# There Are Far More Defensive Gun Uses Than Murders in America. Here's Why You Rarely Hear of Them.



## Doc7505 (Sep 22, 2021)

There Are Far More Defensive Gun Uses Than Murders in America. Here's Why You Rarely Hear of Them.​








						There Are Far More Defensive Gun Uses Than Murders. Here's Why You Rarely Hear of Them.
					

While Americans know that guns take many innocent lives every year, many don’t know that firearms also save them. On May 15, an attacker at an apartment complex in Fort Smith, Ark., fatally




					www.realclearinvestigations.com
				




While Americans know that guns take many innocent lives every year, many don’t know that firearms also save them.
On May 15, an attacker at an apartment complex in Fort Smith, Ark., fatally shot a woman and then fired 93 rounds at other people before a man killed him with a bolt-action rifle. Police said he “likely saved a number of lives in the process.” 
On June 30, a 12-year-old Louisiana boy used a hunting rifle to stop an armed burglar who was threatening his mother’s life during a home invasion.
On July 4, a Chicago gunman shot into a crowd of people, killing one and wounding two others before a concealed handgun permit holder shot and wounded the attacker. Police praised him for stepping in.
These are just a few of the nearly 1,000 instances reported by the media so far this year in which gun owners have stopped mass shootings and other murderous acts, saving countless lives. And crime experts say such high-profile cases represent only a small fraction of the instances in which guns are used defensively. But the data are unclear, for a number of reasons, and this has political ramifications because it seems to undercut the claims of gun rights advocates that they need to possess firearms for personal protection -- an issue now before the Supreme Court.
Americans who look only at the daily headlines would be surprised to learn that, according to academic estimates, defensive gun uses — including instances when guns are simply shown to deter a crime — are four to five times more common than gun crimes, and far more frequent than the fewer than 20,000 murders each year, with or without a gun. But even when they prevent mass public shootings, defensive uses rarely get national news coverage. Those living in major news markets such as New York City, Washington, D.C., and Los Angeles are unlikely to hear of such stories.
~Snip~
Take the fatal shooting of two at the West Freeway Church of Christ near Fort Worth, Texas, in December 2019, for example. The media covered this attack, but repeatedly described the parishioners who stopped further bloodshed as “security guards.” “These were not security professionals, just members of the church designated as security personnel as a kind of honorary title,” Jack Wilson, the church member credited with stopping the attack, told RCI. Wilson said that 19 to 20 members of the congregation were armed, but that neither he nor the church monitored who was carrying.

Comment:
You would think that the American people would prefer to hear/see stories like these. That is just not the case. They want to see hatred. They want to see the worst of human interaction. We have been so indoctrinated into violence (video games and TV) that we come to expect it like it was our evening meal.  
Typically the Media say's 'If it bleeds it reads'. So why would they ever give the public the truth? Rather they would go along with Socialist power grabbing ideology.


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## rightwinger (Sep 22, 2021)

NRA Fantasy


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## DukeU (Sep 22, 2021)

Guns save more lives than they take. Many more.

Fact Sheet: Guns Save Lives | GOA - Gun Owners​


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## rightwinger (Sep 22, 2021)

DukeU said:


> Guns save more lives than they take. Many more.
> 
> Fact Sheet: Guns Save Lives | GOA - Gun Owners​



Of the 2.5 million times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, the overwhelming majority merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers. Less than 8% of the time, a citizen will kill or wound his/her attacker.[3]

Gun  owner fantasy of “scaring away bad guys”


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## DukeU (Sep 22, 2021)

rightwinger said:


> Of the 2.5 million times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, the overwhelming majority merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers. Less than 8% of the time, a citizen will kill or wound his/her attacker.[3]
> 
> Gun owner fantasy of “scaring away bad guys”



Pretty effective eh. You don't even have to fire the weapon to save a life.

Don't you wish all tools were that effective?!? Imagine pulling out your hammer and the nails just jump into the boards.


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## DukeU (Sep 22, 2021)

rightwinger said:


> Of the 2.5 million times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, *the overwhelming majority merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers*. Less than 8% of the time, a citizen will kill or wound his/her attacker.[3]
> 
> *Gun owner fantasy of “scaring away bad guys”*


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## PoliticalChic (Sep 22, 2021)

DukeU said:


> Guns save more lives than they take. Many more.
> 
> Fact Sheet: Guns Save Lives | GOA - Gun Owners​





The fact can easily be brought home: ask one of the hand-wringing gun-grabbers which gun laws or regulations, criminals obey.


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## M14 Shooter (Sep 22, 2021)

DukeU said:


>


You know he's just going to lie to you - right?


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## DukeU (Sep 22, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> You know he's just going to lie to you - right?



Where did he go?


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## ThunderKiss1965 (Sep 22, 2021)

rightwinger said:


> Of the 2.5 million times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, the overwhelming majority merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers. Less than 8% of the time, a citizen will kill or wound his/her attacker.[3]
> 
> Gun  owner fantasy of “scaring away bad guys”


So statistics are a fantasy ?


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## Man of Ethics (Sep 24, 2021)

Justifiable homicide is relatively rare.  Here.

According to the table on p.6, less then 1.1% of people attacked have defended themselves with firearms.


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## M14 Shooter (Sep 24, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> Justifiable homicide is relatively rare.  Here.


The number of justified homicides is meaningless.
People use firearms to defend themselves >10x more often than they are used to commit murder and 4.5x more often than to commit suicide.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Sep 27, 2021)

rightwinger said:


> Of the 2.5 million times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, the overwhelming majority merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers.



Unlikely.  The judicial system typically views warning shots as careless behavior that could fall under the definition of unlawful use of deadly force, and common sense indicates a warning shot merely gives an attacker a extra chance to shoot/knife/bludgeon you.


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## Otis Mayfield (Sep 27, 2021)

You show a man your gun to scare him off.

He shoots you dead.

It's likely he'll get off because he was defending himself.

I do think there's a passive benefit to guns where no gun is ever seen or maybe there wasn't even a gun present. It's a person who is thinking of wrong doing but then thinks that his target may be armed and he decides not to act.

But everyone benefits from that, gun or no gun.


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## Blues Man (Sep 27, 2021)

rightwinger said:


> NRA Fantasy


This may be hard for you to believe but the vast majority of gun owners have no desire to shoot anyone.

A gun is nothing but a last resort insurance policy.


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Sep 29, 2021)

rightwinger said:


> Of the 2.5 million times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, the overwhelming majority merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers. Less than 8% of the time, a citizen will kill or wound his/her attacker.[3]


Sounds like it worked.  

Just because somebody doesn't get killed does not mean the gun was not used defensively.


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Sep 29, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> This may be hard for you to believe but the vast majority of gun owners have no desire to shoot anyone.


That was true for me for a long time.    Now?


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Sep 29, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> You show a man your gun to scare him off.
> 
> He shoots you dead.
> 
> ...


Why are you showing somebody your gun to scare him off?  What did he do to cause you to be in fear for your safety?


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## Batcat (Sep 29, 2021)

Doc7505 said:


> There Are Far More Defensive Gun Uses Than Murders in America. Here's Why You Rarely Hear of Them.​
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The liberal media hates the fact that civilians can own firearms in this nation. Therefore they push stories where guns are misused and ignore stories where guns are used to save lives.


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## Doc7505 (Sep 29, 2021)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> Why are you showing somebody your gun to scare him off?  What did he do to cause you to be in fear for your safety?



The idea of carrying a concealed weapon is just that. You don't pull or expose the weapon until you are prepared and ready to use it. Exposing the fact that you possess the firearm opens you  to dangers.

I'll give you an example... I know a retire Leo that was in a traffic jam because a "woman" was triple parked in NYC. He got out of his vehicle and approached the triple park car and asked the woman to move her car. his jacket was open and the "woman" saw his weapon called the police and claimed he harassed and threatened her with the gun.  P.S. Case closed the gun was confiscated and the guy lost his privilege to carry a concealed weapon. Why because the "woman" saw his holstered weapon from under his jacket and claimed he was harassing.
If you're carrying in summertime always keep your concealed weapon to the rear and back of your strong side.  Tip if you're a right use a left handed inside the belt holster.


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## candycorn (Sep 30, 2021)

Doc7505 said:


> There Are Far More Defensive Gun Uses Than Murders in America. Here's Why You Rarely Hear of Them.​
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is one dipshit  (2aguy) that says there are a million defensive gun uses every year... actually it is a million and a half.

Before you answer...

Lets look at it visually... 1.5M defensive gun uses.... 

See all these people?  


  How many of them would it take to equal 1.5 Million?  

If you said this many 

 you're wrong...not enough





If you said this many: 

, you're still wrong. Still not enough.


If you said this many.....

  You're still wrong. Still not enough.

This is how many it would take to equal that silly statistic:




plus




There are 50,000 people in each picture.  It would take 30 Snyder Stadiums to equal a supposed one year of defensive gun uses....  

Again...do you think that this many people a year are having a shoot out?


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## M14 Shooter (Sep 30, 2021)

candycorn said:


> Again...do you think that this many people a year are having a shoot out?


As if your failure to understand the issue wasn't already obvious enough.
Hint:  Nothing about a defensive use of a firearm necessitates that said firearm be fired.


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## 2aguy (Sep 30, 2021)

candycorn said:


> There is one dipshit  (2aguy) that says there are a million defensive gun uses every year... actually it is a million and a half.
> 
> Before you answer...
> 
> ...




And instead of your photos....I give you the actual research...from both public and private research groups, the majority of them anti-gun in nature.......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense 

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and  Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million  averaged over  those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*2021 national firearms survey..

The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,*
*----
The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.
2021 National Firearms Survey*


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## candycorn (Sep 30, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> As if your failure to understand the issue wasn't already obvious enough.
> Hint:  Nothing about a defensive use of a firearm necessitates that said firearm be fired.



A "gun use" doesn't mean using the gun?


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## candycorn (Sep 30, 2021)

2aguy said:


> And instead of your photos....I give you the actual research...from both public and private research groups, the majority of them anti-gun in nature.......
> 
> A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
> 
> ...


Yeah, my photos prove just how laughable your yarn is about over a million defensive gun uses in a year. PS: You yourself said there were like 343 gun uses that resulted in an "attacker" being killed...Meaning that about 1.4797 million were bad shots.


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## M14 Shooter (Sep 30, 2021)

candycorn said:


> A "gun use" doesn't mean using the gun?


Why do you think the only way to use a gun on self-defense is to shoot someone with it?


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## M14 Shooter (Sep 30, 2021)

candycorn said:


> PS: You yourself said there were like 343 gun uses that resulted in an "attacker" being killed...Meaning that about 1.4797 million were bad shots.


^^^^
It may very well be that this message board has yet to see a statement more ignorant than this


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## 2aguy (Sep 30, 2021)

candycorn said:


> A "gun use" doesn't mean using the gun?



moron, it doesnt mean you have to fire the gun for the criminal to stop the attack as you know.  You then play stupid….


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## 2aguy (Sep 30, 2021)

candycorn said:


> There is one dipshit  (2aguy) that says there are a million defensive gun uses every year... actually it is a million and a half.
> 
> Before you answer...
> 
> ...



There are over 330 million people in the U.S.


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## candycorn (Sep 30, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> Why do you think the only way to use a gun on self-defense is to shoot someone with it?



No of course not.  

But I think it's hilarious when you attribute statistically how many crimes DID NOT HAPPEN when the gun wasn't used. How did you know the crime was going to happen?  How do you know what type of crime was supposedly prevented?  Are we talking about assault or criminal trespassing?


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## M14 Shooter (Sep 30, 2021)

candycorn said:


> No of course not.


Your inane rhetoric says otherwise.


candycorn said:


> But I think it's hilarious when you attribute statistically how many crimes DID NOT HAPPEN when the gun wasn't used


The issue is crimes stopped WITH the defensive use of a gun.
Instances where the gun was not used are immaterial.


candycorn said:


> How did you know the crime was going to happen?


Someone points a kife at you.  You draw you gun,  He runs.  Crime stopped.
Someone broke into your house,  He's hodling a gun.   You shoot him.  Crime stopped.
_ad nauseam_


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## Esdraelon (Sep 30, 2021)

rightwinger said:


> Gun owner fantasy of “scaring away bad guys”


No claim was made that more people were KILLED by defensive use of guns.  Most low-life scum are too cowardly to continue an attack if they realize they'll risk their own life.  Nice to see you'd rather believe them.


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## candycorn (Sep 30, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> The issue is crimes stopped WITH the defensive use of a gun.
> Instances where the gun was not used are immaterial.



Cultspeak at it's finest!


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## candycorn (Sep 30, 2021)

2aguy said:


> There are over 330 million people in the U.S.


And supposedly something like one out of 10 or 11 has used a gun to stop a crime if someone were debased enough to believe your silly statistics...


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## 2aguy (Oct 1, 2021)

candycorn said:


> And supposedly something like one out of 10 or 11 has used a gun to stop a crime if someone were debased enough to believe your silly statistics...




Not my statistics dumb ass....18 studies on gun self defense...conducted by both private and government researchers using actual research methods.......if you have complaints, take them to the Centers for Disease Control and the Department of Justice, just two of the 18 researchers who came up with the numbers...


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## M14 Shooter (Oct 1, 2021)

candycorn said:


> Cultspeak at it's finest!


^^^^
Willful ignorance


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## M14 Shooter (Oct 1, 2021)

candycorn said:


> And supposedly something like one out of 10 or 11 has used a gun to stop a crime if someone were debased enough to believe your silly statistics...


Why do you hate reality?


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## BasicHumanUnit (Apr 5, 2022)

Irrelevant.
You did nothing.  Now you will turn them in.   

America will now go the way of Europe and Australia.

You know I'm right.


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## BasicHumanUnit (Apr 5, 2022)

2aguy said:


> moron, it doesnt mean you have to fire the gun for the criminal to stop the attack as you know.  You then play stupid….



2aguy,

I admire your desire to verbally protect and advocate for the 2A and right to bear arms.
Unfortunately, it takes FAR more than that.

You may be right on every talking point, but disarming America is a Marxist / Progressive wet dream and they did more than talk about it.
The Founding Fathers intent was not to arm Americas so they could only talk about fighting for freedom.

See the difference?  If the FF's had done what we, modern Americans have done we'd all be British and under the Queen today.
We'll all soon be bowing to a different set of Elites soon.


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## meaner gene (Apr 5, 2022)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> See the difference?  If the FF's had done what we, modern Americans have done we'd all be British and under the Queen today.
> We'll all soon be bowing to a different set of Elites soon.


You say that, as if it would be a bad thing.  If we had been under British rule, then slavery would have ended 50 years earlier, and not taken a civil war to do it.


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## 2aguy (Apr 5, 2022)

meaner gene said:


> You say that, as if it would be a bad thing.  If we had been under British rule, then slavery would have ended 50 years earlier, and not taken a civil war to do it.




Wrong.....the only reason Britain was able to end slave transport on British ships, which is what they did.....they didn't have slaves in England......so what they did was far less than what we had to do.......

If they had had about a million slaves in England with people basing their businesses on owning slaves, it would not have ended so easily in Britain...


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## meaner gene (Apr 5, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Wrong.....the only reason Britain was able to end slave transport on British ships, which is what they did.....they didn't have slaves in England......so what they did was far less than what we had to do.......
> 
> If they had had about a million slaves in England with people basing their businesses on owning slaves, it would not have ended so easily in Britain...


_Slavery Abolition Act, (1833), in British history, act of Parliament that abolished slavery in most British colonies, freeing more than 800,000 enslaved Africans in the Caribbean and South Africa as well as a small number in Canada. It received Royal Assent on August 28, 1833, and took effect on August 1, 1834._


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## 2aguy (Apr 5, 2022)

meaner gene said:


> _Slavery Abolition Act, (1833), in British history, act of Parliament that abolished slavery in most British colonies, freeing more than 800,000 enslaved Africans in the Caribbean and South Africa as well as a small number in Canada. It received Royal Assent on August 28, 1833, and took effect on August 1, 1834._




Yeah....again.......they were not in England, they were across oceans......not even close to what we had to deal with here in the U.S. after Britain and Spain bought blacks from Africans and transported them here...

Britain doesn't deserve much credit considering they lost nothing by that decree..........the democrat party here in the United States started a Civil War to keep their slaves...big fucking difference...


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## meaner gene (Apr 5, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yeah....again.......they were not in England, they were across oceans......not even close to what we had to deal with here in the U.S. after Britain and Spain bought blacks from Africans and transported them here...


Had we lost the war of 1812, slavery would have been outlawed in North America in 1833.

And there would have been no civil war.


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## Osiris-ODS (Apr 5, 2022)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Unlikely.  The judicial system typically views warning shots as careless behavior that could fall under the definition of unlawful use of deadly force, and common sense indicates a warning shot merely gives an attacker a extra chance to shoot/knife/bludgeon you.


Exactly. "Warning shots" is bullshit leftist twaddle. Rule number one of gun use that pretty much every gun owner knows by heart: never put your finger on the trigger unless you intend to put a bullet in the person it's aiming at.


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## Osiris-ODS (Apr 5, 2022)

candycorn said:


> A "gun use" doesn't mean using the gun?


God you are a dense fucking twat.


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## whitehall (Apr 5, 2022)

Conservative Constitutionalist Americans don't have the unlimited (tax exempt) advantage as the Soros funded "Media Matters". As far as I know only the NRA collects data about the defensive use of firearms and the NRA has been the subject of unrelenting attack by the mainstream media. Scientific data that shows that firearms are used in millions of self defense cases yearly (whether shots are fired or not) are routinely dismissed by the left wing media so all we are left with is opinions by questionable or outright fraudulent anti-2nd Amendment sources. That's the way the system works.


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## badbob85037 (May 29, 2022)

Doc7505 said:


> There Are Far More Defensive Gun Uses Than Murders in America. Here's Why You Rarely Hear of Them.​
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know I know. But no matter how many times you use common sense on democRats it don't work.   Only thing that works is to bitch slap (make sure you use an open hand) the shit out of them and if there is anything left of them bitch slap them again and make sure you rob them of any food stamps. We will starve them out. Besides would you want any of these idiots to have a gun? Half would shoot them self, a lot more if they were loaded. If you still wouldn't want to be around any armed idiots( and I don't blame you) at last give them some rusty razor blades to play with. Also just because we love the sport of shooting don't mean we won't pick up a table leg with all it's hardware and beat you even more senseless if there is such a thing.


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