# Home security



## Wiseacre

We've had 3 burglaries in our neighborhood recently, and the wife wants to get a couple of weapons for protection. We do have security lights on the outside and an alarm system should someone break in, but if worst comes to worst then I'm gonna do what I gotta do. 

Neither of us is as strong or as young as we used to be, so I'm thinking a shotgun or a .45 is probably too much kick for me.  Likely the noise will scare the crap out of any intruders, but if not I gotta be able to get off multiple rounds with some degree of accuracy in a relatively short amount of time. Likewise thinking against a revolver, what do I do after my 6 shots are gone? Maybe I should mention I got no experience with guns, and neither does the wife. So I need something easy, point and fire. 

So, I'm thinking .22LR hollow point for her, something small and lightweight. She's had rheumatoid arthitis for most of her adult life, doubt if she could handle anything much bigger.   She's one handed too, had a couple of strokes a few years back and as a consequence her right hand/arm are almost useless.  No telling where that 2nd bullet might go if you get my concern.

For me I'm thinking maybe a .380 or a .40 caliber pistol with around a 10 round clip. With an extra clip should I need it. Chances are it'll all be over one way or another without reloading with both me and her blasting away, unless maybe the intruders and doped up to the gills or bat shit crazy.

Questions: Is the kick from a .380 or .40 that much less than a .45? I really think if I have to start shooting then I need to be able to quickly continue firing.

Any consensus about buying a gun at a gun show vs sporting goods store?

How often should a weapon be cleaned?

How often do clips wear out? Does the spring need to be replaced every so often?


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## earlycuyler

Wiseacre said:


> We've had 3 burglaries in our neighborhood recently, and the wife wants to get a couple of weapons for protection. We do have security lights on the outside and an alarm system should someone break in, but if worst comes to worst then I'm gonna do what I gotta do.
> 
> Neither of us is as strong or as young as we used to be, so I'm thinking a shotgun or a .45 is probably too much kick for me.  Likely the noise will scare the crap out of any intruders, but if not I gotta be able to get off multiple rounds with some degree of accuracy in a relatively short amount of time. Likewise thinking against a revolver, what do I do after my 6 shots are gone? Maybe I should mention I got no experience with guns, and neither does the wife. So I need something easy, point and fire.
> 
> So, I'm thinking .22LR hollow point for her, something small and lightweight. She's had rheumatoid arthitis for most of her adult life, doubt if she could handle anything much bigger.   She's one handed too, had a couple of strokes a few years back and as a consequence her right hand/arm are almost useless.  No telling where that 2nd bullet might go if you get my concern.
> 
> For me I'm thinking maybe a .380 or a .40 caliber pistol with around a 10 round clip. With an extra clip should I need it. Chances are it'll all be over one way or another without reloading with both me and her blasting away, unless maybe the intruders and doped up to the gills or bat shit crazy.
> 
> Questions: Is the kick from a .380 or .40 that much less than a .45? I really think if I have to start shooting then I need to be able to quickly continue firing.
> 
> Any consensus about buying a gun at a gun show vs sporting goods store?
> 
> How often should a weapon be cleaned?
> 
> How often do clips wear out? Does the spring need to be replaced every so often?



You cant go wrong with the shot gun. .380 is not so bad, and I cant say for the .40 . The shotgun is more handy though and more fun to shoot, and if it comes to shooting bad guys, it will do it better then any practical handgun will. You may also look into an NRA safety coarse to, or something like it. As for cleaning, you just follow the manufacturers instructions.


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## yidnar

Wiseacre said:


> We've had 3 burglaries in our neighborhood recently, and the wife wants to get a couple of weapons for protection. We do have security lights on the outside and an alarm system should someone break in, but if worst comes to worst then I'm gonna do what I gotta do.
> 
> Neither of us is as strong or as young as we used to be, so I'm thinking a shotgun or a .45 is probably too much kick for me.  Likely the noise will scare the crap out of any intruders, but if not I gotta be able to get off multiple rounds with some degree of accuracy in a relatively short amount of time. Likewise thinking against a revolver, what do I do after my 6 shots are gone? Maybe I should mention I got no experience with guns, and neither does the wife. So I need something easy, point and fire.
> 
> So, I'm thinking .22LR hollow point for her, something small and lightweight. She's had rheumatoid arthitis for most of her adult life, doubt if she could handle anything much bigger.   She's one handed too, had a couple of strokes a few years back and as a consequence her right hand/arm are almost useless.  No telling where that 2nd bullet might go if you get my concern.
> 
> For me I'm thinking maybe a .380 or a .40 caliber pistol with around a 10 round clip. With an extra clip should I need it. Chances are it'll all be over one way or another without reloading with both me and her blasting away, unless maybe the intruders and doped up to the gills or bat shit crazy.
> 
> Questions: Is the kick from a .380 or .40 that much less than a .45? I really think if I have to start shooting then I need to be able to quickly continue firing.
> 
> Any consensus about buying a gun at a gun show vs sporting goods store?
> 
> How often should a weapon be cleaned?
> 
> How often do clips wear out? Does the spring need to be replaced every so often?


an AR 15 has virtually no recoil and is very accurate with a lot of knockdown power .it is light and easy to handle .


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## Spoonman

Wiseacre said:


> We've had 3 burglaries in our neighborhood recently, and the wife wants to get a couple of weapons for protection. We do have security lights on the outside and an alarm system should someone break in, but if worst comes to worst then I'm gonna do what I gotta do.
> 
> Neither of us is as strong or as young as we used to be, so I'm thinking a shotgun or a .45 is probably too much kick for me.  Likely the noise will scare the crap out of any intruders, but if not I gotta be able to get off multiple rounds with some degree of accuracy in a relatively short amount of time. Likewise thinking against a revolver, what do I do after my 6 shots are gone? Maybe I should mention I got no experience with guns, and neither does the wife. So I need something easy, point and fire.
> 
> So, I'm thinking .22LR hollow point for her, something small and lightweight. She's had rheumatoid arthitis for most of her adult life, doubt if she could handle anything much bigger.   She's one handed too, had a couple of strokes a few years back and as a consequence her right hand/arm are almost useless.  No telling where that 2nd bullet might go if you get my concern.
> 
> For me I'm thinking maybe a .380 or a .40 caliber pistol with around a 10 round clip. With an extra clip should I need it. Chances are it'll all be over one way or another without reloading with both me and her blasting away, unless maybe the intruders and doped up to the gills or bat shit crazy.
> 
> Questions: Is the kick from a .380 or .40 that much less than a .45? I really think if I have to start shooting then I need to be able to quickly continue firing.
> 
> Any consensus about buying a gun at a gun show vs sporting goods store?
> 
> How often should a weapon be cleaned?
> 
> How often do clips wear out? Does the spring need to be replaced every so often?



you can get shotshells with lighter loads.  it really reduces the kick.  my son was shooting skeet with them when he was 10.  

the kick from a .380 is a lot less.  a lot.   make sure the gun feels good in your hand.  also if you have the chance try the gun out before hand.  because it really is all about the feel and how it fits in your hand.   if the grip is a little funky for you, while the kick might not be bad, you could end up with a wicked buzz in your hand.  look at a baretta M9.  personally i love the feel and function of that gun. very limited kick as well, 9 mm.  

I clean my guns after every use.  with a pistol, it's real easy.  5 minutes you are done. 

don't worry about wearing out a magazine.  i've put tens of thousands of rounds through them.  they are stiff to load at first, but leave a magazine loaded and the springs loosen up quickly. 

where you buy it all depends where you live and what the laws are like.  a gun store is usually a little more helpful. plus you can always go back ot see them if their is an issue.  with a show, you have ot be able to find the guy. so for a first time purchaser I'd say the gun shop. 

if its for home defense, look for frangible, hollow point or even wadcutters if you gun can shoot a non jacketed bullet.  they are less likely to exit who you shoot and travel through a wall and hit who might be in hte next room by accident.


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## Missourian

Try a 20 gauge.

The spread is the same as a 12,  just less pellets.

Read some Chuck Hawks and Massad Ayoob.

Guns for Home Defense

Personal Defense Solutions - Massad Ayoob

Consider the 20-gauge shotgun by Massad Ayoob

The Self-Defense Pistol

Handguns for Home Defense

Personally,  I have a 9mm m1911 clone and three .22lr's,  a Ruger Standard,  a Taurus model 94 Ultralite 9 and a single action Heritage Rough Rider.

IMHO,  a 9mm is the way to go.  Cheap ammo means plenty of range time.

I carry the Taurus .22lr,  but if I had it to do over again,  I'd get the .22 Win Mag. Taurus Model 941 Ultralite 8 with the 4 inch barrel.


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## Wiseacre

Many thanks to everybody.   Went to the nearby Sports Academy  and bought some weapons before the wife changed her mind.   She went in with me and decided she liked the Heritage Rough Rider .22, which shoots both .22LR and .22 Mag, looks like the guns you see in the old westerns.   I got a Taurus Model 85 .38 Special.   These revolvers don't carry that many bullets like the semis do, but maybe down the road we'll try a couple of those.   I'm thinking with both of us shooting, any bad guys are not likely to hang around.

Seriously, we'll both go to some classes since we ain't very familiar with guns, and get to a firing range to see how they work out for us.   They won't jam, are easy to clean, and we won't need 'em outside of 20 feet.


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## alan1

Wiseacre said:


> Many thanks to everybody.   Went to the nearby Sports Academy  and bought some weapons before the wife changed her mind.   She went in with me and decided she liked the Heritage Rough Rider .22, which shoots both .22LR and .22 Mag, looks like the guns you see in the old westerns.   I got a Taurus Model 85 .38 Special.   These revolvers don't carry that many bullets like the semis do, but maybe down the road we'll try a couple of those.   I'm thinking with both of us shooting, any bad guys are not likely to hang around.
> 
> Seriously, we'll both go to some classes since we ain't very familiar with guns, and get to a firing range to see how they work out for us.   They won't jam, are easy to clean, and we won't need 'em outside of 20 feet.



Did you look at the Taurus Judge series?
Shoots both a 410 shotshell and a .45 cal.  That might be a bit too much for your wife, but I like the idea of the first couple shots being a shotgun shell for giving an intruder a quick blast, then a .45 to completely stop him if he doesn't get the hint.


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## bigrebnc1775

Wiseacre said:


> We've had 3 burglaries in our neighborhood recently, and the wife wants to get a couple of weapons for protection. We do have security lights on the outside and an alarm system should someone break in, but if worst comes to worst then I'm gonna do what I gotta do.
> 
> Neither of us is as strong or as young as we used to be, so I'm thinking a shotgun or a .45 is probably too much kick for me.  Likely the noise will scare the crap out of any intruders, but if not I gotta be able to get off multiple rounds with some degree of accuracy in a relatively short amount of time. Likewise thinking against a revolver, what do I do after my 6 shots are gone? Maybe I should mention I got no experience with guns, and neither does the wife. So I need something easy, point and fire.
> 
> So, I'm thinking .22LR hollow point for her, something small and lightweight. She's had rheumatoid arthitis for most of her adult life, doubt if she could handle anything much bigger.   She's one handed too, had a couple of strokes a few years back and as a consequence her right hand/arm are almost useless.  No telling where that 2nd bullet might go if you get my concern.
> 
> For me I'm thinking maybe a .380 or a .40 caliber pistol with around a 10 round clip. With an extra clip should I need it. Chances are it'll all be over one way or another without reloading with both me and her blasting away, unless maybe the intruders and doped up to the gills or bat shit crazy.
> 
> Questions: Is the kick from a .380 or .40 that much less than a .45? I really think if I have to start shooting then I need to be able to quickly continue firing.
> 
> Any consensus about buying a gun at a gun show vs sporting goods store?
> 
> How often should a weapon be cleaned?
> 
> How often do clips wear out? Does the spring need to be replaced every so often?



If you don't have experience with a semi automatic pistol I would suggest a revolver 357 mag would do the task needed too do. You can shoot 357 mag and 38 special with the same gun.


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## Missourian

Wiseacre said:


> Many thanks to everybody.   Went to the nearby Sports Academy  and bought some weapons before the wife changed her mind.   She went in with me and decided she liked the Heritage Rough Rider .22, which shoots both .22LR and .22 Mag, looks like the guns you see in the old westerns.   I got a Taurus Model 85 .38 Special.   These revolvers don't carry that many bullets like the semis do, but maybe down the road we'll try a couple of those.   I'm thinking with both of us shooting, any bad guys are not likely to hang around.
> 
> Seriously, we'll both go to some classes since we ain't very familiar with guns, and get to a firing range to see how they work out for us.   They won't jam, are easy to clean, and we won't need 'em outside of 20 feet.



Good choices...I've had my Heritage RR many years and many rounds.  

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-outdoors/68820-my-first-single-action-six-shooter.html


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## Wiseacre

alan1 said:


> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> Many thanks to everybody.   Went to the nearby Sports Academy  and bought some weapons before the wife changed her mind.   She went in with me and decided she liked the Heritage Rough Rider .22, which shoots both .22LR and .22 Mag, looks like the guns you see in the old westerns.   I got a Taurus Model 85 .38 Special.   These revolvers don't carry that many bullets like the semis do, but maybe down the road we'll try a couple of those.   I'm thinking with both of us shooting, any bad guys are not likely to hang around.
> 
> Seriously, we'll both go to some classes since we ain't very familiar with guns, and get to a firing range to see how they work out for us.   They won't jam, are easy to clean, and we won't need 'em outside of 20 feet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you look at the Taurus Judge series?
> Shoots both a 410 shotshell and a .45 cal.  That might be a bit too much for your wife, but I like the idea of the first couple shots being a shotgun shell for giving an intruder a quick blast, then a .45 to completely stop him if he doesn't get the hint.
Click to expand...



Sounds good, I might look into that for the next one.   I think I might be getting the bug to buy a few more depending on the budget and how things go.   That .410, is it good for snakes?   Got a few of 'em here in south Texas.


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## bigrebnc1775

Just thought about this Rossi has a lever action 357 mag rifle that holds 12 in the feed tube and 1 in the chamber and their 357 mag. revolvers are very well made. You'll have a rifle and a hand gun that uses the same ammo.

Rossi .357 model 92 Octagonal 24 inch Barrel, Color Casehardened Recei for sale (914704419)

Rossi Double Action Revolver 462 (R46202), 357 Magnum, 2 in, Black Rub for sale (974894175)


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## syrenn

Wiseacre said:


> Many thanks to everybody.   Went to the nearby Sports Academy  and bought some weapons before the wife changed her mind.   She went in with me and decided she liked the Heritage Rough Rider .22, which shoots both .22LR and .22 Mag, looks like the guns you see in the old westerns.   I got a Taurus Model 85 .38 Special.   These revolvers don't carry that many bullets like the semis do, but maybe down the road we'll try a couple of those.   I'm thinking with both of us shooting, any bad guys are not likely to hang around.
> 
> Seriously, we'll both go to some classes since we ain't very familiar with guns, and get to a firing range to see how they work out for us.   They won't jam, are easy to clean, and we won't need 'em outside of 20 feet.



now you have to promise to get some training and practice time in. 

Ever think about a getting big dog?


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## bigrebnc1775

Just one thing I ask what ever firearm you decide to get take a conceal carry firearms training course, even if you don't want too get a conceal carry permit. The training will help you in the long run for home defense.


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## bigrebnc1775

syrenn said:


> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> Many thanks to everybody.   Went to the nearby Sports Academy  and bought some weapons before the wife changed her mind.   She went in with me and decided she liked the Heritage Rough Rider .22, which shoots both .22LR and .22 Mag, looks like the guns you see in the old westerns.   I got a Taurus Model 85 .38 Special.   These revolvers don't carry that many bullets like the semis do, but maybe down the road we'll try a couple of those.   I'm thinking with both of us shooting, any bad guys are not likely to hang around.
> 
> Seriously, we'll both go to some classes since we ain't very familiar with guns, and get to a firing range to see how they work out for us.   They won't jam, are easy to clean, and we won't need 'em outside of 20 feet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now you have to promise to get some training and practice time in.
> 
> Ever think about a getting big dog?
Click to expand...


I second that.


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## hortysir

Wiseacre said:


> We've had 3 burglaries in our neighborhood recently, and the wife wants to get a couple of weapons for protection. We do have security lights on the outside and an alarm system should someone break in, but if worst comes to worst then I'm gonna do what I gotta do.
> 
> Neither of us is as strong or as young as we used to be, so I'm thinking a shotgun or a .45 is probably too much kick for me.  Likely the noise will scare the crap out of any intruders, but if not I gotta be able to get off multiple rounds with some degree of accuracy in a relatively short amount of time. Likewise thinking against a revolver, what do I do after my 6 shots are gone? Maybe I should mention I got no experience with guns, and neither does the wife. So I need something easy, point and fire.
> 
> So, I'm thinking .22LR hollow point for her, something small and lightweight. She's had rheumatoid arthitis for most of her adult life, doubt if she could handle anything much bigger.   She's one handed too, had a couple of strokes a few years back and as a consequence her right hand/arm are almost useless.  No telling where that 2nd bullet might go if you get my concern.
> 
> For me I'm thinking maybe a .380 or a .40 caliber pistol with around a 10 round clip. With an extra clip should I need it. Chances are it'll all be over one way or another without reloading with both me and her blasting away, unless maybe the intruders and doped up to the gills or bat shit crazy.
> 
> Questions: Is the kick from a .380 or .40 that much less than a .45? I really think if I have to start shooting then I need to be able to quickly continue firing.
> 
> Any consensus about buying a gun at a gun show vs sporting goods store?
> 
> How often should a weapon be cleaned?
> 
> How often do clips wear out? Does the spring need to be replaced every so often?



Taught my wife how to handle my 380. She loved it so much I had to go buy her one like mine. (definitely gets my vote for home defense)

She had been left at home with my old 22 Marlin rifle, but that's just too long and cumbersome to use in an emergency.

I like my shotgun too!
You wouldn't even have to shoot it.
The mere sound of pumping a shell into the chamber is enough to make any intruder shit their pants!!



Happy shopping!


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## bigrebnc1775

Missourian said:


> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> Many thanks to everybody.   Went to the nearby Sports Academy  and bought some weapons before the wife changed her mind.   She went in with me and decided she liked the Heritage Rough Rider .22, which shoots both .22LR and .22 Mag, looks like the guns you see in the old westerns.   I got a Taurus Model 85 .38 Special.   These revolvers don't carry that many bullets like the semis do, but maybe down the road we'll try a couple of those.   I'm thinking with both of us shooting, any bad guys are not likely to hang around.
> 
> Seriously, we'll both go to some classes since we ain't very familiar with guns, and get to a firing range to see how they work out for us.   They won't jam, are easy to clean, and we won't need 'em outside of 20 feet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good choices...I've had my Heritage RR many years and many rounds.
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-outdoors/68820-my-first-single-action-six-shooter.html
Click to expand...


You can't go wrong with a revolver


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## rightwinger

Personally, I prefer a big stick with a nail in it


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## hortysir

rightwinger said:


> Personally, I prefer a big stick with a nail in it



I heard that about you



freak


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## bigrebnc1775

rightwinger said:


> Personally, I prefer a big stick with a nail in it



That's your choice


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## syrenn

one more thing to think about..... a hand gun you need to aim and hit your target....

a shotgun....its point a shoot.


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## bigrebnc1775

syrenn said:


> one more thing to think about..... a hand gun you need to aim and hit your target....
> 
> a shotgun....its point a shoot.



That's a misconception


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## bigrebnc1775

Found what I was looking for

You dont have to aim it, just point at the direction of the bad guy then fire! You cant miss with a shotgun! This misconception, which is probably being perpetuated by Hollywood, could not be more wrong. Sadly, it may be the primary basis for many novices to select a shotgun to protect the house.

The truth is, a typical 12 gauge 00 buckshot load will likely create no more than a palm sized pattern when fired at a target 7 meters away (typical home engagement distance).  Thats 8 or 9 .32 caliber shots in a spread of no more than six inches across. Factor-in low light, rapid movement, hefty recoil as well as adrenaline induced tremors and you will see how it is quite easy to miss!

Read further
The shotgun approach | Home Defense Journal


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## hortysir

Instead of 00 Buck, use a scatter-shot

problem solved


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## bigrebnc1775

hortysir said:


> Instead of 00 Buck, use a scatter-shot
> 
> problem solved



That won't kill here's a good set up for a shotgun that I use
First shell is bird shot to make them rethink if that doesnm't change their mind 
second shell is 00 buck shot if that doesn't stop them 
Third shot slug


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## syrenn

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Found what I was looking for
> 
> You dont have to aim it, just point at the direction of the bad guy then fire! You cant miss with a shotgun! This misconception, which is probably being perpetuated by Hollywood, could not be more wrong. Sadly, it may be the primary basis for many novices to select a shotgun to protect the house.
> 
> The truth is, a typical 12 gauge 00 buckshot load will likely create no more than a palm sized pattern when fired at a target 7 meters away (typical home engagement distance).  Thats 8 or 9 .32 caliber shots in a spread of no more than six inches across. Factor-in low light, rapid movement, hefty recoil as well as adrenaline induced tremors and you will see how it is quite easy to miss!
> 
> Read further
> The shotgun approach | Home Defense Journal




a palm size target...... is a bigger target then a single bullet. 


For someone in this case who is not accustom to guns....... i would think is only going to get off one good shot. 


if they are going miss with a shotgun.... they will miss with a hand gun.


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## hortysir

bigrebnc1775 said:


> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> 
> Instead of 00 Buck, use a scatter-shot
> 
> problem solved
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That won't kill here's a good set up for a shotgun that I use
> First shell is bird shot to make them rethink if that doesnm't change their mind
> second shell is 00 buck shot if that doesn't stop them
> Third shot slug
Click to expand...


Might not kill...

But imagine a shotgun blast.....you're hit.
Now, whether it's rock salt or buckshot, you're gonna think your dead! lol

I don't see any intruder returning fire in that situation


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## bigrebnc1775

syrenn said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Found what I was looking for
> 
> You dont have to aim it, just point at the direction of the bad guy then fire! You cant miss with a shotgun! This misconception, which is probably being perpetuated by Hollywood, could not be more wrong. Sadly, it may be the primary basis for many novices to select a shotgun to protect the house.
> 
> The truth is, a typical 12 gauge 00 buckshot load will likely create no more than a palm sized pattern when fired at a target 7 meters away (typical home engagement distance).  Thats 8 or 9 .32 caliber shots in a spread of no more than six inches across. Factor-in low light, rapid movement, hefty recoil as well as adrenaline induced tremors and you will see how it is quite easy to miss!
> 
> Read further
> The shotgun approach | Home Defense Journal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a palm size target...... is a bigger target then a single bullet.
> 
> 
> For someone in this case who is not accustom to guns....... i would think is only going to get off one good shot.
> 
> 
> if they are going miss with a shotgun.... they will miss with a hand gun.
Click to expand...


Shotguns have a large recoil/kick because of that it makes it hard to get back on target. I say what works use it, but just pointing out that shooting a shotgun isn't as simple as people think.

One more time what ever works and you feel comfortable and proficient with use it.


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## Spoonman

Wiseacre said:


> Many thanks to everybody.   Went to the nearby Sports Academy  and bought some weapons before the wife changed her mind.   She went in with me and decided she liked the Heritage Rough Rider .22, which shoots both .22LR and .22 Mag, looks like the guns you see in the old westerns.   I got a Taurus Model 85 .38 Special.   These revolvers don't carry that many bullets like the semis do, but maybe down the road we'll try a couple of those.   I'm thinking with both of us shooting, any bad guys are not likely to hang around.
> 
> Seriously, we'll both go to some classes since we ain't very familiar with guns, and get to a firing range to see how they work out for us.   They won't jam, are easy to clean, and we won't need 'em outside of 20 feet.



good choices,  you'll be happy with both of them. revolvers are a lot of fun to shoot, easy to maintain and very east yo get used to.  

now determine if you are left or righ eye dominant and leart to shoot with your dominant eye.  it will make you a lot more accurate  Dominant Eye - Eye Dominance - Determine Your Dominant Eye


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## Unkotare

Wiseacre said:


> We've had 3 burglaries in our neighborhood recently, and the wife wants to get a couple of weapons for protection. We do have security lights on the outside and an alarm system should someone break in, but if worst comes to worst then I'm gonna do what I gotta do.
> 
> Neither of us is as strong or as young as we used to be, so I'm thinking a shotgun or a .45 is probably too much kick for me.  Likely the noise will scare the crap out of any intruders, but if not I gotta be able to get off multiple rounds with some degree of accuracy in a relatively short amount of time. Likewise thinking against a revolver, what do I do after my 6 shots are gone? Maybe I should mention I got no experience with guns, and neither does the wife. So I need something easy, point and fire.
> 
> So, I'm thinking .22LR hollow point for her, something small and lightweight. She's had rheumatoid arthitis for most of her adult life, doubt if she could handle anything much bigger.   She's one handed too, had a couple of strokes a few years back and as a consequence her right hand/arm are almost useless.  No telling where that 2nd bullet might go if you get my concern.
> 
> For me I'm thinking maybe a .380 or a .40 caliber pistol with around a 10 round clip. With an extra clip should I need it. Chances are it'll all be over one way or another without reloading with both me and her blasting away, unless maybe the intruders and doped up to the gills or bat shit crazy.
> 
> Questions: Is the kick from a .380 or .40 that much less than a .45? I really think if I have to start shooting then I need to be able to quickly continue firing.
> 
> Any consensus about buying a gun at a gun show vs sporting goods store?
> 
> How often should a weapon be cleaned?
> 
> How often do clips wear out? Does the spring need to be replaced every so often?





Do you have a dog?


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## bigrebnc1775

[ame=http://youtu.be/aGyuNnpMqFc]Gun Myths & Misconceptions - YouTube[/ame]


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## Missourian

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Just thought about this Rossi has a lever action 357 mag rifle that holds 12 in the feed tube and 1 in the chamber and their 357 mag. revolvers are very well made. You'll have a rifle and a hand gun that uses the same ammo.
> 
> Rossi .357 model 92 Octagonal 24 inch Barrel, Color Casehardened Recei for sale (914704419)
> 
> Rossi Double Action Revolver 462 (R46202), 357 Magnum, 2 in, Black Rub for sale (974894175)




That may be coming home with me,  when they are back in stock.

My Dad has a Winchester model 1892 that that firearm is based on,  but chambered in 32-20,  so it is rarely fired as the ammo is scarce and expensive.

I'd pair it with a Ruger Blackhawk .357 mag/9mm NATO convertible.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Missourian said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just thought about this Rossi has a lever action 357 mag rifle that holds 12 in the feed tube and 1 in the chamber and their 357 mag. revolvers are very well made. You'll have a rifle and a hand gun that uses the same ammo.
> 
> Rossi .357 model 92 Octagonal 24 inch Barrel, Color Casehardened Recei for sale (914704419)
> 
> Rossi Double Action Revolver 462 (R46202), 357 Magnum, 2 in, Black Rub for sale (974894175)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That may be coming home with me,  when they are back in stock.
> 
> My Dad has a Winchester model 1892 that that firearm is based on,  but chambered in 32-20,  so it is rarely fired as the ammo is scarce and expensive.
> 
> I'd pair it with a Ruger Blackhawk .357 mag/9mm NATO convertible.
Click to expand...


Nice selection


----------



## Wry Catcher

I'd recommend a Great Dane.  With the disabilities of both the OP and his wife the odds are a gun can be taken from them and used on them.  Get a Great Dane; no one is not intimidated by this gentle giant.  Then sign up for first alert, wear the band/alarm at all times.  With the intense bark of the GD and the voice of the first alert monitor most intruders will get the hint and take a hike.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Wry Catcher said:


> I'd recommend a Great Dane.  With the disabilities of both the OP and his wife the odds are a gun can be taken from them and used on them.  Get a Great Dane; no one is not intimidated by this gentle giant.  Then sign up for first alert, wear the band/alarm at all times.  With the intense bark of the GD and the voice of the first alert monitor most intruders will get the hint and take a hike.



A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone


----------



## Wry Catcher

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd recommend a Great Dane.  With the disabilities of both the OP and his wife the odds are a gun can be taken from them and used on them.  Get a Great Dane; no one is not intimidated by this gentle giant.  Then sign up for first alert, wear the band/alarm at all times.  With the intense bark of the GD and the voice of the first alert monitor most intruders will get the hint and take a hike.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone
Click to expand...


Sure.  How many 'intruders' have you shot?  I suspect you have an active fantasy life.


----------



## Spoonman

Wry Catcher said:


> I'd recommend a Great Dane.  With the disabilities of both the OP and his wife the odds are a gun can be taken from them and used on them.  Get a Great Dane; no one is not intimidated by this gentle giant.  Then sign up for first alert, wear the band/alarm at all times.  With the intense bark of the GD and the voice of the first alert monitor most intruders will get the hint and take a hike.



remind me to never hire you for any security advice


----------



## Spoonman

i have this interesting gun. its called a savage 24.  it shoots both a 12 gauge shot shell and a winchester 30 30 round.


----------



## Unkotare

Wry Catcher said:


> I'd recommend a Great Dane.  With the disabilities of both the OP and his wife the odds are a gun can be taken from them and used on them.  Get a Great Dane; no one is not intimidated by this gentle giant.  Then sign up for first alert, wear the band/alarm at all times.  With the intense bark of the GD and the voice of the first alert monitor most intruders will get the hint and take a hike.




A Great Dane is too much dog for an older couple with health issues. There are many medium-size breeds that would work better for such a couple but still provide a very effective deterrent.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Wry Catcher said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd recommend a Great Dane.  With the disabilities of both the OP and his wife the odds are a gun can be taken from them and used on them.  Get a Great Dane; no one is not intimidated by this gentle giant.  Then sign up for first alert, wear the band/alarm at all times.  With the intense bark of the GD and the voice of the first alert monitor most intruders will get the hint and take a hike.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure.  How many 'intruders' have you shot?  I suspect you have an active fantasy life.
Click to expand...


I have a sign similar to this at my front door 







and I also have one of my used target's right below it so I've never been given the chance.


----------



## Spoonman

Unkotare said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd recommend a Great Dane.  With the disabilities of both the OP and his wife the odds are a gun can be taken from them and used on them.  Get a Great Dane; no one is not intimidated by this gentle giant.  Then sign up for first alert, wear the band/alarm at all times.  With the intense bark of the GD and the voice of the first alert monitor most intruders will get the hint and take a hike.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Great Dane is too much dog for an older couple with health issues. There are many medium-size breeds that would work better for such a couple but still provide a very effective detterent.
Click to expand...


not to mention feeding, walking and all the other care it requires


----------



## Wry Catcher

Spoonman said:


> i have this interesting gun. its called a savage 24.  it shoots both a 12 gauge shot shell and a winchester 30 30 round.



I'm sure the 30-30 comforts your neighbors and any passerbys.  A shot gun is a good defensive weapon, a 30-30 is a good deer rifle.


----------



## Missourian

Spoonman said:


> i have this interesting gun. its called a savage 24.  it shoots both a 12 gauge shot shell and a winchester 30 30 round.





I was just referring to this firearm a few weeks ago in another thread.

The 20 gauge/30-30 is (The Savage 24-V model) is on my 'want' list.


----------



## Spoonman

Wry Catcher said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> i have this interesting gun. its called a savage 24.  it shoots both a 12 gauge shot shell and a winchester 30 30 round.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure the 30-30 comforts your neighbors and any passerbys.  A shot gun is a good defensive weapon, a 30-30 is a good deer rifle.
Click to expand...


my 50 cal helps them to sleep a lot easier


----------



## Spoonman

Missourian said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> i have this interesting gun. its called a savage 24.  it shoots both a 12 gauge shot shell and a winchester 30 30 round.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just referring to this firearm a few weeks ago in another thread.
> 
> The 20 gauge/30-30 is (The Savage 24-V model) is on my 'want' list.
Click to expand...


it's a shame they don't make them anymore.  I've been seeing  a few  of them at gun shows recently.  mostly the 22 LRs


----------



## Missourian

Spoonman said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd recommend a Great Dane.  With the disabilities of both the OP and his wife the odds are a gun can be taken from them and used on them.  Get a Great Dane; no one is not intimidated by this gentle giant.  Then sign up for first alert, wear the band/alarm at all times.  With the intense bark of the GD and the voice of the first alert monitor most intruders will get the hint and take a hike.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Great Dane is too much dog for an older couple with health issues. There are many medium-size breeds that would work better for such a couple but still provide a very effective detterent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> not to mention feeding, walking and all the other care it requires
Click to expand...


This is exactly why I would never recommend a dog for home protection only.

If you love dogs,  I would encourage it...but a dog is up to an 18+ year lifestyle commitment with numerous expenditures of both money and time.

Not good advice IMO for a purely home defense role.


----------



## Spoonman

Missourian said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Great Dane is too much dog for an older couple with health issues. There are many medium-size breeds that would work better for such a couple but still provide a very effective detterent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not to mention feeding, walking and all the other care it requires
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is exactly why I would never recommend a dog for home protection only.
> 
> If you love dogs,  I would encourage it...but a dog is up to an 18+ year lifestyle commitment with numerous expenditures of both money and time.
> 
> Not good advice IMO for a purely home defense role.
Click to expand...


exactly, dogs take work and are a commitment.  it's one tihng if you enjoy them and want them as a pet, bu to take one on for the purpose of only security is crazy.  they are a lot of work and an expense.  god forbid they shoot your dog too, then what


----------



## Unkotare

Missourian said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Great Dane is too much dog for an older couple with health issues. There are many medium-size breeds that would work better for such a couple but still provide a very effective detterent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not to mention feeding, walking and all the other care it requires
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is exactly why I would never recommend a dog for home protection only.
> 
> If you love dogs,  I would encourage it...but a dog is up to an 18+ year lifestyle commitment with numerous expenditures of both money and time.
> 
> Not good advice IMO for a purely home defense role.
Click to expand...




Dogs have many benefits beyond home protection. Certainly many more than any other form of 'protection.'


----------



## Missourian

Spoonman said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> i have this interesting gun. its called a savage 24.  it shoots both a 12 gauge shot shell and a winchester 30 30 round.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just referring to this firearm a few weeks ago in another thread.
> 
> The 20 gauge/30-30 is (The Savage 24-V model) is on my 'want' list.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> it's a shame they don't make them anymore.  I've been seeing  a few  of them at gun shows recently.  mostly the 22 LRs
Click to expand...


California wants to ban all shotgun/rifle combinations...that's the thread we were discussing it in...what lunacy.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...-regulations-in-the-nation-3.html#post6802904

I was reading that my beloved H&R Handi-Rifles are also on the way out.  Cheap bolt actions are pushing out the single shots.  So at the moment,  my firearm investing is solely going into the barrels I want before they are no longer available.

H&R 1871 - Barrel Accessory Program


----------



## Wry Catcher

Spoonman said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd recommend a Great Dane.  With the disabilities of both the OP and his wife the odds are a gun can be taken from them and used on them.  Get a Great Dane; no one is not intimidated by this gentle giant.  Then sign up for first alert, wear the band/alarm at all times.  With the intense bark of the GD and the voice of the first alert monitor most intruders will get the hint and take a hike.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Great Dane is too much dog for an older couple with health issues. There are many medium-size breeds that would work better for such a couple but still provide a very effective detterent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> not to mention feeding, walking and all the other care it requires
Click to expand...


My youngest son and his wife have two Great Danes, they do eat quite a lot.  But both are lap dogs (or at least thing they are) and don't require too much exercise.  They're smart and very intimidating when protecting their owner.  An older couple need not fear tripping over them.

I had a St. Bernard in college, other than the drools he was a great dog.  When he spoke, everyone listened - dogs and people.  My last dog was a mixed breed German Shepard/  Keeshhound, she weighed 54 pounds and was the best watch dog.  Her warning bark was sharp and befitting a dog much larger and more vicious.  

Once I was working in the garage and a salesman came in uninvited and she scared the piss out him.  She didn't bite him but bared her teeth and told him off.  I told him not to run, had he done so I'm not sure how she would have reacted.  When I found out what he was doing I told her he was OK and she immediately calmed down. 

In that case no harm was done; some of those gun owners who post here seem to want to be able to use their gun(s) on another human being - as I noted above some seem to have very active fantasy lives.  I suppose George Zimmerman had the same sort of fantasy.


----------



## Unkotare

Spoonman said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> not to mention feeding, walking and all the other care it requires
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is exactly why I would never recommend a dog for home protection only.
> 
> If you love dogs,  I would encourage it...but a dog is up to an 18+ year lifestyle commitment with numerous expenditures of both money and time.
> 
> Not good advice IMO for a purely home defense role.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> exactly, dogs take work and are a commitment.  it's one tihng if you enjoy them and want them as a pet, bu to take one on for the purpose of only security is crazy.  they are a lot of work and an expense.  god forbid they shoot your dog too, then what
Click to expand...



That's like saying "what if a home invader steals your gun?" The difference is that your gun won't die trying to protect you and your gun CAN be turned against you. There's a lot to recommend a dog. There's a lot to recommend planting land mines all around your home. There are choices to be made.


----------



## Spoonman

Missourian said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just referring to this firearm a few weeks ago in another thread.
> 
> The 20 gauge/30-30 is (The Savage 24-V model) is on my 'want' list.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's a shame they don't make them anymore.  I've been seeing  a few  of them at gun shows recently.  mostly the 22 LRs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> California wants to ban all shotgun/rifle combinations...that's the thread we were discussing it in...what lunacy.
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...-regulations-in-the-nation-3.html#post6802904
> 
> I was reading that my beloved H&R Handi-Rifles are also on the way out.  Cheap bolt actions are pushing out the single shots.  So at the moment,  my firearm investing is solely going into the barrels I want before they are no longer available.
> 
> H&R 1871 - Barrel Accessory Program
Click to expand...


smart move,  you never know what is coming down the pike.


----------



## Spoonman

Unkotare said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is exactly why I would never recommend a dog for home protection only.
> 
> If you love dogs,  I would encourage it...but a dog is up to an 18+ year lifestyle commitment with numerous expenditures of both money and time.
> 
> Not good advice IMO for a purely home defense role.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> exactly, dogs take work and are a commitment.  it's one tihng if you enjoy them and want them as a pet, bu to take one on for the purpose of only security is crazy.  they are a lot of work and an expense.  god forbid they shoot your dog too, then what
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's like saying "what if a home invader steals your gun?" The difference is that your gun won't die trying to protect you and your gun CAN be turned against you. There's a lot to recommend a dog. There's a lot to recommend planting land mines all around your home. There are choices to be made.
Click to expand...


if someone comes into my home, i'll hear them coming. my gun will be in hand long before they get to me. i've seen so many cases where guard dogs have been rendered ineffective by a chunk of meat.  they are real easy to distract


----------



## Unkotare

Spoonman said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> exactly, dogs take work and are a commitment.  it's one tihng if you enjoy them and want them as a pet, bu to take one on for the purpose of only security is crazy.  they are a lot of work and an expense.  god forbid they shoot your dog too, then what
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's like saying "what if a home invader steals your gun?" The difference is that your gun won't die trying to protect you and your gun CAN be turned against you. There's a lot to recommend a dog. There's a lot to recommend planting land mines all around your home. There are choices to be made.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> if someone comes into my home, i'll hear them coming. my gun will be in hand long before they get to me.
Click to expand...



How do you know? You don't sleep? I'd bet a hell of a lot more on a dog hearing someone coming in than you. How about your dog really does hear someone and wakes you up so you can get your gun? How about your dog makes a racket and the thief decides another home might be less trouble?


----------



## Spoonman

Wry Catcher said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Great Dane is too much dog for an older couple with health issues. There are many medium-size breeds that would work better for such a couple but still provide a very effective detterent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not to mention feeding, walking and all the other care it requires
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My youngest son and his wife have two Great Danes, they do eat quite a lot.  But both are lap dogs (or at least thing they are) and don't require too much exercise.  They're smart and very intimidating when protecting their owner.  An older couple need not fear tripping over them.
> 
> I had a St. Bernard in college, other than the drools he was a great dog.  When he spoke, everyone listened - dogs and people.  My last dog was a mixed breed German Shepard/  Keeshhound, she weighed 54 pounds and was the best watch dog.  Her warning bark was sharp and befitting a dog much larger and more vicious.
> 
> Once I was working in the garage and a salesman came in uninvited and she scared the piss out him.  She didn't bite him but bared her teeth and told him off.  I told him not to run, had he done so I'm not sure how she would have reacted.  When I found out what he was doing I told her he was OK and she immediately calmed down.
> 
> In that case no harm was done; some of those gun owners who post here seem to want to be able to use their gun(s) on another human being - as I noted above some seem to have very active fantasy lives.  I suppose George Zimmerman had the same sort of fantasy.
Click to expand...


probably most are just saying in a world that has been allowed to go mad they don't intend to sit back and take shit should shit come there way.   the bottom line is you don't belong in my house uninvited. or anyones house uninvited.  if you choose to come in you assume the risk associated.  it's no fantasy.  it's making a choice  to take a stand


----------



## Unkotare

Spoonman said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> not to mention feeding, walking and all the other care it requires
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My youngest son and his wife have two Great Danes, they do eat quite a lot.  But both are lap dogs (or at least thing they are) and don't require too much exercise.  They're smart and very intimidating when protecting their owner.  An older couple need not fear tripping over them.
> 
> I had a St. Bernard in college, other than the drools he was a great dog.  When he spoke, everyone listened - dogs and people.  My last dog was a mixed breed German Shepard/  Keeshhound, she weighed 54 pounds and was the best watch dog.  Her warning bark was sharp and befitting a dog much larger and more vicious.
> 
> Once I was working in the garage and a salesman came in uninvited and she scared the piss out him.  She didn't bite him but bared her teeth and told him off.  I told him not to run, had he done so I'm not sure how she would have reacted.  When I found out what he was doing I told her he was OK and she immediately calmed down.
> 
> In that case no harm was done; some of those gun owners who post here seem to want to be able to use their gun(s) on another human being - as I noted above some seem to have very active fantasy lives.  I suppose George Zimmerman had the same sort of fantasy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> probably most are just saying in a world that has been allowed to go mad they don't intend to sit back and take shit should shit come there way.   the bottom line is you don't belong in my house uninvited. or anyones house uninvited.  if you choose to come in you assume the risk associated.  it's no fantasy.  it's making a choice  to take a stand
Click to expand...




Ok...the needle is starting to move in the direction of 'Bunker Nut'.............


----------



## Spoonman

Unkotare said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's like saying "what if a home invader steals your gun?" The difference is that your gun won't die trying to protect you and your gun CAN be turned against you. There's a lot to recommend a dog. There's a lot to recommend planting land mines all around your home. There are choices to be made.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if someone comes into my home, i'll hear them coming. my gun will be in hand long before they get to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know? You don't sleep? I'd bet a hell of a lot more on a dog hearing someone coming in than you. How about your dog really does hear someone and wakes you up so you can get your gun? How about your dog makes a racket and the thief decides another home might be less trouble?
Click to expand...


like i said,  i have seen many dogs rendedered inneffective very easily.   all dogs aren't junk yard dogs.  but in your example, at least i have a gun.   but if you don't have one, where are you?   if someones coming in, i'll hear them.  i can reach a gun without getting out of bed.


----------



## Spoonman

Unkotare said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> My youngest son and his wife have two Great Danes, they do eat quite a lot.  But both are lap dogs (or at least thing they are) and don't require too much exercise.  They're smart and very intimidating when protecting their owner.  An older couple need not fear tripping over them.
> 
> I had a St. Bernard in college, other than the drools he was a great dog.  When he spoke, everyone listened - dogs and people.  My last dog was a mixed breed German Shepard/  Keeshhound, she weighed 54 pounds and was the best watch dog.  Her warning bark was sharp and befitting a dog much larger and more vicious.
> 
> Once I was working in the garage and a salesman came in uninvited and she scared the piss out him.  She didn't bite him but bared her teeth and told him off.  I told him not to run, had he done so I'm not sure how she would have reacted.  When I found out what he was doing I told her he was OK and she immediately calmed down.
> 
> In that case no harm was done; some of those gun owners who post here seem to want to be able to use their gun(s) on another human being - as I noted above some seem to have very active fantasy lives.  I suppose George Zimmerman had the same sort of fantasy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> probably most are just saying in a world that has been allowed to go mad they don't intend to sit back and take shit should shit come there way.   the bottom line is you don't belong in my house uninvited. or anyones house uninvited.  if you choose to come in you assume the risk associated.  it's no fantasy.  it's making a choice  to take a stand
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok...the needle is starting to move in the direction of 'Bunker Nut'.............
Click to expand...


yea, whatever


----------



## Unkotare

Spoonman said:


> but in your example, at least i have a gun.   but if you don't have one, where are you?  .





You are in a house with a dog making a shit load of noise. Probably not the house a thief wants to work if there are other options.


----------



## Unkotare

Spoonman said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> probably most are just saying in a world that has been allowed to go mad they don't intend to sit back and take shit should shit come there way.   the bottom line is you don't belong in my house uninvited. or anyones house uninvited.  if you choose to come in you assume the risk associated.  it's no fantasy.  it's making a choice  to take a stand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok...the needle is starting to move in the direction of 'Bunker Nut'.............
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yea, whatever
Click to expand...



That's what I thought.


----------



## Unkotare

Spoonman said:


> i can reach a gun without getting out of bed.





You might not always live alone (but it sounds like maybe you should).


----------



## Spoonman

Unkotare said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> but in your example, at least i have a gun.   but if you don't have one, where are you?  .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are in a house with a dog making a shit load of noise. Probably not the house a thief wants to work if there are other options.
Click to expand...


squat down, clap your hands, say come here boy.  most dogs come with their tails wagging.  what if you are allergic to dogs? what if you are just making ends meet feding yourself and you don;t want the expense of a dog. or want to deal with hair and the smell of an animal all over everything?  i'll take a gun,  a gun too serves a lot more purpose than just self defense


----------



## Spoonman

Unkotare said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> i can reach a gun without getting out of bed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You might not always live alone (but it sounds like maybe you should).
Click to expand...


don't worry,  both my buys can reach a gun without getting out of bed too.  my wife is a fair shot in her own right as well


----------



## Missourian

Unkotare said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> not to mention feeding, walking and all the other care it requires
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is exactly why I would never recommend a dog for home protection only.
> 
> If you love dogs,  I would encourage it...but a dog is up to an 18+ year lifestyle commitment with numerous expenditures of both money and time.
> 
> Not good advice IMO for a purely home defense role.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogs have many benefits beyond home protection. Certainly many more than any other form of 'protection.'
Click to expand...


Of course they do...and for a person who wants a dog for those qualities,  the home protection aspect is a bonus.

Those seeking a home protection solution only should not be advised to acquire a canine to meet that requirement solely.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Missourian said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is exactly why I would never recommend a dog for home protection only.
> 
> If you love dogs,  I would encourage it...but a dog is up to an 18+ year lifestyle commitment with numerous expenditures of both money and time.
> 
> Not good advice IMO for a purely home defense role.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogs have many benefits beyond home protection. Certainly many more than any other form of 'protection.'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course they do...and for a person who wants a dog for those qualities,  the home protection aspect is a bonus.
> 
> Those seeking a home protection solution only should not be advised to acquire a canine to meet that requirement solely.
Click to expand...


A dog is just a backup if it's trained properly


----------



## Unkotare

Spoonman said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> but in your example, at least i have a gun.   but if you don't have one, where are you?  .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are in a house with a dog making a shit load of noise. Probably not the house a thief wants to work if there are other options.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> squat down, clap your hands, say come here boy.  most dogs come with their tails wagging.  what if you are allergic to dogs?
Click to expand...




You don't know much about dogs.


----------



## Unkotare

Spoonman said:


> what if you are just making ends meet feding yourself and you don;t want the expense of a dog. or want to deal with hair and the smell of an animal all over everything?





But you can afford to buy a gun, ammunition, service the weapon regularly, and accept the risk of someone accidentally killing you or themselves? I'm not arguing against owning a firearm, but everything has its expense and your arguments against owning a dog are beyond lame.


----------



## Unkotare

Spoonman said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> i can reach a gun without getting out of bed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You might not always live alone (but it sounds like maybe you should).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> don't worry,  both my buys can reach a gun without getting out of bed too.  my wife is a fair shot in her own right as well
Click to expand...



If you and everyone in your family needs to sleep within arm's reach of a loaded weapon, you should think about moving to a better area or seeing a shrink.


----------



## Wry Catcher

That (some) people believe a gun is the first line of defense is scary, that's how accidents happen.  Good locks, exterior lightening and man's best friend are the first line of home defense.  Add a bit of common sense, an alarm system if truly scared, therapy if paranoid, and most Americans will be safe.  If not they can always blame liberals if they must rely on 'only' a legal gun, or two, three or more.

Stand your ground thinking is stinking thinking and an excuse for some whose fantasy life is filled with firefights against the bad guys in gun battles where in their fantasy they always win.  Real life isn't so.


----------



## Spoonman

Unkotare said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are in a house with a dog making a shit load of noise. Probably not the house a thief wants to work if there are other options.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squat down, clap your hands, say come here boy.  most dogs come with their tails wagging.  what if you are allergic to dogs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know much about dogs.
Click to expand...


no i don't,  i've only raised them all my life


----------



## Unkotare

I agree that you don't. It's obvious. Did you find a good shrink yet?


----------



## Spoonman

Unkotare said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> what if you are just making ends meet feding yourself and you don;t want the expense of a dog. or want to deal with hair and the smell of an animal all over everything?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But you can afford to buy a gun, ammunition, service the weapon regularly, and accept the risk of someone accidentally killing you or themselves? I'm not arguing against owning a firearm, but everything has its expense and your arguments against owning a dog are beyond lame.
Click to expand...


if you own them only for self defense, there isn't much expense at all.  my father had his pistol. when he died it had the same magazine with the same bullets in it that were there 40 years earlier. he had no expense at all.   if you are like me who target shoots regularly, yea, there is a big expense. but its a hoby.  I had a huge expense in film and development too before the onset of digital.  but that's my choice. i've shot well over 100,000 rounds and no one has died. even accidentally.


----------



## Spoonman

Unkotare said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You might not always live alone (but it sounds like maybe you should).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> don't worry,  both my buys can reach a gun without getting out of bed too.  my wife is a fair shot in her own right as well
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If you and everyone in your family needs to sleep within arm's reach of a loaded weapon, you should think about moving to a better area or seeing a shrink.
Click to expand...


better safe than sorry.  we'll be safe


----------



## Spoonman

Wry Catcher said:


> That (some) people believe a gun is the first line of defense is scary, that's how accidents happen.  Good locks, exterior lightening and man's best friend are the first line of home defense.  Add a bit of common sense, an alarm system if truly scared, therapy if paranoid, and most Americans will be safe.  If not they can always blame liberals if they must rely on 'only' a legal gun, or two, three or more.
> 
> Stand your ground thinking is stinking thinking and an excuse for some whose fantasy life is filled with firefights against the bad guys in gun battles where in their fantasy they always win.  Real life isn't so.



precautions are great. they still get breached.  then what do you do?  I know what i do


----------



## Spoonman

Unkotare said:


> I agree that you don't. It's obvious. Did you find a good shrink yet?



but of course you would.  I see you, like wry catcher are great ones for making ludacris assumptions


----------



## Unkotare

Spoonman said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> don't worry,  both my buys can reach a gun without getting out of bed too.  my wife is a fair shot in her own right as well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you and everyone in your family needs to sleep within arm's reach of a loaded weapon, you should think about moving to a better area or seeing a shrink.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> better safe than sorry.  we'll be safe
Click to expand...




How about 'better sane than psycho'? Do you live in some post-apocalyptic war zone, Max?


----------



## Unkotare

Spoonman said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that you don't. It's obvious. Did you find a good shrink yet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but of course you would.  I see you, like wry catcher are great ones for making ludacris assumptions
Click to expand...




You can only be judged by your words here. Think about choosing them more carefully.


----------



## Spoonman

Unkotare said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you and everyone in your family needs to sleep within arm's reach of a loaded weapon, you should think about moving to a better area or seeing a shrink.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> better safe than sorry.  we'll be safe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about 'better sane than psycho'? Do you live in some post-apocalyptic war zone, Max?
Click to expand...


you seem to be the one who is all psycho on guns.  are you afraid of your shadow too?


----------



## Unkotare

Spoonman said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> better safe than sorry.  we'll be safe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about 'better sane than psycho'? Do you live in some post-apocalyptic war zone, Max?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you seem to be the one who is all psycho on guns.  are you afraid of your shadow too?
Click to expand...



Did YOU really just ask that? YOU who cannot sleep without a loaded weapon within arm's reach at all times? Wrong question, Max.


----------



## Spoonman

Unkotare said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about 'better sane than psycho'? Do you live in some post-apocalyptic war zone, Max?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you seem to be the one who is all psycho on guns.  are you afraid of your shadow too?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Did YOU really just ask that? YOU who cannot sleep without a loaded weapon within arm's reach at all times? Wrong question, Max.
Click to expand...


see, i have no reason to fear anything.


----------



## Unkotare

Spoonman said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> you seem to be the one who is all psycho on guns.  are you afraid of your shadow too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did YOU really just ask that? YOU who cannot sleep without a loaded weapon within arm's reach at all times? Wrong question, Max.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> see, i have no reason to fear anything.
Click to expand...




Then why do you seem to fear everything?


----------



## Missourian

MHO,  getting a dog solely for home protection is analogous to getting married just to get someone to cook,  or having a child just to have someone to mow the lawn.

If your not interested in the whole package,  the best advice is to steer clear...because chances are it Usn't going to work out well.


----------



## Spoonman

Unkotare said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did YOU really just ask that? YOU who cannot sleep without a loaded weapon within arm's reach at all times? Wrong question, Max.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> see, i have no reason to fear anything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why do you seem to fear everything?
Click to expand...


see, another ridiculous assumption on your part.


----------



## hortysir

Where ya at, WiseAcre??


Any decisions or new thoughts?


----------



## Spoonman

Missourian said:


> MHO,  getting a dog solely for home protection is analogous to getting married just to get someone to cook,  or having a child just to have someone to mow the lawn.
> 
> If your not interested in the whole package,  the best advice is to steer clear...because chances are it Usn't going to work out well.



absolutely. you have to be into taking care of the dog.  you don't just own a living creature like an inanimate object.


----------



## Unkotare

Spoonman said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> see, i have no reason to fear anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why do you seem to fear everything?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> see, another ridiculous assumption on your part.
Click to expand...



If you can't sleep without having a loaded gun within arm's reach, you are desperately, desperately afraid.


----------



## Spoonman

Unkotare said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then why do you seem to fear everything?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> see, another ridiculous assumption on your part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If you can't sleep without having a loaded gun within arm's reach, you are desperately, desperately afraid.
Click to expand...


ah, but that is where you are once again wrong.  I sleep like a baby.   do you have insurance?  why do you have insurance?


----------



## Unkotare

Do you have a mental illness? Why do you have a mental illness? 


Unless you live in a neighborhood that is a post nuclear-war wasteland where your neighbors wear bits and pieces of football equipment and ride around your house on home made motocycles screaming and firing shots into the air, you should not need to have a loaded gun at arm's reach at all times. Having a gun for home protection is one thing, but being terrified 24hrs/day is another. You need to move or you need to have someone look into whatever is wrong with your head.


----------



## Unkotare

Spoonman said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> see, another ridiculous assumption on your part.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you can't sleep without having a loaded gun within arm's reach, you are desperately, desperately afraid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ah, but that is where you are once again wrong.  I sleep like a baby.
Click to expand...




Babies can sleep just fine without a loaded gun in arm's reach at all times.


----------



## Spoonman

Unkotare said:


> Do you have a mental illness? Why do you have a mental illness?
> 
> 
> Unless you live in a neighborhood that is a post nuclear-war wasteland where your neighbors wear bits and pieces of football equipment and ride around your house on home made motocycles screaming and firing shots into the air, you should not need to have a loaded gun at arm's reach at all times. Having a gun for home protection is one thing, but being terrified 24hrs/day is another. You need to move or you need to have someone look into whatever is wrong with your head.



but you are paying for insurance now becasue you think you are going to die tomorrow right? why are you so afraid of dying?


----------



## Spoonman

Unkotare said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you can't sleep without having a loaded gun within arm's reach, you are desperately, desperately afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ah, but that is where you are once again wrong.  I sleep like a baby.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Babies can sleep just fine without a loaded gun in arm's reach at all times.
Click to expand...


i'm glad to see you have found a way to put an end to child abuse


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Wiseacre almost forgot get as much ammo as possible.


----------



## Spoonman

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Wiseacre almost forgot get as much ammo as possible.



especially now.   that is if you can find it


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Spoonman said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wiseacre almost forgot get as much ammo as possible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> especially now.   that is if you can find it
Click to expand...

Find a gunsmith they usually reload or know someone who does.


----------



## Missourian

Better yet,  get a single stage reloader,  and learn to reload yourself.


----------



## Spoonman

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wiseacre almost forgot get as much ammo as possible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> especially now.   that is if you can find it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Find a gunsmith they usually reload or know someone who does.
Click to expand...


i do my own reloading.  actually I  make some of my own projectiles too.  been doing pistol for awhile, i'm just just starting to play around with rifle


----------



## Spoonman

Missourian said:


> Better yet,  get a single stage reloader,  and learn to reload yourself.



90% of what I shoot we reload.  rather then buy brass, i'll buy factory ammunition and then continue to reload the shells until they are spent


----------



## Missourian

Spoonman said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> Better yet,  get a single stage reloader,  and learn to reload yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 90% of what I shoot we reload.  rather then buy brass, i'll buy factory ammunition and then continue to reload the shells until they are spent
Click to expand...


That's the way to go.  I wouldn't feel comfortable shooting third party reloads.


----------



## Spoonman

Missourian said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> Better yet,  get a single stage reloader,  and learn to reload yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 90% of what I shoot we reload.  rather then buy brass, i'll buy factory ammunition and then continue to reload the shells until they are spent
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's the way to go.  I wouldn't feel comfortable shooting third party reloads.
Click to expand...


yea, i like to know what i'm shooting.  besides being a lot more economical, you also get very consistent loads.


----------



## Wiseacre

Are you guys talking about taking the spent shells and refilling them with gunpowder and a new bullet?   That may be cost effective, but I'm thinking I'd rather get a couple boxes of new rounds from the store.   LOL, I'd be afraid to pull the trigger on a shell I reloaded.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Wiseacre said:


> We've had 3 burglaries in our neighborhood recently, and the wife wants to get a couple of weapons for protection. We do have security lights on the outside and an alarm system should someone break in, but if worst comes to worst then I'm gonna do what I gotta do.
> 
> Neither of us is as strong or as young as we used to be, so I'm thinking a shotgun or a .45 is probably too much kick for me.  Likely the noise will scare the crap out of any intruders, but if not I gotta be able to get off multiple rounds with some degree of accuracy in a relatively short amount of time. Likewise thinking against a revolver, what do I do after my 6 shots are gone? Maybe I should mention I got no experience with guns, and neither does the wife. So I need something easy, point and fire.
> 
> So, I'm thinking .22LR hollow point for her, something small and lightweight. She's had rheumatoid arthitis for most of her adult life, doubt if she could handle anything much bigger.   She's one handed too, had a couple of strokes a few years back and as a consequence her right hand/arm are almost useless.  No telling where that 2nd bullet might go if you get my concern.
> 
> For me I'm thinking maybe a .380 or a .40 caliber pistol with around a 10 round clip. With an extra clip should I need it. Chances are it'll all be over one way or another without reloading with both me and her blasting away, unless maybe the intruders and doped up to the gills or bat shit crazy.
> 
> Questions: Is the kick from a .380 or .40 that much less than a .45? I really think if I have to start shooting then I need to be able to quickly continue firing.
> 
> Any consensus about buying a gun at a gun show vs sporting goods store?
> 
> How often should a weapon be cleaned?
> 
> How often do clips wear out? Does the spring need to be replaced every so often?




Just draw a chalk outline of a body outside your front door.....


----------



## Wiseacre

PoliticalChic said:


> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> We've had 3 burglaries in our neighborhood recently, and the wife wants to get a couple of weapons for protection. We do have security lights on the outside and an alarm system should someone break in, but if worst comes to worst then I'm gonna do what I gotta do.
> 
> Neither of us is as strong or as young as we used to be, so I'm thinking a shotgun or a .45 is probably too much kick for me.  Likely the noise will scare the crap out of any intruders, but if not I gotta be able to get off multiple rounds with some degree of accuracy in a relatively short amount of time. Likewise thinking against a revolver, what do I do after my 6 shots are gone? Maybe I should mention I got no experience with guns, and neither does the wife. So I need something easy, point and fire.
> 
> So, I'm thinking .22LR hollow point for her, something small and lightweight. She's had rheumatoid arthitis for most of her adult life, doubt if she could handle anything much bigger.   She's one handed too, had a couple of strokes a few years back and as a consequence her right hand/arm are almost useless.  No telling where that 2nd bullet might go if you get my concern.
> 
> For me I'm thinking maybe a .380 or a .40 caliber pistol with around a 10 round clip. With an extra clip should I need it. Chances are it'll all be over one way or another without reloading with both me and her blasting away, unless maybe the intruders and doped up to the gills or bat shit crazy.
> 
> Questions: Is the kick from a .380 or .40 that much less than a .45? I really think if I have to start shooting then I need to be able to quickly continue firing.
> 
> Any consensus about buying a gun at a gun show vs sporting goods store?
> 
> How often should a weapon be cleaned?
> 
> How often do clips wear out? Does the spring need to be replaced every so often?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just draw a chalk outline of a body outside your front door.....
Click to expand...



Would that it was that easy.


----------



## Spoonman

Wiseacre said:


> Are you guys talking about taking the spent shells and refilling them with gunpowder and a new bullet?   That may be cost effective, but I'm thinking I'd rather get a couple boxes of new rounds from the store.   LOL, I'd be afraid to pull the trigger on a shell I reloaded.



yea,   it's a lot easier then it looks.  and if you shoot a lot, it's almost a must


----------



## Spoonman

PoliticalChic said:


> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> We've had 3 burglaries in our neighborhood recently, and the wife wants to get a couple of weapons for protection. We do have security lights on the outside and an alarm system should someone break in, but if worst comes to worst then I'm gonna do what I gotta do.
> 
> Neither of us is as strong or as young as we used to be, so I'm thinking a shotgun or a .45 is probably too much kick for me.  Likely the noise will scare the crap out of any intruders, but if not I gotta be able to get off multiple rounds with some degree of accuracy in a relatively short amount of time. Likewise thinking against a revolver, what do I do after my 6 shots are gone? Maybe I should mention I got no experience with guns, and neither does the wife. So I need something easy, point and fire.
> 
> So, I'm thinking .22LR hollow point for her, something small and lightweight. She's had rheumatoid arthitis for most of her adult life, doubt if she could handle anything much bigger.   She's one handed too, had a couple of strokes a few years back and as a consequence her right hand/arm are almost useless.  No telling where that 2nd bullet might go if you get my concern.
> 
> For me I'm thinking maybe a .380 or a .40 caliber pistol with around a 10 round clip. With an extra clip should I need it. Chances are it'll all be over one way or another without reloading with both me and her blasting away, unless maybe the intruders and doped up to the gills or bat shit crazy.
> 
> Questions: Is the kick from a .380 or .40 that much less than a .45? I really think if I have to start shooting then I need to be able to quickly continue firing.
> 
> Any consensus about buying a gun at a gun show vs sporting goods store?
> 
> How often should a weapon be cleaned?
> 
> How often do clips wear out? Does the spring need to be replaced every so often?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just draw a chalk outline of a body outside your front door.....
Click to expand...


lol, and just put a few rounds through the door for another visual


----------



## Ernie S.

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> We've had 3 burglaries in our neighborhood recently, and the wife wants to get a couple of weapons for protection. We do have security lights on the outside and an alarm system should someone break in, but if worst comes to worst then I'm gonna do what I gotta do.
> 
> Neither of us is as strong or as young as we used to be, so I'm thinking a shotgun or a .45 is probably too much kick for me.  Likely the noise will scare the crap out of any intruders, but if not I gotta be able to get off multiple rounds with some degree of accuracy in a relatively short amount of time. Likewise thinking against a revolver, what do I do after my 6 shots are gone? Maybe I should mention I got no experience with guns, and neither does the wife. So I need something easy, point and fire.
> 
> So, I'm thinking .22LR hollow point for her, something small and lightweight. She's had rheumatoid arthitis for most of her adult life, doubt if she could handle anything much bigger.   She's one handed too, had a couple of strokes a few years back and as a consequence her right hand/arm are almost useless.  No telling where that 2nd bullet might go if you get my concern.
> 
> For me I'm thinking maybe a .380 or a .40 caliber pistol with around a 10 round clip. With an extra clip should I need it. Chances are it'll all be over one way or another without reloading with both me and her blasting away, unless maybe the intruders and doped up to the gills or bat shit crazy.
> 
> Questions: Is the kick from a .380 or .40 that much less than a .45? I really think if I have to start shooting then I need to be able to quickly continue firing.
> 
> Any consensus about buying a gun at a gun show vs sporting goods store?
> 
> How often should a weapon be cleaned?
> 
> How often do clips wear out? Does the spring need to be replaced every so often?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't have experience with a semi automatic pistol I would suggest a revolver 357 mag would do the task needed too do. You can shoot 357 mag and 38 special with the same gun.
Click to expand...

Good advice. Go to the range with it and fire .38 specials. Come home and load it with .357's. In my experience, you only notice recoil at the range. In a must act situation you won't feel it, at least until it's all over.


----------



## Wiseacre

Ernie S. said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> We've had 3 burglaries in our neighborhood recently, and the wife wants to get a couple of weapons for protection. We do have security lights on the outside and an alarm system should someone break in, but if worst comes to worst then I'm gonna do what I gotta do.
> 
> Neither of us is as strong or as young as we used to be, so I'm thinking a shotgun or a .45 is probably too much kick for me.  Likely the noise will scare the crap out of any intruders, but if not I gotta be able to get off multiple rounds with some degree of accuracy in a relatively short amount of time. Likewise thinking against a revolver, what do I do after my 6 shots are gone? Maybe I should mention I got no experience with guns, and neither does the wife. So I need something easy, point and fire.
> 
> So, I'm thinking .22LR hollow point for her, something small and lightweight. She's had rheumatoid arthitis for most of her adult life, doubt if she could handle anything much bigger.   She's one handed too, had a couple of strokes a few years back and as a consequence her right hand/arm are almost useless.  No telling where that 2nd bullet might go if you get my concern.
> 
> For me I'm thinking maybe a .380 or a .40 caliber pistol with around a 10 round clip. With an extra clip should I need it. Chances are it'll all be over one way or another without reloading with both me and her blasting away, unless maybe the intruders and doped up to the gills or bat shit crazy.
> 
> Questions: Is the kick from a .380 or .40 that much less than a .45? I really think if I have to start shooting then I need to be able to quickly continue firing.
> 
> Any consensus about buying a gun at a gun show vs sporting goods store?
> 
> How often should a weapon be cleaned?
> 
> How often do clips wear out? Does the spring need to be replaced every so often?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't have experience with a semi automatic pistol I would suggest a revolver 357 mag would do the task needed too do. You can shoot 357 mag and 38 special with the same gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good advice. Go to the range with it and fire .38 specials. Come home and load it with .357's. In my experience, you only notice recoil at the range. In a must act situation you won't feel it, at least until it's all over.
Click to expand...


The Sports Academy where I bought my guns didn't have any .357 mag revolvers.   So I got the Taurus Ultralite M85 .38 special instead.   As you might imagine, their stock of pistols and revolvers is somewhat low these days so I got what I could get.   My range of fire is only about 20 feet, due to the configuration of my bedroom.   So I'm thinking the .38 will do well enough, considering it won't take me very long to aim and fire again compared to a mag.   I'm going to go back and get a pistol with more bullets in it next time, maybe a 9mm with 10 or 12 round clip.   Not planning on a war, but I'd hate to have to take the time to load 5 more bullets.   Better to pick up another weapon and keep firing.


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## Spoonman

Wiseacre said:


> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't have experience with a semi automatic pistol I would suggest a revolver 357 mag would do the task needed too do. You can shoot 357 mag and 38 special with the same gun.
> 
> 
> 
> Good advice. Go to the range with it and fire .38 specials. Come home and load it with .357's. In my experience, you only notice recoil at the range. In a must act situation you won't feel it, at least until it's all over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Sports Academy where I bought my guns didn't have any .357 mag revolvers.   So I got the Taurus Ultralite M85 .38 special instead.   As you might imagine, their stock of pistols and revolvers is somewhat low these days so I got what I could get.   My range of fire is only about 20 feet, due to the configuration of my bedroom.   So I'm thinking the .38 will do well enough, considering it won't take me very long to aim and fire again compared to a mag.   I'm going to go back and get a pistol with more bullets in it next time, maybe a 9mm with 10 or 12 round clip.   Not planning on a war, but I'd hate to have to take the time to load 5 more bullets.   Better to pick up another weapon and keep firing.
Click to expand...

you will be more than fine with the .38 special.   the nice part about a magazine is it really is a quick easy change if you need to.  you can always by a spare cylinder for your revolver, practice changing it in and out.  if you aren't comfortable with that you can get what is called a speed reloader.  rather than reloading the shells one by one you can reload the whole cyllinder at once.


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## Wiseacre

Spoonman said:


> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good advice. Go to the range with it and fire .38 specials. Come home and load it with .357's. In my experience, you only notice recoil at the range. In a must act situation you won't feel it, at least until it's all over.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sports Academy where I bought my guns didn't have any .357 mag revolvers.   So I got the Taurus Ultralite M85 .38 special instead.   As you might imagine, their stock of pistols and revolvers is somewhat low these days so I got what I could get.   My range of fire is only about 20 feet, due to the configuration of my bedroom.   So I'm thinking the .38 will do well enough, considering it won't take me very long to aim and fire again compared to a mag.   I'm going to go back and get a pistol with more bullets in it next time, maybe a 9mm with 10 or 12 round clip.   Not planning on a war, but I'd hate to have to take the time to load 5 more bullets.   Better to pick up another weapon and keep firing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you will be more than fine with the .38 special.   the nice part about a magazine is it really is a quick easy change if you need to.  you can always by a spare cylinder for your revolver, practice changing it in and out.  if you aren't comfortable with that you can get what is called a speed reloader.  rather than reloading the shells one by one you can reload the whole cyllinder at once.
Click to expand...



LOL, no thanks.   If bullets are flyin' and the wife is screamin' bloody murder, I need to just pick up another weapon and go to shootin'.   I highly doubt any burglar(s) is going to hang around when I start firing my .38 and the wife fires her .22 mag, but I'd feel a lot more comfortable with an extra gun that I can just pick up and use.


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## Spoonman

Wiseacre said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Sports Academy where I bought my guns didn't have any .357 mag revolvers.   So I got the Taurus Ultralite M85 .38 special instead.   As you might imagine, their stock of pistols and revolvers is somewhat low these days so I got what I could get.   My range of fire is only about 20 feet, due to the configuration of my bedroom.   So I'm thinking the .38 will do well enough, considering it won't take me very long to aim and fire again compared to a mag.   I'm going to go back and get a pistol with more bullets in it next time, maybe a 9mm with 10 or 12 round clip.   Not planning on a war, but I'd hate to have to take the time to load 5 more bullets.   Better to pick up another weapon and keep firing.
> 
> 
> 
> you will be more than fine with the .38 special.   the nice part about a magazine is it really is a quick easy change if you need to.  you can always by a spare cylinder for your revolver, practice changing it in and out.  if you aren't comfortable with that you can get what is called a speed reloader.  rather than reloading the shells one by one you can reload the whole cyllinder at once.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, no thanks.   If bullets are flyin' and the wife is screamin' bloody murder, I need to just pick up another weapon and go to shootin'.   I highly doubt any burglar(s) is going to hang around when I start firing my .38 and the wife fires her .22 mag, but I'd feel a lot more comfortable with an extra gun that I can just pick up and use.
Click to expand...


variety is the spice of life  lol    besides, you can never have too many.   who knows, you may find you really enjoy shooting and take it up as a hobby.  my son and i get out at least every other weekend.   we're lucky. we have a cornfield to shoot in so we don't have the range costs.  but we shoot a lot of high powered rifles too so we need the space.  If your are just shooting pistols all you need is a spot of land with sort of a natural berm or hill to shoot against.


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## Wiseacre

Spoonman said:


> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> you will be more than fine with the .38 special.   the nice part about a magazine is it really is a quick easy change if you need to.  you can always by a spare cylinder for your revolver, practice changing it in and out.  if you aren't comfortable with that you can get what is called a speed reloader.  rather than reloading the shells one by one you can reload the whole cyllinder at once.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, no thanks.   If bullets are flyin' and the wife is screamin' bloody murder, I need to just pick up another weapon and go to shootin'.   I highly doubt any burglar(s) is going to hang around when I start firing my .38 and the wife fires her .22 mag, but I'd feel a lot more comfortable with an extra gun that I can just pick up and use.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> variety is the spice of life  lol    besides, you can never have too many.   who knows, you may find you really enjoy shooting and take it up as a hobby.  my son and i get out at least every other weekend.   we're lucky. we have a cornfield to shoot in so we don't have the range costs.  but we shoot a lot of high powered rifles too so we need the space.  If your are just shooting pistols all you need is a spot of land with sort of a natural berm or hill to shoot against.
Click to expand...



Well, I am kind of getting interested.   I know you can't shoot within city limits, but here in south Texas there's gotta be empty places and spaces where you can pull off the road and fire at rocks or something.   Right now I'm looking at getting a 9mm or a .380 semi with a clip for 10 - 12 rounds for backup.   Not sure if a larger clip than can hold 15 rounds or more has an increased chance of jamming.


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## Spoonman

Wiseacre said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, no thanks.   If bullets are flyin' and the wife is screamin' bloody murder, I need to just pick up another weapon and go to shootin'.   I highly doubt any burglar(s) is going to hang around when I start firing my .38 and the wife fires her .22 mag, but I'd feel a lot more comfortable with an extra gun that I can just pick up and use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> variety is the spice of life  lol    besides, you can never have too many.   who knows, you may find you really enjoy shooting and take it up as a hobby.  my son and i get out at least every other weekend.   we're lucky. we have a cornfield to shoot in so we don't have the range costs.  but we shoot a lot of high powered rifles too so we need the space.  If your are just shooting pistols all you need is a spot of land with sort of a natural berm or hill to shoot against.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I am kind of getting interested.   I know you can't shoot within city limits, but here in south Texas there's gotta be empty places and spaces where you can pull off the road and fire at rocks or something.   Right now I'm looking at getting a 9mm or a .380 semi with a clip for 10 - 12 rounds for backup.   Not sure if a larger clip than can hold 15 rounds or more has an increased chance of jamming.
Click to expand...


you are in texas?  you are golden.  you'll find a ton of open places.  plus your laws are very favorable to gun owners.   i would highly recommend a baretta M-9  if you are looking at a 9mm.  I love that gun.  great to shoot, smooth as hell.  and very safe.  whne you put the safety on the firing pin actually disengages. it turns up.  no way that gun is going off.  very safe to keep a bullet chambered and ready to fire while you are carrying it in your holster.  I use 15 round magazines in that gun.  illegal here, but whatever.  never had a jam.  i've easilly put 10,000 rounds through that gun.  i have a .380 walther ppk.  that is a real nice carry gun too.  small and light.  that has an 8 round magazine


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## Wiseacre

The Beretta M9 has been the primary sidearm for the US military for the past 25 years or so, I think.   Not sure if it still is, but that's not a bad recommendation for a gun.   15 rounds, that's a lot of firepower.


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## Spoonman

Wiseacre said:


> View attachment 24780
> 
> 
> The Beretta M9 has been the primary sidearm for the US military for the past 25 years or so, I think.   Not sure if it still is, but that's not a bad recommendation for a gun.   15 rounds, that's a lot of firepower.



yes, it still is.  it replaced the colt 45, which is another nice gun.    the M9 comes with a 10 round magazine standard, but you can get 15 round.   like i said, it is a great shooting gun. it also has one of the better sighting set ups IMO


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## Jos

If you just want to scare someone off a revolver with the first two rounds blank ammo, the rest live rounds


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## tjvh

Wiseacre said:


> We've had 3 burglaries in our neighborhood recently, and the wife wants to get a couple of weapons for protection. We do have security lights on the outside and an alarm system should someone break in, but if worst comes to worst then I'm gonna do what I gotta do.
> 
> Neither of us is as strong or as young as we used to be, so I'm thinking a shotgun or a .45 is probably too much kick for me.  Likely the noise will scare the crap out of any intruders, but if not I gotta be able to get off multiple rounds with some degree of accuracy in a relatively short amount of time. Likewise thinking against a revolver, what do I do after my 6 shots are gone? Maybe I should mention I got no experience with guns, and neither does the wife. So I need something easy, point and fire.
> 
> So, I'm thinking .22LR hollow point for her, something small and lightweight. She's had rheumatoid arthitis for most of her adult life, doubt if she could handle anything much bigger.   She's one handed too, had a couple of strokes a few years back and as a consequence her right hand/arm are almost useless.  No telling where that 2nd bullet might go if you get my concern.
> 
> For me I'm thinking maybe a .380 or a .40 caliber pistol with around a 10 round clip. With an extra clip should I need it. Chances are it'll all be over one way or another without reloading with both me and her blasting away, unless maybe the intruders and doped up to the gills or bat shit crazy.
> 
> Questions: Is the kick from a .380 or .40 that much less than a .45? I really think if I have to start shooting then I need to be able to quickly continue firing.
> 
> Any consensus about buying a gun at a gun show vs sporting goods store?
> 
> How often should a weapon be cleaned?
> 
> How often do clips wear out? Does the spring need to be replaced every so often?



Nice to see someone is taking the initiative *not* to be a victim, and choosing rational thinking over political correctness.


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## tjvh

Jos said:


> If you just want to scare someone off a revolver with the first two rounds blank ammo, the rest live rounds



If you're going to arm yourself, don't do it with blanks. Blanks lead to the possibility that you will end up being shot dead, and your gun will will be added to the ever expanding list of criminals with unregistered firearms. There is no such thing as a warning shot, if the people coming at you are also armed.


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## Wiseacre

Jos said:


> If you just want to scare someone off a revolver with the first two rounds blank ammo, the rest live rounds



I could get a starters pistol I guess, no projectile there.   I'm not really looking forward to shooting anybody, I'd just as soon they take off runnin'.   And a shot fired is both a warning that somebody is home AND they are armed.   But my .38 only has 5 bullets in it, and I'm not going to waste 2 of 'em that I might need.   

To get into my house they have to break glass, and the noise will set off the alarm.   So I'm gonna have some time, and I've already worked out what I'm going to do.   I'm gonna tell 'em in no uncertain terms that the cops are coming and they're less than a mile away and I've got guns and will shoot.   If they come into the house anyway, then what happens next is on them.   I like the idea of a starter's pistol though, might avoid any trouble right off the bat.


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## Spoonman

Wiseacre said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you just want to scare someone off a revolver with the first two rounds blank ammo, the rest live rounds
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I could get a starters pistol I guess, no projectile there.   I'm not really looking forward to shooting anybody, I'd just as soon they take off runnin'.   And a shot fired is both a warning that somebody is home AND they are armed.   But my .38 only has 5 bullets in it, and I'm not going to waste 2 of 'em that I might need.
> 
> To get into my house they have to break glass, and the noise will set off the alarm.   So I'm gonna have some time, and I've already worked out what I'm going to do.   I'm gonna tell 'em in no uncertain terms that the cops are coming and they're less than a mile away and I've got guns and will shoot.   If they come into the house anyway, then what happens next is on them.   I like the idea of a starter's pistol though, might avoid any trouble right off the bat.
Click to expand...


no one wants to shoot anyone, let alone kill anyone.  on the other hand, no one wants to die either.  if it did come down to dying or shooting, i'll shoot


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