# If we did not allow Muslim foreigners into the United States...........



## Beachboy

*
*......there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  Duh!





​ This is not rocket science.





.


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## asaratis

Beachboy said:


> *
> *......there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  Duh!
> 
> 
> This is not rocket science.


If we did not allow immigrants into this country, there would be no Boston.


Duh!


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## Truthmatters

there are muslims buried at arlington.


You spit on the graves of our heros


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## Yurt

asaratis said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *......there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  Duh!
> 
> 
> This is not rocket science.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we did not allow immigrants into this country, there would be no Boston.
> 
> 
> Duh!
Click to expand...


nice burn

if didn't allow any white people in this country, there would not have been an oklahoma city bombing

duh!


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## theHawk

Truthmatters said:


> there are muslims buried at arlington.
> 
> 
> You spit on the graves of our heros



There are thousands more Christians there too.


I guess you spit on their graves every time you rant about Christians.


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## theHawk

asaratis said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *......there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  Duh!
> 
> 
> This is not rocket science.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we did not allow immigrants into this country, there would be no Boston.
> 
> 
> Duh!
Click to expand...


So Boston would cease to exist if we deported all the Muslims from foreign countries?


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## Beachboy

asaratis said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *......there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  Duh!
> 
> 
> This is not rocket science.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we did not allow immigrants into this country, there would be no Boston.
> 
> 
> Duh!
Click to expand...




Truthmatters said:


> there are muslims buried at arlington.
> 
> 
> You spit on the graves of our heros




 Typically, the wing-nuts come right out of the woodwork.  Did I say "Muslims" or "Foreign Muslims" in the OP?  Did I say anything about people of any religion NOT being buried anywhere?  Did anyone see me spit on anyone else?  No not at all.

Then people wonder why my signature is says I am "pissed off."  Once we get rid of and keep out the "foreign Muslims" we can go to work on the incredible stupidity of  some American voters.  These people are so dumb they don't even vote for their own best interest!​


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## Beachboy

theHawk said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> 
> If   we did not allow immigrants into this country, there would be no   Boston.
> 
> 
> Duh!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> there are muslims buried at arlington.
> 
> 
> You spit on the graves of our heros
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Typically, the wing-nuts come right out of the woodwork.  Did I say   "Muslims" or "Foreign Muslims" in the OP?  Did I say anything about   people of any religion NOT being buried anywhere?  Did anyone see me   spit on anyone else?  No not at all.
> 
> Then people wonder why my signature is says I am "pissed off."  Once we   get rid of and keep out the "foreign Muslims" we can go to work on the   incredible stupidity of  some American voters.  These people are so  dumb  they don't even vote for their own best interest!​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're new here.  TM is the dumbest shit-for-brains liberal we have   here.  Best thing you can do is just laugh at the stupidity of people   like her.
Click to expand...


Thank you for the input, I will make note of TM.

These people who can not think for themselves are really irritating,   which is why I am pointing out that I have been a Republican and a   Democrat, but today I am simply pissed at both of parties.

I will save my remarks on Republicans for another time.  The left is   running around like chickens with their heads cut off. They are so   worried about being "Politically Correct," or protecting someone's   "civil rights" that they miss the obvious.  Did you know that La Raza   did a successful campaign to get television stations to drop the word   "Wetback" and "Illegal Alien" to replace it with the word "Migrant?"    Wouldn't want to offend the freeloaders would we?

Hell President Eisenhower's deportation program was called in official   government documents, "Operation Wetback."  But, today it is not PC to   call these INVADERS "Wetbacks" or "foreign Muslims" who come to the   United States to bleed our welfare, education, and health care system   dry.  Now with they are cocky and tell natural born U. S. citizens that   we owe them, and should thank them for building more slums. 

So, next comes the post from some ultra-liberal or even or foreign   Muslim calling me a "racist."  Forget that one side of my family has   been here over 300 years!*

The Boston Marathon Bombing was preventable.




*.*
*


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## asaratis

theHawk said:


> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *......there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  Duh!
> 
> 
> This is not rocket science.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we did not allow immigrants into this country, there would be no Boston.
> 
> 
> Duh!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So Boston would cease to exist if we deported all the Muslims from foreign countries?
Click to expand...

What a silly fuckin' thing to say.  This entire country is descended from immigrants...except for the native American Indians that were fucked out of their homeland by European immigrants.


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## Beachboy

asaratis said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we did not allow immigrants into this country, there would be no Boston.
> 
> 
> Duh!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So Boston would cease to exist if we deported all the Muslims from foreign countries?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What a silly fuckin' thing to say.  This entire country is descended from immigrants...except for the native American Indians that were fucked out of their homeland by European immigrants.
Click to expand...


And, it is precisely that kind of ignorance that has this country in the mess we are in.  Prior to 1960 the typical American immigrant was from Europe, and had European customs.  They came to the United States looking for opportunity, not a hand out.  All you need do is look at the accomplishments of Eastern Europeans and Italians to understand this. 

Then it all changed, we began bringing in the third world types who were tribalistic animals that do not understand Western democracy.  But they did understand the welfare handout that previous immigrants had not enjoyed.   What contributions have you seen to America from foreign Muslims?  Anything noteworthy?  You can't name a thing can you?

Now immigrants have always caused problems for host countries, but we would not have had 911 or the Boston Marathon Bombing if we had not let these third world barbarians into our nation.  Johnny Jihad is here to push the agenda of the Koran.  Muslim is a religion that opposes everything America stands for.  Yet we stupid Americans continue to offer a generous hand, to the point we are letting third world foreigner Muslims destroy our  very country.  These people do not want to assimilate to America, they want to give us the "gift of their ignorant, anti-American religion."  This is why there were dead bodies all over Boston and New York.  Am I getting through to you at all?  Or, are you just sitting in our politically correct, leftest bubble with your head up your ass?


We should have figured this out when they insisted on building a Mosque near ground zero.  Certainly not a friendly way to join the American community.  Deport all foreign Muslims.  We don't have to put up with this shit in the United States.









.​


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## S.J.

asaratis said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we did not allow immigrants into this country, there would be no Boston.
> 
> 
> Duh!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So Boston would cease to exist if we deported all the Muslims from foreign countries?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What a silly fuckin' thing to say.  This entire country is descended from immigrants...except for the native American Indians that were fucked out of their homeland by European immigrants.
Click to expand...

What a silly fucking thing to say.  Just because we're a nation of immigrants doesn't mean we should let anybody and everybody in, especially the ones who want to BLOW US UP!!!


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## Beachboy

BallsBrunswick said:


> I'm not familiar with the OP but based off this thread, he may be on of the dumbest people I've encountered on the website. Hope you're pretty because you're not making it anywhere in this life on your brains.



Just what you would expect.  BallsBrunswick can not discuss this issue with facts, links and logic, so he turns to name calling.

Let me see if I can dumb it down for you.

1).  The Boston Marathon bombers were Muslims from the third world.

2).  The older one was rejected for U. S. citizenship for assaulting his wife.

3).  A "dirty bomb" was made to hurt, maim, and kill as many Americans as possible because they had wasted their American opportunity.  

4).  The older bomber claimed to have made no American friends during the ten years he had been here.

5).  If these foreign Muslims had not been in the country, they could not have exploded the bombs at the Boston Marathon.  It is just that simple.  We should learn from this.  *The Marathon bombing was avoidable.*

6).  Look at the philosophies of these "Johnny Jihads."  They were not 21st century Americans.   Time to clean house. Living in the United States is privilege.  Deportation solves more problems than it creates.

Case closed.  Figured it out yet, genius?











.​


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## asaratis

S.J. said:


> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Boston would cease to exist if we deported all the Muslims from foreign countries?
> 
> 
> 
> What a silly fuckin' thing to say.  This entire country is descended from immigrants...except for the native American Indians that were fucked out of their homeland by European immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What a silly fucking thing to say.  Just because we're a nation of immigrants doesn't mean we should let anybody and everybody in, especially the ones who want to BLOW US UP!!!
Click to expand...

You missed the point, Einstein!


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## Unkotare

Beachboy said:


> So, next comes the post from some ultra-liberal or even or foreign   Muslim calling me a "racist."  Forget that one side of my family has   been here over 300 years!





What the hell does that have to do with whether or not you're a racist, idiot?


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Boston would cease to exist if we deported all the Muslims from foreign countries?
> 
> 
> 
> What a silly fuckin' thing to say.  This entire country is descended from immigrants...except for the native American Indians that were fucked out of their homeland by European immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And, it is precisely that kind of ignorance that has this country in the mess we are in.  Prior to 1960 the typical American immigrant was from Europe, and had European customs.  They came to the United States looking for opportunity, not a hand out.  All you need do is look at the accomplishments of Eastern Europeans and Italians to understand this.
> 
> Then it all changed, we began bringing in the third world types who were tribalistic animals that do not understand Western democracy.  But they did understand the welfare handout that previous immigrants had not enjoyed.   What contributions have you seen to America from foreign Muslims?  Anything noteworthy?  You can't name a thing can you?
> 
> Now immigrants have always caused problems for host countries, but we would not have had 911 or the Boston Marathon Bombing if we had not let these third world barbarians into our nation.  Johnny Jihad is here to push the agenda of the Koran.  Muslim is a religion that opposes everything America stands for.  Yet we stupid Americans continue to offer a generous hand, to the point we are letting third world foreigner Muslims destroy our  very country.  These people do not want to assimilate to America, they want to give us the "gift of their ignorant, anti-American religion."  This is why there were dead bodies all over Boston and New York.  Am I getting through to you at all?  Or, are you just sitting in our politically correct, leftest bubble with your head up your ass?
> 
> 
> We should have figured this out when they insisted on building a Mosque near ground zero.  Certainly not a friendly way to join the American community.  Deport all foreign Muslims.  We don't have to put up with this shit in the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .​
Click to expand...



That mosque has been there since way before 9/11, and is a Sufi congregation, which has nothing to do with Wahabbism except as adversaries.  DUH.

The Asian immigrants who built the railroads across this country might be startled to learn they had "European customs".  DOUBLE DUH.

However I must admit, your inane OP does have a point; had we refused entry to "Muslim foreigners", the kids involved would not have been here to do what they did.  We'd have to rely on homegrown terrorists like Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins, Reverend Paul Jennings Hill, John Salvi, Eric Rudolph, Martin Uphoff, Patricia Hughes, Jeremy Dunahoe, Paul Ross Evans, Bobby Joe Rogers, or Francis Grady.

What a difference that would have made, huh?




Hard to believe minds like this get to vote... smh

BTW how come you bigots only see terrorists in terms of religion when they're Muslim?  Not to mention when they haven't used their religion as a pretext, in contrast to the entire list of Christians above?

(no DUH big enough for this one...)


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## BallsBrunswick

Beachboy said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not familiar with the OP but based off this thread, he may be on of the dumbest people I've encountered on the website. Hope you're pretty because you're not making it anywhere in this life on your brains.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just what you would expect.  BallsBrunswick can not discuss this issue with facts, links and logic, so he turns to name calling.
> 
> Let me see if I can dumb it down for you.
> 
> 1).  The Boston Marathon bombers were Muslims from the third world.
> 
> 2).  The older one was rejected for U. S. citizenship for assaulting his wife.
> 
> 3).  A "dirty bomb" was made to hurt, maim, and kill as many Americans as possible because they had wasted their American opportunity.
> 
> 4).  The older bomber claimed to have made no American friends during the ten years he had been here.
> 
> 5).  If these foreign Muslims had not been in the country, they could not have exploded the bombs at the Boston Marathon.  It is just that simple.  We should learn from this.  *The Marathon bombing was avoidable.*
> 
> 6).  Look at the philosophies of these "Johnny Jihads."  They were not 21st century Americans.   Time to clean house. Living in the United States is privilege.  Deportation solves more problems than it creates.
> 
> Case closed.  Figured it out yet, genius?
> [/CENTER]
Click to expand...


Why wouldn't these people just walk across the Canadian or Mexican border? Or are you not bright enough to comprehend that and want to persecute tens of thousands of people for your ignorance? Again... you're pretty fucking stupid.


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## tinydancer

Truthmatters said:


> there are muslims buried at arlington.
> 
> 
> You spit on the graves of our heros



Just out of curiosity have you ever been there?

I have many times so I'm just wondering if you have for true.


----------



## tinydancer

BallsBrunswick said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not familiar with the OP but based off this thread, he may be on of the dumbest people I've encountered on the website. Hope you're pretty because you're not making it anywhere in this life on your brains.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just what you would expect.  BallsBrunswick can not discuss this issue with facts, links and logic, so he turns to name calling.
> 
> Let me see if I can dumb it down for you.
> 
> 1).  The Boston Marathon bombers were Muslims from the third world.
> 
> 2).  The older one was rejected for U. S. citizenship for assaulting his wife.
> 
> 3).  A "dirty bomb" was made to hurt, maim, and kill as many Americans as possible because they had wasted their American opportunity.
> 
> 4).  The older bomber claimed to have made no American friends during the ten years he had been here.
> 
> 5).  If these foreign Muslims had not been in the country, they could not have exploded the bombs at the Boston Marathon.  It is just that simple.  We should learn from this.  *The Marathon bombing was avoidable.*
> 
> 6).  Look at the philosophies of these "Johnny Jihads."  They were not 21st century Americans.   Time to clean house. Living in the United States is privilege.  Deportation solves more problems than it creates.
> 
> Case closed.  Figured it out yet, genius?
> [/CENTER]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why wouldn't these people just walk across the Canadian or Mexican border? Or are you not bright enough to comprehend that and want to persecute tens of thousands of people for your ignorance? Again... you're pretty fucking stupid.
Click to expand...


I think we are going to hear a sad story here. An older brother and a younger brother. One is the person who is of age who convinces the younger one to commit a horrible crime. 

And I think my heart will break.


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a silly fuckin' thing to say.  This entire country is descended from immigrants...except for the native American Indians that were fucked out of their homeland by European immigrants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, it is precisely that kind of ignorance that has this country in the mess we are in.  Prior to 1960 the typical American immigrant was from Europe, and had European customs.  They came to the United States looking for opportunity, not a hand out.  All you need do is look at the accomplishments of Eastern Europeans and Italians to understand this.
> 
> Then it all changed, we began bringing in the third world types who were tribalistic animals that do not understand Western democracy.  But they did understand the welfare handout that previous immigrants had not enjoyed.   What contributions have you seen to America from foreign Muslims?  Anything noteworthy?  You can't name a thing can you?
> 
> Now immigrants have always caused problems for host countries, but we would not have had 911 or the Boston Marathon Bombing if we had not let these third world barbarians into our nation.  Johnny Jihad is here to push the agenda of the Koran.  Muslim is a religion that opposes everything America stands for.  Yet we stupid Americans continue to offer a generous hand, to the point we are letting third world foreigner Muslims destroy our  very country.  These people do not want to assimilate to America, they want to give us the "gift of their ignorant, anti-American religion."  This is why there were dead bodies all over Boston and New York.  Am I getting through to you at all?  Or, are you just sitting in our politically correct, leftest bubble with your head up your ass?
> 
> 
> We should have figured this out when they insisted on building a Mosque near ground zero.  Certainly not a friendly way to join the American community.  Deport all foreign Muslims.  We don't have to put up with this shit in the United States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That mosque has been there since way before 9/11, and is a Sufi congregation, which has nothing to do with Wahabbism except as adversaries.  DUH.
> 
> The Asian immigrants who built the railroads across this country might be startled to learn they had "European customs".  DOUBLE DUH.
> 
> However I must admit, your inane OP does have a point; had we refused entry to "Muslim foreigners", the kids involved would not have been here to do what they did.  We'd have to rely on homegrown terrorists like Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins, Reverend Paul Jennings Hill, John Salvi, Eric Rudolph, Martin Uphoff, Patricia Hughes, Jeremy Dunahoe, Paul Ross Evans, Bobby Joe Rogers, or Francis Grady.
> 
> What a difference that would have made, huh?
> 
> Hard to believe minds like this get to vote... smh
> 
> BTW how come you bigots only see terrorists in terms of religion when they're Muslim?  Not to mention when they haven't used their religion as a pretext, in contrast to the entire list of Christians above?
> 
> (no DUH big enough for this one...)
Click to expand...


The Muslims were offered more than the property was worth by Donald Trump, and refused.  While they may have had the legal right to build, it was not neighborly, and gave Americans another reason to hate them.  They have demonized themselves.

While the Chinese contribution to building the railroads has long been acknowledged by all, their contribution involved less than 6,000 people which makes it relatively small footnote in the history of America.  CHINESE-AMERICAN CONTRIBUTION TO TRANSCONTINENTAL RAILROAD

Finally you grudgingly admit that I am right, no foreign Muslims in the United States, no Boston Marathon Bombing.  The more we get rid of the fewer we have to worry about, giving us more time to focus on our home-grown terrorists who are legitimately our problem. 

As far as your comment about the Muslim religion as a cause of American problems, I suggest you watch something called a "television network news."  Not a week goes by that these third world barbarians are not causing some expensive problem for American.  Remove foreign Muslims, reduce the terror threat, and cutting our risk is a big DUH!

By the way, words like "bigot" and "racist" used to concern me when I was a Dem.  Then I realized it is just name-calling by inferiors who want in the United States.  They are complainers who know it is easier to be a bleeding heart than to dig in and solve a problem.  They think we owe them something.  They are not special, and they are at the bottom of the American food chain where every immigrant group starts out.  They think it should all be given to them, they deserve it!  Bull shit.  Muslims are enemys of the American people, and should not be trusted.  If there are some good ones, why are they not speaking out, and aiding the American government?  You sure don't see that on the network television news.

Apparently, you do not understand that no country offers immigration to help immigrants.  They are brought in to fill a need, a shortage, of certain types of workers.  It is not the problem of the United States of America to solve the problem of every person who was born into a third world shit hole.  

What these immigrants need to do is follow the example of Egypt.  Take over their own government on their own, clean up their slums, build a modern economy, and stop whining to the United States.  This is their problem, not America's.  Egypt did it on their own.  The United States did it with the help of France.   Keep the third world shit out of the United States.  If we have to get pushy about it, so be it!










.​


----------



## WillowTree

theHawk said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> there are muslims buried at arlington.
> 
> 
> You spit on the graves of our heros
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are thousands more Christians there too.
> 
> 
> I guess you spit on their graves every time you rant about Christians.
Click to expand...


Way to shut her the fuck up!


----------



## Beachboy

BallsBrunswick said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not familiar with the OP but based off this thread, he may be on of the dumbest people I've encountered on the website. Hope you're pretty because you're not making it anywhere in this life on your brains.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just what you would expect.  BallsBrunswick can not discuss this issue with facts, links and logic, so he turns to name calling.
> 
> Let me see if I can dumb it down for you.
> 
> 1).  The Boston Marathon bombers were Muslims from the third world.
> 
> 2).  The older one was rejected for U. S. citizenship for assaulting his wife.
> 
> 3).  A "dirty bomb" was made to hurt, maim, and kill as many Americans as possible because they had wasted their American opportunity.
> 
> 4).  The older bomber claimed to have made no American friends during the ten years he had been here.
> 
> 5).  If these foreign Muslims had not been in the country, they could not have exploded the bombs at the Boston Marathon.  It is just that simple.  We should learn from this.  *The Marathon bombing was avoidable.*
> 
> 6).  Look at the philosophies of these "Johnny Jihads."  They were not 21st century Americans.   Time to clean house. Living in the United States is privilege.  Deportation solves more problems than it creates.
> 
> Case closed.  Figured it out yet, genius?
> [/CENTER]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why wouldn't these people just walk across the Canadian or Mexican border? Or are you not bright enough to comprehend that and want to persecute tens of thousands of people for your ignorance? Again... you're pretty fucking stupid.
Click to expand...


Here is one of *287,000,000* anti Muslim web sites in Google.  I picked this one because it is from Aljazeer, not an American news source.  http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/12/20121230135815198642.html  Americans hate foreign Muslims period. The main point of the current Immigration Reform debate is the way these third worlders just walk across our Mexican and Canadian borders.  This is the top issue in the debate.  Shoot-to-kill works for me, other nations do it.  Clearly, I am not ignorant, I am a realist.  You just can't handle the truth!  *   I notice you provide no links about how American Citizens WANT to welcome foreign Muslims into the United States.*  Opinion unsupported by facts, who does that make stupid?




.


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, it is precisely that kind of ignorance that has this country in the mess we are in.  Prior to 1960 the typical American immigrant was from Europe, and had European customs.  They came to the United States looking for opportunity, not a hand out.  All you need do is look at the accomplishments of Eastern Europeans and Italians to understand this.
> 
> Then it all changed, we began bringing in the third world types who were tribalistic animals that do not understand Western democracy.  But they did understand the welfare handout that previous immigrants had not enjoyed.   What contributions have you seen to America from foreign Muslims?  Anything noteworthy?  You can't name a thing can you?
> 
> Now immigrants have always caused problems for host countries, but we would not have had 911 or the Boston Marathon Bombing if we had not let these third world barbarians into our nation.  Johnny Jihad is here to push the agenda of the Koran.  Muslim is a religion that opposes everything America stands for.  Yet we stupid Americans continue to offer a generous hand, to the point we are letting third world foreigner Muslims destroy our  very country.  These people do not want to assimilate to America, they want to give us the "gift of their ignorant, anti-American religion."  This is why there were dead bodies all over Boston and New York.  Am I getting through to you at all?  Or, are you just sitting in our politically correct, leftest bubble with your head up your ass?
> 
> 
> We should have figured this out when they insisted on building a Mosque near ground zero.  Certainly not a friendly way to join the American community.  Deport all foreign Muslims.  We don't have to put up with this shit in the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That mosque has been there since way before 9/11, and is a Sufi congregation, which has nothing to do with Wahabbism except as adversaries.  DUH.
> 
> The Asian immigrants who built the railroads across this country might be startled to learn they had "European customs".  DOUBLE DUH.
> 
> However I must admit, your inane OP does have a point; had we refused entry to "Muslim foreigners", the kids involved would not have been here to do what they did.  We'd have to rely on homegrown terrorists like Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins, Reverend Paul Jennings Hill, John Salvi, Eric Rudolph, Martin Uphoff, Patricia Hughes, Jeremy Dunahoe, Paul Ross Evans, Bobby Joe Rogers, or Francis Grady.
> 
> What a difference that would have made, huh?
> 
> Hard to believe minds like this get to vote... smh
> 
> BTW how come you bigots only see terrorists in terms of religion when they're Muslim?  Not to mention when they haven't used their religion as a pretext, in contrast to the entire list of Christians above?
> 
> (no DUH big enough for this one...)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Finally you grudgingly admit that I am right, no foreign Muslims in the United States, no Boston Marathon Bombing.  The more we get rid of the fewer we have to worry about, giving us more time to focus on our home-grown terrorists who are legitimately our problem.
Click to expand...


I see the facetiousness flew blissfully over your head.  Why am I not surprised...

I'll come back to clean up the rest when I get really really bored.


----------



## yidnar

Yurt said:


> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *......there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  Duh!
> 
> 
> This is not rocket science.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we did not allow immigrants into this country, there would be no Boston.
> 
> 
> Duh!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> nice burn
> 
> if didn't allow any white people in this country, there would not have been an oklahoma city bombing
> 
> duh!
Click to expand...

who the fuck would want to blow up a tee pee ???


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> That mosque has been there since way before 9/11, and is a Sufi congregation, which has nothing to do with Wahabbism except as adversaries.  DUH.
> 
> The Asian immigrants who built the railroads across this country might be startled to learn they had "European customs".  DOUBLE DUH.
> 
> However I must admit, your inane OP does have a point; had we refused entry to "Muslim foreigners", the kids involved would not have been here to do what they did.  We'd have to rely on homegrown terrorists like Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins, Reverend Paul Jennings Hill, John Salvi, Eric Rudolph, Martin Uphoff, Patricia Hughes, Jeremy Dunahoe, Paul Ross Evans, Bobby Joe Rogers, or Francis Grady.
> 
> What a difference that would have made, huh?
> 
> Hard to believe minds like this get to vote... smh
> 
> BTW how come you bigots only see terrorists in terms of religion when they're Muslim?  Not to mention when they haven't used their religion as a pretext, in contrast to the entire list of Christians above?
> 
> (no DUH big enough for this one...)
> 
> 
> 
> Finally you grudgingly admit that I am right, no foreign Muslims in the United States, no Boston Marathon Bombing.  The more we get rid of the fewer we have to worry about, giving us more time to focus on our home-grown terrorists who are legitimately our problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see the facetiousness flew blissfully over your head.  Why am I not surprised...
> 
> I'll come back to clean up the rest when I get really really bored.
Click to expand...


What part of;

 *"No foreign Muslims in the United States, no Boston Marathon Bombing,"*​ 
don't you understand?




.


----------



## Sunshine

Beachboy said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, it is precisely that kind of ignorance that has this country in the mess we are in.  Prior to 1960 the typical American immigrant was from Europe, and had European customs.  They came to the United States looking for opportunity, not a hand out.  All you need do is look at the accomplishments of Eastern Europeans and Italians to understand this.
> 
> Then it all changed, we began bringing in the third world types who were tribalistic animals that do not understand Western democracy.  But they did understand the welfare handout that previous immigrants had not enjoyed.   What contributions have you seen to America from foreign Muslims?  Anything noteworthy?  You can't name a thing can you?
> 
> Now immigrants have always caused problems for host countries, but we would not have had 911 or the Boston Marathon Bombing if we had not let these third world barbarians into our nation.  Johnny Jihad is here to push the agenda of the Koran.  Muslim is a religion that opposes everything America stands for.  Yet we stupid Americans continue to offer a generous hand, to the point we are letting third world foreigner Muslims destroy our  very country.  These people do not want to assimilate to America, they want to give us the "gift of their ignorant, anti-American religion."  This is why there were dead bodies all over Boston and New York.  Am I getting through to you at all?  Or, are you just sitting in our politically correct, leftest bubble with your head up your ass?
> 
> 
> We should have figured this out when they insisted on building a Mosque near ground zero.  Certainly not a friendly way to join the American community.  Deport all foreign Muslims.  We don't have to put up with this shit in the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That mosque has been there since way before 9/11, and is a Sufi congregation, which has nothing to do with Wahabbism except as adversaries.  DUH.
> 
> The Asian immigrants who built the railroads across this country might be startled to learn they had "European customs".  DOUBLE DUH.
> 
> However I must admit, your inane OP does have a point; had we refused entry to "Muslim foreigners", the kids involved would not have been here to do what they did.  We'd have to rely on homegrown terrorists like Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins, Reverend Paul Jennings Hill, John Salvi, Eric Rudolph, Martin Uphoff, Patricia Hughes, Jeremy Dunahoe, Paul Ross Evans, Bobby Joe Rogers, or Francis Grady.
> 
> What a difference that would have made, huh?
> 
> Hard to believe minds like this get to vote... smh
> 
> BTW how come you bigots only see terrorists in terms of religion when they're Muslim?  Not to mention when they haven't used their religion as a pretext, in contrast to the entire list of Christians above?
> 
> (no DUH big enough for this one...)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslims were offered more than the property was worth by Donald Trump, and refused.  While they may have had the legal right to build, it was not neighborly, and gave Americans another reason to hate them.  They have demonized themselves.
> 
> While the Chinese contribution to building the railroads has long been acknowledged by all, their contribution involved less than 6,000 people which makes it relatively small footnote in the history of America.  CHINESE-AMERICAN CONTRIBUTION TO TRANSCONTINENTAL RAILROAD
> 
> Finally you grudgingly admit that I am right, no foreign Muslims in the United States, no Boston Marathon Bombing.  The more we get rid of the fewer we have to worry about, giving us more time to focus on our home-grown terrorists who are legitimately our problem.
> 
> As far as your comment about the Muslim religion as a cause of American problems, I suggest you watch something called a "television network news."  Not a week goes by that these third world barbarians are not causing some expensive problem for American.  Remove foreign Muslims, reduce the terror threat, and cutting our risk is a big DUH!
> 
> By the way, words like "bigot" and "racist" used to concern me when I was a Dem.  Then I realized it is just name-calling by inferiors who want in the United States.  They are complainers who know it is easier to be a bleeding heart than to dig in and solve a problem.  They think we owe them something.  They are not special, and they are at the bottom of the American food chain where every immigrant group starts out.  They think it should all be given to them, they deserve it!  Bull shit.  Muslims are enemys of the American people, and should not be trusted.  If there are some good ones, why are they not speaking out, and aiding the American government?  You sure don't see that on the network television news.
> 
> Apparently, you do not understand that no country offers immigration to help immigrants.  They are brought in to fill a need, a shortage, of certain types of workers.  It is not the problem of the United States of America to solve the problem of every person who was born into a third world shit hole.
> 
> What these immigrants need to do is follow the example of Egypt.  Take over their own government on their own, clean up their slums, build a modern economy, and stop whining to the United States.  This is their problem, not America's.  Egypt did it on their own.  The United States did it with the help of France.   Keep the third world shit out of the United States.  If we have to get pushy about it, so be it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .​
Click to expand...


I have been hearing 'foreigners go home' for over half a century.  Hasn't happened yet.  There is money out there to be made.   You will not make it trying to run foreigners out.  Seriously.


----------



## bripat9643

asaratis said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *......there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  Duh!
> 
> 
> This is not rocket science.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we did not allow immigrants into this country, there would be no Boston.
> 
> 
> Duh!
Click to expand...


Fine.  We'll allow unlimited immigration from Western Europe, then.


----------



## theHawk

asaratis said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we did not allow immigrants into this country, there would be no Boston.
> 
> 
> Duh!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So Boston would cease to exist if we deported all the Muslims from foreign countries?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What a silly fuckin' thing to say.  This entire country is descended from immigrants...except for the native American Indians that were fucked out of their homeland by European immigrants.
Click to expand...


No shit the enitre country is descended from immigrants.  

We are not descended from Muslims though.  Muslims have never contributed anything worthy and we'll do just fine without them.


----------



## BallsBrunswick

Beachboy said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just what you would expect.  BallsBrunswick can not discuss this issue with facts, links and logic, so he turns to name calling.
> 
> Let me see if I can dumb it down for you.
> 
> 1).  The Boston Marathon bombers were Muslims from the third world.
> 
> 2).  The older one was rejected for U. S. citizenship for assaulting his wife.
> 
> 3).  A "dirty bomb" was made to hurt, maim, and kill as many Americans as possible because they had wasted their American opportunity.
> 
> 4).  The older bomber claimed to have made no American friends during the ten years he had been here.
> 
> 5).  If these foreign Muslims had not been in the country, they could not have exploded the bombs at the Boston Marathon.  It is just that simple.  We should learn from this.  *The Marathon bombing was avoidable.*
> 
> 6).  Look at the philosophies of these "Johnny Jihads."  They were not 21st century Americans.   Time to clean house. Living in the United States is privilege.  Deportation solves more problems than it creates.
> 
> Case closed.  Figured it out yet, genius?
> [/CENTER]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why wouldn't these people just walk across the Canadian or Mexican border? Or are you not bright enough to comprehend that and want to persecute tens of thousands of people for your ignorance? Again... you're pretty fucking stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here is one of *287,000,000* anti Muslim web sites in Google.  I picked this one because it is from Aljazeer, not an American news source.  Anti-Muslim violence spiralling out of control in America - Opinion - Al Jazeera English  Americans hate foreign Muslims period. The main point of the current Immigration Reform debate is the way these third worlders just walk across our Mexican and Canadian borders.  This is the top issue in the debate.  Shoot-to-kill works for me, other nations do it.  Clearly, I am not ignorant, I am a realist.  You just can't handle the truth!  *   I notice you provide no links about how American Citizens WANT to welcome foreign Muslims into the United States.*  Opinion unsupported by facts, who does that make stupid?
> 
> .
Click to expand...


The fuck is this lunatic rambling about? Anyone care to interpret?


----------



## Pogo

OK, now that the ball game is over, laundry is done etc, we move on to the menial and address this post...




Beachboy said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, it is precisely that kind of ignorance that has this country in the mess we are in.  Prior to 1960 the typical American immigrant was from Europe, and had European customs.  They came to the United States looking for opportunity, not a hand out.  All you need do is look at the accomplishments of Eastern Europeans and Italians to understand this.
> 
> Then it all changed, we began bringing in the third world types who were tribalistic animals that do not understand Western democracy.  But they did understand the welfare handout that previous immigrants had not enjoyed.   What contributions have you seen to America from foreign Muslims?  Anything noteworthy?  You can't name a thing can you?
> 
> Now immigrants have always caused problems for host countries, but we would not have had 911 or the Boston Marathon Bombing if we had not let these third world barbarians into our nation.  Johnny Jihad is here to push the agenda of the Koran.  Muslim is a religion that opposes everything America stands for.  Yet we stupid Americans continue to offer a generous hand, to the point we are letting third world foreigner Muslims destroy our  very country.  These people do not want to assimilate to America, they want to give us the "gift of their ignorant, anti-American religion."  This is why there were dead bodies all over Boston and New York.  Am I getting through to you at all?  Or, are you just sitting in our politically correct, leftest bubble with your head up your ass?
> 
> 
> We should have figured this out when they insisted on building a Mosque near ground zero.  Certainly not a friendly way to join the American community.  Deport all foreign Muslims.  We don't have to put up with this shit in the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That mosque has been there since way before 9/11, and is a Sufi congregation, which has nothing to do with Wahabbism except as adversaries.  DUH.
> 
> The Asian immigrants who built the railroads across this country might be startled to learn they had "European customs".  DOUBLE DUH.
> 
> However I must admit, your inane OP does have a point; had we refused entry to "Muslim foreigners", the kids involved would not have been here to do what they did.  We'd have to rely on homegrown terrorists like Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins, Reverend Paul Jennings Hill, John Salvi, Eric Rudolph, Martin Uphoff, Patricia Hughes, Jeremy Dunahoe, Paul Ross Evans, Bobby Joe Rogers, or Francis Grady.
> 
> What a difference that would have made, huh?
> 
> Hard to believe minds like this get to vote... smh
> 
> BTW how come you bigots only see terrorists in terms of religion when they're Muslim?  Not to mention when they haven't used their religion as a pretext, in contrast to the entire list of Christians above?
> 
> (no DUH big enough for this one...)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Muslims were offered more than the property was worth by Donald Trump, and refused.  While they may have had the legal right to build, it was not neighborly, and gave Americans another reason to hate them.  They have demonized themselves.
Click to expand...


"The Muslims" were, huh?  How did that work?  "The Muslims" have a bank account somewhere and Wiggy went there with a check in hand?   Is it all about money then?  You're pissed that Wiggy couldn't buy them off?  Language always gives you away.  "The Muslims" this, "The Jews" that,  "The blacks" the other thing...

"Not neighborly"??  Are you unaware that Masjid al-Farah congregation has already been in that neighborhood for at least thirty years?  Are you blissfully ignorant that when Park 51 was announced, the congregation were _already using_ that building as a prayer space?  Do you even have any idea what Masjid al-Farah even is?

Do you know what Sufis are?  Do you know how many Sufis flew planes into buildings on 9/11?  (Hint: the Arabic number looks like this: {0}). Do you know that these Sufis are themselves, and have been, targets of Wahabbist bombings and violence too?  Or is this all in the land of blissful "day all look alike to me" ignorance?

Of course, this all assumes that the 9/11 terrorists did what they did as a _*religious *_act rather than a _political _one, a case you have yet to make.  Good luck with that.

"Not neighborly" my ass.  In light of your outright hypocrisy here you have absolutely no place to talk about "neighborly".




Beachboy said:


> While the Chinese contribution to building the railroads has long been acknowledged by all, their contribution involved less than 6,000 people which makes it relatively small footnote in the history of America.  CHINESE-AMERICAN CONTRIBUTION TO TRANSCONTINENTAL RAILROAD



Thanks but I don't need links to tell me what I already know, or how it contrasts with what you wrote:



> Prior to 1960 the typical American immigrant was from Europe, and had European customs. They came to the United States looking for opportunity, not a hand out



--- and even within that group a lot of them got the same kind of bigoted shit you're dumping on "the Jews"-- oh wait, it's "the Muslims" now-- , particularly Irish, Italians, Polish and Jews, as well as the aforementioned Chinese.  It's how pig-ignorance works.




Beachboy said:


> Finally you grudgingly admit that I am right, no foreign Muslims in the United States, no Boston Marathon Bombing.  The more we get rid of the fewer we have to worry about, giving us more time to focus on our home-grown terrorists who are legitimately our problem.



Hard to believe the level of reading noncomprehension here-- that's not "grudgingly admitting"-- it's *mocking*.  It's so mockable on so many levels of ignorance.

Level one: on 9/11 we were attacked by terrorists.  Some time after that, that line was changed to "we were attacked by Muslims".  How exactly did that come about?

Are we offended if a mosque opens up near the Federal Building in Oklahoma City? Or near a bombed lesbian bar or abortion clinic?
Oh wait-- those weren't done by "Muslims" were they? ... yet they must have something in common... what is it?

:cue Jeopardy think music:: )

All together now-- they were all ... TERRORISTS. Regardless what religion, if any, they followed. The fact remains that we were attacked not by a religion but by terrorists. That's -uh- why we call it "terrorism" and not "religionism". Because terrorists do it. Whether they be Wahabbi, Hindu, Catholic, atheist - again, religion has never been a prerequisite.

We were not attacked by "Islamists" or "sports fans" or "Sagittarians" or "people whose name begins with a dental consonant". We were attacked by terrorists. Period. Guilt by Association is what's known as a fallacy. 

None of which by the way has anything to do with Boston.  That's Level Two.
Remember your project to prove that 9/11 was a religious rather than political act just above?  It just got harder: now you've got to back up your "johnny jihad" fantasy-- not only that the Boston bombing had something to do with religion but that it even had something to do with terrorism.

Better order a fresh supply of crickets.  I suspect since it had nothing to do with either of them, it has everything to do with your own ignorance.




Beachboy said:


> As far as your comment about the Muslim religion as a cause of American problems, I suggest you watch something called a "television network news."  Not a week goes by that these third world barbarians are not causing some expensive problem for American.  Remove foreign Muslims, reduce the terror threat, and cutting our risk is a big DUH!



Reading comprehension strikes again.  I've never made any such comment, ever.  Such a statement would be stupid.  Even stupider than watching "a television network news [sic]".  And I suggest you get your nose out of Pam Geller's ass, the chief perpetrator of your "Ground Zero Mosque" hack soap opera.  Geller and her ilk are the journalistic equivalent of terrorists.  It's what they sell.  Why are you buying?




Beachboy said:


> By the way, words like "bigot" and "racist" used to concern me when I was a Dem.  Then I realized it is just name-calling by inferiors who want in the United States.  They are complainers who know it is easier to be a bleeding heart than to dig in and solve a problem.  They think we owe them something.  They are not special, and they are at the bottom of the American food chain where every immigrant group starts out.  They think it should all be given to them, they deserve it!  Bull shit.  Muslims are enemys of the American people, and should not be trusted.  If there are some good ones, why are they not speaking out, and aiding the American government?  You sure don't see that on the network television news.



You sure don't, since everything in that paragraph is too mindless even for TV, and that's saying a lot.  Just to pick/mock one at random: "Muslims are enemys [sic] of the American people" -- really?  Comparing an entire religion to an entire national population?  No, it's not surprising the word "bigot" doesn't bother you.  If it did you could get over it.  As they say, the first step is to admit you have a problem.  Ahem.


Immigrants come to this country for opportunity, one of the founding tenets of which is religious freedom.  Ignorance like this thread spits on that spirit.  Here's how one observer put it:

>> "These acts of violence against innocents violate the fundamental tenets of the Islamic faith.  And it's important for my fellow Americans to understand that.
...America counts millions of Muslims amongst our citizens, and Muslims make an incredibly valuable contribution to our country. Muslims are doctors, lawyers, law professors, members of the military, entrepreneurs, shopkeepers, moms and dads. And they need to be treated with respect. In our anger and emotion, our fellow Americans must treat each other with respect. ...Those who feel like they can intimidate our fellow citizens to take out their anger don't represent the best of America, they represent the worst of humankind, and they should be ashamed of that kind of behavior."

-- George W. Bush


----------



## Beachboy

BallsBrunswick said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why wouldn't these people just walk across the Canadian or Mexican border? Or are you not bright enough to comprehend that and want to persecute tens of thousands of people for your ignorance? Again... you're pretty fucking stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is one of *287,000,000* anti Muslim web sites in Google.  I picked this one because it is from Aljazeer, not an American news source.  Anti-Muslim violence spiralling out of control in America - Opinion - Al Jazeera English  Americans hate foreign Muslims period. The main point of the current Immigration Reform debate is the way these third worlders just walk across our Mexican and Canadian borders.  This is the top issue in the debate.  Shoot-to-kill works for me, other nations do it.  Clearly, I am not ignorant, I am a realist.  You just can't handle the truth!  *   I notice you provide no links about how American Citizens WANT to welcome foreign Muslims into the United States.*  Opinion unsupported by facts, who does that make stupid?
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The fuck is this lunatic rambling about? Anyone care to interpret?
Click to expand...


Try reading before you post, I am tired of repeating myself for lazy posters.This was covered in post #17 above by me.



> What part of;
> 
> *"No foreign Muslims in the United States, no Boston Marathon Bombing,"*​
> don't you understand?





.


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> OK, now that the ball game is over, laundry is done etc, we move on to the menial and address this post...



And Sharia Law is a concept of Christians and the _Bible_!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Americans know ass covering bull shit when they hear it!



> What part of;
> *"No foreign Muslims in the United States, no Boston Marathon Bombing,"*​ don't you understand?


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is one of 287,000,000 anti Muslim web sites in Google.  I picked this one because it is from Aljazeer, not an American news source.  Anti-Muslim violence spiralling out of control in America - Opinion - Al Jazeera English  Americans hate foreign Muslims period. The main point of the current Immigration Reform debate is the way these third worlders just walk across our Mexican and Canadian borders.  This is the top issue in the debate.  Shoot-to-kill works for me, other nations do it.  Clearly, I am not ignorant, I am a realist.  You just can't handle the truth!  *   I notice you provide no links about how American Citizens WANT to welcome foreign Muslims into the United States.*  Opinion unsupported by facts, who does that make stupid?
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fuck is this lunatic rambling about? Anyone care to interpret?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Try reading before you post, I am tired of repeating myself for lazy posters.This was covered in post #17 above by me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What part of;
> 
> "No foreign Muslims in the United States, no Boston Marathon Bombing,"​
> don't you understand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...


Ah, one of these cretins who thinks posting *real big* will somehow make his point work.  Amusing.

While you're out there hunting down bigger and bolder fonts, here's what you forgot:
What part of Boston had anything to do with Islam?  Or Sharia?





> I notice you provide no links about how American Citizens WANT to welcome foreign Muslims into the United States.  Opinion unsupported by facts, who does that make stupid?



You actually posted that?


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fuck is this lunatic rambling about? Anyone care to interpret?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try reading before you post, I am tired of repeating myself for lazy posters.This was covered in post #17 above by me.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, one of these cretins who thinks posting *real big* will somehow make his point work.  Amusing.
> 
> While you're out there hunting down bigger and bolder fonts, here's what you forgot:
> What part of Boston had anything to do with Islam?  Or Sharia?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I notice you provide no links about how American Citizens WANT to welcome foreign Muslims into the United States.  Opinion unsupported by facts, who does that make stupid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You actually posted that?
Click to expand...


*First of all, you are unable to provide links to support your argument,* so you turn to name calling.  A sign that you are out of relevant things to say.  No surprise here.  Next you misuse or overstate words, such as "cretin"  I have provided the definition here so you can correct your understanding of the English language.  Cretinism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You do realize that the use of* large letters* on an internet post is the equivalent of shouting.  Obviously, this is necessary because *YOU ARE NOT LISTENING TO THE OBVIOUS.*


> What part of;
> *"No foreign Muslims in the United States, no Boston Marathon Bombing,"*​ don't you understand?


Muslim and Jihad are a disease that must be stomped out like cancer.  Natural born Americans understand this threat.   Third world barbarian Muslims do not see the obvious.  You people just don't fit in to America, you are unable to assimilate.  You have damaged the United States, and your contribution to this country is questionable.  I have asked Muslims to tell us about their contribution to America several times, and received nothing significant.  Time to leave, Alibaba, you know you do not belong here.  No thinking person is interested in your ignorant blather about the Koran.  Take your propaganda with you when you leave.  You are America's enemy.


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Try reading before you post, I am tired of repeating myself for lazy posters.This was covered in post #17 above by me.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, one of these cretins who thinks posting *real big* will somehow make his point work.  Amusing.
> 
> While you're out there hunting down bigger and bolder fonts, here's what you forgot:
> What part of Boston had anything to do with Islam?  Or Sharia?
> 
> 
> 
> You actually posted that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *First of all, you are unable to provide links to support your argument,* so you turn to name calling.  A sign that you are out of relevant things to say.  No surprise here.  Next you misuse or overstate words, such as "cretin"  I have provided the definition here so you can correct your understanding of the English language.  Cretinism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> You do realize that the use of* large letters* on an internet post is the equivalent of shouting.  Obviously, this is necessary because *YOU ARE NOT LISTENING TO THE OBVIOUS.*
> 
> 
> 
> What part of;
> "No foreign Muslims in the United States, no Boston Marathon Bombing,"​ don't you understand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Muslim and Jihad are a disease that must be stomped out like cancer.  Natural born Americans understand this threat.   Third world barbarian Muslims do not see the obvious.  You people just don't fit in to America, you are unable to assimilate.  You have damaged the United States, and your contribution to this country is questionable.  I have asked Muslims to tell us about their contribution to America several times, and received nothing significant.  Time to leave, Alibaba, you know you do not belong here.  No thinking person is interested in your ignorant blather about the Koran.  Take your propaganda with you when you leave.  You are America's enemy.
Click to expand...


Wow.  

See the words with the lines under them in post 33?  Those ARE my links.  Your inability to click them is beyond my control.  I can only lead the horse to water; can't make him think.  See, I link to document _my own_ points -- not selected words somebody else just posted.  That's kind of stupid.

And I'm a Muslim now?  
If ignorance is bliss, you must be absolutely euphoric.

"Alibaba"??  "Muslim are a disease"??
Wow.


----------



## Pogo

You actually think if it's on Google Images then it can't be photoshopped?   I can see right on the page where some of the original sign writing has been whited out.  You have set new standards for density.   And oh yeah.. "Surfdom"??  Dumb fuck.

>> start reading/watching the news. You are ill-informed. << 
-- because nothing says 'informed' like... TV news, right?  Beyond belief.

You and your self-centered arrogant knuckledragging xenophobia from the shallow end of the gene puddle are the antithesis of what this country stands for and an embarrassing infection on it.  So being nothing but dead weight, here's an idea; go live in North Fucking Korea where you can have your racial/religious "purity".  A nice homogenous society where everybody's made of ticky-tacky and they all look just the same, and independent thought is heavily discouraged.  Your kinda place.  Serf's up, dood.


----------



## Pogo

asaratis said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Horse shit!  You are delusional if you think a lot of people agree with you.  While technically correct, your ridiculous scenario does not warrant discussion....and you should drop the use of asinine photoshop bullshit pictures...loon!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look how angry you are?  It makes me laugh.  You are going to defend third world tribal barbarians in our Western democracy?  Sorry, the facts are well known, and speak for themselves.
> 
> The photo you criticize is not a photo shop.  In fact here is the page from Google Images of Muslim Demonstrations.  In your make-believe world you might not have seen these images, but those of us who watch network television news each day see it all the time.  Here are thousands of photos of Muslims making trouble with their bull shit. https://www.google.com/search?q=foreign+muslims&client=firefox-a&hs=9g&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=jDZ3Uc-PJYjM2QXNqYDYAQ&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=1058#client=firefox-a&hs=ph&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=muslim+demonstrators&oq=muslim+demonstrators&gs_l=img.12...13312.20360.2.22369.48.26.0.5.5.9.140.2142.20j5.25.0...0.0...1c.1.11.img.n9VwCefx1lc&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45580626,d.b2I&fp=86bb72eaab372f7b&biw=1920&bih=1058 America is not going to put up with this much longer.  Muslims have  less than1% of the vote in the United States, and the other 99% of us are tired of your bull shit.  Foreign Muslims may look like human beings, but they are just cattle, brainwashed by their cheap substitute of the_ Bible_.  Get current.  Stop writing in this forum, and start reading/watching the news.  You are ill-informed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dream on, loon!  I am not angry at all...just pointing out your lunacy and disingenuous bullshit....and definitely I am not defending radicals.
> 
> If you can't tell in two seconds that the picture has been altered, you are truly a dupe.
> 
> Go spank your monkey and stop cluttering the forums with bullshit threads.
Click to expand...


It's got to be an act.  No one could really be this stupid.


----------



## Gracie

> The more we get rid of the fewer we have to worry about



And just how do you propose to do this IF it were to be done, genius?


----------



## Gracie

Beachboy said:


> hazlnut said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *......there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  Duh!
> 
> This is not rocket science.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And if we didn't allow your parents, we'd never have to hear your nonsense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, in order to do that you are going to have to go back about three hundred years on my father's side of the family, and 140 years on my mother's side.  I think it is safe to say no one will be questioning the Americanism of my family tree.
> 
> You can make all the noise you want.  You simply do not understand who really owns this country. * Hint*, those who built it, still own it.  Where was your family during the signing of the Declaration of Independence, picking potatoes in a surfdom?
Click to expand...


Um..hate to break it to ya but Native Americans owned this country...until Europeans came over and passed out small pox laden blankies.


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> You actually think if it's on Google Images then it can't be photoshopped?   I can see right on the page where some of the original sign writing has been whited out.  You have set new standards for density.   And oh yeah.. "Surfdom"??  Dumb fuck.
> 
> >> start reading/watching the news. You are ill-informed. <<
> -- because nothing says 'informed' like... TV news, right?  Beyond belief.
> 
> You and your self-centered arrogant knuckledragging xenophobia from the shallow end of the gene puddle are the antithesis of what this country stands for and an embarrassing infection on it.  So being nothing but dead weight, here's an idea; go live in North Fucking Korea where you can have your racial/religious "purity".  A nice homogenous society where everybody's made of ticky-tacky and they all look just the same, and independent thought is heavily discouraged.  Your kinda place.  Serf's up, dood.



Yeah, yeah yeah, we Americans are all bigot.  Truth is you have nothing to defend yourself with against my allegations. 

There are hundreds of pics of foreign Muslims making trouble in Google.  Trust me they were not all Photoshopped.  You simply can not accept the truth that foreign Muslims are third world animals incapable of catching up to Western thought.  You forget American see foreign Muslims every night on television news.  

So, we will do as the Russians have done, keep foreign Muslims on a short leash, and treat them like the cattle they are.

You must understand foreign Muslims should not be an American problem.  Deport them.  Problem solved.


----------



## Beachboy

asaratis said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Horse shit!  You are delusional if you think a lot of people agree with you.  While technically correct, your ridiculous scenario does not warrant discussion....and you should drop the use of asinine photoshop bullshit pictures...loon!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look how angry you are?  It makes me laugh.  You are going to defend third world tribal barbarians in our Western democracy?  Sorry, the facts are well known, and speak for themselves.
> 
> The photo you criticize is not a photo shop.  In fact here is the page from Google Images of Muslim Demonstrations.  In your make-believe world you might not have seen these images, but those of us who watch network television news each day see it all the time.  Here are thousands of photos of Muslims making trouble with their bull shit. https://www.google.com/search?q=for...6,d.b2I&fp=86bb72eaab372f7b&biw=1920&bih=1058 America is not going to put up with this much longer.  Muslims have  less than1% of the vote in the United States, and the other 99% of us are tired of your bull shit.  Foreign Muslims may look like human beings, but they are just cattle, brainwashed by their cheap substitute of the_ Bible_.  Get current.  Stop writing in this forum, and start reading/watching the news.  You are ill-informed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dream on, loon!  I am not angry at all...just pointing out your lunacy and disingenuous bullshit....and definitely I am not defending radicals.
> 
> If you can't tell in two seconds that the picture has been altered, you are truly a dupe.
> 
> Go spank your monkey and stop cluttering the forums with bullshit threads.
Click to expand...


Again, name calling is the last resort of those who have no intelligent argument.  In school we were taught there are two sides to every story.  Today we know that is not true.  For example what is the up side of pedaphilia?  There is none.  What is the up side of foreign Muslims?  There is none.


----------



## Beachboy

Gracie said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hazlnut said:
> 
> 
> 
> And if we didn't allow your parents, we'd never have to hear your nonsense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, in order to do that you are going to have to go back about three hundred years on my father's side of the family, and 140 years on my mother's side.  I think it is safe to say no one will be questioning the Americanism of my family tree.
> 
> You can make all the noise you want.  You simply do not understand who really owns this country. * Hint*, those who built it, still own it.  Where was your family during the signing of the Declaration of Independence, picking potatoes in a surfdom?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um..hate to break it to ya but Native Americans owned this country...until Europeans came over and passed out small pox laden blankies.
Click to expand...


And, it was not right either.  Both sides did some nasty things.  But, he who wins the war makes the rules, and that is the way it has always been on this planet.  

We give Native Americans practically free housing, and free medical care.  260 Native American tribes own casinos generating* $27 BILLIION a year* in revenue.  I'd say they came out all right.


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> You actually think if it's on Google Images then it can't be photoshopped?   I can see right on the page where some of the original sign writing has been whited out.  You have set new standards for density.   And oh yeah.. "Surfdom"??  Dumb fuck.
> 
> >> start reading/watching the news. You are ill-informed. <<
> -- because nothing says 'informed' like... TV news, right?  Beyond belief.
> 
> You and your self-centered arrogant knuckledragging xenophobia from the shallow end of the gene puddle are the antithesis of what this country stands for and an embarrassing infection on it.  So being nothing but dead weight, here's an idea; go live in North Fucking Korea where you can have your racial/religious "purity".  A nice homogenous society where everybody's made of ticky-tacky and they all look just the same, and independent thought is heavily discouraged.  Your kinda place.  Serf's up, dood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, yeah yeah, we Americans are all bigot.
Click to expand...


"We"???

You're completely alone here, bimbo-boy.


----------



## Unkotare

Beachboy said:


> Yeah, yeah yeah, we Americans are all bigot.  ...





What's this "we" stuff? You're no American.


----------



## blackcherry

Beachboy said:


> there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  Duh!



Very funny Topic . 
Trust you have the required sense of humour to continue it with wit and aplomb .
Must say the growing evidence of a False Flag somewhat undermines your jokey proposition .


----------



## Wildman

Truthmatters said:


> there are muslims buried at arlington.
> 
> 
> You spit on the graves of our heros



*show the proof.., or you LIE !!*


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> You actually think if it's on Google Images then it can't be photoshopped?   I can see right on the page where some of the original sign writing has been whited out.  You have set new standards for density.   And oh yeah.. "Surfdom"??  Dumb fuck.
> 
> >> start reading/watching the news. You are ill-informed. <<
> -- because nothing says 'informed' like... TV news, right?  Beyond belief.
> 
> You and your self-centered arrogant knuckledragging xenophobia from the shallow end of the gene puddle are the antithesis of what this country stands for and an embarrassing infection on it.  So being nothing but dead weight, here's an idea; go live in North Fucking Korea where you can have your racial/religious "purity".  A nice homogenous society where everybody's made of ticky-tacky and they all look just the same, and independent thought is heavily discouraged.  Your kinda place.  Serf's up, dood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, yeah yeah, we Americans are all bigot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "We"???
> 
> You're completely alone here, bimbo-boy.
Click to expand...


I realize it is sad to laugh at you, but you really are mis-informed.  Apparently, you are not watching the television network news everyday.  Here, for example is CBS from last night.  I happened to watch it, NBC, and CNN yesterday.  The stories are loaded with hatred toward Muslims.  Breaking News Headlines: Business, Entertainment & World News - CBS News  This is because the facts speak for themselves.

Then I come in to USMB, and there are one or two fanatics like you posting in USMB who have no understanding at all at what is going on in the real world.   I show you pictures of "Islam will rule the world" and you call it photoshop.  USMB is laughing AT you.

I am not about to waste anymore time trying to discuss with someone who is out of touch with reality, and selling their agenda poorly.  Ever since 9/11.  Ever since the Mosque at ground zero, Americans have realized that your kind are just bad news.  You have been given a chance here, and you have blown it.

Now, if you had any brains at all, you would learn to use the media to shed a light on the positive side of your people.  But, you would rather argue with me.  The American people watch foreign Muslims on television news, and say "Barbarians with a fake Bible trying to take over the world."  That IS the impression you have created of yourself.  Don't blame me.  I just point out the facts.

Got to tell you fellow, no one is standing up for your crowd.  We see you as the problem.  If you are not bright enough to pick up on that reality, just keep doing what your doing until the day the FBI and INS show up at your door and tell you to head back to the third world.  America is not going to put up with any more of your uninformed Koran crap.  Ask anyone who saw what happened in Boston.  You have been found "Guilty" in the media.








Wnen Muslims went nuts because of a cartoon, they went against the basic premise of the First Amendment to the U. S. Constitution.  
We stopped listening to you at that point.  The Russians are correct, you are animals that must be herded like cattle with a short leash.​


----------



## Beachboy

Truthmatters said:


> there are muslims buried at arlington.
> 
> 
> You spit on the graves of our heros





Wildman said:


> *show the proof.., or you LIE !!*




*This is the third time you have been asked to produce a link on this.  Guess you are just another hit and run poster with no facts to support a thing you say.*


----------



## Unkotare

Beachboy said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is why people won't post with you.  You hit me with;
> 
> 
> 
> I address you politely, (and basically put you in your place as a nobody), and you lash back against the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Very Special Person:
> 
> Congratulations on being recognized as a super-duper important person in America. This is a really, really big honor and you should feel very special and important. In order to include you in our big, big book of special and important people please fill out this information we will sell to every mailing list in the world and send $59.99 for your very, very special edition of "Who's Who." Who's who? Why, YOU are, of course! In fact, you are so special that we are making additional copies available to you (suitable for birthday and Christmas presents) at a low, low price. Since you are very special and important you should take advantage of this special and important offer now. When your rich uncle in Nigeria dies and leaves you lots of money, just send his lawyers your bank account information so they can wire you his fortune and then you can buy even more copies of this special and important book of special and important rubes...er...people like you. Once again, congratulations sucke...I mean very special person!
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, a copy of "Who's Who in America" costs a lot more than $60, try $592.  .
Click to expand...



Ah, you're even more of a sucker than I thought. Congratulations, special person!


----------



## Beachboy

So much for the Unkotar noise machine.

*If anyone is interested in getting back on topic, here is the OP.*



Beachboy said:


> *
> *......there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  Duh!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​ This is not rocket science.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


----------



## Beachboy

Stanton said:


> Well, here's a hint. The number of Muslims who have committed or attempted to commit acts of terrorism number barely in the dozens.
> 
> Yeah! They are! Just like the incidents between the Oklahoma City bombings and the Unabomber's mail bombs are way too many. And yet, somehow, I'm not seeing you shake down paranoid liberals or white people. Why not? Clearly, we have a tiny minority despised by the overwhelming majority who are killing people. They are not representative and what you are proposing would punish _millions_ to catch a handful.



You talk like the word "racist" from you is a big sting.  Not so.  I have already written off your politics.  The word "racist" from third worlders like you mean nothing, and to some degree they are a compliment!

Oklahoma City and the Unibomber are American problems.  Muslim foreigners, are problems we can dispose of easily.  The more we get rid of, the more attention we can pay to problems we are responsible for.  Muslims don't "get" America.  When that ground zero Mosque hit the news, Donald Trump offered Muslims more money than the land was worth to make the problem go away.   Muslims stood up and demanded their rights, and they got them.  Now we knew, they did not want to be neighborly, they "demanded their rights."  Now we are going to _give them_ their rights, and along with that goes the national media coverage of every screw up they make.  Americans are angry, and television news reminds them every night.  "You see a Muslim foreigner, kick them.  Because that is what they have already done to us in our own country.  Kick them enough, and they go back to the old country."  

How would any of us like to be a Muslim applying for a job in Boston this week?  What do you think of a foreign Muslim's chance of getting hired in the United States today?  And it will stay that way.


----------



## Beachboy

gabriel1 said:


> im just glad there so many foreigners here to watch this.



Good, maybe they will enjoy this friendly reminder of foreign Muslims on 9/11?


----------



## asaratis

Beachboy said:


> So much for the Unkotar noise machine.
> 
> *If anyone is interested in getting back on topic, here is the OP.*
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *......there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  Duh!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​ This is not rocket science.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...

Apparently, only you are interested in keeping this tripe thread alive.  Give it a rest, dude!


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, yeah yeah, we Americans are all bigot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "We"???
> 
> You're completely alone here, bimbo-boy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I realize it is sad to laugh at you, but you really are mis-informed.  Apparently, you are not watching the television network news everyday.  Here, for example is CBS from last night.  I happened to watch it, NBC, and CNN yesterday.  The stories are loaded with hatred toward Muslims.  Breaking News Headlines: Business, Entertainment & World News - CBS News  This is because the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Then I come in to USMB, and there are one or two fanatics like you posting in USMB who have no understanding at all at what is going on in the real world.   I show you pictures of "Islam will rule the world" and you call it photoshop.  USMB is laughing AT you.
> 
> I am not about to waste anymore time trying to discuss with someone who is out of touch with reality, and selling their agenda poorly.  Ever since 9/11.  Ever since the Mosque at ground zero, Americans have realized that your kind are just bad news.  You have been given a chance here, and you have blown it.
> 
> Now, if you had any brains at all, you would learn to use the media to shed a light on the positive side of your people.  But, you would rather argue with me.  The American people watch foreign Muslims on television news, and say "Barbarians with a fake Bible trying to take over the world."  That IS the impression you have created of yourself.  Don't blame me.  I just point out the facts.
> 
> Got to tell you fellow, no one is standing up for your crowd.  We see you as the problem.  If you are not bright enough to pick up on that reality, just keep doing what your doing until the day the FBI and INS show up at your door and tell you to head back to the third world.  America is not going to put up with any more of your uninformed Koran crap.  Ask anyone who saw what happened in Boston.  You have been found "Guilty" in the media.
> 
> 
> Wnen Muslims went nuts because of a cartoon, they went against the basic premise of the First Amendment to the U. S. Constitution.
> We stopped listening to you at that point.  The Russians are correct, you are animals that must be herded like cattle with a short leash.
Click to expand...


Go fuck yourself surfboy.

Guess you haven't noticed while you're so busy ejaculating to the sight of your own name in the Who's Who of Trolls, but you're the one sweating out all the rambling incoherent verbal diarrhea.
Duh.

"Your people"??  "television news"??  "Ground Zero Mosque""??? There is not a black hole in all the scripts of Star Trek big enough to contain the depths of your abject and bottomless ignorance.


----------



## Hossfly

Pogo said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a silly fuckin' thing to say.  This entire country is descended from immigrants...except for the native American Indians that were fucked out of their homeland by European immigrants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, it is precisely that kind of ignorance that has this country in the mess we are in.  Prior to 1960 the typical American immigrant was from Europe, and had European customs.  They came to the United States looking for opportunity, not a hand out.  All you need do is look at the accomplishments of Eastern Europeans and Italians to understand this.
> 
> Then it all changed, we began bringing in the third world types who were tribalistic animals that do not understand Western democracy.  But they did understand the welfare handout that previous immigrants had not enjoyed.   What contributions have you seen to America from foreign Muslims?  Anything noteworthy?  You can't name a thing can you?
> 
> Now immigrants have always caused problems for host countries, but we would not have had 911 or the Boston Marathon Bombing if we had not let these third world barbarians into our nation.  Johnny Jihad is here to push the agenda of the Koran.  Muslim is a religion that opposes everything America stands for.  Yet we stupid Americans continue to offer a generous hand, to the point we are letting third world foreigner Muslims destroy our  very country.  These people do not want to assimilate to America, they want to give us the "gift of their ignorant, anti-American religion."  This is why there were dead bodies all over Boston and New York.  Am I getting through to you at all?  Or, are you just sitting in our politically correct, leftest bubble with your head up your ass?
> 
> 
> We should have figured this out when they insisted on building a Mosque near ground zero.  Certainly not a friendly way to join the American community.  Deport all foreign Muslims.  We don't have to put up with this shit in the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That mosque has been there since way before 9/11, and is a Sufi congregation, which has nothing to do with Wahabbism except as adversaries.  DUH.
> 
> The Asian immigrants who built the railroads across this country might be startled to learn they had "European customs".  DOUBLE DUH.
> 
> However I must admit, your inane OP does have a point; had we refused entry to "Muslim foreigners", the kids involved would not have been here to do what they did.  We'd have to rely on homegrown terrorists like Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins, Reverend Paul Jennings Hill, John Salvi, Eric Rudolph, Martin Uphoff, Patricia Hughes, Jeremy Dunahoe, Paul Ross Evans, Bobby Joe Rogers, or Francis Grady.
> 
> What a difference that would have made, huh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hard to believe minds like this get to vote... smh
> 
> BTW how come you bigots only see terrorists in terms of religion when they're Muslim?  Not to mention when they haven't used their religion as a pretext, in contrast to the entire list of Christians above?
> 
> (no DUH big enough for this one...)
Click to expand...

Any particular reason you left out homegrown terrorists, Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn?


----------



## Roudy

Beachboy said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typically, the wing-nuts come right out of the woodwork.  Did I say   "Muslims" or "Foreign Muslims" in the OP?  Did I say anything about   people of any religion NOT being buried anywhere?  Did anyone see me   spit on anyone else?  No not at all.
> 
> Then people wonder why my signature is says I am "pissed off."  Once we   get rid of and keep out the "foreign Muslims" we can go to work on the   incredible stupidity of  some American voters.  These people are so  dumb  they don't even vote for their own best interest!​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're new here.  TM is the dumbest shit-for-brains liberal we have   here.  Best thing you can do is just laugh at the stupidity of people   like her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you for the input, I will make note of TM.
> 
> These people who can not think for themselves are really irritating,   which is why I am pointing out that I have been a Republican and a   Democrat, but today I am simply pissed at both of parties.
> 
> I will save my remarks on Republicans for another time.  The left is   running around like chickens with their heads cut off. They are so   worried about being "Politically Correct," or protecting someone's   "civil rights" that they miss the obvious.  Did you know that La Raza   did a successful campaign to get television stations to drop the word   "Wetback" and "Illegal Alien" to replace it with the word "Migrant?"    Wouldn't want to offend the freeloaders would we?
> 
> Hell President Eisenhower's deportation program was called in official   government documents, "Operation Wetback."  But, today it is not PC to   call these INVADERS "Wetbacks" or "foreign Muslims" who come to the   United States to bleed our welfare, education, and health care system   dry.  Now with they are cocky and tell natural born U. S. citizens that   we owe them, and should thank them for building more slums.
> 
> So, next comes the post from some ultra-liberal or even or foreign   Muslim calling me a "racist."  Forget that one side of my family has   been here over 300 years!*
> 
> The Boston Marathon Bombing was preventable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *.*
> *
Click to expand...

The Boston Bombing was preventable, if the arrogant assholes running the FBI weren't so incompetent.


----------



## Unkotare

Beachboy said:


> How would any of us like to be a Muslim applying for a job in Boston this week?  ]





If they were the most qualified candidate and had a good resume and background, they'd get the job of course.


----------



## sfcalifornia

*If we did not allow Muslim foreigners into the United States...........*

...we'd be xenophobes in violation of the First Amendment.

Not gonna happen no matter how much you wish for it.


----------



## sfcalifornia

Beachboy said:


> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *......there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  Duh!
> 
> 
> This is not rocket science.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we did not allow immigrants into this country, there would be no Boston.
> 
> 
> Duh!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> there are muslims buried at arlington.
> 
> 
> You spit on the graves of our heros
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Typically, the wing-nuts come right out of the woodwork.  Did I say "Muslims" or "Foreign Muslims" in the OP?  Did I say anything about people of any religion NOT being buried anywhere?  Did anyone see me spit on anyone else?  No not at all.
> 
> Then people wonder why my signature is says I am "pissed off."  Once we get rid of and keep out the "foreign Muslims" we can go to work on the incredible stupidity of  some American voters.  These people are so dumb they don't even vote for their own best interest!​
Click to expand...


Proposing we ban an entire population from entering the country based on their religious belief because of the actions of a handful of extremists doesn't qualify _you _as a wing-nut?

I will agree on one thing:  there's some incredible stupidity in this country.  What you don't realize is that stupidity is coming from you.


----------



## Beachboy

What foreign Muslims, and apparently all Muslims, do not understand is that in the United States it is not the courts, or the government whose opinion counts, it is the television viewers.  The parents of the Boston Marathon bombers have given us a plethora of material to hate foreign Muslims even more.  Every night we get the latest on what the government has proven against the bombers.  After those facts have been told, the denial of the parents is shown.  No one is believing a word of what they say.  

This utube is from ABC News yesterday.  I could not ask for more ammunition get Americans to hate foreign Muslims.  First, the mother wears traditional Muslim garb, which makes her look like a Halloween Zombie.  Then she gets hysterical *denying facts* Americans already know.  Message sent - Muslims are unstable, uneducated, violent people.  Then comes the mother's third rate acting skills.  Add it all together with their lies, and American hate foreign Muslims even more.  

Now the mother could get arrested if she came to the United States, and if she does that will fill *at least two more weeks of televison news* in America's living room.  We don't have to generate hated of foreign Muslims, you demonize yourselves better than we ever could.  You are hanging yourselves in the eyes of the world, and I could not be happier!  Trust me mine is by far the majority opinion of foreign Muslims in the United States, and with our allies.

​ 
​


----------



## Pogo

Hossfly said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, it is precisely that kind of ignorance that has this country in the mess we are in.  Prior to 1960 the typical American immigrant was from Europe, and had European customs.  They came to the United States looking for opportunity, not a hand out.  All you need do is look at the accomplishments of Eastern Europeans and Italians to understand this.
> 
> Then it all changed, we began bringing in the third world types who were tribalistic animals that do not understand Western democracy.  But they did understand the welfare handout that previous immigrants had not enjoyed.   What contributions have you seen to America from foreign Muslims?  Anything noteworthy?  You can't name a thing can you?
> 
> Now immigrants have always caused problems for host countries, but we would not have had 911 or the Boston Marathon Bombing if we had not let these third world barbarians into our nation.  Johnny Jihad is here to push the agenda of the Koran.  Muslim is a religion that opposes everything America stands for.  Yet we stupid Americans continue to offer a generous hand, to the point we are letting third world foreigner Muslims destroy our  very country.  These people do not want to assimilate to America, they want to give us the "gift of their ignorant, anti-American religion."  This is why there were dead bodies all over Boston and New York.  Am I getting through to you at all?  Or, are you just sitting in our politically correct, leftest bubble with your head up your ass?
> 
> 
> We should have figured this out when they insisted on building a Mosque near ground zero.  Certainly not a friendly way to join the American community.  Deport all foreign Muslims.  We don't have to put up with this shit in the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That mosque has been there since way before 9/11, and is a Sufi congregation, which has nothing to do with Wahabbism except as adversaries.  DUH.
> 
> The Asian immigrants who built the railroads across this country might be startled to learn they had "European customs".  DOUBLE DUH.
> 
> However I must admit, your inane OP does have a point; had we refused entry to "Muslim foreigners", the kids involved would not have been here to do what they did.  We'd have to rely on homegrown terrorists like Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins, Reverend Paul Jennings Hill, John Salvi, Eric Rudolph, Martin Uphoff, Patricia Hughes, Jeremy Dunahoe, Paul Ross Evans, Bobby Joe Rogers, or Francis Grady.
> 
> What a difference that would have made, huh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hard to believe minds like this get to vote... smh
> 
> BTW how come you bigots only see terrorists in terms of religion when they're Muslim?  Not to mention when they haven't used their religion as a pretext, in contrast to the entire list of Christians above?
> 
> (no DUH big enough for this one...)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Any particular reason you left out homegrown terrorists, Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn?
Click to expand...


Yeah, a couple of reasons: it wasn't intended as either (a) a comprehensive list, nor (b) to cover all of historical time.

Tim McVeigh would have been contemporary enough but I left him off too because he, as well as Ayers and Dohrn, had no known religious basis for what they did, whereas the OP cretin seems to have hung himself up on everything being about Islam, so McVeigh, Ayers and Dohrn wouldn't have made an apples to apples comparison.

Not that any of it seeped through the mind-fog of the cretin...

For that matter I have yet to see any evidence that Boston had a basis in religion either.  And I asked the OP a while back to show how 9/11 was a religious rather than a political event.  Needless to say I got nothing but crickets, incoherent rambling about what's on the television fucking news and caterwauling about how his family's been here a hunnard years.


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> You actually think if it's on Google Images then it can't be photoshopped?   I can see right on the page where some of the original sign writing has been whited out.  You have set new standards for density.   And oh yeah.. "Surfdom"??  Dumb fuck.
> 
> >> start reading/watching the news. You are ill-informed. <<
> -- because nothing says 'informed' like... TV news, right?  Beyond belief.
> 
> You and your self-centered arrogant knuckledragging xenophobia from the shallow end of the gene puddle are the antithesis of what this country stands for and an embarrassing infection on it.  So being nothing but dead weight, here's an idea; go live in North Fucking Korea where you can have your racial/religious "purity".  A nice homogenous society where everybody's made of ticky-tacky and they all look just the same, and independent thought is heavily discouraged.  Your kinda place.  Serf's up, dood.



As usual, a reading comprehension problem.  I did not say Google images could not be Photoshopped.  You think anything that disagrees with Muslims is a conspiracy.  And, you might not be far off considering Muslim violence.  Clearly, the Muslims in this forum are not watching network television news.  You idiots have demonized YOURSELVES in the eyes of the American public.  Keep it up, it makes our job easier.  Every night you look more and more like fanatics and traitors.  Muslims have started losing their jobs, everyone wants you out of the country.  You refuse to take responsibility and make amends for the Boston Marathon bombing.  You will be feeling a lot more pain.   Network news will have a field day when the mother of those Muslim bombers gets here.  We have a lot of guns in America, someone will shoot her to the applause of a grateful nation.

 You are a guy trying to defend the indefensible.  Dirty bombs designed to inflict human carnage killed three Americans in one of our founding colonies.  The price all Muslims will pay will be very high.

 You see I can take this all back to the OP any time I want because you can not refute the fact;

*No foreign Muslims in the United States, no Boston Marathon bombing.*
​ 
It is just that simple, and you can already sense that America is going to use this as another reason to kick Muslims.  Allow me the privilege of being one of the first in this forum.  I truly enjoy dedicating my internet time to outing traitors.























​


----------



## Pogo

Well since he can't read, maybe pictures are the way to go...









Oh wait, he worships "the television news".  Let's do that-- 





​


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

> If we did not allow Muslim foreigners into the United States...........



we wouldnt be the United States.


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> ......Tim McVeigh would have been contemporary enough but I left him off too because he, as well as Ayers and Dohrn, had no known religious basis for what they did, whereas the OP cretin seems to have hung himself up on everything being about Islam.......





Pogo said:


> Not that any of it seeped through the mind-fog of the cretin...
> 
> For that matter I have yet to see any evidence that Boston had a basis in religion either.  And I asked the OP a while back to show how 9/11 was a religious rather than a political event.  Needless to say I got nothing but crickets, incoherent rambling about what's on the television fucking news and caterwauling about how his family's been here a hunnard years.



I have mentioned this at least a half dozen times, and am considering putting  you on "ignore."  You do not read the posts of others.  You jump in saying what you want to say.

And, you are not watching American television news which is American reality.  Remember what Joe Kennedy said, "The actual facts don't really matter, it is the public's PERCEPTION of the situation that counts."  You still have not figured this out, not bright enough I guess.




​ 
When the United States gets rid of the Muslim foreigners we will have more time to focus on American terrorists who are our responsibility.  Just take 9/11 and the Boston Marathon, if we could get rid of those troublemakers which are not our problem, we could get a lot more done.  A green card is an easy thing to revoke.

Clearly, you are not very knowledgable about how to use the English language.  Will write that off to your substandard, third world education.  Pack your bags, rag head!




​


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

Beachboy said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......Tim McVeigh would have been contemporary enough but I left him off too because he, as well as Ayers and Dohrn, had no known religious basis for what they did, whereas the OP cretin seems to have hung himself up on everything being about Islam.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not that any of it seeped through the mind-fog of the cretin...
> 
> For that matter I have yet to see any evidence that Boston had a basis in religion either.  And I asked the OP a while back to show how 9/11 was a religious rather than a political event.  Needless to say I got nothing but crickets, incoherent rambling about what's on the television fucking news and caterwauling about how his family's been here a hunnard years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have mentioned this at least a half dozen times, and am considering putting  you on "ignore."  You do not read the posts of others.  You jump in saying what you want to say.
> 
> And, you are not watching American television news which is American reality.  Remember what Joe Kennedy said, "The actual facts don't really matter, it is the public's PERCEPTION of the situation that counts."  You still have not figured this out, not bright enough I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> *When the United States gets rid of the Muslim foreigners* we will have more time to focus on American terrorists who are our responsibility.  Just take 9/11 and the Boston Marathon, if we could get rid of those troublemakers which are not our problem, we could get a lot more done.  A green card is an easy thing to revoke.
> 
> Clearly, you are not very knowledgable about how to use the English language.  Will write that off to your substandard, third world education.  Pack your bags, rag head!
Click to expand...


Absent due process, of course.


----------



## Beachboy

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......Tim McVeigh would have been contemporary enough but I left him off too because he, as well as Ayers and Dohrn, had no known religious basis for what they did, whereas the OP cretin seems to have hung himself up on everything being about Islam.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not that any of it seeped through the mind-fog of the cretin...
> 
> For that matter I have yet to see any evidence that Boston had a basis in religion either.  And I asked the OP a while back to show how 9/11 was a religious rather than a political event.  Needless to say I got nothing but crickets, incoherent rambling about what's on the television fucking news and caterwauling about how his family's been here a hunnard years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have mentioned this at least a half dozen times, and am considering putting  you on "ignore."  You do not read the posts of others.  You jump in saying what you want to say.
> 
> And, you are not watching American television news which is American reality.  Remember what Joe Kennedy said, "The actual facts don't really matter, it is the public's PERCEPTION of the situation that counts."  You still have not figured this out, not bright enough I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> *When the United States gets rid of the Muslim foreigners* we will have more time to focus on American terrorists who are our responsibility.  Just take 9/11 and the Boston Marathon, if we could get rid of those troublemakers which are not our problem, we could get a lot more done.  A green card is an easy thing to revoke.
> 
> Clearly, you are not very knowledgable about how to use the English language.  Will write that off to your substandard, third world education.  Pack your bags, rag head!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absent due process, of course.
Click to expand...


That is the fun of a democratic government.  Due process is whatever we say it is.  The definition can change overnight like it did after 9/11 and the Patriot Act.  We have Gitmo for a reason, and Muslims are a big part of it.


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> Well since he can't read, maybe pictures are the way to go...
> ​



Wow, I never thought you would come out and betray your own stupidity like this.  Television and the media in general provide Americans with most of their information.  If you had studied media, you would know that the CFR was formed in 1917 by a group of businessmen who figured out that they could protect their investments by controlling the editorial polices of 27 newspapers nationally.  Since the the CFR has expanded into all media globally.  

He who control the media wins.  Muslims think that he who controls that Jihad holy book of yours runs things.  Not so, not in 21st century Western culture.  Muslims are marginalized because they can not think for themselves.  They do what they are told to do, and we keep killing off their leaders with our drones until we eventually get the leaders we want.  We are not worried, but we are in a hurry to put you in your place as the Russians have so effectively done.






Oh, let's escalate this discussion to another level..  America can destroy anyone we like without jeopardizing an American life.  
Hell, the pilot can be home for supper with his wife and kids after a day of killing Muslims.  Bottom line, our way or die.  
That's the future you insisted on.  You just can't learn your place at the bottom of the food chain.​


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

Beachboy said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> I have mentioned this at least a half dozen times, and am considering putting  you on "ignore."  You do not read the posts of others.  You jump in saying what you want to say.
> 
> And, you are not watching American television news which is American reality.  Remember what Joe Kennedy said, "The actual facts don't really matter, it is the public's PERCEPTION of the situation that counts."  You still have not figured this out, not bright enough I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> *When the United States gets rid of the Muslim foreigners* we will have more time to focus on American terrorists who are our responsibility.  Just take 9/11 and the Boston Marathon, if we could get rid of those troublemakers which are not our problem, we could get a lot more done.  A green card is an easy thing to revoke.
> 
> Clearly, you are not very knowledgable about how to use the English language.  Will write that off to your substandard, third world education.  Pack your bags, rag head!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absent due process, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is the fun of a democratic government.  Due process is whatever we say it is.  The definition can change overnight like it did after 9/11 and the Patriot Act.  We have Gitmo for a reason, and Muslims are a big part of it.
Click to expand...


Fortunately were not a democracy.


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well since he can't read, maybe pictures are the way to go...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh wait, he worships "the television news".  Let's do that--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, I never thought you would come out and betray your own stupidity like this.  Television and the media in general provide Ameicans with most of their information.  If you had studied media, you would know that the CFR was formed in 1917 by a group of businessmen who figured out that they could protect their investments by controlling the editorial polices of 27 newspapers nationally.  Since the the CFR has expanded into all media globally.
> 
> He who control the media wins.  Muslims think that he who controls that Jihad holy book of yours runs things.  Not so, not in 21st century Western culture.  Muslims are marginalized because they do what they are told to do, and we keep killing off their leaders with our drones until we get the ones we want.  We are not worried, but we are in a hurry to put you in your place as the Russians have so effectively done.
Click to expand...


I've _*worked *_in media for three decades, you pathetic synaptical black hole.  I was working with the CFR long before you were formed from whatever sperm forgot to spill on the back seat.


----------



## Beachboy

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absent due process, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is the fun of a democratic government.  Due process is whatever we say it is.  The definition can change overnight like it did after 9/11 and the Patriot Act.  We have Gitmo for a reason, and Muslims are a big part of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fortunately were not a democracy.
Click to expand...


What do you mean "WE?"  If you are an American you are a traitor.

I guess us old American families think of ourselves as a democracy, when in fact we are a Republic.  Apparently, you have the time to split hairs.  I don't.


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well since he can't read, maybe pictures are the way to go...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, I never thought you would come out and betray your own stupidity like this.  Television and the media in general provide Ameicans with most of their information.  If you had studied media, you would know that the CFR was formed in 1917 by a group of businessmen who figured out that they could protect their investments by controlling the editorial polices of 27 newspapers nationally.  Since the the CFR has expanded into all media globally.
> 
> He who control the media wins.  Muslims think that he who controls that Jihad holy book of yours runs things.  Not so, not in 21st century Western culture.  Muslims are marginalized because they do what they are told to do, and we keep killing off their leaders with our drones until we get the ones we want.  We are not worried, but we are in a hurry to put you in your place as the Russians have so effectively done.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've _*worked *_in media for three decades, you pathetic synaptical black hole.  I was working with the CFR long before you were formed from whatever sperm forgot to spill on the back seat.
Click to expand...


*Evidently you did not learn much as a janitor for Al Jazeera!*




​ 
My bachelors is Mass Media from UCDavis, and my is Masters in Advertising is from Northwestern.




Yep, guys like me create "perception."  Anyone can flip switches at a television station.  I doubt you are in CFR, you would have to be Bill Clinton or Scott Pelley.  You really are a pathetically bad liar.  You are so desperate to win.    

I have eight years in account management at a national advertising agency. And, I have a Clio.


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, I never thought you would come out and betray your own stupidity like this.  Television and the media in general provide Ameicans with most of their information.  If you had studied media, you would know that the CFR was formed in 1917 by a group of businessmen who figured out that they could protect their investments by controlling the editorial polices of 27 newspapers nationally.  Since the the CFR has expanded into all media globally.
> 
> He who control the media wins.  Muslims think that he who controls that Jihad holy book of yours runs things.  Not so, not in 21st century Western culture.  Muslims are marginalized because they do what they are told to do, and we keep killing off their leaders with our drones until we get the ones we want.  We are not worried, but we are in a hurry to put you in your place as the Russians have so effectively done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've _*worked *_in media for three decades, you pathetic synaptical black hole.  I was working with the CFR long before you were formed from whatever sperm forgot to spill on the back seat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Evidently you did not learn much as a janitor for Al Jazeera!*
> 
> 
> My bachelors is Mass Media from UCDavis, and my Masters in Advertising is from Northwestern.  I have eight years in account management at a national advertising agency.  I have a Clio.
Click to expand...


Sure you do.  You can't even fucking spell, dropout loser.


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've _*worked *_in media for three decades, you pathetic synaptical black hole.  I was working with the CFR long before you were formed from whatever sperm forgot to spill on the back seat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Evidently you did not learn much as a janitor for Al Jazeera!*
> 
> 
> My bachelors is Mass Media from UCDavis, and my Masters in Advertising is from Northwestern.  I have eight years in account management at a national advertising agency.  I have a Clio.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure you do.  You can't even fucking spell, dropout loser.
Click to expand...


It is fun watching you go down.  So, spelling critique is all you have left?


----------



## Beachboy

*If anyone is even in this thread, here is the OP.

I am so bored with the name-calling I am about to put Pogo on "ignore."*



Beachboy said:


> *
> 
> *
> *If we did not allow Muslim foreigners into the United States...........   **
> 
> ......**there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  Duh!
> 
> *
> *This is not rocket science.*
> 
> 
> ​



This is really a simple fact based upon logistics.  It is true, there is no debate.  What we have here is a bunch of disgruntled Muslims trying to cover their asses on the Boston Marathon Bombing.  It is pretty sad.  Certainly, not my best work!


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

Beachboy said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is the fun of a democratic government.  Due process is whatever we say it is.  The definition can change overnight like it did after 9/11 and the Patriot Act.  We have Gitmo for a reason, and Muslims are a big part of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fortunately were not a democracy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do you mean "WE?"  If you are an American you are a traitor.
> 
> I guess us old American families think of ourselves as a democracy, when in fact we are a Republic.  Apparently, you have the time to split hairs.  I don't.
Click to expand...


You may think of yourself whatever you like. 

In fact, however, we are a Constitutional Republic, the citizens of which are subject to the rule of law, not men  as men are incapable of ruling justly. 

Your posts are evidence of that.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

asaratis said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we did not allow immigrants into this country, there would be no Boston.
> 
> 
> Duh!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So Boston would cease to exist if we deported all the Muslims from foreign countries?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What a silly fuckin' thing to say.  This entire country is descended from immigrants...except for the native American Indians that were fucked out of their homeland by European immigrants.
Click to expand...


*This entire country is descended from immigrants*

But we're not all descended from Muslim immigrants, silly.


----------



## Beachboy

Unkotare said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> When we are finished, Muslims will be begging their old third world countries to take them back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who's "we" asshole?
Click to expand...


Well it is about time you asked.  According to Google current opinions about Muslims in the United States after the Boston Marathon Bombing are not been completed.  However, according to the Journal of Muslim Mental Health here is the Post 9/11 research.  Attitudes Toward Muslim Americans Post-9/11  As expected my opinions about foreign Muslims are not only correct, but are stronger than even I expected.  Read it.

*"Attitudes Toward Muslim Americans Post-9/11......*

 ........Following September 11, 2001, the Federal Bureau of Investigation  (FBI) reported a 1,700 percent increase of hate crimes against Muslim  Americans between 2000 to 2001 (Anderson, 2002). During the process of  adjusting to the aftermath of September 11, Muslim Americans faced an  upsurge in negative stereotypes expressed by the larger society  (American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, 2003; Cassel, 2006) and  Muslim immigrants, more than any other immigrant group, were met with  negative attitudes (Council of American Islamic Relations, 2003;  Saroglou & Galand, 2004). Since then, increased racial and religious  animosity has left Arabs, Middle Easterners, Muslims, and those who  bear stereotyped physical resemblance to members of these groups,  fearful of potential hatred and hostility from persons of other cultures  (Abu-Ras & Suarez, 2009; Baqi-Aziz, 2001; Kira et al., 2010; Rippy  & Newman, 2006)."
*
*A thinking person would have Googled these facts before posting, but then, apparently you are a third world Muslim with an inferior education.  I will be most interested to see what kind of bull shit you come up with in an effort to refute these facts.


----------



## Hossfly

Unkotare said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> When we are finished, Muslims will be begging their old third world countries to take them back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who's "we" asshole?
Click to expand...

That's we'uns. Or as we say down here in West by god Virginia, us'uns.


----------



## Hossfly

Pogo said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> That mosque has been there since way before 9/11, and is a Sufi congregation, which has nothing to do with Wahabbism except as adversaries.  DUH.
> 
> The Asian immigrants who built the railroads across this country might be startled to learn they had "European customs".  DOUBLE DUH.
> 
> However I must admit, your inane OP does have a point; had we refused entry to "Muslim foreigners", the kids involved would not have been here to do what they did.  We'd have to rely on homegrown terrorists like Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins, Reverend Paul Jennings Hill, John Salvi, Eric Rudolph, Martin Uphoff, Patricia Hughes, Jeremy Dunahoe, Paul Ross Evans, Bobby Joe Rogers, or Francis Grady.
> 
> What a difference that would have made, huh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hard to believe minds like this get to vote... smh
> 
> BTW how come you bigots only see terrorists in terms of religion when they're Muslim?  Not to mention when they haven't used their religion as a pretext, in contrast to the entire list of Christians above?
> 
> (no DUH big enough for this one...)
> 
> 
> 
> Any particular reason you left out homegrown terrorists, Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, a couple of reasons: it wasn't intended as either (a) a comprehensive list, nor (b) to cover all of historical time.
> 
> Tim McVeigh would have been contemporary enough but I left him off too because he, as well as Ayers and Dohrn, had no known religious basis for what they did, whereas the OP cretin seems to have hung himself up on everything being about Islam, so McVeigh, Ayers and Dohrn wouldn't have made an apples to apples comparison.
> 
> Not that any of it seeped through the mind-fog of the cretin...
> 
> For that matter I have yet to see any evidence that Boston had a basis in religion either.  And I asked the OP a while back to show how 9/11 was a religious rather than a political event.  Needless to say I got nothing but crickets, incoherent rambling about what's on the television fucking news and caterwauling about how his family's been here a hunnard years.
Click to expand...

Oh. And here I thought it might be because of the Obama factor.


----------



## Beachboy

Republicans are reacting to the Boston Marathon Bombings as a reason to clamp down immigrants, and sidetrack The Immigration Reform Act.  We could not ask for better news in dealing with these foreign Muslim animals.  

Leahy: GOP trying to ?exploit? Boston bombings to stop immigration reform - Washington Post




​ 
"The  two bombing suspects, Dzhokhar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev, were members of  an ethnic Chechen family that received asylum in 2002 under U.S.  immigration law, prompting many Republicans to urge caution on  border-control reform.
Last week, opponents began to exploit the  Boston Marathon bombing.....While the  hearing was underway, Republican Sens. Rand Paul (Ky.) and Marco Rubio  (Fla.), a co-sponsor of the immigration bill, issued separate statements  calling on lawmakers to* take time to learn whether U.S. immigration  laws did not properly vet the Tsarnaev family before granting asylum  protections.*......Rubio,  who did not attend the hearing...........said that the bill would  improve border security but that &#8220;Congress needs time to conduct *more  hearings and investigate how our immigration and national security  systems could be improved going forward.* The attack reinforces why  immigration reform should be a lengthy, open and transparent process.&#8221;  Proponents of immigration reform fear that critics *will use legislative delays  to lengthen the debate and introduce amendments aimed at killing the  agreement*, which features a path to citizenship for most of the nation&#8217;s  11 million illegal immigrants. *A similar strategy helped doom a  bipartisan immigration bill in the Senate in 2007.......*


Tougher times ahead for all immigrants due to the foreign Muslims at the Boston Marathon Bombing.  Works for me!  Get them all out of the country, and now we can!


----------



## Unkotare

Beachboy said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> When we are finished, Muslims will be begging their old third world countries to take them back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who's "we" asshole?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well it is about time you asked. ]
Click to expand...




It's about time you answered. I didn't ask Google, I asked you what you meant by "we," asshole.


----------



## asaratis

Toddsterpatriot said:


> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> *So Boston would cease to exist *if we deported all the Muslims from foreign countries?
> 
> 
> 
> What a silly fuckin' thing to say.  This entire country is descended from immigrants...except for the native American Indians that were fucked out of their homeland by European immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *This entire country is descended from immigrants*
> 
> But we're not all descended from Muslim immigrants, silly.
Click to expand...

I didn't imply we were, silly.  Read back.  You'll see I said there would be no Boston had this country not welcomed immigrants.  The reply "*So Boston would cease to exist *if we deported all the Muslims from foreign countries? " constitutes a ridiculous and silly utterance.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

asaratis said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a silly fuckin' thing to say.  This entire country is descended from immigrants...except for the native American Indians that were fucked out of their homeland by European immigrants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *This entire country is descended from immigrants*
> 
> But we're not all descended from Muslim immigrants, silly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't imply we were, silly.  Read back.  You'll see I said there would be no Boston had this country not welcomed immigrants.  The reply "*So Boston would cease to exist *if we deported all the Muslims from foreign countries? " constitutes a ridiculous and silly utterance.
Click to expand...


The OP is in favor of deporting Muslim immigrants. In that context, the reply "there would be no Boston had this country not welcomed immigrants" constitutes a ridiculous and silly utterance.


----------



## Unkotare

Beachboy said:


> Remember, our hatred comes from the actions of your people!




Ok, here's your last chance to step back from forever marking yourself as one of the most hopeless fucking idiots on this site. Ready? 

What do you mean by "your people"?


----------



## Hossfly

Unkotare said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, our hatred comes from the actions of your people!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, here's your last chance to step back from forever marking yourself as one of the most hopeless fucking idiots on this site. Ready?
> 
> What do you mean by "your people"?
Click to expand...

It means------y'all.


----------



## asaratis

Toddsterpatriot said:


> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> *This entire country is descended from immigrants*
> 
> But we're not all descended from Muslim immigrants, silly.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't imply we were, silly.  Read back.  You'll see I said there would be no Boston had this country not welcomed immigrants.  The reply "*So Boston would cease to exist *if we deported all the Muslims from foreign countries? " constitutes a ridiculous and silly utterance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The OP is in favor of deporting Muslim immigrants. In that context, the reply "there would be no Boston had this country not welcomed immigrants" constitutes a ridiculous and silly utterance.
Click to expand...


...you misinterpreted the OP.  It merely stated that "If we did not allow Muslim foreigners into the United States...........

......there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing. Duh!"

...followed by a childish truism.

Though I realized what the rube intended to say was, "Had we not allowed Muslims into the United States, there may have been no Boston Marathon bombing."  This does NOT translate to:

"The OP is in favor of deporting Muslim immigrants."


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

asaratis said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't imply we were, silly.  Read back.  You'll see I said there would be no Boston had this country not welcomed immigrants.  The reply "*So Boston would cease to exist *if we deported all the Muslims from foreign countries? " constitutes a ridiculous and silly utterance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The OP is in favor of deporting Muslim immigrants. In that context, the reply "there would be no Boston had this country not welcomed immigrants" constitutes a ridiculous and silly utterance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ...you misinterpreted the OP.  It merely stated that "If we did not allow Muslim foreigners into the United States...........
> 
> ......there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing. Duh!"
> 
> ...followed by a childish truism.
> 
> Though I realized what the rube intended to say was, "Had we not allowed Muslims into the United States, there may have been no Boston Marathon bombing."  This does NOT translate to:
> 
> "The OP is in favor of deporting Muslim immigrants."
Click to expand...


Yes, several childism truisms on this thread......like this one.

*If we did not allow immigrants into this country, there would be no Boston.*


----------



## Pogo

Hossfly said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any particular reason you left out homegrown terrorists, Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, a couple of reasons: it wasn't intended as either (a) a comprehensive list, nor (b) to cover all of historical time.
> 
> Tim McVeigh would have been contemporary enough but I left him off too because he, as well as Ayers and Dohrn, had no known religious basis for what they did, whereas the OP cretin seems to have hung himself up on everything being about Islam, so McVeigh, Ayers and Dohrn wouldn't have made an apples to apples comparison.
> 
> Not that any of it seeped through the mind-fog of the cretin...
> 
> For that matter I have yet to see any evidence that Boston had a basis in religion either.  And I asked the OP a while back to show how 9/11 was a religious rather than a political event.  Needless to say I got nothing but crickets, incoherent rambling about what's on the television fucking news and caterwauling about how his family's been here a hunnard years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh. And here I thought it might be because of the Obama factor.
Click to expand...


Obviouisly you were wrong and need to read a little closer.  The fallacy has to do with religions.

I don't post about O'bama.  Or about Islam, or most any topic.  I post about logic.  That's the only reason I come to a logical black hole like this thread.  To marvel at the circus of the synaptically crippled.


----------



## Hossfly

Pogo said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, a couple of reasons: it wasn't intended as either (a) a comprehensive list, nor (b) to cover all of historical time.
> 
> Tim McVeigh would have been contemporary enough but I left him off too because he, as well as Ayers and Dohrn, had no known religious basis for what they did, whereas the OP cretin seems to have hung himself up on everything being about Islam, so McVeigh, Ayers and Dohrn wouldn't have made an apples to apples comparison.
> 
> Not that any of it seeped through the mind-fog of the cretin...
> 
> For that matter I have yet to see any evidence that Boston had a basis in religion either.  And I asked the OP a while back to show how 9/11 was a religious rather than a political event.  Needless to say I got nothing but crickets, incoherent rambling about what's on the television fucking news and caterwauling about how his family's been here a hunnard years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh. And here I thought it might be because of the Obama factor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Obviouisly you were wrong and need to read a little closer.  The fallacy has to do with religions.
> 
> I don't post about O'bama.  Or about Islam, or most any topic.  I post about logic.  That's the only reason I come to a logical black hole like this thread.  To marvel at the circus of the synaptically crippled.
Click to expand...

A tidbit for your mendicity. I see you didn't catch the deeper meaning of my reference to the "Obama factor" even though it is an underlying aspect of the subject. I am not accusing you of anything nefarious or belittling your intelligence. Please don't get me wrong, but it seems as though you and I are stymied by people who couldn't pour piss out of a boot with the directions on the heel. I won't bother you anymore.


----------



## Pogo

Hossfly said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh. And here I thought it might be because of the Obama factor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obviouisly you were wrong and need to read a little closer.  The fallacy has to do with religions.
> 
> I don't post about O'bama.  Or about Islam, or most any topic.  I post about logic.  That's the only reason I come to a logical black hole like this thread.  To marvel at the circus of the synaptically crippled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A tidbit for your mendicity. I see you didn't catch the deeper meaning of my reference to the "Obama factor" even though it is an underlying aspect of the subject. I am not accusing you of anything nefarious or belittling your intelligence. Please don't get me wrong, but it seems as though you and I are stymied by people who couldn't pour piss out of a boot with the directions on the heel. I won't bother you anymore.
Click to expand...


No bother at all.  I don't even know what the above is supposed to mean .
All I know is the OP came in with bigoted xenophobic assholicity about Muslims and foreigners and then assumes everyone who laughs at him is al Qaeda.  I don't see any "Obama factor" in that, but I do see entertainment in cerebral meltdowns such as his.  It's like the debate equivalent of a Gallagher show.


----------



## Beachboy

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fortunately were not a democracy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean "WE?"  If you are an American you are a traitor.
> 
> I guess us old American families think of ourselves as a democracy, when in fact we are a Republic.  Apparently, you have the time to split hairs.  I don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You may think of yourself whatever you like.
> 
> In fact, however, we are a Constitutional Republic, the citizens of which are subject to the rule of law, not men  as men are incapable of ruling justly.
> 
> Your posts are evidence of that.
Click to expand...


Yes, I can and do think what I want to about myself.  The facts are simple I am an internet American patriot who is out to call down foreign Muslims and their sympathizers who killed three of my fellow citizens and injured dozens of others at the Boston Marathon.  Somehow, in your twisted fashion, you and your ilk think you can justify this psychotic behavior by hiding behind Islam.  Obviously, you traitors are failing at that twisting of the facts.  Muslims are terrorists and traitors.


----------



## Beachboy

Unkotare said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am an internet American patriot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are anything but. You are just another idiot on the internet. You also happen to be an Un-American piece of shit who doesn't deserve to spend one day in this great nation. You're just another illogical, hateful buffoon and that's all you will ever be.
Click to expand...


Well, I guess it is time to explain how America works to this psycho foreigner.

*The Image of America.*America's image of the red, white and blue as a beacon of freedom to the world is what we in marketing call "Gloss."  We wave the flag over anything, play the national anthem, and we get swelling in the eyes of all Americans.  Gloss brings out patriotism.

*Idealism of America.   *These are our founding documents, the Declaration of Independence, The U. S. Constitution, and The Bill of Rights.  Unfortunately, these are not facts poured in concrete.  They are goals of our nation.  Ask any African-American how well implementation of these document is.

*The Players.*  These are our leaders, they run the government.  From your posting you think our government is being run by Congress, the White House, and the Supreme Court.  Truth is it is being run by lobbyists, CEOs, members of the government, and the government bureaucracy.  This is where the rubber meets the road.  The old families, Democrat and Republican all have their seats at the table.  The president is just one of the players.  Our government really runs no differently than the Russians, the Chinese, or anyone else.  The old American families are running the nation in their own interest.  Voters really have little to do with the process.  Government puts on a show for voters every four years.  It really matters little who is elected.  Both parties answer to the same interests.

*Mistakes.*  As with any government mistakes are made, but not the kind of mistakes you are thinking of.  Muslims have not panned out as benefiting the United States.  Now it is time to do something about them - too many *problems.*  Remember, "due process" is whatever the government says it is.  Yes, the very same Supreme Court that said Bush wins over Gore when Gore has a half million more votes.

You can sit at your little keyboard manufacturing all the information you want.  It really doesn't matter.  Rag heads have lost their place in America, now it is just a clean up job.


----------



## Unkotare

Beachboy said:


> *The Image of America.*America's image of the red, white and blue as a beacon of freedom to the world is what we in marketing call "Gloss."





The American flag is not "gloss," you superficial piece of shit. To real Americans it means something deep, abiding, and important. 

Get the fuck out of my country, asshole.


----------



## Unkotare

Beachboy said:


> *Idealism of America.   *These are our founding documents, the Declaration of Independence, The U. S. Constitution, and The Bill of Rights.





The Bill of Rights is part of the Constitution, idiot, and those documents outline and enumerate our principles as a nation, not just "ideals." You understand NOTHING about this great nation.


----------



## Unkotare

Beachboy said:


> *The Players.*  These are our leaders, they run the government.




Our representatives work for us; they are not our "leaders," you idiot.


----------



## Unkotare

Beachboy said:


> Truth is it is being run by lobbyists, CEOs, members of the government, and the government bureaucracy.  This is where the rubber meets the road.  The old families, Democrat and Republican all have their seats at the table.  The president is just one of the players.  Our government really runs no differently than the Russians, the Chinese, or anyone else.  The old American families are running the nation in their own interest.  Voters really have little to do with the process.  Government puts on a show for voters every four years.  It really matters little who is elected.  Both parties answer to the same interests.]




You can take your conspiracy shit to the Conspiracy Forum with the rest of the head cases.


----------



## Unkotare

Beachboy said:


> Yes, the very same Supreme Court that said Bush wins over Gore when Gore has a half million more votes.





Gore lost that election, idiot, no matter who much it still bothers a bitter little loser like you.


You understand NOTHING about America or political science in general.


----------



## Unkotare

That's it, run away pussy. Your ignorant bigotry and offensive Anti-Americanism can only be justified in your tiny, diseased little mind.


----------



## hoosier88

Beachboy said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... Let me see if I can dumb it down for you.
> 
> 1).  ...
> 
> 3).  A *"dirty bomb" *was made to* hurt, maim, and kill as many Americans *as possible because they had wasted their American opportunity.
> 
> ... [/B]
> 
> 
> (My bold)
> 
> A dirty bomb TMK is a conventional explosive used to disperse radioactive material.  We haven't seen one yet, as far as I know.
> 
> The bombs that the Boston bombers used were apparently anti-personnel bombs, meant to inflict lots of wounds.  All respect to the dead & injured, I don't mean to minimize their suffering.
> 
> But I think the bombers were shocked to be tracked so quickly, & to be running for their lives in short order.  Also, the bomb victims who made it to hospital are all expected to live.  With prostheses they will be able to return to productive lives - if not complete recoveries.
> 
> As for excluding Muslims from the US - Why?  The vast majority are not throwing bombs, nor executing terrorist attacks.  How do you expect to have any influence on their home nations/communities without any contact?  It's better that we educate their students & show that we're not necessarily a military threat to their countries.  It is even more important to show them a model of a multi-cultural technical society that works - that actually produces goods & services that the World wants to buy.  The oil-producing countries need to invest their money, & we need that investment stream ourselves.
> 
> It's a fair trade, & has been in place with Saudi Arabia since mid-WWII.
Click to expand...


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No links.  No facts.  Nothing but misinformed opinion.   You just don't have the smarts or education to discuss and understand this.
> 
> I have warned you twice that if you do not stop posting unsubstantiated bull shit, I will put you on "ignore."  You are wasting my time, and I am not going "educate" a traitor to his country.
> 
> You are not a worthy poster.  One more "creative rewriting of history" and this thread will go on without you.  Got it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh. My. God.  He's such a dimbulb he actually believes he can _kick people out_ of his sorry thread.  That would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.
> 
> "I have warned you"... whooooooooo.
> 
> FYI Tonto, the only reason this thread has views is because (a) you keep bumping it to an undeserved position, and (b) the diarrhea you've posted is so mindless that it has to be seen to be believed.
Click to expand...


The difference between you and Unkotare is simple.  Unkotare just empties his brain into posts.  He does not read or listen to others.  Read the thread, clearly other USMB members have written Unkotare off as a fanatic.

Now, you get emotional and say some stupid things, but you are not bad enough to ignore~~ YET!  There are NOT two sides to this discussion.  I do not repeat myself to morons who do not read my posts.  

For example the topic of this thread.  It is absolutely true that if these foreign Muslims had not been in the country, there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  I mean do you think there are North Koreans waiting in the wings when the Muslims failed.  Of course not.

The way to attack my posting would be to say, "Do not hold all Muslims responsible for the actions of a few.  The thoughts of American Muslims are with the families who lost their loved ones."  Simple easy and honest way for the average American Muslim to respond to the Boston Marathon Bombings.

Unfortunately, American Muslims are not media savvy.  Wnen Muslims insisted on a Mosque at Ground Zero, Donald Trump offed to buy the land to settle it in a neighborly fashion.   Muslims insisted on their rights.  Now, _we make sure Muslims get their rights_, then we castrate them in the media.  After 9-11 the FBI reported that hate crimes against Muslims in the United States increased by 1,700 percent.  _You can be sure it will happen again._  The attitude of American Muslims has not been to assimilate to the opportunity of America and be good neighbors.   They insist on wearing their Halloween clothing on our streets everyday, making America look like a third world country.   This is no religion, it is psycho troublemakers using violence to push their Islam crap.




​ 
Muslims are really going to get super fucked this time around, and it is all because of their attitude.  I for one consider my posting in this forum to be a patriotic act.  Over 800 people have read this thread, but much fewer have posted here.   Americans want a scapegoat, and Muslims have set themselves up.  It will be painful for them, but they will learn to assimilate to America or feel a lot of pain.  Frankly, I think most Americans see Muslims as more loyal to Islam than to our country who gave them a chance.


----------



## Beachboy

hoosier88 said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1).  ...
> 
> 3).  A *"dirty bomb" *was made to* hurt, maim, and kill as many Americans *as possible because they had wasted their American opportunity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A dirty bomb TMK is a conventional explosive used to disperse radioactive material.  We haven't seen one yet, as far as I know.
> 
> The bombs that the Boston bombers used were apparently anti-personnel bombs, meant to inflict lots of wounds.  All respect to the dead & injured, I don't mean to minimize their suffering.
> 
> But I think the bombers were shocked to be tracked so quickly, & to be running for their lives in short order.  Also, the bomb victims who made it to hospital are all expected to live.  With prostheses they will be able to return to productive lives - if not complete recoveries.
> 
> As for excluding Muslims from the US - Why?  The vast majority are not throwing bombs, nor executing terrorist attacks.  How do you expect to have any influence on their home nations/communities without any contact?  It's better that we educate their students & show that we're not necessarily a military threat to their countries.  It is even more important to show them a model of a multi-cultural technical society that works - that actually produces goods & services that the World wants to buy.  The oil-producing countries need to invest their money, & we need that investment stream ourselves.
> 
> It's a fair trade, & has been in place with Saudi Arabia since mid-WWII.
Click to expand...


There has been considerable discussion in the media on this subject.  Some have presented reasonable arguments that the bombs used in the Boston Marathon bombing could be described as "Weapons of Mass Destruction."

It is my understanding that the sharpnel in the bombs is what made them dirty bombs, but this is really a minor consideration in terms of the events of the Boston Marathon Bombing.

You are vomiting "multi-cultural" crap, when the truth is three innocent American citizens were murdered and dozens more were maimed by foreign Muslims.  You try to pass this off as a minor automobile accident.   Rag heads are not going to twist the facts on this to the American people.  All Muslims will pay for this until they place United States over their "so-called" Jihad religion.  I don't think they are capable of doing it.  They are brainwashed, pure and simple.  Deportation is the best answer.  There are plenty of people around the world who would love to  call it a to be given a chance in the United States.


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No links.  No facts.  Nothing but misinformed opinion.   You just don't have the smarts or education to discuss and understand this.
> 
> I have warned you twice that if you do not stop posting unsubstantiated bull shit, I will put you on "ignore."  You are wasting my time, and I am not going "educate" a traitor to his country.
> 
> You are not a worthy poster.  One more "creative rewriting of history" and this thread will go on without you.  Got it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh. My. God.  He's such a dimbulb he actually believes he can _kick people out_ of his sorry thread.  That would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.
> 
> "I have warned you"... whooooooooo.
> 
> FYI Tonto, the only reason this thread has views is because (a) you keep bumping it to an undeserved position, and (b) the diarrhea you've posted is so mindless that it has to be seen to be believed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The difference between you and Unkotare is simple.  Unkotare just empties his brain into posts.  He does not read or listen to others.  Read the thread, clearly other USMB members have written Unkotare off as a fanatic.
> 
> Now, you get emotional and say some stupid things, but you are not bad enough to ignore~~ YET!  There are NOT two sides to this discussion.  I do not repeat myself to morons who do not read my posts.
> 
> For example the topic of this thread.  It is absolutely true that if these foreign Muslims had not been in the country, there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  I mean do you think there are North Koreans waiting in the wings when the Muslims failed.  Of course not.
> 
> The way to attack my posting would be to say, "Do not hold all Muslims responsible for the actions of a few.  The thoughts of American Muslims are with the families who lost their loved ones."  Simple easy and honest way for the average American Muslim to respond to the Boston Marathon Bombings.
> 
> Unfortunately, American Muslims are not media savvy.  Wnen Muslims insisted on a Mosque at Ground Zero, Donald Trump offed to buy the land to settle it in a neighborly fashion.   Muslims insisted on their rights.  Now, _we make sure Muslims get their rights_, then we castrate them in the media.  After 9-11 the FBI reported that hate crimes against Muslims in the United States increased by 1,700 percent.  _You can be sure it will happen again._  The attitude of American Muslims has not been to assimilate to the opportunity of America and be good neighbors.   They insist on wearing their Halloween clothing on our streets everyday, making America look like a third world country.   This is no religion, it is psycho troublemakers using violence to push their Islam crap.
> 
> Muslims are really going to get really fucked this time around, and it is all because of their attitude.  I for one consider my posting in this forum to be a patriotic act.  Over 800 people have read this thread, but much fewer have posted here.   Americans want a scapegoat, and Muslims have set themselves up.  It will be painful for them, but they will learn to assimilate to America or feel a lot of pain.
Click to expand...



"*Muslims insisted on their rights*".




Jesus Christ on a bicycle, what a sniveling whiner you are.

Your ass got schooled on the so-called "Ground Zero Mosque" back in 18 and 33 with points to which you had no answer --- apparently because you're just regurgitating the huckster rants of gadflies like Pam Geller and have no clue what the hell you're talking about.

As for these delusions of grandeur, no "800 people" have not read this thread-- 800 people looked in, saw your rhetorical turds and went .  Only a few of us chose to point out the obvious.


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> hoosier88 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... Let me see if I can dumb it down for you.
> 
> 1).  ...
> 
> 3).  A *"dirty bomb" *was made to* hurt, maim, and kill as many Americans *as possible because they had wasted their American opportunity.
> 
> ... [/B]
> 
> 
> (My bold)
> 
> A dirty bomb TMK is a conventional explosive used to disperse radioactive material.  We haven't seen one yet, as far as I know.
> 
> The bombs that the Boston bombers used were apparently anti-personnel bombs, meant to inflict lots of wounds.  All respect to the dead & injured, I don't mean to minimize their suffering.
> 
> But I think the bombers were shocked to be tracked so quickly, & to be running for their lives in short order.  Also, the bomb victims who made it to hospital are all expected to live.  With prostheses they will be able to return to productive lives - if not complete recoveries.
> 
> As for excluding Muslims from the US - Why?  The vast majority are not throwing bombs, nor executing terrorist attacks.  How do you expect to have any influence on their home nations/communities without any contact?  It's better that we educate their students & show that we're not necessarily a military threat to their countries.  It is even more important to show them a model of a multi-cultural technical society that works - that actually produces goods & services that the World wants to buy.  The oil-producing countries need to invest their money, & we need that investment stream ourselves.
> 
> It's a fair trade, & has been in place with Saudi Arabia since mid-WWII.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There has been considerable discussion in the media on this subject.  Some have presented reasonable arguments that the bombs used in the Boston Marathon bombing could be described as "Weapons of Mass Destruction."
> 
> It is my understanding that the sharpnel in the bombs is what made them dirty bombs, but this is really a minor consideration in terms of the events of the Boston Marathon Bombing.
> 
> You are vomiting "multi-cultural" crap, when the truth is three innocent American citizens were murdered and dozens more were maimed by foreign Muslims.  You try to pass this off as a minor automobile accident.   Rag heads are not going to twist the facts on this to the American people.  All Muslims will pay for this until they place United States over their "so-called" Jihad religion.  I don't think they are capable of doing it.  They are brainwashed, pure and simple.  Deportation is the best answer.  There are plenty of people around the world who would love to  call it a to be given a chance in the United States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh that reminds me-- I also challenged you to demonstrate how Boston has anything to do with Islam.  Or any other religion.
> 
> Got crickets on that one too.
> 
> Can't say I'm surprised.
Click to expand...


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh. My. God.  He's such a dimbulb he actually believes he can _kick people out_ of his sorry thread.  That would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.
> 
> "I have warned you"... whooooooooo.
> 
> FYI Tonto, the only reason this thread has views is because (a) you keep bumping it to an undeserved position, and (b) the diarrhea you've posted is so mindless that it has to be seen to be believed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The difference between you and Unkotare is simple.  Unkotare just empties his brain into posts.  He does not read or listen to others.  Read the thread, clearly other USMB members have written Unkotare off as a fanatic.
> 
> Now, you get emotional and say some stupid things, but you are not bad enough to ignore~~ YET!  There are NOT two sides to this discussion.  I do not repeat myself to morons who do not read my posts.
> 
> For example the topic of this thread.  It is absolutely true that if these foreign Muslims had not been in the country, there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  I mean do you think there are North Koreans waiting in the wings when the Muslims failed.  Of course not.
> 
> The way to attack my posting would be to say, "Do not hold all Muslims responsible for the actions of a few.  The thoughts of American Muslims are with the families who lost their loved ones."  Simple easy and honest way for the average American Muslim to respond to the Boston Marathon Bombings.
> 
> Unfortunately, American Muslims are not media savvy.  Wnen Muslims insisted on a Mosque at Ground Zero, Donald Trump offed to buy the land to settle it in a neighborly fashion.   Muslims insisted on their rights.  Now, _we make sure Muslims get their rights_, then we castrate them in the media.  After 9-11 the FBI reported that hate crimes against Muslims in the United States increased by 1,700 percent.  _You can be sure it will happen again._  The attitude of American Muslims has not been to assimilate to the opportunity of America and be good neighbors.   They insist on wearing their Halloween clothing on our streets everyday, making America look like a third world country.   This is no religion, it is psycho troublemakers using violence to push their Islam crap.
> 
> Muslims are really going to get really fucked this time around, and it is all because of their attitude.  I for one consider my posting in this forum to be a patriotic act.  Over 800 people have read this thread, but much fewer have posted here.   Americans want a scapegoat, and Muslims have set themselves up.  It will be painful for them, but they will learn to assimilate to America or feel a lot of pain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jesus Christ on a bicycle, what a sniveling whiner you are.
> 
> Your ass got schooled on the so-called "Ground Zero Mosque" back in 18 and 33 with points to which you had no answer --- apparently because you're just regurgitating the huckster rants of gadflies like Pam Geller and have no clue what the hell you're talking about.
> 
> As for these delusions of grandeur, no "800 people" have not read this thread-- 800 people looked in, saw your rhetorical turds and went .  Only a few of us chose to point out the obvious.
Click to expand...


I think you will see from the "thank yous" and PMs supported by facts and links that the members of USMB consider my postings to be main stream American in this thread.  The Muslims trying to twist the facts have been outed as pure propagandists trying to save their asses after another example of their third world barbarianism.  

Foreign Muslims are clearly terrorists, enemies of the State, and *traitors*.  Post all you want, you can not change the facts.   Your loyalty is to the Boston Marathon Bombers, not your fellow citizens.  Clearly, a matter to be reviewed by the U. S. Congress in putting the brakes on the Immigration Reform Act.  You pieces of shit are going home to the third world!  You'll fit right in.












So long Johnny Jihad, pick any country in green or brown!  ​


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The difference between you and Unkotare is simple.  Unkotare just empties his brain into posts.  He does not read or listen to others.  Read the thread, clearly other USMB members have written Unkotare off as a fanatic.
> 
> Now, you get emotional and say some stupid things, but you are not bad enough to ignore~~ YET!  There are NOT two sides to this discussion.  I do not repeat myself to morons who do not read my posts.
> 
> For example the topic of this thread.  It is absolutely true that if these foreign Muslims had not been in the country, there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  I mean do you think there are North Koreans waiting in the wings when the Muslims failed.  Of course not.
> 
> The way to attack my posting would be to say, "Do not hold all Muslims responsible for the actions of a few.  The thoughts of American Muslims are with the families who lost their loved ones."  Simple easy and honest way for the average American Muslim to respond to the Boston Marathon Bombings.
> 
> Unfortunately, American Muslims are not media savvy.  Wnen Muslims insisted on a Mosque at Ground Zero, Donald Trump offed to buy the land to settle it in a neighborly fashion.   Muslims insisted on their rights.  Now, _we make sure Muslims get their rights_, then we castrate them in the media.  After 9-11 the FBI reported that hate crimes against Muslims in the United States increased by 1,700 percent.  _You can be sure it will happen again._  The attitude of American Muslims has not been to assimilate to the opportunity of America and be good neighbors.   They insist on wearing their Halloween clothing on our streets everyday, making America look like a third world country.   This is no religion, it is psycho troublemakers using violence to push their Islam crap.
> 
> Muslims are really going to get really fucked this time around, and it is all because of their attitude.  I for one consider my posting in this forum to be a patriotic act.  Over 800 people have read this thread, but much fewer have posted here.   Americans want a scapegoat, and Muslims have set themselves up.  It will be painful for them, but they will learn to assimilate to America or feel a lot of pain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus Christ on a bicycle, what a sniveling whiner you are.
> 
> Your ass got schooled on the so-called "Ground Zero Mosque" back in 18 and 33 with points to which you had no answer --- apparently because you're just regurgitating the huckster rants of gadflies like Pam Geller and have no clue what the hell you're talking about.
> 
> As for these delusions of grandeur, no "800 people" have not read this thread-- 800 people looked in, saw your rhetorical turds and went .  Only a few of us chose to point out the obvious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think you will see from the "thank yous" and PMs supported by facts and links that the members of USMB consider my postings to be main stream American in this thread.  The Muslims trying to twist the facts have been outed as pure propagandists trying to save their asses after another example of their third world barbarianism.
> 
> Foreign Muslims are clearly terrorists, enemies of the State, and *traitors*.  Post all you want, you can not change the facts.   Your loyalty is to the Boston Marathon Bombers, not your fellow citizens.  Clearly, a matter to be reviewed by the U. S. Congress in putting the brakes on the Immigration Reform Act.  You pieces of shit are going home to the third world!  You'll fit right in.
> 
> So long Johnny Jihad, pick any country in green or brown!  ​
Click to expand...


Yeah, count up all the posts in here backing up your hysteria.  Why there's... there's .... well let's just say the next one will put you in the single digits.

Mainstream, my ass.

The facts are these: you're a bigot who runs away when challenged to back up his bigotry.
_Masjid al-Farah_: nothing.
_Relationship of religion to Boston_: nothing.
_Justifying your asshole bigotry under the Constitution_: nothing.

Here's what 800 readers agree on: you are undeniably, completely and utterly full of shit.


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus Christ on a bicycle, what a sniveling whiner you are.
> 
> Your ass got schooled on the so-called "Ground Zero Mosque" back in 18 and 33 with points to which you had no answer --- apparently because you're just regurgitating the huckster rants of gadflies like Pam Geller and have no clue what the hell you're talking about.
> 
> As for these delusions of grandeur, no "800 people" have not read this thread-- 800 people looked in, saw your rhetorical turds and went .  Only a few of us chose to point out the obvious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you will see from the "thank yous" and PMs supported by facts and links that the members of USMB consider my postings to be main stream American in this thread.  The Muslims trying to twist the facts have been outed as pure propagandists trying to save their asses after another example of their third world barbarianism.
> 
> Foreign Muslims are clearly terrorists, enemies of the State, and *traitors*.  Post all you want, you can not change the facts.   Your loyalty is to the Boston Marathon Bombers, not your fellow citizens.  Clearly, a matter to be reviewed by the U. S. Congress in putting the brakes on the Immigration Reform Act.  You pieces of shit are going home to the third world!  You'll fit right in.
> 
> So long Johnny Jihad, pick any country in green or brown!  ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, count up all the posts in here backing up your hysteria.  Why there's... there's .... well let's just say the next one will put you in the single digits.
> 
> Mainstream, my ass.
> 
> The facts are these: you're a bigot who runs away when challenged to back up his bigotry.
> _Masjid al-Farah_: nothing.
> _Relationship of religion to Boston_: nothing.
> _Justifying your asshole bigotry under the Constitution_: nothing.
> 
> Here's what 800 readers agree on: you are undeniably, completely and utterly full of shit.
Click to expand...


Just more of the usual name-calling unsupported by fact/links.   You have no credibility, Johnny Jihad!

The American people know the truth and expect the government to pull the plug on the rag heads.  Republicans are already putting up road blocks to kill The Immigration Reform Act which will deport more Muslims.

The handful of people who are posting against me, do so to protect their murdering Muslim asses.  As if what you post in USMB is going to change anything in the real world.     Most people do not wish to waste their time on this subject.  It is a no-brainer, it is a one sided argument.  America before Islam, no debate here.














​


----------



## hoosier88

Beachboy said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I can and do think what I want to about myself.  The facts are simple I am an internet American patriot who is out to call down foreign Muslims and their sympathizers *who killed three of my fellow citizens *and injured dozens of others at the Boston Marathon.  Somehow, in your twisted fashion, you and your ilk think you can justify this psychotic behavior by hiding behind Islam.  Obviously, you traitors are failing at that twisting of the facts. * Muslims are terrorists and traitors.*
> 
> ...
> 
> (My bold)
> 
> Except that one of the dead @ the Boston Marathon bombing was a PRC national, a grad student who apparently had a brilliant future ahead of her.  So, for someone who's all over TV news, that's an odd miss.  (I scarcely watch network TV, but I've glanced in on the Boston coverage.)
> 
> I notice your characterization of Muslims as Third World countries, etc.  That wasn't always true.  Islamic culture was for a time one of the high cultures of the World, although that was a while ago.  They also preserved a lot of Greek writing that we've since recovered - through the monastic histories & directly.
> 
> Nonetheless, cultures rise & fall, UK, France, Greece, Rome, Holy Roman Empire & so on.  I point this out because you seem to overlook it - the US rose to power in the 1890s on the World stage, & surged further in WWI & WWII.  We are not guaranteed our place in the sun, as witness Babylon, Persia, Xerxes, Egypt, the Maya, the Aztec, the Inca.  Japan, the USSR & others looked to be the coming powers @ one time.  Where are they now?
> 
> So what is it you consider Muslims to be traitors to?  They may be terrorists, in given cases.  I think that has a lot to do with the closing off of political options short of violence, myself.  But what do you think?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, count up all the posts in here backing up your hysteria.  Why there's... there's .... well let's just say the next one will put you in the single digits.
> 
> Mainstream, my ass.
> 
> The facts are these: you're a bigot who runs away when challenged to back up his bigotry.
> _Masjid al-Farah_: nothing.
> _Relationship of religion to Boston_: nothing.
> _Justifying your asshole bigotry under the Constitution_: nothing.
> 
> Here's what 800 readers agree on: you are undeniably, completely and utterly full of shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just more of the usual name-calling unsupported by fact/links.   You have no credibility, Johnny Jihad!
> 
> The American people know the truth and expect the government to pull the plug on the rag heads.  Republicans are already putting up road blocks to kill The Immigration Reform Act which will deport more Muslims.
> 
> The handful of people who are posting against me, do so to protect their murdering Muslim asses.  As if what you post in USMB is going to change anything in the real world.     Most people do not wish to waste their time on this subject.  It is a no-brainer, it is a one sided argument.  America before Islam, no debate here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just can't make this up.  Pissing and moaning about "name calling" -- on a passage about his content-- and then moves immediately to "rag heads".
> 
> 
> Fucking hypocrite.
Click to expand...


_____________________________________________
​ I joined this forum to debate American politics with my fellow citizens.  Little did I know I would end up being attacked by third world Muslims, rerunning the same tired name-calling every day.

At work, when I have something to say, I write a memo.  I write it once, and expect it to be read and implemented.  Hence, I am no longer going to repeat my responses for every Johnny Jihad that comes along with a fanatical idea.  Instead I will post this message unless there is original thought, then I will address it.

We have *traitor**s* here to the United States of America who believe taking American lives on 9-11, and at the Boston Marathon Bombing was acceptable.  It is my intention to address these ignorant barbarians until they get the point.  _To stay here, your loyalty must be to the United States first, not __violent Islam._  Foreign Muslims are the enemy.  Islam is not a religion, it is a twisted version of the _Quaran_ endorsing murder.  

To answer your particular question read this entire thread.  Your answer is already here or you would not be reading this.  Don't waste my time because you have a third rate education, and do not understand the superiority of Western culture.
_____________________________________________






 Wake up fellow Americans, 
the danger of foreign Muslims is real!​


----------



## Beachboy

hoosier88 said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I can and do think what I want to about myself.  The facts are simple I am an internet American patriot who is out to call down foreign Muslims and their sympathizers *who killed three of my fellow citizens *and injured dozens of others at the Boston Marathon.  Somehow, in your twisted fashion, you and your ilk think you can justify this psychotic behavior by hiding behind Islam.  Obviously, you traitors are failing at that twisting of the facts. * Muslims are terrorists and traitors.*
> 
> ...
> 
> (My bold)
> 
> Except that one of the dead @ the Boston Marathon bombing was a PRC national, a grad student who apparently had a brilliant future ahead of her.  So, for someone who's all over TV news, that's an odd miss.  (I scarcely watch network TV, but I've glanced in on the Boston coverage.)
> 
> I notice your characterization of Muslims as Third World countries, etc.  That wasn't always true.  Islamic culture was for a time one of the high cultures of the World, although that was a while ago.  They also preserved a lot of Greek writing that we've since recovered - through the monastic histories & directly.
> 
> Nonetheless, cultures rise & fall, UK, France, Greece, Rome, Holy Roman Empire & so on.  I point this out because you seem to overlook it - the US rose to power in the 1890s on the World stage, & surged further in WWI & WWII.  We are not guaranteed our place in the sun, as witness Babylon, Persia, Xerxes, Egypt, the Maya, the Aztec, the Inca.  Japan, the USSR & others looked to be the coming powers @ one time.  Where are they now?
> 
> So what is it you consider Muslims to be traitors to?  They may be terrorists, in given cases.  I think that has a lot to do with the closing off of political options short of violence, myself.  But what do you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I don't know.  Do you think murdering three of my fellow American citizens, and maiming dozens more might piss off the American people?  The FBI reported that after 9-11 hate crimes against Muslims increase 1700%.  What do you suppose is going to happen, duh?  Who is willing to help these Muslim traitors who are enemies of America?  No one.  America looked the other way at violence against Muslims from 9-11, I am sure it will be much the same with the Boston Marathon Bombing.  Shoot to kill is the American way of the Second Amendment to the U. S. Constitution.  I would not have a problem with that.  No real true blooded American would.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2,977 U. S. citizens died that day, and now 3 more in Boston.
> I'd say whatever we did after 9-11 was clearly not adequate.
> It is simple, we need to bring more pain into the lives of foreign Muslims until they self-deport.​
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just can't make this up.  Pissing and moaning about "name calling" -- on a passage about his content-- and then moves immediately to "rag heads".
> 
> 
> Fucking hypocrite.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I joined this forum to debate American politics with my fellow citizens.  Little did I know I would end up being attacked by third world Muslim rag heads, rerunning the same tired name-calling every day.
> 
> At work, when I have something to say, I write a memo.  I write it once, and expect it to be read and implemented.  Hence, I am no longer going to repeat my responses for every Johnny Jihad that comes along.  Instead I will post this message unless there is original thought, then I will address it.
> 
> We have traitors here to the United States of America who believe taking American lives on 9-11, and at the Boston Marathon Bombing was acceptable.  It is my intention to ridicule these ignorant barbarians until they get the point.  To stay here, your loyalty must be to the United States first, not violent Islam.  Foreign Muslims are the enemy.  Islam is not a religion, it is a *twisted* version of the _Quaran_ endorsing murder.
> 
> To answer your particular question read this entire thread.  Your answer is already here or you would not be reading this.  Don't waste my time because you have a third rate education, and do not understand the superiority of Western culture.
> _____________________________________________
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> well Buffy, if you're a product of this "superior" culture then it must not be.
> 
> Once again, s l o w l y....
> 
> Masjid al-Farah?
> Religious basis in Boston?
> Religious basis in 9/11?
> United States Constitution?
> 
> Anything?
Click to expand...





​ 
OOooooo.......   I like colors and big letters.  Thank you.

*Bottom line;*  Even superior Western Culture is forced to climb right down into the gutter to deal with low-lives like foreign, Muslim traitors.  You forget, our English ancestors were the ones who invented drawing and quartering.  Even though we prefer a more peaceable way to govern.  Nice and polite is not working with foreign Muslims.  We have some high tech tricks up our sleeve.






These are so accurate, we could use them in Minnesota, and only kill the target we want.





​


----------



## Beachboy

​


Beachboy said:


> OOooooo.......   I like colors and big letters.  Thank you.
> 
> *Bottom line;*  Even superior Western Culture is forced to climb right down into the gutter to deal with low-lives like foreign, Muslim traitors.  You forget, our English ancestors were the ones who invented drawing and quartering.  Even though we prefer a more peaceable way to govern.  Nice and polite is not working with foreign Muslims.  We have some high tech tricks up our sleeve.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are so accurate, we could use them in Minnesota, and only kill the target we want.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​




A buddy stopped by, and looked at this post.  He said there was no  need to use a $4,000,000,000,000 aircraft, and a half million dollar  missile to deal with this problem. He suggested why not use exactly the same weapon that foreign Muslims used on us in Boston?  

Frankly, I don't believe in that kind of violence except by professional law enforcement.  However I don't think there is a natural born citizen American who would not say word if someone did such a thing.  Not a single word.  After all we are talking about *traitors* to the United States who have no concern for U. S. Citizens.  Yes, I think law enforcement has solutions to this problem.  If we take law enforcement into our hands as citizens we are no better than foreign Muslim *traitors*.


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> Just remember this FBI figure, after 9-11 violence against Muslims in the United States increased by 1700%!



-- if that's true, ignorami like you are the reason why. 

Was that supposed to be some kind of threat, rather than a confession?


----------



## Beachboy

Toddsterpatriot said:


> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> The OP is in favor of deporting Muslim immigrants. In that context, the reply "there would be no Boston had this country not welcomed immigrants" constitutes a ridiculous and silly utterance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...you misinterpreted the OP.  It merely stated that "If we did not allow Muslim foreigners into the United States...........
> 
> ......there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing. Duh!"
> 
> ...followed by a childish truism.
> 
> Though I realized what the rube intended to say was, "Had we not allowed Muslims into the United States, there may have been no Boston Marathon bombing."  This does NOT translate to:
> 
> "The OP is in favor of deporting Muslim immigrants."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, several childism truisms on this thread......like this one.
> 
> *If we did not allow immigrants into this country, there would be no Boston.*
Click to expand...


I am in favor of deporting all foreign Muslim immigrants - ABSOLUTELY!

Just FYI, when the Declaration of Independence, Constitution and Bill of Rights were signed, Washington, Jefferson, Franklin and Adams were not men of the church.  In fact they feared it.  

In addition only two Jews signed these documents.  The Jewish contribution to the American Revolution was so great that Washington himself visited a New York Synagog while POTUS.  This was unheard of at the time.  The Synagog stands today.   I am continually surprised that more people do not know the basis for the closeness of Israel and the United States.







​ 
Jews are closer to the founding of America than Roman Catholics.  No Roman Catholics, none were here in colonial times, they had not yet immigrated.  Immigrants in colonial times were predominantly Europeans which is why many get upset when some try to tear down our European culture.  European culture is American, and it will stay that way.  Obviously, Muslims played no role in the founding of the United States. Muslims got here after the work had been done by others, and began demanding rights, as usual..


----------



## Crackerjaxon

If Muslims aborted babies the way we do, chances are very good that the bombers would never have been born.


----------



## Pogo

Unkotare said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I don't know.  Do you think murdering three of my fellow American citizens, and maiming dozens more might piss off the American people?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't someone already tell PUSSYboy that one of the victims of the Boston Marathon bombing was not a US citizen? Do you think PUSSYboy even bothers to read replies, or does he spend all his time posting oversized pics?
> 
> He really reminds me of that asshole who went similarly crazy over "anchor babies" a while back until he was finally banned. Very similar M.O.
Click to expand...


Not only did Hoosier88 tell him that; he actually quoted it (and mangled the quote, attributing it to C_Clayton_Jones) and still managed to somehow ignore it even though it was in bold in the same post.  He must have been too busy looking for the "size=85" "extra bold" "screaming purple" font.

Apparently he believes that by ignoring facts like that, like Masjid al-Farah, like any connection between Boston and Islam, like the Constitution, that these inconveniences will just.... disappear.


----------



## Crackerjaxon

Beachboy said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...you misinterpreted the OP.  It merely stated that "If we did not allow Muslim foreigners into the United States...........
> 
> ......there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing. Duh!"
> 
> ...followed by a childish truism.
> 
> Though I realized what the rube intended to say was, "Had we not allowed Muslims into the United States, there may have been no Boston Marathon bombing."  This does NOT translate to:
> 
> "The OP is in favor of deporting Muslim immigrants."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, several childism truisms on this thread......like this one.
> 
> *If we did not allow immigrants into this country, there would be no Boston.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am in favor of deporting all foreign Muslim immigrants - ABSOLUTELY!
> 
> Just FYI, when the Declaration of Independence, Constitution and Bill of Rights were signed, Washington, Jefferson, Franklin and Adams were not men of the church.  In fact they feared it.
Click to expand...


Just FYI you know nothing about the Founding Fathers.  Who tells people that bullshit?


----------



## ABikerSailor

Beachboy said:


> BallsBrunswick said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not familiar with the OP but based off this thread, he may be on of the dumbest people I've encountered on the website. Hope you're pretty because you're not making it anywhere in this life on your brains.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just what you would expect.  BallsBrunswick can not discuss this issue with facts, links and logic, so he turns to name calling.
> 
> Let me see if I can dumb it down for you.
> 
> 1).  The Boston Marathon bombers were Muslims from the third world.
> 
> 2).  The older one was rejected for U. S. citizenship for assaulting his wife.
> 
> 3).  A "dirty bomb" was made to hurt, maim, and kill as many Americans as possible because they had wasted their American opportunity.
> 
> 4).  The older bomber claimed to have made no American friends during the ten years he had been here.
> 
> 5).  If these foreign Muslims had not been in the country, they could not have exploded the bombs at the Boston Marathon.  It is just that simple.  We should learn from this.  *The Marathon bombing was avoidable.*
> 
> 6).  Look at the philosophies of these "Johnny Jihads."  They were not 21st century Americans.   Time to clean house. Living in the United States is privilege.  Deportation solves more problems than it creates.
> 
> Case closed.  Figured it out yet, genius?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .​
Click to expand...


Do you even know what a "dirty bomb" is?  I'll clue you in...............it's a conventional bomb packed with NUCLEAR MATERIAL that won't provide a nuclear explosion, but because of all the nuclear material in it, WILL cause radiation poisoning for a certain radius around the bomb.

The bombs used at the Boston marathon were conventional bombs that were packed with shrapnel.

As far as the rest of your bullshit?  The eldest MARRIED an American woman who later converted to Islam.

The youngest one that they have in custody was made a naturalized citizen in 2012.

What other bigoted crap ya got?


----------



## ABikerSailor

People like BitchBoi probably think that there is no difference between Hindus, Sikhs or Muslims.

It's people like him that go and shoot up Sikh temples, thinking they're somehow getting back at the Islamic radicals.


----------



## Pogo

OK, somebody's got to at least start this.... the material is just too bizarre.  I give you the first installment of........

Breechboy's Greatest Hits!   A handy compendium.   Save page clicks.

Breechboy the cartographer:​


Beachboy said:


> European culture is American, and it will stay that way.


huh?


Breechboy the advocate of police *bombing*:​


Beachboy said:


> ... why not use exactly the same weapon that foreign Muslims used on us in Boston?
> 
> Frankly, I don't believe in that kind of violence except by professional law enforcement.


Hey, the MOVE bombing only destroyed 65 houses.  Why not.



Breechboy the Constitutional scholar:


Beachboy said:


> Shoot to kill is the American way of the Second Amendment to the U. S. Constitution.






Breechboy the news hound:


Beachboy said:


> Wnen Muslims insisted on a Mosque at Ground Zero, Donald Trump offed to buy the land to settle it in a neighborly fashion.   Muslims insisted on their rights.


Damn you, rights!  



Breechboy the paranoiac seeing a Muslim behind every post:


Beachboy said:


> You refuse to take responsibility and make amends for the Boston Marathon bombing.  You will be feeling a lot more pain.   Network news will have a field day when the mother of those Muslim bombers gets here.  We have a lot of guns in America, someone will shoot her to the applause of a grateful nation.






Breechboy the media analyst:


Beachboy said:


> And, you are not watching American television news which is American reality.






Breechboy the ethicist:


Beachboy said:


> America can destroy anyone we like without jeopardizing an American life.
> Hell, the pilot can be home for supper with his wife and kids after a day of killing Muslims.  Bottom line, our way or die.





But these two are my favourites.....



Beachboy said:


> My bachelors is Mass Media from UCDavis, and my is Masters in Advertising is from Northwestern.
> 
> Yep, guys like me create "perception."  Anyone can flip switches at a television station.  I doubt you are in CFR, you would have to be Bill Clinton or Scott Pelley.  You really are a pathetically bad liar.  You are so desperate to win.
> 
> I have eight years in account management at a national advertising agency. And, I have a Clio.


(CFR = Code of Federal Regulations, which codifies broadcast law)

and



Beachboy said:


> America's image of the red, white and blue as a beacon of freedom to the world is what we in marketing call "Gloss."  ... Gloss brings out patriotism.



Why these are my favourites: he claims to be in advertising.... and look at what a stellar job he's doing selling the concept of bigotry.
Quite the "perception" he's "created".  

That's only half the thread.  Didn't even go into Photoshop.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Yo.......................BitchBoi..................guess you're gonna abandon this thread, because you've been proven to be a bigoted asshole who doesn't really know what they speak of.

Wanna talk about the "dirty bombs" again?


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> OK, somebody's got to at least start this.... the material is just too bizarre.  I give you the first installment of........
> 
> Breechboy's Greatest Hits!   A handy compendium.   Save page clicks.
> 
> Breechboy the cartographer:​
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> European culture is American, and it will stay that way.
> 
> 
> 
> huh?
> Breechboy the advocate of police *bombing*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... why not use exactly the same weapon that foreign Muslims used on us in Boston?
> Frankly, I don't believe in that kind of violence except by professional law enforcement.[/quoteHey, the MOVE bombing only destroyed 65 houses.  Why not.
> Breechboy the Constitutional scholar:
> Breechboy the news hound:
> Damn you, rights!
> Breechboy the paranoiac seeing a Muslim behind every post:
> Breechboy the media analyst:
> Breechboy the ethicist:
> But these two are my favourites.....
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> My bachelors is Mass Media from UCDavis, and my is Masters in Advertising is from Northwestern.
> 
> Yep, guys like me create "perception."  Anyone can flip switches at a television station.  I doubt you are in CFR, you would have to be Bill Clinton or Scott Pelley.  You really are a pathetically bad liar.  You are so desperate to win.
> 
> I have eight years in account management at a national advertising agency. And, I have a Clio.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> (CFR = Code of Federal Regulations, which codifies broadcast law)and
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> America's image of the red, white and blue as a beacon of freedom to the world is what we in marketing call "Gloss."  ... Gloss brings out patriotism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why these are my favourites: he claims to be in advertising.... and look at what a stellar job he's doing selling the concept of bigotry.
> Quite the "perception" he's "created".
> 
> That's only half the thread.  Didn't even go into Photoshop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *ASKED AND ANSWERED - THIS POST, A WASTE OF YOUR TIME, FAILED RERUNS! *
> 
> *
> Pick, pick, pick.  The words of a traitor to the United States have no credibility in this forum.*
> 
> _____________________________________________​ ​ I joined this forum to debate American politics with my fellow citizens.  Little did I know I would end up being attacked by third world Muslims, rerunning the same tired name-calling every day.
> 
> At work, when I have something to say, I write a memo.  I write it once, and expect it to be read and implemented.  Hence, I am no longer going to repeat my responses for every Johnny Jihad that comes along with a fanatical idea.  Instead I will post this message unless there is original thought, then I will address it.
> 
> We have *traitor**s* here to the United States of America who believe taking American lives on 9-11, and at the Boston Marathon Bombing was acceptable.  It is my intention to address these ignorant barbarians until they get the point.  _To stay here, your loyalty must be to the United States first, not __violent Islam._  Foreign Muslims are the enemy.  Islam is not a religion, it is a twisted version of the _Quaran_ endorsing murder.
> 
> To answer your particular questions read this entire thread.  Your answers are already here or you would not be reading this.  Don't waste my time because you have a third rate education, and do not understand the superiority of Western culture.
> _____________________________________________
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
Click to expand...


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just remember this FBI figure, after 9-11 violence against Muslims in the United States increased by 1700%!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- if that's true, ignorami like you are the reason why.
> 
> Was that supposed to be some kind of threat, rather than a confession?
Click to expand...


Unlike pro-murder foreign Muslims posting here in this forum, I provide facts and here they are.  The 1700% Increase in violence was reported in *YOUR* publication _The Journal 0f Muslim Mental Health_.  Attitudes Toward Muslim Americans Post-9/11  You betray your ignorance and propagandizing by ignoring the facts.  In the war for the minds of the American people, foreign Muslims have already lost.  You are attacking when you should be apologizing.  But now, don't bother it is too late for that.  Payback is already under way.


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just remember this FBI figure, after 9-11 violence against Muslims in the United States increased by 1700%!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- if that's true, ignorami like you are the reason why.
> 
> Was that supposed to be some kind of threat, rather than a confession?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unlike pro-murdering foreign Muslims posting here, I provide facts and here they are.  The 1700% Increase in violence was reported in YOUR publication.  Attitudes Toward Muslim Americans Post-9/11  You betray your ignorance and propagandizing by ignoring the facts.  In the war for the minds of the American people, foreign Muslims have already lost.  You are attacking when you should be apologizing.  But now, don't bother it is too late for that.  Payback is already under way.
> 
> ​
Click to expand...


I have a _publication _now??

What the hell would you know about it if I did??

Get yourself to a mental health clinic.  Seriously.


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I don't know.  Do you think murdering three of my fellow American citizens, and maiming dozens more might piss off the American people?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't someone already tell PUSSYboy that one of the victims of the Boston Marathon bombing was not a US citizen? Do you think PUSSYboy even bothers to read replies, or does he spend all his time posting oversized pics?
> 
> He really reminds me of that asshole who went similarly crazy over "anchor babies" a while back until he was finally banned. Very similar M.O.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not only did Hoosier88 tell him that; he actually quoted it (and mangled the quote, attributing it to C_Clayton_Jones) and still managed to somehow ignore it even though it was in bold in the same post.  He must have been too busy looking for the "size=85" "extra bold" "screaming purple" font.
> 
> Apparently he believes that by ignoring facts like that, like Masjid al-Farah, like any connection between Boston and Islam, like the Constitution, that these inconveniences will just.... disappear.
Click to expand...


Oh, drivel on.  

The only fact to remember in this thread is that "If the United States did not allow foreign Muslims, there would not have been a Boston Marathon Bombing. 

Drop the extraneous crap, and get on topic.  This thread is not a place to empty your third world Islam barbarian brain!


----------



## jasonnfree

asaratis said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we did not allow immigrants into this country, there would be no Boston.
> 
> 
> Duh!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So Boston would cease to exist if we deported all the Muslims from foreign countries?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What a silly fuckin' thing to say.  This entire country is descended from immigrants...except for the native American Indians that were fucked out of their homeland by European immigrants.
Click to expand...


But other foreigners don't act like muslims.    Their record of violence speaks for itself in France, England, Sweden and Italy. They have a special grudge against USA due to our interfering in their homeland for oil company profits.  Out of self preservation,  put a stop to immigration of muslims.     And maybe all immigration while we have a fragile recovery.


----------



## Unkotare

jasonnfree said:


> Out of self preservation,  put a stop to immigration of muslims.     And maybe all immigration while we have a fragile recovery.





The way to deal with the challenges facing America never has been and never will be to stop being America. Remember that if you truly care about and understand this great nation.


----------



## bripat9643

Unkotare said:


> jasonnfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Out of self preservation,  put a stop to immigration of muslims.     And maybe all immigration while we have a fragile recovery.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The way to deal with the challenges facing America never has been and never will be to stop being America. Remember that if you truly care about and understand this great nation.
Click to expand...


There's nothing particularly American about unlimited immigration.


----------



## bripat9643

ABikerSailor said:


> People like BitchBoi probably think that there is no difference between Hindus, Sikhs or Muslims.
> 
> It's people like him that go and shoot up Sikh temples, thinking they're somehow getting back at the Islamic radicals.



Muslims are the ones who shoot up Sikh temples, numskull.


----------



## Pogo

bripat9643 said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> People like BitchBoi probably think that there is no difference between Hindus, Sikhs or Muslims.
> 
> It's people like him that go and shoot up Sikh temples, thinking they're somehow getting back at the Islamic radicals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims are the ones who shoot up Sikh temples, numskull.
Click to expand...


Neo-Nazi white supremacist "Muslim" here.

smh....


----------



## WethePeopleUS

Beachboy said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typically, the wing-nuts come right out of the woodwork.  Did I say   "Muslims" or "Foreign Muslims" in the OP?  Did I say anything about   people of any religion NOT being buried anywhere?  Did anyone see me   spit on anyone else?  No not at all.
> 
> Then people wonder why my signature is says I am "pissed off."  Once we   get rid of and keep out the "foreign Muslims" we can go to work on the   incredible stupidity of  some American voters.  These people are so  dumb  they don't even vote for their own best interest!​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're new here.  TM is the dumbest shit-for-brains liberal we have   here.  Best thing you can do is just laugh at the stupidity of people   like her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you for the input, I will make note of TM.
> 
> These people who can not think for themselves are really irritating,   which is why I am pointing out that I have been a Republican and a   Democrat, but today I am simply pissed at both of parties.
> 
> I will save my remarks on Republicans for another time.  The left is   running around like chickens with their heads cut off. They are so   worried about being "Politically Correct," or protecting someone's   "civil rights" that they miss the obvious.  Did you know that La Raza   did a successful campaign to get television stations to drop the word   "Wetback" and "Illegal Alien" to replace it with the word "Migrant?"    Wouldn't want to offend the freeloaders would we?
> 
> Hell President Eisenhower's deportation program was called in official   government documents, "Operation Wetback."  But, today it is not PC to   call these INVADERS "Wetbacks" or "foreign Muslims" who come to the   United States to bleed our welfare, education, and health care system   dry.  Now with they are cocky and tell natural born U. S. citizens that   we owe them, and should thank them for building more slums.
> 
> So, next comes the post from some ultra-liberal or even or foreign   Muslim calling me a "racist."  Forget that one side of my family has   been here over 300 years!*
> 
> The Boston Marathon Bombing was preventable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *.*
> *
Click to expand...


HAHA you're seriously worried about "foreign" Muslims coming to the   United States to bleed our welfare, education, and health care system   dry?" There are too many citizens that do that already. You should probably worry about that first!


----------



## WethePeopleUS

bripat9643 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jasonnfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Out of self preservation,  put a stop to immigration of muslims.     And maybe all immigration while we have a fragile recovery.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The way to deal with the challenges facing America never has been and never will be to stop being America. Remember that if you truly care about and understand this great nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's nothing particularly American about unlimited immigration.
Click to expand...


America will always be about immigration. If we close off our borders, we will lose what makes this nation great. As long as you are not an enemy of the state, you should be allowed to come to this country and have a better life. People risk their lives every day to try for a life in America!! If we close our borders, we will lose a sense of who we are. Our country was founded by refugees from all around the world. What gives us the right to change that?


----------



## S.J.

WethePeopleUS said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The way to deal with the challenges facing America never has been and never will be to stop being America. Remember that if you truly care about and understand this great nation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing particularly American about unlimited immigration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> America will always be about immigration. If we close off our borders, we will lose what makes this nation great. As long as you are not an enemy of the state, you should be allowed to come to this country and have a better life. People risk their lives every day to try for a life in America!! If we close our borders, we will lose a sense of who we are. Our country was founded by refugees from all around the world. What gives us the right to change that?
Click to expand...

Fine, if they support themselves and don't murder our citizens!  Otherwise, they have no business here.


----------



## WethePeopleUS

S.J. said:


> WethePeopleUS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing particularly American about unlimited immigration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> America will always be about immigration. If we close off our borders, we will lose what makes this nation great. As long as you are not an enemy of the state, you should be allowed to come to this country and have a better life. People risk their lives every day to try for a life in America!! If we close our borders, we will lose a sense of who we are. Our country was founded by refugees from all around the world. What gives us the right to change that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fine, if they support themselves and don't murder our citizens!  Otherwise, they have no business here.
Click to expand...


I couldn't agree more!! And it is the job of the FBI, CIA, and NSA to decide which ones are "troublemakers" and keep them out of our country. Everyone else should be allowed to come, and enjoy a better life.


----------



## Unkotare

bripat9643 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jasonnfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Out of self preservation,  put a stop to immigration of muslims.     And maybe all immigration while we have a fragile recovery.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The way to deal with the challenges facing America never has been and never will be to stop being America. Remember that if you truly care about and understand this great nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's nothing particularly American about unlimited immigration.
Click to expand...




Who said anything about "unlimited"?


----------



## Unkotare

bripat9643 said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> People like BitchBoi probably think that there is no difference between Hindus, Sikhs or Muslims.
> 
> It's people like him that go and shoot up Sikh temples, thinking they're somehow getting back at the Islamic radicals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims are the ones who shoot up Sikh temples, numskull.
Click to expand...



You really don't know what he was referring to? Keep up with the news much?


----------



## 9MMare

Beachboy said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Finally you grudgingly admit that I am right, no foreign Muslims in the United States, no Boston Marathon Bombing.  The more we get rid of the fewer we have to worry about, giving us more time to focus on our home-grown terrorists who are legitimately our problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see the facetiousness flew blissfully over your head.  Why am I not surprised...
> 
> I'll come back to clean up the rest when I get really really bored.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What part of;
> 
> *"No foreign Muslims in the United States, no Boston Marathon Bombing,"*​
> don't you understand?
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...


LOL (Yes, I read your 'credentials' in some other post. Hard to believe when you imply that not allowing foreign Muslims in is an actual solution.)

First, no cars...no car accidents. Let's get rid of all the cars.

no pools, no more backyard drownings.

no horses or cows, no fertilizer for big dangerous cheap bombs

So we'll just restrict the freedom of American Muslims by not allowing their families, relatives, friends to come visit them? Force their families/friends to undergo invasive (and expensive) investigations before they enter the country?  

Not allow American Muslims to go abroad and visit other countries? Not allow any Americans to go visit certain other countries or track their movements (as non-Muslim Americans have gone abroad and joined terrorist training camps).

The 'big bold red' is a shortsighted juvenile statement with no way to enforce that is basically anti-Constitutional and disrespectful of a large group of American citizens (Muslim or otherwise).

Or is that not what you are implying with that statement. I did see where it came from but it seemed to stand on its own.


----------



## WethePeopleUS

I think that Mr. Bitchboy has lost any credibility he MIGHT have had when he made this thread, and defended his words to the death. Perhaps if by us talking to him, he wised up and said okay I made a mistake, we could have listen to what he said... but I am afraid he has shown his ignorance and then some by some of his posts here


----------



## Beachboy

Crackerjaxon said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, several childism truisms on this thread......like this one.
> 
> *If we did not allow immigrants into this country, there would be no Boston.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am in favor of deporting all foreign Muslim immigrants - ABSOLUTELY!
> 
> Just FYI, when the Declaration of Independence, Constitution and Bill of Rights were signed, Washington, Jefferson, Franklin and Adams were not men of the church.  In fact they feared it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just FYI you know nothing about the Founding Fathers.  Who tells people that bullshit?
Click to expand...


I am getting quite tired of illiterate people telling me I do not understand American history.  It was my minor in college, and here is a link to back up my remarks about the founding fathers and religion.  The U.S. Founding Fathers: Their Religious Beliefs | Britannica Blog

You have no fact links because there is none.  You are ignorant about American history, you obviously did not study it or you would know this. You have some nerve coming to my country to TELL me.  Is it any wonder Americans want you and barbarian third world foreign Muslim ilk to leave the United States?  We do not need your ignorance here.  America got by just fine for years without you!




​


----------



## WethePeopleUS

Beachboy said:


> Crackerjaxon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am in favor of deporting all foreign Muslim immigrants - ABSOLUTELY!
> 
> Just FYI, when the Declaration of Independence, Constitution and Bill of Rights were signed, Washington, Jefferson, Franklin and Adams were not men of the church.  In fact they feared it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just FYI you know nothing about the Founding Fathers.  Who tells people that bullshit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am getting quite tired of illiterate people telling me I do not understand American history.  It was my minor in college, and here is a link to back up my remarks about the founding fathers and religion.  The U.S. Founding Fathers: Their Religious Beliefs | Britannica Blog
> 
> You have no fact links because there is none.  You are ignorant about American history, you obviously did not study it or you would know this. You have some nerve coming to my country to TELL me.  Is it any wonder Americans want you and barbarian third world foreign Muslim ilk to leave the United States?  We do not need your ignorance here.  America got by just fine for years without you!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
Click to expand...


The Founding Fathers were Christians, but not like the ones today. They did not fear the church, as was stated earlier. Rather, they feared mixing religion with politics. Remember that a lot of people came to this country seeking religious freedom. They came from countries where they were persecuted for their religious beliefs. Therefore the FF knew that we could not mix religion with our state politics. The FF were Deists, which means they believed in a higher being, call it God or whatever. But they believed that He created all of this, and then stepped back. They do not believe that he has the every day-to-day interaction that most Christians believe. However, they were religious men. And they knew the importance of being able to practice your religion without facing penalties.


----------



## bripat9643

Pogo said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> People like BitchBoi probably think that there is no difference between Hindus, Sikhs or Muslims.
> 
> It's people like him that go and shoot up Sikh temples, thinking they're somehow getting back at the Islamic radicals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims are the ones who shoot up Sikh temples, numskull.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neo-Nazi white supremacist "Muslim" here.
> 
> smh....
Click to expand...


The majority of attacks on Sikhs occur in India by Muslims.  Violence by neo-nazis is so rare it's virtually non-existent.  However, never let liberal journalist fail to trump it into something 1000 times worse that it is.  Liberals always need a white guy to blame for the world's problems.


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1624 Views of this thread.  America loves it when I say it for them.
> 
> Can you tell which picture does not fit in with America?  Look real hard!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah.  Your avatar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1624 views, he pants and gasps.  And every one of them is laughing at you.
Click to expand...


Do I detect a bit of hatred toward blond-haired, blue-eyed, native born Americans?  Like I care.  

One look and you can tell I belong in the United States or Europe.  Eat your heart out.  You are looking at the real thing, and you will never look this good!







Just the way we look intimidates Muslims sexually.    ​


----------



## bripat9643

WethePeopleUS said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The way to deal with the challenges facing America never has been and never will be to stop being America. Remember that if you truly care about and understand this great nation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing particularly American about unlimited immigration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> America will always be about immigration. If we close off our borders, we will lose what makes this nation great.
Click to expand...


Really, what's that, gang violence?  Drug trafficking?  Illegitimacy?



WethePeopleUS said:


> As long as you are not an enemy of the state, you should be allowed to come to this country and have a better life.



Horse shit.  We don't need to be the dumping ground for the world's trash.  No one has a right to immigrate to this country.  Our immigration laws should be designed for the beneift of Americans, not the benefit of foriegners.



WethePeopleUS said:


> People risk their lives every day to try for a life in America!! If we close our borders, we will lose a sense of who we are. Our country was founded by refugees from all around the world. What gives us the right to change that?



The fact that we live here gives us that right.  Every other country in the world controls its borders.  It's pure idiocy to claim we aren't entitled to control ours.


----------



## bripat9643

WethePeopleUS said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WethePeopleUS said:
> 
> 
> 
> America will always be about immigration. If we close off our borders, we will lose what makes this nation great. As long as you are not an enemy of the state, you should be allowed to come to this country and have a better life. People risk their lives every day to try for a life in America!! If we close our borders, we will lose a sense of who we are. Our country was founded by refugees from all around the world. What gives us the right to change that?
> 
> 
> 
> Fine, if they support themselves and don't murder our citizens!  Otherwise, they have no business here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I couldn't agree more!! And it is the job of the FBI, CIA, and NSA to decide which ones are "troublemakers" and keep them out of our country. Everyone else should be allowed to come, and enjoy a better life.
Click to expand...


WeThePeopleUS


----------



## bripat9643

Unkotare said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> People like BitchBoi probably think that there is no difference between Hindus, Sikhs or Muslims.
> 
> It's people like him that go and shoot up Sikh temples, thinking they're somehow getting back at the Islamic radicals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims are the ones who shoot up Sikh temples, numskull.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You really don't know what he was referring to? Keep up with the news much?
Click to expand...


Yes I do


----------



## bripat9643

9MMare said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see the facetiousness flew blissfully over your head.  Why am I not surprised...
> 
> I'll come back to clean up the rest when I get really really bored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What part of;
> 
> *"No foreign Muslims in the United States, no Boston Marathon Bombing,"*​
> don't you understand?
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL (Yes, I read your 'credentials' in some other post. Hard to believe when you imply that not allowing foreign Muslims in is an actual solution.)
> 
> First, no cars...no car accidents. Let's get rid of all the cars.
> 
> no pools, no more backyard drownings.
> 
> no horses or cows, no fertilizer for big dangerous cheap bombs
Click to expand...


There's a benefit to cars, pools, horses and cows.  whats' the benefit to allowing Muslims to immigrate to the U.S.?



9MMare said:


> So we'll just restrict the freedom of American Muslims by not allowing their families, relatives, friends to come visit them? Force their families/friends to undergo invasive (and expensive) investigations before they enter the country?



why should we allow anyone to come here just because they are related to someone living here?



9MMare said:


> Not allow American Muslims to go abroad and visit other countries? Not allow any Americans to go visit certain other countries or track their movements (as non-Muslim Americans have gone abroad and joined terrorist training camps).



They already have visas.  That isn't being discussed here.



9MMare said:


> The 'big bold red' is a shortsighted juvenile statement with no way to enforce that is basically anti-Constitutional and disrespectful of a large group of American citizens (Muslim or otherwise).
> 
> Or is that not what you are implying with that statement. I did see where it came from but it seemed to stand on its own.



It's easily enforceable and constitutional.  Who do you think you're fooling?  The fact that you're worrying that American Muslims would get their nose out of joint only shows we should have done it sooner rather than later.


----------



## Beachboy

bripat9643 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims are the ones who shoot up Sikh temples, numskull.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neo-Nazi white supremacist "Muslim" here.
> 
> smh....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The majority of attacks on Sikhs occur in India by Muslims.  Violence by neo-nazis is so rare it's virtually non-existent.  However, never let liberal journalist fail to trump it into something 1000 times worse that it is.  Liberals always need a white guy to blame for the world's problems.
Click to expand...


Having once been a liberal Democrat and a Conservative Republican before becoming an Independent, I can tell you there are two kind of liberals in America.

The first have not thought it through.  Just love everyone, and the world will solve its problems.  In their idealism they are naive, and do not understand the reality that our country has enemies that would take everything from them and leave them for dead.

The second group of liberals are *PRACTICAL.*  While they are idealistically oriented to a better planet for everyone, they are realistic.  They know there are not enough resources for everyone.  They view overpopulation as a problem of mindless people out of control.  These liberals realize it is a law of nature for the inferior to die out.  They understand and accept the laws of the jungle while progressively working to build a better world.

Liberals are not as outspoken about problems with foreign Muslims as are Conservatives.  The Conservative is direct.  They spot a problem.  They investigate it's source, and take care of the problem directly.  Conservatives will stick it to the overpopulating minorities in the Immigration Reform Act.  *PRACTICAL* liberals will quietly pass the legislation.  And out-of-touch idealistic liberals will continue to accomplish nothing by shouting at windmills.  Appears we have quite a few of these out-of-touch liberals in this thread.  Most are foreign Muslims trying to keep their lips on the welfare teat of America.


----------



## WethePeopleUS

bripat9643 said:


> WethePeopleUS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing particularly American about unlimited immigration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> America will always be about immigration. If we close off our borders, we will lose what makes this nation great.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really, what's that, gang violence?  Drug trafficking?  Illegitimacy?
> 
> 
> 
> WethePeopleUS said:
> 
> 
> 
> As long as you are not an enemy of the state, you should be allowed to come to this country and have a better life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Horse shit.  We don't need to be the dumping ground for the world's trash.  No one has a right to immigrate to this country.  Our immigration laws should be designed for the beneift of Americans, not the benefit of foriegners.
> 
> 
> 
> WethePeopleUS said:
> 
> 
> 
> People risk their lives every day to try for a life in America!! If we close our borders, we will lose a sense of who we are. Our country was founded by refugees from all around the world. What gives us the right to change that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The fact that we live here gives us that right.  Every other country in the world controls its borders.  It's pure idiocy to claim we aren't entitled to control ours.
Click to expand...

*
Really, what's that, gang violence?  Drug trafficking?  Illegitimacy?*
Diversity my friend. It's what makes us different. It's what makes us unique. It's one of the reasons that has allowed us to be the most successful countries in the world. If you have ever studied economics..

*Horse shit.  We don't need to be the dumping ground for the world's trash.  No one has a right to immigrate to this country.  Our immigration laws should be designed for the beneift of Americans, not the benefit of foriegners.*

I am sorry you feel that way. I personally, would welcome women from Africa who are getting raped and sold into slavery. I would gladly welcome someone trying to come to this country because they will get killed in theirs for their religious belief. You know why? Because I am a human being, with compassion. Call me what you will but just because we had the luck to be born here in America, does not give us the right to deprive others of a better life, because they had the luck of being born into a worse condition than us. And not a single American is advocating making foreigners lives easier and more beneficial than ours, so cool it with the conspiracy theories.  

*The fact that we live here gives us that right.  Every other country in the world controls its borders.  It's pure idiocy to claim we aren't entitled to control ours.*

The fact that we were *lucky* enough to be born here, should motivate us to help others to strive for a better existence. How you have the audacity to sit here and say, "Hey, sorry you weren't lucky enough to be born here, but ughhh fuck off," is despicable. I shutter to call you a fellow American. Less you forget that we all migrated to this country at some point or another, unless you are a Native American. How would you like it if your family had gotten denied access to America whenever it is you all came here, and instead of being born here, you were born in some other country, that exercised forms of oppression? I bet you would be singing a different tune then. And you are right... absolutely right that other countries control their borders, and monitor everyone who comes in and out. As well as not letting people leave, or letting anyone in. But those countries are not America. If we wish to be a poor example of a country, then by all means, lets stop doing everything we usually do, and adopt other countries methods. Don't know if you realized this, but we are the youngest, most powerful country in the world. And now that we have reached that position you wish to abandon the very same methods that allowed us to achieve this success.


----------



## WethePeopleUS

bripat9643 said:


> WethePeopleUS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing particularly American about unlimited immigration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> America will always be about immigration. If we close off our borders, we will lose what makes this nation great.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really, what's that, gang violence?  Drug trafficking?  Illegitimacy?
> 
> 
> 
> WethePeopleUS said:
> 
> 
> 
> As long as you are not an enemy of the state, you should be allowed to come to this country and have a better life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Horse shit.  We don't need to be the dumping ground for the world's trash.  No one has a right to immigrate to this country.  Our immigration laws should be designed for the beneift of Americans, not the benefit of foriegners.
> 
> 
> 
> WethePeopleUS said:
> 
> 
> 
> People risk their lives every day to try for a life in America!! If we close our borders, we will lose a sense of who we are. Our country was founded by refugees from all around the world. What gives us the right to change that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The fact that we live here gives us that right.  Every other country in the world controls its borders.  It's pure idiocy to claim we aren't entitled to control ours.
Click to expand...




bripat9643 said:


> WethePeopleUS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fine, if they support themselves and don't murder our citizens!  Otherwise, they have no business here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't agree more!! And it is the job of the FBI, CIA, and NSA to decide which ones are "troublemakers" and keep them out of our country. Everyone else should be allowed to come, and enjoy a better life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WeThePeopleUS
Click to expand...


yes?


----------



## Beachboy

A few have tried to portray my views about Muslims as fringe.  Well, here is Bill Maher, America's favorite liberal pundit slamming Muslim.  

These are things every American needs to know.


----------



## Yurt

i can't believe this thread is still going


----------



## Beachboy

WethePeopleUS said:


> America will always be about immigration. If we close off our borders,  we will lose what makes this nation great. As long as you are not an  enemy of the state, you should be allowed to come to this country and  have a better life. People risk their lives every day to try for a life  in America!! If we close our borders, we will lose a sense of who we  are. Our country was founded by refugees from all around the world. What  gives us the right to change that?






WethePeopleUS said:


> HAHA you're seriously worried about "foreign" Muslims coming to the   United States to bleed our welfare, education, and health care system   dry?" There are too many citizens that do that already. You should probably worry about that first!


*

Always the strong declarative statement, but never supported by fact/links.  You have no credibility. *

There are millions of people, legal and illegal immigrants to be deported.  Those that can not show they have worked to make America better will be the first to go.  Obama has already started by deporting convicted felons first, a measure both parties have endorsed.  More will come with the Immigration Reform Act.  America has been way too kind to immigrants.  Time to clean house with the Immigration Reform Act.






This legislation is practically dead due to the foreign Muslims who perpetrated the Boston Marathon Bombing.  Muslims will be hurt, but unfortunately Hispanics will be hurt the most.​


----------



## Yurt

beachboy

stfu


----------



## Beachboy

WethePeopleUS said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WethePeopleUS said:
> 
> 
> 
> America will always be about immigration. If we close off our borders, we will lose what makes this nation great. As long as you are not an enemy of the state, you should be allowed to come to this country and have a better life. People risk their lives every day to try for a life in America!! If we close our borders, we will lose a sense of who we are. Our country was founded by refugees from all around the world. What gives us the right to change that?
> 
> 
> 
> Fine, if they support themselves and don't murder our citizens!  Otherwise, they have no business here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I couldn't agree more!! And it is the job of the FBI, CIA, and NSA to decide which ones are "troublemakers" and keep them out of our country. Everyone else should be allowed to come, and enjoy a better life.
Click to expand...







Sorry, the United States is full.  We are closed for immigration of Muslims.​


----------



## Beachboy

9MMare said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see the facetiousness flew blissfully over your head.  Why am I not surprised...
> 
> I'll come back to clean up the rest when I get really really bored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What part of;
> 
> *"No foreign Muslims in the United States, no Boston Marathon Bombing,"*​
> don't you understand?
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL (Yes, I read your 'credentials' in some other post. Hard to believe when you imply that not allowing foreign Muslims in is an actual solution.)
> 
> First, no cars...no car accidents. Let's get rid of all the cars.
> 
> no pools, no more backyard drownings.
> 
> no horses or cows, no fertilizer for big dangerous cheap bombs
> 
> So we'll just restrict the freedom of American Muslims by not allowing their families, relatives, friends to come visit them? Force their families/friends to undergo invasive (and expensive) investigations before they enter the country?
> 
> Not allow American Muslims to go abroad and visit other countries? Not allow any Americans to go visit certain other countries or track their movements (as non-Muslim Americans have gone abroad and joined terrorist training camps).
> 
> The 'big bold red' is a shortsighted juvenile statement with no way to enforce that is basically anti-Constitutional and disrespectful of a large group of American citizens (Muslim or otherwise).
> 
> Or is that not what you are implying with that statement. I did see where it came from but it seemed to stand on its own.
Click to expand...


We have lost 2,980 innocent people at the World Trade Center, and the Boston Marathon.  You chose to deal with reality by playing word games.  I don't have time for your ignorance.  If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.  Read the signs, genius!














*Time to wake up, Homer!*




​


----------



## Beachboy

WethePeopleUS said:


> I think that Mr. Bitchboy has lost any credibility he MIGHT have had when he made this thread, and defended his words to the death. Perhaps if by us talking to him, he wised up and said okay I made a mistake, we could have listen to what he said... but I am afraid he has shown his ignorance and then some by some of his posts here



I support my opinions with facts, links, and graphics.  Now here is a new research study that proves Americans are with me.

*2/3 of People think Islam is incompatible with American life.*​* 
**



*

Poll: Two-Thirds Of Republicans, Tea Partiers And Fox News Viewers Think Islam Is Incompatible With American Values | ThinkProgress​


----------



## ABikerSailor

bripat9643 said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> People like BitchBoi probably think that there is no difference between Hindus, Sikhs or Muslims.
> 
> It's people like him that go and shoot up Sikh temples, thinking they're somehow getting back at the Islamic radicals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims are the ones who shoot up Sikh temples, numskull.
Click to expand...


Really?  Are you sure of that?

Because the temple shooting was actually done by a former Army person who was also a white supremacist.....................



> On August 5, 2012, Wade Michael Page fatally shot six people and wounded four others in a mass shooting at a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin.[3][4] Page committed suicide by shooting himself in the head after he was shot in the stomach by a responding police officer.
> 
> *Page was an American white supremacist and United States Army veteran from Cudahy, Wisconsin*. All of the dead were members of the Sikh faith. The incident drew notable reactions from President Barack Obama and Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. Dignitaries attended candlelight vigils in countries such as the U.S., Canada, and India.[3][5][6] The First Lady Michelle Obama visited the temple on August 23, 2012.[7]



Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## ABikerSailor

bripat9643 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims are the ones who shoot up Sikh temples, numskull.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neo-Nazi white supremacist "Muslim" here.
> 
> smh....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The majority of attacks on Sikhs occur in India by Muslims.  Violence by neo-nazis is so rare it's virtually non-existent.  However, never let liberal journalist fail to trump it into something 1000 times worse that it is.  Liberals always need a white guy to blame for the world's problems.
Click to expand...


Hey stupid................I thought it was about all the problems with Muslims here in the US, which is why BitchBoi is screaming at the top of his shrill little lungs that all Muslims must be kicked out.

I challenge you to find an act of violence carried out in this country against Sikhs that was done by Muslims since 9/11/01.


----------



## WethePeopleUS

Beachboy said:


> WethePeopleUS said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think that Mr. Bitchboy has lost any credibility he MIGHT have had when he made this thread, and defended his words to the death. Perhaps if by us talking to him, he wised up and said okay I made a mistake, we could have listen to what he said... but I am afraid he has shown his ignorance and then some by some of his posts here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I support my opinions with facts, links, and graphics.  Now here is a new research study that proves Americans are with me.
> 
> *2/3 of People think Islam is incompatible with American life.*​*
> **
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Poll: Two-Thirds Of Republicans, Tea Partiers And Fox News Viewers Think Islam Is Incompatible With American Values | ThinkProgress​
Click to expand...


MMMMHHHMMMM facts you say? And your links are Faux News.. not really credible.. what they didn't teach you that when you were in college? If I were to use Faux News as a reference in one of my classes I would probably fail the paper. Nice try, but you will have to try harder in proving your case with these "so-called" facts. 

And this new research you speak of...absolutely ridiculous. You think because a poll conducted showed that 2/3 republicans and tea baggers think that Islam is incompatible with American life, that is what a majority of Americans think. You seriously dilute the truth and call it fact. Fact for you: the republican party and tea baggers, aren't the voice of America. Now I know that might be hard for you to digest, but give it time, and hopefully you might come to your senses. Until then, have fun living in fantasy land.


----------



## Beachboy

ABikerSailor said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> People like BitchBoi probably think that there is no difference between Hindus, Sikhs or Muslims.
> 
> It's people like him that go and shoot up Sikh temples, thinking they're somehow getting back at the Islamic radicals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims are the ones who shoot up Sikh temples, numskull.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really?  Are you sure of that?
> 
> Because the temple shooting was actually done by a former Army person who was also a white supremacist.....................
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On August 5, 2012, Wade Michael Page fatally shot six people and wounded four others in a mass shooting at a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin.[3][4] Page committed suicide by shooting himself in the head after he was shot in the stomach by a responding police officer.
> 
> *Page was an American white supremacist and United States Army veteran from Cudahy, Wisconsin*. All of the dead were members of the Sikh faith. The incident drew notable reactions from President Barack Obama and Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. Dignitaries attended candlelight vigils in countries such as the U.S., Canada, and India.[3][5][6] The First Lady Michelle Obama visited the temple on August 23, 2012.[7]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


If it is not about the foreign Muslims it is about the uninformed ultra leftists.  ABikerSailor goes on and on and on about Hindus, Sikhs, and Muslims.  Have I said anything about Hindus or Sikhs?  NO.

Have I said anything about the Oak Creek Temple shootings?  NO

The reason is simple.  It is off-topic.  Now how much dumber could a poster be than to bring up a subject that no one is talking about, which makes all his own pro-Muslim arguments look ridiculous.  Please keep it up, I love having you post information that supports my point of view.

*Bottom line;  If we did not allow Muslim foreigners into the United States **there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  *

* Yes it brings a chuckle because it is simple, but remember foreign Muslims are UNREPENTANT **murderers** and **traitors of your fellow American citizens.























*​


----------



## Beachboy

WethePeopleUS said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WethePeopleUS said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think that Mr. Bitchboy has lost any credibility he MIGHT have had when he made this thread, and defended his words to the death. Perhaps if by us talking to him, he wised up and said okay I made a mistake, we could have listen to what he said... but I am afraid he has shown his ignorance and then some by some of his posts here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I support my opinions with facts, links, and graphics.  Now here is a new research study that proves Americans are with me.
> 
> *2/3 of People think Islam is incompatible with American life.*​
> 
> Poll: Two-Thirds Of Republicans, Tea Partiers And Fox News Viewers Think Islam Is Incompatible With American Values | ThinkProgress​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> MMMMHHHMMMM facts you say? And your links are Faux News.. not really credible.. what they didn't teach you that when you were in college? If I were to use Faux News as a reference in one of my classes I would probably fail the paper. Nice try, but you will have to try harder in proving your case with these "so-called" facts.
> 
> And this new research you speak of...absolutely ridiculous. You think because a poll conducted showed that 2/3 republicans and tea baggers think that Islam is incompatible with American life, that is what a majority of Americans think. You seriously dilute the truth and call it fact. Fact for you: the republican party and tea baggers, aren't the voice of America. Now I know that might be hard for you to digest, but give it time, and hopefully you might come to your senses. Until then, have fun living in fantasy land.
Click to expand...

And you answered one of my test questions that your fellow pro-Muslim posters have missed.  But, you did not Google for correct answers, so I am going to shred you.

My statement is correct.  I said "people," but chose not to define that term.  So, my statement was correct, but obviously not the whole picture.   This is the second time a pro-Muslim has fucked up by not using a dictionary.   My post on the survey is accurate.

However, you get points for knowing Fox News is not a news organization, it is in fact a propaganda arm of the Republican Party.  I do not use Fox as a source, unless I can back it up with something more credible.

Here is the research study I should have posted, (it was intentional, not a mistake).  Attitudes Toward Muslim Americans Post-9/11  Unless you work with research all the time, you won't understand it.  So, here is the dumbed down version with an explanation. Poll: Many Americans uncomfortable with Muslims ? CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs  You see the problem with researching Muslims is this, most Americans don't know who Muslims are or that they live in the United States.  Now since the Boston bombing, they are learning.  The Muslim population in America is so small it is not on the radar of the average American.  So, as this study points out, accurate numbers are not available because most Americans of Muslim problems.  9-11 was viewed as "foreigners."  The Boston bombers are viewed as Muslims who were given a chance in America for ten years, failed, and blew up the Marathon.  

You morons have played right into your enemies hands.  This is why all the viewers in this thread, and you idiots are making all kinds of noise, because there are no facts to defend you.  Yet with 230 posts, not a single condolence from American Muslims for what happened in Boston.   Which brings me to my purpose in this thread.  Americans are learning here, and do not like what they see.  Viewers of this thread, 2,316 of them in a matter of days must be a USMB record.  They are not reading the words in posts, they are reading the links.  They want the facts.  The pro-Muslims here have not provided links, so all viewers have to read are *my* links without any opposition.  You people are simply downright stupid.  You are already ignoring this post because you are planning your blather for your next post.  This is why Muslims will never win, their intelligence and education, twisted by Islam is out of touch with reality.  Again, Islam is not compatible with America, and the government is going to have to do something about it.  It will probably be a tightening of law in the Immigration Reform Act.  Yep, four foreigners in Boston screwed up years of work by Hispanics on the immigration package.  It would not surprise me to see some of that hatred find its way to your Mosques.  You rub Mexicans the wrong way, they never forget.






Mexicans and Mexican Americans have worked for U. S. Citizenship for their folks since 1848, 
and foreign Muslims at the Boston Marathon screwed up the legislation.  
What do you think will happen next?
Well, we do know that according to the FBI hate crimes against Muslims after 9-11 increased 1700%.  
You figure it out. My sympathy is with my Hispanic brothers and sisters.​


----------



## Beachboy

ABikerSailor said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neo-Nazi white supremacist "Muslim" here.
> 
> smh....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The majority of attacks on Sikhs occur in India by Muslims.  Violence by neo-nazis is so rare it's virtually non-existent.  However, never let liberal journalist fail to trump it into something 1000 times worse that it is.  Liberals always need a white guy to blame for the world's problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey stupid................I thought it was about all the problems with Muslims here in the US, which is why BitchBoi is screaming at the top of his shrill little lungs that all Muslims must be kicked out.
> 
> I challenge you to find an act of violence carried out in this country against Sikhs that was done by Muslims since 9/11/01.
Click to expand...


What the fuck does your post have to do with this thread?  

If you want to know, Google it.  

There have been at least a half dozen incidents of Muslims killing American citizens since 9-11. 

If you have a point to make, do your own research, and prove your words.







The Muslim intellect!    ​


----------



## ABikerSailor

Just like I thought BitchBoi.....................you can't prove shit.

BTW.....................how the fuck is a CNN blog a reliable news site?


----------



## Beachboy

ABikerSailor said:


> Just like I thought BitchBoi.....................you can't prove shit.
> 
> BTW.....................how the fuck is a CNN blog a reliable news site?



Name-calling is all you have.  There are no facts to support the *traitors* who perpetrated 9-11 or the Boston Marathon Bombings.  So, you make a lot of noise to distract viewers of this thread -FAIL!

First I presented facts from Fox News.  Which I must agree is a a questionable source for information.  But the story is hard news, so I let it go.  Then I presented you with mainly the same information from CNN, and you called it a blog.  Again, you betray your ignorance.  Not surprising.  I would be interested to know what you think is a credible source.  Al Jazeer, which is predominently American owned?

If you or I write a blog, it is merely an opinion of one person.  However when CNN presents a blog/editorial it is a considered opinion based upon facts of their news organization.  In this case the writer is *Eric Marrapodi*, a *Co-Editor of CNN.*  I don't think you know what that means.  It means that *Mr. Marrapodi* is one of a few people that decides what goes on the air at CNN.  If *Mr. Marrapodi *makes a mistake, there is a good chance CNN will be sued.  

Any American with a basic education in media knows this.  Guess that tells the world what kind of education and experience you have.  Basically, none.  You are a Muslim noise machine, and *traitor* to the United States.


----------



## Beachboy

*MY CONCLUSIONS;*

As a businessman, any venture I am a part of is evaluated by me as to what is learned.  Frankly, as OP this thread, it has been a waste of time.  Muslims and their associates did not read posts, they only thought about the next propaganda they were going to post.  These are not bright nor stable people, and the foundation of their thinking is violent Islam bull shit.

One thing I have learned in 237 posts is that Muslims have shown no remorse, sadness, conciliation, or apology for innocent dead American citizens on 9-11 or the Boston Marathon Bombings.  *NOT ONE* extension of consideration for those murdered is shown in this thread.  The conclusion I draw is that Islam and America are not compatible.  Foreign Muslims are a threat to the American way of life.

As to my tactics of baiting and flaming, nothing gets people to tell the truth better than to make them angry.  My posted words are not as important as the *fact/links* I have provided viewers to make their own decisions about foreign Muslims.  Muslim posters offer nothing but their own defensive opinions, unsupported by facts.  They simply have nothing to offer.

I did not know much about Muslims when I began this thread 12 days ago, but now from their own words, I see them as *traitors* to the United States who gave them a chance.   They think their way is the only way.  Their minds are closed to any ideas except Islam.  They can not be reoriented and saved by America.  We made a mistake giving them a chance in democracy.  At least we tried, but now we know we were wrong to bring these barbarians here.   The Russians are correct in their dealings with Muslims - treat them like cattle, (Muslims always think they deserve more), and keep Muslims on a short leash.







*Hope viewers got something out of this thread.*​


----------



## 9MMare

bripat9643 said:


> 9MMare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of;
> 
> *"No foreign Muslims in the United States, no Boston Marathon Bombing,"*​
> don't you understand?
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL (Yes, I read your 'credentials' in some other post. Hard to believe when you imply that not allowing foreign Muslims in is an actual solution.)
> 
> First, no cars...no car accidents. Let's get rid of all the cars.
> 
> no pools, no more backyard drownings.
> 
> no horses or cows, no fertilizer for big dangerous cheap bombs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's a benefit to cars, pools, horses and cows.  whats' the benefit to allowing Muslims to immigrate to the U.S.?
> 
> 
> 
> why should we allow anyone to come here just because they are related to someone living here?
> 
> 
> 
> 9MMare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not allow American Muslims to go abroad and visit other countries? Not allow any Americans to go visit certain other countries or track their movements (as non-Muslim Americans have gone abroad and joined terrorist training camps).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They already have visas.  That isn't being discussed here.
> 
> 
> 
> 9MMare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 'big bold red' is a shortsighted juvenile statement with no way to enforce that is basically anti-Constitutional and disrespectful of a large group of American citizens (Muslim or otherwise).
> 
> Or is that not what you are implying with that statement. I did see where it came from but it seemed to stand on its own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's easily enforceable and constitutional.  Who do you think you're fooling?  The fact that you're worrying that American Muslims would get their nose out of joint only shows we should have done it sooner rather than later.
Click to expand...


We're going to prevent Americans from allowing their relatives and friends from visiting that they sponsor? Yeah, Muslim Americans...they have exactly the same rights as other Americans. On what grounds are you going to prevent their guests from entering the country? Are you going to stop the guests of other Americans from entering the country for no reason besides their religion?

And what value do Muslims bring to the US? Really? That is such an ignorant statement. I work with people from all over the world. Some are Muslims. They certainly do great work, and are great people. Most I know are no more publicly religious than most American Christians.

You seem to believe all Muslims worthless and haters. You certainly seem to hate all Muslims, so I don't see you as any better.


----------



## 9MMare

Beachboy said:


> 9MMare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of;
> 
> *"No foreign Muslims in the United States, no Boston Marathon Bombing,"*​
> don't you understand?
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL (Yes, I read your 'credentials' in some other post. Hard to believe when you imply that not allowing foreign Muslims in is an actual solution.)
> 
> First, no cars...no car accidents. Let's get rid of all the cars.
> 
> no pools, no more backyard drownings.
> 
> no horses or cows, no fertilizer for big dangerous cheap bombs
> 
> So we'll just restrict the freedom of American Muslims by not allowing their families, relatives, friends to come visit them? Force their families/friends to undergo invasive (and expensive) investigations before they enter the country?
> 
> Not allow American Muslims to go abroad and visit other countries? Not allow any Americans to go visit certain other countries or track their movements (as non-Muslim Americans have gone abroad and joined terrorist training camps).
> 
> The 'big bold red' is a shortsighted juvenile statement with no way to enforce that is basically anti-Constitutional and disrespectful of a large group of American citizens (Muslim or otherwise).
> 
> Or is that not what you are implying with that statement. I did see where it came from but it seemed to stand on its own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We have lost 2,980 innocent people at the World Trade Center, and the Boston Marathon.  You chose to deal with reality by playing word games.  I don't have time for your ignorance.  If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.  Read the signs, genius!
> 
> 
> *Time to wake up, Homer!*
Click to expand...


With your limited views and hate and unrealistic understanding of *all* Muslims, it's ridiculous to call me ignorant. I seem to have more diverse experience with Muslims...and we've certainly killed more Iraqi Muslims than 3000 and no Iraqis attacked us. So how does that make us better than them? We've probably killed 10 times that in Iraq and they didn't attack us and weren't even planning to (despite what some people were foolish enough to believe).


----------



## Beachboy

Ancient lion said:


> I didn't read a word but the title of this thread is stupid and disgusting.



Some facts are uncomfortable to accept.  The truth can be painful.  Come out of your idealistic fog, and join *PRACTICAL* America.  




​ 
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.  It is a duck!​


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *MY CONCLUSIONS;*
> 
> As a businessman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you see any "Muslims" in this thread, bimbo boy?
> 
> Where to you see anybody "angry", in this thread, bimbo boy?  Not counting yourself I mean.
> 
> How many of those purple pills did you take, bimbo-boy?
Click to expand...



Please keep up the name-calling it serves to prove my point that you are barbarians with nothing to say.  Foreign Muslims have no arguments to support their approval of 9-11 or the Boston Marathon Bombing. Haven't seen any fact links in this thread to support their actions have you?  You are so out-of-touch, you need to watch the television network news, the facts are burying Muslims in hatred.  Yep, Muslims did it to themselves.  All I am doing is calling you on it.    I think it is a good thing to put these Islam animals in their place.  Their place is in the shit-hole countries they come from.  It was a mistake to give foreign Muslims opportunity in the United States. Islam and America are incompatible. The Johnny Jihad's are going home to clean up the the mess they have made in the third world.  This is not America's problem!






*Stop blaming the United States for your screwed up Governments.*​


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> PUSSYboy admits to being a fucking troll.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that what he means by "businessman"?
> It does add up...
Click to expand...


*Asked and Answered. * More of the usual name-calling because you have no fact/links to back up a word you say.  Please read this thread and catch up, or leave.

Oh, and FYI, here is the financial profile of the Fortune 500 companys.  http://www.money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2011/performers/companies/biggest/  So called "businessmen" own and run the world.  You are just a spec on a minor marketing report.


----------



## Beachboy

9MMare said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9MMare said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL (Yes, I read your 'credentials' in some other post. Hard to believe when you imply that not allowing foreign Muslims in is an actual solution.)
> 
> First, no cars...no car accidents. Let's get rid of all the cars.
> 
> no pools, no more backyard drownings.
> 
> no horses or cows, no fertilizer for big dangerous cheap bombs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's a benefit to cars, pools, horses and cows.  whats' the benefit to allowing Muslims to immigrate to the U.S.?
> 
> 
> 
> why should we allow anyone to come here just because they are related to someone living here?
> 
> 
> 
> They already have visas.  That isn't being discussed here.
> 
> 
> 
> 9MMare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 'big bold red' is a shortsighted juvenile statement with no way to enforce that is basically anti-Constitutional and disrespectful of a large group of American citizens (Muslim or otherwise).
> 
> Or is that not what you are implying with that statement. I did see where it came from but it seemed to stand on its own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's easily enforceable and constitutional.  Who do you think you're fooling?  The fact that you're worrying that American Muslims would get their nose out of joint only shows we should have done it sooner rather than later.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We're going to prevent Americans from allowing their relatives and friends from visiting that they sponsor? Yeah, Muslim Americans...they have exactly the same rights as other Americans. On what grounds are you going to prevent their guests from entering the country? Are you going to stop the guests of other Americans from entering the country for no reason besides their religion?
> 
> And what value do Muslims bring to the US? Really? *(Yet still unsuported by facts.  Muslims have contributed nothing significant to our planet). *That is such an ignorant statement. I work with people from all over the world. Some are Muslims. They certainly do great work, and are great people. Most I know are no more publicly religious than most American Christians.
> 
> You seem to believe all Muslims worthless and haters. *(Absolutely correct.  Have you any fact/links to back you up?).*  You certainly seem to hate all Muslims, so I don't see you as any better.
Click to expand...


Your convoluted logic has no place here.  Americans know the truth.

Muslim is  not a religion.  It is a tribal band of murderers who believe that ONLY they have the answers to life.  They are *traitors* to America.  

Yet they want into the United States because of the affluent lifestyle Americans have built.  They contribute nothing.

Keep in mind immigration to the United States is up to us.  We adjust the number of people from a region of the world all the time.  

The pending Immigration Reform Act will make things tougher on Muslims than it is now.  Pulling green cards and deportation of Muslims will increase.


----------



## Beachboy

*MY CONCLUSIONS;*

As a businessman, any venture I am a part of is evaluated by me as to what is learned.  Frankly, as OP this thread, it has been a waste of time.  Muslims and their associates did not read posts, they only thought about the next propaganda they were going to post.  These are not bright nor stable people, and the foundation of their thinking is violent Islam bull shit.

One thing I have learned in 237 posts is that  Muslims have shown no remorse, sadness, conciliation, or apology for  innocent dead American citizens on 9-11 or the Boston Marathon Bombings.   *NOT ONE* extension of consideration for those murdered is shown  in this thread.  The conclusion I draw is that Islam and America are not  compatible.  Foreign Muslims are a threat to the American way of life.

As to my tactics of baiting and flaming, nothing gets people to tell the  truth better than to make them angry.  My posted words are not as  important as the *fact/links* I have  provided viewers to make their own decisions about foreign Muslims.   Muslim posters offer nothing but their own defensive opinions,  unsupported by facts.  They simply have nothing to offer.

I did not know much about Muslims when I began this thread 12 days ago, but now from their own words, I see them as *traitors* to the United States who gave them a chance.   They think their way is the only way.  Their minds are closed to any ideas except Islam.  They can not be reoriented and saved by America.  We made a mistake giving them a chance in democracy.  At least we tried, but now we know we were wrong to bring these barbarians here.    The Russians are correct in their dealings with Muslims - treat them  like cattle, (Muslims always think they deserve more), and keep Muslims  on a short leash.







*If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.  It's a duck!*​


----------



## ABikerSailor

BitchBoi is almost as much of a racist as some of the worst on here.

Yo.............BitchyBoi..................how many Muslims have you actually met and talked with?


----------



## mudwhistle

Truthmatters said:


> there are muslims buried at arlington.
> 
> 
> You spit on the graves of our heros



Funny how the weak-minded cannot grasp that Muslims are the ultimate conservative. 

Muslims hate Homosexuals, put them to death, and feel they have the right to beat you, even put you to death if they want. Their beliefs are based in the 18th century......and yet you support them no matter what. 

Idiot.


----------



## mudwhistle

ABikerSailor said:


> BitchBoi is almost as much of a racist as some of the worst on here.
> 
> Yo.............BitchyBoi..................how many Muslims have you actually met and talked with?



I've met enough to understand them. 

My guess is you've never been a guest in one of their countries.


----------



## Beachboy

ABikerSailor said:


> BitchBoi is almost as much of a racist as some of the worst on here.
> 
> Yo.............BitchyBoi..................how many Muslims have you actually met and talked with?



As few as possible.  If I want to know about Muslims, I can watch a television documentary on any network.  The message is always the same.  "Islam will dominate the world."  It is ok to murder innocent people in the name of Islam.  Actions speak louder than words, look at 9-11 and the Boston Marathon bombings.  

Liberal pundit Bill Maher doesn't trust them.  If you can't get the king of the liberals on your side, you are a bad guy!

​ 
How much more do I need to know about these rag heads who have no respect for our western culture.


----------



## Unkotare

Beachboy said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> BitchBoi is almost as much of a racist as some of the worst on here.
> 
> Yo.............BitchyBoi..................how many Muslims have you actually met and talked with?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As few as possible.  If I want to know about Muslims, I can watch a television documentary on any network.  .
Click to expand...



In other words, PUSSYboy needs his ignorance in order to justify his illogical bigotry even to himself. PUSSYboy clings to that ignorance like his little security blanket.


----------



## Beachboy

*THE VIDEO MUSLIMS DO NOT WANT YOU TO SEE.*

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gzyeo1Z1I4&list=PL70B1741B332421AB&index=1]The shocking video Muslims don't want you to see!! - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *MY CONCLUSIONS;*
> 
> As a businessman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you see any "Muslims" in this thread, bimbo boy?
> 
> Where to you see anybody "angry", in this thread, bimbo boy?  Not counting yourself I mean.
> 
> How many of those purple pills did you take, bimbo-boy?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Please keep up the name-calling it serves to prove my point that you are barbarians with nothing to say.  Foreign Muslims have no arguments to support their approval of 9-11 or the Boston Marathon Bombing. Haven't seen any fact links in this thread to support their actions have you?  You are so out-of-touch, you need to watch the television network news, the facts are burying Muslims in hatred.  Yep, Muslims did it to themselves.  All I am doing is calling you on it.    I think it is a good thing to put these Islam animals in their place.  Their place is in the shit-hole countries they come from.  It was a mistake to give foreign Muslims opportunity in the United States. Islam and America are incompatible. The Johnny Jihad's are going home to clean up the the mess they have made in the third world.  This is not America's problem!
Click to expand...



So..... more crickets?  That's it?

Where are the Muslims in this thread?  (BleachBoy; "duh?")

You've never met a Muslim in your life, have you?

Dumb shit.

Say, there's another racist on this board you might wanna hook up with.  I don't remember his name but he prances around in a Superman costume.  You'd make a good team.  Y'all could start a thread called "If we did not allow Africans into the United States we wouldn't have had all these problems over all these years either".


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you see any "Muslims" in this thread, bimbo boy?
> 
> Where to you see anybody "angry", in this thread, bimbo boy?  Not counting yourself I mean.
> 
> How many of those purple pills did you take, bimbo-boy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please keep up the name-calling it serves to prove my point that you are barbarians with nothing to say.  Foreign Muslims have no arguments to support their approval of 9-11 or the Boston Marathon Bombing. Haven't seen any fact links in this thread to support their actions have you?  You are so out-of-touch, you need to watch the television network news, the facts are burying Muslims in hatred.  Yep, Muslims did it to themselves.  All I am doing is calling you on it.    I think it is a good thing to put these Islam animals in their place.  Their place is in the shit-hole countries they come from.  It was a mistake to give foreign Muslims opportunity in the United States. Islam and America are incompatible. The Johnny Jihad's are going home to clean up the the mess they have made in the third world.  This is not America's problem!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So..... more crickets?  That's it?
> 
> Where are the Muslims in this thread?  (BleachBoy; "duh?")
> 
> You've never met a Muslim in your life, have you?
> 
> Dumb shit.
> 
> Say, there's another racist on this board you might wanna hook up with.  I don't remember his name but he prances around in a Superman costume.  You'd make a good team.  Y'all could start a thread called "If we did not allow Africans into the United States we wouldn't have had all these problems over all these years either".
Click to expand...


Still into name-calling as your only postings?

I did not say that I had never met a Muslim.  I said I believe a CBS documentary more than any other source of information about them.  I have no problems with African-Americans, they are not out to *murder* me.  I guess it is time for me to post the Muslim agenda.

*I notice you quickly jumped over that utube the Muslims do not want us to see.*  Your distractions do not work.  The American people are engaged on the problem of Muslims having witnessed the Boston Marathon Bombings.  Here is the video again.  Watch it Johnny Jihad!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gzyeo1Z1I4&list=PL70B1741B332421AB&index=1"]The shocking video Muslims don't want you to see!! - YouTube[/ame]​


----------



## ABikerSailor

mudwhistle said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> BitchBoi is almost as much of a racist as some of the worst on here.
> 
> Yo.............BitchyBoi..................how many Muslims have you actually met and talked with?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've met enough to understand them.
> 
> My guess is you've never been a guest in one of their countries.
Click to expand...


Dunno what you'd consider to be an acceptable country.


I've spent quite a few evenings in the homes of people in Dubai, U.A.E., and it covered from the very poor to some who were pretty well off.  Did that during Desert Storm pts. I and II.


In Jiddah, Saudi Arabia, I was hosted by a family who although they weren't exactly of Arabic descent, they did have enough experience from living there to tell me what to expect.

Does that qualify as being a guest in one of their countries?


----------



## Beachboy

Strange huh?  Ever since I placed this video that Muslims don't want you to see, the pro-Muslim types have shut up.
*
Do you wonder why?  It is because the vid shows Muslims teaching their children how to murder Americans and Jews.  

Guess the truth really can hurt!  And it is taken from MUSLIM television networks.*


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gzyeo1Z1I4&list=PL70B1741B332421AB&index=1"]The shocking video Muslims don't want you to see!! - YouTube
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





[/ame]


----------



## Kondor3

asaratis said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we did not allow immigrants into this country, there would be no Boston.
> 
> 
> Duh!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So Boston would cease to exist if we deported all the Muslims from foreign countries?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What a silly fuckin' thing to say.  This entire country is descended from immigrants...except for the native American Indians that were fucked out of their homeland by European immigrants.
Click to expand...


That's nice... and historically accurate, of course.

Trouble is, we've been full-up for years now... 330,000,000 and growing out of our britches...

We needed immigrants for a long time during our formative and stabilizing years.

Nowadays... not so much.

And that probably goes double for highly problematic and potentially dangerous groups.

Perhaps it's time to hang a 'No Vacancy' sign up for a couple of decades until we fix the things internally that need fixing...






That would certainly solve the Muslim (and other) Immigrant problem for a while, and give the country a breather...


----------



## Unkotare

Kondor3 said:


> Trouble is, we've been full-up for years now... ...




No, we are not. That's just stupid.


----------



## Beachboy

I have spent the last few days laughing at these posters with their PRO-ISLAM agendas.

I am a guy who usually posts on light fluffy topics.  After the Boston Marathon Bombing I started investigating America's attitude toward Muslims.  The response in the news media is that "Islam and America are not compatible.

I watched the posters in this and similar threads get disgusted with foreign Muslims killing American citizens.  The debate grew more intense as PRO-FOREIGN-MUSLIMS tried to distract the issue from their proven barbarian behavior.  Had in not involved the death of American citizens, I would have been laughing at their third world ignorance.

Then I got banned.  Guys like Pogo and Unkotare called in every favor they could to shut me up, and for the last week they succeeded.  I was nailed on a technicality.  Which tells us all about some of the Mods here.  Clearly, there is not free speech here, there are agendas. I will not give up posting fact based links about these rag-headed animals.

Please don't fall for any of the noise in this thread, including mine.  Judge the fact links yourself.  Do you think America should view foreign Muslims as a threat to American lifestyles?  Decide for yourself.  I will push this as long and as hard as I can starting with what "Lefty," Bill Maher has to say.  Muslim is not a religion, it is organized violence from ignorant third worlders against American principles. Eventually, I think you will realize these posters are traitors to the United States of America.

bill maher, muslims - Bing Videos







HBO: Real Time with Bill Maher: Homepage

http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Maher​


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> I have spent the last few days laughing at these posters with their PRO-ISLAM agendas.
> 
> I am a guy who usually posts on light fluffy topics.  After the Boston Marathon Bombing I started investigating America's attitude toward Muslims.  The response in the news media is that "Islam and America are not compatible.
> 
> I watched the posters in this and similar threads get disgusted with foreign Muslims killing American citizens.  The debate grew more intense as PRO-FOREIGN-MUSLIMS tried to distract the issue from their proven barbarian behavior.  Had in not involved the death of American citizens, I would have been laughing at their third world ignorance.
> 
> Then I got banned.  Guys like Pogo and Unkotare called in every favor they could to shut me up, and for the last week they succeeded.  I was nailed on a technicality.  Which tells us all about some of the Mods here.  Clearly, there is not free speech here, there are agendas. I will not give up posting fact based links about these rag-headed animals.



Yeah right.  Pogo and Unkotare ever working together on _anything _

No shit-fer-brains, nobody needed to "call in" jack squat, nor do such "favours" exist.  What you cannot bring yourself to admit is that _you banned yourself_ with your insane trolling and relentless attacks on the entire posting community here.  The only surprising part was that it didn't happen sooner.  I'm surprised they let you back in at all.  I wouldn't have.

Actually I was disappointed I didn't get to respond to your pathetic whine about how you were going to "file a grievance with the FCC under the Fairness Doctrine" and how the FCC "has the power to make certain websites go away under the First Amendment".  Yes, I saw that sorry drivel before it got hit by the phaser gun it deserved.  Count yourself lucky the site got to it before I did.



Beachboy said:


> Please don't fall for any of the noise in this thread, including mine.



Not to worry.  No one's fallen for your infantile *great big letters* troll-crapola yet.  When you see posters as diverse as Unk and myself standing on the same side against you, that's when you know your bullshit is as transparent as it gets.


----------



## Kondor3

Unkotare said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trouble is, we've been full-up for years now... ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, we are not. That's just stupid.
Click to expand...


Yes, we are.

We cannot even take care of our own people properly.

We don't need the burden of still more, when we're so badly overstretched.

I am loyal to my own people rather than outsiders.

And common sense tells me that my own people would be better off if we just closed the doors for a while and spent some time recovering and fixing our own problems.

All of which strikes me as a little less stupid than burying our heads in the sand and continuing as-is without taking a long, hard look at what we're doing, in an immigration context.


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have spent the last few days laughing at these posters with their PRO-ISLAM agendas.
> 
> I am a guy who usually posts on light fluffy topics.  After the Boston Marathon Bombing I started investigating America's attitude toward Muslims.  The response in the news media is that "Islam and America are not compatible.
> 
> I watched the posters in this and similar threads get disgusted with foreign Muslims killing American citizens.  The debate grew more intense as PRO-FOREIGN-MUSLIMS tried to distract the issue from their proven barbarian behavior.  Had in not involved the death of American citizens, I would have been laughing at their third world ignorance.
> 
> Then I got banned.  Guys like Pogo and Unkotare called in every favor they could to shut me up, and for the last week they succeeded.  I was nailed on a technicality.  Which tells us all about some of the Mods here.  Clearly, there is not free speech here, there are agendas. I will not give up posting fact based links about these rag-headed animals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah right.  Pogo and Unkotare ever working together on _anything _
> 
> No shit-fer-brains, nobody needed to "call in" jack squat, nor do such "favours" exist.  What you cannot bring yourself to admit is that _you banned yourself_ with your insane trolling and relentless attacks on the entire posting community here.  The only surprising part was that it didn't happen sooner.  I'm surprised they let you back in at all.  I wouldn't have.
> 
> Actually I was disappointed I didn't get to respond to your pathetic whine about how you were going to "file a grievance with the FCC under the Fairness Doctrine" and how the FCC "has the power to make certain websites go away under the First Amendment".  Yes, I saw that sorry drivel before it got hit by the phaser gun it deserved.  Count yourself lucky the site got to it before I did.
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please don't fall for any of the noise in this thread, including mine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not to worry.  No one's fallen for your infantile *great big letters* troll-crapola yet.  When you see posters as diverse as Unk and myself standing on the same side against you, that's when you know your bullshit is as transparent as it gets.
Click to expand...


This post is classic for you, just overstated name calling. All this effort to discredit me, yet not a single fact or link to support a thing you say.

Thank you for this post, you prove my point!


----------



## Pogo

Uhhh... the "facts or links" are already here.  They consist of every post you've made.  Including that one.


----------



## ABikerSailor

I'm still wondering when BitchBoi is going to come up with anything solid (other than the dildo up his ass).

Keep trying BitchBoi.................maybe you'll come up with a fact or two, but you've gotta leave the GOP swamps you seem to be stuck in.


----------



## Unkotare

Kondor3 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trouble is, we've been full-up for years now... ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, we are not. That's just stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, we are.
> 
> We cannot even take care of our own people properly.
> 
> We don't need the burden of still more, when we're so badly overstretched...
Click to expand...



Not even close. We could have a total population of just one million people, and the corruption, incompetence, and base personal ambition of many of those in a position to exercise it would still exist and still fuck things up. We are nowhere near "full-up," and ceasing to be America just because some short-sighted dopes are desperate for simple 'solutions,' is no way to solve the problems that face America.


----------



## Wildman

Truthmatters said:


> there are muslims buried at arlington.
> 
> 
> You spit on the graves of our heros



exactly what made these alleged buried  muslimes heros ?

i have not been toArlington N.C. in over 50 years, therefore* i want proof *there is any muslime buried there !!


----------



## Kondor3

Unkotare said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, we are not. That's just stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, we are.
> 
> We cannot even take care of our own people properly.
> 
> We don't need the burden of still more, when we're so badly overstretched...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not even close. We could have a total population of just one million people, and the corruption, incompetence, and base personal ambition of many of those in a position to exercise it would still exist and still fuck things up. We are nowhere near "full-up," and ceasing to be America just because some short-sighted dopes are desperate for simple 'solutions,' is no way to solve the problems that face America.
Click to expand...


Not even close?

When half the political blogosphere is choked with the back-and-forth of the argument that we are becoming a Welfare State and that such a state of affairs is unsustainable for much longer?

Disagree.

It would, indeed, be disingenuous to blame immigrants for most of our own internal problems.

But we do not need to create additional problems nor to scale-up the ones we have by adding to the load on the system.

And whoever and whatever made you think that by putting a freeze on immigration for a decade or two that we 'cease to be America'?

That's just silly.

We are, indeed, a nation *descended* from immigrants and we have a lovely history and tradition of welcoming them.

But that does not mean that we must *continue* accepting newcomers in the volumes nor at the pace to which we have become accustomed.

The world is fast becoming a planet choked with overcrowding and poverty on a scale and on an order of magnitude far exceeding anything that our parents or grand parents or great-grandparents and beyond ever knew or imagined and we cannot continue to be the Receiving Dock for the Overflow forever, never mind new cultural and religious clashes that now pose dangers for us which were never anticipated in times past.

We completed our push to the Pacific in the latter decades of the 19th Century and there are no more plains and prairies to settle nor transcontinental railroads to build by hand nor canals to be dug by hand nor new cities to build by hand nor cotton to pick by hand nor new farmland to clear by hand nor any of that activity which triggered the need for large-scale immigration in the first place.

A company's HR Department will not hire new workers during periods when they are already operating at full capacity and have no further need of new help, just because the company has a tradition of welcoming new employees.

So, too, a country does not encourage nor facilitate new immigration on a large scale, beyond a very modest and closely-vetted relative handful, during periods when there is no pressing need to do so.

We no longer have any pressing need to do so.

Times change. Intelligent people (and nations) adapt to changing times.

And it can no longer be intelligently argued that we require further immigration on the same scale and at the same pace as we did in former times.

Being the Receiving Dock for the Overflow is not in our best interests over the long-haul and it is not so much a matter of arguing about whether to close the door for a while as it is a matter of arguing about when to close the door.

You seem to be one who will continue to argue that there is no need to close the door under any circumstances, if I'm reading you (extrapolating from your posts) correctly.

I am one who not only sees the logic and common sense behind a willingness to close the door for a while, but who perceives that we are already there - that it is already time to do so for a decade or two, in order to let us catch our collective breath.

I suspect that we can argue this one until we're blue in the face and not find a middle ground, but I could be wrong. It certainly seems unlikely to happen anytime soon.

But it's a healthy thing to get the entire range of options on the table and to examine them.


----------



## Wildman

*



			The older bomber claimed to have made no American friends during the ten years he had been here.
		
Click to expand...

*
"made no American friends".., yet there are photos of him partying like a Hollyweed homo celebrity, yet the liberfools will deny that part of his life living on tax paying citizens dollar$.


----------



## Unkotare

Kondor3 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, we are.
> 
> We cannot even take care of our own people properly.
> 
> We don't need the burden of still more, when we're so badly overstretched...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not even close. We could have a total population of just one million people, and the corruption, incompetence, and base personal ambition of many of those in a position to exercise it would still exist and still fuck things up. We are nowhere near "full-up," and ceasing to be America just because some short-sighted dopes are desperate for simple 'solutions,' is no way to solve the problems that face America.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even close?.
Click to expand...



NOT EVEN CLOSE.


Population Density per Square Mile of Countries | Infoplease.com


----------



## Unkotare

Kondor3 said:


> Not even close?
> 
> When half the political blogosphere is choked with the back-and-forth of the argument that we are becoming a Welfare State and that such a state of affairs is unsustainable for much longer?.






Do you really take "the political blogosphere" as proof of anything? I guess you think Wikipedia is a legitimate source for research too, huh?


----------



## Unkotare

Kondor3 said:


> It would, indeed, be disingenuous to blame immigrants for most of our own internal problems.
> 
> But we do not need to create additional problems nor to scale-up the ones we have by adding to the load on the system...







Legal immigration does not represent "additional problems," it represents additional strength.


----------



## Unkotare

Kondor3 said:


> And whoever and whatever made you think that by putting a freeze on immigration for a decade or two that we 'cease to be America'?.






I know it because I, unlike you apparently, understand what America is. I, unlike you apparently, appreciate and value what America is.


----------



## Unkotare

Kondor3 said:


> We are, indeed, a nation *descended* from immigrants and we have a lovely history and tradition of welcoming them.
> 
> But that does not mean that we must *continue* accepting newcomers in the volumes nor at the pace to which we have become accustomed...





Immigration is not just some distant historical event in our nation's history; it is a vital part of what this country is and has always been. You seem to have let your fear of the very real problem of ILLEGAL immigration blind you to what America is.


----------



## Unkotare

Kondor3 said:


> We completed our push to the Pacific in the latter decades of the 19th Century and there are no more plains and prairies to settle nor transcontinental railroads to build by hand nor canals to be dug by hand nor new cities to build by hand nor cotton to pick by hand nor new farmland to clear by hand nor any of that activity which triggered the need for large-scale immigration in the first place...





Now you seem to be shifting the focus, but the reality of it still argues against your fearful and foolhardy fantasy.


----------



## Unkotare

Kondor3 said:


> I suspect that we can argue this one until we're blue in the face and not find a middle ground, but I could be wrong. It certainly seems unlikely to happen anytime soon...





Your misguided and Un-American fantasy of "closing the door for a few decades" will NEVER happen, so learn to understand and accept America or expect to be increasingly frustrated.


----------



## Kondor3

Unk... you responding with automatic gainsay is not particularly productive.

Oh, and, I would not be so quick to claim that your love-of-country or patriotism or understanding of what America is or is not, is any better or worse than any of your countrymen's understanding, because it's not.

I've done my part for King and Country, so to speak, and I'm confident that a stance which advocates a closing of the Immigration Door for some years not only does no harm, but buys breathing space in which to recover and to regain strength.

You and I disagree on this.

But I feel no need to challenge your love of country nor understanding nor patriotism nor to indulge in _Insults Light_ with you, just because you disagree with me.

I will, however, try to remember not to go any particular distance out of my way simply to be respectful towards you after this.

Just as well, perhaps.

After all... when you cannot argue from the vantage point of logic and common sense, there's always denigration and insult and ad hominem attack and straw-man extrapolation and the like.

OK by me... doesn't really matter all that much in the long run, anyhoo...


----------



## Beachboy

There are three things that anyone who knows me will tell you.

1).  I am a distributor of of information.  When I learn something new, I pass it around.  *No Soliciting.*

2).  I am intolerant of people who talk without backing up their words with facts before they speak.  At work you had best not talk over me unless you are absolutely correct.  I fire the ignorant, no second chances. Accuracy counts and time is money.

3).  I get a kick out of making stupid people look more stupid.  Stupid people should be held up to public ridicule.  Said another way, "God gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason." STFU.

That said, I would like to make it perfectly clear that the ideas I express in this forum on Muslims is pretty mainstream.  I think it is time to begin expressing some of the stronger opinions I am finding on the internet.  Make no mistake about it, Muslims are a threat to the American way of life.


----------



## hazlnut

Beachboy said:


> *
> *......there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  Duh!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​ This is not rocket science.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .




And if we didn't allow Pollocks in, this thread wouldn't exist?


----------



## Beachboy

hazlnut said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *
> If we did not allow Muslim foreigners into the United States.................there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  Duh!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​ This is not rocket science.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And if we didn't allow Pollocks in, this thread wouldn't exist?
Click to expand...


Why am I not surprised that you totally miss the point of this thread?






 Unless you are trying to derail this thread for your  PRO-Muslim agenda.  

America knows the truth, *Islam and America are  incompatible.*  Deportation is the answer.​


----------



## beagle9

asaratis said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *......there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  Duh!
> 
> 
> This is not rocket science.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we did not allow immigrants into this country, there would be no Boston.
> 
> 
> Duh!
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with allowing immigrants into the county, just as long as it
is the kind of immigrants that don't hate America, and are not so gullible, and don't want to kill Americans once they establish themselves here..   Then If they see they don't like this place, then it's easy (just go back to where they came from is all they have to do), and if one thinks that they are in a place that will never be what they want it to be (i.e. against their religious beliefs and etc.), then it's easy (just go back to where they came from is all they have to do), how simple can it be ? But no they want to come here it seems, and next get with those who are already here in secret, and they want to undermine this nation for those whom hate from within, but yet acting all the while as if they don't hate, so those whom hate from within, well they get these radical immigrants coming here to do all the dirty work for them I guess or are these foreigners operating alone when here ?


----------



## Aristotle

I am sick of you bigots....There are Muslims who have died defending this ungrateful country.


Edit: Am I pro Muslim? Yes. I am pro any human that wishes to advance this country to further greatness. I am so sick of xenophobes blaming terrorist acts on all Muslims.


----------



## Beachboy

Aristotle said:


> I am sick of you bigots....There are Muslims who have died defending this ungrateful country.
> 
> 
> Edit: Am I pro Muslim? Yes. I am pro any human that wishes to advance this country to further greatness. I am so sick of xenophobes blaming terrorist acts on all Muslims.



So, all of us are bigots because we want Muslims to stop blowing up our cities and killing our citizens?  

The facts speak for themselves, and the American people know that Islam and America are incompatible.

The word you should be looking for is not to call me a "racist," but to think of yourself as possibly a "traitor."  There is no defending Muslim barbarians.

 First it was New York.​ 




​ 
Then it was Boston.





​




But, next it will not be a U. S. City.   It will be Tehran, Iran.







 Muslims will learn, when America says "Jump," their response will be "How high!"​


----------



## Beachboy

​
If you watch American television news you get the same message over and over

*Militant Muslims did this...
Militant Muslims did that...
Militant Muslims did this...
Militant Muslims did that...
Militant Muslims did this...
Militant Muslims did that...
Militant Muslims did this...
Militant Muslims did that...
Militant Muslims did this...
​*

After a very short time you get the message.  Islam and America are not compatible.  







It really is a no brainer.Let the deportation begin.
It really is a no brainer.Let the deportation begin.​


----------



## Aristotle

Beachboy said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am sick of you bigots....There are Muslims who have died defending this ungrateful country.
> 
> 
> Edit: Am I pro Muslim? Yes. I am pro any human that wishes to advance this country to further greatness. I am so sick of xenophobes blaming terrorist acts on all Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, all of us are bigots because we want Muslims to stop blowing up our cities and killing our citizens?
> 
> The facts speak for themselves, and the American people know that Islam and America are incompatible.
> 
> The word you should be looking for is not to call me a "racist," but to think of yourself as possibly a "traitor."  There is no defending Muslim barbarians.
> 
> First it was New York.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> Then it was Boston.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, next it will not be a U. S. City.   It will be Tehran, Iran.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims will learn, when America says "Jump," their response will be "How high!"​
Click to expand...


Your such an idiot. Actually to be Muslim is not an ethnic identity so calling you a bigot and xenophobic douche is much more appropriate. Second, there are what, 8-10 million Muslims most living in Michigan. Why don't we hear about terrorist acts in dearborn Michigan?


The problem aren't the Muslims. The problem are the zealots who for political and religious reasons hate this country and believe to demonstrate change for their cause, they blow buildings up. Oh but I am sure you would feel more comfortable blaming all Muslims I am sure being logical would not be convinient for you.


I have Muslim friends who like me, love this country and hate evil. The few so called Muslims dont represent the majority.

Actually to correct myself there are approximately 10 million Muslims in the United states. Majority of them live in Michigan, and dearborn is a very Muslim populated city, so I'd like to ask why Michigan is not being targeted since Muslims are so violent?


----------



## Pogo

Aristotle said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am sick of you bigots....There are Muslims who have died defending this ungrateful country.
> 
> 
> Edit: Am I pro Muslim? Yes. I am pro any human that wishes to advance this country to further greatness. I am so sick of xenophobes blaming terrorist acts on all Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, all of us are bigots because we want Muslims to stop blowing up our cities and killing our citizens?
> 
> The facts speak for themselves, and the American people know that Islam and America are incompatible.
> 
> The word you should be looking for is not to call me a "racist," but to think of yourself as possibly a "traitor."  There is no defending Muslim barbarians.
> 
> First it was New York.​
> ​
> Then it was Boston.
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> But, next it will not be a U. S. City.   It will be Tehran, Iran.
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims will learn, when America says "Jump," their response will be "How high!"​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Your such an idiot. Actually to be Muslim is not an ethnic identity so calling you a bigot and xenophobic douche is much more appropriate. Second, there are what, 8-10 million Muslims most living in Michigan. Why don't we hear about terrorist acts in dearborn Michigan?
> 
> 
> The problem aren't the Muslims. The problem are the zealots who for political and religious reasons hate this country and believe to demonstrate change for their cause, they blow buildings up. Oh but I am sure you would feel more comfortable blaming all Muslims I am sure being logical would not be convinient for you.
> 
> 
> I have Muslim friends who like me, love this country and hate evil. The few so called Muslims dont represent the majority.
Click to expand...




Trying to explain common sense to Belchboy is like trying to explain quantum physics to Pee Wee Herman.  Don't even waste your breath.


----------



## Unkotare

Kondor3 said:


> Oh, and, I would not be so quick to claim that your love-of-country or patriotism or understanding of what America is or is not, is any better or worse than any of your countrymen's understanding, because it's not.






It clearly is more clear than your understanding, judging from your own words. The words you use to represent yourself here are all I have to go on, and I have thus concluded accordingly.


----------



## Unkotare

Kondor3 said:


> I've done my part for King and Country, so to speak, and I'm confident that a stance which advocates a closing of the Immigration Door for some years not only does no harm, but buys breathing space in which to recover and to regain strength.
> 
> 
> 
> After all... when you cannot argue from the vantage point of logic and common sense...





YOU are not arguing from a "vantage point of logic and common sense." Quite the contrary. Look at the illogical conclusion you try to draw above. As for common sense, fantasizing about stopping all immigration to the US for years and years is the furthest thing from a display of common sense. You are reacting emotionally, and in a manner that suggests you do not understand America.

Why not channel all the energy generated by your obvious fear into something productive, like working toward holding our elected representatives accountable for not doing more to combat ILLEGAL immigration?


----------



## Connery

*Thread reopened kindly stay on topic and post in compliance with http://www.usmessageboard.com/annou...48-usmb-rules-and-guidelines.html#post6790048*


----------



## beagle9

Unkotare said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've done my part for King and Country, so to speak, and I'm confident that a stance which advocates a closing of the Immigration Door for some years not only does no harm, but buys breathing space in which to recover and to regain strength.
> 
> 
> 
> After all... when you cannot argue from the vantage point of logic and common sense...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YOU are not arguing from a "vantage point of logic and common sense." Quite the contrary. Look at the illogical conclusion you try to draw above. As for common sense, fantasizing about stopping all immigration to the US for years and years is the furthest thing from a display of common sense. You are reacting emotionally, and in a manner that suggests you do not understand America.
> 
> Why not channel all the energy generated by your obvious fear into something productive, like working toward holding our elected representatives accountable for not doing more to combat ILLEGAL immigration?
Click to expand...

This could be still a hands tied situation for the Americans, otherwise when trying to hold those accountable for illegal immigration, because it all depends on who you are trying to hold accountable, and why it is that they do what they do, and for what reasons they do them for(?) as to whether one is successful or not in such a thing.. If they do this for votes, it's a tough call to stop them, if they do it for corporations it's another tough call to stop them. We the people could be royally duped just as it seems we are in the current and in the latter.


----------



## Kondor3

Unkotare said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> _I've done my part for King and Country, so to speak, and I'm confident that a stance which advocates a closing of the Immigration Door for some years not only does no harm, but buys breathing space in which to recover and to regain strength. After all... when you cannot argue from the vantage point of logic and common sense..._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------
> 
> _YOU are not arguing from a "vantage point of logic and common sense." Quite the contrary. Look at the illogical conclusion you try to draw above. As for common sense, fantasizing about stopping all immigration to the US for years and years is the furthest thing from a display of common sense. You are reacting emotionally, and in a manner that suggests you do not understand America.
> 
> Why not channel all the energy generated by your obvious fear into something productive, like working toward holding our elected representatives accountable for not doing more to combat ILLEGAL immigration?_
Click to expand...


I have, indeed, been arguing from logic and common sense for the past day or so...

The salient points are...

1. we are full-up... 330,000,000 and bursting at the seams

2. our days of transcontinental and industrial expansion are over and fresh hordes of immigrants are not needed

3. we cannot even provide enough jobs for our own people; they don't need even more low-ball bidding from impoverished and desperate newcomers to further erode their chances

4. our medical system, educational system and welfare system are already badly overstrained and we don't need fresh waves of newcomers to strain them even further

...and I've even gone so far as to draw a useful analogy, earlier, about HR Depts not hiring when their companies are already operating at full capacity and have no openings

All I get out of you in return is lightweight fluff about how I don't understand America and what it is and how I'm arguing from emotion and fear and other baseless accusations on your part.

No sale.

And I've grown rather weary of your automatic gainsay... Yes it is... No it's not... Yes it is... No it's not...etc... etc... etc...

If I were to engage in the sort of Unfounded Speculation, directed towards you, that you already directed towards me recently, I would most probably conclude that...

1. you have a personal (self or family) stake in ensuring that we keep our doors wide-open

...or...

2. you are a misguided and impractical idealist in this context

...or...

3. you are an Internationalist - a No Borders type of political creature

...or...

4. you are an ostrich-like head-in-the-sand type who cannot face unpleasant truths about the strain that waves of newcomers place upon our fragile state

...but, as I said, that would be Unfounded Speculation on my part, so, I will return the favor that you've shown me, in part, just to project an adequate defense, but without actually committing to such bald, rash and juvenile accusations in the absence of solid evidence to the contrary, simply because you see things differently than I do.

I could not even get you to the discussion table without you kicking and screaming about how unfair and wrong and foolhardy and un-American such positions (_suspending further large-scale immigration for a decade or more until we've caught our breath again_) were.

And, frankly, in light of your juvenile behavioral manifestations over the course of the past couple of pages, I've lost all interest in attempting anything further along those lines.

Rightly or wrongly, you strike me as a Dogmatic in this context.

For that and other reasons... I'm done with this particular exchange.

Thank you for your time.


----------



## Pogo

> 1. we are full-up... 330,000,000 and bursting at the seams



Can someone post the sign at the border that says "Lawful occupancy shall not exceed 330,000,000 persons"?

Who's to say what's "full-up"? "Bursting at the seams"?  
You might make that case standing in the middle of Manhattan.  Try taking a drive through west Texas.

You've presented a subjective analysis, nothing more.  There is no quantifiable "limit". 
But for a comparison:



​Hmm... with the exception of Russia and the Arctic, the entirety of Europe seems to have missed their quota limitation flying by. 



> 2. our days of transcontinental and industrial expansion are over and fresh hordes of immigrants are not needed



So said some 25, 50, 75, 100, 125 and 150 years ago.  What makes you right and them wrong?
Again, subjective speculation.  Transcontinental expansion is not the only benefit of fresh blood and fresh ideas.



> 3. we cannot even provide enough jobs for our own people; they don't need even more low-ball bidding from impoverished and desperate newcomers to further erode their chances



An absolute statement that again, ignores the fact that immigrants provide both an immediate consumer base and an eventual employer base.  Your analogy is basically that of adding water to a full pitcher.  It's not that simple.  It requires looking at the new ingredient as nothing more than a load (a parasite).  It leaves out the dynamics of what these people contribute.



> 4. our medical system, educational system and welfare system are already badly overstrained and we don't need fresh waves of newcomers to strain them even further



Again, subjective judgement.  And incidentally on that medical system... check out how much of it is staffed by immigrants, e.g. from India.

Ironic that you'll protest (legitimately) against the "gainsaying" argument while yourself offering nothing more substantial than "we don't need..." and "we have enough".  No sale.


_(I realize the topic is religious bigotry so this is all an off topic tangent.  I'm not very well versed at the bigot thing, sorry.)_


----------



## S.J.

We should only let people in who want to be Americans, and whose loyalty will lie with America, not the shitholes from where they came.


----------



## Kondor3

Pogo said:


> "...Who's to say what's 'full-up'?..."


The citizens of this country... you and I... and we've each just had our say... as the national conversation on the subject continues. 



> "...'_Bursting at the seams?'. You might make that case standing in the middle of Manhattan. Try taking a drive through west Texas_..."



You *DO* understand that I was speaking metaphorically, correct? - with respect to our Economy and Job Market and Social Safety Net and the like, yes?

I was not referring to how many sardines we could still cram into the tin coast-to-coast before we're all as crowded-together and miserable as the most crowded urban areas.



> "..._You've presented a subjective analysis, nothing more. There is no quantifiable 'limit'_..."



Well OF *COURSE* it's subjective... it's a gauge of how many sardines we're willing to cram into the tin and how overtaxed and impoverished and idle we're willing to become - all in the name of continuing to play Global Welcome Wagon.

Subjective? Absolutely. Guilty as charged. Nolo contendere. No contest.

Oh, and, with respect to 'quantifiable limit', I would say that when Americans cannot find work in traditionally higher-paid trades and industries because desperate newcomers are willing to low-ball them on a sufficiently broad scale so as to erode the standard of living for workers in those industries and trades and professions, then, we have something quantifiable to latch onto.

And, with respect to threshholds... when (practically speaking) all of your countrymen who want a job, have one, and when there are still jobs going un-filled... then... and ONLY then... are you within a phase or time-period in which Immigration actually HELPS the nation and your fellow countrymen. Otherwise, not so much.



> "..._But for a comparison_..."



As I said before, this is not about how many sardines we can cram into the tin before we're physically full-up... it's about how many we can or should be dealing with, without inflicting damage upon ourselves or needlessly putting additional strain upon infrastructure and resources.



> "..._Hmm... with the exception of Russia and the Arctic, the entirety of Europe seems to have missed their quota limitation flying by_..."



I don't know what that means. Sorry. 



> 2. our days of transcontinental and industrial expansion are over and fresh hordes of immigrants are not needed
> 
> 
> 
> So said some 25, 50, 75, 100, 125 and 150 years ago. What makes you right and them wrong?
Click to expand...


I don't know whether they were wrong - in their time - so that's a little difficult for me to attempt to answer. But logic and common sense tell me that a population of 50 millions or 75 millions or 100 millions in a continent adrift in cheap land and cheap resources is just a wee bit different than a continent in which no further expansion or large-scale settlement is necessary nor likely nor even possible and in which a rapidly-growing population of 330,000,000+ and continual drift towards a Welfare State is putting a very great strain on the nation.



> "..._Again, subjective speculation.  Transcontinental expansion is not the only benefit of fresh blood and fresh ideas_..."



Agreed.

I've dealt with 'subjectivity' already, above, sufficient to our purposes here.

We are now dealing with Bang-for-the-Buck... and it is the perception of many... yours-truly included... that we do not get enough in return for continuing to accommodate large-scale immigration... the cost is too high and there is no earthly reason to turn ourselves into a badly crowded sardine can just so some of us can Feel Good about how we handle this.



> "..._An absolute statement that again, ignores the fact that immigrants provide both an immediate consumer base and an eventual employer base. Your analogy is basically that of adding water to a full pitcher. It's not that simple. It requires looking at the new ingredient as nothing more than a load (a parasite).  It leaves out the dynamics of what these people contribute_..."



Don't go simple on me. Nobody is saying that Immigrants cannot (or do not) contribute to the society in which they inject themselves.

It's just that with respect to large waves of them, the equation is lopsided and that in the short-to-medium term they do far more damage than good - rather like a plague of locusts that hose the job-market and put terrible strain on infrastructure and services and resources.

Payback is usually many years or decades beyond arrival time - and we can't afford to play that game on a large scale any longer. The sooner we recognize that, the less crowded the sardine can is going to be.

Those days are behind us now, and the sooner we get our heads out of the sand (or worse) in that context, the healthier our prospects for continued success and survival.



> "..._incidentally on that medical system... check out how much of it is staffed by immigrants, e.g. from India_..."



That's great. Any extremely highly-skilled highly educated medical professional from India who wants in, can come. Better? ;-)



> "..._Ironic that you'll protest (legitimately) against the 'gainsaying' argument while yourself offering nothing more substantial than 'we don't need...' and 'we have enough'.  No sale..._"



The difference being that I 'fess-up to subjectivity in this context; largely because the topic beggars precision, yet its impact and effects can be seen and felt throughout the nation and measured well enough, albeit imperfectly.

I'm sure that we can both find studies and surveys and figures ( a,k.a. "Fun Ways to Bull$hit with Numbers" ) to support our position and the impact upon the nation.

But that's an argument for another day, on the Immigration sub-board I expect, and I look forward to seeing you over there, for a more satisfying knock-down-drag-out rumble on the subject - although I'll confess to enjoying this one a bit while it lasted.



> "..._(I realize the topic is religious bigotry so this is all an off topic tangent.  I'm not very well versed at the bigot thing, sorry.)_



Well, look at it this way... if we ever DID act on common sense and simply close our doors for a decade or two, and if the banning were universal, that would certainly fix this particular little sideshow concern about letting in potentially dangerous Mulim-type persons, wouldn't it? ;-) < _that's just a smart-assed joke, by the way _>


----------



## Pogo

Can't help noticing that you've played down the whole absolute numbers game in the first, second and fourth comments, yet go right back to it in the third.  Either there is a quantifiable limit, or there is not.  Pick a side and stay on it.

As regards that comment #3: "desperate newcomers are willing to low-ball them on a sufficiently broad scale so as to erode the standard of living for workers in those industries and trades and professions, then, we have something quantifiable to latch onto." -- does not quantify anything; it presents an undocumented fantasy scenario.  You've suggested that "desperate newcomers" are "lowballing".  In effect you've constructed a strawman which you then point to as "proof".  That only works if we accept the strawman.



> Don't go simple on me. Nobody is saying that Immigrants cannot (or do not) contribute to the society in which they inject themselves.



--- seems like you just did: 
"we cannot even provide enough jobs for our own people; they don't need even more low-ball bidding from impoverished and desperate newcomers"

-- as if the number of available jobs is some finite number that never changes, is unaffected by immigration or other dynamics, and that any additional population is nothing but a drag on that fixed number -- indeed you've just described them as a "plague of locusts", so my reference to "parasites" was not off your position at all.  I wasn't sure it was fair but you've now actually confirmed it.  That speaks volumes about your own bias, and how it affects the fantasy scenarios you put up as your strawmen.

Incidentally, what do you think your grocery shelf will look like once you've driven this "plague of locusts" off the farms? 



> That's great. Any extremely highly-skilled highly educated medical professional from India who wants in, can come. Better? ;-)



Yes.  That's just an illustration that puts the lie to your "plague of locusts" dragging down the system.  Except that these doctors (I happen to work with a lot of them) got their educations _here_.  



> The difference being that I 'fess-up to subjectivity in this context; largely because the topic beggars precision, yet its impact and effects can be seen and felt throughout the nation and measured well enough, albeit imperfectly.



Distinction without difference.  They're both fallacies.



> Well, look at it this way... if we ever DID act on common sense and simply close our doors for a decade or two, and if the banning were universal, that would certainly fix this particular little sideshow concern about letting in potentially dangerous Mulim-type persons, wouldn't it? ;-)



Joke noted, and obviously my reference is a sarcastic dig at the mindless mentality that originated this thread, whose illogic I refuse to award any credence to whatsoever.  Basically just a disclaimer to address the warning about staying on topic -- which if we did that, we'd have no legitimate topic here at all.

IOW the tangent is the only legitimate topic I see here; we can and should dismiss the premise of the OP as the bleatings of unhinged hysteria.


----------



## Beachboy

Aristotle said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am sick of you bigots....There are Muslims who have died defending this ungrateful country.
> 
> 
> Edit: Am I pro Muslim? Yes. I am pro any human that wishes to advance this country to further greatness. I am so sick of xenophobes blaming terrorist acts on all Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, all of us are bigots because we want Muslims to stop blowing up our cities and killing our citizens?
> 
> The facts speak for themselves, and the American people know that Islam and America are incompatible.
> 
> The word you should be looking for is not to call me a "racist," but to think of yourself as possibly a "traitor."  There is no defending Muslim barbarians.
> 
> First it was New York.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> Then it was Boston.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, next it will not be a U. S. City.   It will be Tehran, Iran.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims will learn, when America says "Jump," their response will be "How high!"​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Your such an idiot. Actually to be Muslim......you a bigot and xenophobic douche......zealots who for political and religious reasons hate this country .....feel more comfortable blaming all Muslims .....hate evil...*
Click to expand...


Yeah, yeah, yeah, the usual name calling.  And some how I must be a fool for remembering that on 9-11 and the Boston Marathon bombing 2,980 innocent people were murdered by foreign Muslims.  

There is nothing you can say to defend those acts.  As usual there is not a fact/link in sight to support a word you post.  Why do you waste everyone's time?


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, all of us are bigots because we want Muslims to stop blowing up our cities and killing our citizens?
> 
> The facts speak for themselves, and the American people know that Islam and America are incompatible.
> 
> The word you should be looking for is not to call me a "racist," but to think of yourself as possibly a "traitor."  There is no defending Muslim barbarians.
> 
> First it was New York.​
> ​
> Then it was Boston.
> 
> ​
> But, next it will not be a U. S. City.   It will be Tehran, Iran.
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims will learn, when America says "Jump," their response will be "How high!"​
> 
> 
> 
> /
> 
> Your such an idiot. Actually to be Muslim......you a bigot and xenophobic douche......zealots who for political and religious reasons hate this country .....feel more comfortable blaming all Muslims .....hate evil...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, yeah, yeah, the usual name calling.  And some how I must be a fool for remembering that on 9-11 and the Boston Marathon bombing 2,980 innocent people were murdered by foreign Muslims.  There is nothing you can say to defend those acts.  As usual there is not a fact/link in sight to support a word you post.
Click to expand...


No, you're a fool for selectively not remembering stuff like Oklahoma City and Atlanta and Birmingham, and for concluding that despite those, 9/11 and Boston have their origins in religion rather than in radical political terrorism and a random act of a culture of violence respectively.

If your thought had any consistency you'd have to conclude that the three first named events were the product of Christianism.  And in that you'd still be a fool.  But at least you'd be consistent.

Fat chance of that.


----------



## Kondor3

Pogo said:


> Can't help noticing that you've played down the whole absolute numbers game in the first, second and fourth comments, yet go right back to it in the third.  Either there is a quantifiable limit, or there is not.  Pick a side and stay on it.


I picked my side long ago. My country's side. And I, for one, do not believe that continued large-scale immigration during times of hardship is in the best interests of my side - my country and my countrymen.



> "..._As regards that comment #3: "desperate newcomers are willing to low-ball them on a sufficiently broad scale so as to erode the standard of living for workers in those industries and trades and professions, then, we have something quantifiable to latch onto." -- does not quantify anything; it presents an undocumented fantasy scenario.  You've suggested that "desperate newcomers" are "lowballing". In effect you've constructed a strawman which you then point to as "proof".  That only works if we accept the strawman.l_..."



Oh, dear me, you continue to want hard-and-fast numbers...

I'm sure you can find them in the Immigration sub-board someplace, or on the Net...

But, meanwhile, feel free to ask any healthy cross-section of Carpenters or Stone-Masons or Welders or Iron Workers or Plumbers, whether or not waves of immigrants (mostly illegal) have penetrated their trades and professions on a large scale and undercut and undermined their ability to earn a living for themselves and their families.

It's not a straw-man argument... it's en echoing of widespread and common perception and experience... and I"m content to leave it within the realm of Anecdote for another day.



> "..._indeed you've just described them as a 'plague of locusts'_..."



Indeed.



> "..._That speaks volumes about your own bias_..."



Oh, indeed it does.

I am on the side of my people - Americans of all flavors - and not Outsiders.

Why? Whose side are you on?



> "..._and how it affects the fantasy scenarios you put up as your strawmen_..."



I'm sure that was supposed to be terribly clever, but, in truth, it's a rather embarrassingly clumsy attempt to discredit a position through attack upon the advocate.

But... do keep trying... you may yet get it right.



> "..._incidentally, what do you think your grocery shelf will look like once you've driven this 'plague of locusts' off the farms?_..."



I dunno. Let's find out. 



> "..._Joke noted, and obviously my reference is a sarcastic dig at the mindless mentality that originated this thread_..."



Noted, in turn, and with some potential for common ground in that narrow context.

Thanks again.


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> /
> 
> Your such an idiot. Actually to be Muslim......you a bigot and xenophobic douche......zealots who for political and religious reasons hate this country .....feel more comfortable blaming all Muslims .....hate evil...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, yeah, yeah, the usual name calling.  And some how I must be a fool for remembering that on 9-11 and the Boston Marathon bombing 2,980 innocent people were murdered by foreign Muslims.  There is nothing you can say to defend those acts.  As usual there is not a fact/link in sight to support a word you post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, you're a fool for selectively not remembering stuff like Oklahoma City and Atlanta and Birmingham, and for concluding that despite those, 9/11 and Boston have their origins in religion rather than in radical political terrorism and a random act of a culture of violence respectively.
> 
> If your thought had any consistency you'd have to conclude that the three first named events were the product of Christianism.  And in that you'd still be a fool.  But at least you'd be consistent.
> 
> Fat chance of that.
Click to expand...


Well, duh!  Why not try staying on topic?

The issue is those killed at the Boston Marathon Bombing by Muslim extremists.  Throwing a distraction to Oklahoma city is irrelevant.  Get rid of the Muslims and we get rid of a big part of the problem. 

Domestic terrorists are an American problem, third world fanatics are not.  We should have never given them an opportunity in the United States.  It was a mistake, and now we know it.  Foreign Muslims were given a fresh start and they blow up our cities and kill our citizens.  

This is a no-brainer.  Deportation and shoot-to-kill are the answers.


----------



## Beachboy

Bullwurth said:


> Indeed. Extremists are all the same, whether left, right, Christian or Muslim, but those hate-mongering extremists are only a small percentage of either Islam or Christianity or any other religion.
> Imagine if all westerners or Christians were lumped in with the ignorant, extremist nonsense spouted in the OP.
> Ignore the extremist hate-mongers that come on the forum to spread their filth.
> They are irrelevant.



*I think you need to come up with a fact/link to show that*, "Imagine if all westerners or Christians were lumped in with the ignorant, extremist nonsense spouted in the OP."  I believe it is true, only more true for Muslims.  It is not just me, read this thread.  The idea is,  "We love you so much we are going to blow up your cities and and kill your citizens ~ then send you to Allah!"

I would love to hear what you would be saying if one of your relatives or friends had died in the Boston Marathon bombing.  Apparently just another traitor to America.






The Mods won't let me show the disfigured bodies of the Marathon dead on the autopsy table.  
So, here is a link.  http://www.lucidtrip.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/dead-terrorist.jpg​


----------



## Pogo

Kondor3 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't help noticing that you've played down the whole absolute numbers game in the first, second and fourth comments, yet go right back to it in the third.  Either there is a quantifiable limit, or there is not.  Pick a side and stay on it.
> 
> 
> 
> I picked my side long ago. My country's side. And I, for one, do not believe that continued large-scale immigration during times of hardship is in the best interests of my side - my country and my countrymen.
Click to expand...


That is, in its empty appeal to emotion, a concession of my point that you have no basis.  Thanks.



Kondor3 said:


> "..._As regards that comment #3: "desperate newcomers are willing to low-ball them on a sufficiently broad scale so as to erode the standard of living for workers in those industries and trades and professions, then, we have something quantifiable to latch onto." -- does not quantify anything; it presents an undocumented fantasy scenario.  You've suggested that "desperate newcomers" are "lowballing". In effect you've constructed a strawman which you then point to as "proof".  That only works if we accept the strawman.l_..."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, dear me, you continue to want hard-and-fast numbers...
Click to expand...


Yes, because that IS your basis.  "We're full-up".



Kondor3 said:


> I'm sure you can find them in the Immigration sub-board someplace, or on the Net...



Why would I ask them?  It isn't their claim that "we're full-up".



Kondor3 said:


> But, meanwhile, feel free to ask any healthy cross-section of Carpenters or Stone-Masons or Welders or Iron Workers or Plumbers, whether or not waves of immigrants (mostly illegal) have penetrated their trades and professions on a large scale and undercut and undermined their ability to earn a living for themselves and their families.



Actually I just had some tree work done, and it wouldn't have got done without Reuben...

Last time I talked with somebody actually affected (a contractor) he was complaining that he couldn't continue his own business without his helper who had run into some kind of trouble with INS.  Somehow his being immobilized doesn't exactly equate to "undercutting and undermining" this guy's ability to earn a living.

Again, it's not just a simple addition and subtraction here.



Kondor3 said:


> It's not a straw-man argument... it's en echoing of widespread and common perception and experience... and I"m content to leave it within the realm of Anecdote for another day.



Actually you've just denied strawmanning and then described a strawman.  Thanks for that too.



Kondor3 said:


> "...indeed you've just described them as a 'plague of locusts'..."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "...That speaks volumes about your own bias..."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, indeed it does.
> 
> I am on the side of my people - Americans of all flavors - and not Outsiders.
> 
> Why? Whose side are you on?
Click to expand...


Logic.  And for the third time in one post you've conceded a fallacious position.  Thanks.




Kondor3 said:


> I'm sure that was supposed to be terribly clever, but, in truth, it's a rather embarrassingly clumsy attempt to discredit a position through attack upon the advocate.



"Clumsy" is in the eye of the reader here, because all you've separated out is the completion of the previous thought immediately above it.  It's not a separate clause; it's dependent on what comes before it.  Taking it out of context proves nothing.

Appeals to emotion without any logical basis, is a fallacy.  Constructing strawmen out of those imaginary emotional scenaria is worthless as a basis of argument.  Act all the martyr you want, that's just the way it is.  Playing the martyr is just a cheap rhetorical trick to affix an ad hominem strawman argument onto your opponent.  It's been tried before.  It's dishonest.


----------



## yidnar

I wonder if the IRS targeted nonprofit muslim groups ??  they certainly targeted Christian groups !!


----------



## Kondor3

Thank you, Pogo... disengaging now... in my oh-so-nefarious and dishonest manner... be sure to declare O_verwhelming and Decisive Final Victory_ before wrapping this one up...


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, yeah, yeah, the usual name calling.  And some how I must be a fool for remembering that on 9-11 and the Boston Marathon bombing 2,980 innocent people were murdered by foreign Muslims.  There is nothing you can say to defend those acts.  As usual there is not a fact/link in sight to support a word you post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you're a fool for selectively not remembering stuff like Oklahoma City and Atlanta and Birmingham, and for concluding that despite those, 9/11 and Boston have their origins in religion rather than in radical political terrorism and a random act of a culture of violence respectively.
> 
> If your thought had any consistency you'd have to conclude that the three first named events were the product of Christianism.  And in that you'd still be a fool.  But at least you'd be consistent.
> 
> Fat chance of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, duh!  Why not try staying on topic?
> 
> The issue is those killed at the Boston Marathon Bombing by Muslim extremists.  Throwing a distraction to Oklahoma city is irrelevant.  Get rid of the Muslims and we get rid of a big part of the problem.
> 
> Domestic terrorists are an American problem, third world fanatics are not.  We should have never given them an opportunity in the United States.  It was a mistake, and now we know it.  Foreign Muslims were given a fresh start and they blow up our cities and kill our citizens.
> 
> This is a no-brainer.  Deportation and shoot-to-kill are the answers.
Click to expand...


Actually the irrelevancy is your faulty conclusion of "Muslim" as a causation with absolutely no evidence whatsoever.  *HAD *your basis been that religion is behind extremist violence, *THEN *you would have to conclude that Okie City (et al) was the product of Christianism.  That you won't do that proves your selective application.  

Add to that your broad-brush fallacy that "foreign Muslims" do this, disproven millions of times over by all the foreign Muslims that do not.  You could conclude that they were all done by righthanded people born under water signs a day of the week that has an S in it, therefore we should ban _them_.  It would be equally fallacious.

Thus your entire position is complete bullshit, QED.


----------



## Pogo

Kondor3 said:


> Thank you, Pogo... disengaging now... in my oh-so-nefarious and dishonest manner... be sure to declare O_verwhelming and Decisive Final Victory_ before wrapping this one up...



Hey, I don't make the rules of logic, I just enforce 'em.

Thanks for bringing a tangent worthy of discussion into this cesspool thread, however briefly.


----------



## beagle9

Kondor3 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> _I've done my part for King and Country, so to speak, and I'm confident that a stance which advocates a closing of the Immigration Door for some years not only does no harm, but buys breathing space in which to recover and to regain strength. After all... when you cannot argue from the vantage point of logic and common sense..._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------
> 
> _YOU are not arguing from a "vantage point of logic and common sense." Quite the contrary. Look at the illogical conclusion you try to draw above. As for common sense, fantasizing about stopping all immigration to the US for years and years is the furthest thing from a display of common sense. You are reacting emotionally, and in a manner that suggests you do not understand America.
> 
> Why not channel all the energy generated by your obvious fear into something productive, like working toward holding our elected representatives accountable for not doing more to combat ILLEGAL immigration?_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have, indeed, been arguing from logic and common sense for the past day or so...
> 
> The salient points are...
> 
> 1. we are full-up... 330,000,000 and bursting at the seams
> 
> 2. our days of transcontinental and industrial expansion are over and fresh hordes of immigrants are not needed
> 
> 3. we cannot even provide enough jobs for our own people; they don't need even more low-ball bidding from impoverished and desperate newcomers to further erode their chances
> 
> 4. our medical system, educational system and welfare system are already badly overstrained and we don't need fresh waves of newcomers to strain them even further
> 
> ...and I've even gone so far as to draw a useful analogy, earlier, about HR Depts not hiring when their companies are already operating at full capacity and have no openings
> 
> All I get out of you in return is lightweight fluff about how I don't understand America and what it is and how I'm arguing from emotion and fear and other baseless accusations on your part.
> 
> No sale.
> 
> And I've grown rather weary of your automatic gainsay... Yes it is... No it's not... Yes it is... No it's not...etc... etc... etc...
> 
> If I were to engage in the sort of Unfounded Speculation, directed towards you, that you already directed towards me recently, I would most probably conclude that...
> 
> 1. you have a personal (self or family) stake in ensuring that we keep our doors wide-open
> 
> ...or...
> 
> 2. you are a misguided and impractical idealist in this context
> 
> ...or...
> 
> 3. you are an Internationalist - a No Borders type of political creature
> 
> ...or...
> 
> 4. you are an ostrich-like head-in-the-sand type who cannot face unpleasant truths about the strain that waves of newcomers place upon our fragile state
> 
> ...but, as I said, that would be Unfounded Speculation on my part, so, I will return the favor that you've shown me, in part, just to project an adequate defense, but without actually committing to such bald, rash and juvenile accusations in the absence of solid evidence to the contrary, simply because you see things differently than I do.
> 
> I could not even get you to the discussion table without you kicking and screaming about how unfair and wrong and foolhardy and un-American such positions (_suspending further large-scale immigration for a decade or more until we've caught our breath again_) were.
> 
> And, frankly, in light of your juvenile behavioral manifestations over the course of the past couple of pages, I've lost all interest in attempting anything further along those lines.
> 
> Rightly or wrongly, you strike me as a Dogmatic in this context.
> 
> For that and other reasons... I'm done with this particular exchange.
> 
> Thank you for your time.
Click to expand...

Usually the want for unfettered immigration is either steeped in corporate greed and corporate control or it is needed and promoted by a government in order to displace the supposed old enemy that lies within, in which would be against a new ideological way of thinking that a government may be leaning towards, so what better way to do that this than a controlled open door policy on immigration (flooding), where as in this thinking their is a type of government whom may be in power, and for whom can somehow in it's mind get political results towards the displacement of those who would resist the goals and power of such a government, in which a government would want to now project or use these masses in order to then hold on to such power indefinitely...     It's all connected I think.

This nation could very well be in a dangerous transitional state, so we must all keep a sharp eye out on the horizon, in order to see what could be coming next.


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> The Mods won't let me show the disfigured bodies of the Marathon dead on the autopsy table.
> So, here is a link.  http://www.lucidtrip.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/dead-terrorist.jpg[/CENTER]



Uh yeah-- unnecessarily graphic images are against the rules here.  Duh.

Your link doesn't go to "bodies of the Marathon dead" anyway; it goes to some blog that labels the picture "this is what a dead terrorist looks like", purporting to be the body of Tamerian Tsarnaev (although it also lists "source unknown").  Only problem with that caption is nobody has shown any evidence that the Boston bombing was terrorism.  Which means your blog is as full of shit as you are, but more to the point, it's allegedly a picture of the perpetrator and his injuries from a police battle -- not a victim with injuries from a bombing.

Apparently your aim was to go for Appeal to Emotion with a graphic of a victim, as if that would make your illegitimate point work, and you even fucked that one up.


----------



## Unkotare

Kondor3 said:


> 1. we are full-up... 330,000,000 and bursting at the seams.






I have proven to you that we are NOT "bursting at the seams" by any means. I even provided you with a chart and everything. Again, you are just being fearful and emotive. American-born US citizens are just barely at replacement levels of fertility, and without immigration we would be staring down the barrel of rapid population decline that the rest of the developed world is (and that we will eventually anyway).


----------



## Unkotare

Kondor3 said:


> 2. our days of transcontinental and industrial expansion are over and fresh hordes of immigrants are not needed.






Thinking that the completion of the transcontinental railroad marked the end of the need for labor is about as far from "common sense" as you can get, genius.


----------



## Unkotare

Kondor3 said:


> 3. we cannot even provide enough jobs for our own people; they don't need even more low-ball bidding from impoverished and desperate newcomers to further erode their chances.





A) Many companies have many positions they are looking to fill but cannot.

B) Many manual labor jobs are not filled by Americans for reasons having nothing to do with immigration.

C) Again, you seem to be confusing legal and illegal immigration, ignorantly if not willfully.


----------



## Unkotare

Kondor3 said:


> 4. our medical system, educational system and welfare system are already badly overstrained .






They are not "badly overstrained," they are poorly managed and hindered by government incompetence.


----------



## Unkotare

S.J. said:


> We should only let people in who want to be Americans, and whose loyalty will lie with America.





All naturalized US citizens take an oath to that effect. It has been that way for a very long time.


----------



## beagle9

Kondor3 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't help noticing that you've played down the whole absolute numbers game in the first, second and fourth comments, yet go right back to it in the third.  Either there is a quantifiable limit, or there is not.  Pick a side and stay on it.
> 
> 
> 
> I picked my side long ago. My country's side. And I, for one, do not believe that continued large-scale immigration during times of hardship is in the best interests of my side - my country and my countrymen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._As regards that comment #3: "desperate newcomers are willing to low-ball them on a sufficiently broad scale so as to erode the standard of living for workers in those industries and trades and professions, then, we have something quantifiable to latch onto." -- does not quantify anything; it presents an undocumented fantasy scenario.  You've suggested that "desperate newcomers" are "lowballing". In effect you've constructed a strawman which you then point to as "proof".  That only works if we accept the strawman.l_..."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, dear me, you continue to want hard-and-fast numbers...
> 
> I'm sure you can find them in the Immigration sub-board someplace, or on the Net...
> 
> But, meanwhile, feel free to ask any healthy cross-section of Carpenters or Stone-Masons or Welders or Iron Workers or Plumbers, whether or not waves of immigrants (mostly illegal) have penetrated their trades and professions on a large scale and undercut and undermined their ability to earn a living for themselves and their families.
> 
> It's not a straw-man argument... it's en echoing of widespread and common perception and experience... and I"m content to leave it within the realm of Anecdote for another day.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, indeed it does.
> 
> I am on the side of my people - Americans of all flavors - and not Outsiders.
> 
> Why? Whose side are you on?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure that was supposed to be terribly clever, but, in truth, it's a rather embarrassingly clumsy attempt to discredit a position through attack upon the advocate.
> 
> But... do keep trying... you may yet get it right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._incidentally, what do you think your grocery shelf will look like once you've driven this 'plague of locusts' off the farms?_..."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I dunno. Let's find out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._Joke noted, and obviously my reference is a sarcastic dig at the mindless mentality that originated this thread_..."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Noted, in turn, and with some potential for common ground in that narrow context.
> 
> Thanks again.
Click to expand...

What is being missed here also, is our very sovereignty as an American Nation is at stake, and we as Americans where as when calling ourselves Americans anymore, are being seen by those who are opposed within this nation, as being the same in the equivalent to calling ourselves the Nazi's or Germans right after world war two or during ((a dirty word)) as was seen & known back then, and this when we are calling ourselves Americans today by some of their thinking, and especially in the traditional sense of that word American as it was once spoken. So now here we are being chastised over it. How dare that we would want to hang on to our identity, I mean the nerve of us for wanting to do that now. 

This out of control immigration is a way to water down the old traditionalist or to drown out the so called many American so called and/or accused of being "bigots" now, from whom their voices and their opinions of what being an American should be and should always be about "offends" those for whom oppose such as this now, and to continue in the way that it has no more. Hec they have made bold and outright statements to this affect, but we are to think that they mean nothing by such statements in which they make? 

The nations is under attack by many differing opinions from within this nation now, as to redefine who we are or who we should be, and also by those whom want to use the immigration system to wash out or (flood) the original believers out in what they believe America is, was, and still should be in their minds.   We actually could be under siege now I think in all of this.


----------



## beagle9

Unkotare said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 4. our medical system, educational system and welfare system are already badly overstrained .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are not "badly overstrained," they are poorly managed and hindered by government incompetence.
Click to expand...

Government purposeful incompetence is right, and government purposeful bad management is also right....   The fact that this government has engaged in the undermining of our very own nation and systems over time is an understatement really.


----------



## Unkotare

Kondor3 said:


> I picked my side long ago. My country's side. .




No, you didn't. You have only fooled yourself into thinking that your fear and ignorance represents that "side" because you are a slave to your emotions and don't understand the country.


----------



## Kondor3

Unkotare said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I picked my side long ago. My country's side. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you didn't. You have only fooled yourself into thinking that your fear and ignorance represents that "side" because you are a slave to your emotions and don't understand the country.
Click to expand...

I've already had my say and will pick this up in the Immigration sub-board on some later date; meanwhile, as I said, I'm done with this particular exchange. Thanks.


----------



## beagle9

Unkotare said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 3. we cannot even provide enough jobs for our own people; they don't need even more low-ball bidding from impoverished and desperate newcomers to further erode their chances.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A) Many companies have many positions they are looking to fill but cannot.
> 
> B) Many manual labor jobs are not filled by Americans for reasons having nothing to do with immigration.
> 
> C) Again, you seem to be confusing legal and illegal immigration, ignorantly if not willfully.
Click to expand...

The only way to solve the labor situation in this nation, is to finally rate labor by job title, give each and every job title a rating and structure, then make it so the companies honor the labor rating of each of these job titles.

Example: ((a truck driver)) should start at a rating of no less than 15.oo dollars an hour certified as a minimum, then the company could send into the government what they can do beyond this rate as a structured pay scale if full time employed for it's review, and finally a top out on the rate in which they can afford in perception of good times and stable conditions, therefore completing the truck drivers career if stay with them the 25 years as expected. The government in return for this action, could give some assistance to the company in the way of subsidizing the driver at times, if such a time should arise out of problems occurring beyond what the company had expected or could control.

It would be a win, win situation, for all Americans if this was the case in America where the government and companies with employee's say 25 and above would have such a great new relationship in such a situation as this. No longer could the rich be attacked and accused of greed and hording the money, because everyone would know where they stand as employee's and so would companies who would have a meaningful structure in which the employee could be employed under.   Then you could have competition where some companies would still offer way beyond this basic starting pay and in structure for the employee who came to them, just to end up with the best in their company working for them as well.

Welders - 18.oo dollars start up and then the structural agreement afterwards for raises and so forth as part the package offered.

Machinist - 18.oo dollars start up

mechanics - 15.oo dollars start up

field workers - 8.oo dollars start up, then bonuses on the amount picked, no package offered due to seasonal.

and on and on it go in these ratings.

This is the only way to beat corporate greed and companies not doing right by their employee's so on and so forth, and we should do away with the blanket minimum wage system, and instead go with this one instead.


----------



## Unkotare

beagle9 said:


> This out of control immigration is ...





Immigration is hardly "out of control," it's just criminally mismanaged like everything else this administration puts its hands on. The problem is *ILLEGAL* immigration. It is entirely too hard and time consuming for good, honest people who want to come here *LEGALLY* and too easy for those with no respect for our sovereignty to sneak in and live here comfortably. And when we can't catch those with evil intent working the legal system to come here, imagine what's crawling through the back door that we willfully turn a blind eye to.


----------



## Unkotare

beagle9 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 3. we cannot even provide enough jobs for our own people; they don't need even more low-ball bidding from impoverished and desperate newcomers to further erode their chances.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A) Many companies have many positions they are looking to fill but cannot.
> 
> B) Many manual labor jobs are not filled by Americans for reasons having nothing to do with immigration.
> 
> C) Again, you seem to be confusing legal and illegal immigration, ignorantly if not willfully.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only way to solve the labor situation in this nation, is to finally rate labor by job title, give each and every job title a rating and structure, then make it so the companies honor the labor rating of each of these job titles..
Click to expand...



Wage controls and a centrally-commanded economy has never "solved" shit. One of the ways that the criminal FDR unnecessarily prolonged the Great Depression was through wage controls.


----------



## Unkotare

Kondor3 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I picked my side long ago. My country's side. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you didn't. You have only fooled yourself into thinking that your fear and ignorance represents that "side" because you are a slave to your emotions and don't understand the country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've already had my say and will pick this up in the Immigration sub-board on some later date; meanwhile, as I said, I'm done with this particular exchange. Thanks.
Click to expand...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAp9sFVdERQ]Run away! - Monty Python and the Holy Grail - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## beagle9

Unkotare said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> A) Many companies have many positions they are looking to fill but cannot.
> 
> B) Many manual labor jobs are not filled by Americans for reasons having nothing to do with immigration.
> 
> C) Again, you seem to be confusing legal and illegal immigration, ignorantly if not willfully.
> 
> 
> 
> The only way to solve the labor situation in this nation, is to finally rate labor by job title, give each and every job title a rating and structure, then make it so the companies honor the labor rating of each of these job titles..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wage controls and a centrally-commanded economy has never "solved" shit. One of the ways that the criminal FDR unnecessarily prolonged the Great Depression was through wage controls.
Click to expand...

What's better (out of control corporations or companies undermining the entire nation), or to get some kind of handle on it with a job ratings system, and this so everyone knows where they stand from the workers to the companies and the government who receives revenues from it all ?

Show me something that will keep the occupiers from dong what they felt they needed to do or the bankers from doing what they did, and so on and so forth..


----------



## Kondor3

Unkotare said:


> "...run away..."



Hardly. I'm late to pick up my date at Castle Anthrax. Some stone-cold fox named Zoot...


----------



## beagle9

If FDR implemented wage controls or job ratings (which one was it?), then it probably helped the nation get out of the depression instead of prolonged it.

Is wage controls or job ratings the same in as far as FDR was concerned or had implemented ?


----------



## Unkotare

Stop interfering on all fronts and let the market hash things out. Don't 'save' any big banks or corporations, and don't tell small businesses what they must and must not do at every turn. Keep the umpire, but tell him to calm the fuck down (the fans aren't there to see him) and widen the strike zone considerably. Americans will take care of the rest.


----------



## Unkotare

Kondor3 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> "...run away..."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hardly. I'm late to pick up my date at Castle Anthrax. Some stone-cold fox named Zoot...
Click to expand...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9xRhwmHBBE]irobot - im allergic to bullshit - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Unkotare

beagle9 said:


> If FDR implemented wage controls or job ratings (which one was it?), then it probably helped the nation get out of the depression instead of prolonged it.





That's not how it happened (or would ever happen). Just one example of how that criminal scumbag harmed (and continues to harm) our nation. The US economy really took off again not just because the war ended, but because much of the artificial bullshit that fucking villain burdened it with was lifted and the market was able to spring back to life.


----------



## beagle9

Unkotare said:


> Stop interfering on all fronts and let the market hash things out. Don't 'save' any big banks or corporations, and don't tell small businesses what they must and must not do at every turn. Keep the umpire, but tell him to calm the fuck down (the fans aren't there to see him) and widen the strike zone considerably. Americans will take care of the rest.


Stop interfering when the deck is being stacked against the middle class as it were, and has shockingly since been eliminating the middle class for quite sometime now, but your attitude is to stop meddling or interfering eh ? Spoken like a fine yes man I must say...


----------



## beagle9

Unkotare said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If FDR implemented wage controls or job ratings (which one was it?), then it probably helped the nation get out of the depression instead of prolonged it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's not how it happened (or would ever happen). Just one example of how that criminal scumbag harmed (and continues to harm) our nation. The US economy really took off again not just because the war ended, but because much of the artificial bullshit that fucking villain burdened it with was lifted and the market was able to spring back to life.
Click to expand...

Now your speaking on different times periods, and the needs of those time periods at the time, and so yes when the systems can be trusted again, then an easing of the reins can be loosened back up again, and yes this is when the nation thrives again when trust and freedom reign supreme together again. My problem is, is that this government can't be trusted with the reins of this carriage.


----------



## Kondor3

Unkotare said:


> "..._im allergic to bullshit_..."



Don't over-think it, snookums, or you're sure to do yourself an injury...


----------



## Unkotare

beagle9 said:


> [
> 
> Show me something that will keep the occupiers from dong what they felt they needed to do ..



Ok

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmuyLIrSjxI]Vehicle-Mounted Active Denial System (V-MADS) - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Beachboy

Aristotle said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am sick of you bigots....There are Muslims who have died defending this ungrateful country.
> 
> 
> Edit: Am I pro Muslim? Yes. I am pro any human that wishes to advance this country to further greatness. I am so sick of xenophobes blaming terrorist acts on all Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, all of us are bigots because we want Muslims to stop blowing up our cities and killing our citizens?
> 
> The facts speak for themselves, and the American people know that Islam and America are incompatible.
> 
> The word you should be looking for is not to call me a "racist," but to think of yourself as possibly a "traitor."  There is no defending Muslim barbarians.
> 
> First it was New York.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> Then it was Boston.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, next it will not be a U. S. City.   It will be Tehran, Iran.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims will learn, when America says "Jump," their response will be "How high!"​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your such an idiot. Actually to be Muslim is not an ethnic identity so calling you a bigot and xenophobic douche is much more appropriate. Second, there are what, 8-10 million Muslims most living in Michigan. Why don't we hear about terrorist acts in dearborn Michigan?
> 
> 
> The problem aren't the Muslims. The problem are the zealots who for political and religious reasons hate this country and believe to demonstrate change for their cause, they blow buildings up. Oh but I am sure you would feel more comfortable blaming all Muslims I am sure being logical would not be convinient for you.
> 
> 
> I have Muslim friends who like me, love this country and hate evil. The few so called Muslims dont represent the majority.
> 
> Actually to correct myself there are approximately 10 million Muslims in the United states. Majority of them live in Michigan, and dearborn is a very Muslim populated city, so I'd like to ask why Michigan is not being targeted since Muslims are so violent?
Click to expand...





​ 
Have you seen ANY Muslims in this thread express sympathy for the victims of 9-11 or the Boston Marathon bombing?  No.  They are on a mission from Allah to push their bull shit all over the planet.

Muslims are people who hide behind their very violent religion while perpetrating Jihad.  They believe Islam should dominate the world, and Muslim ideas are not compatible with America.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.  It's a duck!




​


----------



## Beachboy

beagle9 said:


> If FDR implemented wage controls or job ratings (which one was it?), then it probably helped the nation get out of the depression instead of prolonged it.
> 
> Is wage controls or job ratings the same in as far as FDR was concerned or had implemented ?



I think we would all like to see a fact/link on this information.  OOoops!  Forgot you are "hit and run" poster.


----------



## Unkotare

beagle9 said:


> Show me something that will keep the ... bankers from doing what they did...



Ok

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6UcRPyVSfM]Life Stinks Official Trailer #1 - Jeffrey Tambor Movie (1991) HD - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Unkotare

beagle9 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop interfering on all fronts and let the market hash things out. Don't 'save' any big banks or corporations, and don't tell small businesses what they must and must not do at every turn. Keep the umpire, but tell him to calm the fuck down (the fans aren't there to see him) and widen the strike zone considerably. Americans will take care of the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> Stop interfering when the deck is being stacked against the middle class as it were, and has shockingly since been eliminating the middle class for quite sometime now, but your attitude is to stop meddling or interfering eh ? Spoken like a fine yes man I must say...
Click to expand...



Good luck with your imaginary class war. Be careful with those imaginary guns.


----------



## Unkotare

beagle9 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If FDR implemented wage controls or job ratings (which one was it?), then it probably helped the nation get out of the depression instead of prolonged it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's not how it happened (or would ever happen). Just one example of how that criminal scumbag harmed (and continues to harm) our nation. The US economy really took off again not just because the war ended, but because much of the artificial bullshit that fucking villain burdened it with was lifted and the market was able to spring back to life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now your speaking on different times periods, and the needs of those time periods at the time, and so yes when the systems can be trusted again, then an easing of the reins can be loosened back up again, and yes this is when the nation thrives again when trust and freedom reign supreme together again. My problem is, is that this government can't be trusted with the reins of this carriage.
Click to expand...




Oh yeah, because government just loves to give up power once it seizes it...


----------



## Beachboy

*Is it just me, or does it seem like  someone has an agenda of distraction to keep this thread off topic.   Now who would have something to gain from that?

The OP*



Beachboy said:


> *
> *
> If we did not allow Muslim foreigners into the United States...........
> ......there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  Duh!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​ This is not rocket science.


----------



## S.J.

Unkotare said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> We should only let people in who want to be Americans, and whose loyalty will lie with America.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All naturalized US citizens take an oath to that effect. It has been that way for a very long time.
Click to expand...

So what?  Obama took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution and all he's done is piss on it since he's been in office.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Beachboy said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, all of us are bigots because we want Muslims to stop blowing up our cities and killing our citizens?
> 
> The facts speak for themselves, and the American people know that Islam and America are incompatible.
> 
> The word you should be looking for is not to call me a "racist," but to think of yourself as possibly a "traitor."  There is no defending Muslim barbarians.
> 
> First it was New York.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> Then it was Boston.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, next it will not be a U. S. City.   It will be Tehran, Iran.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims will learn, when America says "Jump," their response will be "How high!"​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your such an idiot. Actually to be Muslim is not an ethnic identity so calling you a bigot and xenophobic douche is much more appropriate. Second, there are what, 8-10 million Muslims most living in Michigan. Why don't we hear about terrorist acts in dearborn Michigan?
> 
> 
> The problem aren't the Muslims. The problem are the zealots who for political and religious reasons hate this country and believe to demonstrate change for their cause, they blow buildings up. Oh but I am sure you would feel more comfortable blaming all Muslims I am sure being logical would not be convinient for you.
> 
> 
> I have Muslim friends who like me, love this country and hate evil. The few so called Muslims dont represent the majority.
> 
> Actually to correct myself there are approximately 10 million Muslims in the United states. Majority of them live in Michigan, and dearborn is a very Muslim populated city, so I'd like to ask why Michigan is not being targeted since Muslims are so violent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> Have you seen ANY Muslims in this thread express sympathy for the victims of 9-11 or the Boston Marathon bombing?  No.  They are on a mission from Allah to push their bull shit all over the planet.
> 
> Muslims are people who hide behind their very violent religion while perpetrating Jihad.  They believe Islam should dominate the world, and Muslim ideas are not compatible with America.
> 
> If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.  It's a duck!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
Click to expand...


You're right..................if it acts like a bigot, walks like a bigot and posts like a bigot, it's probably a bigot.

And.....................if it's posted by BitchBoi, or if it's someone that agrees with his bigoted views, they're probably racist as well.


----------



## S.J.

Whenever an American tells the truth about muslims, lefties race to get in line to call him a bigot, racist, and anything else they can think of to discredit him.


----------



## ABikerSailor

S.J. said:


> Whenever an American tells the truth about muslims, lefties race to get in line to call him a bigot, racist, and anything else they can think of to discredit him.



Yo.....................*S*tupid *J*ackass.............................I've actually been to Muslim countries (Dubai U.A.E, Jiddah Saudi Arabia, as well as a couple of others).  Where have YOU been to call people out?

I'm guessing that you get your information from right wing sites and FAUX Nooze.


----------



## beagle9

ABikerSailor said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whenever an American tells the truth about muslims, lefties race to get in line to call him a bigot, racist, and anything else they can think of to discredit him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yo.....................*S*tupid *J*ackass.............................I've actually been to Muslim countries (Dubai U.A.E, Jiddah Saudi Arabia, as well as a couple of others).  Where have YOU been to call people out?
> 
> I'm guessing that you get your information from right wing sites and FAUX Nooze.
Click to expand...

One thing you can't hide, is what they have done or that they are still doing as far as killing goes, and why it is that they kill can you ? But you figure your own countrymen are the problem eh ?


----------



## Kondor3

S.J. said:


> Whenever an American tells the truth about muslims, lefties race to get in line to call him a bigot, racist, and anything else they can think of to discredit him.


Yes. With caveats - that is my perception as well. Part of the problem seems to be a Surrender Monkey / Appeasement mindset - a spineless-ness and suicidal self-loathing / self-abasement that was rare in older generations of Left-leaning predecessors. Funny. Sad. Scary.


----------



## beagle9

Kondor3 said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whenever an American tells the truth about muslims, lefties race to get in line to call him a bigot, racist, and anything else they can think of to discredit him.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. With caveats - that is my perception as well. Part of the problem seems to be a Surrender Monkey / Appeasement mindset - a spineless-ness and suicidal self-loathing / self-abasement that was rare in older generations of Left-leaning predecessors. Funny. Sad. Scary.
Click to expand...

The federal government of this nation has dumbed us down so bad now, and has made us so scared to make any kind of judgment upon our own society, and upon our own nation for security purposes, that it just isn't funny anymore. This is what happens when a government is taken over by people who think like this, and so it goes the way that it goes ya know. It is because of their injecting themselves into everything, that we have all of this problem now I think. All it does is swap one evil for another..


----------



## Esmeralda

Beachboy said:


> *
> 
> The Boston Marathon Bombing was preventable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *.*
> *



You were preventable, and yet you are here.


We can prevent all babies, or we can take a chance on what we get.  Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.


----------



## S.J.

ABikerSailor said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whenever an American tells the truth about muslims, lefties race to get in line to call him a bigot, racist, and anything else they can think of to discredit him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yo.....................*S*tupid *J*ackass.............................I've actually been to Muslim countries (Dubai U.A.E, Jiddah Saudi Arabia, as well as a couple of others).  Where have YOU been to call people out?
> 
> I'm guessing that you get your information from right wing sites and FAUX Nooze.
Click to expand...

If you're gonna comment on what I said, it should at least have something to do with what I said.


----------



## Unkotare

S.J. said:


> Whenever an American tells the truth about muslims..





For example?


----------



## beagle9

Esmeralda said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> The Boston Marathon Bombing was preventable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *.*
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were preventable, and yet you are here.
> 
> 
> We can prevent all babies, or we can take a chance on what we get.  Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.
Click to expand...

So it would be more your wish to have killed us (your own countrymen) with your supposed silent death of abortion in which you are ok with, and you do support, and somehow that makes it ok with you, but for those who are here and are grown up wanting to kill us, we are to keep our mouths shut until they bomb us eh ? Is this your position with such a statement as you just made ?


----------



## beagle9

Beachboy said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If FDR implemented wage controls or job ratings (which one was it?), then it probably helped the nation get out of the depression instead of prolonged it.
> 
> Is wage controls or job ratings the same in as far as FDR was concerned or had implemented ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think we would all like to see a fact/link on this information.  OOoops!  Forgot you are "hit and run" poster.
Click to expand...

I'm just responding to Ukatar, where as we were discussing this, and he claimed FDR was a bad person who hurt this nation during the depression..


----------



## beagle9

ABikerSailor said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your such an idiot. Actually to be Muslim is not an ethnic identity so calling you a bigot and xenophobic douche is much more appropriate. Second, there are what, 8-10 million Muslims most living in Michigan. Why don't we hear about terrorist acts in dearborn Michigan?
> 
> 
> The problem aren't the Muslims. The problem are the zealots who for political and religious reasons hate this country and believe to demonstrate change for their cause, they blow buildings up. Oh but I am sure you would feel more comfortable blaming all Muslims I am sure being logical would not be convinient for you.
> 
> 
> I have Muslim friends who like me, love this country and hate evil. The few so called Muslims dont represent the majority.
> 
> Actually to correct myself there are approximately 10 million Muslims in the United states. Majority of them live in Michigan, and dearborn is a very Muslim populated city, so I'd like to ask why Michigan is not being targeted since Muslims are so violent?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> Have you seen ANY Muslims in this thread express sympathy for the victims of 9-11 or the Boston Marathon bombing?  No.  They are on a mission from Allah to push their bull shit all over the planet.
> 
> Muslims are people who hide behind their very violent religion while perpetrating Jihad.  They believe Islam should dominate the world, and Muslim ideas are not compatible with America.
> 
> If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.  It's a duck!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're right..................if it acts like a bigot, walks like a bigot and posts like a bigot, it's probably a bigot.
> 
> And.....................if it's posted by BitchBoi, or if it's someone that agrees with his bigoted views, they're probably racist as well.
Click to expand...

The dangers of labeling people bigots, when they are concerned about being blown up, is very telling on how far people will go to keep political correctness intact, and the lib agenda intact no matter how many people die, and this is what the enemy is loving about America these days, and what they are playing on as a weakness.


----------



## beagle9

Unkotare said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Show me something that will keep the ... bankers from doing what they did...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6UcRPyVSfM]Life Stinks Official Trailer #1 - Jeffrey Tambor Movie (1991) HD - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...

Funny that is, I will have to catch that movie...LOL


----------



## beagle9

ABikerSailor said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whenever an American tells the truth about muslims, lefties race to get in line to call him a bigot, racist, and anything else they can think of to discredit him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yo.....................*S*tupid *J*ackass.............................I've actually been to Muslim countries (Dubai U.A.E, Jiddah Saudi Arabia, as well as a couple of others).  Where have YOU been to call people out?
> 
> I'm guessing that you get your information from right wing sites and FAUX Nooze.
Click to expand...

No he gets his information from watching people die at the hands of religious fanatics who are killing his fellow countrymen, just as I do when watching the news and the funerals.


----------



## Esmeralda

beagle9 said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> The Boston Marathon Bombing was preventable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *.*
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were preventable, and yet you are here.
> 
> 
> We can prevent all babies, or we can take a chance on what we get.  Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it would be more your wish to have killed us (your own countrymen) with your supposed silent death of abortion in which you are ok with, and you do support, and somehow that makes it ok with you, but for those who are here and are grown up wanting to kill us, we are to keep our mouths shut until they bomb us eh ? Is this your position with such a statement as you just made ?
Click to expand...


I didn't say anything about abortion.  I'm talking about birth control, you fucking moron.  God, go into a bizarre rant why don't you.


----------



## Unkotare

beagle9 said:


> he claimed FDR was a bad person who hurt this nation during the depression..




I 'claimed' that because it's true.


----------



## Unkotare

beagle9 said:


> The dangers of labeling people bigots, when they are concerned about being blown up, is very telling on how far people will go to keep political correctness intact.







You haven't read all the posts on this thread, have you?


----------



## Unkotare

beagle9 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Show me something that will keep the ... bankers from doing what they did...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6UcRPyVSfM]Life Stinks Official Trailer #1 - Jeffrey Tambor Movie (1991) HD - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny that is, I will have to catch that movie...LOL
Click to expand...



Eh, I wouldn't go out of my way to see it if I were you. Not his best work.


----------



## Pogo

Unkotare said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The dangers of labeling people bigots, when they are concerned about being blown up, is very telling on how far people will go to keep political correctness intact.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You haven't read all the posts on this thread, have you?
Click to expand...


Obviously not.  Maybe he needs a clue or two, or twenty:

"tribalistic animals"; "third world barbarians" (post 10)

"Muslims are enemys [sic] of the American people, and should not be trusted. If there are some good ones, why are they not speaking out, and aiding the American government?  You sure don't see that on the network television news." (Post 19) 


"Muslims are third world animals incapable of catching up to Western thought."  (39)

"You talk like the word "racist" from you is a big sting. Not so. I have already written off your politics. The word "racist" from third worlders like you mean nothing, and to some degree they are a compliment!" (post 50)

"What foreign Muslims, and apparently all Muslims, do not understand is that in the United States it is not the courts, or the government whose opinion counts, it is the television viewers." (59)   huh??

"I could not ask for more ammunition get Americans to hate foreign Muslims. First, the mother wears traditional Muslim garb, which makes her look like a Halloween Zombie. Then she gets hysterical denying facts Americans already know. Message sent - Muslims are unstable, uneducated, violent people.  Then comes the mother's third rate acting skills.  Add it all together with their lies, and American [sic] hate foreign Muslims even more. ... You are hanging yourselves in the eyes of the world, and I could not be happier!"  (ibid)

"That is the fun of a democratic government.  Due process is whatever we say it is." (66)
"America can destroy anyone we like without jeopardizing an American life.  Hell, the pilot can be home for supper with his wife and kids after a day of killing Muslims. Bottom line, our way or die." (67)
"Muslims are terrorists and traitors." (91)
"Rag heads have lost their place in America, now it is just a clean up job." (92)

"They insist on wearing their Halloween clothing on our streets everyday, making America look like a third world country.  This is no religion, it is psycho troublemakers using violence to push their Islam crap." (100);  "Rag heads are not going to twist the facts on this to the American people.  All Muslims will pay for this until they place United States over their 'so-called' Jihad religion." (101)

"Foreign Muslims are clearly terrorists, enemies of the State, and traitors." (104);  "Shoot to kill is the American way of the Second Amendment to the U. S. Constitution.  I would not have a problem with that." (109)

"European culture is American, and it will stay that way.  Obviously, Muslims played no role in the founding of the United States. Muslims got here after the work had been done by others, and began demanding rights, as usual." (113) 

"Just the way we look intimidates Muslims sexually." (141)
(-- this one is especially uh, revealing; not recommended for the squeamish)

"Sorry, the United States is full.  We are closed for immigration of Muslims." (153);  "Yes it brings a chuckle because it is simple, but remember foreign Muslims are UNREPENTANT murderers and traitors of your fellow American citizens." (159)

"This is why Muslims will never win, their intelligence and education, twisted by Islam is [sic] out of touch with reality.  Again, Islam is not compatible with America, and the government is going to have to do something about it.  It will probably be a tightening of law in the Immigration Reform Act.  Yep, four foreigners in Boston screwed up years of work by Hispanics on the immigration package.  It would not surprise me to see some of that hatred find its way to your Mosques.  You rub Mexicans the wrong way, they never forget." (160)

--- I stopped there on the "four foreigners" and "rubbing Mexicans the wrong way".  Shall I go on?


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The dangers of labeling people bigots, when they are concerned about being blown up, is very telling on how far people will go to keep political correctness intact.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You haven't read all the posts on this thread, have you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Obviously not.  Maybe he needs a clue or two, or twenty:
> 
> "tribalistic animals"; "third world barbarians" (post 10)
> 
> "Muslims are enemys [sic] of the American people, and should not be trusted. If there are some good ones, why are they not speaking out, and aiding the American government?  You sure don't see that on the network television news." (Post 19)
> 
> 
> "Muslims are third world animals incapable of catching up to Western thought."  (39)
> 
> "You talk like the word "racist" from you is a big sting. Not so. I have already written off your politics. The word "racist" from third worlders like you mean nothing, and to some degree they are a compliment!" (post 50)
> 
> "What foreign Muslims, and apparently all Muslims, do not understand is that in the United States it is not the courts, or the government whose opinion counts, it is the television viewers." (59)   huh??
> 
> "I could not ask for more ammunition get Americans to hate foreign Muslims. First, the mother wears traditional Muslim garb, which makes her look like a Halloween Zombie. Then she gets hysterical denying facts Americans already know. Message sent - Muslims are unstable, uneducated, violent people.  Then comes the mother's third rate acting skills.  Add it all together with their lies, and American [sic] hate foreign Muslims even more. ... You are hanging yourselves in the eyes of the world, and I could not be happier!"  (ibid)
> 
> "That is the fun of a democratic government.  Due process is whatever we say it is." (66)
> "America can destroy anyone we like without jeopardizing an American life.  Hell, the pilot can be home for supper with his wife and kids after a day of killing Muslims. Bottom line, our way or die." (67)
> "Muslims are terrorists and traitors." (91)
> "Rag heads have lost their place in America, now it is just a clean up job." (92)
> 
> "They insist on wearing their Halloween clothing on our streets everyday, making America look like a third world country.  This is no religion, it is psycho troublemakers using violence to push their Islam crap." (100);  "Rag heads are not going to twist the facts on this to the American people.  All Muslims will pay for this until they place United States over their 'so-called' Jihad religion." (101)
> 
> "Foreign Muslims are clearly terrorists, enemies of the State, and traitors." (104);  "Shoot to kill is the American way of the Second Amendment to the U. S. Constitution.  I would not have a problem with that." (109)
> 
> "European culture is American, and it will stay that way.  Obviously, Muslims played no role in the founding of the United States. Muslims got here after the work had been done by others, and began demanding rights, as usual." (113)
> 
> "Just the way we look intimidates Muslims sexually." (141)
> (-- this one is especially uh, revealing; not recommended for the squeamish)
> 
> "Sorry, the United States is full.  We are closed for immigration of Muslims." (153);  "Yes it brings a chuckle because it is simple, but remember foreign Muslims are UNREPENTANT murderers and traitors of your fellow American citizens." (159)
> 
> "This is why Muslims will never win, their intelligence and education, twisted by Islam is [sic] out of touch with reality.  Again, Islam is not compatible with America, and the government is going to have to do something about it.  It will probably be a tightening of law in the Immigration Reform Act.  Yep, four foreigners in Boston screwed up years of work by Hispanics on the immigration package.  It would not surprise me to see some of that hatred find its way to your Mosques.  You rub Mexicans the wrong way, they never forget." (160)
> 
> --- I stopped there on the "four foreigners" and "rubbing Mexicans the wrong way".  Shall I go on?
Click to expand...


Look at this nice long post, but looking past the words, what does it tell you?  The militant and foreign Muslims have an agenda to make themselves "look American" while blowing up American cities, and killing our innocent citizens.  Clearly, *Islam is not compatible with America,* and it is time to start pulling green cards.

I reread most of this thread again today.  I am bored repeating myself to every "Johnny Jihad" that comes into this thread.  My point in being here in the first place was to draw attention to Muslims trying to dominate the world. * With 281 posts and 4,176 viewings, (got to be a record), I am pleased that I have done that.* I consider myself a patriot, and a modern day Paul Revere spreading the word of Muslim danger to America.  Now it is time for Americans to make up their own minds.  I hope by now Americans realize that Muslims pose a threat to the very fiber of American life.  Television news is doing a great job of making that point every night, and the U. S. Government seems to be getting the message.

We have learned from the Russians, treat Muslims like the ignorant cattle they are, and keep them on a short leash.

I am out of here for a while, but I will monitor this thread.  My next thread will be about the 35 militant Muslim training camps in the United States.  I have links from recognized sources, and photos of the actual camps!








Sweet pic, huh?
Says it all, especially the face!

Adios, but... 




​


----------



## Pogo

Oh yeah it's a "record" Ego Boy.  Good for 141st place in posts and 222nd in views, just ahead of a thread on three fishermen leaving a Discovery TV show.   Get over yourself and put down the mirror, nice and slow.

That's within the "Current Events" section though, where it's clearly out of place.  Put it in the Rubber Room where it belongs and you can break the top 100.


----------



## S.J.

unkotare said:


> s.j. said:
> 
> 
> 
> whenever an american tells the truth about muslims..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for example?
Click to expand...

usmb.


----------



## Unkotare

S.J. said:


> unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> s.j. said:
> 
> 
> 
> whenever an american tells the truth about muslims..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for example?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> usmb.
Click to expand...



So, for all your bitching and moaning about "substance," you've got nothing.


----------



## Beachboy

Beachboy said:


> The militant and foreign Muslims have an agenda to make themselves "look American" while blowing up American cities, and killing our innocent citizens.  Clearly, *Islam is not compatible with America,* and it is time to start pulling green cards.
> 
> I reread most of this thread again today.  I am bored repeating myself to every "Johnny Jihad" that comes into this thread.  My point in being here in the first place was to draw attention to Muslims trying to dominate the world. * With 281 posts and 4,176 viewings, (got to be a record), I am pleased that I have done that.* I consider myself a patriot, and a modern day Paul Revere spreading the word of Muslim danger to America.  Now it is time for Americans to make up their own minds.  I hope by now Americans realize that Muslims pose a threat to the very fiber of American life.  Television news is doing a great job of making that point every night, and the U. S. Government seems to be getting the message.
> 
> We have learned from the Russians, treat Muslims like the ignorant cattle they are, and keep them on a short leash.
> 
> I am out of here for a while, but I will monitor this thread.  My next thread will be about the 35 militant Muslim training camps in the United States.  I have links from recognized sources, and photos of the actual camps!




Adios, but... 





​


----------



## S.J.

Unkotare said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> for example?
> 
> 
> 
> usmb.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, for all your bitching and moaning about "substance," you've got nothing.
Click to expand...

You wanted an example and I gave you one.  You don't like it because you're not really interested in substance.  I think that's pretty clear to everyone who's read any of your posts.


----------



## beagle9

In any post or Op's, I think it always best to refrain from using bad language to get ones points across, as there are good points being made here, and good study of these things, but when people show that they see themselves as superior to others, that's where it begins to break down and the points are lost.


----------



## Unkotare

S.J. said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> usmb.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, for all your bitching and moaning about "substance," you've got nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You wanted an example and I gave you one. ...
Click to expand...




No, you did not. Try again.


----------



## S.J.

Unkotare said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, for all your bitching and moaning about "substance," you've got nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> You wanted an example and I gave you one. ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you did not. Try again.
Click to expand...

Bait and troll, bait and troll, run to the mods, bait and troll.  That's your life.


----------



## Unkotare

S.J. said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> You wanted an example and I gave you one. ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you did not. Try again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bait and troll, bait and troll, run to the mods, bait and troll.  That's your life.
Click to expand...




You did not provide any example. Bitch and cry all you want, but the fact remains. Why bother going through your whole emo-act if you had no intention of backing it up?


----------



## Indofred

Third President Thomas Jefferson said:
			
		

> &#8220;&#8230; neither Pagan nor Mahomedan nor Jew ought to be excluded from the civil rights of the Commonwealth because of his religion.&#8221;








Those who attempt to restrict faith are traitors to America and the principles it was founded upon.


----------



## Indofred

We the people.



> Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;


----------



## Pogo

Indofred said:


> Third President Thomas Jefferson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> &#8220;&#8230; neither Pagan nor Mahomedan nor Jew ought to be excluded from the civil rights of the Commonwealth because of his religion.&#8221;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those who attempt to restrict faith are traitors to America and the principles it was founded upon.
Click to expand...


Thanks Fred.  Sometimes you have to state the obvious.

A Brit in southeast Asia knows our national philosophy better than the OP does. 
Probably because he's by his own admission taking his cues from television of all places.


----------



## Kondor3

I don't think the Founding Fathers anticipated waves of 'Mohammedans' positioning themselves inside the country and waiting until they'd built-up a local majority and then beginning to clamor about Sharia Law and other related issues, otherwise, they would probably have embedded a Poison Pill within the Constitution to prevent it.

Finding the right balance between observing the Constitution and preventing Islam from gaining a solid foothold in The West or the US and subsequently beginning to subvert its secular legal system over a span of decades and generations will prove tricky but the US may yet prove equal to the task. Time will tell.

Thank God (_the Judeo-Christian vision of God, mind you_   ) for separation of Church and State.

If memory serves, Separation of Mosque and State has not worked well elsewhere in the world for any considerable span of time except, perhaps, in modern Turkey, but there's always hope... ;-)


----------



## Pogo

Kondor3 said:


> I don't think the Founding Fathers anticipated waves of 'Mohammedans' positioning themselves inside the country and waiting until they'd built-up a local majority and then beginning to clamor about Sharia Law and other related issues, otherwise, they would probably have embedded a Poison Pill within the Constitution to prevent it.



Can't help noticing the parallel to:
"I don't think the Founding Fathers anticipated waves of "assault weapons" positioning themselves inside the country and waiting until they'd built-up a local majority and then beginning to clamor about a "well regulated militia" and other related issues"

Just sayin'...


----------



## Pogo

Kondor3 said:


> I don't think the Founding Fathers anticipated waves of 'Mohammedans' positioning themselves inside the country and waiting until they'd built-up a local majority and then beginning to clamor about Sharia Law and other related issues, otherwise, they would probably have embedded a Poison Pill within the Constitution to prevent it.



They did.  As you just ironically noted below; the First Amendment.
Sharia is a non starter.  It's got one use here, and that's the blogospheremongers overplaying the role of Chicken Little. 



Kondor3 said:


> Thank God (_the Judeo-Christian vision of God, mind you_   ) for separation of Church and State.



Caustic irony noted 



Kondor3 said:


> If memory serves, Separation of Mosque and State has not worked well elsewhere in the world for any considerable span of time except, perhaps, in modern Turkey, but there's always hope... ;-)



Agreed, Turkey is a good example of the potential.  On the other hand, thirteen hundred years after its own founding, Christianism didn't have much of a record of separation of church and state either.  Matter of fact it had none whatsoever; it was engorged in being the First Estate power source for the royal aristocracy and the tool of the latter to keep the populace in an inferior position; it had yet to see even dissent within its own structure in Martin Luther; and it was burning infidels alive in the public square.  The equivalent of a Turkey was still centuries off.

Such mob perversion seems to be the price of organized dogma.


----------



## Aristotle

Kondor3 said:


> I don't think the Founding Fathers anticipated waves of 'Mohammedans' positioning themselves inside the country and waiting until they'd built-up a local majority and then beginning to clamor about Sharia Law and other related issues, otherwise, they would probably have embedded a Poison Pill within the Constitution to prevent it.
> 
> Finding the right balance between observing the Constitution and preventing Islam from gaining a solid foothold in The West or the US and subsequently beginning to subvert its secular legal system over a span of decades and generations will prove tricky but the US may yet prove equal to the task. Time will tell.
> 
> Thank God (_the Judeo-Christian vision of God, mind you_   ) for separation of Church and State.
> 
> If memory serves, Separation of Mosque and State has not worked well elsewhere in the world for any considerable span of time except, perhaps, in modern Turkey, but there's always hope... ;-)





Long ago during the Saracen rule of Jerusalem Jews and Christians were allowed to have their faith and churches. Long go when the Ottoman Turks ruled Turkey after the Byzantine empire, Christians and Jews were allowed to keep their faith and their churches....


All before American Christianity....


Shall I remind you it is because of American Christianity we still have problems with racism, sexism, homophobia. 

Yes thank Judeo Christian god for that


----------



## Kondor3

Pogo said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think the Founding Fathers anticipated waves of 'Mohammedans' positioning themselves inside the country and waiting until they'd built-up a local majority and then beginning to clamor about Sharia Law and other related issues, otherwise, they would probably have embedded a Poison Pill within the Constitution to prevent it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't help noticing the parallel to:
> "I don't think the Founding Fathers anticipated waves of "assault weapons" positioning themselves inside the country and waiting until they'd built-up a local majority and then beginning to clamor about a "well regulated militia" and other related issues"
> 
> Just sayin'...
Click to expand...

*You get my vote for Worst Segue of the Week on that one, Pogo*...


----------



## Kondor3

Pogo said:


> "...thirteen hundred years after its own founding, Christianism didn't have much of a record of separation of church and state either..."


Trouble is, in the Nuclear Age, we can't afford to wait another 700 years for them to catch up.

Also, they will never have a Reformation, although they are in desperate need of one.

1. they are far too de-centralized, so there's no central focal-point for such reforms

2. their Founder pretty much explicitly locked-out changes on Day One

Don't hold your breath, waiting for meaningful and globally-broad reform in that domain.

Not gonna happen.

And, ultimately, that is going to prove problematic.

We're already seeing the first manifestations of such things.


----------



## Pogo

Kondor3 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think the Founding Fathers anticipated waves of 'Mohammedans' positioning themselves inside the country and waiting until they'd built-up a local majority and then beginning to clamor about Sharia Law and other related issues, otherwise, they would probably have embedded a Poison Pill within the Constitution to prevent it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't help noticing the parallel to:
> "I don't think the Founding Fathers anticipated waves of "assault weapons" positioning themselves inside the country and waiting until they'd built-up a local majority and then beginning to clamor about a "well regulated militia" and other related issues"
> 
> Just sayin'...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *You get my vote for Worst Segue of the Week on that one, Pogo*...
Click to expand...


Not a segue, just a comparison.  To be honest, that leapt out at me immediately when I first read your post.  Whether that's for better or worse, no comment.


----------



## Pogo

Kondor3 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> "...thirteen hundred years after its own founding, Christianism didn't have much of a record of separation of church and state either..."
> 
> 
> 
> Trouble is, in the Nuclear Age, we can't afford to wait another 700 years for them to catch up.
> 
> Also, they will never have a Reformation, although they are in desperate need of one.
> 
> 1. they are far too de-centralized, so there's no central focal-point for such reforms
> 
> 2. their Founder pretty much explicitly locked-out changes on Day One
> 
> Don't hold your breath, waiting for meaningful and globally-broad reform in that domain.
> 
> Not gonna happen.
> 
> And, ultimately, that is going to prove problematic.
> 
> We're already seeing the first manifestations of such things.
Click to expand...


And in return I'll give you my vote for worst comparison offering no distinction between the particulars.

"Central focal point"?
Why would you need a central focal point for reform?  When has that ever been necessary anywhere?  A center of power would actually work _against _reform.  No one should know that better than a people with a Christian heritage... 

Decentralized good.  Leaving the other points for later.


----------



## Aristotle

Like I said Muslims are not the problem. Its humans who take religious and political ideology to the extreme


----------



## Unkotare

Pogo said:


> Such mob perversion seems to be the price of organized dogma.





Organized 'anything' that involves human beings.


----------



## Beachboy

Indofred said:


> Those who attempt to restrict faith are traitors to America and the principles it was founded upon.





Indofred said:


> We the people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
Click to expand...


So, you believe the U. S. Constitution permits these acts? * Muslims are as nuts as they look.*











​


----------



## Aristotle

Beachboy we get your an Islamaphobe, now shut the fuck about it.


----------



## beagle9

Indofred said:


> Third President Thomas Jefferson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> &#8220;&#8230; neither Pagan nor Mahomedan nor Jew ought to be excluded from the civil rights of the Commonwealth because of his religion.&#8221;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those who attempt to restrict faith are traitors to America and the principles it was founded upon.
Click to expand...

Yes, but if it is a religion or faith that is corrupting, undermining and/or harmful to this nation, then it should be placed under serious review and scrutiny by our government and it's citizens who are and should be the government in representation there of.   It's easy really, but for those who want to complicate it, and all for the reason of slipping through the cracks somehow found within it all, then Houston we have a serious problem in America, and this by such a situation that could be going on, and for which has already hung it's calling card or name on some of these terrorist attacks, and honorably so I might add or rather it is found within their words spoken right before these attacks have taken place.


----------



## beagle9

Pogo said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think the Founding Fathers anticipated waves of 'Mohammedans' positioning themselves inside the country and waiting until they'd built-up a local majority and then beginning to clamor about Sharia Law and other related issues, otherwise, they would probably have embedded a Poison Pill within the Constitution to prevent it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't help noticing the parallel to:
> "I don't think the Founding Fathers anticipated waves of "assault weapons" positioning themselves inside the country and waiting until they'd built-up a local majority and then beginning to clamor about a "well regulated militia" and other related issues"
> 
> Just sayin'...
Click to expand...

The weapons have been in the hands of the citizens since the beginning, but somehow they began getting into the wrong hands of a section of the citizenry that should have never had these weapons in their hands to begin with.   Trying to attack law abiding citizens, just to somehow think that this will alleviate the problem of these thugs, drug lords and murderers from having or getting guns somehow, is the wrong way to go. In fact it should be that the government would be pulling itself closer to these law abiding citizens, instead of pushing away from them like it has (bringing suspicion upon the government when it does this), or when grouping them in with the bad guys in the nation like they have tried to do with the blanket effect that so many uneducated want to happen now. Kidding me right ?


----------



## Pogo

beagle9 said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Third President Thomas Jefferson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  neither Pagan nor Mahomedan nor Jew ought to be excluded from the civil rights of the Commonwealth because of his religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those who attempt to restrict faith are traitors to America and the principles it was founded upon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, but if it is a religion or faith that is corrupting, undermining and/or harmful to this nation, then it should be placed under serious review and scrutiny by our government and it's citizens who are and should be the government in representation there of.   It's easy really, but for those who want to complicate it, and all for the reason of slipping through the cracks somehow found within it all, then Houston we have a serious problem in America, and this by such a situation that could be going on, and for which has already hung it's calling card or name on some of these terrorist attacks, and honorably so I might add or rather it is found within their words spoken right before these attacks have taken place.
Click to expand...


"Yes but" nothing.  Once we start with the exceptions we have abandoned the principle.

Nobody said it would be easy or convenient.  When we start tossing around adjectives like "harmful", "corrupting" and "undermining", not only are we in the realm of the subjective but we beg the question, "harmful" according to who?  That's a slippery slope far, *far *worse than your Houston problem.

Take this thread.  Please.  The OP oozed in here trying desperately to sell the story that the Boston Marathon bombing was committed by a religion rather than by humans.  Once you let that kind of thinking out of Pandora's Box, all hell breaks loose.  It's not hard to see why.


----------



## beagle9

Aristotle said:


> Beachboy we get your an Islamaphobe, now shut the fuck about it.


Why should he shut up? He is concerned for his nation, and for what it is transitioning into as found in the violence that is erupting on the streets in ways that we have not known since the 60's turmoil. 

I would hate that he would shut up because someone like you tells him to. Kidding me right? Or is this putting to much of a spotlight on Obama and the administration maybe, otherwise when these things get discussed like they do here or there ?


----------



## Pogo

beagle9 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy we get your an Islamaphobe, now shut the fuck about it.
> 
> 
> 
> Why should he shut up? He is concerned for his nation, and for what it is transitioning into as found in the violence that is erupting on the streets in ways that we have not known since the 60's turmoil.
> 
> I would hate that he would shut up because someone like you tells him to. Kidding me right? Or is this putting to much of a spotlight on Obama and the administration maybe, otherwise when these things get discussed like they do here or there ?
Click to expand...


All Belchboy is concerned for is his own bigotry.  By the way I compiled a (partial) compendium for you on that topic since you seemed to raise the question of its existence.

But trust me, he's not "concerned" for any ideal higher than that of trolling.  Nobody wants to hear any more of his self-absorbed racist horseshit.  Worry about your own posting.


----------



## Unkotare

You really haven't read this thread from the beginning, have you beagle?


----------



## beagle9

Pogo said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those who attempt to restrict faith are traitors to America and the principles it was founded upon.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but if it is a religion or faith that is corrupting, undermining and/or harmful to this nation, then it should be placed under serious review and scrutiny by our government and it's citizens who are and should be the government in representation there of.   It's easy really, but for those who want to complicate it, and all for the reason of slipping through the cracks somehow found within it all, then Houston we have a serious problem in America, and this by such a situation that could be going on, and for which has already hung it's calling card or name on some of these terrorist attacks, and honorably so I might add or rather it is found within their words spoken right before these attacks have taken place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Yes but" nothing. * Once we start with the exceptions we have abandoned the principle.*
> 
> Nobody said it would be easy or convenient.  When we start tossing around adjectives like "harmful", "corrupting" and "undermining", not only are we in the realm of the subjective but we beg the question, "harmful" according to who?  That's a slippery slope far, *far *worse than your Houston problem.
> 
> Take this thread.  Please.  The OP oozed in here trying desperately to sell the story that the Boston Marathon bombing was committed by a religion rather than by humans.  Once you let that kind of thinking out of Pandora's Box, all hell breaks loose.  It's not hard to see why.
Click to expand...


The only way to abandon the principle, is if the persons that the principle is being applied to (Drops the Ball), and begins attacking others based on their own beliefs and principles, in which do not co-inside with our American born principles, just as we figure them to be in our constitution as is written for us. 

At this point they have created their own principles that exist outside of the founding principles in which we have for us here or at our disposal to provide them with as well as ourselves with.

Harmful according to whom you asked ?- Uh how about according to the victims and their families that have now suffered great loss in their lives..


----------



## Pogo

Unkotare said:


> You really haven't read this thread from the beginning, have you beagle?



None so blind as he who will not read the thread, yet wants to opine as if he has....  

Again- the Cliff's Notes


----------



## beagle9

Unkotare said:


> You really haven't read this thread from the beginning, have you beagle?


No, i'm just picking up on some of the post and comments being made, and trying to see some rational to the comments or maybe try and give an adjective view from my point as to what some have stated here.. Should I have to read the entire thread to jump in late and make some points here and there within the thread ? My grandpa taught me the art of reading between the lines, in which saves me a lot of headache by having to read so much ya know ?  I guess you feel I am not understanding the character dealt with or who had wrote this piece, but I have been following along on the rebuttals and debates as best I can, as it is an interesting subject to me also.


----------



## Pogo

beagle9 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but if it is a religion or faith that is corrupting, undermining and/or harmful to this nation, then it should be placed under serious review and scrutiny by our government and it's citizens who are and should be the government in representation there of.   It's easy really, but for those who want to complicate it, and all for the reason of slipping through the cracks somehow found within it all, then Houston we have a serious problem in America, and this by such a situation that could be going on, and for which has already hung it's calling card or name on some of these terrorist attacks, and honorably so I might add or rather it is found within their words spoken right before these attacks have taken place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Yes but" nothing. * Once we start with the exceptions we have abandoned the principle.*
> 
> Nobody said it would be easy or convenient.  When we start tossing around adjectives like "harmful", "corrupting" and "undermining", not only are we in the realm of the subjective but we beg the question, "harmful" according to who?  That's a slippery slope far, *far *worse than your Houston problem.
> 
> Take this thread.  Please.  The OP oozed in here trying desperately to sell the story that the Boston Marathon bombing was committed by a religion rather than by humans.  Once you let that kind of thinking out of Pandora's Box, all hell breaks loose.  It's not hard to see why.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only way to abandon the principle, is if the persons that the principle is being applied to (Drops the Ball), and begins attacking others based on their own beliefs and principles, in which do not co-inside with our American born principles, just as we figure them to be in our constitution as is written for us.
> 
> At this point they have created their own principles that exist outside of the founding principles in which we have for us here or at our disposal to provide them with as well as ourselves with.
> 
> Harmful according to whom you asked ?- Uh how about according to the victims and their families that have now suffered great loss in their lives..
Click to expand...


Nope, can't do that.  You've conflated the Constitution with its beneficiaries.

It's _*our *_principle -- not theirs.  *They *don't get to change *our *principle; *we *hold it.  A principle is a principle; either we hold it, or we do not.  Again, nobody said it's always convenient.  If it were, there would be no need to write it into the Constitution.  If you want to start making "exceptions" and "principles that exist outside of the founding principles", then there's no meaning to the Constitution at all.

A constitution is a structural framework -- the manifestation of the principles we believe in.  If you want to start removing this leg here, that leg there from that structure, your framework collapses.  And if that's what you intend to do, then you never had a structure to start with.


----------



## beagle9

Pogo said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Yes but" nothing. * Once we start with the exceptions we have abandoned the principle.*
> 
> Nobody said it would be easy or convenient.  When we start tossing around adjectives like "harmful", "corrupting" and "undermining", not only are we in the realm of the subjective but we beg the question, "harmful" according to who?  That's a slippery slope far, *far *worse than your Houston problem.
> 
> Take this thread.  Please.  The OP oozed in here trying desperately to sell the story that the Boston Marathon bombing was committed by a religion rather than by humans.  Once you let that kind of thinking out of Pandora's Box, all hell breaks loose.  It's not hard to see why.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only way to abandon the principle, is if the persons that the principle is being applied to (Drops the Ball), and begins attacking others based on their own beliefs and principles, in which do not co-inside with our American born principles, just as we figure them to be in our constitution as is written for us.
> 
> At this point they have created their own principles that exist outside of the founding principles in which we have for us here or at our disposal to provide them with as well as ourselves with.
> 
> Harmful according to whom you asked ?- Uh how about according to the victims and their families that have now suffered great loss in their lives..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope, can't do that.  You've conflated the Constitution with its beneficiaries.
> 
> It's _*our *_principle -- not theirs.  *They *don't get to change *our *principle; *we *hold it.  A principle is a principle; either we hold it, or we do not.  Again, nobody said it's always convenient.  If it were, there would be no need to write it into the Constitution.  If you want to start making "exceptions" and "principles that exist outside of the founding principles", then there's no meaning to the Constitution at all.
> 
> A constitution is a structural framework -- the manifestation of the principles we believe in.  If you want to start removing this leg here, that leg there from that structure, your framework collapses.  And if that's what you intend to do, then you never had a structure to start with.
Click to expand...

I think I am on the same page as you, but when read what you wrote in the context you had wrote it earlier in, I took it to mean something different, especially when you wrote about according to who is it harmful, then I applied the part about the victims at the hands of their killers whom do not abide by our constitution, and even hate it actually, yet here they are living among us now while being protected under the veil of our own constitution in which they use to walk about freely up under, even though possibly our enemy. I thought you were making a case to honor all religions with the use of the constitution no matter what, and without exception. This is where I began my rebuttal.. I apologize for miss-understanding you or did I ?


----------



## Pogo

beagle9 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only way to abandon the principle, is if the persons that the principle is being applied to (Drops the Ball), and begins attacking others based on their own beliefs and principles, in which do not co-inside with our American born principles, just as we figure them to be in our constitution as is written for us.
> 
> At this point they have created their own principles that exist outside of the founding principles in which we have for us here or at our disposal to provide them with as well as ourselves with.
> 
> Harmful according to whom you asked ?- Uh how about according to the victims and their families that have now suffered great loss in their lives..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, can't do that.  You've conflated the Constitution with its beneficiaries.
> 
> It's _*our *_principle -- not theirs.  *They *don't get to change *our *principle; *we *hold it.  A principle is a principle; either we hold it, or we do not.  Again, nobody said it's always convenient.  If it were, there would be no need to write it into the Constitution.  If you want to start making "exceptions" and "principles that exist outside of the founding principles", then there's no meaning to the Constitution at all.
> 
> A constitution is a structural framework -- the manifestation of the principles we believe in.  If you want to start removing this leg here, that leg there from that structure, your framework collapses.  And if that's what you intend to do, then you never had a structure to start with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think I am on the same page as you, but when read what you wrote in the context you had wrote it earlier in, I took it to me something different, especially when you wrote about according to who is it harmful, then I applied the part about the victims at the hands of their killers whom do not abide by our constitution, and even hate it actually, yet here they are living among us now. I thought you were making a case to honor all religions with the use of the constitution no matter what, and without exception. This is where I began my rebuttal.. I apologize for miss-understanding you...
Click to expand...



Not at all, I'm not sure you did misunderstand; it sounds like you had it basically.  Not to "honor" all or any religion, but just to let them be.

Just a clarification, the Constitution is not for _people _to abide by; it's for the _government _to abide by.

By the way, does that graphic I posted that keeps getting copied, convey its meaning?  Do you get what it's there for?  That's a Nazi-era anti-Jewish propaganda poster, used to demonize a particular class of people in order to eliminate them.  In other words the same thing the OP has been doing with this thread.  That's the problem all of us from all over the political spectrum have with this bigot thread.


----------



## beagle9

Pogo said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, can't do that.  You've conflated the Constitution with its beneficiaries.
> 
> It's _*our *_principle -- not theirs.  *They *don't get to change *our *principle; *we *hold it.  A principle is a principle; either we hold it, or we do not.  Again, nobody said it's always convenient.  If it were, there would be no need to write it into the Constitution.  If you want to start making "exceptions" and "principles that exist outside of the founding principles", then there's no meaning to the Constitution at all.
> 
> A constitution is a structural framework -- the manifestation of the principles we believe in.  If you want to start removing this leg here, that leg there from that structure, your framework collapses.  And if that's what you intend to do, then you never had a structure to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> I think I am on the same page as you, but when read what you wrote in the context you had wrote it earlier in, I took it to me something different, especially when you wrote about according to who is it harmful, then I applied the part about the victims at the hands of their killers whom do not abide by our constitution, and even hate it actually, yet here they are living among us now. I thought you were making a case to honor all religions with the use of the constitution no matter what, and without exception. This is where I began my rebuttal.. I apologize for miss-understanding you...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all, I'm not sure you did misunderstand; it sounds like you had it basically.  Not to "honor" all or any religion, but just to let them be.
> 
> Just a clarification, the Constitution is not for _people _to abide by; it's for the _government _to abide by.
> 
> By the way, does that graphic I posted that keeps getting copied, convey its meaning?  Do you get what it's there for?  That's a Nazi-era anti-Jewish propaganda poster, used to demonize a particular class of people in order to eliminate them.  In other words the same thing the OP has been doing with this thread.  That's the problem all of us from all over the political spectrum have with this bigot thread.
Click to expand...

OK, it's cool to just let a religion be, but when it promotes the killing of infidels meaning us from within our own borders, and it begins to make good on such beliefs or ideals by the implementation of such acts (lets not for get those honor killings either that have taken place), then it is no longer protected or falls under what the constitution had written for religious activities or regarding the religions in which it was intended for (IMHO) or should such a religion be recognized by the American government at all or it shouldn't be until it cleans up it's act. How many more attempts at bombings or actual bombings must we chance to them, if they are different than the religions we have had here since the beginning, and have been living in peace pretty much with since the beginning ? I don't think there are to many now whom want to take to many more chances with a radical wing of this religion, and the problem is, is that they (the bad ones) undoubtedly can live within the religious confounds of the religion, until they (the radical ones) strike, so what to do, Oh what to do ? If we can't get a group of people to police themselves, and to let others know who is amongst them that are bad or a threat, then Houston we have a major problem now don't we ?


----------



## Unkotare

beagle9 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You really haven't read this thread from the beginning, have you beagle?
> 
> 
> 
> No, i'm just picking up on some of the post and comments being made.
Click to expand...




Go ahead and read the whole thing, then see how you feel about the OP.


----------



## beagle9

It's always been that Americans will give up the bad that are amongst them, and that is the key to a strength in society and the entire nation, but as we gain more and more groups whom aren't willing to do this, then the nation becomes more and more dangerous in that respect. The Oklahoma bomber was a situation where Americans didn't give up these two until it was to late as well as some others, and this is where we should have begun rethinking about who we have around us, what they are thinking, how mad they are etc. yet do this all in the confounds of freedom and respect. The government setting itself apart from the people has become another problem, where as it has turned towards corporations as it's primary interest and people, and it has abandoned the unity between them and the ordinary people, so in this we also have gotten what we have gotten out of that situation as well.  I just wonder where this ship is heading next and what we should be gaining from all this, and then looking to steer her into better waters somehow. It's hard to see that happening with all that is going on, but we can still dream can't we? The main thing is having groups that won't give up the bad that are among them, and that will always be a problem it seems anymore, especially as these groups who are like this grow and grow and grow in numbers among us now.


----------



## Pogo

beagle9 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think I am on the same page as you, but when read what you wrote in the context you had wrote it earlier in, I took it to me something different, especially when you wrote about according to who is it harmful, then I applied the part about the victims at the hands of their killers whom do not abide by our constitution, and even hate it actually, yet here they are living among us now. I thought you were making a case to honor all religions with the use of the constitution no matter what, and without exception. This is where I began my rebuttal.. I apologize for miss-understanding you...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all, I'm not sure you did misunderstand; it sounds like you had it basically.  Not to "honor" all or any religion, but just to let them be.
> 
> Just a clarification, the Constitution is not for _people _to abide by; it's for the _government _to abide by.
> 
> By the way, does that graphic I posted that keeps getting copied, convey its meaning?  Do you get what it's there for?  That's a Nazi-era anti-Jewish propaganda poster, used to demonize a particular class of people in order to eliminate them.  In other words the same thing the OP has been doing with this thread.  That's the problem all of us from all over the political spectrum have with this bigot thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, it's cool to just let a religion be, but *when it promotes the killing of infidels meaning us from within our own borders*, and it begins to make good on such beliefs or ideals by the implementation of such acts (lets not for get those honor killings either that have taken place), then it is no longer protected or falls under what the constitution had written for religious activities or regarding the religions in which it was intended for (IMHO) or should such a religion be recognized by the American government at all or it shouldn't be until it cleans up it's act. How many more attempts at bombings or actual bombings must we chance to them, if they are different than the religions we have had here since the beginning, and have been living in peace pretty much with since the beginning ? I don't think there are to many now whom want to take to many more chances with a radical wing of this religion, and the problem is, is that they can live within the religious confounds of the religion until they  (the radicals)strike, so what to do what to do ? If we can't get a group of people to police themselves, and to let others know who is amongst them that are bad or a threat, then Houston we have a major problem now don't we ?
Click to expand...


You may be starting from a false premise here (in bold).  Again, two assholes (not a religion) committed the bombing in Boston.  Just as an asshole with a Ryder truck committed the bombing in Oklahoma City (not a religion) and another asshole (not a religion) bombed an abortion clinic in Birmingham, etc etc etc.  The OP in his bigoted blindness wants to pin Boston on "foreign Muslims" but there's no justification whatsoever for that basis.  He just wants to persecute his target because he's never met one and spends all his time immersed in television.

He would actually try to sell the idea, for example, that "Islam" committed 9/11 even though the perps clearly had a political agenda.  Yet he won't pin Scott Roeder on Christianism or the Unabomber on atheism, so his logic applies only to his despised group.  Which is why it's illegitimate logic, and why the premise is inoperative.


----------



## beagle9

Unkotare said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You really haven't read this thread from the beginning, have you beagle?
> 
> 
> 
> No, i'm just picking up on some of the post and comments being made.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go ahead and read the whole thing, then see how you feel about the OP.
Click to expand...

Uh Oh, so you feel by reading the whole thread, that it will make me want to get off of this thread and fight the good fight somewhere else for Americans and America ? Could be, as I have not read the whole thread that's for sure...Yikes...... I'll hang around as long as you all will, then I will bolt when you all do, is that OK ?


----------



## beagle9

Pogo said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all, I'm not sure you did misunderstand; it sounds like you had it basically.  Not to "honor" all or any religion, but just to let them be.
> 
> Just a clarification, the Constitution is not for _people _to abide by; it's for the _government _to abide by.
> 
> By the way, does that graphic I posted that keeps getting copied, convey its meaning?  Do you get what it's there for?  That's a Nazi-era anti-Jewish propaganda poster, used to demonize a particular class of people in order to eliminate them.  In other words the same thing the OP has been doing with this thread.  That's the problem all of us from all over the political spectrum have with this bigot thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, it's cool to just let a religion be, but *when it promotes the killing of infidels meaning us from within our own borders*, and it begins to make good on such beliefs or ideals by the implementation of such acts (lets not for get those honor killings either that have taken place), then it is no longer protected or falls under what the constitution had written for religious activities or regarding the religions in which it was intended for (IMHO) or should such a religion be recognized by the American government at all or it shouldn't be until it cleans up it's act. How many more attempts at bombings or actual bombings must we chance to them, if they are different than the religions we have had here since the beginning, and have been living in peace pretty much with since the beginning ? I don't think there are to many now whom want to take to many more chances with a radical wing of this religion, and the problem is, is that they can live within the religious confounds of the religion until they  (the radicals)strike, so what to do what to do ? If we can't get a group of people to police themselves, and to let others know who is amongst them that are bad or a threat, then Houston we have a major problem now don't we ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You may be starting from a false premise here (in bold).  Again, two assholes (not a religion) committed the bombing in Boston.  Just as an asshole with a Ryder truck committed the bombing in Oklahoma City (not a religion) and another asshole (not a religion) bombed an abortion clinic in Birmingham, etc etc etc.  The OP in his bigoted blindness wants to pin Boston on "foreign Muslims" but there's no justification whatsoever for that basis.  He just wants to persecute his target because he's never met one and spends all his time immersed in television.
> 
> He would actually try to sell the idea, for example, that "Islam" committed 9/11 even though the perps clearly had a political agenda.  Yet he won't pin Scott Roeder on Christianism or the Unabomber on atheism, so his logic applies only to his despised group.  Which is why it's illegitimate logic, and why the premise is inoperative.
Click to expand...

I think that all see themselves as representatives of a group or some cause within a group, whether it be religious or not, and they see themselves as being under siege in their beliefs or could be in their religious beliefs if be the case maybe or possibly, so the establishment of evidence and the facts in which leads to the truth should be priority, and to see how deep does it all go by investigation of, then the judgments can be made properly and so on and so forth, and this once find out all the details and evidence in such situations. Then it's up to the group who had been falsely represented to disown and disavow themselves from such acts and such radicalness that has gained some sort of momentum among their group or groups in false representation of or not. If a group will not separate themselves from these folks who do such bad things or think such bad things outwardly, then you find that you have a group who is supportive and cheering these people, even when they may not have direct contact with them or rather they do by evidence of.


----------



## Pogo

beagle9 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, i'm just picking up on some of the post and comments being made.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go ahead and read the whole thing, then see how you feel about the OP.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Uh Oh, so you feel by reading the whole thread, that it will make me want to get off of this thread and fight the good fight somewhere else for Americans and America ? Could be, as I have not read the whole thread that's for sure...Yikes...... I'll hang around as long as you all will, then I will bolt when you all do, is that OK ?
Click to expand...


No, he wants you to understand where the OP's head is, so that you don't look silly defending him.  That's why I posted that compendium for you.  Are you afraid to read it?


----------



## Pogo

beagle9 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, it's cool to just let a religion be, but *when it promotes the killing of infidels meaning us from within our own borders*, and it begins to make good on such beliefs or ideals by the implementation of such acts (lets not for get those honor killings either that have taken place), then it is no longer protected or falls under what the constitution had written for religious activities or regarding the religions in which it was intended for (IMHO) or should such a religion be recognized by the American government at all or it shouldn't be until it cleans up it's act. How many more attempts at bombings or actual bombings must we chance to them, if they are different than the religions we have had here since the beginning, and have been living in peace pretty much with since the beginning ? I don't think there are to many now whom want to take to many more chances with a radical wing of this religion, and the problem is, is that they can live within the religious confounds of the religion until they  (the radicals)strike, so what to do what to do ? If we can't get a group of people to police themselves, and to let others know who is amongst them that are bad or a threat, then Houston we have a major problem now don't we ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You may be starting from a false premise here (in bold).  Again, two assholes (not a religion) committed the bombing in Boston.  Just as an asshole with a Ryder truck committed the bombing in Oklahoma City (not a religion) and another asshole (not a religion) bombed an abortion clinic in Birmingham, etc etc etc.  The OP in his bigoted blindness wants to pin Boston on "foreign Muslims" but there's no justification whatsoever for that basis.  He just wants to persecute his target because he's never met one and spends all his time immersed in television.
> 
> He would actually try to sell the idea, for example, that "Islam" committed 9/11 even though the perps clearly had a political agenda.  Yet he won't pin Scott Roeder on Christianism or the Unabomber on atheism, so his logic applies only to his despised group.  Which is why it's illegitimate logic, and why the premise is inoperative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think that all see themselves as representatives of a group or some cause within a group, whether it be religious or not, and they see themselves as being under siege in their beliefs or could be in their religious beliefs if be the case maybe or possibly, so the establishment of evidence and the facts in which leads to the truth should be priority, and to see how deep does it all go by investigation of, then the judgments can be made properly and so on and so forth, and this once find out all the details and evidence in such situations. Then it's up to the group who had been falsely represented to disown and disavow themselves from such acts and such radicalness that has gained some sort of momentum among their group or groups in false representation of or not. If a group will not separate themselves from these folks who do such bad things or think such bad things outwardly, then you find that you have a group who is supportive and cheering these people, even when they may not have direct contact with them or rather they do by evidence of.
Click to expand...


What you're saying here if I digest all that correctly, is "guilty until proven innocent".  Or in more detail,  "guilty until they disavow their own religion even though we, not they, determined it to be a causation".

And that's BS.


----------



## Unkotare

beagle9 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, i'm just picking up on some of the post and comments being made.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go ahead and read the whole thing, then see how you feel about the OP.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Uh Oh, so you feel by reading the whole thread, that it will make me want to get off of this thread ...
Click to expand...




NO, it will give you a clue as to what and who you are defending.


----------



## beagle9

Pogo said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> You may be starting from a false premise here (in bold).  Again, two assholes (not a religion) committed the bombing in Boston.  Just as an asshole with a Ryder truck committed the bombing in Oklahoma City (not a religion) and another asshole (not a religion) bombed an abortion clinic in Birmingham, etc etc etc.  The OP in his bigoted blindness wants to pin Boston on "foreign Muslims" but there's no justification whatsoever for that basis.  He just wants to persecute his target because he's never met one and spends all his time immersed in television.
> 
> He would actually try to sell the idea, for example, that "Islam" committed 9/11 even though the perps clearly had a political agenda.  Yet he won't pin Scott Roeder on Christianism or the Unabomber on atheism, so his logic applies only to his despised group.  Which is why it's illegitimate logic, and why the premise is inoperative.
> 
> 
> 
> I think that all see themselves as representatives of a group or some cause within a group, whether it be religious or not, and they see themselves as being under siege in their beliefs or could be in their religious beliefs if be the case maybe or possibly, so the establishment of evidence and the facts in which leads to the truth should be priority, and to see how deep does it all go by investigation of, then the judgments can be made properly and so on and so forth, and this once find out all the details and evidence in such situations. Then it's up to the group who had been falsely represented to disown and disavow themselves from such acts and such radicalness that has gained some sort of momentum among their group or groups in false representation of or not. If a group will not separate themselves from these folks who do such bad things or think such bad things outwardly, then you find that you have a group who is supportive and cheering these people, even when they may not have direct contact with them or rather they do by evidence of.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What you're saying here if I digest all that correctly, is "guilty until proven innocent".  Or in more detail,  "guilty until they disavow their own religion even though we, not they, determined it to be a causation".
> 
> And that's BS.
Click to expand...

How hard is it to separate ones self from a radical who has high jacked your religion or cause to commit holy war on the infidels or even religious war on the U.S. Government for that matter, example in the case of Oklahoma bombing once all the facts were in so on and so forth ? It's actually easy to separate oneself or your group from a person who may have used your religion or your groups cause to bring harm upon somebody or many in this nation, and everyone will know instantly when this happens, and will except it when it happens. I know I would as long as it is backed up.


----------



## testarosa

I'm new here and this is why I love America, this is freedom of speech at it's finest.  lmao and getting acclimated and getting my courage up before I jump in and get my a$$ chewed off from one side or the other.


----------



## beagle9

Unkotare said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Go ahead and read the whole thing, then see how you feel about the OP.
> 
> 
> 
> Uh Oh, so you feel by reading the whole thread, that it will make me want to get off of this thread ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NO, it will give you a clue as to what and who you are defending.
Click to expand...

I don't think I am defending anyone really, but just trying to make sense of it as best I can. I rather just came in on some post that were making some weird claims or rebuttals to others who are posting, and that is where I stepped in, but you could be right that I am on a thread that is not very honorable, and for that I will leave when you and pogo do. Hey what makes you think that I am not helping here also ? I may be changing the original OP's perspective on things who knows ?


----------



## beagle9

Gotta go for now, but have fun anyways... I am under the weather right now, so much so that I can barely hold my head up....yikes.... It's been interesting, but now it's time for some cough syrup and rest.


----------



## Kondor3

Take care, Beags...


----------



## S.J.

It's interesting to watch the libs talk about religious freedom when it comes to muslims coming to the U.S. to kill Americans, and then defend the Obama administration's routine attacks on the first, second, and fourth amendments.  Sounds like gross hypocrisy to me.


----------



## Aristotle

S.J. said:


> It's interesting to watch the libs talk about religious freedom when it comes to muslims coming to the U.S. to kill Americans, and then defend the Obama administration's routine attacks on the first, second, and fourth amendments.  Sounds like gross hypocrisy to me.



Why aren't there more Muslim attacks in Michigan seeing how Michigan has the highest percentage of Muslims in the United States?


----------



## S.J.

Aristotle said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's interesting to watch the libs talk about religious freedom when it comes to muslims coming to the U.S. to kill Americans, and then defend the Obama administration's routine attacks on the first, second, and fourth amendments.  Sounds like gross hypocrisy to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why aren't there more Muslim attacks in Michigan seeing how Michigan has the highest percentage of Muslims in the United States?
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with what i said?


----------



## Aristotle

S.J. said:


> It's interesting to watch the libs talk about religious freedom *when it comes to muslims coming to the U.S. to kill Americans*, and then defend the Obama administration's routine attacks on the first, second, and fourth amendments.  Sounds like gross hypocrisy to me.



Its relevant when you mention Muslims coming to the U.S to kill Americans. I want to challenge this by asking you with Michigan having the largest muslim population in the United States, why aren't there more attacks in Michigan if Muslims are coming to the United States to kill Americans.


----------



## Aristotle

*Crickets*


----------



## S.J.

Aristotle said:


> *Crickets*


What do you mean, "crickets"?  Just because there are more muslims in Michigan than everywhere else, doesn't mean there would be more violence in Michigan.  You're desperate to make a point but you've made no point.


----------



## Kondor3

Aristotle said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's interesting to watch the libs talk about religious freedom when it comes to muslims coming to the U.S. to kill Americans, and then defend the Obama administration's routine attacks on the first, second, and fourth amendments.  Sounds like gross hypocrisy to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why aren't there more Muslim attacks in Michigan seeing how Michigan has the highest percentage of Muslims in the United States?
Click to expand...

Ummmmm... because they're a tiny minority and don't dare show their true colors yet?


----------



## Aristotle

Kondor3 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's interesting to watch the libs talk about religious freedom when it comes to muslims coming to the U.S. to kill Americans, and then defend the Obama administration's routine attacks on the first, second, and fourth amendments.  Sounds like gross hypocrisy to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why aren't there more Muslim attacks in Michigan seeing how Michigan has the highest percentage of Muslims in the United States?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ummmmm... because they're a tiny minority and don't dare show their true colors yet?
Click to expand...


Wait they're a minority and wont show their true colors?

I don't understand, I thought Muslims hate this country? Surely attacks in Michigan would be prominent because there is a heavy population.


----------



## Kondor3

Aristotle said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why aren't there more Muslim attacks in Michigan seeing how Michigan has the highest percentage of Muslims in the United States?
> 
> 
> 
> Ummmmm... because they're a tiny minority and don't dare show their true colors yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wait they're a minority and wont show their true colors?
> 
> I don't understand, I thought Muslims hate this country? Surely attacks in Michigan would be prominent because there is a heavy population.
Click to expand...

Not heavy enough to tip the scales, as is beginning to happen in parts of the U.K. such as Londinistan.


----------



## Aristotle

S.J. said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Crickets*
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean, "crickets"?  Just because there are more muslims in Michigan than everywhere else, doesn't mean there would be more violence in Michigan.  You're desperate to make a point but you've made no point.
Click to expand...


Because you allude to a generalization that does not represent Muslim opinion. Muslims don't come here to terrorize Americans. Muslims, who migrate here want a life like any other U.S citizen.


----------



## Aristotle

Kondor3 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ummmmm... because they're a tiny minority and don't dare show their true colors yet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait they're a minority and wont show their true colors?
> 
> I don't understand, I thought Muslims hate this country? Surely attacks in Michigan would be prominent because there is a heavy population.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not heavy enough to tip the scales, as is beginning to happen in parts of the U.K. such as Londinistan.
Click to expand...


I don't understand there are millions. 


There is a substantial community here in California in Orange County.

Terrorism is fought using splinter cell groups.

The point I'm making is you don't need 20 million to make a substantial generalized claim, even though S.J was making the claim that Muslims are coming over here to kill Americans.

The point is if the goal of Muslims is to kill Americans

1)Why do Muslims flock to Michigan?

2) Why aren't there reports of Muslim hostility in Michigan?

If we are going to make a generalized claim about Muslim immigrants we need statistics to back up these facts.


----------



## S.J.

Aristotle said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Crickets*
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean, "crickets"?  Just because there are more muslims in Michigan than everywhere else, doesn't mean there would be more violence in Michigan.  You're desperate to make a point but you've made no point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because you allude to a generalization that does not represent Muslim opinion. Muslims don't come here to terrorize Americans. Muslims, who migrate here want a life like any other U.S citizen.
Click to expand...

No they don't.  They want to be muslims, not Americans.  They like the freedom to practice their religion but when others from their religion commit acts of terrorism against our citizens, they say NOTHING.  They are NOT Americans.


----------



## Aristotle

S.J. said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean, "crickets"?  Just because there are more muslims in Michigan than everywhere else, doesn't mean there would be more violence in Michigan.  You're desperate to make a point but you've made no point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because you allude to a generalization that does not represent Muslim opinion. Muslims don't come here to terrorize Americans. Muslims, who migrate here want a life like any other U.S citizen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *No they don't.*  They want to be muslims, not Americans.  They like the freedom to practice their religion but when others from their religion commit acts of terrorism against our citizens, they say NOTHING.  They are NOT Americans.
Click to expand...


Every culture that migrates here retains their culture because that is a phenomenon that happens when one person migrates from one land to another. There is no "one identity" in America because even Americans don't act the same.

You keep assuming Muslims say nothing. Perhaps it would benefit you to stop generalizing because all you are doing is making assumptions.


----------



## Kondor3

We have only to look at the experience of France and the United Kingdom and Germany to understand that Muslim immigrants do not 'assimilate' into their adoptive countries anywhere near as well or as completely as their their counterparts from other cultures and belief-systems do...

We (America) will not close the door to them, but we will pay a price for it later... a manageable price, mind you, but a considerable price nontheless, with respect to culture-clash and Sharia Law and similar concerns... we'll figure it out... that, or we'll end-up kicking them out if it gets bad enough.


----------



## Franticfrank

For those of us that migrate to Saudi Arabia, we have to adopt their culture to a larger extent. Those of us who don't are treated with immense hostility. Integration is extremely difficult but anybody who emigrates really needs to make an effort to both integrate and appreciate the culture of their chosen destination. 

In Germany, many immigrants can't even speak German. And there's no easy way to address that problem. Such people will simply prove a liability to the state in later years.


----------



## S.J.

I don't recall hearing any muslims coming out publicly to condemn the terrorists who flew the planes into the buildings on 9/11.  I heard a few of them blame the Jews but other than that, silence.


----------



## Indofred

S.J. said:


> I don't recall hearing any muslims coming out publicly to condemn the terrorists who flew the planes into the buildings on 9/11.  I heard a few of them blame the Jews but other than that, silence.



Only because you don't want to listen.


----------



## S.J.

Indofred said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall hearing any muslims coming out publicly to condemn the terrorists who flew the planes into the buildings on 9/11.  I heard a few of them blame the Jews but other than that, silence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only because you don't want to listen.
Click to expand...

Let's see some then.


----------



## Indofred

S.J. said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall hearing any muslims coming out publicly to condemn the terrorists who flew the planes into the buildings on 9/11.  I heard a few of them blame the Jews but other than that, silence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only because you don't want to listen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's see some then.
Click to expand...


9/11 Terrorist Attack - Muslims Condemn 9/11 Terrorist Attack



> In the aftermath of the violence and horror of 9/11, criticisms were made that Muslim leaders and organizations were not outspoken enough in denouncing acts of terrorism. Muslims are constantly perplexed by this accusation, as we heard (and continue to hear) nothing but unequivocal and unified condemnations by the leaders of our community, both in the United States and worldwide. But for some reason, people are not listening.



To hear a sound, you must open your ears and your mind.
Of course, you don't want to hear because you prefer to hate and the sound of Muslims rejecting terrorism ruins your preferred 'truth'


----------



## Pogo

S.J. said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall hearing any muslims coming out publicly to condemn the terrorists who flew the planes into the buildings on 9/11.  I heard a few of them blame the Jews but other than that, silence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only because you don't want to listen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's see some then.
Click to expand...


This kind of post reminds me so much of a simple but illustrative exchange I once witnessed:

8-year-old boy to his mother:
_*"Mo-om!! I can't find my shirt!!"*_

Mother: "Did ya *look*??"

8-year-old boy: "No...."


----------



## S.J.

Indofred said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only because you don't want to listen.
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see some then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 9/11 Terrorist Attack - Muslims Condemn 9/11 Terrorist Attack
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the aftermath of the violence and horror of 9/11, criticisms were made that Muslim leaders and organizations were not outspoken enough in denouncing acts of terrorism. Muslims are constantly perplexed by this accusation, as we heard (and continue to hear) nothing but unequivocal and unified condemnations by the leaders of our community, both in the United States and worldwide. But for some reason, people are not listening.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To hear a sound, you must open your ears and your mind.
> Of course, you don't want to hear because you prefer to hate and the sound of Muslims rejecting terrorism ruins your preferred 'truth'
Click to expand...

Your links don't contain any videos of muslims condemning their own, just people SAYING muslims condemn terrorism.  I've heard a lot of muslims and saw a lot of them on the talk shows blaming Israel, and our support of Israel for 9/11, but I didn't see or hear any flat out condemnation of their fellow muslims, only justifications.  I heard a lot of comments like "I condemn the killing of innocent people, but...".  Then they go on to make excuses for them.  I've seen a lot of that right here on this site.


----------



## Indofred

s.j. said:


> indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> s.j. said:
> 
> 
> 
> let's see some then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 terrorist attack - muslims condemn 9/11 terrorist attack
> 
> 
> 
> 
> in the aftermath of the violence and horror of 9/11, criticisms were made that muslim leaders and organizations were not outspoken enough in denouncing acts of terrorism. Muslims are constantly perplexed by this accusation, as we heard (and continue to hear) nothing but unequivocal and unified condemnations by the leaders of our community, both in the united states and worldwide. But for some reason, people are not listening.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> to hear a sound, you must open your ears and your mind.
> Of course, you don't want to hear because you prefer to hate and the sound of muslims rejecting terrorism ruins your preferred 'truth'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> your links don't contain any videos of muslims condemning their own, just people saying muslims condemn terrorism.  I've heard a lot of muslims and saw a lot of them on the talk shows blaming israel, and our support of israel for 9/11, but i didn't see or hear any flat out condemnation of their fellow muslims, only justifications.  I heard a lot of comments like "i condemn the killing of innocent people, but...".  Then they go on to make excuses for them.  I've seen a lot of that right here on this site.
Click to expand...


q.e.d.


----------



## S.J.

Indofred said:


> s.j. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 terrorist attack - muslims condemn 9/11 terrorist attack
> 
> 
> 
> to hear a sound, you must open your ears and your mind.
> Of course, you don't want to hear because you prefer to hate and the sound of muslims rejecting terrorism ruins your preferred 'truth'
> 
> 
> 
> your links don't contain any videos of muslims condemning their own, just people saying muslims condemn terrorism.  I've heard a lot of muslims and saw a lot of them on the talk shows blaming israel, and our support of israel for 9/11, but i didn't see or hear any flat out condemnation of their fellow muslims, only justifications.  I heard a lot of comments like "i condemn the killing of innocent people, but...".  Then they go on to make excuses for them.  I've seen a lot of that right here on this site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> q.e.d.
Click to expand...

?


----------



## Beachboy

S.J. said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see some then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 Terrorist Attack - Muslims Condemn 9/11 Terrorist Attack
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the aftermath of the violence and horror of 9/11, criticisms were made that Muslim leaders and organizations were not outspoken enough in denouncing acts of terrorism. Muslims are constantly perplexed by this accusation, as we heard (and continue to hear) nothing but unequivocal and unified condemnations by the leaders of our community, both in the United States and worldwide. But for some reason, people are not listening.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To hear a sound, you must open your ears and your mind.
> Of course, you don't want to hear because you prefer to hate and the sound of Muslims rejecting terrorism ruins your preferred 'truth'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your links don't contain any videos of muslims condemning their own, just people SAYING muslims condemn terrorism.  I've heard a lot of muslims and saw a lot of them on the talk shows blaming Israel, and our support of Israel for 9/11, but I didn't see or hear any flat out condemnation of their fellow muslims, only justifications.  I heard a lot of comments like "I condemn the killing of innocent people, but...".  Then they go on to make excuses for them.  I've seen a lot of that right here on this site.
Click to expand...


It is an old ploy.  It is what weak posters use when they can't find anything solid to say to defend their position.  It's the same with name-calling, and posting links that come up blank.  You've got him by the nuts.  Keep squeezing!




​


----------



## Pogo

S.J. said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see some then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 Terrorist Attack - Muslims Condemn 9/11 Terrorist Attack
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the aftermath of the violence and horror of 9/11, criticisms were made that Muslim leaders and organizations were not outspoken enough in denouncing acts of terrorism. Muslims are constantly perplexed by this accusation, as we heard (and continue to hear) nothing but unequivocal and unified condemnations by the leaders of our community, both in the United States and worldwide. But for some reason, people are not listening.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To hear a sound, you must open your ears and your mind.
> Of course, you don't want to hear because you prefer to hate and the sound of Muslims rejecting terrorism ruins your preferred 'truth'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your links don't contain any videos of muslims condemning their own, just people SAYING muslims condemn terrorism.  I've heard a lot of muslims and saw a lot of them on the talk shows blaming Israel, and our support of Israel for 9/11, but I didn't see or hear any flat out condemnation of their fellow muslims, only justifications.  I heard a lot of comments like "I condemn the killing of innocent people, but...".  Then they go on to make excuses for them.  I've seen a lot of that right here on this site.
Click to expand...


Oh poser please.  We did this a few weeks ago while you were perfecting your personal yoga posture the "ostrichasana" -




"Waaah! I don't see Muslims condemning terrorism!"

(links given)

"Waaaah!  They're not in video!  Waaah! They don't have Icelandic subtitles!  Waaah! They're not in a Helvetica font with a key lime background!  Waaah!"


----------



## Beachboy

​ 
There is not one of us, that at sometime in our life, (usually childhood), got caught for doing something wrong.  We thought at the time that getting caught would "be the end of our world," so we lied.  The more we lied the deeper the hole we dug ourselves.  Most of us in western culture have learned in adulthood that "taking responsibility" is the best way to deal with problems.  Obviously, from this thread, third world, ignorant, tribal Muslims are still trying to get away with childhood lies.  The longer they post, the more this forum realizes the importance of this issue.  We are dealing with barbarians.

Take a close look at what is happening in this thread.  We Anti-Muslim types are not bickering on the school yard.  Yes, we are baiting this issue to some degree to get your attention to it.  *BUT*, we also provide fact links to credible sources supporting the argument that the Muslim threat is real.  We have seen our cities bombed, and fellow citizens murdered.  2,980 people at the Boston Marathon and 9-11 alone!  This is not funny, nor is it a public relations game.  All Muslims have is the public relations game.  There are no facts to support what they have done to our cites and citizens.

Muslims simply have no rationale argument for what they have done in my country after we allowed them a fresh start here.  We see the lies, distortions, distractions, name-calling, and taking this thread off-topic.  All of which fails in the eyes of reflective thread viewers.  This is why we have so many viewers, (4,794) and so few posts, (356).  What you have here is a couple Muslim types trying to defend the indefensible to Americans who have lost their loved ones due to Muslim violence.

As sad as this subject is, these incompetent Muslims just keep protesting their innocence, but never empathizing or apologizing to the friends and families of our dead citizens.  Let's not lose our perspective with all this PRO-Muslim blather.  Islam is not compatible with America, and rag-head trash is a threat to the American way of life.  Whatever it takes.......





​


----------



## Aristotle

The above picture solidifies why most Americans are stupid


----------



## Unkotare

Aristotle said:


> The above picture solidifies why most Americans are stupid




Where are you from?


----------



## Aristotle

Unkotare said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> The above picture solidifies why most Americans are stupid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where are you from?
Click to expand...


Los Angeles--Born and raised in Compton California


----------



## Kondor3

Better a stupid Loyalist than a clever Quisling, any day...


----------



## Unkotare

Aristotle said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> The above picture solidifies why most Americans are stupid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where are you from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Los Angeles--Born and raised in Compton California
Click to expand...




So, are you stupid?


----------



## Big Black Dog

If we did not allow Muslim foreigners into the United States...........

...  We'd all be better off for it.


----------



## beagle9

Unkotare said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where are you from?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Los Angeles--Born and raised in Compton California
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, are you stupid?
Click to expand...

Good catch...


----------



## beagle9

Big Black Dog said:


> If we did not allow Muslim foreigners into the United States...........
> 
> ...  We'd all be better off for it.


It sure has stirred up some stink over the years now hasn't it, not to forget the deaths of Americans who have ended up on the unfortunate end of it all... I am suspect of the whole thing really, as the question remains asked "are we at war with a form of Islam or not in this nation" and in the world ? Some say we are, then you have those who say we aren't. Who can an average American believe other than what is seen as a result of the actions taken in which has killed Americans here and over there, and then we have to deal with the accused that have been captured here afterwards, and for whom we find have the same MO in most cases. Obama has even had to drone an American turned Islamist who was working against the United States for that form of religion over seas in as much as they viewed it. I understand that all Muslims cannot be this away I am hoping, but they should work to separate themselves quickly from the problems that are within or taking refuge within their religion in which they have, otherwise meaning they need to out them in order to separate themselves from these that use them for no good purposes in this nation, and in the world as well. Here they can do it successfully, but elsewhere in the world it would be harder for them to separate from the bad ones I would think.


----------



## Esmeralda

beagle9 said:


> Big Black Dog said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we did not allow Muslim foreigners into the United States...........
> 
> ...  We'd all be better off for it.
> 
> 
> 
> It sure has stirred up some stink over the years now hasn't it, not to forget the deaths of Americans who have ended up on the unfortunate end of it all... I am suspect of the whole thing really, as the question remains asked "are we at war with a form of Islam or not in this nation" and in the world ? Some say we are, then you have those who say we aren't. Who can an average American believe other than what is seen as a result of the actions taken in which has killed Americans here and over there, and then we have to deal with the accused that have been captured here afterwards, and for whom we find have the same MO in most cases. Obama has even had to drone an American turned Islamist who was working against the United States for that form of religion over seas in as much as they viewed it. I understand that all Muslims cannot be this away I am hoping, but they should work to separate themselves quickly from the problems that are within or taking refuge within their religion in which they have, otherwise meaning they need to out them in order to separate themselves from these that use them for no good purposes in this nation, and in the world as well. Here they can do it successfully, but elsewhere in the world it would be harder for them to separate from the bad ones I would think.
Click to expand...


If you look at crime reports in America regarding Muslims, by far more crime is  hate crime done against Muslims than crime by Muslims.  Those people killed in 9/11 were killed by extremists, by terrorists who do not represent the average Muslim.  There are 1.7 billion Muslims in the World today.  A number most of us cannot even imagine in literal terms. Compared to that, the number who are extremists or terrorists is miniscule.  Most Muslim people are ordinary people like the rest of us trying to live ordinary lives and should not be blamed for what a sick terrorist does because they don't believe in terrorism and they don't support it.

In American history, many different groups have immigrated to the US and had trouble assimilating, which often takes several decades.  In the begining, there were Dutch emigrants.  These people settled in NYC, an area that was named Harlam, after a town in Holland.  They were the people to dislike at that time.  The  people who dressed differently, who looked different, ate different food, worshipped differently, talked differently.  Other groups who have faced the same problem were the Irish, the Italian, the Chinese, Jews, etc.  Eventually, all of the groups blended into American society, but it did not happen in a few years, or even in a couple of decades.  A similar situation now exists for Muslims, with the added problem of the international situation of Palestine and Israel, which is the essential fuel for terrorism. Solve the Middle East crisis and you will eliminate Islamic terrorists, and it is these terrorists who have hijacked Islam from normal, ordinay peaceful Muslims so that people all over the world have a skewed view of Islam.

What I see, and I have a lot of experience living in Muslim countries, living in peace and living an ordinary life surrounded by ordinary, peaceful Muslims, what I see is that people like those who start a thread such as this are being manipulated by those who are hate mongers, by a limited world view, by ignorance and limited understanding.  You allow others to whip up hatred.  It is similar to the anti-Semitism that exsited in Europe for centuries.  Jews were hated. They were considered evil. They were considered sub-human.  No Jew was safe from persecution.  If any Jew did something wrong, they were all held responsible.  It ended in a holocaust against them.  

The religious war here is the West, Christianity, against Islam, not the other way around.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

What about Americans whose religion is Muslim?

What would you nutters do about them?


----------



## beagle9

Esmeralda said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Big Black Dog said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we did not allow Muslim foreigners into the United States...........
> 
> ...  We'd all be better off for it.
> 
> 
> 
> It sure has stirred up some stink over the years now hasn't it, not to forget the deaths of Americans who have ended up on the unfortunate end of it all... I am suspect of the whole thing really, as the question remains asked "are we at war with a form of Islam or not in this nation" and in the world ? Some say we are, then you have those who say we aren't. Who can an average American believe other than what is seen as a result of the actions taken in which has killed Americans here and over there, and then we have to deal with the accused that have been captured here afterwards, and for whom we find have the same MO in most cases. Obama has even had to drone an American turned Islamist who was working against the United States for that form of religion over seas in as much as they viewed it. I understand that all Muslims cannot be this away I am hoping, but they should work to separate themselves quickly from the problems that are within or taking refuge within their religion in which they have, otherwise meaning they need to out them in order to separate themselves from these that use them for no good purposes in this nation, and in the world as well. Here they can do it successfully, but elsewhere in the world it would be harder for them to separate from the bad ones I would think.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you look at crime reports in America regarding Muslims, by far more crime is  hate crime done against Muslims than crime by Muslims.  Those people killed in 9/11 were killed by extremists, by terrorists who do not represent the average Muslim.  There are 1.7 billion Muslims in the World today.  A number most of us cannot even imagine in literal terms. Compared to that, the number who are extremists or terrorists is miniscule.  Most Muslim people are ordinary people like the rest of us trying to live ordinary lives and should not be blamed for what a sick terrorist does because they don't believe in terrorism and they don't support it.
> 
> In American history, many different groups have immigrated to the US and had trouble assimilating, which often takes several decades.  In the begining, there were Dutch emigrants.  These people settled in NYC, an area that was named Harlam, after a town in Holland.  They were the people to dislike at that time.  The  people who dressed differently, who looked different, ate different food, worshipped differently, talked differently.  Other groups who have faced the same problem were the Irish, the Italian, the Chinese, Jews, etc.  Eventually, all of the groups blended into American society, but it did not happen in a few years, or even in a couple of decades.  A similar situation now exists for Muslims, with the added problem of the international situation of Palestine and Israel, which is the essential fuel for terrorism. Solve the Middle East crisis and you will eliminate Islamic terrorists, and it is these terrorists who have hijacked Islam from normal, ordinay peaceful Muslims so that people all over the world have a skewed view of Islam.
> 
> What I see, and I have a lot of experience living in Muslim countries, living in peace and living an ordinary life surrounded by ordinary, peaceful Muslims, what I see is that people like those who start a thread such as this are being manipulated by those who are hate mongers, by a limited world view, by ignorance and limited understanding.  You allow others to whip up hatred.  It is similar to the anti-Semitism that exsited in Europe for centuries.  Jews were hated. They were considered evil. They were considered sub-human.  No Jew was safe from persecution.  If any Jew did something wrong, they were all held responsible.  It ended in a holocaust against them.
> 
> The religious war here is the West, Christianity, against Islam, not the other way around.
Click to expand...

Ok, but who strikes out or draws blood first among these different sects in which you have labeled in some of these instances (a lot of history to cover) ? Did the Americans draw first blood on Islam or was it the other way around ? Are we defenders or aggressors in the war on terror ? I would like to think that we are the defenders of our allies and this nation in any war we engage in, but the history has to be looked at in detail and with eyes wide open in order to know the situations and the history that has brought us to where we are right now.   Can the scrutiny of Islam and it's radical wing with stand the test if we are to try and get to the bottom of it all ? Is there a partner in these crimes that has gone unseen so far ? You know I have found that these Indians from India seem to be a peaceful people who are here now, and that is good. I have seemingly good friends with these folks, although they are different in their ways, but so far not a hateful group it seems.


----------



## beagle9

Luddly Neddite said:


> What about Americans whose religion is Muslim?
> 
> What would you nutters do about them?


Well Obama might just drone them if they act up, and this once he gets drones operating over the nation... Just kidding. Hey you try to be funny, then so will I, but it's not very funny really is it ?


----------



## beagle9

Esmeralda said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Big Black Dog said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we did not allow Muslim foreigners into the United States...........
> 
> ...  We'd all be better off for it.
> 
> 
> 
> It sure has stirred up some stink over the years now hasn't it, not to forget the deaths of Americans who have ended up on the unfortunate end of it all... I am suspect of the whole thing really, as the question remains asked "are we at war with a form of Islam or not in this nation" and in the world ? Some say we are, then you have those who say we aren't. Who can an average American believe other than what is seen as a result of the actions taken in which has killed Americans here and over there, and then we have to deal with the accused that have been captured here afterwards, and for whom we find have the same MO in most cases. Obama has even had to drone an American turned Islamist who was working against the United States for that form of religion over seas in as much as they viewed it. I understand that all Muslims cannot be this away I am hoping, but they should work to separate themselves quickly from the problems that are within or taking refuge within their religion in which they have, otherwise meaning they need to out them in order to separate themselves from these that use them for no good purposes in this nation, and in the world as well. Here they can do it successfully, but elsewhere in the world it would be harder for them to separate from the bad ones I would think.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you look at crime reports in America regarding Muslims, by far more crime is  hate crime done against Muslims than crime by Muslims.  Those people killed in 9/11 were killed by extremists, by terrorists who do not represent the average Muslim.  There are 1.7 billion Muslims in the World today.  A number most of us cannot even imagine in literal terms. Compared to that, the number who are extremists or terrorists is miniscule.  Most Muslim people are ordinary people like the rest of us trying to live ordinary lives and should not be blamed for what a sick terrorist does because they don't believe in terrorism and they don't support it.
> 
> In American history, many different groups have immigrated to the US and had trouble assimilating, which often takes several decades.  In the begining, there were Dutch emigrants.  These people settled in NYC, an area that was named Harlam, after a town in Holland.  They were the people to dislike at that time.  The  people who dressed differently, who looked different, ate different food, worshipped differently, talked differently.  Other groups who have faced the same problem were the Irish, the Italian, the Chinese, Jews, etc.  Eventually, all of the groups blended into American society, but it did not happen in a few years, or even in a couple of decades.  A similar situation now exists for Muslims, with the added problem of the international situation of Palestine and Israel, which is the essential fuel for terrorism. Solve the Middle East crisis and you will eliminate Islamic terrorists, and it is these terrorists who have hijacked Islam from normal, ordinay peaceful Muslims so that people all over the world have a skewed view of Islam.
> 
> What I see, and I have a lot of experience living in Muslim countries, living in peace and living an ordinary life surrounded by ordinary, peaceful Muslims, what I see is that people like those who start a thread such as this are being manipulated by those who are hate mongers, by a limited world view, by ignorance and limited understanding.  You allow others to whip up hatred.  It is similar to the anti-Semitism that exsited in Europe for centuries.  Jews were hated. They were considered evil. They were considered sub-human.  No Jew was safe from persecution.  If any Jew did something wrong, they were all held responsible.  It ended in a holocaust against them.
> 
> *The religious war here is the West, Christianity, against Islam, not the other way around.*
Click to expand...

So here you are stating that Christianity is the problem eh ? Wow, then you wonder why so much is going on in this thread against opinions such as that one..


----------



## Luddly Neddite

beagle9 said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about Americans whose religion is Muslim?
> 
> What would you nutters do about them?
> 
> 
> 
> Well Obama might just drone them if they act up, and this once he gets drones operating over the nation... Just kidding. Hey you try to be funny, then so will I, but it's not very funny really is it ?
Click to expand...


No its not. 

I remember 9/11 postings on a message board I had at the time. The idiot rw's were all for killing all "muslins" while those wild and crazy libs wanted to go after those who had actually done the crime AND other terrorists. 

Its still the same. Idiots on the right don't really give a fuck if we kill terrorists. In fact, they hate the president for killing terrorists. 

Nope, the brain dead rw's just want to kill people because they -

Well, actually, they don't have a reason. 

No wonder you voted for bush. And, no wonder you were and still are in favor of an illegal war fought against a country who did nothing to us. 

You're just too damn dumb to understand that Muslims are not our enemy. Terrorists are.


----------



## Pogo

beagle9 said:


> Big Black Dog said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we did not allow Muslim foreigners into the United States...........
> 
> ...  We'd all be better off for it.
> 
> 
> 
> It sure has stirred up some stink over the years now hasn't it, not to forget the deaths of Americans who have ended up on the unfortunate end of it all... I am suspect of the whole thing really, as the question remains asked "are we at war with a form of Islam or not in this nation" and in the world ? Some say we are, then you have those who say we aren't. Who can an average American believe other than what is seen as a result of the actions taken in which has killed Americans here and over there, and then we have to deal with the accused that have been captured here afterwards, and for whom we find have the same MO in most cases. Obama has even had to drone an American turned Islamist who was working against the United States for that form of religion over seas in as much as they viewed it. I understand that all Muslims cannot be this away I am hoping, but they should work to separate themselves quickly from the problems that are within or taking refuge within their religion in which they have, otherwise meaning they need to out them in order to separate themselves from these that use them for no good purposes in this nation, and in the world as well. Here they can do it successfully, but elsewhere in the world it would be harder for them to separate from the bad ones I would think.
Click to expand...


The thing is, threads like this operate off subjective empirical impressions rather than facts.   Bigotboy simply goes out to Google Images, finds some photoshopped scary-monster pictures, and that's his case.  No facts.  He's even got the Boston Marathon bombing starring in the OP as a "Muslim" action, even though there's no evidence religion played any part at all.  And he freely admits to using "television network news" as his oracle, an instrument long known to make its case via sensationalistic bullshit, the more sensationalistic the better.  Fear sells, and he laps it up like a thirsty dog in a toilet, then wonders why everybody else isn't lapping at the same bowl.

When you actually count the numbers though it's quite a different story from what the fearmongers would sell us:

>> Since 9/11, Kurzman and his team tallies, 33 Americans have died as a result of terrorism launched by their Muslim neighbors. During that period, 180,000 Americans were murdered for reasons unrelated to terrorism. In just the past year, the mass shootings that have captivated America&#8217;s attention killed 66 Americans, &#8220;twice as many fatalities as from Muslim-American terrorism in all 11 years since 9/11,&#8221; notes Kurzman&#8217;s team. << --Report: U.S. Muslim Terrorism Was Practically Nil in 2012

>> We counted up the number of terrorist attacks carried out by Muslims.  We excluded attacks by groups which are obviously not Muslims, such as the Ku Klux Klan, Medellin Drug Cartel, Irish Republican Army, Anti-Castro Group, Mormon extremists, Vietnamese Organization to Exterminate Communists and Restore the Nation, Jewish Defense League, May 19 Communist Order, Chicano Liberation Front, Jewish Armed Resistance, American Indian Movement, Gay Liberation Front, Aryan Nation, Jewish Action Movement, National Front for the Liberation of Cuba, or Fourth Reich Skinheads.

We counted attacks by Al Qaeda, the Taliban, Black American Moslems, or anyone who even remotely sounded Muslim &#8230; for example anyone from Palestine, Lebanon or any other Arab or Muslim country, or any name including anything sounding remotely Arabic or Indonesian (like &#8220;Al&#8221; anything or &#8220;Jamaat&#8221; anything).

If we weren&#8217;t sure what the person&#8217;s affiliation was, we looked up the name of the group to determine whether it could in any way be connected to Muslims.

Based on our review of the approximately 2,400 terrorist attacks on U.S. soil contained within the START database, we determined that approximately 60 were carried out by Muslims.

In other words, approximately *2.5%* of all terrorist attacks on U.S. soil between 1970 and 2012 were carried out by Muslims.  <<  -- Non-Muslims Carried Out More Than 90% of All Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Soil 

(note: an FBI study covering a different time period puts the Magic Muslim Number at 6% -- see also next story)

-- This is where the hair-on-fire bigotboys with megaphones --including the mass corporate media that feed them-- pimp pernicious perceptions over quantifiable facts.

>> If one follows the cable news networks, it seems as if all terrorists are Muslims.  It has even become axiomatic in some circles to chant: &#8220;Not all Muslims are terrorists, but nearly all terrorists are Muslims.&#8221; Muslims and their &#8220;leftist dhimmi allies&#8221; respond feebly, mentioning Waco as the one counter example, unwittingly affirming the belief that &#8220;nearly all terrorists are Muslims.&#8221;

... According to this data, there were more Jewish acts of terrorism within the United States than Islamic (7% vs 6%).  These radical Jews committed acts of terrorism in the name of their religion.  These were not terrorists who happened to be Jews; rather, they were extremist Jews who committed acts of terrorism based on their religious passions, just like Al-Qaeda and company.

Yet notice the *disparity in media coverage* between the two.  It would indeed be very interesting to construct a corresponding pie chart that depicted the level of media coverage of each group.  The reason that Muslim apologists and their &#8220;leftist dhimmi allies&#8221; cannot recall another non-Islamic act of terrorism other than Waco is due to the fact that_ the media gives menial (if any) coverage to such events.  If a terrorist attack does not fit the &#8220;Islam is the perennial and existential threat of our times&#8221; narrative, it is simply not paid much attention to, which in a circuitous manner reinforces and &#8220;proves&#8221; the preconceived narrative_.  It is to such an extent that the average American cannot remember any Jewish or Latino terrorist; why should he when he has never even heard of the Jewish Defense League or the Ejercito Popular Boricua Macheteros?  Surely what he does not know does not exist! << -- All Terrorists Are Muslims - Except the 94% That Aren't (emphasis added)

Fearmongers like Bigotboy have been around since dirt (and probably have the same parents).  Defining a "scapegoat class" has been a tool of the ethically bereft just as long.  Some of them played the game effectively enough to bring about dire consequences (Hitler, 1930s).  Bigotboy, not so effective.  But in either case, when the fearmongers' impressionistic snake oil is held up to a fact check, it evaporates and blows away like a wisp of hot air.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

beagle9 said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It sure has stirred up some stink over the years now hasn't it, not to forget the deaths of Americans who have ended up on the unfortunate end of it all... I am suspect of the whole thing really, as the question remains asked "are we at war with a form of Islam or not in this nation" and in the world ? Some say we are, then you have those who say we aren't. Who can an average American believe other than what is seen as a result of the actions taken in which has killed Americans here and over there, and then we have to deal with the accused that have been captured here afterwards, and for whom we find have the same MO in most cases. Obama has even had to drone an American turned Islamist who was working against the United States for that form of religion over seas in as much as they viewed it. I understand that all Muslims cannot be this away I am hoping, but they should work to separate themselves quickly from the problems that are within or taking refuge within their religion in which they have, otherwise meaning they need to out them in order to separate themselves from these that use them for no good purposes in this nation, and in the world as well. Here they can do it successfully, but elsewhere in the world it would be harder for them to separate from the bad ones I would think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at crime reports in America regarding Muslims, by far more crime is  hate crime done against Muslims than crime by Muslims.  Those people killed in 9/11 were killed by extremists, by terrorists who do not represent the average Muslim.  There are 1.7 billion Muslims in the World today.  A number most of us cannot even imagine in literal terms. Compared to that, the number who are extremists or terrorists is miniscule.  Most Muslim people are ordinary people like the rest of us trying to live ordinary lives and should not be blamed for what a sick terrorist does because they don't believe in terrorism and they don't support it.
> 
> In American history, many different groups have immigrated to the US and had trouble assimilating, which often takes several decades.  In the begining, there were Dutch emigrants.  These people settled in NYC, an area that was named Harlam, after a town in Holland.  They were the people to dislike at that time.  The  people who dressed differently, who looked different, ate different food, worshipped differently, talked differently.  Other groups who have faced the same problem were the Irish, the Italian, the Chinese, Jews, etc.  Eventually, all of the groups blended into American society, but it did not happen in a few years, or even in a couple of decades.  A similar situation now exists for Muslims, with the added problem of the international situation of Palestine and Israel, which is the essential fuel for terrorism. Solve the Middle East crisis and you will eliminate Islamic terrorists, and it is these terrorists who have hijacked Islam from normal, ordinay peaceful Muslims so that people all over the world have a skewed view of Islam.
> 
> What I see, and I have a lot of experience living in Muslim countries, living in peace and living an ordinary life surrounded by ordinary, peaceful Muslims, what I see is that people like those who start a thread such as this are being manipulated by those who are hate mongers, by a limited world view, by ignorance and limited understanding.  You allow others to whip up hatred.  It is similar to the anti-Semitism that exsited in Europe for centuries.  Jews were hated. They were considered evil. They were considered sub-human.  No Jew was safe from persecution.  If any Jew did something wrong, they were all held responsible.  It ended in a holocaust against them.
> 
> *The religious war here is the West, Christianity, against Islam, not the other way around.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So here you are stating that Christianity is the problem eh ? Wow, then you wonder why so much is going on in this thread against opinions such as that one..
Click to expand...


What she said is true. 

Deal with it.


----------



## Esmeralda

beagle9 said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It sure has stirred up some stink over the years now hasn't it, not to forget the deaths of Americans who have ended up on the unfortunate end of it all... I am suspect of the whole thing really, as the question remains asked "are we at war with a form of Islam or not in this nation" and in the world ? Some say we are, then you have those who say we aren't. Who can an average American believe other than what is seen as a result of the actions taken in which has killed Americans here and over there, and then we have to deal with the accused that have been captured here afterwards, and for whom we find have the same MO in most cases. Obama has even had to drone an American turned Islamist who was working against the United States for that form of religion over seas in as much as they viewed it. I understand that all Muslims cannot be this away I am hoping, but they should work to separate themselves quickly from the problems that are within or taking refuge within their religion in which they have, otherwise meaning they need to out them in order to separate themselves from these that use them for no good purposes in this nation, and in the world as well. Here they can do it successfully, but elsewhere in the world it would be harder for them to separate from the bad ones I would think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at crime reports in America regarding Muslims, by far more crime is  hate crime done against Muslims than crime by Muslims.  Those people killed in 9/11 were killed by extremists, by terrorists who do not represent the average Muslim.  There are 1.7 billion Muslims in the World today.  A number most of us cannot even imagine in literal terms. Compared to that, the number who are extremists or terrorists is miniscule.  Most Muslim people are ordinary people like the rest of us trying to live ordinary lives and should not be blamed for what a sick terrorist does because they don't believe in terrorism and they don't support it.
> 
> In American history, many different groups have immigrated to the US and had trouble assimilating, which often takes several decades.  In the begining, there were Dutch emigrants.  These people settled in NYC, an area that was named Harlam, after a town in Holland.  They were the people to dislike at that time.  The  people who dressed differently, who looked different, ate different food, worshipped differently, talked differently.  Other groups who have faced the same problem were the Irish, the Italian, the Chinese, Jews, etc.  Eventually, all of the groups blended into American society, but it did not happen in a few years, or even in a couple of decades.  A similar situation now exists for Muslims, with the added problem of the international situation of Palestine and Israel, which is the essential fuel for terrorism. Solve the Middle East crisis and you will eliminate Islamic terrorists, and it is these terrorists who have hijacked Islam from normal, ordinay peaceful Muslims so that people all over the world have a skewed view of Islam.
> 
> What I see, and I have a lot of experience living in Muslim countries, living in peace and living an ordinary life surrounded by ordinary, peaceful Muslims, what I see is that people like those who start a thread such as this are being manipulated by those who are hate mongers, by a limited world view, by ignorance and limited understanding.  You allow others to whip up hatred.  It is similar to the anti-Semitism that exsited in Europe for centuries.  Jews were hated. They were considered evil. They were considered sub-human.  No Jew was safe from persecution.  If any Jew did something wrong, they were all held responsible.  It ended in a holocaust against them.
> 
> The religious war here is the West, Christianity, against Islam, not the other way around.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, but who strikes out or draws blood first among these different sects in which you have labeled in some of these instances (a lot of history to cover) ? Did the Americans draw first blood on Islam or was it the other way around ? Are we defenders or aggressors in the war on terror ? I would like to think that we are the defenders of our allies and this nation in any war we engage in, but the history has to be looked at in detail and with eyes wide open in order to know the situations and the history that has brought us to where we are right now.   Can the scrutiny of Islam and it's radical wing with stand the test if we are to try and get to the bottom of it all ? Is there a partner in these crimes that has gone unseen so far ? You know I have found that these Indians from India seem to be a peaceful people who are here now, and that is good. I have seemingly good friends with these folks, although they are different in their ways, but so far not a hateful group it seems.
Click to expand...


The American government has killed by far more Muslims than Muslims have killed Americans.  In fact, you could put all the Westerners and non-Muslims together who have been killed by Muslim terrorists, and you would still have a very small number compared to the number of Muslims killed by the American government and their allies.


----------



## beagle9

Luddly Neddite said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about Americans whose religion is Muslim?
> 
> What would you nutters do about them?
> 
> 
> 
> Well Obama might just drone them if they act up, and this once he gets drones operating over the nation... Just kidding. Hey you try to be funny, then so will I, but it's not very funny really is it ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No its not.
> 
> I remember 9/11 postings on a message board I had at the time. The idiot rw's were all for killing all "muslins" while those wild and crazy libs wanted to go after those who had actually done the crime AND other terrorists.
> 
> Its still the same. Idiots on the right don't really give a fuck if we kill terrorists. In fact, they hate the president for killing terrorists.
> 
> Nope, the brain dead rw's just want to kill people because they -
> 
> Well, actually, they don't have a reason.
> 
> No wonder you voted for bush. And, no wonder you were and still are in favor of an illegal war fought against a country who did nothing to us.
> 
> You're just too damn dumb to understand that Muslims are not our enemy. Terrorists are.
Click to expand...

Struck a nerve did I ? Now who is the one who would maybe draw first blood between us ya think ? I think it would be you who would swing first, as your attitude projects this, but I am the nutter here eh ? This seems to be a real problem amongst libs once they are backed into a corner it seems.


----------



## S.J.

Pogo said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 Terrorist Attack - Muslims Condemn 9/11 Terrorist Attack
> 
> 
> 
> To hear a sound, you must open your ears and your mind.
> Of course, you don't want to hear because you prefer to hate and the sound of Muslims rejecting terrorism ruins your preferred 'truth'
> 
> 
> 
> Your links don't contain any videos of muslims condemning their own, just people SAYING muslims condemn terrorism.  I've heard a lot of muslims and saw a lot of them on the talk shows blaming Israel, and our support of Israel for 9/11, but I didn't see or hear any flat out condemnation of their fellow muslims, only justifications.  I heard a lot of comments like "I condemn the killing of innocent people, but...".  Then they go on to make excuses for them.  I've seen a lot of that right here on this site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh poser please.  We did this a few weeks ago while you were perfecting your personal yoga posture the "ostrichasana" -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Waaah! I don't see Muslims condemning terrorism!"
> 
> (links given)
> 
> "Waaaah!  They're not in video!  Waaah! They don't have Icelandic subtitles!  Waaah! They're not in a Helvetica font with a key lime background!  Waaah!"
Click to expand...

With all the condemning going on, there should be some videos, so why don't you post one, instead of your adolescent drama?


----------



## beagle9

Esmeralda said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at crime reports in America regarding Muslims, by far more crime is  hate crime done against Muslims than crime by Muslims.  Those people killed in 9/11 were killed by extremists, by terrorists who do not represent the average Muslim.  There are 1.7 billion Muslims in the World today.  A number most of us cannot even imagine in literal terms. Compared to that, the number who are extremists or terrorists is miniscule.  Most Muslim people are ordinary people like the rest of us trying to live ordinary lives and should not be blamed for what a sick terrorist does because they don't believe in terrorism and they don't support it.
> 
> In American history, many different groups have immigrated to the US and had trouble assimilating, which often takes several decades.  In the begining, there were Dutch emigrants.  These people settled in NYC, an area that was named Harlam, after a town in Holland.  They were the people to dislike at that time.  The  people who dressed differently, who looked different, ate different food, worshipped differently, talked differently.  Other groups who have faced the same problem were the Irish, the Italian, the Chinese, Jews, etc.  Eventually, all of the groups blended into American society, but it did not happen in a few years, or even in a couple of decades.  A similar situation now exists for Muslims, with the added problem of the international situation of Palestine and Israel, which is the essential fuel for terrorism. Solve the Middle East crisis and you will eliminate Islamic terrorists, and it is these terrorists who have hijacked Islam from normal, ordinay peaceful Muslims so that people all over the world have a skewed view of Islam.
> 
> What I see, and I have a lot of experience living in Muslim countries, living in peace and living an ordinary life surrounded by ordinary, peaceful Muslims, what I see is that people like those who start a thread such as this are being manipulated by those who are hate mongers, by a limited world view, by ignorance and limited understanding.  You allow others to whip up hatred.  It is similar to the anti-Semitism that exsited in Europe for centuries.  Jews were hated. They were considered evil. They were considered sub-human.  No Jew was safe from persecution.  If any Jew did something wrong, they were all held responsible.  It ended in a holocaust against them.
> 
> The religious war here is the West, Christianity, against Islam, not the other way around.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, but who strikes out or draws blood first among these different sects in which you have labeled in some of these instances (a lot of history to cover) ? Did the Americans draw first blood on Islam or was it the other way around ? Are we defenders or aggressors in the war on terror ? I would like to think that we are the defenders of our allies and this nation in any war we engage in, but the history has to be looked at in detail and with eyes wide open in order to know the situations and the history that has brought us to where we are right now.   Can the scrutiny of Islam and it's radical wing with stand the test if we are to try and get to the bottom of it all ? Is there a partner in these crimes that has gone unseen so far ? You know I have found that these Indians from India seem to be a peaceful people who are here now, and that is good. I have seemingly good friends with these folks, although they are different in their ways, but so far not a hateful group it seems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *The American government has killed by far more Muslims than Muslims have killed Americans. * In fact, you could put all the Westerners and non-Muslims together who have been killed by Muslim terrorists, and you would still have a very small number compared to the number of Muslims killed by the American government and their allies.
Click to expand...


And why is this you suppose that the American government as you claim has killed more Muslims than Muslims have killed Americans  ? Do you think the American government just kills people for no reason at all, and if so why are you here or are you here in this country ?  If you think this, then you are a nutter according to some on this board, so are you a nutter who thinks the American government expends billions of it's treasure chasing down Muslims and killing them for nothing ? By allies do you mean specifcally the Jews ?  Help me to understand this position you hold on our government.


----------



## Pogo

S.J. said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your links don't contain any videos of muslims condemning their own, just people SAYING muslims condemn terrorism.  I've heard a lot of muslims and saw a lot of them on the talk shows blaming Israel, and our support of Israel for 9/11, but I didn't see or hear any flat out condemnation of their fellow muslims, only justifications.  I heard a lot of comments like "I condemn the killing of innocent people, but...".  Then they go on to make excuses for them.  I've seen a lot of that right here on this site.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh poser please.  We did this a few weeks ago while you were perfecting your personal yoga posture the "ostrichasana" -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Waaah! I don't see Muslims condemning terrorism!"
> 
> (links given)
> 
> "Waaaah!  They're not in video!  Waaah! They don't have Icelandic subtitles!  Waaah! They're not in a Helvetica font with a key lime background!  Waaah!"
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> With all the condemning going on, there should be some videos, so why don't you post one, instead of your adolescent drama?
Click to expand...


You're through all those links already?  There's a Part Two you know.  

I could post a video but it wouldn't be in the 49:8 aspect ratio in the PAL format with a split screen showing a recipe for goulash plus the current time in Pago Pago, so you'd just whine that it didn't count.  Whatever it takes to keep your head buried in the sand.

There's also a part three.  And four. And five.  They have powerpoints in there too.  Let me guess-- powerpoints don't count either.


----------



## S.J.

Pogo said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh poser please.  We did this a few weeks ago while you were perfecting your personal yoga posture the "ostrichasana" -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Waaah! I don't see Muslims condemning terrorism!"
> 
> (links given)
> 
> "Waaaah!  They're not in video!  Waaah! They don't have Icelandic subtitles!  Waaah! They're not in a Helvetica font with a key lime background!  Waaah!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With all the condemning going on, there should be some videos, so why don't you post one, instead of your adolescent drama?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're through all those links already?  There's a Part Two you know.
> 
> I could post a video but it wouldn't be in the 49:8 aspect ratio in the PAL format with a split screen showing a recipe for goulash plus the current time in Pago Pago, so you'd just whine that it didn't count.  Whatever it takes to keep your head buried in the sand.
> 
> There's also a part three.  And four. And five.  They have powerpoints in there too.  Let me guess-- powerpoints don't count either.
Click to expand...

All your links show is somebody claiming that muslims condemned the terrorists.  You expect us to take the word of a liberal?


----------



## Pogo

beagle9 said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, but who strikes out or draws blood first among these different sects in which you have labeled in some of these instances (a lot of history to cover) ? Did the Americans draw first blood on Islam or was it the other way around ? Are we defenders or aggressors in the war on terror ? I would like to think that we are the defenders of our allies and this nation in any war we engage in, but the history has to be looked at in detail and with eyes wide open in order to know the situations and the history that has brought us to where we are right now.   Can the scrutiny of Islam and it's radical wing with stand the test if we are to try and get to the bottom of it all ? Is there a partner in these crimes that has gone unseen so far ? You know I have found that these Indians from India seem to be a peaceful people who are here now, and that is good. I have seemingly good friends with these folks, although they are different in their ways, but so far not a hateful group it seems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The American government has killed by far more Muslims than Muslims have killed Americans. * In fact, you could put all the Westerners and non-Muslims together who have been killed by Muslim terrorists, and you would still have a very small number compared to the number of Muslims killed by the American government and their allies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And why is this you suppose that the American government as you claim has killed more Muslims than Muslims have killed Americans  ? Do you think the American government just kills people for no reason at all, and if so why are you here or are you here in this country ?  If you think this, then you are a nutter according to some on this board, so are you a nutter who thinks the American government expends billions of it's treasure chasing down Muslims and killing them for nothing ? By allies do you mean specifcally the Jews ?  Help me to understand this position you hold on our government.
Click to expand...



You're not making any argument just gainsaying, calling people "nutters" and posting an icon drawing circles around its own ear.  Either dispute the point, or accept it.  Again, put up facts, not emoticons.

This site makes some cases related to this point:
>> Seven times more people have died in Christian wars: 113.8 million compared to the 16.4 million who died in Muslim wars. << (Table breaks down by item)...

>> Christians have killed eight times more people in democides than Muslims: 76.5 million compared to 9.3 million. Almost the same rate as for war. << (Table breaks down by item)

However, all of this is assuming that the dominant religion in that place and time is also the catalyst that made it happen.  That's the same bogus basis that the OP of this thread used, applying "religion" as a causal factor _*only *_when the religion is Islam.

As that site goes on to note, 
>> The mistake here lies not in the numbers but in the words Christian and Muslim. Sometimes religion is a cause  or at least an excuse  like in the bombings by Christian extremist Eric Rudolph or the genocide in Sudan. But most often it is not. Calling, say, the 9/11 terrorists Muslim is like calling Hitler Christian: true yet misleading. It is Islamophobia, not a serious attempt to understand the world as it is. <<

The entire basis of this thread -- that the subject is "Muslims" -- is bogus.  And it has been from the start.  That's what Luddly means by "Muslims are not our enemy. Terrorists are".


----------



## Pogo

S.J. said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> With all the condemning going on, there should be some videos, so why don't you post one, instead of your adolescent drama?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're through all those links already?  There's a Part Two you know.
> 
> I could post a video but it wouldn't be in the 49:8 aspect ratio in the PAL format with a split screen showing a recipe for goulash plus the current time in Pago Pago, so you'd just whine that it didn't count.  Whatever it takes to keep your head buried in the sand.
> 
> There's also a part three.  And four. And five.  They have powerpoints in there too.  Let me guess-- powerpoints don't count either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All your links show is somebody claiming that muslims condemned the terrorists.  You expect us to take the word of a liberal?
Click to expand...


I expect you to go fuck yourself.  You're the same asshole who claimed I was a racist for pointing out that the audience of Fox Noise is predominantly white (which is a fact), so you're obviously not the sharpest knife in the fucking drawer.  Now go play on the turnpike and let the adults handle this.


----------



## Aristotle

Unkotare said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where are you from?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Los Angeles--Born and raised in Compton California
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, are you stupid?
Click to expand...


I grow tired of your childish comments


----------



## Aristotle

beagle9 said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about Americans whose religion is Muslim?
> 
> What would you nutters do about them?
> 
> 
> 
> Well Obama might just drone them if they act up, and this once he gets drones operating over the nation... Just kidding. Hey you try to be funny, then so will I, but it's not very funny really is it ?
Click to expand...


Neither is your comment


----------



## Aristotle

The problem I see here is bigotry.

The OP Beachboy is a bigot, an Islamaphobe, who is a reflection of a lot of ignorant people.

If Islam is the peoblem and if we need to be fearful of Muslims then I say we ought to have the same sentiment towards Christians.


----------



## beagle9

Pogo said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The American government has killed by far more Muslims than Muslims have killed Americans. * In fact, you could put all the Westerners and non-Muslims together who have been killed by Muslim terrorists, and you would still have a very small number compared to the number of Muslims killed by the American government and their allies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And why is this you suppose that the American government as you claim has killed more Muslims than Muslims have killed Americans  ? Do you think the American government just kills people for no reason at all, and if so why are you here or are you here in this country ?  If you think this, then you are a nutter according to some on this board, so are you a nutter who thinks the American government expends billions of it's treasure chasing down Muslims and killing them for nothing ? By allies do you mean specifcally the Jews ?  Help me to understand this position you hold on our government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You're not making any argument just gainsaying, calling people "nutters" and posting an icon drawing circles around its own ear.  Either dispute the point, or accept it.  Again, put up facts, not emoticons.
> 
> This site makes some cases related to this point:
> >> Seven times more people have died in Christian wars: 113.8 million compared to the 16.4 million who died in Muslim wars. << (Table breaks down by item)...
> 
> >> Christians have killed eight times more people in democides than Muslims: 76.5 million compared to 9.3 million. Almost the same rate as for war. << (Table breaks down by item)
> 
> However, all of this is assuming that the dominant religion in that place and time is also the catalyst that made it happen.  That's the same bogus basis that the OP of this thread used, applying "religion" as a causal factor _*only *_when the religion is Islam.
> 
> As that site goes on to note,
> >> The mistake here lies not in the numbers but in the words &#8220;Christian&#8221; and &#8220;Muslim&#8221;. Sometimes religion is a cause &#8211; or at least an excuse &#8211; like in the bombings by Christian extremist Eric Rudolph or the genocide in Sudan. But most often it is not. Calling, say, the 9/11 terrorists &#8220;Muslim&#8221; is like calling Hitler &#8220;Christian&#8221;: true yet misleading. It is Islamophobia, not a serious attempt to understand the world as it is. <<
> 
> The entire basis of this thread -- that the subject is "Muslims" -- is bogus.  And it has been from the start.  That's what Luddly means by "Muslims are not our enemy. Terrorists are".
Click to expand...

Is this thread somehow trying to define better who a supposed enemy is maybe or who he is hiding behind ? Yes it can be disputed for sure, but if there had been no killings or no bombings at the hands of who ever these people are doing the killing right now, and in this nation, and in this time period (i.e. currently, not hundreds or thousands of years ago), then the thread or attitude wouldn't exist at all now would it ? How come the government doesn't help educate the American public better ? Shouldn't that be a part of their job in this nation ? Why have they been so distant in these matters (letting imaginations run wild like they are) or worse when we are killed it is labeled as workplace accidents ?


----------



## Pogo

beagle9 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And why is this you suppose that the American government as you claim has killed more Muslims than Muslims have killed Americans  ? Do you think the American government just kills people for no reason at all, and if so why are you here or are you here in this country ?  If you think this, then you are a nutter according to some on this board, so are you a nutter who thinks the American government expends billions of it's treasure chasing down Muslims and killing them for nothing ? By allies do you mean specifcally the Jews ?  Help me to understand this position you hold on our government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're not making any argument just gainsaying, calling people "nutters" and posting an icon drawing circles around its own ear.  Either dispute the point, or accept it.  Again, put up facts, not emoticons.
> 
> This site makes some cases related to this point:
> >> Seven times more people have died in Christian wars: 113.8 million compared to the 16.4 million who died in Muslim wars. << (Table breaks down by item)...
> 
> >> Christians have killed eight times more people in democides than Muslims: 76.5 million compared to 9.3 million. Almost the same rate as for war. << (Table breaks down by item)
> 
> However, all of this is assuming that the dominant religion in that place and time is also the catalyst that made it happen.  That's the same bogus basis that the OP of this thread used, applying "religion" as a causal factor _*only *_when the religion is Islam.
> 
> As that site goes on to note,
> >> The mistake here lies not in the numbers but in the words &#8220;Christian&#8221; and &#8220;Muslim&#8221;. Sometimes religion is a cause &#8211; or at least an excuse &#8211; like in the bombings by Christian extremist Eric Rudolph or the genocide in Sudan. But most often it is not. Calling, say, the 9/11 terrorists &#8220;Muslim&#8221; is like calling Hitler &#8220;Christian&#8221;: true yet misleading. It is Islamophobia, not a serious attempt to understand the world as it is. <<
> 
> The entire basis of this thread -- that the subject is "Muslims" -- is bogus.  And it has been from the start.  That's what Luddly means by "Muslims are not our enemy. Terrorists are".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is this thread somehow trying to define better who a supposed enemy is maybe or who he is hiding behind ? Yes it can be disputed for sure, but if there had been no killings or no bombings at the hands of who ever these people are doing the killing right now, and in this nation, and in this time period (i.e. currently, not hundreds or thousands of years ago), then the thread or attitude wouldn't exist at all now would it ? How come the government doesn't help educate the American public better ? Shouldn't that be a part of their job in this nation ? Why have they been so distant in these matters (letting imaginations run wild like they are)?
Click to expand...


It isn't the government's role to keep the public informed; it's the media's.  And the pitfalls of _*that *_are both self-evident and worthy of their own thread.

This goes right back to the points in post 372.  Please read it.  It's addressed to you.

But yes, threads like this would exist even if the media were evenhanded and the public were evenly informed.  Because as long as bigots like Bleach Boy exist, they'll try to stir up the shit by demonizing a race or a religion or whatever they can come up with, to spread their own ignorance.


----------



## S.J.

Pogo said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're through all those links already?  There's a Part Two you know.
> 
> I could post a video but it wouldn't be in the 49:8 aspect ratio in the PAL format with a split screen showing a recipe for goulash plus the current time in Pago Pago, so you'd just whine that it didn't count.  Whatever it takes to keep your head buried in the sand.
> 
> There's also a part three.  And four. And five.  They have powerpoints in there too.  Let me guess-- powerpoints don't count either.
> 
> 
> 
> All your links show is somebody claiming that muslims condemned the terrorists.  You expect us to take the word of a liberal?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I expect you to go fuck yourself.  You're the same asshole who claimed I was a racist for pointing out that the audience of Fox Noise is predominantly white (which is a fact), so you're obviously not the sharpest knife in the fucking drawer.  Now go play on the turnpike and let the adults handle this.
Click to expand...

Another adolescent remark to replace your lack of substance.  No one ever saw or heard a muslim condemn the terrorists on 9/11, and you can't produce any evidence whatsoever of this happening, yet you insist that it did.  Then when confronted with a challenge to produce something, you resort to profanities and pre-pubescent put downs, thinking that lets you off the hook.  Put up or shut up.


----------



## beagle9

Aristotle said:


> The problem I see here is bigotry.
> 
> The OP Beachboy is a bigot, an Islamaphobe, who is a reflection of a lot of ignorant people.
> 
> If Islam is the peoblem and if we need to be fearful of Muslims then I say we ought to have the same sentiment towards Christians.


That's what you need to do or try to inspire..... Good luck with that one.. Running out of things to say are we ?

Has any Christians killed anyone you know lately ? Hey I am for Muslims, as long as they are for me, and I don't really think the thread is condemning them, only speaking of caution with them, and to whether or not they are actually compatible with the Christians who live here in peace right ? Some here speak of conflict dating way back, and how many have died and so on and so forth in these conflicts between the two, so it is a legitimate opinion of caution to wonder about it all in light of the recent events, and whether it is actually compatible or not. It's really up to all of them, but is this the proving ground now? I just hope that we all can get along somehow, as I love all peoples and diversity in the nation, but it must remain peaceful & American as the umbrella hanging over it all.


----------



## Aristotle

beagle9 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem I see here is bigotry.
> 
> The OP Beachboy is a bigot, an Islamaphobe, who is a reflection of a lot of ignorant people.
> 
> If Islam is the peoblem and if we need to be fearful of Muslims then I say we ought to have the same sentiment towards Christians.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what you need to do or try to inspire..... Good luck with that one.. Running out of things to say are we ?
> 
> Has any Christians killed anyone you know lately ? Hey I am for Muslims, as long as they are for me, and I don't really think the thread is condemning them, only speaking of caution with them, and to whether or not they are actually compatible with the Christians who live here in peace right ? Some here speak of conflict dating way back, and how many have died and so on and so forth in these conflicts between the two, so it is a legitimate opinion of caution to wonder about it all in light of the recent events, and whether it is actually compatible or not. It's really up to all of them, but is this the proving ground now? I just hope that we all can get along somehow, as I love all peoples and diversity in the nation, but it must remain peaceful & American as the umbrella hanging over it all.
Click to expand...



If this thread is to caution us against Muslims then I say I must caution myself against Christians. I have had more bad dealings with Christians than Muslims.


----------



## Pogo

beagle9 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem I see here is bigotry.
> 
> The OP Beachboy is a bigot, an Islamaphobe, who is a reflection of a lot of ignorant people.
> 
> If Islam is the peoblem and if we need to be fearful of Muslims then I say we ought to have the same sentiment towards Christians.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what you need to do or try to inspire..... Good luck with that one.. Running out of things to say are we ?
> 
> Has any Christians killed anyone you know lately ?
Click to expand...


Eric Rudolph was trolling around in areas near where I live, literally in places I physically go to.  One of his bombing targets (in Georgia) was in a place where I shop.

Is this so hard to fathom, just because it doesn't fit the scary-monster narrative?



beagle9 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem I see here is bigotry.
> 
> The OP Beachboy is a bigot, an Islamaphobe, who is a reflection of a lot of ignorant people.
> 
> If Islam is the peoblem and if we need to be fearful of Muslims then I say we ought to have the same sentiment towards Christians.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what you need to do or try to inspire..... Good luck with that one.. Running out of things to say are we ?
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... and I don't really think the thread is condemning them, only speaking of caution with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is there some reason you remain deliberately ignorant of what this thread is made of?  Even after I summarized it for you?
> At this point you're just looking stupid.
Click to expand...


----------



## S.J.

Aristotle said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem I see here is bigotry.
> 
> The OP Beachboy is a bigot, an Islamaphobe, who is a reflection of a lot of ignorant people.
> 
> If Islam is the peoblem and if we need to be fearful of Muslims then I say we ought to have the same sentiment towards Christians.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what you need to do or try to inspire..... Good luck with that one.. Running out of things to say are we ?
> 
> Has any Christians killed anyone you know lately ? Hey I am for Muslims, as long as they are for me, and I don't really think the thread is condemning them, only speaking of caution with them, and to whether or not they are actually compatible with the Christians who live here in peace right ? Some here speak of conflict dating way back, and how many have died and so on and so forth in these conflicts between the two, so it is a legitimate opinion of caution to wonder about it all in light of the recent events, and whether it is actually compatible or not. It's really up to all of them, but is this the proving ground now? I just hope that we all can get along somehow, as I love all peoples and diversity in the nation, but it must remain peaceful & American as the umbrella hanging over it all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If this thread is to caution us against Muslims then I say I must caution myself against Christians. I have had more bad dealings with Christians than Muslims.
Click to expand...

I would think you would be more concerned about drive-by's if you live in Compton.


----------



## beagle9

Pogo said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're not making any argument just gainsaying, calling people "nutters" and posting an icon drawing circles around its own ear.  Either dispute the point, or accept it.  Again, put up facts, not emoticons.
> 
> This site makes some cases related to this point:
> >> Seven times more people have died in Christian wars: 113.8 million compared to the 16.4 million who died in Muslim wars. << (Table breaks down by item)...
> 
> >> Christians have killed eight times more people in democides than Muslims: 76.5 million compared to 9.3 million. Almost the same rate as for war. << (Table breaks down by item)
> 
> However, all of this is assuming that the dominant religion in that place and time is also the catalyst that made it happen.  That's the same bogus basis that the OP of this thread used, applying "religion" as a causal factor _*only *_when the religion is Islam.
> 
> As that site goes on to note,
> >> The mistake here lies not in the numbers but in the words &#8220;Christian&#8221; and &#8220;Muslim&#8221;. Sometimes religion is a cause &#8211; or at least an excuse &#8211; like in the bombings by Christian extremist Eric Rudolph or the genocide in Sudan. But most often it is not. Calling, say, the 9/11 terrorists &#8220;Muslim&#8221; is like calling Hitler &#8220;Christian&#8221;: true yet misleading. It is Islamophobia, not a serious attempt to understand the world as it is. <<
> 
> The entire basis of this thread -- that the subject is "Muslims" -- is bogus.  And it has been from the start.  That's what Luddly means by "Muslims are not our enemy. Terrorists are".
> 
> 
> 
> Is this thread somehow trying to define better who a supposed enemy is maybe or who he is hiding behind ? Yes it can be disputed for sure, but if there had been no killings or no bombings at the hands of who ever these people are doing the killing right now, and in this nation, and in this time period (i.e. currently, not hundreds or thousands of years ago), then the thread or attitude wouldn't exist at all now would it ? How come the government doesn't help educate the American public better ? Shouldn't that be a part of their job in this nation ? Why have they been so distant in these matters (letting imaginations run wild like they are)?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It isn't the government's role to keep the public informed; it's the media's.  And the pitfalls of _*that *_are both self-evident and worthy of their own thread.
> 
> This goes right back to the points in post 372.  Please read it.  It's addressed to you.
> 
> But yes, threads like this would exist even if the media were evenhanded and the public were evenly informed.  Because as long as bigots like Bleach Boy exist, they'll try to stir up the shit by demonizing a race or a religion or whatever they can come up with, to spread their own ignorance.
Click to expand...

372 ? How about a page number, that would help me better, then I can get there from there..


----------



## beagle9

Pogo said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem I see here is bigotry.
> 
> The OP Beachboy is a bigot, an Islamaphobe, who is a reflection of a lot of ignorant people.
> 
> If Islam is the peoblem and if we need to be fearful of Muslims then I say we ought to have the same sentiment towards Christians.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what you need to do or try to inspire..... Good luck with that one.. Running out of things to say are we ?
> 
> Has any Christians killed anyone you know lately ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Eric Rudolph was trolling around in areas near where I live, literally in places I physically go to.  One of his bombing targets (in Georgia) was in a place where I shop.
> 
> Is this so hard to fathom, just because it doesn't fit the scary-monster narrative?
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what you need to do or try to inspire..... Good luck with that one.. Running out of things to say are we ?
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... and I don't really think the thread is condemning them, only speaking of caution with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is there some reason you remain deliberately ignorant of what this thread is made of?  Even after I summarized it for you?
> At this point you're just looking stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Eric was caught and dealt with right ? But for some reason we dance around other situations or people who might be doing things. (not accusing Muslims), but this has gone on with many groups involved or intertwined in politics now or in the past in this nation.
Click to expand...


----------



## Aristotle

S.J. said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what you need to do or try to inspire..... Good luck with that one.. Running out of things to say are we ?
> 
> Has any Christians killed anyone you know lately ? Hey I am for Muslims, as long as they are for me, and I don't really think the thread is condemning them, only speaking of caution with them, and to whether or not they are actually compatible with the Christians who live here in peace right ? Some here speak of conflict dating way back, and how many have died and so on and so forth in these conflicts between the two, so it is a legitimate opinion of caution to wonder about it all in light of the recent events, and whether it is actually compatible or not. It's really up to all of them, but is this the proving ground now? I just hope that we all can get along somehow, as I love all peoples and diversity in the nation, but it must remain peaceful & American as the umbrella hanging over it all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If this thread is to caution us against Muslims then I say I must caution myself against Christians. I have had more bad dealings with Christians than Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would think you would be more concerned about drive-by's if you live in Compton.
Click to expand...



I am more worried about stupid ass Christians who bomb abortion clinics


----------



## S.J.

Aristotle said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> If this thread is to caution us against Muslims then I say I must caution myself against Christians. I have had more bad dealings with Christians than Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> I would think you would be more concerned about drive-by's if you live in Compton.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I am more worried about stupid ass Christians who bomb abortion clinics
Click to expand...

Why, is that where you hang out?


----------



## Pogo

beagle9 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is this thread somehow trying to define better who a supposed enemy is maybe or who he is hiding behind ? Yes it can be disputed for sure, but if there had been no killings or no bombings at the hands of who ever these people are doing the killing right now, and in this nation, and in this time period (i.e. currently, not hundreds or thousands of years ago), then the thread or attitude wouldn't exist at all now would it ? How come the government doesn't help educate the American public better ? Shouldn't that be a part of their job in this nation ? Why have they been so distant in these matters (letting imaginations run wild like they are)?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't the government's role to keep the public informed; it's the media's.  And the pitfalls of _*that *_are both self-evident and worthy of their own thread.
> 
> This goes right back to the points in post 372.  Please read it.  It's addressed to you.
> 
> But yes, threads like this would exist even if the media were evenhanded and the public were evenly informed.  Because as long as bigots like Bleach Boy exist, they'll try to stir up the shit by demonizing a race or a religion or whatever they can come up with, to spread their own ignorance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 372 ? How about a page number, that would help me better, then I can get there from there..
Click to expand...


Cheeses Christ, lift a finger and help yourself already.  You're as bad as Pontiac-boy whining that he doesn't get links and then we give him six pages of links and he complains they're not videos.  You guys that need somebody to hold your hand... smh

Post 372, just get off your lazy ass and *do it*.  What page it's on depends on how you have your format set up.  Stop this running away from points you're afraid to see.



Sorry - I have a short fuse for intellectual sloth.


----------



## Pogo

beagle9 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what you need to do or try to inspire..... Good luck with that one.. Running out of things to say are we ?
> 
> Has any Christians killed anyone you know lately ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eric Rudolph was trolling around in areas near where I live, literally in places I physically go to.  One of his bombing targets (in Georgia) was in a place where I shop.
> 
> Is this so hard to fathom, just because it doesn't fit the scary-monster narrative?
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what you need to do or try to inspire..... Good luck with that one.. Running out of things to say are we ?
> 
> 
> 
> Is there some reason you remain deliberately ignorant of what this thread is made of?  Even after I summarized it for you?
> At this point you're just looking stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Eric was caught and dealt with right ? But for some reason we dance around other situations or people who might be doing things. (not accusing Muslims), but this has gone on with many groups involved or intertwined in politics now or in the past in this nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey you just asked about the proximity of Christian terrorists.  So I gave you one.  Deal with it.
Click to expand...


----------



## beagle9

Aristotle said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> If this thread is to caution us against Muslims then I say I must caution myself against Christians. I have had more bad dealings with Christians than Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> I would think you would be more concerned about drive-by's if you live in Compton.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I am more worried about stupid ass Christians who bomb abortion clinics
Click to expand...

They are dealt with also, next post please..


----------



## Pogo

Aristotle said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> If this thread is to caution us against Muslims then I say I must caution myself against Christians. I have had more bad dealings with Christians than Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> I would think you would be more concerned about drive-by's if you live in Compton.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I am more worried about stupid ass Christians who bomb abortion clinics
Click to expand...


-- and that is a terrorist act that actually IS related to religion.  Unlike, say, the OP.


----------



## beagle9

Pogo said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eric Rudolph was trolling around in areas near where I live, literally in places I physically go to.  One of his bombing targets (in Georgia) was in a place where I shop.
> 
> Is this so hard to fathom, just because it doesn't fit the scary-monster narrative?
> 
> 
> Eric was caught and dealt with right ? But for some reason we dance around other situations or people who might be doing things. (not accusing Muslims), but this has gone on with many groups involved or intertwined in politics now or in the past in this nation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey you just asked about the proximity of Christian terrorists.  So I gave you one.  Deal with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked you what ?
Click to expand...


----------



## beagle9

Pogo said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't the government's role to keep the public informed; it's the media's.  And the pitfalls of _*that *_are both self-evident and worthy of their own thread.
> 
> This goes right back to the points in post 372.  Please read it.  It's addressed to you.
> 
> But yes, threads like this would exist even if the media were evenhanded and the public were evenly informed.  Because as long as bigots like Bleach Boy exist, they'll try to stir up the shit by demonizing a race or a religion or whatever they can come up with, to spread their own ignorance.
> 
> 
> 
> 372 ? How about a page number, that would help me better, then I can get there from there..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cheeses Christ, lift a finger and help yourself already.  You're as bad as Pontiac-boy whining that he doesn't get links and then we give him six pages of links and he complains they're not videos.  You guys that need somebody to hold your hand... smh
> 
> Post 372, just get off your lazy ass and *do it*.  What page it's on depends on how you have your format set up.  Stop this running away from points you're afraid to see.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry - I have a short fuse for intellectual sloth.
Click to expand...

lol, I must have the wrong format, cuz it only shows page numbers, not post numbers..


----------



## beagle9

Gotta go to sleep now, so check yall later...


----------



## Aristotle

S.J. said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would think you would be more concerned about drive-by's if you live in Compton.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am more worried about stupid ass Christians who bomb abortion clinics
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why, is that where you hang out?
Click to expand...


Nope. Its what is demonstrated through modern Christianity.


The problem with you Christians is you spend so much time slandering a people who like yourselves, believe in One God. You spend so much time fear mongering that your actions turn people away from the true message of Christ.



The true essence of Christ which you seem to lack is a coming together of all humans, forgiving those humans who transgress universal morals, and to right the wrongs of society by being cognizant of the higher authority.


----------



## Pogo

beagle9 said:


> Gotta go to sleep now, so check yall later...



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAp9sFVdERQ]Run away! - Monty Python and the Holy Grail - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Esmeralda

beagle9 said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, but who strikes out or draws blood first among these different sects in which you have labeled in some of these instances (a lot of history to cover) ? Did the Americans draw first blood on Islam or was it the other way around ? Are we defenders or aggressors in the war on terror ? I would like to think that we are the defenders of our allies and this nation in any war we engage in, but the history has to be looked at in detail and with eyes wide open in order to know the situations and the history that has brought us to where we are right now.   Can the scrutiny of Islam and it's radical wing with stand the test if we are to try and get to the bottom of it all ? Is there a partner in these crimes that has gone unseen so far ? You know I have found that these Indians from India seem to be a peaceful people who are here now, and that is good. I have seemingly good friends with these folks, although they are different in their ways, but so far not a hateful group it seems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The American government has killed by far more Muslims than Muslims have killed Americans. * In fact, you could put all the Westerners and non-Muslims together who have been killed by Muslim terrorists, and you would still have a very small number compared to the number of Muslims killed by the American government and their allies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And why is this you suppose that the American government as you claim has killed more Muslims than Muslims have killed Americans  ? Do you think the American government just kills people for no reason at all, and if so why are you here or are you here in this country ?  If you think this, then you are a nutter according to some on this board, so are you a nutter who thinks the American government expends billions of it's treasure chasing down Muslims and killing them for nothing ? By allies do you mean specifcally the Jews ?  Help me to understand this position you hold on our government.
Click to expand...


Let's see....what were the Muslims in Iraq doing to Americans when America went in and started a war against them?  How many innocent civilians did America kill in that war?  I know much of the violence was sectarian, Shia against Sunni, but before we went in there and started a war, they were not killing each other; in the end, directly and indirectly, the USA is responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths of Muslims.  How many innocent people has the US killed in Afghanistan as "collateral damage"? How many during the Gulf War?  How man in Somalia?  In Tripoli?  The list goes on and on.  What's the US got to do with any of these places? How it is our right to fight wars around the world, killing innocent civilians as "collateral damage"?  Do you think these people thank us for that?  And our ally, Israel: one or two Israelis die in a rocket attack from Palestine, and Israel responds by killing hundreds of Palestinians, most totally innocent children, women, and old men.  Do you think these people overlook the fact that the US supports Israel?  

Yes, in response to your question, our government and its allies kill thousands of innocent Muslim people every year for no good reason.

The Boston Marathon terrorist called the people who died 'collateral damage.'  Do you think that's coming out of nowhere?  Put two and two together.  I am not saying, btw, he is justified in his actions, so don't go there. Try to be a bit more intelligent than that.


----------



## Aristotle

Pogo said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would think you would be more concerned about drive-by's if you live in Compton.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am more worried about stupid ass Christians who bomb abortion clinics
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> -- and that is a terrorist act that actually IS related to religion.  Unlike, say, the OP.
Click to expand...


Exactly


----------



## S.J.

Aristotle said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am more worried about stupid ass Christians who bomb abortion clinics
> 
> 
> 
> Why, is that where you hang out?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. Its what is demonstrated through modern Christianity.
> 
> 
> The problem with you Christians is you spend so much time slandering a people who like yourselves, believe in One God. You spend so much time fear mongering that your actions turn people away from the true message of Christ.
> 
> 
> 
> The true essence of Christ which you seem to lack is a coming together of all humans, forgiving those humans who transgress universal morals, and to right the wrongs of society by being cognizant of the higher authority.
Click to expand...

I hardly would call it slander to not want to invite people into our country who are notorious for murdering us.  But I guess you feel safe, since they don't usually target the ghettos.


----------



## Aristotle

S.J. said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why, is that where you hang out?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. Its what is demonstrated through modern Christianity.
> 
> 
> The problem with you Christians is you spend so much time slandering a people who like yourselves, believe in One God. You spend so much time fear mongering that your actions turn people away from the true message of Christ.
> 
> 
> 
> The true essence of Christ which you seem to lack is a coming together of all humans, forgiving those humans who transgress universal morals, and to right the wrongs of society by being cognizant of the higher authority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I hardly would call it slander to not want to invite people into our country who are notorious for murdering us.  But I guess you feel safe, since they don't usually target the ghettos.
Click to expand...


I don't know why you make stupid remarks about where I live. I hardly live in the ghetto.

It may not be slander to you, but your views is a representation of the lack of intelligence along with compassion. I have many Muslim friends who share the same love and respect for this country as I.


----------



## S.J.

Aristotle said:


> I have many Muslim friends who share the same love and respect for this country as I.


That's what bothers me.


----------



## Aristotle

S.J. said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have many Muslim friends who share the same love and respect for this country as I.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what bothers me.
Click to expand...


What bothers you?

That I believe every human being deserves life, liberty and to pursue what makes them happy. To have faith in our impartial judicial system. To defend the helpless. To accept all people regardless of race, religion, sex. Yeah S.J you're Red Neck philosophical thinking is showing...


----------



## S.J.

Aristotle said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have many Muslim friends who share the same love and respect for this country as I.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what bothers me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What bothers you?
> 
> That I believe every human being deserves life, liberty and to pursue what makes them happy. To have faith in our impartial judicial system. To defend the helpless. To accept all people regardless of race, religion, sex. Yeah S.J you're Red Neck philosophical thinking is showing...
Click to expand...

What bothers me is that your muslim friends share the same love and respect for this country as you, which is none.


----------



## Aristotle

S.J. said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what bothers me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What bothers you?
> 
> That I believe every human being deserves life, liberty and to pursue what makes them happy. To have faith in our impartial judicial system. To defend the helpless. To accept all people regardless of race, religion, sex. Yeah S.J you're Red Neck philosophical thinking is showing...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What bothers me is that your muslim friends share the same love and respect for this country as you, which is none.
Click to expand...


How do you know I have no respect for this country? Please quote me anywhere in this thread or elsewhere where I have demonstrated my lack of love, respect, or whatever for this country. Please enlighten me. You apparently know me outside this board.


----------



## S.J.

Aristotle said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> What bothers you?
> 
> That I believe every human being deserves life, liberty and to pursue what makes them happy. To have faith in our impartial judicial system. To defend the helpless. To accept all people regardless of race, religion, sex. Yeah S.J you're Red Neck philosophical thinking is showing...
> 
> 
> 
> What bothers me is that your muslim friends share the same love and respect for this country as you, which is none.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How do you know I have no respect for this country? Please quote me anywhere in this thread or elsewhere where I have demonstrated my lack of love, respect, or whatever for this country. Please enlighten me. You apparently know me outside this board.
Click to expand...

I know your type.  You have about as much respect for this country as our current president, zero.


----------



## Aristotle

S.J. said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> What bothers me is that your muslim friends share the same love and respect for this country as you, which is none.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know I have no respect for this country? Please quote me anywhere in this thread or elsewhere where I have demonstrated my lack of love, respect, or whatever for this country. Please enlighten me. You apparently know me outside this board.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know your type.  You have about as much respect for this country as our current president, zero.
Click to expand...


What is my "type?"

You are making assumptions and can't even explain what the fuck your assuming about. I want to know what is my type CHRISTIAN. A basic rule when conversing with someone is to substantiate your claim if you make a statement as fact.


----------



## S.J.

Aristotle said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know I have no respect for this country? Please quote me anywhere in this thread or elsewhere where I have demonstrated my lack of love, respect, or whatever for this country. Please enlighten me. You apparently know me outside this board.
> 
> 
> 
> I know your type.  You have about as much respect for this country as our current president, zero.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is my "type?"
> 
> You are making assumptions and can't even explain what the fuck your assuming about. I want to know what is my type CHRISTIAN. A basic rule when conversing with someone is to substantiate your claim if you make a statement as fact.
Click to expand...

Let's get something straight, homie.  You don't dictate anything to me, including how I converse.  You want an answer to your question, read your own posts, you arrogant prick.


----------



## Unkotare

Aristotle said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Los Angeles--Born and raised in Compton California
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, are you stupid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I grow tired of your childish comments
Click to expand...




Does being stupid make you feel tired? Go take a nap then.


----------



## Esmeralda

Beachboy said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims are the ones who shoot up Sikh temples, numskull.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  Are you sure of that?
> 
> Because the temple shooting was actually done by a former Army person who was also a white supremacist.....................
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On August 5, 2012, Wade Michael Page fatally shot six people and wounded four others in a mass shooting at a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin.[3][4] Page committed suicide by shooting himself in the head after he was shot in the stomach by a responding police officer.
> 
> *Page was an American white supremacist and United States Army veteran from Cudahy, Wisconsin*. All of the dead were members of the Sikh faith. The incident drew notable reactions from President Barack Obama and Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. Dignitaries attended candlelight vigils in countries such as the U.S., Canada, and India.[3][5][6] The First Lady Michelle Obama visited the temple on August 23, 2012.[7]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If it is not about the foreign Muslims it is about the uninformed ultra leftists.  ABikerSailor goes on and on and on about Hindus, Sikhs, and Muslims.  Have I said anything about Hindus or Sikhs?  NO.
> 
> Have I said anything about the Oak Creek Temple shootings?  NO
> 
> The reason is simple.  It is off-topic.  Now how much dumber could a poster be than to bring up a subject that no one is talking about, which makes all his own pro-Muslim arguments look ridiculous.  Please keep it up, I love having you post information that supports my point of view.
> 
> *Bottom line;  If we did not allow Muslim foreigners into the United States **there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  *
> 
> * Yes it brings a chuckle because it is simple, but remember foreign Muslims are UNREPENTANT **murderers** and **traitors of your fellow American citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *​
Click to expand...


So the actual photo is of about 20 people and you photoshop it to repeat over and over to look like a hundred.  That's honest.....not.  Typical propaganda.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Okay _Maroons_, What about THIS _Muslin_? We know he is anti-America and we know he feeds you rw nutters a steady diet of shit. But, I'll be that not one of you will admit that you suck up ever word he puts in front of you. 

Stupid fools.


----------



## Beachboy

Esmeralda said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  Are you sure of that?
> 
> Because the temple shooting was actually done by a former Army person who was also a white supremacist.....................
> 
> Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is not about the foreign Muslims it is about the uninformed ultra leftists.  ABikerSailor goes on and on and on about Hindus, Sikhs, and Muslims.  Have I said anything about Hindus or Sikhs?  NO.
> 
> Have I said anything about the Oak Creek Temple shootings?  NO
> 
> The reason is simple.  It is off-topic.  Now how much dumber could a poster be than to bring up a subject that no one is talking about, which makes all his own pro-Muslim arguments look ridiculous.  Please keep it up, I love having you post information that supports my point of view.
> 
> *Bottom line;  If we did not allow Muslim foreigners into the United States **there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  *
> 
> * Yes it brings a chuckle because it is simple, but remember foreign Muslims are UNREPENTANT **murderers** and **traitors of your fellow American citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So the actual photo is of about 20 people and you photoshop it to repeat over and over to look like a hundred.  That's honest.....not.  Typical propaganda.
Click to expand...

*
We have 419 posts in this thread.  The photoshop dodge was already tried.  Too bad, but I don't have photo shop.  I got it in Google images, and here is a link, there are many more just like it.  https://www.google.com/search?q=Mas...LzyAHlvYGQDA&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=992 

And, another Muslim propagandist bites the dust!

Why do I get the feeling that YOU have been photo shopping pics from 9-11 and the Boston Marathon Bombings*


----------



## theHawk

Islam, isn't it great?






Soldier killed in attack near London barracks, lawmaker says - CNN.com


----------



## Kondor3

Another self-appointed pi$$ant Muslim Jihadist..


----------



## PoliticalStench

Aristotle said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> What bothers you?
> 
> That I believe every human being deserves life, liberty and to pursue what makes them happy. To have faith in our impartial judicial system. To defend the helpless. To accept all people regardless of race, religion, sex. Yeah S.J you're Red Neck philosophical thinking is showing...
> 
> 
> 
> What bothers me is that your muslim friends share the same love and respect for this country as you, which is none.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How do you know I have no respect for this country? Please quote me anywhere in this thread or elsewhere where I have demonstrated my lack of love, respect, or whatever for this country. Please enlighten me. You apparently know me outside this board.
Click to expand...


Hi. Reading some of the posts and noticed you talk about Christianity.  Just curious...How do you define yourself as a Christian?  I am a Born Again Christian. Btw, what is that guy smoking in your avatar?  John 10:10...Jesus came so that we would have life... Don't remember reading that Jesus told his followers to be slaughtered by members of a religion that worships death/suicide and murders those who don't bow down to what they believe.

It's not about hating Muslims, it's about wondering who your neighbors are. It's about wondering about the person who was your friend last year but who has been radicalized since then and now wants to kill you. It's about wondering who is who and who is just smiling in your face and pretending to your friend while biding time.


----------



## PoliticalStench

Aristotle said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem I see here is bigotry.
> 
> The OP Beachboy is a bigot, an Islamaphobe, who is a reflection of a lot of ignorant people.
> 
> If Islam is the peoblem and if we need to be fearful of Muslims then I say we ought to have the same sentiment towards Christians.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what you need to do or try to inspire..... Good luck with that one.. Running out of things to say are we ?
> 
> Has any Christians killed anyone you know lately ? Hey I am for Muslims, as long as they are for me, and I don't really think the thread is condemning them, only speaking of caution with them, and to whether or not they are actually compatible with the Christians who live here in peace right ? Some here speak of conflict dating way back, and how many have died and so on and so forth in these conflicts between the two, so it is a legitimate opinion of caution to wonder about it all in light of the recent events, and whether it is actually compatible or not. It's really up to all of them, but is this the proving ground now? I just hope that we all can get along somehow, as I love all peoples and diversity in the nation, but it must remain peaceful & American as the umbrella hanging over it all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If this thread is to caution us against Muslims then I say I must caution myself against Christians. I have had more bad dealings with Christians than Muslims.
Click to expand...


Please elaborate. I'd like to know what bad dealings you've had with Christians. Christians are human, not perfect. But I'd be curious to know if a Christian has ever beheaded someone you love or strapped on a IED vest and killed someone you cared about.  Maybe you're familiar with the New Testament and know that Jesus never told His followers to kill nonbelievers if they don't convert.  Maybe you're familiar with  passages in the Koran that permit violence towards "the infidel.


----------



## PoliticalStench

Pogo said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think the Founding Fathers anticipated waves of 'Mohammedans' positioning themselves inside the country and waiting until they'd built-up a local majority and then beginning to clamor about Sharia Law and other related issues, otherwise, they would probably have embedded a Poison Pill within the Constitution to prevent it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They did.  As you just ironically noted below; the First Amendment.
> Sharia is a non starter.  It's got one use here, and that's the blogospheremongers overplaying the role of Chicken Little.
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank God (_the Judeo-Christian vision of God, mind you_   ) for separation of Church and State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Caustic irony noted
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If memory serves, Separation of Mosque and State has not worked well elsewhere in the world for any considerable span of time except, perhaps, in modern Turkey, but there's always hope... ;-)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agreed, Turkey is a good example of the potential.  On the other hand, thirteen hundred years after its own founding, Christianism didn't have much of a record of separation of church and state either.  Matter of fact it had none whatsoever; it was engorged in being the First Estate power source for the royal aristocracy and the tool of the latter to keep the populace in an inferior position; it had yet to see even dissent within its own structure in Martin Luther; and it was burning infidels alive in the public square.  The equivalent of a Turkey was still centuries off.
> 
> Such mob perversion seems to be the price of organized dogma.
Click to expand...



The murder of the British solider today is another wake up call. Being concerned is miles apart from "chicken little." I'm amazed at the number of people who are willing to keep their heads in the sand.  This country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles... not Sharia Law. I have no problem with people practicing Sharia Law, just not in the United States.   It is no secret that members of the "religion of peace" want Islam to dominate the world or else....there are verses in the Koran that approve of violence towards  "infidels."  Why keep looking the other way and give radicalism a foothold?  Concerns about the Nazis, who had Muslim supporters, should have been "over played."


----------



## PoliticalStench

Aristotle said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Crickets*
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean, "crickets"?  Just because there are more muslims in Michigan than everywhere else, doesn't mean there would be more violence in Michigan.  You're desperate to make a point but you've made no point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because you allude to a generalization that does not represent Muslim opinion. Muslims don't come here to terrorize Americans. Muslims, who migrate here want a life like any other U.S citizen.
Click to expand...


You mean like the guy who murdered the British soldier today in Britain by near decapitation? He was reportedly yelling Allahu Ackbar. He definitely said it was an "eye for an eye"  Maybe he wasn't happy with the British gov't taking his family in and giving them jobs and/or immigrant assistance.


----------



## Pogo

PoliticalStench said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think the Founding Fathers anticipated waves of 'Mohammedans' positioning themselves inside the country and waiting until they'd built-up a local majority and then beginning to clamor about Sharia Law and other related issues, otherwise, they would probably have embedded a Poison Pill within the Constitution to prevent it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They did.  As you just ironically noted below; the First Amendment.
> Sharia is a non starter.  It's got one use here, and that's the blogospheremongers overplaying the role of Chicken Little.
> 
> 
> 
> Caustic irony noted
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If memory serves, Separation of Mosque and State has not worked well elsewhere in the world for any considerable span of time except, perhaps, in modern Turkey, but there's always hope... ;-)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agreed, Turkey is a good example of the potential.  On the other hand, thirteen hundred years after its own founding, Christianism didn't have much of a record of separation of church and state either.  Matter of fact it had none whatsoever; it was engorged in being the First Estate power source for the royal aristocracy and the tool of the latter to keep the populace in an inferior position; it had yet to see even dissent within its own structure in Martin Luther; and it was burning infidels alive in the public square.  The equivalent of a Turkey was still centuries off.
> 
> Such mob perversion seems to be the price of organized dogma.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The murder of the British solider today is another wake up call. Being concerned is miles apart from "chicken little." I'm amazed at the number of people who are willing to keep their heads in the sand.  *This country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles*... not Sharia Law. I have no problem with people practicing Sharia Law, just not in the United States.   It is no secret that members of the "religion of peace" want Islam to dominate the world or else....there are verses in the Koran that approve of violence towards  "infidels."  Why keep looking the other way and give radicalism a foothold?  Concerns about the Nazis, who had Muslim supporters, should have been "over played."
Click to expand...


No, actually it was founded on Liberalism -- which means the State gets out of the way and lets people be, including, importantly, in matters of religious observance.  Obviously that doesn't extend to a Sharia practice that infringes on another person, which is why I said Sharia is a non-starter.  Ain't gonna happen.  But neither is the OP's bigoted anti-Semitic crusade based on singling out a specific religion, an idea that spits on everything this country stands for.

The references to Christian terrorists are not to be taken deeply -- that's just playing along with the fallacy of the OP who holds that bad things are directly attributable to one specific relition (but not others); taking that faulty logic to its conclusion we find far too many examples from Xianity that disprove the fallacy of Islam.

But as noted back in 380, and throughout this thread, the idea that religion is behind everything bad is absurd; and the idea that this applies only to one religion, doubly so.  Religions do not commit violence or terrorism; people do.

So the comparisons to Christianism are here to easily disprove the original broad-brush fallacy for the non-argument it is.

HTH.


----------



## PoliticalStench

Aristotle said:


> The above picture solidifies why most Americans are stupid



See, this is what I think Barack Obama thinks.  There is a distinct ugliness in those who think they are intellectually superior.  Snobbery from the poster who condemns others for not being more accepting. But then again, it's suspect when someone says they've had problems in dealing with Christians but praise Muslims, when we're all human and fallible.  Suspect indeed. I've had problems in dealing with all sorts of people.


----------



## Pogo

PoliticalStench said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> The above picture solidifies why most Americans are stupid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See, this is what I think Barack Obama thinks.  There is a distinct ugliness in those who think they are intellectually superior.  Snobbery from the poster who condemns others for not being more accepting. But then again, it's suspect when someone says they've had problems in dealing with Christians but praise Muslims, when we're all human and fallible.  Suspect indeed. I've had problems in dealing with all sorts of people.
Click to expand...


Nobody's "praised" Muslims here; in fact nobody's said squat about Muslims or Islam except for the bigot in the OP and a couple of his peanut gallery, all wallowing in negative stereotypes.

Where do you see this "praise" then?


----------



## PoliticalStench

Pogo said:


> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> They did.  As you just ironically noted below; the First Amendment.
> Sharia is a non starter.  It's got one use here, and that's the blogospheremongers overplaying the role of Chicken Little.
> 
> 
> 
> Caustic irony noted
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed, Turkey is a good example of the potential.  On the other hand, thirteen hundred years after its own founding, Christianism didn't have much of a record of separation of church and state either.  Matter of fact it had none whatsoever; it was engorged in being the First Estate power source for the royal aristocracy and the tool of the latter to keep the populace in an inferior position; it had yet to see even dissent within its own structure in Martin Luther; and it was burning infidels alive in the public square.  The equivalent of a Turkey was still centuries off.
> 
> Such mob perversion seems to be the price of organized dogma.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The murder of the British solider today is another wake up call. Being concerned is miles apart from "chicken little." I'm amazed at the number of people who are willing to keep their heads in the sand.  *This country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles*... not Sharia Law. I have no problem with people practicing Sharia Law, just not in the United States.   It is no secret that members of the "religion of peace" want Islam to dominate the world or else....there are verses in the Koran that approve of violence towards  "infidels."  Why keep looking the other way and give radicalism a foothold?  Concerns about the Nazis, who had Muslim supporters, should have been "over played."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, actually it was founded on Liberalism -- which means the State gets out of the way and lets people be, including, importantly, in matters of religious observance.  Obviously that doesn't extend to a Sharia practice that infringes on another person, which is why I said Sharia is a non-starter.  Ain't gonna happen.  But neither is the OP's bigoted anti-Semitic crusade based on singling out a specific religion, an idea that spits on everything this country stands for.
> 
> The references to Christian terrorists are not to be taken deeply -- that's just playing along with the fallacy of the OP who holds that bad things are directly attributable to one specific relition (but not others); taking that faulty logic to its conclusion we find far too many examples from Xianity that disprove the fallacy of Islam.
> 
> But as noted back in , (SNIP...could not post with URL) and throughout this thread, the idea that religion is behind everything bad is absurd; and the idea that this applies only to one religion, doubly so.  Religions do not commit violence or terrorism; people do.
> 
> So the comparisons to Christianism are here to easily disprove the original broad-brush fallacy for the non-argument it is.
> 
> HTH.
Click to expand...


No, it was founded on Judeo-Christian principles. History tells us this and references to the Creator are in our founding documents. Our life and liberty come from the Creator and not man. It may be hard for you to swallow but that's okay. You are free to believe what you like...just keep it real.

I'm not accusing all Muslims of terrorism...that would be untrue and ridiculous, but there are  verses in the Koran that approve of violence towards "infidels". Not so in the Bible regarding nonbelievers. Religions do not commit terrorism, but religious beliefs (If a person believes a revered prophet  or their god tells them to murder in order to go to heaven) or religious texts can and have proven to influence people positively and negatively.  Just how many people will be influenced in the future or are influenced now is any body's guess.  That's what is un-nerving. The Tsarnaev brothers weren't always radical in their beliefs...but that didn't stop them from blowing up people who were out to enjoy a beautiful day with friends and family.


----------



## PoliticalStench

Aristotle said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> If this thread is to caution us against Muslims then I say I must caution myself against Christians. I have had more bad dealings with Christians than Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> I would think you would be more concerned about drive-by's if you live in Compton.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I am more worried about stupid ass Christians who bomb abortion clinics
Click to expand...


What a blanket statement from someone who is so "tolerant" and warns others about lumping all Muslims together but has no problem making a sweeping statement about Christians. What proof do you have that they were Christian? I mean...radical Muslims yell "allahu ackbar before they unleash hell on others. How many abortion clinics have been bombed? As many bombings as Islamist terrorists have been successful with?  I'm not condoning murder, which includes abortion btw. But who has the higher murder count?...the jihadist or the whack job abortion bomber?


----------



## PoliticalStench

Pogo said:


> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> The above picture solidifies why most Americans are stupid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See, this is what I think Barack Obama thinks.  There is a distinct ugliness in those who think they are intellectually superior.  Snobbery from the poster who condemns others for not being more accepting. But then again, it's suspect when someone says they've had problems in dealing with Christians but praise Muslims, when we're all human and fallible.  Suspect indeed. I've had problems in dealing with all sorts of people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nobody's "praised" Muslims here; in fact nobody's said squat about Muslims or Islam except for the bigot in the OP and a couple of his peanut gallery, all wallowing in negative stereotypes.
> 
> Where do you see this "praise" then?
Click to expand...


I wasn't referring to you.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

PoliticalStench said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what you need to do or try to inspire..... Good luck with that one.. Running out of things to say are we ?
> 
> Has any Christians killed anyone you know lately ? Hey I am for Muslims, as long as they are for me, and I don't really think the thread is condemning them, only speaking of caution with them, and to whether or not they are actually compatible with the Christians who live here in peace right ? Some here speak of conflict dating way back, and how many have died and so on and so forth in these conflicts between the two, so it is a legitimate opinion of caution to wonder about it all in light of the recent events, and whether it is actually compatible or not. It's really up to all of them, but is this the proving ground now? I just hope that we all can get along somehow, as I love all peoples and diversity in the nation, but it must remain peaceful & American as the umbrella hanging over it all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If this thread is to caution us against Muslims then I say I must caution myself against Christians. I have had more bad dealings with Christians than Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please elaborate. I'd like to know what bad dealings you've had with Christians. Christians are human, not perfect. But I'd be curious to know if a Christian has ever beheaded someone you love or strapped on a IED vest and killed someone you cared about.  Maybe you're familiar with the New Testament and know that Jesus never told His followers to kill nonbelievers if they don't convert.  Maybe you're familiar with  passages in the Koran that permit violence towards "the infidel.
Click to expand...


My own experience is that Christians will lie, cheat and steal and when that doesn't give them what they want, they'll stab you in the back.  If you don't know that Christians have  beheaded, maimed (IED) or killed to further their agenda, you really don't know the the history of Christianity. Some Christians even teach how to lie to get what they want. 



> This country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles... not Sharia Law. I have no problem with people practicing Sharia Law, just not in the United States.



I'll bet you are lying. 

Do you support a woman's right to control her own body and her right to decide when and if she reproduces?

How about the very basic right to the pursuit of happiness with the person you love?

Nope. I'll bet you, and your religion, believe 100% that the state should control women and gays.

The definition of Sharia Law is law (morals) based on religion and I'd bet money that your religion believes 100% that abortion and marriage equality should be illegal. 

More BIG government from an rw who says he believes in small government. 

Color me surprised. 

NOT.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Luddly Neddite said:


> Okay _Maroons_, What about THIS _Muslin_? We know he is anti-America and we know he feeds you rw nutters a steady diet of shit. But, I'll be that not one of you will admit that you suck up ever word he puts in front of you.
> 
> Stupid fools.




I notice that none of the fux lovers have commented on this. 

Pretty hard to defend hating Muslims while getting your news from one. 

IGNORANT DAMN HYPOCRITES.


----------



## Kondor3

Luddly Neddite said:


> "..._The definition of Sharia Law is law (morals) based on religion and I'd bet money that your religion believes 100% that abortion and marriage equality should be illegal_..."


Yes, of course...

But we all know how tolerant _Islam_ is of gays, too, right?


----------



## Pogo

PoliticalStench said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> See, this is what I think Barack Obama thinks.  There is a distinct ugliness in those who think they are intellectually superior.  Snobbery from the poster who condemns others for not being more accepting. But then again, it's suspect when someone says they've had problems in dealing with Christians but praise Muslims, when we're all human and fallible.  Suspect indeed. I've had problems in dealing with all sorts of people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody's "praised" Muslims here; in fact nobody's said squat about Muslims or Islam except for the bigot in the OP and a couple of his peanut gallery, all wallowing in negative stereotypes.
> 
> Where do you see this "praise" then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wasn't referring to you.
Click to expand...


I didn't say you were.  I said 'where do you see this "praise" of Muslims?'  From anybody?


----------



## PoliticalStench

Luddly Neddite said:


> What about Americans whose religion is Muslim?
> 
> What would you nutters do about them?



Send them to your house.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Kondor3 said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._The definition of Sharia Law is law (morals) based on religion and I'd bet money that your religion believes 100% that abortion and marriage equality should be illegal_..."
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, of course...
> 
> But we all know how tolerant _Islam_ is of gays, too, right?
Click to expand...


I live in the United States. 

In MY country, "Christians" do not tolerate anything but white heterosexual men. 

Bob and dodge and twist and shout all you want. FACT is, Sharia law is law based on religious beliefs. It is literally the opposite of US laws and the founding of the US was based on. 

Christians DO believe in their own wacko version of Sharia law. Amazingly, they also are very open in wanting to trash our most basic Constitutionally-guaranteed rights.


----------



## Kondor3

Luddly Neddite said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._The definition of Sharia Law is law (morals) based on religion and I'd bet money that your religion believes 100% that abortion and marriage equality should be illegal_..."
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, of course...
> 
> But we all know how tolerant _Islam_ is of gays, too, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I live in the United States.
> 
> In MY country, "Christians" do not tolerate anything but white heterosexual men.
> 
> Bob and dodge and twist and shout all you want. FACT is, Sharia law is law based on religious beliefs. It is literally the opposite of US laws and the founding of the US was based on.
> 
> Christians DO believe in their own wacko version of Sharia law. Amazingly, they also are very open in wanting to trash our most basic Constitutionally-guaranteed rights.
Click to expand...


Ahhhhh... you just have an axe to grind against Christians... and will defend Muslims at the expense of Christians... OK... got it, now.

You'll find the 'Religion' forum and some really juicy Christian-bashing threads just down the hall, second door to the right... can't miss it.


----------



## Pogo

PoliticalStench said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> The murder of the British solider today is another wake up call. Being concerned is miles apart from "chicken little." I'm amazed at the number of people who are willing to keep their heads in the sand.  *This country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles*... not Sharia Law. I have no problem with people practicing Sharia Law, just not in the United States.   It is no secret that members of the "religion of peace" want Islam to dominate the world or else....there are verses in the Koran that approve of violence towards  "infidels."  Why keep looking the other way and give radicalism a foothold?  Concerns about the Nazis, who had Muslim supporters, should have been "over played."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, actually it was founded on Liberalism -- which means the State gets out of the way and lets people be, including, importantly, in matters of religious observance.  Obviously that doesn't extend to a Sharia practice that infringes on another person, which is why I said Sharia is a non-starter.  Ain't gonna happen.  But neither is the OP's bigoted anti-Semitic crusade based on singling out a specific religion, an idea that spits on everything this country stands for.
> 
> The references to Christian terrorists are not to be taken deeply -- that's just playing along with the fallacy of the OP who holds that bad things are directly attributable to one specific relition (but not others); taking that faulty logic to its conclusion we find far too many examples from Xianity that disprove the fallacy of Islam.
> 
> But as noted back in , (SNIP...could not post with URL) and throughout this thread, the idea that religion is behind everything bad is absurd; and the idea that this applies only to one religion, doubly so.  Religions do not commit violence or terrorism; people do.
> 
> So the comparisons to Christianism are here to easily disprove the original broad-brush fallacy for the non-argument it is.
> 
> HTH.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, *it was founded on Judeo-Christian principles*. History tells us this and references to the Creator are in our founding documents. Our life and liberty come from the Creator and not man. It may be hard for you to swallow but that's okay. You are free to believe what you like...just keep it real.
Click to expand...


No, it is not.  "Judeo-Christianism" isn't even involved.  "References to the Creator" are just the vernacular of the 18th century.  A vernacular that was a holdover from the stranglehold the First Estate (the Church) had on politics which is exactly what they were building _away from_ with their new concept, soon followed by the French Revolution which did the same thing.  Most of the founders were neither Christian nor Jewish.

This is all off the topic anyway.  I don't know why you excised my link (inconvenient?) but here it is again.



PoliticalStench said:


> I'm not accusing all Muslims of terrorism...that would be untrue and ridiculous, but there are  verses in the Koran that approve of violence towards "infidels". Not so in the Bible regarding nonbelievers. Religions do not commit terrorism, but religious beliefs (If a person believes a revered prophet  or their god tells them to murder in order to go to heaven) or religious texts can and have proven to influence people positively and negatively.  Just how many people will be influenced in the future or are influenced now is any body's guess.  That's what is un-nerving. The Tsarnaev brothers weren't always radical in their beliefs...but that didn't stop them from blowing up people who were out to enjoy a beautiful day with friends and family.



There's plenty of "smite them" violence and "I am a jealous god" in the Bible, as I'm sure you know, so both books are way guilty of that.  And it's almost understandable, since both are relics from a primitive uncultured era.  That's why neither is a worthy philosophy to be living by.  But in either case, adherents are possessed of free will, so whether they choose to commit violence and justify it with their respective book or not is individually up to them.

None of which is really relevant here anyway -- as the link you excised asserts, it's not a question of religion in the first place.  Religions don't fly planes and bomb clinics.  _People _do that.


----------



## PoliticalStench

The following was posted by Pogo:

Eric Rudolph was trolling around in areas near where I live, literally in places I physically go to.  One of his bombing targets (in Georgia) was in a place where I shop.

Is this so hard to fathom, just because it doesn't fit the scary-monster narrative?

(SNIP..sorry didn't watch my snip)

The following posted by PoliticalStench

Jesus Christ and the Bible don't sanction the actions of Rudolph and people like him. He took those actions on his own. BUT the Koran has verses about violence towards infidels. 

God gave humans free will. He doesn't physically control people. Rudolph's actions do not line up with the teachings of Christianity...even though he many have thought he was doing the right thing...HE  thought.  He was wrong--but, thankfully, people like him are very few and far between as compared to jihadis and those willing to die for Islam.


----------



## Pogo

Eric Rudolph (and Scott Roeder and the rest of their ilk) would say they *are *sanctioned.  So did Hitler.



And there you are committing the same fallacy the OP started with: "when they do it it's their religion, but when we do it it's a wacknut on his own".  Already debunked; you want it both ways.  You fail.

As far as "few and far between as compared" -- come up with some numbers and not just vague impressions.  Talk is cheap.  That's all this BS thread has been based on: cheap talk.


----------



## PoliticalStench

Pogo said:


> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, actually it was founded on Liberalism -- which means the State gets out of the way and lets people be, including, importantly, in matters of religious observance.  Obviously that doesn't extend to a Sharia practice that infringes on another person, which is why I said Sharia is a non-starter.  Ain't gonna happen.  But neither is the OP's bigoted anti-Semitic crusade based on singling out a specific religion, an idea that spits on everything this country stands for.
> 
> The references to Christian terrorists are not to be taken deeply -- that's just playing along with the fallacy of the OP who holds that bad things are directly attributable to one specific relition (but not others); taking that faulty logic to its conclusion we find far too many examples from Xianity that disprove the fallacy of Islam.
> 
> But as noted back in , (SNIP...could not post with URL) and throughout this thread, the idea that religion is behind everything bad is absurd; and the idea that this applies only to one religion, doubly so.  Religions do not commit violence or terrorism; people do.
> 
> So the comparisons to Christianism are here to easily disprove the original broad-brush fallacy for the non-argument it is.
> 
> HTH.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, *it was founded on Judeo-Christian principles*. History tells us this and references to the Creator are in our founding documents. Our life and liberty come from the Creator and not man. It may be hard for you to swallow but that's okay. You are free to believe what you like...just keep it real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, it is not.  "Judeo-Christianism" isn't even involved.  "References to the Creator" are just the vernacular of the 18th century.  A vernacular that was a holdover from the stranglehold the First Estate (the Church) had on politics which is exactly what they were building _away from_ with their new concept, soon followed by the French Revolution which did the same thing.  Most of the founders were neither Christian nor Jewish.
> 
> This is all off the topic anyway.  I don't know why you excised my link (inconvenient?) but
> 
> (I 'EXCISED' YOUR LINK AND AM DOING IT AGAINST BECAUSE I'M UNABLE TO POST WITH THE URL IN THE POST.  I MADE THE POINT IN THE LAST POST BUT I GUESS YOU MISSED IT.)
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not accusing all Muslims of terrorism...that would be untrue and ridiculous, but there are  verses in the Koran that approve of violence towards "infidels". Not so in the Bible regarding nonbelievers. Religions do not commit terrorism, but religious beliefs (If a person believes a revered prophet  or their god tells them to murder in order to go to heaven) or religious texts can and have proven to influence people positively and negatively.  Just how many people will be influenced in the future or are influenced now is any body's guess.  That's what is un-nerving. The Tsarnaev brothers weren't always radical in their beliefs...but that didn't stop them from blowing up people who were out to enjoy a beautiful day with friends and family.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's plenty of "smite them" violence and "I am a jealous god" in the Bible, as I'm sure you know, so both books are way guilty of that.  And it's almost understandable, since both are relics from a primitive uncultured era.  That's why neither is a worthy philosophy to be living by.  But in either case, adherents are possessed of free will, so whether they choose to commit violence and justify it with their respective book or not is individually up to them.
> 
> None of which is really relevant here anyway -- as the link you excised asserts, it's not a question of religion in the first place.  Religions don't fly planes and bomb clinics.  _People _do that.
Click to expand...


I'm Christian and Jesus never told any of His followers to "smite" anybody. God has a right to be jealous when His creations worship devils and false idols when He gave us life. 

Your comments about being primitive and uncultured (like legally murdering life in the womb and doctor-assisted suicide is so cultured) and the language of our Declaration of Independence and Constitution being relics and outdated are sad. I think there is an emptiness inside you. I feel sorry for you. You also are very, very wrong...And deep down you know it.  If you want to live in hell, then do so, but don't bring the rest of us with you. Your opinions and thoughts are death and a unprofitable. Your philosophy will get you nowhere. 

You can talk about the French Revolution all day long but the US was founded on Judeo- Christian principles. The settlers were Puritans escaping religious persecution. Read quotes by some of the founding fathers and signers of the Declarations and see what their beliefs were. Maybe you'd be happier in Saudia Arabia explaining to the men there why religion is a relic and outdated and why Sharia Law should not exist and women should have equal rights.  

Religion does kill when their book instructs them it's ok to do violence against infidels.


----------



## PoliticalStench

Luddly Neddite said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._The definition of Sharia Law is law (morals) based on religion and I'd bet money that your religion believes 100% that abortion and marriage equality should be illegal_..."
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, of course...
> 
> But we all know how tolerant _Islam_ is of gays, too, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I live in the United States.
> 
> In MY country, "Christians" do not tolerate anything but white heterosexual men.
> 
> Bob and dodge and twist and shout all you want. FACT is, Sharia law is law based on religious beliefs. It is literally the opposite of US laws and the founding of the US was based on.
> 
> Christians DO believe in their own wacko version of Sharia law. Amazingly, they also are very open in wanting to trash our most basic Constitutionally-guaranteed rights.
Click to expand...


Watch it now! We'll all leave this world one day and give an account to our Maker. I live in the US too and I'm not white or a male and I'm Christian.


----------



## PoliticalStench

Thank you solidifying my point...Rudolph and others may have thought their actions were sanctioned (Hitler was into the occult and that conflicts with Christianity) but what does God think...And that's what matters... without Christ, there would be no Christianity. Again, Jesus never told his followers to murder nonbelievers. NEVER. 

Again, the Bible doesn't command or condone Christians to do harm to nonbelievers, but the Koran does. Apples and oranges. It's you that FAILS. ...at comprehension.  

News in the past year alone  is enough to tell me that idiots who blow up the Olympics are fewer in number than radical Islam terrorist bombers..oh, and btw, I am including the bombers who murder their own in Middle Eastern countries.

You seem a little agitated...like your drawers are twisted. Why are you posting in a thread you think is useless?


----------



## PoliticalStench

Pogo said:


> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody's "praised" Muslims here; in fact nobody's said squat about Muslims or Islam except for the bigot in the OP and a couple of his peanut gallery, all wallowing in negative stereotypes.
> 
> Where do you see this "praise" then?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't referring to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't say you were.  I said 'where do you see this "praise" of Muslims?'  From anybody?
Click to expand...


You wrote: 

Nobody's "praised" Muslims here; in fact nobody's said squat about Muslims or Islam except for the bigot in the OP and a couple of his peanut gallery, all wallowing in negative stereotypes.



It seems you have your answer, so why ask the question? Whistle away. All day


----------



## Beachboy

Just a quick note for those who think I am somehow generating all the action that is going on in this thread.  I have not made a post here in 25 (twenty-five) posts!  Clearly, this is subject of great concern to a lot of people.  We should all be appreciative that we have USMB to freely express our views.  I say thank you.


----------



## Pogo

PoliticalStench said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, *it was founded on Judeo-Christian principles*. History tells us this and references to the Creator are in our founding documents. Our life and liberty come from the Creator and not man. It may be hard for you to swallow but that's okay. You are free to believe what you like...just keep it real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it is not.  "Judeo-Christianism" isn't even involved.  "References to the Creator" are just the vernacular of the 18th century.  A vernacular that was a holdover from the stranglehold the First Estate (the Church) had on politics which is exactly what they were building _away from_ with their new concept, soon followed by the French Revolution which did the same thing.  Most of the founders were neither Christian nor Jewish.
> 
> This is all off the topic anyway.  I don't know why you excised my link (inconvenient?) but
> 
> (I 'EXCISED' YOUR LINK AND AM DOING IT AGAINST BECAUSE I'M UNABLE TO POST WITH THE URL IN THE POST.  I MADE THE POINT IN THE LAST POST BUT I GUESS YOU MISSED IT.)
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not accusing all Muslims of terrorism...that would be untrue and ridiculous, but there are  verses in the Koran that approve of violence towards "infidels". Not so in the Bible regarding nonbelievers. Religions do not commit terrorism, but religious beliefs (If a person believes a revered prophet  or their god tells them to murder in order to go to heaven) or religious texts can and have proven to influence people positively and negatively.  Just how many people will be influenced in the future or are influenced now is any body's guess.  That's what is un-nerving. The Tsarnaev brothers weren't always radical in their beliefs...but that didn't stop them from blowing up people who were out to enjoy a beautiful day with friends and family.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's plenty of "smite them" violence and "I am a jealous god" in the Bible, as I'm sure you know, so both books are way guilty of that.  And it's almost understandable, since both are relics from a primitive uncultured era.  That's why neither is a worthy philosophy to be living by.  But in either case, adherents are possessed of free will, so whether they choose to commit violence and justify it with their respective book or not is individually up to them.
> 
> None of which is really relevant here anyway -- as the link you excised asserts, it's not a question of religion in the first place.  Religions don't fly planes and bomb clinics.  _People _do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm Christian and Jesus never told any of His followers to "smite" anybody. God has a right to be jealous when His creations worship devils and false idols when He gave us life.
> 
> Your comments about being primitive and uncultured (like legally murdering life in the womb and doctor-assisted suicide is so cultured) and the language of our Declaration of Independence and Constitution being relics and outdated are sad. I think there is an emptiness inside you. I feel sorry for you. You also are very, very wrong...And deep down you know it.  If you want to live in hell, then do so, but don't bring the rest of us with you. Your opinions and thoughts are death and a unprofitable. Your philosophy will get you nowhere.
> 
> You can talk about the French Revolution all day long but the US was founded on Judeo- Christian principles. The settlers were Puritans escaping religious persecution. Read quotes by some of the founding fathers and signers of the Declarations and see what their beliefs were. Maybe you'd be happier in Saudia Arabia explaining to the men there why religion is a relic and outdated and why Sharia Law should not exist and women should have equal rights.
> 
> Religion does kill when their book instructs them it's ok to do violence against infidels.
Click to expand...


Yawn.  "We" have the right book; "they" have the wrong. one.  Self-righteous horseshit.  And now lashing out with snark.  You've reaffirmed your own fallacy here.   Not interested.

By the way you also failed to answer the question of who is "praising" Muslims.

And go buy a history book: the Puritans were not the Founders.


----------



## Pogo

PoliticalStench said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't referring to you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say you were.  I said 'where do you see this "praise" of Muslims?'  From anybody?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> Nobody's "praised" Muslims here; in fact nobody's said squat about Muslims or Islam except for the bigot in the OP and a couple of his peanut gallery, all wallowing in negative stereotypes.
> 
> 
> 
> It seems you have your answer, so why ask the question? Whistle away. All day
Click to expand...


Because you made the assertion.  Now we all see that you were making it up.

Don't come in here unarmed.  That's the OP's job.


----------



## Eric Cartman

"If we did not allow Muslim foreigners into the United States."


How do you know what religion they are?


----------



## PoliticalStench

Luddly Neddite said:


> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> If this thread is to caution us against Muslims then I say I must caution myself against Christians. I have had more bad dealings with Christians than Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please elaborate. I'd like to know what bad dealings you've had with Christians. Christians are human, not perfect. But I'd be curious to know if a Christian has ever beheaded someone you love or strapped on a IED vest and killed someone you cared about.  Maybe you're familiar with the New Testament and know that Jesus never told His followers to kill nonbelievers if they don't convert.  Maybe you're familiar with  passages in the Koran that permit violence towards "the infidel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My own experience is that Christians will lie, cheat and steal and when that doesn't give them what they want, they'll stab you in the back.  If you don't know that Christians have  beheaded, maimed (IED) or killed to further their agenda, you really don't know the the history of Christianity. Some Christians even teach how to lie to get what they want.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles... not Sharia Law. I have no problem with people practicing Sharia Law, just not in the United States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll bet you are lying.
> 
> Do you support a woman's right to control her own body and her right to decide when and if she reproduces?
> 
> How about the very basic right to the pursuit of happiness with the person you love?
> 
> Nope. I'll bet you, and your religion, believe 100% that the state should control women and gays.
> 
> The definition of Sharia Law is law (morals) based on religion and I'd bet money that your religion believes 100% that abortion and marriage equality should be illegal.
> 
> More BIG government from an rw who says he believes in small government.
> 
> Color me surprised.
> 
> NOT.
Click to expand...


Someone saying they are Christian and murdering in the name of Christianity doesn't mean God agrees with it. In fact, he doesn't. Jesus never told his followers to murder in the name of Christianity, BUT the Koran has verses that say it's ok to commit violence against infidels. 

Listen, I will never force someone to become a Christian. What you do is between you and God. He's the final judge. Don't infringe upon my rights either. I will never murder someone who doesn't convert to Christianity. 

Regarding gays: The US is a Judeo-Christian nation and gays have had the right to exist in US like every else.  White homosexual were never made slaves, they were never subjected to Jim Crow laws and they always had the right to vote in the US.  Would gays have the right to live in the open in a Muslim nation...under Sharia law? 

Abortion: I think a woman has the right to decide what to do when it comes to rape, incest, and if her life is in danger. Other than those, I believe abortion is murder and the choice is before intercourse. There are too many ways in US to prevent a pregnancy rather than taking a life (yes it's life whether or not the life is viable outside of womb.) The life growing inside the mother has no choice. The baby didn't beg it's sperm and egg donor to have unprotected sex and then murder it because they didn't want a baby but were too selfish to use protection or abstain. 

To the rest of the post. Liar, liar, LOL! oh how can you think I'm lying when you don't know me? Did I call you a liar? So harsh from someone who is worked up over intolerance about Muslims.   Maybe you're so used to lies that you don't know anything resembling the truth when you hear or see it. So sorry about your "experiences" with "Christians." Sounds a bit exaggerated to me...but please excuse as I am human. I've been around Christians as well but I've never had them steal from me or cheat and stab me in the back...of course there have been natural human experiences like disagreements or a chance for hurt feelings but never anything really scandalous. Again, I'm sorry, but you're upset about people making blanket statements about Muslims, maybe you shouldn't judge all Christians based on your experiences. 

Have a nice day.


----------



## PoliticalStench

Pogo said:


> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say you were.  I said 'where do you see this "praise" of Muslims?'  From anybody?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> Nobody's "praised" Muslims here; in fact nobody's said squat about Muslims or Islam except for the bigot in the OP and a couple of his peanut gallery, all wallowing in negative stereotypes.
> 
> 
> 
> It seems you have your answer, so why ask the question? Whistle away. All day
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because you made the assertion.  Now we all see that you were making it up.
> 
> Don't come in here unarmed.  That's the OP's job.
Click to expand...



LOL! Your arrogance about your own intelligence is your weakness. Such a shame. No. I didn't like your stanky attitude, like I owe you something. That's why I didn't answer your question.


----------



## PoliticalStench

Beachboy said:


> Just a quick note for those who think I am somehow generating all the action that is going on in this thread.  I have not made a post here in 25 (twenty-five) posts!  Clearly, this is subject of great concern to a lot of people.  We should all be appreciative that we have USMB to freely express our views.  I say thank you.



No, dude, we don't know each other.  Reading some of the posts about Christianity made me respond.


----------



## Pogo

PoliticalStench said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> Nobody's "praised" Muslims here; in fact nobody's said squat about Muslims or Islam except for the bigot in the OP and a couple of his peanut gallery, all wallowing in negative stereotypes.
> 
> 
> 
> It seems you have your answer, so why ask the question? Whistle away. All day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because you made the assertion.  Now we all see that you were making it up.
> 
> Don't come in here unarmed.  That's the OP's job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LOL! Your arrogance about your own intelligence is your weakness. Such a shame. No. I didn't like your stanky attitude, like I owe you something. That's why I didn't answer your question.
Click to expand...


No, you're bailing out because you got busted.  I didn't bring up anybody's intelligence; I asked you to back up your post, and you can't do it.  And now you're running away.

As I said, don't be coming in here unarmed.


----------



## PoliticalStench

Pogo said:


> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because you made the assertion.  Now we all see that you were making it up.
> 
> Don't come in here unarmed.  That's the OP's job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL! Your arrogance about your own intelligence is your weakness. Such a shame. No. I didn't like your stanky attitude, like I owe you something. That's why I didn't answer your question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, you're bailing out because you got busted.  I didn't bring up anybody's intelligence; I asked you to back up your post, and you can't do it.  And now you're running away.
> 
> As I said, don't be coming in here unarmed.
Click to expand...


I love it. LOL! Your mind is so closed that you can't see how your attitude would be off-putting, but because I didn't give you what you wanted, I backed off  off due to your "busting" skills, according to you. Far from it. I got a whiff of your attitude and folded my arms. 

Never said you USED the word intelligence. C-O-M-P-R-E-H-E-N-S-I-O-N.


----------



## PoliticalStench

PoliticalStench said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just a quick note for those who think I am somehow generating all the action that is going on in this thread.  I have not made a post here in 25 (twenty-five) posts!  Clearly, this is subject of great concern to a lot of people.  We should all be appreciative that we have USMB to freely express our views.  I say thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, thank you to USMB.
Click to expand...


----------



## beagle9

Esmeralda said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The American government has killed by far more Muslims than Muslims have killed Americans. * In fact, you could put all the Westerners and non-Muslims together who have been killed by Muslim terrorists, and you would still have a very small number compared to the number of Muslims killed by the American government and their allies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And why is this you suppose that the American government as you claim has killed more Muslims than Muslims have killed Americans  ? Do you think the American government just kills people for no reason at all, and if so why are you here or are you here in this country ?  If you think this, then you are a nutter according to some on this board, so are you a nutter who thinks the American government expends billions of it's treasure chasing down Muslims and killing them for nothing ? By allies do you mean specifcally the Jews ?  Help me to understand this position you hold on our government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's see....what were the Muslims in Iraq doing to Americans when America went in and started a war against them?  How many innocent civilians did America kill in that war?  I know much of the violence was sectarian, Shia against Sunni, but before we went in there and started a war, they were not killing each other; in the end, directly and indirectly, the USA is responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths of Muslims.  How many innocent people has the US killed in Afghanistan as "collateral damage"? How many during the Gulf War?  How man in Somalia?  In Tripoli?  The list goes on and on.  What's the US got to do with any of these places? How it is our right to fight wars around the world, killing innocent civilians as "collateral damage"?  Do you think these people thank us for that?  And our ally, Israel: one or two Israelis die in a rocket attack from Palestine, and Israel responds by killing hundreds of Palestinians, most totally innocent children, women, and old men.  Do you think these people overlook the fact that the US supports Israel?
> 
> Yes, in response to your question, our government and its allies kill thousands of innocent Muslim people every year for no good reason.
> 
> The Boston Marathon terrorist called the people who died 'collateral damage.'  Do you think that's coming out of nowhere?  Put two and two together.  I am not saying, btw, he is justified in his actions, so don't go there. Try to be a bit more intelligent than that.
Click to expand...

No, what you are saying is America & Israel is wrong, and Muslims are just innocents who are being slaughtered for no reason at all by these two. This opinion has actually now given the very reason that Muslims & Americans probably aren't compatible, I mean you just spelled it out quite nicely for us in this post did you not ?


----------



## Pogo

PoliticalStench said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL! Your arrogance about your own intelligence is your weakness. Such a shame. No. I didn't like your stanky attitude, like I owe you something. That's why I didn't answer your question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you're bailing out because you got busted.  I didn't bring up anybody's intelligence; I asked you to back up your post, and you can't do it.  And now you're running away.
> 
> As I said, don't be coming in here unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I love it. LOL! Your mind is so closed that you can't see how your attitude would be off-putting, but because I didn't give you what you wanted, I backed off  off due to your "busting" skills, according to you. Far from it. I got a whiff of your attitude and folded my arms.
> 
> Never said you USED the word intelligence. C-O-M-P-R-E-H-E-N-S-I-O-N.
Click to expand...


Now you're just trolling.  Fact is you made a claim and when it was challenged you bailed.  You can't answer, because there isn't one.  You painted yourself into a corner.  I called your bluff and you lost.

See ya, loser.


----------



## S.J.

Islam is the scourge of mankind.  There is nothing legitimate about a so-called religion that calls on it's followers to kill their fellow man.  What kind of sick sonofabitch defends that kind of perversion?


----------



## ABikerSailor

S.J. said:


> Islam is the scourge of mankind.  There is nothing legitimate about a so-called religion that calls on it's followers to kill their fellow man.  What kind of sick sonofabitch defends that kind of perversion?



Really?  Because there's an awful lot of Christians who are cherry picking the Bible (much like a lot of Muslims do to the Koran), and are justifying their murder of doctors, and bombings of abortion clinics.

Can you tell me exactly where in the Bible it says "thou shalt not have an abortion"?

And...............even if you could...................can you tell me where it says that it's okay to murder someone if you can prevent further deaths?

I bet you can't..................................


----------



## Esmeralda

ABikerSailor said:


> .... there's an awful lot of Christians who are cherry picking the Bible ....



'Thou shalt not kill'....except for the exceptions.....  



The commandments 
I am the LORD thy God
Thou shalt have no other gods
No graven images or likenesses
Not take the LORD's name in vain
Remember the sabbath day
Honour thy father and thy mother
Thou shalt not kill
Thou shalt not commit adultery
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness
Thou shalt not covet


----------



## S.J.

ABikerSailor said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islam is the scourge of mankind.  There is nothing legitimate about a so-called religion that calls on it's followers to kill their fellow man.  What kind of sick sonofabitch defends that kind of perversion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  Because there's an awful lot of Christians who are cherry picking the Bible (much like a lot of Muslims do to the Koran), and are justifying their murder of doctors, and bombings of abortion clinics.
> 
> Can you tell me exactly where in the Bible it says "thou shalt not have an abortion"?
> 
> And...............even if you could...................can you tell me where it says that it's okay to murder someone if you can prevent further deaths?
> 
> I bet you can't..................................
Click to expand...

Are you defending the practice of muslims killing their fellow man, or are you just trying to change the subject?


----------



## S.J.

Esmeralda said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... there's an awful lot of Christians who are cherry picking the Bible ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Thou shalt not kill'....except for the exceptions.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You assigned a quote to me that isn't mine.  Fix it, or I'll have to report it.
Click to expand...


----------



## Esmeralda

S.J. said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islam is the scourge of mankind.  There is nothing legitimate about a so-called religion that calls on it's followers to kill their fellow man.  What kind of sick sonofabitch defends that kind of perversion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  Because there's an awful lot of Christians who are cherry picking the Bible (much like a lot of Muslims do to the Koran), and are justifying their murder of doctors, and bombings of abortion clinics.
> 
> Can you tell me exactly where in the Bible it says "thou shalt not have an abortion"?
> 
> And...............even if you could...................can you tell me where it says that it's okay to murder someone if you can prevent further deaths?
> 
> I bet you can't..................................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you defending the practice of muslims killing their fellow man, or are you just trying to change the subject?
Click to expand...

Are you defending the practice of Christians killing their fellow men?


----------



## Esmeralda

S.J. said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 'Thou shalt not kill'....except for the exceptions.....
> 
> 
> 
> You assigned a quote to me that isn't mine.  Fix it, or I'll have to report it.
Click to expand...


It was a mistake.  Here's another one for you, nice Christian that you are:  "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."  Looks like you ain't inheritin' nothin' Billy Bob.


----------



## S.J.

Esmeralda said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> You assigned a quote to me that isn't mine.  Fix it, or I'll have to report it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was a mistake.  Here's another one for you, nice Christian that you are:  "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."  Looks like you ain't inheritin' nothin' Billy Bob.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, here's what you defend (being the "peace loving" muslim that you are).
> 
> UK emergency committee meets after Muslim terrorists hack soldier to death | Fox News
Click to expand...


----------



## actsnoblemartin

christians are annoying, but they arent blowing themselves up, cutting off people's heads and committing the vast majority of terrorism worldwide.

now, calm down p.c. police dont get your panties in a wad i didnt say all but enough thats its a damn problem

when was the last time a christian said, the bible said verse and chapter thats jesus gave me permission to murder my daughter for sleeping with her bf, for honor (sarcasm)

or i can beat my wife cause the bible says so

or jesus said the abortion clinic was ok to bomb

even the bullshit about timothy mcveigh

i swear the p.c. drivel coming out of your some of your mouths convinces me you couldnt 

rub two brains cells together if you tried


----------



## Luddly Neddite

S.J. said:


> Islam is the scourge of mankind.  There is nothing legitimate about a so-called religion that calls on it's followers to kill their fellow man.  What kind of sick sonofabitch defends that kind of perversion?



Christians. 

I've heard it said that Islam now is where Christianity was during Inquisition.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Muslims are not our enemy.

Terrorists are. 

Period.


----------



## Esmeralda

S.J. said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was a mistake.  Here's another one for you, nice Christian that you are:  "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."  Looks like you ain't inheritin' nothin' Billy Bob.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, here's what you defend (being the "peace loving" muslim that you are).
> 
> UK emergency committee meets after Muslim terrorists hack soldier to death | Fox News
Click to expand...


I don't defend anything like that whatsoever. Thats slander. Change it or I will report you.


----------



## Esmeralda

actsnoblemartin said:


> christians are annoying, but they arent blowing themselves up, cutting off people's heads and committing the vast majority of terrorism worldwide.
> 
> now, calm down p.c. police dont get your panties in a wad i didnt say all but enough thats its a damn problem
> 
> when was the last time a christian said, the bible said verse and chapter thats jesus gave me permission to murder my daughter for sleeping with her bf, for honor (sarcasm)
> 
> or i can beat my wife cause the bible says so
> 
> or jesus said the abortion clinic was ok to bomb
> 
> even the bullshit about timothy mcveigh
> 
> i swear the p.c. drivel coming out of your some of your mouths convinces me you couldnt
> 
> rub two brains cells together if you tried



What about the American soldiers in Iraq who raped and murdered an Iraqi girl, and murdered her whole family?  Do you think that kind of thing is an isolated incident?


----------



## Katzndogz

It all goes back to the liberal opinion that muslims have an absolute right to kill, blow things up and behead people walking down the street because they are fighting Christians, a common enemy of liberals.   Americans, British, Swedish, French, the whole of the west should accept being murdered by muslims (who are really liberal footsoldiers, lacking the fortitude to do it themselves), as pennance for alleged crimes done 1,000 years ago.

If that's not good enough, western nations are also trying to stop muslims from killing people TODAY, that that, to liberals might be a greater crime.


----------



## Kondor3

Luddly Neddite said:


> "..._Muslims are not our enemy. Terrorists are. Period._"


There is one complication with such a simplistic and starry-eyed outlook...

Islam encourages its adherents to wage Holy War and to come to the defense of all their co-religionists under a variety of conditions and circumstances, including simple criticism of its precepts and practices and its founder.

No other surviving mainstream religion contains such enjoinders which remain operative on a broad-spectrum basis across their domains.

This difference renders Islam far more susceptible to use as a Spiritual Rationalization to wage war and to kill and to commit violence than its counterparts across the globe.

This, in turn, serves to present Islam as a Poison Pill and Warrior's Creed and Political System to the rest of the world, in the guise of a so-called Religion of Peace.

Your words are seductively attractive, and all people of goodwill are likely to wish that this was true, but the Realists of the world realize that there is something not-quite-right with that blanket statement.

Or so it seems to this observer...


----------



## theHawk

Luddly Neddite said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay _Maroons_, What about THIS _Muslin_? We know he is anti-America and we know he feeds you rw nutters a steady diet of shit. But, I'll be that not one of you will admit that you suck up ever word he puts in front of you.
> 
> Stupid fools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I notice that none of the fux lovers have commented on this.
> 
> Pretty hard to defend hating Muslims while getting your news from one.
> 
> IGNORANT DAMN HYPOCRITES.
Click to expand...


What is there to comment about?  Like any of us give a flying fuck what some rich Arab does with his money.  This somehow makes him our "master"?  Pretty stupid fucking premise, even for you.


----------



## theHawk

Luddly Neddite said:


> Muslims are not our enemy.
> 
> Terrorists are.
> 
> Period.



Westboro Baptist Church followers aren't running around blowing people up or chopping heads off.

Try again, Luddy.


----------



## Pogo

Kondor3 said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._Muslims are not our enemy. Terrorists are. Period._"
> 
> 
> 
> There is one complication with such a simplistic and starry-eyed outlook...
> 
> *Islam encourages its adherents to wage Holy War* and to come to the defense of all their co-religionists under a variety of conditions and circumstances, including simple criticism of its precepts and practices and its founder.
> 
> *No other surviving mainstream religion contains such enjoinders* which remain operative on a broad-spectrum basis across their domains.
> 
> This difference renders Islam far more susceptible to use as a Spiritual Rationalization to wage war and to kill and to commit violence than its counterparts across the globe.
> 
> This, in turn, serves to present Islam as a Poison Pill and Warrior's Creed and Political System to the rest of the world, in the guise of a so-called Religion of Peace.
> 
> Your words are seductively attractive, and all people of goodwill are likely to wish that this was true, but the Realists of the world realize that there is something not-quite-right with that blanket statement.
> 
> Or so it seems to this observer...
Click to expand...


This is the same tired BS argument over and over and over and over and over.  We've heard it for years: "when _*they *_do it they're following their book; when _*we *_do it it's some wackaloon _not _following the book".  You guys want it both ways: *we *collectively aren't responsible for a few deviants but *they * collectively are.  That argument has never been valid, and doesn't fix itself by getting repeating it over and over.

You can run the same bad play out on the field again and again; it's still a bad play and it's still going to fail.  What is it they say about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

It's the same argument as "well, _*my *_religion is 'the one true faith'" (pronounced by each one).   Sure it is.  Mine is too.


----------



## theHawk

Luddly Neddite said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islam is the scourge of mankind.  There is nothing legitimate about a so-called religion that calls on it's followers to kill their fellow man.  What kind of sick sonofabitch defends that kind of perversion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Christians.
> 
> I've heard it said that Islam now is where Christianity was during Inquisition.
Click to expand...


Yea, I'm sure you "heard" that from your liberal friends or some other Christian hater on TV.  Obviously you don't even have the slightest fucking clue yourself.


----------



## Aristotle

actsnoblemartin said:


> christians are annoying, but they arent blowing themselves up, cutting off people's heads and committing the vast majority of terrorism worldwide.
> 
> now, calm down p.c. police dont get your panties in a wad i didnt say all but enough thats its a damn problem
> 
> when was the last time a christian said, the bible said verse and chapter thats jesus gave me permission to murder my daughter for sleeping with her bf, for honor (sarcasm)
> 
> or i can beat my wife cause the bible says so
> 
> or jesus said the abortion clinic was ok to bomb
> 
> even the bullshit about timothy mcveigh
> 
> i swear the p.c. drivel coming out of your some of your mouths convinces me you couldnt
> 
> rub two brains cells together if you tried



Westboro protest dead soldiers..

Christ soldiers kill abortion doctors..

KKK still burn crosses on lawn...

KKK is a terrorist group..

Christians have justified murder using the devil, hence the popularity of "the devil made me do it."

Want more examples?


----------



## Aristotle

Unkotare said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, are you stupid?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grow tired of your childish comments
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does being stupid make you feel tired? Go take a nap then.
Click to expand...


Dude your a troll get back under your bridge


----------



## Aristotle

S.J. said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know your type.  You have about as much respect for this country as our current president, zero.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is my "type?"
> 
> You are making assumptions and can't even explain what the fuck your assuming about. I want to know what is my type CHRISTIAN. A basic rule when conversing with someone is to substantiate your claim if you make a statement as fact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's get something straight, homie.  You don't dictate anything to me, including how I converse.  You want an answer to your question, read your own posts, you arrogant prick.
Click to expand...


Let's get something clear you stupid fuck. I'm not your "homie." Second, judging by how you write, I must be arrogant because you look more stupid by every post. You have yet to describe my type


----------



## Kondor3

Pogo said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._Muslims are not our enemy. Terrorists are. Period._"
> 
> 
> 
> There is one complication with such a simplistic and starry-eyed outlook...
> 
> *Islam encourages its adherents to wage Holy War* and to come to the defense of all their co-religionists under a variety of conditions and circumstances, including simple criticism of its precepts and practices and its founder.
> 
> *No other surviving mainstream religion contains such enjoinders* which remain operative on a broad-spectrum basis across their domains.
> 
> This difference renders Islam far more susceptible to use as a Spiritual Rationalization to wage war and to kill and to commit violence than its counterparts across the globe.
> 
> This, in turn, serves to present Islam as a Poison Pill and Warrior's Creed and Political System to the rest of the world, in the guise of a so-called Religion of Peace.
> 
> Your words are seductively attractive, and all people of goodwill are likely to wish that this was true, but the Realists of the world realize that there is something not-quite-right with that blanket statement.
> 
> Or so it seems to this observer...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is the same tired BS argument over and over and over and over and over.  We've heard it for years: "when _*they *_do it they're following their book; when _*we *_do it it's some wackaloon _not _following the book".  You guys want it both ways: *we *collectively aren't responsible for a few deviants but *they * collectively are.  That argument has never been valid, and doesn't fix itself by getting repeating it over and over.
> 
> You can run the same bad play out on the field again and again; it's still a bad play and it's still going to fail.  What is it they say about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?
> 
> It's the same argument as "well, _*my *_religion is 'the one true faith'" (pronounced by each one).   Sure it is.  Mine is too.
Click to expand...

No, Pogo, it's true I'm afraid.

When Christendom goes to war, it does so in* violation o*f the precepts taught by its Founder.

When Islam goes to war, it does in in *accordance with* the precepts taught by its Founder.

Big difference.

There exist a fair number of people of goodwill who are so deeply committed to Religious Tolerance across the board and in treating all belief systems equally that they are blinded to the differences and the resultant risks and dangers and susceptibilities.

We perceive this differently and I will have to be content with that.


----------



## Kondor3

Esmeralda said:


> "..._What about the American soldiers in Iraq who raped and murdered an Iraqi girl, and murdered her whole family?  Do you think that kind of thing is an isolated incident?_"


Did they rape and murder the girl, and murder her family, in the name of their vision of God?

If not, then, we have apples and oranges here... non sequitur, for comparison purposes.


----------



## Pogo

Kondor3 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is one complication with such a simplistic and starry-eyed outlook...
> 
> *Islam encourages its adherents to wage Holy War* and to come to the defense of all their co-religionists under a variety of conditions and circumstances, including simple criticism of its precepts and practices and its founder.
> 
> *No other surviving mainstream religion contains such enjoinders* which remain operative on a broad-spectrum basis across their domains.
> 
> This difference renders Islam far more susceptible to use as a Spiritual Rationalization to wage war and to kill and to commit violence than its counterparts across the globe.
> 
> This, in turn, serves to present Islam as a Poison Pill and Warrior's Creed and Political System to the rest of the world, in the guise of a so-called Religion of Peace.
> 
> Your words are seductively attractive, and all people of goodwill are likely to wish that this was true, but the Realists of the world realize that there is something not-quite-right with that blanket statement.
> 
> Or so it seems to this observer...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the same tired BS argument over and over and over and over and over.  We've heard it for years: "when _*they *_do it they're following their book; when _*we *_do it it's some wackaloon _not _following the book".  You guys want it both ways: *we *collectively aren't responsible for a few deviants but *they * collectively are.  That argument has never been valid, and doesn't fix itself by getting repeating it over and over.
> 
> You can run the same bad play out on the field again and again; it's still a bad play and it's still going to fail.  What is it they say about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?
> 
> It's the same argument as "well, _*my *_religion is 'the one true faith'" (pronounced by each one).   Sure it is.  Mine is too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, Pogo, it's true I'm afraid.
> 
> When Christendom goes to war, it does so in* violation o*f the precepts taught by its Founder.
> 
> When Islam goes to war, it does in in *accordance with* the precepts taught by its Founder.
> 
> Big difference.
> 
> There exist a fair number of people of goodwill who are so deeply committed to Religious Tolerance across the board and in treating all belief systems equally that they are blinded to the differences and the resultant risks and dangers and susceptibilities.
> 
> We perceive this differently and I will have to be content with that.
Click to expand...


All you're doing now is restating what I just said: "Us good, them bad", based on your own interpretation of somebody else's book (or even book*s*).  That's more than a little presumptuous, to put it kindly.


----------



## Pogo

Kondor3 said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._What about the American soldiers in Iraq who raped and murdered an Iraqi girl, and murdered her whole family?  Do you think that kind of thing is an isolated incident?_"
> 
> 
> 
> Did they rape and murder the girl, and murder her family, in the name of their vision of God?
> 
> If not, then, we have apples and oranges here... non sequitur, for comparison purposes.
Click to expand...


Scott Roeder and Father John Earl and Eric Rudolph and James Kopp (he of the ironically named "Lambs of Christ) and the Reverend Paul Jennings Hill and Michael Griffin certainly did.  So did the quartet of Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons and Kaye Wiggins who called their act of terrorism "a gift for Jesus on his birthday".

I don't get why this parallel should be elusive.  Some of us are trying to draw distinctions that have no difference.  Religious violence is religious violence, period.  We don't get some kind of waiver because it's "our side".


----------



## Kondor3

Pogo said:


> "..._All you're doing now is restating what I just said: 'Us good, them bad', based on your own interpretation of somebody else's book (or even book*s*).  That's more than a little presumptuous, to put it kindly._"


You are correct.

All either of us is doing now is repeating our previous assertions.

I have read both the Bible and the Q'uran and some measure of supplemental high-quality analysis and narration and have contemplated these things and current events sufficiently so as to have formed the logical and sensible opinions that I expressed earlier.

I am no scholar in such matters and it has been more than a decade since I undertook that analysis and I have probably forgotten by now half or more of the details that I gathered and weighed as relevant back then.

But I have managed to retain (in memory) both the macro-level conclusions that I reached back then and the most salient points that led me in that direction.

Both belief-systems share the historical narration of the Old Testament and assign it varying weights, however, in order to determine whether one or the other is more susceptible to mischief...

Within the domain of the _Primary Narratives_ on which both systems are actually based (_and which supercede any teachings to the contrary in the Old Testament_), the challenge would be to:

1. find for us all instances in the New Testament in which the Founder of Christianity has explicitly said that God wants his followers to kill in His name or to advance The Faith or defend the Faithful.

2. find for us all instances in the Q'uran in which the Founder of Islam has explicitly said that God wants his followers to kill in His name or to advance The Faith or defend the Faithful.

Then tally the results of (1) and (2) and present those numbers to us.

You and I both already know just how lopsided that tally is going to be, don't we?

And that doesn't even take into account the incessant calls to Domination and Punishment of the Unbeliever and the Infidel to be found in the Q'uran which do not exist in the New Testament.

Nor the promises of Paradise for any Believer-Warrior who dies in the service of Islam.

In the era of the Crusades, clerics promised Christians the same thing - but they had to squeeze juicy rationalizations out of thin air, in contradiction to the core teachings of their Founder.

At any point in the history of Islam, clerics promise Muslims the same thing - but they don't have to bother squeezing-out bull<bleep> rationalizations - it's all written down in black and white, by the Founder himself.

I perceive you to be a good fellow and I perceive the best possible and most admirable intentions and motives in attempting to hold-the-line with respect to Religious Tolerance or Religious Equivalency in this context, so I do not sense a Fifth Columnist or Apologist mindset at work in you, as I have sensed in several of our colleagues.

But - rightly or wrongly - I perceive a dangerous naivete in this narrow context that I will always challenge, because I see great danger in continuing to walk through life without the good sense to keep an extra-close eye on this alien and ultimately hostile belief system.

This is not xenophobia on my part... it's xeno-realism... or so I see it.

Your mileage, of course, may vary...


----------



## Kondor3

Pogo said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._What about the American soldiers in Iraq who raped and murdered an Iraqi girl, and murdered her whole family?  Do you think that kind of thing is an isolated incident?_"
> 
> 
> 
> Did they rape and murder the girl, and murder her family, in the name of their vision of God?
> 
> If not, then, we have apples and oranges here... non sequitur, for comparison purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Scott Roeder and Father John Earl and Eric Rudolph and James Kopp (he of the ironically named "Lambs of Christ) and the Reverend Paul Jennings Hill and Michael Griffin certainly did.  So did the quartet of Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons and Kaye Wiggins who called their act of terrorism "a gift for Jesus on his birthday".
> 
> I don't get why this parallel should be elusive.  Some of us are trying to draw distinctions that have no difference.  Religious violence is religious violence, period.  We don't get some kind of waiver because it's "our side".
Click to expand...


It's not a denial that such violence exists.

It's not giving 'our side' a pass.

It is recognizing that one side is far more prone to such things than the other.

Prone.

Susceptible.

More likely.

Contains more of the ingredients that can more quickly cause that to materialize.

Because of dangerous permissions that have been built into one of those systems.

----------

Oh, and, by the way, are you reciting the names of the US soldiers who committed such acts in Iraq, in the name of their vision of God, or are you showing us unrelated names pertaining to religious violence here in the US?


----------



## Pogo

Kondor3 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._All you're doing now is restating what I just said: 'Us good, them bad', based on your own interpretation of somebody else's book (or even book*s*).  That's more than a little presumptuous, to put it kindly._"
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct.
> 
> All either of us is doing now is repeating our previous assertions.
> 
> I have read both the Bible and the Q'uran and some measure of supplemental high-quality analysis and narration and have contemplated these things and current events sufficiently so as to have formed the logical and sensible opinions that I expressed earlier.
> 
> I am no scholar in such matters and it has been more than a decade since I undertook that analysis and I have probably forgotten by now half or more of the details that I gathered and weighed as relevant back then.
> 
> But I have managed to retain (in memory) both the macro-level conclusions that I reached back then and the most salient points that led me in that direction.
> 
> Both belief-systems share the historical narration of the Old Testament and assign it varying weights, however, in order to determine whether one or the other is more susceptible to mischief...
> 
> Within the domain of the _Primary Narratives_ on which both systems are actually based (_and which supercede any teachings to the contrary in the Old Testament_), the challenge would be to:
> 
> 1. find for us all instances in the New Testament in which the Founder of Christianity has explicitly said that God wants his followers to kill in His name or to advance The Faith or defend the Faithful.
> 
> 2. find for us all instances in the Q'uran in which the Founder of Islam has explicitly said that God wants his followers to kill in His name or to advance The Faith or defend the Faithful.
> 
> Then tally the results of (1) and (2) and present those numbers to us.
> 
> You and I both already know just how lopsided that tally is going to be, don't we?
> 
> And that doesn't even take into account the incessant calls to Domination and Punishment of the Unbeliever and the Infidel to be found in the Q'uran which do not exist in the New Testament.
> 
> Nor the promises of Paradise for any Believer-Warrior who dies in the service of Islam.
> 
> In the era of the Crusades, clerics promised Christians the same thing - but they had to squeeze juicy rationalizations out of thin air, in contradiction to the core teachings of their Founder.
> 
> At any point in the history of Islam, clerics promise Muslims the same thing - but they don't have to bother squeezing-out bull<bleep> rationalizations - it's all written down in black and white, by the Founder himself.
> 
> I perceive you to be a good fellow and I perceive the best possible and most admirable intentions and motives in attempting to hold-the-line with respect to Religious Tolerance or Religious Equivalency in this context, so I do not sense a Fifth Columnist or Apologist mindset at work in you, as I have sensed in several of our colleagues.
> 
> But - rightly or wrongly - I perceive a dangerous naivete in this narrow context that I will always challenge, because I see great danger in continuing to walk through life without the good sense to keep an extra-close eye on this alien and ultimately hostile belief system.
> 
> This is not xenophobia on my part... it's xeno-realism... or so I see it.
> 
> Your mileage, of course, may vary...
Click to expand...


I'm really really really not interested in tallying books.  That's a fool's errand, since as we've both noted, zealots will commit what they want whether the book literally prescribes it or not.  This is a non starter.  Once again, selective interpretation, and it's getting tiring.


----------



## Kondor3

Pogo said:


> "..._I'm really really really not interested in tallying books. That's a fool's errand, since as we've both noted, zealots will commit what they want whether the book literally prescribes it or not. This is a non starter. Once again, selective interpretation, and it's getting tiring._"


My contention is that one Belief System is far more prone to being cited as the basis for violence than its peers.

You challenge that contention.

I suggest that we put it to the test and quantify that basis.

You decline, citing the best subjective rationale that you can muster at the moment.

I wanted to quantify the assertion and translate that assertion into measurable fact.

You prefer to hang onto your preconceived notions rather than establish a baseline.

Noted.

You're right... that is, indeed, quite tiresome.

Not to mention allowing you to remain safe-and-snug inside that preconceived notion without putting your notion to the test.

No skin off my nose... OK by me... 

Thanks, anyway.


----------



## Pogo

Kondor3 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did they rape and murder the girl, and murder her family, in the name of their vision of God?
> 
> If not, then, we have apples and oranges here... non sequitur, for comparison purposes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scott Roeder and Father John Earl and Eric Rudolph and James Kopp (he of the ironically named "Lambs of Christ) and the Reverend Paul Jennings Hill and Michael Griffin certainly did.  So did the quartet of Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons and Kaye Wiggins who called their act of terrorism "a gift for Jesus on his birthday".
> 
> I don't get why this parallel should be elusive.  Some of us are trying to draw distinctions that have no difference.  Religious violence is religious violence, period.  We don't get some kind of waiver because it's "our side".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not a denial that such violence exists.
> 
> It's not giving 'our side' a pass.
> 
> It is recognizing that one side is far more prone to such things than the other.
> 
> Prone.
> 
> Susceptible.
> 
> More likely.
> 
> Contains more of the ingredients that can more quickly cause that to materialize.
> 
> Because of dangerous permissions that have been built into one of those systems.
> 
> ----------
Click to expand...


Well then you have the same assignment I gave yesterday's troll: show some numbers.  Numbers of actual events, not what some book says.  I've already provided a few; build on that.



Kondor3 said:


> Oh, and, by the way, are you reciting the names of the US soldiers who committed such acts in Iraq, in the name of their vision of God, or are you showing us unrelated names pertaining to religious violence here in the US?



None of those are soldiers; they're all terrorists or murderers who acted overtly on (their interpretation of) Christianism.  A small sample.

This is why I keep saying it's a distinction without a difference.  When you have people maimed by a bomb or killed by a bullet (or the case of Fr. Earl, attacked with an axe (here's another)), the victims are just as dead, just as maimed, and the act is just as wrong.

Trying to excuse one by disowning the violence prescribed in one book while condemning the other by highlighting the same thing in another, that's just selective reasoning.  I'm really not impressed by that tactic.


----------



## Kondor3

Pogo said:


> "...Well then you have the same assignment I gave yesterday's troll: show some numbers. Numbers of actual events, not what some book says.  I've already provided a few; build on that..."


No problem, Pogo...

Read 'em and weep...

List of Islamic terrorist attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> "..._None of those are soldiers; they're all terrorists or murderers who acted overtly on (their interpretation of) Christianism. A small sample_..."



And here I thought that you were going to treat us to an example of US (Christian) soldiers in Iraq who raped and murdered in the name of their God or their Religion... my bad.

As to the list you've served-up, however... strip-out the simple homicides for us and focus upon Acts of Terror in the name of the Christian Vision of God, or in support or defense of fellow Christians, and then you'll have an apples-to-apples basis for comparison.



> "..._This is why I keep saying it's a distinction without a difference_..."



I see that oh-so-differently...


----------



## S.J.

Aristotle said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have yet to describe my type
> 
> 
> 
> You're doing a fine job of that yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Beachboy

S.J. said:


> Islam is the scourge of mankind.  There is nothing legitimate about a so-called religion that calls on it's followers to kill their fellow man.  What kind of sick sonofabitch defends that kind of perversion?



I'll tell you what kind, someone with an agenda.  Someone who wants the world to believe that Islam is some kind of world saving message, instead of a violent group of barbarians who murder innocent people in an effort to accomplish their goals.

We gave Muslims a break after 9/11.  We let it go.  We should have known when they wanted to build a Mosque at ground zero they were using American freedoms to accomplish their agenda.  This would be like the NAZI party building their office across the street from the Holocaust Museum.  After the Boston Marathon bombings Americans saw the evil they were dealing with.  Now the American people and the Government will be putting pressure on these barbarians.  They will either assimilate, leave, or be removed - all nice and legal.  Sounds good to me!


----------



## Pogo

Kondor3 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> "...Well then you have the same assignment I gave yesterday's troll: show some numbers. Numbers of actual events, not what some book says.  I've already provided a few; build on that..."
> 
> 
> 
> No problem, Pogo...
> 
> Read 'em and weep...
> 
> List of Islamic terrorist attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._None of those are soldiers; they're all terrorists or murderers who acted overtly on (their interpretation of) Christianism. A small sample_..."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And here I thought that you were going to treat us to an example of US (Christian) soldiers in Iraq who raped and murdered in the name of their God or their Religion... my bad.
> 
> As to the list you've served-up, however... strip-out the simple homicides for us and focus upon Acts of Terror in the name of the Christian Vision of God, or in support or defense of fellow Christians, and then you'll have an apples-to-apples basis for comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._This is why I keep saying it's a distinction without a difference_..."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see that oh-so-differently...
Click to expand...


1) I didn't mean a link to Wiki.  I can do that myself (don't tell nobody but I often do).  I meant a side-by-side comparison of comparable numbers.  I've already posted about the proportion of Muslim terrorism (variously 2.5 and 6 percent, depending on the range); what we need is a comparison.

_That is, we "need" it only if we're committed to wallowing in the idea that we're tallying scores in some kind of religion-versus-religion sports event, which is the OP's idea but not mine..._

2) the solders in Iraq was somebody else's example, not mine.  I'm sure there are worthy examples from various battlefields as well as domestic violence, but the names I tossed out were all perpetrators who by their own admission acted in the name of Xianity on some domestic religious principle.

.... Which again, see italics above, is not my point, it's just a comparison to disprove the fallacy.  But there are no "simple homicides" in there; it's _*entirely *_made up of religion-based zealots who are confirmed as such, no Catholic pun intended.  It's already apples to apples.  I'm way ahead of you.

Why would I stack the deck?  It's not like these people are hard to find, unfortunately.

3) Obviously we do see it differently.  I see one religion pushing a primitive book of social mores of a way-bygone era with all kinds of weird ideas that some wacko fundamentalists take to heart and act out in extreme ways, and another religion pushing a primitive book of social mores of a way-bygone era with all kinds of weird ideas that some wacko fundamentalists take to heart and act out in extreme ways.  See the difference?  Me neither.  The distinction is lost on me, but it's impossible to look at these two apples and not conclude they're both fountains of wacko.


----------



## Kondor3

I think we've exhausted this round, Pogo... we've both jumped through a couple of hoops and laid-out our positions... and neither of us is making any progress... so... 'til the next time we find ourselves tangling over Equivalency between Christianity and Islam... ;-)


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islam is the scourge of mankind.  There is nothing legitimate about a so-called religion that calls on it's followers to kill their fellow man.  What kind of sick sonofabitch defends that kind of perversion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll tell you what kind, someone with an agenda.  Someone who wants the world to believe that Islam is some kind of world saving message, instead of a violent group of barbarians who murder innocent people in an effort to accomplish their goals.
> 
> We gave Muslims a break after 9/11.  We let it go.  We should have known when they wanted to build a Mosque at ground zero they were using American freedoms to accomplish their agenda.  This would be like the NAZI party building their office across the street from the Holocaust Museum.  After the Boston Marathon bombings Americans saw the evil they were dealing with.  Now the American people and the Government will be putting pressure on these barbarians.  They will either assimilate, leave, or be removed - all nice and legal.  Sounds good to me!
Click to expand...


I guess we were due for a reminder of what kind of wacko started this thread; this is as good an example as any.  Again, no facts, just innuendo and out the other, along with the attendant mythology.

We did this before but it wasn't "Islam" building a mosque at Ground Zero; it was a specific congregation of *Sufis *building a *cultural center* in a building they were _already using_ for prayer -- a congregation *that has been in that neighborhood since the early 1980s*.  Even if we dumb ourselves down to the level where we believe a religion committed 9/11 (and that's a long way to dumb down), there were no Sufis involved; Sufis have in fact been victims of the same Wahabbist zealots as were purportedly the planners of 9/11.

Such is the pig-ignorant dependence on wispy emotion, as opposed to fact, that trolls like Belchboy live on.  Actually understanding what's going on is just way too much trouble when you can pull out the Nazi card and play Freddie Fearmonger and dehumanize the target.  Old as the fucking hills.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  And then if that isn't hip-boot deep enough, Bigotboy then demonstrates where he's coming from again, bringing in a guilt-by-association with the Boston bombing; not because the perps committed a political act (they didn't), not because they were al Qaeda (they weren't) --- but solely because they were Jews.  What's that?  Oh yeah, Muslims.  Whatever.  Insert your scapegoat here, it works the same way every time.

But that's all stipulating, merely for the sake of argument, the fallacy that "a religion" commits violence rather than people.  Once again, if we take that logic then we must also conclude that the list of perpetrators I just gave Kondor are irrelevant, because it was not them but _Christianity _that killed those doctors, maimed that nurse, bombed those buildings, etc.

That's if you want to use the same logic.  Suit yourself.


----------



## Pogo

Kondor3 said:


> I think we've exhausted this round, Pogo... we've both jumped through a couple of hoops and laid-out our positions... and neither of us is making any progress... so... 'til the next time we find ourselves tangling over *Equivalency between Christianity and Islam*... ;-)



Just as a point of order, that's really not my quest.

My point is, *IF* we stipulate that "religion" is the sole catalyst of violence and thus lead ourselves to a comparison of this religion versus that one, *THEN *we must cite all the cases of Xian zealot violence that disprove that premise.

But that's not my premise in the first place; it's the OP's.  I think it's a crock myself, but I'm willing to extend it to its logical conclusion just to show _why _it's a crock.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Kondor3 said:


> I think we've exhausted this round, Pogo... we've both jumped through a couple of hoops and laid-out our positions... and neither of us is making any progress... so... 'til the next time we find ourselves tangling over Equivalency between Christianity and Islam... ;-)



Good job, Kondor.


----------



## Pogo

Jeremiah said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think we've exhausted this round, Pogo... we've both jumped through a couple of hoops and laid-out our positions... and neither of us is making any progress... so... 'til the next time we find ourselves tangling over Equivalency between Christianity and Islam... ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good job, Kondor.
Click to expand...


I uh, think you misread.   But feel free to take up his points ...if you can.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Pogo, when you are ready for my league?  I'll let you know.  Until then?  Practice...........

-Jeri


----------



## Pogo

Jeremiah said:


> Pogo, when you are ready for my league?  I'll let you know.  Until then?  Practice...........
> 
> -Jeri



Ah, another nolo contendre.  That's what I expected.

[takes victory lap]


----------



## Kondor3

Pogo said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo, when you are ready for my league?  I'll let you know.  Until then?  Practice...........
> 
> -Jeri
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, another nolo contendre.  That's what I expected.
> 
> [takes victory lap]
Click to expand...


Calling upon you to quantify the number of times permission is given by the Founder to commit violence in both the New Testament and the Q'uran, and then you backing away from such an invitation to quantify - most likely because you know the outcome just as well as I do - and then having you call for numbers related to Islamic terrorism - and then rejecting the link to the website - and then me tiring of the exchange - is hardly a 'nolo contendre' result.

You're looking at an Intermission - not a Conceding of Victory - so I wouldn't be too quick to lace-up those victory-lap sneakers just yet...


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Kondor3 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo, when you are ready for my league?  I'll let you know.  Until then?  Practice...........
> 
> -Jeri
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, another nolo contendre.  That's what I expected.
> 
> [takes victory lap]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Calling upon you to quantity the number of times permission is given by the Founder to commit violence in both the New Testament and the Q'uran, and then you backing away from such an invitation to quantity - most likely because you know the outcome just as well as I do - and then having you call for numbers related to Islamic terrorism - and then rejecting the link to the website - and then me tiring of the exchange - is hardly a 'nolo contendre' result.
> 
> You looking at an Intermission - not a Conceding of Victory - so I wouldn't be too quick to lace-up those victory-lap sneakers just yet...
Click to expand...


Touche'!


----------



## Beachboy

******Breaking News******

*See the video from CBS Television Network.*

*Ibragim Todashev, a friend of the accused Boston Marathon bomber Tamerlan Tsarnaev, was shot dead by an FBI agent during questioning in Orlando. Todashev was being questioned about a grisly triple murder believed to be committed by the two men.*






Good riddance you piece of human garbage!​
Friend implicates Boston bombing suspect in triple homicide - CBS News Video

* America will not tolerate the murderous Muslim "religion!"

 Time to get tough, and take no prisoners!*​


----------



## Pogo

Kondor3 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo, when you are ready for my league?  I'll let you know.  Until then?  Practice...........
> 
> -Jeri
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, another nolo contendre.  That's what I expected.
> 
> [takes victory lap]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Calling upon you to quantity the number of times permission is given by the Founder to commit violence in both the New Testament and the Q'uran, and then you backing away from such an invitation to quantity - most likely because you know the outcome just as well as I do - and then having you call for numbers related to Islamic terrorism - and then rejecting the link to the website - and then me tiring of the exchange - is hardly a 'nolo contendre' result.
> 
> You looking at an Intermission - not a Conceding of Victory - so I wouldn't be too quick to lace-up those victory-lap sneakers just yet...
Click to expand...


That was addressed to Jeremiah, not you.  See the exchange just before it.

You'll notice she's got nothing whatsoever to add except "touché" and a pair of hands clapping.  Now that's what I call nolo contendre.  But I'm being kind.


----------



## Beachboy

theHawk said:


> Islam, isn't it great?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soldier killed in attack near London barracks, lawmaker says - CNN.com



We don't even have to post about these Muslim animals, they have turned world opinion against themselves twice in one day.  Here in London, and the FBI shooting of a Muslim in Orlando, Florida.  Thanks for doing my work for me, your psycho barbarians.

Here is the video of this whack job from CBS News.

British soldier savagely killed in London machete attack - CBS News Video​


----------



## Kondor3

Pogo said:


> "...That was addressed to Jeremiah, not you..."


Given that I was the 'exchange' just before that one...

And your use of the phrase '*another* nolo contendre'...

I automatically deduced that *I* was the *other* one...

Perhaps I was wrong...


----------



## Beachboy

PoliticalStench said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't referring to you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say you were.  I said 'where do you see this "praise" of Muslims?'  From anybody?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> Nobody's "praised" Muslims here; in fact nobody's said squat about Muslims or Islam except for the bigot in the OP and a couple of his peanut gallery, all wallowing in negative stereotypes.
> 
> 
> 
> It seems you have your answer, so why ask the question? Whistle away. All day
Click to expand...


I am a bigot because I think Muslims should be punished for 9/11, the Boston Marathon bombings, attacking an FBI agent in Orlando yesterday, and killing a soldier in broad daylight in the streets of London.  

You need to look up the word "bigot" in the dictionary because you don't understand it.  While you are at it, look up the word "psycho,"  Yesterday Muslims proved that twice in Orlando and London.






Look into the eyes of this Muslim psycho.
It is easy to see the insanity.​


----------



## Pogo

Kondor3 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> "...That was addressed to Jeremiah, not you..."
> 
> 
> 
> Given that I was the 'exchange' just before that one...
> 
> And your use of the phrase '*another* nolo contendre'...
> 
> I automatically deduced that *I* was the *other* one...
> 
> Perhaps I was wrong...
Click to expand...


No no, "another" means both in the general population of message boarding NCs (such as that one-day wonder yesterday in this same thread) as well as "another" NC from Jeri (in others).

You though, I have faith in to follow up.  You're in a higher uh, caste.


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say you were.  I said 'where do you see this "praise" of Muslims?'  From anybody?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> Nobody's "praised" Muslims here; in fact nobody's said squat about Muslims or Islam except for the bigot in the OP and a couple of his peanut gallery, all wallowing in negative stereotypes.
> 
> 
> 
> It seems you have your answer, so why ask the question? Whistle away. All day
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because you made the assertion.  Now we all see that you were making it up.
> 
> Don't come in here unarmed.  That's the OP's job.
Click to expand...


Crap!  You don't even know what a fact/link is, let alone how to post one.  You are just noise.  Name-calling is all you rag headed fanatics have!


----------



## Beachboy

ABikerSailor said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islam is the scourge of mankind.  There is nothing legitimate about a so-called religion that calls on it's followers to kill their fellow man.  What kind of sick sonofabitch defends that kind of perversion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  Because there's an awful lot of Christians who are cherry picking the Bible (much like a lot of Muslims do to the Koran), and are justifying their murder of doctors, and bombings of abortion clinics.
> 
> Can you tell me exactly where in the Bible it says "thou shalt not have an abortion"?
> 
> And...............even if you could...................can you tell me where it says that it's okay to murder someone if you can prevent further deaths?
> 
> I bet you can't..................................
Click to expand...


What the hell does Christianity have to do with this thread? 

We are talking about Muslims blowing up American cities, and killing our citizens.  No one has seen Christians do that.  Stop trying to distract viewers from the topic to sell your PRO-Muslim agenda!


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say you were.  I said 'where do you see this "praise" of Muslims?'  From anybody?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> Nobody's "praised" Muslims here; in fact nobody's said squat about Muslims or Islam except for the bigot in the OP and a couple of his peanut gallery, all wallowing in negative stereotypes.
> 
> 
> 
> It seems you have your answer, so why ask the question? Whistle away. All day
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *I am a bigot because I think Muslims should be punished for 9/11, the Boston Marathon bombings, attacking an FBI agent in Orlando yesterday, and killing a soldier in broad daylight in the streets of London*.
Click to expand...



No shit.  That's what we've all been telling you. 




Beachboy said:


> You need to look up the word "bigot" in the dictionary because you don't understand it.  While you are at it, look up the word "psycho,"  Yesterday Muslims proved that twice in Orlando and London.



"I need" huh?  You're going to presume to tell me what "I need"??

>> *big·ot*
noun \&#712;bi-g&#601;t\
Definition of BIGOT
1: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance << - voilà.

Now read your own posts.

>> *psy·cho*
noun \&#712;s&#299;-(&#716k&#333;\  plural psychos
Definition of PSYCHO
: a deranged or psychopathic person &#8212;not used technically 

Definition of PSYCHOPATHY
: mental disorder especially when marked by egocentric and antisocial activity << (Op. cit.)

I thought I had it with the term _bigot _but OK, have it your way-- you're a bigot _*and *_a psycho.

Better?


----------



## Beachboy

S.J. said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was a mistake.  Here's another one for you, nice Christian that you are:  "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."  Looks like you ain't inheritin' nothin' Billy Bob.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, here's what you defend (being the "peace loving" muslim that you are).
> 
> UK emergency committee meets after Muslim terrorists hack soldier to death | Fox News
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We do not want any USMB member in this thread to miss your link.
Click to expand...


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> Name-calling is all you rag headed fanatics have!



Classic.  Preserved for posterity.


----------



## Beachboy

Kondor3 said:


> Read 'em and weep...List of Islamic terrorist attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



*Excellent Link.  Let's get it out here for all to see!*

*List of Islamic terrorist attacks*

*From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*
*
**The following is a partial list of acts of terrorism committed by  Islamic extremists for the purpose of achieving varying political and/or  religious ends. The total number of deaths as a result of the acts of  terrorism listed on this page is 8969.*
*Contents*


*1970-1979 *



*

"Munich Massacre" in Germany by Islamic "Black September" militants, 1972.*
*

Grand Mosque Seizure in Saudi Arabia, 1979. Approx. 250 Dead, 600 wounded.*
*1980&#8211;1989 *

*

* *

*
* A smoke cloud rises from the 1983 bombed American barracks at Beirut International Airport, which killed 242.*




*



 18 April 1983 &#8211; The April 1983 U.S. Embassy bombing, Beirut, Lebanon by the Islamic Jihad Organization, 63 dead, 120 injured[1]*
*





 14 June 1985 &#8211; TWA Flight 847 was an international Trans World Airlines flight, which was hijacked by members of Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad. 1 dead.*
*

 7 July 1989 &#8211; Tel Aviv Jerusalem bus 405 suicide attack, near Kiryat Yearim. 16 dead*
 
*1990&#8211;1999 *

*

* *

*
*Osama bin Laden (1957&#8211;2011) was the founder of Al-Qaeda, the jihadist organization responsible for many high profile attacks, including the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings and the September 11 attacks.*


*

* *

*
* The 1996 Khobar Towers bombing by Hezbollah Al-Hejaz killed 19 Americans, one Saudi, and wounded 372.*




*

 26 February 1993 &#8211; World Trade Center bombing, in New York City. 6 killed.*
*

 13 March 1993 &#8211; 1993 Bombay bombings. Mumbai, India. 257 dead, 713 injured.*
*

 6 April 1994 &#8211; Afula Bus suicide bombing, Afula. 8 dead*
*

 13 April 1994 &#8211; Hadera bus station suicide bombing, Hadera. 5 dead*
*

 19 October 1994 &#8211; Dizengoff Street bus bombing, Tel Aviv. 22 dead*
*

 24 December 1994 &#8211; Air France Flight 8969 hijacking in Algiers by 3 members of Armed Islamic Group of Algeria and another terrorist. 7 killed including 4 hijackers.*
*

 24 July 1995 &#8211; Ramat Gan bus 20 bombing, Ramat Gan. 6 dead*
*

 21 August 1995 &#8211; Ramat Eshkol bus bombing, Jerusalem. 4 dead*
*

 25 February and 3 March 1996 &#8211; Jaffa Road bus bombings, Jerusalem. 45 dead, 55 injured*
*

 March 4, 1996 &#8211; Dizengoff Center suicide bombing, Tel Aviv. 13 dead*
*

 25 June 1996 &#8211; Khobar Towers bombing, 20 killed, 372 wounded.*
*

 21 March 1997 &#8211; Café Apropo bombing, Tel Aviv. 3 dead*
*

 30 July 1997 &#8211; 1997 Mahane Yehuda Market Bombings, Jerusalem. 16 dead*
*

 4 September 1997 &#8211; Ben Yehuda Street Bombing, Jerusalem. 5 dead*
*

 17 November 1997 &#8211; Luxor attack, 6 armed Islamic terrorists attack tourists at Egypts famous Luxor Ruins. 62 killed, 26 injured.*
*

 14 February 1998 &#8211; Bombing in Coimbatore, Tamil Nadu, India. 13 bombs explode within a 12 km radius. 46 killed and over 200 injured.*
*

 

 7 August 1998 &#8211; 1998 United States embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya. 224 dead. 4000+ injured.*
*

 4&#8211;16 September 1999 &#8211; The Russian apartment bombings were a series of explosions that hit four apartment blocks in the Russian cities of Buynaksk, Moscow, and Volgodonsk.  The explosions occurred in Buynaksk on 4 September, Moscow on 9 and 13  September, and Volgodonsk on 16 September. 293 dead, 1000+ injured.  Several other bombs were defused in Moscow at the time.[2]*


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> Excellent Link. Let's get it out here for all to see!
> 
> List of Islamic terrorist attacks
> 
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The following is a partial list of acts of terrorism committed by Islamic extremists *for the purpose of achieving varying political and/or religious ends*. The total number of deaths as a result of the acts of terrorism listed on this page is 8969.
> Contents
> 
> 
> 1970-1979
> 
> "Munich Massacre" in Germany by Islamic "Black September" militants, 1972.
> Grand Mosque Seizure in Saudi Arabia, 1979. Approx. 250 Dead, 600 wounded.
> 
> 1980&#8211;1989
> 
> 
> A smoke cloud rises from the 1983 bombed American barracks at Beirut International Airport, which killed 242.
> 
> 
> 18 April 1983 &#8211; The April 1983 U.S. Embassy bombing, Beirut, Lebanon by the Islamic Jihad Organization, 63 dead, 120 injured[1]
> 14 June 1985 &#8211; TWA Flight 847 was an international Trans World Airlines flight, which was hijacked by members of Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad. 1 dead.
> 7 July 1989 &#8211; Tel Aviv Jerusalem bus 405 suicide attack, near Kiryat Yearim. 16 dead
> 
> 
> 1990&#8211;1999
> 
> 
> Osama bin Laden (1957&#8211;2011) was the founder of Al-Qaeda, the jihadist organization responsible for many high profile attacks, including the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings and the September 11 attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> The 1996 Khobar Towers bombing by Hezbollah Al-Hejaz killed 19 Americans, one Saudi, and wounded 372.
> 
> 
> 26 February 1993 &#8211; World Trade Center bombing, in New York City. 6 killed.
> 13 March 1993 &#8211; 1993 Bombay bombings. Mumbai, India. 257 dead, 713 injured.
> 6 April 1994 &#8211; Afula Bus suicide bombing, Afula. 8 dead
> 13 April 1994 &#8211; Hadera bus station suicide bombing, Hadera. 5 dead
> 19 October 1994 &#8211; Dizengoff Street bus bombing, Tel Aviv. 22 dead
> 24 December 1994 &#8211; Air France Flight 8969 hijacking in Algiers by 3 members of Armed Islamic Group of Algeria and another terrorist. 7 killed including 4 hijackers.
> 24 July 1995 &#8211; Ramat Gan bus 20 bombing, Ramat Gan. 6 dead
> 21 August 1995 &#8211; Ramat Eshkol bus bombing, Jerusalem. 4 dead
> 25 February and 3 March 1996 &#8211; Jaffa Road bus bombings, Jerusalem. 45 dead, 55 injured
> March 4, 1996 &#8211; Dizengoff Center suicide bombing, Tel Aviv. 13 dead
> 25 June 1996 &#8211; Khobar Towers bombing, 20 killed, 372 wounded.
> 21 March 1997 &#8211; Café Apropo bombing, Tel Aviv. 3 dead
> 30 July 1997 &#8211; 1997 Mahane Yehuda Market Bombings, Jerusalem. 16 dead
> 4 September 1997 &#8211; Ben Yehuda Street Bombing, Jerusalem. 5 dead
> 17 November 1997 &#8211; Luxor attack, 6 armed Islamic terrorists attack tourists at Egypts famous Luxor Ruins. 62 killed, 26 injured.
> 14 February 1998 &#8211; Bombing in Coimbatore, Tamil Nadu, India. 13 bombs explode within a 12 km radius. 46 killed and over 200 injured.
> 7 August 1998 &#8211; 1998 United States embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya. 224 dead. 4000+ injured.
> 4&#8211;16 September 1999 &#8211; The Russian apartment bombings were a series of explosions that hit four apartment blocks in the Russian cities of Buynaksk, Moscow, and Volgodonsk. The explosions occurred in Buynaksk on 4 September, Moscow on 9 and 13 September, and Volgodonsk on 16 September. 293 dead, 1000+ injured. Several other bombs were defused in Moscow at the time.[2]



Apparently you don't even bother to read your own links, let alone others'.  See the word "political" up there?  Because a legitimate poster (Kondor) put this link up I took the liberty of looking into all of the incidents cited here.  How many were religious based?  *Two*-- the 1979 incident in Saudi Arabia and Coimbatore in India (1998)

Of the remaining political acts, committed over either territorial disputes or occupancy by a foreign military, a number (the ones carried out in Israel) were arguably more cultural than political attacks, i.e. based on bigotry, the objective likely being to kill Jews.  In other words persecuting people because of their religion.

This is why bigotry doesn't play real well here.  Duh.

And before you go off on that "this is exclusive to Islam" bullshit, one word:
Belfast.


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent Link. Let's get it out here for all to see!
> 
> List of Islamic terrorist attacks
> 
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The following is a partial list of acts of terrorism committed by Islamic extremists *for the purpose of achieving varying political and/or religious ends*. The total number of deaths as a result of the acts of terrorism listed on this page is 8969.
> Contents
> 
> 
> 1970-1979
> 
> "Munich Massacre" in Germany by Islamic "Black September" militants, 1972.
> Grand Mosque Seizure in Saudi Arabia, 1979. Approx. 250 Dead, 600 wounded.
> 
> 19801989
> 
> 
> A smoke cloud rises from the 1983 bombed American barracks at Beirut International Airport, which killed 242.
> 
> 
> 18 April 1983  The April 1983 U.S. Embassy bombing, Beirut, Lebanon by the Islamic Jihad Organization, 63 dead, 120 injured[1]
> 14 June 1985  TWA Flight 847 was an international Trans World Airlines flight, which was hijacked by members of Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad. 1 dead.
> 7 July 1989  Tel Aviv Jerusalem bus 405 suicide attack, near Kiryat Yearim. 16 dead
> 
> 
> 19901999
> 
> 
> Osama bin Laden (19572011) was the founder of Al-Qaeda, the jihadist organization responsible for many high profile attacks, including the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings and the September 11 attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> The 1996 Khobar Towers bombing by Hezbollah Al-Hejaz killed 19 Americans, one Saudi, and wounded 372.
> 
> 
> 26 February 1993  World Trade Center bombing, in New York City. 6 killed.
> 13 March 1993  1993 Bombay bombings. Mumbai, India. 257 dead, 713 injured.
> 6 April 1994  Afula Bus suicide bombing, Afula. 8 dead
> 13 April 1994  Hadera bus station suicide bombing, Hadera. 5 dead
> 19 October 1994  Dizengoff Street bus bombing, Tel Aviv. 22 dead
> 24 December 1994  Air France Flight 8969 hijacking in Algiers by 3 members of Armed Islamic Group of Algeria and another terrorist. 7 killed including 4 hijackers.
> 24 July 1995  Ramat Gan bus 20 bombing, Ramat Gan. 6 dead
> 21 August 1995  Ramat Eshkol bus bombing, Jerusalem. 4 dead
> 25 February and 3 March 1996  Jaffa Road bus bombings, Jerusalem. 45 dead, 55 injured
> March 4, 1996  Dizengoff Center suicide bombing, Tel Aviv. 13 dead
> 25 June 1996  Khobar Towers bombing, 20 killed, 372 wounded.
> 21 March 1997  Café Apropo bombing, Tel Aviv. 3 dead
> 30 July 1997  1997 Mahane Yehuda Market Bombings, Jerusalem. 16 dead
> 4 September 1997  Ben Yehuda Street Bombing, Jerusalem. 5 dead
> 17 November 1997  Luxor attack, 6 armed Islamic terrorists attack tourists at Egypts famous Luxor Ruins. 62 killed, 26 injured.
> 14 February 1998  Bombing in Coimbatore, Tamil Nadu, India. 13 bombs explode within a 12 km radius. 46 killed and over 200 injured.
> 7 August 1998  1998 United States embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya. 224 dead. 4000+ injured.
> 416 September 1999  The Russian apartment bombings were a series of explosions that hit four apartment blocks in the Russian cities of Buynaksk, Moscow, and Volgodonsk. The explosions occurred in Buynaksk on 4 September, Moscow on 9 and 13 September, and Volgodonsk on 16 September. 293 dead, 1000+ injured. Several other bombs were defused in Moscow at the time.[2]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently you don't even bother to read your own links, let alone others'.  See the word "political" up there?  Because a legitimate poster (Kondor) put this link up I took the liberty of looking into all of the incidents cited here.  How many were religious based?  *Two*-- the 1979 incident in Saudi Arabia and Coimbatore in India (1998)
> 
> Of the remaining political acts, committed over either territorial disputes or occupancy by a foreign military, a number (the ones carried out in Israel) were arguably more cultural than political attacks, i.e. based on bigotry, the objective likely being to kill Jews.  In other words persecuting people because of their religion.
> 
> This is why bigotry doesn't play real well here.  Duh.
> 
> And before you go off on that "this is exclusive to Islam" bullshit, one word:
> Belfast.
Click to expand...


You can try to twist the facts all you want.  Muslims are murderers, and you try to call it disguise it as "bigotry" to justify your violent murders.   If you have a problem with Wiki reporting the murderous acts of Muslims by splitting hairs, then write them not me.  You are not fooling anyone, the facts nail Muslims for the evil low-lifes they are.

The evidence against Muslims as barbarians, murderers, and third world incompetents is overwhelming. Two incidents just yesterday.  You already lost this discussion, and you do not even know it 

The world sees through through your bull shit.  And, television is just beginning to turn up the heat.  Muslims will lose jobs.  Muslims will be the targets of hate crimes.  And, you did it all to yourselves.

It would be funny if all this had not cost American lives, at the hands of heathens.

Whose word do you think members will take?  A fanatic who has never donated at dime to support USMB while making over 4,000 posts while selling a third world agenda, or CBS News, the most respected News Organization on the planet?

Your Muslim public relations agenda has *failed!*

But, I like having you around to bump my thread and keep it hot, and your incompetence proves my point to others in USMB. 

I have a lot more ANTI-Muslim graphics to post.  You idiots made your bed, and now you can lie in it.




​


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent Link. Let's get it out here for all to see!
> 
> List of Islamic terrorist attacks
> 
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The following is a partial list of acts of terrorism committed by Islamic extremists *for the purpose of achieving varying political and/or religious ends*. The total number of deaths as a result of the acts of terrorism listed on this page is 8969.
> Contents
> 
> 
> 1970-1979
> 
> "Munich Massacre" in Germany by Islamic "Black September" militants, 1972.
> Grand Mosque Seizure in Saudi Arabia, 1979. Approx. 250 Dead, 600 wounded.
> 
> 19801989
> 
> 
> A smoke cloud rises from the 1983 bombed American barracks at Beirut International Airport, which killed 242.
> 
> 
> 18 April 1983  The April 1983 U.S. Embassy bombing, Beirut, Lebanon by the Islamic Jihad Organization, 63 dead, 120 injured[1]
> 14 June 1985  TWA Flight 847 was an international Trans World Airlines flight, which was hijacked by members of Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad. 1 dead.
> 7 July 1989  Tel Aviv Jerusalem bus 405 suicide attack, near Kiryat Yearim. 16 dead
> 
> 
> 19901999
> 
> 
> Osama bin Laden (19572011) was the founder of Al-Qaeda, the jihadist organization responsible for many high profile attacks, including the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings and the September 11 attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> The 1996 Khobar Towers bombing by Hezbollah Al-Hejaz killed 19 Americans, one Saudi, and wounded 372.
> 
> 
> 26 February 1993  World Trade Center bombing, in New York City. 6 killed.
> 13 March 1993  1993 Bombay bombings. Mumbai, India. 257 dead, 713 injured.
> 6 April 1994  Afula Bus suicide bombing, Afula. 8 dead
> 13 April 1994  Hadera bus station suicide bombing, Hadera. 5 dead
> 19 October 1994  Dizengoff Street bus bombing, Tel Aviv. 22 dead
> 24 December 1994  Air France Flight 8969 hijacking in Algiers by 3 members of Armed Islamic Group of Algeria and another terrorist. 7 killed including 4 hijackers.
> 24 July 1995  Ramat Gan bus 20 bombing, Ramat Gan. 6 dead
> 21 August 1995  Ramat Eshkol bus bombing, Jerusalem. 4 dead
> 25 February and 3 March 1996  Jaffa Road bus bombings, Jerusalem. 45 dead, 55 injured
> March 4, 1996  Dizengoff Center suicide bombing, Tel Aviv. 13 dead
> 25 June 1996  Khobar Towers bombing, 20 killed, 372 wounded.
> 21 March 1997  Café Apropo bombing, Tel Aviv. 3 dead
> 30 July 1997  1997 Mahane Yehuda Market Bombings, Jerusalem. 16 dead
> 4 September 1997  Ben Yehuda Street Bombing, Jerusalem. 5 dead
> 17 November 1997  Luxor attack, 6 armed Islamic terrorists attack tourists at Egypts famous Luxor Ruins. 62 killed, 26 injured.
> 14 February 1998  Bombing in Coimbatore, Tamil Nadu, India. 13 bombs explode within a 12 km radius. 46 killed and over 200 injured.
> 7 August 1998  1998 United States embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya. 224 dead. 4000+ injured.
> 416 September 1999  The Russian apartment bombings were a series of explosions that hit four apartment blocks in the Russian cities of Buynaksk, Moscow, and Volgodonsk. The explosions occurred in Buynaksk on 4 September, Moscow on 9 and 13 September, and Volgodonsk on 16 September. 293 dead, 1000+ injured. Several other bombs were defused in Moscow at the time.[2]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently you don't even bother to read your own links, let alone others'.  See the word "political" up there?  Because a legitimate poster (Kondor) put this link up I took the liberty of looking into all of the incidents cited here.  How many were religious based?  *Two*-- the 1979 incident in Saudi Arabia and Coimbatore in India (1998)
> 
> Of the remaining political acts, committed over either territorial disputes or occupancy by a foreign military, a number (the ones carried out in Israel) were arguably more cultural than political attacks, i.e. based on bigotry, the objective likely being to kill Jews.  In other words persecuting people because of their religion.
> 
> This is why bigotry doesn't play real well here.  Duh.
> 
> And before you go off on that "this is exclusive to Islam" bullshit, one word:
> Belfast.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can try to message this thing all you want.  Muslims are murderers, and you try to call it bigotry to attack murderers.  Try to twist the facts all you want.  If you have a problem with Wiki reporting the murderous acts of Muslims by splitting hairs, write them not me.
> 
> The evidence against Muslims as barbarians, murderers, and third world incompetents is overwhelming.  You are losing this discussion, because the world sees through your bull shit.
Click to expand...


No, what I did was deconstruct your entire basis for this sorry-ass thread, that of religion.  As just noted a grand total of *two *of all those incidents had anything to do with Islam, and one of them in Saudi Arabia.  So your moronic mantra "Muslims do dis, Muslims do dat" just sounds as ridiculous as ever.



Beachboy said:


> Whose word do you think members will take.  A fanatic who has never donated at dime to support USMB while making over 4,000 name calling posts, or CBS News, the most competent News Organization on the planet.



  Yeah right.  Corporate media has quite the reputation, doesn't it.



Television sells fear to the gullible.  That's how it draws ratings.  That's why the infamous maxim "if it bleeds it leads".  And gullibles like you are exactly what they milk.  Don't worry, most of the population of this site already knows this.  That's why you're a laughingstock.


----------



## Pogo

Esmeralda said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> .... there's an awful lot of Christians who are cherry picking the Bible ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Thou shalt not kill'....except for the exceptions.....
> 
> 
> 
> The commandments
> I am the LORD thy God
> Thou shalt have no other gods
> No graven images or likenesses
> Not take the LORD's name in vain
> Remember the sabbath day
> Honour thy father and thy mother
> Thou shalt not kill
> Thou shalt not commit adultery
> Thou shalt not steal
> Thou shalt not bear false witness
> Thou shalt not covet
Click to expand...


-- and directly plagiarized from the Egyptian Book of the Dead, Chapter 125

Just sayin'


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> Yeah right.  Corporate media has quite the reputation, doesn't it.  Television sells fear to the gullible.  That's how it draws ratings.  That's why the infamous maxim "if it bleeds it leads".  And gullibles like you are exactly what they milk.  Don't worry, most of the population of this site already knows this.  That's why you're a laughingstock.



You really are out of touch.  But, then you apparently have a third world education.

I doubt if you know who Joe Kennedy was.  He was the brains behind the family of President John F. Kennedy.  Joe made a very adept observation.  "The facts are not as important as the PUBLIC PERCEPTION of those facts."

You do not understand the power of the media on this planet.  And to attack CBS, the most trusted, independently owned, news organization on the planet, just adds to your stupidity.

You come in with your name-calling and are not bright enough to realize viewers of this thread are laughing "at" you, not "with" you.

If the members of USMB think this thread is untrue, why are so many viewing it?  Other than a couple other well-known USMB whack jobs, no one is posting with you.  You have no support.  You are all alone.  THE PERCEPTION is that you are a desperate psycho Muslim who will post anything to cover your murderous Muslim bull shit, but please keep bumping my thread.






Truth hurts, huh?​


----------



## Kondor3

Pogo said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think we've exhausted this round, Pogo... we've both jumped through a couple of hoops and laid-out our positions... and neither of us is making any progress... so... 'til the next time we find ourselves tangling over *Equivalency between Christianity and Islam*... ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just as a point of order, that's really not my quest.
> 
> My point is, *IF* we stipulate that "religion" is the sole catalyst of violence and thus lead ourselves to a comparison of this religion versus that one, *THEN *we must cite all the cases of Xian zealot violence that disprove that premise.
> 
> But that's not my premise in the first place; it's the OP's.  I think it's a crock myself, but I'm willing to extend it to its logical conclusion just to show _why _it's a crock.
Click to expand...

I just saw this a moment ago, and will contribute one last afterthought to the exchange...

I have not been stipulating that Religion is the SOLE catalyst of violence...

I have merely held that Islam is more *INHERENTLY SUSCEPTIBLE* to use as the catalyst for violence than are its peers in our present age...


----------



## Beachboy

Beachboy said:


> ******Breaking News******
> 
> *See the video from CBS Television Network.*
> 
> *Ibragim Todashev, a friend of the accused Boston Marathon bomber Tamerlan Tsarnaev, was shot dead by an FBI agent during questioning in Orlando. Todashev was being questioned about a grisly triple murder believed to be committed by the two men.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good riddance you piece of human garbage!​
> Friend implicates Boston bombing suspect in triple homicide - CBS News Video
> 
> * America will not tolerate the murderous Muslim "religion!"
> 
> Time to get tough, and take no prisoners!*​



The PRO-Muslim types tried to bury this utube.  You defintely do not want to miss this.  It will make my fellow Americans feel good!  Payback is a M*ther F*cker!


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> If the members of USMB think this thread is untrue, why are so many viewing it?



The same reason people rubberneck at a car accident.  The same reason people watch fake wrestling and scary-monster stories of "Muslim-dis, Muslim-dat" on Fearmonger news channels.  It draws attention.  And for the easily impressionable with no sense of discretion (or like yourself, with just plain no sense), they have an easy target of a hypnotized pair of eyeballs staring at the screen obediently ingesting everything it wants to feed you.  That is after all how ratings are achieved.

Apparently you may have missed post 372.  Else you'd have some sense of proportion.

Sorry but your pissant juvenile bigotry thread is the rhetorical equivalent of a train wreck.  A messy one.


----------



## Pogo

Kondor3 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think we've exhausted this round, Pogo... we've both jumped through a couple of hoops and laid-out our positions... and neither of us is making any progress... so... 'til the next time we find ourselves tangling over *Equivalency between Christianity and Islam*... ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just as a point of order, that's really not my quest.
> 
> My point is, *IF* we stipulate that "religion" is the sole catalyst of violence and thus lead ourselves to a comparison of this religion versus that one, *THEN *we must cite all the cases of Xian zealot violence that disprove that premise.
> 
> But that's not my premise in the first place; it's the OP's.  I think it's a crock myself, but I'm willing to extend it to its logical conclusion just to show _why _it's a crock.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I just saw this a moment ago, and will contribute one last afterthought to the exchange...
> 
> I have not been stipulating that Religion is the SOLE catalyst of violence...
> 
> I have merely held that Islam is more *INHERENTLY SUSCEPTIBLE* to use as the catalyst for violence than are its peers in our present age...
Click to expand...


Yeah I understand that.  That's why I pointed out the OP as the source of illogic here, but that's the only reason for the comparison to Xianism at all: to carry out the illogic to its inevitable conclusion, i.e. that if 9/11 and bin Laden et al were driven by Islam, then Roeder and Rudolph et al were driven by Xianity.

If the OP does not accept that, then he cannot justify his own premise.  If he _does _accept that, then he gets to ban Islam, but he's got to ban Xianity at the same time.  And then he's got to ship them out too.  Won't be many people left, but I'll still be here


----------



## Beachboy

Pogo said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the members of USMB think this thread is untrue, why are so many viewing it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The same reason people rubberneck at a car accident.  The same reason people watch fake wrestling and scary-monster stories of "Muslim-dis, Muslim-dat" on Fearmonger news channels.  It draws attention.  And for the easily impressionable with no sense of discretion (or like yourself, with just plain no sense), they have an easy target of a hypnotized pair of eyeballs staring at the screen obediently ingesting everything it wants to feed you.  That is after all how ratings are achieved.
> 
> Apparently you may have missed post 372.  Else you'd have some sense of proportion.
> 
> Sorry but your pissant juvenile bigotry thread is the rhetorical equivalent of a train wreck.  A messy one.
Click to expand...


I have two degrees in mass media, and make my living in the entertainment industry.  You are absolutely wasting my time repeating the same old failed name-calling.  I have indulged you long enough. * It is time to put you on "ignore." * Your posts are taking you down the drain, and I enjoyed watching you slide down the crapper.


----------



## Esmeralda

Aristotle said:


> actsnoblemartin said:
> 
> 
> 
> christians are annoying, but they arent blowing themselves up, cutting off people's heads and committing the vast majority of terrorism worldwide.
> 
> now, calm down p.c. police dont get your panties in a wad i didnt say all but enough thats its a damn problem
> 
> when was the last time a christian said, the bible said verse and chapter thats jesus gave me permission to murder my daughter for sleeping with her bf, for honor (sarcasm)
> 
> or i can beat my wife cause the bible says so
> 
> or jesus said the abortion clinic was ok to bomb
> 
> even the bullshit about timothy mcveigh
> 
> i swear the p.c. drivel coming out of your some of your mouths convinces me you couldnt
> 
> rub two brains cells together if you tried
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Westboro protest dead soldiers..
> 
> Christ soldiers kill abortion doctors..
> 
> KKK still burn crosses on lawn...
> 
> KKK is a terrorist group..
> 
> Christians have justified murder using the devil, hence the popularity of "the devil made me do it."
> 
> Want more examples?
Click to expand...


We could definitely say the KKK and White Surpremiscists are Christian Terrorists, and they have been operating in recent times, and still do their dirty work. They have killed, tortured and terrorized people for well over a hundred years in America, in the  name of the Bible which they claim states black people are the devil.  And fundamentalist Christians think they have a right to kill OBGYNs who also perform abortions.  Christians simply cannot claim they are all peaceful and it's the Other religion that is all bad.


----------



## beagle9

Esmeralda said:


> actsnoblemartin said:
> 
> 
> 
> christians are annoying, but they arent blowing themselves up, cutting off people's heads and committing the vast majority of terrorism worldwide.
> 
> now, calm down p.c. police dont get your panties in a wad i didnt say all but enough thats its a damn problem
> 
> when was the last time a christian said, the bible said verse and chapter thats jesus gave me permission to murder my daughter for sleeping with her bf, for honor (sarcasm)
> 
> or i can beat my wife cause the bible says so
> 
> or jesus said the abortion clinic was ok to bomb
> 
> even the bullshit about timothy mcveigh
> 
> i swear the p.c. drivel coming out of your some of your mouths convinces me you couldnt
> 
> rub two brains cells together if you tried
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about the American soldiers in Iraq who raped and murdered an Iraqi girl, and murdered her whole family?  Do you think that kind of thing is an isolated incident?
Click to expand...

You want to go there eh, but I have actual marine vets who were in action in Iraq as friends, and they have some stories to tell about what they actually ran into over there, and it's gruesome what some of the Iraqi soldiers had done to their own people when they thought no one was looking.. My friend had to kill some of them because of catching them in some very bad ordeals. Remember now, many Iraqi's saw Sadams removal as a great day in Iraq, but due to the propaganda machine back here, where everything is in motion to make the Americans look like the enemy of the world, and shockingly it's coming from within this nation,  in which empowers the enemy over seas and here (making them feel more bold and as if they have secret allies here and over there who will help them or back them up), it's so wonder we have a chance to help anyone anymore... 

Then you have our very own President undermining us, with his political speeches that says to the world once again that we flout the law or we are seen as flouting the laws because of Gitmo and such.... That is undermining this nation to the world, and yet he is our President ? I wonder who he is working for, because with all these types of things that he does and says, it sure seems as if it isn't for America.


----------



## S.J.

Esmeralda said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> actsnoblemartin said:
> 
> 
> 
> christians are annoying, but they arent blowing themselves up, cutting off people's heads and committing the vast majority of terrorism worldwide.
> 
> now, calm down p.c. police dont get your panties in a wad i didnt say all but enough thats its a damn problem
> 
> when was the last time a christian said, the bible said verse and chapter thats jesus gave me permission to murder my daughter for sleeping with her bf, for honor (sarcasm)
> 
> or i can beat my wife cause the bible says so
> 
> or jesus said the abortion clinic was ok to bomb
> 
> even the bullshit about timothy mcveigh
> 
> i swear the p.c. drivel coming out of your some of your mouths convinces me you couldnt
> 
> rub two brains cells together if you tried
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Westboro protest dead soldiers..
> 
> Christ soldiers kill abortion doctors..
> 
> KKK still burn crosses on lawn...
> 
> KKK is a terrorist group..
> 
> Christians have justified murder using the devil, hence the popularity of "the devil made me do it."
> 
> Want more examples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We could definitely say the KKK and White Surpremiscists are Christian Terrorists, and they have been operating in recent times, and still do their dirty work. They have killed, tortured and terrorized people for well over a hundred years in America, in the  name of the Bible which they claim states black people are the devil.  And fundamentalist Christians think they have a right to kill OBGYNs who also perform abortions.  Christians simply cannot claim they are all peaceful and it's the Other religion that is all bad.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, the KKK are in the news every day, committing murders and torturing people, aren't they?  Is that the best you can come up with?


----------



## Kondor3

I can't remember the last time 19 members of the KKK hijacked four airliners and crashed all four killing over 3,000 innocent people in one day, but, I don't watch the news as often as I should, and I may have missed something...


----------



## S.J.

Kondor3 said:


> I can't remember the last time 19 members of the KKK hijacked four airliners and crashed all four killing over 3,000 innocent people in one day, but, I don't watch the news as often as I should, and I may have missed something...


The KKK kills thousands of black people every year, it just gets covered up by the right wing media.


----------



## beagle9

You love to put all Christians in one nice little box don't you, yet why is this, so you can hope to defeat them all in this way or in one fail swoop?  As you see we have dealt with our own over time, but I can't say that for other groups to have actually done that, and I don't think that you can either.. Martin Luther King new that their was bad in his people, just like there is bad in all people who gather in a group based on many things, so this is why he made that famous speech in which said in part, *that he longed for a day that a man would be judged not upon the color of his skin, but instead upon the content of his character". *It was true and is still true to this day, so what are you trying to achieve with your blanketing attempt at singling out a group name, as if it isn't just like many groups or people that have many characters within such groups, so this is to achieve what again ? Why not take a look at the groups whom won't out their bad, when many of the others will ? You speak of the KKK, when the white people are the ones who actually defeated them by outing them, and even at the cost of their own lives at times. Problem today is we have groups whom want to call themselves Americans, but won't out those who are undermining this nation from behind their group's identity, and this is a problem in this nation now, and even all over the world maybe.


----------



## Kondor3

S.J. said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't remember the last time 19 members of the KKK hijacked four airliners and crashed all four killing over 3,000 innocent people in one day, but, I don't watch the news as often as I should, and I may have missed something...
> 
> 
> 
> The KKK kills thousands of black people every year, it just gets covered up by the right wing media.
Click to expand...

I ain't touchin' that one with an Eight Foot Hungarian... never mind a Ten Foot Pole...


----------



## Pogo

Kondor3 said:


> I can't remember the last time 19 members of the KKK hijacked four airliners and crashed all four killing over 3,000 innocent people in one day, but, I don't watch the news as often as I should, and I may have missed something...



I may be in the same boat, because I can't remember the last 19 members of a religious movement did that.  Though I do remember a political one.  And a couple of people more recently who can't seem to tell the difference...


----------



## Pogo

Kondor3 said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't remember the last time 19 members of the KKK hijacked four airliners and crashed all four killing over 3,000 innocent people in one day, but, I don't watch the news as often as I should, and I may have missed something...
> 
> 
> 
> The KKK kills thousands of black people every year, it just gets covered up by the right wing media.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I ain't touchin' that one with an Eight Foot Hungarian... never mind a Ten Foot Pole...
Click to expand...


Czech, mate.


----------



## Kondor3

Pogo said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> The KKK kills thousands of black people every year, it just gets covered up by the right wing media.
> 
> 
> 
> I ain't touchin' that one with an Eight Foot Hungarian... never mind a Ten Foot Pole...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Czech, mate.
Click to expand...


OK, now _that_ was damned funny...


----------



## beagle9

Pogo said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> "...Well then you have the same assignment I gave yesterday's troll: show some numbers. Numbers of actual events, not what some book says.  I've already provided a few; build on that..."
> 
> 
> 
> No problem, Pogo...
> 
> Read 'em and weep...
> 
> List of Islamic terrorist attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> And here I thought that you were going to treat us to an example of US (Christian) soldiers in Iraq who raped and murdered in the name of their God or their Religion... my bad.
> 
> As to the list you've served-up, however... strip-out the simple homicides for us and focus upon Acts of Terror in the name of the Christian Vision of God, or in support or defense of fellow Christians, and then you'll have an apples-to-apples basis for comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._This is why I keep saying it's a distinction without a difference_..."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see that oh-so-differently...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1) I didn't mean a link to Wiki.  I can do that myself (don't tell nobody but I often do).  I meant a side-by-side comparison of comparable numbers.  I've already posted about the proportion of Muslim terrorism (variously 2.5 and 6 percent, depending on the range); what we need is a comparison.
> 
> _That is, we "need" it only if we're committed to wallowing in the idea that we're tallying scores in some kind of religion-versus-religion sports event, which is the OP's idea but not mine..._
> 
> 2) the solders in Iraq was somebody else's example, not mine.  I'm sure there are worthy examples from various battlefields as well as domestic violence, but the names I tossed out were all perpetrators who by their own admission acted in the name of Xianity on some domestic religious principle.
> 
> .... Which again, see italics above, is not my point, it's just a comparison to disprove the fallacy.  But there are no "simple homicides" in there; it's _*entirely *_made up of religion-based zealots who are confirmed as such, no Catholic pun intended.  It's already apples to apples.  I'm way ahead of you.
> 
> Why would I stack the deck?  It's not like these people are hard to find, unfortunately.
> 
> 3) Obviously we do see it differently.  I see one religion pushing a primitive book of social mores of a way-bygone era with all kinds of weird ideas that some wacko fundamentalists take to heart and act out in extreme ways, and another religion pushing a primitive book of social mores of a way-bygone era with all kinds of weird ideas that some wacko fundamentalists take to heart and act out in extreme ways.  See the difference?  Me neither.  The distinction is lost on me, but it's impossible to look at these two apples and not conclude they're both fountains of wacko.
Click to expand...

This nation is full of Christians, and if you don't like that, or if you are afraid of them, well then leave... Something tells me that you aren't afraid of them, but are only trying to use them in some twisted way, in order to defend another, yet you are doing this by trashing the Christians in the process.   What do you hope to gain by this putting a people who has been a part of the fabric of this nation since it's inception somehow in the same boat with those who are actually killing Americans (some Christians, some not), *currently *in which is a huge problem right now, and not years ago, but right now ?


----------



## Kondor3

Pogo said:


> "..._And a couple of people more recently who can't seem to tell the difference_..."


Not to mention the types that cannot discern hybrids (_political warfare groups with a strong religious basis_) which are nearly indistinguishable from purely religious fanatics in many respects...


----------



## Pogo

beagle9 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No problem, Pogo...
> 
> Read 'em and weep...
> 
> List of Islamic terrorist attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> And here I thought that you were going to treat us to an example of US (Christian) soldiers in Iraq who raped and murdered in the name of their God or their Religion... my bad.
> 
> As to the list you've served-up, however... strip-out the simple homicides for us and focus upon Acts of Terror in the name of the Christian Vision of God, or in support or defense of fellow Christians, and then you'll have an apples-to-apples basis for comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> I see that oh-so-differently...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1) I didn't mean a link to Wiki.  I can do that myself (don't tell nobody but I often do).  I meant a side-by-side comparison of comparable numbers.  I've already posted about the proportion of Muslim terrorism (variously 2.5 and 6 percent, depending on the range); what we need is a comparison.
> 
> _That is, we "need" it only if we're committed to wallowing in the idea that we're tallying scores in some kind of religion-versus-religion sports event, which is the OP's idea but not mine..._
> 
> 2) the solders in Iraq was somebody else's example, not mine.  I'm sure there are worthy examples from various battlefields as well as domestic violence, but the names I tossed out were all perpetrators who by their own admission acted in the name of Xianity on some domestic religious principle.
> 
> .... Which again, see italics above, is not my point, it's just a comparison to disprove the fallacy.  But there are no "simple homicides" in there; it's _*entirely *_made up of religion-based zealots who are confirmed as such, no Catholic pun intended.  It's already apples to apples.  I'm way ahead of you.
> 
> Why would I stack the deck?  It's not like these people are hard to find, unfortunately.
> 
> 3) Obviously we do see it differently.  I see one religion pushing a primitive book of social mores of a way-bygone era with all kinds of weird ideas that some wacko fundamentalists take to heart and act out in extreme ways, and another religion pushing a primitive book of social mores of a way-bygone era with all kinds of weird ideas that some wacko fundamentalists take to heart and act out in extreme ways.  See the difference?  Me neither.  The distinction is lost on me, but it's impossible to look at these two apples and not conclude they're both fountains of wacko.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This nation is full of Christians, and if you don't like that, or if you are afraid of them, well then leave... Something tells me that you aren't afraid of them, but are only trying to use them in some twisted way, in order to defend another, yet you are doing this by trashing the Christians in the process.   What do you hope to gain by this putting a people who has been a part of the fabric of this nation since it's inception somehow in the same boat with those who are actually killing Americans (some Christians, some not), *currently *in which is a huge problem right now, and not years ago, but right now ?
Click to expand...


Did you read any of the post you quoted at all, or are you just ignorant?

For the umpteenth time, the only reason Xian terrorism is brought up here is to take the OP's logic to its inevitable conclusion to demonstrate its absurdity -- and I'm just going to type the same thing over and over until it sinks in-- IF bin Laden and the 9/11 group did what they did on account of Islam, THEN Rudolph and Roeder and Salvi and Earl and Kopp and Jennings (etc etc etc) did what they did on account of Xiamism.  Same thing.  It's called applying the same standards consistently rather than selectively.

If on the other hand either one was not driven to do what they did based on religion, then neither was the other one.

You can't have it one way when it serves your argument and then another way when it contradicts it.

Hell, we could just take a list of all the national violence committed yesterday, or last week or last month, and count how many of the perps were Christian.  Wanna go there?

Did I run that by too fast?


----------



## Pogo

Kondor3 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._And a couple of people more recently who can't seem to tell the difference_..."
> 
> 
> 
> Not to mention the types that cannot discern hybrids (_political warfare groups with a strong religious basis_) which are nearly indistinguishable from purely religious fanatics in many respects...
Click to expand...


And as we all know, guys who are about to hijack planes hanging out with strippers in Vegas are real religious fanatics...


----------



## Kondor3

Pogo said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._And a couple of people more recently who can't seem to tell the difference_..."
> 
> 
> 
> Not to mention the types that cannot discern hybrids (_political warfare groups with a strong religious basis_) which are nearly indistinguishable from purely religious fanatics in many respects...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And as we all know, guys who are about to hijack planes hanging out with strippers in Vegas are real religious fanatics...
Click to expand...

Why not? Domestic wingnut-moralist-hypocrites hang out with strippers in Vegas all the time. So do some Dem bureaucrats for that matter. Next slide, please.


----------



## Esmeralda

beagle9 said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> actsnoblemartin said:
> 
> 
> 
> christians are annoying, but they arent blowing themselves up, cutting off people's heads and committing the vast majority of terrorism worldwide.
> 
> now, calm down p.c. police dont get your panties in a wad i didnt say all but enough thats its a damn problem
> 
> when was the last time a christian said, the bible said verse and chapter thats jesus gave me permission to murder my daughter for sleeping with her bf, for honor (sarcasm)
> 
> or i can beat my wife cause the bible says so
> 
> or jesus said the abortion clinic was ok to bomb
> 
> even the bullshit about timothy mcveigh
> 
> i swear the p.c. drivel coming out of your some of your mouths convinces me you couldnt
> 
> rub two brains cells together if you tried
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about the American soldiers in Iraq who raped and murdered an Iraqi girl, and murdered her whole family?  Do you think that kind of thing is an isolated incident?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You want to go there eh, but I have actual marine vets who were in action in Iraq as friends, and they have some stories to tell about what they actually ran into over there, and it's gruesome what some of the Iraqi soldiers had done to their own people when they thought no one was looking.. My friend had to kill some of them because of catching them in some very bad ordeals. Remember now, many Iraqi's saw Sadams removal as a great day in Iraq, but due to the propaganda machine back here, where everything is in motion to make the Americans look like the enemy of the world, and shockingly it's coming from within this nation,  in which empowers the enemy over seas and here (making them feel more bold and as if they have secret allies here and over there who will help them or back them up), it's so wonder we have a chance to help anyone anymore...
> 
> Then you have our very own President undermining us, with his political speeches that says to the world once again that we flout the law or we are seen as flouting the laws because of Gitmo and such.... That is undermining this nation to the world, and yet he is our President ? I wonder who he is working for, because with all these types of things that he does and says, it sure seems as if it isn't for America.
Click to expand...


Blah, blah, blah, blah......what the hell are you talking about?  How about providing some specific, credible and verifiable evidence for what you are saying instead of blathering endlessing about naught?


----------



## Esmeralda

Beachboy said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1624 Views of this thread.  America loves it when I say it for them.
> 
> Can you tell which picture does not fit in with America?  Look real hard!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah.  Your avatar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1624 views, he pants and gasps.  And every one of them is laughing at you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do I detect a bit of hatred toward blond-haired, blue-eyed, native born Americans?  Like I care.
> 
> One look and you can tell I belong in the United States or Europe.  Eat your heart out.  You are looking at the real thing, and you will never look this good!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just the way we look intimidates Muslims sexually.    ​
Click to expand...


LMAO

Turkish men are the sexist most gorgeous men in the world, except for the Italians, and  it is pretty much a tie.  Just ask any Western woman who has been to Turkey.  Turkey is 97% Muslim, btw.


----------



## beagle9

Good Grief....


----------



## Beachboy

Esmeralda said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> actsnoblemartin said:
> 
> 
> 
> christians are annoying, but they arent blowing themselves up, cutting off people's heads and committing the vast majority of terrorism worldwide.
> 
> now, calm down p.c. police dont get your panties in a wad i didnt say all but enough thats its a damn problem
> 
> when was the last time a christian said, the bible said verse and chapter thats jesus gave me permission to murder my daughter for sleeping with her bf, for honor (sarcasm)
> 
> or i can beat my wife cause the bible says so
> 
> or jesus said the abortion clinic was ok to bomb
> 
> even the bullshit about timothy mcveigh
> 
> i swear the p.c. drivel coming out of your some of your mouths convinces me you couldnt
> 
> rub two brains cells together if you tried
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Westboro protest dead soldiers..
> 
> Christ soldiers kill abortion doctors..
> 
> KKK still burn crosses on lawn...
> 
> KKK is a terrorist group..
> 
> Christians have justified murder using the devil, hence the popularity of "the devil made me do it."
> 
> Want more examples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We could definitely say the KKK and White Surpremiscists are Christian Terrorists, and they have been operating in recent times, and still do their dirty work. They have killed, tortured and terrorized people for well over a hundred years in America, in the  name of the Bible which they claim states black people are the devil.  And fundamentalist Christians think they have a right to kill OBGYNs who also perform abortions.  Christians simply cannot claim they are all peaceful and it's the Other religion that is all bad.
Click to expand...



First of all the question is not about "Terrorists of yesteryear."  And far be it from me to defend the KKK or White Supremacists.  You are overstating the situation.  The KKK, White Supremacists, nor Christians have not blown up Muslim cities to kill innocent people.  President Obama restated his "War on Terrorism" in a new conference yesterday.  Obama: America at a "crossroads" in fighting terrorism - CBS News 

Unlike in years past, Mr. Obama argued, the core of al Qaeda in  Afghanistan and Pakistan is no longer the greatest terrorist risk  confronting the U.S. Instead, he said, the U.S. has seen the emergence  of threats from localized al Qaeda affiliates around the world, as well  as from 
"radicalized individuals here in the United States."

*There you have it directly from the President of the United States.*



American drones do *NOT* target civilians.  The civilians that have been killed* are collateral damage, in a war zone.*  These were people that were around Al Qaeda leaders, and frankly got what they deserved.  Play with shit, and you are going to get it on you. 

Has *ANY* Muslim country declared war on the United States?  No.  So, the *United States is not a war zone,* making the 9-11 perpetrators and Boston Marathon bombers terrorists, not soldiers.  The only thing Muslims understand is violence, and America has a whole lot of hurt going their way.






​


----------



## Beachboy

Beachboy said:


> ******Breaking News******
> 
> *See the video from CBS Television Network.*
> 
> *Ibragim Todashev, a friend of the accused Boston Marathon bomber Tamerlan Tsarnaev, was shot dead by an FBI agent during questioning in Orlando. Todashev was being questioned about a grisly triple murder believed to be committed by the two men.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good riddance you piece of human garbage!​
> Friend implicates Boston bombing suspect in triple homicide - CBS News Video
> 
> * America will not tolerate the murderous Muslim "religion!"
> 
> Time to get tough, and take no prisoners!*​



And, you did not want to miss the, The FBI, shoot to kill Muslim in Orlando.  Yep, time to get tough with Muslims, and take no prisoners.  The purge has begun!  Jerk those Muslim green cards!


----------



## Beachboy

Beachboy said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islam, isn't it great?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soldier killed in attack near London barracks, lawmaker says - CNN.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We don't even have to post about these Muslim animals, they have turned world opinion against themselves twice in one day.  Here in London, and the FBI shooting of a Muslim in Orlando, Florida.  Thanks for doing my work for me, your psycho barbarians.
> 
> Here is the video of this whack job from CBS News.
> 
> British soldier savagely killed in London machete attack - CBS News Video​
Click to expand...


And, let's not forget about this whack job Muslim in London yesterday.


----------



## beagle9

Beachboy said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islam, isn't it great?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soldier killed in attack near London barracks, lawmaker says - CNN.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We don't even have to post about these Muslim animals, they have turned world opinion against themselves twice in one day.  Here in London, and the FBI shooting of a Muslim in Orlando, Florida.  Thanks for doing my work for me, your psycho barbarians.
> 
> Here is the video of this whack job from CBS News.
> 
> British soldier savagely killed in London machete attack - CBS News Video​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And, let's not forget about this whack job Muslim in London yesterday.
Click to expand...

I was shocked at the woman they had interviewed in the video, who made statements for the terrorist in this effect "these guy's were just pissed off that *WHITE* men were killing their people, and that means Americans and Brittish she explained". I first thought she was someone courageous, but when I saw where here leanings went (sympothy for the Devil of war himself in such a statement as that), I quickly turned on her as found within my opinion of her. I mean how many people are out there thinking that it is America's and Brittians fault that we are at war with these sorts of people ? It sounds to me that the American and Brittish Government had best get their houses in order, because the war on terror is being won mainly on the streets through influencing citizen by citizen right beneath their very own noses (undermining the very foundations these two nations sit upon). This woman was a sympothizer, and that is why these murderors did not mis-treat her.


----------



## Beachboy

Esmeralda said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah.  Your avatar.
> 1624 views, he pants and gasps.  And every one of them is laughing at you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do I detect a bit of hatred toward blond-haired, blue-eyed, native born Americans?  Like I care.
> 
> One look and you can tell I belong in the United States or Europe.  Eat your heart out.  You are looking at the real thing, and you will never look this good!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just the way we look intimidates Muslims sexually.    ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LMAO
> 
> Turkish men are the sexist most gorgeous men in the world, except for the Italians, and  it is pretty much a tie.  Just ask any Western woman who has been to Turkey.  Turkey is 97% Muslim, btw.
Click to expand...


Yes, I must confess I threw that red meat out there as bait.  This was posted days ago.  It is no surprise that Pogo would be the one to take on this ridiculous post.  And his response priceless!

Just for fun I Googled the question.  "What race is the most attractive?"  The response is that people respond with their own race.  Guess the shrinks are right, there is racial prejudice in all of us.


----------



## Beachboy

*The OP*



Beachboy said:


> *
> 
> *
> *If we did not allow Muslim foreigners into the United States...........
> 
> ......**there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  Duh!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​ *
> This is not rocket science.
> *


----------



## Beachboy

Beachboy said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Westboro protest dead soldiers..
> 
> Christ soldiers kill abortion doctors..
> 
> KKK still burn crosses on lawn...
> 
> KKK is a terrorist group..
> 
> Christians have justified murder using the devil, hence the popularity of "the devil made me do it."
> 
> Want more examples?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We could definitely say the KKK and White Surpremiscists are Christian Terrorists, and they have been operating in recent times, and still do their dirty work. They have killed, tortured and terrorized people for well over a hundred years in America, in the  name of the Bible which they claim states black people are the devil.  And fundamentalist Christians think they have a right to kill OBGYNs who also perform abortions.  Christians simply cannot claim they are all peaceful and it's the Other religion that is all bad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> First of all the question is not about "Terrorists of yesteryear."  And far be it from me to defend the KKK or White Supremacists.  You are overstating the situation.  The KKK, White Supremacists, nor Christians have not blown up Muslim cities to kill innocent people.  President Obama restated his "War on Terrorism" in a new conference yesterday.  Obama: America at a "crossroads" in fighting terrorism - CBS News
> 
> Unlike in years past, Mr. Obama argued, the core of al Qaeda in  Afghanistan and Pakistan is no longer the greatest terrorist risk  confronting the U.S. Instead, he said, the U.S. has seen the emergence  of threats from localized al Qaeda affiliates around the world, as well  as from
> "radicalized individuals here in the United States."
> 
> *There you have it directly from the President of the United States.*
> 
> 
> 
> American drones do *NOT* target civilians.  The civilians that have been killed* are collateral damage, in a war zone.*  These were people that were around Al Qaeda leaders, and frankly got what they deserved.  Play with shit, and you are going to get it on you.
> 
> Has *ANY* Muslim country declared war on the United States?  No.  So, the *United States is not a war zone,* making the 9-11 perpetrators and Boston Marathon bombers terrorists, not soldiers.  The only thing Muslims understand is violence, and America has a whole lot of hurt going their way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
Click to expand...


*Suddenly, the Muslims in this thread shut up when the President of the United States calls them liars.  

Domestic Muslim terrorism has been raised as a national priority!

All I can say is "I told you so!"
*


----------



## Intense

*Moved To Immigration*


----------



## Beachboy

Since it would appear that this thread has been buried by those afraid of the truth about murdering Muslims in the United States, 

I wanted to find a graphic that would sum up the hatred of the third world toward American freedom, and demonstrate the ignorance of these hateful Jihadists.





549 Posts, *7,004 views.*  Looks like a USMB record.
​


----------



## ABikerSailor

Hey BitchyBoi...................what about all the murdering Christians who blew up abortion clinics and shot doctors in their own churches?


----------



## beagle9

ABikerSailor said:


> Hey BitchyBoi...................what about all the murdering Christians who blew up abortion clinics and shot doctors in their own churches?


That's all been handled on a case by case basis (closed & completed cases now), and this will be also, so what are you trying to say really with these comparisons? Is it maybe that we should ignore the hate and killings (according to you), that these people are showing and doing, just because we have had some problems in the past that are similar ? Hey this is now, and that was then, so what date are you currently living in ?


----------



## Esmeralda

beagle9 said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey BitchyBoi...................what about all the murdering Christians who blew up abortion clinics and shot doctors in their own churches?
> 
> 
> 
> That's all been handled on a case by case basis (closed & completed cases now), and this will be also, so what are you trying to say really with these comparisons? Is it maybe that we should ignore the hate and killings (according to you), that these people are showing and doing, just because we have had some problems in the past that are similar ? Hey this is now, and that was then, so what date are you currently living in ?
Click to expand...


It means you need to put things into perspective and admit that it isn't only Muslims who do violence, who hate, who hijack a religion and do heinous things in the name of God.  Things like this, for example.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16th_Street_Baptist_Church_bombing  This isn't ancient history.  Just because this wasn't done yesterday does not mean it is irrelevant.  Christians did this.  Christians have done and still do violent things.


----------



## S.J.

ABikerSailor said:


> Hey BitchyBoi...................what about all the murdering Christians who blew up abortion clinics and shot doctors in their own churches?


Oh yeah, thousands of abortion clinics are bombed every year.


----------



## beagle9

Esmeralda said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey BitchyBoi...................what about all the murdering Christians who blew up abortion clinics and shot doctors in their own churches?
> 
> 
> 
> That's all been handled on a case by case basis (closed & completed cases now), and this will be also, so what are you trying to say really with these comparisons? Is it maybe that we should ignore the hate and killings (according to you), that these people are showing and doing, just because we have had some problems in the past that are similar ? Hey this is now, and that was then, so what date are you currently living in ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It means you need to put things into perspective and admit that it isn't only Muslims who do violence, who hate, who hijack a religion and do heinous things in the name of God.  It means get a fucking brain.
Click to expand...

The only perspective I know, is what is happening right now, and not what has happened in the past in which has already been dealt with, nor what had happened in the stone ages either, but what has been happening recently or right now. Got it ?


----------



## Esmeralda

beagle9 said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's all been handled on a case by case basis (closed & completed cases now), and this will be also, so what are you trying to say really with these comparisons? Is it maybe that we should ignore the hate and killings (according to you), that these people are showing and doing, just because we have had some problems in the past that are similar ? Hey this is now, and that was then, so what date are you currently living in ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It means you need to put things into perspective and admit that it isn't only Muslims who do violence, who hate, who hijack a religion and do heinous things in the name of God.  It means get a fucking brain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only perspective I know, is what is happening right now, and not what has happened in the past in which has already been dealt with, nor what had happened in the stone ages either, but what has been happening recently or right now. Got it ?
Click to expand...


&#8220;If the Party could thrust its hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened-that, surely, was more terrifying than mere torture and death?...But where did that knowledge exist? Only in his consciousness, which in any case must soon be annihilated...'Who controls the past,' ran the Party slogan,'controls the future:who controls the present controls the past.'...All that was needed was a series of victories over your own memory.&#8221; 
&#8213; George Orwell, 1984

What Orwell means is that the 'party,' the totalitarian government in the novel 1984, controls knowledge and awareness of past events, eliminating from the collective memory any events they don't want the current populace to think about.  That way, they can control people better.  Fortunately, neither you nor your sort have control over the past.  We must remember the past so we can live in the present with clarity of mind, with knowledge, with wisdom and vison, so we can understand the present and put events in the here and now into perspective.  Shutting out from memory or meaning events of the past allows YOU to control how you see the present, but others who are wiser and more circumspect realize that past events influence and shape the present and the future as well as giving us a broader vision of the human experience and the human condition.

Those of us who accept the past as a part of ourselves and our human commonality realize that the terrorism we see today is the same type of behavior that has been visited upon others by those we consider our people, our antecedents.  We realize that all of humanity has done heinous things, that such things are not limited to any one culture, ethnic group, religion, nationality , gender, etc.  You can pretend all you want that the past does not matter, but it does. Fortunately, not all people believe as you do, hopefully, not most.


----------



## Meathead

Esmeralda said:


> Those of us who accept the past as a part of ourselves and our human commonality realize that the terrorism we see today is the same type of behavior that has been visited upon others by those we consider our people, our antecedents.  We realize that all of humanity has done heinous things, that such things are not limited to any one culture, ethnic group, religion, nationality , gender, etc.  You can pretend all you want that the past does not matter, but it does. Fortunately, not all people believe as you do, hopefully, not most.


Sounds very much like a weak justification for terrorism. Of course the past matters, but most cultures and peoples are able to move on. I don't see the Vietnamese flying planes into US skyscrapers although they certainly would have far more justification than the Islamist swamp you champion.


----------



## Esmeralda

Meathead said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those of us who accept the past as a part of ourselves and our human commonality realize that the terrorism we see today is the same type of behavior that has been visited upon others by those we consider our people, our antecedents.  We realize that all of humanity has done heinous things, that such things are not limited to any one culture, ethnic group, religion, nationality , gender, etc.  You can pretend all you want that the past does not matter, but it does. Fortunately, not all people believe as you do, hopefully, not most.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds very much like a weak justification for terrorism. Of course the past matters, but most cultures and peoples are able to move on. I don't see the Vietnamese flying planes into US skyscrapers although they certainly would have far more justification than the Islamist swamp you champion.
Click to expand...


You have completely missed the point of my post.

However, if you want to suggest that the Vietnamese could have a grievance against the US for bombing them and killing thousands upon thousands of innocent civilians, let's take that point and look at it in regards to Muslims.  America has done that to Muslims and continues to do that now, in the present.  They are called, as they were in Vietnam, "collateral damage."  The Boston Marathon bomber called those killed "collateral damage."  I am IN NO WAY justifying or excusing that act of terrorism, or any act of terrorism. My intent and my heart is not about justifying, condoning, or accepting terrorism, quite the contrary. But we have to admit that people we drop bombs on are going to have a grievance, and as they are essentially powerless to fight back in a traditional way, to fight against us on the battlefield with any hope of success, they use terrorism.  It is like guerilla warfare.  These are people who don't have the ability to fight with us on our level, so they use guerilla warfare or terrorism.  Also, as such a strong ally of Israel, we are seen as supporting the excessively brutal responses to Palestinian attacks that Israel uses: one or two Israelis are killed by a Hezbolla rocket, and Israel responds by killing hundreds of people, civilians, and leveling homes and businesses that have nothing to do with the rocket attack.  As heinous as it is, terrorism is their only way of fighting back, and yes, it kills civilians, but so do we, pretty much every day. Again, I am not justifying, I am trying to explain the causal chain here.


----------



## Meathead

Esmeralda said:


> You have completely missed the point of my post.
> 
> However, if you want to suggest that the Vietnamese have a grievance against the US for bombing them and killing thousands upon thousands of innocent civilians, let's take that point and look at it in regards to Muslims.  American has done that and continues to do that now, in the present.  They are called, as they were in Vietnam, "collateral damage."  The Boston Marathon bomber called those killed "collateral damage."  I am IN NO WAY


Your point was rationalizing the deliberate targeting of people by medieval people with medieval minds not as collateral damage, but brought about as a result of perceived historical injustices. My point was that those who seek to improve their lives and not dwell on perverse interpretations of history may do so successfully as the Vietnamese are doing today.

The damage done to the Muslim world is largely self-inflicted and it will continue to be so until they can come to terms with their own role in the catastrophe of so much of their own religion and culture. Wherever Islam borders with other religions in today's world, spanning from the Philippines to Nigeria and Central Asia to Kenya, violence and intolerance are the order of the day. 

If it were confined to that huge swath, that would not be of immediate concern to the rest of the world. However, in the name of multiculturalism, significant Muslim population now find themselves embedded in the west and with them have brought a disturbing and suicidal mindset. They should not be given to chance to parasitically infect the far more progressed civilizations in which they have settled. Sweden is an excellent example.

The damage in their case, and I suspect yours, is not "collateral"; rather pathological.


----------



## Esmeralda

Meathead said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have completely missed the point of my post.
> 
> However, if you want to suggest that the Vietnamese have a grievance against the US for bombing them and killing thousands upon thousands of innocent civilians, let's take that point and look at it in regards to Muslims.  American has done that and continues to do that now, in the present.  They are called, as they were in Vietnam, "collateral damage."  The Boston Marathon bomber called those killed "collateral damage."  I am IN NO WAY
> 
> 
> 
> Your point was rationalizing the deliberate targeting of people by medieval people with medieval minds not as collateral damage, but brought about as a result of perceived historical injustices. My point was that those who seek to improve their lives and not dwell on perverse interpretations of history may do so successfully as the Vietnamese are doing today.
> 
> The damage done to the Muslim world is largely self-inflicted and it will continue to be so until they can come to terms with their own role in the catastrophe of so much of their own religion and culture. Wherever Islam borders with other religions in today's world, spanning from the Philippines to Nigeria and Central Asia to Kenya, violence and intolerance are the order of the day.
> 
> If it were confined to that huge swath, that would not be of immediate concern to the rest of the world. However, in the name of multiculturalism, significant Muslim population now find themselves embedded in the west and with them have brought a disturbing and suicidal mindset. They should not be given to chance to parasitically infect the far more progressed civilizations in which they have settled. Sweden is an excellent example.
> 
> The damage in their case, and I suspect yours, is not "collateral"; rather pathological.
Click to expand...

You are the one who is pathological.  Pathologically so full of hatred you cannot see reason.


----------



## Kondor3

Esmeralda said:


> "..._You are the one who is pathological. Pathologically so full of hatred you cannot see reason._"


No.

Actually, he has a point.

Islam is incompatible with Western Culture, in the final analysis.

The sooner we admit that to ourselves, the safer and happier we will be.

I really and truly wish that this was not the case.

But it is, what it is.

No point wandering-about this life with a pair of touchy-feely blinkers on.

With instantaneous communications and high speed travel, the world has become far too dangerous a place to hide our heads in the sand and pretend those dangers do not exist.

Because they do.

That is not xenophobia.

That is simple truth.


----------



## beagle9

Esmeralda said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> It means you need to put things into perspective and admit that it isn't only Muslims who do violence, who hate, who hijack a religion and do heinous things in the name of God.  It means get a fucking brain.
> 
> 
> 
> The only perspective I know, is what is happening right now, and not what has happened in the past in which has already been dealt with, nor what had happened in the stone ages either, but what has been happening recently or right now. Got it ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> &#8220;If the Party could thrust its hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened-that, surely, was more terrifying than mere torture and death?...But where did that knowledge exist? Only in his consciousness, which in any case must soon be annihilated...'Who controls the past,' ran the Party slogan,'controls the future:who controls the present controls the past.'...All that was needed was a series of victories over your own memory.&#8221;
> &#8213; George Orwell, 1984
> 
> What Orwell means is that the 'party,' the totalitarian government in the novel 1984, controls knowledge and awareness of past events, eliminating from the collective memory any events they don't want the current populace to think about.  That way, they can control people better.  Fortunately, neither you nor your sort have control over the past.  We must remember the past so we can live in the present with clarity of mind, with knowledge, with wisdom and vison, so we can understand the present and put events in the here and now into perspective.  Shutting out from memory or meaning events of the past allows YOU to control how you see the present, but others who are wiser and more circumspect realize that past events influence and shape the present and the future as well as giving us a broader vision of the human experience and the human condition.
> 
> Those of us who accept the past as a part of ourselves and our human commonality realize that the terrorism we see today is the same type of behavior that has been visited upon others by those we consider our people, our antecedents.  We realize that all of humanity has done heinous things, that such things are not limited to any one culture, ethnic group, religion, nationality , gender, etc.  You can pretend all you want that the past does not matter, but it does. Fortunately, not all people believe as you do, hopefully, not most.
Click to expand...

It all depends on how the past is utilized or is being used in context there of, and you know this, but you try and wiggle this away, and wiggle that away in order to make some other big mess of words as so to spin your way around and around or possibly out of this hole you keep digging for yourself, but I see through it all. You are using the past wrongfully (imho), and that is just my opinion of you and your words here. I could understand you referring to the past for an antidote maybe or a judgment maybe in order to get to a final verdict on the acts of those whom are guilty in the current, but you are using the past politically inorder to empower an agenda in which leaves us vulnerable, and that is just wrong or rather a wrongful usage of it.


----------



## Esmeralda

beagle9 said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only perspective I know, is what is happening right now, and not what has happened in the past in which has already been dealt with, nor what had happened in the stone ages either, but what has been happening recently or right now. Got it ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> &#8220;If the Party could thrust its hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened-that, surely, was more terrifying than mere torture and death?...But where did that knowledge exist? Only in his consciousness, which in any case must soon be annihilated...'Who controls the past,' ran the Party slogan,'controls the future:who controls the present controls the past.'...All that was needed was a series of victories over your own memory.&#8221;
> &#8213; George Orwell, 1984
> 
> What Orwell means is that the 'party,' the totalitarian government in the novel 1984, controls knowledge and awareness of past events, eliminating from the collective memory any events they don't want the current populace to think about.  That way, they can control people better.  Fortunately, neither you nor your sort have control over the past.  We must remember the past so we can live in the present with clarity of mind, with knowledge, with wisdom and vison, so we can understand the present and put events in the here and now into perspective.  Shutting out from memory or meaning events of the past allows YOU to control how you see the present, but others who are wiser and more circumspect realize that past events influence and shape the present and the future as well as giving us a broader vision of the human experience and the human condition.
> 
> Those of us who accept the past as a part of ourselves and our human commonality realize that the terrorism we see today is the same type of behavior that has been visited upon others by those we consider our people, our antecedents.  We realize that all of humanity has done heinous things, that such things are not limited to any one culture, ethnic group, religion, nationality , gender, etc.  You can pretend all you want that the past does not matter, but it does. Fortunately, not all people believe as you do, hopefully, not most.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It all depends on how the past is utilized or is being used in context there of, and you know this, but you try and wiggle this away, and wiggle that away in order to make some other big mess of words as so to spin your way around and around or possibly out of this hole you keep digging for yourself, but I see through it all. You are using the past wrongfully (imho), and that is just my opinion of you and your words here. I could understand you referring to the past for an antidote maybe or a judgment maybe in order to get to a final verdict on the acts of those whom are guilty in the current, but you are using the past politically inorder to empower an agenda in which leaves us vulnerable, and that is just wrong or rather a wrongful usage of it.
Click to expand...


No, I am not 'using' the past. And it isn't about politics; it is about awareness of the human experience.  But I see you don't want to be aware.  I see you want only to believe what you want to believe, which is seeing things in simplistic terms and that the here and now is somehow lived in a vacuum that has nothing to do with the past.  You say you "see through it all," but you don't see anything, you see a "wall of words,' as you put it, because, apparently, my post is too complex for you to understand.  It isn't a wall of words or a big mess; in fact, it is quite simply and directly expressed.


----------



## Meathead

Esmeralda said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What Orwell means is that the 'party,' the totalitarian government in the novel 1984, controls knowledge and awareness of past events, eliminating from the collective memory any events they don't want the current populace to think about.  That way, they can control people better.
> 
> No, I am not 'using' the past. And it isn't about politics; it is about awareness of the human experience.  But I see you don't want to be aware.  I see you want only to believe what you want to believe, which is seeing things in simplistic terms and that the here and now is somehow lived in a vacuum that has nothing to do with the past.  You say you "see through it all," but you don't see anything, you see a "wall of words,' as you put it, because, apparently, my post is too complex for you to understand.  It isn't a wall of words or a big mess; in fact, it is quite simply and directly expressed.
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda, you are transparently using the past to justify atrocities in the present. That you state that others see what they want to see and are thus simplistic shows me how little insight you have into yourself. Btw, your posts are not at all too complicated to understand. In fact, as I said they are transparent and indeed simplistic. Furthermore, you presume to interpret a thinker like Orwell as though others are incapable of understanding.
> 
> Seriously, you'll find the validation that you so desperately desire coming off as a pompous ditz even on internet sites such as this.
Click to expand...


----------



## Socio

Kondor3 said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._You are the one who is pathological. Pathologically so full of hatred you cannot see reason._"
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Actually, he has a point.
> 
> *Islam is incompatible with Western Culture, in the final analysis.*
> 
> The sooner we admit that to ourselves, the safer and happier we will be.
> 
> I really and truly wish that this was not the case.
> 
> But it is, what it is.
> 
> No point wandering-about this life with a pair of touchy-feely blinkers on.
> 
> With instantaneous communications and high speed travel, the world has become far too dangerous a place to hide our heads in the sand and pretend those dangers do not exist.
> 
> Because they do.
> 
> That is not xenophobia.
> 
> That is simple truth.
Click to expand...


I agree, unlike any other religion Islam has three arms, Religious, Military, and Political that are inseparable, under it there can be no separation of Church & State making it incompatible with the Wests definition of a religion.

Perhaps the right step would be to no longer classify it a religion thereby denying it the rights and privileges afforded a religion. 

Cut of one arm the other two will go limp.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

Meathead said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have completely missed the point of my post.
> 
> However, if you want to suggest that the Vietnamese have a grievance against the US for bombing them and killing thousands upon thousands of innocent civilians, let's take that point and look at it in regards to Muslims.  American has done that and continues to do that now, in the present.  They are called, as they were in Vietnam, "collateral damage."  The Boston Marathon bomber called those killed "collateral damage."  I am IN NO WAY
> 
> 
> 
> Your point was rationalizing the deliberate targeting of people by medieval people with medieval minds not as collateral damage, but brought about as a result of perceived historical injustices. My point was that those who seek to improve their lives and not dwell on perverse interpretations of history may do so successfully as the Vietnamese are doing today.
> 
> The damage done to the Muslim world is largely self-inflicted and it will continue to be so until they can come to terms with their own role in the catastrophe of so much of their own religion and culture. Wherever Islam borders with other religions in today's world, spanning from the Philippines to Nigeria and Central Asia to Kenya, violence and intolerance are the order of the day.
> 
> If it were confined to that huge swath, that would not be of immediate concern to the rest of the world. However, in the name of multiculturalism, significant Muslim population now find themselves embedded in the west and with them have brought a disturbing and suicidal mindset. They should not be given to chance to parasitically infect the far more progressed civilizations in which they have settled. Sweden is an excellent example.
> 
> The damage in their case, and I suspect yours, is not "collateral"; rather pathological.
Click to expand...


Paranoid, ignorant, bigoted, nonsense.  

It is a fundamental fallacy to assume that because a given terrorist is incidentally Muslim that he is representative of all Muslims or Islam as a whole; or that indeed all Muslims condone the criminal acts of terrorists who falsely claim to be acting in accordance with their faith.  

And how exactly do you propose that Muslims not be given to chance to parasitically infect the far more progressed civilizations in which they have settled without violating the tenets of due process and the rule of law, particularly in the United States where all persons are guaranteed their due process and equal protection rights as mandated by 14th Amendment jurisprudence. 

Your advocacy that Muslims be subject to punitive measures absent evidence of criminal wrongdoing is offensive to the Constitution, and will bring far greater harm to the Republic than any terrorist.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

Socio said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._You are the one who is pathological. Pathologically so full of hatred you cannot see reason._"
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Actually, he has a point.
> 
> *Islam is incompatible with Western Culture, in the final analysis.*
> 
> The sooner we admit that to ourselves, the safer and happier we will be.
> 
> I really and truly wish that this was not the case.
> 
> But it is, what it is.
> 
> No point wandering-about this life with a pair of touchy-feely blinkers on.
> 
> With instantaneous communications and high speed travel, the world has become far too dangerous a place to hide our heads in the sand and pretend those dangers do not exist.
> 
> Because they do.
> 
> That is not xenophobia.
> 
> That is simple truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree, unlike any other religion Islam has three arms, Religious, Military, and Political that are inseparable, under it there can be no separation of Church & State making it incompatible with the Wests definition of a religion.
> 
> Perhaps the right step would be to no longer classify it a religion thereby denying it the rights and privileges afforded a religion.
> 
> Cut of one arm the other two will go limp.
Click to expand...


And yet more paranoid, ignorant, bigoted, nonsense.

How exactly would you go about declassifying Islam as a religion no longer subject to First Amendment protections. Would you then move forward to pass legislation making the practicing of Islam illegal. What would be the penalty for the crime of being Muslim. 

Again, what you and others of your ilk are advocating is the true terrorism.


----------



## Meathead

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Paranoid, ignorant, bigoted, nonsense.
> 
> It is a fundamental fallacy to assume that because a given terrorist is incidentally Muslim that he is representative of all Muslims or Islam as a whole; or that indeed all Muslims condone the criminal acts of terrorists who falsely claim to be acting in accordance with their faith.


I got through your preface because it was brief , but I've got to call you on the abject idiocy of the rest of your post. USMB may bit be "cerebral center', still, surely our expectations should not be so low.


----------



## Beachboy

ABikerSailor said:


> Hey BitchyBoi...................what about all the murdering Christians who blew up abortion clinics and shot doctors in their own churches?



Good point.  While those who blew up abortion clinics should pay the price in the American legal system, these nut jobs ARE STILL AMERICAN CITIZENS, and have rights.  Now, I believe in a woman's right to choose.  

Just considering 9-11 alone 2,977 people were killed.  All kinds of people at RANDOM.  Some were not Americans, most had done nothing offensive to Muslims to receive their death warrant.  Deaths of abortion doctors were for a SPECIFIC REASON, and do not come any where near 2,977.  So, there is a question of magnitude of the carnage.  Foreign Muslims were given an opportunity in America, and seem to have forgotten they are here to LEARN, not TEACH!

I would be interested to see if you could find a link on how many abortion doctors were killed by fanatical extemeists.  My guess it under two dozen.  Can you provide a link to back up your point?







I guess I would define those who murdered abortion doctors to be "murderers," whereas the 9-11 perps were "terrorists."​


----------



## Beachboy

beagle9 said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only perspective I know, is what is happening right now, and not what has happened in the past in which has already been dealt with, nor what had happened in the stone ages either, but what has been happening recently or right now. Got it ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If the Party could thrust its hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened-that, surely, was more terrifying than mere torture and death?...But where did that knowledge exist? Only in his consciousness, which in any case must soon be annihilated...'Who controls the past,' ran the Party slogan,'controls the future:who controls the present controls the past.'...All that was needed was a series of victories over your own memory.
> &#8213; George Orwell, 1984
> 
> What Orwell means is that the 'party,' the totalitarian government in the novel 1984, controls knowledge and awareness of past events, eliminating from the collective memory any events they don't want the current populace to think about.  That way, they can control people better.  Fortunately, neither you nor your sort have control over the past.  We must remember the past so we can live in the present with clarity of mind, with knowledge, with wisdom and vison, so we can understand the present and put events in the here and now into perspective.  Shutting out from memory or meaning events of the past allows YOU to control how you see the present, but others who are wiser and more circumspect realize that past events influence and shape the present and the future as well as giving us a broader vision of the human experience and the human condition.
> 
> Those of us who accept the past as a part of ourselves and our human commonality realize that the terrorism we see today is the same type of behavior that has been visited upon others by those we consider our people, our antecedents.  We realize that all of humanity has done heinous things, that such things are not limited to any one culture, ethnic group, religion, nationality , gender, etc.  You can pretend all you want that the past does not matter, but it does. Fortunately, not all people believe as you do, hopefully, not most.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It all depends on how the past is utilized or is being used in context there of, and you know this, but you try and wiggle this away, and wiggle that away in order to make some other big mess of words as so to spin your way around and around or possibly out of this hole you keep digging for yourself, but I see through it all. You are using the past wrongfully (imho), and that is just my opinion of you and your words here. I could understand you referring to the past for an antidote maybe or a judgment maybe in order to get to a final verdict on the acts of those whom are guilty in the current, but you are using the past politically inorder to empower an agenda in which leaves us vulnerable, and that is just wrong or rather a wrongful usage of it.
Click to expand...


You are so far off-base, I would not even know where to begin my remarks.







But, a picture is worth a thousand words!​


----------



## Beachboy

Esmeralda said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the Party could thrust its hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened-that, surely, was more terrifying than mere torture and death?...But where did that knowledge exist? Only in his consciousness, which in any case must soon be annihilated...'Who controls the past,' ran the Party slogan,'controls the future:who controls the present controls the past.'...All that was needed was a series of victories over your own memory.
> &#8213; George Orwell, 1984
> 
> What Orwell means is that the 'party,' the totalitarian government in the novel 1984, controls knowledge and awareness of past events, eliminating from the collective memory any events they don't want the current populace to think about.  That way, they can control people better.  Fortunately, neither you nor your sort have control over the past.  We must remember the past so we can live in the present with clarity of mind, with knowledge, with wisdom and vison, so we can understand the present and put events in the here and now into perspective.  Shutting out from memory or meaning events of the past allows YOU to control how you see the present, but others who are wiser and more circumspect realize that past events influence and shape the present and the future as well as giving us a broader vision of the human experience and the human condition.
> 
> Those of us who accept the past as a part of ourselves and our human commonality realize that the terrorism we see today is the same type of behavior that has been visited upon others by those we consider our people, our antecedents.  We realize that all of humanity has done heinous things, that such things are not limited to any one culture, ethnic group, religion, nationality , gender, etc.  You can pretend all you want that the past does not matter, but it does. Fortunately, not all people believe as you do, hopefully, not most.
> 
> 
> 
> It all depends on how the past is utilized or is being used in context there of, and you know this, but you try and wiggle this away, and wiggle that away in order to make some other big mess of words as so to spin your way around and around or possibly out of this hole you keep digging for yourself, but I see through it all. You are using the past wrongfully (imho), and that is just my opinion of you and your words here. I could understand you referring to the past for an antidote maybe or a judgment maybe in order to get to a final verdict on the acts of those whom are guilty in the current, but you are using the past politically inorder to empower an agenda in which leaves us vulnerable, and that is just wrong or rather a wrongful usage of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I am not 'using' the past. And it isn't about politics; it is about awareness of the human experience.  But I see you don't want to be aware.  I see you want only to believe what you want to believe, which is seeing things in simplistic terms and that the here and now is somehow lived in a vacuum that has nothing to do with the past.  You say you "see through it all," but you don't see anything, you see a "wall of words,' as you put it, because, apparently, my post is too complex for you to understand.  It isn't a wall of words or a big mess; in fact, it is quite simply and directly expressed.
Click to expand...


I disagree.  It is all about the past.  Muslims hold America responsible for the dictatorships in middle east and north African countries.  It is all about the politics of oil.  The United States would not give a damn about that region IF WE WERE NOT TRYING TO BUY OIL.  Our efforts to buy oil have gotten America sucked into a whole bunch of Muslim problems we NEVER had an interest in.

"Awareness of the human experience" sounds like bull shit to me.  The U. S. military, and American business run on oil.  We have to have it.  We are willing to pay for it, and the problem is the Muslim leadership that Muslims people have allowed to run their societies.  Things go badly for a dictator, and the solution is to blame America.  

Stop reading the ideaology of Khalil Gibran and start reading The Almanac of American History by Arthur Schlesinger, Jr.






...........
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




We live in a jungle of hard-ball, not fantasy fiction.
You bring nothing viable to the table.​


----------



## Beachboy

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have completely missed the point of my post.
> 
> However, if you want to suggest that the Vietnamese have a grievance against the US for bombing them and killing thousands upon thousands of innocent civilians, let's take that point and look at it in regards to Muslims.  American has done that and continues to do that now, in the present.  They are called, as they were in Vietnam, "collateral damage."  The Boston Marathon bomber called those killed "collateral damage."  I am IN NO WAY
> 
> 
> 
> Your point was rationalizing the deliberate targeting of people by medieval people with medieval minds not as collateral damage, but brought about as a result of perceived historical injustices. My point was that those who seek to improve their lives and not dwell on perverse interpretations of history may do so successfully as the Vietnamese are doing today.
> 
> The damage done to the Muslim world is largely self-inflicted and it will continue to be so until they can come to terms with their own role in the catastrophe of so much of their own religion and culture. Wherever Islam borders with other religions in today's world, spanning from the Philippines to Nigeria and Central Asia to Kenya, violence and intolerance are the order of the day.
> 
> If it were confined to that huge swath, that would not be of immediate concern to the rest of the world. However, in the name of multiculturalism, significant Muslim population now find themselves embedded in the west and with them have brought a disturbing and suicidal mindset. They should not be given to chance to parasitically infect the far more progressed civilizations in which they have settled. Sweden is an excellent example.
> 
> The damage in their case, and I suspect yours, is not "collateral"; rather pathological.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Paranoid, ignorant, bigoted, nonsense.
> 
> It is a fundamental fallacy to assume that because a given terrorist is incidentally Muslim that he is representative of all Muslims or Islam as a whole; or that indeed all Muslims condone the criminal acts of terrorists who falsely claim to be acting in accordance with their faith.
> 
> And how exactly do you propose that Muslims not be given to chance to parasitically infect the far more progressed civilizations in which they have settled without violating the tenets of due process and the rule of law, particularly in the United States where all persons are guaranteed their due process and equal protection rights as mandated by 14th Amendment jurisprudence.
> 
> Your advocacy that Muslims be subject to punitive measures absent evidence of criminal wrongdoing is offensive to the Constitution, and will bring far greater harm to the Republic than any terrorist.
Click to expand...


What planet are you on?

In high school my parents were often out of town on weekends.  I would throw parties.  Apparently, they were pretty good parties because I ended up Vice-President of the senior class.

When you open your house up, you learn several things;

1).  There are the beer mooches who never contribute, but drink plenty.
2).  There are the teen women who clean the house, and keep order.
3).  There are the troublemakers who usually break something.
4).  There are guys who are loyal to you forever because they finally get laid.

It only takes a few parties to figure out who falls into what group.  Then you begin to eliminate the invitations to mooches and troublemakers, and reward the cleaners and guys who appreciate your efforts.  It is the same with Muslims.  

Consider the the United States like your home.  It does not take long to figure out who should not be invited to the party!






A successful party, like a country, is all about controlling the guest list.​


----------



## Esmeralda

Beachboy said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It all depends on how the past is utilized or is being used in context there of, and you know this, but you try and wiggle this away, and wiggle that away in order to make some other big mess of words as so to spin your way around and around or possibly out of this hole you keep digging for yourself, but I see through it all. You are using the past wrongfully (imho), and that is just my opinion of you and your words here. I could understand you referring to the past for an antidote maybe or a judgment maybe in order to get to a final verdict on the acts of those whom are guilty in the current, but you are using the past politically inorder to empower an agenda in which leaves us vulnerable, and that is just wrong or rather a wrongful usage of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I am not 'using' the past. And it isn't about politics; it is about awareness of the human experience.  But I see you don't want to be aware.  I see you want only to believe what you want to believe, which is seeing things in simplistic terms and that the here and now is somehow lived in a vacuum that has nothing to do with the past.  You say you "see through it all," but you don't see anything, you see a "wall of words,' as you put it, because, apparently, my post is too complex for you to understand.  It isn't a wall of words or a big mess; in fact, it is quite simply and directly expressed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree.  It is all about the past.  Muslims hold America responsible for the dictatorships in middle east and north African countries.  It is all about the politics of oil.  The United States would not give a damn about that region IF WE WERE NOT TRYING TO BUY OIL.  Our efforts to buy oil have gotten America sucked into a whole bunch of Muslim problems we NEVER had an interest in.
> 
> "Awareness of the human experience" sounds like bull shit to me.  The U. S. military, and American business run on oil.  We have to have it.  We are willing to pay for it, and the problem is the Muslim leadership that Muslims people have allowed to run their societies.  Things go badly for a dictator, and the solution is to blame America.
> 
> Stop reading the ideaology of Khalil Gibran and start reading The Almanac of American History by Arthur Schlesinger, Jr.We live in a jungle of hard-ball, not fantasy fiction.
> You bring nothing viable to the table.
> [/CENTER]
Click to expand...


I have never read Gibran.  I read such people as Orwell, authors whose ideas are highly valued among intelligent, thinking people. I suspose my having 'nothing viable' to add or being a 'ditz' are both statements coming from nimno idiotic male chauvanists.  Insults to a woman; it's extremely ironic, idiots like the two of you telling me I don't have the brain power to discuss something with you.Very amusing.  

Sorry you find my language pompous; it's just a bit more sophisticated than what you use.  I do agree that the US is interested in oil in the ME. They are also interested in placing themselves in the ME strategically as a world power.  I have lived in 3 Muslim countries, two in the ME, for a total of six years.  I have worked closely on a daily basis with Muslims, and some became good friends.  They are not resentful of past imperialism.  The extremists and terrorists are hostile due to the Palestinian issue and due to the military actiions in the ME, such as Iraq and Afghanistan.  These people are terrorists, however. There are plenty of people who do not agree with US policy here, and plenty who do not agree with Israel's position and actions either. However, they do not believe in terrorism. The vast, vast majority do not agree with, believe in or support terrorism. That is the bottom line.  

In addition, if you research statistics in the US as far as violence by Muslims against others and others against Muslims, you would find that it is non-Muslims perpetrating the most violence against Muslims, not the other way around.

Historical significance, which was my point and connected to the allusion from 1984, has to do with putting things into perspective historically.  It is a simple point.  We cannot forget history if we are to deal intelligently with the present and future.  Obviously none of you have read or if you have, did not understand, the passage from 1984.  I did explain, but your willful desire to be ignorant, to ignore my points because you simply don't want to think about them, has made it so you missed the point of the post.  

I am not using the past to justify anything, a point which I made clear in another post. There  is a fundamental difference between justifying behavior and understanding it.  Again, somehing which is either beyond your  mental capacity, or which you choose to ignore.


----------



## Beachboy

Esmeralda said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I am not 'using' the past. And it isn't about politics; it is about awareness of the human experience.  But I see you don't want to be aware.  I see you want only to believe what you want to believe, which is seeing things in simplistic terms and that the here and now is somehow lived in a vacuum that has nothing to do with the past.  You say you "see through it all," but you don't see anything, you see a "wall of words,' as you put it, because, apparently, my post is too complex for you to understand.  It isn't a wall of words or a big mess; in fact, it is quite simply and directly expressed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree.  It is all about the past.  Muslims hold America responsible for the dictatorships in middle east and north African countries.  It is all about the politics of oil.  The United States would not give a damn about that region IF WE WERE NOT TRYING TO BUY OIL.  Our efforts to buy oil have gotten America sucked into a whole bunch of Muslim problems we NEVER had an interest in.
> 
> "Awareness of the human experience" sounds like bull shit to me.  The U. S. military, and American business run on oil.  We have to have it.  We are willing to pay for it, and the problem is the Muslim leadership that Muslims people have allowed to run their societies.  Things go badly for a dictator, and the solution is to blame America.
> 
> Stop reading the ideaology of Khalil Gibran and start reading The Almanac of American History by Arthur Schlesinger, Jr.We live in a jungle of hard-ball, not fantasy fiction.
> You bring nothing viable to the table.
> [/CENTER]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have never read Gibran.  I read such people as Orwell, authors whose ideas are highly valued among intelligent, thinking people. I suspose my having 'nothing viable' to add or being a 'ditz' are both statements coming from nimno idiotic male chauvanists.  Insults to a woman; it's extremely ironic, idiots like the two of you telling me I don't have the brain power to discuss something with you.Very amusing.
> 
> Sorry you find my language pompous; it's just a bit more sophisticated than what you use.  I do agree that the US is interested in oil in the ME. They are also interested in placing themselves in the ME strategically as a world power.  I have lived in 3 Muslim countries, two in the ME, for a total of six years.  I have worked closely on a daily basis with Muslims, and some became good friends.  They are not resentful of past imperialism.  The extremists and terrorists are hostile due to the Palestinian issue and due to the military actiions in the ME, such as Iraq and Afghanistan.  These people are terrorists, however. There are plenty of people who do not agree with US policy here, and plenty who do not agree with Israel's position and actions either. However, they do not believe in terrorism. The vast, vast majority do not agree with, believe in or support terrorism. That is the bottom line.
> 
> In addition, if you research statistics in the US as far as violence by Muslims against others and others against Muslims, you would find that it is non-Muslims perpetrating the most violence against Muslims, not the other way around.
> 
> Historical significance, which was my point and connected to the allusion from 1984, has to do with putting things into perspective historically.  It is a simple point.  We cannot forget history if we are to deal intelligently with the present and future.  Obviously none of you have read or if you have, did not understand, the passage from 1984.  I did explain, but your willful desire to be ignorant, to ignore my points because you simply don't want to think about them, has made it so you missed the point of the post.
> 
> I am not using the past to justify anything, a point which I made clear in another post. There  is a fundamental difference between justifying behavior and understanding it.  Again, somehing which is either beyond your  mental capacity, or which you choose to ignore.
Click to expand...


Gilbran is hogwash, but some years ago it was the "in" mantra of the left.  A fad, a craze, soon to be replaced by some else with an unpronounceable name.  In essence you have missed the point.  I am saying that ideology is what gets political people in trouble while trying to find workable solutions to problems.  Solid problem solving in the hard-ball real world is what is needed.  The concept of "Everything for everyone" does not work on a planet with limited resources.  We have a natural food chain with some on the top, and others at the bottom.  While it can be improved, it can not be changed.  You will not be of any help until you learn to build within the system.

To be more direct.  Your pontification helps no one.  Read some world history and get back to me.






World history is the story of survival of the fittest.  It is a jungle out there, accept it, and develop a plan.​


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree.  It is all about the past.  Muslims hold America responsible for the dictatorships in middle east and north African countries.  It is all about the politics of oil.  The United States would not give a damn about that region IF WE WERE NOT TRYING TO BUY OIL.  Our efforts to buy oil have gotten America sucked into a whole bunch of Muslim problems we NEVER had an interest in.
> 
> "Awareness of the human experience" sounds like bull shit to me.  The U. S. military, and American business run on oil.  We have to have it.  We are willing to pay for it, and the problem is the Muslim leadership that Muslims people have allowed to run their societies.  Things go badly for a dictator, and the solution is to blame America.
> 
> Stop reading the ideaology of Khalil Gibran and start reading The Almanac of American History by Arthur Schlesinger, Jr.We live in a jungle of hard-ball, not fantasy fiction.
> You bring nothing viable to the table.
> [/CENTER]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have never read Gibran.  I read such people as Orwell, authors whose ideas are highly valued among intelligent, thinking people. I suspose my having 'nothing viable' to add or being a 'ditz' are both statements coming from nimno idiotic male chauvanists.  Insults to a woman; it's extremely ironic, idiots like the two of you telling me I don't have the brain power to discuss something with you.Very amusing.
> 
> Sorry you find my language pompous; it's just a bit more sophisticated than what you use.  I do agree that the US is interested in oil in the ME. They are also interested in placing themselves in the ME strategically as a world power.  I have lived in 3 Muslim countries, two in the ME, for a total of six years.  I have worked closely on a daily basis with Muslims, and some became good friends.  They are not resentful of past imperialism.  The extremists and terrorists are hostile due to the Palestinian issue and due to the military actiions in the ME, such as Iraq and Afghanistan.  These people are terrorists, however. There are plenty of people who do not agree with US policy here, and plenty who do not agree with Israel's position and actions either. However, they do not believe in terrorism. The vast, vast majority do not agree with, believe in or support terrorism. That is the bottom line.
> 
> In addition, if you research statistics in the US as far as violence by Muslims against others and others against Muslims, you would find that it is non-Muslims perpetrating the most violence against Muslims, not the other way around.
> 
> Historical significance, which was my point and connected to the allusion from 1984, has to do with putting things into perspective historically.  It is a simple point.  We cannot forget history if we are to deal intelligently with the present and future.  Obviously none of you have read or if you have, did not understand, the passage from 1984.  I did explain, but your willful desire to be ignorant, to ignore my points because you simply don't want to think about them, has made it so you missed the point of the post.
> 
> I am not using the past to justify anything, a point which I made clear in another post. There  is a fundamental difference between justifying behavior and understanding it.  Again, somehing which is either beyond your  mental capacity, or which you choose to ignore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gilbran is hogwash, but some years ago it was the "in" mantra of the left.  A fad, a craze, soon to be replaced by some else with an unpronounceable name.  In essence you have missed the point.  I am saying that ideology is what gets political people in trouble while trying to find workable solutions to problems.  Solid problem solving in the hard-ball real world is what is needed.  The concept of "Everything for everyone" does not work on a planet with limited resources.  We have a natural food chain with some on the top, and others at the bottom.  While it can be improved, it can not be changed.  You will not be of any help until you learn to build within the system.
> 
> To be more direct.  Your pontification helps no one.  Read some world history and get back to me.
> 
> 
> 
> World history is the story of survival of the fittest.  It is a jungle out there, accept it, and develop a plan.​
Click to expand...


Gibran was a artist, you flaming ignorant knuckledragger.  Your "fad" is the third most published poet of all time after Lao Tzu and William Shakespeare.  And a Christian, so he doesn't fit your fantasy anyway.  What's your lack of point?


----------



## beagle9

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have completely missed the point of my post.
> 
> However, if you want to suggest that the Vietnamese have a grievance against the US for bombing them and killing thousands upon thousands of innocent civilians, let's take that point and look at it in regards to Muslims.  American has done that and continues to do that now, in the present.  They are called, as they were in Vietnam, "collateral damage."  The Boston Marathon bomber called those killed "collateral damage."  I am IN NO WAY
> 
> 
> 
> Your point was rationalizing the deliberate targeting of people by medieval people with medieval minds not as collateral damage, but brought about as a result of perceived historical injustices. My point was that those who seek to improve their lives and not dwell on perverse interpretations of history may do so successfully as the Vietnamese are doing today.
> 
> The damage done to the Muslim world is largely self-inflicted and it will continue to be so until they can come to terms with their own role in the catastrophe of so much of their own religion and culture. Wherever Islam borders with other religions in today's world, spanning from the Philippines to Nigeria and Central Asia to Kenya, violence and intolerance are the order of the day.
> 
> If it were confined to that huge swath, that would not be of immediate concern to the rest of the world. However, in the name of multiculturalism, significant Muslim population now find themselves embedded in the west and with them have brought a disturbing and suicidal mindset. They should not be given to chance to parasitically infect the far more progressed civilizations in which they have settled. Sweden is an excellent example.
> 
> The damage in their case, and I suspect yours, is not "collateral"; rather pathological.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Paranoid, ignorant, bigoted, nonsense.
> 
> It is a fundamental fallacy to assume that because a given terrorist is incidentally Muslim that he is representative of all Muslims or Islam as a whole; or that indeed all Muslims condone the criminal acts of terrorists who falsely claim to be acting in accordance with their faith.
> 
> And how exactly do you propose that Muslims not be given to chance to parasitically infect the far more progressed civilizations in which they have settled without violating the tenets of due process and the rule of law, particularly in the United States where all persons are guaranteed their due process and equal protection rights as mandated by 14th Amendment jurisprudence.
> 
> Your advocacy that Muslims be subject to punitive measures absent evidence of criminal wrongdoing is offensive to the Constitution, and will bring far greater harm to the Republic than any terrorist.
Click to expand...

And yet another one who ignores the reality of the situation again, and yet again...Hasan was one of the worse types to commit an act of terror/violence in this nation, for whom was found killing Americans under this Islam chanting crowd of terrorist murderors in which we have been encountering in the world. Why was he so bad ? It's because he had gotten himself on the inside, in which is where no one suspected him, then he unleashed his fury on the unsuspected innocents. This is their M.O. where as they befriend or get others to help befriend all of us whom they hate, then they position themselves for maximum damage from within. Was watching the Vietnam conflict on NatGeo today, and I couldn't help but sit back and maybe draw a conclusion that the libs caused us to lose that war for those poor souls in that nation, infact they may be signatured in many situations that we have encountered, and this all due their weak backbones or spines they seem to have. If not, then the government done a good job of casting blame on them for much of our losses looking back to the vietnam conflict and now beyond that into what is taking place in this nation to date.


----------



## beagle9

Esmeralda said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I am not 'using' the past. And it isn't about politics; it is about awareness of the human experience.  But I see you don't want to be aware.  I see you want only to believe what you want to believe, which is seeing things in simplistic terms and that the here and now is somehow lived in a vacuum that has nothing to do with the past.  You say you "see through it all," but you don't see anything, you see a "wall of words,' as you put it, because, apparently, my post is too complex for you to understand.  It isn't a wall of words or a big mess; in fact, it is quite simply and directly expressed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree.  It is all about the past.  Muslims hold America responsible for the dictatorships in middle east and north African countries.  It is all about the politics of oil.  The United States would not give a damn about that region IF WE WERE NOT TRYING TO BUY OIL.  Our efforts to buy oil have gotten America sucked into a whole bunch of Muslim problems we NEVER had an interest in.
> 
> "Awareness of the human experience" sounds like bull shit to me.  The U. S. military, and American business run on oil.  We have to have it.  We are willing to pay for it, and the problem is the Muslim leadership that Muslims people have allowed to run their societies.  Things go badly for a dictator, and the solution is to blame America.
> 
> Stop reading the ideaology of Khalil Gibran and start reading The Almanac of American History by Arthur Schlesinger, Jr.We live in a jungle of hard-ball, not fantasy fiction.
> You bring nothing viable to the table.
> [/CENTER]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have never read Gibran.  I read such people as Orwell, authors whose ideas are highly valued among intelligent, thinking people. I suspose my having 'nothing viable' to add or being a 'ditz' are both statements coming from nimno idiotic male chauvanists.  Insults to a woman; it's extremely ironic, idiots like the two of you telling me I don't have the brain power to discuss something with you.Very amusing.
> 
> Sorry you find my language pompous; it's just a bit more sophisticated than what you use.  I do agree that the US is interested in oil in the ME. They are also interested in placing themselves in the ME strategically as a world power.  I have lived in 3 Muslim countries, two in the ME, for a total of six years.  I have worked closely on a daily basis with Muslims, and some became good friends.  They are not resentful of past imperialism.  The extremists and terrorists are hostile due to the Palestinian issue and due to the military actiions in the ME, such as Iraq and Afghanistan.  These people are terrorists, however. There are plenty of people who do not agree with US policy here, and plenty who do not agree with Israel's position and actions either. However, they do not believe in terrorism. The vast, vast majority do not agree with, believe in or support terrorism. That is the bottom line.
> 
> In addition, if you research statistics in the US as far as violence by Muslims against others and others against Muslims, you would find that it is non-Muslims perpetrating the most violence against Muslims, not the other way around.
> 
> Historical significance, which was my point and connected to the allusion from 1984, has to do with putting things into perspective historically.  It is a simple point.  We cannot forget history if we are to deal intelligently with the present and future.  Obviously none of you have read or if you have, did not understand, the passage from 1984.  I did explain, but your willful desire to be ignorant, to ignore my points because you simply don't want to think about them, has made it so you missed the point of the post.
> 
> I am not using the past to justify anything, a point which I made clear in another post. There  is a fundamental difference between justifying behavior and understanding it.  Again, somehing which is either beyond your  mental capacity, or which you choose to ignore.
Click to expand...

Question then, lets say if I were to go over to your house, and I was to try and do business with you, and you wanted to do business with me, but your followers outside hated that you did business with me, so they want you to be removed as their leader or worse they want you dead, and they also now want me dead to (the visitor), but you are the leader and rebuke their wanting this, so they start killing all around you as a message onto you, but they donot kill you as of yet, so next you ask for help in this struggle, and so we help you and your supporters along with your house staff because we believe in you and your people. Next we find ourselves killing and fighting some tough fights out in the yards outside the house, and this in order to keep the house safe, but in this action it angers more and more of those whom have rose up against the dealings between the leader of the house, and also the visitor whom has come to the house on business, and on good measure this day.

Ok now we have come back home, and there are some whom want to come here to, and we think well in tradition there of, and because anyone whom wants to be free then we are all for them, so lets let them in these people, now (open the gates), and in comes the TROJAN HORSE right ? Is this a good thing that America seems to be using no good common sense on these days ?

Lord let thine enemy be thy stranger, in which I can see him coming for me, and not my brother in which I cannot see him coming for me.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Beachboy said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree.  It is all about the past.  Muslims hold America responsible for the dictatorships in middle east and north African countries.  It is all about the politics of oil.  The United States would not give a damn about that region IF WE WERE NOT TRYING TO BUY OIL.  Our efforts to buy oil have gotten America sucked into a whole bunch of Muslim problems we NEVER had an interest in.
> 
> "Awareness of the human experience" sounds like bull shit to me.  The U. S. military, and American business run on oil.  We have to have it.  We are willing to pay for it, and the problem is the Muslim leadership that Muslims people have allowed to run their societies.  Things go badly for a dictator, and the solution is to blame America.
> 
> Stop reading the ideaology of Khalil Gibran and start reading The Almanac of American History by Arthur Schlesinger, Jr.We live in a jungle of hard-ball, not fantasy fiction.
> You bring nothing viable to the table.
> [/CENTER]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have never read Gibran.  I read such people as Orwell, authors whose ideas are highly valued among intelligent, thinking people. I suspose my having 'nothing viable' to add or being a 'ditz' are both statements coming from nimno idiotic male chauvanists.  Insults to a woman; it's extremely ironic, idiots like the two of you telling me I don't have the brain power to discuss something with you.Very amusing.
> 
> Sorry you find my language pompous; it's just a bit more sophisticated than what you use.  I do agree that the US is interested in oil in the ME. They are also interested in placing themselves in the ME strategically as a world power.  I have lived in 3 Muslim countries, two in the ME, for a total of six years.  I have worked closely on a daily basis with Muslims, and some became good friends.  They are not resentful of past imperialism.  The extremists and terrorists are hostile due to the Palestinian issue and due to the military actiions in the ME, such as Iraq and Afghanistan.  These people are terrorists, however. There are plenty of people who do not agree with US policy here, and plenty who do not agree with Israel's position and actions either. However, they do not believe in terrorism. The vast, vast majority do not agree with, believe in or support terrorism. That is the bottom line.
> 
> In addition, if you research statistics in the US as far as violence by Muslims against others and others against Muslims, you would find that it is non-Muslims perpetrating the most violence against Muslims, not the other way around.
> 
> Historical significance, which was my point and connected to the allusion from 1984, has to do with putting things into perspective historically.  It is a simple point.  We cannot forget history if we are to deal intelligently with the present and future.  Obviously none of you have read or if you have, did not understand, the passage from 1984.  I did explain, but your willful desire to be ignorant, to ignore my points because you simply don't want to think about them, has made it so you missed the point of the post.
> 
> I am not using the past to justify anything, a point which I made clear in another post. There  is a fundamental difference between justifying behavior and understanding it.  Again, somehing which is either beyond your  mental capacity, or which you choose to ignore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gilbran is hogwash, but some years ago it was the "in" mantra of the left.  A fad, a craze, soon to be replaced by some else with an unpronounceable name.  In essence you have missed the point.  I am saying that ideology is what gets political people in trouble while trying to find workable solutions to problems.  Solid problem solving in the hard-ball real world is what is needed.  The concept of "Everything for everyone" does not work on a planet with limited resources.  We have a natural food chain with some on the top, and others at the bottom.  While it can be improved, it can not be changed.  You will not be of any help until you learn to build within the system.
> 
> To be more direct.  Your pontification helps no one.  Read some world history and get back to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> World history is the story of survival of the fittest.  It is a jungle out there, accept it, and develop a plan.​
Click to expand...


So...............lemmie get this straight BitchBoi.................you've never read Gilbran, yet you seem to think you know what he's all about because you heard some kind of talking point in your little circle of how it's a "left mantra".

The Prophet is actually a pretty decent book, I've actually read it, and a lot of the philosophy is quite peaceful, and the story is pretty decent.

As far as it being a passing fad of the left?  Might wanna check again..............



> Synopsis [edit]
> 
> The prophet, Almustafa, has lived in the foreign city of Orphalese for 12 years and is about to board a ship which will carry him home. He is stopped by a group of people, with whom he discusses topics such as life and the human condition. The book is divided into chapters dealing with love, marriage, children, giving, eating and drinking, work, joy and sorrow, houses, clothes, buying and selling, crime and punishment, laws, freedom, reason and passion, pain, self-knowledge, teaching, friendship, talking, time, good and evil, prayer, pleasure, beauty, religion, and death.
> 
> Popularity [edit]
> 
> Research on sales figures is difficult to come by, but Khalil Gibran is a very widely read poet in modern history, having been translated into well over 40 languages.[4] The Prophet is in its 163rd printing and has sold over 100 million copies[citation needed] since its original publication in 1923.[4] The Prophet is consistently in the best selling category (overall) at Amazon.[5] The Prophet is one of the best-selling books of all time.[citation needed]
> 
> Of a rather ambitious first printing of 2,000 in 1923, Knopf sold 1,159 copies. The demand for The Prophet doubled the following year  and doubled again the year after that. Since then, annual sales have risen steadily: from 12,000 in 1935 to 111,000 in 1961 to 240,000 in 1965. Worldwide, The Prophet sells more than 5000 copies a week.[6]



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prophet_(book)


----------



## Beachboy

ABikerSailor said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have never read Gibran.  I read such people as Orwell, authors whose ideas are highly valued among intelligent, thinking people. I suspose my having 'nothing viable' to add or being a 'ditz' are both statements coming from nimno idiotic male chauvanists.  Insults to a woman; it's extremely ironic, idiots like the two of you telling me I don't have the brain power to discuss something with you.Very amusing.
> 
> Sorry you find my language pompous; it's just a bit more sophisticated than what you use.  I do agree that the US is interested in oil in the ME. They are also interested in placing themselves in the ME strategically as a world power.  I have lived in 3 Muslim countries, two in the ME, for a total of six years.  I have worked closely on a daily basis with Muslims, and some became good friends.  They are not resentful of past imperialism.  The extremists and terrorists are hostile due to the Palestinian issue and due to the military actiions in the ME, such as Iraq and Afghanistan.  These people are terrorists, however. There are plenty of people who do not agree with US policy here, and plenty who do not agree with Israel's position and actions either. However, they do not believe in terrorism. The vast, vast majority do not agree with, believe in or support terrorism. That is the bottom lin
> , if you research statistics in the US as far as violence by Muslims against others and others against Muslims, you would find that it is non-Muslims perpetrating the most violence against Muslims, not the other way around.
> 
> Historical significance, which was my point and connected to the allusion from 1984, has to do with putting things into perspective historically.  It is a simple point.  We cannot forget history if we are to deal intelligently with the present and future.  Obviously none of you have read or if you have, did not understand, the passage from 1984.  I did explain, but your willful desire to be ignorant, to ignore my points because you simply don't want to think about them, has made it so you missed the point of the post.
> 
> I am not using the past to justify anything, a point which I made clear in another post. There  is a fundamental difference between justifying behavior and understanding it.  Again, somehing which is either beyond your  mental capacity, or which you choose to ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gilbran is hogwash, but some years ago it was the "in" mantra of the left.  A fad, a craze, soon to be replaced by some else with an unpronounceable name.  In essence you have missed the point.  I am saying that ideology is what gets political people in trouble while trying to find workable solutions to problems.  Solid problem solving in the hard-ball real world is what is needed.  The concept of "Everything for everyone" does not work on a planet with limited resources.  We have a natural food chain with some on the top, and others at the bottom.  While it can be improved, it can not be changed.  You will not be of any help until you learn to build within the system.
> 
> To be more direct.  Your pontification helps no one.  Read some world history and get back to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> World history is the story of survival of the fittest.  It is a jungle out there, accept it, and develop a plan.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So...............lemmie get this straight BitchBoi.................you've never read Gilbran, yet you seem to think you know what he's all about because you heard some kind of talking point in your little circle of how it's a "left mantra".
> 
> The Prophet is actually a pretty decent book, I've actually read it, and a lot of the philosophy is quite peaceful, and the story is pretty decent.
> 
> As far as it being a passing fad of the left?  Might wanna check again..............
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synopsis [edit]
> 
> The prophet, Almustafa, has lived in the foreign city of Orphalese for 12 years and is about to board a ship which will carry him home. He is stopped by a group of people, with whom he discusses topics such as life and the human condition. The book is divided into chapters dealing with love, marriage, children, giving, eating and drinking, work, joy and sorrow, houses, clothes, buying and selling, crime and punishment, laws, freedom, reason and passion, pain, self-knowledge, teaching, friendship, talking, time, good and evil, prayer, pleasure, beauty, religion, and death.
> 
> Popularity [edit]
> 
> Research on sales figures is difficult to come by, but Khalil Gibran is a very widely read poet in modern history, having been translated into well over 40 languages.[4] The Prophet is in its 163rd printing and has sold over 100 million copies[citation needed] since its original publication in 1923.[4] The Prophet is consistently in the best selling category (overall) at Amazon.[5] The Prophet is one of the best-selling books of all time.[citation needed]
> 
> Of a rather ambitious first printing of 2,000 in 1923, Knopf sold 1,159 copies. The demand for The Prophet doubled the following year &#8212; and doubled again the year after that. Since then, annual sales have risen steadily: from 12,000 in 1935 to 111,000 in 1961 to 240,000 in 1965. Worldwide, The Prophet sells more than 5000 copies a week.[6]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prophet_(book)
Click to expand...


And, another one misses the point.  I read 'The Profit' when I was a young liberal.  In fact I leafed through it the other day which is why I brought it into this thread.  

We live in a world of hard-ball politics.  We always have.  In the real world it is called "an eye for an eye."  It is now an everyday occurrence.  If you want the key to civilization read world history.  Save Gilbran for your casual fiction reading.

As an independent voter it is time for me to quote Winston Churchill, AGAIN.

*"If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain."





**http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill*​


----------



## ABikerSailor

Beachboy said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gilbran is hogwash, but some years ago it was the "in" mantra of the left.  A fad, a craze, soon to be replaced by some else with an unpronounceable name.  In essence you have missed the point.  I am saying that ideology is what gets political people in trouble while trying to find workable solutions to problems.  Solid problem solving in the hard-ball real world is what is needed.  The concept of "Everything for everyone" does not work on a planet with limited resources.  We have a natural food chain with some on the top, and others at the bottom.  While it can be improved, it can not be changed.  You will not be of any help until you learn to build within the system.
> 
> To be more direct.  Your pontification helps no one.  Read some world history and get back to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> World history is the story of survival of the fittest.  It is a jungle out there, accept it, and develop a plan.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So...............lemmie get this straight BitchBoi.................you've never read Gilbran, yet you seem to think you know what he's all about because you heard some kind of talking point in your little circle of how it's a "left mantra".
> 
> The Prophet is actually a pretty decent book, I've actually read it, and a lot of the philosophy is quite peaceful, and the story is pretty decent.
> 
> As far as it being a passing fad of the left?  Might wanna check again..............
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synopsis [edit]
> 
> The prophet, Almustafa, has lived in the foreign city of Orphalese for 12 years and is about to board a ship which will carry him home. He is stopped by a group of people, with whom he discusses topics such as life and the human condition. The book is divided into chapters dealing with love, marriage, children, giving, eating and drinking, work, joy and sorrow, houses, clothes, buying and selling, crime and punishment, laws, freedom, reason and passion, pain, self-knowledge, teaching, friendship, talking, time, good and evil, prayer, pleasure, beauty, religion, and death.
> 
> Popularity [edit]
> 
> Research on sales figures is difficult to come by, but Khalil Gibran is a very widely read poet in modern history, having been translated into well over 40 languages.[4] The Prophet is in its 163rd printing and has sold over 100 million copies[citation needed] since its original publication in 1923.[4] The Prophet is consistently in the best selling category (overall) at Amazon.[5] The Prophet is one of the best-selling books of all time.[citation needed]
> 
> Of a rather ambitious first printing of 2,000 in 1923, Knopf sold 1,159 copies. The demand for The Prophet doubled the following year &#8212; and doubled again the year after that. Since then, annual sales have risen steadily: from 12,000 in 1935 to 111,000 in 1961 to 240,000 in 1965. Worldwide, The Prophet sells more than 5000 copies a week.[6]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prophet_(book)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And, another one misses the point.  I read 'The Profit' when I was a young liberal.  In fact I leafed through it the other day which is why I brought it into this thread.
> 
> We live in a world of hard-ball politics.  We always have.  In the real world it is called "an eye for an eye."  It is now an everyday occurrence.  If you want the key to civilization read world history.  Save Gilbran for your casual fiction reading.
> 
> Time for me to quote Winston Churchill, AGAIN.
Click to expand...


Might wanna check where the quote "an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth" comes from, as well as what the people (Jews) who wrote that quote actually meant by it.

An eye for an eye means that if you injure someone and incapacitate them from doing their work, you have to compensate them for not only the injury that you brought upon them, but, if say...............they used their eyes as part of their livelihood, you had an obligation to pay for the work that they have lost as a result of that injury.

It's not quite the bloodthirsty idea that you think it is.

And by the way.....................the title is "The PROPHET", not "The Profit".  I don't think his main reason for writing that book was to make money, as much as it was a statement on what Gilbran thought of the way people treated each other.  Might wanna look into him being considered a rebel by many of the Muslim world.


----------



## Beachboy

ABikerSailor said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...............lemmie get this straight BitchBoi.................you've never read Gilbran, yet you seem to think you know what he's all about because you heard some kind of talking point in your little circle of how it's a "left mantra".
> 
> The Prophet is actually a pretty decent book, I've actually read it, and a lot of the philosophy is quite peaceful, and the story is pretty decent.
> 
> As far as it being a passing fad of the left?  Might wanna check again..............
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prophet_(book)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, another one misses the point.  I read 'The Profit' when I was a young liberal.  In fact I leafed through it the other day which is why I brought it into this thread.
> 
> We live in a world of hard-ball politics.  We always have.  In the real world it is called "an eye for an eye."  It is now an everyday occurrence.  If you want the key to civilization read world history.  Save Gilbran for your casual fiction reading.
> 
> Time for me to quote Winston Churchill, AGAIN.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Might wanna check where the quote "an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth" comes from, as well as what the people (Jews) who wrote that quote actually meant by it.
> 
> An eye for an eye means that if you injure someone and incapacitate them from doing their work, you have to compensate them for not only the injury that you brought upon them, but, if say...............they used their eyes as part of their livelihood, you had an obligation to pay for the work that they have lost as a result of that injury.
> 
> It's not quite the bloodthirsty idea that you think it is.
> 
> And by the way.....................the title is "The PROPHET", not "The Profit".  I don't think his main reason for writing that book was to make money, as much as it was a statement on what Gilbran thought of the way people treated each other.  Might wanna look into him being considered a rebel by many of the Muslim world.
Click to expand...


The answer to you post on an "eye for an eye" is so obvious, I am not going to address it.

"The ProfEt" is not worth the paper it is printed on, when it comes to solving *real world* problems.  If you like fiction, fine.  But, keep it out of the political threads.  

Why am I not surprised that you are hung up on things not of this world?  Did you even look to see what the subject of this thread is before you posted?













Do you know what reality is when you see it?  Is anything getting through the bubble you live in?​


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, another one misses the point.  I read 'The Profit' when I was a young liberal.  In fact I leafed through it the other day which is why I brought it into this thread.
> 
> We live in a world of hard-ball politics.  We always have.  In the real world it is called "an eye for an eye."  It is now an everyday occurrence.  If you want the key to civilization read world history.  Save Gilbran for your casual fiction reading.
> 
> Time for me to quote Winston Churchill, AGAIN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Might wanna check where the quote "an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth" comes from, as well as what the people (Jews) who wrote that quote actually meant by it.
> 
> An eye for an eye means that if you injure someone and incapacitate them from doing their work, you have to compensate them for not only the injury that you brought upon them, but, if say...............they used their eyes as part of their livelihood, you had an obligation to pay for the work that they have lost as a result of that injury.
> 
> It's not quite the bloodthirsty idea that you think it is.
> 
> And by the way.....................the title is "The PROPHET", not "The Profit".  I don't think his main reason for writing that book was to make money, as much as it was a statement on what Gilbran thought of the way people treated each other.  Might wanna look into him being considered a rebel by many of the Muslim world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The answer to you post on an "eye for an eye" is so obvious, I am not going to address it.
> 
> "The ProfEt" is not worth the paper it is printed on, when it comes to solving *real world* problems.  If you like fiction, fine.  But, keep it out of the political threads.
Click to expand...


Then why did YOU bring him up, dickhead??


----------



## beagle9

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Socio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Actually, he has a point.
> 
> *Islam is incompatible with Western Culture, in the final analysis.*
> 
> The sooner we admit that to ourselves, the safer and happier we will be.
> 
> I really and truly wish that this was not the case.
> 
> But it is, what it is.
> 
> No point wandering-about this life with a pair of touchy-feely blinkers on.
> 
> With instantaneous communications and high speed travel, the world has become far too dangerous a place to hide our heads in the sand and pretend those dangers do not exist.
> 
> Because they do.
> 
> That is not xenophobia.
> 
> That is simple truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, unlike any other religion Islam has three arms, Religious, Military, and Political that are inseparable, under it there can be no separation of Church & State making it incompatible with the Wests definition of a religion.
> 
> Perhaps the right step would be to no longer classify it a religion thereby denying it the rights and privileges afforded a religion.
> 
> Cut of one arm the other two will go limp.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet more paranoid, ignorant, bigoted, nonsense.
> 
> How exactly would you go about declassifying Islam as a religion no longer subject to First Amendment protections. Would you then move forward to pass legislation making the practicing of Islam illegal. What would be the penalty for the crime of being Muslim.
> 
> Again, what you and others of your ilk are advocating is the true terrorism.
Click to expand...

Wait a minute now, so they have mass killed Americans, and have set off an IED explosive in a marathon in Boston, tried to knock down the twin towers from below, then hit them up high next, then we have the underwear bomber, the shoe bomber, Hason at Fort Hood, the USS Cole, the marine barracks in Lebanon and on and on it all goes, but some how Americans are the terrorist now for wanting to free themselves from such violence and war, and this by offering such people a way out, if it is their intent to kill while they are here because of their orders of belief in which they have to abide by ? 

Figures !


----------



## Beachboy

beagle9 said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Socio said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, unlike any other religion Islam has three arms, Religious, Military, and Political that are inseparable, under it there can be no separation of Church & State making it incompatible with the Wests definition of a religion.
> 
> Perhaps the right step would be to no longer classify it a religion thereby denying it the rights and privileges afforded a religion.
> 
> Cut of one arm the other two will go limp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet more paranoid, ignorant, bigoted, nonsense.
> 
> How exactly would you go about &#8216;declassifying&#8217; Islam as a religion no longer subject to First Amendment protections. Would you then move forward to pass legislation making the practicing of Islam &#8216;illegal.&#8217; What would be the penalty for the crime of &#8216;being Muslim.&#8217;
> 
> Again, what you and others of your ilk are advocating is the true terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wait a minute now, so they have mass killed Americans, and have set off an IED explosive in a marathon in Boston, tried to knock down the twin towers from below, then hit them up high next, then we have the underwear bomber, the shoe bomber, Hason at Fort Hood, the USS Cole, the marine barracks in Lebanon and on and on it all goes, but some how Americans are the terrorist now for wanting to free themselves from such violence and war, and this by offering such people a way out, if it is their intent to kill while they are here because of their orders of belief in which they have to abide by ?
> 
> This is a serious situation, and it angers me.  When you read this thread it is clear that Muslims and out-of-touch liberals hide behind freedom of religion for blowing up our country.  It would be funny if there was not so much death involved.  Americans like yourself realize there is a real threat here, and American lives have been lost.
> Figures !
Click to expand...



Last week in a news conference President Obama said he was going to really crank up the domestic terrorist budget.  These Muslims somehow think they can come into this forum, make lots of noise about human rights, and we are just going to let them off the hook.

We can't trust Muslims, they are tribal barbarians who will do anything they can to steal the lifestyle America has built, and get rid of us.  Americans have been far too generous with these psychotic animals.  Looks like we are going to try the Russian approach, "Treat Muslims like cattle, and keep them on a short leash."*  Problem solved.

**





It is clear what Muslims think.  Islam says kill Americans and Jews.
 Have you ever heard an apology or even sympathy from them for American dead? 
 Of course not.  What you see is what we get.  It is time to realize that "Muslims are a cancer."  
The only way to stop cancer is to cut it allout.
*​


----------



## High_Gravity

Beachboy said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your point was rationalizing the deliberate targeting of people by medieval people with medieval minds not as collateral damage, but brought about as a result of perceived historical injustices. My point was that those who seek to improve their lives and not dwell on perverse interpretations of history may do so successfully as the Vietnamese are doing today.
> 
> The damage done to the Muslim world is largely self-inflicted and it will continue to be so until they can come to terms with their own role in the catastrophe of so much of their own religion and culture. Wherever Islam borders with other religions in today's world, spanning from the Philippines to Nigeria and Central Asia to Kenya, violence and intolerance are the order of the day.
> 
> If it were confined to that huge swath, that would not be of immediate concern to the rest of the world. However, in the name of multiculturalism, significant Muslim population now find themselves embedded in the west and with them have brought a disturbing and suicidal mindset. They should not be given to chance to parasitically infect the far more progressed civilizations in which they have settled. Sweden is an excellent example.
> 
> The damage in their case, and I suspect yours, is not "collateral"; rather pathological.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paranoid, ignorant, bigoted, nonsense.
> 
> It is a fundamental fallacy to assume that because a given terrorist is incidentally Muslim that he is representative of all Muslims or Islam as a whole; or that indeed all Muslims condone the criminal acts of terrorists who falsely claim to be acting in accordance with their faith.
> 
> And how exactly do you propose that Muslims not be given to chance to parasitically infect the far more progressed civilizations in which they have settled without violating the tenets of due process and the rule of law, particularly in the United States where all persons are guaranteed their due process and equal protection rights as mandated by 14th Amendment jurisprudence.
> 
> Your advocacy that Muslims be subject to punitive measures absent evidence of criminal wrongdoing is offensive to the Constitution, and will bring far greater harm to the Republic than any terrorist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What planet are you on?
> 
> In high school my parents were often out of town on weekends.  I would throw parties.  Apparently, they were pretty good parties because I ended up Vice-President of the senior class.
> 
> When you open your house up, you learn several things;
> 
> 1).  There are the beer mooches who never contribute, but drink plenty.
> 2).  There are the teen women who clean the house, and keep order.
> 3).  There are the troublemakers who usually break something.
> 4).  There are guys who are loyal to you forever because they finally get laid.
> 
> It only takes a few parties to figure out who falls into what group.  Then you begin to eliminate the invitations to mooches and troublemakers, and reward the cleaners and guys who appreciate your efforts.  It is the same with Muslims.
> 
> Consider the the United States like your home.  It does not take long to figure out who should not be invited to the party!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A successful party, like a country, is all about controlling the guest list.​
Click to expand...


This is a very good analogy, you nailed it.


----------



## Beachboy

*The OP*



Beachboy said:


> *
> **
> If we did not allow Muslim foreigners into the United States...........
> 
> ......**there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  Duh!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​ This is not rocket science.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


----------



## KevinWestern

Beachboy said:


> *The OP*
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> **
> If we did not allow Muslim foreigners into the United States...........
> 
> ......**there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  Duh!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​ This is not rocket science.
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...


I don't think the problem is Muslim foreigners entering into the US, I think the much bigger problem is US foreigners entering into Muslim countries. Let's break this down a bit. How many terror attacks have we seen in the US in the past ten years (perpetuated by Muslim foreigners specifically), and how many deaths occurred as a result? I would estimate *15*? *30*? 

How many Muslim deaths have resulted from the US occupation of Afghanistan, Iraq, and Pakistan? I would estimate well over *300,000*. 

So who exactly is the bigger threat again? 

A few stats below. Death count (in Iraq alone) estimated at the low about 150,000, and at the high over 1,000,000:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

.


----------



## Beachboy

KevinWestern said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The OP*
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> **
> If we did not allow Muslim foreigners into the United States...........
> 
> ......**there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  Duh!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​ This is not rocket science.
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think the problem is Muslim foreigners entering into the US, I  think the much bigger problem is US foreigners entering into Muslim  countries. Let's break this down a bit. How many terror attacks have we  seen in the US in the past ten years (perpetuated by Muslim foreigners  specifically), and how many deaths occurred as a result? I would  estimate *15*? *30*?
Click to expand...


Whoa!  You are way out of touch with reality.  2,977 died in the World Trade Center alone on 9-11!

The so-called "U. S. foreigners entering into Muslim countries" are  soldiers in a war zone.  None of these Muslim countries have formally  declared war against the United States because they know we would nuke  them off the planet.  Muslim terrorists are sneaking into America  blowing up our cities, and killing our innocent citizens.  The end of  that is now.  Last week Obama announced he is turning up the heat on  domestic terrorism.  Trust me, he is not going after Baptists!



KevinWestern said:


> How many Muslim deaths have resulted from  the US occupation of Afghanistan, Iraq, and Pakistan? I would estimate  well over *300,000*. ..



Who cares?  You live in a declared war zone your chance of dying is  greater .  If these people are so stupid that they stay  there.......well.....they made their own bed.  If you are going to use a  number like 300,000 get a fact link to support your words.  We are not  about to take your word for anything, Mohammed.



KevinWestern said:


> So who exactly is the bigger threat again?



Seems to be obvious to everyone EXCEPT you.  It is the whack jobs with signs like this.






"Massacre those who insult Islam."  Real civilized culture.  They don't understand democracy.
Islam and America are not compatible.  We have tried, time to get tough.​ 

http://s3.postimg.org/9u7ln8mtv/behead_those_who_insult_islam.jpgA few stats below. Death count (in Iraq alone) estimated at the low about 150,000, and at the high over 1,000,000:
Casualties of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .[/QUOTE]

All America ever wanted was to buy some oil.  Muslim dictators blamed  the United States for everything that was wrong in their country.   America did not care what was going on in those countries, WE JUST  WANTED TO BUY SOME OIL!  Then you drag us into your Johnny Jihad bull  shit, when all we want to do is BUY SOME OIL!  We have been far too  considerate.  Our innocent citizens are dying.  Do you think that if  Americans knew the Boston Marathon bombings were coming they would have  been in Boston that day?  I doubt it.   Muslims are idiots for living in  war zones and complaining about getting killed.  

The United States is the good guy around the planet, we develop  countries, bring jobs, and opportunites.  Muslims are the barbarians who  contribute nothing but trouble on our planet.  Can you name a single  contribution to the planet of Muslims like the light bulb, democracy, or  putting a man on the moon?  No.  Never happens.  Just not culturally  developed enough to do it. 

 Looks like our Government is going to have to get violent domestically.   Smart Muslims are packing their bags and making reservations to leave  the country.  Unfortunately, there are VERY few smart Muslims.






Hell of a way to ask for my friendship or consideration, huh?​


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The OP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think the problem is Muslim foreigners entering into the US, I  think the much bigger problem is US foreigners entering into Muslim  countries. Let's break this down a bit. How many terror attacks have we  seen in the US in the past ten years (perpetuated by Muslim foreigners  specifically), and how many deaths occurred as a result? I would  estimate *15*? *30*?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whoa!  You are way out of touch with reality.  2,977 died in the World Trade Center alone on 9-11!
Click to expand...


Which had everything to do with politics and nothing to do with Islam.  Besides, some of them boarded their plane outside the US, so there goes both sides of your premise yet again.  Next...



Beachboy said:


> The so-called "U. S. foreigners entering into Muslim countries" are  soldiers in a war zone.



Are they?  What war?



Beachboy said:


> None of these Muslim countries have formally  declared war against the United States because they know we would nuke  them off the planet.


 
You just said it was a "war zone", now you say there is no war.  Must be convenient to switch bases of reasoning like the gearbox on a garbage truck.

And who says we would "nuke them off the planet"?  When have we ever done that?  When has anyone?



Beachboy said:


> Muslim terrorists are sneaking into America  blowing up our cities, and killing our innocent citizens.  The end of  that is now.  Last week Obama announced he is turning up the heat on  domestic terrorism.  Trust me, he is not going after Baptists!



Trust me, he is not going after religions either.  Duh.
That might be a good thing, since most domestic terrorism is committed by Christians.



Beachboy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many Muslim deaths have resulted from  the US occupation of Afghanistan, Iraq, and Pakistan? I would estimate  well over *300,000*. ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who cares?  You live in a declared war zone your chance of dying is  greater .
Click to expand...


Aaaaaand... now we're back to declared war again.  Vroom!



Beachboy said:


> If these people are so stupid that they stay  there.......well.....they made their own bed.



Like we do staying here?



Beachboy said:


> If you are going to use a  number like 300,000 get a fact link to support your words.  We are not  about to take your word for anything, Mohammed.



How the fuck do you get "Mohammed" out of K-e-v-i-n? 
Where are your links for these wars that turn on and off like a light switch, long as we're playing that game?



Beachboy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> So who exactly is the bigger threat again?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems to be obvious to everyone EXCEPT you.  It is the whack jobs with signs like this.
> 
> "Massacre those who insult Islam."  Real civilized culture.  They don't understand democracy.
> Islam and America are not compatible.  We have tried, time to get tough.
Click to expand...


I thought you said it was all about religion.  Now you're on to "democracy".  What the fuck does "democracy" have to do with religion?

Vrrooooom!  Yes, truly the bigger threat is Google Images.  Said the clown who demands links from others and then posts photoshops.




Beachboy said:


> All America ever wanted was to buy some oil.  Muslim dictators blamed  the United States for everything that was wrong in their country.   America did not care what was going on in those countries, WE JUST  WANTED TO BUY SOME OIL!  Then you drag us into your Johnny Jihad bull  shit, when all we want to do is BUY SOME OIL!  We have been far too  considerate.  Our innocent citizens are dying.



And theirs are not?
We have been "far too considerate" -- like this thread about "rag heads" and "animals" and "barbarians"?  That kind of 'considerate'?



Beachboy said:


> The United States is the good guy around the planet, we develop  countries, bring jobs, and opportunites.  Muslims are the barbarians who  contribute nothing but trouble on our planet.  Can you name a single  contribution to the planet of Muslims like the light bulb, democracy, or  putting a man on the moon?  No.  Never happens.  Just not culturally  developed enough to do it.



Ah yes, the "considerate" thing again.
Exactly what kind of moron classifies inventions according to what religion the inventor followed?  Snap quiz: what was Edison's religion?  Franklin's?  Lincoln's?

Who cares?
Asshole bigots, that's who.




Beachboy said:


> Hell of a way to ask for my friendship or consideration, huh?



Indeed.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Interestingly enough Pogo, the people who talk the worst about Muslims have probably never met one, and the ones that say we need to blow everyone else outta the water have probably never served.

Me?  One of the places where I felt the safest was in Dubai, U.A.E.  Why?  The people there were polite, well mannered and the police force was pretty visible.  Never had a problem there, as a matter of fact, I had quite a bit of fun going through the souks of Old Town and buying stuff like leather, perfume (came home with a  2 1/2 ounce bottle of Chanel No. 5 OIL (not perfume, but the oil the perfume was made from), and I only had to pay around 25 bucks.  Gave it to my aunt Laurie when I got back (it was her favorite), and she about freaked out because here in the States, that would be really expensive.

One of the other fun things about being there was the hospitality.  I remember going over to a shop on the cheaper part of the gold and silver souk, and the dude showed me a bit of what he did, then poured a couple cups of coffee, and we sat there and talked while he showed me his jewelry and we haggled over price.  Came out of that one with a 6 piece puzzle ring made of sterling silver that only cost me 10 bucks.

Going around in Jiddah Saudi Arabia?  Not too much problem over there either, but we did have to remember to get inside whenever we heard the first calls to prayer, but other than that, not much of a problem over there either.

I don't think BitchBoi understands that it's not the whole of Islam itself, but rather the fringe nutters who are the problem, but the same thing could be said of certain sects of Christianity as well.  Westboro Baptist's message of hate against gays comes to mind, as well as the bombings of clinics and shooting of doctors that was done by Christians in the name of their God.

Murder is murder, no matter what religion you follow, and it's the people on the fringes of any religion that can cause a bad name for the whole of the group.

Too bad BitchBoi doesn't understand that.


----------



## beagle9

KevinWestern said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The OP*
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> **
> If we did not allow Muslim foreigners into the United States...........
> 
> ......**there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  Duh!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​ This is not rocket science.
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think the problem is Muslim foreigners entering into the US, I think the much bigger problem is US foreigners entering into Muslim countries. Let's break this down a bit. How many terror attacks have we seen in the US in the past ten years (perpetuated by Muslim foreigners specifically), and how many deaths occurred as a result? I would estimate *15*? *30*?
> 
> How many Muslim deaths have resulted from the US occupation of Afghanistan, Iraq, and Pakistan? I would estimate well over *300,000*.
> 
> So who exactly is the bigger threat again?
> 
> A few stats below. Death count (in Iraq alone) estimated at the low about 150,000, and at the high over 1,000,000:
> Casualties of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> .
Click to expand...

U.S. Occupation is what you call it eh, even though we respect the government in charge in these countries, and we are there to help them clear up a problem in which they ask us to stay and do, but somehow we are the occupiers eh, and the bad guys ?


----------



## Beachboy

ABikerSailor said:


> Interestingly enough Pogo, the people who talk the worst about Muslims have probably never met one, and the ones that say we need to blow everyone else outta the water have probably never served.
> 
> Me?  One of the places where I felt the safest was in Dubai, U.A.E.  Why?  The people there were polite, well mannered and the police force was pretty visible.  Never had a problem there, as a matter of fact, I had quite a bit of fun going through the souks of Old Town and buying stuff like leather, perfume (came home with a  2 1/2 ounce bottle of Chanel No. 5 OIL (not perfume, but the oil the perfume was made from), and I only had to pay around 25 bucks.  Gave it to my aunt Laurie when I got back (it was her favorite), and she about freaked out because here in the States, that would be really expensive.
> 
> One of the other fun things about being there was the hospitality.  I remember going over to a shop on the cheaper part of the gold and silver souk, and the dude showed me a bit of what he did, then poured a couple cups of coffee, and we sat there and talked while he showed me his jewelry and we haggled over price.  Came out of that one with a 6 piece puzzle ring made of sterling silver that only cost me 10 bucks.
> 
> Going around in Jiddah Saudi Arabia?  Not too much problem over there either, but we did have to remember to get inside whenever we heard the first calls to prayer, but other than that, not much of a problem over there either.
> 
> I don't think BitchBoi understands that it's not the whole of Islam itself, but rather the fringe nutters who are the problem, but the same thing could be said of certain sects of Christianity as well.  Westboro Baptist's message of hate against gays comes to mind, as well as the bombings of clinics and shooting of doctors that was done by Christians in the name of their God.
> 
> Murder is murder, no matter what religion you follow, and it's the people on the fringes of any religion that can cause a bad name for the whole of the group.
> 
> Too bad BitchBoi doesn't understand that.



Wrong.  The people who talk the worst about Muslims are those who have seen American cities bombed, and their fellow citizens murdered in the name of Islam.  It has nothing to do with actually meeting a Muslim, just seeing the result of their violence is enough for most people.

Bitchboi understands what "murder," "terrorism," and "traitorism" are and they are spelled "M-U-S-L-I-M"

You say you like Dubai, have you thought about moving there,* REAL SOON?

**





Nothing like that old fashioned Muslim loving!





*​


----------



## Beachboy

Gartonne said:


> All you see are violent "Muslims" in this thread, bimbo boy?
> Muslims are followers of the true God, Allah, you American trash!



Love the explosion, how appropriate for Johnny Jihad!

Please keep up the name-calling it serves to prove my point that you are barbarians with nothing to say.  Foreign Muslims have no arguments to support their approval of 9-11 or the Boston Marathon Bombing. Haven't seen any fact links in this thread to support Muslim actions have you?

You are so out-of-touch, you need to watch some television network news, the facts are burying Muslims in hatred in American hatred.  Yep, Muslims did it to themselves.  I think it is a good thing to put these Islam animals in their place.  Push them back to the shit-hole countries they come from.  Islam and America are incompatible.  Johnny Jihad go home and clean up the the mess you have made of the third world. You are not America's problem!






*Stop blaming the United States for your screwed up Governments.*​


----------



## Beachboy

beagle9 said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The OP*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think the problem is Muslim foreigners entering into the US, I  think the much bigger problem is US foreigners entering into Muslim  countries. Let's break this down a bit. How many terror attacks have we  seen in the US in the past ten years (perpetuated by Muslim foreigners  specifically), and how many deaths occurred as a result? I would  estimate *15*? *30*?
> 
> How many Muslim deaths have resulted from the US occupation of Afghanistan, Iraq, and Pakistan? I would estimate well over *300,000*.
> 
> So who exactly is the bigger threat again?
> 
> A few stats below. Death count (in Iraq alone) estimated at the low about 150,000, and at the high over 1,000,000:
> Casualties of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> U.S. Occupation is what you call it eh, even though we respect the  government in charge in these countries, and we are there to help them  clear up a problem in which they ask us to stay and do, but somehow we  are the occupiers eh, and the bad guys ?
Click to expand...


My God man turn on some news!   The only reason the United States is  still in Afghanistan is because the Afghan military is not competent to  do the job themselves.  America was done when we killed Bin Laden.  Oil  is what America wants, and here is a map of the world showing oil  production by country.  Move your cursor over the map.   Oil - production by country - Thematic Map - World  Afghanistan has very little.  We are wasting our time there.

The economic truth is that the Afghan economy will collapse when America  leaves.  Afghans love our green backs, and can't survive without  $them$. Same for the Pakis.  America is not going to listen to any more  excuses from Afghans or Pakis as to why we should stay.  They are on  their own next year.  Al Qaeda is not a serious threat, we can drone  them.  This is all about money.






 
Afghanistan will collapse six months after the U. S. leaves.
These clowns are barely toilet trained.
What a waste of American lives on rag-headed barbarians.​


----------



## ABikerSailor

Beachboy said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough Pogo, the people who talk the worst about Muslims have probably never met one, and the ones that say we need to blow everyone else outta the water have probably never served.
> 
> Me?  One of the places where I felt the safest was in Dubai, U.A.E.  Why?  The people there were polite, well mannered and the police force was pretty visible.  Never had a problem there, as a matter of fact, I had quite a bit of fun going through the souks of Old Town and buying stuff like leather, perfume (came home with a  2 1/2 ounce bottle of Chanel No. 5 OIL (not perfume, but the oil the perfume was made from), and I only had to pay around 25 bucks.  Gave it to my aunt Laurie when I got back (it was her favorite), and she about freaked out because here in the States, that would be really expensive.
> 
> One of the other fun things about being there was the hospitality.  I remember going over to a shop on the cheaper part of the gold and silver souk, and the dude showed me a bit of what he did, then poured a couple cups of coffee, and we sat there and talked while he showed me his jewelry and we haggled over price.  Came out of that one with a 6 piece puzzle ring made of sterling silver that only cost me 10 bucks.
> 
> Going around in Jiddah Saudi Arabia?  Not too much problem over there either, but we did have to remember to get inside whenever we heard the first calls to prayer, but other than that, not much of a problem over there either.
> 
> I don't think BitchBoi understands that it's not the whole of Islam itself, but rather the fringe nutters who are the problem, but the same thing could be said of certain sects of Christianity as well.  Westboro Baptist's message of hate against gays comes to mind, as well as the bombings of clinics and shooting of doctors that was done by Christians in the name of their God.
> 
> Murder is murder, no matter what religion you follow, and it's the people on the fringes of any religion that can cause a bad name for the whole of the group.
> 
> Too bad BitchBoi doesn't understand that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  The people who talk the worst about Muslims are those who have seen American cities bombed, and their fellow citizens murdered in the name of Islam.  It has nothing to do with actually meeting a Muslim, just seeing the result of their violence is enough for most people.
> 
> Bitchboi understands what "murder," "terrorism," and "traitorism" are and they are spelled "M-U-S-L-I-M"
> 
> You say you like Dubai, have you thought about moving there,* REAL SOON?
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing like that old fashioned Muslim loving!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *​
Click to expand...


Have I ever thought about moving to Dubai?  Yeah.............actually..................I've thought about it a time or two, because there is a lot of money to be made there if you invest in gold, leather, perfume and silver (not necessarily in that order).

Quick question BitchyBoi.................how many ME countries have YOU been to, and if you went there, did you stop and talk to the people who lived there?

I have, and most of them are sane, they just have a different approach to spirituality than what most of the Christians do.

Interestingly enough, those who AREN'T fringe fanatics, believe in peace and cooperation as much as those who are Christian.

Keep peddling your racist bullshit though, because it helps us understand you better BitchyBoi.


----------



## KevinWestern

beagle9 said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The OP*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think the problem is Muslim foreigners entering into the US, I think the much bigger problem is US foreigners entering into Muslim countries. Let's break this down a bit. How many terror attacks have we seen in the US in the past ten years (perpetuated by Muslim foreigners specifically), and how many deaths occurred as a result? I would estimate *15*? *30*?
> 
> How many Muslim deaths have resulted from the US occupation of Afghanistan, Iraq, and Pakistan? I would estimate well over *300,000*.
> 
> So who exactly is the bigger threat again?
> 
> A few stats below. Death count (in Iraq alone) estimated at the low about 150,000, and at the high over 1,000,000:
> Casualties of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> U.S. Occupation is what you call it eh, even though we respect the government in charge in these countries, and we are there to help them clear up a problem in which they ask us to stay and do, but somehow we are the occupiers eh, and the bad guys ?
Click to expand...


Yes - a US occupation is *exactly *what it is called. 

And you talk about the US respecting the gov'ts that are in charge (haha)? Now refresh my memory, did Saddam (ie Gov't in charge in 2003) give the OK for the United States military to come into Iraq and force him out of power? You really need to think through the words you select Beachboy...

*Saddam was in no way shape or form linked to the events of 9/11 or any other direct attacks on the US*. This is important when considering the 300,000 Iraqis that died as a result of the Iraq War that WE started, and the 6,000+ US soldiers whose lives were also lost.

But guess what... some folks made a LOT of money, and I guess that's all that matters.

What were you saying again?

.


----------



## Beachboy

ABikerSailor said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly   enough Pogo, the people who talk the worst about Muslims have probably   never met one, and the ones that say we need to blow everyone else  outta  the water have probably never served.
> 
> Me?  One of the places where I felt the safest was in Dubai, U.A.E.    Why?  The people there were polite, well mannered and the police force   was pretty visible.  Never had a problem there, as a matter of fact, I   had quite a bit of fun going through the souks of Old Town and buying   stuff like leather, perfume (came home with a  2 1/2 ounce bottle of   Chanel No. 5 OIL (not perfume, but the oil the perfume was made from),   and I only had to pay around 25 bucks.  Gave it to my aunt Laurie when I   got back (it was her favorite), and she about freaked out because here   in the States, that would be really expensive.
> 
> One of the other fun things about being there was the hospitality.  I   remember going over to a shop on the cheaper part of the gold and silver   souk, and the dude showed me a bit of what he did, then poured a  couple  cups of coffee, and we sat there and talked while he showed me  his  jewelry and we haggled over price.  Came out of that one with a 6  piece  puzzle ring made of sterling silver that only cost me 10 bucks.
> 
> Going around in Jiddah Saudi Arabia?  Not too much problem over there   either, but we did have to remember to get inside whenever we heard the   first calls to prayer, but other than that, not much of a problem over   there either.
> 
> I don't think BitchBoi understands that it's not the whole of Islam   itself, but rather the fringe nutters who are the problem, but the same   thing could be said of certain sects of Christianity as well.  Westboro   Baptist's message of hate against gays comes to mind, as well as the   bombings of clinics and shooting of doctors that was done by Christians   in the name of their God.
> 
> Murder is murder, no matter what religion you follow, and it's the   people on the fringes of any religion that can cause a bad name for the   whole of the group.
> 
> Too bad BitchBoi doesn't understand that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  The people who talk the worst about Muslims are those who have   seen American cities bombed, and their fellow citizens murdered in the   name of Islam.  It has nothing to do with actually meeting a Muslim,   just seeing the result of their violence is enough for most people.
> 
> Bitchboi understands what "murder," "terrorism," and "traitorism" are and they are spelled "M-U-S-L-I-M"
> 
> You say you like Dubai, have you thought about moving there,* REAL SOON?
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing like that old fashioned Muslim loving!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have I ever thought about moving to Dubai?    Yeah.............actually..................I've thought about it a time   or two, because there is a lot of money to be made there if you invest   in gold, leather, perfume and silver (not necessarily in that order).
> 
> Quick question BitchyBoi.................how many ME countries have YOU   been to, and if you went there, did you stop and talk to the people who   lived there?
> 
> I have, and most of them are sane, they just have a different approach to spirituality than what most of the Christians do.
> 
> Interestingly enough, those who AREN'T fringe fanatics, believe in peace and cooperation as much as those who are Christian.
> 
> Keep peddling your racist bullshit though, because it helps us understand you better BitchyBoi.
Click to expand...


 First, allow me to say, "I love the term 'Bitchboi."  It tells EVBERYONE right away how sophisticated you are!     If this is what you call clever, I immediately know I can steamroller your postings.  Why you ask? You are_ just another name-caller with no reasonable arguments to support their claims._    It's an old story of your cronies in this thread.  So, please keep it   up, this thread can always use another bump, so I can post more links   and graphics.

 For at least the hundredth time.  Islam is incompatible with America.    Hiding behind a fake "religion" as a reason to perpetrate violence  and  terror will not work.  Every post you make draws viewers closer to  my  message.  You look like the brainwashed fools we know you are.​






 
"Behead those who insult Islam"  shows you for the 
14th century barbarians you are.  You are not worthy of western culture.
If you were not murderers this forum would be laughing at you!

 
​


----------



## Beachboy

*



*​


----------



## Beachboy

******Member Alert******​*
This thread has been viewed 8,432 times, which means a lot of people are  aware of the militant Muslim issue.  My point in all this posting is  for USMB members to make up their own minds about the threat of Muslims  to the lives and property of American citizens.  

Based upon 8,432 viewing, I would say USMB Americans are aware of the  threat of militant Muslims, especially if they live near a major U. S.  city like New York or Boston.  I am reminded of the old Boy Scout motto,   BE PREPARED.  If you see ANYTHING out of the ordinary, call your local police. 2,977  innocent Americans died at the hands of Muslims in the World Trade  Center on 9/11, and they were back again at the Boston Marathon  bombings.  The U. S. Government does not have the ability to protect all U. S. citizens, so BE PREPARED!

*

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roWImDX387I]9/11 World Trade Center - Video Proof of Multiple Explosions - YouTube[/ame]

This was 12 years ago, and we will never forgive Muslims for this.
America has not forgiven the Japanese for Pearl Harbor in 1941, and *NEVER* will.





.


----------



## beagle9

ABikerSailor said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough Pogo, the people who talk the worst about Muslims have probably never met one, and the ones that say we need to blow everyone else outta the water have probably never served.
> 
> Me?  One of the places where I felt the safest was in Dubai, U.A.E.  Why?  The people there were polite, well mannered and the police force was pretty visible.  Never had a problem there, as a matter of fact, I had quite a bit of fun going through the souks of Old Town and buying stuff like leather, perfume (came home with a  2 1/2 ounce bottle of Chanel No. 5 OIL (not perfume, but the oil the perfume was made from), and I only had to pay around 25 bucks.  Gave it to my aunt Laurie when I got back (it was her favorite), and she about freaked out because here in the States, that would be really expensive.
> 
> One of the other fun things about being there was the hospitality.  I remember going over to a shop on the cheaper part of the gold and silver souk, and the dude showed me a bit of what he did, then poured a couple cups of coffee, and we sat there and talked while he showed me his jewelry and we haggled over price.  Came out of that one with a 6 piece puzzle ring made of sterling silver that only cost me 10 bucks.
> 
> Going around in Jiddah Saudi Arabia?  Not too much problem over there either, but we did have to remember to get inside whenever we heard the first calls to prayer, but other than that, not much of a problem over there either.
> 
> I don't think BitchBoi understands that it's not the whole of Islam itself, but rather the fringe nutters who are the problem, but the same thing could be said of certain sects of Christianity as well.  Westboro Baptist's message of hate against gays comes to mind, as well as the bombings of clinics and shooting of doctors that was done by Christians in the name of their God.
> 
> Murder is murder, no matter what religion you follow, and it's the people on the fringes of any religion that can cause a bad name for the whole of the group.
> 
> Too bad BitchBoi doesn't understand that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  The people who talk the worst about Muslims are those who have seen American cities bombed, and their fellow citizens murdered in the name of Islam.  It has nothing to do with actually meeting a Muslim, just seeing the result of their violence is enough for most people.
> 
> Bitchboi understands what "murder," "terrorism," and "traitorism" are and they are spelled "M-U-S-L-I-M"
> 
> You say you like Dubai, have you thought about moving there,* REAL SOON?
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing like that old fashioned Muslim loving!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have I ever thought about moving to Dubai?  Yeah.............actually..................I've thought about it a time or two, because there is a lot of money to be made there if you invest in gold, leather, perfume and silver (not necessarily in that order).
> 
> Quick question BitchyBoi.................how many ME countries have YOU been to, and if you went there, did you stop and talk to the people who lived there?
> 
> I have, and most of them are sane, they just have a different approach to spirituality than what most of the Christians do.
> 
> Interestingly enough, those who AREN'T fringe fanatics, believe in peace and cooperation as much as those who are Christian.
> 
> Keep peddling your racist bullshit though, because it helps us understand you better BitchyBoi.
Click to expand...

Why would he be peddling anything out of the blue, if it weren't for the killings and bombings we have been suffering in America since the first trade tower attack, in which was unheard of in this nation only 20 short years ago, so what has happened since, and why is beachboy so concerned of these things now, when he should be enjoying life in America as an American with no fear of these things instead  ?

No matter how much peace is peddled here on behalf of those that claim this Islam religion is peaceful, along with it's followers ((as a religious people)) whom are within this nation now numbering many, then out comes evidence such as this or be it that, in which crushes the hopes of those whom want to believe in peace with all peoples who are new arrivals here in the nation, and this within the last 20 or more years, but then they just can't get by the facts or evidence that speaks differently about such a culture in which has these very deadly fringes being harbored within it, and for whom are those who are hidden in which aren't scared to act out upon such deadly notions or ideals, in which it has already shown it will do in a skinny minute as we have seen. Am I right or wrong on these types of understandings, I mean in which I have about such things maybe or rather are peoples fears justified these days, and rightfully so or maybe they are not  ?


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would he be peddling anything out of the blue, if it weren't for the  killings and bombings we have been suffering in America since the first  trade tower attack, in which was unheard of in this nation only 20  short years ago, so what has happened since, and why is beachboy so  concerned of these things now, when he should be enjoying life in  America as an American with no fear of these things instead  ?
> 
> No matter how much peace is peddled here on behalf of those that claim  this Islam religion is peaceful, along with it's followers ((as a  religious people)) whom are within this nation now numbering many, then  out comes evidence such as this or be it that, in which crushes the  hopes of those whom want to believe in peace with all peoples who are  new arrivals here in the nation, and this within the last 20 or more  years, but then they just can't get by the facts or evidence that speaks  differently about such a culture in which has these very deadly fringes  being harbored within it, and for whom are those who are hidden in  which aren't scared to act out upon such deadly notions or ideals, in  which it has already shown it will do in a skinny minute as we have  seen. Am I right or wrong on these types of understandings, I mean in  which I have about such things maybe or rather are peoples fears  justified these days, and rightfully so or maybe they are not  ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point no one has discussed here is that either you or  our, our friends of family could have been at that Boston Marathon  bombing. So what does that mean in light of the last 12 years since the  World Trade Center?  It means 9/11 was not a single incident.  These  Muslim whack jobs are trying to kill us in the places we feel safest.
> 
> 
> Today, I had lunch at the LAX restaurant as I was putting a client on a  plane.  As we were eating a man came into the restaurant looking  strange.  Suddenly, it dawned on me.  I am eating in a national  landmark, and a grubby looking middle eastern man has just entered the  restaurant with a brief case.  If this guy is a Muslim bomber, it is all  over for me.
Click to expand...


"Putting a client on a plane"... 





I didn't realize Tonka Toys made planes.

So.... if the guy is a Christian bomber, a Hindu bomber, a Jewish bomber, an atheist bomber... you're fine, right?

If only there were an "engage brain" button you had to go through before hitting "Submit post".

You keep bringing up Boston as if it was an act of terrorism, yet the guy sending ricin letters has more to do with terrorism than your favourite religion.

Again, the 'engage-brain' button....


----------



## Esmeralda

Beachboy said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would he be peddling anything out of the blue, if it weren't for the  killings and bombings we have been suffering in America since the first  trade tower attack, in which was unheard of in this nation only 20  short years ago, so what has happened since, and why is beachboy so  concerned of these things now, when he should be enjoying life in  America as an American with no fear of these things instead  ?
> 
> No matter how much peace is peddled here on behalf of those that claim  this Islam religion is peaceful, along with it's followers ((as a  religious people)) whom are within this nation now numbering many, then  out comes evidence such as this or be it that, in which crushes the  hopes of those whom want to believe in peace with all peoples who are  new arrivals here in the nation, and this within the last 20 or more  years, but then they just can't get by the facts or evidence that speaks  differently about such a culture in which has these very deadly fringes  being harbored within it, and for whom are those who are hidden in  which aren't scared to act out upon such deadly notions or ideals, in  which it has already shown it will do in a skinny minute as we have  seen. Am I right or wrong on these types of understandings, I mean in  which I have about such things maybe or rather are peoples fears  justified these days, and rightfully so or maybe they are not  ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point no one has discussed here is that either you or  our, our friends of family could have been at that Boston Marathon  bombing. So what does that mean in light of the last 12 years since the  World Trade Center?  It means 9/11 was not a single incident.  These  Muslim whack jobs are trying to kill us in the places we feel safest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> Today, I had lunch at the LAX restaurant as I was putting a client on a  plane.  As we were eating a man came into the restaurant looking  strange.  Suddenly, it dawned on me.  I am eating in a national  landmark, and a grubby looking middle eastern man has just entered the  restaurant with a brief case.  If this guy is a Muslim bomber, it is all  over for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> We as Americans should not have  to worry every time we go out into a public place that whack job,  Johnny Jihad is waiting around the corner with a bomb.  When it comes  right down to it, Muslims *like* to make  us feel uncomfortable with weird clothes and noisy language.  So, they  either assimilate, and pass government security, or we dump them all  back in the third world.
> 
> Remember, two of the Boston Marathon bombers had been on the no-fly list, and easily got in and out of the country *in spite of warnings* from Russian intelligence.   Folks, you are on your own when it comes to your personal security in the United States.
> 
> This is a no-brainer, and thinking Americans understand  this reality.   This is our country.  My family has been here nearly 300  years.  Get the barbarians out of the United States, whatever it takes.
> Last week President Obama heavily increased the budget for domestic terrorism.  How much more information do you need?​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
Click to expand...


Why do you use such a large font? Are you unable to get your point across without screaming?


----------



## S.J.

Pogo said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would he be peddling anything out of the blue, if it weren't for the  killings and bombings we have been suffering in America since the first  trade tower attack, in which was unheard of in this nation only 20  short years ago, so what has happened since, and why is beachboy so  concerned of these things now, when he should be enjoying life in  America as an American with no fear of these things instead  ?
> 
> No matter how much peace is peddled here on behalf of those that claim  this Islam religion is peaceful, along with it's followers ((as a  religious people)) whom are within this nation now numbering many, then  out comes evidence such as this or be it that, in which crushes the  hopes of those whom want to believe in peace with all peoples who are  new arrivals here in the nation, and this within the last 20 or more  years, but then they just can't get by the facts or evidence that speaks  differently about such a culture in which has these very deadly fringes  being harbored within it, and for whom are those who are hidden in  which aren't scared to act out upon such deadly notions or ideals, in  which it has already shown it will do in a skinny minute as we have  seen. Am I right or wrong on these types of understandings, I mean in  which I have about such things maybe or rather are peoples fears  justified these days, and rightfully so or maybe they are not  ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point no one has discussed here is that either you or  our, our friends of family could have been at that Boston Marathon  bombing. So what does that mean in light of the last 12 years since the  World Trade Center?  It means 9/11 was not a single incident.  These  Muslim whack jobs are trying to kill us in the places we feel safest.
> 
> 
> Today, I had lunch at the LAX restaurant as I was putting a client on a  plane.  As we were eating a man came into the restaurant looking  strange.  Suddenly, it dawned on me.  I am eating in a national  landmark, and a grubby looking middle eastern man has just entered the  restaurant with a brief case.  If this guy is a Muslim bomber, it is all  over for me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Putting a client on a plane"...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't realize Tonka Toys made planes.
> 
> So.... if the guy is a Christian bomber, a Hindu bomber, a Jewish bomber, an atheist bomber... you're fine, right?
> 
> If only there were an "engage brain" button you had to go through before hitting "Submit post".
> 
> You keep bringing up Boston as if it was an act of terrorism, yet the guy sending ricin letters has more to do with terrorism than your favourite religion.
> 
> Again, the 'engage-brain' button....
Click to expand...

What???  The Boston bombing was not an act of terrorism?


----------



## Pogo

S.J. said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The point no one has discussed here is that either you or  our, our friends of family could have been at that Boston Marathon  bombing. So what does that mean in light of the last 12 years since the  World Trade Center?  It means 9/11 was not a single incident.  These  Muslim whack jobs are trying to kill us in the places we feel safest.
> 
> 
> Today, I had lunch at the LAX restaurant as I was putting a client on a  plane.  As we were eating a man came into the restaurant looking  strange.  Suddenly, it dawned on me.  I am eating in a national  landmark, and a grubby looking middle eastern man has just entered the  restaurant with a brief case.  If this guy is a Muslim bomber, it is all  over for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Putting a client on a plane"...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't realize Tonka Toys made planes.
> 
> So.... if the guy is a Christian bomber, a Hindu bomber, a Jewish bomber, an atheist bomber... you're fine, right?
> 
> If only there were an "engage brain" button you had to go through before hitting "Submit post".
> 
> You keep bringing up Boston as if it was an act of terrorism, yet the guy sending ricin letters has more to do with terrorism than your favourite religion.
> 
> Again, the 'engage-brain' button....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What???  The Boston bombing was not an act of terrorism?
Click to expand...


Sure.  Since every act of terrorism is committed to send a message (9/11: "death to America"; Unabomber: "death to technology"; Roeder, Rudolph et al: "death to abortion"), obviously the message here was ... "Walk, don't run".  Or maybe "Get this crowd off Copley Square".



As another poster astutely noted in another thread, if the Boston bombing indicts all Muslims as "terrorists" on the basis that that was their religion, then the ricin letter sender should indict all gun advocates.

Or to follow the OP's toddler logic, it should indict whatever the religion of the ricin sender is.  If he turns out to be, say, a Shintoist, then all Shintoists are terrorists.  And since the ricin sending actually is terrorism, the case there is stronger.

I know I shall be looking forward to that Bleachboy thread with its gallery of photoshopped Shinto extemists, desperate pleas to "watch TV" and its text lipsticked up to look like it was written by Baby Huey wielding a giant set of Crayolas.


----------



## Beachboy

Esmeralda said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would he be peddling anything out of the blue, if it weren't for the  killings and bombings we have been suffering in America since the first  trade tower attack, in which was unheard of in this nation only 20  short years ago, so what has happened since, and why is beachboy so  concerned of these things now, when he should be enjoying life in  America as an American with no fear of these things instead  ?
> 
> No matter how much peace is peddled here on behalf of those that claim  this Islam religion is peaceful, along with it's followers ((as a  religious people)) whom are within this nation now numbering many, then  out comes evidence such as this or be it that, in which crushes the  hopes of those whom want to believe in peace with all peoples who are  new arrivals here in the nation, and this within the last 20 or more  years, but then they just can't get by the facts or evidence that speaks  differently about such a culture in which has these very deadly fringes  being harbored within it, and for whom are those who are hidden in  which aren't scared to act out upon such deadly notions or ideals, in  which it has already shown it will do in a skinny minute as we have  seen. Am I right or wrong on these types of understandings, I mean in  which I have about such things maybe or rather are peoples fears  justified these days, and rightfully so or maybe they are not  ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point no one has discussed here is that either you or  our, our friends of family could have been at that Boston Marathon  bombing. So what does that mean in light of the last 12 years since the  World Trade Center?  It means 9/11 was not a single incident.  These  Muslim whack jobs are trying to kill us in the places we feel safest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> Today, I had lunch at the LAX restaurant as I was putting a client on a  plane.  As we were eating a man came into the restaurant looking  strange.  Suddenly, it dawned on me.  I am eating in a national  landmark, and a grubby looking middle eastern man has just entered the  restaurant with a brief case.  If this guy is a Muslim bomber, it is all  over for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> We as Americans should not have  to worry every time we go out into a public place that whack job,  Johnny Jihad is waiting around the corner with a bomb.  When it comes  right down to it, Muslims *like* to make  us feel uncomfortable with weird clothes and noisy language.  So, they  either assimilate, and pass government security, or we dump them all  back in the third world.
> 
> Remember, two of the Boston Marathon bombers had been on the no-fly list, and easily got in and out of the country *in spite of warnings* from Russian intelligence.   Folks, you are on your own when it comes to your personal security in the United States.
> 
> This is a no-brainer, and thinking Americans understand  this reality.   This is our country.  My family has been here nearly 300  years.  Get the barbarians out of the United States, whatever it takes.
> Last week President Obama heavily increased the budget for domestic terrorism.  How much more information do you need?​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you use such a large font? Are you unable to get your point across without screaming?
Click to expand...


Not that it is any of your business.  I do not like to wear my glasses when I am involved in detailed posting on the internet, and contacts are uncomfortable for me.


----------



## KevinWestern

Beachboy said:


> This thread has been beaten to death.  Here is a similar thread with a more urgent message backed up with no less than five fact/links!
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/usmb-...-states-threaten-your-safety.html#post7314047​



Of all the other things I can die of (heart disease, cancer causing GMOs, car accidents, ect) I just don't see "Muslim terror attacks" as being that big of a threat.

How many radical Muslim attacks have we seen in the past decade (in US), and how many deaths occurred as a result? 

Only ones I can think of are the Fort Hood incident + Boston. Totals less than 20 killed, I believe.

In a population of 315,000,000, just doesn't seem to reach the level of extreme severity you seem to describe. I think you're clearly fear mongering (sorry to be blunt, but it's true). 


.


----------



## Beachboy

beagle9 said:


> Why would he be peddling anything out of the blue, if it weren't for the   killings and bombings we have been suffering in America since the  first  trade tower attack, in which was unheard of in this nation only  20  short years ago, so what has happened since, and why is beachboy so   concerned of these things now, when he should be enjoying life in   America as an American with no fear of these things instead  ?
> 
> No matter how much peace is peddled here on behalf of those that claim   this Islam religion is peaceful, along with it's followers ((as a   religious people)) whom are within this nation now numbering many, then   out comes evidence such as this or be it that, in which crushes the   hopes of those whom want to believe in peace with all peoples who are   new arrivals here in the nation, and this within the last 20 or more   years, but then they just can't get by the facts or evidence that speaks   differently about such a culture in which has these very deadly  fringes  being harbored within it, and for whom are those who are hidden  in  which aren't scared to act out upon such deadly notions or ideals,  in  which it has already shown it will do in a skinny minute as we have   seen. Am I right or wrong on these types of understandings, I mean in   which I have about such things maybe or rather are peoples fears   justified these days, and rightfully so or maybe they are not  ?



The point no one has discussed here is that either you or   our, our friends of family could have been at that Boston Marathon   bombing. So what does that mean in light of the last 12 years since the   World Trade Center?  It means 9/11 was not a single incident.  These   Muslim whack jobs are trying to kill us in the places we feel safest.






​ 
Today, I had lunch at the LAX restaurant as I was putting a client on a   plane.  As we were eating a man came into the restaurant looking   strange.  Suddenly, it dawned on me.  I am eating in a national   landmark, and a grubby looking middle eastern man has just entered the   restaurant with a brief case.  If this guy is a Muslim bomber, it is all   over for me.





​ 
 We as Americans should not have   to worry every time we go out into a public place that whack job,   Johnny Jihad is waiting around the corner with a bomb.  When it comes   right down to it, Muslims *like* to make   us feel uncomfortable with weird clothes and noisy language.  So, they   either assimilate, and pass government security, or we dump them all   back in the third world.

 Remember, two of the Boston Marathon bombers had been on the no-fly list, and easily got in and out of the country *in spite of warnings* from Russian intelligence.   Folks, you are on your own when it comes to your personal security in the United States.

 This is a no-brainer, and thinking Americans understand   this reality.   This is our country.  My family has been here nearly  300  years.  Get the barbarians out of the United States, whatever it  takes.   
 Last week President Obama heavily increased the budget for domestic terrorism.  How much more information do you need?​ 




​


----------



## Beachboy

*This thread has been beaten to death.  Here is a similar thread with a  more urgent message backed up with no less than five fact/links!*

http://www.usmessageboard.com/usmb-...-states-threaten-your-safety.html#post7314047









.
​


----------



## ABikerSailor

Beachboy said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would he be peddling anything out of the blue, if it weren't for the   killings and bombings we have been suffering in America since the  first  trade tower attack, in which was unheard of in this nation only  20  short years ago, so what has happened since, and why is beachboy so   concerned of these things now, when he should be enjoying life in   America as an American with no fear of these things instead  ?
> 
> No matter how much peace is peddled here on behalf of those that claim   this Islam religion is peaceful, along with it's followers ((as a   religious people)) whom are within this nation now numbering many, then   out comes evidence such as this or be it that, in which crushes the   hopes of those whom want to believe in peace with all peoples who are   new arrivals here in the nation, and this within the last 20 or more   years, but then they just can't get by the facts or evidence that speaks   differently about such a culture in which has these very deadly  fringes  being harbored within it, and for whom are those who are hidden  in  which aren't scared to act out upon such deadly notions or ideals,  in  which it has already shown it will do in a skinny minute as we have   seen. Am I right or wrong on these types of understandings, I mean in   which I have about such things maybe or rather are peoples fears   justified these days, and rightfully so or maybe they are not  ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point no one has discussed here is that either you or   our, our friends of family could have been at that Boston Marathon   bombing. So what does that mean in light of the last 12 years since the   World Trade Center?  It means 9/11 was not a single incident.  These   Muslim whack jobs are trying to kill us in the places we feel safest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> Today, I had lunch at the LAX restaurant as I was putting a client on a   plane.  As we were eating a man came into the restaurant looking   strange.  Suddenly, it dawned on me.  I am eating in a national   landmark, and a grubby looking middle eastern man has just entered the   restaurant with a brief case.  If this guy is a Muslim bomber, it is all   over for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> We as Americans should not have   to worry every time we go out into a public place that whack job,   Johnny Jihad is waiting around the corner with a bomb.  When it comes   right down to it, Muslims *like* to make   us feel uncomfortable with weird clothes and noisy language.  So, they   either assimilate, and pass government security, or we dump them all   back in the third world.
> 
> Remember, two of the Boston Marathon bombers had been on the no-fly list, and easily got in and out of the country *in spite of warnings* from Russian intelligence.   Folks, you are on your own when it comes to your personal security in the United States.
> 
> This is a no-brainer, and thinking Americans understand   this reality.   This is our country.  My family has been here nearly  300  years.  Get the barbarians out of the United States, whatever it  takes.
> Last week President Obama heavily increased the budget for domestic terrorism.  How much more information do you need?​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
Click to expand...


Apparently, you listen to a lot of FAUX Nooze.....................don't you?

Keep feeling the fear dude.................because that's all that  they sell..................


----------



## Meathead

Esmeralda said:


> Why do you use such a large font? Are you unable to get your point across without screaming?


The screaming is in your head my dear - obviously. If you look at the post and close your eyes, I am sure you will still hear it.


----------



## Beachboy

ABikerSailor said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would he be peddling anything out of the blue, if it weren't for the   killings and bombings we have been suffering in America since the  first  trade tower attack, in which was unheard of in this nation only  20  short years ago, so what has happened since, and why is beachboy so   concerned of these things now, when he should be enjoying life in   America as an American with no fear of these things instead  ?
> 
> No matter how much peace is peddled here on behalf of those that claim   this Islam religion is peaceful, along with it's followers ((as a   religious people)) whom are within this nation now numbering many, then   out comes evidence such as this or be it that, in which crushes the   hopes of those whom want to believe in peace with all peoples who are   new arrivals here in the nation, and this within the last 20 or more   years, but then they just can't get by the facts or evidence that speaks   differently about such a culture in which has these very deadly  fringes  being harbored within it, and for whom are those who are hidden  in  which aren't scared to act out upon such deadly notions or ideals,  in  which it has already shown it will do in a skinny minute as we have   seen. Am I right or wrong on these types of understandings, I mean in   which I have about such things maybe or rather are peoples fears   justified these days, and rightfully so or maybe they are not  ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point no one has discussed here is that either you or   our, our friends of family could have been at that Boston Marathon   bombing. So what does that mean in light of the last 12 years since the   World Trade Center?  It means 9/11 was not a single incident.  These   Muslim whack jobs are trying to kill us in the places we feel safest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> Today, I had lunch at the LAX restaurant as I was putting a client on a   plane.  As we were eating a man came into the restaurant looking   strange.  Suddenly, it dawned on me.  I am eating in a national   landmark, and a grubby looking middle eastern man has just entered the   restaurant with a brief case.  If this guy is a Muslim bomber, it is all   over for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> We as Americans should not have   to worry every time we go out into a public place that whack job,   Johnny Jihad is waiting around the corner with a bomb.  When it comes   right down to it, Muslims *like* to make   us feel uncomfortable with weird clothes and noisy language.  So, they   either assimilate, and pass government security, or we dump them all   back in the third world.
> 
> Remember, two of the Boston Marathon bombers had been on the no-fly list, and easily got in and out of the country *in spite of warnings* from Russian intelligence.   Folks, you are on your own when it comes to your personal security in the United States.
> 
> This is a no-brainer, and thinking Americans understand   this reality.   This is our country.  My family has been here nearly  300  years.  Get the barbarians out of the United States, whatever it  takes.
> Last week President Obama heavily increased the budget for domestic terrorism.  How much more information do you need?​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently, you listen to a lot of FAUX Nooze.....................don't you?
> 
> Keep feeling the fear dude.................because that's all that  they sell..................
Click to expand...


This is not Fox News, this is something that actually happened to me.  Typical of the ignorant third world Muslims.  When lacking facts, you just manufacture some.  I watch CBS, NBC, and CNN.  I will watch Fox to see how they cover a story.

I don't know how you got the idea that *ONLY* conservative Republicans are concerned about militant Muslim violence.  I am an independent voter.  I have never seen conservatives and liberals come together on this issue in an extraordinary way.

The *fear *America feels is from *Johnny Jihad and friends* after a series of terrorist actions in the United States.  Fear does not need to be sold to real American citizens, they can turn on any television channel, or read any news magazine to get the message on terrorist Muslim traitors.

This thread really scares the hell out of you bastards.  Five source links from liberal and conservative media warning America about 35 militant Muslim training camps.  It is interesting to see you try to weasel out of proven facts!  Why do you want those 35 militant Muslim training camps anyway?  Let us think.....  Could it be *domestic Jihad*?  I think so.







Americans are smart enough to know an enemy when they are attacked.





​


----------



## Beachboy

Meathead said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you use such a large font? Are you unable to get your point  across without screaming?
> 
> 
> 
> The screaming is in your head my dear -  obviously. If you look at the post and close your eyes, I am sure you  will still hear it.
Click to expand...


I use a #3 font because I have to shout to get the Muslim cattle's  attention.  Yet, they are still too stupid to figure out the obvious.   Islam is not compatible with America.

Your desperation to sell the Muslim agenda is failing.  Your name-calling is adolescent.







Just brainwashed Islam cattle.  Get rid of them like we would a mad dog.










.


----------



## MaryL

Gota  love Islam, not only  do they ban/frown on  other religions, they also  ban people from changing from Islam to any other religion. AND they don't tolerate people that are agnostic.  And they chop off people's head's for frivolous reasons  and crash planes into buildings , use IED's and kill Shiites or  Sunnis. Great religion, really.  How can we tell the bad ones from the good ones? How?


----------



## Pogo

And the hits just keep on comin'.



Beachboy said:


> Your name-calling is adolescent.



... followed _immediately _by:



Beachboy said:


> Just brainwashed Islam cattle.



So regular you can set your watch by it.


----------



## beagle9

Pogo said:


> And the hits just keep on comin'.
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your name-calling is adolescent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... followed _immediately _by:
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just brainwashed Islam cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So regular you can set your watch by it.
Click to expand...

I agree that it doesn't help to ruin a message with name calling and such (stay above it), but then when a person see's barbaric actions out of people that are waring with his nation in which he see's himself as an American in, and that he feels under attack by such actions, then I guess the name calling or speak is to him justified, even though I don't engage in that sort of thing myself when trying to speak about an issue or a people of concern, but that's just me.


----------



## Pogo

beagle9 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the hits just keep on comin'.
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your name-calling is adolescent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... followed _immediately _by:
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just brainwashed Islam cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So regular you can set your watch by it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree that it doesn't help to ruin a message with name calling and such (stay above it), but then when a person see's barbaric actions out of people that are waring with his nation in which he see's himself as an American in, and that he feels under attack by such actions, then I guess the name calling or speak is to him justified, even though I don't engage in that sort of thing myself when trying to speak about an issue or a people of concern, but that's just me.
Click to expand...


If ad hominem "doesn't help" and "ruins" a message, even if it is "justified" ---- what point, ultimately, has the poop-flinger made?  Only one about himself.

That's the point here.  And it's been going on steadily since post #1.


----------



## Eric Cartman




----------



## beagle9

Eric Cartman said:


>


That simple eh ? Uh no it isn't....However, yes it is true what the Statue of Liberty stands for, I just wish that the radicals and killers who want to come here under her protection, and by her quest for those to come here for whom want to live free, were denied to do so under strict immigration law in which would catch them at the points of entry.


----------



## ABikerSailor

I guess this means that BitchBoi isn't really qualified to receive immigrants.


----------



## Pogo

ABikerSailor said:


> I guess this means that BitchBoi isn't really qualified to receive immigrants.



Based on the mentality of his posts I doubt BelchBoy is qualified to reach the kitchen cookie jar.


----------



## Beachboy

beagle9 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the hits just keep on comin'.
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your name-calling is adolescent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... followed _immediately _by:
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just brainwashed Islam cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So regular you can set your watch by it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree that it doesn't help to ruin a message with name calling and   such (stay above it), but then when a person see's barbaric actions out   of people that are waring with his nation in which he see's himself as   an American in, and that he feels under attack by such actions, then I   guess the name calling or speak is to him justified, even though I  don't  engage in that sort of thing myself when trying to speak about an  issue  or a people of concern, but that's just me.
Click to expand...


I think your post is reasonable, but I think this guy   said it more succinctly.  Remember war involves demonizing the enemy.    And demonizing Muslims is, "a piece of cake." 

They do it to themselves, just watch them kill and blow up cities. 

The only ones speaking up for Muslims here, are their   fellow rag-heads.  Muzzies have offended everyone.  If they were not   murderers and traitors they would be funny to watch with their backward   ways.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Beachboy said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the hits just keep on comin'.
> 
> 
> 
> ... followed _immediately _by:
> 
> 
> 
> So regular you can set your watch by it.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that it doesn't help to ruin a message with name calling and   such (stay above it), but then when a person see's barbaric actions out   of people that are waring with his nation in which he see's himself as   an American in, and that he feels under attack by such actions, then I   guess the name calling or speak is to him justified, even though I  don't  engage in that sort of thing myself when trying to speak about an  issue  or a people of concern, but that's just me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think your post is reasonable, but I think this guy   said it more succinctly.  Remember war involves demonizing the enemy.    And demonizing Muslims is, "a piece of cake."
> 
> They do it to themselves, just watch them kill and blow up cities.
> 
> The only ones speaking up for Muslims here, are their   fellow rag-heads.  Muzzies have offended everyone.  If they were not   murderers and traitors they would be funny to watch with their backward   ways.
Click to expand...


Yeah.................sure.....................demonizing the enemy....................just like Hitler did with the Jews.

Or....................how about like what the white man did with the Native Americans?

Wanna talk about the black folk who sat on a bus, or refused to drink at the black fountains?

Wanna know something?  The people who demonize others are usually the ones who should be demonized because of their very short sighted views.


----------



## beagle9

ABikerSailor said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that it doesn't help to ruin a message with name calling and   such (stay above it), but then when a person see's barbaric actions out   of people that are waring with his nation in which he see's himself as   an American in, and that he feels under attack by such actions, then I   guess the name calling or speak is to him justified, even though I  don't  engage in that sort of thing myself when trying to speak about an  issue  or a people of concern, but that's just me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think your post is reasonable, but I think this guy   said it more succinctly.  Remember war involves demonizing the enemy.    And demonizing Muslims is, "a piece of cake."
> 
> They do it to themselves, just watch them kill and blow up cities.
> 
> The only ones speaking up for Muslims here, are their   fellow rag-heads.  Muzzies have offended everyone.  If they were not   murderers and traitors they would be funny to watch with their backward   ways.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah.................sure.....................demonizing the enemy....................just like Hitler did with the Jews.
> 
> Or....................how about like what the white man did with the Native Americans?
> 
> Wanna talk about the black folk who sat on a bus, or refused to drink at the black fountains?
> 
> Wanna know something?  The people who demonize others are usually the ones who should be demonized because of their very short sighted views.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you are a man with vengeance and hatred in your heart, and maybe a chip on your shoulder to boot, even though all that you speak of has been taken care of by the white man who recognized his wrong through out history, and then corrected himself even at the cost of his own peoples lives in the process in which shows just how good white people really are in the end.   Now here we have people like you trying to bring the past up against white people, as if it will be the final nail in the coffin for them as found in the quest for dominance over them by those who think in this sort of way, but what they or you don't understand is this, the white man can think to himself next if not careful, "what kind of fool was I to have done what I have done, just to bring about my peoples demise and downfall in the end because of" ? This is where the white people in America are being pushed towards if these people whom desire to see white people suffer now in some sort of vengeful thinking because of the past, in which has been settled already, and is still being settled in small pockets as we speak by white on white corrections. The wrong thing to do is make white people feel that they were complete fools for doing all that they have done to make this nation diverse and as great as it had become to date, just because of some sort of vengeance or hatred being kept or fueled now by those whom think in these sorts of ways.  Here is how good white people (Americans) are, and how they had done the right thing even onto their enemies who were trying so hard to kill them in war back then.


----------



## irosie91

there is a difference between  VENGEANCE,  BIGOTRY-----and 
well thought out----appropriate response.---VERY WELL THOUGHT 
OUT.  

My little pet peeve is the utter lack of response by the 
civilized world to the wonton, barbaric, vandalizing in 
the name of  islam ----of WORLD HERITAGE.   My sense 
regarding the  bombing of the  Giant Buddha carvings 
in Afghanistan is that it was an act comitted in the NAME 
OF ISLAM ----by muslims ----whose numbers are so vast 
and whose  INTERRELATIONSHIPS are so strong---that it 
could have been accomplished only by overhwelming --
even if tacit---- approval by the muslims of the world.   I am not 
all that vindictive that I would seek blood shed-----just a 
symbolic response-----like a destruction of an important 
muslim shrine<<<   that's all.      The world had no right to 
NON-RESPONSE.    Hundreds of  "holy sites"  have been 
vandalized since-----mayby relatively minor but I do honestly 
believe that if the world had responded in  2001----(?--or was it 
2002?)    lots of temples and churches would have been spared 
since


----------



## Beachboy

beagle9 said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think your post is reasonable, but I think this guy   said it more succinctly.  Remember war involves demonizing the enemy.    And demonizing Muslims is, "a piece of cake."
> 
> They do it to themselves, just watch them kill and blow up cities.
> 
> The only ones speaking up for Muslims here, are their   fellow rag-heads.  Muzzies have offended everyone.  If they were not   murderers and traitors they would be funny to watch with their backward   ways.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah.................sure.....................demonizing the enemy....................just like Hitler did with the Jews.
> 
> Or....................how about like what the white man did with the Native Americans?
> 
> Wanna talk about the black folk who sat on a bus, or refused to drink at the black fountains?
> 
> Wanna know something?  The people who demonize others are usually the ones who should be demonized because of their very short sighted views.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sounds like you are a man with vengeance and hatred in your heart, and maybe a chip on your shoulder to boot, even though all that you speak of has been taken care of by the white man who recognized his wrong through out history, and then corrected himself even at the cost of his own peoples lives in the process in which shows just how good white people really are in the end.   Now here we have people like you trying to bring the past up against white people, as if it will be the final nail in the coffin for them as found in the quest for dominance over them by those who think in this sort of way, but what they or you don't understand is this, the white man can think to himself next if not careful, "what kind of fool was I to have done what I have done, just to bring about my peoples demise and downfall in the end because of" ? This is where the white people in America are being pushed towards if these people whom desire to see white people suffer now in some sort of vengeful thinking because of the past, in which has been settled already, and is still being settled in small pockets as we speak by white on white corrections. The wrong thing to do is make white people feel that they were complete fools for doing all that they have done to make this nation diverse and as great as it had become to date, just because of some sort of vengeance or hatred being kept or fueled now by those whom think in these sorts of ways.  Here is how good white people (Americans) are, and how they had done the right thing even onto their enemies who were trying so hard to kill them in war back then.          [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjSBZLSpD8Q"]Germany Today: Post-World War II Reconstruction, 1947 - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...


Gosh!  You really think so?  Wonder if it has to do with 2,977 innocent people killed in the World Trade Center in 2001, plus three more this year at the Boston Marathon bombing, plus many more in the years in between.  So, you are saying it is "vengeful" to want justice against the Muslims who caused the death of my fellow citizens?  Actually, I don't care what you think!

Stop trying to cover your ass.  You Muslim animals, only understand violence.  Anglo-Saxons were drawing and quartering before the rag-headed trash had even crawled out of the caves.  You want violence.  America can deliver!






Merely a more technological approach!






Faster, less painful, and safe for our pilot.
Absolutely beautiful!​


----------



## KevinWestern

Beachboy said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah.................sure.....................demonizing the enemy....................just like Hitler did with the Jews.
> 
> Or....................how about like what the white man did with the Native Americans?
> 
> Wanna talk about the black folk who sat on a bus, or refused to drink at the black fountains?
> 
> Wanna know something?  The people who demonize others are usually the ones who should be demonized because of their very short sighted views.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you are a man with vengeance and hatred in your heart, and maybe a chip on your shoulder to boot, even though all that you speak of has been taken care of by the white man who recognized his wrong through out history, and then corrected himself even at the cost of his own peoples lives in the process in which shows just how good white people really are in the end.   Now here we have people like you trying to bring the past up against white people, as if it will be the final nail in the coffin for them as found in the quest for dominance over them by those who think in this sort of way, but what they or you don't understand is this, the white man can think to himself next if not careful, "what kind of fool was I to have done what I have done, just to bring about my peoples demise and downfall in the end because of" ? This is where the white people in America are being pushed towards if these people whom desire to see white people suffer now in some sort of vengeful thinking because of the past, in which has been settled already, and is still being settled in small pockets as we speak by white on white corrections. The wrong thing to do is make white people feel that they were complete fools for doing all that they have done to make this nation diverse and as great as it had become to date, just because of some sort of vengeance or hatred being kept or fueled now by those whom think in these sorts of ways.  Here is how good white people (Americans) are, and how they had done the right thing even onto their enemies who were trying so hard to kill them in war back then.          [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjSBZLSpD8Q"]Germany Today: Post-World War II Reconstruction, 1947 - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gosh!  You really think so?  Wonder if it has to do with 2,977 innocent people killed in the World Trade Center in 2001, plus three more this year at the Boston Marathon bombing, plus many more in the years in between.  So, you are saying it is "vengeful" to want justice against the Muslims who caused the death of my fellow citizens?  Actually, I don't care what you think!
> 
> Stop trying to cover your ass.  You Muslim animals, only understand violence.  Anglo-Saxons were drawing and quartering before the rag-headed trash had even crawled out of the caves.  You want violence.  America can deliver!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Merely a more technological approach!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faster, less painful, and safe for our pilot.
> Absolutely beautiful!​
Click to expand...


(a) How many Muslims has the US killed on their turf in the past decade?
(b) How many Americans have been killed by Muslims on US soil in the past decade?

I assure you, "(a)" is a gigantically larger number.

I've yet to really see an answer from you...


.


----------



## irosie91

I would not hazard a guess-----in the US ---we do not describe our 
criminal population by religion.  As to numbers of muslims killed by muslims---
the number is very high----as to number of muslims killed by americans---
in the past year----probably in something like ---in the hundreds .   As to numbers of 
murders comitted by muslims in the USA     whether muslim or non muslim as victims---
probably over into the thousands.   As to numbers of muslims killed by muslims in the world--into the hundreds of thousands


----------



## beagle9

Beachboy said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah.................sure.....................demonizing the enemy....................just like Hitler did with the Jews.
> 
> Or....................how about like what the white man did with the Native Americans?
> 
> Wanna talk about the black folk who sat on a bus, or refused to drink at the black fountains?
> 
> Wanna know something?  The people who demonize others are usually the ones who should be demonized because of their very short sighted views.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you are a man with vengeance and hatred in your heart, and maybe a chip on your shoulder to boot, even though all that you speak of has been taken care of by the white man who recognized his wrong through out history, and then corrected himself even at the cost of his own peoples lives in the process in which shows just how good white people really are in the end.   Now here we have people like you trying to bring the past up against white people, as if it will be the final nail in the coffin for them as found in the quest for dominance over them by those who think in this sort of way, but what they or you don't understand is this, the white man can think to himself next if not careful, "what kind of fool was I to have done what I have done, just to bring about my peoples demise and downfall in the end because of" ? This is where the white people in America are being pushed towards if these people whom desire to see white people suffer now in some sort of vengeful thinking because of the past, in which has been settled already, and is still being settled in small pockets as we speak by white on white corrections. The wrong thing to do is make white people feel that they were complete fools for doing all that they have done to make this nation diverse and as great as it had become to date, just because of some sort of vengeance or hatred being kept or fueled now by those whom think in these sorts of ways.  Here is how good white people (Americans) are, and how they had done the right thing even onto their enemies who were trying so hard to kill them in war back then.          [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjSBZLSpD8Q"]Germany Today: Post-World War II Reconstruction, 1947 - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gosh!  You really think so?  Wonder if it has to do with 2,977 innocent people killed in the World Trade Center in 2001, plus three more this year at the Boston Marathon bombing, plus many more in the years in between.  So, you are saying it is "vengeful" to want justice against the Muslims who caused the death of my fellow citizens?  Actually, I don't care what you think!
> 
> Stop trying to cover your ass.  You Muslim animals, only understand violence.  Anglo-Saxons were drawing and quartering before the rag-headed trash had even crawled out of the caves.  You want violence.  America can deliver!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Merely a more technological approach!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faster, less painful, and safe for our pilot.
> Absolutely beautiful!​
Click to expand...

Are you stupid or something ? I was responding to Abikersailor.... Now go back and read carefully before you act stupid again..


----------



## Beachboy

beagle9 said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you are a man with vengeance and hatred in your heart, and maybe a chip on your shoulder to boot, even though all that you speak of has been taken care of by the white man who recognized his wrong through out history, and then corrected himself even at the cost of his own peoples lives in the process in which shows just how good white people really are in the end.   Now here we have people like you trying to bring the past up against white people, as if it will be the final nail in the coffin for them as found in the quest for dominance over them by those who think in this sort of way, but what they or you don't understand is this, the white man can think to himself next if not careful, "what kind of fool was I to have done what I have done, just to bring about my peoples demise and downfall in the end because of" ? This is where the white people in America are being pushed towards if these people whom desire to see white people suffer now in some sort of vengeful thinking because of the past, in which has been settled already, and is still being settled in small pockets as we speak by white on white corrections. The wrong thing to do is make white people feel that they were complete fools for doing all that they have done to make this nation diverse and as great as it had become to date, just because of some sort of vengeance or hatred being kept or fueled now by those whom think in these sorts of ways.  Here is how good white people (Americans) are, and how they had done the right thing even onto their enemies who were trying so hard to kill them in war back then.          Germany Today: Post-World War II Reconstruction, 1947 - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gosh!  You really think so?  Wonder if it has to do with 2,977 innocent people killed in the World Trade Center in 2001, plus three more this year at the Boston Marathon bombing, plus many more in the years in between.  So, you are saying it is "vengeful" to want justice against the Muslims who caused the death of my fellow citizens?  Actually, I don't care what you think!
> 
> Stop trying to cover your ass.  You Muslim animals, only understand violence.  Anglo-Saxons were drawing and quartering before the rag-headed trash had even crawled out of the caves.  You want violence.  America can deliver!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Merely a more technological approach!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faster, less painful, and safe for our pilot.
> Absolutely beautiful!​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you stupid or something ? I was responding to Abikersailor.... Now go back and read carefully before you act stupid again..
Click to expand...


If you are so competent, why not try making your own thread?  I am the OP on this, and I will address what I choose to.  Got it, hot shot?

Besides if you had read post 608, you would realize the action moved out of this thread four days ago!!!  And, it has moved on again since.  Try to keep up.




Beachboy said:


> *This thread has been beaten to  death.  Here is a similar thread with a  more urgent message!*
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...tanbul-as-dictator-implements-muslim-law.html​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> ​


----------



## ABikerSailor

I think we've got it..........................BitchBoi is one a bit insecure.

No wonder he hates those that go against him...........................


----------



## Pogo

Delusions of grandeur too. 



Beachboy said:


> If you are so competent, why not try making your own thread?  I am the OP on this, and I will address what I choose to.  Got it, hot shot?
> 
> Besides if you had read post 608, you would realize the action moved out of this thread four days ago!!!  And, it has moved on again since.  Try to keep up.



... When did this thread ever have "action"?

Such are the trappings of a narcissist.


----------



## Pogo

Beachboy said:


> You Muslim animals, only understand violence.  Anglo-Saxons were drawing and quartering before the rag-headed trash had even crawled out of the caves.  You want violence.  America can deliver!




Great.  Takes his own point and self-immolates it.  "We" invented drawing and quartering, and that makes "them" the animals.

  ​


----------



## antiquity

I oppose any immigration bill that doesn't secure the border first and fails to punishes any employer who hires illegals for any reason. 
Another point, actually two points, one put a hold on anyone from a Muslim society for at least five years and two....stop educational visas for Chinese students. Seem there is strong evidence that students from China after they return to China after getting high tech education in computer science are using it to attack both commercial and government military sites in the US.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Apparently, BitchBoi is going to use history.

Good luck asshole..................much of it is against you, and your bigoted claims...................


----------



## Beachboy

ABikerSailor said:


> I think we've got it..........................BitchBoi is one a bit insecure.
> 
> No wonder he hates those that go against him...........................



*Insecure?  Muslims were not on my radar a few weeks ago.  Then, the facts on the Boston Marathon bombers came out.  Then, I looked back and researched 9/11.  Then, I found the following list of violent actions by Muslims on Wiki.  After reading this list one would have to be blind deaf, and dumb not to know Muslims are enemies of western culture.  Muslims are prepared to kill anyone who disagrees with them.  American Muslims who do nothing to stop the violence are as guilty as those who perform it.  We must fight fire with fire.

Read this fucking list, moron!  Here are many solid reasons to feel insecure about Muslims.

*
Islam's  doctrines and texts have in some cases been associated with violence.  This article deals with the juxtaposition in Islamic law and theology of  violence and non-violence by groups and individuals. Attitudes and laws  towards both violence and peace exist within the Islamic tradition.
*Contents*




1 Perception of Islam
1.1 Western perceptions
1.2 Islamic views on violence
 
2 Islamic sources
2.1 Qur'an
2.2 Jihad
2.2.1 Qur'anic verses in favor of violence
2.2.2 Scholars' comment in favor of Jihad
2.2.3 Hadiths about Jihad
 
2.3 Domestic violence
 
3 Modern violence
3.1 Ayatollah
3.2 Mujahedin
3.3 Taliban
3.4 Saddam Hussein
3.5 Laskar Jihad
3.6 Hezbollah
3.7 Omar al-Bashir
3.8 Wahabbists
 
4 Terrorism
4.1 World domination
 
5 See also
6 References
 *Perception of Islam *

*Western perceptions *

 Sutton and Vertigans describe Western views of Islam as based on a  stereotype of it as an inherently violent religion, characterizing it as  a 'religion of the sword'. They characterize the image of Islam in the  Western world as "dominated by conflict, aggression, 'fundamentalism',  and global-scale violent terrorism."[1]
 Juan Eduardo Campo writes that, "Europeans (have) viewed Islam in  various ways: sometimes as a backward, violent religion; sometimes as an  Arabian Nights fantasy; and sometimes as a complex and changing product  of history and social life."[2]  Robert Gleave writes that, "at the centre of popular conceptions of  Islam as a violent religion are the punishments carried out by regimes  hoping to bolster both their domestic and international Islamic  credentials.[3]
 The 9/11 attack on the US and other[_when?_]  attacks since then associated with people who follow the Islamic faith,  have led many non-Muslims to indict Islam as a violent religion.[4]  According to Corrigan and Hudson, "some conservative Christian leaders  (have) complained that Islam (is) incompatible with what they believed  to be a Christian America."[5] Examples of Christian leaders who have expressed such sentiments include Franklin Graham and Pat Robertson.[6] According to a survey conducted by a research group affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention, two out of three Protestant pastors believe Islam is a "dangerous" religion.[7]
*Islamic views on violence *

 In response to these charges, Ram Puniyani assert that, "Islam does  not condone violence but, like other religions, does believe in  self-defence".[8]
 Mark Juergensmeyer describes the teachings of Islam as ambiguous  about violence. He asserts that, like all religions, Islam occasionally  allows for force while stressing that the main spiritual goal is one of  nonviolence and peace.[9]  Hood, Hill and Spika write that "(a)lthough it would be a mistake to  think that Islam is inherently a violent religion, it would be equally  inappropriate to fail to understand the conditions under which believers  might feel justified in acting violently against those whom their  tradition feels should be opposed."[10]
 Similarly, Chandra Muzaffar asserts that, "(t)he Quranic exposition  on resisting aggression, oppression and injustice lays down the  parameters within which fighting or the use of violence is legitimate.  What this means is that one can use the Quran as the criterion for when  violence is legitimate and when it is not."[11]
*Islamic sources *

*Qur'an *

 Main article: Qur'an and violence
 The Qur'an's teachings on matters of war and peace have become topics  of heated discussion in recent years. On the one hand, some critics  claim that certain verses of the Qur'an sanction military action against  unbelievers as a whole both during the lifetime of Muhammad and after.  The Qur'an says, "Fight in the name of your religion with those who  fight against you."[12] On the other hand, other scholars argue that such verses of the Qur'an are interpreted out of context,[13][14] and argue that when the verses are read in context it clearly appears that the Qur'an prohibits aggression,[15][16][17] and allows fighting only in self-defense.[18][19]
*Jihad *

 Main article: Jihad
_Jihad_, an Islamic term, is a religious duty of Muslims. In Arabic, the word _jih&#257;d_ translates as "struggle". _Jihad_ appears 41 times in the Quran and frequently in the idiomatic expression "striving in the way of Allah _(al-jihad fi sabil Allah)_".[20][21][22]
 Jihad is an important religious duty for Muslims. A minority among the Sunni scholars sometimes refer to this duty as the sixth pillar of Islam, though it occupies no such official status.[23] In Twelver Shi'a Islam, however, Jihad is one of the 10 Practices of the Religion.
 There is controversy regarding the extent of correlation between _jihad_ and violence, and whether some have used confusion over the definition of the term to their advantage.[24]
 Middle East historian Bernard Lewis  argues that "the overwhelming majority of classical theologians,  jurists, and traditionalists (specialists in the hadith) understood the  obligation of jihad in a military sense."[25] Furthermore, Lewis maintains that for most of the recorded history of Islam, from the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad onward, the word jihad was used in a primarily military sense.[26] Although some Islamic scholars have different perspectives on the implementation of Jihad,  there is strong consensus amongst them that the concept of jihad will  always include armed struggle against what they see as persecution and  oppression.[27][28]


*Qur'anic verses in favor of violence *

 Qur'an that claims it is the "clear truth and the best explanation"[Quran 25:33], a revelation that was sent down "to make everything clear"[Quran 16:89] and the eternal word of Allah[Quran 56:80], commands its adherents in chapter no. 47,

 Quran in chapter 9 says,&#8220;Freedom from (all) obligations (is declared) from Allah and His Messenger to those of the Mushrikun _(polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah)_, with whom you made a treaty.[1]
So travel freely (O Mushrikun) for four months (as you will)  throughout the land, but know that you cannot escape (from the  Punishment of) Allah, and Allah will disgrace the disbelievers.[2]

 And a declaration from Allah and His Messenger to mankind on the  greatest day (the 10th of Dhul-Hijjah &#8212; the 12th month of Islamic  calendar) that Allah is free from (all) obligations to the Mushrikun and  so is His Messenger. So if you (Mushrikun) repent, it is better for  you, but if you turn away, then know that you cannot escape (from the  Punishment of) Allah. And give tidings (to Muhammad) of a painful  torment to those who disbelieve.[3]

 Except those of the Mushrikun with whom you have a treaty, and who  have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor have supported anyone  against you. So fulfill their treaty to them to the end of their term.  Surely Allah loves Al- Mattaqun (the pious &#8212; see V.2:2).[4]

 Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of  the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun wherever you  find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each  and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat  (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, then leave their way free. Verily,  Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.[5]

 And if anyone of the Mushrikun (polytheists, idolaters, pagans,  disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) seeks your protection then grant  him protection, so that he may hear the Word of Allah (the Quran), and  then escort him to where he can be secure, that is because they are men  who know not.[6]&#8221;
 &#8212;Muhsin khan translated Quran, verse 9:1-6​&#8220;O you who believe (in Allah's Oneness and in His  Messenger (Muhammad)! Verily, the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans,  idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah, and in the Message of  Muhammad) are Najasun (impure). So let them not come near  Al-Masjid-al-Haram (at Makkah) after this year, and if you fear poverty,  Allah will enrich you if He will, out of His Bounty. Surely, Allah is  All-Knowing, All-Wise. [28] Fight against those who
 (1) believe not in Allah,(2) nor in the Last Day,(3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger(4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam)  among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay  the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. [29] And the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah, and the Christians  say: Messiah is the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths.  They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. Allah's Curse be on  them, how they are deluded away from the truth! [30]&#8221;
 &#8212;Muhsin khan translated Quran, verse 9:28-30​Quran chapter 8 says,&#8220;(Remember) when your Lord inspired the angels,  "Verily, I am with you, so keep firm those who have believed. I will  cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved, so strike  them over the necks, and smite over all their fingers and toes."[12]
This is because they defied and disobeyed Allah and His Messenger. And  whoever defies and disobeys Allah and His Messenger, then verily, Allah  is Severe in punishment.[13]&#8221;
 &#8212;Muhsin khan translated Quran, verse 8:12-13​&#8220;Say to those who have disbelieved, if they cease  (from disbelief) their past will be forgiven. But if they return  (thereto), then the examples of those (punished) before them have  already preceded (as a warning).[38]
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism:  i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will  all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease  (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of  what they do.[39]&#8221;
 &#8212;Muhsin khan translated Quran, verse 8:38-39​In his tafsir, Ibn Kathir, one of the most well-renown Islamic scholars, explains the verses further:&#8220;Allah then commanded fighting the disbelievers when He said:
(...until there is no more Fitnah) meaning, Shirk. This is the  opinion of Ibn `Abbas, Abu Al-`Aliyah, Mujahid, Al-Hasan, Qatadah,  Ar-Rabi`, Muqatil bin Hayyan, As-Suddi and Zayd bin Aslam.

 Allah's statement:
(...and the religion (all and every kind of worship) is for Allah  (Alone).) means, `So that the religion of Allah becomes dominant above  all other religions.' It is reported in the Two Sahihs that Abu Musa  Al-Ash`ari said: "The Prophet was asked, `O Allah's Messenger! A man  fights out of bravery, and another fights to show off, which of them  fights in the cause of Allah' The Prophet said:
(He who fights so that Allah's Word is superior, then he fights in  Allah's cause.) In addition, it is reported in the Two Sahihs:
 (I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight the people until they proclaim,  `None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. Whoever said it, then  he will save his life and property from me, except for cases of the law,  and their account will be with Allah.)&#8221;
 &#8212;Tafsir of Ibn Kathir, The Order to fight until there is no more Fitnah​*Scholars' comment in favor of Jihad *

Imam Al-Suyuti (c. 1445-1505 AD) was a famous Egyptian writer, religious scholar, juristic expert and teacher wrote:&#8220;Fight those who don't believe in God nor in the  Last Day [Unless they believe in the Prophet God bless him and grant him  peace] nor hold what is forbidden that which God and His emissary have  forbidden [e.g., wine] nor embrace the true faith [which is firm, and  abrogates other faiths, i.e., the Islamic religion] from among [for  distinguishing] those who were given the Book [i.e., the Jews and  Christians] unless they give the head-tax [i.e., the annual taxes  imposed on them] (/'an yadin/) humbly submissive, and obedient to  Islam's rule.&#8221;
 &#8212;Suyuti, _Durr al-Manthur_ (Beirut Edition), vol. 3, p. 228​About Jihad, leader of the Afghan Jihad, Abdullah Yusuf Azzam wrote:
&#8220;Jihad Against the Kuffar is of two Types:  Offensive Jihad (where the enemy is attacked in his own territory) ...  [and] Defensive Jihad. This is expelling the Kuffar from our land, and  it is Fard Ayn [personal religious obligation on Muslim individuals], a  compulsory duty upon all ... ...Where the Kuffar [infidels] are not  gathering to fight the Muslims, the fighting becomes Fard Kifaya  [religious obligation on Muslim society] with the minimum requirement of  appointing believers to guard borders, and the sending of an army at  least once a year to terrorise the enemies of Allah. It is a duty of the  Imam (Caliph) to assemble and send out an army unit into the land of  war once or twice every year. Moreover, it is the responsibility of the  Muslim population to assist him, and if he does not send an army he is  in sin.- And the Ulama have mentioned that this type of jihad is for  maintaining the payment of Jizya. The scholars of the principles of  religion have also said: " Jihad is Daw'ah [Islamic preaching] with a  force, and is obligatory to perform with all available capabilities,  until there remains only Muslims or people who submit to Islam.&#8221;
 &#8212;A. Y. Azzam, Offensive Jihad Vs. Defensive Jihad​Shaykh A&#7717;mad Sirhind&#299; (d. 1624) was an Islamic scholar and a  prominent Sufi. He is regarded as having rejuvenated Islam, due to which  he is commonly called "Mujadid Alf Thani", meaning "revival of the  second millennium". He wrote,&#8220;Shariat can be fostered through the sword. Kufr and Islam are opposed to each other. The progress of one is  possible only at the expense of the other and co-existences between  these two contradictory faiths in unthinkable.
 The honor of Islam lies in insulting kufr and kafirs. One who  respects kafirs, dishonors the Muslims. To respect them does not merely  mean honouring them and assigning them a seat of honor in any assembly,  but it also implies keeping company with them or showing considerations  to them. They should be kept at an arm's length like dogs. ... If some  worldly business cannot be performed without them, in that case only a  minimum of contact should be established with them but without taking  them into confidence. The highest Islamic sentiment asserts that it is  better to forego that worldly business and that no relationship should  be established with the kafirs.
 The real purpose in levying jizya on them is to humiliate them to  such an extent that, on account of fear of jizya, they may not be able  to dress well and to live in grandeur. They should constantly remain  terrified and trembling. It is intended to hold them under contempt and  to uphold the honor and might of Islam. . . .
 Whenever a Jew is killed, it is for the benefit of Islam&#8221;
 &#8212;A. Sirhindi, Excerpted from Saiyid  Athar Abbas Rizvi, Muslim Revivalist Movements in Northern India in the  Sixteenth and Seventeenth Centuries (Agra, Lucknow: Agra University,  Balkrishna Book Co., 1965), pp.247-50; and Yohanan Friedmann, Shaykh  Ahmad Sirhindi: An Outline of His Thought and a Study of His Image in the Eyes of Posterity (Montreal, Quebec: McGill University, Institute of Islamic Studies, 1971), pp. 73-74.​*Hadiths about Jihad *
Narrated Anas bin Malik: Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered  to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped  but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla  and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be  sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and  their reckoning will be with Allah." Narrated Maimun ibn Siyah that he  asked Anas bin Malik, "O Abu Hamza! What makes the life and property of a  person sacred?" He replied, "Whoever says, 'None has the right to be  worshipped but Allah', faces our Qibla during the prayers, prays like us  and eats our slaughtered animal, then he is a Muslim, and has got the  same rights and obligations as other Muslims have."
&#8212; Sahih al-Bukhari, 1:8:387 and Sahih al-Bukhari, 1:2:24 see also Sahih Muslim, 1:30,Sahih Muslim, 1:31,Sahih Muslim, 1:32,Sahih Muslim, 1:33,Sahih Muslim, 1:34​On the day of Al-Ahzab (i.e. clans) the Prophet said, (After this  battle) we will go to attack them (i.e. the infidels) and they will not  come to attack us."
&#8212; Sahih al-Bukhari, 5:59:435 see also Sahih Muslim, 19:4294​Narrated Abu Huraira: I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "The example of  a Mujahid in Allah's Cause-- and Allah knows better who really strives  in His Cause----is like a person who fasts and prays continuously. Allah  guarantees that He will admit the Mujahid in His Cause into Paradise if  he is killed, otherwise He will return him to his home safely with  rewards and war booty."
&#8212; Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:46 see also Sahih Muslim, 20:4646​Narrated Anas bin Malik: The Prophet said, "Nobody who dies and finds  good from Allah (in the Hereafter) would wish to come back to this  world even if he were given the whole world and whatever is in it,  except the martyr who, on seeing the superiority of martyrdom, would  like to come back to the world and get killed again (in Allah's Cause)."  Narrated Anas: The Prophet said, "A single endeavor (of fighting) in  Allah's Cause in the afternoon or in the forenoon is better than all the  world and whatever is in it. A place in Paradise as small as the bow or  lash of one of you is better than all the world and whatever is in it.  And if a houri from Paradise appeared to the people of the earth, she  would fill the space between Heaven and the Earth with light and  pleasant scent and her head cover is better than the world and whatever  is in it."
&#8212; Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:53 see also Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:50, Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:54​It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the  Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: One who died but did  not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or  determination) for Jihid died the death of a hypocrite. 'Abdullah b.  Mubarak said: We think the hadith pertained to the time of the Messenger  of Allah (may peace be upon him)
&#8212; Sahih Muslim, 20:4696 see also Sahih Muslim, 20:4631, Sahih Muslim, 20:4634, Sahih Muslim, 20:4635​A man whose face was covered with an iron mask (i.e. clad in armor)  came to the Prophet and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Shall I fight or  embrace Islam first? "The Prophet said, "Embrace Islam first and then  fight." So he embraced Islam, and was martyred. Allah's Apostle said, A  Little work, but a great reward. "(He did very little (after embracing  Islam), but he will be rewarded in abundance)."
&#8212; Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:63 see also Sahih Muslim, 20:4639​Narrated 'Abdullah bin Abi Aufa: Allah's Apostle said, "Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords."
&#8212; Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:73 see also Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:72​Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Somebody asked, "O Allah's Apostle! Who  is the best among the people?" Allah's Apostle replied "A believer who  strives his utmost in Allah's Cause with his life and property." They  asked, "Who is next?" He replied, "A believer who stays in one of the  mountain paths worshipping Allah and leaving the people secure from his  mischief."
&#8212; Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:45 see also Sahih Muslim, 20:4652,Sahih Muslim, 20:4653​Narrated Abu Musa: A man came to the Prophet and asked, "A man fights  for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing  off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet said, "He who  fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in  Allah's Cause."
&#8212; Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:65 see also Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:48​Narrated Abu Huraira: A man came to Allah's Apostle and said,  "Instruct me as to such a deed as equals Jihad (in reward)." He replied,  "I do not find such a deed." Then he added, "Can you, while the Muslim  fighter is in the battle-field, enter your mosque to perform prayers  without cease and fast and never break your fast?" The man said, "But  who can do that?" Abu- Huraira added, "The Mujahid (i.e. Muslim fighter)  is rewarded even for the footsteps of his horse while it wanders bout  (for grazing) tied in a long rope."
&#8212; Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:44 see also Sahih Muslim, 19:4315, Sahih Muslim, 19:4314​*Domestic violence *

 Main article: Islam and domestic violence
 The relationship between *Islam and domestic violence* is disputed. These ideas are vaguely justified with reference to the Qur'an, in one Surah, An-Nisa, 34,  which discusses forms of beating in certain circumstances. Some of the  scholars allowing "beating" stress that it is a last resort,  discountenanced, and must be done lightly so much so not to cause pain  or injury.[29]
*Modern violence *





  This section *may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards*. No cleanup reason has been specified. Please help improve this section if you can. _(June 2011)_    See also: Criticism of Islam
 According to Islamic scholar Khaleel Mohammed,  throughout the world, Muslim intellectuals are punished for criticizing  various aspects of traditional and contemporary Islam, citing the case  of Muhammad Said al-Ashmawy, who is being held in Egypt under house arrest for his own protection; Abdel Karim Soroush who was beaten in Iran for raising the voice of inquiry, and Mahmoud Tahawho was killed in Sudan. Rifat Hassan, Fatima Mernissi, Abdallah an-Na'im, Mohammed Arkoun, and Amina Wadud were all vilified by the imams for asking Muslims to use their intellect.[30]
 Other examples:


Hashem Aghajari,  an Iranian university professor, was initially sentenced to death  because of a speech that criticized some of the present Islamic  practices in Iran being in contradiction with the original practices and  ideology of Islam, and particularly for stating that Muslims were not  "monkeys" and "should not blindly follow" the clerics. The sentence was  later commuted to three years in jail, and he was released in 2004 after  serving two years of that sentence.[31][32][33]
 

Christoph Luxenberg feels compelled to work under a pseudonym to protect himself because of fears that a new book on the origins of the Qur'an,[34][35] may make him a target for violence.[36][37] he goes/went by this assumed name in order to protect himself.[38]
 

In recent times fatwas calling for execution have been issued against novelist Salman Rushdie and activist Taslima Nasreen for pejorative comments on Islam.[39]
On 2 November 2004, Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh was assassinated by Dutch-born Mohammed Bouyeri for producing the 10-minute film _Submission_ critical of the abusive treatment of women by Muslims. A letter threatening the author of the screenplay, Ayaan Hirsi Ali,  was pinned to his body by a knife. Hirsi Ali entered into hiding  immediately following the assassination, and now is protected by  bodyguards.[40]
 

On 30 September 2005, the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten published editorial cartoons,  many of which caricatured the Islamic prophet Mohammed. The publication  was intended to contribute to the debate regarding criticism of Islam  and self-censorship;[41]  objectives which manifested themselves in the public outcry from Muslim  communities within Denmark and the subsequent apology by the paper.  However, the controversy deepened when further examples of the cartoons  were reprinted in newspapers in more than fifty other countries.  This led to protests across the Muslim world, some of which escalated  into violence, including setting fire to the Norwegian and Danish  Embassies in Syria, and the storming of European buildings and  desecration of the Danish and German flags in Gaza City.[42] Globally, at least 139 people were killed and 823 injured.[43]
 

On 19 September 2006 French writer and philosophy teacher Robert Redeker wrote an editorial for _Le Figaro_,  a French conservative newspaper, in which he attacked Islam and  Muhammad, writing: "Pitiless war leader, pillager, butcher of Jews and  polygamous, this is how Mohammed is revealed by the Qur'an." He received  death threats and went into hiding.[44]  The teacher was forced into hiding after describing the Qu'ran as a  "book of extraordinary violence" and Islam as "a religion which ...  exalts violence and hate."[45]
 

On 4 August 2007, Ehsan Jami was attacked in his hometown of Voorburg in The Netherlands by three men. The attack is widely believed to be linked to his activities for the Central Committee for Ex-Muslims.  The national anti-terrorism coordinator's office, the public  prosecution department and the police decided during a meeting on 6  August that "additional measures" were necessary for the protection of  Jami, who subsequently received extra security.[46]
 "Hatred towards people who follow other religions such as Jews and  Christians, as well as Hindus and other polytheists, are a part of the  teachings of the Islamic holy book, the Qur'an."[47]


----------



## Beachboy

*Ayatollah *

 "Perhaps the most resounding call to jihad in modern times occurred on 21 January 1979," suggest authors, as the Ayatollah Khomeini announced a Jihad against the US. "The people have absolute confidence in their victory in this holy war (jihad-e moqaddas)," said the Islamic icon.[48]
Ayatollah Khomeini's "Radical Islamic Revolution executed and killed hundreds of thousands of people in the name of Radical Islam."[49]
Iran, under the Ayatollah Khomeini, categorized the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq war as a 'Holy war'.[50] "Khomeini's call to jihad incited thousands of Iranian teenagers to volunteer for martyrdom missions."[48] The Basiji movement 'created' child and adult sacrifice as "holy soldiers,"[51] Blessed by Iranian mullahs' regime.[52]
 The Basiji ideology enjoys a revival under Iran's president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad,[51] who is a member.[53]   The movement has a nominal strength of 12.6 million, and has been   present in schools since it was first created in 1979 by the Ayatollah.[54] Basijis were used in crackdowns in 1999, in 2003[55] and in the brutality of 2009 on protesters in Iran.[56]
 The group demands in training intense Quran   studies, it calls for Basij Ethics and Etiquette and Major Islamic   Commandments. The Basijis have been known to act in defending a strict   Islamic conduct."[57] and enforcing Sharia law.[58] often "merging" with Ansar-e Hezbollah men in enforcing Sharia law.[55] In one example, Human rights   activists charged that Basiji Islamic militiamen have raped and   murdered 26 year old Elnaz Babazadeh for wearing an improper dress.[59]
 On 19 August 1979 the Ayatollah declared a jihad against the Kurds in Iran. "Once jihad is declared, all males over 15 must join the fight, the enemy's property is open to confiscation."[60]
 "Ayatollah Khomeini played on the messianic overtones of this belief   during the Iranian revolution." The ideology of "Twelver" in Shiite   Islam (return of the 12th Imam  belief) was invoked by many who   believed that the Ayatollah will "return" as their Mahdi (Islamic Messiah). Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad   refocuses this belief of the Mahdi's return by public statements and   various symbolic actions, Iraq's Shiite al-Sadr's army is called the Mahdi army.[61]
*Mujahedin *

 In 1979 Afghanistan, local Muslim rebels began fighting the Soviets army, calling themselves Mujahideen, they used guerrilla war.[62]
 Author of the book _Holy war_ Wilhelm Dietl accounted how one Mujahed fighter told him en route to an armed attack in Herat: "We love to kill Russians and to be killed."[63]
*Taliban *

 Some of the Taliban have fought against the Soviets in the 1980s. They battle to conquer the country.[64] Many Madrassas endorse Jihad in Pakistan and in Afghanistan.[65]
 In the 1980s, the _Afghan jihad_ had been financed by Saudi Arabia[66] as well as other countries including the United States of America.[_citation needed_]
*Saddam Hussein *

Saddam Hussein warned of a jihad against the United States in 1991.[67]   In 2003, after the March 20 US, British led invasion of Iraq, Saddam   Hussein called for a holy war against "an aggression on the land of   Islam." (invoking the Quranic theme: "Fight them everywhere...")[68]   The statement accused the coalition forces of waging a war against   Islam. His information Minister conlcuding: "Therefore, jihad is a duty   in confronting them... Those who are martyred will be rewarded in   heaven. Seize the opportunity, my brothers."[69]
*Laskar Jihad *

 The paramilitary organisation Laskar Jihad called "to wage a jihad or holy war" into Indonesia's Moluccan islands, and carried out anti-Christian attacks in Sulawesi,[70] the same group was involved in the 1999 violence against Christians and Chinese[71] in East Timor.[72] It has been categorized as "Indonesia's Dirty Little Holy War Holy Terror.[70]
*Hezbollah *

Hezbollah's spiritual guidance, Sheik Muhammed Hussein Fadlallah, who witnessing journalist says was behind the hostage crisis in Lebanon in the 1980s,[73] said: "We see ourselves as _mujihadeen_ who fight a Holy War." Justifying bombings, kidnapping, murder.[74]
 However British journalist Robert Fisk disputes these claims about Fadlallh:The Americans put it about that he had blessed the suicide bomber who   struck the US marine base in Beirut in 1983, killing 241 service   personnel. Fadlallah always denied this to me and I believe him. Suicide   bombers, however insane we regard them, don't need to be blessed; they   think they are doing God's duty without any help from a marja like   Fadlallah.​[75]
*Omar al-Bashir *

 "In the present conflict in Darfur, jihad is usually interpreted as holy war by the government in Khartoum."[76] The Sudanese National Islamic Front declared in 1992 a _jihad,_ or holy war, against all in the Nuba Mountains who supported the SPLA."[77][78]
Sudan's leader Omar Al-Bashir, in 1997 "declared a jihad (holy war) against" Ethiopia.[79] Accused of genocide he threatened in 2007 "to mount a jihad against United Nations peacekeepers."[80]
*Wahabbists *

 The Whabbists have a long history of fundamentalism and jihad,   declaring holy wars on others, to force them into accepting their   purified version of Islam[81]
 In 2010, a 'Glut of fatwas spurred Saudi king to impose curbs,' Saudi   political analyst explaining: "If you endorse jihad, it means you are   searching for a war with the rest of the world."[82]
 Some militant Islamic movements cite Saudi Wahhabi clerics to justify violence.[83]
 Saudi Grand Mufti Ibn Baz repudiated violence. He stated:From that which is known to everyone who has the slightest bit of   common sense is that hijacking airplanes and kidnapping children and the   like are extremely great crimes, the world over. Their evil effects  are  far and wide, as is the great harm and inconvenience caused to the   innocent; the total effect of which none can comprehend except Allaah.​[84]
*Terrorism *

 Main article: Islam and terrorism
*Islamic terrorism* is terrorism[85] committed by Islamists, and aimed at achieving varying political ends[86] and the advancement of Islamist goals; for example, Osama bin Laden's stated goal of ending American military presence in the Middle East and the Arabian Peninsula,[87][87] overthrowing Arab regimes he considers corrupt and insufficiently religious,[87] and stopping American support for Israel.[88] Bombing in London 7/7 are said to be in retaliation for UK's support in the war in Iraq that began in 2003, though it can't be linked as a motive for Islamic terror plots on London, December, 2001.[89][90] The Islamic terrorism   attack in Madrid were "explained" as "inspired by al-Qaeda's call to   punish Spain's government for supporting the Iraq war," another motive   was given that Spain holds a strong appeal to Islamic militants because   the southern region of Andalucia was under Muslim control for almost  800  years, and "Al-Qaeda has called on jihadists to reconquer Spain as  part  of a broader Muslim caliphate, or kingdom under Islamic rule."[91][92]
 At the 2008 Mumbai attacks, the Islamic terrorists were told by their handlers in Pakistan "that the lives of Jews were worth 50 times those of non-Jews."[93]
 The Qur'an: (8:12): "...cast terror in their hearts and strike upon their necks."[94] The _commanded to terrorize the disbelievers_ have been cited in motivation of Jihadi terror.[95][96][97][98]
 A Jihadi cleric:"Another aim and objective of jihad is to  drive terror in the hearts  of the [infidels]. To terrorize them. Did  you know that we were  commanded in the Qur'an with terrorism? ...Allah  said, and prepare for  them to the best of your ability with power, and  with horses of war. To  drive terror in the hearts of my enemies,  Allah's enemies, and your  enemies. And other enemies which you don't  know, only Allah knows  them... So we were commanded to drive terror  into the hearts of the  [infidels], to prepare for them with the best of  our abilities with  power. Then the Prophet said, nay, the power is  your ability to shoot.  The power which you are commanded with here, is  your ability to shoot.  Another aim and objective of jihad is to kill  the [infidels], to lessen  the population of the [infidels]... it is not  right for a Prophet to  have captives until he makes the Earth warm  with blood... so, you should  always seek to lessen the population of  the [infidels]."[99]​Observers have also argued that the attacks are aimed at propagating Islamic culture, society and values in opposition to perceived political, imperialistic, and/or cultural influences of non-Muslims, and the Western world in particular.[100][101]
 There are also historical dimensions to the phenomenon, and the history of Western influence and control after the fall of the Ottoman Empire   in 1918, is a common stated reason used within some terrorist groups  to  justify and explain its use of violence as resistive and retributive   against western influences.
*World domination *

 The strive to an 'Islamic Caliphate.' Caliph is translated from the Arabic *Khalifa* (&#1582;&#1604;&#1610;&#1601;&#1577; &#7830;al&#299;fä) meaning "successor", "substitute", or "lieutenant". It is used in the Qur'an to establish Adam's role as representative of Allah on earth. Kalifa is also used to describe the belief that man's role, in his real nature, is as khalifa or viceroy to Allah.[102] The word is also most commonly used for the Islamic leader of the Ummah; starting with Muhammad and his line of successors.
 Indeed, domination is the ultimate goal of jihadists.[103][104] Al-Qaeda revealed its grand plan towards an Islamic caliphate,[105] - global domination.[106] Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's Al-Qaeda in Iraq, has released a statement in which it explains the reasons for its terror campaign:"We are not fighting to chase out the occupier or to save national   unity and keep the borders outlined by the infidels intact," [...] "We   are fighting because it is a religious duty to do it, just as it is a   duty to take the Sharia [Islamic law] to the government and create an   Islamic state."[107]​"Al-Qaeda has called on jihadists to reconquer Spain as part of a broader Muslim caliphate, or kingdom under Islamic rule."[91] Explaining why even Hamas has an eye on Spain.[92] In the early 1990s, the GIA   Algerian Armed Islamist Group, which is "well known for its radical   positions and the barbaric violence of its operations, announced the   restoration of the caliphate and the appointment of a caliph."[108] With Palestinian Islamic party Hamas victory in the 2007 election, a mass gathering followed with Hamas' spokesman calling for a Caliphate.[109] The official said Hamas seeks to create an "Islamic caliphate" in the land.[110][111]


----------



## PoliticalStench

Pogo said:


> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, you're bailing out because you got busted.  I didn't bring up anybody's intelligence; I asked you to back up your post, and you can't do it.  And now you're running away.
> 
> As I said, don't be coming in here unarmed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love it. LOL! Your mind is so closed that you can't see how your attitude would be off-putting, but because I didn't give you what you wanted, I backed off  off due to your "busting" skills, according to you. Far from it. I got a whiff of your attitude and folded my arms.
> 
> Never said you USED the word intelligence. C-O-M-P-R-E-H-E-N-S-I-O-N.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now you're just trolling.  Fact is you made a claim and when it was challenged you bailed.  You can't answer, because there isn't one.  You painted yourself into a corner.  I called your bluff and you lost.
> 
> See ya, loser.
Click to expand...


Aww. Wah-wah.  You think  I'm a troll and a loser... Name calling... not surprised.  My arguments don't qualify me as either. I just refuse to jump when you demand.  Have a nice, misguided life.


----------



## PoliticalStench

Luddly Neddite said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islam is the scourge of mankind.  There is nothing legitimate about a so-called religion that calls on it's followers to kill their fellow man.  What kind of sick sonofabitch defends that kind of perversion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Christians.
> 
> I've heard it said that Islam now is where Christianity was during Inquisition.
Click to expand...



Men are the number one cause of war.  Islam now? Islam has been like this for centuries.


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## PoliticalStench

Luddly Neddite said:


> Muslims are not our enemy.
> 
> Terrorists are.
> 
> Period.



Why don't more Muslims speak out against terrorism and get rid of the radicalizing imams from among them?


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## PoliticalStench

Esmeralda said:


> actsnoblemartin said:
> 
> 
> 
> christians are annoying, but they arent blowing themselves up, cutting off people's heads and committing the vast majority of terrorism worldwide.
> 
> now, calm down p.c. police dont get your panties in a wad i didnt say all but enough thats its a damn problem
> 
> when was the last time a christian said, the bible said verse and chapter thats jesus gave me permission to murder my daughter for sleeping with her bf, for honor (sarcasm)
> 
> or i can beat my wife cause the bible says so
> 
> or jesus said the abortion clinic was ok to bomb
> 
> even the bullshit about timothy mcveigh
> 
> i swear the p.c. drivel coming out of your some of your mouths convinces me you couldnt
> 
> rub two brains cells together if you tried
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about the American soldiers in Iraq who raped and murdered an Iraqi girl, and murdered her whole family?  Do you think that kind of thing is an isolated incident?
Click to expand...


Yes, it's isolated...rare. OR else every soldier in the four branches of the military would be doing it. It's not US policy. But doing harm to the infidel is policy of the Islamists. It's in their handbook.


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## PoliticalStench

Katzndogz said:


> It all goes back to the liberal opinion that muslims have an absolute right to kill, blow things up and behead people walking down the street because they are fighting Christians, a common enemy of liberals.   Americans, British, Swedish, French, the whole of the west should accept being murdered by muslims (who are really liberal footsoldiers, lacking the fortitude to do it themselves), as pennance for alleged crimes done 1,000 years ago.
> 
> If that's not good enough, western nations are also trying to stop muslims from killing people TODAY, that that, to liberals might be a greater crime.



I took issue with your comment about Paris Jackson's suicide attempt, but the above is thought provoking. I've never heard the subject approached this way before.


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## Pogo

PoliticalStench said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love it. LOL! Your mind is so closed that you can't see how your attitude would be off-putting, but because I didn't give you what you wanted, I backed off  off due to your "busting" skills, according to you. Far from it. I got a whiff of your attitude and folded my arms.
> 
> Never said you USED the word intelligence. C-O-M-P-R-E-H-E-N-S-I-O-N.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you're just trolling.  Fact is you made a claim and when it was challenged you bailed.  You can't answer, because there isn't one.  You painted yourself into a corner.  I called your bluff and you lost.
> 
> See ya, loser.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Aww. Wah-wah.  You think  I'm a troll and a loser... Name calling... not surprised.  My arguments don't qualify me as either. I just refuse to jump when you demand.  Have a nice, misguided life.
Click to expand...


I had to jump back to post 428 to find out what in the blue fuck you're talking about.

But there it is:


Pogo said:


> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> The above picture solidifies why most Americans are stupid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See, this is what I think Barack Obama thinks.  There is a distinct ugliness in those who think they are intellectually superior.  Snobbery from the poster who condemns others for not being more accepting. But then again, it's suspect when someone says they've had problems in dealing with Christians but praise Muslims, when we're all human and fallible.  Suspect indeed. I've had problems in dealing with all sorts of people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nobody's "praised" Muslims here; in fact nobody's said squat about Muslims or Islam except for the bigot in the OP and a couple of his peanut gallery, all wallowing in negative stereotypes.
> 
> Where do you see this "praise" then?
Click to expand...


A question you *still *can't answer -- and then you bring it up _*again *_ to highlight your own dishonesty.

Man.  Can't make this shit up.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

PoliticalStench said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims are not our enemy.
> 
> Terrorists are.
> 
> Period.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't more Muslims speak out against terrorism and *get rid of the radicalizing imams* from among them?
Click to expand...


And how exactly do you propose a given country with a sizable or majority Muslim population get rid of them? 

Death camps? 

Exile? 

A bullet to the back of the head? 

Youre advocating Muslims opposed to terrorism commit acts of terror against those who are innocent of any crime as a means to end terrorism.


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## PoliticalStench

Kondor3 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is one complication with such a simplistic and starry-eyed outlook...
> 
> *Islam encourages its adherents to wage Holy War* and to come to the defense of all their co-religionists under a variety of conditions and circumstances, including simple criticism of its precepts and practices and its founder.
> 
> *No other surviving mainstream religion contains such enjoinders* which remain operative on a broad-spectrum basis across their domains.
> 
> This difference renders Islam far more susceptible to use as a Spiritual Rationalization to wage war and to kill and to commit violence than its counterparts across the globe.
> 
> This, in turn, serves to present Islam as a Poison Pill and Warrior's Creed and Political System to the rest of the world, in the guise of a so-called Religion of Peace.
> 
> Your words are seductively attractive, and all people of goodwill are likely to wish that this was true, but the Realists of the world realize that there is something not-quite-right with that blanket statement.
> 
> Or so it seems to this observer...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the same tired BS argument over and over and over and over and over.  We've heard it for years: "when _*they *_do it they're following their book; when _*we *_do it it's some wackaloon _not _following the book".  You guys want it both ways: *we *collectively aren't responsible for a few deviants but *they * collectively are.  That argument has never been valid, and doesn't fix itself by getting repeating it over and over.
> 
> You can run the same bad play out on the field again and again; it's still a bad play and it's still going to fail.  What is it they say about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?
> 
> It's the same argument as "well, _*my *_religion is 'the one true faith'" (pronounced by each one).   Sure it is.  Mine is too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, Pogo, it's true I'm afraid.
> 
> When Christendom goes to war, it does so in* violation o*f the precepts taught by its Founder.
> 
> When Islam goes to war, it does in in *accordance with* the precepts taught by its Founder.
> 
> Big difference.
> 
> There exist a fair number of people of goodwill who are so deeply committed to Religious Tolerance across the board and in treating all belief systems equally that they are blinded to the differences and the resultant risks and dangers and susceptibilities.
> 
> We perceive this differently and I will have to be content with that.
Click to expand...


I'm not saying all wars fought by "Christian" nations were just, but Jesus didn't tell his followers not to defend themselves. My former pastor (I moved) is a gun owner and will defend his home if a criminal enters.  If some threat is encroaching, it doesn't mean you just let it trample you.  The ancient Israelites fought wars.


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## PoliticalStench

Pogo said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> "...That was addressed to Jeremiah, not you..."
> 
> 
> 
> Given that I was the 'exchange' just before that one...
> 
> And your use of the phrase '*another* nolo contendre'...
> 
> I automatically deduced that *I* was the *other* one...
> 
> Perhaps I was wrong...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No no, "another" means both in the general population of message boarding NCs (such as that one-day wonder yesterday in this same thread) as well as "another" NC from Jeri (in others).
> 
> You though, I have faith in to follow up.  You're in a higher uh, caste.
Click to expand...


What are you...five years old?


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

antiquity said:


> I oppose any immigration bill that doesn't secure the border first and fails to punishes any employer who hires illegals for any reason.
> Another point, actually two points, one* put a hold on anyone from a Muslim society for at least five years* and two....stop educational visas for Chinese students. Seem there is strong evidence that students from China after they return to China after getting high tech education in computer science are using it to attack both commercial and government military sites in the US.



What constitutes a Muslim society? 

What constitutes a hold? They wait at the airport for five years? 

How would you determine if someone is Muslim? Ask them? Make them show you their Muslim papers? By the way he looks? 

Are you aware that being Muslim is a terrible way to determine if someone is going to commit an act of terror? 

This is the problem with most conservatives: they fail to think things through, likely as a consequence of their fear and ignorance.


----------



## PoliticalStench

Esmeralda said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> actsnoblemartin said:
> 
> 
> 
> christians are annoying, but they arent blowing themselves up, cutting off people's heads and committing the vast majority of terrorism worldwide.
> 
> now, calm down p.c. police dont get your panties in a wad i didnt say all but enough thats its a damn problem
> 
> when was the last time a christian said, the bible said verse and chapter thats jesus gave me permission to murder my daughter for sleeping with her bf, for honor (sarcasm)
> 
> or i can beat my wife cause the bible says so
> 
> or jesus said the abortion clinic was ok to bomb
> 
> even the bullshit about timothy mcveigh
> 
> i swear the p.c. drivel coming out of your some of your mouths convinces me you couldnt
> 
> rub two brains cells together if you tried
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Westboro protest dead soldiers..
> 
> Christ soldiers kill abortion doctors..
> 
> KKK still burn crosses on lawn...
> 
> KKK is a terrorist group..
> 
> Christians have justified murder using the devil, hence the popularity of "the devil made me do it."
> 
> Want more examples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We could definitely say the KKK and White Surpremiscists are Christian Terrorists, and they have been operating in recent times, and still do their dirty work. They have killed, tortured and terrorized people for well over a hundred years in America, in the  name of the Bible which they claim states black people are the devil.  And fundamentalist Christians think they have a right to kill OBGYNs who also perform abortions.  Christians simply cannot claim they are all peaceful and it's the Other religion that is all bad.
Click to expand...


Aren't you the one who threatened to report someone for stating you wrote something you didn't?  Then why do you generalize when it comes to fundamentalist Christians? Do you know that those people were actually Christians? Or maybe they just thought they were. I thought I was until I found out I wasn't. Bombing clinics and killing docs are *not *the way of Christ.    Just because someones says they are a Christian doesn't make it so. How does the Bible describe  becoming a Christian? Would Jesus recognize those KKK members? Does the Bible tell these men to do what they do?  *NO.* But the Koran commands that harm be done to infidels. 

What those men do as so-called "Christians" is in contradiction to the Bible. Harming infidels doesn't contradict the Koran. 

How do you feel about doctors who yank living children out of wombs and murder them...since you're on the subject?


----------



## PoliticalStench

beagle9 said:


> You love to put all Christians in one nice little box don't you, yet why is this, so you can hope to defeat them all in this way or in one fail swoop?  As you see we have dealt with our own over time, but I can't say that for other groups to have actually done that, and I don't think that you can either.. Martin Luther King new that their was bad in his people, just like there is bad in all people who gather in a group based on many things, so this is why he made that famous speech in which said in part, *that he longed for a day that a man would be judged not upon the color of his skin, but instead upon the content of his character". *It was true and is still true to this day, so what are you trying to achieve with your blanketing attempt at singling out a group name, as if it isn't just like many groups or people that have many characters within such groups, so this is to achieve what again ? Why not take a look at the groups whom won't out their bad, when many of the others will ? You speak of the KKK, when the white people are the ones who actually defeated them by outing them, and even at the cost of their own lives at times. Problem today is we have groups whom want to call themselves Americans, but won't out those who are undermining this nation from behind their group's identity, and this is a problem in this nation now, and even all over the world maybe.



You are correct that whites against slavery and pro civil rights (a number of them Christian) were helpful in turning things around in the US. Some of them were beaten, murdered and risked their lives during the civil rights freedom rides and black voter registration. 

Curious: I've heard some things but does anyone know how some non-black Muslims feel about black Muslims?


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## PoliticalStench

Meathead said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those of us who accept the past as a part of ourselves and our human commonality realize that the terrorism we see today is the same type of behavior that has been visited upon others by those we consider our people, our antecedents.  We realize that all of humanity has done heinous things, that such things are not limited to any one culture, ethnic group, religion, nationality , gender, etc.  You can pretend all you want that the past does not matter, but it does. Fortunately, not all people believe as you do, hopefully, not most.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds very much like a weak justification for terrorism. Of course the past matters, but most cultures and peoples are able to move on. I don't see the Vietnamese flying planes into US skyscrapers although they certainly would have far more justification than the Islamist swamp you champion.
Click to expand...


I don't know that all Vietnamese would feel that way. Don't know that all of them were happy with the murdering communists either. I worked with a woman who is from Vietnam but Chinese. It wasn't a picnic for her family in Vietnam. She was happy to leave and for her family to eventually make their way to the US. She's been a dentist for years and owns a practice with her husband.   I appreciate your argument.


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## PoliticalStench

Beachboy said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, another one misses the point.  I read 'The Profit' when I was a young liberal.  In fact I leafed through it the other day which is why I brought it into this thread.
> 
> We live in a world of hard-ball politics.  We always have.  In the real world it is called "an eye for an eye."  It is now an everyday occurrence.  If you want the key to civilization read world history.  Save Gilbran for your casual fiction reading.
> 
> Time for me to quote Winston Churchill, AGAIN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Might wanna check where the quote "an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth" comes from, as well as what the people (Jews) who wrote that quote actually meant by it.
> 
> An eye for an eye means that if you injure someone and incapacitate them from doing their work, you have to compensate them for not only the injury that you brought upon them, but, if say...............they used their eyes as part of their livelihood, you had an obligation to pay for the work that they have lost as a result of that injury.
> 
> It's not quite the bloodthirsty idea that you think it is.
> 
> And by the way.....................the title is "The PROPHET", not "The Profit".  I don't think his main reason for writing that book was to make money, as much as it was a statement on what Gilbran thought of the way people treated each other.  Might wanna look into him being considered a rebel by many of the Muslim world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The answer to you post on an "eye for an eye" is so obvious, I am not going to address it.
> 
> "The ProfEt" is not worth the paper it is printed on, when it comes to solving *real world* problems.  If you like fiction, fine.  But, keep it out of the political threads.
> 
> Why am I not surprised that you are hung up on things not of this world?  Did you even look to see what the subject of this thread is before you posted?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know what reality is when you see it?  Is anything getting through the bubble you live in?​
Click to expand...


Thank you for posting the pictures of the radicals and their posters that let the world know who they are. More freedom loving people need to see that.  "Freedom go to hell?" What a foolish, suicidal person. And his or her face is covered...probably afraid of losing welfare bennies. 

I say the US should deport all and slowly allow those back in who aren't freedom- hating-rabid-death-cult-*zombies*. Those British butchers and the Tsarnaev killers are proof that citizens and residents can be *turned*. It seems the rules have changed.


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## PoliticalStench

Beachboy said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet more paranoid, ignorant, bigoted, nonsense.
> 
> How exactly would you go about declassifying Islam as a religion no longer subject to First Amendment protections. Would you then move forward to pass legislation making the practicing of Islam illegal. What would be the penalty for the crime of being Muslim.
> 
> Again, what you and others of your ilk are advocating is the true terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> Wait a minute now, so they have mass killed Americans, and have set off an IED explosive in a marathon in Boston, tried to knock down the twin towers from below, then hit them up high next, then we have the underwear bomber, the shoe bomber, Hason at Fort Hood, the USS Cole, the marine barracks in Lebanon and on and on it all goes, but some how Americans are the terrorist now for wanting to free themselves from such violence and war, and this by offering such people a way out, if it is their intent to kill while they are here because of their orders of belief in which they have to abide by ?
> 
> This is a serious situation, and it angers me.  When you read this thread it is clear that Muslims and out-of-touch liberals hide behind freedom of religion for blowing up our country.  It would be funny if there was not so much death involved.  Americans like yourself realize there is a real threat here, and American lives have been lost.
> Figures !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Last week in a news conference President Obama said he was going to really crank up the domestic terrorist budget.  These Muslims somehow think they can come into this forum, make lots of noise about human rights, and we are just going to let them off the hook.
> 
> We can't trust Muslims, they are tribal barbarians who will do anything they can to steal the lifestyle America has built, and get rid of us.  Americans have been far too generous with these psychotic animals.  Looks like we are going to try the Russian approach, "Treat Muslims like cattle, and keep them on a short leash."*  Problem solved.
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is clear what Muslims think.  Islam says kill Americans and Jews.
> Have you ever heard an apology or even sympathy from them for American dead?
> Of course not.  What you see is what we get.  It is time to realize that "Muslims are a cancer."
> The only way to stop cancer is to cut it allout.
> *​
Click to expand...


When it comes to the Prez, I go by actions, not words. Some doctor in the future may discover that he was severely allergic to the truth. Better find out Obama's definition of a terrorist because he hasn't been saying Islamic terrorism in his speeches. He won't utter the words: War on terror. He says Al Quaeda is on the run.  He's more of an appeaser, imo. Considering recent history, his idea of a terrorist may be tea party members, Jews who support Israel and pro-life groups. Are Islamist terrorist his enemies or people in his own country who dare to oppose what he supports?


----------



## PoliticalStench

Pogo said:


> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you're just trolling.  Fact is you made a claim and when it was challenged you bailed.  You can't answer, because there isn't one.  You painted yourself into a corner.  I called your bluff and you lost.
> 
> See ya, loser.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aww. Wah-wah.  You think  I'm a troll and a loser... Name calling... not surprised.  My arguments don't qualify me as either. I just refuse to jump when you demand.  Have a nice, misguided life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I had to jump back to post 428 to find out what in the blue fuck you're talking about.
> 
> But there it is:
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> See, this is what I think Barack Obama thinks.  There is a distinct ugliness in those who think they are intellectually superior.  Snobbery from the poster who condemns others for not being more accepting. But then again, it's suspect when someone says they've had problems in dealing with Christians but praise Muslims, when we're all human and fallible.  Suspect indeed. I've had problems in dealing with all sorts of people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nobody's "praised" Muslims here; in fact nobody's said squat about Muslims or Islam except for the bigot in the OP and a couple of his peanut gallery, all wallowing in negative stereotypes.
> 
> Where do you see this "praise" then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A question you *still *can't answer -- and then you bring it up _*again *_ to highlight your own dishonesty.
> 
> Man.  Can't make this shit up.
Click to expand...


I've told you why I didn't answer your question several times. You still calling me dishonest because I chose not to answer a question due to your snotty, self-important attitude is in itself dishonest and childishness. 
Your willingness to continually stoop to juvenile name calling diminishes any sense that may miraculously appear in your misguided arguments. 

Have a nice day, pumpkin. Call me all the names you want. You'll be talking to yourself.


----------



## PoliticalStench

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims are not our enemy.
> 
> Terrorists are.
> 
> Period.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't more Muslims speak out against terrorism and *get rid of the radicalizing imams* from among them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And how exactly do you propose a given country with a sizable or majority Muslim population get rid of them?
> 
> Death camps?
> 
> Exile?
> 
> A bullet to the back of the head?
> 
> Youre advocating Muslims opposed to terrorism commit acts of terror against those who are innocent of any crime as a means to end terrorism.
Click to expand...


Obsessed with violence much? Shun them. Denounce them. Stop listening to, reading, and circulating their hate sermons and literature.. Put so much pressure on them within the community that they exile themselves.  The silence is deafening. Are they out numbered and out gunned by the radicals and are afraid or do many of them agree with at least part of what the radicals believe?


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## Pogo

PoliticalStench said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aww. Wah-wah.  You think  I'm a troll and a loser... Name calling... not surprised.  My arguments don't qualify me as either. I just refuse to jump when you demand.  Have a nice, misguided life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had to jump back to post 428 to find out what in the blue fuck you're talking about.
> 
> But there it is:
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody's "praised" Muslims here; in fact nobody's said squat about Muslims or Islam except for the bigot in the OP and a couple of his peanut gallery, all wallowing in negative stereotypes.
> 
> Where do you see this "praise" then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A question you *still *can't answer -- and then you bring it up _*again *_ to highlight your own dishonesty.
> 
> Man.  Can't make this shit up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've told you why I didn't answer your question several times. You still calling me dishonest because I chose not to answer a question due to your snotty, self-important attitude is in itself dishonest and childishness.
> Your willingness to continually stoop to juvenile name calling diminishes any sense that may miraculously appear in your misguided arguments.
> 
> Have a nice day, pumpkin. Call me all the names you want. You'll be talking to yourself.
Click to expand...


You don't need to tell me; I knew before I asked.  You can't, because you talked you talked yourself into a corner.  The weird thing is you're too much of a pissant to just admit it.


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## Pogo

PoliticalStench said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Might wanna check where the quote "an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth" comes from, as well as what the people (Jews) who wrote that quote actually meant by it.
> 
> An eye for an eye means that if you injure someone and incapacitate them from doing their work, you have to compensate them for not only the injury that you brought upon them, but, if say...............they used their eyes as part of their livelihood, you had an obligation to pay for the work that they have lost as a result of that injury.
> 
> It's not quite the bloodthirsty idea that you think it is.
> 
> And by the way.....................the title is "The PROPHET", not "The Profit".  I don't think his main reason for writing that book was to make money, as much as it was a statement on what Gilbran thought of the way people treated each other.  Might wanna look into him being considered a rebel by many of the Muslim world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The answer to you post on an "eye for an eye" is so obvious, I am not going to address it.
> 
> "The ProfEt" is not worth the paper it is printed on, when it comes to solving *real world* problems.  If you like fiction, fine.  But, keep it out of the political threads.
> 
> Why am I not surprised that you are hung up on things not of this world?  Did you even look to see what the subject of this thread is before you posted?
> 
> 
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> 
> Do you know what reality is when you see it?  Is anything getting through the bubble you live in?​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you for posting the pictures of the radicals and their posters that let the world know who they are. More freedom loving people need to see that.  "Freedom go to hell?" What a foolish, suicidal person. And his or her face is covered...probably afraid of losing welfare bennies.
Click to expand...


That's because it's obviously photoshopped by paragons of intellectualism such as yourself.  And the OP.  And you both fell for it. 

Check the one sign out: "Demolition is on *it's*".  Nobody makes that kind of spelling mistake outside of Ignoramistan.

This thread should be renamed, "Gullible's Travels".


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## Beachboy

*
*
*Note how Muslims quickly disappear  when confronted with three giant sized postings of their violence and  terrorism?  

What they do is indefensible, which is why they keep trying  distractions from the facts.

**Muslims are scared to death you will understand the truth about them.   


Muslim Violence, Wiki
*
Islam's  doctrines and texts have in some cases been associated with violence.  This article deals with the juxtaposition in Islamic law and theology of  violence and non-violence by groups and individuals. Attitudes and laws  towards both violence and peace exist within the Islamic tradition.
*Contents*




1 Perception of Islam
1.1 Western perceptions
1.2 Islamic views on violence
 
2 Islamic sources
2.1 Qur'an
2.2 Jihad
2.2.1 Qur'anic verses in favor of violence
2.2.2 Scholars' comment in favor of Jihad
2.2.3 Hadiths about Jihad
 
2.3 Domestic violence
 
3 Modern violence
3.1 Ayatollah
3.2 Mujahedin
3.3 Taliban
3.4 Saddam Hussein
3.5 Laskar Jihad
3.6 Hezbollah
3.7 Omar al-Bashir
3.8 Wahabbists
 
4 Terrorism
4.1 World domination
 
5 See also
6 References
 *Perception of Islam *

*Western perceptions *

 Sutton and Vertigans describe Western views of Islam as based on a  stereotype of it as an inherently violent religion, characterizing it as  a 'religion of the sword'. They characterize the image of Islam in the  Western world as "dominated by conflict, aggression, 'fundamentalism',  and global-scale violent terrorism."[1]
 Juan Eduardo Campo writes that, "Europeans (have) viewed Islam in  various ways: sometimes as a backward, violent religion; sometimes as an  Arabian Nights fantasy; and sometimes as a complex and changing product  of history and social life."[2]  Robert Gleave writes that, "at the centre of popular conceptions of  Islam as a violent religion are the punishments carried out by regimes  hoping to bolster both their domestic and international Islamic  credentials.[3]
 The 9/11 attack on the US and other[_when?_]  attacks since then associated with people who follow the Islamic faith,  have led many non-Muslims to indict Islam as a violent religion.[4]  According to Corrigan and Hudson, "some conservative Christian leaders  (have) complained that Islam (is) incompatible with what they believed  to be a Christian America."[5] Examples of Christian leaders who have expressed such sentiments include Franklin Graham and Pat Robertson.[6] According to a survey conducted by a research group affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention, two out of three Protestant pastors believe Islam is a "dangerous" religion.[7]
*Islamic views on violence *

 In response to these charges, Ram Puniyani assert that, "Islam does  not condone violence but, like other religions, does believe in  self-defence".[8]
 Mark Juergensmeyer describes the teachings of Islam as ambiguous  about violence. He asserts that, like all religions, Islam occasionally  allows for force while stressing that the main spiritual goal is one of  nonviolence and peace.[9]  Hood, Hill and Spika write that "(a)lthough it would be a mistake to  think that Islam is inherently a violent religion, it would be equally  inappropriate to fail to understand the conditions under which believers  might feel justified in acting violently against those whom their  tradition feels should be opposed."[10]
 Similarly, Chandra Muzaffar asserts that, "(t)he Quranic exposition  on resisting aggression, oppression and injustice lays down the  parameters within which fighting or the use of violence is legitimate.  What this means is that one can use the Quran as the criterion for when  violence is legitimate and when it is not."[11]
*Islamic sources *

*Qur'an *

 Main article: Qur'an and violence
 The Qur'an's teachings on matters of war and peace have become topics  of heated discussion in recent years. On the one hand, some critics  claim that certain verses of the Qur'an sanction military action against  unbelievers as a whole both during the lifetime of Muhammad and after.  The Qur'an says, "Fight in the name of your religion with those who  fight against you."[12] On the other hand, other scholars argue that such verses of the Qur'an are interpreted out of context,[13][14] and argue that when the verses are read in context it clearly appears that the Qur'an prohibits aggression,[15][16][17] and allows fighting only in self-defense.[18][19]
*Jihad *

 Main article: Jihad
_Jihad_, an Islamic term, is a religious duty of Muslims. In Arabic, the word _jih&#257;d_ translates as "struggle". _Jihad_ appears 41 times in the Quran and frequently in the idiomatic expression "striving in the way of Allah _(al-jihad fi sabil Allah)_".[20][21][22]
 Jihad is an important religious duty for Muslims. A minority among the Sunni scholars sometimes refer to this duty as the sixth pillar of Islam, though it occupies no such official status.[23] In Twelver Shi'a Islam, however, Jihad is one of the 10 Practices of the Religion.
 There is controversy regarding the extent of correlation between _jihad_ and violence, and whether some have used confusion over the definition of the term to their advantage.[24]
 Middle East historian Bernard Lewis  argues that "the overwhelming majority of classical theologians,  jurists, and traditionalists (specialists in the hadith) understood the  obligation of jihad in a military sense."[25] Furthermore, Lewis maintains that for most of the recorded history of Islam, from the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad onward, the word jihad was used in a primarily military sense.[26] Although some Islamic scholars have different perspectives on the implementation of Jihad,  there is strong consensus amongst them that the concept of jihad will  always include armed struggle against what they see as persecution and  oppression.[27][28]


*Qur'anic verses in favor of violence *

 Qur'an that claims it is the "clear truth and the best explanation"[Quran 25:33], a revelation that was sent down "to make everything clear"[Quran 16:89] and the eternal word of Allah[Quran 56:80], commands its adherents in chapter no. 47,

 Quran in chapter 9 says,&#8220;Freedom from (all) obligations (is declared) from Allah and His Messenger to those of the Mushrikun _(polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah)_, with whom you made a treaty.[1]
So travel freely (O Mushrikun) for four months (as you will)  throughout the land, but know that you cannot escape (from the  Punishment of) Allah, and Allah will disgrace the disbelievers.[2]

 And a declaration from Allah and His Messenger to mankind on the  greatest day (the 10th of Dhul-Hijjah &#8212; the 12th month of Islamic  calendar) that Allah is free from (all) obligations to the Mushrikun and  so is His Messenger. So if you (Mushrikun) repent, it is better for  you, but if you turn away, then know that you cannot escape (from the  Punishment of) Allah. And give tidings (to Muhammad) of a painful  torment to those who disbelieve.[3]

 Except those of the Mushrikun with whom you have a treaty, and who  have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor have supported anyone  against you. So fulfill their treaty to them to the end of their term.  Surely Allah loves Al- Mattaqun (the pious &#8212; see V.2:2).[4]

 Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of  the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun wherever you  find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each  and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat  (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, then leave their way free. Verily,  Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.[5]

 And if anyone of the Mushrikun (polytheists, idolaters, pagans,  disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) seeks your protection then grant  him protection, so that he may hear the Word of Allah (the Quran), and  then escort him to where he can be secure, that is because they are men  who know not.[6]&#8221;
 &#8212;Muhsin khan translated Quran, verse 9:1-6​&#8220;O you who believe (in Allah's Oneness and in His  Messenger (Muhammad)! Verily, the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans,  idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah, and in the Message of  Muhammad) are Najasun (impure). So let them not come near  Al-Masjid-al-Haram (at Makkah) after this year, and if you fear poverty,  Allah will enrich you if He will, out of His Bounty. Surely, Allah is  All-Knowing, All-Wise. [28] Fight against those who
 (1) believe not in Allah,(2) nor in the Last Day,(3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger(4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam)  among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay  the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. [29] And the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah, and the Christians  say: Messiah is the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths.  They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. Allah's Curse be on  them, how they are deluded away from the truth! [30]&#8221;
 &#8212;Muhsin khan translated Quran, verse 9:28-30​Quran chapter 8 says,&#8220;(Remember) when your Lord inspired the angels,  "Verily, I am with you, so keep firm those who have believed. I will  cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved, so strike  them over the necks, and smite over all their fingers and toes."[12]
This is because they defied and disobeyed Allah and His Messenger. And  whoever defies and disobeys Allah and His Messenger, then verily, Allah  is Severe in punishment.[13]&#8221;
 &#8212;Muhsin khan translated Quran, verse 8:12-13​&#8220;Say to those who have disbelieved, if they cease  (from disbelief) their past will be forgiven. But if they return  (thereto), then the examples of those (punished) before them have  already preceded (as a warning).[38]
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism:  i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will  all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease  (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of  what they do.[39]&#8221;
 &#8212;Muhsin khan translated Quran, verse 8:38-39​In his tafsir, Ibn Kathir, one of the most well-renown Islamic scholars, explains the verses further:&#8220;Allah then commanded fighting the disbelievers when He said:
(...until there is no more Fitnah) meaning, Shirk. This is the  opinion of Ibn `Abbas, Abu Al-`Aliyah, Mujahid, Al-Hasan, Qatadah,  Ar-Rabi`, Muqatil bin Hayyan, As-Suddi and Zayd bin Aslam.

 Allah's statement:
(...and the religion (all and every kind of worship) is for Allah  (Alone).) means, `So that the religion of Allah becomes dominant above  all other religions.' It is reported in the Two Sahihs that Abu Musa  Al-Ash`ari said: "The Prophet was asked, `O Allah's Messenger! A man  fights out of bravery, and another fights to show off, which of them  fights in the cause of Allah' The Prophet said:
(He who fights so that Allah's Word is superior, then he fights in  Allah's cause.) In addition, it is reported in the Two Sahihs:
 (I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight the people until they proclaim,  `None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. Whoever said it, then  he will save his life and property from me, except for cases of the law,  and their account will be with Allah.)&#8221;
 &#8212;Tafsir of Ibn Kathir, The Order to fight until there is no more Fitnah​


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## Beachboy

*Scholars' comment in favor of Jihad *

Imam Al-Suyuti (c. 1445-1505 AD) was a famous Egyptian writer, religious scholar, juristic expert and teacher wrote:Fight those who don't believe in God nor in the  Last Day [Unless they  believe in the Prophet God bless him and grant him  peace] nor hold  what is forbidden that which God and His emissary have  forbidden [e.g.,  wine] nor embrace the true faith [which is firm, and  abrogates other  faiths, i.e., the Islamic religion] from among [for  distinguishing]  those who were given the Book [i.e., the Jews and  Christians] unless  they give the head-tax [i.e., the annual taxes  imposed on them] (/'an  yadin/) humbly submissive, and obedient to  Islam's rule.
 Suyuti, _Durr al-Manthur_ (Beirut Edition), vol. 3, p. 228​About Jihad, leader of the Afghan Jihad, Abdullah Yusuf Azzam wrote:Jihad Against the Kuffar is of two Types:  Offensive Jihad (where the  enemy is attacked in his own territory) ...  [and] Defensive Jihad. This  is expelling the Kuffar from our land, and  it is Fard Ayn [personal  religious obligation on Muslim individuals], a  compulsory duty upon all  ... ...Where the Kuffar [infidels] are not  gathering to fight the  Muslims, the fighting becomes Fard Kifaya  [religious obligation on  Muslim society] with the minimum requirement of  appointing believers to  guard borders, and the sending of an army at  least once a year to  terrorise the enemies of Allah. It is a duty of the  Imam (Caliph) to  assemble and send out an army unit into the land of  war once or twice  every year. Moreover, it is the responsibility of the  Muslim population  to assist him, and if he does not send an army he is  in sin.- And the  Ulama have mentioned that this type of jihad is for  maintaining the  payment of Jizya. The scholars of the principles of  religion have also  said: " Jihad is Daw'ah [Islamic preaching] with a  force, and is  obligatory to perform with all available capabilities,  until there  remains only Muslims or people who submit to Islam.
 A. Y. Azzam, Offensive Jihad Vs. Defensive Jihad​Shaykh A&#7717;mad Sirhind&#299; (d. 1624) was an Islamic scholar and  a  prominent Sufi. He is regarded as having rejuvenated Islam, due to  which  he is commonly called "Mujadid Alf Thani", meaning "revival of  the  second millennium". He wrote,Shariat can be fostered  through the sword. Kufr and Islam are opposed to each other. The  progress of one is  possible only at the expense of the other and  co-existences between  these two contradictory faiths in unthinkable.
 The honor of Islam lies in insulting kufr and kafirs. One who  respects  kafirs, dishonors the Muslims. To respect them does not merely  mean  honouring them and assigning them a seat of honor in any assembly,  but  it also implies keeping company with them or showing considerations  to  them. They should be kept at an arm's length like dogs. ... If some   worldly business cannot be performed without them, in that case only a   minimum of contact should be established with them but without taking   them into confidence. The highest Islamic sentiment asserts that it is   better to forego that worldly business and that no relationship should   be established with the kafirs.
 The real purpose in levying jizya on them is to humiliate them to  such  an extent that, on account of fear of jizya, they may not be able  to  dress well and to live in grandeur. They should constantly remain   terrified and trembling. It is intended to hold them under contempt and   to uphold the honor and might of Islam. . . .
 Whenever a Jew is killed, it is for the benefit of Islam
 A. Sirhindi, Excerpted from Saiyid  Athar Abbas Rizvi, Muslim  Revivalist Movements in Northern India in the  Sixteenth and Seventeenth  Centuries (Agra, Lucknow: Agra University,  Balkrishna Book Co., 1965),  pp.247-50; and Yohanan Friedmann, Shaykh  Ahmad Sirhindi: An Outline of His Thought and a Study of His Image in the Eyes of Posterity (Montreal, Quebec: McGill University, Institute of Islamic Studies, 1971), pp. 73-74.​*Hadiths about Jihad *Narrated Anas bin  Malik: Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered  to fight the people  till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped  but Allah.' And if  they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla  and slaughter as we  slaughter, then their blood and property will be  sacred to us and we  will not interfere with them except legally and  their reckoning will be  with Allah." Narrated Maimun ibn Siyah that he  asked Anas bin Malik,  "O Abu Hamza! What makes the life and property of a  person sacred?" He  replied, "Whoever says, 'None has the right to be  worshipped but  Allah', faces our Qibla during the prayers, prays like us  and eats our  slaughtered animal, then he is a Muslim, and has got the  same rights  and obligations as other Muslims have."
 Sahih al-Bukhari, 1:8:387 and Sahih al-Bukhari, 1:2:24 see also Sahih Muslim, 1:30,Sahih Muslim, 1:31,Sahih Muslim, 1:32,Sahih Muslim, 1:33,Sahih Muslim, 1:34​On the day of Al-Ahzab (i.e. clans) the Prophet said, (After this   battle) we will go to attack them (i.e. the infidels) and they will not   come to attack us."
 Sahih al-Bukhari, 5:59:435 see also Sahih Muslim, 19:4294​Narrated Abu Huraira: I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "The example of  a  Mujahid in Allah's Cause-- and Allah knows better who really strives   in His Cause----is like a person who fasts and prays continuously. Allah   guarantees that He will admit the Mujahid in His Cause into Paradise  if  he is killed, otherwise He will return him to his home safely with   rewards and war booty."
 Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:46 see also Sahih Muslim, 20:4646​Narrated Anas bin Malik: The Prophet said, "Nobody who dies and finds   good from Allah (in the Hereafter) would wish to come back to this   world even if he were given the whole world and whatever is in it,   except the martyr who, on seeing the superiority of martyrdom, would   like to come back to the world and get killed again (in Allah's Cause)."   Narrated Anas: The Prophet said, "A single endeavor (of fighting) in   Allah's Cause in the afternoon or in the forenoon is better than all the   world and whatever is in it. A place in Paradise as small as the bow  or  lash of one of you is better than all the world and whatever is in  it.  And if a houri from Paradise appeared to the people of the earth,  she  would fill the space between Heaven and the Earth with light and   pleasant scent and her head cover is better than the world and whatever   is in it."
 Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:53 see also Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:50, Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:54​It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the   Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: One who died but did   not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or   determination) for Jihid died the death of a hypocrite. 'Abdullah b.   Mubarak said: We think the hadith pertained to the time of the Messenger   of Allah (may peace be upon him)
 Sahih Muslim, 20:4696 see also Sahih Muslim, 20:4631, Sahih Muslim, 20:4634, Sahih Muslim, 20:4635​A man whose face was covered with an iron mask (i.e. clad in armor)   came to the Prophet and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Shall I fight or   embrace Islam first? "The Prophet said, "Embrace Islam first and then   fight." So he embraced Islam, and was martyred. Allah's Apostle said, A   Little work, but a great reward. "(He did very little (after embracing   Islam), but he will be rewarded in abundance)."
 Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:63 see also Sahih Muslim, 20:4639​Narrated 'Abdullah bin Abi Aufa: Allah's Apostle said, "Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords."
 Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:73 see also Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:72​Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Somebody asked, "O Allah's Apostle! Who   is the best among the people?" Allah's Apostle replied "A believer who   strives his utmost in Allah's Cause with his life and property." They   asked, "Who is next?" He replied, "A believer who stays in one of the   mountain paths worshipping Allah and leaving the people secure from his   mischief."
 Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:45 see also Sahih Muslim, 20:4652,Sahih Muslim, 20:4653​Narrated Abu Musa: A man came to the Prophet and asked, "A man fights   for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing   off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet said, "He who   fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in   Allah's Cause."
 Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:65 see also Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:48​Narrated Abu Huraira: A man came to Allah's Apostle and said,   "Instruct me as to such a deed as equals Jihad (in reward)." He replied,   "I do not find such a deed." Then he added, "Can you, while the Muslim   fighter is in the battle-field, enter your mosque to perform prayers   without cease and fast and never break your fast?" The man said, "But   who can do that?" Abu- Huraira added, "The Mujahid (i.e. Muslim fighter)   is rewarded even for the footsteps of his horse while it wanders bout   (for grazing) tied in a long rope."
 Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:44 see also Sahih Muslim, 19:4315, Sahih Muslim, 19:4314​*Domestic violence *

 Main article: Islam and domestic violence
 The relationship between *Islam and domestic violence* is disputed. These ideas are vaguely justified with reference to the Qur'an, in one Surah, An-Nisa, 34,   which discusses forms of beating in certain circumstances. Some of the   scholars allowing "beating" stress that it is a last resort,   discountenanced, and must be done lightly so much so not to cause pain   or injury.[29]
*Modern violence *


  This section *may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards*. No cleanup reason has been specified. Please help improve this section if you can. _(June 2011)_    See also: Criticism of Islam
 According to Islamic scholar Khaleel Mohammed,   throughout the world, Muslim intellectuals are punished for  criticizing  various aspects of traditional and contemporary Islam,  citing the case  of Muhammad Said al-Ashmawy, who is being held in Egypt under house arrest for his own protection; Abdel Karim Soroush who was beaten in Iran for raising the voice of inquiry, and Mahmoud Tahawho was killed in Sudan. Rifat Hassan, Fatima Mernissi, Abdallah an-Na'im, Mohammed Arkoun, and Amina Wadud were all vilified by the imams for asking Muslims to use their intellect.[30]
 Other examples:


Hashem Aghajari,   an Iranian university professor, was initially sentenced to death   because of a speech that criticized some of the present Islamic   practices in Iran being in contradiction with the original practices and   ideology of Islam, and particularly for stating that Muslims were not   "monkeys" and "should not blindly follow" the clerics. The sentence was   later commuted to three years in jail, and he was released in 2004  after  serving two years of that sentence.[31][32][33]
 

Christoph Luxenberg feels compelled to work under a pseudonym to protect himself because of fears that a new book on the origins of the Qur'an,[34][35] may make him a target for violence.[36][37] he goes/went by this assumed name in order to protect himself.[38]
 

In recent times fatwas calling for execution have been issued against novelist Salman Rushdie and activist Taslima Nasreen for pejorative comments on Islam.[39]
On 2 November 2004, Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh was assassinated by Dutch-born Mohammed Bouyeri for producing the 10-minute film _Submission_ critical of the abusive treatment of women by Muslims. A letter threatening the author of the screenplay, Ayaan Hirsi Ali,   was pinned to his body by a knife. Hirsi Ali entered into hiding   immediately following the assassination, and now is protected by   bodyguards.[40]
 

On 30 September 2005, the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten published editorial cartoons,   many of which caricatured the Islamic prophet Mohammed. The  publication  was intended to contribute to the debate regarding  criticism of Islam  and self-censorship;[41]   objectives which manifested themselves in the public outcry from  Muslim  communities within Denmark and the subsequent apology by the  paper.  However, the controversy deepened when further examples of the  cartoons  were reprinted in newspapers in more than fifty other countries.   This led to protests across the Muslim world, some of which escalated   into violence, including setting fire to the Norwegian and Danish   Embassies in Syria, and the storming of European buildings and   desecration of the Danish and German flags in Gaza City.[42] Globally, at least 139 people were killed and 823 injured.[43]
 

On 19 September 2006 French writer and philosophy teacher Robert Redeker wrote an editorial for _Le Figaro_,   a French conservative newspaper, in which he attacked Islam and   Muhammad, writing: "Pitiless war leader, pillager, butcher of Jews and   polygamous, this is how Mohammed is revealed by the Qur'an." He received   death threats and went into hiding.[44]   The teacher was forced into hiding after describing the Qu'ran as a   "book of extraordinary violence" and Islam as "a religion which ...   exalts violence and hate."[45]
 

On 4 August 2007, Ehsan Jami was attacked in his hometown of Voorburg in The Netherlands by three men. The attack is widely believed to be linked to his activities for the Central Committee for Ex-Muslims.   The national anti-terrorism coordinator's office, the public   prosecution department and the police decided during a meeting on 6   August that "additional measures" were necessary for the protection of   Jami, who subsequently received extra security.[46]
  "Hatred towards people who follow other religions such as Jews and   Christians, as well as Hindus and other polytheists, are a part of the   teachings of the Islamic holy book, the Qur'an."[47][/QUOTE]


----------



## Beachboy

*Ayatollah *

 "Perhaps the most resounding call to jihad in modern times occurred on 21 January 1979," suggest authors, as the Ayatollah Khomeini announced a Jihad against the US. "The people have absolute confidence in their victory in this holy war (jihad-e moqaddas)," said the Islamic icon.[48]
Ayatollah Khomeini's "Radical Islamic Revolution executed and killed hundreds of thousands of people in the name of Radical Islam."[49]
Iran, under the Ayatollah Khomeini, categorized the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq war as a 'Holy war'.[50] "Khomeini's call to jihad incited thousands of Iranian teenagers to volunteer for martyrdom missions."[48] The Basiji movement 'created' child and adult sacrifice as "holy soldiers,"[51] Blessed by Iranian mullahs' regime.[52]
 The Basiji ideology enjoys a revival under Iran's president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad,[51] who is a member.[53]     The movement has a nominal strength of 12.6 million, and has been     present in schools since it was first created in 1979 by the Ayatollah.[54] Basijis were used in crackdowns in 1999, in 2003[55] and in the brutality of 2009 on protesters in Iran.[56]
 The group demands in training intense Quran     studies, it calls for Basij Ethics and Etiquette and Major  Islamic    Commandments. The Basijis have been known to act in  defending a  strict   Islamic conduct."[57] and enforcing Sharia law.[58] often "merging" with Ansar-e Hezbollah men in enforcing Sharia law.[55] In one example, Human rights     activists charged that Basiji Islamic militiamen have raped and     murdered 26 year old Elnaz Babazadeh for wearing an improper dress.[59]
 On 19 August 1979 the Ayatollah declared a jihad against the Kurds in Iran. "Once jihad is declared, all males over 15 must join the fight, the enemy's property is open to confiscation."[60]
 "Ayatollah Khomeini played on the messianic overtones of this belief     during the Iranian revolution." The ideology of "Twelver" in Shiite     Islam (return of the 12th Imam  belief) was invoked by many who     believed that the Ayatollah will "return" as their Mahdi (Islamic Messiah). Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad     refocuses this belief of the Mahdi's return by public statements and     various symbolic actions, Iraq's Shiite al-Sadr's army is called the  Mahdi army.[61]
*Mujahedin *

 In 1979 Afghanistan, local Muslim rebels began fighting the Soviets army, calling themselves Mujahideen, they used guerrilla war.[62]
 Author of the book _Holy war_ Wilhelm Dietl accounted how one Mujahed fighter told him en route to an armed attack in Herat: "We love to kill Russians and to be killed."[63]
*Taliban *

 Some of the Taliban have fought against the Soviets in the 1980s. They battle to conquer the country.[64] Many Madrassas endorse Jihad in Pakistan and in Afghanistan.[65]
 In the 1980s, the _Afghan jihad_ had been financed by Saudi Arabia[66] as well as other countries including the United States of America.[_citation needed_]
*Saddam Hussein *

Saddam Hussein warned of a jihad against the United States in 1991.[67]     In 2003, after the March 20 US, British led invasion of Iraq, Saddam     Hussein called for a holy war against "an aggression on the land of     Islam." (invoking the Quranic theme: "Fight them everywhere...")[68]     The statement accused the coalition forces of waging a war against     Islam. His information Minister conlcuding: "Therefore, jihad is a  duty    in confronting them... Those who are martyred will be rewarded  in    heaven. Seize the opportunity, my brothers."[69]
*Laskar Jihad *

 The paramilitary organisation Laskar Jihad called "to wage a jihad or holy war" into Indonesia's Moluccan islands, and carried out anti-Christian attacks in Sulawesi,[70] the same group was involved in the 1999 violence against Christians and Chinese[71] in East Timor.[72] It has been categorized as "Indonesia's Dirty Little Holy War Holy Terror.[70]
*Hezbollah *

Hezbollah's spiritual guidance, Sheik Muhammed Hussein Fadlallah, who witnessing journalist says was behind the hostage crisis in Lebanon in the 1980s,[73] said: "We see ourselves as _mujihadeen_ who fight a Holy War." Justifying bombings, kidnapping, murder.[74]
 However British journalist Robert Fisk disputes these claims about Fadlallh:The Americans put it about that he had blessed the suicide bomber who     struck the US marine base in Beirut in 1983, killing 241 service     personnel. Fadlallah always denied this to me and I believe him. Suicide     bombers, however insane we regard them, don't need to be blessed;   they   think they are doing God's duty without any help from a marja   like   Fadlallah.​[75]
*Omar al-Bashir *

 "In the present conflict in Darfur, jihad is usually interpreted as holy war by the government in Khartoum."[76] The Sudanese National Islamic Front declared in 1992 a _jihad,_ or holy war, against all in the Nuba Mountains who supported the SPLA."[77][78]
Sudan's leader Omar Al-Bashir, in 1997 "declared a jihad (holy war) against" Ethiopia.[79] Accused of genocide he threatened in 2007 "to mount a jihad against United Nations peacekeepers."[80]
*Wahabbists *

 The Whabbists have a long history of fundamentalism and jihad,     declaring holy wars on others, to force them into accepting their     purified version of Islam[81]
 In 2010, a 'Glut of fatwas spurred Saudi king to impose curbs,' Saudi     political analyst explaining: "If you endorse jihad, it means you are     searching for a war with the rest of the world."[82]
 Some militant Islamic movements cite Saudi Wahhabi clerics to justify violence.[83]
 Saudi Grand Mufti Ibn Baz repudiated violence. He stated:From that which is known to everyone who has the slightest bit of     common sense is that hijacking airplanes and kidnapping children and the     like are extremely great crimes, the world over. Their evil effects    are  far and wide, as is the great harm and inconvenience caused to  the    innocent; the total effect of which none can comprehend except  Allaah.​[84]
*Terrorism *

 Main article: Islam and terrorism
*Islamic terrorism* is terrorism[85] committed by Islamists, and aimed at achieving varying political ends[86] and the advancement of Islamist goals; for example, Osama bin Laden's stated goal of ending American military presence in the Middle East and the Arabian Peninsula,[87][87] overthrowing Arab regimes he considers corrupt and insufficiently religious,[87] and stopping American support for Israel.[88] Bombing in London 7/7 are said to be in retaliation for UK's support in the war in Iraq that began in 2003, though it can't be linked as a motive for Islamic terror plots on London, December, 2001.[89][90] The Islamic terrorism     attack in Madrid were "explained" as "inspired by al-Qaeda's call to     punish Spain's government for supporting the Iraq war," another  motive    was given that Spain holds a strong appeal to Islamic  militants  because   the southern region of Andalucia was under Muslim  control for  almost  800  years, and "Al-Qaeda has called on jihadists  to reconquer  Spain as  part  of a broader Muslim caliphate, or kingdom under Islamic rule."[91][92]
 At the 2008 Mumbai attacks, the Islamic terrorists were told by their handlers in Pakistan "that the lives of Jews were worth 50 times those of non-Jews."[93]
 The Qur'an: (8:12): "...cast terror in their hearts and strike upon their necks."[94] The _commanded to terrorize the disbelievers_ have been cited in motivation of Jihadi terror.[95][96][97][98]
 A Jihadi cleric:"Another aim and objective of jihad is to    drive terror in the hearts  of the [infidels]. To terrorize them. Did    you know that we were  commanded in the Qur'an with terrorism?  ...Allah   said, and prepare for  them to the best of your ability with  power, and   with horses of war. To  drive terror in the hearts of my  enemies,   Allah's enemies, and your  enemies. And other enemies which  you don't   know, only Allah knows  them... So we were commanded to  drive terror   into the hearts of the  [infidels], to prepare for them  with the best of   our abilities with  power. Then the Prophet said,  nay, the power is   your ability to shoot.  The power which you are  commanded with here, is   your ability to shoot.  Another aim and  objective of jihad is to kill   the [infidels], to lessen  the  population of the [infidels]... it is not   right for a Prophet to  have  captives until he makes the Earth warm   with blood... so, you should   always seek to lessen the population of   the [infidels]."[99]​Observers have also argued that the attacks are aimed at propagating Islamic culture, society and values in opposition to perceived political, imperialistic, and/or cultural influences of non-Muslims, and the Western world in particular.[100][101]
 There are also historical dimensions to the phenomenon, and the history of Western influence and control after the fall of the Ottoman Empire     in 1918, is a common stated reason used within some terrorist groups    to  justify and explain its use of violence as resistive and   retributive   against western influences.
*World domination *

 The strive to an 'Islamic Caliphate.' Caliph is translated from the Arabic *Khalifa* (&#1582;&#1604;&#1610;&#1601;&#1577; &#7830;al&#299;fä) meaning "successor", "substitute", or "lieutenant". It is used in the Qur'an to establish Adam's role as representative of Allah on earth. Kalifa is also used to describe the belief that man's role, in his real nature, is as khalifa or viceroy to Allah.[102] The word is also most commonly used for the Islamic leader of the Ummah; starting with Muhammad and his line of successors.
 Indeed, domination is the ultimate goal of jihadists.[103][104] Al-Qaeda revealed its grand plan towards an Islamic caliphate,[105] - global domination.[106] Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's Al-Qaeda in Iraq, has released a statement in which it explains the reasons for its terror campaign:"We are not fighting to chase out the occupier or to save national     unity and keep the borders outlined by the infidels intact," [...] "We     are fighting because it is a religious duty to do it, just as it is a     duty to take the Sharia [Islamic law] to the government and create  an    Islamic state."[107]​"Al-Qaeda has called on jihadists to reconquer Spain as part of a broader Muslim caliphate, or kingdom under Islamic rule."[91] Explaining why even Hamas has an eye on Spain.[92] In the early 1990s, the GIA     Algerian Armed Islamist Group, which is "well known for its radical     positions and the barbaric violence of its operations, announced the     restoration of the caliphate and the appointment of a caliph."[108] With Palestinian Islamic party Hamas victory in the 2007 election, a mass gathering followed with Hamas' spokesman calling for a Caliphate.[109] The official said Hamas seeks to create an "Islamic caliphate" in the land.[110][111]




​ 
*Note how Muslims quickly disappear  when confronted with three giant sized postings of their violence and  terrorism?  *

* What they do is indefensible, which is why they keep trying  distractions from the facts.* 

*Muslims are scared to death you will understand the truth about them.  *


----------



## Beachboy

Luddly Neddite said:


> ......Youre advocating Muslims opposed to terrorism commit acts of  terror  against those who are innocent of any crime as a means to end   terrorism.



Sounds like a workable solution worth looking into. My mother always  told me I had to clean up my room because I was the one who made a mess  of it.  Why should we have to clean up their mess?

Besides, it would a be show of good faith to those of western culture.


----------



## Osomir

Wow, nice copy and past wikipedia spamming. I would gladly debate Islamic theology with you. from your posting it looks like you and i have very strong disagreements as to its content. Take sura 9 for example, you've posted a number of verses from there but conveniently left out the other verses in between that give general amnesties to those who the umma were not at war with at the time. Muhammad himself at that time was also allied with non-Islamic tribes. Sura 8 generally deals with the Battle of Badr, so you are taking specific theological passages and trying to apply them quite generally. In either case I'd be willing to discuss anything you'd like about the religion. I'm not a muslim, but I'm not scared of your "three giant posts".


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## Pogo

Osomir said:


> Wow, nice copy and past wikipedia spamming. I would gladly debate Islamic theology with you. from your posting it looks like you and i have very strong disagreements as to its content. Take sura 9 for example, you've posted a number of verses from there but conveniently left out the other verses in between that give general amnesties to those who the umma were not at war with at the time. Muhammad himself at that time was also allied with non-Islamic tribes. Sura 8 generally deals with the Battle of Badr, so you are taking specific theological passages and trying to apply them quite generally. In either case I'd be willing to discuss anything you'd like about the religion. I'm not a muslim, but I'm not scared of your "three giant posts".




You're a brave man to take that on, but you're wasting your time.  Belchboy isn't interested in substance, and if you slip him some you'll be met with shrieks of "Muslim!" and "traitor!".  He'll never meet substance with substance.

Basically this thread, like all Belchboy threads, isn't really about Islam.  It's about Belchboy and his public textual onanism.

Fair warning...


----------



## Osomir

Pogo said:


> You're a brave man to take that on, but you're wasting your time.  Belchboy isn't interested in substance, and if you slip him some you'll be met with shrieks of "Muslim!" and "traitor!".  He'll never meet substance with substance.
> 
> Basically this thread, like all Belchboy threads, isn't really about Islam.  It's about Belchboy and his public textual onanism.
> 
> Fair warning...



That's the way he has been batting so far, but i'm still new to the forums so I'll give him a shot here.


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## ABikerSailor

BitchBoi is nothing more than a troll.

Wanna talk about his racist (i.e. against Muslims) threads.

This is just one of them.


----------



## beagle9

Osomir said:


> Wow, nice copy and past wikipedia spamming. I would gladly debate Islamic theology with you. from your posting it looks like you and i have very strong disagreements as to its content. Take sura 9 for example, you've posted a number of verses from there but conveniently left out the other verses in between that give general amnesties to those who the umma were not at war with at the time. Muhammad himself at that time was also allied with non-Islamic tribes. Sura 8 generally deals with the Battle of Badr, so you are taking specific theological passages and trying to apply them quite generally. In either case I'd be willing to discuss anything you'd like about the religion. I'm not a muslim, but I'm not scared of your "three giant posts".


I got a better idea, why don't you seek more to school those whom are the actual culprits in this problem, instead of wanting to discuss your teachings or views with a westerner who is more the target of radicalism these days, and this by those whom are radicals that have been radicalized amongst these people, just as those at Forth Hood (the innocents) were targets as well by such a religion in which harbors such radicals and such views that in the hands of a radical becomes serious and deadly in a westernized society as is proven ?


----------



## Beachboy

Osomir said:


> Wow, nice copy and past wikipedia spamming. I would gladly debate Islamic theology with you. from your posting it looks like you and i have very strong disagreements as to its content. Take sura 9 for example, you've posted a number of verses from there but conveniently left out the other verses in between that give general amnesties to those who the umma were not at war with at the time. Muhammad himself at that time was also allied with non-Islamic tribes. Sura 8 generally deals with the Battle of Badr, so you are taking specific theological passages and trying to apply them quite generally. In either case I'd be willing to discuss anything you'd like about the religion. I'm not a muslim, but I'm not scared of your "three giant posts".



Malarkey.  There are three posts of Muslim violence and terrorism because there are three posts worth of information in Wiki about Muslim terrorism.  After alll we were told by Muslim posters there were only a very few examples of Muslim terrorism, and no you know that is wrong because here is a very long list.  Your problem is that the truth is infensible.  Muslims are barbarians who as the Russians said, "should be treated like cattle, and kept on a short leash."

The Wiki posts prove they are correct.  Here they come again.


----------



## Osomir

Beachboy said:


> Osomir said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, nice copy and past wikipedia spamming. I would gladly debate Islamic theology with you. from your posting it looks like you and i have very strong disagreements as to its content. Take sura 9 for example, you've posted a number of verses from there but conveniently left out the other verses in between that give general amnesties to those who the umma were not at war with at the time. Muhammad himself at that time was also allied with non-Islamic tribes. Sura 8 generally deals with the Battle of Badr, so you are taking specific theological passages and trying to apply them quite generally. In either case I'd be willing to discuss anything you'd like about the religion. I'm not a muslim, but I'm not scared of your "three giant posts".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Malarkey.  There are three posts of Muslim violence and terrorism because there are three posts worth of information in Wiki about Muslim terrorism.  After alll we were told by Muslim posters there were only a very few examples of Muslim terrorism, and no you know that is wrong because here is a very long list.  Your problem is that the truth is infensible.  Muslims are barbarians who as the Russians said, "should be treated like cattle, and kept on a short leash."
> 
> The Wiki posts prove they are correct.  Here they come again.
Click to expand...


Does it ever bother you that you don't make any sort of coherent sense?


----------



## Beachboy

Beachboy said:


> *
> *
> *Note how Muslims quickly disappear  when confronted with three giant sized postings of their violence and  terrorism?
> 
> What they do is indefensible, which is why they keep trying  distractions from the facts.
> 
> **Muslims are scared to death you will understand the truth about them.
> 
> 
> Muslim Violence, Wiki
> *
> Islam's  doctrines and texts have in some cases been associated with violence.  This article deals with the juxtaposition in Islamic law and theology of  violence and non-violence by groups and individuals. Attitudes and laws  towards both violence and peace exist within the Islamic tradition.
> *Contents*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1 Perception of Islam
> 1.1 Western perceptions
> 1.2 Islamic views on violence
> 
> 2 Islamic sources
> 2.1 Qur'an
> 2.2 Jihad
> 2.2.1 Qur'anic verses in favor of violence
> 2.2.2 Scholars' comment in favor of Jihad
> 2.2.3 Hadiths about Jihad
> 
> 2.3 Domestic violence
> 
> 3 Modern violence
> 3.1 Ayatollah
> 3.2 Mujahedin
> 3.3 Taliban
> 3.4 Saddam Hussein
> 3.5 Laskar Jihad
> 3.6 Hezbollah
> 3.7 Omar al-Bashir
> 3.8 Wahabbists
> 
> 4 Terrorism
> 4.1 World domination
> 
> 5 See also
> 6 References
> *Perception of Islam *
> 
> *Western perceptions *
> 
> Sutton and Vertigans describe Western views of Islam as based on a  stereotype of it as an inherently violent religion, characterizing it as  a 'religion of the sword'. They characterize the image of Islam in the  Western world as "dominated by conflict, aggression, 'fundamentalism',  and global-scale violent terrorism."[1]
> Juan Eduardo Campo writes that, "Europeans (have) viewed Islam in  various ways: sometimes as a backward, violent religion; sometimes as an  Arabian Nights fantasy; and sometimes as a complex and changing product  of history and social life."[2]  Robert Gleave writes that, "at the centre of popular conceptions of  Islam as a violent religion are the punishments carried out by regimes  hoping to bolster both their domestic and international Islamic  credentials.[3]
> The 9/11 attack on the US and other[_when?_]  attacks since then associated with people who follow the Islamic faith,  have led many non-Muslims to indict Islam as a violent religion.[4]  According to Corrigan and Hudson, "some conservative Christian leaders  (have) complained that Islam (is) incompatible with what they believed  to be a Christian America."[5] Examples of Christian leaders who have expressed such sentiments include Franklin Graham and Pat Robertson.[6] According to a survey conducted by a research group affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention, two out of three Protestant pastors believe Islam is a "dangerous" religion.[7]
> *Islamic views on violence *
> 
> In response to these charges, Ram Puniyani assert that, "Islam does  not condone violence but, like other religions, does believe in  self-defence".[8]
> Mark Juergensmeyer describes the teachings of Islam as ambiguous  about violence. He asserts that, like all religions, Islam occasionally  allows for force while stressing that the main spiritual goal is one of  nonviolence and peace.[9]  Hood, Hill and Spika write that "(a)lthough it would be a mistake to  think that Islam is inherently a violent religion, it would be equally  inappropriate to fail to understand the conditions under which believers  might feel justified in acting violently against those whom their  tradition feels should be opposed."[10]
> Similarly, Chandra Muzaffar asserts that, "(t)he Quranic exposition  on resisting aggression, oppression and injustice lays down the  parameters within which fighting or the use of violence is legitimate.  What this means is that one can use the Quran as the criterion for when  violence is legitimate and when it is not."[11]
> *Islamic sources *
> 
> *Qur'an *
> 
> Main article: Qur'an and violence
> The Qur'an's teachings on matters of war and peace have become topics  of heated discussion in recent years. On the one hand, some critics  claim that certain verses of the Qur'an sanction military action against  unbelievers as a whole both during the lifetime of Muhammad and after.  The Qur'an says, "Fight in the name of your religion with those who  fight against you."[12] On the other hand, other scholars argue that such verses of the Qur'an are interpreted out of context,[13][14] and argue that when the verses are read in context it clearly appears that the Qur'an prohibits aggression,[15][16][17] and allows fighting only in self-defense.[18][19]
> *Jihad *
> 
> Main article: Jihad
> _Jihad_, an Islamic term, is a religious duty of Muslims. In Arabic, the word _jih&#257;d_ translates as "struggle". _Jihad_ appears 41 times in the Quran and frequently in the idiomatic expression "striving in the way of Allah _(al-jihad fi sabil Allah)_".[20][21][22]
> Jihad is an important religious duty for Muslims. A minority among the Sunni scholars sometimes refer to this duty as the sixth pillar of Islam, though it occupies no such official status.[23] In Twelver Shi'a Islam, however, Jihad is one of the 10 Practices of the Religion.
> There is controversy regarding the extent of correlation between _jihad_ and violence, and whether some have used confusion over the definition of the term to their advantage.[24]
> Middle East historian Bernard Lewis  argues that "the overwhelming majority of classical theologians,  jurists, and traditionalists (specialists in the hadith) understood the  obligation of jihad in a military sense."[25] Furthermore, Lewis maintains that for most of the recorded history of Islam, from the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad onward, the word jihad was used in a primarily military sense.[26] Although some Islamic scholars have different perspectives on the implementation of Jihad,  there is strong consensus amongst them that the concept of jihad will  always include armed struggle against what they see as persecution and  oppression.[27][28]
> 
> 
> *Qur'anic verses in favor of violence *
> 
> Qur'an that claims it is the "clear truth and the best explanation"[Quran 25:33], a revelation that was sent down "to make everything clear"[Quran 16:89] and the eternal word of Allah[Quran 56:80], commands its adherents in chapter no. 47,
> 
> Quran in chapter 9 says,Freedom from (all) obligations (is declared) from Allah and His Messenger to those of the Mushrikun _(polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah)_, with whom you made a treaty.[1]
> So travel freely (O Mushrikun) for four months (as you will)  throughout the land, but know that you cannot escape (from the  Punishment of) Allah, and Allah will disgrace the disbelievers.[2]
> 
> And a declaration from Allah and His Messenger to mankind on the  greatest day (the 10th of Dhul-Hijjah  the 12th month of Islamic  calendar) that Allah is free from (all) obligations to the Mushrikun and  so is His Messenger. So if you (Mushrikun) repent, it is better for  you, but if you turn away, then know that you cannot escape (from the  Punishment of) Allah. And give tidings (to Muhammad) of a painful  torment to those who disbelieve.[3]
> 
> Except those of the Mushrikun with whom you have a treaty, and who  have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor have supported anyone  against you. So fulfill their treaty to them to the end of their term.  Surely Allah loves Al- Mattaqun (the pious  see V.2:2).[4]
> 
> Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of  the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun wherever you  find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each  and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat  (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, then leave their way free. Verily,  Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.[5]
> 
> And if anyone of the Mushrikun (polytheists, idolaters, pagans,  disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) seeks your protection then grant  him protection, so that he may hear the Word of Allah (the Quran), and  then escort him to where he can be secure, that is because they are men  who know not.[6]
> Muhsin khan translated Quran, verse 9:1-6​O you who believe (in Allah's Oneness and in His  Messenger (Muhammad)! Verily, the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans,  idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah, and in the Message of  Muhammad) are Najasun (impure). So let them not come near  Al-Masjid-al-Haram (at Makkah) after this year, and if you fear poverty,  Allah will enrich you if He will, out of His Bounty. Surely, Allah is  All-Knowing, All-Wise. [28] Fight against those who
> (1) believe not in Allah,(2) nor in the Last Day,(3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger(4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam)  among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay  the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. [29] And the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah, and the Christians  say: Messiah is the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths.  They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. Allah's Curse be on  them, how they are deluded away from the truth! [30]
> Muhsin khan translated Quran, verse 9:28-30​Quran chapter 8 says,(Remember) when your Lord inspired the angels,  "Verily, I am with you, so keep firm those who have believed. I will  cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved, so strike  them over the necks, and smite over all their fingers and toes."[12]
> This is because they defied and disobeyed Allah and His Messenger. And  whoever defies and disobeys Allah and His Messenger, then verily, Allah  is Severe in punishment.[13]
> Muhsin khan translated Quran, verse 8:12-13​Say to those who have disbelieved, if they cease  (from disbelief) their past will be forgiven. But if they return  (thereto), then the examples of those (punished) before them have  already preceded (as a warning).[38]
> And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism:  i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will  all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease  (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of  what they do.[39]
> Muhsin khan translated Quran, verse 8:38-39​In his tafsir, Ibn Kathir, one of the most well-renown Islamic scholars, explains the verses further:Allah then commanded fighting the disbelievers when He said:
> (...until there is no more Fitnah) meaning, Shirk. This is the  opinion of Ibn `Abbas, Abu Al-`Aliyah, Mujahid, Al-Hasan, Qatadah,  Ar-Rabi`, Muqatil bin Hayyan, As-Suddi and Zayd bin Aslam.
> 
> Allah's statement:
> (...and the religion (all and every kind of worship) is for Allah  (Alone).) means, `So that the religion of Allah becomes dominant above  all other religions.' It is reported in the Two Sahihs that Abu Musa  Al-Ash`ari said: "The Prophet was asked, `O Allah's Messenger! A man  fights out of bravery, and another fights to show off, which of them  fights in the cause of Allah' The Prophet said:
> (He who fights so that Allah's Word is superior, then he fights in  Allah's cause.) In addition, it is reported in the Two Sahihs:
> (I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight the people until they proclaim,  `None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. Whoever said it, then  he will save his life and property from me, except for cases of the law,  and their account will be with Allah.)
> Tafsir of Ibn Kathir, The Order to fight until there is no more Fitnah​



*Don't miss all three posts from Wiki on Muslim violence and terrorism.  It is quite a list!*


----------



## Beachboy

Beachboy said:


> *Scholars' comment in favor of Jihad *
> 
> Imam Al-Suyuti (c. 1445-1505 AD) was a famous Egyptian writer, religious scholar, juristic expert and teacher wrote:Fight those who don't believe in God nor in the  Last Day [Unless they  believe in the Prophet God bless him and grant him  peace] nor hold  what is forbidden that which God and His emissary have  forbidden [e.g.,  wine] nor embrace the true faith [which is firm, and  abrogates other  faiths, i.e., the Islamic religion] from among [for  distinguishing]  those who were given the Book [i.e., the Jews and  Christians] unless  they give the head-tax [i.e., the annual taxes  imposed on them] (/'an  yadin/) humbly submissive, and obedient to  Islam's rule.
> Suyuti, _Durr al-Manthur_ (Beirut Edition), vol. 3, p. 228​About Jihad, leader of the Afghan Jihad, Abdullah Yusuf Azzam wrote:Jihad Against the Kuffar is of two Types:  Offensive Jihad (where the  enemy is attacked in his own territory) ...  [and] Defensive Jihad. This  is expelling the Kuffar from our land, and  it is Fard Ayn [personal  religious obligation on Muslim individuals], a  compulsory duty upon all  ... ...Where the Kuffar [infidels] are not  gathering to fight the  Muslims, the fighting becomes Fard Kifaya  [religious obligation on  Muslim society] with the minimum requirement of  appointing believers to  guard borders, and the sending of an army at  least once a year to  terrorise the enemies of Allah. It is a duty of the  Imam (Caliph) to  assemble and send out an army unit into the land of  war once or twice  every year. Moreover, it is the responsibility of the  Muslim population  to assist him, and if he does not send an army he is  in sin.- And the  Ulama have mentioned that this type of jihad is for  maintaining the  payment of Jizya. The scholars of the principles of  religion have also  said: " Jihad is Daw'ah [Islamic preaching] with a  force, and is  obligatory to perform with all available capabilities,  until there  remains only Muslims or people who submit to Islam.
> A. Y. Azzam, Offensive Jihad Vs. Defensive Jihad​Shaykh A&#7717;mad Sirhind&#299; (d. 1624) was an Islamic scholar and  a  prominent Sufi. He is regarded as having rejuvenated Islam, due to  which  he is commonly called "Mujadid Alf Thani", meaning "revival of  the  second millennium". He wrote,Shariat can be fostered  through the sword. Kufr and Islam are opposed to each other. The  progress of one is  possible only at the expense of the other and  co-existences between  these two contradictory faiths in unthinkable.
> The honor of Islam lies in insulting kufr and kafirs. One who  respects  kafirs, dishonors the Muslims. To respect them does not merely  mean  honouring them and assigning them a seat of honor in any assembly,  but  it also implies keeping company with them or showing considerations  to  them. They should be kept at an arm's length like dogs. ... If some   worldly business cannot be performed without them, in that case only a   minimum of contact should be established with them but without taking   them into confidence. The highest Islamic sentiment asserts that it is   better to forego that worldly business and that no relationship should   be established with the kafirs.
> The real purpose in levying jizya on them is to humiliate them to  such  an extent that, on account of fear of jizya, they may not be able  to  dress well and to live in grandeur. They should constantly remain   terrified and trembling. It is intended to hold them under contempt and   to uphold the honor and might of Islam. . . .
> Whenever a Jew is killed, it is for the benefit of Islam
> A. Sirhindi, Excerpted from Saiyid  Athar Abbas Rizvi, Muslim  Revivalist Movements in Northern India in the  Sixteenth and Seventeenth  Centuries (Agra, Lucknow: Agra University,  Balkrishna Book Co., 1965),  pp.247-50; and Yohanan Friedmann, Shaykh  Ahmad Sirhindi: An Outline of His Thought and a Study of His Image in the Eyes of Posterity (Montreal, Quebec: McGill University, Institute of Islamic Studies, 1971), pp. 73-74.​*Hadiths about Jihad *Narrated Anas bin  Malik: Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered  to fight the people  till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped  but Allah.' And if  they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla  and slaughter as we  slaughter, then their blood and property will be  sacred to us and we  will not interfere with them except legally and  their reckoning will be  with Allah." Narrated Maimun ibn Siyah that he  asked Anas bin Malik,  "O Abu Hamza! What makes the life and property of a  person sacred?" He  replied, "Whoever says, 'None has the right to be  worshipped but  Allah', faces our Qibla during the prayers, prays like us  and eats our  slaughtered animal, then he is a Muslim, and has got the  same rights  and obligations as other Muslims have."
>  Sahih al-Bukhari, 1:8:387 and Sahih al-Bukhari, 1:2:24 see also Sahih Muslim, 1:30,Sahih Muslim, 1:31,Sahih Muslim, 1:32,Sahih Muslim, 1:33,Sahih Muslim, 1:34​On the day of Al-Ahzab (i.e. clans) the Prophet said, (After this   battle) we will go to attack them (i.e. the infidels) and they will not   come to attack us."
>  Sahih al-Bukhari, 5:59:435 see also Sahih Muslim, 19:4294​Narrated Abu Huraira: I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "The example of  a  Mujahid in Allah's Cause-- and Allah knows better who really strives   in His Cause----is like a person who fasts and prays continuously. Allah   guarantees that He will admit the Mujahid in His Cause into Paradise  if  he is killed, otherwise He will return him to his home safely with   rewards and war booty."
>  Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:46 see also Sahih Muslim, 20:4646​Narrated Anas bin Malik: The Prophet said, "Nobody who dies and finds   good from Allah (in the Hereafter) would wish to come back to this   world even if he were given the whole world and whatever is in it,   except the martyr who, on seeing the superiority of martyrdom, would   like to come back to the world and get killed again (in Allah's Cause)."   Narrated Anas: The Prophet said, "A single endeavor (of fighting) in   Allah's Cause in the afternoon or in the forenoon is better than all the   world and whatever is in it. A place in Paradise as small as the bow  or  lash of one of you is better than all the world and whatever is in  it.  And if a houri from Paradise appeared to the people of the earth,  she  would fill the space between Heaven and the Earth with light and   pleasant scent and her head cover is better than the world and whatever   is in it."
>  Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:53 see also Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:50, Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:54​It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the   Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: One who died but did   not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or   determination) for Jihid died the death of a hypocrite. 'Abdullah b.   Mubarak said: We think the hadith pertained to the time of the Messenger   of Allah (may peace be upon him)
>  Sahih Muslim, 20:4696 see also Sahih Muslim, 20:4631, Sahih Muslim, 20:4634, Sahih Muslim, 20:4635​A man whose face was covered with an iron mask (i.e. clad in armor)   came to the Prophet and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Shall I fight or   embrace Islam first? "The Prophet said, "Embrace Islam first and then   fight." So he embraced Islam, and was martyred. Allah's Apostle said, A   Little work, but a great reward. "(He did very little (after embracing   Islam), but he will be rewarded in abundance)."
>  Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:63 see also Sahih Muslim, 20:4639​Narrated 'Abdullah bin Abi Aufa: Allah's Apostle said, "Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords."
>  Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:73 see also Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:72​Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Somebody asked, "O Allah's Apostle! Who   is the best among the people?" Allah's Apostle replied "A believer who   strives his utmost in Allah's Cause with his life and property." They   asked, "Who is next?" He replied, "A believer who stays in one of the   mountain paths worshipping Allah and leaving the people secure from his   mischief."
>  Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:45 see also Sahih Muslim, 20:4652,Sahih Muslim, 20:4653​Narrated Abu Musa: A man came to the Prophet and asked, "A man fights   for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing   off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet said, "He who   fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in   Allah's Cause."
>  Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:65 see also Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:48​Narrated Abu Huraira: A man came to Allah's Apostle and said,   "Instruct me as to such a deed as equals Jihad (in reward)." He replied,   "I do not find such a deed." Then he added, "Can you, while the Muslim   fighter is in the battle-field, enter your mosque to perform prayers   without cease and fast and never break your fast?" The man said, "But   who can do that?" Abu- Huraira added, "The Mujahid (i.e. Muslim fighter)   is rewarded even for the footsteps of his horse while it wanders bout   (for grazing) tied in a long rope."
>  Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:44 see also Sahih Muslim, 19:4315, Sahih Muslim, 19:4314​*Domestic violence *
> 
> Main article: Islam and domestic violence
> The relationship between *Islam and domestic violence* is disputed. These ideas are vaguely justified with reference to the Qur'an, in one Surah, An-Nisa, 34,   which discusses forms of beating in certain circumstances. Some of the   scholars allowing "beating" stress that it is a last resort,   discountenanced, and must be done lightly so much so not to cause pain   or injury.[29]
> *Modern violence *
> 
> 
> This section *may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards*. No cleanup reason has been specified. Please help improve this section if you can. _(June 2011)_    See also: Criticism of Islam
> According to Islamic scholar Khaleel Mohammed,   throughout the world, Muslim intellectuals are punished for  criticizing  various aspects of traditional and contemporary Islam,  citing the case  of Muhammad Said al-Ashmawy, who is being held in Egypt under house arrest for his own protection; Abdel Karim Soroush who was beaten in Iran for raising the voice of inquiry, and Mahmoud Tahawho was killed in Sudan. Rifat Hassan, Fatima Mernissi, Abdallah an-Na'im, Mohammed Arkoun, and Amina Wadud were all vilified by the imams for asking Muslims to use their intellect.[30]
> Other examples:
> 
> 
> Hashem Aghajari,   an Iranian university professor, was initially sentenced to death   because of a speech that criticized some of the present Islamic   practices in Iran being in contradiction with the original practices and   ideology of Islam, and particularly for stating that Muslims were not   "monkeys" and "should not blindly follow" the clerics. The sentence was   later commuted to three years in jail, and he was released in 2004  after  serving two years of that sentence.[31][32][33]
> 
> 
> Christoph Luxenberg feels compelled to work under a pseudonym to protect himself because of fears that a new book on the origins of the Qur'an,[34][35] may make him a target for violence.[36][37] he goes/went by this assumed name in order to protect himself.[38]
> 
> 
> In recent times fatwas calling for execution have been issued against novelist Salman Rushdie and activist Taslima Nasreen for pejorative comments on Islam.[39]
> On 2 November 2004, Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh was assassinated by Dutch-born Mohammed Bouyeri for producing the 10-minute film _Submission_ critical of the abusive treatment of women by Muslims. A letter threatening the author of the screenplay, Ayaan Hirsi Ali,   was pinned to his body by a knife. Hirsi Ali entered into hiding   immediately following the assassination, and now is protected by   bodyguards.[40]
> 
> 
> On 30 September 2005, the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten published editorial cartoons,   many of which caricatured the Islamic prophet Mohammed. The  publication  was intended to contribute to the debate regarding  criticism of Islam  and self-censorship;[41]   objectives which manifested themselves in the public outcry from  Muslim  communities within Denmark and the subsequent apology by the  paper.  However, the controversy deepened when further examples of the  cartoons  were reprinted in newspapers in more than fifty other countries.   This led to protests across the Muslim world, some of which escalated   into violence, including setting fire to the Norwegian and Danish   Embassies in Syria, and the storming of European buildings and   desecration of the Danish and German flags in Gaza City.[42] Globally, at least 139 people were killed and 823 injured.[43]
> 
> 
> On 19 September 2006 French writer and philosophy teacher Robert Redeker wrote an editorial for _Le Figaro_,   a French conservative newspaper, in which he attacked Islam and   Muhammad, writing: "Pitiless war leader, pillager, butcher of Jews and   polygamous, this is how Mohammed is revealed by the Qur'an." He received   death threats and went into hiding.[44]   The teacher was forced into hiding after describing the Qu'ran as a   "book of extraordinary violence" and Islam as "a religion which ...   exalts violence and hate."[45]
> 
> 
> On 4 August 2007, Ehsan Jami was attacked in his hometown of Voorburg in The Netherlands by three men. The attack is widely believed to be linked to his activities for the Central Committee for Ex-Muslims.   The national anti-terrorism coordinator's office, the public   prosecution department and the police decided during a meeting on 6   August that "additional measures" were necessary for the protection of   Jami, who subsequently received extra security.[46]
> "Hatred towards people who follow other religions such as Jews and   Christians, as well as Hindus and other polytheists, are a part of the   teachings of the Islamic holy book, the Qur'an."[47]


[/QUOTE]



*Don't miss all three posts from Wiki on Muslim violence and terrorism.  It is quite a list!*


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## Beachboy

Beachboy said:


> *Ayatollah *
> 
> "Perhaps the most resounding call to jihad in modern times occurred on 21 January 1979," suggest authors, as the Ayatollah Khomeini announced a Jihad against the US. "The people have absolute confidence in their victory in this holy war (jihad-e moqaddas)," said the Islamic icon.[48]
> Ayatollah Khomeini's "Radical Islamic Revolution executed and killed hundreds of thousands of people in the name of Radical Islam."[49]
> Iran, under the Ayatollah Khomeini, categorized the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq war as a 'Holy war'.[50] "Khomeini's call to jihad incited thousands of Iranian teenagers to volunteer for martyrdom missions."[48] The Basiji movement 'created' child and adult sacrifice as "holy soldiers,"[51] Blessed by Iranian mullahs' regime.[52]
> The Basiji ideology enjoys a revival under Iran's president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad,[51] who is a member.[53]       The movement has a nominal strength of 12.6 million, and has been       present in schools since it was first created in 1979 by the   Ayatollah.[54] Basijis were used in crackdowns in 1999, in 2003[55] and in the brutality of 2009 on protesters in Iran.[56]
> The group demands in training intense Quran       studies, it calls for Basij Ethics and Etiquette and Major    Islamic    Commandments. The Basijis have been known to act in    defending a  strict   Islamic conduct."[57] and enforcing Sharia law.[58] often "merging" with Ansar-e Hezbollah men in enforcing Sharia law.[55] In one example, Human rights       activists charged that Basiji Islamic militiamen have raped and       murdered 26 year old Elnaz Babazadeh for wearing an improper dress.[59]
> On 19 August 1979 the Ayatollah declared a jihad against the Kurds in Iran. "Once jihad is declared, all males over 15 must join the fight, the enemy's property is open to confiscation."[60]
> "Ayatollah Khomeini played on the messianic overtones of this belief       during the Iranian revolution." The ideology of "Twelver" in Shiite       Islam (return of the 12th Imam  belief) was invoked by many who       believed that the Ayatollah will "return" as their Mahdi (Islamic Messiah). Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad       refocuses this belief of the Mahdi's return by public statements   and     various symbolic actions, Iraq's Shiite al-Sadr's army is called   the  Mahdi army.[61]
> *Mujahedin *
> 
> In 1979 Afghanistan, local Muslim rebels began fighting the Soviets army, calling themselves Mujahideen, they used guerrilla war.[62]
> Author of the book _Holy war_ Wilhelm Dietl accounted how one Mujahed fighter told him en route to an armed attack in Herat: "We love to kill Russians and to be killed."[63]
> *Taliban *
> 
> Some of the Taliban have fought against the Soviets in the 1980s. They battle to conquer the country.[64] Many Madrassas endorse Jihad in Pakistan and in Afghanistan.[65]
> In the 1980s, the _Afghan jihad_ had been financed by Saudi Arabia[66] as well as other countries including the United States of America.[_citation needed_]
> *Saddam Hussein *
> 
> Saddam Hussein warned of a jihad against the United States in 1991.[67]       In 2003, after the March 20 US, British led invasion of Iraq,   Saddam     Hussein called for a holy war against "an aggression on the   land of     Islam." (invoking the Quranic theme: "Fight them everywhere...")[68]       The statement accused the coalition forces of waging a war against       Islam. His information Minister conlcuding: "Therefore, jihad is a    duty    in confronting them... Those who are martyred will be  rewarded   in    heaven. Seize the opportunity, my brothers."[69]
> *Laskar Jihad *
> 
> The paramilitary organisation Laskar Jihad called "to wage a jihad or holy war" into Indonesia's Moluccan islands, and carried out anti-Christian attacks in Sulawesi,[70] the same group was involved in the 1999 violence against Christians and Chinese[71] in East Timor.[72] It has been categorized as "Indonesia's Dirty Little Holy War Holy Terror.[70]
> *Hezbollah *
> 
> Hezbollah's spiritual guidance, Sheik Muhammed Hussein Fadlallah, who witnessing journalist says was behind the hostage crisis in Lebanon in the 1980s,[73] said: "We see ourselves as _mujihadeen_ who fight a Holy War." Justifying bombings, kidnapping, murder.[74]
> However British journalist Robert Fisk disputes these claims about Fadlallh:The Americans put it about that he had blessed the suicide bomber   who     struck the US marine base in Beirut in 1983, killing 241 service       personnel. Fadlallah always denied this to me and I believe him.   Suicide     bombers, however insane we regard them, don't need to be   blessed;   they   think they are doing God's duty without any help from a   marja   like   Fadlallah.​[75]
> *Omar al-Bashir *
> 
> "In the present conflict in Darfur, jihad is usually interpreted as holy war by the government in Khartoum."[76] The Sudanese National Islamic Front declared in 1992 a _jihad,_ or holy war, against all in the Nuba Mountains who supported the SPLA."[77][78]
> Sudan's leader Omar Al-Bashir, in 1997 "declared a jihad (holy war) against" Ethiopia.[79] Accused of genocide he threatened in 2007 "to mount a jihad against United Nations peacekeepers."[80]
> *Wahabbists *
> 
> The Whabbists have a long history of fundamentalism and jihad,       declaring holy wars on others, to force them into accepting their       purified version of Islam[81]
> In 2010, a 'Glut of fatwas spurred Saudi king to impose curbs,' Saudi       political analyst explaining: "If you endorse jihad, it means you  are      searching for a war with the rest of the world."[82]
> Some militant Islamic movements cite Saudi Wahhabi clerics to justify violence.[83]
> Saudi Grand Mufti Ibn Baz repudiated violence. He stated:From that which is known to everyone who has the slightest bit of       common sense is that hijacking airplanes and kidnapping children and   the     like are extremely great crimes, the world over. Their evil   effects    are  far and wide, as is the great harm and inconvenience   caused to  the    innocent; the total effect of which none can   comprehend except  Allaah.​[84]
> *Terrorism *
> 
> Main article: Islam and terrorism
> *Islamic terrorism* is terrorism[85] committed by Islamists, and aimed at achieving varying political ends[86] and the advancement of Islamist goals; for example, Osama bin Laden's stated goal of ending American military presence in the Middle East and the Arabian Peninsula,[87][87] overthrowing Arab regimes he considers corrupt and insufficiently religious,[87] and stopping American support for Israel.[88] Bombing in London 7/7 are said to be in retaliation for UK's support in the war in Iraq that began in 2003, though it can't be linked as a motive for Islamic terror plots on London, December, 2001.[89][90] The Islamic terrorism       attack in Madrid were "explained" as "inspired by al-Qaeda's call   to     punish Spain's government for supporting the Iraq war," another    motive    was given that Spain holds a strong appeal to Islamic    militants  because   the southern region of Andalucia was under Muslim    control for  almost  800  years, and "Al-Qaeda has called on jihadists    to reconquer  Spain as  part  of a broader Muslim caliphate, or kingdom under Islamic rule."[91][92]
> At the 2008 Mumbai attacks, the Islamic terrorists were told by their handlers in Pakistan "that the lives of Jews were worth 50 times those of non-Jews."[93]
> The Qur'an: (8:12): "...cast terror in their hearts and strike upon their necks."[94] The _commanded to terrorize the disbelievers_ have been cited in motivation of Jihadi terror.[95][96][97][98]
> A Jihadi cleric:"Another aim and objective of jihad is to      drive terror in the hearts  of the [infidels]. To terrorize them.  Did     you know that we were  commanded in the Qur'an with terrorism?    ...Allah   said, and prepare for  them to the best of your ability with    power, and   with horses of war. To  drive terror in the hearts of my    enemies,   Allah's enemies, and your  enemies. And other enemies  which   you don't   know, only Allah knows  them... So we were commanded  to   drive terror   into the hearts of the  [infidels], to prepare for  them   with the best of   our abilities with  power. Then the Prophet  said,   nay, the power is   your ability to shoot.  The power which you  are   commanded with here, is   your ability to shoot.  Another aim and    objective of jihad is to kill   the [infidels], to lessen  the    population of the [infidels]... it is not   right for a Prophet to  have    captives until he makes the Earth warm   with blood... so, you should     always seek to lessen the population of   the [infidels]."[99]​Observers have also argued that the attacks are aimed at propagating Islamic culture, society and values in opposition to perceived political, imperialistic, and/or cultural influences of non-Muslims, and the Western world in particular.[100][101]
> There are also historical dimensions to the phenomenon, and the history of Western influence and control after the fall of the Ottoman Empire       in 1918, is a common stated reason used within some terrorist   groups    to  justify and explain its use of violence as resistive and     retributive   against western influences.
> *World domination *
> 
> The strive to an 'Islamic Caliphate.' Caliph is translated from the Arabic *Khalifa* (&#1582;&#1604;&#1610;&#1601;&#1577; &#7830;al&#299;fä) meaning "successor", "substitute", or "lieutenant". It is used in the Qur'an to establish Adam's role as representative of Allah on earth. Kalifa is also used to describe the belief that man's role, in his real nature, is as khalifa or viceroy to Allah.[102] The word is also most commonly used for the Islamic leader of the Ummah; starting with Muhammad and his line of successors.
> Indeed, domination is the ultimate goal of jihadists.[103][104] Al-Qaeda revealed its grand plan towards an Islamic caliphate,[105] - global domination.[106] Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's Al-Qaeda in Iraq, has released a statement in which it explains the reasons for its terror campaign:"We are not fighting to chase out the occupier or to save national       unity and keep the borders outlined by the infidels intact," [...]   "We     are fighting because it is a religious duty to do it, just as  it  is a     duty to take the Sharia [Islamic law] to the government and   create  an    Islamic state."[107]​"Al-Qaeda has called on jihadists to reconquer Spain as part of a broader Muslim caliphate, or kingdom under Islamic rule."[91] Explaining why even Hamas has an eye on Spain.[92] In the early 1990s, the GIA       Algerian Armed Islamist Group, which is "well known for its  radical      positions and the barbaric violence of its operations,  announced  the     restoration of the caliphate and the appointment of a  caliph."[108] With Palestinian Islamic party Hamas victory in the 2007 election, a mass gathering followed with Hamas' spokesman calling for a Caliphate.[109] The official said Hamas seeks to create an "Islamic caliphate" in the land.[110][111]
> 
> *Note how Muslims quickly disappear  when confronted with three giant sized postings of their violence and  terrorism?  *
> 
> * What they do is indefensible, which is why they keep trying  distractions from the facts.*
> 
> *Muslims are scared to death you will understand the truth about them.  *





*Don't miss all three posts from Wiki on Muslim violence and terrorism.  It is quite a list!*


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## ABikerSailor

WTF BitchBoi?  Are you so fucking insecure and thinking your message will never be heard that you have to re-post it several times?

But then again.........................anyone as shallow as you pretty much gives off the message that you're never heard, except by those as shallow and stupid as yourself.


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## Osomir

I don't know about anyone else but I haven't read a single link that you have posted. What would entice us to do so given the absurd nature of your presentation and ranting style?


----------



## Beachboy

ABikerSailor said:


> WTF BitchBoi?  Are you so fucking insecure   and thinking your message will never be heard that you have to re-post   it several times?
> 
> But then again.........................anyone as shallow as you pretty   much gives off the message that you're never heard, except by those as   shallow and stupid as yourself.



The thing I find most amazing about your posting is that you type every   little thought that enters your mind, but never hit the subject of this   thread.  The truth of the OP is undeniable.  It is a simple fact.    Granted clarification could be made by any poster, but you missed even   that!



> *If we did not allow Muslim foreigners into the United States**......there would not have been a Boston Marathon bombing.  Duh!*


It   about as profound as saying, "If there had never been Nazi's,  Italians,  or Japanese.....there would never have been a WWII!  It is  you and your  Muslim crowd that have turned this thread into a circus.

Now as to my three posts that list global Muslim violence and terrorism   being repeated, it is because you can not refute this truth.  A truth   you asked that I produced.  When I did you ignored it ~ ~ "Hit and Run"   posting, a Muslim trademark.

Oh, my friend this thread is coming to an end.  It has been incredibly   successful at bringing the average American up-to-date on the Muslim   threat.  All your noise has helped bring *10,443* viewers in here to read my links and view my graphics.  Thank you, fool.


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## Osomir

Oh look another insecure repost.


----------



## Beachboy

Now let me see if I understand this correctly.

I am asked to prove that Muslims are violent terrorists.

I post three giant links from Wiki listing a plethora of Muslim violence.

Suddenly, all the Muslim types have nothing to post.

So, I post it again, noting that Muslims have no defense for their violence.

Then you post here, without links or anything to support a word you say.

You call me "insecure" for reposting the facts?

And you people wonder why no one takes your bull shit violent, so_called "religion" seriously?

You are just a bunch of brian-washed third world thugs, and everyone knows it.


----------



## beagle9

Beachboy said:


> Now let me see if I understand this correctly.
> 
> I am asked to prove that Muslims are violent terrorists.
> 
> I post three giant links from Wiki listing a plethora of Muslim violence.
> 
> Suddenly, all the Muslim types have nothing to post.
> 
> So, I post it again, noting that Muslims have no defense for their violence.
> 
> Then you post here, without links or anything to support a word you say.
> 
> You call me "insecure" for reposting the facts?
> 
> And you people wonder why no one takes your bull shit violent, so_called "religion" seriously?
> 
> You are just a bunch of brian-washed third world thugs, and everyone knows it.


Man who is that those people are whooping on or attempting to kill there, a child ?   So sad. I take note of all the other people just walking by like nothing to see here folks just move along..


----------



## PoliticalStench

Pogo said:


> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The answer to you post on an "eye for an eye" is so obvious, I am not going to address it.
> 
> "The ProfEt" is not worth the paper it is printed on, when it comes to solving *real world* problems.  If you like fiction, fine.  But, keep it out of the political threads.
> 
> Why am I not surprised that you are hung up on things not of this world?  Did you even look to see what the subject of this thread is before you posted?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know what reality is when you see it?  Is anything getting through the bubble you live in?​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for posting the pictures of the radicals and their posters that let the world know who they are. More freedom loving people need to see that.  "Freedom go to hell?" What a foolish, suicidal person. And his or her face is covered...probably afraid of losing welfare bennies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because it's obviously photoshopped by paragons of intellectualism such as yourself.  And the OP.  And you both fell for it.
> 
> Check the one sign out: "Demolition is on *it's*".  Nobody makes that kind of spelling mistake outside of Ignoramistan.
> 
> This thread should be renamed, "Gullible's Travels".
Click to expand...


Obviously, you have more experience with photoshopping than I.  The butchers' bloody hands in the streets of London weren't photoshopped nor were videos of Americans heads being sawed off--yes, sawed off, not chopped-- by rabid death-worshiping Jihadis, as they screamed and gurgling on their blood. 

And that's not funny. 

Yes. You are five years old.


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## Pogo

PoliticalStench said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for posting the pictures of the radicals and their posters that let the world know who they are. More freedom loving people need to see that.  "Freedom go to hell?" What a foolish, suicidal person. And his or her face is covered...probably afraid of losing welfare bennies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's because it's obviously photoshopped by paragons of intellectualism such as yourself.  And the OP.  And you both fell for it.
> 
> Check the one sign out: "Demolition is on *it's*".  Nobody makes that kind of spelling mistake outside of Ignoramistan.
> 
> This thread should be renamed, "Gullible's Travels".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Obviously, you have more experience with photoshopping than I.  The butchers' bloody hands in the streets of London weren't photoshopped nor were videos of Americans heads being sawed off--yes, sawed off, not chopped-- by rabid death-worshiping Jihadis, as they screamed and gurgling on their blood.
> 
> And that's not funny.
> 
> Yes. You are five years old.
Click to expand...


Obviously I have enough sense to see a picture of foreign demonstrators all holding signs written in perfect English in exactly the same lettering.  Duh?

Shall we do this _again_?






















Hint: you're being duped here and hair-on-fire wackos like Bleach Boy are too dense to see it .
This one is kinda clever though:






Notice the same lettering *yet again*?

Don't strain yourself thinking now...


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## Kondor3

Fine...

Then *DO* try to explain-away this video-clip as a fake, made by a young woman from Luton, U.K. - 4 mins 36 secs running time... it gets even more interesting beyond the half-way mark... as we hear from the Muslim man-on-the-street about how they perceive the Law of the host countries in which they live...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psZBaJU_Cvo]The Horrific Muslim Infiltration Of Britain - Luton 2012 - YouTube[/ame]

The only question is, does this represent the stereotypical (average) British Muslim's opinion?

Which translates, of course, into the stereotypical Muslim's opinion in any country where they are a foreign minority...


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## antiquity

Here is something very interesting.



> August 30, 2011, - 4:19 pm
> Pew Report: 1/3 of US Muslims Support Al Qaeda, Suicide Bombs; 25% Came to US Under Bush, Obama



Pew Report: 1/3 of US Muslims Support Al Qaeda, Suicide Bombs; 25% Came to US Under Bush, Obama

 Yup, nearly one out of four Arab Muslims in America says it&#8217;s okay to blow you up.  And those are the ones who openly said so to Pew.  Again, the number is far higher in reality.  In 2011, 31% of Muslims aged 18-29 said suicide bombings are okay&#8211;that&#8217;s one in three young Muslims in America, who thinks it&#8217;s okay to blow you and your families up.


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## Beachboy

PoliticalStench said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalStench said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for posting the pictures of the radicals and their posters that let the world know who they are. More freedom loving people need to see that.  "Freedom go to hell?" What a foolish, suicidal person. And his or her face is covered...probably afraid of losing welfare bennies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's because it's obviously photoshopped by paragons of intellectualism such as yourself.  And the OP.  And you both fell for it.
> 
> Check the one sign out: "Demolition is on *it's*".  Nobody makes that kind of spelling mistake outside of Ignoramistan.
> 
> This thread should be renamed, "Gullible's Travels".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Obviously, you have more experience with photoshopping than I.  The butchers' bloody hands in the streets of London weren't photoshopped nor were videos of Americans heads being sawed off--yes, sawed off, not chopped-- by rabid death-worshiping Jihadis, as they screamed and gurgling on their blood.
> 
> And that's not funny.
> 
> Yes. You are five years old.
Click to expand...


*Asked and answered. * This has been debunked so many times, I am not going to dig out my original response any more.  When demonstrations of a political nature there is someone who makes to posters.  Often they look the same.  Here a link to Google images with many, many moronic Muslim posters.   https://www.google.com/search?q=mus...GbygH7n4HAAw&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=933  Are they all photoshop and held by actors?  Moron.   

You third worlders are out of steam.  Reptetion of the same lie will not make it true, but let's face it defending Muslims is an impossible task.  Everyone hate Muslims.  They are too much trouble.  Read this thread, it is all the proof you need!




​ 
This pretty much sums up the thinking of most Americans about Muslims.
Islam is not compatible with America.  Time to dump the Muslims.​


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