# TNHarleys solution to the immigration problem



## TNHarley

1. MASSIVELY fine employers
2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
The economy you ask? The jobs?
After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.

Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise


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## bendog

3's unconstitutional, but other than that I could be ok with it.


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## TNHarley

You mean EMTALA? Amend it to where it only applies to citizens. Unless you think Washington doesn't really want to fix the immigration problem?


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## bendog

States must provide free public k-12 education to non-citizen children per the Scotus.  And, I really don't want docs to deny life saving ER treatment to any human being.

And then there are the children born here who are citizens, and that is not going to change.  It would require not only a statutue but the Scotus to reverse previous cases.


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## amrchaos

Actually, you could tie 3&4 together.

The minute they come in for a handout or medical assistance--wham, hit them with the citizenship route and throw them into a work program.


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## TNHarley

bendog said:


> States must provide free public k-12 education to non-citizen children per the Scotus.  And, I really don't want docs to deny life saving ER treatment to any human being.
> 
> And then there are the children born here who are citizens, and that is not going to change.  It would require not only a statutue but the Scotus to reverse previous cases.


 The children are citizens so...
And like I mentioned in the OP, sometimes solutions require you to straighten out your wrist lol


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## the_human_being

TNHarley said:


> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise



The problem is that no one is about to fine any employer for hiring illegals. Obamacare provided a loophole that affords a $3.000.00 incentive per illegal employee hired. This loophole is well known and is costing Americans jobs. Any employer is a fool not to hire an illegal alien over your kids or mine or even us for that matter. Congress is aware of the loophole but the Republicans have already stated that they will not do anything more concerning Obamacare while the President is in office. Burn Me Sanders and Hillary support subsidized Obamacare coverage for illegals as does the Democrats in Congress. This loophole is here to stay and will continue to penalize American job seekers.


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## TNHarley

amrchaos said:


> Actually, you could tie 3&4 together.
> 
> The minute they come in for a handout or medical assistance--wham, hit them with the citizenship route and throw them into a work program.


 Nope. They would take advantage of that just like everything else. Wouldn't you?


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## TNHarley

the_human_being said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is that no one is about to fine any employer for hiring illegals. Obamacare provided a loophole that affords a $3.000.00 incentive per illegal employee hired. This loophole is well known and is costing Americans jobs. Any employer is a fool not to hire an illegal alien over your kids or mine or even us for that matter. Congress is aware of the loophole but the Republicans have already stated that they will not do anything more concerning Obamacare while the President is in office. Burn Me Sanders and Hillary support subsidized Obamacare coverage for illegals as does the Democrats in Congress. This loophole is here to stay and will continue to penalize American job seekers.
Click to expand...

 I know. The chamber of commerce has the right bowing at their feet it seems like..


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## g5000

TNHarley said:


> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise


First, I would like to thank you for putting a proposed solution on the table.

Second, I would like to point out that most immigrants, legal and illegal, come here to find work, not to live on welfare.  They come here to support their families.  They have the same dreams and hopes and aspirations as every other mother and father on the planet.

Third, immigrants are over-represented in entrepreneurial startups in America.  While a lot of immigrants "take jobs Americans don't want", many of them bring very valuable skills, and we should encourage that kind of immigration.  Those who are here on visas to attend our universities should be encouraged to stay after they graduate.  At the very least, they should be made to feel welcome while they are here so they go back to their home countries as goodwill ambassadors for America.

Fourth, you are going to get a lot of shit from some of the rabid dogs for number 4, but not from me.


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## Agit8r

If one wants the "immigration problem" to go away, one just need turn off Fox News.


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## amrchaos

TNHarley said:


> amrchaos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you could tie 3&4 together.
> 
> The minute they come in for a handout or medical assistance--wham, hit them with the citizenship route and throw them into a work program.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. They would take advantage of that just like everything else. Wouldn't you?
Click to expand...


If they do not/refuse to complete the citizenship route(which would make no sense if they want to stay) you can cut off aid and pick them up.  

I see few fully illegals(most will turn up somewhere in the system) this way plus it helps locate them through the citizenship/benefit process.


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## Dante

TNHarley said:


> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise


Agree totally with #1 with a caveat: A guest worker program must be put in place first. This will of course cause problems of it's own like what to do with people who are employed seasonally.

#2 E-verify where any employee lives? For immigrants only? Legal immigrants too? Some hesitancy but, okay

#3 Nuts! All legally employed immigrants will  have a legal status. If they are unemployeed and ill we must treat them -- then do we send them home?

#4 Nuts multiplied. Immigration status to citizenship status should stay tough. We should do some things like Canada does

We need to temporarily stop taking in all those tired and poor


----------



## the_human_being

TNHarley said:


> the_human_being said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is that no one is about to fine any employer for hiring illegals. Obamacare provided a loophole that affords a $3.000.00 incentive per illegal employee hired. This loophole is well known and is costing Americans jobs. Any employer is a fool not to hire an illegal alien over your kids or mine or even us for that matter. Congress is aware of the loophole but the Republicans have already stated that they will not do anything more concerning Obamacare while the President is in office. Burn Me Sanders and Hillary support subsidized Obamacare coverage for illegals as does the Democrats in Congress. This loophole is here to stay and will continue to penalize American job seekers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know. The chamber of commerce has the right bowing at their feet it seems like..
Click to expand...


That Lady that quit Congress, Bauchmann or something like that, came right out and stated that she was so disgusted with the House Speaker and Mitch McConnell because of it that she couldn't take their shenanigans any longer. It's a real shame. The Tea Party tried to honor their pledges to the American people but got vilified so much by the RINO's and the media, they too are almost neutered. The country is screwed.


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## Dante

bendog said:


> 3's unconstitutional, but other than that I could be ok with it.


How so? illegal immigrants who get some of those things, get them because of state laws, not federal ones. Or do they? How is it unconstitutional?


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## Dante

TNHarley said:


> You mean EMTALA? Amend it to where it only applies to citizens. Unless you think Washington doesn't really want to fix the immigration problem?


Paul Ryan has promised his right wingers in Congress to not to try and fix immigration


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## TNHarley

amrchaos said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amrchaos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you could tie 3&4 together.
> 
> The minute they come in for a handout or medical assistance--wham, hit them with the citizenship route and throw them into a work program.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. They would take advantage of that just like everything else. Wouldn't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If they do not/refuse to complete the citizenship route(which would make no sense if they want to stay) you can cut off aid and pick them up.
> 
> I see few fully illegals(most will turn up somewhere in the system) this way plus it helps locate them through the citizenship/benefit process.
Click to expand...

 If you give them an inch, they will take a mile. If they come in to the ER give them a pamphlet on our great immigration process and show them the door.
I am willing to compromise, but not throw my premise out the window


----------



## Dante

the_human_being said:


> That Lady that quit Congress, Bauchmann or something like that, came right out and stated that she was so disgusted with the House Speaker and Mitch McConnell because of it that she couldn't take their shenanigans any longer. It's a real shame. The Tea Party tried to honor their pledges to the American people but got vilified so much by the RINO's and the media, they too are almost neutered. The country is screwed.



The nation did NOT elected the whacko Tea Partiers. They got elected in Congressional districts. They campaigned in  small districts around the nation. Few were elected


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## TNHarley

Dante said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean EMTALA? Amend it to where it only applies to citizens. Unless you think Washington doesn't really want to fix the immigration problem?
> 
> 
> 
> Paul Ryan has promised his right wingers in Congress to not to try and fix immigration
Click to expand...

 Paul also announced a chamber fr commerce lobbyist will be his chief of staff. Explains a lot!!


----------



## the_human_being

Dante said:


> the_human_being said:
> 
> 
> 
> That Lady that quit Congress, Bauchmann or something like that, came right out and stated that she was so disgusted with the House Speaker and Mitch McConnell because of it that she couldn't take their shenanigans any longer. It's a real shame. The Tea Party tried to honor their pledges to the American people but got vilified so much by the RINO's and the media, they too are almost neutered. The country is screwed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nation did NOT elected the whacko Tea Partiers. They got elected in Congressional districts. They campaigned in  small districts around the nation. Few were elected
Click to expand...


Exactly. They did attempt to honor their pledges to those who elected them though, unlike the establishment Repubs.


----------



## TNHarley

Dante said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> Agree totally with #1 with a caveat: A guest worker program must be put in place first. This will of course cause problems of it's own like what to do with people who are employed seasonally.
> 
> #2 E-verify where any employee lives? For immigrants only? Legal immigrants too? Some hesitancy but, okay
> 
> #3 Nuts! All legally employed immigrants will  have a legal status. If they are unemployeed and ill we must treat them -- then do we send them home?
> 
> #4 Nuts multiplied. Immigration status to citizenship status should stay tough. We should do some things like Canada does
> 
> We need to temporarily stop taking in all those tired and poor
Click to expand...

1. we could definitely work on something like that
2. No, when people rent out houses or something. Sorry if I wasn't clear
3. They have legal status so...
4. I don't agree. I also think that will light a fire under foreigners with skill. There might not be merit with that, but I stand on it until it can be proven otherwise.
The bottom I somewhat agree with.. We do need to focus on America...
Thanks Dante!


----------



## amrchaos

TNHarley said:


> amrchaos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amrchaos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you could tie 3&4 together.
> 
> The minute they come in for a handout or medical assistance--wham, hit them with the citizenship route and throw them into a work program.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. They would take advantage of that just like everything else. Wouldn't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If they do not/refuse to complete the citizenship route(which would make no sense if they want to stay) you can cut off aid and pick them up.
> 
> I see few fully illegals(most will turn up somewhere in the system) this way plus it helps locate them through the citizenship/benefit process.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you give them an inch, they will take a mile. If they come in to the ER give them a pamphlet on our great immigration process and show them the door.
> I am willing to compromise, but not throw my premise out the window
Click to expand...

Well, You have a generally good idea

I was trying to suck em into the system as quickly as possible so it is easier to deal with the.

Right now, the biggest problem is finding them(we have a general idea of those using benefits and drawing them out is akin to fishing)


----------



## Dante

TNHarley said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean EMTALA? Amend it to where it only applies to citizens. Unless you think Washington doesn't really want to fix the immigration problem?
> 
> 
> 
> Paul Ryan has promised his right wingers in Congress to not to try and fix immigration
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Paul also announced a chamber fr commerce lobbyist will be his chief of staff. Explains a lot!!
Click to expand...

Mr Ryan is a fraud. Oh, he didn't really want the Speaker's job!

what a _crock-o-shit_


----------



## Dante

TNHarley said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> Agree totally with #1 with a caveat: A guest worker program must be put in place first. This will of course cause problems of it's own like what to do with people who are employed seasonally.
> 
> #2 E-verify where any employee lives? For immigrants only? Legal immigrants too? Some hesitancy but, okay
> 
> #3 Nuts! All legally employed immigrants will  have a legal status. If they are unemployeed and ill we must treat them -- then do we send them home?
> 
> #4 Nuts multiplied. Immigration status to citizenship status should stay tough. We should do some things like Canada does
> 
> We need to temporarily stop taking in all those tired and poor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1. we could definitely work on something like that
> 2. No, when people rent out houses or something. Sorry if I wasn't clear
> 3. They have legal status so...
> 4. I don't agree. I also think that will light a fire under foreigners with skill. There might not be merit with that, but I stand on it until it can be proven otherwise.
> The bottom I somewhat agree with.. We do need to focus on America...
> Thanks Dante!
Click to expand...

You want the government involved in rental agreements? Too crazy. Better yet, why don't neighbors tar and feather bad landlords?


----------



## TNHarley

Dante said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean EMTALA? Amend it to where it only applies to citizens. Unless you think Washington doesn't really want to fix the immigration problem?
> 
> 
> 
> Paul Ryan has promised his right wingers in Congress to not to try and fix immigration
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Paul also announced a chamber fr commerce lobbyist will be his chief of staff. Explains a lot!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mr Ryan is a fraud. Oh, he didn't really want the Speaker's job!
> 
> what a _crock-o-shit_
Click to expand...

 Agreed!!!


----------



## Dante

TNHarley said:


> We do need to focus on America...
> Thanks Dante!


Most 
Americans from all of the political spectrum would agree. The problem is the loudest or craziest voice gets the most media attention. Look at religion and the Westboro Baptist Church -- a family of kooks with their own church


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## TNHarley

Dante said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> Agree totally with #1 with a caveat: A guest worker program must be put in place first. This will of course cause problems of it's own like what to do with people who are employed seasonally.
> 
> #2 E-verify where any employee lives? For immigrants only? Legal immigrants too? Some hesitancy but, okay
> 
> #3 Nuts! All legally employed immigrants will  have a legal status. If they are unemployeed and ill we must treat them -- then do we send them home?
> 
> #4 Nuts multiplied. Immigration status to citizenship status should stay tough. We should do some things like Canada does
> 
> We need to temporarily stop taking in all those tired and poor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1. we could definitely work on something like that
> 2. No, when people rent out houses or something. Sorry if I wasn't clear
> 3. They have legal status so...
> 4. I don't agree. I also think that will light a fire under foreigners with skill. There might not be merit with that, but I stand on it until it can be proven otherwise.
> The bottom I somewhat agree with.. We do need to focus on America...
> Thanks Dante!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You want the government involved in rental agreements? Too crazy. Better yet, why don't neighbors tar and feather bad landlords?
Click to expand...

 Requiring e-verify for renting is that big of a deal?


----------



## Dante

I worked in an industry with loads of illegals and lived next yo an industrial laundry place that only hired illegals after helping them to acquire a status of being in the system. Being in the system keeps people from being deported


----------



## Dante

TNHarley said:


> Requiring e-verify for renting is that big of a deal?


Yes and no. But then all subsidized rentals in America require proof of immigration status as do most state benefits. I worked in teh social service area for a short period of time, but knew others who worked there their whole lives.

It is the social workers and outreach workers who scam the system most (like I said about the VA) . They find ways for clients and potential clients to scam the system and get into the system. This I KNOW from EXPERIENCE to be factual


----------



## Soggy in NOLA

bendog said:


> 3's unconstitutional, but other than that I could be ok with it.



I mean ok, I'm not in favor of letting people rot in the streets, but why are the others unconstitutional?  If they can't pas muster with e-verify, then they can't work here legally, so, they won't pay  taxes... but I have to pay to educate their children, in their native language?  Uh uh.. no way.


----------



## Dante

amrchaos said:


> Well, You have a generally good idea
> 
> I was trying to suck em into the system as quickly as possible so it is easier to deal with the.
> 
> Right now, the biggest problem is finding them(we have a general idea of those using benefits and drawing them out is akin to fishing)


Anyone USING benefits is known.

JEsus, who left the door open?


----------



## Siete

TNHarley said:


> You mean EMTALA? Amend it to where it only applies to citizens. Unless you think Washington doesn't really want to fix the immigration problem?



They don't. The last two  Presidents had a majority congress at their disposal, neither one did squat. Yammer about it all you want. SSDD. Personally I'm pro ENFORCE THE LAWS ON THE BOOKS.

Until that takes place what leads anyone to believe new ones will make a shit ?


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## DigitalDrifter

I've said for a long time, if we would penalize ALL employers with heavy fines, and jail time, most of the invasion would eventually end.


----------



## Contumacious

TNHarley said:


> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise





*KKK Joins Immigration Debate With Calls for "Corpses" on the Border*


----------



## MisterBeale

Contumacious said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *KKK Joins Immigration Debate With Calls for "Corpses" on the Border*
Click to expand...

That Klan reaching out to African Americans?  It reads like a GD Onion article.  

“We’re starting to see the whites and African-Americans waking up to this illegal immigration problem,” Jones said. “We’re starting to reach out more to the African-American community and talk to them about the same issues, and they’re agreeing with the Klan that illegal immigration needs to stop.”


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

g5000 said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> First, I would like to thank you for putting a proposed solution on the table.
> 
> Second, I would like to point out that most immigrants, legal and illegal, come here to find work, not to live on welfare.  They come here to support their families.  They have the same dreams and hopes and aspirations as every other mother and father on the planet.
> 
> Third, immigrants are over-represented in entrepreneurial startups in America.  While a lot of immigrants "take jobs Americans don't want", many of them bring very valuable skills, and we should encourage that kind of immigration.  Those who are here on visas to attend our universities should be encouraged to stay after they graduate.  At the very least, they should be made to feel welcome while they are here so they go back to their home countries as goodwill ambassadors for America.
> 
> Fourth, you are going to get a lot of shit from some of the rabid dogs for number 4, but not from me.
Click to expand...


You're right, G5000.  I cannot speak for all immigrants but the immigrants coming from Mexico are very hard working people.   They come here for work to support their families _and _to send money back home to their parents, grandparents, cousins, those in need.  I would venture to say they have a better work ethic than most Americans do.  I have never met a Mexican person who wanted to collect welfare and stay at home!  Ever.


----------



## Penelope

the_human_being said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is that no one is about to fine any employer for hiring illegals. Obamacare provided a loophole that affords a $3.000.00 incentive per illegal employee hired. This loophole is well known and is costing Americans jobs. Any employer is a fool not to hire an illegal alien over your kids or mine or even us for that matter. Congress is aware of the loophole but the Republicans have already stated that they will not do anything more concerning Obamacare while the President is in office. Burn Me Sanders and Hillary support subsidized Obamacare coverage for illegals as does the Democrats in Congress. This loophole is here to stay and will continue to penalize American job seekers.
Click to expand...


Really your kidding. You can hire an illegal as long as that illegal does not make over 3 grand, and we have to send 1099's out for anything over $600.


----------



## Siete

Jeremiah said:


> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> First, I would like to thank you for putting a proposed solution on the table.
> 
> Second, I would like to point out that most immigrants, legal and illegal, come here to find work, not to live on welfare.  They come here to support their families.  They have the same dreams and hopes and aspirations as every other mother and father on the planet.
> 
> Third, immigrants are over-represented in entrepreneurial startups in America.  While a lot of immigrants "take jobs Americans don't want", many of them bring very valuable skills, and we should encourage that kind of immigration.  Those who are here on visas to attend our universities should be encouraged to stay after they graduate.  At the very least, they should be made to feel welcome while they are here so they go back to their home countries as goodwill ambassadors for America.
> 
> Fourth, you are going to get a lot of shit from some of the rabid dogs for number 4, but not from me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're right, G5000.  I cannot speak for all immigrants but the immigrants coming from Mexico are very hard working people.   They come here for work to support their families _and _to send money back home to their parents, grandparents, cousins, those in need.  I would venture to say they have a better work ethic than most Americans do.  I have never met a Mexican person who wanted to collect welfare and stay at home!  Ever.
Click to expand...


Mexicans collecting welfare is a RW talking point and anti social program rant RW's are famous for. Workers from Mexico want to make as much $$ as they can, not sit on their ass and whine like the dolts on this board.


----------



## Contumacious

MisterBeale said:


> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *KKK Joins Immigration Debate With Calls for "Corpses" on the Border*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That Klan reaching out to African Americans?  It reads like a GD Onion article.
> 
> “We’re starting to see the whites and African-Americans waking up to this illegal immigration problem,” Jones said. “We’re starting to reach out more to the African-American community and talk to them about the same issues, and they’re agreeing with the Klan that illegal immigration needs to stop.”
Click to expand...









The *Ku Klux Klan* (*KKK*), or simply "*the Klan*", is the name of three distinct past and present movements in the United States that have advocated extremist reactionary currents such as white supremacy, white nationalism, and anti-immigration, historically expressed through terrorism aimed at groups or individuals whom they opposed.[6] The first organization sought to overthrow the Republican state governments in the South during the Reconstruction Era, especially by using violence against African American leaders. With numerous chapters across the South, it was suppressed around 1871, through federal enforcement. The second group was founded in 1915 and after 1921 it rapidly expanded into a very large nationwide organization. It opposed Catholics and Jews, especially newer immigrants. The current manifestation consists of numerous small unconnected groups that use the KKK name. All three movements have called for the purification of American society, and all are considered right wing extremist organizations.[7][8][9][10]


----------



## DigitalDrifter

Jeremiah said:


> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> First, I would like to thank you for putting a proposed solution on the table.
> 
> Second, I would like to point out that most immigrants, legal and illegal, come here to find work, not to live on welfare.  They come here to support their families.  They have the same dreams and hopes and aspirations as every other mother and father on the planet.
> 
> Third, immigrants are over-represented in entrepreneurial startups in America.  While a lot of immigrants "take jobs Americans don't want", many of them bring very valuable skills, and we should encourage that kind of immigration.  Those who are here on visas to attend our universities should be encouraged to stay after they graduate.  At the very least, they should be made to feel welcome while they are here so they go back to their home countries as goodwill ambassadors for America.
> 
> Fourth, you are going to get a lot of shit from some of the rabid dogs for number 4, but not from me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're right, G5000.  I cannot speak for all immigrants but the immigrants coming from Mexico are very hard working people.   They come here for work to support their families _and _to send money back home to their parents, grandparents, cousins, those in need.  I would venture to say they have a better work ethic than most Americans do.  I have never met a Mexican person who wanted to collect welfare and stay at home!  Ever.
Click to expand...


I don't give a fuck how hard a worker someone is, if they sneaked in and they are here illegally, they should be sent right back where they came from !


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

DigitalDrifter said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> First, I would like to thank you for putting a proposed solution on the table.
> 
> Second, I would like to point out that most immigrants, legal and illegal, come here to find work, not to live on welfare.  They come here to support their families.  They have the same dreams and hopes and aspirations as every other mother and father on the planet.
> 
> Third, immigrants are over-represented in entrepreneurial startups in America.  While a lot of immigrants "take jobs Americans don't want", many of them bring very valuable skills, and we should encourage that kind of immigration.  Those who are here on visas to attend our universities should be encouraged to stay after they graduate.  At the very least, they should be made to feel welcome while they are here so they go back to their home countries as goodwill ambassadors for America.
> 
> Fourth, you are going to get a lot of shit from some of the rabid dogs for number 4, but not from me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're right, G5000.  I cannot speak for all immigrants but the immigrants coming from Mexico are very hard working people.   They come here for work to support their families _and _to send money back home to their parents, grandparents, cousins, those in need.  I would venture to say they have a better work ethic than most Americans do.  I have never met a Mexican person who wanted to collect welfare and stay at home!  Ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't give a fuck how hard a worker someone is, if they sneaked in and they are here illegally, they should be sent right back where they came from !
Click to expand...


While I agree that we should all abide by the laws of this land my point was to clarify that the Mexican people do not come here for a welfare check.  They are coming here for work and for a future.  I agree with the OP on point number 4.   Make citizenship easier.  

To portray the Mexican people as lazy is grossly unfair.  They are a very hardworking, industrious people and desire to earn their own way rather than accept a hand out.   They are living under very stressful conditions and it is understandable they would want a safe place to live and a future for their families.  Don't you?


----------



## DigitalDrifter

Jeremiah said:


> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> First, I would like to thank you for putting a proposed solution on the table.
> 
> Second, I would like to point out that most immigrants, legal and illegal, come here to find work, not to live on welfare.  They come here to support their families.  They have the same dreams and hopes and aspirations as every other mother and father on the planet.
> 
> Third, immigrants are over-represented in entrepreneurial startups in America.  While a lot of immigrants "take jobs Americans don't want", many of them bring very valuable skills, and we should encourage that kind of immigration.  Those who are here on visas to attend our universities should be encouraged to stay after they graduate.  At the very least, they should be made to feel welcome while they are here so they go back to their home countries as goodwill ambassadors for America.
> 
> Fourth, you are going to get a lot of shit from some of the rabid dogs for number 4, but not from me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're right, G5000.  I cannot speak for all immigrants but the immigrants coming from Mexico are very hard working people.   They come here for work to support their families _and _to send money back home to their parents, grandparents, cousins, those in need.  I would venture to say they have a better work ethic than most Americans do.  I have never met a Mexican person who wanted to collect welfare and stay at home!  Ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't give a fuck how hard a worker someone is, if they sneaked in and they are here illegally, they should be sent right back where they came from !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While I agree that we should all abide by the laws of this land my point was to clarify that the Mexican people do not come here for a welfare check.  They are coming here for work and for a future.  I agree with the OP on point number 4.   Make citizenship easier.
> 
> To portray the Mexican people as lazy is grossly unfair.  They are a very hardworking, industrious people and desire to earn their own way rather than accept a hand out.   They are living under very stressful conditions and it is understandable they would want a safe place to live and a future for their families.  Don't you?
Click to expand...


I don't think they are any more lazy than any other group, some are hard workers, some come here to have their offspring in order to be entitled to benefits.
Regardless, they should show respect for our immigration laws. Millions have not, and in fact Mexicans are the #1 offenders.
I would send every single one who is here illegally back if it were up to me.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

DigitalDrifter said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> First, I would like to thank you for putting a proposed solution on the table.
> 
> Second, I would like to point out that most immigrants, legal and illegal, come here to find work, not to live on welfare.  They come here to support their families.  They have the same dreams and hopes and aspirations as every other mother and father on the planet.
> 
> Third, immigrants are over-represented in entrepreneurial startups in America.  While a lot of immigrants "take jobs Americans don't want", many of them bring very valuable skills, and we should encourage that kind of immigration.  Those who are here on visas to attend our universities should be encouraged to stay after they graduate.  At the very least, they should be made to feel welcome while they are here so they go back to their home countries as goodwill ambassadors for America.
> 
> Fourth, you are going to get a lot of shit from some of the rabid dogs for number 4, but not from me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're right, G5000.  I cannot speak for all immigrants but the immigrants coming from Mexico are very hard working people.   They come here for work to support their families _and _to send money back home to their parents, grandparents, cousins, those in need.  I would venture to say they have a better work ethic than most Americans do.  I have never met a Mexican person who wanted to collect welfare and stay at home!  Ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't give a fuck how hard a worker someone is, if they sneaked in and they are here illegally, they should be sent right back where they came from !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While I agree that we should all abide by the laws of this land my point was to clarify that the Mexican people do not come here for a welfare check.  They are coming here for work and for a future.  I agree with the OP on point number 4.   Make citizenship easier.
> 
> To portray the Mexican people as lazy is grossly unfair.  They are a very hardworking, industrious people and desire to earn their own way rather than accept a hand out.   They are living under very stressful conditions and it is understandable they would want a safe place to live and a future for their families.  Don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think they are any more lazy than any other group, some are hard workers, some come here to have their offspring in order to be entitled to benefits.
> Regardless, they should show respect for our immigration laws. Millions have not, and in fact Mexicans are the #1 offenders.
> I would send every single one who is here illegally back if it were up to me.
Click to expand...


I've met people from Mexico and know firsthand that they are very hardworking people.  Whatever trade they are in?  They work harder than the rest do.  What I'd like for you to do is to think about how you would feel if you lived in a neighborhood where violence ruled the streets and you feared for the lives of your family members. Where your neighbors disappeared in broad daylight never to be seen again.  If you saw others crossing the border and lax laws on US immigration would you not at least try to get your family across the border?   Given the right set of circumstances?  I believe you would.  You see, you do not know what you would do unless you were confronted with such a predicament.  Have some compassion.   Do you have any idea how many Mexican people have settled for lower pay - even under the minimum wage in order to have the opportunity to live here?   They've been exploited by their own government, exploited by employers here in America and complain the least.  I believe in obeying the laws of the land but becoming a citizen should be made easier for these people. imo.


----------



## amrchaos

MisterBeale said:


> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *KKK Joins Immigration Debate With Calls for "Corpses" on the Border*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That Klan reaching out to African Americans?  It reads like a GD Onion article.
> 
> “We’re starting to see the whites and African-Americans waking up to this illegal immigration problem,” Jones said. “We’re starting to reach out more to the African-American community and talk to them about the same issues, and they’re agreeing with the Klan that illegal immigration needs to stop.”
Click to expand...


Blacks and the KKK working together to solve a common problem?  Nothing new there.


----------



## Contumacious

DigitalDrifter said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> First, I would like to thank you for putting a proposed solution on the table.
> 
> Second, I would like to point out that most immigrants, legal and illegal, come here to find work, not to live on welfare.  They come here to support their families.  They have the same dreams and hopes and aspirations as every other mother and father on the planet.
> 
> Third, immigrants are over-represented in entrepreneurial startups in America.  While a lot of immigrants "take jobs Americans don't want", many of them bring very valuable skills, and we should encourage that kind of immigration.  Those who are here on visas to attend our universities should be encouraged to stay after they graduate.  At the very least, they should be made to feel welcome while they are here so they go back to their home countries as goodwill ambassadors for America.
> 
> Fourth, you are going to get a lot of shit from some of the rabid dogs for number 4, but not from me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're right, G5000.  I cannot speak for all immigrants but the immigrants coming from Mexico are very hard working people.   They come here for work to support their families _and _to send money back home to their parents, grandparents, cousins, those in need.  I would venture to say they have a better work ethic than most Americans do.  I have never met a Mexican person who wanted to collect welfare and stay at home!  Ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't give a fuck how hard a worker someone is, if they sneaked in and they are here illegally, they should be sent right back where they came from !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While I agree that we should all abide by the laws of this land my point was to clarify that the Mexican people do not come here for a welfare check.  They are coming here for work and for a future.  I agree with the OP on point number 4.   Make citizenship easier.
> 
> To portray the Mexican people as lazy is grossly unfair.  They are a very hardworking, industrious people and desire to earn their own way rather than accept a hand out.   They are living under very stressful conditions and it is understandable they would want a safe place to live and a future for their families.  Don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think they are any more lazy than any other group, some are hard workers, some come here to have their offspring in order to be entitled to benefits.
> Regardless, they should show respect for our immigration laws. Millions have not, and in fact Mexicans are the #1 offenders.
> I would send every single one who is here illegally back if it were up to me.
Click to expand...




When the welfare state was created in 1935 and cemented by LBJ in 1965 were Mexicans or other Hispanics represented in Congress or any other state of the union?


So don't blame Mexicans or other Latinamericans because corrupt politicians wanted to BUY votes.


.


----------



## Contumacious

amrchaos said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *KKK Joins Immigration Debate With Calls for "Corpses" on the Border*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That Klan reaching out to African Americans?  It reads like a GD Onion article.
> 
> “We’re starting to see the whites and African-Americans waking up to this illegal immigration problem,” Jones said. “We’re starting to reach out more to the African-American community and talk to them about the same issues, and they’re agreeing with the Klan that illegal immigration needs to stop.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Blacks and the KKK working together to solve a common problem?  Nothing new there.
Click to expand...











Of course, for an organization that claims, "If it ain’t white, it ain’t right,”  a KKK - Afro-American  relationship seems improbable at best.


.


----------



## OKTexas

First you don't do anything until the borders are secured and a workable entry/exit system is in place. I would make everyone who enters the country on a visa buy a return to origin bond. Might cost 10-15 dollars. That money goes into a protected fund, when records show a visa holder hasn't departed as agreed, they are declared a fugitive and we send bounty hunters out to pick them up. Terms of the bond would stipulate they agree that they have no legal standing to challenge deportation once declared a fugitive by ICE.

Next you don't allow anyone to immigrate to this country that don't have the resources in pocket to sustain themselves and their families for a minimum of one year. Nine months from their entry their status on sustainability will be reviewed, if they can't demonstrate they can continue to care for themselves and their families, they will be given 90 days to leave.

Abolish birthright citizenship to all foreign nationals, whether they are here legally or not. If people who come here legally their children born here or not will be granted citizenship at the time the parents are, if the child is under 18 at that time. If they are over 18 they will need to qualify for citizenship on their own.

As for the people here illegally we deport them as we find them, period end of story. We don't reward people who have disregarded our laws from day one.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

"TNHarleys solution to the immigration problem"

There is no immigration 'problem.'

Thousands of immigrants come to the United States legally; the OP must have meant _*undocumented*_ immigrants – a telling slip, as it comes as no surprise that many on the right are hostile to all immigrants, whether here legally or not.

And that the OP is unaware that item 3 is un-Constitutional also comes as no surprise, as such ignorance of the law is likewise common to many on the right.


----------



## TNHarley

Jeremiah said:


> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> First, I would like to thank you for putting a proposed solution on the table.
> 
> Second, I would like to point out that most immigrants, legal and illegal, come here to find work, not to live on welfare.  They come here to support their families.  They have the same dreams and hopes and aspirations as every other mother and father on the planet.
> 
> Third, immigrants are over-represented in entrepreneurial startups in America.  While a lot of immigrants "take jobs Americans don't want", many of them bring very valuable skills, and we should encourage that kind of immigration.  Those who are here on visas to attend our universities should be encouraged to stay after they graduate.  At the very least, they should be made to feel welcome while they are here so they go back to their home countries as goodwill ambassadors for America.
> 
> Fourth, you are going to get a lot of shit from some of the rabid dogs for number 4, but not from me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're right, G5000.  I cannot speak for all immigrants but the immigrants coming from Mexico are very hard working people.   They come here for work to support their families _and _to send money back home to their parents, grandparents, cousins, those in need.  I would venture to say they have a better work ethic than most Americans do.  I have never met a Mexican person who wanted to collect welfare and stay at home!  Ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't give a fuck how hard a worker someone is, if they sneaked in and they are here illegally, they should be sent right back where they came from !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While I agree that we should all abide by the laws of this land my point was to clarify that the Mexican people do not come here for a welfare check.  They are coming here for work and for a future.  I agree with the OP on point number 4.   Make citizenship easier.
> 
> To portray the Mexican people as lazy is grossly unfair.  They are a very hardworking, industrious people and desire to earn their own way rather than accept a hand out.   They are living under very stressful conditions and it is understandable they would want a safe place to live and a future for their families.  Don't you?
Click to expand...

 Well, I meant ALL immigrants. And Mexico got voted in the top 10 of happiest countries on Earth. JS


----------



## Disir

TNHarley said:


> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise


.

1. Prison + confiscation of business and/or property.
2.  Now explain how your going to enforce it and how your going to fund it.  There are states that have mandatory e-verify but have no apparatus in place to assure compliance.
'The poultry industry never stops': How E-Verify, immigration rules work in Big Chicken hiring
3. Can't do that.  I support no drivers licenses. You don't have a right to a drivers license.
4. No.  No immigration until the US takes care of it's own.


----------



## Missouri_Mike

TNHarley said:


> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise


We actually don't need them. Becoming a citizen should be hard. And we should be selective with who we let in.


----------



## Missouri_Mike

Jeremiah said:


> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> First, I would like to thank you for putting a proposed solution on the table.
> 
> Second, I would like to point out that most immigrants, legal and illegal, come here to find work, not to live on welfare.  They come here to support their families.  They have the same dreams and hopes and aspirations as every other mother and father on the planet.
> 
> Third, immigrants are over-represented in entrepreneurial startups in America.  While a lot of immigrants "take jobs Americans don't want", many of them bring very valuable skills, and we should encourage that kind of immigration.  Those who are here on visas to attend our universities should be encouraged to stay after they graduate.  At the very least, they should be made to feel welcome while they are here so they go back to their home countries as goodwill ambassadors for America.
> 
> Fourth, you are going to get a lot of shit from some of the rabid dogs for number 4, but not from me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're right, G5000.  I cannot speak for all immigrants but the immigrants coming from Mexico are very hard working people.   They come here for work to support their families _and _to send money back home to their parents, grandparents, cousins, those in need.  I would venture to say they have a better work ethic than most Americans do.  I have never met a Mexican person who wanted to collect welfare and stay at home!  Ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't give a fuck how hard a worker someone is, if they sneaked in and they are here illegally, they should be sent right back where they came from !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While I agree that we should all abide by the laws of this land my point was to clarify that the Mexican people do not come here for a welfare check.  They are coming here for work and for a future.  I agree with the OP on point number 4.   Make citizenship easier.
> 
> To portray the Mexican people as lazy is grossly unfair.  They are a very hardworking, industrious people and desire to earn their own way rather than accept a hand out.   They are living under very stressful conditions and it is understandable they would want a safe place to live and a future for their families.  Don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think they are any more lazy than any other group, some are hard workers, some come here to have their offspring in order to be entitled to benefits.
> Regardless, they should show respect for our immigration laws. Millions have not, and in fact Mexicans are the #1 offenders.
> I would send every single one who is here illegally back if it were up to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've met people from Mexico and know firsthand that they are very hardworking people.  Whatever trade they are in?  They work harder than the rest do.  What I'd like for you to do is to think about how you would feel if you lived in a neighborhood where violence ruled the streets and you feared for the lives of your family members. Where your neighbors disappeared in broad daylight never to be seen again.  If you saw others crossing the border and lax laws on US immigration would you not at least try to get your family across the border?   Given the right set of circumstances?  I believe you would.  You see, you do not know what you would do unless you were confronted with such a predicament.  Have some compassion.   Do you have any idea how many Mexican people have settled for lower pay - even under the minimum wage in order to have the opportunity to live here?   They've been exploited by their own government, exploited by employers here in America and complain the least.  I believe in obeying the laws of the land but becoming a citizen should be made easier for these people. imo.
Click to expand...

How about they stand the hell up and fix their own country. It's not our problem Mexico is a shit hole. And we don't need to adjust our laws to accomodate them. If they want shit fixed just ask. Until then your citizens get to live under your rule as shitty as it is.


----------



## BluesLegend

Just tell illegals to get the hell out of OUR country and don't come back.


----------



## TNHarley

Disir said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 1. Prison + confiscation of business and/or property.
> 2.  Now explain how your going to enforce it and how your going to fund it.  There are states that have mandatory e-verify but have no apparatus in place to assure compliance.
> 'The poultry industry never stops': How E-Verify, immigration rules work in Big Chicken hiring
> 3. Can't do that.  I support no drivers licenses. You don't have a right to a drivers license.
> 4. No.  No immigration until the US takes care of it's own.
Click to expand...

1.  I like that. To be sold publically of course 
2. Fund it with public dollars. When all of those people leave by choice, we would start saving money. I would bet almost immediately. That's when those fines and such could kick in. For landlords too. If we are going to do this, we have to do it RIGHT.
3. Why cant we?
4. It should be debated


----------



## TNHarley

Missouri_Mike said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're right, G5000.  I cannot speak for all immigrants but the immigrants coming from Mexico are very hard working people.   They come here for work to support their families _and _to send money back home to their parents, grandparents, cousins, those in need.  I would venture to say they have a better work ethic than most Americans do.  I have never met a Mexican person who wanted to collect welfare and stay at home!  Ever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't give a fuck how hard a worker someone is, if they sneaked in and they are here illegally, they should be sent right back where they came from !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While I agree that we should all abide by the laws of this land my point was to clarify that the Mexican people do not come here for a welfare check.  They are coming here for work and for a future.  I agree with the OP on point number 4.   Make citizenship easier.
> 
> To portray the Mexican people as lazy is grossly unfair.  They are a very hardworking, industrious people and desire to earn their own way rather than accept a hand out.   They are living under very stressful conditions and it is understandable they would want a safe place to live and a future for their families.  Don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think they are any more lazy than any other group, some are hard workers, some come here to have their offspring in order to be entitled to benefits.
> Regardless, they should show respect for our immigration laws. Millions have not, and in fact Mexicans are the #1 offenders.
> I would send every single one who is here illegally back if it were up to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've met people from Mexico and know firsthand that they are very hardworking people.  Whatever trade they are in?  They work harder than the rest do.  What I'd like for you to do is to think about how you would feel if you lived in a neighborhood where violence ruled the streets and you feared for the lives of your family members. Where your neighbors disappeared in broad daylight never to be seen again.  If you saw others crossing the border and lax laws on US immigration would you not at least try to get your family across the border?   Given the right set of circumstances?  I believe you would.  You see, you do not know what you would do unless you were confronted with such a predicament.  Have some compassion.   Do you have any idea how many Mexican people have settled for lower pay - even under the minimum wage in order to have the opportunity to live here?   They've been exploited by their own government, exploited by employers here in America and complain the least.  I believe in obeying the laws of the land but becoming a citizen should be made easier for these people. imo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How about they stand the hell up and fix their own country. It's not our problem Mexico is a shit hole. And we don't need to adjust our laws to accomodate them. If they want shit fixed just ask. Until then your citizens get to live under your rule as shitty as it is.
Click to expand...

 Mexico is in the top 10 of happiest countries on earth..


----------



## the_human_being

DigitalDrifter said:


> I've said for a long time, if we would penalize ALL employers with heavy fines, and jail time, most of the invasion would eventually end.



No one wants it fixed. Obamacare gives employers a $3,000.00 per employee incentive to hire illegal aliens. This loophole has been a part of Obamacare since it was passed. Congress and the President are aware of the loophole. No one has even attempted to correct it. What employer in his right mind is going to hire an American when he can save $3,000.00 a year by hiring an illegal?


----------



## the_human_being

Jeremiah said:


> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> First, I would like to thank you for putting a proposed solution on the table.
> 
> Second, I would like to point out that most immigrants, legal and illegal, come here to find work, not to live on welfare.  They come here to support their families.  They have the same dreams and hopes and aspirations as every other mother and father on the planet.
> 
> Third, immigrants are over-represented in entrepreneurial startups in America.  While a lot of immigrants "take jobs Americans don't want", many of them bring very valuable skills, and we should encourage that kind of immigration.  Those who are here on visas to attend our universities should be encouraged to stay after they graduate.  At the very least, they should be made to feel welcome while they are here so they go back to their home countries as goodwill ambassadors for America.
> 
> Fourth, you are going to get a lot of shit from some of the rabid dogs for number 4, but not from me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're right, G5000.  I cannot speak for all immigrants but the immigrants coming from Mexico are very hard working people.   They come here for work to support their families _and _to send money back home to their parents, grandparents, cousins, those in need.  I would venture to say they have a better work ethic than most Americans do.  I have never met a Mexican person who wanted to collect welfare and stay at home!  Ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't give a fuck how hard a worker someone is, if they sneaked in and they are here illegally, they should be sent right back where they came from !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While I agree that we should all abide by the laws of this land my point was to clarify that the Mexican people do not come here for a welfare check.  They are coming here for work and for a future.  I agree with the OP on point number 4.   Make citizenship easier.
> 
> To portray the Mexican people as lazy is grossly unfair.  They are a very hardworking, industrious people and desire to earn their own way rather than accept a hand out.   They are living under very stressful conditions and it is understandable they would want a safe place to live and a future for their families.  Don't you?
Click to expand...


I think they should get rid of the corruption within their own government. We need to work on that here as well.


----------



## Wildman

TNHarley said:


> *3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING*



 *NOTHING!!!*


----------



## Disir

TNHarley said:


> Disir said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 1. Prison + confiscation of business and/or property.
> 2.  Now explain how your going to enforce it and how your going to fund it.  There are states that have mandatory e-verify but have no apparatus in place to assure compliance.
> 'The poultry industry never stops': How E-Verify, immigration rules work in Big Chicken hiring
> 3. Can't do that.  I support no drivers licenses. You don't have a right to a drivers license.
> 4. No.  No immigration until the US takes care of it's own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1.  I like that. To be sold publically of course
> 2. Fund it with public dollars. When all of those people leave by choice, we would start saving money. I would bet almost immediately. That's when those fines and such could kick in. For landlords too. If we are going to do this, we have to do it RIGHT.
> 3. Why cant we?
> 4. It should be debated
Click to expand...




TNHarley said:


> Disir said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 1. Prison + confiscation of business and/or property.
> 2.  Now explain how your going to enforce it and how your going to fund it.  There are states that have mandatory e-verify but have no apparatus in place to assure compliance.
> 'The poultry industry never stops': How E-Verify, immigration rules work in Big Chicken hiring
> 3. Can't do that.  I support no drivers licenses. You don't have a right to a drivers license.
> 4. No.  No immigration until the US takes care of it's own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1.  I like that. To be sold publically of course
> 2. Fund it with public dollars. When all of those people leave by choice, we would start saving money. I would bet almost immediately. That's when those fines and such could kick in. For landlords too. If we are going to do this, we have to do it RIGHT.
> 3. Why cant we?
> 4. It should be debated
Click to expand...


2. The whole problem is in the enforcement or monitoring of compliance.   There is no auditing,  The *states *refuse to comply or create loopholes---not the federal government.   The states and local towns/cities can't manage to nail rental properties run by slumlords.  Lack of political will and lack of cash.  That's why it isn't mandatory and where it is mandatory it's conveniently ignored. It will have to come from public funding.Doesn't tell me how to force compliance.  
3. For education: Plyler v. Doe
For emergency medical care: They are often denied any medical care from their employers.  At this point you are nailing the powerless instead of those that hold the power.  Federal law prohibits any health care beyond emergency health care. Again, the funding comes from the *states *and local areas. Sometimes the owners of the companies also own the housing. 
Arizona Dream Act Coalition v. Brewer, 13-16248
4.  We can debate it.  The problem is that lots of people nationwide have no problem coming here legally and becoming citizens.


----------



## TNHarley

Disir said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disir said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 1. Prison + confiscation of business and/or property.
> 2.  Now explain how your going to enforce it and how your going to fund it.  There are states that have mandatory e-verify but have no apparatus in place to assure compliance.
> 'The poultry industry never stops': How E-Verify, immigration rules work in Big Chicken hiring
> 3. Can't do that.  I support no drivers licenses. You don't have a right to a drivers license.
> 4. No.  No immigration until the US takes care of it's own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1.  I like that. To be sold publically of course
> 2. Fund it with public dollars. When all of those people leave by choice, we would start saving money. I would bet almost immediately. That's when those fines and such could kick in. For landlords too. If we are going to do this, we have to do it RIGHT.
> 3. Why cant we?
> 4. It should be debated
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disir said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> 
> 1. Prison + confiscation of business and/or property.
> 2.  Now explain how your going to enforce it and how your going to fund it.  There are states that have mandatory e-verify but have no apparatus in place to assure compliance.
> 'The poultry industry never stops': How E-Verify, immigration rules work in Big Chicken hiring
> 3. Can't do that.  I support no drivers licenses. You don't have a right to a drivers license.
> 4. No.  No immigration until the US takes care of it's own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1.  I like that. To be sold publically of course
> 2. Fund it with public dollars. When all of those people leave by choice, we would start saving money. I would bet almost immediately. That's when those fines and such could kick in. For landlords too. If we are going to do this, we have to do it RIGHT.
> 3. Why cant we?
> 4. It should be debated
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 2. The whole problem is in the enforcement or monitoring of compliance.   There is no auditing,  The *states *refuse to comply or create loopholes---not the federal government.   The states and local towns/cities can't manage to nail rental properties run by slumlords.  Lack of political will and lack of cash.  That's why it isn't mandatory and where it is mandatory it's conveniently ignored. It will have to come from public funding.Doesn't tell me how to force compliance.
> 3. For education: Plyler v. Doe
> For emergency medical care: They are often denied any medical care from their employers.  At this point you are nailing the powerless instead of those that hold the power.  Federal law prohibits any health care beyond emergency health care. Again, the funding comes from the *states *and local areas. Sometimes the owners of the companies also own the housing.
> Arizona Dream Act Coalition v. Brewer, 13-16248
> 4.  We can debate it.  The problem is that lots of people nationwide have no problem coming here legally and becoming citizens.
Click to expand...

 It would need to become federal law with massive fines. And I liked what was said earlier. Confiscation
Illegals deserve nothing. We have to strip away the incentive.
Plyler vs Doe was based off the 14th correct? "all persons born or naturalized in the United States" How does that include illegals exactly?


----------



## Disir

TNHarley said:


> Disir said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disir said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 1. Prison + confiscation of business and/or property.
> 2.  Now explain how your going to enforce it and how your going to fund it.  There are states that have mandatory e-verify but have no apparatus in place to assure compliance.
> 'The poultry industry never stops': How E-Verify, immigration rules work in Big Chicken hiring
> 3. Can't do that.  I support no drivers licenses. You don't have a right to a drivers license.
> 4. No.  No immigration until the US takes care of it's own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1.  I like that. To be sold publically of course
> 2. Fund it with public dollars. When all of those people leave by choice, we would start saving money. I would bet almost immediately. That's when those fines and such could kick in. For landlords too. If we are going to do this, we have to do it RIGHT.
> 3. Why cant we?
> 4. It should be debated
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disir said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> 
> 1. Prison + confiscation of business and/or property.
> 2.  Now explain how your going to enforce it and how your going to fund it.  There are states that have mandatory e-verify but have no apparatus in place to assure compliance.
> 'The poultry industry never stops': How E-Verify, immigration rules work in Big Chicken hiring
> 3. Can't do that.  I support no drivers licenses. You don't have a right to a drivers license.
> 4. No.  No immigration until the US takes care of it's own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1.  I like that. To be sold publically of course
> 2. Fund it with public dollars. When all of those people leave by choice, we would start saving money. I would bet almost immediately. That's when those fines and such could kick in. For landlords too. If we are going to do this, we have to do it RIGHT.
> 3. Why cant we?
> 4. It should be debated
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 2. The whole problem is in the enforcement or monitoring of compliance.   There is no auditing,  The *states *refuse to comply or create loopholes---not the federal government.   The states and local towns/cities can't manage to nail rental properties run by slumlords.  Lack of political will and lack of cash.  That's why it isn't mandatory and where it is mandatory it's conveniently ignored. It will have to come from public funding.Doesn't tell me how to force compliance.
> 3. For education: Plyler v. Doe
> For emergency medical care: They are often denied any medical care from their employers.  At this point you are nailing the powerless instead of those that hold the power.  Federal law prohibits any health care beyond emergency health care. Again, the funding comes from the *states *and local areas. Sometimes the owners of the companies also own the housing.
> Arizona Dream Act Coalition v. Brewer, 13-16248
> 4.  We can debate it.  The problem is that lots of people nationwide have no problem coming here legally and becoming citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It would need to become federal law with massive fines. And I liked what was said earlier. Confiscation
> Illegals deserve nothing. We have to strip away the incentive.
> Plyler vs Doe was based off the 14th correct? "all persons born or naturalized in the United States" How does that include illegals exactly?
Click to expand...


This is the clause: _nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws_.

Massive fines are easily paid as we have seen already.  

The reason that it is not mandatory is a question of who pays.  States that have made it mandatory have refused to enforce it or refuse to develop any method of monitoring compliance.  As I like to call it...........they talk out of both sides of their mouths.


----------



## Delta4Embassy

TNHarley said:


> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise




Illegal immigration is less serious than a regulatory offense. If you're in some 3rd world hellhole in fear for your life and your family's life you're not taking much notice of international borders and laws pertaining to entry. Nor do you have the time, ability, or money to do it legally. Instead of treating illegals like we do violent criminals, outta be making the best of it and getting them legalized as with driver's licenses and all that. They're here anyway. Instead of letting them stay undocumented, get them documented and accountable. 

In the meantime though, genuine disincentive needs to be created so business isn't hiring them off-book for less than legal wages. It's like how we fight prostitution. Instead of focusing on the prostitutes, which doesn't work, focus on the johns/employers. Less inclination to hire illegals means less illegals. If it gets out companies that used to hire them aren't any more due to legal crackdowns and fines, illegals will go somewhere else or otherwise not enter illegally.


----------



## TNHarley

[


Disir said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disir said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disir said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 1. Prison + confiscation of business and/or property.
> 2.  Now explain how your going to enforce it and how your going to fund it.  There are states that have mandatory e-verify but have no apparatus in place to assure compliance.
> 'The poultry industry never stops': How E-Verify, immigration rules work in Big Chicken hiring
> 3. Can't do that.  I support no drivers licenses. You don't have a right to a drivers license.
> 4. No.  No immigration until the US takes care of it's own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1.  I like that. To be sold publically of course
> 2. Fund it with public dollars. When all of those people leave by choice, we would start saving money. I would bet almost immediately. That's when those fines and such could kick in. For landlords too. If we are going to do this, we have to do it RIGHT.
> 3. Why cant we?
> 4. It should be debated
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disir said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> 
> 1. Prison + confiscation of business and/or property.
> 2.  Now explain how your going to enforce it and how your going to fund it.  There are states that have mandatory e-verify but have no apparatus in place to assure compliance.
> 'The poultry industry never stops': How E-Verify, immigration rules work in Big Chicken hiring
> 3. Can't do that.  I support no drivers licenses. You don't have a right to a drivers license.
> 4. No.  No immigration until the US takes care of it's own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1.  I like that. To be sold publically of course
> 2. Fund it with public dollars. When all of those people leave by choice, we would start saving money. I would bet almost immediately. That's when those fines and such could kick in. For landlords too. If we are going to do this, we have to do it RIGHT.
> 3. Why cant we?
> 4. It should be debated
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 2. The whole problem is in the enforcement or monitoring of compliance.   There is no auditing,  The *states *refuse to comply or create loopholes---not the federal government.   The states and local towns/cities can't manage to nail rental properties run by slumlords.  Lack of political will and lack of cash.  That's why it isn't mandatory and where it is mandatory it's conveniently ignored. It will have to come from public funding.Doesn't tell me how to force compliance.
> 3. For education: Plyler v. Doe
> For emergency medical care: They are often denied any medical care from their employers.  At this point you are nailing the powerless instead of those that hold the power.  Federal law prohibits any health care beyond emergency health care. Again, the funding comes from the *states *and local areas. Sometimes the owners of the companies also own the housing.
> Arizona Dream Act Coalition v. Brewer, 13-16248
> 4.  We can debate it.  The problem is that lots of people nationwide have no problem coming here legally and becoming citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It would need to become federal law with massive fines. And I liked what was said earlier. Confiscation
> Illegals deserve nothing. We have to strip away the incentive.
> Plyler vs Doe was based off the 14th correct? "all persons born or naturalized in the United States" How does that include illegals exactly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is the clause: _nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws_.
> 
> Massive fines are easily paid as we have seen already.
> 
> The reason that it is not mandatory is a question of who pays.  States that have made it mandatory have refused to enforce it or refuse to develop any method of monitoring compliance.  As I like to call it...........they talk out of both sides of their mouths.
Click to expand...

 Section 1 is referring to citizens. That WHOLE section is. That is my argument.


----------



## TNHarley

Delta4Embassy said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal immigration is less serious than a regulatory offense. If you're in some 3rd world hellhole in fear for your life and your family's life you're not taking much notice of international borders and laws pertaining to entry. Nor do you have the time, ability, or money to do it legally. Instead of treating illegals like we do violent criminals, outta be making the best of it and getting them legalized as with driver's licenses and all that. They're here anyway. Instead of letting them stay undocumented, get them documented and accountable.
> 
> In the meantime though, genuine disincentive needs to be created so business isn't hiring them off-book for less than legal wages. It's like how we fight prostitution. Instead of focusing on the prostitutes, which doesn't work, focus on the johns/employers. Less inclination to hire illegals means less illegals. If it gets out companies that used to hire them aren't any more due to legal crackdowns and fines, illegals will go somewhere else or otherwise not enter illegally.
Click to expand...

 I agree with what you said accept for getting them documented. We shouldn't reward our laws being broken.
When they leave on their own, with our reformed immigrant processes, they will be welcomed back with open arms.


----------



## Delta4Embassy

TNHarley said:


> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal immigration is less serious than a regulatory offense. If you're in some 3rd world hellhole in fear for your life and your family's life you're not taking much notice of international borders and laws pertaining to entry. Nor do you have the time, ability, or money to do it legally. Instead of treating illegals like we do violent criminals, outta be making the best of it and getting them legalized as with driver's licenses and all that. They're here anyway. Instead of letting them stay undocumented, get them documented and accountable.
> 
> In the meantime though, genuine disincentive needs to be created so business isn't hiring them off-book for less than legal wages. It's like how we fight prostitution. Instead of focusing on the prostitutes, which doesn't work, focus on the johns/employers. Less inclination to hire illegals means less illegals. If it gets out companies that used to hire them aren't any more due to legal crackdowns and fines, illegals will go somewhere else or otherwise not enter illegally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree with what you said accept for getting them documented. We shouldn't reward our laws being broken.
> When they leave on their own, with our reformed immigrant processes, they will be welcomed back with open arms.
Click to expand...


Forcing them to leave is more expensive than it's worth and logistically impossible. Polish a turd and make em legal.


----------



## Disir

TNHarley said:


> [
> 
> 
> Disir said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disir said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disir said:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 1. Prison + confiscation of business and/or property.
> 2.  Now explain how your going to enforce it and how your going to fund it.  There are states that have mandatory e-verify but have no apparatus in place to assure compliance.
> 'The poultry industry never stops': How E-Verify, immigration rules work in Big Chicken hiring
> 3. Can't do that.  I support no drivers licenses. You don't have a right to a drivers license.
> 4. No.  No immigration until the US takes care of it's own.
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  I like that. To be sold publically of course
> 2. Fund it with public dollars. When all of those people leave by choice, we would start saving money. I would bet almost immediately. That's when those fines and such could kick in. For landlords too. If we are going to do this, we have to do it RIGHT.
> 3. Why cant we?
> 4. It should be debated
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disir said:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 1. Prison + confiscation of business and/or property.
> 2.  Now explain how your going to enforce it and how your going to fund it.  There are states that have mandatory e-verify but have no apparatus in place to assure compliance.
> 'The poultry industry never stops': How E-Verify, immigration rules work in Big Chicken hiring
> 3. Can't do that.  I support no drivers licenses. You don't have a right to a drivers license.
> 4. No.  No immigration until the US takes care of it's own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1.  I like that. To be sold publically of course
> 2. Fund it with public dollars. When all of those people leave by choice, we would start saving money. I would bet almost immediately. That's when those fines and such could kick in. For landlords too. If we are going to do this, we have to do it RIGHT.
> 3. Why cant we?
> 4. It should be debated
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 2. The whole problem is in the enforcement or monitoring of compliance.   There is no auditing,  The *states *refuse to comply or create loopholes---not the federal government.   The states and local towns/cities can't manage to nail rental properties run by slumlords.  Lack of political will and lack of cash.  That's why it isn't mandatory and where it is mandatory it's conveniently ignored. It will have to come from public funding.Doesn't tell me how to force compliance.
> 3. For education: Plyler v. Doe
> For emergency medical care: They are often denied any medical care from their employers.  At this point you are nailing the powerless instead of those that hold the power.  Federal law prohibits any health care beyond emergency health care. Again, the funding comes from the *states *and local areas. Sometimes the owners of the companies also own the housing.
> Arizona Dream Act Coalition v. Brewer, 13-16248
> 4.  We can debate it.  The problem is that lots of people nationwide have no problem coming here legally and becoming citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It would need to become federal law with massive fines. And I liked what was said earlier. Confiscation
> Illegals deserve nothing. We have to strip away the incentive.
> Plyler vs Doe was based off the 14th correct? "all persons born or naturalized in the United States" How does that include illegals exactly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is the clause: _nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws_.
> 
> Massive fines are easily paid as we have seen already.
> 
> The reason that it is not mandatory is a question of who pays.  States that have made it mandatory have refused to enforce it or refuse to develop any method of monitoring compliance.  As I like to call it...........they talk out of both sides of their mouths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Section 1 is referring to citizens. That WHOLE section is. That is my argument.
Click to expand...


That's nice but it's the clause that is the important part.


----------



## TNHarley

Delta4Embassy said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal immigration is less serious than a regulatory offense. If you're in some 3rd world hellhole in fear for your life and your family's life you're not taking much notice of international borders and laws pertaining to entry. Nor do you have the time, ability, or money to do it legally. Instead of treating illegals like we do violent criminals, outta be making the best of it and getting them legalized as with driver's licenses and all that. They're here anyway. Instead of letting them stay undocumented, get them documented and accountable.
> 
> In the meantime though, genuine disincentive needs to be created so business isn't hiring them off-book for less than legal wages. It's like how we fight prostitution. Instead of focusing on the prostitutes, which doesn't work, focus on the johns/employers. Less inclination to hire illegals means less illegals. If it gets out companies that used to hire them aren't any more due to legal crackdowns and fines, illegals will go somewhere else or otherwise not enter illegally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree with what you said accept for getting them documented. We shouldn't reward our laws being broken.
> When they leave on their own, with our reformed immigrant processes, they will be welcomed back with open arms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Forcing them to leave is more expensive than it's worth and logistically impossible. Polish a turd and make em legal.
Click to expand...

 They will forced out of their own survival. I did not mention deportation.


----------



## Timmy

Do u really want illegal kids running round the streets all day ?  That's trouble .

Better to have them in school.


----------



## Delta4Embassy

TNHarley said:


> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal immigration is less serious than a regulatory offense. If you're in some 3rd world hellhole in fear for your life and your family's life you're not taking much notice of international borders and laws pertaining to entry. Nor do you have the time, ability, or money to do it legally. Instead of treating illegals like we do violent criminals, outta be making the best of it and getting them legalized as with driver's licenses and all that. They're here anyway. Instead of letting them stay undocumented, get them documented and accountable.
> 
> In the meantime though, genuine disincentive needs to be created so business isn't hiring them off-book for less than legal wages. It's like how we fight prostitution. Instead of focusing on the prostitutes, which doesn't work, focus on the johns/employers. Less inclination to hire illegals means less illegals. If it gets out companies that used to hire them aren't any more due to legal crackdowns and fines, illegals will go somewhere else or otherwise not enter illegally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree with what you said accept for getting them documented. We shouldn't reward our laws being broken.
> When they leave on their own, with our reformed immigrant processes, they will be welcomed back with open arms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Forcing them to leave is more expensive than it's worth and logistically impossible. Polish a turd and make em legal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They will forced out of their own survival. I did not mention deportation.
Click to expand...


So what, put them in prison? That's even more expesnive. They're here now, if they're not already under arrest for some crime they're just working a job somewhere and not deserving of being treated like criminals proper. They're illegal entry "crime" was like having a hunting rifle's barrel a fraction of an inch too short.


----------



## TNHarley

Disir said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> 
> Disir said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disir said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  I like that. To be sold publically of course
> 2. Fund it with public dollars. When all of those people leave by choice, we would start saving money. I would bet almost immediately. That's when those fines and such could kick in. For landlords too. If we are going to do this, we have to do it RIGHT.
> 3. Why cant we?
> 4. It should be debated
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  I like that. To be sold publically of course
> 2. Fund it with public dollars. When all of those people leave by choice, we would start saving money. I would bet almost immediately. That's when those fines and such could kick in. For landlords too. If we are going to do this, we have to do it RIGHT.
> 3. Why cant we?
> 4. It should be debated
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 2. The whole problem is in the enforcement or monitoring of compliance.   There is no auditing,  The *states *refuse to comply or create loopholes---not the federal government.   The states and local towns/cities can't manage to nail rental properties run by slumlords.  Lack of political will and lack of cash.  That's why it isn't mandatory and where it is mandatory it's conveniently ignored. It will have to come from public funding.Doesn't tell me how to force compliance.
> 3. For education: Plyler v. Doe
> For emergency medical care: They are often denied any medical care from their employers.  At this point you are nailing the powerless instead of those that hold the power.  Federal law prohibits any health care beyond emergency health care. Again, the funding comes from the *states *and local areas. Sometimes the owners of the companies also own the housing.
> Arizona Dream Act Coalition v. Brewer, 13-16248
> 4.  We can debate it.  The problem is that lots of people nationwide have no problem coming here legally and becoming citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It would need to become federal law with massive fines. And I liked what was said earlier. Confiscation
> Illegals deserve nothing. We have to strip away the incentive.
> Plyler vs Doe was based off the 14th correct? "all persons born or naturalized in the United States" How does that include illegals exactly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is the clause: _nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws_.
> 
> Massive fines are easily paid as we have seen already.
> 
> The reason that it is not mandatory is a question of who pays.  States that have made it mandatory have refused to enforce it or refuse to develop any method of monitoring compliance.  As I like to call it...........they talk out of both sides of their mouths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Section 1 is referring to citizens. That WHOLE section is. That is my argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's nice but it's the clause that is the important part.
Click to expand...

 I think it could it is worthy of re-visitation considering the fundamental change(in a good way) for all AMERICANS. Because in that ruling you mentioned, "
"the illegal alien of today may well be the legal alien of tomorrow," * [n4]*  and that, without an education, these undocumented *[p208]*  children,
[a]lready disadvantaged as a result of poverty, lack of English-speaking ability, and undeniable racial prejudices, . . . will become permanently locked into the lowest socio-economic class."
I think I would have a case.


----------



## TNHarley

Delta4Embassy said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
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> Delta4Embassy said:
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> TNHarley said:
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> Delta4Embassy said:
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> TNHarley said:
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> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal immigration is less serious than a regulatory offense. If you're in some 3rd world hellhole in fear for your life and your family's life you're not taking much notice of international borders and laws pertaining to entry. Nor do you have the time, ability, or money to do it legally. Instead of treating illegals like we do violent criminals, outta be making the best of it and getting them legalized as with driver's licenses and all that. They're here anyway. Instead of letting them stay undocumented, get them documented and accountable.
> 
> In the meantime though, genuine disincentive needs to be created so business isn't hiring them off-book for less than legal wages. It's like how we fight prostitution. Instead of focusing on the prostitutes, which doesn't work, focus on the johns/employers. Less inclination to hire illegals means less illegals. If it gets out companies that used to hire them aren't any more due to legal crackdowns and fines, illegals will go somewhere else or otherwise not enter illegally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree with what you said accept for getting them documented. We shouldn't reward our laws being broken.
> When they leave on their own, with our reformed immigrant processes, they will be welcomed back with open arms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Forcing them to leave is more expensive than it's worth and logistically impossible. Polish a turd and make em legal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They will forced out of their own survival. I did not mention deportation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what, put them in prison? That's even more expesnive. They're here now, if they're not already under arrest for some crime they're just working a job somewhere and not deserving of being treated like criminals proper. They're illegal entry "crime" was like having a hunting rifle's barrel a fraction of an inch too short.
Click to expand...

 OMG dude. My plan would drive them to leave on their own merit. If they were living int he street, couldn't get a job, money food etc, they would leave. That si the whole reason for this. To fix our problems without breaking everyone(lol).


----------



## TNHarley

Timmy said:


> Do u really want illegal kids running round the streets all day ?  That's trouble .
> 
> Better to have them in school.


 You think when those parents leave on their own because they have no jobs, money or a roof over their heads they are just going to leave their children here?
'Do you think illegals are shitty parents or did you not comprehend my premise?


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## Disir

TNHarley said:


> Disir said:
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> Disir said:
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> TNHarley said:
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> Disir said:
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> 
> 2. The whole problem is in the enforcement or monitoring of compliance.   There is no auditing,  The *states *refuse to comply or create loopholes---not the federal government.   The states and local towns/cities can't manage to nail rental properties run by slumlords.  Lack of political will and lack of cash.  That's why it isn't mandatory and where it is mandatory it's conveniently ignored. It will have to come from public funding.Doesn't tell me how to force compliance.
> 3. For education: Plyler v. Doe
> For emergency medical care: They are often denied any medical care from their employers.  At this point you are nailing the powerless instead of those that hold the power.  Federal law prohibits any health care beyond emergency health care. Again, the funding comes from the *states *and local areas. Sometimes the owners of the companies also own the housing.
> Arizona Dream Act Coalition v. Brewer, 13-16248
> 4.  We can debate it.  The problem is that lots of people nationwide have no problem coming here legally and becoming citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> It would need to become federal law with massive fines. And I liked what was said earlier. Confiscation
> Illegals deserve nothing. We have to strip away the incentive.
> Plyler vs Doe was based off the 14th correct? "all persons born or naturalized in the United States" How does that include illegals exactly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is the clause: _nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws_.
> 
> Massive fines are easily paid as we have seen already.
> 
> The reason that it is not mandatory is a question of who pays.  States that have made it mandatory have refused to enforce it or refuse to develop any method of monitoring compliance.  As I like to call it...........they talk out of both sides of their mouths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Section 1 is referring to citizens. That WHOLE section is. That is my argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's nice but it's the clause that is the important part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it could it is worthy of re-visitation considering the fundamental change(in a good way) for all AMERICANS. Because in that ruling you mentioned, "
> "the illegal alien of today may well be the legal alien of tomorrow," * [n4]*  and that, without an education, these undocumented *[p208]*  children,
> [a]lready disadvantaged as a result of poverty, lack of English-speaking ability, and undeniable racial prejudices, . . . will become permanently locked into the lowest socio-economic class."
> I think I would have a case.
Click to expand...


You're faced with the same issue as the time of the ruling.  The state isn't trying to get rid of them.


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## TNHarley

Disir said:


> TNHarley said:
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> Disir said:
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> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> It would need to become federal law with massive fines. And I liked what was said earlier. Confiscation
> Illegals deserve nothing. We have to strip away the incentive.
> Plyler vs Doe was based off the 14th correct? "all persons born or naturalized in the United States" How does that include illegals exactly?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the clause: _nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws_.
> 
> Massive fines are easily paid as we have seen already.
> 
> The reason that it is not mandatory is a question of who pays.  States that have made it mandatory have refused to enforce it or refuse to develop any method of monitoring compliance.  As I like to call it...........they talk out of both sides of their mouths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Section 1 is referring to citizens. That WHOLE section is. That is my argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's nice but it's the clause that is the important part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it could it is worthy of re-visitation considering the fundamental change(in a good way) for all AMERICANS. Because in that ruling you mentioned, "
> "the illegal alien of today may well be the legal alien of tomorrow," * [n4]*  and that, without an education, these undocumented *[p208]*  children,
> [a]lready disadvantaged as a result of poverty, lack of English-speaking ability, and undeniable racial prejudices, . . . will become permanently locked into the lowest socio-economic class."
> I think I would have a case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're faced with the same issue as the time of the ruling.  The state isn't trying to get rid of them.
Click to expand...

 LOL A majority want something done about immigration. And entitlement isn't one of them.


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## Disir

TNHarley said:


> Disir said:
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> TNHarley said:
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> [
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> Disir said:
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> 
> This is the clause: _nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws_.
> 
> Massive fines are easily paid as we have seen already.
> 
> The reason that it is not mandatory is a question of who pays.  States that have made it mandatory have refused to enforce it or refuse to develop any method of monitoring compliance.  As I like to call it...........they talk out of both sides of their mouths.
> 
> 
> 
> Section 1 is referring to citizens. That WHOLE section is. That is my argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's nice but it's the clause that is the important part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it could it is worthy of re-visitation considering the fundamental change(in a good way) for all AMERICANS. Because in that ruling you mentioned, "
> "the illegal alien of today may well be the legal alien of tomorrow," * [n4]*  and that, without an education, these undocumented *[p208]*  children,
> [a]lready disadvantaged as a result of poverty, lack of English-speaking ability, and undeniable racial prejudices, . . . will become permanently locked into the lowest socio-economic class."
> I think I would have a case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're faced with the same issue as the time of the ruling.  The state isn't trying to get rid of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LOL A majority want something done about immigration. And entitlement isn't one of them.
Click to expand...


LOL.  That doesn't change anything.  You can't just do anything.  That's how you wind up with what we have now.  It's like e-verify. Make it mandatory and that sounds good and then make sure that there is no enforcement.  You can't just say a lot of us agree there is a problem. You have to tango with the jackasses that are hiring them.  Like now.  Because they are buying the no enforcement.  And every damn time a group seeks to demonize those with the least amount of power............you allow a bunch of other folks to team up with those that are buying the no enforcement.  So, thats the undocumented workers and whatever nationality that is here legally, Wallstreet, and politicians and everyone that wants to defend the undocumented workers because they feel bad or they profit from it.  See what I'm saying here?


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## Missouri_Mike

TNHarley said:


> Missouri_Mike said:
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> Jeremiah said:
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> DigitalDrifter said:
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> DigitalDrifter said:
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> I don't give a fuck how hard a worker someone is, if they sneaked in and they are here illegally, they should be sent right back where they came from !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I agree that we should all abide by the laws of this land my point was to clarify that the Mexican people do not come here for a welfare check.  They are coming here for work and for a future.  I agree with the OP on point number 4.   Make citizenship easier.
> 
> To portray the Mexican people as lazy is grossly unfair.  They are a very hardworking, industrious people and desire to earn their own way rather than accept a hand out.   They are living under very stressful conditions and it is understandable they would want a safe place to live and a future for their families.  Don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think they are any more lazy than any other group, some are hard workers, some come here to have their offspring in order to be entitled to benefits.
> Regardless, they should show respect for our immigration laws. Millions have not, and in fact Mexicans are the #1 offenders.
> I would send every single one who is here illegally back if it were up to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've met people from Mexico and know firsthand that they are very hardworking people.  Whatever trade they are in?  They work harder than the rest do.  What I'd like for you to do is to think about how you would feel if you lived in a neighborhood where violence ruled the streets and you feared for the lives of your family members. Where your neighbors disappeared in broad daylight never to be seen again.  If you saw others crossing the border and lax laws on US immigration would you not at least try to get your family across the border?   Given the right set of circumstances?  I believe you would.  You see, you do not know what you would do unless you were confronted with such a predicament.  Have some compassion.   Do you have any idea how many Mexican people have settled for lower pay - even under the minimum wage in order to have the opportunity to live here?   They've been exploited by their own government, exploited by employers here in America and complain the least.  I believe in obeying the laws of the land but becoming a citizen should be made easier for these people. imo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How about they stand the hell up and fix their own country. It's not our problem Mexico is a shit hole. And we don't need to adjust our laws to accomodate them. If they want shit fixed just ask. Until then your citizens get to live under your rule as shitty as it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mexico is in the top 10 of happiest countries on earth..
Click to expand...

Apparently you've never been there. That poverty isn't happiness. And if it was why would they all like to move here?


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## TNHarley

Missouri_Mike said:


> TNHarley said:
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> Missouri_Mike said:
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> Jeremiah said:
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> DigitalDrifter said:
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> Jeremiah said:
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> 
> 
> While I agree that we should all abide by the laws of this land my point was to clarify that the Mexican people do not come here for a welfare check.  They are coming here for work and for a future.  I agree with the OP on point number 4.   Make citizenship easier.
> 
> To portray the Mexican people as lazy is grossly unfair.  They are a very hardworking, industrious people and desire to earn their own way rather than accept a hand out.   They are living under very stressful conditions and it is understandable they would want a safe place to live and a future for their families.  Don't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think they are any more lazy than any other group, some are hard workers, some come here to have their offspring in order to be entitled to benefits.
> Regardless, they should show respect for our immigration laws. Millions have not, and in fact Mexicans are the #1 offenders.
> I would send every single one who is here illegally back if it were up to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've met people from Mexico and know firsthand that they are very hardworking people.  Whatever trade they are in?  They work harder than the rest do.  What I'd like for you to do is to think about how you would feel if you lived in a neighborhood where violence ruled the streets and you feared for the lives of your family members. Where your neighbors disappeared in broad daylight never to be seen again.  If you saw others crossing the border and lax laws on US immigration would you not at least try to get your family across the border?   Given the right set of circumstances?  I believe you would.  You see, you do not know what you would do unless you were confronted with such a predicament.  Have some compassion.   Do you have any idea how many Mexican people have settled for lower pay - even under the minimum wage in order to have the opportunity to live here?   They've been exploited by their own government, exploited by employers here in America and complain the least.  I believe in obeying the laws of the land but becoming a citizen should be made easier for these people. imo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How about they stand the hell up and fix their own country. It's not our problem Mexico is a shit hole. And we don't need to adjust our laws to accomodate them. If they want shit fixed just ask. Until then your citizens get to live under your rule as shitty as it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mexico is in the top 10 of happiest countries on earth..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Apparently you've never been there. That poverty isn't happiness. And if it was why would they all like to move here?
Click to expand...

 I am not the one who did the ranking


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## Missouri_Mike

TNHarley said:


> Missouri_Mike said:
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> TNHarley said:
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> Missouri_Mike said:
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> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think they are any more lazy than any other group, some are hard workers, some come here to have their offspring in order to be entitled to benefits.
> Regardless, they should show respect for our immigration laws. Millions have not, and in fact Mexicans are the #1 offenders.
> I would send every single one who is here illegally back if it were up to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've met people from Mexico and know firsthand that they are very hardworking people.  Whatever trade they are in?  They work harder than the rest do.  What I'd like for you to do is to think about how you would feel if you lived in a neighborhood where violence ruled the streets and you feared for the lives of your family members. Where your neighbors disappeared in broad daylight never to be seen again.  If you saw others crossing the border and lax laws on US immigration would you not at least try to get your family across the border?   Given the right set of circumstances?  I believe you would.  You see, you do not know what you would do unless you were confronted with such a predicament.  Have some compassion.   Do you have any idea how many Mexican people have settled for lower pay - even under the minimum wage in order to have the opportunity to live here?   They've been exploited by their own government, exploited by employers here in America and complain the least.  I believe in obeying the laws of the land but becoming a citizen should be made easier for these people. imo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How about they stand the hell up and fix their own country. It's not our problem Mexico is a shit hole. And we don't need to adjust our laws to accomodate them. If they want shit fixed just ask. Until then your citizens get to live under your rule as shitty as it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mexico is in the top 10 of happiest countries on earth..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Apparently you've never been there. That poverty isn't happiness. And if it was why would they all like to move here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not the one who did the ranking
Click to expand...

Gotcha, Only a fool would think that is a happy country economically speaking. It's straight up poverty.


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## TNHarley

Missouri_Mike said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Missouri_Mike said:
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> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Missouri_Mike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've met people from Mexico and know firsthand that they are very hardworking people.  Whatever trade they are in?  They work harder than the rest do.  What I'd like for you to do is to think about how you would feel if you lived in a neighborhood where violence ruled the streets and you feared for the lives of your family members. Where your neighbors disappeared in broad daylight never to be seen again.  If you saw others crossing the border and lax laws on US immigration would you not at least try to get your family across the border?   Given the right set of circumstances?  I believe you would.  You see, you do not know what you would do unless you were confronted with such a predicament.  Have some compassion.   Do you have any idea how many Mexican people have settled for lower pay - even under the minimum wage in order to have the opportunity to live here?   They've been exploited by their own government, exploited by employers here in America and complain the least.  I believe in obeying the laws of the land but becoming a citizen should be made easier for these people. imo.
> 
> 
> 
> How about they stand the hell up and fix their own country. It's not our problem Mexico is a shit hole. And we don't need to adjust our laws to accomodate them. If they want shit fixed just ask. Until then your citizens get to live under your rule as shitty as it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mexico is in the top 10 of happiest countries on earth..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Apparently you've never been there. That poverty isn't happiness. And if it was why would they all like to move here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not the one who did the ranking
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Gotcha, Only a fool would think that is a happy country economically speaking. It's straight up poverty.
Click to expand...

 
Mexico is quickly becoming an emerging market heavy-weight. Its economic output, as measured by Gross Domestic Product (GDP) was $2.143 trillion in 2014. This was much less than its primary trading partner, the United States ($17.46 trillion) but larger than its other NAFTA partner, Canada ($1.579 trillion). Mexico's geographic size is equivalent to Saudi Arabia, but supports five times as many people while exporting 1/4 of the oil.
Mexico's 2014 GDP growth rate was 2.4%, better than the 1.1% rate in 2013, but slower than the $% rate in 2012. Its standard of living, as measured by GDP per capita, was $17,900, less than half that of its other NAFTA partners. (Source: CIA Factbook)
More Americans Immigrate to Mexico Than Vice Versa


----------



## TNHarley

What aren't ANY of the candidates proposing anything like this that would actually HELP the problem?


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## Lonestar_logic

bendog said:


> 3's unconstitutional, but other than that I could be ok with it.



Where in the Constitution are you guaranteed a driver's license, schooling and healthcare?


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## TNHarley

I felt compelled to add NO Syrian refugees to this


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## Freewill

bendog said:


> 3's unconstitutional, but other than that I could be ok with it.



Why is number 3 unconstitutional for non US citizens?  The COTUS does not apply throughout the world, too bad.  I wouldn't apply 3 for humanitarian reasons but not the COTUS.


----------



## TNHarley

Freewill said:


> I wouldn't apply 3 for humanitarian reasons


 That's fair enough.
Wouldn't one think that fixing things aren't always the _easiest_ to do? I mean, why do WE always have to be the "humanitarian" ones? No one else is..


----------



## Freewill

TNHarley said:


> Freewill said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't apply 3 for humanitarian reasons
> 
> 
> 
> That's fair enough.
> Wouldn't one think that fixing things aren't always the _easiest_ to do? I mean, why do WE always have to be the "humanitarian" ones? No one else is..
Click to expand...


Yes, yes we do, it is who we are.  We don't want the final result to be, we are like them.


----------



## TNHarley

Freewill said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Freewill said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't apply 3 for humanitarian reasons
> 
> 
> 
> That's fair enough.
> Wouldn't one think that fixing things aren't always the _easiest_ to do? I mean, why do WE always have to be the "humanitarian" ones? No one else is..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, yes we do, it is who we are.  We don't want the final result to be, we are like them.
Click to expand...

 That's a very good point.
But we also see what "exceptionalism" got us..


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## Divine Wind

bendog said:


> 3's unconstitutional, but other than that I could be ok with it.


How is it unconstitutional to deny illegal immigrants taxpayer funding.....other than a bus ticket home?


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## Divine Wind

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> "TNHarleys solution to the immigration problem"
> 
> There is no immigration 'problem.'
> 
> Thousands of immigrants come to the United States legally; the OP must have meant _*undocumented*_ immigrants – a telling slip, as it comes as no surprise that many on the right are hostile to all immigrants, whether here legally or not.
> 
> And that the OP is unaware that item 3 is un-Constitutional also comes as no surprise, as such ignorance of the law is likewise common to many on the right.


Semantics.  Obviously legal immigrants are not a problem.  In fact, it's obvious from TNHarley 's post that he was addressing illegals, not legal resident, legal immigrants, those on a work visa, etc. 


TNHarley said:


> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise


----------



## TNHarley

Divine.Wind said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> "TNHarleys solution to the immigration problem"
> 
> There is no immigration 'problem.'
> 
> Thousands of immigrants come to the United States legally; the OP must have meant _*undocumented*_ immigrants – a telling slip, as it comes as no surprise that many on the right are hostile to all immigrants, whether here legally or not.
> 
> And that the OP is unaware that item 3 is un-Constitutional also comes as no surprise, as such ignorance of the law is likewise common to many on the right.
> 
> 
> 
> Semantics.  Obviously legal immigrants are not a problem.  In fact, it's obvious from TNHarley 's post that he was addressing illegals, not legal resident, legal immigrants, those on a work visa, etc.
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

 Indeed. Immigrants are a backbone to this country. That's why I want to make it easier to become a citizen.


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## Divine Wind

TNHarley said:


> Indeed. Immigrants are a backbone to this country. That's why I want to make it easier to become a citizen.


Agreed.   I think part of the problem is that some big monied interests are making too much money off the status quo.


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## TNHarley

Divine.Wind said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. Immigrants are a backbone to this country. That's why I want to make it easier to become a citizen.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.   I think part of the problem is that some big monied interests are making too much money off the status quo.
Click to expand...

 Yes.
Even our republicans who are "against" it are the ones that LOVE amnesty. I would figure globalists and the "labor camps" have something to do with it. Like the Chamber of Commerce.
I will say that open borders goes hand in hand with free markets. I believe it was ricardo that implied that it would never be fully successful without labor mobility.
Just thinking out loud..


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## Divine Wind

TNHarley said:


> Yes.
> Even our republicans who are "against" it are the ones that LOVE amnesty. I would figure globalists and the "labor camps" have something to do with it. Like the Chamber of Commerce.
> I will say that open borders goes hand in hand with free markets. I believe it was ricardo that implied that it would never be fully successful without labor mobility.
> Just thinking out loud..


As someone who has to cross the border several times a year, I disagree with the "open borders" assertion.  Although I will readily agree that we do need immigration reform and a workable solution to illegal immigration.


----------



## SwimExpert

TNHarley said:


> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise



I don't agree with making citizenship easier.  However, your plan is far superior to anything else I've seen out there.


----------



## TNHarley

SwimExpert said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't agree with making citizenship easier.  However, your plan is far superior to anything else I've seen out there.
Click to expand...

 I think that is perfectly reasonable.


----------



## Divine Wind

SwimExpert said:


> I don't agree with making citizenship easier.  However, your plan is far superior to anything else I've seen out there.


How about changing "citizenship" to "legal resident"?  IOW Green Card.


----------



## SwimExpert

Divine.Wind said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't agree with making citizenship easier.  However, your plan is far superior to anything else I've seen out there.
> 
> 
> 
> How about changing "citizenship" to "legal resident"?  IOW Green Card.
Click to expand...


No.  I prefer less, and more carefully tailored immigration.


----------



## Divine Wind

SwimExpert said:


> No.  I prefer less, and more carefully tailored immigration.


Why?  Immigration has been a backbone of growth and prosperity in the US for centuries.  Do you think we're full?


----------



## SwimExpert

Divine.Wind said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.  I prefer less, and more carefully tailored immigration.
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  Immigration has been a backbone of growth and prosperity in the US for centuries.
Click to expand...


Yeah, so was slavery.  Things change.


----------



## dblack

TNHarley said:


> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers


Does this include hiring people to clean your house or do yard work? What about paying someone to cook you tacos (ie the ubiquitous taco truck)?


> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters


Who pays for this? Are there also massive fines for skipping this?



> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING


Does this include police protection?


> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..


Agreed.


----------



## Divine Wind

SwimExpert said:


> Yeah, so was slavery.  Things change.


LOL   Nice straw man.  

The fact remains immigration has been a mainstay of American growth.  While we need to fix the illegal immigration problem once and for all, we also need immigration reform.


----------



## Divine Wind

dblack said:


> Does this include hiring people to clean your house or do yard work? What about paying someone to cook you tacos (ie the ubiquitous taco truck)?


Most of those workers are part of a service....you know, like Mitt Romney used.  

As for taco trucks, aren't they supposed to be licensed?  Do you really care what's in those tacos or worry about sanitation standards of food dispensers?


----------



## TNHarley

dblack said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 
> 
> 
> Does this include hiring people to clean your house or do yard work? What about paying someone to cook you tacos (ie the ubiquitous taco truck)?
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters[/quarters]
> Who pays for this? Are there also massive fines for skipping this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does this include police protection?
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

No. We cant make every American use e-verify. That just isn't plausible.
But it is worthy of mentioning!


----------



## dblack

TNHarley said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 
> 
> 
> Does this include hiring people to clean your house or do yard work? What about paying someone to cook you tacos (ie the ubiquitous taco truck)?
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters[/quarters]
> Who pays for this? Are there also massive fines for skipping this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does this include police protection?
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. We cant make every American use e-verify. That just isn't plausible.
> But it is worthy of mentioning!
Click to expand...


Then what are you suggesting? Who has to e-verify?


----------



## dblack

Divine.Wind said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does this include hiring people to clean your house or do yard work? What about paying someone to cook you tacos (ie the ubiquitous taco truck)?
> 
> 
> 
> Most of those workers are part of a service....you know, like Mitt Romney used.
> 
> As for taco trucks, aren't they supposed to be licensed?
Click to expand...


I suppose so. How do you know if they're licensed or not?


----------



## hazlnut

TNHarley said:


> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise




3 has been tried, even in California and thrown out by all courts everywhere.


Fine employers - good idea.


----------



## TNHarley

dblack said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 
> 
> 
> Does this include hiring people to clean your house or do yard work? What about paying someone to cook you tacos (ie the ubiquitous taco truck)?
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters[/quarters]
> Who pays for this? Are there also massive fines for skipping this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does this include police protection?
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. We cant make every American use e-verify. That just isn't plausible.
> But it is worthy of mentioning!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then what are you suggesting? Who has to e-verify?
Click to expand...

 Employers.
Diving into semantics wont get us anywhere.


----------



## SwimExpert

Divine.Wind said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, so was slavery.  Things change.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL   Nice straw man.
> 
> The fact remains immigration has been a mainstay of American growth.  While we need to fix the illegal immigration problem once and for all, we also need immigration reform.
Click to expand...


It's not a straw man.  You need to educate yourself before you use terms in ways where they don't apply and actually make no sense whatsoever.  A straw man is when someone tears down an argument that they themselves created.  That is not the same thing as a comparative argument, where the same logical structure is employed while substituting differing face, so as to reveal the flaws of the logical structure.

After you re-read the chapter on validity be sure to complete the assignment on informal fallacies before you take the online test.  If the system does not have your completed assignments on file before you take the test you will be scored a zero, and you will not be given the opportunity to for make-up tests.


----------



## dblack

TNHarley said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 
> 
> 
> Does this include hiring people to clean your house or do yard work? What about paying someone to cook you tacos (ie the ubiquitous taco truck)?
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters[/quarters]
> Who pays for this? Are there also massive fines for skipping this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does this include police protection?
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. We cant make every American use e-verify. That just isn't plausible.
> But it is worthy of mentioning!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then what are you suggesting? Who has to e-verify?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Employers.
> Diving into semantics wont get us anywhere.
Click to expand...


It's not semantics. These are very real concerns, that will impact real people. Most of you who are eager to 'get tough' on immigration haven't really considered the kind of police state that will be required.


----------



## SwimExpert

dblack said:


> It's not semantics.



You are conflating _employing_ someone with _buying_ something from a business they are operating.  If you aren't playing semantics, you're being a fucking idiot.


----------



## TNHarley

dblack said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 
> 
> 
> Does this include hiring people to clean your house or do yard work? What about paying someone to cook you tacos (ie the ubiquitous taco truck)?
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters[/quarters]
> Who pays for this? Are there also massive fines for skipping this?
> 
> Does this include police protection?
> Agreed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. We cant make every American use e-verify. That just isn't plausible.
> But it is worthy of mentioning!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then what are you suggesting? Who has to e-verify?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Employers.
> Diving into semantics wont get us anywhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not semantics. These are very real concerns, that will impact real people. Most of you who are eager to 'get tough' on immigration haven't really considered the kind of police state that will be required.
Click to expand...

 Forcing employers to use e-verify? lol
Sorry, I just cant follow that reasoning.


----------



## Divine Wind

dblack said:


> I suppose so. How do you know if they're licensed or not?


Isn't that the job of the health department?


----------



## dblack

SwimExpert said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not semantics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are conflating _employing_ someone with _buying_ something from a business they are operating.  If you aren't playing semantics, you're being a fucking idiot.
Click to expand...


Not at all. The two aren't as easily distinguished as you might imagine. And they're no different in principle. Is paying someone to mow your lawn "employing" them, or buying something from a business?


----------



## dblack

TNHarley said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does this include hiring people to clean your house or do yard work? What about paying someone to cook you tacos (ie the ubiquitous taco truck)?
> 
> 
> 
> No. We cant make every American use e-verify. That just isn't plausible.
> But it is worthy of mentioning!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then what are you suggesting? Who has to e-verify?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Employers.
> Diving into semantics wont get us anywhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not semantics. These are very real concerns, that will impact real people. Most of you who are eager to 'get tough' on immigration haven't really considered the kind of police state that will be required.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Forcing employers to use e-verify? lol
> Sorry, I just cant follow that reasoning.
Click to expand...


I'm not surprised. But you should. Reasoning is required for wise decision making.


----------



## dblack

Divine.Wind said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose so. How do you know if they're licensed or not?
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't that the job of the health department?
Click to expand...


Do you ask for health department credentials from every food vendor you patronize? What if they are faking their documents?


----------



## Divine Wind

dblack said:


> Then what are you suggesting? Who has to e-verify?


Left wingers want every father to get a background check on his child before giving them a single-shot .22 rifle for Christmas.  If they can make that proposal work, why not have e-verify for every employer?


----------



## Divine Wind

dblack said:


> Do you asked for health department credentials from every food vendor you patronize? What if they are faking their documents?


So you believe restaurants, bars & grills, hot dog vendors and all other sellers of food should be unregulated?  Interesting.

If I'm wrong, why are you drawing a distinction for taco trucks/stands?


----------



## dblack

Divine.Wind said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then what are you suggesting? Who has to e-verify?
> 
> 
> 
> Left wingers want every father to get a background check on his child before giving them a single-shot .22 rifle for Christmas.  If they can make that proposal work, why not have e-verify for every employer?
Click to expand...


If you want to follow the lead of left-wingers, you could certainly do that. But isn't it overbearing government in both cases?


----------



## TNHarley

dblack said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> No. We cant make every American use e-verify. That just isn't plausible.
> But it is worthy of mentioning!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then what are you suggesting? Who has to e-verify?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Employers.
> Diving into semantics wont get us anywhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not semantics. These are very real concerns, that will impact real people. Most of you who are eager to 'get tough' on immigration haven't really considered the kind of police state that will be required.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Forcing employers to use e-verify? lol
> Sorry, I just cant follow that reasoning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not surprised. But you should. Reasoning is required for wise decision making.
Click to expand...

 Lol absolutely. But you are grasping at straws. There is a difference.


----------



## dblack

Divine.Wind said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you asked for health department credentials from every food vendor you patronize? What if they are faking their documents?
> 
> 
> 
> So you believe restaurants, bars & grills, hot dog vendors and all other sellers of food should be unregulated?  Interesting.
> 
> If I'm wrong, why are you drawing a distinction for taco trucks/stands?
Click to expand...


Well, they should either all be regulated, or all not. But that's not really the issue. You're insisting that employers function as immigration officers. I'm asking why consumers shouldn't be tasked with the same responsibility. If employers have to perform intensive investigations on everyone they hire, why should consumers who buy goods and services from people the don't know?


----------



## Divine Wind

dblack said:


> If you want to follow the lead of left-wingers, you could certainly do that. But isn't it overbearing government in both cases?


A good point.  Will you be voting Libertarian this election or will you be voting Democrat?  Neither?


----------



## dblack

TNHarley said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then what are you suggesting? Who has to e-verify?
> 
> 
> 
> Employers.
> Diving into semantics wont get us anywhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not semantics. These are very real concerns, that will impact real people. Most of you who are eager to 'get tough' on immigration haven't really considered the kind of police state that will be required.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Forcing employers to use e-verify? lol
> Sorry, I just cant follow that reasoning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not surprised. But you should. Reasoning is required for wise decision making.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol absolutely. But you are grasping at straws. There is a difference.
Click to expand...


Are you denying that innocent people will get tangled up in the kind of enforcement effort you're advocating?


----------



## Picaro

TNHarley said:


> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise



There has always been a solution available, it's just that all the big 'anti-racist' criminal illegal alien fans prefer not taking responsibility for their own political positions. Sponsorship has always been available, is relatively quick, and there are 10's of millions of pro-immigration people to sponsor every single one of them and then some, so have at it, you're in luck! Visit the INS web site to find out how right this minute! 

We're all looking forward to seeing the cute 'family pics all you pro-illegal alien fans will be posting soon and hearing how wonderful and noble you feel for being such a progressive and feeling human.


----------



## SwimExpert

dblack said:


> The two aren't as easily distinguished as you might imagine



In fact the are.  You're just a fucking idiot.


----------



## Divine Wind

dblack said:


> *Well, they should either all be regulated, or all not. *But that's not really the issue. You're insisting that employers function as immigration officers. I'm asking why consumers shouldn't be tasked with the same responsibility. If employers have to perform intensive investigations on everyone they hire, why should consumers who buy goods and services from people the don't know?


That's my point.  Everyone else is regulated by health officials, so why are you saying taco trucks should not be held to the same standard? 



dblack said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does this include hiring people to clean your house or do yard work? What about paying someone to cook you tacos (ie the ubiquitous taco truck)?
> 
> 
> 
> Most of those workers are part of a service....you know, like Mitt Romney used.
> 
> As for taco trucks, aren't they supposed to be licensed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suppose so. How do you know if they're licensed or not?
Click to expand...


----------



## TNHarley

dblack said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> Employers.
> Diving into semantics wont get us anywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not semantics. These are very real concerns, that will impact real people. Most of you who are eager to 'get tough' on immigration haven't really considered the kind of police state that will be required.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Forcing employers to use e-verify? lol
> Sorry, I just cant follow that reasoning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not surprised. But you should. Reasoning is required for wise decision making.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol absolutely. But you are grasping at straws. There is a difference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you denying that innocent people will get tangled up in the kind of enforcement effort you're advocating?
Click to expand...

 You mean making employers use e-verify? lol
I guess its possible, but that's a possibility with EVERYTHING.
Look black, nobody wants the elderly couple down the street to check the immigration status of their 10 year old neighbor to rake leaves. That's ridiculous.


----------



## dblack

Divine.Wind said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to follow the lead of left-wingers, you could certainly do that. But isn't it overbearing government in both cases?
> 
> 
> 
> A good point.  Will you be voting Libertarian this election or will you be voting Democrat?  Neither?
Click to expand...


I pretty much always vote Libertarian. I've never voted Democrat. Voted Republican - once, for Reagan in his first term. Regretted it.


----------



## TNHarley

Picaro said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There has always been a solution available, it's just that all the big 'anti-racist' criminal illegal alien fans prefer not taking responsibility for their own political positions. Sponsorship has always been available, is relatively quick, and there are 10's of millions of pro-immigration people to sponsor every single one of them and then some, so have at it, you're in luck! Visit the INS web site to find out how right this minute!
> 
> We're all looking forward to seeing the cute 'family pics all you pro-illegal alien fans will be posting soon and hearing how wonderful and noble you feel for being such a progressive and feeling human.
Click to expand...


----------



## dblack

Divine.Wind said:


> That's my point.  Everyone else is regulated by health officials, so why are you saying taco trucks should not be held to the same standard?



I'm not saying that.


----------



## Divine Wind

dblack said:


> Are you denying that innocent people will get tangled up in the kind of enforcement effort you're advocating?


Tangled up how?  They don't have a birth certificate, government ID, voter registration card or other proof of legal residency?  How often does that come up?  I'm good with providing a means for those few people who have none of the above to verify citizenship or residency status.


----------



## Divine Wind

dblack said:


> Not at all. The two aren't as easily distinguished as you might imagine. And they're no different in principle. Is paying someone to mow your lawn "employing" them, or buying something from a business?


Let's start big and work small.  Obviously E-verifying the kid next door to mow your lawn or babysit your kid is "small".  Let's start with businesses and employers of  5-10 or more people.  If that works, then we can update the system later.


----------



## dblack

TNHarley said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not semantics. These are very real concerns, that will impact real people. Most of you who are eager to 'get tough' on immigration haven't really considered the kind of police state that will be required.
> 
> 
> 
> Forcing employers to use e-verify? lol
> Sorry, I just cant follow that reasoning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not surprised. But you should. Reasoning is required for wise decision making.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol absolutely. But you are grasping at straws. There is a difference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you denying that innocent people will get tangled up in the kind of enforcement effort you're advocating?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You mean making employers use e-verify? lol
> I guess its possible, but that's a possibility with EVERYTHING.
> Look black, nobody wants the elderly couple down the street to check the immigration status of their 10 year old neighbor to rake leaves. That's ridiculous.
Click to expand...


The sad thing is, the people most likely to get burned by this kind of police state shit are small start-ups who don't have the funds to perform comprehensive investigations on everyone they hire. No doubt the larger companies they are competing against will support your proposal.


----------



## Divine Wind

dblack said:


> I'm not saying that.


Actually, as I quoted, you did say that.


----------



## dblack

Divine.Wind said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you denying that innocent people will get tangled up in the kind of enforcement effort you're advocating?
> 
> 
> 
> Tangled up how?  They don't have a birth certificate, government ID, voter registration card or other proof of legal residency?  How often does that come up?
Click to expand...


It comes up quite often. Especially among the poor, and people who aren't compulsively documenting their lives to placate government.


----------



## dblack

Divine.Wind said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not saying that.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, as I quoted, you did say that.
Click to expand...


You're mistaken. Or lying. Read again.


----------



## Divine Wind

dblack said:


> The sad thing is, the people most likely to get burned by this kind of police state shit are small start-ups who don't have the funds to perform comprehensive investigations on everyone they hire. No doubt the larger companies they are competing against will support your proposal.


Bullshit.  My wife used E-verify in her work at a temp employment agency.  It's not a big deal.  What's a big deal is requiring it.

For Employers


----------



## Divine Wind

dblack said:


> You're mistaken. Or lying. Read again.


You're dodging or lying.  Read again.


----------



## Divine Wind

dblack said:


> It comes up quite often. Especially among the poor, and people who aren't compulsively documented their lives to placate government.


Please provide some factual data or percentages.  Saying "quite often", "a lot", "many" and the like is just a smoke screen.

Why are you so anxious to protect illegals?  Do you have a business that uses them?


----------



## TNHarley

dblack said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> Forcing employers to use e-verify? lol
> Sorry, I just cant follow that reasoning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not surprised. But you should. Reasoning is required for wise decision making.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol absolutely. But you are grasping at straws. There is a difference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you denying that innocent people will get tangled up in the kind of enforcement effort you're advocating?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You mean making employers use e-verify? lol
> I guess its possible, but that's a possibility with EVERYTHING.
> Look black, nobody wants the elderly couple down the street to check the immigration status of their 10 year old neighbor to rake leaves. That's ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The sad thing is, the people most likely to get burned by this kind of police state shit are small start-ups who don't have the funds to perform comprehensive investigations on everyone they hire. No doubt the larger companies they are competing against will support your proposal.
Click to expand...

 Isnt e-verify internet based?
I wouldn't think larger companies are the actual problem.. At least for the most part.


----------



## dblack

edessxdqc


Divine.Wind said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're mistaken. Or lying. Read again.
> 
> 
> 
> You're dodging or lying.  Read again.
Click to expand...


I said all business should be held to the same standard. Here's the quote: 



> ...  they should either all be regulated, or all not.




The exact opposite of your asinine accusation.


----------



## dblack

Divine.Wind said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> It comes up quite often. Especially among the poor, and people who aren't compulsively documented their lives to placate government.
> 
> 
> 
> Please provide some factual data or percentages.  Saying "quite often", "a lot", "many" and the like is just a smoke screen.
> 
> Why are you so anxious to protect illegals?  Do you have a business that uses them?
Click to expand...


I'm anxious to protect everyone who doesn't live their lives sucking up to authoritarian government.


----------



## dblack

TNHarley said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not surprised. But you should. Reasoning is required for wise decision making.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol absolutely. But you are grasping at straws. There is a difference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you denying that innocent people will get tangled up in the kind of enforcement effort you're advocating?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You mean making employers use e-verify? lol
> I guess its possible, but that's a possibility with EVERYTHING.
> Look black, nobody wants the elderly couple down the street to check the immigration status of their 10 year old neighbor to rake leaves. That's ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The sad thing is, the people most likely to get burned by this kind of police state shit are small start-ups who don't have the funds to perform comprehensive investigations on everyone they hire. No doubt the larger companies they are competing against will support your proposal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Isnt e-verify internet based?
> I wouldn't think larger companies are the actual problem.. At least for the most part.
Click to expand...


Nope. Most illegals work off the books, for people and employers without the resources to perform exhaustive investigations on everyone they work with.


----------



## TNHarley

dblack said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol absolutely. But you are grasping at straws. There is a difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you denying that innocent people will get tangled up in the kind of enforcement effort you're advocating?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You mean making employers use e-verify? lol
> I guess its possible, but that's a possibility with EVERYTHING.
> Look black, nobody wants the elderly couple down the street to check the immigration status of their 10 year old neighbor to rake leaves. That's ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The sad thing is, the people most likely to get burned by this kind of police state shit are small start-ups who don't have the funds to perform comprehensive investigations on everyone they hire. No doubt the larger companies they are competing against will support your proposal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Isnt e-verify internet based?
> I wouldn't think larger companies are the actual problem.. At least for the most part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. Most illegals work off the books, for people and employers without the resources to perform exhaustive investigations on everyone they work with.
Click to expand...

 Hmmmm... E-Verify Overview


----------



## Divine Wind

dblack said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please provide some factual data or percentages.  Saying "quite often", "a lot", "many" and the like is just a smoke screen.
> 
> Why are you so anxious to protect illegals?  Do you have a business that uses them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm anxious to protect everyone who doesn't live their lives sucking up to authoritarian government.
Click to expand...

While I agree with you, once again, you've failed to provide factual data.  Does this mean you don't have any?  Just opinion?


----------



## Divine Wind

dblack said:


> ...The exact opposite of your asinine accusation.


No need to become emotionally entangled in this discussion. 

It's okay if you don't have an intellectual reply or any facts to present.  Like all Americans, you're entitled to your opinion.


----------



## dblack

Alright. Speaking of work, back to it. Fun chatting with you jack-boots.


----------



## TNHarley

probably a good time. You don't have much room to argue anymore lol


----------



## Divine Wind

dblack said:


> I pretty much always vote Libertarian. I've never voted Democrat. Voted Republican - once, for Reagan in his first term. Regretted it.


Thanks.  Good to see we can agree on something.

While I agree with much of the Libertarian platform, unless you think it's wise we allow citizens to exercise vigilante justice, then we need government to protect citizens from unscrupulous businessmen.

Example.  If a restaurant was intentionally serving tainted food and some people not only became sick, but an old person or child died of illness, would you favor government recourse or an old fashioned neck-tie party for the restaurant's owner and family;  an eye for an eye? 

Likewise, if a taco truck did the same thing, is it okay with you if affected citizens burned the truck and killed the owners or do you suggest some sort of "big government" involvement here?


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

num_nut said:


> Book of Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're right, G5000.  I cannot speak for all immigrants but the immigrants coming from Mexico are very hard working people.   They come here for work to support their families _and _to send money back home to their parents, grandparents, cousins, those in need.  I would venture to say they have a better work ethic than most Americans do.  I have never met a Mexican person who wanted to collect welfare and stay at home!  Ever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't give a fuck how hard a worker someone is, if they sneaked in and they are here illegally, they should be sent right back where they came from !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While I agree that we should all abide by the laws of this land my point was to clarify that the Mexican people do not come here for a welfare check.  They are coming here for work and for a future.  I agree with the OP on point number 4.   Make citizenship easier.
> 
> To portray the Mexican people as lazy is grossly unfair.  They are a very hardworking, industrious people and desire to earn their own way rather than accept a hand out.   They are living under very stressful conditions and it is understandable they would want a safe place to live and a future for their families.  Don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think they are any more lazy than any other group, some are hard workers, some come here to have their offspring in order to be entitled to benefits.
> Regardless, they should show respect for our immigration laws. Millions have not, and in fact Mexicans are the #1 offenders.
> I would send every single one who is here illegally back if it were up to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've met people from Mexico and know firsthand that they are very hardworking people.  Whatever trade they are in?  They work harder than the rest do.  What I'd like for you to do is to think about how you would feel if you lived in a neighborhood where violence ruled the streets and you feared for the lives of your family members. Where your neighbors disappeared in broad daylight never to be seen again.  If you saw others crossing the border and lax laws on US immigration would you not at least try to get your family across the border?   Given the right set of circumstances?  I believe you would.  You see, you do not know what you would do unless you were confronted with such a predicament.  Have some compassion.   Do you have any idea how many Mexican people have settled for lower pay - even under the minimum wage in order to have the opportunity to live here?   They've been exploited by their own government, exploited by employers here in America and complain the least.  I believe in obeying the laws of the land but becoming a citizen should be made easier for these people. imo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If they're so great why is their own country a cesspool of corruption and mediocrity? Thousands and thousands of miles of warm water coastline, ports, Oil....they did nit build the Panama Canal, the USA did.
> 
> I understand exactly what you're saying and also I've seen it first-hand However Clean up your own Cesspool before infecting another one This is also brought to you by Google type talking I tried getting up to yours I don't really care
Click to expand...

I do not believe anyone with a criminal record (felony) should be permitted entry into our country.  I was speaking of Mexican people who desire to come here to escape the violence in their own country and want an opportunity to work here and have a better life.   In Mexico - the government, army and law enforcement are very corrupt.  I feel compassion for anyone living under such conditions.

The day may come when times are so hard in America (even worse than Mexico) that you may desire to cross the border and live there.  Don't burn your bridges.


----------



## Divine Wind

Book of Jeremiah said:


> I do not believe anyone with a criminal record (felony) should be permitted entry into our country.  I was speaking of Mexican people who desire to come here to escape the violence in their own country and want an opportunity to work here and have a better life.   In Mexico - the government, army and law enforcement are very corrupt.  I feel compassion for anyone living under such conditions.
> 
> The day may come when times are so hard in America (even worse than Mexico) that you may desire to cross the border and live there.  Don't burn your bridges.


Agreed on criminals entering the country.  AFAIK, that's already the case with legal immigrants.

Mexico isn't as bad as you make out.  Yes, there's some corruption, "bad" by American standards, but I've never had a problem down there.  As pointed out elsewhere, their economy has been booming for some time.  Lots of good jobs for those with a modicum of common sense. 

Many Americans do go to Mexico for either medical procedures or to live since the cost of living is much cheaper.  There are special retirement communities for the elderly on fixed incomes.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Divine.Wind said:


> Book of Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not believe anyone with a criminal record (felony) should be permitted entry into our country.  I was speaking of Mexican people who desire to come here to escape the violence in their own country and want an opportunity to work here and have a better life.   In Mexico - the government, army and law enforcement are very corrupt.  I feel compassion for anyone living under such conditions.
> 
> The day may come when times are so hard in America (even worse than Mexico) that you may desire to cross the border and live there.  Don't burn your bridges.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed on criminals entering the country.  AFAIK, that's already the case with legal immigrants.
> 
> Mexico isn't as bad as you make out.  Yes, there's some corruption, "bad" by American standards, but I've never had a problem down there.  As pointed out elsewhere, their economy has been booming for some time.  Lots of good jobs for those with a modicum of common sense.
> 
> Many Americans do go to Mexico for either medical procedures or to live since the cost of living is much cheaper.  There are special retirement communities for the elderly on fixed incomes.
Click to expand...

Thank you.  I stand corrected - there are *places / cities* in Mexico where there is much hopelessness and lawlessness but you are right, there are some good places to go in Mexico.  I have a close friend who vacations at a certain beach there and loves it.  They have even spoken of moving to that specific location - I forget the name of the beach they go to but it is quite safe.   Of course you would have to have far more money than the average Mexican citizen to live there.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Divine.Wind said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all. The two aren't as easily distinguished as you might imagine. And they're no different in principle. Is paying someone to mow your lawn "employing" them, or buying something from a business?
> 
> 
> 
> Let's start big and work small.  Obviously E-verifying the kid next door to mow your lawn or babysit your kid is "small".  Let's start with businesses and employers of  5-10 or more people.  If that works, then we can update the system later.
Click to expand...

If the child is old enough to mow your lawn and not injure himself I would agree with you but no child (kid) should be babysitting your children.  Too much can happen and you would never be able to undo it.  Who babysits your child is no small thing.  It is one of the most important decisions you'll ever make in your life and you should address it as such.


----------



## Divine Wind

Book of Jeremiah said:


> Thank you.  I stand corrected - there are *places / cities* in Mexico where there is much hopelessness and lawlessness but you are right, there are some good places to go in Mexico.  I have a close friend who vacations at a certain beach there and loves it.  They have even spoken of moving to that specific location - I forget the name of the beach they go to but it is quite safe.   Of course you would have to have far more money than the average Mexican citizen to live there.


There are several; Cancun, Mazatlan and Acapulco to name a few.  What's funny is the rumor that one reasons why the resort cities are so safe is because that's where the Cartels launder their money.  Like the Mafia buying up Vegas, the Cartels own the major businesses and hotels in the resort cities.  Anyone who messes with tourists is going to raise the ire of the Cartels and end up with their head in cooler outside of town.


----------



## Divine Wind

Book of Jeremiah said:


> If the child is old enough to mow your lawn and not injure himself I would agree with you but *no child (kid) should be babysitting your children.*  Too much can happen and you would never be able to undo it.  Who babysits your child is no small thing.  It is one of the most important decisions you'll ever make in your life and you should address it as such.


Is 16 too young?  14?  18?  Not everyone can afford to hire a professional nanny for a Saturday night on the town.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Divine.Wind said:


> Book of Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the child is old enough to mow your lawn and not injure himself I would agree with you but *no child (kid) should be babysitting your children.*  Too much can happen and you would never be able to undo it.  Who babysits your child is no small thing.  It is one of the most important decisions you'll ever make in your life and you should address it as such.
> 
> 
> 
> Is 16 too young?  14?  18?  Not everyone can afford to hire a professional nanny for a Saturday night on the town.
Click to expand...

Then don't go.   If you had 10 billion dollars in gold sitting in your living room would you trust the person you left watching over it for you for an evening?   No.  You wouldn't.

You see, the problem is the same people who will leave their children with people they do not really know - would die before they would leave their life savings with the same people.  It's a matter of value.  Children are a most valuable gift from God and as such they should be looked after as if your life depended on it.  Because it does.  I am reminded of a wealthy couple who left their child with a nanny who was unhappy about her pay.  They didn't know her very well - perhaps for a few years and she was recommended by a friend of theirs.   One day the woman murdered the child while the parents were at work.

It wasn't that they couldn't afford to pay an extended family member even $100,000.00 a year to watch after their child.  They were just too cheap.   And because they were cheap they thought they could cut corners on child care even though they admitted later on that they had sensed something was wrong with the woman.  Big mistake and now their lives have been changed forever.  Was it worth it?  Ask them.

Hindsight is 20/20.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

This is what I would advise a person do to concerning childcare.  Pray about it.  Then select someone that you know, like and trust (family member or non family member) and ask several of the most godly, discerning Christians you know to meet the person and ask them for their counsel on whether or not that is the right person.  There is wisdom in many counselors.


----------



## P@triot

bendog said:


> 3's unconstitutional, but other than that I could be ok with it.


Uh....what? Where in the hell in the U.S. Constitution does it say that illegal immigrants must receive healthcare, drivers licenses, etc.? There is nothing even remotely "unconstitutional" about TNHarley's point number three.


----------



## strollingbones

TNHarley said:


> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 
> 
> agree
> 
> 
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 
> agree
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 
> disagree one should never want a generation or culture that is ignorant.....no turning down people at the er
> we, as a society can afford the treatment..while denial of treatment can cause more damage...i would rather someone with a splinter in their eye be treated than blinded in that eye (beans of egypt maine)
> 
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> 
> how easy should it be...if you can in the 50's it was 200 bucks and a few papers...today it can run more like 5 k and tons of paperwork ....the us wants immigration over invasion
> 
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> 
> they did the work for welfare in nc....had to work 8 hours a week or so to collect....i didnt think it really changed anything...
> 
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise



feeding ones family.....in today's society welfare queens think they are doing that by working the program.....and welfare queen refers to both sexes...it is sad to see meth heads fighting over custody of a child cause they know the parent with the child gets medicare and they can get oxies then...paid for....


----------



## TNHarley

strollingbones said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 
> 
> agree
> 
> 
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 
> agree
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 
> disagree one should never want a generation or culture that is ignorant.....no turning down people at the er
> we, as a society can afford the treatment..while denial of treatment can cause more damage...i would rather someone with a splinter in their eye be treated than blinded in that eye (beans of egypt maine)
> 
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> 
> how easy should it be...if you can in the 50's it was 200 bucks and a few papers...today it can run more like 5 k and tons of paperwork ....the us wants immigration over invasion
> 
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> 
> they did the work for welfare in nc....had to work 8 hours a week or so to collect....i didnt think it really changed anything...
> 
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> feeding ones family.....in today's society welfare queens think they are doing that by working the program.....and welfare queen refers to both sexes...it is sad to see meth heads fighting over custody of a child cause they know the parent with the child gets medicare and they can get oxies then...paid for....
Click to expand...

3. but they are not "our culture". They are not even citizens. Incentive keeps them coming. We have to stop it.
8 hours a week is bullshit for able bodied Americans.


----------



## strollingbones

i was referring to a 'culture of ignorance"


----------



## TNHarley

strollingbones said:


> i was referring to a 'culture of ignorance"


 but its not "our" culture. They aren't even Americans.
Maybe being dumb would be incentive enough to go back home?


----------



## strollingbones

which immigrants are we discussing...brown ones.....all of them.....what is the cost of giving each a fair trial and then sending them back....now when arrested many are given a free plane ticket home...they consider that a great thing and they will just fly back when they want to come back.....


----------



## TNHarley

strollingbones said:


> which immigrants are we discussing...brown ones.....all of them.....what is the cost of giving each a fair trial and then sending them back....now when arrested many are given a free plane ticket home...they consider that a great thing and they will just fly back when they want to come back.....


 All of them. I don't discriminate 
And you wont find me supporting deportation. I want it to be where they will leave themselves.


----------



## strollingbones

how can you ask people escaping from war to go back?  we need to help their countries when and if possible...


----------



## TNHarley

strollingbones said:


> how can you ask people escaping from war to go back?  we need to help their countries when and if possible...


 I don't think we should accept refugees. At least from the ME. The are unskilled, savage cultured etc Not to mention how easy it would be for our enemies to take advantage. One must remember, there is no[ way to thoroughly vet those people.


----------



## dblack

fascists gonna fash


----------



## TNHarley

dblack said:


> fascists gonna fash


Sorry friend, but do you have anything to add other than emotional bullshit?
You have already been shown your everify nightmare was manufactured in your head..


----------



## dblack

TNHarley said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> fascists gonna fash
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry friend, but do you have anything to add other than emotional bullshit?
> You have already been shown your everify nightmare was manufactured in your head..
Click to expand...


Riiiight. Just go on down that road.


----------



## TNHarley

dblack said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> fascists gonna fash
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry friend, but do you have anything to add other than emotional bullshit?
> You have already been shown your everify nightmare was manufactured in your head..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Riiiight. Just go on down that road.
Click to expand...

So no? Ok thanks anyways!


----------



## strollingbones

TNHarley look into australia's  policies....you will like them.....they are moving refugees who came by boat to a 8 square mile island...they refuse to take any refugees arriving by boat...


Australia's Controversial Migration Policy


----------



## TNHarley

strollingbones said:


> TNHarley look into australia's  policies....you will like them.....they are moving refugees who came by boat to a 8 square mile island...they refuse to take any refugees arriving by boat...
> 
> 
> Australia's Controversial Migration Policy


 I love it! thank you!


----------



## TNHarley

Still the best plan I have ever seen


----------



## Syriusly

TNHarley said:


> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise



1&2 make sense- #3 sounds simple, but the first time there are photo's of a child lying dead outside a hospital, it would fall apart. 
Rather than becoming a citizen easier, becoming a legal worker simpler.

Your proposal for 'Welfare' reform sounds great- except there are already work requirements for welfare. Welfare recipients tend to be single moms and their kids. Getting the moms to work means better child care access.

As far as people who are not working because they don't want to work- who are these people?


----------



## Tom Horn

bendog said:


> 3's unconstitutional, but other than that I could be ok with it.



Where in the Constitution does it say illegals have a "right" to anything?


----------



## TNHarley

Syriusly said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1&2 make sense- #3 sounds simple, but the first time there are photo's of a child lying dead outside a hospital, it would fall apart.
> Rather than becoming a citizen easier, becoming a legal worker simpler.
> 
> Your proposal for 'Welfare' reform sounds great- except there are already work requirements for welfare. Welfare recipients tend to be single moms and their kids. Getting the moms to work means better child care access.
> 
> As far as people who are not working because they don't want to work- who are these people?
Click to expand...

 Emotion cant run a country 
There isn't a work requirement federally. Just a few states have it. We need it federally.


----------



## TooTall

TNHarley said:


> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise



All they have to say is that "if you send me home they will kill me" and Obama instantly makes them a LEGAL refugee.


----------



## dblack

How frustrating to find out that you can't really control people like you'd hoped.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

TNHarley said:


> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise


I'm on board but I see no reason to make becoming a citizen easier. We already have enough people on the doles without making that fishing line heavier. 
And as far as I'm concerned if you are found to have knowingly hired an illegal you lose your business license


----------



## P@triot

bendog said:


> 3's unconstitutional, but other than that I could be ok with it.


You might want to actually _read_ the U.S. Constitution before making that claim...


----------



## P@triot

bendog said:


> States must provide free public k-12 education to non-citizen children per the Scotus.


The Supreme Court is *not* the U.S. Constitution. If you want to proclaim that #3 is illegal based on a Surpeme Court ruling - then fine. But don't say it's "unconstitutional" because that is simply inaccurate.


----------



## TNHarley

Grampa Murked U said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> I'm on board but I see no reason to make becoming a citizen easier. We already have enough people on the doles without making that fishing line heavier.
> And as far as I'm concerned if you are found to have knowingly hired an illegal you lose your business license
Click to expand...

 Fair enough. But I wouldn't want people coming here that are worthless in the first place.


----------



## dblack

TNHarley said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> I'm on board but I see no reason to make becoming a citizen easier. We already have enough people on the doles without making that fishing line heavier.
> And as far as I'm concerned if you are found to have knowingly hired an illegal you lose your business license
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fair enough. But I wouldn't want people coming here that are worthless in the first place.
Click to expand...


Be careful with that. They might decide to make such a policy retroactive.


----------



## TNHarley

dblack said:


> How frustrating to find out that you can't really control people like you'd hoped.


 what do you mean?


----------



## dblack

TNHarley said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> How frustrating to find out that you can't really control people like you'd hoped.
> 
> 
> 
> what do you mean?
Click to expand...


Build the wall. You'll find out.


----------



## TNHarley

dblack said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> How frustrating to find out that you can't really control people like you'd hoped.
> 
> 
> 
> what do you mean?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Build the wall. You'll find out.
Click to expand...

 Yes, because my OP mentioned that..


----------



## dblack

TNHarley said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> How frustrating to find out that you can't really control people like you'd hoped.
> 
> 
> 
> what do you mean?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Build the wall. You'll find out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, because my OP mentioned that..
Click to expand...


It was a figurative comment. The point is, authoritarians long for the ability to control everyone, but they can't. Make up all the rules you want, bash heads till the cows come home, and people will still defy your mandates.


----------



## TNHarley

dblack said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> How frustrating to find out that you can't really control people like you'd hoped.
> 
> 
> 
> what do you mean?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Build the wall. You'll find out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, because my OP mentioned that..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was a figurative comment. The point is, authoritarians long for the ability to control everyone, but they can't. Make up all the rules you want, bash heads till the cows come home, and people will still defy your mandates.
Click to expand...

 Having a Nation is authoritarian? Lol
Why would people deny "my mandates" if they cant even get ER treatment here? Splain that


----------



## dblack

TNHarley said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> How frustrating to find out that you can't really control people like you'd hoped.
> 
> 
> 
> what do you mean?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Build the wall. You'll find out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, because my OP mentioned that..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was a figurative comment. The point is, authoritarians long for the ability to control everyone, but they can't. Make up all the rules you want, bash heads till the cows come home, and people will still defy your mandates.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Having a Nation is authoritarian?
Click to expand...


The mandates proposed by your OP were authoritarian. Believe it or not, we can have a nation with a totalitarian government.


----------



## Onyx

TNHarley said:


> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise



Get rid of illegal immigration and all forms of government assistance.

Anything else is socialist bullshit.


----------



## Onyx

dblack said:


> The mandates proposed by your OP were authoritarian. Believe it or not, we can have a nation with a totalitarian government.



Inverted totalitarian mind you!


----------



## TNHarley

dblack said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> what do you mean?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Build the wall. You'll find out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, because my OP mentioned that..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was a figurative comment. The point is, authoritarians long for the ability to control everyone, but they can't. Make up all the rules you want, bash heads till the cows come home, and people will still defy your mandates.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Having a Nation is authoritarian?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The mandates proposed by your OP were authoritarian. Believe it or not, we can have a nation with a totalitarian government.
Click to expand...

Forcing employers to abide by the law(procv and not getting free shit is authoritarian? So is making able bodied welfare recipients work? I don't get your logic here.


----------



## TNHarley

Onyx said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. MASSIVELY fine employers
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for jobs and living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, drivers licenses, healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING
> 4. Make becoming a citizen easier. The current system is a bunch of bullshit. They make it seem like we don't want any immigration..
> The economy you ask? The jobs?
> After that gets implemented, create a work requirement for welfare(obviously not all cases). Then we fill those jobs "Americans don't want" AND we cut welfare. 2 birds 1 stone.
> If they don't want to work em', then fuck em'. They obviously don't have much self-respect or respect for their families. I would do whatever I had to do to feed my family. But that is just me.
> 
> Different ideas? I am willing to actually compromise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get rid of illegal immigration and all forms of government assistance.
> 
> Anything else is socialist bullshit.
Click to expand...

 Yes, I would love for millions of americans to starve or freeze to death. And open borders? Sounds like HEAVEN!


----------



## dblack

TNHarley said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Build the wall. You'll find out.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, because my OP mentioned that..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was a figurative comment. The point is, authoritarians long for the ability to control everyone, but they can't. Make up all the rules you want, bash heads till the cows come home, and people will still defy your mandates.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Having a Nation is authoritarian?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The mandates proposed by your OP were authoritarian. Believe it or not, we can have a nation with a totalitarian government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Forcing employers to abide by the law(procv and not getting free shit is authoritarian? So is making able bodied welfare recipients work? I don't get your logic here.
Click to expand...


I know.


----------



## Onyx

TNHarley said:


> Yes, I would love for millions of americans to starve or freeze to death.



Humans  only starve when states deprive them of food. Humans only freeze when states deprive them of shelter. 

You believe the answer to state degradation is more institutionalized force?



> And open borders? Sounds like HEAVEN!



I agree. A competitive labor market sounds like heaven.


----------



## TNHarley

dblack said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, because my OP mentioned that..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was a figurative comment. The point is, authoritarians long for the ability to control everyone, but they can't. Make up all the rules you want, bash heads till the cows come home, and people will still defy your mandates.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Having a Nation is authoritarian?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The mandates proposed by your OP were authoritarian. Believe it or not, we can have a nation with a totalitarian government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Forcing employers to abide by the law(procv and not getting free shit is authoritarian? So is making able bodied welfare recipients work? I don't get your logic here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.
Click to expand...

 lol ok. This is why libertarians cant get any decent seats. They are


----------



## TNHarley

ugh anarchy is just not plausible anymore. Not at the state some people want..
How many 95 year old women can go fucking deer hunting?


----------



## Onyx

TNHarley said:


> lol ok. This is why libertarians cant get any decent seats. They are



I believe dblack is an anarcho-communist, or at very least a libertarian socialist.

No modern LP represents the interests of real libertarians, and for anarchists to support an LP would be ludicrous.


----------



## Onyx

TNHarley said:


> ugh anarchy is just not plausible anymore.



Statism has never been plausible dipshit.

It is the ultimate source of death and economic collapse.



> Not at the state some people want..



There are no levels of anarchy. You are either living in a society without rulers of you are not living in a society without rulers. 

Anarchism has already been proved in the modern era (not sure why the modern era would make freedom any less plausible anyhow). 



> How many 95 year old women can go fucking deer hunting?



What does deer hunting have to do with anarchy? Pretty sure a 95 year old woman can get in her car and drive to a market.

Or were you one of those idiots that has invented a distorted fantasy about how anarchy means the total collapse of all civil cooperation and economic trade?


----------



## TNHarley

Onyx said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> ugh anarchy is just not plausible anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statism has never been plausible dipshit.
> 
> It is the ultimate source of death and economic collapse.
> 
> Not at the state some people want..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many 95 year old women can go fucking deer hunting?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does deer hunting have to do with anarchy? Pretty sure a 95 year old woman can get in her car and drive to a market.
> 
> Or were you one of those idiots that has invented a distorted fantasy about how anarchy means the total collapse of all civil cooperation and economic trade?
Click to expand...

 Having a Nation isnt statism, dipshit. You are just too extreme on this shit to have a decent convo. Its like talking race relations to a 1950s KKK member.


----------



## Onyx

TNHarley said:


> Having a Nation isnt statism, dipshit.



No, it isn't, nor did I even make reference to nations.

A nation is a socially constructed collective identity encompassing a group of people that have a shared history, race, ethnicity, language, ect.



> You are just too extreme on this shit to have a decent convo



What's extreme is the ideology of statism, which has killed tens of billions of human beings and has caused tens of thousands of economic recessions.



> Its like talking race relations to a 1950s KKK member.



Likewise, statists ( the greatest bunch of stupid fucks in existence) are impossible to talk with. They are just useful idiots through and through.

I do it anyways, in the hopes that one of you braindead tools will understand the savagery and stupidity of your beliefs.


----------



## TNHarley

omg


----------



## Onyx

TNHarley said:


> omg



OMG is what I say everyday, wondering how the human race could be so stupid.

And again, I apologize if exposing pure idiocy and evil is "too extreme," but it would be irresponsible for me to become just another complacent loser.


----------



## TNHarley

OP still rings true today. We don't need a wall if we fix the CAUSES of illegal immigration.


----------



## TNHarley

Thanks Divine.Wind your post in the other thread is actually what made me post that


----------



## Divine Wind

TNHarley said:


> OP still rings true today. We don't need a wall if we fix the CAUSES of illegal immigration.


Agreed.  Stop supporting illegals and arrest those that do.  The biggest deterrent to illegal immigration in the past 30 years was the Great Recession.

https://web.stanford.edu/group/rece.../themes/barron/pdf/Immigration_fact_sheet.pdf

Why Is the Undocumented Immigrant Population Dropping?
_ The collapse of the U.S. economy in 2008-2010 played a big part in reducing the flow of border-crossers, since it dulled the jobs magnet that had attracted immigrants in the first place. As the U.S. economy has strengthened in the last few years, the pace of the decline has slowed, but it has not reversed as some had predicted it would._


----------



## Picaro

TNHarley said:


> OP still rings true today. We don't need a wall if we fix the CAUSES of illegal immigration.



Yep. going after their employers would solve 90% of the problem, and far more effectively than randomly arresting a few here and there.

What's hilarious is watching the PBS propaganda channel run hours long pity parties for 'Dreamers' and illegals, claiming 'dire poverty' and all kinds of horrors of living there, and then switching over to the PBS cooking show channel and watching the tourist shows and Mexican cooking shows and seeing all the obese well dressed Mexicans literally everywhere. Even the border shots of lines of illegals walking across the desert or being removed from vans and the like in busts are overwhelmingly nicely dressed fat asses.


----------



## OldLady

Picaro said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> OP still rings true today. We don't need a wall if we fix the CAUSES of illegal immigration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep. going after their employers would solve 90% of the problem, and far more effectively than randomly arresting a few here and there.
> 
> What's hilarious is watching the PBS propaganda channel run hours long pity parties for 'Dreamers' and illegals, claiming 'dire poverty' and all kinds of horrors of living there, and then switching over to the PBS cooking show channel and watching the tourist shows and Mexican cooking shows and seeing all the obese well dressed Mexicans literally everywhere. Even the border shots of lines of illegals walking across the desert or being removed from vans and the like in busts are overwhelmingly nicely dressed fat asses.
Click to expand...

Fry bread and beans and rice are not lo cal.


----------



## Picaro

OldLady said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> OP still rings true today. We don't need a wall if we fix the CAUSES of illegal immigration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep. going after their employers would solve 90% of the problem, and far more effectively than randomly arresting a few here and there.
> 
> What's hilarious is watching the PBS propaganda channel run hours long pity parties for 'Dreamers' and illegals, claiming 'dire poverty' and all kinds of horrors of living there, and then switching over to the PBS cooking show channel and watching the tourist shows and Mexican cooking shows and seeing all the obese well dressed Mexicans literally everywhere. Even the border shots of lines of illegals walking across the desert or being removed from vans and the like in busts are overwhelmingly nicely dressed fat asses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fry bread and beans and rice are not lo cal.
Click to expand...


Never saw a market that wasn't bursting at the seams with goods in Mexico, even street vendor carts, and at dirt cheap prices. These are just workers wanting to take advantage of currency exchange rates, not some sort of Mexican Grapes Of Wrath delusion left wingers keep trying to peddle. It's easy to break the law so they come in droves.


----------



## OldLady

Picaro said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> OP still rings true today. We don't need a wall if we fix the CAUSES of illegal immigration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep. going after their employers would solve 90% of the problem, and far more effectively than randomly arresting a few here and there.
> 
> What's hilarious is watching the PBS propaganda channel run hours long pity parties for 'Dreamers' and illegals, claiming 'dire poverty' and all kinds of horrors of living there, and then switching over to the PBS cooking show channel and watching the tourist shows and Mexican cooking shows and seeing all the obese well dressed Mexicans literally everywhere. Even the border shots of lines of illegals walking across the desert or being removed from vans and the like in busts are overwhelmingly nicely dressed fat asses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fry bread and beans and rice are not lo cal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never saw a market that wasn't bursting at the seams with goods in Mexico, even street vendor carts, and at dirt cheap prices. These are just workers wanting to take advantage of currency exchange rates, not some sort of Mexican Grapes Of Wrath delusion left wingers keep trying to peddle. It's easy to break the law so they come in droves.
Click to expand...

I think I heard that over half of our recent illegal immigrants have been coming from Central and South America, not Mexico.    It should be much harder to break the law and work here, but no one wants to touch the employers.  Why is that?


----------



## Divine Wind

OldLady said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> OP still rings true today. We don't need a wall if we fix the CAUSES of illegal immigration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep. going after their employers would solve 90% of the problem, and far more effectively than randomly arresting a few here and there.
> 
> What's hilarious is watching the PBS propaganda channel run hours long pity parties for 'Dreamers' and illegals, claiming 'dire poverty' and all kinds of horrors of living there, and then switching over to the PBS cooking show channel and watching the tourist shows and Mexican cooking shows and seeing all the obese well dressed Mexicans literally everywhere. Even the border shots of lines of illegals walking across the desert or being removed from vans and the like in busts are overwhelmingly nicely dressed fat asses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fry bread and beans and rice are not lo cal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never saw a market that wasn't bursting at the seams with goods in Mexico, even street vendor carts, and at dirt cheap prices. These are just workers wanting to take advantage of currency exchange rates, not some sort of Mexican Grapes Of Wrath delusion left wingers keep trying to peddle. It's easy to break the law so they come in droves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think I heard that over half of our recent illegal immigrants have been coming from Central and South America, not Mexico.    It should be much harder to break the law and work here, but no one wants to touch the employers.  Why is that?
Click to expand...

It's a mix. 

Demographics of Immigrants in the United States Illegally - Illegal Immigration - ProCon.org





5 facts about illegal immigration in the U.S.


Homeland Security produces first estimate of foreign visitors to U.S. who overstay deadline to leave









_The country profile of foreign visitors who overstay and became unauthorized is somewhat different from that of unauthorized immigrants overall. Mexicans made up 49% of unauthorized immigrants in 2014 (including some who arrived decades ago), but according to the report, they account for only about 9% of foreigners (or 42,000 people) who arrived by air and sea, overstayed and had not left by the end of fiscal 2015. Canadians, meanwhile, account for about 1% of unauthorized immigrants in Pew Research Center’s latest estimate for 2012, but 19% of overstayers who had not departed by the end of fiscal 2015, or 93,000 people._


----------



## Picaro

OldLady said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> OP still rings true today. We don't need a wall if we fix the CAUSES of illegal immigration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep. going after their employers would solve 90% of the problem, and far more effectively than randomly arresting a few here and there.
> 
> What's hilarious is watching the PBS propaganda channel run hours long pity parties for 'Dreamers' and illegals, claiming 'dire poverty' and all kinds of horrors of living there, and then switching over to the PBS cooking show channel and watching the tourist shows and Mexican cooking shows and seeing all the obese well dressed Mexicans literally everywhere. Even the border shots of lines of illegals walking across the desert or being removed from vans and the like in busts are overwhelmingly nicely dressed fat asses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fry bread and beans and rice are not lo cal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never saw a market that wasn't bursting at the seams with goods in Mexico, even street vendor carts, and at dirt cheap prices. These are just workers wanting to take advantage of currency exchange rates, not some sort of Mexican Grapes Of Wrath delusion left wingers keep trying to peddle. It's easy to break the law so they come in droves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think I heard that over half of our recent illegal immigrants have been coming from Central and South America, not Mexico.    It should be much harder to break the law and work here, but no one wants to touch the employers.  Why is that?
Click to expand...


I've pointed that out myself many times. Going after them would take care of 90% of the issue by itself. As for the mix of countries, that may be the case for recent illegals, but Mexicans still make up  over 70% of the total overall from this hemisphere.


----------



## dblack

Picaro said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> OP still rings true today. We don't need a wall if we fix the CAUSES of illegal immigration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep. going after their employers would solve 90% of the problem, and far more effectively than randomly arresting a few here and there.
> 
> What's hilarious is watching the PBS propaganda channel run hours long pity parties for 'Dreamers' and illegals, claiming 'dire poverty' and all kinds of horrors of living there, and then switching over to the PBS cooking show channel and watching the tourist shows and Mexican cooking shows and seeing all the obese well dressed Mexicans literally everywhere. Even the border shots of lines of illegals walking across the desert or being removed from vans and the like in busts are overwhelmingly nicely dressed fat asses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fry bread and beans and rice are not lo cal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never saw a market that wasn't bursting at the seams with goods in Mexico, even street vendor carts, and at dirt cheap prices. These are just workers wanting to take advantage of currency exchange rates, not some sort of Mexican Grapes Of Wrath delusion left wingers keep trying to peddle. It's easy to break the law so they come in droves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think I heard that over half of our recent illegal immigrants have been coming from Central and South America, not Mexico.    It should be much harder to break the law and work here, but no one wants to touch the employers.  Why is that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've pointed that out myself many times. Going after them would take care of 90% of the issue by itself. As for the mix of countries, that may be the case for recent illegals, but Mexicans still make up  over 70% of the total overall from this hemisphere.
Click to expand...


Would this also apply to lawn service? What about buying a taco at a taco cart? Having my windshield cleaned at a stop light?


----------



## dblack

I'm beginning to think some of you just have a hard-on for a police state, regardless of the excuse.


----------



## TNHarley

dblack said:


> I'm beginning to think some of you just have a hard-on for a police state, regardless of the excuse.


IKR? Wanting to restrict govt overreach(free shit for illegals) and wanting a "nation" means we want a police state.
Genius!


----------



## TNHarley

If you follow the law, you are a goddamn commie!


----------



## OldLady

Last evening, CNN was going on and on about the funding for border security and how the admin is calling a "Wall" what is actually a "fence."  The plans are to replace existing fencing which needs repair with 20 foot high steel fencing (which border security prefers because they can see through it) but the administration is calling it a Wall.  As long as people can't climb over or under it, does it matter?
The admin is calling the fence a wall.  Let's all have vapors over it and brand them LIARS.  This country is losing its shit.


----------



## TNHarley

FUCK DACA


----------



## Penelope

OldLady said:


> Last evening, CNN was going on and on about the funding for border security and how the admin is calling a "Wall" what is actually a "fence."  The plans are to replace existing fencing which needs repair with 20 foot high steel fencing (which border security prefers because they can see through it) but the administration is calling it a Wall.  As long as people can't climb over or under it, does it matter?
> The admin is calling the fence a wall.  Let's all have vapors over it and brand them LIARS.  This country is losing its shit.



Maybe because he called it a wall in his rallies and well Mexico was to pay for it.


----------



## TNHarley

Penelope said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last evening, CNN was going on and on about the funding for border security and how the admin is calling a "Wall" what is actually a "fence."  The plans are to replace existing fencing which needs repair with 20 foot high steel fencing (which border security prefers because they can see through it) but the administration is calling it a Wall.  As long as people can't climb over or under it, does it matter?
> The admin is calling the fence a wall.  Let's all have vapors over it and brand them LIARS.  This country is losing its shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe because he called it a wall in his rallies and well Mexico was to pay for it.
Click to expand...

yea, i need this to keep the rabbits out of my carrots


----------



## P@triot

Penelope said:


> Maybe because he called it a wall in his rallies and well Mexico was to pay for it.


You take the money we send to Mexico in the form of “aid” and you apply it to the wall. Then you permanently end all “aid” as a punishment for their inactions and burdening us. Boom...Mexico just paid for the wall.

So simple only a progressive couldn’t understand it.


----------



## Unkotare

TNHarley said:


> ...
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for ..... living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, ...... healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING.....




Never happen. Any practical ideas?


----------



## P@triot

Unkotare said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for ..... living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, ...... healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING.....
> 
> 
> 
> Never happen. Any practical ideas?
Click to expand...

Well those are all practical. Just because the ignorant and radicalized left might prevent it from happening doesn’t mean it isn’t practical.


----------



## Unkotare

P@triot said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for ..... living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, ...... healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING.....
> 
> 
> 
> Never happen. Any practical ideas?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well those are all practical. Just because the ignorant and radicalized left might prevent it from happening doesn’t mean it isn’t practical.
Click to expand...



Nope. No one of sound mind thinks any of the items I highlighted would ever happen. An emo-waste of time.

The Supreme Court has already ruled on education.

The nonsense about housing is unenforceable.

The idea of hospitals allowing the sick to die in the ER without helping them is too absurd to merit consideration.


----------



## P@triot

Unkotare said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for ..... living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, ...... healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING.....
> 
> 
> 
> Never happen. Any practical ideas?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well those are all practical. Just because the ignorant and radicalized left might prevent it from happening doesn’t mean it isn’t practical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope. No one of sound mind thinks any of the items I highlighted would ever happen. An emo-waste of time.
Click to expand...

Again...all 100% practical. The left is irrational - you can’t judge practical based on what the left will agree to.


----------



## Unkotare

P@triot said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for ..... living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, ...... healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING.....
> 
> 
> 
> Never happen. Any practical ideas?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well those are all practical. Just because the ignorant and radicalized left might prevent it from happening doesn’t mean it isn’t practical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope. No one of sound mind thinks any of the items I highlighted would ever happen. An emo-waste of time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again...all 100% practical. ....
Click to expand...

[/QUOTE]


I've explained to you why they are not.


----------



## Michelle420

bendog said:


> 3's unconstitutional, but other than that I could be ok with it.



Why is 3 unconstitutional?


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth

dblack said:


> I'm beginning to think some of you just have a hard-on for a police state, regardless


Somebody doesn't know what a police stare is.


----------



## P@triot

Unkotare said:


> I've explained to you why they are not.


Your “explanation” is irrational and fallible.


----------



## Unkotare

P@triot said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've explained to you why they are not.
> 
> 
> 
> Your “explanation” is irrational and fallible.
Click to expand...


Be specific.


----------



## Unkotare

The Supreme Court has already ruled on education.

The nonsense about housing is unenforceable.

The idea of hospitals allowing the sick to die in the ER without helping them is too absurd to merit consideration.


----------



## P@triot

Unkotare said:


> The Supreme Court has already ruled on education.


The Supreme Court also ruled on “Obamacare” and yet it can (and likely _will_) be repealed. 


Unkotare said:


> The nonsense about housing is unenforceable.


_Everything_ is enforceable. 


Unkotare said:


> The idea of hospitals allowing the sick to die in the ER without helping them is too absurd to merit consideration.


No it’s not. That was the norm before the 1980’s,chief.


----------



## Unkotare

Denial with no reasoning is not a rebuttal.


----------



## Unkotare

P@triot said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Supreme Court has already ruled on education.
> 
> 
> 
> The Supreme Court also ruled on “Obamacare” and yet it can (and likely _will_) be repealed. ....
Click to expand...



Three decades so far and it hasn't been yet.


----------



## Unkotare

P@triot said:


> .....
> _Everything_ is enforceable. ...




Again, impractical.


----------



## P@triot

Unkotare said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Supreme Court has already ruled on education.
> 
> 
> 
> The Supreme Court also ruled on “Obamacare” and yet it can (and likely _will_) be repealed. ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Three decades so far and it hasn't been yet.
Click to expand...

Your position is that Obamacare has been law for 3 decades already?


----------



## P@triot

Unkotare said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> _Everything_ is enforceable. ...
> 
> 
> 
> Again, impractical.
Click to expand...

Enforcing the law is “impractical” in your mind?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

P@triot said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Supreme Court has already ruled on education.
> 
> 
> 
> The Supreme Court also ruled on “Obamacare” and yet it can (and likely _will_) be repealed. ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Three decades so far and it hasn't been yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your position is that Obamacare has been law for 3 decades already?
Click to expand...


No, the SCOTUS ruling on educating illegals.

Obamacare was ruled Constitutional because it was a tax.  The court said nothing about repeal.  You are confused, but that is your normal state.


----------



## Issa

It's funny how those who hate immigrants legal or illegal are those who don't live with them.
We in blue states love the diversity and the hard working immigrants. They all come here for a better life.


----------



## Unkotare

P@triot said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Supreme Court has already ruled on education.
> 
> 
> 
> The Supreme Court also ruled on “Obamacare” and yet it can (and likely _will_) be repealed.
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The nonsense about housing is unenforceable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Everything_ is enforceable.
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The idea of hospitals allowing the sick to die in the ER without helping them is too absurd to merit consideration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No it’s not. .....
Click to expand...


Doctors and nurses are not going to watch patients die in the ER waiting room. Even before 1986, no cases requiring immediate care were simply thrown out the door. Juvenile revenge fantasies aside, America is America and Americans are decent, honorable people (with obvious exceptions). So, that nonsense is not going to happen.


----------



## Unkotare

Issa said:


> It's funny how those who hate immigrants legal or illegal are those who don't live them......




Those who hate anyone are those who don't know 'them.'


----------



## Unkotare

P@triot said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Supreme Court has already ruled on education.
> 
> 
> 
> The Supreme Court also ruled on “Obamacare” and yet it can (and likely _will_) be repealed. ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Three decades so far and it hasn't been yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your position is that Obamacare has been law for 3 decades already?
Click to expand...



Really? Try to pay attention.


----------



## Unkotare

P@triot said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> _Everything_ is enforceable. ...
> 
> 
> 
> Again, impractical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Enforcing the law is “impractical” in your mind?
Click to expand...



You big-government liberals may want a federal agent stationed in every room of every building in the nation, but you'd run out of black shirts far short of the mark.


----------



## BrokeLoser

Issa said:


> It's funny how those who hate immigrants legal or illegal are those who don't live them.
> We in blue states love the diversity and the hard working immigrants. They all come here for a better life.



NEGATIVE...you “love” them because you are one of them....hahaha.
You’re not fooling anybody iSiS.
Remember, drug addicts want drugs legal.


----------



## P@triot

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Obamacare was ruled Constitutional because it was a tax.


Which immediately makes it unconstitutional and thus null and void. Revenue generating bills can only be created in the House - the Obamacare bill that was passed into law was created in the Senate. _Oops_...

*Article 1, Section 7*


> “All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.”


And...not for noting my very confused little snowflake...but Barack Insane Obama himself was adamant that Obamacare was *not* a tax”.


Excerpt From The United States Constitution
United States. This material may be protected by copyright.


----------



## P@triot

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> The court said nothing about repeal.


The court doesn’t handle repeal, snowflake. Good grief are you confused as hell right now. Congress handles repeal. And they can change existing laws at _any_ moment.


----------



## P@triot

Unkotare said:


> America is America and Americans are decent, honorable people (with obvious exceptions). So, that nonsense is not going to happen.


You’re right - and we outlawed slavery 160 years ago because there is nothing “honorable” about slavery. It is only right that a person be compensated for their labor. Deal with it.


----------



## Unkotare

P@triot said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> The court said nothing about repeal.
> 
> 
> 
> The court doesn’t handle repeal, snowflake. Good grief are you confused as hell right now. Congress handles repeal. And they can change existing laws at _any_ moment.
Click to expand...



You brought up the term, genius.


----------



## Unkotare

P@triot said:


> .... there is nothing “honorable” about slavery......




Or watching people die who you could help, which is why Americans don't do that.


----------



## Issa

BrokeLoser said:


> Issa said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny how those who hate immigrants legal or illegal are those who don't live them.
> We in blue states love the diversity and the hard working immigrants. They all come here for a better life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEGATIVE...you “love” them because you are one of them....hahaha.
> You’re not fooling anybody iSiS.
> Remember, drug addicts want drugs legal.
Click to expand...

What makes me ISIS? Is it because I'm Muslim?
I am naturalized citizen, I love all people except the racists and the bigots...I do love hard working legal and illegal immigrants a little extra though


----------



## P@triot

Unkotare said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> The court said nothing about repeal.
> 
> 
> 
> The court doesn’t handle repeal, snowflake. Good grief are you confused as hell right now. Congress handles repeal. And they can change existing laws at _any_ moment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You brought up the term, genius.
Click to expand...

But I didn’t claim it applies to the court now, did I? _Stupid_.


----------



## P@triot

Unkotare said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> .... there is nothing “honorable” about slavery......
> 
> 
> 
> Or watching people die who you could help, which is why Americans don't do that.
Click to expand...

We outlawed slavery. Deal with it.


----------



## BrokeLoser

Issa said:


> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Issa said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny how those who hate immigrants legal or illegal are those who don't live them.
> We in blue states love the diversity and the hard working immigrants. They all come here for a better life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEGATIVE...you “love” them because you are one of them....hahaha.
> You’re not fooling anybody iSiS.
> Remember, drug addicts want drugs legal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What makes me ISIS? Is it because I'm Muslim?
> I am naturalized citizen, I love all people except the racists and the bigots...I do love hard working legal and illegal immigrants a little extra though
Click to expand...


I call bullshit...if you were truly naturalized you would know to respect and follow our laws and you would not support those who do not...PERIOD!


----------



## Issa

BrokeLoser said:


> Issa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Issa said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny how those who hate immigrants legal or illegal are those who don't live them.
> We in blue states love the diversity and the hard working immigrants. They all come here for a better life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEGATIVE...you “love” them because you are one of them....hahaha.
> You’re not fooling anybody iSiS.
> Remember, drug addicts want drugs legal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What makes me ISIS? Is it because I'm Muslim?
> I am naturalized citizen, I love all people except the racists and the bigots...I do love hard working legal and illegal immigrants a little extra though
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I call bullshit...if you were truly naturalized you would know to respect and follow our laws and you would not support those who do not...PERIOD!
Click to expand...

I'm not like Trump, I dont lie. 
If we wanna follow the law of the land, you and your ancestors should be kicked out of the US for murdering the natives and stealing their land.


----------



## BrokeLoser

Issa said:


> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Issa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Issa said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny how those who hate immigrants legal or illegal are those who don't live them.
> We in blue states love the diversity and the hard working immigrants. They all come here for a better life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEGATIVE...you “love” them because you are one of them....hahaha.
> You’re not fooling anybody iSiS.
> Remember, drug addicts want drugs legal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What makes me ISIS? Is it because I'm Muslim?
> I am naturalized citizen, I love all people except the racists and the bigots...I do love hard working legal and illegal immigrants a little extra though
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I call bullshit...if you were truly naturalized you would know to respect and follow our laws and you would not support those who do not...PERIOD!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not like Trump, I dont lie.
> If we wanna follow the law of the land, you and your ancestors should be kicked out of the US for murdering the natives and stealing their land.
Click to expand...


Yep, confirmed...you’re definitely not legal.
You also don’t know shit about US history. There was no “law of the land” when the British conquered this nation...the law was; the strongest army takes what they want. The U.S. Constitution became the “the law of the land” in 1789...you’d know this if you were a naturalized citizen as you claim to be.
You should thank God the British took this land....imagine the shithole it would have became if it were built by the Spanish or Native Americans. You wouldn’t be able to get that free shit you’re scamming now...right?
Stop with the fraud and come clean.


----------



## Issa

BrokeLoser said:


> Issa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Issa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Issa said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny how those who hate immigrants legal or illegal are those who don't live them.
> We in blue states love the diversity and the hard working immigrants. They all come here for a better life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEGATIVE...you “love” them because you are one of them....hahaha.
> You’re not fooling anybody iSiS.
> Remember, drug addicts want drugs legal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What makes me ISIS? Is it because I'm Muslim?
> I am naturalized citizen, I love all people except the racists and the bigots...I do love hard working legal and illegal immigrants a little extra though
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I call bullshit...if you were truly naturalized you would know to respect and follow our laws and you would not support those who do not...PERIOD!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not like Trump, I dont lie.
> If we wanna follow the law of the land, you and your ancestors should be kicked out of the US for murdering the natives and stealing their land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep, confirmed...you’re definitely not legal.
> You also don’t know shit about US history. There was no “law of the land” when the British conquered this nation...the law was; the strongest army takes what they want. The U.S. Constitution became the “the law of the land” in 1789...you’d know this if you were a naturalized citizen as you claim to be.
> You should thank God the British took this land....imagine the shithole it would have became if it were built by the Spanish or Native Americans. You wouldn’t be able to get that free shit you’re scamming now...right?
> Stop with the fraud and come clean.
Click to expand...

History says the whites killed millions and stole their land. Why you arguing about this fact? Too gruesome ?
Latinos are gonna be the majority you better be nice to them.


----------



## irosie91

Issa said:


> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Issa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Issa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> NEGATIVE...you “love” them because you are one of them....hahaha.
> You’re not fooling anybody iSiS.
> Remember, drug addicts want drugs legal.
> 
> 
> 
> What makes me ISIS? Is it because I'm Muslim?
> I am naturalized citizen, I love all people except the racists and the bigots...I do love hard working legal and illegal immigrants a little extra though
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I call bullshit...if you were truly naturalized you would know to respect and follow our laws and you would not support those who do not...PERIOD!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not like Trump, I dont lie.
> If we wanna follow the law of the land, you and your ancestors should be kicked out of the US for murdering the natives and stealing their land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep, confirmed...you’re definitely not legal.
> You also don’t know shit about US history. There was no “law of the land” when the British conquered this nation...the law was; the strongest army takes what they want. The U.S. Constitution became the “the law of the land” in 1789...you’d know this if you were a naturalized citizen as you claim to be.
> You should thank God the British took this land....imagine the shithole it would have became if it were built by the Spanish or Native Americans. You wouldn’t be able to get that free shit you’re scamming now...right?
> Stop with the fraud and come clean.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> History says the whites killed millions and stole their land. Why you arguing about this fact? Too gruesome ?
> Latinos are gonna be the majority you better be nice to them.
Click to expand...


how are you defining  "whites"  ??        latinos are not  'whites' ???       arabs?      Persians?         how do
you define  "land theft"    ?


----------



## TNHarley

Unkotare said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 2. Mandatory e-verify for ..... living quarters
> 3. They get nothing. Not schooling, ...... healthcare (even turn them down at the ER. Sometimes actual solutions are harsh) they get NOTHING.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never happen. Any practical ideas?
Click to expand...

I know I know. This is America. Actual solutions are irrational.


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## TNHarley

Unkotare said:


> The Supreme Court has already ruled on education.
> 
> The nonsense about housing is unenforceable.
> 
> The idea of hospitals allowing the sick to die in the ER without helping them is too absurd to merit consideration.


You can send things back to the SC with proper arguments. Pretty sure, it wouldnt be that hard with honest judges.
Why is it not enforceable?
It isnt absurd. Cut of all incentive.


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## TNHarley

Issa said:


> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Issa said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny how those who hate immigrants legal or illegal are those who don't live them.
> We in blue states love the diversity and the hard working immigrants. They all come here for a better life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEGATIVE...you “love” them because you are one of them....hahaha.
> You’re not fooling anybody iSiS.
> Remember, drug addicts want drugs legal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What makes me ISIS? Is it because I'm Muslim?
> I am naturalized citizen, I love all people except the racists and the bigots...I do love hard working legal and illegal immigrants a little extra though
Click to expand...

So you are a bigot yourself?
Idiot.


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## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> _Everything_ is enforceable. ...
> 
> 
> 
> Again, impractical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Enforcing the law is “impractical” in your mind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You big-government liberals may want a federal agent stationed in every room of every building in the nation, but you'd run out of black shirts far short of the mark.
Click to expand...

.


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