# You Think Gas Prices are High Now???? Wait !!!!!



## slukasiewski

From Drudge - 

"Iran's president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Sunday in televised remarks he will be the caretaker head of the oil ministry after dismissing the incumbent ahead of a merger with the energy ministry."


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## CrusaderFrank

Omaba and his Energy Secretary high-fived each other when they heard that

"Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe," -- Stevie "Ain't High Gas Prices Wonderful" Chu, Obama's Energy Secretary


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## Mr. H.

Iran needs the revenues. They can't afford to cut back production. They're certainly not a "swing producer" and OPEC doesn't wield the influence of years past.


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## Dabs

*Someone in my area told me the other day that gas prices will be going down~
So I googled it....sure as shit I did, and I read where some places are saying that by mid-June, gas prices could go down by 50 cents.
So....somewhere, somebody is fucking lying.
Right now where I live, I pay $3.69 per gallon~*


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## waltky

Granny says purt soon it gonna get to like it was when she was a lil' girl an' only rich people could afford to drive cars...

*Gas prices widen divide between rich, not-rich*
_Luxury retailers say spending is brisk, while Target, Walmart, others see customers cutting back_


> High gas prices are driving a wider wedge between the wealthy and everybody else.  The rich are back to pre-recession splurging: Saks Fifth Avenue and Nordstrom customers are treating themselves to luxury items like $5,000 Hermes handbags and $700 Jimmy Choo shoes, and purchasing at full price.  At Target and Walmart, shoppers are concentrating on groceries and skipping little luxuries. BJ's Wholesale Corp. said Wednesday that customers are buying more hamburger and chicken and less steak and buying smaller packs to save money.
> 
> "The average shopper isn't in the game, except for necessities," said Faith Hope Consolo, chairman of retail leasing and marketing at Prudential Douglas Elliman. At the same time, among the rich, "Luxury products are selling like bread."  J.C. Penney, Wal-Mart and home-improvement retailer Lowe's Cos. all said they're noticing their customers are consolidating shopping trips to save money on gas as the average price hovers at $4 a gallon.  More than a half-dozen corporate earnings reports this week show that for the affluent, rising prices are merely a nuisance. For others, they can mean scrimping to put food on the table.
> 
> The wealthy were the first to start spending again after the recession. Middle-class spending started picking up late last year.  But the retail earnings results show that rising prices for gas and food, particularly meat, dairy and produce, have started to erode spending power.  It could get worse later this year, when clothing prices are expected to rise 10 percent to 15 percent. Meat prices are expected to rise 6 percent to 7 percent this year and dairy products as much as 5.5 percent, according to USDA estimates.
> 
> The bottom fifth of earners, with a median household income is $9,846, spend 35.6 percent of their income on food and 9.4 percent of their income on gas, according to a report by Citi Investment Research.  The top fifth, whose median household income is $157,631, spends only 6.8 percent on food and 1.9 percent on gas. So they feel it less.
> 
> More Gas prices widen divide between rich, not-rich - Business - Eye on the Economy - msnbc.com


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## waltky

Granny says if gas prices don't come down, she gonna have to borrow possum's skateboard to get around...

*Prices at Gas Pump Painful for 4 in 10 Americans*
_Friday, May 20, 2011  WASHINGTON (AP)  With gasoline prices hovering at $4 a gallon nationally, many Americans are making tough choices: scaling back summer vacations, driving less or ditching the car altogether. Some seniors are choosing a tank of gas over their prescriptions._


> An Associated Press-GfK poll shows the share of Americans who say increases in the price of gasoline will cause serious financial hardship for them or their family in the next six months now tops 4 in 10.  Overall in the poll, 71 percent said rising prices will cause some hardship for them and their family, including 41 percent who called it a "serious" hardship. Just 29 percent said rising prices are not causing a negative impact on their finances.  By income, 63 percent of those with annual household incomes over $50,000 now say rising prices are causing financial hardship, up from 55 percent in March.
> 
> For older Americans, it's worse.  The share of seniors expressing financial hardship over gas prices hit 76 percent; it was 68 percent in March.  Nettie Cash, 65, of Dallas, Ga., is cutting back on her medicine because of the cost of fueling up her Buick. Cash is still taking her heart pills but is forgoing her inhaler and ulcer medicine for now.  "It's not easy," she said. "You have to do what you have to do."
> 
> The public's coping strategies are largely unchanged from March, with 72 percent having cut back on other expenses, 66 percent saying they've reduced the amount of driving they do and 48 percent changing vacation plans.  Since January, gas prices have shot up about 90 cents, with the national average for a gallon of regular this week at $3.96.
> 
> Financial analyst Nicole Polite in Baltimore sold her Nissan Altima recently and is taking public transportation, opting for the bus, rails and walking to get to work. Gas prices were just too high, she says, so she and her boyfriend downsized to a one-car household. She says they kept their Lexus sedan, which requires pricey premium gas.  "It's definitely a financial strain because now you have to reassess everything," said Polite, 32. "We don't go out as much. That $20 that we could have used to go to a movie -- now that money has been absorbed by the gas tank."
> 
> MORE



See also:

*Life Inc.: Gas prices force lifestyle changes*
_As gas prices rise, more than half of Americans say they have made changes to their lifestyle, according to a new Gallup poll.  The most common adjustment: driving less._


> Nearly 67 percent of Americans say the cost of fuel has caused financial hardships in their households (shown in the graph above). Low-income Americans are most likely to say rising prices are causing financial hardships.
> 
> The poll, conducted May 12-15, found that among the 53 percent of Americans who report having made major lifestyle changes, 16 percent are cutting back on vacation travel, 15 percent are being more careful in planning errands and local trips, and 15 percent have either purchased a more fuel-efficient vehicle or are considering it. Smaller segments report doing less "leisure driving," more carpooling, using public transportation, walking more, biking more and driving more slowly.
> 
> Twelve percent of those making major changes say they are cutting back on groceries, clothes and other expenses to absorb the higher fuel costs.
> 
> MORE


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## Dabs

*Today the cost per gallon in my area is $3.56.*


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## waltky

Granny says it dem speculators an' Arab's an' Big Oil companies fault...

*Gas tanks are draining family budgets*
_5/27/2011 - 'You have to cut back when you have a $480 gas bill a month'_


> There's less money this summer for hotel rooms, surfboards and bathing suits. It's all going into the gas tank.  High prices at the pump are putting a squeeze on the family budget as the traditional summer driving season begins. For every $10 the typical household earns before taxes, almost a full dollar now goes toward gas, a 40 percent bigger bite than normal.  Households spent an average of $369 on gas last month. In April 2009, they spent just $201. Families now spend more filling up than they spend on cars, clothes or recreation. Last year, they spent less on gasoline than each of those things.
> 
> Jeffrey Wayman of Cape Charles, Va., spent Friday riding his motorcycle to North Carolina's Outer Banks, a day trip with his wife. They decided to eat snacks in a gas station parking lot rather than buy lunch because rising fuel prices have eaten so much into their budget over the past year that they can't ride as frequently as they would like.  "We used to do it a lot more, but not as much now," he said. "You have to cut back when you have a $480 gas bill a month."
> 
> Alex Martinez, a senior at Arcadia High School outside Los Angeles, said his family's trips to San Francisco, which they usually take once or more a year, are on hold. As he stopped at a gas station to put $5 of fuel in his car  not much more than a gallon  he said the high prices are crimping social life for him and his friends.  "We're always worrying, 'How are we going to get home. We've got less than half a gallon left,'" Martinez said. "We definitely can't go out as much, and we can't go as far."
> 
> As Memorial Day weekend opens, the nationwide average for a gallon of unleaded is $3.81. Though prices have drifted lower in recent days, analysts expect average price for 2011 to come in higher than the previous record, $3.25 in 2008. A year ago, gas cost $2.76.  The squeeze is happening at a time when most people aren't getting raises, even as the economy recovers.  "These increases are not something consumers can shrug off," says James Hamilton, an economics professor at the University of California, San Diego, who studies gas prices. "It's a key part of the family budget."
> 
> More Gas tanks are draining family budgets - Business - Oil & energy - msnbc.com


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## waltky

Uncle Ferd gettin' ready to put dat 4bbl. carburetor back on his pick-up truck...

*Gas prices headed downward, survey finds*
_June 12, 2011 -- Gas prices are dropping and likely to continue to fall, according to a survey released Sunday._


> The average per-gallon gas price in the United States has dropped nearly 17 cents in the past three weeks, and likely will continue to drop further, according to a survey published Sunday.  The Lundberg Survey found the average price of a gallon of self-serve regular gasoline as of Friday was $3.74.
> 
> Prices so far this year peaked on May 6, when the price hit $4 per gallon nationwide -- just 11 cents shy of the all-time record set in July 2008. On May 20, the last survey conducted, the price was $3.90. That means there has been a drop of nearly 26 cents per gallon over the past five weeks.
> 
> "There's a very good chance that pump prices will continue down, because there is an oversupply of gasoline at a time when our demand is weakening from unemployment conditions," as well as reports of a possible output hike from Saudi Arabia, said publisher Trilby Lundberg.
> 
> The crude oil price is below $100 per barrel, she said. The closing price on June 10 was $99.29.  But Lundberg said she believes that even without increased output from Saudi Arabia, "we will still see lower prices at the pump, because supply is high and demand is weak. ... There's a very good chance it will continue falling."
> 
> MORE


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## waltky

Yippee! Obama gonna lower gas prices, Granny gonna vote fer him again `cause he's bringin' change, Uncle Ferd gonna put the turbocharger back on his pick'em-up truck...

*U.S. to release oil from strategic reserve*
_June 23, 2011: The U.S. Department of Energy said Thursday it will release 30 million barrels of oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve to alleviate Libyan supply disruptions -- driving already sinking prices lower._


> The release, which will be done over 30 days, represents half of a 60 million barrel supply hike announced by the International Energy Agency, which includes the United States as one of its 28 member nations.  The world consumes 87.5 million barrels of oil a day. Of that total, the United States consumes about 19 million barrels per day, according to Tom Kloza, chief oil analyst at the Oil Price Information Service.  The United States produces about 9.8 million barrels so it winds up importing about half of what it produces.  The Energy Department said the reserve is at a "historically high level" of 727 million barrels.
> 
> "We are taking this action in response to the ongoing loss of crude oil due to supply disruptions in Libya and other countries and their impact on the global economic recovery," said Energy Secretary Steven Chu. "As we move forward, we will continue to monitor the situation and stand ready to take additional steps if necessary."  Libya is still locked in civil war, as rebels, aided by NATO airstrikes, try to unseat Moammar Gadhafi.  Oil prices, which were already sliding Thursday, fell even further after the announcement.  "Oil prices are getting assaulted on two fronts today," said Kloza.
> 
> In fact, oil and gas prices have been falling for the past several months. The price of a gallon of gas nearly broke $4 in May. Gas prices were selling at $3.61 a gallon Wednesday, according to motorist group AAA.  Most experts attribute the price declines to expectations of weaker demand as the economic recovery continues to slow.  On Wednesday, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke gave a grim assessment.  "Bernanke's statement about the 'slowing pace of recovery' was the key to this down move," said Dan Dicker, a former oil trader and author of "Oil's Endless Bid: Taming the Unreliable Price of Oil to Secure Our Economy."
> 
> Oil prices plunged $4.29, or more than 4.5%, to $91.12 per barrel after the news about the supply increase. At one point, they plummeted more than 5% to less than $90 per barrel for the first time since Feb. 22.  "There is plenty of supply," Kilduff Group partner Mike Fitzpatrick told CNNMoney. "They want to push prices down to help the U.S. economy. Saudi Arabia called for this at the last OPEC meeting."  The price of Brent crude -- the European benchmark -- also declined by more than 5%, with prices sliding $6.54 per barrel to $107.67.
> 
> Source



See also:

*Oil market caught flat-footed*
_June 23rd, 2011 : Oil prices reel after release surprise_


> A surprise attack from an unlikely source sent oil prices reeling Thursday.  The International Energy Agency, the Paris based research arm of 28 industrialised countries, held an emergency press conference to announce that its members would release 60 million barrels onto the market &#8211; allocating two million barrels a day for a month.  Half of the total will be coming from the U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve.   It is only the third time the IEA tapped reserves; the first was in 1991 during the Gulf War, then again in 2005 when Hurricane Katrina wiped out some production in the Gulf of Mexico.
> 
> This move triggered memories of G-7 currency interventions in the mid-1980s, the fabled Plaza and Louvre accords, when collective action by central banks was taken to either raise or lower the U.S. dollar.  Some market purists were crying foul since governments decided to play an active role to sway prices.  But the energy market, with members of the OPEC cartel controlling about 40 percent of production, certainly is not what one would call a free market.
> 
> The IEA&#8217;s emergency move can be linked back to the OPEC meeting in Vienna earlier this month.  The 12 members left without agreeing to raise their production quota of 24.84 million barrels a day.  In sum, the price hawks &#8211; led by Iran and Venezuela &#8211; did not agree with OPEC&#8217;s swing producer Saudi Arabia, along with the UAE and Kuwait, on the need to raise production.  On the eve of that OPEC gathering, the IEA said that oil above $100 a barrel would undermine growth in the second half of this year.  Last week, at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum, I asked the IEA&#8217;s Executive Director Nobuo Tanaka whether that strategy of leaning on OPEC backfired.  He said the organization was willing to do its part if others could not raise production; now we know what he was referring to.
> 
> While this joint strike attack brought prices down about four dollars a barrel, it will be up to those who hold the spare capacity to continue a downward trend in prices.  The IEA says OPEC members have just over four million barrels of extra production they could bring to market &#8211; three-fourths of that in Saudi Arabia with the balance shared by the UAE and Kuwait.   Saudi Arabia, through a leak to the Middle East newspaper Al Hayat last week, said it would add another million barrels of production in July &#8211; ignoring OPEC&#8217;s call to leave production where it is.  This is a clever and no doubt coordinated one-two punch from the IEA and U.S. ally Saudi Arabia &#8211; but it may not be a knock out punch against those wanting to keep oil above the century mark.
> 
> Source


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## Nunyadb

It's really not going to make that much of a difference in gasoline prices.
It does sound good to the plebes, but it's mostly just for show.


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## waltky

Higher gas could put damper on economy...

*Gas prices turn up, could put damper on economy*
_21 July`11 : So much for relief at the pump  and some much-needed fuel for the sputtering economy._


> After falling to $3.54 a gallon from May's $3.98 peak, prices have unexpectedly surged the past two weeks to a national average of almost $3.70  a dollar higher than levels a year ago.  Industry analysts say prices could climb higher short-term, curbing skittish consumer spending, the main driver behind economic growth.  "This is just dismal news for the consumer. There's a lot of fatigue already," says IHS Global Insight economist Chris Christopher, who notes consumers are fretting over jobs, a weak housing market, Europe's looming debt crisis and Washington's political impasse on the debt ceiling.
> 
> Signs of economic strength helped boost benchmark West Texas crude oil above $100 a barrel Thursday before closing at $99.13 on the New York Mercantile Exchange, the highest settlement since mid-June. "Prices shouldn't be this high. But rumors and speculation just spook the market," says Patrick DeHaan, senior analyst with price tracker Gasbuddy.com.  Most analysts expected prices would be curbed by slower seasonal demand, a broader commodities sell-off and last month's news that the United States and the International Energy Association would sell oil from strategic reserves.
> 
> "The market just kind of shrugged that news off," says Naveen Agarwal, CEO of Pricelock, a hedging adviser who forecasts $4.05 gas by year's end, close to 2008's all-time high of $4.11.  Near-term, prices are likely to remain below $4  a psychological barrier that spooks consumers, Christopher says.  "Unless it's event-driven, we're not on the threshold of another major run-up," says Oil Price Information Service analyst Tom Kloza. "I still think 30 days from now, we'll probably be anywhere from $3.50 to $3.75 a gallon."
> 
> Analysts expect prices to begin falling in mid-September, as long as the hurricane season and heightened unrest in Libya or the oil rich Middle East don't disrupt supply.  Still, rising demand will push prices up heading into 2012. "Next year, you could see $5 gas," says Francisco Blanch, head of commodity strategy at Bank of America Merrill Lynch. "The only way the consumer can win is by reducing consumption."
> 
> Source


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## waltky

BP gettin' fat off high prices...

*BP reports quarterly profit of $5.3bn*
_26 July 2011 - BP made profits of $5.3bn (£3.2bn) in the three months to 30 June as higher oil prices offset lower production._


> The results were worse than expected, sending BP's share price down during morning trading.  The replacement cost profit compares with a loss of $17.0bn in the same quarter of 2010, when the company took a big charge relating to the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico.  In the first quarter of 2011, BP made a profit of $5.5bn.  BP has paid $6.8bn in damages to firms, individuals and government departments since the oil spill.
> 
> Falling production
> 
> BP's oil production was 11% down on the same period of 2010 due to the suspension of drilling in the Gulf of Mexico, maintenance work on some wells and the sell off of some operations.  The effects of the lower production were partially offset by the higher oil price, which was inflated by political unrest in oil-producing countries such as Libya.
> 
> BP has sold $25bn worth of assets in the US, Argentina, Egypt, Venezuela, Vietnam and Colombia - partly to pay for the clean-up operation in the Gulf.  The oil firm's chief executive, Bob Dudley has been criticised by some investors for failing to increase production.  In May BP abandoned a proposed deal with Russian's Rosneft to exploit oil reserves in the Arctic.  "Other companies have clearly re-defined their strategies over the last 12 to 24 months," said Dougie Youngson an oil analyst at Arbuthnot.
> 
> "Exxonmobil continues to build it's shale gas business in the US and Shell is focussed on mega gas projects. What is BP doing?"  Investors have also suggested that the share price has not recovered sufficiently from the Gulf spill.  "BP is a company that is changing rapidly. We are committed to seeing the true value of the business more strongly reflected in the share price," Mr Dudley told investors.
> 
> *Continuing clean-up*


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## RGR

waltky said:


> BP gettin' fat off high prices...



Stop buying their products. Better yet, get your neighbors and friends to do the same. Really put the hurt on'im!


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## SofiaY

I guess so


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## waltky

Silver lining to recession...

*The upside of economic worries: Lower gas prices*
_Sep 25,`11 - Soaring gasoline prices are in the rearview mirror._


> For the first time in months, retail gasoline prices have fallen below $3 a gallon in places, including parts of Michigan, Missouri and Texas. And the relief is likely to spread thanks to a sharp decline in crude-oil prices.  The national average for regular unleaded gasoline is $3.51 per gallon, down from a high of $3.98 in early May. Last week's plunge in oil prices could push the average to $3.25 per gallon by November, analysts say.
> 
> Economist Philip Verleger equates it to "a stimulus program for consumers," leaving them more money for clothes, dinners out and movies. Over a year, a 50 cents-per-gallon drop in gasoline prices would add roughly $70 billion to the U.S. economy.  Arthur De Villar, a 48-year-old safety inspector for the Federal Aviation Administration, paid $2.96 for gasoline near his home in Manchester, Mo., a suburb of St. Louis - and he recently replaced his SUV with a four-door sedan.  With three boys at home between the ages of 11 and 14, the money De Villar saves on gas still gets spent. But it goes to the amusement park, a Cardinals baseball game or the movie theater.  "It's far better to be able to put (the money) anywhere other than in the gas tank," he says.
> 
> Prices for oil, gasoline and other commodities dove last week along with world stock markets over concerns the global economy is headed for another recession. When economies slow, demand for gasoline, diesel and jet fuel falls as drivers cut back on trips, shippers move fewer goods and vacationers stay closer to home. Oil fell to $79.85 per barrel Friday, a drop of 9 percent for the week. Oil reached a three-year high of $113.93 on April 29.  Economists caution that gasoline savings, while welcome, won't matter much to people if the worst economic fears come to pass.  "Yes it produces some relief, your bill at the gas pump goes down, but it's going down because there are worries that people won't have jobs," says James Hamilton, an economics professor at the University of California, San Diego. "The news has not been good."
> 
> And gasoline prices remain historically high. Gasoline has averaged $3.56 this year, the highest yearly average ever. Americans have cut back driving in the face of high prices, but they are likely to spend more on gasoline in 2011 than ever before - close to $490 billion, according to Tom Kloza, chief oil analyst at the Oil Price Information Service.  Kloza says the latest drop in prices will stick around through most of the fall. And while that may only add $20 a month to a typical commuter's wallet, drivers say it matters.
> 
> MORE


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## waltky

Uncle Ferd down at the gas station fillin' up a-fore gas prices go back up...

*Rising Oil Prices a Failure of Foresight*
_9/29/11 - Oil prices bounced back Thursday as markets reacted to further progress on Europe's debt crisis -- a move that oil traders described as "naïve."_


> West Texas Intermediate (WTI) light sweet crude oil for November delivery was popping $1.54 to $82.75 a barrel and December Brent crude futures were 86 cents higher at $103.42.  The U.S. dollar was down 0.3% to $77.83.  "How many times have we seen this eurozone optimism crushed within a matter of days? I have no reason to believe that this time will be any different," says Kingsview Financial trader Matthew Zeman.  TAC Energy trader Mark Anderle agrees, and describes the European bailout drama as the "euro yo-yo" that is "driving everything," right now.
> 
> Like many traders, Zeman isn't buying into today's market rally, and "skepticism" would be the way to describe the way they're feeling about the headline news out of Europe. He, for one, believes that a default in the eurozone in inevitable -- though an orderly default could provide longer-term relief to the markets.  "Either way, the economic recovery is not shaping up in the way the Fed had hoped, and even a Greek solution or default cannot stop the domino effect at this point. I believe we are in a bear market and significantly rallies will be faded by professionals."  The trader sees oil hitting key resistance levels at $83 to $84.
> 
> A two-day religious holiday that resulted in thin-trading volume Thursday helped magnify the the markets' excited reaction to the approval by the German parliament to extend the European bailout fund.  Better-than-expected U.S. jobless claims, gross domestic product and personal consumption numbers took the markets even higher.  But "just because jobless claims are under 400,000 -- doesn't mean it'll stay that way, Zeman added. "I think market is being short sighted."
> 
> Summit Energy analyst Matt Smith expects oil prices to remain "undecided, volatile and swayed by moves in equities and the dollar," as long as market continue to be forced into reading headline news about Europe and the global economic uncertainty.  GRZ Energy trader Anthony Grisanti will continue to follow the equity markets for clues on where the oil markets are going.  Positive news for equities, he says, will be taken as positive news for oil, while bad news for equities will be interpreted as bad news for oil.  Energy stocks were trading mixed.
> 
> MORE


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## waltky

Thank China for lower oil prices...

*Oil Prices Retract on Signs of a Slowing China*
_10/13/11 -- Oil prices were giving up six straight days of gains as worries about China and Europe sparked selling among traders._


> Brent crude oil for December delivery was falling $1.58 to $107.39 a barrel and West Texas Intermediate (WTI) light sweet crude oil for November delivery was tumbling $2.21 to $83.36, largely in reaction to worries that China, the world's largest consumer of energy, will be consuming less oil going forward.  China overnight posted a smaller-than-expected trade surplus; and crude imports fell 12.2% year-on-year last month. Meanwhile, copper stockpiles nearly doubled than the amount projected, pointing to less consumption of the metal than expected.
> 
> The country spoke of "severe challenges" in the face of the ailing of the global economy.  "This is raising concerns about the engine-room of the global recovery, and its appetite for crude going forward," said Matt Smith, commodity analyst at Summit Energy, a subsidiary of Schneider Electric.  "Add this to a combo of slipping equities and a euro trundling lower as European debt worries flow (after ebbing thus far this week), and crude laces up its selling shoes to run lower."
> 
> The euro was weakening against the dollar Thursday, down 0.7% -- if the euro gets weaker, the dollar gets stronger, leading to weaker oil -- as the markets braced for disappointing developments relating to the European bank recapitalization plans, leading up to the Oct. 23 European Union summit.  "Market optimism towards bank recapitalization plans has been steadily building and this point illustrates the complications of getting a broad consensus," say UBS analysts.
> 
> Receiving much attention has been a Financial Times article suggesting that European banks are uncomfortable with raising new capital in the means so far suggested by EU policymakers, given the high costs involved.  The deep, structural weaknesses of the 17-member euro region's banking sector gnaws at long-time energy analysts such as WeatherBELL Analytics' Alan Lammey, who describes the current state of the European markets as "manic-depressive."
> 
> MORE


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## yidnar

summer is over ...


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## editec

Here's what we've been facing


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## editec

alvenswiz said:


> That's what all of us actually should do..Then only they will realize their mistake...But if we did so then from where are gonna buy the products from?


 
What?

What should we all do?


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## JiggsCasey

itt, some people have no concept of the difference between short- and long-term price trends...

short term: speculators
long term: geology

it's still up 500-600% in 12 years... why do you think that is? some conspiracy?


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## RGR

JiggsCasey said:


> itt, some people have no concept of the difference between short- and long-term price trends...
> 
> short term: speculators
> long term: geology



And parrots can't think for themselves and don't know the difference between either.


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## kiwiman127

I wonder if Cain's 9% Sales Tax will be added to gas, my guess,,yep.


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## JiggsCasey

RGR said:


> JiggsCasey said:
> 
> 
> 
> itt, some people have no concept of the difference between short- and long-term price trends...
> 
> short term: speculators
> long term: geology
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And parrots can't think for themselves and don't know the difference between either.
Click to expand...


The forum sees the irony of a poster repeating the word "parrot" over and over.

Don't bring your butthurt here to another thread just because you're getting your "nothing to see here" argument obliterated elsewhere.


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## RGR

JiggsCasey said:


> RGR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JiggsCasey said:
> 
> 
> 
> itt, some people have no concept of the difference between short- and long-term price trends...
> 
> short term: speculators
> long term: geology
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And parrots can't think for themselves and don't know the difference between either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The forum sees the irony of a poster repeating the word "parrot" over and over.
Click to expand...


Hey, think for yourself just once and I'll stop noticing the obvious.


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## JiggsCasey

RGR said:


> Hey, think for yourself just once and I'll stop noticing the obvious.



That you're the actual parrot here? Yeah, that was obvious many months ago.

And the RGR goes: <bacaw!!!>


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## Mr. H.

JiggsCasey said:


> itt, some people have no concept of the difference between short- and long-term price trends...
> 
> short term: speculators
> long term: geology
> 
> it's still up 500-600% in 12 years... why do you think that is? some conspiracy?



Are speculators going to suddenly disappear some day?


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## waltky

Yea, we think we're gettin' gas cheap at $3.07/gal.

*Strong Dollar Slices Into Oil Prices*
_12/12/11 -- Oil prices finished sharply lower Monday as investor confidence in Europe's debt-crisis plan waned, driving up the U.S. dollar._


> West Texas Intermediate (WTI) light sweet crude oil for January delivery fell $1.64 to $97.77 a barrel and the February Brent crude contract retracted by $1.39 to $107.08 a barrel.  The dollar took off against a basket of major currencies, with the dollar index surging 1.3%. Oil, priced in dollars, typically has an inverse relationship with the currency.  "The EU debt uncertainty continues to have a ripple effect on the U.S. dollar -- making it stronger, which consequently is pushing crude oil lower," said Brian Habacivch, a senior vice president at energy management company Fellon-McCord.
> 
> Fitch painted an unflattering picture of the eurozone after the summit of its leaders Thursday and Friday. The rating agency warned that the continent's debt crisis could extend beyond next year and said a lack of a comprehensive solution to the crisis could increase short-term pressure on euro zone's sovereign ratings.  Meanwhile, Moody's said the summit failed to deliver "decisive policy measures," adding that it will complete its EU sovereign debt review in the first quarter of 2012. Standard & Poor's last week put the eurozone's sovereign debt on negative credit watch, saying it will conclude its review sometime after the EU summit.  "Traders are disappointed in the lack of a strong solution to the euro zone debt problem," said Tradition Energy's senior market director Addison Armstrong.
> 
> Europe will, of course, remain a key oil price driver for the rest of the week, though some attention will shift towards the meeting of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries on Wednesday in Vienna, where output targets will be discussed.  Although the crude demand picture remains uncertain, tight supplies continue to offer oil prices a measure of support.  "In our view, oil prices are more likely to be confronted with substantial upside -- rather than downside risks, given the considerable supply tightness in the market," say JBC energy analysts.  "Apart from U.S. shale oil, there are currently no further positive surprises on the supply side."
> 
> Money managers continued be optimistic about oil prices last week. According to the latest Commitment of Traders Report from the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, they increased their net-long position in NYMEX crude futures by 928 to 174,323 for the week ending Dec. 6.  Energy stocks fell Monday. Hess(HES) tumbled 3.6% to $56.35; Marathon Oil(MRO) lost 3.6% to $27.32; Chevron(CVX) fell 1.1% to $103.07; Exxon(XOM) fell 1.6% to $80.05; Apache(APA) surrendered 3.6% at $93.94; BP(BP) fell 2.1% to $41.83; and Anadarko Petroleum(APC) lost 2.9% to $77.81.
> 
> Source


----------



## whitehall

Democrats worked their political magic in the last forty years to make sure that America would remain dependent on foreign oil. To add insult to injury the radical democrats subscribed to the fraudulent global warming extortion scheme that blamed America for every climate related disaster in the world.


----------



## Mr. H.

I'm still unconvinced about global warming one way or the other. 

But of one thing I'm certain, democrats in general and the public at large have learned absolutely nothing about oil and natural gas in those 40 years.


----------



## whitehall

Mr. H. said:


> I'm still unconvinced about global warming one way or the other.
> 
> But of one thing I'm certain, democrats in general and the public at large have learned absolutely nothing about oil and natural gas in those 40 years.



If you are "still unconvenced about global warming" you are dumber than the "public at large" who have learned to live with democrat energy policies that keep them colld in the winter and poor all year around.


----------



## Mr. H.

whitehall said:


> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still unconvinced about global warming one way or the other.
> 
> But of one thing I'm certain, democrats in general and the public at large have learned absolutely nothing about oil and natural gas in those 40 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you are "still unconvenced about global warming" you are dumber than the "public at large" who have learned to live with democrat energy policies that keep them colld in the winter and poor all year around.
Click to expand...


So, I'm dumb for reading your countless posts re: global warming? Which by the way are quite compelling and convincing. 

Or am I dumb for reading others' countless posts supporting global warming? Which by the way are quite compelling and convincing. 

I admire your tenacity and efforts to refute and rebuke, but the warmists to me seem equally believable. 

Regarding democrats' energy policies- I've followed them for over 35 years. I know that score all too well.


----------



## RGR

It is impossible to be unconvinced about global warming. 15,000 years ago New York was under a continental ice sheet. Obviously, today, it is not. Therefore, something has warmed, at least in the vicinity of New York. The same example applies to the entire country of Canada as well.

Based on this evidence, it is obvious that the world has warmed. I do not know how many prehistorical coal fired power plants it required to melt the continental ice sheets way back when, but it must have been bunches!!


----------



## Mr. H.

I understand. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I've not been so moved as to jump into the debate on either side of the issue. 
But I do like reading both arguments. And I applaud your efforts.


----------



## KissMy

Gasoline prices had been falling for some time in response to the slowing world economy.

Until congress just let the ethanol tax credit expire at the first of the year.

*So now you have to pay more taxes on your gasoline at the pump.*

This also cut gasolines competition so gas prices will continue to rise.

This caused a price spike at the pump that took effect January 1, 2012. Enjoy the higher prices.

     





     


USA Today: End of ethanol subsidy could raise gas prices for 2012

.


----------



## JiggsCasey

KissMy said:


> Gasoline prices had been falling for some time in response to the slowing world economy.
> 
> Until congress just let the ethanol tax credit expire at the first of the year.
> 
> *So now you have to pay more taxes on your gasoline at the pump.*
> 
> This also cut gasolines competition so gas prices will continue to rise.
> 
> This caused a price spike at the pump that took effect January 1, 2012. Enjoy the higher prices.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USA Today: End of ethanol subsidy could raise gas prices for 2012
> 
> .



LOL... still assigning short-term explanations for long-term trends, I see. 

Doesn't change the fact that gas price is up 600% in 12 years. Must all be taxes.


----------



## Douger

If all goes as planned there will only be one oil company in the future and Walmart will be a feeding-vaccination station for the great unwashed masses ( already  is-sorta)
Gas will be $20 and only the rich will afford it. No problem. They'll also all be the shareholders of the company.
You, on the other hand, will freeze to death without it and your food will cost a fortune due to transportation, agro chemical and refrigeration costs.
 It's a cool business plan huh ?


----------



## Iggy

Gas prices are fine. 

Jobs are what's necessary.


----------



## kiwiman127

whitehall said:


> Democrats worked their political magic in the last forty years to make sure that America would remain dependent on foreign oil. To add insult to injury the radical democrats subscribed to the fraudulent global warming extortion scheme that blamed America for every climate related disaster in the world.



During the 40 years the Dems have controlled Congress for much of that time frame BUT the GOP has controlled the presidency for 25 of the 40 years and there's a thing called veto.
So in short, any objective thinker would surmise that it's both parties (as usual) that are responsible.  Please point out how I'm wrong.


----------



## kiwiman127

whitehall said:


> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still unconvinced about global warming one way or the other.
> 
> But of one thing I'm certain, democrats in general and the public at large have learned absolutely nothing about oil and natural gas in those 40 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you are "still unconvenced about global warming" you are dumber than the "public at large" who have learned to live with democrat energy policies that keep them colld in the winter and poor all year around.
Click to expand...


Global Warming or air pollution, either way fossil fuels have contributed negatively to nature.
Despite the fact that Americans have drastically reduced their habit of smoking tobacco, respiratory diseases and respiratory disease related deaths just keep on climbing, mostly due to air pollution.


----------



## RGR

JiggsCasey said:


> Doesn't change the fact that gas price is up 600% in 12 years. Must all be taxes.



Only a halfwit (or parrot) confuses nominal price increase with real ones. Go back to the drawing board Jiggsy, find a 3rd grader to explain the difference to you.


----------



## JiggsCasey

RGR said:


> JiggsCasey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't change the fact that gas price is up 600% in 12 years. Must all be taxes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only a halfwit (or parrot) confuses nominal price increase with real ones. Go back to the drawing board Jiggsy, find a 3rd grader to explain the difference to you.
Click to expand...


LOL... so Saudi Aramco employs "halfwits?" Because they allude to the same long-term trend. Nominal or real, the price is WAY up, long term.

Gas prices are up for a number of reasons, but the root cause is because demand for global energy has outstripped supply, and surplus capacity is razor thin. You've gotten your ass kicked so badly on this topic, you're now reduced to two-sentence japes and an escape hatch.

You're completely irrelevant. Go back to your Stephen Gorelick bible and conjure up some new spin.


----------



## RGR

JiggsCasey said:


> RGR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only a halfwit (or parrot) confuses nominal price increase with real ones. Go back to the drawing board Jiggsy, find a 3rd grader to explain the difference to you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL... so Saudi Aramco employs "halfwits?"
Click to expand...


Of course not. Saudi Armaco employs people I helped train while they were in college. So I know they aren't halfwits. Unlike parrots who don't know the differences between reserves or resources or any of the other topics so wrapped up in oily discussions.



			
				JiggsCasey said:
			
		

> Because they allude to the same long-term trend. Nominal or real, the price is WAY up, long term.



Idiot. Real crude prices now are lower than they were during the late 70's. And during the American Civil War as well. So the long term real price trend is that prices have been at these levels before your grandmother parrot was born, before you were born, perhaps while you were alive, and are still there now.

Perhaps you need that 2nd grader to educate you on the differences between real and nominal, it not being a common topic in parroting cut and paste classes?



			
				JiggsCasey said:
			
		

> Gas prices are up for a number of reasons, but the root cause is because demand for global energy has outstripped supply, and surplus capacity is razor thin.



Again, only an idiot confuses GAS prices with ENERGY demand. Learn the difference or go back to parrot school. Go find your superior, say a 2nd grader, and get them to explain it to you.



			
				JiggsCasey said:
			
		

> You're completely irrelevant. Go back to your Stephen Gorelick bible and conjure up some new spin.



You would prefer Scott Montgomery? Duncan Clarke? Dare I say...Yergin? You don't even understand PEAKER references, I don't think you even know what pearls are, being a more ignorant than average swine.


----------



## Old Rocks

Really, really humorous. All this talk of drilling and refineries. Folks, we are exporting gasoline and diesel by the tanker load. There is no shortage of gasoline in the US. It is just that the very people that you are working so hard to maintain their tax cuts, and get even more for them, are playing you for suckers. And when the price of gas hits $5, you will still be puckering up and kissing their asses.


----------



## Mr. H.

Old Rocks said:


> Really, really humorous. All this talk of drilling and refineries. Folks, we are exporting gasoline and diesel by the tanker load. There is no shortage of gasoline in the US. It is just that the very people that you are working so hard to maintain their tax cuts, and get even more for them, are playing you for suckers. And when the price of gas hits $5, you will still be puckering up and kissing their asses.



Who are "they"? 
Who are "the very people"?

Are oil and gasoline our only expenditures in life?

You need a hobby. Quit fixating on petrophobic mania already. 

Gasoline and diesel exports should be the least of your concerns.


----------



## Middleoftheroad

RGR said:


> JiggsCasey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RGR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only a halfwit (or parrot) confuses nominal price increase with real ones. Go back to the drawing board Jiggsy, find a 3rd grader to explain the difference to you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL... so Saudi Aramco employs "halfwits?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not. Saudi Armaco employs people I helped train while they were in college. So I know they aren't halfwits. Unlike parrots who don't know the differences between reserves or resources or any of the other topics so wrapped up in oily discussions.
> 
> 
> 
> Idiot. Real crude prices now are lower than they were during the late 70's. And during the American Civil War as well. So the long term real price trend is that prices have been at these levels before your grandmother parrot was born, before you were born, perhaps while you were alive, and are still there now.
> 
> Perhaps you need that 2nd grader to educate you on the differences between real and nominal, it not being a common topic in parroting cut and paste classes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JiggsCasey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gas prices are up for a number of reasons, but the root cause is because demand for global energy has outstripped supply, and surplus capacity is razor thin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, only an idiot confuses GAS prices with ENERGY demand. Learn the difference or go back to parrot school. Go find your superior, say a 2nd grader, and get them to explain it to you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JiggsCasey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're completely irrelevant. Go back to your Stephen Gorelick bible and conjure up some new spin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You would prefer Scott Montgomery? Duncan Clarke? Dare I say...Yergin? You don't even understand PEAKER references, I don't think you even know what pearls are, being a more ignorant than average swine.
Click to expand...


You are purposefully misleading.
Yes it is about equal to the price during the late 70s, when it was the worst in US history.  That is the new norm.
Forbes says your a liar too.
Crude Oil Prices 1861 - 2009 - Forbes.com
This graph is in 2009 dollars, which is a little lower then todays dollars but not a great difference.  Go ahead and extrapolate the graph.  I guess we are really only seeing about a 400% increase in the price.


----------



## RGR

Middleoftheroad said:


> You are purposefully misleading.



By stating facts? That doesn't strike me as a reasonable statement at all. While the peak oil religion might be entitled to its own hysterical conclusions, they don't get to make up their own facts.



			
				Middleoftheroad said:
			
		

> Yes it is about equal to the price during the late 70s, when it was the worst in US history.  That is the new norm.



Again, no, the late 70's weren't the worst. Give or take, they are about only 1 of 3 bad periods of high prices. Check out the Forbes reference you used. Check out the American Civil War periods. So no, it isn't just the 70's we are talking about, but soon after oil came into the modern age it was nearly as expensive, and during the 70's, and now. Peakers of course are very unhappy with anyone old enough to have been around back then, because they can talk about shortages and rationing, windfall profits, and a global peak oil that was actually a peak, instead to the gyrations they are now going through trying to explain how a peak oil can be a plateau oil.

As far as the "new norm", that was claimed by peak oilers during the run up in 2008 as well. QUickly to be followed by the next new norm of $35/bbl, and <$2.00 gasoline in the States. Like I said, you don't get to make up your own facts any more than the crackpot religion peakers do



			
				Middleoftheroad said:
			
		

> Go ahead and extrapolate the graph.  I guess we are really only seeing about a 400% increase in the price.



And I see quite a few decreases of nearly as much over the span of the commodity in question (including within the past 4 years). While cherry picking timeframes is a time honored tradition of those trying to make a point, it has nothing to do with the overall picture.


----------



## HomeInspect

The Energy Department isn&#8217;t working to lower gasoline prices directly, Secretary Steven Chu said Tuesday after a Republican lawmaker scolded him for his now-infamous 2008 comment that gas prices in the U.S. should be as high as in Europe.

Instead, DOE is working to promote alternatives such as biofuels and electric vehicles, Chu told House appropriators during a hearing on DOE&#8217;s budget.

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But Americans need relief now, Rep. Alan Nunnelee (R-Miss.) said &#8212; not high gasoline prices that could eventually push them to alternatives.

&#8220;I can&#8217;t look at motivations. I have to look at results. And under this administration the price of gasoline has doubled,&#8221; Nunnelee told Chu.

&#8220;The people of north Mississippi can&#8217;t be here, so I have to be here and be their voice for them,&#8221; Nunnelee added. &#8220;I have to tell you that $8 a gallon gasoline makes them afraid. It&#8217;s a cruel tax on the people of north Mississippi as they try to go back and forth to work. It&#8217;s a cloud hanging over economic development and job creation.&#8221;

Chu expressed sympathy but said his department is working to lower energy prices in the long term.

&#8220;We agree there is great suffering when the price of gasoline increases in the United States, and so we are very concerned about this,&#8221; said Chu, speaking to the House Appropriations energy and water subcommittee. &#8220;As I have repeatedly said, in the Department of Energy, what we&#8217;re trying to do is diversify our energy supply for transportation so that we have cost-effective means.&#8221;

Chu specifically cited a reported breakthrough announced Monday by Envia Systems, which received funding from DOE&#8217;s ARPA-E, that could help slash the price of electric vehicle batteries.

He also touted natural gas as &#8220;great&#8221; and said DOE is researching how to reduce the cost of compressed natural gas tanks for vehicles.

High gasoline prices will make research into such alternatives more urgent, Chu said.

&#8220;But is the overall goal to get our price&#8221; of gasoline down, asked Nunnelee.

&#8220;No, the overall goal is to decrease our dependency on oil, to build and strengthen our economy,&#8221; Chu replied. &#8220;We think that if you consider all these energy policies, including energy efficiency, we think that we can go a long way to becoming less dependent on oil and [diversifying] our supply and we&#8217;ll help the American economy and the American consumers.&#8221;


----------



## usmcstinger

We have enough natural gas to last us for about 100 years. Big Oil is into the recovery of Natural Gas. It burns cleaner than any fossil fuel. It can run the turbines at electric power plants and run all our cars.
It is less expensive than the gasoline used today.
 However our president can not accept tis fact. We are seeing that green energy is failing just as it did in Spain.


----------

