# Threat of Fascism in American Politics



## hst_patriot (Apr 6, 2011)

"*Fascism s a radical, authoritarian nationalist political ideology. Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy.They advocate the creation of a totalitarian single-party state*"
       -Turner, Henry Ashby. Reappraisals of Fascism. *&* Larsen, Stein. Who were the Fascists Fascists: social roots of European Fascism. p. 424."organized form of integrative radical nationalist authoritarianism"

What party does this sound like? 
   A few hints: This party believes that collective bargaining rights of citizens against a larger power, i.e. corporate perspectives, is unconstitutional, despite the fact that *democracy gives individuals agency in government.* For example the right to vote for representation, protest, OR create organizations to lobby their political interest. Read Federalist Paper# 10, written by James Madison, expresses the part about organizations to lobby their political interest.

They have a major television network that produces propaganda for this party, denouncing their opponents as terrorists or communists. Unlike other networks, this particular network is not only bias, which any form of media will be, but INFORMS ITS VIEWERS WHO TO VOTE FOR.

This party believe all members of the opposition party should be eliminated from politics, thus granting one party complete control over the government.

Do these hints seem like fascism to you? 


Now its time for the answer to the question.

If you said democrats/liberals, then you _would_ be correct, if the question were asking which party is made of apathetic pussies, but it is not. The question is asking to determine which party is fascist. Therefore, the answer is... The Tea Party. I'm sorry to offend anyone on this message board, but you are contributing to fascism. 

Read, for yourself DO NOT have Glen Beck, Sara Palin or anyone else interpret these readings, literature from the mid -late 18th and 19th century, the period that spawned the philosophies shaping our government. Read Paine or Rousseau on the French Revolution, they make the same argument as the founding fathers. Read the Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers, which are written by the Founding Fathers. If you do this you will understand the Tea Party's dedication to brutally raping the American way.

- Hunter S. Thompson is a true patriot


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## Midnight Marauder (Apr 6, 2011)

Oh great, another "The Tea Party is FASCIST OMGZ" thread. Like we don't already have several of these.

When you sign on to forum boards, do you bother looking at the statistics? Here's ours:

Threads: 133,288, 				Posts: 3,421,343, 				Members: 19,521

So, odds are your silly assed topic is already covered ad infinitum.


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## hst_patriot (Apr 6, 2011)

There are so many because the Tea Party _IS_ fascist. Do a little research instead of blindly following what some people say. You will find that your party is fascist. I am from a conservative libertarian family, raised to be conservative. However, I was not raised to blindly follow the words of TV personalities. I dare you to takes some time and read three pages of the documents tea party supporters use to convey their message, then examine the party's political actions, and the end result is that the Tea Party does not support liberty, freedom, and democracy, but fascism instead.


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## xsited1 (Apr 6, 2011)

When did the Tea Party become a political party?


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## Midnight Marauder (Apr 6, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> There are so many because the Tea Party _IS_ fascist. Do a little research instead of blindly following what some people say. You will find that your party is fascist. I am from a conservative libertarian family, raised to be conservative. However, I was not raised to blindly follow the words of TV personalities. I dare you to takes some time and read three pages of the documents tea party supporters use to convey their message, then examine the party's political actions, and the end result is that the Tea Party does not support liberty, freedom, and democracy, but fascism instead.


You have no idea my stripe, philosophy, beliefs.... You ASSume. And of course, wrongly.





> There are so many because the Tea Party _IS_ fascist.


There are so many because "The tea party is fascist OMG!!!" is the regurgitated talking point du jour lately. Just because it's parroted and regurgitated thousands of times, does not make it true, Goebbels.


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## hst_patriot (Apr 6, 2011)

Midnight Marauder, let me get this straight you are using a Goebbels, who was a fascist, furthermore a NAZI, to defend the position that the Tea Party is not fascist. Are you arguing for fascism or are you just a retard?


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## hst_patriot (Apr 6, 2011)

Clearly Marauder realizes that he has made himself look like an idiot, and refuses to retort. Does anyone on the board want to try and argue how the Tea Party isn't fascist? I want one example where the Tea Party allows for individuals or groups of individuals, which are outside the corporate structure, to have agency.


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## Wry Catcher (Apr 6, 2011)

Midnight Marauder said:


> Oh great, another "The Tea Party is FASCIST OMGZ" thread. Like we don't already have several of these.
> 
> When you sign on to forum boards, do you bother looking at the statistics? Here's ours:
> 
> ...



Odds are the number of Socialist, Communist, Marxist claims against Obama are far greater than one's suggesting the Republican Party has moved far right, and is emulating facist movements of the past.


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## hst_patriot (Apr 6, 2011)

Not really, I'm saying they are. Someone please tell me how they are not. I want:  a) a quotation from a leading figure of the tea party where they define democracy, liberty and/or freedom, i.e. do not simply list these concepts as their platform but discuss what one or more of these concepts means. b) an example where Tea Party politics demonstrate the concept(s) of democracy, liberty, and/or freedom. c) an explanation of why their actions are synonymous with democracy, liberty, and/or freedom. 

If my demands are not met then I will continue to denounce the tea party as fascist.


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## Wry Catcher (Apr 6, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> Clearly Marauder realizes that he has made himself look like an idiot, and refuses to retort. Does anyone on the board want to try and argue how the Tea Party isn't fascist? I want one example where the Tea Party allows for individuals or groups of individuals, which are outside the corporate structure, to have agency.



Good point; one might note that anyone who doesn't toe the ideological line (see Scott Brown, or the number of RINO comments) is suspect.  I wonder if Freedom Works has bought land to 'house' the dissidents.


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## Dr.Drock (Apr 6, 2011)

Our entire gov't is fascist, no point in singling out a tiny group.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 6, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> Not really, I'm saying they are.



So you're kind of stupid.

How many times did you vote for Obama? (More than five and you get a prize, so says Tony Rezko.)


> Someone please tell me how they are not. I want:  a) a quotation from a leading figure of the tea party where they define democracy, liberty and/or freedom,



Who cares what you want?



> If my demands are not met then I will continue to denounce the tea party as fascist.



You'll also continue to drool and shit yourself.

Who cares?


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## California Girl (Apr 6, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> Not really, I'm saying they are. Someone please tell me how they are not. I want:  a) a quotation from a leading figure of the tea party where they define democracy, liberty and/or freedom, i.e. do not simply list these concepts as their platform but discuss what one or more of these concepts means. b) an example where Tea Party politics demonstrate the concept(s) of democracy, liberty, and/or freedom. c) an explanation of why their actions are synonymous with democracy, liberty, and/or freedom.
> 
> If my demands are not met then I will continue to denounce the tea party as fascist.



Demands?  Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 6, 2011)

Dr.Drock said:


> Our entire gov't is fascist, no point in singling out a tiny group.



Are you claiming the the merger of General Motors and Chrysler with the Federal Government is somehow "fascist?"

No, can't be...


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## WillowTree (Apr 6, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> Not really, I'm saying they are. Someone please tell me how they are not. I want:  a) a quotation from a leading figure of the tea party where they define democracy, liberty and/or freedom, i.e. do not simply list these concepts as their platform but discuss what one or more of these concepts means. b) an example where Tea Party politics demonstrate the concept(s) of democracy, liberty, and/or freedom. c) an explanation of why their actions are synonymous with democracy, liberty, and/or freedom.
> 
> If my demands are not met then I will continue to denounce the tea party as fascist.



Dennounce away dipshit. You haven't offered proof that they are fascist. So fuck you dipshit.


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## blastoff (Apr 6, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> Not really, I'm saying they are. Someone please tell me how they are not. I want:  a) a quotation from a leading figure of the tea party where they define democracy, liberty and/or freedom, i.e. do not simply list these concepts as their platform but discuss what one or more of these concepts means. b) an example where Tea Party politics demonstrate the concept(s) of democracy, liberty, and/or freedom. c) an explanation of why their actions are synonymous with democracy, liberty, and/or freedom.
> 
> If my demands are not met then I will continue to denounce the tea party as fascist.



And why should anyone give a rat's ass about your denouncement?


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## Robert (Apr 6, 2011)

I'm with everyone else dipshit "I will continue to denounce" Fuck you and hope like hell the Horse stomps your ass.


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## JFK_USA (Apr 6, 2011)

This will be fun, count me in the they're facist. Lets take on the tea party and their threats to Speaker Boehner:

Boehner resists budget deal as Tea Partier seeks his ouster - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

He is in a tough place, he is dealing with a bunch of idiots who don't understand that they don't always get their way. They are just a bunch of babies. Racist babies I might add.

RealClearPolitics - Racism and the Tea Party Movement

Is it a coincidence that this anger came when a black man was elected president? I think not. Its because he is black that the anger is there. They are a very radical group.


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## Anachronism (Apr 6, 2011)

They're not Fascists. Hell, they're not even Authoritarians (which I would support) or Conservatives. They're a bunch of All-Talk, No-Walk little pansies who don't have the balls to back up their supposed convictions with actions.


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## California Girl (Apr 6, 2011)

JFK_USA said:


> This will be fun, count me in the they're facist. Lets take on the tea party and their threats to Speaker Boehner:
> 
> Boehner resists budget deal as Tea Partier seeks his ouster - Political Hotsheet - CBS News
> 
> ...



If you stopped doing MJ long enough to allow your brain to function adequately, you would know that even the ACLU has failed to find any actual evidence of racism in the TEA Parties.... that'll be because they are not racist. Idiot lefties who can't argue on policies fall back on the 'racist' label cuz that's all you got. It fails every time. Yet the idiot Obamanation still keep whining. 

Sad, and pathetic that you choose to use minorities as a weapon.


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## del (Apr 6, 2011)

0.00001/10

consider coprology


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## FuelRod (Apr 6, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> If my demands are not met then I will continue to denounce the tea party as fascist.



Irony defined yet again by your friendly neighborhood Libertard.


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## WillowTree (Apr 6, 2011)

I guess his ass ran out of demands,


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## kaz (Apr 6, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> Not really, I'm saying they are. Someone please tell me how they are not. I want:  a) a quotation from a leading figure of the tea party where they define democracy, liberty and/or freedom, i.e. do not simply list these concepts as their platform but discuss what one or more of these concepts means. b) an example where Tea Party politics demonstrate the concept(s) of democracy, liberty, and/or freedom. c) an explanation of why their actions are synonymous with democracy, liberty, and/or freedom.
> 
> If my demands are not met then I will continue to denounce the tea party as fascist.


Your friend doesn't know "fascist" means.

But what he's trying to say is tea party is hateful, which he's using hate to convey.  Liberals for whatever reason don't believe hypocrisy is an obstacle...for themselves...


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## hst_patriot (Apr 6, 2011)

Wry Catcher, clearly you are much more capable of debate. Obviously a Tea Party forum is going to be about Tea Party ideas, and I want to discuss why the Tea Party represents liberty, democracy and freedom, because it does not appear to me to be so. You mention Obama "the socialist", this is a major misconception held by the right, and like everything else they believe is unsupported opinion made to seem true because its on a major TV network. 

Obama is much less a Marxist than the tea party is fascist, and furthermore, has exhibited fascism when he supplemented the government bailouts delivered by the Bush Administration. (Don't mean to bring Bush into the debate, mention his administration only because of the relevance to bailouts). The fascist notions in these bailouts are, even though these companies, which exist in a free market, made poor business decisions the America tax payers would foot the bill. 

This is closer to fascism than marxism because the government is sympathizing with corporate prospectives and values, it is better for business if the tax payer foots the bill because the current owner won't lose their wealth. These actions illustrate the government essentially saying "Hey America, I know its these guys fault, but they have money and power, and if we don't help them they'll lose it." So what? Others, who have been fiscally responsible, may renew industry. If Obama were Marxist, both the banking and auto industries would be entirely under government control, and the money generated from them would be used to fund the nation. This is not the case. 

 I consider the Tea Party so dangerous because they have claim to support liberty, freedom and democracy, but every instance where I observe their reactions to recent events, and their approach to these events, I observe a political group which; is funded by an extremely wealthy core of corporate identified persons, and is tethered to the advantage of such people. I see a group constantly depicted as a last hope on a major news network, Fox News, tells viewers who they should vote for. 

A responsible news network does not say "Obama is a socialist", as I've seen that lobotomized blonde in the morning say on Fox, but rather something like, "Those who oppose Obama argue he is a socialist because..." then they would cite the oppositions reason for claiming he is a socialist. Notice how the former asserts opinion as a fact, and the other is reporting on events in Washington?

None of this sounds like liberty, democracy, or freedom to me.


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## hst_patriot (Apr 6, 2011)

the Tea Party is about to adulterate a libertarian classic; _Atlas Shrugged_?

Ayn Rand is pissed.


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## Mr Liberty (Apr 6, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> Not really, I'm saying they are. Someone please tell me how they are not. I want:  a) a quotation from a leading figure of the tea party where they define democracy, liberty and/or freedom, i.e. do not simply list these concepts as their platform but discuss what one or more of these concepts means. b) an example where Tea Party politics demonstrate the concept(s) of democracy, liberty, and/or freedom. c) an explanation of why their actions are synonymous with democracy, liberty, and/or freedom.
> 
> If my demands are not met then I will continue to denounce the tea party as fascist.



Liberals/Socialists, who take an individual property by force, do *not* value liberty!  You already live in a fascist state.  Do you really think your congressman represent you?


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## del (Apr 6, 2011)

the book sucked

ayn rand sucked

you suck


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## FuelRod (Apr 6, 2011)

I'm more pissed about the singularity of topic in the threads you start.


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## Mr. Shaman (Apr 6, 2011)

Dr.Drock said:


> Our entire gov't is fascist, *no point in singling out a tiny group*.


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......​


> *fascism:* often capitalized : a *political philosophy, movement, or regime* (as that of the Fascisti) *that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.*









> *February 03, 2011*
> 
> *Paul Ryan Plotting With Billionaire $upporter$*​




Try askin' a tough-question, the next time.


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## ABikerSailor (Apr 6, 2011)

xsited1 said:


> When did the Tea Party become a political party?



When the teabaggers went and formed their own political caucus in the House.

Cantor, Paul, Bachmann......they're all teabaggers and they are the ones holding up the GOP from working with the Dems to get the budget passed.

Incidentally, it looks like Cantor is gunning for Boehner's seat.


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## Mr. Shaman (Apr 6, 2011)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dr.Drock said:
> 
> 
> > Our entire gov't is fascist, no point in singling out a tiny group.
> ...


*Whew!!!!!*

You *'Baggers* surely do seem to enjoy gettin'....



> .....*slapped-around.*



​


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## hst_patriot (Apr 6, 2011)

People don't like the tea party because they want to return to the days before Upton Sinclair's, _The Jungle_, was written. A glorious time when small children were allowed to work in coal mines, and textile factories. Where family dinner consisted of a loaf of bread. Where vast social communication is regulated, that way people won't have too many free thoughts. 

Yes, in those days there was no such thing as a college education for under privileged, or upward mobility. Ah, the American Dream; a land where pork sausages were made with the fingers of the workers who packaged them, and industry and business ruled with an iron fist, and was unchallenged, by the liberty of those below them.  Those were the days. 

Vote for the Tea Party to end ALL responsibility of those who own our corporations. They can pay us all 25 cents an hour to make shoes, just like the Chinese.


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## Mr. Shaman (Apr 6, 2011)

JFK_USA said:


> This will be fun, count me in the they're facist. Lets take on the tea party and their threats to Speaker Boehner:
> 
> Boehner resists budget deal as Tea Partier seeks his ouster - Political Hotsheet - CBS News
> 
> ...


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## JimH52 (Apr 6, 2011)

Fascism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> Fascists believe that a nation requires strong leadership, singular collective identity, and the will and ability to commit violence and wage war in order to keep the nation strong.[



*Looks pretty close to me!*


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## hst_patriot (Apr 6, 2011)

Ok. This board is full of ignorance, and apathy. While looking through Tea Party forum posts, I've noticed that threads labeled as "Hot" support the Tea Party, while those that are critical are labeled "old". Thus, you are too busy tugging on each other's dicks, and cupping one another's balls, to engage in a debate about your principles. The Tea Party movement is apparently headed by wealthy fascists, and fueled by functioning retards like Marauder. 

Also, this thread has had many more views than posts. Are you too stupid to defend your opinion? Is Marauder your spokesman? If so I would highly recommend getting a new one. One of you has to be intelligent and can formulate an argument based on examples. One that, unlike Marauder, isn't retarded.


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## ABikerSailor (Apr 6, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> Not really, I'm saying they are. Someone please tell me how they are not. I want:  a) a quotation from a leading figure of the tea party where they define democracy, liberty and/or freedom, i.e. do not simply list these concepts as their platform but discuss what one or more of these concepts means. b) an example where Tea Party politics demonstrate the concept(s) of democracy, liberty, and/or freedom. c) an explanation of why their actions are synonymous with democracy, liberty, and/or freedom.
> 
> If my demands are not met then I will continue to denounce the tea party as fascist.



I think you may be right......

From Dictionary.com



> fas·cist&#8194; &#8194;/&#712;fæ&#643;&#618;st/  Show Spelled
> [fash-ist]  Show IPA
> 
> noun
> ...



And, here's something from wikipedia........



> Fascism ( /&#712;fæ&#643;&#618;z&#601;m/) is a radical, authoritarian nationalist political ideology.[1][2] *Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy*.[3] They advocate the creation of a totalitarian single-party state that seeks the mass mobilization of a nation and the creation of an ideal "new man" to form a governing elite through indoctrination, physical education, and family policy including eugenics.[4] Fascists believe that a nation requires strong leadership, singular collective identity, and the will and ability to commit violence and wage war in order to keep the nation strong.[5] Fascist governments forbid and suppress opposition to the state.[6]
> 
> Fascism was founded by Italian national syndicalists in World War I who combined left-wing and right-wing political views, but it gravitated to the right in the early 1920s.[7][8] Scholars generally consider fascism to be on the far right.[9][10][11][12][13]
> 
> ...



Now, considering that the teabaggers themselves are corporate sponsored (Dick Army and the Koch brothers), as well as farther to the right than most GOP types, yeah.....they ARE fascists.


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## Mr. Shaman (Apr 6, 2011)

California Girl said:


> JFK_USA said:
> 
> 
> > This will be fun, count me in the they're facist. Lets take on the tea party and their threats to Speaker Boehner:
> ...


















[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAAHMDpk7Ik]YouTube - Janeane Garofalo declares Tea Party attendees racist and Keith Olbermann agrees.[/ame]​


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## Wry Catcher (Apr 6, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> Ok. This board is full of ignorance, and apathy. While looking through Tea Party forum posts, I've noticed that threads labeled as "Hot" support the Tea Party, while those that are critical are labeled "old". Thus, you are too busy tugging on each other's dicks, and cupping one another's balls, to engage in a debate about your principles. The Tea Party movement is apparently headed by wealthy fascists, and fueled by functioning retards like Marauder.
> 
> Also, this thread has had many more views than posts. Are you too stupid to defend your opinion? Is Marauder your spokesman? If so I would highly recommend getting a new one. One of you has to be intelligent and can formulate an argument based on examples. One that, unlike Marauder, isn't retarded.



I would have offered thanks for this post but for one apparent mistake.  Suggesting someone in the set occupied by Marauder "has to be intelligent and can formulate an arugment based on examples" or provide evidence to support their opinions is not based on any discernable evidence.  In fact opinons by this group are stated as facts, immutable and not open to debate.


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## JFK_USA (Apr 6, 2011)

Mr. Shaman said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> > JFK_USA said:
> ...



Oh snap! owned.


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## hst_patriot (Apr 6, 2011)

So I've noticed. You would think these people would take more stock in themselves as human beings. It's one thing to be an armchair politician, but its another to be an armchair politician who doesn't understand how a debate works.

It's reasons expressed in my previous post, ignorance, and apathy, that have turned this country into the mess it is today, and the Tea Party is using this ignorance to take more away for American citizens. You hide behind Fox News TV personality and imitate what they say without even understanding it, If no one will debate me then you are only proving you are incapable of making a thought unless its jammed into your skull by a television set. 

I will be gone for a few hours and will gladly review any comments when I return. If I disagree, but your argument is based on reason and logic, I will not treat you like Marauder. In fact I will commend you, because you will be the first Tea Party supporter, EVER, who is capable of a proper debate.


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## Mr. Shaman (Apr 6, 2011)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dr.Drock said:
> 
> 
> > Our entire gov't is fascist, no point in singling out a tiny group.
> ...





> *April 6, 2011*​
> "*The blockbuster initial public offering of General Motors Co* (GM.N) *has refueled investors' appetite for the long-ignored auto sector and bodes well for other sector companies expected to tap the public market after sweeping restructurings.*
> 
> *The U.S. auto industry, which emerged from the punishing downturn of the late 2000s with sharply lower costs and higher profit potential, could see a robust pipeline of new equity offerings in the next 12-18 months*, senior equity capital markets and M&A bankers said at the Reuters Global Mergers and Acquisitions Summit in New York."
> ...


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## FuelRod (Apr 6, 2011)

Jeannie Garofellow said it?  Oh I'm sold.


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## Dr.Drock (Apr 6, 2011)

JimH52 said:


> Fascism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I can't think of any way in which that's NOT the case.


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## hst_patriot (Apr 6, 2011)

Every politician is corrupt. Business, which the tea party wants to hand control of our nation to, corrupts them. Defend yourselves on my post. I want answers to yall's madness!


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## Avatar4321 (Apr 6, 2011)

A person who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool. A person who takes offense when offense is intended is a bigger fool.

Life's too short to let people have that kind of control over your life.


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## xotoxi (Apr 6, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> the Tea Party is about to adulterate a libertarian classic; _Atlas Shrugged_?
> 
> Ayn Rand is pissed.



Dear Mr. Patriot,

You are correct.  I am pissed.

Yours truly,


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## WillowTree (Apr 6, 2011)

FuelRod said:


> Jeannie Garofellow said it?  Oh I'm sold.



Oh me too. Sign me up.


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## WillowTree (Apr 6, 2011)

JFK_USA said:


> Mr. Shaman said:
> 
> 
> > California Girl said:
> ...



oh snap,, what's olbernut doing these days??


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## Two Thumbs (Apr 6, 2011)

JimH52 said:


> Fascism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Then you lack reading comprehension.

Who sent union thugs to bully and beat people?  SEIU, and their leader has been to the WH more than anyone.

Who started an illegal war not long ago?  Obama

Damn you just described the DNC.

grats


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## Two Thumbs (Apr 6, 2011)

ABikerSailor said:


> hst_patriot said:
> 
> 
> > Not really, I'm saying they are. Someone please tell me how they are not. I want:  a) a quotation from a leading figure of the tea party where they define democracy, liberty and/or freedom, i.e. do not simply list these concepts as their platform but discuss what one or more of these concepts means. b) an example where Tea Party politics demonstrate the concept(s) of democracy, liberty, and/or freedom. c) an explanation of why their actions are synonymous with democracy, liberty, and/or freedom.
> ...



What Pres owns GM?  Obama.

You also just described the DNC.

grats.


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## Midnight Marauder (Apr 6, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> Midnight Marauder, let me get this straight you are using a Goebbels, who was a fascist, furthermore a NAZI, to defend the position that the Tea Party is not fascist. Are you arguing for fascism or are you just a retard?


I'm not making that claim, taking that position, nor have I. YOU are exibiting symptoms of Goebbels. Obviously you cannot read or comprehend what you read.


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## Two Thumbs (Apr 6, 2011)

JFK_USA said:


> Mr. Shaman said:
> 
> 
> > California Girl said:
> ...




A double fail.

shaman gave no links for the pics, for the chain email style picks.

And you morons think that has been comedian is a font of truth.

good lord


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## Midnight Marauder (Apr 6, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> I will be gone for a few hours and will gladly review any comments when I return. If I disagree, but your argument is based on reason and logic, I will not treat you like Marauder. In fact I will commend you, because you will be the first Tea Party supporter, EVER, who is capable of a proper debate.


As soon as you show us all where I've ever supported the "Tea Party" you might then have a point. (Hint: You can't, because it never happened.)

You don't know the first thing about "proper debate," otherwise, your entire premise wouldn't be the infantile straw man argument it is.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 6, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> Midnight Marauder, let me get this straight you are using a Goebbels, who was a fascist, furthermore a NAZI, to defend the position that the Tea Party is not fascist. Are you arguing for fascism or are you just a retard?



You are in no position to call others "retard."

Was it the "Tea Party" which merged General Motors and the Federal Government? Did the Tea Party SUPPORT such merger? Did the Tea Party promote and support the TARP bailout of Goldman Sachs and Chase Manhattan?

You're a fucking fool without a hint of a clue.

Turn off Madcow and pick up a book.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 6, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> the Tea Party is about to adulterate a libertarian classic; _Atlas Shrugged_?
> 
> Ayn Rand is pissed.



Atlas is an Objectivist classic. Rand hated Rothbard and the Libertarians. Rothbard called Rand and her Objectivists a cult.

You are completely clueless.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 6, 2011)

del said:


> the book sucked
> 
> ayn rand sucked



You're more of a "Green Eggs and Ham" guy, huh?


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## Anachronism (Apr 6, 2011)

JimH52 said:


> > Fascists believe that a nation requires strong leadership, singular collective identity, and the will and ability to commit violence and wage war in order to keep the nation strong.
> 
> 
> 
> *Looks pretty close to me!*



Sounds pretty darn good to me.



hst_patriot said:


> So I've noticed. You would think these people would take more stock in themselves as human beings. It's one thing to be an armchair politician, but its another to be an armchair politician who doesn't understand how a debate works.



Debate is a waste of time for those of us who live in a world without "Grey" in it. There are two options.... Right and Wrong. The boundaries of each have long since been determined. Therefore there is no need to "debate" anything. It is only those who inject "Grey" into a Black & White world who see the need for debate on topics.



hst_patriot said:


> It's reasons expressed in my previous post, ignorance, and apathy, that have turned this country into the mess it is today, and the Tea Party is using this ignorance to take more away for American citizens. You hide behind Fox News TV personality and imitate what they say without even understanding it, If no one will debate me then you are only proving you are incapable of making a thought unless its jammed into your skull by a television set.



If I know that Up is Up and Down is Down; why would I have to have a debate with you or anyone else on that topic? Is my mind going to be changed?.... No. Is your mind going to be changed?.... No. So why waste the time debating it?

Oh, and my viewpoint on Up and Down doesn't come from Fox News. It comes from my upbringing and what I was taught by my parents, grandparents, etc...


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## hst_patriot (Apr 6, 2011)

Uncensored2008, you are as mentally handicapped as Marauder, who thinks that posting about how the Tea Party is fascist, is fascist because everyone is saying. People agreeing is NOT fascism Marauder, you need to work on reading comprehension. 

First I did not bring up government bailouts to align them with the Tea Party. But to demonstrate how Obama is NOT a marxist, socialist, terrorist sleeping cell, if he were then the government would OWN these industries. You picked up on this though good work, if you were in 3rd grade. I think it was you who asked how many times I voted for Obama, the answer is 0 I did not vote because both candidates were so appalling that I could not pick between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. 

The rest of the Tea Party supporters who posted on this thread, unfortunately, demonstrated my point they are utterly brain dead. None of them offered one piece of evidence to counter my claim the tea party is fascist. To refresh my examples:

1. Tea Party Leaders want business to be the lone voice of politics in America
      Example: Tea Party supports making unions illegal. Unions is a faction of workers that protect the interest of workers. Just as lobbyists protect the interest of corporations. By making it illegal for workers to unionize they are stripping a group of citizens their right for political agency. This is fascist because the idea is the rights of corporations are the only rights that need be represented in government. 

2. Fox News is a right wing propaganda network being used to influence people, by telling their viewers what candidates are acceptable to vote for. This supplements my claim because its a network on public TV that does not identify as being a spokesperson for right wing politics. Fox makes their viewers believe you are conservative or a terrorist/commie, there is not middle ground on Fox. 

3. The Tea Party is funded by extremely wealthy individuals. One of them is Rupert Murdoch, who owns Newcorp, which includes Fox News. Clearly, one mind set is at work

Conclusion: When you have a party that does not believe in the right of the people to participate in government, and uses a propaganda network, passed off as "fair and balanced", and funded by the largest contributor to a party or movement, one set of values is being implemented as law. This is fascism. 

I have made an argument. Marauder, Uncensored, and the rest of you who disagreed with my claims, you have provided no evidence other than "fuck you". However, despite what the crank to operate puppets on Fox say, "fuck you" is not evidence. It's an insult. 

Marauder I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings by calling you a retard, but you have not proved otherwise. Uncensored you too are an idiot. Both of you have ZERO reading comprehension and debate skills. Neither of you have offered evidence to disprove my claim, you told me to stop talking about it, i.e. "fuck off" My point is thus proven, Tea Party supporters, Fox News junkies, conservatives, or whatever it is you want to refer to yourself as do not know how to do more than masturbate to photos of Glen Beck.


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## Midnight Marauder (Apr 6, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> People agreeing is NOT fascism Marauder, you need to work on reading comprehension.


You continue to simply outright lie about what was said. _Agreeing_ was never brought up. Regurgitating the talking point du jour endlessly, repeatedly, obviously believing in Goebbels techniques, was. Repeating the same thing over and over does not validate it or make it true, and also does not make it agreed with.


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## FuelRod (Apr 6, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> Uncensored2008, you are as mentally handicapped as Marauder, who thinks that posting about how the Tea Party is fascist is fascist because everyone is saying. People agreeing is NOT fascism Marauder, you need to work on reading comprehension.
> 
> First I did not bring up government bailouts to align them with the Tea Party. But to demonstrate how Obama is NOT a marxist, socialist, terrorist sleeping cell, if he were then the government would OWN these industries. You picked up on this though good work, if you were in 3rd grade. I think it was you who asked how many times I voted for Obama, the answer is 0 I did not vote because both candidates were so appalling that I could not pick between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.
> 
> ...



Spoken like a "Man of the People."  Who is this douchebag?


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 6, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> Uncensored2008, you are as mentally handicapped as Marauder,



I'll take that as a compliment.



> who thinks that posting about how the Tea Party is fascist is fascist because everyone is saying.



You don't know what fascism is. You are an idiot leftist who thinks that your hatred makes the other side "fascist."

Now listen up, stupid - the transfer of trillions of dollars from the public coffers to private looters is fascism.

Who did that? The Tea Parties? Ya fucking moron.








The Tea Parties are PROTESTING the fascist acts, shit fer brains.



> First I did not bring up government bailouts to align them with the Tea Party.



The bailouts are fascism, stupid.



> But to demonstrate how Obama is NOT a marxist, socialist, terrorist sleeping cell



Obama is a fascist, dumbfuck.

He is what you accuse the Tea Party of, stupid.



> I think it was you who asked how many times I voted for Obama, the answer is 0 I did not vote because both candidates were so appalling that I could not pick between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.



Amazing, usually one as stupid as you cast several ballots for Obama..



> 1. Tea Party Leaders want business to be the lone voice of politics in America
> Example: Tea Party supports making unions illegal.



That's a fucking lie.



> 2. Fox News is a right wing propaganda network being used to influence people,



Of course, they fail to be managed by the DNC - SHUT THEM DOWN...



> by telling their viewers what candidates are acceptable to vote for.



Matthews would never do that over at MSDNC..



> 3. The Tea Party is funded by extremely wealthy individuals One of them is Rupert Murdoch, who owns Newcorp, which includes Fox News. Clearly, one mind set is at work.



Do you just make shit up, or are you getting this from a leftist hate site?

You're a fucking moron.


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## Midnight Marauder (Apr 6, 2011)

FuelRod said:


> Spoken like a "Man of the People."  Who is this douchebag?


Some young dumbass kid who cannot dazzle with brilliance, so he tries to baffle with bullshit using long, off-topic, ad hominem, verbose straw man arguments and replies.


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## Midnight Marauder (Apr 6, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> Neither of you have offered evidence to disprove my claim


You have offered NO evidence to support your claim.

It's _your_ claim, it's up to you to back it - not for others to prove a negative.

Another logical fallacy of the lazy and bereft of intellect imbecile such as yourself. You're so ignorant and stupid, you don't even know you're using the worst logical fallacies in existence.


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## hst_patriot (Apr 6, 2011)

Anachronism, you get the prize for having one of the better posts. I understand the grey area, I'll use the union example from my previous post. Unions can do both shitty and good things to his country as can corporations. In American style democracy both factions are supposed to be represented, but not under Tea Party ideas. When I am critical of Fox News, it is because their network takes the stance union bad, corporation good. 

Most people's values are greatly influenced by their family. My political conscious, and my notion of right and wrong come from this group. I am accusing the Tea Party of putting a mask of liberty and democracy over the face of fascism, defining democracy and liberty as what is more commonly defined as fascism. 

Maybe my point is being misinterpreted. Do Tea Party supporters realize they are calling for a fascist US government, and that's what they want, or are they just stupid? It's obvious that fascism is the goal of this organization.

Oh and a P.S. to Uncensored, you should try reading some books, essays actually; _Common Sense_, _Rights of Man_, and _The Age of Reason_, all by Thomas Paine. Also, federalist and anti-federalist papers, by various Founding Fathers. If you actually read them you will find out just how far the Tea Party deviates from the democracy implemented after the American Revolution.


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## hst_patriot (Apr 6, 2011)

Ok Marauder, you have been upgraded to fucktard. I have offered evidence several times. I call you names because you cannot accomplish a task that is required by a 6th grader. Your inability to cite one instance where the Tea Party is not fascist proves this.


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## Midnight Marauder (Apr 6, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> Maybe my point is being misinterpreted. Do Tea Party supporters realize they are calling for a fascist US government, and that's what they want, or are they just stupid? It's obvious that fascism is the goal of this organization.


This is your _opinion_. You have given nothing in the way of evidence to back it.

I have not disagreed with your position. I haven't agreed with it either. Pointing out this same argument has been debated here many times before you again posted it does not mean I disagree with it. Pointing out your logical fallacies does not mean I disagree.

Looks like your skin is as thin as your argument!


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## Midnight Marauder (Apr 6, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> Ok Marauder, you have been upgraded to fucktard. I have offered evidence several times. I call you names because you cannot accomplish a task that is required by a 6th grader. Your inability to cite one instance where the Tea Party is not fascist proves this.


You don't ask people to prove a negative. That's a infantile fallacy.

And again, you have posted NO evidence at all which supports your opinion. You have posted ONLY opinion.

It's still YOUR assertion to prove, not for others to disprove.


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## Midnight Marauder (Apr 6, 2011)

Here's your entire argument in a nutshell:



> An *association fallacy* is an inductive informal fallacy of the type hasty generalization or red herring  which asserts that qualities of one thing are inherently qualities of  another, merely by an irrelevant association. The two types are  sometimes referred to as *guilt by association* and *honor by association*. Association fallacies are a special case of red herring, and can be based on an appeal to emotion.


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## hst_patriot (Apr 6, 2011)

Uncensored: You don't know what fascism is. You are an idiot leftist who thinks that your hatred makes the other side "fascist.""

HST: Ok, why don't you supply a definition. 

Uncensored:Now listen up, stupid - the transfer of trillions of dollars from the public coffers to private looters is fascism.

HST: derp. And so is believing that only business should be represented by government. Give me one instance were the tea party is against this. 

Uncensored: Who did that? The Tea Parties? Ya fucking moron.

HST: Never said they did. Reading comprehension is important. 



Uncensored:The Tea Parties are PROTESTING the fascist acts, shit fer brains.

HST: Untrue, just like everything else in your post.


Uncensored:The bailouts are fascism, stupid.
HST: DERP I said that. Bush is also a fascist by this logic, he bailed them out first. 


Uncensored:Obama is a fascist, dumbfuck.
HST: no he's a pussy

Uncensored:Amazing, usually one as stupid as you cast several ballots for Obama..
That's a fucking lie.

HST: Really? Do you have a polygraph?

Uncensored:Of course, they fail to be managed by the DNC - SHUT THEM DOWN...

HST:your referring to me calling Fox a propaganda network. I don't want the democrats to run things. The US must balance business with human rights, that is what our foundation is about. Read some late 18th early 19th century literature you fucking tool. 

Uncensored: by telling their viewers what candidates are acceptable to vote for.
Matthews would never do that over at MSDNC..

HST: MSNBC sucks too. The difference is Matthews is a liberal being liberal, while tea partiers are fascist pretending to be libertarians. 



> 3. The Tea Party is funded by extremely wealthy individuals One of them is Rupert Murdoch, who owns Newcorp, which includes Fox News. Clearly, one mind set is at work.



Uncensoredo you just make shit up, or are you getting this from a leftist hate site?

HST: No. I got it from the national archive that catalogs campaign contributions. The Tea Party hasn't taken over yet, this is still a democracy. 

Uncensored: You're a fucking moron.[/QUOTE]

HST: If I'm a moron you are a paramecium, do you know what that is?


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## hst_patriot (Apr 6, 2011)

Midnight Marauder said:


> Here's your entire argument in a nutshell:
> 
> 
> 
> > An *association fallacy* is an inductive informal fallacy of the type hasty generalization or red herring  which asserts that qualities of one thing are inherently qualities of  another, merely by an irrelevant association. The two types are  sometimes referred to as *guilt by association* and *honor by association*. Association fallacies are a special case of red herring, and can be based on an appeal to emotion.



If you support the Tea Party you are supporting fascism. You can argue that fascism is a good idea. However, if you tried to do that I would have to remind you that the founding of our constitution is based in democracy. Therefore, there is no place for fascism or the tea party in America, if you support the Tea Party move to China, there nation is much more aligned with tea party ideology.


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## Midnight Marauder (Apr 6, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > Here's your entire argument in a nutshell:
> ...


Actually, it's not. You won't find the words "democracy," "democratic," or even "democrat" anywhere in any of our founding documents.

You WILL however find these in the Federalist Papers, where the framers and founders warned us AGAINST democracy. Unlike you, I have actually read them.

The United States is a representative republic with democratically elected officials. NOT a democracy.


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## Midnight Marauder (Apr 6, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> If you support the Tea Party you are supporting fascism.


Again, your opinion. Which you have offered nothing at all but fallacies of logic, to try to float.


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## hst_patriot (Apr 6, 2011)

And Marauder, you stupid fuck, I have listed evidence, several times. 

The tea party is funded by extremely wealthy people, the most prominent financial supporter of their movement controls a media outlet that makes their values appear as truth while claiming to be "fair and balanced" (Fact: Murdoch is number one contributor to the Tea Party), is an organization that believes one faction; business, industry, corporatists aught to control politics (Example: Wants to make it illegal for workers to have political agency). 

Where is your evidence. Or is your evidence that you are illiterate?


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## Midnight Marauder (Apr 6, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> And Marauder, you stupid fuck, I have listed evidence, several times.
> 
> The tea party is funded by extremely wealthy people, the most prominent financial supporter of their movement controls a media outlet that makes their values appear as truth while claiming to be "fair and balanced" (Fact: Murdoch is number one contributor to the Tea Party), is an organization that believes one faction; business, industry, corporatists aught to control politics (Example: Wants to make it illegal for workers to have political agency).
> 
> Where is your evidence. Or is your evidence that you are illiterate?


You have listed NO evidence. Only appeal to authority and opinion. Your argument not only is horribly flawed, it's also a very OLD allegation, going back at least a couple of years. So, it doesn't even have any originality.

Since I have made NO argument against your premise other than the flawed nature of it which is clearly demonstrated by yourself, I have no need to post any evidence. I have not disagreed with your opinion, only pointed out the flaws in your argument which are many.

In short, you're not convincing at all. And rather repetitious, unoriginal and boring actually. We have at least 100 or so cookie cutter morons just like you posting here. Nothing special.


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## hst_patriot (Apr 6, 2011)

How did you ever pass American history? Oh wait, I forgot that Marauder is a semi functioning retard. You obviously failed it. 

Prior to the American Revolution, poor in England were not represented in Parliament, which is also representative government. The concept of democracy, developed in England first, and later used in the crafting of the Constitution, was elaborated in the belief that every individual has the right to agency in government. So uh yeah, democracy is essential in the foundations of American political philosophy 

Federalist and Anti-Federalist debate is about if the US should be a unified nation or a nation made of separate states. The result was a compromise, i.e. state and federal rights exist in the US. Individuals are promised certain rights to ensure their agency in government by the federal government. Clearly you didn't read, or you had Glen Beck read it when he tucks you in at night. 

Yes it is my opinion that the Tea Party is fascist, but I'm explaining my opinion. You are just making yourself look like an uneducated hillbilly.


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## Rogo (Apr 6, 2011)

Good grief...


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## hst_patriot (Apr 6, 2011)

WOW. I just had an aneurism on account of your stupidity. Just because someone has made an argument before doesn't make it wrong. In fact it demonstrates there is validity to my argument, because I'm NOT the only one who is realizing the fascism in the tea party. You just proved me right again. Thanks.

You offer no definition of fascism and cannot say my logic is flawed because you have not offered any of your own. You assert that because many people on this board agree with me that I am wrong, which seems like flawed logic to me.


PS I am boring because you need to sharpen your reading comprehension, vocabulary, and debate skills. 

PPS You should really run for office as a tea party candidate. You make a nematode appear to be able to solve complex calculus problems, by comparison.


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## Rogo (Apr 6, 2011)

Wait... this is a Tea Party website?


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## hst_patriot (Apr 6, 2011)

FuelRod said:


> Spoken like a "Man of the People."  Who is this douchebag?



I am a libertarian. I believe in the foundations of the Constitution, where individual right is a major construct, for example, the bill of rights. 

I am not denying that industry and a free market are bad. I am arguing, the literature that influenced the writing of the constitution also viewed every citizen has the right to agency in the government.

 Tea Partiers are saying; "we need to give business more leniency," and they don't mean small independent business, they mean big corporate business. "They need these tax breaks," even though the mistakes of those involved with business lead us in to this recession/depression, and contribute to the unemployment rate by moving jobs to China. 

"We need to disband unions, because they hinder business," and that way we can go back to the days when 8 year olds worked in coal mines and textile factories, or when sausages at the supermarket had human fingers in them, and medicine could be toxic. 

The notion that we should allow business to have anymore right than it does now is... well, more retarded than Marauder and Uncensored, and its fascist because individuals have no right to agency, therefore forced to be subservient to a corporate order, with no ability to determine life in this nation, again fascism explained.


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## Anachronism (Apr 6, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> Anachronism, you get the prize for having one of the better posts. I understand the grey area, I'll use the union example from my previous post. Unions can do both shitty and good things to his country as can corporations. In American style democracy both factions are supposed to be represented, but not under Tea Party ideas. When I am critical of Fox News, it is because their network takes the stance union bad, corporation good.



I'm not a Tea Party member, personally. I don't find them to be ACTIVE enough in what they claim to want to do. I'm probably about three or four steps further to the Right of the political spectrum from the Tea Party. To that end, I'll be honest that I'm not terribly interested in open mindedness or debate on socio-political issues.



hst_patriot said:


> Most people's values are greatly influenced by their family. My political conscious, and my notion of right and wrong come from this group. I am accusing the Tea Party of putting a mask of liberty and democracy over the face of fascism, defining democracy and liberty as what is more commonly defined as fascism.



I will agree with you that the Tea Party should be more open about what their true interests are. Then again I've never been accused of being a major proponent of Liberty or Democracy. I'm an Authoritarian at heart. Not quite too the level of Fascism, but not all that far away either.



hst_patriot said:


> Maybe my point is being misinterpreted. Do Tea Party supporters realize they are calling for a fascist US government, and that's what they want, or are they just stupid? It's obvious that fascism is the goal of this organization.



I can't speak for the Tea Party, but as for those of us who I would call Conservatives, I would suggest that YES we are well aware that what we're talking about is Authoritarianism. Unfortunately at this time and with the current citizenry/population of this country I/We don't see any other way to straighten things out.


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## Midnight Marauder (Apr 6, 2011)

You continue to try to baffle with bullshit, because you cannot dazzle with brilliance. You are a ideologue idiot, and have no redeeming characteristics in discussion whatsoever.





hst_patriot said:


> WOW. I just had an aneurism on account of  your stupidity. Just because someone has made an argument before doesn't  make it wrong. In fact it demonstrates there is validity to my  argument, because I'm NOT the only one who is realizing the fascism in  the tea party. You just proved me right again. Thanks.
> 
> You offer no definition of fascism and cannot say my logic is flawed  because you have not offered any of your own. You assert that because  many people on this board agree with me that I am wrong, which seems  like flawed logic to me.
> 
> ...






hst_patriot said:


> FuelRod said:
> 
> 
> > Spoken like a "Man of the People."  Who is this douchebag?
> ...





hst_patriot said:


> I am not denying that industry and a free market are bad. I am arguing, the literature that influenced the writing of the constitution also viewed every citizen has the right to agency in the government.
> 
> Tea Partiers are saying; "we need to give business more leniency," and they don't mean small independent business, they mean big corporate business. "They need these tax breaks," even though the mistakes of those involved with business lead us in to this recession/depression, and contribute to the unemployment rate by moving jobs to China.
> 
> ...


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## hst_patriot (Apr 6, 2011)

Marauder,  you just don't understand because you have an intelligence deficit greater than the budget deficit. 
Why is this bullshit, not brilliance? Why am I an ideologue idiot? Explain yourself. 

You spew diarrhea from your mouth and claim its a symphony. I am calling you a retard because you fail to back up your opinion with logic. You need to explain why and maybe you will develop an intelligent thought.


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## hst_patriot (Apr 6, 2011)

Anachronism said:


> I can't speak for the Tea Party, but as for those of us who I would call Conservatives, I would suggest that YES we are well aware that what we're talking about is Authoritarianism. Unfortunately at this time and with the current citizenry/population of this country I/We don't see any other way to straighten things out.



What needs to be straightened out? The economy? Deviance? I'm not trying to imply there are no problems. But please specify why authoritarianism is necessary.


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## Midnight Marauder (Apr 6, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> Marauder,  you just don't understand because you have an intelligence deficit greater than the budget deficit.
> Why is this bullshit, not brilliance? Why am I an ideologue idiot? Explain yourself.
> 
> You spew diarrhea from your mouth and claim its a symphony. I am calling you a retard because you fail to back up your opinion with logic. You need to explain why and maybe you will develop an intelligent thought.


You're just a gnat. Not annoying eough to swat, like a fly, just a very generic gnat and we definitely have alot of them here. You're no different, and certainly not original.


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## hst_patriot (Apr 6, 2011)

Never claimed to be original, actually I've been claiming to be imitating the ideas that influenced the Constitution, which is over 200 years old, very unoriginal. However, unoriginal as it may be, its democracy. I'm annoying? That's not logic. That's being pissed off that you continue to embarrass yourself. 

You know you are incapable of debate. I'm trying to have a debate about fascism and why some people think it's acceptable in American, which is a monumentally important issue. You are making a mockery of this debate by complaining about that people are opposed the hypocrisy of the right. 

I annoy you because I can employ logic in my argument, generally when others cannot employ logic in their own argument they become annoyed.

You do not annoy me. I find your stupidity amusing. You've literally spent all day embarrassing yourself. You failed to quit while you were ahead. My advice is to read about logic, reason, and debate, and maybe next time you won't expose your ignorance.


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## Anachronism (Apr 7, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> What needs to be straightened out? The economy? Deviance? I'm not trying to imply there are no problems. But please specify why authoritarianism is necessary.



What DOESN'T need to be straightened out? I could write several "War and Peace" sized books on what is wrong with our society, our economy, our culture, etc.... I'd be here writing for the rest of my life. I'd rather get to the heart of your last sentence instead, because the rest of it is really just padding for the arguement.

Authoritarianism is necessary because the American people do not have the heart, the guts, the brains, or most importantly the backbone to do what it is going to take to straighten this country out. The American people have become SOFT. The Greatest Generation has to be spinning like gyroscopes in their graves, nevermind what the Founders must think of us. We are no longer willing to do the HARD thing simply because it's the RIGHT thing to do. No, instead we look for the EASY way out. Even if it's not what is in our overall or long-term best interest. 

This country was founded by a bunch of Men who made a very naive assumption.... The idea that morals, values, and decency were the foundation of the governmental system and society/culture *and that they would remain that way in perpetuity*. They made this assumption because the morals and values they lived under were the same ones that had been in place almost world-wide for several hundred years at least. The societal and social structure was pretty well set in stone and they didn't expect that to change. To that end they failed to include the Duties and Responsibilities of a Citizen along with the Rights and Privileges of one in our Founding Documents.  

Morals and values are no longer part of our society or culture. They have been abandoned and tossed aside, and it is destroying the social and cultural fabric of this country and taking the economy with it. There are really only three groups that can control the morals and values of a society.... Family/society is the best of the three options and the one that was most at play in the time of our Founders. Religion is the second, and it played a large part in that day and age as well. Government is the least preferable of the options and the one the Founders prefered to stay away from. Family/society no longer chooses to teach or enforce any level of moral standard. Religion is no longer a major factor in American society. That leaves only Government to enforce those standards, without which the entire fabric and foundation of this country crumble away and we cease to exist.

Basically what I'm saying is that the American people are too STUPID, SLOVENLY, LAZY, GLUTONOUS, and IMMORAL to be allowed to rule themselves anymore. MAYBE, at some point in the future they could be allowed to return to some active participation in their own governance, but not until they have proven a much greater capability for choosing RIGHT over EASY at a 100% rate.


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## Wry Catcher (Apr 7, 2011)

"This may surprise most educated people. One of the more common government strategies today, especially in developing regions is fascism. Fascism is commonly confused with Nazism.  Nazism is a political party platform that embraces a combination of a military dictatorship, socialism and fascism.  It is not a government structure. Fascism is a government structure. The most notable characteristic of a fascist country is the separation and persecution or denial of equality to a specific segment of the population based upon superficial qualities or belief systems.  

Simply stated, a fascist government always has one class of citizens that is considered superior (good) to another (bad) based upon race, creed or origin.  It is possible to be both a republic and a fascist state. The preferred class lives in a republic while the oppressed class lives in a fascist state. 

Fascism is commonly defined as an open terror-based dictatorship which is: 

Reactionary: makes policy based upon current circumstances rather than creating policies to prevent problems; piles lies and misnomers on top of more lies until the truth becomes indistinguishable, revised or forgotten. 

Chauvinistic: Two or more tiered legal systems, varying rights based upon superficial characteristics such as race, creed and origin. 

Imperialist elements of finance capital: Extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political domination of one state over its allies. 

Though a dictatorship is the most common association with fascism, a democracy or republic can also be fascist when it strays away from its Tenets of sovereignty.  In the 20th Century, many Fascist countries started out as republics.  Through the use of fear, societies gave up their rights under the guise of security.  Ultimately these republics morphed into Fascist states."

Link:  Definition of Fascism: What it is, how to recognize it and the key principles behind it


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## hst_patriot (Apr 7, 2011)

Good Job Anachronism, you exhibited logic and reason, unlike Marauder who should examine your debate skills that way he won't look so stupid next time. 

1. I would argue that American's are lazy because of the "Advertising Lullaby" (George Carlin). We have become obsessed with obtaining material goods, over taking pride in our work. This is a result of business. The motivation to succeed in America, and I am generalizing, is to buy a better TV, etc. Goods here are made cheap, brake quickly, and sold expensively to maximize profit, i.e. planed and perceived obsolescence.

 Citizens are lazy because our dominant class determines value by meaningless wealth assets. Advertising in America perpetuates the belief that material represents value instead of determination. 

I need to elaborate, I am not a marxist. I believe if you do a more difficult job you should be paid more; Mopping floors is vastly less difficult than performing surgery, that's why janitors make less than doctors. 

If Americans are lazy because of the values of the authoritarians you support. 

The founding fathers stated in the Constitution that Americans had the right to alter government if it becomes tyrannical; an excessive power of authority. With respect to individual rights, means that one group does not get to dominate power in America. 

You say this is naive, I say when individuals have agency in in government society becomes stronger. Different factions are allowed to represent their interest, and are able to argue their position. When "the facts are in", as they say, informed decisions can be made because whatever the issue is, its effects on all groups can be considered. 

Morals and values do exist in America, its just that conservatives believe every citizen should adhere to their ideology. We should all be Christian, kiss the feet of our corporate masters even though they want us to pay for their mistakes, and support ANY military action by the US. 

My morals and values are determined by the Constitution and my family and friends. I do not subscribe to the belief their is ONE correct way to view the world, neither does my family and constitution. History has proved this because different cultures have existed. You say you want authoritarianism to straighten America out, that is untrue, you want ultimate authoritarianism, you just don't want people to know they are living under an authoritarian. 

 "Basically what I'm saying is that the American people are too STUPID, SLOVENLY, LAZY, GLUTONOUS, and IMMORAL to be allowed to rule themselves anymore." - Anachronism

The most lazy, stupid and gluttonous are the people with the most agency in government and society. 
 To be apolitical: 

   The Kennedys, I'm sure you are aware of their history and why they match your description of Americans.

The Bushes, George was accepted to Yale because he was a legacy, and graduated on because he was a legacy. He did not work hard to get where he did, just as you would say about the Kennedys. 

The people at the top, the authoritarians, are STUPID, SLOVENLY, LAZY, GLUTONOUS, and IMMORAL to rule over us.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 7, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> HST: Ok, why don't you supply a definition.



Learn to back-quote, stupid. It isn't that hard.
*
Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.* - Benito Mussolini

Read more: Benito Mussolini Quotes - BrainyQuote

No doubt you will argue - you are a dumbass after all, but must of us view Mussolini as authoritative on the subject of Fascism. 



> HST: derp. And so is believing that only business should be represented by government.



I know of no group that holds such a stance. 



> Give me one instance were the tea party is against this.



Give me one instance where the democratic party is against raping 3 year old boys?

See, when you make a claim (I am NOT claiming this of the democrats, BTW) YOU have to prove your claim. I have no need to prove your claim false.



> Never said they did. Reading comprehension is important.



You claimed (ignorantly) that the Tea Parties are fascist. I've presented overwhelming and irrefutable evidence to the contrary.



> Untrue, just like everything else in your post.



What the fuck?

Are you on drugs?


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 7, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> And Marauder, you stupid fuck, I have listed evidence, several times.



No, you have not - you lying fucking troll.



> The tea party is funded by extremely wealthy people,



Even if true, it has nothing to do with fascism.



> the most prominent financial supporter of their movement controls a media outlet that makes their values appear as truth while claiming to be "fair and balanced" (Fact: Murdoch is number one contributor to the Tea Party)



Provide a citation backing this up.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 7, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> I am a libertarian.



No you're not, you're a lying douchebag.


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## Anachronism (Apr 7, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> I would argue that American's are lazy because of the "Advertising Lullaby" (George Carlin). We have become obsessed with obtaining material goods, over taking pride in our work. This is a result of business. The motivation to succeed in America, and I am generalizing, is to buy a better TV, etc. Goods here are made cheap, brake quickly, and sold expensively to maximize profit, i.e. planed and perceived obsolescence.



All true, to some degree or another. That's also one of the things we need to change in our society... this idea of a disposable society. One of the ways to change that would be to return to a CASH society; to do away with credit cards and the lack of responsibility that they tend to engender in society. The other way is to return to an Isolationist society where those cheap foreign products are no longer available in the marketplace.



hst_patriot said:


> Citizens are lazy because our dominant class determines value by meaningless wealth assets. Advertising in America perpetuates the belief that material represents value instead of determination.
> 
> I need to elaborate, I am not a marxist. I believe if you do a more difficult job you should be paid more; Mopping floors is vastly less difficult than performing surgery, that's why janitors make less than doctors.


 
True again. Which is why we need to return to a morals and values based society rather than a wealth based one. The doctor in your example has a higher moral value to society than the janitor as well as his financial value. It takes a person of generally better character to undertake the medical profession than the janitorial one (not to say that janitors can't have high morals and values) as the necessity to make split-second life or death decisions is much higher in the medical field, as is the potential to do serious harm. Only when we are willing and able to look at the candidates for a job and say... "You're better qualified, but he has the better character so we're hiring HIM." will this sort of thing start to change. 



hst_patriot said:


> If Americans are lazy [it's] because of the values of the authoritarians you support.



I'm not quite sure how you're seeing that. Could you explain that a little more. thanks.



hst_patriot said:


> The founding fathers stated in the Constitution that Americans had the right to alter government if it becomes tyrannical; an excessive power of authority. With respect to individual rights, means that one group does not get to dominate power in America.
> 
> You say this is naive, I say when individuals have agency in in government society becomes stronger. Different factions are allowed to represent their interest, and are able to argue their position. When "the facts are in", as they say, informed decisions can be made because whatever the issue is, its effects on all groups can be considered.


 
No, I'm not saying that's naive. What I'm saying is naive is their idea that morality and values would remain the cornerstones of society and the government without it being specifically required in the founding documents. They looked at the best in people when they should have been looking at the worst; because that is the common denominator that will always come to the forefront in any situation.



hst_patriot said:


> Morals and values do exist in America, its just that conservatives believe every citizen should adhere to their ideology. We should all be Christian, kiss the feet of our corporate masters even though they want us to pay for their mistakes, and support ANY military action by the US.



I would suggest that you have a very narrow vision of Conservatism. I'm a Pagan (grew up Christian); I have no use for government subsidies of ANY industry or business, and was absolutely LIVID when the former POTUS decided to bail out the banks. Oh, and I support our troops overseas (including my cousin) while still believing we shouldn't be in Iraq or Afghanistan. I'm just not going to abuse the troops for following orders like my father was abused when he returned from Vietnam.

However, you are right that Conservatives do believe that there is a single ideology and believe system that this country is supposed to run on. It's not of our choosing.... it's the one the Founders built this country on for the most part. 



hst_patriot said:


> My morals and values are determined by the Constitution and my family and friends. I do not subscribe to the belief their is ONE correct way to view the world, neither does my family and constitution. History has proved this because different cultures have existed. You say you want authoritarianism to straighten America out, that is untrue, you want ultimate authoritarianism, you just don't want people to know they are living under an authoritarian.


 
I agree there is more than one way to view the world. There is the American Way and there are all the other ways. What I want is the American Way to be the only acceptable way here in the United States. People would be more than welcome to leave the country if they didn't agree with it. 

Different cultures have existed over time. However when you look at the truly successful cultures, nations, religions, and philosophies over time you find that they all have a lot in common. Those commonalities are what I have termed "Universal Morality" and they're the basis for true Conservatism so far as I'm concerned. 

I've never tried to hide that I'm an Authoritarian, and that is my prefered style of government.  



hst_patriot said:


> The most lazy, stupid and gluttonous are the people with the most agency in government and society.
> To be apolitical:
> 
> The people at the top, the authoritarians, are [too] STUPID, SLOVENLY, LAZY, GLUTONOUS, and IMMORAL to rule over us.



The people at the top have become simply a reflection of the people below them. That was never the intent of the Founders. Their intent was to send the best and brightest from among the population to serve for limited periods of time, constantly refreshing with new ideas while maintaining the solid foundation of morals and values. We now send anyone with enough money and charisma to win an election. That's not what was intended at all.


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## hst_patriot (Apr 7, 2011)

Uncensored2008 said:


> hst_patriot said:
> 
> 
> > HST: Ok, why don't you supply a definition.
> ...



Yes, this is my definition of fascism. I am arguing that right wingers are attempting to merge state and corporate powers, by removing the individual agency in government. When you have a party that supports making unions illegal, and attempts to remove images hard working lower class people from the American narrative. 

An example, Maine governor, Paul LePage, remove a mural of hardworking lower class members of society. The state, in this instance Maine, is determining that the image of a hard working labor class, one with power to influence corporatists for right, does not hold agency in the state. Corporate power is exhibited because removing the image of unions, and preaching its all about business, allows corporatism to dominate the political scene. 




> No doubt you will argue - you are a dumbass after all, but must of us view Mussolini as authoritative on the subject of Fascism.



I assume by "must of us", you mean most of us. I would agree Mussolini as an authority on fascism. You are retarded plain and simple if you fail to see that removing collective bargaining rights of a particular class of people is fascist. 



> HST: derp. And so is believing that only business should be represented by government.





> I know of no group that holds such a stance.



The Tea Party believes this. They do not want a specific class of people to be able to participate in government, i.e. the working poor, because if workers demand higher wages because they cannot afford the essentials; food, shelter, clothing, those at the top of the hierarchy make less money. Right wingers cast the working poor as a terrible monster, bent on destroying America, when in reality the working poor are driven further in to debt because they cannot afford, monetarily, to live in the US. 

The notion that its socialist for workers to desire enough reward for their labor to live a basic life is false. Socialism would gives the government full control of production, democracy allows workers to say, "I'm not being treated fairly", which can then be evaluated by congress, with respect to either state or federal government, and this is synonymous with American concepts of liberty. 

Quote: "Liberty is a concept in political philosophy that identifies the condition in which human beings are able to govern themselves, to behave according to their own free will, and take responsibility for their actions."
If the right opposes a lesser class being active politically, they are opposed to liberty. They are not letting human beings govern themselves, but corporatism to govern human beings, there is no free will. 




> Give me one instance where the democratic party is against raping 3 year old boys?
> See, when you make a claim (I am NOT claiming this of the democrats, BTW) YOU have to prove your claim. I have no need to prove your claim false.





> You claimed (ignorantly) that the Tea Parties are fascist. I've presented overwhelming and irrefutable evidence to the contrary.



No you haven't. I said give me an example where the tea party supports individual rights. Your example was: "Give me one instance where the democratic party is against raping 3 year old boys?"
That is not an example, and is irrelevant to the debate. We are not discussing democrats, we are discussing fascism. Your example does not illustrate the tea party being un-fascist, it actually makes you look like a fascist. You do not say the tea party is not fascist because... or yes the tea party is fascist/authoritarian, but thats ok because...

What your example does illustrate, is you being unable to create intelligent thought or debate. You may resubmit an example of the tea party supporting liberty, or argue why fascism is ok. Your example makes an earthworm appear to have superior debating skill. 



> Untrue, just like everything else in your post.





> What the fuck?


I am saying that you are fucking dumb, and that your are not accurate towards this discussion. 



> Are you on drugs?


Responsible drug use is not wrong. Those who posses liberty may do as they please, but must accept the consequences. Drug abuse and a addiction, similar to alcohol, is a personal issue that is not up to a nation to dictate what should be done with these people, but their families. Furthermore, and I am making an assumption you may correct me if necessary, I'm sure you drink alcohol, at least on occasion. 
What is the difference between drinking a few beers at a family reunion, for example, and smoking a joint in the same context? 

Claiming its ok to think sober, or drunk, but not think under conditions of thought, is essential fascist because it dictates how individuals can perceive reality.  No I am not on drugs, nor was I last night, except for caffeine. You make the assumption that only high people are against your politics. You are stupid.


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## hst_patriot (Apr 7, 2011)

Uncensored2008 said:


> hst_patriot said:
> 
> 
> > And Marauder, you stupid fuck, I have listed evidence, several times.
> ...



Provide a citation backing this up.[/QUOTE]


It does when the network under discussion, News Corp., does not make the public aware of its political allies. Keith Olbermann was suspended for making campaign contributions, which demonstrates his alignment with the left, and his bias is identified. Fox would never attack one of their anchors for donating to a conservative. 

Fox News hides their bias. They never mention that Murdoch, who owns News Corp., contributes to the right. His network glorifies the right without attempting to explain why they are in the right, viewers are supposed to take it as fact.

Furthermore, Sean Hannity donates more to conservative organizations than Olbermann does to liberal organizations. This is not to suggest one is better than the other, they are the same stink from different shits. However, it demonstrates Fox's political bias. 

Keith Olbermann suspended for making political donations - Chicago Sun-Times

The article below feature Fox News' VP admitting he knowingly lied about Obama being a socialist. If he admits to lying, in order to force views to agree with Fox, that is fascist. 

Fox News Veep Admits Lying About Obama 'Socialist' Charge

If News Corp fails to identify themselves as right wing, and claims to be "fair and balanced", they are saying we are representing each argument equally. Furthermore, a network is NOT fair and balanced if their VP admits to knowingly publishing false claims. This is forcing people to believe you are right does not provide alternate views to become balanced, and that is called fascism you fucking asshole.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 7, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> Yes, this is my definition of fascism. I am arguing that right wingers are attempting to merge state and corporate powers, by removing the individual agency in government.



Then you are simply stupid.



> When you have a party that supports making unions illegal,



No one supports that, you're just a fucking liar.



> You are retarded plain and simple if you fail to see that removing collective bargaining rights of a particular class of people is fascist.



From government employees, stupid fuck. No one has said a word against private industry workers having unions - you're just a shameless fucking liar. 



> The Tea Party believes this.



You're a fucking liar.

As such, you're not worth bothering with.


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## hst_patriot (Apr 7, 2011)

Anachronism, The value of material goods is held by the upper tear of our hierarchy, think about the lavish spending of the most wealthy. Their values determine ours because we are in their system. I do not define this as wrong. What I am arguing is that the upper tear is not fulfilling their obligation to care for our citizens. In capitalism industry is the structure that propels the economy, opposed to socialism which is the government. If the economy is bad business is responsible, to boost it. History proves, look up history of workers rights and corporate abuse on google, that left to their own design business will not represent individual rights.

I feel that individual rights allow a more successful society, it boosts competition, which if you know anything about capitalism leads to a good economy. We cannot have a strong economy without individual right.


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## Anachronism (Apr 7, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> Anachronism, The value of material goods is held by the upper [tier] of our hierarchy, think about the lavish spending of the most wealthy. Their values determine ours because we are in their system. I do not define this as wrong. What I am arguing is that the upper [tier] is not fulfilling their obligation to care for our citizens. In capitalism industry is the structure that propels the economy, opposed to socialism which is the government. If the economy is bad business is responsible, to boost it. History proves, look up history of workers rights and corporate abuse on google, that left to their own design business will not represent individual rights.
> 
> I feel that individual rights allow a more successful society, it boosts competition, which if you know anything about capitalism leads to a good economy. We cannot have a strong economy without individual right.



Ok. Why should a corporation pay an employee more than it has to? Why should they provide benefits that they don't have to? I'm not against Unions (hell, I'm in one, and a departmental Steward), but there are many cases where Unions are not appropriate and/or they demand much more than is reasonable from the company. 

Personally, I believe that the means to correct the issues you're talking about is a simple one.... Isolationism. Tell these companies that they're either AMERICAN companies or they're Foreign companies. American companies are incorporated, headquartered, and run out of the United States. Their product is made in the US by US Citizens and sold to US Citizens. If they produce more than the American market needs, great. They can export it to any country that is willing to take it. However if there is ever a shortage they must meet US market demand before ANY units are sent overseas.

As for the "responsibility" of the wealthy to provide for others.... I tend to disagree. It is no more the "responsibility" of someone making $6 Million a year to provide food, shelter, clothing, etc... for someone who is a drug user, a high school dropout, etc... than it is for me, making $63K to do so. Those people have made their choices in life and are dealing with the consequences of such in many cases.

Like me, the wealthy should be picking and choosing their opportunities to do charitable things. I give to organizations that require those who they help to be helping themselves (getting off drugs, finding a job, etc...). That means the donations are few and far between coming from me. Instead I prefer to help my immediate family, friends, and associates in their times of need so they don't have to go to the government for assistance because I already know that they're worthy of my help.


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## Old Rocks (Apr 7, 2011)

del said:


> the book sucked
> 
> ayn rand sucked
> 
> you suck



Heresy, heresy!!!!


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## lehr (May 27, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> There are so many because the Tea Party _IS_ fascist. Do a little research instead of blindly following what some people say. You will find that your party is fascist. I am from a conservative libertarian family, raised to be conservative. However, I was not raised to blindly follow the words of TV personalities. I dare you to takes some time and read three pages of the documents tea party supporters use to convey their message, then examine the party's political actions, and the end result is that the Tea Party does not support liberty, freedom, and democracy, but fascism instead.



" hell to pay "  by  barb  olson  

" bill klinton had a nanny listed as a security guard "  p. 136  = we even had to pay for his sex !

" hillarys prof at yale was called (tommy the commie) tom emerson "  p. 54

" hillary protested everything from lack of tampons in womans rooms to the viet-nam war "  p. 54

" hillary at yale - sandals - stringy hair - coke bottle glasses and black arm band for kent state "  mp. 54 

" hillary joining the marines in 1975 was a joke among her friends "  p. 7  - it was their way of celebrating communist victory in viet-nam that year 

" hillary talkied about adopting a baby just to soften her healthcare image "  p. 2  = it worked = amerikans love to be fooled by communists !

" hillary knew bill was a serial sexual predator "  p. 212

" every school dist in arkansas was under hillarys thumb - because of her 57% of arkansas college freshmen had to take remedial classes "   p. 229

" hillary used hyponosis to talk to mrs. roosevelt "  p. 313 = now she is sec. of state - : (


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## Ringel05 (May 27, 2011)

hst_patriot said:


> "*Fascism s a radical, authoritarian nationalist political ideology. Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy.They advocate the creation of a totalitarian single-party state*"
> -Turner, Henry Ashby. Reappraisals of Fascism. *&* Larsen, Stein. Who were the Fascists Fascists: social roots of European Fascism. p. 424."organized form of integrative radical nationalist authoritarianism"
> 
> What party does this sound like?
> ...



Oh look!  Another complete and total idiot who takes sound bites, selectively quotes, claims to "think for himself" and derides those who don't agree as unthinking dupes or Fascists.  Like we don't have enough of those already.


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