# But....Japan has gun control?  So how was the Prime Minister shot?   Breaking news.....



## 2aguy (Jul 7, 2022)

Soooo.....Japan has gun control....but the Prime Minister was shot..........how does that work?

*Shinzo Abe, former prime minister of Japan, reportedly suffered a gunshot wound while giving a campaign speech in Nara in western Japan ahead of Sunday’s election for the parliament’s upper house.*












						HORROR: Japan's Former PM Shinzo Abe Assassinated
					

Update 5:20 a.m. Eastern: From NHK: Japan’s Liberal Democratic Party officials say former Japanese Prime Minister Abe Shinzo has died. Abe was shot during a speech Friday in the western city of...




					pjmedia.com
				




*Anti-gun fanatics hardest hit by the news.....*


----------



## night_son (Jul 7, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Soooo.....Japan has gun control....but the Prime Minister was shot..........how does that work?
> 
> *Shinzo Abe, former prime minister of Japan, reportedly suffered a gunshot wound while giving a campaign speech in Nara in western Japan ahead of Sunday’s election for the parliament’s upper house.*
> 
> ...



A semi-skilled machinist or machinist wannabe could build _any_ small arms weapon system in his basement or garage workshop, with a few hundred dollar Home Depot run. The ONLY way for a government to prevent its citizens from owning and using firearms would be to ban all hardware materials and all machine shop machines and hand tools. THIS is the true madness of all gun control efforts; a dedicated enough man (or woman) WILL build any and all firearm systems regardless of what their governments tell then NOT to do. Same with ammunition, grenades, explosives—you name it.


----------



## Persuader (Jul 7, 2022)

Japan has a history of political assasinations....it was quite rampant right before WWIII.....helped usher in Tojo.


----------



## Esdraelon (Jul 8, 2022)

night_son said:


> A semi-skilled machinist or machinist wannabe could build _any_ small arms weapon system in his basement or garage workshop, with a few hundred dollar Home Depot run


True, and that even without acknowledging the utter impossibility of stopping cross-border trafficking.  The same scum who scream for taking the weapons ignore the free flow of drugs that will be the same pipeline for illegal weapons to enter the country.  NO... HELL NO... we will not comply, we will NOT be disarmed.


----------



## Esdraelon (Jul 8, 2022)

night_son said:


> A semi-skilled machinist or machinist wannabe could build _any_ small arms weapon system in his basement or garage workshop, with a few hundred dollar Home Depot run. The ONLY way for a government to prevent its citizens from owning and using firearms would be to ban all hardware materials and all machine shop machines and hand tools. THIS is the true madness of all gun control efforts; a dedicated enough man (or woman) WILL build any and all firearm systems regardless of what their governments tell then NOT to do. Same with ammunition, grenades, explosives—you name it.


Just saw this video:


They isolated a frame with the weapon and it does look homemade.


----------



## candycorn (Jul 8, 2022)

That you can itemize every other shooting in the world outside of our borders is only a confirmation that they are doing things right and we're doing things wrong with it comes to guns


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Soooo.....Japan has gun control....but the Prime Minister was shot..........how does that work?
> 
> *Shinzo Abe, former prime minister of Japan, reportedly suffered a gunshot wound while giving a campaign speech in Nara in western Japan ahead of Sunday’s election for the parliament’s upper house.*
> 
> ...


Could you do us a favour, could you provide us a list of gun incidents in Japan.

In 2014 Japan had 6 gun deaths.

In the same year, America had 33,599.

Oh boy, your list is gonna be fantastic, can't wait for it


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 8, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Could you do us a favour, could you provide us a list of gun incidents in Japan.
> 
> In 2014 Japan had 6 gun deaths.
> 
> ...


How many of those 33,000 are suicides?

You're out of your league, pal.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Jul 8, 2022)

You RWNJ's are a hoot.

"Japan has gun control....but the Prime Minister was shot..........how does that work"?

We have traffic laws too.
So, there are traffic accidents and death as a result.

So, since there are so many traffic accidents we should abandon them, because they don't work?


----------



## bodecea (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Soooo.....Japan has gun control....but the Prime Minister was shot..........how does that work?
> 
> *Shinzo Abe, former prime minister of Japan, reportedly suffered a gunshot wound while giving a campaign speech in Nara in western Japan ahead of Sunday’s election for the parliament’s upper house.*
> 
> ...


What a surprise you started a thread.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 8, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> How many of those 33,000 are suicides?
> 
> You're out of your league, pal.


Hello 2aguy's lackey. Go on, provide this list of the gun incidents in Japan.

US suicides 58.8%, Homicides 37.2%









						US Gun Deaths by Year - Gun Control - ProCon.org
					

Suicides, Homicides, Unintentional Deaths, Legal Intervention Deaths, Deaths from Undetermined Consequences   I. All Firearm Deaths II. Firearm Suicides III. Firearm Homicides IV. Unintentional Firearm Deaths V. Legal Intervention Firearm Deaths VI. Firearm Deaths of Undetermined Intent...




					gun-control.procon.org
				




You're damn right we're out of the league, the Americans are winning it hands down with the number shot


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 8, 2022)

Esdraelon said:


> True, and that even without acknowledging the utter impossibility of stopping cross-border trafficking. The same scum who scream for taking the weapons ignore the free flow of drugs that will be the same pipeline for illegal weapons to enter the country. NO... HELL NO... we will not comply, we will NOT be disarmed.



Uh, guy, all the illegal guns in Mexico start their life in the US. The border is porous both ways.  

The Mexicans caught a gun smuggler and the American Right treated him like a political prisoner.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 8, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Hello 2aguy's lackey. Go on, provide this list of the gun incidents in Japan.
> 
> You're damn right we're out of the league, the Americans are winning it hands down with the number shot


Then, why don't you mind your own fucking business and let us deal with it our way, lesser?


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 8, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Uh, guy, all the illegal guns in Mexico start their life in the US. The border is porous both ways.
> 
> The Mexicans caught a gun smuggler and the American Right treated him like a political prisoner.


...thanks to operation fast and furious...


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 8, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> ...thanks to operation fast and furious...



Operation Fast and Furious was an extension of Operation Wide Receiver, and the purpose was to catch gun dealers... 

It was only a small fraction of the 250,000 guns that cross the border each year. 

But I was talking about the US Marine, who got caught with a small arsenal in his car he was intending to sell before he realized cars were being searched.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 8, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> Then, *why don't you mind your own fucking business* and let us deal with it our way, lesser?



I was just thinking the same about you gun nuts and Japan.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 8, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> I was just thinking the same about you gun nuts and Japan.


Then, you completely MISSED THE POINT.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Soooo.....Japan has gun control....but the Prime Minister was shot..........how does that work?
> 
> *Shinzo Abe, former prime minister of Japan, reportedly suffered a gunshot wound while giving a campaign speech in Nara in western Japan ahead of Sunday’s election for the parliament’s upper house.*
> 
> ...



NOt really.   The "gun" consisted of a home made device using pipes and a electric trigger, carried out by a former member of the military.  

The fact is, incidents of gun murder ARE rare in Japan, because they mostly get it right. 

Abe, on the other hand, was a real piece of garbage whose grandfather was a war criminal and who had tried to excuse Japan's conduct during WWII.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 8, 2022)

Captain Caveman 
Do you know who Philip A. Luty is?

That's more to the point than the shit you're spewing.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 8, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> NOt really.   The "gun" consisted of a home made device using pipes and a electric trigger, carried out by a former member of the military.
> 
> The fact is, incidents of gun murder ARE rare in Japan, because they mostly get it right.
> 
> Abe, on the other hand, was a real piece of garbage whose grandfather was a war criminal and who had tried to excuse Japan's conduct during WWII.


Incidents of crime in general are rare in Japan because of their culture.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 8, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> Incidents of crime in general are rare in Japan because of their culture.



Okay, let's look at that. 

They don't have poverty because they have extensive social programs.
Full employment is considered a policy goal, no matter what. 
They don't allow average citizens to own guns because that would be stupid.  (Guns have actually been banned in Japan since the Meiji restoration!) 
They make sure their mentally ill and addicts get treatment. 

In the US, we make it easier to get a gun than it is to get housing, a job, addiction treatment or mental health care.  Then we wonder why we are having crazy people shooting up parades, malls, schools, etc.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Okay, let's look at that.
> 
> They don't have poverty because they have extensive social programs.
> Full employment is considered a policy goal, no matter what.
> ...



The cops and prosecutors in Japan have police powers that make you nuts….when you are arrested you are going to prison., you have no Rights….that is how they keep all crime low……

They stopped gun violence in Japan by locking up gun criminals for decades….here in the U.S. the democrat party judges and prosecutors release gun criminals no matter how often they are caught with or use illegal guns……….


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Okay, let's look at that.
> 
> They don't have poverty because they have extensive social programs.
> Full employment is considered a policy goal, no matter what.
> ...




This is how they control crime in Japan....you hate our police, you would really hate the Japanese police....

The Japanese police can stop you on the street at any time, for any reason....and if you even look at them sideways you are going to jail...and you will be held......you will confess......you dope....

Japan: Gun Control and People Control

*Japan's low crime rate has almost nothing to do with gun control, and everything to do with people control. Americans, used to their own traditions of freedom, would not accept Japan's system of people controls and gun controls.*
*


Robbery in Japan is about as rare as murder. Japan's annual robbery rate is 1.8 per 100,000 inhabitants; America's is 205.4. Do the gun banners have the argument won when they point to these statistics? No, they don't. A realistic examination of Japanese culture leads to the conclusion that gun control has little, if anything, to do with Japan's low crime rates. Japan's lack of crime is more the result of the very extensive powers of the Japanese police, and the distinctive relation of the Japanese citizenry to authority. Further, none of the reasons which have made gun control succeed in Japan (in terms of disarming citizens) exist in the U.S.
*
*The Japanese criminal justice system bears more heavily on a suspect than any other system in an industrial democratic nation. One American found this out when he was arrested in Okinawa for possessing marijuana: he was interrogated for days without an attorney, and signed a confession written in Japanese that he could not read. He met his lawyer for the first time at his trial, which took 30 minutes.

Unlike in the United States, where the Miranda rule limits coercive police interrogation techniques, Japanese police and prosecutors may detain a suspect indefinitely until he confesses. (Technically, detentions are only allowed for three days, followed by ten day extensions approved by a judge, but defense attorneys rarely oppose the extension request, for fear of offending the prosecutor.) Bail is denied if it would interfere with interrogation.

Even after interrogation is completed, pretrial detention may continue on a variety of pretexts, such as preventing the defendant from destroying evidence. Criminal defense lawyers are the only people allowed to visit a detained suspect, and those meetings are strictly limited.

Partly as a result of these coercive practices, and partly as a result of the Japanese sense of shame, the confession rate is 95%.

For those few defendants who dare to go to trial, there is no jury. Since judges almost always defer to the prosecutors' judgment, the trial conviction rate for violent crime is 99.5%.
Of those convicted, 98% receive jail time.

In short, once a Japanese suspect is apprehended, the power of the prosecutor makes it very likely the suspect will go to jail. And the power of the policeman makes it quite likely that a criminal will be apprehended.

The police routinely ask "suspicious" characters to show what is in their purse or sack. In effect, the police can search almost anyone, almost anytime, because courts only rarely exclude evidence seized by the police -- even if the police acted illegally.

The most important element of police power, though, is not authority to search, but authority in the community. Like school teachers, Japanese policemen rate high in public esteem, especially in the countryside. Community leaders and role models, the police are trained in calligraphy and Haiku composition. In police per capita, Japan far outranks all other major democracies.

15,000 koban "police boxes" are located throughout the cities. Citizens go to the 24-hour-a-day boxes not only for street directions, but to complain about day-to-day problems, such as noisy neighbors, or to ask advice on how to raise children. Some of the policemen and their families live in the boxes. Police box officers clear 74.6% of all criminal cases cleared. Police box officers also spend time teaching neighborhood youth judo or calligraphy. The officers even hand- write their own newspapers, with information about crime and accidents, "stories about good deeds by children, and opinions of
residents."

The police box system contrasts sharply with the practice in America. Here, most departments adopt a policy of "stranger policing." To prevent corruption, police are frequently rotated from one neighborhood to another. But as federal judge Charles Silberman writes, "the cure is worse than the disease, for officers develop no sense of identification with their beats, hence no emotional stake in improving the quality of life there."

Thus, the U.S. citizenry does not develop a supportive relationship with the police. One poll showed that 60% of police officers believe "it is difficult to persuade people to give patrolmen the information they need."

The Japanese police do not spend all their time in the koban boxes. As the Japanese government puts it: "Home visit is one of the most important duties of officers assigned to police boxes." Making annual visits to each home in their beat, officers keep track of who lives where, and which family member to contact in case of emergency. The police also check on all gun licensees, to make sure no gun has been stolen or misused, that the gun is securely stored, and that the licensees are emotionally stable.

Gun banners might rejoice at a society where the police keep such a sharp eye on citizens' guns. But the price is that the police keep an eye on everything.

Policemen are apt to tell people reading sexually-oriented magazines to read something more worthwhile. Japan's major official year-end police report includes statistics like "Background and Motives for Girls' Sexual Misconduct." In 1985, the police determined that 37.4% of the girls had been seduced, and the rest had had sex "voluntarily." For the volunteers, 19.6% acted "out of curiosity", while for 18.1%, the motive was "liked particular boy." The year-end police report also includes sections on labor demands, and on anti-nuclear or anti-military demonstrations.*


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 8, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> Then, you completely MISSED THE POINT.


The point being, you don't want people from other countries pointing out how bad you guys are doing with "horrendous" gun incidents, but you feel qualified to stick your noses into other counties "few" gun incidents. Even if it means coming up with stupid threads on Japan who's yearly gun incidents is approximately 1.2 seconds worth in the US.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 8, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> The point being, you don't want people from other countries pointing out how bad you guys are doing with "horrendous" gun incidents, but you feel qualified to stick your noses into other counties "few" gun incidents. Even if it means coming up with stupid threads on Japan who's yearly gun incidents is approximately 1.2 seconds worth in the US.


You missed the point completely. In spades.

Philip A. Luty.  Look him up.  He's one of yours.


----------



## Cellblock2429 (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Soooo.....Japan has gun control....but the Prime Minister was shot..........how does that work?
> 
> *Shinzo Abe, former prime minister of Japan, reportedly suffered a gunshot wound while giving a campaign speech in Nara in western Japan ahead of Sunday’s election for the parliament’s upper house.*
> 
> ...


/---/ The PM just died.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Okay, let's look at that.
> 
> They don't have poverty because they have extensive social programs.
> Full employment is considered a policy goal, no matter what.
> ...



This is what happens in Japan if you are merely caught carrying a gun....

Japan’s gun control laws so strict the Yakuza turn to toy pistols

*Ryo Fujiwara, long-time writer on yakuza affairs and author of the book, The Three Yamaguchi-Gumi, says that the punishment for using a gun in a gang war or in a crime is now so heavy that most yakuza avoid their use at all – unless it is for an assassination.*
*“In a hit, whoever fires the gun, or is made to take responsibility for firing the gun, has to pretty much be willing to go to jail for the rest of their life. That’s a big decision. The repercussions are big, too. No one wants to claim responsibility for such acts – the gang office might actually get shut-down.”

The gang typically also has to support the family of the hit-man while he is in prison, which is also a financial burden for the organization.*


*Japan’s Firearms and Swords Control Laws make it a crime to illegally possess a gun, with a punishment of jail time of up to 10 years.*

*Illegal possession more than one gun, the penalty goes up to 15 years in prison. If you own a gun and matching ammunition, that’s another charge and a heavier penalty. The most severe penalty is for the act of discharging a gun in a train, on a bus, or most public spaces, which can result in a life sentence.*

*-----
A low-ranking member of the Kobe-Yamaguchi-gumi put it this way: “All of the smart guys got rid of their guns a long-time ago. The penalties are way too high. You get life in prison if you just fire a gun. That’s not fun.”

--A police officer in Osaka’s Organized Crime Control Division, speaking on background noted, “In the de facto world of law enforcement, when a yakuza fires a gun, we’re almost always going to charge them with attempted murder—which is a very heavy crime and serious time in ‘the pig-house’ (jail). Guns kill people, so if you use one, intent to kill is right there. Toy guns? Not so much.”
He added, “Unless you’re an old gangster and wanting to stay in jail until you die because you got nowhere else to go, you don’t use a gun. The crime isn’t worth the time in jail.”*


*In the U.S....how democrats deal with actual gun criminals....*

*Davis was originally arrested and charged with carrying a concealed weapon without a license in Detroit, and the judge assigned to his case ordered that Davis wear a GPS monitoring device as a condition of his bond.*

* There’s nothing unusual about that, but what’s raising eyebrows, particularly among local police, is what happened after prosecutors repeatedly told the judge that Davis was violating the terms of his bond, including allegedly taking part in a drive-by shooting.*
*-----*


*So, by the time Davis appeared before the judge in late May, he’d already had five alleged bond violations and two arrests for separate incidents, including the drive-by shooting. *


*The judge could have ordered Davis’ bond revoked and remanded him into custody until his trial, but instead Hathaway took a much different approach: continuing his bond but ordering the removal of the GPS monitoring device that had alerted authorities to his alleged lawbreaking.
----
As you might have guessed, that didn’t stop Davis’ alleged criminal activity. About a month later police, who were now paying attention to Davis’ social media feeds, watched on Instagram as Davis held a gun and allegedly threatened violence against other individuals.*

*








						Detroit drive-by shooting a case study in not enforcing existing laws
					

Police are fuming, while judges and prosecutors are pointing fingers over a judge's unfathomable decision.




					bearingarms.com
				



*
*1) You hate American police...you would really hate Japanese police

2) the Japanese don't have the democrat party releasing their most violent criminals over and over again......in Japan, you commit a crime, you are held and locked up for a long time.....

You hate how many criminals we have locked up.....and support releasing them...

You wouldn't last a week in Japan before they had you in a jail...*


----------



## Moonglow (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Soooo.....Japan has gun control....but the Prime Minister was shot..........how does that work?
> 
> *Shinzo Abe, former prime minister of Japan, reportedly suffered a gunshot wound while giving a campaign speech in Nara in western Japan ahead of Sunday’s election for the parliament’s upper house.*
> 
> ...


Home made gun is how it happens.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

Moonglow said:


> Home made gun is how it happens.




And?  Are homemade gun legal in Japan?

If he was willing to kill, he could have simply joined one of their gun clubs, and murdered people to get to the guns ....then used those as well..........


----------



## Moonglow (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> And?  Are homemade gun legal in Japan?
> 
> If he was willing to kill, he could have simply joined one of their gun clubs, and murdered people to get to the guns ....then used those as well..........


Why does it matter to an ex con?


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 8, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> Captain Caveman
> Do you know who Philip A. Luty is?
> 
> That's more to the point than the shit you're spewing.


Luty was a gun nut, any relation of yours?


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 8, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Luty was a gun nut, any relation of yours?


Still missing the point...

 No wonder you're an ignorant gun grabber.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Could you do us a favour, could you provide us a list of gun incidents in Japan.
> 
> In 2014 Japan had 6 gun deaths.
> 
> ...




Until just recently, the Japanese had a huge problem with the Yakuza....when they went to war with each other, they used fully automatic weapons and hand grenades.....

This changed when the Japanese government adopted the policy of actually locking up their gun criminals for long periods of time...something we don't have here in the U.S......

a criminal in Japan caught in mere possession of a gun gets......and actually serves....10 years in prison....if they have bullets for that gun, the sentence goes up....

Here in the U.S.....a felon caught with a gun.....not just a normal person but an already convicted felon....gets no cash bail, and home monitoring........and if they are caught with another illegal gun while waiting to go to court on the first charge.....more bail, more home confinement...

that doesn't fly in Japan...which is why they have low gun crime rates....

You want a list of gun crime before they started locking up Yakuza?

The Great Japanese Gang Wars

*The season for pineapples (yakuza slang for hand grenades) may finally be over. Jake Adelstein and Nathalie-Kyoko Stucky on the bloody, seven-year battle between the Dojin-kai and the Seido-kai.*
*
In Southern Japan, the brutal pineapple season may finally be over; pineapple is yakuza slang for “hand grenade”—one of the many weapons utilized in a seven-year gang war between the Dojin-kai (1,000 members) and the splinter group the Kyushu Seido-kei (500 members).
----
---
The Gangs That Couldn’t Shoot Straight

The Dojin-kai and the Seido-kai are Kyushu-based yakuza gangs, once part of the same faction founded in 1971 in Kurume, Fukuoka Prefecture, by Isoji Koga. When the second generation Dojin-kai boss Seijiro Matsuo retired in May 2006, there was a fight over succession, and the group split into two factions, sparking a bloody gang war—where escalation seemed a matter of course. It started with shootings and bombs being thrown, and before it ended, the two gangs were lobbing grenades and Molotov cocktails, shooting machine guns, and sometimes attacking their own men.
-----
In May, a 9-year-old child found a hand grenade in a rice field in Iizuka, Fukuoka Prefecture, and took it home, to the astonishment of his father, who handed it over to the local police. According to the police, there were no yakuza headquarters where the grenade was found.

The numbers of grenades used and seized in the war became so problematic that by April 2012, **the Fukuoka Prefecture Police became the first in Japan to offer cash rewards to anyone who reported finding a hand grenade.*


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Operation Fast and Furious was an extension of Operation Wide Receiver, and the purpose was to catch gun dealers...
> 
> It was only a small fraction of the 250,000 guns that cross the border each year.
> 
> But I was talking about the US Marine, who got caught with a small arsenal in his car he was intending to sell before he realized cars were being searched.




No, it wasn't an extension of Wide Reciever, Bush ended Wide Reciever after they lost track of a few guns....obama and holder intentionally lost track of thousands of guns under Fast and Furioius

Reasoned Politics: Wide Receiver vs. Fast and Furious

*Let’s compare the two programs:*

*Cooperation with Mexico:
Wide Receiver: Mexican Law Enforcement notified, Mexico consented and was a full partner.
Fast and Furious: Mexico intentionally kept in the dark. No coordination or consent.

Surveillance of Firearms:
Wide Receiver: Agents attempted to keep track of the guns at all times.
Fast and Furious: Agents were ordered not to track the guns after they were purchased.

Use of Tracking Devices:
Wide Receiver: Extensive – placed in every lot of guns purchased
Fast and Furious: One “agent built” device in one gun

Performance of Tracking Devices:
Wide Receiver: Smugglers figured out how to defeat trackers
Fast and Furious: Smugglers didn’t have to do anything

Number of Firearms Sent to Cartels:
Wide Receiver: About 250
Fast and Furious: Exact number unknown, but over 2,500

Actions at the Border:
Wide Receiver: Attempted to hand off surveillance to Mexican law enforcement
Fast and Furious: ATF worked with Customs to make sure guns were not stopped at border

Reaction to guns “getting away”:
Wide Receiver: Program terminated. William Newell wrote memo saying “never again”
Fast and Furious: Program continued – recovered guns tracked and mapped.

Ironically, Wide Receiver provides an excellent example of a truly “botched sting operation”. The purpose of the Bush era programs was to track the guns to and over the border where Mexican law enforcement would make arrests. It was poorly planned and executed – but it at least has some potential to work and serve a law enforcement purpose. Make no mistake – Wide Receiver should result in heads rolling – but the program was not designed to send guns to the cartels.

Another point: Since the Phoenix ATF had experience with this kind of operation, why would they think that a program with many less safeguards would ever work?Why was such an operation begun with months of President Obama taking office and immediately after their bogus numbers on US retail sourced guns going to Mexico were exposed as false? Sadly, the answer is obvious.

In contrast, Fast and Furious was designed to pump guns into Mexico, without the knowledge of the Mexican government. Without their knowledge and cooperation, their was no chance of making arrests as a result of allowing guns to cross the border. Therefore, there was no law enforcement purpose. It was designed and executed for the purpose of sending guns from US retail outlets to the cartels. It was not a “botched sting operation” – it was a correctly executed plan with a very evil purpose.

This begs the question: What was the purpose of sending these guns into Mexico, where they were used to kill hundreds of Mexicans?

If one looks at what this could accomplish, the only answer on the table is the same one named by both the whistle blowing agents and the former head of the Pheonix DEA office who was “in the loop”: The passage of new gun control laws in the US.*


----------



## Faun (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Soooo.....Japan has gun control....but the Prime Minister was shot..........how does that work?
> 
> *Shinzo Abe, former prime minister of Japan, reportedly suffered a gunshot wound while giving a campaign speech in Nara in western Japan ahead of Sunday’s election for the parliament’s upper house.*
> 
> ...



You dumbfuck, gun deaths in 2019...

U.S.: 37,038
Japan: 3


----------



## martybegan (Jul 8, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Okay, let's look at that.
> 
> They don't have poverty because they have extensive social programs.
> Full employment is considered a policy goal, no matter what.
> ...



They also are a mostly single race/ethnic group country with draconian immigration policies, and the Asian cultural mindset of the group over the individual.

They also have a vastly higher suicide rate than we have.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

Faun said:


> You dumbfuck, gun deaths in 2019...
> 
> U.S.: 37,038
> Japan: 3




And?

This is what happens in Japan if you are merely caught carrying a gun....

Japan’s gun control laws so strict the Yakuza turn to toy pistols

*Ryo Fujiwara, long-time writer on yakuza affairs and author of the book, The Three Yamaguchi-Gumi, says that the punishment for using a gun in a gang war or in a crime is now so heavy that most yakuza avoid their use at all – unless it is for an assassination.*
*“In a hit, whoever fires the gun, or is made to take responsibility for firing the gun, has to pretty much be willing to go to jail for the rest of their life. That’s a big decision. The repercussions are big, too. No one wants to claim responsibility for such acts – the gang office might actually get shut-down.”

The gang typically also has to support the family of the hit-man while he is in prison, which is also a financial burden for the organization.*


*Japan’s Firearms and Swords Control Laws make it a crime to illegally possess a gun, with a punishment of jail time of up to 10 years.*

*Illegal possession more than one gun, the penalty goes up to 15 years in prison. If you own a gun and matching ammunition, that’s another charge and a heavier penalty. The most severe penalty is for the act of discharging a gun in a train, on a bus, or most public spaces, which can result in a life sentence.*

*-----
A low-ranking member of the Kobe-Yamaguchi-gumi put it this way: “All of the smart guys got rid of their guns a long-time ago. The penalties are way too high. You get life in prison if you just fire a gun. That’s not fun.”

--A police officer in Osaka’s Organized Crime Control Division, speaking on background noted, “In the de facto world of law enforcement, when a yakuza fires a gun, we’re almost always going to charge them with attempted murder—which is a very heavy crime and serious time in ‘the pig-house’ (jail). Guns kill people, so if you use one, intent to kill is right there. Toy guns? Not so much.”
He added, “Unless you’re an old gangster and wanting to stay in jail until you die because you got nowhere else to go, you don’t use a gun. The crime isn’t worth the time in jail.”*


*In the U.S....how democrats deal with actual gun criminals....who do drive by shootings....notice the difference?*

*Davis was originally arrested and charged with carrying a concealed weapon without a license in Detroit, and the judge assigned to his case ordered that Davis wear a GPS monitoring device as a condition of his bond.*

* There’s nothing unusual about that, but what’s raising eyebrows, particularly among local police, is what happened after prosecutors repeatedly told the judge that Davis was violating the terms of his bond, including allegedly taking part in a drive-by shooting.*
*-----*


*So, by the time Davis appeared before the judge in late May, he’d already had five alleged bond violations and two arrests for separate incidents, including the drive-by shooting. *


*The judge could have ordered Davis’ bond revoked and remanded him into custody until his trial, but instead Hathaway took a much different approach: continuing his bond but ordering the removal of the GPS monitoring device that had alerted authorities to his alleged lawbreaking.
----*
*As you might have guessed, that didn’t stop Davis’ alleged criminal activity. About a month later police, who were now paying attention to Davis’ social media feeds, watched on Instagram as Davis held a gun and allegedly threatened violence against other individuals.*

*








						Detroit drive-by shooting a case study in not enforcing existing laws
					

Police are fuming, while judges and prosecutors are pointing fingers over a judge's unfathomable decision.




					bearingarms.com
				



*
*1) You hate American police...you would really hate Japanese police

2) the Japanese don't have the democrat party releasing their most violent criminals over and over again......in Japan, you commit a crime, you are held and locked up for a long time.....

You hate how many criminals we have locked up.....and support releasing them...

You wouldn't last a week in Japan before they had you in a jail...*


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

martybegan said:


> They also are a mostly single race/ethnic group country with draconian immigration policies, and the Asian cultural mindset of the group over the individual.
> 
> They also have a vastly higher suicide rate than we have.




They are likely the most racist country in the world, and one of the most xenophobic as well....and they have never been forced to address the murder of 3 million civiliians during the war....


----------



## Faun (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> And?
> 
> This is what happens in Japan if you are merely caught carrying a gun....
> 
> ...



I don't bother reading posts by abnormal people who post entire paragraphs in big fonts with lots of colors.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 8, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> Still missing the point...
> 
> No wonder you're an ignorant gun grabber.


Yup, he was your relation.

I don't grab guns, Japan doesn't grab guns either. The UK and Japan allows guns, obviously Japan is on the extreme side of regulations. The UK and Japan want the suitable to enjoy guns. I believe anyone wanting a gun, should apply for a gun and if they're deemed unsuitable to be a gun owner, then that's good because it makes the gun culture safer.

In America, any muppet gets a gun, that's why America suffers 31,000 gun deaths per year (37% by homicide), and Japan suffers very few -





__





						Japan – Total Number of Gun Deaths
					

In Japan, annual deaths resulting from firearms total... (open to display chart). Armed violence reduction, development, guns and peace.




					www.gunpolicy.org


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

Faun said:


> I don't bother reading posts by abnormal people who post entire paragraphs in big fonts with lots of colors.




Yep....coward.........I point out the truth about how Japan deals with gun criminals, and how the democrat party here in the U.S. keeps releasing them from jail and prison........

That truth burns you like a cross burns a vampire...


----------



## martybegan (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> They are likely the most racist country in the world, and one of the most xenophobic as well....and they have never been forced to address the murder of 3 million civiliians during the war....



They are culturally homogenous, and we made them pay for their action in WWII by bombing the shit out of them, re-writing their Constitution, and making them be good little businessmen for the past 8 decades.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Yup, he was your relation.
> 
> I don't grab guns, Japan doesn't grab guns either. The UK and Japan allows guns, obviously Japan is on the extreme side of regulations. The UK and Japan want the suitable to enjoy guns. I believe anyone wanting a gun, should apply for a gun and if they're deemed unsuitable to be a gun owner, then that's good because it makes the gun culture safer.
> 
> ...




Yes...again....remember.....Japan murdered 3 million innocent men, women and children during the war...committed atrocities they still haven't acknowledged......

So again......no comparison between us and them....

Now...

..what if we averaged the number of gun murders over the entire history of the United States.... 246 years, and compare it to Europe.....

This won't include all gun deaths, since even here, the majority are done by the government against our citizens....see the democrat party Civil War.......

So....I took 10,000 as an average number of gun murders.....some years more, some years less....later we can even bump thatnumber up...but (spoiler), it won't change the underlying truth...


Soooo...10,000 gun murders a year X 246..... punch that in to the calculator ( who has time for doing it by hand....)



We get?



2,460,000 gun murders......I know, I know.....gun crime in the early colonies didn't reach 10,000 murders a year....you only get that if you look at the future democrat party members and what they would do to their slaves....

Sooo...

246 years....and we average out to 2,460,000 gun murders........


What about old Europe.....

in the 6 years between 1939-1945 when the socialists in German and their conquered countries began to murder their citizens.....what was the grand total of their murder?  



15 million....innocent men, women and children.......murdered by their governments....



I don't know about you, but I went to public school, but I can still see how those numbers are falling out....and..........the United States gun murder isn't the biggest problem when it comes to murder.....











Now.....I know...this is going to cause major butt hurt among the left wing, anti-gun fanatics out there...they will cry out about the most recent gun murder numbers after 5 years of the democrat party attacking the police...forcing them to not do their jobs....and the democrat party refusing to prosecute gun criminals....and then releasing gun criminals from jail and prison like they were on sale.....so we have a higher rate of gun murder because of the democrats and their policies...



So heck....let's indulge them like the spoiled little infants that they are....



Lets bump up the average number of gun murders to 20,000.....which is far more than the actual average, but  I am a generous kinda guy....



20,000 X 246 years = 4,920,000



over 246 years....



Again...matching that to Europe....



1939-1945..... 6 years.....



15 million murdered...........



The gun murders in the U.S...the vast majority of the victims are criminals...murdered by other criminals as they engage in crime........and their unfortunate friends and family caught in that crossfire....



In Europe?



The vast majority of the murdered were innocent men, women and children.....not collateral from the socialist war....simply murdered by their governments.....



Nope...........not freaking giving up our guns cause anti-gun fanatics tell us to trust the government.....



Expect to see these calculations in future discussions.....



As to the 15,000,000 million number...the source...

=======

NAZI GENOCIDE AND MASS MURDER



*German socialists


By genocide, the murder of hostages, reprisal raids, forced labor, "euthanasia," starvation, exposure, medical experiments, and terror bombing, and in the concentration and death camps, the Nazis murdered from 15,003,000 to 31,595,000 people, most likely 20,946,000 men, women, handicapped, aged, sick, prisoners of war, forced laborers, camp inmates, critics, homosexuals, Jews, Slavs, Serbs, Germans, Czechs, Italians, Poles, French, Ukrainians, and many others. Among them 1,000,000 were children under eighteen years of age.1*

And none of these monstrous figures even include civilian and military combat or war-deaths

http://[URL='http://hawaii.edu/powe...]http://hawaii.edu/powerkills/NAZIS.CHAP1.HTM[/URL]


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Until just recently, the Japanese had a huge problem with the Yakuza....when they went to war with each other, they used fully automatic weapons and hand grenades.....
> 
> This changed when the Japanese government adopted the policy of actually locking up their gun criminals for long periods of time...something we don't have here in the U.S......
> 
> ...


Ok, you failed.

Here's a chart -





__





						Japan – Total Number of Gun Deaths
					

In Japan, annual deaths resulting from firearms total... (open to display chart). Armed violence reduction, development, guns and peace.




					www.gunpolicy.org
				




You're an absolute crackpot.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yes...again....remember.....Japan murdered 3 million innocent men, women and children during the war...committed atrocities they still haven't acknowledged......
> 
> So again......no comparison between us and them....
> 
> ...


Do you know what your thread is about???


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy 

Gun deaths in the UK per 100,000 is 0.295. So if the UK had 338,983 population, you would experience 1 death.
Gun deaths in the US per 100,000 is 11.155. So if the US had 8,965 population, you would experience 1 death.

And for you to use Japan to bolster your 2nd Amendment, the gun deaths in Japan per 100,000 is 0.09. So if Japan had 1,111,111 population, you would experience 1 death.

Way to go Einstein, way to go.


----------



## Faun (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yep....coward.........I point out the truth about how Japan deals with gun criminals, and how the democrat party here in the U.S. keeps releasing them from jail and prison........
> 
> That truth burns you like a cross burns a vampire...



I'm sure you think you post the truth. Here's the truth. In 2019, over 37,000 gun deaths in the U.S.. In Japan it was 3.


----------



## martybegan (Jul 8, 2022)

Faun said:


> I'm sure you think you post the truth. Here's the truth. In 2019, over 37,000 gun deaths in the U.S.. In Japan it was 3.



Including suicides. 

Care to wonder if the suicide rate in Japan is higher or lower than in the US?


----------



## rightwinger (Jul 8, 2022)

Just because you can’t stop all shootings doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try to stop any


----------



## Faun (Jul 8, 2022)

martybegan said:


> Including suicides.
> 
> Care to wonder if the suicide rate in Japan is higher or lower than in the US?



37000+ gun deaths ... to ... 3.


----------



## martybegan (Jul 8, 2022)

Faun said:


> 37000+ gun deaths ... to ... 3.



How many suicides compared to each other?

And suicide by gun is no different than suicide by anything else.

It's funny when you use the word "truth" right before making a convoluted statement that is partially false.


----------



## Faun (Jul 8, 2022)

martybegan said:


> How many suicides compared to each other?
> 
> And suicide by gun is no different than suicide by anything else.
> 
> It's funny when you use the word "truth" right before making a convoluted statement that is partially false.



What I said was not partially false. It was entirely true.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Ok, you failed.
> 
> Here's a chart -
> 
> ...




No.... I showed you the truth...the Yakuza were using automatic weapons and grenades as little as 10 years ago........the Japanese made them stop with long prison sentences...


----------



## martybegan (Jul 8, 2022)

Faun said:


> What I said was not partially false. It was entirely true.



But it was completely out of context and irrelevant to whatever point you were trying to make.

When you include suicide numbers with homicide numbers, you are lying.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

Faun said:


> 37000+ gun deaths ... to ... 3.




Yep...the majority of those are suicides....but Faun won't let the truth get in the way of a good lie...

Meanwhile, Japan murdered 3 million innocent civilians during the war....unarmed civilians...

Also, Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies, murders, beatings and stabbings.........and mass public shootings....as well as keeping the government from murdering millions of civilians...


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> No.... I showed you the truth...the Yakuza were using automatic weapons and grenades as little as 10 years ago........the Japanese made them stop with long prison sentences...


You failed miserably in your own stupid thread


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> You failed miserably in your own stupid thread




You fail to understand the truth........you can't understand how it is that we care about governments committing mass murder and how it can happen again, instead you think you are beyond such concerns...


----------



## Synthaholic (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Soooo.....Japan has gun control....but the Prime Minister was shot..........how does that work?
> 
> *Shinzo Abe, former prime minister of Japan, reportedly suffered a gunshot wound while giving a campaign speech in Nara in western Japan ahead of Sunday’s election for the parliament’s upper house.*
> 
> ...


You are truly an uninformed moron.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yep...the majority of those are suicides....but Faun won't let the truth get in the way of a good lie...
> 
> Meanwhile, Japan murdered 3 million innocent civilians during the war....unarmed civilians...
> 
> Also, Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies, murders, beatings and stabbings.........and mass public shootings....as well as keeping the government from murdering millions of civilians...




37% of American gun deaths are homicides. If people commit suicide, they hurt themselves.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> You fail to understand the truth........you can't understand how it is that we care about governments committing mass murder and how it can happen again, instead you think you are beyond such concerns...


You picked on Japan because of 1 death to bolster your retarded notion that that should have never happened, and thus, America is right to go crazy with guns. You are a grade A idiot with honours.


----------



## PoliticalChic (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yep...the majority of those are suicides....but Faun won't let the truth get in the way of a good lie...
> 
> Meanwhile, Japan murdered 3 million innocent civilians during the war....unarmed civilians...
> 
> Also, Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies, murders, beatings and stabbings.........and mass public shootings....as well as keeping the government from murdering millions of civilians...





And....

"In fact, what the media isn’t saying is that many of the fatalities in the Mass Shooting Tracker are actually gang-related – not acts of terrorism or irrational mayhem.



According to the Gun Violence Archive, there have been 12,272 deaths from gunfire in the US so far in 2015. But of these 12,272 deaths, 4,038 stemmed from an officer-involved shooting, 2,085 from a home invasion robbery, 1,755 from accidents, and 1,133 from self-defense.



The number of people killed in “mass shootings” to date in 2015 is 309 – but even these “mass shootings” include gang violence, robberies, and family murder-suicide incidents. As Mark Follman points out in the New York Times, “including them in the same breath suggests that a 1 am gang fight in a Sacramento restaurant, in which two were killed and two injured, is the same kind of event as a deranged man walking into a community college classroom and massacring nine and injuring nine others.”

When you eliminate incidents like gang shootouts, robberies and family murder-suicides, it turns out the number of “mass shootings” are actually far less than the media is claiming.

_Mother Jones,_ that bastion of gun rights fanaticism, counts 73 incidents of mass shootings over the past three decades *– roughly two a year."*








						Are these horrific mass killings really happening 'daily'? | MercatorNet
					

Before panicking, look at the facts.




					www.mercatornet.com
				






- See more at: Are these horrific mass killings really happening 'daily'? | MercatorNet


----------



## Faun (Jul 8, 2022)

martybegan said:


> But it was completely out of context and irrelevant to whatever point you were trying to make.
> 
> When you include suicide numbers with homicide numbers, you are lying.



Except I didn't do that.

I compared total gun deaths with total gun deaths.


----------



## martybegan (Jul 8, 2022)

Faun said:


> Except I didn't do that.
> 
> I compared total gun deaths with total gun deaths.



Which is a useless comparison.


----------



## Faun (Jul 8, 2022)

martybegan said:


> Which is a useless comparison.



LOLOLOLOL


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

Synthaholic said:


> You are truly an uninformed moron.
> 
> View attachment 667738




And?  

Are improvised guns allowed in Japan now?

What kept him from taking a gun from a gun club.....murdering the staff?


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> You picked on Japan because of 1 death to bolster your retarded notion that that should have never happened, and thus, America is right to go crazy with guns. You are a grade A idiot with honours.




We don't go crazy with guns.....the democrats just refuse to keep gun criminals locked up....why do you think that is?


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> 37% of American gun deaths are homicides. If people commit suicide, they hurt themselves.




No....that isn't true....suicide is more than that ........


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 8, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> 37% of American gun deaths are homicides. If people commit suicide, they hurt themselves.


Yeah, so your 33,000 number you touted earlier is some serious BULLSHIT!!!

Of the 37% homicides, where do you think a MAJORITY of those are happening?

You don't know shit about our situation.  You just want us to share in your misery of being a helpless, naked subject with no protection.

PASS


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 8, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> You picked on Japan because of 1 death to bolster your retarded notion that that should have never happened, and thus, America is right to go crazy with guns. You are a grade A idiot with honours.


----------



## Faun (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yep...the majority of those are suicides....but Faun won't let the truth get in the way of a good lie...
> 
> Meanwhile, Japan murdered 3 million innocent civilians during the war....unarmed civilians...
> 
> Also, Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies, murders, beatings and stabbings.........and mass public shootings....as well as keeping the government from murdering millions of civilians...



It's not a lie. You just don't like reality.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

Faun said:


> It's not a lie. You just don't like reality.




Nope......suicides do not count....as Japan shows...

The majority of murder in the U.S. is criminals murdering criminals, and of the rest, most of the victims are the friends and family of the criminals caught in the crossfire.......

You have to include suicides to push up your numbers......otherwise you can't stampede uninformed people into giving you more power.


----------



## Faun (Jul 8, 2022)

PoliticalChic said:


> And....
> 
> "In fact, what the media isn’t saying is that many of the fatalities in the Mass Shooting Tracker are actually gang-related – not acts of terrorism or irrational mayhem.
> 
> ...



LOL

So we shouldn't  count home invasions or accidents?


----------



## Faun (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Nope......suicides do not count....as Japan shows...
> 
> The majority of murder in the U.S. is criminals murdering criminals, and of the rest, most of the victims are the friends and family of the criminals caught in the crossfire.......
> 
> You have to include suicides to push up your numbers......otherwise you can't stampede uninformed people into giving you more power.



I'm counting suicides because they're still gun deaths.

But even if you ignore suicides and police shootings...

In 2020 there were 45,222 gun deaths. 43% were not suicide or police related. That's still *19,445* people killed with a gun.

Japan had *10* that year.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 8, 2022)

Faun said:


> I'm counting suicides because they're still gun deaths.


So, you're being dishonest?


----------



## Faun (Jul 8, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> So, you're being dishonest?



Nope, not dishonest. Japanese commit suicide too.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> The cops and prosecutors in Japan have police powers that make you nuts….when you are arrested you are going to prison., you have no Rights….that is how they keep all crime low……



Then how is it that the Japanese only have to lock up 69,000 people and we lock up 2 million? 


2aguy said:


> They stopped gun violence in Japan by locking up gun criminals for decades….here in the U.S. the democrat party judges and prosecutors release gun criminals no matter how often they are caught with or use illegal guns……….


Again, then how is it the Japanese only lock up 69K and we lock up 2MM? 


2aguy said:


> This is how they control crime in Japan....you hate our police, you would really hate the Japanese police....
> 
> The Japanese police can stop you on the street at any time, for any reason....and if you even look at them sideways you are going to jail...and you will be held.


Then how is it that the Japanese only lock up 69K and we lock up 2MM?


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

Faun said:


> I'm counting suicides because they're still gun deaths.
> 
> But even if you ignore suicides and police shootings...
> 
> ...




Yep.......criminals in this country murdered by other criminals....

Meanwhile, Americans used their legal guns to stop rapes, robberies, murders, beatings, stabbings, mass public shootings, and kept the government from comitting mass murder.......

And the only reason that number is over 19,000 is a direct result of the democrat party policies that went into over drive in 2015....when the democrat party decided to destroy the police and release violent criminals over and over again....

Do you understand that up to 2015, our gun crime rate was going down?  Our gun murder rate was going down?

Then the democrats decided attacking the police was a strategy, and releasing violent criminals was a strategy....

Over  27 years,  from 1993  to the year 2015, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019 (in 2020 that number is 21.52 million)...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- *gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%*

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

*Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.*


This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

Why do our democrat party controlled cities have gun crime problems?

*What changed in 2015?*

The democrat party did 3 things...

1) they began a war on the police that forced officers to stop pro active police work, forcing massive numbers of officers to retire or quit, and let the criminals know they didn't have to fear capture or prison....

2) they began to release the most violent and dangerous gun offenders over and over again, no matter how many times they had been arrested for gun crimes......or they simply refused to charge criminals no matter how much evidence they had to their gun crimes....

3) they used their brown shirts, blm/antifa to burn, loot and murder for 7 months in primarily black neighborhoods while the democrat party mayors ordered the police to stand down and not stop them......in order to hurt Trump during the election.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Then how is it that the Japanese only have to lock up 69,000 people and we lock up 2 million?
> 
> Again, then how is it the Japanese only lock up 69K and we lock up 2MM?
> 
> Then how is it that the Japanese only lock up 69K and we lock up 2MM?




How?

The police and prosecutors have almost absolute power......you hate our cops....imagine if you had Japanese cops....cops who could stop you in the street, enter your home, and search you whenever they wanted, for whatever reason they wanted.......and if they arrest you?  You are going to jail and prison....you are not going to get released on bail for years.......

Not only that....they enter your home for yearly inspections......

Tell me this is what you want out of U.S. cops........

Japan: Gun Control and People Control

*Japan's low crime rate has almost nothing to do with gun control, and everything to do with people control. Americans, used to their own traditions of freedom, would not accept Japan's system of people controls and gun controls.*
*


Robbery in Japan is about as rare as murder. Japan's annual robbery rate is 1.8 per 100,000 inhabitants; America's is 205.4. Do the gun banners have the argument won when they point to these statistics? No, they don't. A realistic examination of Japanese culture leads to the conclusion that gun control has little, if anything, to do with Japan's low crime rates. Japan's lack of crime is more the result of the very extensive powers of the Japanese police, and the distinctive relation of the Japanese citizenry to authority. Further, none of the reasons which have made gun control succeed in Japan (in terms of disarming citizens) exist in the U.S.
*
*The Japanese criminal justice system bears more heavily on a suspect than any other system in an industrial democratic nation. One American found this out when he was arrested in Okinawa for possessing marijuana: he was interrogated for days without an attorney, and signed a confession written in Japanese that he could not read. He met his lawyer for the first time at his trial, which took 30 minutes.

Unlike in the United States, where the Miranda rule limits coercive police interrogation techniques, Japanese police and prosecutors may detain a suspect indefinitely until he confesses. (Technically, detentions are only allowed for three days, followed by ten day extensions approved by a judge, but defense attorneys rarely oppose the extension request, for fear of offending the prosecutor.) Bail is denied if it would interfere with interrogation.

Even after interrogation is completed, pretrial detention may continue on a variety of pretexts, such as preventing the defendant from destroying evidence. Criminal defense lawyers are the only people allowed to visit a detained suspect, and those meetings are strictly limited.

Partly as a result of these coercive practices, and partly as a result of the Japanese sense of shame, the confession rate is 95%.

For those few defendants who dare to go to trial, there is no jury. Since judges almost always defer to the prosecutors' judgment, the trial conviction rate for violent crime is 99.5%.
Of those convicted, 98% receive jail time.

In short, once a Japanese suspect is apprehended, the power of the prosecutor makes it very likely the suspect will go to jail. And the power of the policeman makes it quite likely that a criminal will be apprehended.

The police routinely ask "suspicious" characters to show what is in their purse or sack. In effect, the police can search almost anyone, almost anytime, because courts only rarely exclude evidence seized by the police -- even if the police acted illegally.

The most important element of police power, though, is not authority to search, but authority in the community. Like school teachers, Japanese policemen rate high in public esteem, especially in the countryside. Community leaders and role models, the police are trained in calligraphy and Haiku composition. In police per capita, Japan far outranks all other major democracies.

15,000 koban "police boxes" are located throughout the cities. Citizens go to the 24-hour-a-day boxes not only for street directions, but to complain about day-to-day problems, such as noisy neighbors, or to ask advice on how to raise children. Some of the policemen and their families live in the boxes. Police box officers clear 74.6% of all criminal cases cleared. Police box officers also spend time teaching neighborhood youth judo or calligraphy. The officers even hand- write their own newspapers, with information about crime and accidents, "stories about good deeds by children, and opinions of
residents."

The police box system contrasts sharply with the practice in America. Here, most departments adopt a policy of "stranger policing." To prevent corruption, police are frequently rotated from one neighborhood to another. But as federal judge Charles Silberman writes, "the cure is worse than the disease, for officers develop no sense of identification with their beats, hence no emotional stake in improving the quality of life there."

Thus, the U.S. citizenry does not develop a supportive relationship with the police. One poll showed that 60% of police officers believe "it is difficult to persuade people to give patrolmen the information they need."

The Japanese police do not spend all their time in the koban boxes. As the Japanese government puts it: "Home visit is one of the most important duties of officers assigned to police boxes." Making annual visits to each home in their beat, officers keep track of who lives where, and which family member to contact in case of emergency. The police also check on all gun licensees, to make sure no gun has been stolen or misused, that the gun is securely stored, and that the licensees are emotionally stable.

Gun banners might rejoice at a society where the police keep such a sharp eye on citizens' guns. But the price is that the police keep an eye on everything.

Policemen are apt to tell people reading sexually-oriented magazines to read something more worthwhile. Japan's major official year-end police report includes statistics like "Background and Motives for Girls' Sexual Misconduct." In 1985, the police determined that 37.4% of the girls had been seduced, and the rest had had sex "voluntarily." For the volunteers, 19.6% acted "out of curiosity", while for 18.1%, the motive was "liked particular boy." The year-end police report also includes sections on labor demands, and on anti-nuclear or anti-military demonstrations.*


----------



## Faun (Jul 8, 2022)

martybegan said:


> Which is a useless comparison.



Yeah, if you don't want to avoid comparing total gun deaths to total gun deaths.


----------



## martybegan (Jul 8, 2022)

Faun said:


> Yeah, if you don't want to avoid comparing total gun deaths to total gun deaths.



The guy used a homemade shotgun that looked like a brick with two tubes on it. it just shows that if someone wants a gun, they will get a gun, even in Japan where most people don't want guns. 

Now go to the US where many people want guns, and you would have underground machine shops spring up the second guns were made illegal, which is the only thing you can attempt to do if you want to supposedly eliminate the chances of crimes like this.

Until those machine shops start pumping out guns, of course.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Nope......suicides do not count....as Japan shows...
> 
> The majority of murder in the U.S. is criminals murdering criminals, and of the rest, most of the victims are the friends and family of the criminals caught in the crossfire.......
> 
> You have to include suicides to push up your numbers......otherwise you can't stampede uninformed people into giving you more power.


37% of your yearly thirty plus thousand killings are homicides.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> How?
> 
> The police and prosecutors have almost absolute power......you hate our cops....imagine if you had Japanese cops....cops who could stop you in the street, enter your home, and search you whenever they wanted, for whatever reason they wanted.......and if they arrest you? You are going to jail and prison....you are not going to get released on bail for years.......



How is it that the Japanese only need to lock up 69,000 people when the US locks up 2MM people. 

If prisons were the answer, the Japanese would have a lot more people in prison, if their cops were as bad as you say they are.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> 37% of your yearly thirty plus thousand killings are homicides.



Yep, criminals murdering criminals……

Then we have 1.1 million times a year that Americans use their guns to stop rapes, robberies, murders, beatings, stabbings, and mass public shootings…..

That number dwarfs the criminals murdered by other criminals…..

Then you have to address the fact that 246 years of gun murder in the U.S. doesn’t come close to the six years where you Europeans murdered 15 million innocent men, women, and children….


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> How is it that the Japanese only need to lock up 69,000 people when the US locks up 2MM people.
> 
> If prisons were the answer, the Japanese would have a lot more people in prison, if their cops were as bad as you say they are.



They have a police state…..if they arrest you you are going to prison.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 9, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yep, criminals murdering criminals……
> 
> Then we have 1.1 million times a year that Americans use their guns to stop rapes, robberies, murders, beatings, stabbings, and mass public shootings…..
> 
> ...


Nope, your post is riddled with fallacies. Straight away, when I was doing that thread on the self protection fallacy and replying to the usual numpties, a link/article pointed out that most US women don't carry a gun, they're not used against rape.

Rather than blurt out opinion, you need to back your claims with studies, we don't want to sound bite articles from Right Wing gun nut sites.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jul 9, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Could you do us a favour, could you provide us a list of gun incidents in Japan.
> 
> In 2014 Japan had 6 gun deaths.
> 
> ...


In 2014, Japan had over 25,000 suicides.  The lack of guns didn't save any one; it simply meant a different tool was used.

Reducing gun deaths does not equal reducing deaths any more than banning all red shirts would reduce the number of people wearing shirts.  But wearing red shirts would go way down.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jul 9, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> most US women don't carry a gun, they're not used against rape.


We need to fix that.  We definitely need more guns in the hands of American women.  Glad  to hear you're on board.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Jul 9, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> In 2014, Japan had over 25,000 suicides.  The lack of guns didn't save any one; it simply meant a different tool was used.
> 
> Reducing gun deaths does not equal reducing deaths any more than banning all red shirts would reduce the number of people wearing shirts.  But wearing red shirts would go way down.


So, lets ban traffic laws, after all, they obviously don't work.
People are still getting injured and killed, so, traffic laws are a huge failure.

No experience, no age limit, no license, no problem.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 9, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> In 2014, Japan had over 25,000 suicides.  The lack of guns didn't save any one; it simply meant a different tool was used.
> 
> Reducing gun deaths does not equal reducing deaths any more than banning all red shirts would reduce the number of people wearing shirts.  But wearing red shirts would go way down.


Oh heavens, another clown. I'll shall ask the question again, but in a simple way, "Could you provide us a list of gun incidents in Japan."


----------



## zaangalewa (Jul 9, 2022)

> But....Japan has gun control?  So how was the Prime Minister shot?   Breaking news.....​




I feel pain, dear honorable Mr. Shinzo Abe,  that your death was caused from a bloodthirsty barbar and that this barbaric US-American  weapon fetishists here feel always the need to tell everyone in the world how unbelieveable stupid they are.

I hope you are now in the very best hands you are able to be - in the hands of god, who loves all of his children.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jul 9, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Nope, your post is riddled with fallacies. Straight away, when I was doing that thread on the self protection fallacy and replying to the usual numpties, a link/article pointed out that most US women don't carry a gun, they're not used against rape.
> 
> Rather than blurt out opinion, you need to back your claims with studies, we don't want to sound bite articles from Right Wing gun nut sites.


London recently had a murder rate greater than NYC's.  Banning guns doesn't stop deaths; it just changes gun deaths to beating deaths and knife deaths.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Jul 9, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> London recently had a murder rate greater than NYC's.  Banning guns doesn't stop deaths; it just changes gun deaths to beating deaths and knife deaths.


Sure they did, for TWO  months................FOUR years ago.

April 3rd 2018
A surge of stabbings in London was blamed Monday for the city overtaking New York's monthly murder tally for the first time in modern history. Fifteen people were murdered in London during February, compared to 14 in New York, according to police figures.

The British capital also suffered 22 fatal stabbings and shootings in March, higher than the 21 in New York.  There have been 10 fatal stabbings in London in the last 19 days.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 9, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Then you have to address the fact that 246 years of gun murder in the U.S. doesn’t come close to the six years where you Europeans murdered 15 million innocent men, women, and children….



No, we just genocided the shit out of Native Americans in that time.  But they don't count because they weren't white people.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 9, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> In 2014, Japan had over 25,000 suicides. The lack of guns didn't save any one; it simply meant a different tool was used.
> 
> Reducing gun deaths does not equal reducing deaths any more than banning all red shirts would reduce the number of people wearing shirts. But wearing red shirts would go way down.



The Japanese have a completely different attitude about suicide than Americans do.   They consider it honorable before disgrace in the eyes of their families.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jul 9, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> The Japanese have a completely different attitude about suicide than Americans do.   They consider it honorable before disgrace in the eyes of their families.


That's right.  Japanese culture is different than American culture.  But if the Japanese had guns at the rates Americans have guns then their gun death rate would actually be higher than Americans - because it's the culture and not the gun.  They don't have guns so they use a different tool.  But they commit suicide at a much higher rate.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 9, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> That's right. Japanese culture is different than American culture. But if the Japanese had guns at the rates Americans have guns then their gun death rate would actually be higher than Americans - because it's the culture and not the gun. They don't have guns so they use a different tool. But they commit suicide at a much higher rate.



but they don't commit murder at a particularly high rate because they can't get guns, that's kind of the point.  

Americans have a culture where suicide is considered a sin, but we have a high suicide rate because guns are available.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 9, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> London recently had a murder rate greater than NYC's.  Banning guns doesn't stop deaths; it just changes gun deaths to beating deaths and knife deaths.


That is fantastic, so much so, bloody fantastic.

Ok, back to the thread of all the horrendous gun shootings in Japan. Any chance you could supply a list of the Japanese gun incidents, or are you just gonna continue with a pile of shite irrelevant to the topic?

If anyone wants to discuss suicides, set a thread up. Anyone want to discuss violence in cities, set a thread up.

This thread is 2aguy's retarded thought that a gun incidents can not happen in Japan because of gun control, so this paves the way for the stupid gun beliefs in America.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 9, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Nope, your post is riddled with fallacies. Straight away, when I was doing that thread on the self protection fallacy and replying to the usual numpties, a link/article pointed out that most US women don't carry a gun, they're not used against rape.
> 
> Rather than blurt out opinion, you need to back your claims with studies, we don't want to sound bite articles from Right Wing gun nut sites.




And yet when they do have guns, guns are the most effective tool to stop rape.......and, dipshit.....women are one of the biggest growth areas for concealed carry....you dumb ass....they are learning...

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape



> *A woman using a gun is less likely to be raped and less likely to be injured during the attack....
> 
> Guns Effective Defense Against Rape
> 
> ...


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 9, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> So, lets ban traffic laws, after all, they obviously don't work.
> People are still getting injured and killed, so, traffic laws are a huge failure.
> 
> No experience, no age limit, no license, no problem.




No....you are the idiot with the stupid logic.....

Some people use guns illegally....ban guns....

Therefore, twit.....according to your logic, some people kill people in cars...ban cars.....

You are the one who doesn't understand logic.....you are an irrational dumb ass...


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 9, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> The Japanese have a completely different attitude about suicide than Americans do.   They consider it honorable before disgrace in the eyes of their families.




Doesn't matter......they have extreme gun control, and higher suicide rates than we do...then you have to explain all the European countries with higher suicide rates than we do.....

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jea/14/6/14_6_187/_pdf







And yet Scotland has a higher suicide rate than the U.S......Japan, where only criminals and cops have guns, has a higher suicide rate than the U.S....Sweden has a higher suicide rate than the U.S....Denmark has a higher suicide rate than the u.S.....



France

Germany,

Hungary

Iceland

New Zealand

Poland

Norway

Japan

South Korea



https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/suiciderate.html



Scotland..



15.7 suicides per 100,000

In 2019?

16.7 suicides per 100,000.

And in the U.S.?

13.93 per 100,000



Suicide facts and figures



Changes in Suicide Rates — United States, ...



https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/suiciderate.html



South Korea 24.7

Hungary 21

Japan 19.4

Belgium 18.4

Finland 16.5

France 14.6

Austria 13.8

Poland 13.8

Czec Republic 12.7

New Zealand 11.9

Denmark 11.3

Sweden  11.1

Norway 10.9

Slovac Republic 10.9

Iceland 10.3

Germany 10.3

Canada 10.2

United States 10.1


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 9, 2022)

2aguy said:


> And yet when they do have guns, guns are the most effective tool to stop rape.......and, dipshit.....women are one of the biggest growth areas for concealed carry....you dumb ass....they are learning...
> 
> Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


Yes, once in a blue moon a gun stops an incident. It has the same odds of a gun incident in Japan.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Jul 9, 2022)

*However, most recent studies with improved methodology?*

1997?
1999?
*Second, raw data from the 1979-1985?
Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000)?
Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years?*
1986?
1990?


----------



## Smokin' OP (Jul 9, 2022)

2aguy said:


> No....you are the idiot with the stupid logic.....
> 
> Some people use guns illegally....ban guns....


THAT 30- year old lie?
NO ONE wants to ban guns.



2aguy said:


> Therefore, twit.....according to your logic, some people kill people in cars...ban cars.....
> 
> You are the one who doesn't understand logic.....you are an irrational dumb ass...


Sure...............
You stupid morons think we want to ban guns.
WE own gun too, except our aim is better.
WE don't need 60 rounds to wound a turtle.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 9, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Nope, your post is riddled with fallacies. Straight away, when I was doing that thread on the self protection fallacy and replying to the usual numpties, a link/article pointed out that most US women don't carry a gun, they're not used against rape.
> 
> Rather than blurt out opinion, you need to back your claims with studies, we don't want to sound bite articles from Right Wing gun nut sites.




Centers for Disease control?  Department of Justice...both under the clinton administration when they did their research, hoping to prove you right?  And they failed...

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense 

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)


2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and  Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.

*CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million*

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

*DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)*

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*2021 national firearms survey..*

The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,
----
The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.
https://papers.ssrn.c


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 9, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> THAT 30- year old lie?
> NO ONE wants to ban guns.
> 
> 
> ...




Yeah...you do......you are the one lying...the leadership of the democrat party wants to ban guns.....and they ban them as soon as they can get the power to do it...one gun, one magazine at a time....


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 9, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> THAT 30- year old lie?
> NO ONE wants to ban guns.
> 
> 
> ...




Yeah....we know you guys own guns...you just don't want people who oppose you to have guns....mass graves don't fill themselves, and it is a lot harder for your buddies to fill them if the victims are shooting back...


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 9, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Oh heavens, another clown. I'll shall ask the question again, but in a simple way, "Could you provide us a list of gun incidents in Japan."




I did....the Yakuza wars where they used automatic weapons and hand grenades....the Japanese stopped those gun crimes by locking up the criminals....

I posted all of that information........and yet you want to pretend it doesn't exist.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Jul 9, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yeah...you do......you are the one lying...the leadership of the democrat party wants to ban guns.....and they ban them as soon as they can get the power to do it...one gun, one magazine at a time....


Sure Q NUT.

WE are just taking order from the lizard people that live in the center of the earth.
JFK Jr. has ALL the details.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Jul 9, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yeah....we know you guys own guns...you just don't want people who oppose you to have guns....mass graves don't fill themselves, and it is a lot harder for your buddies to fill them if the victims are shooting back...


You're delusional.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jul 9, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> but they don't commit murder at a particularly high rate because they can't get guns, that's kind of the point.
> 
> Americans have a culture where suicide is considered a sin, but we have a high suicide rate because guns are available.



We've been through this many times in many threads, answered by many people.  People commit suicide with guns because it's actually more humane and it's just the tool of choice.  That Japan has such a low murder rate - due to culture, not gun restrictions - and yet they're able to commit suicide at such a high rate shows that it is not guns.

London has very few guns yet has, in some recent years, exceeded NYC in murder rate proving that guns aren't required to have a high murder rate - thus proving that Japan's extremely low murder rate is about culture, and not about gun restrictions.

High suicide rate and low murder rate in Japan are about culture, not guns.

Too-high of a suicide rate and too-high of a murder rate in the US are about culture and not about guns.

You can't claim the arguments that disprove your lies are cultural and then use the stats that can be twisted to support your arguments as gun evidence.  Japan has a far different culture than ours.  Period.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 9, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> No, we just genocided the shit out of Native Americans in that time.  But they don't count because they weren't white people.




No, we didn't....and before the Europeans arrived they were murdering each other all on their own....


----------



## woodwork201 (Jul 9, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> That is fantastic, so much so, bloody fantastic.
> 
> Ok, back to the thread of all the horrendous gun shootings in Japan. Any chance you could supply a list of the Japanese gun incidents, or are you just gonna continue with a pile of shite irrelevant to the topic?
> 
> ...


You know that gun incidents did happen in Japan regardless of gun control.  Murders happen in the UK regardless of gun control, and you're an idiot, regardless of gun control. 

If I'm wrong about the murder rate in London, then prove it.  Evidence that a high murder rate can exist where there's low gun ownership is very much on topic for this thread.  That a high murder rate can exist where there's low gun ownership proves that Japan's low murder rate is cultural.


----------



## woodwork201 (Jul 9, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Yes, once in a blue moon a gun stops an incident. It has the same odds of a gun incident in Japan.


That's because too few women are carrying guns.  Glad to see you acknowledge that.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 9, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Doesn't matter......they have extreme gun control, and higher suicide rates than we do...then you have to explain all the European countries with higher suicide rates than we do.....



Most of them don't.   

but hey, let's ban guns and see if the suicide rate goes down.  Wait, it didn't?  Well, still not getting your guns back.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 9, 2022)

2aguy said:


> I did....the Yakuza wars where they used automatic weapons and hand grenades....the Japanese stopped those gun crimes by locking up the criminals....
> 
> I posted all of that information........and yet you want to pretend it doesn't exist.


No offence, but this is for the retards, so that's you included. Could you supply a list of gun incidents in Japan. When you supply this list, same with the list in America, UK etc.., it's a list of domestic incidents. So things like suicide by gun, accidents, assassinations, homicides, robberies, domestic abuse, gangs etc.. make up this list.

I know you're trying to include wars and genocides, because you know fine well what a fucking bellend this thread has made you look.

So try again.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 9, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> You know that gun incidents did happen in Japan regardless of gun control.  Murders happen in the UK regardless of gun control, and you're an idiot, regardless of gun control.
> 
> If I'm wrong about the murder rate in London, then prove it.  Evidence that a high murder rate can exist where there's low gun ownership is very much on topic for this thread.  That a high murder rate can exist where there's low gun ownership proves that Japan's low murder rate is cultural.


That's fantastic again. Could you please list the gun incidents in Japan please. Say over the last 10 to 15 years. Just total numbers will do.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 9, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> That's because too few women are carrying guns.  Glad to see you acknowledge that.


Glad to see you've never read my posts because I've said a billion times women don't carry guns when the Muppets claim they're needed for self defence against rape. I don't wish to offend you, but you're not very bright.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jul 9, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Soooo.....Japan has gun control....but the Prime Minister was shot..........how does that work?
> 
> *Shinzo Abe, former prime minister of Japan, reportedly suffered a gunshot wound while giving a campaign speech in Nara in western Japan ahead of Sunday’s election for the parliament’s upper house.*
> 
> ...



Hey, douche canoe, last year there was like 1 firearm fatality in Japan.  That's not a small population.

Also:  the shooter of Abe used a "home made gun".  If I was to believe folks like YOU if guns aren't available people will kill with steak knives and cars.  Why did this guy make a GUN??  Is it because guns are special in some way?


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 9, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Hey, douche canoe, last year there was like 1 firearm fatality in Japan.  That's not a small population.
> 
> Also:  the shooter of Abe used a "home made gun".  If I was to believe folks like YOU if guns aren't available people will kill with steak knives and cars.  Why did this guy make a GUN??  Is it because guns are special in some way?




Moron....the Japanese actually lock up gun criminals for decades, they don't release them on no cash bail like the democrats do here....that is why their Yakuza stopped using guns.......

A 7 year gang war that started in 2005....where they used fully automatic weapons and grenades...

*Maybe you can tell us....are fully automatic weapons and grenades legal, or illegal in Japan?*

The Great Japanese Gang Wars

*It was the second time that a “truce” was called in the gang war, which began in 2006, and police are skeptical this new one will hold.*
----
The season for pineapples (yakuza slang for hand grenades) may finally be over. Jake Adelstein and Nathalie-Kyoko Stucky on the bloody, seven-year battle between the Dojin-kai and the Seido-kai.

In Southern Japan, the brutal pineapple season may finally be over; pineapple is yakuza slang for “hand grenade”—one of the many weapons utilized in a seven-year gang war between the Dojin-kai (1,000 members) and the splinter group the Kyushu Seido-kei (500 members).
----
---
The Gangs That Couldn’t Shoot Straight

The Dojin-kai and the Seido-kai are Kyushu-based yakuza gangs, once part of the same faction founded in 1971 in Kurume, Fukuoka Prefecture, by Isoji Koga. When the second generation Dojin-kai boss Seijiro Matsuo retired in May 2006, there was a fight over succession, and the group split into two factions, sparking a bloody gang war—*where escalation seemed a matter of course. It started with shootings and bombs being thrown, and before it ended, the two gangs were lobbing grenades and Molotov cocktails, shooting machine guns, and sometimes attacking their own men.*
-----
In May, a 9-year-old child found a hand grenade in a rice field in Iizuka, Fukuoka Prefecture, and took it home, to the astonishment of his father, who handed it over to the local police. According to the police, there were no yakuza headquarters where the grenade was found.

The numbers of grenades used and seized in the war became so problematic that by April 2012, the Fukuoka Prefecture Police became the first in Japan to offer cash rewards to anyone who reported finding a hand grenade.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 9, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> That's fantastic again. Could you please list the gun incidents in Japan please. Say over the last 10 to 15 years. Just total numbers will do.




* Say over the last 10 to 15 years.

Is 2012 within the last 10 to 15 years.......?  Genius?*


*Sure.....

Maybe you can tell us........are fully automatic weapons and hand grenades legal or illegal in Japan?*


The Great Japanese Gang Wars



*The season for pineapples (yakuza slang for hand grenades) may finally be over. Jake Adelstein and Nathalie-Kyoko Stucky on the bloody, seven-year battle between the Dojin-kai and the Seido-kai.

In Southern Japan, the brutal pineapple season may finally be over; pineapple is yakuza slang for “hand grenade”—one of the many weapons utilized in a seven-year gang war between the Dojin-kai (1,000 members) and the splinter group the Kyushu Seido-kei (500 members).
----
---
The Gangs That Couldn’t Shoot Straight

The Dojin-kai and the Seido-kai are Kyushu-based yakuza gangs, once part of the same faction founded in 1971 in Kurume, Fukuoka Prefecture, by Isoji Koga. When the second generation Dojin-kai boss Seijiro Matsuo retired in May 2006, there was a fight over succession, and the group split into two factions, sparking a bloody gang war—where escalation seemed a matter of course. It started with shootings and bombs being thrown, and before it ended, the two gangs were lobbing grenades and Molotov cocktails, shooting machine guns, and sometimes attacking their own men.
-----
In May, a 9-year-old child found a hand grenade in a rice field in Iizuka, Fukuoka Prefecture, and took it home, to the astonishment of his father, who handed it over to the local police. According to the police, there were no yakuza headquarters where the grenade was found.
*
*The numbers of grenades used and seized in the war became so problematic that by April 2012, **the Fukuoka Prefecture Police became the first in Japan to offer cash rewards to anyone who reported finding a hand grenade.*


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 9, 2022)

2aguy said:


> * Say over the last 10 to 15 years.
> 
> Is 2012 within the last 10 to 15 years.......?  Genius?
> 
> ...


That's fantastic yet again, but back to the thread.

Could you list the gun deaths in Japan please? Numbers per year would be good, say, for the past 10 to 15 years. It will be interesting to compare these to the US.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 9, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> That's fantastic yet again, but back to the thread.
> 
> Could you list the gun deaths in Japan please? Numbers per year would be good, say, for the past 10 to 15 years. It will be interesting to compare these to the US.




I listed gang wars.....you know, in Japan, where normal people can't get guns, the criminals who double dog dare can't get guns had fully automatic weapons and grenades...so many grenades, in fact, the police had to put out warnings to civilians not to touch them when they found them just lying around.....

You asked 10-15 years....2012, one of the years of the Yakuza war, is within that time frame.....that you want to pretend the Yakuza don't count is why we don't trust assholes like you....


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 9, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> That's fantastic yet again, but back to the thread.
> 
> Could you list the gun deaths in Japan please? Numbers per year would be good, say, for the past 10 to 15 years. It will be interesting to compare these to the US.




Answer the question...

Are fully automatic weapons and hand grenades legal or illegal in Japan?  Are Yakuza given an exception to the law about fully automatic weapons and hand grenades?


----------



## Faun (Jul 9, 2022)

2aguy said:


> No....you are the idiot with the stupid logic.....
> 
> Some people use guns illegally....ban guns....
> 
> ...



Retard, that would be a conversation worth considering people killed others intentionally with cars as they do with guns.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 9, 2022)

Faun said:


> Retard, that would be a conversation worth considering people killed others intentionally with cars as they do with guns.




Nice, France, rental truck..... 86 killed, 434 wounded.

New York, 2017 truck attack, 8 killed, 12 wounded....

Waukesha Christmas parade attack, car....6 killed, 62 wounded.

The attack in Nice, France, with a rental truck, murdered more people than every single mass public shooting in the United States....in fact, except for two years, since 1982, that muslim in that attack murdered more people than the total number killed in each year of mass public shootings......

So Trucks are far deadlier than guns if they are used in a mass public attack....

Do you need the rest of the list?


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 9, 2022)

Faun said:


> Retard, that would be a conversation worth considering people killed others intentionally with cars as they do with guns.




If these killers ever look into the carnage trucks can inflict, we will be in real trouble...trucks do not require background checks....felons can rent them........

So.........the only thing holding back more attacks with trucks?  The killers don't understand how deadly they are...


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 9, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Yes, once in a blue moon a gun stops an incident. It has the same odds of a gun incident in Japan.


This fails to account for the MILLIONS of defensive uses of guns each year. 

And before you chirp in with your immediate response, consider the use of a gun where the mere threat with it deters violence.  Happens several times a day.

Now, piss off.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 10, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> This fails to account for the MILLIONS of defensive uses of guns each year.
> 
> And before you chirp in with your immediate response, consider the use of a gun where the mere threat with it deters violence.  Happens several times a day.
> 
> Now, piss off.


If you took the time to read the thread on the self defence fallacy, you wouldn't have posted yet another retarded post.


----------



## Faun (Jul 10, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Nice, France, rental truck..... 86 killed, 434 wounded.
> 
> New York, 2017 truck attack, 8 killed, 12 wounded....
> 
> ...



100 killed worldwide over many years.

Less a week's worth of gun deaths in the U.S.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jul 10, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Moron....the Japanese actually lock up gun criminals for decades, they don't release them on no cash bail like the democrats do here....that is why their Yakuza stopped using guns.......
> 
> A 7 year gang war that started in 2005....where they used fully automatic weapons and grenades...
> 
> ...



Wow, another waste of a post.  Huh.  So many words, so much typing, so little value.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 10, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> If you took the time to read the thread on the self defence fallacy, you wouldn't have posted yet another retarded post.


Oh that's right.  In stupid countries, if someone swingings a club at your head, you can't stop the violence by threaten them with a gun.

FUCKING STUPID!!!

Now, educate yourself:

_The Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council released the results of their research through the CDC last month. Researchers compiled data from previous studies in order to guide future research on gun violence, noting that “almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year.”_





						CDC Study: Use of Firearms for Self-Defense is ‘Important Crime Deterrent’
					

President Obama signs executive order for CDC gun violence study. (AP photo)(CNSNews.com) – “Self-defense can be an important crime deterrent,”says a new report by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC).




					www.cnsnews.com


----------



## Coyote (Jul 10, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Soooo.....Japan has gun control....but the Prime Minister was shot..........how does that work?
> 
> *Shinzo Abe, former prime minister of Japan, reportedly suffered a gunshot wound while giving a campaign speech in Nara in western Japan ahead of Sunday’s election for the parliament’s upper house.*
> 
> ...




Did you know we have strict laws against murder but a guy just got murdered today!!  Clearly anti murder laws don’t work!


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 10, 2022)

Coyote said:


> Did you know we have strict laws against murder but a guy just got murdered today!!  Clearly anti murder laws don’t work!


Of course laws against murder do not stop murder.  They only allow an avenue to prosecute for murder.  They only allow an avenue for justice.

You cannot prevent crime by taking rights away from non-criminals.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 10, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> Oh that's right.  In stupid countries, if someone swingings a club at your head, you can't stop the violence by threaten them with a gun.
> 
> FUCKING STUPID!!!
> 
> ...


The majority of the claimed umpteen million cases of self defence by gun were proven to be a fallacy. If you took the time to check the thread out, you wouldn't have posted a stupid post.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 10, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> The majority of the claimed umpteen million cases of self defence by gun were proven to be a fallacy. If you took the time to check the thread out, you wouldn't have posted a stupid post.


Link?

We provide evidence backing our claims.

You do nothing but yap a bunch of bullshit.

So, post your evidence or shut the fuck up.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 10, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> Link?
> 
> We provide evidence backing our claims.
> 
> ...


It's a thread on USMB you lazy jackass.






						US Message Board 🦅 Political Discussion Forum
					

USMessageBoard.com is the premiere Political Forum with many areas of discussions including Current Events, Corona Virus, COVID-19, Politics, US Affairs, Congress, Stock Market, Economy, Energy, Immigration, Law, Education, Science, Religion, Health, Military, Conspiracy Theories President...



					www.usmessageboard.com


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 10, 2022)

Coyote said:


> Did you know we have strict laws against murder but a guy just got murdered today!!  Clearly anti murder laws don’t work!




Nope......as usual you idiots miss the point.....

Our laws against murder allow us to punish those who commit the crime...

We do not go up to random home on a U.S. street and arrest people because they might commit murder....we arrest individuals who commit murder after the act......

What you dumb shits want, is to take guns away from people who did not commit any crime with those guns.......

That is the point you don't understand because you are an idiot....

The internet meme about castrating yourself to stop rape, when you didn't commit rape is where you are at....


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 10, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> The majority of the claimed umpteen million cases of self defence by gun were proven to be a fallacy. If you took the time to check the thread out, you wouldn't have posted a stupid post.



Wrong.......you guys simply make things up.......


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 10, 2022)

Faun said:


> 100 killed worldwide over many years.
> 
> Less a week's worth of gun deaths in the U.S.




So.....you think the number killed in truck and car attacks is so small that we don't need to ban cars and trucks....

Meanwhile, mass public shootings in 2021..... total 6.....killed 43 people......

The truck attack in Nice killed 86 people, wounded 434......

The total number of people killed in the entire year of mass public shootings in the U.S. was 43.....the entire year......

So.....you don't think that the small number of deaths by car and truck attacks warrants banning them...

But the 43 people killed in mass public shootings warrants banning and confiscating 600 million guns from people who have never used them to commit any crime...

That is why we think you are a moron...


----------



## Coyote (Jul 10, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Nope......as usual you idiots miss the point.....
> 
> Our laws against murder allow us to punish those who commit the crime...
> 
> ...


No one has banned law abiding citizens from owning a gun.  In meantime, gun regulations work.  All you have to is compare rates of gun violence in countries like Japan, and the US.


----------



## Faun (Jul 10, 2022)

2aguy said:


> So.....you think the number killed in truck and car attacks is so small that we don't need to ban cars and trucks....
> 
> Meanwhile, mass public shootings in 2021..... total 6.....killed 43 people......
> 
> ...



LOL

So now you're trying to compare the total number of intentional deaths by cars with just a select number of intentional deaths by guns?

You lying piece of shit.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 10, 2022)

Faun said:


> LOL
> 
> So now you're trying to compare the total number of intentional deaths by cars with just a select number of intentional deaths by guns?
> 
> You lying piece of shit.




Nope...you did that......

And if you want to compare the total number of  accidental car deaths to  accidental gun deaths, you still lose....

2020

Accidental car deaths.......42,339

Accidental gun deaths...... 535

600 million guns in private hands....over 21.5 million Americans now carry guns in public for self defense.......


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 10, 2022)

Coyote said:


> No one has banned law abiding citizens from owning a gun.  In meantime, gun regulations work.  All you have to is compare rates of gun violence in countries like Japan, and the US.




No......you are making a stupid comparison......Japan has an authoritarian police force, and actually enforces the gun laws they have......

Japan's low gun crime rate is due to their police state, not their gun laws....if they allowed normal Japanese citizens to own and carry guns, their gun crime rate would still be low......

The facts.......

First a comparison.......

Japan vs. the United States in Dealing with gun criminals.....notice the difference...

Japan’s gun control laws so strict the Yakuza turn to toy pistols

*Ryo Fujiwara, long-time writer on yakuza affairs and author of the book, The Three Yamaguchi-Gumi, says that the punishment for using a gun in a gang war or in a crime is now so heavy that most yakuza avoid their use at all – unless it is for an assassination.*

*“In a hit, whoever fires the gun, or is made to take responsibility for firing the gun, has to pretty much be willing to go to jail for the rest of their life. That’s a big decision. The repercussions are big, too. No one wants to claim responsibility for such acts – the gang office might actually get shut-down.”

The gang typically also has to support the family of the hit-man while he is in prison, which is also a financial burden for theorganization.

Japan’s Firearms and Swords Control Laws make it a crime to illegally possess a gun, with a punishment of jail time of up to 10 years.

Illegal possession more than one gun, the penalty goes up to 15 years in prison. If you own a gun and matching ammunition, that’s another charge and a heavier penalty. The most severe penalty is for the act of discharging a gun in a train, on a bus, or most public spaces, which can result in a life sentence.
-----
A low-ranking member of the Kobe-Yamaguchi-gumi put it this way: “All of the smart guys got rid of their guns a long-time ago. The penalties are way too high. You get life in prison if you just fire a gun. That’s not fun.”

--A police officer in Osaka’s Organized Crime Control Division, speaking on background noted, “In the de facto world of law enforcement, when a yakuza fires a gun, we’re almost always going to charge them with attempted murder—which is a very heavy crime and serious time in ‘the pig-house’ (jail). Guns kill people, so if you use one, intent to kill is right there. Toy guns? Not so much.”

He added, “Unless you’re an old gangster and wanting to stay in jail until you die because you got nowhere else to go, you don’t use a gun. The crime isn’t worth the time in jail.”*



*In the U.S....how democrats deal with actual gun criminals....

Davis was originally arrested and charged with carrying a concealed weapon without a license in Detroit, and the judge assigned to his case ordered that Davis wear a GPS monitoring device as a condition of his bond.*

* There’s nothing unusual about that, but what’s raising eyebrows, particularly among local police, is what happened afterprosecutors repeatedly told the judge that Davis was violating the terms of his bond, including allegedly taking part in a drive-by shooting.

-----

So, by the time Davis appeared before the judge in late May, he’d already had five alleged bond violations and two arrests for separate incidents, including the drive-by shooting. 

The judge could have ordered Davis’ bond revoked and remanded him into custody until his trial, but instead Hathaway took a much different approach: continuing his bond but ordering the removal of the GPS monitoring device that had alerted authorities to his alleged lawbreaking.

----

As you might have guessed, that didn’t stop Davis’ alleged criminal activity. About a month later police, who were now paying attention to Davis’ social media feeds, watched on Instagram as Davis held a gun and allegedly threatened violence against other individuals.



http://[URL='https://bearingarms.co...e-study-in-not-enforcing-existing-laws-n60124[/URL]*



*The two illegal alien mass public shooters given 15,000 dollars bond...



Brietbart....*

*On Wednesday, as Breitbart News reported, the Richmond Police Department announced the arrests of Guatemalan nationals 52-year-old illegal alien Julio Alvardo Dubon and 38-year-old illegal alien Rolman Balacarcel Ac for allegedly plotting a mass shooting at the city’s July 4th celebration.

---*
The American citizen who thwarted the mass shooting plot called police after he heard a man discussing a plan to “shoot up” Richmond’s annual Fourth of July celebration.

hat is when police raided Dubon’s residence to find two rifles, a handgun, and 223 rounds of ammunition. Dubon was subsequently charged with being in possession of a firearm as an alien to the U.S.

---
Dubon has been booked into the Richmond City Jail on a $15,000 bail. Though police said Ac was also booked, his records do not appear in the city jail’s records.


*Illegal Aliens Plotted July 4th Mass Shooting, Thwarted by 'Hero Citizen'

4th of July Shootout Averted

Do you see the difference?

In Japan...you are not getting bail....in Japan, you are going to jail, and then to prison where you will serve out your sentence...and if it is a gun crime, you are going away for a minimum of 15 years....

The democrats in the U.S. are releasing known gun felons, with multiple felonies.....on no cash bail.......as you see above....

That is why they don't have gun crime, and we do....our criminals do not fear our justice system.......the criminals in Japan fear their justice system.*


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 10, 2022)

Faun said:


> LOL
> 
> So now you're trying to compare the total number of intentional deaths by cars with just a select number of intentional deaths by guns?
> 
> You lying piece of shit.




Nope...apples to apples.....

And again.....cars accidentally kill more people than criminals kill using guns illegally to commit murder....

No matter how you slice it, cars are deadlier than guns......even in mass public attacks, trucks and cars kill more people than guys with rifle do....


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 10, 2022)

Coyote said:


> No one has banned law abiding citizens from owning a gun.  In meantime, gun regulations work.  All you have to is compare rates of gun violence in countries like Japan, and the US.




Can you tell us.....are fully automatic weapons and hand grenades illegal in Japan........?

The Yakuza in 2006 went to war for 7 years and used fully automatic weaons and grenades.......I do believe both are illegal in Japan, but maybe you could look that up for us........

The Great Japanese Gang Wars

The season for pineapples (yakuza slang for hand grenades) may finally be over. Jake Adelstein and Nathalie-Kyoko Stucky on the bloody, seven-year battle between the Dojin-kai and the Seido-kai.

In Southern Japan, the brutal pineapple season may finally be over; pineapple is yakuza slang for “hand grenade”—one of the many weapons utilized in a seven-year gang war between the Dojin-kai (1,000 members) and the splinter group the Kyushu Seido-kei (500 members).
----
---
The Gangs That Couldn’t Shoot Straight

The Dojin-kai and the Seido-kai are Kyushu-based yakuza gangs, once part of the same faction founded in 1971 in Kurume, Fukuoka Prefecture, by Isoji Koga. When the second generation Dojin-kai boss Seijiro Matsuo retired in May 2006, there was a fight over succession, and the group split into two factions, sparking a bloody gang war—where escalation seemed a matter of course. It started with shootings and bombs being thrown, and before it ended, the two gangs were lobbing grenades and Molotov cocktails, shooting machine guns, and sometimes attacking their own men.
-----
In May, a 9-year-old child found a hand grenade in a rice field in Iizuka, Fukuoka Prefecture, and took it home, to the astonishment of his father, who handed it over to the local police. According to the police, there were no yakuza headquarters where the grenade was found.

The numbers of grenades used and seized in the war became so problematic that by April 2012, the Fukuoka Prefecture Police became the first in Japan to offer cash rewards to anyone who reported finding a hand grenade.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 10, 2022)

Coyote said:


> No one has banned law abiding citizens from owning a gun.  In meantime, gun regulations work.  All you have to is compare rates of gun violence in countries like Japan, and the US.




Do you understand the amount of power Japanese police and prosecutors have?   You guys hate American police, so how do you think you would like Japanese police and prosecutors and their ability to put you in prison?

Japan: Gun Control and People Control

*Japan's low crime rate has almost nothing to do with gun control, and everything to do with people control. Americans, used to their own traditions of freedom, would not accept Japan's system of people controls and gun controls.*
*


Robbery in Japan is about as rare as murder. Japan's annual robbery rate is 1.8 per 100,000 inhabitants; America's is 205.4. Do the gun banners have the argument won when they point to these statistics? No, they don't. A realistic examination of Japanese culture leads to the conclusion that gun control has little, if anything, to do with Japan's low crime rates. Japan's lack of crime is more the result of the very extensive powers of the Japanese police, and the distinctive relation of the Japanese citizenry to authority. Further, none of the reasons which have made gun control succeed in Japan (in terms of disarming citizens) exist in the U.S.
*
*The Japanese criminal justice system bears more heavily on a suspect than any other system in an industrial democratic nation. One American found this out when he was arrested in Okinawa for possessing marijuana: he was interrogated for days without an attorney, and signed a confession written in Japanese that he could not read. He met his lawyer for the first time at his trial, which took 30 minutes.

Unlike in the United States, where the Miranda rule limits coercive police interrogation techniques, Japanese police and prosecutors may detain a suspect indefinitely until he confesses. (Technically, detentions are only allowed for three days, followed by ten day extensions approved by a judge, but defense attorneys rarely oppose the extension request, for fear of offending the prosecutor.) Bail is denied if it would interfere with interrogation.

Even after interrogation is completed, pretrial detention may continue on a variety of pretexts, such as preventing the defendant from destroying evidence. Criminal defense lawyers are the only people allowed to visit a detained suspect, and those meetings are strictly limited.

Partly as a result of these coercive practices, and partly as a result of the Japanese sense of shame, the confession rate is 95%.

For those few defendants who dare to go to trial, there is no jury. Since judges almost always defer to the prosecutors' judgment, the trial conviction rate for violent crime is 99.5%.
Of those convicted, 98% receive jail time.

In short, once a Japanese suspect is apprehended, the power of the prosecutor makes it very likely the suspect will go to jail. And the power of the policeman makes it quite likely that a criminal will be apprehended.

The police routinely ask "suspicious" characters to show what is in their purse or sack. In effect, the police can search almost anyone, almost anytime, because courts only rarely exclude evidence seized by the police -- even if the police acted illegally.

The most important element of police power, though, is not authority to search, but authority in the community. Like school teachers, Japanese policemen rate high in public esteem, especially in the countryside. Community leaders and role models, the police are trained in calligraphy and Haiku composition. In police per capita, Japan far outranks all other major democracies.

15,000 koban "police boxes" are located throughout the cities. Citizens go to the 24-hour-a-day boxes not only for street directions, but to complain about day-to-day problems, such as noisy neighbors, or to ask advice on how to raise children. Some of the policemen and their families live in the boxes. Police box officers clear 74.6% of all criminal cases cleared. Police box officers also spend time teaching neighborhood youth judo or calligraphy. The officers even hand- write their own newspapers, with information about crime and accidents, "stories about good deeds by children, and opinions of
residents."

The police box system contrasts sharply with the practice in America. Here, most departments adopt a policy of "stranger policing." To prevent corruption, police are frequently rotated from one neighborhood to another. But as federal judge Charles Silberman writes, "the cure is worse than the disease, for officers develop no sense of identification with their beats, hence no emotional stake in improving the quality of life there."

Thus, the U.S. citizenry does not develop a supportive relationship with the police. One poll showed that 60% of police officers believe "it is difficult to persuade people to give patrolmen the information they need."

The Japanese police do not spend all their time in the koban boxes. As the Japanese government puts it: "Home visit is one of the most important duties of officers assigned to police boxes." Making annual visits to each home in their beat, officers keep track of who lives where, and which family member to contact in case of emergency. 


The police also check on all gun licensees, to make sure no gun has been stolen or misused, that the gun is securely stored, and that the licensees are emotionally stable.

Gun banners might rejoice at a society where the police keep such a sharp eye on citizens' guns. But the price is that the police keep an eye on everything.

Policemen are apt to tell people reading sexually-oriented magazines to read something more worthwhile. Japan's major official year-end police report includes statistics like "Background and Motives for Girls' Sexual Misconduct." In 1985, the police determined that 37.4% of the girls had been seduced, and the rest had had sex "voluntarily." For the volunteers, 19.6% acted "out of curiosity", while for 18.1%, the motive was "liked particular boy." The year-end police report also includes sections on labor demands, and on anti-nuclear or anti-military demonstrations.*


----------



## Faun (Jul 10, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Nope...you did that......
> 
> And if you want to compare the total number of  accidental car deaths to  accidental gun deaths, you still lose....
> 
> ...



Your dementia worsens. No one is calling for more gun control over accidental shootings.


----------



## Faun (Jul 10, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Nope...apples to apples.....
> 
> And again.....cars accidentally kill more people than criminals kill using guns illegally to commit murder....
> 
> No matter how you slice it, cars are deadlier than guns......even in mass public attacks, trucks and cars kill more people than guys with rifle do....



See post #147.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 10, 2022)

Faun said:


> Your dementia worsens. No one is calling for more gun control over accidental shootings.




No.....not yet......they are calling for gun control over 6 individuals in 2021, 2 in 2020.........the rarest of rare events........and yet idiots like you want to use them to ban and confiscate guns....


----------



## Faun (Jul 10, 2022)

2aguy said:


> No.....not yet......



Thanks for admitting your post was nonsensical.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 10, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> It's a thread on USMB you lazy jackass.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lazy


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 10, 2022)

Faun said:


> Your dementia worsens. No one is calling for more gun control over accidental shootings.


No, you are calling for people control.


----------



## HenryBHough (Jul 10, 2022)

If this is what Japanese gun control can bring then I want it and I want it NOW.


----------



## Vagabond63 (Jul 11, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Yes, once in a blue moon a gun stops an incident. It has the same odds of a gun incident in Japan.


You do know that the writer of the article quoted by 2aguy was fired for sexual assault? Suppose that makes him an "exprt" on the subject...


----------



## NoNukes (Jul 11, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Soooo.....Japan has gun control....but the Prime Minister was shot..........how does that work?
> 
> *Shinzo Abe, former prime minister of Japan, reportedly suffered a gunshot wound while giving a campaign speech in Nara in western Japan ahead of Sunday’s election for the parliament’s upper house.*
> 
> ...


Illegal handguns cause such incidents. How stupid are you?


----------



## Vagabond63 (Jul 11, 2022)

2aguy said:


> You asked 10-15 years....2012, one of the years of the Yakuza war, is within that time frame.....that you want to pretend the Yakuza don't count is why we don't trust assholes like you....


But, but... one of your main arguments when anyone mentions the huge number of gun killings in America, is that you cannot count criminal on criminal gun violence. Well if that's the case, you can't count it in Japan or anywhere else in the world.


----------



## surada (Jul 11, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yes...again....remember.....Japan murdered 3 million innocent men, women and children during the war...committed atrocities they still haven't acknowledged......
> 
> So again......no comparison between us and them....
> 
> ...



How many gun crimes has Japan had in the past 5 years?


----------



## surada (Jul 11, 2022)

Captain Caveman 
🤣 He is a grade A idiot.


----------



## Faun (Jul 11, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> No, you are calling for people control.



Like telling adult women what they can and cannot do with their bodies.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 11, 2022)

Faun said:


> Like telling adult women what they can and cannot do with their bodies.


Right.  Exactly like that.  

The only difference is that gun rights are enumerated.

So we all agree that there should be no federal authority over guns or abortions, right?


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 11, 2022)

Vagabond63 said:


> But, but... one of your main arguments when anyone mentions the huge number of gun killings in America, is that you cannot count criminal on criminal gun violence. Well if that's the case, you can't count it in Japan or anywhere else in the world.





That is a lie...

Nope.....never said that....I correctly state that criminal on criminal violence is our main gun murder number, while mass public shootings is tiny in number and deaths......and that mixing the two together is a lie that anti-gun fanatics use to make it look like mass public shootings happen far more than they do.....

The number of actual mass public shootings in the U.S. in 2021 was 6....total killed 43.   The anti-gun fanatics claim it is hundreds of mass public shootings......the shootings they claim are criminals shooting at other criminals....and not actual mass public shootings...

Two very different acts....two very different solutions....but....with only 6 mass public shootings in 2021, and only 2 in 2022, it is hard to use numbers that low to stampede Americans into giving up their Rights....so they mix gangs shooting at each other with mass public shootings...to lie to uninformed people...

I also state that you can't count suicides in the gun murder rate, which anti-gun fanatics do all the time..

YOu guys, when I point out the fact that your criminals get guns easily...and that illegal guns are flooding Britain, as the police have stated to the press....don't count because their victims are criminals.  That is what you do...


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 11, 2022)

surada said:


> Captain Caveman
> 🤣 He is a grade A idiot.




A lot fewer once they began actually locking up Yakuza members who used guns.......I posted the difference between how they now handle their gun criminals......and how democrats in the U.S. handle our gun criminals.....I'll repeat it here....

You can see the difference...in Japan, if you are caught with an illegal gun you go to prison for 15 years.....if you have bullet with that gun, it is a longer sentence.....and you serve that sentence.....they do not plea bargain away the gun charge, you do not get bail...you do not get no cash bail....you serve 15 years.......

In the U.S.?

Japan’s gun control laws so strict the Yakuza turn to toy pistols



*Ryo Fujiwara, long-time writer on yakuza affairs and author of the book, The Three Yamaguchi-Gumi, says that the punishment for using a gun in a gang war or in a crime is now so heavy that most yakuza avoid their use at all – unless it is for an assassination.*

*“In a hit, whoever fires the gun, or is made to take responsibility for firing the gun, has to pretty much be willing to go to jail for the rest of their life. That’s a big decision. The repercussions are big, too. No one wants to claim responsibility for such acts – the gang office might actually get shut-down.”



The gang typically also has to support the family of the hit-man while he is in prison, which is also a financial burden for the organization.





Japan’s Firearms and Swords Control Laws make it a crime to illegally possess a gun, with a punishment of jail time of up to 10 years.*



*Illegal possession more than one gun, the penalty goes up to 15 years in prison. If you own a gun and matching ammunition, that’s another charge and a heavier penalty. The most severe penalty is for the act of discharging a gun in a train, on a bus, or most public spaces, which can result in a life sentence.*



*-----

A low-ranking member of the Kobe-Yamaguchi-gumi put it this way: “All of the smart guys got rid of their guns a long-time ago. The penalties are way too high. You get life in prison if you just fire a gun. That’s not fun.”



--A police officer in Osaka’s Organized Crime Control Division, speaking on background noted, “In the de facto world of law enforcement, when a yakuza fires a gun, we’re almost always going to charge them with attempted murder—which is a very heavy crime and serious time in ‘the pig-house’ (jail). Guns kill people, so if you use one, intent to kill is right there. Toy guns? Not so much.”

He added, “Unless you’re an old gangster and wanting to stay in jail until you die because you got nowhere else to go, you don’t use a gun. The crime isn’t worth the time in jail.”*





*In the U.S....how democrats deal with actual gun criminals....*



*Davis was originally arrested and charged with carrying a concealed weapon without a license in Detroit, and the judge assigned to his case ordered that Davis wear a GPS monitoring device as a condition of his bond.*



* There’s nothing unusual about that, but what’s raising eyebrows, particularly among local police, is what happened after prosecutors repeatedly told the judge that Davis was violating the terms of his bond, including allegedly taking part in a drive-by shooting.

-----*





*So, by the time Davis appeared before the judge in late May, he’d already had five alleged bond violations and two arrests for separate incidents, including the drive-by shooting. *





*The judge could have ordered Davis’ bond revoked and remanded him into custody until his trial, but instead Hathaway took a much different approach: continuing his bond but ordering the removal of the GPS monitoring device that had alerted authorities to his alleged lawbreaking.*

*----

As you might have guessed, that didn’t stop Davis’ alleged criminal activity. About a month later police, who were now paying attention to Davis’ social media feeds, watched on Instagram as Davis held a gun and allegedly threatened violence against other individuals.



http://[URL='https://bearingarms.co...e-study-in-not-enforcing-existing-laws-n60124[/URL]



The two illegal alien mass public shooters given 15,000 dollars bond...



Brietbart....



On Wednesday, as Breitbart News reported, the Richmond Police Department announced the arrests of Guatemalan nationals 52-year-old illegal alien Julio Alvardo Dubon and 38-year-old illegal alien Rolman Balacarcel Ac for allegedly plotting a mass shooting at the city’s July 4th celebration.

---*

The American citizen who thwarted the mass shooting plot called police after he heard a man discussing a plan to “shoot up” Richmond’s annual Fourth of July celebration.



That is when police raided Dubon’s residence to find two rifles, a handgun, and 223 rounds of ammunition. Dubon was subsequently charged with being in possession of a firearm as an alien to the U.S.

---

Dubon has been booked into the Richmond City Jail on a $15,000 bail. Though police said Ac was also booked, his records do not appear in the city jail’s records.

*

Illegal Aliens Plotted July 4th Mass Shooting, Thwarted by 'Hero Citizen'



4th of July Shootout Averted*

*See...it isn't that America has guns that is the difference.......if the Japanese had guns, they wouldn't use them to commit crimes....the culture doesn't allow it....while the democrat party here in the U.S. guarantees that violent gun offenders go free to keep shooting at people....

That is the difference....a difference that you guys don't want to acknowledge..........you just hate guns....*


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 11, 2022)

Faun said:


> Like telling adult women what they can and cannot do with their bodies.




We don't tell them what they can do with their bodies...we just don't want them murdering their babies because some left wing guy doesn't want to support the child...


----------



## surada (Jul 11, 2022)

2aguy said:


> A lot fewer once they began actually locking up Yakuza members who used guns.......I posted the difference between how they now handle their gun criminals......and how democrats in the U.S. handle our gun criminals.....I'll repeat it here....
> 
> You can see the difference...in Japan, if you are caught with an illegal gun you go to prison for 15 years.....if you have bullet with that gun, it is a longer sentence.....and you serve that sentence.....they do not plea bargain away the gun charge, you do not get bail...you do not get no cash bail....you serve 15 years.......
> 
> ...





2aguy said:


> A lot fewer once they began actually locking up Yakuza members who used guns.......I posted the difference between how they now handle their gun criminals......and how democrats in the U.S. handle our gun criminals.....I'll repeat it here....
> 
> You can see the difference...in Japan, if you are caught with an illegal gun you go to prison for 15 years.....if you have bullet with that gun, it is a longer sentence.....and you serve that sentence.....they do not plea bargain away the gun charge, you do not get bail...you do not get no cash bail....you serve 15 years.......
> 
> ...



Brietbart?

Did he also mentioned the size of our prison compared population to other countries?


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 11, 2022)

surada said:


> Brietbart?
> 
> Did he also mentioned the size of our prison compared population to other countries?




What does that matter?   Our culture is different......the democrat party has destroyed black families, as intended, using the Great Society to take fathers out of homes......creating fatherless boys and girls who now drive our crime rates in democrat party controlled cities....Japan has a conformist culture...you were shown the power that the police and prosecutors have in Japan.....

Leftists like you would be screeching like scalded cats if our police could do what Japanese police and prosecutors do to suspects.......a conformist society with a police state is how they keep their people in line......long prison sentences in terrible prisons.......

That is what you guys are promoting and you don't even understand it...


----------



## Faun (Jul 11, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> Right.  Exactly like that.
> 
> The only difference is that gun rights are enumerated.
> 
> So we all agree that there should be no federal authority over guns or abortions, right?



So is the right to the right to life and liberty.


----------



## Faun (Jul 11, 2022)

2aguy said:


> We don't tell them what they can do with their bodies...we just don't want them murdering their babies because some left wing guy doesn't want to support the child...



It's not your call to make. It's theirs. Telling them they can't get an abortion IS telling them what to do with their bodies. Your denial only exposes your dementia.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 11, 2022)

Faun said:


> So is the right to the right to life and liberty.


Yes.

Now tell me how that relates to my right to own firearms?


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 11, 2022)

2aguy said:


> That is a lie...
> 
> Nope.....never said that....I correctly state that criminal on criminal violence is our main gun murder number, while mass public shootings is tiny in number and deaths......and that mixing the two together is a lie that anti-gun fanatics use to make it look like mass public shootings happen far more than they do.....
> 
> ...


What's Japan's gun incident and mass shooting stats?

It's a simple enough question that the gun nuts have been asked, yet they fail the basic of tasks in supplying the data.


----------



## surada (Jul 11, 2022)

2aguy said:


> What does that matter?   Our culture is different......the democrat party has destroyed black families, as intended, using the Great Society to take fathers out of homes......creating fatherless boys and girls who now drive our crime rates in democrat party controlled cities....Japan has a conformist culture...you were shown the power that the police and prosecutors have in Japan.....
> 
> Leftists like you would be screeching like scalded cats if our police could do what Japanese police and prosecutors do to suspects.......a conformist society with a police state is how they keep their people in line......long prison sentences in terrible prisons.......
> 
> That is what you guys are promoting and you don't even understand it...



You sound like a 21 year old.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 11, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> Right.  Exactly like that.
> 
> *The only difference is that gun rights are enumerated*.
> 
> So we all agree that there should be no federal authority over guns or abortions, right?


And that's the only thing you can fall back on. You can't use statistics, you can't defence fallacies, you can't compare to other countries etc.. etc.., you can only fall back on, "We have the 2nd Amendment".

It's only the 2nd Amendment stopping proper gun regulations and laws to reduce gun incidents because the WHOLE planet knows how ridiculous the 2nd is, allowing any Tom Dick and Harry to wander about in public with loaded guns, and to leave them lying around the home for siblings to blast one another away.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 11, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> And that's the only thing you can fall back on. You can't use statistics, you can't defence fallacies, you can't compare to other countries etc.. etc.., you can only fall back on, "We have the 2nd Amendment".


That is all I need.  If the gun-grabbing left don't like it, they can amend the constitution.  They won't, because there is NO SUPPORT for such an amendment.  I wonder why?


Captain Caveman said:


> It's only the 2nd Amendment stopping proper gun regulations and laws to reduce gun incidents because the WHOLE planet knows how ridiculous the 2nd is, allowing any Tom Dick and Harry to wander about in public with loaded guns, and to leave them lying around the home for siblings to blast one another away.


It sounds like you want a constitutional amendment (which is none of your limey business, but whatever).

The gun grabbers can amend the constitution or SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 11, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> And that's the only thing you can fall back on. You can't use statistics, you can't defence fallacies, you can't compare to other countries etc.. etc.., you can only fall back on, "We have the 2nd Amendment".
> 
> It's only the 2nd Amendment stopping proper gun regulations and laws to reduce gun incidents because the WHOLE planet knows how ridiculous the 2nd is, allowing any Tom Dick and Harry to wander about in public with loaded guns, and to leave them lying around the home for siblings to blast one another away.


And, by the way....YOU ASSHOLES are the very reason we have a 2nd Amendment. 

Congratulations, dumb fucks.


----------



## Faun (Jul 11, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> Yes.
> 
> Now tell me how that relates to my right to own firearms?



You have that right as well.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 11, 2022)

Faun said:


> You have that right as well.


And?


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 11, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> That is all I need.  If the gun-grabbing left don't like it, they can amend the constitution.  They won't, because there is NO SUPPORT for such an amendment.  I wonder why?
> 
> It sounds like you want a constitutional amendment (which is none of your limey business, but whatever).
> 
> The gun grabbers can amend the constitution or SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!


The Left don't want to grab guns, just like in the UK, they want a safe gun culture. They want people to enjoy guns, but, those who are deemed suitable/responsible etc.. with suitable/responsible types of firearm. And to use them them in specific places, and not on the streets. This has been said a million times, yet you still haven't grasped it.

As for the 2nd, one day it will get amended.


----------



## HenryBHough (Jul 11, 2022)

NoNukes said:


> Illegal handguns cause such incidents. How stupid are you?


Ah, so because existing gun laws don't work we need more of the same so they won't work either.
But the mere creation of them sends tingles down your leg.
Got it!


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 11, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> And, by the way....YOU ASSHOLES are the very reason we have a 2nd Amendment.
> 
> Congratulations, dumb fucks.


The Bill of Rights contained Right to Bear Arms. That was scrapped a hundred years ago in the UK. America's will be scrapped too over the coming decades.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 11, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> And that's the only thing you can fall back on. You can't use statistics, you can't defence fallacies, you can't compare to other countries etc.. etc.., you can only fall back on, "We have the 2nd Amendment".
> 
> It's only the 2nd Amendment stopping proper gun regulations and laws to reduce gun incidents because the WHOLE planet knows how ridiculous the 2nd is, allowing any Tom Dick and Harry to wander about in public with loaded guns, and to leave them lying around the home for siblings to blast one another away.




We use statistics, truth, facts and reality...you simply ignore those things when you argue......Europeans murder 15 million innocent men, women and children in a 6 year period....you just fly right by that......for you, it can't happen again....even though it did happen the first time...in the modern period.......but giving up guns....that makes sense to you in the face of that nightmare.......

And it is still on going...in China, they are committing genocide against their own people....they have slavery.....and yet gun ownership is silly....

Right?


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 11, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> The Left don't want to grab guns, just like in the UK, they want a safe gun culture. They want people to enjoy guns, but, those who are deemed suitable/responsible etc.. with suitable/responsible types of firearm. And to use them them in specific places, and not on the streets. This has been said a million times, yet you still haven't grasped it.
> 
> As for the 2nd, one day it will get amended.




Yeah...answer this....

A woman wants a gun to keep from being raped, robbed, or murdered in her home or out in public.......the British police will not give her a permit because that isn't a good reason......

A member of the House of Lords wants to go bird hunting with his rich buddies on one of his many private estates.......the British police give him a gun, because hunting birds is a good reason to own a gun...

This, to you, makes sense.........

This is why we don't trust loons like you....


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 11, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> What's Japan's gun incident and mass shooting stats?
> 
> It's a simple enough question that the gun nuts have been asked, yet they fail the basic of tasks in supplying the data.




They haven't had them.....because their nuts choose not to do them.....

America, with over 330 million people had 6 in 2021.....2 in 2020

And your point is?


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 11, 2022)

Faun said:


> It's not your call to make. It's theirs. Telling them they can't get an abortion IS telling them what to do with their bodies. Your denial only exposes your dementia.




Nope.....telling someone they can't murder someone isn't telling them what they can't do with their bodies....it is telling them they can end the life of an innocent human being...


----------



## Faun (Jul 11, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Nope.....telling someone they can't murder someone isn't telling them what they can't do with their bodies....it is telling them they can end the life of an innocent human being...



Still not a person in the reach of the Constitution; whereas a woman is. So no, not murder.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 11, 2022)

Faun said:


> Still not a person in the reach of the Constitution; whereas a woman is. So no, not murder.




Murder isn't in the reach of the Constitution?


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 11, 2022)

2aguy said:


> We use statistics, truth, facts and reality...you simply ignore those things when you argue......Europeans murder 15 million innocent men, women and children in a 6 year period....you just fly right by that......for you, it can't happen again....even though it did happen the first time...in the modern period.......but giving up guns....that makes sense to you in the face of that nightmare.......
> 
> And it is still on going...in China, they are committing genocide against their own people....they have slavery.....and yet gun ownership is silly....
> 
> Right?


No you don't, you twist every kind of shit that's going. You cut the shit and list Japan's gun incidents stats.

The planet works in the same units. You compare something in inches to inches, miles to miles, light years to light years. So you need to compare guns to guns. Otherwise, the maths do not work.

Now, you started a thread about guns and Japan, so you need to keep in the same units, guns. So you need to compare the US gun stats to the Japanese gun stats. Otherwise, we shot bla bla, versus their bla bla sword killings.

Now come on, it's your thread, we all know you fucked up trying to drag 1 Japanese gun incident to support your anal agenda for the 2nd Amendment, and from the very start, you've avoided every question because you know fine well that your brain wasn't in gear. So man up, give yourself a shake, and sort yourself out.

At the end of the day, it's two things, we like guns, and 2nd amendment. And that alone is your argument, nothing more, nothing less. Nothing on the planet warrants/supports the 2nd, and you know it, but can't/won't admit it.

You've been backed up in so many corners, they out number the total number of corners in every house on the planet.

And this will fly right through your lugs, because, there's absolutely nothing in the middle to stop it.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 11, 2022)

2aguy said:


> They haven't had them.....because their nuts choose not to do them.....
> 
> America, with over 330 million people had 6 in 2021.....2 in 2020
> 
> And your point is?


My point? So you had 6 gun incidents in 2021, and 2 in 2020.

What a pillock.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 11, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> No you don't, you twist every kind of shit that's going. You cut the shit and list Japan's gun incidents stats.
> 
> The planet works in the same units. You compare something in inches to inches, miles to miles, light years to light years. So you need to compare guns to guns. Otherwise, the maths do not work.
> 
> ...




Nope......you want to make this a gun issue and it isn't...you could give every single Japanese citizen a gun and they wouldn't use it for crime.......and if the Japanese people wanted to commit crimes with guns, the market would get them guns....

I listed exactly what Japan does to stop their actual criminals who use guns....they lock them up for 15 years for mere possession of a gun.....

I then showed you that the democrat party prosecutors simply refuse to lock up gun criminals, dismissing gun charges, and that democrat party judges give repeat gun offenders bail, no cash bail, and even take them off of the ankle monitor for home confinement...

You guys want to lie and make this a gun issue......this is a criminal issue, and how Japan and the U.S. differ in how they prosecute gun crimes....


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 11, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> My point? So you had 6 gun incidents in 2021, and 2 in 2020.
> 
> What a pillock.




6 mass public shootings in 2021.....

2 mass public shootings in 2020

In a country with over 330 million people...

care to run the math on that and tell us what percent of the population that represents?


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 11, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Nope......you want to make this a gun issue and it isn't...you could give every single Japanese citizen a gun and they wouldn't use it for crime.......and if the Japanese people wanted to commit crimes with guns, the market would get them guns....
> 
> I listed exactly what Japan does to stop their actual criminals who use guns....they lock them up for 15 years for mere possession of a gun.....
> 
> ...


Hold on, I read your first line and stopped.

*YOU* made it a gun issue, and you've done everything since to avoid guns.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 11, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Hold on, I read your first line and stopped.
> 
> *YOU* made it a gun issue, and you've done everything since to avoid guns.



Nope….I made it a gun control issue….the gun laws of Japan didn’t stop that shooting…did they?


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 11, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Nope….I made it a gun control issue….the gun laws of Japan didn’t stop that shooting…did they?


The gun laws in Japan didn't stop that shooting. Ok, what are Japan's gun incident stats to see the effect of Japanese gun laws.

Laws don't stop, they reduce. I know your head doesn't retain such info, fuck all in it, but we've gone full circle, back to you trying to list the gun incidents in Japan to give weight to your thread 

I bet you feel like a right prick.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 11, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> The gun laws in Japan didn't stop that shooting. Ok, what are Japan's gun incident stats to see the effect of Japanese gun laws.


Japanese people are more likely to commit suicide than homicide. 

You're trying to cram a cultural argument into a gun debate.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 11, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> The gun laws in Japan didn't stop that shooting. Ok, what are Japan's gun incident stats to see the effect of Japanese gun laws.
> 
> Laws don't stop, they reduce. I know your head doesn't retain such info, fuck all in it, but we've gone full circle, back to you trying to list the gun incidents in Japan to give weight to your thread
> 
> I bet you feel like a right prick.



Again…..you are saying their gun control laws keep their shootings low…that isn’t true….

Their culture and their sentencing laws keep their criminals from shooting each other in all but very specific attacks

Again…..if you gave Japanese citizens guns…they wouldn’t use them for crime……


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 12, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> Japanese people are more likely to commit suicide than homicide.
> 
> You're trying to cram a cultural argument into a gun debate.


No, your boyfriend 2aguy started a thread on guns in Japan. So do you have above two brain cells to list Japan's gun stats?

If you want to compare suicides, then start a thread so you can analyse cultural differences that result in the numbers. The grown ups here want to discuss the intentions of the thread, guns. But even 2aguy that started the thread is unable to too. But there again, I did say grown ups.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 12, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Again…..you are saying their gun control laws keep their shootings low…that isn’t true….
> 
> Their culture and their sentencing laws keep their criminals from shooting each other in all but very specific attacks
> 
> Again…..if you gave Japanese citizens guns…they wouldn’t use them for crime……


Your IQ is lower than the deepest hole dug by mankind. No wonder Americans get a bad wrap when the likes of you are on display.


----------



## Faun (Jul 12, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Murder isn't in the reach of the Constitution?



The Constitution doesn't consider that murder. You do. You're not the Constitution.


----------

