# London on Lockdown



## Swagger

Rioting is rapidly spreading across Britain's capital. There are cars being torched and overturned within sight of our balcony. It's getting worse by the day. Supermarkets are all closing to avoid being targetted by looters. And I'll echo the comment pages of all the major British news outlets: the majority of the rioter/looters/scum are ethnic minorities. The police's hands are largely tied because their boots are cemented in political correctness (blimey, that almost read like an emergency distress signal).

I'm the only gun owner in the building, for what precious little my ancient BSA 12-bore will do. Still, stiff upper lip an' all that.


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## Swagger




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## syrenn

You will have to fill me in....i am missing a good deal of what you are talking about ....but get the idea. 

yes.... doing anything against that would be .... very un PC. Can you take pics from your balcony? 

and you stay safe.


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## syrenn

So is this some muslim thing?


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## Modbert

syrenn said:


> So is this some muslim thing?



Why is your first assumption to blame Muslims?


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## syrenn

Modbert said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> So is this some muslim thing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is your first assumption to blame Muslims?
Click to expand...



I ASKED..... se the little question mark?????   that is not blaming anyone. 


now if i had said yeah... those damn muslims fucking everything up, rioting and looting again.... then you could say something..


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## dilloduck

Modbert said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> So is this some muslim thing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is your first assumption to blame Muslims?
Click to expand...


Because if you blame blacks first you are a racist.


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## Modbert

syrenn said:


> I ASKED..... se the little question mark?????   that is not blaming anyone.
> 
> 
> now if i had said yeah... those damn muslims fucking everything up, rioting and looting again.... then you could say something..



I never said anything about blame. I simply pointed out your first assumption was that Muslims must be behind it, hence why you asked whether or not they were.

And to answer your question, no it's not because of the Muslims.

Edit @ 7:21 PM: I should have used the word accuse, not blame.


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## Modbert

dilloduck said:


> Because if you blame blacks first you are a racist.



Thanks for contributing absolutely nothing.


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## syrenn

Modbert said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ASKED..... se the little question mark?????   that is not blaming anyone.
> 
> 
> now if i had said yeah... those damn muslims fucking everything up, rioting and looting again.... then you could say something..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said anything about blame. I simply pointed out your first assumption was that Muslims must be behind it, hence why you asked whether or not they were.
> 
> And to answer your question, no it's not because of the Muslims.
Click to expand...



let see.... were there any links in the OP? .... no

and since you seem to know who, then..who? 

i thought i was pretty clear in my first post ...that i was not up one any of it.


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## Modbert

syrenn said:


> let see.... were there any links in the OP? .... no
> 
> and since you seem to know who, then..who?
> 
> i thought i was pretty clear in my first post ...that i was not up one any of it.



What does the lack of links in the OP have anything to do with it? Does that justify your assumption that it was Muslims? 

As for who's behind it, go to the BBC or The Guardian websites. Both have pretty good amount of live coverage on this.


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## Swagger

The rioters are mostly black. I'm not opening the windows to take any pictures, everything you need for confirmation is on the BBC News website, including footage of mostly black looters. Petitions are being circulated by the public demanding that the army are sent in to quell the violence.

All you need is here:

Thieving ***** Nicking Anything That Isn't Nailed Down - BBC


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## California Girl

Spreading out of London now. Birmingham is having riots. Several parts of London are burning. Tragic.... what a bunch of fucking idiots. Rioting for the sake of it.


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## Swagger

COBRA Committee is being convened.


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## syrenn

Modbert said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> let see.... were there any links in the OP? .... no
> 
> and since you seem to know who, then..who?
> 
> i thought i was pretty clear in my first post ...that i was not up one any of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does the lack of links in the OP have anything to do with it? Does that justify your assumption that it was Muslims?
> 
> As for who's behind it, go to the BBC or The Guardian websites. Both have pretty good amount of live coverage on this.
Click to expand...


As i said.... i am not up on it..

lets just put it this way... England and its PC multiculturalism is a huge failure.  How about i rephrase it so you can stomach it  better

Is it the foreigners blocking streets again?


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## Modbert

syrenn said:


> As i said.... i am not up on it..
> 
> lets just put it this way... England and its PC multiculturalism is a huge failure.  How about i rephrase it so you can stomach it  better
> 
> Is it the foreigners blocking streets again?



So you have no actual intention of reading up on this. You just rather bash Muslims and bash multiculturalism despite neither having anything to do with this situation.

Thanks for the headsup.


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## Modbert

Blagger said:


> COBRA Committee is being convened.



Someone call in the Joes.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnuGhuNZnFs]&#x202a;G.I. Joe theme&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]

For those who don't know what the COBRA Commitee is:

Cabinet Office Briefing Room - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> Cabinet Office Briefing Room (COBR)[1] is a term used to describe the formation of a crisis response committee, coordinating the actions of bodies within the government of the United Kingdom in response to instances of national or regional crisis, or during events abroad with major implications for the UK. The constitution of a COBR will depend on the nature of the incident but it is usually chaired by the Prime Minister or another senior minister, with other key ministers as appropriate, and representatives of relevant external organizations such as the Association of Chief Police Officers and the Local Government Association.[1][2]



David Cameron (Prime Minister) is ending his vacation in Spain to come back to deal with this.


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## syrenn

Modbert said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> As i said.... i am not up on it..
> 
> lets just put it this way... England and its PC multiculturalism is a huge failure.  How about i rephrase it so you can stomach it  better
> 
> Is it the foreigners blocking streets again?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you have no actual intention of reading up on this. You just rather bash Muslims and bash multiculturalism despite neither having anything to do with this situation.
> 
> Thanks for the headsup.
Click to expand...



As i said... a link in the OP would have been helpful...

some us do have real lives  and or are multi tasking.....and don't sit on the computer 24/7 

SO SORRY i am not moving fast enough for you.


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## Modbert

syrenn said:


> As i said... a link in the OP would have been helpful...
> 
> some us do have real lives  and or are multi tasking.....and don't sit on the computer 24/7
> 
> SO SORRY i am not moving fast enough for you.



Seriously? The OP is giving his own personal experience of what's going on. Like I said before, BBC and The Guardian have plenty of great coverage on this. 

You complain about the following:



> some us do have real lives  and or are multi tasking.....and don't sit on the computer 24/7



When it takes two seconds to go to the BBC website or Guardian website and read the front page. In fact, in the amount of time it took you to read my post and respond, you could have read up about all this already.

Here's one link for you:

BBC News - London riots

Learn up about what's happening instead of just simply taking random shots at Muslims and such.


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## Dr Grump

I hate to say it, but from all the photos I saw, it was the first thing I noticed....


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## Wicked Jester

Maybe Britain will learn now to arm every damn police officer, and give them full power to protect it's citizens.

They're going to need it.......Seeing as though the douchbags are awakening, and the Muslims are taking over entire communities unchecked.


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## syrenn

So Blaggar...

who is doing the rioting?


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## Swagger

syrenn said:


> So Blaggar...
> 
> who is doing the rioting?



From what I and everyone on the street has witnessed, yet the media are falling over themselves to exclude, the majority of the rioters/parasites are blacks and muslims. Though mainly black. This isn't something that can be refuted.


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## Intense

During the Arab revolutions earlier this year, attention focused on Facebook and Twitter, but for the looters and rioters of Tottenham, Enfield and Brixton, the communications tool of choice has apparently been BlackBerry Messenger (BBM). It appears to have acted as their private, encrypted social network over the past two nights&#8217; violence.

RIM&#8217;s BlackBerry smartphones are very popular among inner city youths on both sides of the Atlantic. The devices themselves are typically cheaper than Android models and the iPhone, particularly on pay-as-you-go packages. But it is software that central to BlackBerrys&#8217; success in this market.

BBM is an instant messaging application, allowing users to communicate in a similar way to text messaging, but effectively for free, as traffic is exchanged via the internet. According to analysts it is replacing text messaging among young people.

&#8220;We&#8217;ve seen SMS usage fall among young people and the main driver is BlackBerry,&#8221; said Graham Brown of Mobile Youth, in April.

Each user has a unique PIN that allows other BBM users to contact them. BBM PINs are typically shared more readily than phone numbers, which means news can spread through the network more quickly than via text messages. 

London riots: how BlackBerry Messenger has been used to plan two nights of looting - Telegraph


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## Valerie

Modbert said:


> Why is your first assumption to *blame* Muslims?








Modbert said:


> I never said anything about blame.


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## HenryBHough

When a huge percentage of young males have never held a job - because there ARE NO jobs they do grow restless.

London is merely prototypical for what's coming worldwide.  Especially if/when America's Kenyan President starts bringing troops home from his illegal wars and they discover there are no jobs here, either.

This cycle started in a part of London that is strongly black so it is only logical that most of the participants are black.  As it has spread to other sections the mixture grows lighter.  Likely to work that way here, too.


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## Modbert

Valerie said:


>



My mistake. I should have used the word accused. My point still stands though.


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## Modbert

HenryBHough said:


> When a huge percentage of young males have never held a job - because there ARE NO jobs they do grow restless.
> 
> London is merely prototypical for what's coming worldwide.  Especially if/when America's Kenyan President starts bringing troops home from his illegal wars and they discover there are no jobs here, either.
> 
> This cycle started in a part of London that is strongly black so it is only logical that most of the participants are black.  As it has spread to other sections the mixture grows lighter.  Likely to work that way here, too.



Kenyan President? Seriously? Go grow.


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## Intense

Police said more than 160 people had been arrested and 35 police officers were injured.

"This has changed from a local issue into organized criminality," police deputy assistant commissioner Steve Kavanagh said Monday as he announced a "momentous investigation" to track down the perpetrators.

"We will make sure that this criminality is not allowed to continue," Kavanagh told Sky News.

The perpetrators were relatively small groups of youths &#8212; their heads and faces covered &#8212; who used social media such as Twitter, mobile phone text messages and instant messaging on BlackBerrys to organize and keep a step ahead of police. One BlackBerry message Sunday, whose authenticity could not be verified, urged young people from across London to converge on Oxford Circus for "pure terror and havoc & free stuff."

Once the preserve of businesspeople, BlackBerry handsets are popular with teenagers thanks to their free, fast instant messaging system.

Blackberry's manufacturer, Research in Motion, said in a statement: "We feel for those impacted by the riots in London. We have engaged with the authorities to assist in any way we can."

Police said they would be monitoring Twitter feeds and those who incited violence could face arrest.

In the south London neighborhood of Brixton &#8212; the scene of riots in the 1980s and 1990s &#8212; youths smashed windows, attacked a police car, set fire to garbage bins and stole video games, sportswear and other goods from stores on Sunday night.

*Like Brixton, Tottenham is an impoverished area with an ethnically diverse population, a large black community and a history of unrest. Tottenham was the site of the 1985 Broadwater Farm riots, a series of clashes that led to the fatal stabbing of a police officer and the wounding of nearly 60 others &#8212; and underscored tensions between London police and the capital's black community.*

Since then police have made concerted, and fairly successful, efforts to build better relations with London's ethnic communities. But mistrust still lingers, and the shooting of Duggan &#8212; a popular figure in the community &#8212; has stirred old animosities.

UK police arrest over 160 in weekend London riots - Yahoo! News


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## Valerie

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeP220xx7Bs]&#x202a;The Sex Pistols - God Save The Queen&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]


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## syrenn

Blagger said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Blaggar...
> 
> who is doing the rioting?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From what I and everyone on the street has witnessed, yet the media are falling over themselves to exclude, the majority of the rioters/parasites are blacks and muslims. Though mainly black. This isn't something that can be refuted.
Click to expand...




Good to know.


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## Modbert

According to Scotland Yard, at least 215 people have been arrested and 25 charged so far in relation to the three days of violence.


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## Wicked Jester

Is her Majesty safe?

God forbid anything happens to that worthless, useless ol' bag.

Oh well, at least they can use Prince Chaz's ears for roadblocks.


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## alexa

syrenn said:


> So Blaggar...
> 
> who is doing the rioting?



It has nothing to do with Muslims Syrenn. It started because of the killing by the police of a black guy in a taxi.  

The family, friends and community wanted an explanation by the police and they kept them waiting too long.  No one is sure how that changed into a riot and looting but possibly more and more people came.  There is a thread with links in the Europe session.

It has spread because now people are texting each other on their mobile phones and going off to loot their favourite shops.

What seems to be the general consensus is that it would be stupid to give any single explanation for why this has arison.  It seems to be many things, gangs which have been allowed to grow on estates, mass unemployment, not able to afford to carry on further education, dramatic (75%) reduction in funding for needed youth services, mistrust of the police, no hope for the future and nothing to lose.

People are just going on the rampage.  Burning homes and business and looting all they can.

What is mentioned always is that it is the YOUTH. Some just early teens.

We have had a growing problem of gangs on estates and I suspect a lot is them on their cell phones organising thinking they are being cool.

I can understand Blagger being scared.

and yes, it is mainly African Caribbean neighbourhoods but black people are getting their homes and businesses burnt as well and white people are joining in.  It is not a race issue.


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## syrenn

alexa said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Blaggar...
> 
> who is doing the rioting?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has nothing to do with Muslims Syrenn. It started because of the killing by the police of a black guy in a taxi.
> 
> The family, friends and community wanted an explanation by the police and they kept them waiting too long.  No one is sure how that changed into a riot and looting but possibly more and more people came.  There is a thread with links in the Europe session.
> 
> It has spread because now people are texting each other on their mobile phones and going off to loot their favourite shops.
> 
> What seems to be the general consensus is that it would be stupid to give any single explanation for why this has arison.  It seems to be many things, gangs which have been allowed to grow on estates, mass unemployment, not able to afford to carry on further education, dramatic (75%) reduction in funding for needed youth services, mistrust of the police, no hope for the future and nothing to lose.
> 
> People are just going on the rampage.  Burning homes and business and looting all they can.
> 
> What is mentioned always is that it is the YOUTH. Some just early teens.
> 
> We have had a growing problem of gangs on estates and I suspect a lot is them on their cell phones organising thinking they are being cool.
> 
> I can understand Blagger being scared.
> 
> and yes, it is mainly African Caribbean neighbourhoods but black people are getting their homes and businesses burnt as well and white people are joining in.  It is not a race issue.
Click to expand...



Thanks


so its the blacks doing the rioting. 

Is that better Modbret?


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## Wicked Jester

alexa said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Blaggar...
> 
> who is doing the rioting?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has nothing to do with Muslims Syrenn. It started because of the killing by the police of a black guy in a taxi.
> 
> The family, friends and community wanted an explanation by the police and they kept them waiting too long.  No one is sure how that changed into a riot and looting but possibly more and more people came.  There is a thread with links in the Europe session.
> 
> It has spread because now people are texting each other on their mobile phones and going off to loot their favourite shops.
> 
> What seems to be the general consensus is that it would be stupid to give any single explanation for why this has arison.  It seems to be many things, gangs which have been allowed to grow on estates, mass unemployment, not able to afford to carry on further education, dramatic (75%) reduction in funding for needed youth services, mistrust of the police, no hope for the future and nothing to lose.
> 
> People are just going on the rampage.  Burning homes and business and looting all they can.
> 
> What is mentioned always is that it is the YOUTH. Some just early teens.
> 
> We have had a growing problem of gangs on estates and I suspect a lot is them on their cell phones organising thinking they are being cool.
> 
> I can understand Blagger being scared.
> 
> and yes, it is mainly African Caribbean neighbourhoods but black people are getting their homes and businesses burnt as well and white people are joining in.  It is not a race issue.
Click to expand...

But, you said it was because a black man was shot by police, No doubt white cops.....So yes, it is a race issue.

It was the blacks who started rioting in the first place.......So yes, it is a race issue

Tell me, would there have been whites burning down the joint and rioting if a white man had been shot?........Would the blacks have started burning down the joint and rioting if a WHITE man was shot?

Hell friggin' no!

It's time europe wakes up.


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## California Girl

Wicked Jester said:


> Is her Majesty safe?
> 
> God forbid anything happens to that worthless, useless ol' bag.
> 
> Oh well, at least they can use Prince Chaz's ears for roadblocks.



The Queen is not a 'worthless, useless ol' bag', she is a remarkable woman, 85 years old and works harder than most people half her age. She has given her whole life to that country and has been a wonderful, inspirational figurehead. 

However, the thread is about the riots in London, not the Queen. I'm due to be in London later this week and, if shit is still going down like it is right now, I'm not setting foot in that place. 

It's heartbreaking to watch what these thugs are doing to that city.


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## California Girl

Wicked Jester said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Blaggar...
> 
> who is doing the rioting?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has nothing to do with Muslims Syrenn. It started because of the killing by the police of a black guy in a taxi.
> 
> The family, friends and community wanted an explanation by the police and they kept them waiting too long.  No one is sure how that changed into a riot and looting but possibly more and more people came.  There is a thread with links in the Europe session.
> 
> It has spread because now people are texting each other on their mobile phones and going off to loot their favourite shops.
> 
> What seems to be the general consensus is that it would be stupid to give any single explanation for why this has arison.  It seems to be many things, gangs which have been allowed to grow on estates, mass unemployment, not able to afford to carry on further education, dramatic (75%) reduction in funding for needed youth services, mistrust of the police, no hope for the future and nothing to lose.
> 
> People are just going on the rampage.  Burning homes and business and looting all they can.
> 
> What is mentioned always is that it is the YOUTH. Some just early teens.
> 
> We have had a growing problem of gangs on estates and I suspect a lot is them on their cell phones organising thinking they are being cool.
> 
> I can understand Blagger being scared.
> 
> and yes, it is mainly African Caribbean neighbourhoods but black people are getting their homes and businesses burnt as well and white people are joining in.  It is not a race issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But, you said it was because a black man was shot by police, No doubt white cops.....So yes, it is a race issue.
> 
> It was the blacks who started rioting in the first place.......So yes, it is a race issue
> 
> Tell me, would there have been whites burning down the joint and rioting if a white man had been shot?........Would the blacks have started burning down the joint and rioting if a WHITE man was shot?
> 
> Hell friggin' no!
> 
> It's time europe wakes up.
Click to expand...


It's not a race issue. It's a thug issue. From what I'm seeing, the race of the guy killed by the police was not the issue.... the issue was that the police shot him and didn't tell his family. His family, however, are not involved in the riots and have asked for it to stop. The shooting was an excuse, not a reason. These kids are just fucking thugs. They're calling it 'recreational rioting'. 

Recreational rioting? WTF? Who raises these monsters?


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## syrenn

California Girl said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is her Majesty safe?
> 
> God forbid anything happens to that worthless, useless ol' bag.
> 
> Oh well, at least they can use Prince Chaz's ears for roadblocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Queen is not a 'worthless, useless ol' bag', she is a remarkable woman, 85 years old and works harder than most people half her age. She has given her whole life to that country and has been a wonderful, inspirational figurehead.
> 
> However, the thread is about the riots in London, not the Queen. I'm due to be in London later this week and, if shit is still going down like it is right now, I'm not setting foot in that place.
> 
> It's heartbreaking to watch what these thugs are doing to that city.
Click to expand...


You stay safe CG! 

what pisses me off is  the lack of action...both here and there....for fear of  any action being labeled racist.


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## Modbert

syrenn said:


> You stay safe CG!
> 
> what pisses me off is  the lack of action...both here and there....for fear of  any action being labeled racist.



You keep trying to make this a race issue when it's not. Very dishonest.


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## Swagger

alexa said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Blaggar...
> 
> who is doing the rioting?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has nothing to do with Muslims Syrenn. It started because of the killing by the police of a black guy in a taxi.
> 
> The family, friends and community wanted an explanation by the police and they kept them waiting too long.  No one is sure how that changed into a riot and looting but possibly more and more people came.  There is a thread with links in the Europe session.
> 
> It has spread because now people are texting each other on their mobile phones and going off to loot their favourite shops.
> 
> What seems to be the general consensus is that it would be stupid to give any single explanation for why this has arison.  It seems to be many things, gangs which have been allowed to grow on estates, mass unemployment, not able to afford to carry on further education, dramatic (75%) reduction in funding for needed youth services, mistrust of the police, no hope for the future and nothing to lose.
> 
> People are just going on the rampage.  Burning homes and business and looting all they can.
> 
> What is mentioned always is that it is the YOUTH. Some just early teens.
> 
> We have had a growing problem of gangs on estates and I suspect a lot is them on their cell phones organising thinking they are being cool.
> 
> I can understand Blagger being scared.
> 
> and yes, it is mainly African Caribbean neighbourhoods but black people are getting their homes and businesses burnt as well and white people are joining in.  *It is not a race issue*.
Click to expand...


Wrong. 

As much as a lot of people would rather bury their heads in the sand, this is indeed a racial issue. A white police officer shot and killed a black man. His family converged upon the local police station demanding answers. A female member of the family instigated violence (I think she chucked half a brick at the police representative and she was duly restrained, though I could be wrong). A large group of blacks then went on the rampage, but in their heady path of destruction they got distracted by all the goodies left unguarded. Large groups of blacks and muslim hangers-on form the core of the rioters. Granted, there are some white aggitators, but nowhere near the number minorities. 

I don't think the same reaction would've been provoked had it been a black marksman that had pulled the trigger on Duggan. The black communities in London have a history of manipulating the tentative issue of racial sensitivity in their favour. I wonder why it is that all the hotspots are where there are large, international sportwear chains? I'll give you a clue: it's not a coincidence.


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## Intense

The weapon being carried by Mark Duggan, the man's whose death sparked the weekend's rioting, was a converted handgun capable of firing real ammunition, the Guardian understands. Forensic tests are being carried out on the handgun found at the scene of Duggan's fatal shooting and bullets fired by the police.

It is understood that ballistics experts have established that the firearm being carried in the minicab was a handgun which at one point had not been capable of firing &#8211; a replica, a starting pistol or a collector's weapon. But the firearm had been converted&#8211; as many illegal firearms purchased on the street are &#8211; into a lethal weapon capable of carrying live ammunition.

The IPCC has said that they hope to have a fuller ballistics picture within 24 hours. But it is understood to be a complex picture, involving a number of tests to establish trajectory of bullets and how many were fired.

*According to Sky the C019 firearms officer has said that he never claimed Duggan had shot at him.*
*
The firearms officer is understood to have told investigators that he opened fire because he believed he was in danger from a lethal weapon. Two shots were fired, it is understood; one hit Duggan and one missed, lodging in another officer's radio.*

Forensic tests will establish finally whether Duggan fired his weapon at all during the attempted arrest last Thursday evening.

Rachel Cerfontyne, the IPCC commissioner in charge of the independent investigation into Duggan's fatal shooting, said: "IPCC investigators are currently liaising with scientists at the Forensic Science Service regarding analysis on ballistics. We would anticipate being in a position to share verified results within the next 24 hours."

Mark Duggan handgun tests show conversion into lethal weapon | UK news | The Guardian


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## Wicked Jester

California Girl said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has nothing to do with Muslims Syrenn. It started because of the killing by the police of a black guy in a taxi.
> 
> The family, friends and community wanted an explanation by the police and they kept them waiting too long.  No one is sure how that changed into a riot and looting but possibly more and more people came.  There is a thread with links in the Europe session.
> 
> It has spread because now people are texting each other on their mobile phones and going off to loot their favourite shops.
> 
> What seems to be the general consensus is that it would be stupid to give any single explanation for why this has arison.  It seems to be many things, gangs which have been allowed to grow on estates, mass unemployment, not able to afford to carry on further education, dramatic (75%) reduction in funding for needed youth services, mistrust of the police, no hope for the future and nothing to lose.
> 
> People are just going on the rampage.  Burning homes and business and looting all they can.
> 
> What is mentioned always is that it is the YOUTH. Some just early teens.
> 
> We have had a growing problem of gangs on estates and I suspect a lot is them on their cell phones organising thinking they are being cool.
> 
> I can understand Blagger being scared.
> 
> and yes, it is mainly African Caribbean neighbourhoods but black people are getting their homes and businesses burnt as well and white people are joining in.  It is not a race issue.
> 
> 
> 
> But, you said it was because a black man was shot by police, No doubt white cops.....So yes, it is a race issue.
> 
> It was the blacks who started rioting in the first place.......So yes, it is a race issue
> 
> Tell me, would there have been whites burning down the joint and rioting if a white man had been shot?........Would the blacks have started burning down the joint and rioting if a WHITE man was shot?
> 
> Hell friggin' no!
> 
> It's time europe wakes up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not a race issue. It's a thug issue. From what I'm seeing, the race of the guy killed by the police was not the issue.... the issue was that the police shot him and didn't tell his family. His family, however, are not involved in the riots and have asked for it to stop. The shooting was an excuse, not a reason. These kids are just fucking thugs. They're calling it 'recreational rioting'.
> 
> Recreational rioting? WTF? Who raises these monsters?
Click to expand...

It IS a race issue, CG..........Had he been white, there would not be blacks running around and rioting like the cowards they are........They wouldn't have given a damn.


----------



## Intense

Modbert said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You stay safe CG!
> 
> what pisses me off is  the lack of action...both here and there....for fear of  any action being labeled racist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You keep trying to make this a race issue when it's not. Very dishonest.
Click to expand...


The fact that you are so certain of your claims, only proves how out of touch with reality you are. Nothing cultural or racial going on here. Move on now. Got it.  WTFU.


----------



## syrenn

Modbert said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You stay safe CG!
> 
> what pisses me off is  the lack of action...both here and there....for fear of  any action being labeled racist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You keep trying to make this a race issue when it's not. Very dishonest.
Click to expand...



No? .... you would have jumped out of your skin just as far if i had said blacks instead of muslims

Black or blacks...is a descriptive. 

sorry but mob...is not quite as accurate as a mob of blacks. 

I am not trying to make anything out of this..and its dishonest of you to say to.


----------



## alexa

Wicked Jester said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Blaggar...
> 
> who is doing the rioting?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has nothing to do with Muslims Syrenn. It started because of the killing by the police of a black guy in a taxi.
> 
> The family, friends and community wanted an explanation by the police and they kept them waiting too long.  No one is sure how that changed into a riot and looting but possibly more and more people came.  There is a thread with links in the Europe session.
> 
> It has spread because now people are texting each other on their mobile phones and going off to loot their favourite shops.
> 
> What seems to be the general consensus is that it would be stupid to give any single explanation for why this has arison.  It seems to be many things, gangs which have been allowed to grow on estates, mass unemployment, not able to afford to carry on further education, dramatic (75%) reduction in funding for needed youth services, mistrust of the police, no hope for the future and nothing to lose.
> 
> People are just going on the rampage.  Burning homes and business and looting all they can.
> 
> What is mentioned always is that it is the YOUTH. Some just early teens.
> 
> We have had a growing problem of gangs on estates and I suspect a lot is them on their cell phones organising thinking they are being cool.
> 
> I can understand Blagger being scared.
> 
> and yes, it is mainly African Caribbean neighbourhoods but black people are getting their homes and businesses burnt as well and white people are joining in.  It is not a race issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But, you said it was because a black man was shot by police, No doubt white cops.....So yes, it is a race issue.
> 
> It was the blacks who started rioting in the first place.......So yes, it is a race issue
Click to expand...

  No it is not a race issue.  I only said he was black because people were talking about race so it got that in my head.

Look I was working in Brixton in '81 when there were riots.  They were race riots.  We all knew that.  It had a completely different complexion.  This is not the same thing at all.



Wicked Jester said:


> Tell me, would there have been whites burning down the joint and rioting if a white man had been shot?........Would the blacks have started burning down the joint and rioting if a WHITE man was shot?



As California Girl has already told you, the rioting and looting is not caused by the man's family and the rioting and looting and burning includes white people living in the neighbourhoods.  This is young people.  One person described them as kids.

White people are involved so your stupid race supremacy argument is worth nothing.



Wicked Jester said:


> Hell friggin' no!
> 
> It's time europe wakes up.



Norway woke us up to dangerous white right wingers.


----------



## Modbert

Intense said:


> The fact that you are so certain of your claims, only proves how out of touch with reality you are. Nothing cultural or racial going on here. Move on now. Got it.  WTFU.



She was accusing Muslims of being involved somehow even before she knew what was going on. This much is true. All I see going on in this thread is some people who care less about what's going on in the UK and rather people who just want to blame Blacks and Muslims. Very sad to say the least.


----------



## Intense

Blagger said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Blaggar...
> 
> who is doing the rioting?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has nothing to do with Muslims Syrenn. It started because of the killing by the police of a black guy in a taxi.
> 
> The family, friends and community wanted an explanation by the police and they kept them waiting too long.  No one is sure how that changed into a riot and looting but possibly more and more people came.  There is a thread with links in the Europe session.
> 
> It has spread because now people are texting each other on their mobile phones and going off to loot their favourite shops.
> 
> What seems to be the general consensus is that it would be stupid to give any single explanation for why this has arison.  It seems to be many things, gangs which have been allowed to grow on estates, mass unemployment, not able to afford to carry on further education, dramatic (75%) reduction in funding for needed youth services, mistrust of the police, no hope for the future and nothing to lose.
> 
> People are just going on the rampage.  Burning homes and business and looting all they can.
> 
> What is mentioned always is that it is the YOUTH. Some just early teens.
> 
> We have had a growing problem of gangs on estates and I suspect a lot is them on their cell phones organising thinking they are being cool.
> 
> I can understand Blagger being scared.
> 
> and yes, it is mainly African Caribbean neighbourhoods but black people are getting their homes and businesses burnt as well and white people are joining in.  *It is not a race issue*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> 
> As much as a lot of people would rather bury their heads in the sand, this is indeed a racial issue. A white police officer shot and killed a black man. His family converged upon the local police station demanding answers. A female member of the family instigated violence (I think she chucked half a brick at the police representative and she was duly restrained, though I could be wrong). A large group of blacks then went on the rampage, but in their heady path of destruction they got distracted by all the goodies left unguarded. Large groups of blacks and muslim hangers-on form the core of the rioters. Granted, there are some white aggitators, but nowhere near the number minorities.
> 
> I don't think the same reaction would've been provoked had it been a black marksman that had pulled the trigger on Duggan. The black communities in London have a history of manipulating the tentative issue of racial sensitivity in their favour. I wonder why it is that all the hotspots are where there are large, international sportwear chains? I'll give you a clue: it's not a coincidence.
Click to expand...


It is clearly beyond being a Racial issue. The people directly involved are Predators. Their involvement should be documented as best as possible, they should be identified, tracked down later, and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.


----------



## California Girl

Wicked Jester said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, you said it was because a black man was shot by police, No doubt white cops.....So yes, it is a race issue.
> 
> It was the blacks who started rioting in the first place.......So yes, it is a race issue
> 
> Tell me, would there have been whites burning down the joint and rioting if a white man had been shot?........Would the blacks have started burning down the joint and rioting if a WHITE man was shot?
> 
> Hell friggin' no!
> 
> It's time europe wakes up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a race issue. It's a thug issue. From what I'm seeing, the race of the guy killed by the police was not the issue.... the issue was that the police shot him and didn't tell his family. His family, however, are not involved in the riots and have asked for it to stop. The shooting was an excuse, not a reason. These kids are just fucking thugs. They're calling it 'recreational rioting'.
> 
> Recreational rioting? WTF? Who raises these monsters?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It IS a race issue, CG..........Had he been white, there would not be blacks running around and rioting like the cowards they are........They wouldn't have given a damn.
Click to expand...


I am sitting and watching the riots right now, as I type. There are blacks running around and rioting.... and there are a significant number of whites rioting right along side them. If this is a race riot, please explain why we have blacks and whites rioting together - not fighting each other... they are attacking all kinds of shit but not each other.


----------



## Ravi

An article in the International Business Times explores how the riots came about, and ponders whether race played a role  Duggan was black, and police had sought his arrest as part of an inquiry into gun violence in London's black community.

"Moreover Tottenham has high unemployment rates and a history of racial tensions," the article states, "especially among the Afro-Caribbean population resenting police behavior, including the use of stop and search powers."

Other reports have suggested that Scotland Yard's invocation of "special powers"  trying to control the riot in its early stages by giving officers more freedom to stop passersby and search them  was seen by some as a form of racial profiling.

On Monday, Metropolitan Police deputy assistant commissioner Stephen Kavanagh apologized to Duggan's family, most especially for not being in contact with the family after his death. The police, Kavanagh told the BBC, "could have managed that family's needs more effectively."

And as the Times Leader reports, some Tottenham residents say the riots have little to do with Duggan's death:

    "It's nothing to do with the man who was shot, is it?" said 37-year-old Marcia Simmons, who has lived in the diverse and gritty north London neighborhood all her life.

    "A lot of youths ... heard there was a protest and joined in. Others used it as an opportunity to kit themselves out, didn't they, with shoes and T-shirts and everything."

London Endures A Third Night Of Riots, Violence; Cameron Cuts Vacation Short : The Two-Way : NPR


----------



## Wicked Jester

alexa said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has nothing to do with Muslims Syrenn. It started because of the killing by the police of a black guy in a taxi.
> 
> The family, friends and community wanted an explanation by the police and they kept them waiting too long.  No one is sure how that changed into a riot and looting but possibly more and more people came.  There is a thread with links in the Europe session.
> 
> It has spread because now people are texting each other on their mobile phones and going off to loot their favourite shops.
> 
> What seems to be the general consensus is that it would be stupid to give any single explanation for why this has arison.  It seems to be many things, gangs which have been allowed to grow on estates, mass unemployment, not able to afford to carry on further education, dramatic (75%) reduction in funding for needed youth services, mistrust of the police, no hope for the future and nothing to lose.
> 
> People are just going on the rampage.  Burning homes and business and looting all they can.
> 
> What is mentioned always is that it is the YOUTH. Some just early teens.
> 
> We have had a growing problem of gangs on estates and I suspect a lot is them on their cell phones organising thinking they are being cool.
> 
> I can understand Blagger being scared.
> 
> and yes, it is mainly African Caribbean neighbourhoods but black people are getting their homes and businesses burnt as well and white people are joining in.  It is not a race issue.
> 
> 
> 
> But, you said it was because a black man was shot by police, No doubt white cops.....So yes, it is a race issue.
> 
> It was the blacks who started rioting in the first place.......So yes, it is a race issue
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No it is not a race issue.  I only said he was black because people were talking about race so it got that in my head.
> 
> Look I was working in Brixton in '81 when there were riots.  They were race riots.  We all knew that.  It had a completely different complexion.  This is not the same thing at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me, would there have been whites burning down the joint and rioting if a white man had been shot?........Would the blacks have started burning down the joint and rioting if a WHITE man was shot?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As California Girl has already told you, the rioting and looting is not caused by the man's family and the rioting and looting and burning includes white people living in the neighbourhoods.  This is young people.  One person described them as kids.
> 
> White people are involved so your stupid race supremacy argument is worth nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hell friggin' no!
> 
> It's time europe wakes up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Norway woke us up to dangerous white right wingers.
Click to expand...

I'll take it from someone over there who is watching it unfold from his/her balconey, and clearly stating it's a race issue, and that it was a family member who started the violence.

I'll take it from the BBC newscasts i've seen that are clearly stating it's race related.

I'll take it from personal knowledge of living in Southern California where the mother fuckers have been burning and looting for over fifty fuckin' years..........Trust me, I know a race issue when I see one........There is no candy coating that pig, no matter how hard you try.


----------



## California Girl

alexa said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has nothing to do with Muslims Syrenn. It started because of the killing by the police of a black guy in a taxi.
> 
> The family, friends and community wanted an explanation by the police and they kept them waiting too long.  No one is sure how that changed into a riot and looting but possibly more and more people came.  There is a thread with links in the Europe session.
> 
> It has spread because now people are texting each other on their mobile phones and going off to loot their favourite shops.
> 
> What seems to be the general consensus is that it would be stupid to give any single explanation for why this has arison.  It seems to be many things, gangs which have been allowed to grow on estates, mass unemployment, not able to afford to carry on further education, dramatic (75%) reduction in funding for needed youth services, mistrust of the police, no hope for the future and nothing to lose.
> 
> People are just going on the rampage.  Burning homes and business and looting all they can.
> 
> What is mentioned always is that it is the YOUTH. Some just early teens.
> 
> We have had a growing problem of gangs on estates and I suspect a lot is them on their cell phones organising thinking they are being cool.
> 
> I can understand Blagger being scared.
> 
> and yes, it is mainly African Caribbean neighbourhoods but black people are getting their homes and businesses burnt as well and white people are joining in.  It is not a race issue.
> 
> 
> 
> But, you said it was because a black man was shot by police, No doubt white cops.....So yes, it is a race issue.
> 
> It was the blacks who started rioting in the first place.......So yes, it is a race issue
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No it is not a race issue.  I only said he was black because people were talking about race so it got that in my head.
> 
> Look I was working in Brixton in '81 when there were riots.  They were race riots.  We all knew that.  It had a completely different complexion.  This is not the same thing at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me, would there have been whites burning down the joint and rioting if a white man had been shot?........Would the blacks have started burning down the joint and rioting if a WHITE man was shot?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As California Girl has already told you, the rioting and looting is not caused by the man's family and the rioting and looting and burning includes white people living in the neighbourhoods.  This is young people.  One person described them as kids.
> 
> White people are involved so your stupid race supremacy argument is worth nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hell friggin' no!
> 
> It's time europe wakes up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Norway woke us up to dangerous white right wingers.
Click to expand...


Oh for fuck's sake. These are fucking stupid kids - not right wingers. These kids probably couldn't even tell you who their Prime Minister is. Let's not bullshit about this. It's thugs. Not race. Not left wing. Not right wing. Just a bunch of mindless thugs.


----------



## Ravi

It sounds like a combination of poverty and the police having special powers, to me.


----------



## Wicked Jester

alexa said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has nothing to do with Muslims Syrenn. It started because of the killing by the police of a black guy in a taxi.
> 
> The family, friends and community wanted an explanation by the police and they kept them waiting too long.  No one is sure how that changed into a riot and looting but possibly more and more people came.  There is a thread with links in the Europe session.
> 
> It has spread because now people are texting each other on their mobile phones and going off to loot their favourite shops.
> 
> What seems to be the general consensus is that it would be stupid to give any single explanation for why this has arison.  It seems to be many things, gangs which have been allowed to grow on estates, mass unemployment, not able to afford to carry on further education, dramatic (75%) reduction in funding for needed youth services, mistrust of the police, no hope for the future and nothing to lose.
> 
> People are just going on the rampage.  Burning homes and business and looting all they can.
> 
> What is mentioned always is that it is the YOUTH. Some just early teens.
> 
> We have had a growing problem of gangs on estates and I suspect a lot is them on their cell phones organising thinking they are being cool.
> 
> I can understand Blagger being scared.
> 
> and yes, it is mainly African Caribbean neighbourhoods but black people are getting their homes and businesses burnt as well and white people are joining in.  It is not a race issue.
> 
> 
> 
> But, you said it was because a black man was shot by police, No doubt white cops.....So yes, it is a race issue.
> 
> It was the blacks who started rioting in the first place.......So yes, it is a race issue
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No it is not a race issue.  I only said he was black because people were talking about race so it got that in my head.
> 
> Look I was working in Brixton in '81 when there were riots.  They were race riots.  We all knew that.  It had a completely different complexion.  This is not the same thing at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me, would there have been whites burning down the joint and rioting if a white man had been shot?........Would the blacks have started burning down the joint and rioting if a WHITE man was shot?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As California Girl has already told you, the rioting and looting is not caused by the man's family and the rioting and looting and burning includes white people living in the neighbourhoods.  This is young people.  One person described them as kids.
> 
> White people are involved so your stupid race supremacy argument is worth nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hell friggin' no!
> 
> It's time europe wakes up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Norway woke us up to dangerous white right wingers.
Click to expand...

I'll take it from someone over there who is watching it unfold from his/her balconey, and clearly stating it's a race issue, and that it was a family member who started the violence.

I'll take it from the BBBC newscasts i've seen that are clearly stating it's race related.

I'll take it from personal knowledge of living in Southern California where the motherfuckers have been burning and looting for over fifty fuckin' years..........Trust me, I know a race issue when I see one........There is no candy coating that pig, no matter how hard you try.


----------



## St.Blues

We aren't that far off from this sort of behavior starting here...
Don't think for one minute it won't...................
When the checks stop, the rioting will start in the Urban area's. 
Don't doubt me, be ready.......

Blues


----------



## syrenn

Modbert said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you are so certain of your claims, only proves how out of touch with reality you are. Nothing cultural or racial going on here. Move on now. Got it.  WTFU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She was accusing Muslims of being involved somehow even before she knew what was going on. This much is true. All I see going on in this thread is some people who care less about what's going on in the UK and rather people who just want to blame Blacks and Muslims. Very sad to say the least.
Click to expand...



I ASKED if it was the muslims i did not accuse anyone.... stop lying. 






syrenn said:


> So is this some muslim thing?


----------



## Ernie S.

Modbert said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As i said... a link in the OP would have been helpful...
> 
> some us do have real lives  and or are multi tasking.....and don't sit on the computer 24/7
> 
> SO SORRY i am not moving fast enough for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously? The OP is giving his own personal experience of what's going on. Like I said before, BBC and The Guardian have plenty of great coverage on this.
> 
> You complain about the following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> some us do have real lives  and or are multi tasking.....and don't sit on the computer 24/7
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When it takes two seconds to go to the BBC website or Guardian website and read the front page. In fact, in the amount of time it took you to read my post and respond, you could have read up about all this already.
> 
> Here's one link for you:
> 
> BBC News - London riots
> 
> Learn up about what's happening instead of just simply taking random shots at Muslims and such.
Click to expand...


For Christ sake! The OP mentioned "ethnic minorities". She simply asked for clarification. She accused no one. Had she asked, as seems to be the case, if it was blacks rioting, you still would have called her a racist. Get over it! You don't turn her on and she won't sleep with you, no matter how often you engage in your stupid fore play.


----------



## RadiomanATL

Ravi said:


> It sounds like a combination of poverty and the police having special powers, to me.



Huh?

Police by the very nature of their job have special powers.


----------



## Ravi

RadiomanATL said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds like a combination of poverty and the police having special powers, to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Huh?
> 
> Police by the very nature of their job have special powers.
Click to expand...

But these apparently are extra special powers. Read the link I posted.


----------



## syrenn

Ravi said:


> It sounds like a combination of poverty and the police having special powers, to me.





It sounds like ever other riot of late


An excuse along with cover to loot and burn the place down.


----------



## RadiomanATL

Ravi said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds like a combination of poverty and the police having special powers, to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Huh?
> 
> Police by the very nature of their job have special powers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But these apparently are extra special powers. Read the link I posted.
Click to expand...


OK, gotcha.


----------



## Ravi

syrenn said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds like a combination of poverty and the police having special powers, to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds like ever other riot of late
> 
> 
> An excuse along with cover to loot and burn the place down.
Click to expand...

Yeah, well riots are always like that.


----------



## St.Blues

Modbert said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you are so certain of your claims, only proves how out of touch with reality you are. Nothing cultural or racial going on here. Move on now. Got it.  WTFU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She was accusing Muslims of being involved somehow even before she knew what was going on. This much is true. All I see going on in this thread is some people who care less about what's going on in the UK and rather people who just want to blame Blacks and Muslims. Very sad to say the least.
Click to expand...


MO, Syrenn wasn't accusing any one.. She simply asked a question. 
Maybe it would have satisfied you had she asked in a different light, I don't know. 
But for goodness sake leave her alone. She's always good to all in here for the most part and has never said or even implied racist opinions.
Quite frankly the way blacks are behaving here these day.. They would have been my first thought as to who...... Muslims only act this way in there own countries, at least for now anyway.

Respectfully
Blues


----------



## Tank

Don't kid yourselves, it's a race riot.


----------



## alexa

Blagger said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Blaggar...
> 
> who is doing the rioting?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has nothing to do with Muslims Syrenn. It started because of the killing by the police of a black guy in a taxi.
> 
> The family, friends and community wanted an explanation by the police and they kept them waiting too long.  No one is sure how that changed into a riot and looting but possibly more and more people came.  There is a thread with links in the Europe session.
> 
> It has spread because now people are texting each other on their mobile phones and going off to loot their favourite shops.
> 
> What seems to be the general consensus is that it would be stupid to give any single explanation for why this has arison.  It seems to be many things, gangs which have been allowed to grow on estates, mass unemployment, not able to afford to carry on further education, dramatic (75%) reduction in funding for needed youth services, mistrust of the police, no hope for the future and nothing to lose.
> 
> People are just going on the rampage.  Burning homes and business and looting all they can.
> 
> What is mentioned always is that it is the YOUTH. Some just early teens.
> 
> We have had a growing problem of gangs on estates and I suspect a lot is them on their cell phones organising thinking they are being cool.
> 
> I can understand Blagger being scared.
> 
> and yes, it is mainly African Caribbean neighbourhoods but black people are getting their homes and businesses burnt as well and white people are joining in.  *It is not a race issue*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> 
> As much as a lot of people would rather bury their heads in the sand, this is indeed a racial issue. A white police officer shot and killed a black man. His family converged upon the local police station demanding answers. A female member of the family instigated violence (I think she chucked half a brick at the police representative and she was duly restrained, though I could be wrong).
Click to expand...


Can you provide the link to the family member being the person who started the rioting and looting because I have not heard it.



Blagger said:


> A large group of blacks then went on the rampage, but in their heady path of destruction they got distracted by all the goodies left unguarded. Large groups of blacks and muslim hangers-on form the core of the rioters. Granted, there are some white aggitators, but nowhere near the number minorities.



Of course they were nowhere near the number of blacks because this is happening in predominantly black neighbourhoods.  Muslim hangers on  Where did you see this.  Someone say 'here come the black bastards and a few Muslims hanging on.'




Blagger said:


> I don't think the same reaction would've been provoked had it been a black marksman that had pulled the trigger on Duggan. The black communities in London have a history of manipulating the tentative issue of racial sensitivity in their favour. I wonder why it is that all the hotspots are where there are large, international sportwear chains? I'll give you a clue: it's not a coincidence.




Might have something a little more to do with the fact that he died under fishy circumstances which they needed explained. Our police do not usually shoot people in taxi's do they? You do know by now that the original excuse that he had shot at a policeman who was only saved by his mobile has been shown to be incorrect, don't you?

There you are just showing your racism and to be honest craziness when you start suggesting that riots come about because black people want what is in sports shops.

Do not try to claim superior knowledge on this.  I worked in Brixton when the 81 riots happened which were race riots or to be more exact they were riots caused by racism.  I worked in FE on trying to change the issues which gave rise to them, which for most UK people have been fixed. Even most Islamohpbes are not against blacks any more.  I was on a forum when a new member of the BNP said he agreed with their opinion on Muslims, but not that on blacks but he thought he would get used to it.

You make me so angry with your ignorant racism.  25 years ago my child had a friend at school who didn't like the colour of his face. Wonder why.  Because of the thinking of people like you.

A different perspective to yours



> One journalist wrote that he was surprised how many people in Tottenham knew of and were critical of the IPCC, but there should be nothing surprising about this. When you look at the figures for deaths in police custody (at least 333 since 1998 and not a single conviction of any police officer for any of them), then the IPCC and the courts are seen by many, quite reasonably, to be protecting the police rather than the people.
> 
> Combine understandable suspicion of and resentment towards the police based on experience and memory with high poverty and large unemployment and the reasons why people are taking to the streets become clear. (Haringey, the borough that includes Tottenham, has the fourth highest level of child poverty in London and an unemployment rate of 8.8%, double the national average, with one vacancy for every 54 seeking work in the borough.)
> 
> Those condemning the events of the past couple of nights in north London and elsewhere would do well to take a step back and consider the bigger picture: a country in which the richest 10% are now 100 times better off than the poorest, where consumerism predicated on personal debt has been pushed for years as the solution to a faltering economy, and where, according to the OECD, social mobility is worse than any other developed country.



There is a context to London's riots that can't be ignored | Nina Power | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk


----------



## California Girl

Riots now in Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham. This is so not about race. this is mindless hooliganism.


----------



## Modbert

St.Blues said:


> MO, Syrenn wasn't accusing any one.. She simply asked a question.
> Maybe it would have satisfied you had she asked in a different light, I don't know.
> But for goodness sake leave her alone. She's always good to all in here for the most part and has never said or even implied racist opinions.
> *Quite frankly the way blacks are behaving here these day.. They would have been my first thought as to who..*.... Muslims only act this way in there own countries, at least for now anyway.
> 
> Respectfully
> Blues



Mind explaining this?


----------



## Modbert

California Girl said:


> Riots now in Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham. This is so not about race. this is mindless hooliganism.



Yup. They're spreading everywhere. Unmanned police station is on fire in Birmingham too.


----------



## Intense

Modbert said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you are so certain of your claims, only proves how out of touch with reality you are. Nothing cultural or racial going on here. Move on now. Got it.  WTFU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She was accusing Muslims of being involved somehow even before she knew what was going on. This much is true. All I see going on in this thread is some people who care less about what's going on in the UK and rather people who just want to blame Blacks and Muslims. Very sad to say the least.
Click to expand...


The reports I see state plainly that the perpetrators are an out of control youth gang culture, that neither their society, teachers, or parents can control. It is cultural, it clearly has no respect for he life or property of others, right and wrong, or being accountable. 

What breeds that mind set Modbert? What, in the human mind makes arson, violence, theft, okay? When we blow away the rule of law, due process, what is left? Anarchy? Lawlessness? Last Man Standing? The Military is long overdue. 



> All I see going on in this thread is some people who care less about what's going on in the UK and rather people who just want to blame Blacks and Muslims. Very sad to say the least.


They are reacting to what they see, and have seen in past experience. What is sad is the violence that is going on unnecessarily and the cost of repair. What is sad is a culture that defends need or want over virtue. The Means justifies the end. What you sow you reap. Rich or poor, why are we not satisfied with living within our means. How many lives and livelihoods are being destroyed right now? To what end? For what possible justification? England was a Sanctuary to these kids parents. Life is tough, we all need to get over our hang ups. There is nothing that justifies you, or I, or them rioting. That is the main issue, not whether someone questions their ethnic or religious make up.


----------



## Wicked Jester

California Girl said:


> Riots now in Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham. This is so not about race. this is mindless hooliganism.


Started with the proverbial race card, played by the family in the first place.

But hey, we have plenty of Korean business owners here in So. Cal. who are quite adept at taking up arms and protecting their interests.......I see a grand opportunity to make serious money by renting them out to the brit business owners who's businesses need protecting.


----------



## alexa

California Girl said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a race issue. It's a thug issue. From what I'm seeing, the race of the guy killed by the police was not the issue.... the issue was that the police shot him and didn't tell his family. His family, however, are not involved in the riots and have asked for it to stop. The shooting was an excuse, not a reason. These kids are just fucking thugs. They're calling it 'recreational rioting'.
> 
> Recreational rioting? WTF? Who raises these monsters?
> 
> 
> 
> It IS a race issue, CG..........Had he been white, there would not be blacks running around and rioting like the cowards they are........They wouldn't have given a damn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am sitting and watching the riots right now, as I type. There are blacks running around and rioting.... and there are a significant number of whites rioting right along side them. If this is a race riot, please explain why we have blacks and whites rioting together - not fighting each other... they are attacking all kinds of shit but not each other.
Click to expand...


Well put.  You hit the nail on the head.


----------



## Tank

Wake up white people


----------



## St.Blues

Modbert said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> MO, Syrenn wasn't accusing any one.. She simply asked a question.
> Maybe it would have satisfied you had she asked in a different light, I don't know.
> But for goodness sake leave her alone. She's always good to all in here for the most part and has never said or even implied racist opinions.
> *Quite frankly the way blacks are behaving here these day.. They would have been my first thought as to who..*.... Muslims only act this way in there own countries, at least for now anyway.
> 
> Respectfully
> Blues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mind explaining this?
Click to expand...


Simply put.. she wondered if they were Muslims, She wasn't accusing but rather asking for information. She clearly stated she was unaware of what had occurred.
It was an innocent approach to gather information and become a part of the thread.
Please, let it go.

Respectfully
Blues


----------



## Intense

Latest

00.57 Blackberry Messenger texts being circulated and seen by the Daily Telegraph calls for a riot in Southampton town centre on Friday night.

00.45 Cars torched in Grove St, Toxteth, Liverpool, ITV news reporter Ben Schofield says. An unmanned police station in Holyhead Road, Handsworth, Birmingham has been torched. Looting reported in Crystal Palace, London. Police have told all London football clubs to cancel matches.

00.41 Residents in Croydon have been evacuated due to the spreading fire, reports Guardian's Matthew Taylor. An officer tells him: "We can't cope. We have passed breaking point."

00.29 Carphone Warehouse on fire in Clapham Junction. Fires reported in Camden.

00.28 BBC: Residents in Clapham Junction have been told to evacuate their homes by police because of gas canisters in a blazing party supplies shop.

00.27 Reports of gangs of youths smashing shop windows in Romford Market, Essex. 

London riots: live - Telegraph


----------



## syrenn

Intense said:


> Modbert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you are so certain of your claims, only proves how out of touch with reality you are. Nothing cultural or racial going on here. Move on now. Got it.  WTFU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She was accusing Muslims of being involved somehow even before she knew what was going on. This much is true. All I see going on in this thread is some people who care less about what's going on in the UK and rather people who just want to blame Blacks and Muslims. Very sad to say the least.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The reports I see state plainly that the perpetrators are an out of control youth gang culture, that neither their society, teachers, or parents can control. It is cultural, it clearly has no respect for he life or property of others, right and wrong, or being accountable.
> 
> What breeds that mind set Modbert? What, in the human mind makes arson, violence, theft, okay? When we blow away the rule of law, due process, what is left? Anarchy? Lawlessness? Last Man Standing? The Military is long overdue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All I see going on in this thread is some people who care less about what's going on in the UK and rather people who just want to blame Blacks and Muslims. Very sad to say the least.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are reacting to what they see, and have seen in past experience. What is sad is the violence that is going on unnecessarily and the cost of repair. What is sad is a culture that defends need or want over virtue. The Means justifies the end. What you sow you reap. Rich or poor, why are we not satisfied with living within our means. How many lives and livelihoods are being destroyed right now? To what end? For what possible justification? England was a Sanctuary to these kids parents. Life is tough, we all need to get over our hang ups. There is nothing that justifies you, or I, or them rioting. That is the main issue, not whether someone questions their ethnic or religious make up.
Click to expand...



They seem to be able to afford blackberries  


it is not a problem of living within your means.... it is about wanting what others have...regardless of how you get it.


----------



## Ravi

California Girl said:


> Riots now in Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham. This is so not about race. this is mindless hooliganism.



Not to make light of the situation, but when the same thing happened in Egypt it was called the Arab Spring.

Poverty makes people do bad things sometimes.


----------



## Wicked Jester

So, what would happen if a brit used deadly force to protect their property or business from these friggin' morons?


----------



## California Girl

Modbert said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Riots now in Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham. This is so not about race. this is mindless hooliganism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup. They're spreading everywhere. Unmanned police station is on fire in Birmingham too.
Click to expand...


Yep. Loads of areas of London are having massive problems. I'm watching it. If it was race related, I would call it a race riot and risk the wrath of the apologists. But this isn't. I'm watching right now - blacks and whites are rioting. And blacks and whites are having their homes and businesses trashed. Some of these rioters are just children - 12/13 years old.


----------



## Ravi

Intense said:


> Latest
> 
> 00.57 Blackberry Messenger texts being circulated and seen by the Daily Telegraph calls for a riot in Southampton town centre on Friday night.
> 
> 00.45 Cars torched in Grove St, Toxteth, Liverpool, ITV news reporter Ben Schofield says. An unmanned police station in Holyhead Road, Handsworth, Birmingham has been torched. Looting reported in Crystal Palace, London. Police have told all London football clubs to cancel matches.
> 
> 00.41 Residents in Croydon have been evacuated due to the spreading fire, reports Guardian's Matthew Taylor. An officer tells him: "We can't cope. We have passed breaking point."
> 
> 00.29 Carphone Warehouse on fire in Clapham Junction. Fires reported in Camden.
> 
> 00.28 BBC: Residents in Clapham Junction have been told to evacuate their homes by police because of gas canisters in a blazing party supplies shop.
> 
> 00.27 Reports of gangs of youths smashing shop windows in Romford Market, Essex.
> 
> London riots: live - Telegraph



Maybe England should shut down the Blackberry messenger service.


----------



## syrenn

California Girl said:


> Modbert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Riots now in Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham. This is so not about race. this is mindless hooliganism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup. They're spreading everywhere. Unmanned police station is on fire in Birmingham too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep. Loads of areas of London are having massive problems. I'm watching it. If it was race related, I would call it a race riot and risk the wrath of the apologists. But this isn't. I'm watching right now - blacks and whites are rioting. And blacks and whites are having their homes and businesses trashed. Some of these rioters are just children - 12/13 years old.
Click to expand...



Time to start shooting them.....


----------



## Intense

Ravi said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Riots now in Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham. This is so not about race. this is mindless hooliganism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not to make light of the situation, but when the same thing happened in Egypt it was called the Arab Spring.
> 
> Poverty makes people do bad things sometimes.
Click to expand...


I disagree Councillor. Poverty did not make them do anything.


----------



## California Girl

Wicked Jester said:


> So, what would happen if a brit used deadly force to protect their property or business from these friggin' morons?



They would probably get beaten to death by the looks of these rioters.


----------



## Modbert

St.Blues said:


> Simply put.. she wondered if were Muslims, She wasn't accusing but rather asking for information. She clearly stated she was unaware of what had occurred.
> It was an innocent approach to gather information and become a part of the thread.
> Please, let it go.
> 
> Respectfully
> Blues



Not quite. I'm referring to your comment of the following:



> Quite frankly the way blacks are behaving here these day.. They would have been my first thought as to who..



I wanted you to explain your statement further.

I have no intention of trying to argue with you about Syrenn because there's no point in doing so.


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Riots now in Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham. This is so not about race. this is mindless hooliganism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not to make light of the situation, but when the same thing happened in Egypt it was called the Arab Spring.
> 
> Poverty makes people do bad things sometimes.
Click to expand...


This is not the same thing at all, Rav. This is not really about poverty any more than it is about race, it is just thugs on the rampage.


----------



## Modbert

syrenn said:


> Time to start shooting them.....



Ah yes. Shooting in a crowd of people including children. This can only end well.


----------



## Intense

syrenn said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Modbert said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yup. They're spreading everywhere. Unmanned police station is on fire in Birmingham too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep. Loads of areas of London are having massive problems. I'm watching it. If it was race related, I would call it a race riot and risk the wrath of the apologists. But this isn't. I'm watching right now - blacks and whites are rioting. And blacks and whites are having their homes and businesses trashed. Some of these rioters are just children - 12/13 years old.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Time to start shooting them.....
Click to expand...


Not unless they are in the act of killing. Military long overdue. Tear gas, barricades, fire hoses, etc... The mistake was in looking away thinking this was going to calm down on it's own.


----------



## syrenn

Modbert said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to start shooting them.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah yes. Shooting in a crowd of people including children. This can only end well.
Click to expand...




That's right.


----------



## Wicked Jester

California Girl said:


> Modbert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Riots now in Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham. This is so not about race. this is mindless hooliganism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup. They're spreading everywhere. Unmanned police station is on fire in Birmingham too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep. Loads of areas of London are having massive problems. I'm watching it. If it was race related, I would call it a race riot and risk the wrath of the apologists. But this isn't. I'm watching right now - blacks and whites are rioting. And blacks and whites are having their homes and businesses trashed. Some of these rioters are just children - 12/13 years old.
Click to expand...

And blacks, whites and Koreans were having their businesses and homes trashed and looted after the King verdict in '91.

Face it, as long as those whites are rioting to support these blacks in this race riot, of course the blacks aren't going to turn down the help.


----------



## Intense

Ravi said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> Latest
> 
> 00.57 Blackberry Messenger texts being circulated and seen by the Daily Telegraph calls for a riot in Southampton town centre on Friday night.
> 
> 00.45 Cars torched in Grove St, Toxteth, Liverpool, ITV news reporter Ben Schofield says. An unmanned police station in Holyhead Road, Handsworth, Birmingham has been torched. Looting reported in Crystal Palace, London. Police have told all London football clubs to cancel matches.
> 
> 00.41 Residents in Croydon have been evacuated due to the spreading fire, reports Guardian's Matthew Taylor. An officer tells him: "We can't cope. We have passed breaking point."
> 
> 00.29 Carphone Warehouse on fire in Clapham Junction. Fires reported in Camden.
> 
> 00.28 BBC: Residents in Clapham Junction have been told to evacuate their homes by police because of gas canisters in a blazing party supplies shop.
> 
> 00.27 Reports of gangs of youths smashing shop windows in Romford Market, Essex.
> 
> London riots: live - Telegraph
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe England should shut down the Blackberry messenger service.
Click to expand...


Agreed, And the rest.


----------



## Modbert

Ernie S. said:


> For Christ sake! The OP mentioned "ethnic minorities". She simply asked for clarification. She accused no one. Had she asked, as seems to be the case, if it was blacks rioting, you still would have called her a racist. Get over it! *You don't turn her on and she won't sleep with you, no matter how often you engage in your stupid fore play*.



Strong amount of projection on your part. Pathetic behavior on your part as well.


----------



## Ravi

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Riots now in Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham. This is so not about race. this is mindless hooliganism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not to make light of the situation, but when the same thing happened in Egypt it was called the Arab Spring.
> 
> Poverty makes people do bad things sometimes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is not the same thing at all, Rav. This is not really about poverty any more than it is about race, it is just thugs on the rampage.
Click to expand...

Perhaps. But it sounds like a combination of more than one factor.


----------



## Wicked Jester

California Girl said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what would happen if a brit used deadly force to protect their property or business from these friggin' morons?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They would probably get beaten to death by the looks of these rioters.
Click to expand...

I mean what would happen as far as the laws go.


----------



## St.Blues

Modbert said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> Simply put.. she wondered if were Muslims, She wasn't accusing but rather asking for information. She clearly stated she was unaware of what had occurred.
> It was an innocent approach to gather information and become a part of the thread.
> Please, let it go.
> 
> Respectfully
> Blues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite. I'm referring to your comment of the following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quite frankly the way blacks are behaving here these day.. They would have been my first thought as to who..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wanted you to explain your statement further.
> 
> I have no intention of trying to argue with you about Syrenn because there's no point in doing so.
Click to expand...


I'm sure you have seen the same news on the web I have.. The MSM isn't talking much about it so maybe you missed it.. For one check out the country fair happenings in Wisconsin. 
If that isn't enough for you.. do some googling... there's plenty out there for you to read about especially of late.

Blues


----------



## alexa

Wicked Jester said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what would happen if a brit used deadly force to protect their property or business from these friggin' morons?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They would probably get beaten to death by the looks of these rioters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I mean what would happen as far as the laws go.
Click to expand...


You can use whatever force is needed to protect yourself but not unnecessary violence.


----------



## Ravi

St.Blues said:


> Modbert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> Simply put.. she wondered if were Muslims, She wasn't accusing but rather asking for information. She clearly stated she was unaware of what had occurred.
> It was an innocent approach to gather information and become a part of the thread.
> Please, let it go.
> 
> Respectfully
> Blues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite. I'm referring to your comment of the following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quite frankly the way blacks are behaving here these day.. They would have been my first thought as to who..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wanted you to explain your statement further.
> 
> I have no intention of trying to argue with you about Syrenn because there's no point in doing so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm sure you have seen the same news on the web I have.. The MSM isn't talking much about it so maybe you missed it.. For one check out the country fair happenings in Wisconsin.
> If that isn't enough for you.. do some googling... there's plenty out there for you to read about especially of late.
> 
> Blues
Click to expand...


Just save us all some time and give him the link to Stormfront you idiot. Where all you like minded racists hang out.


----------



## syrenn

alexa said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> They would probably get beaten to death by the looks of these rioters.
> 
> 
> 
> I mean what would happen as far as the laws go.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can use whatever force is needed to protect yourself but not unnecessary violence.
Click to expand...



I would consider that as a shoot to kill then.


----------



## Intense

London riots: Croydon residents leap from burning buildings as capital burns
People were forced to leap from the upstairs windows of a burning building in Croydon last night as rioting spread across London and beyond.

On the third consecutive night of violence and looting, hordes of balaclava-clad yobs stormed shops, setting fire to businesses indiscriminately.

As police fought running battles with mobs of rioters  many of them teenagers  detectives were also called to investigate a shooting incident. A Metropolitan Police source said the incident was believed to be non-fatal.

Among the casualties of the arson attacks was a furniture store that has stood for nearly 150 years in the south London borough.

Reeves, a family run business established in 1867, was engulfed in flames sending smoke billowing across the London skyline.

As the blaze raged out of control, the stores owner Trevor Reeves said: Its just completely destroyed. Words fail me. It's just gone, it's five generations. My father is distraught. It's just mindless thuggery." 







London riots: Croydon residents leap from burning buildings as capital burns - Telegraph


----------



## Ernie S.

Ravi said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Riots now in Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham. This is so not about race. this is mindless hooliganism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not to make light of the situation, but when the same thing happened in Egypt it was called the Arab Spring.
> 
> Poverty makes people do bad things sometimes.
Click to expand...


Do you think rioting will spread to Dublin?


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> Latest
> 
> 00.57 Blackberry Messenger texts being circulated and seen by the Daily Telegraph calls for a riot in Southampton town centre on Friday night.
> 
> 00.45 Cars torched in Grove St, Toxteth, Liverpool, ITV news reporter Ben Schofield says. An unmanned police station in Holyhead Road, Handsworth, Birmingham has been torched. Looting reported in Crystal Palace, London. Police have told all London football clubs to cancel matches.
> 
> 00.41 Residents in Croydon have been evacuated due to the spreading fire, reports Guardian's Matthew Taylor. An officer tells him: "We can't cope. We have passed breaking point."
> 
> 00.29 Carphone Warehouse on fire in Clapham Junction. Fires reported in Camden.
> 
> 00.28 BBC: Residents in Clapham Junction have been told to evacuate their homes by police because of gas canisters in a blazing party supplies shop.
> 
> 00.27 Reports of gangs of youths smashing shop windows in Romford Market, Essex.
> 
> London riots: live - Telegraph
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe England should shut down the Blackberry messenger service.
Click to expand...


NO!!!! I love my BBM! I communicate with my family on BBM!


----------



## Ravi

Ernie S. said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Riots now in Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham. This is so not about race. this is mindless hooliganism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not to make light of the situation, but when the same thing happened in Egypt it was called the Arab Spring.
> 
> Poverty makes people do bad things sometimes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you think rioting will spread to Dublin?
Click to expand...

It could spread anywhere. You might not have noticed, but there are currently a lot of people out of work around the globe.


----------



## alexa

syrenn said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> I mean what would happen as far as the laws go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can use whatever force is needed to protect yourself but not unnecessary violence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I would consider that as a shoot to kill then.
Click to expand...


We had one guy who shot two teenager burglars as they were trying to escape his home.  He shot one in the back and killed him and got a jail sentence. Unfortunately he was allowed out after only 2 years I think because people felt like you. He was a hero to them.

Minimum violence person myself. Certainly believe we have the need and right to protect ourselves but not to kill unless that is the only way to save our own lives.


----------



## California Girl

syrenn said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> I mean what would happen as far as the laws go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can use whatever force is needed to protect yourself but not unnecessary violence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I would consider that as a shoot to kill then.
Click to expand...


Shoot? With what? No one has guns here. It's illegal.


----------



## Modbert

Reports of disturbances in Bristol now.


----------



## St.Blues

Ravi said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Modbert said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite. I'm referring to your comment of the following:
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted you to explain your statement further.
> 
> I have no intention of trying to argue with you about Syrenn because there's no point in doing so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure you have seen the same news on the web I have.. The MSM isn't talking much about it so maybe you missed it.. For one check out the country fair happenings in Wisconsin.
> If that isn't enough for you.. do some googling... there's plenty out there for you to read about especially of late.
> 
> Blues
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just save us all some time and give him the link to Stormfront you idiot. Where all you like minded racists hang out.
Click to expand...


I can get you the link, thats easy... But three things first.
1. I'm not a racist
2. Change my Blues back to Blue now...................
3. Don't accuse or fuck with me like that again.

Link:http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2011/08/05/race-riots-at-the-wisconsin-state-fair/

There are a shit load of them out there.................. all you have to do is google.


----------



## California Girl

syrenn said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Modbert said:
> 
> 
> 
> She was accusing Muslims of being involved somehow even before she knew what was going on. This much is true. All I see going on in this thread is some people who care less about what's going on in the UK and rather people who just want to blame Blacks and Muslims. Very sad to say the least.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reports I see state plainly that the perpetrators are an out of control youth gang culture, that neither their society, teachers, or parents can control. It is cultural, it clearly has no respect for he life or property of others, right and wrong, or being accountable.
> 
> What breeds that mind set Modbert? What, in the human mind makes arson, violence, theft, okay? When we blow away the rule of law, due process, what is left? Anarchy? Lawlessness? Last Man Standing? The Military is long overdue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All I see going on in this thread is some people who care less about what's going on in the UK and rather people who just want to blame Blacks and Muslims. Very sad to say the least.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are reacting to what they see, and have seen in past experience. What is sad is the violence that is going on unnecessarily and the cost of repair. What is sad is a culture that defends need or want over virtue. The Means justifies the end. What you sow you reap. Rich or poor, why are we not satisfied with living within our means. How many lives and livelihoods are being destroyed right now? To what end? For what possible justification? England was a Sanctuary to these kids parents. Life is tough, we all need to get over our hang ups. There is nothing that justifies you, or I, or them rioting. That is the main issue, not whether someone questions their ethnic or religious make up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They seem to be able to afford blackberries
> 
> 
> it is not a problem of living within your means.... it is about wanting what others have...regardless of how you get it.
Click to expand...


Actually, they're breaking into phone stores and stealing more of 'em.


----------



## Ernie S.

Modbert said:


> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> For Christ sake! The OP mentioned "ethnic minorities". She simply asked for clarification. She accused no one. Had she asked, as seems to be the case, if it was blacks rioting, you still would have called her a racist. Get over it! *You don't turn her on and she won't sleep with you, no matter how often you engage in your stupid fore play*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Strong amount of projection on your part. Pathetic behavior on your part as well.
Click to expand...


And you are somehow excused of bad behavior?. You really should examine your fascination with Syrenn. I merely commented on one possible reason for it.


----------



## St.Blues

Modbert said:


> Reports of disturbances in Bristol now.



Mo, We will see similar happenings here.. its inevitable.


----------



## alexa

Ravi said:


> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not to make light of the situation, but when the same thing happened in Egypt it was called the Arab Spring.
> 
> Poverty makes people do bad things sometimes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think rioting will spread to Dublin?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could spread anywhere. You might not have noticed, but there are currently a lot of people out of work around the globe.
Click to expand...


That is the scary thing about this.  They are organising with modern technology just like they did in the 'Arab Spring'.  We have never seen anything like this.


----------



## California Girl

alexa said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can use whatever force is needed to protect yourself but not unnecessary violence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would consider that as a shoot to kill then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We had one guy who shot two teenager burglars as they were trying to escape his home.  He shot one in the back and killed him and got a jail sentence. Unfortunately he was allowed out after only 2 years I think because people felt like you. He was a hero to them.
> 
> Minimum violence person myself. Certainly believe we have the need and right to protect ourselves but not to kill unless that is the only way to save our own lives.
Click to expand...


Tony Martin. Poor old guy had been broken into several times - and had been threatened by these thugs... so the next time they broke in, he shot them. Good for him. He should never have gone to prison. He wasn't a 'hero' but he was protecting his property. Seems perfectly reasonable to me. Let me know when you've had your home broken in to - not once, not twice but time and time again - and been threatened by those people.... and have the police do nothing about it.... then tell me what 'minimum violence' is. 

People do not have the right to take what is mine and if they break into my house while I'm in it, they are not walking out. They'll get fucking carried out.


----------



## California Girl

Modbert said:


> Reports of disturbances in Bristol now.



Now, that's getting a tad close for comfort for me!


----------



## Ernie S.

Ravi said:


> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not to make light of the situation, but when the same thing happened in Egypt it was called the Arab Spring.
> 
> Poverty makes people do bad things sometimes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think rioting will spread to Dublin?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could spread anywhere. You might not have noticed, but there are currently a lot of people out of work around the globe.
Click to expand...


Dublin IRELAND (Irish Spring)?


----------



## Intense

Ravi said:


> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not to make light of the situation, but when the same thing happened in Egypt it was called the Arab Spring.
> 
> Poverty makes people do bad things sometimes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think rioting will spread to Dublin?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could spread anywhere. You might not have noticed, but there are currently a lot of people out of work around the globe.
Click to expand...


So you think that hard times justify turning anything and everything around you into burnt ash, and that if you are lucky, you might end up with somebody Else's plasma TV? Is that it? Human Nature sucks? People suck? so you might as well get what you can get away with? That's a pretty screwed up reality, Ravi. Honestly, don't you think that people are capable of so much more and better than that?


----------



## syrenn

alexa said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can use whatever force is needed to protect yourself but not unnecessary violence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would consider that as a shoot to kill then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We had one guy who shot two teenager burglars as they were trying to escape his home.  He shot one in the back and killed him and got a jail sentence. Unfortunately he was allowed out after only 2 years I think because people felt like you. He was a hero to them.
> 
> Minimum violence person myself. Certainly believe we have the need and right to protect ourselves but not to kill unless that is the only way to save our own lives.
Click to expand...


His mistake was shooting them off property and in the back while running away. 

he should have drug him back inside


----------



## St.Blues

California Girl said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would consider that as a shoot to kill then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We had one guy who shot two teenager burglars as they were trying to escape his home.  He shot one in the back and killed him and got a jail sentence. Unfortunately he was allowed out after only 2 years I think because people felt like you. He was a hero to them.
> 
> Minimum violence person myself. Certainly believe we have the need and right to protect ourselves but not to kill unless that is the only way to save our own lives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tony Martin. Poor old guy had been broken into several times - and had been threatened by these thugs... so the next time they broke in, he shot them. Good for him. He should never have gone to prison. He wasn't a 'hero' but he was protecting his property. Seems perfectly reasonable to me. Let me know when you've had your home broken in to - not once, not twice but time and time again - and been threatened by those people.... and have the police do nothing about it.... then tell me what 'minimum violence' is.
> 
> People do not have the right to take what is mine and if they break into my house while I'm in it, they are not walking out. They'll get fucking carried out.
Click to expand...


Castle Law works for me! and _I like it!_

Blues


----------



## alexa

California Girl said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would consider that as a shoot to kill then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We had one guy who shot two teenager burglars as they were trying to escape his home.  He shot one in the back and killed him and got a jail sentence. Unfortunately he was allowed out after only 2 years I think because people felt like you. He was a hero to them.
> 
> Minimum violence person myself. Certainly believe we have the need and right to protect ourselves but not to kill unless that is the only way to save our own lives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tony Martin. Poor old guy had been broken into several times - and had been threatened by these thugs... so the next time they broke in, he shot them. Good for him. He should never have gone to prison. He wasn't a 'hero' but he was protecting his property. Seems perfectly reasonable to me. Let me know when you've had your home broken in to - not once, not twice but time and time again - and been threatened by those people.... and have the police do nothing about it.... then tell me what 'minimum violence' is.
> 
> People do not have the right to take what is mine and if they break into my house while I'm in it, they are not walking out. They'll get fucking carried out.
Click to expand...


There is no reason or excuse to shoot a 16 year old child who is running away in the back.


----------



## syrenn

California Girl said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can use whatever force is needed to protect yourself but not unnecessary violence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would consider that as a shoot to kill then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shoot? With what? No one has guns here. It's illegal.
Click to expand...



LOL.... ya should and for just this reason. Can you have cross bows?


----------



## St.Blues

Ernie S. said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think rioting will spread to Dublin?
> 
> 
> 
> It could spread anywhere. You might not have noticed, but there are currently a lot of people out of work around the globe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dublin IRELAND (Irish Spring)?
Click to expand...


It smells so good! Lets have a whiskey, shall we?

Blues


----------



## St.Blues

syrenn said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would consider that as a shoot to kill then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shoot? With what? No one has guns here. It's illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LOL.... ya should and for just this reason. Can you have cross bows?
Click to expand...


Holy Shit! You had me at cross bow!

Blues


----------



## St.Blues

Intense said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think rioting will spread to Dublin?
> 
> 
> 
> It could spread anywhere. You might not have noticed, but there are currently a lot of people out of work around the globe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you think that hard times justify turning anything and everything around you into burnt ash, and that if you are lucky, you might end up with somebody Else's plasma TV? Is that it? Human Nature sucks? People suck? so you might as well get what you can get away with? That's a pretty screwed up reality, Ravi. Honestly, don't you think that people are capable of so much more and better than that?
Click to expand...


Int, She's on a mission tonight... Saying shit that doesn't apply.. and changing quotes.
She just acting kinda weird tonight. She'll be okay in a little while.

Blues


----------



## HenryBHough

Modbert said:


> HenryBHough said:
> 
> 
> 
> When a huge percentage of young males have never held a job - because there ARE NO jobs they do grow restless.
> 
> London is merely prototypical for what's coming worldwide.  Especially if/when America's Kenyan President starts bringing troops home from his illegal wars and they discover there are no jobs here, either.
> 
> This cycle started in a part of London that is strongly black so it is only logical that most of the participants are black.  As it has spread to other sections the mixture grows lighter.  Likely to work that way here, too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kenyan President? Seriously? Go grow.
Click to expand...


You deny his proud talk about his family tree?  The one from which his biological father descended to write his diatribes on colonialism that shaped the lad into the socialist firebrand he has become?  Who DO you think was his father, then?


----------



## St.Blues

HenryBHough said:


> Modbert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HenryBHough said:
> 
> 
> 
> When a huge percentage of young males have never held a job - because there ARE NO jobs they do grow restless.
> 
> London is merely prototypical for what's coming worldwide.  Especially if/when America's Kenyan President starts bringing troops home from his illegal wars and they discover there are no jobs here, either.
> 
> This cycle started in a part of London that is strongly black so it is only logical that most of the participants are black.  As it has spread to other sections the mixture grows lighter.  Likely to work that way here, too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kenyan President? Seriously? Go grow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You deny his proud talk about his family tree?  The one from which his biological father descended to write his diatribes on colonialism that shaped the lad into the socialist firebrand he has become?  Who DO you think was his father, then?
Click to expand...


Yes Henry, but the issue here is about the rioting in England. If you don't mind I'd like to see where this thread goes... rather than change it up.

Any new news breaking yet?


----------



## Wicked Jester

alexa said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can use whatever force is needed to protect yourself but not unnecessary violence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would consider that as a shoot to kill then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We had one guy who shot two teenager burglars as they were trying to escape his home.  He shot one in the back and killed him and got a jail sentence. Unfortunately he was allowed out after only 2 years I think because people felt like you. He was a hero to them.
> 
> Minimum violence person myself. Certainly believe we have the need and right to protect ourselves but not to kill unless that is the only way to save our own lives.
Click to expand...

Sad thing is, that lunatic in Norway only faces a maximum of 21 years due to their sentencing guidelines........That's a real punishment alright!

I have many relatives in Norway who are pissed off about it.......At least some euro's are coming around to reality.


----------



## Ravi

St.Blues said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure you have seen the same news on the web I have.. The MSM isn't talking much about it so maybe you missed it.. For one check out the country fair happenings in Wisconsin.
> If that isn't enough for you.. do some googling... there's plenty out there for you to read about especially of late.
> 
> Blues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just save us all some time and give him the link to Stormfront you idiot. Where all you like minded racists hang out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can get you the link, thats easy... But three things first.
> 1. I'm not a racist
> 2. Change my Blues back to Blue now...................
> 3. Don't accuse or fuck with me like that again.
> 
> Link:Race riots at the Wisconsin State Fair « The Greenroom
> 
> There are a shit load of them out there.................. all you have to do is google.
Click to expand...


Why do you hate pink? Are you also a sexist?


----------



## Ravi

Ernie S. said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think rioting will spread to Dublin?
> 
> 
> 
> It could spread anywhere. You might not have noticed, but there are currently a lot of people out of work around the globe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dublin IRELAND (Irish Spring)?
Click to expand...

Alright, that was funny.


----------



## St.Blues

Wicked Jester said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would consider that as a shoot to kill then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We had one guy who shot two teenager burglars as they were trying to escape his home.  He shot one in the back and killed him and got a jail sentence. Unfortunately he was allowed out after only 2 years I think because people felt like you. He was a hero to them.
> 
> Minimum violence person myself. Certainly believe we have the need and right to protect ourselves but not to kill unless that is the only way to save our own lives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sad thing is, that lunatic in Norway only faces a maximum of 21 years due to their sentencing guidelines........That's a real punishment alright!
> 
> I have many relatives in Norway who are pissed off about it.......At least some euro's are coming around to reality.
Click to expand...


We can only hope the liberals here will have a new vision or realization for America. It would be nice if they would.. We could all pull together and restore Government for the good of the nation and its citizens.

Blues


----------



## Ravi

Intense said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think rioting will spread to Dublin?
> 
> 
> 
> It could spread anywhere. You might not have noticed, but there are currently a lot of people out of work around the globe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you think that hard times justify turning anything and everything around you into burnt ash, and that if you are lucky, you might end up with somebody Else's plasma TV? Is that it? Human Nature sucks? People suck? so you might as well get what you can get away with? That's a pretty screwed up reality, Ravi. Honestly, don't you think that people are capable of so much more and better than that?
Click to expand...

I don't think it justifies it. Just being a realist, dear.


----------



## del

Modbert said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you are so certain of your claims, only proves how out of touch with reality you are. Nothing cultural or racial going on here. Move on now. Got it.  WTFU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She was accusing Muslims of being involved somehow even before she knew what was going on. This much is true. All I see going on in this thread is some people who care less about what's going on in the UK and rather people who just want to blame Blacks and Muslims. Very sad to say the least.
Click to expand...


she never accused anyone; she asked if muslims were involved.


----------



## Ravi

St.Blues said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> It could spread anywhere. You might not have noticed, but there are currently a lot of people out of work around the globe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you think that hard times justify turning anything and everything around you into burnt ash, and that if you are lucky, you might end up with somebody Else's plasma TV? Is that it? Human Nature sucks? People suck? so you might as well get what you can get away with? That's a pretty screwed up reality, Ravi. Honestly, don't you think that people are capable of so much more and better than that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Int, She's on a mission tonight... Saying shit that doesn't apply.. and changing quotes.
> She just acting kinda weird tonight. She'll be okay in a little while.
> 
> Blues
Click to expand...


 I didn't change your quote.


----------



## St.Blues

Ravi said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just save us all some time and give him the link to Stormfront you idiot. Where all you like minded racists hang out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can get you the link, thats easy... But three things first.
> 1. I'm not a racist
> 2. Change my Blues back to Blue now...................
> 3. Don't accuse or fuck with me like that again.
> 
> Link:Race riots at the Wisconsin State Fair « The Greenroom
> 
> There are a shit load of them out there.................. all you have to do is google.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you hate pink? Are you also a sexist?
Click to expand...


Common Ravi, just because your hot doesn't mean I have to cave in for ya... I like pink a lot.. Hot red works for me to.. But only in the right places.


----------



## St.Blues

Ravi said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you think that hard times justify turning anything and everything around you into burnt ash, and that if you are lucky, you might end up with somebody Else's plasma TV? Is that it? Human Nature sucks? People suck? so you might as well get what you can get away with? That's a pretty screwed up reality, Ravi. Honestly, don't you think that people are capable of so much more and better than that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Int, She's on a mission tonight... Saying shit that doesn't apply.. and changing quotes.
> She just acting kinda weird tonight. She'll be okay in a little while.
> 
> Blues
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't change your quote.
Click to expand...


You owe me a kiss......... and I want it!

Blues


----------



## alexa

Wicked Jester said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would consider that as a shoot to kill then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We had one guy who shot two teenager burglars as they were trying to escape his home.  He shot one in the back and killed him and got a jail sentence. Unfortunately he was allowed out after only 2 years I think because people felt like you. He was a hero to them.
> 
> Minimum violence person myself. Certainly believe we have the need and right to protect ourselves but not to kill unless that is the only way to save our own lives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sad thing is, that lunatic in Norway only faces a maximum of 21 years due to their sentencing guidelines........That's a real punishment alright!
> 
> I have many relatives in Norway who are pissed off about it.......At least some euro's are coming around to reality.
Click to expand...


Have they not told you that he will probably get life imprisonment.  Norway has a thing called 'containment' which they use in extreme cases.  After the person has done their 21 years they have a review and add another 5 years on.  They can do that again until he dies.

Coming round to the reality that the global anti-islam movement is dangerous and in a symbiotic relationship with radical muslims and Al Quaeda, yes,


----------



## del

California Girl said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can use whatever force is needed to protect yourself but not unnecessary violence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would consider that as a shoot to kill then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shoot? With what? No one has guns here. It's illegal.
Click to expand...




tell the duggans


----------



## Tank

This will wake more white folks up to the bulshit called "diversity"


----------



## St.Blues

Ravi said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you think that hard times justify turning anything and everything around you into burnt ash, and that if you are lucky, you might end up with somebody Else's plasma TV? Is that it? Human Nature sucks? People suck? so you might as well get what you can get away with? That's a pretty screwed up reality, Ravi. Honestly, don't you think that people are capable of so much more and better than that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Int, She's on a mission tonight... Saying shit that doesn't apply.. and changing quotes.
> She just acting kinda weird tonight. She'll be okay in a little while.
> 
> Blues
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't change your quote.
Click to expand...


Yellow, You bugger........ Now its two Kisses and three hugs and I want em! 

Blues


----------



## syrenn

del said:


> Modbert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you are so certain of your claims, only proves how out of touch with reality you are. Nothing cultural or racial going on here. Move on now. Got it.  WTFU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She was accusing Muslims of being involved somehow even before she knew what was going on. This much is true. All I see going on in this thread is some people who care less about what's going on in the UK and rather people who just want to blame Blacks and Muslims. Very sad to say the least.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> she never accused anyone; she asked if muslims were involved.
Click to expand...



He does not get that. He has islamaphobeitise...sees it everywhere. 

Thanks del.


----------



## St.Blues

Anything new happening,  Breaking news?

Blues


----------



## syrenn

St.Blues said:


> Anything new happening,  Breaking news?
> 
> Blues





You're going to break the news?


----------



## Modbert

London riots: the third night

According to The Guardian:



> Copycat rioters rampaged through *Bristol *today with police chiefs warning of "volatile" scenes in the city centre.
> 
> More than 150 young rioters were causing disruption in the areas of St Paul's and Stokes Croft, the scene of rioting earlier this year amid anger over a new Tesco store.
> 
> People were warned to stay clear of the city centre as police launched efforts to bring the scenes under control.


----------



## Wicked Jester

alexa said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> We had one guy who shot two teenager burglars as they were trying to escape his home.  He shot one in the back and killed him and got a jail sentence. Unfortunately he was allowed out after only 2 years I think because people felt like you. He was a hero to them.
> 
> Minimum violence person myself. Certainly believe we have the need and right to protect ourselves but not to kill unless that is the only way to save our own lives.
> 
> 
> 
> Sad thing is, that lunatic in Norway only faces a maximum of 21 years due to their sentencing guidelines........That's a real punishment alright!
> 
> I have many relatives in Norway who are pissed off about it.......At least some euro's are coming around to reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have they not told you that he will probably get life imprisonment.  Norway has a thing called 'containment' which they use in extreme cases.  After the person has done their 21 years they have a review and add another 5 years on.  They can do that again until he dies.
> 
> Coming round to the reality that the global anti-islam movement is dangerous and in a symbiotic relationship with radical muslims and Al Quaeda, yes,
Click to expand...

That's not the point. They want to see a flat out sentence. Life or death. They want a clear message sent, without having to put up with the review process. They want stricter sentencing guidelines.

Norway needs to wake up. They are very vulnerable, as was proven by a simple crazy farmer who was able to pull off not one, but two huge attacks. Who was able to roam around that island and shoot whomever he pleased for a very long time, completely unchallenged by anybody........They have a huge a target on their backs. The muslims will strike for a myriad of reasons. Their alignment with the US, and not to mention the cartoon that infuriated the dirty, crazy lil' towelheaded motherfuckers.


----------



## St.Blues

syrenn said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anything new happening,  Breaking news?
> 
> Blues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're going to break the news?
Click to expand...


Oh Baby, How I could answer this one, I won't though it may be offensive to some.
I see Dead People..........................

Blues


----------



## St.Blues

Wicked Jester said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sad thing is, that lunatic in Norway only faces a maximum of 21 years due to their sentencing guidelines........That's a real punishment alright!
> 
> I have many relatives in Norway who are pissed off about it.......At least some euro's are coming around to reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have they not told you that he will probably get life imprisonment.  Norway has a thing called 'containment' which they use in extreme cases.  After the person has done their 21 years they have a review and add another 5 years on.  They can do that again until he dies.
> 
> Coming round to the reality that the global anti-islam movement is dangerous and in a symbiotic relationship with radical muslims and Al Quaeda, yes,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's not the point. They want to see a flat out sentence. Life or death. They want a clear message sent, without having to put up with the review process. They want stricter sentencing guidelines.
> 
> Norway needs to wake up. They are very vulnerable, as was proven by a simple crazy farmer who was able to pull off not one, but two huge attacks. Who was able to roam around that island and shoot whomever he pleased for a very long time, completely unchallenged by anybody........They have a huge a target on their backs. The muslims will strike for a myriad of reasons. Their alignment with the US, and not to mention the cartoon that infuriated the dirty, crazy lil' towelheaded motherfuckers.
Click to expand...


Hey Hey now.. You for got literate. 

Blues


----------



## GHook93

Mark Duggan: Violence, drugs, a fatal stabbing and a most unlikely martyr | Mail Online

He is very similar to King. Duggan was not a moral individual like Rodney. King was an alcoholic stopped for DUI numerous times. Arrested a few dozen times for assault, domestic violence, larceny and robbery! Duggan was a violence drug dealer, with a history of attacking the police!

Just like King, Duggan was far from an angel and was a very immoral figure! Actually this guy was worse than King. King was a low life wife beating alcoholic. Duggan was a violence, drug-dealing, murderous gangster. He poisoned the city he grew up in and the left is of course holding this guy out like he is Martin Luther King Jr! 



> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-drugs-fatal-stabbing-unlikely-martyr.htmlHer fiance, Mark Duggan, was travelling in a minicab in North London on Thursday evening when it was stopped by officers from Scotland Yards Operation Trident, who specialise in fighting black-on-black gun crime.
> 
> The officers were armed with Heckler & Koch submachine guns and there was an apparent exchange of fire. Moments later Duggan was dead.
> 
> On the streets of the Broadwater Farm estate, where Mark Duggan grew up, he was also known by another name: Starrish Mark.
> It sounds like an innocent nickname; it was anything but. In fact, the word Starrish denoted his membership of a notorious crew called The Star Gang who strut the streets of Londons N17.
> The stock-in-trade of such postcode gangs is violence, intimidation and, more often than not, drugs.
> Duggan himself, according to some residents, was a crack cocaine dealer who routinely carried a gun.
> 
> Duggan was paranoid about what happened to his cousin, said one local. He had a gun to protect himself because of what happened to Kelvin.
> So much for Mark Duggan being a well respected member of his community, as he is described on a memorial website.
> That respect was underpinned by fear.
> 
> The Star Gang is an offshoot of Tottenhams Man dem gang which has links with Jamaicas ruthless Yardie gangsters.
> Back in the late Nineties, Man dem, whose territory included Broadwater Farm (where Duggan grew up, remember), controlled dozens of crack houses and its psychopathic members or soldiers, as they styled themselves, were believed to be behind countless shootings, robberies, kidnappings and gangland killings.
> The leader was one Mark Lambie, who police suspected was implicated in the murder of PC Keith Blakelock, hacked to death by a mob during the infamous riot on Broadwater Farm in 1985. Lambie was just 14 at the time.
> He was eventually jailed for 12 years in 2002 for other gang-related crimes (which involved torturing two rivals with a hammer and an electric iron, and pouring boiling water over their genitals).


----------



## St.Blues

GHook93 said:


> Mark Duggan: Violence, drugs, a fatal stabbing and a most unlikely martyr | Mail Online
> 
> He is very similar to King. Duggan was not a moral individual like Rodney. King was an alcoholic stopped for DUI numerous times. Arrested a few dozen times for assault, domestic violence, larceny and robbery! Duggan was a violence drug dealer, with a history of attacking the police!
> 
> Just like King, Duggan was far from an angel and was a very immoral figure! Actually this guy was worse than King. King was a low life wife beating alcoholic. Duggan was a violence, drug-dealing, murderous gangster. He poisoned the city he grew up in and the left is of course holding this guy out like he is Martin Luther King Jr!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-drugs-fatal-stabbing-unlikely-martyr.htmlHer fiance, Mark Duggan, was travelling in a minicab in North London on Thursday evening when it was stopped by officers from Scotland Yards Operation Trident, who specialise in fighting black-on-black gun crime.
> 
> The officers were armed with Heckler & Koch submachine guns and there was an apparent exchange of fire. Moments later Duggan was dead.
> 
> On the streets of the Broadwater Farm estate, where Mark Duggan grew up, he was also known by another name: Starrish Mark.
> It sounds like an innocent nickname; it was anything but. In fact, the word Starrish denoted his membership of a notorious crew called The Star Gang who strut the streets of Londons N17.
> The stock-in-trade of such postcode gangs is violence, intimidation and, more often than not, drugs.
> Duggan himself, according to some residents, was a crack cocaine dealer who routinely carried a gun.
> 
> Duggan was paranoid about what happened to his cousin, said one local. He had a gun to protect himself because of what happened to Kelvin.
> So much for Mark Duggan being a well respected member of his community, as he is described on a memorial website.
> That respect was underpinned by fear.
> 
> The Star Gang is an offshoot of Tottenhams Man dem gang which has links with Jamaicas ruthless Yardie gangsters.
> Back in the late Nineties, Man dem, whose territory included Broadwater Farm (where Duggan grew up, remember), controlled dozens of crack houses and its psychopathic members or soldiers, as they styled themselves, were believed to be behind countless shootings, robberies, kidnappings and gangland killings.
> The leader was one Mark Lambie, who police suspected was implicated in the murder of PC Keith Blakelock, hacked to death by a mob during the infamous riot on Broadwater Farm in 1985. Lambie was just 14 at the time.
> He was eventually jailed for 12 years in 2002 for other gang-related crimes (which involved torturing two rivals with a hammer and an electric iron, and pouring boiling water over their genitals).
Click to expand...


This is very true.. But it doesn't change the fact the Ghook93 will always be a fucking moronic liberal.

*Blues*


----------



## St.Blues

modbert said:


> london riots: The third night
> 
> according to the guardian:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> copycat rioters rampaged through *bristol *today with police chiefs warning of "volatile" scenes in the city centre.
> 
> More than 150 young rioters were causing disruption in the areas of st paul's and stokes croft, the scene of rioting earlier this year amid anger over a new tesco store.
> 
> People were warned to stay clear of the city centre as police launched efforts to bring the scenes under control.
Click to expand...

*
bingo!*


----------



## Rat in the Hat

St.Blues said:


> Anything new happening,  Breaking news?
> 
> Blues



20 of the little punks burned down the Sony distribution center in Enfield after looting it.


----------



## westwall

Ravi said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds like a combination of poverty and the police having special powers, to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Huh?
> 
> Police by the very nature of their job have special powers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But these apparently are extra special powers. Read the link I posted.
Click to expand...






What link?  Special Police forces are non regional but have a specific mission like the British Transport Police or the Serious Organised Crime Police.  Some of them are armed unlike the majority of British police.  BTW the British cops can now arm themselves with a snub nosed .38 revolver if they wish.  Most choose not to.


----------



## syrenn

Rat in the Hat said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anything new happening,  Breaking news?
> 
> Blues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20 of the little punks burned down the Sony distribution center in Enfield after looting it.
Click to expand...




To bad they did not get caught in the flames and burn to death.


----------



## Rat in the Hat

syrenn said:


> Rat in the Hat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anything new happening,  Breaking news?
> 
> Blues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20 of the little punks burned down the Sony distribution center in Enfield after looting it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To bad they did not get caught in the flames and burn to death.
Click to expand...


BBC reported that 2 of the punks stopped to beat up a witness and try to take his camera, and were caught by the cops.


----------



## St.Blues

Rat in the Hat said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anything new happening,  Breaking news?
> 
> Blues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20 of the little punks burned down the Sony distribution center in Enfield after looting it.
Click to expand...


Are you any less surprised about this than I am.. ?

Blues


----------



## chesswarsnow

Sorry bout that,


1. Civil unrest is a Muslim mainstay, look around folks, its happening all over the middle east.
2. The Muslims are making their play for jolly old England.
3. Trust me, there are many black Muslims.
4. Could happen here, but if it does, white people will show up with guns.
5. You think I could get a few dings on my rep count for maybe being a *racist*?



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


----------



## syrenn

Rat in the Hat said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rat in the Hat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 20 of the little punks burned down the Sony distribution center in Enfield after looting it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To bad they did not get caught in the flames and burn to death.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> BBC reported that 2 of the punks stopped to beat up a witness and try to take his camera, and were caught by the cops.
Click to expand...



Caught is not brunt to death.... to bad.... 


but i am glad they were caught.


----------



## alexa

Well the police brought in armoured vehicles for the first time last night.  Totally mindless thuggery going on.

Early talk on bringing in the army, curfews or water cannon have just been denied by Theresa May who says the Police will deal with this as it is a criminal matter.

On a different positive level, people have started twitting about clearing things up and getting things sorted showing the real community spirit there is in London which may have been forgotten in all this.


----------



## California Girl

syrenn said:


> Rat in the Hat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To bad they did not get caught in the flames and burn to death.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBC reported that 2 of the punks stopped to beat up a witness and try to take his camera, and were caught by the cops.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Caught is not brunt to death.... to bad....
> 
> 
> but i am glad they were caught.
Click to expand...


450 of the little thugs have been arrested so far. 

The cold light of day shows the amount of damage - it's pretty horrific. Whole rows of stores and homes have been completely destroyed. Thousands of ordinary hard working people - of a variety of ethnic backgrounds - are now homeless and have lost everything just because some little brats can't behave like civilized human beings.

If you ask me, everyone involved - including the families of these little thugs - should lose any kind of government assistance - permanently. Let them live on the fucking streets that they've destroyed.


----------



## ekrem

First the University protests, now this. 
Instead of putting money into "nothing" (Lybia) maybe the Brits should re-route some of that money into the more important things, I mean the money they take as credit.


----------



## Toro

California Girl said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rat in the Hat said:
> 
> 
> 
> BBC reported that 2 of the punks stopped to beat up a witness and try to take his camera, and were caught by the cops.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Caught is not brunt to death.... to bad....
> 
> 
> but i am glad they were caught.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 450 of the little thugs have been arrested so far.
> 
> The cold light of day shows the amount of damage - it's pretty horrific. Whole rows of stores and homes have been completely destroyed. Thousands of ordinary hard working people - of a variety of ethnic backgrounds - are now homeless and have lost everything just because some little brats can't behave like civilized human beings.
> 
> If you ask me, everyone involved - including the families of these little thugs - should lose any kind of government assistance - permanently. Let them live on the fucking streets that they've destroyed.
Click to expand...


Deport anyone who was involved who isn't a British citizen.


----------



## Colin

Tank said:


> Wake up white people



People like YOU are part of the problem, not the solution, you worthless piece of detritis!


----------



## Swagger

A woman across the road from us poured boiling water over a passing group of looters from her window after her son came home after being attacked in the street.


----------



## ekrem

Toro said:


> Deport anyone who was involved who isn't a British citizen.



Maybe Prince Harry will wear his costume from 2005 whilst they're being deported.


----------



## Colin

This isn't racism. It's anarchy, mindless vandalism, sheer criminality and wilful violence. We are now seeing the results of bleeding heart liberalism. Those who destroyed discipline in this country and replaced it with political correctness.

...and students who believe the world owes them a free ticket.






London riots: From Hackney to Brixton Twitter and Blackberry help looters co-ordinate raids | Mail Online


----------



## Colin

Seems that many of the rioters and looters are kids as young as seven! That being the case, the parents of those arrested who are under 16 should be arrested and charged as well!


----------



## Colin

ekrem said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deport anyone who was involved who isn't a British citizen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe Prince Harry will wear his costume from 2005 whilst they're being deported.
Click to expand...


What is that supposed to mean, Ekrem?


----------



## Ravi

Colin said:


> This isn't racism. It's anarchy, mindless vandalism, sheer criminality and wilful violence. We are now seeing the results of bleeding heart liberalism. Those who destroyed discipline in this country and replaced it with political correctness.
> 
> ...and students who believe the world owes them a free ticket.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> London riots: From Hackney to Brixton Twitter and Blackberry help looters co-ordinate raids | Mail Online


Beat the feds? That doesn't sound like bleeding heart liberalism, it sounds like libertarian/anarchists.


----------



## California Girl

Colin said:


> This isn't racism. It's anarchy, mindless vandalism, sheer criminality and wilful violence. We are now seeing the results of bleeding heart liberalism. Those who destroyed discipline in this country and replaced it with political correctness.
> 
> ...and students who believe the world owes them a free ticket.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> London riots: From Hackney to Brixton Twitter and Blackberry help looters co-ordinate raids | Mail Online





The more I see of this anarchy, the more I am of a very similar opinion. This is a systemic failure of 'liberal' policies that have, for the past few decades, seem the removal of discipline from UK schools, a breakdown of responsible parenting, and government policies that reward idleness and a causal attitude towards decency. 

Further... and this is possibly less offensive to the 'liberals'... I also think that it is a failure of successive UK governments to recognize the very real need for vocational and apprentice style alternatives to higher education. Not everyone can achieve academically and the UK has become a nation where those without a University education are written off. As a society, the UK needs to invest in alternatives to university that lead to jobs and a future for young people. 

They also need to teach young people to take the fucking hoods off, pull up their pants and stop talking with these ridiculous fake 'Jamaican' accents. These kids need to be told... "No one will employ you if you can't show your face, no one wants to see your underwear or your ass and you make yourself look like a fucking moron with these ridiculous, unintelligible, faux 'yardee' accents. You are not fucking 'gangsters'. Grow up you little bastards"


----------



## strollingbones

but they are gangsters.....as evidenced by their behavior


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't racism. It's anarchy, mindless vandalism, sheer criminality and wilful violence. We are now seeing the results of bleeding heart liberalism. Those who destroyed discipline in this country and replaced it with political correctness.
> 
> ...and students who believe the world owes them a free ticket.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> London riots: From Hackney to Brixton Twitter and Blackberry help looters co-ordinate raids | Mail Online
> 
> 
> 
> Beat the feds? That doesn't sound like bleeding heart liberalism, it sounds like libertarian/anarchists.
Click to expand...


Even more amusing.... the Brits don't even have 'feds'. Clearly this kid is an idiot. He thinks he's in America.


----------



## strollingbones

anarchy is not and never has been the result of liberal thinking or of political parties...anarchist stand alone with few goals or ambitions other than fucking up the system....you will find that on both sides of the spectrum.....

anarchy cannot be tolerated....the whole goal of anarchist is simple destruction


----------



## Toro

ekrem said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deport anyone who was involved who isn't a British citizen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe Prince Harry will wear his costume from 2005 whilst they're being deported.
Click to expand...


Whatever it takes.

If you aren't a citizen and you are tearing up the streets of my city, fuck off back from where you came.  If you are a citizen and you are tearing up the streets, spend time in jail.


----------



## Toro

Blagger said:


> A woman across the road from us poured boiling water over a passing group of looters from her window after her son came home after being attacked in the street.



Good for her.

Too bad it wasn't boiling oil.


----------



## California Girl

strollingbones said:


> but they are gangsters.....as evidenced by their behavior



Nah, they're just a bunch of little brats who's parents should, by rights, spend the rest of their lives paying off the damage done by their offspring.


----------



## California Girl

strollingbones said:


> anarchy is not and never has been the result of liberal thinking or of political parties...anarchist stand alone with few goals or ambitions other than fucking up the system....you will find that on both sides of the spectrum.....
> 
> anarchy cannot be tolerated....the whole goal of anarchist is simple destruction



With respect (and I really do mean that), I disagree. It is very much the result of decades of overly lenient attitudes towards standards of behavior. These kids need discipline. And they do not get it... not at home, not in school, not by society. This is the result of that. And those attitudes - they are liberal attitudes. These are Labour policies in action. Conservatives in the UK have always been the 'law and order' party.


----------



## Ravi

strollingbones said:


> but they are gangsters.....as evidenced by their behavior


Don't you know that only liberals are gangsters?


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> but they are gangsters.....as evidenced by their behavior
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you know that only liberals are gangsters?
Click to expand...


That's actually not what I said. I doubt these kids know or care what a 'liberal' is. It's not about politics for them. I said this is a result of decades of 'liberal' policies - that is not the same thing as saying the rioters are liberals. 

Don't spin my words Ravi.


----------



## Ravi

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> but they are gangsters.....as evidenced by their behavior
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you know that only liberals are gangsters?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's actually not what I said. I doubt these kids know or care what a 'liberal' is. It's not about politics for them. I said this is a result of decades of 'liberal' policies - that is not the same thing as saying the rioters are liberals.
> 
> Don't spin my words Ravi.
Click to expand...

Don't be so sensitive.

It is always easy to blame others, isn't it? Here we blame everything on blacks, Mexicans, gays and Liberals.

I see that Britain isn't any different.


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you know that only liberals are gangsters?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's actually not what I said. I doubt these kids know or care what a 'liberal' is. It's not about politics for them. I said this is a result of decades of 'liberal' policies - that is not the same thing as saying the rioters are liberals.
> 
> Don't spin my words Ravi.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't be so sensitive.
> 
> It is always easy to blame others, isn't it? Here we blame everything on blacks, Mexicans, gays and Liberals.
> 
> I see that Britain isn't any different.
Click to expand...


'We' don't, idiots do. I don't think you blame everything on blacks, mexicans, or gays. Maybe you do blame conservatives though. 

I don't 'blame' liberals. I blame liberal policies - huge difference. I think we need to try and differentiate between individuals and policies.


----------



## Swagger

California Girl said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> anarchy is not and never has been the result of liberal thinking or of political parties...anarchist stand alone with few goals or ambitions other than fucking up the system....you will find that on both sides of the spectrum.....
> 
> anarchy cannot be tolerated....the whole goal of anarchist is simple destruction
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With respect (and I really do mean that), I disagree. *It is very much the result of decades of overly lenient attitudes towards standards of behavior. These kids need discipline. And they do not get it... not at home, not in school, not by society. This is the result of that. And those attitudes - they are liberal attitudes. These are Labour policies in action. Conservatives in the UK have always been the 'law and order' party.*
Click to expand...


Christ on a bike! California Girl's literally jumping up and down on the head of this particular nail.


----------



## Ravi

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's actually not what I said. I doubt these kids know or care what a 'liberal' is. It's not about politics for them. I said this is a result of decades of 'liberal' policies - that is not the same thing as saying the rioters are liberals.
> 
> Don't spin my words Ravi.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be so sensitive.
> 
> It is always easy to blame others, isn't it? Here we blame everything on blacks, Mexicans, gays and Liberals.
> 
> I see that Britain isn't any different.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 'We' don't, idiots do. I don't think you blame everything on blacks, mexicans, or gays. Maybe you do blame conservatives though.
> 
> I don't 'blame' liberals. I blame liberal policies - huge difference. I think we need to try and differentiate between individuals and policies.
Click to expand...


 Tar baby thread all over again.


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be so sensitive.
> 
> It is always easy to blame others, isn't it? Here we blame everything on blacks, Mexicans, gays and Liberals.
> 
> I see that Britain isn't any different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'We' don't, idiots do. I don't think you blame everything on blacks, mexicans, or gays. Maybe you do blame conservatives though.
> 
> I don't 'blame' liberals. I blame liberal policies - huge difference. I think we need to try and differentiate between individuals and policies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tar baby thread all over again.
Click to expand...


Yea, I think you're right. No disrespect intended - cuz you know I love ya - but I think I tend to intellectualize my arguments more than many people on this forum. This is why I rarely debate on this board. I have an intellectual approach which doesn't really fit on this board.


----------



## Colin

Lesson for Tank...skin colour doesn't determine whether or not one is a scumbag!


London riots: Shock video shows victim robbed by mob - Crime - London 24


----------



## sparky

So, the fiscal /political holy rollers parlay the economy into their back pocket(s) , and the dopes of the world feeling the pitch take it out on each other

nice work if you can get it



Pass this on to all you know!!! 

A very interesting column..  COMPLETELY NEUTRAL 
Be sure to Read the Poem at the end. 

Charley Reese's final column for the Orlando Sentinel... 
He has been a journalist for 49 years. 
He is retiring and this is HIS LAST COLUMN. 

Be sure to read the Tax List at the end. 

This is about as clear and easy to understand as it can be. The article below is completely neutral, neither anti-republican or democrat.  Charlie Reese, a retired reporter for the Orlando Sentinel, has hit the nail directly on the head, defining clearly who it is that in the final analysis must assume responsibility for the judgments made that impact each one of us every day.  It's a short but good read.  Worth the time.  Worth remembering! 

      545 vs. 300,000,000 People 
        -By Charlie Reese 

Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them. 

Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, WHY do we have deficits? 

Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes? 

You and I don't propose a federal budget. The President does. 

You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does. 

You and I don't write the tax code, Congress does. 

You and I don't set fiscal policy, Congress does. 

You and I don't control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does. 

One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one President, and nine Supreme Court justices equates to 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country. 

I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central bank. 

I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason. They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman, or a President to do one cotton-picking thing. I don't care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator's responsibility to determine how he votes. 

Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of party. 

What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall.  No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating  deficits. The President can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it. 

The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House? John Boehner. He is the leader of the majority party. He and fellow House members, not the President, can approve any budget they want.  If the President vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree to. 

It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million cannot replace 545 people who stand convicted -- by present facts -- of incompetence and irresponsibility. I can't think of a single domestic problem that is not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the federal  government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist. 

If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair. 

If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red. 

If the Army & Marines are in Iraq and Afghanistan it's because they want them in  Iraq and Afghanistan .... 

If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan not available to the people, it's because they want it that way. 

There are no insoluble government problems. 

Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take this power. Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists disembodied mystical forces like "the economy," "inflation," or "politics" that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do. 

Those 545 people, and they  alone, are responsible. 

They, and they alone, have the power. 

They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses. 

Provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees... 

We should vote all of  them out of office and clean up their mess! 

Charlie Reese is a former columnist of the Orlando   Sentinel  Newspaper. 

What you do with this article now that you have read it... is up to you. 
This might be funny if it weren't so  true. 
Be sure to read all the way to the end: 

                               Tax his land, 
                               Tax his bed, 
                               Tax the table, 
                               At which he's fed. 

                               Tax his tractor, 
                               Tax his mule, 
                               Teach him taxes 
                               Are the rule. 

                               Tax his work, 
                               Tax his pay, 
                               He works for 
                               peanuts anyway! 

                               Tax his cow, 
                               Tax his goat, 
                               Tax his pants, 
                               Tax his coat. 

                               Tax his ties, 
                               Tax his shirt, 
                               Tax his work, 
                               Tax his dirt. 

                               Tax his tobacco, 
                               Tax his drink, 
                               Tax him if he 
                               Tries to think. 

                               Tax his cigars, 
                               Tax his beers, 
                               If he cries 
                               Tax his tears. 

                               Tax his car, 
                               Tax his gas, 
                               Find other ways 
                               To tax his ass. 

                               Tax all he has 
                               Then let him know 
                               That you won't be done 
                               Till he has no dough. 

                               When he screams and hollers; 
                               Then tax him some more, 
                               Tax him till 
                               He's good and sore. 

                               Then tax his coffin, 
                               Tax his grave, 
                               Tax the sod in 
                               Which he's laid... 

                               Put these words 
                               Upon his tomb, 
                               'Taxes drove me 
                               to my doom...' 

                               When he's gone, 
                               Do not relax, 
                               Its time to apply 
                               The inheritance tax. 

                               Accounts Receivable Tax 
                               Building Permit Tax 
                               CDL license Tax 
                               Cigarette Tax 
                               Corporate Income Tax 
                               Dog License Tax 
                               Excise Taxes 
                               Federal Income Tax 
                               Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA) 
                               Fishing License Tax 
                               Food License Tax 
                               Fuel Permit Tax 
                               Gasoline Tax (currently 44.75 cents per gallon) 
                               Gross Receipts Tax 
                               Hunting License Tax 
                               Inheritance Tax 
                               Inventory Tax 
                               IRS Interest Charges         IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax) 
                               Liquor Tax 
                               Luxury Taxes 
                               Marriage License Tax 
                               Medicare Tax 
                               Personal Property Tax 
                               Property Tax 
                               Real Estate Tax 
                               Service Charge Tax 
                               Social Security Tax 
                               Road Usage Tax 
                               Recreational Vehicle Tax 
                               Sales Tax 
                               School Tax 
                               State Income Tax 
                               State Unemployment Tax (SUTA) 
                               Telephone Federal Excise Tax 
                               Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax 
                               Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes 
                               Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax 
                               Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax 
                               Telephone State and Local Tax 
                               Telephone Usage Charge Tax 
                               Utility Taxes 
                               Vehicle License Registration Tax 
                               Vehicle Sales Tax 
                               Watercraft Registration Tax 
                               Well Permit Tax 
                               Workers Compensation Tax 


STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY? 
Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, & our nation was the most prosperous in the world. 
We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids. 

What in the heck happened?  Can you spell 'politicians?' 

I hope this goes around THE USA at least 545 times!!!  YOU can help it get there!!! 

                                         GO AHEAD. . .  BE AN AMERICAN!!!


----------



## Ravi

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 'We' don't, idiots do. I don't think you blame everything on blacks, mexicans, or gays. Maybe you do blame conservatives though.
> 
> I don't 'blame' liberals. I blame liberal policies - huge difference. I think we need to try and differentiate between individuals and policies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tar baby thread all over again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yea, I think you're right. No disrespect intended - cuz you know I love ya - but I think I tend to intellectualize my arguments more than many people on this forum. This is why I rarely debate on this board. I have an intellectual approach which doesn't really fit on this board.
Click to expand...

There's nothing intellectual about the knee-jerk blame game.


----------



## Ravi

sparky said:


> and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.


There it is.


----------



## eots

[
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn_8CKu9toc]&#x202a;The Clash - London&#39;s Burning&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tar baby thread all over again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, I think you're right. No disrespect intended - cuz you know I love ya - but I think I tend to intellectualize my arguments more than many people on this forum. This is why I rarely debate on this board. I have an intellectual approach which doesn't really fit on this board.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There's nothing intellectual about the knee-jerk blame game.
Click to expand...


It's not 'knee jerk' nor is it a 'blame game', it is simply my opinion, based on the evidence. We have a generation of kids in certain areas of the country (the UK in this instance, and mostly - apparently - in inner city environments) who clearly have no respect for society, property, people, or anything else. Why? What makes kids in certain areas act like this? Having spent quite some time working with academics - across a variety of social science issues, including education and economics - my view is that this is the result of decades of government policies. For decades the UK government has been what Americans would call 'liberal', that includes their Conservative party - which is more 'blue dog dem' than 'republican'. For decades, the British have implemented policies that - while they look good on paper - the actual impact has been incredibly harmful to individuals. Generational welfare - in certain areas - is common place. These kids have no role models to emulate. They come from families where no one has worked - for generation after generation. Their every need is met by others. Their rent is paid, their goods and services are paid, their vacations are paid, they earn nothing. That is not good for anyone. Living off other people breeds a lack of respect for anything. Therefore, they see no problem in destroying things. Because someone will replace it for them. 

This is the result of that.


----------



## eots

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lotkzHsIuoA]&#x202a;The Clash - London Calling + lyrics&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## California Girl

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hamKl-su8PE]&#x202a;Kaiser Chiefs - I Predict A Riot&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## ekrem

British youngsters don't like fruits & vegetables


----------



## California Girl

Colin said:


> Seems that many of the rioters and looters are kids as young as seven! That being the case, the parents of those arrested who are under 16 should be arrested and charged as well!



Personally, I'd have each and every one of them paying for the damage their little brats have caused.


----------



## Douger

Blagger said:


> Rioting is rapidly spreading across Britain's capital. There are cars being torched and overturned within sight of our balcony. It's getting worse by the day. Supermarkets are all closing to avoid being targetted by looters. And I'll echo the comment pages of all the major British news outlets: the majority of the rioter/looters/scum are ethnic minorities. The police's hands are largely tied because their boots are cemented in political correctness (blimey, that almost read like an emergency distress signal).
> 
> I'm the only gun owner in the building, for what precious little my ancient BSA 12-bore will do. Still, stiff upper lip an' all that.


You inbred fuckers need to spot the right targets. If you're gonna " get down" start at Fuckingham "palace". Instead you monkeys set cars on fire and loot liquor stores. Brilliant.


----------



## editec

Blagger said:


>


 
Looks to me like the Anglos have had about all they can take of the UK's BIG BROTHER police state.


Perhaps we ought to call this the *ENGLISH spring.*

​


----------



## California Girl

Well, this is heartwarming. Local people are coming out with brooms and garbage bags to clean up their neighborhoods.... and, they are applauding the police.


----------



## Ravi

Colin said:


> Seems that many of the rioters and looters are kids as young as seven! That being the case, the parents of those arrested who are under 16 should be arrested and charged as well!


Damn those liberals letting their kids riot!

Heck, most liberals won't even let their kids walk to the store until they are eighteen.


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seems that many of the rioters and looters are kids as young as seven! That being the case, the parents of those arrested who are under 16 should be arrested and charged as well!
> 
> 
> 
> Damn those liberals letting their kids riot!
> 
> Heck, most liberals won't even let their kids walk to the store until they are eighteen.
Click to expand...


Again, their parents are not necessarily 'liberals'.... I suspect that most of their parents couldn't tell you who the Prime Minister is. They are - probably - completely disengaged in the political system. It's not about liberals, Ravi... it is about the result of liberal policies. Please try and learn the difference.


----------



## Colin

Ravi said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seems that many of the rioters and looters are kids as young as seven! That being the case, the parents of those arrested who are under 16 should be arrested and charged as well!
> 
> 
> 
> Damn those liberals letting their kids riot!
> 
> Heck, most liberals won't even let their kids walk to the store until they are eighteen.
Click to expand...


Lol! Are you putting words in my mouth Ravi? Must be since I've never said any such thing! My word, your sensitivity is showing like a pair of red flannel knickers!


----------



## alexa

Gangs have been growing for years and I have seen kids saying they do not want to be in them but if they are not, then they live in fear.  I have heard kids saying they make sure their parents do not know.  I have seen programs on parents desperately trying to prevent their children from being involved in gangs and I have seen in the news and on other programs the tragic loss of our youth through murder.

This is what needs to be resolved.  The kids joining the gangs are getting younger and younger.  A lot of this is kids going after a new pair of shoes.  No one who saw any hope for their future would engage in such activity.

Regardless of the criminality of those on the rampage, if we do not want to see such things repeating themselves we need to look a bit more at the genuine situation underneath it.



> The cutting of youth services in the area is not an excuse to go out and loot shops. However, the younger teenagers drawn into gang activity and petty crime or looting do so in deprived areas of the inner city. Without jobs, any social or educational aspiration, the youth services were a means to distract them. Youth offenders who try to turn their back on a life on the streets are constantly hampered by prospective employers doing CRB checks. An offence can dog them for years. It is only the London mayor's scheme that seeks to employ young people regardless of their previous offending. These young people do not feel part of a society. "When the city is on fire the prime minister and mayor don't even come back from holiday," my source told me. "It just shows they don't care about us."
> 
> Before the cuts squeezed youth services, there was evidence of hope provided by social enterprise and youth-based initiatives. In deprived areas with deteriorating high-density social housing, troubled young men no longer needed to eek out a sense of identity in violent life on the streets. Violence happens in deprived areas where domestic violence, family breakdown and addiction issues are also rife. Younger boys are intimidated by teenagers and men to join gangs. The media stereotypes groups of urban teenagers as feckless thugs. This judgment and distancing only exacerbates the problem. Media attempts to blame the Tottenham riots on a network of organised thugs is the latest way to distance ourselves from the problems of this community and our young people who desperately need a voice.



London riots are not the work of organised gangs | Gavin Knight | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk


----------



## Ravi

Colin said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seems that many of the rioters and looters are kids as young as seven! That being the case, the parents of those arrested who are under 16 should be arrested and charged as well!
> 
> 
> 
> Damn those liberals letting their kids riot!
> 
> Heck, most liberals won't even let their kids walk to the store until they are eighteen.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol! Are you putting words in my mouth Ravi? Must be since I've never said any such thing! My word, your sensitivity is showing like a pair of red flannel knickers!
Click to expand...

What do you have against knickers???


----------



## Colin

Ravi said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Damn those liberals letting their kids riot!
> 
> Heck, most liberals won't even let their kids walk to the store until they are eighteen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol! Are you putting words in my mouth Ravi? Must be since I've never said any such thing! My word, your sensitivity is showing like a pair of red flannel knickers!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you have against knickers???
Click to expand...


Everything! I always say DOWN WITH KNICKERS!


----------



## Ravi

alexa said:


> Gangs have been growing for years and I have seen kids saying they do not want to be in them but if they are not, then they live in fear.  I have heard kids saying they make sure their parents do not know.  I have seen programs on parents desperately trying to prevent their children from being involved in gangs and I have seen in the news and on other programs the tragic loss of our youth through murder.
> 
> This is what needs to be resolved.  The kids joining the gangs are getting younger and younger.  A lot of this is kids going after a new pair of shoes.  No one who saw any hope for their future would engage in such activity.
> 
> Regardless of the criminality of those on the rampage, if we do not want to see such things repeating themselves we need to look a bit more at the genuine situation underneath it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The cutting of youth services in the area is not an excuse to go out and loot shops. However, the younger teenagers drawn into gang activity and petty crime or looting do so in deprived areas of the inner city. Without jobs, any social or educational aspiration, the youth services were a means to distract them. Youth offenders who try to turn their back on a life on the streets are constantly hampered by prospective employers doing CRB checks. An offence can dog them for years. It is only the London mayor's scheme that seeks to employ young people regardless of their previous offending. These young people do not feel part of a society. "When the city is on fire the prime minister and mayor don't even come back from holiday," my source told me. "It just shows they don't care about us."
> 
> Before the cuts squeezed youth services, there was evidence of hope provided by social enterprise and youth-based initiatives. In deprived areas with deteriorating high-density social housing, troubled young men no longer needed to eek out a sense of identity in violent life on the streets. Violence happens in deprived areas where domestic violence, family breakdown and addiction issues are also rife. Younger boys are intimidated by teenagers and men to join gangs. The media stereotypes groups of urban teenagers as feckless thugs. This judgment and distancing only exacerbates the problem. Media attempts to blame the Tottenham riots on a network of organised thugs is the latest way to distance ourselves from the problems of this community and our young people who desperately need a voice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> London riots are not the work of organised gangs | Gavin Knight | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
Click to expand...


I think the biggest problem is these people just don't have anything to occupy their time. While some will blame that on liberalism, in reality it is more the fault of technology and living in the city. But you can't really blame thuggish behavior on anything other than the thugs.


----------



## alexa

Ravi said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gangs have been growing for years and I have seen kids saying they do not want to be in them but if they are not, then they live in fear.  I have heard kids saying they make sure their parents do not know.  I have seen programs on parents desperately trying to prevent their children from being involved in gangs and I have seen in the news and on other programs the tragic loss of our youth through murder.
> 
> This is what needs to be resolved.  The kids joining the gangs are getting younger and younger.  A lot of this is kids going after a new pair of shoes.  No one who saw any hope for their future would engage in such activity.
> 
> Regardless of the criminality of those on the rampage, if we do not want to see such things repeating themselves we need to look a bit more at the genuine situation underneath it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The cutting of youth services in the area is not an excuse to go out and loot shops. However, the younger teenagers drawn into gang activity and petty crime or looting do so in deprived areas of the inner city. Without jobs, any social or educational aspiration, the youth services were a means to distract them. Youth offenders who try to turn their back on a life on the streets are constantly hampered by prospective employers doing CRB checks. An offence can dog them for years. It is only the London mayor's scheme that seeks to employ young people regardless of their previous offending. These young people do not feel part of a society. "When the city is on fire the prime minister and mayor don't even come back from holiday," my source told me. "It just shows they don't care about us."
> 
> Before the cuts squeezed youth services, there was evidence of hope provided by social enterprise and youth-based initiatives. In deprived areas with deteriorating high-density social housing, troubled young men no longer needed to eek out a sense of identity in violent life on the streets. Violence happens in deprived areas where domestic violence, family breakdown and addiction issues are also rife. Younger boys are intimidated by teenagers and men to join gangs. The media stereotypes groups of urban teenagers as feckless thugs. This judgment and distancing only exacerbates the problem. Media attempts to blame the Tottenham riots on a network of organised thugs is the latest way to distance ourselves from the problems of this community and our young people who desperately need a voice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> London riots are not the work of organised gangs | Gavin Knight | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think the biggest problem is these people just don't have anything to occupy their time. While some will blame that on liberalism, in reality it is more the fault of technology and living in the city. But you can't really blame thuggish behavior on anything other than the thugs.
Click to expand...


The behaviour maybe but the response must come from somewhere else.


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gangs have been growing for years and I have seen kids saying they do not want to be in them but if they are not, then they live in fear.  I have heard kids saying they make sure their parents do not know.  I have seen programs on parents desperately trying to prevent their children from being involved in gangs and I have seen in the news and on other programs the tragic loss of our youth through murder.
> 
> This is what needs to be resolved.  The kids joining the gangs are getting younger and younger.  A lot of this is kids going after a new pair of shoes.  No one who saw any hope for their future would engage in such activity.
> 
> Regardless of the criminality of those on the rampage, if we do not want to see such things repeating themselves we need to look a bit more at the genuine situation underneath it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The cutting of youth services in the area is not an excuse to go out and loot shops. However, the younger teenagers drawn into gang activity and petty crime or looting do so in deprived areas of the inner city. Without jobs, any social or educational aspiration, the youth services were a means to distract them. Youth offenders who try to turn their back on a life on the streets are constantly hampered by prospective employers doing CRB checks. An offence can dog them for years. It is only the London mayor's scheme that seeks to employ young people regardless of their previous offending. These young people do not feel part of a society. "When the city is on fire the prime minister and mayor don't even come back from holiday," my source told me. "It just shows they don't care about us."
> 
> Before the cuts squeezed youth services, there was evidence of hope provided by social enterprise and youth-based initiatives. In deprived areas with deteriorating high-density social housing, troubled young men no longer needed to eek out a sense of identity in violent life on the streets. Violence happens in deprived areas where domestic violence, family breakdown and addiction issues are also rife. Younger boys are intimidated by teenagers and men to join gangs. The media stereotypes groups of urban teenagers as feckless thugs. This judgment and distancing only exacerbates the problem. Media attempts to blame the Tottenham riots on a network of organised thugs is the latest way to distance ourselves from the problems of this community and our young people who desperately need a voice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> London riots are not the work of organised gangs | Gavin Knight | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think the biggest problem is these people just don't have anything to occupy their time. While some will blame that on liberalism, in reality it is more the fault of technology and living in the city. But you can't really blame thuggish behavior on anything other than the thugs.
Click to expand...


Good point. And it is one I tried to make earlier. These kids are no way able to further their education - they have no ability or the inclination to go to university. There are not enough apprenticeships and vocational programs to get them ready for work. Most of them come from families where no one has worked, their parents (and that's if they're lucky enough to have a two parent family), their grandparents.... no one works. They get everything handed to them. Now, if you never have to earn anything - and every time you break something, someone just replaces it for you.... how the hell do you ever learn the value of things? That's not about their parents being 'liberal', it is the result of liberal policies.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

Ravi said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gangs have been growing for years and I have seen kids saying they do not want to be in them but if they are not, then they live in fear.  I have heard kids saying they make sure their parents do not know.  I have seen programs on parents desperately trying to prevent their children from being involved in gangs and I have seen in the news and on other programs the tragic loss of our youth through murder.
> 
> This is what needs to be resolved.  The kids joining the gangs are getting younger and younger.  A lot of this is kids going after a new pair of shoes.  No one who saw any hope for their future would engage in such activity.
> 
> Regardless of the criminality of those on the rampage, if we do not want to see such things repeating themselves we need to look a bit more at the genuine situation underneath it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The cutting of youth services in the area is not an excuse to go out and loot shops. However, the younger teenagers drawn into gang activity and petty crime or looting do so in deprived areas of the inner city. Without jobs, any social or educational aspiration, the youth services were a means to distract them. Youth offenders who try to turn their back on a life on the streets are constantly hampered by prospective employers doing CRB checks. An offence can dog them for years. It is only the London mayor's scheme that seeks to employ young people regardless of their previous offending. These young people do not feel part of a society. "When the city is on fire the prime minister and mayor don't even come back from holiday," my source told me. "It just shows they don't care about us."
> 
> Before the cuts squeezed youth services, there was evidence of hope provided by social enterprise and youth-based initiatives. In deprived areas with deteriorating high-density social housing, troubled young men no longer needed to eek out a sense of identity in violent life on the streets. Violence happens in deprived areas where domestic violence, family breakdown and addiction issues are also rife. Younger boys are intimidated by teenagers and men to join gangs. The media stereotypes groups of urban teenagers as feckless thugs. This judgment and distancing only exacerbates the problem. Media attempts to blame the Tottenham riots on a network of organised thugs is the latest way to distance ourselves from the problems of this community and our young people who desperately need a voice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> London riots are not the work of organised gangs | Gavin Knight | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think the biggest problem is these people just don't have anything to occupy their time. While some will blame that on liberalism, in reality it is more the fault of technology and living in the city. But you can't really blame thuggish behavior on anything other than the thugs.
Click to expand...


And that is why you are a brain dead dumb ass. When you give someone everything they need to live and creature comforts for GENERATIONS you breed disrespect for ownership. They are given everything they need to live and do not work and have no one in their family that has worked. They get some comforts given to them also. 

They want more so they take it. They have no reason to not expect for what ever they destroy to be rebuilt. They are given it for free and have been for generations.


----------



## alexa

What happens in gang areas in the US


----------



## California Girl

Oops. I just checked my diary. I'm supposed to be going for dinner in Bristol tonight.... right in the area where the riot was last night. Hmmmm. Do I go or not?


----------



## alexa

RetiredGySgt said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gangs have been growing for years and I have seen kids saying they do not want to be in them but if they are not, then they live in fear.  I have heard kids saying they make sure their parents do not know.  I have seen programs on parents desperately trying to prevent their children from being involved in gangs and I have seen in the news and on other programs the tragic loss of our youth through murder.
> 
> This is what needs to be resolved.  The kids joining the gangs are getting younger and younger.  A lot of this is kids going after a new pair of shoes.  No one who saw any hope for their future would engage in such activity.
> 
> Regardless of the criminality of those on the rampage, if we do not want to see such things repeating themselves we need to look a bit more at the genuine situation underneath it.
> 
> 
> 
> London riots are not the work of organised gangs | Gavin Knight | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the biggest problem is these people just don't have anything to occupy their time. While some will blame that on liberalism, in reality it is more the fault of technology and living in the city. But you can't really blame thuggish behavior on anything other than the thugs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And that is why you are a brain dead dumb ass. When you give someone everything they need to live and creature comforts for GENERATIONS you breed disrespect for ownership. They are given everything they need to live and do not work and have no one in their family that has worked. They get some comforts given to them also.
> 
> They want more so they take it. They have no reason to not expect for what ever they destroy to be rebuilt. They are given it for free and have been for generations.
Click to expand...


They actually have very little of what most people take for granted.  Safety and security and the peace and support to have a childhood and gain an education motivated by the prospect of a good adult life.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

alexa said:


> What happens in gang areas in the US



Crime. And occasionally riots like you are seeing.


----------



## Ravi

RetiredGySgt said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gangs have been growing for years and I have seen kids saying they do not want to be in them but if they are not, then they live in fear.  I have heard kids saying they make sure their parents do not know.  I have seen programs on parents desperately trying to prevent their children from being involved in gangs and I have seen in the news and on other programs the tragic loss of our youth through murder.
> 
> This is what needs to be resolved.  The kids joining the gangs are getting younger and younger.  A lot of this is kids going after a new pair of shoes.  No one who saw any hope for their future would engage in such activity.
> 
> Regardless of the criminality of those on the rampage, if we do not want to see such things repeating themselves we need to look a bit more at the genuine situation underneath it.
> 
> 
> 
> London riots are not the work of organised gangs | Gavin Knight | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the biggest problem is these people just don't have anything to occupy their time. While some will blame that on liberalism, in reality it is more the fault of technology and living in the city. But you can't really blame thuggish behavior on anything other than the thugs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And that is why you are a brain dead dumb ass. When you give someone everything they need to live and creature comforts for GENERATIONS you breed disrespect for ownership. They are given everything they need to live and do not work and have no one in their family that has worked. They get some comforts given to them also.
> 
> They want more so they take it. They have no reason to not expect for what ever they destroy to be rebuilt. They are given it for free and have been for generations.
Click to expand...

 Except the cons took away the programs that kept them off the street.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

Ravi said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the biggest problem is these people just don't have anything to occupy their time. While some will blame that on liberalism, in reality it is more the fault of technology and living in the city. But you can't really blame thuggish behavior on anything other than the thugs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that is why you are a brain dead dumb ass. When you give someone everything they need to live and creature comforts for GENERATIONS you breed disrespect for ownership. They are given everything they need to live and do not work and have no one in their family that has worked. They get some comforts given to them also.
> 
> They want more so they take it. They have no reason to not expect for what ever they destroy to be rebuilt. They are given it for free and have been for generations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Except the cons took away the programs that kept them off the street.
Click to expand...


There are no Conservatives in England. Every politician is left of center. Their cons are just less left of center.


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the biggest problem is these people just don't have anything to occupy their time. While some will blame that on liberalism, in reality it is more the fault of technology and living in the city. But you can't really blame thuggish behavior on anything other than the thugs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that is why you are a brain dead dumb ass. When you give someone everything they need to live and creature comforts for GENERATIONS you breed disrespect for ownership. They are given everything they need to live and do not work and have no one in their family that has worked. They get some comforts given to them also.
> 
> They want more so they take it. They have no reason to not expect for what ever they destroy to be rebuilt. They are given it for free and have been for generations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Except the cons took away the programs that kept them off the street.
Click to expand...


Those 'cons' have managed to keep Britain's AAA rating.  And, they didn't 'take away the programs that kept them off the streets'. That happened under Labour.


----------



## California Girl

RetiredGySgt said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> And that is why you are a brain dead dumb ass. When you give someone everything they need to live and creature comforts for GENERATIONS you breed disrespect for ownership. They are given everything they need to live and do not work and have no one in their family that has worked. They get some comforts given to them also.
> 
> They want more so they take it. They have no reason to not expect for what ever they destroy to be rebuilt. They are given it for free and have been for generations.
> 
> 
> 
> Except the cons took away the programs that kept them off the street.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are no Conservatives in England. Every politician is left of center. Their cons are just less left of center.
Click to expand...


I already tried to explain that. Ravi confuses words with facts. Fact: British Conservatives are more akin to Blue Dog Dems than Republicans or US Conservatives.... but that is too inconvenient for her. It doesn't fit her opinions.


----------



## alexa

RetiredGySgt said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> What happens in gang areas in the US
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crime. And occasionally riots like you are seeing.
Click to expand...


Then would you agree that a way forward would be dealing with these gangs and replacing their influence with positive role models and structures so that they can see the possibility of reaching adulthood and getting a good job and their own home, rather than being on the dross pile trying to show their worth and make their money through crime.


----------



## Ravi

RetiredGySgt said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> And that is why you are a brain dead dumb ass. When you give someone everything they need to live and creature comforts for GENERATIONS you breed disrespect for ownership. They are given everything they need to live and do not work and have no one in their family that has worked. They get some comforts given to them also.
> 
> They want more so they take it. They have no reason to not expect for what ever they destroy to be rebuilt. They are given it for free and have been for generations.
> 
> 
> 
> Except the cons took away the programs that kept them off the street.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are no Conservatives in England. Every politician is left of center. Their cons are just less left of center.
Click to expand...

Oh, of course. The cons were defeated by creeping liberalism.


----------



## alexa

California Girl said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Except the cons took away the programs that kept them off the street.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are no Conservatives in England. Every politician is left of center. Their cons are just less left of center.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I already tried to explain that. Ravi confuses words with facts. Fact: British Conservatives are more akin to Blue Dog Dems than Republicans or US Conservatives.... but that is too inconvenient for her. It doesn't fit her opinions.
Click to expand...


Regardless of that Labour has spun to the right in the last 17-20 years.  In that way it no longer provides support to it's old base.


----------



## editec

What I think some of us do not understand is that this kind of spontaneous lawlessness is ALSO an example of the INVISIBLE HAND OF THE MARKET.

Now I can already hear some of you thinking:

_"But editec, rioting and anarchy doesn't have anything to do with market forces!"_​ 

Are you sure about that? I mean are you_ really convinced_ of that?​ 
Okay let me ask you this:​ 
How many kids currently rioting and looting do you suppose feel like their society gives a rat's ass about them? How many of those kids have HOPES that they too can be part of their society and have a job that gives them a SHOT at having a decent life?​ 
You see, kids, there is a price for that _I GOT MINE, GET YOURS_ indifference that is part and parcel of the economic system that we and England have.

Oh I know there are elements of liberalism in England. I fully understand that England has a WELFARE STATE (and a police state, too)  that makes ours look niggardly by comparison.​ 
But that WELFARE system isn't a system designed to get people out of welfare.​ 
That system is merely a system to keep events like these from happening, or if they must happen, that they won't happen _in the neighborhoods of the people that matter._​ 
Well that kind of LIMO LIBERALISM just doesn't work for very long.​ 
People need REAL OPPORTUNITY, not the fake kind that our social systems offer them.​ 
And while most people WILL go gently into the dark night of economic destruction that is DESTINED for them...​ 
*SOME YOUNG PEOPLE, THOSE WITH NO HOPE WILL NOT accept their roles as THROWAWAY people.*​ 
We see this kind of reaction in the gangs of the USA, and apparently ENGLAND is now seeing it on their streets, too.​ 
People are becoming REDUNDANT, folks. Our own economic system INSURES that that is happening to billions of human beings around the planet.​ 
Economic forces are disenfranchising so many people, now, that what we are currently seeing is almost inevitable​ 
People, especially disenfranchised young people, will NOT go gently into the social darwinism nightmare, folks.​ 

*The disenfranchised won't form revolutionary cells, they won't riot under red flags, they won't have leaders, they won't issue manfestos, they will just become CRIMINALS.*​


----------



## Ernie S.

Colin said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wake up white people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People like YOU are part of the problem, not the solution, you worthless piece of detritis!
Click to expand...


Got video surveillance  of Tank burning down buildings? Don't be ridiculous. The only people to blame are the worthless pieces of shit who were involved and those that make excuses for them.


----------



## Colin

RetiredGySgt said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> And that is why you are a brain dead dumb ass. When you give someone everything they need to live and creature comforts for GENERATIONS you breed disrespect for ownership. They are given everything they need to live and do not work and have no one in their family that has worked. They get some comforts given to them also.
> 
> They want more so they take it. They have no reason to not expect for what ever they destroy to be rebuilt. They are given it for free and have been for generations.
> 
> 
> 
> Except the cons took away the programs that kept them off the street.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are no Conservatives in England. Every politician is left of center. Their cons are just less left of center.
Click to expand...


Nah. Our cons just ain't as extremist as you neocons. But hey, carry on. It's quite amusing watching you demonstrate just how ignorant you are of so much outside of your particular parochial little bubble.


----------



## California Girl

Colin said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Except the cons took away the programs that kept them off the street.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are no Conservatives in England. Every politician is left of center. Their cons are just less left of center.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah. Our cons just ain't as extremist as you neocons. But hey, carry on. It's quite amusing watching you demonstrate just how ignorant you are of so much outside of your particular parochial little bubble.
Click to expand...


This is an example of two nations divided by a common language. The words mean different things to Americans and Brits.


----------



## Toro

California Girl said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Except the cons took away the programs that kept them off the street.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are no Conservatives in England. Every politician is left of center. Their cons are just less left of center.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I already tried to explain that. Ravi confuses words with facts. Fact: British Conservatives are more akin to Blue Dog Dems than Republicans or US Conservatives.... but that is too inconvenient for her. It doesn't fit her opinions.
Click to expand...


It's the American right that is waaaaaaay to the right on the global political spectrum. Maggie Thatcher is my political hero. Michelle Bachmann?  Not so much.

OTOH I'm pretty sure that if I lived in San Francisco instead, I'd be a diehard Republican.


----------



## Colin

Ernie S. said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wake up white people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People like YOU are part of the problem, not the solution, you worthless piece of detritis!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Got video surveillance  of Tank burning down buildings? Don't be ridiculous. The only people to blame are the worthless pieces of shit who were involved and those that make excuses for them.
Click to expand...


Strange. I didn't have you down as a supporter of racism!


----------



## Ravi

California Girl said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are no Conservatives in England. Every politician is left of center. Their cons are just less left of center.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nah. Our cons just ain't as extremist as you neocons. But hey, carry on. It's quite amusing watching you demonstrate just how ignorant you are of so much outside of your particular parochial little bubble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is an example of two nations divided by a common language. The words mean different things to Americans and Brits.
Click to expand...

 First you say there are no cons and then you say there are.


----------



## Ravi

Toro said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are no Conservatives in England. Every politician is left of center. Their cons are just less left of center.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I already tried to explain that. Ravi confuses words with facts. Fact: British Conservatives are more akin to Blue Dog Dems than Republicans or US Conservatives.... but that is too inconvenient for her. It doesn't fit her opinions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's the American right that is waaaaaaay to the right on the global political spectrum. Maggie Thatcher is my political hero. Michelle Bachmann?  Not so much.
> 
> OTOH I'm pretty sure that if I lived in San Francisco instead, I'd be a diehard Republican.
Click to expand...


Exactly. I think the British cons are more "real" conservatives than the American pretenders to conservatism.


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nah. Our cons just ain't as extremist as you neocons. But hey, carry on. It's quite amusing watching you demonstrate just how ignorant you are of so much outside of your particular parochial little bubble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is an example of two nations divided by a common language. The words mean different things to Americans and Brits.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> First you say there are no cons and then you say there are.
Click to expand...


No Ravi, I said that UK Conservatives are not like US Conservatives. It's complicated, I know, but try to keep up. One word - different meaning.


----------



## Ernie S.

California Girl said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> anarchy is not and never has been the result of liberal thinking or of political parties...anarchist stand alone with few goals or ambitions other than fucking up the system....you will find that on both sides of the spectrum.....
> 
> anarchy cannot be tolerated....the whole goal of anarchist is simple destruction
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With respect (and I really do mean that), I disagree. It is very much the result of decades of overly lenient attitudes towards standards of behavior. These kids need discipline. And they do not get it... not at home, not in school, not by society. This is the result of that. And those attitudes - they are liberal attitudes. These are Labour policies in action. Conservatives in the UK have always been the 'law and order' party.
Click to expand...


A+, CG! I tend to blame the majority of the ills of society on Dr. Benjamin Spock.
Rather than Spock, if parents consulted the King James version, they would see:
Proverbs 13:24
    He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I already tried to explain that. Ravi confuses words with facts. Fact: British Conservatives are more akin to Blue Dog Dems than Republicans or US Conservatives.... but that is too inconvenient for her. It doesn't fit her opinions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the American right that is waaaaaaay to the right on the global political spectrum. Maggie Thatcher is my political hero. Michelle Bachmann?  Not so much.
> 
> OTOH I'm pretty sure that if I lived in San Francisco instead, I'd be a diehard Republican.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly. I think the British cons are more "real" conservatives than the American pretenders to conservatism.
Click to expand...


Since you clearly do not understand what 'conservative' means in the UK, I doubt you're opinion is of much real value. I, on the other hand, have a decent understanding of both. And both are 'real'.... in that they are what each country understands by the word. You're making yourself look silly now.


----------



## Toro

Ravi said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I already tried to explain that. Ravi confuses words with facts. Fact: British Conservatives are more akin to Blue Dog Dems than Republicans or US Conservatives.... but that is too inconvenient for her. It doesn't fit her opinions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the American right that is waaaaaaay to the right on the global political spectrum. Maggie Thatcher is my political hero. Michelle Bachmann?  Not so much.
> 
> OTOH I'm pretty sure that if I lived in San Francisco instead, I'd be a diehard Republican.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly. I think the British cons are more "real" conservatives than the American pretenders to conservatism.
Click to expand...


The two big differences that I see in American conservatism that I don't see elsewhere are the influence of evangelicals and this religious belief that tax cuts are the cure for all our economic problems, including deficits.


----------



## Two Thumbs

Late to the party.

Why are they rioting?

Who is it?  [it can't just be black people]


Blagger;

Keep your head down and your weapons ready.


----------



## Ravi

Toro said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's the American right that is waaaaaaay to the right on the global political spectrum. Maggie Thatcher is my political hero. Michelle Bachmann?  Not so much.
> 
> OTOH I'm pretty sure that if I lived in San Francisco instead, I'd be a diehard Republican.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. I think the British cons are more "real" conservatives than the American pretenders to conservatism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The two big differences that I see in American conservatism that I don't see elsewhere are the influence of evangelicals and this religious belief that tax cuts are the cure for all our economic problems, including deficits.
Click to expand...

Yep. That and the cons never ending battle to let their morals trump everyone's civil rights. I suspect that is not the case in GB, but I could be wrong.


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. I think the British cons are more "real" conservatives than the American pretenders to conservatism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The two big differences that I see in American conservatism that I don't see elsewhere are the influence of evangelicals and this religious belief that tax cuts are the cure for all our economic problems, including deficits.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep. That and the cons never ending battle to let their morals trump everyone's civil rights. I suspect that is not the case in GB, but I could be wrong.
Click to expand...


You're not wrong about that.... and.... this may shock you.... I intensely dislike the influence of the religious right in US Conservativism. We (US Conservatives) would be better to argue on policy. If one accepts Conservative values - those values include accepting individual responsibility - that means accepting other people's faith - or the lack thereof.


----------



## Ravi

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> The two big differences that I see in American conservatism that I don't see elsewhere are the influence of evangelicals and this religious belief that tax cuts are the cure for all our economic problems, including deficits.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep. That and the cons never ending battle to let their morals trump everyone's civil rights. I suspect that is not the case in GB, but I could be wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're not wrong about that.... and.... this may shock you.... I intensely dislike the influence of the religious right in US Conservativism. We (US Conservatives) would be better to argue on policy. If one accepts Conservative values - those values include accepting individual responsibility - that means accepting other people's faith - or the lack thereof.
Click to expand...

Thanks for admitting that I understand the conservative viewpoint in the UK.


----------



## California Girl

Two Thumbs said:


> Late to the party.
> 
> Why are they rioting?
> 
> Who is it?  [it can't just be black people]
> 
> 
> Blagger;
> 
> Keep your head down and your weapons ready.



The youth are rioting - not really race based. No idea why.... the Brit media referred to it as 'recreational rioting' in that there is no real cause, they're just fucking thugs.


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep. That and the cons never ending battle to let their morals trump everyone's civil rights. I suspect that is not the case in GB, but I could be wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're not wrong about that.... and.... this may shock you.... I intensely dislike the influence of the religious right in US Conservativism. We (US Conservatives) would be better to argue on policy. If one accepts Conservative values - those values include accepting individual responsibility - that means accepting other people's faith - or the lack thereof.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for admitting that I understand the conservative viewpoint in the UK.
Click to expand...


I'm not sure that you do.... since you seem to misunderstand the difference between US and UK conservatives... and seem to assume that the UK Conservatives are as 'evil' as you think US Conservatives are. That's a basic lack of understanding right there. But you are right that the UK has much less religious influence than the US. They are a heathen bunch in the UK.*

*Disclaimer: that's a joke.


----------



## Ernie S.

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seems that many of the rioters and looters are kids as young as seven! That being the case, the parents of those arrested who are under 16 should be arrested and charged as well!
> 
> 
> 
> Damn those liberals letting their kids riot!
> 
> Heck, most liberals won't even let their kids walk to the store until they are eighteen.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, their parents are not necessarily 'liberals'.... I suspect that most of their parents couldn't tell you who the Prime Minister is. They are - probably - completely disengaged in the political system. It's not about liberals, Ravi... it is about the result of liberal policies. Please try and learn the difference.
Click to expand...

Must spread..... Absolutely right! Had these kids been taught a work ethic in stead of entitlement, had they been spanked when they broke the rules when they were 5, had they been taught how great their country is, in stead of how much their country owes them, there would be no rioting.


----------



## Two Thumbs

California Girl said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Late to the party.
> 
> Why are they rioting?
> 
> Who is it?  [it can't just be black people]
> 
> 
> Blagger;
> 
> Keep your head down and your weapons ready.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The youth are rioting - not really race based. No idea why.... the Brit media referred to it as 'recreational rioting' in that there is no real cause, they're just fucking thugs.
Click to expand...


So they are bored and just want to steal things they don't have and destroy whatever else comes along.

That's a far cry from tipping cows and smashing mail boxes.


----------



## California Girl

Ernie S. said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Damn those liberals letting their kids riot!
> 
> Heck, most liberals won't even let their kids walk to the store until they are eighteen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, their parents are not necessarily 'liberals'.... I suspect that most of their parents couldn't tell you who the Prime Minister is. They are - probably - completely disengaged in the political system. It's not about liberals, Ravi... it is about the result of liberal policies. Please try and learn the difference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Must spread..... Absolutely right! Had these kids been taught a work ethic in stead of entitlement, had they been spanked when they broke the rules when they were 5, had they been taught how great their country is, in stead of how much their country owes them, there would be no rioting.
Click to expand...


Now, that's another interesting thing about the UK. They seem to have very little pride in their country, despite their impressive history, they seem embarrassed by it. I find that odd.


----------



## Ernie S.

California Girl said:


> Oops. I just checked my diary. I'm supposed to be going for dinner in Bristol tonight.... right in the area where the riot was last night. Hmmmm. Do I go or not?


If you were in the States, I'd say yes, but go armed. Where you are, nope!


----------



## syrenn

California Girl said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rat in the Hat said:
> 
> 
> 
> BBC reported that 2 of the punks stopped to beat up a witness and try to take his camera, and were caught by the cops.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Caught is not brunt to death.... to bad....
> 
> 
> but i am glad they were caught.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 450 of the little thugs have been arrested so far.
> 
> The cold light of day shows the amount of damage - it's pretty horrific. Whole rows of stores and homes have been completely destroyed. Thousands of ordinary hard working people - of a variety of ethnic backgrounds - are now homeless and have lost everything just because some little brats can't behave like civilized human beings.
> 
> If you ask me, everyone involved - including the families of these little thugs - should lose any kind of government assistance - permanently. Let them live on the fucking streets that they've destroyed.
Click to expand...



Sad. I am with you there.... they should forfeit any and all public assistance for life.


----------



## alexa

California Girl said:


> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, their parents are not necessarily 'liberals'.... I suspect that most of their parents couldn't tell you who the Prime Minister is. They are - probably - completely disengaged in the political system. It's not about liberals, Ravi... it is about the result of liberal policies. Please try and learn the difference.
> 
> 
> 
> Must spread..... Absolutely right! Had these kids been taught a work ethic in stead of entitlement, had they been spanked when they broke the rules when they were 5, had they been taught how great their country is, in stead of how much their country owes them, there would be no rioting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now, that's another interesting thing about the UK. They seem to have very little pride in their country, despite their impressive history, they seem embarrassed by it. I find that odd.
Click to expand...


I don't know where you live in the UK but people are very proud to come from where I live.


----------



## syrenn

ekrem said:


> First the University protests, now this.
> Instead of putting money into "nothing" (Lybia) maybe the Brits should re-route some of that money into the more important things, I mean the money they take as credit.




yeah... like deporting.


----------



## Ernie S.

alexa said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> What happens in gang areas in the US
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crime. And occasionally riots like you are seeing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then would you agree that a way forward would be dealing with these gangs and replacing their influence with positive role models and structures so that they can see the possibility of reaching adulthood and getting a good job and their own home, rather than being on the dross pile trying to show their worth and make their money through crime.
Click to expand...


So now it's government's responsibility to provide role models? It's an individual choice to adopt a role model These kids have the *choice* of emulating productive, inspiring people, or thugs. They have *chosen* thugs


----------



## syrenn

ekrem said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deport anyone who was involved who isn't a British citizen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe Prince Harry will wear his costume from 2005 whilst they're being deported.
Click to expand...


As far as i know.... prince harry is a citizen.


----------



## California Girl

syrenn said:


> ekrem said:
> 
> 
> 
> First the University protests, now this.
> Instead of putting money into "nothing" (Lybia) maybe the Brits should re-route some of that money into the more important things, I mean the money they take as credit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah... like deporting.
Click to expand...


Most of the rioters are not immigrants, Sy. They are British. Deport them to where? Fortunately, the government appears to be quite hard on rioters. Those arrested during the student riots got prison time.... and not just a month or two.  Over 500 were arrested last night. I hope they come down as hard on them.


----------



## Truthmatters

.


----------



## California Girl

alexa said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Must spread..... Absolutely right! Had these kids been taught a work ethic in stead of entitlement, had they been spanked when they broke the rules when they were 5, had they been taught how great their country is, in stead of how much their country owes them, there would be no rioting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, that's another interesting thing about the UK. They seem to have very little pride in their country, despite their impressive history, they seem embarrassed by it. I find that odd.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know where you live in the UK but people are very proud to come from where I live.
Click to expand...


As an individual, you may be. But generally, there is no real pride in your nation. And I think that's sad.... it has an exceptional history. I'm not 'proud' of England - but I respect it. Pity that the English don't seem to.


----------



## alexa

Ernie S. said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Crime. And occasionally riots like you are seeing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then would you agree that a way forward would be dealing with these gangs and replacing their influence with positive role models and structures so that they can see the possibility of reaching adulthood and getting a good job and their own home, rather than being on the dross pile trying to show their worth and make their money through crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So now it's government's responsibility to provide role models? It's an individual choice to adopt a role model These kids have the *choice* of emulating productive, inspiring people, or thugs. They have *chosen* thugs
Click to expand...


That would only be true if we were all born into roughly the same environment with the roughly the same opportunities.  Modern societies do not provide that. 

You are showing very little knowledge of these areas.


----------



## Ravi

alexa said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Must spread..... Absolutely right! Had these kids been taught a work ethic in stead of entitlement, had they been spanked when they broke the rules when they were 5, had they been taught how great their country is, in stead of how much their country owes them, there would be no rioting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, that's another interesting thing about the UK. They seem to have very little pride in their country, despite their impressive history, they seem embarrassed by it. I find that odd.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know where you live in the UK but people are very proud to come from where I live.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've yet to meet a Brit that was embarrassed by their history or weren't proud to be Brits.

Most of them are insufferable like Swaggert.


----------



## alexa

Ravi said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now, that's another interesting thing about the UK. They seem to have very little pride in their country, despite their impressive history, they seem embarrassed by it. I find that odd.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know where you live in the UK but people are very proud to come from where I live.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, I've yet to meet a Brit that was embarrassed by their history or weren't proud to be Brits.
> 
> Most of them are insufferable like Swaggert.
Click to expand...


Don't take him seriously.


----------



## St.Blues

Colin said:


> This isn't racism. It's anarchy, mindless vandalism, sheer criminality and wilful violence. We are now seeing the results of bleeding heart liberalism. Those who destroyed discipline in this country and replaced it with political correctness.
> 
> ...and students who believe the world owes them a free ticket.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> London riots: From Hackney to Brixton Twitter and Blackberry help looters co-ordinate raids | Mail Online



Well put my Friend, well put!

Blues


----------



## alexa

California Girl said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now, that's another interesting thing about the UK. They seem to have very little pride in their country, despite their impressive history, they seem embarrassed by it. I find that odd.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know where you live in the UK but people are very proud to come from where I live.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As an individual, you may be. But generally, there is no real pride in your nation. And I think that's sad.... it has an exceptional history. I'm not 'proud' of England - but I respect it. Pity that the English don't seem to.
Click to expand...


Scottish and Welsh people are very proud of their Nation.  The only country which has this problem is England.  There people tend to have more pride and loyalty in their particular area.


----------



## Big Black Dog

I believe the source of all the trouble in the London area of England is the fact that the caffeine content of their tea has been reduced by 25%.  It's a shock to their systems.


----------



## Ernie S.

Colin said:


> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> People like YOU are part of the problem, not the solution, you worthless piece of detritis!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got video surveillance  of Tank burning down buildings? Don't be ridiculous. The only people to blame are the worthless pieces of shit who were involved and those that make excuses for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Strange. I didn't have you down as a supporter of racism!
Click to expand...


I'm not, nor do I dismiss logical ideas from people I disagree with. Tank is rather outspoken when it comes to race relations. In many cases, I agree with him despite his poor choice of words.
Very rarely is Tank flat out wrong. Is he a racist or a pragmatist? Hard for me to judge. 
You obviously do see him as racist and automatically reject anything he says based on that assessment.


----------



## Colin

California Girl said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ekrem said:
> 
> 
> 
> First the University protests, now this.
> Instead of putting money into "nothing" (Lybia) maybe the Brits should re-route some of that money into the more important things, I mean the money they take as credit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah... like deporting.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most of the rioters are not immigrants, Sy. They are British. Deport them to where? Fortunately, the government appears to be quite hard on rioters. Those arrested during the student riots got prison time.... and not just a month or two.  Over 500 were arrested last night. I hope they come down as hard on them.
Click to expand...


That's one of the main problems with discipline in Britain. Too many fucking bleeding hearts in the judiciary. Punishment NEVER fits the crime these days! And thanks to the EU and Tony Blair's administration, human rights law favours the criminal and not the victim!
I'm not at all confident these scumbags will get the sentence they deserve.


----------



## Intense

Ravi said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't racism. It's anarchy, mindless vandalism, sheer criminality and wilful violence. We are now seeing the results of bleeding heart liberalism. Those who destroyed discipline in this country and replaced it with political correctness.
> 
> ...and students who believe the world owes them a free ticket.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> London riots: From Hackney to Brixton Twitter and Blackberry help looters co-ordinate raids | Mail Online
> 
> 
> 
> Beat the feds? That doesn't sound like bleeding heart liberalism, it sounds like libertarian/anarchists.
Click to expand...

*
That doesn't sound like bleeding heart liberalism, it sounds like libertarian/anarchists.*
Now that is Precious Ravi. You should be a Novelist. Where do you come up with this stuff? It is a gift.


----------



## Intense

alexa said:


> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then would you agree that a way forward would be dealing with these gangs and replacing their influence with positive role models and structures so that they can see the possibility of reaching adulthood and getting a good job and their own home, rather than being on the dross pile trying to show their worth and make their money through crime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it's government's responsibility to provide role models? It's an individual choice to adopt a role model These kids have the *choice* of emulating productive, inspiring people, or thugs. They have *chosen* thugs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That would only be true if we were all born into roughly the same environment with the roughly the same opportunities.  Modern societies do not provide that.
> 
> You are showing very little knowledge of these areas.
Click to expand...


As opposed to what? Could you be more full of shit?


----------



## Colin

Ernie S. said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Got video surveillance  of Tank burning down buildings? Don't be ridiculous. The only people to blame are the worthless pieces of shit who were involved and those that make excuses for them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Strange. I didn't have you down as a supporter of racism!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not, nor do I dismiss logical ideas from people I disagree with. Tank is rather outspoken when it comes to race relations. In many cases, I agree with him despite his poor choice of words.
> Very rarely is Tank flat out wrong. Is he a racist or a pragmatist? Hard for me to judge.
> You obviously do see him as racist and automatically reject anything he says based on that assessment.
Click to expand...


Yes I do, when he puts this situation down to blacks. A quick review of the available photography shows the rioters are both black and white, but it suits his particular agenda to ignore that fact.


----------



## syrenn

California Girl said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ekrem said:
> 
> 
> 
> First the University protests, now this.
> Instead of putting money into "nothing" (Lybia) maybe the Brits should re-route some of that money into the more important things, I mean the money they take as credit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah... like deporting.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most of the rioters are not immigrants, Sy. They are British. Deport them to where? Fortunately, the government appears to be quite hard on rioters. Those arrested during the student riots got prison time.... and not just a month or two.  Over 500 were arrested last night. I hope they come down as hard on them.
Click to expand...


Oh i am not saying they are all immigrants.... ekrem thinks British money should be put to better use at home in Brittan.... I think it should be used to deport the illegals. 


I hope they all get some good hard time..and if they are underage.. both the kid and the parents get hard time.


----------



## California Girl

Colin said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah... like deporting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the rioters are not immigrants, Sy. They are British. Deport them to where? Fortunately, the government appears to be quite hard on rioters. Those arrested during the student riots got prison time.... and not just a month or two.  Over 500 were arrested last night. I hope they come down as hard on them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's one of the main problems with discipline in Britain. Too many fucking bleeding hearts in the judiciary. Punishment NEVER fits the crime these days! And thanks to the EU and Tony Blair's administration, human rights law favours the criminal and not the victim!
> I'm not at all confident these scumbags will get the sentence they deserve.
Click to expand...


But that kid who pissed on the cenotaph got 16 months in prison. That seemed reasonable to me. He's still in prison, I think. They do need to toughen up on sentencing, I agree.... but I think the Conservatives are doing that. Or they say they are. LOL.

I totally agree about the EU/Blair comment. That's kind of what I meant with my comment about this being the result of liberal policies... but I think it pre-dates Blair. Y'all got soft on crime long ago.... and pandering to the hordes of welfare babies does not help.


----------



## ekrem

*Video* - Shop-owners defend their businesses in east London


London Riots: Shop-owners defend their businesses in east London - video | UK news | guardian.co.uk


----------



## Ernie S.

alexa said:


> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then would you agree that a way forward would be dealing with these gangs and replacing their influence with positive role models and structures so that they can see the possibility of reaching adulthood and getting a good job and their own home, rather than being on the dross pile trying to show their worth and make their money through crime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it's government's responsibility to provide role models? It's an individual choice to adopt a role model These kids have the *choice* of emulating productive, inspiring people, or thugs. They have *chosen* thugs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That would only be true if we were all born into roughly the same environment with the roughly the same opportunities.  Modern societies do not provide that.
> 
> You are showing very little knowledge of these areas.
Click to expand...


Same environment, no. Same opportunities, for the most part, yes. Use what opportunity you have and you can change your environment. It is not the responsibility of government to provide results.


----------



## Intense

Colin said:


> This isn't racism. It's anarchy, mindless vandalism, sheer criminality and wilful violence. We are now seeing the results of bleeding heart liberalism. Those who destroyed discipline in this country and replaced it with political correctness.
> 
> ...and students who believe the world owes them a free ticket.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> London riots: From Hackney to Brixton Twitter and Blackberry help looters co-ordinate raids | Mail Online



Racism is a part of the equation, look at what is targeted. 

*It's anarchy, mindless vandalism, sheer criminality and willful violence.*
Why exclude Racism?
Why the Mass Attacks?
To what end? What is being served here?
What Justice is being served?


----------



## Swagger

Colin said:


> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Strange. I didn't have you down as a supporter of racism!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not, nor do I dismiss logical ideas from people I disagree with. Tank is rather outspoken when it comes to race relations. In many cases, I agree with him despite his poor choice of words.
> Very rarely is Tank flat out wrong. Is he a racist or a pragmatist? Hard for me to judge.
> You obviously do see him as racist and automatically reject anything he says based on that assessment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes I do, when he puts this situation down to blacks. A quick review of the available photography shows the rioters are both black and white, but it suits his particular agenda to ignore that fact.
Click to expand...


Oh come off it, Colin. Let's be honest with ourselves, eh? I'll grant you that the more this spreads to areas that are less predominantly black, the baton will be picked-up by thugs of whatever creed. But at the moment, however hard it is for you to swallow, the looters causing all the destruction across London are mainly black. I'm here, and I'm seeing it with my own eyes. They're mostly black, get over it.


----------



## alexa

Intense said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> So now it's government's responsibility to provide role models? It's an individual choice to adopt a role model These kids have the *choice* of emulating productive, inspiring people, or thugs. They have *chosen* thugs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would only be true if we were all born into roughly the same environment with the roughly the same opportunities.  Modern societies do not provide that.
> 
> You are showing very little knowledge of these areas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As opposed to what? Could you be more full of shit?
Click to expand...


I wasn't opposing it to anything.  You think you can compare people brought up in the New Town of Edinburgh with people brought up from the moment they are born on an estate with drugs and guns and gangs.  You can't.  Clearly the likely adult life of the person brought up in Edinburgh New Town will be one of the professions and the likely adult life of someone brought up in a crime estate is crime.  Your believe that they both have the same choice is erroneous

and if you want, a lack of knowledge of psychology, sociology, political sociology, history, criminology and no doubt a great deal more


----------



## California Girl

syrenn said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah... like deporting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the rioters are not immigrants, Sy. They are British. Deport them to where? Fortunately, the government appears to be quite hard on rioters. Those arrested during the student riots got prison time.... and not just a month or two.  Over 500 were arrested last night. I hope they come down as hard on them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh i am not saying they are all immigrants.... ekrem thinks British money should be put to better use at home in Brittan.... I think it should be used to deport the illegals.
> 
> 
> I hope they all get some good hard time..and if they are underage.. both the kid and the parents get hard time.
Click to expand...


Admittedly, there is a significant problem here with illegal immigrants, and they should deport them. But the EU HRA (Human Rights Act) ties Britain's hands somewhat in that regard. Stupid bullshit HRA. 

Personally, I think those caught and convicted should be made to put right the vandalism as part of their sentence, and should be made to pay - financially - for the damage to private homes and businesses. They can spend the rest of their miserable lives paying off their debt to society.... with cash.... and, until every penny is repaid, they should lose any welfare.


----------



## California Girl

Blagger said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not, nor do I dismiss logical ideas from people I disagree with. Tank is rather outspoken when it comes to race relations. In many cases, I agree with him despite his poor choice of words.
> Very rarely is Tank flat out wrong. Is he a racist or a pragmatist? Hard for me to judge.
> You obviously do see him as racist and automatically reject anything he says based on that assessment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I do, when he puts this situation down to blacks. A quick review of the available photography shows the rioters are both black and white, but it suits his particular agenda to ignore that fact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh come off it, Colin. Let's be honest with ourselves, eh? I'll grant you that the more this spreads to areas that are less predominantly black, the baton will be picked-up by thugs of whatever creed. But at the moment, however hard it is for you to swallow, the looters causing all the destruction across London are mainly black. I'm here, and I'm seeing it with my own eyes. They're mostly black, get over it.
Click to expand...


While that is true, they are not rioting because they are black. They are rioting because they are thugs. It's not about race, other than inner city areas where the riots are braking out are predominantly black. Happenstance, not race.


----------



## Swagger

alexa said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> That would only be true if we were all born into roughly the same environment with the roughly the same opportunities.  Modern societies do not provide that.
> 
> You are showing very little knowledge of these areas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As opposed to what? Could you be more full of shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wasn't opposing it to anything.  You think you can compare people brought up in the New Town of Edinburgh with people brought up from the moment they are born on an estate with drugs and guns and gangs.  You can't.  Clearly the likely adult life of the person brought up in Edinburgh New Town will be one of the professions and the likely adult life of someone brought up in a crime estate is crime.  Your believe that they both have the same choice is erroneous
> 
> and if you want, a lack of knowledge of psychology, sociology, political sociology, history, criminology and no doubt a great deal more
Click to expand...


Oh for God's sake, Alexa. Do you think there's any chance you could quarterise that bleeding heart of yours, for just one moment, eh?

I don't deny there is inequality, but these people are in no sense 'poor' except by comparison with what is a very small national minority. In fact, by comparison with most of the world these people are inestimably wealthy. In not having to work, and probably not even perform household chores such as dealing with their own sewerage, they will probably be outside the imagination of most of the world's population.

These people will have a complete expectation to be treated, for free, in hospitals created and staffed by the society they resent and are currently setting-out to destroy. What they see as 'inequality' is an apparent challenge to their acquisition of a BMW, when their expectation is to be given everything for nothing. They see no challenge with looting shops, because they've probably never worked hard for anything in their life.


----------



## syrenn

California Girl said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the rioters are not immigrants, Sy. They are British. Deport them to where? Fortunately, the government appears to be quite hard on rioters. Those arrested during the student riots got prison time.... and not just a month or two.  Over 500 were arrested last night. I hope they come down as hard on them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh i am not saying they are all immigrants.... ekrem thinks British money should be put to better use at home in Brittan.... I think it should be used to deport the illegals.
> 
> 
> I hope they all get some good hard time..and if they are underage.. both the kid and the parents get hard time.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Admittedly, there is a significant problem here with illegal immigrants, and they should deport them. But the EU HRA (Human Rights Act) ties Britain's hands somewhat in that regard. Stupid bullshit HRA.
> 
> Personally, I think those caught and convicted should be made to put right the vandalism as part of their sentence, and should be made to pay - financially - for the damage to private homes and businesses. They can spend the rest of their miserable lives paying off their debt to society.... with cash.... and, until every penny is repaid, they should lose any welfare.
Click to expand...


I totally agree... and it goes for any children they have or will have as a work around it.


----------



## Ravi

I just watched a few interviews on BBC and it seems mainly about how the police are targeting people in the poorer neighborhoods.

So easy to blame this on what you dislike. Better to know the real cause.


----------



## California Girl

syrenn said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh i am not saying they are all immigrants.... ekrem thinks British money should be put to better use at home in Brittan.... I think it should be used to deport the illegals.
> 
> 
> I hope they all get some good hard time..and if they are underage.. both the kid and the parents get hard time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admittedly, there is a significant problem here with illegal immigrants, and they should deport them. But the EU HRA (Human Rights Act) ties Britain's hands somewhat in that regard. Stupid bullshit HRA.
> 
> Personally, I think those caught and convicted should be made to put right the vandalism as part of their sentence, and should be made to pay - financially - for the damage to private homes and businesses. They can spend the rest of their miserable lives paying off their debt to society.... with cash.... and, until every penny is repaid, they should lose any welfare.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I totally agree... and it goes for any children they have or will have as a work around it.
Click to expand...


This morning I was watching the news as local people came together to clean up their neighborhoods and to thank the police. That's community... all of them out together to clean up.... not about black, white, asian, or any ethnicity... just Londoners trying to put right the damage.


----------



## Ernie S.

alexa said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> That would only be true if we were all born into roughly the same environment with the roughly the same opportunities.  Modern societies do not provide that.
> 
> You are showing very little knowledge of these areas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As opposed to what? Could you be more full of shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wasn't opposing it to anything.  You think you can compare people brought up in the New Town of Edinburgh with people brought up from the moment they are born on an estate with drugs and guns and gangs.  You can't.  Clearly the likely adult life of the person brought up in Edinburgh New Town will be one of the professions and the likely adult life of someone brought up in a crime estate is crime.  Your believe that they both have the same choice is erroneous
> 
> and if you want, a lack of knowledge of psychology, sociology, political sociology, history, criminology and no doubt a great deal more
Click to expand...

Are there not buses and trains in GB? Cannot a kid born in the estates go to Edinburgh and find work? Can he not develop a skill that he can exploit in order to better himself? Or is it just easier for him to remain on the dole and blame his condition on government?


----------



## Colin

California Girl said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the rioters are not immigrants, Sy. They are British. Deport them to where? Fortunately, the government appears to be quite hard on rioters. Those arrested during the student riots got prison time.... and not just a month or two.  Over 500 were arrested last night. I hope they come down as hard on them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's one of the main problems with discipline in Britain. Too many fucking bleeding hearts in the judiciary. Punishment NEVER fits the crime these days! And thanks to the EU and Tony Blair's administration, human rights law favours the criminal and not the victim!
> I'm not at all confident these scumbags will get the sentence they deserve.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that kid who pissed on the cenotaph got 16 months in prison. That seemed reasonable to me. He's still in prison, I think. They do need to toughen up on sentencing, I agree.... but I think the Conservatives are doing that. Or they say they are. LOL.
> 
> I totally agree about the EU/Blair comment. That's kind of what I meant with my comment about this being the result of liberal policies... but I think it pre-dates Blair. Y'all got soft on crime long ago.... and pandering to the hordes of welfare babies does not help.
Click to expand...


Yes, 16 months but due to our system, with good behaviour...out in eight. I don't think that is enough.

Blair brought the European human rights law into British law. There was no reason to do this and that's when our real problems re sentencing started. Who benefits most as a result? Certainly not the public. No. The fucking fat cat cat legal profession who make millions out of applying human rights to the cases of all sorts of criminal scumbags and the criminals themselves!


----------



## syrenn

Ravi said:


> I just watched a few interviews on BBC and it seems mainly about how the police are targeting people in the poorer neighborhoods.
> 
> So easy to blame this on what you dislike. Better to know the real cause.





So its the have nots doing the whole, if i cant have it you cant either thing?  Nice cause for a riot.


----------



## syrenn

California Girl said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Admittedly, there is a significant problem here with illegal immigrants, and they should deport them. But the EU HRA (Human Rights Act) ties Britain's hands somewhat in that regard. Stupid bullshit HRA.
> 
> Personally, I think those caught and convicted should be made to put right the vandalism as part of their sentence, and should be made to pay - financially - for the damage to private homes and businesses. They can spend the rest of their miserable lives paying off their debt to society.... with cash.... and, until every penny is repaid, they should lose any welfare.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I totally agree... and it goes for any children they have or will have as a work around it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This morning I was watching the news as local people came together to clean up their neighborhoods and to thank the police. That's community... all of them out together to clean up.... not about black, white, asian, or any ethnicity... just Londoners trying to put right the damage.
Click to expand...



its always the normal hard working people who end up cleanup the mess of the ass holes. 


And i do hope you are staying home today CG.


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> I just watched a few interviews on BBC and it seems mainly about how the police are targeting people in the poorer neighborhoods.
> 
> So easy to blame this on what you dislike. Better to know the real cause.



  The police are targeting poor people? Really?


----------



## California Girl

syrenn said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I totally agree... and it goes for any children they have or will have as a work around it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This morning I was watching the news as local people came together to clean up their neighborhoods and to thank the police. That's community... all of them out together to clean up.... not about black, white, asian, or any ethnicity... just Londoners trying to put right the damage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> its always the normal hard working people who end up cleanup the mess of the ass holes.
> 
> 
> And i do hope you are staying home today CG.
Click to expand...


Nope. Thugs ain't gonna stop me going about my business. I was out first thing this morning, and I'm probably gonna be going into Bristol tonight for dinner - they had riots there last night. 

But.... I'm an American... they mess with me, I mess with them.


----------



## Intense

alexa said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> That would only be true if we were all born into roughly the same environment with the roughly the same opportunities.  Modern societies do not provide that.
> 
> You are showing very little knowledge of these areas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As opposed to what? Could you be more full of shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wasn't opposing it to anything.  You think you can compare people brought up in the New Town of Edinburgh with people brought up from the moment they are born on an estate with drugs and guns and gangs.  You can't.  Clearly the likely adult life of the person brought up in Edinburgh New Town will be one of the professions and the likely adult life of someone brought up in a crime estate is crime.  Your believe that they both have the same choice is erroneous
> 
> and if you want, a lack of knowledge of psychology, sociology, political sociology, history, criminology and no doubt a great deal more
Click to expand...


You totally miss the point. Virtue remains virtue, Vice remains vice, wherever you look. Cause and effect remains true to it's nature wherever there is thought, word, or action. The only consideration I grant you here, is that there are those that do not act on vice only because the position or situation they are in has not exposed them to the temptation. Necessity brings out both the best and worse in us. There are those that know better, either out of instinct, or past experience, there are those that don't. It's in each of us to know better, it is in each of us to ignore conscience, and act destructively. 

Western Society offers more to the least of us, than any other in comparison. Corruption of Spirit is the issue here Alexa. Rich or poor, be satisfied with the hand you are dealt and build on it. Life, Liberty, The Pursuit of Happiness, are Unalienable Rights. To seal that from another, is to make war with the Forces of Creation, God. Get it. Sin + Sin cannot = Virtue. Righteousness does not distinguish between Rich and Poor.


----------



## California Girl

Intense said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> As opposed to what? Could you be more full of shit?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't opposing it to anything.  You think you can compare people brought up in the New Town of Edinburgh with people brought up from the moment they are born on an estate with drugs and guns and gangs.  You can't.  Clearly the likely adult life of the person brought up in Edinburgh New Town will be one of the professions and the likely adult life of someone brought up in a crime estate is crime.  Your believe that they both have the same choice is erroneous
> 
> and if you want, a lack of knowledge of psychology, sociology, political sociology, history, criminology and no doubt a great deal more
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You totally miss the point. Virtue remains virtue, Vice remains vice, wherever you look. Cause and effect remains true to it's nature wherever there is thought, word, or action. The only consideration I grant you here, is that there are those that do not act on vice only because the position or situation they are in has not exposed them to the temptation. Necessity brings out both the best and worse in us. There are those that know better, either out of instinct, or past experience, there are those that don't. It's in each of us to know better, it is in each of us to ignore conscience, and act destructively.
> 
> Western Society offers more to the least of us, than any other in comparison. Corruption of Spirit is the issue here Alexa. Rich or poor, be satisfied with the hand you are dealt and build on it. Life, Liberty, The Pursuit of Happiness, are Unalienable Rights. To seal that from another, is to make war with the Forces of Creation, God. Get it. Sin + Sin cannot = Virtue. Righteousness does not distinguish between Rich and Poor.
Click to expand...


This is happening in Britain, they don't have our 'Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness' mentality.


----------



## St.Blues

Ravi said:


> I just watched a few interviews on BBC and it seems mainly about how the police are targeting people in the poorer neighborhoods.
> 
> So easy to blame this on what you dislike. Better to know the real cause.



In theaters and coming to a neighborhood near you soon!

*Blues*

PS: _You owe me some and I want it!_


----------



## Intense

California Girl said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't opposing it to anything.  You think you can compare people brought up in the New Town of Edinburgh with people brought up from the moment they are born on an estate with drugs and guns and gangs.  You can't.  Clearly the likely adult life of the person brought up in Edinburgh New Town will be one of the professions and the likely adult life of someone brought up in a crime estate is crime.  Your believe that they both have the same choice is erroneous
> 
> and if you want, a lack of knowledge of psychology, sociology, political sociology, history, criminology and no doubt a great deal more
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You totally miss the point. Virtue remains virtue, Vice remains vice, wherever you look. Cause and effect remains true to it's nature wherever there is thought, word, or action. The only consideration I grant you here, is that there are those that do not act on vice only because the position or situation they are in has not exposed them to the temptation. Necessity brings out both the best and worse in us. There are those that know better, either out of instinct, or past experience, there are those that don't. It's in each of us to know better, it is in each of us to ignore conscience, and act destructively.
> 
> Western Society offers more to the least of us, than any other in comparison. Corruption of Spirit is the issue here Alexa. Rich or poor, be satisfied with the hand you are dealt and build on it. Life, Liberty, The Pursuit of Happiness, are Unalienable Rights. To seal that from another, is to make war with the Forces of Creation, God. Get it. Sin + Sin cannot = Virtue. Righteousness does not distinguish between Rich and Poor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is happening in Britain, they don't have our 'Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness' mentality.
Click to expand...


They did have it CG. Locke was British. John Locke: A Letter Concerning Toleration

Britain advocates Christianity. Maybe they need to pay more attention to Scripture. 

All this time I thought England was the 51st State!


----------



## California Girl

Intense said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> You totally miss the point. Virtue remains virtue, Vice remains vice, wherever you look. Cause and effect remains true to it's nature wherever there is thought, word, or action. The only consideration I grant you here, is that there are those that do not act on vice only because the position or situation they are in has not exposed them to the temptation. Necessity brings out both the best and worse in us. There are those that know better, either out of instinct, or past experience, there are those that don't. It's in each of us to know better, it is in each of us to ignore conscience, and act destructively.
> 
> Western Society offers more to the least of us, than any other in comparison. Corruption of Spirit is the issue here Alexa. Rich or poor, be satisfied with the hand you are dealt and build on it. Life, Liberty, The Pursuit of Happiness, are Unalienable Rights. To seal that from another, is to make war with the Forces of Creation, God. Get it. Sin + Sin cannot = Virtue. Righteousness does not distinguish between Rich and Poor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is happening in Britain, they don't have our 'Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness' mentality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They did have it CG. Locke was British. John Locke: A Letter Concerning Toleration
> 
> Britain advocates Christianity. Maybe they need to pay more attention to Scripture.
> 
> All this time I thought England was the 51st State!
Click to expand...


Britain doesn't 'advocate' Christianity. In fact, it treats Christians quite badly... they pander to Muslims though.


----------



## St.Blues

Intense said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> You totally miss the point. Virtue remains virtue, Vice remains vice, wherever you look. Cause and effect remains true to it's nature wherever there is thought, word, or action. The only consideration I grant you here, is that there are those that do not act on vice only because the position or situation they are in has not exposed them to the temptation. Necessity brings out both the best and worse in us. There are those that know better, either out of instinct, or past experience, there are those that don't. It's in each of us to know better, it is in each of us to ignore conscience, and act destructively.
> 
> Western Society offers more to the least of us, than any other in comparison. Corruption of Spirit is the issue here Alexa. Rich or poor, be satisfied with the hand you are dealt and build on it. Life, Liberty, The Pursuit of Happiness, are Unalienable Rights. To seal that from another, is to make war with the Forces of Creation, God. Get it. Sin + Sin cannot = Virtue. Righteousness does not distinguish between Rich and Poor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is happening in Britain, they don't have our 'Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness' mentality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They did have it CG. Locke was British. John Locke: A Letter Concerning Toleration
> 
> Britain advocates Christianity. Maybe they need to pay more attention to Scripture.
> 
> All this time I thought England was the 51st State!
Click to expand...


A State,  The USA's partner in crime is more like.. what do ya say?

Blues


----------



## alexa

Blagger said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> As opposed to what? Could you be more full of shit?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't opposing it to anything.  You think you can compare people brought up in the New Town of Edinburgh with people brought up from the moment they are born on an estate with drugs and guns and gangs.  You can't.  Clearly the likely adult life of the person brought up in Edinburgh New Town will be one of the professions and the likely adult life of someone brought up in a crime estate is crime.  Your believe that they both have the same choice is erroneous
> 
> and if you want, a lack of knowledge of psychology, sociology, political sociology, history, criminology and no doubt a great deal more
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh for God's sake, Alexa. Do you think there's any chance you could quarterise that bleeding heart of yours, for just one moment, eh?
Click to expand...



My 'bleeding heart' is my education.  I recommend a social science degree and a whole life's experience.  What makes you believe that your personal opinion has more value than education?





Blagger said:


> I don't deny there is inequality, but these people are in no sense 'poor' except by comparison with what is a very small national minority. In fact, by comparison with most of the world these people are inestimably wealthy. In not having to work, and probably not even perform household chores such as dealing with their own sewerage, they will probably be outside the imagination of most of the world's population.




I was not talking about their poverty but responding to someone saying it was a choice.  That simply isn't true.

However, £65 dole per week  buys sfa in this country.  Have you never heard of relative poverty.  While you are correct they are less poor than people in many places, relative to the standard of life which most Britain's enjoy, they have very little. 

Absolute poverty means not enough to eat

relative poverty means not having enough money to participate in the 'norms' of society. That is the poverty they suffer from and that poverty has social implications for all society.

Because they have so little, gangs have got in, they are the ones doing the socialisation spreading the crime ethos, allowing an opportunity for a person to grow in status, make some money, creating fear and demanding gang loyalty. So they take what their culture offers.  They join a gang and gain self esteem and money.

You do not understand how children learn in their childhood what life is like so that if all they see around is crime, instead of wanting to be the best in class, they will want to be the best criminal.

These areas need input.  Instead they have had 75% of their community money withdrawn and youth clubs closed.

They need to allow the possibility for those living there to be able to advance to a life other than crime.  They need opportunities and support to move on.




Blagger said:


> *
> These people will have a complete expectation to be treated, for free, in hospitals created and staffed by the society they resent and are currently setting-out to destroy.* What they see as 'inequality' is an apparent challenge to their acquisition of a BMW, when their expectation is to be given everything for nothing. They see no challenge with looting shops, because they've probably never worked hard for anything in their life.



These are children.  I suspect that is why we are just seeing this madness rather than any properly organised protest.

Being a purported member of the aristocracy you are an arrogant, patronising man.  Never occur to you that they might like what the rest of us lesser mortals in the UK want.  The opportunity to get a good education, a good job, buy a house and have a decent family life because I have to tell you that is what I have heard they are after.

Now my lawn needs cut.


----------



## English Dave

I watched our glorious leader, newly returned from his holiday villa this morning on TV.
Tonight will decide who is in charge of this country, the thugs or the law. I watched with
amazement on TV last night, these thieves and rioters running amoke in London and a few
other cities. The police just seemed to be standing there, and doing nothing. Hopefully
tonight the kid gloves will be taken off, I shall wait and see.......


----------



## California Girl

alexa said:


> Blagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't opposing it to anything.  You think you can compare people brought up in the New Town of Edinburgh with people brought up from the moment they are born on an estate with drugs and guns and gangs.  You can't.  Clearly the likely adult life of the person brought up in Edinburgh New Town will be one of the professions and the likely adult life of someone brought up in a crime estate is crime.  Your believe that they both have the same choice is erroneous
> 
> and if you want, a lack of knowledge of psychology, sociology, political sociology, history, criminology and no doubt a great deal more
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh for God's sake, Alexa. Do you think there's any chance you could quarterise that bleeding heart of yours, for just one moment, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> My 'bleeding heart' is my education.  I recommend a social science degree and a whole life's experience.  What makes you believe that your personal opinion has more value than education?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't deny there is inequality, but these people are in no sense 'poor' except by comparison with what is a very small national minority. In fact, by comparison with most of the world these people are inestimably wealthy. In not having to work, and probably not even perform household chores such as dealing with their own sewerage, they will probably be outside the imagination of most of the world's population.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I was not talking about their poverty but responding to someone saying it was a choice.  That simply isn't true.
> 
> However, £65 dole per week  buys sfa in this country.  Have you never heard of relative poverty.  While you are correct they are less poor than people in many places, relative to the standard of life which most Britain's enjoy, they have very little.
> 
> Absolute poverty means not enough to eat
> 
> relative poverty means not having enough money to participate in the 'norms' of society. That is the poverty they suffer from and that poverty has social implications for all society.
> 
> Because they have so little, gangs have got in, they are the ones doing the socialisation spreading the crime ethos, allowing an opportunity for a person to grow in status, make some money, creating fear and demanding gang loyalty. So they take what their culture offers.  They join a gang and gain self esteem and money.
> 
> You do not understand how children learn in their childhood what life is like so that if all they see around is crime, instead of wanting to be the best in class, they will want to be the best criminal.
> 
> These areas need input.  Instead they have had 75% of their community money withdrawn and youth clubs closed.
> 
> They need to allow the possibility for those living there to be able to advance to a life other than crime.  They need opportunities and support to move on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> These people will have a complete expectation to be treated, for free, in hospitals created and staffed by the society they resent and are currently setting-out to destroy.* What they see as 'inequality' is an apparent challenge to their acquisition of a BMW, when their expectation is to be given everything for nothing. They see no challenge with looting shops, because they've probably never worked hard for anything in their life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> These are children.  I suspect that is why we are just seeing this madness rather than any properly organised protest.
> 
> Being a purported member of the aristocracy you are an arrogant, patronising man.  Never occur to you that they might like what the rest of us lesser mortals in the UK want.  The opportunity to get a good education, a good job, buy a house and have a decent family life because I have to tell you that is what I have heard they are after.
> 
> Now my lawn needs cut.
Click to expand...


I work with people like you - social scientists. You guys are responsible for this shit. Your dumbassed 'research' and stupid 'research based conclusions' about handing people something for nothing is what brought this situation to fruition. I hope you're proud of yourselves. 

Want to know why these kids have no hope? Because people like you took it away from them. You created the hand out system that has, for generations, destroyed the fabric of Britain's society. You taught the parents and grandparents of these kids that they didn't have to work. You taught them that society owes them everything. You hand them homes, and money, and vacations, and goods, and services.... and you took away the single most valuable thing to human beings - self respect.


----------



## syrenn

California Girl said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh for God's sake, Alexa. Do you think there's any chance you could quarterise that bleeding heart of yours, for just one moment, eh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My 'bleeding heart' is my education.  I recommend a social science degree and a whole life's experience.  What makes you believe that your personal opinion has more value than education?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was not talking about their poverty but responding to someone saying it was a choice.  That simply isn't true.
> 
> However, £65 dole per week  buys sfa in this country.  Have you never heard of relative poverty.  While you are correct they are less poor than people in many places, relative to the standard of life which most Britain's enjoy, they have very little.
> 
> Absolute poverty means not enough to eat
> 
> relative poverty means not having enough money to participate in the 'norms' of society. That is the poverty they suffer from and that poverty has social implications for all society.
> 
> Because they have so little, gangs have got in, they are the ones doing the socialisation spreading the crime ethos, allowing an opportunity for a person to grow in status, make some money, creating fear and demanding gang loyalty. So they take what their culture offers.  They join a gang and gain self esteem and money.
> 
> You do not understand how children learn in their childhood what life is like so that if all they see around is crime, instead of wanting to be the best in class, they will want to be the best criminal.
> 
> These areas need input.  Instead they have had 75% of their community money withdrawn and youth clubs closed.
> 
> They need to allow the possibility for those living there to be able to advance to a life other than crime.  They need opportunities and support to move on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> These people will have a complete expectation to be treated, for free, in hospitals created and staffed by the society they resent and are currently setting-out to destroy.* What they see as 'inequality' is an apparent challenge to their acquisition of a BMW, when their expectation is to be given everything for nothing. They see no challenge with looting shops, because they've probably never worked hard for anything in their life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> These are children.  I suspect that is why we are just seeing this madness rather than any properly organised protest.
> 
> Being a purported member of the aristocracy you are an arrogant, patronising man.  Never occur to you that they might like what the rest of us lesser mortals in the UK want.  The opportunity to get a good education, a good job, buy a house and have a decent family life because I have to tell you that is what I have heard they are after.
> 
> Now my lawn needs cut.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I work with people like you - social scientists. You guys are responsible for this shit. Your dumbassed 'research' and stupid 'research based conclusions' about handing people something for nothing is what brought this situation to fruition. I hope you're proud of yourselves.
> 
> Want to know why these kids have no hope? Because people like you took it away from them. You created the hand out system that has, for generations, destroyed the fabric of Britain's society. You taught the parents and grandparents of these kids that they didn't have to work. You taught them that society owes them everything. You hand them homes, and money, and vacations, and goods, and services.... and you took away the single most valuable thing to human beings - self respect.
Click to expand...


----------



## alexa

syrenn said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> My 'bleeding heart' is my education.  I recommend a social science degree and a whole life's experience.  What makes you believe that your personal opinion has more value than education?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was not talking about their poverty but responding to someone saying it was a choice.  That simply isn't true.
> 
> However, £65 dole per week  buys sfa in this country.  Have you never heard of relative poverty.  While you are correct they are less poor than people in many places, relative to the standard of life which most Britain's enjoy, they have very little.
> 
> Absolute poverty means not enough to eat
> 
> relative poverty means not having enough money to participate in the 'norms' of society. That is the poverty they suffer from and that poverty has social implications for all society.
> 
> Because they have so little, gangs have got in, they are the ones doing the socialisation spreading the crime ethos, allowing an opportunity for a person to grow in status, make some money, creating fear and demanding gang loyalty. So they take what their culture offers.  They join a gang and gain self esteem and money.
> 
> You do not understand how children learn in their childhood what life is like so that if all they see around is crime, instead of wanting to be the best in class, they will want to be the best criminal.
> 
> These areas need input.  Instead they have had 75% of their community money withdrawn and youth clubs closed.
> 
> They need to allow the possibility for those living there to be able to advance to a life other than crime.  They need opportunities and support to move on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are children.  I suspect that is why we are just seeing this madness rather than any properly organised protest.
> 
> Being a purported member of the aristocracy you are an arrogant, patronising man.  Never occur to you that they might like what the rest of us lesser mortals in the UK want.  The opportunity to get a good education, a good job, buy a house and have a decent family life because I have to tell you that is what I have heard they are after.
> 
> Now my lawn needs cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I work with people like you - social scientists. You guys are responsible for this shit. Your dumbassed 'research' and stupid 'research based conclusions' about handing people something for nothing is what brought this situation to fruition. I hope you're proud of yourselves.
> 
> Want to know why these kids have no hope? Because people like you took it away from them. You created the hand out system that has, for generations, destroyed the fabric of Britain's society. You taught the parents and grandparents of these kids that they didn't have to work. You taught them that society owes them everything. You hand them homes, and money, and vacations, and goods, and services.... and you took away the single most valuable thing to human beings - self respect.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


what exactly do you do?  Have you not noticed that what I am saying is exactly the opposite of what you are claiming.

People need the opportunity to succeed.  When you have situations as have grown in gang areas in London and elsewhere where these have basically taken over the socialisation process, you clearly need different input to give the kids a chance to reach something new.

We did not have those kind of gangs when I lived in London -left '88 and at that time we were far more into having socialist values. These gangs should have been nipped in the bud when they arose, not just left for the community to live on welfare and criminal activity s.  If anything the problems come from Thatcherite ideas like there is no society or Friedman beliefs that we are all little isolated Robinson Crusoe's who care only for ourselves which is basically a psychopathic view as it believes people are totally without empathy.

Well tough luck because it is generally accepted here that after this is sorted out there is a need to address the issues.


----------



## Intense

St.Blues said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is happening in Britain, they don't have our 'Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness' mentality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They did have it CG. Locke was British. John Locke: A Letter Concerning Toleration
> 
> Britain advocates Christianity. Maybe they need to pay more attention to Scripture.
> 
> All this time I thought England was the 51st State!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A State,  The USA's partner in crime is more like.. what do ya say?
> 
> Blues
Click to expand...


Nah. Neither of us are destroying the quality of life. That's outside influence more than what is going on within.


----------



## California Girl

alexa said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I work with people like you - social scientists. You guys are responsible for this shit. Your dumbassed 'research' and stupid 'research based conclusions' about handing people something for nothing is what brought this situation to fruition. I hope you're proud of yourselves.
> 
> Want to know why these kids have no hope? Because people like you took it away from them. You created the hand out system that has, for generations, destroyed the fabric of Britain's society. You taught the parents and grandparents of these kids that they didn't have to work. You taught them that society owes them everything. You hand them homes, and money, and vacations, and goods, and services.... and you took away the single most valuable thing to human beings - self respect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what exactly do you do?  Have you not noticed that what I am saying is exactly the opposite of what you are claiming.
> 
> People need the opportunity to succeed.  When you have situations as have grown in gang areas in London and elsewhere where these have basically taken over the socialisation process, you clearly need different input to give the kids a chance to reach something new.
> 
> We did not have those kind of gangs when I lived in London -left '88 and at that time we were far more into having socialist values. These gangs should have been nipped in the bud when they arose, not just left for the community to live on welfare and criminal activity s.  If anything the problems come from Thatcherite ideas like there is no society or Friedman beliefs that we are all little isolated Robinson Crusoe's who care only for ourselves which is basically a psychopathic view as it believes people are totally without empathy.
> 
> Well tough luck because it is generally accepted here that after this is sorted out there is a need to address the issues.
Click to expand...


What do I do? I translate social science research and economic research into clear, concise English for non academics. I work with economists to write books, articles for media, etc. 

Even social scientists that I work with are talking about the abject failure of your 'research based' government policies. Nothing to do with Thatcher (although I believe she was wrong about many things).... Both your 'Labour' party or your 'Conservative' party have fucked this up. 

You cannot take away people's self respect and expect no consequence. That is what your welfare system does. 

I have said - many times - that all governments - yours and ours and others - need to realize that these 'socialist' policies do not work. They are damaging to individuals and to society. 

Social sciences.... you've done far more harm than good.


----------



## Intense

alexa said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I work with people like you - social scientists. You guys are responsible for this shit. Your dumbassed 'research' and stupid 'research based conclusions' about handing people something for nothing is what brought this situation to fruition. I hope you're proud of yourselves.
> 
> Want to know why these kids have no hope? Because people like you took it away from them. You created the hand out system that has, for generations, destroyed the fabric of Britain's society. You taught the parents and grandparents of these kids that they didn't have to work. You taught them that society owes them everything. You hand them homes, and money, and vacations, and goods, and services.... and you took away the single most valuable thing to human beings - self respect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what exactly do you do?  Have you not noticed that what I am saying is exactly the opposite of what you are claiming.
> 
> People need the opportunity to succeed.  When you have situations as have grown in gang areas in London and elsewhere where these have basically taken over the socialisation process, you clearly need different input to give the kids a chance to reach something new.
> 
> We did not have those kind of gangs when I lived in London -left '88 and at that time we were far more into having socialist values. These gangs should have been nipped in the bud when they arose, not just left for the community to live on welfare and criminal activity s.  If anything the problems come from Thatcherite ideas like there is no society or Friedman beliefs that we are all little isolated Robinson Crusoe's who care only for ourselves which is basically a psychopathic view as it believes people are totally without empathy.
> 
> Well tough luck because it is generally accepted here that after this is sorted out there is a need to address the issues.
Click to expand...


Without values there is no opportunity to succeed. The Individual V.S. the Collective, again and again. There is one thing you will never see an Individual without, and a Collective with. Conscience. Is it Individual Witness that the Collective fears most? Fear that it may be accused, exposed of misdirection, fear so great, that it must beat the individual into submission, the need to bind, to silence, to bring into conformity, rather than face the truth, the consequences of it's own actions. " The Emperor's New Suit", great read. As opposed to the State treating each Citizen as helpless dependent toddlers, it teaches personal Responsibility. Funny how we so often tend to build our ideologies on the most absurd foundations, huh.


----------



## Colin

alexa said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I work with people like you - social scientists. You guys are responsible for this shit. Your dumbassed 'research' and stupid 'research based conclusions' about handing people something for nothing is what brought this situation to fruition. I hope you're proud of yourselves.
> 
> Want to know why these kids have no hope? Because people like you took it away from them. You created the hand out system that has, for generations, destroyed the fabric of Britain's society. You taught the parents and grandparents of these kids that they didn't have to work. You taught them that society owes them everything. You hand them homes, and money, and vacations, and goods, and services.... and you took away the single most valuable thing to human beings - self respect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what exactly do you do?  Have you not noticed that what I am saying is exactly the opposite of what you are claiming.
> 
> People need the opportunity to succeed.  When you have situations as have grown in gang areas in London and elsewhere where these have basically taken over the socialisation process, you clearly need different input to give the kids a chance to reach something new.
> 
> We did not have those kind of gangs when I lived in London -left '88 and at that time we were far more into having socialist values. These gangs should have been nipped in the bud when they arose, not just left for the community to live on welfare and criminal activity s.  If anything the problems come from Thatcherite ideas like there is no society or Friedman beliefs that we are all little isolated Robinson Crusoe's who care only for ourselves which is basically a psychopathic view as it believes people are totally without empathy.
> 
> Well tough luck because it is generally accepted here that after this is sorted out there is a need to address the issues.
Click to expand...


Bullshit! Perhaps it has escaped your notice that the rioting and looting is no longer confined to the inner city ghettoes. It has now expanded to the more affluent leafy suburbs and yes, we sure do need to address the issues...starting with the likes of the bleeding hearts who are so quick to find excuses for these scum and who are a root cause of the breakdown of discipline in this country. First lesson...wanna riot and loot on our streets? Expect to get your head cracked. And when caught. Give them five years inside with no remission.


----------



## California Girl

Every police cell in London is full. Oops. They're gonna have to ship any new arrests out to the Home Counties. LOL


----------



## California Girl

Colin said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what exactly do you do?  Have you not noticed that what I am saying is exactly the opposite of what you are claiming.
> 
> People need the opportunity to succeed.  When you have situations as have grown in gang areas in London and elsewhere where these have basically taken over the socialisation process, you clearly need different input to give the kids a chance to reach something new.
> 
> We did not have those kind of gangs when I lived in London -left '88 and at that time we were far more into having socialist values. These gangs should have been nipped in the bud when they arose, not just left for the community to live on welfare and criminal activity s.  If anything the problems come from Thatcherite ideas like there is no society or Friedman beliefs that we are all little isolated Robinson Crusoe's who care only for ourselves which is basically a psychopathic view as it believes people are totally without empathy.
> 
> Well tough luck because it is generally accepted here that after this is sorted out there is a need to address the issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit! Perhaps it has escaped your notice that the rioting and looting is no longer confined to the inner city ghettoes. It has now expanded to the more affluent leafy suburbs and yes, we sure do need to address the issues...starting with the likes of the bleeding hearts who are so quick to find excuses for these scum and who are a root cause of the breakdown of discipline in this country. First lesson...wanna riot and loot on our streets? Expect to get your head cracked. And when caught. Give them five years inside with no remission.
Click to expand...


She's a social scientist.  I've yet to meet a social scientist that wasn't a bleeding heart liberal. They're all obsessed with finding excuses for brats. It's society's fault... 

What's that phrase you Brits use..... bring back the birch?  Give the little thugs a thrashing so they can't sit down for a week.


----------



## Colin

English Dave said:


> I watched our glorious leader, newly returned from his holiday villa this morning on TV.
> Tonight will decide who is in charge of this country, the thugs or the law. I watched with
> amazement on TV last night, these thieves and rioters running amoke in London and a few
> other cities. The police just seemed to be standing there, and doing nothing. Hopefully
> tonight the kid gloves will be taken off, I shall wait and see.......



Don't expect too much. The politicians have drawn the teeth of our police force to the extent that they are damned if they exert force and they're damned if they don't. How many times have we seen police officers in previous violent demonstrations charged for splitting heads with their batons? It's got so bad that most of the time all they're prepared to do is watch out for each other...and who can blame them. Until our politicians recognise that violence and looting can only be policed with FORCE, we are on a loser! These kids need to know that if they're on the streets to riot and loot they can expect ultimate force and if they get injured...fucking tough! Unfortunately Cameron et al don't have the balls to do the right thing. If only we had someone like Thatcher...the Iron Maiden!


----------



## Ravi

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just watched a few interviews on BBC and it seems mainly about how the police are targeting people in the poorer neighborhoods.
> 
> So easy to blame this on what you dislike. Better to know the real cause.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The police are targeting poor people? Really?
Click to expand...

According to the interviews I watched on BBC, yes.

It is also reported as if it is a class war.

And the Tories are blaming the police response as too slow and others are blaming the Tories for cutting the police.


----------



## Colin

California Girl said:


> Every police cell in London is full. Oops. They're gonna have to ship any new arrests out to the Home Counties. LOL



And there's another thing! What are our lily livered politicians going to say next? They're going to say, oh dear, we can't put these criminals in prison. The jails are full. Let's give them community orders. WTF! They keep crying about lack of space in our prisons...SO BUILD MORE FUCKING PRISONS, MORONS!

Successive governments sex up their manifestos with promises of tough on crime but come the hour we can see that manifestos are built on a foundation of lies! Still, as long as members of parliament are able to fiddle their expenses why should they worry about things not affecting their own back yard.


----------



## alexa

> London on Lockdown 	08-09-2011 04:19 PM 	GHook93 	*"Hopefully some of those rioters get you!" *



well a change from the sexual filth but as usual incapable of debating, just neg repping and hoping I am harmed.


----------



## Intense

London riots: international reaction
The riots in London have sparked shock around the world, with some countries issuing travel advisories for Britain and China blaming the UK's "human rights violations". Here is a round up of international reaction:
London riots: international reaction - Telegraph


----------



## Colin

Intense said:


> London riots: international reaction
> The riots in London have sparked shock around the world, with some countries issuing travel advisories for Britain and China blaming the UK's "human rights violations". Here is a round up of international reaction:
> London riots: international reaction - Telegraph



Hey, Intense! This should be in the Humor section. Biggest laugh I've had all week!


----------



## alexa

Colin said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every police cell in London is full. Oops. They're gonna have to ship any new arrests out to the Home Counties. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And there's another thing! What are our lily livered politicians going to say next? They're going to say, oh dear, we can't put these criminals in prison. The jails are full. Let's give them community orders. WTF! They keep crying about lack of space in our prisons...SO BUILD MORE FUCKING PRISONS, MORONS!
> 
> Successive governments sex up their manifestos with promises of tough on crime but come the hour we can see that manifestos are built on a foundation of lies! Still, as long as members of parliament are able to fiddle their expenses why should they worry about things not affecting their own back yard.
Click to expand...




> * England and Wales have the highest per capita prison population in Western Europe - 143 people per 100,000.*
> 
> Scotland, where 135 people out of every 100,000 are in jail, is also above average. Northern Ireland, however, is among those countries with the lowest rates of imprisonment.



BBC NEWS | In Depth

tough on time and low on rehabilitation does not solve crime.



> Labour made a mistake by "playing tough" on crime and allowing the prison population to soar to record levels during its time in government, instead of tackling sky-high reoffending rates, the shadow justice secretary, Sadiq Khan, is to acknowledge for the first time on Monday.
> 
> -snip-
> 
> * "A focus on rehabilitation and reducing reoffending was seen as being soft on crime, when in fact it is effective in reducing crime."*
> 
> Khan also warns that Ken Clarke's "rehabilitation revolution", which includes greater use of the voluntary sector and payment-by-results schemes, is seriously jeopardised by 25% cuts in the justice ministry's budget. He argues that if Clarke's plans fail then much of the progress in criminal justice over the past 13 years will be undone and the door left opened for the Tory right.



Labour admits 'tough' penal policy failed to stem reoffending | Society | The Guardian


----------



## alexa

Colin said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what exactly do you do?  Have you not noticed that what I am saying is exactly the opposite of what you are claiming.
> 
> People need the opportunity to succeed.  When you have situations as have grown in gang areas in London and elsewhere where these have basically taken over the socialisation process, you clearly need different input to give the kids a chance to reach something new.
> 
> We did not have those kind of gangs when I lived in London -left '88 and at that time we were far more into having socialist values. These gangs should have been nipped in the bud when they arose, not just left for the community to live on welfare and criminal activity s.  If anything the problems come from Thatcherite ideas like there is no society or Friedman beliefs that we are all little isolated Robinson Crusoe's who care only for ourselves which is basically a psychopathic view as it believes people are totally without empathy.
> 
> Well tough luck because it is generally accepted here that after this is sorted out there is a need to address the issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit! Perhaps it has escaped your notice that the rioting and looting is no longer confined to the inner city ghettoes. It has now expanded to the more affluent leafy suburbs and yes, we sure do need to address the issues...starting with the likes of the bleeding hearts who are so quick to find excuses for these scum and who are a root cause of the breakdown of discipline in this country. First lesson...wanna riot and loot on our streets? *Expect to get your head cracked.* And when caught. Give them five years inside with no remission.
Click to expand...


I wish you guys would stop distorting what I am saying.  I am not now and never have supported the rioting though it is just as bad wherever it happens.

I am not going to repeat what I said because anyone with any intelligence and openness will be able to see.  I hope you are not like GHook wanting my head cracked..


----------



## Colin

alexa said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every police cell in London is full. Oops. They're gonna have to ship any new arrests out to the Home Counties. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And there's another thing! What are our lily livered politicians going to say next? They're going to say, oh dear, we can't put these criminals in prison. The jails are full. Let's give them community orders. WTF! They keep crying about lack of space in our prisons...SO BUILD MORE FUCKING PRISONS, MORONS!
> 
> Successive governments sex up their manifestos with promises of tough on crime but come the hour we can see that manifestos are built on a foundation of lies! Still, as long as members of parliament are able to fiddle their expenses why should they worry about things not affecting their own back yard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * England and Wales have the highest per capita prison population in Western Europe - 143 people per 100,000.*
> 
> Scotland, where 135 people out of every 100,000 are in jail, is also above average. Northern Ireland, however, is among those countries with the lowest rates of imprisonment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> BBC NEWS | In Depth
> 
> tough on time and low on rehabilitation does not solve crime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Labour made a mistake by "playing tough" on crime and allowing the prison population to soar to record levels during its time in government, instead of tackling sky-high reoffending rates, the shadow justice secretary, Sadiq Khan, is to acknowledge for the first time on Monday.
> 
> -snip-
> 
> * "A focus on rehabilitation and reducing reoffending was seen as being soft on crime, when in fact it is effective in reducing crime."*
> 
> Khan also warns that Ken Clarke's "rehabilitation revolution", which includes greater use of the voluntary sector and payment-by-results schemes, is seriously jeopardised by 25% cuts in the justice ministry's budget. He argues that if Clarke's plans fail then much of the progress in criminal justice over the past 13 years will be undone and the door left opened for the Tory right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Labour admits 'tough' penal policy failed to stem reoffending | Society | The Guardian
Click to expand...


That's another thing bleeding hearts have done! Made the prisons too comfortable. We should take a leaf out of how the military prison in Colchester is run. I guarantee reoffending would reduce!


----------



## Intense

Colin said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> London riots: international reaction
> The riots in London have sparked shock around the world, with some countries issuing travel advisories for Britain and China blaming the UK's "human rights violations". Here is a round up of international reaction:
> London riots: international reaction - Telegraph
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, Intense! This should be in the Humor section. Biggest laugh I've had all week!
Click to expand...


Yes. I especially got a kick out of China's response.


----------



## editec

California Girl said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> what exactly do you do? Have you not noticed that what I am saying is exactly the opposite of what you are claiming.
> 
> People need the opportunity to succeed. When you have situations as have grown in gang areas in London and elsewhere where these have basically taken over the socialisation process, you clearly need different input to give the kids a chance to reach something new.
> 
> We did not have those kind of gangs when I lived in London -left '88 and at that time we were far more into having socialist values. These gangs should have been nipped in the bud when they arose, not just left for the community to live on welfare and criminal activity s. If anything the problems come from Thatcherite ideas like there is no society or Friedman beliefs that we are all little isolated Robinson Crusoe's who care only for ourselves which is basically a psychopathic view as it believes people are totally without empathy.
> 
> Well tough luck because it is generally accepted here that after this is sorted out there is a need to address the issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit! Perhaps it has escaped your notice that the rioting and looting is no longer confined to the inner city ghettoes. It has now expanded to the more affluent leafy suburbs and yes, we sure do need to address the issues...starting with the likes of the bleeding hearts who are so quick to find excuses for these scum and who are a root cause of the breakdown of discipline in this country. First lesson...wanna riot and loot on our streets? Expect to get your head cracked. And when caught. Give them five years inside with no remission.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She's a social scientist.  *I've yet to meet a social scientist that wasn't a bleeding heart liberal*. They're all obsessed with finding excuses for brats. It's society's fault...
> 
> What's that phrase you Brits use..... bring back the birch?  Give the little thugs a thrashing so they can't sit down for a week.
Click to expand...

 
Penologists are social scientists, too.

Cali, I have my doubts about your veracity.

Post like the above are why.


----------



## Colin

alexa said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> what exactly do you do?  Have you not noticed that what I am saying is exactly the opposite of what you are claiming.
> 
> People need the opportunity to succeed.  When you have situations as have grown in gang areas in London and elsewhere where these have basically taken over the socialisation process, you clearly need different input to give the kids a chance to reach something new.
> 
> We did not have those kind of gangs when I lived in London -left '88 and at that time we were far more into having socialist values. These gangs should have been nipped in the bud when they arose, not just left for the community to live on welfare and criminal activity s.  If anything the problems come from Thatcherite ideas like there is no society or Friedman beliefs that we are all little isolated Robinson Crusoe's who care only for ourselves which is basically a psychopathic view as it believes people are totally without empathy.
> 
> Well tough luck because it is generally accepted here that after this is sorted out there is a need to address the issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit! Perhaps it has escaped your notice that the rioting and looting is no longer confined to the inner city ghettoes. It has now expanded to the more affluent leafy suburbs and yes, we sure do need to address the issues...starting with the likes of the bleeding hearts who are so quick to find excuses for these scum and who are a root cause of the breakdown of discipline in this country. First lesson...wanna riot and loot on our streets? *Expect to get your head cracked.* And when caught. Give them five years inside with no remission.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wish you guys would stop distorting what I am saying.  I am not now and never have supported the rioting though it is just as bad wherever it happens.
> 
> I am not going to repeat what I said because anyone with any intelligence and openness will be able to see.  *I hope you are not like GHook wanting my head cracked*..
Click to expand...


Have I said anything remotely similar? NO! So, why say it? Is that part of your ploy...to put the words into someone else's mouth. I can't say I'm surprised.


----------



## English Dave

I watched the TV last night with a growing sense of unease as time passed. The police
seemed to lack leadership, and did'nt seem to know what to do. I feel London police have
been dragged over the coals for so many years now they seem frightened to act in case they
are accused of brutality. We are victims of what politicians years ago called a multi cultural
experiment - an experiment!! Well, it's failed, and we're reaping what's been sown.


----------



## Tank

They really need to remove the negros from England or this will never stop.

You all know what happened to Haiti, right?


----------



## California Girl

English Dave said:


> I watched the TV last night with a growing sense of unease as time passed. The police
> seemed to lack leadership, and did'nt seem to know what to do. I feel London police have
> been dragged over the coals for so many years now they seem frightened to act in case they
> are accused of brutality. We are victims of what politicians years ago called a multi cultural
> experiment - an experiment!! Well, it's failed, and we're reaping what's been sown.



The police don't lack leadership, they lack numbers. There weren't enough of them to go around last night. There is now. They got their game on. Let's see how the rioters cope with 16,000 police officers, in full riot gear, in front of them. 

Bring it, brats!


----------



## Ravi

English Dave said:


> I watched the TV last night with a growing sense of unease as time passed. The police
> seemed to lack leadership, and did'nt seem to know what to do. I feel London police have
> been dragged over the coals for so many years now they seem frightened to act in case they
> are accused of brutality. We are victims of what politicians years ago called a multi cultural
> experiment - an experiment!! Well, it's failed, and we're reaping what's been sown.


It looks to me as if England got rid of a lot of their officers. And/or forced them to work alone instead of in pairs.

Theresa May: Police officers will have to accept pay cuts or jobs will be lost | Mail Online

Now how brilliant is it to cut the police when poverty is on the increase and so too is crime?


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> I watched the TV last night with a growing sense of unease as time passed. The police
> seemed to lack leadership, and did'nt seem to know what to do. I feel London police have
> been dragged over the coals for so many years now they seem frightened to act in case they
> are accused of brutality. We are victims of what politicians years ago called a multi cultural
> experiment - an experiment!! Well, it's failed, and we're reaping what's been sown.
> 
> 
> 
> It looks to me as if England got rid of a lot of their officers. And/or forced them to work alone instead of in pairs.
> 
> Theresa May: Police officers will have to accept pay cuts or jobs will be lost | Mail Online
> 
> Now how brilliant is it to cut the police when poverty is on the increase and so too is crime?
Click to expand...


Yea, if only the previous Labour (Liberal) Government hadn't spent their country into oblivion, they wouldn't have had to cut police numbers to pay for it.  Britain had a growing, strong economy... and economists were advising its Labour Government to save and cut back on spending because they feared a crash. They were ignored. The economy crashed and Labour bankrupted the country. Now, the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats have to try and put the country back on track. Isn't Liberal overspending brilliant! That's what led to these cuts in policing.


----------



## Ravi

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> I watched the TV last night with a growing sense of unease as time passed. The police
> seemed to lack leadership, and did'nt seem to know what to do. I feel London police have
> been dragged over the coals for so many years now they seem frightened to act in case they
> are accused of brutality. We are victims of what politicians years ago called a multi cultural
> experiment - an experiment!! Well, it's failed, and we're reaping what's been sown.
> 
> 
> 
> It looks to me as if England got rid of a lot of their officers. And/or forced them to work alone instead of in pairs.
> 
> Theresa May: Police officers will have to accept pay cuts or jobs will be lost | Mail Online
> 
> Now how brilliant is it to cut the police when poverty is on the increase and so too is crime?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yea, if only the previous Labour (Liberal) Government hadn't spent their country into oblivion, they wouldn't have had to cut police numbers to pay for it.  Britain had a growing, strong economy... and economists were advising its Labour Government to save and cut back on spending because they feared a crash. They were ignored. The economy crashed and Labour bankrupted the country. Now, the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats have to try and put the country back on track. Isn't Liberal overspending brilliant! That's what led to these cuts in policing.
Click to expand...

Bush's Poodle did what Bush did. 

But that doesn't excuse the stupidity of cutting police forces when poverty is on the rise. You'd think London would understand that better than almost any other place on earth, given their history.


----------



## Tank

Many people believe that crime is a product of poverty and lack of &#8220;advantages.&#8221; However, the District of Columbia, which enjoys the highest average annual salaries and is second only to Alaska in personal income per capita, leads the nation in just about every category of crime including murder, robbery, aggravated assault, and vehicle theft. D.C. also has the country&#8217;s strictest gun control, highest police costs per capita, highest ration of police and correctional of ficers per citizen, and highest rate of incarceration. Its permanent population is over 80 % Black. West Virginia, which has the nation&#8217;s lowest crime rate, suffers from chronic poverty and has the highest unemployment in the U.S. It also has the fewest police per capita. West Virginia is over 96 % White.


----------



## Ravi

Tank said:


> Many people believe that crime is a product of poverty and lack of advantages. However, the District of Columbia, which enjoys the highest average annual salaries and is second only to Alaska in personal income per capita, leads the nation in just about every category of crime including murder, robbery, aggravated assault, and vehicle theft. D.C. also has the countrys strictest gun control, highest police costs per capita, highest ration of police and correctional of ficers per citizen, and highest rate of incarceration. Its permanent population is over 80 % Black. West Virginia, which has the nations lowest crime rate, suffers from chronic poverty and has the highest unemployment in the U.S. It also has the fewest police per capita. West Virginia is over 96 % White.


Betcha the people earning those high salaries don't live in DC.


----------



## English Dave

I hope you're right California Girl about 16,000 police tonight. Last night they said a lot of
the problem is that they haven't got enough police officers who have goy riot training, you
know, the guys in all the riot gear, if the police don't get on top of this tonight, what next?
It looks like they're going to throw everything at it they've got. But the rioters can go home
and rest up in the middle of the night, ready for tomorrow, the police will be there all night.
They will get exhausted without fresh backup. The rioters will know this.


----------



## Colin

Ravi said:


> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> I watched the TV last night with a growing sense of unease as time passed. The police
> seemed to lack leadership, and did'nt seem to know what to do. I feel London police have
> been dragged over the coals for so many years now they seem frightened to act in case they
> are accused of brutality. We are victims of what politicians years ago called a multi cultural
> experiment - an experiment!! Well, it's failed, and we're reaping what's been sown.
> 
> 
> 
> It looks to me as if England got rid of a lot of their officers. And/or forced them to work alone instead of in pairs.
> 
> Theresa May: Police officers will have to accept pay cuts or jobs will be lost | Mail Online
> 
> Now how brilliant is it to cut the police when poverty is on the increase and so too is crime?
Click to expand...


It's the same brilliance that cuts our armed forces while they are expected to fight a war. 
The same brilliance that donates billions in foreign aid when we're bankrupt.
The same brilliance that hired former News of the World editor Andy Coulson - despite numerous warnings. 
I guess you get the picture!


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> It looks to me as if England got rid of a lot of their officers. And/or forced them to work alone instead of in pairs.
> 
> Theresa May: Police officers will have to accept pay cuts or jobs will be lost | Mail Online
> 
> Now how brilliant is it to cut the police when poverty is on the increase and so too is crime?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, if only the previous Labour (Liberal) Government hadn't spent their country into oblivion, they wouldn't have had to cut police numbers to pay for it.  Britain had a growing, strong economy... and economists were advising its Labour Government to save and cut back on spending because they feared a crash. They were ignored. The economy crashed and Labour bankrupted the country. Now, the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats have to try and put the country back on track. Isn't Liberal overspending brilliant! That's what led to these cuts in policing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bush's Poodle did what Bush did.
> 
> But that doesn't excuse the stupidity of cutting police forces when poverty is on the rise. You'd think London would understand that better than almost any other place on earth, given their history.
Click to expand...


Could you focus on the actual issue and not clutter it with the 'bush' bitch? 

It's not about Blair, or about Bush. It is about blatant and stupid overspending by a Labour Government obsessed with a welfare culture. 'London' isn't a stand alone economy.... it is part of the English economy.... which is part of the British economy.... London can't 'understand' jack shit.... London, like every other part of England was told they had to make 20% savings across the board.... that means policing, and everything else. They had no choice but to cut numbers.... and the reason why I have already outlined - because the Labour government spent money it did not have. Not rocket science.


----------



## Colin

Tank said:


> They really need to remove the negros from England or this will never stop.
> 
> You all know what happened to Haiti, right?



Would we expect anything else from this predictable maggot? No. Of course not.


----------



## Ravi

Colin said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> I watched the TV last night with a growing sense of unease as time passed. The police
> seemed to lack leadership, and did'nt seem to know what to do. I feel London police have
> been dragged over the coals for so many years now they seem frightened to act in case they
> are accused of brutality. We are victims of what politicians years ago called a multi cultural
> experiment - an experiment!! Well, it's failed, and we're reaping what's been sown.
> 
> 
> 
> It looks to me as if England got rid of a lot of their officers. And/or forced them to work alone instead of in pairs.
> 
> Theresa May: Police officers will have to accept pay cuts or jobs will be lost | Mail Online
> 
> Now how brilliant is it to cut the police when poverty is on the increase and so too is crime?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's the same brilliance that cuts our armed forces while they are expected to fight a war.
> The same brilliance that donates billions in foreign aid when we're bankrupt.
> The same brilliance that hired former News of the World editor Andy Coulson - despite numerous warnings.
> I guess you get the picture!
Click to expand...


Yeah, we have the same stupid problems here, no matter who is in charge.


----------



## Tank

Ravi said:


> But that doesn't excuse the stupidity of cutting police forces when poverty is on the rise. You'd think London would understand that better than almost any other place on earth, given their history.


Why would "poor" people riot because a black drug dealer was killed, should'nt they be happy?


----------



## Flagwavrusa

English Dave said:


> I hope you're right California Girl about 16,000 police tonight. Last night they said a lot of
> the problem is that they haven't got enough police officers who have goy riot training, you
> know, the guys in all the riot gear, if the police don't get on top of this tonight, what next?
> It looks like they're going to throw everything at it they've got. But the rioters can go home
> and rest up in the middle of the night, ready for tomorrow, the police will be there all night.
> They will get exhausted without fresh backup. The rioters will know this.



Assuming there are some Britons left who are willing to fight for their country, the police should deputize law-abiding citizens, arm them, and issue orders to shoot looters on sight. An example needs to be made or this mayhem will continue to spread world wide, including here in America.


----------



## Ravi

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, if only the previous Labour (Liberal) Government hadn't spent their country into oblivion, they wouldn't have had to cut police numbers to pay for it.  Britain had a growing, strong economy... and economists were advising its Labour Government to save and cut back on spending because they feared a crash. They were ignored. The economy crashed and Labour bankrupted the country. Now, the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats have to try and put the country back on track. Isn't Liberal overspending brilliant! That's what led to these cuts in policing.
> 
> 
> 
> Bush's Poodle did what Bush did.
> 
> But that doesn't excuse the stupidity of cutting police forces when poverty is on the rise. You'd think London would understand that better than almost any other place on earth, given their history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Could you focus on the actual issue and not clutter it with the 'bush' bitch?
> 
> It's not about Blair, or about Bush. It is about blatant and stupid overspending by a Labour Government obsessed with a welfare culture. 'London' isn't a stand alone economy.... it is part of the English economy.... which is part of the British economy.... London can't 'understand' jack shit.... London, like every other part of England was told they had to make 20% savings across the board.... that means policing, and everything else. They had no choice but to cut numbers.... and the reason why I have already outlined - because the Labour government spent money it did not have. Not rocket science.
Click to expand...


You're the one that brought him up.

I would say it is more correct to blame the layoffs in the police forces in the government bailouts of the banks. It is possible if the banks weren't bailed out things would be even worse than they are now.

It is still a stupid thing to do to cut police forces when poverty is high.


----------



## Tank

I know if a drug dealer was killed in my neighborhood, I'd be thanking the police.


----------



## St.Blues

This isn't about stupidity... Its about an agenda. Divide and concur all.
Think outside the obvious. 

Blues


----------



## St.Blues

California Girl said:


> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> I watched the TV last night with a growing sense of unease as time passed. The police
> seemed to lack leadership, and did'nt seem to know what to do. I feel London police have
> been dragged over the coals for so many years now they seem frightened to act in case they
> are accused of brutality. We are victims of what politicians years ago called a multi cultural
> experiment - an experiment!! Well, it's failed, and we're reaping what's been sown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The police don't lack leadership, they lack numbers. There weren't enough of them to go around last night. There is now. They got their game on. Let's see how the rioters cope with 16,000 police officers, in full riot gear, in front of them.
> 
> Bring it, brats!
Click to expand...


Cal Girl the Tuffy huh? Go get em !

I just erased a few pm's by mistake.. dah!

Blues


----------



## High_Gravity

Ravi said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Many people believe that crime is a product of poverty and lack of advantages. However, the District of Columbia, which enjoys the highest average annual salaries and is second only to Alaska in personal income per capita, leads the nation in just about every category of crime including murder, robbery, aggravated assault, and vehicle theft. D.C. also has the countrys strictest gun control, highest police costs per capita, highest ration of police and correctional of ficers per citizen, and highest rate of incarceration. Its permanent population is over 80 % Black. West Virginia, which has the nations lowest crime rate, suffers from chronic poverty and has the highest unemployment in the U.S. It also has the fewest police per capita. West Virginia is over 96 % White.
> 
> 
> 
> Betcha the people earning those high salaries don't live in DC.
Click to expand...


Nope, they all live in the suburbs in Maryland or across state lines in Alexandria Virginia.


----------



## St.Blues

High_Gravity said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Many people believe that crime is a product of poverty and lack of advantages. However, the District of Columbia, which enjoys the highest average annual salaries and is second only to Alaska in personal income per capita, leads the nation in just about every category of crime including murder, robbery, aggravated assault, and vehicle theft. D.C. also has the countrys strictest gun control, highest police costs per capita, highest ration of police and correctional of ficers per citizen, and highest rate of incarceration. Its permanent population is over 80 % Black. West Virginia, which has the nations lowest crime rate, suffers from chronic poverty and has the highest unemployment in the U.S. It also has the fewest police per capita. West Virginia is over 96 % White.
> 
> 
> 
> Betcha the people earning those high salaries don't live in DC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope, they all live in the suburbs in Maryland or across state lines in Alexandria Virginia.
Click to expand...


I wouldn't think anyone who is educated and working every day would live in DC, do you agree?


----------



## High_Gravity

Tank said:


> They really need to remove the negros from England or this will never stop.
> 
> You all know what happened to Haiti, right?



Why would you say this? the person shot was black but from what I understand the riots are involving people from all races and ethnicities in England, even whites are rioting.


----------



## High_Gravity

St.Blues said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Betcha the people earning those high salaries don't live in DC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, they all live in the suburbs in Maryland or across state lines in Alexandria Virginia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wouldn't think anyone who is educated and working every day would live in DC, do you agree?
Click to expand...


Why would they? crime is through the roof and their schools are terrible, anybody who has a chance to live somewhere else usually does.


----------



## Ravi

This will not help matters:

Mark Duggan, whose shooting by police sparked London's riots, did not fire a shot at police officers before they killed him, the Independent Police Complaints Commission said on Tuesday.

Releasing the initial findings of ballistics tests, the police watchdog said a CO19 firearms officer fired two bullets, and that a bullet that lodged in a police radio was "consistent with being fired from a police gun".

Mark Duggan did not shoot at police, says IPCC | UK news | guardian.co.uk


----------



## Tank

High_Gravity said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> They really need to remove the negros from England or this will never stop.
> 
> You all know what happened to Haiti, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you say this? the person shot was black but from what I understand the riots are involving people from all races and ethnicities in England, even whites are rioting.
Click to expand...

Nope, It is overwelming blacks.


----------



## High_Gravity

These guys don't look Black to me.


----------



## High_Gravity

Tank said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> They really need to remove the negros from England or this will never stop.
> 
> You all know what happened to Haiti, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you say this? the person shot was black but from what I understand the riots are involving people from all races and ethnicities in England, even whites are rioting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, It is overwelming blacks.
Click to expand...


I don't believe this is the case.


----------



## Rat in the Hat

This is unbelievable. Two of the little punks bragging about their crimes, and hoping that it happens again tonight.

BBC News - London rioters: 'Showing the rich we do what we want'


----------



## California Girl

High_Gravity said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you say this? the person shot was black but from what I understand the riots are involving people from all races and ethnicities in England, even whites are rioting.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, It is overwelming blacks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't believe this is the case.
Click to expand...


Actually, what they appear to be mainly is young. Young blacks. Young whites. Mainly male but also some females. But mostly young.


----------



## High_Gravity

California Girl said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, It is overwelming blacks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe this is the case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, what they appear to be mainly is young. Young blacks. Young whites. Mainly male but also some females. But mostly young.
Click to expand...


So young people are unhappy in England?


----------



## California Girl

High_Gravity said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe this is the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, what they appear to be mainly is young. Young blacks. Young whites. Mainly male but also some females. But mostly young.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So young people are unhappy in England?
Click to expand...


As I've said earlier in the thread, these kids see no future. They mainly come from families where welfare is their way of life. They come from parents who have never worked, grandparents who never worked, they have their rent paid, their vacations paid, their bills paid, everything is provided for them. They have no concept of work. And they resent people who do work. Is that their fault? Not entirely. It is decades of liberal policies in action that led them here. It is decades of either leaving school with no qualifications or university and these kids don't see the opportunity of university. 

They claim they're 'showing the rich what they can do' and yet the people they have hurt the most are those on minimum wage. They haven't 'shown the rich', they have hurt their own.... they are little thugs who have no sense of responsibility because no one has ever held them accountable for their actions. They commit crime, they get a slap on the wrist and rewarded with new stuff - because they might feel excluded because they don't cannot afford designer clothes or shoes.... so they get given designer label clothes and shoes. And they commit more crime.... and they get a slap on the wrist again and more free stuff. 

Liberal Britain. Learn about it - because if the Democrats have their way, this is what we will become.


----------



## Colin

Tank said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> They really need to remove the negros from England or this will never stop.
> 
> You all know what happened to Haiti, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you say this? the person shot was black but from what I understand the riots are involving people from all races and ethnicities in England, even whites are rioting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, It is overwelming blacks.
Click to expand...


Tanks our expert on the ground from 8,000 miles away. Fucking moron!


----------



## Tank

High_Gravity said:


> These guys don't look Black to me.


These pictures are not from the riots going on today.


----------



## Ravi

California Girl said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, what they appear to be mainly is young. Young blacks. Young whites. Mainly male but also some females. But mostly young.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So young people are unhappy in England?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As I've said earlier in the thread, these kids see no future. They mainly come from families where welfare is their way of life. They come from parents who have never worked, grandparents who never worked, they have their rent paid, their vacations paid, their bills paid, everything is provided for them. They have no concept of work. And they resent people who do work. Is that their fault? Not entirely. It is decades of liberal policies in action that led them here. It is decades of either leaving school with no qualifications or university and these kids don't see the opportunity of university.
> 
> They claim they're 'showing the rich what they can do' and yet the people they have hurt the most are those on minimum wage. They haven't 'shown the rich', they have hurt their own.... they are little thugs who have no sense of responsibility because no one has ever held them accountable for their actions. They commit crime, they get a slap on the wrist and rewarded with new stuff - because they might feel excluded because they don't cannot afford designer clothes or shoes.... so they get given designer label clothes and shoes. And they commit more crime.... and they get a slap on the wrist again and more free stuff.
> 
> Liberal Britain. Learn about it - because if the Democrats have their way, this is what we will become.
Click to expand...


Or just maybe they resent the royal weddings and excessive spending of the upper classes while they can find no work.

Of course, that's probably the result of liberalism, too.


----------



## High_Gravity

Tank said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> These guys don't look Black to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These pictures are not from the riots going on today.
Click to expand...


It appears you are correct, I typed in London riots and this is what came up, I will try and look and find some, I guess there have been a few riots in London the past few years so there are alot of pictures from different riots.


----------



## Tank

Colin said:


> Tanks our expert on the ground from 8,000 miles away. Fucking moron!


I live in the city of the Watts and Rodney King riots.


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> So young people are unhappy in England?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've said earlier in the thread, these kids see no future. They mainly come from families where welfare is their way of life. They come from parents who have never worked, grandparents who never worked, they have their rent paid, their vacations paid, their bills paid, everything is provided for them. They have no concept of work. And they resent people who do work. Is that their fault? Not entirely. It is decades of liberal policies in action that led them here. It is decades of either leaving school with no qualifications or university and these kids don't see the opportunity of university.
> 
> They claim they're 'showing the rich what they can do' and yet the people they have hurt the most are those on minimum wage. They haven't 'shown the rich', they have hurt their own.... they are little thugs who have no sense of responsibility because no one has ever held them accountable for their actions. They commit crime, they get a slap on the wrist and rewarded with new stuff - because they might feel excluded because they don't cannot afford designer clothes or shoes.... so they get given designer label clothes and shoes. And they commit more crime.... and they get a slap on the wrist again and more free stuff.
> 
> Liberal Britain. Learn about it - because if the Democrats have their way, this is what we will become.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or just maybe they resent the royal weddings and excessive spending of the upper classes while they can find no work.
> 
> Of course, that's probably the result of liberalism, too.
Click to expand...


Yea, maybe.... except I'm basing my comments on reality instead of making shit up. That's the result of a decent education.


----------



## Modbert

Reports of disturbances in Manchester.

The Guardian has a nice map up of all the verified incidents both overall and recent.

UK riots: every verified incident - interactive map | News | guardian.co.uk


----------



## High_Gravity

Heres a couple pics from the riots, seems like a pretty diverse crowd to me, not all black.


----------



## Tank

If blacks were meant to live in a civil society, they would have created one.


----------



## High_Gravity

Tank said:


> If blacks were meant to live in a civil society, they would have created one.



We have.


----------



## Tank

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQksa-KSV4Y]&#x202a;London Street Battles: Video of mad clashes, riots out of control&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Tank

High_Gravity said:


> Heres a couple pics from the riots, seems like a pretty diverse crowd to me, not all black.



You choose the pics of Middle Eastern Muslims.


----------



## Tank

High_Gravity said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> If blacks were meant to live in a civil society, they would have created one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have.
Click to expand...

Wheres that at?


----------



## Wicked Jester

California Girl said:


> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, their parents are not necessarily 'liberals'.... I suspect that most of their parents couldn't tell you who the Prime Minister is. They are - probably - completely disengaged in the political system. It's not about liberals, Ravi... it is about the result of liberal policies. Please try and learn the difference.
> 
> 
> 
> Must spread..... Absolutely right! Had these kids been taught a work ethic in stead of entitlement, had they been spanked when they broke the rules when they were 5, had they been taught how great their country is, in stead of how much their country owes them, there would be no rioting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now, that's another interesting thing about the UK. They seem to have very little pride in their country, despite their impressive history, they seem embarrassed by it. I find that odd.
Click to expand...

And that is exactly what is happening in this great country.......We have a president and many other liberal politicians who constantly demonize this country. We have a public school system run by the liberal elite who teach that this country is the great evil. Textbooks now are filled with hogwash filled liberal revisionist history that further demonizes this country........Modern day liberalism is the greatest threat to this country. Obviously it's now sadly become GB's greatest threat also.


----------



## High_Gravity

Tank said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> If blacks were meant to live in a civil society, they would have created one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wheres that at?
Click to expand...


The United States of America.


----------



## High_Gravity

Tank said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Heres a couple pics from the riots, seems like a pretty diverse crowd to me, not all black.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You choose the pics of Middle Eastern Muslims.
Click to expand...


Doesn't look like all Muslims to me, there was some whites and blacks in there as well.


----------



## Tank

High_Gravity said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have.
> 
> 
> 
> Wheres that at?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The United States of America.
Click to expand...


----------



## High_Gravity

Tank said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wheres that at?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United States of America.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Mr Natural

Summer's here and the time is right for fighting in the streets, boy!


----------



## Ravi

Those people are nuts. I have never seen so much destruction caused by rioters.


----------



## High_Gravity

Ravi said:


> Those people are nuts. I have never seen so much destruction caused by rioters.



Its even worse in the Middle East in places like Syria, Yemen and Libya.


----------



## English Dave

At least one of those photos posted by High Gravity show people caught up in the riots,
rather than rioters themselves. It has kicked off only a few miles from me in Salford. There
are indeed white rioters there. Copycat white trash sadly. Someone else mentioned that
English people don't seem to have pride in their country. I am old enough at 58 to remember
a very different England that I did have pride in. I grew up in an England were all my friend's
father's worked, and were people took a pride in themselves and their country. Sadly, we have been sold out by politicians of all sides for many years. We have been invaded by foreigners who were not wanted by native English people. If we spoke up we were shouted
down as racists. Well, look at my country now, the french laugh at us and call London
Londonistan.


----------



## California Girl

English Dave said:


> At least one of those photos posted by High Gravity show people caught up in the riots,
> rather than rioters themselves. It has kicked off only a few miles from me in Salford. There
> are indeed white rioters there. Copycat white trash sadly. Someone else mentioned that
> English people don't seem to have pride in their country. I am old enough at 58 to remember
> a very different England that I did have pride in. I grew up in an England were all my friend's
> father's worked, and were people took a pride in themselves and their country. Sadly, we have been sold out by politicians of all sides for many years. We have been invaded by foreigners who were not wanted by native English people. If we spoke up we were shouted
> down as racists. Well, look at my country now, the french laugh at us and call London
> Londonistan.



Uncontrolled immigration has, I think, encouraged an upswing in racism which I think is based more on a lost of national identity than on real 'hatred' of minorities. It is the EU that is responsible for this ridiculous situation in the UK.


----------



## Sky Dancer

California Girl said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, what they appear to be mainly is young. Young blacks. Young whites. Mainly male but also some females. But mostly young.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So young people are unhappy in England?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As I've said earlier in the thread, these kids see no future. They mainly come from families where welfare is their way of life. They come from parents who have never worked, grandparents who never worked, they have their rent paid, their vacations paid, their bills paid, everything is provided for them. They have no concept of work. And they resent people who do work. Is that their fault? Not entirely. It is decades of liberal policies in action that led them here. It is decades of either leaving school with no qualifications or university and these kids don't see the opportunity of university.
> 
> They claim they're 'showing the rich what they can do' and yet the people they have hurt the most are those on minimum wage. They haven't 'shown the rich', they have hurt their own.... they are little thugs who have no sense of responsibility because no one has ever held them accountable for their actions. They commit crime, they get a slap on the wrist and rewarded with new stuff - because they might feel excluded because they don't cannot afford designer clothes or shoes.... so they get given designer label clothes and shoes. And they commit more crime.... and they get a slap on the wrist again and more free stuff.
> 
> Liberal Britain. Learn about it - because if the Democrats have their way, this is what we will become.
Click to expand...


You sure are full of broad, sweeping generalities.

The cause of the riots in London is liberalism?  BS


----------



## California Girl

Sky Dancer said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> So young people are unhappy in England?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've said earlier in the thread, these kids see no future. They mainly come from families where welfare is their way of life. They come from parents who have never worked, grandparents who never worked, they have their rent paid, their vacations paid, their bills paid, everything is provided for them. They have no concept of work. And they resent people who do work. Is that their fault? Not entirely. It is decades of liberal policies in action that led them here. It is decades of either leaving school with no qualifications or university and these kids don't see the opportunity of university.
> 
> They claim they're 'showing the rich what they can do' and yet the people they have hurt the most are those on minimum wage. They haven't 'shown the rich', they have hurt their own.... they are little thugs who have no sense of responsibility because no one has ever held them accountable for their actions. They commit crime, they get a slap on the wrist and rewarded with new stuff - because they might feel excluded because they don't cannot afford designer clothes or shoes.... so they get given designer label clothes and shoes. And they commit more crime.... and they get a slap on the wrist again and more free stuff.
> 
> Liberal Britain. Learn about it - because if the Democrats have their way, this is what we will become.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You sure are full of broad, sweeping generalities.
> 
> The cause of the riots in London is liberalism?  BS
Click to expand...


No, sky.... pay attention. I did not say that. I said it was the result of decades of liberal policies. Not liberals themselves or liberalism, but the way government implements liberal ideas as policies. Completely different. 

Also... the riots are across the country - that's England. Not London. Basic geography. Try not to show Americans as not smart enough to know the difference between London, England, Great Britain and the United Kingdom. They are all different things.


----------



## Tank

Ravi said:


> Those people are nuts. I have never seen so much destruction caused by rioters.


You must have missed the Rodney King riot


----------



## Wicked Jester

Sky Dancer said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> So young people are unhappy in England?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've said earlier in the thread, these kids see no future. They mainly come from families where welfare is their way of life. They come from parents who have never worked, grandparents who never worked, they have their rent paid, their vacations paid, their bills paid, everything is provided for them. They have no concept of work. And they resent people who do work. Is that their fault? Not entirely. It is decades of liberal policies in action that led them here. It is decades of either leaving school with no qualifications or university and these kids don't see the opportunity of university.
> 
> They claim they're 'showing the rich what they can do' and yet the people they have hurt the most are those on minimum wage. They haven't 'shown the rich', they have hurt their own.... they are little thugs who have no sense of responsibility because no one has ever held them accountable for their actions. They commit crime, they get a slap on the wrist and rewarded with new stuff - because they might feel excluded because they don't cannot afford designer clothes or shoes.... so they get given designer label clothes and shoes. And they commit more crime.... and they get a slap on the wrist again and more free stuff.
> 
> Liberal Britain. Learn about it - because if the Democrats have their way, this is what we will become.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You sure are full of broad, sweeping generalities.
> 
> The cause of the riots in London is liberalism?  BS
Click to expand...

Do you not understand CG's spot on opinion that it is liberal policies of entitlement that is helping to fuel this lunacy?

Throw in the supposed racism angle of the original cause, and you've got fuel for the fire.

Christ, some people are beyond dense.


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> Those people are nuts. I have never seen so much destruction caused by rioters.



Yea, they truly are. And it is mindless. There is no real reason for it. No cause. Just mass hooliganism. Little bastards.


----------



## dilloduck

English Dave said:


> At least one of those photos posted by High Gravity show people caught up in the riots,
> rather than rioters themselves. It has kicked off only a few miles from me in Salford. There
> are indeed white rioters there. Copycat white trash sadly. Someone else mentioned that
> English people don't seem to have pride in their country. I am old enough at 58 to remember
> a very different England that I did have pride in. I grew up in an England were all my friend's
> father's worked, and were people took a pride in themselves and their country. Sadly, we have been sold out by politicians of all sides for many years. We have been invaded by foreigners who were not wanted by native English people. If we spoke up we were shouted
> down as racists. Well, look at my country now, the french laugh at us and call London
> Londonistan.



America is following closely on your heels. It will be interersting to see what effect firearms has.


----------



## Sky Dancer

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those people are nuts. I have never seen so much destruction caused by rioters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, they truly are. And it is mindless. There is no real reason for it. No cause. Just mass hooliganism. Little bastards.
Click to expand...


They're taking advantage of a bad situation.  I'm concerned.  

How could this happen?


----------



## California Girl

So, on sky news - live - just now... interview with one of these thugs....

'Why are you doing this?'

'For money'

'But why are you out here?'

'To annoy the police'.

That is the mentality of people that they're dealing with. 

Fucking thugs. No reason - just mindless violence and thuggery.


----------



## Sky Dancer

That's the nature of a riot, it's out of control.


----------



## California Girl

Sky Dancer said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those people are nuts. I have never seen so much destruction caused by rioters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, they truly are. And it is mindless. There is no real reason for it. No cause. Just mass hooliganism. Little bastards.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They're taking advantage of a bad situation.  I'm concerned.
> 
> How could this happen?
Click to expand...


There was no 'bad situation'. This is deliberate thuggery and hooliganism, nothing more. Not race, not poverty... just out of control kids.


----------



## waltky

Bobbies gonna be ready for the hooligans tonight...

*Britain braces for new night of riots*
_August 9, 2011, Anticipating another round of rioting, British officials beef up the police presence in London and other cities. After a day of scattered skirmishes between officers and rioters, authorities say they can't guarantee an end to the violence and looting._


> British officials anticipating more riots Tuesday night sharply increased police presence in London and elsewhere to try to control the country's worst uprising in years.  About 16,000 officers, roughly triple the number on duty in London a day earlier, were being deployed to try to accomplish what some observers described as "reclaiming the streets."  Police said they could not guarantee an end to the looting, the burning of shops, or the general destruction of property. The tactics under consideration for controlling unruly crowds reportedly included plastic bullets.  "We have lots of information to suggest that there may be similar disturbances tonight," Cmdr. Simon Foy told the BBC. "That's exactly the reason why the Met [police force] has chosen to now actually really 'up the game' and put a significant number of officers on the streets."
> 
> Local media reported sporadic skirmishes between police and rioters throughout the day Tuesday.  Confrontations between police and rioters were also reported in Manchester and neighboring Salford in northwestern England. In central England, according to news reports, police arrested several people in Birmingham and stopped a group caught torching cars West Bromwich. Looting was reported in Wolverhampton, police said.  Police were investigating the death of a man Tuesday who had been found shot in Croydon.
> 
> By late Tuesday, at least 560 people had been arrested in London, with more than 100 charged. Dozens more were arrested in other cities.  Prime Minister David Cameron -- who cut short a holiday in Italy to deal with the crisis -- recalled Parliament from its summer recess for an emergency debate on the riots and looting that have spread from the deprived London neighborhood of Tottenham to districts across the capital and to Liverpool, Bristol and other cities.  Cameron described the scenes of burning buildings and smashed windows as "sickening," but he refrained from tougher measures such as calling in the military to help police restore order.  "People should be in no doubt that we will do everything necessary to restore order to Britain's streets and to make them safe for the law-abiding," Cameron told reporters after a crisis meeting at his Downing Street office.
> 
> MORE


----------



## English Dave

Someone said there is a sense of entitlement in many of these rioters. This is true, I saw
the early stages of this 30 years ago with Thatchers government. They came to power and
unemployment doubled in less than two years. A representative of her government said
"unemployment is a price worth paying" to sort the country out. Then she destroyed the
mining industry. Many areas never recovered and many people never worked again. The 
children of these people soon learned to play the system. Get pregnant, no partner? Have
a house, rent paid, and money to live on. At the same time we were getting mass
immigration. This is the mix we are now trying to deal with, but how? When this is over, there
will still not be enough jobs.


----------



## Sky Dancer

English Dave said:


> Someone said there is a sense of entitlement in many of these rioters. This is true, I saw
> the early stages of this 30 years ago with Thatchers government. They came to power and
> unemployment doubled in less than two years. A representative of her government said
> "unemployment is a price worth paying" to sort the country out. Then she destroyed the
> mining industry. Many areas never recovered and many people never worked again. The
> children of these people soon learned to play the system. Get pregnant, no partner? Have
> a house, rent paid, and money to live on. At the same time we were getting mass
> immigration. This is the mix we are now trying to deal with, but how? When this is over, there
> will still not be enough jobs.



What an enlightened view.  So, it was the conservatives in Thacker years that caused the problem?

And our redneck friends here in the US want to blame all this on liberals.


----------



## Sky Dancer

California Girl said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, they truly are. And it is mindless. There is no real reason for it. No cause. Just mass hooliganism. Little bastards.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They're taking advantage of a bad situation.  I'm concerned.
> 
> How could this happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was no 'bad situation'. This is deliberate thuggery and hooliganism, nothing more. Not race, not poverty... just out of control kids.
Click to expand...


That's exactly what I said.  A riot is, by nature, out of control.

How is your anger about it going to solve anything?

A riot, is like a fire.  It's nature is to consume.  It has smoke.  It destroys.  Do we get angry at the fire for being hot?


----------



## St.Blues

Sky Dancer said:


> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> Someone said there is a sense of entitlement in many of these rioters. This is true, I saw
> the early stages of this 30 years ago with Thatchers government. They came to power and
> unemployment doubled in less than two years. A representative of her government said
> "unemployment is a price worth paying" to sort the country out. Then she destroyed the
> mining industry. Many areas never recovered and many people never worked again. The
> children of these people soon learned to play the system. Get pregnant, no partner? Have
> a house, rent paid, and money to live on. At the same time we were getting mass
> immigration. This is the mix we are now trying to deal with, but how? When this is over, there
> will still not be enough jobs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an enlightened view.  So, it was the conservatives in Thacker years that caused the problem?
> 
> And our redneck friends here in the US want to blame all this on liberals.
Click to expand...


NO she was attempting to undo what the labour party (liberal)s had done.. It was temporary. Tony Blair is the Fucking Clinton of the totally disastrous entitlement era..
Liberals are wrong in there thinking.. Big business can be regulated as to not screw people over. Its the same liberal who deregulate for big business.
They are fucking cons... The rep aren't much better. Go Tea Party Go!


----------



## English Dave

I've just been watching the TV news. Seems to be quiet in London. This shows how 
smart these people are. They know they are facing overwhelming force, so they are
nowhere to be seen. A few miles from me in Manchester, there are hundreds of people
running the police ragged all over the city centre, breaking shop windows and robbing.
Sheer oportunitist thieves and thugs. These people are both white and black. They don't
care they are damaging their own city. All this for a lousy pair of sneakers and phones.


----------



## California Girl

Sky Dancer said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're taking advantage of a bad situation.  I'm concerned.
> 
> How could this happen?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was no 'bad situation'. This is deliberate thuggery and hooliganism, nothing more. Not race, not poverty... just out of control kids.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's exactly what I said.  A riot is, by nature, out of control.
> 
> How is your anger about it going to solve anything?
> 
> A riot, is like a fire.  It's nature is to consume.  It has smoke.  It destroys.  Do we get angry at the fire for being hot?
Click to expand...


What anger? I have no anger. Could you please stop deciding for me how I feel, it's annoying. Thanks. 

I know perfectly well what a riot is.

This is why people get pissed with you sky, you are one condescending little twit at times.... and I like you... as you know.


----------



## Ravi

Sky Dancer said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> So young people are unhappy in England?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've said earlier in the thread, these kids see no future. They mainly come from families where welfare is their way of life. They come from parents who have never worked, grandparents who never worked, they have their rent paid, their vacations paid, their bills paid, everything is provided for them. They have no concept of work. And they resent people who do work. Is that their fault? Not entirely. It is decades of liberal policies in action that led them here. It is decades of either leaving school with no qualifications or university and these kids don't see the opportunity of university.
> 
> They claim they're 'showing the rich what they can do' and yet the people they have hurt the most are those on minimum wage. They haven't 'shown the rich', they have hurt their own.... they are little thugs who have no sense of responsibility because no one has ever held them accountable for their actions. They commit crime, they get a slap on the wrist and rewarded with new stuff - because they might feel excluded because they don't cannot afford designer clothes or shoes.... so they get given designer label clothes and shoes. And they commit more crime.... and they get a slap on the wrist again and more free stuff.
> 
> Liberal Britain. Learn about it - because if the Democrats have their way, this is what we will become.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You sure are full of broad, sweeping generalities.
> 
> The cause of the riots in London is liberalism?  BS
Click to expand...


Liberals are the new Jews.


----------



## Dude111

www.youtube.com/v/YCS7c__OSBw

Quite impressive..... Good for her!


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> As I've said earlier in the thread, these kids see no future. They mainly come from families where welfare is their way of life. They come from parents who have never worked, grandparents who never worked, they have their rent paid, their vacations paid, their bills paid, everything is provided for them. They have no concept of work. And they resent people who do work. Is that their fault? Not entirely. It is decades of liberal policies in action that led them here. It is decades of either leaving school with no qualifications or university and these kids don't see the opportunity of university.
> 
> They claim they're 'showing the rich what they can do' and yet the people they have hurt the most are those on minimum wage. They haven't 'shown the rich', they have hurt their own.... they are little thugs who have no sense of responsibility because no one has ever held them accountable for their actions. They commit crime, they get a slap on the wrist and rewarded with new stuff - because they might feel excluded because they don't cannot afford designer clothes or shoes.... so they get given designer label clothes and shoes. And they commit more crime.... and they get a slap on the wrist again and more free stuff.
> 
> Liberal Britain. Learn about it - because if the Democrats have their way, this is what we will become.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You sure are full of broad, sweeping generalities.
> 
> The cause of the riots in London is liberalism?  BS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Liberals are the new Jews.
Click to expand...


Who slaughtered 6 million liberals just for being liberal? Anyone? No. 

Ravi, that is fucking disrespectful to the millions of Jews who were slaughtered by Nazis. The right are not Nazis - no matter how much you wish we were. And liberals have not suffered the historic slaughter that the Jews have. 

Your disrespect and trivializing of the holocaust is disgraceful.


----------



## Ravi

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> You sure are full of broad, sweeping generalities.
> 
> The cause of the riots in London is liberalism?  BS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liberals are the new Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who slaughtered 6 million liberals just for being liberal? Anyone? No.
> 
> Ravi, that is fucking disrespectful to the millions of Jews who were slaughtered by Nazis. The right are not Nazis - no matter how much you wish we were. And liberals have not suffered the historic slaughter that the Jews have.
> 
> Your disrespect and trivializing of the holocaust is disgraceful.
Click to expand...




I'm talking about the tendency of many to blame all woes on the Jews. 

Go look in the mirror with your stupid blame the liberals bullshit.


----------



## Ernie S.

Sky Dancer said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're taking advantage of a bad situation.  I'm concerned.
> 
> How could this happen?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was no 'bad situation'. This is deliberate thuggery and hooliganism, nothing more. Not race, not poverty... just out of control kids.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's exactly what I said.  A riot is, by nature, out of control.
> 
> How is your anger about it going to solve anything?
> 
> A riot, is like a fire.  It's nature is to consume.  It has smoke.  It destroys.  Do we get angry at the fire for being hot?
Click to expand...

Fire lacks the ability to put itself out or to not start in the first place. These are supposedly PEOPLE that are out of control. Excusing their actions by comparing them to a chemical reaction is what caused this situation in the first place. People must take responsibility for their actions and stop excusing bad behavior.


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Liberals are the new Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who slaughtered 6 million liberals just for being liberal? Anyone? No.
> 
> Ravi, that is fucking disrespectful to the millions of Jews who were slaughtered by Nazis. The right are not Nazis - no matter how much you wish we were. And liberals have not suffered the historic slaughter that the Jews have.
> 
> Your disrespect and trivializing of the holocaust is disgraceful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm talking about the tendency of many to blame all woes on the Jews.
> 
> Go look in the mirror with your stupid blame the liberals bullshit.
Click to expand...


I don't need to look in a mirror. I have academic research to substantiate my opinion. I am not blaming liberals. I am blaming policies. Policies are not people - learn the difference. 

However you choose to justify your comment, by comparing the "plight" of liberals (which is actually not reality - it is your fantasy) to the very real suffering and deaths of 6 million innocent people, you mock their suffering. You mock their deaths. You mock history. Personally, I find that akin to racism.


----------



## St.Blues

Ravi said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Liberals are the new Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who slaughtered 6 million liberals just for being liberal? Anyone? No.
> 
> Ravi, that is fucking disrespectful to the millions of Jews who were slaughtered by Nazis. The right are not Nazis - no matter how much you wish we were. And liberals have not suffered the historic slaughter that the Jews have.
> 
> Your disrespect and trivializing of the holocaust is disgraceful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm talking about the tendency of many to blame all woes on the Jews.
> 
> Go look in the mirror with your stupid blame the liberals bullshit.
Click to expand...

_
*This is for Ravi*_.... Just because... I'm not a liberal.
Enjoy the song.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-W-QdyILRY&feature=player_detailpage]&#x202a;George Strait - You Look So Good In Love (live)&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]

Blues


----------



## Ravi

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who slaughtered 6 million liberals just for being liberal? Anyone? No.
> 
> Ravi, that is fucking disrespectful to the millions of Jews who were slaughtered by Nazis. The right are not Nazis - no matter how much you wish we were. And liberals have not suffered the historic slaughter that the Jews have.
> 
> Your disrespect and trivializing of the holocaust is disgraceful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm talking about the tendency of many to blame all woes on the Jews.
> 
> Go look in the mirror with your stupid blame the liberals bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't need to look in a mirror. I have academic research to substantiate my opinion. I am not blaming liberals. I am blaming policies. Policies are not people - learn the difference.
> 
> However you choose to justify your comment, by comparing the "plight" of liberals (which is actually not reality - it is your fantasy) to the very real suffering and deaths of 6 million innocent people, you mock their suffering. You mock their deaths. You mock history. Personally, I find that akin to racism.
Click to expand...

Good for you. I didn't do that, as much as you need to believe that I did. You can blame it all on liberal policies.


----------



## Ernie S.

English Dave said:


> I've just been watching the TV news. Seems to be quiet in London. This shows how
> smart these people are. They know they are facing overwhelming force, so they are
> nowhere to be seen. A few miles from me in Manchester, there are hundreds of people
> running the police ragged all over the city centre, breaking shop windows and robbing.
> Sheer oportunitist thieves and thugs. These people are both white and black. They don't
> care they are damaging their own city. All this for a lousy pair of sneakers and phones.



Love the area. I stayed at a hotel in Bramhall when I was on a service call in Manchester maybe 15 years ago.


----------



## Sky Dancer

Ernie S. said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no 'bad situation'. This is deliberate thuggery and hooliganism, nothing more. Not race, not poverty... just out of control kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's exactly what I said.  A riot is, by nature, out of control.
> 
> How is your anger about it going to solve anything?
> 
> A riot, is like a fire.  It's nature is to consume.  It has smoke.  It destroys.  Do we get angry at the fire for being hot?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fire lacks the ability to put itself out or to not start in the first place. These are supposedly PEOPLE that are out of control. Excusing their actions by comparing them to a chemical reaction is what caused this situation in the first place. People must take responsibility for their actions and stop excusing bad behavior.
Click to expand...



No one is excusing bad behavior.  I'm pointing out, that anger at bad behavior doesn't help.


----------



## California Girl

St.Blues said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who slaughtered 6 million liberals just for being liberal? Anyone? No.
> 
> Ravi, that is fucking disrespectful to the millions of Jews who were slaughtered by Nazis. The right are not Nazis - no matter how much you wish we were. And liberals have not suffered the historic slaughter that the Jews have.
> 
> Your disrespect and trivializing of the holocaust is disgraceful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm talking about the tendency of many to blame all woes on the Jews.
> 
> Go look in the mirror with your stupid blame the liberals bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> *This is for Ravi*_.... Just because... I'm not a liberal.
> Enjoy the song.
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-W-QdyILRY&feature=player_detailpage]&#x202a;George Strait - You Look So Good In Love (live)&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> Blues
Click to expand...


Stop sucking up to Ravi. She won't respect you in the morning. Ravi's a good egg... a tough liberal. I adore her.... I can fight like crap with her and still laugh with her - not at her. But she'll eat you for breakfast. On toast.


----------



## St.Blues

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who slaughtered 6 million liberals just for being liberal? Anyone? No.
> 
> Ravi, that is fucking disrespectful to the millions of Jews who were slaughtered by Nazis. The right are not Nazis - no matter how much you wish we were. And liberals have not suffered the historic slaughter that the Jews have.
> 
> Your disrespect and trivializing of the holocaust is disgraceful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm talking about the tendency of many to blame all woes on the Jews.
> 
> Go look in the mirror with your stupid blame the liberals bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't need to look in a mirror. I have academic research to substantiate my opinion. I am not blaming liberals. I am blaming policies. Policies are not people - learn the difference.
> 
> However you choose to justify your comment, by comparing the "plight" of liberals (which is actually not reality - it is your fantasy) to the very real suffering and deaths of 6 million innocent people, you mock their suffering. You mock their deaths. You mock history. Personally, I find that akin to racism.
Click to expand...


This is for Cali Girl... You hottie conservative you.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbRKfieMsdQ&feature=player_detailpage]&#x202a;Beach boys-Surfin USA&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]

Blues


----------



## Sky Dancer

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> You sure are full of broad, sweeping generalities.
> 
> The cause of the riots in London is liberalism?  BS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liberals are the new Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who slaughtered 6 million liberals just for being liberal? Anyone? No.
> 
> Ravi, that is fucking disrespectful to the millions of Jews who were slaughtered by Nazis. The right are not Nazis - no matter how much you wish we were. And liberals have not suffered the historic slaughter that the Jews have.
> 
> Your disrespect and trivializing of the holocaust is disgraceful.
Click to expand...



You are demonizing liberals.  The Nazi's demonized Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals.

Ravi is making a fair comparison.

Anti-semitism these days is often hidden behind the "liberal" label.


----------



## Sky Dancer

California Girl said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm talking about the tendency of many to blame all woes on the Jews.
> 
> Go look in the mirror with your stupid blame the liberals bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> _
> *This is for Ravi*_.... Just because... I'm not a liberal.
> Enjoy the song.
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-W-QdyILRY&feature=player_detailpage]&#x202a;George Strait - You Look So Good In Love (live)&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> Blues
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stop sucking up to Ravi. She won't respect you in the morning. Ravi's a good egg... a tough liberal. I adore her.... I can fight like crap with her and still laugh with her - not at her. But she'll eat you for breakfast. On toast.
Click to expand...



You treat St Blues like shit and he still thinks you're a hottie.


----------



## California Girl

Sky Dancer said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Liberals are the new Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who slaughtered 6 million liberals just for being liberal? Anyone? No.
> 
> Ravi, that is fucking disrespectful to the millions of Jews who were slaughtered by Nazis. The right are not Nazis - no matter how much you wish we were. And liberals have not suffered the historic slaughter that the Jews have.
> 
> Your disrespect and trivializing of the holocaust is disgraceful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are demonizing liberals.  The Nazi's demonized Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals.
> 
> Ravi is making a fair comparison.
Click to expand...


I am not demonizing anyone. Could you knock off the drama queen shit? It's ridiculous.

And, on the day that there are death camps for liberals, it'll be a fair comparison. Until then, it is trivializing the suffering of Jews. Get over your victimhood. No one hates you. And I certainly don't hate Ravi.


----------



## California Girl

Sky Dancer said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> _
> *This is for Ravi*_.... Just because... I'm not a liberal.
> Enjoy the song.
> 
> &#x202a;George Strait - You Look So Good In Love (live)&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube
> 
> Blues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop sucking up to Ravi. She won't respect you in the morning. Ravi's a good egg... a tough liberal. I adore her.... I can fight like crap with her and still laugh with her - not at her. But she'll eat you for breakfast. On toast.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You treat St Blues like shit and he still thinks you're a hottie.
Click to expand...


Does he? 

I've never seen him say that about me.


----------



## Ravi

Sky Dancer said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Liberals are the new Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who slaughtered 6 million liberals just for being liberal? Anyone? No.
> 
> Ravi, that is fucking disrespectful to the millions of Jews who were slaughtered by Nazis. The right are not Nazis - no matter how much you wish we were. And liberals have not suffered the historic slaughter that the Jews have.
> 
> Your disrespect and trivializing of the holocaust is disgraceful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are demonizing liberals.  The Nazi's demonized Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals.
> 
> Ravi is making a fair comparison.
> 
> Anti-semitism these days is often hidden behind the "liberal" label.
Click to expand...


I wasn't even talking about the Nazis, though of course they did.

She's been blaming liberals all throughout this thread, much in the same way people throughout history have blamed the Jews.

It is just stupidity, IMO.


----------



## St.Blues

California Girl said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who slaughtered 6 million liberals just for being liberal? Anyone? No.
> 
> Ravi, that is fucking disrespectful to the millions of Jews who were slaughtered by Nazis. The right are not Nazis - no matter how much you wish we were. And liberals have not suffered the historic slaughter that the Jews have.
> 
> Your disrespect and trivializing of the holocaust is disgraceful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are demonizing liberals.  The Nazi's demonized Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals.
> 
> Ravi is making a fair comparison.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not demonizing anyone. Could you knock off the drama queen shit? It's ridiculous.
> 
> And, on the day that there are death camps for liberals, it'll be a fair comparison. Until then, it is trivializing the suffering of Jews. Get over your victimhood. No one hates you. And I certainly don't hate Ravi.
Click to expand...


This for the three of you. Ravi, Cal Girl and Sky...... Calm down ladies.

EJ is having a bad hair day.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoOhnrjdYOc&feature=player_detailpage]&#x202a;Elton John - Candle In The Wind&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]

Blues


----------



## Ravi

btw, blueboy, don't pm me anymore.


----------



## Sky Dancer

Ravi said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who slaughtered 6 million liberals just for being liberal? Anyone? No.
> 
> Ravi, that is fucking disrespectful to the millions of Jews who were slaughtered by Nazis. The right are not Nazis - no matter how much you wish we were. And liberals have not suffered the historic slaughter that the Jews have.
> 
> Your disrespect and trivializing of the holocaust is disgraceful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are demonizing liberals.  The Nazi's demonized Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals.
> 
> Ravi is making a fair comparison.
> 
> Anti-semitism these days is often hidden behind the "liberal" label.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wasn't even talking about the Nazis, though of course they did.
> 
> She's been blaming liberals all throughout this thread, much in the same way people throughout history have blamed the Jews.
> 
> It is just stupidity, IMO.
Click to expand...


Yes, it is stupidity.  She's got a real "jones" for liberals.


----------



## Dr Grump

Anybody posted this yet...seems apt...Good song too!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCw9_avTlYs]&#x202a;The Clash - Londons Burning&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Valerie

Ravi said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who slaughtered 6 million liberals just for being liberal? Anyone? No.
> 
> Ravi, that is fucking disrespectful to the millions of Jews who were slaughtered by Nazis. The right are not Nazis - no matter how much you wish we were. And liberals have not suffered the historic slaughter that the Jews have.
> 
> Your disrespect and trivializing of the holocaust is disgraceful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are demonizing liberals.  The Nazi's demonized Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals.
> 
> Ravi is making a fair comparison.
> 
> Anti-semitism these days is often hidden behind the "liberal" label.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wasn't even talking about the Nazis, though of course they did.
> 
> She's been blaming liberals all throughout this thread, much in the same way people throughout history have blamed the Jews.
> 
> It is just stupidity, IMO.
Click to expand...





Actually, Ravi...  I'm pretty sure those riots over there are all YOUR fault.


----------



## St.Blues

Ravi said:


> btw, blueboy, don't pm me anymore.



You have serious issues Ravi.. Get some help. By the way. I bet some serious money you look nothing like your avatar.. Anyone as arrogant, stubborn and liberal as you couldn't possibly be nice looking. I tried to befriend you earlier.. You may go fuck yourself now.
Also on a last note: Change my Blue back as it was.. The fucking Joke is over you miserable bitch.

Blues


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who slaughtered 6 million liberals just for being liberal? Anyone? No.
> 
> Ravi, that is fucking disrespectful to the millions of Jews who were slaughtered by Nazis. The right are not Nazis - no matter how much you wish we were. And liberals have not suffered the historic slaughter that the Jews have.
> 
> Your disrespect and trivializing of the holocaust is disgraceful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are demonizing liberals.  The Nazi's demonized Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals.
> 
> Ravi is making a fair comparison.
> 
> Anti-semitism these days is often hidden behind the "liberal" label.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wasn't even talking about the Nazis, though of course they did.
> 
> She's been blaming liberals all throughout this thread, much in the same way people throughout history have blamed the Jews.
> 
> It is just stupidity, IMO.
Click to expand...


Nope, I have not once blamed liberals. I have blamed liberal policies... because liberal policies are at the heart of EU policies.... and this is the outcome. That is not blaming liberals.... but it is blaming their policies.


----------



## Sky Dancer

California Girl said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop sucking up to Ravi. She won't respect you in the morning. Ravi's a good egg... a tough liberal. I adore her.... I can fight like crap with her and still laugh with her - not at her. But she'll eat you for breakfast. On toast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You treat St Blues like shit and he still thinks you're a hottie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does he?
> 
> I've never seen him say that about me.
Click to expand...


You must not be reading this thread.  He called you a hottie and dedicated a song to you.

True love.


----------



## St.Blues

Sky Dancer said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are demonizing liberals.  The Nazi's demonized Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals.
> 
> Ravi is making a fair comparison.
> 
> Anti-semitism these days is often hidden behind the "liberal" label.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't even talking about the Nazis, though of course they did.
> 
> She's been blaming liberals all throughout this thread, much in the same way people throughout history have blamed the Jews.
> 
> It is just stupidity, IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it is stupidity.  She's got a real "jones" for liberals.
Click to expand...


Ravi's a Rachel Maddow..... Fuck her.


----------



## Valerie

St.Blues said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't even talking about the Nazis, though of course they did.
> 
> She's been blaming liberals all throughout this thread, much in the same way people throughout history have blamed the Jews.
> 
> It is just stupidity, IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is stupidity.  She's got a real "jones" for liberals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She's a Rachel Maddow..... Fuck her.
Click to expand...





How 'bout fuck YOU...?


----------



## St.Blues

Sky Dancer said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> You treat St Blues like shit and he still thinks you're a hottie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does he?
> 
> I've never seen him say that about me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You must not be reading this thread.  He called you a hottie and dedicated a song to you.
> 
> True love.
Click to expand...


I have sent/posted you Cali Girl more than my share of goodness.. You have ignored me. Its okay..

Blues


----------



## LordBrownTrout

Blagger said:


> The rioters are mostly black. I'm not opening the windows to take any pictures, everything you need for confirmation is on the BBC News website, including footage of mostly black looters. Petitions are being circulated by the public demanding that the army are sent in to quell the violence.
> 
> All you need is here:
> 
> Thieving ***** Nicking Anything That Isn't Nailed Down - BBC




I like your url heading.  I sure hope we don't devolve into such pathetic behavior.


----------



## St.Blues

Valerie said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is stupidity.  She's got a real "jones" for liberals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She's a Rachel Maddow..... Fuck her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How 'bout fuck YOU...?
Click to expand...


Sorry about the post Val.. I meant it for Ravi... Look again.

Blues


----------



## Valerie

St.Blues said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> She's a Rachel Maddow..... Fuck her.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How 'bout fuck YOU...?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry about the post Val.. I meant it for Ravi... Look again.
> 
> Blues
Click to expand...




No shit.


----------



## St.Blues

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are demonizing liberals.  The Nazi's demonized Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals.
> 
> Ravi is making a fair comparison.
> 
> Anti-semitism these days is often hidden behind the "liberal" label.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't even talking about the Nazis, though of course they did.
> 
> She's been blaming liberals all throughout this thread, much in the same way people throughout history have blamed the Jews.
> 
> It is just stupidity, IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope, I have not once blamed liberals. I have blamed liberal policies... because liberal policies are at the heart of EU policies.... and this is the outcome. That is not blaming liberals.... but it is blaming their policies.
Click to expand...


Try this one Cal Girl... Hope you like it!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qH4qyi1-Ys&feature=player_detailpage]&#x202a;Rascal Flatts - What Hurts The Most&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]
listen.

Blues


----------



## St.Blues

Valerie said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> 
> How 'bout fuck YOU...?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry about the post Val.. I meant it for Ravi... Look again.
> 
> Blues
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No shit.
Click to expand...


Cool... I love it when you say No Shit to me!


----------



## Dr Grump

It St Blues yet another iteration of Conjob....??


----------



## California Girl

Dr Grump said:


> It St Blues yet another iteration of Conjob....??





Damn, I hope not.... but now that you mention it.... maybe.


----------



## St.Blues

Dr Grump said:


> It St Blues yet another iteration of Conjob....??



Com'on Grump... I thought we got past our difference's. Be nice.. I will be as well.

Blues


----------



## Wicked Jester

St.Blues said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't even talking about the Nazis, though of course they did.
> 
> She's been blaming liberals all throughout this thread, much in the same way people throughout history have blamed the Jews.
> 
> It is just stupidity, IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is stupidity.  She's got a real "jones" for liberals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ravi's a Rachel Maddow..... Fuck her.
Click to expand...

Naaaaaaaah, Maddow at least works for a living. And isn't embroiled in a massive personal search to figure out who the daddy's are.


----------



## St.Blues

California Girl said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> It St Blues yet another iteration of Conjob....??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Damn, I hope not.... but now that you mention it.... maybe.
Click to expand...


NO... Cut it out and try being nice will ya?


----------



## California Girl

So.... back to the riots.... London seems quieter.

But Liverpool is having riots.

A police officer has been shot at - in Wolverhampton I think (where the fuck is Wolverhampton)

Birmingham seems to have problems.


----------



## syrenn

alexa said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I work with people like you - social scientists. You guys are responsible for this shit. Your dumbassed 'research' and stupid 'research based conclusions' about handing people something for nothing is what brought this situation to fruition. I hope you're proud of yourselves.
> 
> Want to know why these kids have no hope? Because people like you took it away from them. You created the hand out system that has, for generations, destroyed the fabric of Britain's society. You taught the parents and grandparents of these kids that they didn't have to work. You taught them that society owes them everything. You hand them homes, and money, and vacations, and goods, and services.... and you took away the single most valuable thing to human beings - self respect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what exactly do you do?  Have you not noticed that what I am saying is exactly the opposite of what you are claiming.
> 
> People need the opportunity to succeed.  When you have situations as have grown in gang areas in London and elsewhere where these have basically taken over the socialisation process, you clearly need different input to give the kids a chance to reach something new.
> 
> We did not have those kind of gangs when I lived in London -left '88 and at that time we were far more into having socialist values. These gangs should have been nipped in the bud when they arose, not just left for the community to live on welfare and criminal activity s.  If anything the problems come from Thatcherite ideas like there is no society or Friedman beliefs that we are all little isolated Robinson Crusoe's who care only for ourselves which is basically a psychopathic view as it believes people are totally without empathy.
> 
> Well tough luck because it is generally accepted here that after this is sorted out there is a need to address the issues.
Click to expand...


since you quoted me i will answer...

No amount of money and or programs will EVER fix the institutionalized entitlement mentality. It has become a way of life that is enough to get them by. 

If there were no monies or programs... they would either starve and die...or get off their ass's and do something with their lives to make their situation in life a bit better. 

the HAVE the opportunity to seceded.... its called sucking it up... playing withing the rules... acting and speaking in a fashion that will allow you to get ahead..and getting an education or learning a skill. 

If you want to give them a new socialization... something different... a way to get out of their situation..... how about the military? You know the good old fashioned way. 

I must chuckle about your last statement..... how have those liberal programs been working out so far? Not so good i would have to say.


----------



## California Girl

St.Blues said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> It St Blues yet another iteration of Conjob....??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Damn, I hope not.... but now that you mention it.... maybe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> NO... Cut it out and try being nice will ya?
Click to expand...


Nice?

Me?

Not sure I know that word.


----------



## St.Blues

Wicked Jester said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is stupidity.  She's got a real "jones" for liberals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi's a Rachel Maddow..... Fuck her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Naaaaaaaah, Maddow at least works for a living. And isn't embroiled in a massive personal search to figure out who the daddy's are.
Click to expand...


That makes sense... I like it.

Blues


----------



## St.Blues

California Girl said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Damn, I hope not.... but now that you mention it.... maybe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NO... Cut it out and try being nice will ya?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice?
> 
> Me?
> 
> Not sure I know that word.
Click to expand...


Okay, How about civil?

Blues


----------



## syrenn

alexa said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> what exactly do you do?  Have you not noticed that what I am saying is exactly the opposite of what you are claiming.
> 
> People need the opportunity to succeed.  When you have situations as have grown in gang areas in London and elsewhere where these have basically taken over the socialisation process, you clearly need different input to give the kids a chance to reach something new.
> 
> We did not have those kind of gangs when I lived in London -left '88 and at that time we were far more into having socialist values. These gangs should have been nipped in the bud when they arose, not just left for the community to live on welfare and criminal activity s.  If anything the problems come from Thatcherite ideas like there is no society or Friedman beliefs that we are all little isolated Robinson Crusoe's who care only for ourselves which is basically a psychopathic view as it believes people are totally without empathy.
> 
> Well tough luck because it is generally accepted here that after this is sorted out there is a need to address the issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit! Perhaps it has escaped your notice that the rioting and looting is no longer confined to the inner city ghettoes. It has now expanded to the more affluent leafy suburbs and yes, we sure do need to address the issues...starting with the likes of the bleeding hearts who are so quick to find excuses for these scum and who are a root cause of the breakdown of discipline in this country. First lesson...wanna riot and loot on our streets? *Expect to get your head cracked.* And when caught. Give them five years inside with no remission.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wish you guys would stop distorting what I am saying.  I am not now and never have supported the rioting though it is just as bad wherever it happens.
> 
> I am not going to repeat what I said because anyone with any intelligence and openness will be able to see.  I hope you are not like GHook wanting my head cracked..
Click to expand...


No, but you support the programs that got it to this point..... the dole.


----------



## Sky Dancer

syrenn said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what exactly do you do?  Have you not noticed that what I am saying is exactly the opposite of what you are claiming.
> 
> People need the opportunity to succeed.  When you have situations as have grown in gang areas in London and elsewhere where these have basically taken over the socialisation process, you clearly need different input to give the kids a chance to reach something new.
> 
> We did not have those kind of gangs when I lived in London -left '88 and at that time we were far more into having socialist values. These gangs should have been nipped in the bud when they arose, not just left for the community to live on welfare and criminal activity s.  If anything the problems come from Thatcherite ideas like there is no society or Friedman beliefs that we are all little isolated Robinson Crusoe's who care only for ourselves which is basically a psychopathic view as it believes people are totally without empathy.
> 
> Well tough luck because it is generally accepted here that after this is sorted out there is a need to address the issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> since you quoted me i will answer...
> 
> No amount of money and or programs will EVER fix the institutionalized entitlement mentality. It has become a way of life that is enough to get them by.
> 
> If there were no monies or programs... they would either starve and die...or get off their ass's and do something with their lives to make their situation in life a bit better.
> 
> the HAVE the opportunity to seceded.... its called sucking it up... playing withing the rules... acting and speaking in a fashion that will allow you to get ahead..and getting an education or learning a skill.
> 
> If you want to give them a new socialization... something different... a way to get out of their situation..... how about the military? You know the good old fashioned way.
> 
> I must chuckle about your last statement..... how have those liberal programs been working out so far? Not so good i would have to say.
Click to expand...

BS.

Would you rather live in a Third World Country?  I don't.  Yeah, punish the poor.

Wake up.  The economy is in the toliet and poor people feel it the most.

Right.  Your solution?  Let them kill themselves in war.

This has to be the lamest anti-liberal rant I've seen you do to date.


----------



## St.Blues

Sky Dancer said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> what exactly do you do?  Have you not noticed that what I am saying is exactly the opposite of what you are claiming.
> 
> People need the opportunity to succeed.  When you have situations as have grown in gang areas in London and elsewhere where these have basically taken over the socialisation process, you clearly need different input to give the kids a chance to reach something new.
> 
> We did not have those kind of gangs when I lived in London -left '88 and at that time we were far more into having socialist values. These gangs should have been nipped in the bud when they arose, not just left for the community to live on welfare and criminal activity s.  If anything the problems come from Thatcherite ideas like there is no society or Friedman beliefs that we are all little isolated Robinson Crusoe's who care only for ourselves which is basically a psychopathic view as it believes people are totally without empathy.
> 
> Well tough luck because it is generally accepted here that after this is sorted out there is a need to address the issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> since you quoted me i will answer...
> 
> No amount of money and or programs will EVER fix the institutionalized entitlement mentality. It has become a way of life that is enough to get them by.
> 
> If there were no monies or programs... they would either starve and die...or get off their ass's and do something with their lives to make their situation in life a bit better.
> 
> the HAVE the opportunity to seceded.... its called sucking it up... playing withing the rules... acting and speaking in a fashion that will allow you to get ahead..and getting an education or learning a skill.
> 
> If you want to give them a new socialization... something different... a way to get out of their situation..... how about the military? You know the good old fashioned way.
> 
> I must chuckle about your last statement..... how have those liberal programs been working out so far? Not so good i would have to say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BS.
> 
> Would you rather live in a Third World Country.  Yeah, punish the poor.
> 
> Wake up.  The economy is in the toliet and poor people feel the most.
Click to expand...


No they don't.. They get their checks one way or the other, They're pissed because they're either getting less or not getting more. Fuck them, the lazy dirty prolific pricks.

Blues


----------



## St.Blues

syrenn said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit! Perhaps it has escaped your notice that the rioting and looting is no longer confined to the inner city ghettoes. It has now expanded to the more affluent leafy suburbs and yes, we sure do need to address the issues...starting with the likes of the bleeding hearts who are so quick to find excuses for these scum and who are a root cause of the breakdown of discipline in this country. First lesson...wanna riot and loot on our streets? *Expect to get your head cracked.* And when caught. Give them five years inside with no remission.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wish you guys would stop distorting what I am saying.  I am not now and never have supported the rioting though it is just as bad wherever it happens.
> 
> I am not going to repeat what I said because anyone with any intelligence and openness will be able to see.  I hope you are not like GHook wanting my head cracked..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, but you support the programs that got it to this point..... the dole.
Click to expand...


We have been inundated with illegals because these lazy bastard won't work.. Their IQ's are around 80 and they want desk jobs a free lunch and dinner and a ride home.

Fuck them again.

Blues


----------



## syrenn

Dr Grump said:


> It St Blues yet another iteration of Conjob....??





No.


----------



## Sky Dancer

St.Blues said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> since you quoted me i will answer...
> 
> No amount of money and or programs will EVER fix the institutionalized entitlement mentality. It has become a way of life that is enough to get them by.
> 
> If there were no monies or programs... they would either starve and die...or get off their ass's and do something with their lives to make their situation in life a bit better.
> 
> the HAVE the opportunity to seceded.... its called sucking it up... playing withing the rules... acting and speaking in a fashion that will allow you to get ahead..and getting an education or learning a skill.
> 
> If you want to give them a new socialization... something different... a way to get out of their situation..... how about the military? You know the good old fashioned way.
> 
> I must chuckle about your last statement..... how have those liberal programs been working out so far? Not so good i would have to say.
> 
> 
> 
> BS.
> 
> Would you rather live in a Third World Country.  Yeah, punish the poor.
> 
> Wake up.  The economy is in the toliet and poor people feel the most.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No they don't.. They get their checks one way or the other, They're pissed because they're either getting less or not getting more. Fuck them, the lazy dirty prolific pricks.
> 
> Blues
Click to expand...


Go live in a Third World country, asshole.  You want to punish the poor?  How about returning to slavery?

There aren't any jobs, jerk.

We have 20% unemployment in my country.  Without UI and food stamps a lot of people go hungry.

I guess you'd like that.  Let children starve.


----------



## St.Blues

If I had to pick a chick in here with a good sense of reality it would be syrenn..... She can be a pain in the butt but who gives a shit at least she's foxy.. You know fair and balanced.

Blues


----------



## syrenn

California Girl said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> It St Blues yet another iteration of Conjob....??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Damn, I hope not.... but now that you mention it.... maybe.
Click to expand...


As far as i am concerned.....and for me to say this it should hold some weight.

St blues is NOT conjob the brainless.


----------



## Sky Dancer

St.Blues said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wish you guys would stop distorting what I am saying.  I am not now and never have supported the rioting though it is just as bad wherever it happens.
> 
> I am not going to repeat what I said because anyone with any intelligence and openness will be able to see.  I hope you are not like GHook wanting my head cracked..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, but you support the programs that got it to this point..... the dole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We have been inundated with illegals because these lazy bastard won't work.. Their IQ's are around 80 and they want desk jobs a free lunch and dinner and a ride home.
> 
> Fuck them again.
> 
> Blues
Click to expand...


How do you know what anyones IQ is you stupid jerk?

Do you work?  If you do, STFU.  Alot of people have no jobs, and they WANT TO WORK.


----------



## California Girl

Sky Dancer said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> BS.
> 
> Would you rather live in a Third World Country.  Yeah, punish the poor.
> 
> Wake up.  The economy is in the toliet and poor people feel the most.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No they don't.. They get their checks one way or the other, They're pissed because they're either getting less or not getting more. Fuck them, the lazy dirty prolific pricks.
> 
> Blues
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Go live in a Third World country, asshole.  You want to punish the poor?  How about returning to slavery?
> 
> There aren't any jobs, jerk.
> 
> We have 20% unemployment in my country.  Without UI and food stamps a lot of people go hungry.
> 
> I guess you'd like that.  Let children starve.
Click to expand...


And you think the UK isn't struggling with high unemployment? These little brats have thrown hundreds of hard working ordinary Brits out of work. 

I'd be quite happy to let those little brats starve.


----------



## Valerie

Sky Dancer said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> BS.
> 
> Would you rather live in a Third World Country.  Yeah, punish the poor.
> 
> Wake up.  The economy is in the toliet and poor people feel the most.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No they don't.. They get their checks one way or the other, They're pissed because they're either getting less or not getting more. Fuck them, the lazy dirty prolific pricks.
> 
> Blues
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Go live in a Third World country, asshole.  You want to punish the poor?  How about returning to slavery?
> 
> There aren't any jobs, jerk.
> 
> *We have 20% unemployment in my country*.  Without UI and food stamps a lot of people go hungry.
> 
> I guess you'd like that.  Let children starve.
Click to expand...





What country is that...???


----------



## California Girl

syrenn said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> It St Blues yet another iteration of Conjob....??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Damn, I hope not.... but now that you mention it.... maybe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As far as i am concerned.....and for me to say this it should hold some weight.
> 
> St blues is NOT conjob the brainless.
Click to expand...


You know I trust you.... so I'm prepared to go with that. He's good as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## St.Blues

Sky Dancer said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> BS.
> 
> Would you rather live in a Third World Country.  Yeah, punish the poor.
> 
> Wake up.  The economy is in the toliet and poor people feel the most.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No they don't.. They get their checks one way or the other, They're pissed because they're either getting less or not getting more. Fuck them, the lazy dirty prolific pricks.
> 
> Blues
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Go live in a Third World country, asshole.  You want to punish the poor?  How about returning to slavery?
> 
> There aren't any jobs, jerk.
> 
> We have 20% unemployment in my country.  Without UI and food stamps a lot of people go hungry.
> 
> I guess you'd like that.  Let children starve.
Click to expand...


Sky, I understand Charity.. I have helped many.
I do not believe in welfare for a lifetime of do nothings which of we have millions here.
Its sickening and millions of us are fed up with it.

Like I said... Fuck them.

Blues


----------



## Sky Dancer

St.Blues said:


> If I had to pick a chick in here with a good sense of reality it would be syrenn..... She can be a pain in the butt but who gives a shit at least she's foxy.. You know fair and balanced.
> 
> Blues



You won't like me then.  I'm a lesbian AND a liberal.  Your favorite kind of person.


----------



## Sky Dancer

St.Blues said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> No they don't.. They get their checks one way or the other, They're pissed because they're either getting less or not getting more. Fuck them, the lazy dirty prolific pricks.
> 
> Blues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go live in a Third World country, asshole.  You want to punish the poor?  How about returning to slavery?
> 
> There aren't any jobs, jerk.
> 
> We have 20% unemployment in my country.  Without UI and food stamps a lot of people go hungry.
> 
> I guess you'd like that.  Let children starve.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sky, I understand Charity.. I have helped many.
> I do not believe in welfare for a lifetime of do nothings which of we have millions here.
> Its sickening and millions of us are fed up with it.
> 
> Like I said... Fuck them.
> 
> Blues
Click to expand...



That is complete bullshit.  I've worked with poor people all over the world my whole life.

You don't know what you're talking about.

I'm sick and tired of seeing poor people get bashed by conservatives.  The party of the rich.

What do you propose we do with poor people?  Punish them for being born?

We are talking about children, mothers, elderly and disabled.  We are talking about UI and food stamps for unemployed people who have lost jobs because some rich dude wants to pay 50 cents a hour in India instead of employing workers here.


----------



## St.Blues

syrenn said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> It St Blues yet another iteration of Conjob....??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Damn, I hope not.... but now that you mention it.... maybe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As far as i am concerned.....and for me to say this it should hold some weight.
> 
> St blues is NOT conjob the brainless.
Click to expand...


Thanks love.. You're simply the best!

Blues


----------



## syrenn

Sky Dancer said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> what exactly do you do?  Have you not noticed that what I am saying is exactly the opposite of what you are claiming.
> 
> People need the opportunity to succeed.  When you have situations as have grown in gang areas in London and elsewhere where these have basically taken over the socialisation process, you clearly need different input to give the kids a chance to reach something new.
> 
> We did not have those kind of gangs when I lived in London -left '88 and at that time we were far more into having socialist values. These gangs should have been nipped in the bud when they arose, not just left for the community to live on welfare and criminal activity s.  If anything the problems come from Thatcherite ideas like there is no society or Friedman beliefs that we are all little isolated Robinson Crusoe's who care only for ourselves which is basically a psychopathic view as it believes people are totally without empathy.
> 
> Well tough luck because it is generally accepted here that after this is sorted out there is a need to address the issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> since you quoted me i will answer...
> 
> No amount of money and or programs will EVER fix the institutionalized entitlement mentality. It has become a way of life that is enough to get them by.
> 
> If there were no monies or programs... they would either starve and die...or get off their ass's and do something with their lives to make their situation in life a bit better.
> 
> the HAVE the opportunity to seceded.... its called sucking it up... playing withing the rules... acting and speaking in a fashion that will allow you to get ahead..and getting an education or learning a skill.
> 
> If you want to give them a new socialization... something different... a way to get out of their situation..... how about the military? You know the good old fashioned way.
> 
> I must chuckle about your last statement..... how have those liberal programs been working out so far? Not so good i would have to say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BS.
> 
> Would you rather live in a Third World Country?  I don't.  Yeah, punish the poor.
> 
> Wake up.  The economy is in the toliet and poor people feel it the most.
> 
> Right.  Your solution?  Let them kill themselves in war.
> 
> This has to be the lamest anti-liberal rant I've seen you do to date.
Click to expand...



Not BS.... not by a long shot. 

It has nothing to do with "punishing" the poor. Its about personal responsibility.  You want children... damn well be able to feed and house them...or at least TRY to. If you want something more for yourself and your life..... DO something other then sitting on your ass whining about what is not being given to you. 

As to third world countries... i am very sure anyone in a third world country would trade their lives to wealthy life these "poor" do. 

And gang members dont die in gang wars?


----------



## Sky Dancer

Valerie said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> No they don't.. They get their checks one way or the other, They're pissed because they're either getting less or not getting more. Fuck them, the lazy dirty prolific pricks.
> 
> Blues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go live in a Third World country, asshole.  You want to punish the poor?  How about returning to slavery?
> 
> There aren't any jobs, jerk.
> 
> *We have 20% unemployment in my country*.  Without UI and food stamps a lot of people go hungry.
> 
> I guess you'd like that.  Let children starve.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What country is that...???
Click to expand...



Forgive me for making a typo.  That was COUNTY not country.


----------



## St.Blues

Sky Dancer said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I had to pick a chick in here with a good sense of reality it would be syrenn..... She can be a pain in the butt but who gives a shit at least she's foxy.. You know fair and balanced.
> 
> Blues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You won't like me then.  I'm a lesbian AND a liberal.  Your favorite kind of person.
Click to expand...


Sky, I make my own decisions.. Liberal, socially or fiscally? I don't care if you are a lesbian.. I love woman too, we have that in common.

Blues


----------



## syrenn

Sky Dancer said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> BS.
> 
> Would you rather live in a Third World Country.  Yeah, punish the poor.
> 
> Wake up.  The economy is in the toliet and poor people feel the most.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No they don't.. They get their checks one way or the other, They're pissed because they're either getting less or not getting more. Fuck them, the lazy dirty prolific pricks.
> 
> Blues
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Go live in a Third World country, asshole.  You want to punish the poor?  How about returning to slavery?
> 
> There aren't any jobs, jerk.
> 
> We have 20% unemployment in my country.  Without UI and food stamps a lot of people go hungry.
> 
> I guess you'd like that.  Let children starve.
Click to expand...



And when was the last time you heard of mass death due to starvation in the US?  

however.... again..... personal responsibility. If you have children... you should be prepared to feed and house them.


----------



## Sky Dancer

syrenn said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> since you quoted me i will answer...
> 
> No amount of money and or programs will EVER fix the institutionalized entitlement mentality. It has become a way of life that is enough to get them by.
> 
> If there were no monies or programs... they would either starve and die...or get off their ass's and do something with their lives to make their situation in life a bit better.
> 
> the HAVE the opportunity to seceded.... its called sucking it up... playing withing the rules... acting and speaking in a fashion that will allow you to get ahead..and getting an education or learning a skill.
> 
> If you want to give them a new socialization... something different... a way to get out of their situation..... how about the military? You know the good old fashioned way.
> 
> I must chuckle about your last statement..... how have those liberal programs been working out so far? Not so good i would have to say.
> 
> 
> 
> BS.
> 
> Would you rather live in a Third World Country?  I don't.  Yeah, punish the poor.
> 
> Wake up.  The economy is in the toliet and poor people feel it the most.
> 
> Right.  Your solution?  Let them kill themselves in war.
> 
> This has to be the lamest anti-liberal rant I've seen you do to date.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not BS.... not by a long shot.
> 
> It has nothing to do with "punishing" the poor. Its about personal responsibility.  You want children... damn well be able to feed and house them...or at least TRY to. If you want something more for yourself and your life..... DO something other then sitting on your ass whining about what is not being given to you.
> 
> As to third world countries... i am very sure anyone in a third world country would trade their lives to wealthy life these "poor" do.
> 
> And gang members dont die in gang wars?
Click to expand...


You don't know shit about the poor.  If it was up to you, poor people would have NOTHING.  No food stamps, no cash aid, no UI.

Just like in India.  I've been to third world countries.  It's not a pretty picture.  They have no welfare, no charities, no food stamps, no shelters, nothing.

If that's what you want, move there.

Old people in the US freeze to death because they can't afford utilities.  They go hungry, because they have to choose between medicine and food.

In my county, 20% of our population is unemployed.  Without UI and food stamps a lot of people would go hungry.


----------



## syrenn

Sky Dancer said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I had to pick a chick in here with a good sense of reality it would be syrenn..... She can be a pain in the butt but who gives a shit at least she's foxy.. You know fair and balanced.
> 
> Blues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You won't like me then.  I'm a lesbian AND a liberal.  Your favorite kind of person.
Click to expand...


And i don't care .... i still like you. It does not mean we have to agree.


----------



## Sky Dancer

syrenn said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> No they don't.. They get their checks one way or the other, They're pissed because they're either getting less or not getting more. Fuck them, the lazy dirty prolific pricks.
> 
> Blues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go live in a Third World country, asshole.  You want to punish the poor?  How about returning to slavery?
> 
> There aren't any jobs, jerk.
> 
> We have 20% unemployment in my country.  Without UI and food stamps a lot of people go hungry.
> 
> I guess you'd like that.  Let children starve.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And when was the last time you heard of mass death due to starvation in the US?
> 
> however.... again..... personal responsibility. If you have children... you should be prepared to feed and house them.
Click to expand...


Fuck you.  We don't have mass starvation because we have poverty programs.  You propose a return to no poverty programs?  Watch people starve.

Children do not ask to be born.  Your position punishes them.

You want poor people to be punished?  Go to Africa.  Go to Asia.  Enjoy the sight of people starving to death, and then consider, that we, in America are better than that.


----------



## syrenn

Sky Dancer said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Go live in a Third World country, asshole.  You want to punish the poor?  How about returning to slavery?
> 
> There aren't any jobs, jerk.
> 
> We have 20% unemployment in my country.  Without UI and food stamps a lot of people go hungry.
> 
> I guess you'd like that.  Let children starve.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky, I understand Charity.. I have helped many.
> I do not believe in welfare for a lifetime of do nothings which of we have millions here.
> Its sickening and millions of us are fed up with it.
> 
> Like I said... Fuck them.
> 
> Blues
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That is complete bullshit.  I've worked with poor people all over the world my whole life.
> 
> You don't know what you're talking about.
> 
> I'm sick and tired of seeing poor people get bashed by conservatives.  The party of the rich.
> 
> What do you propose we do with poor people?  Punish them for being born?
> 
> We are talking about children, mothers, elderly and disabled.  We are talking about UI and food stamps for unemployed people who have lost jobs because some rich dude wants to pay 50 cents a hour in India instead of employing workers here.
Click to expand...


spay and neuter them....seems to be working great in the feral cat population here in the city. 

How about not having children if you cant feed and house them. How about not giving birth to a child and bring it into a life of poverty. 

Personal responsibility. I know that is a tough concept to understand.


----------



## Colin

Flagwavrusa said:


> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you're right California Girl about 16,000 police tonight. Last night they said a lot of
> the problem is that they haven't got enough police officers who have goy riot training, you
> know, the guys in all the riot gear, if the police don't get on top of this tonight, what next?
> It looks like they're going to throw everything at it they've got. But the rioters can go home
> and rest up in the middle of the night, ready for tomorrow, the police will be there all night.
> They will get exhausted without fresh backup. The rioters will know this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming there are some Britons left who are willing to fight for their country, the police should deputize law-abiding citizens, arm them, and issue orders to shoot looters on sight. An example needs to be made or this mayhem will continue to spread world wide, including here in America.
Click to expand...


How fucking condescending of you and fuck you shit for brains! Plenty of our young men are dying fighting for this country...how dare you assume otherwise! Take your moronic suggestions and shove them as far up your arse as possible. I guess that'll take you all the way into that empty cranium of yours!


----------



## syrenn

St.Blues said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Damn, I hope not.... but now that you mention it.... maybe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as i am concerned.....and for me to say this it should hold some weight.
> 
> St blues is NOT conjob the brainless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks love.. You're simply the best!
> 
> Blues
Click to expand...



You are welcome.... the conjob thing is not something you would ever want to be associated with.


----------



## Sky Dancer

syrenn said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I had to pick a chick in here with a good sense of reality it would be syrenn..... She can be a pain in the butt but who gives a shit at least she's foxy.. You know fair and balanced.
> 
> Blues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You won't like me then.  I'm a lesbian AND a liberal.  Your favorite kind of person.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And i don't care .... i still like you. It does not mean we have to agree.
Click to expand...


We don't agree.  I'm pissed off at you right now.


----------



## Sky Dancer

syrenn said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sky, I understand Charity.. I have helped many.
> I do not believe in welfare for a lifetime of do nothings which of we have millions here.
> Its sickening and millions of us are fed up with it.
> 
> Like I said... Fuck them.
> 
> Blues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is complete bullshit.  I've worked with poor people all over the world my whole life.
> 
> You don't know what you're talking about.
> 
> I'm sick and tired of seeing poor people get bashed by conservatives.  The party of the rich.
> 
> What do you propose we do with poor people?  Punish them for being born?
> 
> We are talking about children, mothers, elderly and disabled.  We are talking about UI and food stamps for unemployed people who have lost jobs because some rich dude wants to pay 50 cents a hour in India instead of employing workers here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> spay and neuter them....seems to be working great in the feral cat population here in the city.
> 
> How about not having children if you cant feed and house them. How about not giving birth to a child and bring it into a life of poverty.
> 
> Personal responsibility. I know that is a tough concept to understand.
Click to expand...



Forced sterilization?  My, you are a Nazi.  Control freak.  

Yeah, let's punish those children for being born.   Abort them.  Abort any child that is born to a poor person.

Let's not let any poor person even have sex, in case they MAY get pregnant.  And let's not let them have any contraception either, not even condoms.

I work with children that you'd like to see go hungry.


----------



## Colin

High_Gravity said:


> Heres a couple pics from the riots, seems like a pretty diverse crowd to me, not all black.



You show facts, but scum like Tank will paint them all black as it suits their agenda of hate and racism.


----------



## syrenn

Sky Dancer said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> BS.
> 
> Would you rather live in a Third World Country?  I don't.  Yeah, punish the poor.
> 
> Wake up.  The economy is in the toliet and poor people feel it the most.
> 
> Right.  Your solution?  Let them kill themselves in war.
> 
> This has to be the lamest anti-liberal rant I've seen you do to date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not BS.... not by a long shot.
> 
> It has nothing to do with "punishing" the poor. Its about personal responsibility.  You want children... damn well be able to feed and house them...or at least TRY to. If you want something more for yourself and your life..... DO something other then sitting on your ass whining about what is not being given to you.
> 
> As to third world countries... i am very sure anyone in a third world country would trade their lives to wealthy life these "poor" do.
> 
> And gang members dont die in gang wars?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't know shit about the poor.  If it was up to you, poor people would have NOTHING.  No food stamps, no cash aid, no UI.
> 
> Just like in India.  I've been to third world countries.  It's not a pretty picture.  They have no welfare, no charities, no food stamps, no shelters, nothing.
> 
> If that's what you want, move there.
> 
> Old people in the US freeze to death because they can't afford utilities.  They go hungry, because they have to choose between medicine and food.
> 
> In my county, 20% of our population is unemployed.  Without UI and food stamps a lot of people would go hungry.
Click to expand...



Forgive me ...but i know plenty about the poor. 

If it was up to me... the requirements for assistance would be_ very strict_. Quite a difference. If you want the assistance... follow the rules. If the rules are to much for you... feel free to not accept it. Rather simple. 


This is FAR from a third world country. So comparing the two is dishonest of you. I am sure anyone in a thrid world country would trade places with the "poor" here... and i would LOVE to see the "poor" here try and eek out a life in a third world country... maybe they would stop complaining about their privileged lives for once. 

Old people are not the healthy young and able....
Old people are not the ones having children they cant afford.


----------



## Ernie S.

Sky Dancer said:


> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's exactly what I said.  A riot is, by nature, out of control.
> 
> How is your anger about it going to solve anything?
> 
> A riot, is like a fire.  It's nature is to consume.  It has smoke.  It destroys.  Do we get angry at the fire for being hot?
> 
> 
> 
> Fire lacks the ability to put itself out or to not start in the first place. These are supposedly PEOPLE that are out of control. Excusing their actions by comparing them to a chemical reaction is what caused this situation in the first place. People must take responsibility for their actions and stop excusing bad behavior.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No one is excusing bad behavior.  I'm pointing out, that anger at bad behavior doesn't help.
Click to expand...

No, you're comparing a group of individuals that should know better than to burn buildings and loot stores to a chemical reaction with no control over it's process. You are making excuses for animalistic behavior.


----------



## Intense

St.Blues said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't even talking about the Nazis, though of course they did.
> 
> She's been blaming liberals all throughout this thread, much in the same way people throughout history have blamed the Jews.
> 
> It is just stupidity, IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is stupidity.  She's got a real "jones" for liberals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ravi's a Rachel Maddow..... Fuck her.
Click to expand...


 Nope . She is both a Hattie and a Hottie. 

Sky Dancer is the Rachel Maddow.


----------



## St.Blues

Sky Dancer said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> BS.
> 
> Would you rather live in a Third World Country?  I don't.  Yeah, punish the poor.
> 
> Wake up.  The economy is in the toliet and poor people feel it the most.
> 
> Right.  Your solution?  Let them kill themselves in war.
> 
> This has to be the lamest anti-liberal rant I've seen you do to date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not BS.... not by a long shot.
> 
> It has nothing to do with "punishing" the poor. Its about personal responsibility.  You want children... damn well be able to feed and house them...or at least TRY to. If you want something more for yourself and your life..... DO something other then sitting on your ass whining about what is not being given to you.
> 
> As to third world countries... i am very sure anyone in a third world country would trade their lives to wealthy life these "poor" do.
> 
> And gang members dont die in gang wars?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't know shit about the poor.  If it was up to you, poor people would have NOTHING.  No food stamps, no cash aid, no UI.
> 
> Just like in India.  I've been to third world countries.  It's not a pretty picture.  They have no welfare, no charities, no food stamps, no shelters, nothing.
> 
> If that's what you want, move there.
> 
> Old people in the US freeze to death because they can't afford utilities.  They go hungry, because they have to choose between medicine and food.
> 
> In my county, 20% of our population is unemployed.  Without UI and food stamps a lot of people would go hungry.
Click to expand...


Suggestion, Don't take aim at one another.. Look at the root cause. Corrupt politicians with an agenda.. Big Corporations deregulated by politicians.. and lazy people who they can easily sway to vote for them. Primarily Democrats.
Its true... They are no good for America.. They have created the down trodden urban societies. Why? for votes... Union members fit in nicely too, only the get a lot more than the urban folks. All at tax payer expense.. WTF! Can't you see the trend?

Blues


----------



## syrenn

Sky Dancer said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> You won't like me then.  I'm a lesbian AND a liberal.  Your favorite kind of person.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And i don't care .... i still like you. It does not mean we have to agree.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We don't agree.  I'm pissed off at you right now.
Click to expand...


Its rather obvious we are not agreeing. Though... i am not pissed off at you.


----------



## Intense

Ernie S. said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fire lacks the ability to put itself out or to not start in the first place. These are supposedly PEOPLE that are out of control. Excusing their actions by comparing them to a chemical reaction is what caused this situation in the first place. People must take responsibility for their actions and stop excusing bad behavior.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one is excusing bad behavior.  I'm pointing out, that anger at bad behavior doesn't help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, you're comparing a group of individuals that should know better than to burn buildings and loot stores to a chemical reaction with no control over it's process. You are making excuses for animalistic behavior.
Click to expand...


Agreed Ernie. That's in fact a bulls-eye. One would think people would know better than to defend rioting and mayhem.


----------



## Colin

Intense said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is stupidity.  She's got a real "jones" for liberals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi's a Rachel Maddow..... Fuck her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope . She is both a Hattie and a Hottie.
> 
> Sky Dancer is the Rachel Maddow.
Click to expand...


Ravi a hottie? Hell, I'd better give her a good repping damn quick!


----------



## St.Blues

Intense said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is stupidity.  She's got a real "jones" for liberals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi's a Rachel Maddow..... Fuck her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope . She is both a Hattie and a Hottie.
> 
> Sky Dancer is the Rachel Maddow.
Click to expand...


Innie, I'm all fucked up tonight................


----------



## Wicked Jester

syrenn said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not BS.... not by a long shot.
> 
> It has nothing to do with "punishing" the poor. Its about personal responsibility.  You want children... damn well be able to feed and house them...or at least TRY to. If you want something more for yourself and your life..... DO something other then sitting on your ass whining about what is not being given to you.
> 
> As to third world countries... i am very sure anyone in a third world country would trade their lives to wealthy life these "poor" do.
> 
> And gang members dont die in gang wars?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know shit about the poor.  If it was up to you, poor people would have NOTHING.  No food stamps, no cash aid, no UI.
> 
> Just like in India.  I've been to third world countries.  It's not a pretty picture.  They have no welfare, no charities, no food stamps, no shelters, nothing.
> 
> If that's what you want, move there.
> 
> Old people in the US freeze to death because they can't afford utilities.  They go hungry, because they have to choose between medicine and food.
> 
> In my county, 20% of our population is unemployed.  Without UI and food stamps a lot of people would go hungry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Forgive me ...but i know plenty about the poor.
> 
> If it was up to me... the requirements for assistance would be_ very strict_. Quite a difference. If you want the assistance... follow the rules. If the rules are to much for you... feel free to not accept it. Rather simple.
> 
> 
> This is FAR from a third world country. So comparing the two is dishonest of you. I am sure anyone in a thrid world country would trade places with the "poor" here... and i would LOVE to see the "poor" here try and eek out a life in a third world country... maybe they would stop complaining about their privileged lives for once.
> 
> Old people are not the healthy young and able....
> Old people are not the ones having children they cant afford.
Click to expand...

No shit.........I wonder how many of the third world poor are equipping their homes with Big screens, Nintendo's, air conditioners, microwaves, toasters etc.,.....How many are running to the nail salon for a 'cure, or the beauty shop for extensions and custom rolls....How many are running around in designer jeans and Ed Hardy doo rags...How many are rollin' on spinnin' 20's while tossin' empty 40's on everybody elses lawns.....And, how many don't have any clue as to who the fuck the daddy or daddy's truly are, and really don't give a shit as long as the welfare increases for each breaking o' the water moment.


----------



## St.Blues

Intense said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is stupidity.  She's got a real "jones" for liberals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi's a Rachel Maddow..... Fuck her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope . She is both a Hattie and a Hottie.
> 
> Sky Dancer is the Rachel Maddow.
Click to expand...


One more thing... That girl, Ravi needs a spanking.  You do it, I'll watch.

Blues


----------



## syrenn

Sky Dancer said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is complete bullshit.  I've worked with poor people all over the world my whole life.
> 
> You don't know what you're talking about.
> 
> I'm sick and tired of seeing poor people get bashed by conservatives.  The party of the rich.
> 
> What do you propose we do with poor people?  Punish them for being born?
> 
> We are talking about children, mothers, elderly and disabled.  We are talking about UI and food stamps for unemployed people who have lost jobs because some rich dude wants to pay 50 cents a hour in India instead of employing workers here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spay and neuter them....seems to be working great in the feral cat population here in the city.
> 
> How about not having children if you cant feed and house them. How about not giving birth to a child and bring it into a life of poverty.
> 
> Personal responsibility. I know that is a tough concept to understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Forced sterilization?  My, you are a Nazi.  Control freak.
> 
> Yeah, let's punish those children for being born.   Abort them.  Abort any child that is born to a poor person.
> 
> Let's not let any poor person even have sex, in case they MAY get pregnant.  And let's not let them have any contraception either, not even condoms.
> 
> I work with children that you'd like to see go hungry.
Click to expand...


LOL... did i say forced? I likened the problem to the feral cat population. spaying and neutering is working well to improve the quality of life. 

How about if, when you are on the dole.... you must agree not to have any children while on the dole? If you have children when you apply...any more children will not get you any extra money.... if you want more... make what you are getting cover the new ones you have... 

its called

personal responsibility.


----------



## Intense

More on the coordinated effort. 

Depending on one's perspective, Twitter and Facebook have been credited and blamed for helping to organize uprisings in Egypt, Iran and elsewhere in the Middle East. But when it comes to the recent London riots, BlackBerry Messenger (BBM) seems to be the organizational tool of choice for coordinating and recruiting people in the ongoing riots in Tottenham and elsewhere in London.

While discussing the role of Twitter and Facebook in helping spread information about the original cause of the riots (the fatal police shooting of Mark Duggan) the Guardian reported that "the most powerful and up-to-the-minute rallying appears to have taken place on a more covert social network: Blackberry Messenger."

Unlike Twitter where most messages are posted publicly, BBM makes it easy to send private messages that are protected by a PIN code. Messages can be sent to a single person or many people and can be forwarded. BBMs are encrypted, making them harder for authorities to trace than Tweets or Facebook updates.

Research in Motion, which makes BlackBerry devices and operates the BBM service, said that it will cooperate with British police, according to ZDNet UK.

"We feel for those impacted by the riots in London," a company spokesperson said. "We have engaged with the authorities to assist in any way we can." http://www.mercurynews.com/peninsula/ci_18648605


----------



## RadiomanATL

They are so poor that they can afford Blackberries, huh?


----------



## Intense

St.Blues said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi's a Rachel Maddow..... Fuck her.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope . She is both a Hattie and a Hottie.
> 
> Sky Dancer is the Rachel Maddow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One more thing... That girl, Ravi needs a spanking.  You do it, I'll watch.
> 
> Blues
Click to expand...


No thank you, I would neither spank Ravi or Siren for that matter , without their permission anyway.  As naughty as they get, it is not advisable.


----------



## RadiomanATL

Intense said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope . She is both a Hattie and a Hottie.
> 
> Sky Dancer is the Rachel Maddow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One more thing... That girl, Ravi needs a spanking.  You do it, I'll watch.
> 
> Blues
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No thank you, I would neither spank Ravi or Siren for that matter , without their permission anyway.  As naughty as they get, it is not advisable.
Click to expand...


Unless you know the safe word.


----------



## Wicked Jester

RadiomanATL said:


> They are so poor that they can afford Blackberries, huh?


Yep!.........Just goes to show how gullible the liberal apologists up here are.


----------



## St.Blues

Intense said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope . She is both a Hattie and a Hottie.
> 
> Sky Dancer is the Rachel Maddow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One more thing... That girl, Ravi needs a spanking.  You do it, I'll watch.
> 
> Blues
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No thank you, I would neither spank Ravi or Siren for that matter , without their permission anyway.  As naughty as they get, it is not advisable.
Click to expand...


Never syrenn, never.... Ravi.. I dedicated a song for her. She is the new Ms. Miserable.
I still like her.. She just needs a glass of wine and a massage. She'll be okay.
It sure is fun getting even with her though... She cuts and runs. 

Blues


----------



## Valerie

California Girl said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Damn, I hope not.... but now that you mention it.... maybe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as i am concerned.....and for me to say this it should hold some weight.
> 
> St blues is NOT conjob the brainless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know I trust you.... so I'm prepared to go with that. He's good as far as I'm concerned.
Click to expand...


----------



## St.Blues

Valerie said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> As far as i am concerned.....and for me to say this it should hold some weight.
> 
> St blues is NOT conjob the brainless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know I trust you.... so I'm prepared to go with that. He's good as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Val is sticking up for Ravi.. The miserable liberal. No problem.. Hey Val fuck you too. Neg coming your way sooner than later. 

Blues


----------



## Valerie

St.Blues said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know I trust you.... so I'm prepared to go with that. He's good as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Val is sticking up for Ravi.. The miserable liberal. No problem.. Hey Val fuck you too.
Click to expand...




  More like Val is kicking you in the nuts for being a creep in PMs.


----------



## Intense




----------



## Intense

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m50p-XScreM&feature=related]&#x202a;We Didn&#39;t Start the Fire w/ Lyrics&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]
We Didn't Start the Fire w/ Lyrics


----------



## St.Blues

Valerie said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Val is sticking up for Ravi.. The miserable liberal. No problem.. Hey Val fuck you too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More like Val is kicking you in the nuts for being a creep in PMs.
Click to expand...


No not at all. I called like it was after her - She's getting a good - soon........................................... Off my list for good! Just another liberal moron. Bye Bye Val.


----------



## Valerie

St.Blues said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> Val is sticking up for Ravi.. The miserable liberal. No problem.. Hey Val fuck you too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More like Val is kicking you in the nuts for being a creep in PMs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No not at all. I called like it was after her - She's getting a good - soon........................................... Off my list for good! Just another liberal moron. Bye Bye Val.
Click to expand...





  buh bye


----------



## Rat in the Hat

Is the little piece of shit on the right trying to figure out what brand of smokes he's going to steal?


----------



## St.Blues

Valerie said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> 
> More like Val is kicking you in the nuts for being a creep in PMs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No not at all. I called like it was after her - She's getting a good - soon........................................... Off my list for good! Just another liberal moron. Bye Bye Val.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> buh bye
Click to expand...


I was warned about you.. I should have listened . You're a fucking loser.


*
Blues*


----------



## Valerie

St.Blues said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> No not at all. I called like it was after her - She's getting a good - soon........................................... Off my list for good! Just another liberal moron. Bye Bye Val.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> buh bye
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was warned about you.. I should have listened . You're a fucking loser.
> 
> 
> *
> Blues*
Click to expand...






 OOOh watch out for Val, she makes you accountable for your posts! EEEEEEEk!


----------



## Valerie




----------



## St.Blues

Valerie said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> 
> buh bye
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was warned about you.. I should have listened . You're a fucking loser.
> 
> 
> *
> Blues*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OOOh watch out for Val, she makes you accountable for your posts! EEEEEEEk!
Click to expand...


Well then, I guess Fuck You again is in order.. You're trouble Val. No reason for you doing what you did. It wasn't any of your business that Ravi and I were at it. There was no malice between us. We were playing tit for tat... That's all. Then here you come with the -.  It all started when she changed one of my posts in a quote, I made light of it and let it go. Keep it up,  I know how to get even if that's what you really want between. You can pm me if you want to discuss further. Personally I see no need. Just apologize and we'll move on and give me back the -. If you chose to go deeper that's fine with me. I'll take my chances and trust my integrity.

Blues


----------



## Valerie

St.Blues said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was warned about you.. I should have listened . You're a fucking loser.
> 
> 
> *
> Blues*
> 
> 
> 
> OOOh watch out for Val, she makes you accountable for your posts! EEEEEEEk!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well then, I guess Fuck You again is in order..
> 
> 
> You're trouble Val.
> 
> 
> 
> No reason for you doing what you did.
> 
> 
> It wasn't any of your business that Ravi and I were at it.
> 
> 
> 
> There was no malice between us. We were playing tit for tat... That's all.
> 
> 
> Then here you come with the -.
> 
> 
> 
> It all started when she changed one of my posts in a quote,
> 
> 
> I made light of it and let it go.
> 
> 
> 
> Keep it up,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know how to get even
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if that's what you really want between. You can pm me if you want to discuss further.
> 
> 
> Personally I see no need.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just apologize and we'll move on and give me back the -.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you chose to go deeper that's fine with me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I'll take my chances and trust my integrity.*
> 
> Blues
Click to expand...





 








As will I.


----------



## Rat in the Hat

Come on, you two. Can you take this bickering to the flame zone or to PM? 

I'm really interested in this story and don't want to unsubscribe because of this derail.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Valerie

Rat in the Hat said:


> Come on, you two. Can you take this bickering to the flame zone or to PM?
> 
> I'm really interested in this story and don't want to unsubscribe because of this derail.
> 
> Thanks in advance.





OoH, that is excellent advice, Rat...  



U.K. Riots Continue Outside London; Bookstores Soldier On : The Two-Way : NPR











Olympic Host City Under Scrutiny Amid London Riots - ABC News


----------



## Trajan

Modbert said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ASKED..... se the little question mark?????   that is not blaming anyone.
> 
> 
> now if i had said yeah... those damn muslims fucking everything up, rioting and looting again.... then you could say something..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said anything about blame. I simply pointed out your first assumption was that Muslims must be behind it, hence why you asked whether or not they were.
> 
> And to answer your question, no it's not because of the Muslims.
> 
> Edit @ 7:21 PM: I should have used the word accuse, not blame.
Click to expand...


well the last big one that this appears to be mirroring was the bruhaha in Paris....I believe the progenitor was...muslim? *shrugs*


----------



## freedombecki

Blagger said:


>


I'm so sorry, Blagger.


----------



## HenryBHough

Once unemployment in These United Socialist States of Soviet America reach the same level as they have for under 25's in Britain we can expect something similar.  Only more inventive.  It's all in the timing.


----------



## Salt Jones

HenryBHough said:


> Once unemployment in These United Socialist States of Soviet America reach the same level as they have for under 25's in Britain we can expect something similar.  Only more inventive.  It's all in the timing.



But with weapons.


----------



## Sky Dancer

syrenn said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not BS.... not by a long shot.
> 
> It has nothing to do with "punishing" the poor. Its about personal responsibility.  You want children... damn well be able to feed and house them...or at least TRY to. If you want something more for yourself and your life..... DO something other then sitting on your ass whining about what is not being given to you.
> 
> As to third world countries... i am very sure anyone in a third world country would trade their lives to wealthy life these "poor" do.
> 
> And gang members dont die in gang wars?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know shit about the poor.  If it was up to you, poor people would have NOTHING.  No food stamps, no cash aid, no UI.
> 
> Just like in India.  I've been to third world countries.  It's not a pretty picture.  They have no welfare, no charities, no food stamps, no shelters, nothing.
> 
> If that's what you want, move there.
> 
> Old people in the US freeze to death because they can't afford utilities.  They go hungry, because they have to choose between medicine and food.
> 
> In my county, 20% of our population is unemployed.  Without UI and food stamps a lot of people would go hungry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Forgive me ...but i know plenty about the poor.
> 
> If it was up to me... the requirements for assistance would be_ very strict_. Quite a difference. If you want the assistance... follow the rules. If the rules are to much for you... feel free to not accept it. Rather simple.
> 
> 
> This is FAR from a third world country. So comparing the two is dishonest of you. I am sure anyone in a thrid world country would trade places with the "poor" here... and i would LOVE to see the "poor" here try and eek out a life in a third world country... maybe they would stop complaining about their privileged lives for once.
> 
> Old people are not the healthy young and able....
> Old people are not the ones having children they cant afford.
Click to expand...


Look toots.  I don't know what state you're living in, but in my state the rules for getting cash aid are damn strict.  People in my state follow the rules or they lose their aid.  You've got a big ass, right wing myth going on, that all poor people are cheats.

If it was up to you, we wouldn't have any cash aid, UI or food stamps.  Like it or not, poor kids need their parents.  If they can't find work, they need help.

That is, unless you'd rather we mimicked India, and took care of nobody.

The poor in America ARE more fortunate.  Would you rather we hold our heads high and care for our people or be more like a third world country?

YOU don't get to sterilize poor people.  That is so Nazi.


----------



## Rat in the Hat

Sky Dancer said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know shit about the poor.  If it was up to you, poor people would have NOTHING.  No food stamps, no cash aid, no UI.
> 
> Just like in India.  I've been to third world countries.  It's not a pretty picture.  They have no welfare, no charities, no food stamps, no shelters, nothing.
> 
> If that's what you want, move there.
> 
> Old people in the US freeze to death because they can't afford utilities.  They go hungry, because they have to choose between medicine and food.
> 
> In my county, 20% of our population is unemployed.  Without UI and food stamps a lot of people would go hungry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Forgive me ...but i know plenty about the poor.
> 
> If it was up to me... the requirements for assistance would be_ very strict_. Quite a difference. If you want the assistance... follow the rules. If the rules are to much for you... feel free to not accept it. Rather simple.
> 
> 
> This is FAR from a third world country. So comparing the two is dishonest of you. I am sure anyone in a thrid world country would trade places with the "poor" here... and i would LOVE to see the "poor" here try and eek out a life in a third world country... maybe they would stop complaining about their privileged lives for once.
> 
> Old people are not the healthy young and able....
> Old people are not the ones having children they cant afford.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look toots.  I don't know what state you're living in, but in my state the rules for getting cash aid are damn strict.
> 
> If it was up to you, we wouldn't have any cash aid, UI or food stamps.  Like it or not, poor kids need their parents.  If they can't find work, they need help.
> 
> That is, unless you'd rather we mimicked India, and took care of nobody.
> 
> The poor in America ARE more fortunate.  Would you rather we hold our heads high and care for our people or be more like a third world country?
> 
> YOU don't get to sterilize poor people.  That is so Nazi.
Click to expand...


Can I also ask you two to take this somewhere else, so that this thread does not get derailed?

Thanks.


----------



## Sky Dancer

syrenn said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> spay and neuter them....seems to be working great in the feral cat population here in the city.
> 
> How about not having children if you cant feed and house them. How about not giving birth to a child and bring it into a life of poverty.
> 
> Personal responsibility. I know that is a tough concept to understand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Forced sterilization?  My, you are a Nazi.  Control freak.
> 
> Yeah, let's punish those children for being born.   Abort them.  Abort any child that is born to a poor person.
> 
> Let's not let any poor person even have sex, in case they MAY get pregnant.  And let's not let them have any contraception either, not even condoms.
> 
> I work with children that you'd like to see go hungry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL... did i say forced? I likened the problem to the feral cat population. spaying and neutering is working well to improve the quality of life.
> 
> How about if, when you are on the dole.... you must agree not to have any children while on the dole? If you have children when you apply...any more children will not get you any extra money.... if you want more... make what you are getting cover the new ones you have...
> 
> its called
> 
> personal responsibility.
Click to expand...


I don't know which poor people you know, but none that I know are feral cats.  That sounds really racist.  You know, the "they're animals" thing.

We have very strict rules in our state about public assistance.  The days where it pays to have more and more babies are gone.

You can take your sterilization program and shove it.  How dare you call other human beings,  "feral cats".

You have no idea how tough life is for some of these folks.


----------



## Sky Dancer

Rat in the Hat said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Forgive me ...but i know plenty about the poor.
> 
> If it was up to me... the requirements for assistance would be_ very strict_. Quite a difference. If you want the assistance... follow the rules. If the rules are to much for you... feel free to not accept it. Rather simple.
> 
> 
> This is FAR from a third world country. So comparing the two is dishonest of you. I am sure anyone in a thrid world country would trade places with the "poor" here... and i would LOVE to see the "poor" here try and eek out a life in a third world country... maybe they would stop complaining about their privileged lives for once.
> 
> Old people are not the healthy young and able....
> Old people are not the ones having children they cant afford.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look toots.  I don't know what state you're living in, but in my state the rules for getting cash aid are damn strict.
> 
> If it was up to you, we wouldn't have any cash aid, UI or food stamps.  Like it or not, poor kids need their parents.  If they can't find work, they need help.
> 
> That is, unless you'd rather we mimicked India, and took care of nobody.
> 
> The poor in America ARE more fortunate.  Would you rather we hold our heads high and care for our people or be more like a third world country?
> 
> YOU don't get to sterilize poor people.  That is so Nazi.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can I also ask you two to take this somewhere else, so that this thread does not get derailed?
> 
> Thanks.
Click to expand...

We are on topic, you're not.


----------



## Rat in the Hat

Sky Dancer said:


> Rat in the Hat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look toots.  I don't know what state you're living in, but in my state the rules for getting cash aid are damn strict.
> 
> If it was up to you, we wouldn't have any cash aid, UI or food stamps.  Like it or not, poor kids need their parents.  If they can't find work, they need help.
> 
> That is, unless you'd rather we mimicked India, and took care of nobody.
> 
> The poor in America ARE more fortunate.  Would you rather we hold our heads high and care for our people or be more like a third world country?
> 
> YOU don't get to sterilize poor people.  That is so Nazi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can I also ask you two to take this somewhere else, so that this thread does not get derailed?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We are on topic, you're not.
Click to expand...


Right. Because the rioting in London has everything to do with India, forced sterilization, the poor in America, and the Nazi's. 

Welcome to ignore. You join the ranks of Mr Shaman, Article, and 9/11 inside job. Well done.


----------



## Rat in the Hat

Before and after: London riots


----------



## syrenn

Sky Dancer said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know shit about the poor.  If it was up to you, poor people would have NOTHING.  No food stamps, no cash aid, no UI.
> 
> Just like in India.  I've been to third world countries.  It's not a pretty picture.  They have no welfare, no charities, no food stamps, no shelters, nothing.
> 
> If that's what you want, move there.
> 
> Old people in the US freeze to death because they can't afford utilities.  They go hungry, because they have to choose between medicine and food.
> 
> In my county, 20% of our population is unemployed.  Without UI and food stamps a lot of people would go hungry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Forgive me ...but i know plenty about the poor.
> 
> If it was up to me... the requirements for assistance would be_ very strict_. Quite a difference. If you want the assistance... follow the rules. If the rules are to much for you... feel free to not accept it. Rather simple.
> 
> 
> This is FAR from a third world country. So comparing the two is dishonest of you. I am sure anyone in a thrid world country would trade places with the "poor" here... and i would LOVE to see the "poor" here try and eek out a life in a third world country... maybe they would stop complaining about their privileged lives for once.
> 
> Old people are not the healthy young and able....
> Old people are not the ones having children they cant afford.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look toots.  I don't know what state you're living in, but in my state the rules for getting cash aid are damn strict.  People in my state follow the rules or they lose their aid.  You've got a big ass, right wing myth going on, that all poor people are cheats.
> 
> If it was up to you, we wouldn't have any cash aid, UI or food stamps.  Like it or not, poor kids need their parents.  If they can't find work, they need help.
> 
> That is, unless you'd rather we mimicked India, and took care of nobody.
> 
> The poor in America ARE more fortunate.  Would you rather we hold our heads high and care for our people or be more like a third world country?
> 
> YOU don't get to sterilize poor people.  That is so Nazi.
Click to expand...


I live in CA.... Where the poor come for the biggest and best handouts in the country. And they STILL complain. Where do i say that they are ALL cheats? Most of them in my opinion are cheats. 

That right..if it was up to me there would be no cash aid... it would be just like wic tickets.... this is ticket is good or this and this is good for that. Not some open line of credit that you can blow in a casino or sell for half price so you can get your drugs, designer handbags and cigarets and alcohol.

Where do i say kids don't need their parents? I say PARENTS need to exercise some kind of personal responsibility before they breed like rabbits and then put their hand out for section 8 housing, welfare and food stamps for 18 years. Accountability.... if you have one .... you don't get MORE money when you pop the second out. If you have none... you don't get more when you pop one out. You don get more then a SMALL 2 bedroom apartment. 

I know our poor are far better off then third world countries..... however they don't think so do they. All they can do is whine about not having enough. Look at what is going on in the UK.... THAT is just the mentality you want to breed. In breed the idea that the world some how owes them the lifestyle they WANT.  

LOL... you still don't get it do you? Where do i say anything about _forced _sterilization? I say the rules _should be _spay or neuter if you want the check.... It would be up to the individual to CHOOSE to apply or not....and follow the rules. Do i think that will happen... no, but it is a solution to the problem. It sure is working out for the feral cat population in the city.


----------



## Rat in the Hat

After 4 nights of violence in London, a tentative calm - CNN.com


----------



## Rat in the Hat

syrenn said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Forgive me ...but i know plenty about the poor.
> 
> If it was up to me... the requirements for assistance would be_ very strict_. Quite a difference. If you want the assistance... follow the rules. If the rules are to much for you... feel free to not accept it. Rather simple.
> 
> 
> This is FAR from a third world country. So comparing the two is dishonest of you. I am sure anyone in a thrid world country would trade places with the "poor" here... and i would LOVE to see the "poor" here try and eek out a life in a third world country... maybe they would stop complaining about their privileged lives for once.
> 
> Old people are not the healthy young and able....
> Old people are not the ones having children they cant afford.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look toots.  I don't know what state you're living in, but in my state the rules for getting cash aid are damn strict.  People in my state follow the rules or they lose their aid.  You've got a big ass, right wing myth going on, that all poor people are cheats.
> 
> If it was up to you, we wouldn't have any cash aid, UI or food stamps.  Like it or not, poor kids need their parents.  If they can't find work, they need help.
> 
> That is, unless you'd rather we mimicked India, and took care of nobody.
> 
> The poor in America ARE more fortunate.  Would you rather we hold our heads high and care for our people or be more like a third world country?
> 
> YOU don't get to sterilize poor people.  That is so Nazi.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I live in CA.... Where the poor come for the biggest and best handouts in the country. And they STILL complain. Where do i say that they are ALL cheats? Most of them in my opinion are cheats.
> 
> That right..if it was up to me there would be no cash aid... it would be just like wic tickets.... this is ticket is good or this and this is good for that. Not some open line of credit that you can blow in a casino or sell for half price so you can get your drugs, designer handbags and cigarets and alcohol.
> 
> Where do i say kids don't need their parents? I say PARENTS need to exercise some kind of personal responsibility before they breed like rabbits and then put their hand out for section 8 housing, welfare and food stamps for 18 years. Accountability.... if you have one .... you don't get MORE money when you pop the second out. If you have none... you don't get more when you pop one out. You don get more then a SMALL 2 bedroom apartment.
> 
> I know our poor are far better off then third world countries..... however they don't think so do they. All they can do is whine about not having enough. Look at what is going on in the UK.... THAT is just the mentality you want to breed. In breed the idea that the world some how owes them the lifestyle they WANT.
> 
> LOL... you still don't get it do you? Where do i say anything about _forced _sterilization? I say the rules _should be _spay or neuter if you want the check.... It would be up to the individual to CHOOSE to apply or not....and follow the rules. Do i think that will happen... no, but it is a solution to the problem. It sure is working out for the feral cat population in the city.
Click to expand...


Sy, please. End this or move it, OK?


----------



## Rat in the Hat

British cities clear up after looting - World news - Europe - msnbc.com


----------



## syrenn

Rat in the Hat said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look toots.  I don't know what state you're living in, but in my state the rules for getting cash aid are damn strict.  People in my state follow the rules or they lose their aid.  You've got a big ass, right wing myth going on, that all poor people are cheats.
> 
> If it was up to you, we wouldn't have any cash aid, UI or food stamps.  Like it or not, poor kids need their parents.  If they can't find work, they need help.
> 
> That is, unless you'd rather we mimicked India, and took care of nobody.
> 
> The poor in America ARE more fortunate.  Would you rather we hold our heads high and care for our people or be more like a third world country?
> 
> YOU don't get to sterilize poor people.  That is so Nazi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I live in CA.... Where the poor come for the biggest and best handouts in the country. And they STILL complain. Where do i say that they are ALL cheats? Most of them in my opinion are cheats.
> 
> That right..if it was up to me there would be no cash aid... it would be just like wic tickets.... this is ticket is good or this and this is good for that. Not some open line of credit that you can blow in a casino or sell for half price so you can get your drugs, designer handbags and cigarets and alcohol.
> 
> Where do i say kids don't need their parents? I say PARENTS need to exercise some kind of personal responsibility before they breed like rabbits and then put their hand out for section 8 housing, welfare and food stamps for 18 years. Accountability.... if you have one .... you don't get MORE money when you pop the second out. If you have none... you don't get more when you pop one out. You don get more then a SMALL 2 bedroom apartment.
> 
> I know our poor are far better off then third world countries..... however they don't think so do they. All they can do is whine about not having enough. Look at what is going on in the UK.... THAT is just the mentality you want to breed. In breed the idea that the world some how owes them the lifestyle they WANT.
> 
> LOL... you still don't get it do you? Where do i say anything about _forced _sterilization? I say the rules _should be _spay or neuter if you want the check.... It would be up to the individual to CHOOSE to apply or not....and follow the rules. Do i think that will happen... no, but it is a solution to the problem. It sure is working out for the feral cat population in the city.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sy, please. End this or move it, OK?
Click to expand...


You dont get it.... this is just the problem that has come to a head in he UK...

The idea of entitlements.... the in bread idea that the government OWES them a lifestyle.


----------



## Rat in the Hat

syrenn said:


> Rat in the Hat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I live in CA.... Where the poor come for the biggest and best handouts in the country. And they STILL complain. Where do i say that they are ALL cheats? Most of them in my opinion are cheats.
> 
> That right..if it was up to me there would be no cash aid... it would be just like wic tickets.... this is ticket is good or this and this is good for that. Not some open line of credit that you can blow in a casino or sell for half price so you can get your drugs, designer handbags and cigarets and alcohol.
> 
> Where do i say kids don't need their parents? I say PARENTS need to exercise some kind of personal responsibility before they breed like rabbits and then put their hand out for section 8 housing, welfare and food stamps for 18 years. Accountability.... if you have one .... you don't get MORE money when you pop the second out. If you have none... you don't get more when you pop one out. You don get more then a SMALL 2 bedroom apartment.
> 
> I know our poor are far better off then third world countries..... however they don't think so do they. All they can do is whine about not having enough. Look at what is going on in the UK.... THAT is just the mentality you want to breed. In breed the idea that the world some how owes them the lifestyle they WANT.
> 
> LOL... you still don't get it do you? Where do i say anything about _forced _sterilization? I say the rules _should be _spay or neuter if you want the check.... It would be up to the individual to CHOOSE to apply or not....and follow the rules. Do i think that will happen... no, but it is a solution to the problem. It sure is working out for the feral cat population in the city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sy, please. End this or move it, OK?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You dont get it.... this is just the problem that has come to a head in he UK...
> 
> The idea of entitlements.... the in bread idea that the government OWES them a lifestyle.
Click to expand...


I just don't see it that way. From what I've read, and from what posters in England have posted, this started with a family that went off half-cocked about a punk with an illegal weapon, and all the thugs and hooligans joining in as crimes of opportunity.

If it was all about "poverty" they would be robbing food stores, not the Foot Locker, Western Union, and Sony. 

And in the words of one of the girls in the video I posted, "we're showing the rich what we can do". While at the same time, drinking the wine she stole. That doesn't sound like someone who's in desperate poverty to me.


----------



## Rat in the Hat

Now this is a really good idea.

SHOP A MORON | The Sun |News


----------



## English Dave

Well, it's the morning after the night before, most of the problems last night were in 
Manchester near to me, not London. Hopefully, the massive manpower the police put on
the streets of London last night will be enough to stop this, hope so. I watched what was
going on in Manchester till the early hours, as someone else said, this has become about the
chance to steal sneakers and phones, not a shooting. The TV will be full of talking heads today, all with an explanation for these riots. But, as I said, the government can't find jobs
out of thin air, and many of these people who think they're entited to live their lives at the
expense of the poor hardworking taxpayer, will enjoy their new phones, most will never be
caught and punished. I know people who work hard, try to pay their way, and be law abiding.
They have to think long and hard before they have a child, but the underclass of this country
have no such worries. The more children they have, the more money the government gives
them. In the end, they will overwhelm us unless someone finds an answer.


----------



## Colin

Sky Dancer said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Forced sterilization?  My, you are a Nazi.  Control freak.
> 
> Yeah, let's punish those children for being born.   Abort them.  Abort any child that is born to a poor person.
> 
> Let's not let any poor person even have sex, in case they MAY get pregnant.  And let's not let them have any contraception either, not even condoms.
> 
> I work with children that you'd like to see go hungry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL... did i say forced? I likened the problem to the feral cat population. spaying and neutering is working well to improve the quality of life.
> 
> How about if, when you are on the dole.... you must agree not to have any children while on the dole? If you have children when you apply...any more children will not get you any extra money.... if you want more... make what you are getting cover the new ones you have...
> 
> its called
> 
> personal responsibility.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know which poor people you know, but none that I know are feral cats.  That sounds really racist.  You know, the "they're animals" thing.
> 
> We have very strict rules in our state about public assistance.  The days where it pays to have more and more babies are gone.
> 
> You can take your sterilization program and shove it.  How dare you call other human beings,  "feral cats".
> 
> You have no idea how tough life is for some of these folks.
Click to expand...


Well, feral cats is much too nice a term for the hooligans rioting and looting in London and other cities. They are the scum of the earth and hanging would be too good for them!


----------



## Ravi

Colin said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL... did i say forced? I likened the problem to the feral cat population. spaying and neutering is working well to improve the quality of life.
> 
> How about if, when you are on the dole.... you must agree not to have any children while on the dole? If you have children when you apply...any more children will not get you any extra money.... if you want more... make what you are getting cover the new ones you have...
> 
> its called
> 
> personal responsibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know which poor people you know, but none that I know are feral cats.  That sounds really racist.  You know, the "they're animals" thing.
> 
> We have very strict rules in our state about public assistance.  The days where it pays to have more and more babies are gone.
> 
> You can take your sterilization program and shove it.  How dare you call other human beings,  "feral cats".
> 
> You have no idea how tough life is for some of these folks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, feral cats is much too nice a term for the hooligans rioting and looting in London and other cities. They are the scum of the earth and hanging would be too good for them!
Click to expand...


I found this article pretty interesting and a little frightening. It describes in part, or in theory anyway, what has led up to these riots. (and it isn't liberals, dammit!) And predicts in a way a problem for years to come.

What do you think of it, Colin?

London riots point to much wider risks of youth unrest | Reuters


----------



## Ravi

Valerie said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> 
> More like Val is kicking you in the nuts for being a creep in PMs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No not at all. I called like it was after her - She's getting a good - soon........................................... Off my list for good! Just another liberal moron. Bye Bye Val.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> buh bye
Click to expand...


Awesome! I prefer to be on the ignore list of creeps.


----------



## California Girl

Rat in the Hat said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rat in the Hat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sy, please. End this or move it, OK?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You dont get it.... this is just the problem that has come to a head in he UK...
> 
> The idea of entitlements.... the in bread idea that the government OWES them a lifestyle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just don't see it that way. From what I've read, and from what posters in England have posted, this started with a family that went off half-cocked about a punk with an illegal weapon, and all the thugs and hooligans joining in as crimes of opportunity.
> 
> If it was all about "poverty" they would be robbing food stores, not the Foot Locker, Western Union, and Sony.
> 
> And in the words of one of the girls in the video I posted, "we're showing the rich what we can do". While at the same time, drinking the wine she stole. That doesn't sound like someone who's in desperate poverty to me.
Click to expand...


Funnily, they do 'claim' it's about 'poverty'. But really it seems more like a large bunch of brats who want cool stuff without having to pay for it. 

We have some kid on tv saying they're 'redistributing the wealth'. Now, that's not an English concept - that phrase has never been used by any British politician so I wonder where they got that idea from?


----------



## California Girl

Cool! Cameron says the police can 'use whatever means necessary' to stop the thugs. Let's hope they opt for deploying firearms officers with a 'shoot to kill' policy. LMAO. They won't but it would be fun.


----------



## Ravi

California Girl said:


> Cool! Cameron says the police can 'use whatever means necessary' to stop the thugs. Let's hope they opt for deploying firearms officers with a 'shoot to kill' policy. LMAO. They won't but it would be fun.


Fun to see seven year old's shot?

I don't think it would be at all.


----------



## English Dave

I also just watched the Prime Minister on TV, trying to talk tough with a touch of hand
wringing. I've seen it all before, hopefully this Prime Minister means it. The one thing that
would change things would be the sudden appearance of jobs. This is not going to happen
anytime soon. Also if and when it does, and more work appears, the word will go out, and
polish people, and other eastern europeans who can come here in any amount they want,
will come to England and take the jobs. What would you do if you're an employer, look
for England's feral, give me for nothing youth, or a hard working pole? No contest. Any
leader of this country ends up just trying to keep a lid on problems instead of tackling them.


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know which poor people you know, but none that I know are feral cats.  That sounds really racist.  You know, the "they're animals" thing.
> 
> We have very strict rules in our state about public assistance.  The days where it pays to have more and more babies are gone.
> 
> You can take your sterilization program and shove it.  How dare you call other human beings,  "feral cats".
> 
> You have no idea how tough life is for some of these folks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, feral cats is much too nice a term for the hooligans rioting and looting in London and other cities. They are the scum of the earth and hanging would be too good for them!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I found this article pretty interesting and a little frightening. It describes in part, or in theory anyway, what has led up to these riots. (and it isn't liberals, dammit!) And predicts in a way a problem for years to come.
> 
> What do you think of it, Colin?
> 
> London riots point to much wider risks of youth unrest | Reuters
Click to expand...


Here's what I find interesting. You're happy with an article (which are opinion based, not necessarily fact based) and, because that article doesn't reference liberal policies, you'll accept it on face value. Articles are just opinions Ravi. They are no more valid than your opinion or my opinion. I base my opinion about the riots on the research provided by social scientists in the UK in particular, but also across Europe.


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cool! Cameron says the police can 'use whatever means necessary' to stop the thugs. Let's hope they opt for deploying firearms officers with a 'shoot to kill' policy. LMAO. They won't but it would be fun.
> 
> 
> 
> Fun to see seven year old's shot?
> 
> I don't think it would be at all.
Click to expand...


Meh, probably not. But.... if you have 7 year olds setting alight to buildings in which people are living... those 7 year olds are likely to kill someone. That ok? These feral critters need to be stopped. And I personally don't really care how.


----------



## Ravi

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, feral cats is much too nice a term for the hooligans rioting and looting in London and other cities. They are the scum of the earth and hanging would be too good for them!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found this article pretty interesting and a little frightening. It describes in part, or in theory anyway, what has led up to these riots. (and it isn't liberals, dammit!) And predicts in a way a problem for years to come.
> 
> What do you think of it, Colin?
> 
> London riots point to much wider risks of youth unrest | Reuters
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here's what I find interesting. You're happy with an article (which are opinion based, not necessarily fact based) and, because that article doesn't reference liberal policies, you'll accept it on face value. Articles are just opinions Ravi. They are no more valid than your opinion or my opinion. I base my opinion about the riots on the research provided by social scientists in the UK in particular, but also across Europe.
Click to expand...


Thanks for your opinion, but I was asking Colin for his.


----------



## mudwhistle

Ravi said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cool! Cameron says the police can 'use whatever means necessary' to stop the thugs. Let's hope they opt for deploying firearms officers with a 'shoot to kill' policy. LMAO. They won't but it would be fun.
> 
> 
> 
> Fun to see seven year old's shot?
> 
> I don't think it would be at all.
Click to expand...


Yes, the UK is beginning to look like the Gaza Strip.

The only difference is they have fewer rocks to throw.


----------



## mudwhistle

English Dave said:


> I also just watched the Prime Minister on TV, trying to talk tough with a touch of hand
> wringing. I've seen it all before, hopefully this Prime Minister means it.* The one thing that
> would change things would be the sudden appearance of jobs.* This is not going to happen
> anytime soon. Also if and when it does, and more work appears, the word will go out, and
> polish people, and other eastern europeans who can come here in any amount they want,
> will come to England and take the jobs. What would you do if you're an employer, look
> for England's feral, give me for nothing youth, or a hard working pole? No contest. Any
> leader of this country ends up just trying to keep a lid on problems instead of tackling them.



Why work when it's easier to just bust down a window and steal it.


----------



## Ravi

Have they implemented curfews? Have they cut off smart phone service?


----------



## Ravi

No curfew, but at least one MP has called for one.

One of London's most prominent and liberal MPs has called for a curfew to be imposed this evening.

In a sign that attitudes are hardening after a night of rioting, Hackney Mp Diane Abbott, who is usually associated with civil liberties campaigns, called for the move after surveying the wreckage on her constituency.

"I have not heard of a curfew on mainland Britain in the past century," she said.

London MP demands curfew




I don't understand why there wasn't one from the first night, or at least the second.


----------



## driveby

This is what happens when you get a bunch of leftists together, this behavior is everything democrats wish the tea party could be.......


----------



## English Dave

Very difficult to impose a curfew on a 24 hour, 8 million city like London. I think it would
have to get worse for that to happen. Interesting how last night in London they did'nt
come out to play. Let's see what happens tonight. As for Manchester, this is mainly some
stupid youths who see an opportunity to steal. Watching a few of them being interviewed
on TV was an eyeopener. They don't give a toss for anybody or anything. The way to deal
with them is for the police to go in hard with batons and rubber bullets. They need to be
taught a hard lesson. If it carries on till Friday night, a night when 1000s of people come into
the city centre for a night out, there could be real trouble. How are the police supposed to
do their normal policing role, and deal with gangs of thieves at the same time?


----------



## Ravi

English Dave said:


> Very difficult to impose a curfew on a 24 hour, 8 million city like London. I think it would
> have to get worse for that to happen. Interesting how last night in London they did'nt
> come out to play. Let's see what happens tonight. As for Manchester, this is mainly some
> stupid youths who see an opportunity to steal. Watching a few of them being interviewed
> on TV was an eyeopener. They don't give a toss for anybody or anything. The way to deal
> with them is for the police to go in hard with batons and rubber bullets. They need to be
> taught a hard lesson. If it carries on till Friday night, a night when 1000s of people come into
> the city centre for a night out, there could be real trouble. How are the police supposed to
> do their normal policing role, and deal with gangs of thieves at the same time?


Why not just impose the curfew at night? Sure it isn't easy but it would certainly stop a lot of bad behavior.


----------



## alexa

Ravi said:


> No curfew, but at least one MP has called for one.
> 
> One of London's most prominent and liberal MPs has called for a curfew to be imposed this evening.
> 
> In a sign that attitudes are hardening after a night of rioting, Hackney Mp Diane Abbott, who is usually associated with civil liberties campaigns, called for the move after surveying the wreckage on her constituency.
> 
> "I have not heard of a curfew on mainland Britain in the past century," she said.
> 
> London MP demands curfew



The Police have been told they can use rubber bullets. That I would imagine would be worse than a curfew and Dianne needs to think of all her constituents and what is happening at the moment is just mindless hoodlum violence effecting them too.

Law and order needs to be regained and then time taken to review the situation.




Ravi said:


> I don't understand why there wasn't one from the first night, or at least the second.



I don't think anyone expected what has happened.  The first day began with a genuine grievance. Also there is a wish to deal with this through normal police methods.  Presenting a curfew creates it's own problems an illustrates a problem not in control. It would be a big step for us to take and with the Olympics coming up there is an even greater desire to show the world we can deal with this through normal police procedures.

16,000 police on the streets of London last night seems to have had the desired effect, calls for water cannon by all parties...something which I heard the police say last night was not at all suitable for the situation

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/09/theresa-may-water-cannon-riots


----------



## Ravi

alexa said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> No curfew, but at least one MP has called for one.
> 
> One of London's most prominent and liberal MPs has called for a curfew to be imposed this evening.
> 
> In a sign that attitudes are hardening after a night of rioting, Hackney Mp Diane Abbott, who is usually associated with civil liberties campaigns, called for the move after surveying the wreckage on her constituency.
> 
> "I have not heard of a curfew on mainland Britain in the past century," she said.
> 
> London MP demands curfew
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Police have been told they can use rubber bullets. That I would imagine would be worse than a curfew and Dianne needs to think of all her constituents and what is happening at the moment is just mindless hoodlum violence effecting them too.
> 
> Law and order needs to be regained and then time taken to review the situation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand why there wasn't one from the first night, or at least the second.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think anyone expected what has happened.  The first day began with a genuine grievance. Also there is a wish to deal with this through normal police methods.  Presenting a curfew creates it's own problems an illustrates a problem not in control. It would be a big step for us to take and with the Olympics coming up there is an even greater desire to show the world we can deal with this through normal police procedures.
> 
> 16,000 police on the streets of London last night seems to have had the desired effect, though Cameron has also said water cannon can be used...something which I heard the police say last night was not at all suitable for the situation
> 
> England riots: day four aftermath live | UK news | guardian.co.uk
Click to expand...


That's an odd rational. A curfew is control. It is almost the first thing imposed when we have riots over here.


----------



## alexa

Ravi said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> No curfew, but at least one MP has called for one.
> 
> One of London's most prominent and liberal MPs has called for a curfew to be imposed this evening.
> 
> In a sign that attitudes are hardening after a night of rioting, Hackney Mp Diane Abbott, who is usually associated with civil liberties campaigns, called for the move after surveying the wreckage on her constituency.
> 
> "I have not heard of a curfew on mainland Britain in the past century," she said.
> 
> London MP demands curfew
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Police have been told they can use rubber bullets. That I would imagine would be worse than a curfew and Dianne needs to think of all her constituents and what is happening at the moment is just mindless hoodlum violence effecting them too.
> 
> Law and order needs to be regained and then time taken to review the situation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand why there wasn't one from the first night, or at least the second.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think anyone expected what has happened.  The first day began with a genuine grievance. Also there is a wish to deal with this through normal police methods.  Presenting a curfew creates it's own problems an illustrates a problem not in control. It would be a big step for us to take and with the Olympics coming up there is an even greater desire to show the world we can deal with this through normal police procedures.
> 
> 16,000 police on the streets of London last night seems to have had the desired effect, though Cameron has also said water cannon can be used...something which I heard the police say last night was not at all suitable for the situation
> 
> England riots: day four aftermath live | UK news | guardian.co.uk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's an odd rational. A curfew is control. It is almost the first thing imposed when we have riots over here.
Click to expand...


Well I am retired and I have never known one in Britain.


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> No curfew, but at least one MP has called for one.
> 
> One of London's most prominent and liberal MPs has called for a curfew to be imposed this evening.
> 
> In a sign that attitudes are hardening after a night of rioting, Hackney Mp Diane Abbott, who is usually associated with civil liberties campaigns, called for the move after surveying the wreckage on her constituency.
> 
> "I have not heard of a curfew on mainland Britain in the past century," she said.
> 
> London MP demands curfew
> 
> I don't understand why there wasn't one from the first night, or at least the second.



Let me explain why there wasn't one..... 

Try implementing a curfew in one of the world's biggest business centers. Not exactly practical. London is a 24/7 economy - and Britain has a struggling economy already. Implementing a curfew would cost the country untold billions of desperately needed revenue. Good idea? No. But again, makes great media. 

At least one MP has called for BlackBerry Messenger to be shut down too. Doesn't make it right... or feasible.... but it makes great media coverage.


----------



## Ravi

A few days loss of profit would be cheaper than replacing all the burnt down buildings.


----------



## WillowTree

Blagger said:


> Rioting is rapidly spreading across Britain's capital. There are cars being torched and overturned within sight of our balcony. It's getting worse by the day. Supermarkets are all closing to avoid being targetted by looters. And I'll echo the comment pages of all the major British news outlets: the majority of the rioter/looters/scum are ethnic minorities. The police's hands are largely tied because their boots are cemented in political correctness (blimey, that almost read like an emergency distress signal).
> 
> I'm the only gun owner in the building, for what precious little my ancient BSA 12-bore will do. Still, stiff upper lip an' all that.



There are cameras everywhere, identify them, locate them and deport them. They no longer deserve to live in England.


----------



## alexa

Ravi said:


> A few days loss of profit would be cheaper than replacing all the burnt down buildings.



Not an economist but I wonder if that is right.


----------



## WillowTree

Modbert said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> So is this some muslim thing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is your first assumption to blame Muslims?
Click to expand...


dumbass, cause the op said ethnic minorities. that could definitely include muslims, remember they tried to burn france down a few summers ago.


----------



## ekrem

London was anyway not much of a "tourist attraction" despite the huge tourists visiting the city. 
How will this revolt affect tourism?


----------



## alexa

WillowTree said:


> Blagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rioting is rapidly spreading across Britain's capital. There are cars being torched and overturned within sight of our balcony. It's getting worse by the day. Supermarkets are all closing to avoid being targetted by looters. And I'll echo the comment pages of all the major British news outlets: the majority of the rioter/looters/scum are ethnic minorities. The police's hands are largely tied because their boots are cemented in political correctness (blimey, that almost read like an emergency distress signal).
> 
> I'm the only gun owner in the building, for what precious little my ancient BSA 12-bore will do. Still, stiff upper lip an' all that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are cameras everywhere, identify them, locate them and deport them. They no longer deserve to live in England.
Click to expand...


We don't deport our own citizens.  We did 300 years or so ago in the Highland clearances, many of them went to the US.  Are you wanting these people too?


----------



## WillowTree

Modbert said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My mistake. I should have used the word accused. My point still stands though.
Click to expand...


no actually, your point has been knocked on it's ass.


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> A few days loss of profit would be cheaper than replacing all the burnt down buildings.



Honestly, you have no idea what that would mean to Britain in general. It wouldn't be just London. It would be every major city across the country. That's not 'a few days lost profits', it would cost the country thousands of jobs when international companies decide they'd be better off elsewhere. They'd have to close everything. It would bankrupt an already shaky economy within days. And reputationally,  Britain would take decades to recover. Foreign business wouldn't come to a country that shuts down entirely because of kids running amok. 

They may as well hand the keys to China.


----------



## California Girl

alexa said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> A few days loss of profit would be cheaper than replacing all the burnt down buildings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not an economist but I wonder if that is right.
Click to expand...


No, it isn't. It would destroy Britain's economy and reputation as a business center for decades.


----------



## Ravi

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> A few days loss of profit would be cheaper than replacing all the burnt down buildings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly, you have no idea what that would mean to Britain in general. It wouldn't be just London. It would be every major city across the country. That's not 'a few days lost profits', it would cost the country thousands of jobs when international companies decide they'd be better off elsewhere. They'd have to close everything. It would bankrupt an already shaky economy within days. And reputationally,  Britain would take decades to recover. Foreign business wouldn't come to a country that shuts down entirely because of kids running amok.
> 
> They may as well hand the keys to China.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is so much better for their reputation to let looters run wild for four days.


----------



## editec

I think it is not too much of an overstament to suggest that the riots in England have damaged its reputation as a civilized nation.

Not to overstate that, of course, England_ is_ a civilized place I might still visit.

But the perception that it is_ entirely_ civil place certainly has taken a serious hit.


----------



## WillowTree

alexa said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rioting is rapidly spreading across Britain's capital. There are cars being torched and overturned within sight of our balcony. It's getting worse by the day. Supermarkets are all closing to avoid being targetted by looters. And I'll echo the comment pages of all the major British news outlets: the majority of the rioter/looters/scum are ethnic minorities. The police's hands are largely tied because their boots are cemented in political correctness (blimey, that almost read like an emergency distress signal).
> 
> I'm the only gun owner in the building, for what precious little my ancient BSA 12-bore will do. Still, stiff upper lip an' all that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are cameras everywhere, identify them, locate them and deport them. They no longer deserve to live in England.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We don't deport our own citizens.  We did 300 years or so ago in the Highland clearances, many of them went to the US.  Are you wanting these people too?
Click to expand...


My opinion, when you riot and loot and try to burn down your country you no longer deserve to be a "citizen." keep them if you want them wee sure as hell don't.


----------



## Ravi

editec said:


> I think it is not too much of an overstament to suggest that the riots in England have damaged its reputation as a civilized nation.
> 
> Not to overstate that, of course, England_ is_ a civilized place I might still visit.
> 
> But the perception that it is_ entirely_ civil place certainly has taken a serious hit.


The prime minister sure looks the fool. After three days of rioting he vows to crack down???


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is not too much of an overstament to suggest that the riots in England have damaged its reputation as a civilized nation.
> 
> Not to overstate that, of course, England_ is_ a civilized place I might still visit.
> 
> But the perception that it is_ entirely_ civil place certainly has taken a serious hit.
> 
> 
> 
> The prime minister sure looks the fool. After three days of rioting he vows to crack down???
Click to expand...


Actually, he said that first a couple of days ago. I don't think he looks a fool. Must be that 'conservative' label he has.


----------



## Ernie S.

Sky Dancer said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Forced sterilization?  My, you are a Nazi.  Control freak.
> 
> Yeah, let's punish those children for being born.   Abort them.  Abort any child that is born to a poor person.
> 
> Let's not let any poor person even have sex, in case they MAY get pregnant.  And let's not let them have any contraception either, not even condoms.
> 
> I work with children that you'd like to see go hungry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL... did i say forced? I likened the problem to the feral cat population. spaying and neutering is working well to improve the quality of life.
> 
> How about if, when you are on the dole.... you must agree not to have any children while on the dole? If you have children when you apply...any more children will not get you any extra money.... if you want more... make what you are getting cover the new ones you have...
> 
> its called
> 
> personal responsibility.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know which poor people you know, but none that I know are feral cats.  That sounds really racist.  You know, the "they're animals" thing.
> 
> We have very strict rules in our state about public assistance.  The days where it pays to have more and more babies are gone.
> 
> You can take your sterilization program and shove it.  *How dare you call other human beings,  "feral cats".*
> 
> You have no idea how tough life is for some of these folks.
Click to expand...


Let's see... You can compare rioters to fire, but you get all pissy if they are compared to feral cats. You are a joke!


----------



## California Girl

alexa said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rioting is rapidly spreading across Britain's capital. There are cars being torched and overturned within sight of our balcony. It's getting worse by the day. Supermarkets are all closing to avoid being targetted by looters. And I'll echo the comment pages of all the major British news outlets: the majority of the rioter/looters/scum are ethnic minorities. The police's hands are largely tied because their boots are cemented in political correctness (blimey, that almost read like an emergency distress signal).
> 
> I'm the only gun owner in the building, for what precious little my ancient BSA 12-bore will do. Still, stiff upper lip an' all that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are cameras everywhere, identify them, locate them and deport them. They no longer deserve to live in England.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We don't deport our own citizens.  We did 300 years or so ago in the Highland clearances, many of them went to the US.  Are you wanting these people too?
Click to expand...


Actually, wasn't it Australia that was your penal colony? That worked out real well... for Australia.


----------



## English Dave

I think the general feeling when I talk to my neighbours and friends is that all these people
who think they can run amok destroying and robbing need to be taught a lesson. Things
have gone far enough, the police have been damaged by unfair critisism for too long. Many
of these young people in different parts of the country have laughed at authority for years.
Everyone of these scum has a lawyer to defend the undefenceable. We, the real English
people, have had just about enough. Hopefully, if we get more of this tonight, the police
can move in and dish out a real lesson that if you behave in this way, you will be punished.


----------



## Ravi

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is not too much of an overstament to suggest that the riots in England have damaged its reputation as a civilized nation.
> 
> Not to overstate that, of course, England_ is_ a civilized place I might still visit.
> 
> But the perception that it is_ entirely_ civil place certainly has taken a serious hit.
> 
> 
> 
> The prime minister sure looks the fool. After three days of rioting he vows to crack down???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, he said that first a couple of days ago. I don't think he looks a fool. Must be that 'conservative' label he has.
Click to expand...

He said it Tuesday. The riots started Saturday. 

Saturday + Sunday + Monday = 3 days.


----------



## alexa

California Girl said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are cameras everywhere, identify them, locate them and deport them. They no longer deserve to live in England.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We don't deport our own citizens.  We did 300 years or so ago in the Highland clearances, many of them went to the US.  Are you wanting these people too?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, wasn't it Australia that was your penal colony? That worked out real well... for Australia.
Click to expand...


Australia was indeed our penal colony.  I was talking about deporting citizens.  Highlanders were sent to the US.


----------



## Ravi

English Dave said:


> I think the general feeling when I talk to my neighbours and friends is that all these people
> who think they can run amok destroying and robbing need to be taught a lesson. Things
> have gone far enough, the police have been damaged by unfair critisism for too long. Many
> of these young people in different parts of the country have laughed at authority for years.
> Everyone of these scum has a lawyer to defend the undefenceable. We, the real English
> people, have had just about enough. Hopefully, if we get more of this tonight, the police
> can move in and dish out a real lesson that if you behave in this way, you will be punished.



You say the police have been damaged by unfair criticism and yet it looks like the police did shoot and kill that man without cause.


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the general feeling when I talk to my neighbours and friends is that all these people
> who think they can run amok destroying and robbing need to be taught a lesson. Things
> have gone far enough, the police have been damaged by unfair critisism for too long. Many
> of these young people in different parts of the country have laughed at authority for years.
> Everyone of these scum has a lawyer to defend the undefenceable. We, the real English
> people, have had just about enough. Hopefully, if we get more of this tonight, the police
> can move in and dish out a real lesson that if you behave in this way, you will be punished.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You say the police have been damaged by unfair criticism and yet it looks like the police did shoot and kill that man without cause.
Click to expand...


Having an illegal firearm is 'without cause'? Maybe where you live, but not in the UK. They shot first. He's dead. Better him than a police officer.


----------



## California Girl

alexa said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> We don't deport our own citizens.  We did 300 years or so ago in the Highland clearances, many of them went to the US.  Are you wanting these people too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, wasn't it Australia that was your penal colony? That worked out real well... for Australia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Australia was indeed our penal colony.  I was talking about deporting citizens.  Highlanders were sent to the US.
Click to expand...


They lucked out. Trace them and ask. As did the 'criminals' y'all deported to Australia. Look how many Brits are applying to get into Australia now. No disrespect intended - I love Britain.


----------



## Ravi

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the general feeling when I talk to my neighbours and friends is that all these people
> who think they can run amok destroying and robbing need to be taught a lesson. Things
> have gone far enough, the police have been damaged by unfair critisism for too long. Many
> of these young people in different parts of the country have laughed at authority for years.
> Everyone of these scum has a lawyer to defend the undefenceable. We, the real English
> people, have had just about enough. Hopefully, if we get more of this tonight, the police
> can move in and dish out a real lesson that if you behave in this way, you will be punished.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You say the police have been damaged by unfair criticism and yet it looks like the police did shoot and kill that man without cause.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Having an illegal firearm is 'without cause'? Maybe where you live, but not in the UK. They shot first. He's dead. Better him than a police officer.
Click to expand...


In my country, people get arrested for illegal activities. Not executed on the street.


----------



## High_Gravity

California Girl said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, wasn't it Australia that was your penal colony? That worked out real well... for Australia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Australia was indeed our penal colony.  I was talking about deporting citizens.  Highlanders were sent to the US.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They lucked out. Trace them and ask. As did the 'criminals' y'all deported to Australia. Look how many Brits are applying to get into Australia now. No disrespect intended - I love Britain.
Click to expand...


Isn't that funny how that worked out?


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> You say the police have been damaged by unfair criticism and yet it looks like the police did shoot and kill that man without cause.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having an illegal firearm is 'without cause'? Maybe where you live, but not in the UK. They shot first. He's dead. Better him than a police officer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In my country, people get arrested for illegal activities. Not executed on the street.
Click to expand...


He wasn't 'executed', although I'm sure that sounds much more dramatic than the reality of the situation. He was armed. He had a criminal record. He was known to be potentially violent. Even his family are not outraged about the shooting, they were pissed that the police didn't inform them about what was going on.


----------



## California Girl

High_Gravity said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Australia was indeed our penal colony.  I was talking about deporting citizens.  Highlanders were sent to the US.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They lucked out. Trace them and ask. As did the 'criminals' y'all deported to Australia. Look how many Brits are applying to get into Australia now. No disrespect intended - I love Britain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Isn't that funny how that worked out?
Click to expand...


I find it funny.


----------



## alexa

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the general feeling when I talk to my neighbours and friends is that all these people
> who think they can run amok destroying and robbing need to be taught a lesson. Things
> have gone far enough, the police have been damaged by unfair critisism for too long. Many
> of these young people in different parts of the country have laughed at authority for years.
> Everyone of these scum has a lawyer to defend the undefenceable. We, the real English
> people, have had just about enough. Hopefully, if we get more of this tonight, the police
> can move in and dish out a real lesson that if you behave in this way, you will be punished.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You say the police have been damaged by unfair criticism and yet it looks like the police did shoot and kill that man without cause.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Having an illegal firearm is 'without cause'? Maybe where you live, but not in the UK. They shot first. He's dead. Better him than a police officer.
Click to expand...


Having a firearm in your sock while you are in a taxi is clearly something the police are not even going to know and this is the very first time I have heard of police in the UK having a policy of 'shoot first'.

There is definitely something fishy about this shooting.  The police lied at first saying he had shot first.  We now know that is not true.  What has not been cleared up is why the police shot him.


----------



## highway234

California Girl said:


> it would cost the country thousands of jobs when international companies decide they'd be better off elsewhere.



i don't get this conservative idea that companies are always so eager to tear down their business establishment and "go elsewhere" at the first sign of trouble. it's the same thing we always hear when we talk about trying to ask corporations in the US to pay a couple taxes now and then, it's, oh, we can't because they'll get huffy and pull up their stakes and leave. i can't imagine a company making decisions based on criteria like these. they make decisions based on whether they're making a profit. if they're making a profit in a particular country, they'll stay in that country whatever the tax rate is, and even if there is civil unrest and a few days' curfew. there are capital costs involved with moving a company's national operation, and a company's not going to incur those costs absent a damn good reason.


----------



## St.Blues

English Dave said:


> Well, it's the morning after the night before, most of the problems last night were in
> Manchester near to me, not London. Hopefully, the massive manpower the police put on
> the streets of London last night will be enough to stop this, hope so. I watched what was
> going on in Manchester till the early hours, as someone else said, this has become about the
> chance to steal sneakers and phones, not a shooting. The TV will be full of talking heads today, all with an explanation for these riots. But, as I said, the government can't find jobs
> out of thin air, and many of these people who think they're entited to live their lives at the
> expense of the poor hardworking taxpayer, will enjoy their new phones, most will never be
> caught and punished. I know people who work hard, try to pay their way, and be law abiding.
> They have to think long and hard before they have a child, but the underclass of this country
> have no such worries. The more children they have, the more money the government gives
> them. In the end, they will overwhelm us unless someone finds an answer.



Sounds like you are being bread away.. The Government wants a population that will be easily controlled. Its all part of the NWO effort.
They forgot about consequences again. 
This same shits been going on in the US for quite some time...


----------



## Ravi

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having an illegal firearm is 'without cause'? Maybe where you live, but not in the UK. They shot first. He's dead. Better him than a police officer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my country, people get arrested for illegal activities. Not executed on the street.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He wasn't 'executed', although I'm sure that sounds much more dramatic than the reality of the situation. He was armed. He had a criminal record. He was known to be potentially violent. Even his family are not outraged about the shooting, they were pissed that the police didn't inform them about what was going on.
Click to expand...

It also appears that the police attempted a cover up. From what I have read a bullet to a police radio was used to excuse their action. But the bullet turns out to be from a police gun.


----------



## Intense

California Girl said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> A few days loss of profit would be cheaper than replacing all the burnt down buildings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not an economist but I wonder if that is right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, it isn't. It would destroy Britain's economy and reputation as a business center for decades.
Click to expand...


Nah. Not if the curfew was for those under 21.


----------



## Intense

Ravi said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> In my country, people get arrested for illegal activities. Not executed on the street.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He wasn't 'executed', although I'm sure that sounds much more dramatic than the reality of the situation. He was armed. He had a criminal record. He was known to be potentially violent. Even his family are not outraged about the shooting, they were pissed that the police didn't inform them about what was going on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It also appears that the police attempted a cover up. From what I have read a bullet to a police radio was used to excuse their action. But the bullet turns out to be from a police gun.
Click to expand...


There was allot of back peddling going on by the police in relation to the shooting. Two shots were fired by the Police, one hit the radio, one hit and killed the suspect, who had in possession a converted starting pistol, which was originally designed to shoot blanks. Probably not accurate beyond close range.

Something was not right there. Still, what was behind this revolt is about so much more than that. There was planning here that has been waiting for such a spark.


----------



## Intense

alexa said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> You say the police have been damaged by unfair criticism and yet it looks like the police did shoot and kill that man without cause.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having an illegal firearm is 'without cause'? Maybe where you live, but not in the UK. They shot first. He's dead. Better him than a police officer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Having a firearm in your sock while you are in a taxi is clearly something the police are not even going to know and this is the very first time I have heard of police in the UK having a policy of 'shoot first'.
> 
> There is definitely something fishy about this shooting.  The police lied at first saying he had shot first.  We now know that is not true.  What has not been cleared up is why the police shot him.
Click to expand...


Agreed.


----------



## alexa

The police seem to be getting more a handle on things.  They have arrested 11 people for trying to organise on facebook including one in Glasgow and one in Dundee

UK riots: Arrests over Facebook &lsquo;incitement&rsquo; to more violence | Metro.co.uk


But they still need to get those blackberry and apple iphones under order.


----------



## English Dave

I stand by what I say about the police, they have an unenviable job, even more so in 
London. They have criminal gangs to deal with their from eastern europe, involved with
forced prostitution, black gangs which is a growing problem, pick pocket gangs and many
others. Now this, massive groups of muggers and thieves. The police get abuse from black
people with their stop and search policy - the reason for this is because most of the muggings
in London are done by black people, so who should they stop and search - little old white
ladies? If a way isn't found to reverse these things, what are we heading for in the future?
Before someone comes on and asks me to prove this, I watched a TV documentary which
said this is so, I'm sure someone with better computer abilities than me can prove this to be
true.


----------



## Intense

English Dave said:


> I stand by what I say about the police, they have an unenviable job, even more so in
> London. They have criminal gangs to deal with their from eastern europe, involved with
> forced prostitution, black gangs which is a growing problem, pick pocket gangs and many
> others. Now this, massive groups of muggers and thieves. The police get abuse from black
> people with their stop and search policy - the reason for this is because most of the muggings
> in London are done by black people, so who should they stop and search - little old white
> ladies? If a way isn't found to reverse these things, what are we heading for in the future?
> Before someone comes on and asks me to prove this, I watched a TV documentary which
> said this is so, I'm sure someone with better computer abilities than me can prove this to be
> true.



Totally understandable. What was not understandable was the false information that got out about the suspect shooting the police radio. However that got out, it was harmful. From my perspective the Riot was a fire waiting for a match to light it. If not this opportunity, it would have been another.


----------



## Ravi

English Dave said:


> I stand by what I say about the police, they have an unenviable job, even more so in
> London. They have criminal gangs to deal with their from eastern europe, involved with
> forced prostitution, black gangs which is a growing problem, pick pocket gangs and many
> others. Now this, massive groups of muggers and thieves. The police get abuse from black
> people with their stop and search policy - the reason for this is because most of the muggings
> in London are done by black people, so who should they stop and search - little old white
> ladies? If a way isn't found to reverse these things, what are we heading for in the future?
> Before someone comes on and asks me to prove this, I watched a TV documentary which
> said this is so, I'm sure someone with better computer abilities than me can prove this to be
> true.



Since you don't answer questions I can only conclude that you are a troll.

Dismissed.


----------



## alexa

English Dave said:


> I stand by what I say about the police, they have an unenviable job, even more so in
> London. They have criminal gangs to deal with their from eastern europe, involved with
> forced prostitution, black gangs which is a growing problem, pick pocket gangs and many
> others. Now this, massive groups of muggers and thieves. The police get abuse from black
> people with their stop and search policy - the reason for this is because most of the muggings
> in London are done by black people, so who should they stop and search - little old white
> ladies? If a way isn't found to reverse these things, what are we heading for in the future?
> Before someone comes on and asks me to prove this, I watched a TV documentary which
> said this is so, I'm sure someone with better computer abilities than me can prove this to be
> true.



I seem to remember stop and search had something to do with the 81 riots

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv0VXGvhW3c]&#x202a;Black Youth Rise Up: Summer of 1981&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]

Here is a guy who was involved in '81 Brixton.  The reporter clearly does not know him.

he says



> They have been stopping and searching the young for no reason.  I have a grandson.  The police slapped him up against the wall and searched him.....I asked him how many times have the police searched you and he said 'papa, I can't even count, there are so many times



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biJgILxGK0o&feature=aso]&#x202a;London Riots. (The BBC will never replay this. Send it out)&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]

As for racism in the Met.  Unfortunately not yet a thing of the past


Metropolitan Police faces influx of racism claims following Tarique Ghaffur case - Telegraph

Racism 'alive and vile' in Metropolitan Police, says Boris Johnson - Times Online

BBC News - Metropolitan Police 'still institutionally racist'


----------



## High_Gravity

English Dave said:


> I stand by what I say about the police, they have an unenviable job, even more so in
> London. They have criminal gangs to deal with their from eastern europe, involved with
> forced prostitution, black gangs which is a growing problem, pick pocket gangs and many
> others. Now this, massive groups of muggers and thieves. The police get abuse from black
> people with their stop and search policy - the reason for this is because most of the muggings
> in London are done by black people, so who should they stop and search - little old white
> ladies? If a way isn't found to reverse these things, what are we heading for in the future?
> Before someone comes on and asks me to prove this, I watched a TV documentary which
> said this is so, I'm sure someone with better computer abilities than me can prove this to be
> true.



It seems to me that you are trying really hard to pin this on the Black people in the UK, I don't live there but from what I have seen Black people are not alone in these riots, in the pics I saw online I see alot of whites and Arabs as well.


----------



## St.Blues

High_Gravity said:


> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> I stand by what I say about the police, they have an unenviable job, even more so in
> London. They have criminal gangs to deal with their from eastern europe, involved with
> forced prostitution, black gangs which is a growing problem, pick pocket gangs and many
> others. Now this, massive groups of muggers and thieves. The police get abuse from black
> people with their stop and search policy - the reason for this is because most of the muggings
> in London are done by black people, so who should they stop and search - little old white
> ladies? If a way isn't found to reverse these things, what are we heading for in the future?
> Before someone comes on and asks me to prove this, I watched a TV documentary which
> said this is so, I'm sure someone with better computer abilities than me can prove this to be
> true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems to me that you are trying really hard to pin this on the Black people in the UK, I don't live there but from what I have seen Black people are not alone in these riots, in the pics I saw online I see alot of whites and Arabs as well.
Click to expand...


Good morning High... It was a mix of assholes. This shouldn't be pinned on any race.
The way I see it is these people are sick and tired of the oppression and mistreatment from the government and police. Although damage was done... It may have been for a dam good reason. Personally I can't stand the British Government. Look at their history?
They're the worlds fucking asshole!


----------



## English Dave

Ravi called me a troll - I don't even know what that is!! This is the first time I've got involved
in a discussion like this. Not being very good with computers, I still did look online for 
evidence of what I say. I quote from the Mailonline: Police hold black men responsible for
more than two thirds of shootings and more than half of robberies and street crimes in 
London according to figures released by Scotland Yard in 2009-10. This is what I mean, this
is what we're dealing with in this country today. In Manchester last night a lot of the thieves
were white, I know perfectly well not all our problems are caused by black people, but in 
London they are a big problem. But why should English people who never wanted or asked
for the massive immigration we've had suffer in this way?


----------



## Colin

St.Blues said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> I stand by what I say about the police, they have an unenviable job, even more so in
> London. They have criminal gangs to deal with their from eastern europe, involved with
> forced prostitution, black gangs which is a growing problem, pick pocket gangs and many
> others. Now this, massive groups of muggers and thieves. The police get abuse from black
> people with their stop and search policy - the reason for this is because most of the muggings
> in London are done by black people, so who should they stop and search - little old white
> ladies? If a way isn't found to reverse these things, what are we heading for in the future?
> Before someone comes on and asks me to prove this, I watched a TV documentary which
> said this is so, I'm sure someone with better computer abilities than me can prove this to be
> true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems to me that you are trying really hard to pin this on the Black people in the UK, I don't live there but from what I have seen Black people are not alone in these riots, in the pics I saw online I see alot of whites and Arabs as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good morning High... It was a mix of assholes. This shouldn't be pinned on any race.
> The way I see it is these people are sick and tired of the oppression and mistreatment from the government and police. Although damage was done... It may have been for a dam good reason. Personally I can't stand the British Government. Look at their history?
> They're the worlds fucking asshole!
Click to expand...


Oppression and mistreatment from the government! Give me a fucking break! All I hear are excuses from some for the behaviour of these mindless lowlifes. I have watched the interviews with them. I come across them in real life. They are sociopaths. There are no fucking excuses for them. For every one of these lowlife bastards there are 100 from the same background who are decent and law abiding young people! 

I couldn't give a fuck whether you can stand the British government. You clearly know fuck all about my country anyway. And before you refer to us as the world's fucking arsehole perhaps you need to take a fucking step back and look inwards!


----------



## High_Gravity

St.Blues said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> I stand by what I say about the police, they have an unenviable job, even more so in
> London. They have criminal gangs to deal with their from eastern europe, involved with
> forced prostitution, black gangs which is a growing problem, pick pocket gangs and many
> others. Now this, massive groups of muggers and thieves. The police get abuse from black
> people with their stop and search policy - the reason for this is because most of the muggings
> in London are done by black people, so who should they stop and search - little old white
> ladies? If a way isn't found to reverse these things, what are we heading for in the future?
> Before someone comes on and asks me to prove this, I watched a TV documentary which
> said this is so, I'm sure someone with better computer abilities than me can prove this to be
> true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems to me that you are trying really hard to pin this on the Black people in the UK, I don't live there but from what I have seen Black people are not alone in these riots, in the pics I saw online I see alot of whites and Arabs as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good morning High... It was a mix of assholes. This shouldn't be pinned on any race.
> The way I see it is these people are sick and tired of the oppression and mistreatment from the government and police. Although damage was done... It may have been for a dam good reason. Personally I can't stand the British Government. Look at their history?
> They're the worlds fucking asshole!
Click to expand...


I don't really know for sure why the rioters are unhappy I never lived in England just stopped through there a few times back when I was in the service to and from deployments, all I know is that its not just Blacks rioting and causing all this chaos, this crowd is fairly diverse and there are alot of whites involved as well.


----------



## St.Blues

Colin said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems to me that you are trying really hard to pin this on the Black people in the UK, I don't live there but from what I have seen Black people are not alone in these riots, in the pics I saw online I see alot of whites and Arabs as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good morning High... It was a mix of assholes. This shouldn't be pinned on any race.
> The way I see it is these people are sick and tired of the oppression and mistreatment from the government and police. Although damage was done... It may have been for a dam good reason. Personally I can't stand the British Government. Look at their history?
> They're the worlds fucking asshole!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oppression and mistreatment from the government! Give me a fucking break! All I hear are excuses from some for the behaviour of these mindless lowlifes. I have watched the interviews with them. I come across them in real life. They are sociopaths. There are no fucking excuses for them. For every one of these lowlife bastards there are 100 from the same background who are decent and law abiding young people!
> 
> I couldn't give a fuck whether you can stand the British government. You clearly know fuck all about my country anyway. And before you refer to us as the world's fucking arsehole perhaps you need to take a fucking step back and look inwards!
Click to expand...


Colin, The post had nothing to do with you or the Citizens of England. You're Government Sucks and they're convincing our Government to be just the same. 

Blues


----------



## alexa

English Dave said:


> Ravi called me a troll - I don't even know what that is!! This is the first time I've got involved
> in a discussion like this. Not being very good with computers, I still did look online for
> evidence of what I say. I quote from the Mailonline: Police hold black men responsible for
> more than two thirds of shootings and more than half of robberies and street crimes in
> London according to figures released by Scotland Yard in 2009-10. This is what I mean, this
> is what we're dealing with in this country today. In Manchester last night a lot of the thieves
> were white, I know perfectly well not all our problems are caused by black people, but in
> London they are a big problem. But why should English people who never wanted or asked
> for the massive immigration we've had suffer in this way?



BNP I imagine rather than EDL


----------



## Colin

St.Blues said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good morning High... It was a mix of assholes. This shouldn't be pinned on any race.
> The way I see it is these people are sick and tired of the oppression and mistreatment from the government and police. Although damage was done... It may have been for a dam good reason. Personally I can't stand the British Government. Look at their history?
> They're the worlds fucking asshole!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oppression and mistreatment from the government! Give me a fucking break! All I hear are excuses from some for the behaviour of these mindless lowlifes. I have watched the interviews with them. I come across them in real life. They are sociopaths. There are no fucking excuses for them. For every one of these lowlife bastards there are 100 from the same background who are decent and law abiding young people!
> 
> I couldn't give a fuck whether you can stand the British government. You clearly know fuck all about my country anyway. And before you refer to us as the world's fucking arsehole perhaps you need to take a fucking step back and look inwards!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Colin, The post had nothing to do with you or the Citizens of England. You're Government Sucks and they're convincing our Government to be just the same.
> 
> Blues
Click to expand...


I am no fan of politicians, but you want to position our government as the arsehole of the world...expect me to come back! And as for blamig it on oppression and mistreatment...well, you just show your ignorance. Sorry, but there it is.


----------



## California Girl

St.Blues said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> I stand by what I say about the police, they have an unenviable job, even more so in
> London. They have criminal gangs to deal with their from eastern europe, involved with
> forced prostitution, black gangs which is a growing problem, pick pocket gangs and many
> others. Now this, massive groups of muggers and thieves. The police get abuse from black
> people with their stop and search policy - the reason for this is because most of the muggings
> in London are done by black people, so who should they stop and search - little old white
> ladies? If a way isn't found to reverse these things, what are we heading for in the future?
> Before someone comes on and asks me to prove this, I watched a TV documentary which
> said this is so, I'm sure someone with better computer abilities than me can prove this to be
> true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems to me that you are trying really hard to pin this on the Black people in the UK, I don't live there but from what I have seen Black people are not alone in these riots, in the pics I saw online I see alot of whites and Arabs as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good morning High... It was a mix of assholes. This shouldn't be pinned on any race.
> The way I see it is these people are sick and tired of the oppression and mistreatment from the government and police. Although damage was done... It may have been for a dam good reason. Personally I can't stand the British Government. Look at their history?
> They're the worlds fucking asshole!
Click to expand...


If that's the way you see it, Blues, then you are wrong. Even the little thugs themselves don't know why. The media has asked quite a few of them. 

And the British Government is not the 'worlds fucking asshole'. Their Government is actually about like ours - pretty crap - but a whole hell of a lot better than a host of other countries around the globe. 

Think logically, then post. Thanks.


----------



## High_Gravity

Colin said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems to me that you are trying really hard to pin this on the Black people in the UK, I don't live there but from what I have seen Black people are not alone in these riots, in the pics I saw online I see alot of whites and Arabs as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good morning High... It was a mix of assholes. This shouldn't be pinned on any race.
> The way I see it is these people are sick and tired of the oppression and mistreatment from the government and police. Although damage was done... It may have been for a dam good reason. Personally I can't stand the British Government. Look at their history?
> They're the worlds fucking asshole!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oppression and mistreatment from the government! Give me a fucking break! All I hear are excuses from some for the behaviour of these mindless lowlifes. I have watched the interviews with them. I come across them in real life. They are sociopaths. There are no fucking excuses for them. For every one of these lowlife bastards there are 100 from the same background who are decent and law abiding young people!
> 
> I couldn't give a fuck whether you can stand the British government. You clearly know fuck all about my country anyway. And before you refer to us as the world's fucking arsehole perhaps you need to take a fucking step back and look inwards!
Click to expand...


Colin is there any rioting in your area? are people able to go to work with all this shit going on?


----------



## Swagger

High_Gravity said:


> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> I stand by what I say about the police, they have an unenviable job, even more so in
> London. They have criminal gangs to deal with their from eastern europe, involved with
> forced prostitution, black gangs which is a growing problem, pick pocket gangs and many
> others. Now this, massive groups of muggers and thieves. The police get abuse from black
> people with their stop and search policy - the reason for this is because most of the muggings
> in London are done by black people, so who should they stop and search - little old white
> ladies? If a way isn't found to reverse these things, what are we heading for in the future?
> Before someone comes on and asks me to prove this, I watched a TV documentary which
> said this is so, I'm sure someone with better computer abilities than me can prove this to be
> true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *It seems to me that you are trying really hard to pin this on the Black people in the UK*, I don't live there but from what I have seen Black people are not alone in these riots, in the pics I saw online I see alot of whites and Arabs as well.
Click to expand...


Sorry, High_Gravity, I'm afraid users can't provide links to the public's feelings/observations at street level. But I can tell you that the visible majority of violent crime at street level in the UK is perpetrated by young black men who know full well that the organisation(s) tasked to enforce the law is so stigmatised by racism (justifiably so, in some cases). This stigma is compounded by the fact that police forces across the UK are staffed predominately by whites (though the UK is, demographically/ethnically speaking, a predominantly caucasian country) who can easily be tarnished as racists by those acting on behalf of the accused. The very utterance of the word 'racist', or the slightest suggestion of 'racism' is so tipped in the favour of minorities that it frequently obstructs common sense - in this case the informal questioning and legally permissable search of a young black man on the street who is (consiously or not) exhibitting suspicious behaviour, thus warranting their temporary, ad hoc detention by police officers patrolling the area. And the undeniable fact that is obvious to anyone that walks the street in the UK (and the US, for that matter) is that a conspicuous majority of young black men are seemingly eager to impress upon strangers via clothing, ostentatious jewllery, stature and anything else at their disposal that will exude a comparatively negative, that they're easily provoked and will meet any slight against their person with aggression. This, I'm willing to concede, is a survival instinct all in itself. 

In short, it's otherwise entirely natural for a police officer to stop and question anyone that fits the profile (regardless of race) of the criminals they're tasked with monitoring, arresting and bringing to justice. But since the concept of racism has been blown out of all proportion, the ordinary police officer is justifiably reluctant to be vilified in the press as a racist, which will often precede the loss of their job or suspension from duty, if they're lucky. This atmosphere is what's hindering the police in putting a stop to the riots and looting that's happening all over the UK. All parties involved know that the majority of the perpetrators are black, and don't don't want to be photographed executing tough measures for the fear of being on the front pages of the tabloid and left-wing press under the headline: 'Racist police target black man'. Until such a time has passed that the accusation of racism can be refuted before a board, committee or whatever who won't in turn be vilified as a result of a not guilty verdict, the accusation of racism will remain an understandable fear, and hinder the those tasked with making or executing unenviable decisions.


----------



## Ravi

Blagger said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> I stand by what I say about the police, they have an unenviable job, even more so in
> London. They have criminal gangs to deal with their from eastern europe, involved with
> forced prostitution, black gangs which is a growing problem, pick pocket gangs and many
> others. Now this, massive groups of muggers and thieves. The police get abuse from black
> people with their stop and search policy - the reason for this is because most of the muggings
> in London are done by black people, so who should they stop and search - little old white
> ladies? If a way isn't found to reverse these things, what are we heading for in the future?
> Before someone comes on and asks me to prove this, I watched a TV documentary which
> said this is so, I'm sure someone with better computer abilities than me can prove this to be
> true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *It seems to me that you are trying really hard to pin this on the Black people in the UK*, I don't live there but from what I have seen Black people are not alone in these riots, in the pics I saw online I see alot of whites and Arabs as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, High_Gravity, I'm afraid users can't provide links to the public's feelings/observations at street level. But I can tell you that the visible majority of violent crime at street level in the UK is perpetrated by young black men who know full well that the organisation(s) tasked to enforce the law is so stigmatised by racism (justifiably so, in some cases). This stigma is compounded by the fact that police forces across the UK are staffed predominately by whites (though the UK is, demographically/ethnically speaking, a predominantly caucasian country) who can easily be tarnished as racists by those acting on behalf of the accused. The very utterance of the word 'racist', or the slightest suggestion of 'racism' is so tipped in the favour of minorities that it frequently obstructs common sense - in this case the informal questioning and legally permissable search of a young black man on the street who is (consiously or not) exhibitting suspicious behaviour, thus warranting their temporary, ad hoc detention by police officers patrolling the area. And the undeniable fact that is obvious to anyone that walks the street in the UK (and the US, for that matter) is that a conspicuous majority of young black men are seemingly eager to impress upon strangers via clothing, ostentatious jewllery, stature and anything else at their disposal that will exude a comparatively negative, that they're easily provoked and will meet any slight against their person with aggression. This, I'm willing to concede, is a survival instinct all in itself.
> 
> In short, it's otherwise entirely natural for a police officer to stop and question anyone that fits the profile (regardless of race) of the criminals they're tasked with monitoring, arresting and bringing to justice. But since the concept of racism has been blown out of all proportion, the ordinary police officer is justifiably reluctant to be vilified in the press as a racist, which will often precede the loss of their job or suspension from duty, if they're lucky. This atmosphere is what's hindering the police in putting a stop to the riots and looting that's happening all over the UK. All parties involved know that the majority of the perpetrators are black, and don't don't want to be photographed executing tough measures for the fear of being on the front pages of the tabloid and left-wing press under the headline: 'Racist police target black man'. Until such a time has passed that the accusation of racism can be refuted before a board, committee or whatever who won't in turn be vilified as a result of a not guilty verdict, the accusation of racism will remain an understandable fear, and hinder the those tasked with making or executing unenviable decisions.
Click to expand...


What a bunch of bullshit. We've all seen the pictures, it is a combination of idiots across the racial spectrum.

It is also true that a black man was killed for apparently no reason.

Instead of the British police cowering in fear about being labeled racist, why don't they impose curfews and arrest anyone on the street after dusk? Why don't they disable the cell phone web that apparently lets the rioters plan their attacks? 

They appear as a bunch of hand-wringing pussies.


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> Blagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> *It seems to me that you are trying really hard to pin this on the Black people in the UK*, I don't live there but from what I have seen Black people are not alone in these riots, in the pics I saw online I see alot of whites and Arabs as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, High_Gravity, I'm afraid users can't provide links to the public's feelings/observations at street level. But I can tell you that the visible majority of violent crime at street level in the UK is perpetrated by young black men who know full well that the organisation(s) tasked to enforce the law is so stigmatised by racism (justifiably so, in some cases). This stigma is compounded by the fact that police forces across the UK are staffed predominately by whites (though the UK is, demographically/ethnically speaking, a predominantly caucasian country) who can easily be tarnished as racists by those acting on behalf of the accused. The very utterance of the word 'racist', or the slightest suggestion of 'racism' is so tipped in the favour of minorities that it frequently obstructs common sense - in this case the informal questioning and legally permissable search of a young black man on the street who is (consiously or not) exhibitting suspicious behaviour, thus warranting their temporary, ad hoc detention by police officers patrolling the area. And the undeniable fact that is obvious to anyone that walks the street in the UK (and the US, for that matter) is that a conspicuous majority of young black men are seemingly eager to impress upon strangers via clothing, ostentatious jewllery, stature and anything else at their disposal that will exude a comparatively negative, that they're easily provoked and will meet any slight against their person with aggression. This, I'm willing to concede, is a survival instinct all in itself.
> 
> In short, it's otherwise entirely natural for a police officer to stop and question anyone that fits the profile (regardless of race) of the criminals they're tasked with monitoring, arresting and bringing to justice. But since the concept of racism has been blown out of all proportion, the ordinary police officer is justifiably reluctant to be vilified in the press as a racist, which will often precede the loss of their job or suspension from duty, if they're lucky. This atmosphere is what's hindering the police in putting a stop to the riots and looting that's happening all over the UK. All parties involved know that the majority of the perpetrators are black, and don't don't want to be photographed executing tough measures for the fear of being on the front pages of the tabloid and left-wing press under the headline: 'Racist police target black man'. Until such a time has passed that the accusation of racism can be refuted before a board, committee or whatever who won't in turn be vilified as a result of a not guilty verdict, the accusation of racism will remain an understandable fear, and hinder the those tasked with making or executing unenviable decisions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a bunch of bullshit. We've all seen the pictures, it is a combination of idiots across the racial spectrum.
> 
> It is also true that a black man was killed for apparently no reason.
> 
> Instead of the British police cowering in fear about being labeled racist, why don't they impose curfews and arrest anyone on the street after dusk? Why don't they disable the cell phone web that apparently lets the rioters plan their attacks?
> 
> They appear as a bunch of hand-wringing pussies.
Click to expand...


I agree that blagger's bullshit is, indeed, bullshit.... but.... and it is a but of significant size.... it is not true that 'a black man was killed for apparently no reason'. He just didn't shoot first. He was armed. That is reason enough for the police to use deadly force. That's not 'no reason', it is 'a good reason'. 

The police are not 'cowering in fear', they are doing exactly what they are employed to do. UK police is 'policing by consent' not by Government. Big difference.... if you don't believe me, I suggest you read up on 'policing by consent'. 

They can't impose a curfew. That is just a bit of spin from some no mark politician who wants to get some air time on the back of a crisis. SOP for politicians the world over. 

As for the ridiculous idea of 'disabling' the mobile network... really, sweetie, think it through... you think the government should take down the whole country's mobile network.... with the impact on business, and the lives of other law abiding citizens? 

Sledgehammer - meet nut.


----------



## Colin

High_Gravity said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good morning High... It was a mix of assholes. This shouldn't be pinned on any race.
> The way I see it is these people are sick and tired of the oppression and mistreatment from the government and police. Although damage was done... It may have been for a dam good reason. Personally I can't stand the British Government. Look at their history?
> They're the worlds fucking asshole!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oppression and mistreatment from the government! Give me a fucking break! All I hear are excuses from some for the behaviour of these mindless lowlifes. I have watched the interviews with them. I come across them in real life. They are sociopaths. There are no fucking excuses for them. For every one of these lowlife bastards there are 100 from the same background who are decent and law abiding young people!
> 
> I couldn't give a fuck whether you can stand the British government. You clearly know fuck all about my country anyway. And before you refer to us as the world's fucking arsehole perhaps you need to take a fucking step back and look inwards!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Colin is there any rioting in your area? are people able to go to work with all this shit going on?
Click to expand...


No rioting in my neck of the woods, HG, but we do have a very swish shopping centre down town, so who knows. Perhaps the scumbags will decide to do their 'shopping' here sooner or later. Our police will be ready for them though, as no doubt will the squaddies who drink in our pubs. We're not far from Aldershot garrison town. I'm sure they would welcome the opportunity of some recreational unarmed combat!


----------



## St.Blues

California Girl said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems to me that you are trying really hard to pin this on the Black people in the UK, I don't live there but from what I have seen Black people are not alone in these riots, in the pics I saw online I see alot of whites and Arabs as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good morning High... It was a mix of assholes. This shouldn't be pinned on any race.
> The way I see it is these people are sick and tired of the oppression and mistreatment from the government and police. Although damage was done... It may have been for a dam good reason. Personally I can't stand the British Government. Look at their history?
> They're the worlds fucking asshole!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If that's the way you see it, Blues, then you are wrong. Even the little thugs themselves don't know why. The media has asked quite a few of them.
> 
> And the British Government is not the 'worlds fucking asshole'. Their Government is actually about like ours - pretty crap - but a whole hell of a lot better than a host of other countries around the globe.
> 
> Think logically, then post. Thanks.
Click to expand...


This liberal bullshit is causing havoc.. There and in the USA.. The two Governments are joined at the hip now. They're selling us out. They are deliberately causing this kind of crap.. People are angry.. This is the result and its nowhere near over. This is just the beginning both in England and in the US. 
My issue is never with people.. Its with powerful Governments and the Media.
I stand by my opinion.

Blues


----------



## alexa

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, High_Gravity, I'm afraid users can't provide links to the public's feelings/observations at street level. But I can tell you that the visible majority of violent crime at street level in the UK is perpetrated by young black men who know full well that the organisation(s) tasked to enforce the law is so stigmatised by racism (justifiably so, in some cases). This stigma is compounded by the fact that police forces across the UK are staffed predominately by whites (though the UK is, demographically/ethnically speaking, a predominantly caucasian country) who can easily be tarnished as racists by those acting on behalf of the accused. The very utterance of the word 'racist', or the slightest suggestion of 'racism' is so tipped in the favour of minorities that it frequently obstructs common sense - in this case the informal questioning and legally permissable search of a young black man on the street who is (consiously or not) exhibitting suspicious behaviour, thus warranting their temporary, ad hoc detention by police officers patrolling the area. And the undeniable fact that is obvious to anyone that walks the street in the UK (and the US, for that matter) is that a conspicuous majority of young black men are seemingly eager to impress upon strangers via clothing, ostentatious jewllery, stature and anything else at their disposal that will exude a comparatively negative, that they're easily provoked and will meet any slight against their person with aggression. This, I'm willing to concede, is a survival instinct all in itself.
> 
> In short, it's otherwise entirely natural for a police officer to stop and question anyone that fits the profile (regardless of race) of the criminals they're tasked with monitoring, arresting and bringing to justice. But since the concept of racism has been blown out of all proportion, the ordinary police officer is justifiably reluctant to be vilified in the press as a racist, which will often precede the loss of their job or suspension from duty, if they're lucky. This atmosphere is what's hindering the police in putting a stop to the riots and looting that's happening all over the UK. All parties involved know that the majority of the perpetrators are black, and don't don't want to be photographed executing tough measures for the fear of being on the front pages of the tabloid and left-wing press under the headline: 'Racist police target black man'. Until such a time has passed that the accusation of racism can be refuted before a board, committee or whatever who won't in turn be vilified as a result of a not guilty verdict, the accusation of racism will remain an understandable fear, and hinder the those tasked with making or executing unenviable decisions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a bunch of bullshit. We've all seen the pictures, it is a combination of idiots across the racial spectrum.
> 
> It is also true that a black man was killed for apparently no reason.
> 
> Instead of the British police cowering in fear about being labeled racist, why don't they impose curfews and arrest anyone on the street after dusk? Why don't they disable the cell phone web that apparently lets the rioters plan their attacks?
> 
> They appear as a bunch of hand-wringing pussies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree that blagger's bullshit is, indeed, bullshit.... but.... and it is a but of significant size.... it is not true that 'a black man was killed for apparently no reason'. He just didn't shoot first. He was armed. *That is reason enough for the police to use deadly force. That's not 'no reason', it is 'a good reason'. *
> 
> 
> 
> :
Click to expand...


Something found after the fact is not a good reason to kill someone.  No, the fact that he had a gun in his sock will not be acceptable as a reason. He clearly was not an imminent danger to them and they clearly do not have eyes which can see through cars to his sock.

That issue is not solved.  The police still have to provide an acceptable reason for killing him and while that one may be acceptable to you personally, it is not as per British Justice.  We do not as you said, shoot first.


----------



## High_Gravity

Blagger said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> I stand by what I say about the police, they have an unenviable job, even more so in
> London. They have criminal gangs to deal with their from eastern europe, involved with
> forced prostitution, black gangs which is a growing problem, pick pocket gangs and many
> others. Now this, massive groups of muggers and thieves. The police get abuse from black
> people with their stop and search policy - the reason for this is because most of the muggings
> in London are done by black people, so who should they stop and search - little old white
> ladies? If a way isn't found to reverse these things, what are we heading for in the future?
> Before someone comes on and asks me to prove this, I watched a TV documentary which
> said this is so, I'm sure someone with better computer abilities than me can prove this to be
> true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *It seems to me that you are trying really hard to pin this on the Black people in the UK*, I don't live there but from what I have seen Black people are not alone in these riots, in the pics I saw online I see alot of whites and Arabs as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, High_Gravity, I'm afraid users can't provide links to the public's feelings/observations at street level. But I can tell you that the visible majority of violent crime at street level in the UK is perpetrated by young black men who know full well that the organisation(s) tasked to enforce the law is so stigmatised by racism (justifiably so, in some cases). This stigma is compounded by the fact that police forces across the UK are staffed predominately by whites (though the UK is, demographically/ethnically speaking, a predominantly caucasian country) who can easily be tarnished as racists by those acting on behalf of the accused. The very utterance of the word 'racist', or the slightest suggestion of 'racism' is so tipped in the favour of minorities that it frequently obstructs common sense - in this case the informal questioning and legally permissable search of a young black man on the street who is (consiously or not) exhibitting suspicious behaviour, thus warranting their temporary, ad hoc detention by police officers patrolling the area. And the undeniable fact that is obvious to anyone that walks the street in the UK (and the US, for that matter) is that a conspicuous majority of young black men are seemingly eager to impress upon strangers via clothing, ostentatious jewllery, stature and anything else at their disposal that will exude a comparatively negative, that they're easily provoked and will meet any slight against their person with aggression. This, I'm willing to concede, is a survival instinct all in itself.
> 
> In short, it's otherwise entirely natural for a police officer to stop and question anyone that fits the profile (regardless of race) of the criminals they're tasked with monitoring, arresting and bringing to justice. But since the concept of racism has been blown out of all proportion, the ordinary police officer is justifiably reluctant to be vilified in the press as a racist, which will often precede the loss of their job or suspension from duty, if they're lucky. This atmosphere is what's hindering the police in putting a stop to the riots and looting that's happening all over the UK. All parties involved know that the majority of the perpetrators are black, and don't don't want to be photographed executing tough measures for the fear of being on the front pages of the tabloid and left-wing press under the headline: 'Racist police target black man'. Until such a time has passed that the accusation of racism can be refuted before a board, committee or whatever who won't in turn be vilified as a result of a not guilty verdict, the accusation of racism will remain an understandable fear, and hinder the those tasked with making or executing unenviable decisions.
Click to expand...


If this is the case why does the mob seem so ethnically diverse? why are there alot of whites involved in the riots?


----------



## California Girl

St.Blues said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good morning High... It was a mix of assholes. This shouldn't be pinned on any race.
> The way I see it is these people are sick and tired of the oppression and mistreatment from the government and police. Although damage was done... It may have been for a dam good reason. Personally I can't stand the British Government. Look at their history?
> They're the worlds fucking asshole!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that's the way you see it, Blues, then you are wrong. Even the little thugs themselves don't know why. The media has asked quite a few of them.
> 
> And the British Government is not the 'worlds fucking asshole'. Their Government is actually about like ours - pretty crap - but a whole hell of a lot better than a host of other countries around the globe.
> 
> Think logically, then post. Thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This liberal bullshit is causing havoc.. There and in the USA.. The two Governments are joined at the hip now. They're selling us out. They are deliberately causing this kind of crap.. People are angry.. This is the result and its nowhere near over. This is just the beginning both in England and in the US.
> My issue is never with people.. Its with powerful Governments and the Media.
> I stand by my opinion.
> 
> Blues
Click to expand...


Liberal policies are a huge part of the problem, I agree. But rationally speaking, our governments are not 'fucking worlds assholes'.... that would be... say.... Zimbabwe, China, Russia, most Islamic countries, etc etc etc. Rational thought - use it.


----------



## Swagger

Ravi said:


> Blagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> *It seems to me that you are trying really hard to pin this on the Black people in the UK*, I don't live there but from what I have seen Black people are not alone in these riots, in the pics I saw online I see alot of whites and Arabs as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, High_Gravity, I'm afraid users can't provide links to the public's feelings/observations at street level. But I can tell you that the visible majority of violent crime at street level in the UK is perpetrated by young black men who know full well that the organisation(s) tasked to enforce the law is so stigmatised by racism (justifiably so, in some cases). This stigma is compounded by the fact that police forces across the UK are staffed predominately by whites (though the UK is, demographically/ethnically speaking, a predominantly caucasian country) who can easily be tarnished as racists by those acting on behalf of the accused. The very utterance of the word 'racist', or the slightest suggestion of 'racism' is so tipped in the favour of minorities that it frequently obstructs common sense - in this case the informal questioning and legally permissable search of a young black man on the street who is (consiously or not) exhibitting suspicious behaviour, thus warranting their temporary, ad hoc detention by police officers patrolling the area. And the undeniable fact that is obvious to anyone that walks the street in the UK (and the US, for that matter) is that a conspicuous majority of young black men are seemingly eager to impress upon strangers via clothing, ostentatious jewllery, stature and anything else at their disposal that will exude a comparatively negative, that they're easily provoked and will meet any slight against their person with aggression. This, I'm willing to concede, is a survival instinct all in itself.
> 
> In short, it's otherwise entirely natural for a police officer to stop and question anyone that fits the profile (regardless of race) of the criminals they're tasked with monitoring, arresting and bringing to justice. But since the concept of racism has been blown out of all proportion, the ordinary police officer is justifiably reluctant to be vilified in the press as a racist, which will often precede the loss of their job or suspension from duty, if they're lucky. This atmosphere is what's hindering the police in putting a stop to the riots and looting that's happening all over the UK. All parties involved know that the majority of the perpetrators are black, and don't don't want to be photographed executing tough measures for the fear of being on the front pages of the tabloid and left-wing press under the headline: 'Racist police target black man'. Until such a time has passed that the accusation of racism can be refuted before a board, committee or whatever who won't in turn be vilified as a result of a not guilty verdict, the accusation of racism will remain an understandable fear, and hinder the those tasked with making or executing unenviable decisions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a bunch of bullshit. We've all seen the pictures, it is a combination of idiots across the racial spectrum.
> 
> It is also true that a black man was killed for apparently no reason.
> 
> Instead of the British police cowering in fear about being labeled racist, why don't they impose curfews and arrest anyone on the street after dusk? Why don't they disable the cell phone web that apparently lets the rioters plan their attacks?
> 
> They appear as a bunch of hand-wringing pussies.
Click to expand...


The pictures mainly originate from sources that follow an editorial bias, like The Guardian, for instance. I understand that blacks have been joined by thugs of all ethnicities but that still doesn't dimiss the fact that the instigators of all this rampaging destruction were mainly black.

Duggen was killed because what he had in his possession posed a threat. He was armed with an illegal weapon that is beyond the normal reach of anyone wanting to counter such a portable threat. OK, recent reports indicate that he didn't fire upon the police. But he still possessed an illegal weapon that, by its very nature, the person carrying it would know that they'd be met with stiff resistence in doing so, possibly fatal, which was the case here. I can only ask you cease making yourself look even more stupid than you already are by not defending the indefensible.

I agree that curfews would be helpful, but I also believe that more aggressive measures would put a sooner stop to this chaos. The COBRA Committee has just sanctioned the deployment of water canons and baton rounds. This is a decision that I, along with any other sane individual, support. I suspect that such measures will send a very clear message to rioters and thieves that fire will be fought with fire, thus putting an an eventual stop to all this madness sooner than a soft approach i.e - curfews.

Disabling an already encrypted network would help, but it would also indirectly hinder law-abiding citizens. Though I hope that the Blackberry BM network records are examined during the ensuing insuing inquiry.


----------



## St.Blues

alexa said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a bunch of bullshit. We've all seen the pictures, it is a combination of idiots across the racial spectrum.
> 
> It is also true that a black man was killed for apparently no reason.
> 
> Instead of the British police cowering in fear about being labeled racist, why don't they impose curfews and arrest anyone on the street after dusk? Why don't they disable the cell phone web that apparently lets the rioters plan their attacks?
> 
> They appear as a bunch of hand-wringing pussies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that blagger's bullshit is, indeed, bullshit.... but.... and it is a but of significant size.... it is not true that 'a black man was killed for apparently no reason'. He just didn't shoot first. He was armed. *That is reason enough for the police to use deadly force. That's not 'no reason', it is 'a good reason'. *
> 
> 
> 
> :
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Something found after the fact is not a good reason to kill someone.  No, the fact that he had a gun in his sock will not be acceptable as a reason. He clearly was not an imminent danger to them and they clearly do not have eyes which can see through cars to his sock.
> 
> That issue is not solved.  The police still have to provide an acceptable reason for killing him and while that one may be acceptable to you personally, it is not as per British Justice.  We do not as you said, shoot first.
Click to expand...


I agree.... What it has lead to is what I have been saying about the British and US Governments.
They have caused anger in the people.. All they needed was something like this to happen and they're set off. Its taken years for it to come to this... It didn't just happen over night or in a moment.

Blues


----------



## California Girl

alexa said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a bunch of bullshit. We've all seen the pictures, it is a combination of idiots across the racial spectrum.
> 
> It is also true that a black man was killed for apparently no reason.
> 
> Instead of the British police cowering in fear about being labeled racist, why don't they impose curfews and arrest anyone on the street after dusk? Why don't they disable the cell phone web that apparently lets the rioters plan their attacks?
> 
> They appear as a bunch of hand-wringing pussies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that blagger's bullshit is, indeed, bullshit.... but.... and it is a but of significant size.... it is not true that 'a black man was killed for apparently no reason'. He just didn't shoot first. He was armed. *That is reason enough for the police to use deadly force. That's not 'no reason', it is 'a good reason'. *
> 
> 
> 
> :
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Something found after the fact is not a good reason to kill someone.  No, the fact that he had a gun in his sock will not be acceptable as a reason. He clearly was not an imminent danger to them and they clearly do not have eyes which can see through cars to his sock.
> 
> That issue is not solved.  The police still have to provide an acceptable reason for killing him and while that one may be acceptable to you personally, it is not as per British Justice.  We do not as you said, shoot first.
Click to expand...


It's called 'intelligence led policing'. They didn't just find some guy and think 'hey, let's shoot him'. They had the intel on him. They knew - for a fact - that he was armed. On the day that you face the same threats that the police face every day, I'll value your opinion. Until then, I will dismiss you as an overly opinionated, facts be damned, fool. Social scientists....


----------



## California Girl

St.Blues said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that blagger's bullshit is, indeed, bullshit.... but.... and it is a but of significant size.... it is not true that 'a black man was killed for apparently no reason'. He just didn't shoot first. He was armed. *That is reason enough for the police to use deadly force. That's not 'no reason', it is 'a good reason'. *
> 
> 
> 
> :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Something found after the fact is not a good reason to kill someone.  No, the fact that he had a gun in his sock will not be acceptable as a reason. He clearly was not an imminent danger to them and they clearly do not have eyes which can see through cars to his sock.
> 
> That issue is not solved.  The police still have to provide an acceptable reason for killing him and while that one may be acceptable to you personally, it is not as per British Justice.  We do not as you said, shoot first.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree.... What it has lead to is what I have been saying about the British and US Governments.
> They have caused anger in the people.. All they needed was something like this to happen and they're set off. Its taken years for it to come to this... It didn't just happen over night or in a moment.
> 
> Blues
Click to expand...


Yea... that's smart.... agree with someone who has no fucking idea of the facts of this situation....


----------



## Swagger

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, High_Gravity, I'm afraid users can't provide links to the public's feelings/observations at street level. But I can tell you that the visible majority of violent crime at street level in the UK is perpetrated by young black men who know full well that the organisation(s) tasked to enforce the law is so stigmatised by racism (justifiably so, in some cases). This stigma is compounded by the fact that police forces across the UK are staffed predominately by whites (though the UK is, demographically/ethnically speaking, a predominantly caucasian country) who can easily be tarnished as racists by those acting on behalf of the accused. The very utterance of the word 'racist', or the slightest suggestion of 'racism' is so tipped in the favour of minorities that it frequently obstructs common sense - in this case the informal questioning and legally permissable search of a young black man on the street who is (consiously or not) exhibitting suspicious behaviour, thus warranting their temporary, ad hoc detention by police officers patrolling the area. And the undeniable fact that is obvious to anyone that walks the street in the UK (and the US, for that matter) is that a conspicuous majority of young black men are seemingly eager to impress upon strangers via clothing, ostentatious jewllery, stature and anything else at their disposal that will exude a comparatively negative, that they're easily provoked and will meet any slight against their person with aggression. This, I'm willing to concede, is a survival instinct all in itself.
> 
> In short, it's otherwise entirely natural for a police officer to stop and question anyone that fits the profile (regardless of race) of the criminals they're tasked with monitoring, arresting and bringing to justice. But since the concept of racism has been blown out of all proportion, the ordinary police officer is justifiably reluctant to be vilified in the press as a racist, which will often precede the loss of their job or suspension from duty, if they're lucky. This atmosphere is what's hindering the police in putting a stop to the riots and looting that's happening all over the UK. All parties involved know that the majority of the perpetrators are black, and don't don't want to be photographed executing tough measures for the fear of being on the front pages of the tabloid and left-wing press under the headline: 'Racist police target black man'. Until such a time has passed that the accusation of racism can be refuted before a board, committee or whatever who won't in turn be vilified as a result of a not guilty verdict, the accusation of racism will remain an understandable fear, and hinder the those tasked with making or executing unenviable decisions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a bunch of bullshit. We've all seen the pictures, it is a combination of idiots across the racial spectrum.
> 
> It is also true that a black man was killed for apparently no reason.
> 
> Instead of the British police cowering in fear about being labeled racist, why don't they impose curfews and arrest anyone on the street after dusk? Why don't they disable the cell phone web that apparently lets the rioters plan their attacks?
> 
> They appear as a bunch of hand-wringing pussies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree that blagger's bullshit is, indeed, bullshit.... but.... and it is a but of significant size.... it is not true that 'a black man was killed for apparently no reason'. He just didn't shoot first. He was armed. That is reason enough for the police to use deadly force. That's not 'no reason', it is 'a good reason'.
> 
> The police are not 'cowering in fear', they are doing exactly what they are employed to do. UK police is 'policing by consent' not by Government. Big difference.... if you don't believe me, I suggest you read up on 'policing by consent'.
> 
> They can't impose a curfew. That is just a bit of spin from some no mark politician who wants to get some air time on the back of a crisis. SOP for politicians the world over.
> 
> As for the ridiculous idea of 'disabling' the mobile network... really, sweetie, think it through... you think the government should take down the whole country's mobile network.... with the impact on business, and the lives of other law abiding citizens?
> 
> Sledgehammer - meet nut.
Click to expand...


If you think that what I've written (at length, I admit) is "bullshit", then counter it without resorting to such sweeping generalisations. Though in truth I reckon you've only echoed Ravi ignorant dismissal so as not to incur her disapproval.


----------



## Ravi

Blagger said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, High_Gravity, I'm afraid users can't provide links to the public's feelings/observations at street level. But I can tell you that the visible majority of violent crime at street level in the UK is perpetrated by young black men who know full well that the organisation(s) tasked to enforce the law is so stigmatised by racism (justifiably so, in some cases). This stigma is compounded by the fact that police forces across the UK are staffed predominately by whites (though the UK is, demographically/ethnically speaking, a predominantly caucasian country) who can easily be tarnished as racists by those acting on behalf of the accused. The very utterance of the word 'racist', or the slightest suggestion of 'racism' is so tipped in the favour of minorities that it frequently obstructs common sense - in this case the informal questioning and legally permissable search of a young black man on the street who is (consiously or not) exhibitting suspicious behaviour, thus warranting their temporary, ad hoc detention by police officers patrolling the area. And the undeniable fact that is obvious to anyone that walks the street in the UK (and the US, for that matter) is that a conspicuous majority of young black men are seemingly eager to impress upon strangers via clothing, ostentatious jewllery, stature and anything else at their disposal that will exude a comparatively negative, that they're easily provoked and will meet any slight against their person with aggression. This, I'm willing to concede, is a survival instinct all in itself.
> 
> In short, it's otherwise entirely natural for a police officer to stop and question anyone that fits the profile (regardless of race) of the criminals they're tasked with monitoring, arresting and bringing to justice. But since the concept of racism has been blown out of all proportion, the ordinary police officer is justifiably reluctant to be vilified in the press as a racist, which will often precede the loss of their job or suspension from duty, if they're lucky. This atmosphere is what's hindering the police in putting a stop to the riots and looting that's happening all over the UK. All parties involved know that the majority of the perpetrators are black, and don't don't want to be photographed executing tough measures for the fear of being on the front pages of the tabloid and left-wing press under the headline: 'Racist police target black man'. Until such a time has passed that the accusation of racism can be refuted before a board, committee or whatever who won't in turn be vilified as a result of a not guilty verdict, the accusation of racism will remain an understandable fear, and hinder the those tasked with making or executing unenviable decisions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a bunch of bullshit. We've all seen the pictures, it is a combination of idiots across the racial spectrum.
> 
> It is also true that a black man was killed for apparently no reason.
> 
> Instead of the British police cowering in fear about being labeled racist, why don't they impose curfews and arrest anyone on the street after dusk? Why don't they disable the cell phone web that apparently lets the rioters plan their attacks?
> 
> They appear as a bunch of hand-wringing pussies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The pictures mainly originate from sources that follow an editorial bias, like The Guardian, for instance. I understand that blacks have been joined by thugs of all ethnicities but that still doesn't dimiss the fact that the instigators of all this rampaging destruction were mainly black.
> 
> Duggen was killed because what he had in his possession posed a threat. He was armed with an illegal weapon that is beyond the normal reach of anyone wanting to counter such a portable threat. OK, recent reports indicate that he didn't fire upon the police. But he still possessed an illegal weapon that, by its very nature, the person carrying it would know that they'd be met with stiff resistence in doing so, possibly fatal, which was the case here. I can only ask you cease making yourself look even more stupid than you already are by not defending the indefensible.
> 
> I agree that curfews would be helpful, but I also believe that more aggressive measures would put a sooner stop to this chaos. The COBRA Committee has just sanctioned the deployment of water canons and baton rounds. This is a decision that I, along with any other sane individual, support. I suspect that such measures will send a very clear message to rioters and thieves that fire will be fought with fire, thus putting an an eventual stop to all this madness sooner than a soft approach i.e - curfews.
> 
> Disabling an already encrypted network would help, but it would also indirectly hinder law-abiding citizens. Though I hope that the Blackberry BM network records are examined during the ensuing insuing inquiry.
Click to expand...


In times of emergency people are usually willing to give up convenience.

I say you are full of shit. The pictures we've seen are real. It is not only blacks that are acting like fucktards.

From reports, Duggan was killed as part of an attempted arrest. There was no evidence his gun was fired. Heck, there is no evidence that the gun was even his as far as I can tell. Sure, he sounded like a nasty bugger, but on the street executions are never right without a damn good reason.


----------



## Swagger

Ravi said:


> Blagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a bunch of bullshit. We've all seen the pictures, it is a combination of idiots across the racial spectrum.
> 
> It is also true that a black man was killed for apparently no reason.
> 
> Instead of the British police cowering in fear about being labeled racist, why don't they impose curfews and arrest anyone on the street after dusk? Why don't they disable the cell phone web that apparently lets the rioters plan their attacks?
> 
> They appear as a bunch of hand-wringing pussies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The pictures mainly originate from sources that follow an editorial bias, like The Guardian, for instance. I understand that blacks have been joined by thugs of all ethnicities but that still doesn't dimiss the fact that the instigators of all this rampaging destruction were mainly black.
> 
> Duggen was killed because what he had in his possession posed a threat. He was armed with an illegal weapon that is beyond the normal reach of anyone wanting to counter such a portable threat. OK, recent reports indicate that he didn't fire upon the police. But he still possessed an illegal weapon that, by its very nature, the person carrying it would know that they'd be met with stiff resistence in doing so, possibly fatal, which was the case here. I can only ask you cease making yourself look even more stupid than you already are by not defending the indefensible.
> 
> I agree that curfews would be helpful, but I also believe that more aggressive measures would put a sooner stop to this chaos. The COBRA Committee has just sanctioned the deployment of water canons and baton rounds. This is a decision that I, along with any other sane individual, support. I suspect that such measures will send a very clear message to rioters and thieves that fire will be fought with fire, thus putting an an eventual stop to all this madness sooner than a soft approach i.e - curfews.
> 
> Disabling an already encrypted network would help, but it would also indirectly hinder law-abiding citizens. Though I hope that the Blackberry BM network records are examined during the ensuing insuing inquiry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In times of emergency people are usually willing to give up convenience.
> 
> I say you are full of shit. The pictures we've seen are real. It is not only blacks that are acting like fucktards.
> 
> From reports, Duggan was killed as part of an attempted arrest. There was no evidence his gun was fired. Heck, there is no evidence that the gun was even his as far as I can tell. Sure, he sounded like a nasty bugger, but on the street executions are never right without a damn good reason.
Click to expand...


"Execution"? No, Ravi, there was no execution. There was the fatal removal of a very viable threat. He wasn't executed, however which way you attempt to suggest otherwise.


----------



## alexa

California Girl said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Something found after the fact is not a good reason to kill someone.  No, the fact that he had a gun in his sock will not be acceptable as a reason. He clearly was not an imminent danger to them and they clearly do not have eyes which can see through cars to his sock.
> 
> That issue is not solved.  The police still have to provide an acceptable reason for killing him and while that one may be acceptable to you personally, it is not as per British Justice.  We do not as you said, shoot first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree.... What it has lead to is what I have been saying about the British and US Governments.
> They have caused anger in the people.. All they needed was something like this to happen and they're set off. Its taken years for it to come to this... It didn't just happen over night or in a moment.
> 
> Blues
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yea... that's smart.... agree with someone who has no fucking idea of the facts of this situation....
Click to expand...

Well I clearly have more knowledge than you.  You believe police in the UK can just shoot at anyone they want and if it is found out later the person is a criminal then all is well.

I happen to know that is not so.


----------



## alexa

St.Blues said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that blagger's bullshit is, indeed, bullshit.... but.... and it is a but of significant size.... it is not true that 'a black man was killed for apparently no reason'. He just didn't shoot first. He was armed. *That is reason enough for the police to use deadly force. That's not 'no reason', it is 'a good reason'. *
> 
> 
> 
> :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Something found after the fact is not a good reason to kill someone.  No, the fact that he had a gun in his sock will not be acceptable as a reason. He clearly was not an imminent danger to them and they clearly do not have eyes which can see through cars to his sock.
> 
> That issue is not solved.  The police still have to provide an acceptable reason for killing him and while that one may be acceptable to you personally, it is not as per British Justice.  We do not as you said, shoot first.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree.... What it has lead to is what I have been saying about the British and US Governments.
> They have caused anger in the people.. All they needed was something like this to happen and they're set off. Its taken years for it to come to this... It didn't just happen over night or in a moment.
> 
> Blues
Click to expand...


I possibly agree.  I think with us it comes from when we started buying into American ideology in the '80's.  It is not just one thing, there are several things which need to be looked into.  The RW's are going crazy.  Screaming 'scum' and 'no reason' and without question a great deal, but not all of it is just mindless looting and thuggery.

That does not mean, as the RW's claim that there is not underlying issues which need to be addressed with the marginalised and the young who see no hope.


----------



## Colin

Ravi said:


> Blagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a bunch of bullshit. We've all seen the pictures, it is a combination of idiots across the racial spectrum.
> 
> It is also true that a black man was killed for apparently no reason.
> 
> Instead of the British police cowering in fear about being labeled racist, why don't they impose curfews and arrest anyone on the street after dusk? Why don't they disable the cell phone web that apparently lets the rioters plan their attacks?
> 
> They appear as a bunch of hand-wringing pussies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The pictures mainly originate from sources that follow an editorial bias, like The Guardian, for instance. I understand that blacks have been joined by thugs of all ethnicities but that still doesn't dimiss the fact that the instigators of all this rampaging destruction were mainly black.
> 
> Duggen was killed because what he had in his possession posed a threat. He was armed with an illegal weapon that is beyond the normal reach of anyone wanting to counter such a portable threat. OK, recent reports indicate that he didn't fire upon the police. But he still possessed an illegal weapon that, by its very nature, the person carrying it would know that they'd be met with stiff resistence in doing so, possibly fatal, which was the case here. I can only ask you cease making yourself look even more stupid than you already are by not defending the indefensible.
> 
> I agree that curfews would be helpful, but I also believe that more aggressive measures would put a sooner stop to this chaos. The COBRA Committee has just sanctioned the deployment of water canons and baton rounds. This is a decision that I, along with any other sane individual, support. I suspect that such measures will send a very clear message to rioters and thieves that fire will be fought with fire, thus putting an an eventual stop to all this madness sooner than a soft approach i.e - curfews.
> 
> Disabling an already encrypted network would help, but it would also indirectly hinder law-abiding citizens. Though I hope that the Blackberry BM network records are examined during the ensuing insuing inquiry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In times of emergency people are usually willing to give up convenience.
> 
> I say you are full of shit. The pictures we've seen are real. It is not only blacks that are acting like fucktards.
> 
> From reports, Duggan was killed as part of an attempted arrest. There was no evidence his gun was fired. Heck, there is no evidence that the gun was even his as far as I can tell. Sure, he sounded like a nasty bugger, but on the street executions are never right without a damn good reason.
Click to expand...


Perhaps, rather than speculating on the actual events it would be wise to wait for the results of the inquiry. I would add that if anyone is seen HOLDING or pointing a gun and he refuses to drop it when warned, it is entirely legitimate for him to be shot.


----------



## California Girl

Colin said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The pictures mainly originate from sources that follow an editorial bias, like The Guardian, for instance. I understand that blacks have been joined by thugs of all ethnicities but that still doesn't dimiss the fact that the instigators of all this rampaging destruction were mainly black.
> 
> Duggen was killed because what he had in his possession posed a threat. He was armed with an illegal weapon that is beyond the normal reach of anyone wanting to counter such a portable threat. OK, recent reports indicate that he didn't fire upon the police. But he still possessed an illegal weapon that, by its very nature, the person carrying it would know that they'd be met with stiff resistence in doing so, possibly fatal, which was the case here. I can only ask you cease making yourself look even more stupid than you already are by not defending the indefensible.
> 
> I agree that curfews would be helpful, but I also believe that more aggressive measures would put a sooner stop to this chaos. The COBRA Committee has just sanctioned the deployment of water canons and baton rounds. This is a decision that I, along with any other sane individual, support. I suspect that such measures will send a very clear message to rioters and thieves that fire will be fought with fire, thus putting an an eventual stop to all this madness sooner than a soft approach i.e - curfews.
> 
> Disabling an already encrypted network would help, but it would also indirectly hinder law-abiding citizens. Though I hope that the Blackberry BM network records are examined during the ensuing insuing inquiry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In times of emergency people are usually willing to give up convenience.
> 
> I say you are full of shit. The pictures we've seen are real. It is not only blacks that are acting like fucktards.
> 
> From reports, Duggan was killed as part of an attempted arrest. There was no evidence his gun was fired. Heck, there is no evidence that the gun was even his as far as I can tell. Sure, he sounded like a nasty bugger, but on the street executions are never right without a damn good reason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Perhaps, rather than speculating on the actual events it would be wise to wait for the results of the inquiry. I would add that if anyone is seen HOLDING or pointing a gun and he refuses to drop it when warned, it is entirely legitimate for him to be shot.
Click to expand...


Or.... if that person is firmly linked to other firearms offenses and 'intelligence led policing' has confirmed that he is armed. And....oh what a surprise.... he was actually armed.


----------



## English Dave

Someone a few pages back quoted one of my comments,and put BNP? This is shameful,
but, as usual this is what people like that person say when someone speaks the truth as
they see it. Another favourite is racist. My father and his brother, and my wife's father
fought fascism in the second world war - you think I'd vote for fascists?  I'm tired of seeing
my country shown all over the world in this light. Every riot in my memory has been started
by blacks or asians. I saw my home town 10 years ago blow up with asian unrest. I never
hoped or wanted things to turn out like this. I hoped many years ago this would never come
to pass. We have enough trouble trying to deal with the white trash like we saw on TV last
night, without people constantly defending minorities actions. Do you see people from India
rioting? Or chinese? Or poles? The English people are sick with worry of what's coming in the
future - does that make us racists?


----------



## Ravi

Colin said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The pictures mainly originate from sources that follow an editorial bias, like The Guardian, for instance. I understand that blacks have been joined by thugs of all ethnicities but that still doesn't dimiss the fact that the instigators of all this rampaging destruction were mainly black.
> 
> Duggen was killed because what he had in his possession posed a threat. He was armed with an illegal weapon that is beyond the normal reach of anyone wanting to counter such a portable threat. OK, recent reports indicate that he didn't fire upon the police. But he still possessed an illegal weapon that, by its very nature, the person carrying it would know that they'd be met with stiff resistence in doing so, possibly fatal, which was the case here. I can only ask you cease making yourself look even more stupid than you already are by not defending the indefensible.
> 
> I agree that curfews would be helpful, but I also believe that more aggressive measures would put a sooner stop to this chaos. The COBRA Committee has just sanctioned the deployment of water canons and baton rounds. This is a decision that I, along with any other sane individual, support. I suspect that such measures will send a very clear message to rioters and thieves that fire will be fought with fire, thus putting an an eventual stop to all this madness sooner than a soft approach i.e - curfews.
> 
> Disabling an already encrypted network would help, but it would also indirectly hinder law-abiding citizens. Though I hope that the Blackberry BM network records are examined during the ensuing insuing inquiry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In times of emergency people are usually willing to give up convenience.
> 
> I say you are full of shit. The pictures we've seen are real. It is not only blacks that are acting like fucktards.
> 
> From reports, Duggan was killed as part of an attempted arrest. There was no evidence his gun was fired. Heck, there is no evidence that the gun was even his as far as I can tell. Sure, he sounded like a nasty bugger, but on the street executions are never right without a damn good reason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Perhaps, rather than speculating on the actual events it would be wise to wait for the results of the inquiry. I would add that if anyone is seen HOLDING or pointing a gun and he refuses to drop it when warned, it is entirely legitimate for him to be shot.
Click to expand...


The police should have said that to begin with. Instead they claimed he shot at them and that doesn't appear to be the case.


----------



## Ravi

English Dave said:


> Someone a few pages back quoted one of my comments,and put BNP? This is shameful,
> but, as usual this is what people like that person say when someone speaks the truth as
> they see it. Another favourite is racist. My father and his brother, and my wife's father
> fought fascism in the second world war - you think I'd vote for fascists?  I'm tired of seeing
> my country shown all over the world in this light. Every riot in my memory has been started
> by blacks or asians. I saw my home town 10 years ago blow up with asian unrest. I never
> hoped or wanted things to turn out like this. I hoped many years ago this would never come
> to pass. We have enough trouble trying to deal with the white trash like we saw on TV last
> night, without people constantly defending minorities actions. Do you see people from India
> rioting? Or chinese? Or poles? The English people are sick with worry of what's coming in the
> future - does that make us racists?


Are you Swaggart's live in lover?


----------



## Colin

English Dave said:


> Someone a few pages back quoted one of my comments,and put BNP? This is shameful,
> but, as usual this is what people like that person say when someone speaks the truth as
> they see it. Another favourite is racist. My father and his brother, and my wife's father
> fought fascism in the second world war - you think I'd vote for fascists?  I'm tired of seeing
> my country shown all over the world in this light. Every riot in my memory has been started
> by blacks or asians. I saw my home town 10 years ago blow up with asian unrest. I never
> hoped or wanted things to turn out like this. I hoped many years ago this would never come
> to pass. We have enough trouble trying to deal with the white trash like we saw on TV last
> night, without people constantly defending minorities actions. Do you see people from India
> rioting? Or chinese? Or poles? The English people are sick with worry of what's coming in the
> future - does that make us racists?



Only to bleeding heart social workers! After all, without claiming it isn't the fault of these poor little lowlifes, they would have no job!


----------



## High_Gravity

English Dave said:


> Someone a few pages back quoted one of my comments,and put BNP? This is shameful,
> but, as usual this is what people like that person say when someone speaks the truth as
> they see it. Another favourite is racist. My father and his brother, and my wife's father
> fought fascism in the second world war - you think I'd vote for fascists?  I'm tired of seeing
> my country shown all over the world in this light. Every riot in my memory has been started
> by blacks or asians. I saw my home town 10 years ago blow up with asian unrest. I never
> hoped or wanted things to turn out like this. I hoped many years ago this would never come
> to pass. We have enough trouble trying to deal with the white trash like we saw on TV last
> night, without people constantly defending minorities actions. Do you see people from India
> rioting? Or chinese? Or poles? The English people are sick with worry of what's coming in the
> future - does that make us racists?



So all the problems in England is because of asians and Blacks?


----------



## Colin

High_Gravity said:


> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> Someone a few pages back quoted one of my comments,and put BNP? This is shameful,
> but, as usual this is what people like that person say when someone speaks the truth as
> they see it. Another favourite is racist. My father and his brother, and my wife's father
> fought fascism in the second world war - you think I'd vote for fascists?  I'm tired of seeing
> my country shown all over the world in this light. Every riot in my memory has been started
> by blacks or asians. I saw my home town 10 years ago blow up with asian unrest. I never
> hoped or wanted things to turn out like this. I hoped many years ago this would never come
> to pass. We have enough trouble trying to deal with the white trash like we saw on TV last
> night, without people constantly defending minorities actions. Do you see people from India
> rioting? Or chinese? Or poles? The English people are sick with worry of what's coming in the
> future - does that make us racists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So all the problems in England is because of asians and Blacks?
Click to expand...


No, but a lot of problems are due to the uncontrolled immigration of the last ten years. Another legacy dumped on us by the Labour party.


----------



## WillowTree

Ravi said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> You say the police have been damaged by unfair criticism and yet it looks like the police did shoot and kill that man without cause.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having an illegal firearm is 'without cause'? Maybe where you live, but not in the UK. They shot first. He's dead. Better him than a police officer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In my country, people get arrested for illegal activities. Not executed on the street.
Click to expand...


Liar. in your country and mine the thugs walk right up to policemen and execute them in the street.


----------



## High_Gravity

Colin said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> Someone a few pages back quoted one of my comments,and put BNP? This is shameful,
> but, as usual this is what people like that person say when someone speaks the truth as
> they see it. Another favourite is racist. My father and his brother, and my wife's father
> fought fascism in the second world war - you think I'd vote for fascists?  I'm tired of seeing
> my country shown all over the world in this light. Every riot in my memory has been started
> by blacks or asians. I saw my home town 10 years ago blow up with asian unrest. I never
> hoped or wanted things to turn out like this. I hoped many years ago this would never come
> to pass. We have enough trouble trying to deal with the white trash like we saw on TV last
> night, without people constantly defending minorities actions. Do you see people from India
> rioting? Or chinese? Or poles? The English people are sick with worry of what's coming in the
> future - does that make us racists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So all the problems in England is because of asians and Blacks?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, but a lot of problems are due to the uncontrolled immigration of the last ten years. Another legacy dumped on us by the Labour party.
Click to expand...


That is true.


----------



## WillowTree

High_Gravity said:


> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> Someone a few pages back quoted one of my comments,and put BNP? This is shameful,
> but, as usual this is what people like that person say when someone speaks the truth as
> they see it. Another favourite is racist. My father and his brother, and my wife's father
> fought fascism in the second world war - you think I'd vote for fascists?  I'm tired of seeing
> my country shown all over the world in this light. Every riot in my memory has been started
> by blacks or asians. I saw my home town 10 years ago blow up with asian unrest. I never
> hoped or wanted things to turn out like this. I hoped many years ago this would never come
> to pass. We have enough trouble trying to deal with the white trash like we saw on TV last
> night, without people constantly defending minorities actions. Do you see people from India
> rioting? Or chinese? Or poles? The English people are sick with worry of what's coming in the
> future - does that make us racists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So all the problems in England is because of asians and Blacks?
Click to expand...


He didn't say that jackrabbit.


----------



## High_Gravity

WillowTree said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> Someone a few pages back quoted one of my comments,and put BNP? This is shameful,
> but, as usual this is what people like that person say when someone speaks the truth as
> they see it. Another favourite is racist. My father and his brother, and my wife's father
> fought fascism in the second world war - you think I'd vote for fascists?  I'm tired of seeing
> my country shown all over the world in this light. Every riot in my memory has been started
> by blacks or asians. I saw my home town 10 years ago blow up with asian unrest. I never
> hoped or wanted things to turn out like this. I hoped many years ago this would never come
> to pass. We have enough trouble trying to deal with the white trash like we saw on TV last
> night, without people constantly defending minorities actions. Do you see people from India
> rioting? Or chinese? Or poles? The English people are sick with worry of what's coming in the
> future - does that make us racists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So all the problems in England is because of asians and Blacks?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He didn't say that jackrabbit.
Click to expand...


Yes, he did.


----------



## WillowTree

Colin said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oppression and mistreatment from the government! Give me a fucking break! All I hear are excuses from some for the behaviour of these mindless lowlifes. I have watched the interviews with them. I come across them in real life. They are sociopaths. There are no fucking excuses for them. For every one of these lowlife bastards there are 100 from the same background who are decent and law abiding young people!
> 
> I couldn't give a fuck whether you can stand the British government. You clearly know fuck all about my country anyway. And before you refer to us as the world's fucking arsehole perhaps you need to take a fucking step back and look inwards!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colin, The post had nothing to do with you or the Citizens of England. You're Government Sucks and they're convincing our Government to be just the same.
> 
> Blues
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am no fan of politicians, but you want to position our government as the arsehole of the world...expect me to come back! And as for blamig it on oppression and mistreatment...well, you just show your ignorance. Sorry, but there it is.
Click to expand...


I'm with you bud, Remember when the illegals Mexicans marched in the Streets of America protesting AMERICA and Flying the Mexican flag? Me? I lost all sympathy for illegal immigrants and thier illegal actions.


----------



## Swagger

Ravi said:


> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> Someone a few pages back quoted one of my comments,and put BNP? This is shameful,
> but, as usual this is what people like that person say when someone speaks the truth as
> they see it. Another favourite is racist. My father and his brother, and my wife's father
> fought fascism in the second world war - you think I'd vote for fascists?  I'm tired of seeing
> my country shown all over the world in this light. Every riot in my memory has been started
> by blacks or asians. I saw my home town 10 years ago blow up with asian unrest. I never
> hoped or wanted things to turn out like this. I hoped many years ago this would never come
> to pass. We have enough trouble trying to deal with the white trash like we saw on TV last
> night, without people constantly defending minorities actions. Do you see people from India
> rioting? Or chinese? Or poles? The English people are sick with worry of what's coming in the
> future - does that make us racists?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you Swaggart's live in lover?
Click to expand...


Predictably pathetic on your part, Ravi. But then I suppose that's all we can expect from someone who's resorted to deflection after they're unable to offer any reasonable rebuttal. I accept your tacitly offered surrender, young lady. Although that won't prevent me from pitying you.


----------



## syrenn

California Girl said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, wasn't it Australia that was your penal colony? That worked out real well... for Australia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Australia was indeed our penal colony.  I was talking about deporting citizens.  Highlanders were sent to the US.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They lucked out. Trace them and ask. As did the 'criminals' y'all deported to Australia. Look how many Brits are applying to get into Australia now. No disrespect intended - I love Britain.
Click to expand...


traitor!


----------



## Wicked Jester

Ravi said:


> Blagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a bunch of bullshit. We've all seen the pictures, it is a combination of idiots across the racial spectrum.
> 
> It is also true that a black man was killed for apparently no reason.
> 
> Instead of the British police cowering in fear about being labeled racist, why don't they impose curfews and arrest anyone on the street after dusk? Why don't they disable the cell phone web that apparently lets the rioters plan their attacks?
> 
> They appear as a bunch of hand-wringing pussies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The pictures mainly originate from sources that follow an editorial bias, like The Guardian, for instance. I understand that blacks have been joined by thugs of all ethnicities but that still doesn't dimiss the fact that the instigators of all this rampaging destruction were mainly black.
> 
> Duggen was killed because what he had in his possession posed a threat. He was armed with an illegal weapon that is beyond the normal reach of anyone wanting to counter such a portable threat. OK, recent reports indicate that he didn't fire upon the police. But he still possessed an illegal weapon that, by its very nature, the person carrying it would know that they'd be met with stiff resistence in doing so, possibly fatal, which was the case here. I can only ask you cease making yourself look even more stupid than you already are by not defending the indefensible.
> 
> I agree that curfews would be helpful, but I also believe that more aggressive measures would put a sooner stop to this chaos. The COBRA Committee has just sanctioned the deployment of water canons and baton rounds. This is a decision that I, along with any other sane individual, support. I suspect that such measures will send a very clear message to rioters and thieves that fire will be fought with fire, thus putting an an eventual stop to all this madness sooner than a soft approach i.e - curfews.
> 
> Disabling an already encrypted network would help, but it would also indirectly hinder law-abiding citizens. Though I hope that the Blackberry BM network records are examined during the ensuing insuing inquiry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In times of emergency people are usually willing to give up convenience.
> 
> I say you are full of shit. The pictures we've seen are real. It is not only blacks that are acting like fucktards.
> 
> From reports, Duggan was killed as part of an attempted arrest. There was no evidence his gun was fired. Heck, there is no evidence that the gun was even his as far as I can tell. Sure, he sounded like a nasty bugger, but on the street executions are never right without a damn good reason.
Click to expand...

You are such a loony fuckin' idiot, Ravi.

The dude pulls a gun on cops, cops shoot his sorry ass as they should........GOOD!.....Just one less dirtbag in this world.

You bleeding heart moronic liberals are too much.


----------



## WillowTree

Modbert said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you are so certain of your claims, only proves how out of touch with reality you are. Nothing cultural or racial going on here. Move on now. Got it.  WTFU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She was accusing Muslims of being involved somehow even before she knew what was going on. This much is true. All I see going on in this thread is some people who care less about what's going on in the UK and rather people who just want to blame Blacks and Muslims. Very sad to say the least.
Click to expand...


Hey dumbAss, did you see the post just above this, people were gleeful that the Norway guy was white,, smeared it all over the forum, white christian, so cry us a fucking river now, cause it happens to be blacks and muslims whydonchya?


----------



## Wicked Jester

Colin said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> Someone a few pages back quoted one of my comments,and put BNP? This is shameful,
> but, as usual this is what people like that person say when someone speaks the truth as
> they see it. Another favourite is racist. My father and his brother, and my wife's father
> fought fascism in the second world war - you think I'd vote for fascists?  I'm tired of seeing
> my country shown all over the world in this light. Every riot in my memory has been started
> by blacks or asians. I saw my home town 10 years ago blow up with asian unrest. I never
> hoped or wanted things to turn out like this. I hoped many years ago this would never come
> to pass. We have enough trouble trying to deal with the white trash like we saw on TV last
> night, without people constantly defending minorities actions. Do you see people from India
> rioting? Or chinese? Or poles? The English people are sick with worry of what's coming in the
> future - does that make us racists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So all the problems in England is because of asians and Blacks?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, but a lot of problems are due to the uncontrolled immigration of the last ten years. Another legacy dumped on us by the Labour party.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you all need to do exactly what this great country needs to do........Put AT LEAST a 10 year moratorium on all new immigration to get your house in order and take care of your own, while aggressively going after the illegal dirtbags who are nothing more than common criminals who are breaking the law by being there illegally......And screw what the bleeding hearts have to say about it. They're moronic fools anyway.


----------



## WillowTree

High_Gravity said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> So all the problems in England is because of asians and Blacks?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He didn't say that jackrabbit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, he did.
Click to expand...


no he didn't


----------



## Swagger

Wicked Jester said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> So all the problems in England is because of asians and Blacks?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, but a lot of problems are due to the uncontrolled immigration of the last ten years. Another legacy dumped on us by the Labour party.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sounds like you all need to do exactly what this great country needs to do........*Put AT LEAST a 10 year moratorium on all new immigration to get your house in order and take care of your own*, while aggressively going after the illegal dirtbags who are nothing more than common criminals who are breaking the law by being there illegally......And screw what the bleeding hearts have to say about it. They're moronic fools anyway.
Click to expand...


If only...

Though I can almost guarantee you that there'd be some bleeding heart opposition to such a nugget of sanity. Not borne out of any plea for equality, you understand. No, such opposition would only be borne out of the left's enduring axiom: to appear cool and attract love from the disadvantaged they claim to represent - who, coincidentally, regard them as niave mugs whose policies are ripe for exploitation (but if you tell them that they'll shriek 'racist').


----------



## WillowTree

alexa said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a bunch of bullshit. We've all seen the pictures, it is a combination of idiots across the racial spectrum.
> 
> It is also true that a black man was killed for apparently no reason.
> 
> Instead of the British police cowering in fear about being labeled racist, why don't they impose curfews and arrest anyone on the street after dusk? Why don't they disable the cell phone web that apparently lets the rioters plan their attacks?
> 
> They appear as a bunch of hand-wringing pussies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that blagger's bullshit is, indeed, bullshit.... but.... and it is a but of significant size.... it is not true that 'a black man was killed for apparently no reason'. He just didn't shoot first. He was armed. *That is reason enough for the police to use deadly force. That's not 'no reason', it is 'a good reason'. *
> 
> 
> 
> :
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Something found after the fact is not a good reason to kill someone.  No, the fact that he had a gun in his sock will not be acceptable as a reason. He clearly was not an imminent danger to them and they clearly do not have eyes which can see through cars to his sock.
> 
> That issue is not solved.  The police still have to provide an acceptable reason for killing him and while that one may be acceptable to you personally, it is not as per British Justice.  We do not as you said, shoot first.
Click to expand...


Sounds great donut? It's much more acceptable to have dead policemen innit?


----------



## English Dave

High Gravity, I would'nt dream of trying to get into a verbal dueling match with you, I read
ypur many entries elsewhere and know you would run rings round me. I try to speak the
truth as I see it, I could'nt give a toss about the colour or race of people. I'm only concerned
with their actions, and at 58 years of age, I've seen a lot come and go in my country. I do
not blame muslims and black people for all the ills of my country. We have a massive problem
with white people who don't give a damn. But the massive immigration into my country has
made things much worse. My doctor is black, the local hospital has many asian and black
doctors. But in citiesd like London, Birmingham and others we have had very large 
immigration from people all over the world. Some of them think my country owes them a
living. I'm sorry if this offends some, I can only state what I see with my own eyes.


----------



## WillowTree

English Dave said:


> High Gravity, I would'nt dream of trying to get into a verbal dueling match with you, I read
> ypur many entries elsewhere and know you would run rings round me. I try to speak the
> truth as I see it, I could'nt give a toss about the colour or race of people. I'm only concerned
> with their actions, and at 58 years of age, I've seen a lot come and go in my country. I do
> not blame muslims and black people for all the ills of my country. We have a massive problem
> with white people who don't give a damn. But the massive immigration into my country has
> made things much worse. My doctor is black, the local hospital has many asian and black
> doctors. But in citiesd like London, Birmingham and others we have had very large
> immigration from people all over the world. *Some of them think my country owes them a
> living. I'm sorry if this offends some*, I can only state what I see with my own eyes.



give us some insight on why they think that?


----------



## Swagger

WillowTree said:


> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> High Gravity, I would'nt dream of trying to get into a verbal dueling match with you, I read
> ypur many entries elsewhere and know you would run rings round me. I try to speak the
> truth as I see it, I could'nt give a toss about the colour or race of people. I'm only concerned
> with their actions, and at 58 years of age, I've seen a lot come and go in my country. I do
> not blame muslims and black people for all the ills of my country. We have a massive problem
> with white people who don't give a damn. But the massive immigration into my country has
> made things much worse. My doctor is black, the local hospital has many asian and black
> doctors. But in citiesd like London, Birmingham and others we have had very large
> immigration from people all over the world. *Some of them think my country owes them a
> living. I'm sorry if this offends some*, I can only state what I see with my own eyes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> give us some insight on why they think that?
Click to expand...


A sense of entitlement they think our colonial past should oblige them, mainly. Even though that often violent history of conquest has laid the foundations for the life of humble security they enjoy, before they start making demands on our benefit/welfare system, that is.


----------



## English Dave

We have in this country a guesstimate by politicians 1 million illegal immigrants, on top of
every tom dick and harry from europe who want to come here. French shores are awash
with people from far and wide who make their way through europe to try to get to here.
Why don't they say in Spain? Or France? Because when they get here they plug into our
benefits system and NHS. We can't cope with further immigration, we're struggling to cope
with past immigrants and their children. We are a small island with a quickly growing 
population caused by immigrants. We are seeing the results of past immigration in our cities
and towns. We are heading in some cities to only 50% white English. I believe Leicester is
the first English city to go below 50% white English. It would'nt matter if everybody got
along - they don't. Racial groups in the main live what has been said to be parallel lives. Living
in different parts, and having little to do with each other. The future looks problematic.


----------



## Sky Dancer

WillowTree said:


> Modbert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you are so certain of your claims, only proves how out of touch with reality you are. Nothing cultural or racial going on here. Move on now. Got it.  WTFU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She was accusing Muslims of being involved somehow even before she knew what was going on. This much is true. All I see going on in this thread is some people who care less about what's going on in the UK and rather people who just want to blame Blacks and Muslims. Very sad to say the least.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey dumbAss, did you see the post just above this, people were gleeful that the Norway guy was white,, smeared it all over the forum, white christian, so cry us a fucking river now, cause it happens to be blacks and muslims whydonchya?
Click to expand...


The terrorist act in Norway was committed by a white christian.  The looting and rioting in London is a multi-racial, multi-ethnic phenomenon.

Only racists see it's blacks only who are rioting.


----------



## St.Blues

Will someone intelligent in here just say what they believe the root of the problem is?

and, What should be done to correct it..........

Blues


----------



## High_Gravity

English Dave said:


> High Gravity, I would'nt dream of trying to get into a verbal dueling match with you, I read
> ypur many entries elsewhere and know you would run rings round me. I try to speak the
> truth as I see it, I could'nt give a toss about the colour or race of people. I'm only concerned
> with their actions, and at 58 years of age, I've seen a lot come and go in my country. I do
> not blame muslims and black people for all the ills of my country. We have a massive problem
> with white people who don't give a damn. But the massive immigration into my country has
> made things much worse. My doctor is black, the local hospital has many asian and black
> doctors. But in citiesd like London, Birmingham and others we have had very large
> immigration from people all over the world. Some of them think my country owes them a
> living. I'm sorry if this offends some, I can only state what I see with my own eyes.



Its all good I understand where you are coming from, Englands mass immigration has seemed to cause alot of problems for them.


----------



## syrenn

St.Blues said:


> Will someone intelligent in here just say what they believe the root of the problem is?
> 
> and, What should be done to correct it..........
> 
> Blues




Right now... the reason is 

because they can.... plain and simple.

its not about being poor... its not about race...

its about being out of control... stealing and burning.... simply because the can.


----------



## High_Gravity

WillowTree said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> He didn't say that jackrabbit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, he did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> no he didn't
Click to expand...


Yes he did but its fine.


----------



## yidnar

Sky Dancer said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Modbert said:
> 
> 
> 
> She was accusing Muslims of being involved somehow even before she knew what was going on. This much is true. All I see going on in this thread is some people who care less about what's going on in the UK and rather people who just want to blame Blacks and Muslims. Very sad to say the least.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey dumbAss, did you see the post just above this, people were gleeful that the Norway guy was white,, smeared it all over the forum, white christian, so cry us a fucking river now, cause it happens to be blacks and muslims whydonchya?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The terrorist act in Norway was committed by a white christian.  The looting and rioting in London is a multi-racial, multi-ethnic phenomenon.
> 
> Only racists see it's blacks only who are rioting.
Click to expand...

racist cameras!!!


----------



## yidnar

High_Gravity said:


> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> Someone a few pages back quoted one of my comments,and put BNP? This is shameful,
> but, as usual this is what people like that person say when someone speaks the truth as
> they see it. Another favourite is racist. My father and his brother, and my wife's father
> fought fascism in the second world war - you think I'd vote for fascists?  I'm tired of seeing
> my country shown all over the world in this light. Every riot in my memory has been started
> by blacks or asians. I saw my home town 10 years ago blow up with asian unrest. I never
> hoped or wanted things to turn out like this. I hoped many years ago this would never come
> to pass. We have enough trouble trying to deal with the white trash like we saw on TV last
> night, without people constantly defending minorities actions. Do you see people from India
> rioting? Or chinese? Or poles? The English people are sick with worry of what's coming in the
> future - does that make us racists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So all the problems in England is because of asians and Blacks?
Click to expand...

nah asians are ok


----------



## St.Blues

syrenn said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> Will someone intelligent in here just say what they believe the root of the problem is?
> 
> and, What should be done to correct it..........
> 
> Blues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right now... the reason is
> 
> because they can.... plain and simple.
> 
> its not about being poor... its not about race...
> 
> its about being out of control... stealing and burning.... simply because the can.
Click to expand...


Anybody can lose it and do the wrong thing at anytime... There has to be more to this.

Blues


----------



## High_Gravity

yidnar said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> Someone a few pages back quoted one of my comments,and put BNP? This is shameful,
> but, as usual this is what people like that person say when someone speaks the truth as
> they see it. Another favourite is racist. My father and his brother, and my wife's father
> fought fascism in the second world war - you think I'd vote for fascists?  I'm tired of seeing
> my country shown all over the world in this light. Every riot in my memory has been started
> by blacks or asians. I saw my home town 10 years ago blow up with asian unrest. I never
> hoped or wanted things to turn out like this. I hoped many years ago this would never come
> to pass. We have enough trouble trying to deal with the white trash like we saw on TV last
> night, without people constantly defending minorities actions. Do you see people from India
> rioting? Or chinese? Or poles? The English people are sick with worry of what's coming in the
> future - does that make us racists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So all the problems in England is because of asians and Blacks?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> nah asians are ok
Click to expand...


Fuck you bitch.


----------



## syrenn

St.Blues said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> Will someone intelligent in here just say what they believe the root of the problem is?
> 
> and, What should be done to correct it..........
> 
> Blues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right now... the reason is
> 
> because they can.... plain and simple.
> 
> its not about being poor... its not about race...
> 
> its about being out of control... stealing and burning.... simply because the can.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Anybody can lose it and do the wrong thing at anytime... There has to be more to this.
> 
> Blues
Click to expand...



no its that simple.


----------



## WillowTree

St.Blues said:


> Will someone intelligent in here just say what they believe the root of the problem is?
> 
> and, What should be done to correct it..........
> 
> Blues



I did. Identify them, find them, deport their sorry asses. The don't deserve to live in civilized soicety. they act like animals.


----------



## alexa

syrenn said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right now... the reason is
> 
> because they can.... plain and simple.
> 
> its not about being poor... its not about race...
> 
> its about being out of control... stealing and burning.... simply because the can.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody can lose it and do the wrong thing at anytime... There has to be more to this.
> 
> Blues
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> no its that simple.
Click to expand...


I think this is an excellent article highlighting different aspects.  



> At home, the spectacle of cohesive minority groups  Sikhs or Bangladeshi traders  coming together to protect their property and their church/temple/mosque is both impressive and potentially alarming, though the Guardian centre spread photo on Wednesday  middle-class white folk waving brooms in Clapham Junction  suggests the majority community can do that, too.
> 
> -snip-
> 
> Strange, then, to note  as more and more observers are confirming  that the week's rioters are a pretty mixed bunch in ethnic terms. Even the Daily Mail's ("Years of liberal dogma have spawned a generation of amoral, uneducated.." etc, etc) coverage has belatedly included photos of white rioters and looters, including the now-famous YouTube footage of the white riot victim's backpack being pillaged by one of his own.
> 
> *What we are seeing here, by general consent, is an urban underclass with little or no sense of a stake in society, few ties to their local communities or, very probably, to each other in their feral, fragmented families. "Darren, where did you get those three new bikes?" "Shurrup, mum, I'm listening to me new iPhone."*
> 
> Liberals can legitimately point to their marginalisation in the workforce and at school (some of these kids can barely speak proper English), in part the consequences of globalising economic forces and the evaporation of low-skilled jobs.
> 
> Social conservatives can point to the collapse of family and discipline, happily unaware that capitalism can be pretty devastating to all but the strongest families, both in terms of depressed wage rates and raised expectations
> 
> -snip-
> 
> *London and other troubled inner cities need some answers: firmness against disorder, but also stronger efforts to address underclass issues.*
> 
> -snip-
> 
> *Note that he says the Met police spent a lot of Tuesday rounding up gang leaders. That's another under reported so far aspect of the riots  the role of gangs for once abandoning their narcissistic and petty local rivalries to take on the law and the shops, like minor Afghan warlords uniting against the Russians/Nato.*
> 
> -snip-We have to police our own children, as some parents (too busy looting themselves?) are clearly failing to do. But the law is there to keep streets safe. August still has 21 days to go.



Riots and the righteous: now comes the game of blame | Michael White | Politics | guardian.co.uk


----------



## Swagger

That's odd, Alexa. The notoriously far-left Guardian made no mention of the boy who had his backpack "pillaged" being a rioter when they reported on the outrage yesterday. In fact, they referred to him as an "injured boy". But I suppose that no longer fits their sympathetic agenda towards London's rioting, theiving 'disadvantaged', aka criminals. Far better to label him as a rioter, so as to distract opinion away from the fact that the scum they're defending were caught robbing a bleeding and disorientated boy on camera.


----------



## alexa

Blagger said:


> That's odd, Alexa. The notoriously far-left Guardian made no mention of the boy who had his backpack "pillaged" being a rioter when they reported on the outrage yesterday. In fact, they referred to him as an "injured boy". But I suppose that no longer fits their sympathetic agenda towards London's rioting, theiving 'disadvantaged', aka criminals. Far better to label him as a rioter, so as to distract opinion away from the fact that the scum they're defending were caught robbing a bleeding and disorientated boy on camera.



I did not know whether he was a rioter or not but I did know he was injured.  You are making a fuss over nothing.

If the article had not included the deaths of the 3 people in Birmingham last night and another death, I would have described it as humorous. It had a light hearted slightly tongue in cheek attitude. No sense of humour?


----------



## Sky Dancer

WillowTree said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> Will someone intelligent in here just say what they believe the root of the problem is?
> 
> and, What should be done to correct it..........
> 
> Blues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did. Identify them, find them, deport their sorry asses. The don't deserve to live in civilized soicety. they act like animals.
Click to expand...



And you act like a raving lunatic.  The nature of riots is they are out of control.  You want to control the universe.

You demonize everyone.  You have no business telling anyone who is allowed to live or where.


----------



## Wicked Jester

English Dave said:


> We have in this country a guesstimate by politicians 1 million illegal immigrants, on top of
> every tom dick and harry from europe who want to come here. French shores are awash
> with people from far and wide who make their way through europe to try to get to here.
> Why don't they say in Spain? Or France? Because when they get here they plug into our
> benefits system and NHS. We can't cope with further immigration, we're struggling to cope
> with past immigrants and their children. We are a small island with a quickly growing
> population caused by immigrants. We are seeing the results of past immigration in our cities
> and towns. We are heading in some cities to only 50% white English. I believe Leicester is
> the first English city to go below 50% white English. It would'nt matter if everybody got
> along - they don't. Racial groups in the main live what has been said to be parallel lives. Living
> in different parts, and having little to do with each other. The future looks problematic.


I'll say it again. You all need to do what this great country seriously needs to do. Enact a moratorium on all new immigration for at least 10 years, and aggressivelly pursue the illegalls who are nothing more than common criminals who have no respect for the law simply by being here illegally........Like here, it's time to start looking out for your own, and stop coddling common criminals. And if the bleeding heart liberal idiots don't like it, too fuckin' bad.


----------



## Ravi

Here's yet another reason that I don't understand why the lack of curfew.

He said those retailers can use a piece of 19th-century legislation called the Riot Damages Act to claim money back from the police for failing to protect them  but only if they apply within 14 days. Lowman said his association was trying to get the government to extend that period.

The Associated Press: Riots hit UK economy, from corner shops to tourism


----------



## WillowTree

Blagger said:


> That's odd, Alexa. The notoriously far-left Guardian made no mention of the boy who had his backpack "pillaged" being a rioter when they reported on the outrage yesterday. In fact, they referred to him as an "injured boy". But I suppose that no longer fits their sympathetic agenda towards London's rioting, theiving 'disadvantaged', aka criminals. Far better to label him as a rioter, so as to distract opinion away from the fact that the scum they're defending were caught robbing a bleeding and disorientated boy on camera.



I;m curious. What is the income tax rate in England? Does everyone pay income tax? or is it a progressive tax?


----------



## WillowTree

Ravi said:


> Here's yet another reason that I don't understand why the lack of curfew.
> 
> He said those retailers can use a piece of 19th-century legislation called the Riot Damages Act to claim money back from the police for failing to protect them  but only if they apply within 14 days. Lowman said his association was trying to get the government to extend that period.
> 
> The Associated Press: Riots hit UK economy, from corner shops to tourism



 fucked up innit? we can sue the police and get money if they fail to protect us, but we won't give them the means or the authority to do so, cause if they do so we're gonna fuck up the city and burn it to the ground. fucked up fucked up and more fucked up.


----------



## Swagger

An invaluable online resource that'll determine the likelihood of your neighbourhood being targeted by London's mob.


----------



## WillowTree

Sky Dancer said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> Will someone intelligent in here just say what they believe the root of the problem is?
> 
> and, What should be done to correct it..........
> 
> Blues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did. Identify them, find them, deport their sorry asses. The don't deserve to live in civilized soicety. they act like animals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And you act like a raving lunatic.  The nature of riots is they are out of control.  You want to control the universe.
> 
> You demonize everyone.  You have no business telling anyone who is allowed to live or where.
Click to expand...

 try and stop me bitch.


----------



## Sky Dancer

WillowTree said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did. Identify them, find them, deport their sorry asses. The don't deserve to live in civilized soicety. they act like animals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you act like a raving lunatic.  The nature of riots is they are out of control.  You want to control the universe.
> 
> You demonize everyone.  You have no business telling anyone who is allowed to live or where.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> try and stop me bitch.
Click to expand...


You're definitely unstoppable now.  You're out of control.  I hope you stop before you end up killing someone.

Anger management.


----------



## Sky Dancer

WillowTree said:


> Blagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's odd, Alexa. The notoriously far-left Guardian made no mention of the boy who had his backpack "pillaged" being a rioter when they reported on the outrage yesterday. In fact, they referred to him as an "injured boy". But I suppose that no longer fits their sympathetic agenda towards London's rioting, theiving 'disadvantaged', aka criminals. Far better to label him as a rioter, so as to distract opinion away from the fact that the scum they're defending were caught robbing a bleeding and disorientated boy on camera.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I;m curious. What is the income tax rate in England? Does everyone pay income tax? or is it a progressive tax?
Click to expand...


You don't even live in England, and yet, you think you can control riots there?  What is this, some kind of superpower you have?

Sounds more like delusions of grandeur to me.


----------



## WillowTree

Sky Dancer said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's odd, Alexa. The notoriously far-left Guardian made no mention of the boy who had his backpack "pillaged" being a rioter when they reported on the outrage yesterday. In fact, they referred to him as an "injured boy". But I suppose that no longer fits their sympathetic agenda towards London's rioting, theiving 'disadvantaged', aka criminals. Far better to label him as a rioter, so as to distract opinion away from the fact that the scum they're defending were caught robbing a bleeding and disorientated boy on camera.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I;m curious. What is the income tax rate in England? Does everyone pay income tax? or is it a progressive tax?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't even live in England, and yet, you think you can control riots there?  What is this, some kind of superpower you have?
> 
> Sounds more like delusions of grandeur to me.
Click to expand...


would you stick your head back up your ass? you are much more attractive that way.


----------



## WillowTree

Sky Dancer said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you act like a raving lunatic.  The nature of riots is they are out of control.  You want to control the universe.
> 
> You demonize everyone.  You have no business telling anyone who is allowed to live or where.
> 
> 
> 
> try and stop me bitch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're definitely unstoppable now.  You're out of control.  I hope you stop before you end up killing someone.
> 
> Anger management.
Click to expand...


you drink too much gin


----------



## Sky Dancer

WillowTree said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> try and stop me bitch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're definitely unstoppable now.  You're out of control.  I hope you stop before you end up killing someone.
> 
> Anger management.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you drink too much gin
Click to expand...


No, I don't.  Buddhists avoid the use of intoxicants.

If you're really nosey about what Marie said and did go to her posts, look to her threads from the beginning of when she started to post her in March.

You will find a thread about Buddhism.  She started it for no other reason than to bash Buddhism and convert me to Christianity.

I objected, and I've taken nothing but shit from her christian friends ever since.


----------



## Intense

High_Gravity said:


> Blagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> *It seems to me that you are trying really hard to pin this on the Black people in the UK*, I don't live there but from what I have seen Black people are not alone in these riots, in the pics I saw online I see alot of whites and Arabs as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, High_Gravity, I'm afraid users can't provide links to the public's feelings/observations at street level. But I can tell you that the visible majority of violent crime at street level in the UK is perpetrated by young black men who know full well that the organisation(s) tasked to enforce the law is so stigmatised by racism (justifiably so, in some cases). This stigma is compounded by the fact that police forces across the UK are staffed predominately by whites (though the UK is, demographically/ethnically speaking, a predominantly caucasian country) who can easily be tarnished as racists by those acting on behalf of the accused. The very utterance of the word 'racist', or the slightest suggestion of 'racism' is so tipped in the favour of minorities that it frequently obstructs common sense - in this case the informal questioning and legally permissable search of a young black man on the street who is (consiously or not) exhibitting suspicious behaviour, thus warranting their temporary, ad hoc detention by police officers patrolling the area. And the undeniable fact that is obvious to anyone that walks the street in the UK (and the US, for that matter) is that a conspicuous majority of young black men are seemingly eager to impress upon strangers via clothing, ostentatious jewllery, stature and anything else at their disposal that will exude a comparatively negative, that they're easily provoked and will meet any slight against their person with aggression. This, I'm willing to concede, is a survival instinct all in itself.
> 
> In short, it's otherwise entirely natural for a police officer to stop and question anyone that fits the profile (regardless of race) of the criminals they're tasked with monitoring, arresting and bringing to justice. But since the concept of racism has been blown out of all proportion, the ordinary police officer is justifiably reluctant to be vilified in the press as a racist, which will often precede the loss of their job or suspension from duty, if they're lucky. This atmosphere is what's hindering the police in putting a stop to the riots and looting that's happening all over the UK. All parties involved know that the majority of the perpetrators are black, and don't don't want to be photographed executing tough measures for the fear of being on the front pages of the tabloid and left-wing press under the headline: 'Racist police target black man'. Until such a time has passed that the accusation of racism can be refuted before a board, committee or whatever who won't in turn be vilified as a result of a not guilty verdict, the accusation of racism will remain an understandable fear, and hinder the those tasked with making or executing unenviable decisions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If this is the case why does the mob seem so ethnically diverse? why are there alot of whites involved in the riots?
Click to expand...


Free Stuff???


----------



## Intense

Sky Dancer said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Modbert said:
> 
> 
> 
> She was accusing Muslims of being involved somehow even before she knew what was going on. This much is true. All I see going on in this thread is some people who care less about what's going on in the UK and rather people who just want to blame Blacks and Muslims. Very sad to say the least.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey dumbAss, did you see the post just above this, people were gleeful that the Norway guy was white,, smeared it all over the forum, white christian, so cry us a fucking river now, cause it happens to be blacks and muslims whydonchya?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The terrorist act in Norway was committed by a white christian.  The looting and rioting in London is a multi-racial, multi-ethnic phenomenon.
> 
> Only racists see it's blacks only who are rioting.
Click to expand...


I would make a wild guess here that the Terrorist Act here disqualifies him as a Christian.


----------



## Intense

Sky Dancer said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're definitely unstoppable now.  You're out of control.  I hope you stop before you end up killing someone.
> 
> Anger management.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you drink too much gin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I don't.  Buddhists avoid the use of intoxicants.
> 
> If you're really nosey about what Marie said and did go to her posts, look to her threads from the beginning of when she started to post her in March.
> 
> You will find a thread about Buddhism.  She started it for no other reason than to bash Buddhism and convert me to Christianity.
> 
> I objected, and I've taken nothing but shit from her christian friends ever since.
Click to expand...


Maybe it is more about your rough edges. 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGblsNXkJog&feature=related]&#x202a;Kung Fu Grasshopper&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]
Kung Fu Grasshopper


----------



## St.Blues

WillowTree said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's yet another reason that I don't understand why the lack of curfew.
> 
> He said those retailers can use a piece of 19th-century legislation called the Riot Damages Act to claim money back from the police for failing to protect them  but only if they apply within 14 days. Lowman said his association was trying to get the government to extend that period.
> 
> The Associated Press: Riots hit UK economy, from corner shops to tourism
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fucked up innit? we can sue the police and get money if they fail to protect us, but we won't give them the means or the authority to do so, cause if they do so we're gonna fuck up the city and burn it to the ground. fucked up fucked up and more fucked up.
Click to expand...


In the US a Police officer is not sworn to protect any individual only the public.
I have no issue with that. I can very well protect myself and have done so more than once.


----------



## Intense

St.Blues said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's yet another reason that I don't understand why the lack of curfew.
> 
> He said those retailers can use a piece of 19th-century legislation called the Riot Damages Act to claim money back from the police for failing to protect them  but only if they apply within 14 days. Lowman said his association was trying to get the government to extend that period.
> 
> The Associated Press: Riots hit UK economy, from corner shops to tourism
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fucked up innit? we can sue the police and get money if they fail to protect us, but we won't give them the means or the authority to do so, cause if they do so we're gonna fuck up the city and burn it to the ground. fucked up fucked up and more fucked up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In the US a Police officer is not sworn to protect any individual only the public.
> I have no issue with that. I can very well protect myself and have done so more than once.
Click to expand...


Very True, and not very well understood by most.


----------



## St.Blues

Intense said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> fucked up innit? we can sue the police and get money if they fail to protect us, but we won't give them the means or the authority to do so, cause if they do so we're gonna fuck up the city and burn it to the ground. fucked up fucked up and more fucked up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the US a Police officer is not sworn to protect any individual only the public.
> I have no issue with that. I can very well protect myself and have done so more than once.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very True, and not very well understood by most.
Click to expand...


Glad you're on board.. Do you have a CCP? I've had mine over 20 years.. I don't have to interview anymore. I send in my renewal every 2 years, and its ready in less than a week.
Absolute respect from the AG's office and the state Marshall.


----------



## alexa

Blagger said:


> That's odd, Alexa. The notoriously far-left Guardian made no mention of the boy who had his backpack "pillaged" being a rioter when they reported on the outrage yesterday. In fact, they referred to him as an "injured boy". But I suppose that no longer fits their sympathetic agenda towards London's rioting, theiving 'disadvantaged', aka criminals. Far better to label him as a rioter, so as to distract opinion away from the fact that the scum they're defending were caught robbing a bleeding and disorientated boy on camera.



He was actually wrong though.  The guy has been identified on News 24 as a Malaysian student who was first thrown off his bike by the rioters and is now recovering from his broken jaw in hospital.  I imagine it was an honest mistake. All of Malaysia now knows and is questioning whether we are a safe and sane country to come to.

But to return to the article it was simply saying the different angles people have with their blame.

I am just hoping things settle down now particularly after the murder of the three men in Birmingham last night.


----------



## Intense

St.Blues said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the US a Police officer is not sworn to protect any individual only the public.
> I have no issue with that. I can very well protect myself and have done so more than once.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very True, and not very well understood by most.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Glad you're on board.. Do you have a CCP? I've had mine over 20 years.. I don't have to interview anymore. I send in my renewal every 2 years, and its ready in less than a week.
> Absolute respect from the AG's office and the state Marshall.
Click to expand...


I'm Lifetime NRA and support gun ownership for self defense. I do not currently own any fire arms, though I have owned Rifles and hand guns in the past. I've always loved target shooting. I currently live in NYC, which is a place that will charge you for using anything as a weapon, even in self defense, arbitrarily. Tough nut to crack there. I advocate using necessary force to meet and neutralize a threat, I also advocate Trial by Jury. 
I condone neither Riot or Lynch mob.


----------



## Intense

*We will use water cannons on them: At last Cameron orders police to come down hard on the looters (some aged as young as NINE)
*
*Officers will have 24 hours' notice to roll out powerful water cannons on yobs
    U-turn on 'softly softly' approach earlier this week as police finally vow to come down hard on offenders
    Ed Miliband heckled and called 'Dave' on Manchester visit
    Police name man shot in Croydon as 26-year-old Trevor Ellis
    Three men killed in Birmingham as hit-and-run prompts triple murder investigation
    Serious disorder in Manchester, but also unrest in Wolverhampton, West Bromwich and Salford
    Violence in Liverpool, Leicester and Nottingham where police station is fire-bombed by gang
    Police investigating reports that shots were fired at police officer in Birmingham
    800 police officers on patrol in Manchester city centre
    109 arrests in West Midlands, 110 in Manchester and Salford, 50 across Merseyside and 19 in Bristol
    805 people arrested in London since Saturday and 211 charged.
    Liam Gallagher's Manchester boutique smashed and ransacked
    eBay and Gumtree will help police to identify stolen goods being sold online*
'Whatever resources the police need they will get. What ever tactics they feel they need they will have legal backing to do so.'

Mr Cameron said that the police would be checking offenders 'picture by picture' and they would not let 'phoney human rights' stand in the way of bringing rioters to justice.

He said that something was 'seriously wrong' with society 'when you see children as young as 12 or 13 looting and laughing'.

Mr Cameron insisted the 'fightback' by police was succeeding today after a fourth night of rioting across the country. He said a 'more robust approach' by Scotland Yard last night had prevented a repeat of the worst trouble.

The PM said it was 'simply not acceptable' that violence was taking place and had spread to Manchester, Birmingham and Nottingham overnight.

'We will not put up with this in our country. We will not allow a culture of fear to exist on our streets.

'There are pockets of our society that are not only broken, but frankly sick...It is a complete lack of responsibility in parts of our society, people allowed to feel that the world owes them something.'

Later, the Prime Minister also described the apparent hit-and-run killing of three men in Birmingham who were trying to protect shops from looters as a 'truly dreadful incident' and offered his condolences to their families.

Labour leader Ed Miliband was quickly mobbed by members of the public and a large group surrounded and followed him as he made his way slowly around Market Street in Manchester.

One man, mistaking the Labour leader for his older brother, shouted: 'All platitudes, Dave, as usual. You are all the same.'

Standing outside the burnt-out Miss Selfridge store, Mr Miliband told members of the public the first thing that had to be done was to 'restore public order'.

Read more: UK RIOTS 2011: Manchester and Midlands burn but London is 'under control' | Mail Online


----------



## alexa

alexa said:


> All of Malaysia now knows and is questioning whether we are a safe and sane country to come to.





> BBC News also said it had decided to refer to the unrest as ''England riots'', rather than ''UK riots''.
> 
> It said the change was ''in recognition of the sensitivities involved for people in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland'', and was in the interest of geographical precision and clarity.




London riots: BBC apologises for accusing Darcus Howe - Telegraph


At last.  We don't want our reputation ruined


----------



## Wicked Jester

Sky Dancer said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're definitely unstoppable now.  You're out of control.  I hope you stop before you end up killing someone.
> 
> Anger management.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you drink too much gin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I don't.  Buddhists avoid the use of intoxicants.
> 
> If you're really nosey about what Marie said and did go to her posts, look to her threads from the beginning of when she started to post her in March.
> 
> You will find a thread about Buddhism.  She started it for no other reason than to bash Buddhism and convert me to Christianity.
> 
> I objected, and I've taken nothing but shit from her christian friends ever since.
Click to expand...

Do all Bhuddist's incessently whine like you, or are you out of the norm?

Maybe ya' need to go do a few OOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHMMMMMMMSSSSSS, and rub that fat lil' bastards belly to find some inner peace, or whatever it is you weird lil' cultists partake in.


----------



## Ravi

I see the three killed by the hit and run driver were Muslims.


----------



## Swagger

Ravi said:


> I see the three killed by the hit and run driver were Muslims.



Yes, they were killed while protecting their property. But what's their religion got to do with anything?


----------



## alexa

Ravi said:


> I see the three killed by the hit and run driver were Muslims.



That seems so but I don't think it had anything to do with them being Muslims - just one maniac to mad.

For some reason this has brought up concern that this could lead to race violence

3 Asians killed, fear of race violence in UK - Hindustan Times

The father of one of the dead has been quietly expressing his grief and love of his son and asking that people stop before any one else loses their lives.

England riots: pressure to scrap police cuts as Birmingham mourns its dead | UK news | The Guardian

The streets are quiet tonight.


----------



## Tank

Ravi said:


> I see the three killed by the hit and run driver were Muslims.


Now you want three whites to die.


----------



## WillowTree

Sky Dancer said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're definitely unstoppable now.  You're out of control.  I hope you stop before you end up killing someone.
> 
> Anger management.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you drink too much gin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I don't.  Buddhists avoid the use of intoxicants.
> 
> If you're really nosey about what Marie said and did go to her posts, look to her threads from the beginning of when she started to post her in March.
> 
> You will find a thread about Buddhism.  She started it for no other reason than to bash Buddhism and convert me to Christianity.
> 
> I objected, and I've taken nothing but shit from her christian friends ever since.
Click to expand...


I asked for a link, I expect the courtesy of a link, otherwise have some more gin


----------



## Sky Dancer

WillowTree said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> you drink too much gin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I don't.  Buddhists avoid the use of intoxicants.
> 
> If you're really nosey about what Marie said and did go to her posts, look to her threads from the beginning of when she started to post her in March.
> 
> You will find a thread about Buddhism.  She started it for no other reason than to bash Buddhism and convert me to Christianity.
> 
> I objected, and I've taken nothing but shit from her christian friends ever since.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I asked for a link, I expect the courtesy of a link, otherwise have some more gin
Click to expand...


I don't care what you asked for or what you expect.  If you want to know so bad, look it up yourself.


----------



## Intense

Scotland Yard has told the public that suspected rioters and looters can be hit with weapons if they are honestly thought to pose a danger.

In a document sent to businesses in the capital on Wednesday, police gave explicit guidance on what constitutes "reasonable force", saying people do not have to wait to be attacked, if they are in their own home or business.

With police numbers stretched to the limit, the Metropolitan police said if someone "honestly and instinctively" believed they, their business or another person was in danger, they could use force.

The guidance adds that a weapon can be used and says: "The more extreme the circumstances and the fear felt, the more force you can lawfully use in self-defence."

The Met guidance says use of a weapon could also be lawful and constitute reasonable force, even if the person attacked proves to be innocent.

It is understood the guidance was issued after business owners asked for advice about how much force they could use to defend themselves and their property.

The police guidance is contained in a document called "MPS disorder update for business", which was sent out on Wednesday afternoon.

In a passage on reasonable force, the Met says: "Anyone can use reasonable force to protect themselves or others, or to carry out an arrest or to prevent crime.

"You are not expected to make fine judgments over the level of force you use in the heat of the moment. So long as you only do what you honestly and instinctively believe is necessary in the heat of the moment that would be the strongest evidence of you acting lawfully and in self-defence.

"This is still the case if you use something to hand as a weapon.

Police tell public rioters can be hit with weapons if they pose a danger | UK news | guardian.co.uk


----------



## Wicked Jester

Sky Dancer said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I don't.  Buddhists avoid the use of intoxicants.
> 
> If you're really nosey about what Marie said and did go to her posts, look to her threads from the beginning of when she started to post her in March.
> 
> You will find a thread about Buddhism.  She started it for no other reason than to bash Buddhism and convert me to Christianity.
> 
> I objected, and I've taken nothing but shit from her christian friends ever since.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I asked for a link, I expect the courtesy of a link, otherwise have some more gin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't care what you asked for or what you expect.  If you want to know so bad, look it up yourself.
Click to expand...

Noooooooo, it's up to you to provide the link. Unless can provide said link, one can only surmise you're full o' shit.

Now, OooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmMMMMM*MMMMMMMM!*


----------



## yidnar

High_Gravity said:


> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> So all the problems in England is because of asians and Blacks?
> 
> 
> 
> nah asians are ok
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fuck you bitch.
Click to expand...

YOU SIR HAVE A FILTHY MUZZLE!!!


----------



## Mad Scientist

Sky Dancer said:


> You will find a thread about Buddhism.  She started it for no other reason than to bash Buddhism and convert me to Christianity. I objected, and I've taken nothing but *shit* from her christian friends ever since.


What part of Buddhism allows profanity?


----------



## Intense

By Andrew Hough, Tim Ross and Richard Alleyne

12:15AM BST 11 Aug 2011

Riot police were hit with &#8220;missiles&#8221; including bottles as more than 1,000 officers battled with dozens of middle-aged men on the streets Eltham, south-east London.

Witnesses reported that many of the 200 men were chanting in support of the English Defence League, the controversial Right-wing group.

The group had promised to defy police orders and mobilise their own forces to protect their families and businesses from mobs of looters.

Last night hundreds of police from eight separate forces tried to restore calm from the mainly white, middle aged men.

Earlier they had claimed they were &#8220;protecting&#8221; local shops and businesses for a second consecutive night. 

London riots: vigilantes hurl bottles at police in Eltham - Telegraph


----------



## chesswarsnow

Sorry bout that,


1. Its about time that *Ol Whitey* in England are awake now!
2. But they should be ready to focus on the problems, not the police.



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


----------



## Tank

Intense said:


> Witnesses reported that many of the 200 men were chanting in support of the English Defence League, the controversial Right-wing group.
> 
> The group had promised to defy police orders and mobilise their own forces to protect their families and businesses from mobs of looters.
> 
> Last night hundreds of police from eight separate forces tried to restore calm from the mainly white, middle aged men.


Now all the Libs will call this a "race riot"


----------



## freedombecki

Intense said:


> By Andrew Hough, Tim Ross and Richard Alleyne
> 
> 12:15AM BST 11 Aug 2011
> 
> Riot police were hit with missiles including bottles as more than 1,000 officers battled with dozens of middle-aged men on the streets Eltham, south-east London.
> 
> Witnesses reported that many of the 200 men were chanting in support of the English Defence League, the controversial Right-wing group.
> 
> The group had promised to defy police orders and mobilise their own forces to protect their families and businesses from mobs of looters.
> 
> Last night hundreds of police from eight separate forces tried to restore calm from the mainly white, middle aged men.
> 
> Earlier they had claimed they were protecting local shops and businesses for a second consecutive night.
> 
> London riots: vigilantes hurl bottles at police in Eltham - Telegraph


That's terrible. Sounds like they need to deputize some military police to assist them in this situation. I hate to see London in flames. It's just not right. Before it was the Nazis bombing them. Now it's from the people they welcomed into their country who were seeking assylum of one kind or another.

I'm hoping for a miracle for our dear, torn Brits.


----------



## westwall

Intense said:


> Scotland Yard has told the public that suspected rioters and looters can be hit with weapons if they are honestly thought to pose a danger.
> 
> In a document sent to businesses in the capital on Wednesday, police gave explicit guidance on what constitutes "reasonable force", saying people do not have to wait to be attacked, if they are in their own home or business.
> 
> With police numbers stretched to the limit, the Metropolitan police said if someone "honestly and instinctively" believed they, their business or another person was in danger, they could use force.
> 
> The guidance adds that a weapon can be used and says: "The more extreme the circumstances and the fear felt, the more force you can lawfully use in self-defence."
> 
> The Met guidance says use of a weapon could also be lawful and constitute reasonable force, even if the person attacked proves to be innocent.
> 
> It is understood the guidance was issued after business owners asked for advice about how much force they could use to defend themselves and their property.
> 
> The police guidance is contained in a document called "MPS disorder update for business", which was sent out on Wednesday afternoon.
> 
> In a passage on reasonable force, the Met says: "Anyone can use reasonable force to protect themselves or others, or to carry out an arrest or to prevent crime.
> 
> "You are not expected to make fine judgments over the level of force you use in the heat of the moment. So long as you only do what you honestly and instinctively believe is necessary in the heat of the moment that would be the strongest evidence of you acting lawfully and in self-defence.
> 
> "This is still the case if you use something to hand as a weapon.
> 
> Police tell public rioters can be hit with weapons if they pose a danger | UK news | guardian.co.uk







You KNOW things are getting bad when the authorities expressly say you can use a weapon to defend yourself.  In the UK that's simply extraordinary.


----------



## westwall

yidnar said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> nah asians are ok
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck you bitch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> YOU SIR HAVE A FILTHY MUZZLE!!!
Click to expand...








Better a filthy mouth then a worthless mind.  When are you going to develop your mind caveman?


----------



## alexa

Intense said:


> By Andrew Hough, Tim Ross and Richard Alleyne
> 
> 12:15AM BST 11 Aug 2011
> 
> Riot police were hit with &#8220;missiles&#8221; including bottles as more than 1,000 officers battled with dozens of middle-aged men on the streets Eltham, south-east London.
> *
> Witnesses reported that many of the 200 men were chanting in support of the English Defence League, the controversial Right-wing group.*
> 
> The group had promised to defy police orders and mobilise their own forces to protect their families and businesses from mobs of looters.
> 
> Last night hundreds of police from eight separate forces tried to restore calm from the mainly white, middle aged men.
> 
> Earlier they had claimed they were &#8220;protecting&#8221; local shops and businesses for a second consecutive night.
> 
> London riots: vigilantes hurl bottles at police in Eltham - Telegraph



The EDL who in case people do not know are the people who Breivak was in close contact with, are the people who came on our tv after the terrorism in Norway saying they would not be surprised if we got the same within the next 5 years and demanded a debate among themselves as to whether they should kill our Prime Minister and The Archbishop of Cantebury



> A senior member of the English Defence League, who founded a far-right website carrying articles by bloggers closely monitored by the Norwegian gunman Anders Behring Breivik, published an online essay discussing the execution and torture of the UK's political and religious leaders.



EDL leader demanded debate on killing David Cameron and archbishop | Patrick Henry Press News


They were already working to step things up and broaden the turmoil



> Several miles to the south, in Eltham, hundreds of local people, almost exclusively white, took to the streets, amid rumours that the English Defence League was mobilising in the area in an attempt to exploit community tensions.
> 
> -snip -
> 
> Guardian reporters witnessed one incident in Enfield in which a group of visibly drunk older men chased local youths shouting that they wanted to get the "blacks" and "pakis", but it was an isolated and relatively minor skirmish.
> 
> Up to 300 people, mostly white men, were kettled by police at around 11pm on Tuesday in Eltham, after turning out for what some said was a defence of "a white working-class area". "No smashing up, no looting, just protecting the fucking proper people," said one man in his 40s. But he said: "Please get this &#8211; this is not a race thing at all, it really ain't."
> 
> Clive Efford, the local Labour MP, who was on the streets on Tuesday evening, said EDL activists, who he said were outsiders, were "very unwelcome" in the area.



UK riots: 'Those who seek to racialise this problem are taking us backwards' | UK news | The Guardian

Possibly being the people who actually sent out at least a psychological message to spread this rioting and looting over the rest of the UK.  Should be remembered that they are based in thug land.

I have thought there are two different dimensions to this.  The beginning which seems to have a basic grievance in London and then the spread over England of thugs on the street. Not that the thugs are not there but it is not impossible that the BNP and the EDL have been stirring them up. The thought has been in my mind for a couple of days.  Now seeing that they have been involved has strengthened it.

The BNP are wanting to do a march at the weekend



> Far-right groups have sought to exploit the tensions. The BNP says it will hold its "biggest ever day of action" this weekend and has published a leaflet titled: Looter beware: British defenders protect this area. The EDL claims its supporters are organising across the country and will provide "a strong physical presence, and discourage troublemakers from gathering in our town and city centres".
> 
> But Nick Lowles, from anti-racist organisation Hope Not Hate, described it as an attempt to divide communities: "They are trying to use what has happened in London and elsewhere to drum up support for their divisive agenda but the reality is that most communities have come together following these disturbances."



UK riots: 'Those who seek to racialise this problem are taking us backwards' | UK news | The Guardian

It is not impossible that these people have been stirring it up on the ground and would go some way to explaining why there have been no riots and looting in Scotland where they have a very low presence.

No one should see this as a good thing.  These people want to destroy democracy, most of them seem to want to implement a Christian State, with them of course ruling it and according to Breivik the want to murder people like me - and you Ravi.

Obviously one of the things which we will be being looked into is the extent to which they have been spreading this.

P.S if they were trying to get people on the streets saying they were doing it because of Muslims and immigration, which I have heard some people trying to suggest on other sites, then they obviously blew it because the one man interviewed in Manchester who mentioned immigration said he *had* to do it because of the immigration of all those *Poles* taking his job!!  -( it was really a new pair of boots.)


----------



## Colin

westwall said:


> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck you bitch.
> 
> 
> 
> YOU SIR HAVE A FILTHY MUZZLE!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Better a filthy mouth then a worthless mind.  When are you going to develop your mind caveman?
Click to expand...


He doesn't have a mind! Haven't you seen the photo he posted of himself? He's one step down from a knuckle dragging moron who spent his formative years looking for a brain cell. He, was of course, unsuccessful as when he came across a dog turd he thought it was a brain and placed it within the vacant space in his cranium. Hence the phrase, shit for brains.


----------



## English Dave

It was a quiet night in Manchester, the nearest place to me suffering these riots. It rained
heavily, which was maybe something to do with it. The police of course would have been
out all night watching and waiting. If this is over for now I suppose it is a relief. The talking
heads are on TV with their explanation for events. The trouble with many of our MPs is
that many of them have large amounts of minorities in their areas, many of whom do vote.
So they have to be very careful what they say, or they will lose their very well paid jobs.  I
hope the powers that be realise we can't go on like this, waiting for the next outbreak of
violence. It'll take much cleverer people than me to come up with solutions. All I can do, is
wait for things to pick up so I can sell my house, and move away from this area of England
for good. We will go to live by the coast where our daughter is, and leave this for younger
and hopefully very smart people to deal with.


----------



## sparky

> =westwall;3986141]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You KNOW things are getting bad when the authorities expressly say you can use a weapon to defend yourself.  In the UK that's simply extraordinary.



it most certainly is WW


hopefully, we can watch and learn from this evoloution they are enduring


----------



## annesmith

that's tragic!


----------



## Ravi

Intense said:


> By Andrew Hough, Tim Ross and Richard Alleyne
> 
> 12:15AM BST 11 Aug 2011
> 
> Riot police were hit with missiles including bottles as more than 1,000 officers battled with dozens of middle-aged men on the streets Eltham, south-east London.
> 
> Witnesses reported that many of the 200 men were chanting in support of the English Defence League, the controversial Right-wing group.
> 
> The group had promised to defy police orders and mobilise their own forces to protect their families and businesses from mobs of looters.
> 
> Last night hundreds of police from eight separate forces tried to restore calm from the mainly white, middle aged men.
> 
> Earlier they had claimed they were protecting local shops and businesses for a second consecutive night.
> 
> London riots: vigilantes hurl bottles at police in Eltham - Telegraph



So, rumors that liberals are behind this turn out to be wrong.


----------



## Colin

Ravi said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> By Andrew Hough, Tim Ross and Richard Alleyne
> 
> 12:15AM BST 11 Aug 2011
> 
> Riot police were hit with missiles including bottles as more than 1,000 officers battled with dozens of middle-aged men on the streets Eltham, south-east London.
> 
> Witnesses reported that many of the 200 men were chanting in support of the English Defence League, the controversial Right-wing group.
> 
> The group had promised to defy police orders and mobilise their own forces to protect their families and businesses from mobs of looters.
> 
> Last night hundreds of police from eight separate forces tried to restore calm from the mainly white, middle aged men.
> 
> Earlier they had claimed they were protecting local shops and businesses for a second consecutive night.
> 
> London riots: vigilantes hurl bottles at police in Eltham - Telegraph
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, rumors that liberals are behind this turn out to be wrong.
Click to expand...


You really are getting quite tiresome with your ludicrous US style partisan hackery! Who is saying liberals are behind it? Must be the usual partisan hacks of USMB I guess! Certainly not those of us who have to live and breath the situation.


----------



## alexa

One of our police has just been on the tv talking about people protesting that the police had not been more tough.

He said that not forgetting the tragedy which happened in Birmingham, it is totally amazing that after the past few days our hospitals are not full of people. He said he doubted if that would be the situation anywhere else in the world.

This goes along with what the Scottish policeman said on Newsnight, that the reason that police had stood by at the beginning was that to do otherwise would almost certainly have resulted in more violence and deaths.

I know a lot of people here have been calling for the rioters to be killed but I believe we can get over this a lot sooner not having our hospitals and morgues full.


----------



## Ravi

alexa said:


> One of our police has just been on the tv talking about people protesting that the police had not been more tough.
> 
> He said that not forgetting the tragedy which happened in Birmingham, it is totally amazing that after the past few days our hospitals are not full of people. He said he doubted if that would be the situation anywhere else in the world.
> 
> This goes along with what the Scottish policeman said on Newsnight, that the reason that police had stood by at the beginning was that to do otherwise would almost certainly have resulted in more violence and deaths.
> 
> I know a lot of people here have been calling for the rioters to be killed but I believe we can get over this a lot sooner not having our hospitals and morgues full.


I can agree with this as many innocents might have been killed mistakenly.

I still will never get the lack of curfew.


----------



## chesswarsnow

Sorry bout that,


1. I would of called in the military, seeing the cops were over whelmed.
2. And it would of been within two hours of the kick off!
3. Also I would of called for a curfew at the third hour.
4. And shot anyone walking the streets who was rioting after the fourth hour.



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


----------



## alexa

Ravi said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of our police has just been on the tv talking about people protesting that the police had not been more tough.
> 
> He said that not forgetting the tragedy which happened in Birmingham, it is totally amazing that after the past few days our hospitals are not full of people. He said he doubted if that would be the situation anywhere else in the world.
> 
> This goes along with what the Scottish policeman said on Newsnight, that the reason that police had stood by at the beginning was that to do otherwise would almost certainly have resulted in more violence and deaths.
> 
> I know a lot of people here have been calling for the rioters to be killed but I believe we can get over this a lot sooner not having our hospitals and morgues full.
> 
> 
> 
> I can agree with this as many innocents might have been killed mistakenly.
Click to expand...


For me it is all lives.  It is much better seeing them face the law that watching on our tv the hospitals full and all the funerals - and yes, there would have been the innocent as well.



Ravi said:


> I still will never get the lack of curfew.



Well I know CG has said the economy but these have also been such a strange phenomenon that I am not sure how that would be done given that we had no idea where people would decide to go on the rampage and given that 99% was not due to political unrest but rather opportunistic criminality.  By that I mean, I can see if tempers are raised a curfew may help but here they may just have planned more sophisticated mischief for the end of the curfew.

I think they have it sussed now.  Now if something happened like race riots, then a curfew might be the right idea so that people could have some quiet time and resolution of the difficulties found.


----------



## alexa

Dianne Abbot though has just been on and said that in her area a shopping mall was being looted for 2 hours with no police around at all and she believes that just gave the green light to everyone that they could go on the loot and get away with it.

Obviously London had a new situation that they had never had before and that situation was dealt with by increasing London's police to 16,000.  Still no need to kill, though.


----------



## California Girl

alexa said:


> Dianne Abbot though has just been on and said that in her area a shopping mall was being looted for 2 hours with no police around at all and she believes that just gave the green light to everyone that they could go on the loot and get away with it.
> 
> Obviously London had a new situation that they had never had before and that situation was dealt with by increasing London's police to 16,000.  Still no need to kill, though.



Seems that quite a few of those who 'got away with it' have since discovered they did not actually 'get away' with jack shit. 1500 arrests. Works for me.


----------



## Rat in the Hat

California Girl said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dianne Abbot though has just been on and said that in her area a shopping mall was being looted for 2 hours with no police around at all and she believes that just gave the green light to everyone that they could go on the loot and get away with it.
> 
> Obviously London had a new situation that they had never had before and that situation was dealt with by increasing London's police to 16,000.  Still no need to kill, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems that quite a few of those who 'got away with it' have since discovered they did not actually 'get away' with jack shit. 1500 arrests. Works for me.
Click to expand...


They should sentence them all to 10 years of hard labor, rebuilding what they destroyed, but offer to reduce it to 9 years if they drop a dime on a few of their fellow thugs.


----------



## Colin

Rat in the Hat said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dianne Abbot though has just been on and said that in her area a shopping mall was being looted for 2 hours with no police around at all and she believes that just gave the green light to everyone that they could go on the loot and get away with it.
> 
> Obviously London had a new situation that they had never had before and that situation was dealt with by increasing London's police to 16,000.  Still no need to kill, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems that quite a few of those who 'got away with it' have since discovered they did not actually 'get away' with jack shit. 1500 arrests. Works for me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They should sentence them all to 10 years of hard labor, rebuilding what they destroyed, but offer to reduce it to 9 years if they drop a dime on a few of their fellow thugs.
Click to expand...


That'll be the day! I doubt that much, if any, of the sentencing will match the crime. Four months, out in two for most I bet. I hope I'm wrong, but that has been the norm in the past.


----------



## alexa

Colin said:


> Rat in the Hat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seems that quite a few of those who 'got away with it' have since discovered they did not actually 'get away' with jack shit. 1500 arrests. Works for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They should sentence them all to 10 years of hard labor, rebuilding what they destroyed, but offer to reduce it to 9 years if they drop a dime on a few of their fellow thugs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That'll be the day! I doubt that much, if any, of the sentencing will match the crime. Four months, out in two for most I bet. I hope I'm wrong, but that has been the norm in the past.
Click to expand...


You haven't heard.  Several councils are intending on dehousing them.  Nottingham even suggested a way needed to be found to evict owner occupiers 

The e-poll site has collected 100,000 signatures that people convicted should have their benefits removed which means the government must debate it.......so looks like lots of council tenants and housing association tenants may be penniless out on the street.  Wonder what this would do for our crime figures?


----------



## sparky

> Wonder what this would do for our crime figures?



I'll go out on a limb and guess something less than the usual peace and prosperity


----------



## Tank

English Dave said:


> It was a quiet night in Manchester, the nearest place to me suffering these riots. It rained
> heavily, which was maybe something to do with it. The police of course would have been
> out all night watching and waiting. If this is over for now I suppose it is a relief. The talking
> heads are on TV with their explanation for events. The trouble with many of our MPs is
> that many of them have large amounts of minorities in their areas, many of whom do vote.
> So they have to be very careful what they say, or they will lose their very well paid jobs.  I
> hope the powers that be realise we can't go on like this, waiting for the next outbreak of
> violence. It'll take much cleverer people than me to come up with solutions. All I can do, is
> wait for things to pick up so I can sell my house, and move away from this area of England
> for good. We will go to live by the coast where our daughter is, and leave this for younger
> and hopefully very smart people to deal with.


Ya, here in America it's called white flight, I'm sure there are many others just like you planning to leave the cities. I expect London will soon be like alot of Americas major cities that whites abandoned.

Instead of white flight, it should be white fight.


----------



## Intense

alexa said:


> One of our police has just been on the tv talking about people protesting that the police had not been more tough.
> 
> He said that not forgetting the tragedy which happened in Birmingham, it is totally amazing that after the past few days our hospitals are not full of people. He said he doubted if that would be the situation anywhere else in the world.
> 
> This goes along with what the Scottish policeman said on Newsnight, that the reason that police had stood by at the beginning was that to do otherwise would almost certainly have resulted in more violence and deaths.
> 
> I know a lot of people here have been calling for the rioters to be killed but I believe we can get over this a lot sooner not having our hospitals and morgues full.



Those are not the only alternatives. I don't advocate Rioting or unnecessary killing. The Looting and Rioting should have been confronted before the momentum kicked in. Same holds for Riots in the USA or Anywhere else. You have many means of nonlethal force at your disposal. That includes Curfew, water cannon. You should consider training Military for crowd control too. Even for evacuation in National Emergency Disaster Relief. Equipping them with Riot gear to is helpful. Preparedness and Training beat out Coulda-Woulda-Shoulda any day. There is truly no sound reason for doing nothing. People end up jumping out of burning buildings as a result of that kind of thinking.


----------



## Intense

alexa said:


> Dianne Abbot though has just been on and said that in her area a shopping mall was being looted for 2 hours with no police around at all and she believes that just gave the green light to everyone that they could go on the loot and get away with it.
> 
> Obviously London had a new situation that they had never had before and that situation was dealt with by increasing London's police to 16,000.  Still no need to kill, though.



Exactly.


----------



## alexa

Tank said:


> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was a quiet night in Manchester, the nearest place to me suffering these riots. It rained
> heavily, which was maybe something to do with it. The police of course would have been
> out all night watching and waiting. If this is over for now I suppose it is a relief. The talking
> heads are on TV with their explanation for events. The trouble with many of our MPs is
> that many of them have large amounts of minorities in their areas, many of whom do vote.
> So they have to be very careful what they say, or they will lose their very well paid jobs.  I
> hope the powers that be realise we can't go on like this, waiting for the next outbreak of
> violence. It'll take much cleverer people than me to come up with solutions. All I can do, is
> wait for things to pick up so I can sell my house, and move away from this area of England
> for good. We will go to live by the coast where our daughter is, and leave this for younger
> and hopefully very smart people to deal with.
> 
> 
> 
> Ya, here in America it's called white flight, I'm sure there are many others just like you planning to leave the cities. I expect London will soon be like alot of Americas major cities that whites abandoned.
> 
> Instead of white flight, it should be white fight.
Click to expand...


Manchester rioters 


Machester riots 2011: How looters as young as 9 pillaged city centre | Mail Online


----------



## Ravi

I like that your PM wants to treat it as a criminal problem. That almost sounds liberal of him....much the same way we should treat terrorists as a criminal problem and not a political problem.

But I do think they should rethink cutting so many things when so many are out of work. It will just feed into the criminal element.


----------



## L.K.Eder

alexa said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was a quiet night in Manchester, the nearest place to me suffering these riots. It rained
> heavily, which was maybe something to do with it. The police of course would have been
> out all night watching and waiting. If this is over for now I suppose it is a relief. The talking
> heads are on TV with their explanation for events. The trouble with many of our MPs is
> that many of them have large amounts of minorities in their areas, many of whom do vote.
> So they have to be very careful what they say, or they will lose their very well paid jobs.  I
> hope the powers that be realise we can't go on like this, waiting for the next outbreak of
> violence. It'll take much cleverer people than me to come up with solutions. All I can do, is
> wait for things to pick up so I can sell my house, and move away from this area of England
> for good. We will go to live by the coast where our daughter is, and leave this for younger
> and hopefully very smart people to deal with.
> 
> 
> 
> Ya, here in America it's called white flight, I'm sure there are many others just like you planning to leave the cities. I expect London will soon be like alot of Americas major cities that whites abandoned.
> 
> Instead of white flight, it should be white fight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manchester rioters
> 
> 
> Machester riots 2011: How looters as young as 9 pillaged city centre | Mail Online
Click to expand...


probably manchester irish. deport those animals.


----------



## alexa

Ravi said:


> I like that your PM wants to treat it as a criminal problem. That almost sounds liberal of him....much the same way we should treat terrorists as a criminal problem and not a political problem.
> 
> But I do think they should rethink cutting so many things when so many are out of work. It will just feed into the criminal element.



Well, we have just had Question Time and the panel admitted that the sort of things people think in the heat of the moment were not really a good idea and although people may want this now, it really was too simplistic.

A couple of things on QT caught my attention.  What sort of an example have these kids been given?  They are brought up in a society which values what you can buy and the people who are 'running' that society, politicians, bankers and police have all themselves recently been  found lacking on the moral front.

The second was an idea a member of the audience had.  Rather than sending them to prison, they could get them repairing the communities they had destroyed.  In that way they could learn some skills which might help them to then be able to earn a living.

A lot of the program sounded like a parenting class because so many of these 'rioters' were kids and it seemed to be generally accepted that they needed both boundaries and opportunities.


----------



## Intense

Community Service sounds good for those without blood on their hands, a lot of it.. Seems like the priority is restoring the peace though. This is a quality of Life issue first and foremost. It concerns everyone involved and there is no condoning this behavior.


----------



## alexa

Intense said:


> Community Service sounds good for those without blood on their hands, a lot of it.. Seems like the priority is restoring the peace though. This is a quality of Life issue first and foremost. It concerns everyone involved and there is* no condoning this behavior.*



No one has


----------



## Intense

alexa said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> Community Service sounds good for those without blood on their hands, a lot of it.. Seems like the priority is restoring the peace though. This is a quality of Life issue first and foremost. It concerns everyone involved and there is* no condoning this behavior.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one has
Click to expand...


Generally, maybe, but not totally. When it is condoned, it is enabled further, just like not responding to looting encourages more looting. Establishing Law and Order, establishing Justice, is not always an easy thing to do, though throughout the Centuries we try. We have to work within our means, even ensuring that the solution does not compound the problem. You do need to consider training your Military to lend a hand  in National Emergencies, in a way that works with and compliments the police force. We do it here through the National Guard, which our Governors control. It does free up resources. Tear Gas is great at dispersing ans steering crowds too, when used properly. There is always intent, capability, competence, and effectiveness that need to be weighed in when examining the short comings, when this is over. Measure twice and cut once.


----------



## alexa

Intense said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> Community Service sounds good for those without blood on their hands, a lot of it.. Seems like the priority is restoring the peace though. This is a quality of Life issue first and foremost. It concerns everyone involved and there is* no condoning this behavior.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one has
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Generally, maybe, but not totally. When it is condoned, it is enabled further, just like not responding to looting encourages more looting. Establishing Law and Order, establishing Justice, is not always an easy thing to do, though throughout the Centuries we try. We have to work within our means, even ensuring that the solution does not compound the problem. You do need to consider training your Military to lend a hand  in National Emergencies, in a way that works with and compliments the police force. We do it here through the National Guard, which our Governors control. It does free up resources. Tear Gas is great at dispersing ans steering crowds too, when used properly. There is always intent, capability, competence, and effectiveness that need to be weighed in when examining the short comings, when this is over. Measure twice and cut once.
Click to expand...


That is your way. I hope we start to find our way again.  How about a different look



> They are not part of the society the people reading this belong to. Rioting last night gave them a sense of power and control, over the police, and over their neighbours. It's a huge oversimplification to say these are simply poor areas. Patterns of housing - particularly the rental market - in London are way more complex than that and Hackney, Clapham, Brixton etc have been increasingly gentrified over the last thirty years. The communities are much more mixed than many commentators will acknowledge. What these riots - which aren't demonstrations, but parties got out of hand, with fires and prizes - is the degree of alienation from their own communities, their inability to acknowledge that they are part of any community. They also don't see themselves as angry or even oppressed, because they cannot look beyond the circumstances they are in and the peer pressures around them. And it is about bad parenting, to the extent that when the 13 to 20% become parents they have no aspirations or responsibilities for their children to inherit. That won't change if you treat merely them as victims, and enhance their sense of entitlement to trainers and TVs, nor if you treat them merely as criminals and process them through a judicial system that encourages recidivism.
> 
> I commented to two of my former pupils last night, who were posting on FB about feeling scared, that they were the reason I felt less scared than most of my friends. I have been watching their responses, particularly the kids who live in the areas affected. The teenagers and younger kids I know, of all ethnicities, have cheered me enormously over the last few days, with the maturity and compassion and concern in their responses and comments. They put a lot of my reactionary acquaintances to shame. They are what I think of when I think of 'London youth'. The future is, I suspect, pretty safe in their hands. And they are only just a percentage point or two, most of them, above the dispossesed 13 to 20%. What lifts them above that is the ability to read and talk and think and the self knowledge and aspiration that comes with those abilities.
> 
> If you think you are an idealist, get off twitter, put down your placard, stop gazing at your navel to examine your privilege. Put your money and time where your mouth is. Go and volunteer in a primary school and sit with those who are struggling to read, go and become a school governor, go and do a bit of training to become an adult advocate so that when one of these kids goes through the judicial system and their parents can't or won't participate in the process, you can be called on to speak to and for them. If you can't do any of those things, work an extra shift or do some baby-sitting to free up a colleague or friend who can. Unlike gesture politics, these acts will make a difference. I've seen the difference they can make; I've seen the tragically slight difference between the 20th and 21st percentile. It's the difference between me and my brothers, between prison and college. It's the difference between the young offender I taught in Cardiff and his cellmates. His daughter, proudly ruffled in a dozen layers of pink lace, was christened with his probationer officer's and my first names, because as he said, without us, he'd be 'dead, not a dad'. I was touched by that comment, but I also thought the tragedy was that most boys who started out like him were both not dead and serial dads. His daughter is very lucky, she'll be brought up with different values to those he grew up with. Aspiration, like alienation is very easy to spread. You just have to get off both your arse and your moral highground to spread it.



Adult Content Notice


----------



## yidnar

westwall said:


> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck you bitch.
> 
> 
> 
> YOU SIR HAVE A FILTHY MUZZLE!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Better a filthy mouth then a worthless mind.  When are you going to develop your mind caveman?
Click to expand...

you do not have a mouth you have a muzzle like all apes.and my mind is human unlike your tiny little homo erectus brain......these three ugly bastards could walk side by side through a black community without drawing attention!!!


----------



## freedombecki

English Dave said:


> It was a quiet night in Manchester, the nearest place to me suffering these riots. It rained
> heavily, which was maybe something to do with it. The police of course would have been
> out all night watching and waiting. If this is over for now I suppose it is a relief. The talking
> heads are on TV with their explanation for events. The trouble with many of our MPs is
> that many of them have large amounts of minorities in their areas, many of whom do vote.
> So they have to be very careful what they say, or they will lose their very well paid jobs.  I
> hope the powers that be realise we can't go on like this, waiting for the next outbreak of
> violence. It'll take much cleverer people than me to come up with solutions. All I can do, is
> wait for things to pick up so I can sell my house, and move away from this area of England
> for good. We will go to live by the coast where our daughter is, and leave this for younger
> and hopefully very smart people to deal with.


Glad the rain quelled the mischief. Send it to London, and when they're done with it, would you so kindly send some of it to Texas? My lake is down by at least two meters, and if it gets much hotter here, our lake fish will boil. Then the great white egrets will have nothing to eat. I see more and more little animals here as the neighbors ponds dry up, one by one. A veterinarian built the property years ago, and was wise enough to dig it deep and far enough away from the house as to not engage trouble in the face of a hurricane's might. Even so, I hope the fish are okay this dry, dry year.

Rain is good for the misery of members of the animal kingdom and men.


----------



## yidnar

Colin said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> By Andrew Hough, Tim Ross and Richard Alleyne
> 
> 12:15AM BST 11 Aug 2011
> 
> Riot police were hit with &#8220;missiles&#8221; including bottles as more than 1,000 officers battled with dozens of middle-aged men on the streets Eltham, south-east London.
> 
> Witnesses reported that many of the 200 men were chanting in support of the English Defence League, the controversial Right-wing group.
> 
> The group had promised to defy police orders and mobilise their own forces to protect their families and businesses from mobs of looters.
> 
> Last night hundreds of police from eight separate forces tried to restore calm from the mainly white, middle aged men.
> 
> Earlier they had claimed they were &#8220;protecting&#8221; local shops and businesses for a second consecutive night.
> 
> London riots: vigilantes hurl bottles at police in Eltham - Telegraph
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, rumors that liberals are behind this turn out to be wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You really are getting quite tiresome with your ludicrous US style partisan hackery! Who is saying liberals are behind it? Must be the usual partisan hacks of USMB I guess! Certainly not those of us who have to live and breath the situation.
Click to expand...

the humans protecting their property from roving bands of pack animals are not the rioters!!


----------



## yidnar

Colin said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> YOU SIR HAVE A FILTHY MUZZLE!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Better a filthy mouth then a worthless mind.  When are you going to develop your mind caveman?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He doesn't have a mind! Haven't you seen the photo he posted of himself? He's one step down from a knuckle dragging moron who spent his formative years looking for a brain cell. He, was of course, unsuccessful as when he came across a dog turd he thought it was a brain and placed it within the vacant space in his cranium. Hence the phrase, shit for brains.
Click to expand...

the faggot [COLON]can take 10 min shit in 5 min]


----------



## Ravi

alexa said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like that your PM wants to treat it as a criminal problem. That almost sounds liberal of him....much the same way we should treat terrorists as a criminal problem and not a political problem.
> 
> But I do think they should rethink cutting so many things when so many are out of work. It will just feed into the criminal element.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, we have just had Question Time and the panel admitted that the sort of things people think in the heat of the moment were not really a good idea and although people may want this now, it really was too simplistic.
> 
> A couple of things on QT caught my attention.  What sort of an example have these kids been given?  They are brought up in a society which values what you can buy and the people who are 'running' that society, politicians, bankers and police have all themselves recently been  found lacking on the moral front.
> 
> The second was an idea a member of the audience had.  Rather than sending them to prison, they could get them repairing the communities they had destroyed.  In that way they could learn some skills which might help them to then be able to earn a living.
> 
> A lot of the program sounded like a parenting class because so many of these 'rioters' were kids and it seemed to be generally accepted that they needed both boundaries and opportunities.
Click to expand...


Huh....just strictly from my observations, prison seems to harden people in to a life of crime.

I don't really know what the answer is, but I think someone should come up with it, soon.


----------



## chesswarsnow

Sorry bout that,


1. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!
2. He must be the bitch!


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


----------



## Dr Grump

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pAC0YSmK0g&feature=feedu]Britain is a riot - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Tank

Ravi said:


> Huh....just strictly from my observations, prison seems to harden people in to a life of crime.
> 
> I don't really know what the answer is, but I think someone should come up with it, soon.


Blacks and Hispanics make up 75% of Americas prison population.

Just sayin


----------



## Intense

yidnar said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> YOU SIR HAVE A FILTHY MUZZLE!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Better a filthy mouth then a worthless mind.  When are you going to develop your mind caveman?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you do not have a mouth you have a muzzle like all apes.and my mind is human unlike your tiny little homo erectus brain......these three ugly bastards could walk side by side through a black community without drawing attention!!!
Click to expand...


Is this really necessary?


----------



## yidnar

Ravi said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like that your PM wants to treat it as a criminal problem. That almost sounds liberal of him....much the same way we should treat terrorists as a criminal problem and not a political problem.
> 
> But I do think they should rethink cutting so many things when so many are out of work. It will just feed into the criminal element.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, we have just had Question Time and the panel admitted that the sort of things people think in the heat of the moment were not really a good idea and although people may want this now, it really was too simplistic.
> 
> A couple of things on QT caught my attention.  What sort of an example have these kids been given?  They are brought up in a society which values what you can buy and the people who are 'running' that society, politicians, bankers and police have all themselves recently been  found lacking on the moral front.
> 
> The second was an idea a member of the audience had.  Rather than sending them to prison, they could get them repairing the communities they had destroyed.  In that way they could learn some skills which might help them to then be able to earn a living.
> 
> A lot of the program sounded like a parenting class because so many of these 'rioters' were kids and it seemed to be generally accepted that they needed both boundaries and opportunities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Huh....just strictly from my observations, prison seems to harden people in to a life of crime.
> 
> I don't really know what the answer is, but I think someone should come up with it, soon.
Click to expand...

i agree execute them.


----------



## Intense

alexa said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one has
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Generally, maybe, but not totally. When it is condoned, it is enabled further, just like not responding to looting encourages more looting. Establishing Law and Order, establishing Justice, is not always an easy thing to do, though throughout the Centuries we try. We have to work within our means, even ensuring that the solution does not compound the problem. You do need to consider training your Military to lend a hand  in National Emergencies, in a way that works with and compliments the police force. We do it here through the National Guard, which our Governors control. It does free up resources. Tear Gas is great at dispersing ans steering crowds too, when used properly. There is always intent, capability, competence, and effectiveness that need to be weighed in when examining the short comings, when this is over. Measure twice and cut once.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is your way. I hope we start to find our way again.  How about a different look
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are not part of the society the people reading this belong to. Rioting last night gave them a sense of power and control, over the police, and over their neighbours. It's a huge oversimplification to say these are simply poor areas. Patterns of housing - particularly the rental market - in London are way more complex than that and Hackney, Clapham, Brixton etc have been increasingly gentrified over the last thirty years. The communities are much more mixed than many commentators will acknowledge. What these riots - which aren't demonstrations, but parties got out of hand, with fires and prizes - is the degree of alienation from their own communities, their inability to acknowledge that they are part of any community. They also don't see themselves as angry or even oppressed, because they cannot look beyond the circumstances they are in and the peer pressures around them. And it is about bad parenting, to the extent that when the 13 to 20% become parents they have no aspirations or responsibilities for their children to inherit. That won't change if you treat merely them as victims, and enhance their sense of entitlement to trainers and TVs, nor if you treat them merely as criminals and process them through a judicial system that encourages recidivism.
> 
> I commented to two of my former pupils last night, who were posting on FB about feeling scared, that they were the reason I felt less scared than most of my friends. I have been watching their responses, particularly the kids who live in the areas affected. The teenagers and younger kids I know, of all ethnicities, have cheered me enormously over the last few days, with the maturity and compassion and concern in their responses and comments. They put a lot of my reactionary acquaintances to shame. They are what I think of when I think of 'London youth'. The future is, I suspect, pretty safe in their hands. And they are only just a percentage point or two, most of them, above the dispossesed 13 to 20%. What lifts them above that is the ability to read and talk and think and the self knowledge and aspiration that comes with those abilities.
> 
> If you think you are an idealist, get off twitter, put down your placard, stop gazing at your navel to examine your privilege. Put your money and time where your mouth is. Go and volunteer in a primary school and sit with those who are struggling to read, go and become a school governor, go and do a bit of training to become an adult advocate so that when one of these kids goes through the judicial system and their parents can't or won't participate in the process, you can be called on to speak to and for them. If you can't do any of those things, work an extra shift or do some baby-sitting to free up a colleague or friend who can. Unlike gesture politics, these acts will make a difference. I've seen the difference they can make; I've seen the tragically slight difference between the 20th and 21st percentile. It's the difference between me and my brothers, between prison and college. It's the difference between the young offender I taught in Cardiff and his cellmates. His daughter, proudly ruffled in a dozen layers of pink lace, was christened with his probationer officer's and my first names, because as he said, without us, he'd be 'dead, not a dad'. I was touched by that comment, but I also thought the tragedy was that most boys who started out like him were both not dead and serial dads. His daughter is very lucky, she'll be brought up with different values to those he grew up with. Aspiration, like alienation is very easy to spread. You just have to get off both your arse and your moral high ground to spread it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Adult Content Notice
Click to expand...

*That is your way. I hope we start to find our way again.*
I hope You find your way too. I'm not trying to impose, just trying to get you to think outside of the box a little. Some of this was coordinated, and I'm not talking about the kids. You need to look into that, because it is not going away. We, the US have contingency plans that even involve Canadian Troops, in a bad enough situation. Our Troops sometimes are the First Response in International Aid and Rescue during Emergencies. Our Coast Guard was the Hero of Katrina, saving countless lives. What I am suggesting is looking at your Military as capable of something more than it's current function. 

In relation to reforming Undesirables, We Each have Angels and Demons doing battle, I don't see too many beyond redemption. That happens when we establish values, not when we corrupt them. Just a thought.


----------



## yidnar

Intense said:


> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Better a filthy mouth then a worthless mind.  When are you going to develop your mind caveman?
> 
> 
> 
> you do not have a mouth you have a muzzle like all apes.and my mind is human unlike your tiny little homo erectus brain......these three ugly bastards could walk side by side through a black community without drawing attention!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is this really necessary?
Click to expand...

absolutely not !!!it is never necessary to use vulgarity like the F WORD !!! Shit Jones uses vulgarity every time his is bested


----------



## Colin

yidnar said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> you do not have a mouth you have a muzzle like all apes.and my mind is human unlike your tiny little homo erectus brain......these three ugly bastards could walk side by side through a black community without drawing attention!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this really necessary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> absolutely not !!!it is never necessary to use vulgarity like the F WORD !!! Shit Jones uses vulgarity every time his is bested
Click to expand...


Can't say I'm surprised that you couldn't fathom out what Intense meant. It takes no more than one brain cell, which seems sadly lacking in your case. Increase the fish in your diet! It may help. I suggest Black Bass as a starter.


----------



## alexa

Intense said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> Generally, maybe, but not totally. When it is condoned, it is enabled further, just like not responding to looting encourages more looting. Establishing Law and Order, establishing Justice, is not always an easy thing to do, though throughout the Centuries we try. We have to work within our means, even ensuring that the solution does not compound the problem. You do need to consider training your Military to lend a hand  in National Emergencies, in a way that works with and compliments the police force. We do it here through the National Guard, which our Governors control. It does free up resources. Tear Gas is great at dispersing ans steering crowds too, when used properly. There is always intent, capability, competence, and effectiveness that need to be weighed in when examining the short comings, when this is over. Measure twice and cut once.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is your way. I hope we start to find our way again.  How about a different look
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are not part of the society the people reading this belong to. Rioting last night gave them a sense of power and control, over the police, and over their neighbours. It's a huge oversimplification to say these are simply poor areas. Patterns of housing - particularly the rental market - in London are way more complex than that and Hackney, Clapham, Brixton etc have been increasingly gentrified over the last thirty years. The communities are much more mixed than many commentators will acknowledge. What these riots - which aren't demonstrations, but parties got out of hand, with fires and prizes - is the degree of alienation from their own communities, their inability to acknowledge that they are part of any community. They also don't see themselves as angry or even oppressed, because they cannot look beyond the circumstances they are in and the peer pressures around them. And it is about bad parenting, to the extent that when the 13 to 20% become parents they have no aspirations or responsibilities for their children to inherit. That won't change if you treat merely them as victims, and enhance their sense of entitlement to trainers and TVs, nor if you treat them merely as criminals and process them through a judicial system that encourages recidivism.
> 
> I commented to two of my former pupils last night, who were posting on FB about feeling scared, that they were the reason I felt less scared than most of my friends. I have been watching their responses, particularly the kids who live in the areas affected. The teenagers and younger kids I know, of all ethnicities, have cheered me enormously over the last few days, with the maturity and compassion and concern in their responses and comments. They put a lot of my reactionary acquaintances to shame. They are what I think of when I think of 'London youth'. The future is, I suspect, pretty safe in their hands. And they are only just a percentage point or two, most of them, above the dispossesed 13 to 20%. What lifts them above that is the ability to read and talk and think and the self knowledge and aspiration that comes with those abilities.
> 
> If you think you are an idealist, get off twitter, put down your placard, stop gazing at your navel to examine your privilege. Put your money and time where your mouth is. Go and volunteer in a primary school and sit with those who are struggling to read, go and become a school governor, go and do a bit of training to become an adult advocate so that when one of these kids goes through the judicial system and their parents can't or won't participate in the process, you can be called on to speak to and for them. If you can't do any of those things, work an extra shift or do some baby-sitting to free up a colleague or friend who can. Unlike gesture politics, these acts will make a difference. I've seen the difference they can make; I've seen the tragically slight difference between the 20th and 21st percentile. It's the difference between me and my brothers, between prison and college. It's the difference between the young offender I taught in Cardiff and his cellmates. His daughter, proudly ruffled in a dozen layers of pink lace, was christened with his probationer officer's and my first names, because as he said, without us, he'd be 'dead, not a dad'. I was touched by that comment, but I also thought the tragedy was that most boys who started out like him were both not dead and serial dads. His daughter is very lucky, she'll be brought up with different values to those he grew up with. Aspiration, like alienation is very easy to spread. You just have to get off both your arse and your moral high ground to spread it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Adult Content Notice
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *That is your way. I hope we start to find our way again.*
> I hope You find your way too. I'm not trying to impose, just trying to get you to think outside of the box a little. Some of this was coordinated, and I'm not talking about the kids. You need to look into that, because it is not going away. We, the US have contingency plans that even involve Canadian Troops, in a bad enough situation. Our Troops sometimes are the First Response in International Aid and Rescue during Emergencies. Our Coast Guard was the Hero of Katrina, saving countless lives. What I am suggesting is looking at your Military as capable of something more than it's current function.
> 
> In relation to reforming Undesirables, We Each have Angels and Demons doing battle, I don't see too many beyond redemption. That happens when we establish values, not when we corrupt them. Just a thought.
Click to expand...


No, I was responding to your belief that anyone would condone such behaviour and your seeming belief that we must.  Of course not.  Nobody could possibly condone such behaviour.  It was late and perhaps I should have responded specifically to what you said.



Intense said:


> When it is condoned, it is enabled further, just like not responding to looting encourages more looting.


  I do not condone this action.  The only people I have seen condoning it also do not when pressed condone it.  But there are some people who believe they understand it and that there was a reason for it.  These are a small number and frequently get shouted at. Parliament yesterday was overwhelmingly speaking of punishment.  Everyone is in agreement that the first thing is for Law and order to be restored which I understand has pretty much been done.




Intense said:


> Establishing Law and Order, establishing Justice, is not always an easy thing to do, though throughout the Centuries we try. We have to work within our means, even ensuring that the solution does not compound the problem. You do need to consider training your Military to lend a hand  in National Emergencies, in a way that works with and compliments the police force. We do it here through the National Guard, which our Governors control. It does free up resources. Tear Gas is great at dispersing ans steering crowds too, when used properly. There is always intent, capability, competence, and effectiveness that need to be weighed in when examining the short comings, when this is over. Measure twice and cut once.



I think we are in disagreement here.  It was a definite choice not to bring in the army.  A definite choice to keep what was criminal activity dealt with by the police.  

Regarding tear gas, it must be understood that this was a very unusual phenomenon.  We were  getting small groups 20-40 people looting in one place for a few minutes and then moving on.  I doubt how useful tear gas would have been and it would have made the streets awful for normal residents in their homes. Water canon was also allowed but the police said it was a completely inappropriate tool in the situation.  One policeman who was asked rubbed his head and said that although people wanted this, they did not understand how it worked and it would not be appropriate.

What worked was massive police presence.  Scottish police for instance came down to Manchester to reinforce Manchester police.  For this reason one of the top arguments in Parliament yesterday was the reduction in funding for our police.

The first day needs to be seen as different to the general looting which took place later as it came from a genuine grievance and took people by surprise and there was a lot of anger on the streets.

Now obviously we will be looking to developing security initiatives should something like this happen again as no one could ever have foreseen nationwide organised looting.  

The police also were allowed to use plastic bullets.  Our police work on a knife edge of how much force they use.  In all this sorry picture, I think the one thing I personally do feel proud of, is that we took care of life. I am glad that there was not an over reaction, that we kept civil society and did not bring in the army, that we dealt with this on it's own level - that of criminal activity.

 Now with cctv, those who thought they had escaped are being rounded up.  We are now faced with 3 issues 

 1. a strategy to deal with such a situation should it happen again which will of course be developed 

2. bringing to court and finding appropriate punishment for those involved

3. Looking into what gave rise to this situation with a view to making changes which would make it unlikely to arise again.



Intense said:


> Some of this was coordinated,



Yes, and that I hope will be looked into. There were clearly some hard nosed criminals co-ordinating things and obviously they will need to be treated differently to the young kids having a ball, defying authority, feeling big and owning the town for a couple of hours.

There also needs to be investigations if there was any political involvement with such people as the EDL trying to stir up racial conflict. The killing in Birmingham certainly put that on a knife edge but was dealt with in a calm, proper and dignified way that we should be proud of.




Intense said:


> In relation to reforming Undesirables, We Each have Angels and Demons doing battle, I don't see too many beyond redemption. That happens when we establish values, not when we corrupt them. Just a thought.



You may remember I said in the post you believed I was condoning that question time had felt that for the vast number of kids what was required was boundaries and opportunities.  I do not move from that.  At the moment they do not see the boundaries, responsibilities if you will.  That needs to change.  However along with that there needs to be a way found for them to be able to see positive possibilities and opportunities. 

To go back to that article I posted



> I said elsewhere that I'd often wondered what happened to the 13 to 20% of kids who walk away from school with no qualifications and very limited numeracy and literacy skills. many of you assumed those are precisly the kids I used to teach, but I taught the ones who scraped through with low grades and went on to vocational courses, or who were resitting their GCSEs in the hope of doing better. Each year's 13 to 20% largely end up on benefits or in jail or in the grey area between the two, claiming what benefits they can and supplementing that income with criminal activity. This is not a recent development; those kids at the bottom have always been there. I know the stats for the last thirteen years only because I've been a teacher for the last thirteen years. *These kids often have virtually no social skills. By that I mean they literally cannot sit in a room and hold a conversation with someone other than those in their peer group. That doesn't matter. They don't have the skills to fill in a job application form, they have nothing to put on it if they did, so no one is going to sit them in a room and give them an interview, unless that someone is in a blue uniform, and they are recording the interview. *
> 
> Pretty much every time I've been served a coffee or a sandwich or walked past someone cleaning the streets and noted they were a recent immigrant, I've wondered about the 13 to 20% leaving school each year and going straight onto the dole. The last government, with its bold claims of 'an end to boom or bust' boasted of our growing economy needing all these extra workers from abroad. Many were coming in to fill gaps in the UK labour market. We kick up to twenty percent of our kids out of school illiterate, innumerate and socially dysfunctional, then we import people to the lowgrade jobs those kids cannot do, so the immigrants can pay taxes to pay the benefits that just about keep that underclass quiet. The last government merely consolidated the neglect of the previous ones. All governments of all hues since the seventies have failed to address this problem; the only difference between them is the narrative they have fed their respective voters about it.



Adult Content Notice

and I need to yet again include the last paragraph I put in last night



> If you think you are an idealist, get off twitter, put down your placard, stop gazing at your navel to examine your privilege. Put your money and time where your mouth is. Go and volunteer in a primary school and sit with those who are struggling to read, go and become a school governor, go and do a bit of training to become an adult advocate so that when one of these kids goes through the judicial system and their parents can't or won't participate in the process, you can be called on to speak to and for them. If you can't do any of those things, work an extra shift or do some baby-sitting to free up a colleague or friend who can. Unlike gesture politics, these acts will make a difference. I've seen the difference they can make; I've seen the tragically slight difference between the 20th and 21st percentile. It's the difference between me and my brothers, between prison and college. It's the difference between the young offender I taught in Cardiff and his cellmates. His daughter, proudly ruffled in a dozen layers of pink lace, was christened with his probationer officer's and my first names, because as he said, without us, he'd be 'dead, not a dad'. I was touched by that comment, but I also thought the tragedy was that most boys who started out like him were both not dead and serial dads. His daughter is very lucky, she'll be brought up with different values to those he grew up with. Aspiration, like alienation is very easy to spread. You just have to get off both your arse and your moral highground to spread it.



It is a situation which needs to be dealt with on many dimensions. Not one anyone wanted, wants or condones. People may have different beliefs on what will sort it.  It is of vital importance that we do make sure we get that right or we will just be seeing the same again. That will not be done unless we are also able to understand what the situation is like for these people and pull them out into the rest of society.  They will soon be having kids themselves. Yesterday a 15 year old looter was at court in Manchester.  The Judge asked where his parents were.  He said no one could come.  The judge remarked that that was a situation which was happening too often. Maybe as in that last quoted paragraph, community needs to help community, giving those who need a hand to come out safely. Do we not all in some way create out own societies?


----------



## editec

Thanks to the BIG BROTHER SECURITY CAMERAS that apparently are ubiquitous in England, the police are now visiting and arresting some of the riots who were caught on camera.


Okay, lovers of freedom, which offends you more?

The anarchists who rioted, or the police Big Brother survelliance system which is now responsible for rounding them up?

Seriously, *lovers of freedom*, which of these two things offends your sensibilities most?


----------



## alexa

editec said:


> Thanks to the BIG BROTHER SECURITY CAMERAS that apparently are ubiquitous in England, the police are now visiting and arresting some of the riots who were caught on camera.
> 
> 
> Okay, lovers of freedom, which offends you more?
> 
> The anarchists who rioted, or the police Big Brother survelliance system which is now responsible for rounding them up?
> 
> Seriously, *lovers of freedom*, which of these two things offends your sensibilities most?





> UK has 1% of world's population but 20% of its CCTV cameras
> 
> Experts have called for a halt in the spread of CCTV cameras.
> 
> Britain is now being watched by a staggering 4.2million - one for every 14 people and a fifth of the cameras in the entire world.
> 
> The Royal Academy of Engineering also warned that lives could be put at risk by the lurch towards a 'big brother' society in which the Government and even supermarkets hold huge amounts of personal information on us.
> 
> It said any system was vulnerable to abuse - including bribery of staff and computer hackers gaining acc



UK has 1% of world's population but 20% of its CCTV cameras | News

BBC NEWS | UK | Britain is 'surveillance society'

but



> Number of crimes caught on CCTV falls by 70 per cent, Metropolitan Police admits
> Prosecutions linked to CCTV have fallen in parts of Britain, raising questions about the true impact of the security cameras.
> 
> The drop has raised fears that the effectiveness of CCTV has been exaggerated. Prosecutions in Britain's largest force fell once it changed the way detections linked to cameras were recorded.
> 
> The Metropolitan Police saw the number of solved crimes linked to CCTV drop by more than half in just five years. Other forces are expected to have seen a similar effect.
> 
> Britain has the most CCTV cameras per head of any country in the world, with people said to be caught on camera as many as 300 times a day.



Number of crimes caught on CCTV falls by 70 per cent, Metropolitan Police admits - Telegraph

England also has a problem  with taking people's DNA.

No the CCTV are not acceptable and are dangerous but as they are here clearly the police will use them to find looters.


----------



## Colin

editec said:


> Thanks to the BIG BROTHER SECURITY CAMERAS that apparently are ubiquitous in England, the police are now visiting and arresting some of the riots who were caught on camera.
> 
> 
> Okay, lovers of freedom, which offends you more?
> 
> The anarchists who rioted, or the police Big Brother survelliance system which is now responsible for rounding them up?
> 
> Seriously, *lovers of freedom*, which of these two things offends your sensibilities most?



Lol! The only ones to fear CCTV cameras are those up to no good! To be honest, given the scum that roams our sytreets these days, I am glad we have them. People like me have nothing to fear from them.


----------



## Ravi

Colin said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to the BIG BROTHER SECURITY CAMERAS that apparently are ubiquitous in England, the police are now visiting and arresting some of the riots who were caught on camera.
> 
> 
> Okay, lovers of freedom, which offends you more?
> 
> The anarchists who rioted, or the police Big Brother survelliance system which is now responsible for rounding them up?
> 
> Seriously, *lovers of freedom*, which of these two things offends your sensibilities most?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol! The only ones to fear CCTV cameras are those up to no good! To be honest, given the scum that roams our sytreets these days, I am glad we have them. People like me have nothing to fear from them.
Click to expand...


Last time I was in London and riding the tube it gave me the creeps to know that I was being filmed.


----------



## alexa

Ravi said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to the BIG BROTHER SECURITY CAMERAS that apparently are ubiquitous in England, the police are now visiting and arresting some of the riots who were caught on camera.
> 
> 
> Okay, lovers of freedom, which offends you more?
> 
> The anarchists who rioted, or the police Big Brother survelliance system which is now responsible for rounding them up?
> 
> Seriously, *lovers of freedom*, which of these two things offends your sensibilities most?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol! The only ones to fear CCTV cameras are those up to no good! To be honest, given the scum that roams our sytreets these days, I am glad we have them. People like me have nothing to fear from them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Last time I was in London and riding the tube it gave me the creeps to know that I was being filmed.
Click to expand...


I agree.  Ever gone to a toilet that tells you CCTV is in operation


----------



## alexa

> *UK riots: police round on government*
> 
> Met chief dismisses criticism from PM and home secretary as 'people making comments who weren't there'
> 
> The officer at the helm of the Metropolitan police this morning took a swipe at the government's criticism of his force's handling of the riots.
> 
> -snip-*"What I can say is that with the unprecedented scenes that we found in London, I have got some of the best commanders that we have seen in the world  that showed great restraint as well as great courage," Godwin said.*
> 
> "As a result of that we were able to nip this in the bud after a few days. I think the issue around the numbers, the issue around the tactics  they are all police decisions and they are all made by my police commanders and myself.
> *
> "As a result of that we have now got a lot of public support, we are working hard to identify all the offenders and we will continue to work relentlessly if it takes us months."*
> 
> Sir Hugh Orde, president of the Association of Chief Police Officers, rejected Theresa May's claim that she had ordered the "more robust" approach that quelled rioting in English cities.
> 
> Orde said tactics had changed because more officers were made available. The fact that MPs had come home from holiday was "an irrelevance".
> 
> May had "no power whatsoever" to cancel all police leave, Orde said. "The more robust policing tactics you saw were not a function of political interference; they were a function of the numbers being available to allow the chief constables to change their tactics," he told BBC's Newsnight.



UK riots: police round on government | UK news | guardian.co.uk

I agree.  Despite some people's personal opinion, if the police had gone in killing people and seriously injuring masses, the British public in general would have been horrified.


----------



## Ravi

Yeah, it would be awful to watch the police kill a bunch of kids.


----------



## alexa

Courts sitting all night are handing out unusually harsh sentences



> Again and again, the judges repeated the refrain "jurisdiction is declined". They considered the maximum powers of sentencing available to magistrates &#8211; six months in prison, or a £5,000 fine &#8211; to be insufficient, and so referred the case to the crown courts, where the cases will be heard before a jury. Very few of the accused were granted bail. At least one solicitor outside court six expressed concern at some of the courts' decisions, on a day when David Cameron had vowed that anyone charged with rioting should be remanded in custody and anyone convicted should expect to go to jail.
> 
> Rajinder Claire, who was representing several alleged rioters, said defendants who would normally be released on bail were being routinely remanded in custody. "The decisions seem to be being taken in a routine manner without enough consideration for the distinct factors of each case," he told reporters, *"It certainly seems to me that it is being motivated by political pressure."*
> 
> Certainly there were indications, in the comparatively small number of cases that reached sentencing, that magistrates across the country were in little mood for leniency.
> 
> In Manchester,* Eoin Flanagan, 18, pleaded guilty to theft after he was arrested in Oxford Road with two jumpers and two pieces of musical equipment; he was jailed for eight months.*
> 
> At Camberwell Green magistrates, *Nicholas Robinson, 23, an electrical engineering student with no previous convictions, was jailed for the maximum permitted six months after pleading guilty to stealing bottles of water worth £3.50 from Lidl in Brixton*. He had been walking back from his girlfriend's house in the early hours of Monday morning when he saw the store being looted, his lawyer said, and had taken the opportunity to go in and help himself to a case of water because he was thirsty. He was caught up in the moment, and was ashamed of his actions, his defence said.



UK riots: in courtrooms across country, there was little room for leniency | UK news | The Guardian


----------



## Ravi

I wonder....I read that a lot of teen programs were cut to reduce the debt. What will be the cost of keeping these people in jail in comparison?


----------



## alexa

Ravi said:


> I wonder....I read that a lot of teen programs were cut to reduce the debt. What will be the cost of keeping these people in jail in comparison?



Well we were intending on sending far less people to jail as well.  It looks like this is being done as a knee jerk response.  If the story is true then the guy who stole the water who had no previous convictions would earlier just have got a warning rather than a 6 month sentence and criminal record, I would think.

About youth programs - in Tottenham where it all began they had had 75% of their youth funds removed as well as two youth clubs.  Someone asked about that in Parliament yesterday and I think Cameron just said that was no reason for looting and rioting.  I would be very surprised if they do not shortly see the need to have another think.


----------



## English Dave

I just saw on the news that a 68 year old man who tried to stop looters setting fire to
a shop has died from his injuries caused by his brave action. Ravi said a while back that 
she hopes someone comes up with an answer to all this soon. Sadly, I don't think there
is an answer. Money has been thrown at these problems for years to no avail. What can
you do about useless men having sex with pathetic women and producing children they
don't look after properly? A lot of the so called fathers just walk away to produce more
children elsewhere. It has been getting steadily worse for many years. I truly don't envy
politicians who search for solutions.


----------



## chanel

People are fed up and they are realizing the root of the problem - entitlement junkies.



> Rioters face losing their benefits cash... and they could be kicked out of council houses
> 
> * Petition website crashes after massive demand
> * Works and Pensions Minister puts together plan to deprive convicted rioters of benefits
> * Host of local councils vow to boot out looters from homes
> 
> 
> Read more: UK riots: Looters should lose benefits and be evicted say 100k in 48hrs on e-petition | Mail Online


----------



## Intense

editec said:


> Thanks to the BIG BROTHER SECURITY CAMERAS that apparently are ubiquitous in England, the police are now visiting and arresting some of the riots who were caught on camera.
> 
> 
> Okay, lovers of freedom, which offends you more?
> 
> The anarchists who rioted, or the police Big Brother survelliance system which is now responsible for rounding them up?
> 
> Seriously, *lovers of freedom*, which of these two things offends your sensibilities most?



Cameras in a Public place that are there for Security are there for Security, Einstein. I would be offended if they did not utilize the resource.


----------



## alexa

Intense said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to the BIG BROTHER SECURITY CAMERAS that apparently are ubiquitous in England, the police are now visiting and arresting some of the riots who were caught on camera.
> 
> 
> Okay, lovers of freedom, which offends you more?
> 
> The anarchists who rioted, or the police Big Brother survelliance system which is now responsible for rounding them up?
> 
> Seriously, *lovers of freedom*, which of these two things offends your sensibilities most?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cameras in a Public place that are there for Security are there for Security, Einstein. I would be offended if they did not utilize the resource.
Click to expand...


More  We already have them in toilets! Britain has 1% of the world's population and 20% of it's CCTV cameras.  We have been asleep while we became a surveillance society.

BBC NEWS | UK | Britain is 'surveillance society'


----------



## Ravi

alexa said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to the BIG BROTHER SECURITY CAMERAS that apparently are ubiquitous in England, the police are now visiting and arresting some of the riots who were caught on camera.
> 
> 
> Okay, lovers of freedom, which offends you more?
> 
> The anarchists who rioted, or the police Big Brother survelliance system which is now responsible for rounding them up?
> 
> Seriously, *lovers of freedom*, which of these two things offends your sensibilities most?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cameras in a Public place that are there for Security are there for Security, Einstein. I would be offended if they did not utilize the resource.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More  We already have them in toilets! Britain has 1% of the world's population and 20% of it's CCTV cameras.  We have been asleep while we became a surveillance society.
> 
> BBC NEWS | UK | Britain is 'surveillance society'
Click to expand...


This is yet one more example how our anti-big government cons are anything but.


----------



## Intense

alexa said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to the BIG BROTHER SECURITY CAMERAS that apparently are ubiquitous in England, the police are now visiting and arresting some of the riots who were caught on camera.
> 
> 
> Okay, lovers of freedom, which offends you more?
> 
> The anarchists who rioted, or the police Big Brother survelliance system which is now responsible for rounding them up?
> 
> Seriously, *lovers of freedom*, which of these two things offends your sensibilities most?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cameras in a Public place that are there for Security are there for Security, Einstein. I would be offended if they did not utilize the resource.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More  We already have them in toilets! Britain has 1% of the world's population and 20% of it's CCTV cameras.  We have been asleep while we became a surveillance society.
> 
> BBC NEWS | UK | Britain is 'surveillance society'
Click to expand...


That I do not support in any way. Public Streets, Public Areas in Shopping Malls, Store security has been that way for a very long time now.


----------



## High_Gravity

English Dave said:


> I just saw on the news that a 68 year old man who tried to stop looters setting fire to
> a shop has died from his injuries caused by his brave action. Ravi said a while back that
> she hopes someone comes up with an answer to all this soon. Sadly, I don't think there
> is an answer. Money has been thrown at these problems for years to no avail. *What can
> you do about useless men having sex with pathetic women and producing children they
> don't look after properly? A lot of the so called fathers just walk away to produce more
> children elsewhere. It has been getting steadily worse for many years. I truly don't envy
> politicians who search for solutions*.



Indeed, thats a problem here in the US too, idiots having children. I don't know what can be done unless a program is started that offers a cash bonus for every man and woman who comes forward to get a vasectomy or their tubes tied.


----------



## Intense

Ravi said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cameras in a Public place that are there for Security are there for Security, Einstein. I would be offended if they did not utilize the resource.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More  We already have them in toilets! Britain has 1% of the world's population and 20% of it's CCTV cameras.  We have been asleep while we became a surveillance society.
> 
> BBC NEWS | UK | Britain is 'surveillance society'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is yet one more example how our anti-big government cons are anything but.
Click to expand...


You are sweet Ravi, but clueless. Sorry. When was the last time you entered a shop that did not have surveillance? Why is that you suppose? Private Property Surveillance, Commercial Property Surveillance? Bank Surveillance? 7-11, Mass Transit? Why is that? 
Are there boundaries and limits? Yes, as there should be. Bath Rooms, Changing Rooms, should be off limits, any area that requires privacy should be. 
Why go there Ravi? Why inject false notion? Slow news cycle day? No.


----------



## alexa

High_Gravity said:


> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw on the news that a 68 year old man who tried to stop looters setting fire to
> a shop has died from his injuries caused by his brave action. Ravi said a while back that
> she hopes someone comes up with an answer to all this soon. Sadly, I don't think there
> is an answer. Money has been thrown at these problems for years to no avail. *What can
> you do about useless men having sex with pathetic women and producing children they
> don't look after properly? A lot of the so called fathers just walk away to produce more
> children elsewhere. It has been getting steadily worse for many years. I truly don't envy
> politicians who search for solutions*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, thats a problem here in the US too, idiots having children. I don't know what can be done unless a program is started that offers a cash bonus for every man and woman who comes forward to get a vasectomy or their tubes tied.
Click to expand...


You believe eugenics is the way to sort  social problems?


----------



## Intense

High_Gravity said:


> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw on the news that a 68 year old man who tried to stop looters setting fire to
> a shop has died from his injuries caused by his brave action. Ravi said a while back that
> she hopes someone comes up with an answer to all this soon. Sadly, I don't think there
> is an answer. Money has been thrown at these problems for years to no avail. *What can
> you do about useless men having sex with pathetic women and producing children they
> don't look after properly? A lot of the so called fathers just walk away to produce more
> children elsewhere. It has been getting steadily worse for many years. I truly don't envy
> politicians who search for solutions*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, thats a problem here in the US too, idiots having children. I don't know what can be done unless a program is started that offers a cash bonus for every man and woman who comes forward to get a vasectomy or their tubes tied.
Click to expand...


Hey, stop that. You do know that sometimes the trait does skip a generation or two.


----------



## alexa

Intense said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> More  We already have them in toilets! Britain has 1% of the world's population and 20% of it's CCTV cameras.  We have been asleep while we became a surveillance society.
> 
> BBC NEWS | UK | Britain is 'surveillance society'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is yet one more example how our anti-big government cons are anything but.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are sweet Ravi, but clueless. Sorry. When was the last time you entered a shop that did not have surveillance? Why is that you suppose? Private Property Surveillance, Commercial Property Surveillance? Bank Surveillance? 7-11, Mass Transit? Why is that?
> Are there boundaries and limits? Yes, as there should be. Bath Rooms, Changing Rooms, should be off limits, any area that requires privacy should be.
> Why go there Ravi? Why inject false notion? Slow news cycle day? No.
Click to expand...


What happens when by some twist of fate the EDL gain rule of Britain and we are no longer a democracy.

Even in smaller ways this spying of people can be misused. Even with all our CCTV cameras 80% of crime remains unsolved

Tens of thousands of CCTV cameras, yet 80% of crime unsolved | News

or

1,000 CCTV cameras to solve just one crime, Met Police admits - Telegraph

Is it really worth the risks and invasion into our privacy.


----------



## St.Blues

Ravi said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to the BIG BROTHER SECURITY CAMERAS that apparently are ubiquitous in England, the police are now visiting and arresting some of the riots who were caught on camera.
> 
> 
> Okay, lovers of freedom, which offends you more?
> 
> The anarchists who rioted, or the police Big Brother survelliance system which is now responsible for rounding them up?
> 
> Seriously, *lovers of freedom*, which of these two things offends your sensibilities most?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol! The only ones to fear CCTV cameras are those up to no good! To be honest, given the scum that roams our sytreets these days, I am glad we have them. People like me have nothing to fear from them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Last time I was in London and riding the tube it gave me the creeps to know that I was being filmed.
Click to expand...


Ravi, I need your permission to have some fun with this one... What do you say?
Can I go for it?

Blues


----------



## Intense

alexa said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is yet one more example how our anti-big government cons are anything but.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are sweet Ravi, but clueless. Sorry. When was the last time you entered a shop that did not have surveillance? Why is that you suppose? Private Property Surveillance, Commercial Property Surveillance? Bank Surveillance? 7-11, Mass Transit? Why is that?
> Are there boundaries and limits? Yes, as there should be. Bath Rooms, Changing Rooms, should be off limits, any area that requires privacy should be.
> Why go there Ravi? Why inject false notion? Slow news cycle day? No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What happens when by some twist of fate the EDL gain rule of Britain and we are no longer a democracy.
> 
> Even in smaller ways this spying of people can be misused. Even with all our CCTV cameras 80% of crime remains unsolved
> 
> Tens of thousands of CCTV cameras, yet 80% of crime unsolved | News
> 
> or
> 
> 1,000 CCTV cameras to solve just one crime, Met Police admits - Telegraph
> 
> Is it really worth the risks and invasion into our privacy.
Click to expand...


On a Public Street it is not an invasion of your privacy. I strongly support the Right to Privacy, and often wonder why it was left out of our Bill of Rights. Still, a Public Street or Center is not Private.


----------



## alexa

Intense said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are sweet Ravi, but clueless. Sorry. When was the last time you entered a shop that did not have surveillance? Why is that you suppose? Private Property Surveillance, Commercial Property Surveillance? Bank Surveillance? 7-11, Mass Transit? Why is that?
> Are there boundaries and limits? Yes, as there should be. Bath Rooms, Changing Rooms, should be off limits, any area that requires privacy should be.
> Why go there Ravi? Why inject false notion? Slow news cycle day? No.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What happens when by some twist of fate the EDL gain rule of Britain and we are no longer a democracy.
> 
> Even in smaller ways this spying of people can be misused. Even with all our CCTV cameras 80% of crime remains unsolved
> 
> Tens of thousands of CCTV cameras, yet 80% of crime unsolved | News
> 
> or
> 
> 1,000 CCTV cameras to solve just one crime, Met Police admits - Telegraph
> 
> Is it really worth the risks and invasion into our privacy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On a Public Street it is not an invasion of your privacy. I strongly support the Right to Privacy, and often wonder why it was left out of our Bill of Rights. Still, a Public Street or Center is not Private.
Click to expand...


Well I can remember when we used to manage without surveillance and no problems at all.

There is no question that agreeing with all this surveillance is trusting that it will be used with discretion. 

It has potential danger to me, particular as I said should some undesirables manage to take power which is not something you can say could never happen.  

But back to that BBC report on the British surveillance society and other issues



> There are up to 4.2m CCTV cameras in Britain - about one for every 14 people.
> 
> But surveillance ranges from US security agencies monitoring telecommunications traffic passing through Britain, to key stroke information used to gauge work rates and GPS information tracking company vehicles, the Report on the Surveillance Society says.
> 
> It predicts that by 2016 shoppers could be scanned as they enter stores, schools could bring in cards allowing parents to monitor what their children eat, and jobs may be refused to applicants who are seen as a health risk.
> 
> "We have more CCTV cameras and we have looser laws on privacy and data protection," he said.
> 
> "We really do have a society which is premised both on state secrecy and the state not giving up its supposed right to keep information under control while, at the same time, wanting to know as much as it can about us."
> 
> *The report coincides with the publication by the human rights group Privacy International of figures that suggest Britain is the worst Western democracy at protecting individual privacy.
> 
> The two worst countries in the 36-nation survey are Malaysia and China, and Britain is one of the bottom five with "endemic surveillance".*
> 
> *Mr Thomas called for a debate about the risks if information gathered is wrong or falls into the wrong hands. *
> 
> We've got to say where do we want the lines to be drawn? How much do we want to have surveillance changing the nature of society in a democratic nation?" he told the BBC.



BBC NEWS | UK | Britain is 'surveillance society'


----------



## California Girl

I'm quite enjoying the 'swift' justice that's being delivered in England. I find it very entertaining that the police are kicking in doors and arresting these little assholes. 

Now we have some interesting dilemmas: 

They can evict the families of some of these thugs... those that are in social housing and have signed 'behavior contracts'. But is that a good thing to do? Where do they go? Does it solve anything? 

They can withdraw benefits from those who are claiming... but if they do that, surely, those people are going to turn to yet more crime - because they will have no money. 

Tricky shit.


----------



## High_Gravity

California Girl said:


> I'm quite enjoying the 'swift' justice that's being delivered in England. I find it very entertaining that the police are kicking in doors and arresting these little assholes.
> 
> Now we have some interesting dilemmas:
> 
> They can evict the families of some of these thugs... those that are in social housing and have signed 'behavior contracts'. But is that a good thing to do? Where do they go? Does it solve anything?
> 
> They can withdraw benefits from those who are claiming... but if they do that, surely, those people are going to turn to yet more crime - because they will have no money.
> 
> Tricky shit.



Maybe a Guantenamo style prison camp?


----------



## alexa

California Girl said:


> They can evict the families of some of these thugs... those that are in social housing and have signed 'behavior contracts'. But is that a good thing to do? Where do they go? Does it solve anything?
> 
> 
> Tricky shit.



That is a potential nightmare as if they do and they are families which they likely will be they will probably move them to another area.  Not only that, certainly in Scotland they try to move them to better areas in the home that will improve their behaviour but obviously it just gives the new people the problem.


----------



## California Girl

alexa said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> They can evict the families of some of these thugs... those that are in social housing and have signed 'behavior contracts'. But is that a good thing to do? Where do they go? Does it solve anything?
> 
> 
> Tricky shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is a potential nightmare as if they do and they are families which they likely will be they will probably move them to another area.  Not only that, certainly in Scotland they try to move them to better areas in the home that will improve their behaviour but obviously it just gives the new people the problem.
Click to expand...


I am leaning towards some good old 'restorative justice' for many of these kids. Not the ringleaders, but the followers. Kids are quite easily led and tend not to consider the consequence of their actions. That does not mean we should excuse their behavior completely. I would suggest that they are made to go back into the communities they have devastated and clean up after themselves - of course, much of the 'clean up' has been done but they can help rebuild what they damaged.... and it would teach them practical skills as well as having them pay back their communities. 

I can see a benefit in moving them. If those kids had burned my home, I would not want them back living near me with no consequence. 

I am all for a total review of the education system too. Stop trying to ram all these kids into universities. Most of them are not capable of achieving a degree and it would be pointless. You need more apprenticeships and vocational courses in schools to help these kids get skills that are desperately needed in the UK. And, you need to stop this out of control immigration - so that these kids have jobs.


----------



## English Dave

The benefits culture has to be tackled, many past governments have said they are going
to, but nothing changes. It can't be right that hard working Britons, go to work, and end
up with less than people sitting at home contributing nothing, and many with no intention
of doing so. We can't go on with girls deliberately getting pregnant to gey social housing.
There are couples who try to do things the right way, trying to get social housing waiting
for many years on lists, with single girls jumping above them on the waiting list by getting
pregnant. We can't carry on with immigrants coming here and getting social housing ahead
of English people because their need is seen as greater, because English couples may be
living with parents. This is unfair and unjust.


----------



## High_Gravity

English Dave said:


> The benefits culture has to be tackled, many past governments have said they are going
> to, but nothing changes. It can't be right that hard working Britons, go to work, and end
> up with less than people sitting at home contributing nothing, and many with no intention
> of doing so. We can't go on with girls deliberately getting pregnant to gey social housing.
> There are couples who try to do things the right way, trying to get social housing waiting
> for many years on lists, with single girls jumping above them on the waiting list by getting
> pregnant. We can't carry on with immigrants coming here and getting social housing ahead
> of English people because their need is seen as greater, because English couples may be
> living with parents. This is unfair and unjust.



Very good points Dave.


----------



## English Dave

I can get very emotional about all this, and I know this board is not the place for that. I
just despair at where we're heading. As others have said, there are facist groups watching
and waiting. I well remember history books telling us what happened in Germany in the
early 30s when Hitler came to power. The probems are so massive I fear the government
will make all the right noises for a time, then slip back because the problems are 
overwhelming. To tackle this properly will take enormous courage and determination. I hope
someone has the guts to do it.


----------



## Ravi

English Dave said:


> The benefits culture has to be tackled, many past governments have said they are going
> to, but nothing changes. It can't be right that hard working Britons, go to work, and end
> up with less than people sitting at home contributing nothing, and many with no intention
> of doing so. We can't go on with girls deliberately getting pregnant to gey social housing.
> There are couples who try to do things the right way, trying to get social housing waiting
> for many years on lists, with single girls jumping above them on the waiting list by getting
> pregnant. We can't carry on with immigrants coming here and getting social housing ahead
> of English people because their need is seen as greater, because English couples may be
> living with parents. This is unfair and unjust.


I have to laugh at this combined with your subsequent post.

Sounds to me like you are one of those fascists you worry about.


----------



## alexa

California Girl said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> They can evict the families of some of these thugs... those that are in social housing and have signed 'behavior contracts'. But is that a good thing to do? Where do they go? Does it solve anything?
> 
> 
> Tricky shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is a potential nightmare as if they do and they are families which they likely will be they will probably move them to another area.  Not only that, certainly in Scotland they try to move them to better areas in the home that will improve their behaviour but obviously it just gives the new people the problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am leaning towards some good old 'restorative justice' for many of these kids. Not the ringleaders, but the followers. Kids are quite easily led and tend not to consider the consequence of their actions. That does not mean we should excuse their behavior completely. I would suggest that they are made to go back into the communities they have devastated and clean up after themselves - of course, much of the 'clean up' has been done but they can help rebuild what they damaged.... and it would teach them practical skills as well as having them pay back their communities.
Click to expand...


That was suggested on Question Time last night.  It could result in them also learning some skills which could be of benefit to them for getting a job.  Done properly it could be very positive.  



California Girl said:


> I can see a benefit in moving them. If those kids had burned my home, I would not want them back living near me with no consequence.



Thing is a lot were not doing damage in their own community and they know that.  If they were damaging their own community there would be a case for that but I get the impression it is just going to happen regardless of what they have done and if they had been no problems to the community would seem silly. It is just going to move the problem on - according to Cameron to private housing.

I think it would be good if things were a bit more fluid than they seem to be.  For instance one 23 year old with no criminal record, on his way home with his girlfriend came upon a shop which had been looted and thought what the hell and took some water worth just over £3.  He has been given a 6 month prison sentence.  I think that is ridiculous.  Of course what he did was wrong, but he was not out looting, just a bad decision in a moment may cost him his adult life - or I guess that will go to appeal.



California Girl said:


> I am all for a total review of the education system too. Stop trying to ram all these kids into universities. Most of them are not capable of achieving a degree and it would be pointless. You need more apprenticeships and vocational courses in schools to help these kids get skills that are desperately needed in the UK. And, you need to stop this out of control immigration - so that these kids have jobs.



well according to that teacher whose article I put in earlier their are a regular 13 - 20% who barely learn to read.  If a kid does not get reading by 7 they usually never do - or at least that was what it used to be like.

I would not be in favour of anything resembling the old secondary modern's.  You simply cannot tell a person's potential at that young age but I would at least like to see no child getting to seven without learning to read and write (unless of course their is a genuine reason for it).  There really isn't any reason why these kids should not be able to achieve as well as anyone else.  The previous governments 'early start' was beginning to see results.  Unfortunately all these things have been dramatically cut. They need to know that they can aspire to just the same as anyone else and that can of course include apprentiships.

You also need to deal with social support as there does not seem to be that much going on in the family, so you need good, strong community workers.

What the heck, there is only one thing for it - increase taxes


----------



## Colin

alexa said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is yet one more example how our anti-big government cons are anything but.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are sweet Ravi, but clueless. Sorry. When was the last time you entered a shop that did not have surveillance? Why is that you suppose? Private Property Surveillance, Commercial Property Surveillance? Bank Surveillance? 7-11, Mass Transit? Why is that?
> Are there boundaries and limits? Yes, as there should be. Bath Rooms, Changing Rooms, should be off limits, any area that requires privacy should be.
> Why go there Ravi? Why inject false notion? Slow news cycle day? No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What happens when by some twist of fate the EDL gain rule of Britain and we are no longer a democracy.
> 
> Even in smaller ways this spying of people can be misused. Even with all our CCTV cameras 80% of crime remains unsolved
> 
> Tens of thousands of CCTV cameras, yet 80% of crime unsolved | News
> 
> or
> 
> 1,000 CCTV cameras to solve just one crime, Met Police admits - Telegraph
> 
> Is it really worth the risks and invasion into our privacy.
Click to expand...


Now I know you're a nutcase. The EDL gain control!  You mean that bunch of hairy arsed racist skinheads who couldn't even put a candidate up for election! Give us a break!


----------



## Colin

Ravi said:


> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> The benefits culture has to be tackled, many past governments have said they are going
> to, but nothing changes. It can't be right that hard working Britons, go to work, and end
> up with less than people sitting at home contributing nothing, and many with no intention
> of doing so. We can't go on with girls deliberately getting pregnant to gey social housing.
> There are couples who try to do things the right way, trying to get social housing waiting
> for many years on lists, with single girls jumping above them on the waiting list by getting
> pregnant. We can't carry on with immigrants coming here and getting social housing ahead
> of English people because their need is seen as greater, because English couples may be
> living with parents. This is unfair and unjust.
> 
> 
> 
> I have to laugh at this combined with your subsequent post.
> 
> Sounds to me like you are one of those fascists you worry about.
Click to expand...


Really? That's as ridiculous as saying you're a communist...oh, wait....


----------



## English Dave

You won't quieten me with your insults Ravi. You seem to think what I say is fascist. What
do you base that on - do you say my statements are untrue? What do you think can be 
done to solve these major problems? Or do you think it'll all work itself out in the end? I
used to think that years ago, that is not the case any more. We have been cowed by 
governments and their agencies for many years while they carried out their social 
experiments on us - look at the results.


----------



## alexa

alexa said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is yet one more example how our anti-big government cons are anything but.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are sweet Ravi, but clueless. Sorry. When was the last time you entered a shop that did not have surveillance? Why is that you suppose? Private Property Surveillance, Commercial Property Surveillance? Bank Surveillance? 7-11, Mass Transit? Why is that?
> Are there boundaries and limits? Yes, as there should be. Bath Rooms, Changing Rooms, should be off limits, any area that requires privacy should be.
> Why go there Ravi? Why inject false notion? Slow news cycle day? No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What happens when by some twist of fate the EDL gain rule of Britain and we are no longer a democracy.
> 
> Even in smaller ways this spying of people can be misused. Even with all our CCTV cameras 80% of crime remains unsolved
> 
> Tens of thousands of CCTV cameras, yet 80% of crime unsolved | News
> 
> or
> 
> 1,000 CCTV cameras to solve just one crime, Met Police admits - Telegraph
> 
> Is it really worth the risks and invasion into our privacy.
Click to expand...


Your reply to this ghook 





> London on Lockdown 	08-12-2011 04:37 PM 	GHook93 	Shut up you dumb whore, you don't own shit, you were probably one of the looter! Fuck bitch!


  pretty much confirms what I have sussed about you.  You are one of those Gobal anti-muslim extremists aren't you, possibly also a Christian Zionist wanting the lot for yourself.  Continue to be insane.  It is of no interest to me but I will not support your friends the EDL thugs who were in cahoot with Breivik.  God you are so sad supporting the friends of a terrorist child killer.


----------



## Ravi

English Dave said:


> You won't quieten me with your insults Ravi. You seem to think what I say is fascist. What
> do you base that on - do you say my statements are untrue? What do you think can be
> done to solve these major problems? Or do you think it'll all work itself out in the end? I
> used to think that years ago, that is not the case any more. We have been cowed by
> governments and their agencies for many years while they carried out their social
> experiments on us - look at the results.


I didn't mean it as an insult, just a fact.


----------



## Ravi

alexa said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are sweet Ravi, but clueless. Sorry. When was the last time you entered a shop that did not have surveillance? Why is that you suppose? Private Property Surveillance, Commercial Property Surveillance? Bank Surveillance? 7-11, Mass Transit? Why is that?
> Are there boundaries and limits? Yes, as there should be. Bath Rooms, Changing Rooms, should be off limits, any area that requires privacy should be.
> Why go there Ravi? Why inject false notion? Slow news cycle day? No.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What happens when by some twist of fate the EDL gain rule of Britain and we are no longer a democracy.
> 
> Even in smaller ways this spying of people can be misused. Even with all our CCTV cameras 80% of crime remains unsolved
> 
> Tens of thousands of CCTV cameras, yet 80% of crime unsolved | News
> 
> or
> 
> 1,000 CCTV cameras to solve just one crime, Met Police admits - Telegraph
> 
> Is it really worth the risks and invasion into our privacy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your reply to this ghook
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> London on Lockdown 	08-12-2011 04:37 PM 	GHook93 	Shut up you dumb whore, you don't own shit, you were probably one of the looter! Fuck bitch!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> pretty much confirms what I have sussed about you.  You are one of those Gobal anti-muslim extremists aren't you, possibly also a Christian Zionist wanting the lot for yourself.  Continue to be insane.  It is of no interest to me but I will not support your friends the EDL thugs who were in cahoot with Breivik.  God you are a sad would be killer of children.
Click to expand...


He's a Jew. And there's nothing wrong with being a Zionist.


----------



## Tank

Ravi thinks if England became 100% Muslim, nothing would change.

You know "people are people"


----------



## editec

Well this event certainly gave us the opprtunity to see how the question of RIGHT TO PRIVACY and the RIGHT TO BE SAFE can bring us to conflict does it not?

Englands people are the most scrutinized people in the world techically speaking.

Are they safer as a result?

I can't help but note here that some the people on this board who insist they hate the NANNY STATE and government's insinating themselves into their lifes, feel okay about this obvious SURVEILLANCE STATISM.

What this show us is that it is EASY to take a lotfy philosophical position that sounds like you love freedom more than everybody else.

But implementing that noble philosophy in the REAL WORLD?

Well then one might find oneself backing down a bit from that former position.

The difference between one's ideology and implementation of that ideology can be rather vast.


----------



## recklesslogic

Ravi, I have been reading your exchanges with English Dave for some time now and to be fair.  He is coming across as someone that's stating facts and giving an honest opinion on his experience of the country he lives in.  You on the other hand are coming across as defensive and simply shouting 'Racist'  and 'Fascist' in order to somehow try and silence the argument into your favour. 

This is the reason why nothing will ever change in the UK.  Because every time anyone expresses an opinion on the disastrous immigration policies of the UK and a welfare system that is being abused by people from every corner of the world, someone like you pops their head up and squeeks 'Racists'.

Why don't you try discussing things openly and intelligently with any knowledge and experience that you may have? Rather than trying to silence people with cheap and poorly judged insults.  

There are people in this world going unheard who are stating the bleeding obvious on all manner of issues and are simply ignored by Governments or shouted down by the blind.  One day we may just look back and think of where it all started to go wrong and who we should have listened to in the beginning.

By then it might just be too late.


----------



## California Girl

alexa said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is a potential nightmare as if they do and they are families which they likely will be they will probably move them to another area.  Not only that, certainly in Scotland they try to move them to better areas in the home that will improve their behaviour but obviously it just gives the new people the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am leaning towards some good old 'restorative justice' for many of these kids. Not the ringleaders, but the followers. Kids are quite easily led and tend not to consider the consequence of their actions. That does not mean we should excuse their behavior completely. I would suggest that they are made to go back into the communities they have devastated and clean up after themselves - of course, much of the 'clean up' has been done but they can help rebuild what they damaged.... and it would teach them practical skills as well as having them pay back their communities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was suggested on Question Time last night.  It could result in them also learning some skills which could be of benefit to them for getting a job.  Done properly it could be very positive.
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can see a benefit in moving them. If those kids had burned my home, I would not want them back living near me with no consequence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thing is a lot were not doing damage in their own community and they know that.  If they were damaging their own community there would be a case for that but I get the impression it is just going to happen regardless of what they have done and if they had been no problems to the community would seem silly. It is just going to move the problem on - according to Cameron to private housing.
> 
> I think it would be good if things were a bit more fluid than they seem to be.  For instance one 23 year old with no criminal record, on his way home with his girlfriend came upon a shop which had been looted and thought what the hell and took some water worth just over £3.  He has been given a 6 month prison sentence.  I think that is ridiculous.  Of course what he did was wrong, but he was not out looting, just a bad decision in a moment may cost him his adult life - or I guess that will go to appeal.
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am all for a total review of the education system too. Stop trying to ram all these kids into universities. Most of them are not capable of achieving a degree and it would be pointless. You need more apprenticeships and vocational courses in schools to help these kids get skills that are desperately needed in the UK. And, you need to stop this out of control immigration - so that these kids have jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> well according to that teacher whose article I put in earlier their are a regular 13 - 20% who barely learn to read.  If a kid does not get reading by 7 they usually never do - or at least that was what it used to be like.
> 
> I would not be in favour of anything resembling the old secondary modern's.  You simply cannot tell a person's potential at that young age but I would at least like to see no child getting to seven without learning to read and write (unless of course their is a genuine reason for it).  There really isn't any reason why these kids should not be able to achieve as well as anyone else.  The previous governments 'early start' was beginning to see results.  Unfortunately all these things have been dramatically cut. They need to know that they can aspire to just the same as anyone else and that can of course include apprentiships.
> 
> You also need to deal with social support as there does not seem to be that much going on in the family, so you need good, strong community workers.
> 
> What the heck, there is only one thing for it - increase taxes
Click to expand...


What they need is to spend money smarter, not spend more money. Actually, it is the British attitude of throwing more money at issues that has helped create this clusterfuck. If they had not spent decades handing people money without any requirement to 'earn' it, people would not have a 'benefits mentality'. There are areas of Britain where, generation after generation has never worked. That cannot be right and no country can survive when a huge proportion of it's citizenry are taking without giving. I pay taxes in the UK. I will not pay one more fucking penny until someone can prove they can spend it wisely.

The 'social scientists' who created this welfare monstrosity got it wrong. They know that. That's why, suddenly, you brought in 'welfare to work' instead of the old system. These people must work. It is better for them - and better for the country. 

I just hope that Cameron is better than the last bunch of incompetent idiots. Somebody needs to get a grip on this. 

I am, however, highly amused that your answer is 'raise taxes'.  Clueless.


----------



## High_Gravity

Tank said:


> Ravi thinks if England became 100% Muslim, nothing would change.
> 
> You know "people are people"



It would become a shit hole, sorry but thats what I think.


----------



## recklesslogic

*10. A husband has sex with his wife, as a plow goes into a dirt field.*

The Quran in Sura (Chapter) 2:223 says:

Your women are your fields, so go into your fields whichever way you like . . . . (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Quran, Oxford UP, 2004)

*9. Husbands are a degree above their wives.*

The Quran in Sura 2:228 says:

. . . Wives have the same rights as the husbands have on them in accordance with the generally known principles. Of course, men are a degree above them in status . . . (Sayyid Abul ALa Maududi, The Meaning of the Quran, vol. 1, p. 165)

*8. A male gets a double share of the inheritance over that of a female.*

The Quran in Sura 4:11 says:

The share of the male shall be twice that of a female . . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 311)

*7. A womans testimony counts half of a mans testimony.*

The Quran in Sura 2:282 says:

And let two men from among you bear witness to all such documents [contracts of loans without interest]. But if two men be not available, there should be one man and two women to bear witness so that if one of the women forgets (anything), the other may remind her. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 205)

*6. A wife may remarry her ex-husband if and only if she marries another man, they have sex, and then this second man divorces her.*

The Quran in Sura 2:230 says:

And if the husband divorces his wife (for the third time), she shall not remain his lawful wife after this (absolute) divorce, unless she marries another husband and the second husband divorces her. (In that case) there is no harm if they [the first couple] remarry . . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 165)

*5. Slave-girls are sexual property for their male owners.*

The Quran in Sura 4:24 says:

And forbidden to you are wedded wives of other people except those who have fallen in your hands (as prisoners of war) . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 319).

*4. A man may be polygamous with up to four wives.*

The Quran in Sura 4:3 says:

And if you be apprehensive that you will not be able to do justice to the orphans, you may marry two or three or four women whom you choose. But if you apprehend that you might not be able to do justice to them, then marry only one wife, or marry those who have fallen in your possession. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 305)

*3. A Muslim polygamist may simply get rid of one of his undesirable wives.*

The Quran in Sura 4:129 says:

It is not within your power to be perfectly equitable in your treatment with all your wives, even if you wish to be so; therefore, (in order to satisfy the dictates of Divine Law) do not lean towards one wife so as to leave the other in a state of suspense. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 381)

*2. Husbands may hit their wives even if the husbands merely fear highhandedness in their wives (quite apart from whether they actually are highhandedas if domestic violence in any form is acceptable).*

The Quran in Sura 4:34 says:

4:34 . . . If you fear highhandedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great.

*1. Mature men are allowed to marry prepubescent girls.*

The Quran in Sura 65:1, 4 says:

65:1 O Prophet, when you (and the believers) divorce women, divorce them for their prescribed waiting-period and count the waiting-period accurately . . . 4 And if you are in doubt about those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, (you should know that) their waiting period is three months, and the same applies to those who have not menstruated as yet. As for pregnant women, their period ends when they have delivered their burden. (Maududi, vol. 5, pp. 599 and 617, emphasis added)

Any takers???


----------



## alexa

California Girl said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am leaning towards some good old 'restorative justice' for many of these kids. Not the ringleaders, but the followers. Kids are quite easily led and tend not to consider the consequence of their actions. That does not mean we should excuse their behavior completely. I would suggest that they are made to go back into the communities they have devastated and clean up after themselves - of course, much of the 'clean up' has been done but they can help rebuild what they damaged.... and it would teach them practical skills as well as having them pay back their communities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was suggested on Question Time last night.  It could result in them also learning some skills which could be of benefit to them for getting a job.  Done properly it could be very positive.
> 
> 
> 
> Thing is a lot were not doing damage in their own community and they know that.  If they were damaging their own community there would be a case for that but I get the impression it is just going to happen regardless of what they have done and if they had been no problems to the community would seem silly. It is just going to move the problem on - according to Cameron to private housing.
> 
> I think it would be good if things were a bit more fluid than they seem to be.  For instance one 23 year old with no criminal record, on his way home with his girlfriend came upon a shop which had been looted and thought what the hell and took some water worth just over £3.  He has been given a 6 month prison sentence.  I think that is ridiculous.  Of course what he did was wrong, but he was not out looting, just a bad decision in a moment may cost him his adult life - or I guess that will go to appeal.
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am all for a total review of the education system too. Stop trying to ram all these kids into universities. Most of them are not capable of achieving a degree and it would be pointless. You need more apprenticeships and vocational courses in schools to help these kids get skills that are desperately needed in the UK. And, you need to stop this out of control immigration - so that these kids have jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> well according to that teacher whose article I put in earlier their are a regular 13 - 20% who barely learn to read.  If a kid does not get reading by 7 they usually never do - or at least that was what it used to be like.
> 
> I would not be in favour of anything resembling the old secondary modern's.  You simply cannot tell a person's potential at that young age but I would at least like to see no child getting to seven without learning to read and write (unless of course their is a genuine reason for it).  There really isn't any reason why these kids should not be able to achieve as well as anyone else.  The previous governments 'early start' was beginning to see results.  Unfortunately all these things have been dramatically cut. They need to know that they can aspire to just the same as anyone else and that can of course include apprentiships.
> 
> You also need to deal with social support as there does not seem to be that much going on in the family, so you need good, strong community workers.
> 
> What the heck, there is only one thing for it - increase taxes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What they need is to spend money smarter, not spend more money. Actually, it is the British attitude of throwing more money at issues that has helped create this clusterfuck. If they had not spent decades handing people money without any requirement to 'earn' it, people would not have a 'benefits mentality'.
Click to expand...


If they had provided full employment then this mentality would never have been created.



California Girl said:


> There are areas of Britain where, generation after generation has never worked. That cannot be right and no country can survive when a huge proportion of it's citizenry are taking without giving. I pay taxes in the UK. I will not pay one more fucking penny until someone can prove they can spend it wisely.



Since Thatcherism.  Since the concept of full employment was thrown out the window. Not before.




California Girl said:


> The 'social scientists' who created this welfare monstrosity got it wrong. They know that. That's why, suddenly, you brought in 'welfare to work' instead of the old system. These people must work. It is better for them - and better for the country.


  Well tell that to Sir Keith Joseph.  It was quite wrong imagining people could survive without work unable to go by the norms of society and and not become antisocial.

Regarding welfare to work.  I haven't studied it at great length but it doesn't look enormously different from other previous programs apart from it's intention to get people who are currently considered sick back working. May well end up as a lot of money down the drain.




California Girl said:


> I am, however, highly amused that your answer is 'raise taxes'.  Clueless.



If there isn't money to pay for needed services then taxes seem like the way to get them.  You are expecting to get the money from where - taking people who are sick off incapacity benefit perhaps and making them sign onto work even though they aren't capable.  You do know that Jobcentre's had to get special information how to deal with people at risk of suicide through this new process, don't you....but yes, got it, you will get the money by putting the sick on Jobseeker's allowance and reducing their benefit by about £40. The people who will pay for changes are the poorest and most vulnerable in society.  Yes, I have a clue, just different priorities to you.



> The internal document was sent to the Guardian by a senior jobcentre employee who has worked for the DWP for more than 20 years. It was accompanied by a letter from the source that said: "Absolutely nobody has ever seen this guidance before, leading staff to believe it has been put together ahead of the incapacity benefit and disability living allowance cuts."



Jobcentre staff 'sent guidelines on how to deal with claimants' suicide threats' | Society | The Guardian


----------



## Ravi

recklesslogic said:


> Ravi, I have been reading your exchanges with English Dave for some time now and to be fair.  He is coming across as someone that's stating facts and giving an honest opinion on his experience of the country he lives in.  You on the other hand are coming across as defensive and simply shouting 'Racist'  and 'Fascist' in order to somehow try and silence the argument into your favour.
> 
> This is the reason why nothing will ever change in the UK.  Because every time anyone expresses an opinion on the disastrous immigration policies of the UK and a welfare system that is being abused by people from every corner of the world, someone like you pops their head up and squeeks 'Racists'.
> 
> Why don't you try discussing things openly and intelligently with any knowledge and experience that you may have? Rather than trying to silence people with cheap and poorly judged insults.
> 
> There are people in this world going unheard who are stating the bleeding obvious on all manner of issues and are simply ignored by Governments or shouted down by the blind.  One day we may just look back and think of where it all started to go wrong and who we should have listened to in the beginning.
> 
> By then it might just be too late.



Whose sock puppet are you?


----------



## recklesslogic

Smooth Ravi,  I think you would find that with a tub of vaseline you would make a much better sock puppet than I would.

Is that the best you can do? All you did was prove my point...... _'Why don't you try discussing things openly and intelligently with any knowledge and experience that you may have? Rather than trying to silence people with cheap and poorly judged insults.'_


----------



## alexa

Tank said:


> Ravi thinks if England became 100% Muslim, nothing would change.
> 
> You know "people are people"



Where did Ravi talk about her belief that England would be 100% Muslim?  I can't find the post.

How did this thread even become about Muslims? What relevance do they have to the thread apart of course for the dreadful murders in Birmingham?


----------



## Ravi

recklesslogic said:


> Smooth Ravi,  I think you would find that with a tub of vaseline you would make a much better sock puppet than I would.
> 
> Is that the best you can do? All you did was prove my point...... _'Why don't you try discussing things openly and intelligently with any knowledge and experience that you may have? Rather than trying to silence people with cheap and poorly judged insults.'_


----------



## recklesslogic

alexa said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi thinks if England became 100% Muslim, nothing would change.
> 
> You know "people are people"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where did Ravi talk about her belief that England would be 100% Muslim?  I can't find the post.
> 
> How did this thread even become about Muslims? What relevance do they have to the thread apart of course for the dreadful murders in Birmingham?
Click to expand...


Thats fair enough Alexa, it is all too easy to get onto muslims.  We should get used to it though, watch this space for continued conflict and terrorism.


----------



## Ravi

David Cameron said Thursday he would seek advice from U.S. cities that have fought gangs, including Boston, Los Angeles and New York.   


British PM Seeks Gang Violence Solutions in US | Europe | English


----------



## alexa

recklesslogic said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi thinks if England became 100% Muslim, nothing would change.
> 
> You know "people are people"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where did Ravi talk about her belief that England would be 100% Muslim?  I can't find the post.
> 
> How did this thread even become about Muslims? What relevance do they have to the thread apart of course for the dreadful murders in Birmingham?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thats fair enough Alexa, it is all too easy to get onto muslims.  We should get used to it though, watch this space for continued conflict and terrorism.
Click to expand...


Your not Grant are you?


----------



## recklesslogic

alexa said:


> recklesslogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where did Ravi talk about her belief that England would be 100% Muslim?  I can't find the post.
> 
> How did this thread even become about Muslims? What relevance do they have to the thread apart of course for the dreadful murders in Birmingham?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats fair enough Alexa, it is all too easy to get onto muslims.  We should get used to it though, watch this space for continued conflict and terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your not Grant are you?
Click to expand...


grant??


----------



## alexa

> The riots on the streets of London, Bristol, Liverpool and Birmingham are just a precursor of what is to become a more and more regular occurrence as the make-up of our once-fair country begins increasingly to resemble that of the third world.
> 
> The riots in our cities are not a result of &#8216;youth disillusionment&#8217; or so-called &#8216;police racism&#8217;, as the traitorous mass media pretends &#8211; they are a direct result of the suicidal mass immigration policies of the LibLabCon party.



Don

I have heard it all before.


----------



## Intense

High_Gravity said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm quite enjoying the 'swift' justice that's being delivered in England. I find it very entertaining that the police are kicking in doors and arresting these little assholes.
> 
> Now we have some interesting dilemmas:
> 
> They can evict the families of some of these thugs... those that are in social housing and have signed 'behavior contracts'. But is that a good thing to do? Where do they go? Does it solve anything?
> 
> They can withdraw benefits from those who are claiming... but if they do that, surely, those people are going to turn to yet more crime - because they will have no money.
> 
> Tricky shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe a Guantenamo style prison camp?
Click to expand...


During the actual Riots, being contained in a secured Soccer Stadium or Airplane Hangers for the overflow would have served the need. Plastic hand-cuffs, bologna sandwiches. Something to tell stories about later.


----------



## Intense

Ravi said:


> David Cameron said Thursday he would seek advice from U.S. cities that have fought gangs, including Boston, Los Angeles and New York.
> 
> 
> British PM Seeks Gang Violence Solutions in US | Europe | English



That is smart.


----------



## Intense

editec said:


> Well this event certainly gave us the opprtunity to see how the question of RIGHT TO PRIVACY and the RIGHT TO BE SAFE can bring us to conflict does it not?
> 
> Englands people are the most scrutinized people in the world techically speaking.
> 
> Are they safer as a result?
> 
> I can't help but note here that some the people on this board who insist they hate the NANNY STATE and government's insinating themselves into their lifes, feel okay about this obvious SURVEILLANCE STATISM.
> 
> What this show us is that it is EASY to take a lotfy philosophical position that sounds like you love freedom more than everybody else.
> 
> But implementing that noble philosophy in the REAL WORLD?
> 
> Well then one might find oneself backing down a bit from that former position.
> 
> The difference between one's ideology and implementation of that ideology can be rather vast.



How many years now are you under surveillance when you shop or go out to play? Who are you kidding? Where are there not security cameras where money changes hands, be they private or Government? Surveillance in a Public Place is not Totalitarian. That is not to say that misuse can be. Stop being a Dick.


----------



## California Girl

alexa said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> That was suggested on Question Time last night.  It could result in them also learning some skills which could be of benefit to them for getting a job.  Done properly it could be very positive.
> 
> 
> 
> Thing is a lot were not doing damage in their own community and they know that.  If they were damaging their own community there would be a case for that but I get the impression it is just going to happen regardless of what they have done and if they had been no problems to the community would seem silly. It is just going to move the problem on - according to Cameron to private housing.
> 
> I think it would be good if things were a bit more fluid than they seem to be.  For instance one 23 year old with no criminal record, on his way home with his girlfriend came upon a shop which had been looted and thought what the hell and took some water worth just over £3.  He has been given a 6 month prison sentence.  I think that is ridiculous.  Of course what he did was wrong, but he was not out looting, just a bad decision in a moment may cost him his adult life - or I guess that will go to appeal.
> 
> 
> 
> well according to that teacher whose article I put in earlier their are a regular 13 - 20% who barely learn to read.  If a kid does not get reading by 7 they usually never do - or at least that was what it used to be like.
> 
> I would not be in favour of anything resembling the old secondary modern's.  You simply cannot tell a person's potential at that young age but I would at least like to see no child getting to seven without learning to read and write (unless of course their is a genuine reason for it).  There really isn't any reason why these kids should not be able to achieve as well as anyone else.  The previous governments 'early start' was beginning to see results.  Unfortunately all these things have been dramatically cut. They need to know that they can aspire to just the same as anyone else and that can of course include apprentiships.
> 
> You also need to deal with social support as there does not seem to be that much going on in the family, so you need good, strong community workers.
> 
> What the heck, there is only one thing for it - increase taxes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What they need is to spend money smarter, not spend more money. Actually, it is the British attitude of throwing more money at issues that has helped create this clusterfuck. If they had not spent decades handing people money without any requirement to 'earn' it, people would not have a 'benefits mentality'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If they had provided full employment then this mentality would never have been created.
> 
> 
> 
> Since Thatcherism.  Since the concept of full employment was thrown out the window. Not before.
> 
> 
> Well tell that to Sir Keith Joseph.  It was quite wrong imagining people could survive without work unable to go by the norms of society and and not become antisocial.
> 
> Regarding welfare to work.  I haven't studied it at great length but it doesn't look enormously different from other previous programs apart from it's intention to get people who are currently considered sick back working. May well end up as a lot of money down the drain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am, however, highly amused that your answer is 'raise taxes'.  Clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If there isn't money to pay for needed services then taxes seem like the way to get them.  You are expecting to get the money from where - taking people who are sick off incapacity benefit perhaps and making them sign onto work even though they aren't capable.  You do know that Jobcentre's had to get special information how to deal with people at risk of suicide through this new process, don't you....but yes, got it, you will get the money by putting the sick on Jobseeker's allowance and reducing their benefit by about £40. The people who will pay for changes are the poorest and most vulnerable in society.  Yes, I have a clue, just different priorities to you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The internal document was sent to the Guardian by a senior jobcentre employee who has worked for the DWP for more than 20 years. It was accompanied by a letter from the source that said: "Absolutely nobody has ever seen this guidance before, leading staff to believe it has been put together ahead of the incapacity benefit and disability living allowance cuts."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jobcentre staff 'sent guidelines on how to deal with claimants' suicide threats' | Society | The Guardian
Click to expand...


You show a lack of intellectual honesty blaming 'Thatcher' for this. Your system is a road to hell, paved with good intentions. Your NHS was a brilliant concept. No one should die of a treatable illness just because of poverty. What is it now? A clusterfuck of a system where people get gender reassignment, nose jobs, breast implants, etc while other people die because their NHS can't afford basic drugs for cancer treatment. How the fuck is that right? 

Your system broke because idiots like you (social scientists) said government should give people money for nothing. You said kids need to be taught their rights - but you forgot about teaching them about their responsibilities. You decided that single moms should be given every fucking assistance under the sun, without ever having to work for it. You decided they should get a free house - and everything to go in that house. So now we have teenage girls deliberately getting pregnant to get a house and free stuff. 

Then you say they shouldn't have to work till their kid is 5. So what do these girls do? Yep, when their kid is 4, they get pregnant again so they get another 5 year of free shit. You - social scientists and "do gooders" have done more damage to this country than anyone else. If anyone should be paying for it - it's you.


----------



## Mr.Nick

I'd just start shooting the rioting Marxist fucks.

You can bet your ass when a few grapes burst they will disperse rather quickly.

Oh yeah that's right, law abiding citizens of Briton are forbidden from owning guns.

Those socialist fools and anarchists are not "revolutionaries" like many who are rioting believe they are - they're fucking cowards.

A real revolutionary wouldn't destroy their own community and environment.

Try that shit here and those fucks who support those assholes philosophy would be hunted. They'd be hiding under rocks in a matter of seconds.


----------



## English Dave

Well, that was an interesting mixture of comments since my last entry. Maybe all hope is
not lost. I hope sincerely my country has people in it who can somehow sort this mess we
have got into. It has taken us many years to get here, and I guess many more years to save
this situation politicians have led us to. I have no axe to grind unlike silly girls like Ravi believe.
I worry for my children and grandchildren what the future of our country holds. Maybe there
is a way out of this somehow. We cannot allow the feral people to dominate us, the young
people may sadly have to fight to save this country one day - I hope not.


----------



## Tank

English Dave, it's all very simple. 

What ever group has the numbers is the group that decides what happens


----------



## California Girl

Tank said:


> English Dave, it's all very simple.
> 
> What ever group has the numbers is the group that decides what happens



Hopefully, we will eventually breed the stupid out... It would help if you didn't have any more kids. Thanks.


----------



## alexa

California Girl said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> English Dave, it's all very simple.
> 
> What ever group has the numbers is the group that decides what happens
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully, we will eventually breed the stupid out... It would help if you didn't have any more kids. Thanks.
Click to expand...


I know your American CG but your saying 'we'.  The only kind of people I have ever heard speaking in this way are far right. 

Looks like these people are going to need protection because for ever one that went on the rampage there are 100 similar at home.

Jeremy Paxman's great something parents were cap in hand all the time. No one stopped them having more kids.





> The gap between Britain's richest and poorest is wider than ever before, according to the Hills report. Photograph: Jeff J Mitchell/Getty Images
> 
> A detailed and startling analysis of how unequal Britain has become offers a snapshot of an increasingly divided nation where the richest 10% of the population are more than 100 times as wealthy as the poorest 10% of society.
> 
> Gordon Brown described the paper, published today, as "sobering", saying: "The report illustrates starkly that despite a levelling-off of inequality in the last decade we still have much further to go."
> 
> The report, An Anatomy of Economic Inequality in the UK, scrutinises the degree to which the country has become more unequal over the past 30 years. Much of it will make uncomfortable reading for the Labour government, although the paper indicates that considerable responsibility lies with the Tories, who presided over the dramatic divisions of the 1980s and early 1990s.



Unequal Britain: richest 10% are now 100 times better off than the poorest | Society | guardian.co.uk

Of course you are in no way the only person who has talked about somehow eliminating these people.  

I kinda want a society with a little humanity. Come to think of it, I might go on the loot if I thought people just thought of me as 'stupid' and wanted my grandchildren not to have kids.  I might no care for society either or I might like to get myself some of the cloths they wear so that they would not recognise me as 'stupid' when I passed them in the street.


----------



## English Dave

California Girl, thank you for your thoughtful comments throughout this debate, as an 
American living here in England you have a better understanding than people who have
never been to this country. I don't know if you have ever been to the northern towns of
which I live in one. They are Rochdale, Oldham, Bradford. Bolton. Blackburn, Burnley and
others. All these towns are in the process of being taken over by others than the original
residents. As Tank says it's all about the numbers. Sadly I think these towns will be lost to
the white English, and be bypassed on journeys in future times.  The next step will be a 
demand for some kind of independant state, hopefully in a future I will be no part of.  I hope
I am wrong, because such a future will probably end in a civil war. That is what the leaders
of this country must fear the most, and yet it is them, and the politicians of the past have
led us to. It did'nt have to be this way, but somehow we have been taken down this road.
I leave this little chat we've had now, and hope for the best.


----------



## California Girl

alexa said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> English Dave, it's all very simple.
> 
> What ever group has the numbers is the group that decides what happens
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully, we will eventually breed the stupid out... It would help if you didn't have any more kids. Thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know your American CG but your saying 'we'.  The only kind of people I have ever heard speaking in this way are far right.
> 
> Looks like these people are going to need protection because for ever one that went on the rampage there are 100 similar at home.
> 
> Jeremy Paxman's great something parents were cap in hand all the time. No one stopped them having more kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The gap between Britain's richest and poorest is wider than ever before, according to the Hills report. Photograph: Jeff J Mitchell/Getty Images
> 
> A detailed and startling analysis of how unequal Britain has become offers a snapshot of an increasingly divided nation where the richest 10% of the population are more than 100 times as wealthy as the poorest 10% of society.
> 
> Gordon Brown described the paper, published today, as "sobering", saying: "The report illustrates starkly that despite a levelling-off of inequality in the last decade we still have much further to go."
> 
> The report, An Anatomy of Economic Inequality in the UK, scrutinises the degree to which the country has become more unequal over the past 30 years. Much of it will make uncomfortable reading for the Labour government, although the paper indicates that considerable responsibility lies with the Tories, who presided over the dramatic divisions of the 1980s and early 1990s.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unequal Britain: richest 10% are now 100 times better off than the poorest | Society | guardian.co.uk
> 
> Of course you are in no way the only person who has talked about somehow eliminating these people.
> 
> I kinda want a society with a little humanity. Come to think of it, I might go on the loot if I thought people just thought of me as 'stupid' and wanted my grandchildren not to have kids.  I might no care for society either or I might like to get myself some of the cloths they wear so that they would not recognise me as 'stupid' when I passed them in the street.
Click to expand...


Oh, for heaven's sake, you humorless moron.... I referred to 'we' as the human race 'we', breeding the stupid out - stupid racists like Tank. 

Damn, you need to lighten up a tad.


----------



## California Girl

English Dave said:


> California Girl, thank you for your thoughtful comments throughout this debate, as an
> American living here in England you have a better understanding than people who have
> never been to this country. I don't know if you have ever been to the northern towns of
> which I live in one. They are Rochdale, Oldham, Bradford. Bolton. Blackburn, Burnley and
> others. All these towns are in the process of being taken over by others than the original
> residents. As Tank says it's all about the numbers. Sadly I think these towns will be lost to
> the white English, and be bypassed on journeys in future times.  The next step will be a
> demand for some kind of independant state, hopefully in a future I will be no part of.  I hope
> I am wrong, because such a future will probably end in a civil war. That is what the leaders
> of this country must fear the most, and yet it is them, and the politicians of the past have
> led us to. It did'nt have to be this way, but somehow we have been taken down this road.
> I leave this little chat we've had now, and hope for the best.



I have not had the pleasure of exploring the north as much as I would like. I have been to York, Manchester, Liverpool, and Leeds. I like northern people a lot. They are, generally, much more friendly than southerners. 

I have read quite a lot about problems in certain areas - where the indigenous people have been usurped by immigrants. I think that is a recipe for disaster - hence the rise in popularity of very far right groups such as the BNP. 

I honestly hope these riots will have a positive outcome in the longer run - they may force the Government to recognize that forcing 'multiculturalism' on people will not work. Britons should not be forced to hide their flag, or Christmas decorations or any other British tradition. Immigrants here need to accept the traditions of the country they choose to come to. For the most part, I honestly believe it is not the immigrants who are offended - it is the idiotic (mainly left wing) fools who use immigrants to try and force society to remove the parts of the culture that offend the left. The left tend to dislike 'nationalism', or religious displays.... so they use the 'it offends the minorities' as a justification. I have yet to meet an immigrant who feels threatened by your flag or British traditions. That is the root of the problem, to me.


----------



## Colin

California Girl said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully, we will eventually breed the stupid out... It would help if you didn't have any more kids. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know your American CG but your saying 'we'.  The only kind of people I have ever heard speaking in this way are far right.
> 
> Looks like these people are going to need protection because for ever one that went on the rampage there are 100 similar at home.
> 
> Jeremy Paxman's great something parents were cap in hand all the time. No one stopped them having more kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The gap between Britain's richest and poorest is wider than ever before, according to the Hills report. Photograph: Jeff J Mitchell/Getty Images
> 
> A detailed and startling analysis of how unequal Britain has become offers a snapshot of an increasingly divided nation where the richest 10% of the population are more than 100 times as wealthy as the poorest 10% of society.
> 
> Gordon Brown described the paper, published today, as "sobering", saying: "The report illustrates starkly that despite a levelling-off of inequality in the last decade we still have much further to go."
> 
> The report, An Anatomy of Economic Inequality in the UK, scrutinises the degree to which the country has become more unequal over the past 30 years. Much of it will make uncomfortable reading for the Labour government, although the paper indicates that considerable responsibility lies with the Tories, who presided over the dramatic divisions of the 1980s and early 1990s.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unequal Britain: richest 10% are now 100 times better off than the poorest | Society | guardian.co.uk
> 
> Of course you are in no way the only person who has talked about somehow eliminating these people.
> 
> I kinda want a society with a little humanity. Come to think of it, I might go on the loot if I thought people just thought of me as 'stupid' and wanted my grandchildren not to have kids.  I might no care for society either or I might like to get myself some of the cloths they wear so that they would not recognise me as 'stupid' when I passed them in the street.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, for heaven's sake, you humorless moron.... I referred to 'we' as the human race 'we', breeding the stupid out - stupid racists like Tank.
> 
> Damn, you need to lighten up a tad.
Click to expand...


Haven't you noticed, CG? She has a sly way of indirectly accusing those who won't agree with her of being extremists or wishing her harm. She even indirectly accused me of wishing harm on her, even though I never posted any such thing. It is, of course, a familiar technique often employed by the Labour party to demonize those who speak out against them. No surprise that she should employ the same tactics! It says a lot about her.


----------



## Intense

Colin said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know your American CG but your saying 'we'.  The only kind of people I have ever heard speaking in this way are far right.
> 
> Looks like these people are going to need protection because for ever one that went on the rampage there are 100 similar at home.
> 
> Jeremy Paxman's great something parents were cap in hand all the time. No one stopped them having more kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unequal Britain: richest 10% are now 100 times better off than the poorest | Society | guardian.co.uk
> 
> Of course you are in no way the only person who has talked about somehow eliminating these people.
> 
> I kinda want a society with a little humanity. Come to think of it, I might go on the loot if I thought people just thought of me as 'stupid' and wanted my grandchildren not to have kids.  I might no care for society either or I might like to get myself some of the cloths they wear so that they would not recognise me as 'stupid' when I passed them in the street.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, for heaven's sake, you humorless moron.... I referred to 'we' as the human race 'we', breeding the stupid out - stupid racists like Tank.
> 
> Damn, you need to lighten up a tad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Haven't you noticed, CG? She has a sly way of indirectly accusing those who won't agree with her of being extremists or wishing her harm. She even indirectly accused me of wishing harm on her, even though I never posted any such thing. It is, of course, a familiar technique often employed by the Labour party to demonize those who speak out against them. No surprise that she should employ the same tactics! It says a lot about her.
Click to expand...


Passive Aggressive.


----------



## alexa

California Girl said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully, we will eventually breed the stupid out... It would help if you didn't have any more kids. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know your American CG but your saying 'we'.  The only kind of people I have ever heard speaking in this way are far right.
> 
> Looks like these people are going to need protection because for ever one that went on the rampage there are 100 similar at home.
> 
> Jeremy Paxman's great something parents were cap in hand all the time. No one stopped them having more kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The gap between Britain's richest and poorest is wider than ever before, according to the Hills report. Photograph: Jeff J Mitchell/Getty Images
> 
> A detailed and startling analysis of how unequal Britain has become offers a snapshot of an increasingly divided nation where the richest 10% of the population are more than 100 times as wealthy as the poorest 10% of society.
> 
> Gordon Brown described the paper, published today, as "sobering", saying: "The report illustrates starkly that despite a levelling-off of inequality in the last decade we still have much further to go."
> 
> The report, An Anatomy of Economic Inequality in the UK, scrutinises the degree to which the country has become more unequal over the past 30 years. Much of it will make uncomfortable reading for the Labour government, although the paper indicates that considerable responsibility lies with the Tories, who presided over the dramatic divisions of the 1980s and early 1990s.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unequal Britain: richest 10% are now 100 times better off than the poorest | Society | guardian.co.uk
> 
> Of course you are in no way the only person who has talked about somehow eliminating these people.
> 
> I kinda want a society with a little humanity. Come to think of it, I might go on the loot if I thought people just thought of me as 'stupid' and wanted my grandchildren not to have kids.  I might no care for society either or I might like to get myself some of the cloths they wear so that they would not recognise me as 'stupid' when I passed them in the street.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, for heaven's sake, you humorless moron.... I referred to 'we' as the human race 'we', breeding the stupid out - stupid racists like Tank.
> 
> Damn, you need to lighten up a tad.
Click to expand...



I apologise.  If that was the case I got you quite wrong. I wrongly assumed that you were agreeing rather than being sarcastic.


----------



## alexa

California Girl said:


> English Dave said:
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl, thank you for your thoughtful comments throughout this debate, as an
> American living here in England you have a better understanding than people who have
> never been to this country. I don't know if you have ever been to the northern towns of
> which I live in one. They are Rochdale, Oldham, Bradford. Bolton. Blackburn, Burnley and
> others. All these towns are in the process of being taken over by others than the original
> residents. As Tank says it's all about the numbers. Sadly I think these towns will be lost to
> the white English, and be bypassed on journeys in future times.  The next step will be a
> demand for some kind of independant state, hopefully in a future I will be no part of.  I hope
> I am wrong, because such a future will probably end in a civil war. That is what the leaders
> of this country must fear the most, and yet it is them, and the politicians of the past have
> led us to. It did'nt have to be this way, but somehow we have been taken down this road.
> I leave this little chat we've had now, and hope for the best.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have not had the pleasure of exploring the north as much as I would like. I have been to York, Manchester, Liverpool, and Leeds. I like northern people a lot. They are, generally, much more friendly than southerners.
> 
> I have read quite a lot about problems in certain areas - where the indigenous people have been usurped by immigrants. I think that is a recipe for disaster - hence the rise in popularity of very far right groups such as the BNP.
Click to expand...


I lived for 10 years in Manchester.  There is a large Irish population, a large Muslim, population and a large Jewish population.  The BNP/EDL are not popular in Manchester. I remember seeing them sent packing when they tried to hold a meeting.  They may have a small following among the illiterate but there is 100 times more anti such racism. My guess is that BNP will have a hard time wherever the Irish are just as they do in Glasgow.

That being said the only person who said anything about immigration being anything to do with riots was in Manchester.  It sounded like a script he had learnt.  He cheerfully said they had to do it, it had to be said.  It was caused by the *Poles* taking their jobs. We still need to find out whether BNP/EDL were involved in stirring up people in the hope of getting racial disharmony.  This man's talk could imply that. He appeared to believe he was looting for a political reason, though in truth I think even he knew it was an excuse. But it was against Poles to him not Muslims

Luton however is a different situation.  The history comes from people from Pakistan moving there in the 60's indending on only working temp in the mills. They did not expect to stay and so did not bring their families, shared houses and kept themselves very much to themselves.  However after the 81 Nationality bill they decided to stay so wives and families came over, mills shut down and because they always had stayed together they still did.  Luton had segregated communities and in May 2001 riots emerged reminding me of the Black riots of '81.  Had there not been 9/11 which changed feeling among both Muslims and others leading to a massive rise in the BNP and eventually the EDL, I had expected us to deal with the situation similarly to how we had the Brixton and other London riots.

Luton then had become a totally divided town.  Muslim and the rest of the population living separately both in fear of each other. It became a regular haunt of the BNP and later the EDL wanting to stir up racial tension in an already tense spot.  Choudary tried to get a grip there but the Muslim population chased him and his followers out of town when the police would do nothing.

For the past year work has been going on which is beginning to change this simply by a linking through schools both primary and secondary.  It began with just sharing I think an afternoon together doing drama and so on and sharing a football team.  Already this has made a big difference as people have got to know each other and people interviewed on on the BBC documentary I saw who early in this program hated each other by the end had let go of all the usual stereotypes they had and were visiting the Muslim quarters for shopping for the first time in years.  Both communities seemed very prepared to put work in to get this working.  If I have it right this year they will be sharing schooling completely.

There are some other greater Manchester towns, Bromley being one which you hear of problems every now and then but it looks like work is now going on to sort out Luton and it looks like both communities once they get to know each other and their imaginations receive reality are quite capable of living in harmony with each other and giving to each other.

We shall see but good step forward.  However regarding these riots/looting.  These did not happen in Muslim areas and the only reason Muslims could have had anything to do with this would be BNP/EDL trying to cause racial conflict.



California Girl said:


> I honestly hope these riots will have a positive outcome in the longer run - they may force the Government to recognize that forcing 'multiculturalism' on people will not work. Britons should not be forced to hide their flag, or Christmas decorations or any other British tradition. Immigrants here need to accept the traditions of the country they choose to come to. For the most part, I honestly believe it is not the immigrants who are offended - it is the idiotic (mainly left wing) fools who use immigrants to try and force society to remove the parts of the culture that offend the left. The left tend to dislike 'nationalism', or religious displays.... so they use the 'it offends the minorities' as a justification. I have yet to meet an immigrant who feels threatened by your flag or British traditions. That is the root of the problem, to me.



Just partisan crap


----------



## alexa

Colin said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know your American CG but your saying 'we'.  The only kind of people I have ever heard speaking in this way are far right.
> 
> Looks like these people are going to need protection because for ever one that went on the rampage there are 100 similar at home.
> 
> Jeremy Paxman's great something parents were cap in hand all the time. No one stopped them having more kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unequal Britain: richest 10% are now 100 times better off than the poorest | Society | guardian.co.uk
> 
> Of course you are in no way the only person who has talked about somehow eliminating these people.
> 
> I kinda want a society with a little humanity. Come to think of it, I might go on the loot if I thought people just thought of me as 'stupid' and wanted my grandchildren not to have kids.  I might no care for society either or I might like to get myself some of the cloths they wear so that they would not recognise me as 'stupid' when I passed them in the street.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, for heaven's sake, you humorless moron.... I referred to 'we' as the human race 'we', breeding the stupid out - stupid racists like Tank.
> 
> Damn, you need to lighten up a tad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Haven't you noticed, CG? *She has a sly way of indirectly accusing those who won't agree with her of being extremists or wishing her harm. *She even indirectly accused me of wishing harm on her, even though I never posted any such thing. It is, of course, a familiar technique often employed by the Labour party to demonize those who speak out against them. No surprise that she should employ the same tactics! It says a lot about her.
Click to expand...


You suffer from projection.  You were out rightly rude to me.  I gave it back.  I am quite straight in communication.  Any slyness comes from yourself. Please provide link where I indirectly accused you of wishing me harm.  You raise your importance way above what it is.  Link then.

I know extremists when I see them.


----------



## alexa

Intense said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, for heaven's sake, you humorless moron.... I referred to 'we' as the human race 'we', breeding the stupid out - stupid racists like Tank.
> 
> Damn, you need to lighten up a tad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't you noticed, CG? She has a sly way of indirectly accusing those who won't agree with her of being extremists or wishing her harm. She even indirectly accused me of wishing harm on her, even though I never posted any such thing. It is, of course, a familiar technique often employed by the Labour party to demonize those who speak out against them. No surprise that she should employ the same tactics! It says a lot about her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Passive Aggressive.
Click to expand...


So what is this? Your passive aggression against me because I did not agree with your position.  You never answered that post so I can only imagine that is what it is.  I spent 20 years working as a counsellor, so do not think I do not recognise passive aggression or holding onto the coat tails of those you need when I see it.


----------



## California Girl

alexa said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know your American CG but your saying 'we'.  The only kind of people I have ever heard speaking in this way are far right.
> 
> Looks like these people are going to need protection because for ever one that went on the rampage there are 100 similar at home.
> 
> Jeremy Paxman's great something parents were cap in hand all the time. No one stopped them having more kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unequal Britain: richest 10% are now 100 times better off than the poorest | Society | guardian.co.uk
> 
> Of course you are in no way the only person who has talked about somehow eliminating these people.
> 
> I kinda want a society with a little humanity. Come to think of it, I might go on the loot if I thought people just thought of me as 'stupid' and wanted my grandchildren not to have kids.  I might no care for society either or I might like to get myself some of the cloths they wear so that they would not recognise me as 'stupid' when I passed them in the street.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, for heaven's sake, you humorless moron.... I referred to 'we' as the human race 'we', breeding the stupid out - stupid racists like Tank.
> 
> Damn, you need to lighten up a tad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I apologise.  If that was the case I got you quite wrong. I wrongly assumed that you were agreeing rather than being sarcastic.
Click to expand...


I rarely agree with hate filled racists. Or hate filled right wingers. Or hate filled left wingers. That's just the way I am. 

Your posts make you sound like a pompous twit, did you know that?


----------



## California Girl

alexa said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't you noticed, CG? She has a sly way of indirectly accusing those who won't agree with her of being extremists or wishing her harm. She even indirectly accused me of wishing harm on her, even though I never posted any such thing. It is, of course, a familiar technique often employed by the Labour party to demonize those who speak out against them. No surprise that she should employ the same tactics! It says a lot about her.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Passive Aggressive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what is this? Your passive aggression against me because I did not agree with your position.  You never answered that post so I can only imagine that is what it is.  I spent 20 years working as a counsellor, so do not think I do not recognise passive aggression or holding onto the coat tails of those you need when I see it.
Click to expand...


So, social scientist and counsellor. Britain should thank you for the crucial role you played in creating this clusterfuck.


----------



## Ravi

California Girl said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, for heaven's sake, you humorless moron.... I referred to 'we' as the human race 'we', breeding the stupid out - stupid racists like Tank.
> 
> Damn, you need to lighten up a tad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I apologise.  If that was the case I got you quite wrong. I wrongly assumed that you were agreeing rather than being sarcastic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I rarely agree with hate filled racists. Or hate filled right wingers. Or hate filled left wingers. That's just the way I am.
> 
> Your posts make you sound like a pompous twit, did you know that?
Click to expand...

Irony.


----------



## Colin

alexa said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't you noticed, CG? She has a sly way of indirectly accusing those who won't agree with her of being extremists or wishing her harm. She even indirectly accused me of wishing harm on her, even though I never posted any such thing. It is, of course, a familiar technique often employed by the Labour party to demonize those who speak out against them. No surprise that she should employ the same tactics! It says a lot about her.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Passive Aggressive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what is this? Your passive aggression against me because I did not agree with your position.  You never answered that post so I can only imagine that is what it is.  I spent 20 years working as a counsellor, so do not think I do not recognise passive aggression or holding onto the coat tails of those you need when I see it.
Click to expand...


Not at all. The fact is you have been labelling people on the basis of what YOU think. Not what they say. Have you already forgotten what you said to me in a response...that you hoped I didn't wish your head split open. Why did you say that? To me it's obvious. As for you being a counsellor, so what. Does that make you the expert? You come across as quite an arrogant individual.


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I apologise.  If that was the case I got you quite wrong. I wrongly assumed that you were agreeing rather than being sarcastic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rarely agree with hate filled racists. Or hate filled right wingers. Or hate filled left wingers. That's just the way I am.
> 
> Your posts make you sound like a pompous twit, did you know that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Irony.
Click to expand...


----------



## hipeter924

The reason it happened was the same reason as other riots; anger, lack of jobs, as well as too much alcohol and time on their hands. As much as I really don't want to live in the UK, I don't see it as a reason to believe that British society is broken down or it is near civil war. Things will calm down, and the prison cells will be a bit full for a while.


----------



## Intense

alexa said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't you noticed, CG? She has a sly way of indirectly accusing those who won't agree with her of being extremists or wishing her harm. She even indirectly accused me of wishing harm on her, even though I never posted any such thing. It is, of course, a familiar technique often employed by the Labour party to demonize those who speak out against them. No surprise that she should employ the same tactics! It says a lot about her.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Passive Aggressive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what is this? Your passive aggression against me because I did not agree with your position.  You never answered that post so I can only imagine that is what it is.  I spent 20 years working as a counsellor, so do not think I do not recognise passive aggression or holding onto the coat tails of those you need when I see it.
Click to expand...


Alexa, It's like watching you bail water out of a sinking ship with a sieve. It's too painful to watch and I don't want to encourage you. Encouraging you is like hurting Society, because of the misapplied reasoning, put into action, like a bad recipe. 
Sometimes silence is Golden, yet you misinterpret my intention. I adamantly disagree with your Ideology, I find it obstructive to the Establishment of Justice, which is the Root of Any Civilized Society. I've given you my positions, made them clear, yet you still go off on tangents. How about rather than going off the reservation, you ask a question to clarify?
  I respect the fact that we each are entitled to our own positions Alexa. The only thing I would ask of you and everyone else, is to put conscience first, refine and develop your perspective, learning from those around you.  If I want to hear anything from you, it is the best you have to offer. I have no expectation of converting you in any way, not when it compromises Principle. Along with the consideration of Principles, is relevance, in relation to circumstance, each has it's due weight and priority. Maybe it is human nature to get so caught up in our own causes that we neglect other parts of the picture, huh. There is much to learn about what went down here from all sides for those open enough to receive.


----------



## Intense

hipeter924 said:


> The reason it happened was the same reason as other riots; anger, lack of jobs, as well as too much alcohol and time on their hands. As much as I really don't want to live in the UK, I don't see it as a reason to believe that British society is broken down or it is near civil war. Things will calm down, and the prison cells will be a bit full for a while.



I don't see it that way at all.


----------



## recklesslogic

Alexa, what in God&#8217;s name are you on about? Your views are so left wing it&#8217;s scary. The views expressed by English Dave and California Girl are as close as you see on here to the genuine feelings of the British public. I can only presume you live in an area where you are untouched by the issues described.  You mentioned you have lived in Manchester, so you will have seen your share of issues, but these issues are quite often very different than the ones you will find in the majority of North West towns.

Allow me to enlighten you on the views of the many on immigration.  I live and work in Rochdale and spend a great deal of my time dealing with the public.  There is an underlying anger with many &#8216;ordinary&#8217; tax payers that most choose to keep to themselves or only discuss when they feel they are in a safe enough environment to do so, without being labelled racists and bigots.

I get the impression from people that they do not get angry about where people are from or how they got here.  They get angry about the way that people are.  I&#8217;ll give you some examples.

I met a young man who was told by a recruitment company that they were struggling to find him a job in a factory or similar environment because due to the Eastern European influx many of these jobs were taken already.  When he asked why he couldn&#8217;t apply as people left the company he was told that the company tends to take on the friends and relatives of the people they already have working for them as recommendations.  In other words, when the Polish worker leaves the company he recommends a friend of his that has just arrived who would be suitable for the job, the company doesn&#8217;t have to pay a recruitment consultant or advertise the role so they are all happy.  Except for the fella that can&#8217;t get an interview or a job because the jobs are being taken by people who 10 years ago wouldn&#8217;t have been around to do the work.

What also angers people is the Pakistanis who absolutely refuse to integrate with British society. Their lives revolve around their own community.  The shops, the community centre, the mosque etc.  They have no interest in spending money outside their community unless they absolutely have to.  They commit  tax evasion by declaring little of what they take as taxi drivers and takeaway owners.  Another regular crime is fraud. I recently met a woman that had bumped into the back of a car containing four Asians in asda car park causing no damage to their vehicle and a small crack on the  number plate of her own.

The Asians employed a solicitor and a doctor who were both &#8216;part of the community&#8217; and a claim was made and successful for whiplash injuries and trauma totalling £12500.  This is an example of what I hear time and time again.  Dodgy claims, staged accidents etc.  And wherever there is a large asian population in the UK, there is a high level of car insurance fraud and accident claims. 

In my line of work I also see a lot of bank fraud with 9 out of 10 examples coming from the Asian community.

Another issue is drug dealing.  Rochdale, Oldham, Bolton, Bradford etc are full of young Asians driving 45k cars.  Blacked out windows and nothing to do but cruise around all day while the idiotic tax payer is at work.  There have also been recent convictions in relation to Asian sex gangs using teenage white girls as sex slaves while filling them with drink and drugs.

They see us as scum that is there to make money off, to manipulate and to abuse. They take take take and give nothing. 

Yes, you could say that all the issues I have described are a problem throughout the whole of our society.  And yes they are, but that&#8217;s not my point.  The issue here is about minority and majority.  The majority of White British are law abiding, taxpaying Nine to fivers.  Propping up this slowly crumbling pantomime that we call a democracy.  If they didn&#8217;t it would have imploded a long time ago.  On the other hand the majority of Pakistanis that I meet are not in paid employment.  They are self employed, or on benefits, or make their living &#8216;through independent means.'

To reflect this feeling and anger in the UK a grand total of £71 million was raised for the Pakistani Floods appeal in 2010 much of it coming from the Muslim population.  The attitude of many many people that I met was simple.  Let the Asians donate.  They take enough and you could guarantee that if the floods were here outside an Asian area, they would give nothing.  In comparison, in case you&#8217;re wondering, £106 million was donated over the same period following the earthquake in Haiti. 
You don&#8217;t have to take my opinion on this Alexa.....Come and visit sunny Rochdale, take a look around the town centre at 2pm and have a drive round the surrounding areas.  Wonder for a moment where all the expensive cars come from, ask yourself why people would be angry.
Alexa if you honestly think that integration is about getting a few school kids to play football together you want your head feeling.  Oldham (breeze hill school and count hill school) has just started a social experiment by putting kids educations on the line.  Watch this space for the guaranteed failure and backtrack within 5 years.

As a final paragraph I have a few questions for you based on your comments. Firstly, when since did the Irish become part of an immigration problem, they are their own issues to deal with, or haven&#8217;t you heard?
And secondly, you seem to like taking about the BNP and the EDL in the same sentence.  I am a supporter of neither as a political movement but I do feel that they have at least a right to be heard and to have some of the things they say considered on some level.  Our political parties need to wake up and realise that if they don&#8217;t listen to them they will lose voters to them.   Labour, the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats need to decide whether they want to introduce policies that address the feelings of many Brits or just continue to bury their head in the sand and allow desperate voters to move much further right than they ordinarily would in order to find something that answers their concerns, however extreme that is.  It&#8217;s also worth noting that the BNP and the EDL are very different entities.  The BNP has a history of racism, with a track record of Skinhead activity etc.  The EDL on the other hand do not.  And if you look closely enough you might see that many (not all) of their members are just ordinary people trying to save their country from racial chaos.


----------



## alexa

recklesslogic said:


> Alexa, what in God&#8217;s name are you on about? Your views are so left wing it&#8217;s scary.



Scary because I don't believe in Eugeniucs 



recklesslogic said:


> The views expressed by English Dave l are as close as you see on here to the genuine feelings of the British public.



The are standard BNP views and you know it.  CG I don't know but she is probably more influenced by the US.

I attend another forum with British posters.  While we have different views on things, the only ones who who come up with this crap were one BNP supporter now gone and Americans and the americans came to be shown as being a part of what has now been identified as a global movement of anti islam extremism. Something which the EDL themselves part of the network of.





recklesslogic said:


> I can only presume you live in an area where you are untouched by the issues described.



see my location.




recklesslogic said:


> You mentioned you have lived in Manchester, so you will have seen your share of issues, but these issues are quite often very different than the ones you will find in the majority of North West towns.



and you failed to see me address that re Luton and also to say the reasons and work that is going on.



recklesslogic said:


> Allow me to enlighten you on the views of the many on immigration.  I live and work in Rochdale and spend a great deal of my time dealing with the public.  There is an underlying anger with many &#8216;ordinary&#8217; tax payers that most choose to keep to themselves or only discuss when they feel they are in a safe enough environment to do so, without being labelled racists and bigots.



Well I have not used the word racist and bigots so that one comes from your own thinking.  I have however seen a documentary  of somewhere where a lot of white immigrants looking for work were being treated extremely badly by the local population.

Having a difficulty with immigration is completely different issues to the riots.  To try to pretend these riots are about immigration is simply to try to change the issue of the riots and exploit the riots for your own political agenda. If you want to discuss immigration then I suggest you start you own thread.



recklesslogic said:


> I get the impression from people that they do not get angry about where people are from or how they got here.  They get angry about the way that people are.  I&#8217;ll give you some examples.
> 
> I met a young man who was told by a recruitment company that they were struggling to find him a job in a factory or similar environment because due to the Eastern European influx many of these jobs were taken already.  When he asked why he couldn&#8217;t apply as people left the company he was told that the company tends to take on the friends and relatives of the people they already have working for them as recommendations.  In other words, when the Polish worker leaves the company he recommends a friend of his that has just arrived who would be suitable for the job, the company doesn&#8217;t have to pay a recruitment consultant or advertise the role so they are all happy.  Except for the fella that can&#8217;t get an interview or a job because the jobs are being taken by people who 10 years ago wouldn&#8217;t have been around to do the work.



If you have a problem concerning this it is of no relevance to this thread. People do blame Poles most.  They are the new immigrants.  They do good work.  Their was a documentary a couple of years ago on some of the work they were doing.  Picking cabbages or something and packing potatoes.  They got £8 an hour for picking the cabbages.  The owner said he was well willing to give the job to locals.  The reporter went down to outside the Jobcentre and offered the job but there was no way they were going to do it.  Not one took them up. Two people agreed to try out the potato packing factory.  They were very aggrieved to be under the supervision of Poles and extremely upset at the level of work expected of them.  One only lasted a day or two.  The other however adjusted and ended up with a full time job.  Poles work, get used to it.

Other companies have said the same.  They are good workers, work hard, do the job and go home.  There is zero reason to have a go at Poles when local people without jobs have been unwilling to get off their arse and do the work.




recklesslogic said:


> What also angers people is the Pakistanis who absolutely refuse to integrate with British society. Their lives revolve around their own community.  The shops, the community centre, the mosque etc.  They have no interest in spending money outside their community unless they absolutely have to.  They commit  tax evasion by declaring little of what they take as taxi drivers and takeaway owners.  Another regular crime is fraud. I recently met a woman that had bumped into the back of a car containing four Asians in asda car park causing no damage to their vehicle and a small crack on the  number plate of her own.
> 
> The Asians employed a solicitor and a doctor who were both &#8216;part of the community&#8217; and a claim was made and successful for whiplash injuries and trauma totalling £12500.  This is an example of what I hear time and time again.  Dodgy claims, staged accidents etc.  And wherever there is a large asian population in the UK, there is a high level of car insurance fraud and accident claims.
> 
> In my line of work I also see a lot of bank fraud with 9 out of 10 examples coming from the Asian community.
> 
> Another issue is drug dealing.  Rochdale, Oldham, Bolton, Bradford etc are full of young Asians driving 45k cars.  Blacked out windows and nothing to do but cruise around all day while the idiotic tax payer is at work.  There have also been recent convictions in relation to Asian sex gangs using teenage white girls as sex slaves while filling them with drink and drugs.
> 
> They see us as scum that is there to make money off, to manipulate and to abuse. They take take take and give nothing.
> 
> Yes, you could say that all the issues I have described are a problem throughout the whole of our society.



They are not a problem in my society and we have found that through shared schooling there is virtually no prejudice among school leavers whether white or Muslim.  The biggest problem Muslims have in integrating in Scotland is the extent to which people drink.

All this has zero to do with the thread and only something to do with your desire to pretend that the looting was caused by immigration or Muslims which it was not.

There are reasons and problems which gave rise to looting but the have nothing to do with immigration which clearly is your mantra.  





recklesslogic said:


> And yes they are, but that&#8217;s not my point.  The issue here is about minority and majority.  The majority of White British are law abiding, taxpaying Nine to fivers.  Propping up this slowly crumbling pantomime that we call a democracy.  If they didn&#8217;t it would have imploded a long time ago.  On the other hand the majority of Pakistanis that I meet are not in paid employment.  They are self employed, or on benefits, or make their living &#8216;through independent means.'



Were the majority of Pakistani looters?  No they were not.  If you want to start a thread on unemployment start one.

All you are doing is trying to deflect a problem in England, the riots and looting and blame minorities and new immigrants.  You yourself will have been blaming them for the problem what ever it is.  That appears to be your way. To pretend it in any way characterises the temperament of British people is a wish which will never come true.  Most of us got an education. The blaming of the immigrants, first Jews, the blacks, now Muslims and Poles,  is centuries all. Hey, where are the Roma, you have forgotten them.

Now I have read as much of your hate promotion as I am prepared to do.  I have at the moment staying with me a friend from Essex.  We were discussing the issue last night.  It may surprise you to hear she does not share your thoughts at all but does believe that there are a great number of disaffected youth who at the moment she gets in her FE classes to teach while they receive there £30 pw EMA.  She says they arrive like you just would not want them in your class and she teaches them and credits them whenever she sees some achievement and she says that little by little several of these in each year will start to see that they can achieve and understand the work and that there are several who do make it through, gain confidence and get themselves into employment.

She sees her work as helpful first in keeping these disaffected kids off the street and second in that in actually reaches some who had been lost to the system and rehabilitates them and gets them back to lead a proper life.  With the ending of the EMA she guesses they will stop coming, will be on the street, in trouble, and we may see more social unrest.

The fact that you wish to speak about issues which are unrelated to the looting illustrates that you wish to deflect from the looting and blame it on people who are not to blame while indeed there are real issues which have caused it and you have wanted to do that to use that as an opportunity to have a go at people not involved.  There is a possibility to create new threads to bring up your issues.  They are not to do with this thread.  Others are.

On a final note if England becomes the fascist state which some people on this site seem to want, I am very glad that I have a way out in simply voting Scottish Independence.  We have some good plans afoot for economic success working with Norway 

Could a depression bring fascism to Britain? &#8211; Telegraph Blogs

(I am not sure when I will get on again as extremely busy, maybe not for a few days.)


----------



## California Girl

Colin said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know your American CG but your saying 'we'.  The only kind of people I have ever heard speaking in this way are far right.
> 
> Looks like these people are going to need protection because for ever one that went on the rampage there are 100 similar at home.
> 
> Jeremy Paxman's great something parents were cap in hand all the time. No one stopped them having more kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unequal Britain: richest 10% are now 100 times better off than the poorest | Society | guardian.co.uk
> 
> Of course you are in no way the only person who has talked about somehow eliminating these people.
> 
> I kinda want a society with a little humanity. Come to think of it, I might go on the loot if I thought people just thought of me as 'stupid' and wanted my grandchildren not to have kids.  I might no care for society either or I might like to get myself some of the cloths they wear so that they would not recognise me as 'stupid' when I passed them in the street.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, for heaven's sake, you humorless moron.... I referred to 'we' as the human race 'we', breeding the stupid out - stupid racists like Tank.
> 
> Damn, you need to lighten up a tad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Haven't you noticed, CG? She has a sly way of indirectly accusing those who won't agree with her of being extremists or wishing her harm. She even indirectly accused me of wishing harm on her, even though I never posted any such thing. It is, of course, a familiar technique often employed by the Labour party to demonize those who speak out against them. No surprise that she should employ the same tactics! It says a lot about her.
Click to expand...


It is the left wing's new mantra 'extremists', 'hatefilled' 'violent', blah, blah, blah. What I find funny is that they think it's ok to label people as 'extremists' for not agreeing with a system that, as we witnessed last week, is not fucking working. 

It's a lazy tactic, used by those who have no legitimate argument - cuz they know they are wrong.


----------



## California Girl

alexa said:


> recklesslogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Alexa, what in Gods name are you on about? Your views are so left wing its scary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scary because I don't believe in Eugeniucs
> 
> 
> 
> recklesslogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The views expressed by English Dave l are as close as you see on here to the genuine feelings of the British public.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The are standard BNP views and you know it.  CG I don't know but she is probably more influenced by the US.
> 
> I attend another forum with British posters.  While we have different views on things, the only ones who who come up with this crap were one BNP supporter now gone and Americans and the americans came to be shown as being a part of what has now been identified as a global movement of anti islam extremism. Something which the EDL themselves part of the network of.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> see my location.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and you failed to see me address that re Luton and also to say the reasons and work that is going on.
> 
> 
> 
> Well I have not used the word racist and bigots so that one comes from your own thinking.  I have however seen a documentary  of somewhere where a lot of white immigrants looking for work were being treated extremely badly by the local population.
> 
> Having a difficulty with immigration is completely different issues to the riots.  To try to pretend these riots are about immigration is simply to try to change the issue of the riots and exploit the riots for your own political agenda. If you want to discuss immigration then I suggest you start you own thread.
> 
> 
> 
> If you have a problem concerning this it is of no relevance to this thread. People do blame Poles most.  They are the new immigrants.  They do good work.  Their was a documentary a couple of years ago on some of the work they were doing.  Picking cabbages or something and packing potatoes.  They got £8 an hour for picking the cabbages.  The owner said he was well willing to give the job to locals.  The reporter went down to outside the Jobcentre and offered the job but there was no way they were going to do it.  Not one took them up. Two people agreed to try out the potato packing factory.  They were very aggrieved to be under the supervision of Poles and extremely upset at the level of work expected of them.  One only lasted a day or two.  The other however adjusted and ended up with a full time job.  Poles work, get used to it.
> 
> Other companies have said the same.  They are good workers, work hard, do the job and go home.  There is zero reason to have a go at Poles when local people without jobs have been unwilling to get off their arse and do the work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> recklesslogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> What also angers people is the Pakistanis who absolutely refuse to integrate with British society. Their lives revolve around their own community.  The shops, the community centre, the mosque etc.  They have no interest in spending money outside their community unless they absolutely have to.  They commit  tax evasion by declaring little of what they take as taxi drivers and takeaway owners.  Another regular crime is fraud. I recently met a woman that had bumped into the back of a car containing four Asians in asda car park causing no damage to their vehicle and a small crack on the  number plate of her own.
> 
> The Asians employed a solicitor and a doctor who were both part of the community and a claim was made and successful for whiplash injuries and trauma totalling £12500.  This is an example of what I hear time and time again.  Dodgy claims, staged accidents etc.  And wherever there is a large asian population in the UK, there is a high level of car insurance fraud and accident claims.
> 
> In my line of work I also see a lot of bank fraud with 9 out of 10 examples coming from the Asian community.
> 
> Another issue is drug dealing.  Rochdale, Oldham, Bolton, Bradford etc are full of young Asians driving 45k cars.  Blacked out windows and nothing to do but cruise around all day while the idiotic tax payer is at work.  There have also been recent convictions in relation to Asian sex gangs using teenage white girls as sex slaves while filling them with drink and drugs.
> 
> They see us as scum that is there to make money off, to manipulate and to abuse. They take take take and give nothing.
> 
> Yes, you could say that all the issues I have described are a problem throughout the whole of our society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are not a problem in my society and we have found that through shared schooling there is virtually no prejudice among school leavers whether white or Muslim.  The biggest problem Muslims have in integrating in Scotland is the extent to which people drink.
> 
> All this has zero to do with the thread and only something to do with your desire to pretend that the looting was caused by immigration or Muslims which it was not.
> 
> There are reasons and problems which gave rise to looting but the have nothing to do with immigration which clearly is your mantra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> recklesslogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yes they are, but thats not my point.  The issue here is about minority and majority.  The majority of White British are law abiding, taxpaying Nine to fivers.  Propping up this slowly crumbling pantomime that we call a democracy.  If they didnt it would have imploded a long time ago.  On the other hand the majority of Pakistanis that I meet are not in paid employment.  They are self employed, or on benefits, or make their living through independent means.'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Were the majority of Pakistani looters?  No they were not.  If you want to start a thread on unemployment start one.
> 
> All you are doing is trying to deflect a problem in England, the riots and looting and blame minorities and new immigrants.  You yourself will have been blaming them for the problem what ever it is.  That appears to be your way. To pretend it in any way characterises the temperament of British people is a wish which will never come true.  Most of us got an education. The blaming of the immigrants, first Jews, the blacks, now Muslims and Poles,  is centuries all. Hey, where are the Roma, you have forgotten them.
> 
> Now I have read as much of your hate promotion as I am prepared to do.  I have at the moment staying with me a friend from Essex.  We were discussing the issue last night.  It may surprise you to hear she does not share your thoughts at all but does believe that there are a great number of disaffected youth who at the moment she gets in her FE classes to teach while they receive there £30 pw EMA.  She says they arrive like you just would not want them in your class and she teaches them and credits them whenever she sees some achievement and she says that little by little several of these in each year will start to see that they can achieve and understand the work and that there are several who do make it through, gain confidence and get themselves into employment.
> 
> She sees her work as helpful first in keeping these disaffected kids off the street and second in that in actually reaches some who had been lost to the system and rehabilitates them and gets them back to lead a proper life.  With the ending of the EMA she guesses they will stop coming, will be on the street, in trouble, and we may see more social unrest.
> 
> The fact that you wish to speak about issues which are unrelated to the looting illustrates that you wish to deflect from the looting and blame it on people who are not to blame while indeed there are real issues which have caused it and you have wanted to do that to use that as an opportunity to have a go at people not involved.  There is a possibility to create new threads to bring up your issues.  They are not to do with this thread.  Others are.
> 
> On a final note if England becomes the fascist state which some people on this site seem to want, I am very glad that I have a way out in simply voting Scottish Independence.  We have some good plans afoot for economic success working with Norway
> 
> Could a depression bring fascism to Britain?  Telegraph Blogs
> 
> (I am not sure when I will get on again as extremely busy, maybe not for a few days.)
Click to expand...


With the "extremism" of the left, it is no surprise that the backlash against that is the rise of parties like the BNP and EDL. How the hell the left cannot understand that they are responsible for driving people into these parties is beyond my comprehension. 

These people, the ones joining the BNP and EDL, are not racists, they are not 'extremists', they are not violent. They are ordinary people who see the damage people like you have done to their way of life and they resent it. So they join parties that they believe will fight for them. How can you not see that? Britain is inundated with foreigners, taking British jobs, taking British welfare, and destroying British culture and traditions.... it is not their fault. It is yours. You are the ones who tell communities "don't display Christmas decorations or the union jack, it might offend the minorities". It does not offend minorities, it offends you. 

This shit - like last week - this is on your head. You and the moronic left who cannot understand that when you force people to sacrifice their own way of life, this is the result. These kids have no future... and it is you who took it from them.


----------



## L.K.Eder

California Girl said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> recklesslogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Alexa, what in Gods name are you on about? Your views are so left wing its scary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scary because I don't believe in Eugeniucs
> 
> 
> 
> The are standard BNP views and you know it.  CG I don't know but she is probably more influenced by the US.
> 
> I attend another forum with British posters.  While we have different views on things, the only ones who who come up with this crap were one BNP supporter now gone and Americans and the americans came to be shown as being a part of what has now been identified as a global movement of anti islam extremism. Something which the EDL themselves part of the network of.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> see my location.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and you failed to see me address that re Luton and also to say the reasons and work that is going on.
> 
> 
> 
> Well I have not used the word racist and bigots so that one comes from your own thinking.  I have however seen a documentary  of somewhere where a lot of white immigrants looking for work were being treated extremely badly by the local population.
> 
> Having a difficulty with immigration is completely different issues to the riots.  To try to pretend these riots are about immigration is simply to try to change the issue of the riots and exploit the riots for your own political agenda. If you want to discuss immigration then I suggest you start you own thread.
> 
> 
> 
> If you have a problem concerning this it is of no relevance to this thread. People do blame Poles most.  They are the new immigrants.  They do good work.  Their was a documentary a couple of years ago on some of the work they were doing.  Picking cabbages or something and packing potatoes.  They got £8 an hour for picking the cabbages.  The owner said he was well willing to give the job to locals.  The reporter went down to outside the Jobcentre and offered the job but there was no way they were going to do it.  Not one took them up. Two people agreed to try out the potato packing factory.  They were very aggrieved to be under the supervision of Poles and extremely upset at the level of work expected of them.  One only lasted a day or two.  The other however adjusted and ended up with a full time job.  Poles work, get used to it.
> 
> Other companies have said the same.  They are good workers, work hard, do the job and go home.  There is zero reason to have a go at Poles when local people without jobs have been unwilling to get off their arse and do the work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are not a problem in my society and we have found that through shared schooling there is virtually no prejudice among school leavers whether white or Muslim.  The biggest problem Muslims have in integrating in Scotland is the extent to which people drink.
> 
> All this has zero to do with the thread and only something to do with your desire to pretend that the looting was caused by immigration or Muslims which it was not.
> 
> There are reasons and problems which gave rise to looting but the have nothing to do with immigration which clearly is your mantra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> recklesslogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yes they are, but thats not my point.  The issue here is about minority and majority.  The majority of White British are law abiding, taxpaying Nine to fivers.  Propping up this slowly crumbling pantomime that we call a democracy.  If they didnt it would have imploded a long time ago.  On the other hand the majority of Pakistanis that I meet are not in paid employment.  They are self employed, or on benefits, or make their living through independent means.'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Were the majority of Pakistani looters?  No they were not.  If you want to start a thread on unemployment start one.
> 
> All you are doing is trying to deflect a problem in England, the riots and looting and blame minorities and new immigrants.  You yourself will have been blaming them for the problem what ever it is.  That appears to be your way. To pretend it in any way characterises the temperament of British people is a wish which will never come true.  Most of us got an education. The blaming of the immigrants, first Jews, the blacks, now Muslims and Poles,  is centuries all. Hey, where are the Roma, you have forgotten them.
> 
> Now I have read as much of your hate promotion as I am prepared to do.  I have at the moment staying with me a friend from Essex.  We were discussing the issue last night.  It may surprise you to hear she does not share your thoughts at all but does believe that there are a great number of disaffected youth who at the moment she gets in her FE classes to teach while they receive there £30 pw EMA.  She says they arrive like you just would not want them in your class and she teaches them and credits them whenever she sees some achievement and she says that little by little several of these in each year will start to see that they can achieve and understand the work and that there are several who do make it through, gain confidence and get themselves into employment.
> 
> She sees her work as helpful first in keeping these disaffected kids off the street and second in that in actually reaches some who had been lost to the system and rehabilitates them and gets them back to lead a proper life.  With the ending of the EMA she guesses they will stop coming, will be on the street, in trouble, and we may see more social unrest.
> 
> The fact that you wish to speak about issues which are unrelated to the looting illustrates that you wish to deflect from the looting and blame it on people who are not to blame while indeed there are real issues which have caused it and you have wanted to do that to use that as an opportunity to have a go at people not involved.  There is a possibility to create new threads to bring up your issues.  They are not to do with this thread.  Others are.
> 
> On a final note if England becomes the fascist state which some people on this site seem to want, I am very glad that I have a way out in simply voting Scottish Independence.  We have some good plans afoot for economic success working with Norway
> 
> Could a depression bring fascism to Britain?  Telegraph Blogs
> 
> (I am not sure when I will get on again as extremely busy, maybe not for a few days.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With the "extremism" of the left, it is no surprise that the backlash against that is the rise of parties like the BNP and EDL. How the hell the left cannot understand that they are responsible for driving people into these parties is beyond my comprehension.
> 
> These people, the ones joining the BNP and EDL, are not racists, they are not 'extremists', they are not violent. They are ordinary people who see the damage people like you have done to their way of life and they resent it. So they join parties that they believe will fight for them. How can you not see that? Britain is inundated with foreigners, taking British jobs, taking British welfare, and destroying British culture and traditions.... it is not their fault. It is yours. You are the ones who tell communities "don't display Christmas decorations or the union jack, it might offend the minorities". It does not offend minorities, it offends you.
> 
> This shit - like last week - this is on your head. You and the moronic left who cannot understand that when you force people to sacrifice their own way of life, this is the result. These kids have no future... and it is you who took it from them.
Click to expand...



nice concept.

people who join far right extremist parties are not responsible for joining.

the left is responsible for driving them to joining.


maybe anders breivik will use that line of defense, too.


----------



## Ravi

L.K.Eder said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Scary because I don't believe in Eugeniucs
> 
> 
> 
> The are standard BNP views and you know it.  CG I don't know but she is probably more influenced by the US.
> 
> I attend another forum with British posters.  While we have different views on things, the only ones who who come up with this crap were one BNP supporter now gone and Americans and the americans came to be shown as being a part of what has now been identified as a global movement of anti islam extremism. Something which the EDL themselves part of the network of.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> see my location.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and you failed to see me address that re Luton and also to say the reasons and work that is going on.
> 
> 
> 
> Well I have not used the word racist and bigots so that one comes from your own thinking.  I have however seen a documentary  of somewhere where a lot of white immigrants looking for work were being treated extremely badly by the local population.
> 
> Having a difficulty with immigration is completely different issues to the riots.  To try to pretend these riots are about immigration is simply to try to change the issue of the riots and exploit the riots for your own political agenda. If you want to discuss immigration then I suggest you start you own thread.
> 
> 
> 
> If you have a problem concerning this it is of no relevance to this thread. People do blame Poles most.  They are the new immigrants.  They do good work.  Their was a documentary a couple of years ago on some of the work they were doing.  Picking cabbages or something and packing potatoes.  They got £8 an hour for picking the cabbages.  The owner said he was well willing to give the job to locals.  The reporter went down to outside the Jobcentre and offered the job but there was no way they were going to do it.  Not one took them up. Two people agreed to try out the potato packing factory.  They were very aggrieved to be under the supervision of Poles and extremely upset at the level of work expected of them.  One only lasted a day or two.  The other however adjusted and ended up with a full time job.  Poles work, get used to it.
> 
> Other companies have said the same.  They are good workers, work hard, do the job and go home.  There is zero reason to have a go at Poles when local people without jobs have been unwilling to get off their arse and do the work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are not a problem in my society and we have found that through shared schooling there is virtually no prejudice among school leavers whether white or Muslim.  The biggest problem Muslims have in integrating in Scotland is the extent to which people drink.
> 
> All this has zero to do with the thread and only something to do with your desire to pretend that the looting was caused by immigration or Muslims which it was not.
> 
> There are reasons and problems which gave rise to looting but the have nothing to do with immigration which clearly is your mantra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Were the majority of Pakistani looters?  No they were not.  If you want to start a thread on unemployment start one.
> 
> All you are doing is trying to deflect a problem in England, the riots and looting and blame minorities and new immigrants.  You yourself will have been blaming them for the problem what ever it is.  That appears to be your way. To pretend it in any way characterises the temperament of British people is a wish which will never come true.  Most of us got an education. The blaming of the immigrants, first Jews, the blacks, now Muslims and Poles,  is centuries all. Hey, where are the Roma, you have forgotten them.
> 
> Now I have read as much of your hate promotion as I am prepared to do.  I have at the moment staying with me a friend from Essex.  We were discussing the issue last night.  It may surprise you to hear she does not share your thoughts at all but does believe that there are a great number of disaffected youth who at the moment she gets in her FE classes to teach while they receive there £30 pw EMA.  She says they arrive like you just would not want them in your class and she teaches them and credits them whenever she sees some achievement and she says that little by little several of these in each year will start to see that they can achieve and understand the work and that there are several who do make it through, gain confidence and get themselves into employment.
> 
> She sees her work as helpful first in keeping these disaffected kids off the street and second in that in actually reaches some who had been lost to the system and rehabilitates them and gets them back to lead a proper life.  With the ending of the EMA she guesses they will stop coming, will be on the street, in trouble, and we may see more social unrest.
> 
> The fact that you wish to speak about issues which are unrelated to the looting illustrates that you wish to deflect from the looting and blame it on people who are not to blame while indeed there are real issues which have caused it and you have wanted to do that to use that as an opportunity to have a go at people not involved.  There is a possibility to create new threads to bring up your issues.  They are not to do with this thread.  Others are.
> 
> On a final note if England becomes the fascist state which some people on this site seem to want, I am very glad that I have a way out in simply voting Scottish Independence.  We have some good plans afoot for economic success working with Norway
> 
> Could a depression bring fascism to Britain?  Telegraph Blogs
> 
> (I am not sure when I will get on again as extremely busy, maybe not for a few days.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the "extremism" of the left, it is no surprise that the backlash against that is the rise of parties like the BNP and EDL. How the hell the left cannot understand that they are responsible for driving people into these parties is beyond my comprehension.
> 
> These people, the ones joining the BNP and EDL, are not racists, they are not 'extremists', they are not violent. They are ordinary people who see the damage people like you have done to their way of life and they resent it. So they join parties that they believe will fight for them. How can you not see that? Britain is inundated with foreigners, taking British jobs, taking British welfare, and destroying British culture and traditions.... it is not their fault. It is yours. You are the ones who tell communities "don't display Christmas decorations or the union jack, it might offend the minorities". It does not offend minorities, it offends you.
> 
> This shit - like last week - this is on your head. You and the moronic left who cannot understand that when you force people to sacrifice their own way of life, this is the result. These kids have no future... and it is you who took it from them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> nice concept.
> 
> people who join far right extremist parties are not responsible for joining.
> 
> the left is responsible for driving them to joining.
> 
> 
> maybe anders breivik will use that line of defense, too.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I almost choked on my coffee reading that. 

The extremist left (labeled by someone that doesn't like the label extremist) is responsible for the actions and in fact the existence of the extremist right.


----------



## sparky

so what's the dif betwix the far right & left anyways?


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> With the "extremism" of the left, it is no surprise that the backlash against that is the rise of parties like the BNP and EDL. How the hell the left cannot understand that they are responsible for driving people into these parties is beyond my comprehension.
> 
> These people, the ones joining the BNP and EDL, are not racists, they are not 'extremists', they are not violent. They are ordinary people who see the damage people like you have done to their way of life and they resent it. So they join parties that they believe will fight for them. How can you not see that? Britain is inundated with foreigners, taking British jobs, taking British welfare, and destroying British culture and traditions.... it is not their fault. It is yours. You are the ones who tell communities "don't display Christmas decorations or the union jack, it might offend the minorities". It does not offend minorities, it offends you.
> 
> This shit - like last week - this is on your head. You and the moronic left who cannot understand that when you force people to sacrifice their own way of life, this is the result. These kids have no future... and it is you who took it from them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nice concept.
> 
> people who join far right extremist parties are not responsible for joining.
> 
> the left is responsible for driving them to joining.
> 
> 
> maybe anders breivik will use that line of defense, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, I almost choked on my coffee reading that.
> 
> The extremist left (labeled by someone that doesn't like the label extremist) is responsible for the actions and in fact the existence of the extremist right.
Click to expand...


I guess you don't have much exposure to parties like the BNP and EDL so I shall explain. 

Historically, both have been seen as 'far right' and most certainly have deserved the label of 'racist'. However, in recent years, both the BNP and EDL have moderated their language - and have gotten far smarter about playing to people's fears, without the use of overtly racist sentiment. They have, basically, wised up to what used to concern people about their beliefs. 

So, now we have much less 'agressive' and 'overt' racism from them. 

At the same time, we have Britain being more and more welfare driven, and allowing almost unchecked immigration (as part of the EU and overly generous with African and Middle Eastern countries), which is costing taxpayers more and more money, more and more funding towards their health service (bearing in mind that it is free at the point of delivery - so you have people coming into the system without contributing to it). So, many people have got to breaking point. The major parties - Labour, Conservative and Liberal Democrats, are not listening to them. So where do they go to have their views heard? To parties like the BNP and EDL. Sad, but true. Their more moderate language is seen as representing traditional England. 

Dangerous shit for Britain.


----------



## recklesslogic

Perhaps the views I stated were not for this thread.  I was inspired by the talk of the state of the nation and the immigration issues etc and perhaps should have stated my opinions on another thread, the riot issue passed me by.

That's a fair comment.

Alexa, keep hiding under your duvet and pretending there isn't huge problems and maybe they will go away.  Or perhaps your little band of do gooders will spread like wildfire and everything will be fine in the world.  I doubt it though.

And what's all this bollocks about Muslims having problems in Scotland because of the level of alcohol that's consumed????  What's that got to do with anything?  There's no pubs in Muslim areas, they don't have to see the drinking going on, and besides, that's the culture of the country they have moved into.

If I moved to Pakistan would I be within my rights to complain about the lack of Bacon?  Or have the right to complain about Ramadan or the dress code or the call to prayer?  NO I wouldn't. I would be expected to live in the culture, within the law, within the communities expectations of right and wrong.  I would have no right to impose my views on one damn thing.  Because you can bet your bottom dollar that the people of Pakistan wouldn't be dancing around me, making sure I wasn't offended by their ways.  Their attitude would be, 'you want to live here, you live within our rules.'

They would at the very least ask me to disappear back where I came from, but more likely behead me in the street and wrap me in a burning Union Jack. 

California Girl makes a valid point which was mentioned by myself.  If the public have serious issues with something and they are ignored, or feel that they don't have a voice, they will lean towards a party that offers some sort of lifeline?

Why are the BNP getting more and more votes every election?

Why are EDL members doubling every 2 years?

Anyone that makes up their mind on an issue without hearing from all sides is a fool.  I listen to all parties, what they represent, what they offer and what they have to say.  Turning over the page or the TV channel and mumbling 'Bigots' 'extremists' or any other blanket statement is just a way of making yourself feel better for your compliance and conformity with the hypocracy that is our democracy.  But not everyone is a sheep you know.

Have you ever wondered why in every opinion poll Immigration is high up the list of concerns from the public, but virtually ever political party campaigns on health and education?  Its the safe bet to avoid the immigration issue mainly because of the fear of people like Alexa banging their drum on Question Time and pointing the Racist finger.  Every politician is shit scared of losing their job for saying the wrong thing. Its the Enoch Powell effect. Well its time that someone stood up and tackled the issue head on, they would have more support than they could ever imagine. 

The Australian prime minister has mastered the art better than anyone. 

Anyway, the riots.  In short.  Poor neighbourhoods taking the opportunity to get as much free stuff as they can while the police were stretched to their limits. It doesn't have to be political, sometimes its just about class.


----------



## California Girl

recklesslogic said:


> Perhaps the views I stated were not for this thread.  I was inspired by the talk of the state of the nation and the immigration issues etc and perhaps should have stated my opinions on another thread, the riot issue passed me by.
> 
> That's a fair comment.
> 
> Alexa, keep hiding under your duvet and pretending there isn't huge problems and maybe they will go away.  Or perhaps your little band of do gooders will spread like wildfire and everything will be fine in the world.  I doubt it though.
> 
> And what's all this bollocks about Muslims having problems in Scotland because of the level of alcohol that's consumed????  What's that got to do with anything?  There's no pubs in Muslim areas, they don't have to see the drinking going on, and besides, that's the culture of the country they have moved into.
> 
> If I moved to Pakistan would I be within my rights to complain about the lack of Bacon?  Or have the right to complain about Ramadan or the dress code or the call to prayer?  NO I wouldn't. I would be expected to live in the culture, within the law, within the communities expectations of right and wrong.  I would have no right to impose my views on one damn thing.  Because you can bet your bottom dollar that the people of Pakistan wouldn't be dancing around me, making sure I wasn't offended by their ways.  Their attitude would be, 'you want to live here, you live within our rules.'
> 
> They would at the very least ask me to disappear back where I came from, but more likely behead me in the street and wrap me in a burning Union Jack.
> 
> California Girl makes a valid point which was mentioned by myself.  If the public have serious issues with something and they are ignored, or feel that they don't have a voice, they will lean towards a party that offers some sort of lifeline?
> 
> Why are the BNP getting more and more votes every election?
> 
> Why are EDL members doubling every 2 years?
> 
> Anyone that makes up their mind on an issue without hearing from all sides is a fool.  I listen to all parties, what they represent, what they offer and what they have to say.  Turning over the page or the TV channel and mumbling 'Bigots' 'extremists' or any other blanket statement is just a way of making yourself feel better for your compliance and conformity with the hypocracy that is our democracy.  But not everyone is a sheep you know.
> 
> Have you ever wondered why in every opinion poll Immigration is high up the list of concerns from the public, but virtually ever political party campaigns on health and education?  Its the safe bet to avoid the immigration issue mainly because of the fear of people like Alexa banging their drum on Question Time and pointing the Racist finger.  Every politician is shit scared of losing their job for saying the wrong thing. Its the Enoch Powell effect. Well its time that someone stood up and tackled the issue head on, they would have more support than they could ever imagine.
> 
> The Australian prime minister has mastered the art better than anyone.
> 
> Anyway, the riots.  In short.  Poor neighbourhoods taking the opportunity to get as much free stuff as they can while the police were stretched to their limits. It doesn't have to be political, sometimes its just about class.



If Britain is not careful, in the not too distant future, the BNP and EDL will be mainstream. And it won't be because the majority of Briton's are racists, it will be because their mainstream parties have allowed 'multiculturalism' to replace the British way of life. 

For the most part, I agree with you about the riots. This was more about sheer wanton destruction and greed than anything else. The majority of these kids saw an opportunity to get shit for free and they took it. 

I do admire the mother who shopped her daughter when she saw her on tv rioting. That is good parenting.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *recklesslogic*
> Anyway, the riots. In short. Poor neighbourhoods taking the opportunity to get as much free stuff as they can while the police were stretched to their limits. It doesn't have to be political, sometimes its just about class.



The riots. In short.

England, for the last 50 years, allows tons of human garbage from Africa, the Middle East and even some from my own part of the world, Latin America, to flood the country and now, half a century later, the english people and their elected representatives scratch their collective heads and ask themselves:

"*OOOHHH, MY GOD!!

Why does our beautiful island now look like a poor, illiterate, violent shithole like Mexico, Brazil, Nigeria and South Africa??

What have we done wrong??*  "

IDIOTS.


----------



## Intense

California Girl said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, for heaven's sake, you humorless moron.... I referred to 'we' as the human race 'we', breeding the stupid out - stupid racists like Tank.
> 
> Damn, you need to lighten up a tad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't you noticed, CG? She has a sly way of indirectly accusing those who won't agree with her of being extremists or wishing her harm. She even indirectly accused me of wishing harm on her, even though I never posted any such thing. It is, of course, a familiar technique often employed by the Labour party to demonize those who speak out against them. No surprise that she should employ the same tactics! It says a lot about her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is the left wing's new mantra 'extremists', 'hatefilled' 'violent', blah, blah, blah. What I find funny is that they think it's ok to label people as 'extremists' for not agreeing with a system that, as we witnessed last week, is not fucking working.
> 
> It's a lazy tactic, used by those who have no legitimate argument - cuz they know they are wrong.
Click to expand...


I don't think a Leftist could recognize an extremist watching his/her neighborhood and home get torched. I bet they would pick out a cop or fireman in the line up before an arsonist even if the arsonist was still holding the gas can to start the fire.


----------



## Intense

Ravi said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> With the "extremism" of the left, it is no surprise that the backlash against that is the rise of parties like the BNP and EDL. How the hell the left cannot understand that they are responsible for driving people into these parties is beyond my comprehension.
> 
> These people, the ones joining the BNP and EDL, are not racists, they are not 'extremists', they are not violent. They are ordinary people who see the damage people like you have done to their way of life and they resent it. So they join parties that they believe will fight for them. How can you not see that? Britain is inundated with foreigners, taking British jobs, taking British welfare, and destroying British culture and traditions.... it is not their fault. It is yours. You are the ones who tell communities "don't display Christmas decorations or the union jack, it might offend the minorities". It does not offend minorities, it offends you.
> 
> This shit - like last week - this is on your head. You and the moronic left who cannot understand that when you force people to sacrifice their own way of life, this is the result. These kids have no future... and it is you who took it from them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nice concept.
> 
> people who join far right extremist parties are not responsible for joining.
> 
> the left is responsible for driving them to joining.
> 
> 
> maybe anders breivik will use that line of defense, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, I almost choked on my coffee reading that.
> 
> The extremist left (labeled by someone that doesn't like the label extremist) is responsible for the actions and in fact the existence of the extremist right.
Click to expand...


 Exactly, using your logic.  The Nanny is responsible for the atmosphere created. The Nanny is a Ninny.  You want a Statist Utopia where 2+2=5 for as long as you say it does, this is part of the responsibility that goes with Warring against Nature and the Forces of Creation. Take off you hat, look yourself in the mirror and say to yourself I am responsible because I try so hard to manipulate and regulate and control matters beyond my right to do so. The backlash is my own doing.


----------



## L.K.Eder

you would make good little nazis.


----------



## José

Intense said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> nice concept.
> 
> people who join far right extremist parties are not responsible for joining.
> 
> the left is responsible for driving them to joining.
> 
> 
> maybe anders breivik will use that line of defense, too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I almost choked on my coffee reading that.
> 
> The extremist left (labeled by someone that doesn't like the label extremist) is responsible for the actions and in fact the existence of the extremist right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly, using your logic.  The Nanny is responsible for the atmosphere created. The Nanny is a Ninny.  You want a Statist Utopia where 2+2=5 for as long as you say it does, this is part of the responsibility that goes with Warring against Nature and the Forces of Creation. Take off you hat, look yourself in the mirror and say to yourself I am responsible because I try so hard to manipulate and regulate and control matters beyond my right to do so. The backlash is my own doing.
Click to expand...


Nanny state my ass... there's no nanny state in the haitian shanty towns  "forcing" haitians to steal, rape and kill at an unbelievably high rate that would make you shake your head in disbelief.

But don't let reality get in the way of your rightist partisanship/white guilt.

By all means, don't stop your endless brainstoming exercise to find each and every ridiculous excuse to justify anti-social behavior.


----------



## José

L.K.Eder said:


> you would make good little nazis.



Says the guy who would rather have an arm amputated without anesthesia than leaving good, old Germany and spending the rest of his life in the multiracial paradise of a brazilian favela.

Fucking hipocrites... it's time to walk the talk at least once in your life.


----------



## California Girl

José;4000350 said:
			
		

> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I almost choked on my coffee reading that.
> 
> The extremist left (labeled by someone that doesn't like the label extremist) is responsible for the actions and in fact the existence of the extremist right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly, using your logic.  The Nanny is responsible for the atmosphere created. The Nanny is a Ninny.  You want a Statist Utopia where 2+2=5 for as long as you say it does, this is part of the responsibility that goes with Warring against Nature and the Forces of Creation. Take off you hat, look yourself in the mirror and say to yourself I am responsible because I try so hard to manipulate and regulate and control matters beyond my right to do so. The backlash is my own doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nanny state my ass... there's no nanny state in the haitian shanty towns  "forcing" haitians to steal, rape and kill at an unbelievably high rate that would make you shake your head in disbelief.
> 
> But don't let reality get in the way of your rightist partisanship/white guilt.
> 
> By all means, don't stop your endless brainstoming exercise to find each and every ridiculous excuse to justify anti-social behavior.
Click to expand...


You do know we aren't talking about Haiti, right? 

Do less drugs.


----------



## Intense

L.K.Eder said:


> you would make good little nazis.



Anyone that advocates Nationalized Centralized Progressive Socialist Government control fits right in. May I recommend Federalism as an Antidote.


----------



## Intense

José;4000350 said:
			
		

> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I almost choked on my coffee reading that.
> 
> The extremist left (labeled by someone that doesn't like the label extremist) is responsible for the actions and in fact the existence of the extremist right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly, using your logic.  The Nanny is responsible for the atmosphere created. The Nanny is a Ninny.  You want a Statist Utopia where 2+2=5 for as long as you say it does, this is part of the responsibility that goes with Warring against Nature and the Forces of Creation. Take off you hat, look yourself in the mirror and say to yourself I am responsible because I try so hard to manipulate and regulate and control matters beyond my right to do so. The backlash is my own doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nanny state my ass... there's no nanny state in the haitian shanty towns  "forcing" haitians to steal, rape and kill at an unbelievably high rate that would make you shake your head in disbelief.
> 
> But don't let reality get in the way of your rightist partisanship/white guilt.
> 
> By all means, don't stop your endless brainstoming exercise to find each and every ridiculous excuse to justify anti-social behavior.
Click to expand...




> Nanny state my ass... there's no nanny state in the haitian shanty towns  "forcing" haitians to steal, rape and kill at an unbelievably high rate that would make you shake your head in disbelief.


No, the Nanny just makes excuses for their destructive behavior, taking on more than it can chew, contributing to the condition with open out of control immigration policies.


> But don't let reality get in the way of your rightist partisanship/white guilt.


Reason is guiding my perspective, not preconceived notion or false expectation. What exactly is this White Guilt thing you are whining about? You are not Profiling again, are you? You might want to work on that bias thing that is obsessing you. Do you sleep well at night? May I recommend some warm milk and honey with a pinch of cinnamon and nutmeg? 



> By all means, don't stop your endless brainstoming exercise to find each and every ridiculous excuse to justify anti-social behavior.


I do not justify or make excuses for anti-social behavior. The Golden Rule works everywhere it is tried.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *California Girls*
> You do know we aren't talking about Haiti, right?
> 
> Do less drugs.



What I do realise is the fact that hardcore right-wing partisans like you and Intense as well as your leftist counterparts twist every single issue into right vs left ideological shitstorms.

Are the black youths to be blamed for the riots they started in England??

No sir!! The blame lies squarely on the british nanny state, on poverty, on Saint George (England's patron saint), on anything but the actual perpetrators themselves.

You guys are pathetic.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Intense*
> No, the Nanny just makes excuses for their destructive behavior, taking on more than it can chew, contributing to the condition with open out of control immigration policies.



What did Reagan and Thatcher do to modify those open, out of control immigration policies or at least to enforce the existing laws more vigorously, Intense?

Oh wait!! Reagan not only did nothing to correct the situation... he actually gave a blanket amnesty to millions of illegal hispanics!!

The open out of control immigration policies, both in Europe and America, were established in common agreement between both sides of the political spectrum. 

Here you go again with your blind partisanship : )


----------



## California Girl

José;4000590 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *California Girls*
> You do know we aren't talking about Haiti, right?
> 
> Do less drugs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I do realise is the fact that hardcore right-wing partisans like you and Intense as well as your leftist counterparts twist every single issue into right vs left ideological shitstorms.
> 
> Are the black youths to be blamed for the riots they started in England??
> 
> No sir!! The blame lies squarely on the british nanny state, on poverty, on Saint George (England's patron saint), on anything but the actual perpetrators themselves.
> 
> You guys are pathetic.
Click to expand...


If you had half a brain, you would know that I've already said the ones who rioted are responsible. Nor have I claimed 'poverty' is responsible. 

I have claimed - because the evidence suggests - that decades of policies, from both conservative and left wing governments, have led to this. That does not excuse the behavior. It puts it in context. Naturally, one does have to understand the importance of context - which clearly you do not.


----------



## Intense

José;4000590 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *California Girls*
> You do know we aren't talking about Haiti, right?
> 
> Do less drugs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I do realise is the fact that hardcore right-wing partisans like you and Intense as well as your leftist counterparts twist every single issue into right vs left ideological shitstorms.
> 
> Are the black youths to be blamed for the riots they started in England??
> 
> No sir!! The blame lies squarely on the british nanny state, on poverty, on Saint George (England's patron saint), on anything but the actual perpetrators themselves.
> 
> You guys are pathetic.
Click to expand...


*What I do realise is the fact that hardcore right-wing partisans like you and Intense as well as your leftist counterparts twist every single issue into right vs left ideological shitstorms.
*
Speak for yourself Girlie Man. That is not my position. I believe the people burning,  looting, and Rioting are directly responsible for the Riots, them and those that coordinated it. I personally would attribute the delayed response to False Ideological misgivings which obstructed timely response. Hopefully, next time, the Authorities will be better prepared. The Shit Storm was compounded by inadequate response. Limp Dick Syndrome is correctable without having to over compensate.


----------



## California Girl

José;4000654 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *Intense*
> No, the Nanny just makes excuses for their destructive behavior, taking on more than it can chew, contributing to the condition with open out of control immigration policies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did Reagan and Thatcher do to modify those open, out of control immigration policies or at least to enforce the existing laws more vigorously, Intense?
> 
> Oh wait!! Reagan not only did nothing to correct the situation... he actually gave a blanket amnesty to millions of illegal hispanics!!
> 
> The open out of control immigration policies, both in Europe and America, were established in common agreement between both sides of the political spectrum.
> 
> Here you go again with your blind partisanship : )
Click to expand...


You don't seem to understand the UK immigration issue, otherwise you wouldn't have named Thatcher. The issue is unchecked immigration from the EU countries... that happened long after Thatcher left office.

idiot.


----------



## Intense

José;4000654 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *Intense*
> No, the Nanny just makes excuses for their destructive behavior, taking on more than it can chew, contributing to the condition with open out of control immigration policies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did Reagan and Thatcher do to modify those open, out of control immigration policies or at least to enforce the existing laws more vigorously, Intense?
> 
> Oh wait!! Reagan not only did nothing to correct the situation... he actually gave a blanket amnesty to millions of illegal hispanics!!
> 
> The open out of control immigration policies, both in Europe and America, were established in common agreement between both sides of the political spectrum.
> 
> Here you go again with your blind partisanship : )
Click to expand...




> What did Reagan and Thatcher do to modify those open, out of control immigration policies or at least to enforce the existing laws more vigorously, Intense?
> 
> Oh wait!! Reagan not only did nothing to correct the situation... he actually gave a blanket amnesty to millions of illegal hispanics!!


Yes, he caved in to Congress and made an Amnesty deal which Congress never came through on. Good one Jose. Hows that fence job going? How many years ago was that deal made? A one time deal that would end the problem that you never came through on? Reagan Bad.   OMG!!!


----------



## Intense

California Girl said:


> José;4000654 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *Intense*
> No, the Nanny just makes excuses for their destructive behavior, taking on more than it can chew, contributing to the condition with open out of control immigration policies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did Reagan and Thatcher do to modify those open, out of control immigration policies or at least to enforce the existing laws more vigorously, Intense?
> 
> Oh wait!! Reagan not only did nothing to correct the situation... he actually gave a blanket amnesty to millions of illegal hispanics!!
> 
> The open out of control immigration policies, both in Europe and America, were established in common agreement between both sides of the political spectrum.
> 
> Here you go again with your blind partisanship : )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't seem to understand the UK immigration issue, otherwise you wouldn't have named Thatcher. The issue is unchecked immigration from the EU countries... that happened long after Thatcher left office.
> 
> idiot.
Click to expand...


Shhhh.... it can be dangerous to wake a sleep walker.


----------



## California Girl

Intense said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José;4000654 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did Reagan and Thatcher do to modify those open, out of control immigration policies or at least to enforce the existing laws more vigorously, Intense?
> 
> Oh wait!! Reagan not only did nothing to correct the situation... he actually gave a blanket amnesty to millions of illegal hispanics!!
> 
> The open out of control immigration policies, both in Europe and America, were established in common agreement between both sides of the political spectrum.
> 
> Here you go again with your blind partisanship : )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't seem to understand the UK immigration issue, otherwise you wouldn't have named Thatcher. The issue is unchecked immigration from the EU countries... that happened long after Thatcher left office.
> 
> idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shhhh.... it can be dangerous to wake a sleep walker.
Click to expand...


My bad!


----------



## Rat in the Hat

California Girl said:


> José;4000654 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *Intense*
> No, the Nanny just makes excuses for their destructive behavior, taking on more than it can chew, contributing to the condition with open out of control immigration policies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did Reagan and Thatcher do to modify those open, out of control immigration policies or at least to enforce the existing laws more vigorously, Intense?
> 
> Oh wait!! Reagan not only did nothing to correct the situation... he actually gave a blanket amnesty to millions of illegal hispanics!!
> 
> The open out of control immigration policies, both in Europe and America, were established in common agreement between both sides of the political spectrum.
> 
> Here you go again with your blind partisanship : )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't seem to understand the UK immigration issue, otherwise you wouldn't have named Thatcher. The issue is unchecked immigration from the EU countries... that happened long after Thatcher left office.
> 
> idiot.
Click to expand...


Oh Geez, there you go confusing him with facts again.


----------



## L.K.Eder

José;4000355 said:
			
		

> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> you would make good little nazis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Says the guy who would rather have an arm amputated without anesthesia than leaving good, old Germany and spending the rest of his life in the multiracial paradise of a brazilian favela.
> 
> Fucking hipocrites... it's time to walk the talk at least once in your life.
Click to expand...



interesting dilemma.

two arms and a short life in a brazilian favela.

or losing one arm painfully and staying in germany.


i choose not to join far right extremist parties, no matter how strongly the evil left is driving me to do that. i also choose two arms, or at least anesthesia.

i also choose not to fall for populist bullshit, dehumanizing and scape-goating.


----------



## California Girl

Rat in the Hat said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José;4000654 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did Reagan and Thatcher do to modify those open, out of control immigration policies or at least to enforce the existing laws more vigorously, Intense?
> 
> Oh wait!! Reagan not only did nothing to correct the situation... he actually gave a blanket amnesty to millions of illegal hispanics!!
> 
> The open out of control immigration policies, both in Europe and America, were established in common agreement between both sides of the political spectrum.
> 
> Here you go again with your blind partisanship : )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't seem to understand the UK immigration issue, otherwise you wouldn't have named Thatcher. The issue is unchecked immigration from the EU countries... that happened long after Thatcher left office.
> 
> idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh Geez, there you go confusing him with facts again.
Click to expand...


I know, I'm mean like that.


----------



## Mr.Nick

José;4000590 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *California Girls*
> You do know we aren't talking about Haiti, right?
> 
> Do less drugs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I do realise is the fact that hardcore right-wing partisans like you and Intense as well as your leftist counterparts twist every single issue into right vs left ideological shitstorms.
> 
> Are the black youths to be blamed for the riots they started in England??
> 
> No sir!! The blame lies squarely on the british nanny state, on poverty, on Saint George (England's patron saint), on anything but the actual perpetrators themselves.
> 
> You guys are pathetic.
Click to expand...


Everything is a right vs left issue.

The asshats rioting believe they have the RIGHT to loot and destroy and the left sympathizes with them.

Do you believe the right would ever riot??

Hell, there would have been no riot if the government of the UK didn't ban guns.

Do you believe any of those clowns out there rioting and smashing plasma TV's in the middle of the street are "right wing?"

Hell naw, they're all progressives that would add to your rep if they had the opportunity..

The left happens to be the defenders of anarchy and when the little anarchists get too cocky and pull stunts like this the left says "Those aren't us" when it was the left that tells people they have the right to anything they want - and now they take it and feel justified in doing so.

So how the fuck is the left going to sit here and believe their philosophy has nothing to do with this and even have the audacity to claim this isn't a political issue?


----------



## freedombecki

sparky said:


> so what's the dif betwix the far right & left anyways?


 300 million Americans who just want everyone to go to bed healthy, with a full tummy, a job to go to tomorrow if they want one, and enough to send a little gift to Japan to help the people who lost everything in the earthquake/tsunami recently, so they can rebuild their lives, too. And anyone else in real need of our prayers, medicine, and gifts. 

If you think all righties hate Obama and all lefties hate Bush, that's not true. After the elections, we do our best to welcome the new administration and congress, and many of us pray every day for all of them to vote their conscience and stand up for the people back home who believe they have their home state's best interests at heart. If they act bad, they shame our judgment and confidence in them, so we just vote for someone else we think won't make the same mistake the next time.

And that's what I think.


----------



## Ravi

I just heard that a lot of the looters were employed.

I guess that shoots that theory in the ass.


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> I just heard that a lot of the looters were employed.
> 
> I guess that shoots that theory in the ass.



You just heard? Damn, news travels sllllllooooow over the pond. 

Actually, yea, a lot of people who joined in the looting were employed. Most of the actual rioters were kids.... jobless, uneducated, kids.


----------



## California Girl

Mr.Nick said:


> José;4000590 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *California Girls*
> You do know we aren't talking about Haiti, right?
> 
> Do less drugs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I do realise is the fact that hardcore right-wing partisans like you and Intense as well as your leftist counterparts twist every single issue into right vs left ideological shitstorms.
> 
> Are the black youths to be blamed for the riots they started in England??
> 
> No sir!! The blame lies squarely on the british nanny state, on poverty, on Saint George (England's patron saint), on anything but the actual perpetrators themselves.
> 
> You guys are pathetic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Everything is a right vs left issue.
> 
> The asshats rioting believe they have the RIGHT to loot and destroy and the left sympathizes with them.
> 
> Do you believe the right would ever riot??
> 
> Hell, there would have been no riot if the government of the UK didn't ban guns.
> 
> Do you believe any of those clowns out there rioting and smashing plasma TV's in the middle of the street are "right wing?"
> 
> Hell naw, they're all progressives that would add to your rep if they had the opportunity..
> 
> The left happens to be the defenders of anarchy and when the little anarchists get too cocky and pull stunts like this the left says "Those aren't us" when it was the left that tells people they have the right to anything they want - and now they take it and feel justified in doing so.
> 
> So how the fuck is the left going to sit here and believe their philosophy has nothing to do with this and even have the audacity to claim this isn't a political issue?
Click to expand...


I doubt many of the rioters identify with any political ideology. I've never claimed that the rioters or looters were left wing. I said, because there is evidence to support it, that the riots are a result of 'progressive' policies that damage ordinary people in Britain.


----------



## Ravi

California Girl said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José;4000590 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I do realise is the fact that hardcore right-wing partisans like you and Intense as well as your leftist counterparts twist every single issue into right vs left ideological shitstorms.
> 
> Are the black youths to be blamed for the riots they started in England??
> 
> No sir!! The blame lies squarely on the british nanny state, on poverty, on Saint George (England's patron saint), on anything but the actual perpetrators themselves.
> 
> You guys are pathetic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything is a right vs left issue.
> 
> The asshats rioting believe they have the RIGHT to loot and destroy and the left sympathizes with them.
> 
> Do you believe the right would ever riot??
> 
> Hell, there would have been no riot if the government of the UK didn't ban guns.
> 
> Do you believe any of those clowns out there rioting and smashing plasma TV's in the middle of the street are "right wing?"
> 
> Hell naw, they're all progressives that would add to your rep if they had the opportunity..
> 
> The left happens to be the defenders of anarchy and when the little anarchists get too cocky and pull stunts like this the left says "Those aren't us" when it was the left that tells people they have the right to anything they want - and now they take it and feel justified in doing so.
> 
> So how the fuck is the left going to sit here and believe their philosophy has nothing to do with this and even have the audacity to claim this isn't a political issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I doubt many of the rioters identify with any political ideology. I've never claimed that the rioters or looters were left wing. I said, because there is evidence to support it, that the riots are a result of 'progressive' policies that damage ordinary people in Britain.
Click to expand...

What evidence is that?


----------



## Ravi

Over thirty years ago, Britain was obsessing over racial issues and immigration. Blaming the riots on immigration is pretty ridiculous. Blaming the rise of rightwingloon groups on "leftists" is even more ridiculous.

BRITAIN: Facing a Multiracial Future - TIME


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> Over thirty years ago, Britain was obsessing over racial issues and immigration. Blaming the riots on immigration is pretty ridiculous. Blaming the rise of rightwingloon groups on "leftists" is even more ridiculous.
> 
> BRITAIN: Facing a Multiracial Future - TIME



Oh man.... could you read some relevant shit instead of Time magazine?  Research - actual academic research about the problems surrounding Britain's welfare state would be a good start. 

Then, read up on the expansion of the European Union and how uncontrolled immigration from the LDCs (lesser developed countries) of the EU to the wealthier and more welfare generous nations of the EU (like Britain - which is well known to be have the most generous welfare system). 

You need to think, Ravi. Because the media is not gonna think for you. No offense, but you really don't know enough about Britain, it's welfare system, it's culture, or the EU to comment with any real understanding.


----------



## L.K.Eder

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Over thirty years ago, Britain was obsessing over racial issues and immigration. Blaming the riots on immigration is pretty ridiculous. Blaming the rise of rightwingloon groups on "leftists" is even more ridiculous.
> 
> BRITAIN: Facing a Multiracial Future - TIME
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh man.... could you read some relevant shit instead of Time magazine?  Research - actual academic research about the problems surrounding Britain's welfare state would be a good start.
> 
> Then, read up on the expansion of the European Union and how uncontrolled immigration from the LDCs (lesser developed countries) of the EU to the wealthier and more welfare generous nations of the EU (like Britain - which is well known to be have the most generous welfare system).
> 
> You need to think, Ravi. Because the media is not gonna think for you. No offense, but you really don't know enough about Britain, it's welfare system, it's culture, or the EU to comment with any real understanding.
Click to expand...


its clear yur a righter.


----------



## Ravi

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Over thirty years ago, Britain was obsessing over racial issues and immigration. Blaming the riots on immigration is pretty ridiculous. Blaming the rise of rightwingloon groups on "leftists" is even more ridiculous.
> 
> BRITAIN: Facing a Multiracial Future - TIME
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh man.... could you read some relevant shit instead of Time magazine?  Research - actual academic research about the problems surrounding Britain's welfare state would be a good start.
> 
> Then, read up on the expansion of the European Union and how uncontrolled immigration from the LDCs (lesser developed countries) of the EU to the wealthier and more welfare generous nations of the EU (like Britain - which is well known to be have the most generous welfare system).
> 
> You need to think, Ravi. Because the media is not gonna think for you. No offense, but you really don't know enough about Britain, it's welfare system, it's culture, or the EU to comment with any real understanding.
Click to expand...


Right, an article written over thirty years ago about immigration issues in GB is a lie.

I was surprised to discover that Thatcher didn't like Asians coming to GB.

And I'm still waiting for that evidence I asked you about above.


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Over thirty years ago, Britain was obsessing over racial issues and immigration. Blaming the riots on immigration is pretty ridiculous. Blaming the rise of rightwingloon groups on "leftists" is even more ridiculous.
> 
> BRITAIN: Facing a Multiracial Future - TIME
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh man.... could you read some relevant shit instead of Time magazine?  Research - actual academic research about the problems surrounding Britain's welfare state would be a good start.
> 
> Then, read up on the expansion of the European Union and how uncontrolled immigration from the LDCs (lesser developed countries) of the EU to the wealthier and more welfare generous nations of the EU (like Britain - which is well known to be have the most generous welfare system).
> 
> You need to think, Ravi. Because the media is not gonna think for you. No offense, but you really don't know enough about Britain, it's welfare system, it's culture, or the EU to comment with any real understanding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right, an article written over thirty years ago about immigration issues in GB is a lie.
> 
> I was surprised to discover that Thatcher didn't like Asians coming to GB.
> 
> And I'm still waiting for that evidence I asked you about above.
Click to expand...


No, mo chara, but it's 2011 and the EU has expanded dramatically, and their immigration policy has changed dramatically... Britain is swamped with immigrants from the poorer EU countries. And, with that, has seen a massive increase in crime, costs to its health service, welfare, etc. You cannot have that situation without some kind of occasional backlash by the indigenous people. 

It is far, far, far more complex than you appreciate.... you take everything as an insult to the left.... it really isn't meant to be. It is a comment on decades of progressively liberal agendas. 

If you want evidence, research it for yourself. I'm not gonna spoon feed you - but I suggest you read actual research and not media articles. And.... I didn't actually say - or mean to infer - that the article was a lie.... just that a 30 year old article is not actually gonna help you understand Britain in 2011.... but I'm sure it helped provide you with bullshit to whine about.


----------



## L.K.Eder

http://library.fes.de/pdf-files/id/ipa/08041.pdf

Free Movement in the EU - The Case of Great Britain

from the conclusion

 The popular press was generally hostile to A8 migrant
workers. This was part of an overall hostility to immigration,
and specifically entailed a focus on the prospect
of »benefit tourism«. However, fears about social
dumping and pushing down wages or taking advantage
of social security benefits have no foundation. Various
studies have struggled to find any impact on the wage
levels or employment prospects of native workers. In the
period of time that coincides with the largest arrival of
A8 workers, the gross weekly earnings of full-time employees
increased. The falling rate of increase in weekly
earnings after 2008 is attributable to the economic crisis
and its aftermath. After 2008, some A8 workers left,
and the number of new workers arriving slowed down
considerably.

..

Further, contrary to the claims of »benefit tourism«
A8 workers are far less likely to receive benefits or live in
social housing than native workers. They contribute significantly
more to the tax and benefit system than they
receive. Therefore they have made a substantial contribution
to the UK fiscal system. The concentration of A8
workers in some localities has put an additional burden
on affordable housing and increased demand in some
schools for language support.

..


----------



## Intense

'We're not trying to be armchair generals': Clegg denies rift with police over tactics to halt riots

    Police: Our robust tactics were not a result of political interference
    Seven out of 10 voters do not support cuts to police
    Less than one in three back the PM's handling of the crisis
    Clegg hails 'brilliant' police as Government backtracks 


Read more: London riots 2011: Nick Clegg denies rift with police and says ministers aren't trying to be 'armchair generals' | Mail Online


----------



## ekrem

The Polish workers and others do also come to Germany. What they cause is economic competition and pressure for "high"-salary jobs which can now be done at lower costs. As long as there are no Police statistics posted these accusations (Crime) stay accusations. What the EU does on immigration and with Schengen is no Leftist-policy, but mainly the product of the private economy's needs.

In Germany all crimes made by "non-Germans" is done to 25-33% by "non-Germans" not registered in Germany. Either tourists or members of international crime-gangs which travel to Germany with the intent of doing crime and then leave.
Probably, it's the same in the UK.
Federal Agency for Civic Education - Ausländerkriminalität - Informationen zur politischen Bildung

Crime from immigrant community comes from youth, and that is the product of education-failure, which can be improved.
It's not right to say or imply, that East-Europeans immigrate with intention to do crime. They want to earn money, and the local economy welcomes their immigration.


----------



## Ravi

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh man.... could you read some relevant shit instead of Time magazine?  Research - actual academic research about the problems surrounding Britain's welfare state would be a good start.
> 
> Then, read up on the expansion of the European Union and how uncontrolled immigration from the LDCs (lesser developed countries) of the EU to the wealthier and more welfare generous nations of the EU (like Britain - which is well known to be have the most generous welfare system).
> 
> You need to think, Ravi. Because the media is not gonna think for you. No offense, but you really don't know enough about Britain, it's welfare system, it's culture, or the EU to comment with any real understanding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right, an article written over thirty years ago about immigration issues in GB is a lie.
> 
> I was surprised to discover that Thatcher didn't like Asians coming to GB.
> 
> And I'm still waiting for that evidence I asked you about above.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, mo chara, but it's 2011 and the EU has expanded dramatically, and their immigration policy has changed dramatically... Britain is swamped with immigrants from the poorer EU countries. And, with that, has seen a massive increase in crime, costs to its health service, welfare, etc. You cannot have that situation without some kind of occasional backlash by the indigenous people.
> 
> It is far, far, far more complex than you appreciate.... you take everything as an insult to the left.... it really isn't meant to be. It is a comment on decades of progressively liberal agendas.
> 
> If you want evidence, research it for yourself. I'm not gonna spoon feed you - but I suggest you read actual research and not media articles. And.... I didn't actually say - or mean to infer - that the article was a lie.... just that a 30 year old article is not actually gonna help you understand Britain in 2011.... but I'm sure it helped provide you with bullshit to whine about.
Click to expand...


Your opinion is not fact, as much as you wish it to be. The evidence you claim exists isn't evidence at all, it is merely what you wish to believe.

See the post after yours....now that it what evidence looks like.


----------



## sparky

from the ashes>
Professionals - Riot Rebuild


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right, an article written over thirty years ago about immigration issues in GB is a lie.
> 
> I was surprised to discover that Thatcher didn't like Asians coming to GB.
> 
> And I'm still waiting for that evidence I asked you about above.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, mo chara, but it's 2011 and the EU has expanded dramatically, and their immigration policy has changed dramatically... Britain is swamped with immigrants from the poorer EU countries. And, with that, has seen a massive increase in crime, costs to its health service, welfare, etc. You cannot have that situation without some kind of occasional backlash by the indigenous people.
> 
> It is far, far, far more complex than you appreciate.... you take everything as an insult to the left.... it really isn't meant to be. It is a comment on decades of progressively liberal agendas.
> 
> If you want evidence, research it for yourself. I'm not gonna spoon feed you - but I suggest you read actual research and not media articles. And.... I didn't actually say - or mean to infer - that the article was a lie.... just that a 30 year old article is not actually gonna help you understand Britain in 2011.... but I'm sure it helped provide you with bullshit to whine about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your opinion is not fact, as much as you wish it to be. The evidence you claim exists isn't evidence at all, it is merely what you wish to believe.
> 
> See the post after yours....now that it what evidence looks like.
Click to expand...


I've never actually said my opinion was fact, mate. I said - and continue to say - that I've read half a ton of research about this issue... not one piece from one set of researchers - but ongoing longitudinal studies that clearly shows the damage of Britain's old style of welfare.... here's a clue.... they changed their welfare system because of that research. Now, if that research was not valid, or did not exist, then why would the British Government change it's approach to welfare? 

Please try to understand this.... if you give a shit.... I am commenting purely on what I have seen happen in Britain and the background to it. Things do not happen in a vacuum. Actions - and policies - often take decades to show solid results. 

You seem to think that one piece of research is sufficient to hang an opinion on. It is not. When it comes to socio-economic issues, one really needs to look at a whole bunch of research, studies (and there are some great longitudinal studies going back decades in the UK). 

You also seem to think that I am 'insulting' liberals by saying this is a result of liberal policies. I'm really not. You might take it as an insult - it is not meant to be. It is just a comment on what leads up to this sort of behavior.


----------



## sparky

> I've never actually said my opinion was fact, mate



no need to.....


----------



## California Girl

sparky said:


> I've never actually said my opinion was fact, mate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no need to....
Click to expand...


Apparently there is.


----------



## Ravi

California Girl said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José;4000590 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I do realise is the fact that hardcore right-wing partisans like you and Intense as well as your leftist counterparts twist every single issue into right vs left ideological shitstorms.
> 
> Are the black youths to be blamed for the riots they started in England??
> 
> No sir!! The blame lies squarely on the british nanny state, on poverty, on Saint George (England's patron saint), on anything but the actual perpetrators themselves.
> 
> You guys are pathetic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything is a right vs left issue.
> 
> The asshats rioting believe they have the RIGHT to loot and destroy and the left sympathizes with them.
> 
> Do you believe the right would ever riot??
> 
> Hell, there would have been no riot if the government of the UK didn't ban guns.
> 
> Do you believe any of those clowns out there rioting and smashing plasma TV's in the middle of the street are "right wing?"
> 
> Hell naw, they're all progressives that would add to your rep if they had the opportunity..
> 
> The left happens to be the defenders of anarchy and when the little anarchists get too cocky and pull stunts like this the left says "Those aren't us" when it was the left that tells people they have the right to anything they want - and now they take it and feel justified in doing so.
> 
> So how the fuck is the left going to sit here and believe their philosophy has nothing to do with this and even have the audacity to claim this isn't a political issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I doubt many of the rioters identify with any political ideology. I've never claimed that the rioters or looters were left wing. I said, because there is evidence to support it, that the riots are a result of 'progressive' policies that damage ordinary people in Britain.
Click to expand...


Again, what evidence is that?


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everything is a right vs left issue.
> 
> The asshats rioting believe they have the RIGHT to loot and destroy and the left sympathizes with them.
> 
> Do you believe the right would ever riot??
> 
> Hell, there would have been no riot if the government of the UK didn't ban guns.
> 
> Do you believe any of those clowns out there rioting and smashing plasma TV's in the middle of the street are "right wing?"
> 
> Hell naw, they're all progressives that would add to your rep if they had the opportunity..
> 
> The left happens to be the defenders of anarchy and when the little anarchists get too cocky and pull stunts like this the left says "Those aren't us" when it was the left that tells people they have the right to anything they want - and now they take it and feel justified in doing so.
> 
> So how the fuck is the left going to sit here and believe their philosophy has nothing to do with this and even have the audacity to claim this isn't a political issue?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt many of the rioters identify with any political ideology. I've never claimed that the rioters or looters were left wing. I said, because there is evidence to support it, that the riots are a result of 'progressive' policies that damage ordinary people in Britain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, what evidence is that?
Click to expand...


Again, research the wide variety of studies undertaken - and continuing - in the UK. There is a whole bunch of longitudinal data around... the Labour Party used that research to make fundamental changes in their welfare system. So that should tell you that I'm not wrong.


----------



## L.K.Eder

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt many of the rioters identify with any political ideology. I've never claimed that the rioters or looters were left wing. I said, because there is evidence to support it, that the riots are a result of 'progressive' policies that damage ordinary people in Britain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, what evidence is that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, research the wide variety of studies undertaken - and continuing - in the UK. There is a whole bunch of longitudinal data around... the Labour Party used that research to make fundamental changes in their welfare system. So that should tell you that I'm not wrong.
Click to expand...


one once again, callybrat can't back her shit up.

should be so easy.


----------



## California Girl

If I'm wrong, then the Labour Government would not have changed it's own welfare policy from a 'welfare' to a 'welfare to work' policy. Would it? No. If unchecked welfare had been proved to work, the policy would not need changing. Common sense. But.... it was Labour that created the welfare system and it was Labour who changed it - because decades of research clearly showed the damage done by the original 'welfare' policy. 

Facts are inconvenient to some. But they do not change reality. Linking to a study is meaningless.... what is meaningful is the accumulative results of decade after decade of longitudinal research.


----------



## L.K.Eder

California Girl said:


> If I'm wrong, then the Labour Government would not have changed it's own welfare policy from a 'welfare' to a 'welfare to work' policy. Would it? No. If unchecked welfare had been proved to work, the policy would not need changing. Common sense. But.... it was Labour that created the welfare system and it was Labour who changed it - because decades of research clearly showed the damage done by the original 'welfare' policy.
> 
> Facts are inconvenient to some. But they do not change reality. Linking to a study is meaningless.... what is meaningful is the accumulative results of decade after decade of longitudinal research.



your bullshitting is meaningless.


----------



## Ravi

Jebus.

Thanks for nothing, CG.


----------



## Intense

WELFARE TO WORK POLICIES IN THE UK1
THE WORKFARE CONSENSUS
Anne Daguerre*
In the UK the system of unemployment protection has been characterised by the continuous
development of means-tested benefits. Whilst health care remains universal, state protection
in case of unemployment is now granted as a last resort, with a view of altering beneficiaries&#8217;
behaviour in order to promote employability and responsibility. Labour market policies, referred
to as welfare to work policies, have been based on a supply-side policy paradigm according
to which economic inactivity and unemployment are not caused by a lack of demand, but by
the individual characteristics of the economically inactive. Interestingly, the recession and the
subsequent increase in unemployment, from about 6% prior to the recession to 8% in May
2010, did not shake the faith in this supply side paradigm. As a result, there is a strong cross
party consensus in favour of workfare schemes, with only minimal disagreements between the
Labour and the Conservative Party. Under the workfare approach, the unemployed and the
economically inactive are obliged to work or participate in community or training schemes in
return for their benefits.
http://www.ceri-sciencespo.com/archive/2010/juin/dossier/art_ad.pdf


----------



## Intense

Welfare Reform

Many people on benefits perceive the financial risks of moving into work as just too great. For some groups the gains to work, particularly at low hours, are small, and any gain can easily be wiped out altogether by in-work costs such as transport. The Coalition Government has identified two key problems with the current system:

    work incentives are poor, and
    the system is too complex.

We want to reform the system to help people to move into and progress in work, while supporting the most vulnerable.

Reforming the benefit system aims to make it fairer, more affordable and better able to tackle poverty, worklessness and welfare dependency. We have already announced a range of measures in the Budget and Spending Review to achieve this. Alongside this, we made the commitment to overhaul the benefit system to promote work and personal responsibility.
Welfare Reform Bill 2011

On 16 February 2011 the Welfare Reform Bill was introduced to Parliament. The bill introduces a wide range of reforms to make the benefits and tax credits system fairer and simpler by:

    creating the right incentives to get more people into work by ensuring work always pays
    protecting the most vulnerable in our society
    delivering fairness to those claiming benefit and to the tax payer.

    Welfare Reform Bill 2011
Welfare Reform - DWP


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> Jebus.
> 
> Thanks for nothing, CG.



You're welcome Ravster. Your problem appears to be that you want me to provide you with a one size fits all answer. There isn't one. Which is why I said you need to study the UK's political system, and impacts of it's policies over decades. There are vast amounts of research available but you need to study it for yourself, consider all the outcomes and draw conclusions. I can't do that for you. You want simple - there is no simple. You accept those who spoon feed one piece of information and one piece of information does not give you a complete picture. Why is that so hard to understand? The only reason I know about this shit is because it's been something I've undertaken for work. I write about this shit. I have done for several years. But what would be the point of me linking you to my articles? That wouldn't be honest of me, nor would it provide you with your one size fits all answer. 

But.... the evidence is there - why did Labour do a complete U-turn on it's historic stance on welfare? Because overwhelming amounts of research showed very clearly the damage it was doing. That's not made up.... that's what happened.


----------



## Colin

Ravi said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right, an article written over thirty years ago about immigration issues in GB is a lie.
> 
> I was surprised to discover that Thatcher didn't like Asians coming to GB.
> 
> And I'm still waiting for that evidence I asked you about above.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, mo chara, but it's 2011 and the EU has expanded dramatically, and their immigration policy has changed dramatically... Britain is swamped with immigrants from the poorer EU countries. And, with that, has seen a massive increase in crime, costs to its health service, welfare, etc. You cannot have that situation without some kind of occasional backlash by the indigenous people.
> 
> It is far, far, far more complex than you appreciate.... you take everything as an insult to the left.... it really isn't meant to be. It is a comment on decades of progressively liberal agendas.
> 
> If you want evidence, research it for yourself. I'm not gonna spoon feed you - but I suggest you read actual research and not media articles. And.... I didn't actually say - or mean to infer - that the article was a lie.... just that a 30 year old article is not actually gonna help you understand Britain in 2011.... but I'm sure it helped provide you with bullshit to whine about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your opinion is not fact, as much as you wish it to be. The evidence you claim exists isn't evidence at all, it is merely what you wish to believe.
> 
> See the post after yours....now that it what evidence looks like.
Click to expand...


Evidence? Really? Firstly it only references a proportion of the immigration into Britain. Secondly, It appears to make no reference to the thousands of self-employed brick layers, carpenters, plumbers etc who found themselves without work because the polish immigrants undercut the market. Many customers later found at, at their cost, why it was an unwise decision to employ a foreign and unknown worker. It says nothing about the more significant uncontrolled immigration from third world countries and the drain it makes on the British taxpayer. 

It's all very well for you to smugly opine your opinions based on recent news reports, but the fact remains that, not being a resident of Britain, you can only scratch the surface of the deeper knowledge required to gain a better understanding of what is really going on here.  You want some facts about how immigration has spiralled out of control under Labour and more importantly why...then read this. Something we British already knew about, but clearly you didn't.



> The huge increases in migrants over the last decade were partly due to a politically motivated attempt by ministers to radically change the country and "rub the Right's nose in diversity", according to Andrew Neather, a former adviser to Tony Blair, Jack Straw and David Blunkett.
> He said Labour's relaxation of controls was a deliberate plan to "open up the UK to mass migration" but that ministers were nervous and reluctant to discuss such a move publicly for fear it would alienate its "core working class vote".
> As a result, the public argument for immigration concentrated instead on the economic benefits and need for more migrants.
> Critics said the revelations showed a "conspiracy" within Government to impose mass immigration for "cynical" political reasons.
> Mr Neather was a speech writer who worked in Downing Street for Tony Blair and in the Home Office for Jack Straw and David Blunkett, in the early 2000s.
> 
> Sir Andrew Green, chairman of the Migrationwatch think tank, said: "Now at least the truth is out, and it's dynamite.
> "Many have long suspected that mass immigration under Labour was not just a cock up but also a conspiracy. They were right.
> "This Government has admitted three million immigrants for cynical political reasons concealed by dodgy economic camouflage."
> The chairmen of the cross-party Group for Balanced Migration, MPs Frank Field and Nicholas Soames, said: "We welcome this statement by an ex-adviser, which the whole country knows to be true.
> "It is the first beam of truth that has officially been shone on the immigration issue in Britain
> 
> Labour wanted mass immigration to make UK more multicultural, says former adviser - Telegraph



And here is what Alan Johnson had to say about his OWN party's immigration policy:



> Alan Johnson, the Home Secretary, has admitted for the first time that the Government has been inept over its handling of immigration which has increased pressure on local jobs and services
> 
> The comments echo long-standing concerns from some local authorities who say their limited resources, such as housing, education and health, have been severely hit by sudden influxes of large numbers of migrants in to their communities.
> 
> Mr Johnson also appeared to criticised some of his predecessors for allowing a backlog of failed asylum seekers and unreturned foreign national prisoners to build up.
> 
> It emerged in 2006 that there was a backlog of up to 450,000 so-called "legacy cases" that officials are now having to work through. At the time, John Reid, the then Home Secretary, described the immigration and asylum service "not fit for purpose".
> 
> Government 'maladroit' on immigration, says Home Secretary - Telegraph



There's an old adage...a little information is a dangerous thing. This thread proves the point!


----------



## California Girl

Colin said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, mo chara, but it's 2011 and the EU has expanded dramatically, and their immigration policy has changed dramatically... Britain is swamped with immigrants from the poorer EU countries. And, with that, has seen a massive increase in crime, costs to its health service, welfare, etc. You cannot have that situation without some kind of occasional backlash by the indigenous people.
> 
> It is far, far, far more complex than you appreciate.... you take everything as an insult to the left.... it really isn't meant to be. It is a comment on decades of progressively liberal agendas.
> 
> If you want evidence, research it for yourself. I'm not gonna spoon feed you - but I suggest you read actual research and not media articles. And.... I didn't actually say - or mean to infer - that the article was a lie.... just that a 30 year old article is not actually gonna help you understand Britain in 2011.... but I'm sure it helped provide you with bullshit to whine about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your opinion is not fact, as much as you wish it to be. The evidence you claim exists isn't evidence at all, it is merely what you wish to believe.
> 
> See the post after yours....now that it what evidence looks like.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Evidence? Really? Firstly it only references a proportion of the immigration into Britain. Secondly, It appears to make no reference to the thousands of self-employed brick layers, carpenters, plumbers etc who found themselves without work because the polish immigrants undercut the market. Many customers later found at, at their cost, why it was an unwise decision to employ a foreign and unknown worker. It says nothing about the more significant uncontrolled immigration from third world countries and the drain it makes on the British taxpayer.
> 
> It's all very well for you to smugly opine your opinions based on recent news reports, but the fact remains that, not being a resident of Britain, you can only scratch the surface of the deeper knowledge required to gain a better understanding of what is really going on here.  You want some facts about how immigration has spiralled out of control under Labour and more importantly why...then read this. Something we British already knew about, but clearly you didn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The huge increases in migrants over the last decade were partly due to a politically motivated attempt by ministers to radically change the country and "rub the Right's nose in diversity", according to Andrew Neather, a former adviser to Tony Blair, Jack Straw and David Blunkett.
> He said Labour's relaxation of controls was a deliberate plan to "open up the UK to mass migration" but that ministers were nervous and reluctant to discuss such a move publicly for fear it would alienate its "core working class vote".
> As a result, the public argument for immigration concentrated instead on the economic benefits and need for more migrants.
> Critics said the revelations showed a "conspiracy" within Government to impose mass immigration for "cynical" political reasons.
> Mr Neather was a speech writer who worked in Downing Street for Tony Blair and in the Home Office for Jack Straw and David Blunkett, in the early 2000s.
> 
> Sir Andrew Green, chairman of the Migrationwatch think tank, said: "Now at least the truth is out, and it's dynamite.
> "Many have long suspected that mass immigration under Labour was not just a cock up but also a conspiracy. They were right.
> "This Government has admitted three million immigrants for cynical political reasons concealed by dodgy economic camouflage."
> The chairmen of the cross-party Group for Balanced Migration, MPs Frank Field and Nicholas Soames, said: "We welcome this statement by an ex-adviser, which the whole country knows to be true.
> "It is the first beam of truth that has officially been shone on the immigration issue in Britain
> 
> Labour wanted mass immigration to make UK more multicultural, says former adviser - Telegraph
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And here is what Alan Johnson had to say about his OWN party's immigration policy:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alan Johnson, the Home Secretary, has admitted for the first time that the Government has been inept over its handling of immigration which has increased pressure on local jobs and services
> 
> The comments echo long-standing concerns from some local authorities who say their limited resources, such as housing, education and health, have been severely hit by sudden influxes of large numbers of migrants in to their communities.
> 
> Mr Johnson also appeared to criticised some of his predecessors for allowing a backlog of failed asylum seekers and unreturned foreign national prisoners to build up.
> 
> It emerged in 2006 that there was a backlog of up to 450,000 so-called "legacy cases" that officials are now having to work through. At the time, John Reid, the then Home Secretary, described the immigration and asylum service "not fit for purpose".
> 
> Government 'maladroit' on immigration, says Home Secretary - Telegraph
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's an old adage...a little information is a dangerous thing. This thread proves the point!
Click to expand...


That's exactly why I suggest that, instead of taking media articles, people undertake their own research of the huge resources available on this topic. 

I'll tell you what kind of bothers me.... is the call to ban BlackBerry Messenger because of this. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater! Hysterical, knee-jerk reactions are usually not smart. For example, countries that currently ban the use of BlackBerry Messenger - China and a variety of UAE countries. Is that what Britain wants to emulate? Shame on them!


----------



## L.K.Eder

Colin said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, mo chara, but it's 2011 and the EU has expanded dramatically, and their immigration policy has changed dramatically... Britain is swamped with immigrants from the poorer EU countries. And, with that, has seen a massive increase in crime, costs to its health service, welfare, etc. You cannot have that situation without some kind of occasional backlash by the indigenous people.
> 
> It is far, far, far more complex than you appreciate.... you take everything as an insult to the left.... it really isn't meant to be. It is a comment on decades of progressively liberal agendas.
> 
> If you want evidence, research it for yourself. I'm not gonna spoon feed you - but I suggest you read actual research and not media articles. And.... I didn't actually say - or mean to infer - that the article was a lie.... just that a 30 year old article is not actually gonna help you understand Britain in 2011.... but I'm sure it helped provide you with bullshit to whine about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your opinion is not fact, as much as you wish it to be. The evidence you claim exists isn't evidence at all, it is merely what you wish to believe.
> 
> See the post after yours....now that it what evidence looks like.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Evidence? Really? Firstly it only references a proportion of the immigration into Britain. Secondly, It appears to make no reference to the thousands of self-employed brick layers, carpenters, plumbers etc who found themselves without work because the polish immigrants undercut the market. Many customers later found at, at their cost, why it was an unwise decision to employ a foreign and unknown worker. It says nothing about the more significant uncontrolled immigration from third world countries and the drain it makes on the British taxpayer.
> 
> It's all very well for you to smugly opine your opinions based on recent news reports, but the fact remains that, not being a resident of Britain, you can only scratch the surface of the deeper knowledge required to gain a better understanding of what is really going on here.  You want some facts about how immigration has spiralled out of control under Labour and more importantly why...then read this. Something we British already knew about, but clearly you didn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The huge increases in migrants over the last decade were partly due to a politically motivated attempt by ministers to radically change the country and "rub the Right's nose in diversity", according to Andrew Neather, a former adviser to Tony Blair, Jack Straw and David Blunkett.
> He said Labour's relaxation of controls was a deliberate plan to "open up the UK to mass migration" but that ministers were nervous and reluctant to discuss such a move publicly for fear it would alienate its "core working class vote".
> As a result, the public argument for immigration concentrated instead on the economic benefits and need for more migrants.
> Critics said the revelations showed a "conspiracy" within Government to impose mass immigration for "cynical" political reasons.
> Mr Neather was a speech writer who worked in Downing Street for Tony Blair and in the Home Office for Jack Straw and David Blunkett, in the early 2000s.
> 
> Sir Andrew Green, chairman of the Migrationwatch think tank, said: "Now at least the truth is out, and it's dynamite.
> "Many have long suspected that mass immigration under Labour was not just a cock up but also a conspiracy. They were right.
> "This Government has admitted three million immigrants for cynical political reasons concealed by dodgy economic camouflage."
> The chairmen of the cross-party Group for Balanced Migration, MPs Frank Field and Nicholas Soames, said: "We welcome this statement by an ex-adviser, which the whole country knows to be true.
> "It is the first beam of truth that has officially been shone on the immigration issue in Britain
> 
> Labour wanted mass immigration to make UK more multicultural, says former adviser - Telegraph
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And here is what Alan Johnson had to say about his OWN party's immigration policy:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alan Johnson, the Home Secretary, has admitted for the first time that the Government has been inept over its handling of immigration which has increased pressure on local jobs and services
> 
> The comments echo long-standing concerns from some local authorities who say their limited resources, such as housing, education and health, have been severely hit by sudden influxes of large numbers of migrants in to their communities.
> 
> Mr Johnson also appeared to criticised some of his predecessors for allowing a backlog of failed asylum seekers and unreturned foreign national prisoners to build up.
> 
> It emerged in 2006 that there was a backlog of up to 450,000 so-called "legacy cases" that officials are now having to work through. At the time, John Reid, the then Home Secretary, described the immigration and asylum service "not fit for purpose".
> 
> Government 'maladroit' on immigration, says Home Secretary - Telegraph
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's an old adage...a little information is a dangerous thing. This thread proves the point!
Click to expand...



colin, free movement in the eu concerns citizens of the eu.

i posted that study in response to the brat's queefing (#822) about the immigration of eu citizens.


you demonstrated a nice case of confirmation bias, too.


----------



## California Girl

The rocket science intellect on display with comments such as 'free movement in the eu concerns citizens of the eu' is seriously underwhelming. 

One study is not confirmation. Confirmation is the decades of studies that clearly showed huge damage being done to the most vulnerable in Britain's society - research that even the Labour Government could not deny. So much so that they changed their own policy. And yet, American Liberals think they know better. Fucking laughable.


----------



## Colin

L.K.Eder said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your opinion is not fact, as much as you wish it to be. The evidence you claim exists isn't evidence at all, it is merely what you wish to believe.
> 
> See the post after yours....now that it what evidence looks like.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Evidence? Really? Firstly it only references a proportion of the immigration into Britain. Secondly, It appears to make no reference to the thousands of self-employed brick layers, carpenters, plumbers etc who found themselves without work because the polish immigrants undercut the market. Many customers later found at, at their cost, why it was an unwise decision to employ a foreign and unknown worker. It says nothing about the more significant uncontrolled immigration from third world countries and the drain it makes on the British taxpayer.
> 
> It's all very well for you to smugly opine your opinions based on recent news reports, but the fact remains that, not being a resident of Britain, you can only scratch the surface of the deeper knowledge required to gain a better understanding of what is really going on here.  You want some facts about how immigration has spiralled out of control under Labour and more importantly why...then read this. Something we British already knew about, but clearly you didn't.
> 
> 
> 
> And here is what Alan Johnson had to say about his OWN party's immigration policy:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alan Johnson, the Home Secretary, has admitted for the first time that the Government has been inept over its handling of immigration which has increased pressure on local jobs and services
> 
> The comments echo long-standing concerns from some local authorities who say their limited resources, such as housing, education and health, have been severely hit by sudden influxes of large numbers of migrants in to their communities.
> 
> Mr Johnson also appeared to criticised some of his predecessors for allowing a backlog of failed asylum seekers and unreturned foreign national prisoners to build up.
> 
> It emerged in 2006 that there was a backlog of up to 450,000 so-called "legacy cases" that officials are now having to work through. At the time, John Reid, the then Home Secretary, described the immigration and asylum service "not fit for purpose".
> 
> Government 'maladroit' on immigration, says Home Secretary - Telegraph
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's an old adage...a little information is a dangerous thing. This thread proves the point!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> colin, free movement in the eu concerns citizens of the eu.
> 
> i posted that study in response to the brat's queefing (#822) about the immigration of eu citizens.
> 
> 
> you demonstrated a nice case of confirmation bias, too.
Click to expand...


Yes, I do know that there is free movement within the EU, but thanks anyway for the lesson! I'm talking about uncontrolled immigration. Confirmation bias? Really? Whatever sails your boat pal.


----------



## Colin

Ravi said:


> I just heard that a lot of the looters were employed.
> 
> I guess that shoots that theory in the ass.



Better late than never. I posted as much days ago when all the USMB 'experts' were saying it's all about the poor. But hey! What does the word of a local count when those who live in foreign lands know so much more than the likes of those who live here.


----------



## L.K.Eder

Colin said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Evidence? Really? Firstly it only references a proportion of the immigration into Britain. Secondly, It appears to make no reference to the thousands of self-employed brick layers, carpenters, plumbers etc who found themselves without work because the polish immigrants undercut the market. Many customers later found at, at their cost, why it was an unwise decision to employ a foreign and unknown worker. It says nothing about the more significant uncontrolled immigration from third world countries and the drain it makes on the British taxpayer.
> 
> It's all very well for you to smugly opine your opinions based on recent news reports, but the fact remains that, not being a resident of Britain, you can only scratch the surface of the deeper knowledge required to gain a better understanding of what is really going on here.  You want some facts about how immigration has spiralled out of control under Labour and more importantly why...then read this. Something we British already knew about, but clearly you didn't.
> 
> 
> 
> And here is what Alan Johnson had to say about his OWN party's immigration policy:
> 
> 
> 
> There's an old adage...a little information is a dangerous thing. This thread proves the point!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> colin, free movement in the eu concerns citizens of the eu.
> 
> i posted that study in response to the brat's queefing (#822) about the immigration of eu citizens.
> 
> 
> you demonstrated a nice case of confirmation bias, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I do know that there is free movement within the EU, but thanks anyway for the lesson! I'm talking about uncontrolled immigration. Confirmation bias? Really? Whatever sails your boat pal.
Click to expand...


don't complain about the study not mentioning non eu immigration, when the study concerns immigration of eu citizens, and was posted in response to unsupported spurious bullshit concerning immigration of eu citizens.

if you read at least part of the study, you'd see criticism as well, and the limitations of the study is mentioned as well.


----------



## Ravi

L.K.Eder said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your opinion is not fact, as much as you wish it to be. The evidence you claim exists isn't evidence at all, it is merely what you wish to believe.
> 
> See the post after yours....now that it what evidence looks like.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Evidence? Really? Firstly it only references a proportion of the immigration into Britain. Secondly, It appears to make no reference to the thousands of self-employed brick layers, carpenters, plumbers etc who found themselves without work because the polish immigrants undercut the market. Many customers later found at, at their cost, why it was an unwise decision to employ a foreign and unknown worker. It says nothing about the more significant uncontrolled immigration from third world countries and the drain it makes on the British taxpayer.
> 
> It's all very well for you to smugly opine your opinions based on recent news reports, but the fact remains that, not being a resident of Britain, you can only scratch the surface of the deeper knowledge required to gain a better understanding of what is really going on here.  You want some facts about how immigration has spiralled out of control under Labour and more importantly why...then read this. Something we British already knew about, but clearly you didn't.
> 
> 
> 
> And here is what Alan Johnson had to say about his OWN party's immigration policy:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alan Johnson, the Home Secretary, has admitted for the first time that the Government has been inept over its handling of immigration which has increased pressure on local jobs and services
> 
> The comments echo long-standing concerns from some local authorities who say their limited resources, such as housing, education and health, have been severely hit by sudden influxes of large numbers of migrants in to their communities.
> 
> Mr Johnson also appeared to criticised some of his predecessors for allowing a backlog of failed asylum seekers and unreturned foreign national prisoners to build up.
> 
> It emerged in 2006 that there was a backlog of up to 450,000 so-called "legacy cases" that officials are now having to work through. At the time, John Reid, the then Home Secretary, described the immigration and asylum service "not fit for purpose".
> 
> Government 'maladroit' on immigration, says Home Secretary - Telegraph
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's an old adage...a little information is a dangerous thing. This thread proves the point!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> colin, free movement in the eu concerns citizens of the eu.
> 
> i posted that study in response to the brat's queefing (#822) about the immigration of eu citizens.
> 
> 
> you demonstrated a nice case of confirmation bias, too.
Click to expand...

Yeah, well, I guess it is to be expected.

At least Colin made an effort to back up his opinion.


----------



## Ravi

Colin said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just heard that a lot of the looters were employed.
> 
> I guess that shoots that theory in the ass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Better late than never. I posted as much days ago when all the USMB 'experts' were saying it's all about the poor. But hey! What does the word of a local count when those who live in foreign lands know so much more than the likes of those who live here.
Click to expand...

Wait, I thought you said the Poles took all the jobs? Are these employed people Polish?


----------



## Colin

L.K.Eder said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> colin, free movement in the eu concerns citizens of the eu.
> 
> i posted that study in response to the brat's queefing (#822) about the immigration of eu citizens.
> 
> 
> you demonstrated a nice case of confirmation bias, too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I do know that there is free movement within the EU, but thanks anyway for the lesson! I'm talking about uncontrolled immigration. Confirmation bias? Really? Whatever sails your boat pal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> don't complain about the study not mentioning non eu immigration, when the study concerns immigration of eu citizens, and was posted in response to unsupported spurious bullshit concerning immigration of eu citizens.
> 
> if you read at least part of the study, you'd see criticism as well, and the limitations of the study is mentioned as well.
Click to expand...


Perhaps you don't understand the English language too well, but I didn't complain about NOT mentioning EU immigration. I pointed out that the nub of the problem was UNCONTROLLED immigration! Got IT? But go ahead and make something out of something I DIDN'T say. It seems to be the norm on these boards, so why change!


----------



## Ravi

The US has uncontrolled immigration and we don't have riots over it.


----------



## Colin

Ravi said:


> The US has uncontrolled immigration and we don't have riots over it.



Lol! So what has that asinine non-post to do with this thread. How pathetic can one get!


----------



## California Girl

Colin said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I do know that there is free movement within the EU, but thanks anyway for the lesson! I'm talking about uncontrolled immigration. Confirmation bias? Really? Whatever sails your boat pal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> don't complain about the study not mentioning non eu immigration, when the study concerns immigration of eu citizens, and was posted in response to unsupported spurious bullshit concerning immigration of eu citizens.
> 
> if you read at least part of the study, you'd see criticism as well, and the limitations of the study is mentioned as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Perhaps you don't understand the English language too well, but I didn't complain about NOT mentioning EU immigration. I pointed out that the nub of the problem was UNCONTROLLED immigration! Got IT? But go ahead and make something out of something I DIDN'T say. It seems to be the norm on these boards, so why change!
Click to expand...


It seems to be SOP for some. Accuse others of saying something they didn't say and then creating an issue of it. 

Also, it appears that people want to have an opinion without actually having a basic understanding of the country or it's people. You and I have both stated - time and again - that the issue is uncontrolled immigration - but it appears that people cannot see the word 'uncontrolled'. They think we're making it about immigrants. How dumb is that? 

Clueless people - many of whom have not set foot in your country - think they know shit they don't know. They think your system is our system, they think your 'conservatives' are like our 'conservatives'. They don't have any concept of the impact of EU immigration on your country. Nor do they understand the consequence of the EUHRA on Britain. But no doubt they have an opinion.


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> The US has uncontrolled immigration and we don't have riots over it.



Lord, you are embarrassing.


----------



## California Girl

Colin said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US has uncontrolled immigration and we don't have riots over it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol! So what has that asinine non-post to do with this thread. How pathetic can one get!
Click to expand...


Actually, it has confirmed something. Ravi has no fucking clue about Britain.


----------



## L.K.Eder

Colin said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I do know that there is free movement within the EU, but thanks anyway for the lesson! I'm talking about uncontrolled immigration. Confirmation bias? Really? Whatever sails your boat pal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> don't complain about the study not mentioning non eu immigration, when the study concerns immigration of eu citizens, and was posted in response to unsupported spurious bullshit concerning immigration of eu citizens.
> 
> if you read at least part of the study, you'd see criticism as well, and the limitations of the study is mentioned as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Perhaps you don't understand the English language too well, but I didn't complain about NOT mentioning EU immigration. I pointed out that the nub of the problem was UNCONTROLLED immigration! Got IT? But go ahead and make something out of something I DIDN'T say. It seems to be the norm on these boards, so why change!
Click to expand...


"Evidence? Really? Firstly it only references a proportion of the immigration into Britain. Secondly, It appears to make no reference to the thousands of self-employed brick layers, carpenters, plumbers etc who found themselves without work because the polish immigrants undercut the market. Many customers later found at, at their cost, why it was an unwise decision to employ a foreign and unknown worker. *It says nothing about the more significant uncontrolled immigration from third world countries* and the drain it makes on the British taxpayer."


maybe you need to learn to express yourself more clearly instead of blaming me for not understanding what you meant to express.


----------



## Colin

Ravi said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Evidence? Really? Firstly it only references a proportion of the immigration into Britain. Secondly, It appears to make no reference to the thousands of self-employed brick layers, carpenters, plumbers etc who found themselves without work because the polish immigrants undercut the market. Many customers later found at, at their cost, why it was an unwise decision to employ a foreign and unknown worker. It says nothing about the more significant uncontrolled immigration from third world countries and the drain it makes on the British taxpayer.
> 
> It's all very well for you to smugly opine your opinions based on recent news reports, but the fact remains that, not being a resident of Britain, you can only scratch the surface of the deeper knowledge required to gain a better understanding of what is really going on here.  You want some facts about how immigration has spiralled out of control under Labour and more importantly why...then read this. Something we British already knew about, but clearly you didn't.
> 
> 
> 
> And here is what Alan Johnson had to say about his OWN party's immigration policy:
> 
> 
> 
> There's an old adage...a little information is a dangerous thing. This thread proves the point!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> colin, free movement in the eu concerns citizens of the eu.
> 
> i posted that study in response to the brat's queefing (#822) about the immigration of eu citizens.
> 
> 
> you demonstrated a nice case of confirmation bias, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, well, I guess it is to be expected.
> 
> At least Colin made an effort to back up his opinion.
Click to expand...


Which is ten times more than you've done!


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## Colin

Ravi said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just heard that a lot of the looters were employed.
> 
> I guess that shoots that theory in the ass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Better late than never. I posted as much days ago when all the USMB 'experts' were saying it's all about the poor. But hey! What does the word of a local count when those who live in foreign lands know so much more than the likes of those who live here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wait, I thought you said the Poles took all the jobs? Are these employed people Polish?
Click to expand...


You're the expert. You tell me!


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## Colin

L.K.Eder said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> don't complain about the study not mentioning non eu immigration, when the study concerns immigration of eu citizens, and was posted in response to unsupported spurious bullshit concerning immigration of eu citizens.
> 
> if you read at least part of the study, you'd see criticism as well, and the limitations of the study is mentioned as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps you don't understand the English language too well, but I didn't complain about NOT mentioning EU immigration. I pointed out that the nub of the problem was UNCONTROLLED immigration! Got IT? But go ahead and make something out of something I DIDN'T say. It seems to be the norm on these boards, so why change!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Evidence? Really? Firstly it only references a proportion of the immigration into Britain. Secondly, It appears to make no reference to the thousands of self-employed brick layers, carpenters, plumbers etc who found themselves without work because the polish immigrants undercut the market. Many customers later found at, at their cost, why it was an unwise decision to employ a foreign and unknown worker. *It says nothing about the more significant uncontrolled immigration from third world countries* and the drain it makes on the British taxpayer."
> 
> 
> maybe you need to learn to express yourself more clearly instead of blaming me for not understanding what you meant to express.
Click to expand...


Maybe you need to learn how not to distort things to suit your own agenda or mood.


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## L.K.Eder

Colin said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Perhaps you don't understand the English language too well, but I didn't complain about NOT mentioning EU immigration.* I pointed out that the nub of the problem was UNCONTROLLED immigration! Got IT? But go ahead and make something out of something I DIDN'T say. It seems to be the norm on these boards, so why change!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Evidence? Really? Firstly it only references a proportion of the immigration into Britain. Secondly, It appears to make no reference to the thousands of self-employed brick layers, carpenters, plumbers etc who found themselves without work because the polish immigrants undercut the market. Many customers later found at, at their cost, why it was an unwise decision to employ a foreign and unknown worker. *It says nothing about the more significant uncontrolled immigration from third world countries* and the drain it makes on the British taxpayer."
> 
> 
> maybe you need to learn to express yourself more clearly instead of blaming me for not understanding what you meant to express.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe you need to learn how not to distort things to suit your own agenda or mood.
Click to expand...


why so pissy.

read my posts again. it is clear and unambiguously stated what i meant to convey.

you, however, are just spouting.

i bolded one of the many problems you seem to have with the english language.

then take a step back, and think about who in this thread is actually smugly opining.

i have no specific beef with you, but come at me sideways like that, you will get served.

bon appetit.


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## Ravi

What I get from this thread.

The right wing-leaning peeps blame everything on:

Liberals
Liberal policies
Blacks
Muslims
Too tolerant an immigration policy
Moral decay

In fact all the things that countries all over the world struggle with and YET NO ONE ELSE, aside from dictator led countries, IS HAVING RIOTS.


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## Colin

L.K.Eder said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Evidence? Really? Firstly it only references a proportion of the immigration into Britain. Secondly, It appears to make no reference to the thousands of self-employed brick layers, carpenters, plumbers etc who found themselves without work because the polish immigrants undercut the market. Many customers later found at, at their cost, why it was an unwise decision to employ a foreign and unknown worker. *It says nothing about the more significant uncontrolled immigration from third world countries* and the drain it makes on the British taxpayer."
> 
> 
> maybe you need to learn to express yourself more clearly instead of blaming me for not understanding what you meant to express.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you need to learn how not to distort things to suit your own agenda or mood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> why so pissy.
> 
> read my posts again. it is clear and unambiguously stated what i meant to convey.
> 
> you, however, are just spouting.
> 
> i bolded one of the many problems you seem to have with the english language.
> 
> then take a step back, and think about who in this thread is actually smugly opining.
> 
> i have no specific beef with you, but come at me sideways like that, you will get served.
> 
> bon appetit.
Click to expand...


Just responding in like terms old boy.


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## St.Blues

Ravi said:


> The US has uncontrolled immigration and we don't have riots over it.



Yeah, well brace yourself Ms. Hat.... as soon as the welfare starts to take hits and it will..
we will experience the same rioting here. I suggest you buy a few guns and learn to use them.

Blues


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## St.Blues

Ravi said:


> What I get from this thread.
> 
> The right wing-leaning peeps blame everything on:
> 
> Liberals
> Liberal policies
> Blacks
> Muslims
> Too tolerant an immigration policy
> Moral decay
> 
> In fact all the things that countries all over the world struggle with and YET NO ONE ELSE, aside from dictator led countries, IS HAVING RIOTS.



Liberalism is a total failure............


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## California Girl

Ravi said:


> What I get from this thread.
> 
> The right wing-leaning peeps blame everything on:
> 
> Liberals
> Liberal policies
> Blacks
> Muslims
> Too tolerant an immigration policy
> Moral decay
> 
> In fact all the things that countries all over the world struggle with and YET NO ONE ELSE, aside from dictator led countries, IS HAVING RIOTS.



Interesting. I've never 'blamed' liberals, but I have linked an overly generous welfare system (that's a liberal policy in the UK) to the rioting. And, surprisingly, even the Labour party recognizes that.... but, keep pretending it's not true. 

I haven't 'blamed' blacks.

I haven't 'blamed' muslims.

You have clearly demonstrated that you have no concept of Britain's immigration problems.... but the Labour party have - again... liberals recognizing their own complicity.... and yet, apparently, Ravi knows more about UK liberal policies than the very party who created those policies. 

Moral decay.... see comment above.


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## Rat in the Hat

St.Blues said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US has uncontrolled immigration and we don't have riots over it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, well brace yourself Ms. Hat.... as soon as the welfare starts to take hits and it will..
> we will experience the same rioting here. I suggest you buy a few guns and learn to use them.
> 
> Blues
Click to expand...


Just for clarification, Ravi is not Mrs Hat.

However, if my circumstances ever change...


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## Tank

Ravi said:


> The US has uncontrolled immigration and we don't have riots over it.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_ScYY__oyk&feature=related]What the Local News Doesn&#39;t Show You - YouTube[/ame]


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## Intense

Rat in the Hat said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US has uncontrolled immigration and we don't have riots over it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, well brace yourself Ms. Hat.... as soon as the welfare starts to take hits and it will..
> we will experience the same rioting here. I suggest you buy a few guns and learn to use them.
> 
> Blues
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just for clarification, Ravi is not Mrs Hat.
> 
> However, if my circumstances ever change...
Click to expand...


Just for clarification.... If your circumstances ever change.... you will find your closets and drawers filled with hats women's shoes and your stuff in cardboard boxes on the porch. Probably you will need permission to use the bathroom and the phone. Don't even ask about the computer.  I bet every time you get in the car you find the gas tank showing below empty, too.


----------



## Rat in the Hat

Intense said:


> Rat in the Hat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, well brace yourself Ms. Hat.... as soon as the welfare starts to take hits and it will..
> we will experience the same rioting here. I suggest you buy a few guns and learn to use them.
> 
> Blues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just for clarification, Ravi is not Mrs Hat.
> 
> However, if my circumstances ever change...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just for clarification.... If your circumstances ever change.... you will find your closets and drawers filled with hats women's shoes and your stuff in cardboard boxes on the porch. Probably you will need permission to use the bathroom and the phone. Don't even ask about the computer.  I bet every time you get in the car you find the gas tank showing below empty, too.
Click to expand...


So, outside of the computer, pretty much life as normal. Cool.


----------



## Intense

Ravi said:


> The US has uncontrolled immigration and we don't have riots over it.



You don't know that Ravi, and as for the future all bets are off. We have a history of rioting of all types here. Take your pick. Fortunately we have those that advocate peaceful demonstration over violence. That is a safety govern in more ways than one. Free expression does relieve the pressure.

List of incidents of civil unrest in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Colin




----------



## California Girl

Colin said:


>



He mad! Yessir, he really, really mad.


----------



## Ravi

Colin said:


>


"Who the hell left this fuzzy dildo on my podium?"


----------



## California Girl

Ravi said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Who the hell left this fuzzy dildo on my podium?"
Click to expand...






> You must spread your reputation before blah, blah, blah


----------



## marynanl

Hello to all.

At one time in our country these words where meant well.  Sometime the good intentions go astray. In today's world these words mean very little.  Yes we all would love to have happiness in our lives.  Is it possible in this day and age?   I can not say absolutely Yes.

Who would  never have thought that our country came to a halt, when the housing market fell.  Major companies begging for money help. Then it got bigger as the days,weeks, and months went on.  Banks going under, jobs lost by the millions, homeless families in a country, that has been thought of as the Land of plenty.  The pursuit of happiness is somewhere in the nether land.

We all can read, listen and understand, that the situations consuming our most inner being in the present, are worrisome.  We need to focus on the future for our children. At the rate we are going, we may default on the debt owed and China?Japan? will own us.

I pray for us to find peace/harmony/love and most of all happiness for all.


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