# Guatemala's out of control crime



## Bullfighter

Guatemala has one of the highest murder rates in the Western Hemisphere.

An average of 18 people are killed every day because of a combination of targeted assassinations, drug violence, and robberies.

Only a fraction of the crimes are ever investigated, and even fewer are prosecuted, due in part to criminal organisations operating inside the government.

David Mercer reports from Guatemala City.

Watch video:
Guatemala's out of control crime - americas - Al Jazeera English
----------------------------------------------------
Guatemala is on the southern border of Mexico. How many of these wonderful people have tunneled their way into the US?


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## GHook93

What region of the world has the highest murder rate:



> http://www.genevadeclaration.org/fileadmin/docs/Global-Burden-of-Armed-Violence-full-report.pdf
> Intentional homicide rates per 100,000 population by region and subregion, 2004
> Southern Africa 37.3
> *Central America 29.3 *
> *South America 25.9 *
> West and Central Africa 21.6
> East Africa 20.8
> Africa 20
> *Caribbean 18.1*
> *Americas 16.2 *
> East Europe 8.1
> North Africa 7.6
> World 7.6
> *North America 6.5 *



Interesting the HATE-America-All-The-Time-Liberals always say America is the most dangerous place, but look at North America (composed of Canada, US, Mexico and Central America). Even with high murder countries like like Honduras #1 (67 m), El Salavador #3 (59), Venezuela #4 (45) Guatemala #5 (41), Belize #6 (33.4), Panama #15 (12.9), Mexico #17 (23) and Nicaragua #18 (12), North America (with USA as its biggest country) has a murder rate of 6.5 (which is under the world murder rate!

It seems like the Africa and Latin America fight for the murder rate capital of the world!

Interesting note: Its funny how socialism paradise in Latin America have the highest murder rate: Honduras is #1, El Salavador is #3, Venezuela is #4 (good job Hugo Fat Ass - when you bitch about other countries, you should start to look inward first) and Nicaragua at #18!. 

It is also interesting that Africa and Latin America (two regions of the world that contribute to the most crime in the US) are far and away the murder rate contenders of th world! Look at the top 10 (out of 20 regions) and despite Eastern Europe at 9, Latin America and Africa take all the stops! Ouch!


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## José

Ghook is angry because crime statistics do not bode well for his nationalist paroxisms:

"*EVERY MORNING WHEN I WAKE UP I KISS THE SACRED SOIL OF AMERICA!!

WE SHOULD BE ETERNALLY GRATEFUL FOR LIVING IN THE US, AKA, HEAVEN ON EARTH!!

THE WHOLE WORLD IS A VIOLENT SHITHOLE RAVAGED BY THIEVES, RAPISTS AND SERIAL KILLERS WHILE WE CAN WALK THE STREETS SAFELY THANKS TO THE GIFT OF AMERICA!!

SOMEBODY HELP ME!! I THINK I'M HAVING A HEART ATTACK!!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!*"

List of countries by intentional homicide rate per year per 100,000 inhabitants:

United States: 5.7

Singapore: 0.39


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## Tank

José;2483848 said:
			
		

> THE WHOLE WORLD IS A VIOLENT SHITHOLE RAVAGED BY THIEVES, RAPISTS AND SERIAL


Not the whole world, just the areas of the brown and black people.


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## Epsilon Delta

The whole region is falling apart. Since the wars of the 1980s ended in Central America, the armies in the fields have been replaced by the youth gangs in the streets. Even in Costa Rica its a danger to walk alone at night; I can't even imagine what its like in the rest of the place. 

There's really two or three major factors at work here. After the wars ended, most Central American countries had to undergo a triple transition: war to peace; from closed war economies to open globalized economies; and from authoritarianism to democracy. There have been problems that reinforce each other in each transition. 

The destruction of the wars and the huge debt that befell each government occupied much of the resources in the early 90s, resource that were scarce to begin with (the 80s were a lost decade for economic development; there was virtually no growth in Latin America between the 70s and the 90s). 

The re-insertion into the emerging global economy bore no fruits for the majority of the region, even as there was some economic growth during the past 20 decades, it has barely been enough to achieve the levels of the 70s, at the same time as each country was experiencing a boom in population. The gains made since 1990 have been very unevenly distributed; inequality is far and away the most important and most destructive structural problem that the region faces. Incomes of the top 10% have skyrocketed while the rest have stagnated in most places. Wealth inequality is part of the legacy of Spanish imperialism, which nearly all successive governments in the region have been unable or unwilling to solve. This inequality reinforces weak social mobility, which in turn fuels crime and discontent among the large, destitute majorities. 

The shift from authoritarianism to democracy has been equally hampered by inequality and the ineffective insertion into the global economy. The fact is that though there are a great many formal democratic institutions and voting, most people have come to see the transition as superficial. Electoral systems are still controlled firmly by the powerful, who have shifted their instruments of domination from the blatantly military to the mirage of democracy. Many of those who were influential during the dictatorships continue to exercise their power with impunity in many other various ways; the phenomenon of generals-cum-businessmen who prop up many a political campaign. The security systems, which in the 80s were geared exclusively toward oppressing the population, have barely changed and the people continue to view them with suspicion as leaders have failed to address the impunity and repressiveness of the police and military. 

Those are just some of the reasons for the current situation in Central America. "Mano Dura" tactics (heavy hand) have failed at addressing the problem; crime and instability will continue to be the norm as long as inequality continues to dominate the social landscape. Another massive phenomenon is that of the "maras" or youth gangs, many deportees who cut their gang teeth in the streets of Los Angeles and have since returned to fuel and strengthen transnational crime both in the United States and their respective states. It's a very complex issue that will take many years and effective planning to solve, both here and abroad. To be honest, I'm pessimistic on the prospects.



... Oh why do I bother; Yeah! Brown people are inferior! Put them in labor camps! Exterminate them!


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## José

Tank said:


> José;2483848 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE WHOLE WORLD IS A VIOLENT SHITHOLE RAVAGED BY THIEVES, RAPISTS AND SERIAL
> 
> 
> 
> Not the whole world, just the areas of the brown and black people.
Click to expand...


Are you sure or just talking out of your shithole as usual?

*List of countries by intentional homicide rate:*

United States: 5.7

Iran: 2.93

Bolivia: 2.82

India: 2.82

Bangladesh: 2.64

Bermuda: 1.56

Senegal: 1.1

Bahrain: 0.95

Algeria: 0.64


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## Tank

José;2484025 said:
			
		

> United States: 5.7


America has alot of areas with brown and black people.


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## José

Tank said:


> José;2484025 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United States: 5.7
> 
> 
> 
> America has alot of areas with brown and black people.
Click to expand...


Unfortunately for your racist views, Tank... Russia, Belarus, Georgia, Estonia and Ukraine have virtually no "brown and black people".

*List of countries by intentional homicide rate:*

Russia: 14.9

Belarus: 7.53

Georgia: 7.29

Estonia: 7.09

Ukraine: 7.04


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## Tank




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## José

So Ghook and Tank lie on the floor of the US Message Board, reduced to a bloody mess by José's paroxistic violence.

Five broken teeth, blood slowly dripping from their nose and mouth they slowly regain conscience and start crying desperately as they realise the severe beatdown they took.

Watching from a distance, Delta thinks to himself:

"*Just like so many others before them, Ghook and Tank met the sad but inevitable fate of all those who are foolish enough to challenge José...*"


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## José

*Tank said:
Not the whole world, just the areas of the brown and black people.*

Tank's attempt to establish a causal relationship between race and violence was decisively crushed by statistical data:

*List of countries by intentional homicide rate:*

*WHITE COUNTRIES*

Russia: 14.9

Belarus: 7.53

Georgia: 7.29

Estonia: 7.09

Ukraine: 7.04 

United States: 5.7

*BLACK AND "BROWN" COUNTRIES*

Iran: 2.93

Bolivia: 2.82

India: 2.82

Bangladesh: 2.64

Bermuda: 1.56

Senegal: 1.1

Bahrain: 0.95

Algeria: 0.64


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## José

A smackdown of epic proportions... no other way to put it...


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## GHook93

You are blaming it on the Wars of 1980s, yet Latin America has never been a shining light of the world, since the Mayans disappeared. In fact well before the 1980s they were still utter violent messes! 



Epsilon Delta said:


> The whole region is falling apart. Since the wars of the 1980s ended in Central America, the armies in the fields have been replaced by the youth gangs in the streets. Even in Costa Rica its a danger to walk alone at night; I can't even imagine what its like in the rest of the place.
> 
> There's really two or three major factors at work here. After the wars ended, most Central American countries had to undergo a triple transition: war to peace; from closed war economies to open globalized economies; and from authoritarianism to democracy. There have been problems that reinforce each other in each transition.
> 
> The destruction of the wars and the huge debt that befell each government occupied much of the resources in the early 90s, resource that were scarce to begin with (the 80s were a lost decade for economic development; there was virtually no growth in Latin America between the 70s and the 90s).
> 
> The re-insertion into the emerging global economy bore no fruits for the majority of the region, even as there was some economic growth during the past 20 decades, it has barely been enough to achieve the levels of the 70s, at the same time as each country was experiencing a boom in population. The gains made since 1990 have been very unevenly distributed; inequality is far and away the most important and most destructive structural problem that the region faces. Incomes of the top 10% have skyrocketed while the rest have stagnated in most places. Wealth inequality is part of the legacy of Spanish imperialism, which nearly all successive governments in the region have been unable or unwilling to solve. This inequality reinforces weak social mobility, which in turn fuels crime and discontent among the large, destitute majorities.
> 
> The shift from authoritarianism to democracy has been equally hampered by inequality and the ineffective insertion into the global economy. The fact is that though there are a great many formal democratic institutions and voting, most people have come to see the transition as superficial. Electoral systems are still controlled firmly by the powerful, who have shifted their instruments of domination from the blatantly military to the mirage of democracy. Many of those who were influential during the dictatorships continue to exercise their power with impunity in many other various ways; the phenomenon of generals-cum-businessmen who prop up many a political campaign. The security systems, which in the 80s were geared exclusively toward oppressing the population, have barely changed and the people continue to view them with suspicion as leaders have failed to address the impunity and repressiveness of the police and military.
> 
> Those are just some of the reasons for the current situation in Central America. "Mano Dura" tactics (heavy hand) have failed at addressing the problem; crime and instability will continue to be the norm as long as inequality continues to dominate the social landscape. Another massive phenomenon is that of the "maras" or youth gangs, many deportees who cut their gang teeth in the streets of Los Angeles and have since returned to fuel and strengthen transnational crime both in the United States and their respective states. It's a very complex issue that will take many years and effective planning to solve, both here and abroad. To be honest, I'm pessimistic on the prospects.
> 
> 
> 
> ... Oh why do I bother; Yeah! Brown people are inferior! Put them in labor camps! Exterminate them!


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## José

Hook,

The whole Board is waiting for you to comment on how "shitty" America really is. After all you're almost 15 times more likely to be gunned down in the US than in Singapore.

*List of countries by intentional homicide rate per year per 100,000 inhabitants:*

United States: 5.7

Singapore: 0.39


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## Tank

José;2484390 said:
			
		

> A smackdown of epic proportions... no other way to put it...


Black and brown take the crown:


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## José

Tank believes there is a causal link between race and violence but is totally unable to explain these anomalies/holes in his theory:

*List of countries by intentional homicide rate:*

Russia: 14.9

Senegal: 1.1
______________________

Estonia: 7.09

Bolivia: 2.82
______________________

United States: 5.7

Algeria: 0.64 
______________________

Anyone willing to volunteer for the effort??

William Joyce maybe??


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## Epsilon Delta

GHook93 said:


> You are blaming it on the Wars of 1980s, yet Latin America has never been a shining light of the world, since the Mayans disappeared. In fact well before the 1980s they were still utter violent messes!


[/QUOTE]

Not even a paragraph? 

*yawn*

Why bother?


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## Douger

US influence equals high murder rate.


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## Bullfighter

Tank said:


> José;2483848 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE WHOLE WORLD IS A VIOLENT SHITHOLE RAVAGED BY THIEVES, RAPISTS AND SERIAL
> 
> 
> 
> Not the whole world, just the areas of the brown and black people.
Click to expand...


Soon every American neighborhood will have people that look as attractive as that. How about a Mexican sitcom about Latinos taking over the country?


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## Bullfighter

José;2484374 said:
			
		

> *Tank said:
> Not the whole world, just the areas of the brown and black people.*
> 
> Tank's attempt to establish a causal relationship between race and violence was decisively crushed by statistical data:
> 
> *List of countries by intentional homicide rate:*
> 
> *WHITE COUNTRIES*
> 
> Russia: 14.9
> 
> Belarus: 7.53
> 
> Georgia: 7.29
> 
> Estonia: 7.09
> 
> Ukraine: 7.04
> 
> United States: 5.7
> 
> *BLACK AND "BROWN" COUNTRIES*
> 
> Iran: 2.93
> 
> Bolivia: 2.82
> 
> India: 2.82
> 
> Bangladesh: 2.64
> 
> Bermuda: 1.56
> 
> Senegal: 1.1
> 
> Bahrain: 0.95
> 
> Algeria: 0.64



Where's all the LATINO countries?


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## Bullfighter

José;2485012 said:
			
		

> Tank believes there is a causal link between race and violence but is totally unable to explain these anomalies/holes in his theory:
> 
> *List of countries by intentional homicide rate:*
> 
> Russia: 14.9
> 
> Senegal: 1.1
> ______________________
> 
> Estonia: 7.09
> 
> Bolivia: 2.82
> ______________________
> 
> United States: 5.7
> 
> Algeria: 0.64
> ______________________
> 
> Anyone willing to volunteer for the effort??
> 
> William Joyce maybe??



No South Pole? North Pole? The MOON? HA! Talk about stats corrupted by LA RAZA!


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## Epsilon Delta

Bullfighter said:


> No South Pole? North Pole? The MOON? HA! Talk about stats corrupted by LA RAZA!



Jesus, you have GOT to be a troll. Nobody can be this stupid.

"Those stats are corrupted! They do not serve as examples of my distorted worldview! Only stats that are in line with what I think can count!"


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## Bullfighter

Epsilon Delta said:


> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> No South Pole? North Pole? The MOON? HA! Talk about stats corrupted by LA RAZA!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus, you have GOT to be a troll. Nobody can be this stupid.
> 
> "Those stats are corrupted! They do not serve as examples of my distorted worldview! Only stats that are in line with what I think can count!"
Click to expand...


The Latin American's worldview is a mirror.


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## Epsilon Delta

Bullfighter said:


> Epsilon Delta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> No South Pole? North Pole? The MOON? HA! Talk about stats corrupted by LA RAZA!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus, you have GOT to be a troll. Nobody can be this stupid.
> 
> "Those stats are corrupted! They do not serve as examples of my distorted worldview! Only stats that are in line with what I think can count!"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Latin American's worldview is a mirror.
Click to expand...


[Insert response to inane troll comment here]


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## Bullfighter

Epsilon Delta said:


> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Epsilon Delta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus, you have GOT to be a troll. Nobody can be this stupid.
> 
> "Those stats are corrupted! They do not serve as examples of my distorted worldview! Only stats that are in line with what I think can count!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Latin American's worldview is a mirror.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> [Insert response to inane troll comment here]
Click to expand...


At a loss for words?


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## Epsilon Delta

Bullfighter said:


> Epsilon Delta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Latin American's worldview is a mirror.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Insert response to inane troll comment here]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> At a loss for words?
Click to expand...


Absolutely.


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## editec

Hard times tend to make people hard people.

_Duh!_


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## Bullfighter

editec said:


> Hard times tend to make people hard people.
> 
> _Duh!_



American laws caused street gangs to flouish.


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## GHook93

Epsilon Delta said:


> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> No South Pole? North Pole? The MOON? HA! Talk about stats corrupted by LA RAZA!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus, you have GOT to be a troll. Nobody can be this stupid.
> 
> "Those stats are corrupted! They do not serve as examples of my distorted worldview! Only stats that are in line with what I think can count!"
Click to expand...


LOL, you call him a troll, but say those stats are corrupted! LOL, pot calling the kettle black. I guarantee the murder rate in Latin America and Africa are probably higher than reported. The corrupt police force probably lists many murders as accidents. Many people who disappear are not counted in the murder rate. Etc.!


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## Epsilon Delta

GHook93 said:


> Epsilon Delta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> No South Pole? North Pole? The MOON? HA! Talk about stats corrupted by LA RAZA!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus, you have GOT to be a troll. Nobody can be this stupid.
> 
> "Those stats are corrupted! They do not serve as examples of my distorted worldview! Only stats that are in line with what I think can count!"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL, you call him a troll, but say those stats are corrupted! LOL, pot calling the kettle black. I guarantee the murder rate in Latin America and Africa are probably higher than reported. The corrupt police force probably lists many murders as accidents. Many people who disappear are not counted in the murder rate. Etc.!
Click to expand...


Get a clue, dumbfuck. I was not saying the stats were corrupted. That's what HE was saying.

And jeez, can't you think of anything better to say? This has got to be the 5th or 6th time that you use "pot calling the kettle black" slogan, at a completely inappropriate time. 

Please go back and reread what I said. There's a reason why it's in quotes.


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## Bullfighter

Epsilon Delta said:


> [And jeez, can't you think of anything better to say? This has got to be the 5th or 6th time that you use "pot calling the kettle black" slogan, at a completely inappropriate time.
> 
> .



How about the Costa Rican calling the Mexican brown!


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## José

> Originally posted by *Bullfighter*
> How about the Costa Rican calling the Mexican brown!



Demographics of Costa Rica

Ethnic groups

** White 84%*
    * Mestizo 10%
    * Black/Afro-Caribbean 3%
    * Amerindian 1%
    * Chinese 1%
    * Other 1%


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## José

Delta

Hook rejects your socio-political explanation for Latin America's underdevelopment based on the type of colonialism the region was subjeted to and the military governments that (mis)ruled the region in the 20th century because deep in his heart he believes Hispanics and Latinos (to include Brazil) are racially or culturally inferior.

If you read between the lines you'll clearly see he believes in some kind of racial or cultural inferiority but he is too ashamed to admit it in front of the whole Board.

And this is, IMO, really a shame, much worse than any opinion he might hold on Latin America. 

There's nothing sadder than someone who's ashamed of his own opinions.


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## José

And Hook refuses to comment on these statistical data:

*List of countries by intentional homicide rate per year per 100,000 inhabitants:

United States: 5.7

Singapore: 0.39*

because, unfortunately, Hook is a super patriotic american clown, that is, someone who is compromised with a caricatural, utopian, idealistic representation of America as a safe haven from all the inherent evil of the "outside world".

Conceding the fact that America is a far more dangerous place to live than Singapore would destroy his entire worldview.


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## Douger

Bullfighter said:


> Epsilon Delta said:
> 
> 
> 
> [And jeez, can't you think of anything better to say? This has got to be the 5th or 6th time that you use "pot calling the kettle black" slogan, at a completely inappropriate time.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about the Costa Rican calling the Mexican brown!
Click to expand...

You ignorant flag waving fuckbump.
You ever been to Costa Rica ? ......or anywhere else ?


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## Bullfighter

Douger said:


> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Epsilon Delta said:
> 
> 
> 
> [And jeez, can't you think of anything better to say? This has got to be the 5th or 6th time that you use "pot calling the kettle black" slogan, at a completely inappropriate time.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about the Costa Rican calling the Mexican brown!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You ignorant flag waving fuckbump.
> You ever been to Costa Rica ? ......or anywhere else ?
Click to expand...


I have learned of Costa Rica from this documentary:

The Nightmare Begins - Clips - South Park Studios


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## GHook93

José;2487268 said:
			
		

> Hook rejects your socio-political explanation for Latin America's underdevelopment based on the type of colonialism the region was subjeted to and the military governments that (mis)ruled the region in the 20th century because deep in his heart he believes Hispanics and Latinos (to include Brazil) are racially or culturally inferior.


PLEASE!!! Rather I don't buy the colonialize is to blame for the current murder and rape in Africa and Latin America. Take the Arab Countries. Most were ruled by the brutal and repressive Ottoman Empire, some the French, Dutch and British. Yet, while they definitely have their problems, their murder per 100,000 are pretty low. They don't blame everything on Whitey and colonializm. The Latin American countries have been independent for a while, yet they never turn the corner to prosperity! 

You blast the fact that America was also ruled by a colonial British empire. They prescribed high taxation without representation. A brutal war was fought. At the nations birth, America was debt ridden, poor and weak. It was the people the got the country on the right track. America didn't flounder after the Civil War, which was as brutal, country dividing and destructive as any war!



			
				José;2487268 said:
			
		

> If you read between the lines you'll clearly see he believes in some kind of racial or cultural inferiority but he is too ashamed to admit it in front of the whole Board.
> 
> And this is, IMO, really a shame, much worse than any opinion he might hold on Latin America.
> 
> There's nothing sadder than someone who's ashamed of his own opinions.


Not in the least!


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## José

> Originally posted by *GHook93*
> PLEASE!!! Rather I don't buy the colonialize is to blame for the current murder and rape in Africa and Latin America. Take the Arab Countries. Most were ruled by the brutal and repressive Ottoman Empire, some the French, Dutch and British. Yet, while they definitely have their problems, their murder per 100,000 are pretty low. They don't blame everything on Whitey and colonializm. The Latin American countries have been independent for a while, yet they never turn the corner to prosperity!
> 
> You blast the fact that America was also ruled by a colonial British empire. They prescribed high taxation without representation. A brutal war was fought. At the nations birth, America was debt ridden, poor and weak. It was the people the got the country on the right track. America didn't flounder after the Civil War, which was as brutal, country dividing and destructive as any war!



That's exactly what I said, Hook... You reject the socio-political explanation offered by Delta because you probably believe in some kind of racial or socio-cultural inferiority of the latin american peoples.

But I do not possess mind-reading powers... If I'm wrong... tell us what you think is the underlying cause of Latin America's underdevelopment?

I already crushed Tank's racial explanation of violent behavior in "black/brown" countries with undeniable statistical data now let's hear Ghook's explanation of poverty South of the Rio Grande.


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## B. Kidd

The hypocrisy of Mexico.

Mexico has had a sealed border with Guatamala for years, but pitches a bitch if we try to seal our borders with Mexico. Practice what you preach in the south, and in El Norte.

TOTAL Hypocrisy!


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## Bullfighter

B. Kidd said:


> The hypocrisy of Mexico.
> 
> Mexico has had a sealed border with Guatamala for years, but pitches a bitch if we try to seal our borders with Mexico. Practice what you preach in the south, and in El Norte.
> 
> TOTAL Hypocrisy!



Never criticize a Wise Latina!


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## editec

Crime is like a social hurricane seeking to redress the imbalance of social power  within a society

Crime (partularly organized crime)  becomes the way that the powerless fight those with the power of the law, or to put it another way,_ the way that those without social sanctions and benefits get from those with those things._

Organized crimes blossoms anyplace where government has become  just another kind of organized crime.


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