# Lockdowns Did Not Work



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 22, 2020)

There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
					

Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.




					www.google.com
				




This is science NOT opinion.


The most basic way to test this thesis is by direct comparison. As of 6 April, seven US states had not adopted shelter-in place orders and their stats are in line with those that did even when adjusting for population density.

Open the country!


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## Thunk (Apr 22, 2020)

So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed  football stadium?


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## Sunni Man (Apr 22, 2020)

Appears all it did was saddle the taxpayer with a couple of trillion dollars more debt.  ...


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 22, 2020)

Thunk said:


> So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed  football stadium?



You don't go outside to get mail, to get groceries, to put out the trash? Evidence shows not for everyone but for most, lockdowns don't change your odds. Don't kill the messenger.


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## Wapasha (Apr 22, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
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> Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.
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Depends on what our sheltering in place was supposed to accomplish.

If we sheltered in place:

1) So as to give modern medicine time to find a treatment,

2) To allow our hospitals to procure enough PPE and equipment, test kits,  and get supply chains built up

3) To reduce the number of people infected from the initial exposures, so that we did not overwhelm hospital staff and facilities.

Then I think the shelter in place worked to some extent. We probably allowed it to go on too long. We really need to get back to work, albeit still observing mitigation practices.

The article was correct, we allowed a select few doctors, high on hubris, to cite really bad data, and grossly exaggerate the threat, the deaths and the spread of the infection. We also allowed politicians to get high on the feeling of power, to order their citizens around like  year old toddlers, and allowed other politicians to loot the treasury.


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## JackOfNoTrades (Apr 22, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
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> Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.
> ...



Adventures in Cherry Picking..cool, I like that movie. Those red states that didn't implement those stay at home orders are experiencing their own surges right now. Look at the numbers from April 6th.
43 states now have stay-at-home orders for coronavirus. These are the 7 that don't.


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## SmokeALib (Apr 22, 2020)

This is a free country. I do what I want, when I want, and where I want. Thank God I don't live in a sanctuary leftist shithole.


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## occupied (Apr 22, 2020)

Guy thinks he's being clever. The death rate would naturally be fairly constant everywhere among positive cases. Only a disingenuous asshole would use that single factor to make such a broad declaration. Slowing the rate of spread is key.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 22, 2020)

Wapasha said:


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^^^THIS^^^


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 22, 2020)

JackOfNoTrades said:


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Right and using the population density data and running regression analysis they are still better off than the more densely populated states. How do you explain that?


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 22, 2020)

occupied said:


> Guy thinks he's being clever. The death rate would naturally be fairly constant everywhere among positive cases. Only a disingenuous asshole would use that single factor to make such a broad declaration. Slowing the rate of spread is key.


Science says otherwise.


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## TNHarley (Apr 22, 2020)

JackOfNoTrades said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
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I swear, its nothing but politics with you tunnel vision dumbfucks
YOU are whats wrong with our country. Grow up, dipshit


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## SmokeALib (Apr 22, 2020)

occupied said:


> Guy thinks he's being clever. The death rate would naturally be fairly constant everywhere among positive cases. Only a disingenuous asshole would use that single factor to make such a broad declaration. Slowing the rate of spread is key.


This disease is damn near as bad as liberalism.


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## occupied (Apr 22, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> occupied said:
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> > Guy thinks he's being clever. The death rate would naturally be fairly constant everywhere among positive cases. Only a disingenuous asshole would use that single factor to make such a broad declaration. Slowing the rate of spread is key.
> ...


You say otherwise. I'm using science to critically examine the claim which is lacking the correct data points and proper statistical analysis. There's no way to even make that deterination until it's over and all the growth curves are lined up and adjusted for the incubation period of the virus plotted against when the various lockdown orders were implemented.


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## Tijn Von Ingersleben (Apr 22, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
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> Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.
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Why anyone would believe that it would is beyond me. You can't hide from a virus...by the time you start to hide it has more than likely run it's course or is already present on everything.


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## cnm (Apr 22, 2020)




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## Tijn Von Ingersleben (Apr 22, 2020)

occupied said:


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 Herd immunity is the only way to ensure effective immunity for a population. 
Not only will a population acquire immunity for this year but as the virus mutates and reappears in a slightly different form in subsequent seasons immune systems will still have resistance.
Through quarantines and lockdowns we achieve a partial immunity which will almost certainly ensure another outbreak in the fall...which is exactly what we will have.


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## Tijn Von Ingersleben (Apr 22, 2020)

cnm said:


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This is a normal trend line as populations experience viruses for about four weeks peaking within the first two. All of this quarantine did nothing but harm if anything.


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## Thunk (Apr 22, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> You don't go outside to get mail, to get groceries, to put out the trash? Evidence shows not for everyone but for most, lockdowns don't change your odds. Don't kill the messenger.



So taking my trash can to the end of the driveway with nobody else in sight is the same as being in a packed football stadium?


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## Tijn Von Ingersleben (Apr 22, 2020)

Thunk said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
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> > You don't go outside to get mail, to get groceries, to put out the trash? Evidence shows not for everyone but for most, lockdowns don't change your odds. Don't kill the messenger.
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You do not live in a vacuum...you order food...you buy food...others in your household do as well...additionally as we resist herd immunity measures we keep the virus alive and functioning in the population at a lower rate. It will simply 'low boil' until the population at large come out and then spikes will happen.
You cannot hide from it unless you are truly in the middle of nowhere with no contact.


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## occupied (Apr 22, 2020)

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


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"Herd immunity" is the same as saying that the many inevitable deaths are acceptable losses simply because saving them is too hard.


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## Tijn Von Ingersleben (Apr 22, 2020)

occupied said:


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This is a virus that can live in the air in water droplets for thirty minutes...it can live on hard surfaces for days. You MUST interact at some level with your fellow man. You WILL come into contact with it. 
Hiding and destroying the world's economy is beyond stupid.


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## occupied (Apr 22, 2020)

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


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Do you think that chart says that?


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 22, 2020)

occupied said:


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So you agree that we don't know and yet halted the greatest economy in the world and as much as 30% could be unemployed because we don't know?


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 22, 2020)

Thunk said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
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> > You don't go outside to get mail, to get groceries, to put out the trash? Evidence shows not for everyone but for most, lockdowns don't change your odds. Don't kill the messenger.
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Packed...how many of those 75k do you interact with?


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## Tijn Von Ingersleben (Apr 22, 2020)

occupied said:


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I think thst chart shows a normal curve where they are peaking at around 30 days...leveling off and many are declining. The ones that are not are probably a result of what I have been typing about on this thread...sequestering, hiding, quarantines are flattening and spreading the curve. 
We are just prolonging the inevitable.


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## Wapasha (Apr 22, 2020)

Thunk said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
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> > You don't go outside to get mail, to get groceries, to put out the trash? Evidence shows not for everyone but for most, lockdowns don't change your odds. Don't kill the messenger.
> ...


No one, not even the sports teams owners, are talking about reopening sporting events by packing fans into stadiums, so all you did was toss out a straw dog.


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## occupied (Apr 22, 2020)

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


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It's bad to be sure but it's the only weapon we have. If they were just letting it run wild and doing nothing the civil unrest would be just as bad. Promoting order and keeping the peace is what we expect of our government so that is what they are doing. Plagues have often toppled nations when the leadership does not do enough to fight it. See "The masque of the red death" by Edgar Allen Poe for further .reflection on my comments.


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## occupied (Apr 22, 2020)

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


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It's almost like you know nothing about exponential growth.


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## Tijn Von Ingersleben (Apr 22, 2020)

occupied said:


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No it wouldn't be...this virus has been in California for months...yet respiratory illness deaths across the range are not abnormal this year. 
4% of LA County have tested positive for it (10M) ~350K people. Yet where are the mass graves?
This is all a giant hype fest. This is a Corona virus just like those who have come before. It takes the ill and the elderly..nothing special...nothing tragic.
We have been duped.


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## luchitociencia (Apr 22, 2020)

Sunni Man said:


> Appears all it did was saddle the taxpayer with a couple of trillion dollars more debt.  ...


That was the main idea since the virus reached the US. Banks found the best opportunity to "loan" trillions of dollars to "combat the invisible enemy".

In former wars the banks borrowed billions of dollars to but arms. But this virus has been the new gold mine. 

And wait, right now oil corporations will use this incredible opportunity of having people isolated and without other topic to talk but the dumb virus (Brainwashing of the Masses 101) and surely will try to attack Iran. The whole unique package that will add some more billions to the debt.  

And you will feel "safe"... ha ha ha ha


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## Tijn Von Ingersleben (Apr 22, 2020)

occupied said:


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 I read that graph...that one is telling me exactly what I am telling you...growth till 30 days and then leveling or decline.


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## Likkmee (Apr 22, 2020)




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## occupied (Apr 22, 2020)

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


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Look at it again. Most of the curves have a star where the lock-downs began.  You might notice how the nearly 45 degree upward trend begins to flatten. Every place has done something ranging from strict lock-downs to social distancing to testing and tracking cases. The effectiveness of various strategies will be discussed at length for a very long time but that's not the purpose of OPs article at all. It's to devalue the human cost of the coldly capitalist "let them die" argument of the right wing.


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## Thunk (Apr 22, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> No one, not even the sports teams owners, are talking about reopening sporting events by packing fans into stadiums, so all you did was toss out a straw dog.



You're wrong. 

The title of this thread is "LOCKDOWNS DID NOT WORK".  

The hell they didn't!  The lock downs worked better than expected...mainly because so many people cooperated and nobody thought they would (Americans are a a pesky bunch). 

Then you have simple common sense.  I have much much *MUCH* less of a chance catching a virus while sitting at home alone than I do being in a crowd (bus, train, plane, stadium, restaurant, etc.).   

And finally...it's a "STRAW MAN"...not straw dog


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## Fed Starving (Apr 22, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
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> 
> Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.
> ...



Lockdowns work to keep non-essential businesses temporarily closed.  They might not work to keep everyone where they are requested to be, but the law has the upper hand and has the power to force quarantine and social separation.  Many people might not agree this necessary but it isn't as bad as it could be and for the most part in most states people aren't much limited.


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## Thunk (Apr 22, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Packed...how many of those 75k do you interact with?



3,500 if I don't  use the shitter...7,500 if I do.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 22, 2020)

Thunk said:


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3,500? Stop it.


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## Death Angel (Apr 22, 2020)




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## Thunk (Apr 22, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


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Do you know how many people you are exposed to when you touch a door knob or a gas pump?


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## GWV5903 (Apr 22, 2020)

Why isn’t this making the news???


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 22, 2020)

Thunk said:


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Bingo. Lockdowns don’t change your odds.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 22, 2020)

GWV5903 said:


> Why isn’t this making the news???


April Fools joke. Knew the mic was hot.


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## KGB (Apr 22, 2020)

occupied said:


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no.  Any virus can be lethal to a population.  But on the lethality spectrum, this one is one the lower end by far.  It isn’t Ebola, it isn’t Marburg, it isn’t MERS or Smallpox either.  Those are virtual death sentences.  We would be absolutely fucked if any of those were in the mix.

but we can’t keep hiding under a bed & shutting down our society like this.  We have to use our brains & come up with a strategy to live with this until a vaccine or better treatment options become available.  This lockdown was to flatten the curve.  Ok we are well on our way towards doing it.  Now, we need to move forward.  That’s why we are testing for antibodies.  To see what kind of herd immunity we have.


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## Death Angel (Apr 22, 2020)

Thunk said:


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And that's why destroying the country and millions of lives is pointless. It's out tu here and it will not stop.


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## cnm (Apr 22, 2020)

First day of no new cases. Lockdowns don't work? Pffft...




_New confirmed and probable cases over time, as at 9.00 am, 23 April 2020 _
COVID-19 - current cases


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Apr 22, 2020)

Thunk said:


> So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed  football stadium?



My brother is a cop.  He, of course, is still out there on the streets 50 hours a week interacting with people.  He and several members of his squad did come down with what was presumed to be the flu back around the first of the year (though he has been wondering if they all really had COVID-19, but it allegedly wasn't here yet), but aside from that he has not been sick.  His wife has not been sick.  None of their four kids have been sick.  I've been running with him about every other day and my wife, son, and I have been over to their house once a week for dinner.  None of us have been sick.

That's not really meant to answer your question, but rather give you perspective.


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## buttercup (Apr 22, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


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No one is saying that but Pogo.  As far as I've seen. One of the guys mentioned a new study that just came out the other day, so how could it have been filmed on April 1?


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## buttercup (Apr 22, 2020)

A number of doctors have said that keeping people cooped up indoors has only prolonged this whole thing or made it worse. But of course one of the agendas is to get the whole world to take the vaccine which will make the main crooks behind this whole thing a massive fortune.

Everyone should watch this. It's coming from a very different perspective. She is Australian, a vegan and lives off grid.


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## Dr Grump (Apr 22, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
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> Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.
> ...



Working in NZ and Australia. Curve is bottoming out...

The problem is that you are driven by money, not moral fortitude...


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## Dr Grump (Apr 22, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> The article was correct, we allowed a select few doctors, high on hubris, to cite really bad data, and grossly exaggerate the threat, the deaths and the spread of the infection. We also allowed politicians to get high on the feeling of power, to order their citizens around like  year old toddlers, and allowed other politicians to loot the treasury.



I think the reaction down here - especially NZ - was excessive. Data wasn't bad or exaggerated. You have 900,000 infected over six weeks. I'd call that a pandemic.

You start to lose me when you get into the conspiracy theory nonsense.


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## Dr Grump (Apr 22, 2020)

SmokeALib said:


> This is a free country. I do what I want, when I want, and where I want. Thank God I don't live in a sanctuary leftist shithole.



It's all about me, me, me...
Loser.


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## Sun Devil 92 (Apr 22, 2020)

JackOfNoTrades said:


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North Dakota is having a surge.

Fucking funny.


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## GWV5903 (Apr 22, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


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I just watched a segment with a Stanford Professor claiming over 5.6 percent of Los Angeles County was infected with the virus and we don’t have a real disaster as the models suggest, I know no one with the virus, only stories of people I know who know someone, I don’t doubt the virus is contagious, but is it as bad as the effects it’s creating, that’s the real issue...


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 22, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


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I am still getting paid. It’s lives vs lives not lives vs money.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 22, 2020)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Thunk said:
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> > So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed  football stadium?
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I had the virus and recovered from it. Only difference between it and a bad cold for me was the rapid weight loss and complete lack of appetite. Never had a fever but wanted to sleep all the time. Like a bad hangover.


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## Natural Citizen (Apr 22, 2020)

Sunni Man said:


> Appears all it did was saddle the taxpayer with a couple of trillion dollars more debt.  ...



It's much more than a couple of trillion.


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## Deplorable Yankee (Apr 22, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
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> Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.
> ...




Oh they're workin alright


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Apr 22, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
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That is a straw man argument and a method of deflection in order to avoid having to address the evidence presented because you don’t want to accept the fact that you could possibly be wrong


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## EvilCat Breath (Apr 22, 2020)

What makes the lockdowns a curious form of dark humor is the very things that should have been locked down was mass transit!    Can you picture the "rube" on his Wyoming ranch wondering why the fool in New York doesn't want the ranch ten miles down the road to get a visit but lets the subways still run?     The bus system is rolling along packed to the gills.  

A hundred years from now historians will marvel at how civic leaders could be sooooo stupid.   Or how the fuck anyone let these fools get away with it.


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## MarathonMike (Apr 23, 2020)

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


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The shutdown approach reminds me of our approach with wildfires. Don't let the natural process work itself out, let's intervene and set ourselves up for devastating consequences. We have been around corona viruses our whole lives. Protect the old and the weak. The rest of us need to work, live, and keep the country going.


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## Fueri (Apr 23, 2020)

Swiss researchers show that COVID-19's curve broke before the shutdown; a similar result was found in Germany.









						Sind wir tatsächlich im Blindflug? - infekt.ch
					

An der Pressekonferenz vom 16.4.20 hatte Bundesrat Berset mehrmals den Begriff „Blindflug“ verwendet. Wir würden nicht genau wissen, wo wir stehen und wir müssten noch gut beobachten, wie es um den Stand der Epidemie stehe. Methoden sind verfügbar So ganz ohne Instrumente ist unser Flugzeug aber...




					infekt.ch


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## XponentialChaos (Apr 23, 2020)

I read the link.  I have some major issues with the methodology as far as I understand it.  I'll explain why.

His response variables are the number of deaths and the number of cases.  He's using the response strategy as an independent binary variable to explain the number of deaths and number of cases.  That doesn't make sense to me if I'm interpreting that correctly, and I'm pretty sure I am.  Here's the issue:

The number of deaths is one of the primary reasons states chose their Covid-19 response strategy.  The seven states that did not adopt a shelter-in-place strategy are obviously not interested in doing so _because_ they have a low death count.  So if we consider the number of deaths that occur in a state with shelter-in-place, like Michigan, against a state without shelter-in-place, like Arkansas, we would see more deaths in Michigan.  In his regression model, that is an indication that shelter-in-place doesn't work, because there are more deaths in Michigan than Arkansas.  

That makes no sense.  

Michigan is implementing shelter-in-place _because_ of the number of deaths while Arkansas is lax about this because of their lack of number of deaths. The same goes for cases.   That doesn't show whether the strategy is working so much as it indicates prior history of how badly covid-19 has affected that state.  

Furthermore, he still gets a high p-value because several states are taking proactive approaches to these strict measures despite not having the high number of cases or deaths. States like Alaska and Hawaii (not verified but implied by the words of the writer).

"As of 6 April, seven US states had not adopted shelter-in-place orders...Those seven states are Arkansas, Iowa, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Utah and Wyoming."

It would be nice if he posted the data he's using instead of asking people to request it from him.  He should post the regression model that he's generating from running these numbers as well, not just the p-values.  

Population showed up as significant in his model, which leads me to believe that I'm interpreting this correctly, that his response variables are the number of deaths and cases.  Which, again, doesn't make sense.    

That's not how I would have ran this regression model.  Looking into his background further, I noticed that he's a political scientist, not a statistician.

My $0.02.


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## Obiwan (Apr 23, 2020)

SmokeALib said:


> occupied said:
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> > Guy thinks he's being clever. The death rate would naturally be fairly constant everywhere among positive cases. Only a disingenuous asshole would use that single factor to make such a broad declaration. Slowing the rate of spread is key.
> ...


Actually, it may be worse...

According to NY, 80-85% of the people it kills don't even have it...









						After Deaths At Home Spike In NYC, Officials Plan To Count Many As COVID-19
					

Officials say a sudden upsurge in deaths at home is likely due to COVID-19 and they are planning to add many of them to New York's death toll, even without confirmation by a laboratory.




					www.npr.org
				









						U.S. COVID-19 Tests per Day with Percent of Positive Cases | ABI
					






					www.abi.org


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## SweetSue92 (Apr 23, 2020)

occupied said:


> Guy thinks he's being clever. The death rate would naturally be fairly constant everywhere among positive cases. Only a disingenuous asshole would use that single factor to make such a broad declaration. Slowing the rate of spread is key.



I got big news for ya. That "rate of spread" is about to be all busted up when these tremendous new numbers come out and we discover this virus is widespread and lots of us have already been exposed.

We're gonna love feeding you all these words one at a time then


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## SweetSue92 (Apr 23, 2020)

XponentialChaos said:


> I read the link.  I have some major issues with the methodology as far as I understand it.  I'll explain why.
> 
> His response variables are the number of deaths and the number of cases.  He's using the response strategy as an independent binary variable to explain the number of deaths and number of cases.  That doesn't make sense to me if I'm interpreting that correctly, and I'm pretty sure I am.  Here's the issue:
> 
> ...



I can tell you something about Detroit and Wayne Co. Once this virus hit those areas, no amount of shelter or no-shelter was going to help and that's the truth. In fact, to be honest, shelter might have been a problem. You have multi-generational families living in close contact and now you're forcing them all together in close quarters. Problem no one. Number two, the virus is hitting a population already in remarkably poor health, overset with high blood pressure, diabetes, obesity, respiratory problems, etc. What is a lockdown going to do about that? 

Nothing. Oh, wreck the economy, absolutely. It WILL do that. It HAS done that.


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## Nosmo King (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Thunk said:
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Interacting with a lot of people when you put out the trash do you?  Moron, it's the contact and interactions with...PEOPLE that spreads the virus, not merely appearing on the surface of the planet!  Oh, what's the use of trying to convince the irreparably stupid? You'll believe anything as long as it doesn't appear in a text book!


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## SweetSue92 (Apr 23, 2020)

Nosmo King said:


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If there's on thing Nosmo King can be counted on, it's just repeating whatever Party Line he's heard and then chastising the rest of us with it like some menopausal Karen off her meds.

"You're all Terrible People because you don't believe your Betters!!"


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## cnm (Apr 23, 2020)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


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The empirical evidence presented is that where lockdowns are properly implemented, they work. Woo hoo, no new cases for the first time.






_New confirmed and probable cases over time, as at 9.00 am, 23 April 2020_
COVID-19 - current cases


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## U2Edge (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
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> Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.
> ...



Those seven states that did not adopt stay at home policies are more rural and more isolated. Had they adopted the same policies as California and Washington State early on, its likely several of these states would have suffered no deaths at all to coronavirus. 

You want a real example about how travel bans and proper testing, contact tracing and isolation policies work, look at *TAIWAN!

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people more exposed to China than any other country in the world. John Hopkins University predicted TAIWAN would have a higher infection rate and death rate than any country in the world. Instead this is what happened thanks to TAIWAN's anti-pandemic policies:

TAIWAN total infections: 429
TAIWAN total deaths: 6

Now compare that to the United States:

UNITED STATES total infections: 849,092
UNITED STATES total deaths: 47,681*

Taiwan proves that early travel bans, testing, contact tracing, and isolation when needed works. TAIWAN successfully protected its population, while the United States remains in an ongoing national crises it has never seen before with human health and economic side effects on a massive scale. TRUMP failed and the scale of Trump's failure is reflected In the difference between the number of deaths in TAIWAN from coronavirus vs. the number of deaths in the United States from coronavirus.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Apr 23, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> ...



Where you living Edge, and let's face it you want to use COVID to get to Trump right? TDS


----------



## Fueri (Apr 23, 2020)

Protect the vulnerable, develop the herd immunity.  Only way out and has been from the beginning.










						Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach 'herd immunity' in weeks
					

Sweden went against the grain by keeping public life as unrestricted as possible when the coronavirus hit. Now, it says its strategy appears to be working.




					www.cnbc.com
				





Meanwhile we're arresting people in parks and hiding like rats and it is, of course, way more widespread than people thought, even with all of these measures here.


----------



## XponentialChaos (Apr 23, 2020)

SweetSue92 said:


> I can tell you something about Detroit and Wayne Co. Once this virus hit those areas, no amount of shelter or no-shelter was going to help and that's the truth.



Sorry, but you don't know shit.

Unsubstantiated opinions are just that.


----------



## cnm (Apr 23, 2020)

Fueri said:


> Protect the vulnerable, develop the herd immunity.  Only way out and has been from the beginning.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


At a cost to Sweden so far of 192 deaths/million population compared to the US at 144/million.
So, are you volunteering to get infected?


----------



## SweetSue92 (Apr 23, 2020)

XponentialChaos said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> > I can tell you something about Detroit and Wayne Co. Once this virus hit those areas, no amount of shelter or no-shelter was going to help and that's the truth.
> ...



So nothing to counter, just name-calling.

Fellow conservatives, we're winning.

But we knew that


----------



## XponentialChaos (Apr 23, 2020)

SweetSue92 said:


> XponentialChaos said:
> 
> 
> > SweetSue92 said:
> ...



What name did I call you?


----------



## Care4all (Apr 23, 2020)

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


> occupied said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


So True, if we had just not done a thing we would have 100,000 deaths in one month instead of 50,000 deaths, and another 100k deaths the following month, and a Hundred thousand the third month too...etc.

THEN we could have acquired herd immunity....  Why oh why didn't we do that...?


----------



## Fueri (Apr 23, 2020)

cnm said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> > Protect the vulnerable, develop the herd immunity.  Only way out and has been from the beginning.
> ...




Yes and they'll be largely done while we are still hiding and trying to stop something we cannot, while our death toll will likely be spread over a longer time period as we have multiple waves of this.

And spare me the BS leading question/false choice nonsense.  I've been working right through this with very few changes in my life and nobody, including Sweden, is advocating not taking reasonable precautions.  This is NOT an either or choice between total lockdown and slobbering all over each other at every opportunity while making no effort to slow transmission and protect the vulnerable- and never has been.

And the point is, for those too myopic to realize this, that there are other strategies out there that have been employed, and other nations that are further along the timeline than we are.   As those results start to become available it makes sense and is necessary to assess them to determine the best path forward for us.


----------



## cnm (Apr 23, 2020)

Fueri said:


> And spare me the BS leading question/false choice nonsense. I've been working right through this with very few changes in my life and nobody, including Sweden, is advocating not taking reasonable precautions.


You are, Shirley, if you insist precautions are silly to prevent inevitable herd immunity. Please spare me the equivocating bullshit where you're not happy to live with the implications of your advocacy.


----------



## cnm (Apr 23, 2020)

Fueri said:


> Yes and they'll be largely done while we are still hiding and trying to stop something we cannot, while our death toll will likely be spread over a longer time period as we have multiple waves of this.


So why not jump in and get infected? I don't understand how you can advocate that strategy yet be unwilling to take part. Do you just hope it will happen to others?

Hoho, at least Bojo had the courage of his delusions...


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> This is science NOT opinion.


Yeah, POLITICAL science, lol.

From the article:
*"As a professional political scientist, I have analysed data from the Worldometers Coronavirus project, "*

You can stop reading there.

But to continue:
*"As of 6 April, seven US states had not adopted shelter-in-place orders, instead imposing social-distancing restrictions such as banning large gatherings and mandating six-foot spacing gaps and maximum customer limits inside all retail stores. "*

This is an effective way of fighting the spread of COVID19.  The lockdowns were supposed to be for cities with a high fatality rate, like New York, where the lockdown seemed to slow the spread, unless the death count coming down was just a coincidence, but I dont think so.  The lockdown in New York and LA, for example was to flatten the curve and not overwhelm the health care system.

Why the lockdown is being applied to all counties of a state instead of only the heavily hit counties sounds like power mongering instead of science.

*"the next step of my analysis was to adjust for population, using a standard deaths-per-million metric. "*
But that does not adjust for population density, only total population. Siberia has 33 times the population of Rhode Island, but nowhere near the population density or vulnerability to COVID19.


The next section the author basically throws in the towel for his thesis in his own article.

*"The ‘p-value’ for the variable representing strategy was 0.94 when it was regressed against the deaths metric, which means there is a 94 per cent chance that any relationship between the different measures and Covid-19 deaths was the result of pure random chance.*​​*The only variable to be statistically significant in terms of cases and deaths was population (p=0.006 and 0.021 respectively). Across the US states, each increase in the population of 100,000 correlated with 1,779 additional Covid-19 cases, even with multiple other factors adjusted for. Large, densely populated areas are more likely to struggle with Covid-19, no matter what response strategy they adopt – although erring on the side of caution might make sense for global megacities such as New York and Chicago.*​
I agree with him there, and I think this should be the basis for our national Freedom Day.
*Keep Social Distancing in moderately hit areas, Lockdowns in Megalopolises that have not yet seen their death rate come down, and then there is no need for social distancing once the antibodies for the virus are found in 60% of the population and we then have 'herd immunity', I know it is actually 50%, but I think 60% is attainable before October.

But as to the title, while lockdowns in big cities are useful, I agree we can go to mere Social Distancing everywhere else.*
The delta's just dont justify destroying our economy with a longer lockdown on the whole nation.


----------



## SweetSue92 (Apr 23, 2020)

XponentialChaos said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> > XponentialChaos said:
> ...



"you don't know sh1t"

What part of what I said was wrong? That's called an ad hominem--name calling


----------



## Fueri (Apr 23, 2020)

cnm said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> > And spare me the BS leading question/false choice nonsense. I've been working right through this with very few changes in my life and nobody, including Sweden, is advocating not taking reasonable precautions.
> ...



Again, dolt, nobody says not to protect the vulnerable or take reasonable precautions to slow it so as not to overwhelm medical systems.  Not me, not Sweden, nobody.  Common sense dictates otherwise.  Now you'd like to paint utilizing common sense to shield the vulnerable and practicing reasonable measures as this immunity within the population develops as an equivocation.  Nice try Stretch Armstrong.

And I note you completely avoid the rest to the point of snipping it out of your response.  Nice avoidance of what I stated, unequivocally mind you, was my point.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> This is science NOT opinion.
> 
> 
> The most basic way to test this thesis is by direct comparison. As of 6 April, seven US states had not adopted shelter-in place orders and their stats are in line with those that did even when adjusting for population density.
> ...



Expose people to Covid-19!   Trump's re-election is in danger!


----------



## Fueri (Apr 23, 2020)

cnm said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> > Yes and they'll be largely done while we are still hiding and trying to stop something we cannot, while our death toll will likely be spread over a longer time period as we have multiple waves of this.
> ...



Why not run out and get the flu on purpose too.  As i already said, I am out working and haven't asked for special consideration to avoid doing so.

If it happens, it happens, which it likely will, and may have already.  To me.  And you as well.


----------



## cnm (Apr 23, 2020)

Fueri said:


> Again, dolt, nobody says not to protect the vulnerable or take reasonable precautions to slow it so as not to overwhelm medical systems. Not me, not Sweden, nobody.


Even though those reasonable precautions, as recommended by your medical experts, are what you're protesting about, fuckwit. Yeah right.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 23, 2020)

Thunk said:


> So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed  football stadium?


who'da thunk huh?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 23, 2020)

Thunk said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > You don't go outside to get mail, to get groceries, to put out the trash? Evidence shows not for everyone but for most, lockdowns don't change your odds. Don't kill the messenger.
> ...


how's it different?  BTW, using a mask guarantees you will touch your face.  the number one thing they tell you not to do.  it's hilarious how fking stupid you all are.


----------



## playtime (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Wapasha said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



*Spiked Magazine*


_*Has this Media Source failed a fact check?*_ *LET US KNOW HERE.*




Share:
*







RIGHT BIAS*
These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward conservative causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage conservative causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy. See all Right Bias sources.


*Overall, we rate Spiked Magazine Right Biased based on story selection and editorial positions that mostly favor the right. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to a failed a fact check as well as publishing misleading scientific information.*

*Detailed Report*

Factual Reporting: *MIXED*
Country: *United Kingdom*
World Press Freedom Rank: *UK 33/180*
[...]

*Funded by / Ownership*
_Spiked is owned by Spiked Limited, which is a company owned by Frank Furedi and Jennie Bristow. Funding has come from the Charles Koch Foundation and currently revenue is generated through donations and onsite advertising._

Spiked Magazine - Media Bias/Fact Check

*^^^ THAT ^^^*


----------



## jc456 (Apr 23, 2020)

cnm said:


>


well when tainted kits are deployed in the US, one can count on the numbers going up to say see,


----------



## jc456 (Apr 23, 2020)

cnm said:


>


so explain to me how six weeks of quarantine caused numbers to go up?  From September to March, there weren't many at all.  then stay at home orders came out and fking boom the count went up.  how is that so?


----------



## Desperado (Apr 23, 2020)

Thunk said:


> So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed  football stadium?


It should be your choice not the government's if you stay home or if you go to a football game.


----------



## playtime (Apr 23, 2020)

occupied said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > occupied said:
> ...



kinda like when azog was hawking for donny -  who was hawking hydroxycholoquine....  how did that turn out?


----------



## Desperado (Apr 23, 2020)

jc456 said:


> cnm said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


Are you that dense?   More testing, more cases


----------



## jc456 (Apr 23, 2020)

Desperado said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > cnm said:
> ...


especially using test kits with the virus already on them.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 23, 2020)

occupied said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > occupied said:
> ...


what data do you have?  you don't have one piece of data.  they have it.  they can manipulate data however they choose to manipulate the people.  you will hop in the box car when they tell you to, won't you?


----------



## SweetSue92 (Apr 23, 2020)

playtime said:


> occupied said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



Still turning out great all over the nation. It saved my aunt's life, in fact.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 23, 2020)

SweetSue92 said:


> playtime said:
> 
> 
> > occupied said:
> ...


it is the cure.  now that we have the cure, it's now time to move along with building america.


----------



## cnm (Apr 23, 2020)

jc456 said:


> well when tainted kits are deployed in the US,


Yeah? Kits developed by the IMPOTUS's administration?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 23, 2020)

cnm said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > well when tainted kits are deployed in the US,
> ...


came from China. you still don't get the fact thing.


----------



## playtime (Apr 23, 2020)

Thunk said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Thunk said:
> ...



what does he care?  he's a rail licker.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 23, 2020)

playtime said:


> Thunk said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


selfies again.


----------



## Dr Grump (Apr 23, 2020)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



I'm not here to prove anything. All I know is they put in lockdown measures and we haven't had anywhere near as many deaths per head of population as the US. Maybe there is another reason. I'm open to ideas.

If you are referring to my second paragraph, I can only go on my interactions with with Azog.


----------



## cnm (Apr 23, 2020)

jc456 said:


> came from China. you still don't get the fact thing.


You certainly haven't supplied that link thing...


----------



## playtime (Apr 23, 2020)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Thunk said:
> 
> 
> > So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed  football stadium?
> ...



that doesn't mean they weren't infected, being carriers & passing it on.


----------



## JackOfNoTrades (Apr 23, 2020)

TNHarley said:


> JackOfNoTrades said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



What manner of crack pipe are you smoking? I'm using science and facts. And the fact is, those states that open up too soon will become hot zones. Those states that didn't shut down might have populations that are less dense, but the virus is already spreading in those states. And those states haven't hit their peak yet. Honestly, are you Trump supporters just impervious to scientific fact?


----------



## cnm (Apr 23, 2020)

JackOfNoTrades said:


> Honestly, are you Trump supporters just impervious to scientific fact?


They know fake facts when someone tells them so...


----------



## playtime (Apr 23, 2020)

SweetSue92 said:


> XponentialChaos said:
> 
> 
> > SweetSue92 said:
> ...



 ^ *' So nothing to counter, just name-calling'*

like what you JUST did in yer reply to nosmo king?  
*
'Fellow conservatives, we're winning.'



*


----------



## playtime (Apr 23, 2020)

SweetSue92 said:


> playtime said:
> 
> 
> > occupied said:
> ...



lol....  seems more are stroking out bigley ... oopsie.  donny suddenly stopped hawking it - why is that?


----------



## playtime (Apr 23, 2020)

jc456 said:


> playtime said:
> 
> 
> > Thunk said:
> ...



yep, i'm sure azog takes a lot of selfies like that ...


----------



## playtime (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> 
> 
> Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.
> ...


----------



## Fueri (Apr 23, 2020)

cnm said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> > Again, dolt, nobody says not to protect the vulnerable or take reasonable precautions to slow it so as not to overwhelm medical systems. Not me, not Sweden, nobody.
> ...




Again, dumbfuck, from my earlier post, which you conveniently have removed from the conversation

"And the point is, for those too myopic to realize this, that there are other strategies out there that have been employed, and other nations that are further along the timeline than we are. As those results start to become available it makes sense and is necessary to assess them to determine the best path forward for us."

If you don't think we should be taking into account the actions of other nations and how they did or did not work so that we can assess how to best move forward here you are nothing short of a moron.  Let's not assess actual empirical results and data, because that would make too much fucking sense, and may just contradict our current beliefs.


----------



## cnm (Apr 23, 2020)

Fueri said:


> "And the point is, for those too myopic to realize this, that there are other strategies out there that have been employed, and other nations that are further along the timeline than we are. As those results start to become available it makes sense and is necessary to assess them to determine the best path forward for us."


Herd immunity, which is inevitable according to you, fuckwit. Which you are not willing to embrace. But not according to the health professionals, whose recommendations you are protesting.


----------



## JoeMoma (Apr 23, 2020)

buttercup said:


> A number of doctors have said that keeping people cooped up indoors has only prolonged this whole thing or made it worse. But of course one of the agendas is to get the whole world to take the vaccine which will make the main crooks behind this whole thing a massive fortune.
> 
> Everyone should watch this. It's coming from a very different perspective. She is Australian, a vegan and lives off grid.


Interesting video.


----------



## U2Edge (Apr 23, 2020)

Fueri said:


> Protect the vulnerable, develop the herd immunity.  Only way out and has been from the beginning.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The Herd immunity strategy would kill 2.4 million people by August 2020 in the United States. 99% of countries are not following the Herd immunity strategy. Their doing the responsible thing which is lockdown and Isolate until new cases are low enough to test, contact trace, and isolate any potential fires that flare up. 

The coronavirus pathogen is far to deadly and easily transmissible to do something like Herd immunity. That approach was not even tried in 1918 to combat the pandemic then. You the few back then that did the right thing, and the majority that pretended the virus was not a problem. 

*Sweden now has the 9th highest rate of death per capita in the world from coronavirus. Sweden is an example of what NOT to do. 

The GOLD standards for fighting this pandemic are TAIWAN and SOUTH KOREA. 

TAIWAN only has 6 deaths and 429 infections with a population of 24 million. How many people would die in TAIWAN if they followed your strategy for HERD immunity?*


----------



## Fueri (Apr 23, 2020)

cnm said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> > "And the point is, for those too myopic to realize this, that there are other strategies out there that have been employed, and other nations that are further along the timeline than we are. As those results start to become available it makes sense and is necessary to assess them to determine the best path forward for us."
> ...




Thete are plenty saying the same and have been from Day 1, including epidemiologists here- and apparently those in Denmark, duh.

If you pulled your head out of your ass for two seconds instead of keeping it stuffed up there trying to avoid breathing so as not to contract a virus you might also realize that none of these health professionals is, or would be, ignoring actual empirical data or results as they become available  In fact they've been citing the need for it as one of the critical elements to chart a path forward, you blithering fool.


----------



## U2Edge (Apr 23, 2020)

Fueri said:


> cnm said:
> 
> 
> > Fueri said:
> ...



Which country has the best results in protecting it population from coronavirus? The Answer *TAIWAN! Only 6 deaths in TAIWAN. TAIWAN is the gold standard in protecting its population. Trump's failure is measured by the number of deaths Taiwan has vs. the United States. 

Sweden has the 9th highest death rate per capita in the world from coronavirus. Why would anyone follow that example for protecting its population. There are only 8 other countries that are dying at a greater rate than Sweden from coronavirus. *


----------



## Fueri (Apr 23, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> > Protect the vulnerable, develop the herd immunity.  Only way out and has been from the beginning.
> ...




Nonsense.  Your numbers are simply wrong.  This is far more widespread than people realize, so your apparent 6% fatality rate is being proven incorrect over and over again.  It is looking to be anywhere from .1 to .3%.  It is certainly not 6.


----------



## U2Edge (Apr 23, 2020)

Fueri said:


> cnm said:
> 
> 
> > Fueri said:
> ...



Which country has done the best at protecting their population from Coronavirus? *TAIWAN! only 429 infections and 6 deaths out of a population of 24 million people. Why not follow the country that has the best results instead of the country, Sweden, with the 9th worst rate of death from this virus?*


----------



## U2Edge (Apr 23, 2020)

Fueri said:


> U2Edge said:
> 
> 
> > Fueri said:
> ...



Is it nonsense that Taiwan has only 6 deaths and 429 infections?

Is it nonsense that Sweden has the 9th highest number of deaths per capita from covid-19?

What is your evidence that proves that its more widespread than people think? How reliable is such evidence?

Based on known infections and deaths in the United States, the current rate of death of the infected is 5.6%.

But the number of deaths may be an undercount as people who die In their homes are never tested for coronavirus. About 200 people in New York City are dying in their homes every day and its suspected that the majority of them are dying from coronavirus but their deaths are not apart of the total death figures. 

In Italy the death rate is 13.4% and may be even higher. Several cities in Italy have recorded 3 to 4 times as many deaths in March/April this year from natural causes over the same time period in 2019. Its like that Covid-19 is responsible for this massive surge in deaths, most of these deaths are not being added to the official death total from Covid-19. But what else would explain a 300% increase in death in that time period over last year?


----------



## Fueri (Apr 23, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> > cnm said:
> ...



Taiwan has managed containment.  Taiwan is where Taiwan is and we are where we are.  Trying to push the toothpaste back into the tube here at this point is an exercise in futility.  

If Denmark's experiment is successful and/or a similar approach in the Netherlands is as well and as we see results in some states here, which have various little experiments going on, we need to incorporate those results into the strategy to move forward.  How that it isn't obvious I have no idea.


----------



## Fueri (Apr 23, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> > U2Edge said:
> ...






the evidence that it is more widespread than people think, or the data we are looking at shows, is everywhere FFS.  Common sense dictates it as well.  Others and myself have posted links ad nauseum on this board for crying out loud to these samplings and studies as they have come out.

but here are a few





__





						Infection Fatality Rate â€“ A Critical Missing Piece for Managing Covid-19
					






					www.virology.ws
				












						Nearly a third of 200 blood samples taken in Chelsea show exposure to coronavirus - The Boston Globe
					

A Mass. General researcher says the results point to a "raging epidemic," but may also indicate the city is further along the disease curve than some other municipalities.




					www.bostonglobe.com
				












						Testing shows hundreds of thousands in LA County may have been infected with coronavirus
					

The coronavirus outbreak in Los Angeles County is believed to have infected an estimated 28 to 55 times more people than originally thought, according to a report on Monday.




					www.foxnews.com
				








__





						Is the Coronavirus as Deadly as They Say?
					

Current estimates about the Covid-19 fatality rate may be too high by orders of magnitude, Stanford Health Policy's Eran Bendavid and Jay Bhattacharya write in this editorial published in the Wall Street Journal.




					fsi.stanford.edu


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2020)

playtime said:


> occupied said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


It works. Many hospitals worldwide use it. That study was highly flawed. Mostly old, black men, who were very ill. It would be like me giving Coach K players who never touched a basketball and then saying he sucked as a coach because he didn't win any games. It was run by a competitor who wants their own drug used to make $$$$ as Hydorxy is old and pharma cannot make as much from it. You're stupid. Do some research. You have nothing else to do all day.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2020)

playtime said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> ...


Oswlald is a rich celebrity and an idiot. I had the Virus it is not guaranteed death. Far from it. Nazis killed my people. That was guaranteed. Apples and oranges. You're an idiot.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> > Protect the vulnerable, develop the herd immunity.  Only way out and has been from the beginning.
> ...


About the same.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> > cnm said:
> ...


Because you're only delaying the inevitable. You can get the virus now or 6 months  from now.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2020)

Nosmo King said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Thunk said:
> ...


Yeah. I had the virus. Lost 15 pounds, no fever. My MD said, my symptoms were rare until they weren't as 30% experience rapid weight loss. We are learning more and more about this virus. You WILL get it. Now or later. Your choice.


----------



## XponentialChaos (Apr 23, 2020)

SweetSue92 said:


> XponentialChaos said:
> 
> 
> > SweetSue92 said:
> ...



The part where you said I called you a name.

What name did I call you?


----------



## Nosmo King (Apr 23, 2020)

SweetSue92 said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


You are promoting the death of expertise. Why? Cynicism makes people stupid! Why celebrate that?


----------



## JoeMoma (Apr 23, 2020)

The problem with "Lockdowns" is that  when the Lockdown is over, all those people are exposed so that that can and often will be infected with the virus.  A  lockdown can be good in that it can give people time to prepare their health care systems so that they are not overwhelmed.  However, being locked-down causes harm also.  If we stay "locked-down"  until a vaccine becomes available, that could be 18 moths or even forever.  So what if the world has a great depression.

Mitigation, or Lockdowns extends decreases the rate of the infection rate, but it also extends the time period of the infection period.  At some point it is time to remove the bandaid.  Is it better to remove the bandaid slowly or simply rip it off.


----------



## Wapasha (Apr 23, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> Wapasha said:
> 
> 
> > The article was correct, we allowed a select few doctors, high on hubris, to cite really bad data, and grossly exaggerate the threat, the deaths and the spread of the infection. We also allowed politicians to get high on the feeling of power, to order their citizens around like  year old toddlers, and allowed other politicians to loot the treasury.
> ...


What nonsense would that be? Everything I cited is true.


----------



## Fueri (Apr 23, 2020)

JoeMoma said:


> The problem with "Lockdowns" is that  when the Lockdown is over, all those people are exposed so that that can and often will be infected with the virus.  A  lockdown can be good in that it can give people time to prepare their health care systems so that they are not overwhelmed.  However, being locked-down causes harm also.  If we stay "locked-down"  until a vaccine becomes available, that could be 18 moths or even forever.  So what if the world has a great depression.
> 
> Mitigation, or Lockdowns extends decreases the rate of the infection rate, but it also extends the time period of the infection period.  At some point it is time to remove the bandaid.  Is it better to remove the bandaid slowly or simply rip it off.



This ^^^^









						The only way this ends: herd immunity - The Boston Globe
					

Flattening the curve was essential. But is it fueling a misconception that we can contain this disease?




					www.bostonglobe.com


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 23, 2020)

Sunni Man said:


> Appears all it did was saddle the taxpayer with a couple of trillion dollars more debt.  ...




That's not all it did......

It put 26 million people out of work and that has given the democrats a chance to win the election in November....

Death and Destruction are tools of the left.


----------



## DrLove (Apr 23, 2020)

Spiked is a RW site. Lockdowns are working.








						Are the lockdowns working?
					

Keeping people at home is slowing transmission of the virus, but policymakers face more uncomfortable choices.




					www.politico.eu


----------



## Billy_Bob (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> 
> 
> Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.
> ...


You missed the point.  We are ALL going to get this virus.  No ifs about it.  The point was to slow the spread so that the number of people who needed acute care did not overwhelm our systems.  NY almost crashed and burned, it was close.  This was never about stopping the spread dead it was about slowing the spread..


----------



## JoeMoma (Apr 23, 2020)

Billy_Bob said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> ...


So once it's determined that our systems can handle the number of people that need acute care, the lockdown should be lifted.  Perhaps lifted gradually so just to be on the safe side.


----------



## Billy_Bob (Apr 23, 2020)

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


> cnm said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


I disagree.

WE slowed the spread to those who could least afford to get it and that kept hospitalizations to a manageable level. That was the objective had we had a fast burn as Italy did it would have torn our nation apart.


----------



## Wapasha (Apr 23, 2020)

Thunk said:


> Wapasha said:
> 
> 
> > No one, not even the sports teams owners, are talking about reopening sporting events by packing fans into stadiums, so all you did was toss out a straw dog.
> ...


I have said the lock down worked, but it's purpose was served, and we now need to get back to work or else we will destroy our economy. If you think we need to lock people in their homes for another month, or ten, then I will have to disagree.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2020)

JoeMoma said:


> Billy_Bob said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


EXACTLY!


----------



## DrLove (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> playtime said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



It is guaranteed that as many as 5% of those who get the virus die. That makes it 50 times deadlier than the flu. To suggest that it wasn't that bad for you and therefore it isn't that bad period is misleading and frankly, kinda dangerous. 

*As of Wednesday, the United States had a 5.4% mortality rate based on a percentage of overall cases, according to the Johns Hopkins data.*








						Fact Check: Trump says the US coronavirus mortality rate is 'one of the lowest' in the world
					

President Trump claims the U.S. has "one of the lowest" coronavirus mortality rates in the world. Here's what the numbers say.



					www.usatoday.com


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 23, 2020)

Well, naturally, the thread title is wrong. But it seems we are not yet seeing good evidence that the lockdowns have affected the curve. This is an interesting topic that is going to require a lot more data and analysis (instead of apples to oranges comparisons between states so early on).


----------



## buttercup (Apr 23, 2020)

JoeMoma said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > A number of doctors have said that keeping people cooped up indoors has only prolonged this whole thing or made it worse. But of course one of the agendas is to get the whole world to take the vaccine which will make the main crooks behind this whole thing a massive fortune.
> ...



Yep. It's also interesting that YouTube took it down, as they've been doing with a lot of videos that pull the curtain a little too much.


----------



## cnm (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Because you're only delaying the inevitable. You can get the virus now or 6 months from now.


Fueri's not keen on getting the virus now. Funny that. It's for other people to catch.


----------



## cnm (Apr 23, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Well, naturally, the thread title is wrong. But it seems we are not yet seeing good evidence that the lockdowns have affected the curve. This is an interesting topic that is going to require a lot more data and analysis (instead of apples to oranges comparisons between states so early on).


Really?





Coronavirus tracked: the latest figures as the pandemic spreads | Free to read


----------



## miketx (Apr 23, 2020)

Thunk said:


> So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed  football stadium?


Thunk again.


----------



## DrLove (Apr 23, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Well, naturally, the thread title is wrong. But it seems we are not yet seeing good evidence that the lockdowns have affected the curve. This is an interesting topic that is going to require a lot more data and analysis (instead of apples to oranges comparisons between states so early on).



Ya good point - All the data we get is a snapshot from 2-3 weeks back. I'd still maintain that lockdowns ARE positively affecting the curve.


----------



## DrLove (Apr 23, 2020)

buttercup said:


> JoeMoma said:
> 
> 
> > buttercup said:
> ...



Suck it up Buttercup. Organize your own rally for the 12%-ers! 








						AP-NORC poll: Few Americans support easing virus protections
					

WASHINGTON (AP) — Americans remain overwhelmingly in favor of stay-at-home orders and other efforts to slow the spread of the coronavirus, a new survey finds, even as small pockets of attention-grabbing protests demanding the lifting of such restrictions emerge nationwide. The survey from The...




					apnews.com


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 23, 2020)

cnm said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Well, naturally, the thread title is wrong. But it seems we are not yet seeing good evidence that the lockdowns have affected the curve. This is an interesting topic that is going to require a lot more data and analysis (instead of apples to oranges comparisons between states so early on).
> ...


Yes really. What comment of mine were you asking about?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2020)

DrLove said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > playtime said:
> ...


It is not like the flu, I agree. I also agree that I am using myself as a barometer. Doesn't change the fact that either you get it now or later. It is 5x more contagious than the flu and there is no vaccine and IMO the vaccine is a pipe dream. Where is the HIV vaccine? Has been 40 years.


----------



## buttercup (Apr 23, 2020)

DrLove said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > JoeMoma said:
> ...



You guys are incredibly naive.  Of course they're going to come out with "polls" that claim Americans want to be locked up!  Lololol  In the deceptive times we're living in now (when propaganda is actually legal, btw) polls are often used to _form_ opinion, rather than inform.    You probably also think you can get all the facts from the mainstream media, as someone else said yesterday.  *face palm*


----------



## cnm (Apr 23, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> cnm said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...





> But it seems we are not yet seeing good evidence that the lockdowns have affected the curve.


----------



## buttercup (Apr 23, 2020)

I see cnm is another dupe.  This video shows how they're manipulating the whole thing, and somewhere in this video he shows how they can claim that the lockdowns worked, through their statistical chicanery. Which OF COURSE they're going to do.


----------



## colfax_m (Apr 23, 2020)

I looked up the guy who wrote the article. He's a political scientist, not a doctor, not an epidemiologist or anything else. His analysis is extremely simple and leaves out a host of considerations, not the least of which is the interplay between states that have lockdown orders and states that don't.

The point is, that there are a lot of people out there putting out poorly researched stuff like this. Don't grab onto something just because it tells you what you want to believe.


----------



## luchitociencia (Apr 23, 2020)

Lockdowns don't work and "stay at home" order is the most harmful step ever suggested by the government. The "stay at home" policy can turn people nuts to dangerous levels.

And I can tell about it. After 4 weeks my whole family is staying at home, yesterday, I don't know how,  I was looking at my wife and saw her as beautiful as never...

NOOOOOO!!!!!!


----------



## RoshawnMarkwees (Apr 23, 2020)

My wife and I have followed the rules and isolated and distanced ourselves from others as much as possible and we both caught corona virus in the form of a head cold anyway.
This talk of vaccine is BS, too. No one has created a vaccine or a cure for the common cold and that, too, is a corona virus.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 23, 2020)

cnm said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > cnm said:
> ...


Correct, we aren't, yet, as far as i can tell/read. The curves will invert regardless. The trick will be showing the lockdowns affected them. They may have. It makes sense to think they have. But nobody seems to be able to produce analysis yet that shows it with any certainty.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 23, 2020)

buttercup said:


> I see cnm is another dupe.  This video shows how they're manipulating the whole thing, and somewhere in this video he shows how they can claim that the lockdowns worked, through their statistical chicanery. Which OF COURSE they're going to do.


Now is not the time for you freakish spiracy nutballs to vomit your illness all over the place. Go back to denying evolution for a while.


----------



## buttercup (Apr 23, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > I see cnm is another dupe.  This video shows how they're manipulating the whole thing, and somewhere in this video he shows how they can claim that the lockdowns worked, through their statistical chicanery. Which OF COURSE they're going to do.
> ...



I actually pity you, because you seem almost proud of being the type who believes whatever the idiot box and the PTSB tell you. Because the government and msm would NEVER do anything wrong or dishonest, now would they?  

Of course in your mind, all those who don't march in lockstep with the mainstream narrative and actually ask questions and dig a little deeper are "freakish conspiracy nutballs."  Yawn. Get back to the idiot box.


----------



## DrLove (Apr 23, 2020)

buttercup said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > buttercup said:
> ...



Again - Suck it up Buttercup, and please stock up on the tin!


----------



## DrLove (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



There are positive developments. I believe in FACTS, SCIENCE, and REALITY. My fear is that you believe in limited PERSONAL experience and hunches from the Dotard. 

PS: HIV is actually contained - Here's the genius who broke the code. 

David Da-i Ho is a Taiwanese-American doctor and HIV/AIDS researcher who has made many scientific contributions to the understanding and treatment of HIV infection. He is the founding scientific director of the Aaron Diamond AIDS Research Center and the Clyde and Helen Wu Professor of Medicine at Columbia University. Wikipedia​


----------



## DrLove (Apr 23, 2020)

buttercup said:


> I see cnm is another dupe.  This video shows how they're manipulating the whole thing, and somewhere in this video he shows how they can claim that the lockdowns worked, through their statistical chicanery. Which OF COURSE they're going to do.



KEWELL - Well, you just go on enjoying your fake fucking PUTIN news mmmK?

*James Corbett* is an anarcho-capitalist YouTuber and conspiracy theorist. Seen by some to be an indie "new journalist" accused of being Russian propaganda fake news.[1][2] Others are less enamored. He claims to analyze, deconstruct, re-contextualize, and clarify Western propaganda[3] in The Corbett Report, YouTube, Global Research TV and other shows and websites such as ex-FBI whistleblower Sibel Edmonds'

Boiling Frogs Post, NewsBud, and occasional events.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2020)

DrLove said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...


Why must we bring DJT into every discussion? Sometimes your gut is your best source. Too bad it cannot be our biased media.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Well, naturally, the thread title is wrong. But it seems we are not yet seeing good evidence that the lockdowns have affected the curve. This is an interesting topic that is going to require a lot more data and analysis (instead of apples to oranges comparisons between states so early on).


LOL. An opinion may be wrong? Only in the mind of Lefitsts. You want to stay home for another 2 years? The scientists have provided a 3-phase reopening approach. You want to ignore them too?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 23, 2020)

buttercup said:


> I actually pity you, because you seem almost proud of being the type who believes whatever the idiot box and the PTSB tell you.


Oh dont worry, i know. You uneducated magical thinking worms inherently think you have outsmarted everyone and so pity everyone else. That is part of your illness. You actually think you have outsmarted the global scientific community on topics like evolution and global warming. In reality, you dummies would get laughed out of the room in educated company, the whole while telling yourself its everyone else who is crazy. Good stuff.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> An opinion may be wrong?


Your thread title is an opinion? It's not the opinion of the person in the article you shared. So i figured it was just you making an assertion from poor logic again. Instead, it's just you misrepresenting the opinion of the person in the article. Thanks for clarifying.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > An opinion may be wrong?
> ...


It is my opinion based on the post. Now when would you reopen the economy?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > I actually pity you, because you seem almost proud of being the type who believes whatever the idiot box and the PTSB tell you.
> ...


Where did you go to school? Let’s compare resumes on education. I have Never seen anyone post so much and yet say absolutely nothing.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


I dont know.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > buttercup said:
> ...


Nah, peddle your lies to someone else. I don't care where you pretend to have gone to school.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


But you criticize opinions that do give a date. That’s like me saying. NE should draft Jordan Love. You say the pick sucks and I ask so who should they take and you respond with IDK. Thanks for that.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


I do not need to pretend. You are avoiding this because you’re embarrassed by your education.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> But you criticize opinions that do give a date.


So what? You know , you grasp on logic is non existent. They dont know, either. And they are taking risks without even knowing the risks. I wouldn't have to know the date to know next week might not be a good idea.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


And you are a desperate fool trying to nurture a red herring. That's what fools do, when they get embarrassed.


----------



## playtime (Apr 23, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


You brought it up, why run from it? Coward.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > But you criticize opinions that do give a date.
> ...


Life is full of risks. Didn’t you work in risk management? Dumbass. LOL


----------



## Dr Grump (Apr 23, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> What nonsense would that be? Everything I cited is true.



looting the treasury, high on power, yadda, yadda, yadda. The high on power thing might be something with the odd politician. But looting the treasury? ppffttt..


----------



## Tijn Von Ingersleben (Apr 23, 2020)

Billy_Bob said:


> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> > cnm said:
> ...


Yeap...you prolonged the suffering...errbody still gonna get it!


----------



## Tijn Von Ingersleben (Apr 23, 2020)

DrLove said:


> It is guaranteed that as many as 5% of those who get the virus die.


"AS MANY AS"...that's not amorphous at all. 
As many as 5% of? Octogenarians? Cancer patients? Immune compromised? Clowns? Yogis?


----------



## Dr Grump (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> You WILL get it. Now or later. Your choice.



No you won't. That is not a given at all. I've had the flu once in my life. I don't know anybody in real life who has had the Coronavirus. I don't know anyone who knows anyone who has had it. 34 million yanks had the flu last year. 10% of the population. 90% didn't get it.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 23, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> No you won't. That is not a given at all.


Correct.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Life is full of risks. Didn’t you work in risk management?


Which involves...brace yourself retard....managing risk.


----------



## Dr Grump (Apr 23, 2020)

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


> Yeap...you prolonged the suffering...errbody still gonna get it!



no they're not. As mentioned by several people - and politicians around the world - it is not only about stopping the spread so people don't get infected, it's also about trying to make sure hospitals can cope with the influx. It is about NOT overwhelming the system.


----------



## Flopper (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> 
> 
> Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.
> ...


Let's see your actually comparison.  Exactly what states are you comparing and what stats are you using.


----------



## Wapasha (Apr 23, 2020)

DrLove said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > playtime said:
> ...


We do not have enough data yet to make the claim that the fatality rate for those who catch COVID-19 is 5%.  Maybe that is the death rate for people over 75 years old, with one or more comorbidity. But to say it's 5% across the board is silly.

NY state is testing the population for the antigen. About 20% of NYC population already has the antigen. That's getting close to two million New Yorkers who had the virus already, and prob didn't even know it at the time.


----------



## Wapasha (Apr 23, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> Wapasha said:
> 
> 
> > What nonsense would that be? Everything I cited is true.
> ...


What do you call it then, when Congress passes legislation to give away about $7 trillion dollars, and some members have suggested they want to crank that figure up to$10 trillion?


----------



## Death Angel (Apr 23, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


Not only silly, it's not at all true. But when have the facts ever mattered to the left


----------



## colfax_m (Apr 23, 2020)

Anyway, before claiming something “doesn’t work” it’s probably best to actually do research. For example:









						Nonpharmaceutical Measures for Pandemic Influenza in Nonhealthcare Settings—Social Distancing Measures
					

Pandemic Influenza—Social Distancing Measures




					wwwnc.cdc.gov


----------



## airplanemechanic (Apr 23, 2020)

Thunk said:


> So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed  football stadium?



How many football stadiums were packed in the 7 states that didn't lock down? I had no idea there was football in March and April, that's news to me.


----------



## cnm (Apr 23, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> But it seems we are not yet seeing good evidence that the lockdowns have affected the curve.


Lockdown implement March 26. Looks like 'good' evidence to me.






_New confirmed and probable cases over time, as at 9.00 am, 23 April 2020 _

health.govt.nz


----------



## Wapasha (Apr 23, 2020)

2aguy said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Appears all it did was saddle the taxpayer with a couple of trillion dollars more debt.  ...
> ...


When bad things happen to good people, the dems always see it as a plus for them to move their agenda forward. 

*Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC) reportedly told Democrats on a conference call that the coronavirus stimulus package is a “tremendous opportunity to restructure things to fit our vision.” *
_*
“You absolutely love to see it,” the freshman congresswoman tweeted about the price drop. “This along with record low interest rates means it’s the right time for a worker-led, mass investment in green infrastructure to save our planet.” 
*_
*“My Lord. Look at what is possible. Look at the institutional changes we can make – without us becoming a ‘socialist country,’ or any of that malarkey – that we can make to provide the opportunities to change the institutional drawbacks …” from education, all the way through to all the other things we talked about.  We have a chance to really move the ball forward in the next three or four years."*


----------



## Dr Grump (Apr 23, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Wapasha said:
> ...



Stimulating the economy. The bailouts of 2008 did the same thing and the US then had 10 years of continuous growth, which started under Obama, and now Trump takes credit for. 

What's the alternative? USA circa 1929?


----------



## Wapasha (Apr 23, 2020)

DrLove said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Well, naturally, the thread title is wrong. But it seems we are not yet seeing good evidence that the lockdowns have affected the curve. This is an interesting topic that is going to require a lot more data and analysis (instead of apples to oranges comparisons between states so early on).
> ...


But hiding from the disease does nothing for us, since if a vaccine can be created it's still 6-10 months away. We cannot lock down for that long, we'd destroy our nation, and we'd have economic devastation, and about 40% unemployment.

The people in the 40 and under age groups are reportedly the most resistant, and need to get back to work, albeit still observing mitigation protocol. The rest of the people need to be very careful, and the elderly may need to keep sheltering at home, and being careful going to buy food, etc...  But not everyone needs to keep staying locked up in home, it's just insane.

There are counties in my state that still have not had one person test positive, and yet my governor wants to extend the shelter at home, for the entire freaking state, until mid to late May.


----------



## Wapasha (Apr 23, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> Wapasha said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...


We just passed the $2+ trillion stimulus, and we lost another 4.4 million jobs. Simply tossing money from a helicopter, is not going to create jobs, not if everyone is locked up in their homes, and business owners are going bankrupt.


----------



## OldLady (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> 
> 
> Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.
> ...


Do you know how he defines "lockdown" as opposed to "social distancing?"  Because every state that didn't "lockdown" DID follow social distancing measures, which to me is pretty much the same thing.


----------



## OldLady (Apr 23, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> Thunk said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


Was it the NFL that is going to start playing to an empty stadium?  Some sport is.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2020)

OldLady said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> ...


I agree. Social Distancing and lockdowns are not the same thing.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 23, 2020)

cnm said:


> Lockdown implement March 26. Looks like 'good' evidence to me.



So what? How something "looks" is not evidence. You would have to somehow show that such a curve wouldn't have occured anyway, or would have been significantly different.

Dont get me wrong, i think it makes a difference and it makes sense that it would nake a difference. But these things are not good empirical evidence that it has.

Wishing or believing something is true does not mean it is. As we are seeing with chloroquine.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2020)

OldLady said:


> Wapasha said:
> 
> 
> > Thunk said:
> ...


NFL games start in Sept. too soon to tell.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2020)

colfax_m said:


> Anyway, before claiming something “doesn’t work” it’s probably best to actually do research. For example:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Social Distancing is not the same as a lockdown.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2020)

Flopper said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> ...


It was in the OP. Read it.


----------



## Dr Grump (Apr 23, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> We just passed the $2+ trillion stimulus, and we lost another 4.4 million jobs. Simply tossing money from a helicopter, is not going to create jobs, not if everyone is locked up in their homes, and business owners are going bankrupt.



Yeah, but it is keeping people fed and clothed. And remember that stimulus money - the vast majority of it - is going straight back out into the economy as people buy essentials.

And whose to say that the job-loss figure wouldn't be six or seven million.

And let's not forget you called is 'looting the treasury'. I take looting to mean politicians are taking the money themselves for their own gain. Simply not true.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > You WILL get it. Now or later. Your choice.
> ...


Flu is not nearly as contagious and there is a vaccine. COVID is closer to a severe cold. Know anyone with a cold? You WILL get it. Just a matter of time.


----------



## Wapasha (Apr 23, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> cnm said:
> 
> 
> > Lockdown implement March 26. Looks like 'good' evidence to me.
> ...


You are really stuck on dismissing anything anyone comments about, concerning COVID-19, unless it comes from empirical evidence. Well, we will not have empirical evidence for anything concerning this virus, for about a year.


----------



## colfax_m (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> colfax_m said:
> 
> 
> > Anyway, before claiming something “doesn’t work” it’s probably best to actually do research. For example:
> ...



Lockdown is a colloquialism, it doesn’t really have a meaning.

Any measure taken to keep people apart is a form of social distancing. The article covers many different types of measures. You should read more than the title.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > cnm said:
> ...


When you ask him when we should open the country his answer is “I dont know” but he will criticize those who give their opinions. Typical Leftist.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 23, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> You are really stuck on dismissing anything anyone comments about, concerning COVID-19, unless it comes from empirical evidence.


Only when they assert something as true without good evidence. Welcome to how science works. You can use your tea leaves or magic 8 ball, if you prefer.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2020)

colfax_m said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > colfax_m said:
> ...


I read the entire article.


----------



## colfax_m (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> colfax_m said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


If you say so.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Wapasha said:
> 
> 
> > You are really stuck on dismissing anything anyone comments about, concerning COVID-19, unless it comes from empirical evidence.
> ...


Define “good evidence”.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2020)

colfax_m said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > colfax_m said:
> ...


So


----------



## airplanemechanic (Apr 23, 2020)

I heard today a very simple and clear explanation why nobody wants to move. The first governor to open say the hair salons will be attacked viciously by the media when the first case of covid19 traced back to a hair salon is found. 

I'd say fuck it too.


----------



## Wapasha (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


We don't even know if COVID-19 Wuhan is more contagious than the seasonal flu. A lot of people have developed resistance to the seasonal flu, so they exhibit no symtms to speak of. I read somewhere that the year you were born may have some impact on this.

My point is, many people are resistant to the flu, and suffer little or no symptoms. With COVID-19 none of us have had a chance to develop an  immunity, so more of us get sick when we contract it.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Wapasha said:
> ...


In this case, empirical evidence that demonstrates effectiveness of that treatment. The same way effectiveness is determined for any drug or treatment. I didnt invent these rules. They have been around for a while.


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## colfax_m (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> colfax_m said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


As insightful as always.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


We didn’t have “good evidence” that lockdowns would prevent the spread but we cautiously did so to supposedly save lives? So if we have some above average vs good evidence to use certain treatments and or actions we should not and let people die until the above average becomes good?


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> We didn’t have “good evidence” that lockdowns would prevent the spread but we cautiously did so to supposedly save lives?


Correct. But i was referring to science based medicine, not preventative measures meant to err on the side of caution regarding the economy. Seeing the difference would involve placing a premium on just physical well being, which is medicine.


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## jc456 (Apr 23, 2020)

I haven’t seen it said yet, but Americans gave up on their own dignity what a bunch of fools. Can’t fight for your rights people died and others confronted enemies to give you. Shame on you all. You all deserve your fates


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## ABikerSailor (Apr 23, 2020)

For all you people that are saying that this virus is no worse than the flu or the common cold, well.....................you should use the current statistics and then you can figure out the percentage of mortality.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > We didn’t have “good evidence” that lockdowns would prevent the spread but we cautiously did so to supposedly save lives?
> ...


You disagree that isolation causes depression, drug abuse and alcoholism? You don’t think isolation and loss of business is damaging? That damages those who are and are not impacted by COVID, which mostly impacts those who are elderly and or unhealthy. We never did that study but just locked us all in.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> You disagree that isolation causes depression, drug abuse and alcoholism?


No, but again, a premium was put more on physical well being from serious illness. When this is all over, that will be an interesting discussion to have, based on data. 

I know you are trying very, very hard to equate the lockdown decision to the decision to just start gobbling chloroquine, but they are just fundamentally different.


----------



## Wapasha (Apr 23, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> Wapasha said:
> 
> 
> > We just passed the $2+ trillion stimulus, and we lost another 4.4 million jobs. Simply tossing money from a helicopter, is not going to create jobs, not if everyone is locked up in their homes, and business owners are going bankrupt.
> ...


My point is that substituting money earned from having a job, with stimulus cash, is not going to work. We cannot continue to ask the entire nation to hide away in their homes, and it will be okay, cuz stimulus checks are in the mail.

As I've said, people under 40 years old should be going back to work, while observing mitigation protocol. It does not make sense for a governors all over this nation to order entire states to continue sheltering at home, when their are no infections in some of their counties. 

This virus does not affect all age groups the same; providing they are healthy. The virus also has not infected all states, their cities or  counties the same. So using a blanket policy for the entire nation, or even an entire state, is not logical.

I used "looting" because some politicians were looting the treasury to benefit their special interest groups. Where the hell did it make sense to give tens of millions to the Kennedy Center? It makes it look especially silly, when the Kennedy Center went ahead and furloughed hundreds of employees after getting their money.


----------



## Wapasha (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


That's why the pot stores and liquor stores are allowed to remain open in a lot of states.


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## Christ_on_a_croissant (Apr 23, 2020)

SmokeALib said:


> This is a free country. I do what I want, when I want, and where I want


No, you don’t, tough guy


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## Dr Grump (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Flu is not nearly as contagious and there is a vaccine. COVID is closer to a severe cold. Know anyone with a cold? You WILL get it. Just a matter of time.



Flu is very contagious. Symtoms vary with the COVID-19. There are symptons like yours, which was weight loss etc. Then there are those that are just asymptomatic like a minor celeb down here. Absolutely had the virus (tested THREE times) but had no symptoms at all. Then there have been articles on at least three people who were fighting for their lives on ventilators (no underlying issues) and were sick as dogs. One said there was a 48 hour period where she was literally fighting for every breath she took.

I don't think I'll get it if it is contained.

Only certain strains of the flu are vaccinated, and even then there is only a 60 per cent chance of being protected.


----------



## Dr Grump (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> You disagree that isolation causes depression, drug abuse and alcoholism? You don’t think isolation and loss of business is damaging? That damages those who are and are not impacted by COVID, which mostly impacts those who are elderly and or unhealthy. We never did that study but just locked us all in.



The problem is Azog, your God is the almighty dollar. Some of us just aren't into it as much as you. shrug...


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## Wapasha (Apr 23, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


If you are going to dismiss everything anyone says, without empirical evidence to back them up, than you better stop making any comments about the virus or about the comments made, since anything and everything you say, including dismissing the speculations by others, will only be speculation on your part.


----------



## colfax_m (Apr 23, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> cnm said:
> 
> 
> > Lockdown implement March 26. Looks like 'good' evidence to me.
> ...



To be very literal, how something look is empirical evidence. Empirical evidence is observation. Observing the tend of cases going down qualified. Now, that may be weak or strong depending on how it’s done but it’s still empirical evidence.  

Id be cautious to say “no evidence exists” if you haven’t done an exhaustive review.


----------



## OldLady (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


So, I ask again, what is the difference?


----------



## theHawk (Apr 23, 2020)

Thunk said:


> So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed  football stadium?


No, it’s saying government mandated behavior isn’t any more effective than people being free to make their own choices on how to avoid getting the Wuhan virus.

For example if they have already had the virus, going to a game wouldn’t hurt them.


----------



## colfax_m (Apr 23, 2020)

OldLady said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > OldLady said:
> ...


“Lockdown” doesn’t have a meaning. Everything any state has done falls under the category of social distancing.


----------



## SmokeALib (Apr 23, 2020)

Christ_on_a_croissant said:


> SmokeALib said:
> 
> 
> > This is a free country. I do what I want, when I want, and where I want
> ...


Sure I do. I'm not a sheeple that bows down to media talking points or politicians. I, like most conservatives, can think and do for myself. All I need is a bow, a pole, a 3030, and some rope and I'm good.


----------



## OldLady (Apr 23, 2020)

colfax_m said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


If that's the case, the title of the article in the OP is misleading.  He seems to be arguing about a phantom.  I've asked TWICE what the difference is, and no one seems to be able to tell me.

So another cleverly worded piece of trash?


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## colfax_m (Apr 23, 2020)

OldLady said:


> colfax_m said:
> 
> 
> > OldLady said:
> ...



Probably. Vagueness can be a rhetorical defense. You can’t be argued against if no one actually knows what your argument is.


----------



## Dr Grump (Apr 23, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> My point is that substituting money earned from having a job, with stimulus cash, is not going to work. We cannot continue to ask the entire nation to hide away in their homes, and it will be okay, cuz stimulus checks are in the mail.
> 
> As I've said, people under 40 years old should be going back to work, while observing mitigation protocol. It does not make sense for a governors all over this nation to order entire states to continue sheltering at home, when their are no infections in some of their counties.
> 
> ...



One thing I do agree with you is that a lot of places (including Australia where I live, and especially NZ which is my home country) have been way over cautious. Unfortunately at times like these, you have to kowtow to the lowest common denominator - ie the dumbest person in the room. I know I'd practice social distancing, washing my hands regularly and all the other stuff. Unfortunately there are a tonne of nimrods who won't or don't. 

Did the Kennedy Center itself get the money or did the people who were furloughed? Here, the money is going directly to the people.


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## DrLove (Apr 23, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...



That is probably because in Goober County, no one has been tested.


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## DrLove (Apr 23, 2020)

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > It is guaranteed that as many as 5% of those who get the virus die.
> ...



I included a link, but Trumptards don't need no links. Whatever Professor Tingle Ingergoober Bloober.


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## DrLove (Apr 23, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



Don't like links or facts? Kewel! Carry on!


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## cnm (Apr 23, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> So what? How something "looks" is not evidence. You would have to somehow show that such a curve wouldn't have occured anyway, or would have been significantly different.


Here we are, showing what happens when the lockdown is left later and not rigorously enforced.


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## Tijn Von Ingersleben (Apr 23, 2020)

DrLove said:


> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...


I know you did...unfortunately it's fucking USA Today. Where is the study? Not a story about the study.
Doc Dipshit.
Cause I would love to know the population that exhibited a 5% mortality rate.
Probably old...probably racked with existing conditions.


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## cnm (Apr 23, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Dont get me wrong, i think it makes a difference and it makes sense that it would nake a difference. But these things are not good empirical evidence that it has.


I think we can observe the effect an early rigorous lockdown has.


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## KGB (Apr 23, 2020)

Sunni Man said:


> Appears all it did was saddle the taxpayer with a couple of trillion dollars more debt.  ...



there’s that.  I do believe it helped the medical community out, but that reasoning is fast becoming obsolete with each passing day.


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## cnm (Apr 23, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> In this case, empirical evidence that demonstrates effectiveness of that treatment. The same way effectiveness is determined for any drug or treatment. I didnt invent these rules. They have been around for a while.


And we can observe the evidence in the curves of those who locked down rigorously and early and those who did not.


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## DrLove (Apr 23, 2020)

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> ...



Translation: We can't include those OLD PEOPLE. They were gonna die anyway!
Translation of Translation: I'm a fact-adverse, heartless idiot who like my Orange Overlord, was born without the empathy gene.
Responders Note - The study was linked Goober


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## Tijn Von Ingersleben (Apr 23, 2020)

DrLove said:


> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...


Translation: Puff on pete.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 23, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > You disagree that isolation causes depression, drug abuse and alcoholism? You don’t think isolation and loss of business is damaging? That damages those who are and are not impacted by COVID, which mostly impacts those who are elderly and or unhealthy. We never did that study but just locked us all in.
> ...


Nope. It’s freedom!


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## Thunk (Apr 23, 2020)

theHawk said:


> No, it’s saying government mandated behavior isn’t any more effective than people being free to make their own choices on how to avoid getting the Wuhan virus.



Then take the matter up with your governor. 

That's who imposed the lock down.


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## Dr Grump (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Nope. It’s freedom!



So over rated...


----------



## pyetro (Apr 23, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> 
> 
> Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.
> ...


C


occupied said:


> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> > occupied said:
> ...


Then why doesn't Trump want Georgia reopened?


----------



## Flopper (Apr 23, 2020)

Thunk said:


> Wapasha said:
> 
> 
> > No one, not even the sports teams owners, are talking about reopening sporting events by packing fans into stadiums, so all you did was toss out a straw dog.
> ...


There was interesting poll which asked the question, "What is it your greatest fear of the cornovirus?" I don't remember the percentages  but the overwhelming number said, "giving the virus to my family or friends."  "Not having money to provide for my family." came in second, and "Catching the virus. came in third.  This epidemic is revealing that Americans have a strong social conscience.  They really do care about others and will make sacrifices for them.  This is why the shutdown and social distancing is working, not because of fear of being arrested.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Apr 24, 2020)

jc456 said:


> Desperado said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


Hey hey hey.  Democrats paid good money for those kits.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Apr 24, 2020)

Compared to eastern states and big cities California has had relatively few deaths.  Medical investigation revealed that we had the virus starting last fall in September or October.  Our house hold was pretty much down with a "flu" last November. It was probably the Chinese virus.  

That coupled with a population slipping into revolt caused Gay Gavin Gruesome Newsom to give up.  Hospitals have been opening up.  In the hospital my step grandson works for the tents are gone the expanded ICU is gone.   

Locking down the parks didn't work.  35 tons of sand was poured in a skate park to keep skateboarders away.  Then the dirt bikes showed up.   That worked.  The parks are open.   The Gruesome himself declared that the state would start opening up.


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## cnm (Apr 24, 2020)

The self discipline of toddlers.


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## justoffal (Apr 24, 2020)

Thunk said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > You don't go outside to get mail, to get groceries, to put out the trash? Evidence shows not for everyone but for most, lockdowns don't change your odds. Don't kill the messenger.
> ...



Yes


----------



## Billy_Bob (Apr 24, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


Current fatality rate in NY is just 0.58%.  That is expected to go lower as more testing is done.


----------



## Billy_Bob (Apr 24, 2020)

DrLove said:


> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...


Way to go moron... 

The only thing the graphing show is that the rate of infection was slowed allowing us to manage the hospitalizations. 

It is a VIRUS thus everyone is going to get it at some point.  It does not mean we do not love our seiniors.  Your false equivalency is seriously demented bull shit.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 24, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Nope. It’s freedom!
> ...


I vehemently disagree.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 24, 2020)

pyetro said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> ...


He does but in phases as Dr. Birx and Dr. Fauci recommended. Damned if he does and Damned if he doesn’t, eh? Typical Leftist you are.


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## Wapasha (Apr 24, 2020)

Billy_Bob said:


> Wapasha said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...


Are you referring to the new data that New York state has been accumulating and how many millions of people may have already caught the disease and now I have the antigen for the virus.

The press conference that I heard Governor Cuomo was saying that as much as 20% of New York City's population already caught the virus NR now now have the antigen. If those numbers hold, the mortality rate for this virus is going to plumet.


----------



## Wapasha (Apr 24, 2020)

KGB said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Appears all it did was saddle the taxpayer with a couple of trillion dollars more debt.  ...
> ...


Exactly, and I don't see how locking down States, producing another 10 million or more unemployed, and causing thousands more business to go bankrupt, and States governments themselves going bankrupt, is going to help the nation.

We could probably do almost the same thing in this shelter-in-place lockdown, if we just went out and did our business in public, as long as we observe mitigation practices.  Sheltering in-house is nothing but a mitigation practice. It does nothing to cure the virus it does nothing to end virus it does nothing but prolong the effects of the virus


----------



## Wapasha (Apr 24, 2020)

Flopper said:


> Thunk said:
> 
> 
> > Wapasha said:
> ...





Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> ...


All you need to do is get the data for deaths for  people under 30 years old,dying after being infected by COVID-19, and it's sure as hell not 5%


----------



## DOTR (Apr 24, 2020)

Thunk said:


> So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed  football stadium?



   He’s saying you have an equal chance in a locked down state as with a free state


----------



## Billy_Bob (Apr 24, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> Billy_Bob said:
> 
> 
> > Wapasha said:
> ...


It also means two out of ten people can not get sick and re-transmit it. Herd immunity is when 1/2 the population becomes immune and the virus can not rage like it did when no one had imunities. Once we reach about 25% we can slowly open up the economy and go. Once we hit about 40% we open up full bore as we wont have to worry about overwhelming our medical systems.

At this point we focus on our elderly and those with underlying problems while allowing the majority to get back to work.


----------



## Billy_Bob (Apr 24, 2020)

DOTR said:


> Thunk said:
> 
> 
> > So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed  football stadium?
> ...


You will get this virus wherever you are. The whole point of locking down was to slow how fast it spread so that our hospitals were not overwhelmed with a massive influx.  IT WORKED.  Once we hit about 25% of the populace that has had and recovered from this virus we can slowly open up until it reaches around 40-50%.  At that point you can open it totally up and run.  The lock down served it purpose, now we have to slowly return to normal as people continue to get and recover from this virus.


----------



## DOTR (Apr 24, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> ...



Moral fortitude costs money...usually other people’s.


----------



## DOTR (Apr 24, 2020)

Billy_Bob said:


> DOTR said:
> 
> 
> > Thunk said:
> ...



Everyone will be exposed to the China virus sooner or later. It will circulate from now on. Thanks China.


----------



## Wapasha (Apr 24, 2020)

Billy_Bob said:


> DOTR said:
> 
> 
> > Thunk said:
> ...


Exactly.

 Sheltering in home was not supposed to prevent you from ever getting the virus, was not supposed to do anything to control the virus, it was simply and only to reduce the initial impact we were going to have on hospitals and health care workers so that they were not overwhelmed.

 Now we begin Phase 2, which is observing mitigation practices and get on with our lives.

Obviously if you are in the age group suseptible to this virus, and or you have these comorbidities, then you're going to have to be extra careful. 

But the average American can observe mitigation practices and go about their lives until we find a vaccine.

Either we do this, or we destroy our nation from within.


----------



## KGB (Apr 24, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> KGB said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



exactly.  The idea was to not overwhelm hospitals.  Got it, but we can’t do this indefinitely either.  There’s a risk calculation here.  So far, looks like the mortality rate is in line with the flu.  So we need to start firing things back up because poverty everywhere is worse.


----------



## Billy_Bob (Apr 24, 2020)

With the NY region already at 20% they need to begin allowing movement of healthy and young people so that the numbers who gain immunity can increase. NY is in a really good position to do it the right way and be totally back in business in about two months time.

Georgia is going to be an interesting animal with the jump right to close contact businesses. It could go bad very easily or it could get them to herd immunity very fast. I am going to watch the numbers very closely.


----------



## DOTR (Apr 24, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> Billy_Bob said:
> 
> 
> > DOTR said:
> ...



   There is a group that does want to destroy the country. They are called “liberals”.


----------



## Wapasha (Apr 24, 2020)

DOTR said:


> Billy_Bob said:
> 
> 
> > DOTR said:
> ...


The scary scenario - is that it's possible we might not be able to find a working vaccine for this virus. It's also possible this virus could mutate like the seasonal flu making, vaccines even less effective.

I can't imagine what it would be like if this virus where to come back and hit us year after year, like a seasonal flu from hell. This would create a nightmare, which would eventully end up killing off just about all of our elderly population because we'd have no defense not even a vaccine.

I really hope neither of these posibilities never hapen.


----------



## Billy_Bob (Apr 24, 2020)

DOTR said:


> Wapasha said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Bob said:
> ...


Thats why they want to keep it  locked down and on the government tit..


----------



## Billy_Bob (Apr 24, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> DOTR said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Bob said:
> ...


This virus is a RNA single strand virus so IT WILL MUTATE.

The best thing we can do is set up our elderly with protections (UV light systems that kill viruses, proper nutrition, etc). Then as these things appear protect them. We can not afford to destroy ourselves. It sounds harsh and unfeeling but life is short. Do what we can and protect them (of which I am one) but you can not stop the world from turning. The alternative is the young killing themselves because they can not provide for themselves let alone their seniors.


----------



## Wapasha (Apr 24, 2020)

DOTR said:


> Wapasha said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Bob said:
> ...





DOTR said:


> Wapasha said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Bob said:
> ...


Isn't it curious that the same Democrats and left-wing news media who were screaming bloody murder about how damaging a federal government shutdown was going to be, are now cheerleading for a shutdown of the private sector?

 Even when they were screaming about the government shutdown, they weren't talking about the shutdown was going to cause 30 million unemployed and trillions added to our annual deficit. And yet here they are... cheerleading for another month with everyone being locked down, millions more unemployed, and thousands more business owners going bankrupt. Just more proof of the insaity on the left.


----------



## DOTR (Apr 24, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> DOTR said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Bob said:
> ...



its a “novel” virus right now. Humans will develop immunity to it quickly. Even if it mutates the immune system won’t be completely naive to it. So in the future everyone will have been exposed to it by let’s say age 8.

   Even right now the mortality rate is close to or less than the flu. It’s just an opportunity to advance leftist desires. All of the Democrat agenda in existence has been advanced in two ways...court order or under the guise of a crisis.


----------



## DOTR (Apr 24, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> DOTR said:
> 
> 
> > Wapasha said:
> ...



 Good catch. The media ran daily stories with government workers crying about their losses. It just depends on what agenda they have at the moment.


----------



## Wapasha (Apr 24, 2020)

DOTR said:


> Wapasha said:
> 
> 
> > DOTR said:
> ...


I read an interesting article the other day which said that people who were born after 1968 are more susceptible to the seasonal flu.

The first version of the virus, that people born before 1968 were exposed to, makes those peole more immune to the current flu. So it will be interesting if this covid-19 virus does mutate, and if it becomes seasonal,  the people born after 2020 or 2021 maybe more susceptible to this flu, once again, if it becomes seasonal, while those of us who are alive today we remain more resistant to sussessive variants.


----------



## Flopper (Apr 24, 2020)

buttercup said:


> A number of doctors have said that keeping people cooped up indoors has only prolonged this whole thing or made it worse. But of course one of the agendas is to get the whole world to take the vaccine which will make the main crooks behind this whole thing a massive fortune.
> 
> Everyone should watch this. It's coming from a very different perspective. She is Australian, a vegan and lives off grid.


That is true, at least to some extent.  Isolation of a population reduces the spread of the virus.  If you could totally isolation ever person, the virus would cease to exist because it can not continue to exist without new hosts.  Stay at home orders do not create total isolation because people have to leave their homes for various reasons and thus the virus spreads but at a slower rate.

Now, let's suppose we do the very opposite and carry on business as usually and the virus spreads rapidly until the vast majority of the people have been infected.  At an infection rate of 60% to 80% of the population, the immunity from being infected reduces the potential hosts for the virus and it will die out (herd immunity).  In the US, achieving  herd immunity would cost the lives of millions of people. 

Before modern medical science, herd immunity was often the only way of ending an epidemic. The reason we prolong the epidemic is not really to reach herd immunity but to allow time for our health system to prepare for outbreaks and for medical researchers to develop new treatments and preventive measures such as vaccines.


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## Flopper (Apr 24, 2020)

Tipsycatlover said:


> What makes the lockdowns a curious form of dark humor is the very things that should have been locked down was mass transit!    Can you picture the "rube" on his Wyoming ranch wondering why the fool in New York doesn't want the ranch ten miles down the road to get a visit but lets the subways still run?     The bus system is rolling along packed to the gills.
> 
> A hundred years from now historians will marvel at how civic leaders could be sooooo stupid.   Or how the fuck anyone let these fools get away with it.


In most places, public transit has been reduced due to lack of riders.   Without any public transit, many people in law enforcement, healthcare, and other essential services could not get to work. Lots of people depend on public transit to get their grocery store, medicine, and other medical services.


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## buttercup (Apr 24, 2020)

Flopper said:


> In the US, achieving  herd immunity would cost the lives of millions of people.








You've clearly bought into the fearmongering and lies from the crooks behind this who are using it as a pretext for numerous agendas.


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## Flopper (Apr 24, 2020)

Billy_Bob said:


> DOTR said:
> 
> 
> > Thunk said:
> ...


We might see some reduction in new cases at 25% but to stop the spread of the virus we will need an immunity of a majority of the population.   However, most of what we are calling information is nothing educated guesses.  We don't know how long immunity lasts.  It could be as short as a few months or it could be a lifetime.  We don't know what percent of the population being immune we stop the virus. We don't know of any effective treatment for Covid 19; that is unless you consider the Trump treatment, injecting yourself with disinfectants.


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## Flopper (Apr 24, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > In the US, achieving  herd immunity would cost the lives of millions of people.
> ...


Do the math. For herd immunity, 7 to 9 million deaths with no undiscovered case and 3.5 to 4.5 million with 50% of the population asymptomatic.  So yes herd immunity could certainly cost us millions of lives. In just 8 weeks we had 50,000 deaths and the country has been shutdown over half that time.


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## playtime (Apr 24, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > You disagree that isolation causes depression, drug abuse and alcoholism? You don’t think isolation and loss of business is damaging? That damages those who are and are not impacted by COVID, which mostly impacts those who are elderly and or unhealthy. We never did that study but just locked us all in.
> ...


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## Wapasha (Apr 24, 2020)

Flopper said:


> buttercup said:
> 
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> > Flopper said:
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7-9 million deaths? You are making a lot of assumptions.


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## DrLove (Apr 24, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Dr Grump said:
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Sincere question for my friend AtD:

Q: What is "Freedom" without health?
A: Precarious at best

Would you disagree?


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## DrLove (Apr 24, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> Billy_Bob said:
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SOOO .. Does "Getting on with our lives" mean going to salons, tattoo & massage parlors & restaurants at present? 
Like SERIOUS?
Even your Donald told his puppet Govs in Texas, Florida and South Dakota NOT to do that!
You suffer from Corona idiocy


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 24, 2020)

DrLove said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
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That is up to those who choose to take that risk. COVID-19 impacts a tiny percentage severely. I do not believe I should be under the same restriction as someone who is less healthy.


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## DrLove (Apr 24, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> DrLove said:
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I just tested positive for antibodies AtD. IOW I HAD it somewhere around mid January shortly after returning from Hawaii and the morning of another Vacay to San Diego mid-January which I cancelled the morning of. You should know what I hope that YOUR health pros SHOULD be telling you: 

We *do not yet know* yet whether antibodies mean that you're safe and that it won't come around to bite you again in the Fall.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 24, 2020)

DrLove said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
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That should be my choice, not the choice of some scientists who seem to be more or less guessing.


*They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. *


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## playtime (Apr 24, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> DrLove said:
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lol... coward closed off his profile.  





i'm still gonna get 'er done....  & you'll still see 'em.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 24, 2020)

playtime said:


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Only to Leftist losers! Ha ha ha...why are you checking me out loser.


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## playtime (Apr 24, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


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just giving you facts.  facts you hate & i got you got triggered enough to close it down.... it had been quite some time since anybody posted on it, 'cept for me.

i take that as a badge of honor -  thanx, snowflake!


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## DrLove (Apr 24, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


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C'mon man - You're gonna be like Trump and disregard medical and science professionals - REALLY??


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 24, 2020)

playtime said:


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What? I closed it because most people have it closed. You're so self centered. Typical Leftist.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 24, 2020)

DrLove said:


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Which should I believe and which should I disregard? They cannot seem to agree.

All agree that AIDS and Cancer kill people. Here we have disparate opinions all over the place. Why do you always bring it back to Trump? Can we not have a conversation without you bringing him into it? Don't be like that deranged drunk, playtime, and obsess over her "donny".


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## Wapasha (Apr 24, 2020)

DrLove said:


> Wapasha said:
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In some cities and towns, yes.  We have entire counties in my state which have never seem one person become infected. So yes, I think they can go back to normal, as long as they observe mitigation practices. And if there is a way for other businesses to operate, and observe mitigation practices, why can't they be allowed to do so?

Locking down the entire nation as if everywhere is NYC, and incurring another 10 million unemployed, and bankrupting the state, is not acceptable.


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## Wapasha (Apr 24, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> DrLove said:
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The TDS afflicted cannot be reasoned with, since reason has left them.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 24, 2020)

Wapasha said:


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Right? Everything comes back to Trump.

Me: It is raining outside.

Them: Trump is an asshole who doesn't care about the environment...

Me: Yeah....get some help.


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## ABikerSailor (Apr 24, 2020)

First off, for those who are saying only old people die, that is false.  You can google "youngest US covid 19 death", and you will find that it was an infant.  Just the other day, a firefighter and police officer lost their 5 year old daughter to this disease.  So no, this virus isn't "safer" in young people.

As far as saying that the percentage of deaths isn't any worse than the flu?  Remember how they taught you how to find percentages in math class?  You take the smaller number and divide it by the larger number, and the result is the percentage.  Example:  you want to find what percent of 100 that 40 is, so you divide 40 by 100, which results in a figure of 0.4, which is 40 percent.

Okay, now that the basic math lesson is over, lets see what the REAL mortality rate for this disease is......................................

Today, there were 911,000 reported cases in the USA, resulting in 51,516 deaths as of today.  Divide 911,000 by 51,516, and you end up with a result of 0.056548 (only went out to 6 digits), meaning that the mortality rate for this particular disease is 5.56 percent.

The death rate from the flu is only 0.1 percent.  Sorry, but this virus is more deadly than the flu.

Matter of fact, it's fast approaching the death toll of the Spanish flu.


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## playtime (Apr 24, 2020)

ABikerSailor said:


> First off, for those who are saying only old people die, that is false.  You can google "youngest US covid 19 death", and you will find that it was an infant.  Just the other day, a firefighter and police officer lost their 5 year old daughter to this disease.  So no, this virus isn't "safer" in young people.
> 
> As far as saying that the percentage of deaths isn't any worse than the flu?  Remember how they taught you how to find percentages in math class?  You take the smaller number and divide it by the larger number, and the result is the percentage.  Example:  you want to find what percent of 100 that 40 is, so you divide 40 by 100, which results in a figure of 0.4, which is 40 percent.
> 
> ...



& the same thing that happened with the spanish flu - where people got complacent because it seemed to have diminished during the warmer months & then came back with a vengeance when winter rolled around.


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## Dr Grump (Apr 24, 2020)

DOTR said:


> Moral fortitude costs money...usually other people’s.



It costs nothing.


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## Dr Grump (Apr 24, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Right? Everything comes back to Trump.
> 
> Me: It is raining outside.
> Them: Trump is an asshole who doesn't care about the environment...
> ...



I thought you were all about personal responsibility.
Giving exaggerated, hyperbolic examples doesn't take away from the fact that Trump is an incompetent idiot.

You need a more apt comparison.

Thing is George Bush senior was an okay president at best, but nothing like this vitriol was aimed at him compared to Trump. Why is that? Maybe, just maybe, Bush snr wasn't everybody's cup of tea, but he had peoples' respect. Ditto Ronnie Raygun. Thought he was a shit president. But I respected his opinion and what he was trying to do. Nobody on the other side respects Trump. NOBODY...


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 24, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Right? Everything comes back to Trump.
> ...


Bush was the worst president of all time. You really need to learn history. I respect Trump as did 62mil or so other people. Don’t put words in my mouth. You’re not even an American.


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## Wapasha (Apr 24, 2020)

DrLove said:


> Wapasha said:
> 
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> > Billy_Bob said:
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I don't get the tattoo parlor notion, I mean, that seems about as risky as can be. But I think businesses should be given the chance to show how they can operate while observing mitigation practices. Can a tattoo artist wear PPE sufficient enough to prevent infection? I don't know.


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## Billy_Bob (Apr 24, 2020)

Flopper said:


> Billy_Bob said:
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Actually Anything over 50% of the populace will result in no sustained wave of infections.  When you look at the data it shows that roughly 98% of the populace will not be severely affected. Now you take the route of infections and reduce them by 25% and a sustained wave becomes highly unlikely. IF we could adequately isolate and protect those who are susceptible we could go back to full blown open and there would not be a problem we could not handle. 

For those of us who are susceptible to death from this virus only the manufacture of a vaccine is the answer.  We can not allow our system to fail and have the young offing themselves because they cant feed their families let alone the elderly is unacceptable.   This is the cure being worse than the virus.


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## Billy_Bob (Apr 24, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> DrLove said:
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> > Wapasha said:
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The answer is yes. IF they do as most doctors offices do they can operate safely.


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## Wapasha (Apr 24, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> DrLove said:
> 
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> > AzogtheDefiler said:
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It's all speculation at this point, since we do not have any clinical trials completed yet. We don't know if antibodies means your immune, we don't even know if we can create a working vaccine.


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## Billy_Bob (Apr 24, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
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We still dont have a working vaccine for HIV, SARS, or MERS... The jury on this one is still out.  For someone like me, with CHF, that pretty much gives me reason to be as healthy as I can be.


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## Rambunctious (Apr 24, 2020)

If you are looking for a new business venture look into rapid disinfecting...the amusement parks and theaters and sporting venues will need those services...even grocery store carts and interior surfaces....


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 24, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
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We don’t seem to have much consensus on anything yet we shut the country down.


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## rich stacy (Apr 24, 2020)

Billy_Bob said:


> Actually Anything over 50% of the populace will result in no sustained wave of infections.  When you look at the data it shows that roughly 98% of the populace will not be severely affected. Now you take the route of infections and reduce them by 25% and a sustained wave becomes highly unlikely. IF we could adequately isolate and protect those who are susceptible we could go back to full blown open and there would not be a problem we could not handle.
> 
> For those of us who are susceptible to death from this virus only the manufacture of a vaccine is the answer.  We can not allow our system to fail and have the young offing themselves because they cant feed their families let alone the elderly is unacceptable.   This is the cure being worse than the virus.


The problem of herd immunity protecting the masses, while isolating the most susceptible overlooks that there is no way to completely isolate them, while there could be raging asymptomatic infections all around them.


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## Billy_Bob (Apr 24, 2020)

rich stacy said:


> Billy_Bob said:
> 
> 
> > Actually Anything over 50% of the populace will result in no sustained wave of infections.  When you look at the data it shows that roughly 98% of the populace will not be severely affected. Now you take the route of infections and reduce them by 25% and a sustained wave becomes highly unlikely. IF we could adequately isolate and protect those who are susceptible we could go back to full blown open and there would not be a problem we could not handle.
> ...


That is correct.  But if a vaccine is not forthcoming or possible that will be the only route left.


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## rich stacy (Apr 24, 2020)

Billy_Bob said:


> That is correct.  But if a vaccine is not forthcoming or possible that will be the only route left.


There are other solutions, but none of them would be very popular.  It would start with revamping restaurants, cutting their capacity by 1/2 to 2/3rds. Changing movie theater seating by the same ratios.  Eliminate all large events, like parades,  sports games with people in the stadiums.  concerts.   Every business model based on "pack in as many people as possible" would be completely overturned, like planes trains and buses, running at 1/3rd or even 1/10th their previous capacity.
This would of course require the per-seat price to compensate, so the idea of a flight to florida for $79 one way would become a $1,000 round trip.


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## Dr Grump (Apr 24, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Bush was the worst president of all time. You really need to learn history. I respect Trump as did 62mil or so other people. Don’t put words in my mouth. You’re not even an American.



Trump is easily the worst president of all time. Bush jnr comes in second. There are at last four or five others ahead of Bush snr.

I never said you didn't respect Trump, and said that nobody on the other side didn't. That aside, I disagree. I think a vast swathe of that 62 million didn't respect him. They just hated Hillary more.

So what if I'm not American. I have an opinion. Using that gauge, I expect you won't be commenting on any thread about any other country in the world except the US. Glad to know.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 24, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Bush was the worst president of all time. You really need to learn history. I respect Trump as did 62mil or so other people. Don’t put words in my mouth. You’re not even an American.
> ...


Because GW put us in Iraq, cost us $8trn with his stupid endless wars and we had the Great Recession because of him. If you believe Trump is worse you’re just being irrational. Trump haters have weak constitutions. They don’t hate his policies they hate his character. Cry me a river. I am so sick of our country becoming soft. The PC culture is ruining the US.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 24, 2020)

Billy_Bob said:


> rich stacy said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Bob said:
> ...


Vaccine isn’t coming. We need to man up


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## jc456 (Apr 24, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Well, naturally, the thread title is wrong. But it seems we are not yet seeing good evidence that the lockdowns have affected the curve. This is an interesting topic that is going to require a lot more data and analysis (instead of apples to oranges comparisons between states so early on).


It didn’t work, cause it wasn’t meant to. It’s a kingdom grab


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## Dr Grump (Apr 24, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
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Er my initial post was specifically relating to Bush Snr not Jnr. Go back and check it out..

I said Bush Jnr was second worst, so we are pretty close on that.

Absolutely I hate Trump's character. I've said many times on this board I hated Trump long before he became pres and was on the Apprentice.

Tell me, what exactly are his politics other than 'money good, everyone else can get fucked'.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 24, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
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I did an entire post on it. He has helped me tremendously with my business. I like his immigration policies. His border security rhetoric and he pisses off the PC Leftists who are ruining this country. You don’t see it because you don’t live here.


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## playtime (Apr 25, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


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donny has 40+ years of being a vile creature worthy of hating.


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## DrLove (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> DrLove said:
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The only "disparate opinions" I'm seeing is between the quacks like Dr Oz and Dr Phil and REAL doctors and scientists who all seem to agree. 

BOX IT IN!! - It's the ONLY way we can avoid a relapse and an even longer shutdown.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

DrLove said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
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Dr. Oz is a quack? You need to read more. A lot more doctors are disagreeing.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

playtime said:


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Ha ha ha the truth comes out. This is from a parasite who has not held a job in 40 yrs.


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## playtime (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> playtime said:
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 i have a conscience, a soul, & a thinking brain.  stellar qualities that you obviously lack & have much in common with yer chosen one.  you love him
& grasp them thar ankles for donny - because he loves you long time.

pitiful.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

playtime said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
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Bullshit. You insult Sue like she as an animal, not a human. You're a parasite and a terrible person. Your level of intellect is in the bottom 10% on this board. You bring in childish insults you use over and over again and racist verbiage toward Asian Americans. I am not Sue, I will fire back and it will trigger you. I enjoy ruining your day. Bitch.


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## playtime (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> playtime said:
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*
^^^ still triggered ^^^*


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## playtime (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> playtime said:
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why don't you start with yer chosen one & his treatment of people.

then we'll talk.  otherwise stfu.

BUT you need to clarify this load of bullshit first:

*' racist verbiage toward Asian Americans' *

wtf are you talking about, coward?


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## DrLove (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> DrLove said:
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Oh HELL yes Ozzie's a quack. And I've read plenty of his idiocy.

For the nine people left on the planet that don’t know who Dr. Oz is, here’s a recap. Mehmet Oz is a physician who, after practicing actual medicine for a few years, embarked on a life mission to get rich by giving wellness advice. The career move went over well. Time dubbed him one of 100 most influential people of the year. Esquire named him one of the 100 most influential people of the century. In a demonstration of true editorial understatement, Healthy Living proclaimed him to be one of the greatest healers of the millennium.​​But as Oz’s fame grew, it became clear that healing was, in fact, not his only priority. In 2014, a team of medical researchers released a report proving that 60% of advice given on Dr. Oz’s TV show lacked scientific basis. Soon afterward, 1,300 doctors signed an open letter calling him “a quack and a fake and a charlatan” whose “advice endangers patients.”​








						Dr. Oz Makes Millions Even Though He's Been Called A 'Charlatan' (And You Should Follow His Lead)
					

While Dr. Oz is definitely a quack, he is also a master when it comes to marketing, promotion, and sales. But is it possible to maintain your integrity while positioning yourself as the preeminent expert in your field?




					www.forbes.com
				




And yes, there are a tiny handful of doctors and pseudo-scientists who are also Trumpists and support Donnie's quackery. 99% of the rest are steeped in REAL medicine and ESTABLISHED science.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

playtime said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
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You're still here stalking, allowing for more thumbs down, which definitely triggers you.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

playtime said:


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"he loves you long time"

You did not even realize that was racist verbiage toward Asian Americans? You really are a stupid and ugly bitch.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

DrLove said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
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So that makes him a quack?

This guy a "quack" too?


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

DrLove said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
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__





						Home - Smith Center
					






					www.smithcenternj.org
				




Dr. Steven Smith a quack too? I can do this all day.


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## playtime (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> playtime said:
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not when it's a direct movie quote & means the same thing.  donny is putin's whore who loves his whore ...  that would be you ... 


long time.



























*AND bigley.*


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## playtime (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> playtime said:
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nope, i'm here to mock you.


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## DrLove (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> DrLove said:
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Oh hell, Ozzie is a QUACK'S Quack!


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## playtime (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> DrLove said:
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depends - is he related to zackary smith?


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

playtime said:


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You're failing. Just like you did at life. Par for the course for you.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

playtime said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
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Failed humor. I have broken another Leftist. Awesome. Oh and one more thumbs down for you.


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## playtime (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


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delusions of grandeur is another defective trait you & yer chosen one possess. 

#sad.


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## Billy_Bob (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> playtime said:
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You have reduced them to meme's and pointless drivle...They are flailing around on the ground like a fish out of water..


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## Billy_Bob (Apr 25, 2020)

playtime said:


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Dr. Oz is a respected heart surgon who is still practicing.  And you are a worthless internet troll.. I hope CNN is paying you well for bull shit.


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## playtime (Apr 25, 2020)

Billy_Bob said:


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## playtime (Apr 25, 2020)

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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

Billy_Bob said:


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Give the troll a thumbs down, drives her crazy and she goes off the deep end.


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## playtime (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

playtime said:


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 = YOU


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## DrLove (Apr 25, 2020)

Billy_Bob said:


> playtime said:
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Ozzie is a pseudoscience quack who makes millions hawking bogus products with no basis in scientific or medical fact.


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## DrLove (Apr 25, 2020)

playtime said:


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Ozzie's favorite tune


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## playtime (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


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> ...



* Delusion of Grandeur *

A *delusion of grandeur* is the false belief in one’s own superiority, greatness, or intelligence. People experiencing delusions of grandeur do not just have high self-esteem; instead, they believe in their own greatness and importance even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Someone might, for example, believe they are destined to be the leader of the world, despite having no leadership experience and difficulties in interpersonal relationships. Delusions of grandeur are characterized by their persistence. They are not just moments of fantasy or hopes for the future.


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## Brain357 (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> 
> 
> Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.
> ...


Trump says stay closed.  You are disagreeing with trump?


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

Brain357 said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> ...


That is not what he said and if he DID say it, then yes. He said certain businesses should not reopen. I do disagree. I disagree with him frequently.


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## Brain357 (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Brain357 said:
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Frequently yet he has your full support.  Strange world...


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> U2Edge said:
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> > Fueri said:
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Well, then your claiming that its inevitable that 5 million Americans will die from the virus and we should not do anything. 

South Korea is a country of 50 million people, but has less than 11,000 infections. Tell me, when will the other 49,989,000 people get the virus?

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people with only 429 infections. Tell me when the other 23,999,571 people will be getting the virus in TAIWAN? Realize TAIWAN often goes several days without any new infections at all. Today, the whole country had ONE new infection. 

Did everyone get the 1918 Spanish Flu? NOPE. Did the few cities that practiced social distancing and shutdown business's suffer less death and illness? YEP!

NOTHING is inevitable when it comes to a virus and societies fight against it. People can make a difference and save lives through their actions. That was the lesson of the 1918 pandemic!


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Nosmo King said:
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> > AzogtheDefiler said:
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No evidence of that at all. But please, give us of your date for when every American will have had the virus.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

JoeMoma said:


> The problem with "Lockdowns" is that  when the Lockdown is over, all those people are exposed so that that can and often will be infected with the virus.  A  lockdown can be good in that it can give people time to prepare their health care systems so that they are not overwhelmed.  However, being locked-down causes harm also.  If we stay "locked-down"  until a vaccine becomes available, that could be 18 moths or even forever.  So what if the world has a great depression.
> 
> Mitigation, or Lockdowns extends decreases the rate of the infection rate, but it also extends the time period of the infection period.  At some point it is time to remove the bandaid.  Is it better to remove the bandaid slowly or simply rip it off.



Well, tell that to TAIWAN and South Korea. Only 429 people in TAIWAN have been infected. They have contained the virus and still have schools open as well as many business's. They keep the infection rate down by testing, tracking, contact tracing and finally isolation. 

Most people in the labor force in the United States are still working because 37% can do their jobs from home and another 25% are involved in ESSENTIAL services or business. That damage to the economy is minimal and can be repaired in a few years. 

Hiroshima was nuked on August 6, 1945, but the city was completely rebuilt and had a larger population by 1958. Don't tell me being in lockdown is as bad as Hiroshima being nuked in 1945. Given that Hiroshima recovered from being nuked, parts of the economy hurt by the lockdown will have it easy by comparison when coming back.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> DrLove said:
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Failure to develop a vaccine for HIV does not prove you can't develop a vaccine for coronavirus. There are lots of vaccines that have been developed for all kinds of diseases and they work. 

TAIWAN only has 429 infections! Based on your either get it now or later theory, when do you think the other 23,999,571 people in TAIWAN will get the coronavirus? Realize their infection rate right now is about 1 person per week.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
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You only reopen the economy when:

1. New cases per day are very low, maybe only 10% of the peak.
2. TESTING and contact tracing capabilities are large enough to track new cases and isolate them from the rest of the population, preventing "community spread". 


Then you can reopen the economy, but not before then. Otherwise, you you'll have to go back into lockdown only a few months after opening up as it spreads again like wildfire. You have to be able to control this thing before you open up again. Otherwise you'll simply put public health and the economy back to where you started with the first outbreak.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
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Seems like you're still in middle school given all your irrelevant name calling.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Dr Grump said:
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There are only 429 infection in TAIWAN. So tell us, when will the rest of the population of TAIWAN, 23,999,571 people be getting this coronavirus? Realize that TAIWAN is averaging about one new infection per week.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
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40% of Americans are obese, and underlying risk factor when considering COVID-19
Nearly 50% of Americans have hypertension or pre-hypertension, another underlying risk factor when considering COVID-19

The fact is, COVID-19 is a threat to most Americans and we still don't know all the long term health effects of contracting the illness.


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## JoeMoma (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Well, tell that to TAIWAN and South Korea. Only 429 people in TAIWAN have been infected. They have contained the virus and still have schools open as well as many business's. They keep the infection rate down by testing, tracking, contact tracing and finally isolation.


So TAIWAN did not do a Lockdown?


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> KGB said:
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FALSE! lockdowns deprive the virus of its resources or oxygen. The virus is like a fire, it needs oxygen to keep burning. In this case oxygen is people. So when you isolate healthy people from those that have the virus, the virus dies. The virus needs human hosts to survive. Deprive it of human hosts, it dies. 

The damage to the economy is minimal given that 37% of the labor force can work from home and another 25% are involved in essential services. The economy will take a hit, but it can be rebuilt. Even Hiroshima that was  nuked on August 6, 1945 was fully rebuilt and had a larger population by 1958. If Hiroshima can recover from being nuked, the United States can recover from 30 million people being jobless for a few years.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

JoeMoma said:


> U2Edge said:
> 
> 
> > Well, tell that to TAIWAN and South Korea. Only 429 people in TAIWAN have been infected. They have contained the virus and still have schools open as well as many business's. They keep the infection rate down by testing, tracking, contact tracing and finally isolation.
> ...





They have done a partial lockdown, but did not need to do the full lockdown, because they instituted Travel bans and Travel restrictions on January 20, 2020 BEFORE they had any confirmed cases of coronavirus in the country. That was the main factor in keeping infections so low. Only 429 infections to date in a country of 24 million. TRUMP did not institute the same travel bans and restrictions in the United States until the last half of March. That allowed the virus to penetrate to deeply into the United States making extreme lockdowns the only response available. 

When you PREVENT penetration into the country by the virus or keep it very low with travel bans and travel restrictions, then TESTING combined with contact tracing can take care of anything that managed to leak through. But you have to have the capacity for widespread TESTING and contact tracing to isolate new cases that leak through. 

When your able to do that, then you can keep certain things open without risking community spread. 

In order to reopen the economy, we have to get to where TAIWAN was back in January in terms of new cases per day. We also have to increase our testing and contact tracing capacity. Then we can be like TAIWAN is today. But because TRUMP failed in preventing deep penetration of the virus into the American population, we have to go through a long period of lockdown to reduce the spread to a manageable level.


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## Fueri (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
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This is not an either-or scenario.

I know you want to run around with your hair perpetually on fire and think the entire nation should hide until the advent of some medical advance that frees us from bondage.

The rest of us would rather plan an actual way out of this mess.  If that is reasonable social distancing, protecting the at risk and managing spikes, more widespread antibody testing, fine and I think that's where we are headed.  

No matter what, there will be risks.  Everyone acknowledges that there is no safe path and it sucks.  States are already running out of money and we're a couple of months in.  Thats only going to get worse, not better, until we take a step back and reassess based on what we are learning here and from other countries that have adapted different strategies and adapt an approach here that gets people back to work as soon as possible while protecting the vulnerable to the greatest degree possible.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

Billy_Bob said:


> DOTR said:
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> > Thunk said:
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TAIWAN has a population of 24 million people. They only have 429 infections and 6 deaths. They average right now one new infection per week. So when do you think EVERYONE in TAIWAN will finally get the virus?


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## Dekster (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> 
> 
> Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.
> ...



Oh my city opened the second those stimulus checks hit people's bank accounts.


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## WEATHER53 (Apr 25, 2020)

Lockdown wasn’t designed to work it’s just designed to be a lockdown to test how compliant Americans will be. 80% are fully frightened buyers of death is on the doorstep.
Also, Hurt Trump and the producers of the USA(which is really dumb because that’s who provides you moochers all your free shit) and get China some money by allowing them to short the market with advanced knowledge of what was coming.

Remember when dipshit chided that a justice would be hit hard and not see it coming? Kinda odd how that came true for  everyone


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## Billy_Bob (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Billy_Bob said:
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I'm betting they have far more infections than is being reported. Taiwan is still pretty much locked down so it will spread very slowly.  Everything is being censored by China so getting the truth will not happen.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

Fueri said:


> U2Edge said:
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I don't think  you realize how much of the population in the United States is vulnerable. 40% of the U.S. population is obese. Nearly 50% have hypertension or pre-hypertension which is another underlying risk factor. 

The lockdown economic damage is minimal compared to the death and destruction that would be caused by letting the virus run rampant. There is NO MIDDLEGROUND! The virus is like a FIRE, it needs oxygen to survive. The oxygen in this case is PEOPLE. You kill this thing by keeping people ISOLATED from each other. 

You can lockdown for 3 years or 5 years if needed, the economic damage would be minimal and repairable compared to say being NUKED. Hiroshima was nuked on August 6, 1945, but the city was fully rebuilt by 1958 and had a larger population in 1958 than in 1945. 

The economic damage is bad, but its certainly not as bad as what Hiroshima went through. The economic damage can be repaired. But you can't bring someone back to life who has died from covid-19. 

In terms of protecting the vulnerable, we have already failed to protect old people in nursing homes. The loss of life in nursing homes has been terrible. You risk killing more vulnerable people by reopening and will only bring another lockdown within a couple of months. 

The vast majority of Americans support the lockdown. Most Americans are also not going to suddenly become customers at these non-essential business's you want to reopen. Consumers will not come out to spend until it is SAFE. So opening your business won't solve the economic problem. In fact, it may just put people further in the hole. The cost of opening up but getting no customers for business would be a WORSE situation than staying locked down.


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## DOTR (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Billy_Bob said:
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Every person on earth will eventually get it. It’s part of the environment now...if what they are saying is true.









						First coronavirus deaths reported in indigenous communities in the Amazon
					

“COVID-19 has fertile terrain to spread rapidly among the populations that live in Amazonia,” says president of prominent Brazilian rights group.




					www.nationalgeographic.com


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

Billy_Bob said:


> U2Edge said:
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TAIWAN is an independent country and ally of the United States. It is not subservient to CHINA in any way. TAIWAN is a democracy and took smart steps in the beginning to prevent infections. TAIWAN has the BEST anti-pandemic team in the world. Schools in TAIWAN are still open.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

DOTR said:


> U2Edge said:
> 
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> > Billy_Bob said:
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Did everyone get the 1918 pandemic? NOPE

TAIWAN only has 429 infections. They have 24 million people and average 1 new infection per week. At that rate, in 100 years, less than 10,000 people in TAIWAN will get the infection. Over 99% of people in TAIWAN will live their entire lives without getting this virus.


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## Fueri (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Fueri said:
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Sure, lets lockdown for 3-5 years.

Totally feasible, and your supporting argument is that a city rebuilt after an atomic bomb detonation.

I honestly have nothing to say to that that wouldn't be so downright dickish that your ancestors would be insulted, so I think I'll pass.  Go right ahead and believe that if you'd like.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> DrLove said:
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> > AzogtheDefiler said:
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We decide as a country together what is safe and legal. Your freedom ends where my begins. We don't tolerate law breakers like David Koresh and Timothy McVeigh who take the law into their own hands and try to define FREEDOM their way and only their way.


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## Billy_Bob (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Only 429 infections to date in a country of 24 million.


These numbers can not be verified.  Taiwan is not recognized to be a country by China and everything coming out of Taiwan is approved by Chinese censors.  Given their populace they should have, at minimum, 300,000 cases and deaths into 10,000's as other countries in the region do.  What they are reporting, though China, is very unrealistic. 

As for Trump not closing the US down, had he done that without even a death to justify it would have been suicide. Trump was skewered by Biden, Pelosie, Schumer, Coumo, Deblasio, among many others.  They were encouraging everyone to get out and have fun... All was well...   But even with what the democrat idiots did the majority of the nation did not burn up with this virus only the cities that were led by democrats and piss poor leadership did.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

Fueri said:


> U2Edge said:
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Look at Germany and Japan in 1945. Nearly every city destroyed, millions dead. Yet, both countries recovered from those tragedies by 1960. 

Is the devastation of 3 years under lockdown get you to the place where Germany and Japan were in the Summer of 1945? Not even close. 

37% of the labor force is able to work from home. 25% of the labor force is engaged in essential services. So a little over 60% of the labor force is still at work under this lockdown.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

Billy_Bob said:


> U2Edge said:
> 
> 
> > Only 429 infections to date in a country of 24 million.
> ...



Sorry, but CHINA has no control over TAIWAN. TAIWAN has an advanced military, over 300,000 troops, with advanced combat aircraft, tanks, surface ships, Submarines, and ballistic missiles. They don't take any shit from China at all. They are a FREE DEMOCRACY and CHINA has no more control over TAIWAN than they do over TEXAS. *THIS IS NOT HONG KONG. TAIWAN is an independent state and functions as an independent state, regardless of China's claims on TAIWAN. China can't censor ANYTHING coming out of TAIWAN.

In fact, it was TAIWAN's intelligence service's that were able to found out what was going on in China with the virus and why TAIWAN was so early in instituting travel bans and travel restrictions. *


The most accurate and quality performance in fighting this pandemic has happened in TAIWAN. Every country in the world should follow TAIWAN's example.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

Billy_Bob said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Bob said:
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The economic damage from any lockdown is minimal. It can be repaired. But what you can't do, is bring someone back to life who has physically died of covid-19.


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## sparky (Apr 25, 2020)

This entire lockdown premise is myopic 

an '_effin' flea_ in the HC community knows there is more than one way to break the cycle of infection

~S~


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## Billy_Bob (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Billy_Bob said:
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And that's why Tawains ports have chinese ships and thier telecommunications are routed through china..... RIGHTTTTTTTTTTTTT  You do that and become a servent of China...  Go for it... Idiot!


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Dr Grump said:
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Total expenditure on Iraq and Afghanistan up to 2020 is 1.7 Trillion dollars. Every year it has been a fraction of the total defense budget and has declined rapidly over the past 5 years. In terms of total defense spending per year as a percentage of GDP, the United States spent more on defense during the peacetime of the 1980s than it has from 2000 to 2020. In the 1980s total defense spending averaged 6% of GDP. From 2000 through 2020, it has only averaged 3% to 4% of GDP.


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## Fueri (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Fueri said:
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Sure, let's truck along with a higher unemployment rate than the great depression for 3-5 years.  It'll be fine.

The UN is already warning that hundreds of thousands of children may die THIS YEAR because of the economic downturn.  Lets extend to 5 and see how many we can rack up, cause Hiroshima rebuilt.  M'kay.

I don't know where you come up with this silly crap, but, again believe it if you like.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

Billy_Bob said:


> U2Edge said:
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TAIWAN is 100 miles from mainland China and conducts its trade and travel independently of China. If any of China's warships dared to enter one of Taiwan's harbors they would be sunk. Commercial trade is conducted, just as it is in Los Angeles with Chinese business's, but TAIWAN is just as independent of TAIWAN as California is.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Fueri said:
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Isolated for how long? 5 years? There would be anarchy. 5 years LMAO!!!! You are medically insane. Economic damage is devastating not "bad". If old people are in nursing homes how many years do they have left to live? Link that "vast" majority support the lockdown and will that be the case if it lasts five years.

Start a new thread with a 5-year lockdown and see how many on this board agree with you. Living in isolation is not living, it is a pseudo prison sentence. You want to punish 99% to save 1%. Crazy. Why would you get "no" customers? I bet restaurants and bars would be jammed.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

Fueri said:


> U2Edge said:
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Do you even understand what happened to Germany and Japan in World War II? Do you understand where both countries were at in the summer of 1945. If Germany and Japan can survive and rebuild from the state they were in, in 1945, a United States lockdown where 60% of the population is still working will be a picnic by comparison. 

You can repair the economic damage. You can't bring someone back to life who has physically died of covid-19. Most Americans understand that and that's why most Americans agree with ME, rather than YOU.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Fueri said:
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Not the same. People were free to live and innovate. Sports were abundant and concerts. Family gatherings, etc. You want to shut all that down. That is extreme crazy talk to save those who are fat and unhealthy. Why can they not stay isolated and allow the rest of us to live?


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Fueri said:
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I do and people weren't locked down. They were living and rebuilding. And it wasn't global economic damage. What you propose is anarchy. The fact that you do not see that is crazy. Link that most Americans want a 5-year lock down. LOL.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> U2Edge said:
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Most people on this board are Trumpers who would continue supporting Trump if he raped a teenage girl on live TV. 

The United States is the wealthiest country in the world and can take the hit, in order to save lives. People are not going to go to movies, concerts, Church, bars, nightclubs, sporting events, if they feel it is not SAFE and will get them sick or cost them their lives. 

The only way out of this pandemic is lockdown until new cases are low enough to be managed through contact tracing. Or a vaccine is finally developed. Until then, you can open your business if you want, but the consumer is not going to give you any business.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


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#1) Bullshit. People will go. You won't because you're a coward. Open it up and see what happens. 
#2) Wealthiest but for FIVE YEARS of no work or sports or concerts or movies, you will have a revolt.
#3) Vaccine. LOL why don't we shut the country down every flu season? 30-50k die annually then. This was overblown.
#4) The consumer will. This does not impact young people the way it impacts older people. 

If you're saying people won't go anyway then open it up and see what happens. Start a thread that you want a FIVE YEAR lockdown and see if even one person agrees. Do you have a job or are you a student (I suspect) who lives with their parents?


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> U2Edge said:
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40% of the American population is obese. Then there are those who are not obese who have other conditions. Bottom line, most of the population is NOT SAFE!

People can still live an innovate from home. In fact, 37% of the labor force is able to do their current job without leaving their house. Another 25% are engaged in "Essential Services". For the 1/3 of the labor force that is not working, they can be paid to stay at home, just like the government paid 1/3 of the labor force in the 1940s to go overseas and kill Germans and Japs. 

Lockdown is necessary. The damage done is repairable. Innovation is actually happening more rapidly right now than at any time in the past 20 years. Bars, nightclubs, Church, concerts, sporting events, will have to wait maybe a few years while this passes on. All those things will eventually return though. The economy will evolve and change during this time as well. As a society, we will most likely be better off once we get through this pandemic.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


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#1) Link that most is not safe. LOL. 94% of deaths are to those who had at least one underlying condition.

#2) Really? Barber shops, gyms, NBA, NFL, NCAA sports, NHL, PGA, MLB --- you want to shut it all down for 5 years. Taxation would decline significantly and no more police and or fire. No more movies, sitcoms, etc. Concerts. You basically end the world to save a few people who would die anyway.

#3) Lockdown is necessary not to overwhelm the healthcare system. We have built up enough capacity to handle it. 

#4) Your lack of logic is comical. I'll start the thread so people can mock you.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
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Show one model that illustrates death of 5 million LOL. The highest total was 2.2 million.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> LOL. 94% of deaths are to those who had at least one underlying condition.


Yep, a real knee slapper. Asshole.


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## Fueri (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Fueri said:
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If you think most Americans think we can, or should, do this for 3-5 years you're crazier than I thought. 

The government threw a few bucks around to keep people afloat in the near term to minimize near term effect and they've minimized blowback as a result, and most people are not feeling the pain-yet. The government cannot do that for 3-5 years. 

We'll see what "most americans" think in 6 months when the recession deepens, more people lose their jobs, even those that can work at home, when they're getting tossed out of their homes and realize that we havent stopped this anyhow.

Your analysis is so utterly flawed and without any consideration of secondary consequences or how this would unfold over that type of timespan that 'absurd' doesn't even come close.

Chaos, poverty and starvation will consume major portions if the globe effecting tens, if not hundreds, of millions of people.  It is already happening 2-3 months in. You clearly have a pretty loose grip on reality if you think this won't get worse

Believe what you want, again.  Honestly I don't care what your deranged logic is telling you, but I do know that it isn't even logic. 

Hiroshima did it.  Countries rebuilt.  Lets do that again, but on purpose.  Good grief.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> U2Edge said:
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1. Well, Georgia is the test case. Lets see how many people are at restaurants, bars, movie theaters, concerts, churches, and sporting events over the next several weeks. We'll know soon enough how much business is being done in "reopened Georgia". 

2. 37% of the labor force can do their jobs without leaving their house. Another 25% are engaged in essential services and are still on the job. Its only about 1/3 of the labor force that is not at work. The government can pay them to stay home just as they paid the 1/3 of the labor force to go overseas and kill German and Japs in  World War II. 

3. We don't shut the country because of seasonal flu, because we have a vaccine that can prevent it from killing people. The problem is that only 50% of the country gets their vaccine shots. If everyone did, you could reduce seasonal flu deaths by 90%. Seasonal flu is less deadly and less transmissible than coronavirus. Seasonal Flu and coronavirus are not comparable at all. 

4. Anyone with an underlying health condition can be impacted by the disease. If they are not impacted by the disease, they can help spread the disease and allow to kill other people. The coronavirus is like a FIRE, it needs oxygen to survive. In this case, that oxygen comes from un-isolated people. 

Georgia is already following your experiment of opening up. We'll see how many concerts, sporting events, packed bars, clubs, and other places they have over the next month.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
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> 
> > LOL. 94% of deaths are to those who had at least one underlying condition.
> ...


Facts don't care about your feelings, snowflake.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

Fueri said:


> U2Edge said:
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He is batshit crazy. My guess a college dropout living with relatives.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


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#1) Let's see. I bet people will flock to bars and restaurants and movies.

#2) 37%....oooo so 3.7 out of 10 people. That is fucking terrible. What do you do for work? I can do my job remotely but not nearly as well as when I am out and about.

#3) Vaccine only protects 45% of people. What about the other 55%? And still 30-50k die annually.

#4) Then those people may remain isolated. No one is forcing those at risk and or scared to go out. 

You want to close the NFL, NHL, MLB, NBA and NCAA sports for 5 years!!! LOL


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

Fueri said:


> U2Edge said:
> 
> 
> > Fueri said:
> ...



Damn right on purpose. A purpose that saves MILLIONS OF PEOPLE'S LIVES. About 1/3 of the workforce is not working. About the same number that were drafted during World War II and sent overseas to kill Germans and Japs. If the government can send 1/3 of the workforce overseas to kill Germans and Japs in the 1940s, in can pay 1/3 of the workforce to STAY HOME in the 2020s. 

Fact, is, most people support what I believe doing and its what 99% of governments around the world are doing. Most people don't support what you believe doing and 99% of governments are not following what you think should be done.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> > U2Edge said:
> ...


You would be killing millions if you forced isolation for FIVE YEARS!!! Again why do we not isolate during every flu season? NO ONE SUPPORTS A FIVE YEAR LOCKDOWN. Sans you. Since you're insane.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...


Yeah it was a mistake to remain in Afghanistan. Should have blown it up and left. You care about lives you claim but not about soldiers overseas fighting other peoples wars. Hypocrite much?


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Facts don't care about your feelings


How would you know? You claim you are immune, and chloroquine works. Enjoy fantasyland....


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Facts don't care about your feelings
> ...


Both are facts. You live in fear. Coward.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


Hahaha...see? Poor little idiot is willing to embarrass himself for Dear Leader....


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> > U2Edge said:
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Thread is open. Go and vote for your 5 year lockdown. LOL

Dumbass.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Fueri said:
> 
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> > U2Edge said:
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You're a dumbass









						Tens of thousands descend on beaches amid Southern California heat wave
					

Lifeguards in Huntington and Newport Beach say more than 50,000 people flocked to their beaches Friday.




					www.cbsnews.com


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


If Trump said shut down for the rest of they year, I would never vote for him. I care about me. Not you, coward. Your answer was "I don't know". You don't know much. You're an idiot.


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## Aletheia4u (Apr 25, 2020)

See The Video Youtube Banned Of California Doctors’ Exposing COVID-19 Hoax
					

Full 4/22/2020 press conference in Bakersfield California with Doctors Dan Erickson and Artin Massihi




					banned.video


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## Fueri (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Fueri said:
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In the very near term they support it, again, because they've been thrown a near term bone to keep them afloat.  Let's gauge that when you let them know THEY are also on the list to lose their jobs and everything they've worked their entire lives for and ending up in the bread line when that gravy train runs out, and then extrapolate that out 3-5 years when the finacial system has collapsed, demand has collapsed further and those with jobs are in the minoruty and even those people are taking pay cuts and unable to keep themselves afloat.

Let's toss the millions dead from starvation and thrown into poverty and maybe a war or some good old ethnic cleansing breaks out as millions more are starving and we'll see what that plan looks like at that point.

Countries and states are already reopening areas and, as people realize it can be done, it will continue.  Thank heavens most of the world can do simple math and realize that despite the risks, we have to get our economies going again.

Carry on, as I'm sure you will.  We'll continue to disagree, I have no doubt, so we're just going in circles at this point I think.  Why you pulled me back into this discussion in any case I have no idea.  If you thought you had something new with this Hiroshima epiphany you were sadly mistaken.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

Fueri said:


> U2Edge said:
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They don't support it.









						Tens of thousands descend on beaches amid Southern California heat wave
					

Lifeguards in Huntington and Newport Beach say more than 50,000 people flocked to their beaches Friday.




					www.cbsnews.com


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## Dr Grump (Apr 25, 2020)

[QUOTE="U2Edge, post: 24534513, member: 39692".
[/QUOTE]

40% of Americans are obese, and underlying risk factor when considering COVID-19
Nearly 50% of Americans have hypertension or pre-hypertension, another underlying risk factor when considering COVID-19

The fact is, COVID-19 is a threat to most Americans and we still don't know all the long term health effects of contracting the illness.
[/QUOTE]


The problem with Azog, the almightly dollar is his king. He doesn't care who dies. He wants the country opened back up because money is more important to him than the health of some. And to put it bluntly, he gives the impression - and it is only impression - that if fat people with hypertension die, why's it his fault? They should have lead better lifestyles....shrug..


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## WEATHER53 (Apr 25, 2020)

Freedom >health obsessions

Are any hospital admissions nowdays anything other than Covid?
Are any deaths attributable to anything other than Covid?
Both answers appear
to be No or Rarely.


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## Dana7360 (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> 
> 
> Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.
> ...





You do understand that for it to be a correct study it would have to be done when the virus problem is over don't you?

You do understand that taking figures in the middle of the situation isn't solid science and isn't the way any reputable scientist would do things don't you?

When this is over all of the data will be available and then that study can happen.

However, my state has been shutdown. Our cases are decreasing. Same with NY. While states that aren't shut down are seeing an increase in cases. 

I didn't click your ridiculous link. I'm sure it goes to a far right radical extremist conservative hate site that has nothing to do with intelligent and reputable science or scientists. 

If you don't understand how reputable and honest studies are done, don't show all of cyberspace just how down right moronic you are. Just keep it to yourself. It gets old seeing you show all of cyberspace what a total moron you are.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

Dana7360 said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> ...


Take out NYC and then tell me about your case studies.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> U2Edge said:
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1. 40% of Americans are obese. That is JUST ONE underlying condition that puts people at greater risk for complications from covid-19. If you understand math, you'll realize more than 50% of Americans are at risk. 17% of the U.S. population, 56 million Americans, are age 65 and over. 

2. You shut non-essential business down until the number of new cases is low enough to contain through contact tracing OR you develop a vaccine. IF that is 2 years or 3 years, you do what you have to do, because the pathogen threatens the health of everyone and threatens the economy too. Consumers won't be buying and spending time at these non-essential business's if they feel its not safe. No one wants to risk getting sick or dying just to go to a bar or football game. 

3. Most of the people employed in these jobs at gyms, barber shops, sports venues don't make enough money to even pay federal tax. In any event they only account for 1/3 of the workforce. During World War II, the United States sent 1/3 of the labor force overseas to kill Germans and Japs for years. We can pay people to stay in their homes to win the war against coronavirus. In addition, during this lockdown, 60% of the labor force is still working, because 37% can work from home and 25% work in essential services. Your keeping 1/3 of the labor force off the job to save the lives of millions of people. Its more than worth and is the only way back to a healthy economy as well. 

4. The lockdown is about limiting the spread of the virus so it can eventually be contained through contact tracing methods, or a vaccine is finally developed. Naturally you don't want the healthcare system to be overwhelmed, but the primary goal is defeating the pandemic, not just dealing with it. 

5. Well, I guess that means your still in the 8th grade. Most 8th graders would not even engage in such behavior.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
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1) and? Not one expert model has the death rate above 2.2mil. You’re spinning your wheels.

2) Take out NYC and this virus is a typical flu. NYC handled this poorly. Why? We don’t know.

3) Lack of business acumen. People who own gyms and barber shops do very well. Take a business class. Your WW2 comparison is stupid.

4) Why would you limit a spread of a virus in Utah where they have fewer than 1k cases? Country can open up sans NYC.

5) I wish. It would mean I was very young. You don’t know much about the world, have zero business acumen and don’t understand math. Take an online business class since you’re home.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> U2Edge said:
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Georgia is starting to open up. We'll know by June how well business did under these conditions. 

37% of people being able to do their job from home is amazing. You then add in the 20 to 25% who work in essential services outside the home and you have over 60% of the labor force working. 

Vaccine's protect the vast majority of people. The 40 thousand people that die annually from seasonal flu in most cases never got the flu shot. If everyone got the flu shot you could reduce seasonal flu deaths by 90%. 

The economy will only fully re-open when the CONSUMER feels SAFE. The CONSUMER decides whether a business survives or not.


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## Flopper (Apr 25, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > buttercup said:
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I was assuming 60% to 80% infection rate is required to make the herd immune, our efforts to isolate people from each other is not very effective, and the number of asymptomatic cases are close to the low estimate.   However, as Trump might say, I have a hunch it will be closer to a million because I believe the isolation steps being taken by businesses and social distancing will work fairly well, even if we all go back to work.

I think most people are thinking in much to short a term with this virus.  I don't believe we will attain a sufficient high level of immunity to knock out the virus, with or without a vaccine for at least 3 years probably longer.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> U2Edge said:
> 
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> > Fueri said:
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Seasonal flu can be overcome with the flu shot. Its less deadly, and less transmissible than coronavirus. Those three reasons are why we don't lock down for seasonal flu. 

People will support the lockdown as long as it takes to make the environment safe for business. As long as the environment is NOT SAFE for business as usual, people will stay home regardless of who opens up.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > U2Edge said:
> ...


Your lack of business acumen shows again. I can Do my job from home but not nearly as effectively. How do we do home appraisals? How do we do business appraisals? Usually you meet face to face to gauge aspects that are critical in M&A. How do kids play sports virtually? How do kids learn public speaking virtually? How do we get virtual haircuts? How do we have virtual weddings? You don’t know anything about life and are wasting my time. You’re the most uneducated person on this board and that is saying a lot.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
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Flu shots are 45% effective. 99% of COVID patients have mild cold symptoms or no symptoms. You’re such a coward.


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## Dana7360 (Apr 25, 2020)

JimBowie1958 said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > This is science NOT opinion.
> ...





LOL. I'm rolling in laughter here. 

Thank you. I knew it was someone or some organization that had no idea what they were doing and didn't have any real science background.

I didn't bother to click the link because I knew it would be a waste of time.

Wow the OP sure likes to show all of cyberspace what a total moron it is.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> U2Edge said:
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> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



1. Its not just one expert model, its most models done for most countries around the world which is why lockdown is the strategy rather than going for herd immunity. Most health experts on pandemics support the lockdowns, both in this country and in 99% of countries on the planet. 

2. NYC is just the first to be hit more heavily by coronavirus due to it being a the worlds largest travel hub and one of the most densely populated areas in the world. Had Trump closed the borders and banned all foreign travel in January like Taiwan did, we wouldn't be in this mess. The rest of the country which have less coronavirus cases benefit from being less traveled, having less density, and less cases at the time most lockdowns were put in place. 

3. People who own gyms and barber shops do well, but most people who work at gyms and barber shops don't make enough money to pay federal tax. As far as World War II, its just an example of both terrible devastation  as well as transformation of the economy and mobilizing it to do something complete different. The comparison is solid even if you don't understand it. 

4. It only takes one person to infect and kill thousands without proper testing, contact tracing and isolation of the infected and potentially infected. You can only open up and area if the number of new cases is small enough to manage through testing, contact tracing and isolation of known cases and people who are potentially infected. Without those tools to deal with the pandemic, a 1,000 cases can turn into 100,000 cases in days or weeks. 

5. More 8th grade rubbish. If your an adult, act like one and discuss the topic and not other posters.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

Dana7360 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


Sigh... you’re a failed accountant.
Stop pretending you’re a SME on the COVID-19


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## Dana7360 (Apr 25, 2020)

playtime said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Wapasha said:
> ...





LOL. I'm rolling in laughter here.

Thank you.

The koch foundation. I knew it was from far right extremist site.

These people love to show all of cyberspace just what downright morons they are on a daily basis.

I used to try to be polite to these morons but they are killing people with their moronic ideas and lies. It's not funny. People are dying.

They are the absolutely the most stupid people I've ever encountered in my life.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> U2Edge said:
> 
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> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



The effectiveness rate in terms of getting sick from flu is sometimes as low as 45%. But when it comes to preventing death from seasonal flu, the effectiveness is well above 90%. Right now, 5% of people who infected with Covid-19 die. At least 20% are hospitalized. 

The name calling is not mature or adult behavior, and only detracts from your point of view.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
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> > U2Edge said:
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1) We are talking about the US. Show one model where more than 1% of the population dies.

2) LAX is huge and they have a fraction of the cases? Tokyo does too. How do you explain that?

3) So you want to close every barber shop and gym? How about hair salons? My wife pays $250 per haircut and such. Her hair dresser easily cleared $150k per yr. Again you show your lack of business acumen.

4) Kill 1000s LOL. Same is true for the Flu. Why don’t we social distance and lockdown every flu season?


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> U2Edge said:
> 
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> > Fueri said:
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You're behaving like a child.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

Fueri said:


> U2Edge said:
> 
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> > Fueri said:
> ...



Sorry, but your in the minority in terms of what to do. My examples and Comparisons to World War II and what can be done or sound and historically accurate. Trump will be defeated in November and the Democrats will keep the House and take back the Senate. Then finally the U.S. government and U.S. policy can get back on a sound footing where SCIENCE and the SCIENCE of dealing with pandemics is how we decide what to do, rather than foolish and unsubstantiated ideas about the cost of keeping non-essential business closed down.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
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You post like a child. We have 15 deaths per 100kn people. The more infected the greater and faster the herd immunity. You do not possess any business, mathematical or scientific acumen. You live on emotion. You’re a moron. Educate yourself and then get back to me. You keep bringing up WW2. You do realize that we could have sat home and not lost any soldiers instead we stormed the beaches of Normandy. We are in a war let us out and develop herd immunity. Those feeling unsafe may stay locked down. Problem solved. The more infected the better.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> > U2Edge said:
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Just because you keep saying that doesn’t make it so. I dedicated a thread to this and it makes you look stupid.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> > U2Edge said:
> ...







__





						Reopen the Economy
					

I believe we need to reopen ASAP. We know the risks. Barbershops, gyms, restaurants, hotels, etc. are dying. We don't close the economy during every flu season we should not close it now. The brief shutdown has allowed our hospitals to be ready for the virus. We have ventilators, masks and...



					www.usmessageboard.com
				




Feel free to opine


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## XponentialChaos (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> 5) I wish. It would mean I was very young. You don’t know much about the world, have zero business acumen and don’t understand math. Take an online business class since you’re home.



Which part of his math is incorrect?  Be specific please.

We can argue what should or shouldn't be done, but math isn't debatable, or at least shouldn't be.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> % of COVID patients have mild cold symptoms or no symptoms.


Well you just pulled that right out of yer ass....


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

XponentialChaos said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > 5) I wish. It would mean I was very young. You don’t know much about the world, have zero business acumen and don’t understand math. Take an online business class since you’re home.
> ...


The part where not one scientist or modeler predicted a 1% death rate and that we should be locked down for 5 yrs. 

Right now we have 15 deaths for every 100k people living in the US. Drops to 9 if you take out NYC.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > % of COVID patients have mild cold symptoms or no symptoms.
> ...


Look it up cupcake. Right now we have 15 deaths for every 100k people. Take out NYC and it’s 9. You just keep hiding under that bed.





__





						Reopen the Economy
					

I believe we need to reopen ASAP. We know the risks. Barbershops, gyms, restaurants, hotels, etc. are dying. We don't close the economy during every flu season we should not close it now. The brief shutdown has allowed our hospitals to be ready for the virus. We have ventilators, masks and...



					www.usmessageboard.com
				




feel free to opine here


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## KGB (Apr 25, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Wapasha said:
> 
> 
> > KGB said:
> ...



Tell that to those 30 million people.  The last time we had that many out of work was the Great Depression.


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## KGB (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> U2Edge said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



dude, these lefties are morons.  You are arguing with yourself.  Trying to talk sense to them is like arguing altruism with a pissed off rhino...


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## XponentialChaos (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> 4) Kill 1000s LOL. Same is true for the Flu. Why don’t we social distance and lockdown every flu season?



You're still trying to compare this to the flu? 

Flu season wipes out an average of 1,330 people in New Jersey each year.  Covid-19 killed more than that in New Jersey in the last 5 days.

The reason for the different reaction between flu and coronavirus is obviously due to the differences in potential death rates.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

XponentialChaos said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > 4) Kill 1000s LOL. Same is true for the Flu. Why don’t we social distance and lockdown every flu season?
> ...


Typical flu season 30-50k die. Take out NYC, which is an outlier we have the same for this. 94% had at least one underlying condition. Keep those at risk home and open it up for the rest of us. Not my fault some people are weak. I had COVID-19. Flu is much worse.


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## XponentialChaos (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> XponentialChaos said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



16.4 deaths for every 100k by my calculations.  A week ago it was 12 deaths for every 100k.  

Those numbers keep going up.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

XponentialChaos said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > XponentialChaos said:
> ...


I used 50 and 330. If it is 100 it is still tiny. Sucks but tiny. 99,900 should not suffer to save 100. Cold but true.


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## XponentialChaos (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> XponentialChaos said:
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> > AzogtheDefiler said:
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There are 8 states that are already beyond their 2018 death total for the flu.  Mind you, that flu totals are calculated over an entire year and our covid-19 deaths have mostly come in in the last month.  It's not a good comparison.  Covid-19 is way more dangerous.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

XponentialChaos said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > XponentialChaos said:
> ...


Flu season is dead by Spring. Why? Because we develop herd immunity. Of those deaths how many were really old and unhealthy and likely dying anyway? I had this and the flu is worse.


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## Eric Arthur Blair (Apr 25, 2020)

We are prolonging our agony by staying locked down. Georgia and Oklahoma have broken the log jam.
Hopefully sanity will return to this country soon.


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## XponentialChaos (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> XponentialChaos said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



As of right now, deaths are 54,256.  Not 50,000.  

Might seem small, but my point is that it's growing rapidly.  8.5% increase in a day.  A week ago there were 39,331 deaths.  It's a 38% increase since then.

What _should_ be done about it, and who should suffer, is an opinion.


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## toobfreak (Apr 25, 2020)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Thunk said:
> 
> 
> > So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed  football stadium?
> ...


A little contrast:  I remember my mother telling me of back when her family lived through the Spanish Flu (a real pandemic).  Two of my aunts came down with it and were delirious with high fever and barely pulled through.  One was actually never quite normal the rest of her life.  A third aunt died of it. She was 15 at the time.  That was just ONE home.  THAT is a pandemic.


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## Marion Morrison (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> 
> 
> Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.
> ...


The lockdowns did exactly what they were designed to do.

Disrupt the economy and put people out of work.
Also disrupt the food supply, thereby making things predicted in the Bible come true.


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## XponentialChaos (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> XponentialChaos said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



Probably because of the weather.  Hopefully the same happens with this thing.

You have anecdotal evidence based on your own personal experience.  Waaaayyy more people die from this than the flu in highly dense places.


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## XponentialChaos (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Flu season is dead by Spring. Why? Because we develop herd immunity.



Just curious.  How many deaths do you think we will hit once we develop herd immunity?


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

XponentialChaos said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > XponentialChaos said:
> ...


And my point is if it reaches 100k it is still a pittance and we need to reopen the economy.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

XponentialChaos said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > XponentialChaos said:
> ...


And again of those how many are very old and very ill already. Many deaths taking place in nursing homes for instance.


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## Dana7360 (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Dana7360 said:
> 
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> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

Dana7360 said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
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> > Dana7360 said:
> ...


Except I do. They predicted 220k deaths and we may reach 65k? Take our NYC the big outlier and it’s closer to 45k.


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## XponentialChaos (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> And again of those how many are very old and very ill already. Many deaths taking place in nursing homes for instance.



Obviously most of them are old and sick and/or have underlying health conditions.  As does much of our population. 

You keep repeating this point.  Not trying to project here, but their lives still have value.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

XponentialChaos said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > And again of those how many are very old and very ill already. Many deaths taking place in nursing homes for instance.
> ...


And so do those whose have been severely interrupted and who have lost their life savings and businesses. Therein lies the point. Isolate those at risk and let the rest of us live.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

XponentialChaos said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > And again of those how many are very old and very ill already. Many deaths taking place in nursing homes for instance.
> ...


Feel free to opine here





__





						Reopen the Economy
					

All you righties disagree with trump but still give him your undying support.  Strange world.    Not strange at all.    President Trump realizes that a lot of people have been affected by the Liberal Panic Mongering about the virus and he's working to alleviate people's concerns.   I think the...



					www.usmessageboard.com


----------



## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> U2Edge said:
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1. Any model that predicts deaths beyond August of 2020 would see deaths cross well above 3 million going over 1% of the population. Sorry, but its not ok to murder 3 million people to save the business of your wife's hairdresser. 

2. Japan blocked and restricted all foreign travel, while the United States did not. That's why Japan and Tokyo's numbers are low. That acted early and now enjoy the benefits of that early action. LAX and Los Angeles county are not as large a travel hub as New York City. There were travel bans on China and more concern early on in California than in New York. New York State got its coronavirus cases from people traveling from Europe. New York City does far more travel and business with Europe than Los Angeles does. It was more exposed to the virus coming in from Europe and there were no restrictions. Population density of New York City is much greater than LA County. 

3. They are already closed. Even Trump approves their closure. A $250 dollar haircut is a luxury. Its not necessary for survival. I value people's lives of your wife's $250 dollar haircut. If your wife's Hairdresser makes $150,000 a year, she already has a personal income greater than 97% of people in the country. Median Household income United States is only $63,000 a year, and that often includes combined income from two or three people. Your wife's hairdresser will be just fine, provided they are not an idiot with their money. 

4. There is no comparison between coronavirus and the flu:
1. There is vaccine every year for the seasonal flu, and if everyone got the flu shot, you would cut the death rate by 90%
2. Coronavirus has a death rate that is 50 times higher than seasonal flu. 
3. Coronavirus is more transmissible than seasonal flu.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

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Zzzzzzzzzz show a link to prove #1 and I ll read the rest. You’re full of BS.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

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Oh and you don’t read well. Flu shot only works for 45% of the population. I’ve had both. Flu is way worse. Ever had the flu?


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

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Median income. What is the median income for Brookline MA? I dont live in Jackson MS and you don’t get to decide what is and isn’t a necessity.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

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Going for Herd immunity would have killed 2.4 million Americans by August. 99% of countries on the planet are NOT going for herd immunity in trying to deal with coronavirus. 

In World War II, the United States had no choice but to become heavily involved. If the United States had acted sooner, less people would have died in World War II. 
No one is going for Herd immunity. It kills far too many people, and would destroy the economy by killing off demand from a population too frightened to resume business as usual. 

The country that is doing the best at dealing with coronavirus is TAIWAN. Population 24 million and only 429 people infected and only 6 deaths. The low infection and deaths, has meant their domestic economy can now be more open than the U.S. economy. They have the testing and contact tracing ability to isolate any new flare ups so they don't have to go into maximum lockdown. The United States missed the boat to be in Taiwan's position, because we waited two months to put in the same travel bans and travel restrictions that TAIWAN put in on January 20, 2020. Once you have mass community spread, lockdown is the only answer, until new cases decline to the point that they can be controlled through testing, contact tracing and isolation of the specific cases from the rest of the population.


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## Billy_Bob (Apr 25, 2020)

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Three to five times that of the common flu..  Its the aggressiveness  and contagion level of the virus.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

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Hold on. Keep it simple. You just went to 2.4mil from 5%. Which is it? And 2.4 was the high mark. They said with it we lose 220k and now they are saying 60k. Not very reliable.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

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I would guess 200k


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

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They have a new job now. Being paid to stay home by the government. Consider it part of the war effort against coronavirus. This is a pandemic, you can't have normal life during a pandemic. Society switches to survival mode. Once the pandemic is over, you can return to business as usual.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

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I know most people in Massachusetts support the lockdown and won't be voting for Trump in November. We decide as a democracy what is or is not a necessity. The supporters of lockdown outnumber the supporters of open up.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

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Yep. Most taxpayers and educated people will vote for Trump so there is that. Our Governor is a Republican. And most don’t support the lockdown.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

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40% of the U.S. population is obese. That's one of the underlying conditions.


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## Billy_Bob (Apr 25, 2020)

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The Original model estimated a death total of 2.2 to 2.4 million. No mitigation. As we continued mitigation the numbers changed massivly.  Today, with mitigation we are expecting 64,000 deaths by Aug 1.  Depending on how we open up and how fast we reach herd immunity levels of 50% penatration that number may be slightly low.  If we get a massive flareup it could zoom a hell of a lot higher.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Apr 25, 2020)

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Spanish influenza killed 500,000 people in the United States alone. COVID-19 has killed 50,000. Not quite on the same scale


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

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Sorry, but Trump's base is the poorly educated. Trump's greatest support comes from West Virginia, which has one of the lowest levels of college education in the country. As you go up the education ladder, Trump's level of support declines.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

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Whose fault is that?  You obese? Eat less.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

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OK. I went to Duke undergrad and got my MBA from Northeastern. If that is “poorly educated” so be it.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

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1. There was virtually no effort on national basis to combat the 1918 pandemic. 
2. The Nation today is on lockdown which is depriving the virus of the oxygen(human bodies) it needs to spread and kill. 
3. The 1918 pandemic stretched all the way into 1920 worldwide. Were only 3 months into the coronavirus pandemic. 
4. Total deaths in the United States are 54,000 right now and rising 2,000 per day. The 1918 pandemic has been over for 100 years, this pandemic has just started.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

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I was talking about Trump's base. I don't care where you went to school.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

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I am his true base. That is what you transgender leftists don’t understand. We are doctors, lawyers, businessmen and accountants. We don’t talk about it openly but when we go to the booth we vote for him. Of course you don’t care. You’re jealous. It’s obvious.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

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2.4 million was the projected number of deaths by August 2020 if the United States did not go into lockdown. 5% is the current rate of death based on confirmed infections and deaths in the United States. Were currently at 960,000 infections with 54,000 deaths. By the time, we hit 1,000,000 infections, we may be close to 60,000 deaths which is a death rate of 6%.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

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That not what the polling data shows. Support for trump gets razor thin among those with a graduate degree or higher. Massachusetts has the highest level of college education across its population than any state in the country. Yet Massachusetts is a solid BLUE state.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

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That's not the point. You were trying to say most of the population was "SAFE". I was simply pointing out that's not really the case.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

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Yeah. We lie in polls. I told them I support Bernie Sanders as did many of my ilk as we wanted the Democrat party to implode. LOL. You really are a child. Of course it’s a blue state. We have a bunch of schools and students who of course lean left. I did Too when I was young and stupid. By the time they start making real money they vote red. Wow you are really naive.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

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Don’t force me to live in isolation because you’re fat. Open it up and faT people can sit home.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

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Well, then I guess the protest against the lockdown are alive and well in Massachusetts. I guess the bars and restaurants in Boston are packed. Did they have the St. Patrick's Day parade this year?


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

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LOL. Give it time. Lockdown started around St Pattys. People are getting anxious. You wait and see.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

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Except that most people that are YOUNG don't vote. The majority of Massachusetts voters are long out of college and they typically don't vote for Trump.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

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Duh we have huge urban areas that vote for free shit. Like Lowell, Lawrence, Dorchester, Revere, Mattapan, Springfield and Worcester. Is the MA Governor Democrat or Republican? You and your polls. LMAO!


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

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Oh, I've got my eye on Massachusetts. I'm waiting to see this Trump wave demand a massive opening there. Don't think its going to happen until people feel its SAFE, logical and based on SCIENCE, to open up, instead of based on someone's non-essential business.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

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It will be funny to see how much Trump loses the state of Massachusetts by this November. Only 6 months away. Donald Trump is going to be sent packing. West Virginia won't be able to save Donald Trump from losing the election this November.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

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Trump said it was up to the governors. You’re just making shit up now as Leftists tend to do.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

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Keep telling yourself that. What state do you live in?


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

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You can't say you've opened up if 40% of the population is sitting at home because their obese. A lot of these people don't even realize they are obese and overweight. 

Isolating people is not just about protecting their health, its also about depriving the virus of the oxygen it needs to continue spreading. Even if your not at risks for health complications from the virus, the virus can use you as a way to be spread to other people it can kill.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

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You’re just prolonging the inevitable. People are still going to stores and gas stations. This is not a true lockdown.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

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Its not really up to the governors. Its up to consumers. You can open up a movie theater, but you can't force people to go and buy a ticket and watch a movie in a crowded theater where the spread of the virus would be easy.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

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Consumers are dying to go. It is up to the governors. Again where do you live? Why avoid the question? LOL


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

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Getting Gas is not a prime spot for virus spread. The pumps are nicely spread out and can only handle so many cars at a time. People a driving less and don't need to fill up as often as well. Essential stores are open, but many have restrictions in place to prevent spread.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

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Well, then, we'll see how the experiment in Georgia goes. I guess all the non-essential business's will be filled with customers next week in Georgia.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

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People are touching the same pump over and over again. Durrr. What restrictions? I walked In and grabbed an ice tea. People were grabbing chips and such and have no idea who touched those chips before them. You’re lying again. Answer me. What state do you live in?


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

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Yep.  People want to live.









						California heat wave draws large crowds to beaches despite stay-at-home order
					

"We've had very good compliance," a lifeguard said. "People are spreading out."




					www.google.com


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

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It was only in Orange County, beaches in other more populated areas like LA County are closed.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

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You missed the point. People flocked to the open ones. Last time I ask. Where do you live? You don’t answer we are done.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

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Most of the infections come from being near people, rather than touching the same things they touch. It comes from breathing in very tiny droplets. Rarely does it come from touching a surface and then touching your face. The church group in Seattle practiced social distancing at their practice but it was 60 of them in the same room. It did not matter that no one touched each other and everyone cleaned their hands. They were all breathing close to one another and that was how it spread to 45 of the 60 people there. Most people are getting infected by breathing in tiny droplets.


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## U2Edge (Apr 25, 2020)

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If that were the case it would have been impossible to maintain social distancing on the beaches. The overwhelming majority of people in South California did not go to the Orange county beaches.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 25, 2020)

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You’re a liar. You don’t answer questions. You need to be hospitalized. Get help soon.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 26, 2020)

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Get help soon. You have a disease. You cannot read and answer questions.


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## U2Edge (Apr 26, 2020)

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In early March they stated that it was not airborne and primarily something you would get by touching and infected surface and then touching your face. That has since turned out to be wrong. Most people are getting it through the air and sometimes the droplets can spread 27 feet instead of just 6 feet before they fall to the ground or become to few to cause an infection.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 26, 2020)

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Nope. More lies. And you’re psycho. Don’t answer questions just pontificate.


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## JimBowie1958 (Apr 26, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Trump will be defeated in November and the Democrats will keep the House and take back the Senate. Then finally the U.S. government and U.S. policy can get back on a sound footing where SCIENCE and the SCIENCE of dealing with pandemics is how we decide what to do, rather than foolish and unsubstantiated ideas about the cost of keeping non-essential business closed down.


1) there is no way that Trump loses this November. You are dreaming if you think he is.

2) Science has never driven any of the left's wished for policies or policies enacted by Cuomo (forcing nursing homes to take in COVID19 patients) or Gretchen the Witch of Michigan (close churches, open pot shops).  There is no scientific data showing that the lockdowns work for preventing the disease from spreading as it is far more contagious than we once believed.

3) Economic depression kill people too, dude. For every 1% increase in the Unemployment rate, about 1500 people die across America.  We are facing a choice of having higher risk of transmitting COVID19 vrs more suicides from a psychologically depressed labor force.


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## toobfreak (Apr 26, 2020)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


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That was my point.  There was only about 100 million in the USA back then, a THIRD the population of today!  And it killed a half million!  Today we have about 320 million, and Covid has killed only about 50K.  Yet we shut the country down and killed industry, society, and our economy.  Pandemic?  More like bullshit.


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## toobfreak (Apr 26, 2020)

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*1918 Flu Pandemic:*  Half million killed, 1 out of every 200, yet nation went on after that into the glorious Roaring Twenties.

*2020 Corona Fraud: * 50,000 dead, 1 out of every 6,400, 30X fewer deaths, yet due to the panic shutdown, we have already guaranteed massive loan defaults,  collapse of healthcare, destruction of jobs and savings, devastation of industry and economy and the Dollar leading into a mini-depression for all alive, and in only two months, which will FORCE us to open the economy again regardless of the virus!

LESSON LEARNED:  We have fucked ourselves royally, weakened our ability to deal with future virus repeats, and in the end, Mother Nature will win anyway.  She always does.


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## playtime (Apr 26, 2020)

Updated:Mar 30, 2020Original:Mar 3, 2020
*Why the Second Wave of the 1918 Spanish Flu Was So Deadly*
The first strain of the Spanish flu wasn’t particularly deadly. Then it came back in the fall with a vengeance.
Dave Roos
[...]
While the global pandemic lasted for two years, the vast majority of deaths were packed into three especially cruel months in the fall of 1918. Historians now believe that the fatal severity of the Spanish flu’s “second wave” was caused by a mutated virus spread by wartime troop movements.
[...]
Reported cases of Spanish flu dropped off over the summer of 1918, and there was hope at the beginning of August that the virus had run its course. In retrospect, it was only the calm before the storm. Somewhere in Europe, a mutated strain of the Spanish flu virus had emerged that had the power to kill a perfectly healthy young man or woman within 24 hours of showing the first signs of infection. 
[...]
Only decades later were scientists able explain the phenomenon now known as “cytokine explosion.” When the human body is being attacked by a virus, the immune system sends messenger proteins called cytokines to promote helpful inflammation. But some strains of the flu, particularly the H1N1 strain responsible for the Spanish flu outbreak, can trigger a dangerous immune overreaction in healthy individuals. In those cases, the body is overloaded with cytokines leading to severe inflammation and the fatal buildup of fluid in the lungs.

British military doctors conducting autopsies on soldiers killed by this second wave of the Spanish flu described the heavy damage to the lungs as akin to the effects of chemical warfare.

*Lack of Quarantines Allowed Flu to Spread and Grow*
[...]
*Harris believes that the rapid spread of Spanish flu in the fall of 1918 was at least partially to blame on public health officials unwilling to impose quarantines during wartime. In Britain, for example, a government official named Arthur Newsholme knew full well that a strict civilian lockdown was the best way to fight the spread of the highly contagious disease. But he wouldn’t risk crippling the war effort by keeping munitions factory workers and other civilians home.*

According to Harris’s research, Newsholme concluded that “the relentless needs of warfare justified incurring [the] risk of spreading infection” and encouraged Britons to simply “carry on” during the pandemic.

The public health response to the crisis in the United States was further hampered by a severe nursing shortage as thousands of nurses had been deployed to military camps and the front lines....
[...]
Why the Second Wave of the 1918 Spanish Flu Was So Deadly


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## KGB (Apr 26, 2020)

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You really don’t understand economics do you?  You think just like that, all those people will suddenly go back to work?  A lot of those places those people worked shut down permanently.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 26, 2020)

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He doesn’t understand economics, science, mathematics or logic. Typical Leftist.


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## playtime (Apr 26, 2020)

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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 26, 2020)

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Show the dislikes. Let’s see em.


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## playtime (Apr 26, 2020)

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*
haaaaaaaaaaaa............... made you look!*


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 26, 2020)

playtime said:


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Ha ha gave you a thumbs down


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## playtime (Apr 26, 2020)

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## Flopper (Apr 27, 2020)

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Unless you're prepared to confront the epidemic early on, which the US was not, lock downs and shutdowns are only alternative to allowing the virus to run it's course.  Isolating members of the community is simplistic and it's been proven to work.  The problem with this is that it relies on public support.  That support might be very good when the 1st wave hits, but with the 2nd or 3rd, people are far less likely to be supportive.  That's where things can get really messy.


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## ABikerSailor (Apr 27, 2020)

You know, you guys would be well to think of this lockdown kinda like taking medicine....................

I had a physician's attendant on my last ship give me a script for a urinary tract infection.  He told me that the script was for 10 days, and while I might feel better in a week, I was to take all the pills for the whole 10 day period.  He said that if I stopped too soon, the drugs will have killed off most of the bacteria, but there could be a couple of strong survivors still out there, and if I stopped too soon, it could come back with a vengeance and be worse than what I started with.

Same here.  Our economy has already taken a hit from this shutdown, and if we open too soon, it could cause a second wave requiring another shutdown.  And, if we have to have another month of shutdown, that could really harm the economy, so deal with this one until the curve flattens out, then open everything back up.


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## Flopper (Apr 27, 2020)

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Primary due to the media and rapid communications, we are far more sensitive to death and it's not just epidemics.   In WWII, battles that cost the lives of more Americans than the entire war in Afghanistan barely made the headlines.  Today the death of one soldier will capture the headlines. We will spend a million dollars trying to save a homeless man's life in a hospital when chances  of success are 1 in a million.  I can remember when a homeless person would be unlikely to get past the emergency room regardless of the problem.    I just read about a charitable group that transports injured wildlife to free clinics around the country.  50 years ago, that problem would have been solved with one bullet.   Some might think this is good and other not but, it's a fact of life today.


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## Eric Arthur Blair (Apr 27, 2020)

Flopper said:


> Primary due to the media and rapid communications, we are far more sensitive to death and it's not just epidemics. In WWII, battles that cost the lives of more Americans than the entire war in Afghanistan barely made the headlines. Today the death of one soldier will capture the headlines. We will spend a million dollars trying to save a homeless man's life in a hospital when chances of success are 1 in a million. I can remember when a homeless person would be unlikely to get past the emergency room regardless of the problem. I just read about a charitable group that transports injured wildlife to free clinics around the country. 50 years ago, that problem would have been solved with one bullet. Some might think this is good and other not but, it's a fact of life today.


There's no doubt our comfortable insulated way of life makes us unwilling to endure the hardship we sometimes must go through. It's the down side of doing so well.


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## Wapasha (Apr 27, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> In early March they stated that it was not airborne and primarily something you would get by touching and infected surface and then touching your face. That has since turned out to be wrong. Most people are getting it through the air and sometimes the droplets can spread 27 feet instead of just 6 feet before they fall to the ground or become to few to cause an infection.


That reminds of of something I was telling a friend earlier.  We have had the first COVID-19 case in the US way back in January. So where is the science on this virus?  The entire world has had Jan, Feb, Mar, April, and it's almost May, and still we do not have definitive answers as to how this virus is spread.

Can the virus stay airborne long enough to be carried along indoor building ventilation systems? What's the infection rate? What is the fatality rate for particular age groups? Are people with the antigen being reinfected???

I'm hearing news articles which suggest it does go airborne for a long distance, more than the two meter rule, and that the fatality rate for healthy people under40 years old is akin to the seasonal flu.  So which is it, what is it????

The experts keep admonishing us to "follow the science," well, where is the science??? We seem to be stuck in Feb, where the experts singular brainstorming idea was locking ourselves away in our homes. We are almost in May, and we are still stuck with the experts one and only brainstorm from Feb.

Where are the in depth reports by our news media, concerning the methods being used so we can open a business, and allow customers to engage in commerce, and continue to mitigate infection?
The news media only seems to be concerned with causing arguments, creating strife, friction and angst, and only repeating stories which they breathlessly anticipate will sensationalize or politicize the news cycle that day.

Seems like the news media, and our so called epidemiology experts both want to keep us stuck in February.


----------



## WEATHER53 (Apr 27, 2020)

Killing a flea with a sledgehammer while hysterically extolling the virtues of such an action is an unwarranted destruction of America.


----------



## Flopper (Apr 27, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > U2Edge said:
> ...


Has their been any study as to how effective hand washing is in preventing infection by this virus?  Regardless, hand washing is tremendously important in prevention of disease. If Americans learn nothing from all this but washing their hands before eating and when they come home from work or play, we would be a lot heather as a nation and healthcare bills would go down.  It is estimated that washing hands with soap and water could reduce diarrheal disease-associated deaths by up to 50%    Researchers in London estimate that if everyone routinely washed their hands, a million deaths a year could be prevented


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> 
> 
> Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.
> ...



Lockdown is not about saving lives. It's about elections.


----------



## ABikerSailor (Apr 27, 2020)

Flopper said:


> U2Edge said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...




Sorry, but hand washing isn't going to cure the 2 worst problems in America today, which is obesity and diabetes.


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

Thunk said:


> So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed  football stadium?



You can have social distancing without lockdown.


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

SmokeALib said:


> occupied said:
> 
> 
> > Guy thinks he's being clever. The death rate would naturally be fairly constant everywhere among positive cases. Only a disingenuous asshole would use that single factor to make such a broad declaration. Slowing the rate of spread is key.
> ...



This disease is created by leftists.


----------



## HenryBHough (Apr 27, 2020)

All we need to do is outlaw communities of more than 100, each of which is entirely self-sufficient.  

Getting down to that will entail some pain.

Tough shit, that.


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## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

Sunni Man said:


> Appears all it did was saddle the taxpayer with a couple of trillion dollars more debt.  ...



This bust isn't cause by the virus. It's a result of hysteria caused by the leftist media.


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## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

Thunk said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Thunk said:
> ...



Do you care if you wear gloves?


----------



## WEATHER53 (Apr 27, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> Thunk said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


They care more about Making you wear gloves if it protects their health obsession


----------



## Flopper (Apr 27, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> U2Edge said:
> 
> 
> > In early March they stated that it was not airborne and primarily something you would get by touching and infected surface and then touching your face. That has since turned out to be wrong. Most people are getting it through the air and sometimes the droplets can spread 27 feet instead of just 6 feet before they fall to the ground or become to few to cause an infection.
> ...


Research virologists today are pretty busy trying to answer questions about the virus that would aid researching in developing antivirals, vaccines, and tests. Questions on immunity and reinfection can't be answered in a few months.  It will take years of case data to determine reinfection rates, and the answers to questions about immunity and how long it lasts.

There are far more pressing questions such as why are so many people with Covid 19 developing heart problems and dying of cardiac arrest? Why are people coming into hospital with very low o2 levels but do not have the typical symptoms.  Covid 19 patients on ventilators do not respond in same ways as typical pneumonia patients.  A completely new protocol is needed which has yet to be determined.

A lot of "people want to know questions" are going to have to wait until we can answer questions needed to keep people alive, remove road blocks in developing antivirals and vaccines.    Medical research talent in this field is in very high demand which means we're going have to restrict research to the most important questions for now.  So sorry Mr. President, no research on injecting disinfectants into the body.


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## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> ...



But TAIWAAAAANNN!

Yes, they reacted early, because of their traditional distrust to China. But they're also disciplined people, who care about their country, and not to mention homogeneous country with no racial problems. 

Can you compare New York City and Tokyo?

As of today, city of New York has 12287 deaths.
Tokyo, the world's largest and densest city, has 93 deaths.

New York is locked down.
Tokyo was never locked down.

Both cities got the virus about the same time, yet New York city death rate is over 250 times higher than Tokyo's.

Apparently, virus is not biggest problem. The filth is.


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## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

jc456 said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> > playtime said:
> ...



Not really. Hdroxycholoquine doesn't kill the virus, so it's not a cure. What it does, it embed itself to hemoglobin in RBC, therefore enable oxygen to be paired with iron ion inside of it, and be carried to other organs. Not a cure, but it helps your body to fight the virus.


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## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

playtime said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> ...



Did Anne Frank had a choice?


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## playtime (Apr 27, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> playtime said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



she wanted to live.   & did what she needed to do to live as long as possible.

she was stronger than the whiny babies who can't go to the movies but have netflix.  
...that can't go to the beach, but can take a bath. 
...that can't go to a restaurant, but can go to the grocery store or get take out without being shot down like an animal.
... that can communicate with anybody from anywhere in the world & know they are safe & well.


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## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

JoeMoma said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > A number of doctors have said that keeping people cooped up indoors has only prolonged this whole thing or made it worse. But of course one of the agendas is to get the whole world to take the vaccine which will make the main crooks behind this whole thing a massive fortune.
> ...



If you like that one, you'll like this one too.


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

luchitociencia said:


> Lockdowns don't work and "stay at home" order is the most harmful step ever suggested by the government. The "stay at home" policy can turn people nuts to dangerous levels.
> 
> And I can tell about it. After 4 weeks my whole family is staying at home, yesterday, I don't know how,  I was looking at my wife and saw her as beautiful as never...
> 
> NOOOOOO!!!!!!



Well, America can't go back to work yet, because for many, Congress made it pay more to stay home.


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



The current corona virus crisis has been a unique one in that given the social distancing public health guidance, the state governments are actually trying to keep people home by design. Along with federal government's support, it’s not surprising that Congress’s $2 trillion relief bill, rushed through to “do something", has resulted in many workers getting paid more in unemployment benefits to stay home than they would normally be earning at their jobs. Why would anyone want to go back to work if federal government is offering benefits through July 31?

Only some Republicans, (like Ben Sasse, Tim Scott, and Lindsey Graham, to name a few), warned at the time that the CARES Act’s sharp raise in unemployment benefits, and it happened as they predicted, because additional $600 a week did create disincentives, and discouraged those workers from returning to the work so long as those extreme benefits remained in place. 

We should've never close the economy, but just impose social distancing, along with responsibility to self and others, along with increased hygiene and wearing masks and gloves when around other people.


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## The Original Tree (Apr 27, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> 
> 
> Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.
> ...


Trojan Horse


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...



What we can learn from history is that an epidemic has never been overcome by quarantines, but only by hygienic measures. Quarantines do not protect populations in which the disease is already present, they can only buy a little time, but it cannot defeat the disease itself.

Stay-at-home has been sold to the public on the basis of protecting us. After all, our leaders "care" about us. They have only "our" best interests at heart. Right? And what is more terrifying to anyone than their health? None of us want to put our loved ones lives in danger. And so we become even more compliant than normal.

Franklin said something like, “Those who would give up liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” Considering the continuous fear coming from our leaders and especially media, I don't know if any of us could feel safe. And government totalitarian response to an invisible enemy should make all of us feel demonstrably less free.

In Michigan, stay-at-home order was extended by our bimbo governor until May 15th. We have feeling that they would like to extend it indefinitely, or at least until elections. By the number of surveys with loaded questions about "vote-by-mail" that seems to be their goal, so the fraud can continue.


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Wapasha said:
> ...



In Michigan, the amount of unemployment is $362 per week, and with additional $600 from feds the amount is $962. In New York, that amount is, I think $946. So lets do the math... 

If worker in New York who regularly earns $36,000 a year is now eligible for weekly unemployment benefits of $946. Annualized, that is equivalent to a roughly $49,000. Why would anyone who makes less than that be willing to return to work?


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

OldLady said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> ...



It's not the same. 

Lockdown order forces businesses to close. 

Social distancing separate people but they're still able to work, and earn their living.


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> Wapasha said:
> 
> 
> > We just passed the $2+ trillion stimulus, and we lost another 4.4 million jobs. Simply tossing money from a helicopter, is not going to create jobs, not if everyone is locked up in their homes, and business owners are going bankrupt.
> ...



Wast? People were buying essentials before the stimulus too. They're actually spending less they they used to. Nobody's traveling, vacationing, going to restaurants, spending on stupid shit. I spend much less money now then before the lockdown, and stimulus didn't effected me at all. Since I am still working from home, and my wife works from office, we are actually saving much more than we used to. 

Stimulus was huge mistake, mostly used to fill state's budget holes and union retirement funds. Businesses that don't have money saved for rainy days should fold, file Chapter 11, reorganize and start over. The sole purpose of lockdown was to close the economy and enforce vote by mail, to ensure Trump losing the election. Bad news for those who took the risk is, he won't lose.


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## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Wapasha said:
> ...


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> DOTR said:
> 
> 
> > Wapasha said:
> ...



Except, federal government did not impose shutdown of the states. Governors did. 

At first they blamed Trump for travel ban, while encouraging people to go out, just to turn 180 and blame him for not imposing travel ban earlier. My question is, if they were able to issue orders to lockdown states, what was preventing them for doing it a month, or weeks earlier?


----------



## Thunk (Apr 27, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> Thunk said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



No. 

You get infected when you touch your eyes nose or mouth with virus on your hand. 

That will happen if you are wearing gloves or not.


----------



## Dr Grump (Apr 27, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> The sole purpose of lockdown was to close the economy and enforce vote by mail, to ensure Trump losing the election. Bad news for those who took the risk is, he won't lose.



Oh god.
I'm thinking "interesting post"...and then you add this on the end.

Seriously....fuck'n hell...


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

Flopper said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > A number of doctors have said that keeping people cooped up indoors has only prolonged this whole thing or made it worse. But of course one of the agendas is to get the whole world to take the vaccine which will make the main crooks behind this whole thing a massive fortune.
> ...



I don't know where did you get that "would cost the lives of millions of people", but that is the reason we have a lockdown, which based on current numbers was completely unnecessary. Initial "millions will die" was based on models that used Chinese and some European data, and it worked... it scared shit out of everyone enough to close down the country, lock healthy people in their homes, and destroy small businesses, while politicians did what they do the best, spend money and pad each other backs for doing a great job, and "prevention millions from dying".


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

Flopper said:


> Billy_Bob said:
> 
> 
> > DOTR said:
> ...



I'm taking your "stop the spread of the virus" with reserve. Stopping the spread is impossible while you have public transport, grocery stores, fast food restaurants, deliveries still working. Italy and Croatia did study where they find out that most infected groups are in service industries, medical services, and retirees, while least infected were unemployed and school aged kids. 

Given that, we are all going to get infected sooner or later as long we're buying groceries, getting our deliveries and going to hospitals. The question is, why prolong it and why not sooner? By following "logistic function", rate of spread will continue as long there are hosts available to be infected, and will slows down as the number of individuals left to infect declines. Again, if we are all gonna get it, why prolong it?


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

DrLove said:


> Wapasha said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Bob said:
> ...



Yes. 

Nobody but you, is responsible for your own safety. If you disagree, you are placing too much faith in nanny state.  In other words, government is not responsible for your well being and safety. If you don't want to go to restaurants, that's fine, you're free to chose so. But insisting that everyone else does it, because you don't wanna go, is idiotic.


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

DrLove said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...



According to WHO...





However, they removed that tweet, soon after. 

Knowing that they're the one who said that there is no evidence of human-to-human transmission, can you trust them at all?

Now, let's say you can get re-infected (just like you can get re-infected with flu), does that mean we should kill economy in the fall again for three months?


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> playtime said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



You never know with these leftist faggots. I would keep my ass against the wall with them around.


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Wapasha said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



Trump: "Drink a lot of water."
Leftists: "He wants us to drown!!!"


----------



## Indeependent (Apr 27, 2020)

I don't know what Trump is going to do a minute from now but I know i'm not going to like it!


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

ABikerSailor said:


> First off, for those who are saying only old people die, that is false.  You can google "youngest US covid 19 death", and you will find that it was an infant.  Just the other day, a firefighter and police officer lost their 5 year old daughter to this disease.  So no, this virus isn't "safer" in young people.
> 
> As far as saying that the percentage of deaths isn't any worse than the flu?  Remember how they taught you how to find percentages in math class?  You take the smaller number and divide it by the larger number, and the result is the percentage.  Example:  you want to find what percent of 100 that 40 is, so you divide 40 by 100, which results in a figure of 0.4, which is 40 percent.
> 
> ...



Not so fast with that percentage.

Many deaths are counted as COVID-19 without testing, solely based on symptoms that are similar to other illnesses. Numbers are not adding up.

Check these links.

*Where Have All the Heart Attacks Gone? - NYT*
*Patients with heart attacks, strokes and even appendicitis vanish from hospitals** - WaPo* 

And here is another one that can give you an idea why.

*Hospitals get paid more if patients listed as COVID-19, on ventilators*


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



That's your opinion. I don't want to drag the discussion away from topic, but FDR was for me the worst one, by far.


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

DrLove said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...



What you do with healthy people?


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Wapasha said:
> 
> 
> > KGB said:
> ...


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > U2Edge said:
> ...



Sigh...






Lockdown or not, 40% of population will still be obese, and with other medical conditions. Lockdown wont save them from heart attack, or cancer, or stroke, they are not safe anywhere.


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 27, 2020)

XponentialChaos said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > XponentialChaos said:
> ...



Can you post 2018 data?


----------



## XponentialChaos (Apr 28, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> XponentialChaos said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...







__





						Stats of the States - Influenza/Pneumonia Mortality
					






					www.cdc.gov


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 28, 2020)

Thunk said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > Thunk said:
> ...



Then don't touch your eyes, nose, or mouth. And if you really need to, take of the gloves, wash your hands, touch it, then wash your hands again, put back your gloves, continue doing whatever you doing. Why is the problem keep up your hygiene?


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 28, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > The sole purpose of lockdown was to close the economy and enforce vote by mail, to ensure Trump losing the election. Bad news for those who took the risk is, he won't lose.
> ...



Well, you may be good at counting your merino sheep, or herding kangaroos, keep doing it, it keeps your mind away from complex issues.


----------



## CWayne (Apr 28, 2020)

occupied said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > occupied said:
> ...


"The correct data points and the proper statistical analysis".

Translated as: "I don't want to believe this so I'm going to throw out some big words that I may or may not understand so that I can look smart.


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 28, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> I don't know what Trump is going to do a minute from now but I know i'm not going to like it!



You should open thread about it. And don't forget a podcast.


----------



## Indeependent (Apr 28, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know what Trump is going to do a minute from now but I know i'm not going to like it!
> ...


Think of all the idiots here who hate Trump to such an extent that even when he says, "Good morning", he's being evil.


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 28, 2020)

XponentialChaos said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > XponentialChaos said:
> ...



I was looking at those charts for weeks, trying to find relevant data to compare. In most cases there is no data past 2017, so while it's giving you idea about numbers, it doesn't allows you to compare. 

Apparently, people are dying from COVID-19. However, where did all other causes of death disappear?


----------



## Billy_Bob (Apr 28, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


virologists say even basic corona viruses we have dealt with have immunities that last two years. The evidence suggests if we get a second wave it will be small and controllable.

Have you noticed only globalists like the WHO and Bill gates are hypimg the "no immunity "bull shit".  Just like the hiding of CHINA'S BS which was political and not science driven so is this hype.


----------



## Indeependent (Apr 28, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> XponentialChaos said:
> 
> 
> > Ame®icano said:
> ...


Relax...50% of my fellow Jews that I know are in medicine and the Liberals here are lying through their teeth.


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


yesterday, last week, I'd have never closed it.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 28, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > You WILL get it. Now or later. Your choice.
> ...


I agree, ding, ding, ding


----------



## jc456 (Apr 28, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > But you criticize opinions that do give a date.
> ...


the risks they took don't follow any logic.  where did you grow up and learn?  In order to avoid a number, one has to know what the other number would have been.  without that data, any action taken was wrong.  The best scenario was to do nothing.  That is what logic suggests.  know the number before doing a reaction to something.

military men who ran to the beaches in WW2 new they might die.  they had no idea the numbers of deaths.  they still did it.  amazing huh?  ~10,000 died.  just running toward the beach. one day


----------



## DrLove (Apr 28, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Wapasha said:
> ...



The well being and safety of the American people is JOB ONE of the fucking government you ignoramus. 





__





						The Purposes of Government [ushistory.org]
					





					www.ushistory.org


----------



## Indeependent (Apr 28, 2020)

DrLove said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...


Shall I presume you have a large stash of assets to get you through the next 6 months?


----------



## DrLove (Apr 28, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



If we don't have a vaccine by then and another 60,000 people drop dead, then yes. So WHO removed a tweet? BFD! Scientists the world over still don't know to what degree antibodies for this novel virus render a person immune, or provide any defense against reinfection whatsoever. These things take time.

Hey man, if you're itching to get back out in the world - Cool, go to Albany GA, get a haircut, a fresh tattoo, and then pile like a fearless little sardine into a pub to celebrate your bravery. We don't miss ya if something goes haywire.


----------



## Indeependent (Apr 28, 2020)

DrLove said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...


If the majority of those who die go out without masks and gloves then they deserve to die.
The assholes riding the NYC subways don't wear masks.


----------



## DrLove (Apr 28, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



Nothing Clown Nuts, other than continue to be cautious and practice reasonable personal hygiene and self-distancing. Why would you ask?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 28, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Ame®icano said:
> ...


Masks don't protect you from getting it but protect others if you have it. So everyone should wear one just in case for the foreseeable future.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 28, 2020)

DrLove said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...


I want baseball to resume!!!!


----------



## DrLove (Apr 28, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> I want baseball to resume!!!!



I'll take ANY live sports other than Friday Night Smackdown and reruns. I'm ready to say okay fine, conduct extensive testing of players, refs, and camera/tech crew and play in front of empty bleachers. Sports fans are SO hungry now, they'll watch in record numbers!


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## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 28, 2020)

DrLove said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > I want baseball to resume!!!!
> ...



Why can we not have fans there sitting three seats apart? Especially since the virus doesn't live all that well outdoors? Baseball should be a good sport to play this live?


----------



## DrLove (Apr 28, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



Okay - We could try that. 1/3 capacity with social distancing - Face masks? That would look VERY weird on TV but I think everyone's pretty much used to it by now. 

I'm first and foremost a college football fan. Get it together by September and I'll be a happy camper. But we should also have an abbreviated baseball season.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 28, 2020)

DrLove said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...



Give out the face masks at the park. Face mask day. I do not think we will have a college football season unfortunately.


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## Billy_Bob (Apr 28, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


Social distance the stands and vendors... You can even do a pay per view that equals the cost of a ticket for the near area.   Get on with it!


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## Billy_Bob (Apr 28, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


You could do the same for football...  S/D and pay per view... Get on with it...


----------



## DrLove (Apr 28, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



Team Logod Face Masks? ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT!

These orders would be in the hundreds of thousands which should bring the cost down to maybe a buck each. Considering todays ticket prices, big deal right? 









						MLB Baseball Team Cotton Washable Face Masks
					

Show your support for your favorite MLB Baseball Team by wearing these soft, comfortable, washable surgical style masks made from 2 layers of 100% cotton fabric. All masks are 5.5" X 8.5". Elastic is 6" Please make sure this will fit your face. We are making these to order so it will take 7 work...




					www.spoileddogdesigns.com


----------



## Flopper (Apr 28, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


The other side of the coin is the government has taken away the jobs by forcing businesses to close.  Since government has taken away the jobs, government should be compensating employees.  Everyone I know that's sitting at home without a job wants to get back to work.  Sitting at home with three kids that can't go to school or much of anywhere else is not exactly a fun filled vacation.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 28, 2020)

DrLove said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...


I think so. You're helping your fans and advertising at the same time.


----------



## DOTR (Apr 28, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Ame®icano said:
> ...



 He gets a government check. Not having to go to work is a common theme among those yelling for a lock down to defeat President Trump.


----------



## Flopper (Apr 28, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> Wapasha said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...


If there were enough N95 masks which actually protect the wearer as well others, there would be no need to stay home and no need to close businesses.   Without protection, having all businesses and schools open would be insane.

You're right quarantining can not stop an epidemic when you already have a million cases.  That train left the station months ago.  However, flattening the cure and buying time for medical researchers to develop antivirals and vaccines can not only save lives but can stop or at lease greatly reduce the impact of the disease.


----------



## DOTR (Apr 28, 2020)

DrLove said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...




Not ours. We were unique. We formed a federal government to

"establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity "


----------



## flack (Apr 28, 2020)

Open this nation back up!!!


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## DOTR (Apr 28, 2020)

Flopper said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...




Ive been saying for years the left wants to make every American a government dependent.


----------



## Pogo (Apr 28, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> 
> 
> Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.
> ...



Nope, it's a strawman trying to prove a negative.

I have zero cases of coronavirus in my county with strict distancing/closing etc measures in place.

PROVE I would still have had zero without them.

/thread


----------



## Pogo (Apr 28, 2020)

cnm said:


>



Nice chart, I like it.

Here are a couple I've had for a few weeks


----------



## Pogo (Apr 28, 2020)

SmokeALib said:


> This is a free country. I do what I want, when I want, and where I want. Thank God I don't live in a sanctuary leftist shithole.



You live in Kansas City, which in every other thread is a "Democrat-controlled city".  
Having it both ways in Dichotomy-Land:  Priceless.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 28, 2020)

Pogo said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> ...


Prove you would not have zero if you pranced around like you would normally.


----------



## XponentialChaos (Apr 28, 2020)

CWayne said:


> "The correct data points and the proper statistical analysis".
> 
> Translated as: "I don't want to believe this so I'm going to throw out some big words that I may or may not understand so that I can look smart.



The author is a political scientist, not a statistician.  I think anyone with an understanding of what he's doing will see why his methodology is questionable.  Here's the biggest issue in my opinion:

The number of deaths is one of the primary reasons states chose their Covid-19 response strategy.  The seven states that did not adopt a shelter-in-place strategy are obviously not interested in doing so _because_ they have a low death count.  So if we consider the number of deaths that occur in a state with shelter-in-place, like Michigan, against a state without shelter-in-place, like Arkansas, we would see more deaths in Michigan.  In his regression model, that is an indication that shelter-in-place doesn't work, because there are more deaths in Michigan than Arkansas.  That makes no sense.  

Michigan is implementing shelter-in-place _because_ of the number of deaths while Arkansas is lax about this because of their lack of number of deaths. The same goes for cases.  This analysis doesn't show whether the strategy is working so much as it indicates prior history of how badly covid-19 has affected that state.


----------



## Pogo (Apr 28, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



I don't need to.  I'm not the one claiming an absolute here.

Again --- /thread


----------



## Flopper (Apr 28, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> Thunk said:
> 
> 
> > Ame®icano said:
> ...


That will work quite well for a virus or bacteria that is spread by contact such as Noravirus.
which passes directly from person to person and indirectly by touching contaminated objects or eating foods that's contaminated.  However for coronaviruses which are spread primarily through the air, good personal hygiene is only part of the soulution.


----------



## WEATHER53 (Apr 28, 2020)

Wow!!   FINALLY get what this overreactive hoax is all about
Imagine selling that 100 % of everyone will perish after you have been able to shut down America over a 0.1% death rate.
The answer-
The biggest liberal favorite-
Global Warming.

That’s next for us folks thanks to 80% of you being participatory, frightened to death imbeciles. We ain’t seen nothing compared to the True Draconian lockdown methods that the GW will put into play. Clueless President and governors looking over their shoulders as libbies clamour for their “rights” for a non GW planet and we all get forced into another centuries old method of dealing with a non existent crisis

Thank you all very little


----------



## Flopper (Apr 28, 2020)

DrLove said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...


We maybe able to go football games in the fall.  I certainly hope so because I have some season tickets and I'm looking forward to live football.
However, the chances are very good that the virus is seasonal which means it will start spreading rapidly in the fall after a somewhat quit summer.  If the number of new cases and deaths are rising throughout the summer. Fall is likely to be a lot worse than this Spring.


----------



## DrLove (Apr 28, 2020)

Flopper said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



My worry precisely. Renowned virologist Dr Trump seems to be the only doctor or scientist who thinks it may not come back.


----------



## Flopper (Apr 28, 2020)

DrLove said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...


Since it's a democratic hoax,  it's season is politically based, it goes away in summer in time for the conventions and does not come back until after the election.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 28, 2020)

DrLove said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...


so hurting 26 million people is them helping?  you have a very odd way of interpreting that.


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## flack (Apr 28, 2020)

jc456 said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Ame®icano said:
> ...


It will be over 30 million Thursday.


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2020)

DrLove said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...


if it does, then at least a million won't get it, right?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 28, 2020)

flack said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...


they don't care.  they lost any respect I had left for them.


----------



## Pogo (Apr 28, 2020)

Flopper said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



A good reason to be keeping an eye on Southern Hemisphere countries like Brazil and Peru (both of which have been rising).


----------



## jc456 (Apr 28, 2020)

Pogo said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> ...


you have no evidence to that.  none.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 28, 2020)

XponentialChaos said:


> CWayne said:
> 
> 
> > "The correct data points and the proper statistical analysis".
> ...


why doesn't it work?  this is supposed to be so contagious.  why do population numbers count?  if people interacting is the spread, then it should be everywhere.  that's just a statistical given. if people aren't interacting, how is it they got it? there's your issue.  that you can't ever answer.  you have no data to back your claim.  no bench mark.  no, if you compare, you can't.  you have nothing to compare.  what he chose is the only comparison to make.  and rightly, it showed that shelter in place didn't curb it at all.  not at all, it still worked it's way into multiple homes according to the numbers.  not technically possible.


----------



## MarathonMike (Apr 28, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...


Maybe there are several reasons for the widely varying impacts of the virus across different countries, states, cities and towns. Maybe we should focus on why that is and stop pushing the one size fits all solution.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 28, 2020)

Pogo said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...


Show me your doctorate in math and or science. Otherwise STFU.


----------



## theHawk (Apr 28, 2020)

Tipsycatlover said:


> What makes the lockdowns a curious form of dark humor is the very things that should have been locked down was mass transit!    Can you picture the "rube" on his Wyoming ranch wondering why the fool in New York doesn't want the ranch ten miles down the road to get a visit but lets the subways still run?     The bus system is rolling along packed to the gills.
> 
> A hundred years from now historians will marvel at how civic leaders could be sooooo stupid.   Or how the fuck anyone let these fools get away with it.


We don’t need to wait a hundred years, we know how stupid they are today.


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 28, 2020)

DrLove said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...



Did you read the link you posted?

Show anywhere that says that government is responsible for your personal well being and safety?


----------



## Pogo (Apr 28, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



Show me your proof of your negative and win a Nobel for being the first.

Demonstrating the flaw in your premise is neither "math" nor "science".  It's logic.


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 28, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Ame®icano said:
> ...



He think government exists to hold his hand and make sure he doesn't hurt himself.


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 28, 2020)

DrLove said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...



So why are the healthy people being ordered to stay at home?


----------



## DrLove (Apr 28, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> He think government exists to hold his hand and make sure he doesn't hurt himself.



So tell us Ame®icono Hamilton - What IS the purpose of government if not the health and safety of it's people?


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## Ame®icano (Apr 28, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...



If so, than why doctors are wearing masks?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 28, 2020)

Pogo said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...


You have it backwards.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 28, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


They wear different masks than you and I would. Their masks are protective. But it is to protect the patient too.


----------



## DrLove (Apr 28, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> So why are the healthy people being ordered to stay at home?



1. You don't know whether you are healthy or not since we have no widespread testing 2. If you have it but are asymptomatic, you can spread to others or even kill grandma 3. Nobody is "ordering" you to stay at home - You can go for a drive, go grocery shopping .. even to the hardware store and 4. Have you injected your daily disinfectant yet?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 28, 2020)

Pogo said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...


which you aren't using.  we are.  again, question my previous post with some factual data.


----------



## WEATHER53 (Apr 28, 2020)

Health people focus on health and very little to nothing else
Unfortunately the effect of their singleness of purpose does not have a one track effect that their one track mind does
There are so many “laws” that have been put into effect where there is no law nor mechanism to implement it
Millions of jobs lost and millions financially ruined .
When did America become the Land of the Best  Possible  Healthy instead of The Land of the Free?


----------



## jc456 (Apr 28, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


the problem with the mask is that it collects your spit.  you touch the mask and you have your spit on your hand.  It's why it isn't a logical task to use.


----------



## Pogo (Apr 28, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



Uh, no I don't.  Read your own OP, and I quote the link therein:

"Comparing US states shows *there is no relationship* between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths."

WRONG.  It shows no such negative. 
Prove it does.

Your own thread title declares "lockdowns did not work".  Prove they didn't.

Even the title of your link admits it's talking about _*empirical *_evidence.  Which DOES NOT lead to the absolute negative conclusion.

Prove it does.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 28, 2020)

DrLove said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > So why are the healthy people being ordered to stay at home?
> ...


I know I'm healthy. I have no temperature, I have no symptoms.  I work out and do it just fine.  you don't get to tell me I'm not healthy.  you can, but I'll shit on it every time.


----------



## jc456 (Apr 28, 2020)

Pogo said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...


it can't show anything since they didn't bother setting benchmarks.  they have no idea of anything.  see statistics relies on data, and you have zip. Nadda, nothing.  you can't make any judgement based on any data collected to date.  not one fking thing except that it's something we did.  you can't say whether that was correct or not.  i challenge you to prove me wrong.

BTW, some scientists are stating this started in September, and guess what, I have that data.  You know what I can prove from that data?  that stay at home was the wrong play.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Apr 28, 2020)

Pogo said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...


Read the article. I am not a mathematician or a scientist. Or ask them. LOL. Or post your credentials to question them.


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## flack (Apr 28, 2020)

jc456 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


I am almost positive that I had it in September.


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2020)

flack said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...


My wife and kids as well.


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## Flopper (Apr 28, 2020)

Pogo said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...


Very good point.  However, there are many factors other than seasonality to consider, where people live, rural or cities, population density, personal and public hygiene, and government response to the epidemic and reporting.


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## jc456 (Apr 28, 2020)

Flopper said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Flopper said:
> ...


you are talking out your ass. you don't know any of that and whether it's true or not.  but hey, thanks for playing.


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 28, 2020)

DrLove said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > He think government exists to hold his hand and make sure he doesn't hurt himself.
> ...



Who said anything about people? 

I was specific, government is not responsible for your well being and safety. 

Do you know what "your" means? They don't have to hold "your hand, or make sure "that "you" don't hurt yourself, or to tuck you in your bed at night. It's your own, personal, or individual responsibility. The purpose of the government is written in the Constitution, that specify what they can and cannot do. The res is on you.

Moron.


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 28, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



What makes you think I don't wear the same medical grade mask? 

The purpose of the mask, gloves, and any other protective equipment is primarily to protect yourself.


----------



## DrLove (Apr 28, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Ame®icano said:
> ...



Sorry pal, nobody is interested in "nanny states" or not taking personal responsibility.
The health and safety of its people is governments #1 job. Hard Stop - Ya MAGA-Moron.
"ALL ENEMIES FOREIGN & DOMESTIC" 
Now go enroll yourself in a Civics or Government101 class - Pronto



			https://www.health.state.mn.us/communities/practice/resources/chsadmin/mnsystem-responsibility.html
		









						3 responsibilities every government has towards its citizens
					

There are many ways governments can create safe and prosperous societies - but these three are the most effective, writes Anne-Marie Slaughter.




					www.weforum.org


----------



## WEATHER53 (Apr 28, 2020)

In the old days masks were rare due to the caution of you were breathing right back in what you had just exhaled.
When did that get proven to be not an issue?


----------



## playtime (Apr 28, 2020)

Pogo said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



isn't it 'noble'?  donny thinks so.  naw  --  i forgot;  _that's for journalism._ 


carry on.


----------



## WEATHER53 (Apr 28, 2020)

DrLove said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...


Health being the governments number one job has no historical precedent. The common welfare idea is regarding freedom and military attacks  either from without or within
You candy assed can’t take care of yourselves are now extending government out to being like a parent taking care of a child because we don’t know how to take care of ourselves .
So far I have found just 10 states that have it in their charter that the governor can act based on a health concern. We have No evidence that everyone is effected in an adverse way Other Than This  Lockdown . War, weather related disasters and civil unrest permit the use of this  sort of state power but 80% of states are exerting  “legal” authority that they don’t have.


----------



## Pogo (Apr 28, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



Once AGAIN --- I don't need no steenking "credentials".  All you have to do is READ IT.

You've got a fake subheadline and a fake thread title, NEITHER of which can be proved.


----------



## Ame®icano (Apr 28, 2020)

DrLove said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > So why are the healthy people being ordered to stay at home?
> ...



I do know I am healthy. 
I don't have it, so I can't spread it.
If I am not allowed to go to my second home, or to visit my neighbor, or go on a lake... yes, I am ordered to stay at home.
Of course I did. That's why I am healthy.


----------



## DrLove (Apr 28, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Ame®icano said:
> ...



If you haven't been tested, then you have NO idea whether you have C-19
You're in Michigan? Okay, I'm in a lock down state too - Oregon.
I was on my beach four times last week. Nobody told me to go home. 
And nobody is telling me I can't walk my dog wherever I damn please. 
Now please stop being a whiny Trumpflake.


----------



## SmokeALib (Apr 28, 2020)

Pogo said:


> SmokeALib said:
> 
> 
> > This is a free country. I do what I want, when I want, and where I want. Thank God I don't live in a sanctuary leftist shithole.
> ...


It is - but
1: I don't live in Kansas City
2: KC is not a sanctuary city
3. But I give you that KC is a democratic shithole.


----------



## Flopper (Apr 28, 2020)

WEATHER53 said:


> In the old days masks were rare due to the caution of you were breathing right back in what you had just exhaled.
> When did that get proven to be not an issue?


That's not as much of a problem with N95 masks because they have an intake valve that allows air to go in only one direction.  Finding one is almost impossible because outlets are either donating or selling their stock to hospitals.  Just one of the items the government should have stockpiled.  If they had enough N95 masks for everyone, there would have been no need for business shutdowns nor stay at home orders.


----------



## DrLove (Apr 28, 2020)

Flopper said:


> WEATHER53 said:
> 
> 
> > In the old days masks were rare due to the caution of you were breathing right back in what you had just exhaled.
> ...



Yeah, I couldn't even find a decent one  on Amazon. Either sold out or reserved for state and federal orders only. N95's are nowhere to be found.


----------



## DOTR (Apr 28, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Ame®icano said:
> ...




  And when they say "government" they always mean "federal government". Thats the holy grail for them.


----------



## Flopper (Apr 28, 2020)

DrLove said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > WEATHER53 said:
> ...


The government could contracted for a half billion masks for about 30-50 cents a piece. A billion dollar order would protect everyone and there would have been no need for hundreds of billions of dollars in federal aid and tens of thousands of lives could have been saved.  However. since the virus was just the common flu and a democrat hoax, there was no need.


----------



## WEATHER53 (Apr 28, 2020)

DrLove said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > WEATHER53 said:
> ...


I’ve got one from couple of years ago but I don’t see an intake valve


----------



## Indeependent (Apr 28, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...


It *doesn't*?


----------



## Indeependent (Apr 28, 2020)

DrLove said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > So why are the healthy people being ordered to stay at home?
> ...


Have you pre-selected your fraction of a second of a Trump statement today?
Do you realize that the dumber you Libs sound the more people will vote for Trump?


----------



## XponentialChaos (Apr 28, 2020)

jc456 said:


> XponentialChaos said:
> 
> 
> > CWayne said:
> ...



It's completely obvious that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.


----------



## Dr Grump (Apr 28, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> Well, you may be good at counting your merino sheep, or herding kangaroos, keep doing it, it keeps your mind away from complex issues.



...and from conspiracy theorist whackadoodles it seems...


----------



## Dr Grump (Apr 28, 2020)

MarathonMike said:


> Maybe there are several reasons for the widely varying impacts of the virus across different countries, states, cities and towns. Maybe we should focus on why that is and stop pushing the one size fits all solution.



Viruses only spread via one reason. Contact. They don't appear out of thin air. They don't land on your body from nowhere. Contact, contact, contact. That is the only reason they spread. If you don't have contact you don't get it. End of story.


----------



## ABikerSailor (Apr 28, 2020)

Quick question...................if Trump is handling the virus problem so well, why is it that the US has 1/3 of the COVID 19 infections world wide?  We don't have 1/3 of the worlds population.


----------



## Dr Grump (Apr 28, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> If so, than why doctors are wearing masks?



Because they could be asymptomatic carriers.


----------



## ABikerSailor (Apr 28, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> MarathonMike said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe there are several reasons for the widely varying impacts of the virus across different countries, states, cities and towns. Maybe we should focus on why that is and stop pushing the one size fits all solution.
> ...



Sorry, but that isn't exactly true.  While this virus can be spread by direct contact, it can ALSO be spread by the air.  This virus has the ability to stay in the air for a long time.


----------



## Dr Grump (Apr 28, 2020)

WEATHER53 said:


> Health people focus on health and very little to nothing else
> Unfortunately the effect of their singleness of purpose does not have a one track effect that their one track mind does
> There are so many “laws” that have been put into effect where there is no law nor mechanism to implement it
> Millions of jobs lost and millions financially ruined .
> When did America become the Land of the Best  Possible  Healthy instead of The Land of the Free?



Isn't being healthy part of being free. As for land of the free...pppffttt...


WEATHER53 said:


> In the old days masks were rare due to the caution of you were breathing right back in what you had just exhaled.
> When did that get proven to be not an issue?



I've never heard of that being an issue. Sounds more like something you've thought about and think is an issue. Air is not tangible. It goes right through a mask. What a mask does is act like a filter of tangible particles. Not all particles can be stopped by a mask, but a lot can. Think of it as a filter...


----------



## Dr Grump (Apr 28, 2020)

ABikerSailor said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > MarathonMike said:
> ...


Should have been more clear. Yeah, I agree. You have to be in the vicinity for sure.


----------



## ABikerSailor (Apr 28, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> I've never heard of that being an issue. Sounds more like something you've thought about and think is an issue. Air is not tangible. It goes right through a mask. What a mask does is act like a filter of tangible particles. Not all particles can be stopped by a mask, but a lot can. Think of it as a filter...



You're right, not all particles can be stopped by a mask.  But, you also musts remember that what a mask is made of is just as important as the mask itself.  Cloth will only filter down to 10 - 5 microns, and that is if it is a dense weave.  The size of the virus is 0.1 microns in size.

Kleenex will not only filter down to 0.1 microns, but it also carries a static charge that attracts viruses like a magnet and they stick to it.  But, Kleenex is too fragile to make into a mask.

Paper towels will filter down to 0.3 microns (same as most commercial bought masks), and are sturdy enough to make into single use masks.

So, use a paper towel folded like a mask, and place a couple of layers of Kleenex behind it.  Seal the sides with masking tape, and use twine for ear holders.  One roll of paper towels and a box of Kleenex will make a lot of masks.

Like I said, not only does it matter that you have a mask, but it also matters a HUGE amount what it is made of.


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## The Original Tree (Apr 28, 2020)

It did what it was supposed to do, which is put a chink in The President's armor, tested martial law, destroyed small independent businesses, threaten the food chain, bankrupt the country and may be the beginnings of a global famine in the making.

And all this for nothing more than the flu, really,


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## Ame®icano (Apr 28, 2020)

DrLove said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...



Who's whining? 

Look at the circus you lefties created. And for what? 

Because you lost 2016 elections. Grow up, get over it, if not, you'll have around for and half years to get used to it.


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## Ame®icano (Apr 28, 2020)

DOTR said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...



That's their daddy. And right now, daddy isn't giving them what they want, so they're banging their heads of the walls.


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## Ame®icano (Apr 28, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > Well, you may be good at counting your merino sheep, or herding kangaroos, keep doing it, it keeps your mind away from complex issues.
> ...



Riiiight... when you don't like what you hear, it's CONNNSPIIIIRASYYYY!


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## Ame®icano (Apr 28, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> MarathonMike said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe there are several reasons for the widely varying impacts of the virus across different countries, states, cities and towns. Maybe we should focus on why that is and stop pushing the one size fits all solution.
> ...


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## Ame®icano (Apr 28, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > If so, than why doctors are wearing masks?
> ...



If they're carriers they shouldn't be with patients, moron. The wear it to protect themselves.


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## Ame®icano (Apr 28, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



More clear? No dummy, you were dead wrong, but you can't admit it, can ya? 

No, when your statement says "only spread via one reason" you are excluding every other way of spreading.


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## Indeependent (Apr 28, 2020)

ABikerSailor said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > MarathonMike said:
> ...


Are you posting what everybody already knows?
That Grump is a moron?


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## Dr Grump (Apr 28, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Ame®icano said:
> ...



I neither like nor dislike. I use logic. You should try it some time.


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## Dr Grump (Apr 28, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> More clear? No dummy, you were dead wrong, but you can't admit it, can ya?
> 
> No, when your statement says "only spread via one reason" you are excluding every other way of spreading.



No. I was wrong. I forgot about the hang time. But contact is the main reason. There is a reason NZ and Australia have 3/4 deaths per million and the US 150+ per million. It was called lockdown. What? Let me guess, you think it was just pure luck, right?


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## Dr Grump (Apr 28, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



And yet, you make me look like Einstein. Go figure...


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## Indeependent (Apr 28, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > ABikerSailor said:
> ...


I can't resist...
You look like *Einstein*...I wouldn't brag about that.


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## Dr Grump (Apr 29, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> I can't resist...
> You look like *Einstein*...I wouldn't brag about that.



I'm sure there is a long list of things you can't do. Rubbing two brains cells together being one of them.


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## Ame®icano (Apr 29, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



When Trump says "Good Morning"...


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## colfax_m (Apr 29, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Ame®icano said:
> ...


Because it wouldn’t be possible to determine who is a carrier at all times.


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## Pogo (Apr 29, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Ame®icano said:
> ...



Wow.  Dig Bubble Logic


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## Pogo (Apr 29, 2020)

ABikerSailor said:


> Quick question...................if Trump is handling the virus problem so well, why is it that the US has 1/3 of the COVID 19 infections world wide?  We don't have 1/3 of the worlds population.



To be exact we have four and a quarter percent.  About one seventh of one-third.


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## Ame®icano (Apr 29, 2020)

colfax_m said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



Really?

Than, why they were wearing masks and gloves before corona virus ever started?


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## Ame®icano (Apr 29, 2020)

Pogo said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...



Unlike you, at least he's not celebrating record infections and dead Americans.


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## colfax_m (Apr 29, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> colfax_m said:
> 
> 
> > Ame®icano said:
> ...



At all times? Nonsense.


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## Ame®icano (Apr 29, 2020)

Look at this bozzo, signing in with different accounts just to give thumbs down.


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## playtime (Apr 29, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



now - he's been flat out lying about the totals & trying to suppress the real numbers evr since he said he didn't want fellow americans to come off that floating petri dish.  why?  why you ask?

he 'liked the numbers [of confirmed cases}where they were.'


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 29, 2020)

First, we need to stop listening to the amateurs at wall street journal, politico, etc. We don't have the data yet to determine the effectiveness of the lockdowns.

Know that, per the experts, there will certainly be a positive effect of the lockdown. The ultimate question will be : was it worth it? Not: did the lockdowns have any effect? Because yes, the lockdowns reduce the number of cases. And the more virulent the virus, the less the effect of reducing cases.


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## Dr Grump (Apr 29, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Ame®icano said:
> ...



have you done your daily sucking of Trump's balls yet? Y'know, if the Orange Buffoon actually thought before he spoke, or even better didn't open up his fat trap and spew shit about things he knows nothing about, there wouldn't be so much ammo for his enemies. I thought you neocon, whackadoodle, Deplorable nimrods were all about personal responsibility. It's nobody's fault but the Piece of Scum in the WH's that he is being ridiculed over what he is saying. Instead of being totally embarrassed by his words, you embrace them and blame others. Why do people think the likes of you are dumb as a post? Hhmmm...


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## Ame®icano (Apr 29, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...



Typical leftist, accusing others of what he does himself.


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## Pogo (Apr 29, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Get a brain scan.  Seriously.  They need to find out what's in there in its place.


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## The Original Tree (Apr 29, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Ame®icano said:
> ...


Deep State is pushing this Scamdemic, and more scams are to come.  Resist the Police State.


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## Ame®icano (Apr 29, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> First, we need to stop listening to the amateurs at wall street journal, politico, etc. We don't have the data yet to determine the effectiveness of the lockdowns.
> 
> Know that, per the experts, there will certainly be a positive effect of the lockdown. The ultimate question will be : was it worth it? Not: did the lockdowns have any effect? Because yes, the lockdowns reduce the number of cases. And the more virulent the virus, the less the effect of reducing cases.



Damn, I actually agree with you on this. 

If all those experts that media is relying on are that good, wouldn't they be working in their private practices, or being employed somewhere where their expertise could actually help? In most cases, they're paid mouthpieces that will say anything to keep them on payroll, nothing else.


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## Ame®icano (Apr 29, 2020)

colfax_m said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > colfax_m said:
> ...



With infectious diseases, all the time. Also surgeries, all the time.


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## Dr Grump (Apr 29, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> If they're carriers they shouldn't be with patients, moron. The wear it to protect themselves.



If they're asymptomatic they don't know they're carriers, Moron. No, it has been said over and over again that wearing a mask does nothing to stop you getting the disease. You do realise that most people are getting the disease because they touch their mouth or eyes with their hands after having touched a surface that has the virus on it. How many masks cover your eyes, Moron? The only good thing about wearing a mask is if you knowingly or unknowingly have he disease it stops YOU spreading it. God, no wonder the US is swimming in cases and death. Too many idiots like you think you are informed. You're not.


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## Ame®icano (Apr 30, 2020)

Pogo said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



Not everyone has shit for brains like you, pal.


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## Ame®icano (Apr 30, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > If they're carriers they shouldn't be with patients, moron. The wear it to protect themselves.
> ...



Let me put it this way, thong.

If I can still get the virus from you while wearing the mask, then how will my mask save you from me?


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## cnm (Apr 30, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> If I can still get the virus from you while wearing the mask, then how will my mask save you from me?


It will reduce the virus you release to atmosphere.


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## Dr Grump (Apr 30, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> Let me put it this way, thong.
> 
> If I can still get the virus from you while wearing the mask, then how will my mask save you from me?



Umm, they're saying if I have the disease and am wearing a mask, the chances of me passing it on to you are greatly reduced due to said mask being worn. Got it?


----------



## U2Edge (May 1, 2020)

JimBowie1958 said:


> U2Edge said:
> 
> 
> > Trump will be defeated in November and the Democrats will keep the House and take back the Senate. Then finally the U.S. government and U.S. policy can get back on a sound footing where SCIENCE and the SCIENCE of dealing with pandemics is how we decide what to do, rather than foolish and unsubstantiated ideas about the cost of keeping non-essential business closed down.
> ...



1.) More likely, there is no way Trump wins in November. FIRST, his victory in 2016 was about as WEAK as a victory can be. Trump failed to win the popular vote, lost it by 2 percentage points and nearly 3 million votes. SECOND, Trump had tiny victories in the 3 states that allowed him to pull out a and electoral college victory. His victory is based on by the skin of your teeth victories in 3 BLUE states, Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania and Michigan will overwhelmingly vote for BIDEN this November. Wisconsin is the only state Trump still has any shot in, and its a long shot at this point. Biden almost has it wrapped in the polling in Wisconsin, and then the Democrats are holding their convention in the state. THIRD, Trump's average approval in the GALLUP poll based on all the polls taken over the past three years since he became President remains stuck at 40%. GALLUP has done Presidential approval polling since the 1930s, and Trump's average of 40% is the lowest of any President in history. The next lowest average, Truman at 45%, did not run for re-election in 1952 after winning in 1948 because of his low approval numbers. FOURTH, The United States is entering the worst recession, possibly depression since the 1930s. The economy was Trump's only strength and now that is gone. FIFTH, Blame for this disaster and tragedy of the pandemic in the United States can be laid at Trump's feet. His failure to block and restrict ALL travel from outside the country in January and to ramp up production of tests, masks and other necessities for fighting the pandemic are the reason that the United States is the 12th worst infected country in the world on a per capita basis and has the 12 highest number of deaths in the world on a per capita basis. TAIWAN, the gold standard in this crises, banned and restricted all travel into Taiwan starting January 20, before they had even one confirmed case. TODAY, TAIWAN has only had 429 infections and 6 deaths despite being the most exposed country to China. TAIWAN has a population of 24 million people and is very densely populated. Their population is also older on average than the United States. Yet, the United States has 1.1 million infections and 64,000 deaths and rising each day. You can see the scale of Trump's failure when you compare the infection and deaths in the United States to those in TAIWAN. The American people will blame Trump for this disaster. 

2.) SCIENCE has shown travel bans, restrictions and lockdowns are very effective when implemented EARLY and maintained effectively. TAIWAN, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand and several other countries have proven this. Isolation PREVENTS the spread of the virus. The Virus is like a fire and needs oxygen to survive. The oxygen in this case is human hosts. When humans are isolated from each other, the virus can't spread and dies. TAIWAN only has 429 infections, and 6 deaths. They currently have only 99 active cases. By the end of the month, the virus will not exist ANYWHERE in TAIWAN. 

3.) Economic depressions do not kill as many people as uncontrolled pandemics involving lethal pathogens. World history has proven that. The deaths you describe from economic depression are also indirect and preventable. You can always rebuild and economy. Even Germany and Japan were able to rebuild their economies after both countries were destroyed in World War II. Japan had ever one of its cities firebombed and had two of their cities NUKED. Yet, they rebuilt it all by 1960, even Hiroshima and Nagasaki which were both NUKED were rebuilt by 1958. Population in both Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1958 was greater than it had been July 1945 just before each city was NUKED. So the economy can be rebuilt and repaired. *What you can't do, is bring someone back to life who has physically died of COVID-19.*


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## U2Edge (May 1, 2020)

KGB said:


> U2Edge said:
> 
> 
> > KGB said:
> ...



Let me put it to you bluntly, every city in Japan was firebombed by the United States in World War II, and two cities were NUKED, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But by 1960, Japan had rebuilt all its cities and its economy and even had  larger population than it did prior to World War II. Whatever economic devastation the lockdown entails, in pales in comparison to what happened in Japan from World War II. Yet, Japan rebuilt its economy and became even stronger than it has ever been in its history from an economic perspective. The United States economy will be rebuilt when the pathogen is defeated. *What can't be done, is bringing back all the people who have physically died of COVID-19. *


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## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> 3.) Economic depressions do not kill as many people as uncontrolled pandemics involving lethal pathogens. World history has proven that. The deaths you describe from economic depression are also indirect and preventable. You can always rebuild and economy. Even Germany and Japan were able to rebuild their economies after both countries were destroyed in World War II. Japan had ever one of its cities firebombed and had two of their cities NUKED. Yet, they rebuilt it all by 1960, even Hiroshima and Nagasaki which were both NUKED were rebuilt by 1958. Population in both Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1958 was greater than it had been July 1945 just before each city was NUKED. So the economy can be rebuilt and repaired. *What you can't do, is bring someone back to life who has physically died of COVID-19.*



People will die from the virus, and people will die from being couped up at home.    The difference is that couped up at home, there will be domestic violence and suicides.  Taking away the lockdowns before we have testing and isolation in place will lead to pandemic part 2.


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## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

KGB said:


> You really don’t understand economics do you?  You think just like that, all those people will suddenly go back to work?  A lot of those places those people worked shut down permanently.



We're going to spent close to $1 trillion to keep those businesses viable.


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## U2Edge (May 1, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> U2Edge said:
> 
> 
> > In early March they stated that it was not airborne and primarily something you would get by touching and infected surface and then touching your face. That has since turned out to be wrong. Most people are getting it through the air and sometimes the droplets can spread 27 feet instead of just 6 feet before they fall to the ground or become to few to cause an infection.
> ...



The virus is brand new, no one knew anything about it on January 1, 2020 except possibly some in China. It takes time to study and learn about the virus. Had Trump did what TAIWAN did on January 20, 2020, we would not be in this mess. TAIWAN successfully beat the virus, by shutting down and restricting all travel into the country on January 20, 2020 before there was even one single confirmed case in the country. Trump waited until late March to institute all the travel bans and restrictions that TAIWAN put in place on January 20, 2020. THE RESULT:

TAIWAN INFECTIONS AND DEATHS TO DATE: 429 infections - 6 deaths

UNITED STATES INFECTIONS AND DEATHS TO DATE: 1,100,000 infections - 64,000 deaths. 

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people and is the 12 most densely populated country on earth. TAIWAN has not had a single death from Covid-19 in nearly a month and has only 99 active cases left in the country. By the end of May, the virus will not exist anywhere in TAIWAN. In contrast the United States is still having 30,000+ new infections per day and over 2,000 deaths per day as we go into May. 

Answer to some of your questions:

Yes, the virus can stay airborne long enough to be carried by indoor building ventilation systems. 

The true infection rate is not fully known because testing capacity is still too far behind. We need to be able to do 5 million test per day as a country but the average is only up to about 250,000 test a day currently. We know there are 1,100,000 confirmed infections. 

The overall fatality rate based on known infections and known deaths from covid 19 is 6% in the United States. Age is really irrelevant although the young have a much better chance of survival. The fact is, everyone is a host that the virus can use to spread itself and THAT is what is relevant. 

People with the antigen are being re-infected and any sort of immunity from complications is temporary and will not last. People infected now and that have survived could become infected again next winter and die. Especially if their lungs were damaged in the first infection. 

The virus can remain airborne out to 27 feet. What is not known, is if the virus still has enough concentration at 27 feet to cause an infection at that distance. 

The fatality rate for people under age 40 is low, but that is irrelevant to fighting the pandemic, because everyone under 40 can spread the virus to people it can kill. In FACT, young people are the primary means the virus spreads because it does not typically kill a YOUNG HOST. When the virus does not kill its hosts, it uses such hosts as a means to spread DEEPER into the population. The largest challenge in killing this pathogen is YOUNG PEOPLE and their superior ability to spread the virus because they rarely die from it. 

Successfully defeating a Pandemic virus can take 1 to 3 years. Two months of lockdown is NOTHING, its just the beginning. Had the United States done what TAIWAN did in early January, we would not have to continue to be in lockdown for years. But we face 1 to 2 years of lockdowns do to the way we let the virus penetrate into the United States population. 

Continued lockdowns, testing, contact tracing, and isolation is the only method available until a vaccine is developed. A vaccine will be ready at the earliest in August 2021. 

As for the economy, 37% of the labor force is able to do their jobs from home. Another 20% to 25% are in essential services and still have to go into work despite the threat of the virus. The other 30% to 40% of people need to remain at home. Opening non-essential business will just help the virus. Also, Business can't return to normal when the consumer is not buying or using the business. Most people will not be going to movies, concerts, sporting events, in person shopping when it is NOT SAFE. So re-opening these business's is essentially useless because they will not get enough consumers to justify reopening. 

This is a tragedy a disaster and the goal now is survival until the pathogen is defeated. Once the pathogen is defeated, the rebuilding can begin.


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## U2Edge (May 1, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> U2Edge said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



Actually, New York City has over 18,000 deaths as of today and many speculate there have been thousands more deaths in New York City that are unaccounted for. Japan like Taiwan put in place travel bans and restrictions and have done a better job at finding the virus and isolating those infected. That explains the difference between Tokyo and New York City. Donald Trump let the virus penetrate the country too deeply in the early stages. New York City has the largest exposure to the outside world being a travel hub. Once the population was deeply penetrated, the number of cases overwhelmed New York's ability to test, contact trace and isolate people. Because Japan PREVENTED deep penetration of the virus into the country in the early stages, they have been able to manage it with testing, contact tracing, and isolation. 

TAIWAN only has 99 active cases now in a country of 24 million people. By the end of this month, the virus won't even exist in Taiwan based on the latest projections.


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## AzogtheDefiler (May 1, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > U2Edge said:
> ...


We currently have 19 deaths per 100k in the US. 0.0195%. Don't be such a snowflake.


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## U2Edge (May 1, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> U2Edge said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



Their chances of survival are improved by not getting infected with COVID-19 which can kill much more rapidly. Plus, the fact that any human can act as a host for the virus and spread is more important factor than its ability to kill certain populations. In fact, young healthy people are the virus's primary way of spreading among the population because in those cases the host usually does not die and can then spread it to a larger number of people. That's why Isolating young people is probably even more important than isolating the old, given that young people are better at spreading the virus.


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## AzogtheDefiler (May 1, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > U2Edge said:
> ...


Link it. Dr. Ionnidis from Stanford disagrees. Post your credentials so we may compare them to his.


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## U2Edge (May 1, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> U2Edge said:
> 
> 
> > Ame®icano said:
> ...



Were currently in a lockdown without which the Virus could kill nearly 1% of the U.S. population by August, 2.4 million people. Plus, that is just the first wave. The virus is a serious threat because of its capacity to kill millions of Americans over the next two years WITHOUT lockdowns and mitigation efforts.


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## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Actually, New York City has over 18,000 deaths as of today and many speculate there have been thousands more deaths in New York City that are unaccounted for. Japan like Taiwan put in place travel bans and restrictions and have done a better job at finding the virus and isolating those infected. That explains the difference between Tokyo and New York City. Donald Trump let the virus penetrate the country too deeply in the early stages. New York City has the largest exposure to the outside world being a travel hub. Once the population was deeply penetrated, the number of cases overwhelmed New York's ability to test, contact trace and isolate people. Because Japan PREVENTED deep penetration of the virus into the country in the early stages, they have been able to manage it with testing, contact tracing, and isolation.
> 
> TAIWAN only has 99 active cases now in a country of 24 million people. By the end of this month, the virus won't even exist in Taiwan based on the latest projections.



The virus is starting to penetrate the heartland of america (and not just the coasts).  It's hitting the meat packing businesses that the entire country depends on.  The president had to issue an emergency executive order to force those businesses to stay open, but some have up to 1/3rd of their employees testing positive.


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## AzogtheDefiler (May 1, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > U2Edge said:
> ...


You don't know that. You're guessing the numbers I gave you are actual facts. And if I increase those numbers by 2.5x! Or 160k deaths that is still only 48 per 100k. 85% of the population has mild to no symptoms. Of the deaths, 82% are 65+ and 94% had preexisting conditions. 

This is simple math. I am not making any other guesses. And the lockdowns weren't 100%. My wife and I still go to the grocery stores and my kids still hang with their friends. What we reduced was large group gatherings, nothing more.


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## U2Edge (May 1, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Ame®icano said:
> ...



Only a test can prove you don't have it now or have not had it in the past.


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## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> We currently have 19 deaths per 100k in the US. 0.0195%. Don't be such a snowflake.


At one point the captain of the Titanic was told that less than 0.0195% of the ship was filled with water too.  And we saw what happens when people don't take the danger seriously.


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## AzogtheDefiler (May 1, 2020)

meaner gene said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > We currently have 19 deaths per 100k in the US. 0.0195%. Don't be such a snowflake.
> ...


It was? And you have proof of that? LOL

Nope you're grasping at straws. I am providing succinct math.


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## U2Edge (May 1, 2020)

meaner gene said:


> U2Edge said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, New York City has over 18,000 deaths as of today and many speculate there have been thousands more deaths in New York City that are unaccounted for. Japan like Taiwan put in place travel bans and restrictions and have done a better job at finding the virus and isolating those infected. That explains the difference between Tokyo and New York City. Donald Trump let the virus penetrate the country too deeply in the early stages. New York City has the largest exposure to the outside world being a travel hub. Once the population was deeply penetrated, the number of cases overwhelmed New York's ability to test, contact trace and isolate people. Because Japan PREVENTED deep penetration of the virus into the country in the early stages, they have been able to manage it with testing, contact tracing, and isolation.
> ...



Should just close them. Meat is not essential to survival. There are plenty of vegan and vegetarian alternatives as well as fish.


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## U2Edge (May 1, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> U2Edge said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



YOU DON'T EITHER. Its the best calculation based on the best SCIENCE we have. If you want to save and protect as many people as possible, you have to plan for worst case situations. There is often much uncertainty when it comes to planning and strategy in a crises. You have to estimate what could happen, and then make a plan based on that.


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## U2Edge (May 1, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Ame®icano said:
> ...



Yep, just like David Koresh and Timothy McVeigh used to say.


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## AzogtheDefiler (May 1, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > U2Edge said:
> ...


I don't. So I am giving you current mathematical facts only. Not drawing any conclusions. You are. I am not even estimating. I am just saying if the toll increases by 2.5x the number would still be tiny.

Georgia, TN, and CO will be good experiments.


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## AzogtheDefiler (May 1, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...


Cannot base your life on outliers.


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## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> meaner gene said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


Any problem starts with a single instance.  At which point you could claim it's only one in billions, whether AIDS, or Spanish flu, or the coronavirus.

Downplaying the early stages only means we don't prepare for the onslaught when it goes exponential.


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## U2Edge (May 1, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> U2Edge said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



What you forget are those "FACTS" are based on the environment of lockdown and not what the virus would be doing without a lockdown.


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## AzogtheDefiler (May 1, 2020)

meaner gene said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > meaner gene said:
> ...


How many other diseases did we have that fizzled out? We didn't lock the world down over AIDS. COVID is a cold. COVID-19 is a really really really bad cold.


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## U2Edge (May 1, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> U2Edge said:
> 
> 
> > Ame®icano said:
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The thinking is the same, and the results are the same..


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## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

meaner gene said:


> The virus is starting to penetrate the heartland of america (and not just the coasts).  It's hitting the meat packing businesses that the entire country depends on.  The president had to issue an emergency executive order to force those businesses to stay open, but some have up to 1/3rd of their employees testing positive.





U2Edge said:


> Should just close them. Meat is not essential to survival. There are plenty of vegan and vegetarian alternatives as well as fish.


Or open up our 2nd amendment rights to get our own meat.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (May 1, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > U2Edge said:
> ...


I already explained to you that Doctors disagree with you. Only time will tell if I am right or you're right. Why do disagree with that?


----------



## jc456 (May 1, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Ame®icano said:
> ...


amen,  If I don't want to wear one, I don't constitutionally have to.  anyone who doesn't like that can go dig up the veterans that died to give me that right.  so now all you jack offs stay in your lane and I'll stay in mine.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (May 1, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > U2Edge said:
> ...


So every NBA player is Michael Jordan and LeBron James?

Come on man.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (May 1, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Thunk said:
> 
> 
> > So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed  football stadium?
> ...


You don't catch the virus by going outside, dope.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (May 1, 2020)

Hutch Starskey said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Thunk said:
> ...


When did I say "outside"? Learn to read.


----------



## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> What you forget are those "FACTS" are based on the environment of lockdown and not what the virus would be doing without a lockdown.



You're disproving the OP.  The original projections were for 1 - 2 millions deaths in the US from the coronavirus.  Now that estimate is down to 60K - 120K, because of the lockdowns.

Since the other guy loves "numbers" that means lockdowns are over 90% effective.


----------



## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> meaner gene said:
> 
> 
> > Any problem starts with a single instance.  At which point you could claim it's only one in billions, whether AIDS, or Spanish flu, or the coronavirus.
> ...



We didn't lock the world down because we didn't know better.  That's why the black plague killed 1/3rd of all the people on earth, and the Spanish flu killed 1/30th of the population.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (May 1, 2020)

meaner gene said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > meaner gene said:
> ...


That is ancient history. We live in modern times. SARS and Bird Flu we did really well. Stop being such a chicken.


----------



## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

jc456 said:


> amen,  If I don't want to wear one, I don't constitutionally have to.  anyone who doesn't like that can go dig up the veterans that died to give me that right.  so now all you jack offs stay in your lane and I'll stay in mine.


Constitutional right not to wear a mask?  Where did you get that.  Don't you remember in the 1960's they forced every able bodied man to carry a draft card.  If they can make you carry a card, they can make you wear a mask.


----------



## Pogo (May 1, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> meaner gene said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



"Bird flu" >>> "chicken".   Bwahaha, fowl language in the quote nest.  Cackle cackle.


----------



## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> meaner gene said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



We had the people and the resources in place for those pandemics.  Testing, vaccines, medications.  We didn't have to "flatten the curve" to keep from overwhelming the medical system.


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## AzogtheDefiler (May 1, 2020)

Pogo said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > meaner gene said:
> ...


Avian Influenza?


----------



## jc456 (May 1, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Ame®icano said:
> ...


looks like playtime wanted you dead.


----------



## jc456 (May 1, 2020)

ABikerSailor said:


> Quick question...................if Trump is handling the virus problem so well, why is it that the US has 1/3 of the COVID 19 infections world wide?  We don't have 1/3 of the worlds population.


fudged numbers, it's what demofks do best. BTW, there is evidence to that.

it's not the people who vote that matters, it is the people that counts them.









						Did Joseph Stalin Say, 'It's Not the People Who Vote That Count ...'?
					

One version of a quote about those who count votes determining the outcomes of elections was attributed to Joseph Stalin in a book by his former secretary.




					www.snopes.com
				



_Joseph Stalin said some version of "It's not the people who vote that count, it's the people who count the votes." _


----------



## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > "Bird flu" >>> "chicken".   Bwahaha, fowl language in the quote nest.  Cackle cackle.
> ...


The president called the pandemic a "war".  And this has becomes Trumps vietnam, with more dead americans than we had in vietnam.  And the war is far from over, and ending the lockdown is like surrendering, and becoming prisoners of war.


----------



## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

jc456 said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > Quick question...................if Trump is handling the virus problem so well, why is it that the US has 1/3 of the COVID 19 infections world wide?  We don't have 1/3 of the worlds population.
> ...


Meat packing used to report they had only a couple of coronavirus positive employees.  Then they started widespread testing and some companies went from a few, to almost 1/3rd of their workers infected.

The more we test, the higher the numbers go.  So is the truth based on ignorance, or on knowledge?


----------



## jc456 (May 1, 2020)

meaner gene said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > meaner gene said:
> ...


we didn't overwhelm the medical system.  they are furloughing nurses and doctors.  you're a sheep.


----------



## jc456 (May 1, 2020)

meaner gene said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...


all fudged numbers.  thanks, but they already admitted it.


----------



## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

jc456 said:


> meaner gene said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


We didn't overwhelm the medical system because we shut down the country and put people on lockdown.

Which is what disproved the OP in the first place.

We went from an exponential curve that would overwhelm the medical system, to your admitting it didn't happen, and the curve got flattened.  And there is only one reason for that success.   LOCKDOWN

It worked.  Case closed.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (May 1, 2020)

meaner gene said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > meaner gene said:
> ...


LOCKDOWN? People were still going to grocery stores and drug stores? Many still going to work. This was not a true "lockdown" stop it.


----------



## Pogo (May 1, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



I had a little bird
Its name was Enza
I opened the window
And influenza

--- children's play rhyme, 1918 -- for those still alive to chant it


----------



## DrLove (May 1, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> U2Edge said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



Would that be Doctor Oz and Doctor Phil?


----------



## Pogo (May 1, 2020)

meaner gene said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



And this time he can't get a doctor to write a note about "astonishingly excellent bone spurs" so that he can wage his "personal Vietnam" in the sex clubs of New Yawk.


----------



## DrLove (May 1, 2020)

meaner gene said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > ABikerSailor said:
> ...



The recent testing on prisoners and assisted living facilities was even worse. Some around 75% infected.


----------



## jc456 (May 1, 2020)

DrLove said:


> meaner gene said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


yeah because all of those people aren't stay in home all the time.  funny how the count seems to affect the stay at home people the most.  amazing. it isn't logical.  but when numbers really don't matter, it's what happens.


----------



## jc456 (May 1, 2020)

meaner gene said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > meaner gene said:
> ...


you don't know shit about what any of the numbers means.  you can't justify the lockdown since you have no data to say it was worse.  I can say however, that implementing it caused many more deaths.  especially in stay at home facilities.  Nursing homes and prisons.  amazing, those that can't get out and about got it.  that's fking insane right?  how the fk does that happen?  hmmmmmmmm


----------



## DrLove (May 1, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> meaner gene said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...



Last time I went shopping at my neighborhood Safeway, all  but one of the 50 or so other shoppers was wearing a face mask and they had plexiglass to protect the checkers with plenty of sanitizer hand wipes. Also markers on the floors indicating social distancing requirement. 

That doesn't make grocery shopping 100% safe, but it definitely helps - We gotta eat!


----------



## DrLove (May 1, 2020)

Pogo said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



Thought you might enjoy today's PDB - Pluto Daily Briefing.


----------



## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> meaner gene said:
> 
> 
> > We went from an exponential curve that would overwhelm the medical system, to your admitting it didn't happen, and the curve got flattened.  And there is only one reason for that success.   LOCKDOWN
> ...


Don't play the fool.    Your version of a "lockdown" is purely twilight zone.  Where nobody goes to work.


----------



## jc456 (May 1, 2020)

DrLove said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > meaner gene said:
> ...


we also have to work to afford to buy the products.  and for that we need to end the stay at home shit/ fiasco. that damaged over 30 million where the virus affected thousands. imbeciles.


----------



## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

DrLove said:


> The recent testing on prisoners and assisted living facilities was even worse. Some around 75% infected.





jc456 said:


> yeah because all of those people aren't stay in home all the time.  funny how the count seems to affect the stay at home people the most.  amazing. it isn't logical.  but when numbers really don't matter, it's what happens.



Nursing homes and prisons proves the lockdown point.  Had the nurses and prison guards been prevented from going home, and coming back with the virus, those places wouldn't have gotten infected.


----------



## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

jc456 said:


> you don't know shit about what any of the numbers means.  you can't justify the lockdown since you have no data to say it was worse.  I can say however, that implementing it caused many more deaths.  especially in stay at home facilities.  Nursing homes and prisons.  amazing, those that can't get out and about got it.  that's fking insane right?  how the fk does that happen?  hmmmmmmmm


I just gave you the numbers.  The projected cases were cut 90% because of the lockdown.

If that isn't proof it worked, nothing will convince you.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (May 1, 2020)

DrLove said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > meaner gene said:
> ...


In MA it is very open. I may be touching a bag of chips that 10 other people touched.


----------



## jc456 (May 1, 2020)

meaner gene said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > The recent testing on prisoners and assisted living facilities was even worse. Some around 75% infected.
> ...


no it doesn't at all, it invalidates, the last place you should be is locked up.  that's what that says.  your numbers punk


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (May 1, 2020)

meaner gene said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > meaner gene said:
> ...


That was how India had it. People can still work remotely. Food may be delivered. But our lockdown was more or less a diminishing of gatherings vs. a true lockdown.


----------



## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

DrLove said:


> Last time I went shopping at my neighborhood Safeway, all  but one of the 50 or so other shoppers was wearing a face mask and they had plexiglass to protect the checkers with plenty of sanitizer hand wipes. Also markers on the floors indicating social distancing requirement.
> 
> That doesn't make grocery shopping 100% safe, but it definitely helps - We gotta eat!


Before my 14 day lockdown, I went shopping and had to wait on line outside the supermarket, and again outside the pharmacy, because they were only letting a certain number of people in the store at any one time.  And yes, they had social distancing lines set up along the sidewalk.


----------



## jc456 (May 1, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> meaner gene said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


and our immune systems have been damaged because of it.  herd immunity is necessary, without other diseases and bacteria will take people out.  it's sad. bigly historically


----------



## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

jc456 said:


> we also have to work to afford to buy the products.  and for that we need to end the stay at home shit/ fiasco. that damaged over 30 million where the virus affected thousands. imbeciles.


Do what the government just did with the cares act.  Put it on your credit card.  You'll pay it back later.  Just like the government.

Don't worry.  Be happy.  Deficits don't matter.


----------



## jc456 (May 1, 2020)

meaner gene said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > you don't know shit about what any of the numbers means.  you can't justify the lockdown since you have no data to say it was worse.  I can say however, that implementing it caused many more deaths.  especially in stay at home facilities.  Nursing homes and prisons.  amazing, those that can't get out and about got it.  that's fking insane right?  how the fk does that happen?  hmmmmmmmm
> ...


projected isn't actual.  you had no data to make any projection about.  you're an imbecile like all of them. ignorant to math and science at that.


----------



## jc456 (May 1, 2020)

meaner gene said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > we also have to work to afford to buy the products.  and for that we need to end the stay at home shit/ fiasco. that damaged over 30 million where the virus affected thousands. imbeciles.
> ...


go live in russia and china then, that isn't the US of A.  what a flea you are, or is it nat? hmmmmmm


----------



## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> In MA it is very open. I may be touching a bag of chips that 10 other people touched.



That explains the toilet paper shortage.  People wanted to stock up before people got all touchy feely on it.

Please don't squeeze the charmin.


----------



## Pogo (May 1, 2020)

DrLove said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > meaner gene said:
> ...



Exactly the same here in smalltown Appalachia.  My particular county has yet to record its first case, and we intend to keep it that way.


----------



## DrLove (May 1, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



Yep, I carry a little bottle of Purell in my pocket and use frequently when I'm out and about. Yesterday I went to the nursery for a bunch of spring flowers. Those guys are really booming. When I saw parking lot was almost full, popped on a face mask and gloves. People gotta pick up 12 annuals and closely inspect before they choose one. Ick!


----------



## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

meaner gene said:


> Nursing homes and prisons proves the lockdown point.  Had the nurses and prison guards been prevented from going home, and coming back with the virus, those places wouldn't have gotten infected.





jc456 said:


> no it doesn't at all, it invalidates, the last place you should be is locked up.  that's what that says.  your numbers punk


This is like the Presidents "lockdown" from China.  Where he let 40,000 americans and legal residents back into the country from China.

A real "lockdown" would have kept them out, and stopped the spread.   Lockdowns work, but a leaky lockdown is not a real lockdown, and hence make it look like a lockdown doesn't work.


----------



## DrLove (May 1, 2020)

Pogo said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



You live in Drumpf Country. That can't be a whole lotta fun.
Maybe you could trade houses with Zog in Boston?


----------



## Desperado (May 1, 2020)

Now the World Health Organization (WHO) is finally “admitting” the effectiveness of Sweden’s approach to fighting coronavirus.  Maybe because just yesterday Trump was criticizing Sweden's approach








						Tucker: WHO ‘Admitting’ Sweden’s ‘Model’ Is Working But US Policy Makers Won’t ‘Abandon A Sweeping Power Grab’
					

Tucker Carlson took small "comfort" in the fact that the WHO is finally "admitting" the effectiveness of Sweden's approach to fighting coronavirus.




					dailycaller.com


----------



## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

jc456 said:


> meaner gene said:
> 
> 
> > I just gave you the numbers.  The projected cases were cut 90% because of the lockdown.
> ...


Most data is projected, from GDP to the national debt.  When we prepared to invade Japan in WWII the million casualties were projected.  But as Dr Birx and Dr. Fauci said, the models get changed as the conditions change and they have new data to support their projections.

And the projections without a lockdown vs with a lockdown, showed a 90% effectiveness.  That's four times better than any coronavirus drug.


----------



## DrLove (May 1, 2020)

meaner gene said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > we also have to work to afford to buy the products.  and for that we need to end the stay at home shit/ fiasco. that damaged over 30 million where the virus affected thousands. imbeciles.
> ...



Good ol' Prick Cheney eh? Yep, debt and deficits are what we've gotten with every Republican president since Reagan.
Donnie doubled the fiscal deficit after Obama cut it in half. D's will have to clean things up again starting in 2021.


----------



## Pogo (May 1, 2020)

Desperado said:


> Now the World Health Organization (WHO) is finally “admitting” the effectiveness of Sweden’s approach to fighting coronavirus.  Maybe because just yesterday Trump was criticizing Sweden's approach
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Uh nnnnnnnnnnno, it isn't.  We did this earlier.  Wanna see some highlights?



Pogo said:


> Hm.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Penelope said:


> MarathonMike said:
> 
> 
> > If this wasn't so tragic for the world, it would be funny. We need to go back to common sense and stop listening to these "experts" who keep changing their minds. Fuck them. I'm not wearing a mask, I'm not getting the vaccine, and I've gone out every god damn day and will continue to do so. These morons have TOTALLY screwed us. We should have done what Sweden did, which is exactly what the WHO is saying now.
> ...


----------



## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

DrLove said:


> Good ol' Prick Cheney eh? Yep, debt and deficits are what we've gotten with every Republican president since Reagan.
> Donnie doubled the fiscal deficit after Obama cut it in half. D's will have to clean things up again starting in 2021.


2025


----------



## jc456 (May 1, 2020)

meaner gene said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > meaner gene said:
> ...


yep and no precedence to do anything based on previous viruses.  zip. nadda.  they projected that new york would be underwater today, and nope!!! you keep your projections,  you be stupid.


----------



## jc456 (May 1, 2020)

DrLove said:


> meaner gene said:
> 
> 
> > jc456 said:
> ...


always trying to clean up a demofks mess.  yep


----------



## jc456 (May 1, 2020)

Pogo said:


> Desperado said:
> 
> 
> > Now the World Health Organization (WHO) is finally “admitting” the effectiveness of Sweden’s approach to fighting coronavirus.  Maybe because just yesterday Trump was criticizing Sweden's approach
> ...


sure show us


----------



## Hutch Starskey (May 1, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


Hmm....


AzogtheDefiler said:


> You don't go outside to get mail, to get groceries, to put out the trash?


----------



## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

Tucker: WHO ‘Admitting’ Sweden’s ‘Model’ Is Working But US Policy Makers Won’t ‘Abandon A Sweeping Power Grab’
					

Tucker Carlson took small "comfort" in the fact that the WHO is finally "admitting" the effectiveness of Sweden's approach to fighting coronavirus.




					dailycaller.com
				




Don't let Swedens success fool you.  They're sheep, and when ordered to socially distance, they socially distanced.  

They were sheep when it came to their gun rights too.  

_It is illegal for a civilian in Sweden to carry a firearm, unless for a specific, legal purpose;such as hunting or attending shooting ranges. To transport firearms, there are rules to adhere to;the general regulations are that the gun must be unloaded, hidden and transported in a safe and secure way under supervision. _

Americans are not sheep, they are too independent to voluntarily  do what the government says.  Hence the lockdown to force them to.  After all, we don't voluntarily pay taxes either.


----------



## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

jc456 said:


> yep and no precedence to do anything based on previous viruses.  zip. nadda.  they projected that new york would be underwater today, and nope!!! you keep your projections,  you be stupid.


You seem to think that projections are garbage.  Well tell that to the crew of apollo 13, whose survival was based on NASA's projections of power and fuel and life support.

Projections are real, and the 90% effectiveness of the lockdown (as leaky as it was) was proved.


----------



## Ame®icano (May 1, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...



Not true. Incubation period for corona virus is 2-14 days. For comparison, that period for flu is 1-4 days. 

What if you've been isolated and away from other people for 14 days, or a month? 

Simply, you don't have it. Neither one, corona virus or flu.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (May 1, 2020)

Hutch Starskey said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...


Prior post and outside meaning outside your house not outside into the woods. You’re really that dumb? Don’t answer that.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (May 1, 2020)

Pogo said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


Record and not have one are not the same thing. 85% of people show mild to no symptoms


----------



## Ame®icano (May 1, 2020)

meaner gene said:


> U2Edge said:
> 
> 
> > What you forget are those "FACTS" are based on the environment of lockdown and not what the virus would be doing without a lockdown.
> ...



Every day there are more indicators that the actual number of deaths from corona virus is about quarter of what "official" count is. 

You may die in car accident, but if they test you for corona virus post mortem, you will be counted as COVID-19 death.

For comparion...

Total US deaths *Jan-Apr 2018* ----- 630,973
Total US deaths *Jan-Apr 2020* ----- 610,693


----------



## Ame®icano (May 1, 2020)

jc456 said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...



Do I look like I care what he wants?


----------



## Ame®icano (May 1, 2020)

meaner gene said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



You're comparing it to Vietnam?

Than these would be battles, right.... ?





Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## Ame®icano (May 1, 2020)

Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## Ame®icano (May 1, 2020)

Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## Ame®icano (May 1, 2020)

Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## Hutch Starskey (May 1, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...





AzogtheDefiler said:


> Prior post and outside meaning outside your house not outside into the woods. You’re really that dumb? Don’t answer that.


It's the post I responded to, dope.
Either way you don't catch it by going outside.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (May 1, 2020)

Hutch Starskey said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...


You won't catch it at a grocery or hardware store? Why? You don't know who touched those tomatoes or paint brushes before you?? You are a typical leftist. Stupid.


----------



## Hutch Starskey (May 1, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> You won't catch it at a grocery or hardware store? Why? You don't know who touched those tomatoes or paint brushes before you?? You are a typical leftist. Stupid.


Quit while you're behind. You just said outside your house to get the mail, dope.


----------



## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

meaner gene said:


> Since the other guy loves "numbers" that means lockdowns are over 90% effective.





Ame®icano said:


> Every day there are more indicators that the actual number of deaths from corona virus is about quarter of what "official" count is.
> 
> You may die in car accident, but if they test you for corona virus post mortem, you will be counted as COVID-19 death.
> 
> ...



First, the number of car accidents because of lockdowns and travel restrictions are way down, probably down by 10K per quarter.

_Annual United States Road Crash Statistics
More than 38,000 people die every year in crashes on U.S. roadways. The U.S. traffic fatality rate is 12.4 deaths per 100,000 inhabitants. An additional 4.4 million are injured seriously enough to require medical attention. _


----------



## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> You may die in car accident, but if they test you for corona virus post mortem, you will be counted as COVID-19 death.
> 
> For comparion...
> 
> ...



Even if you take every driving fatality as being from the coronavirus (they just assume so without testing)  how much would that change the numbers?

Only by 10%.


----------



## Ame®icano (May 1, 2020)

meaner gene said:


> meaner gene said:
> 
> 
> > Since the other guy loves "numbers" that means lockdowns are over 90% effective.
> ...



You completely missed the point.

Those are not car accident deaths, those are ALL deaths in the US during the same period in 2018, and 2020.


----------



## Ame®icano (May 1, 2020)

meaner gene said:


> Ame®icano said:
> 
> 
> > You may die in car accident, but if they test you for corona virus post mortem, you will be counted as COVID-19 death.
> ...



Who is talking about driving fatalities? Just you. 

You may die from cancer, but if but if they test you for corona virus post mortem, you will be counted as COVID-19 death. 

Total of ALL deaths in US in Jan-Apr period in 2020 is lower that total of ALL deaths in the same period of 2018.


----------



## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

Ame®icano said:


> You completely missed the point.
> 
> Those are not car accident deaths, those are ALL deaths in the US during the same period in 2018, and 2020.



The criteria for testing is that the patient be "symptomatic", fever, dry cough, etc.  Unless a car crash victim shows those symptoms, they would not test them, whether they died or recovered.

Are the numbers wrong?  Probably.  But they're off by no more than 10%-15%.

Which doesn't change the situation by much.   This isn't like an election where 1000 votes out of millions can make a difference.


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## AzogtheDefiler (May 1, 2020)

Hutch Starskey said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > You won't catch it at a grocery or hardware store? Why? You don't know who touched those tomatoes or paint brushes before you?? You are a typical leftist. Stupid.
> ...


I said grocery store too. I have said it multiple times in that context. Go and check since you have nothing better to do. Stupid Leftist.


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## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> I said grocery store too. I have said it multiple times in that context. Go and check since you have nothing better to do. Stupid Leftist.



And even there, the risk is based on the product you're touching.  Most standard products, such as in cans, or boxes, only have multiple touches for comparison shopping (calories / sodium / sugar / fat / protein)  the rest are touched only by the customer.   I would be worried about fresh fruit and vegetables, where people touch half of them before selecting.


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## RealDave (May 1, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> 
> 
> Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.
> ...


 Great thinking.........not.    Not all States are equal in the threat.

You Trumpettes are just plain dumber than shit.


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## AzogtheDefiler (May 1, 2020)

meaner gene said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > I said grocery store too. I have said it multiple times in that context. Go and check since you have nothing better to do. Stupid Leftist.
> ...


BINGO!!! There you have it.


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## AzogtheDefiler (May 1, 2020)

RealDave said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> ...


ZERO to do with Trump. You have to bring him into every discussion because you suffer from TDS.


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## RealDave (May 1, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...



Trump supporters as a group are dumber than shit.  Not my fault.


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## Likkmee (May 1, 2020)

RealDave said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...


So. You voted for Hillary ?


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## AzogtheDefiler (May 1, 2020)

RealDave said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...


Dave, I have seen numerous posts by you. Honestly, you should not be calling anyone dumb.


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## sparky (May 1, 2020)

the lockdown 'worked' for da GubMit Az

they've f*cked over just about every amendment

and don't tell me it's  a 'dem thing'

they all want us under their heel

~S~


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## Hutch Starskey (May 1, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> > AzogtheDefiler said:
> ...


I already quoted what you posted and what I responded to, idiot.
Give it up already.


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## AzogtheDefiler (May 1, 2020)

Hutch Starskey said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> > Hutch Starskey said:
> ...


You seem upset. Need a safe space? Going to grocery stores and such puts one at risk. But a tiny risk because this whole thing is overblown.


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## meaner gene (May 1, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> meaner gene said:
> 
> 
> > I would be worried about fresh fruit and vegetables, where people touch half of them before selecting.
> ...



*Hydrogen peroxide* is one of the best choices and especially good for germs or disease pathogens. Use a 50/50 mixture of water and the 3 percent product right out of the bottle from the grocery store. Spray or soak the *produce* in the mix, *rinse*, dry and enjoy


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## Wapasha (May 1, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Wapasha said:
> 
> 
> > U2Edge said:
> ...



Just the week before, our medical science was not even sure the disease could be transmitted between humans, and yet you wanted Trump to shut down all travel? Based upon what science, what empirical evidence?



U2Edge said:


> Answer to some of your questions:
> 
> Yes, the virus can stay airborne long enough to be carried by indoor building ventilation systems.
> 
> ...


A lot of the assertions you made sound dubious, I'd have to see some links that support them.

Many states have been doing antigen testing, which throws the mortality rates way down into the 0.xx categories. Some of the people testing positive remember being sick back in December and November. If this anecdotal evidence were true, then even if Trump went completely rogue, and shut down all travel into the USA on Jan 20th, it would have been too late, the infection was already here, months earlier.

I've read other articles, but here is one I just found:

After testing positive for antibodies, Minnesota man thinks he may have had COVID-19 in December


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## Wapasha (May 1, 2020)

meaner gene said:


> U2Edge said:
> 
> 
> > What you forget are those "FACTS" are based on the environment of lockdown and not what the virus would be doing without a lockdown.
> ...


If the lockdowns in NYC, for example, are working so wonderfully, why are so many deaths and new infections occurring weeks after the lockdowns went into place? We are just making wild assed guesses that the lockdowns are 90% effective.


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## U2Edge (May 1, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> U2Edge said:
> 
> 
> > Wapasha said:
> ...



Based on the science of pandemics TAIWAN had more than enough information to shut and restrict travel on January 20, 2020. They did not have a single confirmed case in TAIWAN yet, but through their intelligence services, they already knew the degree to which the pathogen had spread in China and that information ALONE was enough to justify their action on January 20, 2020. The United States had the same information from its intelligence services or if not would have learned it from TAIWAN. The information was there, the question is, what did you do about it. TAIWAN shut down on January 20, 2020 and are now enjoying the benefits of that decision. The United States did virtually nothing for nearly the next two months. TAIWAN is only 100 miles from China, but it takes less than 14 hours to get to the United States from China through air-travel. So every single day that the United States WAITED to do what TAIWAN did on January 20, 2020, put the United States further in the HOLE, and allowed the pathogen to penetrate deeper into the population to the DEGREE that locking down the much of the economy would be the only option. 

Now look at the situation between TAIWAN and the UNITED STATES:

TAIWAN: 429 infections, 6 deaths. Only 99 of the 429 infections are still active and are declining. By the end of the month TAIWAN will have completely eliminated the virus from the country, probably with only 6 deaths. No one has died from covid-19 in TAIWAN in almost a month. 

UNITED STATES: 1,130,000 infections, 65,000 deaths. New infections are increasing by 30,000 per day, and over 2,000 people are dying ever day. 


Tell you what, lets look at these numbers between the United States and TAIWAN on June 1, 2020. TAIWAN will probably still only have 6 deaths and the virus will be eliminated. The United States I fear could have as many as 100,000 deaths by then with the virus still spreading. 

In TAIWAN's case, you have almost total success in fighting and containing the pathogen. The United States efforts by comparison look like a total failure. The United States is also about to overtake Italy and Switzerland in total infections on a per capita basis. Imagine that, the United States more infected than even ITALY!


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## U2Edge (May 1, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> meaner gene said:
> 
> 
> > U2Edge said:
> ...



Because the virus heavily penetrated New York City to such a degree BEFORE lockdowns were put in place and are there for not having the impact they would have had they been implemented earlier. New York City is densely populated. The success of lockdowns depend on individuals isolating themselves from others and maintaining that isolation. It can take several weeks from the virus to spread in a single household as well. Some people remain asymptomatic, others take weeks to show symptoms. This virus takes time to do its work and works at different rates in different people. Two months ago, there were only 69 infections in the United States and 1 death. Two months make a big difference, and the lockdowns in New York City did not come until the end of March. 

If New York City can maintain its lockdown, and most of the individuals in New York City abide by the lockdown, then I think by June 1, 2020 you will start to see a significant decline in daily cases compared to now. Again, this virus does its damage slowly and is very stealthy. It will take time for New York City to rid itself of much of this first wave.


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## Wapasha (May 1, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Wapasha said:
> 
> 
> > meaner gene said:
> ...


The virus can take several weeks to infect people, even though they are living in the same home as an infected person?  You really need to back up statements like that with some kind of proof.

I do agree, that leaving the subway systems continue to operate surely helped spread the disease, completely wiping out the lockdown protocol.


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## jc456 (May 1, 2020)

meaner gene said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> > yep and no precedence to do anything based on previous viruses.  zip. nadda.  they projected that new york would be underwater today, and nope!!! you keep your projections,  you be stupid.
> ...


They are. Thanks for asking


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## jc456 (May 1, 2020)

Wapasha said:


> meaner gene said:
> 
> 
> > U2Edge said:
> ...


Naw, they’re useless, they shifted deaths from every category to wuhan flu. Look it up


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## Pogo (May 1, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> Wapasha said:
> 
> 
> > U2Edge said:
> ...



The graph of that looks like this:





compared to:


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## Fort Fun Indiana (May 1, 2020)

We will put this idiot claim to the test as we re open.


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## Likkmee (May 2, 2020)

It looks quite painful


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## Andylusion (May 2, 2020)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
> 
> 
> Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.
> ...



Exactly.  That's been my question the entire time.  When I looked at Europe, I didn't see any real effect between states with drastic lock down measures, and those that didn't.

Equally there is now evidence that wearing the masks does not by any statistically significant measure, actually reduce transmission.


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## EvilCat Breath (May 2, 2020)

The lockdown worked perfectly.  That's why democrat governors want to keep the people locked down.  The purpose of the lockdown is economic chaos.  It was never a fight against a virus.  It was always a fight against capitalism.


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## Hutch Starskey (May 2, 2020)

Tipsycatlover said:


> The lockdown worked perfectly.  That's why democrat governors want to keep the people locked down.  The purpose of the lockdown is economic chaos.  It was never a fight against a virus.  It was always a fight against capitalism.


Yes.......and the entire world is in on it.


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## KGB (May 2, 2020)

U2Edge said:


> KGB said:
> 
> 
> > U2Edge said:
> ...



Let me put it to you bluntly.  This virus has nuked & firebombed the *ENTIRE PLANET*.  Not just two cities or one country.  There isn't a safe haven to be found.  And comparing Imperial Japan to the modern day US is disingenuous to the extreme.  The GDPs of the two are not even in the ballpark.  We are a superpower unmatched in human history, & that includes the Roman Empire.  Imperial Japan wouldn't even register a decimal point in comparison.  The Japanese had us to basically rebuild them as did Germany.  Who do we have now?  Only ourselves & every day, we keep making that harder & harder.

No, this does not rate in comparison to back then because it is far worse *now*.  And no, you can't bring back those who have died, but you can't bring back those who have died due to automobile accidents, cancer, heart disease, violent crime, etc., either.


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## KGB (May 2, 2020)

meaner gene said:


> KGB said:
> 
> 
> > You really don’t understand economics do you?  You think just like that, all those people will suddenly go back to work?  A lot of those places those people worked shut down permanently.
> ...



A good many of them will not return regardless. They can't even get the promised cash now.


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