# Off-duty LAPD officer fatally shot while house-hunting with girlfriend



## Otis Mayfield (Jan 12, 2022)

The shooting unfolded Monday evening in the 1700 block of East 87th Street in unincorporated Los Angeles, the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department, which is leading the investigation, said.

Los Angeles Police Department Chief Michel Moore told members of the Board of Police Commissioners Tuesday that Arroyos was killed during a gunfight with 3 men who tried to rob him.

The police officer had been looking at a home to buy with his girlfriend when the couple was approached by the alleged robbers, two of whom opened fire, detectives told NBC Los Angeles.

Arroyos told his girlfriend to run and exchanged gunfire with the suspects, but was struck, they said.

Moore told board members the officer had a "bright future" that was "taken away" in a street robbery.









						Off-duty LAPD officer fatally shot while house-hunting with girlfriend, police say
					

Fernando Arroyos, 27, died Monday. Four people have been arrested, the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department said.




					www.nbcnews.com
				





Like a lot of these stories, there's not a lot of details.

Is it better to give crooks your money or to try to shoot it out with them?

If you're using a gun for self-defense?

Even the worst shot can occasionally hit someone right between the eyes.

RIP


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## marvin martian (Jan 12, 2022)

Otis Mayfield said:


> The shooting unfolded Monday evening in the 1700 block of East 87th Street in unincorporated Los Angeles, the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department, which is leading the investigation, said.
> 
> Los Angeles Police Department Chief Michel Moore told members of the Board of Police Commissioners Tuesday that Arroyos was killed during a gunfight with 3 men who tried to rob him.
> 
> ...



LA (and all of California) is a lawless shithole because of people like you.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 12, 2022)

Otis Mayfield said:


> The shooting unfolded Monday evening in the 1700 block of East 87th Street in unincorporated Los Angeles, the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department, which is leading the investigation, said.
> 
> Los Angeles Police Department Chief Michel Moore told members of the Board of Police Commissioners Tuesday that Arroyos was killed during a gunfight with 3 men who tried to rob him.
> 
> ...



So, citizens should be disarmed and let the police protect them.

But police should just submit to the criminals....

At times, I don't think you fascists have our best interests in mind.....


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## Otis Mayfield (Jan 12, 2022)

Uncensored2008 said:


> So, citizens should be disarmed and let the police protect them.
> 
> But police should just submit to the criminals....
> 
> At times, I don't think you fascists have our best interests in mind.....



The off-duty cop wasn't unarmed. He took a risk, and it didn't pan out.

You could almost say that if he didn't have a gun, he'd be alive today, maybe $50 pooer.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 12, 2022)

Otis Mayfield said:


> The off-duty cop wasn't unarmed. He took a risk, and it didn't pan out.
> 
> You could almost say that if he didn't have a gun, he'd be alive today, maybe $50 pooer.



Always rooting for the criminals.

Back in the old days, LAPD had a motto; "To serve and protect."

You have a new motto - "To cower and submit"


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Jan 12, 2022)

Unfortunate, but Firestone Park is kind of a crummy neighborhood.  I wonder why he'd want to live there.


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## AMart (Jan 12, 2022)

Otis Mayfield said:


> The off-duty cop wasn't unarmed. He took a risk, and it didn't pan out.
> 
> You could almost say that if he didn't have a gun, he'd be alive today, maybe $50 pooer.


The just comply with criminals BS that was started back in the 70's is what led to massive spikes in crime. There is no evidence that these perps would have let them them go, they might have killed both the cop and his girlfriend. She got away because he protected her.


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## AMart (Jan 12, 2022)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Unfortunate, but Firestone Park is kind of a crummy neighborhood.  I wonder why he'd want to live there.


Likely the only hood he could afford.


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## Otis Mayfield (Jan 12, 2022)

AMart said:


> The just comply with criminals BS that was started back in the 70's is what led to massive spikes in crime. There is no evidence that these perps would have let them them go, they might have killed both the cop and his girlfriend. She got away because he protected her.



While the crooks may have murdered him even if he did willingly give over his money.

They usually don't.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 12, 2022)

AMart said:


> Likely the only hood he could afford.



He was a cop. They make good money.


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## AMart (Jan 12, 2022)

Uncensored2008 said:


> He was a cop. They make good money.


He looked young. Starting pay is likely 60-70K. IDK how people can afford a 500K home on that salary to begin with.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 12, 2022)

AMart said:


> He looked young. Starting pay is likely 60-70K. IDK how people can afford a 500K home on that salary to begin with.



$83K for LAPD. Add in overtime and it's well over $100K

It's very doable.


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## Captain Caveman (Jan 12, 2022)




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## AMart (Jan 12, 2022)

Uncensored2008 said:


> $83K for LAPD. Add in overtime and it's well over $100K
> 
> It's very doable.


Not bad at all.


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## marvin martian (Jan 12, 2022)

Uncensored2008 said:


> $83K for LAPD. Add in overtime and it's well over $100K
> 
> It's very doable.



Sadly, that's barely middle class in LA.


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## M14 Shooter (Jan 12, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> View attachment 587093


Why didn't CA's draconian "common sense gun control laws" prevent this from happening?


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## Mac-7 (Jan 12, 2022)

Otis Mayfield said:


> The shooting unfolded Monday evening in the 1700 block of East 87th Street in unincorporated Los Angeles, the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department, which is leading the investigation, said.
> 
> Los Angeles Police Department Chief Michel Moore told members of the Board of Police Commissioners Tuesday that Arroyos was killed during a gunfight with 3 men who tried to rob him.
> 
> ...


Another interesting detail might be the immigration status of the robbers and prior criminal record


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## marvin martian (Jan 12, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> Another interesting detail might be the immigration status of the robbers and prior criminal record



This tidbit from the article tells me everything I need to know about the perps:

_Five adults — three males and two females — have been detained the investigation, but none have been charged with the murder, according to the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Office. _*Their names were not released.*


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## Captain Caveman (Jan 12, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Why didn't CA's draconian "common sense gun control laws" prevent this from happening?


Cos you guys need more guns so this incident wouldn't have happened


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## Mac-7 (Jan 12, 2022)

marvin martian said:


> Their names were not released.





marvin martian said:


> This tidbit from the article tells me everything I need to know about the perps:
> 
> _Five adults — three males and two females — have been detained the investigation, but none have been charged with the murder, according to the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Office. _*Their names were not released.*


If they were wearing MAGA hats the lib news media would be reporting their life history by now


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## marvin martian (Jan 12, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> If they were wearing MAGA hats the lib news media would be reporting their life history by now



Yup, with pictures. The lack of names and photos in this story is a dead giveaway.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 12, 2022)

marvin martian said:


> Sadly, that's barely middle class in LA.



I'm guessing he was looking to flip or buy a rental. I doubt he wanted to live there.









						706 E 87th St, Los Angeles, CA 90002 | Zillow
					

Zestimate® Home Value: $245,687. 706 E 87th St, Los Angeles, CA is a apartment home that contains 800 sq ft and was built in 1948. It contains 2 bedrooms and 1 bathroom.    The Rent Zestimate for this home is $2,106/mo, which has decreased by $104/mo in the last 30 days.




					www.zillow.com


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 12, 2022)

marvin martian said:


> Yup, with pictures. The lack of names and photos in this story is a dead giveaway.



Given the neighborhood, most likely Mexicans.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 12, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Cos you guys need more guns so this incident wouldn't have happened



That makes no sense.

I get you're stupid - you're a Nazi after all. But that makes no sense. The most anti-gun state in the union with the most restrictive gun laws.

Why did they do NOTHING to stop this?

Simple, because anti-gun laws have nothing to do with safety and are ONLY about crushing civil rights.


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## M14 Shooter (Jan 12, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Cos you guys need more guns so this incident wouldn't have happened


I accept your concession of the point.


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## Captain Caveman (Jan 12, 2022)

Uncensored2008 said:


> That makes no sense.
> 
> I get you're stupid - you're a Nazi after all. But that makes no sense. The most anti-gun state in the union with the most restrictive gun laws.
> 
> ...


"More guns" is the answer from the gun nuts. They feel that to resolve the gun problem, you to increase the thing that's the problem.

If you're gonna use the word Nazi, at least insert a fucking brain so you know what you're on about, you fucking retard.


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## AZrailwhale (Jan 12, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> "More guns" is the answer from the gun nuts. They feel that to resolve the gun problem, you to increase the thing that's the problem.
> 
> If you're gonna use the word Nazi, at least insert a fucking brain so you know what you're on about, you fucking retard.


Law abiding citizens with guns aren't the problem.  Career criminals with guns are the problem.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 12, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> "More guns" is the answer from the gun nuts.



"Less freedom" is the answer from fascist vermin.

You've taken freedom, but it did NOTHING to make people safer.



Captain Caveman said:


> They feel that to resolve the gun problem, you to increase the thing that's the problem.





I set a 9mm out over a year ago, and it still hasn't gone out and killed anyone.

Maybe it's defective?



Captain Caveman said:


> If you're gonna use the word Nazi, at least insert a fucking brain so you know what you're on about, you fucking retard.



"insert a fucking brain?"

Wow, you are a level of retard not seen in a long time.

Look, the only reason I refer to you fascist democrat vermin as "Nazis" is because, well, you're Nazis.


democrats have a scapegoat based on race. Whites are the new "Juden."
democrats are collectivist, seeking control of the means of production by their Reich.
democrats are totalitarian. Well duh.
democrats supplant civil rights with group privilege
democrats eradicate the rule of law and create dictatorship based on the party
democrats forcibly suppress religion
democrats crush freedom of speech
democrats create a police state and "Roger Stone" enemies for even minor process crimes in order to create terror


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## Captain Caveman (Jan 12, 2022)

Uncensored2008 said:


> "Less freedom" is the answer from fascist vermin.
> 
> You've taken freedom, but it did NOTHING to make people safer.
> 
> ...


But I UK conservative? Thick c***.


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## M14 Shooter (Jan 12, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> "More guns" is the answer from the gun nuts. They feel that to resolve the gun problem, you to increase the thing that's the problem.


You still havent told us how/why CA's draconian "common sense" gun laws did not prevent this.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 12, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> But I UK conservative? Thick c***.




Wow, is that supposed to mean something?

You are severely retarded.


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## Captain Caveman (Jan 12, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> You still havent told us how/why CA's draconian "common sense" gun laws did not prevent this.


More guns is the answer. Loads, tons, lots.


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## Captain Caveman (Jan 12, 2022)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Wow, is that supposed to mean something?
> 
> You are severely retarded.


You thought I was a US Democrat, you fucking pillock. Now you're trying to sound hard to get out of your dumb comment. Do you know how hard you are? Solid bone from the neck up.

America is fucked with guns. America was founded on violence, violence is your culture. Guns are everywhere, guns are unregulated everywhere. Kids blowing each other's brains out, kids at school blasting their school mates away. And the gun nut answer? More guns. You can't get anymore stupid than that.

Guns in America are juxtaposed to IQ. As gun ownership goes up, IQ comes down. And you in particular are doing a sterling effort.


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## M14 Shooter (Jan 12, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> More guns is the answer. Loads, tons, lots.


For the third time in one day, I accept you concession.
When you finally think you can us how/why CA's draconian "common sense" gun laws did not prevent this - let us know.


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## M14 Shooter (Jan 12, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> You thought I was a US Democrat, you fucking pillock. Now you're trying to sound hard to get out of your dumb comment. Do you know how hard you are? Solid bone from the neck up.
> Guns in America are juxtaposed to IQ. As gun ownership goes up, IQ comes down. And you in particular are doing a sterling effort.


Why does insulting people make you feel better?


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## Captain Caveman (Jan 12, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> For the third time in one day, I accept you concession.
> When you finally think you can us how/why CA's draconian "common sense" gun laws did not prevent this - let us know.


For the third time today, more guns gun nut.


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## Captain Caveman (Jan 12, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Why does insulting people make you feel better?


Seems to be the American way, so I'm getting involved. I treat others as they treat me. So if anyone wonders...they should pause and examine themselves. The retard in question thought he was big and set off on the usual dumb Nazi route. Very simple.


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## marvin martian (Jan 12, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> More guns is the answer. Loads, tons, lots.



In the hands of law-abiding citizens, yes. In places run by DemoKKKrats, law-abiding citizens are denied the right to own firearms, while criminals can have all they want. Hence the daily slaughter in those shitholes.


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## Captain Caveman (Jan 12, 2022)

marvin martian said:


> In the hands of law-abiding citizens, yes. In places run by DemoKKKrats, law-abiding citizens are denied the right to own firearms, while criminals can have all they want. Hence the daily slaughter in those shitholes.


Unfortunately, life doesn't work like that. Law abiding people can go un-law abiding. Criminals is a small statistic with the gun issue.


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## M14 Shooter (Jan 12, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Seems to be the American way, so I'm getting involved.


So...  you can't tell us why insulting others makes you feel better.
This doesn't bother you?


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## M14 Shooter (Jan 12, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> For the third time today, more guns gun nut.


Yes, yes, I know - you can't tell us how/why CA's draconian "common sense" gun laws did not prevent this.
We got it.
Thanks.


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## Captain Caveman (Jan 12, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> So...  you can't tell us why insulting others makes you feel better.
> This doesn't bother you?


You should know, I just do what you guys do.


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## Captain Caveman (Jan 12, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Yes, yes, I know - you can't tell us how/why CA's draconian "common sense" gun laws did not prevent this.
> We got it.
> Thanks.


More guns needed.


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## marvin martian (Jan 12, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Unfortunately, life doesn't work like that. Law abiding people can go un-law abiding. Criminals is a small statistic with the gun issue.



Sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Jan 12, 2022)

Otis Mayfield said:


> The shooting unfolded Monday evening in the 1700 block of East 87th Street in unincorporated Los Angeles, the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department, which is leading the investigation, said.
> 
> Los Angeles Police Department Chief Michel Moore told members of the Board of Police Commissioners Tuesday that Arroyos was killed during a gunfight with 3 men who tried to rob him.
> 
> ...


It's all situational.  You have to think in tactical terms:

Nearest cover to me, nearest cover to them.

How many assailants?

Are they armed?

Do they look like they can handle themselves?

Sometimes the odds just are in your favor a giving them your billfold is the best bet.

If it looks like they're going to kill you anyway, then there is only one thing do.

Three armed robbers?  I'm going to throw them my billfold at them and hopefully they leave.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Jan 12, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Cos you guys need more guns so this incident wouldn't have happened


That's right.  More armed citizens means these three goofballs might have been smoked a long time ago.  But, instead, they meet little to no resistance and operate with near impunity.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Jan 12, 2022)

Uncensored2008 said:


> So, citizens should be disarmed and let the police protect them.
> 
> But police should just submit to the criminals....
> 
> At times, I don't think you fascists have our best interests in mind.....


Ya think?...lol


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Jan 12, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> "More guns" is the answer from the gun nuts. They feel that to resolve the gun problem, you to increase the thing that's the problem.
> 
> If you're gonna use the word Nazi, at least insert a fucking brain so you know what you're on about, you fucking retard.


There is no "gun problem".  We have a criminal problem.  A problem that has been exacerbated by Left wing politicians and their stupid anti-cop policies.


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## whitehall (Jan 12, 2022)

He wasn't shot while "house hunting". He was shot and killed in a robbery attempt. How does this incident qualify as a 2nd Amendment issue?


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Jan 12, 2022)

whitehall said:


> He wasn't shot while "house hunting". He was shot and killed in a robbery attempt. How does this incident qualify as a 2nd Amendment issue?


A robbery, while he was house hunting.


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## bodecea (Jan 12, 2022)

marvin martian said:


> LA (and all of California) is a lawless shithole because of people like you.


We know you couldn't make it in California....jelly.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Jan 12, 2022)

bodecea said:


> We know you couldn't make it in California....jelly.


Wouldn't wanna try...lol


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jan 12, 2022)

Otis Mayfield said:


> The off-duty cop wasn't unarmed. He took a risk, and it didn't pan out.
> 
> You could almost say that if he didn't have a gun, he'd be alive today, maybe $50 pooer.



   It sure sounds like the trash opened fire first.


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## AZrailwhale (Jan 12, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Unfortunately, life doesn't work like that. Law abiding people can go un-law abiding. Criminals is a small statistic with the gun issue.


Criminals are about ninety percent of the gun problem, most of the rest is suicide.  Law abiding citizens are one or two percent.  So criminals aren’t “a small statistic with the gun issue”


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## M14 Shooter (Jan 12, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> More guns needed.


There's no need for you to further surrender the point.
We got it.


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## M14 Shooter (Jan 12, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> You should know, I just do what you guys do.


You still haven't answered the question:
Why does insulting people make you feel better?


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## braalian (Jan 13, 2022)

Too bad there’s a moratorium on executions in California.


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## theHawk (Jan 13, 2022)

Otis Mayfield said:


> ou could almost say that if he didn't have a gun, he'd be alive today, maybe $50 pooer.


Or he’d be dead anyway and his gf raped and/or murdered.


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## CrusaderFrank (Jan 13, 2022)

Murder during a robbery used to get you the death penalty. 

Now,  they'll all get bailed out by Kamala


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## braalian (Jan 13, 2022)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Murder during a robbery used to get you the death penalty.
> 
> Now,  they'll all get bailed out by Kamala


If you kill someone during a robbery, and it’s proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, you should be shot in the back of the head execution-style within hours of the guilty verdict. Serve as a deterrent to armed robbery plus save the taxpayers some money.

And if you commit armed robbery but don’t hurt anyone it should still be an automatic life sentence. Zero tolerance and the thugs will be too terrified to even attempt an armed robbery.


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## CrusaderFrank (Jan 13, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> You thought I was a US Democrat, you fucking pillock. Now you're trying to sound hard to get out of your dumb comment. Do you know how hard you are? Solid bone from the neck up.
> 
> America is fucked with guns. America was founded on violence, violence is your culture. Guns are everywhere, guns are unregulated everywhere. Kids blowing each other's brains out, kids at school blasting their school mates away. And the gun nut answer? More guns. You can't get anymore stupid than that.
> 
> Guns in America are juxtaposed to IQ. As gun ownership goes up, IQ comes down. And you in particular are doing a sterling effort.


Why can't we have sensible gun control like Mao's China, Stalin's USSR or Hitler's Germany? Those Progressive leaders disarmed their citizens, shouldn't everyone?


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## Abatis (Jan 13, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> You still haven't answered the question:
> Why does insulting people make you feel better?



That kind of rote insult repetition from unhinged anti-gunners (especially nosy Tommy's) isn't real argumentation; it has nothing to do with any attempt to actually rebut or refute any particular philosophical or constitutional American gun rights argument.  

It's *only* purpose is the tortured affirmation of an authoritarian premise in a timid mind accustomed to the subjugation of the UK government . . .  Hence the aggressive projection..

.


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## 2aguy (Jan 13, 2022)

Otis Mayfield said:


> The shooting unfolded Monday evening in the 1700 block of East 87th Street in unincorporated Los Angeles, the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department, which is leading the investigation, said.
> 
> Los Angeles Police Department Chief Michel Moore told members of the Board of Police Commissioners Tuesday that Arroyos was killed during a gunfight with 3 men who tried to rob him.
> 
> ...





Each Robbery is a different animal........you don't know how it will happen, whether rape, or murder will be part of the robbery.....what you do know, if you don't have a gun, the entire sequence of events will be under the control of a criminal...who has already shown they are willing to threaten to cripple or murder you if you do not comply...

If you want to put your life in the hands of a violent criminal...allow him to decide whether you are injured, raped or murdered........that is your call......you don't have a Right to determine how others choose to protect themselves...



These people did not have guns and complied...

*The Brown's Chicken Massacre was a mass murder that occurred on January 8, 1993 in Palatine, Illinois, when two robbers killed *seven employees at a Brown's Chickenfast-food restaurant.






						Brown's Chicken massacre - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




*Their crime spree culminated on December 14, when the Carrs invaded a home and subjected five young men and women to robbery, sexual abuse, and murder. The brothers broke into a house chosen nearly at random where Brad Heyka, Heather Muller, Aaron Sander, Jason Befort and his girlfriend, a young woman identified as 'H.G.', all in their twenties, were spending the night. They were all working adults: Befort was a local high school teacher; Heyka, a director of finance with a local financial services company; Muller, a local preschool teacher; and Sandler, a former financial analyst who had been studying to become a priest. H.G. is a teacher.*
*
The Carrs initially scoured the house for valuables. H.G. learned of Befort's intent to propose marriage to her when the Carrs discovered the engagement ring he had hidden in a can of popcorn. After the search, the Carrs forced their hostages to strip naked, bound and detained them, and subjected them to various forms of sexual abuse, including rape and oral sex.[7] The brothers forced the men to engage in sexual acts with the women, and the women with each other. They drove the victims to ATMs to empty their bank accounts, before taking them to a snowy deserted soccer complex on the outskirts of town. There they shot the five execution-style in the backs of their heads. The Carr brothers drove Befort's truck over the bodies and left them for dead.
*
*H.G. survived her head wound at the soccer field because her plastic barrette deflected the bullet. After the killers left, she walked naked for more than a mile in freezing weather to seek first aid and shelter at a house. Before getting medical treatment, she reported the incident and descriptions of her attackers to the couple who took her in, even before the police arrived.*






						Wichita Massacre - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				





These people had guns and fought back......

*Investigators said an 80-year-old Pensacola, Florida, man walked outside to lock his cars just after 11 p.m. Tuesday when two males approached him and demanded his car, WEAR-TV reported.*
*One of the suspects pulled a gun on the elderly victim, WKRG-TV reported.
But it turns out their target came prepared. Police said the homeowner grabbed his concealed weapon — for which he has a permit — and opened fire, WEAR reported.
Both suspects ran off, WKRG said, adding that one of the victims turned up at a house with a gunshot wound. The second suspect got away, WEAR reported.
--------
Well, it looks like both suspects have an opportunity to step back and evaluate their life choices, now doesn’t it?*
*------
After all, bad guys are predators. They like to look for easy prey, people like 80-year-old guys in Florida.

And that’s why owning and carrying a gun is so important.

Even an armed criminal is likely to run from an armed citizen defending themselves. While I often point out that bad guys set the terms of engagement, the truth is that the armed citizen is likely the more tenacious side. After all, escape is usually not really an option for the armed citizen. They have their lives to defend.

Putting up a fight really does seem to be the best option when faced with an armed criminal, and this gentleman did fight. As a result, he went home that night and at least one of the thugs went to the hospital. Sure, another got away, but he’s going to have that memory of damn near being lit up by some old guy who didn’t want to give up his cars or his life.
Guns don’t make men evil. They don’t create criminals where none existed previously. They do, however, give people who may not be physically able to meet physical threats an edge that allows them to protect themselves.*
80-Year-Old Armed Citizen Teaches Carjackers Valuable Life Lesson

Suspect Puts Gun to Man's Head Only to Flee Scene Under Barrage of Bullets

*A suspect put a gun to a man’s head on Thursday only to flee under a barrage of bullets after the would-be victim pulled his own gun and opened fire.*​*
The incident occurred in Philadelphia’s West Oak Lane.

According to 6 ABC, Rahkeim Kelly was “headed home from buying a soda” when the suspect in a hoodie approached and put a gun to his head. Kelly managed to move away quickly, take cover behind a car, draw his own gun, and open fire.

The suspect, 22-year-old Osirus Lester, fled the scene.

Kelly said, “I fired two shots first, then he tried to take off running. I fired one more, then he ended up dropping the gun. He ran off and I just went and secured the weapon.”
Lester was arrested within minutes with a gunshot wound to his wrist.

Philadelphia Police Capt. Sekou Kinnebrew said, “[Kelly] does have a valid permit to carry. We checked that out. He’s the victim of a robbery. He did attempt to retreat, taking cover behind a car. But the offender continued to aggress, and (the victim) had to defend himself.”*
*=====================*

81-year-old homeowner fatally shoots armed robber

*A suspect was shot and killed when he tried to rob an 81-year-old man at gunpoint outside of the man’s home in Genoa, Arkansas, on Thursday afternoon.

Buddy Cates told KSLA that he walked outside of his home around 1:30 p.m. and came face to face with the suspect, who authorities are still working to identify.

Cates said the suspect was holding a “big pistol,” but Cates also had his hand in his pocket, gripping his own gun.

“The battle was one,” Cates recalled, noting that, between the two, at least a dozen shots were fired.

“Whoever got the biggest gun and fastest will be boss when it is all said and done,” Cates said. “In this case, it was me.”

Cates was uninjured, but the suspect died after he was taken to a hospital in Texarkana, not far from Cates’ home.

After the attempted robbery and subsequent shooting, three women were arrested in connection to the crime, according to reports from the Texarkana Gazette. Kiana Keshaun Montgomery, 21; Shaynesha Martin, 19; and Ke’Erica Turner, 20, are all facing charges for aggravated robbery and are being held at the Miller County Detention Center. Authorities did not say what part the women played in the robbery or whether they are believed to be responsible for other crimes.*


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## 2aguy (Jan 13, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Cos you guys need more guns so this incident wouldn't have happened




You mean like this....none of these people had guns....how did it turn out for them....

The Brown's Chicken Massacre was a mass murder that occurred on January 8, 1993 in Palatine, Illinois, when two robbers killed seven employees at a Brown's Chickenfast-food restaurant.

Brown's Chicken massacre - Wikipedia​


Their crime spree culminated on December 14, when the Carrs invaded a home and subjected five young men and women to robbery, sexual abuse, and murder. The brothers broke into a house chosen nearly at random where Brad Heyka, Heather Muller, Aaron Sander, Jason Befort and his girlfriend, a young woman identified as 'H.G.', all in their twenties, were spending the night. They were all working adults: Befort was a local high school teacher; Heyka, a director of finance with a local financial services company; Muller, a local preschool teacher; and Sandler, a former financial analyst who had been studying to become a priest. H.G. is a teacher.

The Carrs initially scoured the house for valuables. H.G. learned of Befort's intent to propose marriage to her when the Carrs discovered the engagement ring he had hidden in a can of popcorn. After the search, the Carrs forced their hostages to strip naked, bound and detained them, and subjected them to various forms of sexual abuse, including rape and oral sex.[7] The brothers forced the men to engage in sexual acts with the women, and the women with each other. They drove the victims to ATMs to empty their bank accounts, before taking them to a snowy deserted soccer complex on the outskirts of town. There they shot the five execution-style in the backs of their heads. The Carr brothers drove Befort's truck over the bodies and left them for dead.
H.G. survived her head wound at the soccer field because her plastic barrette deflected the bullet. After the killers left, she walked naked for more than a mile in freezing weather to seek first aid and shelter at a house. Before getting medical treatment, she reported the incident and descriptions of her attackers to the couple who took her in, even before the police arrived.

Wichita Massacre - Wikipedia​


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## 2aguy (Jan 13, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> "More guns" is the answer from the gun nuts. They feel that to resolve the gun problem, you to increase the thing that's the problem.
> 
> If you're gonna use the word Nazi, at least insert a fucking brain so you know what you're on about, you fucking retard.




Hey...moron....how do you explain the fact that as more Americans bought, and even carried guns...our gun murder and gun crime rates went down, not up?

Over the last 27 years,  up to the year 2015, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

*Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.*


This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

Why do our democrat party controlled cities have gun crime problems?

1) the democrat party keeps releasing violent gun offenders...they have created a revolving door for criminals who use guns, and will release even the most serious gun offenders over and over again....why?   Probably because they realise that normal people don't use their guns for crime, so if they want to push gun control, they need criminals to shoot people.....so they keep releasing them....

2)  The democrat party keeps attacking the police.....driving the officers into not doing pro-active policing, cutting detective forces so that murders go unsolved..........


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## 2aguy (Jan 13, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> You thought I was a US Democrat, you fucking pillock. Now you're trying to sound hard to get out of your dumb comment. Do you know how hard you are? Solid bone from the neck up.
> 
> America is fucked with guns. America was founded on violence, violence is your culture. Guns are everywhere, guns are unregulated everywhere. Kids blowing each other's brains out, kids at school blasting their school mates away. And the gun nut answer? More guns. You can't get anymore stupid than that.
> 
> Guns in America are juxtaposed to IQ. As gun ownership goes up, IQ comes down. And you in particular are doing a sterling effort.




Says the individual claiming to be British......the home of the trans-atlantic slave trade, the persecution of Catholics, Imperialism, colonialism..............


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## 2aguy (Jan 13, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> For the third time today, more guns gun nut.




Explain this...

Over the last 27 years,  up to the year 2015, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

*Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.*


This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

Why do our democrat party controlled cities have gun crime problems?

1) the democrat party keeps releasing violent gun offenders...they have created a revolving door for criminals who use guns, and will release even the most serious gun offenders over and over again....why?   Probably because they realise that normal people don't use their guns for crime, so if they want to push gun control, they need criminals to shoot people.....so they keep releasing them....

2)  The democrat party keeps attacking the police.....driving the officers into not doing pro-active policing, cutting detective forces so that murders go unsolved..........


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## 2aguy (Jan 13, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Unfortunately, life doesn't work like that. Law abiding people can go un-law abiding. Criminals is a small statistic with the gun issue.




Answer these....

*A woman is grabbed by a violent serial rapist at a bus stop, a train platform or in her apartment...he plans on beating, raping and murdering her. She has a gun, and can stop the rape with the gun......

Do you want her to use that gun to stop the rape?

A woman stops an attack with a gun, a brutal rape, torture and murder...in a public space....if you had the ability to go back in time, and prevent her from having that gun...would you?
=======

The British government will not allow a woman to own and carry a gun to prevent being gang raped in a London park.....saying she does not have "good reason," to own the gun.

A member of the House of Lords wants to quail hunt with his rich friends on his private country estate, and the British government gives him the gun....because he has "good reason."

Does this make sense to you?*


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## beautress (Jan 13, 2022)

Otis Mayfield said:


> The shooting unfolded Monday evening in the 1700 block of East 87th Street in unincorporated Los Angeles, the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department, which is leading the investigation, said.
> 
> Los Angeles Police Department Chief Michel Moore told members of the Board of Police Commissioners Tuesday that Arroyos was killed during a gunfight with 3 men who tried to rob him.
> 
> ...


When murderous animals roam the street, the local government needs to fix the problem. That isn't being done in LA due to murderous animals roaming the streets. Corruption is full circle in LA. Prayers up for the family, friends, and those who work with Officer Arroyos. It is a tremendous loss to society when a law man is murdered by crimnals.


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## Captain Caveman (Jan 13, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Answer these....
> 
> *A woman is grabbed by a violent serial rapist at a bus stop, a train platform or in her apartment...he plans on beating, raping and murdering her. She has a gun, and can stop the rape with the gun......
> 
> ...


I'll answer them. YOU and you fellow countrymen are FUCKING PUSSIES. You've got fucking tiny pricks and need to walk around with guns for protection.  You fucking piss poor cowards. In the UK, you don't walk around with guns, we don't perceive enemies killing us. Guess what? We must be harder than you pussies, you wouldn't survive here 5 mins, changing your diaper every second as you shit yourself.

And guess what again? We have criminals too, but just like most of yours, they're not armed to the teeth.

Gun nuts are mentally ill and fucking retarded. You have an ill view of the world and need psychiatric help.

I hope that answers your dilemma


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 13, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> You thought I was a US Democrat, you fucking pillock. Now you're trying to sound hard to get out of your dumb comment. Do you know how hard you are? Solid bone from the neck up.



What dumb comment? If you're a Paki from the UK who basically doesn't speak English, what fucking business is it of yours what we do?



Captain Caveman said:


> America is fucked with guns.



You're fucked up with stupidity.



Captain Caveman said:


> America was founded on violence, violence is your culture. Guns are everywhere, guns are unregulated everywhere.



This is why you need to fuck off, you have no clue what you're babbling about.



Captain Caveman said:


> Kids blowing each other's brains out, kids at school blasting their school mates away. And the gun nut answer? More guns. You can't get anymore stupid than that.



Like I said Paki, this is none of your affair.

Fuck off.



Captain Caveman said:


> Guns in America are juxtaposed to IQ. As gun ownership goes up, IQ comes down. And you in particular are doing a sterling effort.



Inverse relationship?

What is your IQ, 40? I understand that is the mean IQ of Paki's in the UK.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 13, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> For the third time today, more guns gun nut.



Learn English.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 13, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> There is no "gun problem".  We have a criminal problem.  A problem that has been exacerbated by Left wing politicians and their stupid anti-cop policies.



We also have a Hollywood problem, where violence is glorified and romanticized.


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## EvilCat Breath (Jan 13, 2022)

Otis Mayfield said:


> The off-duty cop wasn't unarmed. He took a risk, and it didn't pan out.
> 
> You could almost say that if he didn't have a gun, he'd be alive today, maybe $50 pooer.


No. He would still be dead.  You aren't one of those slobs that actually think complying will save your life?    Get a clue.


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## marvin martian (Jan 13, 2022)

bodecea said:


> We know you couldn't make it in California....jelly.



LOL! ^^^Look at this retard, he's actually proud of the sky-high murder rate in his shithole city.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Jan 13, 2022)

Otis Mayfield said:


> The off-duty cop wasn't unarmed. He took a risk, and it didn't pan out.
> 
> You could almost say that if he didn't have a gun, he'd be alive today, maybe $50 pooer.



You could also say he would have been murdered anyway.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Jan 13, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> If they were wearing MAGA hats the lib news media would be reporting their life history by now


They would also be considered domestic terrorists.


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## 2aguy (Jan 13, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> I'll answer them. YOU and you fellow countrymen are FUCKING PUSSIES. You've got fucking tiny pricks and need to walk around with guns for protection.  You fucking piss poor cowards. In the UK, you don't walk around with guns, we don't perceive enemies killing us. Guess what? We must be harder than you pussies, you wouldn't survive here 5 mins, changing your diaper every second as you shit yourself.
> 
> And guess what again? We have criminals too, but just like most of yours, they're not armed to the teeth.
> 
> ...




Wow......you are dumb.......


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## M14 Shooter (Jan 13, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> I'll answer them. YOU and you fellow countrymen are FUCKING PUSSIES. You've got fucking tiny pricks and need to walk around with guns for protection.  You fucking piss poor cowards.


Why does insulting people make you feel better?


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## Mac-7 (Jan 13, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> They would also be considered domestic terrorists.


True


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## Captain Caveman (Jan 13, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Wow......you are dumb.......


Seriously, would you survive living in the UK?


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## Captain Caveman (Jan 13, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Why does insulting people make you feel better?


In my alerts, there were loads from pro gunners. So I thought I would change tact, hence that insult post, hence the near silence now.

Very logical really. Tighter gun control in the UK, Australia etc.. results in much lower gun crime than the US, per capita. Quite hard to do something if it's harder to get the tools for the job. You certainly still get incidents, but our gun laws certainly reduce these incidents. Not rocket science, is it  A quick Google of gun incidents here, all the articles state shotguns.

The size of guns in America makes concealed carry easy, plus with the number of guns, I imagine would be muggers have a gun. 

And an off duty cop has become a victim of the 2nd Amendment.


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## M14 Shooter (Jan 13, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> In my alerts, there were loads from pro gunners. So I thought I would change tact, hence that insult post, hence the near silence now.


This -still- does not explain why insulting people make you feel better.


Captain Caveman said:


> Very logical really. Tighter gun control in the UK, Australia etc.. results in much lower gun crime than the US, per capita.


Please demonstrate the necessary relationship you claim between the gun laws in those countries and their lower-than-us- rates of gun violence.


Captain Caveman said:


> And an off duty cop has become a victim of the 2nd Amendment.


You cannot demonstrate this to be true.


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## Captain Caveman (Jan 13, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> This -still- does not explain why insulting people make you feel better.
> 
> Please demonstrate the necessary relationship you claim between the gun laws in those countries and their lower-than-us- rates of gun violence.
> 
> You cannot demonstrate this to be true.


In Brit speak, "You are not a full shilling".


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## M14 Shooter (Jan 13, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> In Brit speak, "You are not a full shilling".


There you go, insulting people again.    Why does this make you feel better?

And, since you didn't even -try- to demonstrate the necessary relationship you claim, I'll chalk it up to the fact you know you cannot.
Same for your claim that this officer was a victim of the 2nd -- in fact I'll bet you can't explain how he could -conceptually- be a victim of the 2nd, let alone  demonstrate that he was.

Feel free to try to prove me wrong.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 13, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Seriously, would you survive living in the UK?



Is it that violent where you're at? I know the Muslim areas in Birmingham are dangerous shitholes. Fist time I was in Birmingham I went to a park with a fairly cool walkway they called a subway, about every 50 yards was a sign saying "beware of muggers."  Something we don't really have to worry about here.


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## AZrailwhale (Jan 21, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Seriously, would you survive living in the UK?


Why would any sane person want to?  The weather sucks, the people have bad teeth, and you still imagine yourselves to be a first world country.


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