# Not going to happen



## Tommy Tainant (Aug 18, 2016)

It is looking increasingly likely that Brexit will never happen

*“They say they don’t even know the right questions to ask when they finally begin bargaining with Europe,”*


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## Tehon (Aug 18, 2016)




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## Vastator (Aug 18, 2016)

Still can't let it go, huh? So sad... A grown man clinging to a failed dream...


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## xband (Aug 18, 2016)

Tommy Tainant said:


> It is looking increasingly likely that Brexit will never happen
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> *“They say they don’t even know the right questions to ask when they finally begin bargaining with Europe,”*



Why does the UK have to bargain with Europe? The English Channel separates England from Europe. The English still use the Pound and not the Euro. Two different peoples.


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## gtopa1 (Aug 18, 2016)

xband said:


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Try about fifty+ different peoples!!

Greg


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## xband (Aug 18, 2016)

gtopa1 said:


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## xband (Aug 18, 2016)

xband said:


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I change 'peoples' to 'mind sets'.


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## montelatici (Aug 18, 2016)

xband said:


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Well, to answer your question, the UK wants to bargain with the EU to maintain free access to the EU market of 450 or so million people.  As you imply, it may only be the English (and Welsh) that will need to bargain as the Scots will probably hightail it and the Northern Irish will merge with the Republic.  Or, are you a dummy and are confusing England with the UK?


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## xband (Aug 18, 2016)

montelatici said:


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I am a dummy and the only stupid question is the one not asked. I have never swam in the Atlantic Ocean but have swam in the Pacific Ocean. Folks on this side of the little pond see waterways as dividing lines.


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## montelatici (Aug 18, 2016)

The UK (formally the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland) consists of England, Wales, Scotland and  Northern Ireland.  Great Britain consists of England, Wales and Scotland. There is a waterway between Northern Ireland and Great Britain.  At the moment, it is not a dividing line with respect to the UK. Hope this helps.


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## gtopa1 (Aug 18, 2016)

montelatici said:


> The UK (formally the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland) consists of England, Wales, Scotland and  Northern Ireland.  Great Britain consists of England, Wales and Scotland. There is a waterway between Northern Ireland and Great Britain.  At the moment, it is not a dividing line with respect to the UK. Hope this helps.





> There is a waterway between Northern Ireland and Great Britain.



One day; we live in hope of a unified Ireland....peacefully OF COURSE!!!

Greg


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## StLucieBengal (Aug 18, 2016)

The longer they delay the quicker UKIP grabs more seats.   

The people want to leave and May should trigger it now and get it over with.


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## gipper (Aug 18, 2016)

...and here I thought the UK was a democracy.


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## montelatici (Aug 18, 2016)

Yes, the sooner Article 50 is triggered, the sooner Scotland can make its own deal with the EU and NI can merge with the Republic.


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## montelatici (Aug 18, 2016)

gipper said:


> ...and here I thought the UK was a democracy.



The UK is not a democracy.  What made you think that?


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## gipper (Aug 18, 2016)

montelatici said:


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Then why allow the people to vote?


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## montelatici (Aug 18, 2016)

gipper said:


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Citizens are allowed to vote in representative republics and constitutional monarchies.


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## Wyatt earp (Aug 18, 2016)

xband said:


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You never heard of the chunnel?


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## Tehon (Aug 18, 2016)

montelatici said:


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The referendum was direct democracy.


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## Tommy Tainant (Aug 18, 2016)

Tehon said:


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The referendum was not actually binding on the government.
I think that they would be foolish to ignore the result and I do not think that they will.

What will happen is that, as the negotiations progress , the stupidity of the vote will emerge and they will come back to the people again for confirmation.

The whole basis of the brexit case has now collapsed and been seen to be a pack of lies. It cant go through on this basis.


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## Tehon (Aug 18, 2016)

Tommy Tainant said:


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*The referendum was not actually binding on the government.*

Then what was the point?

It sounds to me like I can take comfort in the knowledge that Americans do not entirely have the market on stupidity cornered.


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## Bleipriester (Aug 18, 2016)

Tommy Tainant said:


> It is looking increasingly likely that Brexit will never happen
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> *“They say they don’t even know the right questions to ask when they finally begin bargaining with Europe,”*


Total incompetency. They must step down.


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## Tommy Tainant (Aug 18, 2016)

Tehon said:


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The government didnt want a referendum. It was held as a sop to keep the right wing of the tory party happy.

No steps were taken to prepare for a brexit vote. The new PM was a remainer and would just rather be rid of the whole mess.

They cant outright ignore the result as that would be a betrayal of the process.

However there is nothing to stop them going back for a vote to agree on the negotiated terms. In fact there is,in my view, an obligation to do so.

There are several hurdles for Brexit to jump yet.

Firstly parliament is the body that has to trigger brexit and not the government or the referendum.
The majority of MPs are remainers so they can control the process.

Secondly there is the Scottish issue. Scotland voted to remain. Mrs Sturgeon believes it gives her some sort of veto on brexit.

Its a mess. The government is looking at a brexit and losing Scotland or keeping Scotland and losing brexit. They dont want to lose Scotland because the queen wouldbe miffed.

What Mrs May wants in her heart of hearts is for the negotiations to prove so grisly that she has to go back to Parliament and state that the outcome cant be contemplated and that we need to vote again on it. That could mean a new referendum or even an election.


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## Tehon (Aug 18, 2016)

Tommy Tainant said:


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*
They cant outright ignore the result as that would be a betrayal of the process.*

At this point anything other than the fulfillment of the results should be viewed as a betrayal of the process.


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## Phoenall (Aug 18, 2016)

montelatici said:


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And which magic bean told you this. We just want to be allowed to police our borders and set our own laws. If the EU sets obstacles in the way of trade then they will find the same obstacles impeding their trade with the UK. We are already in talks with India, US, Russia, China etc. that could open up massive markets for our goods.

 As for your claims can the Irish and Scots afford the split like that, they would find themselves bereft of everything from jobs to homes when Britain claims what is theirs legally.


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## Phoenall (Aug 18, 2016)

Tommy Tainant said:


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 Being part of the UK their vote went into the pot, it was not counted seperately, and the margin was very close. Scotland cant decide for itself as they signed a treaty giving sovereignty to the British parliament. It would cost them more than they have to go against that treaty. I would advise you and Sturgeon to read it carefully


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## Tommy Tainant (Aug 18, 2016)

Tehon said:


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People voted on a set of promises. If those promises are seen to be false then they should be given the opportunity to ratify this or not. 

It cuts both ways, if they can cut a wonder deal then remainers would back it.The margin of people voting out will grow and the country would become more unified.
Everyone is a winner.


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## theHawk (Aug 18, 2016)

Poor Tommy-girl, still at home scared in his basement sitting in a puddle of his own piss at the thought of not being in the EU.


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## StLucieBengal (Aug 18, 2016)

Tommy Tainant said:


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The ref was promised to keep UKIP from taking seats from the conservatives.    If they go back UKIP will just gain seats and now Old Laboir voters are moving towards UKIP as well.


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## Tommy Tainant (Aug 18, 2016)

StLucieBengal said:


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There are a lot of tories who should be in ukip. It wont happen now because ukip has peaked.


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## StLucieBengal (Aug 18, 2016)

Tommy Tainant said:


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Not from what I keep reading but even if they have peaked ....  If May messes around with not triggering article 50 it will just refuel UKIPpers and drive the party forward.    

Seems Labour is in the biggest trouble right now but the conservatives could be headed that way as well.     Leadsom should have been the PM and they would have avoided all this nonsense.


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## Tommy Tainant (Aug 18, 2016)

StLucieBengal said:


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Labour is in transition. half a million members want Corbyn but 200 MPs dont. If they cant support a socialist manifesto they will be deselected. My guess is they will set up something on their own account.
Ukips backer was prevented from standing for leader and is hinting about setting up another party. Their leadership candidates are mediocrities and there is a huge amount of in fighting between factions.
There is an old tory faction who are relatively sensible and professional. And then there are the characters who drifted in from the BNP, National Front and so on. Both sides despise each other.


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## Phoenall (Aug 19, 2016)

Tommy Tainant said:


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 COWFLOP  if that was the case you would have welcomed the chance to leave in the first place. Even if the deal meant that you could keep going to Majorca 4 times a year without having a visa or passport you would still toe the neo marxist line


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## Phoenall (Aug 19, 2016)

Tommy Tainant said:


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 The labour supporters I speak to dont want Corbyn as he is an embarrassment, and he only got in because the Unions bought the votes


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## Meathead (Aug 19, 2016)

Labour's about where Foote left them three decades ago. The left often veers too far in a country that is still fundamentally conservative.


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## Tommy Tainant (Aug 19, 2016)

Phoenall said:


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Oh dear. He got in because Labour members are sick of tory lite policies. I am not a labour member but even I can see the appeal.


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## Tehon (Aug 19, 2016)

Tommy Tainant said:


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How can ignorance be an excuse? Was there not a public debate about the consequences of the vote before the vote took place?

Why even have a representative democracy? The people were offered the chance to give their positions via a vote, now the representatives are supposed to act on those wishes. Isn't it in the representatives best interests to secure a prosperous deal for their constituency? Would you prefer a direct democracy as opposed to one of representation, or is your desire for a another vote just out of convenience?


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## Phoenall (Aug 19, 2016)

Tommy Tainant said:


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COWFLOP   he was elected because the unions bought the votes using members money. that is why there is such a commotion over the new election that he and the unions know he will lose


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## Tommy Tainant (Aug 19, 2016)

Tehon said:


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Are you suggesting that this is done regardless of the consequences ? That would be reckless.
Since the referendum the brexit case has unravelled. They arent going to kick anyone out. That was a key part of their plan. Now its not going to happen.
They were going to give the money "saved" to the NHS. That isnt going to happen either.
Money for the regions was supposedly ringfenced, and now we find that it isnt. Scotland will be £6bn worse off.
The landscape has changed considerably,primarily because the brexit case was a pack of lies.
People should be given the chance to reconsider.


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## Tehon (Aug 19, 2016)

Tommy Tainant said:


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*Are you suggesting that this is done regardless of the consequences ? *

I think elections have consequences.

I don't think there is any information that is new, that wasn't known prior to the vote. Whether that information was conveyed properly to the voters is a different matter and should probably be addressed separately.

Has there been a noticeable change of heart among the leave crowd?


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## ESay (Aug 19, 2016)

Tommy Tainant said:


> What Mrs May wants in her heart of hearts is for the negotiations to prove so grisly that she has to go back to Parliament and state that the outcome cant be contemplated and that we need to vote again on it. That could mean a new referendum or even an election.



Not likely to happen, I think. Brexit means Brexit and Brussels won’t make a mistake allowing Britain to stay in after the vote. What for? To have a member that constantly complains and wants a special status? No, unlikely. Their main goal is to prevent the EU’s disintegration after Brexit. Thus, a deal with Britain where London will be seemed as a winner isn’t in their interests. I think that Britain will get something like Norway has with some amendments in Britain’s favour.


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## Phoenall (Aug 19, 2016)

Tommy Tainant said:


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 Arent you forgetting that these were your LIES and they were debunked when you could not give any links. Then you tried to say the referendum was illegal when you could not have a mulligan. Now you are trying even more LIES and failing.


 HAVE YOU EVER BEEN RIGHT ON THE UK's EXIT FROM EUROPE


 Next you will complain that it has made the nation too healthy and ripe for a take over.


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## Phoenall (Aug 19, 2016)

ESay said:


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 You mean like France and Germany have, that means they are savvy to any new laws in the offing months before any other members and can change their rules to suit ?


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## ESay (Aug 19, 2016)

Phoenall said:


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I don’t understand the question. Could you elaborate?


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## Phoenall (Aug 20, 2016)

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 The rulers of the EU know about any new restrictive laws 6 months before any one else so can take steps to bring in local laws to combat the EU ones. This means they have an unfair advantage over the rest of the nations


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## ESay (Aug 21, 2016)

Phoenall said:


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And? I still don’t understand what this has to do with those I wrote in my post.


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## Vagabond63 (Aug 22, 2016)

ESay said:


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Brexit doesn't mean Brexit, the referendum was non binding and can be ignored, although clearly at a political cost to whoever does so. The problem is that the EU doesn't have to negotiate anything to favour the UK; if anything the EU might "make an example" out of the UK, to discourage other countries from following suit.


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## Tommy Tainant (Aug 22, 2016)

Vagabond63 said:


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  Apparently the remainers have a majority in the commons.

I dont think there will be a big bang. It will slowly become apparent that it isnt going to happen and those who voted brexit will be secretly relieved that it isnt going to happen.


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## Vagabond63 (Aug 22, 2016)

Tommy Tainant said:


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I think you might be right, but the political backlash from the Little Englanders and fascist elements like the EDF and Britain First is something no right of centre polititian can ignore. Either way they are damned if they don't and damned if they do. I blame that idiot Cameron for getting us into this mess in the first place.


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## Tommy Tainant (Aug 22, 2016)

Vagabond63 said:


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I think if she can string it out till the next election the situation will become a lot clearer and it gets her off the hook to a certain extent.
Its possible that by then there will be two labour parties and she might be able to chance being unpopular.


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## Phoenall (Aug 22, 2016)

Vagabond63 said:


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 And end up shooting itself in the foot if it did. It would be the first to cry if it was forced to pay the same levee's on its exports out of the EU.


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## Phoenall (Aug 22, 2016)

Tommy Tainant said:


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 Right up until the EU forces Scotland to become a Nuclear power station for the rest of Europe, and Wales to be the open prison for EU petty criminals.


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## ESay (Aug 23, 2016)

Vagabond63 said:


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Right, the British government isn’t legally obliged to do something after the vote. But not-doing isn’t the best solution, I think. There are several reasons of it: it will provoke some political turmoil in Britain (it is the least reason); Britain will no longer be able to demand a special status inside the EU (because their main threat – Brexit – will turn out to be bluff); and the most important reason – some doubtful developments inside the EU. Frankly, I don’t think that transforming the EU into super-federation is a good idea. Actually, it is a very bad idea, I think. And I understand Brexiters in their unwillingness to participate in it.

Considering this, the government should proceed with Brexit and I think it will do so. The most interesting things are what we will see in a final agreement. I think that Britain will preserve a free access to the EU market, but it will have to pay contributions to the EU budget and abide by the principle of free movement of people inside the EU. But again, it is unclear what the scopes of all of that will be.


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## Vagabond63 (Sep 8, 2016)

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Absolutely. All we will end up with is what we have already, more or less, but with no say on how the EU develops.


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## montelatici (Sep 9, 2016)




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## Phoenall (Sep 10, 2016)

montelatici said:


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 A has been with no power talking to a foreign  TV presenter


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 11, 2016)

Its very rare that a lie so blatant is shown up so quickly. Add this to the "Aussie style points system" and what did people vote for ?






Brexit camp abandons £350m-a-week NHS funding pledge


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## Phoenall (Sep 11, 2016)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Its very rare that a lie so blatant is shown up so quickly. Add this to the "Aussie style points system" and what did people vote for ?
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 to get out of the control of you neo marxists that are ruining what could have been the best thing since sliced bread. Now it looks like Germany will have to find another 4.8 billion Euro's to help plug the gap caused by Britian's exit. No wonder they are pissed and want to teach us a lesson. Then there is the other nations wanting to leave because they have seen the light, and know that it was just another failed commie experiment.


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## Vagabond63 (Sep 12, 2016)

Phoenall said:


> to get out of the control of you neo marxists that are ruining what could have been the best thing since sliced bread.



Ah yes, those "Victorian values" so much beloved of the political right, child labour, universal poverty except for the privaleged few, no holidays, no health care unless you pay through the nose, in fact nothing unless you pay through the nose for it. Damn those pesky socialists that wanted a better life for all, not just the silver spoon brigade.


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## Phoenall (Sep 12, 2016)

Vagabond63 said:


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 And made worse by the neo marxists that took them all away and made the people slaves to the state. We saw this in Russia, Cambodia, China and Korea didnt we.


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## Vagabond63 (Sep 12, 2016)

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Them's were old school "Marxist-Leninists", please get your terminology right at least, if you're going to bandy neologisms about.


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## Anathema (Sep 12, 2016)

Tommy Tainant said:


> It is looking increasingly likely that Brexit will never happen
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> *“They say they don’t even know the right questions to ask when they finally begin bargaining with Europe,”*



The failure is so stunning it almost makes me sick to say some of my family WAS British.....

WTF are they asking questions rather than making demands?


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## Phoenall (Sep 12, 2016)

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 And thems the ones in charge of the EU now, unelected and untouchable telling the governments what to do. Lets see who will be next to leave the EU and cause ripples across the continent. It is looking like Germany will be footing most of the bill for the UK exit at the moment


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 12, 2016)

Anathema said:


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Because the UK is arguing from a position of weakness. Access to the single market is vital to our economic future and the EU know that.None of these clowns know what they are doing and they made no plans to carry this through.
Its a shambles.


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## Anathema (Sep 12, 2016)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Because the UK is arguing from a position of weakness. Access to the single market is vital to our economic future and the EU know that.None of these clowns know what they are doing and they made no plans to carry this through.
> Its a shambles.



Seems like that's the UKs fault for failing to maintain its Empire.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 12, 2016)

Anathema said:


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In many ways the UK is a backward feudal society.


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## Anathema (Sep 12, 2016)

Tommy Tainant said:


> In many ways the UK is a backward feudal society.



Nothing wrong with being a backward feudal society so long as you go all the way with it. It would seem the UK only does it part way, causing themselves issues.


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## Phoenall (Sep 13, 2016)

Tommy Tainant said:


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 Been out of touch with reality I see as the British economy is booming and has risen above what it was before the vote. People are having more confidence in the government to handle the situation and can see that building fences and walls is the way to stop all the illegals. Germany is running scared because they will be asked to plug the hole left to the tune of 4.5billion Euro's, France is talking of leaving the neo marxist federal state of Europe now as their farmers are not getting the cash the did just last year. The EU is falling apart because unelected neo marxist eurocrats have destroyed its primary principles and tried to make it into another soviet.


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## Phoenall (Sep 13, 2016)

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 Only those parts that have the racist celts living in them, like Wales and Scotland. Still think that the oil will flow and they can sell water at a £ a glass


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