# A case for securing our borders



## Navy1960 (Oct 28, 2008)

There have been many examples recently of why our borders need to be attended to with more vigor than the usual election year talk. I thought I would add one more reason.

Phoenix  On The J.D Hayworth show on 550 KFYI, Mark Spencer, President of The Phoenix Law Enforcement Association, dropped a bombshell when he said that on Sunday night/early Monday morning, a group of at least 5 men, invaded a home, shot 50-100 rounds, killing a man, and planned to ambush Phoenix police officers if needed. 

 Subsequent information from the suspects JD (Hayworth) revealed that yes they were indeed planning ambushing our guys (police) out there, but the only reason they did not was because they failed to manage their ammunition, Spencer said.

The men were in full tactical gear wearing black boots, military pants, as well as AR-15 guns, ballistic helmets while also donning Phoenix Police Raid Shirts.

They admitted, at least one did, they were Mexican military and they were coming into the United States with full tactical gear to conduct raids and home invasions on whether it be drug dealers or stash houses, Spencer added. 

Documents and internal memos confirm this information along with Spencers interview.

 At least two more suspects are still at large. 

IMO it's high time that our borders are  and the immigration issue is attended to in a professional manner, before even more Americans  have to suffer.


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## DManInAZ (Oct 28, 2008)

It appears that ICE is refuting the claim that they are Mexican Military.

KFYI - "The Valley's Talk Station"


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## Chris (Oct 29, 2008)

Bring the troops home and put them on the Mexican border.

I am not kidding.

Our porous border is a much bigger security threat than 50 guys in a cave in Pakistan.


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## DiveCon (Oct 29, 2008)

Chris said:


> Bring the troops home and put them on the Mexican border.
> 
> I am not kidding.
> 
> Our porous border is a much bigger security threat than 50 guys in a cave in Pakistan.


posse comitatus

Posse Comitatus Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## editec (Oct 29, 2008)

chris said:


> bring The Troops Home And Put Them On The Mexican Border.
> 
> I Am Not Kidding.
> 
> Our Porous Border Is A Much Bigger Security Threat Than 50 Guys In A Cave In Pakistan.


 
_yes!_


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## WillowTree (Oct 29, 2008)

Chris said:


> Bring the troops home and put them on the Mexican border.
> 
> I am not kidding.
> 
> Our porous border is a much bigger security threat than 50 guys in a cave in Pakistan.


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## Luissa (Oct 29, 2008)

Navy1960 said:


> There have been many examples recently of why our borders need to be attended to with more vigor than the usual election year talk. I thought I would add one more reason.
> 
> Phoenix &#8211; On The J.D Hayworth show on 550 KFYI, Mark Spencer, President of The Phoenix Law Enforcement Association, dropped a bombshell when he said that on Sunday night/early Monday morning, a group of at least 5 men, invaded a home, shot 50-100 rounds, killing a man, and planned to ambush Phoenix police officers if needed.
> 
> ...


I read somewhere they are having a big drug war down there, and they have been finding groups of men decapitated especially near Chinicha(spelled wrong I am sure) and that area because it is like a drug highway from Columbia and then up to the US. I am not surprised it has made it to the US and I also heard they raided a cartel in Jaurez I believe, they are probably in a power struggle now!


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## indago (Oct 29, 2008)

We've been raided by MEXICO before...


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## Navy1960 (Oct 29, 2008)

DManInAZ said:


> It appears that ICE is refuting the claim that they are Mexican Military.
> 
> KFYI - "The Valley's Talk Station"



I submit DMan it really doesn't matter if they were members of the Mexican Military or  not, the very fact they were geared up as they were  was a strong case for securing the border.  I suspect with all the drug wars over  territory over the border and smuggling, these guys were most likely members of some gang that was in volved on one of the two of those enterprises.  However, thats just speculation, again it doesn't matter as the mere fact these men showed a willingness to do more than  just pull out your everyday glock 23 and go to work, shows a need for addressing our border problems.


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## Navy1960 (Oct 29, 2008)

Luissa27 said:


> I read somewhere they are having a big drug war down there, and they have been finding groups of men decapitated especially near Chinicha(spelled wrong I am sure) and that area because it is like a drug highway from Columbia and then up to the US. I am not surprised it has made it to the US and I also heard they raided a cartel in Jaurez I believe, they are probably in a power struggle now!



Your correct Luissa , there are wars in Mexico over  territory and drugs going on all across the border states.  Kidnapping has become a cottage industry there and it won't be long before that industry will become epidemic in this country as well. Again, my contention is the borders need to be attended too with the same vigor that we would as a nation look after any national security issue and not keep using it as an election year excuse to draw votes.


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## Luissa (Oct 29, 2008)

Navy1960 said:


> I submit DMan it really doesn't matter if they were members of the Mexican Military or  not, the very fact they were geared up as they were  was a strong case for securing the border.  I suspect with all the drug wars over  territory over the border and smuggling, these guys were most likely members of some gang that was in volved on one of the two of those enterprises.  However, thats just speculation, again it doesn't matter as the mere fact these men showed a willingness to do more than  just pull out your everyday glock 23 and go to work, shows a need for addressing our border problems.


You are right on that! I think they have an all out drug war right now! But the fact they did not plan to well I would say they are low men of the cartel. For one I have heard they have been having problems moving drugs from Columbia through Mexico towards the US. Plus also with them busting a big cartel recently one has to think that was more to take out the competition near the border. They need to be worrying about these guys more then some migrant worker crossing the border.


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## Navy1960 (Oct 29, 2008)

indago said:


> We've been raided by MEXICO before...



Thats very true, and the US Military did send an expedition to go after Pancho Villa as well after his little jaunt into New Mexico. 

In 1916 he raided Columbus, New Mexico. This act provoked the unsuccessful Punitive Expedition commanded by General John J. Pershing, which failed to capture Villa after a year in pursuit. Villa and his supporters, known as Villistas, employed tactics such as propaganda and firing squads against his enemies, and seized hacienda land for distribution to peasants and soldiers. He robbed and commandeered trains, and, like the other Revolutionary generals, printed fiat money to pay for his cause. Villa's generalship was noted for the speed of its movement of troops (by railroad), the use of an elite cavalry unit called Los dorados ("the golden ones") (for which he earned the nickname El Centauro del Norte (The Centaur of the North)), artillery attacks, and recruitment of the enlisted soldiers of defeated enemy units. Many of Villa's tactics and strategies were adopted by later 20th century revolutionaries.


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## editec (Oct 29, 2008)

Blackjack Pershing couldn't find his ass if somebody had given him a map.

Good thing the German lines didn't move or he'd_ still_ be in Europe trying to find the Hun.

Villa is still considered one of the brightest moments in Mexicos sad  history.


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## DManInAZ (Oct 29, 2008)

Navy1960 said:


> I submit DMan it really doesn't matter if they were members of the Mexican Military or  not, the very fact they were geared up as they were  was a strong case for securing the border.  I suspect with all the drug wars over  territory over the border and smuggling, these guys were most likely members of some gang that was in volved on one of the two of those enterprises.  However, thats just speculation, again it doesn't matter as the mere fact these men showed a willingness to do more than  just pull out your everyday glock 23 and go to work, shows a need for addressing our border problems.



I was just noting that this report existed. I agree. I think we should line the border with infrared, motion activated, machine guns similar to this --> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in6IJCngYng]YouTube - The Power of a Helicopter Machine Gun[/ame]


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## ABikerSailor (Oct 29, 2008)

You want to secure the border?  Simple.....here's how......

First, ever 25-50 miles, have a border station barracks equipped with 10-25 men each.  For the first outfitting of the stations, man them up with returning Iraq vets, I mean....they've got the security experience already, and know how to patrol.

Set the barracks up with a rotation of 2 - 3 crews/station.  Let them work 1 week on, 1 week of (port/starboard rotation), or 1 on, 2 off (3 section duty).

Every 5th border station or so, have that barracks equipped with a Predator drone (you realize they can patrol up to 250 miles).  When the drone sees activity on the border, deploy agents from the closest station to investigate.  Every so often, have the drones outfitted as one of the Reaper type drones (the ones with weapons pods), so that if back up is required, it can be sent quickly.

After the initial setup is laid out with returning troops, tell the immigrants that if they do a 4 year hitch on the Border Patrol, they will be given full citizenship.  During that 4 year hitch, they will be required to be fluent in English, as well as learn our laws and political system.  Off-duty time can be used for education.

Now, the really good thing about this plan, is that we have the manpower (returning vets), we have the equipment, all we need is the political will.

But.....ain't gonna happen.....Bush Jr. is too deep in NAFTA.


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## Navy1960 (Oct 29, 2008)

ABikerSailor said:


> You want to secure the border?  Simple.....here's how......
> 
> First, ever 25-50 miles, have a border station barracks equipped with 10-25 men each.  For the first outfitting of the stations, man them up with returning Iraq vets, I mean....they've got the security experience already, and know how to patrol.
> 
> ...



That is the key isn't it, political will it's like I said before Sailor, you have too many people willing to use this as a campaign issue year after year to do much about it.


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## DiveCon (Oct 29, 2008)

ABikerSailor said:


> You want to secure the border? Simple.....here's how......
> 
> First, ever 25-50 miles, have a border station barracks equipped with 10-25 men each. For the first outfitting of the stations, man them up with returning Iraq vets, I mean....they've got the security experience already, and know how to patrol.
> 
> ...


only one problem with that

Obama isnt bringing the troops home

oh, and if you think he is any more for securing our borders than McCain, you are delusional


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## ABikerSailor (Oct 29, 2008)

McStupid is more for open borders than Obama.

Remember, when it comes to NAFTA, McStupid follows Bush Jr.

And.....DiveCon.....if you had bothered to look, we've been at war for a lot longer than a year or two, there are vets from Iraq right now, living in the street, who would be grateful for a job where they could feel like they belonged to something.  Trust me dude, there are already more than enough returned vets to get started.


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## DiveCon (Oct 29, 2008)

ABikerSailor said:


> McStupid is more for open borders than Obama.
> 
> Remember, when it comes to NAFTA, McStupid follows Bush Jr.
> 
> And.....DiveCon.....if you had bothered to look, we've been at war for a lot longer than a year or two, there are vets from Iraq right now, living in the street, who would be grateful for a job where they could feel like they belonged to something.  Trust me dude, there are already more than enough returned vets to get started.


ah, so you are talking about those no longer in the military


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## editec (Oct 29, 2008)

Navy1960 said:


> That is the key isn't it, political will it's like I said before Sailor, you have too many people willing to use this as a campaign issue year after year to do much about it.


 

Who?


Ted K and Bush II were on the same page about illegal immigration, remember?


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## ABikerSailor (Oct 29, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> ah, so you are talking about those no longer in the military



What part of "vet" do you not get dude?  Are you that dumb?  "Vet" is short for "veteran" which means someone who HAS been in.

And yes, why not employ them?  They've already proven their dedication to this country by being willing to go overseas and get shot in a fucked up war.


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## DiveCon (Oct 29, 2008)

ABikerSailor said:


> What part of "vet" do you not get dude? Are you that dumb? "Vet" is short for "veteran" which means someone who HAS been in.
> 
> And yes, why not employ them? They've already proven their dedication to this country by being willing to go overseas and get shot in a fucked up war.


i'm on the same page with you on this issue
you should stop attacking for a change

but neither McCain nor Obama will do this
you really need to understand that this issue is already lost for this election cycle


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## Ravi (Oct 29, 2008)

Just curious. Did these people turn out to be illegals? It isn't clear from the articles posted.


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## Navy1960 (Oct 29, 2008)

editec said:


> Who?
> 
> 
> Ted K and Bush II were on the same page about illegal immigration, remember?



I would not know where to being with that question edit, you have people on both sides of this issue, One side I like to call the round em all up side, and the other side I like to call the let em all in side. The interesting thing here is that it all turns into talk and no action.  Look at the funding for the border fence if you think I am kidding, while the funding is in place how much of the fence has actually been built and you even have some towns saying they won't build the fence because they rely too much on immigrant labor. Again, my case is a very simple one, and that is is securing the borders a National Security issue, and if so, then give it the attention it deserves.


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## ABikerSailor (Oct 29, 2008)

Navy1960 said:


> I would not know where to being with that question edit, you have people on both sides of this issue, One side I like to call the round em all up side, and the other side I like to call the let em all in side. The interesting thing here is that it all turns into talk and no action.  Look at the funding for the border fence if you think I am kidding, while the funding is in place how much of the fence has actually been built and you even have some towns saying they won't build the fence because they rely too much on immigrant labor. Again, my case is a very simple one, and that is is securing the borders a National Security issue, and if so, then give it the attention it deserves.



I think this lame attempt to placate the American people yielded around 700 miles of fence for funding, and around 200 miles have been built.

That's the figures I heard.


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## Navy1960 (Oct 29, 2008)

Ravi said:


> Just curious. Did these people turn out to be illegals? It isn't clear from the articles posted.



Yes they were  Ravi, as I mentioned in an earlier post, IMO these people and many like them are involved in all these drug wars that are going on just south of the border. It would not surpise me to find out they had some connection in Phoenix with drugs at all.


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## ABikerSailor (Oct 29, 2008)

Navy1960 said:


> Yes they were  Ravi, as I mentioned in an earlier post, IMO these people and many like them are involved in all these drug wars that are going on just south of the border. It would not surpise me to find out they had some connection in Phoenix with drugs at all.



Remember a little dude just a short while back named Cole Puffenbarger?  He was kidnapped by Hispanics dressed up as police officers, for things that his grandfather did to cheat drug cartels.

Fortunately, he was found safe in Las Vegas.

I kinda think there is a drug connection also.


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## Navy1960 (Oct 29, 2008)

ABikerSailor said:


> Remember a little dude just a short while back named Cole Puffenbarger?  He was kidnapped by Hispanics dressed up as police officers, for things that his grandfather did to cheat drug cartels.
> 
> Fortunately, he was found safe in Las Vegas.
> 
> I kinda think there is a drug connection also.



I do remember that Sailor,  I also believe that if the borders are not secured sooner the problems with police officers being killed, kidnappings and other things like you saw with  Cole are going to keep increasing.


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## Ravi (Oct 29, 2008)

Okay, thanks Navy. I couldn't find anything about it on google.

Not to beat a dead horse, but wouldn't it be cheaper to legalize drugs?


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## Navy1960 (Oct 29, 2008)

Ravi said:


> Okay, thanks Navy. I couldn't find anything about it on google.
> 
> Not to beat a dead horse, but wouldn't it be cheaper to legalize drugs?



No and  I will tell you why, IMO to legalize drugs while making it easily available for all it would also increase the number of people using drugs as well. This would have the effect of transferring all the costs currently that are spent on legal issues to medical issues, and rebuilding the terrible destruction that drugs bring on lives and families.  Not to mention the increased crime associated with it, like property crimes to acquire drugs etc. So no IMHO to legalize drugs is a terrible idea that would only make it legitimate to destroy more American lives and families.


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## Gunny (Oct 29, 2008)

ABikerSailor said:


> What part of "vet" do you not get dude?  Are you that dumb?  "Vet" is short for "veteran" which means someone who HAS been in.
> 
> And yes, why not employ them?  They've already proven their dedication to this country by being willing to go overseas and get shot in a fucked up war.



Get over yourself dude.  NEITHER party is going to do shit and yours is as knee deep in guilt as the other.  Notice how fast everytime this becomes an issue the GOVERNMENT -- not the Dems nor Republicans solely -- get it OFF the table?  

He who come down on illegal immigration will alienate the Hispanic American vote, so NEITHER side is going to do jack shit.  You blab about Bush and McCain, but your sock puppet ain't about going to do shit about it either so STFU with the partisan bullshit, huh?


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## Gunny (Oct 29, 2008)

I'd like to add that whoever said putting returning combat troops on the border (I didn't go back and look) might want to reconsider that.  Combat troops aren't cops no matter how hard you try to make them do it.  When in doubt, they are going to unload the mag.

I personally have no problem with that considering we are being unlawfully invaded by criminals, but we all KNOW which folks of the bleeding heart variety would be wailing like banshees until they were all hounded and put in prison for doing their jobs.

And what vet would WANT that job?  How many years are those two Arizona cops in jail for because they bent some illegal's eyelashes?


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## Luissa (Oct 29, 2008)

Gunny said:


> I'd like to add that whoever said putting returning combat troops on the border (I didn't go back and look) might want to reconsider that.  Combat troops aren't cops no matter how hard you try to make them do it.  When in doubt, they are going to unload the mag.
> 
> I personally have no problem with that considering we are being unlawfully invaded by criminals, but we all KNOW which folks of the bleeding heart variety would be wailing like banshees until they were all hounded and put in prison for doing their jobs.
> 
> And what vet would WANT that job?  How many years are those two Arizona cops in jail for because they bent some illegal's eyelashes?


I might be wrong but don't military men in at least the army patrol the texas border. I remember my ex talking about going there for six months to train for border patrol before he went to the DMZ. And I am pretty sure my friend Chris is also in the Army spent sometime on the border in Texas, he might actually still be there.

And do you know exactly who Gary Owen is, didn't they have units or camps whatever you call it named after him in Vietnam and Korea?


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## Navy1960 (Oct 29, 2008)

Luissa27 said:


> I might be wrong but don't military men in at least the army patrol the texas border. I remember my ex talking about going there for six months to train for border patrol before he went to the DMZ. And I am pretty sure my friend Chris is also in the Army spent sometime on the border in Texas, he might actually still be there.
> 
> And do you know exactly who Gary Owen is, didn't they have units or camps whatever you call it named after him in Vietnam and Korea?



WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush, trying to build support for a major overhaul of the nation's tattered immigration laws, said Monday night he would order as many as 6,000 National Guard troops to secure the U.S. border with Mexico and urged Congress to give millions of illegal immigrants a chance at citizenship.

"We do not yet have full control of the border and I am determined to change that," the president said in a 17-minute prime-time address from the Oval Office.

Bush gave strong support to a plan that would give many of the 12 million illegal immigrants in the United States an eventual path to possible citizenship -- a move derided by some conservatives in his own Republican Party as amnesty. He rejected that term.

"It is neither wise nor realistic to round up millions of people, many with deep roots in the United States and send them across the border," he said. "There is a rational middle ground between granting an automatic path to citizenship for every illegal immigrant and a program of mass deportation."

The Guard troops would mostly serve two-week stints before rotating out of the assignment, so keeping the force level at 6,000 over the course of a year could require up to 156,000 troops.

Still, Bush insisted, "The United States is not going to militarize the southern border."

The White House wouldn't say how much the deployments would cost, but said the troops would paid for as part of $1.9 billion being requested from Congress to supplement border enforcement this year.


On Mexican Border, U.S. Military Low-Key : NPR

National Guard Luissa and here is the answer to your other question.

The 7th Cavalry Regiment is a United States Army cavalry regiment, whose lineage traces back to the mid-19th century. Its official nickname is "Garry Owen", in honor of the Irish drinking song Garryowen that was adopted as its march tune.


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## Gunny (Oct 29, 2008)

Luissa27 said:


> I might be wrong but don't military men in at least the army patrol the texas border. I remember my ex talking about going there for six months to train for border patrol before he went to the DMZ. And I am pretty sure my friend Chris is also in the Army spent sometime on the border in Texas, he might actually still be there.
> 
> And do you know exactly who Gary Owen is, didn't they have units or camps whatever you call it named after him in Vietnam and Korea?



Garryowen is a geographical location in Ireland.  It's also a tune adopted by the 7th Cavalry as it's official song in the 1870's. It became the offical song of the 1st Cavalry Division in 1981.

Legend of the Garryowen

So it's not a "who."

Reagan at one time had some Marines deployed with the Border Patrol, manning area recon positions.  I heard some talk of Bush putting the Guard on the border but don't if he did or not.  

Bush has so confused the command structure of Guard and Federal military it's not funny.  The Guard actually belongs to the Governor of the State and used to be, the President had to ask formal permission to federalize it.  Bush signed something a few years ago that basically said he can take them if he wants, Governor or no.

A decision I did not agree with.


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## Luissa (Oct 29, 2008)

Gunny said:


> Garryowen is a geographical location in Ireland.  It's also a tune adopted by the 7th Cavalry as it's official song in the 1870's. It became the offical song of the 1st Cavalry Division in 1981.
> 
> Legend of the Garryowen
> 
> ...


Well that would explain it my friend is in the Guard!And on the border when he hasn't been to Irag which he has twice now!
And as for the Gary Owen, thanks and my ex was in the 7th Cav!

And I would have to agree with you on Bush! ANd I think they add support but beef up border patrol which is what they did in Washington which is the most patroled part of the US/ Canadian border due to drug trafficing.They for one added a lot more officers using horses and ATV's. And now you hardly see BC bud and our border I am sure with the mountains it is probably alittle harder to patrol.


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## DiveCon (Oct 29, 2008)

Gunny said:


> Garryowen is a geographical location in Ireland. It's also a tune adopted by the 7th Cavalry as it's official song in the 1870's. It became the offical song of the 1st Cavalry Division in 1981.
> 
> Legend of the Garryowen
> 
> ...


 but part of the fault of that has to go to Clinton and the congress during Clintons time
they so gutted the military the guard had to be used


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## Ravi (Oct 30, 2008)

Gunny said:


> Garryowen is a geographical location in Ireland.  It's also a tune adopted by the 7th Cavalry as it's official song in the 1870's. It became the offical song of the 1st Cavalry Division in 1981.
> 
> Legend of the Garryowen
> 
> ...


Hey, me too!

And btw, I'm pretty sure using the federal military along the border is unconstitutional unless we are at war with those on the other side of the border. And last time I checked, we aren't at war with Mexico.


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## editec (Oct 30, 2008)

Navy1960 said:


> I would not know where to being with that question edit, you have people on both sides of this issue, One side I like to call the round em all up side, and the other side I like to call the let em all in side. The interesting thing here is that it all turns into talk and no action. Look at the funding for the border fence if you think I am kidding, while the funding is in place how much of the fence has actually been built and you even have some towns saying they won't build the fence because they rely too much on immigrant labor. Again, my case is a very simple one, and that is is securing the borders a National Security issue, and if so, then give it the attention it deserves.


 
Understood, NAV.

I was responding to some idiot partisan who was attempting to make the case that the BORDER DEFENCE issue was a liberal V conservatives issue.

We BOTH know that the RNC and DNC are BOTH big  supporters of FFREE TRADE AND illegal immigrants coming into this nation , yes?

Hence my continuing complaint that there is essantially no difference in parties when it comes to ECONOMIC issues.

They both seem intent on detroying the working  class, in my opinion.


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## editec (Oct 30, 2008)

Gunny said:


> I'd like to add that whoever said putting returning combat troops on the border (I didn't go back and look) might want to reconsider that. Combat troops aren't cops no matter how hard you try to make them do it. When in doubt, they are going to unload the mag.
> 
> But the surge is working because why?  Because they're COPS in Iraq.
> 
> ...


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## ABikerSailor (Oct 30, 2008)

Gunny said:


> I'd like to add that whoever said putting returning combat troops on the border (I didn't go back and look) might want to reconsider that.  Combat troops aren't cops no matter how hard you try to make them do it.  When in doubt, they are going to unload the mag.
> 
> I personally have no problem with that considering we are being unlawfully invaded by criminals, but we all KNOW which folks of the bleeding heart variety would be wailing like banshees until they were all hounded and put in prison for doing their jobs.
> 
> And what vet would WANT that job?  How many years are those two Arizona cops in jail for because they bent some illegal's eyelashes?



Wait a minute Gunny, I'm the one that posted that idea.  However, considering that the government (as well as quite a few others) are saying that what we are doing over there is a form of police action (been quite a few people bitching about that on both sides), why in the hell WOULDN'T they be qualified for Border Patrol?  Most of what we're doing in Baghdad is pretty much patrolling and police type actions, so, where's the problem?  And no, most of the people I've served with would rather find out IF they needed to unload the mag.

And.....what the hell is wrong with using returning vets?  They've got experience, have been tested, and know what they're doing!  There are quite a few vets out there who are homeless because they can't find a job, and that is mostly because people who are against the war won't hire them.

Nope...I stand by my idea.  

But.....you're right about one thing.....with the way that Bush Jr. has swiss cheesed the borders (remember when the president of Mexico was campaigning in Utah a while back), as well as the policies that have been put in place since then, border security will not become a reality until after the elections.  You are correct on that one.

And.....I'm an Independent, so I blame BOTH sides for the fiasco.


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## deste23 (Oct 30, 2008)

How many of you that want the border secured have voted or will vote for Obama or McCain???? If you did or will then your action makes no sense at all.Both Obama and McCain are for amnesty for all illegals and not for securing the border.The only presidential candidate that is 100% against amnesty and will secure the border by using armed USA soldiers is Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution Party.He is also the only candidate that will pardon Ramos and Compean and is for repealing the birthright law. He is a true and patriotic American.As John Wayne used to say: "I see you talk the talk;but do you walk the walk?"


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## DiveCon (Oct 30, 2008)

deste23 said:


> How many of you that want the border secured have voted or will vote for Obama or McCain???? If you did or will then your action makes no sense at all.Both Obama and McCain are for amnesty for all illegals and not for securing the border.The only presidential candidate that is 100% against amnesty and will secure the border by using armed USA soldiers is Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution Party.He is also the only candidate that will pardon Ramos and Compean and is for repealing the birthright law. He is a true and patriotic American.As John Wayne used to say: "I see you talk the talk;but do you walk the walk?"


Chuck Baldwin has a ZERO chance of winning
it will be either Obama or McCain
i will vote for McCain even though i totally disagree with his position on the border


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## deste23 (Oct 30, 2008)

I believe it was Albert Einstein who said: Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. The two parties will never secure the border and they will enact amnesty and our country will be lost!!!


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## PIM (Oct 31, 2008)

I have said over and over again, build an electric fence.
250 mega watt plants can be built in less than 8 months.....not only will this create jobs for those building the plants, it will create jobs for those who would work as operators,a plant this size would employe about 50 full time employees. The cost to build and run an operation like this would be more cost effective than paying for the cost of the illegal.
1 plant every 200 miles would pump enough juice to keep the fence very HOT, and these plants would also be useful to local ranchers and farmers...and smaller towns for power production......The fence could be built like the ones in Jurasic Park..........sound crazy? Not when you think of the tax dollars it would generate and the savings on the cost of the illegal aliens.......................


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## Sovereignty (Oct 31, 2008)

One thing open borders will insure is when Mexico declares war against the United States their army will already be here.


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## Mom Marie 1946 (Oct 31, 2008)

editec said:


> _yes!_



No


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## Sovereignty (Oct 31, 2008)

It is our right as a country to exert supreme political and lawful authority over the territory under our control. 

Those who don't like it should leave our country.  Accept the country that accepted you!  Legal or Leave, come the right way or don't come at all.  The Latino immigrants don't want to Assimilate they want to take over!


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## Ravi (Oct 31, 2008)

heh, you guys are just spoofers of anti-immigrant posters, right?


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## Sovereignty (Oct 31, 2008)

Ravi said:


> heh, you guys are just spoofers of anti-immigrant posters, right?



You Say That Like That Was A Bad Thing?

Ravi, You speak English after all.


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## ABikerSailor (Oct 31, 2008)

Interesting.......maybe the fence could be used to transmit power to various towns too?


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## DiveCon (Oct 31, 2008)

ABikerSailor said:


> Interesting.......maybe the fence could be used to transmit power to various towns too?


interesting, dual use
get the power companies to pay for its construction


thats quite an idea
also pass a law removing them from any7 liability


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## Sovereignty (Oct 31, 2008)

In Texas the fence is only in 12 mile increments.  A fence for 12 miles and then no fence for 12 miles.  Americans are protesting because their home are behind the fence.  The fence is not on the border but miles into the United States sovereignty.  Our government wouldn't make good ranchers, they'd build a 3 sided fence and wonder why the cows keep getting out.  All politicians should be horsewhipped!


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## PIM (Nov 1, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> interesting, dual use
> get the power companies to pay for its construction
> 
> 
> ...


With some tax incentives from local and state gov'ts........ But in the long run it will be something needed in those areas anyway.. The same plants could be used to power fencing.........very simple , no rocket scientist needed to figure this out.............The savings on the cost of illegal aliens...........I can not understand how our gov't can say these illegals are good for us, we have millions of unemployed citizens,I have see citizens get turned away at jobs, and the very same day an illegal hired...............


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## DManInAZ (Nov 1, 2008)

PIM said:


> I have said over and over again, build an electric fence.
> 250 mega watt plants can be built in less than 8 months.....not only will this create jobs for those building the plants, it will create jobs for those who would work as operators,a plant this size would employe about 50 full time employees. The cost to build and run an operation like this would be more cost effective than paying for the cost of the illegal.
> 1 plant every 200 miles would pump enough juice to keep the fence very HOT, and these plants would also be useful to local ranchers and farmers...and smaller towns for power production......The fence could be built like the ones in Jurasic Park..........sound crazy? Not when you think of the tax dollars it would generate and the savings on the cost of the illegal aliens.......................



Yeah, and an added plus would be that Sheriff Joe could feed "Fried Illegal" to the inmates in Tent City. Go Joe!


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## MrJim (Nov 11, 2008)

Time is Running Out for President to Free Border Agents

 Posted by Bobby Eberle
November 11, 2008 at 7:28 am 
>> Printer-Friendly Version

With a little over two months left in office, President Bush has the opportunity to right an incredible injustice. He has the constitutional power to pardon former Border Patrol Agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean. Unlike President Clinton in his last days in office, who used pardons as political pay-back, President Bush should step forward and grant freedom to these agents who were doing their job protecting America.

For those how haven't followed this case, Agents Ramos and Compean shot an illegal alien as he was fleeing back to the Mexican border. The illegal alien, Osvaldo Aldrete Davila, was in the process of smuggling approximately a million dollars worth of marijuana into the U.S. What happened next has set the stage for President Bush to take action in his closing days as president.


Rather than being commended for protecting America's borders, U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton decided to prosecute the agents. Sutton granted Davila immunity in exchange for testimony. Sutton said the agents "shot 15 times at an unarmed, fleeing man." Sutton also claims that the agents "decided to lie about it, cover it up, destroy the evidence, pick up all the shell casings and throw them away where we couldn't find them, destroy the crime scene and then file a false report."

In a statement issued in January, 2007, Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-CA) said that it was "irresponsible" to punish Agents Ramos and Compean with jail time.

"The Border Patrol is America's first line of defense against the constant and unrelenting efforts of drug and human smugglers to illegally enter the United States," said Congressman Hunter. "Agents Compean and Ramos fulfilled their responsibilities as Border Patrol agents and rightfully pursued a suspected and fleeing drug smuggler. It is irresponsible to punish them with jail time.

"The security situation on our Southern land border requires a strong law enforcement presence. This conviction demoralizes our nation's Border Patrol and sends a clear message that we are not serious about protecting our borders and enforcing our immigration laws."

Hunter's communications director, Joe Kasper, commented at the time that the facts of this case are "so nebulous" that the case represents a "severe injustice."

"Agents Ramos and Compean felt threatened and acted appropriately to apprehend the individual. At most, an administrative punishment is required but certainly not 11- and 12-year federal prison sentences."

As Ramos and Compean languish in prison, guess what happened to the illegal alien drug dealer... In November, 2007, Davila was arrested again for drug smuggling.

The Washington Times quotes T. J. Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council, as being critical with the timing of the indictment against Aldrete Davila.

"Osvaldo Aldrete Davila should have been prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for these felonies two years ago," said Mr. Bonner, whose group represents more than 12,000 Border Patrol agents. "This deliberate and unconscionable delay directly resulted in the wrongful incarceration of two innocent law-enforcement officers."

According to Drug Enforcement Administration documents obtained by The Times, DEA investigators believed they had sufficient evidence to indict Aldrete Davila in late 2005, but their requests to do so were denied by Mr. Sutton's office.

President Bush has the opportunity to correct the actions by Sutton and to set Ramos and Compean free! Contact President Bush and urge him to do the right thing. A presidential pardon will allow Ramos and Compean to return to their families. Join GOPUSA in sending a message to the president.

++ Click here to send a message to President Bush urging him to pardon Ramos and Compean

Please encourage your friends and associates to send a message as well. President Bush has only two months left to take action.


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## sealybobo (Jan 10, 2018)

Navy1960 said:


> There have been many examples recently of why our borders need to be attended to with more vigor than the usual election year talk. I thought I would add one more reason.
> 
> Phoenix  On The J.D Hayworth show on 550 KFYI, Mark Spencer, President of The Phoenix Law Enforcement Association, dropped a bombshell when he said that on Sunday night/early Monday morning, a group of at least 5 men, invaded a home, shot 50-100 rounds, killing a man, and planned to ambush Phoenix police officers if needed.
> 
> ...



OK maybe cons were against illegals back in 2008.  Funny because progressives agreed with you back then.  It was the main steam corporate democrats and republicans who loved flooding the market with cheap labor


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