# Serious?



## Unkotare (Apr 20, 2019)

Anyone interested in a serious discussion about education? Any non-educators have any questions about what really goes on in the classroom instead of stereotypes and assumptions? Any educators want to share stories from the front lines? Anything?


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## impuretrash (Apr 20, 2019)

What percentage of teachers do you reckon favor left wing politics?


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## Marion Morrison (Apr 20, 2019)

impuretrash said:


> What percentage of teachers do you reckon favor left wing politics?



I don't think Unk does. He may be a strange bird, though.


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## impuretrash (Apr 20, 2019)

Marion Morrison said:


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He's a staunch individualist as far as I can tell. Which is fine I suppose but moderation in all things is my motto. Radical individualism is little more than self centered apathy, IMO


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## Unkotare (Apr 20, 2019)

impuretrash said:


> What percentage of teachers do you reckon favor left wing politics?



Just a guess, but I'd say around 65-70%


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## Unkotare (Apr 20, 2019)

Marion Morrison said:


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Right on both counts!


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## Unkotare (Apr 20, 2019)

impuretrash said:


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Right on the first part, but I call foul on the last. I don't think you do what I do if you are ruled by self centered apathy. 


But then again, who cares? I do! No, I don't! Really? I don't know!


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## candycorn (Apr 20, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> Anyone interested in a serious discussion about education? Any non-educators have any questions about what really goes on in the classroom instead of stereotypes and assumptions? Any educators want to share stories from the front lines? Anything?



Hayti HS in Hayti Missouri had a great season last season; 15-0.  Being the district powerhouse, they played mainly home games (6 road games out of 15).  Still, they racked up about 1,500 miles of travel on district school buses.

08/24/18  260 miles. 
09/07/18  151 miles.
10/05/18  141 miles.
10/19/18  34 miles.
11/17/18  260 miles.
12/01/18  605 miles.

This doesn't count the travel of the band, the housing (if any), meals, etc...  

All for nothing.  

And keep in mind that this is just one team out of literally dozens playing one sport (11 man football).  
That 1,500 miles traveled could be easily duplicated for teams playing:

*Sports*

Baseball
Basketball
Cross Country
Field Hockey
Football 
Golf
Lacrosse
Soccer
Softball
Swimming and Diving
Tennis
Track and Field
Volleyball
Water Polo
Wrestling
Factor in a few dozen teams for every sport, give them 1,000 miles of traveling and you can see the incredible expense at stake. 

This doesn't count the utilities to run the stadiums, paying the coaches, officials, groundskeepers, etc...  
This doesn't count the time taken away from what school is supposed to be about (education exploits), etc...
This doesn't count the costs of purchasing equipment, uniforms, insurance, etc....  

Somehow the word "waste" doesn't begin to address the wrongheaded expenditures that are being made in high school athletics.  

You asked for a question...mine would be this: How can this remotely be justified?


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## Unkotare (Apr 20, 2019)

candycorn said:


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What exactly is it you feel needs to be justified? Education?


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## candycorn (Apr 20, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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The justification of spending money to transport about 200-300 teams (the number of high schools) 1,000 miles (about the amount of travel each team makes in a season--the example above showed the travel to be substantially more but not every team makes the playoffs I guess)  each in between 5-15 different sports (15 sports are listed in the MSHSAA website Missouri State High School Activities Association but I'm assuming not  every school has a lacrosse team for example so I gave it a range of 5-15 sports)  .  for absolutely no good reason other than to have them play a meaningless game against someone from a different school.  This is exclusive of the costs of coaches, trainers, facilities, equipment, insurance, housing, etc...  It also doesn't count the other pointless activities that are done in the name of education from the MSHSAA website:

*Activities  *

Bass Fishing
Bowling
Chess
Music Activities
Scholar Bowl
Speech, Debate and Theatre
Spirit Activities
Target Shooting


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## Unkotare (Apr 21, 2019)

“No good reason,” and “meaningless” prove your bias and doubtless ignorance about the topic. 

File under: “education”


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## SweetSue92 (Apr 21, 2019)

impuretrash said:


> What percentage of teachers do you reckon favor left wing politics?



To be honest, most of the educators I have taught with are what I would call "soft liberals" or "garden-variety liberals". They don't have the time or energy to devote much to politics and are not much interested in it, and are extremely soft-hearted, so are easy prey for the "talking points". So, the default position is liberal. However (and this is a big however), they tend to live very "conservative" lives: they are largely married with children, live in the suburbs and--if I dare say it--are conventionally "American". I don't mean that in any racial or religious way. I just mean that in minivan, mortgage, dog, kids. They are NOT far Left. They are NOT interested in "indoctrinating" children. 

Granted, I have never taught in far Leftist bastions, where I suspect this might be different. But although I am conservative, I find the conservative talking points about education really overblown. Not all wrong, but way overblown.


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## SweetSue92 (Apr 21, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> Anyone interested in a serious discussion about education? Any non-educators have any questions about what really goes on in the classroom instead of stereotypes and assumptions? Any educators want to share stories from the front lines? Anything?



Always interested.


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## SweetSue92 (Apr 21, 2019)

candycorn said:


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Extracurriculars: Often where the real learning takes place. 

That is the sad and real truth of American high schools.


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## Unkotare (Apr 21, 2019)

Since the time of the ancient Greeks it has been recognized that physical education is a vital part of overall education. 

Organized, competitive sport offers opportunities to learn important things that can be learned in very few other circumstances.

American traditions about school spirit, community, camaraderie, and identity are tied to sport.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Apr 21, 2019)

SweetSue92 said:


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Conservative talking points are both wrong and overblown with regard to education – the lies of ‘leftist bastions’ and ‘liberal agenda’ in particular.

Indeed, my experience teaching some 30 years ago is no different than today: educators who are underpaid, underappreciated, and overworked – the consequence mostly of failed, wrongheaded Republican fiscal dogma and the right’s general contempt for education and educators.

Whether it be budget cuts, ‘charter’ schools, or Republicans’ contempt for teacher organizations, the root of most education problems is the unwarranted hostility most conservatives have for public school systems and public education.


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## sparky (Apr 21, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> Anyone interested in a serious discussion about education? Any non-educators have any questions about what really goes on in the classroom instead of stereotypes and assumptions? Any educators want to share stories from the front lines? Anything?



I'm _not_ an educator Unkotare

I'm a parent who is glad to have seen my kids _survive_ the system (grown & gone now)

At the risk of_ portraying _my ignorance , i'll simply say there's an obvious _divide _betwixt educators, and the system they have to operate in 

It's like none of them have any _say_ in it


~S~


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## SweetSue92 (Apr 21, 2019)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


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Too simplistic by half


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## SweetSue92 (Apr 21, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> Anyone interested in a serious discussion about education? Any non-educators have any questions about what really goes on in the classroom instead of stereotypes and assumptions? Any educators want to share stories from the front lines? Anything?



Biggest concern:

Mental health crisis and its impact on our students and education.


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## Dogmaphobe (Apr 21, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> Anyone interested in a serious discussion about education? Any non-educators have any questions about what really goes on in the classroom instead of stereotypes and assumptions? Any educators want to share stories from the front lines? Anything?




I think the biggest impediment to out educational system is the idea of mainstreaming. It ties teachers hands, diverts recourses away from the majority to concentrate on the few, disrupts the learning situation and as we have seen -- endangers all concerned.


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## Unkotare (Apr 21, 2019)

Dogmaphobe said:


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Only in the most extreme cases. On the whole, all students deserve an education and we know about 'separate but equal.'


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## SweetSue92 (Apr 21, 2019)

Dogmaphobe said:


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This is a concern. It's a very delicate balance. I think kids benefit when everyone can learn together as much as is reasonable. When I was in elem. school in the 70s, kids with special needs were in a totally separate part of the building, always "segregated", and frankly we were afraid of them. That was no good. The pendulum swung toward including them as much as possible, which is also...not good, because as you say above. Now everyone tries to ride that balance but many with serious behavior problems are not even dx, or if they are, the resources are just not there to help them.


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## candycorn (Apr 21, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> “No good reason,” and “meaningless” prove your bias and doubtless ignorance about the topic.
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> File under: “education”



Just asking you to justify it.  Which, of course, you cannot.  Which is why you fall back to the personal attack.

As always.  If you’re asking for a discussion, man up and try discussing it.


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## candycorn (Apr 21, 2019)

SweetSue92 said:


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So it is required that a HS team travel a thousand miles a season to play a sport?


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## initforme (Apr 21, 2019)

My daughter is a teacher.  My wife is a retired one.  They maintain that more and more is piled on the teachers, less and less on the kids.  All the new initiatives that come and then go because voices cry out about accountability.  But never do we ask the kids to become accountable.  Also, the thought of the test scores that many want yet....don't teach directly to the test.  Soooo, we want high test scores without teaching only to the test.  Crazy.


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## Unkotare (Apr 21, 2019)

candycorn said:


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Read all the replies before emoting.


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## Unkotare (Apr 21, 2019)

candycorn said:


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Why do you use the word "required" in such an obvious manner? If you have read all the replies you should now know why sports are an important part of education and why they are NOT going away just because you never understood or excelled at them. I can recognize the importance of music as one aspect of education , and respect all of the benefits it imparts even though I have never had much aptitude for it. Are you incapable of similar abstract thinking?


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## sealybobo (Apr 21, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> Anyone interested in a serious discussion about education? Any non-educators have any questions about what really goes on in the classroom instead of stereotypes and assumptions? Any educators want to share stories from the front lines? Anything?


How about this. How about parental accountability? They will let anyone be a parent. There is nothing that disqualifies someone from having kids. And you have to deal with their kids. I’m sure between the kid teacher and parent the person most responsible if a kid fails is the parent?


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## sealybobo (Apr 21, 2019)

impuretrash said:


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He has to be a realist. He’s a republican but republicans don’t like teachers. Cognitive dissonance


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## sealybobo (Apr 21, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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Do the 30% who don’t favor left wing policies believe they themselves are overpaid? Then they don’t agree with republicans.


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## sealybobo (Apr 21, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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Yea but shouldn’t parents pay for their kids music lessons? If the federal government is going to be paying for schools shouldn’t those schools be focusing on math, science, computers, etc.

Why invest money for some kid to become a musician? How does that help us out?

But sports are important. Kids are too soft. Gym should continue to be a part of school. In case we ever have a war. 

And sports are big business. Why mess with a good thing. 

But music? I guess the music industry is big too. But schools need to stop teaching violin and start teaching drums gutar and base. Modernize for god sakes.


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## candycorn (Apr 21, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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Because the schedule *requires* you travel to these schools to play away games.  Whether or not your budget is capable of it--if the price of diesel is $5 a gallon or $8 a gallon, you still have to make the trip.  



Unkotare said:


> If you have read all the replies you should now know why sports are an important part of education and why they are NOT going away just because you never understood or excelled at them.


   I just never drank the kool aid and forgot why we have schools in the first place.  Feel free to challenge me to a sports trivia contest if you would like to see who knows more about sports.

If sports are that important....just divide the kids up into two teams and let them play each other? Again, why the 1,000 miles of travel per team, per season, all year, every year?  Don't you learn just enough by playing your class mates as you learn from playing other schools 3 counties over?  



Unkotare said:


> I can recognize the importance of music as one aspect of education , and respect all of the benefits it imparts even though I have never had much aptitude for it. Are you incapable of similar abstract thinking?



Have as large an orchestra, groups, choir, etc... as you want.  Make the arts compulsory. Make athletics compulsory. Just don't ship the kids across the state to perform and incur those costs that can easily be avoided.  

That is the question you're being asked; how does one justify spending so much in travel costs?


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## depotoo (Apr 21, 2019)

You do realize that many if not most, high schools have booster clubs that raise money for uniforms, travel, etc, right?  And these kids get to see other areas in which many might not otherwise.





candycorn said:


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## candycorn (Apr 21, 2019)

sealybobo said:


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East Side HS having a swim meet against West Side HS is "big business"?  

What I never understood is why the swim team can't travel with the Volley Ball team and have the swimmers and the volley ball teams compete at the same time.  

Parents do foot a lot of the costs for the lessons and whatnot.  Travel is almost always a school function though.  And its completely un-necessary if the "real" reason is to enrich the lives of the kids by having them learn to hit a curve ball, play a guitar, run the high-hurdles or wrestle someone.  They could do all of that on the same campus where they go to school.  So I would hope the OP would stop the ridiculous charade.


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## Unkotare (Apr 21, 2019)

candycorn said:


> .....
> Because the schedule *requires* you travel to these schools to play away games.  Whether or not your budget is capable of it--if the price of diesel is $5 a gallon or $8 a gallon, you still have to make the trip. ......




If some place is too far it will not be put on the schedule. Athletic schedules are not handed down from the mountaintop on stone tablets. And I don't know where you live that buses run on  diesel....


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## Unkotare (Apr 21, 2019)

candycorn said:


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Yes, for education. As has been explained to you several times now, physical education is and always has been an important part of education.


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## candycorn (Apr 21, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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Any place off campus is too far.  You can play your classmates and learn the *giggle* v_aluable_ lessons that basketball teaches you.  

More U.S. School Buses Run on New, Low-emission Diesel Technology


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## Unkotare (Apr 21, 2019)

candycorn said:


> ......  Don't you learn just enough by playing your class mates as you learn from playing other schools 3 counties over? ......




No, you don't. This is where I mention ignorance and you take it as a personal attack.


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## candycorn (Apr 21, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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As has been asked of you....why do you have to send teams 1,000 miles a season to do it?  

You do know kids from the same schools can play one another, right?


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## Unkotare (Apr 21, 2019)

candycorn said:


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> Have as large an orchestra, groups, choir, etc... as you want.  Make the arts compulsory. Make athletics compulsory. Just don't ship the kids across the state to perform and incur those costs that can easily be avoided.
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No, we'll continue to do just that. Thanks for the input though.


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## candycorn (Apr 21, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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Really?  What do you learn from playing someone from a different school that you cannot learn from playing your classmate?


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## Unkotare (Apr 21, 2019)

candycorn said:


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According to...._you_?


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## candycorn (Apr 21, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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We should stop spending more money on schools until they learn how to spend what has been already allocated more responsibly in that case.  You're welcome.


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## Unkotare (Apr 21, 2019)

candycorn said:


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You have no experience with competition, do you?


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## candycorn (Apr 21, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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My opinion is just as valid as yours.  I'm sorry if your anger is getting the better of you.  Losing an argument sucks but you should probably be used to it by now.


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## Unkotare (Apr 21, 2019)

candycorn said:


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Yeah, NO.


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## Unkotare (Apr 21, 2019)

candycorn said:


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I don't think so. Your opinion seems to be one devoid of relevant experience.


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## candycorn (Apr 21, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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Sure I do.

Now tell me What do you learn from playing someone from a different school that you cannot learn from playing your classmate?  Your classmate can provide competition.


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## candycorn (Apr 21, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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Wow...that was pretty weak; even for you.


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## candycorn (Apr 21, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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Think whatever you want little man.


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## candycorn (Apr 21, 2019)

candycorn said:


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Well?


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## Unkotare (Apr 21, 2019)

candycorn said:


> .... learn the *giggle* v_aluable_ lessons that basketball teaches you. ......




You realize how your "giggle" exposes  your ignorance of the subject, right? Smart person like you must see it, right?


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## candycorn (Apr 21, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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Your equating dribbling a basketball or running in track to being some great educational feat does make me chuckle, I must admit.  

You are, by now,  used to having people laugh in your face, right?


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## Unkotare (Apr 21, 2019)

candycorn said:


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 Don’t get offended now, as you seem want to do, but you have to see where saying things like that only proves your ignorance about the subject. You see that, right?


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## Unkotare (Apr 21, 2019)

candycorn said:


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 No, not so much. Why do you feel the need to do something like that? Have you considered why? It seems a bit inappropriate, don’t you think?


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## candycorn (Apr 21, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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Well, lets see:

You won't address the original question...how do you defend spending that much money to ship teams too and fro.
You won't address why Timmy can't learn the same *giggle* valuable lesson playing a classmate as opposed to playing someone after traveling 300 miles.
You won't address what value one learns from running track.

But you do want to make this a personal insult fest.  

Nice thread.


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## Unkotare (Apr 21, 2019)

candycorn said:


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It has been addressed over and over. There is no need to "defend." Your rather transparent choice of words speaks volumes.


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## Unkotare (Apr 21, 2019)

candycorn said:


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> You won't address why Timmy can't learn the same ... valuable lesson playing a classmate as opposed to playing someone after traveling 300 miles.
> You won't address what value one learns from running track.......




All of these have been addressed. You don't like the answer so you refuse to listen.


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## Unkotare (Apr 21, 2019)

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I'm sorry, but it's not. Not in this case. If you were an accomplished musician and I (for some foolish reason) tried to denigrate music instruction in school as a waste of time - a position obviously informed in large part by my own inexperience with music - then your opinion would be more valid than mine, and if I had a lick of sense I would listen to you about something you know much more about than I do.


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## Unkotare (Apr 21, 2019)

candycorn said:


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I'll think what is evidently so, little lady.


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## Unkotare (Apr 21, 2019)

candycorn said:


> .... Your classmate can provide competition.




Not really. Not of the same sort. Remember when I told you about community, camaraderie, and identity? You weren't listening, huh?


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## candycorn (Apr 21, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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Uh...no.  Couldn't that money be spent on resources rather than diesel or gasoline to transport kids across the state to play meaningless games?


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## candycorn (Apr 21, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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Why can't a classmate provide competition?


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## Unkotare (Apr 21, 2019)

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Here again you expose your bias and, frankly, blockheadedness, in the use of the word "meaningless." Just because your life experiences and limited intelligence prevent you from seeing the meaning in competitive sport, this does not indicate that such meaning is not there. All money could be spent on other resources, but some money will be spent on sports no matter how bitter your impotence grows.


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## Unkotare (Apr 21, 2019)

candycorn said:


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Motivation, community, commitment.

It's not your fault that you can't understand these things, but it is your fault that you lash out in ignorance like some primitive.


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## candycorn (Apr 21, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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The games are meaningless.  Its the nature of something being a game. 



Unkotare said:


> Just because your life experiences and limited intelligence prevent you from seeing the meaning in competitive sport, this does not indicate that such meaning is not there. All money could be spent on other resources, but some money will be spent on sports no matter how bitter your impotence grows.



So you can't come up with any reason other than some ephemeral meaning you attach to games that many spectators cannot recall a few days later. 

Thanks.


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## candycorn (Apr 22, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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Motivation should come from within. If sports teaches you anything it is that.  You can't be motivated to beat a classmate?

Community?  How does a sports team build community?  It may build commarodarie (sp?) within the team but it doesn't build "community"

Commitment?  You can't be committed to beating a classmate?


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## SweetSue92 (Apr 22, 2019)

candycorn said:


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There is so much stunning ignorance in this string of posts it almost takes my breath away. 

Just for one nugget: "games no one remembers a few days later". Yeah. That's why there are sports networks dedicated to playing and re-playing games people are still talking about decades later. That's why people save up money and spend their precious money on all kinds of "game" stuff.

You're like one of those people who don't "get it" and so moan about why it is, instead of ATTEMPTING to get it. Sucks to be you.


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## gtopa1 (Apr 22, 2019)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


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I don't accept that. My parents and many of my parents' friends were very conservative and valued education and hard work. It seems that those who didn't value Education were usually mushy lazy types who were into handouts. There weren't many of them at my school(Catholic) but it was very noticeable at the local State High School where some of my friends at the time went. Now I am told by some old timers that the State Schools of old were just as conservative as my Alma mater but that all changed in the 80s when they got rid of strict rules and corporal punishment. It was when many trendy teaching ideas began to infiltrate the Ed system. That was when I began going to those Parent/Teacher Assn. meets. I was stunned when some wanted to bring in sex education in PRIMARY SCHOOL!! I suggested that if kids knew too much they were being groomed so the Police should be called. Many agreed but a few were horrified. Unfortunately the "horrified" seemed to have their ideas implemented even though they were not the general view. 

Just some thoughts.

Greg


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## gtopa1 (Apr 22, 2019)

candycorn said:


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Chalk is cheap. Weekend PTA painting sprees work well. Fixing stuff by parents is often done. Drive a few kids around? Why is that a problem? I've driven up to a thousand miles for a single weekend of footy when younger ..admittedly not at school but a more usual sports day at school was under 40 miles return(usually much less).

Greg


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## candycorn (Apr 22, 2019)

SweetSue92 said:


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They replay high school football games on sports networks?  Yep...you're exhibiting the stunning ignorance.


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## gtopa1 (Apr 22, 2019)

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We bloody well were. We wanted to be as near the top as possible in a red raw meat for breakfast manner. We were highly competitive but also took that fact that we might not be the smartest or best in our stride. being a bitch to someone who got better marks was frankly a sign of poor character. Sometimes going from twelfth to seventh is a damn fine effort. 


Greg


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## candycorn (Apr 22, 2019)

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Yep...that is on your dime. 

The taxpayers who are paying for 3 or 4 busses transporting kids to play a meaningless game hundreds of miles away are getting shafted; especially when they school needs that revenue for other purposes.  

I'm certainly not against physical education.  You just don't need to travel across the state (or even across the county) to play another team.  In the example I listed earlier, this one school drove their caravan 1,500 miles or so.  And they played more home games than most of the schools since they had the home field advantage being the higher seed in the playoffs.


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## candycorn (Apr 22, 2019)

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And if you hadn't been on that team or whatever, you likely would have turned out the be the same lowlife you are today.  Clearly whatever benefits derived didn't include you learning very much.


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## gtopa1 (Apr 22, 2019)

candycorn said:


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How big a team are we talking about?? That's 200 kids??

Greg


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## SweetSue92 (Apr 22, 2019)

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You're missing the point on purpose because you can't debate the larger point. Because you've already lost.


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## Marion Morrison (Apr 22, 2019)

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Seriously, just because you have some deep-seated abnormal problem with team sports doesn't mean they aren't beneficial to developing children. Always picked last for Red Rover were you? Apparently the whole country disagrees with you and has for decades, so you can fuck off with that idiocy.


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## gtopa1 (Apr 22, 2019)

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Now that's a bit snaky, scumsuckingcretin!! Not that I wish to be unkind to a low functioning imbecile like your good self. Maybe I could send you a link to my mother's hairdresser; he's a genius and could even make YOU look presentable.



Greg


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## candycorn (Apr 22, 2019)

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The team, the band, the equipment....  Call it 2 buses if you want.  The point is sending kids to play meaningless games all around the State is a waste of money.


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## candycorn (Apr 22, 2019)

SweetSue92 said:


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You brought up sports networks and replays.  

That doesn't apply to high school sports.  Because the games are meaningless.  The Sugar Bowl is big money for the universities that play in it and it defrays some of the money wasted on fielding a football team.  The Class 1 Missouri High School Football Championship?  Total waste of money for the districts.


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## candycorn (Apr 22, 2019)

Marion Morrison said:


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What ever you say fuck stain.


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## Marion Morrison (Apr 22, 2019)

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But the students, staff, and parents enjoy it, so Fuck You!


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## gtopa1 (Apr 22, 2019)

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Do the kids chip in for the travel? I know they do here.

Greg


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## Marion Morrison (Apr 22, 2019)

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Yes. They have fundraisers and all that.


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## gtopa1 (Apr 22, 2019)

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What do the kids think about it?

Greg


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## gtopa1 (Apr 22, 2019)

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I've seen local schools here have fund raisers for their sports teams. 

Greg


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## gtopa1 (Apr 22, 2019)

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> Boston, MA – A new NPR/Robert Wood Johnson Foundation/Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health poll finds that although almost three in four adults played sports when they were younger (73%), only one in four (25%) continue to play sports as adults.
> 
> But that decline in interest doesn’t stop parents from encouraging their children to make sports a part of their lives. In fact, almost nine in ten parents whose middle school or high school aged child plays sports (89%) say that their child benefits a great deal or quite a bit from participating in sports.
> 
> ...



https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/p...-played-sports-when-young-but-few-still-play/

Seems most parents are not with you on this. Are you a couch slug??

Greg


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## gtopa1 (Apr 22, 2019)

candycorn said:


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> “Sports are a critical component of a healthy community. They help children and adults maintain a healthy weight, teach acceptance and teamwork, and expand opportunity for children living in poverty,” said Risa Lavizzo-Mourey, MD, President and CEO of the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. “This poll indicates that we must continue to encourage children to play sports, but just as important, we must find ways to keep adults engaged in sports in order to maintain health and well-being.”



From that same article. Seems you want sluggards and porkies. 

Greg


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## candycorn (Apr 22, 2019)

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We certainly didn't when I played sports in high school.  We certainly didn't when we went to academic competitions.


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## candycorn (Apr 22, 2019)

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Who cares?


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## Marion Morrison (Apr 22, 2019)

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Well, I sure hope you weren't on the debate team, because you just lost that debate.


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## candycorn (Apr 22, 2019)

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Don't be stupid.

Sports are important.  Traveling across the state to play them isn't. 
The games that are played are meaningless once they get there.  Play your classmates.  Same activities, same "lessons" learned, same calories burned....


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## candycorn (Apr 22, 2019)

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Again, all that can be learned without traveling 1,500 miles in a season.


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## candycorn (Apr 22, 2019)

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What ever you say fuck stain.  Kids probably want chocolate cake 3 times a day too.


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## gtopa1 (Apr 22, 2019)

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Were you really good at ringing the bell??

Greg


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## gtopa1 (Apr 22, 2019)

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1500 miles is frankly hardly a bloody weekend drive here. lol

But yes; if the kids don't WANT to do it then they don't have to play. Why is that a problem for you, low functioning idiot?

Greg


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## candycorn (Apr 22, 2019)

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You seem to be missing the point.
I'd like to think you're pretending to be dense.
But we both know you're not pretending.


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## sparky (Apr 22, 2019)

SweetSue92 said:


> Biggest concern:
> 
> Mental health crisis and its impact on our students and education.



I'd love an explanation of how the current generation of kids are somehow having a crisis?



sealybobo said:


> Why invest money for some kid to become a musician? How does that help us out?
> 
> But sports are important. Kids are too soft. Gym should continue to be a part of school. In case we ever have a war.



what about the 101st bagpipe battalion?







Unkotare said:


> If you were an accomplished musician and I (for some foolish reason) tried to denigrate music instruction in school as a waste of time - a position obviously informed in large part by my own inexperience with music - then your opinion would be more valid than mine, and if I had a lick of sense I would listen to you about something you know much more about than I do.



i'm a musician , no i'm _not_ going to quit my day job, thx.

But this sports/arts thing is_ obviously _skewed.  

Let me put it this way, i learned to wrestle and play music {_insert any art form_} in HS, which do you think you'll be able to do middle aged?





gtopa1 said:


> Chalk is cheap



the _h*ll_ it is, our school budget is insane here

~S~


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## gtopa1 (Apr 22, 2019)

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Not the same standard attained. Not the same commitment, not the same satisfaction.

Greg


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## gtopa1 (Apr 22, 2019)

sparky said:


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So how much do they spend on chalk? It's quite cheap here. I buy it for the grandkids. 

Greg


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## Unkotare (Apr 22, 2019)

sparky said:


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Both


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## gtopa1 (Apr 22, 2019)

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My dad was one of those East European wrestler types. When we were kids he taught my brothers and me how to wrestle properly. I never lost a fight but never actually hurt anyone seriously(pride maybe). Now I still know the moves and teach the grandkids. It's a healthy sport and is excellent for self defense. I do wish I had continued my guitar training but alas it was not to be. But I encouraged the kids and littlies as much as I can. 

But dad being an Eastern Euro EDUCATION was the main event, especially the Maths and Sciences. I did develop a reading habit very young so am an avid reader but I can't stand modern writing. Give me the classics any day.

Greg


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## sealybobo (Apr 22, 2019)

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Bullshit. For some reason every year we had a tournament in Holt, Michigan. Google how far novi, Michigan is from holt. 

At least we could limit our travel to just our district. 

If they were serious about saving money they’d rethink the long travel


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## sealybobo (Apr 22, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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Michigan


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## sealybobo (Apr 22, 2019)

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But then you won’t get the competition.

The varsity guys have no competition in their own schools.


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## sealybobo (Apr 22, 2019)

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How good you are


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## sealybobo (Apr 22, 2019)

SweetSue92 said:


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Well she does have a good point. Right after a big game I always feel a little silly. Okay my team won, or lost. So what? I was just so emotionally involved a minute ago but now it seems silly unless you’re on the team.


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## sealybobo (Apr 22, 2019)

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So true. I never hurt anyone in a fight after I learned to wrestle. A wrestler knows when he’s got his opponent down. Now I may smack them to embarrass them or scissor squeeze their stomach while I ask them what they were thinking.

I learned how to play guitar when I was 35.


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## candycorn (Apr 22, 2019)

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You don't sweat as much to maintain a healthy weight unless you're playing someone from a different school?  

I didn't make the laws of physics but I'm pretty sure they would agree that you do.


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## candycorn (Apr 22, 2019)

sealybobo said:


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Sure they do...other varsity guys.


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## Unkotare (Apr 22, 2019)

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Have you noticed a lot of people who know the subject better than you trying to inform you while you just repeat your uninformed bias over and over again? Shouldn’t that tell you something?


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## rightwinger (Apr 22, 2019)

Do teachers really goof off all summer and do nothing when they get home at 3:30?


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## candycorn (Apr 22, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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No. I have noticed people preaching the same false bromides that you did.  Quick question: do you recall what your high school volleyball team’s record was in your sophomore year?  Probably not. Those who played probably do not recall it either? Because the competitions do not matter.  Five years from now, the games played tonight will be forgotten.  

The physical fitness will (hopefully) linger on.  The scores?  No.  The records?  No.  Your silly argument that they do?  It will still be silly 5 years from now.  

The same physical fitness can be achieved by playing others from the same school in the school’s gymnasium.  

But please try to convince us (as the others have) that somehow playing a person in a different colored jersey is somehow more meaningful.  It’s a good source of laughter.


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## depotoo (Apr 22, 2019)

When they travel across state it is usually for title games.  Unless they get that far, it doesn’t happen.  And yes, those games are particularly remembered for decades afterwards.
Sports also makes those kids work even harder, because if they don’t make the grades, they don’t play.  It teaches them community, how to work together to achieve a goal.  They learn to fundraise, to focus, time management skills, etc.  they learn the power of working hard to achieve a goal, etc.  they become more well rounded, and healthier.
Your idea of playing your own student body over and over, teaches no skills, after a couple of games.  They learn each other’s strengths and weaknesses and never are challenged.  And if you think it would lower costs, you’re nuts.  Another coach would have to be hired, as you can’t have the same coach for two teams playing each other.  
51% of kids that played competitive sports go on to earn over $60 grand a year.

The Greatest High School Football Game Ever - D Magazine
1994 John Tyler vs. Plano East high school football game - Wikipedia
The greatest high school football game. Ever.



candycorn said:


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## sealybobo (Apr 22, 2019)

candycorn said:


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I would have never reached my potential in wrestling had I just stayed inside my own high school.  

I agree stay close but you have to wrestle other schools.  One week they come to you, one week you go to another school.  But stay close to cut down on gas.  Then at the end of the year there is a district tournament for everyone local.  Whoever wins moves on to the next week, regionals.  At this point the coach can drive the kids in a minivan.  Then the state tournament.  I went with the 2 coaches and me to the state finals.  

At least you have to find out who the best of the best is.  But that's just once at the end of the year.  Districts is close, regionals might be a little farther and everyone goes to the Kellogg Center for the State finals


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## rightwinger (Apr 22, 2019)

sealybobo said:


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Wrestlers were sick freaks in my HS

Doing bizarre things to make weight. Coaches didn’t care as long as they made weight


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## candycorn (Apr 22, 2019)

sealybobo said:


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Essentially that is what I’m saying.  My high school played games in what they call the “golden triangle” over in SE Texas (Beaumont).  The round trip from the high school was about 200 miles from Houston.  There are something like 70 high schools in the Houston area that are in the same division that they could have played.


But while we’re on the topic…I don’t see the point in any of it really.

A).  A student not reaching their potential as a wrestler or swimmer or discus thrower is hardly a mortal setback for that kid.  

B). If you’re a serious wrestler, or swimmer, or discus thrower….you have alternatives that do not necessitate the District fielding a swimming team or track team or whatever.  

C). If you’re the best ________ in your school, that would mean that every other athlete in that sport is competing against a superior athlete and is “reaching their potential”.  So what’s the problem?


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## candycorn (Apr 22, 2019)

Okay, who was your State HS wrestling champion in 2009?  I’m sure you must remember since it is so important.  Not a wresting fan?  Oh, okay….who was your your State HS Baskeball champion in 2009?  Still don’t remember? Neither does anyone else.  Those that do accidentally recall it likely don’t remember much.  

Thanks for proving my point.  

As for the playing one another…if you’re on the losing team, you mix up the teams, you try different strategies, you learn that you can’t rely on the star athlete to bail you out and that other players have to step up.  That would actually teach children to work harder to achieve a goal.  

It’s far better than taking a 70 mile bus ride to play a meaningless game most will quickly forget—just as you’re clueless about who the champions were in 2009.

Spending less saves money. Common sense. 



depotoo said:


> When they travel across state it is usually for title games.  Unless they get that far, it doesn’t happen.  And yes, those games are particularly remembered for decades afterwards.
> Sports also makes those kids work even harder, because if they don’t make the grades, they don’t play.  It teaches them community, how to work together to achieve a goal.  They learn to fundraise, to focus, time management skills, etc.  they learn the power of working hard to achieve a goal, etc.  they become more well rounded, and healthier.
> Your idea of playing your own student body over and over, teaches no skills, after a couple of games.  They learn each other’s strengths and weaknesses and never are challenged.  And if you think it would lower costs, you’re nuts.  Another coach would have to be hired, as you can’t have the same coach for two teams playing each other.
> 51% of kids that played competitive sports go on to earn over $60 grand a year.
> ...


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## depotoo (Apr 22, 2019)

Well, you achieved your objective, to keep this from being about what teachers face in the classroom.  High five yourself.





candycorn said:


> Okay, who was your State HS wrestling champion in 2009?  I’m sure you must remember since it is so important.  Not a wresting fan?  Oh, okay….who was your your State HS Baskeball champion in 2009?  Still don’t remember? Neither does anyone else.  Those that do accidentally recall it likely don’t remember much.
> 
> Thanks for proving my point.
> 
> ...


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## depotoo (Apr 22, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Do teachers really goof off all summer and do nothing when they get home at 3:30?


Having teachers in the family, they have long days and summers, yes, for a short while, (not all summer) get to recover from the school year dealing with the demands of students and parents.  The rest of the summer is dealing with meetings, lesson plans, etc. for the coming year.


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## Unkotare (Apr 22, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Do teachers really goof off all summer and do nothing when they get home at 3:30?




No.


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## Unkotare (Apr 22, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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Yeah, they can’t do that anymore. There are rules in place to prevent hard cutting.


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## Unkotare (Apr 22, 2019)

depotoo said:


> Well, you achieved your objective, to keep this from being about what teachers face in the classroom.  High five yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...







And despite all the bizarre bitterness, sport will continue to be an important part of education and American culture.


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## rightwinger (Apr 22, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
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> > Do teachers really goof off all summer and do nothing when they get home at 3:30?
> ...



What do they do?
I remember when I was in HS in the 70s. Teachers made the same claim about how hard they worked in the off hours

I saw most grading papers in free periods. I had after school activities so I saw them leave 15 min after the last bell and they didn’t seem to carry much with them

When my kids went to school, I saw many more computerized work that mostly graded itself. 

How much work does a gym teacher, music or art teacher take home with them?


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## rightwinger (Apr 22, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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Good to hear. I saw wrestlers doing some dangerous things to make weight. Coach would tell them he wanted them to wrestle in a lower weight class next week and it was up to the wrestler to do what was necessary


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## sealybobo (Apr 22, 2019)

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My coach knew I was wearing plastics underneath 5 sweatshirts.  That wasn't allowed but for me no big deal because I was still healthy at 150 pounds.  In fact I was metro detroit powerlifting champ that year.  505 deadlift, 405 squat and 350 bench press.  You don't lift that kind of weight unless you are a healthy boy.  Thin I wasn't.  I was a beast!


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## sealybobo (Apr 22, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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I know teachers in the dog park.  They aren't working that much from home.  They get tons of time off and glow/brag about it when we make comments.  And they don't take second jobs in the summer.  Still they make what $70K?  Ridiculous.  Even $60K is plenty.  If I made $60K and had summers off I certainly wouldn't work summers unless I loved the summer gig.  

My sister in law doesn't work in the summer.  She buys a ticket to Greece and she's there for at least 3 months.  She's gonna get a pension so she doesn't have to save money.

Yes, teachers made more when we were growing up.  Guys like Unkotare don't realize by voting Republican they've voted to cut teachers wages.  Unions are being broken/challenged.  Unions are powerless.  Can't even strike anymore.  The teachers union is next and he thinks he will do better once unions are gone?  God I wish the GOP would break the teachers unions.


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## sealybobo (Apr 22, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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Besides wearing plastics (illegal) on top of 5 sweatshirts I would chew tobacco and spit a lot.  And not eat very much.  But I always ate something and I always had 1 day a week I would eat like a pig.  Cheat day.


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## rightwinger (Apr 22, 2019)

sealybobo said:


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I used to see them loading up on laxitives and forcing themselves to puke before weigh in


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## sealybobo (Apr 22, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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Why would they eat before weigh in?  Dummies.  

I remember eating after weigh in and I almost lost the match I was so loaded with spagetti and meat sauce.  Probably the worst thing they could have fed us right before a match but who knew in the 1980's?


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## sealybobo (Apr 22, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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I love it that Republicans used the Great Recession to really stick it to teachers like Unkotare and that other Republican/Teacher lady on these boards who votes Republican because of abortion.  

Why America's Teachers Haven't Been Getting Raises

It's not just educators in West Virginia and Oklahoma who have watched their wages and benefits erode since the Great Recession.

Larry Cagle is angry. At 54 years of age, he makes $34,500 a year teaching critical-reading skills to public high-school students in Tulsa, Oklahoma. “I do construction and lawn maintenance in the summer” to make ends meet, he said. “I moved here from Florida five years ago, and in Florida I made $25,000 a year more.”

He talked about the number of public-school teachers he knew working second jobs on nights and weekends, flipping burgers or hauling luggage at the airport. Teachers digging into their own pockets to pay for students’ basic needs and classroom supplies. Teachers living in cars, taking out loans, panhandling for more money, struggling to pay their own bills. “My school is one of the highest-performing schools in the state,” he said, estimating that two in three of the teachers he had worked with in the past half decade had left for other jobs or retired. “These are primary positions, not ancillary positions. This is math, science, foreign language, arts, history. We had two teachers who just walked out [and quit] recently.”


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## sealybobo (Apr 22, 2019)

SweetSue92 said:


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Read this.  Do you know what this says?  This says that union you are in protected you from taking major pay cuts or being fired.  You should thank god for the union that you don't pay into but still defends your sorry ass.

Because of the stable nature of government employment, teachers were spared the worst of the layoffs and wage cuts that afflicted private businesses in the Great Recession. That said, these jobs have not rebounded in the same way that many private-sector ones have.  You can't have it both ways.  You want a safe government job but you also want to make what we in the private sector make?  

Granted, by many measures and in many places, teaching remains a solidly middle-class profession. Government data shows that the average teacher earns about $59,000 a year, with many school districts offering good benefits and generous retirement plans. Andrew Biggs, an economist at the conservative American Enterprise Institute, pushed against the notion that teachers are broadly underpaid. “It’s a good and a very family-friendly job,” citing its reasonable hours and long summer break. “Why should you pay them more?


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## Unkotare (Apr 22, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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 I am really old school, and we Wayback in the day it was pretty crazy. We used to do some very unadvisable things to make weight. When I was in college I remember hearing of two or three kids who died when they went into renal failure.


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## Unkotare (Apr 22, 2019)

sealybobo said:


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 Unimpeachable source that the dog park is aside, all of that is ridiculously untrue. People love to talk about things that they know nothing about.


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## Unkotare (Apr 22, 2019)

In real wrestling in the real 1980s in Division I NCAA, we would weigh in the night before a match. This encouraged all manner of unhealthy practices in order to cut weight, and then the nearly equally unhealthy practice of gorging oneself right after weigh ins  to try and pack on as much before the actual match began. We had an agreement with a pizza place on campus and every time we would weigh-in We could eat as much as we wanted free of charge. Looking back on it now, it was all pretty disgusting. Angry emaciated very very hungry wrestlers diving in like wild animals to greasy pizza and piles of spaghetti and subs and just random chunks of meat like some kind of caveman feeding frenzy. And for any of you who are familiar with biology, you can guess what happened a lot right after that. Sometimes I would step on the mat  almost 30 pounds heavier than what I had weighed in just the night before. Doing this over and over and over again for years and years did not have a beneficial effect on health and physiology. But you do what you Gotta do.


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## sealybobo (Apr 22, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


You mean it's impossible there are teachers who don't take that much work home with them?  

It's impossible they don't have second jobs?  

What's untrue Unk?


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## SweetSue92 (Apr 22, 2019)

sealybobo said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



You have a chip on your shoulder about teachers and also say really, deeply ignorant things about education. Stunningly ignorant things.

I don't belong to the NEA or, of course, my local union and I don't want to speak to you about education.


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## Unkotare (Apr 22, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> depotoo said:
> 
> 
> > Well, you achieved your objective, to keep this from being about what teachers face in the classroom.  High five yourself.
> ...




 And the frustrated impotent awkward uncoordinated weaklings who are so threatened by sport and all of the great American traditions associated with it will just have to eat shit.


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## sealybobo (Apr 22, 2019)

SweetSue92 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > SweetSue92 said:
> ...



I don't.  I have a chip on my shoulder regarding conservative teachers who don't realize they are why their pay isn't enough, dumb fucker.


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## sealybobo (Apr 22, 2019)

SweetSue92 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > SweetSue92 said:
> ...



I don't say the things about teachers I just repeat

Why America's Teachers Haven't Been Getting Raises

The successful two-week-long strike of public-school workers in West Virginia—as well as the imminent strike of teachers in Oklahoma, led by grassroots activists, including Cagle—has thrown into relief the financial difficulties that thousands of education professionals face. Yet those difficulties are not unique to those two states. Despite the perception that educator jobs are unionized, pay decently well, and are guaranteed-tenure, hundreds of thousands of American teachers have seen their wages and benefits erode in recent years, more so than for many other types of workers.

It's true many of you didn't lose your jobs during the recession because you are unionized.  But your pay also hasn't gone up because you are a government union employee.

Because of the stable nature of government employment, such employees were largely spared the worst of the layoffs and wage cuts that afflicted private businesses. That said, these jobs have not rebounded in the same way that many private-sector ones have, either, with public finances still squeezed, public workforces still smaller than their pre-recession peak, and local government officials still hesitant to make critical investments in their workforces and infrastructure.

These teachers should be fired for striking.  And striking is the only way you'll ever get a raise lady so I hope they break the unions and cut out the old hags like you who are too old and burned out and ugly.


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## candycorn (Apr 22, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> depotoo said:
> 
> 
> > Well, you achieved your objective, to keep this from being about what teachers face in the classroom.  High five yourself.
> ...



We agree it isn’t going anywhere. What you can’t justify is the outsized costs of the sports. It’s okay…nobody can.


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## Unkotare (Apr 22, 2019)

candycorn said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > depotoo said:
> ...






 Justifies itself, as has been explained to you many many times on this thread.


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## candycorn (Apr 22, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > depotoo said:
> ...



Just asking you to justify the costs.  Forty posts later….all you have offered is insults in place of facts.


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## candycorn (Apr 22, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



Wow… Imagine if you hadn’t played high school sports.  I’m sure a response like that would have been much less insipid.  Oh wait… you did and it is.


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## SweetSue92 (Apr 22, 2019)

sealybobo said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



But yet you complain your sister in law is paid TOO MUCH.


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## SweetSue92 (Apr 22, 2019)

sealybobo said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



You're a wonderful liberal. Really, you're perfect. 

"Old, burned out and ugly."

Yep, that's perfect. You make a great case for what qualifies a person to be a teacher. You're as ignorant as I suspected--more so, actually.


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## candycorn (Apr 22, 2019)

Those who believe it’s necessary to spend taxpayer money to send kids 300 miles (round trip) to play a soccer match or take part in a badminton tournament  probably also believe this idiocy from the Girl Scouts about their cookies….




 

Yeah…  Selling cookies outside of Wal*Mart teaches you business ethics!!!!


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## sparky (Apr 22, 2019)

sealybobo said:


> I learned how to play guitar when I was 35.



I had my first lesson 50 odd years ago, stil play, and play out, i could eat for a week off one gig

I highly doubt my wrestling skills would grant me the same

~S~


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## rightwinger (Apr 22, 2019)

candycorn said:


> Those who believe it’s necessary to spend taxpayer money to send kids 300 miles (round trip) to play a soccer match or take part in a badminton tournament  probably also believe this idiocy from the Girl Scouts about their cookies….
> 
> View attachment 257318
> 
> Yeah…  Selling cookies outside of Wal*Mart teaches you business ethics!!!!



They make a fortune off of those little girls and their obsessive parents


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## candycorn (Apr 22, 2019)

sparky said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > I learned how to play guitar when I was 35.
> ...



Great on the guitar part.  The sports I played in HS were fun and the hobbies I learned are fantastic.  Sports, hobbies, and competition are important.  What isn’t important is the final score.  What isn’t necessary is shipping a kid across the state to participate.


You learn discipline and techniques (or at least I did) from coaches, strategies from mentors, and teamwork if you’re on a team.  You can learn that on campus


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## candycorn (Apr 22, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Those who believe it’s necessary to spend taxpayer money to send kids 300 miles (round trip) to play a soccer match or take part in a badminton tournament  probably also believe this idiocy from the Girl Scouts about their cookies….
> ...




Yes they do.


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## sparky (Apr 22, 2019)

One can learn disciple and technique , with similar mentors in the arts Candy

Fact is, the field is every bit as competitive

~S~


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## Unkotare (Apr 22, 2019)

candycorn said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



Why?


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## Unkotare (Apr 22, 2019)

sparky said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > I learned how to play guitar when I was 35.
> ...




Depends on the skills.


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## Unkotare (Apr 22, 2019)

candycorn said:


> sparky said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...




What a surprise...


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 22, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> Anyone interested in a serious discussion about education? Any non-educators have any questions about what really goes on in the classroom instead of stereotypes and assumptions? Any educators want to share stories from the front lines? Anything?



Yes. Why not start teaching a foreign language in pre-k? Why not start teaching Excel in 9th grade? Why don’t you teach skills like networking, public speaking, and negotiation?

Thank you


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## Unkotare (Apr 22, 2019)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone interested in a serious discussion about education? Any non-educators have any questions about what really goes on in the classroom instead of stereotypes and assumptions? Any educators want to share stories from the front lines? Anything?
> ...



Good idea. Some kids get that at home.


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## sparky (Apr 23, 2019)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Yes. Why not start teaching a foreign language in pre-k?



mandarin might be helpful soon...



AzogtheDefiler said:


> Why don’t you teach skills like networking, public speaking, and negotiation?



2nd that....





~S~


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## sealybobo (Apr 23, 2019)

sparky said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > I learned how to play guitar when I was 35.
> ...


I’m only into sports because it toughens up young men who otherwise only play with iPads.


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## sealybobo (Apr 23, 2019)

SweetSue92 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > SweetSue92 said:
> ...



Do you think the same thing about Don Jr. yes or no?  

Donald Trump, Jr. referred to teachers as "losers" at a campaign event.

And yet you voted for Trump after at his rallies his son called you teachers losers?  

So lady, spare me your fake outrage.  You are a political hack who only cares about banning abortion.  You'd even sacrifice your own financial security unknowingly no doubt but still you ignore the obvious that Republicans would lower your pay if they could.  And they'd take away all the protections you have.  You would shit if you had to work the way we work.  You government employees don't even know how good you got it.  Lucky half of you didn't lose your jobs during the recession.

Let me guess you also don't believe in global warmring or evolution too right?

Notice a pattern?  You'll go along with anything they say because you are a 1 issue voter.


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## candycorn (Apr 23, 2019)

sealybobo said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



Like all trump supporters…they believe what they are told to believe.  Having zero self esteem, they can’t risk having their own opinion.

Teachers (and yes even Athletic Coaches) do a great service for the nation and get paid very little relative to the impact they have on the future.  I just don’t think that it is fiscally responsible to ship kids on a 300 mile road trip to play a meaningless game when they could burn the same calories, learn the same techniques, and learn the same lessons on campus.  If you don’t reach your potential as a wrestler or tennis player, I’m not sure it’s the job of Public Schools to address that.


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## candycorn (Apr 23, 2019)

sparky said:


> One can learn disciple and technique , with similar mentors in the arts Candy
> 
> Fact is, the field is every bit as competitive
> 
> ~S~



I fully agree.  It’s more important in the arts than athletics.  In track for example, running the race as fast as you can is pretty much the goal. Seldom does playing the guitar or painting as fast as you can render favorable results.  

I was simply pointing out that sports is important.  Shipping kids on a 300 mile road trip to participate in a meaningless game is not fiscally responsible.


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## Unkotare (Apr 23, 2019)

candycorn said:


> sparky said:
> 
> 
> > One can learn disciple and technique , with similar mentors in the arts Candy
> ...





The United States disagrees with you, and always will.


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## sealybobo (Apr 23, 2019)

candycorn said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > SweetSue92 said:
> ...



Like I said the other day, I'm fine with keeping it local to keep the costs down.  We use to drive 62 miles every year to Holt MI for a tournament.  I agree there is no reason for the schools to be driving the kids so far away.  They could do it smarter and closer.

The only time you should have to travel outside your district is when you make it to regionals and states.  

P.S.  Without wrestling I would have never got into college. In fact I got in the same way those rich kids got into college on a sports waiver.


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## sealybobo (Apr 23, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > sparky said:
> ...


I bet if gas would have stayed above $4 a gallon you'd be wrong.  Schools would suddenly start rethinking their schedules.  Instead of driving 60 miles to a tournament, the farthest you will drive is 15 miles to one of the other schools in your district.


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## sealybobo (Apr 23, 2019)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone interested in a serious discussion about education? Any non-educators have any questions about what really goes on in the classroom instead of stereotypes and assumptions? Any educators want to share stories from the front lines? Anything?
> ...



Schools are doing it the same way they did it 200 years ago.  Do you think their methods are outdated?  Of course they are.  But good luck telling a teacher who's stuck in their ways that they aren't doing it right or could do it better.  We need to train the new teachers to do better.  They should get better results than unkotare and sweetsue92 are getting.

Hillary was wrong they aren't deplorable.  They're losers

Before Trump Jr. Calls Me a 'Loser Teacher,' How About He Steps Inside My Classroom?


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## sealybobo (Apr 23, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > sparky said:
> ...



What a dumb comeback.  That's like if I said the government spends too much money and you came back and said, "the United States disagrees with you, and always will"

So just because schools waste a lot of money that does not mean the USA agrees with you nor does it mean this will always be the way we do things unkotare.

In fact if Republicans had their way you wouldn't have a wrestling program at all.

*Personal attack edited out.*


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## Unkotare (Apr 23, 2019)

Athletics and education are inextricably connected and always - ALWAYS will be.

As they should be.


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## sealybobo (Apr 23, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> Athletics and education are inextricably connected and always - ALWAYS will be.
> 
> As they should be.



Are you sure or are you just talking out of your ass?  

Then the question becomes, which sports are important.  My nephews go to the best private school in the state.  That school doesn't have a wrestling program.

My buddy went to a big college in Colorado that didn't have a wrestling program.  Either Colorado U or Univerity of Colorado Bolder?  

Some sports that are money makers will stay but some sports like wrestling they will do away with.

I almost went to Northern Michigan University.  The year I graduated high school they dropped their wrestling program.

Have you heard that for the big schools like University of Michigan sports are a money maker but for smaller schools like Eastern Michigan University they actually cost the students more to have those programs?  Schools like Eastern might one day drop their athletics.  

So UofM and MSU might always have mens football and basketball because they make money but all the other sports may one day be taken out.

Athletics cost colleges, students millions

College Student Fees: Unnecessary or Essential?

The cost of college has reached shockingly, appallingly, disturbingly high levels, and there are no new adverbs left to describe the staggering amount of money needed to pursue a four-year degree. A recent report by Robert Kelchen, an assistant professor at Seton Hall University, reveals that student fees are 20% of the total cost of tuition at the average four-year public college or university.

Many schools charge student fees to cover the costs associated with having an athletic program.

I never once watched an Eastern Michigan University basketball game and only went to one football game.  It was horrible.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2019)

sealybobo said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



I teach Part Time but in college and my methodology is different than most but the feedback has been positive.


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## SweetSue92 (Apr 23, 2019)

sealybobo said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



Wait. Are you trying to get me MORE pay or are we paid too much for too little work?

You're really not too bright, are you?


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## SweetSue92 (Apr 23, 2019)

sealybobo said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



The chip on your shoulder is REALLY REALLY big, and it's sad. It makes you mean and ignorant


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## sparky (Apr 23, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> Athletics and education are inextricably connected and always - ALWAYS will be.
> 
> As they should be.



That's not the point Unkotare,  the inclusion of one doctrine does not _exclude_ or _devalue _or take precedence another 

IE~ Chess club is on par with Football

A well _rounded_ education is appropos

~S~


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## Unkotare (Apr 23, 2019)

sparky said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Athletics and education are inextricably connected and always - ALWAYS will be.
> ...





Tell that to what’s her face.


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## sparky (Apr 23, 2019)

methinks she has me on ignore , or should have.....~S~


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## sealybobo (Apr 23, 2019)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


I’m not dogging teachers so much as the entire process. When we graduate high school or even college are we ready to interview? Do we know what we want to do? What exactly did we learn in those electives, social sciences, even math and English. Was it geared towards modern day life? Work? I remember pottery class. What was that all about? Or I remember a class on the Greek gods. An entire class on that. It’s crazy.

Anyways, I don’t feel like the 120 credits I got were very meaningful. A big waste of time if you ask me. Now sure you can make the argument each of those classes taught me something but let’s be honest, what a scam.

The business school was no joke but I was a horrible student yet a brilliant salesperson. You’d never know it in college.

I remember psychology of sex. That was a 3 credit hour course. What a joke.


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## sparky (Apr 23, 2019)

So.....wuts wrong with keeping it all to the 3 R's Sealy?

~S~


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## Weatherman2020 (Apr 23, 2019)

candycorn said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...


Money is never the issue with education. California spends more each year than other nations total GDP and those nations have better educated kids coming out.


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## sparky (Apr 23, 2019)

ah!...brains for the buck


well one could see THAT commin'....




~S~


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## sealybobo (Apr 23, 2019)

sparky said:


> So.....wuts wrong with keeping it all to the 3 R's Sealy?
> 
> ~S~


I think we should end public schools and anyone who has a kid can either send them to private school or have them sign up for online classes and kill the brick and mortar schools.

We can pay one unkotare to teach hundreds of kids around the state online for much cheaper than outdated teachers cost. Kids do everything online so go to school online.

Rich kids can go to private schools. Free school will be online in th3 future


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## sparky (Apr 23, 2019)

sealybobo said:


> sparky said:
> 
> 
> > So.....wuts wrong with keeping it all to the 3 R's Sealy?
> ...



well.....i'll _assume_ Unkotare a somewhat progressive sort Sealy , but what does it say when $$$ buys a _better_ education?

~S~


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## emilynghiem (Apr 23, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> Anyone interested in a serious discussion about education? Any non-educators have any questions about what really goes on in the classroom instead of stereotypes and assumptions? Any educators want to share stories from the front lines? Anything?



Hi Unkotare
2-3 things I'd recommend to improve what is being taught in schools and how
1. First I'd recommend reducing class size and student:teacher ratio.
I believe this will improve as districts figure out that by training and screening people more effectively, more people will be helped before their problems result in crimes. The fewer get sent to jail or prison, that's 50K a person that can be saved and invested in schools. We can train more teachers, doctors and nurses with that money, so we
will invest more in schools and education, save more money to hire
more teachers, and reduce the class sizes so teaching is more effective and fewer students drop out because they get help in time
before any issues escalate as they do now for lack of support.

2. I would implement civics education, and conflict resolution
or peer mediation in schools, both for students and parents.
If people learn the laws, and/or get screened for disabilities or
disorders preventing them from complying, again we can
break the cycle of crime and poverty, as well as screen
for mental and criminal illness for better intervention and treatment.

Teaching conflict resolution, and offering assistance to the public, is also necessary for equal empowerment and protection of individual rights
and interests; and would reduce abuse, crime and violence as well
by early intervention that would help with advance diagnosis of
worse conditions that require professional counseling or treatment.

3. I personally would offer to teach higher level conflict resolution
and mediation, involving diversity of religious and political beliefs.
That's a different level not everyone needs or is ready for, but I would offer that to help resolve issues to improve and reform the current legislative, partisan and judicial system.


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## Unkotare (Apr 23, 2019)

sparky said:


> ......
> 
> well.....i'll _assume_ Unkotare a somewhat progressive sort......~




I hope you're kidding.


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## Unkotare (Apr 23, 2019)

emilynghiem said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone interested in a serious discussion about education? Any non-educators have any questions about what really goes on in the classroom instead of stereotypes and assumptions? Any educators want to share stories from the front lines? Anything?
> ...




Everyone says that, but ...$$$$$$$$?????


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## Unkotare (Apr 23, 2019)

emilynghiem said:


> [.....
> 
> 2. I would implement civics education, and conflict resolution
> or peer mediation in schools.....




Already happening.


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## Unkotare (Apr 23, 2019)

emilynghiem said:


> .....
> If people learn the laws, and/or get screened for disabilities or
> disorders preventing them from complying, again we can
> break the cycle of crime and poverty, as well as screen
> ...




You don't think that's being tried all the time, everywhere? Easier said than done.


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## 80zephyr (Apr 23, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> Anyone interested in a serious discussion about education? Any non-educators have any questions about what really goes on in the classroom instead of stereotypes and assumptions? Any educators want to share stories from the front lines? Anything?



I am a non educator. Spent most of my life in construction. Now, my guess is that most teachers never spent a day working in construction, so they would tend to know very little about the inner workings of the field.

However, most of us spent at least 12 years of our lives going to school, so the inner workings of schools are not a foreign concept to us. When we question whats happening in a classroom, we already have been exposed to most of it.

Just my.02

Mark


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## Unkotare (Apr 23, 2019)

80zephyr said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone interested in a serious discussion about education? Any non-educators have any questions about what really goes on in the classroom instead of stereotypes and assumptions? Any educators want to share stories from the front lines? Anything?
> ...



No, you really haven't. A student sitting in a classroom is not an experienced educator. That's like saying you are a dentist because you've had a wisdom tooth pulled. An adult who remembers little to nothing of what they think they saw 40 years ago is not qualified to expound on pedagogy. 

And I know lots of teachers who have worked in construction.


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## emilynghiem (Apr 23, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> > .....
> ...



No Unkotare Especially not the spiritual healing to diagnose, treat and cure criminal disorders that are correctable.

I have tried to offer this solution, and very few take it seriously enough to look into the medical research studies and findings.

I find more people "conditioned" to reject this, including liberals who are railing to BAN therapy choices that have anything to do with conversion for orientation or identity.

The opposition is not only greater, but hostile and pushing for laws to censor and prohibit this approach to healing disorders. out of fear that Christians will abuse this to persecute or coerce people against their will. But anyone who studies why this process works will find it can only work because it is totally voluntary, it cannot be coerced because that is one of the abusive problems that the process is focused on healing.

As for teaching the laws, the parties have become more focused on pouring resources into ELECTIONS.  So they do not focus on public education on Constitutional laws and process.  Even the Conservative groups that do, still spend the majority of resources and media time preaching politically to vote in and vote out parties into govt.

They are NOT teaching that it is unconstitutional for parties to push their creeds through govt, but are too busy doing this themselves. so if anything they teach the very opposite of what the laws are supposed to be about.

What they teach by example keeps reinforcing the "bully takes over" method of dominance in govt instead of "equal protection of the laws" by enforcing these for all people.


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## Unkotare (Apr 23, 2019)

emilynghiem said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > emilynghiem said:
> ...





You seem a little excited. Could you simmer it down to the basics?


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## emilynghiem (Apr 24, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



In short, I don't see people focused on trying to teach civics education to empower people equally.
More people are teaching to use party power to dominate and bully as a means of power
instead of teaching, invoking and enforcing LAWS to give people equal authority of govt.


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## Unkotare (Apr 24, 2019)

emilynghiem said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > emilynghiem said:
> ...




Where are you seeing this?


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## sparky (Apr 24, 2019)

80zephyr said:


> I am a non educator. Spent most of my life in construction. Now, my guess is that most teachers never spent a day working in construction, so they would tend to know very little about the inner workings of the field.



The thing is, guidance counciling has always focused on college /no college .....trades were never an option ........trade org's have ,in recent times, approached the educational community on this...



80zephyr said:


> However, most of us spent at least 12 years of our lives going to school, so the inner workings of schools are not a foreign concept to us. *When we question whats happening in a classroom, we already have been exposed to most of it*.



More by _proxy _of having to deal with our kids in the system.   

The problem is, a _broken _system only forwards_ canned _answers 

everything is a _dead end stone wall _for parents who WANT to participate



emilynghiem said:


> More people are teaching to use party power to dominate and bully as a means of power
> instead of teaching, invoking and enforcing LAWS to give people equal authority of govt.



eerruhmmmmm.......wut????

~S~


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## Natural Citizen (Apr 24, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> Anyone interested in a serious discussion about education? Any non-educators have any questions about what really goes on in the classroom instead of stereotypes and assumptions? Any educators want to share stories from the front lines? Anything?



Nope. I already know. That's why I took mine out.


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## Unkotare (Apr 24, 2019)

Natural Citizen said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone interested in a serious discussion about education? Any non-educators have any questions about what really goes on in the classroom instead of stereotypes and assumptions? Any educators want to share stories from the front lines? Anything?
> ...





Know what?


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## 80zephyr (Apr 24, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> 80zephyr said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



I disagree. You can't be a part of something for 12 years without having an opinion of what is happening in schools. And the nice thing is, we get to compare our times there with what is happening today.

And in my opinion, schools fall short today because of a lack of discipline. Mostly because of todays parents, I suppose.

Mark


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## rightwinger (Apr 24, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Do teachers really goof off all summer and do nothing when they get home at 3:30?
> ...



If you are a second grade teacher......how much work do take home at the end of the day?


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## sealybobo (Apr 24, 2019)

Weatherman2020 said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



America spends more on healthcare and yet other nations have better healthcare systems.  

1. United Kingdom

2. Australia

3. Netherlands

4. New Zealand and Norway

6. Switzerland and Sweden

8. Germany

9. Canada

10. France

11. USA

Which countries have the best healthcare systems? | APRIL International


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## sealybobo (Apr 24, 2019)

sparky said:


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What does it say?  It's the way things are now.  My nephews go to a private school that costs $25,000 a year each.  Don't you think there should be a return on that investment?

My nephew will probably just go to Michigan State University, which is a great school, but many of his classmates are going to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Wharton.  

One thing that bugs my brother is when people try to make him feel bad about the privilege that comes with having money.  He came from nothing and won't be shamed for giving his kids all the things we couldn't afford to have.  

Other than the unfair advantage his kids have on the rest of us, I actually think we grow up to be better people.  We aren't spoiled.  BUT, tell that to Trump.  His daddy's money got him into schools he would have otherwise not gotten into.  He wasn't that smart.  But look at where he got.  He can't say money didn't help him get to where he is today.

Look at Aunt Becky.  She didn't pay all that money for no results.  Her kids would have graduated from those schools they otherwise wouldn't have gotten into.  It's like affirmative action only instead of color money is what gets them in ahead of our kids.

And yet Republicans will continue to cry about affirmative action and not the current system where the rich people's kids will take over for them when they retire because they sent them to Harvard Business School


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## sealybobo (Apr 24, 2019)

impuretrash said:


> What percentage of teachers do you reckon favor left wing politics?



Why would a teacher after going to a Trump rally vote for Trump?


*Donald Trump Jr calls teachers "Losers"*


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## Unkotare (Apr 24, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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I’m not a second grade teacher.


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## candycorn (Apr 24, 2019)

sparky said:


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Agreed.  I wouldn’t send the chess club across the state to play another school’s chess club either.


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## Unkotare (Apr 24, 2019)

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Opinion based on what?


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## Darkwind (Apr 24, 2019)

Give Me an outsiders view of our education system.  Someone or some group that has given a truly independent and unbiased look at the education system and I'll give their conclusions some serious thought.  If no such group is to be found, or will not be formed in the immediate future, I'll stick to My own conclusions regarding education and educators.

I will not solely take the word of an educator any more than I would accept the word of someone who has been accused of a crime.  Neither can be trusted to tell the truth.


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## Unkotare (Apr 24, 2019)

candycorn said:


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I would


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## Weatherman2020 (Apr 24, 2019)

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Ah yes, healthcare in the UK. Where they just let old people die and you wait 6 weeks to get emergency surgery and 6 months for non emergency surgery.


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## sparky (Apr 24, 2019)

sealybobo said:


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Interesting that son of Trump would demonize the educational system, simply for doing their job(s)

~S~


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## Unkotare (Apr 24, 2019)

Darkwind said:


> Give Me an outsiders view of our education system.  Someone or some group that has given a truly independent and unbiased look at the education system and I'll give their conclusions some serious thought.  If no such group is to be found, or will not be formed in the immediate future, I'll stick to My own conclusions regarding education and educators.
> 
> I will not solely take the word of an educator any more than I would accept the word of someone who has been accused of a crime.  Neither can be trusted to tell the truth.




So if you have a question about medicine you wouldn’t trust a doctor?


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## sealybobo (Apr 24, 2019)

Darkwind said:


> Give Me an outsiders view of our education system.  Someone or some group that has given a truly independent and unbiased look at the education system and I'll give their conclusions some serious thought.  If no such group is to be found, or will not be formed in the immediate future, I'll stick to My own conclusions regarding education and educators.
> 
> I will not solely take the word of an educator any more than I would accept the word of someone who has been accused of a crime.  Neither can be trusted to tell the truth.



University of Phoenix gets a bad rap but the whole reason why they are successful is because they found a better/different way of teaching.

You still have to take math but you only meet once a week.  Or you do it all online.  Absolutely no reason to drive/walk to and from classes like we did in traditional college.  One class at 9am, second class at 2:45.  One class meets twice a week for 45 minutes the other meets 3 times a week for a half hour.  Who the fuck has time to do that other than a kid who only has to go to class?  He certainly can't work full time and go to a traditional school.

So University of Phoenix devised a way you can come once a week and finish a 4 year degree in 2-3 years all while working full time and raising a family.  Or you can do it all on line.

Of course traditional schools trashed Phoenix until they all started doing it too.  Here is the problem.  They didn't pass on the savings to the students.  Online classes are cheap to teach but still all the schools are going to charge as much as they can.  Remember Phoenix is a for profit school so they want to make money.  You will pay more for the convenience.

Lastly, the founder of University of Phoenix also didn't like the way traditional schools taught 120 credit hours of bullshit just to get a degee.  at least half of those classes are shit.  So his approach was to teach what companies want in every class even English classes.  What does that mean?  It means meeting with teammates and working in groups, using powerpoint, giving presentations, participating in round table discussions with other working adults, writing papers.  These are things corporations appreciate about Phoenix students.  They graduate with these skills.  Most traditional schools graduate idiots with none of these skills.


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## candycorn (Apr 24, 2019)

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Yes, your lack of credentials on this topic is established. Thanks.


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## Darkwind (Apr 24, 2019)

sealybobo said:


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> ...


Yes, I know and agree.  I've looked into the online classes from all the major universities and they are all the same as UoP.  

I hold two degrees from the University of Phoenix.

But that really isn't what this thread is all about.  It is about accepting that educators are the only authoritative voice in the field of education and I simply don't buy that premise at all.  As I said to the OP, I wouldn't trust an educator to give Me the honest truth about what goes on in the classroom or the field of education any more than I would trust the word of an accused criminal.  Not because educators are dishonest, they simply think that their job is somehow holy and we should just acquiesce to their methods.

Perhaps of education hadn't been politicized it would be different, but there wasn't the stench of politics involved in the past.


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## Darkwind (Apr 24, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> Darkwind said:
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> > Give Me an outsiders view of our education system.  Someone or some group that has given a truly independent and unbiased look at the education system and I'll give their conclusions some serious thought.  If no such group is to be found, or will not be formed in the immediate future, I'll stick to My own conclusions regarding education and educators.
> ...


Doctors aren't teaching the next generation political agendas, are they?

Dismissed.


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## sealybobo (Apr 24, 2019)

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He would because like most public employees they don't worry about the costs that us tax payers have to pay.  

He would also give himself a raise even though he's probably overpaid.  I think he lives in the New England area.


*Alaska*: $85,420
*New York*: $83,360
*Connecticut*: $78,810
*California*: $77,390
*New Jersey*: $76,430
*Massachusetts*: $76,170
*Virginia*: $69,890
*Oregon*: $69,660
*Maryland*: $69,070
*Illinois*: $68,380
$76,000 is a lot to pay each teacher in MA especially considering they get summers off.

So don't wonder why an ignorant public employee in a union would have the audacity to vote GOP.  He's sitting pretty comfortably making $76,000 a year.  

At least he makes enough that this doesn't bother him as much as it bothers us who work in the private sector

*The Average* CEO *Makes* as Much Money in One Day as *the Typical Worker* Earns in a Full Year. ... *The average* pay for CEOs in the S&P 500 was nearly $14 million last year, about 6% higher than 2016. By contrast, rank-and-file *workers* earned $38,600, based on Bureau of Labor Statistics data.

Hard to complain you don't make enough when you make $70K knowing the average American makes less than $40K a year.

These are the typical ignorant Republican voters.  They got it good enough that it allows them or affords them to vote against the middle class.  

I have it better than the average American but still I'm not rich enough to vote GOP.  And I make more than the average teacher in MA.


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## sealybobo (Apr 24, 2019)

This is why I would love it if the GOP would break the teachers unions.  Too many of them don't appreciate the union and the protections they have.  They don't realize the only reason they make $70K is because of the union.


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## sealybobo (Apr 24, 2019)

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This is a ridiculous argument.  You republicans are 

anti science
anti schools
anti labor
anti media

You attack science because it tells us that the corporations are causing global warming
You attack schools because they teach evolution and you want to break the teachers unions
You attacked unions because they were the highest paid American workers.  Now you want to maga?
And you attack the media because it's a watch dog against you.  You don't want it to tell us you didn't drain the swamp you filled it with monsters.  

Stop bashing the media

The term *Fourth Estate* or *fourth power* refers to the press and news media both in explicit capacity of advocacy and implicit ability to frame political issues. Though it is not formally recognized as a part of a political system, it wields significant indirect social influence.[1]

The derivation of the term fourth estate arises from the traditional European concept of the three estates of the realm: the clergy, the nobility and the commoners. 

Stop calling it the failing New York Times.  Who else is going to expose the corruption?  

The Fourth Estate keeps government, legislators and big business in check by keeping society or the public informed. Investigative journalism plays a big part in uncovering bribery and corruption and in uncovering human rights violations. 

This is why you attack the media. It's a watch dog that will expose your corruption.  

Oh I wish the media would have told us that Bush lied us into Iraq.  It's obvious now.


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## Unkotare (Apr 24, 2019)

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Most aren’t, just like most teachers aren’t.


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## Unkotare (Apr 24, 2019)

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How so?


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## sealybobo (Apr 24, 2019)

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Now I see why you vote Republican

President Donald Trump has done something remarkable to the nation’s federal courts: he’s filled up their empty seats with clones of Vice President Mike Pence.

Whether it’s for district courts or higher-ranking appeals courts, Trump’s confirmed lifetime judges are overwhelmingly white men with records of opposing abortion, LGBTQ rights and voting rights.

A whopping 90% of Trump’s picks confirmed for appeals courts in his first two years in office were white, according to a Congressional Research Service analysis. 10% were Asian American. He didn’t confirm any African American or Hispanic circuit judges.

In that same period, 92% of his confirmed district court judges were white. 4% were Asian American, 2% were African American and 2% were Hispanic.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 24, 2019)

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Dearborn, Michigan: a divided city grappling with what it means to be Muslim and American


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## impuretrash (Apr 24, 2019)

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Their job is selling kids on socialism?


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## sealybobo (Apr 24, 2019)

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What's your point?  That was from 2017 and nothing has happened in Dearborn, MI.  Looks like this article was trying to rile up whites to vote Republican.  Center left my ass.


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## sealybobo (Apr 24, 2019)

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That government isn't the the enemy?

By teaching them the history behind the new deal?

By teaching evolution?  

What socialism?  When did teachers start teaching socialism?  And can you be more specific?  What is socialism exactly?  Free healthcare for everyone?  Medicare?  Public schools?


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 24, 2019)

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Google “Dearborn MI Sharia” and see what you get. Especially on YouTube. It is disturbing. How many openly Jew hating Congress persons have an (R) next to their names?


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## impuretrash (Apr 24, 2019)

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Ask Don Jr. what he meant. Obviously his comments were probably aimed at college students, not elementary school kids. If I had to venture a guess, he's probably talking about marxist theories of sociology that are popular on many campuses especially with female, black and gay students.


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## sealybobo (Apr 24, 2019)

AzogtheDefiler said:


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Openly?

*How white supremacist candidates fared in 2018*
*Self-described Nazis did poorly, but candidates linked to white supremacist groups did quite well.*

*In 2018, an astonishing number of self-described white nationalists (including a former president of the American Nazi Party) ran for local, state, and national office in states from California to North Carolina — with the vast majority running as Republicans.

Many far-right candidates with ties to white supremacists or with white supremacist views of their own made it to the general election.

But several candidates with ties to white nationalists — including Rep. Steve King (R-IA), who faced mounting pressure for his past comments and links to far-right groups — won their races.

Steve King has a long history of nativism and racism

House Majority Whip Steve Scalise once reportedly described himself as “David Duke without the baggage,”

Ron DeSantis, who ran against Democrat Andrew Gillum for the role of governor of Florida, leaned hard on his pro-Trump bona fides during the campaign. But he also had a personal history of ties to conservative pundits with white nationalist histories, and received support from white nationalist groups.


*


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## sealybobo (Apr 24, 2019)

impuretrash said:


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He called teachers losers.


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## impuretrash (Apr 24, 2019)

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*loser teachers who try to sell you on socialism


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## sealybobo (Apr 24, 2019)

AzogtheDefiler said:


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I see a 2 year old article.  Nothing current.  In other words, I see nothing.

FACT CHECK: Has a City in Michigan Become the First in the U.S. to Fully Implement Sharia Law?


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## sealybobo (Apr 24, 2019)

impuretrash said:


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Well Hillary didn't mean all republican voters were deplorable either.  Just most of them.


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## impuretrash (Apr 24, 2019)

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All of them except for the ones who insist the war in Iraq was a good idea and that there's nothing more important than corporate profit.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 24, 2019)

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True about King and he has been kicked off the committees. Rest is fake news.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 24, 2019)

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YouTube a video. It’s shocking. You’re floating in a river in Egypt.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 24, 2019)

sharia law dearborn youtube - Google Search


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## sealybobo (Apr 24, 2019)

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I'm not going to listen to what paranoid Jews think about muslims.  They make up 1% of our population in America.  You'll survive.  You have more to worry about with white nationalists.  Isn't it starting to remind you of Germany in the late 30's?


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 24, 2019)

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Nope. Not even close. The Congress people who bash us consistently are Islamists. You’re not a Jew so you don’t get it. Which is fine.


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## sealybobo (Apr 24, 2019)

AzogtheDefiler said:


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No I get it they don't like Israel.  I don't either except for the fact that they are our allies.  I'd side with Israel over Muslim countries every time but still I bash corrupt Israel too.

I can't believe they re elected Bibi and his corrupt wife into power.  Scary.  Makes me think corrupt Trump is going to be re elected too.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 24, 2019)

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When you’re surrounded by enemies who want to kill you then you elect people who will protect you best in your mind.


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## baileyn45 (Apr 24, 2019)

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White nationalists in the US are far less than 1%. Far less. Unless you consider anyone to the right of Mao white nationalists.


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## baileyn45 (Apr 24, 2019)

As to the original op, it seems to me that we are producing to many kids that can parrot a left wing political views and yet can't read. Math is a foreign language, history is whatever you feel. I can't say it's everywhere but it is continually growing.

I interview and hire high school graduates, It's quite frankly frightening. I'm not sure they can spell their own name, and people will think I'm kidding. I'm not. 18 year olds that can't spell the city they live in. Get the current year wrong, by 3 or 4 years. 18 year olds that have made it to the second round of interviews that can't answer 6 X 48. The last time I used that out of 6 high school graduates 1 got it wrong another wrote in" I don't know". Frightening. 

A few years ago I read an article speaking about remedial reading programs at Ivy league schools. How in the F#$% do you get into an Ivy League school when you can't read?


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## sealybobo (Apr 24, 2019)

baileyn45 said:


> As to the original op, it seems to me that we are producing to many kids that can parrot a left wing political views and yet can't read. Math is a foreign language, history is whatever you feel. I can't say it's everywhere but it is continually growing.
> 
> I interview and hire high school graduates, It's quite frankly frightening. I'm not sure they can spell their own name, and people will think I'm kidding. I'm not. 18 year olds that can't spell the city they live in. Get the current year wrong, by 3 or 4 years. 18 year olds that have made it to the second round of interviews that can't answer 6 X 48. The last time I used that out of 6 high school graduates 1 got it wrong another wrote in" I don't know". Frightening.
> 
> A few years ago I read an article speaking about remedial reading programs at Ivy league schools. How in the F#$% do you get into an Ivy League school when you can't read?


And your side wants to ban abortions. Imagine all the shitheads we’d have if abortion were illegal.

Those are all clearly liberal women getting abortions right?


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## 80zephyr (Apr 24, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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On what I see. I believe you have commented on politics. I doubt you have ever ran for office. What qualifies you to have an opinion? 

Mark


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## Unkotare (Apr 24, 2019)

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What you see where? How long have you worked as a teacher?


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## SweetSue92 (Apr 25, 2019)

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Is there a prize for biggest jerk on USMB??

What's the prize? Are you trying to win?


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## SweetSue92 (Apr 25, 2019)

baileyn45 said:


> As to the original op, it seems to me that we are producing to many kids that can parrot a left wing political views and yet can't read. Math is a foreign language, history is whatever you feel. I can't say it's everywhere but it is continually growing.
> 
> I interview and hire high school graduates, It's quite frankly frightening. I'm not sure they can spell their own name, and people will think I'm kidding. I'm not. 18 year olds that can't spell the city they live in. Get the current year wrong, by 3 or 4 years. 18 year olds that have made it to the second round of interviews that can't answer 6 X 48. The last time I used that out of 6 high school graduates 1 got it wrong another wrote in" I don't know". Frightening.
> 
> A few years ago I read an article speaking about remedial reading programs at Ivy league schools. How in the F#$% do you get into an Ivy League school when you can't read?



That's appalling. And no doubt there are inept and bad teachers in the mix there.

But let's just say that ALL those students came to school, from age 5 on, ready and motivated to learn. That the teachers did not have to do any remediation, including teaching them basic human things like putting on and zipping a coat in Kindergarten. Or sharing. Or the basics of table manners.

How would things change?


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## sealybobo (Apr 25, 2019)

SweetSue92 said:


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Don Jr and I are tied. You forgive him so now forgive me.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2019)

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You’re not very educated. So you’re doing the best you can. Don Jr. dates KG. He is the MAN!


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## sealybobo (Apr 25, 2019)

AzogtheDefiler said:


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I got 1/3 the way through a business masters.  Had a 3.4 when I quit the program.  I'm sure that's more schooling than Don Jr ever had.

He dates Kevin Garnett?    

Kevin Garnett Nicknames

KG

The Big Ticket

The Kid

The Franchise

She must be a total bitch


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## Unkotare (Apr 25, 2019)

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## sealybobo (Apr 25, 2019)

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I quit because I got a better job that paid $10K more.  I was working at University of Phoenix and getting a free masters.  When I quit it was no longer free and to be honest, a business masters from University of Phoenix wouldn't have made a difference in my life.

Some say it could be a bad thing because potential employers see it and think I'm overqualified.  Hell the guy who hired me to do the job I do now thought I was over qualified and that's without a masters on my resume.  

But, I will be honest, I wish I would have stayed working at University of Phoenix and completed the masters.  The job I went to ended up not working out.  I didn't make very much as a Phoenix but I was getting a free Masters.  I should have stayed.  It would have only taken me a little more than a year to finish.

The typical *University of Phoenix Enrollment Counselor* salary is $42,648. ... When factoring in bonuses and additional compensation

I'm doing alright without a masters.  I'll probably make 6 figures this year.

Hey, great news.  Yesterday I just upped my 401K an additional 10% of my salary.  My checking account is growing too fast.  I just put $20K in a 13 month cd and it's only making 2.6%.  So it's better that I have the money taken out of my paycheck pre tax right?  Of course I won't be able to touch that money like I can the CD in 13 months but I don't need it.  I can't imagine needing it.  

So I'm not sad I quit the program because it led me to this job.  7 minutes from my home and making $100K?  Fuck I hit the lotto you dope.


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## sealybobo (Apr 25, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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Hey idiots.  The only point I was trying to make is that I have more of an education than Don Jr.  He has a BS in economics.  I am 1/3 the way to having a masters.  He's not.  

I wonder how much Trump paid to get Don Jr. in to that school.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2019)

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From UPENN!!!! Where is your undergrad from? LOL


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## sealybobo (Apr 25, 2019)

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Eastern Michigan University, a regionally accredited university.  Equal to all other schools except the few exceptions like University of Michigan and Michigan State University.  Those are top notch schools.  

Is UPENN like UofM or MSU here in MI?  Those are better schools than the rest of the schools in Michigan.  All the other schools are just regionally accredited universities as far as most employers are concerned.  

But UofM and MSU are the best schools in this state.  Is UPENN the best school in your state?  Or is Penn State the top school in your state?


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## sealybobo (Apr 25, 2019)

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UPENN is the best school in PA!  Nice Azog


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2019)

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One of my best friends went to EMU. I am very familiar with it. Played hoops there.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2019)

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One of the best schools in the world!


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## sealybobo (Apr 25, 2019)

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https://player.fm/series/howard-ste...-an-internet-radio-show-the-howard-stern-show

Listen to Ike Barinholtz on the Howard Stern show.  He called a conservative radio host and listen to all the horrible things he says that she agrees with.  

Scary shit because we all know that's how a lot of white nationalists feel and right now you are going along with them.    

Right at the end he said "jews too" and she said, "absolutely"  LOL.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2019)

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What show did he call? The Alt Right is awful. But the Progressive Left is equally awful. I have stated this 100x.


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## Unkotare (Apr 25, 2019)

sealybobo said:


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## sealybobo (Apr 25, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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You know why I stopped?  Because I'm a Republican now remember?  I'm anti education.  I was sick of being brainwashed by liberal socialists.

Keep in mind that it's the GOP who attack education.  It's a joke.  YOU are a joke.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2019)

sealybobo said:


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How am I joke? Please explain.


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## sealybobo (Apr 25, 2019)

AzogtheDefiler said:


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He never gave out the woman's name.  I would love it if he did and everyone called her show and laid into her.  Did you listen?  Yes, the Alt Right is deplorable.  

But I can see why you would chose them over the party that elects Muslims.  I get it.

Luckily most Jews vote Democratic.  

As we enter the 2020 presidential election cycle, one of the very few things one can forecast with high probability is this: The majority of American Jewish voters will vote Democrat.

Why U.S. Jews will continue to vote Democrat

Democratic share of the Jewish electorate has never dropped below 63 percent, while the Republican share has never risen above 31 percent. Jews were, on average, 20 percent more Democratic than the entire population. Jews constitute the most pro-Democratic white constituency in the electorate.

Rationally, given their high levels of education, income, occupational status and other traits, Jews should embrace the Republican Party and political conservatism. That’s the assumption voting behavior research would lead one to expect.

And, it isn’t like conservatives have tried to appeal to Jewish voters. Since the 1970s, Jewish neocons (former liberals turned conservative) have attempted to detach American Jews from liberalism, without much success. This lack of success led neocon leader Norman Podhoretz to conclude in his book, “Why Are Jews Liberals?” that it was due to “willful blindness and denial.”


So are Jews just as dumb as blacks for voting Democratic?  I think not.

Do you know why Jews are Democrats?  Because it was us liberals who fought to include you in the political process.  And just like blacks, gays, Mexicans and Muslims, as soon as Republicans stop using you as a reason why whites should be afraid, you'll quickly forgive and join the other side.  Blacks and hispanics are very socially conservative.  They would already be Republicans if the GOP wasn't so anti them.  One day the GOP will learn it's better to embrace the minorities instead of using them as political footballs.  What makes me mad is how quickly you all will forgive and forget.  

And, the reason Jews tend to identify as Democrats is because the Democrats “own” the separation of church and state idea.


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## sealybobo (Apr 25, 2019)

AzogtheDefiler said:


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Was I talking to you?


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## baileyn45 (Apr 27, 2019)

sealybobo said:


> baileyn45 said:
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> > As to the original op, it seems to me that we are producing to many kids that can parrot a left wing political views and yet can't read. Math is a foreign language, history is whatever you feel. I can't say it's everywhere but it is continually growing.
> ...


First of all, I don't have a side, if I did it would probably end on the side the child. Stunning and beyond understanding to you. It's a human thing.


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## Unkotare (Apr 27, 2019)

baileyn45 said:


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You don’t know how right you are.


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## Unkotare (Apr 27, 2019)

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Everyone knows why, genius.


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## baileyn45 (Apr 27, 2019)

SweetSue92 said:


> baileyn45 said:
> 
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> > As to the original op, it seems to me that we are producing to many kids that can parrot a left wing political views and yet can't read. Math is a foreign language, history is whatever you feel. I can't say it's everywhere but it is continually growing.
> ...


The teachers have nothing to do with it. It's the parents. I am well educated, there are two people that can claim responsibility, my parents. It was expected of me to be educated, it was demanded. Period. Teachers can change nothing.


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## sealybobo (Apr 28, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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It was a bad decision in retrospect but that bad decision led me to where I am now. 48. Everything’s paid off, just upped my 401k another 10% because my checking account is building up too fast.

So I don’t care that I didn’t complete the masters program. It led me to where I wanted a masters to take me. And it didn’t cost me a dime. I learned a lot in those 7 classes. I was getting a 3.5 when I stopped. 

I like making very close to 6 figures and working 7 minutes from home. 40 hours a week. Don’t take my job home with me. Lovely life. This is what I wanted a masters to get me. I got it. What more do you want from me?


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## sealybobo (Apr 28, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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I’m someone.


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## sealybobo (Apr 28, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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My girl says you sound like looser.

I didn’t misspell that it’s her cute Belarusian accent.

You are a looser.


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## sealybobo (Apr 28, 2019)

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It’s Greek Easter today have some respect. Seriously?


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## sealybobo (Apr 28, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> Anyone interested in a serious discussion about education? Any non-educators have any questions about what really goes on in the classroom instead of stereotypes and assumptions? Any educators want to share stories from the front lines? Anything?


What do you recommend students do to get their act and sat scores up?


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## Unkotare (Apr 28, 2019)

sealybobo said:


> Unkotare said:
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> > Anyone interested in a serious discussion about education? Any non-educators have any questions about what really goes on in the classroom instead of stereotypes and assumptions? Any educators want to share stories from the front lines? Anything?
> ...



1) Develop a love of reading from the earliest age
2) Study vocabulary deliberately from grade 9
3) Begin working with published test prep materials at least 4 days/week starting in grade 10
4) Enroll in intensive test prep courses (at least one class/week) and take at least one complete practice test weekly starting at the beginning of grade 11
5) Have celebrity parents pay $$$$$$ to some fraud to take the test for you
6) Pretend to be on the Crew team of your target school
7)If all else fails, cry racism


If nothing else, begin steps #2,3,4 as soon as possible


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## DGS49 (Apr 28, 2019)

Have you figured out what a parent has to do in order to motivate their children to be good students?

I personally loafed my way through 1-12, getting A's and B's with minimal effort, and never really "got it" until I went back to college after the Army (I had failed out in one year prior to enlisting).  I really didn't care about school.  I was more interested in sports, cars, and girls...none of which ever benefitted me measurably.

My (37-year-old) son had the same attitude, did OK in school, and didn't really motivate himself until graduate school.

But I see some parents are able to get their kids to place the same kind of importance on ACADEMICS as most kids place on sports and games.  I've always wondered what it is they do.  And obviously, it's more difficult to motivate boys than girls.

Any clues?


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## sealybobo (Apr 29, 2019)

DGS49 said:


> Have you figured out what a parent has to do in order to motivate their children to be good students?
> 
> I personally loafed my way through 1-12, getting A's and B's with minimal effort, and never really "got it" until I went back to college after the Army (I had failed out in one year prior to enlisting).  I really didn't care about school.  I was more interested in sports, cars, and girls...none of which ever benefitted me measurably.
> 
> ...


Ask asians


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## Unkotare (Apr 29, 2019)

DGS49 said:


> Have you figured out what a parent has to do in order to motivate their children to be good students?
> 
> I personally loafed my way through 1-12, getting A's and B's with minimal effort, and never really "got it" until I went back to college after the Army (I had failed out in one year prior to enlisting).  I really didn't care about school.  I was more interested in sports, cars, and girls...none of which ever benefitted me measurably.
> 
> ...




Children take their cues from their families. If academics are more important to the parents, the kids are likely to get the message.


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## sealybobo (Apr 29, 2019)

SweetSue92 said:


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Yes unkotare won it last year

These Republican Teachers Are Running Against Their Party

I just love Republican teachers

When Melanie Spoon, a middle-school librarian in Oklahoma City, showed up outside Republican state Rep. Mike Osburn’s office during the teacher strike last month, she planned to tell him how her budget for new books had been cut by more than half and how she hadn’t gotten a pay raise in 10 years. But, she said, Osburn wouldn’t meet with her, so Spoon — a Republican who voted for Osburn two years ago — decided to run against him.

Do you know what Melanie needs to realize?  She's in a union.  No one at her school got fired when Bush's great recession happened.  In our private companies, people got laid off and people took pay cuts.  You didn't.  In exchange for that job security, your pay isn't going to go up like our pay in the private sector went up.  It's called Risk and reward.

Anyways, back to these Republican teachers who aren't happy with the way Republicans treat schools.

The wave of teacher activism sweeping red states in the past few months isn’t stopping at strikes and protests. Frustrated with years of funding cuts and neglect for public education, dozens of teachers in traditionally Republican strongholds are taking matters into their own hands and running for office themselves. Most of the candidates are Democrats, but several are Republicans. And a handful of GOP-leaning educators are even challenging members of their own party as first-time candidates.

Osburn said he does not remember Spoon visiting his office, but denies she would have been “shooed out.” He said he met with many other educators during the two-week walkout, the threat of which helped pressure lawmakers to pass a pay raise and increase the state education budget through the state’s first major tax hike in nearly 30 years. Osburn voted for the education increases.

Pay raises?  Looks like the strike worked.  Only unions get to strike right?  And I believe Republicans want to take away your ability to strike.  Do you realize you would be powerless against Republicans if you didn't have a union?  

I find it fascinating to find a republican socialist teacher on USMB.  Must be weird having cognitive dissonance.  

You should quit and go work for a private school.  You don't deserve to work in a Public school.  I'm surprised you even want to.  You have a fucking government job

Clark, an assistant principal in Olive Hill, Kentucky who is running in a Republican primary against incumbent state Rep. Jill York, who has held the seat since 2009.

“You can’t just continue to shaft your people and expect them to continue to vote for you,” Clark said. “We need somebody who’s going to stand up for all of our people and not just do what needs to be done to save face.”

York — who voted against a new pension plan signed into law last month, which includes less generous retirement benefits for new teachers — said she has supported public educators during her tenure

Clark is among at least 40 educators running for office in Kentucky this year. Scott Lewis, superintendent of Ohio County Schools in Hartford, Kentucky and a Republican running for the Kentucky House, said he has been frustrated since August, when state leaders began discussing changes to the education budget and the pension plan. It was the start of what Lewis describes as an “all-out attack this year on public educators from the Governor on down.”

Wow a Republican who gets it 

“That was the tipping point. Public education is the backbone of everything in your state — a better educated workforce, [better] economy. Businesses that want to come here want to know what kind of schools you have,” said Lewis, who is campaigning for a seat left vacant as the Republican incumbent runs for state Senate. “If we’re going to grow this state, we need to have a focus on public education.”

To me it seems like Republican voters in Red states are starting to wake up.  They want some of that socialism.  Of course they do they don't realize they take more fedeal dollars than blue states do.


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## sealybobo (Apr 29, 2019)

SweetSue92 said:


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Dismissive comments made last August by Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin about teachers walking out over pension changes were enough to make Paula Setser-Kissick, a resource teacher for Fayette County Public Schools and a lifelong Republican, change her party affiliation.


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## sealybobo (Apr 29, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> DGS49 said:
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> > Have you figured out what a parent has to do in order to motivate their children to be good students?
> ...



The more I read about teachers the more I realize you have a second job because you need one.

Some campaign tasks — such as researching issues, speaking to groups of people and making posters — have come easier to teachers who are already used to splitting their time with a second job and using their own money to buy school supplies. Casey Satterlee, a Republican candidate in a crowded primary for a seat in the Oklahoma state House left vacant by a term-limited incumbent, has been a teacher for 14 years. He and his wife, who is also a teacher, have picked up coaching and tutoring jobs and administered standardized tests, pursuing any opportunities for supplemental income. “My wife and I have essentially had the same pay since we started teaching,” he said. “In that time, we’ve gotten married, bought a house, had two children, but nothing’s changed about our pay.”


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## sealybobo (Apr 29, 2019)

Ha!  Listen to this "republican"

Satterlee agrees with the GOP on many issues, but unlike many Republicans, he wants to change tax policy in the state in order to boost funding for education and other public services. 

Lets say it like it is.  He wants to raise taxes.  

“Taxes are low in Oklahoma, and I know it’s not a popular answer to anything, but I do think there are some adjustments we can make to our taxes that would increase the revenue,” he said. “I think most of it needs to come from big business … but we’re all going to have to step up as a community to fix our state.”

Sounds like a liberal democrat to me.  LOL.  

Spoon, the librarian in Oklahoma City, thinks too many lawmakers self-describe as “pro-education” to appease constituents, but do little to support teachers and students if it means breaking from the party line.


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## Crixus (Apr 29, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> Anyone interested in a serious discussion about education? Any non-educators have any questions about what really goes on in the classroom instead of stereotypes and assumptions? Any educators want to share stories from the front lines? Anything?




Not an educator l, but I can share a story or two. Here at the district where I work the latest scandal had to do with “time out” rooms. They used these up into middle school. Really bad kids got put into these. There is a desk, a light, and padded walls. Typically the dest would end up sticking out of a wall after sshit had been smeared all over it. There was a class action law suit so now the doors have to come off all “time out” rooms and the teachers are not allowed to restrain these kids. That’s bull shit, especially since folks want teachers pay based on merit. 


In the high schools kids can opener tell their teachers to fuck off and do about anything they want as long as they don’t strike the teacher. When resource officers are called in to remove the kid, it looks like a cell extraction at a prison. 


I’m a maintenance guy. I only fix the shit they break, but I’m cool with making a teachers life a bit more easy. If that involves a bit more $$$ fine.


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## Unkotare (Apr 29, 2019)

Crixus said:


> Unkotare said:
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> > Anyone interested in a serious discussion about education? Any non-educators have any questions about what really goes on in the classroom instead of stereotypes and assumptions? Any educators want to share stories from the front lines? Anything?
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No way 

Not anywhere I have ever taught.


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## Crixus (Apr 29, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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Yup. If I were in high school at one of the schools in the district I work at I can be told by a teacher to put up my cell phone and do my work and respond with “go to hell slut” and other then send a note to the office they can do nothing.


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## Unkotare (Apr 29, 2019)

Crixus said:


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Does not sound true.


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## Crixus (Apr 29, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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Due to the fact that it’s mentioned on the internet, you would be incredibly stupid to buy it out the gate.  If you can read all about it if you look. This type of thing isn’t just happening where I work. Harris county ISD has the same issues. Many districts do.


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## Unkotare (Apr 29, 2019)

Crixus said:


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I’ve been teaching for 25 years, in some of the roughest districts in the country, and I’ve never seen a school just let shit like that slide with no more than a note.


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## Crixus (Apr 29, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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Let me look at my pictures. I’ll try and post some up. I just can’t do any with the district name in them. Give me a few to see what I have..


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## Unkotare (Apr 29, 2019)

Crixus said:


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Pictures of what?


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## Crixus (Apr 29, 2019)

Okay, this wall is in one of the classrooms where they deal with challenging kids.


Unkotare said:


> Crixus said:
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Damage. I am a maintenance guy, but I only fix damage. Typically, it’s the elementals school kids that are the worst. High school kids just cut school mostly. It’s the elementary school kids that really rip shit apart and the teachers can’t even remove them from class.


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## Crixus (Apr 29, 2019)

Oh, and bad neighborhoods and teaching in them means nothing. The district I work at is pretty well to do, and the district is run like it was in the 3rd ward or mexico .


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## Unkotare (Apr 29, 2019)

Crixus said:


> Okay, this wall is in one of the classrooms where they deal with challenging kids.
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
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Who told you they can’t be removed from class?


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## mgh80 (May 4, 2019)

impuretrash said:


> What percentage of teachers do you reckon favor left wing politics?



I'd guess ~60% from my experience. There's a clear majority of people leaning left politically, but still plenty of those on the right. universities/colleges are completely different.


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## sealybobo (May 22, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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I’m trying to send you a pic of my girl at the gun range but the file is too big. Boy are guys super friendly and helpful when she’s around. One guy was like here try my gun.


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## Unkotare (May 22, 2019)

sealybobo said:


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Yeah, cause that’s just what an adult would do...

You’re trying too hard, closet case.


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## Unkotare (May 22, 2019)

So sad...


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## Unkotare (May 22, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> Anyone interested in a serious discussion about education? Any non-educators have any questions about what really goes on in the classroom instead of stereotypes and assumptions? Any educators want to share stories from the front lines? Anything?





As graduation approaches, it’s rewarding to see young people who were so lost and nervous four years ago stepping out confidently into a new phase of their lives. Very proud of them.


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## Unkotare (May 22, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> impuretrash said:
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> > Marion Morrison said:
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.


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## Unkotare (May 22, 2019)

At this time of year, a lot of students are taking standardized test’s. In many states and districts there are tests that are required mints for graduation. A lot of people complain that preparing for and taking these tests eats up a lot of the school year, and it is true that it does disrupt the academic year and require a great deal of time. However, it is also true in my experience that schools and students take such test seriously  and put forth a great deal of effort in order to pass them. A lot of students get extra help after school and on weekends from teachers like myself who are willing to donate their time in many many of my colleagues who do the same. So, there is an educational and motivational benefit to these tests while at the same time they do take up a lot of the oxygen in the room.


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## Unkotare (May 22, 2019)

Just today a number of students came up to me very excited about having taken one of such tests for the second time and feeling confident that they had passed at this time. That sense of accomplishment in a young person who’s been working hard at something is worth the price of admission.


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## Unkotare (May 25, 2019)

Dropping off my oldest son at school just now I’m wondering if it might be beneficial for American education in general for all students to go to school at least 6 days a week.


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## Silver Blooded (May 25, 2019)

Genie's already out of that bottle. Can't be undone because it'll be considered oppressive to either Christian-Americans or Jewish-Americans, considering one's sabbath is on Sunday, the other on Saturday. But, dude, I would LOVE half-days on Saturday. Half the day, students get an education, the other half is for staff coordination and paperwork. That could actually make it so that teachers don't have to stay late everyday, or bring home their work every night. Still, an impossible dream due to religious conflictions.

But then, truancy would be through the roof also, because you'd get shitty parents refusing to send their kids (as if that doesn't happen enough already).


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## Unkotare (May 25, 2019)

I don’t know. Lots of kids show up for Saturday detention. Quite a lot of my kids show up for completely voluntary Saturday tutoring. I think it could be made to work.


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## Unkotare (May 25, 2019)

The school I am sitting out in front of right now has a pretty long waiting list of parents trying to get their kids signed up and it only meets on Saturdays.


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## Silver Blooded (May 25, 2019)

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea and I think it would be beneficial to teacher and students. I'm just saying that there will be a significant push from Jewish-American people and people that don't want to (or can't) get their kids to school on the weekends.


Also, I'm curious on _exactly_ what you're suggesting, as well. Are you saying to add to the 180 days of instructional time, or are you say reorganize the time to include weekends? I ask because money will become an issue as well if you're suggesting to add more time. I know that my school district just had a rally in April demanding Sisolak to raise teacher's wages, despite the fact that the fucker just got into office. I didn't go, because the union is fucking stupid and said the government had the money and they weren't spending it (LMFAO!!!), but I knew that wasn't true and that they'd have to take some kind of action that would hurt others in order to come up with that money. And it looks like they're raising teachers wages by cutting from Sped... again... less ID classes. And that's just Clark County School District. If every school becomes required to add more instructional time, it would mean more money spent on teacher salaries, and where is that money going to come from? Who is getting the cut in other states? Are they going to raise taxes for the money? Or are the kids just going to have a longer summer break?

EDIT: Minor corrections


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## Unkotare (May 26, 2019)

Silver Blooded said:


> Don't get me wrong, I like the idea and I think it would be beneficial to teacher and students. I'm just saying that there will be a significant push from Jewish-American people and people that don't want to (or can't) get their kids to school on the weekends.
> 
> 
> Also, I'm curious on _exactly_ what you're suggesting, as well. Are you saying to add to the 180 days of instructional time, or are you say reorganize the time to include weekends? I ask because money will become an issue as well if you're suggesting to add more time. I know that my school district just had a rally in April demanding Sisolak to raise teacher's wages, despite the fact that the fucker just got into office. I didn't go, because the union is fucking stupid and said the government had the money and they weren't spending it (LMFAO!!!), but I knew that wasn't true and that they'd have to take some kind of action that would hurt others in order to come up with that money. And it looks like they're raising teachers wages by cutting from Sped... again... less ID classes. And that's just Clark County School District. If every school becomes required to add more instructional time, it would mean more money spent on teacher salaries, and where is that money going to come from? Who is getting the cut in other states? Are they going to raise taxes for the money? Or are the kids just going to have a longer summer break?
> ...




Teacher pay in one state is not tied to that in any other state. Pay in one district is not tied to that in the neighboring district. That’s not how it works.

 There is more than enough fat in every state and local budget to fund 10 times what it would cost to have school on Saturday, but it might be interesting to make just the Saturday sessions similar to a private school where attendance would be voluntary and parents would pay for that particular portion. It would be very interesting to compare outcomes Of those who attended the Saturday session and those who did not.


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