# Oregon Patriots Decline Escort Out of Town



## Mrs. M.

When Ammon Bundy called for the will of the Harney County people to be heard, they turned up in record numbers. Packed to the doors it was standing room only at the County Fairgrounds meeting which was facilitated by Harney County Sheriff David Ward. Some say the entire town showed up. Others say it was the largest gathering they had ever witnessed in their life (including the county fair).

At the meeting, one longtime Harney County resident took the floor. Addressing the topic of the straw poll, his response was two-fold. He said, Sheriff Ward's poll asks do we want it to end peacefully and the protesters to go home? Yes, we want it to end peacefully. No, I don't necessarily want them to go home. They have the right to free speech and I want to find out what they have to say.

Another Harney County resident took the floor and stated that the Hammond Ranchers are the nicest people who ever walked the face of the earth and that they got the rottenest deal there ever was!

Rep. Greg Walden echoed those sentiments on the House floor the other day. He stated that the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) goes onto private land “all the time” to set back burn fires in order to protect their own lands. Yet BLM has never been sentenced under the 1996 Terrorism Law. He also stated that according to a law he authored, BLM has not kept their agreement to build fences but has ordered the ranchers to build them instead.

Rep. Walden stated that the Hammond ranchers had been forced to sign a right of first refusal. Under this restriction they cannot purchase or sell anything over $500 without obtaining permission from the federal government. Rep. Walden has called it a “Constitutional Crisis.”

To illustrate what Rep. Walden is speaking about – consider this fire started by BLM employees:

The Cerro Grand fire went out of control after government employees failed to properly plan and prepare for windy conditions May of 2000. The prescribed burn whipped out of control, devouring over 47,000 acres of private land including over 400 homes, creating over 1 billion dollars worth of damages.

How many BLM employees were charged?
None.

A report from the National Park Service Federal Board of Inquiry recommended that no disciplinary action be taken against the government employees. Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt claimed it wasn't a case of criminal negligence and therefore there would be no criminal charges filed.

Time for a review:

Case A:  Hammond ranchers start a back burn fire which burns 1 acre of BLM land causing $100 worth of damages and get 5 years in prison under the 1996 Terrorism law and are fined $400,000.00.

Case B:  Federal government employees who failed in oversight and proper planning for a prescribed burn under high wind conditions burn over 47,000 acres of private land that doesn't belong to BLM and destroy 400 homes creating over $1,000,000,000.000 worth of damages and receive no monetary fines and no criminal charges are filed.

It is not difficult to understand why the ranchers have complained about the federal government's double standards.

Harney county residents have been voicing their frustrations about an overreaching federal government that have been seizing their lands for a long time.. They are grateful for the attention that has finally come their way as a result of the Patriot Protesters occupying Malhuer Wildlife Refuge.

Harney County resident Mitch Stegner said he had been out to the protest site and that the men and women were polite. He stated that the Bundy Ranchers have given Harney County the best gift it has ever received. He said, Whether you agree with them or not, they have given us our biggest and best platform to get our message to the federal government that they have to pay attention to us.

I would add that they have also given the American people an opportunity to learn the truth about BLM's land grabbing schemes and the double standard the federal government has been using - disproportionate fines and criminal charges for ranchers vs BLM (who appears to be above the law).

Today Sheriff Harney offered Ammon Bundy and his fellow Patriots an escort out of town but they declined. Mr. Bundy said they will accept that escort but not just yet.

The standoff continues.


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## Vigilante




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## koshergrl

The community supports him. There are a lot of offal I'm sure that will seed meetings and show up to pretend to be community members, but the reality is that the people who live and work and have businesses there are thankful to the Bundys and appreciative that he brought attention to their situation.

The locals are visiting them at the refuge, bringing food, praying with them, and in general being quite blatant in their support. The Oregonian, which initially was running jeering joke posts and memes on their facebook, is getting scooped by other news media outlets, presumably because the locals are freezing them out. The Oregonian has never been their friend, and they know it, and they also have facebook, and read the papers,  and saw the garbage that the Oregonian was running.  

http://www.ktvz.com/news/harney-county-supporters-pay-visit-to-occupied-refuge/37308444


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## Luddly Neddite

That ^^ photo is not of the nutters and vig knows it. 

They're not leaving because they're* too drunk to travel.*


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## IsaacNewton

If they have an argument then make it in the appropriate places. Setting fires at your whim that are against the law isn't going to fly. People in Furgeson or any other city that commit vandalism are caught when possible and prosecuted.

I'm not overly concerned about this group occupying a building for a few days to make a point. Read Civil Disobedience by Thoreau, I support this. At gun point? Yes that is a problem.
They've gotten a lot of attention to whatever it is they are angry about and now its time to follow the law and fight it out in court and the public square.

Occupy Wallstreet, Black Lives Matter, Greenpeace, et al. Civil disobedience is healthy if done in a healthy way.

Sticking a gun in someone's face or threatening the same isn't going to cut it.


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## Vigilante

Luddly Neddite said:


> That ^^ photo is not of the nutters and vig knows it.
> 
> They're not leaving because they're* too drunk to travel.*


You mean, as the Meme STATES, that that building isn't an "EMPTY GOV'T BUILDING"???

Moron, you MUST LEARN to read!


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## Dot Com

Luddly Neddite said:


> That ^^ photo is not of the nutters and vig knows it.
> 
> They're not leaving because they're* too drunk to travel.*


rw meme boi spamming the op-ed section now too?


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## Vigilante

Dot Com said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> That ^^ photo is not of the nutters and vig knows it.
> 
> They're not leaving because they're* too drunk to travel.*
> 
> 
> 
> rw meme boi spamming the op-ed section now too?
Click to expand...


Wait.... I' have more...much more! Just for you scum liberals!


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## JakeStarkey

The LDS church has told the Bundys they are wrong.

Good people have told the Bundys they are wrong.

So far no one has been shot.

If they shoot anyone, the drones will be used against them.  Send the women and children out if it is martyrdom the men want.


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## Vigilante

JakeStarkey said:


> The LDS church has told the Bundys they are wrong.
> 
> Good people have told the Bundys they are wrong.
> 
> So far no one has been shot.
> 
> If they shoot anyone, the drones will be used against them.  Send the women and children out if it is martyrdom the men want.



Back in the late 1700's the JakeAss would have been known as Benedict Arnold!


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## Vigilante




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## JakeStarkey

Vigilante said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The LDS church has told the Bundys they are wrong.
> 
> Good people have told the Bundys they are wrong.
> 
> So far no one has been shot.
> 
> If they shoot anyone, the drones will be used against them.  Send the women and children out if it is martyrdom the men want.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Back in the late 1700's the JakeAss would have been known as Benedict Arnold!
Click to expand...

Only by the loyalists,  Arnold was a hero until he was corrupted by men like you.


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## koshergrl

IsaacNewton said:


> If they have an argument then make it in the appropriate places. Setting fires at your whim that are against the law isn't going to fly. People in Furgeson or any other city that commit vandalism are caught when possible and prosecuted.
> 
> I'm not overly concerned about this group occupying a building for a few days to make a point. Read Civil Disobedience by Thoreau, I support this. At gun point? Yes that is a problem.
> They've gotten a lot of attention to whatever it is they are angry about and now its time to follow the law and fight it out in court and the public square.
> 
> Occupy Wallstreet, Black Lives Matter, Greenpeace, et al. Civil disobedience is healthy if done in a healthy way.
> 
> Sticking a gun in someone's face or threatening the same isn't going to cut it.


 
Oregon standoff: Idaho group arrives to 'secure perimeter, prevent Waco-style situation'


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## koshergrl

They'll have a lot more support come in over the weekend.


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## JakeStarkey

The roads are being blocked by feds as we write here on the Board.


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## Vigilante

JakeStarkey said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The LDS church has told the Bundys they are wrong.
> 
> Good people have told the Bundys they are wrong.
> 
> So far no one has been shot.
> 
> If they shoot anyone, the drones will be used against them.  Send the women and children out if it is martyrdom the men want.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Back in the late 1700's the JakeAss would have been known as Benedict Arnold!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only by the loyalists,  Arnold was a hero until he was corrupted by men like you.
Click to expand...


He was a fucking traitor, as YOU are!


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## JakeStarkey

Vigilante said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The LDS church has told the Bundys they are wrong.
> 
> Good people have told the Bundys they are wrong.
> 
> So far no one has been shot.
> 
> If they shoot anyone, the drones will be used against them.  Send the women and children out if it is martyrdom the men want.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Back in the late 1700's the JakeAss would have been known as Benedict Arnold!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only by the loyalists,  Arnold was a hero until he was corrupted by men like you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He was a fucking traitor, as YOU are!
Click to expand...

Because you, a mouse among men, say so?    Arnold was our greatest combat commander before he was lured into sedition by men like you.


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## koshergrl

JakeStarkey said:


> The LDS church has told the Bundys they are wrong.
> 
> Good people have told the Bundys they are wrong.
> 
> So far no one has been shot.
> 
> If they shoot anyone, the drones will be used against them.  Send the women and children out if it is martyrdom the men want.


 
And let's hope the feds don't shoot anybody. It appears the locals approve of the Bundy presence:

"On Wednesday, around two dozen local supporters drove up to the occupied refuge on Wednesday to shake hands with Ammon Bundy and show their support.
"I believe what they're doing is right," said Burns resident Lindsay Tyler.
"I want to thank them for standing up for everybody's rights," Dale Houck said.
"It's seems a little bit extreme at first," Houck admitted. "But how else are you going to get it out there?"
Others agree -- the attention to the area's issues with federal oversight was needed.

"If they wouldn't have done with the refuge what they did, our voices in Harney County wouldn't have been heard," Tyler said.
*They support Bundy because he drew attention to the problems they've been facing in the community.*
"I'm sick and tired of the BLM and the federal government," Houck said."

Harney sheriff on refuge stalemate: No more meetings, 'all options open'


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## C_Clayton_Jones

Mrs. M. said:


> When Ammon Bundy called for the will of the Harney County people to be heard, they turned up in record numbers. Packed to the doors it was standing room only at the County Fairgrounds meeting which was facilitated by Harney County Sheriff David Ward. Some say the entire town showed up. Others say it was the largest gathering they had ever witnessed in their life (including the county fair).
> 
> At the meeting, one longtime Harney County resident took the floor. Addressing the topic of the straw poll, his response was two-fold. He said, Sheriff Ward's poll asks do we want it to end peacefully and the protesters to go home? Yes, we want it to end peacefully. No, I don't necessarily want them to go home. They have the right to free speech and I want to find out what they have to say.
> 
> Another Harney County resident took the floor and stated that the Hammond Ranchers are the nicest people who ever walked the face of the earth and that they got the rottenest deal there ever was!
> 
> Rep. Greg Walden echoed those sentiments on the House floor the other day. He stated that the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) goes onto private land “all the time” to set back burn fires in order to protect their own lands. Yet BLM has never been sentenced under the 1996 Terrorism Law. He also stated that according to a law he authored, BLM has not kept their agreement to build fences but has ordered the ranchers to build them instead.
> 
> Rep. Walden stated that the Hammond ranchers had been forced to sign a right of first refusal. Under this restriction they cannot purchase or sell anything over $500 without obtaining permission from the federal government. Rep. Walden has called it a “Constitutional Crisis.”
> 
> To illustrate what Rep. Walden is speaking about – consider this fire started by BLM employees:
> 
> The Cerro Grand fire went out of control after government employees failed to properly plan and prepare for windy conditions May of 2000. The prescribed burn whipped out of control, devouring over 47,000 acres of private land including over 400 homes, creating over 1 billion dollars worth of damages.
> 
> How many BLM employees were charged?
> None.
> 
> A report from the National Park Service Federal Board of Inquiry recommended that no disciplinary action be taken against the government employees. Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt claimed it wasn't a case of criminal negligence and therefore there would be no criminal charges filed.
> 
> Time for a review:
> 
> Case A:  Hammond ranchers start a back burn fire which burns 1 acre of BLM land causing $100 worth of damages and get 5 years in prison under the 1996 Terrorism law and are fined $400,000.00.
> 
> Case B:  Federal government employees who failed in oversight and proper planning for a prescribed burn under high wind conditions burn over 47,000 acres of private land that doesn't belong to BLM and destroy 400 homes creating over $1,000,000,000.000 worth of damages and receive no monetary fines and no criminal charges are filed.
> 
> It is not difficult to understand why the ranchers have complained about the federal government's double standards.
> 
> Harney county residents have been voicing their frustrations about an overreaching federal government that have been seizing their lands for a long time.. They are grateful for the attention that has finally come their way as a result of the Patriot Protesters occupying Malhuer Wildlife Refuge.
> 
> Harney County resident Mitch Stegner said he had been out to the protest site and that the men and women were polite. He stated that the Bundy Ranchers have given Harney County the best gift it has ever received. He said, Whether you agree with them or not, they have given us our biggest and best platform to get our message to the federal government that they have to pay attention to us.
> 
> I would add that they have also given the American people an opportunity to learn the truth about BLM's land grabbing schemes and the double standard the federal government has been using - disproportionate fines and criminal charges for ranchers vs BLM (who appears to be above the law.
> 
> Today Sheriff Harney offered Ammon Bundy and his fellow Patriots an escort out of town but they declined. Mr. Bundy said they will accept that escort but not just yet.
> 
> The standoff continues.


Rubbish.

As already correctly noted: the Constitution affords citizens the means by which to address acts of government they oppose – through the political process or the legal process, not engaging in a ridiculous, childish display such as these 'militia' nitwits.

Their 'cause' is completely devoid of merit.


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## JakeStarkey

The locals are tired of BLM and the feds running national lands as they, not the ranchers, want to run the lands.

The proper place to go is to their representatives, not the torch.

The government will not back off this time.


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## koshergrl

JakeStarkey said:


> The roads are being blocked by feds as we write here on the Board.


Sure they are, skippy, lol.


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## koshergrl

JakeStarkey said:


> The locals are tired of BLM and the feds running national lands as they, not the ranchers, want to run the lands.
> 
> The proper place to go is to their representatives, not the torch.
> 
> The government will not back off this time.


 They went to their representatives and crafted out legislation with the BLM..which the BLM ignores.


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## koshergrl

"To Bruce Babbitt's credit, he agreed when I told him: I think you would be surprised about what the local ranchers and citizens of Harney County would be willing to do if you give them a chance. To his credit, he said: All right, I will give them that chance. And he did.
"We went to work on legislation. It took a full year. I worked with the Hammonds. I worked with Stacy Davies, I worked with all kinds of folks, put a staffer on it full-time, multiple staffs, and we worked with the environmental community and others. And we created the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Act, model legislation, never been done before, because I said: We don't have to live by past laws, we write laws.
"So we wrote a new law to create a cooperative spirit of management in Harney County. The Hammonds were part of that discussion. We saved a running camp, Harlan Priority Runs. We protected inholder. We tried to do all the right things and create the kind of partnership and cooperation that the Federal Government and the citizens should have."

"Not long after that became law, and it was heralded as this monumental law of great significance and new era in cooperation and spirit of cooperation, some of those involved on the other side and some of the agencies decided to reinterpret it. The first thing they tried to do is shut down this kids' running camp because they said: Well, too many, maybe more than 20, run down this canyon and back up, as they had for many, many years. They wanted to shut it down. So we had to fight them back and said: No, the law says historical standards.
"Then the bureaucrats, because we said: You should have your historical access to your private property, if you are up on Steens Mountain, you should maintain that access like you have always had it. Do you know what the bureaucrats said? They began to solicit from the inholders in this area: How many times did you go up there last year? You see, they wanted to put a noose around the neck of those who were inside. That was a total violation of what we intended, and we had to back them off.
"See, the bureaucracy wants to interpret the laws we write in ways they want, and in this case they were wrong, not once, but twice.
"Then, a couple of years ago, I learned that, despite the fact we created the first cow-free wilderness in the United States under this law, and said clearly in this law that it would be the responsibility of the government to put up fencing to keep the cows out, as part of the agreement, the Bureau of Land Management said: No, we are not going to follow that law. And they told the ranchers they had to build the fence.

"I networked with my Democrat colleague from Oregon, Mr. _DeFazio_, who was part of writing this law. I said: Peter, you remember that, right? He said: Yeah, I didn't like it, but that was the case. BLM still wouldn't listen. So we continued to push it and they argued back.
Well, it turns out there had been a second rancher who brought this to my attention who they were telling had to do the same thing, build a fence, when the government was supposed to under the law I wrote. The arrogance of the agency was such that they said: We don't agree with you.
Now, there aren't many times, Mr. Speaker, in this job when you can say I know what the intent of the law was, but in this case I could because I wrote the law, I knew the intent.
Oh, that wasn't good enough. No, no, no. No, no, no. The arrogance of these agency people was such that we had to go to the archives and drag out the boxes from 2000, 1999-2000, when we wrote this law, from the hearings that had all the records for the hearings and the floor discussions to talk about the intent. And our retired Member, George Miller, actually we used some of his information where he said the government would provide the fencing. They were still reluctant to follow it. So I put language in the appropriations bill that restated the Federal law.
Do you understand how frustrated I am at this? Can you imagine how the people on the ground feel? Can you imagine? If you are not there, you can't. If you are not there, you can't."

Oregon militants: Walden takes BLM to woodshed - transcript


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## Luddly Neddite

JakeStarkey said:


> The LDS church has told the Bundys they are wrong.
> 
> Good people have told the Bundys they are wrong.
> 
> So far no one has been shot.
> 
> If they shoot anyone, the drones will be used against them.  Send the women and children out if it is martyrdom the men want.




I read the old fart in the rocking chair is a morm but are the others as well?


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## JakeStarkey

They are nearly all Mormons.


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## emilynghiem

koshergrl said:


> "To Bruce Babbitt's credit, he agreed when I told him: I think you would be surprised about what the local ranchers and citizens of Harney County would be willing to do if you give them a chance. To his credit, he said: All right, I will give them that chance. And he did.
> "We went to work on legislation. It took a full year. I worked with the Hammonds. I worked with Stacy Davies, I worked with all kinds of folks, put a staffer on it full-time, multiple staffs, and we worked with the environmental community and others. And we created the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Act, model legislation, never been done before, because I said: We don't have to live by past laws, we write laws.
> "So we wrote a new law to create a cooperative spirit of management in Harney County. The Hammonds were part of that discussion. We saved a running camp, Harlan Priority Runs. We protected inholder. We tried to do all the right things and create the kind of partnership and cooperation that the Federal Government and the citizens should have."
> 
> "Not long after that became law, and it was heralded as this monumental law of great significance and new era in cooperation and spirit of cooperation, some of those involved on the other side and some of the agencies decided to reinterpret it. The first thing they tried to do is shut down this kids' running camp because they said: Well, too many, maybe more than 20, run down this canyon and back up, as they had for many, many years. They wanted to shut it down. So we had to fight them back and said: No, the law says historical standards.
> "Then the bureaucrats, because we said: You should have your historical access to your private property, if you are up on Steens Mountain, you should maintain that access like you have always had it. Do you know what the bureaucrats said? They began to solicit from the inholders in this area: How many times did you go up there last year? You see, they wanted to put a noose around the neck of those who were inside. That was a total violation of what we intended, and we had to back them off.
> "See, the bureaucracy wants to interpret the laws we write in ways they want, and in this case they were wrong, not once, but twice.
> "Then, a couple of years ago, I learned that, despite the fact we created the first cow-free wilderness in the United States under this law, and said clearly in this law that it would be the responsibility of the government to put up fencing to keep the cows out, as part of the agreement, the Bureau of Land Management said: No, we are not going to follow that law. And they told the ranchers they had to build the fence.
> 
> "I networked with my Democrat colleague from Oregon, Mr. _DeFazio_, who was part of writing this law. I said: Peter, you remember that, right? He said: Yeah, I didn't like it, but that was the case. BLM still wouldn't listen. So we continued to push it and they argued back.
> Well, it turns out there had been a second rancher who brought this to my attention who they were telling had to do the same thing, build a fence, when the government was supposed to under the law I wrote. The arrogance of the agency was such that they said: We don't agree with you.
> Now, there aren't many times, Mr. Speaker, in this job when you can say I know what the intent of the law was, but in this case I could because I wrote the law, I knew the intent.
> Oh, that wasn't good enough. No, no, no. No, no, no. The arrogance of these agency people was such that we had to go to the archives and drag out the boxes from 2000, 1999-2000, when we wrote this law, from the hearings that had all the records for the hearings and the floor discussions to talk about the intent. And our retired Member, George Miller, actually we used some of his information where he said the government would provide the fencing. They were still reluctant to follow it. So I put language in the appropriations bill that restated the Federal law.
> Do you understand how frustrated I am at this? Can you imagine how the people on the ground feel? Can you imagine? If you are not there, you can't. If you are not there, you can't."
> 
> Oregon militants: Walden takes BLM to woodshed - transcript



Wow. Sounds like the bureaucracy and political oppression I saw go down in Freedmen's Town.
Federal laws reforming public housing were monumental, credited largely to Congressman Mickey Leeland and
local resident community leader Lenwood Johnson whose team co-authored the innovative Community Campus Concepts.
http://www.houstonprogressive.org
Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee and HUD Secretary Cisneros even signed in agreement on these plans
that set up democratically elected and managed tenant councils to participate in restoring two National Historic registered landmarks,
both the housing complex itself, a military WWII site, and the 40 block registered district of Freedmen's Town.

But like the above scenario, the bureaucrats with HACH/Housing Authority and bought-out City officials, whose campaigns and offices depend on bowing to developer interests,
abused public, federal, city and legal resources and authority to evict, censor and bulldoze and destroy these plans of the residents,
that were written into the subgrant agreements as requirements for the federal funding.  Nobody enforced that, because HACH is a pseudo-nonprofit, appointed by the city, but gets federal funds, and there is no check on this bureaucracy once they are in cahoots with the City that chooses developer interests over the national history and community.   Whenever violations or conflicts were found, the problems were never corrected.  Any officials blamed and removed simply got replaced with others carefully selected to continue the same pattern of corruption and abuse.  Abused funds never went back to the community plans and programs that were denied this help; like catching crooks stealing money intended to renovate a landmark site into a school, giving it to developers friends to demolish the community and site so the history is erased and can't be rescued later, but the govt seizes the money and doesn't return it to the people it was supposed to go to who are now facing triple the damages but aren't getting anything.  All their proof of wrongdoing is demolished, which is part of the plan, to rush and destroy first before any legal help can step in and stop it. Once the history is gone, it will be too late, like killing off the entire roomful of witnesses so nobody can ever testify to prove the wrongs committed.

The City cleverly redirected federal funds elsewhere and swapped out sources so they could say they weren't required to follow federal laws. Nobody can police that either, because the legal research it would take to PROVE IN COURT the laundering that went on is astronomical, and black minority and elderly church volunteers cannot afford that high level corporate legal battle.

The City abused this inequality in status to bypass any local or federal laws and protections that would have equally defended the residents interest in developing a sustainable campus that preserved the history, the community and relations with govt. Totally gutted the community and destroyed 3 national historic landmarks, including the Astrodome by wasting taxpayers money on abuse and mismanagement, waste, destruction of history, you name it.  All because the residents were NONVIOLENT, did not have legal resources to stop these violations, because all the lawyers and corporate interests will back the City in a clear conflict of interest politically.

No money was given to nonprofits to build the school and preserve the history,
but tax money was given to wealthy corporate developers to buy property and destroy history.
The city wasted 51 million on just one site they could own and control, and 4 millions saving 4 walls after a church burned down and they took over the property. So they only help if they can seize the property, and deny help to any other community nonprofit, even evicting them, to shut them out of the process and hope they die out. *Like genocide of native tribes -- abusing govt resources to seize destroy and control property while kicking out natives so they lose all rights.*

It has been an ongoing conspiracy to violate equal rights and protections, all abusing millions of taxpayer money to do so.
While denying any such equal help support or grants to the citizens and groups protecting the community and national history.
Tax money went to abusive corrupt dealings for developer and political profit.  Obscene.

All because the bigger bullies have more political and legal/financial resources to pay themselves for what they want from govt at taxpayer expense.
Even 3.4 million of taxpayer money was given away for free to wealthy corporate developer friends of the Mayor to grab land and destroy history.

So where is the equal protection under law  promised in the Constitution?
Only if you have guns and get the story into the media.
Or you have equal power and money to sue and WIN against corporate interests (like the pastor and church lobby that had to organize a very expensive
drawn out legal and media campaign that finally won their lawsuit against the City for abusing and violating the city's own given process to push a law by bypassing State law, Constitutional law, and the city's own policies "until they were sued in court and ordered by the judge to follow the city law."

Who can afford equal protection when bureaucrats don't need to follow city, state or federal laws unless they are sued and lose in court.

I totally understand why these BLM standoffs happen.
If bureaucrats don't follow the laws their agencies are supposed to be governed under,
then the citizens wronged have to act like the police and confront them with authority of law to compel them to COMPLY.

When citizens don't comply with laws and are asked to stop the violations or get arrested, we can get shot by armed police.
When govt doesn't comply with laws, they claim immunity! Then you have to sue to beat the immunity and try to argue your case and outlast the
endless resources of govt lawyers paid for with our tax money -- so what do they care if they are right or wrong or how long this drags on if the public pays for the cost of fighting. Our tax money automatically pays for govt even if we are suing them, but citizens have to raise our own funds to defend our side of the case.
We do not get "equal legal resources" as the opposing side we already pay for, so to even fight we have to pay additional costs even if the govt is in the wrong.

WTF


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## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> If they have an argument then make it in the appropriate places. Setting fires at your whim that are against the law isn't going to fly. People in Furgeson or any other city that commit vandalism are caught when possible and prosecuted.
> 
> I'm not overly concerned about this group occupying a building for a few days to make a point. Read Civil Disobedience by Thoreau, I support this. At gun point? Yes that is a problem.
> They've gotten a lot of attention to whatever it is they are angry about and now its time to follow the law and fight it out in court and the public square.
> 
> Occupy Wallstreet, Black Lives Matter, Greenpeace, et al. Civil disobedience is healthy if done in a healthy way.
> 
> Sticking a gun in someone's face or threatening the same isn't going to cut it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oregon standoff: Idaho group arrives to 'secure perimeter, prevent Waco-style situation'
Click to expand...



Good grief, more toothless hillbillies who are leeching off the Government.


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## Kosh

Carla_Danger said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> If they have an argument then make it in the appropriate places. Setting fires at your whim that are against the law isn't going to fly. People in Furgeson or any other city that commit vandalism are caught when possible and prosecuted.
> 
> I'm not overly concerned about this group occupying a building for a few days to make a point. Read Civil Disobedience by Thoreau, I support this. At gun point? Yes that is a problem.
> They've gotten a lot of attention to whatever it is they are angry about and now its time to follow the law and fight it out in court and the public square.
> 
> Occupy Wallstreet, Black Lives Matter, Greenpeace, et al. Civil disobedience is healthy if done in a healthy way.
> 
> Sticking a gun in someone's face or threatening the same isn't going to cut it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oregon standoff: Idaho group arrives to 'secure perimeter, prevent Waco-style situation'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Good grief, more toothless hillbillies who are leeching off the Government.
Click to expand...


Says the far left drone leeching off the government!


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## Luddly Neddite




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## emilynghiem

Luddly Neddite said:


>


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## Toro

Weren't conservatives big proponents of mandatory sentencing?

And if we didn't have mandatory sentencing, they wouldn't have to go to jail for as long as they did because they received light punishment by the original judge?


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## Luddly Neddite

JakeStarkey said:


> They are nearly all Mormons.




There goes the myth that morms don't drink alcohol.

And lie, steal and cheat.


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## JakeStarkey

And so do anti-Godists.  What's your point?


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## Moonglow

The OP's story forgot to tell you the outcome of the town meeting, they voted unanimously to have the so called patriots leave and go home....The militia is refusing to do what it said it would....


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## JakeStarkey

The residents want the remaining militia to go to their own families.

They are not needed.


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## TyroneSlothrop

when they asked for snacks the townsfolk said "molon labe" .......


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## Luddly Neddite

JakeStarkey said:


> And so do anti-Godists.  What's your point?




JakeStarkey

The people you refer to as "anti-godists" are not known for preaching how others should behave and then doing the opposite. Even if they do, that's a pretty lame excuse for  the "godists" who do it.

These yee-hadists' religion preaches abstaining from booze and yet they took cases of Coors lite (of all things!) and then stole donations to go into town to get drunked up.

Surely not even you can deny that is hypocritical and not very "godly". Even you cannot defend their lying, stealing and cheating.

Or can you?


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## JakeStarkey

anti-Godists condemn religion in the public forum.

Not acceptable and will always be stomped.

I agree these yee-hadists are lousy anti-Americans.


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## mamooth

The Hammonds had a chance for clemency before, but thanks to the seditious kooks, there's zero chance of it now. Such clemency would now be regarded as giving in to terrorist threats, and no governor of any party would ever go that way. If they did, everyone who wanted someone sprung from jail would run over and occupy some federal property.


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## JakeStarkey

The Hammonds did the crimes, now they will do the times.


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## Luddly Neddite

JakeStarkey said:


> The Hammonds did the crimes, now they will do the times.




Don't hold your breath.

They're not blacks, you know.

If they were, they'd all be laying face down with a bullet in their backs.


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## Vigilante




----------



## bodecea

Vigilante said:


>


Yeah...we're all saying "kill them"


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## Vigilante

bodecea said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...we're all saying "kill them"
Click to expand...


Thank you for the confirmation!


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## bodecea

Vigilante said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...we're all saying "kill them"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you for the confirmation!
Click to expand...

I see you aren't capable of higher level humor.


----------



## Camp

Vigilante said:


>


The right, led by Trump seem to be in a dilemma and lost as to why they hate us.
Your delusion that the left wants to "kill 'em" is just your imagination or a lie you want to promote.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Vigilante is a useful tool, nothing more, except as a laughable fool.


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## Vigilante

Why would I lie?...I'm not a Liberal, ANTI-AMERICAN like you are!

*Liberals Call for Violence to End Oregon Standoff: Send ...*
www.infowars.com/*liberals*-call-for-violence-to-end-*oregon*-st...
Alex Jones
5 days ago - _Liberals_ Call for Violence to End _Oregon_ Standoff: Send “National Guard With _Shoot_ to _Kill_ Orders” ... So it's time to _shoot_ down them bastards in _Oregon_. .... or converse with the peaceful _occupiers_ who are not there to _destroy_ ...


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## Vigilante

JakeStarkey said:


> Vigilante is a useful tool, nothing more, except as a laughable fool.



^^^^*HUGE IRONY*^^^^^


----------



## bodecea

Vigilante said:


> Why would I lie?...I'm not a Liberal, ANTI-AMERICAN like you are!
> 
> *Liberals Call for Violence to End Oregon Standoff: Send ...*
> www.infowars.com/*liberals*-call-for-violence-to-end-*oregon*-st...
> Alex Jones
> 5 days ago - _Liberals_ Call for Violence to End _Oregon_ Standoff: Send “National Guard With _Shoot_ to _Kill_ Orders” ... So it's time to _shoot_ down them bastards in _Oregon_. .... or converse with the peaceful _occupiers_ who are not there to _destroy_ ...


Alex Jones.


----------



## Vigilante

bodecea said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would I lie?...I'm not a Liberal, ANTI-AMERICAN like you are!
> 
> *Liberals Call for Violence to End Oregon Standoff: Send ...*
> www.infowars.com/*liberals*-call-for-violence-to-end-*oregon*-st...
> Alex Jones
> 5 days ago - _Liberals_ Call for Violence to End _Oregon_ Standoff: Send “National Guard With _Shoot_ to _Kill_ Orders” ... So it's time to _shoot_ down them bastards in _Oregon_. .... or converse with the peaceful _occupiers_ who are not there to _destroy_ ...
> 
> 
> 
> Alex Jones.
Click to expand...


Bodecea!


----------



## bodecea

Vigilante said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would I lie?...I'm not a Liberal, ANTI-AMERICAN like you are!
> 
> *Liberals Call for Violence to End Oregon Standoff: Send ...*
> www.infowars.com/*liberals*-call-for-violence-to-end-*oregon*-st...
> Alex Jones
> 5 days ago - _Liberals_ Call for Violence to End _Oregon_ Standoff: Send “National Guard With _Shoot_ to _Kill_ Orders” ... So it's time to _shoot_ down them bastards in _Oregon_. .... or converse with the peaceful _occupiers_ who are not there to _destroy_ ...
> 
> 
> 
> Alex Jones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bodecea!
Click to expand...

I notice a touch of sensitivity on your part, Vaggie.


----------



## Vigilante

bodecea said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would I lie?...I'm not a Liberal, ANTI-AMERICAN like you are!
> 
> *Liberals Call for Violence to End Oregon Standoff: Send ...*
> www.infowars.com/*liberals*-call-for-violence-to-end-*oregon*-st...
> Alex Jones
> 5 days ago - _Liberals_ Call for Violence to End _Oregon_ Standoff: Send “National Guard With _Shoot_ to _Kill_ Orders” ... So it's time to _shoot_ down them bastards in _Oregon_. .... or converse with the peaceful _occupiers_ who are not there to _destroy_ ...
> 
> 
> 
> Alex Jones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bodecea!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I notice a touch of sensitivity on your part, Vaggie.
Click to expand...


Where?...Did I drop it while bitch slapping your dumb ass?


----------



## bodecea

Vigilante said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would I lie?...I'm not a Liberal, ANTI-AMERICAN like you are!
> 
> *Liberals Call for Violence to End Oregon Standoff: Send ...*
> www.infowars.com/*liberals*-call-for-violence-to-end-*oregon*-st...
> Alex Jones
> 5 days ago - _Liberals_ Call for Violence to End _Oregon_ Standoff: Send “National Guard With _Shoot_ to _Kill_ Orders” ... So it's time to _shoot_ down them bastards in _Oregon_. .... or converse with the peaceful _occupiers_ who are not there to _destroy_ ...
> 
> 
> 
> Alex Jones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bodecea!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I notice a touch of sensitivity on your part, Vaggie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where?...Did I drop it while bitch slapping your dumb ass?
Click to expand...

Yep...there's that sensitivity.....it manifests itself when you go all foul-mouthed.  It's as good as you going belly up in the submission position.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Vigilante loves the submissive position.  He learned that in his army days.  There were always guys like that in our units, and probably in Bodecea's as well.  Very easy to spot the vigilantes.

Vigi, you are not a patriot, not a conservative, not a true American.

You are tool looking for someone to use you.  And that Trump is doing.  Your head will implode when Trump drops out, because you will have no where to go.


----------



## Vigilante

bodecea said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would I lie?...I'm not a Liberal, ANTI-AMERICAN like you are!
> 
> *Liberals Call for Violence to End Oregon Standoff: Send ...*
> www.infowars.com/*liberals*-call-for-violence-to-end-*oregon*-st...
> Alex Jones
> 5 days ago - _Liberals_ Call for Violence to End _Oregon_ Standoff: Send “National Guard With _Shoot_ to _Kill_ Orders” ... So it's time to _shoot_ down them bastards in _Oregon_. .... or converse with the peaceful _occupiers_ who are not there to _destroy_ ...
> 
> 
> 
> Alex Jones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bodecea!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I notice a touch of sensitivity on your part, Vaggie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where?...Did I drop it while bitch slapping your dumb ass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep...there's that sensitivity.....it manifests itself when you go all foul-mouthed.  It's as good as you going belly up in the submission position.
Click to expand...


Where, if it's mine return it, Submission position, it that what you do to your wife?


----------



## Vigilante

JakeStarkey said:


> Vigilante loves the submissive position.  He learned that in his army days.  There were always guys like that in our units, and probably in Bodecea's as well.  Very easy to spot the vigilantes.
> 
> Vigi, you are not a patriot, not a conservative, not a true American.
> 
> You are tool looking for someone to use you.  And that Trump is doing.  Your head will implode when Trump drops out, because you will have no where to go.



Enjoy the POWER that is Trump's!


----------



## JakeStarkey

He is the Wizard, the empty person behind the curtain.

He will fail.


----------



## emilynghiem

Luddly Neddite said:


>






C'mon Luddly Neddite
No response? Not even "Hey, those double standards apply to rightwing also!"

RE: Black vs. White standoffs
Oregon Patriots Decline Escort Out of Town | Page 5 | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

The Blacks standing up to enforce laws and American traditions
get censored by the media.  That's why you didn't compare to peaceful statements.
Where are they?

Try to find positive media coverage of  STAND
STAND America vs. media coverage of Black Lives Matter.
You'll just find criticism that these Pastors are "out of touch."

"If it bleeds, it leads"
The Pastors' movement isn't bloody and violent enough so you won't see it in the news.
Too Christian perhaps?

They are also asking to take back neighborhoods, but being PEACEFUL and civilized
doesn't get coverage like riots and vandalism does.

Maybe if all the Black Pastors came out flashing guns when they make public statements,
the media might take notice. Ya think?


----------

