# Concealed carry: what are my options?



## BaronVonBigmeat

Okay so I live in Texas, where you can get a concealed carry permit. I'm familiar with shotguns, but I've never owned a pistol. I'm researching several different guns (probably a glock or a sig?), and hopefully I'll get to try out a few different guns at a range before I buy. That's what I've been told to do, anyhow. Any suggestions? I'd rather not have anything smaller than 9mm.

My bigger question though is: how do you conceal, when the weather is too hot to wear a sports coat? Jeans and a t-shirt, or dockers and a golf shirt, is the only thing you can comfortably wear for 8 months out of the year in Houston.

Do I need to find a gun I can carry in my pocket? I've seen these holsters you wear inside your pants, but they seem kind of wacky, I mean what do you do if you're at a gas station during a stickup--start unbuckling your pants to get to your gun? Ha ha. 

I'm not buying the whole "come on, it's not going to happen" argument--my neighbor's family has had no less than three incidents in the past few years where a concealed gun saved the day, plus a cowoker used his to scare off a couple of burglars without firing a shot. 

Thoughts?


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## RetiredGySgt

9mm is more than enough. I like the military style the Marine Corps has, they use Berretas, but Taurus makes one just like it.

DO NOT buy a cheap gun. I mean one made by a minor gun manufacturer. Get several magazines and remember the metal spring will wear down if you keep the magazine loaded all the time. Then you will not get ammo feed and your weapon will jam.

Not sure what to tell you about clothing.


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## Diuretic

You can buy pants with concealed pockets, they're branded Tac wear or something similar.  I have a pair but I don't own a personal firearm so I don't know if it's practical to carry a handgun in them.  

Found the website - Tac Wear: Introduces Cordura Base Layer

If you visit you should know the Flash intro is noisy, just in case someone around you is easily startled.


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## Lycurgus

At times I carry a S&W 908 / 9mm and use Federal Hyra Shok loads. That is more than enough gun. There are also some really nice compact .40 cal. or .45 cal out there. I like the 908 it has been a solid firearm, shoots well and the recoil for me is next to nothing. It carries tucked away really easily. 

If you are uncomfortable with a semi auto then a small snub nose .38 +P revolver is a solid personal protection choise or you can check out the smaller .357 8 round revolver, S&W make a couple nice models.

I carry a .38 derringer as a backup.


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## Gunny

BaronVonBigmeat said:


> Okay so I live in Texas, where you can get a concealed carry permit. I'm familiar with shotguns, but I've never owned a pistol. I'm researching several different guns (probably a glock or a sig?), and hopefully I'll get to try out a few different guns at a range before I buy. That's what I've been told to do, anyhow. Any suggestions? I'd rather not have anything smaller than 9mm.
> 
> My bigger question though is: how do you conceal, when the weather is too hot to wear a sports coat? Jeans and a t-shirt, or dockers and a golf shirt, is the only thing you can comfortably wear for 8 months out of the year in Houston.
> 
> Do I need to find a gun I can carry in my pocket? I've seen these holsters you wear inside your pants, but they seem kind of wacky, I mean what do you do if you're at a gas station during a stickup--start unbuckling your pants to get to your gun? Ha ha.
> 
> I'm not buying the whole "come on, it's not going to happen" argument--my neighbor's family has had no less than three incidents in the past few years where a concealed gun saved the day, plus a cowoker used his to scare off a couple of burglars without firing a shot.
> 
> Thoughts?



Definitely try out as many different handguns as you can before you buy one.

What you carry is dictated by how you dress.  The way you are talking about dressing I would suggest a Walther PPK/S .380 as the largest you go.  You are not going to conceal a full-size handgun wearing jeans and a t-shirt.  

Based on the jeans and t-shirt, I would suggest an ankle holster with an AMT Backup .380.  If you wear baggy jeans and t-shirts, you could go with an in-the-pants holster (it clips to your waistband/belt) so you don't have to strip to draw.

Don't know if you are into it, but a fanny pack is a good place to conceal a small auto.  They also make a wallet that conceals a derringer.

It also depends on how you are built.  I carry a Walther PPK in an in-the-pants holster in the small of my back.  But I have a small waist and large back and chest so a baggy shirt conceals it nicely.


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## dilloduck

Gunny said:


> Definitely try out as many different handguns as you can before you buy one.
> 
> What you carry is dictated by how you dress.  The way you are talking about dressing I would suggest a Walther PPK/S .380 as the largest you go.  You are not going to conceal a full-size handgun wearing jeans and a t-shirt.
> 
> Based on the jeans and t-shirt, I would suggest an ankle holster with an AMT Backup .380.  If you wear baggy jeans and t-shirts, you could go with an in-the-pants holster (it clips to your waistband/belt) so you don't have to strip to draw.
> 
> Don't know if you are into it, but a fanny pack is a good place to conceal a small auto.  They also make a wallet that conceals a derringer.
> 
> It also depends on how you are built.  I carry a Walther PPK in an in-the-pants holster in the small of my back.  But I have a small waist and large back and chest so a baggy shirt conceals it nicely.



I heartily on shopping around. Years ago I bought a 9 mm Ruger--simple and rugged but too big to carry and conceal especially in warm weather. Looking for something smaller to carry as we speak.


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## pegwinn

First go to the range and figure out what you like before worrying how to dress. A small frame weapon with a bore of .40 or more is going to recoil the hell out of your hand and elbow if you have to snap shoot. Check out the .380 using appropriate ammo.

Then go to the range and practice, practice, practice. Work your way up to a competent El Presidente course.

Finally, ALWAYS keep a shotgun in the home and car for defensive purposes. If you are using a handgun for self defense then your enemy is already danger close.


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## xsited1

It sounds like you'll find the right gun.  I second the point about buying a cheap...  DON'T.  Here's how I carry mine (Taurus9mm, BTW):

Uncle Mike's - Gun Pak Belt Pouch Holsters

and I also have this:

http://www.uncle-mikes.com/products/inside_the_pant_holsters.html

I like 9mm:

The Best Nines - Best 9mm Pistol Site handgun review test gun dealer auction


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## Gunny

dilloduck said:


> I heartily on shopping around. Years ago I bought a 9 mm Ruger--simple and rugged but too big to carry and conceal especially in warm weather. Looking for something smaller to carry as we speak.



As I stated previously, and PEGWINN did after your post, a .380 is a good carry gun.  I happen to prefer the Walther PPK/S, but it IS a bit pricey for a medium-frame handgun.  

There are plenty of relatively inexpensive .380s on the market.


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## CrimsonWhite

BaronVonBigmeat said:


> Okay so I live in Texas, where you can get a concealed carry permit. I'm familiar with shotguns, but I've never owned a pistol. I'm researching several different guns (probably a glock or a sig?), and hopefully I'll get to try out a few different guns at a range before I buy. That's what I've been told to do, anyhow. Any suggestions? I'd rather not have anything smaller than 9mm.
> 
> My bigger question though is: how do you conceal, when the weather is too hot to wear a sports coat? Jeans and a t-shirt, or dockers and a golf shirt, is the only thing you can comfortably wear for 8 months out of the year in Houston.
> 
> Do I need to find a gun I can carry in my pocket? I've seen these holsters you wear inside your pants, but they seem kind of wacky, I mean what do you do if you're at a gas station during a stickup--start unbuckling your pants to get to your gun? Ha ha.
> 
> I'm not buying the whole "come on, it's not going to happen" argument--my neighbor's family has had no less than three incidents in the past few years where a concealed gun saved the day, plus a cowoker used his to scare off a couple of burglars without firing a shot.
> 
> Thoughts?



A four inch DAO pistol (Glock 19 or 22, S&W M&P40 or 9, Springfield XD) is easily concealed in the type of clothing you wear. I carried in Alabama in the weather conditions wearing the same clothing. Inside the waistband holsters have to be used, but you can carry a serious caliber comfortably. Also, check out the Walther PPS, it is as thin as the PPK, but chambered in 9MM and .40 S&W. Personally, I carry a Kimber Ultra Carry, because personal defense begins with the numbers 4 and 5.


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## Gunny

CrimsonWhite said:


> A four inch DAO pistol (Glock 19 or 22, S&W M&P40 or 9, Springfield XD) is easily concealed in the type of clothing you wear. I carried in Alabama in the weather conditions wearing the same clothing. Inside the waistband holsters have to be used, but you can carry a serious caliber comfortably. Also, check out the Walther PPS, it is as thin as the PPK, but chambered in 9MM and .40 S&W. Personally, I carry a Kimber Ultra Carry, because personal defense begins with the numbers 4 and 5.



That's under-the-seat weaponry.  I keep a S&W Model 4506 and two spare mags there.  

Personal defense begins with hitting your target and a .380 will drop you just as dead as .45 provided you hit what you're aiming at.  I prefer .45 ACPs however, I do not like the compact ones.  I will carry a full-size .45 before I will a compact one.  They just don't feel right to me.


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## Svante

BaronVonBigmeat said:


> Okay so I live in Texas, where you can get a concealed carry permit. I'm familiar with shotguns, but I've never owned a pistol. I'm researching several different guns (probably a glock or a sig?), and hopefully I'll get to try out a few different guns at a range before I buy. That's what I've been told to do, anyhow. Any suggestions? I'd rather not have anything smaller than 9mm.
> 
> My bigger question though is: how do you conceal, when the weather is too hot to wear a sports coat? Jeans and a t-shirt, or dockers and a golf shirt, is the only thing you can comfortably wear for 8 months out of the year in Houston.
> 
> Do I need to find a gun I can carry in my pocket? I've seen these holsters you wear inside your pants, but they seem kind of wacky, I mean what do you do if you're at a gas station during a stickup--start unbuckling your pants to get to your gun? Ha ha.
> 
> I'm not buying the whole "come on, it's not going to happen" argument--my neighbor's family has had no less than three incidents in the past few years where a concealed gun saved the day, plus a cowoker used his to scare off a couple of burglars without firing a shot.
> 
> Thoughts?



m y dad he dont like holster.he carry the gun i n stor o f the jackan, the pocket.h e have       
 speciial make for this.


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## Missourian

BaronVonBigmeat said:


> Okay so I live in Texas, where you can get a concealed carry permit. I'm familiar with shotguns, but I've never owned a pistol. I'm researching several different guns (probably a glock or a sig?), and hopefully I'll get to try out a few different guns at a range before I buy. That's what I've been told to do, anyhow. Any suggestions? I'd rather not have anything smaller than 9mm.
> 
> My bigger question though is: how do you conceal, when the weather is too hot to wear a sports coat? Jeans and a t-shirt, or dockers and a golf shirt, is the only thing you can comfortably wear for 8 months out of the year in Houston.
> 
> Do I need to find a gun I can carry in my pocket? I've seen these holsters you wear inside your pants, but they seem kind of wacky, I mean what do you do if you're at a gas station during a stickup--start unbuckling your pants to get to your gun? Ha ha.
> 
> I'm not buying the whole "come on, it's not going to happen" argument--my neighbor's family has had no less than three incidents in the past few years where a concealed gun saved the day, plus a cowoker used his to scare off a couple of burglars without firing a shot.
> 
> Thoughts?




I really like this guys videos and agree with his "anything is better than nothing" philosophy:

[youtube]6gIHDHZf1TA&feature=channel_page[/youtube]


Get a smaller firearm to carry on those warmer days.

Check out my http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...out-buying-your-first-handgun.html#post960485 thread.


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## CrimsonWhite

Gunny said:


> That's under-the-seat weaponry.  I keep a S&W Model 4506 and two spare mags there.
> 
> Personal defense begins with hitting your target and a .380 will drop you just as dead as .45 provided you hit what you're aiming at.  I prefer .45 ACPs however, I do not like the compact ones.  I will carry a full-size .45 before I will a compact one.  They just don't feel right to me.



No need to put anything under the seat. I keep it on my hip. If I'm wearing pants, I have a weapon.


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## dilloduck

CrimsonWhite said:


> No need to put anything under the seat. I keep it on my hip. If I'm wearing pants, I have a weapon.



Ever hunted with a pistol ?


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## CrimsonWhite

dilloduck said:


> Ever hunted with a pistol ?



Not animals.


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## Lycurgus

Gunny is correct on carry to your dress code and make sure your very comfortable. I rarely ever carry a full frame gun. Also many new gun buyers get sucked into a caliber myth. They believe that a large caliber is going to provide better protection. 

I am a tee shirt and shorts guy. Even on one of the bikess. Now I'm a big guy so even then I can get away with carrying a small frame 9mm, but, I often opt for my North American Arms .22 mag. and I feel very safe with it.

The Walther .380 for me is a wonderful gun to carry. And Glock makes a really nice compact .357 

Gunny is correct, go to the local range and they will let you shoot an assortment of guns. Get their advice, speak to them about clothing, life style and so on. Let those with years of experience help you! I feel that I am very competent with a gun, but, I seek advice all the time. When at the range I can learn something from just about everyone there.


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## Skull Pilot

Semmerling LM4: a classic case of too innovative too soon | American Handgunner | Find Articles at BNET

*The LM4 is about the same size as a High Standard derringer. Overall length was a scant 5.2" long with 3.45" of that barrel, a remarkable feat allowing the .45 to achieve full muzzle velocity and very little flash. The gun was only slightly higher than a stack of five .45s, coming in at 3.7" tall. A Semmerling is very thin as well, at less than 1" thick. Take off the grips and add the "thin kit" and you're down to .85". That's a 5.2" x 3.7" x .85" package, making the LM4 an inch smaller than a Walther PPK, or about the size of a TPH! In a world being offered the Seecamp .380, the Semmerling was a "gorilla gun" at only 1" longer.*


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## pegwinn

And to add another variable to the mix:

Are you prepared to kill someone? I know that it sounds academic on this forum, but you'd be surprised at the number of trained folks who froze at the wrong moment. There is no point in being armed unless you have done the soul searching required to actually place rounds on a living target and flatline the EKG.

Finally, you  mentioned being familiar with shotguns. Remember to keep two, one in the car and one in the house. Load the house gun first round with birdshot so it won't penetrate walls and endanger your kids or grands. The second round is slug or shot as you can then aim in and kill your opponent.

Never, ever, ever, give a verbal warning or fire warning shots. Your enemy has already announced his intentions. You must be prepared to put him down like a rabid dog.

I know this is off your original question. Sorry bout that.


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## Missourian

I took my CCW qualification today and learned a few things I didn't know. 

For example, in Missouri you can legally carry a loaded handgun concealed under the seat or in the glovebox of your vehicle *without* being CCW qualified.


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## Gunny

CrimsonWhite said:


> No need to put anything under the seat. I keep it on my hip. If I'm wearing pants, I have a weapon.



Like I said, what's under the seat is the heavy artillery.  Full size auto, loaded, two spare mags.  Just in case I decide to engage in a small war.


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## Gunny

pegwinn said:


> And to add another variable to the mix:
> 
> Are you prepared to kill someone? I know that it sounds academic on this forum, but you'd be surprised at the number of trained folks who froze at the wrong moment. There is no point in being armed unless you have done the soul searching required to actually place rounds on a living target and flatline the EKG.
> 
> Finally, you  mentioned being familiar with shotguns. Remember to keep two, one in the car and one in the house. Load the house gun first round with birdshot so it won't penetrate walls and endanger your kids or grands. The second round is slug or shot as you can then aim in and kill your opponent.
> 
> Never, ever, ever, give a verbal warning or fire warning shots. Your enemy has already announced his intentions. You must be prepared to put him down like a rabid dog.
> 
> I know this is off your original question. Sorry bout that.



What's a warning shot?  WARNING:  You are now dead.


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## pegwinn

Gunny said:


> What's a warning shot?  WARNING:  You are now dead.



Y'know, I heard that there are actually states that require you to give warnings and actually let the guy go if he tries to CSMO. Not Texas thank God.


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## Gunny

Missourian said:


> I took my CCW qualification today and learned a few things I didn't know.
> 
> For example, in Missouri you can legally carry a loaded handgun concealed under the seat or in the glovebox of your vehicle *without* being CCW qualified.



Same in Texas.  I think the one caveat is you have to cross county lines.  I'm in and out of 3-4 different ones daily.

You can legally carry under the seat in Florida as well.


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## Gunny

pegwinn said:


> Y'know, I heard that there are actually states that require you to give warnings and actually let the guy go if he tries to CSMO. Not Texas thank God.



I don't see the point.  If all that's needed is a warning, then why fire at all?  I wonder if there's anything else they can do to help the bad guys out?


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## editec

What a thoroughly depressing thread.

You want to know why I find this depressing?

Not because you guys own and carry guns, but because you feel you have to own and carry guns.

Is it truly that dangerous where you live? 

I mean_ so_ dangerous that the mere gun isn't enough, but you need multiple clips and shotguns under your car seats because you might find yourselves in an extended shootout?!

If civilization is truly falling down on the job _that_ badly, why on earth are _any _of you and _your FAMILIES_ living there?

Jesus, is it really_ that dangerous!?_

I was caught in the race riots in the late 60s, lived in a Black neighborhood in Queens in the 70s; I lived in SoCA in the mid 70s, and downtown Boston for a decade til the mid 80s. I wasn't wealthy, I didn't live in good neighborhoods I tended to hang out with disreputable people and party with all sorts of lowlife and nobody -- _absolutely nobody_ --felt like we had the need to carry for protection.

Have things really gone that far South since I left civilization for the hinterlands of Maine?


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## CrimsonWhite

editec said:


> What a thoroughly depressing thread.
> 
> You want to know why I find this depressing?
> 
> Not because you guys own and carry guns, but because you feel you have to own and carry guns.
> 
> Is it truly that dangerous where you live?
> 
> I mean_ so_ dangerous that the mere gun isn't enough, but you need multiple clips and shotguns under your car seats because you might find yourselves in an extended shootout?!
> 
> If civilization is truly falling down on the job _that_ badly, why on earth are _any _of you and _your FAMILIES_ living there?
> 
> Jesus, is it really_ that dangerous!?_
> 
> I was caught in the race riots in the late 60s, lived in a Black neighborhood in Queens in the 70s; I lived in SoCA in the mid 70s, and downtown Boston for a decade til the mid 80s. I wasn't wealthy, I didn't live in good neighborhoods I tended to hang out with disreputable people and party with all sorts of lowlife and nobody -- _absolutely nobody_ --felt like we had the need to carry for protection.
> 
> Have things really gone that far South since I left civilization for the hinterlands of Maine?



It isn't that we feel that we need to. It is simply a matter of having the Constitutional right to do so.


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## Missourian

editec said:


> What a thoroughly depressing thread.
> 
> You want to know why I find this depressing?
> 
> Not because you guys own and carry guns, but because you feel you have to own and carry guns.
> 
> Is it truly that dangerous where you live?
> 
> I mean_ so_ dangerous that the mere gun isn't enough, but you need multiple clips and shotguns under your car seats because you might find yourselves in an extended shootout?!
> 
> If civilization is truly falling down on the job _that_ badly, why on earth are _any _of you and _your FAMILIES_ living there?
> 
> Jesus, is it really_ that dangerous!?_
> 
> I was caught in the race riots in the late 60s, lived in a Black neighborhood in Queens in the 70s; I lived in SoCA in the mid 70s, and downtown Boston for a decade til the mid 80s. I wasn't wealthy, I didn't live in good neighborhoods I tended to hang out with disreputable people and party with all sorts of lowlife and nobody -- _absolutely nobody_ --felt like we had the need to carry for protection.
> 
> Have things really gone that far South since I left civilization for the hinterlands of Maine?




I don't see what one has to do with the other.

I'm sure your not expressing the opinion that crime does not occur,  we both known it does, all too frequently.

It has to do with preparedness, not probability.

The probability of you getting a flat tire is relatively low, yet you carry a spare.

The probability of a tree falling on your house or a car driving thru your living room (home damage) is even lower, yet you have insurance.

The probability of your house burning down is much lower, yet you have a smoke detector, fire extinguisher and a plan of escape.


The law allows me to be prepared to defend myself.  IMO I would be foolish NOT to take advantage of the extra preparedness...that additional insurance to protect myself and my family.




Just as a reminder...the odds of death by criminal assault (lifetime) are 1 in 210.  LINK









.​


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## BaronVonBigmeat

editec said:


> What a thoroughly depressing thread.
> 
> You want to know why I find this depressing?
> 
> Not because you guys own and carry guns, but because you feel you have to own and carry guns.
> 
> Is it truly that dangerous where you live?



Yes. 

Or at least, my neighbor and my coworker's experience says yes.



editec said:


> If civilization is truly falling down on the job _that_ badly, why on earth are _any _of you and _your FAMILIES_ living there?



Well for starters, I live alone and don't have any kids that I know of. 

I would love to live in a more rural crime-free area, but it's harder to make a living away from the cities. But really though, criminals can drive. My neighbor's grandson defended himself in a somewhat dodgy part of town. His cousin defended himself in a rather nice part of town, where the dentists and lawyers live. People thought he was weird for carrying a pocket gun while he mowed his grass in an upper-class neighborhood, until some guy came up behind him and told him to go in the house.

And besides which, people are sick of running. We've spent the last 50 years moving further and further out, commuting an hour each way for some people, just to get further away from crime. We've spent obscene amounts of money sprawling out, trying to be safe, and the main thing we have to show for it is an unsustainable, oil-dependent suburbia. And now that city housing projects are being torn down and replaced with section 8 housing vouchers, criminals are spreading out everywhere, and moving away again is pointless.

Enough is enough. It's time to stop running.


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## BaronVonBigmeat

Anyway, back to gun talk.

The holsters that clip to the inside of your pants look okay. I want something I can put on rather quickly, so that fits the bill. (Anything that takes too long to put on, I'm probably going to end up not wearing it. Hey, I'm just being realistic.)

Only thing is, it kind of prevents me from tucking in my shirt, so it wouldn't be much use when I'm wearing my usual office attire. 

Fanny packs...eh. I'm really leaning towards some sort of pocket gun at this point. I'll go to the range this weekend and look at some options:

* Revolvers: S&W 642 38 special. I keep hearing this a lot on different forums. I'm a little concerned that the wheel will bulge out in my pocket. Also I hear that revolvers are harder to shoot accurately, especially if its a double action only thing like the 642? Plus, I would rather have more rounds than just five, but that may not be possible in any sort of pocket gun. 

Also I might check out some of the Taurus revolvers, but I think I would be inclined to just pay the extra for a S&W.

* Auto pistols. I'm looking at this. The .380's and 9mm all seem to carry 5+1 or 6+1...which is not a whole lot better than the revolvers. There's some Kel-Tecs and also the SCCY CPX-1, which carry 10+1, but I keep running into a lot of negative opinions about these manufacturers, concerning reliability. 

And the .32 and smaller...no thanks. I need something just small enough to fit in a pocket, but smaller just for the sake of being smaller seems pointless. Some of those guns remind me of the little palm-size squirt guns, I'm not even sure if I could handle them properly.

The 9mm guns seem like they are just about the same size as the .380s, hold the same number of rounds, but have better ammo, so I think I'd lean towards that. They show a .40 and even a .45 but I have to wonder about the kick from something like that in such a small gun.

So it seems like it's a choice of: compact, holds 10 rounds, reliability--choose any two.


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## no1tovote4

I like my Glock .40 cal for conceal carry.

It also depends on how you dress, sometimes you can limit your options...

I have a great belt holster and carry at the small of my back.  

I just don't want to always carry some of my more expensive guns, and the glock was designed for point and shoot ease at the same time as safety.  It won't go off on accident, but if you pull the trigger it will definitely shoot.


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## Missourian

Check out this NAA .22 lr mini....it might be next door to useless but better than nothing.

Yes, thats a bic lighter.















$225​


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## Gunny

Missourian said:


> Check out this NAA .22 lr mini....it might be next door to useless but better than nothing.
> 
> Yes, thats a bic lighter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> $225​



Ummm ... that's a Scripto lighter.


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## elvis

Any thoughts on glocks?


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## Missourian

elvis3577 said:


> Any thoughts on glocks?




I'd like to help you out but the grip angle of the glock never felt comfortable to me.


I've only owned pistols based on the Colt 1911 design, tho lots of folks swear by Glock.








1911 & Glock​


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## BaronVonBigmeat

I went to the gun show and looked at some guns. I was thinking pocket carry, but not anymore. The ONLY pocket gun that felt good in my hand was the S&W 642 revolver. Actually, it felt _great_ in my hands, which surprised me. The smaller guns, the Kahrs and even the baby Glocks, they were just too small. I have big hands.

So I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with a mid~full size pistol. Check out Smartcarry and the 30 pages of testimonials. As long as you're not wearing skin-tight cowboy Wranglers (you should never do this), you can carry guns as big as a full size 1911. 

Speaking of which, what's the appeal of 1911's? It's a very big gun that only holds 7+1. Nostalgia? Accuracy? Anyways, I'm thinking of getting a Springfield XD(m), in 9mm. Or maybe one of the HK's or Sigs. Actually my favorite gun at the show was a Sig Sauer 226(?), chambered in .357 sig. Big fatass grips like a baseball bat. Feels great, but probably to fat and heavy to really carry. I really wanted to like the Glocks, but yeah, the grips are just weird and distracting.


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## Dante

BaronVonBigmeat said:


> Okay so I live in Texas, where you can get a concealed carry permit. I'm familiar with shotguns, but I've never owned a pistol. I'm researching several different guns (probably a glock or a sig?), and hopefully I'll get to try out a few different guns at a range before I buy. That's what I've been told to do, anyhow. Any suggestions? I'd rather not have anything smaller than 9mm.
> 
> My bigger question though is: how do you conceal, when the weather is too hot to wear a sports coat? Jeans and a t-shirt, or dockers and a golf shirt, is the only thing you can comfortably wear for 8 months out of the year in Houston.
> 
> Do I need to find a gun I can carry in my pocket? I've seen these holsters you wear inside your pants, but they seem kind of wacky, I mean what do you do if you're at a gas station during a stickup--start unbuckling your pants to get to your gun? Ha ha.
> 
> I'm not buying the whole "come on, it's not going to happen" argument--*my neighbor's family has had no less than three incidents in the past few years where a concealed gun saved the day,* plus a cowoker used his to scare off a couple of burglars without firing a shot.
> 
> Thoughts?



did your co-worker ever think of moving or taking the victim label off their head? What fukin' neighborhod do they live in? 




seriously though, good read.


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## Dante

BaronVonBigmeat said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a thoroughly depressing thread.
> 
> You want to know why I find this depressing?
> 
> Not because you guys own and carry guns, but because you feel you have to own and carry guns.
> 
> Is it truly that dangerous where you live?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.
> 
> Or at least, my neighbor and my coworker's experience says yes.
> 
> 
> 
> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> If civilization is truly falling down on the job _that_ badly, why on earth are _any _of you and _your FAMILIES_ living there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well for starters, I live alone and don't have any kids that I know of.
> 
> I would love to live in a more rural crime-free area, but it's harder to make a living away from the cities. But really though, criminals can drive. My neighbor's grandson defended himself in a somewhat dodgy part of town. His cousin defended himself in a rather nice part of town, where the dentists and lawyers live. People thought he was weird for carrying a pocket gun while he mowed his grass in an upper-class neighborhood, until some guy came up behind him and told him to go in the house.
> 
> And besides which, people are sick of running. We've spent the last 50 years moving further and further out, commuting an hour each way for some people, just to get further away from crime. We've spent obscene amounts of money sprawling out, trying to be safe, and the main thing we have to show for it is an unsustainable, oil-dependent suburbia. And now that city housing projects are being torn down and replaced with section 8 housing vouchers, criminals are spreading out everywhere, and moving away again is pointless.
> 
> Enough is enough. It's time to stop running.
Click to expand...


so it isn't always fear that drives this but anxiety and on some level anger?

I am with editic in many ways ..as I get older though I am starting to wonder about vulnerability. What happens when the time comes that we present ourselves, whether purposefully or not, as a victim to a shithead with bad intentions? Shit happens...especially when shitheads are around.
Do I want a permit to carry? I think about it as I move along in life. 

an aside:
I've told this story a few times online..I once ...
-----------
I've told more than I usually do. It's sort of cathartic. It's a true story. The details I remember so well because they were seared into my brain as we fought. I did wonder if I was going to become a statistic...a dead one.

I'll probably delete this one. who knows.


{edit} i did


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## Missourian

BaronVonBigmeat said:


> *Speaking of which, what's the appeal of 1911's*? It's a very big gun that only holds 7+1. Nostalgia? Accuracy? Anyways, I'm thinking of getting a Springfield XD(m), in 9mm. Or maybe one of the HK's or Sigs. Actually my favorite gun at the show was a Sig Sauer 226(?), chambered in .357 sig. Big fatass grips like a baseball bat. Feels great, but probably to fat and heavy to really carry. I really wanted to like the Glocks, but yeah, the grips are just weird and distracting.


 

For me the M1911 is the sidearm I trained with in the Army just as they began it's replacement with the M9. 

It doesn't hurt that the 1911 design has 98 years of tested durability.

I don't actually own a Colt 1911, I have a more compact Star BKM 9mm based on the 1911 design.



 
The Star BKM (left) compared to the Star BM (right) model.​ 



 

This is a picture of mine with a dollar bill to give some perspective.​ 
I holds 8+1 and has an alloy frame for better balance.​ 
I paid $165 for it used 5 years ago.​


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## pegwinn

I like the 1911 because it hits like Mike Tyson used to.  I also like the Taurus clone of the service Beretta. In both cases I was so fully trained that I can wake up, snatch it up, aim in, and become fully conscious just in time to make sure of the target. 

I still prefer a shotgun for home defense.


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## Duke505

dilloduck said:


> I heartily on shopping around. Years ago I bought a 9 mm Ruger--simple and rugged but too big to carry and conceal especially in warm weather. Looking for something smaller to carry as we speak.




Try out the Keltec PF9.  This is my summertime CCW.  Very lightweight and thin.  It kicks like a mule though.


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## Missourian

Missourian said:


> Check out this NAA .22 lr mini....it might be next door to useless but better than nothing.
> 
> Yes, thats a bic lighter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> $225​



Only took me six years,  but I finally "pulled the trigger" on an NAA Mini Revolver purchase.

Got the .22 WMR 1&5/8 inch barrel with the folding grip holster for $239.  Haven't had an opportunity to shoot it yet,  but when I do,  I'll post it in the Range Report thread.


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## Freiheit

I am a native Houstonian so I appreciate living in 100+ degree temps and 100% humidity.  I lived on Guam and the climate was better than Houston.  The most important attribute in a carry pistol, for me, is slimness.  I too love Sigs and have them, just not for carry.  Walther manufactures fine pistols too and the Walther PPS in 9mm is, I think, an excellent choice it is fairly light, slim, reliable and very high quality.  By the way I got smart and moved as soon as I could.


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## shadow355

BaronVonBigmeat said:


> Okay so I live in Texas, where you can get a concealed carry permit. I'm familiar with shotguns, but I've never owned a pistol. I'm researching several different guns (probably a glock or a sig?), and hopefully I'll get to try out a few different guns at a range before I buy. That's what I've been told to do, anyhow. Any suggestions? I'd rather not have anything smaller than 9mm.
> 
> My bigger question though is: how do you conceal, when the weather is too hot to wear a sports coat? Jeans and a t-shirt, or dockers and a golf shirt, is the only thing you can comfortably wear for 8 months out of the year in Houston.
> 
> Do I need to find a gun I can carry in my pocket? I've seen these holsters you wear inside your pants, but they seem kind of wacky, I mean what do you do if you're at a gas station during a stickup--start unbuckling your pants to get to your gun? Ha ha.
> 
> I'm not buying the whole "come on, it's not going to happen" argument--my neighbor's family has had no less than three incidents in the past few years where a concealed gun saved the day, plus a cowoker used his to scare off a couple of burglars without firing a shot.
> 
> Thoughts?


 

  Sig P229








H&K  USP Compact






Sig Sauer - Pro Model ( About $400 dollar handgun )








  Any of these handguns in 9mm or 40 caliber could do the job.

  The Sig Pro series are about $375.00 to $450.00 - new. Depending if you get one off of the internet, or a dealer.

The H&K USP is a strong built German handgun, I had one. One of the few handguns on the earth that you can repeatedly shoot +P ammo through. Even though it is a compact handgun with less than a 4" barrel - it will hit center mass on a target at 60 and 70 yards. H&Ks are expensive - about $900.00 for the gun, but they are rugged - dependable, and they sling lead very-very accurately.

The Sig Sauer P229 will more than likely fit your hand like a glove - I picked one up a long time ago and love the feel of a 229.  As soon as I sell my P226, I plan on getting one. P229s are built well, and will shoot +P ammo, but a steady diet of the higher pressure cartridges is not recommended. Swiss made, it is accurate like a Swiss watch. The US Secret Service - Federal Air Marshals - Homeland Security - Customs and Border Patrol and a few other agencies carry the P229.

My recommendations for a carry gun = Semi Auto &  capable of being accurate out to 50 yards. You can do the subcompact .380 - the 5 shot 38 special and a few others, but if you have multiple threats ( like a gang for example ) - a moving vehicle or motorcycle...you need firepower and ammo....hence a semi-auto. My primary gun now, I can hit the center of a silhouette at 70 yards.

9mm is great for long distance shooting and shoots relatively flat. Use the 115 grain or 124 grain bullet - but a 115 grain is the best...especially with its +P ballistics is near the .357 magnum. Stay away from the 147 grain bullet......it is subsonic and drops like a rock. Subsonic bullets are most generally only good for shooting firearms equipped with silencers.

40 caliber is great for when energy is needed ( engine blocks...timing chains...water jackets....radiators.....oil & water coolers ) and is excellent for anti-barrier ( Walls - barriers - car doors...ect )

The 135 grain .40 gives you  velocity, and the 180 grain .40 caliber bullet is great for energy.

They make a holster ( Galls.com ) that fits a tactical flashlight and one extra magazine. So, your compact handgun on the strong side of your body, and on the weak side you have a flashlight for dark buildings and low light situations +  one extra magazine.


Speer Ammo - Ballistics Tables



         Shadow 355


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## 9thIDdoc

>38 spec. +P


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## 9thIDdoc

Wounded Warrior 1911 .45 ACP


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## asaratis

Try out a lot of pistols before buying any.  Buy whatever you feel most comfortable with AND can produce a decent grouping when firing five quick shots or a full magazine worth.  Shot placement is far more important than big caliber.  A well placed .22 shot will do more damage than a .45 shot that misses the target.

The previous comment regarding knowing when you should shoot a human and having the balls to do it is spot on.  Shooting targets and tin cans is not the same.

I've had many pistols through my adult life (so far)...I've given away most of them...settled now on a Glock 42 (.380), a Glock 27 (.40), a S&W M&P.40 and a Taurus _The Judge _(.45 Long Colt and .410).  They all shoot well.

The Glock 42 is small enough to carry in the front pocket of my loose fitting khaki pants without a holster.  Since I'm not planning to get into a quick-draw situation, there's no round in the chamber.

I have holsters for all but the Taurus (which I also sometimes carry in the front pocket) and I use them when I can justify a jacket or when I'm going somewhere that I know people won't be afraid of my open carry.

By the way, in my state, open carry is legal without any license.

My last bit of advice...learn to use both hands.  Your accuracy will be maximized...especially with the short barrel pistols.   I once had a Henry Mare's Leg .45cal lever action pistol.  (Looks just like their rifles, but is classified as a pistol)  I could easily shoot it accurately at 30 yards with one hand because the barrel was a little over 13 inches long and it was a heavy dude.  There was hardly any uplift.  A 3" barrel will teach you to aim a bit lower than you intend to hit.  Firing a short barrel gun with one hand may cause your shots to be several feet over the bulls eye depending on the distance to the target.  However, for close quarter shooting (I define that as 6 feet or less), you can hardly miss the perp if you practice at all.  Go for the guts...maybe you'll hit the chest, neck or head.  Either way, he'll bleed or die.

One more thing...shoot twice!


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## asaratis

Damn!  I just noticed how old this thread is!  I bet the OP has already bought a pistol or two!


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## Mr. H.

I have to deal with what I have. I can't go out and buy anything fancy. 

My S&W Airweight .38 is a belly gun. Can't hit a thing even at ten feet. 

My Glock 19 is just too bulky and heavy. 

So I need to find a holster for the S&W 6904. It's a compromise but one with which I must deal.


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## asaratis

I had an Airweight .38 several years ago.  They are truly light weight, but with a short barrel, being light is not good.  Even with two hands, it's hard to keep the barrel down when the powder goes off.  I really miss the Henry Mare's Leg....but I did give it to my son.  It's in good hands.


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