# ~Suicide~



## Dabs (May 14, 2011)

*Have you ever contemplated suicide??
Have you ever tried and someone rescued you??..or maybe you decided against it at the very last moment??
Do you know anyone who has committed suicide??*


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## Provocateur (May 14, 2011)

Why do you ask, Dabs?


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## Tank (May 14, 2011)

We all know who is commiting suicide, America


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## Cal (May 14, 2011)

Dabs said:


> *Have you ever contemplated suicide??
> Have you ever tried and someone rescued you??..or maybe you decided against it at the very last moment??
> Do you know anyone who has committed suicide??*



I'll be the first to admit.. I have.

About two years ago, I went through a stage of great depression, where I comtemplated ending it nearly every day. But everytime I would start having thoughts of my future.. and life _after_ the depression. Boy, am I glad I didn't end it. 9 months ago I met the love of my life.. I would've missed all of this, had I listened to the silly, selfish voices in my head telling me that no one cared.

Depression is a bitch.. and after going through it, I'll never make light of it again. I'm just glad I made it through that difficult time in my life.. .

To anyone that is going through that point right now.. Just hold on.. It's cliche, but things really *do* get better!


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## uscitizen (May 14, 2011)

I will likely commit suicide in the coming months if I do not die first.


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## xsited1 (May 14, 2011)

Dabs said:


> *Have you ever contemplated suicide??
> Have you ever tried and someone rescued you??..or maybe you decided against it at the very last moment??
> Do you know anyone who has committed suicide??*



Yes, I have years ago because of extreme grief and sorrow.  I had too many responsibilities to think about it for very long and I've got a big family and support group.  I've since discovered that what I went through is all to common.  

I don't know anyone personally who committed suicide, but I do know of a few through friends and message boards.  It's devastating for all involved, but I understand why someone might feel they need to do it.  It's critically important that if you know someone who has recently gone through severe emotional trauma to keep an eye on them and be there as much as possible.


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## Douger (May 14, 2011)

MY B.I.L used his house as an ATM machine in 2004. New kitchen, barn, 2 new SUV's, a vacation, big screen, new bathrooms,wood flooring.......the whole movie.
I gently and calmly explained to him it was all a very big mistake.
"You're all going down you fucking idiot !"
He told me I was a full of shit, paranoid conspiracy freakoid and that his GM plant was rocking and he could get more overtime than he wanted.
I left the sinking ship.

 A few months later he got notice that the plant was closing permanently.
 His wife found him hanging in the barn a few daze later.
Previous to the U.A.W. he was a military meathead. It's a wonder he didn't use a flag to hang himself with.
He used the winch cable off of his new Visa bought bass boat instead.


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## Mad Scientist (May 14, 2011)

My ex wife's boyfriend hung himself almost 2 years ago. At first I felt bad for him then I realized: "He's probably better off now".


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## dilloduck (May 14, 2011)

Whatever would depressed people do if they didn't have the option ?


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## AquaAthena (May 14, 2011)

Dabs said:


> *Have you ever contemplated suicide??
> Have you ever tried and someone rescued you??..or maybe you decided against it at the very last moment??
> Do you know anyone who has committed suicide??*



Interesting article I was just reading an hour ago, about _suicide kits_  I had never heard of even though I live in OR:***

The state House in Oregon is expected to vote early next week on whether to impose a crackdown on companies that sell so-called "suicide kits," which contain hoods or other items intended to help a person end his or her life.

The bill was proposed in response to the death of a 29-year-old Eugene man, Nick Klonoski, who killed himself using a suicide kit he ordered through the mail from a California company. 

The state Senate unanimously approved the bill Monday.

Kits like the one Klonoski used cost $60 and contain a plastic bag that fits over the head, along with plastic tubing that can be attached to a tank of helium gas. They can be purchased by anyone at any time, without the consultation of a doctor.

_This Death with Dignity Act is the only one I have been familiar with and am in favor of:

Oregon is one of just a few states that allow doctors to help terminally ill patients end their lives early in certain circumstances. But lawmakers said companies and individuals who provide suicide kits should be prosecuted because they lack safeguards and take advantage of the vulnerable._
more:  Oregon Moves Closer to Crackdown on &#39;Suicide Kits&#39; - FoxNews.com


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## Mr.Fitnah (May 14, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtp14ikRvxo]YouTube - Southland Tales - official trailer[/ame]


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## JBeukema (May 14, 2011)




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## hortysir (May 14, 2011)

I heard of a Plastic Surgeon that hung himself


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## Grace (May 14, 2011)

Dabs said:


> *Have you ever contemplated suicide??
> Have you ever tried and someone rescued you??..or maybe you decided against it at the very last moment??
> Do you know anyone who has committed suicide??*



Yes.
No.
Yes.


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## percysunshine (May 14, 2011)

Suicide is a long term solution to a short term problem.


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## ABikerSailor (May 14, 2011)

In response to the OP's questions.........

Yeah.  I have contemplated suicide, on several occasions.  On one occasion I was going to drink drain cleaner, because the things I'd been through were almost too much for me to handle.  I was 13 at the time.

On another occasion, I'd been drinking at a bar, and was contemplating my life.  I'd gotten separated, had a son, and was slowly watching my life go down the toilet.  I decided to drive my bicycle in front of a semi truck and end it all.  I knew it would be quick, and called a friend of mine to tell them thanks for being there, but I couldn't take it anymore.  They called someone else and saved my life.

In about the end of 1994, I again took assessment of my life and decided that I no longer wanted to be here.  I called a friend of mine named Ned and told him thanks for being my mentor, but again........the pain was too much and I wanted to end it all.

He asked me if I could hold off long enough to meet him for lunch at Howard Johnson's.  I told him that because he'd taught me lots of good stuff, I owed him at least that much.

I went up to the Ho Jo's in my uniform and cried like a baby when he read me Chapter 9 of Og Mandino's book "The Greatest Miracle In The World".  It's called The God Memorandum.

Changed my life actually..............

I then realized that we live to say no to death.  I also learned that when other people's voices were too weak to say no, as a fellow human being, I was obligated to help them shout "NO" when THEIR voices were too weak, because my voice was strong.

Bottom line?  If you feel really bad about yourself, go out in the world and look for someone to help.  Doesn't really matter who or what you do.  Give a couple of bucks to some homeless person on the street, hold the door open for someone behind you, offer to pay for the coffee for the person behind you........

Trust me...........do those things, and living becomes the most important thing in the world to you.

Why?  Simple............because you're useful to someone else (actually, you're God's agent on Earth, looking for someone to help), you have a good reason to live.

Works for me anyway.


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## Mr. H. (May 14, 2011)

Yeah, I was there but something stopped it and it wasn't me. Nuff sed.


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## 007 (May 14, 2011)

percysunshine said:


> Suicide is a long term solution to a short term problem.



Precisely.

Yes, my brother committed suicide, and quite frankly, I don't have a very high opinion of anyone that has done it. I think it's a chicken shit way out.

No one knows how good their life can be or what they can ever accomplish unless they live out their life.


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## Toro (May 14, 2011)

No.  Never.  So I can't commiserate in any way.

However, I've always thought of suicide as a permanent solution to a temporary problem.  Unless there is some untreatable disease, whatever is bothering a person will almost certainly go away at some point.  It might be a while down the road, but it will go.  If you have depression, that is physiological, no different than having a broken arm.  One gets that treated.  And if there are no treatments that work now, eventually there will be.  If you kill yourself, you will never get a chance to experience the good things in life that are down the road.  You can't take it back.


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## Dabs (May 14, 2011)

Douger said:


> MY B.I.L used his house as an ATM machine in 2004. New kitchen, barn, 2 new SUV's, a vacation, big screen, new bathrooms,wood flooring.......the whole movie.
> I gently and calmly explained to him it was all a very big mistake.
> "You're all going down you fucking idiot !"
> He told me I was a full of shit, paranoid conspiracy freakoid and that his GM plant was rocking and he could get more overtime than he wanted.
> ...



*I am so very sorry to hear this~*


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## Dabs (May 14, 2011)

Provocateur said:


> Why do you ask, Dabs?



*I ask because I was curious to know if I was alone.
I have contemplated suicide many times and tried it once~
My life hasn't been the greatest, and I'm not going to tell yunz a pity story about me, but let's just say, I have thought about it more times than I care to admit.
And the one time I did try, there must have been a higher being that decided I have unfinished business, because here I am, still here!
I don't think of this situation anymore........my life is still fucked up so to speak, but I have learned new ways to get past the 'awful'.*


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## Two Thumbs (May 14, 2011)

My future wife tried once a few years before meeting me, then once shortly after we met.

Apparently I helped her see it was worth living.


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## ABikerSailor (May 14, 2011)

Dabs said:


> Provocateur said:
> 
> 
> > Why do you ask, Dabs?
> ...



You wanna know why you're still alive?

Simple, actually.........................

You've made it through some very tough tests.  Your mission now is to look for others who are going through the same thing, and showing them the way out, so that they can help others get through also.

Like I said........living is saying no to death.


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## JBeukema (May 14, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg8s8gX_9BI]YouTube - scamper deaths - The Igor Movie[/ame]


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## Dabs (May 14, 2011)

JBeukema said:


> YouTube - scamper deaths - The Igor Movie



*Dude, seriously, I'm a bit hesitant to click on that ~LoL~
Is it going to scare me shitless??
Make me laugh??
Make perfect sense or what??
I have this warped sense of humor...and I do mean warped, thus the reason for the questions *


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## JBeukema (May 14, 2011)




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## Phoenix (May 14, 2011)

Dabs said:


> JBeukema said:
> 
> 
> > YouTube - scamper deaths - The Igor Movie
> ...



You can trust JB.


On this one. It's warped funny.


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## Dabs (May 14, 2011)

*Thank you Phoenix!! *smiles**


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## JBeukema (May 14, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maRhdRXGqXs]YouTube - Dismantled - What A Tragedy[/ame]


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## JBeukema (May 14, 2011)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKjzDU7V7es"]YouTube - DARK TRANQUILLITY - Misery's Crown (OFFICIAL VIDEO)[/ame]

All has now been broken
On streets I dare not walk
Freedom is an illusion
I build my fences high
If there was something out there
I've learned not to expect
There's a hundred million reasons
Not to care

Don't bring it
Don't bring it
Don't bring your misery down on me

Don't bring it
Don't bring it
Don't bring your misery down on me
Wear misery's crown

As always in these matters
You broke the deal of deals
And wasted what was given
To revel in your mess
I gave up all for nothing
I tried my best and failed
There's a thousand million reasons
Never to share again

This is how it all begins
This is how it all begins

Don't bring it
Don't bring it
Don't bring your misery down on me

Don't bring it
Don't bring it
Don't bring your misery down on me
Wear misery's crown

This is how it all begins

Come now
Come now
Come now

Don't bring it
Don't bring it
Don't bring your misery down on me

Don't bring it
Don't bring it
Don't bring your misery down on me
Wear misery's crown


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## Phoenix (May 14, 2011)

My best friend's husband, who became a very good friend of mine as well, was suicidal.

He had chronic pain, was on lots of meds that messed him up pretty good and was severely depressed. 

He talked to me, was giving away his stuff and basically saying goodbye. It was pretty scary for everybody involved. After that, I ended up doing some research and talking with a woman who did a lot of work with kids after her daughter's father had killed himself.

It's an escape from pain - whether physical or emotional or psychological. I can't sit in judgment of anyone else's life or how bad things are for them. 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv2DyzhxpA0]YouTube - HOLD ON GOOD CHARLOTTE[/ame]


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## Phoenix (May 14, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdSaI080VXc]YouTube - Blaine Larsen - How Do You Get That Lonely[/ame]


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## hortysir (May 14, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gO7uemm6Yo]YouTube - Suicide is Painless (M.A.S.H Theme)[/ame]

Through early morning fog I see
visions of the things to be
the pains that are withheld for me
I realize and I can see...
that suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
and I can take or leave it if I please.
The game of life is hard to play
I'm gonna lose it anyway
The losing card I'll someday lay
so this is all I have to say.
suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
and I can take or leave it if I please.
The sword of time will pierce our skins
It doesn't hurt when it begins
But as it works its way on in
The pain grows stronger...watch it grin.
suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
and I can take or leave it if I please.
A brave man once requested me
to answer questions that are key
is it to be or not to be
and I replied 'oh why ask me?'
suicide is painless
it brings on many changes
and I can take or leave it if I please.
...and you can do the same thing if you please...


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## percysunshine (May 14, 2011)

hortysir said:


> YouTube - Suicide is Painless (M.A.S.H Theme)
> 
> Through early morning fog I see
> visions of the things to be
> ...




If I recall, Painless got a bottle of scotch, and laid by a hot nurse.


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## RetiredGySgt (May 14, 2011)

Dabs said:


> *Have you ever contemplated suicide??
> Have you ever tried and someone rescued you??..or maybe you decided against it at the very last moment??
> Do you know anyone who has committed suicide??*



I contemplate suicide every day nearly every waking moment.

I tried once with pills. My wife called 911.

A boyfriend of my Mother committed suicide when she left him.


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## HUGGY (May 14, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwsvRgFcFAg]YouTube - The Bridge 1/9[/ame]


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## HUGGY (May 14, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS86995vQj4&feature=related]YouTube - The Bridge 2/9[/ame]


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## HUGGY (May 14, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv45Lxm8Epo&feature=related]YouTube - The Bridge 3/9[/ame]


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## HUGGY (May 14, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCTbh0rE7Pc&feature=related]YouTube - The Bridge 4/9[/ame]


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## HUGGY (May 14, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNoi3nKXjCA&feature=related]YouTube - The Bridge 5/9[/ame]


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## HUGGY (May 14, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZKgfLuDOhc&feature=related]YouTube - The Bridge 6/9[/ame]


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## HUGGY (May 15, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOcYAOCzTGY&feature=related]YouTube - The Bridge 7/9[/ame]


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## HUGGY (May 15, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW3o1EOSX9Q&feature=related]YouTube - The Bridge 8/9[/ame]


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## HUGGY (May 15, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Cgwz-AZXyQ&feature=related]YouTube - The Bridge 9/9[/ame]


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## Phoenix (May 15, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzriEXPJ1-k]YouTube - Emerson Drive - "Moments" (Music Video)[/ame]


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## JBeukema (May 15, 2011)

A first sign of the beginning of understanding is the wish to die. 
Franz Kafka


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## JBeukema (May 15, 2011)

Anyone who cannot come to terms with his life while  he is alive needs one hand to ward off a little his despair over his  fate... but with his other hand he can note down what he sees among the  ruins. 
Franz Kafka


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## JBeukema (May 15, 2011)

I have the true feeling of myself only when I am unbearably unhappy. 
Franz Kafka


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## Phoenix (May 15, 2011)

_"Here is a test to find whether your mission on earth is finished: If you're alive, it isn't." _

Richard Bach, Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah


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## JBeukema (May 15, 2011)

You can hold yourself back from the sufferings of the  world, that is something you are free to do and it accords with your  nature, but perhaps this very holding back is the one suffering you  could avoid. 
Franz Kafka


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## Bones (May 15, 2011)

I understand why people commit suicide.  It's an unforgiving world, there isn't a lot of hope out there and social alienation is at an all-time high.  If you're going to cash in all of your chips, nobody should wag a finger at you for doing so.  It's _your_ life and you're not obliged to carry on if you don't want to.


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## Luissa (May 15, 2011)

I thought about it when I was going through post part em depression. Instead I put my car in a porch.

My sister in law/friend's mom killed herself when we were freshmen. My best friend from childhood has also tried a few times. My kids dad tried to two weeks ago with meth. 
When I was a sophomore, our student body president shot herself in the head, and I have known a few other people.


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## sparky (May 15, 2011)

having been on the scene of many, i only offer this

if in fact, you're going to _do_ yourself

don't be a _selfish a*shole_ about it, and leave an ugly last image burnt into your family's soul that have found the mess you've made of yourself


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## Grace (May 15, 2011)

What if you have no family? And what if you do, but your family understands why? (neverending pain, for example. Helplessness nobody can do a damn thing about. Slow death vs a fast one?)

Judge not lest ye be judged.


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## Tank (May 15, 2011)




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## Grace (May 15, 2011)

Ex and I had a bust up laugh today when he was installing my desk drawer for my keyboard. Here we are, all hunkered under the desk, my right shoulder useless my right wrist throbbing so I'm balancing on my left hip which is screaming but my left arm is pain free so I'm holding up the drawer thingy while he is using the electric drill for the screws to get it in position where I want the drawer to be...then he crawls out first....pretty spry....and I'm still stuck. So he has to help me skootch out and I'm OW OW OWing then wind up on my knees, which is fine but my toes are fucked up with RA too so I have to position myself just so, and he starts to laugh and said for me to stay in that position cuz my head is right even with his.....well....I start laughing and say it isn't funny and no way, in his dreams, then he finally finds a place to put his hand to get me all the way up and by then both of us are in tears and I said as I finally flopped on the recliner "kill me when I'm 65 cuz by then I will be bedridden" and he says "I'll just hand ya the 38 I just bought ya. Warn me so I can be fishing when you do it. Oh, and don't forget to lay down plastic before you pull the trigger" which made us laugh some more.

Funny thing is..he thought I was joking. I will not make him obligated to take care of a RA riddled woman that can't wipe her own ass. Period. 
I'm only 59. I can imagine what it's going to be like when I'm 65. Ain't gonna happen. Nope.


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## HUGGY (May 15, 2011)

Grace said:


> Ex and I had a bust up laugh today when he was installing my desk drawer for my keyboard. Here we are, all hunkered under the desk, my right shoulder useless my right wrist throbbing so I'm balancing on my left hip which is screaming but my left arm is pain free so I'm holding up the drawer thingy while he is using the electric drill for the screws to get it in position where I want the drawer to be...then he crawls out first....pretty spry....and I'm still stuck. So he has to help me skootch out and I'm OW OW OWing then wind up on my knees, which is fine but my toes are fucked up with RA too so I have to position myself just so, and he starts to laugh and said for me to stay in that position cuz my head is right even with his.....well....I start laughing and say it isn't funny and no way, in his dreams, then he finally finds a place to put his hand to get me all the way up and by then both of us are in tears and I said as I finally flopped on the recliner "kill me when I'm 65 cuz by then I will be bedridden" and he says "I'll just hand ya the 38 I just bought ya. Warn me so I can be fishing when you do it. Oh, and don't forget to lay down plastic before you pull the trigger" which made us laugh some more.
> 
> Funny thing is..he thought I was joking. I will not make him obligated to take care of a RA riddled woman that can't wipe her own ass. Period.
> I'm only 59. I can imagine what it's going to be like when I'm 65. *Ain't gonna happen.* Nope.



Sure it will.  Shut the fuck up and learn to appreciate the good more.  You are obviously worth it to others.  If they can see you in pain and smile...learn from that.


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## Grace (May 15, 2011)

I'll stick around for the fur kids and the ex and only for that reason. But if I can't be independent and take care of them as they take care of me...............well, sometimes ............

I'll stfu though. Im off to bed.


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## HUGGY (May 15, 2011)

Grace said:


> I'll stick around for the fur kids and the ex and only for that reason. But if I can't be independent and take care of them as they take care of me...............well, sometimes ............
> 
> I'll stfu though. Im off to bed.



Enjoy your sleep.  There is no pain in dreams.


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## uscitizen (May 15, 2011)

percysunshine said:


> Suicide is a long term solution to a short term problem.



A catchy phrase, but not fully correct.


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## uscitizen (May 15, 2011)

sparky said:


> having been on the scene of many, i only offer this
> 
> if in fact, you're going to _do_ yourself
> 
> don't be a _selfish a*shole_ about it, and leave an ugly last image burnt into your family's soul that have found the mess you've made of yourself



Agreed.  Do it in a less traumatic way that thos who cannot understand can rationalize as an accidental overdose or somesuch.


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## editec (May 15, 2011)

My paternal grandfather committed suicide when he was dying of cancer in the early 50's. I was still a baby.

We _think_ my maternal grand mother committed suicide by OD'ing on pills when she was dying of cancer in her late 80s. She was not depressed, merely sick of being sick, I think.

I treated countless people who'd attempted suicide while a Neuropsychiatric tech in the NAV. A Few of those succeeded after they were discharged from the closed unit.

A fellow corpsman (and a former SEAL) who'd been taking _50mg valium_ _daily_, we THINK committed suicide while standing night duty (he'd become an OR tech). He died by nitrous oxide in the OR. Now that might have been accidental, but this guy wasn't exactly the fool he'd have had to have been for it to have been an accidental death. PTSD, I suspect

Two classmates from HS (both returning Vietnam Veterans) killed themselves within a couple years of returning to civilian life (one by heroin OD, one by gunshot). PTSD for_ sure in both those cases_

I had an acquaintance who committed suicide (he got himself shot) by misadventure. I KNOW that was on purpose because he_ told me_ he was planning on getting himself killed that way. He was an insurance investigator and a raging alcoholic

A friend of my son's shot himself when he was 15 year old.

About ten years ago, a close friend of mine was murdered by a nutcase who then turned the gun on himself right in front of my friend's 8 year old daugher and my friend's sister.

My sister's later in life significant other had attempted suicide by crashing his VET into a bridge abuttment in the late 70s. He surived that crash and came out of his coma some weeks later, and lived until a few years back, never really understanding why he'd been suicidal to begin with. (I think his attempt was cocaine related)


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## sparky (May 15, 2011)

as in defining anything controversial, the definition gets fuzzy being applied to certian situations 

for instance, lots of terminals are given massive doses of opiated happy juice 


it's really the kindest thing to do for them, and many of them know it's coming.....


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## Dabs (May 15, 2011)

sparky said:


> as in defining anything controversial, the definition gets fuzzy being applied to certian situations
> 
> for instance, lots of terminals are given massive doses of opiated happy juice
> 
> ...



*Exactly, and the word terminal doesn't stand for 'waiting in line to take a whirl on the ferris wheel.'
Your life is soon to be over, so suicide is definitely going to have a different meaning for each person.*


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## sparky (May 15, 2011)

yes, there should be a _distinction_ Dabs


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## geauxtohell (May 15, 2011)

percysunshine said:


> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> > YouTube - Suicide is Painless (M.A.S.H Theme)
> ...



Book>Movie>>>>>>>>>T.V. Show

The book was pretty similar to the movie on this aspect, but in the book the character was most likely bipolar and was simply depressed.  It had nothing to do with homosexuality.  But the surgeons held a last supper for him and gave him a barbiturate.  When he woke up, he was fine.


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## geauxtohell (May 15, 2011)

editec said:


> A fellow corpsman (and a former SEAL) who'd been taking _50mg valium_ _daily_, ........



Holy shit.............................


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## geauxtohell (May 15, 2011)

sparky said:


> as in defining anything controversial, the definition gets fuzzy being applied to certian situations
> 
> for instance, lots of terminals are given massive doses of opiated happy juice
> 
> ...



That's not suicide.  That's euthanasia.  

With terminal patients, pain medication is given with the knowledge that it might shorten someone's life and it becomes a tough balance to control the pain without killing the patient.  However, it's never right (or legal) to simply euthanize someone.


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## RetiredGySgt (May 15, 2011)

Grace said:


> What if you have no family? And what if you do, but your family understands why? (neverending pain, for example. Helplessness nobody can do a damn thing about. Slow death vs a fast one?)
> 
> Judge not lest ye be judged.



Suicide is the act of a coward.


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## Phoenix (May 15, 2011)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Suicide is the act of a coward.



I used to think so too, sir, but have changed my opinion in the past few years.

Suicide is an act of desperation by someone in so much pain _of whatever sort _- that they'd rather be gone completely than deal with it longer.

Unfortunately, for many it is a temporary pain and the suicide is very permanent, as others have stated in this thread. And many who attempt suicide realize in that last moment that this is not what they really want. They just want an escape. Some survive their attempts and go on to help others. I applaud them.

Personally, at this point in my life I have too much to live for. But there are many people living through lives that I cannot even imagine how they've held on this long.


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## sparky (May 15, 2011)

geauxtohell said:


> sparky said:
> 
> 
> > as in defining anything controversial, the definition gets fuzzy being applied to certian situations
> ...



_really_? well i guess the whole pharamacabal , as well as their many advocates in the field, are morally insulated from pulling the trigger , eh?

lemme see..... ah yes, bullets kill people, not guns must be next then?


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## geauxtohell (May 15, 2011)

sparky said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> > sparky said:
> ...



It's not a pharmacological conspiracy.  Morphine is cheap and death is bad for sales.  It's a ethical and legal issue and probably a whole other topic.  

The hospice doctors generally oppose physician assisted suicide.  However, the hospice movement creates scenarios like the one you mentioned where you are managing terminal patients in extreme pain and you might inadvertently OD them (without mens rea) while trying to control that.

I see the younger group of physicians supporting PAS and hospice so that if the pain is that unbearable, the patient can choose to humanely end their own life and not put it in the hand of a physician.


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## Foxfyre (May 15, 2011)

Phoenix said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Suicide is the act of a coward.
> ...



There's two components.

One is that suicide is unbelievably cruel and selfish because of the unbearable pain to those left behind.  Most especially when it is done at home or near where your loved ones are.  They will spend years grieving, second guessing themselves, blaming themselves, reliving it and trying to figure out how it could have been prevented, etc.   Sometimes that is the intent of the suicide making it even worse.  Usually however, the person is so self centered they don't consider what they're doing to others.

The second is what you describe:  a person in so much fear, physical pain, or mental torment that death is the only escape or relief that they see.  And, as you say, most who fail in the attempt or who are stopped by others are usually later grateful that they still have life.  I don't think it is cowardice to choose to kill oneself, however,  For me, that would require a lot of courage.

I can't say that I have ever seriously considered suicide.  I have had instances in which I was convinced I had some terrible illness and chose to just let nature take its course rather than deal with doctors, hospitals, etc.  Is that the same thing?  I don't know.  (Fortunately, my diagnosis was wrong in those instances.)


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## sparky (May 15, 2011)

So, can anyone here guess which faction of our society has had the most significant increase of late?


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## Phoenix (May 15, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> There's two components.
> 
> One is that suicide is unbelievably cruel and selfish because of the unbearable pain to those left behind.  Most especially when it is done at home or near where your loved ones are.  They will spend years grieving, second guessing themselves, blaming themselves, reliving it and trying to figure out how it could have been prevented, etc.   Sometimes that is the intent of the suicide making it even worse.  Usually however, the person is so self centered they don't consider what they're doing to others.
> 
> ...



True - one who commits suicide is focused on oneself. But are we not also, if we're left behind?  Asking what WE did wrong, how WE miss them, etc.? Now, I'm not saying you're wrong - merely playing devil's advocate.

As humans, we are selfish, self-centered creatures. Death is just one more example. It is much harder for those left behind to be ok with the death than it is for someone to die.

My friend who attempted suicide would have left behind a young wife and two young children. I begged him to consider what their lives would be like without him. He asserted that they would be better off without him. 

It's very difficult to reason with someone in that state of mind. Fortunately, some are able to get through.


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## percysunshine (May 15, 2011)

Suicide should always happen at over 200 mph.


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## ABikerSailor (May 15, 2011)

You know.........there are several verses in the Bible that deal with suicide.

Incidentally, none of the verses are against it.  If you really need to have a mulligan, Father will let you do so, just don't take anyone else out with you.


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## mudwhistle (May 15, 2011)

Dabs said:


> *Have you ever contemplated suicide??
> Have you ever tried and someone rescued you??..or maybe you decided against it at the very last moment??
> Do you know anyone who has committed suicide??*



I've done many things some would call suicidal but it was my job to do it at the time or I just said WTF. 

I had friends and one niece who have attempted it or told me they were contemplating it. 

Suicide is a big thing on post here. Just about every unit seems to have somebody that has gone through with it because of the constant deployments.


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## Luissa (May 15, 2011)

editec said:


> My paternal grandfather committed suicide when he was dying of cancer in the early 50's. I was still a baby.
> 
> We _think_ my maternal grand mother committed suicide by OD'ing on pills when she was dying of cancer in her late 80s. She was not depressed, merely sick of being sick, I think.
> 
> ...



My friend's ex boyfriend killed himself last fall after having gotten back from Iraq.


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## Againsheila (May 15, 2011)

Dabs said:


> *Have you ever contemplated suicide??
> Have you ever tried and someone rescued you??..or maybe you decided against it at the very last moment??
> Do you know anyone who has committed suicide??*



yes
yes 
yes


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## Againsheila (May 15, 2011)

I think everyone who has ever been in high-school has contemplated suicide at one time or another.


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## Grace (May 15, 2011)

I had a tenant who loved her dog very much. But I had had enough and told her how selfish she was and obviously she didn't love her dog ENOUGH. Why would I say that? Because the dog had cancer and was dying. Instead of putting it out of it's very vocal misery, everyone in the complex were blessed to  hear the yelps and groans and whines of this poor old dog and her crying and trying to soothe it and how much she couldn't bear to lose her best friend. That dog suffered and suffered HARD. After a few days of me trying to give help to her AND the dog, I had enough. I got pissed. I couldn't stand hearing it, seeing Meekan (the dog's name) look at me with pleading eyes. One day was especially bad. So I lit in to her SELFISH SELFISH owner and called her a torturer, a loser, and a chickenshit and no friend to any animal that begged for relief. Then I went home and cried for them both. That afternoon, she took Meekan to the vet and had her put down. A few days later, she came over and thanked me. I was still very angry with her but didn't show it.

Sometimes wanting people to stay (I'm talking terminally ill people that only find relief doped up on meds IF the meds even fucking work) because YOU can't bear it they don't hang around and suffer just to keep YOU from feeling sad is the most extreme, selfish thing anyone can do.

Just another path to muse on in this subject of which shoe to put on when it comes to selfishness.


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## mudwhistle (May 15, 2011)

ABikerSailor said:


> You know.........there are several verses in the Bible that deal with suicide.
> 
> Incidentally, none of the verses are against it.  If you really need to have a mulligan, Father will let you do so, just don't take anyone else out with you.



Dude.......you see things through your own prism. 

*Suicide is a result of depression which is Satan's realm. *

Christians are not allowed to commit suicide for the following reasons:



> 1 Corinthians 10:31 reveal that the Holy Spirit dwells in those who are saved. It is our responsibility to treat Him with respect, and suicide is not appropriate.
> Genesis 1:26,27 (and similar verses) reveal that we are made in the image of God. This is one of the reasons we are not allowed to murder (see Genesis 9:6,7), so again suicide would be a bad thing.
> The Bible teaches us to trust, depend on, and believe in God throughout its length. (Romans 8:28 is one example.) To take your own life would show no faith in God. Notice that although the prophets, apostles, and Jesus Christ were persecuted, tortured, and put to death; they did not commit suicide for an easy out. They fought the good fight to the end (see 2 Timothy 4:6-8).
> Be aware of how suicide affects other peoples opinion of the person who died. It is common for people to wonder if someone who commits suicide went to heaven. (That is the reason for this pageget it?) That is a poor testimony for a Christian warrior.
> ...



Another reason Christians aren't allowed to kill themselves is because your body is a temple for the Holy Spirit. If you mistreat it in any manner you're showing a lack of respect for it. And that includes the use of alcohol, tobacco, or putting poisons of any kind into it.

For those who aren't Christian one only has to read the Ten Commandments. *Thou Shalt Not Kill.* That means you shouldn't kill yourself. 

*Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.*

 It doesn't mean you can't kill in self-defense. It's specifically not permitted to commit murder. 

*Suicide is murder. So is abortion.*


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## mudwhistle (May 15, 2011)

Againsheila said:


> I think everyone who has ever been in high-school has contemplated suicide at one time or another.



No....but I did want to rip someone's head off and shit down their neck.

When I left the military I came about as close to it as I've ever been. You feel worthless. But then that soon passes. 

Every time I look from a high place I wonder what it would be like to jump. Then again I've mountain-climbed and would hate to fall. It's weird.


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## geauxtohell (May 15, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > I think everyone who has ever been in high-school has contemplated suicide at one time or another.
> ...



That's true.  I was only in the military for four years and left with a definitive plan that I was actively engaged in when I left the uniform and I still felt relatively listless for about a year or so.  

My boss actually helped me with it before I left.  He pulled me aside and said:  "I wish you were staying, but remember this:  this decision that you've made is the right one purely on the basis that it is the decision that you have made.  Don't be one of those people that spends the rest of their life looking back over your shoulder."  

I didn't realize at the time how good that advice was.  At any rate, it's funny how the military does that to you.  Even the most non-motivated soldiers lose their sense of purpose when they leave.


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## mudwhistle (May 15, 2011)

*On a lighter note

As to my days in highschool*


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## Zoom-boing (May 15, 2011)

A friend of mine's uncle killed himself with a bullet to the head.  Her father (his brother) hanged himself in the garage.  They suffered from depression and/or schizophrenia.  She never talked about it so I don't know which.  Very sad.


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## Bones (May 15, 2011)

"Permanent solution to a temporary problem" only applies some of the time.  For those with clinical, lifelong depression the above platitude doesn't ring true nor does it ring true for those suffering from terminal illnesses or persistent friendlessness.


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## RetiredGySgt (May 15, 2011)

Bones said:


> "Permanent solution to a temporary problem" only applies some of the time.  For those with clinical, lifelong depression the above platitude doesn't ring true nor does it ring true for those suffering from terminal illnesses or persistent friendlessness.



I have permanent life long depression and I tell you now suicide is WRONG. It is never justified.


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## uscitizen (May 15, 2011)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Bones said:
> 
> 
> > "Permanent solution to a temporary problem" only applies some of the time.  For those with clinical, lifelong depression the above platitude doesn't ring true nor does it ring true for those suffering from terminal illnesses or persistent friendlessness.
> ...



Never?
I am terminal and have extreme pain which so far I can keep in reasonable check with opiates, very large doses.

Is life worth living when ones time is proven to be short and one must endure the end in extreme agony?

Speak for yourself fella, why do you think you can speak for everyone else?
That is freedom and liberty?

When the pain becomes unmanageable I will die of an "accidental overdose" which will be much easier on all my friends and relatives than watching me suffer extreme unmanageable pain.

The ones that understand know my plans and endorse them.  Some would not understand I they must be let to believe that is was accidental.


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## Montrovant (May 15, 2011)

Dabs said:


> *Have you ever contemplated suicide??
> Have you ever tried and someone rescued you??..or maybe you decided against it at the very last moment??
> Do you know anyone who has committed suicide??*



Often.
No.  Hopefully, if/when the day comes I decide to kill myself, I will be able to get it done.
Not that I'm aware of.

For many years I have considered suicide the likely way for my life to end.  The thing that has changed as time goes on is the timing of it.  

In my teen years I was put in a psychiatric hospital for a while and, while there, diagnosed as chronically depressed (or some similar wording, it was a long time ago ).  While I certainly was depressed a decent amount of the time at that point of my life, I've never put much store in that diagnosis.  I was a depressed teenager; not an unusual creature, that!  Now I am much less often depressed, I am calmer, but I still expect that I will one day kill myself.  In part that is because I have never been great at life; I cannot remember a time when I looked to the future with much hope.  On the other hand, I may live a long life and simply find a point where life is too painful to continue.  Age and disease can often lead people to a point I would not be willing to live through.


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## Dabs (May 15, 2011)

Montrovant said:


> Dabs said:
> 
> 
> > *Have you ever contemplated suicide??
> ...




*Oh goodness, please PLEASE talk to someone, even if it's me! Yes, I will talk to you!!
I know the feeling of no hope for the future.....I know the feeling of what's the use, because it's not going to get any better......please talk to someone.
*


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## Montrovant (May 16, 2011)

Dabs said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> > Dabs said:
> ...



Don't take that the wrong way!  I'm not saying I'll be killing myself tomorrow, or that I'm depressed because of hopelessness.  There are just things in my life now that will inevitably change or end and I don't know what I'll do with myself when they do.  It will be years in the future, and mostly an issue of how prepared I am.  For now I'm content.

But thank you for wanting to help!


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## Grace (May 16, 2011)

Montrovant said:


> Dabs said:
> 
> 
> > *Have you ever contemplated suicide??
> ...



I get what you are saying Montrovant. Perfectly. You just described me and my own thoughts. Especially the bold parts.


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## Grace (May 16, 2011)

I would also like to thank those who allowed this conversation to take place without making those of us who think like we do, feel ostracized. Or made fun of. Or urged to just DO IT. Or laughed at. The place I came from, this subject was taboo and it was not something anyone discussed or was allowed to discuss without much ridicule. Just knowing we can talk about it and not be picked on feels...peaceful in unpeaceful minds.


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## RetiredGySgt (May 16, 2011)

Phoenix said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > There's two components.
> ...



In the above case you restrain them yourself or you call someone that will. In most States if one has communicated the desire to commit suicide authorities can step in.

When one is depressed enough one can not properly reason. Your mind no longer works like it should you are unable to reason out much of anything except to stop hurting. And that is no time to kill ones self.

I have long term continuous depression mostly major depression. I take max dose of 2 different medications to help with it and right now it barely works. Even as much as I want to be dead I know it is the wrong thing to do. I have a wife and 2 grown children. My depression is most likely some kind of genetic problem as both my children have problems. If I kill myself I am telling them it is ok to do as well as leaving them with the ache of thinking they could have prevented it somehow.

When I get so bad I can not control the thoughts I admit myself to the Hospital. I haven't been to the hospital in about 10 years now but for about 6 years I was in the hospital 2 to 3 times a year. I no longer work which helps some and we found some meds that sort of work.

Suicide is NEVER the answer. No matter how one justifies it. And I assure you the vast majority of people commit suicide while ill, unable to reason out what they are doing. When they are of sound mind they do not kill themselves.


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## RetiredGySgt (May 16, 2011)

uscitizen said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Bones said:
> ...



I vehemently disagree with your opinion. If you are terminal and face that prospect then you need to ( while still sane enough with out the pain) discuss your desires with your family. If they can not handle an informed opinion based on medical facts then they are the selfish ones and you have done what was needed. I disagree that suicide is a viable option.


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## mudwhistle (May 16, 2011)

Grace said:


> I would also like to thank those who allowed this conversation to take place without making those of us who think like we do, feel ostracized. Or made fun of. Or urged to just DO IT. Or laughed at. The place I came from, this subject was taboo and it was not something anyone discussed or was allowed to discuss without much ridicule. Just knowing we can talk about it and not be picked on feels...peaceful in unpeaceful minds.



This subject is nothing to laugh at.


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## sparky (May 16, 2011)

I vehemently disagree with your opinion. If you are terminal and face that prospect then you need to ( while still sane enough with out the pain) *discuss your desires with your family*. If they can not handle an informed opinion based on medical facts then they are the selfish ones and you have done what was needed. *I disagree that suicide is a viable option*. 

and what if you desire to _leave them something_, instead of having _everything asset you own_ liquidated to pay for a terminal illness, which statistically rises in $$$ exponetially in the last six months Sarge?

consider the medicare spendown here, people loose their homes to it.  

Two poignant anecdotals that i can recall>

*1) *Gramps is terminal, Granny's got alhemerz & in a wheelchair for various other ills, the gov is going to take the farm to pay for his $$$

Gramps knew it would end up with his bride in the fossile home

so Gramps goes upstairs _(where wheelchairs can't)_ , calls 911 and asks for a rig sent, then eats a .38

was suicide the economically correct avenue?


*2)* The old hunter, terminal, what is often coined a 'train wreck' , descriptive of multiple ills, on a cornucopia of expensive pharamcuticals_ (talking $5K a month isn't uncommon)_ just to stay alive

The old duffer decides to climb a mountain, and is found resting with his back against a tree, gun across his knees, eyes open to the vast valley below him

I'm guessing he knew physical excersion would do him in, all he needed to do was can the meds for a few days, and presto

so....._was it suicide_?  

you know how those insurance agencies can be when they sniff that out, right?

~S~


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## Grace (May 16, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Grace said:
> 
> 
> > I would also like to thank those who allowed this conversation to take place without making those of us who think like we do, feel ostracized. Or made fun of. Or urged to just DO IT. Or laughed at. The place I came from, this subject was taboo and it was not something anyone discussed or was allowed to discuss without much ridicule. Just knowing we can talk about it and not be picked on feels...peaceful in unpeaceful minds.
> ...


I agree. But it was not a subject one could discuss freely at the other place I posted at for years. One was made fun of, or urged to just do it and the person was ridiculed or called names or pics posted of poison or a bullet or whatever. It was fun time for some warped people. I had a good friend who was suffering. I didn't know. Nor did everyone else. She hung herself in her closet. Nobody laughed then. Prior to that? It was all a game.
I wasn't sure about the topic here, and did start a thread about it awhile back but I kinda fibbed and said it was a discussion I was having with someone. I was testing the waters, so to speak. But I was too afraid to say more, or be truthful. Then Dabs started this thread and maybe because Dabs is a friend did I feel comfortable enough to keep talking about it. And reading other comments as well and how the subject was received.
Who knows. Some lives maybe have been saved just by the people here reacting the way they have. Maybe not. At least we..those of us contemplating...are not alone. And nothing worse is than to feel alone and too afraid to discuss it.

Like Montrovant said..I don't plan to off myself any time soon. But I know that when the timing is right..whenever that is...I will use my option.


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## Dabs (May 16, 2011)

Grace said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Grace said:
> ...



*
I'm sorry this happened to you Grace and you can always talk about anything with me, you know that~
*


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## Grace (May 16, 2011)

{{{{{dabs}}}}

I know. I just don't talk about it often. But I think about it. Especially on really bad days. Doesn't mean it's time yet, though. I'm good for some more years. I ain't going anywhere while my fur children breathe. That, I promise.


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## sparky (May 16, 2011)

for your perusal _( and may i suggest the cultural gap history provides)_

Suicide (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)


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## editec (May 16, 2011)

geauxtohell said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> > A fellow corpsman (and a former SEAL) who'd been taking _50mg valium_ _daily_, ........
> ...


 
Yup...and let me tell ya' he was pretty much impervious to it, too.

He also drank right along side the rest of us apparently without it having a synergistic effect you'd expect.

The man was smart as whip, and an excellent OR tech even despite that massive amount of diazapame coursing though his veins every day.

So you can kind of understand why his fellow corpsman were dubious that he _accidently_ killed himself by nitrous oxide.

He voluntarily elected to leave the SEALS.

He never told us why except to say what he and his mates did in country wasn't pretty and apparently in his mind it wasn't honorable, either.

The guy has a lot of class, folks.

And a whole lot of integrity, too.

But I do not think he could live with himself knowing what he was _really capable of._


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## sparky (May 16, 2011)

they're doing it all over again Editec.......


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## hendrickL (May 18, 2011)

I did once during the time I was broke but I realized how stupid suicide to be the answer to my problems.


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## HUGGY (May 18, 2011)

The closest I came to suicide was when a chick came up to me once in a bar and told me she wanted to "fuck me to death".  I said "O K".


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## Grace (May 18, 2011)

HUGGY said:


> The closest I came to suicide was when a chick came up to me once in a bar and told me she wanted to "fuck me to death".  I said "O K".




With a face like yours, can't say I blame her.

Hey, this is NOT a flirtation. I am an artist. I look at faces, bone structure, eyes (if I can see them). I like your face. So don't  get all uppity thinking I'm all wet and bothered when I give an assessment.


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## HUGGY (May 18, 2011)

Grace said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > The closest I came to suicide was when a chick came up to me once in a bar and told me she wanted to "fuck me to death".  I said "O K".
> ...


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## Grace (May 18, 2011)




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## sparky (May 18, 2011)

uscitizen said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Bones said:
> ...



A tough row to hoe US Citizen, yet a daily affair here , were we to be truthful with ourselfs ....

Even more unfortunate is having your choice disrespected by this shallow _Permanent solution to a temporary problem_ canard foisted via this ethical christian denial shield , lending more understanding to one's dog

were they in your shoes, i'd wager said shield might not shine as bright....


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## geauxtohell (May 19, 2011)

editec said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> > editec said:
> ...



People tend to tolerate to benzos pretty quickly.  They also don't seem to gork out some people, in other words, they are pretty well tolerated by some people.  They get such a bad rap among the medical community (from what I see), I don't think it's really fair.  Some people just don't tolerate SSRIs very well and if using a benzo as needed for them is what works, then who cares?  

That being said, 15 mg of Valium a day is massive.


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## High_Gravity (May 19, 2011)

HUGGY said:


> The closest I came to suicide was when a chick came up to me once in a bar and told me she wanted to "fuck me to death".  I said "O K".



Hell yeah!


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## Ringel05 (May 19, 2011)

Can't remember ever even considering it.   Murder a few times but suicide?  Nope.


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## Phoenix (May 19, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-8ez6dGao8]YouTube - &#x202a;Michael Bublé - "Lost" Official Music Video&#x202c;&rlm;[/ame]


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## whitehall (May 19, 2011)

It's against the law to engage in conduct designed to cause suicide but nobody has ever been prosecuted for succeeding in the attempt. People who encourage and assist in suicide attempts have been prosecuted. It's ironic that it's against the law for a pregnant woman to commit suicide but it's "legal" for the woman to kill the life within her without fear of prosecution..


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## ABikerSailor (May 21, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > The closest I came to suicide was when a chick came up to me once in a bar and told me she wanted to "fuck me to death".  I said "O K".
> ...



And.......if she says she wants to screw your brains out, tell her it's gonna take a while as you're a pretty smart dude.

Then tell her she's welcome to try.........


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## smokin_kat (May 21, 2011)

Dabs said:


> *Have you ever contemplated suicide??
> Have you ever tried and someone rescued you??..or maybe you decided against it at the very last moment??
> Do you know anyone who has committed suicide??*



My grandfather hung himself years after he came home from WWII.  My aunt and uncle who found him said he was never the same when he came home.  It's a shame.  He was and still is loved.


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## pAntiChrist (May 21, 2011)

Yes, when I was 16 and again at 19. By all accounts I shouldn't be here today, but I am. I don't care to elaborate here, but PM me if you like. At 23 I had a child which quite possibly saved my life. I am blessed to have another chance and can only strive to find my purpose. There are times when I am sad or unbelievable overwhelmed, but in this child I have found the strength to go on. The only time I seem to forget that is in moments of selfishness. 

 I can't think of anyone off hand that has committed suicide.


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## The Gadfly (May 24, 2011)

editec said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> > editec said:
> ...



PTSD can do that to you. It's hard to explain to anyone who hasn't been through it, and sometimes even to some who have (everyone processes what he's seen and/or had to do differently).If and when the nightmares, the flashbacks and the sleeplessness catch up to you, and nothing will stop it, then suicide starts looking like an option. That's how you wind up in a room by yourself, with a bottle in one hand, and a gun in the other, deciding whether to live, or die. Been there, done that, after Vietnam. I got past that, but I had friends who weren't so lucky.

I guess, when we go to war, a lot of us bring our own little private piece of it back home with us; then, we either figure out how to live with it, or sooner or later we get destroyed by it. I don't think it's a matter of strength or weakness; just different feelings, and different ways of dealing with our own demons and ghosts. I suppose it's always been that way, and probably always will be, no matter what name we call it by; ""battle fatigue", shell shock", PTSD; the label doesn't matter. I guess for most of us, it never is really over, and never will be, and maybe, that's the way it has to be.


----------

