# 81% of Americans under 45 would fail basic ‘US citizenship test’



## longknife (Oct 5, 2018)

*What the hell has happened to our education system? One would think that pride in this country would call for teaching our youths all the things that give them futures not available anywhere else in the world.*

_Just one-in-three Americans passed the multiple choice exam that is undertaken by foreigners. Shockingly, 87 percent of respondents did not know that the US Constitution was ratified in 1787, while 60 percent of respondents couldn't identify which countries fought in World War II against the US and its allies._

_While many Americans aren’t shy when it comes to expressing their opinion regarding the controversy surrounding US Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh, only 43 percent knew the actual number of justices (nine) that protect the nation’s constitution._

_Some 72 percent failed to correctly identify the 13 original states from a list of options offered to them in the multiple-choice questions._

_The problem with basic civic knowledge seems to be more acute for those aged 45 and under, with only 19 percent passing the mock test. Those 65 years and older, however, managed to answer the questions with 74-percent success rate._

By the time I reached my junior year in high school, I’d had at least 5 classes about American history and government. Why is it no longer important in our education system?

More of this disgusting stuff @ ‘Woefully uninformed’: 81% of Americans under 45 would fail basic ‘US citizenship test’

*Americans Have Almost Entirely Forgotten Their History* @ Americans Have Almost Entirely Forgotten Their History


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 5, 2018)

The education system will have to be wrested from the Progressives by force.

They will not give it up easily.  It is the key to their power.


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## Penelope (Oct 5, 2018)

longknife said:


> *What the hell has happened to our education system? One would think that pride in this country would call for teaching our youths all the things that give them futures not available anywhere else in the world.*
> 
> _Just one-in-three Americans passed the multiple choice exam that is undertaken by foreigners. Shockingly, 87 percent of respondents did not know that the US Constitution was ratified in 1787, while 60 percent of respondents couldn't identify which countries fought in World War II against the US and its allies._
> 
> ...



Because you have people like Devos in charge. She is single handenly destroying public education.


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## Unkotare (Oct 5, 2018)

The 13 colonies, and the Constitution, and all that are still taught in school. People just forget.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 5, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> The 13 colonies, and the Constitution, and all that are still taught in school. People just forget.



I didn't, and aced the practice test not long ago.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 5, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Unkotare said:
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> > The 13 colonies, and the Constitution, and all that are still taught in school. People just forget.
> ...



Well, aren't you just special!


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## K9Buck (Oct 6, 2018)

I took one of their 24-question tests.  To say it was simple would be a massive understatement.  That only 1/3 of Americans can pass the test blows my mind.  The education system is a DISASTER.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 6, 2018)

K9Buck said:


> I took one of their 24-question tests.  To say it was simple would be a massive understatement.  That only 1/3 of Americans can pass the test blows my mind.  The education system is a DISASTER.



Do you not understand the difference in being taught something and then retaking the knowledge?

Of course you don't because you don't know anything about learning.


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## K9Buck (Oct 6, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> K9Buck said:
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> > I took one of their 24-question tests.  To say it was simple would be a massive understatement.  That only 1/3 of Americans can pass the test blows my mind.  The education system is a DISASTER.
> ...



Did you take the test?  It's a joke.  That 1/3 of Americans can't pass it is an abomination.  One doesn't need a master's degree from Georgetown to pass it.


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> The 13 colonies, and the Constitution, and all that are still taught in school. People just forget.


I thought you were a teacher? Their was only 12 ..


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## WheelieAddict (Oct 6, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> The education system will have to be wrested from the Progressives by force.
> 
> They will not give it up easily.  It is the key to their power.


People who rely on facts resist buying into fake news? So surprising lol.


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## WheelieAddict (Oct 6, 2018)

longknife said:


> *What the hell has happened to our education system? One would think that pride in this country would call for teaching our youths all the things that give them futures not available anywhere else in the world.*
> 
> _Just one-in-three Americans passed the multiple choice exam that is undertaken by foreigners. Shockingly, 87 percent of respondents did not know that the US Constitution was ratified in 1787, while 60 percent of respondents couldn't identify which countries fought in World War II against the US and its allies._
> 
> ...


rt.com is a russian propaganda site btw.


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## WheelieAddict (Oct 6, 2018)

This is how propaganda works nowadays. Propaganda websites post slanted bullshit and willing morons post it everywhere.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 6, 2018)

K9Buck said:


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Yes,  I have taken the test. I also taught the subject for 21 years so knock off the bullshit about it not being taught. The human brain categorizes the importance of information to be remembered. It is simply not being retained by choice. 

That is nothing new. I cannot remember my daughter's phone number because I have no need to ever use it. My cell phone remembers it for me.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 6, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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That is in part what's wrong with public school victims.  More dependent upon machines than their own brain.

What happens when the battery runs down?


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## K9Buck (Oct 6, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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Where did I say it wasn't being taught?  You must have confused me for someone else.


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## frigidweirdo (Oct 6, 2018)

longknife said:


> *What the hell has happened to our education system? One would think that pride in this country would call for teaching our youths all the things that give them futures not available anywhere else in the world.*
> 
> _Just one-in-three Americans passed the multiple choice exam that is undertaken by foreigners. Shockingly, 87 percent of respondents did not know that the US Constitution was ratified in 1787, while 60 percent of respondents couldn't identify which countries fought in World War II against the US and its allies._
> 
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Well, is this an issue with the education system not teaching pointless rubbish, or the test being full of pointless rubbish?


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## K9Buck (Oct 6, 2018)

frigidweirdo said:


> longknife said:
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> > *What the hell has happened to our education system? One would think that pride in this country would call for teaching our youths all the things that give them futures not available anywhere else in the world.*
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I think the education system teaches statistics and facts instead of teaching values learned from history.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 6, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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Oh, please knock off the bullshit!  You are embarrassing yourself!

Without looking it up, can you tell me what the 23rd Amendment to the Constitution regards?

Of course you can't!  If you can, it is because you deem that important to you.  Why you would want to remember it, I have no idea!

FYI, I have her number written down, because there is no reason to remember it as long as I have my phone.  Just like I have the ability to look up the 23rd Amendment should need it.  I just happen to know because I used it so much in my instruction.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 6, 2018)

K9Buck said:


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Every one of you education bashers have the same M.O.!  It's obviously the fault of the teacher's unions, right?


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## Weatherman2020 (Oct 6, 2018)

Teacher friends explained it on how they are required to teach. At this grade they learn this period of history. Next grade the next period of history. And so forth. 

No repetition at all. No way children can learn anything that way.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 6, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Teacher friends explained it on how they are required to teach. At this grade they learn this period of history. Next grade the next period of history. And so forth.
> 
> No repetition at all. No way children can learn anything that way.



Your teacher friend is full of shit, respectfully.


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## Weatherman2020 (Oct 6, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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> > Teacher friends explained it on how they are required to teach. At this grade they learn this period of history. Next grade the next period of history. And so forth.
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California. It’s true. And it’s plural.


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## K9Buck (Oct 6, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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I think you took too much acid back in the day.  You keep attributing arguments to me that I've NEVER made and then attack me for those arguments.  I sense that engaging you is a colossal waste of time.


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## K9Buck (Oct 6, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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> > Teacher friends explained it on how they are required to teach. At this grade they learn this period of history. Next grade the next period of history. And so forth.
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You're a very bitter, angry little twat.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 6, 2018)

K9Buck said:


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OK, my apologies if I read you wrong on those points.  However, you tend to follow the conservitard path of bashing education because you were educated, so you think you are an expert on teaching.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 6, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


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Well, what do you expect?  California rates so low compared to other states because no one speaks fricking English!


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 6, 2018)

K9Buck said:


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You, on the other hand are an know-it-all who actually doesn't know shit!


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## Unkotare (Oct 6, 2018)

K9Buck said:


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You are wrong


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## rightwinger (Oct 6, 2018)

K9Buck said:


> I took one of their 24-question tests.  To say it was simple would be a massive understatement.  That only 1/3 of Americans can pass the test blows my mind.  The education system is a DISASTER.



I have seen the test
It is not that difficult 

But much of the information in Civics is not relevant to people’s every day lives. Do you need to know there are 435 Congressmen in the House? Is nine justices relevant to your daily life? Most Americans remember 1776 but not 1787

Those studying for citizenship learn these factoids but probably forget after 20-30 years


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## frigidweirdo (Oct 6, 2018)

K9Buck said:


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The problem is that politicians politicize education. They want to make it quantifiable so they can tell everyone they increased this or that. It's what people understand. 

But it's not necessarily good for the long term. But then US politics stopped being about the long term a long time ago.


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## Unkotare (Oct 6, 2018)

Many people forget the content about 20 minutes after a test. Many people are just plain stupid.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Oct 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Many people forget the content about 20 minutes after a test. Many people are just plain stupid.



Yet, you're against eugenics to correct stupidity, why complain about things you reject a solution for?


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 6, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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Why should I bother?  You would claim I looked in up in any case.

And if your power goes out?


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## Unkotare (Oct 6, 2018)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Unkotare said:
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> > Many people forget the content about 20 minutes after a test. Many people are just plain stupid.
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The absence of morality is a form of stupidity. I wouldn’t expect the likes of you to understand.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 6, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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In part, because the unions make it difficult to fire incompetent teachers.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Oct 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


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Positive eugenics is pretty morality neutral, and reaps great benefits for future generations.


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## Unkotare (Oct 6, 2018)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


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As I was saying...


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Oct 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


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Positive Eugenics doesn't involve killing, or sterlizations of the stupid. (So you don't have to worry)

It's basically incentives like tax rewards for smart people, and tax penalties for stupid people having kids.

I tend to find it more immoral to allow the future generations to become stupid, like you insist.


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## rightwinger (Oct 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Many people forget the content about 20 minutes after a test. Many people are just plain stupid.


The content is not really relevant to being a “good citizen”

Good citizens vote, volunteer in their community, help their neighbors

Memorizing civics facts and historical dates does not make you a good citizen


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 6, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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I also have these things called "books". Perhaps you have heard of them?

Now, be honest, you could not answer that question, could you?


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Oct 6, 2018)

rightwinger said:


> Unkotare said:
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> > Many people forget the content about 20 minutes after a test. Many people are just plain stupid.
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Good citizens don't vote, because Democrats have killed millions, and Republicans have killed millions.

But, keep root, root, rooting for your Political parties of genocide, like they're "Sports team" that's real smart, and ethical. (Rolls eyes)


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## rightwinger (Oct 6, 2018)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


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Pretty sick shit

Get sterilized and we will pay you $5,000


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 6, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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Another myth created by the education bashers!


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Oct 6, 2018)

rightwinger said:


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Positive eugenics doesn't involve sterlization, idiot.


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## rightwinger (Oct 6, 2018)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


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Well, Mr Good Citizen

Good Citizens work to solve problems in their society. They protest the abuses of society, they reward politicians who work for the common good

What do you do?


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## rightwinger (Oct 6, 2018)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


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Sure it doesn’t 
It bribes people it does not feel worthy not to procreate


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Oct 6, 2018)

rightwinger said:


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I protest the abuses, and idiocy of both Democrats, and Republicans.

Most here just cheer like cheer-leader ditz  for their Political party of genocide blitz.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Oct 6, 2018)

rightwinger said:


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What's your solution?
To continue to allow lower IQ people, and criminals to have more kids than the normal people, much less the high IQ, non criminals?

You're failing future generations, and Liberal Individualshits don't get it.


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 6, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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Not necessarily, I know the jist to all 27 like I still remember every state capital and all the books in the Bible 40 years later , it was required I memorized them .


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## rightwinger (Oct 6, 2018)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


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You sound more like Hitler every day


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Oct 6, 2018)

rightwinger said:


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That's all Liberal tards have to everything, is Hitler screech, screech.

Well, what about things Hitler, and his Nazis did which you enjoy, like Volkswagen, anti-tobacco campaigns, Apocalyptic global warming, etc etc.

But, that's besides the point.

Tell me the benefits of dumbing down society, exactly?


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Oct 6, 2018)

rightwinger said:


> Unkotare said:
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> > Many people forget the content about 20 minutes after a test. Many people are just plain stupid.
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A.) Smart people invented most of modern tech, and science you use.

B.) Smart people invented most of the modern forms of government you support.

C.) Smart people tend to create better societies, point blank.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 6, 2018)

rightwinger said:


> Unkotare said:
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> > Many people forget the content about 20 minutes after a test. Many people are just plain stupid.
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Not having a basic knowledge of the Constitution and not knowing how government works makes you a worthless citizen.  Dead wood.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 6, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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DC Electoral College.

I have things called "books" too.  37,000+ of them the last time I counted, which was quite awhile back.  Roughly a third of them being non-fiction.

Not to mention the art portfolios, newspapers and magazines from significant historical dates and stacks of law books that go from current to the 1950s.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Oct 6, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> rightwinger said:
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What percentage of Americans follow the Founding Fathers, exactly?

I've made threads on the Founding Fathers, and they don't sound like most anyone even on this forum. IMO.

Founding Fathers not Capitalists.

Founding Fathers more like Hamas, or Israel?

Founding Fathers like Arabs, Fascists rather than modern Republicans / Democrats.


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## rightwinger (Oct 6, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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Have you actually read the Constitution?
Most is information setting up the three branches of Government. The bill of rights is critical to good citizenship....the rest is of little value to the day to day realities of citizenship

Knowing the details of how a bill gets passed or how elections are conducted does not help most people

What most people need to know is which candidate best reflects their interests


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Oct 6, 2018)

Just think RightWinger without smart people we could not see your Online Liberal drivels against smart people & Polak.

For every gift there is a curse.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 6, 2018)

rightwinger said:


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So ... you're dead wood.

I suspected as much.


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## rightwinger (Oct 6, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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Know more about Civics than you do Skippy


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Oct 6, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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Billy_Kinetta said:


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He is anti-intellect.

Little does he know that smart people inventing tech since the early days of the Industrial Revolution increased production erasing slavery and increasing wealth significantly.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Oct 6, 2018)

If not for smart people Rightwinger would be driving a Donkey rather than a car. Knowing him he would prob drive the Donkey stick shift.


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## Unkotare (Oct 6, 2018)

rightwinger said:


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Most naturalized citizens do all that.


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## Unkotare (Oct 6, 2018)

rightwinger said:


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It doesn’t hurt.


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## Unkotare (Oct 6, 2018)

rightwinger said:


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You boys gonna measure in centimeters or millimeters?


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Oct 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


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Intelligence seems to be linked to better citizens, actually.

The book the Bell Curve set a big blow for the Liberals on that.'

Why is that surprising, exactly?

Intelligent people tend to make better decisions for themselves, and others.

That's news to who? Why exactly?


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## Unkotare (Oct 6, 2018)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


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Speaking of which, did you move to Poland yet? As soon as the door hits you on the ass (or head, who can tell with you?) our national IQ will leap upward.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Oct 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


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Don't confuse EQ for IQ.

That's what most Liberals do, they think EQ dictates IQ.

I may have a low EQ, EQ is pretty worthless anyways.

I do however have a high IQ, especially in Spatial Ability.


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## ptbw forever (Oct 6, 2018)

Some of the "answers" to the questions are incomplete or wrong or the questions themselves are propaganda.


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## rightwinger (Oct 6, 2018)

ptbw forever said:


> Some of the "answers" to the questions are incomplete or wrong or the questions themselves are propaganda.


Such as?


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 6, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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I can't remember the last time I read a fiction book, it must of been one of Tom clancy's , if it's fiction I don't want to read it.

.


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 6, 2018)

rightwinger said:


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Their best interest? I thought we were a community according to the left????

So only if it's in the best interest of the left and screw the law and screw the Constitution that makes America work somehow?


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 6, 2018)

rightwinger said:


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Visions of grandeur.


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## rightwinger (Oct 6, 2018)

bear513 said:


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Such a drama queen


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## eflatminor (Oct 6, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> The education system will have to be wrested from the Progressives by force.
> 
> They will not give it up easily.  It is the key to their power.



Agreed.  Time to end the government monopoly over affordable education.


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 6, 2018)

rightwinger said:


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Drama queen my butt, you prove it that the left only cares about themselves and not some Bible thumper in Oklahoma..


You sound like Bill Maher last night bitching why Wyoming is even a state and gets two senators .


.


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## rightwinger (Oct 6, 2018)

bear513 said:


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<sob>. But....but....what about the law and what about the constitution?
Only conservatives care!   <sob>

Have you always been such a pussy?


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 6, 2018)

bear513 said:


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I don't read much fiction myself these days.

I mean, you can't write an equal to the nonsense that's currently occurring on a global scale.


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## rightwinger (Oct 6, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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When I want to hear fiction......I listen to Donald Trump


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## ptbw forever (Oct 6, 2018)

rightwinger said:


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What are two rights in the Declaration of Independence?

The answer is technically that there are no rights in the document as the Constitution is the law of the land, which another question explains.


Who vetos?

The head of whatever level of government you are talking about, not just the president


What is Benjamin Franklin famous for?

Endless list that 5 bullet points doesn't justify


Who is in charge of the executive branch?

The head of whatever level of government you are talking about, not just the president.


What movement TRIED to end racial discrimination?

Extremely vague and open ended question designed to virtue signal.


What was one important thing Lincoln did?

A president deserves more than 3 bullet points, much less than Lincoln.


What is the "rule of law"?

I speak English good.


Who is the "Father of Our Country"?

Founding FatherS


What group of people was taken to America and sold as slaves?

Another stupid virtue signal question with a bullshit answer.


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## Tresha91203 (Oct 6, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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I'm a conservative and an educator. Pointing out that our system fails in educating children in basic citizenship is not trashing the system. After 13 years of education, our children should know how our government works and how to function in our system. That our 17-year olds don't know this basic information IS a real problem IMO.


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## Freiheit (Oct 6, 2018)

Penelope said:


> longknife said:
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> > *What the hell has happened to our education system? One would think that pride in this country would call for teaching our youths all the things that give them futures not available anywhere else in the world.*
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You need to pull your head out of your rectum.  Devos has been in charge of the Education Dpt for about 2 years who was in charge the previous eight years?
Progressives oh dear did I say that?  Progressives and more progressives.  Bush had leftt wing loons in charge as well so your bitch about Davos has no weight.
Talk about robot parrots you are one.


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## Unkotare (Oct 6, 2018)

ptbw forever said:


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You should be forced to surrender your passport and be stripped of your citizenship.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Oct 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


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> > rightwinger said:
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Almost all anti-Racists seem to have a specific syndrome.

They're almost all severely ignorant, severely arrogant, and severely obnoxious, big mouths.

Be it race wise like IM2 (Black) or Rightwinger (White)  or Jillian (Jew) Ringel (Brown) or Democratic like  Bodecea, or Rightwinger, or Republican like P@triot, and yourself (Unkotare)

There's definitely something primitive about anti-Racists.


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## Weatherman2020 (Oct 6, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


And California having more population than most States combined means the left are chugging out morons by the truck load.


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## saveliberty (Oct 6, 2018)

Democrats require an uninformed citizenry.  That way they can solve all their problems for them.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 6, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



If you have all of those resources, why are you so stupid on the subject of education?

Looked it up, didn't you?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 6, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...





Tresha91203 said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > K9Buck said:
> ...



You didn't read the thread or my posts in it.

They do know how it works, when they take the test on it.  Then they do a data dump, because they don't feel any connection to the information.  You must not be a very good educator if you do not realize this happens.  The failure rates on final exams in my schools were astronomical because the kids refuse to retain the information because they see no reason to do so.  It did not matter what the subject was or who the teacher was.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 6, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Weatherman2020 said:
> ...



Yes, you hit the nail on the head.  They are mostly the offspring of illegals who cannot speak English well in school because no one speaks it at home.


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## Unkotare (Oct 6, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...





Now it’s your turn to be misinformed.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Weatherman2020 said:
> ...



Oh, really?  I know you are into ESOL, but that programs is a failure the vast majority of the time.  If you have success, great.  That doesn't change the rest of the country, or California,


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## Unkotare (Oct 7, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...





Define “failure” in this context.


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## Unkotare (Oct 7, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
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> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...





Wrong. Kids born in the US almost always acquire English as a first language regardless.


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## Tresha91203 (Oct 7, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



I did read the thread, including your posts. I actually am a good educator, as I teach for retention. It's not an education if the knowledge is not retained. That's the problem.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 7, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
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As a matter of fact, no.  We are not all as limited as you out here.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 7, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
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> > rightwinger said:
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We were not permitted "data dumps" when I was in school.  You memorized facts and tested often until you were a walking encyclopedia.


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## Correll (Oct 7, 2018)

longknife said:


> *What the hell has happened to our education system? One would think that pride in this country would call for teaching our youths all the things that give them futures not available anywhere else in the world.*
> 
> _Just one-in-three Americans passed the multiple choice exam that is undertaken by foreigners. Shockingly, 87 percent of respondents did not know that the US Constitution was ratified in 1787, while 60 percent of respondents couldn't identify which countries fought in World War II against the US and its allies._
> 
> ...




While I agree with the basis premise, some of these numbers are mostly spin.


The exact year that the Constitution was ratified? If some one thought it was ratified 1786, instead of 1787, does that really make them a bad American?


Or if someone thought forgot Rhode Island and counted Maine?


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## Erinwltr (Oct 7, 2018)

longknife said:


> *What the hell has happened to our education system? One would think that pride in this country would call for teaching our youths all the things that give them futures not available anywhere else in the world.*
> 
> _Just one-in-three Americans passed the multiple choice exam that is undertaken by foreigners. Shockingly, 87 percent of respondents did not know that the US Constitution was ratified in 1787, while 60 percent of respondents couldn't identify which countries fought in World War II against the US and its allies._
> 
> ...



Where is the link to the test?


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## Toro (Oct 7, 2018)

I don't know why people don't know this stuff.  We've been a country for almost 100 years.  You'd think people would have learned this by now.


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## Weatherman2020 (Oct 7, 2018)

Erinwltr said:


> longknife said:
> 
> 
> > *What the hell has happened to our education system? One would think that pride in this country would call for teaching our youths all the things that give them futures not available anywhere else in the world.*
> ...


Any 4 year old knows how to search the Internet.


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## SweetSue92 (Oct 7, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> The 13 colonies, and the Constitution, and all that are still taught in school. People just forget.



This.


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## SweetSue92 (Oct 7, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> K9Buck said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
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Took the words right out of my mouth.

It is taught but not retained. I mean look. Only 25% of the public votes in the midterms. That is pathetic, but that's what's important to the American public. Teachers can "make" students retain information long enough to regurgitate it on a test to pass in school. They cannot "make" students remember it 10, 20, 30 plus years later. 

Just like my algebra teachers could not "make" me retain all that math years later. I didn't use it, didn't need it. It's gone. It's not important to me.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 7, 2018)

SweetSue92 said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
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> > K9Buck said:
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I would venture to say that most people remember the words and melodies to most if not all pop songs from their school days.  Why?  Repetition.

I remember every Shakespeare monologue and soliloquy I memorized in the course of my high school acting career.  Why?  Repetition.

Facts are the same way.  You study, you memorize, you remember.

I also ... ahem ... remember every party I went to, and who was there, where it was, what I was drinking that night, and for the most part when it was.


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## SweetSue92 (Oct 7, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
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Do you know brain research? I do. I'm a teacher. 

In the first instance, melody attached to words sears to a different part of the brain than simple words alone. We know this. It's why people with alzheimers and dementia can recall song lyrics from long ago. Secondly, you are proving that Project Based Education works with your second example and Shakespeare. The words were attached to a play that would be performed, not just rote memorization and "facts". But conservatives generally hate that "liberal namby-pamby stuff"--but liberals are right in this. If the learning is unimportant and has no place in real life, or no end point, no one retains it. 

Conservatives generally suck at understanding education. I say this as a conservative, btw. 

In your third example, anything, again, that touched on your social emotional, REAL life will be long imprinted on your memory. If you make teenagers memorize long lists of facts that have no meaning to their real life, not only will they hate it, they won't remember it.

So, you just rather shot your whole case to smithereens with your examples.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 7, 2018)

SweetSue92 said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > SweetSue92 said:
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Nope.  You believe I did.  There's a difference.

My son was made to drill the first ten Constitutional amendments when he was nine.  They had no meaning to his real life, but he had to memorize them word for word regardless, and did.

That was twenty years ago.  He can still rattle them off.

In any event, the lack of memorization of facts in current educational practices and the dependence upon various machines to replace the brain is largely to blame for the public system turning out hordes of barely functional idiots.

When I was in school (old man mantra) the United States was ranked first in education in the world.  Now, we are twenty-seventh.  The product produced with all of these  Critical Thinking Skills and Project Based Education things seems to have completely faceplanted.  After all, one cannot think critically without something in one's head about which to critically think.

In any event, it was most unwise to replace American History and Civics with multicultural, gender and diversity studies.  The results are quite clear.


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## SweetSue92 (Oct 7, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



Your son can probably rattle that off because he was raised in a household where the Constitution was valued and honored; where this was part of who he was all around him. IOW it resonated with him. That's why he retained it for so many years. 

I totally agree that children must be taught the basics in a very "basic" way, NOT with technology. I completely agree that you cannot think critically if you have nothing to think critically ABOUT. You cannot construct thinking from no knowledge. Totally agree there. 

But we cannot end anymore with regurgitated facts. Google can give you that. Regurgitated facts is not LEARNING, as the educators in this thread are telling you--as you yourself said, when you said you can remember high school parties and song lyrics but not other things. I am explaining to you WHY you can. Good teachers know how to connect learning with THOSE things so kids can retain knowledge better. And actually learn.

And mostly, conservatives sneer and snort and it and want kids to go back to rote memorization as not only a launching pad to learning, but as the end-all. 

It's just bad practice. 

Conservatives do not do education well. They just don't


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 7, 2018)

SweetSue92 said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > SweetSue92 said:
> ...



If Google is available.  Who said anything about an "end"?



SweetSue92 said:


> Regurgitated facts is not LEARNING



But they ARE knowledge, and a path to further knowledge.  Intelligence is the ability to make connections between disparate facts.  If you don't know facts, there is nothing to connect.



SweetSue92 said:


> And mostly, conservatives sneer and snort and it and want kids to go back to rote memorization as not only a launching pad to learning, but as the end-all.



I know no one who considers it an "end-all".



SweetSue92 said:


> Conservatives do not do education well. They just don't



Moot.

In any event, I am not conservative, but liberal in the classic definition.


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## Unkotare (Oct 7, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> .......
> 
> I remember every Shakespeare monologue and soliloquy I memorized in the course of my high school acting career. ......


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## Unkotare (Oct 7, 2018)

SweetSue92 said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > SweetSue92 said:
> ...




Partisan generalities are not part of any productive discussion about education. Try to control your subjectivity or this will just devolve into bitter sniping like every other thread on this site.


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## Unkotare (Oct 7, 2018)

And in pendulum news today, some people have swung so far away from the boogeyman of "rote memorization" that they have just found a new way to undermine education.

Simply reproducing a static list of facts and figures without context or relevance will have limited results, but sitting around holding hands and discussing feelings about generalities devoid of concrete facts and figures will also produce nothing of much value. 

“Virtue is the golden mean between two vices, the one of excess and the other of deficiency” — Aristotle


Too much theory and feeling without fact is useless, just as a firehose of facts without context are. 

Many kids come to the US to study and find their grade-level math in our system to be a joke; things they learned many years prior. Why? Part of it is that they were taught formulas and then set to complete hundreds if not thousands of exercises until they had it down cold. In other words, they put in the _work_. Some people here seem to think that nose to the grindstone _work_ is abusive and oppressive. Such people miss the point at least as much as those who might suggest that memorizing Lincoln's hat size means you understand the significance of the Civil War.


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## Penelope (Oct 7, 2018)

bear513 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...



I don't care for any bible thumpers and why oh why does Wyoming get 2 Senators?  They should get one, and CA take the second.  They are overly represented.


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## Penelope (Oct 7, 2018)

saveliberty said:


> Democrats require an uninformed citizenry.  That way they can solve all their problems for them.



Actually I find Trumpets very misinformed.  They listen to his lies and propaganda like he is their God.


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## Unkotare (Oct 7, 2018)

Penelope said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...







Most ignorant, idiotic post of the day.


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## Correll (Oct 7, 2018)

Penelope said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




Because big states were not supposed to be able to push little states around. It was part of the deal from the beginning.


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## Unkotare (Oct 7, 2018)

Correll said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
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You would think that anyone with even a rudimentary education would know that.


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## rightwinger (Oct 7, 2018)

SweetSue92 said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > SweetSue92 said:
> ...


Memorizing the Bill of Rights, Preamble to the Constitution or Gettysburg Address means nothing without understanding the overarching meaning and relevance to our society

Most posters on this board still don’t understand the meaning of Freedom of Speech


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## CHAZBUKOWSKI (Oct 7, 2018)

longknife said:


> *What the hell has happened to our education system? One would think that pride in this country would call for teaching our youths all the things that give them futures not available anywhere else in the world.*
> 
> _Just one-in-three Americans passed the multiple choice exam that is undertaken by foreigners. Shockingly, 87 percent of respondents did not know that the US Constitution was ratified in 1787, while 60 percent of respondents couldn't identify which countries fought in World War II against the US and its allies._
> 
> ...


Meh.  In the grand schemes of things, I am not losing sleep over this.  We are putting increased pressure on our school systems to heavily emphasize the basics, specifically ELA and math, and everything else gets tossed into the ring where available.  People get upset when it is a subject they feel strongly about, whether it be music, U.S. History, Earth science, or whatever, but there is only so much time in the school day, so if the kids are not being hammered incessantly about history dates, I am no overly concerned.  Not to mention, this is really not an indicator of the failing of the public school systems, because this poll is not about students, but about Americans, in general. Not really sure how the school system is to blame for a 40 year old adult not remembering something he was likely taught 25 years previously.

And, before one gets their undies in a bunch, I am a history buff, and, in all likelihood, easily pass the citizenship test.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 7, 2018)

rightwinger said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



Don't try to pin your own failings on others to assuage your own guilt.


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## CHAZBUKOWSKI (Oct 7, 2018)

K9Buck said:


> I took one of their 24-question tests.  To say it was simple would be a massive understatement.  That only 1/3 of Americans can pass the test blows my mind.  The education system is a DISASTER.


Sorry your education failed you.


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## DrLove (Oct 7, 2018)

Yeah, even though 'RT' is Putin's propaganda arm and Daily Signal is extreme right wing Daily Signal - Media Bias/Fact Check - I have seen other studies with similar results and it's a disturbing trend.
To my best recollection, my daughter only had one government class in high school and pretty sure only one semester. 
By that time due to budget cuts they'd also eliminated PE, which majorly pissed me off. 
Both these things need to be restored or we're gonna end up with an Idiocracy run by obese, low information clowns. 
Oh wait


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## CHAZBUKOWSKI (Oct 7, 2018)

DrLove said:


> Yeah, even though 'RT' is Putin's propaganda arm and Daily Signal is extreme right wing Daily Signal - Media Bias/Fact Check - I have seen other studies with similar results and it's a disturbing trend.
> To my best recollection, my daughter only had one government class in high school and pretty sure only one semester.
> By that time due to budget cuts they'd also eliminated PE, which majorly pissed me off.
> Both these things need to be restored or we're gonna end up with an Idiocracy run by obese, low information clowns.
> Oh wait


At the expense of what, though?  Math?  Science?  ELA?


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## DrLove (Oct 7, 2018)

CHAZBUKOWSKI said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, even though 'RT' is Putin's propaganda arm and Daily Signal is extreme right wing Daily Signal - Media Bias/Fact Check - I have seen other studies with similar results and it's a disturbing trend.
> ...



Schools used to be able to walk and chew gum. Funding is now too low and the best teachers are finding occupations that pay better. Few want to go to college 4+ years to start at 30 grand or so.


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## CHAZBUKOWSKI (Oct 7, 2018)

DrLove said:


> CHAZBUKOWSKI said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...


Cannot say I have heard too many people claim that school funding is too low in the U.S.   As for teacher salaries, not too many places starting you at $30,000.  Average starting salary is close to $40,000, and average salary is $56,000.

I am thankful that my children are in a great school system.  But that was a conscious decision by my wife and I.  When we relocated, we decided based greatly on education opportunity, and when we bought a house, it was 100% with school system in mind.   Still, I don't blame the school systems too much for the problems we are having.  I blame parenting.  Too many parents not actively involved, or not willing to challenge their children.  Hell, I personally know at least 8-10 families who opt out of the state testing.  Not because they disagree with the curriculum or anything of that sort, but because they are trying to shelter their kids from pressure.  So many parents who do not instill a work ethic for school.  I have so many parents who are almost aghast that I have my kids doing what seems to be a relatively modest minimum expectation beyond schoolwork (30 minutes of reading non-school books per day, 30 minutes of work outside school on math and science, etc..). "I want my kids to be kids, to enjoy childhood, etc.."


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## CHAZBUKOWSKI (Oct 7, 2018)

DrLove said:


> CHAZBUKOWSKI said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...


Also, it has nothing to do with 'walk and chew gum', it has to do with X numbers of hours in a day.


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## Unkotare (Oct 7, 2018)

CHAZBUKOWSKI said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > CHAZBUKOWSKI said:
> ...




You'll find plenty of slack-ass losers spouting such shit on this site as well.


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## DrLove (Oct 7, 2018)

CHAZBUKOWSKI said:


> Cannot say I have heard too many people claim that school funding is too low in the U.S.   As for teacher salaries, not too many places starting you at $30,000.  Average starting salary is close to $40,000, and average salary is $56,000.
> 
> I am thankful that my children are in a great school system.  But that was a conscious decision by my wife and I.  When we relocated, we decided based greatly on education opportunity, and when we bought a house, it was 100% with school system in mind.   Still, I don't blame the school systems too much for the problems we are having.  I blame parenting.  Too many parents not actively involved, or not willing to challenge their children.  Hell, I personally know at least 8-10 families who opt out of the state testing.  Not because they disagree with the curriculum or anything of that sort, but because they are trying to shelter their kids from pressure.  So many parents who do not instill a work ethic for school.  I have so many parents who are almost aghast that I have my kids doing what seems to be a relatively modest minimum expectation beyond schoolwork (30 minutes of reading non-school books per day, 30 minutes of work outside school on math and science, etc..). "I want my kids to be kids, to enjoy childhood, etc.."



STARTING salary - Not average. In Idaho it is barely over 30k

_The national average starting teacher salary is *$38,617*, while the average teacher salary in America (non-starting) is $58,950. Sep 1, 2017_

Placing the most of the blame on parents is a copout. Just my opinion. I yanked my daughter out of high school her senior year and she finished online prior to heading off to college. Class sizes were too big, she wasn't doing well, and getting teacher to call or email me back was like pulling teeth. She finished strong with As and Bs.


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 7, 2018)

Penelope said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



So it looks like you would fail the test..

.


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 7, 2018)

DrLove said:


> CHAZBUKOWSKI said:
> 
> 
> > Cannot say I have heard too many people claim that school funding is too low in the U.S.   As for teacher salaries, not too many places starting you at $30,000.  Average starting salary is close to $40,000, and average salary is $56,000.
> ...



Then start donating your money to the state of Idaho, nothing stopping you.


.


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## DrLove (Oct 7, 2018)

Penelope said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



They're never going to get it Penelope. Right now, 30% of Congress has 70% of the representational power. Representation should be CLOSE if not equal. And those who won't admit that our Founding Fathers had no clue that one day there would be a California, Texas, Florida or New York with 40-60 times as many people as Wyoming, Alaska, Montana or the Dakotas are idiots. 

Misrepresentation in the House of Representatives
Smaller States Find Outsize Clout Growing in Senate


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 7, 2018)

DrLove said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
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Get what reading the Constitution and the senate was supposed to be representing state rights and the house represents people's rights?


And for the millionth time people's morals and values are different in Billings Montana then in LA


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## DrLove (Oct 7, 2018)

bear513 said:


> DrLove said:
> 
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> > Penelope said:
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Sorry - Holier-than-thous in Montana have no right to obscenely disproportional representation.


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## Penelope (Oct 7, 2018)

DrLove said:


> Penelope said:
> 
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And they had no idea slavery would not last and women would get to vote,  the maj of people are able to read and the US postal service would no longer be by pony express.


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## DrLove (Oct 7, 2018)

Penelope said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
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These constitutional originalists are hilarious. There is nothing in the constitution about automobiles or space travel either. Same can be said about the second amendment. Those who believe our Founding Fathers could have imagined an AK-47 with a 100 round drum when all they had at the time were single round Flintlocks and such are equally idiotic. The first 6 round Colt 45 wasn't invented until 1839.


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 7, 2018)

Penelope said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
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Of course they did that's why the Constitution was written the way it is, abolitionist was already present in those times


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## SweetSue92 (Oct 7, 2018)

CHAZBUKOWSKI said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > CHAZBUKOWSKI said:
> ...



I have mixed feelings about homework in elem. school, esp. in the younger grades. I would be thrilled if parents would just hold their children to responsibility and behavior expectations at home and school. Do chores, contribute to the family, do not be disruptive at school, you don't have that right. Etc. 

Instead modern parents bring their child to school with the attitude "What can  you do for MY CHILD" without any expectation that the family and child will also be expected to contribute even the smallest thing....like respect. That the school is a community, actually. 

In short most people are takers these days. And it's exhausting.


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 7, 2018)

DrLove said:


> Penelope said:
> 
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Nothing about radio, television, internet either they all fall under the first amendment. What did you think they didn't know new shit would be invented? 


.


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## Unkotare (Oct 7, 2018)

rightwinger said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...




And memorizing them can be part of developing that understanding.


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## Penelope (Oct 7, 2018)

bear513 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
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> > DrLove said:
> ...



But they never thought slaves would be free. Well lets not play this game. They had no idea that there would be weapons like today, and the internet.  In England and France they just exchanged blacks for white slaves.  The framers were all white men who came from privilege.


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## DrLove (Oct 7, 2018)

Penelope said:


> bear513 said:
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> > Penelope said:
> ...



It's bear513 - Not our sharpest tool


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 7, 2018)

DrLove said:


> Penelope said:
> 
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> ...



You are not entitled to representation balanced politically between the parties, but only that granted you by the voters.


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## DrLove (Oct 7, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
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Who said anything about "between the parties"?
Catch up - Everyone EVERYWHERE is entitled to equal representation. 
Any and ALL redistricting needs to be done by neutral third parties.
As for the EC - Fuck it. It was based to a large extent on slavery and women not being able to vote. 
It was also based on the understandable lack of the capacity to know that we would end up with states that have 40-60 times the population of others.


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 7, 2018)

DrLove said:


> bear513 said:
> 
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Of course they have a right comrade, it's in the Constitution, every state gets two senators.


.


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## DrLove (Oct 7, 2018)

bear513 said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...



Of course - And nothing has changed since then. N-O-T-H-I-N-G!


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 7, 2018)

DrLove said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
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> > DrLove said:
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With out the EC their would of been no United States . Period end of story. America would of looked like Europe, a bunch of countries.


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 7, 2018)

DrLove said:


> bear513 said:
> 
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> > DrLove said:
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You just mad you can't indoctrinate school children in North Platte, Nebraska with your liberal views.


.


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## rightwinger (Oct 7, 2018)

Most new citizens will forget most of what is on the test within a few years
Just like American citizens do


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## DrLove (Oct 7, 2018)

bear513 said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
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Nonsense - And if the Founding Fathers were alive today, they would do a total re-write.


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 7, 2018)

rightwinger said:


> Most new citizens will forget most of what is on the test within a few years
> Just like American citizens do




Exactly that's why they post stupid shit..


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 7, 2018)

DrLove said:


> bear513 said:
> 
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> > DrLove said:
> ...




Lol what would they rewrite???


And how would you have got the slave states to join the Union with out the EC ..


Come on tell us..


----------



## DrLove (Oct 7, 2018)

bear513 said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...



Yes, and I would also indoctrinate and recruit them into homosexuality.
Gawd you dumb


----------



## Wyatt earp (Oct 7, 2018)

bear513 said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...




I can see it now back in 1771, you must join our Union to fight tyranny against the britsh .... They would of said what the people said to them over the saint Lawrence river.. go fuck yourself.


.


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## DrLove (Oct 7, 2018)

bear513 said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...



Much of it they would leave intact - half of it they would update once they were up to speed.


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## DrLove (Oct 7, 2018)

bear513 said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...



You just told yourself to go fuck yourself. Good idea!


----------



## Wyatt earp (Oct 7, 2018)

DrLove said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...




What is that suppose to mean, come on tell us how the United States would of got the slave states to join with out the Electoral college???


.


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 7, 2018)

DrLove said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...




So reverting back to posting like an uneducated child?


Come on Einstein, tell us how you could of fought tyranny by the britsh, promote freedom only to try to force the slave states to join?

.


----------



## DrLove (Oct 7, 2018)

bear513 said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...



The Constitution worked just fine -------- WHEN IT WAS WRITTEN


----------



## Wyatt earp (Oct 7, 2018)

DrLove said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...




*. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790): Eradication of diseases, physical immortality, and bodily preservation after death*

ADVERTISEMENT




_





Benjamin Franklin, in addition to being a political theorist, activist, scientist, inventor, and a bajillion other things, was also a damn fine futurist in his own right. Reflecting on the fantastic possibilites that may be introduced through the application of "true science," he wrote to his Unitarian scientist friend Joseph Priestly in 1780:

The rapid progress true science now makes occasions my regretting sometimes that I was born too soon. It is impossible to imagine the height to which may be carried, in a thousand years, the power of man over matter. We may, perhaps, deprive large masses of their gravity, and give them absolute levity, for the sake of easy transport. Agriculture may diminish its labor and double its produce: all diseases may by sure means be prevented or cured (not excepting even that of old age,) and our lives lengthened at pleasure, even beyond the antediluvian standard. Oh that moral science were in as fair a way of improvement, that men would cease to be wolves to one another, and that human beings would at length learn what they now improperly call humanity.

ADVERTISEMENT




Earlier, in 1773, he suggested that it might be possible to preserve a human life in a suspended state for centuries until such time that the person could be revived — a kind of precursor to cryonics and chemopreservation. Instead of cold storage, however, Franklin hoped that he'd be preserved in a vat of madeira wine until science could bring him back to life._


----------



## DrLove (Oct 7, 2018)

bear513 said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...



Got better things to do than engage your ramblings - Toenails and nose hairs to trim. You know, stuff like that


----------



## Wyatt earp (Oct 7, 2018)

DrLove said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...




Yea go back to getting your news from a comedian, eh?



.


----------



## rightwinger (Oct 7, 2018)

bear513 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Most new citizens will forget most of what is on the test within a few years
> ...



I’m smart....real smart
Have a big brain, people who have big brains are smart
I’m one of the smartest people ever to post on USMB 
Believe me


----------



## Wyatt earp (Oct 7, 2018)

rightwinger said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




Guess I am, not that complicated to read the Constitution, travel around the USA and know the difference.


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## rightwinger (Oct 7, 2018)

bear513 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...



Low IQ poster


----------



## KissMy (Oct 7, 2018)

longknife said:


> *What the hell has happened to our education system? One would think that pride in this country would call for teaching our youths all the things that give them futures not available anywhere else in the world.*
> 
> _Just one-in-three Americans passed the multiple choice exam that is undertaken by foreigners. Shockingly, 87 percent of respondents did not know that the US Constitution was ratified in 1787, while 60 percent of respondents couldn't identify which countries fought in World War II against the US and its allies._
> 
> ...


_While many Americans aren’t shy when it comes to expressing their opinion regarding the controversy surrounding US Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh, only 43 percent knew the actual number of justices (nine) that protect the nation’s constitution._

*Duh! - $30,000,000 + way more Dark Money was spent in 2 weeks BLASTING Every TV, Computer & Phone Screen with Kavanaugh propaganda! That's more than 7 times what was spent on Education over the same period of time!!! Over 80% of it was pro-Kavanaugh propaganda Dark Money that came Repubtard donors!!! Rich people hate an educated voter!*


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 7, 2018)

DrLove said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...



It works fine now.  It's just Democrats mucking stuff up.


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## Unkotare (Oct 7, 2018)

DrLove said:


> bear513 said:
> 
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> > DrLove said:
> ...



And it still does to this day.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 7, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Weatherman2020 said:
> ...



Who said they were born in the US?

I have potential recruits for the Army that I have to disqualify for service every single day because they do not speak sufficient English to be allowed to enlist.  Lord knows they could never qualify for enlistment if we actually tested them.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 7, 2018)

Tresha91203 said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



Really?  What subject do you teach?  Music?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 7, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



Great!  Now, try making students repeat that information.  They won't, so what good does it do?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 7, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



The reason our rankings have plummeted is simple.  We are overrun with immigrants and the kids that didn't even attend school because of mental and physical handicaps when I attended school are now sitting in the classroom being tested on an equal basis with "normal" students.  What do you think that does to the averages?


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 7, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > SweetSue92 said:
> ...



Drill them again, and test them again.  Eventually, they'll get tired of the process and learn the stuff.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 7, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



No, on the topic of education, you are apparently a moron in the classic definition.  You have three teachers/former teachers on this thread telling you that you are full of shit.  When will you go take a laxative?


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## jillian (Oct 7, 2018)

longknife said:


> *What the hell has happened to our education system? One would think that pride in this country would call for teaching our youths all the things that give them futures not available anywhere else in the world.*
> 
> _Just one-in-three Americans passed the multiple choice exam that is undertaken by foreigners. Shockingly, 87 percent of respondents did not know that the US Constitution was ratified in 1787, while 60 percent of respondents couldn't identify which countries fought in World War II against the US and its allies._
> 
> ...



Which is why they should teach civics


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 7, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



Guess what, dumbass!  You don't have time for that!  You practically cannot require homework anymore because conservatives and liberal parents rebelled and the school boards have made it a living hell for teachers to meet the goals without the resources to make it happen.  That is why teachers burn out early and leave the profession.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 7, 2018)

Penelope said:


> bear513 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Good for them!  Why don't you propose an amendment doing just that?  You do know that is possible, right?


----------



## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 7, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > SweetSue92 said:
> ...



One is judged by what one produces.  The product currently produced by the public system is of lowest quality.

To drop from 1st to 27th indicates a deep-seated problem in both philosophy and methods.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 7, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



Go take that laxative.  You won't be so full of shit.

I already explained the reasons for the drop.  You just don't like it because it is the truth and negates your position of being a pompous ass.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 7, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



You make my point for me.  It's time for changes to the system right across the board.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 7, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > SweetSue92 said:
> ...



See #177.


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## Unkotare (Oct 7, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...





You implied that.


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## Unkotare (Oct 7, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > SweetSue92 said:
> ...



Yes they will.


----------



## DrLove (Oct 7, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > bear513 said:
> ...



No not really - But carry on my wayward son!


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## Unkotare (Oct 7, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...





I give homework every day.


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## Unkotare (Oct 7, 2018)

DrLove said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...



Yes, really, it works just fine.


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 7, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...






MA is top in the nation. Y’all get your states sorted out.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 7, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



I was speaking globally.


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## Unkotare (Oct 7, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...





If MA were a country, it would rank 2nd in the world in reading literacy, 6th in science, and 21st in math.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 7, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



Shrug.

Which means what?


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 7, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...





Which means I’m wicked awesome.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 7, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



You have to change society first!  You cannot make chicken salad out of chicken shit!


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 7, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



No.  You assumed that.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 7, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



I'll see your #177 and raise you to #189.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 7, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



Good for you!  So did I!

Now, lets talk about the millions of others that don't because they are tired of the mental abuse.


----------



## Wyatt earp (Oct 7, 2018)

KissMy said:


> longknife said:
> 
> 
> > *What the hell has happened to our education system? One would think that pride in this country would call for teaching our youths all the things that give them futures not available anywhere else in the world.*
> ...




I was wondering why the left was so against kavanaugh.


.


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## initforme (Oct 7, 2018)

Well I don't think there is one employer out there that asks any of these citizenship questions nor do any employers care one iota at all about this.  The op is pure nonsense.  Beyond stupid.  They don't teach it every year because most Americans don't ever use it on the job. What is the matter with you people?  It's taught.  But the forgotten because it's UNIMPORTANT knowledge.


----------



## rightwinger (Oct 7, 2018)

initforme said:


> Well I don't think there is one employer out there that asks any of these citizenship questions nor do any employers care one iota at all about this.  The op is pure nonsense.  Beyond stupid.  They don't teach it every year because most Americans don't ever use it on the job. What is the matter with you people?  It's taught.  But the forgotten because it's UNIMPORTANT knowledge.


To many Americans it is like the foreign language we learned in HS. We memorized it for the tests but it was forgotten from lack of use


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 7, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



Yes.  For starters, stop mixing all levels of abilities.  Academics have their own classes.  Those not academically inclined go to vocational classes.  Those who have special needs go to special needs classes.  Those who are unmotivated and cause a disturbance go to the disturbed school.  ESL students go to ESL classes until their English becomes proficient enough to attend the above mentioned regular classes.

Just for starters.  This is how it was done when I was in school.  At that time, America was ranked #1 in the world.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 7, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



Mixing levels of abilities?  Then why are you demanding such high performance out of kids?  That ranking is not going to improve is some kids only take Math of Dummies instead of the Algebra II currently required in most states.  Also, last time I checked, vocational classes involved some fairly complicated math such as geometry and algebra.

Who are you going to get to teach these juvenile delinquents in training?  Teachers don't get paid enough already and now you want them to put up with classes comprised of derelicts?

If you want ESL students taken care of, tell that to Congress who thinks they should be fluent in English in only two years when all research says it takes a good 7 years.  If we do as you propose, the students will not learn any other subjects until they master English?  Great plan!

Why don't you run for your local school board with that plan and see how far you get?  You might get one vote if you vote for yourself.  I doubt your family and friends are that dumb.


----------



## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 7, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



Not my rabbit.  My son was homeschooled, is grown and is becoming ridiculously successful in what he does.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 7, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



Good for him!  It is amazing what kids can do to overcome a stupid parent!


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 7, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...




Among my tribe we call that "false." You mentioned one and only one factor in a particular group of students failing to "speak English well." That factor was "because no one speaks it at home." When you said "the offspring of illegals," you implied people in the country illegally who then had offspring. 

This is your chance to put a steak on your eye and admit you were wrong, or act like a pissy little ahole and try to spin further. I'm hoping you make the right call.


----------



## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 7, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


----------



## SweetSue92 (Oct 8, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



And these are generally the arguments conservatives have. "It worked when I was in school."

Yep.


----------



## Weatherman2020 (Oct 8, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


Home schooled kids run circles around publk edjewkated kidz


----------



## Weatherman2020 (Oct 8, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


Ah, the old teachers don’t get paid enough bullshit. 

That’s why 300 qualified applicants apply for one teachers job.


----------



## Correll (Oct 8, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...




MOre important than exact dates of events, important principles and ideas like that, are, imo, what a student should retain long term.


----------



## initforme (Oct 8, 2018)

It's not needed in the work world and it's not on any of the beloved standardized tests.  The people who know it are those that become citizens here through the process. It's basically useless after that.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 8, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



You would think they would, but why do so many parents use home schooling as a way to skirt mandatory attendance laws so they can raise morons? Home school supporters always seem to forget those students.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 8, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...




Oh, the old bullshit claim with our any proof! I left a school 3 years ago and they still have not found anyone that will stay in the job.


----------



## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 8, 2018)

SweetSue92 said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



What reason that it could not work now?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 8, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



You wouldn't believe us anyway. Your mind is a closed book, just like it apparently was in school. 

Why don't you take some education psychology classes and learn why?

We did!


----------



## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 8, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > SweetSue92 said:
> ...



Perhaps that's why you're as hard-headed as you are.


----------



## PoliticalChic (Oct 8, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...




Excellent....another homeschool family.


----------



## Weatherman2020 (Oct 8, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


I personally know over two dozen home schooled kids. All of them run circles intellectually, morally and socially than the other kids.


----------



## Weatherman2020 (Oct 8, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


Two years ago my high school district had one opening for a teacher. After weeding thru the applications they had over 300 qualified teachers applying. 

Another district has a teacher who calls in sick every Monday. Every Monday. They can’t fire her. 

Teaching is just another non productive government job. Hell, kids can’t even read or write cursive or read a watch with hands. The other day I saw a document from the Revolutionary war were the locals signed an oath to the cause. And each signature was in perfect handwriting, over 300 backwoods Virginians in 1777.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 8, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Weatherman2020 said:
> ...



How many millions do you not know?

As a teacher in Florida, I had numerous students who were taken out of public schools in their freshman or sophomore year, many with learning disabilities who simply struggled in school.  How many of those students do you think actually completed their high school diploma?

How many kids are being homeschooled by parents who either dropped out of high school or attained a GED?

The lack of data on this topic lies right at the feet of homeschools because they have fought any and all accountability for their actions.

If you can homeschool and be successful, more power to you!  I just hate seeing all of the homeschoolers with their arms in slings because they hurt themselves patting themselves on the back!

My own daughter-in-law homeschooled my granddaughter for a short time with my full support.  She has a BA degree, and was one of the best students I ever had! It worked for its purpose and then my granddaughter returned to public school when her classmates grew up and started treating her disability as something not to laugh at.


----------



## Weatherman2020 (Oct 8, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


Ah, the old blame it on stupid kids rant. 

Funny how recently a school district learned that giving kids extra recess time (wearing them out) resulted in significant test score improvements. 

Public education is a disgrace. Time to bust all teacher unions.


----------



## DrLove (Oct 8, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



No document in the world can stand the test of 250 years time. 
Go ahead - make a rule of some sort just for fun and put it in a time capsule.
Instruct your heirs to open for a good laugh around 2270


----------



## Correll (Oct 8, 2018)

DrLove said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...




YOu libs claim to care about civil rights, but constantly attack the very document that protect them. 


You are so dishonest, words cannot describe it.


----------



## Natural Citizen (Oct 8, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Every one of you education bashers have the same M.O.!  It's obviously the fault of the teacher's unions, right?



My discontent with education is government involvement in it.

Do you teach the unconstitutionality of government involvement where it lacks authority to be involved in History and Civics class? Serious question.


----------



## DrLove (Oct 8, 2018)

Correll said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



Civil rights? Those have been trashed by SCOTUS and they'll now be eroded even further. 
And you are so dumb, you'll think it's great ... UNTIL they come for YOU.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 8, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Weatherman2020 said:
> ...



I cannot believe you used that incredibly stupid anecdote.  You should be ashamed.  A high school where I substituted had two long term substitutes because they could not find a qualified math teacher for over a year! No one wants to work in a high stress environment for chicken feed.

Why would you fire someone for calling in sick?  The district probably does not compensate teachers for unused sick days at retirement and they are just burning them up.  I once used a lot of sick time just like that because I had a medical appointment once per week for several weeks in a row.  The norm is about 10 sick days allowed per year. Can you say with any certainty that you have all the facts or are you just parroting the education basher talking points?

Cursive is useless.  Other than writing my signature, I have not written anything cursive in about 40 years.  Cursive is hard to write, and hard to read, especially when you can't penalize students for poor penmanship.

Reading an analog clock is still taught, but not retained.  Why?  Most have a digital watch or cell phone.  Why is this so hard for an adult like yourself to understand?  If you don't use it, you lose it!  I happen to know that it is taught because I have three grandkids ages 8 to 12.  Just FYI, there is not a single analog clock in my home other than some old wristwatches I have stuck in a drawer.

As to your Revolutionary War document, no 300 "backwoodsmen" would have the ability to even read and write in the 1700s, so stop displaying your ignorance. There were very few schools back then and the literacy rate for southern states in the Revolutionary period might have topped 60%.  One of the struggles this country overcame during WWI and WWII was a vastly uneducated populace.


----------



## rightwinger (Oct 8, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Weatherman2020 said:
> ...



Mostly stupid parents who do not give a crap about education


----------



## Correll (Oct 8, 2018)

DrLove said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...




Are you aware the bill of rights is part of the Constitution? That you were just attacking?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 8, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Weatherman2020 said:
> ...



How did I blame it on the kids?  I was talking about parents!  Maybe you need remedial reading.

Will you please explain WTF teacher's unions have got to do with this topic?  Are you just so dead set on showing how ignorant you are?  Unions do not get involved in the teaching side of education despite all of the education basher fantasies.  No one in my participation in any message board has been able to answer that question honestly.  On second thought, don't try!  You will fail miserably because it simply is not true.


----------



## rightwinger (Oct 8, 2018)

Natural Citizen said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Every one of you education bashers have the same M.O.!  It's obviously the fault of the teacher's unions, right?
> ...


Education is a function of government

A free public school education is a great equalizer in our society


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 8, 2018)

DrLove said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...





The Bible


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 8, 2018)

rightwinger said:


> Natural Citizen said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...





It’s supposed to be, but there are limits to that.


----------



## DrLove (Oct 8, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



Yes - The Old Testament is definitely fodder for a good laugh.


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 8, 2018)

Natural Citizen said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Every one of you education bashers have the same M.O.!  It's obviously the fault of the teacher's unions, right?
> ...




Yes


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 8, 2018)

DrLove said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...




Billions disagree with you.


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 8, 2018)

rightwinger said:


> Natural Citizen said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...




Education is a function of humanity, and the purview of family first and foremost.


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## Natural Citizen (Oct 8, 2018)

rightwinger said:


> Education is a function of government



Government lacks constitutional authority to be involved in education.

And the Department of Education, like everything else the government inserts itself in, is a complete failure. Abolish it.


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## DrLove (Oct 8, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



Billions? 
Record Few Americans Believe Bible Is Literal Word of God


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## Unkotare (Oct 8, 2018)

DrLove said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...






Yes, billions.


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## Natural Citizen (Oct 8, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Education is a function of humanity, and the purview of family first and foremost.



That's well said. Agreed.

Personally, I'd rather encourage homeschooling and private schooling. Let the parents write it off. As well, teachers could be given a tax write off as a means of raising their salaries. There's some good, creative teachers at the local level.

Parents have to get cotrol of education again, that's true. It's important. It used to be that parents had control of it via local school boards. Now it's the Executive branch and the judicial system who has control of it. It's become a bureaucracy that wants to control everything and it should be predictable that the quality of education goes down as a consequence of that bureaucracy control. All of the money goes to the bureaucrats instead of the actual education system.


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## Natural Citizen (Oct 8, 2018)

Shameless plug: RonPaulCurriculum.com

If we're gonna homeschool em, may as well do so from a liberty perspective. Teach em how to build and run a business. The program has been very successful.


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## rightwinger (Oct 8, 2018)

Natural Citizen said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Education is a function of government
> ...



Of course they do
Free Public School Education has been available since before our nation was formed. It was when public schools became available to everyone, we became a great nation

The Federal Government provides only ten percent of the funding for our schools, the rest comes from state and local governments

Other than to insist on certain standards, the Federal Government has little influence on your local school


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## Weatherman2020 (Oct 8, 2018)

DrLove said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...





DrLove said:


> No document in the world can stand the test of 250 years time.



Worlds best selling document has for over 3,000 years.


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## Weatherman2020 (Oct 8, 2018)

DrLove said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...


Tell the class what Civil Rights you think you’ve lost, Snowflake.


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## Weatherman2020 (Oct 8, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


That’s the story the brass told you that couldn’t find a replacement. 

Most likely they were saving money by not hiring a replacement and spending it on fluff


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## toobfreak (Oct 8, 2018)

longknife said:


> *81% of Americans under 45 would fail basic ‘US citizenship test’*


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## DrLove (Oct 8, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



Are you too a 24%-er? Figures 
Record Few Americans Believe Bible Is Literal Word of God


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 8, 2018)

rightwinger said:


> Natural Citizen said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



Indeed that was the idea, but as it stands now it is merely leaving everyone equally ignorant.


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## Natural Citizen (Oct 8, 2018)

rightwinger said:


> Of course they do
> Free Public School Education has been available since before our nation was formed. It was when public schools became available to everyone, we became a great nation
> 
> The Federal Government provides only ten percent of the funding for our schools, the rest comes from state and local governments
> ...



My main gripe with it is the constitutionality of it. It's my moral and political nature.

So long as home schooling remains a practical alternative for families, I'm rather docile about it.

Home schoolers did get a tax break last week in that recent tax bill the GOP just put out. Of course, they're still paying school taxes, even though they aren't using public education. They got a little break anyway.


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## rightwinger (Oct 8, 2018)

Natural Citizen said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Of course they do
> ...


Home schooling is not a practical alternative to most families


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 8, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



That's interesting!  Are you too ignorant to realize that this is 2018, so parts of the Bible were written less than that many years ago?  Please tell me you did not homeschool your kids!


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 8, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> DrLove said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...




God is this guy fucking stupid ., Lol...



.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 8, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Weatherman2020 said:
> ...



Since, I was one of those subs, I can assure you this was not true.  The district could not hire me because of a Catch 22 where my contract at a small district was not renewed because they found a cheaper replacement.  I would have been hired in a heartbeat at the beginning of this year by several schools, but I chose to retire and go to work for a defense contractor.


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 8, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> > DrLove said:
> ...




Which Bible we talking about?


.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 8, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Natural Citizen said:
> ...



Why is it that many of my students receive an education that was far superior to any that anyone in my generation received?  My kids are all very successful.  If the system is as bad as you claim, how is that possible?

It is because you are simply full of shit!


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 8, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



What generation are you?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 8, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
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> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



Older than dirt it feels like.


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## Unkotare (Oct 8, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



https://nypost.com/2018/02/14/why-americas-teacher-shortage-is-going-to-get-worse/


America's new education crisis: A teacher shortage



Many US States Struggle with Teacher Shortages


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## Unkotare (Oct 8, 2018)

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...




All of it is important.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 8, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



Considering the responsibilities, teachers should be paid as professionals, not fry flippers.  They should at least have Masters degrees in their chosen subjects.

Their work should also be judged at a professional level, by the product they produce.  If they don't produce, out on their ass they go immediately following review.


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## Unkotare (Oct 8, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> ...... They should at least have Masters degrees in their chosen subjects.......




Most of the ones around here do.


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## Unkotare (Oct 8, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> ....
> 
> Their work should also be judged at a professional level, by the product they produce.  If they don't produce, out on their ass they go immediately following review.




Define "produce."


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 8, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > ....
> ...



Students either ready to enter college without remedial work, or prepared to enter the work force.


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## initforme (Oct 8, 2018)

Describe what good this boring information is to a young person studying for a profession.   And we wonder why nobody knows it.  No busy working americans really care.  They are out making a dollar and don't have time to care.


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## Unkotare (Oct 8, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...




Too many uncontrolled variables.


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## rightwinger (Oct 8, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Weatherman2020 said:
> ...


The product they produce should be based on the product they are given.....not some arbitrary “one size fits all” standard

If you take an F student and turn him into a C student, you have done a great job

A better job than a teacher who gets Yuppie spawn and gets them an A


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 8, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Weatherman2020 said:
> ...



Why should I have a Master's degree in mathematics to teach math, when I never had an undergraduate degree in mathematics?

Who decides what is a professional level?  More than likely they would choose someone like you who doesn't know Jack Schitt about the topic!


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 8, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



My state has a way to measure that called "College and Career Ready!"  It is a struggle to get 60% because the students don't really give a shit about it as long as they graduate.  If they take the ACT and make a sufficient score to get into college, they are college ready. If they take vocational classes and pass certifications, then they are career ready.  It also takes up an exceptional amount to testing time, which I thought you education bashers opposed because each test is tailored to a specific career field.  

Then, you have those who take all of the college prep classes and blow the ACT, and they don't have the classes needed to gain certifications for being career ready.  That's what you have!  They are neither college nor career ready and no way to gain either one.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 8, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



When I was in school, 60% was failure.

So, they control you.  You do not control them.  Why don't you try not passing them if they don't perform to minimum standards?


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 8, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



Would you let the ground crew teach you to fly an aircraft?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 8, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



In this case, the are no minimum standards.  Do you propose failing them for doing poorly on the ACT?

I and most teachers would have liked to keep their jobs when I was working. Administrators do not like pressure from their superintendents when students are actually held accountable by the teachers and earn failing grades.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 8, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



Nope.  Your example makes no sense.  Would I let a ground crew member who was also a pilot teach me how to fly an aircraft?  Absolutely!

Having a Master's degree just means that you are exceptionally overqualified to teach high school math because they are about as close as the Earth and the Moon.

What you are proposing is to have an astronaut teach me how to fly a Cessna.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 9, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



Indeed, which is why widespread changes must be made.  There must be minimum standards. and they must be set rather high.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 9, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



That , of course, was not the question, and your avoidance of it is interesting.



Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Having a Master's degree just means that you are exceptionally overqualified to teach high school math because they are about as close as the Earth and the Moon.



Too funny.  A BA these days is equivalent to a high school level education when I was there.  Unless that's what you want teaching your kids, you go to the next step up the ladder.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 9, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



Knowing more about a subject than you are teaching makes little sense.  I can do differential calculus, but that doesn't make me a better teacher in algebra and geometry, now does it?  I could could spend months teaching about the Civil War because I studied it intensively in school, but my standards might allow me about 3 days time.  Doing that, all of my education is superfluous!

The ignorance you display regarding education in general is amazing!


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 9, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



Good Gawd Almighty!  Unbelievable.  That's an appallingly stupid statement.

"I'm sorry Dave, but this conversation no longer has any meaning.  Goodbye."


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 9, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



Then you must accept failure.  You can't have it both ways.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 9, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



I am sorry that your tiny little brain cannot accept the concept that I don't need a doctoral degree in nuclear physics to teach Earth-Space Science in middle school. 

Why are you such a dumbass on this topic?  Did a teacher run away with your wife or girlfriend?


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## Weatherman2020 (Oct 9, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


Your education is lacking because you can’t see the trees thru the forest. Public education is a major failure and the reason young adults are so clueless. 

For example Los Angeles school district jumped from a 50% high school graduation rate to a 70% in one year. How’d they do that?  They simply stopped giving the competency test to graduate. And still 30% could not graduate. 

The running joke now is we can write in cursive as a secret code so millennials won’t read it. 

Look at the Lefts Socialist Girl who’s running for office. She has the knowledge of an 8 year old in economics yet finished 2nd in her Harvard (Yale?) class majoring in economics.  

At the same time I’ve talked to 8 year olds who were homeschooled and had adult discussions on topics like the meaning of life, social issues in the world, history, etc etc. 

Education in America sucks.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 9, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



My wife is a teacher.  She spent a decade in the system.  She finds your attitude as appalling as I do.


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## Unkotare (Oct 9, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...






Then why do students from all over the world flock to our shores for education?


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## Weatherman2020 (Oct 9, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


Immigrants come here for economic reasons, not our education system. 

I personally know dozens of children in third world nations that run circles around American kids in our public education.


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## Unkotare (Oct 9, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Weatherman2020 said:
> ...




Many thousands come here every year for education.


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## Weatherman2020 (Oct 9, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


If it’s free taxpayer education by a university riding on a name built by people long dead, yes.


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## Unkotare (Oct 9, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Weatherman2020 said:
> ...




All levels and types of education.  Public, private, college, high school, middle school, elementary school, all sorts all kinds all over the United States people come here in droves seeking their educational goals.


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## KissMy (Oct 9, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Weatherman2020 said:
> ...


Bull-crap! The main reasons for migration is NOT economic reasons!


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## initforme (Oct 9, 2018)

Time for weather to step up and teach.  Show how to change the system overnight.   Not once did you put one iota of responsibility on the kids.  You have failed in your stance. Epically.  It's only the teacher.  Not the kids.  Not the parents.  You have been discredited.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 9, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



Oh, your wife is a teacher?  What does she teach?  Home Ec?  Music?  P.E.?  I'll bet it is not a core academic subject!  Otherwise, she would not be saying what you claim she says.

Mod edit xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (inappropriate)

I spent two plus decades in the system, so that means I have twice the experience as she does?  I also spent time as a school administrator.  How about her experience outside the classroom?

Why can't you address what I said?  Are you incapable of countering my points so you go personal?  The real reason is that you are arguing my facts against your fantasies.

Try again:

I don't need a doctoral degree in nuclear physics to teach Earth-Space Science in middle school.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 10, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



You don't know much about Los Angeles do you?

Did you know that L.A.'s schools are 73% Hispanic?  How many of those do you think are illegals?

If I were to give you the ACT, written completely in Serbo-Croation, do you think you could get into any college?  Of course not!  You probably wouldn't get your own name correct, because the instructions would not make any sense to you!

The kids in LA perform poorly because they do not understand the f-ing language!  Why is that such a foreign concept to you people?  I never thought I would ever have to call anyone a conservatard, but the shoe fits, and you all need to lace that bad boy up and wear it!  I had many Hispanic students in Florida that could do the math required, but as soon as you have them a paragraph to read, they were lost.  They would struggle through school and could not pass the proficiency exam even though they were given multiple opportunities.  They were not stupid, but they could not read English at the same level as they could Spanish.

As for your homeschooled kids, how many times do I have to say it before you press the f-ing "I believe" button.  Homeschooling is great, most of the time, My major bone of contention is where conservatards claim it is the ONLY solution, and use it to bash public education.

Why?  I have held conversations with homeschooled kids whose parents finally realized the limits of their abilities to homeschool way to late and have raised kids who were mentally handicapped through no fault of their own.  They show up at public schools without the ability to read and write, do math, or know any other subjects within 5 grades of where their ability should be.  Now, tell me I am lying and get it out of the way!


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 10, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



She doesn't teach anything nowadays.  We've both been rather hedonistic retirees for some time.  

As to your points, I have addressed them.  There is no more to discuss.  This little bon-mot of yours put the period on it.

*"Knowing more about a subject than you are teaching makes little sense."*


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 10, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...




You changed my quote to fit your agenda.  

What about this:

"I don't need a doctoral degree in nuclear physics to teach Earth-Space Science in middle school."

Where is your reply?

Also, why didn't you answer when I asked what your wife taught?

I know exactly why!  I hit the nail on the head, didn't I?  She doesn't teach a core academic subject.

You are a pompous asshole who can't debate.  Typical education basher.   You try to justify your own self worth by denigrating others who are your betters.

You are right!  The discussion needs to end before you embarrass yourself any more.


----------



## bodecea (Oct 10, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> The 13 colonies, and the Constitution, and all that are still taught in school. People just forget.


I agree...you teach it at an early enough age that they don't see the relevance in remembering.


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## Unkotare (Oct 10, 2018)

bodecea said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > The 13 colonies, and the Constitution, and all that are still taught in school. People just forget.
> ...




Wrong again


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## Unkotare (Oct 10, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...






Be more patient and less defensive.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 10, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



Liar.  See #270.  Those were your exact words.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 11, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



The posts are mirror images of each other.  Excuse me for trying to dumb it down to your level.

Now, will you answer the questions I asked you?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 11, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



Mind you own beeswax.  This feud has gone on far longer than this thread has been here.


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## Unkotare (Oct 11, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...





Then take it to the FZ and stop trolling the education forum.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 11, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



You are not a Mod, so mind your own beeswax!  Wasn't that clear enough for you?  

Where is your comment to tell the conservatard to beat feet?


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## Unkotare (Oct 11, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...





 You keep claiming to be an educator, but here you are admittedly trolling the education forum.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 11, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



I am not trolling you jackass!  Now, go play with your blocks and leave me alone.


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## Unkotare (Oct 11, 2018)

Folks, this guy ^^^^^ does not represent educators generally.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 11, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Folks, this guy ^^^^^ does not represent educators generally.



Folks, this guy ^^^^^^^ (I think) does not represent a typical human being. He likes being an asshole whenever he decides that he disagrees with you without any reasoning whatsoever.  He apparently is a libtard in disguise.


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## initforme (Oct 11, 2018)

I know my grandkids could probably not recall the useless information on citizenship test, thankfully.  It won't help them secure a decent profession that is for sure.  Waste of time.


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## Unkotare (Oct 11, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Folks, this guy ^^^^^ does not represent educators generally.
> ...





Yeah, you go ahead and appeal to popularity with all the friends you’ve been making with your “shut the fuck up! You non-teachers don’t deserve to talk!” Attitude. Good luck with that.


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## Unkotare (Oct 11, 2018)

initforme said:


> I know my grandkids could probably not recall the useless information on citizenship test, thankfully.  It won't help them secure a decent profession that is for sure.  Waste of time.




Not a waste of time.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 11, 2018)

initforme said:


> I know my grandkids could probably not recall the useless information on citizenship test, thankfully.  It won't help them secure a decent profession that is for sure.  Waste of time.



You cannot possibly know where you are unless you know where you came from.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 12, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



Are you male or female?  You surely act like a wimp around these people who would shit on you if the opportunity ever occurred?


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## Unkotare (Oct 12, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...






Now you’ve been reduced to this? Sad.


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## EGR one (Oct 12, 2018)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> ...



Who is qualified to determine who is stupid and who is smart?


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## EGR one (Oct 12, 2018)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



You just proved that you are dumber than a box of rocks.  Your eugenics would have taken you right out of the gene pool.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Oct 12, 2018)

EGR one said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Anyone who thinks Democrats, and Republicans haven't killed millions is dumb.

I think Western Europeans are actually one of the most dumb peoples I've met.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Oct 12, 2018)

EGR one said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



IQ tests, PISA scores, and so forth.
Duh.


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## Unkotare (Oct 12, 2018)

EGR one said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...





But who would take over his high tech job of (literally) shoveling shit?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 12, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



You can only dream of aspiring to my level.  Very sad.


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## Unkotare (Oct 12, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...





This ^^^^^^ kind of juvenile bullshit is one reason why people need to understand that you do not represent teachers or the profession.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 12, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



Jealousy is such an ugly thing when you let it control you.


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## Unkotare (Oct 12, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...





Be careful of that.


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## RandomPoster (Oct 13, 2018)

Fine.  Give our citizens a few weeks to bone up their knowledge on that specific trivia test or deport them if they fail.  Wait.  No one else would want the ones that couldn't do it.


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