# Why do the U.S. support Ukraine which has Nazi laws?



## Dissident

In the middle of April, I published an article which dealt with the question whether some Ukrainian laws are the Nazi ones (see here).
This article was discussed on USMB (see here) and nobody could disprove that these laws are the Nazi ones, indeed.

 It’s an obvious fact that, for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars - according to these laws - are “first-rate” citizens of Ukraine and have more rights; ethnic Hungarians are “second-rate” citizens and have less rights than Crimean Tatars; and ethnic Russians are “third-rate” citizens and have less rights than Hungarians.



Spoiler



It’s another obvious fact, that Ukrainian rulers always make territorial claims to the Russian Crimean Peninsula, where ethnic Russians amount to 67.9% of population (see here). * 
It means that the Ukrainian rulers want to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!* 

At the same time, Ukraine intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join NATO etc. The Russian government many times tried to persuade the Ukrainian rulers to remain nonaligned, to let Crimea stay in Russia etc. But Ukraine continued to arm itself etc.

At a certain point of time the Russian government decided that the actions of the Ukrainian rulers reached a dangerous point and very soon the situation could become even more dangerous. And then, the Russian government decided to start a military operation against Ukraine.

But the U.S. supported and support all Ukrainian actions including its claims to the Crimean Peninsula – despite of the Nazi laws in Ukraine.
*It means that the U.S. support, inter alia, the Ukrainian plan to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!* 

The question naturally arises – Why do the U.S. support such a country as Ukraine?

My opinion is that it doesn’t matter for the U.S. what kind of a country Ukraine is. The U.S. want to reduce Russian influence in Europe; the U.S. want to sell their liquefied gas in Europe etc.
Therefore, in my opinion, the U.S. are ready to support even Nazis if these Nazis are hostile towards Russia.

Source


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## jbrownson0831

Dissident said:


> In the middle of April, I published an article which dealt with the question whether some Ukrainian laws are the Nazi ones (see here).
> This article was discussed on USMB (see here) and nobody could disprove that these laws are the Nazi ones, indeed.
> 
> It’s an obvious fact that, for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars - according to these laws - are “first-rate” citizens of Ukraine and have more rights; ethnic Hungarians are “second-rate” citizens and have less rights than Crimean Tatars; and ethnic Russians are “third-rate” citizens and have less rights than Hungarians.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> It’s another obvious fact, that Ukrainian rulers always make territorial claims to the Russian Crimean Peninsula, where ethnic Russians amount to 67.9% of population (see here). *
> It means that the Ukrainian rulers want to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> At the same time, Ukraine intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join NATO etc. The Russian government many times tried to pervade the Ukrainian rulers to remain nonaligned, to let Crimea stay in Russia etc. But Ukraine continued to arm itself etc.
> 
> At a certain point of time the Russian government decided that the actions of the Ukrainian rulers reached a dangerous point and very soon the situation could become even more dangerous. And then, the Russian government decided to start a military operation against Ukraine.
> 
> But the U.S. supported and support all Ukrainian actions including its claims to the Crimean Peninsula – despite of the Nazi laws in Ukraine.
> *It means that the U.S. support, inter alia, the Ukrainian plan to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> The question naturally arises – Why do the U.S. support such a country as Ukraine?
> 
> My opinion is that it doesn’t matter for the U.S. what kind of a country Ukraine is. The U.S. want to reduce Russian influence in Europe; the U.S. want to sell their liquefied gas in Europe etc.
> Therefore, in my opinion, the U.S. are ready to support even Nazis if these Nazis are hostile towards Russia.
> 
> Source


The Dims support the Ukraine because this is where all the millions are laundered and they get their cuts.


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## g5000

Dissident said:


> In the middle of April, I published an article which dealt with the question whether some Ukrainian laws are the Nazi ones (see here).
> This article was discussed on USMB (see here) and nobody could disprove that these laws are the Nazi ones, indeed.
> 
> It’s an obvious fact that, for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars - according to these laws - are “first-rate” citizens of Ukraine and have more rights; ethnic Hungarians are “second-rate” citizens and have less rights than Crimean Tatars; and ethnic Russians are “third-rate” citizens and have less rights than Hungarians.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> It’s another obvious fact, that Ukrainian rulers always make territorial claims to the Russian Crimean Peninsula, where ethnic Russians amount to 67.9% of population (see here). *
> It means that the Ukrainian rulers want to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> At the same time, Ukraine intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join NATO etc. The Russian government many times tried to persuade the Ukrainian rulers to remain nonaligned, to let Crimea stay in Russia etc. But Ukraine continued to arm itself etc.
> 
> At a certain point of time the Russian government decided that the actions of the Ukrainian rulers reached a dangerous point and very soon the situation could become even more dangerous. And then, the Russian government decided to start a military operation against Ukraine.
> 
> But the U.S. supported and support all Ukrainian actions including its claims to the Crimean Peninsula – despite of the Nazi laws in Ukraine.
> *It means that the U.S. support, inter alia, the Ukrainian plan to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> The question naturally arises – Why do the U.S. support such a country as Ukraine?
> 
> My opinion is that it doesn’t matter for the U.S. what kind of a country Ukraine is. The U.S. want to reduce Russian influence in Europe; the U.S. want to sell their liquefied gas in Europe etc.
> Therefore, in my opinion, the U.S. are ready to support even Nazis if these Nazis are hostile towards Russia.
> 
> Source


So all you have is the Ukrainian language is taught to all students, comrade?  And that makes them Nazis?  BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!

Be careful.  There are a lot of Republicans who believe only English should be taught in our schools, too.  They demand English be made the official language of the US. Are they Nazis, comrade?


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## Uncensored2008

Dissident said:


> In the middle of April, I published an article which dealt with the question whether some Ukrainian laws are the Nazi ones (see here).
> This article was discussed on USMB (see here) and nobody could disprove that these laws are the Nazi ones, indeed.
> 
> It’s an obvious fact that, for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars - according to these laws - are “first-rate” citizens of Ukraine and have more rights; ethnic Hungarians are “second-rate” citizens and have less rights than Crimean Tatars; and ethnic Russians are “third-rate” citizens and have less rights than Hungarians.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> It’s another obvious fact, that Ukrainian rulers always make territorial claims to the Russian Crimean Peninsula, where ethnic Russians amount to 67.9% of population (see here). *
> It means that the Ukrainian rulers want to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> At the same time, Ukraine intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join NATO etc. The Russian government many times tried to pervade the Ukrainian rulers to remain nonaligned, to let Crimea stay in Russia etc. But Ukraine continued to arm itself etc.
> 
> At a certain point of time the Russian government decided that the actions of the Ukrainian rulers reached a dangerous point and very soon the situation could become even more dangerous. And then, the Russian government decided to start a military operation against Ukraine.
> 
> But the U.S. supported and support all Ukrainian actions including its claims to the Crimean Peninsula – despite of the Nazi laws in Ukraine.
> *It means that the U.S. support, inter alia, the Ukrainian plan to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> The question naturally arises – Why do the U.S. support such a country as Ukraine?
> 
> My opinion is that it doesn’t matter for the U.S. what kind of a country Ukraine is. The U.S. want to reduce Russian influence in Europe; the U.S. want to sell their liquefied gas in Europe etc.
> Therefore, in my opinion, the U.S. are ready to support even Nazis if these Nazis are hostile towards Russia.
> 
> Source



I don't support Ukraine.

I oppose Russia.

I want Putin and his Stalinist thugs to fail at anything they do.

Joseph Stalin committed genocide against Ethnic Ukrainians and replaced them with Russians. This has the effect of making people in that region less than happy with Russians.


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## Confederate Soldier

_"As for ethnic Russians, the education for their children in Ukraine can be provided in elementary school with use of the Russian language together with learning of the Ukrainian language, but after the fourth grade they must be taught with use of the Ukrainian language during at least *80%* of annual school hours."_

Oh my god!!! NAZI!!!!!  Maybe because they live in the nation of Ukraine, they should be taught Ukrainian? I dunno, maybe it's just me. Much like foreign kids living in America are taught English in schools.


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## Uncensored2008

jbrownson0831 said:


> The Dims support the Ukraine because this is where all the millions are laundered and they get their cuts.



Let's not forget that Cocaine Mitch had his daughter on the Burisma board too. The Swamp has used Ukraine to embezzle foreign aid for decades. Hillary set the scheme up back when she was SOS under Barry da Fairy.


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## Baron Von Murderpaws

How do you expect the DemonicRats to launder our tax dollars and funnel them back to the DNC, without the help of Nazi-esque traitors and puppets???????


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## g5000

Man, if this is the best you useful idiots can come up with, one can only laugh one's ass off.

Another useful idiot shows his colors.


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## Rigby5

The Ukraine is one of the most reclusive and racist countries in the world.
That is why 80% of the guards at Hitler's death camps in WWII were Ukrainian.
Like Demjanjuk at Sobibor.
The Ukraine deliberately started this war, by murdering ethnic Russians, stealing Russian oil, violating treaties, trying to put NATO nukes on Russia's border, etc.

But even more important, is that the US not only is going to lose this war, but may never recover from that loss.
We already had a dangerous $45 trillion national debt, and Biden just gave the Ukraine another $40 billion in our most expensive weapons.
That not only is illegal, but risks default.
The world could easily decide to drop the US dollar as its reserve currency.
Remember it is China who carries most of our national debt load.
Russia has captured many of the weapons we sent, so we are giving away our secrets.
Ultimately Russia has to win, even if that means nukes.
And we are totally unprepared for the consequences of our own stupidity.


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## g5000

Rigby5 said:


> The Ukraine deliberately started this war


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## Uncensored2008

Rigby5 said:


> The Ukraine is one of the most reclusive and racist countries in the world.
> That is why 80% of the guards at Hitler's death camps in WWII were Ukrainian.
> Like Demjanjuk at Sobibor.
> The Ukraine deliberately started this war, by murdering ethnic Russians, stealing Russian oil, violating treaties, trying to put NATO nukes on Russia's border, etc.
> 
> But even more important, is that the US not only is going to lose this war, but may never recover from that loss.
> We already had a dangerous $45 trillion national debt, and Biden just gave the Ukraine another $40 billion in our most expensive weapons.
> That not only is illegal, but risks default.
> The world could easily decide to drop the US dollar as its reserve currency.
> Remember it is China who carries most of our national debt load.
> Russia has captured many of the weapons we sent, so we are giving away our secrets.
> Ultimately Russia has to win, even if that means nukes.
> And we are totally unprepared for the consequences of our own stupidity.



Thanks for your Analysis, Baghdad Bob.


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## Confederate Soldier

I love the use of the term, "Ethnic Russians".


New York City has a massive Ethnic Italian population, yet Italy does not invade New York.

Pennsylvania has a large population of Ethnic Germans, yet Germany does not invade Pennsylvania. 

Louisiana has a large population of Ethnic French, yet France does not invade Louisiana. 

Texas has a large population of Ethnic Mexicans, yet Mexico doe- wait a minute....


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## Ralph Norton

"80% of the guards at Hitler's death camps in WWII were Ukrainian".
Source?


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## Confederate Soldier

Ralph Norton said:


> "80% of the guards at Hitler's death camps in WWII were Ukrainian".
> Source?




There were a lot of Ukrainian prison guards at camps that held Russian prisoners, which no doubt pleased Ukrainians. The Russians tortured Ukrainians for years, and now it was their turn.


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## Uncensored2008

Ralph Norton said:


> "80% of the guards at Hitler's death camps in WWII were Ukrainian".
> Source?



Thanks, I almost jumped on that one. A country that was devastated by Stalin and had 95% of their native population murdered might have been sympathetic to Hitler - IF they ever heard of him. But they were slaves under the Soviet masters and weren't going to do anything in regards to the war.


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## Uncensored2008

Confederate Soldier said:


> There were a lot of Ukrainian prison guards at camps that held Russian prisoners, which no doubt pleased Ukrainians. The Russians tortured Ukrainians for years, and now it was their turn.



Really?

How did Ukrainians, the tiny smattering that had survived Stalin's genocide, get from Ukraine to German occupied territory?


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## jbrownson0831

Uncensored2008 said:


> Let's not forget that Cocaine Mitch had his daughter on the Burisma board too. The Swamp has used Ukraine to embezzle foreign aid for decades. Hillary set the scheme up back when she was SOS under Barry da Fairy.


No problem with that!  Any swamp critters need to be outed once Trump takes over again.


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## Dekster

Dissident said:


> In the middle of April, I published an article which dealt with the question whether some Ukrainian laws are the Nazi ones (see here).
> This article was discussed on USMB (see here) and nobody could disprove that these laws are the Nazi ones, indeed.
> 
> It’s an obvious fact that, for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars - according to these laws - are “first-rate” citizens of Ukraine and have more rights; ethnic Hungarians are “second-rate” citizens and have less rights than Crimean Tatars; and ethnic Russians are “third-rate” citizens and have less rights than Hungarians.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> It’s another obvious fact, that Ukrainian rulers always make territorial claims to the Russian Crimean Peninsula, where ethnic Russians amount to 67.9% of population (see here). *
> It means that the Ukrainian rulers want to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> At the same time, Ukraine intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join NATO etc. The Russian government many times tried to persuade the Ukrainian rulers to remain nonaligned, to let Crimea stay in Russia etc. But Ukraine continued to arm itself etc.
> 
> At a certain point of time the Russian government decided that the actions of the Ukrainian rulers reached a dangerous point and very soon the situation could become even more dangerous. And then, the Russian government decided to start a military operation against Ukraine.
> 
> But the U.S. supported and support all Ukrainian actions including its claims to the Crimean Peninsula – despite of the Nazi laws in Ukraine.
> *It means that the U.S. support, inter alia, the Ukrainian plan to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> The question naturally arises – Why do the U.S. support such a country as Ukraine?
> 
> My opinion is that it doesn’t matter for the U.S. what kind of a country Ukraine is. The U.S. want to reduce Russian influence in Europe; the U.S. want to sell their liquefied gas in Europe etc.
> Therefore, in my opinion, the U.S. are ready to support even Nazis if these Nazis are hostile towards Russia.
> 
> Source



Maybe we aren't supporting Ukraine so much as we are opposing Vlad.


----------



## easyt65

Dissident said:


> In the middle of April, I published an article which dealt with the question whether some Ukrainian laws are the Nazi ones (see here).
> This article was discussed on USMB (see here) and nobody could disprove that these laws are the Nazi ones, indeed.
> 
> It’s an obvious fact that, for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars - according to these laws - are “first-rate” citizens of Ukraine and have more rights; ethnic Hungarians are “second-rate” citizens and have less rights than Crimean Tatars; and ethnic Russians are “third-rate” citizens and have less rights than Hungarians.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> It’s another obvious fact, that Ukrainian rulers always make territorial claims to the Russian Crimean Peninsula, where ethnic Russians amount to 67.9% of population (see here). *
> It means that the Ukrainian rulers want to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> At the same time, Ukraine intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join NATO etc. The Russian government many times tried to persuade the Ukrainian rulers to remain nonaligned, to let Crimea stay in Russia etc. But Ukraine continued to arm itself etc.
> 
> At a certain point of time the Russian government decided that the actions of the Ukrainian rulers reached a dangerous point and very soon the situation could become even more dangerous. And then, the Russian government decided to start a military operation against Ukraine.
> 
> But the U.S. supported and support all Ukrainian actions including its claims to the Crimean Peninsula – despite of the Nazi laws in Ukraine.
> *It means that the U.S. support, inter alia, the Ukrainian plan to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> The question naturally arises – Why do the U.S. support such a country as Ukraine?
> 
> My opinion is that it doesn’t matter for the U.S. what kind of a country Ukraine is. The U.S. want to reduce Russian influence in Europe; the U.S. want to sell their liquefied gas in Europe etc.
> Therefore, in my opinion, the U.S. are ready to support even Nazis if these Nazis are hostile towards Russia.
> 
> Source


Biden's Truth Commission is right out of Hitler's & Little Kim's playback, yet snowflakes fall in line with whatever Biden says, defends everything he does.  

What's your point?


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## Richard-H

Dissident said:


> In the middle of April, I published an article which dealt with the question whether some Ukrainian laws are the Nazi ones (see here).
> This article was discussed on USMB (see here) and nobody could disprove that these laws are the Nazi ones, indeed.
> 
> It’s an obvious fact that, for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars - according to these laws - are “first-rate” citizens of Ukraine and have more rights; ethnic Hungarians are “second-rate” citizens and have less rights than Crimean Tatars; and ethnic Russians are “third-rate” citizens and have less rights than Hungarians.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> It’s another obvious fact, that Ukrainian rulers always make territorial claims to the Russian Crimean Peninsula, where ethnic Russians amount to 67.9% of population (see here). *
> It means that the Ukrainian rulers want to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> At the same time, Ukraine intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join NATO etc. The Russian government many times tried to persuade the Ukrainian rulers to remain nonaligned, to let Crimea stay in Russia etc. But Ukraine continued to arm itself etc.
> 
> At a certain point of time the Russian government decided that the actions of the Ukrainian rulers reached a dangerous point and very soon the situation could become even more dangerous. And then, the Russian government decided to start a military operation against Ukraine.
> 
> But the U.S. supported and support all Ukrainian actions including its claims to the Crimean Peninsula – despite of the Nazi laws in Ukraine.
> *It means that the U.S. support, inter alia, the Ukrainian plan to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> The question naturally arises – Why do the U.S. support such a country as Ukraine?
> 
> My opinion is that it doesn’t matter for the U.S. what kind of a country Ukraine is. The U.S. want to reduce Russian influence in Europe; the U.S. want to sell their liquefied gas in Europe etc.
> Therefore, in my opinion, the U.S. are ready to support even Nazis if these Nazis are hostile towards Russia.
> 
> Source



According to the definition of Nazi Laws' that you promote, every country in the world including the U.S. & Russia have Nazi Laws.

Nazi-ism is a whole lot more insidious than that.


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## Dissident

g5000 said:


> So all you have is the Ukrainian language is taught to all students, comrade?  And that makes them Nazis?



Have you read the first post of the thread “Aren't these Ukrainian laws the Nazi ones?”
It has nothing to do with “the Ukrainian language is taught to all students”.

The above mention thread describes how *Ukrainian citizens according to their ethnic origin are divided into categories which have different rights* – ethnic Crimean Tatars have more rights to use the Tatar language during the education; ethnic Hungarians have less rights than Crimean Tatars in their education; and ethnic Russians have less rights than Hungarians.

Division of citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, which have different rights, is the main feature of Nazism.


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## Dissident

Richard-H said:


> Nazi-ism is a whole lot more insidious than that.



Please give your definition of a Nazi state.
For me, *Nazi state is a state whose laws divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories having different rights.*
And the modern Ukraine matches this definition.


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## easyt65

What is the Democrat anti-Semite Party's fascination and obsession with Nazis?


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## easyt65

Dissident said:


> Please give your definition of a Nazi state.
> For me, *Nazi state is a state whose laws divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories having different rights.*




Like Democrats...


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## Confederate Soldier

Uncensored2008 said:


> Really?
> 
> How did Ukrainians, the tiny smattering that had survived Stalin's genocide, get from Ukraine to German occupied territory?



They either volunteered, or were former POW's themselves that "switched sides".


When the Germans invaded Ukraine, a lot of Ukrainians saw them as liberators from the Soviets. They were happy to help get back at the Russians. SS Galicia division, (14th SS "Freiwillgen" Division) was made up of Ukrainian volunteers. They were tasked in anti-partisan affairs, and some members volunteered to be camp guards. In Poland, a number of Ukrainians were close by enough to be either pressed into service, or were given the option to "volunteer" for service. Some Ukrainian POW's chose this option. There were always a number of radicals, and these men volunteered to be sent wherever they were needed. 


The fact is, the majority of death camp guards were German. There were some other nationalities who volunteered, a number of them Ukrainian, but the majority were German. In POW camps, (different from death camps), the numbers of foreign volunteers were much higher. Any POW camp that held Russian prisoners was bound to have a set of Ukrainian guards in place.


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## Confederate Soldier

Dissident said:


> Have you read the first post of the thread “Aren't these Ukrainian laws the Nazi ones?”
> It has nothing to do with “the Ukrainian language is taught to all students”.
> 
> The above mention thread describes how *Ukrainian citizens according to their ethnic origin are divided into categories which have different rights* – ethnic Crimean Tatars have more rights to use the Tatar language during the education; ethnic Hungarians have less rights than Crimean Tatars in their education; and ethnic Russians have less rights than Hungarians.
> 
> Division of citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, which have different rights, is the main feature of Nazism.





What rights are different? You never explained. Give us the actual laws that target ethnic minorities, other than teaching them the national language.


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## Uncensored2008

Dissident said:


> Please give your definition of a Nazi state.
> For me, *Nazi state is a state whose laws divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories having different rights.*



So like America where whites are inferior citizens that can be gunned down and arrested without charge for protesting?


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## Donald H

The difficult question on why the US supports the Ukraine, the Saudis, or several corrupt regimes is easy to answer when the facts are acknowledged.

The US doesn't support the Ukraine. The Ukraine is only a pawn and a proxy country for America's war on Russia.

America's government is gambling with the lives of Americans, due to the increase in the possibility of nuclear war.

The objective of the confidence propaganda is in keeping Americans feeling that it's worth it.

All of America's many wars of aggression since WW2 can be argued to be worth it, with some conviction. This one against Russia is a much different gamble.

Questioning whether or not Russia's nuclear arsenal will even work anymore can be a part of the gamble!


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## bripat9643

Dissident said:


> Have you read the first post of the thread “Aren't these Ukrainian laws the Nazi ones?”
> It has nothing to do with “the Ukrainian language is taught to all students”.
> 
> The above mention thread describes how *Ukrainian citizens according to their ethnic origin are divided into categories which have different rights* – ethnic Crimean Tatars have more rights to use the Tatar language during the education; ethnic Hungarians have less rights than Crimean Tatars in their education; and ethnic Russians have less rights than Hungarians.
> 
> Division of citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, which have different rights, is the main feature of Nazism.


It's also the main feature of liberalism.


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## bripat9643

Dissident said:


> Please give your definition of a Nazi state.
> For me, *Nazi state is a state whose laws divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories having different rights.*


Like the USA?


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## bodecea

jbrownson0831 said:


> The Dims support the Ukraine because this is where all the millions are laundered and they get their cuts.


Another Republican White-winger in support of Putin the war criminal.


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## Uncensored2008

Confederate Soldier said:


> They either volunteered, or were former POW's themselves that "switched sides".
> 
> 
> When the Germans invaded Ukraine, a lot of Ukrainians saw them as liberators from the Soviets. They were happy to help get back at the Russians. SS Galicia division, (14th SS "Freiwillgen" Division) was made up of Ukrainian volunteers. They were tasked in anti-partisan affairs, and some members volunteered to be camp guards. In Poland, a number of Ukrainians were close by enough to be either pressed into service, or were given the option to "volunteer" for service. Some Ukrainian POW's chose this option. There were always a number of radicals, and these men volunteered to be sent wherever they were needed.
> 
> 
> The fact is, the majority of death camp guards were German. There were some other nationalities who volunteered, a number of them Ukrainian, but the majority were German. In POW camps, (different from death camps), the numbers of foreign volunteers were much higher. Any POW camp that held Russian prisoners was bound to have a set of Ukrainian guards in place.



The thing is, there WEREN'T a lot of Ukrainians - they were the subject of genocide. Stalin had murdered 95% of them. The occupants of the Ukraine at that time were mostly Ethnic Russians, and HEAVILY Jewish, which did not work out well for them under the Nazis.






						Research Guides: The 1932-1933 Ukrainian Famine: Stalin’s Genocide: Introduction
					

Research Guides: The 1932-1933 Ukrainian Famine: Stalin’s Genocide: Introduction




					guides.library.manoa.hawaii.edu


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## g5000

Dissident said:


> Have you read the first post of the thread “Aren't these Ukrainian laws the Nazi ones?”
> It has nothing to do with “the Ukrainian language is taught to all students”.
> 
> The above mention thread describes how *Ukrainian citizens according to their ethnic origin are divided into categories which have different rights* – ethnic Crimean Tatars have more rights to use the Tatar language during the education; ethnic Hungarians have less rights than Crimean Tatars in their education; and ethnic Russians have less rights than Hungarians.
> 
> Division of citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, which have different rights, is the main feature of Nazism.


Dude, I read it.  You are claiming that ethnic minorities being taught the Ukrainian language IN UKRAINE makes Ukraine a Nazi state!

This is the most idiotic reasoning possible.


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## Rigby5

Uncensored2008 said:


> Thanks for your Analysis, Baghdad Bob.



And isn't it true that Baghdad Bob was right that the US was lying about Iraqi WMD, the US was committing war crimes, the invasion was illegal, the US murdered half a million innocent Iraqi civilians, the US illegally tortured POWs in Bagrham, etc.?
Are you trying to imply that Baghdad Bob was wrong in some way?

The US has always been on the wrong side, deliberately starting wars to invade or install dictators, like with Chaig Kai Shek in China, Syngman Rhee in Korea, Diem in Vietnam, Samosa in Nicaragua, Pinochet in Chile, Batista in Cuba, the Shah in Iran, etc.


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## g5000

jbrownson0831 said:


> The Dims support the Ukraine because this is where all the millions are laundered and they get their cuts.


Um...retard?  Paul Manafort did launder his money that he received for his work for a Putin-backed puppet in Ukraine.

But he's not a Dim.  He was Trump's right-hand man during the 2016 campaign.

He went to prison for it because he actually was guilty of money laundering.


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## Dissident

Confederate Soldier said:


> I love the use of the term, "Ethnic Russians".
> ...
> Pennsylvania has a large population of Ethnic Germans, yet Germany does not invade Pennsylvania.



If Pennsylvania were an independent state and made territorial claims to a region which Germany considers its own; and if at the same time Pennsylvania intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join a military alliance etc., couldn’t Germany consider Pennsylvania as a threat?

And if Germany could consider Pennsylvania as a threat, wouldn’t Germany have the right to start a military operation against Pennsylvania?

In 2003 the U.S. decided that Iraq was a threat to the U.S. and therefore the U.S. invaded Iraq and occupied it *for 8 years* – till December 2011.

In 1982 Israel decided that Lebanon was a threat to Israel and therefore Israel invaded Lebanon and occupied the Southern part of this country *for 18 years* – till May 2000.

And so on.


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## Richard-H

Dissident said:


> Please give your definition of a Nazi state.
> For me, *Nazi state is a state whose laws divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories having different rights.*
> And the modern Ukraine matches this definition.



Unlike you, I don't make up definitions on a whim:






						Nazism - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## g5000

Rigby5 said:


> And isn't it true that Baghdad Bob was right that the US was lying about Iraqi WMD, the US was committing war crimes, the invasion was illegal, the US murdered half a million innocent Iraqi civilians, the US illegally tortured POWs in Bagrham, etc.?
> Are you trying to imply that Baghdad Bob was wrong in some way?
> 
> The US has always been on the wrong side, deliberately starting wars to invade or install dictators, like with Chaig Kai Shek in China, Syngman Rhee in Korea, Diem in Vietnam, Samosa in Nicaragua, Pinochet in Chile, Batista in Cuba, the Shah in Iran, etc.


Every year after the invasion, the pseuco-conservatives on this board insisted there were WMDs in Iraq.  And whenever WMDs showed up elsewhere on the planet, they claimed the offender had gotten them from Iraq, with ZERO evidence.

Then along comes Trump, who has always insisted there were NOT any WMDs in Iraq, and who had insisted Bush should have been impeached for lying (how ironic), and suddenly all the pseudocons turned on a dime and not a word was said about WMDs in Iraq ever again.


----------



## Rigby5

Confederate Soldier said:


> I love the use of the term, "Ethnic Russians".
> 
> 
> New York City has a massive Ethnic Italian population, yet Italy does not invade New York.
> 
> Pennsylvania has a large population of Ethnic Germans, yet Germany does not invade Pennsylvania.
> 
> Louisiana has a large population of Ethnic French, yet France does not invade Louisiana.
> 
> Texas has a large population of Ethnic Mexicans, yet Mexico doe- wait a minute....



The difference is that no one illegally gave part of Italy to NYC in 1955, like Khrushchev (a Ukrainian), did with many Russian provinces being illegally given to the Ukraine.

And NYC is not illegally murdering ethnic Italians the way the Ukraine is murdering ethnic Russians.
Who do you think were those bodies we see in Bocha?  They were not killed by Russians, since the Russians were already gone.  They were killed by the Azov Battalion because they were ethnic Russians.


----------



## JWBooth

Why do the U.S. support Ukraine which has Nazi laws?​Dunno, the US brought boatloads of useful Nazis here after WWll.


----------



## g5000

Dissident said:


> If Pennsylvania were an independent state and made territorial claims to a region which Germany considers its own; and if at the same time Pennsylvania intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join a military alliance etc., couldn’t Germany consider Pennsylvania as a threat?
> 
> And if Germany could consider Pennsylvania as a threat, wouldn’t Germany have the right to start a military operation against Pennsylvania?
> 
> In 2003 the U.S. decided that Iraq was a threat to the U.S. and therefore the U.S. invaded Iraq and occupied it *for 8 years* – till December 2011.
> 
> In 1982 Israel decided that Lebanon was a threat to Israel and therefore Israel invaded Lebanon and occupied the Southern part of this country *for 18 years* – till May 2000.
> 
> And so on.


"She was begging to be raped, your Honor!"


----------



## Rigby5

Confederate Soldier said:


> There were a lot of Ukrainian prison guards at camps that held Russian prisoners, which no doubt pleased Ukrainians. The Russians tortured Ukrainians for years, and now it was their turn.



Wrong.
Russian never harmed the Ukraine.
The starvation of the 1930s was the whole USSR and not imposed by Russia on the Ukraine alone.
That is propaganda.
And the main point of the death camps in the Ukraine was to murder Jews, not just Russians.


----------



## Rigby5

Uncensored2008 said:


> Really?
> 
> How did Ukrainians, the tiny smattering that had survived Stalin's genocide, get from Ukraine to German occupied territory?



There was no genocide of the Ukraine by Stalin.
All of the USSR had the same starvation due to agricultural failures.
All of the Ukraine was German occupied territory during part of WWII.
You are not very up on history.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Rigby5 said:


> And isn't it true that Baghdad Bob was right that the US was lying about Iraqi WMD, the US was committing war crimes, the invasion was illegal, the US murdered half a million innocent Iraqi civilians, the US illegally tortured POWs in Bagrham, etc.?
> Are you trying to imply that Baghdad Bob was wrong in some way?
> 
> The US has always been on the wrong side, deliberately starting wars to invade or install dictators, like with Chaig Kai Shek in China, Syngman Rhee in Korea, Diem in Vietnam, Samosa in Nicaragua, Pinochet in Chile, Batista in Cuba, the Shah in Iran, etc.



Uh no.

Like you, he told utterly absurd lies that were contradicted by events in real time.


----------



## Rigby5

Uncensored2008 said:


> Thanks, I almost jumped on that one. A country that was devastated by Stalin and had 95% of their native population murdered might have been sympathetic to Hitler - IF they ever heard of him. But they were slaves under the Soviet masters and weren't going to do anything in regards to the war.



That is ridiculous.
The starvation of the 1930s was all of the USSR, not just the Ukraine, and the death toll was less than 3%.
And yes, there were Ukraine units in the German Wehrmacht.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Rigby5 said:


> There was no genocide of the Ukraine by Stalin.



I see you had your usual breakfast of paint chips in vodka this morning.



Rigby5 said:


> All of the USSR had the same starvation due to agricultural failures.







Rigby5 said:


> All of the Ukraine was German occupied territory during part of WWII.


BUT Stalin had murdered the Ukrainians so the people there were ethnic Russians.


Rigby5 said:


> You are not very up on history.


----------



## Rigby5

Richard-H said:


> According to the definition of Nazi Laws' that you promote, every country in the world including the U.S. & Russia have Nazi Laws.
> 
> Nazi-ism is a whole lot more insidious than that.



Don't see your point?
The danger of fascism comes from inequality of the wealthy elite over everyone else.
The US has it but only from abusive individuals, not from corrupt legislation.
The Ukraine and Nazi Germany had it written into its legislation, so is much worse.

Russia has the least fascist legislation of any country.
That is because they are more multi cultural than any other country.
There are still abuses, but not in their legislation.


----------



## Rigby5

g5000 said:


> Dude, I read it.  You are claiming that ethnic minorities being taught the Ukrainian language IN UKRAINE makes Ukraine a Nazi state!
> 
> This is the most idiotic reasoning possible.



Wrong.
The Ukraine is about half ethnic Russian, and all are required to learn Ukrainian, and learning Russian discriminated against.
The Ukraine is one of the most fascist countries and cultures in the world.
They go back to the abuses of the "Taras Bulba" era.
They are an awful culture.


----------



## Dissident

Richard-H said:


> Unlike you, I don't make up definitions on a whim:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nazism - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



It is obvious that the author of this article of Wikipedia sees *no difference between a Nazi state and an undemocratic state *since he writes about “disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system”, etc.

The word Nazism is derived from German Nationalsozialismus and *this phenomenon deals with ethnic origin of citizens – some ethnic groups are preferred and some others are discriminated*.

But there can be undemocratic states which aren’t Nazi states.

For example, South Korea, one of the key allies of the USA during the Cold War – it even fought on the side of the USA in the Vietnam War - was an undemocratic state at that time and its rulers had “disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system”, but South Korea wasn’t a Nazi state.
Rulers of its neighbor, the Communist North Korea, still have “disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system”, but North Korea isn’t a Nazi state too.


----------



## Rigby5

g5000 said:


> Every year after the invasion, the pseuco-conservatives on this board insisted there were WMDs in Iraq.  And whenever WMDs showed up elsewhere on the planet, they claimed the offender had gotten them from Iraq, with ZERO evidence.
> 
> Then along comes Trump, who has always insisted there were NOT any WMDs in Iraq, and who had insisted Bush should have been impeached for lying (how ironic), and suddenly all the pseudocons turned on a dime and not a word was said about WMDs in Iraq ever again.



Yes, I agree with you, but you are saying Baghdad Bob was right and the Pentagon was the liars.


----------



## Confederate Soldier

Dissident said:


> If Pennsylvania were an independent state and made territorial claims to a region which Germany considers its own; and if at the same time Pennsylvania intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join a military alliance etc., couldn’t Germany consider Pennsylvania as a threat?
> 
> And if Germany could consider Pennsylvania as a threat, wouldn’t Germany have the right to start a military operation against Pennsylvania?
> 
> In 2003 the U.S. decided that Iraq was a threat to the U.S. and therefore the U.S. invaded Iraq and occupied it *for 8 years* – till December 2011.
> 
> In 1982 Israel decided that Lebanon was a threat to Israel and therefore Israel invaded Lebanon and occupied the Southern part of this country *for 18 years* – till May 2000.
> 
> And so on.





The thing is, Ukraine isn't an independent state, it is an independent, sovereign nation. It has armed itself out of fear of the Russians doing exactly what they are doing now. They don't make territorial claims, it IS their territory. Pro-Russian seperatists claim a section of territory of their own. The fact is, it isn't.


The Iraq war was wrong, the Israeli war against Lebanon was wrong. This Russian war against Ukraine is wrong.


----------



## Confederate Soldier

Dissident said:


> It is obvious that the author of this article of Wikipedia sees *no difference between a Nazi state and an undemocratic state *since he writes about “disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system”, etc.
> 
> The word Nazism is derived from German Nationalsozialismus and *this phenomenon deals with ethnic origin of citizens – some ethnic groups are preferred and some others are discriminated*.
> 
> But there can be undemocratic states which aren’t Nazi states.
> 
> For example, South Korea, one of the key allies of the USA during the Cold War – it even fought on the side of the USA in the Vietnam War - was an undemocratic state at that time and its rulers had “disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system”, but South Korea wasn’t a Nazi state.
> Rulers of its neighbor, the Communist North Korea, still have “disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system”, but North Korea isn’t a Nazi state too.





What planet are you from?



NAZI means Nationalist Socialist, a kind of socialism where industry is nationalized, and fanatic Nationalism is the norm. It's Socialism with racial and national pride are front and center. That's not Ukraine.


----------



## Rigby5

Dissident said:


> If Pennsylvania were an independent state and made territorial claims to a region which Germany considers its own; and if at the same time Pennsylvania intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join a military alliance etc., couldn’t Germany consider Pennsylvania as a threat?
> 
> And if Germany could consider Pennsylvania as a threat, wouldn’t Germany have the right to start a military operation against Pennsylvania?
> 
> In 2003 the U.S. decided that Iraq was a threat to the U.S. and therefore the U.S. invaded Iraq and occupied it *for 8 years* – till December 2011.
> 
> In 1982 Israel decided that Lebanon was a threat to Israel and therefore Israel invaded Lebanon and occupied the Southern part of this country *for 18 years* – till May 2000.
> 
> And so on.



The US had no legal basis for claiming Iraq was a threat, and it was all deliberate lies, that makes the US criminal.
Same with Israel.
The Israeli invasion of Lebanon was not only completely criminal, but included attempted mass genocide at several Palestinian refugee camps.

If there really were a real UN with international laws, the US and Israel would no longer exist, due to their war crimes.


----------



## Rigby5

Confederate Soldier said:


> They either volunteered, or were former POW's themselves that "switched sides".
> 
> 
> When the Germans invaded Ukraine, a lot of Ukrainians saw them as liberators from the Soviets. They were happy to help get back at the Russians. SS Galicia division, (14th SS "Freiwillgen" Division) was made up of Ukrainian volunteers. They were tasked in anti-partisan affairs, and some members volunteered to be camp guards. In Poland, a number of Ukrainians were close by enough to be either pressed into service, or were given the option to "volunteer" for service. Some Ukrainian POW's chose this option. There were always a number of radicals, and these men volunteered to be sent wherever they were needed.
> 
> 
> The fact is, the majority of death camp guards were German. There were some other nationalities who volunteered, a number of them Ukrainian, but the majority were German. In POW camps, (different from death camps), the numbers of foreign volunteers were much higher. Any POW camp that held Russian prisoners was bound to have a set of Ukrainian guards in place.



Holocaust testimony disagrees with you as to how many Ukrainians death camp guards there were.

{...
Ukrainian guards outnumbered Nazi SS men 10-to-one at the Sobibor death camp, but they fell strictly under the Germans' authority, a Jewish survivor testified Wednesday at the trial of John Demjanjuk.
...}








						'Ukrainians guards took part in extermination'
					

At Demjanjuk trial, Holocaust survivor says Ukrainian guards outnumbered Nazis 10-to-1 at Sobibor camp.




					www.jpost.com
				




Every survivor who testifies says that about 80% of the death camp guards were Ukrainian volunteers.
And that the Ukrainians were the most brutal.


----------



## Rigby5

Uncensored2008 said:


> So like America where whites are inferior citizens that can be gunned down and arrested without charge for protesting?



No, individual abuses are not the point, but that the laws in the Ukraine specifically discriminate on a wholesale basis.


----------



## Rigby5

bodecea said:


> Another Republican White-winger in support of Putin the war criminal.



Putin is guilty of nothing.
The US bribed Kyiv since 2014 into committing a series of crimes against Russia that are acts of war that can not be ignored.
The war criminal is the US, for deliberately giving weapons to a state in violation of international law.


----------



## 22lcidw

g5000 said:


> So all you have is the Ukrainian language is taught to all students, comrade?  And that makes them Nazis?  BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!
> 
> Be careful.  There are a lot of Republicans who believe only English should be taught in our schools, too.  They demand English be made the official language of the US. Are they Nazis, comrade?


Our history is one language used for all. Nothing wrong with neighborhoods of one ethnic or cultural backgrounds using another language or dialect in places of their business or in casual conversations and the such. Only idiots make more reasons for eventual destruction of a nation. People that came here up to the mid 1960's know this. Many who have come her since than know this. But more and more have made a second language become more mainstream.


----------



## Richard-H

Rigby5 said:


> Don't see your point?
> The danger of fascism comes from inequality of the wealthy elite over everyone else.
> The US has it but only from abusive individuals, not from corrupt legislation.
> The Ukraine and Nazi Germany had it written into its legislation, so is much worse.
> 
> Russia has the least fascist legislation of any country.
> That is because they are more multi cultural than any other country.
> There are still abuses, but not in their legislation.



Wow, you really should research some terms before you use them.

Historically, there have been thousands of cultures where there has been "inequality of the wealthy elite over everyone else".

Yet, 'Fascism' was only conceived of by Mussolini in the 1920s. 

The U.S. had laws which clearly discriminated against non-white people for many years, yet the U.S. was not fascist or Nazi.

Please stop making up your own definitions.


----------



## Rigby5

g5000 said:


> Dude, I read it.  You are claiming that ethnic minorities being taught the Ukrainian language IN UKRAINE makes Ukraine a Nazi state!
> 
> This is the most idiotic reasoning possible.



Wrong.
They are not just being taught Ukrainian language, but forced to and prevented from using their native Russian language.
Half of the Ukraine should not even be part of the Ukraine, but should be and was part of Russia until 1955, when Khrushchev the Ukrainian, illegally gave them to the Ukraine.


----------



## Oddball

Why do the U.S. support Ukraine which has Nazi laws?​
Because Zelenski is providing them with a first-rate money laundry.

10% for the Big Guy!


----------



## Rigby5

g5000 said:


> Um...retard?  Paul Manafort did launder his money that he received for his work for a Putin-backed puppet in Ukraine.
> 
> But he's not a Dim.  He was Trump's right-hand man during the 2016 campaign.
> 
> He went to prison for it because he actually was guilty of money laundering.



Sounds not as bad as the money laundering Hunter Biden did?


----------



## Dissident

Rigby5 said:


> Don't see your point?
> ...
> The US has it but only from abusive individuals, not from corrupt legislation.
> The Ukraine and Nazi Germany had it written into its legislation, so is much worse.



Exactly that makes the difference.
*Nazi laws are the laws which divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories having different rights.*
If somebody knows any US laws, which divide US citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories having different rights, please tell the titles of these US laws and tell how they divide US citizens into these categories.

I personally don’t know such *US *laws, but I know such *Ukrainian *laws and I can tell the titles of these Ukrainian laws - the Ukrainian Law on Indigenous Peoples and Law on Secondary Education; please see the first post of the thread Aren't these Ukrainian laws the Nazi ones?.


----------



## Rigby5

Confederate Soldier said:


> The thing is, Ukraine isn't an independent state, it is an independent, sovereign nation. It has armed itself out of fear of the Russians doing exactly what they are doing now. They don't make territorial claims, it IS their territory. Pro-Russian seperatists claim a section of territory of their own. The fact is, it isn't.
> 
> 
> The Iraq war was wrong, the Israeli war against Lebanon was wrong. This Russian war against Ukraine is wrong.



Wrong.
The Ukraine only became an independent state due to treaties they signed with Gorbachev which had provisions like not harming ethnic Russians, not trying to join any alliance hostile to Russia, not accumulating western weapons, not stealing Russian oil from pipelines through the Ukraine, etc.
The Ukraine has violated ALL of the provisions of the treaties that gave it independence.
Therefore, not only is their independence forfeit, but Russia is obligated to punish these obvious crimes.

And in fact, the Crimea, Donetsk, etc. ARE not legally supposed to be part of the Ukraine.  They were given to the Ukraine in 1955 by Khrushchev the Ukrainian, but it was not legal.

The Russian was against the Ukraine, is right.


----------



## Rigby5

Confederate Soldier said:


> What planet are you from?
> 
> 
> 
> NAZI means Nationalist Socialist, a kind of socialism where industry is nationalized, and fanatic Nationalism is the norm. It's Socialism with racial and national pride are front and center. That's not Ukraine.



Totally and completely wrong.
National Socialists were completely and totally ANTI-socialist, and murdered any socialist they could.
There was ZERO nationalization of industry by the fascists.
Every single company producing weapons or goods during Hitler's reign, were completely private, capitalist, and profit motivated.


----------



## Rigby5

Richard-H said:


> Wow, you really should research some terms before you use them.
> 
> Historically, there have been thousands of cultures where there has been "inequality of the wealthy elite over everyone else".
> 
> Yet, 'Fascism' was only conceived of by Mussolini in the 1920s.
> 
> The U.S. had laws which clearly discriminated against non-white people for many years, yet the U.S. was not fascist or Nazi.
> 
> Please stop making up your own definitions.



Wrong.
First of all, fascism was defined by the ancient Romans, not Mussolini.
Even Mussolini admitted that.

The ancient Roman lictors, essentially the congressional keepers of order, carried axe handles as a badge of office.
These axe handles are known as fascia. 
They had a ceremony where were tied together in a bundle, representing strength of unity.
And that is the symbol of fascism.






The concepts themselves are evil, but deliberately discriminating legislation is evil.
Just as ancient Rome was evil, so is the Ukraine.


----------



## Richard-H

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> First of all, fascism was defined by the ancient Romans, not Mussolini.
> Even Mussolini admitted that.
> 
> The ancient Roman lictors, essentially the congressional keepers of order, carried axe handles as a badge of office.
> These axe handles are known as fascia.
> They had a ceremony where were tied together in a bundle, representing strength of unity.
> And that is the symbol of fascism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The concepts themselves are evil, but deliberately discriminating legislation is evil.
> Just as ancient Rome was evil, so is the Ukraine.



Nonsense! Mussolini created Fascism and if he decided to take some symbol from ancient Rome, that's all it was - a symbol.

It's also nonsense to say the ancient Rome was evil. Rome was by far among the most benevolent and inclusive of all ancient empires.


----------



## Rigby5

Uncensored2008 said:


> Uh no.
> 
> Like you, he told utterly absurd lies that were contradicted by events in real time.



When your country is being illegally invaded by liar, murders, and thieves, you are SUPPOSED to lie.
You don't tell them where your leaders are hiding, that they are losing, about ready to surrender, etc.
You still do not seem to get that Baghdad Bob was one of the good guys, and Bush was the main bad guy.


----------



## Oddball

Rigby5 said:


> National Socialists were completely and totally ANTI-socialist, and murdered any socialist they could.


That doesn't prove jack shit....Hitler murdered a shit-ton of Nazis on the Night of the Long Knives.....Stalin murdered any and all communist rivals.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

easyt65 said:


> Biden's Truth Commission is right out of Hitler's & Little Kim's playback, yet snowflakes fall in line with whatever Biden says, defends everything he does.
> 
> What's your point?


playback?


----------



## Rigby5

Richard-H said:


> Nonsense! Mussolini created Fascism and if he decided to take some symbol from ancient Rome, that's all it was - a symbol.
> 
> It's also nonsense to say the ancient Rome was evil. Rome was by far among the most benevolent and inclusive of all ancient empires.



I totally disagree.
Fascism has always existed.
It is just the wealthy secretly selling out the poor masses.
All colonial imperialists are fascist, including the US.
If we were not fascist, then we would have lied about the USS Maine, so we could illegally invade Cuba, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, etc.
There is nothing remotely unique about Mussolini's or Hitler fascism.
They were a coalition of the aristocracy, military, and corporations.
The only difference is the ancient Romans switch corporations for the priesthood.

And there was no society more evil than ancient Rome.
Not only did they invade and enslave most of the world, but then tortured and used those captives for sport.


----------



## g5000

Hitler had a German Shepherd.

Biden has a German Shepherd.

Biden is a NAZI!


----------



## Rigby5

Oddball said:


> That doesn't prove jack shit....Hitler murdered a shit-ton of Nazis on the Night of the Long Knives.....Stalin murdered any and all communist rivals.



Total misunderstanding of what actually happened.
The original National Socialists by Roehm was socialist.
But they could never get any traction due to the communists and real socialists being much larger numbers.
The original National Socialists were really more of a veteran's group.
But when Hitler got his big break in 1933, it was by totally giving up on the group started by Roehm.
So Hitler sold out to Hindenburg and the wealthy elite.
He disavowed socialism completely, and adopted pure Laisses faire capitalism.
Hitler was a capitalist and not a socialist.

Similarly, Stalin was a capitalist and not at all a communist.
Communism can never be centralized, and always has to be egalitarian.
Stalin created a wealthy elite, and was totally profit motivated.
That is pure capitalism.
All dictators in history are profit motivated, so then capitalist.


----------



## Dissident

Confederate Soldier said:


> They (Ukrainians) don't make territorial claims, it IS their territory.



There is something in actions of Ukrainian rulers what is absolutely incomprehensible for me.
They always declared that Crimea – where 67.9% of population are ethnic Russians - is Ukrainian territory, but *at the same time* the Ukrainian rulers passed the laws which turn ethnic Russians into citizens of the “third-rate” (please see the first post of the thread).

In addition, Ukraine intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join NATO etc.

What reaction of the Russian government and ethnic Russians in Crimea did the Ukrainian rulers expect in such a situation?


----------



## Rigby5

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> playback?



He probably meant "playbook", meaning script or strategy.


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> The Ukraine is one of the most reclusive and racist countries in the world.
> That is why 80% of the guards at Hitler's death camps in WWII were Ukrainian.
> Like Demjanjuk at Sobibor.
> The Ukraine deliberately started this war, by murdering ethnic Russians, stealing Russian oil, violating treaties, trying to put NATO nukes on Russia's border, etc.
> 
> But even more important, is that the US not only is going to lose this war, but may never recover from that loss.
> We already had a dangerous $45 trillion national debt, and Biden just gave the Ukraine another $40 billion in our most expensive weapons.
> That not only is illegal, but risks default.
> The world could easily decide to drop the US dollar as its reserve currency.
> Remember it is China who carries most of our national debt load.
> Russia has captured many of the weapons we sent, so we are giving away our secrets.
> Ultimately Russia has to win, even if that means nukes.
> And we are totally unprepared for the consequences of our own stupidity.


Wrong.

There were some Ukrainian guards but not 89% as you claim. That claim was pulled from your ass.

They did not start it, They violated no treaties. They never tried to put nukes on Russia's border. You tried those lies before and were flat out proven wrong and dishonest,

We are not fighting this war and therefore cannot lose it.  It is not illegal to arm Ukraine and in fact that 40 billion is on hold.


----------



## Rigby5

Dissident said:


> There is something in actions of Ukrainian rulers what is absolutely incomprehensible for me.
> They always declared that Crimea – where 67.9% of population are ethnic Russians - is Ukrainian territory, but *at the same time* the Ukrainian rulers passed the laws which turn ethnic Russians into citizens of the “third-rate” (please see the first post of the thread).
> 
> In addition, Ukraine intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join NATO etc.
> 
> What reaction of the Russian government and ethnic Russians in Crimea did the Ukrainian rulers expect in such a situation?



To the point where Zelensky said he wanted NATO nukes on Russia's border.
Everything Zelensky did was in direct violation of the 1992 treaties between Russia and the Ukraine.


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> And isn't it true that Baghdad Bob was right that the US was lying about Iraqi WMD, the US was committing war crimes, the invasion was illegal, the US murdered half a million innocent Iraqi civilians, the US illegally tortured POWs in Bagrham, etc.?
> Are you trying to imply that Baghdad Bob was wrong in some way?
> 
> The US has always been on the wrong side, deliberately starting wars to invade or install dictators, like with Chaig Kai Shek in China, Syngman Rhee in Korea, Diem in Vietnam, Samosa in Nicaragua, Pinochet in Chile, Batista in Cuba, the Shah in Iran, etc.


The invasion was legal and Baghdad Bobn was an idiot.

Your history is revisionist crap


----------



## g5000

Rigby5 said:


> Total misunderstanding of what actually happened.
> The original National Socialists by Roehm was socialist.
> But they could never get any traction due to the communists and real socialists being much larger numbers.
> The original National Socialists were really more of a veteran's group.
> But when Hitler got his big break in 1933, it was by totally giving up on the group started by Roehm.
> So Hitler sold out to Hindenburg and the wealthy elite.
> He disavowed socialism completely, and adopted pure Laisses faire capitalism.
> Hitler was a capitalist and not a socialist.


BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!

Clearly a post made by someone who has never read _Mein Kampf_.


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> To the point where Zelensky said he wanted NATO nukes on Russia's border.
> Everything Zelensky did was in direct violation of the 1992 treaties between Russia and the Ukraine.


He never said any such thing and he violated no treaty.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Rigby5 said:


> When your country is being illegally invaded by liar, murders, and thieves, you are SUPPOSED to lie.



So that excuses Zelensky.



Rigby5 said:


> You don't tell them where your leaders are hiding, that they are losing, about ready to surrender, etc.
> You still do not seem to get that Baghdad Bob was one of the good guys, and Bush was the main bad guy.



ROFL


----------



## g5000

Rigby5 said:


> To the point where Zelensky said he wanted NATO nukes on Russia's border.
> Everything Zelensky did was in direct violation of the 1992 treaties between Russia and the Ukraine.


Nope.  No such violation occurred.  That's a bullshit talking point you are parroting without actually looking into it for yourself.

As far as treaty violations go, KGB Putin violated the 1997 Treaty on Friendship, Cooperation, and Partnership between Ukraine and the Russian Federation when he invaded the Ukraine in 2014.


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> There was no genocide of the Ukraine by Stalin.
> All of the USSR had the same starvation due to agricultural failures.
> All of the Ukraine was German occupied territory during part of WWII.
> You are not very up on history.


Wrong.

The starvation was due to imposed starvation as a weapon and to communism's failures.


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> Putin is guilty of nothing.
> The US bribed Kyiv since 2014 into committing a series of crimes against Russia that are acts of war that can not be ignored.
> The war criminal is the US, for deliberately giving weapons to a state in violation of international law.


All lies and yes Putin is the criminal.

There is no law against us arming Ukraine.


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> The Ukraine only became an independent state due to treaties they signed with Gorbachev which had provisions like not harming ethnic Russians, not trying to join any alliance hostile to Russia, not accumulating western weapons, not stealing Russian oil from pipelines through the Ukraine, etc.
> The Ukraine has violated ALL of the provisions of the treaties that gave it independence.
> Therefore, not only is their independence forfeit, but Russia is obligated to punish these obvious crimes.
> 
> And in fact, the Crimea, Donetsk, etc. ARE not legally supposed to be part of the Ukraine.  They were given to the Ukraine in 1955 by Khrushchev the Ukrainian, but it was not legal.
> 
> The Russian was against the Ukraine, is right.


No they did not you cannot name any such treaty


----------



## Rigby5

Soupnazi630 said:


> Wrong.
> 
> There were some Ukrainian guards but not 89% as you claim. That claim was pulled from your ass.
> 
> They did not start it, They violated no treaties. They never tried to put nukes on Russia's border. You tried those lies before and were flat out proven wrong and dishonest,
> 
> We are not fighting this war and therefore cannot lose it.  It is not illegal to arm Ukraine and in fact that 40 billion is on hold.



I am quoting the Holocaust survivors, so can not likely be wrong about how most of the death camp guards were Ukrainian.









						'Ukrainians guards took part in extermination'
					

At Demjanjuk trial, Holocaust survivor says Ukrainian guards outnumbered Nazis 10-to-1 at Sobibor camp.




					www.jpost.com
				



{...
When pressed by Demjanjuk's defense attorney Ulrich Busch, Blatt conceded that the 150 or so Ukrainians who acted as guards came under the authority of the approximately 15 German SS men at the camp.
...}
That is 90% Ukrainians.

And yes, the Ukraine violated those treaties it signed with Gorbachev.
First of all they stole Russian oil from the pipelines running through the Ukraine.
Second is they murdered over 14k ethnic Russians in eastern provinces and were constantly abusive.
Third is that they had agreed to never join an alliance hostile to Russia, so trying to join NATO is an act of war.
Forth is that NATO is constantly trying to put nukes on Russia's border, such as those nukes they put in Poland for awhile.


----------



## Rigby5

Soupnazi630 said:


> All lies and yes Putin is the criminal.
> 
> There is no law against us arming Ukraine.



Yes there is illegal.
The Ukraine is in violation of treaties, with criminal acts of war.
To then arm the Ukraine makes one complicit in those crimes.


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> Total misunderstanding of what actually happened.
> The original National Socialists by Roehm was socialist.
> But they could never get any traction due to the communists and real socialists being much larger numbers.
> The original National Socialists were really more of a veteran's group.
> But when Hitler got his big break in 1933, it was by totally giving up on the group started by Roehm.
> So Hitler sold out to Hindenburg and the wealthy elite.
> He disavowed socialism completely, and adopted pure Laisses faire capitalism.
> Hitler was a capitalist and not a socialist.
> 
> Similarly, Stalin was a capitalist and not at all a communist.
> Communism can never be centralized, and always has to be egalitarian.
> Stalin created a wealthy elite, and was totally profit motivated.
> That is pure capitalism.
> All dictators in history are profit motivated, so then capitalist.


Stalin was a communist in thought and action.

Communism demands centralization and is never egalitarian. No, most dictators are looters which is not profit or capitalism


----------



## Rigby5

Soupnazi630 said:


> No they did not you cannot name any such treaty



I am not familiar with what those treaties were called, but it was openly acknowledged in 1992 that they existed, that the Ukraine had agreed to them, and that they included never trying to join NATO.


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> I am quoting the Holocaust survivors, so can not likely be wrong about how most of the death camp guards were Ukrainian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Ukrainians guards took part in extermination'
> 
> 
> At Demjanjuk trial, Holocaust survivor says Ukrainian guards outnumbered Nazis 10-to-1 at Sobibor camp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> {...
> When pressed by Demjanjuk's defense attorney Ulrich Busch, Blatt conceded that the 150 or so Ukrainians who acted as guards came under the authority of the approximately 15 German SS men at the camp.
> ...}
> That is 90% Ukrainians.
> 
> And yes, the Ukraine violated those treaties it signed with Gorbachev.
> First of all they stole Russian oil from the pipelines running through the Ukraine.
> Second is they murdered over 14k ethnic Russians in eastern provinces and were constantly abusive.
> Third is that they had agreed to never join an alliance hostile to Russia, so trying to join NATO is an act of war.
> Forth is that NATO is constantly trying to put nukes on Russia's border, such as those nukes they put in Poland for awhile.


No you are not quoting them when you claim 80%

You made that percentage up and are a bald faced liar

No they did not violate any treaties

No on3e3 has triedf to put nukes on Russians border for years and you CANNOT name any such treaty

No one put any nukes in Poland


----------



## g5000

Rigby5 said:


> There was no genocide of the Ukraine by Stalin.
> All of the USSR had the same starvation due to agricultural failures.
> All of the Ukraine was German occupied territory during part of WWII.
> You are not very up on history.


Geeeeeezus!  You must have been reading Walter Duranty's dispatches from Moscow, comrade!


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> I am not familiar with what those treaties were called, but it was openly acknowledged in 1992 that they existed, that the Ukraine had agreed to them, and that they included never trying to join NATO.


Because you made it up and are a liar.

No it was never acknowledged.


----------



## Rigby5

Soupnazi630 said:


> Stalin was a communist in thought and action.
> 
> Communism demands centralization and is never egalitarian. No, most dictators are looters which is not profit or capitalism



Stalin was a bank robber, which is capitalist.
He never had any political beliefs other than capitalism, the profit motivation.

Communism is where people pool some public resources in order to create means of production communally, cooperatively, and collectively.
Communal, cooperative, and collective, REQUIRE localization, democracy, and egalitarianism.

Look at any communist organization, like Israelis Kibbutzim, families, tribes, religious orders, etc.
All communist organizations are always local, democratic, and egalitarian.


----------



## g5000

Rigby5 said:


> I am quoting the Holocaust survivors, so can not likely be wrong about how most of the death camp guards were Ukrainian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Ukrainians guards took part in extermination'
> 
> 
> At Demjanjuk trial, Holocaust survivor says Ukrainian guards outnumbered Nazis 10-to-1 at Sobibor camp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> {...
> When pressed by Demjanjuk's defense attorney Ulrich Busch, Blatt conceded that the 150 or so Ukrainians who acted as guards came under the authority of the approximately 15 German SS men at the camp.
> ...}
> That is 90% Ukrainians.


At ONE camp.


----------



## g5000

Rigby5 said:


> I am not familiar with what those treaties were called, but it was openly acknowledged in 1992 that they existed, that the Ukraine had agreed to them, and that they included never trying to join NATO.


Openly acknowledged where? Link?

You just admitted you are nothing but a parroting useful idiot.  You have no clue what you are talking about.

You are not very up on history.


----------



## g5000

Rigby5 said:


> Stalin was a bank robber, which is capitalist.


----------



## Rigby5

g5000 said:


> Geeeeeezus!  You must have been reading Walter Duranty's dispatches from Moscow, comrade!



Russia is never profit motivated, so never invades unless absolutely necessary for political safety.
Anyone attributing this military incursion to profit motivation is likely lying.
When Russia helped China, Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, etc., it got nothing out of it.

And clearly Russia can not allow NATO on its borders, installing nukes.
Its no different than the US not allowing Soviet nukes in Cuba.


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> Stalin was a bank robber, which is capitalist.
> He never had any political beliefs other than capitalism, the profit motivation.
> 
> Communism is where people pool some public resources in order to create means of production communally, cooperatively, and collectively.
> Communal, cooperative, and collective, REQUIRE localization, democracy, and egalitarianism.
> 
> Look at any communist organization, like Israelis Kibbutzim, families, tribes, religious orders, etc.
> All communist organizations are always local, democratic, and egalitarian.


Stalin was a communists who also rob banks and no a bank robber is a thief he is not about making money.

His political beliefs were communsim to the core and described by Marx who did in fact create the ideology.

Communism is never about cooperation or communal sharing it is enbout enslavement and tyranny.

Those communal organizations were not communist.


----------



## g5000

Rigby5 said:


> Russia is never profit motivated, so never invades unless absolutely necessary for political safety.
> Anyone attributing this military incursion to profit motivation is likely lying.
> When Russia helped China, Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, etc., it got nothing out of it.
> 
> And clearly Russia can not allow NATO on its borders, installing nukes.
> Its no different than the US not allowing Soviet nukes in Cuba.


Well, now Putin is going to have NATO all up his ass.  Ukraine, Sweden, and Finland.

KGB Putin thought the West was all cucks like you and Trump.


----------



## Rigby5

g5000 said:


> Openly acknowledged where? Link?
> 
> You just admitted you are nothing but a parroting useful idiot.  You have no clue what you are talking about.
> 
> You are not very up on history.



Wrong.
This is common knowledge that Gorbachev gave the Ukraine independence in 1991, but under certain conditions.









						Betrayal Of Gorbachev Regarding NATO Explained In Detail
					

Clinton's betrayal of Gorbachov is the root cause of the current impasse. He promised not to expand NATO up to Russia's border.




					progressivehub.net
				




{...
Top leaders of the “Free World” all agreed that the United States would never enlarge NATO to reassure Gorbachev that the new Russia had nothing to fear from NATO.​By Sharon Tennison, Center for Citizen Initiatives
At last … 30 years plus, the truth comes out. There are numerous accounts by the top leaders of the Free World that they all agreed that the United States would never enlarge NATO to reassure Mikhail Gorbachev that the new Russia had no worry from NATO, definitely there would be no enlargement beyond the borders of the reunited Germany.
Below note how many of the VIP’s assured Gorbachev that he need have no fear … they were adamant that NATO would never move closer to the struggling-to-survive new Russia in the 1990s.
These facts below have been ignored, blurred and buried as Bill Clinton mercilessly began admitting one piece of the  former USSR into NATO. Today NATO surrounds Russia with the latest NATO missiles and troops aimed at Russia.
This is what Putin’s defiant resistance and threat to NATO in Ukraine is all about. He demands to have assurances that NATO will back off … or else. Russia is now strong enough militarily to make such demands. All of us could be caught in the crossfires if this situation isn’t resolved.
...}


----------



## Rigby5

g5000 said:


>



There were idealists who wanted revolution, but Stalin was not even remotely political.
He was just a bank robber out for personal profit.
That makes him a total capitalist.
Why do you think he killed off all the political idealists?


----------



## g5000

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> This is common knowledge that Gorbachev gave the Ukraine independence in 1991, but under certain conditions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Betrayal Of Gorbachev Regarding NATO Explained In Detail
> 
> 
> Clinton's betrayal of Gorbachov is the root cause of the current impasse. He promised not to expand NATO up to Russia's border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> progressivehub.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> {...
> Top leaders of the “Free World” all agreed that the United States would never enlarge NATO to reassure Gorbachev that the new Russia had nothing to fear from NATO.​By Sharon Tennison, Center for Citizen Initiatives
> At last … 30 years plus, the truth comes out. There are numerous accounts by the top leaders of the Free World that they all agreed that the United States would never enlarge NATO to reassure Mikhail Gorbachev that the new Russia had no worry from NATO, definitely there would be no enlargement beyond the borders of the reunited Germany.
> Below note how many of the VIP’s assured Gorbachev that he need have no fear … they were adamant that NATO would never move closer to the struggling-to-survive new Russia in the 1990s.
> These facts below have been ignored, blurred and buried as Bill Clinton mercilessly began admitting one piece of the  former USSR into NATO. Today NATO surrounds Russia with the latest NATO missiles and troops aimed at Russia.
> This is what Putin’s defiant resistance and threat to NATO in Ukraine is all about. He demands to have assurances that NATO will back off … or else. Russia is now strong enough militarily to make such demands. All of us could be caught in the crossfires if this situation isn’t resolved.
> ...}











						Did NATO Promise Not to Enlarge? Gorbachev Says “No”
					

Russian President Vladimir Putin has made it well known his antipathy towards NATO, claiming the Alliance took advantage of Russian weakness after the collapse of the Soviet Union in violation of promises allegedly made to Moscow by Western leaders. Steven Pifer argues that no such promises were...




					www.brookings.edu
				




_What the Germans, Americans, British and French did agree to in 1990 was that there would be no deployment of non-German NATO forces on the territory of the former GDR. I was a deputy director on the State Department’s Soviet desk at the time, and that was certainly the point of Secretary James Baker’s discussions with Gorbachev and his foreign minister, Eduard Shevardnadze. In 1990, few gave the possibility of a broader NATO enlargement to the east any serious thought.

The agreement on not deploying foreign troops on the territory of the former GDR was incorporated in Article 5 of the Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany, which was signed on September 12, 1990 by the foreign ministers of the two Germanys, the United States, Soviet Union, Britain and France. Article 5 had three provisions:_


_Until Soviet forces had completed their withdrawal from the former GDR, only German territorial defense units not integrated into NATO would be deployed in that territory._
_There would be no increase in the numbers of troops or equipment of U.S., British and French forces stationed in Berlin._
_Once Soviet forces had withdrawn, German forces assigned to NATO could be deployed in the former GDR, but foreign forces and nuclear weapons systems would not be deployed there._
_When one reads the full text of the Woerner speech cited by Putin, *it is clear that the secretary general’s comments referred to NATO forces in eastern Germany, not a broader commitment not to enlarge the Alliance.*_



Here is the Woerner speech: NATO Speech: The Atlantic Alliance and European Security


----------



## Rigby5

Soupnazi630 said:


> Stalin was a communists who also rob banks and no a bank robber is a thief he is not about making money.
> 
> His political beliefs were communsim to the core and described by Marx who did in fact create the ideology.
> 
> Communism is never about cooperation or communal sharing it is enbout enslavement and tyranny.
> 
> Those communal organizations were not communist.



Robbing banks is willing to murder others for profit.
That is absolute capitalist.

Marx was over 70 year earlier, but was an absolute egalitarian and believe in democracy.
Everything written by Marx or Engles is against enslavement and tyranny, which are entirely capitalist.


----------



## koshergrl

Rigby5 said:


> Robbing banks is willing to murder others for profit.
> That is absolute capitalist.
> 
> Marx was over 70 year earlier, but was an absolute egalitarian and believe in democracy.
> Everything written by Marx or Engles is against enslavement and tyranny, which are entirely capitalist.


Uh, no, robbing banks and murdering for profit is not "capitalist". You sound just like the fanatic commies who called anybody who isn't a commie willing to butcher the kids next door a "counter-revoluntionary". The Nazis had code words they used to marginalize anybody who objected to their human rights violations as well.


----------



## g5000

Rigby5 said:


> Everything Zelensky did was in direct violation of the 1992 treaties between Russia and the Ukraine.


There was no 1992 treaty between Russia and Ukraine.

The PLEDGE you just referred to was in 1990, and it only pledged not to put non-German NATO forces in East Germany, which no longer exists.

All caught up now on history, comrade?


----------



## Rigby5

g5000 said:


> Well, now Putin is going to have NATO all up his ass.  Ukraine, Sweden, and Finland.
> 
> KGB Putin thought the West was all cucks like you and Trump.



Putin had absolutely no choice, and if it comes to nukes, he will have to use them if we do not back down.
What we are doing not only is illegal and criminal, but completely intolerable.
In fact, NATO itself is not at all based on the rule of law, blind justice, or any decent principle, and is always totally corrupt.
Like NATO countries participating in the illegal invasion of Iraq, the illegal murder of Qaddafi, etc.


----------



## Rigby5

g5000 said:


> Did NATO Promise Not to Enlarge? Gorbachev Says “No”
> 
> 
> Russian President Vladimir Putin has made it well known his antipathy towards NATO, claiming the Alliance took advantage of Russian weakness after the collapse of the Soviet Union in violation of promises allegedly made to Moscow by Western leaders. Steven Pifer argues that no such promises were...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.brookings.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _What the Germans, Americans, British and French did agree to in 1990 was that there would be no deployment of non-German NATO forces on the territory of the former GDR. I was a deputy director on the State Department’s Soviet desk at the time, and that was certainly the point of Secretary James Baker’s discussions with Gorbachev and his foreign minister, Eduard Shevardnadze. In 1990, few gave the possibility of a broader NATO enlargement to the east any serious thought.
> 
> The agreement on not deploying foreign troops on the territory of the former GDR was incorporated in Article 5 of the Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany, which was signed on September 12, 1990 by the foreign ministers of the two Germanys, the United States, Soviet Union, Britain and France. Article 5 had three provisions:_
> 
> 
> _Until Soviet forces had completed their withdrawal from the former GDR, only German territorial defense units not integrated into NATO would be deployed in that territory._
> _There would be no increase in the numbers of troops or equipment of U.S., British and French forces stationed in Berlin._
> _Once Soviet forces had withdrawn, German forces assigned to NATO could be deployed in the former GDR, but foreign forces and nuclear weapons systems would not be deployed there._
> _When one reads the full text of the Woerner speech cited by Putin, *it is clear that the secretary general’s comments referred to NATO forces in eastern Germany, not a broader commitment not to enlarge the Alliance.*_
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the Woerner speech: NATO Speech: The Atlantic Alliance and European Security



Who cares what the Germans, Americans, British and French agreed to in 1990.  The Ukrainians agreed in 1991 to NEVER try to join any alliance hostile to Russia.


----------



## Rigby5

koshergrl said:


> Uh, no, robbing banks and murdering for profit is not "capitalist". You sound just like the fanatic commies who called anybody who isn't a commie willing to butcher the kids next door a "counter-revoluntionary". The Nazis had code words they used to marginalize anybody who objected to their human rights violations as well.



Communism by definition has to be democratic, egalitarian, and employ the rule of law for justice.
Only capitalism throws that all out in favor of profits by any means.
So robbing banks is exactly capitalist.  
The Nazis were also totally capitalist.
The closest to a point would have been if you have also pointed out Stalin was capitalist.


----------



## g5000

Rigby5 said:


> Putin had absolutely no choice, and if it comes to nukes, he will have to use them if we do not back down.


You sound just like the lefty crybabies in the 80s who said Reagan was going to get us all nuked, especially if he put MX missiles in Europe.

KGB Putin is a paper tiger and you are a spineless appeaser.


----------



## g5000

Rigby5 said:


> Who cares what the Germans, Americans, British and French agreed to in 1990.  The Ukrainians agreed in 1991 to NEVER try to join any alliance hostile to Russia.


Link?


----------



## Rigby5

g5000 said:


> There was no 1992 treaty between Russia and Ukraine.
> 
> The PLEDGE you just referred to was in 1990, and it only pledged not to put non-German NATO forces in East Germany, which no longer exists.
> 
> All caught up now on history, comrade?



Totally wrong.
Gorbachev gave the Ukraine independence through negotiations.
Before that, the Ukraine was not independent.
If the Ukraine declared independence on their own, then why did they give Russia back its nuclear weapons?


----------



## Rigby5

g5000 said:


> You sound just like the lefty crybabies in the 80s who said Reagan was going to get us all nuked, especially if he put MX missiles in Europe.
> 
> KGB Putin is a paper tiger and you are a spineless appeaser.



Kyiv is criminal, stealing oil, murdering ethnic Russians, and trying to put NATO nukes on Russia's border.


----------



## Oddball

Rigby5 said:


> Total misunderstanding of what actually happened.
> The original National Socialists by Roehm was socialist.
> But they could never get any traction due to the communists and real socialists being much larger numbers.
> The original National Socialists were really more of a veteran's group.
> But when Hitler got his big break in 1933, it was by totally giving up on the group started by Roehm.
> So Hitler sold out to Hindenburg and the wealthy elite.
> He disavowed socialism completely, and adopted pure Laisses faire capitalism.
> Hitler was a capitalist and not a socialist.
> 
> Similarly, Stalin was a capitalist and not at all a communist.
> Communism can never be centralized, and always has to be egalitarian.
> Stalin created a wealthy elite, and was totally profit motivated.
> That is pure capitalism.
> All dictators in history are profit motivated, so then capitalist.


----------



## Rigby5

Soupnazi630 said:


> The invasion was legal and Baghdad Bobn was an idiot.
> 
> Your history is revisionist crap



How was the invasion of the sovereign and innocent country of Iraq, legal?
It is only legal to invade when another nation is violating laws and rights of the US.
Iraq in no way violated any laws or rights related to the US.


----------



## g5000

Rigby5 said:


> Totally wrong.
> Gorbachev gave the Ukraine independence through negotiations.
> Before that, the Ukraine was not independent.
> If the Ukraine declared independence on their own, then why did they give Russia back its nuclear weapons?


Still waiting on that link to the 1991 treaty between Ukraine and Russia.


----------



## Rigby5

g5000 said:


> BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!
> 
> Clearly a post made by someone who has never read _Mein Kampf_.



The book "Mein Kampf" was written back when Hitler was still an idealist, unsure of himself, in 1925.
It was in 1933 Hitler was appointed Chancellor by the wealthy elite, after he had Roehm executed.


----------



## Rigby5

g5000 said:


> Still waiting on that link to the 1991 treaty between Ukraine and Russia.



Do you think all negotiation are public or something?
Russia could have prevented the Ukraine from becoming independent.


----------



## g5000

Rigby5 said:


> The book "Mein Kampf" was written back when Hitler was still an idealist, unsure of himself, in 1925.
> It was in 1933 Hitler was appointed Chancellor by the wealthy elite, after he had Roehm executed.


Still waiting on that link to the 1991 treaty between Ukraine and Russia.


----------



## Ralph Norton

Rigby5 said:


> Communism by definition has to be democratic, egalitarian, and employ the rule of law for justice.
> Only capitalism throws that all out in favor of profits by any means.
> So robbing banks is exactly capitalist.
> The Nazis were also totally capitalist.
> The closest to a point would have been if you have also pointed out Stalin was capitalist.


"Communism by definition has to be democratic, egalitarian, and employ the rule of law for justice."
You can't be that delusional?
You just can't be.
Comrade?


----------



## Uncensored2008

g5000 said:


> Well, now Putin is going to have NATO all up his ass.  Ukraine, Sweden, and Finland.
> 
> KGB Putin thought the West was all cucks like you and Trump.



Trump?

Guno, you're a TDS addled fool - even when you're on the right side of the issue, you can't help vomiting out your Nazi hate and looking like a retard.

Remember Retards, every single time Putin has invaded Ukraine, Quid Pro Biden was in the White House.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Rigby5 said:


> Robbing banks is willing to murder others for profit.
> That is absolute capitalist.
> 
> Marx was over 70 year earlier, but was an absolute egalitarian and believe in democracy.
> Everything written by Marx or Engles is against enslavement and tyranny, which are entirely capitalist.



Serious question, are you on drugs?


----------



## Uncensored2008

Rigby5 said:


> Communism by definition has to be democratic, egalitarian, and employ the rule of law for justice.
> Only capitalism throws that all out in favor of profits by any means.
> So robbing banks is exactly capitalist.
> The Nazis were also totally capitalist.
> The closest to a point would have been if you have also pointed out Stalin was capitalist.



You're totally a fucktard.

“We are socialists. We are enemies, deadly enemies, of today’s capitalist economic system with its exploitation of the economically weak, its unfair wage system, its immoral way of judging the worth of human beings in terms of their wealth and their money, instead of their responsibility and their performance, and we are determined to destroy this system whatever happens!”​
― Gregor Strasser, minister (Oberfuhrer) of economics in Nazi Germany under Adolf Hitler.


----------



## Richard-H

Rigby5 said:


> I totally disagree.
> Fascism has always existed.
> It is just the wealthy secretly selling out the poor masses.
> All colonial imperialists are fascist, including the US.
> If we were not fascist, then we would have lied about the USS Maine, so we could illegally invade Cuba, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, etc.
> There is nothing remotely unique about Mussolini's or Hitler fascism.
> They were a coalition of the aristocracy, military, and corporations.
> The only difference is the ancient Romans switch corporations for the priesthood.
> 
> And there was no society more evil than ancient Rome.
> Not only did they invade and enslave most of the world, but then tortured and used those captives for sport.



Sound like you use the word 'Fascist' to mean anybody that you don't like or any horrible thing that any nation does.

That's not what it means:









						Fascism - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Confederate Soldier

Dissident said:


> There is something in actions of Ukrainian rulers what is absolutely incomprehensible for me.
> They always declared that Crimea – where 67.9% of population are ethnic Russians - is Ukrainian territory, but *at the same time* the Ukrainian rulers passed the laws which turn ethnic Russians into citizens of the “third-rate” (please see the first post of the thread).
> 
> In addition, Ukraine intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join NATO etc.
> 
> What reaction of the Russian government and ethnic Russians in Crimea did the Ukrainian rulers expect in such a situation?




There you go with the ethnic bullshit. When America was founded, the vast majority of the population was English. Ethnic English. We armed ourselves to the teeth, and proclaimed we didn't want to fight, we wanted to separate peacefully. 


To me, it seems you're being the one who likes to racialize things with the ethnic crap you spout. 


If you're a "ethnic" Russian, living in Ukraine, you are Ukrainian citizen. If you are an ethnic German (such as myself) living in Pennsylvania, you are a Pennsylvanian American citizen. If you are ethnically South African living in Turkey, you're a fuckin' Turkish citizen now! You follow Ukrainian laws, State and Federal American laws, and Turkish laws. Your "home nation" has nothing to do with you, and does not have control over you if you are living in a different nation!



Russia has* NO RIGHT* and *NO BUSINESS *invading Ukraine, based on the racial groups living there. THAT is NAZI!


----------



## Rigby5

g5000 said:


> Still waiting on that link to the 1991 treaty between Ukraine and Russia.



As I have said several times now, the negotiations started in 1990 and continued on until 1993, when they finally finished dealing with the nukes.  There were dozens of meetings and treaties.  But they are NOT public.  The only way I know about anything they discussed is from the public press releases, which you can look up as easily as I can.


----------



## Rigby5

Uncensored2008 said:


> Serious question, are you on drugs?



Anyone who thinks there has ever been a Marxist nations has to be on drugs.


----------



## Rigby5

Richard-H said:


> Sound like you use the word 'Fascist' to mean anybody that you don't like or any horrible thing that any nation does.
> 
> That's not what it means:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fascism - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



No, the Romans liked the wealthy elite because they considered them superior people.
Just like white supremacists consider themselves to be superior.
All people who are wealthy and successful tend to fool themselves into believing they deserve it some how.
But we should know better, and we should be more egalitarian than the fascists.
Lots of naive people just focus on the nationalism of fascist, but nationalism is just a false front.
The reality is that nationalism is used to whip up the common cause with the poor, but in reality the wealthy elite do not at all care about the poor or the nation, and are just out for their own profits.


----------



## Rigby5

Confederate Soldier said:


> There you go with the ethnic bullshit. When America was founded, the vast majority of the population was English. Ethnic English. We armed ourselves to the teeth, and proclaimed we didn't want to fight, we wanted to separate peacefully.
> 
> 
> To me, it seems you're being the one who likes to racialize things with the ethnic crap you spout.
> 
> 
> If you're a "ethnic" Russian, living in Ukraine, you are Ukrainian citizen. If you are an ethnic German (such as myself) living in Pennsylvania, you are a Pennsylvanian American citizen. If you are ethnically South African living in Turkey, you're a fuckin' Turkish citizen now! You follow Ukrainian laws, State and Federal American laws, and Turkish laws. Your "home nation" has nothing to do with you, and does not have control over you if you are living in a different nation!
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has* NO RIGHT* and *NO BUSINESS *invading Ukraine, based on the racial groups living there. THAT is NAZI!



Wrong.
The ethnic Russians living in almost half of the Ukraine, should be allowed independence under the principles of local autonomy.  They were not originally part of the Ukraine, did not wish to join the Ukraine, and were forced to by Khrushchev, a Ukrainian.  The Ukraine has no right at all to any of the Russian provinces in the east.  The Russians there would likely have eventually blended in if Kyiv had not been so deliberately racist, violent, and discriminatory.
Given the crimes committed by Kyiv, it is Kyiv who no longer has any right to exist any longer, and the government has to be totally and completely changed.  None of those in power in Kyiv now should be allowed to be free for a very long time in prison.


----------



## Rigby5

Uncensored2008 said:


> You're totally a fucktard.
> 
> “We are socialists. We are enemies, deadly enemies, of today’s capitalist economic system with its exploitation of the economically weak, its unfair wage system, its immoral way of judging the worth of human beings in terms of their wealth and their money, instead of their responsibility and their performance, and we are determined to destroy this system whatever happens!”​
> ― Gregor Strasser, minister (Oberfuhrer) of economics in Nazi Germany under Adolf Hitler.



That is very ignorant.
Gregor Strasser was a member of the SA who was killed by Hitler during the "Night of the Long Knives" in 1933, and he was NEVER a minister in any government, was never under Adolf Hitler because he died before Hitler was granted any power, and died before there was a Nazi Germany.
You obviously just got that from a mindless search.  Don't always believe what you run into on the internet.

{... Gregor Strasser (also German: Straßer, see ß; 31 May 1892 – 30 June 1934) was an early prominent German Nazi official and politician who was murdered during the Night of the Long Knives in 1934*.*  ...}








						Gregor Strasser - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## g5000

Rigby5 said:


> As I have said several times now, the negotiations started in 1990 and continued on until 1993, when they finally finished dealing with the nukes.  There were dozens of meetings and treaties.  But they are NOT public.  The only way I know about anything they discussed is from the public press releases, which you can look up as easily as I can.


So...you made it up.  

Link to the public press releases.  YOU made the claim.  Now support it.


----------



## munkle

Here is who we are supporting.






Oleh Tyahnybok, leader of Svoboda. Once said: *"[You are the ones] that the Moscow-Jewish mafia ruling Ukraine fears most" *and* "They were not afraid and we should not be afraid. They took their automatic guns on their necks and went into the woods, and fought against the Muscovites, Germans, Jews and other scum who wanted to take away our Ukrainian state."



*


----------



## Confederate Soldier

munkle said:


> Here is who we are supporting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oleh Tyahnybok, leader of Svoboda. Once said: *"[You are the ones] that the Moscow-Jewish mafia ruling Ukraine fears most" *and* "They were not afraid and we should not be afraid. They took their automatic guns on their necks and went into the woods, and fought against the Muscovites, Germans, Jews and other scum who wanted to take away our Ukrainian state."
> 
> View attachment 646502*







And this is who you support. Neo-Nazi russians.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Rigby5 said:


> That is very ignorant.
> Gregor Strasser was a member of the SA who was killed by Hitler during the "Night of the Long Knives" in 1933, and he was NEVER a minister in any government, was never under Adolf Hitler because he died before Hitler was granted any power, and died before there was a Nazi Germany.
> You obviously just got that from a mindless search.  Don't always believe what you run into on the internet.
> 
> {... Gregor Strasser (also German: Straßer, see ß; 31 May 1892 – 30 June 1934) was an early prominent German Nazi official and politician who was murdered during the Night of the Long Knives in 1934*.*  ...}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gregor Strasser - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



1934 moron.

He served for about 3 years.

Learn some history. The Nazis were exactly what they said they were - socialists.  Fascism is a form of socialism, idiot.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Confederate Soldier said:


> View attachment 646509
> 
> 
> And this is who you support. Neo-Nazi russians.



There is no false dichotomy.

Both sides suck. Putin is the aggressor, so deserves the most pain. But we ALL know Zelensky is a corrupt gangster - Quid Pro's partner in crime.

I read that Putin had been poisoned and do really hope it's a painful death. That sure doesn't mean I have to support that scumbag Zelensky.


----------



## skye

jbrownson0831 said:


> The Dims support the Ukraine because this is where all the millions are laundered and they get their cuts.




BINGO!!!


----------



## skye

Uncensored2008 said:


> Let's not forget that Cocaine Mitch had his daughter on the Burisma board too. The Swamp has used Ukraine to embezzle foreign aid for decades. Hillary set the scheme up back when she was SOS under Barry da Fairy.




Yes, That's true.

 Ukraine is   (or was after is finished ) the most corrupt country on this planet.

Filth.


----------



## g5000

skye said:


> BINGO!!!











						Investigators detail Manafort money from Ukrainian corruption, Russian oligarch | CNN Politics
					

New court documents in Paul Manafort's criminal case give the fullest picture yet of what prosecutors say was the former Trump campaign chairman's financial reliance on Ukrainians suspected of corruption and a Russian oligarch, while he allegedly schemed to defraud banks and the US government.




					www.cnn.com
				




_New court documents in Paul Manafort’s criminal case give the fullest picture yet of what prosecutors say was the former Trump campaign chairman’s financial reliance on Ukrainians suspected of corruption and a Russian oligarch, while he allegedly schemed to defraud banks and the US government.

[snip]

Prosecutors have previously said Manafort engaged in a money laundering conspiracy after he hid his foreign lobbying activities. But the newly unredacted parts of the search warrants for the first time connect Manafort and his longtime deputy Rick Gates to alleged Ukrainian government corruption.

“Based on reporting from multiple sources, the FBI believes that Yanukovych’s government engages in systemic public corruption. The same sources report that corrupt government officials and their allies in the business community during Yanukovych’s presidency looted Ukraine’s public coffers of millions of dollars and funneled those assets to foreign bank accounts to hide the embezzlement,” an FBI affidavit used to obtain one of the warrants says.









						Paul Manafort: Ex-Trump campaign chief jailed for fraud
					

Paul Manafort's 47-month sentence is far shorter than what prosecutors had demanded.



					www.bbc.com
				



_
*US President Donald Trump's ex-campaign manager Paul Manafort has been given a 47-month prison sentence for fraud.*
_
He was convicted last year of hiding millions of dollars of income earned by his political consulting in Ukrain_e.


----------



## g5000

skye said:


> Yes, That's true.
> 
> Ukraine is   (or was after is finished ) the most corrupt country on this planet.
> 
> Filth.


Top 10 Most Corrupt Countries in the World (2021 Best Countries rankings):​
Iraq
Colombia
Mexico
Brazil
*Russia*
Guatemala
Kazakhstan
Lebanon
El Salvador
Azerbaijan





__





						Most Corrupt Countries 2022
					





					worldpopulationreview.com


----------



## Confederate Soldier

Uncensored2008 said:


> There is no false dichotomy.
> 
> Both sides suck. Putin is the aggressor, so deserves the most pain. But we ALL know Zelensky is a corrupt gangster - Quid Pro's partner in crime.
> 
> I read that Putin had been poisoned and do really hope it's a painful death. That sure doesn't mean I have to support that scumbag Zelensky.




Zelensky isn't perfect, but I don't think he's corrupt. As for poisoned Putin, I highly doubt it. It would be wall to wall news coverage.


----------



## skye

Toffeenut Baconsmuggler said:


> How do you expect the DemonicRats to launder our tax dollars and funnel them back to the DNC, without the help of Nazi-esque traitors and puppets???????



Oh yeah!  Second BINGO of the day!


----------



## AZrailwhale

Dissident said:


> If Pennsylvania were an independent state and made territorial claims to a region which Germany considers its own; and if at the same time Pennsylvania intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join a military alliance etc., couldn’t Germany consider Pennsylvania as a threat?
> 
> And if Germany could consider Pennsylvania as a threat, wouldn’t Germany have the right to start a military operation against Pennsylvania?
> 
> In 2003 the U.S. decided that Iraq was a threat to the U.S. and therefore the U.S. invaded Iraq and occupied it *for 8 years* – till December 2011.
> 
> In 1982 Israel decided that Lebanon was a threat to Israel and therefore Israel invaded Lebanon and occupied the Southern part of this country *for 18 years* – till May 2000.
> 
> And so on.


Actually THE UN decided Iraq was a threat to world peace after It invaded and conquered Kuwait and was preparing to conquer Saudi Arabia.  But keep on editing actual history if it makes you feel better.


----------



## AZrailwhale

Rigby5 said:


> The US had no legal basis for claiming Iraq was a threat, and it was all deliberate lies, that makes the US criminal.
> Same with Israel.
> The Israeli invasion of Lebanon was not only completely criminal, but included attempted mass genocide at several Palestinian refugee camps.
> 
> If there really were a real UN with international laws, the US and Israel would no longer exist, due to their war crimes.


So you are claiming that Iraq DIDN’T invade and conquer Kuwait?


----------



## Rigby5

g5000 said:


> So...you made it up.
> 
> Link to the public press releases.  YOU made the claim.  Now support it.



There are years of press releases.
But the most obvious were the last in 1993, when the Ukraine and Russia committed to a mutual defense pact.
Are you claiming you don't know about?  They why did the Ukraine give up the old Soviet nukes?


----------



## g5000

Rigby5 said:


> There are years of press releases.
> But the most obvious were the last in 1993, when the Ukraine and Russia committed to a mutual defense pact.
> Are you claiming you don't know about?  They why did the Ukraine give up the old Soviet nukes?


Still no links, eh?


----------



## Rigby5

AZrailwhale said:


> Actually THE UN decided Iraq was a threat to world peace after It invaded and conquered Kuwait and was preparing to conquer Saudi Arabia.  But keep on editing actual history if it makes you feel better.



Wrong.
The UN always condemned any US force against Iraq.
With the Iraq occupation of Kuwait, Saddam got permission from US ambassador Glasspie before punishing Kuwait for stealing oil and violating treaties by dumping the stolen oil below market value.

And the claim that Iraq intended to remain in Kuwait, or invade Saudi Arabia is just totally false.
The US satellite image of Iraqi tanks on the Saudi border turned out to be totally fake, thanks to honest satellite images by Russia showing no tanks or even tracks.


----------



## Rigby5

AZrailwhale said:


> So you are claiming that Iraq DIDN’T invade and conquer Kuwait?



I am saying the US ambassador Glasspie gave Iraq permission to punish Kuwait for oil theft and treaty violations.
But actually, Kuwait is populated by ethnic Iraqis, and the emir is a Bedouin whose dynasty was illegally established around the 1890s by a British invasion.


----------



## Rigby5

g5000 said:


> Still no links, eh?


As I have said a dozen times, the treaties were private, not public.


----------



## g5000

Rigby5 said:


> There are years of press releases.
> But the most obvious were the last in 1993, when the Ukraine and Russia committed to a mutual defense pact.
> Are you claiming you don't know about?  They why did the Ukraine give up the old Soviet nukes?


First, you say 1992. Then 1991.  Now...1993.

Stop making shit up.

As for why Ukraine gave up its nukes, it was part of the Budapest Memorandum of Security Assurances signed by Russia, the US, and the UK in *1994*.  That memorandum was an agreement that Russia would not attack Ukraine, Belarus, or Kazakhstan.

Your hallucination of a mutual defense pact between Russia and Ukraine is hilariously false.

In exchange for this security from attack by Russia, Ukraine gave up its nukes.

Ukraine did not ever have the codes for those nukes.  Russia did.  So when the USSR collapsed, the nukes went back to the Russian Federation in exchange for a guarantee of non-aggression by Russia toward those three countries.

Now let me show you how to do a link to back up one's claims:









						Budapest Memorandum - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				





See how easy that is?


----------



## g5000

Rigby5 said:


> As I have said a dozen times, the treaties were private, not public.


Oh, sooper sekrit treaties, eh?  

You said there were public press releases.  LINK!


----------



## g5000

Rigby5 said:


> As I have said a dozen times, the treaties were private, not public.


Those treaties were so secret, only YOU know about them.


----------



## g5000

Rigby5

You can read the Security Assurance agreement here: https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume 3007/v3007.pdf

Page 169.  Which is the 194th page of the pdf.












So...contrary to your idiotic claims, Rigby, it is Russia which has violated the treaty.  Not Ukraine.

Putin has been violating the agreement since 2014.


----------



## g5000

Oh, gosh.  I provided a link to back up my claims again!

Still waiting for a link to those press releases, Rigby.


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> This is common knowledge that Gorbachev gave the Ukraine independence in 1991, but under certain conditions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Betrayal Of Gorbachev Regarding NATO Explained In Detail
> 
> 
> Clinton's betrayal of Gorbachov is the root cause of the current impasse. He promised not to expand NATO up to Russia's border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> progressivehub.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> {...
> Top leaders of the “Free World” all agreed that the United States would never enlarge NATO to reassure Gorbachev that the new Russia had nothing to fear from NATO.​By Sharon Tennison, Center for Citizen Initiatives
> At last … 30 years plus, the truth comes out. There are numerous accounts by the top leaders of the Free World that they all agreed that the United States would never enlarge NATO to reassure Mikhail Gorbachev that the new Russia had no worry from NATO, definitely there would be no enlargement beyond the borders of the reunited Germany.
> Below note how many of the VIP’s assured Gorbachev that he need have no fear … they were adamant that NATO would never move closer to the struggling-to-survive new Russia in the 1990s.
> These facts below have been ignored, blurred and buried as Bill Clinton mercilessly began admitting one piece of the  former USSR into NATO. Today NATO surrounds Russia with the latest NATO missiles and troops aimed at Russia.
> This is what Putin’s defiant resistance and threat to NATO in Ukraine is all about. He demands to have assurances that NATO will back off … or else. Russia is now strong enough militarily to make such demands. All of us could be caught in the crossfires if this situation isn’t resolved.
> ...}


Absolutely wrong and FALSE.

None of the information you posted constitutes a treaty between Russia and Ukraine.


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> There were idealists who wanted revolution, but Stalin was not even remotely political.
> He was just a bank robber out for personal profit.
> That makes him a total capitalist.
> Why do you think he killed off all the political idealists?


Stalin was a true communist and believer in the ideology which is rooted entirely in theft.

Capoitalists make money they do not steal it.

He killed anyone who disagreed with him as the dictatorship of gthe proletariate will always do


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> How was the invasion of the sovereign and innocent country of Iraq, legal?
> It is only legal to invade when another nation is violating laws and rights of the US.
> Iraq in no way violated any laws or rights related to the US.


Wrong. There is no restriction on who the US may make war on.


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> Do you think all negotiation are public or something?
> Russia could have prevented the Ukraine from becoming independent.


Negotition  does not mean treaty. And yes ALL treaties are public. You are a proven liar and can cite no treaty whcih Ukraine broke


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> Robbing banks is willing to murder others for profit.
> That is absolute capitalist.
> 
> Marx was over 70 year earlier, but was an absolute egalitarian and believe in democracy.
> Everything written by Marx or Engles is against enslavement and tyranny, which are entirely capitalist.


No it is not. Profit does not come from theft it comes from trade.

Marx was a racist piug who hated democracy and believed in tyranny and preached tyranny.


----------



## Big Bend Texas

Dissident said:


> In the middle of April, I published an article which dealt with the question whether some Ukrainian laws are the Nazi ones (see here).
> This article was discussed on USMB (see here) and nobody could disprove that these laws are the Nazi ones, indeed.
> 
> It’s an obvious fact that, for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars - according to these laws - are “first-rate” citizens of Ukraine and have more rights; ethnic Hungarians are “second-rate” citizens and have less rights than Crimean Tatars; and ethnic Russians are “third-rate” citizens and have less rights than Hungarians.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> It’s another obvious fact, that Ukrainian rulers always make territorial claims to the Russian Crimean Peninsula, where ethnic Russians amount to 67.9% of population (see here). *
> It means that the Ukrainian rulers want to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> At the same time, Ukraine intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join NATO etc. The Russian government many times tried to persuade the Ukrainian rulers to remain nonaligned, to let Crimea stay in Russia etc. But Ukraine continued to arm itself etc.
> 
> At a certain point of time the Russian government decided that the actions of the Ukrainian rulers reached a dangerous point and very soon the situation could become even more dangerous. And then, the Russian government decided to start a military operation against Ukraine.
> 
> But the U.S. supported and support all Ukrainian actions including its claims to the Crimean Peninsula – despite of the Nazi laws in Ukraine.
> *It means that the U.S. support, inter alia, the Ukrainian plan to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> The question naturally arises – Why do the U.S. support such a country as Ukraine?
> 
> My opinion is that it doesn’t matter for the U.S. what kind of a country Ukraine is. The U.S. want to reduce Russian influence in Europe; the U.S. want to sell their liquefied gas in Europe etc.
> Therefore, in my opinion, the U.S. are ready to support even Nazis if these Nazis are hostile towards Russia.
> 
> Source


We teach English in the US as the primary language because it is our national language.

Does that make us all Nazis?


----------



## Big Bend Texas

Rigby5 said:


> Do you think all negotiation are public or something?
> Russia could have prevented the Ukraine from becoming independent.


How exactly?  They were already a separate country even under Soviet Rule.


----------



## Big Bend Texas

Rigby5 said:


> Robbing banks is willing to murder others for profit.
> That is absolute capitalist.


No, that is robbery which is a crime.

Capitalism is a voluntary exchange of goods or services for an agreed upon price without or at least with minimal gov't involvement.


----------



## Big Bend Texas

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> This is common knowledge that Gorbachev gave the Ukraine independence in 1991, but under certain conditions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Betrayal Of Gorbachev Regarding NATO Explained In Detail
> 
> 
> Clinton's betrayal of Gorbachov is the root cause of the current impasse. He promised not to expand NATO up to Russia's border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> progressivehub.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> {...
> Top leaders of the “Free World” all agreed that the United States would never enlarge NATO to reassure Gorbachev that the new Russia had nothing to fear from NATO.​By Sharon Tennison, Center for Citizen Initiatives
> At last … 30 years plus, the truth comes out. There are numerous accounts by the top leaders of the Free World that they all agreed that the United States would never enlarge NATO to reassure Mikhail Gorbachev that the new Russia had no worry from NATO, definitely there would be no enlargement beyond the borders of the reunited Germany.
> Below note how many of the VIP’s assured Gorbachev that he need have no fear … they were adamant that NATO would never move closer to the struggling-to-survive new Russia in the 1990s.
> These facts below have been ignored, blurred and buried as Bill Clinton mercilessly began admitting one piece of the  former USSR into NATO. Today NATO surrounds Russia with the latest NATO missiles and troops aimed at Russia.
> This is what Putin’s defiant resistance and threat to NATO in Ukraine is all about. He demands to have assurances that NATO will back off … or else. Russia is now strong enough militarily to make such demands. All of us could be caught in the crossfires if this situation isn’t resolved.
> ...}


This is of course a lie, there was no such language in the final document they all agreed to and signed.


----------



## Dissident

Confederate Soldier said:


> Russia has* NO RIGHT* and *NO BUSINESS *invading Ukraine, based on the racial groups living there.


You make me repeat the same things again and again 
Please read below.


> The Russian military operation in Ukraine is a necessary action because the Ukrainian rulers always make territorial claims to the Russian Crimean Peninsula where ethnic Russians amount to 67.9% of population.
> At the same time, Ukraine intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join NATO etc. The Russian government many times tried to persuade the Ukrainian rulers to remain nonaligned, to let Crimea stay in Russia etc. But Ukraine continued to arm itself etc.
> At a certain point of time the Russian government decided that the actions of the Ukrainian rulers reached a dangerous point and very soon the situation could become even more dangerous. And then, the Russian government decided to start a military operation against Ukraine.





Big Bend Texas said:


> We teach English in the US as the primary language because it is our national language.
> 
> Does that make us all Nazis?


You make me repeat the same things again and again 

The thread Aren't these Ukrainian laws the Nazi ones? doesn't deal with the problem of teaching a national language in Ukraine – their national language is the Ukrainian.

Under the above mentioned Ukrainian laws, *different ethnic groups have different rights in Ukraine* - for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars have more rights to use their native language – the Tatar language – during the education;  ethnic Hungarians have less rights than Crimean Tatars to use their native language – the Hungarian – during the education; and  ethnic Russians have less rights to use their native language – the Russian - than Hungarians.

*Aren’t the laws, which divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories having different rights, the Nazi laws?*


----------



## Confederate Soldier

Dissident said:


> You make me repeat the same things again and again
> Please read below.
> 
> 
> 
> You make me repeat the same things again and again
> 
> The thread Aren't these Ukrainian laws the Nazi ones? doesn't deal with the problem of teaching a national language in Ukraine – their national language is the Ukrainian.
> 
> Under the above mentioned Ukrainian laws, *different ethnic groups have different rights in Ukraine* - for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars have more rights to use their native language – the Tatar language – during the education;  ethnic Hungarians have less rights than Crimean Tatars to use their native language – the Hungarian – during the education; and  ethnic Russians have less rights to use their native language – the Russian - than Hungarians.
> 
> *Aren’t the laws, which divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories having different rights, the Nazi laws?*






Those are not territorial claims, they ARE Ukrainian. And you bring up race again, nazi.


----------



## ESay

Dissident said:


> *Aren’t the laws, which divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories having different rights, the Nazi laws?*


The same exists in the US. Ever heard of affirmative action? The US is also a Nazi nation, obviously.


----------



## Richard-H

Rigby5 said:


> No, the Romans liked the wealthy elite because they considered them superior people.
> Just like white supremacists consider themselves to be superior.
> All people who are wealthy and successful tend to fool themselves into believing they deserve it some how.
> But we should know better, and we should be more egalitarian than the fascists.
> Lots of naive people just focus on the nationalism of fascist, but nationalism is just a false front.
> The reality is that nationalism is used to whip up the common cause with the poor, but in reality the wealthy elite do not at all care about the poor or the nation, and are just out for their own profits.



According to your definition (and ONLY your definition) every country in the world (except for your precious Russia) has been and is a 'Nazi' country.

No country has ever achieved real or even legal egalitarianism.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Dissident said:


> You make me repeat the same things again and again
> Please read below.
> 
> 
> 
> You make me repeat the same things again and again
> 
> The thread Aren't these Ukrainian laws the Nazi ones? doesn't deal with the problem of teaching a national language in Ukraine – their national language is the Ukrainian.
> 
> *Under the above mentioned Ukrainian laws, different ethnic groups have different rights in Ukraine - for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars have more rights to use their native language – the Tatar language – during the education;  ethnic Hungarians have less rights than Crimean Tatars to use their native language – the Hungarian – during the education; and  ethnic Russians have less rights to use their native language – the Russian - than Hungarians.
> 
> Aren’t the laws, which divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories having different rights, the Nazi laws?*



Got any specifics or  are  pissing down our backs and telling us it is raining?

Ukraine is really Nazi with a Jewish President and a Jewish Defense Minister.

Thank you for you contribution, comrade!


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> As I have said a dozen times, the treaties were private, not public.


No such thing.

No treaties no violation


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> I am saying the US ambassador Glasspie gave Iraq permission to punish Kuwait for oil theft and treaty violations.
> But actually, Kuwait is populated by ethnic Iraqis, and the emir is a Bedouin whose dynasty was illegally established around the 1890s by a British invasion.


No such permission was ever given.


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> Anyone who thinks there has ever been a Marxist nations has to be on drugs.


Wrong anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool and a liar.


----------



## Dissident

ESay said:


> The same (legislation) exists in the US. Ever heard of affirmative action? The US is also a Nazi nation, obviously.


If you know any US laws, which divide US citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, please tell the titles of these US laws and tell how they divide US citizens into these categories.

I personally don’t know such *US *laws, but I know such *Ukrainian *laws and I can tell the titles of these Ukrainian laws - the Ukrainian Law on Indigenous Peoples and Law on Secondary Education; please read the first post of the thread Aren't these Ukrainian laws the Nazi ones?


----------



## Dissident

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Got any specifics or  are  pissing down our backs and telling us it is raining?
> 
> Ukraine is really Nazi with a Jewish President and a Jewish Defense Minister.
> 
> Thank you for you contribution, comrade!


It doesn’t matter for me that the Ukrainian president is a half-Jew; it matters for me what kind of laws Ukraine has.

And please answer the question below:
Aren’t the laws, which divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, the Nazi laws?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Dissident said:


> It doesn’t matter for me that the Ukrainian president is a half-Jew; it matters for me what kind of laws Ukraine has.
> 
> And please answer the question below:
> Aren’t the laws, which divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, the Nazi laws?


What's a half Jew?  Is he Jewish from the waist up or waist down? Left side or right side?

Do we provide instruction in Swahili for immigrants from Africa?  No.  Is that Nazism?  Again, no.

Bot!


----------



## Sunsettommy

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> What's a half Jew?  Is he Jewish from the waist up or waist down? Left side or right side?
> 
> Do we provide instruction in Swahili for immigrants from Africa?  No.  Is that Nazism?  Again, no.
> 
> Bot!



Wife be Jewish and Husband be a gentile is what he probably meant?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Sunsettommy said:


> Wife be Jewish and Husband be a gentile is what he probably meant?


It's like being pregnant! You either are a Jew or you are not. His entire family is Jewish.


----------



## Dissident

Confederate Soldier said:


> Those are not territorial claims, they (the Crimean Peninsula and its inhabitants) ARE Ukrainian.


To put it more exactly, the Crimean Peninsula was Ukrainian for 60 years after it had been passed by the Soviet government from the Russian Soviet Socialist Republic to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic in 1954; although in the 1950s *ethnic Russians amounted to 71.4% of Crimean population* and ethnic Ukrainian only to 22.3%; please see Demographics of Crimea.
Before that, for 171 years – after Crimea had lost its independence in 1783 – it wasn’t Ukrainian, e.g. it wasn’t a part of Ukrainian Hetmanate in the 18th century; at first, Crimea was a part of the Russian Empire and then a part of the Russian Soviet Socialist Republic – till 1954.

And please answer the question below, too
Aren’t the laws, which divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, the Nazi laws?


----------



## Dissident

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> "Aren’t the laws, which divide *citizens *according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, the Nazi laws?"
> 
> 
> 
> Do we provide instruction in Swahili for *immigrants *from Africa?  No.  Is that Nazism?  Again, no.
Click to expand...


You haven’t answered my question -  I can change its color.
Aren’t the laws, which divide *CITIZENS *according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, the Nazi laws?


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

Dissident said:


> In the middle of April, I published an article which dealt with the question whether some Ukrainian laws are the Nazi ones (see here).
> This article was discussed on USMB (see here) and nobody could disprove that these laws are the Nazi ones, indeed.
> 
> It’s an obvious fact that, for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars - according to these laws - are “first-rate” citizens of Ukraine and have more rights; ethnic Hungarians are “second-rate” citizens and have less rights than Crimean Tatars; and ethnic Russians are “third-rate” citizens and have less rights than Hungarians.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> It’s another obvious fact, that Ukrainian rulers always make territorial claims to the Russian Crimean Peninsula, where ethnic Russians amount to 67.9% of population (see here). *
> It means that the Ukrainian rulers want to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> At the same time, Ukraine intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join NATO etc. The Russian government many times tried to persuade the Ukrainian rulers to remain nonaligned, to let Crimea stay in Russia etc. But Ukraine continued to arm itself etc.
> 
> At a certain point of time the Russian government decided that the actions of the Ukrainian rulers reached a dangerous point and very soon the situation could become even more dangerous. And then, the Russian government decided to start a military operation against Ukraine.
> 
> But the U.S. supported and support all Ukrainian actions including its claims to the Crimean Peninsula – despite of the Nazi laws in Ukraine.
> *It means that the U.S. support, inter alia, the Ukrainian plan to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> The question naturally arises – Why do the U.S. support such a country as Ukraine?
> 
> My opinion is that it doesn’t matter for the U.S. what kind of a country Ukraine is. The U.S. want to reduce Russian influence in Europe; the U.S. want to sell their liquefied gas in Europe etc.
> Therefore, in my opinion, the U.S. are ready to support even Nazis if these Nazis are hostile towards Russia.
> 
> Source


Another rightwing troll for Putin.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Dissident said:


> To put it more exactly, the Crimean Peninsula was Ukrainian for 60 years after it had been passed by the Soviet government from the Russian Soviet Socialist Republic to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic in 1954; although in the 1950s *ethnic Russians amounted to 71.4% of Crimean population* and ethnic Ukrainian only to 22.3%; please see Demographics of Crimea.
> Before that, for 171 years – after Crimea had lost its independence in 1783 – it wasn’t Ukrainian, e.g. it wasn’t a part of Ukrainian Hetmanate in the 18th century; at first, Crimea was a part of the Russian Empire and then a part of the Russian Soviet Socialist Republic – till 1954.
> 
> *And please answer the question below, too*
> *Aren’t the laws, which divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, the Nazi laws?*



I guess you have no clue what Nazism is!  Russia discriminates against anyone who is not a Great Russian, but you knew that, didn't you?  Are the Russians Nazis?

We don't teach Swahili for African immigrants.  We don't teach Arabic for Muslim immigrants from Arab countries or nonArab countries either.  We don't teach Spanish to Puerto Ricans. We don't teach Spanish only classes to people immigrating legally or illegally from Mexico?  We don't teach Haitian immigrants Creole.

I guess we are Nazis one and all!


----------



## Dissident

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> I guess you ...


You haven’t still answered my question.
Should I change its color again?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Dissident said:


> You haven’t still answered my question.
> Should I change its color again?


That English to Russian translation software you use must be on the fritz!

I answered you damned stupid question.  No, it is not Nazi any more than the Russians, the US, and hundreds of other countries are Nazis.

Take that is shove it up your bot data port!


----------



## Dissident

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> No, it is not Nazi...


OK, I have understood your answer.

The laws, which divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, *aren’t Nazi laws, in your opinion*.

And I have two further questions to you:

How would *you personally* call such laws then?  Are these laws, for example, democratic, in your opinion?

And the second question:
Would you like to be a citizen of a country where citizens according to their ethnic origin are divided by laws into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights? Especially, if *you personally* only because of your ethnic origin would have less rights than other citizens?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Dissident said:


> OK, I have understood your answer.
> 
> The laws, which divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, *aren’t Nazi laws, in your opinion*.
> 
> And I have two further questions to you:
> 
> How would *you personally* call such laws then?  Are these laws, for example, democratic, in your opinion?
> 
> And the second question:
> *Would you like to be a citizen of a country where citizens according to their ethnic origin are divided by laws into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights? *Especially, if *you personally* only because of your ethnic origin would have less rights than other citizens?


They do not.  Therefore, your question is ridiculous!  Rights are easily defined.  Being a Russki, you never had any so do not understand them.


----------



## Confederate Soldier

Dissident said:


> To put it more exactly, the Crimean Peninsula was Ukrainian for 60 years after it had been passed by the Soviet government from the Russian Soviet Socialist Republic to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic in 1954; although in the 1950s *ethnic Russians amounted to 71.4% of Crimean population* and ethnic Ukrainian only to 22.3%; please see Demographics of Crimea.
> Before that, for 171 years – after Crimea had lost its independence in 1783 – it wasn’t Ukrainian, e.g. it wasn’t a part of Ukrainian Hetmanate in the 18th century; at first, Crimea was a part of the Russian Empire and then a part of the Russian Soviet Socialist Republic – till 1954.
> 
> And please answer the question below, too
> Aren’t the laws, which divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, the Nazi laws?





Why do you keep bringing up ethnic racial backgrounds, you nazi? 


You have not named the laws and what those laws do, you just said "there are laws".


----------



## Dissident

Confederate Soldier said:


> You have not named the laws and what those laws do, you just said "there are laws".


It’s untrue – please read the first post in the thread Aren't these Ukrainian laws the Nazi ones?



Confederate Soldier said:


> Why do you keep bringing up ethnic racial backgrounds, you nazi?


When I say about ethnic origin of the majority of Crimean population, it doesn’t make me a Nazi. 
And I say about that because I believe that this information is important to understand causes of the dispute over Crimea between Russia and Ukraine.

And I have answered your question, but you had ignored mine – please see below.


> And please answer the question below, too
> Aren’t the laws, which divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, the Nazi laws?


----------



## Dissident

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Being a Russki, you never ,,,


You have ignored my question, too - please see below.


> The laws, which divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, *aren’t Nazi laws, in your opinion*.
> ...
> How would *you personally* call such laws then? Are these laws, for example, democratic, in your opinion?



You have also ignored my second question - please see below.


> And the second question:
> Would you like to be a citizen of a country where citizens according to their ethnic origin are divided by laws into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights? Especially, if *you personally* - only because of your ethnic origin - would have less rights than other citizens?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Dissident said:


> You have ignored my question, too - please see below.
> 
> 
> You have also ignored my second question - please see below.


I answered both of your questions, but you refuse to accept my answer because you are asking stupid questions.


----------



## Confederate Soldier

Dissident said:


> It’s untrue – please read the first post in the thread Aren't these Ukrainian laws the Nazi ones?
> 
> 
> When I say about ethnic origin of the majority of Crimean population, it doesn’t make me a Nazi.
> And I say about that because I believe that this information is important to understand causes of the dispute over Crimea between Russia and Ukraine.
> 
> And I have answered your question, but you had ignored mine – please see below.




Your concern for an ethnic group of people that live in Ukrainian borders does make you a nazi, because those laws you say exist, don't.

Adolf Hitler said that ethnic Germans were being killed in Poland. They weren't. It was a lie and an excuse just to invade.


----------



## Dissident

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> I answered both of your questions...


It’s a lie. You didn’t answer my questions.

You said that the Ukrainian laws, which are discussed, aren’t Nazi laws. But you refused to answer both of my further questions, i.e. the question “How would you personally call such laws then?” and the question “Would you personally like to be a citizen of a country which has such laws?”; see here.

It makes no sense to discuss anything with a person who - like you – lies and refuses to answer questions relating to object of discussion.


----------



## Dissident

Confederate Soldier said:


> ...make you a nazi...


At first, you lied that I allegedly had not named the Ukrainian laws, which are discussed. Then you refused to answer the question, whether these Ukrainian laws are Nazi ones; see here.

It makes no sense to discuss anything with a person who - like you – lies and refuses to answer questions relating to object of discussion.


----------



## Dissident

Since my opponents have failed to disprove that Ukraine has Nazi laws, let’s return to the question from the title of this thread, i.e. to the question – *WHY do the U.S. support such a country as Ukraine which has Nazi laws?*

There is an answer in the first post of this thread. 
It doesn’t matter for the U.S. what kind of a country Ukraine is. The U.S. want to reduce Russian influence in Europe; the U.S. want to sell their liquefied gas in Europe etc.
Therefore the U.S. are ready to support any country if this country is hostile towards Russia.

Another answer to this question was given in the second post of this thread - The Dims support the Ukraine because this is where all the millions are laundered and they get their cuts.

*Have you other answers to the question from the title of this thread?*


----------



## Confederate Soldier

Dissident said:


> At first, you lied that I allegedly had not named the Ukrainian laws, which are discussed. Then you refused to answer the question, whether these Ukrainian laws are Nazi ones; see here.
> 
> It makes no sense to discuss anything with a person who - like you – lies and refuses to answer questions relating to object of discussion.




YOU SAY there are Nazi laws, but you do not GIVE the names of the laws, and HOW they target racial minorities. you just say "There are laws". WHAT LAWS!?


----------



## kaz

Dissident said:


> In the middle of April, I published an article which dealt with the question whether some Ukrainian laws are the Nazi ones (see here).
> This article was discussed on USMB (see here) and nobody could disprove that these laws are the Nazi ones, indeed.
> 
> It’s an obvious fact that, for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars - according to these laws - are “first-rate” citizens of Ukraine and have more rights; ethnic Hungarians are “second-rate” citizens and have less rights than Crimean Tatars; and ethnic Russians are “third-rate” citizens and have less rights than Hungarians.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> It’s another obvious fact, that Ukrainian rulers always make territorial claims to the Russian Crimean Peninsula, where ethnic Russians amount to 67.9% of population (see here). *
> It means that the Ukrainian rulers want to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> At the same time, Ukraine intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join NATO etc. The Russian government many times tried to persuade the Ukrainian rulers to remain nonaligned, to let Crimea stay in Russia etc. But Ukraine continued to arm itself etc.
> 
> At a certain point of time the Russian government decided that the actions of the Ukrainian rulers reached a dangerous point and very soon the situation could become even more dangerous. And then, the Russian government decided to start a military operation against Ukraine.
> 
> But the U.S. supported and support all Ukrainian actions including its claims to the Crimean Peninsula – despite of the Nazi laws in Ukraine.
> *It means that the U.S. support, inter alia, the Ukrainian plan to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> The question naturally arises – Why do the U.S. support such a country as Ukraine?
> 
> My opinion is that it doesn’t matter for the U.S. what kind of a country Ukraine is. The U.S. want to reduce Russian influence in Europe; the U.S. want to sell their liquefied gas in Europe etc.
> Therefore, in my opinion, the U.S. are ready to support even Nazis if these Nazis are hostile towards Russia.
> 
> Source



Why do you didn't learn English before you's came here?


----------



## Rigby5

g5000 said:


> First, you say 1992. Then 1991.  Now...1993.
> 
> Stop making shit up.
> 
> As for why Ukraine gave up its nukes, it was part of the Budapest Memorandum of Security Assurances signed by Russia, the US, and the UK in *1994*.  That memorandum was an agreement that Russia would not attack Ukraine, Belarus, or Kazakhstan.
> 
> Your hallucination of a mutual defense pact between Russia and Ukraine is hilariously false.
> 
> In exchange for this security from attack by Russia, Ukraine gave up its nukes.
> 
> Ukraine did not ever have the codes for those nukes.  Russia did.  So when the USSR collapsed, the nukes went back to the Russian Federation in exchange for a guarantee of non-aggression by Russia toward those three countries.
> 
> Now let me show you how to do a link to back up one's claims:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Budapest Memorandum - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See how easy that is?



The treaties between the Ukraine and Russia started in 1991, but ended more like 1994, after the old Soviet nukes were resolved.
Sure Russia promised to not invade the Ukraine, but ONLY if the Ukraine followed its treaty obligations, which demanded the Ukraine not try to join any coalition hostile to Russia.

Since Zelensky is constantly asking to join NATO, that void any and all treaties between Russia and the Ukraine.
But a state of war was also created by the Ukraine murdering ethic Russians, stealing Russian oil from Russian pipelines, and other criminal act.

And throwing up a link does NOT at all "back up any claims".
You have to quote the relevant section, and give your reasons why you believe it backs up your claims.
And if you had done this properly, it would have been obvious to you that it is the Ukraine that caused the invasion.

{...
The memorandum prohibited the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan, "except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations." As a result of other agreements and the memorandum, between 1993 and 1996, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons.[2][3]
...}

The quoted agreement has exceptions for self-defense or what the UN Charter allows.  And since Zelensky stole oil, murdered Russian civilians, and tried to put NATO nukes on Russia's border, then Russia not only was free to attack, but obligated to.


----------



## Rigby5

g5000 said:


> Rigby5
> 
> You can read the Security Assurance agreement here: https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume 3007/v3007.pdf
> 
> Page 169.  Which is the 194th page of the pdf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So...contrary to your idiotic claims, Rigby, it is Russia which has violated the treaty.  Not Ukraine.
> 
> Putin has been violating the agreement since 2014.



Wrong.
Point 2 clearly says that Russia is free to use their weapons agains the Ukraine if necessary "in self defense", as the Ukraine starts to stockpile US weapons, try to join NATO, or try to put US nukes on Russia's border.
"Or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations:.

You should consider reading something before trying to use it to back up a claim.

And you still have it all wrong, and that the 1994 treaty is only concerned with the old Soviet nukes, NOT with how the Ukraine was originally granted independence by Gorbachev.


----------



## Rigby5

Soupnazi630 said:


> Absolutely wrong and FALSE.
> 
> None of the information you posted constitutes a treaty between Russia and Ukraine.



Did NATO promise Gorbachev they would not advance on old Soviet states.
Since NATO is trying to include the Ukraine as a member, that is a violation of the promises to Gorbachev.


----------



## Big Bend Texas

Rigby5 said:


> Did NATO promise Gorbachev they would not advance on old Soviet states.
> Since NATO is trying to include the Ukraine as a member, that is a violation of the promises to Gorbachev.


NATO did not Advance on any state much less former Soviet States.

Nothing in the agreement prevent the former states from Joining NATO if they chose to in the future.


----------



## Rigby5

Soupnazi630 said:


> Stalin was a true communist and believer in the ideology which is rooted entirely in theft.
> 
> Capoitalists make money they do not steal it.
> 
> He killed anyone who disagreed with him as the dictatorship of gthe proletariate will always do



Nonsense.  If Stalin was any sort of politico, he would not have had Trotsky murdered, or any of the real communists.
Communism is the means under which all families live, so can't be theft.
A dictator can't be a member of the proletariat,
That is a linguistic contradiction.


----------



## Toro

Dissident said:


> In the middle of April, I published an article which dealt with the question whether some Ukrainian laws are the Nazi ones (see here).
> This article was discussed on USMB (see here) and nobody could disprove that these laws are the Nazi ones, indeed.
> 
> It’s an obvious fact that, for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars - according to these laws - are “first-rate” citizens of Ukraine and have more rights; ethnic Hungarians are “second-rate” citizens and have less rights than Crimean Tatars; and ethnic Russians are “third-rate” citizens and have less rights than Hungarians.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> It’s another obvious fact, that Ukrainian rulers always make territorial claims to the Russian Crimean Peninsula, where ethnic Russians amount to 67.9% of population (see here). *
> It means that the Ukrainian rulers want to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> At the same time, Ukraine intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join NATO etc. The Russian government many times tried to persuade the Ukrainian rulers to remain nonaligned, to let Crimea stay in Russia etc. But Ukraine continued to arm itself etc.
> 
> At a certain point of time the Russian government decided that the actions of the Ukrainian rulers reached a dangerous point and very soon the situation could become even more dangerous. And then, the Russian government decided to start a military operation against Ukraine.
> 
> But the U.S. supported and support all Ukrainian actions including its claims to the Crimean Peninsula – despite of the Nazi laws in Ukraine.
> *It means that the U.S. support, inter alia, the Ukrainian plan to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> The question naturally arises – Why do the U.S. support such a country as Ukraine?
> 
> My opinion is that it doesn’t matter for the U.S. what kind of a country Ukraine is. The U.S. want to reduce Russian influence in Europe; the U.S. want to sell their liquefied gas in Europe etc.
> Therefore, in my opinion, the U.S. are ready to support even Nazis if these Nazis are hostile towards Russia.
> 
> Source



Russian troll


----------



## Rigby5

Soupnazi630 said:


> Wrong. There is no restriction on who the US may make war on.



Yes there is.
When the US created the UN in 1945, Congress ratified the UN charter in to US law, and it makes all war illegal unless attacked first, or if the UN votes for it.


----------



## Rigby5

Soupnazi630 said:


> Negotition  does not mean treaty. And yes ALL treaties are public. You are a proven liar and can cite no treaty whcih Ukraine broke



No, most treaties are not public.
And while it is pretty obvious the Ukraine and Russia agreed to term, a treaty is not necessary.
Just like the US used force against Cuban missiles, Russia is also well within its self defense rights, to attack a belligerent Ukraine.


----------



## Big Bend Texas

Rigby5 said:


> Yes there is.
> When the US created the UN in 1945, Congress ratified the UN charter in to US law, and it makes all war illegal unless attacked first, or if the UN votes for it.


Well that certainly isn't true and the UN has no power over the decisions of the Commander in Chief of US forces.


----------



## Big Bend Texas

Rigby5 said:


> No, most treaties are not public.
> And while it is pretty obvious the Ukraine and Russia agreed to term, a treaty is not necessary.
> Just like the US used force against Cuban missiles, Russia is also well within its self defense rights, to attack a belligerent Ukraine.


No treaty is at all valid in the US unless it has been openly discussed, debated, and ratified by the Senate.


----------



## Rigby5

Soupnazi630 said:


> No it is not. Profit does not come from theft it comes from trade.
> 
> Marx was a racist piug who hated democracy and believed in tyranny and preached tyranny.



Wrong.
Profit comes from having currency.
And stealing it is a time honored tradition among imperial colonialists like the US.

And your diatribe against Marx is silly.
He was a proponent of the French Revolution to democracy from the monarchy.
Marx never preached tyranny, but actually Libertarian Anarchy, where the "state would whither away".
He wanted no coercive government at all.
An idealist, but not racist or tyrant.
You are just totally wrong.


----------



## Rigby5

Big Bend Texas said:


> We teach English in the US as the primary language because it is our national language.
> 
> Does that make us all Nazis?



Teaching a language does not make Nazis, but having varying levels of rights based on what language is native to you, IS NAZI.


----------



## Rigby5

Big Bend Texas said:


> How exactly?  They were already a separate country even under Soviet Rule.



Wrong.
The USSR was supreme over the individual members, who were states, not separate countries.
The US states used to be separate countries, until they joined the United States federation.
Then they no longer were separate countries.
They could  no longer declare war, negotiate treaties, etc.
Same with the Ukraine.
It lost it independence when it joined the USSR.


----------



## Rigby5

Big Bend Texas said:


> No, that is robbery which is a crime.
> 
> Capitalism is a voluntary exchange of goods or services for an agreed upon price without or at least with minimal gov't involvement.



Capitalism makes no distinction as to how you make a profit.
Slavery in the US is proof of that.
The world has a long history of crimes for profit over the last 10,000 years.
Capitalism not only makes no such distinction, but the US would not even exist if not for the crime of stealing the country from the natives.


----------



## Rigby5

Big Bend Texas said:


> This is of course a lie, there was no such language in the final document they all agreed to and signed.



Wrong.
Why would Gorbachev have given the Ukraine independence without any sort of security arrangement?


----------



## Big Bend Texas

Rigby5 said:


> Capitalism makes no distinction as to how you make a profit.
> Slavery in the US is proof of that.
> The world has a long history of crimes for profit over the last 10,000 years.
> Capitalism not only makes no such distinction, but the US would not even exist if not for the crime of stealing the country from the natives.


You continue simply making things up.

Capitalism is a voluntary exchange of money, goods, and services, theft is not capitalism.


----------



## Big Bend Texas

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> Why would Gorbachev have given the Ukraine independence without any sort of security arrangement?


The only "Security Arrangement" was relative to Ukraine Giving up it's nukes.

There was nothing in the agreement preventing the former Soviet States from joining NATO nor can you find it in the agreement.


----------



## Rigby5

Big Bend Texas said:


> NATO did not Advance on any state much less former Soviet States.
> 
> Nothing in the agreement prevent the former states from Joining NATO if they chose to in the future.



Wrong.
The Ukraine was specifically prohibited from joining alliances hostile to Russia.


----------



## AZrailwhale

Rigby5 said:


> I am not familiar with what those treaties were called, but it was openly acknowledged in 1992 that they existed, that the Ukraine had agreed to them, and that they included never trying to join NATO.


Once Russia violated the treaties by invading Ukraine to seize Crimea, they were null and void.


----------



## Big Bend Texas

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> The Ukraine was specifically prohibited from joining alliances hostile to Russia.


You are still fabricating, No language in the agreements prevented any of the former Soviet Bloc nations from Joining NATO.

NATO is not hostile to Russia and never has been, it's a purely defensive pact. 

As long as Russia doesn't start attacking it's neighbors she has absolutely nothing to fear form NATO.


----------



## Big Bend Texas

AZrailwhale said:


> Once Russia violated the treaties by invading Ukraine to seize Crimea, they were null and void.


No such treaty existed to begin with.


----------



## Rigby5

Big Bend Texas said:


> Well that certainly isn't true and the UN has no power over the decisions of the Commander in Chief of US forces.



False.
Read Article II, Paragraph 4.
I can't quote it directly, as the pdf does not allow copy/paste to this post.


			https://legal.un.org/avl/pdf/ls/wood_article.pdf
		

But the whole POINT of the UN is to make war illegal, except in immediate defense or as approved by the UN.


----------



## Big Bend Texas

Rigby5 said:


> False.
> Read Article II, Paragraph 4.
> I can't quote it directly, as the pdf does not allow copy/paste to this post.
> 
> 
> https://legal.un.org/avl/pdf/ls/wood_article.pdf
> 
> 
> But the whole POINT of the UN is to make war illegal, except in immediate defense or as approved by the UN.


Perhaps you should get an interpreter and read it for yourself.



> All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, *or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.*



That doesn't grant them any power of the US which can Veto any resolution by the Security Council.

If we started launching wars of conquest you might have a point but we haven't in a hundred years and certainly not since the creation of The UN.


----------



## task0778

_A statement signed by more than 300 historians who study genocide, Nazism and World War II said Putin’s rhetoric about de-Nazifying fascists among Ukraine’s elected leadership is “propaganda.”

“We strongly reject the Russian government’s cynical abuse of the term genocide, the memory of World War II and the Holocaust, and the equation of the Ukrainian state with the Nazi regime to justify its unprovoked aggression,” the statement says. “This rhetoric is factually wrong, morally repugnant and deeply offensive to the memory of millions of victims of Nazism and those who courageously fought against it, including Russian and Ukrainian soldiers of the Red Army.

“We do not idealize the Ukrainian state and society. Like any other country, it has right-wing extremists and violent xenophobic groups. Ukraine also ought to better confront the darker chapters of its painful and complicated history. Yet none of this justifies the Russian aggression and the gross mischaracterization of Ukraine.”

One of the authors of the statement, Eugene Finkel, an associate professor at the School of Advanced International Studies at Johns Hopkins University, told us the influence of Ukraine’s neo-Nazi faction is relatively small.

“Neo-Nazi, far right and xenophobic groups do exist in Ukraine, like in pretty much any other country, including Russia,” Finkel said. “They are vocal and can be prone to violence but they are numerically small, marginal and their political influence at the state level is non-existent. That is not to say that Ukraine doesn’t have a far-right problem. It does. But I would consider the KKK in the US and skinheads and neo-Nazi groups in Russia a much bigger problem and threat than the Ukrainian far right.”









						The Facts on 'De-Nazifying' Ukraine - FactCheck.org
					

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky says Russia’s talk of “de-Nazifying” Ukraine is a non-starter in peace negotiations. We’ll explain what these claims are all about and why experts say they are misleading.




					www.factcheck.org
				



_

Putin is trying to justify his imperialist invasion into another sovereign state with bullshit lies.


----------



## AZrailwhale

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> This is common knowledge that Gorbachev gave the Ukraine independence in 1991, but under certain conditions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Betrayal Of Gorbachev Regarding NATO Explained In Detail
> 
> 
> Clinton's betrayal of Gorbachov is the root cause of the current impasse. He promised not to expand NATO up to Russia's border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> progressivehub.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> {...
> Top leaders of the “Free World” all agreed that the United States would never enlarge NATO to reassure Gorbachev that the new Russia had nothing to fear from NATO.​By Sharon Tennison, Center for Citizen Initiatives
> At last … 30 years plus, the truth comes out. There are numerous accounts by the top leaders of the Free World that they all agreed that the United States would never enlarge NATO to reassure Mikhail Gorbachev that the new Russia had no worry from NATO, definitely there would be no enlargement beyond the borders of the reunited Germany.
> Below note how many of the VIP’s assured Gorbachev that he need have no fear … they were adamant that NATO would never move closer to the struggling-to-survive new Russia in the 1990s.
> These facts below have been ignored, blurred and buried as Bill Clinton mercilessly began admitting one piece of the  former USSR into NATO. Today NATO surrounds Russia with the latest NATO missiles and troops aimed at Russia.
> This is what Putin’s defiant resistance and threat to NATO in Ukraine is all about. He demands to have assurances that NATO will back off … or else. Russia is now strong enough militarily to make such demands. All of us could be caught in the crossfires if this situation isn’t resolved.
> ...}


And then Russia started invading its neighbors who freely turned to NATO for orotection from the bear.


Rigby5 said:


> How was the invasion of the sovereign and innocent country of Iraq, legal?
> It is only legal to invade when another nation is violating laws and rights of the US.
> Iraq in no way violated any laws or rights related to the US.


iraq was violating over a hundred UN resolutions AND the cease-fire that Iraq freely signed to end Gulf War 1 without regime change.   Iraq was guilty of invading its tiny, inoffensive neighbor Kuwait, conquering it and raping its citizens and looting its valuables.


----------



## Uriel

Big Bend Texas said:


> You are still fabricating, No language in the agreements prevented any of the former Soviet Bloc nations from Joining NATO.
> 
> NATO is not hostile to Russia and never has been, it's a purely defensive pact.
> 
> As long as Russia doesn't start attacking it's neighbors she has absolutely nothing to fear form NATO.


It's a little more complicated than that.  Russia does have a long history of manipulating neighboring countries and annexing parts of them, but this is done partially in response to Western meddling in their governments.

A lot of the former Soviet Republics have become proxy regimes for the West or Russia, depending on the year.  Ukraine is possibly the most unstable of all of them, with power shifting to either side nearly every time an election occurs.

For a while, there was a period where the unwritten rule was that Ukraine would be officially neutral while the West and Russia competed for control of the government.  The war in Donbas and the annexation of Crimea complicated things, particularly because the people of Crimea largely are more loyal to Russia than Ukraine.  This is because of the ethnic composition of the area.  The Donbas region is still majority Ukrainian, but they have significant Russian minority populations.

So, Russia has certainly created plenty of instability in the country and has annexed a large portion of it, but the most recent invasion was sparked by the decision to offer NATO membership to Ukraine.  Regardless of how one feels about that offer in and of itself, it is essentially Russia's casus belli.  Putin's response has largely backfired with the pending acceptance of Finland and Sweden into NATO, but it's doubtful that Putin will back down without some negotiation involved.

Currently, China is backing Russia in this, so the sanctions are limited in their effectiveness.  India, Brazil, and South Africa also still trade with them.  So unless we can get those countries to join the sanctions, negotiation is needed.


----------



## AZrailwhale

Rigby5 said:


> Do you think all negotiation are public or something?
> Russia could have prevented the Ukraine from becoming independent.


No it couldn't. Russia was in the process of disintegrating.  It had to hold on the critical republics and let everything else go.  Ukraine wasn't critical to Russian survival.


----------



## Uriel

Rigby5 said:


> Capitalism makes no distinction as to how you make a profit.
> Slavery in the US is proof of that.
> The world has a long history of crimes for profit over the last 10,000 years.
> Capitalism not only makes no such distinction, but the US would not even exist if not for the crime of stealing the country from the natives.


Capitalism depends on the establishment of property rights.  Under some systems, slaves are valid property, not people (effectively).  I'm not saying that makes it right, but that's the logic behind it.

This is why capitalism alone is not the basis for our system.  We do not define people as property anymore because of the advancement of natural rights.


----------



## Rigby5

Big Bend Texas said:


> No treaty is at all valid in the US unless it has been openly discussed, debated, and ratified by the Senate.



We are not talking about the US, which as a democratic republic, is very different than Russia or the Ukraine.
However, the US also have many secret pacts and treaties as well, such as the aid we gave to the Contras in Nicaragua.
We illegally supported all sorts of dictators in the Americas, without any public disclosure of the relevant treaties.


----------



## Rigby5

Big Bend Texas said:


> You continue simply making things up.
> 
> Capitalism is a voluntary exchange of money, goods, and services, theft is not capitalism.



Nonsense.
What about:
{...
Martin Shkreli, Who Raised Drug Prices 5,000 Percent, Heads into Fraud Trial​NEW YORK (Reuters) - Martin Shkreli, the pharmaceutical entrepreneur vilified as the "pharma bro" for raising the price of a life-saving drug by 5,000 percent, will go on trial on Monday for what U.S. prosecutors called a Ponzi-like scheme at his former hedge fund and a drug company he once ran.

Prosecutors have accused Shkreli of lying to investors in the hedge fund and siphoning millions of dollars in assets from biopharmaceutical company Retrophin Inc to repay them. He has pleaded not guilty.
...}








						Martin Shkreli, Who Raised Drug Prices 5,000 Percent, Heads into Fraud Trial
					

Accusers say he lied to investors




					www.scientificamerican.com
				



Increasing a life saving drug by a factor of 50 is not a voluntary exchange by any means.
And capitalists have never shy about theft, slavery, abuse, extortion, etc.
We capitalists were, then the US would still belong to the natives.


----------



## Rigby5

Big Bend Texas said:


> The only "Security Arrangement" was relative to Ukraine Giving up it's nukes.
> 
> There was nothing in the agreement preventing the former Soviet States from joining NATO nor can you find it in the agreement.


No, that was long AFTER Gorbachev had already negotiated the independence of the Ukraine.


----------



## Rigby5

Big Bend Texas said:


> The only "Security Arrangement" was relative to Ukraine Giving up it's nukes.
> 
> There was nothing in the agreement preventing the former Soviet States from joining NATO nor can you find it in the agreement.



There is no public copy of any of the agreements Gorbachev negotiates with any former Soviet state.
And even if there were, it would be in Russian and none of us could read it.


----------



## AZrailwhale

Big Bend Texas said:


> No such treaty existed to begin with.


I was speaking in the abstract.


----------



## skye

The dishonesty of the Left  in this Biden's  war  knows no bounds.

totally repulsive.


----------



## Rigby5

Big Bend Texas said:


> You are still fabricating, No language in the agreements prevented any of the former Soviet Bloc nations from Joining NATO.
> 
> NATO is not hostile to Russia and never has been, it's a purely defensive pact.
> 
> As long as Russia doesn't start attacking it's neighbors she has absolutely nothing to fear form NATO.



Wrong.
NATO has never been a defensive pact and NATO members are the heart of the world colonial imperialists in the world.
Spain., France, England, and the US have invaded most of the countries in the world, many more than once.
Nato murdered Qaddafi, some of its members illegally attacked Iraq, some of its members illegally attacked Assad, etc.


----------



## Big Bend Texas

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> NATO has never been a defensive pact and NATO members are the heart of the world colonial imperialists in the world.
> Spain., France, England, and the US have invaded most of the countries in the world, many more than once.
> Nato murdered Qaddafi, some of its members illegally attacked Iraq, some of its members illegally attacked Assad, etc.


Still lying out of your ass as usual I see.

NATO has never launched an unprovoked attack on any other nation.

As for Libya, if you're going to lie you really need to tell better lies.

UNSC Res. 1973 authorized the intervention in Libya.


----------



## Rigby5

AZrailwhale said:


> No it couldn't. Russia was in the process of disintegrating.  It had to hold on the critical republics and let everything else go.  Ukraine wasn't critical to Russian survival.



The nukes in the Ukraine were critical to Russia.
The Russian pipelines through the Ukraine were critical to Russia.
Not having a NATO belligerent on Russia's border was critical to Russia.
The warm water port in the Crimea was critical to Russia.
Not having ethnic Russians murdered in eastern Ukraine was critical to Russia.
ETC.


----------



## task0778

skye said:


> The dishonesty of the Left in this Biden's war knows no bounds.



I think the dishonesty of the Left on anything knows no bounds.


----------



## Big Bend Texas

Rigby5 said:


> The nukes in the Ukraine were critical to Russia.
> The Russian pipelines through the Ukraine were critical to Russia.
> Not having a NATO belligerent on Russia's border was critical to Russia.
> The warm water port in the Crimea was critical to Russia.
> Not having ethnic Russians murdered in eastern Ukraine was critical to Russia.
> ETC.


How is any of that relevant to this discussion?

If Ukraine was that critical to Russia they should never tried to figure out a way to hang onto it when the Soviet Union collapsed.

The didn't or couldn't so they don't get to dictate Ukraine's affairs or it's alliances.


----------



## Rigby5

Uriel said:


> Capitalism depends on the establishment of property rights.  Under some systems, slaves are valid property, not people (effectively).  I'm not saying that makes it right, but that's the logic behind it.
> 
> This is why capitalism alone is not the basis for our system.  We do not define people as property anymore because of the advancement of natural rights.



The fact capitalism can put property rights above inherent individual rights is why the US can not ever use capitalism at all for any basis for our political system.
Capitalism is an economic system, and if ever allowed to influence any political system, then the system becomes totally corrupted and has to be totally destroyed and started over.
Capitalism is not at all part of our political system and it constantly is a threat to our political system.
Clearly all capitalists degenerate into monopolies if not strictly prevented, and would use force, such as with slavery, if allowed.
Capitalism is inherently evil and dangerous, and the only reason we allow it is because it also is very good at producing weapons that can prevent us from being defeated by other capitalists.


----------



## Kosh

Think about it, Putin invaded Ukraine to get "white Supremist" aka Nazi's and now the far left claims anyone that disagrees with them as "White Supremist". Seems the far left and Putin are lock step.


----------



## Rigby5

skye said:


> The dishonesty of the Left  in this Biden's  war  knows no bounds.
> 
> totally repulsive.
> 
> 
> View attachment 648455



I am totally against the Ukraine, due to their support of the Holocaust in WWII, their attacks on ethnic Russians, etc.


----------



## Uriel

Rigby5 said:


> The fact capitalism can put property rights above inherent individual rights is why the US can not ever use capitalism at all for any basis for our political system.
> Capitalism is an economic system, and if ever allowed to influence any political system, then the system becomes totally corrupted and has to be totally destroyed and started over.
> Capitalism is not at all part of our political system and it constantly is a threat to our political system.
> Clearly all capitalists degenerate into monopolies if not strictly prevented, and would use force, such as with slavery, if allowed.
> Capitalism is inherently evil and dangerous, and the only reason we allow it is because it also is very good at producing weapons that can prevent us from being defeated by other capitalists.


Well, what we have and what most countries have is a combination of capitalism and socialism.  The debate is where the ideal balance is.  I personally prefer that we shift more towards an actual free market.

Socialism in its purest form doesn't tend to work well, as demonstrated by Venezuela.

The best that can be expected in that direction is a country like Norway, which is still very capitalist in most markets but heavily socializes certain amenities and oil & gas.

Communism is a non-starter, since it has killed more people than fascism.


----------



## task0778

Rigby5 said:


> The nukes in the Ukraine were critical to Russia.
> The Russian pipelines through the Ukraine were critical to Russia.
> Not having a NATO belligerent on Russia's border was critical to Russia.
> The warm water port in the Crimea was critical to Russia.
> Not having ethnic Russians murdered in eastern Ukraine was critical to Russia.
> ETC.



Ukraine had no nukes, they gave 'em up years ago.

The Russian pipelines were critical to Europe too,  Ukraine wasn't going to do anything about them.

Ukraine was not belligerent, and they aren't/weren't in NATO.  What is this belligerency shit, NOBODY was belligerent to Russia.  It was actually the other way around.

Rusia doesn't get to invade another sovereign country cuz they wanted a warm water port.  They coulda worked out a deal for that with Ukraine, but instead they started a war.

Ethnic Russians were not murdered in eastern Ukraine, that was total propaganda bullshit.


Russia fomented and started a war to gain territory that belonged to another sovereign state.  Period.


----------



## Rigby5

Big Bend Texas said:


> Still lying out of your ass as usual I see.
> 
> NATO has never launched an unprovoked attack on any other nation.
> 
> As for Libya, if you're going to lie you really need to tell better lies.
> 
> UNSC Res. 1973 authorized the intervention in Libya.



Oh, so then who wiped out Qaddafi's forces, resulting in him being murdered?
Why England join the US in attacking Saddam?

UN resolution 1973 did not authorize the NATO massacre of Qaddafi's forces that resulted in his murder.

{...
*Resolution 1973* was adopted by the United Nations Security Council on 17 March 2011 in response to the First Libyan Civil War. 
...
The resolution formed the legal basis for military intervention in the Libyan Civil War, demanding "an immediate ceasefire" and authorizing the international community to establish a no-fly zone and to use all means necessary short of foreign occupation to protect civilians.[4]
...}








						United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973 - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



But the NATO forced did not protect civilians or establish a no-fly-zone.
Instead the NATO forces massacred over 100,000 of Qaddafi's forces, leaving him defenseless and then murdered.
The UN has NOT voted for that at all.


----------



## Rigby5

Big Bend Texas said:


> How is any of that relevant to this discussion?
> 
> If Ukraine was that critical to Russia they should never tried to figure out a way to hang onto it when the Soviet Union collapsed.
> 
> The didn't or couldn't so they don't get to dictate Ukraine's affairs or it's alliances.



Wrong.
Russia could easily have hung onto the Ukraine.
That is the whole point.
Gorbachev clearly had to have negotiated with the Ukraine, and from all accounts, the Ukraine agreed to never join any alliance hostile to Russia.


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> Did NATO promise Gorbachev they would not advance on old Soviet states.
> Since NATO is trying to include the Ukraine as a member, that is a violation of the promises to Gorbachev.


No it is not you are lying about their agreement


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> No, most treaties are not public.
> And while it is pretty obvious the Ukraine and Russia agreed to term, a treaty is not necessary.
> Just like the US used force against Cuban missiles, Russia is also well within its self defense rights, to attack a belligerent Ukraine.


Wrong.

They are always public.

No it is not obvious. There was no issue with missiles nor any belligerent actions from Ukraine.


----------



## Big Bend Texas

Rigby5 said:


> Oh, so then who wiped out Qaddafi's forces, resulting in him being murdered?
> Why England join the US in attacking Saddam?
> 
> UN resolution 1973 did not authorize the NATO massacre of Qaddafi's forces that resulted in his murder.
> 
> {...
> *Resolution 1973* was adopted by the United Nations Security Council on 17 March 2011 in response to the First Libyan Civil War.
> ...
> The resolution formed the legal basis for military intervention in the Libyan Civil War, demanding "an immediate ceasefire" and authorizing the international community to establish a no-fly zone and to use all means necessary short of foreign occupation to protect civilians.[4]
> ...}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But the NATO forced did not protect civilians or establish a no-fly-zone.
> Instead the NATO forces massacred over 100,000 of Qaddafi's forces, leaving him defenseless and then murdered.
> The UN has NOT voted for that at all.


The terrorists land forces that were overtaking the country that were being attacked by Q'daffi's air force, the force US and coalition aircraft were there to stop.

You'd do well to shut up and quit proving to everyone just what an idiot you are.

The Forty countryes that joined us in a coalition against Saddam did so for many reasons, since it was GB's planes most frequently being targeted and shot at while enforcing the NFZ and the fact they are the 2nd Largest military power in the free world I think that question answers itself.

The invasion and removal of Saddam were authorized by numerous UN Resolutions beginning with UN Res 1441.


----------



## Rigby5

Uriel said:


> Well, what we have and what most countries have is a combination of capitalism and socialism.  The debate is where the ideal balance is.  I personally prefer that we shift more towards an actual free market.
> 
> Socialism in its purest form doesn't tend to work well, as demonstrated by Venezuela.
> 
> The best that can be expected in that direction is a country like Norway, which is still very capitalist in most markets but heavily socializes certain amenities and oil & gas.
> 
> Communism is a non-starter, since it has killed more people than fascism.



Wrong.
Socialism requires some coordination through government, but not capitalism.
Capitalism has nothing at all to do with government in a democratic republic.
And Venezuela was nothing at all like socialism.
It was a corruption by the wealthy elite, which is an oligarchy, not socialism.
And since it was profit motivated, that is more capitalism.


----------



## Big Bend Texas

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> Russia could easily have hung onto the Ukraine.
> That is the whole point.
> Gorbachev clearly had to have negotiated with the Ukraine, and from all accounts, the Ukraine agreed to never join any alliance hostile to Russia.


Then instead of burying us in more of your Rhetorical Diarrhea produce a copy of such an agreement.


----------



## Big Bend Texas

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> Socialism requires some coordination through government, but not capitalism.
> Capitalism has nothing at all to do with government in a democratic republic.
> And Venezuela was nothing at all like socialism.
> It was a corruption by the wealthy elite, which is an oligarchy, not socialism.
> And since it was profit motivated, that is more capitalism.


Still talking out of your ass.

What Capitalist nation has no gov't regulation over the economy?


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> Yes there is.
> When the US created the UN in 1945, Congress ratified the UN charter in to US law, and it makes all war illegal unless attacked first, or if the UN votes for it.


Wrong.

The UN does not supercede the constitution and we reserve the right to make war as we see fit,


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> Nonsense.  If Stalin was any sort of politico, he would not have had Trotsky murdered, or any of the real communists.
> Communism is the means under which all families live, so can't be theft.
> A dictator can't be a member of the proletariat,
> That is a linguistic contradiction.


Yes he would have because he was the true communist.

COmmunisk is not a voluntary agreement such as how families live.

Yes a dictator can be a member of the proletariate as Marx stated.


----------



## Big Bend Texas

Rigby5 said:


> And Venezuela was nothing at all like socialism.


You are absolutely talking out of your ass here.

Until the socialists took over it was one of the richest and most successful countries in the Western Hemisphere then just like Cuba as soon as "La Revolution" removed the rightful gov't things went to shit for them economically.


----------



## Rigby5

Soupnazi630 said:


> Wrong.
> 
> They are always public.
> 
> No it is not obvious. There was no issue with missiles nor any belligerent actions from Ukraine.



Oh, for example, for example, when Reagan sent Oliver North to exchange weapons for money to sent to the Contras in Nicaragua, that was all PUBLIC?


----------



## AntonToo

Uncensored2008 said:


> So like America where whites are inferior citizens that can be gunned down and arrested without charge for protesting?



Whites? Inferior citizens?

Man, you must've gotten dropped real hard on your head.


----------



## Big Bend Texas

Rigby5 said:


> Communism is the means under which all families live, so can't be theft.


Then why were so many of them starved to death, murdered outright or consigned to slow death in the gulags?


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> Profit comes from having currency.
> And stealing it is a time honored tradition among imperial colonialists like the US.
> 
> And your diatribe against Marx is silly.
> He was a proponent of the French Revolution to democracy from the monarchy.
> Marx never preached tyranny, but actually Libertarian Anarchy, where the "state would whither away".
> He wanted no coercive government at all.
> An idealist, but not racist or tyrant.
> You are just totally wrong.


Wrong I am totally right and you are lying.

Profit comes from a return on an investment.

Having currency in and of it self is not a profit.

My statements about marx are spot on accurate.


Marx preached tyranny and universal slavery.

Those are facts and you are proven wrong


----------



## Big Bend Texas

Rigby5 said:


> Oh, for example, for example, when Reagan sent Oliver North to exchange weapons for money to sent to the Contras in Nicaragua, that was all PUBLIC?


Neither of those operations had anything to do with a treaty.


----------



## Big Bend Texas

Rigby5 said:


> Teaching a language does not make Nazis, but having varying levels of rights based on what language is native to you, IS NAZI.


The "varying level of rights" had only to do with being taught in your native language in school.


----------



## Uriel

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> Socialism requires some coordination through government, but not capitalism.
> Capitalism has nothing at all to do with government in a democratic republic.
> And Venezuela was nothing at all like socialism.
> It was a corruption by the wealthy elite, which is an oligarchy, not socialism.
> And since it was profit motivated, that is more capitalism.


Every system beyond the commune level has an elite.  In fact, socialist systems tend to have far less economic mobility, which results in an elite that is much harder to join than in a capitalist one.  Wealth disparity is sometimes much lower, but that doesn't mean much when economic mobility is also lower.

While capitalism doesn't technically require a government, no capitalism in the real world exists without one.  It's like how no socialism beyond very small isolated groups is without an elite that is somewhat corrupt.  To be fair, capitalist systems have corrupt elites as well, but corruption varies by the country.

Profit alone does not define capitalism, nor does it preclude socialism.  Profit is surely easier to maintain with capitalism, but profit on a personal level isn't that difficult in a socialist system if you are part of the ruling elite.


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Uncensored2008 said:


> Let's not forget that Cocaine Mitch had his daughter on the Burisma board too. The Swamp has used Ukraine to embezzle foreign aid for decades. Hillary set the scheme up back when she was SOS under Barry da Fairy.


Mitch McConnell daughter??


----------



## Big Bend Texas

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> The USSR was supreme over the individual members, who were states, not separate countries.
> The US states used to be separate countries, until they joined the United States federation.
> Then they no longer were separate countries.
> They could  no longer declare war, negotiate treaties, etc.
> Same with the Ukraine.
> It lost it independence when it joined the USSR.


Still talking out of your ass, they were each nations under the umbrella of the "Union of Soviet Socialist Republics".

The only US state to ever be an independent Nation was Texas.  The original 13 states were British Colonies before joining together under first the Articles of Confederation and then later the US Constitution.

Stop being such an obvious blithering idiot.


----------



## Big Bend Texas

Uncensored2008 said:


> Let's not forget that Cocaine Mitch had his daughter on the Burisma board too. The Swamp has used Ukraine to embezzle foreign aid for decades. Hillary set the scheme up back when she was SOS under Barry da Fairy.


It must have taken the world's longest sewer snake to pull that one out of your ass.


----------



## Rigby5

Big Bend Texas said:


> The terrorists land forces that were overtaking the country that were being attacked by Q'daffi's air force, the force US and coalition aircraft were there to stop.
> 
> You'd do well to shut up and quit proving to everyone just what an idiot you are.
> 
> The Forty countryes that joined us in a coalition against Saddam did so for many reasons, since it was GB's planes most frequently being targeted and shot at while enforcing the NFZ and the fact they are the 2nd Largest military power in the free world I think that question answers itself.
> 
> The invasion and removal of Saddam were authorized by numerous UN Resolutions beginning with UN Res 1441.



That is stupid because the no-fly-zones in Iraq were totally illegal.
All those who joined against Saddam were criminals.

The UN NEVER authorized the removal of Saddam.
Iraq was actually NEVER in breach of any UN resolution, and the UN was acting entirely based on US lies.
{...
*United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441* is a United Nations Security Council resolution adopted unanimously by the United Nations Security Council on 8 November 2002, offering Iraq under Saddam Hussein "a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations" that had been set out in several previous resolutions (Resolutions 660, 661, 678, 686, 687, 688, 707, 715, 986, and 1284).[1] It provided a justification for the subsequent US invasion of Iraq.[2]

Resolution 1441 stated that Iraq was in material breach of the ceasefire terms presented under the terms of Resolution 687. Iraq's breaches related not only to weapons of mass destruction (WMD), but also the known construction of prohibited types of missiles, the purchase and import of prohibited armaments, and the continuing refusal of Iraq to compensate Kuwait for the widespread looting conducted by its troops during the 1990–1991 invasion and occupation. It also stated that "...false statements or omissions in the declarations submitted by Iraq pursuant to this resolution and failure by Iraq at any time to comply with, and cooperate fully in the implementation of, this resolution shall constitute a further material breach of Iraq's obligations."
...}
Iraq made no violations, had allowed all inspections for years, was not making missiles that violated anything, the UN could not legally demand compensation to Kuwait since Kuwait has caused is own invasion due to its theft of Iraqi oil, etc.
That is the most ridiculous excuse I have ever heard, and has long since been repudiated by all the inspectors who later proved Iraq was not in violation of anything at all.  The US was simply lying and making everyone do what we wanted.


----------



## AntonToo

Rigby5 said:


> And isn't it true that Baghdad Bob was right that the US was lying about Iraqi WMD, the US was committing war crimes, the invasion was illegal, the US murdered half a million innocent Iraqi civilians, the US illegally tortured POWs in Bagrham, etc.?
> Are you trying to imply that Baghdad Bob was wrong in some way?
> 
> The US has always been on the wrong side, deliberately starting wars to invade or install dictators, like with Chaig Kai Shek in China, Syngman Rhee in Korea, Diem in Vietnam, Samosa in Nicaragua, Pinochet in Chile, Batista in Cuba, the Shah in Iran, etc.



Yes moron, Baghdad Bob was a propaganda tool and was comically wrong in many many ways, just like you Moscow Boris.









						Hilarious Quotes from Baghdad Bob
					

Iraq's information minister, dubbed Baghdad Bob, made many outlandish statements during the 2003 U.S.-led invasion.




					www.liveabout.com


----------



## Rigby5

Soupnazi630 said:


> Yes he would have because he was the true communist.
> 
> COmmunisk is not a voluntary agreement such as how families live.
> 
> Yes a dictator can be a member of the proletariate as Marx stated.



That shows complete ignorance of Marx.
Marx continually said communism was voluntary, based on the inherent generous nature of man.
Marx defined the proletariat as equality among all, so then you can't have a wealthy elite, like Stalin.


----------



## Rigby5

Big Bend Texas said:


> You are absolutely talking out of your ass here.
> 
> Until the socialists took over it was one of the richest and most successful countries in the Western Hemisphere then just like Cuba as soon as "La Revolution" removed the rightful gov't things went to shit for them economically.



Wrong.
Before Chavez, Venezuela has massive poverty.
Chavez greatly improved the quality of life.
But then US economic sanctions illegal killed their oil industry.
The US is directly responsible for the current state of Venezuela entirely.


----------



## Rigby5

Big Bend Texas said:


> Still talking out of your ass, they were each nations under the umbrella of the "Union of Soviet Socialist Republics".
> 
> The only US state to ever be an independent Nation was Texas.  The original 13 states were British Colonies before joining together under first the Articles of Confederation and then later the US Constitution.
> 
> Stop being such an obvious blithering idiot.



Any time a state joins a federation, it has to give up its sovereignty.
Otherwise each state would end up negotiating treaties themselves, instead of having only one for the whole federalation.
That is why you have federations, and how they work.


----------



## Rigby5

AntonToo said:


> Yes moron, Baghdad Bob was a propaganda tool and was comically wrong in many many ways, just like you Moscow Boris.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hilarious Quotes from Baghdad Bob
> 
> 
> Iraq's information minister, dubbed Baghdad Bob, made many outlandish statements during the 2003 U.S.-led invasion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.liveabout.com



No, it was the US who lied and claimed that Iraq has WMD, terrorist ties, and threatened the US.
Do you expect vicims of US lies and aggression to be honest to the US then when we are trying to murder them?


----------



## Big Bend Texas

Rigby5 said:


> That is stupid because the no-fly-zones in Iraq were totally illegal.
> All those who joined against Saddam were criminals.
> 
> The UN NEVER authorized the removal of Saddam.
> Iraq was actually NEVER in breach of any UN resolution, and the UN was acting entirely based on US lies.
> {...
> *United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441* is a United Nations Security Council resolution adopted unanimously by the United Nations Security Council on 8 November 2002, offering Iraq under Saddam Hussein "a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations" that had been set out in several previous resolutions (Resolutions 660, 661, 678, 686, 687, 688, 707, 715, 986, and 1284).[1] It provided a justification for the subsequent US invasion of Iraq.[2]
> 
> Resolution 1441 stated that Iraq was in material breach of the ceasefire terms presented under the terms of Resolution 687. Iraq's breaches related not only to weapons of mass destruction (WMD), but also the known construction of prohibited types of missiles, the purchase and import of prohibited armaments, and the continuing refusal of Iraq to compensate Kuwait for the widespread looting conducted by its troops during the 1990–1991 invasion and occupation. It also stated that "...false statements or omissions in the declarations submitted by Iraq pursuant to this resolution and failure by Iraq at any time to comply with, and cooperate fully in the implementation of, this resolution shall constitute a further material breach of Iraq's obligations."
> ...}
> Iraq made no violations, had allowed all inspections for years, was not making missiles that violated anything, the UN could not legally demand compensation to Kuwait since Kuwait has caused is own invasion due to its theft of Iraqi oil, etc.
> That is the most ridiculous excuse I have ever heard, and has long since been repudiated by all the inspectors who later proved Iraq was not in violation of anything at all.  The US was simply lying and making everyone do what we wanted.


You continue lying out of your ass.

Under 1483 who were recognized as the Authorized Occupying's force in Iraq?

When Iraq failed to meet it's obligations under 686-687 under 1441, the Gulf War Cease Fire Agreement was rendered moot.

At that time the cease fire was over and the Coalition forces were then empowered to take whatever steps they believed necessary to destroy Saddam's army.

Once captured he was turned over to his own people for trial, found guilty of countless war crimes both legally and properly executed.


----------



## Leviticus

Ukraine has made a genuine effort to stem corruption in their government over recent.  These efforts are the reason why both parties chose to support giving them military aid.  If Russia succeeds in annexing Ukraine, they would control a large amount of oil and natural gas and would be able to threaten the. European energy market.

That is Putin's goal, to invade country after country, an get as close to a monopoly on European oil and gas as he can.  Ukraine isn't the only country they plan on invading.  If Ukraine, and other fossil fuel rich countries, joined NATO and the EU, and had the military protection of those memberships, those plans would be thwarted, which is why Putin went as far as threatening nuclear war if Ukraine were allowed to join.


----------



## Big Bend Texas

Rigby5 said:


> Any time a state joins a federation, it has to give up its sovereignty.
> Otherwise each state would end up negotiating treaties themselves, instead of having only one for the whole federalation.
> That is why you have federations, and how they work.


They didn't give up all of their sovereignty nor territorial integrity.  A federation is an agreement between separate states under an overall umbrella.

Learn to shut up when you have no damned clue what you're talking about.


----------



## Big Bend Texas

Leviticus said:


> Ukraine has made a genuine effort to stem corruption in their government over recent.  These efforts are the reason why both parties chose to support giving them military aid.  If Russia succeeds in annexing Ukraine, they would control a large amount of oil and natural gas and would be able to threaten the. European energy market.
> 
> That is Putin's goal, to invade country after country, an get as close to a monopoly on European oil and gas as he can.  Ukraine isn't the only country they plan on invading.  If Ukraine, and other fossil fuel rich countries, joined NATO and the EU, and had the military protection of those memberships, those plans would be thwarted, which is why Putin went as far as threatening nuclear war if Ukraine were allowed to join.


Zelensky's platform was nearly all one of reform and he was overwhelmingly elected with 73% of the vote.


----------



## AntonToo

Dissident said:


> In the middle of April, I published an article which dealt with the question whether some Ukrainian laws are the Nazi ones (see here).
> This article was discussed on USMB (see here) and nobody could disprove that these laws are the Nazi ones, indeed.
> 
> It’s an obvious fact that, for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars - according to these laws - are “first-rate” citizens of Ukraine and have more rights; ethnic Hungarians are “second-rate” citizens and have less rights than Crimean Tatars; and ethnic Russians are “third-rate” citizens and have less rights than Hungarians.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> It’s another obvious fact, that Ukrainian rulers always make territorial claims to the Russian Crimean Peninsula, where ethnic Russians amount to 67.9% of population (see here). *
> It means that the Ukrainian rulers want to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> At the same time, Ukraine intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join NATO etc. The Russian government many times tried to persuade the Ukrainian rulers to remain nonaligned, to let Crimea stay in Russia etc. But Ukraine continued to arm itself etc.
> 
> At a certain point of time the Russian government decided that the actions of the Ukrainian rulers reached a dangerous point and very soon the situation could become even more dangerous. And then, the Russian government decided to start a military operation against Ukraine.
> 
> But the U.S. supported and support all Ukrainian actions including its claims to the Crimean Peninsula – despite of the Nazi laws in Ukraine.
> *It means that the U.S. support, inter alia, the Ukrainian plan to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> The question naturally arises – Why do the U.S. support such a country as Ukraine?
> 
> My opinion is that it doesn’t matter for the U.S. what kind of a country Ukraine is. The U.S. want to reduce Russian influence in Europe; the U.S. want to sell their liquefied gas in Europe etc.
> Therefore, in my opinion, the U.S. are ready to support even Nazis if these Nazis are hostile towards Russia.
> 
> Source



Wow idiot, did you just seriously say that Ukranians teaching classes in Ukranian proves they are Nazis?

Seriously? I guess you also think that Russians ARE NOT Nazis while they are invading sovereign country under laughable excuses, commiting war crimes left and right, piling up civilians in mass graves, talking about how there is no such thing as Ukranian nation, while domestically arresting protesters and passing laws that allows them to jail anyone that calls this war a war?

Of course not! There is no way NOT NAZI Russia would make someone learn in Russian....in a Russian school.


----------



## AntonToo

Rigby5 said:


> No, it was the US who lied and claimed that Iraq has WMD, terrorist ties, and threatened the US.
> Do you expect vicims of US lies and aggression to be honest to the US then when we are trying to murder them?



Moron, nothing you've just said refuted Bagdad Bob's insane denials that Americans are crushing Iraqi army and taking over. You are just too damn stupid to understand that.

I'm not going to get into a sidetrack of relitigating Iraq war with a crazy whack job like you. Go fish somewhere else.


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> Oh, for example, for example, when Reagan sent Oliver North to exchange weapons for money to sent to the Contras in Nicaragua, that was all PUBLIC?


That was not a treaty moron


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> Before Chavez, Venezuela has massive poverty.
> Chavez greatly improved the quality of life.
> But then US economic sanctions illegal killed their oil industry.
> The US is directly responsible for the current state of Venezuela entirely.


Completely ignorant and WRONG.

They were a first wolrd nation before chavez who increased poverty enormously.

Chavez is resonsible


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> That shows complete ignorance of Marx.
> Marx continually said communism was voluntary, based on the inherent generous nature of man.
> Marx defined the proletariat as equality among all, so then you can't have a wealthy elite, like Stalin.


He said no such thing he clearly stated it had to be enforced by force and violence.

He defined the dictator ship of the proletariate as an absolute despot and an absolute necessity.


----------



## Dissident

Confederate Soldier said:


> YOU SAY ...


You make me repeat the same things again and again. Please read the text below - especially the sentence which is marked by blue color.



> *Dissident said: *
> At first, you (Confederate Soldier) lied that I allegedly had not named the Ukrainian laws, which are discussed. Then you refused to answer the question, whether these Ukrainian laws are Nazi ones; see here.
> It makes no sense to discuss anything with a person who - like you – lies and refuses to answer questions relating to object of discussion.


 https://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/why-do-the-u-s-support-ukraine-which-has-nazi-laws.966582/page-10#post-29607906


----------



## Confederate Soldier

Dissident said:


> You make me repeat the same things again and again. Please read the text below - especially the sentence which is marked by blue color.
> 
> Why do the U.S. support Ukraine which has Nazi laws?




My god you're a fucking idiot. After going through a sea of links, only to go to your original OP, you have not stated one law and it's effect on racial minorities.


----------



## Dissident

AntonToo said:


> Wow idiot, did you just seriously say that Ukranians teaching classes in Ukranian proves they are Nazis?


You make me repeat the same things again and again. Please read the text below.



> *Dissident said: *
> The thread Aren't these Ukrainian laws the Nazi ones? doesn't deal with the problem of teaching a national language in Ukraine – their national language is the Ukrainian.
> Under the above mentioned Ukrainian laws, *different ethnic groups have different rights in Ukraine* - for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars have more rights to use their native language – the Tatar language – during the education; ethnic Hungarians have less rights than Crimean Tatars to use their native language – the Hungarian – during the education; and ethnic Russians have less rights to use their native language – the Russian - than Hungarians.


 https://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/why-do-the-u-s-support-ukraine-which-has-nazi-laws.966582/page-9#post-29586396


----------



## Dissident

task0778 said:


> _A statement signed by more than 300 historians who study genocide, Nazism and World War II said...
> 
> “We do not idealize the Ukrainian state and society. Like any other country, it has *right-wing extremists and violent xenophobic groups.* _


This “statement signed by more than 300 historians” about Ukrainian right-wing extremists and violent xenophobic groups has nothing to do with Ukrainian *LAWS *– i.e. with the Ukrainian Law on Indigenous Peoples and Law on Secondary Education (see here), which are discussed here.

And please answer the question below:
Aren’t the laws, which divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, the Nazi laws?


----------



## Uncensored2008

AntonToo said:


> Whites? Inferior citizens?
> 
> Man, you must've gotten dropped real hard on your head.



Don't be stupider than you have to.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Soupnazi630 said:


> Wrong I am totally right and you are lying.
> 
> Profit comes from a return on an investment.
> 
> Having currency in and of it self is not a profit.



True



Soupnazi630 said:


> My statements about marx are spot on accurate.
> 
> 
> Marx preached tyranny and universal slavery.
> 
> Those are facts and you are proven wrong



Really?

Show me?



			https://www.marxists.org/admin/books/manifesto/Manifesto.pdf


----------



## Uncensored2008

CrusaderFrank said:


> Mitch McConnell daughter??



Correct.

Porter McConnell was/is part and party to the Hunter Biden, Chris Heinz (John Kerry), Paul Pelosi Jr. embezzlement gang.

Corruption, it turns out, is a bi-partisan effort.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> Before Chavez, Venezuela has massive poverty.
> Chavez greatly improved the quality of life.
> But then US economic sanctions illegal killed their oil industry.
> The US is directly responsible for the current state of Venezuela entirely.



See, there you go just flat out lying, and when you do that about common subjects, you just look like a fucking moron.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Leviticus said:


> Ukraine has made a genuine effort to stem corruption in their government over recent.  These efforts are the reason why both parties chose to support giving them military aid.  If Russia succeeds in annexing Ukraine, they would control a large amount of oil and natural gas and would be able to threaten the. European energy market.
> 
> That is Putin's goal, to invade country after country, an get as close to a monopoly on European oil and gas as he can.  Ukraine isn't the only country they plan on invading.  If Ukraine, and other fossil fuel rich countries, joined NATO and the EU, and had the military protection of those memberships, those plans would be thwarted, which is why Putin went as far as threatening nuclear war if Ukraine were allowed to join.



Ukraine was indeed fighting corruption, but the big guy wanted his 10% so he extorted them to stop.


----------



## AntonToo

Dissident said:


> You make me repeat the same things again and again. Please read the text below.
> 
> Why do the U.S. support Ukraine which has Nazi laws?



You don't have a *RIGHT* to be taught in foreign language.

Private schools in Ukraine can teach in any language they want and to say that Ukraine mandating national language in their *PUBLIC *education system is proof that they are somehow a Nazis state is straight INSANE.

Any desperate for pretext idiot can grab a certain narrow law in of ANY country and use that to claim that the country is Nazi. It's pure bullshit.


----------



## Uncensored2008

AntonToo said:


> You don't have a *RIGHT* to be taught in foreign language.



Really? You sure sing a different tune about illegal aliens in America.


AntonToo said:


> To say that Ukraine mandating national language in their *PUBLIC *system is Nazism make is straight INSANE. Private schools in Ukraine can teach in any language they want.



Yet you Nazi democrats said exactly that when we demanded English in our public schools.,



AntonToo said:


> Any desperate for pretext idiot can grab a law in of ANY country and use that to claim that the country is Nazi. It's pure bullshit.



I should invest in a rake factory, given how many of them you step on...


----------



## AntonToo

Uncensored2008 said:


> Really? You sure sing a different tune about illegal aliens in America.


No I don't moron. I've never claimed that there is some sort of fundamental* RIGHT *to be taught in foreign language in public school.


----------



## AntonToo

Uncensored2008 said:


> Yet you Nazi democrats said exactly that when we demanded English in our public schools.


Bullshit, nobody called rightwingers Nazis just because they wanted to do away with ESL classes.


----------



## Uncensored2008

AntonToo said:


> No I don't moron. I've never claimed that there is some sort of fundamental* RIGHT *to be taught in foreign language in public school.



So you support ENGLISH ONLY in public schools?


----------



## AntonToo

Uncensored2008 said:


> So you support ENGLISH ONLY in public schools?


Of course not. It's a good policy to provide English as Second Language classes in public schools for immigrants to ease integration process for them. But not providing ESL classes would not make us Nazis suddenly.

In USA however we don't have a problem of militarily aggressive Mexico constantly looking to invade and annex parts of our country under pretenses of protecting native Spanish speakers.


----------



## kaz

g5000 said:


> So all you have is the Ukrainian language is taught to all students, comrade?  And that makes them Nazis?  BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!



When you try to be rational, you follow that with stupid shit like this that is as whacked as what you just successfully argued against.



g5000 said:


> Be careful.  There are a lot of Republicans who believe only English should be taught in our schools, too.  They demand English be made the official language of the US. Are they Nazis, comrade?



And note you can't write any post without lying:

g5000 the liar wrong "a lot of Republicans who believe only English should be taught in our schools"

Actually, Republicans believe English should be the first language taught, not that it be the only one taught.

You still don't get it?   Do you?  You're too big a sell out for that


----------



## Uncensored2008

AntonToo said:


> Of course not. It's a good policy to provide English as Second Language classes in public schools for immigrants to ease integration process for them. But not providing ESL classes would not make us Nazis suddenly.
> 
> In USA however we don't have a problem of militarily aggressive Mexico constantly looking to invade and annex parts of our country under pretenses of protecting native Spanish speakers.



So you're a hypocrite and a fraud.


----------



## Uncensored2008

kaz said:


> When you try to be rational, you follow that with stupid shit like this that is as whacked as what you just successfully argued against.
> 
> 
> 
> And note you can't write any post without lying:
> 
> g5000 the liar wrong "a lot of Republicans who believe only English should be taught in our schools"
> 
> Actually, Republicans believe English should be the first language taught, not that it be the only one taught.
> 
> You still don't get it?   Do you?  You're too big a sell out for that



The fact is, Guno hates America.


----------



## AntonToo

Uncensored2008 said:


> So you're a hypocrite and a fraud.


Yep, every time I forget just fucking ridiculous and stupid you are...you are sure to remind me.


----------



## sartre play

Dissident said:


> In the middle of April, I published an article which dealt with the question whether some Ukrainian laws are the Nazi ones (see here).
> This article was discussed on USMB (see here) and nobody could disprove that these laws are the Nazi ones, indeed.
> 
> It’s an obvious fact that, for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars - according to these laws - are “first-rate” citizens of Ukraine and have more rights; ethnic Hungarians are “second-rate” citizens and have less rights than Crimean Tatars; and ethnic Russians are “third-rate” citizens and have less rights than Hungarians.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> It’s another obvious fact, that Ukrainian rulers always make territorial claims to the Russian Crimean Peninsula, where ethnic Russians amount to 67.9% of population (see here). *
> It means that the Ukrainian rulers want to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> At the same time, Ukraine intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join NATO etc. The Russian government many times tried to persuade the Ukrainian rulers to remain nonaligned, to let Crimea stay in Russia etc. But Ukraine continued to arm itself etc.
> 
> At a certain point of time the Russian government decided that the actions of the Ukrainian rulers reached a dangerous point and very soon the situation could become even more dangerous. And then, the Russian government decided to start a military operation against Ukraine.
> 
> But the U.S. supported and support all Ukrainian actions including its claims to the Crimean Peninsula – despite of the Nazi laws in Ukraine.
> *It means that the U.S. support, inter alia, the Ukrainian plan to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> The question naturally arises – Why do the U.S. support such a country as Ukraine?
> 
> My opinion is that it doesn’t matter for the U.S. what kind of a country Ukraine is. The U.S. want to reduce Russian influence in Europe; the U.S. want to sell their liquefied gas in Europe etc.
> Therefore, in my opinion, the U.S. are ready to support even Nazis if these Nazis are hostile towards Russia.
> 
> Source


IF you use this kind of logic, it points fingers back at US as well as most of the world,
 Here you can be judged by your skin color, in the world there has been hate & murder over the size & shape of a nose.


----------



## kaz

Uncensored2008 said:


> The fact is, Guno hates America.



g5000 shows what hate is all about.   He can't make a statement without professing his guttural hatred as if anyone would forget how irrational and what a loser he is


----------



## kaz

AntonToo said:


> Yep, every time I forget just fucking ridiculous and stupid you are...you are sure to remind me.



Uncensored2008 is certainly showing what a brainless ninny you are.    Why are you helping him, anyway?


----------



## sartre play

Dissident said:


> Please give your definition of a Nazi state.
> For me, *Nazi state is a state whose laws divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories having different rights.*
> And the modern Ukraine matches this definition.


Pot calls kettle black?


----------



## Uncensored2008

AntonToo said:


> Yep, every time I forget just fucking ridiculous and stupid you are...you are sure to remind me.



Ukraine teaching in Ukrainian GOOD, America teaching in English BAD - bahh bahhhh bahhhh









						Inside The Racist Push To Make English The United States' Official Language
					

The 'English-Only' movement masquerades as pro-immigrant. It is anything but.




					theestablishment.co


----------



## Rigby5

Big Bend Texas said:


> You continue lying out of your ass.
> 
> Under 1483 who were recognized as the Authorized Occupying's force in Iraq?
> 
> When Iraq failed to meet it's obligations under 686-687 under 1441, the Gulf War Cease Fire Agreement was rendered moot.
> 
> At that time the cease fire was over and the Coalition forces were then empowered to take whatever steps they believed necessary to destroy Saddam's army.
> 
> Once captured he was turned over to his own people for trial, found guilty of countless war crimes both legally and properly executed.



No one was ever authorized to occupy Iraq.
The UN voted against the use of force.
The US invaded Iraq on its own, illegally.

The fact the US kept claiming Iraq was not meeting its obligation, did NOT at all authorize the US to use force.

Without UN authorization, the US invasion was totally and completely illegal.

Saddam committed no war crimes and was illegal murdered over the execution of the adult male population of a village that tried to ambush his convoy.  They were legally found guilty after a trial, and their execution was appropriate for their crime.  Saddam did nothing illegal, ever.


----------



## task0778

Dissident said:


> This “statement signed by more than 300 historians” about Ukrainian right-wing extremists and violent xenophobic groups has nothing to do with Ukrainian *LAWS *– i.e. with the Ukrainian Law on Indigenous Peoples and Law on Secondary Education (see here), which are discussed here.
> 
> And please answer the question below:
> Aren’t the laws, which divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, the Nazi laws?



Such laws, if they exist, are the result of discrimination that you find in other countries around the world, such as China.  Do you want to claim China is a buncha Nazis?  Sounds more like laws that progressive liberal democrats want in this country.


----------



## Rigby5

Leviticus said:


> Ukraine has made a genuine effort to stem corruption in their government over recent.  These efforts are the reason why both parties chose to support giving them military aid.  If Russia succeeds in annexing Ukraine, they would control a large amount of oil and natural gas and would be able to threaten the. European energy market.
> 
> That is Putin's goal, to invade country after country, an get as close to a monopoly on European oil and gas as he can.  Ukraine isn't the only country they plan on invading.  If Ukraine, and other fossil fuel rich countries, joined NATO and the EU, and had the military protection of those memberships, those plans would be thwarted, which is why Putin went as far as threatening nuclear war if Ukraine were allowed to join.



Wrong.
Russia has more oil than the Ukraine, and is not even interested in the oil producing provinces.
Russia is only interested in the provinces that used to be part of Russia until 1955, and that is only because the Azov Battalion of the Ukraine was murdering ethnic Russians.  
In fact, it is the Ukraine that was found guilty in the world court of stealing Russian oil from the Russian pipelines running through the Ukraine.
The reason Putin had to threaten nuclear war was because NATO was trying to put nukes on Russia's border, making a first strike potential without retaliation.


----------



## Rigby5

Big Bend Texas said:


> They didn't give up all of their sovereignty nor territorial integrity.  A federation is an agreement between separate states under an overall umbrella.
> 
> Learn to shut up when you have no damned clue what you're talking about.



Joining a federation most certainly does give up national sovereignty.
That is the whole point of a federation.
If California were to conduct its own treaties with Mexico, that would clearly be illegal.

Since the Russian provinces were given to the Ukraine in 1955 as a reward for joining the federation, then leaving the federation should have forfeit them back to Russia.

If Texas or California were to try to negotiate to leave the US federation, then obviously at bare minimum requirement would be that they not join a coalition hostile to the US.

This would be even more imperative to Russia, that lost about 50 million people in WWII and extremely paranoid about future hostile threats.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Rigby5 said:


> Joining a federation most certainly does give up national sovereignty.
> That is the whole point of a federation.
> If California were to conduct its own treaties with Mexico, that would clearly be illegal.



You mean like if California were to create a treaty with Mexico as a "sanctuary state?"


Rigby5 said:


> Since the Russian provinces were given to the Ukraine in 1955 as a reward for joining the federation, then leaving the federation should have forfeit them back to Russia.
> 
> If Texas or California were to try to negotiate to leave the US federation, then obviously at bare minimum requirement would be that they not join a coalition hostile to the US.
> 
> This would be even more imperative to Russia, that lost about 50 million people in WWII and extremely paranoid about future hostile threats.



In 1955 there was no "Russian Federation."

You need to lie less.


----------



## Dissident

sartre play said:


> IF you use this kind of logic, it points fingers back at US as well as most of the world,


You make me repeat the same things again and again. Please read the text below.



> *Dissident said: *
> If you know any US laws, which divide US citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, please tell the titles of these US laws and tell how they divide US citizens into these categories.
> 
> I personally don’t know such *US *laws, but I know such *Ukrainian *laws and I can tell the titles of these Ukrainian laws - the Ukrainian Law on Indigenous Peoples and Law on Secondary Education; please read the first post of the thread Aren't these Ukrainian laws the Nazi ones?
> 
> https://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/why-do-the-u-s-support-ukraine-which-has-nazi-laws.966582/page-9#post-29593777


----------



## AntonToo

Uncensored2008 said:


> Ukraine teaching in Ukrainian GOOD, America teaching in English BAD - bahh bahhhh bahhhh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inside The Racist Push To Make English The United States' Official Language
> 
> 
> The 'English-Only' movement masquerades as pro-immigrant. It is anything but.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theestablishment.co


Dumbass, not everything good or bad is Nazism.

If US gets rid of ESL classes that would be bad policy, *but that doesn't mean that we are somehow Nazis*.

Is that a concept too complicated for your tiny partisan squirrel brain?


----------



## Rigby5

Big Bend Texas said:


> Zelensky's platform was nearly all one of reform and he was overwhelmingly elected with 73% of the vote.



In an election that was well known to be totally corrupt, with the competition being imprisoned or poisoned.
The Ukraine is likely the single most corrupt country in the world, with the legitimate government taken out by military takeover.
The government is so corrupt that against Ukrainian law, some cabinet members were even US citizens instead of Ukrainian.


AntonToo said:


> Wow idiot, did you just seriously say that Ukranians teaching classes in Ukranian proves they are Nazis?
> 
> Seriously? I guess you also think that Russians ARE NOT Nazis while they are invading sovereign country under laughable excuses, commiting war crimes left and right, piling up civilians in mass graves, talking about how there is no such thing as Ukranian nation, while domestically arresting protesters and passing laws that allows them to jail anyone that calls this war a war?
> 
> Of course not! There is no way NOT NAZI Russia would make someone learn in Russian....in a Russian school.



Wrong.
No one said anything about teaching classes.
What is being discussed is people having their rights determined by what class they are designated as being put into, based on what language they speak.
Meaning Russian speaking citizens were being denied the ability to vote, hold office, etc.

You clearly do not know what Nazis are.
They are anti-socialists, meaning ultra capitalists.
So a country as socialist as Russia can not be Nazi, while the Ukraine obviously is based on privilege for the wealthy elite.

And Russia had plenty of justification that required the invasion, such as the Ukraine stealing oil, murdering ethnic Russians, trying to put NATO nukes on Russia's border, etc.
Haven't you read anything at all about how this all started?


----------



## Uncensored2008

AntonToo said:


> Dumbass, not everything good or bad is Nazism.
> 
> Get it???



Yes, logical fallacy such as the above non-sequitur is as close to logic as you ever wander.


----------



## Rigby5

AntonToo said:


> Moron, nothing you've just said refuted Bagdad Bob's insane denials that Americans are crushing Iraqi army and taking over. You are just too damn stupid to understand that.
> 
> I'm not going to get into a sidetrack of relitigating Iraq war with a crazy whack job like you. Go fish somewhere else.



The point of Bagdad Bob was that he was a body double to reduce the odds of Saddam getting assassinated.
Since 16 of the previous 17 leaders of Iraq had been assassinated, that is a smart move.
And of course the whole point of a body double is misinformation.
Do you expect Saddam to wear a red hat or something so it would have been easier for us to assassinate him?
You do not let an invading force know the truth.
They are the enemy.


----------



## AntonToo

Rigby5 said:


> The point of Bagdad Bob was that he was a body double to reduce the odds of Saddam getting assassinated.
> Since 16 of the previous 17 leaders of Iraq had been assassinated, that is a smart move.
> And of course the whole point of a body double is misinformation.



Concession accepted.


----------



## AntonToo

Uncensored2008 said:


> Yes, logical fallacy such as the above non-sequitur is as close to logic as you ever wander.



There is no fallacy in saying that there could be disagreement on good policy without one side being Nazis automatically.

You are just too fucking stupid to admit such simple facts.


----------



## Rigby5

Soupnazi630 said:


> That was not a treaty moron



Once Reagan got into power, it was effected by US policies, so then it WAS a treaty.
Just illegal and secret.
Treaties can often be secret and illegal, like the Molotov/Ribbentrop division of Poland.


----------



## Rigby5

Soupnazi630 said:


> Completely ignorant and WRONG.
> 
> They were a first wolrd nation before chavez who increased poverty enormously.
> 
> Chavez is resonsible



So then the fact the illegal US embargo that prevented Venezuela from selling oil, had NO effect on their economy?


----------



## AntonToo

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> No one said anything about teaching classes.
> What is being discussed is people having their rights determined by what class they are designated as being put into, based on what language they speak.
> Meaning *Russian speaking citizens were being denied the ability to vote, hold office, etc.*



*Pure bullshit.*

Zelensky's first language is Russian and he speaks it fluently.

How do you even have the gull to post such blatant falsehoods?


----------



## Rigby5

Soupnazi630 said:


> He said no such thing he clearly stated it had to be enforced by force and violence.
> 
> He defined the dictator ship of the proletariate as an absolute despot and an absolute necessity.



Wrong.

{... 
"*Withering away of the state*" is a Marxist concept coined by Friedrich Engels referring to the idea that, with the realization of socialism, the social institution of a state will eventually become obsolete and disappear as the society will be able to govern itself without the state and its coercive enforcement of the law.
...}





						Withering away of the state - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Both Marx and Engles were clear that they belief that capitalist greed was the fault of the corrupt wealthy elite, and that once there was justice, that inherent generosity of people would take over and make government force totally unnecessary.

The phrase, "dictatorship of the proletariat" means very specifically, a democratic republic, based on cooperation.
It means the exact opposite of what you claim, a centralized authoritarian dictatorship.
The proletariat is the masses.
A dictatorship of the masses IS a democratic republic.


----------



## Rigby5

Confederate Soldier said:


> My god you're a fucking idiot. After going through a sea of links, only to go to your original OP, you have not stated one law and it's effect on racial minorities.



Racial discrimination is never openly admitted by passing legislation, but is implemented by discriminatory actions by the executive.  For example, the Azov Battalion lynching other ethnicities, the same as the KKK did.
The Kyiv police, military, etc., prevent ethnic Russians from being allowed to vote, run for office, etc.
The number of candidates murdered or imprisoned by Kyiv, is huge and well known.
You are just ignorant.


----------



## Rigby5

Uncensored2008 said:


> See, there you go just flat out lying, and when you do that about common subjects, you just look like a fucking moron.



Wrong.
How are economic sanctions again Venezuela legal or anything more than an attempt at political discrimination?
And I remind you that economic warfare of civilian commerce is a war crime as per the 1906 Geneva Conventions.

{...
Ever since the arrival of Hugo Chávez in 1999, Washington has been trying to overthrow the Bolivarian Process. In recent years, these regime-change efforts have mainly relied on an all-out economic war against Venezuela with a weapon of choice: unilateral coercive measures, commonly known as sanctions.

Below you will find a list of recommended materials to understand the nature, reach and impact of US-led sanctions against Venezuela, as well as grassroots resistance.

The economic aggression against Venezuela began with individual sanctions and it quickly escalated to a full-fledged blockade. The country's oil, mining, banking and food import sectors have been the subject of unilateral coercive measures.

*[Infographic]* The Blockade Against Venezuela: Measures and Consequences

Venezuela's oil sector has been the US Treasury Department’s main target in an attempt to starve the country of foreign income. The result has been a drastic fall in output since the first sanctions were imposed in 2017.
...}





						US-led Sanctions Against Venezuela: A Primer
					

A list of articles and multimedia content on Washington's economic aggression against Caracas.




					venezuelanalysis.com


----------



## Rigby5

Uncensored2008 said:


> Ukraine teaching in Ukrainian GOOD, America teaching in English BAD - bahh bahhhh bahhhh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inside The Racist Push To Make English The United States' Official Language
> 
> 
> The 'English-Only' movement masquerades as pro-immigrant. It is anything but.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theestablishment.co



No one ever mentioned teaching classes.
What was discussed was political discrimination by ethnic classes, like ethnic Russians not being allowed to vote of run for office.


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> No one was ever authorized to occupy Iraq.
> The UN voted against the use of force.
> The US invaded Iraq on its own, illegally.
> 
> The fact the US kept claiming Iraq was not meeting its obligation, did NOT at all authorize the US to use force.
> 
> Without UN authorization, the US invasion was totally and completely illegal.
> 
> Saddam committed no war crimes and was illegal murdered over the execution of the adult male population of a village that tried to ambush his convoy.  They were legally found guilty after a trial, and their execution was appropriate for their crime.  Saddam did nothing illegal, ever.


The invasion was legal

The Un does not decide such matters.

Saddam did many illegal things and was legally executed according to the laws of Iraq


----------



## Rigby5

task0778 said:


> Such laws, if they exist, are the result of discrimination that you find in other countries around the world, such as China.  Do you want to claim China is a buncha Nazis?  Sounds more like laws that progressive liberal democrats want in this country.



Yes, China is a bunch of Nazis now when you look at things like how they treat the Uyghurs.
Ethnic discrimination is bad.
Obviously.
The Ukraine is one of the worst.
That is why they manned most of Hitler's death camps in WWII.


----------



## sartre play

Uncensored2008 said:


> Correct.
> 
> Porter McConnell was/is part and party to the Hunter Biden, Chris Heinz (John Kerry), Paul Pelosi Jr. embezzlement gang.
> 
> Corruption, it turns out, is a bi-partisan effort.


AGREE that corruption is a bi-partisan effort, people tend to pick & choose those they name as evil based on political party preference, as apposed to looking for the truth.


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> Once Reagan got into power, it was effected by US policies, so then it WAS a treaty.
> Just illegal and secret.
> Treaties can often be secret and illegal, like the Molotov/Ribbentrop division of Poland.


No it was not a treaty aty all.

Treaties are never secret. They are public formal agreements. Any old interactions hetween to governnments does not define a treaty.

Ukraine violated no treaty at all


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> Yes, China is a bunch of Nazis now when you look at things like how they treat the Uyghurs.
> Ethnic discrimination is bad.
> Obviously.
> The Ukraine is one of the worst.
> That is why they manned most of Hitler's death camps in WWII.


The Ukranians did NOT man most of the death camps and china is a communist nation


----------



## Rigby5

AntonToo said:


> Dumbass, not everything good or bad is Nazism.
> 
> If US gets rid of ESL classes that would be bad policy, *but that doesn't mean that we are somehow Nazis*.
> 
> Is that a concept too complicated for your tiny partisan squirrel brain?



But extreme nationalism and racism in order to advantage the wealthy elite IS Nazi, and fits the Ukraine perfectly.


----------



## Rigby5

AntonToo said:


> There is no fallacy in saying that there could be disagreement on good policy without one side being Nazis automatically.
> 
> You are just too fucking stupid to admit such simple facts.



But clearly the Ukraine has nothing to do with "good policy".
If they were not totally corrupt as a nation, then Hunter Biden and Burisma Holdings would have already been prosecuted for the obvious crimes.
The blatant discrimination and outright murder of ethnic Russians by the Azov Battalion is clearly Nazi.


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> 
> {...
> "*Withering away of the state*" is a Marxist concept coined by Friedrich Engels referring to the idea that, with the realization of socialism, the social institution of a state will eventually become obsolete and disappear as the society will be able to govern itself without the state and its coercive enforcement of the law.
> ...}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Withering away of the state - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both Marx and Engles were clear that they belief that capitalist greed was the fault of the corrupt wealthy elite, and that once there was justice, that inherent generosity of people would take over and make government force totally unnecessary.
> 
> The phrase, "dictatorship of the proletariat" means very specifically, a democratic republic, based on cooperation.
> It means the exact opposite of what you claim, a centralized authoritarian dictatorship.
> The proletariat is the masses.
> A dictatorship of the masses IS a democratic republic.


Yes and Marx clearly said that the withering away of the state would occur after the rule of the Dictatorship of the proletariate. The state which would wither away IS THE precisely that dictator..


The dictatorship of the proletaiate means a violent despotic dictator or group of dictators who would rule with absolute authority.

It does not mean democracy or a republic.

You cannot cite any passage from Marx or engels where they qualify the dictatorship as anything you are claiming

They called for despotism and dictatorship and never for democracy that is FACT


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> The Ukraine was specifically prohibited from joining alliances hostile to Russia.


Bullshit!  Cite your source!


----------



## Uncensored2008

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> 
> {...
> "*Withering away of the state*" is a Marxist concept coined by Friedrich Engels referring to the idea that, with the realization of socialism, the social institution of a state will eventually become obsolete and disappear as the society will be able to govern itself without the state and its coercive enforcement of the law.
> ...}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Withering away of the state - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both Marx and Engles were clear that they belief that capitalist greed was the fault of the corrupt wealthy elite, and that once there was justice, that inherent generosity of people would take over and make government force totally unnecessary.
> 
> The phrase, "dictatorship of the proletariat" means very specifically, a democratic republic, based on cooperation.
> It means the exact opposite of what you claim, a centralized authoritarian dictatorship.
> The proletariat is the masses.
> A dictatorship of the masses IS a democratic republic.



You're so full of shit.

Dictatorship of the proletarians is exactly that, dictatorship. The middle class, whom Marx called "bourgeoisie" were excluded from voting or any sort of inclusion in governance. 

You lie because "dictatorship" doesn't poll well.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Rigby5 said:


> False.
> Read Article II, Paragraph 4.
> I can't quote it directly, as the pdf does not allow copy/paste to this post.
> 
> 
> https://legal.un.org/avl/pdf/ls/wood_article.pdf
> 
> 
> But the whole POINT of the UN is to make war illegal, except in immediate defense or as approved by the UN.


That is an article from the Indian Law Journal.


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> So then the fact the illegal US embargo that prevented Venezuela from selling oil, had NO effect on their economy?


There was no illegal embargo or any embargo at all they could sell oil to anyone who wished to buy it


----------



## Rigby5

AntonToo said:


> *Pure bullshit.*
> 
> Zelensky's first language is Russian and he speaks it fluently.
> 
> How do you even have the gull to post such blatant falsehoods?



Anyone not acknowledging the wide spread discrimination against ethnic Russians in the Ukraine, would have to be lying.  It is notorious.

{...
Ukraine is a multi-ethnic country that was formerly part of the Soviet Union.[1][2][3] Valeriy Govgalenko argues that racism and ethnic discrimination has arguably been a largely fringe issue in the past, but has had a climb in social influence due to ultra-nationalist parties gaining attention in recent years.[4] There have been recorded incidents of violence where the victim's race is widely thought to have played a role, these incidents receive extensive media coverage and are usually condemned by all mainstream political forces.[5] Human Rights Watch reported that "racism and xenophobia remain entrenched problems in Ukraine".[6] In 2012 the European Commission against Racism and Intolerance (ECRI) reported that "tolerance towards Jews, Russians and Romani appears to have significantly declined in Ukraine since 2000 and prejudices are also reflected in daily life against other groups, who experience problems in accessing goods and services".[7] From 2006 to 2008, 184 attacks and 12 racially motivated murders took place.[8] In 2009, no such murders were recorded, but 40 racial incidents of violence were reported.[8] It is worth considering that, according to Alexander Feldman, president of the Association of National and Cultural Unions of Ukraine, "People attacked on racial grounds do not report the incidents to the police and police often fail to classify such attacks as racially motivated and often write them off as domestic offence or hooliganism".[8]
A 2010 poll conducted by the Kuras Institute of Political and Ethnic Studies [uk] showed that some 70 percent of Ukrainians estimates the nation's attitude towards other ethnical minorities as ‘conflict’ and ‘tense’.[9]
...}








						Racism in Ukraine - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




The fact Zelensky was taught Russia first, does not mean he did not resent it and hold that against Russian speakers.
The fact Ukrainians may have been discriminated against under Stalin, does not excuse the racists and violent discrimination now by Kyiv against ethnic Russians.


----------



## Rigby5

Soupnazi630 said:


> The invasion was legal
> 
> The Un does not decide such matters.
> 
> Saddam did many illegal things and was legally executed according to the laws of Iraq



The UN was specifically created exactly to decide such matters.
It was supposed to end all wars of aggression by making them illegal.
Only defensive wars or those deemed necessary by the UN were legal after the UN charter is ratified.

Saddam did absolutely NOTHING even remotely illegal.
The invasion was claimed to be defensive, even though Saddam never threatened the US or had any means of threatening the US.
So the US totally lied.


----------



## Rigby5

Soupnazi630 said:


> No it was not a treaty aty all.
> 
> Treaties are never secret. They are public formal agreements. Any old interactions hetween to governnments does not define a treaty.
> 
> Ukraine violated no treaty at all



Treaties are almost always private.
You only make them public if you want to manipulate the public.
A treaty is a contract intended to benefit both parties.
The Ukraine wanted and was given independence.
All Russia asked in return was to not join alliances hostile to Russia.
Seems not only extremely fair, but evil for the Ukraine to deliberately violate like Kyiv did.


----------



## Rigby5

Soupnazi630 said:


> The Ukranians did NOT man most of the death camps and china is a communist nation



I already quoted many Holocaust survivor testimony saying 80% of the death camp guards were Ukrainian.
There is nothing remotely communist about China.


----------



## Rigby5

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> That is an article from the Indian Law Journal.



The whole point of the UN was to make aggressive war illegal.
The use of miliary force was then legally limited to defense, or according to UN vote.
Does not matter where you look it up.
The US congress ratified the UN charter, so it became US law.


----------



## Rigby5

Soupnazi630 said:


> There was no illegal embargo or any embargo at all they could sell oil to anyone who wished to buy it



The US embargo on oil is well documented.
It was worse than just a blockade might be because the US also prevented needed technology from getting to Venezuela to repair the steam equipment needed to process the thick tar sand oil that Venezuela produced.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Rigby5 said:


> But clearly the Ukraine has nothing to do with "good policy".
> If they were not totally corrupt as a nation, then Hunter Biden and Burisma Holdings would have already been prosecuted for the obvious crimes.
> The blatant discrimination and outright murder of ethnic Russians by the Azov Battalion is clearly Nazi.



You're right. Ukraine is corrupt top to botton.

But that's doesn't mean the even more corrupt Russians are an improvement.


----------



## Dissident

AntonToo said:


> ... to say that Ukraine mandating national language in their *PUBLIC *education system is proof that they are somehow a Nazis state is straight INSANE.


I repeat again and again – this isn’t about “mandating national language in Ukrainian public education system”.

Under Ukrainian laws, *different ethnic groups have different rights in Ukraine* - for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars have more rights to use their native language – the Tatar language – during the education in public schools; ethnic Hungarians have less rights than Crimean Tatars to use their native language – the Hungarian – during the education in public schools; and ethnic Russians have less rights to use their native language – the Russian - than Hungarians. 

And I ask the same question again and again
Aren’t the laws, which divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, the Nazi laws?


----------



## Rigby5

AntonToo said:


> You don't have a *RIGHT* to be taught in foreign language.
> 
> Private schools in Ukraine can teach in any language they want and to say that Ukraine mandating national language in their *PUBLIC *education system is proof that they are somehow a Nazis state is straight INSANE.
> 
> Any desperate for pretext idiot can grab a certain narrow law in of ANY country and use that to claim that the country is Nazi. It's pure bullshit.



Wrong.
In places where the local ethnic language differs, then that language should be used in the public schools.
That is the same argument used to destroy native American cultures with forced English only boarding schools.
The deliberate discrimination against any ethnic culture is Nazi, based on attempts to homogenize culture.


----------



## Rigby5

Uncensored2008 said:


> You mean like if California were to create a treaty with Mexico as a "sanctuary state?"
> 
> 
> In 1955 there was no "Russian Federation."
> 
> You need to lie less.


Wrong.
The USSR was a Russian federation.
It was created by Russia, and it reserved national actions to the USSR leadership in Moscow.
The Russian federation did not end until 1991, by Gorbachev.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> The USSR was a Russian federation.
> It was created by Russia, and it reserved national actions to the USSR leadership in Moscow.
> The Russian federation did not end until 1991, by Gorbachev.



You are so full of shit that no one can take you seriously.


----------



## Rigby5

Uncensored2008 said:


> You're right. Ukraine is corrupt top to botton.
> 
> But that's doesn't mean the even more corrupt Russians are an improvement.



Whether or not Russia is more corrupt than the Ukraine, would require more time than I care to devote.
But the point is that clearly the Ukraine is extremely harmful to the provinces that are majority ethnic Russia, so they have the right to leave the Ukraine.


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> The UN was specifically created exactly to decide such matters.
> It was supposed to end all wars of aggression by making them illegal.
> Only defensive wars or those deemed necessary by the UN were legal after the UN charter is ratified.
> 
> Saddam did absolutely NOTHING even remotely illegal.
> The invasion was claimed to be defensive, even though Saddam never threatened the US or had any means of threatening the US.
> So the US totally lied.



The Un is meaningless and a toll they do not override or supercede US law


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> The US embargo on oil is well documented.
> It was worse than just a blockade might be because the US also prevented needed technology from getting to Venezuela to repair the steam equipment needed to process the thick tar sand oil that Venezuela produced.


No it is not.

they were free to sell to whom ever wished to buy it.

No one prevented any such thing the owners simply cbhose not to give assistance to thieves.


----------



## Rigby5

Uncensored2008 said:


> You are so full of shit that no one can take you seriously.



What a federation is has long been defined.
The US is a federation for example.
Small countries often join federations so they save money or gain security, but then they give up some autonomy.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Rigby5 said:


> Whether or not Russia is more corrupt than the Ukraine, would require more time than I care to devote.
> But the point is that clearly the Ukraine is extremely harmful to the provinces that are majority ethnic Russia, so they have the right to leave the Ukraine.



The Russians do, not the regions. 

Stalin waged genocide on Ukraine and brought in replacements who were Russian.

Fuck them, they can return to Russia if they don't like being Ukranian.


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> I already quoted many Holocaust survivor testimony saying 80% of the death camp guards were Ukrainian.
> There is nothing remotely communist about China.


No you did not. You are a bald faced liar

Yes China is a communist nation.


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> Treaties are almost always private.
> You only make them public if you want to manipulate the public.
> A treaty is a contract intended to benefit both parties.
> The Ukraine wanted and was given independence.
> All Russia asked in return was to not join alliances hostile to Russia.
> Seems not only extremely fair, but evil for the Ukraine to deliberately violate like Kyiv did.


They are never private.

Ukraine violated no treaty.


----------



## Rigby5

Soupnazi630 said:


> The Un is meaningless and a toll they do not override or supercede US law



Wrong.
The point again is that Congress voted on and ratified the UN Charter into US law.
So when the UN rules against some action by the US, that does NOT override or supercede US law.
It has become part of US law.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Rigby5 said:


> What a federation is has long been defined.
> The US is a federation for example.
> Small countries often join federations so they save money or gain security, but then they give up some autonomy.



The Russian Federation is a nation formed AFTER the collapse of the Imperialist Soviet Dictatorship fell.

The USSR and Russian Federation are two distinctly different entities. Boris Yeltsin is a hero, Vladimir Lenin one of the most evil tyrants in the history of the planet.


----------



## Rigby5

Soupnazi630 said:


> No it is not.
> 
> they were free to sell to whom ever wished to buy it.
> 
> No one prevented any such thing the owners simply cbhose not to give assistance to thieves.



Wrong.

{...
Rights Action forwards this article about illegal and harmful U.S. sanctions against Venezuela.

Following the US lead, Canada has illegal sanctions against Venezuela. Both the US and Canada have illegal sanctions against Nicaragua also, …

… even as the US and Canada maintain full political, economic, military relations with corrupt, violent, military-backed, ‘open-for-global-business’ regimes in Honduras, Guatemala, Haiti and beyond.

This is imperialism. These are illegal, harmful US and Canadian policies and actions. It remains the responsibility of US and Canadian citizens, our courts, political bodies and media, to expose and help put an end to this global imperialist bullying.
...}








						Illegal, harmful US (& Canadian) sanctions against Venezuela (& Nicaragua) — Rights Action
					

Rights Action forwards this article about illegal and harmful U.S. sanctions against Venezuela.   Following the US lead, Canada has illegal sanctions against Venezuela. Both the US and Canada have illegal sanctions against Nicaragua also, …   … even as the US and Canada maintain full political, econ




					rightsaction.org
				




Any use of force to prevent any civilian commerce is totally illegal and a war crime according to the 1906 Geneva Convention.  If a US citizen tries to buy oil from Venezuela, force will be used against them illegally.


----------



## Rigby5

Soupnazi630 said:


> No you did not. You are a bald faced liar
> 
> Yes China is a communist nation.








						Dec 2009: Ukrainian guards worse than Nazis, survivor says
					

MUNICH, Germany — A survivor of the Sobibor death camp testified that Ukrainian guards in Nazi-occupied Poland were worse than the Nazis’ infamous paramilitary SS as he recalled his experi...



					www.winnipegfreepress.com
				



{...
Ukrainian guards worse than Nazis, survivor says​By: Geir Moulson
Posted: *1:00 AM CST Wednesday, Dec. 23, 2009*

MUNICH, Germany -- A survivor of the Sobibor death camp testified that Ukrainian guards in Nazi-occupied Poland were worse than the Nazis' infamous paramilitary SS as he recalled his experiences Tuesday at the trial of John Demjanjuk.
The Ukrainian-born Demjanjuk, a retired auto worker who was deported from the U.S. in May, is charged with 27,900 counts of accessory to murder for his alleged activities as a guard at Sobibor.

Jules Schelvis, an 88-year-old from the Netherlands, recalled being deported to Sobibor in 1943 along with his family. He told the Munich state court that he lost 18 relatives -- including his wife, Rachel -- at the camp.

Schelvis, one of dozens of victims' relatives who have joined the trial as co-plaintiffs, as allowed under German law, recounted his 72-hour journey from the Dutch transit camp of Westerbork in a cramped freight car, with no food and little water or fresh air.

"We were crammed in like herrings in a barrel," Schelvis testified.

At Sobibor, Schelvis recalled, the new arrivals were made to leave all their belongings in a hut before an SS man separated the men from the women, who "disappeared from view."

Another SS man selected strong young men -- including Schelvis' brother-in-law -- and the witness said he also was allowed to join the group after giving an assurance that he was healthy and spoke German.

The group was taken on a long drive and march from Sobibor to Dorohucza, where they were put to work digging up peat to serve as fuel, Schelvis said.

Schelvis said he first came across Ukrainian guards at Dorohucza. "We knew that the Ukrainian guards were worse than the SS," he told the court.

He said that, near Lublin, he saw two Ukrainian guards pass by with two Jewish prisoners.

"We heard shots, and they came back without the two men and with their clothes," he said. "Then we knew that they were worse than the others."
...}


----------



## Rigby5

Uncensored2008 said:


> The Russian Federation is a nation formed AFTER the collapse of the Imperialist Soviet Dictatorship fell.
> 
> The USSR and Russian Federation are two distinctly different entities. Boris Yeltsin is a hero, Vladimir Lenin one of the most evil tyrants in the history of the planet.



You seem to fail to notice the difference between when something is capitalized or not.
The USSR was a federation.  
What it is actually named does not matter.
Boris Yeltsin did not grant the Ukraine its independence, Gorbachev did.


----------



## Rigby5

AntonToo said:


> Dumbass, not everything good or bad is Nazism.
> 
> If US gets rid of ESL classes that would be bad policy, *but that doesn't mean that we are somehow Nazis*.
> 
> Is that a concept too complicated for your tiny partisan squirrel brain?



No one was ever talking about language classes.
You totally missed the point.


----------



## Rigby5

Uncensored2008 said:


> You're so full of shit.
> 
> Dictatorship of the proletarians is exactly that, dictatorship. The middle class, whom Marx called "bourgeoisie" were excluded from voting or any sort of inclusion in governance.
> 
> You lie because "dictatorship" doesn't poll well.



Wrong.
Democracy is often called a dictatorship of the majority.
You just are not at all following long standing definitions.
And the bourgeoisie was never excluded from voting.
They were just not the majority, so would not win any vote process.
All governments are dictatorships in that you can't appease all parties.
One opinion has to win and others lose.
Whether that is good of bad is determined by other things, like if the majority wins or not.
All governments are always dictatorships by definition.


----------



## Rigby5

Uncensored2008 said:


> The Russians do, not the regions.
> 
> Stalin waged genocide on Ukraine and brought in replacements who were Russian.
> 
> Fuck them, they can return to Russia if they don't like being Ukranian.



Wrong.
The regions belong to the long standing ethnic Russian inhabitants, and they go with their natives.
They were illegally given to the Ukraine in 1955 by the Ukrainian, Khrushchev.
That violated their inherent local autonomy.
They were there over 1000 years.
It is the Ukrainians who are the more recent immigrants and do not belong.


----------



## Dissident

task0778 said:


> Such laws, if they exist, are the result of discrimination...


OK
I have understood your opinion - there are no Nazi laws in Ukraine but maybe there are discriminating laws.
But why do your scholars say that "we stand united with free, independent and democratic Ukraine" in such a case (see here)?

*Can a democratic state have discriminating laws?*

I believe that your scholars know a lot about Nazism, genocide etc. but they know almost nothing about the present Ukraine.
These scholars – like you – only know the information which is provided by Western media.


----------



## task0778

Dissident said:


> Can a democratic state have discriminating laws?



Yes.  Doesn't make it right, but it happens.  Jim Crow laws for example.




Dissident said:


> I believe that your scholars know a lot about Nazism, genocide etc. but they know almost nothing about the present Ukraine.



I suspect they know as much or more than you do.




Dissident said:


> These scholars – like you – only know the information which is provided by Western media.



Whereas you know what Russia is telling you and we don't?  You're reading some obscure blog on the internet and accepting it at face value?



It could be that those 'NAZI Laws' you speak of are actually an attempt to protect the indigent people in Ukraine from being wiped out by the Russians that have migrated into some regions in Ukraine.


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Uncensored2008 said:


> Correct.
> 
> Porter McConnell was/is part and party to the Hunter Biden, Chris Heinz (John Kerry), Paul Pelosi Jr. embezzlement gang.
> 
> Corruption, it turns out, is a bi-partisan effort.



DC and Davos are epicenters of evil


----------



## AntonToo

Rigby5 said:


> Anyone not acknowledging the wide spread discrimination against ethnic Russians in the Ukraine, would have to be lying.  It is notorious.
> 
> {...
> Ukraine is a multi-ethnic country that was formerly part of the Soviet Union.[1][2][3] Valeriy Govgalenko argues that racism and ethnic discrimination has arguably been a largely fringe issue in the past, but has had a climb in social influence due to ultra-nationalist parties gaining attention in recent years.[4] There have been recorded incidents of violence where the victim's race is widely thought to have played a role, these incidents receive extensive media coverage and are usually condemned by all mainstream political forces.[5] Human Rights Watch reported that "racism and xenophobia remain entrenched problems in Ukraine".[6] In 2012 the European Commission against Racism and Intolerance (ECRI) reported that "tolerance towards Jews, Russians and Romani appears to have significantly declined in Ukraine since 2000 and prejudices are also reflected in daily life against other groups, who experience problems in accessing goods and services".[7] From 2006 to 2008, 184 attacks and 12 racially motivated murders took place.[8] In 2009, no such murders were recorded, but 40 racial incidents of violence were reported.[8] It is worth considering that, according to Alexander Feldman, president of the Association of National and Cultural Unions of Ukraine, "People attacked on racial grounds do not report the incidents to the police and police often fail to classify such attacks as racially motivated and often write them off as domestic offence or hooliganism".[8]
> A 2010 poll conducted by the Kuras Institute of Political and Ethnic Studies [uk] showed that some 70 percent of Ukrainians estimates the nation's attitude towards other ethnical minorities as ‘conflict’ and ‘tense’.[9]
> ...}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Racism in Ukraine - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact Zelensky was taught Russia first, does not mean he did not resent it and hold that against Russian speakers.
> The fact Ukrainians may have been discriminated against under Stalin, does not excuse the racists and violent discrimination now by Kyiv against ethnic Russians.



Moron you've said that Russian speakers can't vote or hold office in Ukraine.

Zelenskiy' first language is Russian, he speaks it fluently, just like many other Ukranian politicians and voters.

You don't refute that. So how about you admit that what you've said is bullshit? 

There is some descrimination that could be found in any country, but as a matter of law and practice Russian speakers can in fact vote and hold office in Ukraine.


----------



## Likkmee

g5000 said:


> So all you have is the Ukrainian language is taught to all students, comrade?  And that makes them Nazis?  BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!
> 
> Be careful.  There are a lot of Republicans who believe only English should be taught in our schools, too.  They demand English be made the official language of the US. Are they Nazis, comrade?


Maybe an unrelenting desire for operation paperclip ?


----------



## AntonToo

Dissident said:


> I repeat again and again – this isn’t about “mandating national language in Ukrainian public education system”.
> 
> Under Ukrainian laws, *different ethnic groups have different rights in Ukraine* - for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars have more rights to use their native language – the Tatar language – during the education in public schools; ethnic Hungarians have less rights than Crimean Tatars to use their native language – the Hungarian – during the education in public schools; and ethnic Russians have less rights to use their native language – the Russian - than Hungarians.
> 
> And I ask the same question again and again
> Aren’t the laws, which divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, the Nazi laws?



Don't quote my posts if you can't actually address what I said.

I'm not interested in you repeating same already refuted bullshit over and over.

Country using it's official language in schools is not Nazism. Your thesis is a laughable hyperbole in search of excuse for a bloody, illegal invasion of a sovereign country.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Dissident said:


> *I repeat again and again – this isn’t about “mandating national language in Ukrainian public education system”.*
> 
> Under Ukrainian laws, *different ethnic groups have different rights in Ukraine* - for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars have more rights to use their native language – the Tatar language – during the education in public schools; ethnic Hungarians have less rights than Crimean Tatars to use their native language – the Hungarian – during the education in public schools; and ethnic Russians have less rights to use their native language – the Russian - than Hungarians.
> 
> And I ask the same question again and again
> *Aren’t the laws, which divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, the Nazi laws?*



That is the law YOU fucking quoted, you G-D dumbass!

The answer to your question is NO!


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> The point again is that Congress voted on and ratified the UN Charter into US law.
> So when the UN rules against some action by the US, that does NOT override or supercede US law.
> It has become part of US law.


It is not law.


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dec 2009: Ukrainian guards worse than Nazis, survivor says
> 
> 
> MUNICH, Germany — A survivor of the Sobibor death camp testified that Ukrainian guards in Nazi-occupied Poland were worse than the Nazis’ infamous paramilitary SS as he recalled his experi...
> 
> 
> 
> www.winnipegfreepress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> {...
> Ukrainian guards worse than Nazis, survivor says​By: Geir Moulson
> Posted: *1:00 AM CST Wednesday, Dec. 23, 2009*
> 
> MUNICH, Germany -- A survivor of the Sobibor death camp testified that Ukrainian guards in Nazi-occupied Poland were worse than the Nazis' infamous paramilitary SS as he recalled his experiences Tuesday at the trial of John Demjanjuk.
> The Ukrainian-born Demjanjuk, a retired auto worker who was deported from the U.S. in May, is charged with 27,900 counts of accessory to murder for his alleged activities as a guard at Sobibor.
> 
> Jules Schelvis, an 88-year-old from the Netherlands, recalled being deported to Sobibor in 1943 along with his family. He told the Munich state court that he lost 18 relatives -- including his wife, Rachel -- at the camp.
> 
> Schelvis, one of dozens of victims' relatives who have joined the trial as co-plaintiffs, as allowed under German law, recounted his 72-hour journey from the Dutch transit camp of Westerbork in a cramped freight car, with no food and little water or fresh air.
> 
> "We were crammed in like herrings in a barrel," Schelvis testified.
> 
> At Sobibor, Schelvis recalled, the new arrivals were made to leave all their belongings in a hut before an SS man separated the men from the women, who "disappeared from view."
> 
> Another SS man selected strong young men -- including Schelvis' brother-in-law -- and the witness said he also was allowed to join the group after giving an assurance that he was healthy and spoke German.
> 
> The group was taken on a long drive and march from Sobibor to Dorohucza, where they were put to work digging up peat to serve as fuel, Schelvis said.
> 
> Schelvis said he first came across Ukrainian guards at Dorohucza. "We knew that the Ukrainian guards were worse than the SS," he told the court.
> 
> He said that, near Lublin, he saw two Ukrainian guards pass by with two Jewish prisoners.
> 
> "We heard shots, and they came back without the two men and with their clothes," he said. "Then we knew that they were worse than the others."
> ...}


That is one camp which is not reflective of all the camps.


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> Democracy is often called a dictatorship of the majority.
> You just are not at all following long standing definitions.
> And the bourgeoisie was never excluded from voting.
> They were just not the majority, so would not win any vote process.
> All governments are dictatorships in that you can't appease all parties.
> One opinion has to win and others lose.
> Whether that is good of bad is determined by other things, like if the majority wins or not.
> All governments are always dictatorships by definition.


I am following precise definitions you are in denial of relaity.

marx called for a DESPOTIC dictatorship with no DEMOCRACY RULIG THROUGH TERROR.

You are full of shit about all governments.

The dictatorship of the proletariate is not elected but merely an iron fisted dictator making Stalin a pure communist


----------



## Soupnazi630

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> 
> {...
> Rights Action forwards this article about illegal and harmful U.S. sanctions against Venezuela.
> 
> Following the US lead, Canada has illegal sanctions against Venezuela. Both the US and Canada have illegal sanctions against Nicaragua also, …
> 
> … even as the US and Canada maintain full political, economic, military relations with corrupt, violent, military-backed, ‘open-for-global-business’ regimes in Honduras, Guatemala, Haiti and beyond.
> 
> This is imperialism. These are illegal, harmful US and Canadian policies and actions. It remains the responsibility of US and Canadian citizens, our courts, political bodies and media, to expose and help put an end to this global imperialist bullying.
> ...}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal, harmful US (& Canadian) sanctions against Venezuela (& Nicaragua) — Rights Action
> 
> 
> Rights Action forwards this article about illegal and harmful U.S. sanctions against Venezuela.   Following the US lead, Canada has illegal sanctions against Venezuela. Both the US and Canada have illegal sanctions against Nicaragua also, …   … even as the US and Canada maintain full political, econ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightsaction.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any use of force to prevent any civilian commerce is totally illegal and a war crime according to the 1906 Geneva Convention.  If a US citizen tries to buy oil from Venezuela, force will be used against them illegally.


Sanctions are not an embargo.

They are legal.


----------



## Dissident

task0778 said:


> *Dissident said: *
> Can a democratic state have discriminating laws?
> 
> Yes.  Doesn't make it right, but it happens.  Jim Crow laws for example.


Wrong.
Please read in Wikipedia that «*Cornerstones of democracy include … equality…*», see here.
Therefore, when there is inequality/discrimination in a state, this state isn’t a democratic state any more.



task0778 said:


> *Dissident said: *
> These scholars – like you – only know the information which is provided by Western media.
> 
> Whereas you know what Russia is telling you and we don't?


Not at all.
I never referred to a Russian media in this thread.
To know, what is going on in Ukraine, one should read Ukrainian laws and statements of Ukrainian rulers – the statements which these rulers make in Ukraine, not abroad.
Knowledge of the Ukrainian laws and statements of Ukrainian rulers is enough to understand that *many things are terribly wrong with this country*.



task0778 said:


> It could be that those 'NAZI Laws' you speak of are actually an attempt to protect the indigent people in Ukraine from being wiped out by the Russians that have migrated into some regions in Ukraine.


All Nazi laws of the Hitler’s Germany *ALWAYS *protected or defended something. For example, the Law for the *PROTECTION* of German Blood and German Honour, please see Wikipedia.


----------



## Litwin

Dissident said:


> April


ivan, how many chechen dick did you suck off today ? go back to you RT .ru you mongol


----------



## task0778

Dissident said:


> Please read in Wikipedia that «*Cornerstones of democracy include … equality…*», see here.
> Therefore, when there is inequality/discrimination in a state, this state isn’t a democratic state any more.



Absolute and total bullshit.  Inequality and discrimination have existed everywhere since the dawn of civilization.





Dissident said:


> Knowledge of the Ukrainian laws and statements of Ukrainian rulers is enough to understand that *many things are terribly wrong with this country*.



No doubt, but is beside the point.  Which is, the West should not allow the naked acquisition of territory through Russian military intervention and invasion.  Yes, there are a lot of things wrong in Ukraine but that doesn't give Russia the right to invade it.





Dissident said:


> All Nazi laws of the Hitler’s Germany *ALWAYS *protected or defended something. For example, the Law for the *PROTECTION* of German Blood and German Honour, please see Wikipedia.



I don't give a flyin' fuck what went on in Hitler's Germany almost 100 years ago.  Until Ukraine starts to become a danger to other countries in the region, it's a sovereign nation with the right to conduct their business as they see fit.  So far, they have done nothing to warrant a war against them.


----------



## Dissident

AntonToo said:


> I'm not interested in...
> 
> Country using it's official language in schools is not Nazism.


It doesn’t matter for me what you are interested in.

I am absolutely sure that you understand very well that this isn’t about “country using it's official language in schools” but about *division of citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights*.

You are just pretending that you don’t understand it.

And as long as you repeat about “country using it's official language in schools” I shall repeat what I earlier have already said to you.

Therefore, relax and read the text below. It has been *your* decision – to pretend here instead of discussing important issues.


> *Dissident said: *
> I repeat again and again – this isn’t about mandating national language in Ukrainian public education system.
> Under Ukrainian laws, *different ethnic groups have different rights in Ukraine *- for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars have more rights to use their native language – the Tatar language – during the education in public schools; ethnic Hungarians have less rights than Crimean Tatars to use their native language – the Hungarian – during the education in public schools; and ethnic Russians have less rights to use their native language – the Russian - than Hungarians.


 https://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/why-do-the-u-s-support-ukraine-which-has-nazi-laws.966582/page-17#post-29615351


----------



## Dissident

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> That is the law YOU...


You make me repeat the same things again and again. Please read the text below - especially the sentence which is marked by blue color.



> *Dissident said: *
> It’s a lie. You didn’t answer my questions.
> 
> You said that the Ukrainian laws, which are discussed, aren’t Nazi laws. But you refused to answer both of my further questions, i.e. the question “How would you personally call such laws then?” and the question “Would you personally like to be a citizen of a country which has such laws?”; see here.
> 
> It makes no sense to discuss anything with a person who - like you – lies and refuses to answer questions relating to object of discussion.
> 
> https://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/why-do-the-u-s-support-ukraine-which-has-nazi-laws.966582/page-10#post-29607845


----------



## AntonToo

Dissident said:


> It doesn’t matter for me what you are interested in.
> 
> I am absolutely sure that you understand very well that this isn’t about “country using it's official language in schools” but about *division of citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights*.
> 
> You are just pretending that you don’t understand it.
> 
> And as long as you repeat about “country using it's official language in schools” I shall repeat what I earlier have already said to you.
> 
> Therefore, relax and read the text below. It has been *your* decision – to pretend here instead of discussing important issues.
> 
> https://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/why-do-the-u-s-support-ukraine-which-has-nazi-laws.966582/page-17#post-29615351



There is nothing "dividing" about Ukranians learning in Ukranian in public schools.

Just as there is nothing dividing about learning in Russian in Russian schools.

Russian tools like you just need some bullshit excuses to be able to look in the mirror for supporting the atrocity Russians brought to Ukraine.


----------



## Ringo

With english subs.


----------



## Ringo

*Fascism is contagious!*


----------



## AntonToo

Ringo said:


> *Fascism is contagious!*



Ironic that YOU, a shameless shill for this bloody Russian invasion are saying that.


----------



## Ringo

AntonToo said:


> Ironic that YOU, a shameless shill for this bloody Russian invasion are saying that.


Interestingly, the leadership of modern fascist Ukraine says the same thing about the liberation of Ukraine from German invaders during World War II - namely, "the USSR invaded Ukraine" 
Fascists of all countries think the same way


----------



## Dissident

AntonToo said:


> There is nothing "dividing" about Ukranians learning in Ukranian in public schools.
> 
> Just as there is nothing dividing about learning in Russian in Russian schools.


You repeat the same things again and again.
But by doing that, you make me answer to you the same things again and again. Please read the text below.



> *Dissident said: *
> I repeat again and again – this isn’t about mandating national language in Ukrainian public education system.
> 
> Under Ukrainian laws, *different ethnic groups have different rights in Ukraine* - for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars have more rights to use their native language – the Tatar language – during the education in public schools; ethnic Hungarians have less rights than Crimean Tatars to use their native language – the Hungarian – during the education in public schools; and ethnic Russians have less rights to use their native language – the Russian - than Hungarians.


 https://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/why-do-the-u-s-support-ukraine-which-has-nazi-laws.966582/page-17#post-29615351


----------



## Dissident

task0778 said:


> Absolute and total bullshit.  Inequality and discrimination have existed everywhere since the dawn of civilization.


It makes no sense to discuss Ukrainian laws – and to discuss anything else – with a person who denies that equality is one of cornerstones of democracy (see Wikipedia).

By denying that, you deny the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen (see here), Universal Declaration of Human Rights (see here) and in general, *the whole foundation on which the modern world is build*.



task0778 said:


> Until Ukraine starts to become a danger to other countries in the region, it's a sovereign nation with the right to conduct their business as they see fit.  So far, they have done nothing to warrant a war against them.


It could be the next question – Is Ukraine with its Nazi policy a danger to other countries in the region?

But this question should be discussed if the question “Has Ukraine the Nazi laws?” is answered in the affirmative.

However, it makes no sense to discuss it with *you *because – I repeat - it makes no sense to discuss anything with a person who denies the whole foundation on which the modern world is build.


----------



## Ringo

Dissident said:


> It could be the next question – Is Ukraine with its Nazi policy a danger to other countries in the region?


Ukraine from the beginning of its existence was meant as "Not Russia" with a tendency to "Anti-Russia"


----------



## task0778

Dissident said:


> It makes no sense to discuss Ukrainian laws – and to discuss anything else – with a person who denies that equality is one of cornerstones of democracy (see Wikipedia).
> 
> By denying that, you deny the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen (see here), Universal Declaration of Human Rights (see here) and in general, *the whole foundation on which the modern world is build*.
> 
> 
> It could be the next question – Is Ukraine with its Nazi policy a danger to other countries in the region?
> 
> But this question should be discussed if the question “Has Ukraine the Nazi laws?” is answered in the affirmative.
> 
> However, it makes no sense to discuss it with *you *because – I repeat - it makes no sense to discuss anything with a person who denies the whole foundation on which the modern world is build.




It doesn't make sense to discuss anything with someone who denies reality.  Which is you.  Have a nice day.


----------



## Ringo

RIP property rights. 
This sends a message to all nations out there: if you own something in Europe, it's entirely conditional to you being in their good graces.


----------



## Dissident

task0778 said:


> It doesn't make sense to discuss anything with someone who denies reality.  Which is you.


I deny *your* reality because in your reality, Ukraine is a democratic state.

But in *my* reality, Ukraine isn’t a democratic state.
Because in my reality, Ukraine is a state *whose laws divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights*.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Dissident said:


> I deny *your* reality because in your reality, Ukraine is a democratic state.
> 
> But in *my* reality, Ukraine isn’t a democratic state.
> Because in my reality, Ukraine is a state *whose laws divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights*.


Bullshit.  Today's Ukraine is a liberal democracy.  Just more of Putin's lies.


----------



## Ringo

The chief tattoo artist of "Azov" said that the tattoos of "Azov" members can not be nazi, because the tattoo artist himself is a jew.


----------



## AntonToo

Ringo said:


> The chief tattoo artist of "Azov" said that the tattoos of "Azov" members can not be nazi, because the tattoo artist himself is a jew.



Which country does not have a handful of people with Nazi tattoos?

Shall we go over Russian Nazis?









						Putin’s fascists: the Russian state's long history of cultivating homegrown neo-Nazis
					

While Russian President Vladimir Putin has made the absurd claim to be waging war to “de-nazify” Ukraine, his regime has a long record of collaboration with far-right extremists.




					theconversation.com


----------



## Ringo

AntonToo said:


> Which country does not have a handful of people with Nazi tattoos?


Handful? The most combat-ready and motivated by nazi ideology *state* army units of fascist Ukraine are _handful_?  Go fuk yourself, moron.


----------



## AntonToo

Ringo said:


> Handful? The most combat-ready and motivated by nazi ideology *state* army units of fascist Ukraine are _handful_?  Go fuk yourself, moron.



Yes a handful. Before the war started Azov Battalion had about 1000 members, with 20% or so identifying as neo-Nazis.

And these are not government members we are talking about, these just militia.

This is what you think justifies a bloody invasion??


----------



## Ringo

https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/___schizoid/7037145/10701/10701_original.gif


----------



## Dissident

toomuchtime_ said:


> Bullshit.  Today's Ukraine is a liberal democracy.


Please read the article which deals with the Ukrainian so-called “democracy” and “liberalism”.

And please answer the question below.
Aren’t the laws, which divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, the Nazi laws?


----------



## surada

easyt65 said:


> Like Democrats...


Hitler purged the German government of socialists, communists, Democrats and Jews in 1933.


----------



## Ringo

It’s time to be realistic about the war in Ukraine​








						It’s time to be realistic about the war in Ukraine | Mary Dejevksy
					

Any resolution will proceed from facts on the ground as they are, not as we would wish they were, writes Mary Dejevsky




					www.independent.co.uk
				




Have you noticed how we no longer wake up to news of the latest victories for heroic Ukrainians or the latest setbacks for savage Russians? How President Volodymyr Zelensky’s rallying calls – including his latest to the plutocrats in Davos – command a lot less of our airtime than they did?...


----------



## toomuchtime_

Dissident said:


> Please read the article which deals with the Ukrainian so-called “democracy” and “liberalism”.
> 
> And please answer the question below.
> Aren’t the laws, which divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, the Nazi laws?


The article is garbage and there are no laws in Ukraine today that discriminate against any groups because of ethnic origins.  Every country, including Russia has neo nazis.  Putin is trying to associate WWII with the invasion of Ukraine by falsely claiming Ukrainian neo nazis are threatening Russia just as the Nazis did in WWII.  It is a bizarre lie and Russian neo nazis are fighting alongside the Russian army in Ukraine









						Russian Neo-Nazis Participate in ‘Denazifying’ Ukraine – Der Spiegel - The Moscow Times
					

The groups are thought to have participated in the war between pro-Russia separatists and Kyiv in eastern Ukraine in 2014.




					www.themoscowtimes.com
				












						Who Are The Neo-Nazis Fighting For Russia In Ukraine?
					

The Kremlin has claimed its war on Ukraine is aimed at “de-Nazifying” the country. What about the neo-Nazi groups actively fighting on the Russian side?




					www.rferl.org
				












						Putin's 'de-Nazify' claims in Ukraine obscure his Nazi problem at home
					

Some neo-Nazis in Russia appear to sympathize with Ukrainians and Putin's threats to their independence.



					www.usatoday.com
				




And there are many, many more articles that point out just how stupid and crazy Putin's nazi bs is and just how stupid and crazy the Russian people are to believe it.


----------



## Ringo




----------



## Ringo




----------



## Ringo

The United States is provoking a food crisis in Ukraine by depriving it of grain reserves - Zakharova

Well, the weapons doesn't come for free...


----------



## toomuchtime_

Ringo said:


> It’s time to be realistic about the war in Ukraine​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It’s time to be realistic about the war in Ukraine | Mary Dejevksy
> 
> 
> Any resolution will proceed from facts on the ground as they are, not as we would wish they were, writes Mary Dejevsky
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you noticed how we no longer wake up to news of the latest victories for heroic Ukrainians or the latest setbacks for savage Russians? How President Volodymyr Zelensky’s rallying calls – including his latest to the plutocrats in Davos – command a lot less of our airtime than they did?...


Just how desperate can you get?  The world is not forgetting about Putin's crimes.  At the World Economic  Forun, to which Russia was not invited, the hub where Russia used to organize its delegation has been turned into a museum depicting Russian atrocities in Ukraine.  

What you are observing is that the war in Ukraine and the world's condemnation of Putin's Russia is now Russia's new normal.  Russia will continue to try to hold on to the land it now controls in Occupied Ukraine and the Ukrainians will continue to attack all targets in Occupied Ukraine.  

The sanctions will continue to increase, more and better weapons will be sent to Ukraine so that no place in Occupied Ukraine will be safe for Russians.  Russia will continue to lose soldiers and equipment at an alarming rate and the war will continue until Russia finally realizes the cost of the war is unsustainable and withdraws from Ukraine.


----------



## surada

Confederate Soldier said:


> What planet are you from?
> 
> 
> 
> NAZI means Nationalist Socialist, a kind of socialism where industry is nationalized, and fanatic Nationalism is the norm. It's Socialism with racial and national pride are front and center. That's not Ukraine.


Hitler didn't nationalize any German companies. He broke with the democratic socialists in 1926. He just used them to get his foot in the door.


----------



## Ringo

toomuchtime_ said:


> Russia will continue to lose soldiers and equipment at an alarming rate


and ukrainians will continue to die for the profits of american companies producing weapons.
 What a scum you are...


----------



## toomuchtime_

Ringo said:


> and ukrainians will continue to die for the profits of american companies producing weapons.
> What a scum you are...


Give it up.  Putin's dreams of a new Russian empire dies in Ukraine.


----------



## Ringo

toomuchtime_ said:


> Give it up.  Putin's dreams of a new Russian empire dies in Ukraine.


From a conversation with the ex-commander of the Airborne Troops of Russia, Colonel-General Georgy Shpak:

 "...Look, we are not fighting a war. A special military operation is underway, not all of our armed forces are involved in it, but only a part of them. Mobilization has not been announced. Only contract servicemen and volunteers are on the front line. Missiles and shells are enough and will be enough until the end of hostilities, no matter how long they last.

— And how long do you think they can continue in Ukraine?

— Only they themselves know about the plans, the Supreme Commander-in-Chief and the Minister of Defense. I retired, I'm not sitting in a dugout at the front, but at home, so I can only express my personal opinion. I study the map of Ukraine, analyze the information. I think it's not worth dreaming about an early victory. It will take time to defeat a well-prepared and armed enemy, such as the Armed Forces of Ukraine are today. Unless, of course, some drastic political decisions are made.

— TV experts and couch analysts, meanwhile, are full of optimism: after the complete liberation of Mariupol, after the approach of the allied troops of Russia, the DPR and the LPR to Severodonetsk and Lisichansk, they tell us, a turning point has occurred in the minds of ukrainian soldiers, and now they will surrender en masse and surrender the borders. Do you agree?

— It has been said for a long time: the further away from the front, the more heroes. There is no need to wait for rapid military successes in Ukraine. At the first stage of the special operation, we learned a lesson: this country, perfectly prepared by the West for war and soaked in the poison of fascist ideology, cannot be taken by a rush. America and Europe continue to supply Ukraine with weapons and ammunition and will continue to supply. The West benefits from a long war, they still hope to exhaust and weaken Russia.

Besides, we should not forget that people like us are fighting against us: Slavs, Ukrainians and Russians. They have only turned their brains sideways in the last eight years, but they are as brave and persistent as our soldiers. They have competent commanders. All the more honor to the Russian army and the Donbass militia, who defeat such a strong enemy.

— Now we have completely finished underestimating the enemy?

- Yes. Correct conclusions have been drawn. Calmly, methodically, trying not to lose soldiers and protect civilians, our army is moving forward. The tactics chosen are correct. But it does not provide for quick wins. The main problem is cities. It is already obvious that when conducting defensive actions in them, the enemy uses the tactics of the german fascists, which they used in the last century. The soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine occupy the upper floors of high-rise buildings, and at the bottom they keep the civilian population, they hide behind them. Also, large industrial enterprises are turning into real fortresses. But we also switched to the method of urban combat during the Great Patriotic War: we operate with mobile assault groups with point support of tanks and artillery. Our guys have to destroy the enemy with high accuracy, and there will be many more cities on the way of our troops, so this work will take a long time.

— Again, your personal opinion: where should our troops stop? At the borders of the People's Republics of Donbass plus Kherson and part of the Zaporozhye region? Along the Dnieper? Outside Poland?

— If there is at least one square meter of land left under the rule of the current Kiev regime, it will immediately be stuffed with weapons, and from there they will start shooting at Russia, at russians. This fascist stuff is like a cancerous tumor: it can spread further and further. It must be destroyed to the end.

— And if there is a new surge of Bandera movement in the western regions?

— The Soviet Union has done away with it, Russia will also do away with it. We have nowhere to go. We are fighting fascism, and not only ukrainian, for life and death. Either we are beat them, or they are will beat us. The truth is on our side. We will win, but we must have courage and patience..."


----------



## toomuchtime_

Ringo said:


> From a conversation with the ex-commander of the Airborne Troops of Russia, Colonel-General Georgy Shpak:
> 
> "...Look, we are not fighting a war. A special military operation is underway, not all of our armed forces are involved in it, but only a part of them. Mobilization has not been announced. Only contract servicemen and volunteers are on the front line. Missiles and shells are enough and will be enough until the end of hostilities, no matter how long they last.
> 
> — And how long do you think they can continue in Ukraine?
> 
> — Only they themselves know about the plans, the Supreme Commander-in-Chief and the Minister of Defense. I retired, I'm not sitting in a dugout at the front, but at home, so I can only express my personal opinion. I study the map of Ukraine, analyze the information. I think it's not worth dreaming about an early victory. It will take time to defeat a well-prepared and armed enemy, such as the Armed Forces of Ukraine are today. Unless, of course, some drastic political decisions are made.
> 
> — TV experts and couch analysts, meanwhile, are full of optimism: after the complete liberation of Mariupol, after the approach of the allied troops of Russia, the DPR and the LPR to Severodonetsk and Lisichansk, they tell us, a turning point has occurred in the minds of ukrainian soldiers, and now they will surrender en masse and surrender the borders. Do you agree?
> 
> — It has been said for a long time: the further away from the front, the more heroes. There is no need to wait for rapid military successes in Ukraine. At the first stage of the special operation, we learned a lesson: this country, perfectly prepared by the West for war and soaked in the poison of fascist ideology, cannot be taken by a rush. America and Europe continue to supply Ukraine with weapons and ammunition and will continue to supply. The West benefits from a long war, they still hope to exhaust and weaken Russia.
> 
> Besides, we should not forget that people like us are fighting against us: Slavs, Ukrainians and Russians. They have only turned their brains sideways in the last eight years, but they are as brave and persistent as our soldiers. They have competent commanders. All the more honor to the Russian army and the Donbass militia, who defeat such a strong enemy.
> 
> — Now we have completely finished underestimating the enemy?
> 
> - Yes. Correct conclusions have been drawn. Calmly, methodically, trying not to lose soldiers and protect civilians, our army is moving forward. The tactics chosen are correct. But it does not provide for quick wins. The main problem is cities. It is already obvious that when conducting defensive actions in them, the enemy uses the tactics of the german fascists, which they used in the last century. The soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine occupy the upper floors of high-rise buildings, and at the bottom they keep the civilian population, they hide behind them. Also, large industrial enterprises are turning into real fortresses. But we also switched to the method of urban combat during the Great Patriotic War: we operate with mobile assault groups with point support of tanks and artillery. Our guys have to destroy the enemy with high accuracy, and there will be many more cities on the way of our troops, so this work will take a long time.
> 
> — Again, your personal opinion: where should our troops stop? At the borders of the People's Republics of Donbass plus Kherson and part of the Zaporozhye region? Along the Dnieper? Outside Poland?
> 
> — If there is at least one square meter of land left under the rule of the current Kiev regime, it will immediately be stuffed with weapons, and from there they will start shooting at Russia, at russians. This fascist stuff is like a cancerous tumor: it can spread further and further. It must be destroyed to the end.
> 
> — And if there is a new surge of Bandera movement in the western regions?
> 
> — The Soviet Union has done away with it, Russia will also do away with it. We have nowhere to go. We are fighting fascism, and not only ukrainian, for life and death. Either we are beat them, or they are will beat us. The truth is on our side. We will win, but we must have courage and patience..."


Despite the General's ignorance of the political situation, he is right about two things: the war will not end and it will weaken Russia; it already is weakening Russia.  

On the other hand, the General may not be as stupid as he sounds; after all, in Russia if he openly disagrees with Putin he will go to prison or worse.  So at this point, no one knows what the General really thinks.


----------



## surada

Rigby5 said:


> Sounds not as bad as the money laundering Hunter Biden did?


Hunter Biden is not involved in money laundering.


----------



## Ringo

A runaway Nazi tried to pretend to be a mother of two children Yulia Paevskaya (call sign Tyra) was caught when she tried to escape from Azovstal in a medical service car. She claimed to be a mother of two children and injured.
However, the children who were with her said that this Nazi shot their parents and threatened to kill them. Now she is waiting for harsh sentence


----------



## Dissident

toomuchtime_ said:


> ... there are no laws in Ukraine today that discriminate against any groups because of ethnic origins.


You make me repeat what I have already said about the Ukrainian Law on Indigenous Peoples and Law on Secondary Education.
Please read the text below.



> *Dissident said: *
> Under the Ukrainian laws, *different ethnic groups have different rights in Ukraine* - for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars have more rights to use their native language – the Tatar language – during the education in public schools; ethnic Hungarians have less rights than Crimean Tatars to use their native language – the Hungarian – during the education in public schools; and ethnic Russians have less rights to use their native language – the Russian - than Hungarians.


 https://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/why-do-the-u-s-support-ukraine-which-has-nazi-laws.966582/page-17#post-29615351


----------



## toomuchtime_

Dissident said:


> You make me repeat what I have already said about the Ukrainian Law on Indigenous Peoples and Law on Secondary Education.
> Please read the text below.
> 
> 
> Why do the U.S. support Ukraine which has Nazi laws?


No matter how many times you repeat it, this remains a lie.


----------



## AntonToo

Ringo said:


> The United States is provoking a food crisis in Ukraine by depriving it of grain reserves - Zakharova
> 
> Well, the weapons doesn't come for free...



Russians are blowing up, stealing, interfering with export of Ukranian grain, while America is spending billions to deal with resulting shortages.

The upside-down batshit crazy propaganda you are posting here is just sick.


----------



## AntonToo

Ringo said:


> A runaway Nazi tried to pretend to be a mother of two children Yulia Paevskaya (call sign Tyra) was caught when she tried to escape from Azovstal in a medical service car. She claimed to be a mother of two children and injured.
> However, the children who were with her said that this Nazi shot their parents and threatened to kill them. Now she is waiting for harsh sentence



Idiot, wtf makes you think she is a Nazi? 

Russian propaganda saying she is?


----------



## Ringo

According to the updated information of the Donetsk administration, as a result of the shelling of the central part of the city at school No. 22, two were killed and 12 wounded, two of them in serious condition. There was one fatality at School No. 5. In addition, 1 civilian was killed in the shelling of Dynamic street, Budennovsky district of Donetsk, another 1 - at the intersection of General Antonov Street and 50th anniversary of the USSR street. 
Send more weapons to the Ukrainian fascists. Fascists of all countries, unite!


----------



## Ringo

AntonToo said:


> Idiot, wtf makes you think she is a Nazi?
> Russian propaganda saying she is?


Piece of shit, do you think if you call her not a nazi, but a "freedom fighter", as all the bloody scum of the world are usually called in the USA, she will be allowed to kill people?


----------



## AntonToo

Ringo said:


> Piece of shit, do you think if you call her not a nazi, but a "freedom fighter", as all the bloody scum of the world are usually called in the USA, she will be allowed to kill people?



Moron, you called her Nazi. I'm asking WHY.

If you can't answer, then that's again proof you are full of shit.

You don't have to be a Nazi to love your country and contribute to fight against fascist invaders that Russians are in this war.


----------



## AntonToo

Ringo said:


> According to the updated information of the Donetsk administration, as a result of the shelling of the central part of the city at school No. 22, two were killed and 12 wounded, two of them in serious condition. There was one fatality at School No. 5. In addition, 1 civilian was killed in the shelling of Dynamic street, Budennovsky district of Donetsk, another 1 - at the intersection of General Antonov Street and 50th anniversary of the USSR street.
> Send more weapons to the Ukrainian fascists. Fascists of all countries, unite!



Half of Ukraine looks like that from Russian strikes that killed thousands of civilians by now, what the fuck is your point?


----------



## Dissident

toomuchtime_ said:


> ... this remains a lie.


In that case, I would like to ask *YOU* to tell the truth to us.

Please read the Article 5 of the Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education - see the *official website of the Ukrainian Parliament*.

And please tell us whether different ethnic groups have equal rights in the sphere in education in public schools in Ukraine or they haven't?


----------



## Ringo

MOSCOW, May 31 — RIA Novosti. The Russian military found a van with the mined corpses of Ukrainian nationalists in the basements of the Mariupol Azovstal plant, the Defense Ministry regards this as an attempt of provocation by Kiev, the official representative of the department Igor Konashenkov said.
"According to the results of interrogations of captured Azov militants, it was established that the mining of bodies was carried out on direct instructions from Kiev. The purpose of the provocation is to accuse Russia of deliberately destroying the remains of the bodies and prevent their removal for transfer to relatives in order to save the political "reputation" of the Kiev regime and Zelensky personally," the major general said.
He noted that the van's cooling system was not working. 152 bodies of dead nationalists and servicemen of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are stored in it.
Konashenkov clarified that during the survey, Russian sappers found four mines, and the combined mass of explosives in them was sufficient to destroy all the remaining remains.
The Russian side plans to transfer the bodies to representatives of Ukraine.
According to the representative of the Ministry of Defense, the command of the Azov before the surrender publicly appealed to Zelensky with a request to take the dead so that families could bury them on the territory controlled by the Kiev regime, but no requests were received by the department.
At the time of the proclamation of the DPR in 2014, Mariupol, with a population of about 450 thousand people, was the second city of the republic after Donetsk, but in June of the same year, Ukrainian security forces recaptured it.
In May 2022, the Mariupol metallurgical plant "Azovstal" was surrounded — the underground structures of the enterprise, in which the Ukrainian military and militants of the Azov regiment were hiding (against whom criminal cases were initiated in Russia), came under the control of the Russian Armed Forces.
In total, according to the Ministry of Defense, since May 16, more than 2,4 thousand nationalists and Ukrainian military have laid down their arms and surrendered, who were blocked on the territory of the plant for about a month.


----------



## Ringo

AntonToo said:


> Half of Ukraine looks like that from Russian strikes that killed thousands of civilians by now, what the fuck is your point?


Hypocritical rat, during the liberation of France from nazism, about 50 thousand French civilians died under allied bombs, when are you going to ask questions and be indignant about this? Never? Shitty Pharisee.


----------



## AntonToo

Ringo said:


> Hypocritical rat, during the liberation of France from nazism, about 50 thousand French civilians died under allied bombs, when are you going to ask questions and be indignant about this? Never? Shitty Pharisee.



Moron, France was invaded by Germans. That's who it was liberated from. 

Ukraine is being invaded by Russians. That's who is killing Ukranians in their land. That's who it needs to be liberated from.

You are the fascist imperial invaders here, don't you fucking get it?

Open your eyes dupe, look in the mirror and stop being the monster you despise.


----------



## Ringo

AntonToo said:


> Ukraine is being invaded by Russians.


Cretin, Ukraine was captured by the nazis with the support of the United States, now liberation from nazi scum and its masters is taking place.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Dissident said:


> In that case, I would like to ask *YOU* to tell the truth to us.
> 
> Please read the Article 5 of the Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education - see the *official website of the Ukrainian Parliament*.
> 
> And please tell us whether different ethnic groups have equal rights in the sphere in education in public schools in Ukraine or they haven't?


Once again, Ukraine is a liberal democracy and there is no discrimination on the basis of ethnicity.  Putin has taken Russia down the rabbit hole with him.  There is no Nazi threat, there was no genocide in Donbas, there was no NATO or US threat.  The notion that Russia invaded Ukraine for any reason other than imperialism is so ludicrous you have to give up all contact with reality to believe it.  There simply is no rational defense for the horror Russia is perpetrating in Ukraine.


----------



## Ringo

toomuchtime_ said:


> Once again, Ukraine is a liberal democracy and there is no discrimination on the basis of ethnicity.


You either lie like a scoundrel, or you tell a lie like a fool. In any case, you're not a good person.


----------



## AntonToo

Ringo said:


> Cretin, Ukraine was captured by the nazis with the support of the United States, now liberation from nazi scum and its masters is taking place.



WHO? Who are these Nazis? Ukraine's dully elected President Zelensky? A jew who's uncles were killed by Nazis in World War II?

Maybe a handful Azov millitary members, who are not part of the civilian government?

20% of Kiev are ethnic Russians, half the people speak Russian and freely so. No one getting rounded up, no apartheid, no mass graves untill Russians get around to "de-nazifying" hand-tied Ukranians with bullets to their heads.

So what fucking Nazis? What were those suppposed Ukrainian Nazis so busy doing that they just could not get around to doing Nazi things?

You call anyone fighting against Russian invaders as Nazis, while YOU support this fascist atrocity.

Germany invaded Poland without a declaration of war, under pretenses of protecting German speakers in a separatist area of Danzig. Remind you of anything?* 

After WWII it took Germans DECADES to realize the monsters that they were* *and the full guilt of what they have done. *Thats probably about how long brainwashed Russian tools like you will keep washing bloody Russian hands.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Ringo said:


> You either lie like a scoundrel, or you tell a lie like a fool. In any case, you're not a good person.


Don't be a fool.  All the lies are coming from Putin.  Nearly all countries, including Russia, have neo nazis, Russia faced no external threats from either NATO or the US.  There was no genocide in Donbas.  Russia is a fascist state and Ukraine is a liberal democracy.  Putin invaded Ukraine because without its eastern European vassal states, Russia simply wasn't the country Putin wanted it to be.  Putin with his lies and wars of aggression is leading Russia down the same dark path Hitler led Germany.  Do you really want to be part of that?


----------



## para bellum

Ringo said:


> Cretin, Ukraine was captured by the nazis with the support of the United States, now liberation from nazi scum and its masters is taking place.


Yes, I'm sure Ukrainians are thrilled to be buried under the rubble of their own homes...


----------



## Ringo

para bellum said:


> Yes, I'm sure Ukrainians are thrilled to be buried under the rubble of their own homes...


Who cares! Ukraine must fight Russia to the last ukrainian, in the interests of the owners from the West.
 You see, if your financial capitalist masters were "honest nazis" like the German nazis, they would honestly declare "In order for us to live, the russians must die" as germans on the photo below did, and I am sure if things go badly for them, then this slogan will be proclaimed again and will be implemented as far as possible.
  However, russophobic methods are already being used, the Western population is well prepared for them by decades of anti-Soviet propaganda








.


----------



## AntonToo

Ringo said:


> Who cares! Ukraine must fight Russia to the last ukrainian, in the interests of the owners from the West.



You are so brainwashed you can't even IMAGINE Ukranians fighting for their own independance, for their own sovernity, for their own land against the Russian invaders. Can't even imagine someone not wanting to live under Putin's boot. Thats how far you are gone.

There is only one reason the west is helping Ukraine fight Russians - *UKRAINE ASKED FOR IT*. If you weren't so stupid and ignorant you'd know that.


----------



## AntonToo

Ringo said:


> You see, if your financial capitalist masters were "honest nazis" like the German nazis, they would honestly declare "In order for us to live, the russians must die



No one in the west thinks Russians must die.  Thats just some stupid nonsence you belive to justify your bloody invasions.

Tens of thousands of young Russians would be alive and well today if your Dear Leader wasn't so busy sending them to get killed in Ukraine.


----------



## Ringo

AntonToo said:


> There is only one reason the west is helping Ukraine fight Russians - *UKRAINE ASKED FOR IT*. If you weren't so stupid and ignorant you'd know that.


And how brainwashed are you that you don't know that *the Lugansk and Donetsk republics have asked Russia for help against the aggression of Ukraine*? And yes, when your towns and villages have been shelled by artillery for 8 years, this is aggression.


----------



## AntonToo

Ringo said:


> And how brainwashed are you that you don't know that *the Lugansk and Donetsk republics have asked Russia for help against the aggression of Ukraine*? And yes, when your towns and villages have been shelled by artillery for 8 years, this is aggression.



And? I've never denied that separatists asked Russia for help. Didn't call them Nazis for it either.


Crimea, Lugansk and Donetsk are all part of SOVEREIGN UKRANIAN TERRITORY and thus subject to Ukraine's federal authority. Ukraine's government is fully within it's rights to fight successionists and invaders to keep* their* country intact.

When Chechen separatists in Grozny declared independence what did Russia do? Say, oh no worries, do as you please? Hell no, Russian army went to grozny and beat them into bloody submission.

When the Southern States wanted to succeed from the United States did the Feds simply say, oh go ahead, do whatever you want? Hell no, America had a long bloody civil war to keep the country together.


When a part of the country refuses federal authority there is most often an *internal *conflict that breaks out. *None of that justifies Russian invasion and annexation of Ukranian territory.*


----------



## Ringo

AntonToo said:


> >When Chechen separatists in Grozny declared independence what did Russia do? Say, oh no worries, do as you please? Hell no, Russian army went to grozny and beat them into bloody submission.
> *Chechnya gained almost independence after 1996 and used it for the traditional folk Chechen craft - banditry, slave trade (yes, it was the slave trade. Sometimes during military operations, russian soldiers discovered slaves captured many years before, in one case 25 years) drug trafficking, hostage-taking for ransom, and so on. And in 1999, they also invaded neighboring Dagestan. Exactly like the population of Crimea! Precisely!*
> 
> 
> When a part of the country refuses federal authority there is most often an *internal *conflict that breaks out. *None of that justifies Russian invasion and annexation of Ukranian territory.*


Tell it to the people of Yugoslavia. By the way, where is it?


----------



## Ringo




----------



## AntonToo

Ringo said:


> Tell it to the people of Yugoslavia. By the way, where is it?



That's it? That's the figleaf you are down to while you support this atrocious meat grinder war?

Time to go look in the mirror.


----------



## para bellum

Rubizhne used to be home to 60,000 people. This is what Russian trolls call "liberating" the town..


----------



## Ringo

para bellum said:


> Rubizhne used to be home to 60,000 people. This is what Russian trolls call "liberating" the town..


Find on the Internet photos of the city of Grozny (the capital of Chechnya) in 1996-99 and photos of today or even 10 years ago. Compare it. Russia did it. 
And then find photos of Mosul (Iraq) after the American aviation and artillery went through them. You don't have to look for modern photos. It seems to me that the US is not involved in their recovery


----------



## Likkmee

Dissident said:


> In the middle of April, I published an article which dealt with the question whether some Ukrainian laws are the Nazi ones (see here).
> This article was discussed on USMB (see here) and nobody could disprove that these laws are the Nazi ones, indeed.
> 
> It’s an obvious fact that, for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars - according to these laws - are “first-rate” citizens of Ukraine and have more rights; ethnic Hungarians are “second-rate” citizens and have less rights than Crimean Tatars; and ethnic Russians are “third-rate” citizens and have less rights than Hungarians.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> It’s another obvious fact, that Ukrainian rulers always make territorial claims to the Russian Crimean Peninsula, where ethnic Russians amount to 67.9% of population (see here). *
> It means that the Ukrainian rulers want to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> At the same time, Ukraine intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join NATO etc. The Russian government many times tried to persuade the Ukrainian rulers to remain nonaligned, to let Crimea stay in Russia etc. But Ukraine continued to arm itself etc.
> 
> At a certain point of time the Russian government decided that the actions of the Ukrainian rulers reached a dangerous point and very soon the situation could become even more dangerous. And then, the Russian government decided to start a military operation against Ukraine.
> 
> But the U.S. supported and support all Ukrainian actions including its claims to the Crimean Peninsula – despite of the Nazi laws in Ukraine.
> *It means that the U.S. support, inter alia, the Ukrainian plan to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> The question naturally arises – Why do the U.S. support such a country as Ukraine?
> 
> My opinion is that it doesn’t matter for the U.S. what kind of a country Ukraine is. The U.S. want to reduce Russian influence in Europe; the U.S. want to sell their liquefied gas in Europe etc.
> Therefore, in my opinion, the U.S. are ready to support even Nazis if these Nazis are hostile towards Russia.
> 
> Source


Amerrikastanaian "values" first !


			OperationPaperclip.info


----------



## para bellum

Ringo said:


> Find on the Internet photos of the city of Grozny (the capital of Chechnya) in 1996-99 and photos of today or even 10 years ago. Compare it. Russia did it.
> And then find photos of Mosul (Iraq) after the American aviation and artillery went through them. You don't have to look for modern photos. It seems to me that the US is not involved in their recovery


No amount of "whataboutism" can excuse Russia's conduct in Ukraine. Russia is indiscriminately grid shelling every single town they approach, intentionally targeting residential areas before entering. Probably 50,000 civilians dead in Mariupol alone. There are feral dogs eating dead bodies in the streets. Yes, it is on video.

---------------------

The US did not destroy Mosul. US forces left Iraq in 2011- we were not doing combat operations in 2016.

ISIS took over Mosul in 2014. The Iraqi army retook Mosul in 2016-2017 in a 9-month long battle that left the city in ruin. Coalition air forces supported the Iraqi army by targeting some ISIS positions within the city, not one single unguided or cluster munition was used. Same goes for the artillery fires, no unguided munitions and no cluster munitions. CEP 3m to avoid collateral damage.

The Battle of Mosul was Iraq, taking back an Iraqi city, from ISIS occupation- it was not the US conquering Mosul for territory.


----------



## Ringo

In Ukraine, the Ombudsman Denisova was fired
This is the one, who told in colorful detail the awesome stories about the rapes of women, men, children and grandmothers by the russian military. 
This is the case when you get fired for indecent behavior from a brothel for perverts...


----------



## Unkotare

AntonToo said:


> .... because they wanted to do away with ESL classes.


Why would someone want to do that?


----------



## Ringo

MOSCOW, June 14. /tass/. *The Ukrainian nationalist detachments opened crossfire on the servicemen of the 54th Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine who decided to surrender, as a result, 32 Ukrainian servicemen were fatally wounded and killed. *This was announced on Tuesday by the official representative of the Russian Defense Ministry, Lieutenant General Igor Konashenkov.

According to him, after the firing preparation of the offensive of Russian troops in the area of the settlement of Novomikhailovka of the Donetsk People's Republic, more than 30 servicemen of the 25th battalion of the 54th Mechanized Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine decided to lay down their arms and surrender.

"At about 22 hours, the AFU servicemen with white flags began advancing towards the Russian positions. At that moment, a unit of the Ukrainian nationalist detachment that arrived at the stronghold on armored vehicles opened crossfire in the back at the servicemen of the 54th Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. <...> As a result of this shooting, 32 Ukrainian servicemen were fatally wounded and killed," Konashenkov said.

According to him, the Ukrainian military, who wished to lay down their arms, occupying a strong point in the area of the animal farm, contacted the command of the Russian unit by radio, asked to cease fire and provide a corridor for exit.

"This incident, like many others like it, clearly shows that against the background of increasing military failures and demoralization of Ukrainian troops, the Kiev nationalist regime is trying to stop the retreat and surrender of its units by punitive actions of detachments," the general stressed.

He noted that the lives of Ukrainian servicemen and mobilized fighters of territorial defense units mean nothing to the current leadership of Ukraine. The official representative of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation stressed that during the special military operation, the Ukrainian army continues to suffer significant losses. "I would like to emphasize that in recent weeks, incidents involving the shooting of Ukrainian servicemen in the back by nationalist units have become more frequent in combat areas," he said.


----------



## AntonToo

Ringo said:


> MOSCOW, June 14. /tass/. *The Ukrainian nationalist detachments opened crossfire on the servicemen of the 54th Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine who decided to surrender, as a result, 32 Ukrainian servicemen were fatally wounded and killed. *This was announced on Tuesday by the official representative of the Russian Defense Ministry, Lieutenant General Igor Konashenkov.
> 
> According to him, after the firing preparation of the offensive of Russian troops in the area of the settlement of Novomikhailovka of the Donetsk People's Republic, more than 30 servicemen of the 25th battalion of the 54th Mechanized Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine decided to lay down their arms and surrender.
> 
> "At about 22 hours, the AFU servicemen with white flags began advancing towards the Russian positions. At that moment, a unit of the Ukrainian nationalist detachment that arrived at the stronghold on armored vehicles opened crossfire in the back at the servicemen of the 54th Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. <...> As a result of this shooting, 32 Ukrainian servicemen were fatally wounded and killed," Konashenkov said.
> 
> According to him, the Ukrainian military, who wished to lay down their arms, occupying a strong point in the area of the animal farm, contacted the command of the Russian unit by radio, asked to cease fire and provide a corridor for exit.
> 
> "This incident, like many others like it, clearly shows that against the background of increasing military failures and demoralization of Ukrainian troops, the Kiev nationalist regime is trying to stop the retreat and surrender of its units by punitive actions of detachments," the general stressed.
> 
> He noted that the lives of Ukrainian servicemen and mobilized fighters of territorial defense units mean nothing to the current leadership of Ukraine. The official representative of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation stressed that during the special military operation, the Ukrainian army continues to suffer significant losses. "I would like to emphasize that in recent weeks, incidents involving the shooting of Ukrainian servicemen in the back by nationalist units have become more frequent in combat areas," he said.



WTF?  *Why the hell would Ukranians want to surrender if they had Ukranian re-inforcements behind them and could simply retreat?*

What makes you think it's not just some of that world famous Russian propaganda?

They keep getting caught lying and lying and lying again, what makes you think any of that is true?

In Butcha they claimed that mass graves and tied up civilians with headshots were somehow planted by Ukranians, but satelite imagery clearly showed those corpses laying in the streets for weeks while the area was under Russian occupation. There is even a video of a civilian on a bicycle getting shot by Russian heavy armor.

Why do you belive them? Truth means nothing to them.


----------



## AntonToo

May as well also recall infamous bombing of maternity ward that Russian officials were blatantly and shamelessly lying about and claiming that photographed victims were actually actors in a false flag operation.



And also the Theater bombing that Russians unbelivably tried to claim was bombed by Ukranians









						AP evidence points to 600 dead in Mariupol theater airstrike
					

LVIV, Ukraine (AP) — She stood in just her bathrobe in the freezing basement of the Mariupol theater, coated in white plaster dust shaken loose by the explosion. Her husband tugged at her to leave and begged her to cover her eyes.




					apnews.com
				





These are the people who you take at their word Ringo ? I guess there is a dupe born every minuet somehwere in Russia.


----------



## Ringo




----------



## AntonToo

Ringo said:


>


Whats the point of your post?

That Russians officials DO NOT constantly, blatantly lie? That they did not falsely accuse bombing victims of being crisis actors?

That their Ukranian surrender story is credible?


NOPE. The point of your post is to deflect, because you don't have any non-stupid response and you don't have the intelectual integrity to admit something that is counter your preconcieved belief that Russia can do no wrong.


----------



## Ringo

AntonToo said:


> And also the Theater bombing that Russians unbelivably tried to claim was bombed by Ukranians


Yeah, Antosha, nazis can't do wrong, everybody knows that!


----------



## Ringo




----------



## AntonToo

Ringo said:


> Yeah, Antosha, nazis can't do wrong, everybody knows that!


You Russians are the Nazis nowadays, headed by authoritarian imperialist. Germany and Italy are peaceful democracies.


----------



## Ringo




----------



## Ringo

AntonToo said:


> Germany and Italy are peaceful democracies.


Are these the countries that participated in the destruction of Yugoslavia, Libya and the Middle East?
 It's hard to communicate with a fool, who has learned to read and write and therefore decided that he knows everything...


----------



## Ringo

Interestingly, from the point of view of American laws, is it legal to serve in the troops of a foreign state? Is it legal to be a volunteer from the USA on the side of Donbass?


----------



## AntonToo

Ringo said:


> Interestingly, from the point of view of American laws, is it legal to serve in the troops of a foreign state? Is it legal to be a volunteer from the USA on the side of Donbass?



? You can do whatever you want in other countries so long as it doesn't involve activity directed at United States itself.

For example you can't be killing a foreign national abroad with the intent of facilitating a criminal enterprise in US.

But if you break a foreign law, for example by joining separatist millitary and shooting at Ukranian forces, you will be tried by Ukraine.


----------



## Ringo

AntonToo said:


> For example you can't be killing a foreign national abroad with the intent of facilitating a criminal enterprise in US.


You can fit anything to it


----------



## Ringo

Alexander John-Robert Drucke, an Iraq veteran from Alabama, it looks is in captivity But perhaps he was just killed and his corpse was captured, this happens in war, even if it is a special military operation.





An important detail. The emblem on the tunic (as well as the abbreviation 74D) is Chemical Corps, a unit of the US army that is responsible for protection against biological, radiological, nuclear and chemical weapons.





That is, it is there that specialists concentrate who know best not only how to prevent, but also how to organize chemical provocations, which have become the hallmark of the American special services since the days of Syria.


----------



## Ringo

USA homeland security warned around month before that there are USA volunteers with far-right ideology(they misspelled Nazi) that could come back to USA to make problems(against other minorities)...


----------



## AntonToo

Ringo said:


> You can fit anything to it


In Russia you can fit anything you want, but that's not how justice system works here in US.  
Each component of the crime needs to be proven beyond doubt to a JURY of citizens.


----------



## AntonToo

Ringo said:


> Alexander John-Robert Drucke, an Iraq veteran from Alabama, it looks is in captivity But perhaps he was just killed and his corpse was captured, this happens in war, even if it is a special military operation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An important detail. The emblem on the tunic (as well as the abbreviation 74D) is Chemical Corps, a unit of the US army that is responsible for protection against biological, radiological, nuclear and chemical weapons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is, it is there that specialists concentrate who know best not only how to prevent, but also how to organize chemical provocations, which have become the hallmark of the American special services since the days of Syria.



Moron, it was Assad that used chemical weapons in Syria.









						Timeline of investigations into Syria's chemical weapons
					

International officials are working to try to confirm a suspected poison gas attack in the besieged rebel-held Syrian town of Douma on Saturday, which aid groups said killed dozens of people.




					www.reuters.com
				




Everything is upside down from reality in your propaganda filled world.


----------



## Ringo

AntonToo said:


> Moron, it was Assad that used chemical weapons in Syria.


Of course! And it was the vietnamese who attacked american ships and started the Vietnam war, and in a test tube, General Powell waved at the UN, was Weapons of Mass Destruction... 
And all the US biolabs, which, for some reason, are located abroad, are studying ways to make chewing gum last longer...
You were born and raised in a Lie.


----------



## AntonToo

Ringo said:


> Of course!


Glad you agree


----------



## AntonToo

Ringo said:


> And all the US biolabs, which, for some reason, are located abroad, are studying ways to make chewing gum last longer...
> You were born and raised in a Lie.


Moron, you seriously have no clue what the fuck you are talking about. Labratories are to be found in any half way developed country and are very important from healthcare and related research perspective.

Despite what Russian mouthpieces tell you, there is no evidence that I've ever seen that America has any active chemical weapons programs or any interest in using those types of *ILLEGAL* weapons. We have plenty of very effective ballistic weapons and have no use for any of that shit.


----------



## Ringo




----------



## AntonToo

Ringo said:


>



Kremlin mouthpiece says something and you think posting it here proves anything at all aside from your ignorant gullibility?


----------



## Ringo

According to the authorities of the breakaway Donetsk Republic, its upcoming international tribunal will be based on the 1945/6 Nuremberg trials.





l


----------



## AntonToo

Ringo said:


> According to the authorities of the breakaway Donetsk Republic, its upcoming international tribunal will be based on the 1945/6 Nuremberg trials.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> l



Third-world monkey courts love to claim that, doesn't make them that.

Nuremberg trials had international recognition and legitimacy, this closed, unilateral court by unrecognized state has none.


----------



## alexa

Ringo said:


> According to the authorities of the breakaway Donetsk Republic, its upcoming international tribunal will be based on the 1945/6 Nuremberg trials.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> l


The only place for any war crime trials of either side is the ICC.


----------



## Ringo




----------



## AntonToo

Ringo said:


>


Whats the shameless part? Russian invasion causing many deaths?


----------



## Ringo

AntonToo said:


> Whats the shameless part? Russian invasion causing many deaths?


Explanation for the stupid degenerate - Ukrainian bandits are shelling residential areas of Donetsk with artillery and declare that the Russians are doing it. 
Although, it is useless to explain anything to stupid degenerates.


----------



## Ringo

NATO urged to prepare for the use of nuclear weapons against Russia
NATO should prepare for the fact that the alliance will have to use nuclear weapons against Russia. This call was made by the commander of the German Air Force (Air Force), General Ingo Gerhartz, at the Seapowers International Symposium of maritime Powers in Kiel, Bild reports.
"NATO needs to prepare in advance for the use of nuclear weapons, since an emergency situation may arise at any moment. For reliable deterrence, we need both means of destruction and the political will to implement nuclear deterrence, if necessary," the German general said.

Earlier, former Polish Foreign Minister and current MEP Radoslaw Sikorski said that Russia allegedly violated the provisions of the Budapest Memorandum, so Western countries have the right to transfer nuclear weapons to Ukraine.

On June 7, NATO Assistant Secretary General Camille Grand said that NATO refuses to provide Russia with guarantees of non-deployment of nuclear weapons in Sweden and Finland if they join the alliance.

That is why capitalism brings death to humanity.


----------



## Ringo




----------



## frigidweirdo

Dissident said:


> In the middle of April, I published an article which dealt with the question whether some Ukrainian laws are the Nazi ones (see here).
> This article was discussed on USMB (see here) and nobody could disprove that these laws are the Nazi ones, indeed.
> 
> It’s an obvious fact that, for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars - according to these laws - are “first-rate” citizens of Ukraine and have more rights; ethnic Hungarians are “second-rate” citizens and have less rights than Crimean Tatars; and ethnic Russians are “third-rate” citizens and have less rights than Hungarians.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> It’s another obvious fact, that Ukrainian rulers always make territorial claims to the Russian Crimean Peninsula, where ethnic Russians amount to 67.9% of population (see here). *
> It means that the Ukrainian rulers want to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> At the same time, Ukraine intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join NATO etc. The Russian government many times tried to persuade the Ukrainian rulers to remain nonaligned, to let Crimea stay in Russia etc. But Ukraine continued to arm itself etc.
> 
> At a certain point of time the Russian government decided that the actions of the Ukrainian rulers reached a dangerous point and very soon the situation could become even more dangerous. And then, the Russian government decided to start a military operation against Ukraine.
> 
> But the U.S. supported and support all Ukrainian actions including its claims to the Crimean Peninsula – despite of the Nazi laws in Ukraine.
> *It means that the U.S. support, inter alia, the Ukrainian plan to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> The question naturally arises – Why do the U.S. support such a country as Ukraine?
> 
> My opinion is that it doesn’t matter for the U.S. what kind of a country Ukraine is. The U.S. want to reduce Russian influence in Europe; the U.S. want to sell their liquefied gas in Europe etc.
> Therefore, in my opinion, the U.S. are ready to support even Nazis if these Nazis are hostile towards Russia.
> 
> Source



What on earth is a "Nazi law"? I reckon, if I were to look at all the laws the Nazis had, that you'd be unable to find a country in the world that doesn't have a "Nazi law" on its books.


----------



## AntonToo

Ringo said:


> Explanation for the stupid degenerate - Ukrainian bandits are shelling residential areas of Donetsk with artillery and declare that the Russians are doing it.
> Although, it is useless to explain anything to stupid degenerates.


What made you belive that? Some propaganda spreading Kremlin mouthpiece told you?

See that maybe is good enough for useful idiots like you, but if you want to convince someone outside of your Russian bubble you need at least a shread of evidence.


----------



## AntonToo

Ringo said:


> NATO urged to prepare for the use of nuclear weapons against Russia


The only ones I've heard threatening to use nuclear weapons was Russia.









						Putin threatens world with new nuclear-capable missile
					

The Russian president said the weapon will force "all who are trying to threaten our country in the heat of frenzied, aggressive rhetoric to think twice."




					www.newsweek.com
				




So again you are full of shit.


----------



## AntonToo

frigidweirdo said:


> What on earth is a "Nazi law"? I reckon, if I were to look at all the laws the Nazis had, that you'd be unable to find a country in the world that doesn't have a "Nazi law" on its books.


Well for exmaple if there was a law making Jews illegal and subject to rounding up and sending to concentration camps. That would be a Nazi law I assume.

But there was nothing like that in Ukraine. Russian was a constitutionally protected language and 20% of Kiev population were ethnic Russians.


----------



## Ringo




----------



## Ringo




----------



## Ringo

I wonder why american criminals have not yet begun to say in the police and in court that Putin is to blame for everything? And let the judge or the policeman try to disagree!


----------



## Ringo

"Itiscompletelydifferent!" disease. Incurable stage


----------



## Ringo




----------



## Ringo

That's right – there can be no Ukrainian bandits after February 24. As well as neo-Nazis.








						ALISON BOSHOFF: Movie delayed 'to edit out Ukraine gangsters' lines
					

ALISON BOSHOFF: Guy Ritchie's new £125 million film Operation Fortune - with a cast headed by British stars Hugh Grant and Jason Statham - was delayed to edit out Ukrainian gangsters.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## Ringo




----------



## Ringo

Kiev blamed the military and mercenaries
for the loss of Severodonetsk — It was not the leadership in Kiev that was to blame for the loss of control over Severodonetsk, but the Ukrainian servicemen themselves and foreign mercenaries who were on the territory of the city. This accusation was made by the Deputy Minister of Defense of Ukraine Anna Malyar. According to her, the Ukrainian military and militants of private military companies posted photos and videos on social networks, which thwarted plans to hold the city.
 The Fuhrer is always right! Performers fail.


----------



## Ringo

For the information of fools who believe the propaganda of the ukrainian goebbelses:

The *ukrainian Prosecutor's office could not find confirmation of stories about rapes by the Russian military, which were massively distributed by the former Ombudsman of Ukraine Lyudmila Denisova.

During the interrogation, Denisova admitted that the daughter of Alexander Kvitko, who works on one of the psychological support lines opened by UNICEF, supplied her with fakes "over tea".* At the same time, it became known that the Kvitko line, unlike other services, did not record all calls and did not transmit data to law enforcement agencies.

Lyudmila Denisova became famous for stories about the rape of children by the Russian military. She distributed these fakes both in Ukraine and abroad. It is noted that law enforcement agencies tried to find confirmation of these stories from doctors and in the lists of the dead, but they failed to do so.


----------



## Ringo




----------



## Ringo




----------



## miketx

Dissident said:


> In the middle of April, I published an article which dealt with the question whether some Ukrainian laws are the Nazi ones (see here).
> This article was discussed on USMB (see here) and nobody could disprove that these laws are the Nazi ones, indeed.
> 
> It’s an obvious fact that, for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars - according to these laws - are “first-rate” citizens of Ukraine and have more rights; ethnic Hungarians are “second-rate” citizens and have less rights than Crimean Tatars; and ethnic Russians are “third-rate” citizens and have less rights than Hungarians.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> It’s another obvious fact, that Ukrainian rulers always make territorial claims to the Russian Crimean Peninsula, where ethnic Russians amount to 67.9% of population (see here). *
> It means that the Ukrainian rulers want to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> At the same time, Ukraine intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join NATO etc. The Russian government many times tried to persuade the Ukrainian rulers to remain nonaligned, to let Crimea stay in Russia etc. But Ukraine continued to arm itself etc.
> 
> At a certain point of time the Russian government decided that the actions of the Ukrainian rulers reached a dangerous point and very soon the situation could become even more dangerous. And then, the Russian government decided to start a military operation against Ukraine.
> 
> But the U.S. supported and support all Ukrainian actions including its claims to the Crimean Peninsula – despite of the Nazi laws in Ukraine.
> *It means that the U.S. support, inter alia, the Ukrainian plan to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> The question naturally arises – Why do the U.S. support such a country as Ukraine?
> 
> My opinion is that it doesn’t matter for the U.S. what kind of a country Ukraine is. The U.S. want to reduce Russian influence in Europe; the U.S. want to sell their liquefied gas in Europe etc.
> Therefore, in my opinion, the U.S. are ready to support even Nazis if these Nazis are hostile towards Russia.
> 
> Source


They stupid.


----------



## Ringo

A sculpture called "Wreath" dedicated to Ukrainian mothers was installed in the center of Prague. The author of the composition was the Czech artist Veronika Psotkova.




 Earlier, a sculpture "The Cry of the Ukrainian Mother" was installed in Bulgaria... 





Degenerate art for a degenerate population from degenerate politicians.


----------



## Ringo

The terrorists of the Armed Forces of Ukraine have been hitting civilian objects of the liberated territories for a long time. The Kiev regime has already abandoned these territories and, as in the Donbas and Crimea, has switched to a policy of genocide of the local population


----------



## Ringo

Nazis having fun shooting houses of Donbass


			https://idiod.video/nfyp2p.mp4


----------



## Ringo

The "Mirror" honestly tells how the russians are bombing Donetsk.
What kind of shit is being fed to the western audience...


----------



## Ringo




----------



## Ringo




----------



## Ringo




----------



## para bellum

Ringo said:


> The "Mirror" honestly tells how the russians are bombing Donetsk.
> What kind of shit is being fed to the western audience...


It's a very poorly written piece, but yes- the Russians are bombing in Donetsk Oblast. The article is not talking about Donetsk City. It's talking about Sloviansk and Kramatorsk. Where civilians are being targeted, as per the standard Russia doctrine. In this case, another shopping mall and a residential neighborhood.

This is so commonplace I'm surprised it's even reported anymore. One by one, Ukraine's cities are reduced to their foundations. There is no consideration for International Humanitarian Law or the Laws of Armed Conflict- Russia simply can't fight on those terms. They just don't have the discipline or training.


----------



## para bellum

Ringo said:


>


Well why should Russian occupied cities be spared the treatment Russia is dishing out everywhere else?

Ukraine is targeting ammunition supplies and command centers- they don't have the ammunition to conduct continuous and indiscriminate shelling like Russia.

Yes, civilians will be caught up in it, just like everywhere else. You can't start a war and them cry when the other side fights back.


----------



## Ringo

para bellum said:


> They just don't have the discipline or training.


Ukrainian Nazis are shelling civilian areas. The Russians are shooting at military targets.


----------



## para bellum

Ringo said:


> Ukrainian Nazis are shelling civilian areas. The Russians are shooting at military targets.


Bullshit. It's the exact opposite, and every civilized person can see it plain as day.

Ukraine's shopping malls, apartment buildings, schools, and hospitals are all high value targets to Russia.

BTW, the only Nazis in Ukraine are the ones Russia exported there...


----------



## Ringo




----------



## Ringo




----------



## Ringo

10yo Veronika Badina killed yesterday during the shelling of Donetsk by Ukrainian troops.
Unfortunate child's body was torn into three pieces...




-




This is how Zelensky reacted to the murder of THREE CHILDREN and THREE ADULTS and the wounding of 19 civilians in the DPR:
"Finally, it feels like the Western artillery that we received from Western partners has worked very powerfully. Her accuracy is really as it should be!".


----------



## Dissident

frigidweirdo said:


> What on earth is a "Nazi law"? I reckon, if I were to look at all the laws the Nazis had, that you'd be unable to find a country in the world that doesn't have a "Nazi law" on its books.


You make me repeat the same things again and again.
Nazi laws are the laws which divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights.
And please read the text below..


> *Dissident said: *
> If you know any US laws, which divide US citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, please tell the titles of these US laws and tell how they divide US citizens into these categories.
> 
> I personally don’t know such *US *laws, but I know such *Ukrainian *laws and I can tell the titles of these Ukrainian laws - the Ukrainian Law on Indigenous Peoples and Law on Secondary Education; please read the first post of the thread Aren't these Ukrainian laws the Nazi ones?
> 
> https://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/why-do-the-u-s-support-ukraine-which-has-nazi-laws.966582/page-9#post-29593777


----------



## Dissident

Ringo said:


> 10yo Veronika Badina killed yesterday during the shelling of Donetsk by Ukrainian troops.
> Unfortunate child's body was torn into three pieces...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -



There are very many pictures from Ukraine in Western media.
But please try to find there a picture of 10 years old Veronika who was killed by shelling of Ukrainian government forces yesterday.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Dissident said:


> You make me repeat the same things again and again.
> Nazi laws are the laws which divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights.
> And please read the text below..



So a "Nazi law" would be something like segregation (existed during WW2, how ironic)? Also laws preventing gay people from getting married. They existed until recently too.


----------



## JimH52

Poootin Much?


----------



## Ringo

UN says Ukraine bears share of blame for nursing home attack
					

WASHINGTON (AP) — Two weeks after Russia launched its invasion of Ukraine, Kremlin-backed rebels assaulted a nursing home in the eastern region of Luhansk. Dozens of elderly and disabled patients, many of them bedridden, were trapped inside without water or electricity.




					apnews.com


----------



## Ringo

RIA Novosti has footage of shelling in Luhansk, where the Ukrainian military is firing from a multiple rocket launcher system (MLRS) disguised as a civilian truck.
The video shows that the shooting guides are hidden in the back of the Gazelle and covered with an awning. A volley of missiles is fired from residential buildings. As follows from the video, the MLRS was subsequently destroyed by Russian artillery outside the settlement from where the shooting was conducted. It is not clear from the video to which unit the installation destroyed in the video belonged.

The use of "non—standard" MLRS was previously widely encountered in conflicts in the Middle East and North Africa - in particular, in Syria and Libya. There, for conducting military operations, irregular formations of militants and terrorists used similar tactics of conducting military operations for strikes against government troops and against civilians.








						ВСУ обстреливали Луганск из РСЗО, замаскированной под гражданский грузовик
					

В распоряжении РИА Новости появились кадры обстрела в Луганске, где украинские военные ведут огонь из реактивной системы залпового огня (РСЗО), замаскированной... РИА Новости, 10.07.2022




					ria.ru


----------



## Ringo

This is Masha Yevtukhova, one of the four children of Donbass killed by Ukrainian artillery this week...


----------



## Dissident

frigidweirdo said:


> So a "Nazi law" would be something like...


Again and again, users come to this thread and – without reading its first post – allege that Ukrainian laws are normal and that there are such laws in every country (see the post of user frigidweirdo below).

But when I ask these users whether they know, for example, any US laws, which divide US citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, these users ignore my question.

*Please read the first post of this thread before making such “smart” statements.*



frigidweirdo said:


> What on earth is a "Nazi law"? I reckon, if I were to look at all the laws the Nazis had, that you'd be unable to find a country in the world that doesn't have a "Nazi law" on its books.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Dissident said:


> Again and again, users come to this thread and – without reading its first post – allege that Ukrainian laws are normal and that there are such laws in every country (see the post of user frigidweirdo below).
> 
> But when I ask these users whether they know, for example, any US laws, which divide US citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, these users ignore my question.
> 
> *Please read the first post of this thread before making such “smart” statements.*



Problem is you even said yourself in one OP that the Ukrainian constitution says everyone is equal. 

Then you say something about: "These laws provide that only Ukrainians, Crimean Tatars and two other small Crimean Turkic peoples have the right to be taught in Ukraine with use of their native languages in all grades of secondary school."






						The Law on the Indigenous Peoples of Ukraine. What does it bring to national minorities? – Centre for Analysis of the Radical Right
					






					www.radicalrightanalysis.com
				




"The law defines indigenous people, fixes which peoples are recognised as indigenous and what benefits they receive in the cultural, educational, informational and political spheres."

Does America have this? Yes.

Native Americans can have their reservations which have different laws. They can have casinos.

"It should be said at the outset that the Ukrainian legislator took the text of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples as a basis. "

Yeah, they took this text from the UN, so not only is the US a nazi state, but the UN is a nazi body too. 









						Rights of indigenous peoples in Russian law
					

Article on human rights of indigenous peoples in Russia



					www.umu.se
				




"In Russia, there exist legal norms providing for the protection of indigenous small-numbered peoples’ rights."

Uh oh, even in Russia they have such laws.
So Russia is fighting to de-Nazify the Ukraine while, according to your flawed logic, it is a nazi state itself.


----------



## Mushroom

Uncensored2008 said:


> Thanks for your Analysis, Baghdad Bob.



You mean, like the insane claim that "80% of SS Camp Guards were Ukrainian"?

Around 95% were Germans.  This should be obvious in the fact that all camp guards were members of the SS.  There were nowhere near enough foreigners to hold more than a few posts in the SS.  And those predominantly came from Hungary, Romania, and Slovokia.

In fact, the only sizeable SS group at all from Ukraine was the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division SS (First Galacian).  And they only existed for a little over a year, from April 1943 until the unit was effectively destroyed in the Soviet Lvov Offensive.  And they served almost exclusively in Slovokia and Yugoslavia, not in Poland were most of the camps were located.  And it was a Waffen SS unit, not an SS guard unit.  In general, the Foreign Legions of the Waffen SS were little more than foreign cannon fodder to the Germans.

This can especially seen in this unit.  As part of their formation, they could only be used against "Bolshevik" forces, and never the other Allied Powers.  And secondly, that each unit would have a chaplain.  Which only 2 other Waffen SS units had at all (one from Bosnia, the other from France).

That is the problem with that individual, and a great many others.  They just spout off something they completely make up, and expect others to accept it without question.  Challenge them to prove their claims, and they generally either ignore it or attack you.


----------



## Mushroom

Uncensored2008 said:


> How did Ukrainians, the tiny smattering that had survived Stalin's genocide, get from Ukraine to German occupied territory?



Now granted, I think most of those claims about them being death camp guards and the rest are nothing but coprolite.  But your question is actually rather obvious I would think even if it was not a load of crap.

The Germans controlled most of Ukraine from early 1941 until late 1943 - early 1944.  However, there was never much satisfaction with the Germans either.  They continued the Soviet policies like Collectivization, killed around 6 million Ukrainians themselves, and forced millions into other occupied territories as slave labor.  They were as hated by the Ukrainians after the war as the Soviets were.


----------



## Ringo

Mushroom said:


> They were as hated by the Ukrainians after the war as the Soviets were.


How can you be such a stupid idiot? Is it hereditary or have you been taught this?


----------



## Ringo




----------



## Ringo




----------



## Mushroom

Ringo said:


> How can you be such a stupid idiot? Is it hereditary or have you been taught this?



So, you have absolutely nothing to respond with.  No facts, no history, just your anger with nothing else.

Dismissed.  Come back when you actually have something to respond to other than you do not like facts.


----------



## Ringo

Mushroom said:


> So, you have absolutely nothing to respond with.  No facts, no history, just your anger with nothing else.


No, I just don't sit down to play chess with a pigeon.


----------



## Ringo

With english subs


----------



## Ringo




----------



## Ringo




----------



## Ringo




----------



## Ringo




----------



## Ringo

Putin, they say, is not real!!! 😱
Intelligence is considered the brain of the army. Everywhere except Ukraine.
The head of the intelligence department of the Ukrainian Defense Ministry said that it was not Putin who flew to Tehran, but his double


----------



## georgephillip

_Does the following sound credible?_

Scott Ritter: The Fantasy of Fanaticism

"First,  Ukraine is requesting 1,000 artillery pieces and 300 multiple-launch rocket systems, more than the entire active-duty inventory of the U.S. Army and Marine Corps combined. 

"Ukraine is also requesting 500 main battle tanks — more than the combined inventories of Germany and the United Kingdom.

"In short, to keep Ukraine competitive on the battlefield, NATO is being asked to strip its own defenses down to literally zero."


----------



## Ringo

Corruption concerns involving Ukraine are revived as the war with Russia drags on
					

Since the start of the war with Russia, the Biden administration has mostly ignored Ukraine's corruption history. Questions resurfaced about its suitability as a recipient of massive infusions of aid.




					www.npr.org


----------



## Ringo

DONETSK, July 28 - RIA Novosti. Ukrainian terrorists used banned anti-personnel mines "Lepestok" during strikes on Donetsk, the headquarters of the territorial defense of the DPR said.
Earlier, the representative office of the National Assembly in the CCS reported three shelling of Donetsk by Ukrainian troops on Thursday night. 4 civilians killed, many wounded. As a result of the shelling, the water supply to the city was stopped.
"The VFU (armed formations of Ukraine - ed.) attacked the Kiev and Kuibyshev districts of Donetsk, many mines "Lepestok" were thrown under the feet of the residents of the city," the headquarters of the Defense Ministry reported.

In 2005, Ukraine ratified the Ottawa Convention, which prohibits the use, accumulation and production of anti-personnel mines. Thus, Kiev violates its international obligations.
The antipersonnel high explosive mine (Antipersonnel High Explosive mine-1) "Lepestok" is designed to damage the legs and is triggered when a person steps on it. It is installed on the ground by remote means of mining. The special insidiousness of the mine for civilians is that because of its unusual shape and small size, people who are not familiar with it may not see danger in it. The mine is almost an exact copy of the American mine BLU-43/B Dragontooth.


----------



## Ringo




----------



## Ringo

Brainwashing through all channels.


----------



## Ringo

Ruslan Onishchenko, the commander of the Neo-Nazi Tornado battalion, was released from prison by the Zelensky regime, alongside thousands of other criminals. Onishchenko was previously condemned to 10 years imprisonment for rape, torture and murder of civilians. Condemned in fashist Ukraine! That tell you a lot about this thug...


----------



## Toro




----------



## Ringo

The Main Directorate of Intelligence of Ukraine proposed to the office of President Zelensky to use russian citizens staying in Ukraine to replenish the exchange fund. MDI believes that all means are good for putting pressure on the Kremlin, and russian citizens are an ideal exchange fund.
But the terrorist state is the Russia. Please remember this!


----------



## Ringo

American mercenary Ben Valkro on war crimes in Ukraine. 








						Американский наемник Бен Валкро о военных преступлениях на Украине
					

Мы резали сухожилия и заставляли плыть, чтобы посмотреть как он будет плавать без сухожилий. Нам приказали не брать противника в плен. Убитый был из Центральной России. Ему было около 18 лет  американец Бен Велкро рассказал о расправе над российским военнослужащим под Харьковом…




					colonelcassad.livejournal.com


----------



## Ringo

Amnesty International has said the Ukrainian army is endangering the life of civilians by basing themselves in residential areas, in a report rejected by Ukrainian government representatives as placing blame on it for Russia’s invasion.








						Ukraine ‘endangers civilians’ with army bases in residential areas, says Amnesty
					

Ukraine government and international law experts argue report ignores wartime realities




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Ringo

Chilling footage from Donetsk: People are torn in half by Ukrainian shelling. 18+
One of the most brutal attacks by the Ukrainian army took place today in Donetsk. Chilling shots taken by eyewitnesses in the very center of the capital of the DPR are flying around social networks: a grandmother and granddaughter torn in two by shells and a distraught pensioner who identified the bodies of loved ones.

I wonder how the whining of the Ukrainian Nazis about shell starvation and lack of artillery and the fierce shelling of Donetsk correlate? It's obviously simple: it's a matter of pride for them to put the last cherished projectile among the civilian population, so that girls and old ladies who pass by accidentally die.
At such moments, it seems to me that some evil fate has gathered all the most vile freaks in one place and turned them into a terrorist regime that now rules in Ukraine and destroys it and people. And the collective West helps them in this.








						Леденящие кадры из Донецка: Людей разрывает пополам от украинского обстрела. 18+ - Михаил Дмитриев — КОНТ
					

Один из наиболее зверских обстрелов украинской армией произошел сегодня в Донецке. Соцсети облетают леденящие кадры, снятые очевидцами в самом центре столицы ДНР: разорванные снарядами надвое бабушка  | Леденящие кадры из Донецка: Людей разрывает пополам от украинского обстрела. 18+ |Автор...



					cont.ws


----------



## Uncensored2008

Ringo said:


> Amnesty International has said the Ukrainian army is endangering the life of civilians by basing themselves in residential areas, in a report rejected by Ukrainian government representatives as placing blame on it for Russia’s invasion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine ‘endangers civilians’ with army bases in residential areas, says Amnesty
> 
> 
> Ukraine government and international law experts argue report ignores wartime realities
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com



Why are you Russians still there?

Go home. You have your own country, stop being bullies.


----------



## para bellum

More Russian lies. 

Those images are from Toretsk, a small town midway between Bakhmut and Avdiivka. Russia shelled this same town on July 18 and killed 6 civilians. Yesterday they killed 8 more.

This was another Russian artillery attack on civilian targets- a public transport stop, some buildings, and a church. This is something we've seen over and over. Of the 1600+ Russian air strikes on Ukraine, only ~300 have been aimed at military targets. The rest have been civilian targets.









						Russian shelling kills eight in eastern town of Toretsk - Ukrainian governor
					

Eight people were killed and four were wounded in Russian artillery shelling in the eastern Ukrainian town of Toretsk in Donetsk region on Thursday, the regional governor said.




					www.reuters.com


----------



## Ringo

The moment the projectile hit the Donbass Palace hotel in the center of Donetsk.

Unfortunately, a woman who was just going about her business dies in these shots… And according to the some low life  scum here , it's the russians who are firing on themselves


----------



## Ringo

Uncensored2008 said:


> Why are you Russians still there?


There.., where?  I am russian and I am american citizen and who the hell are you?


----------



## Uncensored2008

Ringo said:


> The moment the projectile hit the Donbass Palace hotel in the center of Donetsk.
> 
> Unfortunately, a woman who was just going about her business dies in these shots… And according to the some low life  scum here , it's the russians who are firing on themselves


Donetsk is in Ukraine.

Russia has been attacking Ukraine for months, even since Biden funded their war effort.

The Russians need to go home. Nothing can ever make up for Stalin's genocide of Ethnic Ukrainians, but Putin is just compounding the atrocities. Go home.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Ringo said:


> There.., where?  I am russian and I am american citizen and who the hell are you?


You're a Russian troll. You commie fucks need to get out of Ukraine.


----------



## Ringo

The Israeli army strikes a residential building in the Gaza Strip. Do not expect any condemnation from the US or the EU - hypocrisy is not curable. It is only interesting what the "russian liberal figures", who left for this very Israel after February 24 will say now..


----------



## Ringo

The Ukrainian fascists struck the Zaporozhye Nuclear Power Plant again, damaging 2 power lines necessary for the operation of the reactors. After the shelling, a fire started.
No, bombing the largest nuclear power plant in Europe is not a war crime at all! You're wrong!

As a result of the arrival of a Grad MLRS missile at the maternity ward 17 of the Kuibyshev district hospital in Donetsk, 10 people were injured, including children. It was only by a lucky chance that no one died.
I don't see this news in all the world's media, as it was with the Mariupol maternity hospital.  Why?


----------



## Uncensored2008

Ringo said:


> The Israeli army strikes a residential building in the Gaza Strip. Do not expect any condemnation from the US or the EU - hypocrisy is not curable. It is only interesting what the "russian liberal figures", who left for this very Israel after February 24 will say now..


Like you, the PLO are terrorist cowards who hide among civilians and attack.


----------



## Ringo

Uncensored2008 said:


> Like you, the PLO are terrorist cowards who hide among civilians and attack.


No, you describe ukro army.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Ringo said:


> No, you describe ukro army.


Sad that you invaders are getting your ass kicked by your victims


----------



## Ringo

Uncensored2008 said:


> Sad that you invaders are getting your ass kicked by your victims


I what universe?


----------



## Ringo

Ukrainian nazis hit ammonia tanks in Donetsk. Chemical alert declared in Donetsk
A full-fledged chemical attack against the civilian population.
More weapons for Ukraine!


----------



## Ringo

Another 4 people in Donetsk became victims of the use of prohibited mines "Lepestok" by the ukrainian nazis , including a 15-year-old boy, who became a cripple. 
Once upon a time, anti-soviet propagandists-scoundrels came up with the idea that Stalin was worse than Hitler because "Hitler killed foreigners, and Stalin killed his own." This piece of propaganda is suitable for idiots. 
So, idiots, Zelensky is killing his own.


----------



## Ringo

The tactics of terror of the residents of the DPR from Ukraine continues
Over the past day, information has been received about the deaths of 5 civilians in the Kuibyshev district of Donetsk, the Chervonogvardeysky district of Makeyevka, Gorlovka, Zaitsevo. Injuries of varying severity were received by 15 civilians in Petrovsky, Kuibyshev districts of Donetsk, Gorlovka, Staromikhailovka, one from previously liberated territories – from Staromayorsky.

In the Kirovsky district of Donetsk, a child and a woman were injured on the PFM-1 Petal mine on Biryuzova Street. In two weeks, 41 civilians, including two children, were blown up on the "petals" in the DPR, one person was killed
Doctors managed to save the leg of fifteen-year-old Vladislav Mironov, after detonating a petal mine. But this is the tragedy of only one, out of thousands, victims of Ukrainian terror.


----------



## Ringo

On August 19, the Ministry of Defense of Russia officially announced the shooting of the AFU soldiers by the squad of the "Kraken" national battalion in the Kharkiv region.

The official representative of the Ministry of Defense Igor Konashenkov announced the offensive in the Kharkiv region. On August 14, he said, units of the 58th Motorized Infantry Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were defeated. This happened in the area of the occupied by the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation settlement of Udy.

— Under the onslaught of Russian troops, the remnants of the compound escaped from their positions and left this settlement. To prevent panic and intimidate the personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the nationalists of the armed formation "Kraken" demonstratively shot 100 servicemen of the 58th Motorized Infantry Brigade who left their positions," Igor Konashenkov stressed in his speech.

The Ukrainian military and officials have not yet commented on the statement of the Russian general. Earlier, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation repeatedly talked about violations of military conventions by national battalions, including the "Kraken".


----------



## Ringo

In Mexico, there was another murder of a journalist – the fourteenth since the beginning of the year.
Free journalists are being killed under Washington's nose and Washington is inactive...  Oh, yes, of course, Ukraine!


----------



## Ringo




----------



## Ringo




----------



## Ringo




----------



## Ringo

Ukrainian Armed Forces attacked Antonovsky Bridge with american HIMARS: 15 people were injured.

At least 15 people were injured as a result of an attack by Ukrainian troops on the Antonovsky Bridge in Kherson. This was reported by RIA Novosti with reference to a representative of the emergency services of the Kherson region. The bridge was struck on Monday at about 13:00 Moscow time.
 According to the emergency services, the shelling was carried out from american HIMARS jet systems at the place where the roadway was repaired. As a result, civilian employees of the repair team were injured. 

The russians need to form repair crews from prisoners of war. And let them work in shifts 24/7. Just not from the representatives of the Nazi battalion "Azov", Kiev will definitely fire at them. It is advisable to use foreign mercenaries sentenced to death for their crimes.


----------



## Ringo

Rada deputy Razumkov proposed to steal Russian gas and sell it to Europe: 
the former head of the Servant of the People party and ex-speaker of the Verkhovna Rada Dmitry Razumov proposed to confiscate russian gas supplied to Europe through Ukraine in order to resell it to EU countries. As the Ukrainian politician dreamed, blue fuel belongs to Russia before crossing the border with the EU, and, therefore, falls under the Ukrainian law on the confiscation of Russian assets. 

Quite in the spirit of the owners of the Ukrainian junta.


----------



## Ringo

As a result of the shelling of Donetsk, 2 residents were killed today. 
During the shelling of the VFU from positions in Orlovka in the Voroshilovsky district of the city, residential buildings and cars were smashed along 50 Years of the USSR St., Nurmagomedov Square, Chelyuskintsev St., Dzerzhinsky Ave., Artem St.. A man born in 1971 died in his car on Chelyuskintsev St., a man born in 2004 died on Dzerzhinsky Ave. NATO artillery shelling also damaged the Central Hotel on Artem St. and the administration building of the Head of the DPR, where a fire broke out.








						IMG_6110
					

IMG_6110




					ok.ru


----------



## Ringo

Russia has distributed in the UN Security Council and the General Assembly photo evidence of the shelling of the Zaporozhye NPP by the Ukrainian military. This was announced by the Permanent Representative of the Russian Federation to the UN Vasily Nebenzia.
The Russian diplomat stressed that the nuclear safety situation at the nuclear power plant has deteriorated over the past two weeks. According to him, the Ukrainian military continue to shell the territory of the NPP and the city of Energodar almost daily, thereby creating a real risk of a radiation accident with catastrophic consequences for the entire European continent.

Nebenzia called the continuation of Kiev's shelling of the Zaporozhye NPP a consequence of the criminal connivance of the West. The Permanent Representative pointed out that at the last meeting of the UN Security Council, none of the Western delegations "had the determination to call on the Kiev regime to stop the shelling of the NPP."

At the end of his speech, Nebenzia stressed that Moscow is ready to provide maximum assistance for the visit of the Zaporozhye delegation of the IAEA.

Earlier, the Russian Embassy in Washington stated that the irresponsible rhetoric of the United States is pushing Ukrainian troops to implement criminal plans fraught with a man-made catastrophe, the consequences of which Europe will have to cope with for many decades. The diplomats stressed that Washington's silence on all the facts of the shelling by the Ukrainian Armed Forces of the Zaporozhye NPP is unacceptable and only encourages the impunity of the Kiev regime, which continues to systematically strike at the Zaporozhye NPP.


----------



## Ringo




----------



## Ringo




----------



## Toro




----------



## JimH52

Toro said:


> View attachment 686599


Lots of Poootin lovers on here.


----------



## Ringo




----------



## Ringo

In Boryspil, Kiev region, the alley of Heroes of the Soviet Union, heroes of the war against nazism, _natives of the city and the district_, are being dismantled
Scum are in a hurry...
And nothing surprises me anymore in a country, where Satan rules.


----------



## Ringo




----------



## Ringo




----------



## Dissident

frigidweirdo said:


> Does America have this? Yes.


If you know any country – except modern Ukraine - where national minorities are divided into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, please tell the name of such a country. 

There was such a division in Nazi Germany where, for example, the Danish minority had all rights, the Lusatian Slavic minority had less right than Danes, and the Jewish minority had less right than Lusatians.

And we see the same pyramid in modern Ukraine when we consider the Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education.

For example, ethnic Crimean Tatars have more rights to use their native language – the Tatar language – during the education in state schools; ethnic Hungarians have less rights than Crimean Tatars to use their native language – the Hungarian – during the education; and ethnic Russians have less rights to use their native language – the Russian - than Hungarians.

Therefore, I ask the following question - *Isn’t the Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education similar to Nazi laws?*


----------



## toomuchtime_

Dissident said:


> If you know any country – except modern Ukraine - where national minorities are divided into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, please tell the name of such a country.
> 
> There was such a division in Nazi Germany where, for example, the Danish minority had all rights, the Lusatian Slavic minority had less right than Danes, and the Jewish minority had less right than Lusatians.
> 
> And we see the same pyramid in modern Ukraine when we consider the Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education.
> 
> For example, ethnic Crimean Tatars have more rights to use their native language – the Tatar language – during the education in state schools; ethnic Hungarians have less rights than Crimean Tatars to use their native language – the Hungarian – during the education; and ethnic Russians have less rights to use their native language – the Russian - than Hungarians.
> 
> Therefore, I ask the following question - *Isn’t the Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education similar to Nazi laws?*


Not to a sane person.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Dissident said:


> If you know any country – except modern Ukraine - where national minorities are divided into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, please tell the name of such a country.
> 
> There was such a division in Nazi Germany where, for example, the Danish minority had all rights, the Lusatian Slavic minority had less right than Danes, and the Jewish minority had less right than Lusatians.
> 
> And we see the same pyramid in modern Ukraine when we consider the Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education.
> 
> For example, ethnic Crimean Tatars have more rights to use their native language – the Tatar language – during the education in state schools; ethnic Hungarians have less rights than Crimean Tatars to use their native language – the Hungarian – during the education; and ethnic Russians have less rights to use their native language – the Russian - than Hungarians.
> 
> Therefore, I ask the following question - *Isn’t the Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education similar to Nazi laws?*



The USA. The Native Americans have reservations which have their own rules. Gambling can happen on reservations, but often not in the rest of the state.


----------



## JimH52

Dissident said:


> If you know any country – except modern Ukraine - where national minorities are divided into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, please tell the name of such a country.
> 
> There was such a division in Nazi Germany where, for example, the Danish minority had all rights, the Lusatian Slavic minority had less right than Danes, and the Jewish minority had less right than Lusatians.
> 
> And we see the same pyramid in modern Ukraine when we consider the Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education.
> 
> For example, ethnic Crimean Tatars have more rights to use their native language – the Tatar language – during the education in state schools; ethnic Hungarians have less rights than Crimean Tatars to use their native language – the Hungarian – during the education; and ethnic Russians have less rights to use their native language – the Russian - than Hungarians.
> 
> Therefore, I ask the following question - *Isn’t the Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education similar to Nazi laws?*


No Ivan.....


----------



## Persuader

jbrownson0831 said:


> The Dims support the Ukraine because this is where all the millions are laundered and they get their cuts.


You russian propagandists are looking dumber by the minute....the more you post the more you lose.

Not even to mention of these yellow bastards posting on this topic are stupid and coinfused so called conservatives and republicanss....who are hurting republican chances in the midterms big time.


----------



## JimH52

Persuader said:


> You russian propagandists are looking dumber by the minute....the more you post the more you lose.
> 
> Not even to mention of these yellow bastards posting on this topic are stupid and coinfused so called conservatives and republicanss....who are hurting republican chances in the midterms big time.


Poootin has many employees on social media posting his propaganda.


----------



## Persuader

Dissident said:


> If you know any country – except modern Ukraine - where national minorities are divided into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, please tell the name of such a country.
> 
> There was such a division in Nazi Germany where, for example, the Danish minority had all rights, the Lusatian Slavic minority had less right than Danes, and the Jewish minority had less right than Lusatians.
> 
> And we see the same pyramid in modern Ukraine when we consider the Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education.
> 
> For example, ethnic Crimean Tatars have more rights to use their native language – the Tatar language – during the education in state schools; ethnic Hungarians have less rights than Crimean Tatars to use their native language – the Hungarian – during the education; and ethnic Russians have less rights to use their native language – the Russian - than Hungarians.
> 
> Therefore, I ask the following question - *Isn’t the Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education similar to Nazi laws?*


Russian propagandists have attempted to muddy the waters by bringing in alleged Nazi b.s.

All you need to know is that a totalitarian nation (Russia) invaded one of its neighboring countries....a vain attempt by putin to re-establih the Russian Empire which folded decades ago.

In so doing putin has committed war crimes....targeting the civilian population.


----------



## JimH52

Persuader said:


> Russian propagandists have attempted to muddy the waters by bringing in alleged Nazi b.s.
> 
> All you need to know is that a totalitarian nation (Russia) invaded one of its neighboring countries....a vain attempt by putin to re-establih the Russian Empire which folded decades ago.
> 
> In so doing putin has committed war crimes....targeting the civilian population.


And now he is getting a spanking by the Ukrainian army, which is a third or less, the size of the Russian army.  This has weakened the Russian nation and it's army.  It will take years to recover from the Poootin blunder.

But the Russian candidate, trump, will continue to praise Poootin as a Genius.


----------



## Dissident

frigidweirdo said:


> The Native Americans have reservations which have their own rules. Gambling can happen on reservations, but often not in the rest of the state.



Your example has nothing to do with the subject of this thread, i.e., it has nothing to do with the Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education.

This Law divides ethnic minorities into three categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights.

But you cannot say that Native Americans have more rights than, for example, White Americans in opening casinos.

The town Black Hawk has casinos although it has the following racial makeup


> 84.75% White, 3.39% African American, 0.85% Native American, 5.93% from other races, and 5.08% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race are 10.17% of the population.


See Wikipedia

I repeat once again.

I know only two countries – Nazi Germany and modern Ukraine – with *a three-level division *of ethnic minorities, please see my previous post.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Dissident said:


> Your example has nothing to do with the subject of this thread, i.e., it has nothing to do with the Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education.
> 
> This Law divides ethnic minorities into three categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights.
> 
> But you cannot say that Native Americans have more rights than, for example, White Americans in opening casinos.
> 
> The town Black Hawk has casinos although it has the following racial makeup
> 
> See Wikipedia
> 
> I repeat once again.
> 
> I know only two countries – Nazi Germany and modern Ukraine – with *a three-level division *of ethnic minorities, please see my previous post.


You are a liar.  The education law names Ukrainian as the national language and requires all students to study it after fifth grade, but does not forbid any students from also study other languages.  Putin was outraged that Ukraine had a national language and certain other countries and people such as Hungary and Tartars complained that their communities would have to study Ukrainian instead of their ethnic languages, there is no basis in fact for claiming that some minorities have fewer rights than others.  Were you not such a brain dead bigot, you would understand the law benefits all Ukrainian by improving the cohesiveness of Ukrainian citizens and enables minority students to compete more effectively in searching for jobs rather than being held back a lack of knowledge of Ukrainian.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Dissident said:


> Your example has nothing to do with the subject of this thread, i.e., it has nothing to do with the Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education.
> 
> This Law divides ethnic minorities into three categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights.
> 
> But you cannot say that Native Americans have more rights than, for example, White Americans in opening casinos.
> 
> The town Black Hawk has casinos although it has the following racial makeup
> 
> See Wikipedia
> 
> I repeat once again.
> 
> I know only two countries – Nazi Germany and modern Ukraine – with *a three-level division *of ethnic minorities, please see my previous post.



Then it's pointless having this conversation because you're going to see whatever it is you want to see, ignore everything else. Bye.


----------



## Dissident

toomuchtime_ said:


> Putin was,,,



This thread isn’t about Putin; this thread deals with the question: Has Ukrainian legislation features of Nazi legislation or it hasn’t?


----------



## Dissident

toomuchtime_ said:


> You are a liar.



You are denying something but aren’t saying what are you denying.
Please tell what item of the following ones you deny?

*Item 1*
Ukraine has the Law on Secondary Education (see this Law on the official website of the Ukrainian parliament).

*Item 2*
The Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education includes the Article 5 “Мова освіти в закладах загальної середньої освіти” (Language of education in institutions of general secondary education).

*Item 3*
The Article 5 of The Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education provides that, for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars have more rights to use their native language – the Tatar language – during the education in state schools; ethnic Hungarians have less rights than Crimean Tatars to use their native language – the Hungarian – during the education; and ethnic Russians have less rights to use their native language – the Russian - than Hungarians.

*Item 4*
Such three-level division of ethnic minorities existed in Nazi Germany (see my previous post):

ethnic minorities of the category A had more rights;
ethnic minorities of the category B had less rights than the category A, but they had more rights than the category C;
ethnic minorities of the category C had less rights than the category B.
*Item 5*
There was not and is not any country in the world – except Nazi Germany and modern Ukraine – which had or has such three-level division of ethnic minorities with respect to their rights.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Dissident said:


> You are denying something but aren’t saying what are you denying.
> Please tell what item of the following ones you deny?
> 
> *Item 1*
> Ukraine has the Law on Secondary Education (see this Law on the official website of the Ukrainian parliament).
> 
> *Item 2*
> The Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education includes the Article 5 “Мова освіти в закладах загальної середньої освіти” (Language of education in institutions of general secondary education).
> 
> *Item 3*
> The Article 5 of The Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education provides that, for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars have more rights to use their native language – the Tatar language – during the education in state schools; ethnic Hungarians have less rights than Crimean Tatars to use their native language – the Hungarian – during the education; and ethnic Russians have less rights to use their native language – the Russian - than Hungarians.
> 
> *Item 4*
> Such three-level division of ethnic minorities existed in Nazi Germany (see my previous post):
> 
> ethnic minorities of the category A had more rights;
> ethnic minorities of the category B had less rights than the category A, but they had more rights than the category C;
> ethnic minorities of the category C had less rights than the category B.
> *Item 5*
> There was not and is not any country in the world – except Nazi Germany and modern Ukraine – which had or has such three-level division of ethnic minorities with respect to their rights.


Again you serve up the same stupid racist garbage.  The law made Ukrainian the official language of Ukraine and that drove the Russian government and the Hungarian government crazy and you present solid evidence it still drives them crazy.  There is nothing in the law that singles out Tartars for special treatment.  Your entire post is bullshit and only expresses anti Ukrainian sentiment within the Russia and Hungarian governments.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Dissident said:


> This thread isn’t about Putin; this thread deals with the question: Has Ukrainian legislation features of Nazi legislation or it hasn’t?


We both know there are no similarities and you are parroting Putin's bullshit claims about Ukraine being run by Nazis.


----------



## JimH52

toomuchtime_ said:


> Again you serve up the same stupid racist garbage.  The law made Ukrainian the official language of Ukraine and that drove the Russian government and the Hungarian government crazy and you present solid evidence it still drives them crazy.  There is nothing in the law that singles out Tartars for special treatment.  Your entire post is bullshit and only expresses anti Ukrainian sentiment within the Russia and Hungarian governments.


Nothing...NOTHING....justifies Russia attacking a sovereign country and committing barbaric war crimes in the process.  Poootin is a war criminal.   There is nowhere in the world he can go...besides his allies and Mar a Lago where he is not in danger of being arrested.  

Anyone defending him is just as guilty and probably a paid mouth piece.


----------



## Dissident

toomuchtime_ said:


> Your entire post is bullshit...



I repeat once again - you are denying something but aren’t saying what are you denying.

Please tell *WHAT ITEM* from my previous post you deny?

Do you deny the item 2?

Do you deny the item 4?

And so on.


----------



## Dissident

JimH52 said:


> ... Russia attacking ...
> 
> ...Poootin is ...



Users with the Ukrainian flag on their avatars have created on the USMB *a vast number* *of threads* about “Russia attacking”, “Poootin” etc.

But *very few threads* deal here with the questions: “What kind of a country is modern Ukraine?”, “What kind of legislation has it?”, etc.

And even in these very few threads – e.g. in this one - users with the Ukrainian flag on their avatars don’t want to tell about their country or its laws and try to steer the conversation towards “Russia attacking” and “Poootin” instead.


----------



## para bellum

The law doesn't prevent anyone from taking classes in other languages, it sets minimum standards for institutions that are state funded. It guarantees that indigenous people and minorities have access to courses in their own languages- IOW it requires state funded educational institutions to provide coursework in indigenous and other minority languages as well as Ukrainian.

Lots of countries have state languages, it doesn't make them Nazis.

The law requires schools to maintain a higher level of alternative language course for indigenous minorities than it does for EU languages, and puts EU languages above non-EU languages.

*Article 5. Language of education in institutions of general secondary education*

1. The language of the educational process in institutions of general secondary education is the state language.
Everyone who obtains a full general secondary education in an educational institution studies the state language in accordance with state standards.

2. Every student is guaranteed the right to complete general secondary education in the state language in state, communal and corporate educational institutions, which is ensured by organizing the teaching of all educational subjects (integrated courses) in the state language, except for cases specified by this Law.

3. Persons belonging to indigenous peoples or national minorities of Ukraine are guaranteed and provided with the right to study the language of the respective indigenous people or national minority in state, communal and corporate institutions of general secondary education or through national cultural societies.

4. Persons belonging to the indigenous peoples of Ukraine have the right to complete general secondary education in a state, communal or corporate educational institution in the language of the respective indigenous people along with the state language.

5. Persons belonging to national minorities of Ukraine have the right to receive primary education in a state, communal or corporate educational institution in the language of the respective national minority along with the state language.

6. Persons who belong to the national minorities of Ukraine, whose languages are official languages of the European Union, and exercise the right to study in the relevant languages in state, communal or corporate educational institutions, acquire:
basic secondary education in the state language in the amount of at least 20 percent of the annual amount of study time in the 5th grade with an annual increase of this amount (at least 40 percent in the 9th grade);
specialized secondary education in the state language in the amount of at least 60 percent of the annual amount of study time.
Persons belonging to other national minorities of Ukraine acquire basic and specialized secondary education in the state language at state, communal or corporate educational institutions in the amount of at least 80 percent of the annual amount of study time.
The list of educational subjects (integrated courses) studied in the state language and the language of the national minority is determined by the educational program of the educational institution in accordance with the requirements of state standards and taking into account the peculiarities of the language environment.

7. The right to education in the language of the indigenous people or national minority of Ukraine, along with the state language, is realized in separate classes with education in the corresponding language, which are opened in accordance with the requirements of this Law.

8. Persons with hearing impairment have the right to study Ukrainian sign language and study Ukrainian sign language.

9. Educational programs of general secondary education institutions may provide for the teaching of one or more subjects (integrated courses) alongside the state language in English or another official language of the European Union.

10. Private educational institutions that provide full general secondary education at the expense of individuals and/or legal entities have the right to freely choose the language of the educational process (except for educational institutions that receive public funds) and are obliged to ensure that students master the state language in accordance with state standards.

11. The state promotes the creation and operation of institutions of general secondary education abroad, in which teaching is carried out in the Ukrainian language or the Ukrainian language is studied.


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## Dissident

para bellum said:


> Lots of countries have state languages, it doesn't make them Nazis.



Ukrainian users make me repeat the same things again and again.

Yesterday I wrote the post, which consisted of 5 items (see here), and I asked: “What item from this post of mine do you deny?”

I have repeated this question, I have written it in blue color, in big letters and in bold print – *NO EFFECT!!!*

Ukrainian users don’t answer this question of mine.


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## para bellum

Dissident said:


> Yesterday I wrote the post, which consisted of 5 items (see here), and I asked: “What item from this post of mine do you deny?”


Yes I read the post, that's what I was responding to.

Items 1 and 2 are true- Ukraine does have a law and it includes article 5.

Item 3 is false, it's a complete misrepresentation of article 5 which I posted in it's entirety.

Items 4 and 5 are your own ramblings and have no relevance to Ukraine.


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## toomuchtime_

Dissident said:


> I repeat once again - you are denying something but aren’t saying what are you denying.
> 
> Please tell *WHAT ITEM* from my previous post you deny?
> 
> Do you deny the item 2?
> 
> Do you deny the item 4?
> 
> And so on.


The law does not discriminate among ethnic groups; in fact, it attempts to level the playing field by requiring all groups to learn Ukraine's national language, Ukrainian, so they can compete in the job market and politics more effectively.  There is nothing in the law that denies any rights to one group and not to others; these things exist only in your twisted mind.


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## Dissident

para bellum said:


> Item 3 is false, it's a complete misrepresentation of article 5 which I posted in it's entirety.



It has no sense to discuss something with persons who constantly lie.

If somebody is interested in the subject of discussion, please open the Ukrainian law in question on the official website of the Ukrainian parliament.

Please find the phrase “Стаття 5. Мова освіти в закладах загальної середньої освіти”.

And please copy item 4 and 6, i.e. copy the following text into Google Translator.



> 4. Особи, які належать до корінних народів України, мають право здобувати повну загальну середню освіту в державному, комунальному чи корпоративному закладі освіти мовою відповідного корінного народу поряд з державною мовою.
> 
> 6. Особи, які належать до національних меншин України, мови яких є офіційними мовами Європейського Союзу, та реалізують право на навчання відповідними мовами в державних, комунальних чи корпоративних закладах освіти, здобувають:
> 
> базову середню освіту державною мовою в обсязі не менше 20 відсотків річного обсягу навчального часу у 5 класі із щорічним збільшенням такого обсягу (не менше 40 відсотків у 9 класі);
> 
> профільну середню освіту державною мовою в обсязі не менше 60 відсотків річного обсягу навчального часу.
> 
> Особи, які належать до інших національних меншин України, здобувають у державних, комунальних чи корпоративних закладах освіти базову та профільну середню освіту державною мовою в обсязі не менше 80 відсотків річного обсягу навчального часу.



There is a clear division of ethnic minorities into 3 categories.

Ethnic minorities which are recognized as indigenous peoples - in Ukraine they are only Crimean Tatars, Crimean Karaites and Krymchaks - have more rights.

Ethnic minorities, whose languages are official languages of the European Union - e.g. ethnic Hungarians or Romanians - have less rights than so-called indigenous peoples, but have more rights than ethnic minorities, whose languages are not official languages of the European Union - i.e. they have more rights than Russians, Belarusans etc.


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## para bellum

Dissident said:


> Ethnic minorities which are recognized as indigenous peoples - in Ukraine they are only Crimean Tatars, Crimean Karaites and Krymchaks - have more rights.
> 
> Ethnic minorities, whose languages are official languages of the European Union - e.g. ethnic Hungarians or Romanians - have less rights than so-called indigenous peoples, but have more rights than ethnic minorities, whose languages are not official languages of the European Union - i.e. they have more rights than Russians, Belarusans etc.


I already posted the relevant article from that page in English. Articles 4 and 6 do not address minorities, 4 sets definitions of each level of education, and 6 guarantee an equal access to the system to everyone.

The law does not create different educational structures for different classes of people. It mandates that publicly funded schools accommodate indigenous minorities to a higher degree than non-indigenous minorities, and EU language minorities to a higher degree than non-EU language minorities.

School curricula cannot be maintained for every conceivable language- it is simply not practical. *There is nothing preventing someone from taking the full curriculum in their own language in a private school, provided the school graduates students who are fluent in the official language as well.*

As article 7 points out:

*Establishing special rules and/or taking measures to ensure the possibility of obtaining a full general secondary education, including provision of reasonable accommodation, is not considered discrimination.*


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## para bellum

And neither does the law _prevent_ a school from offering classes at a higher level than the minimums for non-indigenous or non-EU language minorities. The law leaves it to the local administrators to determine what level of accommodation is appropriate. The only thing they are obligated to is meeting the minimums.


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## LA RAM FAN

Dissident said:


> In the middle of April, I published an article which dealt with the question whether some Ukrainian laws are the Nazi ones (see here).
> This article was discussed on USMB (see here) and nobody could disprove that these laws are the Nazi ones, indeed.
> 
> It’s an obvious fact that, for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars - according to these laws - are “first-rate” citizens of Ukraine and have more rights; ethnic Hungarians are “second-rate” citizens and have less rights than Crimean Tatars; and ethnic Russians are “third-rate” citizens and have less rights than Hungarians.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> It’s another obvious fact, that Ukrainian rulers always make territorial claims to the Russian Crimean Peninsula, where ethnic Russians amount to 67.9% of population (see here). *
> It means that the Ukrainian rulers want to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> At the same time, Ukraine intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join NATO etc. The Russian government many times tried to persuade the Ukrainian rulers to remain nonaligned, to let Crimea stay in Russia etc. But Ukraine continued to arm itself etc.
> 
> At a certain point of time the Russian government decided that the actions of the Ukrainian rulers reached a dangerous point and very soon the situation could become even more dangerous. And then, the Russian government decided to start a military operation against Ukraine.
> 
> But the U.S. supported and support all Ukrainian actions including its claims to the Crimean Peninsula – despite of the Nazi laws in Ukraine.
> *It means that the U.S. support, inter alia, the Ukrainian plan to turn 67.9% of Crimean population into citizens of the “third-rate”!*
> 
> The question naturally arises – Why do the U.S. support such a country as Ukraine?
> 
> My opinion is that it doesn’t matter for the U.S. what kind of a country Ukraine is. The U.S. want to reduce Russian influence in Europe; the U.S. want to sell their liquefied gas in Europe etc.
> Therefore, in my opinion, the U.S. are ready to support even Nazis if these Nazis are hostile towards Russia.
> 
> Source


Our biggest resident paid trolls of usmb who hate America and are commies are either trying to laugh off these facts or giving thumbs down so you are obviously onto something and struck a nerve code in them.


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## Ringo

"In the previous decade, the cost of one-month Euro futures contracts rarely exceeded 30 euros per MWh. The EU's decision to reduce purchases from the Russian Federation caused a mad rush to buy fuel in other countries, raising prices to 300 euros per MWh in August, "
Russophobia is an expensive thing.
The ghouls consider the ukrainian provocation only as a successful attempt to save the US shale industry by reorienting Europe to US shale, during which Europe will pay an order of magnitude more for energy.

That's trillions $ of profits. And when has Capital been stopped by thousands of deaths?


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## Unkotare

LA RAM FAN said:


> Our biggest resident paid trolls of usmb ....


That would be _you_, LA Rain Man.


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## Ringo

SCUM
The Ukrofascists shot a monument to the soldiers, who died in the Second World War, who defended and liberated Ukraine from fascism.
The whole essence of ukrainian nationalism is to fight with civilians and with the dead. But these scum shot in memory of their grandfathers.


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## Ringo




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## toomuchtime_

Ringo said:


>


After Stalin starved nearly four million Ukrainians to death to put down a Ukrainian independence movement only  a few years before, the nazis must have seemed to be saviors to the Ukrainians.  Now Putin is threatening a second genocide against Ukraine for the same reason as before, to put down the independence of Ukraine: proof positive Russia is not part of the civilize world.


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## Ringo

toomuchtime_ said:


> After Stalin starved nearly four million Ukrainians to death to put down a Ukrainian independence movement only  a few years before


Do they let you out of the psychiatric clinic on weekdays?


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## Ringo




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## LA RAM FAN

jbrownson0831 said:


> The Dims support the Ukraine because this is where all the millions are laundered and they get their cuts.


 You nailed it.


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## LA RAM FAN

Ringo said:


>


 You will never hear any of thst news from the corporate controlled media of course.


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## LA RAM FAN

Baron Von Murderpaws said:


> How do you expect the DemonicRats to launder our tax dollars and funnel them back to the DNC, without the help of Nazi-esque traitors and puppets???????


 You triggered our resident trollboy so you are onto something.


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## LA RAM FAN

Rigby5 said:


> The Ukraine is one of the most reclusive and racist countries in the world.
> That is why 80% of the guards at Hitler's death camps in WWII were Ukrainian.
> Like Demjanjuk at Sobibor.
> The Ukraine deliberately started this war, by murdering ethnic Russians, stealing Russian oil, violating treaties, trying to put NATO nukes on Russia's border, etc.
> 
> But even more important, is that the US not only is going to lose this war, but may never recover from that loss.
> We already had a dangerous $45 trillion national debt, and Biden just gave the Ukraine another $40 billion in our most expensive weapons.
> That not only is illegal, but risks default.
> The world could easily decide to drop the US dollar as its reserve currency.
> Remember it is China who carries most of our national debt load.
> Russia has captured many of the weapons we sent, so we are giving away our secrets.
> Ultimately Russia has to win, even if that means nukes.
> And we are totally unprepared for the consequences of our own stupidity.


 You triggered our resident trolls of usmb who hate America so you are onto something.


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## badger2

para bellum said:


> I already posted the relevant article from that page in English. Articles 4 and 6 do not address minorities, 4 sets definitions of each level of education, and 6 guarantee an equal access to the system to everyone.
> 
> The law does not create different educational structures for different classes of people. It mandates that publicly funded schools accommodate indigenous minorities to a higher degree than non-indigenous minorities, and EU language minorities to a higher degree than non-EU language minorities.
> 
> School curricula cannot be maintained for every conceivable language- it is simply not practical. *There is nothing preventing someone from taking the full curriculum in their own language in a private school, provided the school graduates students who are fluent in the official language as well.*
> 
> As article 7 points out:
> 
> *Establishing special rules and/or taking measures to ensure the possibility of obtaining a full general secondary education, including provision of reasonable accommodation, is not considered discrimination.*


Not buying it. The Navajo began a medical dictionary, then quit. Obviously, there were no words for the concept in their language.


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## Ringo

Ukraine suffered a comms outage when 1,300 SpaceX satellite units went offline over funding issues | CNN Politics
					

Ukraine's fears that its troops  may lose access to Elon Musk's crucial Starlink internet service deepened in the past week after 1,300 of the military's satellite units went offline, according to  two sources familiar with the outage.




					edition.cnn.com


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## Ringo

And every time they are surprised there at the "discovery" of Nazism in Ukraine. It's not even funny anymore


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## Ringo




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