hardball held up these copies and said Obama should release the original that looked like those he held. If Obama was born at Kapi-olani, he should have one of these. Here they are:







Chris Matthews holding the Twins certificates up:


----------



## Zona (Apr 7, 2011)

Even old, set in their ways old school idiot retired army burfers are funny.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 7, 2011)

For those who think a child born out side of America is an America because one or both parents are America citizens it's not that simple. The childs parent(s) would have to report his/ her birth to the U.S. embassy in which country they were living in to file for the proper paper work. 
Consular Report of Birth Abroad (FS-240)

The birth of a child abroad to U.S. citizen parent(s) should be reported as soon as possible so that a Consular Report of Birth Abroad can be issued as an official record of the childs claim to U.S. citizenship. Report the birth of your child abroad at the nearest U.S. embassy or consulate. 

Birth of U.S. Citizens Abroad


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Just for funzies, what if it was found out that Obama really wasnt born in Hawaii?  Then what?



Donald Trump has an "accident?"

That would be my guess....


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 7, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


> I'm not sure it makes a difference to his citizenship, since wherever he was born, his mother was still a US citizen at the time.



But it makes him ineligible to be president and his campaign a criminal conspiracy.

That's kind of a problem, no matter what MSDNC claims.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 7, 2011)

USArmyRetired said:


> The alleged Obama nativity story says he was born in Kapi-olani Hospital in Hawaii. Of course at first his sister said Queens in Honolulu in a interview. Anyway, these certificate of live birth documents are from the Nordyke Twins who were born at Kapi-olani the day after Obama. Chris Matthews on Hardball held up these copies and said Obama should release the original that looked like those he held. If Obama was born at Kapi-olani, he should have one of these. Here they are:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What information is available on those records that is required to prove eligibility as president?

If none....what business is it of yours?

Curiosity is not an answer


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 7, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> USArmyRetired said:
> 
> 
> > The alleged Obama nativity story says he was born in Kapi-olani Hospital in Hawaii. Of course at first his sister said Queens in Honolulu in a interview. Anyway, these certificate of live birth documents are from the Nordyke Twins who were born at Kapi-olani the day after Obama. Chris Matthews on Hardball held up these copies and said Obama should release the original that looked like those he held. If Obama was born at Kapi-olani, he should have one of these. Here they are:
> ...



He's an employee of the people which makes it my business and anyone else who pays his salary. True story


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



Yes.  It would be Biden.  We have a line of succession, enshrined by law, for a reason.  Obama's eligibility or lack thereof has nothing to do with BIDEN'S eligibility to hold office.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 7, 2011)

R.D. said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I think it's a given that it would produce new laws about how states register people for elections.
> ...



I understand from the Secretary of State's office in my own state that they essentially take the person's word for their eligibility, unless and until someone with standing challenges it.  I was appalled.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 7, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > USArmyRetired said:
> ...



Show me a law that says it is

Curiosity is not a justification


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 7, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


Actually it's 07, and Obama already proved it.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 7, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


If you do not know the person you are hiring you do require decimation
E-Verify
I-9 Compliance Updates - No More Delays; DHS Mandates E-Verify For Federal Contractors Starting September 8


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 7, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Not even close

President Obama has provided all documentation required of his office. He is under no obligation to jump through hoops put up by nut jobs


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 7, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



The date stamp on the birth certificate is date 11/01


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 7, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


No he has not, show me where obama has shown anything. What has been shown was submitted by someone else. But not obama.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 7, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



He has provided a state certified certificate of birth and all required financial records.  That is all that is required by law. 

Burden is on you to show what has not been provided


----------



## Immanuel (Apr 7, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > I have not read any of this thread so maybe someone (hopefully another conservative) has already said something similar to this, but I can't help but think that when I read, "They Cannot Believe What They're Finding", that what is meant is that they can't believe they are finding that Barack Obama was actually born in Hawaii.
> ...



Nor do I, but the press would be.

I tried to open the link to the story, but my system froze twice.  I suspect my virus scan didn't like something about it, but then I got no notification.

So, like I said, he wouldn't but the press would be and the title of a thread is never something to take as "gospel".

Immie


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 7, 2011)

> Quote: Originally Posted by *bigrebnc1775*
> 
> 
> _
> You will find a date stamp on obamas I think it's 08 my grandson was born in 08 they should be the same._





bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


The date stamp is *Jun  - 6 2007*. You can see it in reverse where it soaked through the paper after being stamped on the reverse side. It is to the right of the 11/01 in the middle of the form about an inche above the part that says the copy is prima facie evidence of proof of birth. The 11/01 is the date that form was adopted, not the date the form was stamped as being given to Obama.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 7, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> > Quote: Originally Posted by *bigrebnc1775*
> >
> >
> > _
> ...



So brings us back to the original statement if this document was revise on 11/01 and was certified on Jun 6 2007 you would think they would have the same document on 2008


----------



## Toro (Apr 7, 2011)

USArmyRetired said:


> DONALD TRUMP:
> Well, I have people that actually have been studying it and they cannot believe what theyre talking.
> 
> MEREDITH VIEIRA:
> ...



Well, I can't wait to find out then!


----------



## idb (Apr 7, 2011)

Toro said:


> USArmyRetired said:
> 
> 
> > DONALD TRUMP:
> ...



Well it's obvious that Trump has already made his mind up...I doubt we'll see anything come out from his people that's sympathetic to Obama.


----------



## jckryan (Apr 7, 2011)

At this point . . . I really don't really give a rats arse either way. 

When I served, I served for this country, her freedoms, citizens and the POTUS (WHOEVER that may be).  If I had served under George W. administration, I would have done so. Would have I had any qualms about it? No doubt about it. But, I answered to the country and people the president elected.

Maybe Obama's BC might have been an issue before he was elected, but really don't care right now.

Despite the priority on issues such as the economy, budget and healthcare . . . I'd say he is batting .290 (that's good in baseball terms). In addition to the three previously mentioned issues, he has had to deal with crisises in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Bahrain (U.S 5th Fleet), Japan, increased violence on the border, and a few other issues within the first three months of this year. 

Yes the dude has made a few mistakes, but Jesus *#@%?!ing Christ! Throw the guy a bone. He is getting from all sides, like no other. Sure, Bush had 9/11. But what Obama is experiencing now is BRUTAL. His hair should be white. 

I'm not a lib, but the amount of b!%ching coming from SOME of the cons over the small stuff is just nuts. THEY are starting to sound like libs. If the BC was such an issue, Trump or whoever should have taken it up before Obama got elected.

Just got back to the states and there is alot he has to deal with out there. Cut him some freakin slack. 

I might be a little tired, but I know China is sitting back and enjoying every minute of this.


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 7, 2011)

This is a really, _really_ long read but some interesting stuff.  



> Editors Note: In December 08 a retired CIA officer commissioned an investigator to look into the Barack Obama birth certificate and eligibility issue.  On July 21, 2009 westernjournalism.com obtained a copy of the investigators report. Here is an unedited version of the report.



Clearing the Smoke on Obama?s Eligibility: An Intelligence Investigators June 10 Report | Western Journalism.com


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 7, 2011)

jckryan said:


> At this point . . . I really don't really give a rats arse either way.
> 
> When I served, I served for this country, her freedoms, citizens and the POTUS (WHOEVER that may be).  If I had served under George W. administration, I would have done so. Would have I had any qualms about it? No doubt about it. But, I answered to the country and people the president elected.
> 
> ...





> When I served, I served for this country, her freedoms, citizens and the POTUS (WHOEVER that may be).  If I had served under George W. administration, I would have done so. Would have I had any qualms about it? No doubt about it. But, I answered to the country and people the president elected.



When you served you also took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution. So yes it does matter even now.


----------



## Immanuel (Apr 7, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> This is a really, _really_ long read but some interesting stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Okay, I really don't want to read all of that tonight and probably won't want to ever, but I remember in my Business English Classes that we were told to just cut to the chase and give the boss, "the bottom line".  I'm not pretending to be the boss, but I am guessing you read that and since it doesn't give its conclusions in either the first paragraph or the last... can you *JUST GIVE ME THE FRIGGING BOTTOM LINE PLEASE* and thank you.

Immie


----------



## Obamerican (Apr 7, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> > The liberals are asking us to give Obama time. We agree . . . and think 25 to life would be appropriate.
> ...


Nobody swallows more than Obama. At least he will have a future in gay porn when his ass is out in 2012.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 7, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> This is a really, _really_ long read but some interesting stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting.


In 1982, the vital records law was amended to create a fifth kind of original birth certificate.  Under Act 182 H.B. NO. 3016-82, Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that the proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.  In this way state policies and procedures accommodate even children born out of State (this is the actual language of Act 182) with an original birth certificate on record.  So it is even possible that the birth certificate referred to by Dr Fukino is of the kind specified in Act 182.  This possibility cannot be dismissed because such a certificate certainly satisfies Dr Fukinos statement that I as Director of Health for the State of Hawaii, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obamas original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.  If this is the case, Dr Fukino would have perpetrated so unusually disgusting a deception that I find it practically incredible (and I greatly doubt that anyone could be that shameless).   On the other hand, if the original birth certificate is of types 2, 3, or 4, Dr Fukinos statement would be only somewhat less deceptive and verbally tricky. I only bring up this possibility to show how cleverly hedged and lawyered and basically worthless Dr Fukinos statement is.


----------



## idb (Apr 7, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > This is a really, _really_ long read but some interesting stuff.
> ...



So that's no conclusion at all! 
_(disclaimer; I only read the posted excerpt)_


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 7, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > This is a really, _really_ long read but some interesting stuff.
> ...



Sorry I could only get through about 1/4 of it before my eyes went bleary.  I'm too tired now but when they all get out of here tomorrow I'll give it another shot.  If you read it in bits and pieces it's easier to understand and digest . . . I think.


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 7, 2011)

idb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



No it isn't. From the bits that I read there doesn't seem to be a conclusion but rather information that was discovered or is being given.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 7, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



The last paragraph supports what I have been saying for a long time.

We know from a document posted on June 10, 2009 on the Department of Hawaiian Homelands website that, up until very recently, either the original paper Certificates of Live Birth or (as is now implied) scanned images of those paper certificates were maintained by the Dept of Health, and copies of them were provided to confirm claims of Hawaiian ancestry.  But if in June 2009 the Department of Hawaiian Homelands has decided that it will no longer require the original Certificate of Live Birth as proof for special privileges and the Department of Health spokesman says firmly that they will no longer provide copies of these original certificates, is it possible that, in the midst of the controversy over where Barack Obama was born, the Hawaiian state govt has destroyed the original paper certificate of live birth?  This seems almost incredible to me, but the authorities have been so deceptive and evasive on this issue, that it cannot be dismissed as impossible.


----------



## idb (Apr 7, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



So, it's 'incredible' which means unlikely.
Is that how you read it?


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 7, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > > Quote: Originally Posted by *bigrebnc1775*
> ...


Obviously not.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 7, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



Meaning you haven't a clue what you are talking about.^^^^^^^^


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 7, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


Meaning you have neither proven that there is only one official format for all BCs nor the format of the Obama BC is invalid.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 7, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



Why is that in every image of differant BC you can see the notory seal but not in obamas?


----------



## USArmyRetired (Apr 8, 2011)

Something wonderful is going to happen tommorrow. (just like in 2001)


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



A seal like this one??


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



Thing about that birth certificate back in the 60's African was not a race.


----------



## Sallow (Apr 8, 2011)

Pale Rider said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...



Cock sucker? Geeze louise..projection projection.

And "way over my head"? Hardly. I don't start shit with you. YOU start shit with me.

You're a little bitch not worth my time.

The fact you keep on and on about this is telling. Get another fucking story..or settle it like a man. But the fact is..you don't.

You are a little drama queen.

Go fuck yourself.


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...




Thing about that birth certificate back in the 60's is that they were typed up based on what the individuals put down on paper forms and were not based on computer generated drop-down lists which limit you to a predefined list.  What would have gone in the box is what the individual wrote (be it Dunham or Obama Sr.) and it's perfectly logical for someone from Africa, not familiar with American vernacular or idiom to list their race as African.

I remember being at the hospital when my kids were born, part of the paperwork was a worksheet that I filled out as a parent, that worksheet was then transcribed into the Birth Certificate issued by the government.

>>>>


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Clerk asks father....Race?    Father replies...African
Clerk types....African


----------



## chesswarsnow (Apr 8, 2011)

Sorry bout that,


1. Thats right *AFRICAN* should not be used to describe a race.
2. If so, we know some white people come from Africa, are they *AFRICANS* too, being Negros?
3. I think not.
4. Are Black Negroes born in America *AMERICANS*, on their Birth Certificates?
5. What makes it a shame for Negroes to be called Negroes?
6. There is no shame in the word Negro, unless you are a self loathing Negro.
7. When will blacks learn to love their selves?


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




In the 60's African was not a race. If your were alive then you would know it.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



In 60s America it was not. To someone from Africa it would be, his father probably wanted to distinguish himself from Negro Americans


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



African was not a race back in the 60's It did not matter what the father or mother wanted to identify the child as. On offical documents Blacks were identified as black or negros. Not Africans.

What do you call a white person from Africa


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 8, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Would Biden become prez if that were the case? Or would that be invalid as well since he was also duped?
> The mind boggles.



Biden hasn't done anything illegal, the line of succession would definitely go to him.

I think that's why Obama picked Biden, sort of a "if anything happens to me, you're stuck with HIM," situation. As bad as Obama is, Biden could only be worse.


----------



## Immanuel (Apr 8, 2011)

Uncensored2008 said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> > Would Biden become prez if that were the case? Or would that be invalid as well since he was also duped?
> ...



Hehe,

That is why GWB chose Cheney and probably why McCain chose Palin.

Immie


----------



## del (Apr 8, 2011)

my birth certificate, issued in 1954 in boston, mass, makes no mention of race.

does that mean i get to pick one?

if so, i'll take 180m high hurdles.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 8, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


> How would his Presidency be illegal if his citizenship isn't an issue?



If Obama is foreign born, he is not eligible to be president per the U.S. Constitution. 

{    * Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162 (1874): In this case decided after the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment, the Court stated (pp. 16768):

          The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient for everything we have now to consider that all children born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction are themselves citizens.}


----------



## del (Apr 8, 2011)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > *How would his Presidency be illegal if his citizenship isn't an issue?*
> ...



reading for comprehension is your friend.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 8, 2011)

Sallow said:


> McCain was not born anywhere in the US. And he was responsible for the worst naval accident in history..as well as losing several planes that were never shot at.



McCain was born on US Soil, as all military bases are considered to be.

You KOS Kiddies need a new line.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


You CON$ just make this crap up out of thin air!!!

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/birth11-03final-ACC.pdf

25. FATHERS RACE (Check one or more races to indicate _what the father considers himself to be_)
&#9633; White
&#9633; Black or *African* American
&#9633; American Indian or Alaska Native (Name of the enrolled or principal tribe)________________
&#9633; Asian Indian
&#9633; Chinese
&#9633; Filipino
&#9633; Japanese
&#9633; Korean
&#9633; Vietnamese
&#9633; Other Asian (Specify)______________________________
&#9633; Native Hawaiian
&#9633; Guamanian or Chamorro
&#9633; Samoan
&#9633; Other Pacific Islander (Specify)______________________
&#9633; Other (Specify)___________________________________


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 8, 2011)

del said:


> reading for comprehension is your friend.




Indeed.

{all children born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction}

*within the jurisdiction*

The lower the IQ, the further to the left..


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 8, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> Clerk asks father....Race?    Father replies...African
> Clerk types....African



Drone reads KOS.... KOS spews shit... Drone spews shit.


----------



## Immanuel (Apr 8, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



I'm not in agreement with the arguments listed above about "African" not being a "race" that could be put on the BC, but as a rebuttal to your contention here, these are the choices available today and "African American" is a relatively new distinction that has come into effect because of all the politically correct whining we have had to endure for the last 15-20 years.  I don't think it was prevalent back in 1961.

Immie


----------



## del (Apr 8, 2011)

Uncensored2008 said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > reading for comprehension is your friend.
> ...



hey, stupid, if you don't want to answer her question, why quote it?



Cecilie1200 said:


> How would his Presidency be illegal if his citizenship isn't an issue?





what a dope


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 8, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Is this form from the 1960's or now?  Assuming the 1960's . . . .

Why would Obama's father check the 'African American' box?  He wasn't an American.  He was, however, black.  Given a choice of 'black' or 'African American' he would have checked the 'black' box.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

del said:


> my birth certificate, issued in 1954 in boston, mass, makes no mention of race.
> 
> does that mean i get to pick one?
> 
> if so, i'll take 180m high hurdles.



But hawaii's does. So whats your point?


----------



## del (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > my birth certificate, issued in 1954 in boston, mass, makes no mention of race.
> ...



hey, you wanna obsess over stupid shit? knock yourself out.

don't be real shocked when i mock your dumb ass about it.

otay?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

zoom-boing said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



rev. 11/2003


----------



## del (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...




yeah, back in 1961, they were still running vista.



idiot


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 8, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


The black and African American are the SAME box.

The point was that African is listed as a race, along with Japanese, Korean, etc.
Obviously he could have chosen the "other" box and filled in African.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

del said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...





> hey, you wanna obsess over stupid shit? knock yourself out.


No I want the mother fucking truth. I am fed up with the lies from Hawaii and the government.

Once again African was not a race identifer back in the 60's


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



So this isn't the form that Obama's father would have filled out, correct?  

I haven't gone through this whole thread so if this is a repeat question, sorry.  The form filled out in 1961 . . . did it have 'choices' or did it just ask 'race'?  

If a person was from Africa but was white, wouldn't they put down white?  (I didn't think Caucasian was used back then, was it?  I don't know . . )  It would stand to reason that if they were from Africa and were black they would put down black.  If I were in a foreign country and needed to fill in my race on a form I wouldn't put American (that's my nationality), I'd put white.  Actually, I'd check 'other' and put down alabaster just to screw with them.  heh


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 8, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



You're right. I didn't catch that.  Ha!
So this is exactly how the form was worded in 1961?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

del said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > zoom-boing said:
> ...



That document was revised in 2003 that document was not used in the 60's.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Child is born and they give you a form to fill out for the birth certificate. For the entry for race, the father writes down "African"

The clerk making $1.65 an hour takes the form and types in African. People assume that means Negro and don't make a fuss about it.

Real earth shattering stuff


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 8, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



How do you know that?  

If he had been white, but from Africa, would he still have put down African?


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 8, 2011)

So is this the big news from the Trump investigation?

That Obama's father listed his race as African?

Trump has President written all over him


----------



## del (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



tissue?


----------



## del (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



no shit, sherlock. that would be the point.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 8, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


He probably would have checked the "White" box, which makes no other distinction other than white.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> So is this the big news from the Trump investigation?
> 
> That Obama's father listed his race as African?
> 
> Trump has President written all over him



No, but I have always said that


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

del said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...



So why try to use it as if it was?


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 8, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



So the form you posted on the previous page . . . it was worded just like that in 1961?

If he was white he would have checked the 'white' box and they would put down Caucasian.  But if he was black he would have checked the 'black or African American' box and they put down African.  Why wouldn't they put down black?  

???


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



Your document is dated rev. 2003 it would not have those identifers worded that way on a 1961" Hawaiian BC


----------



## del (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



well, why don't you post a link to a 1961 version of *race identifiers* or shut your whiny fucking trap? you keep saying african wouldn't have been used.

well prove it or shut the fuck up, aright?


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 8, 2011)

Ok, here's a copy of a long form birth certificate from 1961.  It just asks 'race' with no other identifiers.  







Obama's father put down 'African' rather than 'black'.  Was 'African' the term used back then?  I don't recall it as such . . .I thought negro or colored was the term used.  Would a person from Africa refer to their race as 'African' though?  Again if I was asked my race I wouldn't put American.  This whole thing is confusing.

This image (Obama's COLB) was also on the same page where I got the image above.






The first pic the dob was 8/5/61 but the certification number is 151 61 10637.

Obama's COLB lists dob as 8/4/61 but the certification number is 151 61 10641.

Shouldn't Obama's certification number be lower (sooner) than the one of the babies born a day later?


----------



## del (Apr 8, 2011)

beats me, but then, i don't care.

if you assume that the records were input in order of birth, then yes, it should be lower, but i have no reason to assume that. they may have only input once a week or once a month.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 8, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...


Again, He could have checked the "other" box and put down African. Please explain why the "other" box can't be used even though it is there for the choosing?
I will never understand CON$ervative "logic."


----------



## mudwhistle (Apr 8, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> > The liberals are asking us to give Obama time. We agree . . . and think 25 to life would be appropriate.
> ...



I think Obama is hiding something about his past and his birth cert reflects it. 

He's a U S citizen, most likely, but hiding the truth makes him appear to be a victim and gives idiots like you an excuse to support him without looking foolish. Lord knows you look stupid supporting his fucked up policies.


----------



## signelect (Apr 8, 2011)

The real point is that he can't lead, he can't follow, he can't do anything but read the teleprompter.

We are in a financial mess that he and congress created and now they just want it to be George W's fault.  This is getting old.

Trump is not going to run for the presidency but in the mean time he can spend his money pointing out things that need to be aired.  You can call him names but he is very smart in a financial way.


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 8, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



There was no 'other' box in 1961.  I posted a copy of a long-form bc a few posts up.  It just asks 'race' with no other identifiers.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 8, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> Ok, here's a copy of a long form birth certificate from 1961.  It just asks 'race' with no other identifiers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Most likely, yes. Back then Africans strongly identified themselves as the African Race.

BBC News | Africa at 40 | Nkrumah - an African visionary with feet of clay

 [FONT=arial, helvetica] But while Dr Nkrumah worked to  improve living standards at home his ambitions extended beyond national  boundaries to the creation of a federal union of African states.  [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica]*United for the good of all*[/FONT]   [FONT=arial, helvetica]Explaining his vision in his 1961  book, I Speak of Freedom, he wrote: "Divided we are weak; united,  Africa could become one of the greatest forces for good in the world.  [/FONT]
 [FONT=arial, helvetica]" I believe strongly and  sincerely that with the deep-rooted wisdom and dignity, the innate  respect for human lives, the intense humanity that is our heritage,* the  African race,* united under one federal government, will emerge not as  just another world bloc to flaunt its wealth and strength, but as a  Great Power whose greatness is indestructible because it is built not on  fear, envy and suspicion, nor won at the expense of others, but founded  on hope, trust, friendship and directed to the good of all mankind."  [/FONT]


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

del said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...


Well tell me when was the first of the term African American used? It wasn't used in the 60's


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 8, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...


The questionnaire I already posted had the "other" box. The BC was then made from the filled out questionnaire.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 8, 2011)

signelect said:


> The real point is that he can't lead, he can't follow, he can't do anything but read the teleprompter.
> 
> We are in a financial mess that he and congress created and now they just want it to be *George W's fault.*  This is getting old.
> 
> Trump is not going to run for the presidency but in the mean time he can spend his money pointing out things that need to be aired.  You can call him names but he is very smart in a financial way.


Yeah, nothing is ever W's fault, it's always Clinton's or Carter's or Obama's or even FDR's fault but never W's. This is getting old.


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 8, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



So he was given that form (the one you posted) and had to fill it out and from the info he put down, the long-form birth certificate was typed up.  You'd think I'd know this having had three kids but I don't remember anything about forms when I was in the hospital . . too much pain and too much else on my mind and I'm drawing a blank on the whole forms thing . . . 

The form you posted was revised in 2003.  How was it worded in 1961?


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 8, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > xsited1 said:
> ...


That's completely asinine! What could his BC possibly contain that he needs to hide???


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 8, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...


You tell me!


----------



## signelect (Apr 8, 2011)

Why would anybody want to be called African American.  Last time I check there was no place in Africa where I would brag about being from.  Africa is a toilet bowl full of corruption, whoops I forgot about Washington DC.  So sorry.


----------



## del (Apr 8, 2011)

signelect said:


> The real point is that he can't lead, he can't follow, he can't do anything but read the teleprompter.
> 
> We are in a financial mess that he and congress created and now they just want it to be George W's fault.  This is getting old.
> 
> Trump is not going to run for the presidency but in the mean time he can spend his money pointing out things that need to be aired.  You can call him names but he is very smart in a financial way.



yeah, nothing says smart like going bankrupt running a casino.


----------



## mudwhistle (Apr 8, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> signelect said:
> 
> 
> > The real point is that he can't lead, he can't follow, he can't do anything but read the teleprompter.
> ...



It's really George Soros's fault.


----------



## Immanuel (Apr 8, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, here's a copy of a long form birth certificate from 1961.  It just asks 'race' with no other identifiers.
> ...



Very good post and thank you.

I would like to know when he made that statement though.  The link is dated 11/04/1997 and says that he was explaining his point of view of the book he wrote in 1961.  If he made the statement in 1961 or there about that would be a pretty good indication that they did in fact view themselves as "the African Race".  On the other hand, though not disproving that they did, if he made the comment in 1997, then it is possible that current thinking influenced his wording.

However, thank you, that was still an excellent piece of information.

Immie


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 8, 2011)

del said:


> hey, stupid, if you don't want to answer her question, why quote it?



Hey stupid, if you don't comprehend what's going on in the thread, don't jump in.

Stupidity, the root cause of leftism...

You see dumbfuck, what I presented is called "case law" which forms "precedent" and establishes what is meant by "natural born citizen." Based on this, IF Obama was not born on US Territory, he is NOT eligible to be President.

The above is called "fact," something that you leftists lack the capacity to grasp.


----------



## mudwhistle (Apr 8, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



Then produce the original. 
What's so hard about that?

Nope, he's hiding something.


----------



## mudwhistle (Apr 8, 2011)

Obama doesn't look anything like his father. 

Not even remotely.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 8, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> Child is born and they give you a form to fill out for the birth certificate. For the entry for race, the father writes down "African"



Moron is born and he goes to DailyKOS. They fill his brain-stem with spurious bullshit. Moron comes here and spews bullshit...


----------



## Immanuel (Apr 8, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



I know when we had our children (1985, 1987 & 1992), the nurses asked me, the father, all those "important" questions while mom was recovering and they filled out the form based on my replies.  So, if the same was true for you, then you would not be expected to remember the forms.

Now, why did they ask me and not mom?  Probably just to boost my ego as if I had any real part in the birthing of my own children.  I was lucky though to survive the birth of my oldest as my wife put me in a headlock (when I was "helping her to remember to breathe") and I swear I thought I was a dead man right then and there.  

Immie


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 8, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> That's completely asinine! What could his BC possibly contain that he needs to hide???



My guess is that his religion was listed as "Muslim."

But it's just a guess.


----------



## signelect (Apr 8, 2011)

del said:


> signelect said:
> 
> 
> > The real point is that he can't lead, he can't follow, he can't do anything but read the teleprompter.
> ...



Yes he did, one failure, dozens of successes.  You don't get to his financial position by being stupid.

Care to list any of Obama's successes.


----------



## Immanuel (Apr 8, 2011)

Uncensored2008 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > That's completely asinine! What could his BC possibly contain that he needs to hide???
> ...



To most of us, if that were the case, it would mean absolutely nothing as that is the faith of the parent(s).  But, I am certain to some they would use that as proof that today, Barack Obama is a Muslim.

Immie


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 8, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...









Here's one from 1964.  I don't know if each state has/had its own version or if there is just one standard form for all.  

According to this form is just asks for 'color or race'.  So the 'African' question comes back to terms used back then.  Again, if I were asked my 'color or race', I wouldn't say 'American', I'd say white even if I were from Africa.  But how I'd answer doesn't mean squat. lol  He may very well have thought of his race as African rather than black or that may very well have been a term a person from Africa would have used.  Then again, a black man/white woman having a child was much more uncommon back then so maybe he put down African to divert attention from that.  Who knows.

There's info on here that isn't on the COLB (signature of doc present, hospital, attendant at birth, and some other dates).  Why not just release the long form if that's the only other additional information?  It just seems to me that _that_ would shut everyone up once and for all.  Well, it would shut everyone up except for the 10% loons who will never be satisfied.


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 8, 2011)

Uncensored2008 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > That's completely asinine! What could his BC possibly contain that he needs to hide???
> ...



I didn't see religion listed as a question on the 1964 form I posted so I would imagine it wasn't on the 1961 either.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 8, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...


The quote is from the preface to his 1961 book, page XIV

African History: Western African history - Google Books


----------



## Toro (Apr 8, 2011)

signelect said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > signelect said:
> ...



Plus he's fucked all sorts of hot women, never letting his marital status get in the way in his pursuit of banging hot chicks.  You've got to admire a man who goes for what he wants!


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 8, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...


And religion is not in the questionnaire I posted either.


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 8, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



Scratch 'Muslim' off the list.  Check!


----------



## Immanuel (Apr 8, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



I could have done that myself, but I was busy doing other things.  But thanks for taking the time to look that up.

Again, good post and I have to agree that it certainly looks as if back in the early 60's the African people did in fact consider themselves of the "African" race.

Immie


----------



## chesswarsnow (Apr 8, 2011)

Sorry bout that,


1. My guess he doesn't actually have a real birth certificate.
2. And I would guess he doesn't even have one *at all*, seeing he was born in a remote village in Kenya.
3. My guess is The President, is a fraud.
4. And I'm guessing that one day he will have to pay for it.
5. And I guess Donald Trump will *trump* him with exposing The President for his fraud.
6. And I think, it would then be important that the whole election be over turned, and his whole history as The President, be wiped clean from the records, and McCain and Palin take their proper place as President and Vice President.


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 8, 2011)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > McCain was not born anywhere in the US. And he was responsible for the worst naval accident in history..as well as losing several planes that were never shot at.
> ...



>

1.  Birth Documents presented during the court case of Hollister v. McCain show that he was born in Colon, Panama.  Colon was never part of the US Zone nor was it part of the sub-base.  (See image below.)


2.  Regarding military bases being considered U.S. Territory, that is incorrect.  Dependents of military members born overseas receive citizenship based on Jus sanguinis (bloodline) not Jus soli (birth on soil).

*U.S. Department of State Foreign Affairs Manual*
7 FAM 1113 NOT INCLUDED IN THE
MEANING OF "IN THE UNITED STATES"

c. Birth on U.S. Military Base Outside of the United States or Birth on
U.S. Embassy or Consulate Premises Abroad:

(1) Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad
and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities abroad are not part of
the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A
child born on the premises of such a facility is not born in the
United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of
birth.​








>>>>


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



The document you used was revised in . 11/2003 That box wasn't there in 1961. The term African American even with blacks wasn't used until the 80's


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

1997
Revisions to the Standards for the Classification of Federal Data on Race and Ethnicity

5. Comments on Recommendations for Terminology

Comments on terminology largely supported the Interagency Committee's recommendations to retain the term "American Indian," to change "Hawaiian" to "Native Hawaiian," and to change "Black" to "Black or African American." There were a few requests to include "Latino" in the category name for the Hispanic population.

Revisions to the Standards for the Classification of Federal Data on Race and Ethnicity | The White House

From a Blog:
If you do not want to read all of this, the term "African American" emerged in the 1980s. I remember that too. Prior to that, the term used to classify the race of African Americans was"Black". Prior to "Black", which emerged in the mid 60's, the term used was "Colored" which began after the return of Vietnam Vets. Prior to colored, the term used was "Negro" which began in the north where the slaves were free.
When Did the Term "African American" arise in the US? - whereabouts's Blog - Blogster

From Answer . com


A poem by the name of "I Can" created the term African American in 1987. The poem was written by Johnny Duncan. It appeared in The 1987 Black History Calendar, and all subsequent editions through 1993. 



Read more: Answers.com - Where did the term African-American originate
From the New York Times
'African-American' Becomes a Term for Debate


"I've had to check several different boxes in my lifetime," said Donna Brazile, 44, Al Gore's campaign manager in the 2000 presidential race. "In my birth certificate I'm identified as a Negro. Then I was black. Now I readily check African-American. I have a group of friends and we call ourselves the colored girls sometimes, to remind ourselves that we ain't too far from that, either." 

The term African-American has crept steadily into the nation's vocabulary since 1988, when the Rev. Jesse Jackson held a news conference to urge Americans to use it to refer to blacks. 

"It puts us in our proper historical context," Mr. Jackson said then, adding in a recent interview that he still favored the term. "Every ethnic group in this country has a reference to some land base, some historical cultural base. African-Americans have hit that level of cultural maturity." 

Since 1989, the number of blacks using the term has steadily increased, polls show. In a survey that year conducted by ABC and The Washington Post, 66 percent said they preferred the term black, 22 preferred African-American, 10 percent liked both terms and 2 percent had no opinion. 

In 2000, the Census Bureau for the first time allowed respondents to check a box that carried the heading African-American next to the term black. In 2003, a poll by the same news organizations found that 48 percent of blacks preferred the term African-American, 35 percent favored black and 17 percent liked both terms. 

'African-American' Becomes a Term for Debate


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



Did they have white African black in the 60's?


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



  Nice typo!

The only thing I found on the 1964 form I posted previously was that it said 'color or race' and you filled it in.  No boxes to check, the person filled it in with whatever they chose.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 8, 2011)

Crack Trump investigators looking for the "goods" on Obama


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 8, 2011)

^^^


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



Yep, However we need to look at the race issue of the 60's  not 2000. There are White Africans, and more than one country in African.


----------



## idb (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



What a minor point for argument.
It's entirely plausible that a black African person would identify themselves as African back in the early '60s when asked to put down race on a form.
Let it go!


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

idb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



It's not a minor point. No it's not plausible on government documents, from the 60's Plus take a look at the other post I made.


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 8, 2011)

>


In 1961 someone from the continent of Africa write "African" on a form, and it's an issue.


How many people have issues with a person in 1961 from the continent of Asia writing "Asian" on a form.






>>>>


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> >
> 
> 
> In 1961 someone from the continent of Africa write "African" on a form, and it's an issue.
> ...



It would not happen in the 60's on American documents. It wouldn't happen until the 80's and 90's


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 8, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> >
> 
> 
> In 1961 someone from the continent of Africa write "African" on a form, and it's an issue.
> ...



I do....Never happened.


----------



## slukasiewski (Apr 8, 2011)

Let's quit pussy-footing around and elect a real American, for once. 

Not some arab (like we have now)....


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 8, 2011)

Question:  does the long form birth certificate exist or did the Gov of Hawaii say it had been destroyed or something?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

slukasiewski said:


> Let's quit pussy-footing around and elect a real American, for once.
> 
> Not some arab (like we have now)....



Stop being an idiot.


----------



## idb (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



FFS!!!!
Obama's old man came from Kenya that had only recently won independence from Britain after a vicious nationalistic conflict.
Kenya, and much of Africa at the time, strongly identified themselves as African as they struggled to shed themselves of European colonial powers.
I wouldn't be surprised if he answered the question with a raised middle finger.
I have no doubt that he would have considered himself as African.
Let...it...go!!!


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

idb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



African as far as the Ameican government goes was not a race until after the 80's.
Can you supply any U.S. Government document dated before 1980 that has African American as a racial identifier. I'll wait.


----------



## L.K.Eder (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> slukasiewski said:
> 
> 
> > Let's quit pussy-footing around and elect a real American, for once.
> ...



you should be thankful. he makes vegetables like you look like they are responding to external stimuli.


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...




A birth certificate is not a U.S. Government document.  It is not filled out by the U.S. Government, it is completed by local hospitals based on information provided by the parent.


>>>>


----------



## Sallow (Apr 8, 2011)

So 11 pages on the conspiracy..and what's Trump offering as rationale for his administration?

Is he going to run investigations on each and every American? Or is that just how he plans to "beat" Obama (Oh and I don't think he is running).


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Is Hawaii a part of the U.S.? Does Hawaii have a government? Did I say Federal Government?


----------



## idb (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



It doesn't say African American does it?

But...trying to nail down what your point is...are you saying that the form would have only had tick boxes for race?
Could it not have had 'Other, please specify' as an option?


----------



## idb (Apr 8, 2011)

Sallow said:


> So 11 pages on the conspiracy..and what's Trump offering as rationale for his administration?
> 
> Is he going to run investigations on each and every American? Or is that just how he plans to "beat" Obama (Oh and I don't think he is running).



Trump is obviously a details guy.


----------



## L.K.Eder (Apr 8, 2011)

idb said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > So 11 pages on the conspiracy..and what's Trump offering as rationale for his administration?
> ...



he has my vote.


----------



## idb (Apr 8, 2011)

L.K.Eder said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



Make sure you fill the voting form out correctly, and leave no chad untorn...


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 8, 2011)

Don't worry

Trump will blow the lid on this "African" thing in no time.  He has his boys on it and will drive Obama out of office for having a non-standard racial term on his birth certificate

Obama does not know who he is messing with


----------



## L.K.Eder (Apr 8, 2011)

idb said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



i will. this is relevant to my interests.


----------



## L.K.Eder (Apr 8, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> Don't worry
> 
> Trump will blow the lid on this "African" thing in no time.  He has his boys on it and will drive Obama out of office for having a non-standard racial term on his birth certificate
> 
> Obama does not know who he is messing with



i could tell obama who is messing with him.

then his chicago boys will totally get a clue. and frigth back.


----------



## Immanuel (Apr 8, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> Don't worry
> 
> Trump will blow the lid on this "African" thing in no time.  He has his boys on it and will drive Obama out of office for having a non-standard racial term on his birth certificate
> 
> Obama does not know who he is messing with



As a propagandist... You're fired!

Immie


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Is Hawaii a part of the U.S.?



Yes



bigrebnc1775 said:


> Does Hawaii have a government?




Yes




bigrebnc1775 said:


> Did I say Federal Government?




Yes, you referenced the CDC classifications of race, the CDC is a federal agency.



>>>>


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

idb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



If you were black your race was identifed as black or negro. You weren't given an option in the 60's


----------



## idb (Apr 8, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> Don't worry
> 
> Trump will blow the lid on this "African" thing in no time.  He has his boys on it and will drive Obama out of office for having a non-standard racial term on his birth certificate
> 
> Obama does not know who he is messing with



That's right, if Obama's Dad didn't know what the politically correct term for his race was that year in America, it reflects badly on him.
As I understand it from reading the Commentators That Know, Obama actually wrote "Christian" when he really meant "Muslim"...like father like son I suppose...
Trump is right to keep digging, who knows what else he might find...bad grammar? spelling mistake? double spaced typing used inappropriately?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Is Hawaii a part of the U.S.?
> ...





> Yes, you referenced the CDC classifications of race, the CDC is a federal agency.





Here's what I said

Can you supply ANY U.S. Government document dated before 1980 
We agree Hawaii is a state of the U.S. and it does have a government.


----------



## L.K.Eder (Apr 8, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Is Hawaii a part of the U.S.?
> ...



i appreciate the work you put into your posts, but, seriously. those guys, including these wannabe-non-birthers, who are "just sayin'" are not interested in this.

it is a coping mechanism.


----------



## idb (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Refer back to the form posted earlier...the option of race was left open, you could have put 'martian' presumably...or 'pinhead'...


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...




True Hawaii is a state.  Hawaii though would supply Hawaii State Government documents, not US Government documents.


>>>>


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 8, 2011)

As far as I can tell the form that would have been filled out in 1961 didn't have any 'tick boxes', just a simple 'color or race' question where the person fills it in.


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



No it wasn't

If you were black you were called colored or Negro

If you were from Africa, I don't know what you called yourself


----------



## L.K.Eder (Apr 8, 2011)

idb said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Don't worry
> ...



i heard that obama sr. was a soshilsit. from indonesia. where the maui-maui-rebellions were discussed in the evening, sitting on the porch with monkeys.

wtf?

can anyone trust guys like this.

trump has my vote.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > WorldWatcher said:
> ...



I'm still waiting on someone to produce a government document dated before 1980  that Identifies blacks as African American.


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 8, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> As far as I can tell the form that would have been filled out in 1961 didn't have any 'tick boxes', just a simple 'color or race' question where the person fills it in.




Yep, and the idea that a non-American (someone not familiar with government documents in the United States) from Africa might put "African" in a blank on a form seems to be mind boggling to some.


>>>>


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> I'm still waiting on someone to produce a government document dated before 1980  that Identifies blacks as African American.




Probably because no one cares.


>>>>


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Still waiting for you to show where Obamas birth certificate says African American


----------



## idb (Apr 8, 2011)

L.K.Eder said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



You have mis-spelled soshilist...sochalst...commie!
You clearly have things to hide.
Expect the investigators at your door tomorrow morning!


----------



## Sallow (Apr 8, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Don't worry
> ...


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > As far as I can tell the form that would have been filled out in 1961 didn't have any 'tick boxes', just a simple 'color or race' question where the person fills it in.
> ...



Who would fill out the document? Wouldn't the government employee be the one?
One more time in the year's between 1960 to 1980 African was not thought of as a race. People would not have thought of the idea filling out any official document using that terminology.

Lastly as I said the government employee would have filled the paperwork out, to ensure it was filled out correctly.


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> I'm still waiting on someone to produce a government document dated before 1980  that Identifies blacks as African American.



The form he filled out didn't have any identifiers, just a question of 'color or race' and he would write in his answer.


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



But couldn't it have been to someone who was from Africa?  Or do you mean he could have written down 'African' but when the information was typed up the transcriptionist would  have changed it to 'negro' or 'colored'?


----------



## KissMy (Apr 8, 2011)

I just heard some good Trump campaign slogans.

"Don't Be A Chump, Vote for Donald Trump"

"Trump dumps a Chump"

"Trump dumps on a Chump"

""Trump is a Chump"

"No B.O."

You get the idea.


----------



## L.K.Eder (Apr 8, 2011)

idb said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...




don't hate on me. i get my information by listening to radio.

they repeat these super-words, which soudn awesome.

i just don't never have readed them.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > WorldWatcher said:
> ...



Can you supply ANY U.S. Government document dated before 1980  that uses African American as a racial identifier.


----------



## idb (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



I think the answer is 'no' bigrednec.
You have won, there were no Africans in the 60s.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

idb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Correction there are no document that has a racial identifiers for African American befor the 1980's.


----------



## idb (Apr 8, 2011)

Don't be so modest, if it wasn't on the form, they can't have existed.
Enjoy your victory.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


But he wasn't American, just African. And he identified himself as African, not African American.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



He would not have Identifed himself as African for racial identifing on a Government document. Because the term African was not a race in the 60's Black or Negro.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

idb said:


> Don't be so modest, if it wasn't on the form, they can't have existed.
> Enjoy your victory.



They didn't exist as a race they existed as blacks or negros, way by in the 1960's


----------



## idb (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Don't be so modest, if it wasn't on the form, they can't have existed.
> ...



Well, that's going to turn centuries of anthropological research on its ear!


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 8, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Well, it provided a clear and reasonable answer to a question I've always wondered about:  why in the Hell Obama refuses to release his birth certificate and just end the whole issue.  I never understood what could possibly be on his birth certificate that he didn't want anyone to see.  Obviously, we still don't know the answer for sure, but the report's conclusion that it's most likely that the type of birth certificate he was issued was one that could have been easily falsified by his family does clarify things for me.


----------



## del (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



yes, you did fuckwit. what do you think u.s. government means?

do you need post it notes to remember to breathe?


----------



## L.K.Eder (Apr 8, 2011)

idb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



the continent "africa" was discovered my malcolm x. to stick it to the man.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 8, 2011)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > McCain was not born anywhere in the US. And he was responsible for the worst naval accident in history..as well as losing several planes that were never shot at.
> ...



Actually, someone pointed out earlier in the thread that military bases are NOT considered part of the US in that sense.

McCain is a US citizen because 1) both of his parents were US citizens, and 2) the offspring of US servicemembers are exempted from the whole "legal residence for X years" thing in the citizenship laws, as someone else pointed out earlier.


----------



## del (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



we'll send you an email when it comes. promise.

why don't you get some rest or work on your coloring books in the meanwhile, hmmm?


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 8, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



I don't believe the form would have said "black" in 1961, because as I recall, black people in 1961 considered that an insult, sort of like calling them "colored" today would be.


----------



## idb (Apr 8, 2011)

L.K.Eder said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Was that in 1980?


----------



## del (Apr 8, 2011)

idb said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



continents didn't exist until 1987


----------



## idb (Apr 8, 2011)

del said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > L.K.Eder said:
> ...



So the planet earth was incontinent until 1987?


----------



## L.K.Eder (Apr 8, 2011)

del said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > L.K.Eder said:
> ...




continent theory is inspired by the devil and financed by the international finanzjudentum.


----------



## del (Apr 8, 2011)

idb said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



where do you think the oceans came from?

must i explain every little thing?


----------



## L.K.Eder (Apr 8, 2011)

idb said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



records of times that ancient are murky at best.

we must pray.


----------



## idb (Apr 8, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



That's no conclusion...it's a 'what if' at best.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 8, 2011)

idb said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



Call it whatever you want.  Point is, it's a reasonable explanation for something that was confusing me.  I haven't paid much attention to the whole "Obama citizenship" thing in general, and could never figure out what could be on a birth certificate that he didn't want people to see, although obviously, SOMETHING is, since he's so adamant about not letting anyone see it.  The fact that the TYPE of birth certificate he has might make the whole situation worse was not something that previously occurred to me.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

del said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > WorldWatcher said:
> ...


Can you supply ANY U.S. Government document
How many Government bodies are in the U.S.?


----------



## del (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



i'll get back to you after i google up a stupid-to-english dictionary


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

idb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



African was not a racial identifier in the 1960's sorry try again, black's or negro's was
What do you call white africans?

The word Negro is used in the English-speaking world to refer to a person of black ancestry or appearance, whether of African descent or not, prior to the shift in the lexicon of American and worldwide classification of race and ethnicity in the late 1960s
Negro - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Foxfyre (Apr 8, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



That's what I think.  I think truth be known Obama probably does qualify as a natural born U.S. citizen, but he sure goes way out of his way to feed the curiosity or suspicions of those who doubt that or wonder about that.  I have been thinking of all the times I had to show a certified birth certificate:

When I enrolled in First Grade.

When I went to work (summer job) for the NM State Police.

When I enrolled in college  (it was necessary to receive two of my scholarships.)

For at least two jobs I have applied for when the government was still requiring employers to verify citizenship.

I used it twice to verify my citizenship on out of country trips and then again when I applied for my passport.  When hubby applied for his passport, the certificate he had lacked the requisite seal and he had to order another one before they would send in his application.

So the fact that Obama has presumably allowed only a couple of Obama-friendly folks to see a copy of his certificate of birth and has allowed nobody to see the long form that contains all the pertinent information most of us have on our birth certificates suggests there is something there he really doesn't want anybody to see.

Or it doesn't exist.

Man I wish all our sensitive government agencies would take lessons from whoever has Obama's birth certificates, work records, college papers and transcripts, etc. under wraps because it must be one of the world's most secure systems.  Nothing the FBI or CIA or Homeland Security has can compare.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

del said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...



Government bodies legal definition of Government bodies. Government bodies synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary..


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



Probably a parent.  That's what happened with both my children.  While the wife was busy squeezing out both the munchkins, I filled out the paperwork.  The hospital took that paperwork and from it completed the hospital certification that was then sent to the government to generate their official birth certificate.



bigrebnc1775 said:


> One more time in the year's between 1960 to 1980 African was not thought of as a race. People would not have thought of the idea filling out any official document using that terminology.



One more time what you want to be does not mean that your desires are reality.

It would be perfectly natural for someone from Africa referring to themselves as "African".



>>>>


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > WorldWatcher said:
> ...





> Probably a parent.  That's what happened with both my children.  While the wife was busy squeezing out both the munchkins, I filled out the paperwork.  The hospital took that paperwork and from it completed the hospital certification that was then sent to the government to generate their official birth certificate.


You did not Identify the race the hospital did.
The only thing you filled out was names and your personal information and your wifes. And what you filled out they made sure it was correct.




> It would be perfectly natural for someone from Africa referring to themselves as "African".



Not in the 60's How can anyone identify with a word with they do not know there is a word. They would use the word that was normal for that period of time. Black and Negro


----------



## geauxtohell (Apr 8, 2011)

Goddammit!  Why in the fuck is this in the conspiracy theory zone?  Now that Trump and his hairpiece are in the birther camp, it's automatically legitimate!

BTW, what are they finding in Hawaii?  

Tune in to next week's talk show appearance to find out!

This is going to be HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just like that whole AC thing that daddy had to bail me out of!


----------



## Foxfyre (Apr 8, 2011)

I debated awhile whether to post this video.  It was obviously edited together by passionate birthers that I believe also to be a bit dishonest.  For instance, in the clip showing Pres. Obama with George Stephanopolous, Obama said something to the effect that "It is true Senator McCain has not made an issue of my Muslim faith. . . ."  That is shown on the video.  What is not shown is Stephanopolous immediately correcting him, "You mean your Christian faith" at which Obama said, "My Christian faith. . . "

Freudian slip?  I dunno, but the whole clip did need to be there for an honest in context report.

But I am going to post it because it pulls together all the stuff that the birthers use to keep the question alive and toward the end there is a comprehensive discussion of what is a natural born citizn.  I have not heard it described as they describe it on the tape but I'll let the legal eagles decide if it is an accurate discussion of what constitutes a natural born citizen.

Anyhow the tape is interesting but it is heavily edited and should be taken with a huge grain of salt:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwhKuunp8D8&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - Not Natural Born -- TRUTH MATTERS[/ame]


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


I love how CON$ have anointed themselves to speak for all people of all colors and nationalities.

LINGUISTICS AND AFRICA | Black or African | Sub-Saharan Africa | Feminism | Pre-Colonial

Black is a construction which articulates a recent social-political reality of people of color (pigmented people).​ *Black is not a racial family, an ethnic group or a super-ethnic group.*  Political  blackness is thus not an identity but moreover a   social-political consequence of a world which after colonialism and  slavery  existed in those color terms. 

                                                                      "white"  depends for its stability on its negation, "black." Neither exists  without the other, and both come into being at the moment of imperial  conquest. - Franz Fanon 

                          Africans  have gone from Negro (Spanish for Black)  to Black (English for Negro)  what has changed? Only the language. *An identity is generally  geographical and ties the  people to their native environment *or their  core doctrine (Jews of Judaism,  Muslims of Islam, Chinese of China).                                                                        

*African and  black are not interchangeable* just  as Dark continent and Africa are  not. Self-determination  allows a people to re-examine definitions and  sculpt them to their reality.  Black, like Negro is facing linguistic  extinction, especially in academic  circles, due to its poor foundation  in speaking about the oldest and most diverse people on the planet.  Notice today only two races  go by color labels; The race with the most  oppression and the ones inflicting that oppression. "I am black and  proud" is a song, nothing else. It is the rhetoric necessary at the time  to lift us up. It has run its course and has expired. 






                                                                             "Black tells  you how you look without telling you who you are. *A more proper word for  our people, African, relates us to land, history and culture."*












 -                               John Henrik Clarke

*BLACK AND THE 60's*

Indians  are from India , Chinese from China . There is no country called  Blackia or Blackistan and* a people must respectfully be tied to geography*  as skin color is not the primary definitive identifier.. Hence, the  ancestry-nationality model is more respectful and accurate:  African-American, African-British, African-Arabian, African-Brazilian,  and African-Caribbean. And if Black people has some validity as a  political term it can not be limited in its application to people of  African decent. Nostalgia is not an accurate place for African  linguistic self-determination, and blackness is blatantly a cultural  inheritance of oppressed people. The pattern of acceptance of a black  identity globally walks hand in hand with European cultural oppression. 
                             Black pride is  reactionary pride, necessary then, Irrelevant now. As we blossom into a  greater historical and cultural awareness of a Motherland a detachment  with fictional attachments to slave names must be challenged, and we  must end the romance with things that are a disservice to our identity  today.

                        It is worth noting parts of  African that are culturally intact such as in Ethiopia, Mali, Somalia,  Nigeria and Niger have absolutely no fondness or linguistic presence of a  "black identity."


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 8, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > WorldWatcher said:
> ...



Don't bring that shit back in here

1997
Revisions to the Standards for the Classification of Federal Data on Race and Ethnicity

5. Comments on Recommendations for Terminology

Comments on terminology largely supported the Interagency Committee's recommendations to retain the term "American Indian," to change "Hawaiian" to "Native Hawaiian," and to change "Black" to "Black or African American." There were a few requests to include "Latino" in the category name for the Hispanic population.

Revisions to the Standards for the Classification of Federal Data on Race and Ethnicity | The White House
From the New York Times
'African-American' Becomes a Term for Debate


"I've had to check several different boxes in my lifetime," said Donna Brazile, 44, Al Gore's campaign manager in the 2000 presidential race. "In my birth certificate I'm identified as a Negro. Then I was black. Now I readily check African-American. I have a group of friends and we call ourselves the colored girls sometimes, to remind ourselves that we ain't too far from that, either." 

The term African-American has crept steadily into the nation's vocabulary since 1988, when the Rev. Jesse Jackson held a news conference to urge Americans to use it to refer to blacks. 

"It puts us in our proper historical context," Mr. Jackson said then, adding in a recent interview that he still favored the term. "Every ethnic group in this country has a reference to some land base, some historical cultural base. African-Americans have hit that level of cultural maturity." 

Since 1989, the number of blacks using the term has steadily increased, polls show. In a survey that year conducted by ABC and The Washington Post, 66 percent said they preferred the term black, 22 preferred African-American, 10 percent liked both terms and 2 percent had no opinion. 

In 2000, the Census Bureau for the first time allowed respondents to check a box that carried the heading African-American next to the term black. In 2003, a poll by the same news organizations found that 48 percent of blacks preferred the term African-American, 35 percent favored black and 17 percent liked both terms. 

'African-American' Becomes a Term for Debate


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...




Oh bullshit.  The hospital would have had no idea what to put down.  They wouldn't know whether to put White (Caucasian) or if I could claim a Hispanic derivative, or if I had Native American blood.  (And no you can't tell just by looking at people.) 

Actually I filled out the paperwork and it included race/ethnicity information, that is what is on the birth certificate.

What do you think the government conducts investigations as to race/ethnicity of it's patients?  Do they use the local police, FBI or to they hire private investigators?




bigrebnc1775 said:


> > It would be perfectly natural for someone from Africa referring to themselves as "African".
> 
> 
> 
> Not in the 60's How can anyone identify with a word with they do not know there is a word. They would use the word that was normal for that period of time. Black and Negro




You don't think that an African in the 1960's would know the word "African".

Give me a break.


>>>>


----------



## Zona (Apr 8, 2011)

Let us all know how this turns out.  

I cant wait to find out what he found out in hawaii.  I know his ratings aregoing up but that was just a coinkydink.  

Rubes.


----------



## Zona (Apr 8, 2011)

geauxtohell said:


> Goddammit!  Why in the fuck is this in the conspiracy theory zone?  Now that Trump and his hairpiece are in the birther camp, it's automatically legitimate!
> 
> BTW, what are they finding in Hawaii?
> 
> ...



nicely done sir.


----------



## idb (Apr 8, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


You're talking about American terminology...there's a bigger world out there beyond America and not everyone in it conforms to the American bureaucratic handbook.
Obama senior wasn't American, I'm sure he ever gave a toss what the US government decided what he should be called.

As an aside, I did a wee bit of research;
here's a quote from an American novelist, Harriet Beecher Stowe, who lived and died in the 19th century


> The African race evidently are made to excel in that department which lies between the sensuousness and the intellectualwhat we call the elegant arts. These require rich and abundant animal nature, such as they possess; and if ever they become highly civilised, they will excel in music, dancing and elocution.



In 1862 Congress resolved, in support of Abraham Lincoln's program for black emancipation and resettlement;


> that the President is hereby authorized to make provision for the transportation, colonization and settlement in some tropical country beyond the limits of the United States, of such persons of African race, made free by the provisions of this act, as may be willing to emigrate ...


The Great Emancipator Abraham Lincoln and the Issue of Race

Agendas from the Senate


> 5th Congress May 15, 1791 - March 3, 1799
> 
> Senate, 2nd Session
> Quakers, memorial and address from Society of Friends, requesting the attention of the Congress to the oppressed condition of the African race





> 8th Congress, October 17, 1803 - March 3, 1805
> Senate, 2nd Session
> Quakers, a petition from the people called, relating to the African race, received and read by the yeas and nays


American Slavery, Congressional Records

Lincoln again on black emancipation


> This suggestion of the possible redemption of the African race and the African continent was made twenty five years ago. Every succeeding year has added to the hope of its realization. May it indeed by realized!


Colonization - Abraham Lincoln

The question I suppose is...are you suggesting that Lincoln had no idea what he was talking about?


----------



## idb (Apr 8, 2011)

del said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...



Man, you know a lot of science stuff.


----------



## del (Apr 9, 2011)

idb said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



i studied under billy graham


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

idb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...





> You're talking about American terminology...there's a bigger world out there beyond America and not everyone in it conforms to the American bureaucratic handbook.
> Obama senior wasn't American, I'm sure he ever gave a toss what the US government decided what he should be called.



However, we are talking about an American issue dealing with 1960's American racial identifier words, on American documents.




> As an aside, I did a wee bit of research;
> here's a quote from an American novelist, Harriet Beecher Stowe, who lived and died in the 19th century



You did, thats lovely Here you go Abraham Lincoln on the same subject



> There is a natural disgust in the minds of nearly all white people to the idea of indiscriminate amalgamation of the white and black races ... A separation of the races is the only perfect preventive of amalgamation, but as an immediate separation is impossible, the next best thing is to keep them apart where they are not already together. If white and black people never get together in Kansas, they will never mix blood in Kansas.


I have a question for you is American a race?



> Between late August and mid-October, 1858, Lincoln and Douglas travelled together around the state to confront each other in seven historic debates. On August 21, before a crowd of 10,000 at Ottawa, Lincoln declared:
> 
> I have no purpose directly or indirectly to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.
> 
> ...


The Great Emancipator Abraham Lincoln and the Issue of Race


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > WorldWatcher said:
> ...





> You don't think that an African in the 1960's would know the word "African".



No he would not use that word if that word was not used as a racial identifer, and in the 
60's it was not.



> Oh bullshit.  The hospital would have had no idea what to put down.  They wouldn't know whether to put White (Caucasian) or if I could claim a Hispanic derivative, or if I had Native American blood.  (And no you can't tell just by looking at people.)




If you were black do you think they would allow you to place yourself as white? or visa versa


----------



## idb (Apr 9, 2011)

So...not only are you saying that Lincoln didn't know what he was talking about, you're using the opportunity to impugn his name by posting irrelevant quotes suggesting that he is a racist!


----------



## idb (Apr 9, 2011)

And to answer your question, I would suggest that the indigenous Americans would say that "yes, American is a race".


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...




Someone from Africa and not familiar with American racial identifiers, actually it makes perfect sense in the 1960's.



bigrebnc1775 said:


> > Oh bullshit.  The hospital would have had no idea what to put down.  They wouldn't know whether to put White (Caucasian) or if I could claim a Hispanic derivative, or if I had Native American blood.  (And no you can't tell just by looking at people.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The person taking the hospital forms and then typing up medical records and hospital birth records - that are the sent to the government to create the official birth certificate - will never have even seen the person that filled out the forms.

Yes they would.  Racial identifiers are SELF identification and when that information is provided by the individual it is completely up to them to SELF identify.  If a fair skinned Irish redhead walks into our office to be hired and fills out her paperwork and lists black as her race, then that's what goes into the system.  We do not have the authority to override a self identification.

That's her choice and we follow the self identification.

Our HR Specialists, the ones who do the data entry on computers now, mostly likely have never seen the person face to face.  Staffing hires people and gets the paperwork filled out then passes it over to a different section for in-processing.


>>>>


----------



## idb (Apr 9, 2011)

Also, as I said earlier, anyone from Kenya at that time was likely to be highly politicised and identify strongly as an African.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

idb said:


> Also, as I said earlier, anyone from Kenya at that time was likely to be highly politicised and identify strongly as an African.



Sure but African is not a race. Is American a race?


----------



## idb (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Also, as I said earlier, anyone from Kenya at that time was likely to be highly politicised and identify strongly as an African.
> ...



Yep, they've been there for tens of thousands of years.


----------



## paperview (Apr 9, 2011)

Is Hawaiian a race?

Is Japanese a race?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

idb said:


> So...not only are you saying that Lincoln didn't know what he was talking about, you're using the opportunity to impugn his name by posting irrelevant quotes suggesting that he is a racist!



OMG You used comments from Lincoln, and I did too. It wasn't an attack on him but it was to counter your comment that he used the word African race, which makes it relevant.
That like saying the American race.


----------



## idb (Apr 9, 2011)

There's also the space race, aliens and all that - in fact, maybe that's what Mr Trump is, what with all the probing he's doing...
After all, his birth certificate was found to be fake.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

idb said:


> And to answer your question, I would suggest that the indigenous Americans would say that "yes, American is a race".



Here in America they're called American Indians then it changed to Native American, it's just word used of the time and how people have been indoctrinated to think, just as it was in the 60's with the term Black or Negro identifer for of the black race.


----------



## paperview (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > So...not only are you saying that Lincoln didn't know what he was talking about, you're using the opportunity to impugn his name by posting irrelevant quotes suggesting that he is a racist!
> ...


Oh look:

&#8220;Certificate of Live Birth&#8221; from Hawaii dated 1973:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bryajw/HardestyPhotos/Keala%20Hardesty%20birth%20certificate.jpg

 Before computerization, so it is hand  typed.

 The actual birth was in 1907.  Notice here, it is an abstract of the &#8220;vault certificate.&#8221; 

It lacks the same  information as Obama&#8217;s COLB (i.e. hospital, doctor&#8217;s name, etc. ) 

_Yet  is  is a CERTIFICATE rather than a CERTIFICATION of live birth,  demonstrating  that the words (as understood by the Hawaiian DoH) are  identical in  meaning._

Father&#8217;s race:  &#8220;American.&#8221;
 &#8220;American&#8221; is no more or less a &#8220;race&#8221; than &#8220;African.&#8221; 








 And hoobeedoobies, there it is on an Hawaiian birth certificate!


----------



## paperview (Apr 9, 2011)

And just to top it off, this is how Kenyans reported their race in their own country in the 1960s:*Race.- Write European, Arab, Somali, or African, etc. Asians must write Indian or Pakistan.*​Proof: Instructions for the 1962 Population Census of Kenya

Now, do you really think it's so wild a Kenyan would have identified himself as _African_?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

paperview said:


> Is Hawaiian a race?
> 
> Is Japanese a race?


No Japanese is not a race they are called oriental or Asian


----------



## paperview (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> > Is Hawaiian a race?
> ...


The race listed is what is stated by the parent or parents.  You will  also find Japanese listed under "race" on many Hawaiian BC's. Agreed. Japanese  is not a race, but there it is.

And spend some moments thinking about this:  If this was a forgery, as  some purport, don't you think the alleged forgers would be smart enough  to not put that there, waving red flags for the red meat crowd?  

It's a true copy of what is on his long form, which apparently lists his father's race as "African."  That's what you need to know.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

paperview said:


> And just to top it off, this is how Kenyans reported their race in their own country in the 1960s:*Race.- Write European, Arab, Somali, or African, etc. Asians must write Indian or Pakistan.*​Proof: Instructions for the 1962 Population Census of Kenya
> 
> Now, do you really think it's so wild a Kenyan would have identified himself as _African_?



Are you saying there were no whites in Kenya in the 60's? Or blacks in Eroupe wo also lived in Kenya?


----------



## idb (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > So...not only are you saying that Lincoln didn't know what he was talking about, you're using the opportunity to impugn his name by posting irrelevant quotes suggesting that he is a racist!
> ...



But he said it nevertheless, I was right.

It shows that African has been considered a race for over 200 years.
Mr Obama was an educated man and he would have known this and you must now concede that there is a direct line from Abraham Lincoln to Barack Obama's birth certificate...good lord, it should be in the National Archives with the Constitution!
Maybe it is, maybe that's why they can't find it in Hawaii.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

paperview said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > paperview said:
> ...



The term African would not have been used in the 60's to identify Race in America, the tem is used now the obama BC that has a date stamp of 07 would show African as a race, because it's a term used now.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

idb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



He also called them the black race, or negros.


----------



## paperview (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> > And just to top it off, this is how Kenyans reported their race in their own country in the 1960s:*Race.- Write European, Arab, Somali, or African, etc. Asians must write Indian or Pakistan.*​Proof: Instructions for the 1962 Population Census of Kenya
> ...


What the fuck?

Are you really this dense (stupid question, I know...)

I'm with del: _do you need post it notes to remember to breathe?_


----------



## idb (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> > And just to top it off, this is how Kenyans reported their race in their own country in the 1960s:*Race.- Write European, Arab, Somali, or African, etc. Asians must write Indian or Pakistan.*​Proof: Instructions for the 1962 Population Census of Kenya
> ...



If you read the quote from paperview it says "Write European, Arab, Somali, or African etc..." suggesting that you can choose whatever you want - presumably you could write 'White Kenyan' or 'Black European' or whatever but 'African' is clearly also acceptable.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

Free or slave as a racial identifier


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

paperview said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > paperview said:
> ...



Can't answer?


----------



## idb (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Free or slave as a racial identifier



They aren't races!


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

idb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > paperview said:
> ...


Acceptable in Kenya, fine but not in America in the 60's. The paper work would never make it past the application steps. It would never get past the government employee.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

idb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Free or slave as a racial identifier
> ...



It was used in the 1860 census.


----------



## idb (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



I hope they were sacked for such a heinous display of incompetence then!


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

idb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



It was the 60's. Can't change it now.


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Acceptable in Kenya, fine but not in America in the 60's. The paper work would never make it past the application steps. It would never get past the government employee.




Some people never learn to never say never, especially when it comes to government employees.

Some people never learn.





>>>>


----------



## idb (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Hmmm...I can't see any signatures, no embossing and the paper looks different to other documents I've seen from the period.
It's clearly fake.


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Free or slave as a racial identifier




So since you are now citing the Census, is it fair to assume you are now again talking about the federal government (you know the ones that do the Census) and we are no longer talking about a local hospital and an African filling out a blank form while his wife is in labor?


Or do you just get to dance around and switch up as you are backed into a corner?


>>>>


----------



## mudwhistle (Apr 9, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



Personally I think you should have to undergo a full Top Secret Clearance investigation going back to your childhood (and the results released to the public) to see if you have any ties to enemies of the state. Also ties with groups that want to overthrow the government should be considered and used as a disqualification. The constitution is too vague and this loop-hole allows placing the power of the White House in the hands of a plant funded by foreign groups. The havoc he or she could and has caused is unbelievable.

His birth certificate is a minor problem because I believe both of his parents were U.S. citizens. However there seems to be a problem with who his real father is. I believe this possibility is a source of embarrassment for him and is why he's hiding his original certificate. If he had a different father then the one listed on his phony replacement cert. I don't think that it would disqualify him, it would just be a minor issue that his supporters would simply rally behind. 

Take for example that his real father is a Communist with a penchant for pole-smoking, who got high one night and inadvertently had a one-night-stand with his mother after a communist rally, I seriously doubt that Democrat voters would reject him. It's not his fault who his father was. 

The fact that he's lying about it shows a weakness of character, but that has already been firmly established anyway through his conduct while in office. Democrat voters don't seem to shun candidates with weak character traits, they embrace them.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

idb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



It's not a fake.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Free or slave as a racial identifier
> ...



Nope what I talking about is the terms of the times and using the Census as an example.  Up until 1865 Blacks were call Freemen slaves negros or black.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > California Girl said:
> ...



Doesn't obama have a top secert clearance?


----------



## idb (Apr 9, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > California Girl said:
> ...


Or...maybe he's just playing the 'Rope-a-dope' tactic, taking the punches and letting his opponents work themselves up into a frothy frenzy over his birth certificate and then suddenly, late into the next presidential campaign, he remembers that he has his long form certificate, a 16mm movie of his birth, a souvenir baby cup with "Congratulations Mr & Mrs Obama on the birth of your lovely son, Barack, in this very hospital - Kapi'olani Medical Centre, on August 4 1961" engraved on it, his wrist tag and a photograph of the whole delivery team posing with him and his parents with a television in the background with Walter Cronkite reporting on the Bay of Pigs invasion........in his sock drawer.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

idb said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



And that would be great, but why would any sane person do that?


----------



## idb (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



To destroy his opponents' credibility.
They'd be left standing there with goggle eyes and their mouths flapping open and shut like dying fish.
Ooooh he's a smart fella your president.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

idb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...


Maybe so, I don't think anyone will disagree that is not a smart cold calculating person but.... oh well thats American poltics for you.


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 9, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



"The only people who don't want to disclose the truth are people with something to hide." - Barack Obama  August 21, 2010.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



Nice quote but do you have a link?


----------



## paperview (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


Oh my dear loordo.

I wonder if the government employee who typed this out was flogged for putting down American as a race!


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Are you saying that when Obama's father filled out the form -- and as far as I can tell there were no 'tick boxes', it just said 'color or race' with a line for him to fill in with whatever he chose and if African wasn't 'the norm' at that time -- wouldn't whoever typed it up change the 'African' answer to 'negro or colored'?  

Ok, it's early and the coffee hasn't even begun to hit yet.  Why are we arguing about the African answer again?


----------



## paperview (Apr 9, 2011)

> Why are we arguing about the African answer again?



Because bigreb is an idiot?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

paperview said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Was samual White or black or Native American?


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 9, 2011)

paperview said:


>



Here's one from 1964, which is likely what was used in 1961.  They changed the question from 'race' to 'color or race'.




Zoom-boing said:


>


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



44 - Obama warns of hidden corporate money in midterm campaigns


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



An educated guess but back in 1907 race was likely meant as 'where are you from' rather than 'what color are you'.  The mother's race is listed as 'Hawaiian'.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



obama was born in what year? If he was born before 64 would that apply to him?

One more thing on the side it said the document was revised on 11/64 do this document would not have been used in 61.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > paperview said:
> ...



OH so it's just talking about the Ethnicity of the person and not their actual race


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > paperview said:
> ...



Ah!  I didn't see that.  Hmm, still looking for a 1961 form.


----------



## mudwhistle (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



I seriously doubt it, however it's not a requirement to be POTUS. His admitted drug use is a major flag. He has plenty of other reasons not to get one.



I've hashed this over many times before. I held one while I was in the Army. If I had Obama's background I never would have gotten one. I was flagged because I revealed that I had been molested when I was 6 years old. However nothing came of it from the investigation so I was granted a clearance. A friend of mine was flagged for mooning N. Korean soldiers while he was a crew-chief on a chopper stationed on the DMZ. He got his clearance eventually too. But being friends with communists, domestic terrorists, having a Transsexual nanny and hiding this from the public or lying about your birth certificate, would flag his clearance as well. 

Adjudicative Guidelines for Determining Eligibility for Access to Classified Information



> (c) The ultimate determination of whether the granting or continuing of eligibility for a security clearance is clearly consistent with the interests of national security must be an overall common sense determination based upon careful consideration of the following, each of which is to be evaluated in the context of the whole person, as explained further below:
> 
> (1) GUIDELINE A: Allegiance to the United States;
> 
> ...


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



I always thought race and ethnicity were interchangeable?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



WOW a president who is in charge of the deploing of top secert weapons can't get a top secert clearance. Thats just


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



Ethnicity vs Race - Difference and Comparison | Diffen


----------



## paperview (Apr 9, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> An educated guess but back in 1907 race was likely meant as 'where are you from' rather than 'what color are you'.  The mother's race is listed as 'Hawaiian'.



People _today_ will occasionally list their race as "Japanese."


----------



## paperview (Apr 9, 2011)

Y'all jest get it though your heads the race listed on a birth certificate -as on census forms- is what the person, his or her, _self_ identifies as.


End of story.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

paperview said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > An educated guess but back in 1907 race was likely meant as 'where are you from' rather than 'what color are you'.  The mother's race is listed as 'Hawaiian'.
> ...



Let's get back to the 60's


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

paperview said:


> Y'all jest get it though your heads the race listed on a birth certificate -as on census forms- is what the person, his or her, _self_ identifies as.
> 
> 
> End of story.



Not in the 60's Maybe now


----------



## paperview (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> > Y'all jest get it though your heads the race listed on a birth certificate -as on census forms- is what the person, his or her, _self_ identifies as.
> ...




Yes. THEN & Now.

Ad even further back.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

paperview said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > paperview said:
> ...



nope not in America


----------



## Foxfyre (Apr 9, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



Not really.  One could be of the Caucasian race with an ethnicity of Italian, German, Scotch/Irish, Welsh, English or whatever.  One could be of the Negro race with an ethnicity of African, Jamaican, Haitian, New Yorker or whatever.  One could also be white with an ethnicity of South African or some other province in Africa.   One could be of the Asian race with an ethnicity of Vietnamese, Japanese, Korean, Hawaiian, etc. all of whom are very different people.   And on our own homeland, the Native American race encompasses a wide variety of ethnicities.


----------



## paperview (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


You just continue to show your stupidity.

You also show clearly you have never delved into any genealogical records - or apparently have any capacity to learn. 

It's an embarrassing display, but helpful to show the peak IQ level of birthers.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

paperview said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > paperview said:
> ...



Nope I will continue with the facts 60's word usage does not match with todays word usage.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Thanks


----------



## Foxfyre (Apr 9, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



I should qualify my previous post to say that often a person's ethnicity is sometimes used interchangeably with race; i.e. "Japanese race."   It isn't correct but is so common that we don't think much about it.  One of our best friends, for instance, is a man born in Hawaii to American born parents but descended from full blooded Japanese citizens with no other ethnicity mixed in so far as he knows going as far back as he can trace his family tree.  He is as American as you could ask anybody to be, but racially he considers himself full blooded Japanese which he is.  Technically Asian, but when you say 'Japanese' you think of a specific ethnic group.


----------



## Immanuel (Apr 9, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



Oh my goodness!  Whoever put that (referring to the quote addressed in the above post) on the teleprompter, clearly wasn't thinking.  Of course, neither was the President when he read it too us.  

Immie


----------



## paperview (Apr 9, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


Eskimo, or Inuit, is also listed as race on some Alaskan Birth Certificates.

Race is what a person identifies himself as.


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 9, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...




Just a technical correction, there is ethnic culture - which is a choice.  Then there is ethnicity which is determined by genetic relationship to your ancestors.

I don't think there is a "New Yorker" gene.  


>>>>


----------



## mudwhistle (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Clinton couldn't get one ether because of his drug use and other reasons that probably would have come up during an investigation.

Hillary, the same.


----------



## Zona (Apr 9, 2011)

del said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...



Thats almost as dumb as saying Bachman has her law degree from Oral roberts U. 

Wait, that is true? OH boy.


----------



## Foxfyre (Apr 9, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



No, there is no real New Yorker 'ethnicity', but you would believe there was if you had been raised in the southwest as I was and then had to work with a couple of them.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

paperview said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



OK I identify myself as an African American. How does that work for you?


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 9, 2011)

paperview said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



Are birth certificates worded differently for each state or is it just one generic form used by all states?


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 9, 2011)

Maybe I missed the answer to this . . . why is there concern that Obama's father is listed as African on the COLB?


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 9, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> Maybe I missed the answer to this . . . why is there concern that Obama's father is listed as African on the COLB?




It's all part of "US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum > US Discussion > Conspiracy Theories".


A person born and raised in Africa who came to the United States would never, NEVER, NEVER EVER put "African" on a blank space on a hospital form.  As such it confirms that Obama was not born in Hawaii and that he's an alien posing as a human.


Hope that helps.



>>>>


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...




Works fine.  How ya' do'n bro?


>>>>


----------



## Zona (Apr 9, 2011)

By the way, how did that whole Trump is sending investigators to hawaii thing coming along?


----------



## Montrovant (Apr 9, 2011)

I wonder, is bigreb as willfully blind as he appears in this thread, or is he playing with us?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > paperview said:
> ...



Now I wonder how it will work for the government? And the NAACP?


----------



## candycorn (Apr 9, 2011)




----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

candycorn said:


>


That picture is not what it seems it is.


----------



## Immanuel (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



No, it is not, but so?  

Immie


----------



## candycorn (Apr 9, 2011)

ANYTHING to change the blanking subject.

BHO is a citizen and the President and will be until voted out of office or until his 2nd term expires.

The amount of time wasted on this subject is unreal.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



Even hat one little picture caused a few debates, as if obama had look at the young lady's behind. Due to the caption is the reason I said what I did.


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...




For the government and EEO reporting they will care less.  I do the EEO reporting for my school district.  Ethnicity/Race is based solely on self identification.  If you say you are something, then by law that's what we have to enter.  Under EEO reporting Guidelines, if you refuse to provide any input, the at the time of reporting your supervisor is allowed to make a selection based solely on physical observation.  The only way to override that is to end the refusal to report, supply your desired selection, and HR is required to report it that way.

Now if you apply for certain specific government programs, for example the Hawaiian Land Grant program, you may have to supply some documentation on ancestry.  Those programs usually require a specific percentage of your genetic make-up is derived from certain stock.  You can still claim to be Hawaiian, but if you don't have - for example - 1/4 of your genes from Hawaiian stock, you wouldn't qualify.



bigrebnc1775 said:


> And the NAACP?




The NAACP is a private organization, who gives a rats ass what they think.


>>>>


----------



## Immanuel (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Yeah, I know, but would you have faulted him for looking?

And the guy standing next to President Obama, I think is the French President, Sarkozy?, can you blame him either?  

Immie


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

candycorn said:


> ANYTHING to change the blanking subject.
> 
> BHO is a citizen and the President and will be until voted out of office or until his 2nd term expires.
> 
> The amount of time wasted on this subject is unreal.



Are you paying for that time?


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 9, 2011)

geauxtohell said:


> Goddammit!  Why in the fuck is this in the conspiracy theory zone?  Now that Trump and his hairpiece are in the birther camp, it's automatically legitimate!
> 
> BTW, what are they finding in Hawaii?
> 
> ...



I think it would have been more accurate for him to say "they're shocked at what they're not finding".  No bills of payment, nothing in paperwork associated with Obama's birth at either hospital.  How long do hospitals keep their records?  I thought forever.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...



Well from the looks of her age I would say she was a teenager at the time, and I would call him a prev.


----------



## Immanuel (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



No way.

In fact, to me she looks like Chelsea Clinton from behind.  Hair not figure although, I have not seen Chelsea lately, maybe she has developed a figure too.

Still too young for either of them, but not a teenager.

Immie


----------



## Foxfyre (Apr 9, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> Maybe I missed the answer to this . . . why is there concern that Obama's father is listed as African on the COLB?



I could see somebody at the time Obama was born listing his race as "African" most especially if the father was from Africa.   Alex Haley in his epic novel "Roots" referred to the common ancester of the family as 'the African' to distinguish him, the tribal figure, from those slaves born in the USA.

But while white racists would use a lot of derogatory terms for a black person in those days, "African" would not be a common designation.  And if it was Obama's mother or grandparents who furnished the information for the birth certificate, that might be an unusual term for them to use.  Or not.

I think it's just one more clue in the curiosity corner.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > WorldWatcher said:
> ...



So I can get in on some of those affirmative action programs?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe I missed the answer to this . . . why is there concern that Obama's father is listed as African on the COLB?
> ...





> But while white racists would use a lot of derogatory terms for a black person in those days, "African" would not be a common designation.  And if it was Obama's mother or grandparents who furnished the information for the birth certificate, that might be an unusual term for them to use.  Or not.



Thats the point I am tring to make.


----------



## Foxfyre (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



I know.  But I honestly don't know how off the wall that term would actually be.  Most especially for somebody married to or recently married to a Kenyan.  So while I'm willing for it to be one of many unanswered questions in the whole equation, I'm not convinced it is all that big a deal.


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...




If you can provide a genetic ancestry, probably.

Typically those programs are what you can prove (for ex. the Hawaiian Land Grant), but you are free to claim anything you'd like.


>>>>


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > WorldWatcher said:
> ...



Technically every American is African, I have relatives who are Black. But just calling yourself African American doesn't work. Hummm paperview seems to think a person can identify what their race is .


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...




Maybe because that is what the law allows and is in accordance with Federal Equal Employment Opportunity instructions.  Emphasis mine.


EQUAL EMPLOYMENT
OPPORTUNITY COMMISSION

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20507

EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY

STANDARD FORM 100, REV. January 2006, EMPLOYER INFORMATION REPORT EEO-1

INSTRUCTION BOOKLET

<<SNIP>>

4. RACE AND ETHNIC IDENTIFICATION

Self-identification is the preferred method of identifying the race and ethnic information necessary for the EEO-1 report. *Employers are required to attempt to allow employees to use self-identification to complete the EEO-1 report.* If an employee declines to self-identify, employment records or observer identification may be used.​


EEO-1 Instruction Booklet


>>>>


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > WorldWatcher said:
> ...



Actually that means nothing  you do not have to fill the forms out if you choose not to.. Needless to say The government and not the person is the final decision on what your race is.


----------



## mudwhistle (Apr 9, 2011)

Againsheila said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> > Goddammit!  Why in the fuck is this in the conspiracy theory zone?  Now that Trump and his hairpiece are in the birther camp, it's automatically legitimate!
> ...



My ole lady was born in a little town in AL that had a fire at city hall the burnt all of the records. She had to have it dupted so she could get a passport. To me that is the only excuse for making a copy like the one Obama uses.


----------



## Foxfyre (Apr 9, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > geauxtohell said:
> ...



My mom was born in Cedar Hill TX and that court house burned down years before she needed a copy of her birth certificate for a state job and subsequently to prove her identity to get social security.  Fortunately there were enough family witnesses still living to testify she was who she said she was plus entries in an old family Bible that allowed her to get a certified birth certificate.  It looked pretty much like all other Texas birth certificates though.


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > WorldWatcher said:
> ...


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


----------



## idb (Apr 9, 2011)

Getting back to the perving for a second...have you seen Sarkozy's wife?


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Apr 9, 2011)

this birth certificate issue brought up from Trump is just another smokescreen like 9/11 is just so he and the elite can get our attention away from the real crisis they have planned for us in the next couple of years.


----------



## idb (Apr 9, 2011)

9/11 inside job said:


> this birth certificate issue brought up from Trump is just another smokescreen like 9/11 is just so he and the elite can get our attention away from the real crisis they have planned for us in the next couple of years.



At last...some sanity is injected into the conversation!


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > WorldWatcher said:
> ...


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...





bigrebnc1775 said:


> Really? are they quailfied experts that can Identify what a persons race is?




There is no requirement to be an "expert", the reporting requirements are that if a person does not self-identify, then supervisory person can choose one for en employee.



bigrebnc1775 said:


> Junior you ain't proven shit yet.




I linked to the EEO reporting requirements.  You are so wrapped up about not admitting you are wrong that you ignore the evidence on how EEO reporting is done.

That's not my problem.

You've been proven wrong, you should be a man about it and simply admit your mistake.


>>>>


----------



## candycorn (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > ANYTHING to change the blanking subject.
> ...



Are you paying for yours?


----------



## Toro (Apr 9, 2011)

idb said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > this birth certificate issue brought up from Trump is just another smokescreen like 9/11 is just so he and the elite can get our attention away from the real crisis they have planned for us in the next couple of years.
> ...



You know that things have really gone off the rails when 9/11 inside nutjob sounds more reasonable than the birfers!


----------



## del (Apr 9, 2011)

Toro said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...





that is a true fact


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

candycorn said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



Yes I am.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



It wouldn't be a big deal if it was the only issue. However, it's just one piece of the puzzle.


----------



## candycorn (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



More than you think.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 9, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > WorldWatcher said:
> ...





> There is no requirement to be an "expert", the reporting requirements are that if a person does not self-identify, then supervisory person can choose one for en employee.



If I am tring to get a job through Affirmative action program you better have an expert to decide my race or I will sue your ass for everything your company owns. See how that works?



> You've been proven wrong, you should be a man about it and simply admit your mistake.



African was not a race in the 60's I have proven that Black or negro would be.


----------



## del (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > There is no requirement to be an "expert", the reporting requirements are that if a person does not self-identify, then supervisory person can choose one for en employee.
> ...








the only thing you've proven is that you're really, really stubborn and borderline retarded.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 9, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> African was not a race in the 60's I have proven that Black or negro would be.


Junior you ain't proven shit yet. All you have done is pontificate.

You need to post a Hawaiian BC from 1961 with Black or Negro as the race.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Apr 9, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



Apparently, when you talk to Obama's family, everyone remembers something different.  Bit of a problem.


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > There is no requirement to be an "expert", the reporting requirements are that if a person does not self-identify, then supervisory person can choose one for en employee.
> ...




It's against federal law to discriminate in hiring procedures based on race.

If your ancestry is white and you claim black, and the company found out about it, you'd be not hired for falsifying your employment records, then you wouldn't win the case.  Lying on employment documents is cause for non-selection or dismissal and has nothing to do with race.  You'd loose if you tried to sue, and more than likely the Judge would make you pay the employers court costs and legal fees.



bigrebnc1775 said:


> > You've been proven wrong, you should be a man about it and simply admit your mistake.
> 
> 
> 
> African was not a race in the 60's I have proven that Black or negro would be.



Wrong issue we were talking about.  You claimed that people could not self-identify for race/ethnicity, I showed you the EEO requirements that mandated that people self identify, if they choose not to one was chosen for them.

You are now trying to switch the subject that we had gotten into once you were proven wrong.

And you have in no way proven that an native African who came to this country and was handed a form with a fill in the blank would not have but "African".


>>>>


----------



## Truthseeker420 (Apr 10, 2011)

Maher: Bachmann's "Birth Certificate" Reads "Stupid, Even For A Baby"
LMAO!!!

RealClearPolitics - Video - Maher: Bachmann's "Birth Certificate" Reads "Stupid, Even For A Baby"


----------



## candycorn (Apr 10, 2011)

candycorn said:


>



So Was Bush:


----------



## idb (Apr 10, 2011)

*This* is why you get into politics...how else are you going to score a wife like this? (Nicholas Sarkozy and his wife, Carla)


----------



## idb (Apr 10, 2011)

And on top of that she does this!!!!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvyMG0z0FZY]YouTube - Carla Bruni - Quelqu&#39;un m&#39;a dit[/ame]


----------



## Truthseeker420 (Apr 10, 2011)

candycorn said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



lol


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

del said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > WorldWatcher said:
> ...



Or the samething can be said about you.


----------



## del (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



you can say all kinds of stupid shit.

this thread is proof of that. 

really, spanky, give it up.


----------



## idb (Apr 10, 2011)

del said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...



Spanky??!!


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > African was not a race in the 60's I have proven that Black or negro would be.
> ...



Here's something maybe? obama's BC  Date of birth Aug 4 1961 Filed date Aug 8 1961 file number 151- 1961- 010641 






Another Hawaiian BC date of birth Aug 5 1961 filed date Aug 11 1961 file number 151- 1961- 10637





Why is the Certificate number of a child born a day later and filed 3 day later come before the child who was born a day earlier?


----------



## mudwhistle (Apr 10, 2011)

Toro said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...



Is a birfer somebody that thinks Obama was born in Kenya and obsesses about it, or just anybody that talks about it?

I have a problem with those that think you should never discuss the subject.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

Obama's 'CERTIFICATION of Live Birth' form reveals his Birth Registration was FILED in 1961 but was never fully ACCEPTED by the Hawaiian State Registrar's Office.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...





> I have a problem with those that think you should never discuss the subject



Ditto


----------



## paperview (Apr 10, 2011)

If it was not _accepted_ by the State, they never would have issued him one.  

Seriously.  You are  just going around in circles with 2 year old *aha!'s* that have been discussed and dismissed with enough volume to fill a small library.

You bring nothing new to the table.  You remind me of my 4 year old neighbor who is breathless to tell us all she has just learned how to sing the alphabet song.


----------



## Toro (Apr 10, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Is a truther someone who passionately believes Bush was behind 9/11, or just someone who thinks we should ask questions about it?  

If after all the evidence has been presented that Bush was not behind 9/11, but that person continues to ask the question anyways, is that person a truther?  

Is someone had a political agenda to rid the country of Bush continued to ask questions about 9/11 even though they had been answered simply because raising the issue raised doubts about Bush's fitness to be President, would that person have been a truther?

For the record, bigrednc is a birfer.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

paperview said:


> If it was not _accepted_ by the State, they never would have issued him one.
> 
> Seriously.  You are  just going around in circles with 2 year old *aha!'s* that have been discussed and dismissed with enough volume to fill a small library.
> 
> You bring nothing new to the table.  You remind me of my 4 year old neighbor who is breathless to tell us all she has just learned how to sing the alphabet song.





> If it was not _accepted_ by the State, they never would have issued him one.



That's the problem was he issued one, in 1961



> Seriously.  You are  just going around in circles with 2 year old *aha!'s* that have been discussed and dismissed with enough volume to fill a small library.


You are the one going in circles defending against any discrepancies. And in obama's case he has to many.




> You bring nothing new to the table.  You remind me of my 4 year old neighbor who is breathless to tell us all she has just learned how to sing the alphabet song


And you have not given any logical explanation why there are discrepancies on his BC


----------



## FuelRod (Apr 10, 2011)

paperview said:


> If it was not _accepted_ by the State, they never would have issued him one.
> 
> Seriously.  You are  just going around in circles with 2 year old *aha!'s* that have been discussed and dismissed with enough volume to fill a small library.
> 
> You bring nothing new to the table.  You remind me of my 4 year old neighbor who is breathless to tell us all she has just learned how to sing the alphabet song.



The human head weighs 8 pounds!


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

Toro said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Toro said:
> ...





> For the record, bigrednc is a birfer.



No I'm not, if there weren't so many questionable discrepancies I wouldn't think twice about it. I'm to smart to accept this document that has more discrepancies than it should. Even with the discrepancies if obama would have come forward and not drug his feet I might would have accepted what was given.


----------



## paperview (Apr 10, 2011)

Here's some help for you (why I bother, Goddess only knows): When you think you have come upon some earth-shattering birther news, check out this place: 
Obama Conspiracy Theories | Fishing for gold coins in a bucket of mud

It's your one stop shop to prevent yourself from looking like a further idiot. 

All the birther conspiracies, in one place, nicely organized and searchable: 

Start with this one: Date Filed v. Date Accepted (Update 3!) | Obama Conspiracy Theories


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Obama's 'CERTIFICATION of Live Birth' form reveals his Birth Registration was FILED in 1961 but was never fully ACCEPTED by the Hawaiian State Registrar's Office.


So Japanese was a race in Hawaii before the politically correct years of the 1980s.
Thank you.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

paperview said:


> Here's some help for you (why I bother, Goddess only knows): When you think you have come upon some earth-shattering birther news, check out this place:
> Obama Conspiracy Theories | Fishing for gold coins in a bucket of mud
> 
> It's your one stop shop to prevent yourself from looking like a further idiot.
> ...



Factcheck.org ? Factcheck is run by the Anneburg group the same group obama was a board member of. Try again.


From your first link do you have proof the BC you used was accepted by the State Registrar?

Oh and by the way wha about the post before? No comment on it?

Why is the Certificate number of a child born a day later and filed 3 day's later come before the child who was born a day earlier?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Obama's 'CERTIFICATION of Live Birth' form reveals his Birth Registration was FILED in 1961 but was never fully ACCEPTED by the Hawaiian State Registrar's Office.
> ...



I was waiting on that whats the date of the birth certificate? it's not the 60's is it? it is however closer to the 80's however both BC are still dated the same date of 11/01


----------



## paperview (Apr 10, 2011)

BigReb: <---- Absolutely no capacity to learn.


----------



## Foxfyre (Apr 10, 2011)

There are legitimate questions regarding many 'mysterious' facts of Obama's past and I don't fault anybody for being curious and wondering about and researching them.  If that makes them (or me) a 'birther' then so be it.

But for me the 'birthers' are those that manufacture 'evidence' and are absolutely convinced that the President is a Kenyan or a Muslim or whatever when there remain only questions about that but no verifiable proof.

There are legitimate questions, however, when you do have discrepancies in testimony of claimed eye witnesses and in the the newspaper accounts and the fact that the President chooses not to produce evidence that could clear it all up in an instant.  Giving a document to two personally friendly sources to 'verify' but not allowing anybody else to see it doesn't increase the confidence level.  The same goes with the lack of ANY school or college transcripts or records, no passport information, no verifiable work experience record, etc. and the President doesn't do himself any favors in the rumor mill when he chooses to keep all of that so tightly under lock and key.

There are less legitimate questions surrounding the buildings damaged and destroyed at 9/11 but I don't fault anybody for being curious and wondering about and researching that either.   I do consider the 'truthers' those that are convinced President Bush or somebody else in the government blew up the buildings when there is no verifiable or credible evidence of that.

Wondering, being curious, researching, checking the facts is not being a conspiracy theorist.  Not be willing to even discuss it or see what is there, however, could be considered brainwashed devotion that will often be misplaced.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


I pontificate that before the 1980s the common usage was Yellow or Oriental. That settles it.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



Again both still have the same rev. dated of 11/01


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


So you are now saying that African is a valid race because they both have a rev date of 11/01.
Thank you again.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

paperview said:


> BigReb: <---- Absolutely no capacity to learn.



Speak for yourself. 

OH and I ask again

Why is the Certificate number of a child born a day later and filed 3 day's later come before the child who was born a day earlier? 
And I will also add the baby had a twin sister born four minutes later. Guess what her Certificate number was 151-61-10638





Again here's obamas


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



Which came first 2001 or 1961?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> There are legitimate questions regarding many 'mysterious' facts of Obama's past and I don't fault anybody for being curious and wondering about and researching them.  If that makes them (or me) a 'birther' then so be it.
> 
> But for me the 'birthers' are those that manufacture 'evidence' and are absolutely convinced that the President is a Kenyan or a Muslim or whatever when there remain only questions about that but no verifiable proof.
> 
> ...



Worth repeating^^^^^^^^^^^^


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


Which came first 2001 or 1977?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



Don't be stupid.
Both BC are dated  rev. 11/01 neither are before the 80's the documents were revised in 2001 Japanese is a race identifer in 2001 just as African is a race identifier in 2001 not in the 1960's Your mission was to produce a document that used african as a racial identifier before the 80's you haven't because these two documents were revised in 2001 which comes after the 80's


----------



## candycorn (Apr 10, 2011)

Toro said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...



Boy ,you've got that right!  

How much you wanna bet...and I know he's on 80 message boards and I SWEAR to you that I have no foreknowledge of this; none whatsoever.  

But...I'll bet you a $5 donation to USMB that this dipshit is talking about this "www.endofamericaXX.com" shit you've heard about on the radio as the "real crisis".  

I'm going to donate anyway to USMB but I swear, every thing this monkey hears advertised is the "next big thing".


----------



## candycorn (Apr 10, 2011)

So...

At what point do you think your life went off the rails?

When you started worrying about Bush's ducking of military service or the sequencing numbers of Hawaii birth certificates?


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


Not so fast there Slick! 

YOU were the one who claimed that the rev 11/01 BC Obama released was a fake because it gave African as a race, because Black or Negro was the common usage in 1961. Now you say African IS a valid race on the Obama 11/01 BC.
Mission Accomplished!


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

candycorn said:


> So...
> 
> At what point do you think your life went off the rails?
> 
> When you started worrying about Bush's ducking of military service or the sequencing numbers of Hawaii birth certificates?



Bush is gone
You don't find it odd that a child's certificate number who was born a day earlier  comes after the certificate number of two children born the next day?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



I have never said African was not a valid race in 2001. I said it was not  used as a racial identifier in the 60's. Try again sport.


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 10, 2011)

candycorn said:


> So...
> 
> At what point do you think your life went off the rails?
> 
> When you started worrying about Bush's ducking of military service or the sequencing numbers of Hawaii birth certificates?



So why would the certificate numbers be out of sequence?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > So...
> ...



Candycorn will try an argue that obama's birth was filed after the two children born the day after he was born. But on obama's BC it shows it was filed on the 8th of Aug and the two other babies were filed on the 11th of Aug in the same year.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...





bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


Busted, sucker!

There you are attacking the *rev 11/01 BC* because it listed African as race!!!!!!!!!


----------



## candycorn (Apr 10, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > So...
> ...



Beats me, I don't know their procedure for numbering.  There is a code that goes with the numbering in many places.  The healthcare entity I work for, for example, codes your patient number based on what hospital you're brought to or if you walk in, where you self-present.  

For example, You can be AC10-XXXXXXX tomorrow or you could have been AC27-XXXXXXX  if you had gone to a different hospital in the 1990' or AC18-XXXXXXX the day after tomorrow. 

Your inner self should be offended that your cerebral cortex has allowed you to waste this much of your life worrying about Hawaiian birth certificate sequencing numbers.


----------



## candycorn (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



Actually you suck at predicting what I was going to say almost as much as you suck at leading a life.
BIGREBNC1775


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



When did I say African was not use as a racial identifier in 2001? Never said it. My argument stupid is that African was not a racial identifier in the 60's


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


You have to admire the way CON$ will continue to lie in the face of the truth!!!


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Obama's 'CERTIFICATION of Live Birth' form reveals his Birth Registration was FILED in 1961 but was never fully ACCEPTED by the Hawaiian State Registrar's Office.
> ...



First point that's been brought up that actually MAY explain the word "African".  However, Japan is a country and Africa is a continent.  Also, many Japanese live in Hawaii.  To really compare it, his father would have to have been "Kenyan" not "African".


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



Did you read "all" of what he wrote, or just the parts that interest you.  The point is that in the 60's "African" was not considered a race in America but in 2000 to the present, it is....

I lived through the 60's, did you?  They were negros.  Few people called the black.  No one called them African.


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 10, 2011)

How come no one is discussing the fact that Trump's investigators haven't found any paperwork at either hospital on Obama....not even a bill....???


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



Again when did I say African was not used as a racial identifier in 2001?


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 10, 2011)

Againsheila said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


The point was that Japanese is no more a race than African, therefore race on the BCs was not limited to the common usage of the 1960s of White or Caucasian, Black or Negro, Yellow or Oriental, and Red or Native American Indian.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

Againsheila said:


> How come no one is discussing the fact that Trump's investigators haven't found any paperwork at either hospital on Obama....not even a bill....???



Because it kills obama's BC authenticity


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


Typical CON$ervative perpetual dumb act when caught lying.
Thank you.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



The racial identifiers Japanese and African are both on the documents revised dated 11/01 would they have been there as racial identifiers on the prespective years of 1961 and 1977. Japanese maybe in 1977 African in 1961 no it would not.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



When did I say African was not a racial identifier in 2001?


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



Again, did you live through the 60's?  Back then, because of WWII, Japanese was considered a race, at least unofficially.  African was not considered a race.  They were negroid or black.  

Also, because of the numbers of Japanese that live in Hawaii, I don't have a problem with it on a birth certificate.  Also, to compare, you would have to list him as "Kenyan" not "African"

why aren't you discussing the lack of any paperwork at either hospital that is being found by Trump's investigators?


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



You're just making yourself look stupid.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 10, 2011)

Againsheila said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...


how the hell do YOU know what paperwork Dump Truck's imaginary investigation did or did not find???

Did you know they found the name of the doctor who delivered Obama?
Dr. Rodney  T. West


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


Still milking that CON$ervative dumb act.


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



I read the article in the op....there was no mention of the doctor, you got a link, I'd like to read it.


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 10, 2011)

Againsheila said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



I did find this about the doctor:

e: Dr Rodney T West: "....Then, after practicing on the Big Island of Hawaii for a year, he returned to Honolulu and joined the Obstetrics and Gynecological department of the Straub Clinic. In December of l956, after delivering at least 5,OOO babies - and other things, he retired from the practice of medicine..." Another Obama lie is uncovered! The doctor whom they claim delivered Obama retired five years prior to his birth! INFO TAKEN FROM "PEARL HARBOR SURVIVORS PROJECT" WEBSITE.

Obama Was Not Born in a Honolulu Hospital - GINA COBB


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



You are making your own case for stupid of the year award. 

The racial identifiers Japanese and African are both on the documents revised dated 11/01 would they have been there as racial identifiers on the prespective years of 1961 and 1977. Japanese maybe in 1977 African in 1961 no it would not.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 10, 2011)

Againsheila said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...


There was no mention of a lack of paperwork either! So you give your link first.


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



How come in the hospital itself, okay? This is one of thein the hospital itself,* theres no records of his birth. In other words, it doesnt say how much they paid, where is the doctor, heres your room bill. You know, all the*

Read more: The Page by Mark Halperin | Trump Conducting Hawaii Investigation Into Obama's Birthplace

You should have read the whole article.....

It was heck finding it as it's old now.


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 10, 2011)

Againsheila said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



Here's the link to the actual Pearl Harbor Survivors Project page.  If he delivered a future president of the U.S. wouldn't that have been included in this information?  The date at the bottom of the page is 2010.  

http://www.ziaandtia.com/images/twisttoy.jpg  Oops, wrong link.

Here's the right one:

http://www.pearlharborstories.org/survivorpage.php?name=Rodney+West, M.D.&id=767


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 10, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> So why would the certificate numbers be out of sequence?




There is a very common sense reason as to why certificate numbers of two people born close together could be "out of sequence".  It requires an understanding of "HOW" paperwork is processed.  My undergraduate degree is in Industrial Technology which includes an area having to do with line queue theory,  process control, and motion-and-time studies***.

Two factors (off the top of my head) for the sequence being different from a process standpoint.

1.  Human based processing v. Computer based processing.

2.  Parallel processing v. Serial Processing​

*1.  Human based processing v. Computer based processing.*
Humans tend to process batches of paperwork in what is known as a LIFO Order (Last In, First Out).  In contrast to its counter part FIFO (First In, First Out).  A clerk sits at a desk and receives batches of work to perform.  Unless the process it tightly controlled (and government workers have never been known for tight control of processes) they will by default tend to process paperwork in the most convenient order.  (<<-- Note that says "convenient order")  The most convenient order may not be the order they were received, more than likely it is taking that which is on top of the "stack" (Last In) to be process (First out).  With human processing it is very easy to see an older piece of paper (First In) be processed (Last Out) later.  With human processing their is no guaranteed sequence that can be relied on.  Unlike modern computer systems that run batches in sequence because they are programmed for FIFO.  For example look at the printout of your credit card statement, transactions are processed FIFO down to the fractions of a second, so you better hope the payment gets in before that big charge.


*2.  Parallel processing v. Serial Processing*
The second factor that no one mentions is parallel v. serial processing.  Lets say that the government did have tight controls to ensure FIFO v. LIFO in how a clerk processes paperwork (not likely, but lest assume).  Another factor is that if ALL birth records from a hospital are shipped to a central location where ONLY ONE clerk processes the data, then you can question sequence.  However if transactions are processed at multiple locations and by multiple clerks then you run into sequence being off by parallel processing in two degrees (multiple locations and multiple clerks).  Because the same type of paperwork is processed in different locations and by different people there is no way to control the sequence.  Even if all the paperwork is processed at a single location, but by multiple clerks then you still cannot control the sequence once the paperwork is routed to the clerks.  They may both use the same "log" to assign numbers, but it depends on workload and time of day as to when they get to processing their individuals "stacks".  Remember it is very unlikely that the same clerk exclusively issues birth certificates, they may also processes death certificates, marriage certificates, and divorce degrees.  Different clerks my work on different functions at different times.


Interesting question, thanks, I haven't had to "think" in those terms in a number of years.  I'm a computer/database administrator know and computer batch processing can be quite a bit different.  Things tend to get - wonky - when humans get involved.






***If you have watched the 1950's version of the movie "Cheaper by the Dozen", it had to do with Frank Gilbreth who did a lot of work in motion-and-time from a manufacturing standpoint.  If you doubt me, Google "Therblig" and see what you get.  It's kind of funny really, well in geeky sort of way.


>>>>


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 10, 2011)

Againsheila said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



If Trump actually has something he needs to provide solid proof of it, not just his word.  Signed documents from hospital staff stating these things and such.  Otherwise he just looks like a loon.


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 10, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



Seems to me, if there were proof he was born in any of the hospitals, it would have surfaced by now, and they'd be using a doctor that hadn't retired 4 years before he was born.


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 10, 2011)

Againsheila said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



Well I can't argue with that.  Still . . solid proof is needed vs. just his word.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 10, 2011)

Againsheila said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...


CON$ are pathological Liars!!!
Pearl Harbor Survivors Project
Pearl Harbor Survivors Project
Pearl Harbor Survivors Project

No record of a Dr Rodney T West, Rodney T West. or Rodney West on the "PEARL HARBOR SURVIVORS PROJECT" WEBSITE!!!!!!!!!!
Busted again!

Dr Rodney T West retired in 1977!!!!!!!!

More testimony: Obama was born in K&#8230; | Obama Conspiracy Theories

[West] served    as Chief of Staff at  Kapiolani Maternity Hospital,    1953, and Medical Director, Straub Clinic, 1967-77.

On the same thread his great niece confirms that Rodney West was in fact still delivering babies.
Catherine West Dale says:
March  24, 2010 at 2:58 pm Catherine  West Dale(Quote)
 My great uncle was Dr Rodney West, and he delivered me at Kapiolani   Hospital on March 26, 1961, the same year Obama was born. That is a fact   and it is on my birth certificate.
 Catherine West Dale says:

March  25, 2010 at 11:56 am Catherine  West Dale(Quote)
  Ill ask my dad, he knows a lot more about his uncle than I do.
 Also wanted to add that Dr Rodney T. West delivered my sister at  Kapiolani Hospital in Mar 1964.
​


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 10, 2011)

Zoom-boing said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



I agree.  and we don't have solid proof either way.  IMO his so called "birthcerticate" is a sorry excuse for proof and until he shows his long form, he's just a pretender to the throne.  The fact that he won't makes me believe it doesn't exist.  To tell the truth, it doesn't matter, he still traveled on an Indonesian passport after the age of majority and since Indonesia doesn't accept duel citizenship he would have had to give up his American citizenship and that also makes him unqualified.  The reason the Supreme court continues to refuse to hear the cases is because they know it would tear out country apart when the truth comes out.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > So why would the certificate numbers be out of sequence?
> ...



That almost makes sense and viable, but for the fact of the timeline. obama's BC was filed on aug 8 the two twins BC were filed on Aug 11 of the same year. I could see what you said happening if filing the paperwork happen on the same day.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 10, 2011)

Againsheila said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...


But there is a record of his birth, there's a BC. In that same interview Dump Truch lied about his geandmother being at Obama's birth, so how stupid do you have top be to believe anything Dump Truck says???


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



He's listed there.

Pearl Harbor Survivors Project


----------



## Zona (Apr 10, 2011)

Againsheila said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



The whole birth announcement thing in the paper is just a coinkydink? Righty? They knew back then, he was a Manchurian candidate back then, didnt they.  (Do you know how insane this sounds?)  The fact that the birth certificate was already shown doesn't matter does it?  The fact that this charlatan is bringing this up again to boost his ratings on his horrible show doesn't matter does it?  Burfers are such jokes.

First Trump said someone would remember and when someone said they did remember, trump said they were a liar. 

This is comedy at its finest.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 10, 2011)

Againsheila said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...


You would think CON$ would have learned by now not to believe anything from a CON$ervative source!!!! 
The Dr retired in 1977!!!!!


----------



## del (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



you left out the *is* between argument and stupid.


----------



## Zona (Apr 10, 2011)

You want something hard to find, find out anything on Palin's last baby.  She went from not being pregnant to having a baby, all the while no one seeing her daughter.  

That's much much harder to authenticate.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



This is hard proof? a post from a blog is your proof?



> Catherine West Dale says:
> March  24, 2010 at 2:58 pm Catherine  West Dale(Quote)
> My great uncle was Dr Rodney West, and he delivered me at Kapiolani   Hospital on March 26, 1961, the same year Obama was born. That is a fact   and it is on my birth certificate.
> Catherine West Dale says:
> ...



Here's another post by her

Catherine West Dale March 25, 2010 at 11:54 am # My true copy of my birth cert, including the hospital and signature of Dr Rodney T. West, was issued July 17, 1984. Different states, at different times, include or disclude certain info.


----------



## Zoom-boing (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



According to this he retired from practicing medicine in 1956 and went into the administration end of things.  That he retired in 1977 doesn't mean much if what he retired from isn't listed.  



> Then, after practicing on the Big Island of Hawaii for a year, he returned to Honolulu and joined the Obstetrics and Gynecological department of the Straub Clinic. In December of l956, after delivering at least 5,000 babies - and other things, he retired from the practice of medicine. In l963, he served as the President of the Hawaii Medical Association and in 1975, he helped found and was the first president of the American College of Physician Executives.



Pearl Harbor Survivors Project


----------



## Zona (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



Its like he can just throw out anything and people wont question him.  its sickening.  The granmother thing was debunked a long time ago yet Trump throws it out like its still a fact.  

Burfers are idiots.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

del said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



You are attacking me for defending myself when I'm being acused of lying? What's up with that?


----------



## del (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



you aren't your argument.

your argument is stupid.

sorry


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

del said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...



When have I said African was not used as a racial identifier in 2001? both documnent are revised date 11/01 they aren't reised date 1980


----------



## del (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



frankly, i don't doubt that you're being truthful.

the argument is ludicrous on its face.

sorry


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

del said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...



If that was the only discrepancy I would not mention it. It's the little things that will bring the bigger things down.


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



Again, I watched that interview with Obama's grandmother on Youtube with two people from Kenya.  When she said she was present at his birth, that's what she said, she was talking about Obama JR, not her son.  He was not lying.  Obama's grandmother says she was there at his birth and she never left Kenya.  The Kenyan ambassador says Obama was born in Kenya....everybody says he was born there except him and there is no proof that he was born here.

When a talk show host asked the Kenyan ambassador if Obama's birthplace in Kenya was going to become an historic landmark, the ambassador replied, "It already is..."


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

Againsheila said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



I will be glad when this issue is over with


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 10, 2011)

Againsheila said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...


Well then you saw a dishonestly edited by CON$ video and swallowed the CON$ervative lie whole!!!! This serves as a teachable moment in how CON$ lie!

No, Obama's grandmother didn't say he was born in Kenya - War Room - Salon.com

In that interview, Sarah Obama does in fact say at one point that she  was there for her grandson's birth. *But that was a mistake, a confusion  in translation.* As soon as a jubilant McRae began to press her for  further details about her grandson being born in Kenya,* the family  realized the mistake and corrected him. And corrected him. And corrected  him.* (The audio is available for download here.)


              No matter, though, because people who believe in a conspiracy theory simply hear what they want to hear. *So some Birther sites have posted transcripts and [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlFc4wCpvSo&feature=related"]YouTube clips[/ame]  that end abruptly with the mistranslation and don't include the  corrections.* McRae, for his part, included the full translation in his  affidavit -- he thinks it's all just part of the conspiracy. "Some few  younger relatives, including [translator Vitalis Akech Ogombe]," McRae  wrote in his court filing, "have obviously been versed to counter such  facts with the common purported information from the American news media  that Obama was born in Hawaii."
              Here's the conversation:
MCRAE: Could I ask her about his actual birthplace? I would like  to see his birthplace when I come to Kenya in December. Was she present  when he was born in Kenya?
     OGOMBE: Yes. She says, yes, she was, she was present when Obama was born.
     MCRAE: When I come in December. I would like to come by the  place, the hospital, where he was born. Could you tell me where he was  born? Was he born in Mombasa?
     OGOMBE: *No, Obama was not born in Mombasa. He was born in America*.
     MCRAE: Whereabouts was he born? I thought he was born in Kenya.
     OGOMBE:* No, he was born in America, not in Mombasa.*
     MCRAE: Do you know where he was born? I thought he was born in Kenya. I was going to go by and see where he was born.
     OGOMBE: Hawaii. Hawaii. Sir,* she says he was born in Hawaii. In  the state of Hawaii,* where his father was also learning, there. *The  state of Hawaii.*​


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



There's only one way to end this debate.
obama's needs to produce the BC


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...


He already did 2 years ago.


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



I watched the whole thing...she only changed her statement when her family told her to...try watching it with someone from Kenya who understands the language.  There was no mistranslation only a bunch of backsteps when they realized what that would do to Obama's candidacy.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 10, 2011)

Againsheila said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...


As I said earlier, CON$ will always lie in the face of the truth.

I love the part where the "bishop" says he will PRAY for Obama, to soften to the grandma, as he is trying to destroy him!!! So typically CON$ervative of him!!!


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



That statement is what's being debate. Has he?


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



BTW, I'm not a con, I'm a moderate.  And the two people from Kenya who watched the video with me voted for Obama even after seeing the video, so they're liberals.  

Some people don't believe the truth even when it's staring them in the face.


----------



## Zona (Apr 10, 2011)

Againsheila said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



So you watched it with someone who is from Kenya?  I serioulsly, seriously doubt this. 

The whole birth announcement in the paper back then is just a non story righty?   

Burfers are hilarious.


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 10, 2011)

Zona said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



Two people from Kenya.  My son was in a group home at the time run by Kenyans.  Leonard and his wife.  Call me a liar all you want, it doesn't change the truth.  Like I said YOU find a Kenyan and watch it with him so you can get a good translation of the video.  Of course, even though he wasn't a "native born American" Leonard and his wife campaigned and voted for him anyway.  I doubt they would have told me the truth if they'd known the law said you had to be a natural born American to be president.  They were rather shocked at that.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


No it isn't, the document released says "This serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding." It's even stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Apr 10, 2011)

Toro said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...



I dont think you read all my post,you think our government is all hokey dory and that its a government of the people and were a free country,that our presidents are for the people as well ,my post was saying that these agents like candycorn,gomer pyle ollie and parrot,ect ect ,the same ones you have allowed to brainwash you on about 9/11,are here to keep people like eots and the other truthers on  here,their attention away from the REAL threat they have planned against us.Thats why Terral wisely stopped talking about 9/11 like I have.

Trump,Obama,Bush,Mccain,their all in on it together but you dont want to know the crisis they have planned against us because your so much brainwashed by the school system and corporate media that you plug your ears and close your eyes when evidence is given to you that doesnt go along with your beliefs.

Trump, Obama and many in the government,have got people like Army Retired,AKA Pale Rider,taking the bait.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Apr 10, 2011)

del said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



what i just said to Toto,applies to you as well.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...


What's missing?
Obama's 'CERTIFICATION of Live Birth' form reveals his Birth Registration was FILED in 1961 but was never fully ACCEPTED by the Hawaiian State Registrar's Office.


----------



## paperview (Apr 10, 2011)

[SIZE=+0]You'd think, with such OBVIOUS  information, ONE, at least ONE of the Secretaries of State, or the  hundreds of electors at the electoral college would have objected, or at  least ONE of the senators or congresspersons would be holding hearings,  or the freakin_ republican governor of Hawaii _would have noticed  such a discrepancy, or the hundreds and hundreds of judges and justices   - all the way up to the Supreme Court, that have been presented such _starling_ evidence, they surely would have caught such an amazing fact that you there, the amazing littlereb, have discovered.

But NO. Notta one.  NO ONE in any capacity of power or authority is as  intelligent and as keyed in on the details as you and your stunningly  capable birther crew.  

It's amazing these people who eat, breath, live and drink the law, and  records, and details of government can even hold a candle or tie  their  shoes, compared to what you there, all by your noggin self, can produce  out of your matchbox basement dwelling as your cheeto's-laden fingers  educate the rest of the world with your awesome mensa-skillz. 
[/SIZE][SIZE=+0]
[/SIZE]


----------



## del (Apr 10, 2011)

9/11 inside job said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Toro said:
> ...



hokey dory


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

paperview said:


> [SIZE=+0]You'd think, with such OBVIOUS  information, ONE, at least ONE of the Secretaries of State, or the  hundreds of electors at the electoral college would have objected, or at  least ONE of the senators or congresspersons would be holding hearings,  or the freakin_ republican governor of Hawaii _would have noticed  such a discrepancy, or the hundreds and hundreds of judges and justices   - all the way up to the Supreme Court, that have been presented such _starling_ evidence, they surely would have caught such an amazing fact that you there, the amazing littlereb, have discovered.
> 
> But NO. Notta one.  NO ONE in any capacity of power or authority is as  intelligent and as keyed in on the details as you and your stunningly  capable birther crew.
> 
> ...





> You'd think, with such OBVIOUS  information, ONE, at least ONE of the Secretaries of State, or the  hundreds of electors at the electoral college would have objected, or at  least ONE of the senators or congresspersons would be holding hearings


There has been two people who have said they looked at the BC. None that you mentioned would have seen the document too notice the discrepancies. So try again.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


It appears the stamp shows it acceptable to the registrar's office by Jun  - 6 2007.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> > [SIZE=+0]You'd think, with such OBVIOUS  information, ONE, at least ONE of the Secretaries of State, or the  hundreds of electors at the electoral college would have objected, or at  least ONE of the senators or congresspersons would be holding hearings,  or the freakin_ republican governor of Hawaii _would have noticed  such a discrepancy, or the hundreds and hundreds of judges and justices   - all the way up to the Supreme Court, that have been presented such _starling_ evidence, they surely would have caught such an amazing fact that you there, the amazing littlereb, have discovered.
> ...


No there have been t media people who have seen it. You have no idea how many government people have seen it. Obviously someone in the registrar's office saw it!!!


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...


. Make it accepted for someone who's place of birth is in question and who has already comminted to running for President. That makes it a fraud thanks, especially since Hawaii is a democratic controlled state.  You are not helping your argument.


----------



## paperview (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> > [SIZE=+0]You'd think, with such OBVIOUS  information, ONE, at least ONE of the Secretaries of State, or the  hundreds of electors at the electoral college would have objected, or at  least ONE of the senators or congresspersons would be holding hearings,  or the freakin_ republican governor of Hawaii _would have noticed  such a discrepancy, or the hundreds and hundreds of judges and justices   - all the way up to the Supreme Court, that have been presented such _starling_ evidence, they surely would have caught such an amazing fact that you there, the amazing littlereb, have discovered.
> ...


Oh, you mean you need special skillz to see the wildly unusual (to you) "African" and "Date Filed by" - I mean, nearly 75 court cases, and nota one can even get them to consider such obviously flawed information.

Go figger.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > paperview said:
> ...



Nope no one but the director of Hawaii's vitals and the person over the records department have said they have seen it, according to the Hawaii state law no one else could look at the BC. Not even the governor.


----------



## The T (Apr 10, 2011)

*Obama may have a criminal past...*


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

paperview said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > paperview said:
> ...



How would you know the discrepancies were there unless you had several document to compare them too? Did the courts have more than obama's BC to make the comparisons? And don't assume they did. give some evidence that they did.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


You should make sure they are prosecuted for that fraud. You and Dump Truck!


----------



## idb (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



I would think that the registrar's office would know better than you if the certificate is legitimate or not.
So, if your position is that you don't believe anyone that testifies that the BC is legitimate, there can be no further discussion.


----------



## paperview (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


You appear to be completely oblious to the 74 court cases brought before the courts, some by the queen bee birther, Oily Titz, and some by Phillip Berg, soem by Jeremy Corsi, and a whole host of characters that make the Flintstones look like serious drama. 

All of them thrown out, dismissed or katpuzted. Thousands of pages presented to magistrates.  Some of them even had the brainstorm you think you're having. 

And still...nota one.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

idb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



and refusal to see the  discrepancies when they have laid out for you too see is even worse.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

paperview said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > paperview said:
> ...



Are the discrepancies there? The reason most were given because they were thrown out of court was  because they according to the courts had no legal standing. It wasn't because the courts view the BC.


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



Depends on when the hospital clerk decided to process his/her paperwork and forward it to the government clerk so they could process his/her batch and make a birth certificate.

I doubt if the Hospital employed a messenger so that as soon as a kid is squirted out it could be like relay race to hand off a form from one person to another to get it to the government clerk as soon as possible.

It all depends on when things are sent, in addition to how.

Sorry the sequence number is not logically a "smoking gun".


>>>>


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > WorldWatcher said:
> ...


You might have a valid point but for the filedates
obama's  was filed Aug 8th the twins were filed Aug 11th


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 10, 2011)

The T said:


> *Obama may have a criminal past...*


You should go Right up to that criminal and make a Citizen's Arrest!!!


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Apr 10, 2011)

Againsheila said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



somehow none of that means anything to the Obama deniars.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Apr 10, 2011)

Againsheila said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



amen to that.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Apr 10, 2011)

The T said:


> *Obama may have a criminal past...*




MAY have a criminal past? the elite who select these candidates and put them into office,make sure the candidate that gets elected is always someone with a criminal past.
must see video below.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw]YouTube - The Obama Deception HQ Full length version[/ame]


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...




Since you repeated yours, I'll repeat mine...

Depends on when the hospital clerk decided to process his/her paperwork and forward to the government clerk so they could process his/her batch and make a birth certificate.

I doubt if the Hospital employed a messenger so that as soon as a kid is squirted out it could be like relay race to hand off a form from one person to another to get it to the government clerk as soon as possible.

It all depends on when things are sent, in addition to how.

>>>>


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > WorldWatcher said:
> ...



If they are filed on a certain date that would mean they were filed with the clerk of courts which would have nothing to do with delivery from the hospital. obama's BC was sitting in vitals three days before the twins.


----------



## GunZawga (Apr 10, 2011)

John McCain was born in Panama. ---------   Fact


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

GunZawga said:


> John McCain was born in Panama. ---------   Fact



At least we know that for a fact


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Apr 10, 2011)

GunZawga said:


> John McCain was born in Panama. ---------   Fact



yeah I heard that somewhere,do you have a link to it?


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


Speaking of the twins, Dump Truck said nobody advertises their children's birth in the papers. So if that is true there shouldn't be a twins' birth announcement in the Hawaiian papers. And if there is, it should be after obama's.

From the Getta Face Lift's phone interview with Dump Truck
Trump: Why Are We Really in Libya? - FoxNews.com
TRUMP: Even if you look at the newspaper, the so-called newspaper article in  Hawaii -- *that was days after he was born! So, that wasn't like when he  was born! And if you really think about a couple of things -- whoever  took a newspaper advertisement *-- now these were poor people. These  aren't rich people. Whoever took a newspaper advertisement to announce  the birth of your baby? Now, I don't think you know of anybody, and I  know of nobody -- and I know poor people and rich people, but* I've never  heard of taking a newspaper ad to advertise that you have a baby. 
*


Dump Truck is a major league  and the laughingstock of the world!!

*





*​


----------



## Toro (Apr 10, 2011)

So what do you think Trump is investigating?  Beach bimbos for his beauty pageants?



> state law does not in fact permit the release of "vital records," including an original "record of live birth" &#8212; even to the individual whose birth it records.
> 
> "It's a Department of Health record and it can't be released to anybody," he said. Nor do state laws have any provision that authorizes such records to be photocopied, Wisch said. If Obama wanted to personally visit the state health department, he would be permitted to inspect his birth record, Wisch said.
> 
> But if he or anybody else wanted a copy of their birth records, they would be told to fill out the appropriate state form and receive back the same computer generated "certification of live birth" form that everybody else gets &#8212; which is exactly what Obama did four years ago.



Ex-Hawaii official denounces 'ludicrous' birther claims - Politics - More politics - msnbc.com

Why is this so hard to understand?


----------



## Toro (Apr 10, 2011)

9/11 inside job said:


> GunZawga said:
> 
> 
> > John McCain was born in Panama. ---------   Fact
> ...



lol

How do we know John McCain _really_ exists?


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



1.  Records don't go to the "clerk of courts", only court cases would go to the judges (or courts) clerk.  Birth certificates, death certificates, executed marriage licenses, and divorce degrees (from a court) would go to a clerical person in the Department of Health (sometimes called vital records).

2. Which goes back to my previous post about Human V. Computer and Parallel v. Serial processing.


>>>>


----------



## Sallow (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> The T said:
> 
> 
> > *Obama may have a criminal past...*
> ...



This didn't seem to bother anyone voting for Bush. The first President with an arrest record and conviction of a crime in the White House.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > WorldWatcher said:
> ...





> Records don't go to the "clerk of courts", only court cases would go to the judges (or courts) clerk.


Excuse me it's changed here in North Carolina it use to be that if you wanted any kind of records you would go to the clerk of courts.



> Birth certificates, death certificates, executed marriage licenses, and divorce degrees (from a court) would go to a clerical person in the Department of Health (sometimes called vital records). 2. Which goes back to my previous post about Human V. Computer and Parallel v. Serial processing.



The twin's BC has a date stamp with signature file with the department of vitals dated aug 11th meaning it was at vitals on that date obama has a date stamped three days beore thiers. Which does not bring you back to your point.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> GunZawga said:
> 
> 
> > John McCain was born in Panama. ---------   Fact
> ...


Then why did McCain need a fake birth certificate??? Typewriters don't have fonts so how could the typewritten numerals be so different????


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 10, 2011)

paperview said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > paperview said:
> ...



They weren't thrown out.  they all made it to the supreme court and the supreme court refused to hear them, not the same as throwing them out.


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...




Sure it does.  Do you think the clerks are sitting around with nothing to do but want for a birth certificate filing?  No, pre-computer processing, clerks worked in batches.  It is totally reasonable that birth records were delivered and processed out of order of when they were received.  Some records came in, stamped as received and were put in the appropriate box to be processed.  The sequence number (which is what this sub-discussion started with) would be determined when the HUMAN clerk processed the paperwork, not the date the paperwork was stamped as received.



>>>>


----------



## JiggsCasey (Apr 10, 2011)

xsited1 said:


> The liberals are asking us to give Obama time. We agree . . . and think 25 to life would be appropriate.
> --Jay Leno
> 
> America needs Obama-care like Nancy Pelosi needs a Halloween mask.
> ...



Telling indeed that you wouldn't post a link to this crap. 

Leno never said that.


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 10, 2011)

(Apr. 11, 2010) &#8212; A member of the Kenyan Parliament has stated in a meeting of that body on March 25, 2010 that Barack Obama was born in Kenya.

The statement, which discussed the concept of &#8220;devolution,&#8221; or ethnic inclusion, reads:  &#8220;If America was living in a situation where they feared ethnicity and did not see itself as a multiparty state or nation,* how could a young man born here in Kenya, who is not even a native American*, become the President of America?&#8221;  A screenshot of page 31 of the Minutes where the statement appears is below.

Kenyan Parliament claims Obama born in Kenya | The Post & Email


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > WorldWatcher said:
> ...



Three days difference? obamas BC sitting at vital for three days? Hawaii wasn't that populated and children were not being born at a high rate that would make a back log of paper work. Plus let's not forget aboiut that signature stating that the twins BC was on file.

Here is one of the twins BC




You will see tweo date with signatures Aug the 7th was the date it was filed
Aug 11th was the date it was accepted by the Registrar General with his signature


----------



## idb (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


You are now just refusing to accept a reasonable argument.
It's entirely plausible that the birth certificates would be processed out of sequence.
It was a human process.
How do you know that the people that processed the certificates were only doing that?
They might have had a backlog of death notices, cleaning invoices, public complaints to deal with as well.


----------



## idb (Apr 10, 2011)

Just as an aside...why was it, when Ronald Reagan was born Feb 6, 1911 his birth certificate wasn't filed until 14 August 1941?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

idb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > WorldWatcher said:
> ...





> You are now just refusing to accept a reasonable argument


Likewise 


> It's entirely plausible that the birth certificates would be processed out of sequence.
> It was a human process.



Sure it was.




> How do you know that the people that processed the certificates were only doing that?
> They might have had a backlog of death notices, cleaning invoices, public complaints to deal with as well



Right sure

So what was the date obama's BC was accepted by the registarr? oh thats right it wasn't


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> *Three days difference?* obamas BC sitting at vital for three days? *Hawaii wasn't that populated and children were not being born at a high rate that would make a back log of paper work. *


But it was a weekend! Obama born on Friday is at the bottom of the pile sitting over the weekend, the twins born on Monday end up at the top of the pile. Must be a conspiracy!


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 10, 2011)

idb said:


> Just as an aside...why was it, when Ronald Reagan was born Feb 6, 1911 his birth certificate wasn't filed until 14 August 1941?


Fake BC?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > *Three days difference?* obamas BC sitting at vital for three days? *Hawaii wasn't that populated and children were not being born at a high rate that would make a back log of paper work. *
> ...


the 4th was on a friday so the weekend is viable
Year 1961 Calendar &#8211; United States

So all thats left is to find out when obama's BC was accepted by the registarr?


----------



## WorldWatcher (Apr 10, 2011)

idb said:


> You are now just refusing to accept a reasonable argument.
> It's entirely plausible that the birth certificates would be processed out of sequence.
> It was a human process.
> How do you know that the people that processed the certificates were only doing that?
> They might have had a backlog of death notices, cleaning invoices, public complaints to deal with as well.




Some people are so entrenched that it must be a conspiracy, common sense goes out the window.

My kids were born before the requirement to issue SSN at birth.  When they were a couple of years old we were back in the States on leave and so we stopped in at the local SSA office and filed their paperwork.

Two kids, filed the same day, and submitted together.  Guess what?


.......................................... There numbers are out of sequence with numbers issued in between.


Go figure.


>>>>


----------



## Mad Scientist (Apr 10, 2011)

idb said:


> Just as an aside...why was it, when Ronald Reagan was born Feb 6, 1911 his birth certificate wasn't filed until 14 August 1941?


My *guess* is that he was born at home and didn't have any need for one until he saw that war was imminent?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > You are now just refusing to accept a reasonable argument.
> ...



Why am I not surprise you would say that? Your kids numbers are out of sequence. Fine your talking about SSN dealing with a lot more people total U.S. population compared to one state Hawaii and three babies, and a birth certificate in the year 1961. Got it.


----------



## idb (Apr 10, 2011)

Mad Scientist said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > Just as an aside...why was it, when Ronald Reagan was born Feb 6, 1911 his birth certificate wasn't filed until 14 August 1941?
> ...



My guess is that he thought about running for president in 30 years or so and was worried there would be a huge debate about his eligibility if he didn't get a BC sorted.


----------



## idb (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



You've just been thrashed I think bigrednec.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

idb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > WorldWatcher said:
> ...



Right sure ok uhun. Yet I'm still waiting for that to happen. My facts against te word of an unknown poster who cannot varify who he says he is what he does.


----------



## idb (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Just take a step back for a second...you're claiming a conspiracy by...let's see...Obama's family, Obama himself, The Whitehouse, the Supreme Court, the Hawaiian Dept of Health, the hospital he claims to have been born in, the Director of Health for Hawaii, Factcheck.org and Abraham Lincoln...and any more you might care to name.

And you're suggesting that is a more likely scenario than the application for his birth certificate sitting in a clerk's in-tray for a few days and his Dad listing his race as 'African'?!!!

Take a step back and try a little bit of perspective.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

idb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



No I am not claiming a conspiracy.
What I am saying is that unless they those mention had more than obama's BC to look at no one would notice the discrepancies on the document. How would anyone know if they did not have something to comapre it with and know or think to look at that specific discrepancy?


----------



## candycorn (Apr 10, 2011)

WorldWatcher said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > You are now just refusing to accept a reasonable argument.
> ...



No way Obama isn't on the ballot in 2012.
Hawaii has certified.  FF&C clause means he's ok in all 50 states.
Total waste of time to worry about this much less believe it's true that he was born in Kenya.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

candycorn said:


> WorldWatcher said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



it's happen before Lincoln wasn't on the ballot in some states in 1860


----------



## paperview (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > WorldWatcher said:
> ...


And Lincoln *still* won, without the help of those fucking racist southerns!


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

paperview said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



What we have here is a blatant disregard for history.^^^^^^^
 The north was just as racist as the south was. Lincoln himself was a racist.


----------



## Zona (Apr 10, 2011)

Trump: I Have Investigators in Hawaii...'They Cannot Believe What They're Finding' 

By the way, how did this turn out?  

Just asking.  Zero proof, zero evidence and yet this thread goes on and on and yup, I just contributed.


----------



## Zona (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Didnt he have something to do with ending slavery....


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

Zona said:


> Trump: I Have Investigators in Hawaii...'They Cannot Believe What They're Finding'
> 
> By the way, how did this turn out?
> 
> Just asking.  Zero proof, zero evidence and yet this thread goes on and on and yup, I just contributed.



Kind'a silly of you to complain about this thread going on and on and you just  posted to it.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 10, 2011)

Zona said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > paperview said:
> ...



Yet he was a racist. The war didn't start out to free anyone, Lincoln used the issue of slavery to keep England and france out of  the war. And even the emancipation proclamation didn't free any slaves in areas controlled by the north.


----------



## Zona (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> > Trump: I Have Investigators in Hawaii...'They Cannot Believe What They're Finding'
> ...


----------



## Zona (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



So this whole silly slavery thing would have ended if there was someone from the south in the white house?


----------



## paperview (Apr 10, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


The North had racists, the south was just fond of keeping their black human beings as property, to be bought as sold as farm animals, and they fought a war to try and keep it that way.

And I'd be willing to bet I have more knowledge of history in my little finger than you do in your whole bubble-head.


----------



## del (Apr 10, 2011)

Toro said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > GunZawga said:
> ...



i saw him hanging at the 7-11 with elvis

he exists


----------



## emilynghiem (Apr 11, 2011)

California Girl said:


> His citizenship is not the issue. The issue would be that his presidency would then be illegal. Therefore, every law, every order, every piece of paper signed by Obama would be invalid. If he obtained the office dishonestly, he would not only have to leave office, but everything he's done over the past two years would have to be scrapped. You do see that, right?
> 
> What the voters think is immaterial. If he was ineligible to run, then everything he's done is also.



If you believe that all laws and social contracts are made by "consent of the governed," then technically by the spirit of the laws, anything that passed which does not carry the consent of the public is not sustainable; and can or will be changed by voting officials out of office and/or p passing corrective legislation or nullifying the opposed items.

In the meantime, whether people respect the laws and process depends on what people are willing to consent to. Instead of approving or rejecting whole laws, the specific objections may need to be addressed and corrected so laws do reflect informed consent.

Otherwise, imposing laws without consent or equal representation may be argued as voiding the contract, where laws that establish one set of beliefs over others violates equal protection of opposing beliefs, since Constitutional standards require equal protection for all people without discrimination. People can either enforce higher standards of law and governance respecting consent of the governed, or can consent to lowering the standards to majority rule that allows imposing biased policies of the majority vote over the minority.

Where there is public pressure and an organized movement to represent interests that have been overridden by politics, then the proper legislative changes can be pursued to correct any such misrepresentation or underrepresentation. If we respected consent of the governed to begin with, the process of working out differences would be required BEFORE passing laws or issuing judicial rulings, instead of battling back and forth after the fact.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 11, 2011)

Zona said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Zona said:
> ...



President Andrew Johnson was from North Carolina, go figure


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 11, 2011)

paperview said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > paperview said:
> ...



I'm a 19th century American living Historian I have to know the facts, or I never could do any first person presentation.



> The North had racists, the south was just fond of keeping their black human beings as property, to be bought as sold as farm animals, and they fought a war to try and keep it that way.



Most of the north were racist. the north had the Abolitionist and slaves. The south poor white were lower class than any slave in the south. If the north was so in love with slaves and was wanting to free them, why did New York have anti war riots in 1863?


----------



## paperview (Apr 11, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


What a bizarre statement.  The abolition of slavery was a foregone conclusion by the time Johnson took hold of the reins.


----------



## paperview (Apr 11, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> I'm a 19th century American living Historian I have to know the facts, or I never could do any first person presentation.



Amusement park presentations don't count.



> Most of the north were racist. the north had the Abolitionist and slaves. The south poor white were lower class than any slave in the south. If the north was so in love with slaves and was wanting to free them, why did New York have anti war riots in 1863?



If  "poor whites" were trotted up in chains on auction blocks, sold as farm animals to the highest bidder, prohibited any constitutional rights, had their children torn from them and sold, denied even their own names, deemed illegal to educate them, prohibited from even legally marrying, and denied citizenship...then you may have a point.  Until then, your overwhelming ignorance just continues to flood this forum.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 11, 2011)

paperview said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a 19th century American living Historian I have to know the facts, or I never could do any first person presentation.
> ...




poor whtes had to provide for themseleves within a system that had free labor. You can now connect the dots.




> Amusement park presentations don't count.



So you're calling the NPS  an Amusement park?


----------



## paperview (Apr 11, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


Connect the dots to this.












Your comparisons are ludicrous.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 11, 2011)

paperview said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > paperview said:
> ...


So is your's
  NORTH CAROLINA.Act of 1798, section 3 Whereas, by Act of another Assembly, passed in the year 1774, the killing of a slave, however wanton, cruel, and deliberate, is only punishable, in the first instance, by imprisonment, and paying the value thereof to the OWNER, which distinction of criminality between the murder of a white person and one who is equally a human creature, but merely of a different complexion, is disgraceful to humanity, and degrading in the highest degree to the laws and principles of a free, Christian, and enlightened country; Be it enacted, &c., that if any person hereafter be guilty of maliciously killing a slave, such offender shall, on the first conviction thereof, be adjudged guilty of murder, and shall suffer the same punishment as if he had killed a free man: Provided always, this act shall not extend to any person killing a slave outlawed by virtue of any Act of Assembly of this State, or to any slave in the act of resistance to his lawful owner or master, or to any slave DYING UNDER MODERATE CORRECTION! (Hayward's Manual, 530.)

Goodell, The American Slave Code. Pt. I, Ch. XIV.

Southerns believed in the bible
Slavery in the OT


----------



## paperview (Apr 11, 2011)

Holy crap.  Now we've got "bigreb" here justifying slavery cause it's biblical.

Just like them southern preachers did.  

Whoa boy.  When you go, you go the fully Monte-negro, doncha, reb?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 11, 2011)

paperview said:


> Holy crap.  Now we've got "bigreb" here justifying slavery cause it's biblical.
> 
> Just like them southern preachers did.
> 
> Whoa boy.  When you go, you go the fully Monte-negro, doncha, reb?



Wasn't justifing it, just showg you they had laws to protect abuse. Were slaves abused some were. Did the author who wrote uncle toms cabin come south before she wrote her book of propaganda lies? No she didn't the image you used is just like that book written by herreat breecher stowe. full of shit and half truths


----------



## paperview (Apr 11, 2011)

Wow.  Just wow.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 11, 2011)

paperview said:


> Wow.  Just wow.



I can't help your to lazy to do your own research.


----------



## candycorn (Apr 11, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> > Holy crap.  Now we've got "bigreb" here justifying slavery cause it's biblical.
> ...



Be careful jumping that shark.

Nothing to learn from your crazy ass.

ignore
<plink>


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 11, 2011)

candycorn said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > paperview said:
> ...



I can support anything I say with factual sources. Care to try again?


----------



## candycorn (Apr 13, 2011)

Glad everybody stopped giving that dumbass the time of day; way to scuttle your own thread dipshit.


----------

