# Prayer from a secular viewpoint



## vasuderatorrent

Does prayer offer anything other than praise or request to a specific deity? Can it have physical, ethical or emotional benefits?

Therapist are paid hundreds of dollars to allow people to vent and pour out their heart to them.  In my personal life I don't pray.  Even when I was a devout Christian I didn't pray much.  I am beginning to think that is folly.  Isn't talking to a powerful deity like talking to a powerful manager in the real world?  I avoid talking to my managers. I'd rather just do what they say instead of being accused of whining or to be shot down.  Does this attitude of silence cause me to rely on myself too much? Does it cause me to view those in authority as callous and uncaring which can lead to bad behavior on my part?

Does a habit of religious prayer simultaneously create a habit of dialogue with other authority figures?  Would that even be a good thing? Do managers even want to hear your whinging, your complaints, your joys, your idea or your demanding requests?

I hope someone can follow me, preferably someone from a liberal church.

I am uncomfortable praying but I also feel uncomfortable talking to my managers about things that bother me.  Are the two issues related?


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## Likkmee

Your managers didnt create you. They USE you to make themselves look good and get bonuses. Pray as told to in the New testament


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## vasuderatorrent

Likkmee said:


> Your managers didnt create you. They USE you to make themselves look good and get bonuses. Pray as told to in the New testament



The name of this thread is, "Prayer from a Secular Viewpoint".  From a secular viewpoint our parents are our creators.  That would exclude managers.  In that context, your first sentence makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.  What benefit does New Testament prayer offer all those who utilize it?

How does one pray as stated in the New Testament?


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## ding

vasuderatorrent said:


> Does prayer offer anything other than praise or request to a specific deity?



The practical application of prayer is to alter the fabric of one's identity.  So yes, prayer does offer quite a lot. 

The structure of prayer matters quite a lot too.  Giving thanks and giving praise puts one in a thankful state of mind which has been scientifically proven to be one of the key behaviors of reaching a state of happiness.  When we are happy two things will happen; dopamine will be released which gives us that happy feeling and all of the learning centers of the brain get turned on. 

Lastly and probably most importantly, prayer should not be about what God can do for us.  Prayer should be about us asking God what He wants us to do.

Structure of Prayer:
1. Give thanks.
2. Give praise.
3. Ask God what He wants us to do. 
4. Listen.

It can be done anytime, but I believe we are most receptive to hearing the Spirit in the early morning when we are less full of ourselves.


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## ding

vasuderatorrent said:


> Therapist are paid hundreds of dollars to allow people to vent and pour out their heart to them.


Therapy is more akin to confession than it is to prayer.  Confession - like prayer - does have practical aspects.  We are only as sick as the secrets we keep.  That is why therapy can help.  Of course I don't believe it helps as much as it would if you believed your life was part of a greater good and had purpose and meaning.  Anyone who confesses their "sins" - read sins loosely here, call them flaws or mistakes if it offends your secular pride to call them sins - outloud to another person releases the power that that sin holds over them.  It is like a weight being lifted off of us.  Also, you can't fix what your don't acknowledge is broke, and you can't learn what it was you were supposed to learn from your mistakes if you don't admit you made mistakes.  Of course we are free to rationalize away our errors but our lessons will continue to be brought back to us until we admit and learn from them.  This is common sense stuff, right?


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## ding

vasuderatorrent said:


> In my personal life I don't pray. Even when I was a devout Christian I didn't pray much. I am beginning to think that is folly. Isn't talking to a powerful deity like talking to a powerful manager in the real world? I avoid talking to my managers. I'd rather just do what they say instead of being accused of whining or to be shot down. Does this attitude of silence cause me to rely on myself too much? Does it cause me to view those in authority as callous and uncaring which can lead to bad behavior on my part?


I can honestly admit that I don't pray much.  I have no doubt that I am worse off for it too.  Maybe it's time I remedy my error.  I am missing out on using a very powerful tool.  

No, praying to the creator of existence is nothing like talking to a powerful manager in the real world.  My perception of God is that God is no thing.  God is not matter and energy like us and God exists outside of our four dimension space time.  Being things we can't possibly relate to being no things.  A two dimensional being would have an easier time trying to understand our third dimension than we - a four dimensional being - would in trying to understand a multi-dimensional being outside of our space time.  The closest I can come to and later confirm with the physical laws is that God is consciousness.  That Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create. Basically God is a mind without a body and has created a material world so that minds with bodies can know and create so that he may experience the material world through us.  

In other words, he shares in our experiences.  Your line manager also shares in your experiences but not in the same way.


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## ding

vasuderatorrent said:


> Does a habit of religious prayer simultaneously create a habit of dialogue with other authority figures? Would that even be a good thing? Do managers even want to hear your whinging, your complaints, your joys, your idea or your demanding requests?
> 
> I hope someone can follow me, preferably someone from a liberal church.
> 
> I am uncomfortable praying but I also feel uncomfortable talking to my managers about things that bother me. Are the two issues related?


Does a habit of religious prayer simultaneously create a habit of dialogue with other authority figures?  I don't believe so.  Hierarchy is the natural order.  You cannot have a harmonious and orderly society without it.  Dialogue with authority figures is just a part of the natural order of hierarchy. Prayer is about becoming a better version of you. 

Is creating a habit of dialogue with other authority figures a good thing?   Most certainly.  We live in a shared society.  You can't exist in harmony without establishing dialogues with others and that would include authority figures. 

Do managers even want to hear your whinging, your complaints, your joys, your idea or your demanding requests?  They don't want to hear excuses or you blaming others for failing to produce the results you are being paid to produce.  That would just be you transfering your power and control to external sources. They don't mind hearing about obstacles and challenges you overcame though.  In fact it is a best practice to share learnings. Joys?  I guess it depends upon the relationship and if the joys were associated with work or not.  Ideas?  I would hope so.  Demanding requests?  That all depends what is being requested, why it is being requested and how it is being requested.


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## vasuderatorrent




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## Wyatt earp

vasuderatorrent said:


>




Mathew 6:6-7 I always piss off pastors/priest/theologians with those two verses

I despise community prayer. 


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## buttercup

vasuderatorrent said:


> Even when I was a devout Christian I didn't pray much



^ This is very telling.  I think you have a completely wrong idea about what it means to be a devout Christian. So it's not surprising that you left Christianity.   I'll just leave it at that.


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## Likkmee

vasuderatorrent said:


> Likkmee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your managers didnt create you. They USE you to make themselves look good and get bonuses. Pray as told to in the New testament
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The name of this thread is, "Prayer from a Secular Viewpoint".  From a secular viewpoint our parents are our creators.  That would exclude managers.  In that context, your first sentence makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.  What benefit does New Testament prayer offer all those who utilize it?
> 
> How does one pray as stated in the New Testament?
Click to expand...


Well. As stated not to Luke, John, Mark, Mary. NOR Jesus. You pray to Father God, in Jesus name. Amen John 14 or so
*Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.*


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