# How Stalin Fooled the World and Why It Matters Today



## American_Jihad

Comrade Stalin holding little mememe

*How Stalin Fooled the World and Why It Matters Today*​
March 20, 2013 
By Daniel Greenfield

There are two ways that liberal historians usually look at Stalin. The most leftward of these is to see Stalin as a victim of German and American imperialism who struggled to maintain the peace in the face of aggressive expansionistic efforts by Nazi Germany and the United States.

Such a revisionist history would seem to have been thoroughly discredited in this day and age, despite its persistence in the early days of the Cold War, but it continues resurfacing, most recently in an Oliver Stone documentary series.

But for the most part, Khrushchevs disavowal of Stalin completed a process that began once the Soviet dictator cut a deal with Hitler, triggering a growing Destalinization cascade on the left. Stalinists still persisted in the West, but their influence on the authoring of history steadily diminished. Instead they embraced a different version of history that would salvage the ideological integrity of the left.

In this more conventional version of history, Stalin was not truly a Communist, but a non-ideological dictator who had seized control of the Soviet ship of state and transformed a promisingly progressive revolution into a backward feudal tyranny.

...

This question, like so many of the others in Stalins Curse, remains applicable today. While Stalin is dead, there are many lesser Stalins like Morsi, small vicious men with an unlimited capacity for bloodshed and an even more unlimited ability to fool Western leaders into believing in their sincerity and goodness.

The negotiations that allowed Stalin to gobble up so many countries have been repeated again and again. And every time that diplomats call for a diplomatic solution in North Korea and Iran, we find ourselves back sitting across the table from Uncle Joe.

And that may be Stalins true curse.

How Stalin Fooled the World and Why It Matters Today


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## Saigon

> The most leftward of these is to see Stalin as a victim of German and American imperialism who struggled to maintain the peace in the face of aggressive expansionistic efforts by Nazi Germany and the United States.



Nonsense. 

By all means back up this claim with some links or examples - but you won't find much.

Stalin is almost universally regarded by left and right as a dictator, a tryant and a mad man. The fact that he worked with the Alies to defeat Hitler does not change that.


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## there4eyeM

Stalin and all other authoritarians who want to make the state a quasi religion are enemies to the human spirit. Systems exist for people, not the other was around. This is how all such 'leaders' can be grouped together, no matter how different their political labels.

There are, nonetheless, huge differences in approach to making life the best it can be for the most of humanity's members. We need adaptability, not inflexible ideology.


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## editec

> There are two ways that liberal historians usually look at Stalin.



Bullshit.

Site your sources of "liberal historians"

I'm guessing you don't read much history.

CLEARLY you don't understand what history really is.


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## Emir

Saigon said:


> The most leftward of these is to see Stalin as a victim of German and American imperialism who struggled to maintain the peace in the face of aggressive expansionistic efforts by Nazi Germany and the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> By all means back up this claim with some links or examples - but you won't find much.
> 
> Stalin is almost universally regarded by left and right as a dictator, a tryant and a mad man. The fact that he worked with the Alies to defeat Hitler does not change that.
Click to expand...


Indeed. Socialists in the west have spent the past 90 years trying to explain that you can have socialism without Marxist-Leninism (and especially the horrors of Stalinism, though one might argue that Stalinism is the logical extension of Marxist-Leninism).


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## rdean

Bush fooled the world.


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## Unkotare

mememe likes to be dominated by a 'strong' figure. She gets all worked up at being forced to submit. She's got issues.


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## Emir

mememe said:


> Emir said:
> 
> 
> 
> horrors of Stalinism, though one might argue that Stalinism is the logical extension of Marxist-Leninism).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet another idiocy of an American brain.
> 
> 1. "Horrors" of "Stalinism" exist only in the heads of Westerners poisoned by US post-WW2 propaganda machine they borrowed off Nazi Germany.
Click to expand...

Then what was the Holodomor?



mememe said:


> 2. You already live in a society governed by IDEOLOGY of liberal Marxist-TROTSKIST postulates.


Oh lord, you're a Trotskyist? 



mememe said:


> 3. Socialism is NOT an ideology; it is an ECONOMIC SYSTEM that puts a stop to dictatorship of corporate financial and industrial elite. That's why socialism is so enthusiastically discredited in the West via corporate media and other propaganda tools.


Socialism is most certainly an ideology, or perhaps an umbrella term for a number of anti-capitalist ideologies. Unless you really think Marx and Proudhon envisioned the same economic system.


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## Vandalshandle

Stalin did not fool anybody. We probably could not have defeated Germany without him. We also knew that if we went to war with the Soviet union in 1945, we would not have won.  Thier dead in WW2 was almost equal to 100% of our men in uniform. Containment was the best that we could hope to achieve.


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## Saigon

Vandalshandle said:


> Stalin did not fool anybody. We probably could not have defeated Germany without him. We also knew that if we went to war with the Soviet union in 1945, we would not have won.  Thier dead in WW2 was almost equal to 100% of our men in uniform. Containment was the best that we could hope to achieve.



Exactly. 

And Stalin likely could not have defended Moscow without American help. At the time the US began to supply trucks Stalin was on the point of being overthrown by his own people, and the Soviets were facing the potential loss of Moscow, Stalingrad and Leningrad. More importantly, they were facing the loss of Baku's oil fields, which were only saved as it was by a strategic error on Hitler's part.


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## t_polkow

mememe said:


> Emir said:
> 
> 
> 
> horrors of Stalinism, though one might argue that Stalinism is the logical extension of Marxist-Leninism).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet another idiocy of an American brain.
> 
> 1. "Horrors" of "Stalinism" exist only in the heads of Westerners poisoned by US post-WW2 propaganda machine they borrowed off Nazi Germany.
> 
> 2. You already live in a society governed by IDEOLOGY of liberal Marxist-TROTSKIST postulates.
> 
> 3. Socialism is NOT an ideology; it is an ECONOMIC SYSTEM that puts a stop to dictatorship of corporate financial and industrial elite. That's why socialism is so enthusiastically discredited in the West via corporate media and other propaganda tools.
Click to expand...


So many Trotskyites , not enough ice picks!  

Trotsky, Strauss, and the Neocons, by Justin Raimondo


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## t_polkow

Saigon said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stalin did not fool anybody. We probably could not have defeated Germany without him. We also knew that if we went to war with the Soviet union in 1945, we would not have won.  Thier dead in WW2 was almost equal to 100% of our men in uniform. Containment was the best that we could hope to achieve.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly.
> 
> And Stalin likely could not have defended Moscow without American help. At the time the US began to supply trucks Stalin was on the point of being overthrown by his own people, and the Soviets were facing the potential loss of Moscow, Stalingrad and Leningrad. More importantly, they were facing the loss of Baku's oil fields, which were only saved as it was by a strategic error on Hitler's part.
Click to expand...



"Stalin was on the point of being overthrown by his own people,"

Pulling stuff out of your ass with no basis in fact


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## Saigon

t_polkow said:


> "Stalin was on the point of being overthrown by his own people,"
> 
> Pulling stuff out of your ass with no basis in fact



Actually, I pulled it out of Montiefiore's 'In the Court of The Red Tsar'. Do you need a page number?


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## Oddball

Vandalshandle said:


> Stalin did not fool anybody. We probably could not have defeated Germany without him. We also knew that if we went to war with the Soviet union in 1945, we would not have won.  Thier dead in WW2 was almost equal to 100% of our men in uniform. Containment was the best that we could hope to achieve.


What a bunch of crap.

Hitler couldn't even cross the English Channel....The reds would've eventually defeated Germany.

And America could've beat the living hell out of Stalin in a few months...We had the bomb.


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## MHunterB

mememe said:


> American Jihad just can't stop posting proofs of American stupidity and ignorance!
> 
> LOL!


You misspelled 'Stalinist', Mimi........


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## High_Gravity

mememe said:


> American Jihad just can't stop posting proofs of American stupidity and ignorance!
> 
> LOL!



mememe is such a dumb whore.


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## editec

Vandalshandle said:


> Stalin did not fool anybody.



Well, not for long at any rate.



> We probably could not have defeated Germany without him.



I'd say that's very likely true.  Without Stalin's Eastern Front, England would have fallen.  
Without a place to prepare to invade (England) we could not have taken back Europe in time and in all likeihood Germany's nuclear bombs would have started dropping on US soil by the late 40s or early 50s.




> We also knew that if we went to war with the Soviet union in 1945, we would not have won.



Not without nuking most of Europe, no.




> Thier dead in WW2 was almost equal to 100% of our men in uniform. Containment was the best that we could hope to achieve.



Yes.  I think I read somewhere that the Russians lost more troops at the defence of Stalingrad that we lost in the entire war of Europe AND the Pacific.

The Russian people's contribution to the defeat of NAZI Germany was AMAZING.

But, and this is about the OINLY good thing I can say about Papa Joe, without him behind them (scaring the shit of them) I doubt they'd have beaten Germany back.


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## Flopper

Saigon said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stalin did not fool anybody. We probably could not have defeated Germany without him. We also knew that if we went to war with the Soviet union in 1945, we would not have won.  Thier dead in WW2 was almost equal to 100% of our men in uniform. Containment was the best that we could hope to achieve.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly.
> 
> And Stalin likely could not have defended Moscow without American help. At the time the US began to supply trucks Stalin was on the point of being overthrown by his own people, and the Soviets were facing the potential loss of Moscow, Stalingrad and Leningrad. More importantly, they were facing the loss of Baku's oil fields, which were only saved as it was by a strategic error on Hitler's part.
Click to expand...

No doubt supplies from the US were vital in the Russian defense.  However, Russia prevailed more because of the German arrogance and stupidity.  The needless slaughter of civilians had the opposite effect the Germans had intended. German supply lines were far longer than their effective limit.  German troops were short just about everything.  Stalin kept digging up more and more untrained troops to throw at the Germans.  Eventually, the Russians just wore the Germans out.  Historians see this as the point in which the key German generals became convinced that  Germany would not win the war.

Stalin was a ruthless dictator but his decision to sacrifice over 10,000,000 of his own people to stop Hitler saved the nation and probably won the war.  By the end WWII, Russian losses accounted for 70% of the dead and missing.


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## Ringel05

Flopper said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stalin did not fool anybody. We probably could not have defeated Germany without him. We also knew that if we went to war with the Soviet union in 1945, we would not have won.  Thier dead in WW2 was almost equal to 100% of our men in uniform. Containment was the best that we could hope to achieve.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly.
> 
> And Stalin likely could not have defended Moscow without American help. At the time the US began to supply trucks Stalin was on the point of being overthrown by his own people, and the Soviets were facing the potential loss of Moscow, Stalingrad and Leningrad. More importantly, they were facing the loss of Baku's oil fields, which were only saved as it was by a strategic error on Hitler's part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No doubt supplies from the US were vital in the Russian defense.  However, Russia prevailed more because of the German arrogance and stupidity.  The needless slaughter of civilians had the opposite effect the Germans had intended. German supply lines were far longer than their effective limit.  German troops were short just about everything.  Stalin kept digging up more and more untrained troops to throw at the Germans.  Eventually, the Russians just wore the Germans out.  Historians see this as the point in which the key German generals became convinced that  Germany would not win the war.
Click to expand...


Also Stalin had troops sitting on their hands in Siberia facing of against a potential Japanese attack.  When Soviet spies found out the Japs had no intention of attacking Stalin moved most of those troops to Stalingrad for the encirclement, sealing the Germans fate.


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## Unkotare

Vandalshandle said:


> We also knew that if we went to war with the Soviet union in 1945, we would not have won.





In 1945? Of course we would have won.


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## Spoonman

stalin was a necessary evil.  prior to hiltler attacking russia, stalin signed a non aggression pact with Germany and allied with them.  he only reached out ot the allies when hitler became his enemy.  the allies only aided him because we needed him to defeat germany quicker.   and remember, after Germany was defeated stalin refused to lend aid against japan until their defeat was already a done deal.


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## Vandalshandle

Unkotare said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> We also knew that if we went to war with the Soviet union in 1945, we would not have won.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1945? Of course we would have won.
Click to expand...


The only person who thought that was Patton, and he LIVED to make war.


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## CrusaderFrank

The "American" Left loves Uncles Joe


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## CrusaderFrank

Vandalshandle said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> We also knew that if we went to war with the Soviet union in 1945, we would not have won.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1945? Of course we would have won.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only person who thought that was Patton, and he LIVED to make war.
Click to expand...


If Patton, and not Bradley was leading US forces, we would have been in Berlin in March 1945 and had taken Prague and Vienna as well and the USSR could forget about their "Buffer zone"


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## Unkotare

Vandalshandle said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> We also knew that if we went to war with the Soviet union in 1945, we would not have won.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1945? Of course we would have won.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only person who thought that was Patton, and he LIVED to make war.
Click to expand...




The Soviets had already lost almost everyone who knew how to fight, and millions more who were literally used as cannon fodder. Starvation was rampant. Even before the slaughter, Stalin had purged most mid-level officers who actually ran things. The Soviets couldn't even have held out as courageously and suicidally as they did without the millions of tons of supplies we sent them. AND, we had the bomb then and they did not. After we dropped the last of our two on Nagasaki you have to know folks were mighty busy making more. 

In 1945? Of course we would have won. However, the American people were in no mood for more war just then, and it certainly would have been seen as doing things the hard way when containment presented another option (despite what an arguably worse choice that turned out to be).


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## Oddball

Vandalshandle said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> We also knew that if we went to war with the Soviet union in 1945, we would not have won.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1945? Of course we would have won.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only person who thought that was Patton, and he LIVED to make war.
Click to expand...

We had the bomb and the commies didn't.

The Red Army wouldn't have waited for the second one to be dropped on Russia before they started surrendering to the American army, in numbers that would've made the German surrender look like a Boy Scout troop meeting.


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## Unkotare

mememe gets off on being 'dictated' to in every available orifice. She certainly gives her all for (to?) the people.


.............


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## Unkotare

Oddball said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> In 1945? Of course we would have won.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only person who thought that was Patton, and he LIVED to make war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We had the bomb and the commies didn't.
> 
> The Red Army wouldn't have waited for the second one to be dropped on Russia before they started surrendering to the American army, in numbers that would've made the German surrender look like a Boy Scout troop meeting.
Click to expand...




Only we wouldn't have rushed in to rape every nun in the country the way the russians did.


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## Flopper

Spoonman said:


> stalin was a necessary evil.  prior to hiltler attacking russia, stalin signed a non aggression pact with Germany and allied with them.  he only reached out ot the allies when hitler became his enemy.  the allies only aided him because we needed him to defeat germany quicker.   and remember, after Germany was defeated stalin refused to lend aid against japan until their defeat was already a done deal.


Unlike Hitler and Mussolini, Hitler and Stalin were never on friendly terms.  Both harbored a deep distrust of each other.  

Hitler had seen first hand in WWI the problem of fighting a war on two fronts.  Hitler promised Stalin half of Poland, the Baltic States, and farm machinery.  Stalin needed only to provide some food products and stay out of the war, a deal too good to be true, which of course it was.

Stalin was smart, very focused, a sociopath, and extremely paranoid, the makings of a great dictator and a miserable example of a human being.


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## Ringel05

mememe said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also Stalin had troops sitting on their hands in Siberia facing of against a potential Japanese attack.  When Soviet spies found out the Japs had no intention of attacking Stalin moved most of those troops to Stalingrad for the encirclement, sealing the Germans fate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?!
> 
> I thought "Japs had no intention of attacking" because the USSR defeated them TWICE just prior to German invasion! Apparently, Soviets did not know about it until the winter of 1942? Amazing knowledge...
Click to expand...


By defeated you mean the Soviets stopped two Japanese assaults, right?  And this equates to their knowing the Japanese weren't planning and or intending another one......?  Sure thing there Sparky.  Maybe if you actually read more than Soviet "history" books.........


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## Flopper

mememe said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also Stalin had troops sitting on their hands in Siberia facing of against a potential Japanese attack.  When Soviet spies found out the Japs had no intention of attacking Stalin moved most of those troops to Stalingrad for the encirclement, sealing the Germans fate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?!
> 
> I thought "Japs had no intention of attacking" because the USSR defeated them TWICE just prior to German invasion! Apparently, Soviets did not know about it until the winter of 1942? Amazing knowledge...
Click to expand...

The Soviet Japanese conflict was a series of border wars in Manchuria and Mongolia from about 1932 to end of WWII.  War with the US, drew Japan's focus and resources away from Asia and allowed Stalin to move troops to the eastern front.


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## Oddball

mememe said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Red Army wouldn't have waited for the second one to be dropped on Russia before they started surrendering to the American army, in numbers that would've made the German surrender look like a Boy Scout troop meeting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah?
> 
> You can't even defeat Afghan goat herders! And that's with the whole of NATO helping you.
Click to expand...

WTF are you blabbering about?


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## Emir

mememe said:


> Emir said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then what was the Holodomor?
> 
> 
> Oh lord, you're a Trotskyist?
> 
> 
> Socialism is most certainly an ideology,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a) not "holodomor", but "golodomor", since "holod" means "cold" while "golod" means "hunger". But, I guess, it's all the same to Western propaganda consumers.
> b) what you call "holodomor" is US invented name for famine that happened in Ukraine in 1930. Same famine at the same time also happened in other regions of the Soviet Union; in Poland, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, Germany, US and UK.
> If you are about to blame famine in USSR on Stalin, then tell me who is to blame for famine in other countries?
> 
> Are you an idiot? (rhetorical question)
> 
> Maybe in USA. For the rest of the world it is an economic system.
Click to expand...


It's a shame you cannot be reasoned with. But you apparently know Undisputable Truth. I'll leave you to it then, Mr. True Believer.


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## Oddball

mememe said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mememe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah?
> 
> You can't even defeat Afghan goat herders! And that's with the whole of NATO helping you.
> 
> 
> 
> WTF are you blabbering about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> About your wet dream of how the Red Army "started surrendering to the American army".
Click to expand...

You've officially zoomed past Ravi stupid, on your break-neck pace to surpass Truthmatters stupid...


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## Ringel05

mememe said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> By defeated you mean the Soviets stopped two Japanese assaults, right?  And this equates to their knowing the Japanese weren't planning and or intending another one......?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's right! Japanese even signed this little bit of paper saying they are not going to attack.
> 
> And all that without murdering the population of two mega cities, mind you!
Click to expand...


Oh wait a minute, I seem to recall Germany and the Soviet Union had a non-agression treaty.... a signed little piece of paper....... 
Oh yeah, Japan and Russia were traditional enemies...... Uuummmmmm, Germany violated their non-aggression treaty....... Japan was allied with Germany...... Traditional enemy........ Oh yeah, I forgot, Stalin had a crystal ball and could see what was going on as it was happening.  Silly me, why didn't I remember that? 

Ewe are


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## Unkotare

mememe said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also Stalin had troops sitting on their hands in Siberia facing of against a potential Japanese attack.  When Soviet spies found out the Japs had no intention of attacking Stalin moved most of those troops to Stalingrad for the encirclement, sealing the Germans fate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?!
> 
> I thought "Japs had no intention of attacking" because the USSR defeated them TWICE just prior to German invasion! Apparently, Soviets did not know about it until the winter of 1942? Amazing knowledge...
Click to expand...




Even today you can still smell the humiliation of the Russo-Japanese War all over 'people' like mememe. Sacrificing the tsar and even murdering the children in his family didn't wash away the shame, did it? 


Somewhere in Siberia teams of experts are still searching for the nation's balls...


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## Oddball

Unlike you, I can grasp a lot of things, idjit.


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## Ringel05

mememe said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh wait a minute, I seem to recall Germany and the Soviet Union had a non-agression treaty.... a signed little piece of paper.......
> Oh yeah, Japan and Russia were traditional enemies...... Uuummmmmm, Germany violated their non-aggression treaty....... Japan was allied with Germany...... Traditional enemy........ Oh yeah, I forgot, Stalin had a crystal ball and could see what was going on as it was happening.  Silly me, why didn't I remember that?
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Oh, wait a minute, I seem to recall you insisting that the Soviet Union did not know that Japanese signed a non-aggression pact!*
> 
> 
> And now  you are diverting attention to Soviet-German pact as a way to conceal your mishap.
> 
> You see, the fact that Germany will attack the Soviet Union was not a secret; and both sides knew it. The question was -- when it will happen.
> Japan, on the other hand, signed the pact AFTER it was defeated. See the difference?
> 
> And no, you are not "silly". You are IGNORANT.
Click to expand...


Are you a complete moron or is reading comprehension not one of you strong points??!!!
(Why am I asking that, of course it's true.......)

You are the one who brought it up, not me. 
As for the knowledge that the Germans would attack yes, everyone knew but Stalin refused to believe it.  Afterwards what makes you think Stalin would trust Japan not to violate their non-aggression pact? 
I swear, calling you a moron is an insult to morons.  Dayamn, no one can possibly be as willfully and blindly stupid as you are and I'm being kind.


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## Unkotare

mememe said:


> Not allowed for publishing in the US for obvious reasons.






"Not allowed" and 'Nobody cares to buy it' are not the same thing, borscht for brains. In fact, that title is available on amazon.com right now. Would you like to be stupid some more, or is that enough for one day?


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## MHunterB

Oddball said:


> Unlike you, I can grasp a lot of things, idjit.



No fair - you shouldn't be reminding Mimi that it needs a magnifying glass and a pair of tweezers to 'grasp' its mosquito-tickler to get its pinhead-size 'rocks' off..........


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## Unkotare

mememe said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even today you can still smell the humiliation of the Russo-Japanese War .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What you smell is not a "Russo-Japanese War", it's shit and lard that dribbles out of your brain onto your keyboard.
Click to expand...



Did that post make the shame go away? No, it didn't. Nothing seems to work, huh?


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## Oddball

mememe said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike you, I can grasp a lot of things,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, like lots of pizzas and big macs.
Click to expand...


Huh?...Was that supposed to be some kind of zinger?


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## Flopper

mememe said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Soviet Japanese conflict was a series of border wars in Manchuria and Mongolia from about 1932 to end of WWII.  .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It gets better and better!
> 
> Please, do tell me where did USSR fight Japanese after 13 of April 1941?!
> I would love to know!
Click to expand...

On August 9, 1945, the Soviets invaded the Japanese puppet state of Manchukuo and was the largest campaign of the 1945 SovietJapanese War which resumed hostilities between the Soviet Union and the Empire of Japan after more than four years of peace. 

Soviet invasion of Manchuria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## whitehall

It's wasn't hard to fool the fledgling CIA back in the 40's and 50's. As a matter of fact it was never hard to fool the CIA. FDR used to call Stalin "uncle Joe" and share jokes with him about Churchill. FDR can be excused for his conduct because he was a tired old and possibly brain damaged corpse that democrats propped up to run for a 4th term. Truman understood Stalin's threat but the mainstream media was in love with communism and socialism as they are today.


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## Spoonman

mememe said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> stalin was a necessary evil.  .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who the fuck are you to call one of the most popular statesmen in the history of Russia -- "evil"?!
> 
> You want to see evil? You look at entire history of America. You started by robbing the natives off their land and murdering them; and you are finishing by robbing the world and murdering other nations!
Click to expand...


not only was he evil, he sucked


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## American_Jihad

CrusaderFrank said:


> The "American" Left loves Uncles Joe



That's one of the reasons for the thread, to flush them out. I also wanted to show saigon the journalist from hellstinky how the leftist ilk on this forum defend the great murdering beast, stinky I hope this thread proved my point...


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## Saigon

American_Jihad said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "American" Left loves Uncles Joe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's one of the reasons for the thread, to flush them out. I also wanted to show saigon the journalist from hellstinky how the leftist ilk on this forum defend the great murdering beast, stinky I hope this thread proved my point...
Click to expand...


It proved the point alright -  NOT A SINGLE POSTER defended Stalin. Not one. 

An honest poster would admit that and apologise.


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## Unkotare

Saigon said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "American" Left loves Uncles Joe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's one of the reasons for the thread, to flush them out. I also wanted to show saigon the journalist from hellstinky how the leftist ilk on this forum defend the great murdering beast, stinky I hope this thread proved my point...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It proved the point alright -  NOT A SINGLE POSTER defended Stalin. Not one.
> 
> An honest poster would admit that and apologise.
Click to expand...




Perseensuti's limited English lets him down again.


----------



## blackcherry

American_Jihad said:


> The day you prove anything ,  apart from your naivety ,  is the day I will choke to death from surprise .
> I suggest you worry more about your self than other people .
> Because  when we assume strong leadership  ,  you will be one of the first to be put at the back of the class with a Dunce's cap on .


----------



## Ringel05

Saigon said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "American" Left loves Uncles Joe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's one of the reasons for the thread, to flush them out. I also wanted to show saigon the journalist from hellstinky how the leftist ilk on this forum defend the great murdering beast, stinky I hope this thread proved my point...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It proved the point alright -  NOT A SINGLE POSTER defended Stalin. Not one.
> 
> An honest poster would admit that and apologise.
Click to expand...


Mememe did but again, it might be a stretch to consider him/her/it a poster. 
As for the OPs intent, yeah so many on the left are card carrying members of the American Communist Party.......... Yeah, right...........


----------



## Saigon

Ringel -

I have mememe on ignore mode! 

So let's make my statement read:

It proved the point alright - NOT A SINGLE 'SANE' POSTER defended Stalin. Not one.


----------



## Ringel05

Saigon said:


> Ringel -
> 
> I have mememe on ignore mode!
> 
> So let's make my statement read:
> 
> It proved the point alright - NOT A SINGLE 'SANE' POSTER defended Stalin. Not one.



Granted, many here might consider me "less than sane" but from a cultural and historical, non-judgemental standpoint I might be willing to "defend" Stalin, to a certain degree if that's what people want to call it.  I'll call it recognizing historical fact and tying it to Russian peoples cultural norms to explain why Stalin did some of the things he did and why the west, specifically England was most responsible for starting the cold war.  
Or not.  My back just woke me up after 4 hours of sleep, hoping it settles down soon so I can go back to bed. 
BTW, why have someone like that on ignore?  Do you realize the entertainment factor you're missing??!!


----------



## Sallow

Vandalshandle said:


> Stalin did not fool anybody. *We probably could not have defeated Germany without him.* We also knew that if we went to war with the Soviet union in 1945, we would not have won.  Thier dead in WW2 was almost equal to 100% of our men in uniform. Containment was the best that we could hope to achieve.



Absolutely.

This is the probably with conservative analysis. It's binary. It's incredibly naive. And it's almost childish.

It's extremely hard to take any of them even remotely seriously.


----------



## rightwinger

What was the US bargaining position in these negotiations?

The USSR had already won the battles of Stalingrad and Kursk. They already had a massive Army on the continent and were moving westward

We had not even invaded Normandy yet


----------



## Toronado3800

American_Jihad said:


> Comrade Stalin holding little mememe
> 
> *How Stalin Fooled the World and Why It Matters Today*​
> March 20, 2013
> By Daniel Greenfield
> 
> There are two ways that liberal historians usually look at Stalin. The most leftward of these is to see Stalin as a victim of German and American imperialism who struggled to maintain the peace in the face of aggressive expansionistic efforts by Nazi Germany and the United States.
> 
> Such a revisionist history would seem to have been thoroughly discredited in this day and age, despite its persistence in the early days of the Cold War, but it continues resurfacing, most recently in an Oliver Stone documentary series.
> 
> But for the most part, Khrushchevs disavowal of Stalin completed a process that began once the Soviet dictator cut a deal with Hitler, triggering a growing Destalinization cascade on the left. Stalinists still persisted in the West, but their influence on the authoring of history steadily diminished. Instead they embraced a different version of history that would salvage the ideological integrity of the left.
> 
> In this more conventional version of history, Stalin was not truly a Communist, but a non-ideological dictator who had seized control of the Soviet ship of state and transformed a promisingly progressive revolution into a backward feudal tyranny.
> 
> ...
> 
> This question, like so many of the others in Stalins Curse, remains applicable today. While Stalin is dead, there are many lesser Stalins like Morsi, small vicious men with an unlimited capacity for bloodshed and an even more unlimited ability to fool Western leaders into believing in their sincerity and goodness.
> 
> The negotiations that allowed Stalin to gobble up so many countries have been repeated again and again. And every time that diplomats call for a diplomatic solution in North Korea and Iran, we find ourselves back sitting across the table from Uncle Joe.
> 
> And that may be Stalins true curse.
> 
> How Stalin Fooled the World and Why It Matters Today





Maybe, maybe in 1942 while we were recruiting an army to go save Europe from the Germans again the internal propaganda had a few folks fooled or downplayed the severity of Stalin's evil.

None the less, Stalin benefitted from having Hitler make him not the biggest monster of the century if that is an accomplishment.


----------



## High_Gravity

mememe said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Stalin likely could not have defended Moscow without American help. At the time the US began to supply trucks Stalin was on the point of being overthrown by his own people, and the Soviets were facing the potential loss of Moscow, Stalingrad and Leningrad. More importantly, they were facing the loss of Baku's oil fields, which were only saved as it was by a strategic error on Hitler's part.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brilliant!
> 
> Absolutely brilliant!
> 
> Now I understand why Americans mess up everything they touch: they live on their own planet with no connection to the outside world!
Click to expand...


And yet you can't keep talking about us you dumb whore.


----------



## Spoonman

rightwinger said:


> What was the US bargaining position in these negotiations?
> 
> The USSR had already won the battles of Stalingrad and Kursk. They already had a massive Army on the continent and were moving westward
> 
> We had not even invaded Normandy yet



but they didn't have the bomb


----------



## High_Gravity

Stalin was a joke.


----------



## rightwinger

Spoonman said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> What was the US bargaining position in these negotiations?
> 
> The USSR had already won the battles of Stalingrad and Kursk. They already had a massive Army on the continent and were moving westward
> 
> We had not even invaded Normandy yet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but they didn't have the bomb
Click to expand...


We didn't either and had no idea whether it would work


----------



## Vandalshandle

rightwinger said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> What was the US bargaining position in these negotiations?
> 
> The USSR had already won the battles of Stalingrad and Kursk. They already had a massive Army on the continent and were moving westward
> 
> We had not even invaded Normandy yet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but they didn't have the bomb
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We didn't either and had no idea whether it would work
Click to expand...


There is no way in hell that this country would have used a nuclear bomb against the Soviets in Europe. The world would never have forgiven us, and we would have been hated and despised for all time by all Western nations.


----------



## High_Gravity

mememe said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> dumb whore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't have much luck with women, do you? And what you do get are dumb whores?
Click to expand...


No, you are just a dumb whore. You are dismissed.


----------



## Flopper

whitehall said:


> It's wasn't hard to fool the fledgling CIA back in the 40's and 50's. As a matter of fact it was never hard to fool the CIA. FDR used to call Stalin "uncle Joe" and share jokes with him about Churchill. FDR can be excused for his conduct because he was a tired old and possibly brain damaged corpse that democrats propped up to run for a 4th term. Truman understood Stalin's threat but the mainstream media was in love with communism and socialism as they are today.


I wouldn't say the news media was in love with communism during Truman's term in office.  The iron curtain, the Berlin blockade, the communist takeover of Manchuria and North Korea, theft of atomic secrets, the Korean war and a steady dose anti-Soviet propaganda filled the newspapers and airways in the late 40's and fifties.  After the 1949 successful atomic bomb tests by the Soviets, American saw a communist behind every bush.  In later years, it was revealed that 1 out of every 3 card carrying communist were  either FBI agents or informants.  I remember the duck and cover drills in schools in the early 50's and public service civil defense ads.  The media was certainly not pro-communist during this period.


----------



## Vandalshandle

Truman was blamed for China going Communist, which is why he did not even bother to run in 1952, having no chance for anything but an embarressing landslide against him.


----------



## Ringel05

mememe said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are the one who brought it up, not me.
> 
> As for the knowledge that the Germans would attack yes, everyone knew *but Stalin refused to believe it.  *
> 
> Afterwards what makes you think Stalin would trust Japan not to violate their non-aggression pact?
> 
> I swear, .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YOU stated that the leadership of the Soviet Union did not know whether or not Japan will attack until 1942!* It can mean only one thing, that in your opinion the leadership of the USSR was unaware of the pact it signed with Japan!
> *
> 
> Says who?! Your "historians"?!
> 
> Of course Japan was under close attention; but it signed a pact AFTER it was defeated, twice!
> 
> You better swear, than go into historical ramblings...
Click to expand...


Dayamn do you know how to infer your myopic projections!!  Id rather argue with a brick, it would look like a genius compared to you.


----------



## Ringel05

mememe said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mememe said:
> 
> 
> 
> It gets better and better!
> 
> Please, do tell me where did USSR fight Japanese after 13 of April 1941?!
> I would love to know!
> 
> 
> 
> On August 9, 1945, t
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For the USSR the war was over on the *9-th of MAY* 1945.
> 
> In August the Soviet Union was ready to fulfil its obligation before its former allies regarding Japan, that's all.
Click to expand...


Wow, you're a former member of the Sovetskoye informatsionnoye byuro, aren't you......


----------



## Flopper

Vandalshandle said:


> Truman was blamed for China going Communist, which is why he did not even bother to run in 1952, having no chance for anything but an embarressing landslide against him.


Truman in his second term was blamed with at lot of stuff, firing of MacArthur, Scandals and controversies, growth of Soviet influence, and the coal strikes.  He left office as one of our most unpopular presidents but today he's thought of as one our best by historians.

Privately, several years earlier he had written - but not released - a letter announcing that he would not be a candidate in 1952. He was 68 years old, had served nearly eight years as president, and his wife certainly favoried a return to Independence, Missouri. Truman also undoubtedly recognized that it would be difficult if not impossible to win re-election. He may have considered his chances strong against Ohio Senator Robert Taft, but would have been a severe underdog against Dwight Eisenhower. Because of this, in the spring of 1952, Truman announced that he would not be a candidate for re-election. 

Why didn't Truman run for re-election in 1952


----------



## Vandalshandle

President Truman was my hero. I consider him one of the top 5 presidents.


----------



## American_Jihad

Saigon said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "American" Left loves Uncles Joe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's one of the reasons for the thread, to flush them out. I also wanted to show saigon the journalist from hellstinky how the leftist ilk on this forum defend the great murdering beast, stinky I hope this thread proved my point...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It proved the point alright -  NOT A SINGLE POSTER defended Stalin. Not one.
> 
> An honest poster would admit that and apologise.
Click to expand...


They make excuses for the stinking beast stalin, NO apology. What I will do is give you more anti mao, stalin, lenin, trotsky, marx, etc... 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi1zg2NOCn8]Obama Cabinet Member Anita Dunn: Mao Tse Tung "Favorite Philosopher"; Truth is subjective - YouTube[/ame]

white house mao ornament - Google Search

Capitalism vs Socialism - Google Search

did communism ever work - Google Search

...


----------



## American_Jihad

Ringel05 said:


> mememe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> On August 9, 1945, t
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the USSR the war was over on the *9-th of MAY* 1945.
> 
> In August the Soviet Union was ready to fulfil its obligation before its former allies regarding Japan, that's all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow, you're a former member of the Sovetskoye informatsionnoye byuro, aren't you......
Click to expand...


She sounds like Baghdad Bob...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s27Oq5ot0ZI]Mohammed Saïd al-Sahaf - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Ringel05

mememe said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mememe said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the USSR the war was over on the *9-th of MAY* 1945.
> 
> In August the Soviet Union was ready to fulfil its obligation before its former allies regarding Japan, that's all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you're a former member of the Sovetskoye informatsionnoye byuro, aren't you......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is it that you did not like about the statement that for the USSR the war ended on the 9-th of May 1945?
Click to expand...




> Aug 8, 1945:
> Soviets declare war on Japan; invade Manchuria




Soviets declare war on Japan; invade Manchuria ? History.com This Day in History ? 8/8/1945

The war in Europe was over, that was all and you have your Soviet date wrong for the end of the war in Europe.   It wasn't May 8th. 
Try again tovarich.


----------



## Ringel05

mememe said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Soviets declare war on Japan; invade Manchuria ?
> The war in Europe was over,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Listen you, twat, the USSR DID NOT PARTAKE in your Western "WW2" , the Soviet people fought The GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR (!!!!!!!). And that war for them ended on the 9-s of MAY 1945.
> 
> After that date the USSR was simply ready to fulfil its obligations to its former allies.
> 
> For the Soviet Union the war was over on the 9-s of MAY 1945 -- try to remember.
Click to expand...


Well you finally got the date (May 9th) correct.  At least that's a step in the right direction.   As for the rest of your Soviet "interpretation" (sounds better than propaganda, don't it.........) and Soviet name for it's war against Germany doesn't change the fact that the USSR was involved in the "western war" due to it's alliance to the western powers.  Anything else is simply a denial of historical reality.
But don't worry, there's probably a couple of clueless morons here gullible enough to buy into the propagandist interpretation you're selling...... I ain't one of them.


----------



## Ringel05

mememe said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well you finally got the date (May 9th) correct.
> 
> As for the rest of your Soviet "interpretation"
> 
> and Soviet name for it's war against Germany doesn't change the fact that the USSR was involved in the "western war"
> 
> I ain't one of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You, stupid lying fuck, point me at my post where I claimed the date other than 9-s of May 1945!
> 
> It's not Soviet "interpretation". It's HISTORY that is not taught to you in US.
> 
> It's not "the name". It's the fact that the Soviet people did not take part in a war of Western aggression of one Western state against the other; and entered the fight only after being attacked! I don't expect you to understand the difference since all you Americans do is attack other nations while claiming you are "defending" yourselves.
> 
> I know. You are American -- that says it all.
Click to expand...

I can't point it out now tovarich, you edited the date after you fucked up, typical Soviet obfuscation.  Yeah, your Soviet version of history is OOOOOHHHHH so not propagandized............  
I mean, really.  You might have bought into it or are simply trying to continue the propagation of Soviet propaganda but that doesn't mean anyone with an iota of real historical knowledge is falling for it.  
Keep it up tovarich!  Haven't laughed this hard in quite a while.   BTW, if you want to see the personification of pathetic loser, find a mirror......... if you can even stand the reflected image........


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

We should have listened to Patton and allowed him to finish the Soviets off.  Huge mistake.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

For that matter we should have listened to his 1st cousin, Congressman Larry McDonald, a Democrat who told the world Communists within the CFR and TRI LAT had infiltrated our political system and the time for NGO's to be rooted out was then and there.  Again, no one listened.  - Jeremiah


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

mememe said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't point it out now tovarich, you edited the date after you fucked up,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lying fuck, I did not edit this date because i grew up with it.
> 
> But that's typical American: lying, bullshitting, stupid and obnoxious.
Click to expand...


Watch your mouth.  You sound just like Karl Marx with that filth pouring out of you.  - J.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

The filth the Soviets have poured out upon this world will never be matched by anyone.  You people won the title for parasites feeding off the efforts of others, mass murderers, immoral to the 9th degree, imbecils would not begin to explain the level of your incompetency.  Take your communist hating self back on over there and leave if you don't like it here.   No one here will miss you.  Bye, now. 

-Jeremiah


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

...........and your Hockey team got its ass kicked by USA Hockey team Lake Placid Olympics 1980.  Commie pigs couldn't handle it and paid off liberal marxists in charge at colleges - universities to create dream teams - ensuring they would not be so utterly humiliated before the world again.  You people cannot win without lies, deception, cheating others.  It is just that simple.  - Jeremiah


----------



## High_Gravity

mememe is such a dumb jealous whore.


----------



## yidnar

if Stalin was an American citizen today he would have voted for Obama .


----------



## yidnar

mememe said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...........and your Hockey team got its ass kicked by USA Hockey team Lake Placid Olympics 1980.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Congratulations! The second victory in American history, the first one was against Granada.
Click to expand...

if it were not for the US you would be speaking German !!


----------



## yidnar

mememe said:


> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mememe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Congratulations! The second victory in American history, the first one was against Granada.
> 
> 
> 
> if it were not for the US you would be speaking German !!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL!!!
> Is that what they teach you at schools?! LOL!
> 
> 8 out of 10 Germans died on the EASTERN front!
> Also the USSR defeated Romanians, Hungarians and made sure Bulgaria did not do any sudden moves.
> 
> And who knows how long Hitler would've lasted if not for US help with finances and strategic materials all the way into 1944.
Click to expand...

the Russian winter stopped Hitler from taking Moscow !! just because Hitler failed once do you honestly believe he would not have regrouped resupplied and attacked again with a stronger force and better tactics if he was not prevented from doing so by the US ??? hell they were well on their way to making the first nuclear bomb !!


----------



## Ringel05

mememe said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't point it out now tovarich, you edited the date after you fucked up,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lying fuck, I did not edit this date because i grew up with it.
> 
> But that's typical American: lying, bullshitting, stupid and obnoxious.
Click to expand...


Yeah..... right....... Funny how when I responded yesterday the date you had was the 8th........ Now it's not....... Keep up the denial and obfuscation there Vyacheslav........


----------



## Ringel05

mememe said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mememe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lying fuck, I did not edit this date because i grew up with it.
> 
> But that's typical American: lying, bullshitting, stupid and obnoxious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah..... right....... Funny :
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> why do you bother posting?...
Click to expand...


You should really be asking yourself that.... No, really........ 

I think it's time to petition the board to change your nic to something more appropriate.  I was thinking Peepeepee........


----------



## Ringel05

mememe said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking Peepeepee........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No more questions.
Click to expand...


You had questions........????!!!!!    I mean, really tovarich, is that what you're calling your "setups"........????? 
 

Okay, relax........ catch my breath...... 



Oh, oh, oh........


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Saigon said:


> The most leftward of these is to see Stalin as a victim of German and American imperialism who struggled to maintain the peace in the face of aggressive expansionistic efforts by Nazi Germany and the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> By all means back up this claim with some links or examples - but you won't find much.
> 
> Stalin is almost universally regarded by left and right as a dictator, a tryant and a mad man. The fact that he worked with the Alies to defeat Hitler does not change that.
Click to expand...


You'll actually find that Stalin is a beloved figure in Russia to this day.


----------



## Ringel05

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The most leftward of these is to see Stalin as a victim of German and American imperialism who struggled to maintain the peace in the face of aggressive expansionistic efforts by Nazi Germany and the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> By all means back up this claim with some links or examples - but you won't find much.
> 
> Stalin is almost universally regarded by left and right as a dictator, a tryant and a mad man. The fact that he worked with the Alies to defeat Hitler does not change that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You'll actually find that Stalin is a beloved figure in Russia to this day.
Click to expand...


There are many reasons for that.  One is Russians love strong leaders, no matter how brutal their methods.  Stalin did take a mostly agrarian society and transform it into a modern industrial giant for it's time, millions suffered and died but he did it in what might be considered record time.  
One other, more modern reason is Russia is partially controlled by the Mafiya which is firmly imbedded in the government, less stability for average individuals than was found under the Soviet system.  People generally pine for old times if they feel the new times are worse and will often "romanticize" the past.    
I'm pretty sure Peepeepee will have a conniption over this.  Good.


----------



## American_Jihad

&#1043;&#1083;&#1091;&#1087;&#1099;&#1081; &#1089;&#1090;&#1072;&#1088;&#1099;&#1081; &#1082;&#1086;&#1079;&#1077;&#1083;, &#1095;&#1090;&#1086; &#1087;&#1091;&#1090;&#1100; &#1085;&#1072; &#1079;&#1072;&#1087;&#1072;&#1076;
translation - Silly old goat that way west

*Stalin&#8217;s Curse: Battling for Communism in War and Cold War*​ 
*This well researched book portrays Stalin as a psychopath with a deep and abiding commitment to spreading communism across the globe.*

By Jordan Michael Smith, Contributing Writer / March 26, 2013 

For much of the second half of the 20th century in the United States, Republican politicians had an advantage on the vital issue of national security. That electoral edge began in large part in February 1945. That was the month of the Yalta Conference, the last summit of World War II at which all the Western allies participated. It was at that meeting, Republicans charged, that Democratic president Franklin Roosevelt ceded control of Eastern Europe to the Soviet Union.

Florida State University historian Robert Gellately repeats this myth in his well-researched but flawed new book Stalin&#8217;s Curse. Here, Gellately argues that Soviet leader Joseph Stalin was impervious to diplomacy at Yalta or anywhere else. &#8220;Marxist-Leninist ideology as interpreted by Stalin drove the men at the top,&#8221; he writes. &#8220;The Soviets invariably took Roosevelt&#8217;s efforts to be friendly or accommodating as demonstrations of weakness.&#8221;

Gellatedly is the author of several books on Nazi Germany and one on the era of Lenin, Stalin, and Hitler. His grasp of the literature is tremendous, especially his expertise with the Soviet archives. I know of only two or three other books that can rival "Stalin's Curse" in terms of its penetrating use of Russian sources.

Karl Marx: 10 quotes on his birthday

...

Stalin?s Curse: Battling for Communism in War and Cold War - CSMonitor.com


----------



## Ringel05

American_Jihad said:


> &#1043;&#1083;&#1091;&#1087;&#1099;&#1081; &#1089;&#1090;&#1072;&#1088;&#1099;&#1081; &#1082;&#1086;&#1079;&#1077;&#1083;, &#1095;&#1090;&#1086; &#1087;&#1091;&#1090;&#1100; &#1085;&#1072; &#1079;&#1072;&#1087;&#1072;&#1076;
> 
> *Stalin&#8217;s Curse: Battling for Communism in War and Cold War*​
> This well researched book portrays Stalin as a psychopath with a deep and abiding commitment to spreading communism across the globe.
> 
> By Jordan Michael Smith, Contributing Writer / March 26, 2013
> 
> For much of the second half of the 20th century in the United States, Republican politicians had an advantage on the vital issue of national security. That electoral edge began in large part in February 1945. That was the month of the Yalta Conference, the last summit of World War II at which all the Western allies participated. It was at that meeting, Republicans charged, that Democratic president Franklin Roosevelt ceded control of Eastern Europe to the Soviet Union.
> 
> Florida State University historian Robert Gellately repeats this myth in his well-researched but flawed new book Stalin&#8217;s Curse. Here, Gellately argues that Soviet leader Joseph Stalin was impervious to diplomacy at Yalta or anywhere else. &#8220;Marxist-Leninist ideology as interpreted by Stalin drove the men at the top,&#8221; he writes. &#8220;The Soviets invariably took Roosevelt&#8217;s efforts to be friendly or accommodating as demonstrations of weakness.&#8221;
> 
> Gellatedly is the author of several books on Nazi Germany and one on the era of Lenin, Stalin, and Hitler. His grasp of the literature is tremendous, especially his expertise with the Soviet archives. I know of only two or three other books that can rival "Stalin's Curse" in terms of its penetrating use of Russian sources.
> 
> Karl Marx: 10 quotes on his birthday
> 
> ...
> 
> Stalin?s Curse: Battling for Communism in War and Cold War - CSMonitor.com



I'll have to read that and he better have some serious compelling evidence because every single book I've read concerning the lead up to WWII and it's aftermath specifically shows Stalin was more concerned with consolidating and protecting his borders which is why he took Eastern Europe at the end of the war, as a buffer against the west.  It was the advent of the cold war and our policy of containment that gave rise to Soviet style expansion.


----------



## Unkotare

mememe said:


> Of course NORMAL people like a strong leader! Why else would you choose someone to LEAD the society?!.






How much do you pay the homeless glue-sniffers to dress up like Stalin and abuse you intimately? You are not "normal," you know.


----------



## High_Gravity

Ringel05 said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> By all means back up this claim with some links or examples - but you won't find much.
> 
> Stalin is almost universally regarded by left and right as a dictator, a tryant and a mad man. The fact that he worked with the Alies to defeat Hitler does not change that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll actually find that Stalin is a beloved figure in Russia to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are many reasons for that.  One is Russians love strong leaders, no matter how brutal their methods.  Stalin did take a mostly agrarian society and transform it into a modern industrial giant for it's time, millions suffered and died but he did it in what might be considered record time.
> One other, more modern reason is Russia is partially controlled by the Mafiya which is firmly imbedded in the government, less stability for average individuals than was found under the Soviet system.  People generally pine for old times if they feel the new times are worse and will often "romanticize" the past.
> I'm pretty sure Peepeepee will have a conniption over this.  Good.
Click to expand...


Thats very true, if Saddam Hussein and Pol Pot were born in Russia they would be looked upon as heroes and good men.


----------



## Unkotare

High_Gravity said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> You'll actually find that Stalin is a beloved figure in Russia to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are many reasons for that.  One is Russians love strong leaders, no matter how brutal their methods.  Stalin did take a mostly agrarian society and transform it into a modern industrial giant for it's time, millions suffered and died but he did it in what might be considered record time.
> One other, more modern reason is Russia is partially controlled by the Mafiya which is firmly imbedded in the government, less stability for average individuals than was found under the Soviet system.  People generally pine for old times if they feel the new times are worse and will often "romanticize" the past.
> I'm pretty sure Peepeepee will have a conniption over this.  Good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thats very true, if Saddam Hussein and Pol Pot were born in Russia they would be looked upon as heroes and good men.
Click to expand...



And mememe would have literally been begging them to hump her violently.


----------



## High_Gravity

Unkotare said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are many reasons for that.  One is Russians love strong leaders, no matter how brutal their methods.  Stalin did take a mostly agrarian society and transform it into a modern industrial giant for it's time, millions suffered and died but he did it in what might be considered record time.
> One other, more modern reason is Russia is partially controlled by the Mafiya which is firmly imbedded in the government, less stability for average individuals than was found under the Soviet system.  People generally pine for old times if they feel the new times are worse and will often "romanticize" the past.
> I'm pretty sure Peepeepee will have a conniption over this.  Good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats very true, if Saddam Hussein and Pol Pot were born in Russia they would be looked upon as heroes and good men.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And mememe would have literally been begging them to hump her violently.
Click to expand...


She would be on her chubby knees sucking their cocks.


----------



## blackcherry

High_Gravity said:


> [
> She would be on her chubby knees sucking their cocks.



Stupid little boy .


----------



## Unkotare

blackcherry said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> She would be on her chubby knees sucking their cocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid little boy .
Click to expand...




Yeah, maybe she would have given their genitalia little nicknames like that. Not too late for _you_ to run out and buy your own Stalin costume too, you know...


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Ringel05 said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> By all means back up this claim with some links or examples - but you won't find much.
> 
> Stalin is almost universally regarded by left and right as a dictator, a tryant and a mad man. The fact that he worked with the Alies to defeat Hitler does not change that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll actually find that Stalin is a beloved figure in Russia to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are many reasons for that.  One is Russians love strong leaders, no matter how brutal their methods.  Stalin did take a mostly agrarian society and transform it into a modern industrial giant for it's time, millions suffered and died but he did it in what might be considered record time.
> One other, more modern reason is Russia is partially controlled by the Mafiya which is firmly imbedded in the government, less stability for average individuals than was found under the Soviet system.  People generally pine for old times if they feel the new times are worse and will often "romanticize" the past.
> I'm pretty sure Peepeepee will have a conniption over this.  Good.
Click to expand...


That's an interesting theory, but misleading. When I say people love Stalin; that's true. But that's not to say he isnt' a polarizing figure. About half the people love him and half the people hate him. I don't remember the exact split; but it was significant. And by love and hate, I really mean love and hate - like the Jesus to Hitler scale. 

But back in the day, almost everyone loved Stalin; mainly because they were kept in the dark about anything bad he did and were brainwashed to see him as a great leader.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Brainwashed was the operative word in that last line.  Stalin was a mass murderer.   

 Thanks.  - Jeremiah


----------



## irosie91

Jeremiah said:


> Brainwashed was the operative word in that last line.  Stalin was a mass murderer.
> 
> Thanks.  - Jeremiah



he was a  UTOPIAN---of the totalitarian type-----everyone is supposed to either 
join or die------it you do not JOIN----you ----GtoH     you g  t' o' h   
cooperate  and not be a  KULAK aka KAFFIR


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Ironic that we're talking about Stalin while we have a leader who is trying to fill our skies with assassins with the help of an effectively state ran media.


----------



## Ringel05

mememe said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are many reasons for that.  One is Russians love strong leaders, no matter how brutal their methods.
> 
> Stalin did take a mostly agrarian society and transform it into a modern industrial giant for it's time,
> 
> millions suffered and died
> 
> One other, more modern reason is Russia is partially controlled by the Mafiya which is firmly imbedded in the government, less stability for average individuals than was found under the Soviet system.
> 
> People generally pine for old times if they feel the new times are worse and will often "romanticize" the past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just Russians?
> Are you aware that the Russian Empire as well as the Soviet Union was populated by over 100 ethnicities?!
> Of course NORMAL people like a strong leader! Why else would you choose someone to LEAD the society?! Look where your poofters led you!
> 
> Correct! Also he transformed it into a country where no matter how humble was your background, you could become anything due to your honest work and personal tallents; he transformed it into a country that won the war against Nazism and Fascism. And re-shaped the world.
> 
> I provided this forum with official statistics on numerous occasions, no one was able to show me these "suffering and dead millions". Isn't it time you start operating factual figures instead of the ones borrowed from a fictional novel of a very mediocre writer?
> 
> Correct again! The more the elites say that Stalin achieved a high developed society by sacrificing the "elite of the nation", the more people come to a conclusion that the elite must be sacrificed in order for the state to develop.
> 
> People pine for the times of social justice, strict law equal for all, high economic development, independence, and above all -- the idea that united the nation making it worth living for. Current ideology of a full belly and personal enrichment does not inspire.
Click to expand...


Here's mostly just the Ukraine...... Estimated 7 million died. 
The History Place - Genocide in the 20th Century: Stalin's Forced Famine 1932-33

Reference Stalin's purges, et al:

Soviet Union, Stalin's regime (1924-53): 20,000,000

Twentieth Century Atlas - Death Tolls

Russian Revolution Project timeline | Timetoast timelines

Since they don't agree with your "vision" of the past I know you will deny and deflect but I expect no less.

Oh, and when I indicated Russians love strong leaders I was referring to two things, consolidating the ethnic groups under one group for ease of discussion and I was equating the concept of strong as Machiavellian.


----------



## Ringel05

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> You'll actually find that Stalin is a beloved figure in Russia to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are many reasons for that.  One is Russians love strong leaders, no matter how brutal their methods.  Stalin did take a mostly agrarian society and transform it into a modern industrial giant for it's time, millions suffered and died but he did it in what might be considered record time.
> One other, more modern reason is Russia is partially controlled by the Mafiya which is firmly imbedded in the government, less stability for average individuals than was found under the Soviet system.  People generally pine for old times if they feel the new times are worse and will often "romanticize" the past.
> I'm pretty sure Peepeepee will have a conniption over this.  Good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's an interesting theory, but misleading. When I say people love Stalin; that's true. But that's not to say he isnt' a polarizing figure. About half the people love him and half the people hate him. I don't remember the exact split; but it was significant. And by love and hate, I really mean love and hate - like the Jesus to Hitler scale.
> 
> But back in the day, almost everyone loved Stalin; mainly because they were kept in the dark about anything bad he did and were brainwashed to see him as a great leader.
Click to expand...


That's only one aspect, and while I was trying to be generally inclusive, citing mainly known human nature patterns, I guess I wasn't as clear.  We were talking about those that love him, not those that do not.


----------



## American_Jihad

High_Gravity said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> You'll actually find that Stalin is a beloved figure in Russia to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are many reasons for that.  One is Russians love strong leaders, no matter how brutal their methods.  Stalin did take a mostly agrarian society and transform it into a modern industrial giant for it's time, millions suffered and died but he did it in what might be considered record time.
> One other, more modern reason is Russia is partially controlled by the Mafiya which is firmly imbedded in the government, less stability for average individuals than was found under the Soviet system.  People generally pine for old times if they feel the new times are worse and will often "romanticize" the past.
> I'm pretty sure Peepeepee will have a conniption over this.  Good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thats very true, if Saddam Hussein and Pol Pot were born in Russia they would be looked upon as heroes and good men.
Click to expand...







Gnome Chumpsky​...

Anti-Semitism  

Chomsky has supported controversial author Norman Finkelstein, author of The Holocaust Industry, who has argued that claims of anti-Semitism are used to silence critics of Israel and that the Holocaust is exploited by some Jewish institutions for their own gain.[14] Noam Chomsky has also supported the right of Holocaust deniers, among them the notorious Robert Faurisson, to express their views. Chomsky has claimed he sees this as a free-speech issue and does not himself support Holocaust deniers.[15] 

It should be noted that both Finkelstein and Chomsky are from Jewish-American backgrounds [16][17], and that both Chomsky's parents were devout and involved in Jewish scholarship. It is unclear whether Chomsky still practices Judaism. 

Controversies
1.Chomsky denied the Cambodian Genocide, claiming that the killing had been inflated "by a factor of 100."[18][19] He further asserted that the (in reality) 2 to 3 million Cambodians slaughtered by the Khmer Rouge from 1975 to 1978 were morally comparable to Nazi collaborators during WW2, and that *Pol Pot's *Cambodia was "comparable to France after liberation [from the Nazis]."[20] 

2.Chomsky recently (1995) claimed, in the wake of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, that the death toll in Cambodia may have been inflated "by a factor of a thousand."[21] Since he was responding to an estimate of two million dead, his words would imply that the real toll was on the order of two thousand. (Note: Investigators have uncovered and examined the remains of 1,386,734 Cambodians found in mass graves near Khmer Rouge execution centers whose cause of death has been determined by the
investigators to have been virtually exclusively execution by the former Khmer Rouge regime.[22][23][24] Because no more than roughly half of those who died during the Khmer Rouge years were executed (the rest having died from other causes like state-created famine, the deliberate withholding of basic necessities by the state, the refusal by the state to allow foreign aid, the abolishing of medicine and hospitals by the state, systematic overwork and slave labor by the state, and normal mortality), the Documentation Center of Cambodia estimates that the former regime killed or otherwise caused the unnecessary deaths of, between 2 and 2.5 million Cambodians (with 2.5 to 3 million dying and half a million of these representing normal mortality for the period).[25] A UN investigation reported 2-3 million dead, while UNICEF *estimated 3 million dead*.[26] Even the Khmer Rouge acknowledged that 2 million had been killedthough they attributed those deaths to a subsequent Vietnamese invasion. 
...
Noam Chomsky - Conservapedia


----------



## zonly1

High_Gravity said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thats very true, if Saddam Hussein and Pol Pot were born in Russia they would be looked upon as heroes and good men.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And mememe would have literally been begging them to hump her violently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She would be on her chubby knees sucking their cocks.
Click to expand...


Seems you been practicing in your corner for more attention, goo gobbler.


----------



## Ringel05

mememe said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's mostly just the Ukraine...... Estimated 7 million died.
> 
> 
> Reference Stalin's purges, et al:
> Soviet Union, Stalin's regime (1924-53): 20,000,000
> 
> 
> Oh, and when I indicated Russians love strong leaders I was referring to two things, consolidating the ethnic groups under one group for ease of discussion and I was equating the concept of strong as Machiavellian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Don't forget to add "estimated by Dr Goebbelse". Since he was the prime source of US "knowledge" about famine in Ukraine, to the point that most Americans still don't know that the famine was not only in Ukraine, but in other regions of the Soviet Union. Anyway, here is the prime source of Western and American "historians":
> http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...MPNntnaguIZz_k37H2qZnmA&bvm=bv.44342787,d.ZWU
> 
> Oh, almost forgot, in Ukraine itself only the Western regions are hot on supporting this myth about "Holodomor", but the interesting part about it is that Western Ukraine was part of POLAND at the time of famine!
> 
> And it brings us to the question everyone avoid answering:
> if Stalin was to blame for famine in Ukraine, whom do you blame for 1930-s famine in Poland, Hungary, Slovakia, Romania, Germany, US and UK?
> 
> 2. The prime source of this number is Solzhenitsyn -- a FICTIONAL WRITER. Meanwhile, the official statistics for "purges" (which is 1937, and not 1924-1953!) stand as follows:
> 1937 the whole system of GULAG contained 1.196.369 people. Out of that number 87% were "ordinary" criminals. The remaining %% were there for commiting counter-revolutionary crimes: acts of terrorism, sabotage, anti-Soviet agitation, treason.
> 
> Care to find "20 million"?
> 
> But if you want to look at broader statistics: Between 1921 (before the USSR was formed! before the civil war was over!) and 1964 (10 years after Stalin's death!) for counter-revolutionary crimes (acts of terrorism, sabotage, anti-Soviet agitation, treason) were sentenced to death 642 980 people!!!!!
> 
> Care to point me in the direction of your "20 million"?
> 
> 3. You are a fucking idiot! People who lived in the USSR did not need any "consolidation under one ethnic group", they were already consolidated by living in the Russian Empire!
> And just to broaden your horizons, in the USSR the power was shared between ALL ethnicities, just have a look at the names of government and party officials.
Click to expand...


Right on cue.......... 

Noooooo, the soviet never lied, nooooo, the soviet is pure in their intentions and only want people to know the truth as they see it (or else).............



And not surprising you completely missed what I was saying about consolidating the peoples (again) for ease of discussion........  Not that I expect you to even fathom the concept.

BTW who's typing this for you?  You haven't shown the mental acuity to construct coherent thoughts into useful communication strands.  I know!  Putin is doing this.  Hi Putin!  Have you decided to reopen the gulags yet?  Oh I forgot, two thirds of your "buddies" are Mafiya......... No, no gulags, better to just kill people outright........ 
Ahh, the good old days of the soviet are still with us...... with a twist...... now instead of insane criminal ideologues it's insane criminals who are in control.


----------



## Ringel05

mememe said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right on cue..........
> 
> Noooooo,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, you don't have anything to rebut the facts about US borrowing propaganda clichés about "Holodomor" from Nazis and "........ millions" from a fictional writer as US "historian's" prime sources.
> 
> 
> And now, ANSWER MY QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!
> *If, in your opinion, Stalin is to blame for the famine in the USSR, who is to blame for 1930-s famine in Poland, Hungary, Slovakia, Romania, Germany, UK and US?*
Click to expand...


Ahhhhh, poor propagandist won't even look at the evidence already posted..... Yup there ol Peepeepee, I posted the evidence that Stalin TOOK the grain from the Ukraine, leaving them with nothing.   But that comes from decadent imperialist American (and Western) historians spreading lies about the great glorious God of the Soviet Body eternal, *Comrade Stalin!*
All bow down and worship his greatness!  Kiss his feet (or else Beriya whill "help" you do it..........). 
I know it's hard to deal with, but the reality is Stalin was a paranoid mass murderer, equal to or worse than Hitler....... Sorry to bust you bubble.


----------



## High_Gravity

Stalin was a faggot and mememe is a slag sucking whore, case closed.


----------



## Ringel05

mememe said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I posted the evidence that Stalin TOOK the grain from the Ukraine,
> 
> Ahhhhh,
> 
> poor propagandist
> 
> Peepeepee,
> 
> 
> Kiss his feet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Stalin" did NOT take anything. The STATE reqired CENTRALISED BANK of grain. Thanks to that bank, the USSR never experienced famine again. As soon as the scale of the famine became known, Ukraine received all help it needed in order to stop the spread of famine into the following year. Unlike Poland, Hungary, Romania, US and UK where famine was rife all into 1939!
> 
> Yes, Ukraine should not have given as much grain as it did, for that the government of Ukrainian SSR was tried and some went to prisons and labour camps making up the numbers of what you call "innocent victims of Stalin's oppression".
> 
> And now, answer the question you so desperately avoid:
> *If, in your opinion, Stalin is to blame for the famine in the USSR, who is to blame for 1930-s famine in Poland, Hungary, Slovakia, Romania, Germany, UK and US?*
Click to expand...


Yeah the Ukraine government.......... 

As for your repeated "question"...... Please tell me you're not trying to compare the responsible governments in those countries to the brutal dictatorship of Stalin.  Oh wait, I forgot, Stalin was a saint and had no control over what his people and puppet governments did, especially to his and Lenin,s old enemies, the Ukrainian peoples and those they supported....... 

Oh and I'm sure Stalin and/or his predecessor made scapegoats of some Stalin appointed leaders of the Ukraine to distance themselves from what they themselves had done.


----------



## Ringel05

mememe said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah the Ukraine government..........
> 
> As for your repeated "question"...... Please tell me you're not trying to compare the responsible governments in those countries to the brutal dictatorship of Stalin.  Oh wait, I forgot, Stalin was a saint and had no control over what his people and puppet governments did, especially to his and Lenin,s old enemies, the Ukrainian peoples and those they supported.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, you did not know that each of the republics had its own government?! Well... that's American edumacation for you -- beyond laughable!
> 
> I will repeat my question: *who is to blame for 1930-s famine in Poland, Hungary, Slovakia, Romania, Germany, UK and US?*
> Answer it, please!
Click to expand...


I answered it.  You didn't like the answer.
You were the one who claimed the Ukraine had it's own government under Stalin....... Having problems with short term memory?  It wouldn't surprise me considering your other problems.


----------



## rdean

How Stalin Fooled the World and Why It Matters Today

It can't be that hard if Bush did it.


----------



## Ringel05

mememe said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You were the one who claimed the Ukraine had it's own government under Stalin....... .
> 
> I answered it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know that I claimed that Ukrainian SSR had its own government, like all other Soviet republics! You did not know that?! That says a lot about American education!
> That's exactly what I said: "I'm sorry, *you did not know that each of the republics had its own governmen*t?! Well... that's American edumacation for you -- beyond laughable!" -- do you have difficulties with reading or with understanding?
> 
> 
> No, you did not answer! You went into some verbal diarrhea.
> *NAME A PERSON (or people) WHOM YOU BLAME FOR THE FAMINE IN POLAND, ROMANIA, GERMANY, HUNGARY, SLOVAKIA, UK and US!!!!*
Click to expand...


Uuuummmm, I acknowledged that the Soviet Republics (yeah, interesting choice of word) had governments, approved of or appointed by Stalin so yeah, knumb knuts, I knew that.
I see you still don't like my answer.  Life's a bitch and it's appears, so are you...... 
It must be sickening being you.  How do you do it?


----------



## Ringel05

mememe said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uuuummmm, I acknowledged that the Soviet Republics (yeah, interesting choice of word) had governments, approved of or appointed by Stalin so yeah, knumb knuts, I knew that.
> 
> I see you still don't like my answer.  Life's a bitch and it's appears, so are you......
> It must be sickening being you.  How do you do it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You did not know about that! And after you finally Googled it, you try to worm your way out of the point in question:
> 
> *NAME A PERSON (or people) WHOM YOU BLAME FOR THE FAMINE IN POLAND, ROMANIA, GERMANY, HUNGARY, SLOVAKIA, UK and US!!!!*
> 
> Just give me a name/names!
Click to expand...


Yeah, I googled it.......  

I'll give one name, the failed poster Peepeepee.........
Dayamn are you fun!!


----------



## rdean

rdean said:


> How Stalin Fooled the World and Why It Matters Today
> 
> It can't be that hard if Bush did it.



And Reagan before him.


----------



## Ringel05

mememe said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll give one name, the failed poster Peepeepee.........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's Americans in all their glory: as soon as they are asked a question that requires a bit of THINKING instead of mumbling some slogan drummed into their heads by US propaganda machine, their lonely brain cell goes into a melt-down producing unintelligible "peee".
> 
> 
> 
> Yet another demonstration as to why Americans are thought of as a nation of idiots.
Click to expand...


Funny though how you're the only one who thinks everyone else but me here is buying your bull shit...... 

Keep patting yourself on the back with your "American" deflections and obvious obfuscations........ BTW, you're not that good at it......... Practice, more practice........


----------



## Ringel05

rdean said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> How Stalin Fooled the World and Why It Matters Today
> 
> It can't be that hard if Bush did it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Reagan before him.
Click to expand...


Taking your cues from TM?  Why do I ask, of course you are.......


----------



## zonly1

High_Gravity said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thats very true, if Saddam Hussein and Pol Pot were born in Russia they would be looked upon as heroes and good men.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And mememe would have literally been begging them to hump her violently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She would be on her chubby knees sucking their cocks.
Click to expand...


so you like phat chicks with yo lil man hood....


----------



## blackcherry

mememe said:


> And that's Americans in all their glory: as soon as they are asked a question that requires a bit of THINKING instead of mumbling some slogan drummed into their heads by US propaganda machine, their lonely brain cell goes into a melt-down producing unintelligible "peee".
> 
> 
> 
> Yet another demonstration as to why Americans are thought of as a nation of idiots.



At least we agree that America has dumbed down in educational terms and it never really developed an  international  taste style of its own .Other than one NOT  based on quality .
It is a shocking  further indictment of a race that  is gun and violence crazed


----------



## High_Gravity

blackcherry said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> She would be on her chubby knees sucking their cocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid little boy .
Click to expand...


Oh my bad, she would be on her knees licking their assholes. That better faggot?


----------



## American_Jihad

mememe said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I posted the evidence that Stalin TOOK the grain from the Ukraine,
> 
> Ahhhhh,
> 
> poor propagandist
> 
> Peepeepee,
> 
> 
> Kiss his feet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Stalin" did NOT take anything. The STATE reqired CENTRALISED BANK of grain. Thanks to that bank, the USSR never experienced famine again. As soon as the scale of the famine became known, Ukraine received all help it needed in order to stop the spread of famine into the following year. Unlike Poland, Hungary, Romania, US and UK where famine was rife all into 1939!
> 
> Yes, Ukraine should not have given as much grain as it did, for that the government of Ukrainian SSR was tried and some went to prisons and labour camps making up the numbers of what you call "innocent victims of Stalin's oppression".
> 
> And now, answer the question you so desperately avoid:
> *If, in your opinion, Stalin is to blame for the famine in the USSR, who is to blame for 1930-s famine in Poland, Hungary, Slovakia, Romania, Germany, UK and US?*
Click to expand...


Stalin is to blame for the famine - Google Search






Proving Intent
Lynne Viola, a professor of history at the University of Toronto, has conducted extensive research on Stalinist-era crimes. Speaking from Moscow, where she was attending a conference on the history of Stalinism, Viola said the 1932-33 famines were aimed not at a particular nationality, but at a particular class -- the kulaks, or peasants. 

"This was very much an urban revolution led by a party that had very little knowledge of the countryside, and in fact disdained the peasantry," Viola says. "So my sense is that Stalin and company really had little concern if people were dying in the countryside. There was simply an inhumane attitude toward the peasantry. And the result of that, first of all, were these excessive forced requisitionings of grain. Everything was taken."

...

Surviving Generations Recall 'Forgotten Genocides'


Stalin is to blame for the famine - Google Search


----------



## American_Jihad

mememe said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lynne Viola, a professor of history at the University of Toronto,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> took picture from 1922 famine in Povolgie. And some photos are those from German death camps. But as we already know, Western "historians" are nothing more than propaganda prostitutes who hold you, Western population for idiots (and they are right!).
> 
> But famine is famine, people do die during it. Which brings us to my question you, people, go to such pains to avoid answering:
> 
> *whom do you blame for famine of 1930-s in USA, Poland, Hungary, Romania, Germany, Slovakia and UK?*
> 
> Please, answer it!
Click to expand...


http://www.usmessageboard.com/7047159-post161.html


----------



## Beria

SAIGON, Its ALLIES not ALIES !


----------



## Beria

Comrade Stalin took over Russia with a wooden plough ,and left her with the ATOMIC BOMB!


----------



## Ringel05

Beria said:


> SAIGON, Its ALLIES not ALIES !



*It's*, not its..........


----------



## zonly1

zonly1 said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> And mememe would have literally been begging them to hump her violently.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She would be on her chubby knees sucking their cocks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seems you been practicing in your corner for more attention, goo gobbler.
Click to expand...


THis puzzy calls himself high returd or no gravity can't answer a fucking question only hides behind cover so he wears off the drunk.


----------



## High_Gravity

mememe said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> blah
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, American stoopido! Answer, whom do you blame for famine of 1930-s in USA, Poland, Hungary, Romania, Germany, Slovakia and UK?
Click to expand...


I blame you, dumb whore.


----------



## High_Gravity

zonly1 said:


> zonly1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> She would be on her chubby knees sucking their cocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems you been practicing in your corner for more attention, goo gobbler.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> THis puzzy calls himself high returd or no gravity can't answer a fucking question only hides behind cover so he wears off the drunk.
Click to expand...


----------



## American_Jihad

*The Devil in History*​
April 16, 2013 By Jamie Glazov

...

Tismaneanu:  I regard both Communism and Fascism as revolutionary projects, inherently and irredeemably hostile to liberal values. Both have used manipulative methods to arouse, to galvanize mass movements committed to an apocalyptic break with an execrated status quo. Both are secular religions obsessed with transcending the existing human condition in favor an anthropological revolution. Both are millenarianisms announcing the advent of the New Man. I suggest that a comparison between Communism and Fascism helps us understand better the nature, goals, and consequences of such movements, including their Islamist heirs. I regard them as parts of an unfinished century of revolutionary hubris.

My main question, underlying all the other ones, is: How was it possible for ideologies so different in their origin and rhetoric to result in mass murder? I see nihilism at the core of both revolutionary programs. Communism, as the great French historian Francois Furet said, is a pathology of the Enlightenment. Fascism is pathology of the Counter-Enlightenment. They are both exacerbated, inflamed, pathological expressions of the attempt to impose through violence elitist fantasies of historical grandeur.

Another main point is my polemic with the disingenuous double standards so often used in dealing with the two totalitarian visions (Communism, in any of its incarnations, and Fascism). It is amazing how prompt the criticism operates whenever dealing with Martin Heideggers romance with National Socialism and how meek the reactions are when focusing on Georg Lukacs, a zealot of Bolshevism until the end of his life.

...

The Devil in History | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## High_Gravity

mememe said:


> American Jihad keeps digging in garbage bins for edumacation.



Better than the toilets you dig through you old slag.


----------



## American_Jihad

mememe said:


> American Jihad keeps digging in garbage bins for edumacation.



*Lenin made the centrality of hatred in leftist movements chillingly explicit. In 1923, he told the Soviet commissars of education, We must teach our children to hate.  Hatred is the basis of communism.  In his tract Left-Wing Communism, Lenin baldly asserted that hatred was the basis of every socialist and Communist movement.*

Now we know why mememe is so stupid and hateful...


----------



## American_Jihad

*Remembering Stalin's deportations*

23 February, 2004

*On 23 February 1944 the Soviet leader, Josef Stalin, deported the entire Chechen people, and their Ingush neighbours, from the Caucasus to Central Asia. Chechen BBC journalist Sapiet Dakhshukaeva talks to some who survived.*

BBC NEWS | Europe | Remembering Stalin's deportations

mememe...


----------



## American_Jihad

mememe said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mememe said:
> 
> 
> 
> American Jihad keeps digging in garbage bins for edumacation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Lenin made the centrality of hatred in leftist movements chillingly explicit. In 1923, he told the Soviet commissars of education, We must teach our children to hate.  Hatred is the basis of communism.  In his tract Left-Wing Communism, Lenin baldly asserted that hatred was the basis of every socialist and Communist movement.*
> 
> :
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL!
> 
> American Jihad made a complete muppet of himself posting fake "quotes" of supposedly Stalin.
> 
> Now he moved onto equally idiotic fakes of "Lenin's quotes".
> 
> Listen, tool, care to give a prime source for that "quote"?
Click to expand...


ROLMAO, the quote is the link just click on it stupid...


----------



## zonly1

zonly1 said:


> zonly1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> She would be on her chubby knees sucking their cocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems you been practicing in your corner for more attention, goo gobbler.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> THis puzzy calls himself high returd or no gravity can't answer a fucking question only hides behind cover so he wears off the drunk.
Click to expand...


must be true from drunk dialer....post are still incoherent ...can't learn the first time begs the question about infinity hu drunk dialer of infinite proportions......


----------



## American_Jihad

mememe said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Remembering Stalin's deportations*
> 
> :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You, Americans, are so stupid you don't even know the difference between "deportation" and "resettlement".
> 
> They were RESETTLED throughout the Soviet Union with compensations for properties left behind and help with settling in a new place, while in actual fact, according to the LAW most of their adult male population had to be shot for crimes they committed. But it would've meant  the end of their ethnicities, so Stalin decided to be a humanist and resettled them instead.
> 
> Unlike US that scooped up all its citizens of Japanese ethnicity and put them into CONCENTRATION CAMPS, while their only "crime" was their ethnicity.
> 
> I am not even mentioning "blankets for Indians"! Or favourite US pastime (way into 1970-s!) of torturing and murdering their co-citizens for their skin colour!
> 
> The US support of Hitler until the end of 1944 is a separate issue! How many people across Europe, Asia and Africa died because you were financing Hitler and enabling him to continue with the war?!
Click to expand...


You're dumber than a stump...


----------



## Politico

Stalin didn't fool anyone.


----------



## editec

Stalin DID fool some of the people some of the time.

But as many American communists went to Russia his reputation tarnished for many of them.

Communism was a passing fancy for many young people of my father's generation --people still stinging from their experiences during the great depression.

But as the evidence of Stalins repression became obvious, most of those people abandoned Communism as a system that failed and STalin as just anothr tyrant.


----------



## Politico

The statement was Stalin fooled the world. He did not.


----------



## editec

mememe said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stalin DID fool some of the people some of the time.
> 
> But as many American communists went to Russia his reputation tarnished for many of them.
> 
> Communism was a passing fancy for many young people of my father's generation --people still stinging from their experiences during the great depression.
> 
> But as the evidence of Stalins repression became obvious, most of those people abandoned Communism as a system that failed and STalin as just anothr tyrant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What "Communism"?!
> 
> You, fucking morons, where did you see "Communism"? No one apart from Westerners referred to SOCIALIST system as "communism"!
Click to expand...


Where was the Communism?

Good question as it surely was NOT found in Stalin's USSR

Most of the people who visited Stalinist Russia (and subsequently abandoned their affection for communism)  were member of the AMERICAN COMMUNIST PARTY, lad.


----------



## Sallow

editec said:


> Stalin DID fool some of the people some of the time.
> 
> But as many American communists went to Russia his reputation tarnished for many of them.
> 
> Communism was a passing fancy for many young people of my father's generation --people still stinging from their experiences during the great depression.
> 
> But as the evidence of Stalins repression became obvious, most of those people abandoned Communism as a system that failed and STalin as just anothr tyrant.



But that's the thing. During the great depression, many Americans were fed up with the government. They were pretty eager to make a change.

Part of FDR's legacy was he was able to stave that change off with progressive reforms.


----------



## Politico

Seriously you created an ID for no other reason than to post in this one thread on the internets. The only reason someone would do that is if they are mentally ill or a troll. Which are you?


----------



## editec

mememe said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mememe said:
> 
> 
> 
> What "Communism"?!
> 
> You, fucking morons, where did you see "Communism"? No one apart from Westerners referred to SOCIALIST system as "communism"!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where was the Communism?
> 
> Good question as it surely was NOT found in Stalin's USSR
> 
> Most of the people who visited Stalinist Russia (and subsequently abandoned their affection for communism)  were member of the AMERICAN COMMUNIST PARTY, lad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly, where, in what country you, Americans, saw "Communism"? You keep using this word, yet you can't answer the question above! How stupid are you not to distinguish between POLITICAL IDEAS and ECONOMIC SYSTEM????!!!!
> 
> Your "American Communist Party" has nothing in common with the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. It's enough to point out that William Browder who robbed Russia blind in the 90-s, and who is strongly suspected of ordering the murder of his two former companions Safra and Magnitsky -- was a grandson of a leader of your American Communist Party!
Click to expand...


There was no communism in Russia, that is certainly true.

I have no doubt that most genuine communists ended up in the gulags or in shallow graves with a bullet in the back of their heads...as did genuine anarchists, genuine socialists, and any other person or party that threatened the authority of STALIN.

What's you point, lad?

That most people here don't understand the difference between Communism and socialism?

Why should they?

Communism is about as real as a unicorn.


----------



## Frontier

Turn on the tv and see how our media broadcasts ads with anti-communist sentiments.


----------



## Antares

The following was the next line, that wasn't an assertion, it was an observation of FAR Left revision.

*Such a revisionist history would seem to have been thoroughly discredited in this day and age, despite its persistence in the early days of the Cold War, but it continues resurfacing, most recently in an Oliver Stone documentary series.*




Saigon said:


> The most leftward of these is to see Stalin as a victim of German and American imperialism who struggled to maintain the peace in the face of aggressive expansionistic efforts by Nazi Germany and the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> By all means back up this claim with some links or examples - but you won't find much.
> 
> Stalin is almost universally regarded by left and right as a dictator, a tryant and a mad man. The fact that he worked with the Alies to defeat Hitler does not change that.
Click to expand...


----------



## Antares

Why keep your brilliance to yourself?

Surely the World could use your superior knowledge of what is and what isn't communism?




editec said:


> mememe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where was the Communism?
> 
> Good question as it surely was NOT found in Stalin's USSR
> 
> Most of the people who visited Stalinist Russia (and subsequently abandoned their affection for communism)  were member of the AMERICAN COMMUNIST PARTY, lad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly, where, in what country you, Americans, saw "Communism"? You keep using this word, yet you can't answer the question above! How stupid are you not to distinguish between POLITICAL IDEAS and ECONOMIC SYSTEM????!!!!
> 
> Your "American Communist Party" has nothing in common with the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. It's enough to point out that William Browder who robbed Russia blind in the 90-s, and who is strongly suspected of ordering the murder of his two former companions Safra and Magnitsky -- was a grandson of a leader of your American Communist Party!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was no communism in Russia, that is certainly true.
> 
> I have no doubt that most genuine communists ended up in the gulags or in shallow graves with a bullet in the back of their heads...as did genuine anarchists, genuine socialists, and any other person or party that threatened the authority of STALIN.
> 
> What's you point, lad?
> 
> That most people here don't understand the difference between Communism and socialism?
> 
> Why should they?
> 
> Communism is about as real as a unicorn.
Click to expand...


----------



## Antares

FDR's New Dealers were made up of many "fellow travelers" American's who had visited Russia and became completely enamored of their system.



Sallow said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stalin DID fool some of the people some of the time.
> 
> But as many American communists went to Russia his reputation tarnished for many of them.
> 
> Communism was a passing fancy for many young people of my father's generation --people still stinging from their experiences during the great depression.
> 
> But as the evidence of Stalins repression became obvious, most of those people abandoned Communism as a system that failed and STalin as just anothr tyrant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But that's the thing. During the great depression, many Americans were fed up with the government. They were pretty eager to make a change.
> 
> Part of FDR's legacy was he was able to stave that change off with progressive reforms.
Click to expand...


----------



## freedombecki

mememe said:


> Emir said:
> 
> 
> 
> horrors of Stalinism, though one might argue that Stalinism is the logical extension of Marxist-Leninism).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet another idiocy of an American brain.
> 
> 1. "Horrors" of "Stalinism" exist only in the heads of Westerners poisoned by US post-WW2 propaganda machine they borrowed off Nazi Germany.
> 
> 2. You already live in a society governed by IDEOLOGY of liberal Marxist-TROTSKIST postulates.
> 
> 3. Socialism is NOT an ideology; it is an ECONOMIC SYSTEM that puts a stop to dictatorship of corporate financial and industrial elite. That's why socialism is so enthusiastically discredited in the West via corporate media and other propaganda tools.
Click to expand...

 
Stalin's genocide of Kulaks through starvation:






Get it now mememe?


----------



## American_Jihad

freedombecki said:


> mememe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emir said:
> 
> 
> 
> horrors of Stalinism, though one might argue that Stalinism is the logical extension of Marxist-Leninism).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet another idiocy of an American brain.
> 
> 1. "Horrors" of "Stalinism" exist only in the heads of Westerners poisoned by US post-WW2 propaganda machine they borrowed off Nazi Germany.
> 
> 2. You already live in a society governed by IDEOLOGY of liberal Marxist-TROTSKIST postulates.
> 
> 3. Socialism is NOT an ideology; it is an ECONOMIC SYSTEM that puts a stop to dictatorship of corporate financial and industrial elite. That's why socialism is so enthusiastically discredited in the West via corporate media and other propaganda tools.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stalin's genocide of Kulaks through starvation:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get it now mememe?
Click to expand...


She has been brainwashed by the KGB, it's like trying to communicate to a rock...


----------



## American_Jihad

*The Virtue of Lucidity: Yuri Glazov and the Fate of Communism*


April 30, 2013 By Vladimir Tismaneanu 

In 1985, the USSR seemed immortal. Most of the observers of Soviet affairs were aware of the insuperable systemic tensions (in Hegelian-Marxist parlance, contradictions), but very few anticipated the regimes imminent end. In fact, such insights existed especially among the small and beleaguered dissident enclaves in the Soviet Union itself and in East-Central Europe. Most Western academics, however, were too busy to scrutinize the arcane workings of the Politburo and regarded the dissident activities as marred by romantic daydreaming. Dissidents could be admired, but not taken too seriously. There were exceptions, to be sure, among them Zbigniew Brzezinski, Robert Conquest, Leo Labedz, Martin Malia, Peter Reddaway, Richard Pipes, Robert C. Tucker and Adam Ulam.

...

The Virtue of Lucidity: Yuri Glazov and the Fate of Communism | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## American_Jihad

Ideological Sociopath: Stalin Reads Machiavelli​
May 13, 2013 By Vladimir Tismaneanu 

...

I know that it might sound shocking, but one cannot deny the fact that Stalin had a Weltanschauung and that he was, in his own way, an intellectual. A self-taught, homicidal, liberticidal, and fanatical one, but an intellectual nevertheless. Wasnt Engels a self-taught philosopher as well? Similarly, one cannot ignore the affinities between Bolshevism and the tradition of political and philosophical radicalism, Russian and European. Marxism was the apotheosis of ethical relativism; it suspended traditional distinctions between good and evil, it defined the good in utilitarian fashion, instrumentally and pragmatically, as all that served the cause of a Messianic proletariat, the alleged redemptive class. In fact, this was a recipe for what Alain Besancon (echoing Vladimir Soloviev) coined as the falsification of the good. In several annotations, long kept secret, Stalin defined his own table of values, he signaled out what he considered vice (or, sin, if you want) and virtue.

...

Ideological Sociopath: Stalin Reads Machiavelli | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## American_Jihad

*Stalins Secret Agents*​
May 14, 2013 By Mark Tapson

Try a word association quiz with the phrase Cold War, and the first two responses that are almost certain to come to the mind of the general public are paranoia and McCarthyism, which is practically a synonym for paranoia. The common assumption, thanks to decades of public school indoctrination and the influence of leftist intellectuals, is that the Cold War, at least in its early decades, was all about suspicious Republicans fearing a Red under every bed and blacklisting innocents in Hollywood. But a recent book (the paperback edition hits bookshelves next month), lays out the historical evidence for massive Communist penetration of our government beginning in the New Deal era, increasingly rapidly during World War II, and afterward leading to gaping breaches of national security and the betrayal of free-world interests.

Contrary to the notion that domestic Communists were simply harmless, misguided idealists, Stalins Secret Agents: The Subversion of Roosevelts Government by M. Stanton Evans and Herbert Romerstein shows that widespread government infiltration by Soviet spies sabotaged our foreign policy and molded the post-WWII world in favor of the Soviet Union. Evans, the author of eight previous books including the controversial revised look at Joseph McCarthy called Blacklisted by History, is a former editor of the Indianapolis News, a Los Angeles Times columnist, and a commentator for the Voice of America. Romerstein is a leading Cold War expert, formerly head of the Office to Counter Soviet Disinformation at the U.S. Information Agency from 1983 until 1989, who has served on the staff of several congressional committees including the House Intelligence Committee.

...

The lessons of this highly readable and concise history are well worth taking to heart today, not merely as an historical study, but as a reflection of the subversive infiltration and influence of the Muslim Brotherhood on our current administration.



Stalin?s Secret Agents | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## whitehall

Stalin didn't need to "fool the world". All he needed to do was to fool a sick tired old man who democrats convinced to run for a 4th term.


----------



## American_Jihad

*The Politics of Resentment*

July 26, 2013 By Vladimir Tismaneanu

...

Glazov revisits some of the most notorious and tragic chapters in the history of Western gullibility, including the case of Walter Duranty, the New York Times Moscow correspondent during the Great Famine and the purges of 1936-1939  about which Duranty knew everything but chose to lie. He denied that millions were starved to death by Stalins police state, and he endorsed (as did the U.S. Ambassador to Moscow, Joseph E. Davies), the Stalinist show trials. Unlike William E. Dodd, the U.S .ambassador to Nazi Germany, who despised and lambasted Hitlers criminal regime, Davies accepted and even endorsed Stalins propaganda and regarded the victims of the Great Purge as genuine saboteurs and spies. In his memoir, Mission to Moscow, made into a Hollywood hit during the war, Davies glamorized Stalins tyranny as a popular regime. Mass terror was glossed over and the Davieses maintained cordial relations with Stalins clique.

At the Hillwood Collection in Washington one can see a superb Russian vase received as a gift by the Ambassadors then wife, millionaire Marjorie Merriweather Post, from Madame Molotov, Polina Zhemchuzhina. An uninformed visitor would have no idea that the object was most likely the result of Bolshevik plundering of Russian old fortunes and that Mme Molotov was herself arrested in the late 1940s, tried and deported to the Gulag as a Zionist agent. The Molotovs grandson, political commentator Vyacheslav Nikonov, is, incidentally, one of Vladimir Putins chief propagandists.

...

Unfortunately, the illusions of the radical leftists continue to misinform much of the public discourse in the West, including efforts to blame the U.S. for war and every misfortune from AIDS to global warming. Instead of seeing Islamism as an heir to the totalitarian movements of the last century, many leftists prefer to find justifications for the anti-Western anger they dispense.

...

For these revolutionary oracles, radical Islam and Palestinian terrorism are purifying forces, catalysts of the Great Refusal (a term dear to Herbert Marcuse, once the guru of the counter-culture), whereas liberal capitalism is rotten, worthy only of being smashed. Unfortunately, such ideas are infectious and seem to have poisoned the minds of many young people in post-communist countries. Attacking capitalism as soulless, inhuman, mercantile, and philistine has become, once again, a favorite enterprise of the intelligentsia.

...

The Politics of Resentment | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## American_Jihad

*Stalin, Putin, and the Challenges of Memory*

September 30, 2013 By Vladimir Tismaneanu

Polish thinker Leszek Kolakowski (often called the philosopher of Solidarity) saw the post-communist landscape as marred by enduring Leninist legacies. He called these debris moving ruins, referring to the avatars of the old elites, the absence of moral clarity, and the persistence of ideological and cultural relics of the old regime. The first stage of the revolutions of 1989-1991 was dominated by an exhilarating sense of recovered liberty and the widespread belief that authoritarianism had been irreversibly defeated. Sociologist S. N. Eisenstadt accurately  described those revolutions as non-utopian, non-ideological, non-eschatological. As a rule, they were non-violent eruptions of civic discontent against the supremacy of lies and the rampant cynicism of the communist bureaucracies. The thrust of the mass protests was favoring the dissident philosophy of freedom, civility, and  dignity.

...

Formed in the secretive culture of the KGB, Czar Vladimir remains deeply attached to the possessed founder of the Bolshevik secret police (the Cheka), Felix Dzerzhinsky, a Polish aristocrat who decided to give his early dream to become a priest and turned instead into a fanatic Leninist. The chapter dealing with the ongoing efforts to lionize this torturer is particularly revealing and deeply disturbing. In the same vein, Satter highlights the endeavors to instill a sense of admiration for Yuri Andropov, himself an adamant Leninist, who, as chairman of the KGB in the 1970s and 1980s, supervised the persecution of Soviet dissidents and the neutralization of any form of opposition.

...

As a matter of fact, a few years ago Putin lamented the collapse of the USSR as the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the twentieth century. For him and his former KGB cronies, pluralism remains the enemy. In this respect, Putin is more Stalins than Yeltsins heir. His ideology has little to do with Bolshevik mythologies, yet his mindset remains authoritarian and inimical to individual rights. His worldview is conspiratorial, sectarian, militaristic, and exclusive, a prolongation of Lenins Manichean political cosmology.

Stalin, Putin, and the Challenges of Memory | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## American_Jihad

*Red Love*

October 18, 2013 By Ron Radosh

...

And so in the granddaughter, we get the hint of the birth of the New Left, drawn to Cuba as her ancestors were drawn to Stalin&#8217;s paradise. The girl, named Prim Rosenbaum, offers her poetry on how great Communist Cuba is. &#8220;We prayed in the sun in front of the healthiest cows I&#8217;d ever seen.&#8221; Would someone say anything like this? I know from my own experience how true his parody is. In my trip to  Cuba with erstwhile Castroites in 1975, one member of our group, learning that the showplace psychiatric facility regularly lobotomized their patients, exclaimed: &#8220;We have to understand the difference between Communist lobotomies and capitalist lobotomies.&#8221;

And then there is that wonderful parody of Communist left-speak.  Speaking about his wife, Solly Rubell writes that Dolly &#8220;is the most beautiful person I have ever met&#8230;She has such revolutionary anger; she never deviates from it. She referred to Eisenhower the other day as a &#8216;guttersnipe in striped pants.&#8217; And &#8216;a privileged fascist dog.&#8217;&#8230;she talks that way to me. I have learned so much from her integrity.&#8221;

At another time, Solly Rubell says that not only has &#8220;the U.S.S.R. had improved the lot of the underdog,&#8221; it actually put an end to &#8220;most death as we know it.&#8221; Another character named Strugin &#8212; someone modeled on the CP&#8217;s late top ideologue and would-be historian, Herbert Aptheker, tells the narrator Lerner that in the Soviet Union, his thin hair would grow back &#8220;as a matter of course.&#8221; The real Herbert Aptheker, when a friend asked him to explain why anti-Semitism was so prevalent in the Soviet Union, responded: &#8220;There is no anti-Semitism in the Soviet Union. It is forbidden by Stalin&#8217;s Constitution.&#8221; Evanier knows the kind of apologia for terror that the American Reds regularly engaged in; he simply takes it one notch further by making it so ridiculous, that even an honest commie would realize that his own statements are just as foolish.

...Red Love | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## American_Jihad

*A Farewell to Lenin: Stalins Litany of Vows*


January 22, 2014 by Vladimir Tismaneanu



...

In his Letter to the Congress, dictated in December 1922 and January 1923 to his secretary, Lydia Fotieva, Lenin requested Stalins replacement as general secretary. Politburo members read the document but decided to keep it secret. Lenins demands were ignored, denied, forgotten. The old leaders power had vanished. Paeans were of course dedicated to him, he was lionized in poems and songs, his name was frantically chanted, but he had ceased to be the real decision-maker regarding the great strategic choices and bureaucratic appointments. By that moment, all the key-institutions of the totalitarian system had been set in place and made to function in order to preserve the Bolsheviks  absolute hold on power. In the following years, the epigones, and Stalin more than anybody else, did their utmost to radicalize them and to exacerbate the exclusionary, genocidal logic of  Leninism.

Lenins disciples preferred to maintain Stalin in a crucial position. With very few exceptions, they failed to realize that he who controls the cadres controls the party and thereby the whole system. When they became aware of this situation, it was tragically late. They had lost the battle. The Old Bolsheviks had been eliminated from crucial positions, politically emasculated, replaced by robot-like creatures totally subjugated by the supreme leader, the vozhd (the Bolshevik equivalent of what the Nazi would call the Fuhrer). Among those, some became utterly influential as members of Stalins entorurage: Lazar Kaganovich, Georgi Malenkov, Lev Mekhlis, and Nikolay Yezhov.

In 1929, Stalin unleashed the revolution from above and implemented Lev Trotskys militaristic program minus the proposals to observe a modicum of intra-party democracy. Lenins final opposition to the bureaucratic elephantiasis and his critique of the mendacious propaganda system were totally discarded. The Leninist creed was sacralized and mummified in order to legitimize the power appetite of a profitocratic nomenklatura, a parasytical caste claiming to represent the proletarian interests and values.

At the moment of Lenins demise, the party elite was beset by a well-camouflaged, yet fierce struggle between those who wanted to inherit his mantle. Stalin established an alliance with Lev Kamenev, the head of the Moscow party organization and Lenins deputy at helm of the Council of Peoples Commissars, and with Grigory Zinoviev, the leader of the Petrograd  (soon to be baptized Leningrad) organization and chairman of the Third International, also known as the Comintern, a supra-national institution created in 1919 to promote Leninist revolutionary ideas globally.

Thus, a troika emerged made up of Lenins epigones: Kamenev, Zinoviev, and Stalin. They shared a common hostility to Lev Trotsky, a Politburo member, the first commander of the Red Army, and a firebrand revolutionary apostle. In his Letter to the Congress, in fact his political testament, Lenin had called Trotsky the most brilliant member of the Central Committee. The triumvirs hated Trotkys revolutionary extravaganzas, his undisguised sense of superiority, and his presumed Bonapartist inclinations. As early as 1923, when Lenin was still alive, Zinoviev had launched a furious campaign in defense of  Bolshevism against the mortal peril, the extremely dangerous Trotskyist deviation. This was in fact a fabrication, a political chimera, a fantasy meant to vilify and demonize Trotsky. The Leninist cult found support also among the members of Nikolay Bukharinss faction.

...





Stalinist mythologies: Lenin and Stalin, a painting by Aleksei Vasiliev.​
...

All these themes were saliently featured in Stalins oath delivered in that frigidly cold January in Moscow. That text contained, in embryo, the Stalinist gospel. In spite of its monotonous discursive repetitions, the litany evolved in a crescendo of quasi-mystical devotion.Each paragraph begins with the magical words: Departing from us, Comrade Lenin enjoined us Lenin emerges from this hagiographic apotheosis as eternally alive, unperishable, immortal. Lenin has become the vivid presence of a fallacious, temporary absence. Medieval superstitions did thus triumph within a political and ideological movement proudly dedicated to materialist philosophical principles. One doesnt need to endorse Isaac Deutschers approach to Bolshevism in order to agree with him that Stalinism was a blending of Marxism and primitive magic.

...

For Stalin, Trotsky embodied the opposite of his own vision of the professional revolutionary: cosmopolite, multi-lingual, with immense literary and philosophical readings, a brilliant journalist, a masterful stylist, and an electrifying orateur. Antipodically situated, Dzhugashvili was dark, dull, somber, a taciturn introvert, pathologically suspicious of everyone and everything. Like Lenin, Trotsky belonged to an international fraternity of Central Europeans socialists, he had known Karl Kautsky, Rosa Luxemburg and many others. He had read Goethe, Schiller, Heine, Lassale, and Marx in German. Yet, this superiority was misleading and did not help him in the terrible, unsparing competition with Stalin.  He committed a huge mistake by calling Dzhugasvili the Central Committees most notorious mediocrity. Narcissistic arrogance was Trotskys main weakness for which he was to finally pay with his life.

In his Oath, Stalin forcefully highlighted the themes that were to energize him in his endeavor to demonstrate that he outdid all his rivals in terms of deep dedication to Lenins desires:

...

A Farewell to Lenin: Stalin?s Litany of Vows | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## Theowl32

Vandalshandle said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> We also knew that if we went to war with the Soviet union in 1945, we would not have won.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1945? Of course we would have won.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only person who thought that was Patton, and he LIVED to make war.
Click to expand...


Hi commie. Your red commie bullshit is just that. 

Our country (America) was at full strength. Maybe you do not know this, but no country actually bombed America's factories over here. Our infrastructure was totally in tact. 

What does that mean from a logistical point of view? Patton was exactly right from a strategic point of view. The Russians army were disseminated and totally worn out. Our hardware was already there.

Would have won just from an attrition perspective. 

Also, Stalin was trying to drum something up against the west already. He negotiated a deal with Japan to surrender to him, cause Stalin was very interested in getting those trade routes in the east. 

Perhaps you did not know that the Soviets declared war on Japan in 1945, when they reneged and surrendered to the US. Now, the Soviets (Stalin) was very upset over this. 

Soviets declare war on Japan; invade Manchuria ? History.com This Day in History ? 8/8/1945

Hence the reason the US drops the second bomb on Aug 9th 1945. 

Oh, Aug. 8th 1945, Stalin declared war on Japan, the next day the US dropped the second bomb. Not to stop Japan, but to show USSR what was about to happen. 

Of course many of the Russian Jews that had began emigrating to the America's from the late 19th century were Stalin loyalists and were indeed communists. From the Emma Goldman types (great liberal hero) to the Rosenbergs. WHO, betrayed this country (really the world) in ways that the world would never recover. 

This is where the Charles Schumers and their types come from, and why 90% of them vote and desire this socialist style of government. They are a very stubborn people, and these old stories were passed down generation to generation since the Jews began emigrating here from the Russian country. 

The bottom line is America had the capability to destroy the USSR. Unless you think distinct logistical advantages (like America's entire infrastructure in tact as far as war factoris etc etc) were not a big deal. You cannot possibly be that stupid. To say nothing of the fact that the Rosenbergs had not yet betrayed the world and the USSR had nothing to match the fire power of the A bomb. 

There, you and people like you have been educated. 

USA > USSR

Capitalism > Communism/Socialism

Eat shit communists. Eat shit.


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Stalin is one of the liberal founding fathers.


----------



## American_Jihad

*'Trumbo' Betrays Victims of Soviet Anti-Semitism*
* Whitewashing a defender of Stalin's brutal crimes. *
November 18, 2015
Lloyd Billingsley






The late Soviet dictator Josef Stalin made a name for himself by murdering millions, as Nikita Khrushchev and other Soviet bosses acknowledged. In _The Untold History of the United States_, co-author and Academy Award-winning filmmaker Oliver Stone lists only two atrocities for Stalin. So it should come as no surprise that an American Stalinist screenwriter should be the subject of a movie such as _Trumbo_, currently making the rounds. 

Dalton Trumbo made a name for himself, and a lot of money, by churning out screenplays based on producers’ ideas. For decades he has been cast as a noble artist, a victim of McCarthyism, and a champion of free speech and constitutional rights. None of that is true but there’s more to the man than anyone will find in Hollywood legend. In a famous speech, Trumbo claimed that Hollywood’s political wars yielded “only victims.” In Trumbo’s heyday victims did indeed abound, but they don’t show up in the movies. 

In August 1939 Stalin and Hitler signed a pact that divided up Europe and effectively started World War II. Many German Jewish Communists had fled to the Soviet Union but during the Pact Stalin handed those Jews over to the Gestapo. The Stalin-Hitler Pact prompted many to abandon the Communist Party, never to return, but Dalton Trumbo was not one of those. Trumbo joined the Communist Party during the Pact and worked like Stakhanov for the cause. 

In Communist Party doctrine, art is a weapon and writers were “artists in uniform” serving a political purpose. Trumbo, who aspired to be a novelist, was comfortable with that concept. In 1940, when Britain stood alone against Nazi attack, Trumbo wrote _The Remarkable Andrew_ in which the ghost of General Andrew Jackson argues against American military aid to Britain because “there’s no point in cooking up an alliance with a country that’s already licked.” 

After Hitler broke the Pact and invaded his ally, the Party scribes became patriotic pro-war militants. Trumbo wrote scripts for _A Guy Named Joe _and _Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo_. He also cooperated with the FBI investigating writers who might be anti-war. This was the heyday of Soviet adulation and Communist writers played a major role. 

The film _Mission to Moscow_, which some dubbed “Submission to Moscow,” appeared in 1943. That year the first Soviet Jewish delegation to the United States assured Americans that tales of anti-Semitism in the USSR were no more than malicious rumors. Samuel Ornitz, who would later join Trumbo in the Hollywood Ten, organized a reception for Soviet actor-director Solomon Mikoels and writer Itzak Feffer. 

After the war the USSR occupied half of Europe and proclaimed the USA the main enemy. Stalin swung the USSR back to its traditional anti-semitism, deriding Jews as “rootless cosmopolitans.” In 1948, Stalin had Mikoels murdered, his mutilated body signaling the dictator’s personal touch. Three years later an executioner’s bullet claimed Itzak Feffer. Many more Jews would have been killed had not Stalin died in 1953. 

...

'Trumbo' Betrays Victims of Soviet Anti-Semitism


----------



## JimBowie1958

editec said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stalin did not fool anybody.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, not for long at any rate.
Click to expand...

He fooled the New York Times editors for decades.


----------



## JimBowie1958

American_Jihad said:


> *'Trumbo' Betrays Victims of Soviet Anti-Semitism*
> * Whitewashing a defender of Stalin's brutal crimes. *
> November 18, 2015
> Lloyd Billingsley
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The late Soviet dictator Josef Stalin made a name for himself by murdering millions, as Nikita Khrushchev and other Soviet bosses acknowledged. In _The Untold History of the United States_, co-author and Academy Award-winning filmmaker Oliver Stone lists only two atrocities for Stalin. So it should come as no surprise that an American Stalinist screenwriter should be the subject of a movie such as _Trumbo_, currently making the rounds.
> 
> Dalton Trumbo made a name for himself, and a lot of money, by churning out screenplays based on producers’ ideas. For decades he has been cast as a noble artist, a victim of McCarthyism, and a champion of free speech and constitutional rights. None of that is true but there’s more to the man than anyone will find in Hollywood legend. In a famous speech, Trumbo claimed that Hollywood’s political wars yielded “only victims.” In Trumbo’s heyday victims did indeed abound, but they don’t show up in the movies.
> 
> In August 1939 Stalin and Hitler signed a pact that divided up Europe and effectively started World War II. Many German Jewish Communists had fled to the Soviet Union but during the Pact Stalin handed those Jews over to the Gestapo. The Stalin-Hitler Pact prompted many to abandon the Communist Party, never to return, but Dalton Trumbo was not one of those. Trumbo joined the Communist Party during the Pact and worked like Stakhanov for the cause.
> 
> In Communist Party doctrine, art is a weapon and writers were “artists in uniform” serving a political purpose. Trumbo, who aspired to be a novelist, was comfortable with that concept. In 1940, when Britain stood alone against Nazi attack, Trumbo wrote _The Remarkable Andrew_ in which the ghost of General Andrew Jackson argues against American military aid to Britain because “there’s no point in cooking up an alliance with a country that’s already licked.”
> 
> After Hitler broke the Pact and invaded his ally, the Party scribes became patriotic pro-war militants. Trumbo wrote scripts for _A Guy Named Joe _and _Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo_. He also cooperated with the FBI investigating writers who might be anti-war. This was the heyday of Soviet adulation and Communist writers played a major role.
> 
> The film _Mission to Moscow_, which some dubbed “Submission to Moscow,” appeared in 1943. That year the first Soviet Jewish delegation to the United States assured Americans that tales of anti-Semitism in the USSR were no more than malicious rumors. Samuel Ornitz, who would later join Trumbo in the Hollywood Ten, organized a reception for Soviet actor-director Solomon Mikoels and writer Itzak Feffer.
> 
> After the war the USSR occupied half of Europe and proclaimed the USA the main enemy. Stalin swung the USSR back to its traditional anti-semitism, deriding Jews as “rootless cosmopolitans.” In 1948, Stalin had Mikoels murdered, his mutilated body signaling the dictator’s personal touch. Three years later an executioner’s bullet claimed Itzak Feffer. Many more Jews would have been killed had not Stalin died in 1953.
> 
> ...
> 
> 'Trumbo' Betrays Victims of Soviet Anti-Semitism



Great author and the movie was OK, but I could not suspend disbelief for long as I have some familiarity with history and know the old American commies to be the hypocrital sons of bitches they have always been.


----------



## American_Jihad

*Winning Eurovision Song Remembers Communist Atrocities *
* “They come to your house, they kill you all.” *
May 17, 2016
Lloyd Billingsley





  The song “1944,” by singer-songwriter Susana Jamaladynova who performs as Jamala, has won the 2016 Eurovision song contest for Ukraine. This victory makes the annual event something more than a musical competition. 

“1944” recalls Stalin’s mass deportation of Crimean Tatars. As the _Guardian_ explained, Stalin accused the Tatars of collaborating with Nazi forces who occupied the Crimean peninsula and in 1944 forcibly moved them to central Asia and other remote areas. Between 20 and 50 percent of the deportees died within the first two years of exile. 

For Jamala, it’s more than a historical reference. The deportees included her great-grandmother, her four sons, and one daughter. So as she told reporters in February, the song “really is about my family.” 

“When strangers are coming,” the lyrics explains, “they come to your house, they kill you all and say, we’re not guilty.” Her parents and family still live on the Crimean peninsula but she has not been back there since 2014, the year Putin’s forces moved in. That year, current presidential candidate Hillary Clinton waded into the Ukrainian crisis by invoking history. 

Referring to Vladimir Putin’s plans to provide passports to Russians outside the nation’s borders, she said it was “what Hitler did back in the ‘30s.” Clinton ignored the “back in the ‘30s” history most applicable to Ukraine. The shot-caller then was Joseph Stalin, and he set out to crush all vestiges of Ukrainian nationalism, as Russian tyrants had done for ages. In his forced collectivization campaign, Stalin raised Ukraine’s grain procurement quotas by 44 percent. 

That meant that there would not be enough grain to feed the people, but to make sure, Stalin also deployed regular troops and secret police units in a merciless war of attrition. And that condemned millions to death by starvation. That is genocide by any standard, but for Stalin it was a big success. As one of his commanders said, it showed the Ukrainians “who is the master here.” Walter Duranty of the _New York Times_ denied that any famine had taken place and won a Pulitzer Prize. 

...

One finds no such hesitation in Susana Jamaladynova, and the victory of “1944” keeps hope alive for songs about the Katyn Forest massacre and Stalin’s delivery of German Jews to the Gestapo during the Nazi-Soviet Pact. In the interest of diversity, maybe somebody could compose a tune about the Cultural Revolution, which according to the _New York Times_ claimed 1.5 million lives. As an inscription on one grave had it “Heads can roll, blood can flow, but Mao Zedong Thought must never go.” 1944 wasn’t the only time Communists came to somebody’s house, killed everybody, and said they were not guilty.

Winning Eurovision Song Remembers Communist Atrocities


----------



## sharik

American_Jihad said:


> Stalin accused the Tatars of collaborating with Nazi forces


by right so, what 'atrocities'? Stalin is not known for committing atrocities or something of the sort.


----------



## sharik

American_Jihad said:


> The late Soviet dictator Josef Stalin made a name for himself by murdering millions,



he did not murder anyone, leave alone millions. Stalin had built the country from scratch after the civil war. Russians thrived under his rule.



American_Jihad said:


> as Nikita Khrushchev and other Soviet bosses acknowledged.



nice how Western spin doctors take the word of Bolsheviks or Communists when fits them and ignore it whenever want.


----------



## Theowl32

sharik said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stalin accused the Tatars of collaborating with Nazi forces
> 
> 
> 
> by right so, what 'atrocities'? Stalin is not known for committing atrocities or something of the sort.
Click to expand...

Holy shit


----------



## sharik

the ever dastardly West is disgusting in its attacks on Russia, its peoples and history.


----------



## Theowl32

sharik said:


> the ever dastardly West is disgusting in its attacks on Russia, its peoples and history.


Loser on ignore.  Congrats. You managed to become the stupidest poster I have ever seen anywhere. 

No, it is better than that. You are the dumbest person I have ever addressed ever.

With all due disrespect.


----------



## sharik

Theowl32 said:


> Loser on ignore.  Congrats. You managed to become the stupidest poster I have ever seen anywhere.


yeah, name calling for no other argument at hand.


----------



## Unkotare

We Can Finally See Stalin's Atrocities


----------



## Unkotare

How Many People Did Joseph Stalin Kill?


----------



## Unkotare

Diaries of reporter who exposed Stalin's atrocities go on display


----------



## Unkotare

Stalin killed millions. A Stanford historian answers the question, was it genocide?


----------



## Unkotare

Stalin's army of rapists: The  brutal war crime that Russia and Germany tried to ignore


----------



## Unkotare

Russians to Putin: We Won’t Forget Stalin’s Crimes


----------



## Moonglow

Emir said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The most leftward of these is to see Stalin as a victim of German and American imperialism who struggled to maintain the peace in the face of aggressive expansionistic efforts by Nazi Germany and the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> By all means back up this claim with some links or examples - but you won't find much.
> 
> Stalin is almost universally regarded by left and right as a dictator, a tryant and a mad man. The fact that he worked with the Alies to defeat Hitler does not change that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed. Socialists in the west have spent the past 90 years trying to explain that you can have socialism without Marxist-Leninism (and especially the horrors of Stalinism, though one might argue that Stalinism is the logical extension of Marxist-Leninism).
Click to expand...

Hardly as Lenin was not an ecclesiastical communist, Stalin was....


----------



## American_Jihad

sharik said:


> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Loser on ignore.  Congrats. You managed to become the stupidest poster I have ever seen anywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, name calling for no other argument at hand.
Click to expand...

 Fuck stalin and those that defend him...

Under Stalin's rule, the concept of "Socialism in One Country" became a central tenet of Soviet society, contrary to Leon Trotsky's view that socialism must be spread through continuous international revolutions. He replaced the New Economic Policy introduced by Lenin in the early 1920s with a highly centralised command economy, launching a period of industrialization and collectivization that resulted in the rapid transformation of the USSR from an agrarian society into an industrial power.[4] However, the economic changes coincided with the imprisonment of millions of people in Gulag labour camps.[5] The initial upheaval in agriculture disrupted food production and contributed to the catastrophic Soviet famine of 1932–33, known in Ukraine as the Holodomor. Between 1934 and 1939 he organized and led a massive purge (known as "Great Purge") of the party, government, armed forces and intelligentsia, in which millions of so-called "enemies of the working class" were imprisoned, exiled or executed, often without due process. Major figures in the Communist Party and government, and many Red Army high commanders, were killed after being convicted of treason in show trials.[6]

Joseph Stalin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Moonglow

American_Jihad said:


> sharik said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Loser on ignore.  Congrats. You managed to become the stupidest poster I have ever seen anywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, name calling for no other argument at hand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fuck stalin and those that defend him...
> 
> Under Stalin's rule, the concept of "Socialism in One Country" became a central tenet of Soviet society, contrary to Leon Trotsky's view that socialism must be spread through continuous international revolutions. He replaced the New Economic Policy introduced by Lenin in the early 1920s with a highly centralised command economy, launching a period of industrialization and collectivization that resulted in the rapid transformation of the USSR from an agrarian society into an industrial power.[4] However, the economic changes coincided with the imprisonment of millions of people in Gulag labour camps.[5] The initial upheaval in agriculture disrupted food production and contributed to the catastrophic Soviet famine of 1932–33, known in Ukraine as the Holodomor. Between 1934 and 1939 he organized and led a massive purge (known as "Great Purge") of the party, government, armed forces and intelligentsia, in which millions of so-called "enemies of the working class" were imprisoned, exiled or executed, often without due process. Major figures in the Communist Party and government, and many Red Army high commanders, were killed after being convicted of treason in show trials.[6]
> 
> Joseph Stalin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

Did you know that the Czar crated gulags and exile in Siberia for social misfits?? Or they would just......kill you , don't forget the Czars and their pogroms which killed, harassed, imprisoned and exiled Jews for all the ills Russia experienced, even the defeat and occupation by the Sweds and Poles...


----------



## sharik

Unkotare said:


> We Can Finally See Stalin's Atrocities





Unkotare said:


> How Many People Did Joseph Stalin Kill?





Unkotare said:


> Diaries of reporter who exposed Stalin's atrocities go on display





Unkotare said:


> Stalin killed millions. A Stanford historian answers the question, was it genocide?





Unkotare said:


> Stalin's army of rapists: The  brutal war crime that Russia and Germany tried to ignore





Unkotare said:


> Russians to Putin: We Won’t Forget Stalin’s Crimes



what a pack of shameless lies & brainwash, all based on fraudulent Western publications, no better than those of Goebbel's anti-Russian propaganda.


----------



## sharik

American_Jihad said:


> Fuck stalin and those that defend him...



why?


----------



## there4eyeM

There is no defense possible for Stalin.


----------



## sharik

here's a glaring example of Western media falsehood. Euronews claims two million tatars were deported -






while in fact it was only 200 000 - Deportation of the Crimean Tatars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## sharik

there4eyeM said:


> There is no defense possible for Stalin.



as if you're informed enough to speak out in such manner...

what do you know on the subject but the lies you were told at school and by the media?


----------



## Moonglow

sharik said:


> there4eyeM said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no defense possible for Stalin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> as if you're informed enough to speak out in such manner...
> 
> what do you know on the subject but the lies you were told at school and by the media?
Click to expand...

So Stalin was a nice guy, and just gets bad press?


----------



## Unkotare

sharik said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> We Can Finally See Stalin's Atrocities
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> How Many People Did Joseph Stalin Kill?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Diaries of reporter who exposed Stalin's atrocities go on display
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stalin killed millions. A Stanford historian answers the question, was it genocide?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stalin's army of rapists: The  brutal war crime that Russia and Germany tried to ignore
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russians to Putin: We Won’t Forget Stalin’s Crimes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what a pack of shameless lies & brainwash.....
Click to expand...



You mean what a pack of facts and historical data from a wide variety of sources, of course. No one is buying your rubbish, slack jaw.


----------



## sharik

Moonglow said:


> So Stalin was a nice guy, and just gets bad press?



exactly.


----------



## sharik

Unkotare said:


> You mean what a pack of facts and historical data from a wide variety of sources,



*western sources*, in case you failed to notice, silly, they have an axe to grind; might as well give links to your on writings.


----------



## Unkotare

sharik said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean what a pack of facts and historical data from a wide variety of sources,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *western sources*, in case you failed to notice, silly, they have an axe to grind; might as well give links to your on writings.
Click to expand...






Get back into the bad movie you crawled out of, clown.


----------



## Decus

Russia Today which is a Russian government funded news channel posts this on their website:

_"Stalin's purges could otherwise be translated as "Stalin's Terror". *They grew from his paranoia and his desire to be absolute autocrat*, and were enforced via the NKVD (Communist Secret police) and public 'show trials'. *They helped develop a centrally-enforced 'cult of Stalin-worship', and a terrifying system of labor camps - the gulag*."
.....
"The purges affected not only those who openly opposed Stalin, but ordinary people too. *During Stalin's rule of the country over 20 million people were sent to labor camps, where nearly half of them died*."
.......
"An indication of the vast scope of the Great Purge was the discovery, during the Second World War, in Vinnytsia (Ukraine) of a mass grave containing 10,000 bodies of residents of the region who were shot between 1937 and 1938. Given the lack of complete data, it is difficult to establish the total loss of life brought about by the Stalinist terror. An average estimate is that in the Soviet Union as a whole, about 500,000 were executed in 1937-39 and somewhere between 3 and 12 million were sent to labor camps." 
......
"*After Stalin's death all of the victims of the purges (or as they were called, “enemies of the people”) were gradually rehabilitated*."_

Stalin's Purges – Russiapedia Of Russian origin


----------



## sharik

Unkotare said:


> Get back into the bad movie you crawled out of, clown.



bad movies? Hollywood's and you seem to have watched these a lot.



Decus said:


> Russia Today which is a Russian government funded news channel posts this on their website:



so what? Russia govt appeasing the West and looking lame compared to Stalin, of course they badmouth him for his achievements.


----------



## Igrok_

sharik said:


> the ever dastardly West is disgusting in its attacks on Russia, its peoples and history.


How is Stalin connected to russian people and history? Gulag, slavery, totall genocide of russians, famine, use of people to make only weapons to kill western people while civil accomodation of technology was banned, total propaganda and censorship, death penalty for children, 25-years penalties in slavery for jokes and 'wrong' way of thinking...

Yeah russians will never forget the regime that ruined their 1000-year country in just 75 years, divided it into several parts and still claim themselves as benefactors! What an insane thinking!


----------



## sharik

Igrok_ said:


> How is Stalin connected to russian people and history?


how?.. very directly and immediately. Stalin saved Russia, its peoples & culture.


Igrok_ said:


> Gulag, slavery, totall genocide of russians, famine,


just don't make up stories, ok?


Igrok_ said:


> while civil accomodation of technology was banned,


it was not banned, on contrary, it was implemented to be used by Soviet peoples'.


Igrok_ said:


> total propaganda and censorship,


they in the West live like that for decades now.


Igrok_ said:


> death penalty for children,


making up stories again?.. provide the names of these children.


Igrok_ said:


> 25-years penalties in slavery for jokes


no such penalty existed; my grandfather spent only half year in jail 1937 for telling anti-communist joke.


----------



## Igrok_

sharik said:


> they in the West live like that for decades now.


what is in the West doesn't matter.


sharik said:


> making up stories again?.. provide the names of these children.


Names? Maybe height and weight too? Or foot size?


sharik said:


> no such penalty existed; my grandfather spent only half year in jail 1937 for telling anti-communist joke.


And what your grandfather has to do here?


sharik said:


> Stalin saved Russia, its peoples & culture.


By eliminating them? Good saving.



sharik said:


> just don't make up stories, ok?


And that is your answer, I suppose. Ok, proceed living in your fantasies, maybe somewhen you will face the reality.


----------



## anotherlife

Stalin was evil, but he was rather a puppet of the Russian Jews, if not a Jew himself, by family origin.  ...in case we want to find out who wants toe.iminate the Russians.


----------



## Igrok_

anotherlife said:


> Stalin was evil, but he was rather a puppet of the Russian Jews, if not a Jew himself, by family origin.  ...in case we want to find out who wants toe.iminate the Russians.


russians were too weak in order to resist Stalin. Nobody was prepared for that kind of evil, which wasn't known in the world before...


----------



## sharik

Igrok_ said:


> Names? Maybe height and weight too? Or foot size?


no, just names.


Igrok_ said:


> And what your grandfather has to do here?


serves as an example, what else?


Igrok_ said:


> By eliminating them? Good saving.


like, all of them? Stalin was interested there to be more Russians, he depended on the people, so he protected them, its clear as daylight.


----------



## sharik

anotherlife said:


> Stalin was evil,


and who is not then?


----------



## sharik

Igrok_ said:


> russians were too weak in order to resist Stalin.


why should they resist the one who gave them free education & healthcare and lead them to victories and other achievements.


----------



## anotherlife

sharik said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stalin was evil,
> 
> 
> 
> and who is not then?
Click to expand...

There are degrees of it.


----------



## ThirdTerm

Stalin oversaw the country’s rapid industrialization, the collectivization of agriculture, and the Allied victory in World War II. Under Stalin, the Soviet Union became a nuclear power and gained permanent membership on the UN Security Council. Stalin also ordered the construction of Moscow’s metro system, the iconic Seven Sisters skyscrapers, and the All-Russia Exhibition Center.


----------



## anotherlife

Igrok_ said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stalin was evil, but he was rather a puppet of the Russian Jews, if not a Jew himself, by family origin.  ...in case we want to find out who wants toe.iminate the Russians.
> 
> 
> 
> russians were too weak in order to resist Stalin. Nobody was prepared for that kind of evil, which wasn't known in the world before...
Click to expand...

Is it possible, that ww1 implemented an aspect of humans, that was underestimated before that time, and is more evil than imagined.


----------



## Igrok_

sharik said:


> no, just names.


Ivan, Vasiliy - just one of them. It's enough.



sharik said:


> serves as an example, what else?


How you grandfather could serve as example? The example is who were prisoned on 25 years for his relatives or way of thinking.



sharik said:


> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> By eliminating them? Good saving.
> 
> 
> 
> like, all of them? Stalin was interested there to be more Russians, he depended on the people, so he protected them, its clear as daylight.
Click to expand...

Not, just several dozens million. Not much for him and his believers.
He didn't depend on people, how could mass murderer depend on his victims.



sharik said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stalin was evil,
> 
> 
> 
> and who is not then?
Click to expand...

In comarison with Lenin and Stalin even Hitler is a good man.


sharik said:


> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> russians were too weak in order to resist Stalin.
> 
> 
> 
> why should they resist the one who gave them free education & healthcare and lead them to victories and other achievements.
Click to expand...

yep! and took their lifes and ruined families. Good exchange only for communist fanatics.


----------



## Igrok_

Photo of the communist's document allowing death penalty for children:


----------



## sharik

anotherlife said:


> There are degrees of it.


that's *hypocrisy* if so. Stalin was dealing with incomparably more complex issues than any ruler in world history; he had to build a country from scratch and create a new ruling elite in place of the annihilated one; he also built a *new model state* with completely different economy model than ever seen before; this was achieved amidst raging bureaucracy wars and sabotage; its just fantastic that he managed to accomplish that.


----------



## sharik

Igrok_ said:


> Ivan, Vasiliy - just one of them. It's enough.


i meant surnames, of course.


Igrok_ said:


> The example is who were prisoned on 25 years for his relatives or way of thinking.


you wouldn't get jailed for 'way of thinking' back then and never.
you had to belong to a group of corporate interests or be a criminal like murderer or rapist to do time that long.


Igrok_ said:


> Not, just several dozens million. Not much for him and his believers.


if you count those who died natural death, like old age or desease, then yes, millions.
but it concerns every country whatever period in history.


Igrok_ said:


> He didn't depend on people,


seems you've no idea how a State governed. Stalin depended on the people more than any other ruler did in history of mankind.
he needed soldiers, workers and peasants to defend and build the country.


Igrok_ said:


> In comarison with Lenin and Stalin even Hitler is a good man.


now i see, your a nazi, aren't you?


Igrok_ said:


> yep! and took their lifes and ruined families.


don't make up stories again, you would not fool anyone here.


----------



## sharik

Igrok_ said:


> Photo of the communist's document allowing death penalty for children:


ah here's where your hipocrisy & falsehood exposed in full... for some reason you failed to mention that this document concerns criminal activities like murder and violence where death sentence is absolutely justified; you also concealed the fact that the USSR had emerged from the chaos of The Civil War which left a lot of criminals (including gangs made of children) walking free, robbing and killing; so the issue called for being handled in the most drastic way.


----------



## Igrok_

sharik said:


> i meant surnames, of course.


Surnames? I am a bit tired to find them. If this law was accepted, there was the need in using it. 



sharik said:


> you wouldn't get jailed for 'way of thinking' back then and never.
> you had to belong to a group of corporate interests or be a criminal like murderer or rapist to do time that long.


Don't try to fool people. Everybody knows that people in USSR were killed not only because of "wrong thinking", but because of possibility of it! Just like of being relative to the one of the wrong social class (nobility or russian elite).


sharik said:


> if you count those who died natural death, like old age or desease, then yes, millions.
> but it concerns every country whatever period in history.


of course i do not count natural deaths.



sharik said:


> seems you've no idea how a State governed. Stalin depended on the people more than any other ruler did in history of mankind.
> he needed soldiers, workers and peasants to defend and build the country.


yep, and those who he "needed" were a small part of the whole russian people. That is why army was devastated by him before the war as like peasants and cossacks and priesthood.



sharik said:


> now i see, your a nazi, aren't you?


how can I identify what do you see? Do not know your fantasies. I'v heard that all that soviets are against to is "nazism". Mental disorder...


sharik said:


> don't make up stories again, you would not fool anyone here.


here? You hardly find here or there one more insane stalin's believer like you!


----------



## Igrok_

sharik said:


> concerns criminal activities like murder and violence where death sentence is absolutely justified


or as i said, for stalin and his adepts death penalty for children absolutely justified! 
Firtsly communists made the Civil War, secondary they justify killing children by this War. Hard to determine what is worse: the War made by them or continuing children's killings.


----------



## sharik

Igrok_ said:


> Everybody knows that people in USSR were killed not only because of "wrong thinking", but because of possibility of it!


well, all i can say is *you are a liar*.

i was born and lived in the USSR, and back then i was of anti-Soviet views, and nobody was jailed for 'thinking' there.


----------



## sharik

Igrok_ said:


> yep, and those who he "needed" were a small part of the whole russian people.


your not only a liar but also in denial.

workers, peasants & soldiers to serve a country as vast as Russia just cannot be a small part of the population.


----------



## sharik

Igrok_ said:


> Firtsly communists made the Civil War, secondary they justify killing children by this War.


ah there you go... wanna talk it?

okay let's talk.

you, anti-Russian trolls and sanctimonious hypocrites, don't you even dare try redistribute the blame for what happened in Russia 1917 and the resulting Civil War; as if you hated tsars and the Russian Monarchy any less than you hate Stalin and the USSR right now, eh? Russia Empire collapse was what you desired to happen. Britain, America and Germany were behind it and pulling strings. Stalin, Trotsky & Lenin, as of at the start of civil war, appeared to be British, US & German agents respectively; although there's no documented proof for it, but the followed post-war struggle for power among them or their clans might give a hint. Russia, now the USSR, was being introduced into world *geopolitics* on the level she had not experienced before - this explains all that happened under Stalin's rule.


----------



## anotherlife

sharik said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are degrees of it.
> 
> 
> 
> that's *hypocrisy* if so. Stalin was dealing with incomparably more complex issues than any ruler in world history; he had to build a country from scratch and create a new ruling elite in place of the annihilated one; he also built a *new model state* with completely different economy model than ever seen before; this was achieved amidst raging bureaucracy wars and sabotage; its just fantastic that he managed to accomplish that.
Click to expand...


It was not exactly that difficult.  It was no secret even before stalin's time, that you can implement anything if you kill enough people for it.  In fact, generally, in history, it is usually about a 50 % kill level which guarantees anything.  The ottomans did it, the English did it, even the ancient Romans did it, and the habsburgs did it too. Stalin just followed the recepie.  It was Lenin who assembled the infrastructure for it though, fully planning and anticipating every result of it.  There fore I think _Igrok is right, and Lenin outdid Stalin and all his contemporaries.


----------



## sharik

anotherlife said:


> It was not exactly that difficult.


not difficult if seen from hindsight but, at the moment, no one knew what the situation would turn out to be. Stalin didn't set killing people as a goal; on contrary, he tried to save as many as he could; thats why he resorted to Russian historical values and gave up Bolshevism, in order to *create*, not destroy.


----------



## guno

American_Jihad said:


> Comrade Stalin holding little mememe
> 
> *How Stalin Fooled the World and Why It Matters Today*​
> March 20, 2013
> By Daniel Greenfield
> 
> There are two ways that liberal historians usually look at Stalin. The most leftward of these is to see Stalin as a victim of German and American imperialism who struggled to maintain the peace in the face of aggressive expansionistic efforts by Nazi Germany and the United States.
> 
> Such a revisionist history would seem to have been thoroughly discredited in this day and age, despite its persistence in the early days of the Cold War, but it continues resurfacing, most recently in an Oliver Stone documentary series.
> 
> But for the most part, Khrushchevs disavowal of Stalin completed a process that began once the Soviet dictator cut a deal with Hitler, triggering a growing Destalinization cascade on the left. Stalinists still persisted in the West, but their influence on the authoring of history steadily diminished. Instead they embraced a different version of history that would salvage the ideological integrity of the left.
> 
> In this more conventional version of history, Stalin was not truly a Communist, but a non-ideological dictator who had seized control of the Soviet ship of state and transformed a promisingly progressive revolution into a backward feudal tyranny.
> 
> ...
> 
> This question, like so many of the others in Stalins Curse, remains applicable today. While Stalin is dead, there are many lesser Stalins like Morsi, small vicious men with an unlimited capacity for bloodshed and an even more unlimited ability to fool Western leaders into believing in their sincerity and goodness.
> 
> The negotiations that allowed Stalin to gobble up so many countries have been repeated again and again. And every time that diplomats call for a diplomatic solution in North Korea and Iran, we find ourselves back sitting across the table from Uncle Joe.
> 
> And that may be Stalins true curse.
> 
> How Stalin Fooled the World and Why It Matters Today


Quite evident you are an illiterate on soviet and Russian history and history of Europe in WWII ,and haven't actually  traveled to other parts of the world or spoke to people who lived and grew up their and then , but then again should be expected from the low educated hyper religious


----------



## anotherlife

sharik said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was not exactly that difficult.
> 
> 
> 
> not difficult if seen from hindsight but, at the moment, no one knew what the situation would turn out to be. Stalin didn't set killing people as a goal; on contrary, he tried to save as many as he could; thats why he resorted to Russian historical values and gave up Bolshevism, in order to *create*, not destroy.
Click to expand...

No, Stalin exploited historic Russian values in order to kill as many people as he could all around Russia, most famously in the Ukraine, but later in ww2 in Hungary and in Poland too.  He was clever, and he figured that that is the only way.  What makes you think that he had an interest in saving anyone?


----------



## Igrok_

anotherlife said:


> sharik said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was not exactly that difficult.
> 
> 
> 
> not difficult if seen from hindsight but, at the moment, no one knew what the situation would turn out to be. Stalin didn't set killing people as a goal; on contrary, he tried to save as many as he could; thats why he resorted to Russian historical values and gave up Bolshevism, in order to *create*, not destroy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, Stalin exploited historic Russian values in order to kill as many people as he could all around Russia, most famously in the Ukraine, but later in ww2 in Hungary and in Poland too.  He was clever, and he figured that that is the only way.  What makes you think that he had an interest in saving anyone?
Click to expand...

Futhermore, originally he was a murderer not as a politician, but in common sense. During his job in communist party in the early 20th century he was killing and robbing people as a member of a gang. All the communists - were more or less connected with criminal world, gangsters - were their allies as the class that had nothing to lose and most opposed to Russia.


----------



## anotherlife

Igrok_ said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sharik said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was not exactly that difficult.
> 
> 
> 
> not difficult if seen from hindsight but, at the moment, no one knew what the situation would turn out to be. Stalin didn't set killing people as a goal; on contrary, he tried to save as many as he could; thats why he resorted to Russian historical values and gave up Bolshevism, in order to *create*, not destroy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, Stalin exploited historic Russian values in order to kill as many people as he could all around Russia, most famously in the Ukraine, but later in ww2 in Hungary and in Poland too.  He was clever, and he figured that that is the only way.  What makes you think that he had an interest in saving anyone?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Futhermore, originally he was a murderer not as a politician, but in common sense. During his job in communist party in the early 20th century he was killing and robbing people as a member of a gang. All the communists - were more or less connected with criminal world, gangsters - were their allies as the class that had nothing to lose and most opposed to Russia.
Click to expand...

This makes sense, and fits well with the various historical records of manipulations during ww1.  In fact, it is even published, that the organizations that controlled Germany became the organizations that acquired control over Russia and the whole east Europe too, under the name Soviet Union, and it can be understood, that they needed these criminal circles, because average people would not give them the time of day.  Most famously, they shipped Lenin as cargo,  all the way from west Europe to Russia.


----------



## anotherlife

sharik said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was not exactly that difficult.
> 
> 
> 
> not difficult if seen from hindsight but, at the moment, no one knew what the situation would turn out to be. Stalin didn't set killing people as a goal; on contrary, he tried to save as many as he could; thats why he resorted to Russian historical values and gave up Bolshevism, in order to *create*, not destroy.
Click to expand...

I like creating too.  I agree, even dictators deserve a little creative love.  I think the best of stalins creations is the big nature reserve called Siberia.  Too bad, he then had to go and industrialize that too.  Do you know about 30 million pieces of it?  Half of those are women, and I wonder how they fare against western 300 pounders?


----------



## Igrok_

to me, there is one advantage of the soviet regime: since that in Russia very few people see world in the pink colour... If one looked back to imperial Russia, he would see its elite waving in its dreams about unrealistic world and so on. USSR was very realistic, it was all about realism, no place for dreams, except some scientific one.

That is what I like there. However, even people were considered as a simple resource...


----------



## anotherlife

Igrok_ said:


> to me, there is one advantage of the soviet regime: since that in Russia very few people see world in the pink colour... If one looked back to imperial Russia, he would see its elite waving in its dreams about unrealistic world and so on. USSR was very realistic, it was all about realism, no place for dreams, except some scientific one.
> 
> That is what I like there. However, even people were considered as a simple resource...


Very puzzling about the Soviet Union is that it opposed nation states in Europe originally.  Then by ww2, it itself engaged in the creation of new nation states such as e.g. Czechoslovakia, for the express purpose of starting nationalistic conflicts.  This is interesting.


----------



## sharik

anotherlife said:


> No, Stalin exploited historic Russian values in order to kill as many people as he could all around Russia,


sorry, but that sounds absurd and pertains to fairy-tales, not to discussion by adults.


anotherlife said:


> What makes you think that he had an interest in saving anyone?


because in that he saved himself too, and also, any ruler wants his country and its peoples be in an ok shape, otherwise why even try become one.


----------



## sharik

anotherlife said:


> Very puzzling about the Soviet Union is that it opposed nation states in Europe originally.


you might not know, but there was at least 3 Soviet Unions, each having nothing to do with one another; same about Lenin (there was 2 Lenins) and Stalin (there was 3 Stalins) - to get all this, you should carefully follow the timeline, which you don't (for lack of education probably, which is not your fault though).


----------



## anotherlife

sharik said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, Stalin exploited historic Russian values in order to kill as many people as he could all around Russia,
> 
> 
> 
> sorry, but that sounds absurd and pertains to fairy-tales, not to discussion by adults.
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think that he had an interest in saving anyone?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> because in that he saved himself too, and also, any ruler wants his country and its peoples be in an ok shape, otherwise why even try become one.
Click to expand...


Not if the ruler works for others, outside his country. 



sharik said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very puzzling about the Soviet Union is that it opposed nation states in Europe originally.
> 
> 
> 
> you might not know, but there was at least 3 Soviet Unions, each having nothing to do with one another; same about Lenin (there was 2 Lenins) and Stalin (there was 3 Stalins) - to get all this, you should carefully follow the timeline, which you don't (for lack of education probably, which is not your fault though).
Click to expand...


3 Soviet Unions, 2 Lenins, and 3 Stalins?  And you have nothing to explain this with ....


----------



## sharik

anotherlife said:


> 3 Soviet Unions, 2 Lenins, and 3 Stalins?  And you have nothing to explain this with ....


and why should i? you can do your own research (which i doubt though because you already failed to see what's on the surface of it all). USSR 1 - a revolutionary state of the 1920s to spread the Revolution worldwide. USSR 2 - a counter revolutionary state of the 1930/40s to curb the world revolution. USSR 3 - a state to abandon Communism and go Capitalist in the late 1980s & early 1991s. Lenin 1 - a terrorist, as of before 1917, to destroy everything he sees. Lenin 2 - the chairman of a new model state, to rebuild everything destroyed & build even more. Stalin 1&2 - same as Lenin's. Stalin 3 - the Henry Ford of Soviet Union, in many respects.


----------



## anotherlife

sharik said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 3 Soviet Unions, 2 Lenins, and 3 Stalins?  And you have nothing to explain this with ....
> 
> 
> 
> and why should i? you can do your own research (which i doubt though because you already failed to see what's on the surface of it all). USSR 1 - a revolutionary state of the 1920s to spread the Revolution worldwide. USSR 2 - a counter revolutionary state of the 1930/40s to curb the world revolution. USSR 3 - a state to abandon Communism and go Capitalist in the late 1980s & early 1991s. Lenin 1 - a terrorist, as of before 1917, to destroy everything he sees. Lenin 2 - the chairman of a new model state, to rebuild everything destroyed & build even more. Stalin 1&2 - same as Lenin's. Stalin 3 - the Henry Ford of Soviet Union, in many respects.
Click to expand...

Very interesting.  I guess no wonder that the Russians know more than most, that it is not good to experiment on people.


----------



## sharik

anotherlife said:


> Very interesting.  I guess no wonder that the Russians know more than most,



regrettably, they don't and it takes some effort to point out the obvious for them.



anotherlife said:


> that it is not good to experiment on people.



not good indeed, but it rather was an experiment in *geopolitics*.


----------



## anotherlife

sharik said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very interesting.  I guess no wonder that the Russians know more than most,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regrettably, they don't and it takes some effort to point out the obvious for them.
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> that it is not good to experiment on people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> not good indeed, but it rather was an experiment in *geopolitics*.
Click to expand...

I guess the result of that experiment is then that it may be very difficult for a single belligerent to eradicate a nation or ethnic group, but with international support it is easy and can be repeated on many.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Igrok_ said:


> Photo of the communist's document allowing death penalty for children:


This is very horrific and reveals the extreme evil Stalin was known for.  The forced starvation of over 10 million men, women and children in the Ukraine was also the evil plan of Stalin.  His daughter said he had an art picture of Satan on his bedroom wall.  It is likely that Stalin was a Satanist.  Stalin was a very wicked, evil man....  The people of Russia should be told these things and the stories of those who survived Ukraine forced starvation by Stalin - must keep those stories alive by telling their grandchildren, great grandchildren and telling them to do the same.  Photographs should be kept, these kind of documents, everything that will teach the next generation the sickness of Communism and it's fathers, Marx, Lenin, Stalin.... a succession of evil men which only grew worse....


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Igrok_ said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sharik said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was not exactly that difficult.
> 
> 
> 
> not difficult if seen from hindsight but, at the moment, no one knew what the situation would turn out to be. Stalin didn't set killing people as a goal; on contrary, he tried to save as many as he could; thats why he resorted to Russian historical values and gave up Bolshevism, in order to *create*, not destroy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, Stalin exploited historic Russian values in order to kill as many people as he could all around Russia, most famously in the Ukraine, but later in ww2 in Hungary and in Poland too.  He was clever, and he figured that that is the only way.  What makes you think that he had an interest in saving anyone?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Futhermore, originally he was a murderer not as a politician, but in common sense. During his job in communist party in the early 20th century he was killing and robbing people as a member of a gang. All the communists - were more or less connected with criminal world, gangsters - were their allies as the class that had nothing to lose and most opposed to Russia.
Click to expand...

Reminds you of Vladimir Putin, doesn't it?


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

sharik said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, Stalin exploited historic Russian values in order to kill as many people as he could all around Russia,
> 
> 
> 
> sorry, but that sounds absurd and pertains to fairy-tales, not to discussion by adults.
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think that he had an interest in saving anyone?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> because in that he saved himself too, and also, any ruler wants his country and its peoples be in an ok shape, otherwise why even try become one.
Click to expand...

Stalin was a mass murderer and a madman.  His name and his memory should be cursed by the people of Russia.  He is paying in hell now for all those he murdered.


----------



## yiostheoy

Jeremiah said:


> Reminds you of Vladimir Putin, doesn't it?


No it does not.

Putin was specifically drafted out of the KGB by the Russian intelligentsia surrounding Yeltsin and identified as someone whom they could trust to keep a deal.  The deal was that Yeltsin was not to be prosecuted after his retirement.

Then Putin was made into a hero with a planned or staged attack on Chechnya.

Putin was an ordinary civil servant in the KGB until drafted.

Nothing like Stalin.

Putin reminds me of Adolf Hitler -- grabbing land one piece at a time.

The only significant difference however is that the CIA provoked him in the Ukraine.

So he must have perceived that the USA was no longer a friend of Russia.

This was apparently a CIA screw up under BHO.  I cannot imagine it as a legacy issue from GW Bush, although I can't say for certain.


----------



## yiostheoy

Jeremiah said:


> sharik said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, Stalin exploited historic Russian values in order to kill as many people as he could all around Russia,
> 
> 
> 
> sorry, but that sounds absurd and pertains to fairy-tales, not to discussion by adults.
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think that he had an interest in saving anyone?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> because in that he saved himself too, and also, any ruler wants his country and its peoples be in an ok shape, otherwise why even try become one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stalin was a mass murderer and a madman.  His name and his memory should be cursed by the people of Russia.  He is paying in hell now for all those he murdered.
Click to expand...

How do you know so much about Hell ??

Have you been there and back again ??

Are you an eye witness ??


----------



## yiostheoy

American_Jihad said:


> Comrade Stalin holding little mememe
> 
> *How Stalin Fooled the World and Why It Matters Today*​
> March 20, 2013
> By Daniel Greenfield
> 
> There are two ways that liberal historians usually look at Stalin. The most leftward of these is to see Stalin as a victim of German and American imperialism who struggled to maintain the peace in the face of aggressive expansionistic efforts by Nazi Germany and the United States.
> 
> Such a revisionist history would seem to have been thoroughly discredited in this day and age, despite its persistence in the early days of the Cold War, but it continues resurfacing, most recently in an Oliver Stone documentary series.
> 
> But for the most part, Khrushchevs disavowal of Stalin completed a process that began once the Soviet dictator cut a deal with Hitler, triggering a growing Destalinization cascade on the left. Stalinists still persisted in the West, but their influence on the authoring of history steadily diminished. Instead they embraced a different version of history that would salvage the ideological integrity of the left.
> 
> In this more conventional version of history, Stalin was not truly a Communist, but a non-ideological dictator who had seized control of the Soviet ship of state and transformed a promisingly progressive revolution into a backward feudal tyranny.
> 
> ...
> 
> This question, like so many of the others in Stalins Curse, remains applicable today. While Stalin is dead, there are many lesser Stalins like Morsi, small vicious men with an unlimited capacity for bloodshed and an even more unlimited ability to fool Western leaders into believing in their sincerity and goodness.
> 
> The negotiations that allowed Stalin to gobble up so many countries have been repeated again and again. And every time that diplomats call for a diplomatic solution in North Korea and Iran, we find ourselves back sitting across the table from Uncle Joe.
> 
> And that may be Stalins true curse.
> 
> How Stalin Fooled the World and Why It Matters Today


This is a really old thread of several years ago.

Why did you resurrect it ??

Does Stalin remind you of Trump ??

Trump is actually more similar to Hitler and he apparently studies his speeches as well.

In his delivery however Trump is more similar to Mussolini.


----------



## yiostheoy

Jeremiah said:


> This is very horrific and reveals the extreme evil Stalin was known for.  The forced starvation of over 10 million men, women and children in the Ukraine was also the evil plan of Stalin.  His daughter said he had an art picture of Satan on his bedroom wall.  It is likely that Stalin was a Satanist.  Stalin was a very wicked, evil man....  The people of Russia should be told these things and the stories of those who survived Ukraine forced starvation by Stalin - must keep those stories alive by telling their grandchildren, great grandchildren and telling them to do the same.  Photographs should be kept, these kind of documents, everything that will teach the next generation the sickness of Communism and it's fathers, Marx, Lenin, Stalin.... a succession of evil men which only grew worse....


The most horrific thing to me is the power of your brainwashing.

You should do some studying of the Romanov's and their neglect of the Russian people in the throws of WW1.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

yiostheoy said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reminds you of Vladimir Putin, doesn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> No it does not.
> 
> Putin was specifically drafted out of the KGB by the Russian intelligentsia surrounding Yeltsin and identified as someone whom they could trust to keep a deal.  The deal was that Yeltsin was not to be prosecuted after his retirement.
> 
> Then Putin was made into a hero with a planned or staged attack on Chechnya.
> 
> Putin was an ordinary civil servant in the KGB until drafted.
> 
> Nothing like Stalin.
Click to expand...


I disagree. I have read the history of his early days and it does not match the version you are telling here.  I also know of the testimony of his beating his wife and cheating on her. The story was first published in Germany I believe and it spoke volumes about the character of Putin.  Add to this the poisoning of Litvinenko and the journalists who have also reportedly been assassinated by Putin.  This is no ordinary civil servant as you imply.  This is a sociopath criminal murderer we're talking about.  The evidence is overwhelming.






Litvinenko: Not first Putin critic to end up dead - CNN.com

Former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko wasn't the first critic of President Vladimir Putin to turn up dead -- or the last.

Some Putin opponents claim it isn't a coincidence that critics of the powerful leader and his government have been killed or landed behind bars. But the Kremlin has staunchly denied accusations that it's targeting political opponents or had anything to do with the deaths.
Here's a look at some cases of outspoken critics of Putin's government who've ended up in exile, under house arrest, behind bars or killed.
*Mikhail Khodorkovsky*
The business magnate backed an opposition party and accused Putin of corruption.
He spent more than 10 years behind bars on charges of tax evasion and fraud.

*Anna Politkovskaya*
She was a vocal critic of Russia's war in Chechnya. Her home was a safe place, until it became the scene of her murder.
She was shot four times at the entrance of her Moscow apartment in October 2006.
Last year, a Moscow court sentenced five men to prison for the killing.
Authorities alleged that an unidentified man asked Lom-Ali Gaitukayev, whom the jury found was a mastermind of the slaying, to kill Politkovskaya in exchange for $150,000 because of her reports of human rights violations and other issues, the Moscow city court said.
The New York-based Committee to Protect Journalists said her work chronicling human rights abuses in Chechnya led to threats against her and angered Russian authorities.
Shortly after her death, Putin denied any Kremlin involvement in her killing, saying that Politkovskaya's "death in itself is more damaging to the current authorities both in Russia and the Chechen Republic ... than her activities."

*Alexander Litvinenko*
The former Russian agent was poisoned by a lethal dose of radioactive polonium, his tea spiked in a London hotel during a meeting with two former Russian security servicemen.
After leaving the Russian Federal Security Service, he blamed the agency for orchestrating a series of apartment bombings in Russia in 1999 that left hundreds dead and led to Russia's invasion of Chechnya later that year.






UK inquiry into former KGB spy's death opens 02:19
In a statement from his deathbed in London in November 2006, he said he had no doubt about who was to blame for his imminent death.
"You may succeed in silencing me, but that silence comes at a price," Litvinenko said at the time. "You may succeed in silencing one man, but the howl of protest from around the world will reverberate, Mr. Putin, in your ears for the rest of your life."

*Anastasia Baburova and Stanislav Markelov*
In January 2009, a masked man shot and killed Markelov, a Russian human rights lawyer known for his work on abuses by the Russian military in Chechnya.
The gunman also shot Baburova, a journalist from Russia's Novaya Gazeta newspaper, when she tried to intervene.
Markelov was known for his work on high-profile cases. He represented the family of a Chechen woman killed by a former Russian colonel in March 2000.
He held a news conference hours before his death opposing the early release of Col. Yury Budanov, who had been convicted of strangling a Chechen teenage girl and was freed after serving eight years of a 10-year sentence.
At the time, Novaya Gazeta Editor-in-Chief Dmitry Muratov suggested that Baburova was killed when she tried to stop the lawyer's killer, but he said he couldn't dismiss the possibility that she was also a target.

*Natalya Estemirova*
The Chechnya-based human rights activist was kidnapped outside her home there in July 2009 and found dead in the neighboring Russian republic of Ingushetia later the same day.


*Saakashvili: Nemtsov 'one of many' that have died 02:41
Her body was riddled with bullets, Russian prosecutors said -- several shots to the abdomen, and one to the head.

Estemirova had spent years investigating human rights abuses in Chechnya.
She told CNN in 2007 that she was investigating dozens of abductions and murders that had become the norm in Chechnya, where security forces were fighting a dirty war against separatist rebels.

The head of the group Estemirova worked for, Memorial, accuses the Kremlin-backed Chechen leadership of ordering her killing.
Her death drew the ire of European leaders.

"How many more Natalya Estemirovas and Anna Politkovskayas must be killed before the Russian authorities protect people who stand up for the human rights of Russian citizens?" Terry Davis, then the Council of Europe secretary general, said at the time.

The Guardian reported shortly after Estemirova's death that Chechen President Ramzan Kadyrov and his aides had threatened her.

Kadyrov denied involvement in her killing, calling it a "monstrous crime" that was carried out to discredit his government.*
*Boris Berezovsky*


*Boris Berezovsky is murdered.......*

*



*

*Russian exile's death spurs conspiracies 03:11*
*The powerful Russian businessman's falling-out with his government left him self-exiled in England.*
*Berezovsky accused the Kremlin of killing Litvinenko.*
*And for years, he bankrolled the effort of Litvinenko's widow to push for an inquest into her husband's death.*
*In 2013, he was found dead inside his house with a noose around his neck.*
*Was it a suicide? The coroner's office said it could not say.*
*In 2013, during a phone call to a television show, Putin said he could not rule out that foreign secret services had a role in Berezovsky's death. However, he added that there was no evidence of this.*

*_________*
*Truth goes through 3 stages.  1st it is laughed at - denied  2 nd it is violently opposed  3rd It becomes self-evident. *
*We can look at the story of these victims and there appears to be one common denominator.  What is that?  That Putin is not nor was he ever some ordinary civil servant.  Your claim has no basis in reality, Yio.  NONE*


*Anna Politkovskaya, a vocal critic of Russia's war in Chechnya, was shot four times in front of her Moscow apartment in 2006. A Moscow court sentenced five men to prison in 2014 for her death.*

*Human rights activist Natalya Estemirova was kidnapped outside her Chechnya home in July 2009 and was found dead later the same day. The head of the group Estemirova worked for, Memorial, accused the Kremlin-backed Chechen leadership of ordering her killing.*
*Hide Caption*
*7 of 8*

*Photos: Critics of Putin*
*Russian human rights lawyer Stanislav Markelov, left, represented the family of a Chechen woman killed by a former Russian colonel in March 2000. He was shot in 2009. The gunman also killed Anastasia Baburova, right, who may have been trying to intervene.*

*Some Putin opponents claim it isn't a coincidence that critics of the powerful leader and his government have been killed or landed behind bars. But the Kremlin has staunchly denied accusations that it's targeting political opponents or had anything to do with the deaths.*
*Here's a look at some cases of outspoken critics of Putin's government who've ended up in exile, under house arrest, behind bars or killed.*
*Mikhail Khodorkovsky*

*The business magnate backed an opposition party and accused Putin of corruption.*
*He spent more than 10 years behind bars on charges of tax evasion and fraud.*
*Russia's history of mysterious murders...*

*In statements to CNN, Khodorkovsky said his prosecution was part of a Kremlin campaign to destroy him and take control of Yukos, the oil company he built from privatization deals in the 1990s.*

*The Kremlin denied the accusation. At the time of Khodorkovsky's sentencing, the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement that "allegations about some kind of selective prosecution in Russia are groundless. Russian courts deal with thousands of cases where entrepreneurs are prosecuted."**She was a vocal critic of Russia's war in Chechnya. Her home was a safe place, until it became the scene of her murder.*
*She was shot four times at the entrance of her Moscow apartment in October 2006.*
*Last year, a Moscow court sentenced five men to prison for the killing.*
*Authorities alleged that an unidentified man asked Lom-Ali Gaitukayev, whom the jury found was a mastermind of the slaying, to kill Politkovskaya in exchange for $150,000 because of her reports of human rights violations and other issues, the Moscow city court said.*

*The New York-based Committee to Protect Journalists said her work chronicling human rights abuses in Chechnya led to threats against her and angered Russian authorities*
*.*
*Shortly after her death, Putin denied any Kremlin involvement in her killing, saying that Politkovskaya's "death in itself is more damaging to the current authorities both in Russia and the Chechen Republic ... than her activities."*


*Alexander Litvinenko*
*The former Russian agent was poisoned by a lethal dose of radioactive polonium, his tea spiked in a London hotel during a meeting with two former Russian security servicemen.*
*After leaving the Russian Federal Security Service, he blamed the agency for orchestrating a series of apartment bombings in Russia in 1999 that left hundreds dead and led to Russia's invasion of Chechnya later that year.*

*



*

*UK inquiry into former KGB spy's death opens 02:19*

*In a statement from his deathbed in London in November 2006, he said he had no doubt about who was to blame for his imminent death.*
*"You may succeed in silencing me, but that silence comes at a price," Litvinenko said at the time. "You may succeed in silencing one man, but the howl of protest from around the world will reverberate, Mr. Putin, in your ears for the rest of your life."*
*Officials have always dismissed the accusation as "nonsense," but suspicions linger.*
*A Russian federal intelligence service spokesman went as far as to say that Moscow had not carried out any "physical liquidation of unwelcome personalities" since the Soviet era.*
*The two prime suspects in the poisoning, Andrei Lugavoi and Dmitry Kovtun, are Russian nationals. Both are former agents of the Russian security services. But both deny involvement, and the Russian government refuses to extradite either to Britain to face trial.*
*Anastasia Baburova and Stanislav Markelov[/paste:font]*
*In January 2009, a masked man shot and killed Markelov, a Russian human rights lawyer known for his work on abuses by the Russian military in Chechnya.*
*The gunman also shot Baburova, a journalist from Russia's Novaya Gazeta newspaper, when she tried to intervene.*
*Markelov was known for his work on high-profile cases. He represented the family of a Chechen woman killed by a former Russian colonel in March 2000.*
*He held a news conference hours before his death opposing the early release of Col. Yury Budanov, who had been convicted of strangling a Chechen teenage girl and was freed after serving eight years of a 10-year sentence.*
*At the time, Novaya Gazeta Editor-in-Chief Dmitry Muratov suggested that Baburova was killed when she tried to stop the lawyer's killer, but he said he couldn't dismiss the possibility that she was also a target.*
*Russian authorities said members of a neo-Nazi group were behind the killings, and two neo-Nazis were convicted for the deaths.*
*Natalya Estemirova*
*The Chechnya-based human rights activist was kidnapped outside her home there in July 2009 and found dead in the neighboring Russian republic of Ingushetia later the same day.*

*



*
*Saakashvili: Nemtsov 'one of many' that have died 02:41*

*Her body was riddled with bullets, Russian prosecutors said -- several shots to the abdomen, and one to the head.*
*Estemirova had spent years investigating human rights abuses in Chechnya.*
*She told CNN in 2007 that she was investigating dozens of abductions and murders that had become the norm in Chechnya, where security forces were fighting a dirty war against separatist rebels.*
*The head of the group Estemirova worked for, Memorial, accuses the Kremlin-backed Chechen leadership of ordering her killing.*
*Her death drew the ire of European leaders.*
*"How many more Natalya Estemirovas and Anna Politkovskayas must be killed before the Russian authorities protect people who stand up for the human rights of Russian citizens?" Terry Davis, then the Council of Europe secretary general, said at the time.*
*The Guardian reported shortly after Estemirova's death that Chechen President Ramzan Kadyrov and his aides had threatened her.*
*Kadyrov denied involvement in her killing, calling it a "monstrous crime" that was carried out to discredit his government.*
*Boris Berezovsky[/paste:font]*

*



*
*Russian exile's death spurs conspiracies 03:11*

*The powerful Russian businessman's falling-out with his government left him self-exiled in England.*
*Berezovsky accused the Kremlin of killing Litvinenko.*
*And for years, he bankrolled the effort of Litvinenko's widow to push for an inquest into her husband's death.*
*In 2013, he was found dead inside his house with a noose around his neck.*
*Was it a suicide? The coroner's office said it could not say.*
*In 2013, during a phone call to a television show, Putin said he could not rule out that foreign secret services had a role in Berezovsky's death. However, he added that there was no evidence of this.*


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

yiostheoy said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is very horrific and reveals the extreme evil Stalin was known for.  The forced starvation of over 10 million men, women and children in the Ukraine was also the evil plan of Stalin.  His daughter said he had an art picture of Satan on his bedroom wall.  It is likely that Stalin was a Satanist.  Stalin was a very wicked, evil man....  The people of Russia should be told these things and the stories of those who survived Ukraine forced starvation by Stalin - must keep those stories alive by telling their grandchildren, great grandchildren and telling them to do the same.  Photographs should be kept, these kind of documents, everything that will teach the next generation the sickness of Communism and it's fathers, Marx, Lenin, Stalin.... a succession of evil men which only grew worse....
> 
> 
> 
> The most horrific thing to me is the power of your brainwashing.
> 
> You should do some studying of the Romanov's and their neglect of the Russian people in the throws of WW1.
Click to expand...

It is you who have been brainwashed, Yio.  You say that you believe Putin was chosen because he was just an ordinary civil servant?  Do you seriously believe that?  Your claims about Putin have no basis in reality, Yio.  Putin is a sociopath and a murderer - cut from the same cloth as Stalin.  You are proud of what you should be covering your face in shame for.  To call evil good and good evil is a sin.





Litvinenko: Not first Putin critic to end up dead - CNN.com
The former Russian agent was poisoned by a lethal dose of radioactive polonium, his tea spiked in a London hotel during a meeting with two former Russian security servicemen.
After leaving the Russian Federal Security Service, he blamed the agency for orchestrating a series of apartment bombings in Russia in 1999 that left hundreds dead and led to Russia's invasion of Chechnya later that year.





UK inquiry into former KGB spy's death opens 02:19
In a statement from his deathbed in London in November 2006, he said he had no doubt about who was to blame for his imminent death.
"You may succeed in silencing me, but that silence comes at a price," Litvinenko said at the time. "You may succeed in silencing one man, but the howl of protest from around the world will reverberate, Mr. Putin, in your ears for the rest of your life."
_________
Yes, it will because the righteous speak up for the dead and will not forget their names.  The wicked defend murderers like Vladimir Putin because they are cowards who have not the courage to speak out against evil and defend those who cannot speak up for themselves.


----------



## yiostheoy

Jeremiah said:


> yiostheoy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is very horrific and reveals the extreme evil Stalin was known for.  The forced starvation of over 10 million men, women and children in the Ukraine was also the evil plan of Stalin.  His daughter said he had an art picture of Satan on his bedroom wall.  It is likely that Stalin was a Satanist.  Stalin was a very wicked, evil man....  The people of Russia should be told these things and the stories of those who survived Ukraine forced starvation by Stalin - must keep those stories alive by telling their grandchildren, great grandchildren and telling them to do the same.  Photographs should be kept, these kind of documents, everything that will teach the next generation the sickness of Communism and it's fathers, Marx, Lenin, Stalin.... a succession of evil men which only grew worse....
> 
> 
> 
> The most horrific thing to me is the power of your brainwashing.
> 
> You should do some studying of the Romanov's and their neglect of the Russian people in the throws of WW1.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is you who have been brainwashed, Yio.  You say that you believe Putin was chosen because he was just an ordinary civil servant?  Do you seriously believe that?  Your claims about Putin have no basis in reality, Yio.  Putin is a sociopath and a murderer - cut from the same cloth as Stalin.  You are proud of what you should be covering your face in shame for.  To call evil good and good evil is a sin.
> 
> Litvinenko: Not first Putin critic to end up dead - CNN.com
Click to expand...

Actually I respect Putin.

He justifiably does not trust the USA because of the CIA.

I can't believe that after all of BHO's peace hippy talk to get elected he ended up sending the CIA into Ukraine !!!

And I can't believe how gullible you are to whomever is brainwashing you.

Good bye.  I can't risk you b!tching to the mods if I tell you what I really think.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

yiostheoy said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yiostheoy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is very horrific and reveals the extreme evil Stalin was known for.  The forced starvation of over 10 million men, women and children in the Ukraine was also the evil plan of Stalin.  His daughter said he had an art picture of Satan on his bedroom wall.  It is likely that Stalin was a Satanist.  Stalin was a very wicked, evil man....  The people of Russia should be told these things and the stories of those who survived Ukraine forced starvation by Stalin - must keep those stories alive by telling their grandchildren, great grandchildren and telling them to do the same.  Photographs should be kept, these kind of documents, everything that will teach the next generation the sickness of Communism and it's fathers, Marx, Lenin, Stalin.... a succession of evil men which only grew worse....
> 
> 
> 
> The most horrific thing to me is the power of your brainwashing.
> 
> You should do some studying of the Romanov's and their neglect of the Russian people in the throws of WW1.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is you who have been brainwashed, Yio.  You say that you believe Putin was chosen because he was just an ordinary civil servant?  Do you seriously believe that?  Your claims about Putin have no basis in reality, Yio.  Putin is a sociopath and a murderer - cut from the same cloth as Stalin.  You are proud of what you should be covering your face in shame for.  To call evil good and good evil is a sin.
> 
> Litvinenko: Not first Putin critic to end up dead - CNN.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually I respect Putin.
> 
> He justifiably does not trust the USA because of the CIA.
> 
> I can't believe that after all of BHO's peace hippy talk to get elected he ended up sending the CIA into Ukraine !!!
> 
> And I can't believe how gullible you are to whomever is brainwashing you.
> 
> Good bye.  I can't risk you b!tching to the mods if I tell you what I really think.
Click to expand...

Of course you respect Putin.  You're with him. What does that say about you other than that you will one day burn in hell for your deception, lies, and complicity with evil?  Your defending your Motherland and feigning outrage at Obama all while knowing that your own leader has the blood of the Russian people blood on his hands.  Lots of blood.  

You, Stratford, Tehon..... all the same - while working different angles of deceit.. but a lie is a lie is a lie... and that is all there is to that. 

You three are wicked.  If you fear God? You'll repent and call upon the Lord to be saved.  If you do not repent, you will be rewarded according to the works of your own hands and ultimately find yourselves in hell one day.


----------



## guno

yiostheoy said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is very horrific and reveals the extreme evil Stalin was known for.  The forced starvation of over 10 million men, women and children in the Ukraine was also the evil plan of Stalin.  His daughter said he had an art picture of Satan on his bedroom wall.  It is likely that Stalin was a Satanist.  Stalin was a very wicked, evil man....  The people of Russia should be told these things and the stories of those who survived Ukraine forced starvation by Stalin - must keep those stories alive by telling their grandchildren, great grandchildren and telling them to do the same.  Photographs should be kept, these kind of documents, everything that will teach the next generation the sickness of Communism and it's fathers, Marx, Lenin, Stalin.... a succession of evil men which only grew worse....
> 
> 
> 
> The most horrific thing to me is the power of your brainwashing.
> 
> You should do some studying of the Romanov's and their neglect of the Russian people in the throws of WW1.
Click to expand...




yiostheoy said:


> Romanov's



And the czars pogroms against the Jews, thankfully the Reds had the entire bunch shot so their would be no  more of them


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

http://www.hourofthetime.com/1-LF/Hour_Of_The_Time_08122012-Marx_and_Satan.pdf

"The Organization "Hell"

Communists have a habit of creating front organizations. All of the above suggests the probability that Communist movements are themselves front organizations for occult Satanism. The means to fight Satanism are spiritual, not carnal; otherwise, while one Satanist front organization, such as nazism, is defeated, another will rise to greater victory.

Himmler, the minister of interior affairs of Nazi Germany, thought himself to be King Henry the Fowler's reincarnation. He believed that it was possible to harness occult powers to serve the Nazi army. Several Nazi leaders were involved in black magic. What was mere supposition when I published the first edition of this present book is now a proven fact.

The proof has been given by the Communists themselves. The story begins with the Netchaiev case, which prompted Dostoyevski to write his renowned novel The Demons. Netchaiev, called a "splendid, young fanatic" by Bakunin, Marx's collaborator in founding the First International, wrote The Catechism o f the Revolutionist as the guide for the Russian organization "Popular Revenge."

It appeared around 1870. The purpose of this organization was formulated as follows. Our cause is terrible, complete, universal, and pitiless destruction.... Let us unite with the savage, criminal world, these true and only revolutionists of Russia. The first man the Netchaiev group killed was one of their founding comrades, Ivanov, who dared to criticize his leadership.

No criticism was permitted. Netchaiev's plan was to divide mankind into two unequal parts. One tenth gets personal liberty аnd unlimited rights over the other nine tenths. These must lose their personality and turn into a kind of herd. They will engage in spy work. Each member of society will spy on the other and will be obliged to denounce.... All are slaves аnd are equal in slavery.

Netchaiev wrote in his Catechism: A revolutionist must infiltrate everywhere, in the upper and lower classes ... in churches ... in literature. 59 His disciple Peter Verhovensky commented: We are already terribly powerful.... Jurors who acquit criminals are completely ours. The district attorney who trembles in courts not to be considered liberal enough is ours. Administrators, men of letters, we are many, very many, and they don't know they belong to us. On the basis of such a program an organization with an impressive name was formed - the World Revolutionist League.

Its constitution was signed by Netchaiev and Bakunin, Marx's intimate collaborator. In the beginning the League consisted of only a handful of men. The revolutionist Duke Peter Dolgorukov wrote on October 31, 1862: In London I met Kelsiev (who belonged to the above organization), a narrowminded but good man, terribly fanatical, with the face of a soft man. Kelsiev told me softly, with a benevolent look: "If we have to slaughter, why not slaughter, provided this is useful?" ... All these London men speak continually about "burning down, slaughtering, cutting in pieces."

These words have never left their tongue since Bakunin came to England... In 1869, in Geneva, Netchaiev wrote a proclamation in which, referring to the man who shot Emperor Alexander II, he advises: We must consider what Karakazov did as prologue. Yes, this was a prologue. Let us see to it that the drama itself begins soon. Another proclamation says, Soon, soon the day comes when we will unfurl the great flag of the future, the Red flag, and we will attack with great noise the Imperial palace... We will have one shout, "To the axes!" and then we will kill the party of the emperor.

Do not pity.... Kill in pub is places if these base rascals dare to enter them, kill in houses, kill in villages. Remember, those who will not side with us will be against us. Whoever is against us is our enemy. And we must destroy enemies by all means. In 1872, a revolutionary society was formed under the simple name "The Organization," which had a super-secret circle chillingly called "Hell."

Though its goals have continued to be pursued for well over a century by groups which continually change their names, its existence has been unknown to the outside world. Soviet historians have dared to write about the activities of "Hell," a forerunner of the Russian Communist Party, only as recently as 1965, ninety-three years after its formation. 60 In Revolutionist Underground in Russia, E. S. Vilenskaia wrote: "Hell" was the name of the center above the secret organization, which not only used terror against the monarchy, but also had punitive functions toward the members of the secret organization. 

In Tchernishevsky or Netchaiev we read that one of the members (Fediseev) of "Hell" took it upon himself to poison his own father in order to give the organization his inheritance. Tchernishevsky, who belonged to this movement, wrote, I'll participate in revolution; I am not frightened by dirt, by drunkards with sticks, by slaughter. We don't care if we have to shed thrice as much food as the rebels in the French revolution. So what if we had to kill a hundred thousand farmers?

Here are some of the expressed aims of this Satanic organization: Mystification is the best, almost the only means to impel men to make a revolution. It is enough to kill a few million people and the wheels of revolution will be oiled. Our ideal is awful, complete, universal, and pitiless destruction. And again: Mankind must be divided into two unequal parts. One tenth receives personal liberty and unlimited rights over the other nine tenths. The latter must lose their personality and become a kind of herd. In their writings we constantly find the words, "We are not afraid."

A typical example is the following proclamation: We are not afraid that we might find out three times more food will have to be shed for the overthrow of the existing order than the Jacobins (French revolutionists) had to shed in their revolution in 1790.... If for the fulfillment of our objectives we had to slaughter one hundred thousand landlords, we would not be afraid of this either. In reality, the number of victims was much greater.

Churchill says in his Memoirs of World War II that Stalin confessed that ten million people died as a result of the collectivization of agriculture in the Soviet Union. The important fact to remember is that the Communists have now confessed, after a delay of almost a hundred years, that at the inception of their movement was a circle called "Hell." Why "Hell"? Why not "The Society for the Betterment of the Poor" or "…of Mankind"?

Why the stark emphasis on hell? Today the Communists are more cautious. But in the beginning their very name revealed that their avowed aim was to recruit men for eternal damnation.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Stalin was a Satanist even as Karl Marx was a Satanist.......

http://www.hourofthetime.com/1-LF/Hour_Of_The_Time_08122012-Marx_and_Satan.pdf

Eventually Marx claims not to even admit the existence of a Creator. Incredibly, he maintained that mankind shaped itself. He wrote, Seeing that for the Socialist man all of so-called world history is nothing other than the creation of man through human work, than the development of nature for man, he has the incontestable proof of his being born from himself.... The criticism of religion ends with the teaching that man is the supreme being for man. 

When no Creator is acknowledged, there is no one to give us commandments, or to whom we are accountable. Marx confirms this by stating, "Communists preach absolutely no morals." When the Soviets in their early years adopted the slogan, "Let us drive out the capitalists from earth and God from heaven," they were merely fulfilling the legacy of Karl Marx. 

One of the peculiarities of hack magic, as mentioned earlier, is the inversion of names. Inversions in general so permeated Marx's whole manner of thinking that he used them throughout. He answered Proudhon's book The Philosophy of Misery with another book entitled The Misery of Philosophy. 

He also wrote, "We have to use instead of the weapon of criticism, the criticism of weapons." Here are further examples of Marx’s use of inversion in his writing: Let us seek the enigma of the Jew not in his religion, but rather let us seek the enigma of his religion in the real Jew. 

Luther broke the faith in authority, because he restored the authority of faith. He changed the priests into laymen, because he changed the laymen into priests. Marx used this technique in many places. He used what could be called typical Satanist style. 

Shifting gears somewhat, men usually wore beards in Marx's time, but not beards like his, and they did not have long hair. Marx's manner and appearance was characteristic of the disciples of Joanna Southcott, a cultist priestess of an occult sect who claimed to be in contact with the ghost Shiloh. 

It is strange that some sixty years after her death in 1814, the Chatham group of Southcottians were joined by a soldier, James White, who, after his period of service in India, returned and took the lead locally, developing further the doctrines of Joanna ... with a communistic tinge. 16 Marx did not often speak publicly about metaphysics, but we can gather his views from the men with whom he associated. 


One of his partners in the First International was Mikhail Bakunin, a Russian anarchist, who wrote: The Evil One is the satanic revolt against divine authority, revolt in which we see the fecund germ of all human emancipations, the revolution. Socialists recognise each other by the words "In the name of the one to whom a great wrong has been done." Satan [is] the eternal rebel, the first freethinker and the emancipator of worlds. 
______
Note - Now the readers on this thread can see where Saul Alinksy dedicated his book to Lucifer. He too was a Satanist......
__
Continuing .......

He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge. Bakunin does more than praise Lucifer. He has a concrete program of revolution, but not one that would free the poor from exploitation. 

He writes: In this revolution we will have to awaken the Devil in the people, to stir up the basest passions. Our mission is to destroy, not to edify. The passion of destruction is a creative passion. Marx, along with Bakunin, formed the First International and endorsed this strange program. Marx and Engels said in The Communist Manifesto that the proletarian sees law, morality, and religion as "so many bourgeois prejudices, behind which lurk in ambush just as many bourgeois interests." 

Bakunin reveals that Proudhon, another major Socialist thinker and at that time a friend of Karl Marx, also "worshiped Satan." Hess had introduced Marx to Proudhon, who wore the same hair style typical of the nineteenth-century Satanist sect of Joanna Southcott. Proudhon, in The Philosophy of Misery, declared that God was the prototype for injustice. We reach knowledge in spite of him, we reach society in spite of him. 

Every step forward is a victory in which we overcome the Divine. He exclaims, Come, Satan, slandered by the small and by kings. God is stupidity and cowardice; God is hypocrisy and falsehood; God is tyranny and poverty; God is evil. Where humanity bows before an altar, humanity, the slave of kings and priests, will be condemned.... I swear, God, with my hand stretched out towards the heavens, that you are nothing more than the executioner of my reason, the sceptre of my conscience.... God is essentially anticivilized, antiliberal, antihuman. 

Proudhon declares God to be evil because man, His creation, is evil. Such thoughts are not original; they are the usual content of sermons delivered in Satanist worship. Marx later quarreled with Proudhon and wrote a book to refute his Philosophy of Misery. But Marx contradicted only minor economic doctrines. 

He had no objection to Proudhon's demonic anti-God rebellion. 17 Heinrich Heine, the renowned German poet, was a third intimate friend of Marx. He too was a Satan fancier. 

He wrote: I called the devil and he came, His face with wonder I must scan; He is not ugly, he is not lame. He is a delightful, charming man. "Marx was a great admirer of Heinrich Heine... . Their relationship was warm, hearty." 

Why did he admire Heine? Perhaps for Satanist thoughts like the following: I have a desire ... for a few beautiful trees before my door, and if dear God wishes to make me totally happy, he will give me the joy of seeing six or seven of my enemies hanged on these trees. 

With a compassionate heart I will forgive them after death all the wrong they have done to me during their life. Yes, we must forgive our enemies, but not before they are hanged. I am not revengeful. I would like to love my enemies. But I cannot love them before taking revenge upon them. Only then my heart opens for them. 

As long as one has not avenged himself, bitterness remains in the heart. Would any decent man be an intimate friend of one who thinks like this? 

But Marx and his entourage thought alike. Lunatcharski, a leading philosopher who was once minister of education of the U.S.S.R., wrote in Socialism aid Religion that Marx set aside all contact with God and instead put Satan in front of marching proletarian columns. 

It is essential at this point to state emphatically that Marx and his comrades, while anti-God, were not atheists, as present-day Marxists claim to be. 

That is, while they openly denounced and reviled God, they hated a God in whom they believed. They challenged not His existence, but His supremacy. When the revolution broke out in Paris in 1871, the Communard Flourens declared, "Our enemy is God. 

Hatred of God is the beginning of wisdom." Marx greatly praised the Communards who openly proclaimed this aim. But what has this to do with a more equitable distribution of goods or with better social institutions? 

Such are only the outward trappings for concealing the real aim - the total eradication of God and His worship. We saw the evidence of this in such countries as Albania, and today in North Korea, where all churches, mosques, and pagodas have been closed. 
________
Yes, it is of no surprise that both Russia and China secretly have the slave labor camps in N.Korea manufacturing their goods and sewing labels in the merchandise that reads, Made in Russia / Made in China.......  even as a man is known by the company he keeps so are nations who align themselves together in a tight knit even as NK, China & Russia have.  It is no small thing that our own nation has turned against our allies while showing open friendship to such communists as Fidel Castro and Chavez (before he died).  May God open the eyes of the American people.


----------



## Igrok_

Jeremiah said:


> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sharik said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was not exactly that difficult.
> 
> 
> 
> not difficult if seen from hindsight but, at the moment, no one knew what the situation would turn out to be. Stalin didn't set killing people as a goal; on contrary, he tried to save as many as he could; thats why he resorted to Russian historical values and gave up Bolshevism, in order to *create*, not destroy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, Stalin exploited historic Russian values in order to kill as many people as he could all around Russia, most famously in the Ukraine, but later in ww2 in Hungary and in Poland too.  He was clever, and he figured that that is the only way.  What makes you think that he had an interest in saving anyone?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Futhermore, originally he was a murderer not as a politician, but in common sense. During his job in communist party in the early 20th century he was killing and robbing people as a member of a gang. All the communists - were more or less connected with criminal world, gangsters - were their allies as the class that had nothing to lose and most opposed to Russia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reminds you of Vladimir Putin, doesn't it?
Click to expand...

not really. In his young ages Putin was an excellent pupil, was good in judo. Nowadays according to his very strange laws he makes me think a lot of about USSR resurrection, but still i hope that this is just an illusion


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## Book of Jeremiah

Igrok_ said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sharik said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was not exactly that difficult.
> 
> 
> 
> not difficult if seen from hindsight but, at the moment, no one knew what the situation would turn out to be. Stalin didn't set killing people as a goal; on contrary, he tried to save as many as he could; thats why he resorted to Russian historical values and gave up Bolshevism, in order to *create*, not destroy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, Stalin exploited historic Russian values in order to kill as many people as he could all around Russia, most famously in the Ukraine, but later in ww2 in Hungary and in Poland too.  He was clever, and he figured that that is the only way.  What makes you think that he had an interest in saving anyone?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Futhermore, originally he was a murderer not as a politician, but in common sense. During his job in communist party in the early 20th century he was killing and robbing people as a member of a gang. All the communists - were more or less connected with criminal world, gangsters - were their allies as the class that had nothing to lose and most opposed to Russia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reminds you of Vladimir Putin, doesn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> not really. In his young ages Putin was an excellent pupil, was good in judo. Nowadays according to his very strange laws he makes me think a lot of about USSR resurrection, but still i hope that this is just an illusion
Click to expand...

Not according to this international story, he wasn't.  Neither you or I were present when Putin was a child so what we can do is look at documentation found, people who perhaps attended school with him, etc.  That is most likely the best we can do, Igrok.  Here is the story of his classroom performance:

Paper Reveals Putin's Cheeky Childhood

Watch out, schoolteachers. That little monster who talks in class, throws erasers at his classmates, and skips his homework may grow up to the nation's top spy, or worse yet, its leader.

That's exactly what happened in Russia, says the popular tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda.

Earlier this week, the daily announced that it had found President Vladimir Putin's grade book in the dusty attic of a small wooden house where he spent his childhood summers.

The book painted a picture of an 11-year-old boy who was far from any sort of greatness at the time.

One instructor's comment said, "before class [Putin] threw chalkboard erasers at the children."

Others read: "Didn't do his math homework." "Behaved badly during singing class." "Talks in class."

The grade book revealed that Putin was once caught passing notes to a boy named Bogandov when he should have been paying attention to his teacher.

It also said the future president and judo champion fought repeatedly with his gym teacher during the 1963-64 school year. Young Putin was sent out of class and punished for forgetting his uniform, according to the paper.

One day, Putin's father was even summoned to school, after he boy got into a fight with an older student.

He was "one of us," the paper declared, apparently proud about Putin's unexceptional childhood.

Mediocrity Apparent

Putin's grades didn't reveal anything exceptional, either. On the Soviet five-point scale, he scored threes in arithmetic and natural science, and a two in drawing.

The only subject in which he scored a five was history. He also got a five for behavior, despite his altercations in gym class.

The tabloid said Putin's true love was German. Along with the grade book, the newspaper said it also found Putin's school notebooks. Young Putin loved German so much that there were German notes all over his books for other subjects, it said.

The paper said it even found German flashcards tucked inside his chemistry notebook.



A Refugee's Revelation

The newspaper obtained the notebooks after hearing that the house's current occupant had found some of Putin's notebooks in the attic when she moved in.

The house is a "dacha," or summer house, in the town of Tosno, outside St. Petersburg.

The Putins, like other families, visited the dacha on weekends during the winter, but lived there full-time during the summer, tending their vegetable garden.

Nadezhda Pankova, a refugee from Kazakhstan, initially told the reporters that she burned everything. But when they pressed her to let them look in the attic, she relented and went to fetch a ladder.

The discovery was a prize for Russian and world media, who have been searching for details of the former KGB spy's past ever since he came to power more than a year ago.

ABCNEWS.com's Derek Thomson contributed to this report.
_________
Although this alleged documentation of Putin's performance in school was found in the attic of a house he lived in as a child - one has to consider that the woman would have feared giving such information to the reporters unless this was already cleared by their state run media - which Pravda is known to be.  The truth is probably some place in the middle..  What I see in Putin is a man who has no understanding of God.  If he knew God he would fear him.  By his actions, it is quite apparent that he does not fear the LORD.


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## Book of Jeremiah

sharik said:


> there4eyeM said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no defense possible for Stalin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> as if you're informed enough to speak out in such manner...
> 
> what do you know on the subject but the lies you were told at school and by the media?
Click to expand...

He obviously knows the truth.  It's not as easy to cover up as you might think.


----------



## sharik

Jeremiah said:


> Reminds you of Vladimir Putin, doesn't it?



not in the least.



Jeremiah said:


> Stalin was a mass murderer and a madman.



grow up.


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## Book of Jeremiah

sharik said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reminds you of Vladimir Putin, doesn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not in the least.
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stalin was a mass murderer and a madman.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> grow up.
Click to expand...

It is a matter of facing reality, Sharik.  Stalin was a mass murderer.  As for Putin, can a man who has assassinated journalists, political opponents and other innocent people be forgiven by the Lord Jesus Christ?  Yes, there are many testimonies of people who became born again Christians and repented of such wicked behavior (murder, lies, deceit).  Your best response?  Pray for Putin that God will open his eyes.  Pray for your people, that they will turn to the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved.  That is what you should do.


----------



## sharik

Jeremiah said:


> Add to this the poisoning of Litvinenko and the journalists who have also reportedly been assassinated by Putin.



only shows how ignorant you are. Putin has nothing to do with these assassinations, and Russians in London were killed by MI5.


----------



## sharik

Jeremiah said:


> It is a matter of facing reality, Sharik.  Stalin was a mass murderer.



so face the reality: Stalin ruled the country for 30 years, people died natural deaths, they later were all listed as killed by Stalin; as well as rapists, murderers & thieves in gulags were listed as political prisoners; you see, its a stitch up.


----------



## anotherlife

Igrok_ said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sharik said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was not exactly that difficult.
> 
> 
> 
> not difficult if seen from hindsight but, at the moment, no one knew what the situation would turn out to be. Stalin didn't set killing people as a goal; on contrary, he tried to save as many as he could; thats why he resorted to Russian historical values and gave up Bolshevism, in order to *create*, not destroy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, Stalin exploited historic Russian values in order to kill as many people as he could all around Russia, most famously in the Ukraine, but later in ww2 in Hungary and in Poland too.  He was clever, and he figured that that is the only way.  What makes you think that he had an interest in saving anyone?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Futhermore, originally he was a murderer not as a politician, but in common sense. During his job in communist party in the early 20th century he was killing and robbing people as a member of a gang. All the communists - were more or less connected with criminal world, gangsters - were their allies as the class that had nothing to lose and most opposed to Russia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reminds you of Vladimir Putin, doesn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> not really. In his young ages Putin was an excellent pupil, was good in judo. Nowadays according to his very strange laws he makes me think a lot of about USSR resurrection, but still i hope that this is just an illusion
Click to expand...

I think what Putin sees is that his homeland is being divided by unnamed powers behind France and the EU once again, like kolchak, denikin, and other anti revolutionary generals tried to divide Soviet Russia for France during ww1.  It would be bad news if Putin recreates Soviet Russia, but what other options are possible under this renewed isolation by the "international community"?


----------



## anotherlife

Okay Jeremiah, so what is a God fearing king to do, if Putin was a God fearing King of Russia, when the entire international community is programmed to push against him to divide and loot his native towns that he wants to protect?  What would be God's advice to such a king?


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## Book of Jeremiah

anotherlife said:


> Okay Jeremiah, so what is a God fearing king to do, if Putin was a God fearing King of Russia, when the entire international community is programmed to push against him to divide and loot his native towns that he wants to protect?  What would be God's advice to such a king?


Because America is under the judgment of God, what Putin has planned against America must come to pass. America has no history of being an Islamic state nor an international corporation run by the Vatican although for some time that is precisely what Rome has accomplished by craftily sending their Jesuits to assassinate our presidents (Lincoln and Kennedy were both murdered by Jesuits sent on assignment from Rome) as well as assassinating Kings, Presidents, Rulers around the world.

If Putin is as brilliant as Igrok implies that he is (and he may be -  I do not know) then he already knows the history of the Vatican and it's plotting against Russia - because the ex-Jesuit Alberto Rivera explained exactly how the Vatican sought to destroy Russia and how it was diverted. In fact, the Jesuits murdered Rivera for revealing their secrets.  Surely the Russians were paying attention to the massive information Rivera exposed about the Pope and Jesuits and what he read underneath the Vatican - their documents which went back many, many centuries including their plots against Russia.....

 I believe that the Vatican has already renewed their old concordat with Moscow as they are pushing for the new brand of Marxism that is now sweeping the world. 

 That is why they elected a communist pope in 1978. Pope John Paul II was a communist.  Liberal theology and social gospel is what Jesuit Pope Francis espouses too. Frances is a Communist and his agenda is pushing for gun control and disarmament of USA.  If tomorrow being a Communist would not work for this Jesuit Pope he would overnight become a "Capitolist"....he will be whatever he must be - a chameleon - Jesuits are known for such deception and tactics to deceive those they target....

The Vatican knows that America's best days are over with and has already moved quickly to align herself politically with Moscow.  See the book The Vatican - Moscow - Washington Alliance by Avro Manhattan.  This plan has been in the works for some time.  

What Putin probably already knows is that the Vatican was behind the entire creation of the New World Order Internationalism.  It was Jesuits who created the first UN (League of Nations) and Jesuits who created the second one.  They have been working behind the scenes all along.  Maybe that is (partially) why he does not want anything to do with it. Why would Putin want to let the Vatican use him to create his own new world order only to hand it over to them?  Does that make sense?  

I do not believe that the Russians will be fooled by the Vatican and it's Roman Empire twice.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

anotherlife said:


> Okay Jeremiah, so what is a God fearing king to do, if Putin was a God fearing King of Russia, when the entire international community is programmed to push against him to divide and loot his native towns that he wants to protect?  What would be God's advice to such a king?


This is what I believe about Putin.  I believe he has never had an encounter with Jesus Christ and does not know the LORD.  He doesn't read the KJV Holy Bible and he has no idea of what the Scriptures say or what the truth is about who Jesus Christ is.  Therein he is like Paul the Apostle before his conversion.  Paul was a murderer before he was converted.  Many a man has been saved even after committing such heinous crimes. The Lord Jesus Christ can forgive a man of such sins and he could very well draw this man to Him by the power of His Holy Spirit.

On the other hand, Pope Francis knows exactly what the KJV Holy Bible says but his goal is to destroy God's Holy Word, hunt down the Protestants and Jews who resist him and see to it that we are all murdered.  What he does - he does not do in ignorance of God's Holy Word.  Pope Francis is a man who knows full well what he does and spits in the face of Jesus Christ.  He is an enemy of Jesus Christ to the fullest degree and sense of the word.

I would sooner believe that Vladimir Putin could become a born again Christian than the Jesuit Herod of Rome ever could.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

sharik said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Add to this the poisoning of Litvinenko and the journalists who have also reportedly been assassinated by Putin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> only shows how ignorant you are. Putin has nothing to do with these assassinations, and Russians in London were killed by MI5.
Click to expand...

Perhaps not but at least one of his victims is convinced that he did - Lavintinko said on his death bed that it was Putin who did it to him...

....again - could Putin be forgiven all of his sins - even murder? Yes, I believe he could be. Why don't you pray for him instead of denying the lost state he is in - he's perishing. Pray for him. That would be wisdom, Sharik.


----------



## sharik

Jeremiah said:


> Lavintinko said on his death bed that it was Putin who did it to him...



he did not say anything of the sort. Berezovsky and Goldfarb put the words in his mouth, but his father believes it was them who killed his son; at least Wikipedia says so.


----------



## Igrok_

anotherlife said:


> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sharik said:
> 
> 
> 
> not difficult if seen from hindsight but, at the moment, no one knew what the situation would turn out to be. Stalin didn't set killing people as a goal; on contrary, he tried to save as many as he could; thats why he resorted to Russian historical values and gave up Bolshevism, in order to *create*, not destroy.
> 
> 
> 
> No, Stalin exploited historic Russian values in order to kill as many people as he could all around Russia, most famously in the Ukraine, but later in ww2 in Hungary and in Poland too.  He was clever, and he figured that that is the only way.  What makes you think that he had an interest in saving anyone?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Futhermore, originally he was a murderer not as a politician, but in common sense. During his job in communist party in the early 20th century he was killing and robbing people as a member of a gang. All the communists - were more or less connected with criminal world, gangsters - were their allies as the class that had nothing to lose and most opposed to Russia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reminds you of Vladimir Putin, doesn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> not really. In his young ages Putin was an excellent pupil, was good in judo. Nowadays according to his very strange laws he makes me think a lot of about USSR resurrection, but still i hope that this is just an illusion
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think what Putin sees is that his homeland is being divided by unnamed powers behind France and the EU once again, like kolchak, denikin, and other anti revolutionary generals tried to divide Soviet Russia for France during ww1.  It would be bad news if Putin recreates Soviet Russia, but what other options are possible under this renewed isolation by the "international community"?
Click to expand...

In Soviet time the will to isolate the country was on the USSR's side. Nowadays Russia seeks methods to get rid of it. And finds it. In all cases (equipment provision or other interactions) Russia gets what it wants, because it is profitable for both sides. And if US or Europe do not want to provide their service, it is possible to have interaction with Asia or Middle East to get this (or get american production via "special purpose vehicle"). There is no problem here.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Igrok_ said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, Stalin exploited historic Russian values in order to kill as many people as he could all around Russia, most famously in the Ukraine, but later in ww2 in Hungary and in Poland too.  He was clever, and he figured that that is the only way.  What makes you think that he had an interest in saving anyone?
> 
> 
> 
> Futhermore, originally he was a murderer not as a politician, but in common sense. During his job in communist party in the early 20th century he was killing and robbing people as a member of a gang. All the communists - were more or less connected with criminal world, gangsters - were their allies as the class that had nothing to lose and most opposed to Russia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reminds you of Vladimir Putin, doesn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> not really. In his young ages Putin was an excellent pupil, was good in judo. Nowadays according to his very strange laws he makes me think a lot of about USSR resurrection, but still i hope that this is just an illusion
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think what Putin sees is that his homeland is being divided by unnamed powers behind France and the EU once again, like kolchak, denikin, and other anti revolutionary generals tried to divide Soviet Russia for France during ww1.  It would be bad news if Putin recreates Soviet Russia, but what other options are possible under this renewed isolation by the "international community"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In Soviet time the will to isolate the country was on the USSR's side. Nowadays Russia seeks methods to get rid of it. And finds it. In all cases (equipment provision or other interactions) Russia gets what it wants, because it is profitable for both sides. And if US or Europe do not want to provide their service, it is possible to have interaction with Asia or Middle East to get this (or get american production via "special purpose vehicle"). There is no problem here.
Click to expand...

Here is the difference between the history of America and Russia.  American history - her greatest victories - inventions - massive wealth - prosperity - were because of her faith in God and being called of God to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  No other nation on the face of the earth has ever been blessed the way the United States has been.  So America's blessings have come from God and our chastisement has and will come from God because we are not illegitimate children of God Almighty.

The history of Russia can make no such claim.  Their greatest victories were accomplished through communism, deception, lies, mass murder and satanic endeavors.  There was never a Russian government that sought the Lord Jesus Christ for success - no - your history is full of dark days of mass murderers, killing your own people, starving your own people, Gulags, Siberian wastelands, nothing but misery and hangovers from too much vodka........no wonder the term became famous "Russian Brides"........who would want this?  Drunken communists / wife beaters / railers are not what little girls grow up dreaming to marry, you know...  Even Stalin's daughter defected to the USA.  Who could blame her?

The truth is the dream of the Russian woman was to come to America because there was a time when America was known and called "The American Dream." American men were known to be among the most valiant soldiers, noble, kind hearted, successful and generous. All characteristics of Christian men.  There was a time when such men were plentiful in America...

Russia has no such history.  The world never knew any such title, The Russian dream.  Russian Gulag?  Yes. But who wants that?

Listen to me.   When it comes to Olympics - we used nothing more than a JV team to crush the Russians in the 1980's Hockey Olympic title.   How did this happen. I will tell you how.  Your leaders do not understand the importance of freedom and the human spirit.

I mean true freedom.  Freedom of the press, freedom of religion, freedom to vote in fair elections, freedom to start a business and prosper from it.

Your people defected from Russia because they wanted freedom from oppression, freedom from Kremlin, KGB and secret police.  Freedom from big brother.  Freedom from starvation and poverty.  They wanted to live their lives in a free country and therein they chose to live in America rather than Russia.  Again - who could blame them?  These people were created in the image of God and it is stamped upon their very soul to desire to be free and know God!  It is most natural to have such desires.  God gave mankind the desire for freedom! 

The truth is the truth.  I pity the Russian people.  They have been brainwashed to believe lies against America and her people.  America's history was to stand on the side of those who were oppressed.  Which is why we fought for their liberty while your country sided with their persecutors and fought to see them remain slaves.

Your country has done nothing but brought you shame.  Your country has allies like North Korea, Cuba and China because this is their character.  Godless, soulless men who live off of the labor of others like parasites.  It's a disgraceful heritage.  I do understand why your people try so desperately to deflect the truth about their Motherland - Stratford and Tehon would seek to convince the American people all blame should be on America - but by the facts and foundation American history? You have all been proven dead wrong.

* On the subject of the defeat Russian hockey team suffered in 1980 - they cried like babies until they could change the rules of the game and force America to accept the "Dream Team" rules - since then?  No more wins for America.  You see, the Russians (government) cannot win fairly.  They must go behind the scenes and cheat, lie, steal, corrupt, bribe, murder........how do you think they sold their Marxist propaganda to this past generation of students in American colleges and Universities?

Again, I pity the people of Russia.  Yes, Putin will invade America (with his communist nation allies)  when China invades Taiwan and USA responds......but you should know that although the Lord uses the wicked for his sword (Psalm 17) - when he is finished - he will bring his judgment upon you and your country.  Then where will you be?

I pray you will do the right thing now and get on your hands and knees and repent of your sins and cry out for mercy to the Lord Jesus Christ.  You have no idea what you are getting into.  None at all.  Take my Word for it.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

sharik said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lavintinko said on his death bed that it was Putin who did it to him...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> he did not say anything of the sort. Berezovsky and Goldfarb put the words in his mouth, but his father believes it was them who killed his son; at least Wikipedia says so.
Click to expand...

baloney


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

sharik said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is a matter of facing reality, Sharik.  Stalin was a mass murderer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so face the reality: Stalin ruled the country for 30 years, people died natural deaths, they later were all listed as killed by Stalin; as well as rapists, murderers & thieves in gulags were listed as political prisoners; you see, its a stitch up.
Click to expand...

No one has victimized and brutalized the Russian people more than their own Government and Political Rulers.  It has been the history of Russia to starve, enslave, spy on and massacre their own people.  I would expect no less from the mother land of Communism.  It is the same story wherever socialism /Communism takes over.......North Korea, China, Cuba, Venezuela.....  it is the nature of communism and I feel deep sympathy for the people living under such oppression. Many have never known any other life - to them?  It is normal.  How sad. How terribly, terribly sad.


----------



## sharik

Jeremiah said:


> The history of Russia can make no such claim. Their greatest victories were accomplished through communism, deception, lies, mass murder and satanic endeavors.



so what? US achievements were obtained through Capitalism, none the better than Communism.



Jeremiah said:


> your history is full of dark days of mass murderers, killing your own people, starving your own people, Gulags, Siberian wastelands,



you mean we have been living like that all the time?.. your terribly wrong. Siberia is not wastelands, btw, go and study the subject before posting BS.



Jeremiah said:


> nothing but misery and hangovers from too much vodka



really? hard liquors all the way? not even beer, tea or coffee? Western media did a job on you...



Jeremiah said:


> no wonder the term became famous "Russian Brides"



dates back to the 1990s. try get a real Russian bride right now, you wouldn't get any.



Jeremiah said:


> The truth is the dream of the Russian woman was to come to America because there was a time when America was known and called "The American Dream."



yeah, its called 'advertising' and some fall for it, however we call it *lies*.



Jeremiah said:


> The world never knew any such title, The Russian dream.



have to admit, we Russians aren't any good at advertising or cheating people.



Jeremiah said:


> Freedom of the press, freedom of religion, freedom to vote in fair elections,



you US folks don't have the former & the latter of the above mentioned.



Jeremiah said:


> freedom to start a business and prosper from it.



that you can do in Russia too these days.



Jeremiah said:


> Your people defected from Russia because they wanted freedom from oppression, freedom from Kremlin, KGB and secret police.



no, because they were payed by the CIA to defect, and the payment was made with US taxpayers money, btw.



Jeremiah said:


> I pity the Russian people.



save your crocodile tears for someone else.



Jeremiah said:


> Your country has done nothing but brought you shame.



shame that you don't use the internet to look up on the subject of Russia before posting utter nonsense.



Jeremiah said:


> Yes, Putin will invade America (with his communist nation allies)  when China invades Taiwan and USA responds



from here on i think any further discussion to be pointless.


----------



## sharik

Jeremiah said:


> No one has victimized and brutalized the Russian people more than their own Government and Political Rulers. It has been the history of Russia to starve, enslave, spy on and massacre their own people.



that is the most idiotic attempt at building mythology ever seen...

a country can't exist the way you describe, especially such country as Russia, which had a lot of work to do, hence they needed people to be happy with the authorities and rulers.

you obviously hate every thing Russian, not only Stalin and Communists, but also every tsar and Orthodox priest, as a result of the brainwashing you have been subjected to; this proves there's no freedom of press in the West, and its education system conducts *indoctrination* instead of educating people and spreads bigotry.


----------



## Igrok_

Jeremiah said:


> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Futhermore, originally he was a murderer not as a politician, but in common sense. During his job in communist party in the early 20th century he was killing and robbing people as a member of a gang. All the communists - were more or less connected with criminal world, gangsters - were their allies as the class that had nothing to lose and most opposed to Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> Reminds you of Vladimir Putin, doesn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> not really. In his young ages Putin was an excellent pupil, was good in judo. Nowadays according to his very strange laws he makes me think a lot of about USSR resurrection, but still i hope that this is just an illusion
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think what Putin sees is that his homeland is being divided by unnamed powers behind France and the EU once again, like kolchak, denikin, and other anti revolutionary generals tried to divide Soviet Russia for France during ww1.  It would be bad news if Putin recreates Soviet Russia, but what other options are possible under this renewed isolation by the "international community"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In Soviet time the will to isolate the country was on the USSR's side. Nowadays Russia seeks methods to get rid of it. And finds it. In all cases (equipment provision or other interactions) Russia gets what it wants, because it is profitable for both sides. And if US or Europe do not want to provide their service, it is possible to have interaction with Asia or Middle East to get this (or get american production via "special purpose vehicle"). There is no problem here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here is the difference between the history of America and Russia.  American history - her greatest victories - inventions - massive wealth - prosperity - were because of her faith in God and being called of God to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  No other nation on the face of the earth has ever been blessed the way the United States has been.  So America's blessings have come from God and our chastisement has and will come from God because we are not illegitimate children of God Almighty.
> 
> The history of Russia can make no such claim.  Their greatest victories were accomplished through communism, deception, lies, mass murder and satanic endeavors.  There was never a Russian government that sought the Lord Jesus Christ for success - no - your history is full of dark days of mass murderers, killing your own people, starving your own people, Gulags, Siberian wastelands, nothing but misery and hangovers from too much vodka........no wonder the term became famous "Russian Brides"........who would want this?  Drunken communists / wife beaters / railers are not what little girls grow up dreaming to marry, you know...  Even Stalin's daughter defected to the USA.  Who could blame her?
> 
> The truth is the dream of the Russian woman was to come to America because there was a time when America was known and called "The American Dream." American men were known to be among the most valiant soldiers, noble, kind hearted, successful and generous. All characteristics of Christian men.  There was a time when such men were plentiful in America...
> 
> Russia has no such history.  The world never knew any such title, The Russian dream.  Russian Gulag?  Yes. But who wants that?
> 
> Listen to me.   When it comes to Olympics - we used nothing more than a JV team to crush the Russians in the 1980's Hockey Olympic title.   How did this happen. I will tell you how.  Your leaders do not understand the importance of freedom and the human spirit.
> 
> I mean true freedom.  Freedom of the press, freedom of religion, freedom to vote in fair elections, freedom to start a business and prosper from it.
> 
> Your people defected from Russia because they wanted freedom from oppression, freedom from Kremlin, KGB and secret police.  Freedom from big brother.  Freedom from starvation and poverty.  They wanted to live their lives in a free country and therein they chose to live in America rather than Russia.  Again - who could blame them?  These people were created in the image of God and it is stamped upon their very soul to desire to be free and know God!  It is most natural to have such desires.  God gave mankind the desire for freedom!
> 
> The truth is the truth.  I pity the Russian people.  They have been brainwashed to believe lies against America and her people.  America's history was to stand on the side of those who were oppressed.  Which is why we fought for their liberty while your country sided with their persecutors and fought to see them remain slaves.
> 
> Your country has done nothing but brought you shame.  Your country has allies like North Korea, Cuba and China because this is their character.  Godless, soulless men who live off of the labor of others like parasites.  It's a disgraceful heritage.  I do understand why your people try so desperately to deflect the truth about their Motherland - Stratford and Tehon would seek to convince the American people all blame should be on America - but by the facts and foundation American history? You have all been proven dead wrong.
> 
> * On the subject of the defeat Russian hockey team suffered in 1980 - they cried like babies until they could change the rules of the game and force America to accept the "Dream Team" rules - since then?  No more wins for America.  You see, the Russians (government) cannot win fairly.  They must go behind the scenes and cheat, lie, steal, corrupt, bribe, murder........how do you think they sold their Marxist propaganda to this past generation of students in American colleges and Universities?
> 
> Again, I pity the people of Russia.  Yes, Putin will invade America (with his communist nation allies)  when China invades Taiwan and USA responds......but you should know that although the Lord uses the wicked for his sword (Psalm 17) - when he is finished - he will bring his judgment upon you and your country.  Then where will you be?
> 
> I pray you will do the right thing now and get on your hands and knees and repent of your sins and cry out for mercy to the Lord Jesus Christ.  You have no idea what you are getting into.  None at all.  Take my Word for it.
Click to expand...

What was it?)
I have read all the message - thank you! It is very interesting. Never knew the point of american people towards russia. It is hard to believe but in Russia we often say "Russia is the Holy Rus"(old russian state). That means that the main goal of living is to obey the Church!
After that  - it was interesting to see your point about freedom. In our country freedom - it is not when one can copulate with who he likes (man and woman), not when you could make propaganda about unofficial religions which make harm to whose who follow it, not when man has to spend all his life to get rich or die trying. All the energy russians have they spend on mostly religious things, secondary - on culture or science. Even communism was not to lie to somebody but to follow it as a religion. That is why russia is behind catholics and protestants in comfort of living - because it does not matter! If you want to have an overview about happiness in Russia - try this series:

The last is that Russia is about 1000 years whereas communists ruled over there 75 year - it is only 7% of the whole time.
And why do you like so much one hockey match US vs USSR? Russia/USSR has won Olympic gold 8 times whereas USA just 2. I pity american people.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

If that be true then why did Russia just enact laws on July 20, 2016 making it illegal for any Protestant or Christian of any denomination to share their faith with their own children inside their own home, invite a family member to church online or in public?  Why did they make it a law that Christians are only permitted to speak about their faith inside a church building or at a designated religious site pre- approved by the Russian government?

Russia's Newest Law: No Evangelizing Outside of Church
UPDATE: Putin Approves Law Making It Illegal to Share the Gospel Outside of Russian Churches
Russia puts lid on Christians sharing faith
Russia: Christians banned from discussing faith outside church - Premier Christian Radio

Is this how you define Russia's support of freedom for Christians? Comfort of living? 
To threaten these people with arrest and prosecution if they fail to comply? 

If Putin were to change his mind about this law and decree it unjust I would be persuaded to believe you and soften my opinion of him but _is_ he a man that would consider _all_ of the Christians of Russia and not just the consideration of the Russian Orthodox Church?  That is yet to be determined.  I'll be waiting to see what he does.

On the matter of the USA defeating the Russian hockey team in 1980... I have already told you why there was never another such victory.  The rules were changed and thereafter the American teams were forced to change to "Dream Teams."  I should challenge the title, as it is more likened to "Disaster Teams."

You've proven my point quite nicely.  I must thank you, Igrok.

In closing, my conflict is not with the people of Russia but rather their government which has not done them any favors.


----------



## Igrok_

Jeremiah said:


> If that be true then why did Russia just enact laws on July 20, 2016 making it illegal for any Protestant or Christian of any denomination to share their faith with their own children inside their own home, invite a family member to church online or in public?  Why did they make it a law that Christians are only permitted to speak about their faith inside a church building or at a designated religious site pre- approved by the Russian government?
> 
> Russia's Newest Law: No Evangelizing Outside of Church
> UPDATE: Putin Approves Law Making It Illegal to Share the Gospel Outside of Russian Churches
> Russia puts lid on Christians sharing faith
> Russia: Christians banned from discussing faith outside church - Premier Christian Radio
> 
> Is this how you define Russia's support of freedom for Christians?  To threaten these people with arrest and prosecution if they fail to comply?
> 
> If Putin were to change his mind about this law and decree it unjust I would be persuaded to believe you and soften my opinion of him but _is_ he a man that would consider _all_ of the Christians of Russia and not just the consideration of the Russian Orthodox Church?  That is yet to be determined.  I'll be waiting to see what he does.
> 
> On the matter of the USA defeating the Russian hockey team in 1980... I have already told you why there was never another such victory.  The rules were changed and thereafter the American teams were forced to change to "Dream Teams."  I should challenge the title, as it is more likened to "Disaster Teams."
> 
> You've proven my point quite nicely.  I must thank you, Igrok.
> 
> In closing, my conflict is not with the people of Russia but rather their government which has not done them any favors.


The freedom is about when each man in the state can do what he wants. Really? If i am the programmer i do not like Putin or whoever to give me advices how to write a code. Also if you are the president why one should give you advices how to do your job best? That is the point. That is why russian do not like revolutions and citizen's rights. Cause it is out of your business. If want to take part in political life - ok, be the politician. That is all.
Secondary, from the 988 russia was built by russian orthodox church. It was untill 1917 year the main religion, absolute majority of russians were orthodox christians. So now russia backs to its roots. Other "christian denominations" are out of russian culture and russian traditions. So, this is russian freedom - to be in accordance with Orthodox Church as much as possible. If you do not know, according to Orthodoxy, this religion is the only one has the Holy Spirit, and God inside it.
And another point is that there is plenty of old soviet people there who really want to ressurect USSR, i hope during the time they will gone.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Igrok_ said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If that be true then why did Russia just enact laws on July 20, 2016 making it illegal for any Protestant or Christian of any denomination to share their faith with their own children inside their own home, invite a family member to church online or in public?  Why did they make it a law that Christians are only permitted to speak about their faith inside a church building or at a designated religious site pre- approved by the Russian government?
> 
> Russia's Newest Law: No Evangelizing Outside of Church
> UPDATE: Putin Approves Law Making It Illegal to Share the Gospel Outside of Russian Churches
> Russia puts lid on Christians sharing faith
> Russia: Christians banned from discussing faith outside church - Premier Christian Radio
> 
> Is this how you define Russia's support of freedom for Christians?  To threaten these people with arrest and prosecution if they fail to comply?
> 
> If Putin were to change his mind about this law and decree it unjust I would be persuaded to believe you and soften my opinion of him but _is_ he a man that would consider _all_ of the Christians of Russia and not just the consideration of the Russian Orthodox Church?  That is yet to be determined.  I'll be waiting to see what he does.
> 
> On the matter of the USA defeating the Russian hockey team in 1980... I have already told you why there was never another such victory.  The rules were changed and thereafter the American teams were forced to change to "Dream Teams."  I should challenge the title, as it is more likened to "Disaster Teams."
> 
> You've proven my point quite nicely.  I must thank you, Igrok.
> 
> In closing, my conflict is not with the people of Russia but rather their government which has not done them any favors.
> 
> 
> 
> The freedom is about when each man in the state can do what he wants. Really? If i am the programmer i do not like Putin or whoever to give me advices how to write a code. Also if you are the president why one should give you advices how to do your job best? That is the point. That is why russian do not like revolutions and citizen's rights. Cause it is out of your business. If want to take part in political life - ok, be the politician. That is all.
> Secondary, from the 988 russia was built by russian orthodox church. It was untill 1917 year the main religion, absolute majority of russians were orthodox christians. So now russia backs to its roots. Other "christian denominations" are out of russian culture and russian traditions. So, this is russian freedom - to be in accordance with Orthodox Church as much as possible. If you do not know, according to Orthodoxy, this religion is the only one has the Holy Spirit, and God inside it.
> And another point is that there is plenty of old soviet people there who really want to ressurect USSR, i hope during the time they will gone.
Click to expand...


The Russian Orthodox Church is the only one that has the Holy Spirit?  Who told you that?  That is not what the Word of God says, Igrok.  The Word of God is the final authority.  Not the Russian Orthodox Church!  There is one common denominator in all cults.  What is that? That they alone have the truth.  Yes, man has been attempting to control the people through " dead religion & it's rituals" from the days of the Apostles and subsequently the Apostle Paul & his brethren were cast into prison cells for proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ.   What happened then?  The Lord met them in the jails and even a jailer and his entire household were saved as a result!  Do you recall this story?

And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers, And brought them to the magistrates, saying, These men, being Jews, do exceedingly trouble our city, And teach customs, which are not lawful for us to receive, neither to observe, being Romans.

And the multitude rose up together against them: and the magistrates rent off their clothes, and commanded to beat them. And when they had laid many stripes upon them, they cast them into prison, charging the jailor to keep them safely:
Who, having received such a charge, thrust them into the inner prison, and made their feet fast in the stocks.

And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.

And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.

And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.

But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.

Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,

And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

And when it was day, the magistrates sent the serjeants, saying, Let those men go.

And the keeper of the prison told this saying to Paul, The magistrates have sent to let you go: now therefore depart, and go in peace.

But Paul said unto them, They have beaten us openly uncondemned, being Romans, and have cast us into prison; and now do they thrust us out privily? nay verily; but let them come themselves and fetch us out.

And the serjeants told these words unto the magistrates: and they feared, when they heard that they were Romans.

And they came and besought them, and brought them out, and desired them to depart out of the city.

And they went out of the prison, and entered into the house of Lydia: and when they had seen the brethren, they comforted them, and departed.
_______

You see, Igrok, your government may succeed in causing your people of Russian Orthodox Church to spy on and  to turn in those who preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ as Paul and the Apostles did, but they cannot stop the Holy Spirit from performing the work Which He was sent to do!  The salvation of souls!  This is the work of God and no man, no government, no kingdom of the earth can stop it.  The gates of hell shall not prevail against God's church.  Who is God's church?  Those who have believed upon the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation even as the Jailer and his family did do......_this _is the true Church!  The body of Christ wherever they may be.  Where two or more are gathered together *in His Name* - there in the midst is Jesus Christ and how glorious such a gathering is.  This is true church. Not a building, not a denomination, not an organization, no, no, no....  Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is Liberty!  I will be praying for you that the Holy Spirit visits you and reveals Jesus Christ to you that you and your whole household may be saved!  Truly the Lord is merciful, kind, longsuffering and not willing that any should perish but that all should believe on Him for the gift of salvation.  It is only through Jesus Christ that we can be saved - by believing upon Him - not our own good works  - certainly not by membership to a church - no church membership can assure us salvation. It is a free gift!  It cannot be earned!   Only Jesus Christ can give us the gift of eternal life and it is through Him that we receive. By believing upon Him only and that God raised him from the dead. He died on the cross for our sins and if we believe this and will repent of our sins (all of us have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God) and call upon His name He will save us.  The offer is to whosoever will believe upon Him.  Whosoever means who ever will believe - He will receive that one. What a promise!  What love God has shown us!  Let us receive the truth and walk in it until He comes again to gather His Bride.


----------



## Igrok_

Jeremiah said:


> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If that be true then why did Russia just enact laws on July 20, 2016 making it illegal for any Protestant or Christian of any denomination to share their faith with their own children inside their own home, invite a family member to church online or in public?  Why did they make it a law that Christians are only permitted to speak about their faith inside a church building or at a designated religious site pre- approved by the Russian government?
> 
> Russia's Newest Law: No Evangelizing Outside of Church
> UPDATE: Putin Approves Law Making It Illegal to Share the Gospel Outside of Russian Churches
> Russia puts lid on Christians sharing faith
> Russia: Christians banned from discussing faith outside church - Premier Christian Radio
> 
> Is this how you define Russia's support of freedom for Christians?  To threaten these people with arrest and prosecution if they fail to comply?
> 
> If Putin were to change his mind about this law and decree it unjust I would be persuaded to believe you and soften my opinion of him but _is_ he a man that would consider _all_ of the Christians of Russia and not just the consideration of the Russian Orthodox Church?  That is yet to be determined.  I'll be waiting to see what he does.
> 
> On the matter of the USA defeating the Russian hockey team in 1980... I have already told you why there was never another such victory.  The rules were changed and thereafter the American teams were forced to change to "Dream Teams."  I should challenge the title, as it is more likened to "Disaster Teams."
> 
> You've proven my point quite nicely.  I must thank you, Igrok.
> 
> In closing, my conflict is not with the people of Russia but rather their government which has not done them any favors.
> 
> 
> 
> The freedom is about when each man in the state can do what he wants. Really? If i am the programmer i do not like Putin or whoever to give me advices how to write a code. Also if you are the president why one should give you advices how to do your job best? That is the point. That is why russian do not like revolutions and citizen's rights. Cause it is out of your business. If want to take part in political life - ok, be the politician. That is all.
> Secondary, from the 988 russia was built by russian orthodox church. It was untill 1917 year the main religion, absolute majority of russians were orthodox christians. So now russia backs to its roots. Other "christian denominations" are out of russian culture and russian traditions. So, this is russian freedom - to be in accordance with Orthodox Church as much as possible. If you do not know, according to Orthodoxy, this religion is the only one has the Holy Spirit, and God inside it.
> And another point is that there is plenty of old soviet people there who really want to ressurect USSR, i hope during the time they will gone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Russian Orthodox Church is the only one that has the Holy Spirit?  Who told you that?  That is not what the Word of God says, Igrok.  The Word of God is the final authority.  Not the Russian Orthodox Church!  There is one common denominator in all cults.  What is that? That they alone have the truth.  Yes, man has been attempting to control the people through " dead religion & it's rituals" from the days of the Apostles and subsequently the Apostle Paul & his brethren were cast into prison cells for proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ.   What happened then?  The Lord met them in the jails and even a jailer and his entire household were saved as a result!  Do you recall this story?
> 
> And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
> The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
> 
> And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
> 
> And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers, And brought them to the magistrates, saying, These men, being Jews, do exceedingly trouble our city, And teach customs, which are not lawful for us to receive, neither to observe, being Romans.
> 
> And the multitude rose up together against them: and the magistrates rent off their clothes, and commanded to beat them. And when they had laid many stripes upon them, they cast them into prison, charging the jailor to keep them safely:
> Who, having received such a charge, thrust them into the inner prison, and made their feet fast in the stocks.
> 
> And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.
> 
> And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.
> 
> And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
> 
> But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
> 
> Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
> 
> And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
> 
> And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
> 
> And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
> 
> And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
> 
> And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
> 
> And when it was day, the magistrates sent the serjeants, saying, Let those men go.
> 
> And the keeper of the prison told this saying to Paul, The magistrates have sent to let you go: now therefore depart, and go in peace.
> 
> But Paul said unto them, They have beaten us openly uncondemned, being Romans, and have cast us into prison; and now do they thrust us out privily? nay verily; but let them come themselves and fetch us out.
> 
> And the serjeants told these words unto the magistrates: and they feared, when they heard that they were Romans.
> 
> And they came and besought them, and brought them out, and desired them to depart out of the city.
> 
> And they went out of the prison, and entered into the house of Lydia: and when they had seen the brethren, they comforted them, and departed.
> _______
> 
> You see, Igrok, your government may succeed in causing your people of Russian Orthodox Church to spy on and  to turn in those who preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ as Paul and the Apostles did, but they cannot stop the Holy Spirit from performing the work Which He was sent to do!  The salvation of souls!  This is the work of God and no man, no government, no kingdom of the earth can stop it.  The gates of hell shall not prevail against God's church.  Who is God's church?  Those who have believed upon the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation even as the Jailer and his family did do......_this _is the true Church!  The body of Christ wherever they may be.  Where two or more are gathered together *in His Name* - there in the midst is Jesus Christ and how glorious such a gathering is.  This is true church. Not a building, not a denomination, not an organization, no, no, no....  Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is Liberty!  I will be praying for you that the Holy Spirit visits you and reveals Jesus Christ to you that you and your whole household may be saved!  Truly the Lord is merciful, kind, longsuffering and not willing that any should perish but that all should believe on Him for the gift of salvation.  It is only through Jesus Christ that we can be saved - by believing upon Him - not our own good works  - certainly not by membership to a church - no church membership can assure us salvation. It is a free gift!  It cannot be earned!   Only Jesus Christ can give us the gift of eternal life and it is through Him that we receive. By believing upon Him only and that God raised him from the dead. He died on the cross for our sins and if we believe this and will repent of our sins (all of us have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God) and call upon His name He will save us.  The offer is to whosoever will believe upon Him.  Whosoever means who ever will believe - He will receive that one. What a promise!  What love God has shown us!  Let us receive the truth and walk in it until He comes again to gather His Bride.
Click to expand...

Not only The Bible but its treatment matters. The treatment in Orthodox Churches differs from whose in other 'denominations'. That makes the difference.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Igrok_ said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If that be true then why did Russia just enact laws on July 20, 2016 making it illegal for any Protestant or Christian of any denomination to share their faith with their own children inside their own home, invite a family member to church online or in public?  Why did they make it a law that Christians are only permitted to speak about their faith inside a church building or at a designated religious site pre- approved by the Russian government?
> 
> Russia's Newest Law: No Evangelizing Outside of Church
> UPDATE: Putin Approves Law Making It Illegal to Share the Gospel Outside of Russian Churches
> Russia puts lid on Christians sharing faith
> Russia: Christians banned from discussing faith outside church - Premier Christian Radio
> 
> Is this how you define Russia's support of freedom for Christians?  To threaten these people with arrest and prosecution if they fail to comply?
> 
> If Putin were to change his mind about this law and decree it unjust I would be persuaded to believe you and soften my opinion of him but _is_ he a man that would consider _all_ of the Christians of Russia and not just the consideration of the Russian Orthodox Church?  That is yet to be determined.  I'll be waiting to see what he does.
> 
> On the matter of the USA defeating the Russian hockey team in 1980... I have already told you why there was never another such victory.  The rules were changed and thereafter the American teams were forced to change to "Dream Teams."  I should challenge the title, as it is more likened to "Disaster Teams."
> 
> You've proven my point quite nicely.  I must thank you, Igrok.
> 
> In closing, my conflict is not with the people of Russia but rather their government which has not done them any favors.
> 
> 
> 
> The freedom is about when each man in the state can do what he wants. Really? If i am the programmer i do not like Putin or whoever to give me advices how to write a code. Also if you are the president why one should give you advices how to do your job best? That is the point. That is why russian do not like revolutions and citizen's rights. Cause it is out of your business. If want to take part in political life - ok, be the politician. That is all.
> Secondary, from the 988 russia was built by russian orthodox church. It was untill 1917 year the main religion, absolute majority of russians were orthodox christians. So now russia backs to its roots. Other "christian denominations" are out of russian culture and russian traditions. So, this is russian freedom - to be in accordance with Orthodox Church as much as possible. If you do not know, according to Orthodoxy, this religion is the only one has the Holy Spirit, and God inside it.
> And another point is that there is plenty of old soviet people there who really want to ressurect USSR, i hope during the time they will gone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Russian Orthodox Church is the only one that has the Holy Spirit?  Who told you that?  That is not what the Word of God says, Igrok.  The Word of God is the final authority.  Not the Russian Orthodox Church!  There is one common denominator in all cults.  What is that? That they alone have the truth.  Yes, man has been attempting to control the people through " dead religion & it's rituals" from the days of the Apostles and subsequently the Apostle Paul & his brethren were cast into prison cells for proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ.   What happened then?  The Lord met them in the jails and even a jailer and his entire household were saved as a result!  Do you recall this story?
> 
> And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
> The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
> 
> And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
> 
> And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers, And brought them to the magistrates, saying, These men, being Jews, do exceedingly trouble our city, And teach customs, which are not lawful for us to receive, neither to observe, being Romans.
> 
> And the multitude rose up together against them: and the magistrates rent off their clothes, and commanded to beat them. And when they had laid many stripes upon them, they cast them into prison, charging the jailor to keep them safely:
> Who, having received such a charge, thrust them into the inner prison, and made their feet fast in the stocks.
> 
> And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.
> 
> And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.
> 
> And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
> 
> But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
> 
> Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
> 
> And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
> 
> And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
> 
> And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
> 
> And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
> 
> And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
> 
> And when it was day, the magistrates sent the serjeants, saying, Let those men go.
> 
> And the keeper of the prison told this saying to Paul, The magistrates have sent to let you go: now therefore depart, and go in peace.
> 
> But Paul said unto them, They have beaten us openly uncondemned, being Romans, and have cast us into prison; and now do they thrust us out privily? nay verily; but let them come themselves and fetch us out.
> 
> And the serjeants told these words unto the magistrates: and they feared, when they heard that they were Romans.
> 
> And they came and besought them, and brought them out, and desired them to depart out of the city.
> 
> And they went out of the prison, and entered into the house of Lydia: and when they had seen the brethren, they comforted them, and departed.
> _______
> 
> You see, Igrok, your government may succeed in causing your people of Russian Orthodox Church to spy on and  to turn in those who preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ as Paul and the Apostles did, but they cannot stop the Holy Spirit from performing the work Which He was sent to do!  The salvation of souls!  This is the work of God and no man, no government, no kingdom of the earth can stop it.  The gates of hell shall not prevail against God's church.  Who is God's church?  Those who have believed upon the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation even as the Jailer and his family did do......_this _is the true Church!  The body of Christ wherever they may be.  Where two or more are gathered together *in His Name* - there in the midst is Jesus Christ and how glorious such a gathering is.  This is true church. Not a building, not a denomination, not an organization, no, no, no....  Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is Liberty!  I will be praying for you that the Holy Spirit visits you and reveals Jesus Christ to you that you and your whole household may be saved!  Truly the Lord is merciful, kind, longsuffering and not willing that any should perish but that all should believe on Him for the gift of salvation.  It is only through Jesus Christ that we can be saved - by believing upon Him - not our own good works  - certainly not by membership to a church - no church membership can assure us salvation. It is a free gift!  It cannot be earned!   Only Jesus Christ can give us the gift of eternal life and it is through Him that we receive. By believing upon Him only and that God raised him from the dead. He died on the cross for our sins and if we believe this and will repent of our sins (all of us have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God) and call upon His name He will save us.  The offer is to whosoever will believe upon Him.  Whosoever means who ever will believe - He will receive that one. What a promise!  What love God has shown us!  Let us receive the truth and walk in it until He comes again to gather His Bride.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not only The Bible but its treatment matters. The treatment in Orthodox Churches differs from whose in other 'denominations'. That makes the difference.
Click to expand...

Only the King James Holy bible defines who is and who is not a follower of Jesus Christ.  Not a denomination.  With that, you said,  In your country freedom - it is not when one can copulate with who he likes (man and woman), not when you could make propaganda about unofficial religions which make harm to whose who follow it, not when man has to spend all his life to get rich or die trying.....

On all these points I must agree with you.  You are correct.  We were not given our freedom to walk in sins of the flesh - to become fornicators, idolaters, to preach a Gospel of prosperity which cannot be found anywhere in the Holy Bible.  Clearly Jesus Christ had no place to lay His Head!  Whatever these false preachers are preaching we know this is not the truth because Christ never preached such a message.  The believer in Christ is to lay up his / her treasure in heaven where moth cannot eat it, where it cannot rust.......  woe unto the man who heaps up treasure in the last days!  It will testify against him and eat his flesh! This is the Word of God but how few are willing to abide in Christ much less endeavor for His Words to abide in them!  Nevertheless, though none go with me, I follow Jesus Christ. 

Not religion, not a church denomination, not a man with a Tiara on his head or an ornate robe upon his back but Jesus Christ - this is who we must follow.  Our need is not one of religion but of a personal relationship with God through His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ. 

Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life, no man can come to the Father except through the Son.

A church cannot do this for us.  A man cannot open heaven's gates to us.  Only by faith can we enter in. The just shall live by faith.  It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.  What is God's Word?  It is written in the Holy Scriptures which are found in the King James Holy Bible.  Jesus Christ is the Bread of Life, Jesus Christ is the Living Word of God.  Jesus Christ is the Word that became flesh and dwelt among men.  Why? So that he could go to the cross at Calvary, die on that cross, God raised him from the dead and by believing on Him we are reconciled back to God. 

Until we receive Jesus Christ by faith, we remain condemned in our sins.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

I appreciate the time you've given me to tell you what I believe.  I must apologize to you, Igrok.  I feel I was too harsh in my delivery of American history vs. Russian history.  I know full well the judgment of God that is falling upon my own country.  When I see certain people who know what is coming talk to my fellow countrymen of pie in the sky dreams such as Trump and Putin's favor towards him it makes my blood boil.  It is enough that my country is under the judgment of God.  I do not need the very people who know how it shall be delivered to inflict further pain by giving them a false hope that does not exist.  If you were in my place, you'd feel the same I suspect.  My people do not need to look for a future safety in Trump.  They need to look for their future safety in Christ.  He alone is able to sustain them in the time that is coming.  No human is capable of such a thing.  Only Jesus Christ.


----------



## Igrok_

Jeremiah said:


> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If that be true then why did Russia just enact laws on July 20, 2016 making it illegal for any Protestant or Christian of any denomination to share their faith with their own children inside their own home, invite a family member to church online or in public?  Why did they make it a law that Christians are only permitted to speak about their faith inside a church building or at a designated religious site pre- approved by the Russian government?
> 
> Russia's Newest Law: No Evangelizing Outside of Church
> UPDATE: Putin Approves Law Making It Illegal to Share the Gospel Outside of Russian Churches
> Russia puts lid on Christians sharing faith
> Russia: Christians banned from discussing faith outside church - Premier Christian Radio
> 
> Is this how you define Russia's support of freedom for Christians?  To threaten these people with arrest and prosecution if they fail to comply?
> 
> If Putin were to change his mind about this law and decree it unjust I would be persuaded to believe you and soften my opinion of him but _is_ he a man that would consider _all_ of the Christians of Russia and not just the consideration of the Russian Orthodox Church?  That is yet to be determined.  I'll be waiting to see what he does.
> 
> On the matter of the USA defeating the Russian hockey team in 1980... I have already told you why there was never another such victory.  The rules were changed and thereafter the American teams were forced to change to "Dream Teams."  I should challenge the title, as it is more likened to "Disaster Teams."
> 
> You've proven my point quite nicely.  I must thank you, Igrok.
> 
> In closing, my conflict is not with the people of Russia but rather their government which has not done them any favors.
> 
> 
> 
> The freedom is about when each man in the state can do what he wants. Really? If i am the programmer i do not like Putin or whoever to give me advices how to write a code. Also if you are the president why one should give you advices how to do your job best? That is the point. That is why russian do not like revolutions and citizen's rights. Cause it is out of your business. If want to take part in political life - ok, be the politician. That is all.
> Secondary, from the 988 russia was built by russian orthodox church. It was untill 1917 year the main religion, absolute majority of russians were orthodox christians. So now russia backs to its roots. Other "christian denominations" are out of russian culture and russian traditions. So, this is russian freedom - to be in accordance with Orthodox Church as much as possible. If you do not know, according to Orthodoxy, this religion is the only one has the Holy Spirit, and God inside it.
> And another point is that there is plenty of old soviet people there who really want to ressurect USSR, i hope during the time they will gone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Russian Orthodox Church is the only one that has the Holy Spirit?  Who told you that?  That is not what the Word of God says, Igrok.  The Word of God is the final authority.  Not the Russian Orthodox Church!  There is one common denominator in all cults.  What is that? That they alone have the truth.  Yes, man has been attempting to control the people through " dead religion & it's rituals" from the days of the Apostles and subsequently the Apostle Paul & his brethren were cast into prison cells for proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ.   What happened then?  The Lord met them in the jails and even a jailer and his entire household were saved as a result!  Do you recall this story?
> 
> And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
> The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
> 
> And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
> 
> And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers, And brought them to the magistrates, saying, These men, being Jews, do exceedingly trouble our city, And teach customs, which are not lawful for us to receive, neither to observe, being Romans.
> 
> And the multitude rose up together against them: and the magistrates rent off their clothes, and commanded to beat them. And when they had laid many stripes upon them, they cast them into prison, charging the jailor to keep them safely:
> Who, having received such a charge, thrust them into the inner prison, and made their feet fast in the stocks.
> 
> And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.
> 
> And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.
> 
> And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
> 
> But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
> 
> Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
> 
> And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
> 
> And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
> 
> And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
> 
> And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
> 
> And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
> 
> And when it was day, the magistrates sent the serjeants, saying, Let those men go.
> 
> And the keeper of the prison told this saying to Paul, The magistrates have sent to let you go: now therefore depart, and go in peace.
> 
> But Paul said unto them, They have beaten us openly uncondemned, being Romans, and have cast us into prison; and now do they thrust us out privily? nay verily; but let them come themselves and fetch us out.
> 
> And the serjeants told these words unto the magistrates: and they feared, when they heard that they were Romans.
> 
> And they came and besought them, and brought them out, and desired them to depart out of the city.
> 
> And they went out of the prison, and entered into the house of Lydia: and when they had seen the brethren, they comforted them, and departed.
> _______
> 
> You see, Igrok, your government may succeed in causing your people of Russian Orthodox Church to spy on and  to turn in those who preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ as Paul and the Apostles did, but they cannot stop the Holy Spirit from performing the work Which He was sent to do!  The salvation of souls!  This is the work of God and no man, no government, no kingdom of the earth can stop it.  The gates of hell shall not prevail against God's church.  Who is God's church?  Those who have believed upon the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation even as the Jailer and his family did do......_this _is the true Church!  The body of Christ wherever they may be.  Where two or more are gathered together *in His Name* - there in the midst is Jesus Christ and how glorious such a gathering is.  This is true church. Not a building, not a denomination, not an organization, no, no, no....  Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is Liberty!  I will be praying for you that the Holy Spirit visits you and reveals Jesus Christ to you that you and your whole household may be saved!  Truly the Lord is merciful, kind, longsuffering and not willing that any should perish but that all should believe on Him for the gift of salvation.  It is only through Jesus Christ that we can be saved - by believing upon Him - not our own good works  - certainly not by membership to a church - no church membership can assure us salvation. It is a free gift!  It cannot be earned!   Only Jesus Christ can give us the gift of eternal life and it is through Him that we receive. By believing upon Him only and that God raised him from the dead. He died on the cross for our sins and if we believe this and will repent of our sins (all of us have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God) and call upon His name He will save us.  The offer is to whosoever will believe upon Him.  Whosoever means who ever will believe - He will receive that one. What a promise!  What love God has shown us!  Let us receive the truth and walk in it until He comes again to gather His Bride.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not only The Bible but its treatment matters. The treatment in Orthodox Churches differs from whose in other 'denominations'. That makes the difference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only the King James Holy bible defines who is and who is not a follower of Jesus Christ.  Not a denomination.  With that, you said,  In your country freedom - it is not when one can copulate with who he likes (man and woman), not when you could make propaganda about unofficial religions which make harm to whose who follow it, not when man has to spend all his life to get rich or die trying.....
> 
> On all these points I must agree with you.  You are correct.  We were not given our freedom to walk in sins of the flesh - to become fornicators, idolaters, to preach a Gospel of prosperity which cannot be found anywhere in the Holy Bible.  Clearly Jesus Christ had no place to lay His Head!  Whatever these false preachers are preaching we know this is not the truth because Christ never preached such a message.  The believer in Christ is to lay up his / her treasure in heaven where moth cannot eat it, where it cannot rust.......  woe unto the man who heaps up treasure in the last days!  It will testify against him and eat his flesh! This is the Word of God but how few are willing to abide in Christ much less endeavor for His Words to abide in them!  Nevertheless, though none go with me, I follow Jesus Christ.
> 
> Not religion, not a church denomination, not a man with a Tiara on his head or an ornate robe upon his back but Jesus Christ - this is who we must follow.  Our need is not one of religion but of a personal relationship with God through His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ.
> 
> Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life, no man can come to the Father except through the Son.
> 
> A church cannot do this for us.  A man cannot open heaven's gates to us.  Only by faith can we enter in. The just shall live by faith.  It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.  What is God's Word?  It is written in the Holy Scriptures which are found in the King James Holy Bible.  Jesus Christ is the Bread of Life, Jesus Christ is the Living Word of God.  Jesus Christ is the Word that became flesh and dwelt among men.  Why? So that he could go to the cross at Calvary, die on that cross, God raised him from the dead and by believing on Him we are reconciled back to God.
> 
> Until we receive Jesus Christ by faith, we remain condemned in our sins.
Click to expand...

For you (protestants) the faith is something that you have to do without answer. That is why your commentaries look like they are without foundation in experience. In orthodoxy there is spiritual delusion('prelest'), this word means the state, when man confuse the Holy Spirit with the devil's actions. 

Read about this. For example, here: Archpriest Andrew Phillips. ‘Prelest’ and Conversion / OrthoChristian.Com


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Igrok_ said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If that be true then why did Russia just enact laws on July 20, 2016 making it illegal for any Protestant or Christian of any denomination to share their faith with their own children inside their own home, invite a family member to church online or in public?  Why did they make it a law that Christians are only permitted to speak about their faith inside a church building or at a designated religious site pre- approved by the Russian government?
> 
> Russia's Newest Law: No Evangelizing Outside of Church
> UPDATE: Putin Approves Law Making It Illegal to Share the Gospel Outside of Russian Churches
> Russia puts lid on Christians sharing faith
> Russia: Christians banned from discussing faith outside church - Premier Christian Radio
> 
> Is this how you define Russia's support of freedom for Christians?  To threaten these people with arrest and prosecution if they fail to comply?
> 
> If Putin were to change his mind about this law and decree it unjust I would be persuaded to believe you and soften my opinion of him but _is_ he a man that would consider _all_ of the Christians of Russia and not just the consideration of the Russian Orthodox Church?  That is yet to be determined.  I'll be waiting to see what he does.
> 
> On the matter of the USA defeating the Russian hockey team in 1980... I have already told you why there was never another such victory.  The rules were changed and thereafter the American teams were forced to change to "Dream Teams."  I should challenge the title, as it is more likened to "Disaster Teams."
> 
> You've proven my point quite nicely.  I must thank you, Igrok.
> 
> In closing, my conflict is not with the people of Russia but rather their government which has not done them any favors.
> 
> 
> 
> The freedom is about when each man in the state can do what he wants. Really? If i am the programmer i do not like Putin or whoever to give me advices how to write a code. Also if you are the president why one should give you advices how to do your job best? That is the point. That is why russian do not like revolutions and citizen's rights. Cause it is out of your business. If want to take part in political life - ok, be the politician. That is all.
> Secondary, from the 988 russia was built by russian orthodox church. It was untill 1917 year the main religion, absolute majority of russians were orthodox christians. So now russia backs to its roots. Other "christian denominations" are out of russian culture and russian traditions. So, this is russian freedom - to be in accordance with Orthodox Church as much as possible. If you do not know, according to Orthodoxy, this religion is the only one has the Holy Spirit, and God inside it.
> And another point is that there is plenty of old soviet people there who really want to ressurect USSR, i hope during the time they will gone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Russian Orthodox Church is the only one that has the Holy Spirit?  Who told you that?  That is not what the Word of God says, Igrok.  The Word of God is the final authority.  Not the Russian Orthodox Church!  There is one common denominator in all cults.  What is that? That they alone have the truth.  Yes, man has been attempting to control the people through " dead religion & it's rituals" from the days of the Apostles and subsequently the Apostle Paul & his brethren were cast into prison cells for proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ.   What happened then?  The Lord met them in the jails and even a jailer and his entire household were saved as a result!  Do you recall this story?
> 
> And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
> The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
> 
> And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
> 
> And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers, And brought them to the magistrates, saying, These men, being Jews, do exceedingly trouble our city, And teach customs, which are not lawful for us to receive, neither to observe, being Romans.
> 
> And the multitude rose up together against them: and the magistrates rent off their clothes, and commanded to beat them. And when they had laid many stripes upon them, they cast them into prison, charging the jailor to keep them safely:
> Who, having received such a charge, thrust them into the inner prison, and made their feet fast in the stocks.
> 
> And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.
> 
> And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.
> 
> And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
> 
> But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
> 
> Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
> 
> And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
> 
> And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
> 
> And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
> 
> And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
> 
> And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
> 
> And when it was day, the magistrates sent the serjeants, saying, Let those men go.
> 
> And the keeper of the prison told this saying to Paul, The magistrates have sent to let you go: now therefore depart, and go in peace.
> 
> But Paul said unto them, They have beaten us openly uncondemned, being Romans, and have cast us into prison; and now do they thrust us out privily? nay verily; but let them come themselves and fetch us out.
> 
> And the serjeants told these words unto the magistrates: and they feared, when they heard that they were Romans.
> 
> And they came and besought them, and brought them out, and desired them to depart out of the city.
> 
> And they went out of the prison, and entered into the house of Lydia: and when they had seen the brethren, they comforted them, and departed.
> _______
> 
> You see, Igrok, your government may succeed in causing your people of Russian Orthodox Church to spy on and  to turn in those who preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ as Paul and the Apostles did, but they cannot stop the Holy Spirit from performing the work Which He was sent to do!  The salvation of souls!  This is the work of God and no man, no government, no kingdom of the earth can stop it.  The gates of hell shall not prevail against God's church.  Who is God's church?  Those who have believed upon the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation even as the Jailer and his family did do......_this _is the true Church!  The body of Christ wherever they may be.  Where two or more are gathered together *in His Name* - there in the midst is Jesus Christ and how glorious such a gathering is.  This is true church. Not a building, not a denomination, not an organization, no, no, no....  Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is Liberty!  I will be praying for you that the Holy Spirit visits you and reveals Jesus Christ to you that you and your whole household may be saved!  Truly the Lord is merciful, kind, longsuffering and not willing that any should perish but that all should believe on Him for the gift of salvation.  It is only through Jesus Christ that we can be saved - by believing upon Him - not our own good works  - certainly not by membership to a church - no church membership can assure us salvation. It is a free gift!  It cannot be earned!   Only Jesus Christ can give us the gift of eternal life and it is through Him that we receive. By believing upon Him only and that God raised him from the dead. He died on the cross for our sins and if we believe this and will repent of our sins (all of us have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God) and call upon His name He will save us.  The offer is to whosoever will believe upon Him.  Whosoever means who ever will believe - He will receive that one. What a promise!  What love God has shown us!  Let us receive the truth and walk in it until He comes again to gather His Bride.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not only The Bible but its treatment matters. The treatment in Orthodox Churches differs from whose in other 'denominations'. That makes the difference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only the King James Holy bible defines who is and who is not a follower of Jesus Christ.  Not a denomination.  With that, you said,  In your country freedom - it is not when one can copulate with who he likes (man and woman), not when you could make propaganda about unofficial religions which make harm to whose who follow it, not when man has to spend all his life to get rich or die trying.....
> 
> On all these points I must agree with you.  You are correct.  We were not given our freedom to walk in sins of the flesh - to become fornicators, idolaters, to preach a Gospel of prosperity which cannot be found anywhere in the Holy Bible.  Clearly Jesus Christ had no place to lay His Head!  Whatever these false preachers are preaching we know this is not the truth because Christ never preached such a message.  The believer in Christ is to lay up his / her treasure in heaven where moth cannot eat it, where it cannot rust.......  woe unto the man who heaps up treasure in the last days!  It will testify against him and eat his flesh! This is the Word of God but how few are willing to abide in Christ much less endeavor for His Words to abide in them!  Nevertheless, though none go with me, I follow Jesus Christ.
> 
> Not religion, not a church denomination, not a man with a Tiara on his head or an ornate robe upon his back but Jesus Christ - this is who we must follow.  Our need is not one of religion but of a personal relationship with God through His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ.
> 
> Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life, no man can come to the Father except through the Son.
> 
> A church cannot do this for us.  A man cannot open heaven's gates to us.  Only by faith can we enter in. The just shall live by faith.  It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.  What is God's Word?  It is written in the Holy Scriptures which are found in the King James Holy Bible.  Jesus Christ is the Bread of Life, Jesus Christ is the Living Word of God.  Jesus Christ is the Word that became flesh and dwelt among men.  Why? So that he could go to the cross at Calvary, die on that cross, God raised him from the dead and by believing on Him we are reconciled back to God.
> 
> Until we receive Jesus Christ by faith, we remain condemned in our sins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For you (protestants) the faith is something that you have to do without answer. That is why your commentaries look like they are without foundation in experience. In orthodoxy there is spiritual delusion('prelest'), this word means the state, when man confuse the Holy Spirit with the devil's actions.
> 
> Read about this. For example, here: Archpriest Andrew Phillips. ‘Prelest’ and Conversion / OrthoChristian.Com
Click to expand...


I am not sure of what commentaries you are referring to, Igrok.  Our faith is set upon the Rock of ages, Jesus Christ.  We stand on the Word of God which is pure.  Therein there can be no confusion about what is of God and what is not of God.  The very Word of God is what we are standing upon.  Not the doctrines of men, but the Doctrine of Jesus Christ.  God's Word shall endure for ever.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Igrok_ said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If that be true then why did Russia just enact laws on July 20, 2016 making it illegal for any Protestant or Christian of any denomination to share their faith with their own children inside their own home, invite a family member to church online or in public?  Why did they make it a law that Christians are only permitted to speak about their faith inside a church building or at a designated religious site pre- approved by the Russian government?
> 
> Russia's Newest Law: No Evangelizing Outside of Church
> UPDATE: Putin Approves Law Making It Illegal to Share the Gospel Outside of Russian Churches
> Russia puts lid on Christians sharing faith
> Russia: Christians banned from discussing faith outside church - Premier Christian Radio
> 
> Is this how you define Russia's support of freedom for Christians?  To threaten these people with arrest and prosecution if they fail to comply?
> 
> If Putin were to change his mind about this law and decree it unjust I would be persuaded to believe you and soften my opinion of him but _is_ he a man that would consider _all_ of the Christians of Russia and not just the consideration of the Russian Orthodox Church?  That is yet to be determined.  I'll be waiting to see what he does.
> 
> On the matter of the USA defeating the Russian hockey team in 1980... I have already told you why there was never another such victory.  The rules were changed and thereafter the American teams were forced to change to "Dream Teams."  I should challenge the title, as it is more likened to "Disaster Teams."
> 
> You've proven my point quite nicely.  I must thank you, Igrok.
> 
> In closing, my conflict is not with the people of Russia but rather their government which has not done them any favors.
> 
> 
> 
> The freedom is about when each man in the state can do what he wants. Really? If i am the programmer i do not like Putin or whoever to give me advices how to write a code. Also if you are the president why one should give you advices how to do your job best? That is the point. That is why russian do not like revolutions and citizen's rights. Cause it is out of your business. If want to take part in political life - ok, be the politician. That is all.
> Secondary, from the 988 russia was built by russian orthodox church. It was untill 1917 year the main religion, absolute majority of russians were orthodox christians. So now russia backs to its roots. Other "christian denominations" are out of russian culture and russian traditions. So, this is russian freedom - to be in accordance with Orthodox Church as much as possible. If you do not know, according to Orthodoxy, this religion is the only one has the Holy Spirit, and God inside it.
> And another point is that there is plenty of old soviet people there who really want to ressurect USSR, i hope during the time they will gone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Russian Orthodox Church is the only one that has the Holy Spirit?  Who told you that?  That is not what the Word of God says, Igrok.  The Word of God is the final authority.  Not the Russian Orthodox Church!  There is one common denominator in all cults.  What is that? That they alone have the truth.  Yes, man has been attempting to control the people through " dead religion & it's rituals" from the days of the Apostles and subsequently the Apostle Paul & his brethren were cast into prison cells for proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ.   What happened then?  The Lord met them in the jails and even a jailer and his entire household were saved as a result!  Do you recall this story?
> 
> And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
> The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
> 
> And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
> 
> And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers, And brought them to the magistrates, saying, These men, being Jews, do exceedingly trouble our city, And teach customs, which are not lawful for us to receive, neither to observe, being Romans.
> 
> And the multitude rose up together against them: and the magistrates rent off their clothes, and commanded to beat them. And when they had laid many stripes upon them, they cast them into prison, charging the jailor to keep them safely:
> Who, having received such a charge, thrust them into the inner prison, and made their feet fast in the stocks.
> 
> And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.
> 
> And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.
> 
> And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
> 
> But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
> 
> Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
> 
> And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
> 
> And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
> 
> And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
> 
> And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
> 
> And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
> 
> And when it was day, the magistrates sent the serjeants, saying, Let those men go.
> 
> And the keeper of the prison told this saying to Paul, The magistrates have sent to let you go: now therefore depart, and go in peace.
> 
> But Paul said unto them, They have beaten us openly uncondemned, being Romans, and have cast us into prison; and now do they thrust us out privily? nay verily; but let them come themselves and fetch us out.
> 
> And the serjeants told these words unto the magistrates: and they feared, when they heard that they were Romans.
> 
> And they came and besought them, and brought them out, and desired them to depart out of the city.
> 
> And they went out of the prison, and entered into the house of Lydia: and when they had seen the brethren, they comforted them, and departed.
> _______
> 
> You see, Igrok, your government may succeed in causing your people of Russian Orthodox Church to spy on and  to turn in those who preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ as Paul and the Apostles did, but they cannot stop the Holy Spirit from performing the work Which He was sent to do!  The salvation of souls!  This is the work of God and no man, no government, no kingdom of the earth can stop it.  The gates of hell shall not prevail against God's church.  Who is God's church?  Those who have believed upon the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation even as the Jailer and his family did do......_this _is the true Church!  The body of Christ wherever they may be.  Where two or more are gathered together *in His Name* - there in the midst is Jesus Christ and how glorious such a gathering is.  This is true church. Not a building, not a denomination, not an organization, no, no, no....  Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is Liberty!  I will be praying for you that the Holy Spirit visits you and reveals Jesus Christ to you that you and your whole household may be saved!  Truly the Lord is merciful, kind, longsuffering and not willing that any should perish but that all should believe on Him for the gift of salvation.  It is only through Jesus Christ that we can be saved - by believing upon Him - not our own good works  - certainly not by membership to a church - no church membership can assure us salvation. It is a free gift!  It cannot be earned!   Only Jesus Christ can give us the gift of eternal life and it is through Him that we receive. By believing upon Him only and that God raised him from the dead. He died on the cross for our sins and if we believe this and will repent of our sins (all of us have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God) and call upon His name He will save us.  The offer is to whosoever will believe upon Him.  Whosoever means who ever will believe - He will receive that one. What a promise!  What love God has shown us!  Let us receive the truth and walk in it until He comes again to gather His Bride.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not only The Bible but its treatment matters. The treatment in Orthodox Churches differs from whose in other 'denominations'. That makes the difference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only the King James Holy bible defines who is and who is not a follower of Jesus Christ.  Not a denomination.  With that, you said,  In your country freedom - it is not when one can copulate with who he likes (man and woman), not when you could make propaganda about unofficial religions which make harm to whose who follow it, not when man has to spend all his life to get rich or die trying.....
> 
> On all these points I must agree with you.  You are correct.  We were not given our freedom to walk in sins of the flesh - to become fornicators, idolaters, to preach a Gospel of prosperity which cannot be found anywhere in the Holy Bible.  Clearly Jesus Christ had no place to lay His Head!  Whatever these false preachers are preaching we know this is not the truth because Christ never preached such a message.  The believer in Christ is to lay up his / her treasure in heaven where moth cannot eat it, where it cannot rust.......  woe unto the man who heaps up treasure in the last days!  It will testify against him and eat his flesh! This is the Word of God but how few are willing to abide in Christ much less endeavor for His Words to abide in them!  Nevertheless, though none go with me, I follow Jesus Christ.
> 
> Not religion, not a church denomination, not a man with a Tiara on his head or an ornate robe upon his back but Jesus Christ - this is who we must follow.  Our need is not one of religion but of a personal relationship with God through His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ.
> 
> Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life, no man can come to the Father except through the Son.
> 
> A church cannot do this for us.  A man cannot open heaven's gates to us.  Only by faith can we enter in. The just shall live by faith.  It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.  What is God's Word?  It is written in the Holy Scriptures which are found in the King James Holy Bible.  Jesus Christ is the Bread of Life, Jesus Christ is the Living Word of God.  Jesus Christ is the Word that became flesh and dwelt among men.  Why? So that he could go to the cross at Calvary, die on that cross, God raised him from the dead and by believing on Him we are reconciled back to God.
> 
> Until we receive Jesus Christ by faith, we remain condemned in our sins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For you (protestants) the faith is something that you have to do without answer. That is why your commentaries look like they are without foundation in experience. In orthodoxy there is spiritual delusion('prelest'), this word means the state, when man confuse the Holy Spirit with the devil's actions.
> 
> Read about this. For example, here: Archpriest Andrew Phillips. ‘Prelest’ and Conversion / OrthoChristian.Com
Click to expand...

_Try containing this inside the 4 walls of a church building. It is impossible!  The whole earth declares His Glory! _
___And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.   Luke 19:40_


----------



## Igrok_

Jeremiah said:


> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> The freedom is about when each man in the state can do what he wants. Really? If i am the programmer i do not like Putin or whoever to give me advices how to write a code. Also if you are the president why one should give you advices how to do your job best? That is the point. That is why russian do not like revolutions and citizen's rights. Cause it is out of your business. If want to take part in political life - ok, be the politician. That is all.
> Secondary, from the 988 russia was built by russian orthodox church. It was untill 1917 year the main religion, absolute majority of russians were orthodox christians. So now russia backs to its roots. Other "christian denominations" are out of russian culture and russian traditions. So, this is russian freedom - to be in accordance with Orthodox Church as much as possible. If you do not know, according to Orthodoxy, this religion is the only one has the Holy Spirit, and God inside it.
> And another point is that there is plenty of old soviet people there who really want to ressurect USSR, i hope during the time they will gone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Russian Orthodox Church is the only one that has the Holy Spirit?  Who told you that?  That is not what the Word of God says, Igrok.  The Word of God is the final authority.  Not the Russian Orthodox Church!  There is one common denominator in all cults.  What is that? That they alone have the truth.  Yes, man has been attempting to control the people through " dead religion & it's rituals" from the days of the Apostles and subsequently the Apostle Paul & his brethren were cast into prison cells for proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ.   What happened then?  The Lord met them in the jails and even a jailer and his entire household were saved as a result!  Do you recall this story?
> 
> And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
> The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
> 
> And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
> 
> And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers, And brought them to the magistrates, saying, These men, being Jews, do exceedingly trouble our city, And teach customs, which are not lawful for us to receive, neither to observe, being Romans.
> 
> And the multitude rose up together against them: and the magistrates rent off their clothes, and commanded to beat them. And when they had laid many stripes upon them, they cast them into prison, charging the jailor to keep them safely:
> Who, having received such a charge, thrust them into the inner prison, and made their feet fast in the stocks.
> 
> And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.
> 
> And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.
> 
> And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
> 
> But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
> 
> Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
> 
> And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
> 
> And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
> 
> And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
> 
> And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
> 
> And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
> 
> And when it was day, the magistrates sent the serjeants, saying, Let those men go.
> 
> And the keeper of the prison told this saying to Paul, The magistrates have sent to let you go: now therefore depart, and go in peace.
> 
> But Paul said unto them, They have beaten us openly uncondemned, being Romans, and have cast us into prison; and now do they thrust us out privily? nay verily; but let them come themselves and fetch us out.
> 
> And the serjeants told these words unto the magistrates: and they feared, when they heard that they were Romans.
> 
> And they came and besought them, and brought them out, and desired them to depart out of the city.
> 
> And they went out of the prison, and entered into the house of Lydia: and when they had seen the brethren, they comforted them, and departed.
> _______
> 
> You see, Igrok, your government may succeed in causing your people of Russian Orthodox Church to spy on and  to turn in those who preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ as Paul and the Apostles did, but they cannot stop the Holy Spirit from performing the work Which He was sent to do!  The salvation of souls!  This is the work of God and no man, no government, no kingdom of the earth can stop it.  The gates of hell shall not prevail against God's church.  Who is God's church?  Those who have believed upon the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation even as the Jailer and his family did do......_this _is the true Church!  The body of Christ wherever they may be.  Where two or more are gathered together *in His Name* - there in the midst is Jesus Christ and how glorious such a gathering is.  This is true church. Not a building, not a denomination, not an organization, no, no, no....  Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is Liberty!  I will be praying for you that the Holy Spirit visits you and reveals Jesus Christ to you that you and your whole household may be saved!  Truly the Lord is merciful, kind, longsuffering and not willing that any should perish but that all should believe on Him for the gift of salvation.  It is only through Jesus Christ that we can be saved - by believing upon Him - not our own good works  - certainly not by membership to a church - no church membership can assure us salvation. It is a free gift!  It cannot be earned!   Only Jesus Christ can give us the gift of eternal life and it is through Him that we receive. By believing upon Him only and that God raised him from the dead. He died on the cross for our sins and if we believe this and will repent of our sins (all of us have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God) and call upon His name He will save us.  The offer is to whosoever will believe upon Him.  Whosoever means who ever will believe - He will receive that one. What a promise!  What love God has shown us!  Let us receive the truth and walk in it until He comes again to gather His Bride.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not only The Bible but its treatment matters. The treatment in Orthodox Churches differs from whose in other 'denominations'. That makes the difference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only the King James Holy bible defines who is and who is not a follower of Jesus Christ.  Not a denomination.  With that, you said,  In your country freedom - it is not when one can copulate with who he likes (man and woman), not when you could make propaganda about unofficial religions which make harm to whose who follow it, not when man has to spend all his life to get rich or die trying.....
> 
> On all these points I must agree with you.  You are correct.  We were not given our freedom to walk in sins of the flesh - to become fornicators, idolaters, to preach a Gospel of prosperity which cannot be found anywhere in the Holy Bible.  Clearly Jesus Christ had no place to lay His Head!  Whatever these false preachers are preaching we know this is not the truth because Christ never preached such a message.  The believer in Christ is to lay up his / her treasure in heaven where moth cannot eat it, where it cannot rust.......  woe unto the man who heaps up treasure in the last days!  It will testify against him and eat his flesh! This is the Word of God but how few are willing to abide in Christ much less endeavor for His Words to abide in them!  Nevertheless, though none go with me, I follow Jesus Christ.
> 
> Not religion, not a church denomination, not a man with a Tiara on his head or an ornate robe upon his back but Jesus Christ - this is who we must follow.  Our need is not one of religion but of a personal relationship with God through His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ.
> 
> Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life, no man can come to the Father except through the Son.
> 
> A church cannot do this for us.  A man cannot open heaven's gates to us.  Only by faith can we enter in. The just shall live by faith.  It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.  What is God's Word?  It is written in the Holy Scriptures which are found in the King James Holy Bible.  Jesus Christ is the Bread of Life, Jesus Christ is the Living Word of God.  Jesus Christ is the Word that became flesh and dwelt among men.  Why? So that he could go to the cross at Calvary, die on that cross, God raised him from the dead and by believing on Him we are reconciled back to God.
> 
> Until we receive Jesus Christ by faith, we remain condemned in our sins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For you (protestants) the faith is something that you have to do without answer. That is why your commentaries look like they are without foundation in experience. In orthodoxy there is spiritual delusion('prelest'), this word means the state, when man confuse the Holy Spirit with the devil's actions.
> 
> Read about this. For example, here: Archpriest Andrew Phillips. ‘Prelest’ and Conversion / OrthoChristian.Com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Try containing this inside the 4 walls of a church building. It is impossible!  The whole earth declares His Glory! _
> ___And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.   Luke 19:40_
Click to expand...

That is all about soul. Religion is about spirit. But you do not know, what is it.


----------



## anotherlife

I am an American living in Europe, and I can see that Americans will never comprehend that happiness is not all about running after things to catch up with them after you sell them out.


----------



## anotherlife

Jeremiah said:


> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Futhermore, originally he was a murderer not as a politician, but in common sense. During his job in communist party in the early 20th century he was killing and robbing people as a member of a gang. All the communists - were more or less connected with criminal world, gangsters - were their allies as the class that had nothing to lose and most opposed to Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> Reminds you of Vladimir Putin, doesn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> not really. In his young ages Putin was an excellent pupil, was good in judo. Nowadays according to his very strange laws he makes me think a lot of about USSR resurrection, but still i hope that this is just an illusion
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think what Putin sees is that his homeland is being divided by unnamed powers behind France and the EU once again, like kolchak, denikin, and other anti revolutionary generals tried to divide Soviet Russia for France during ww1.  It would be bad news if Putin recreates Soviet Russia, but what other options are possible under this renewed isolation by the "international community"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In Soviet time the will to isolate the country was on the USSR's side. Nowadays Russia seeks methods to get rid of it. And finds it. In all cases (equipment provision or other interactions) Russia gets what it wants, because it is profitable for both sides. And if US or Europe do not want to provide their service, it is possible to have interaction with Asia or Middle East to get this (or get american production via "special purpose vehicle"). There is no problem here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here is the difference between the history of America and Russia.  American history - her greatest victories - inventions - massive wealth - prosperity - were because of her faith in God and being called of God to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  No other nation on the face of the earth has ever been blessed the way the United States has been.  So America's blessings have come from God and our chastisement has and will come from God because we are not illegitimate children of God Almighty.
> 
> The history of Russia can make no such claim.  Their greatest victories were accomplished through communism, deception, lies, mass murder and satanic endeavors.  There was never a Russian government that sought the Lord Jesus Christ for success - no - your history is full of dark days of mass murderers, killing your own people, starving your own people, Gulags, Siberian wastelands, nothing but misery and hangovers from too much vodka........no wonder the term became famous "Russian Brides"........who would want this?  Drunken communists / wife beaters / railers are not what little girls grow up dreaming to marry, you know...  Even Stalin's daughter defected to the USA.  Who could blame her?
> 
> The truth is the dream of the Russian woman was to come to America because there was a time when America was known and called "The American Dream." American men were known to be among the most valiant soldiers, noble, kind hearted, successful and generous. All characteristics of Christian men.  There was a time when such men were plentiful in America...
> 
> Russia has no such history.  The world never knew any such title, The Russian dream.  Russian Gulag?  Yes. But who wants that?
> 
> Listen to me.   When it comes to Olympics - we used nothing more than a JV team to crush the Russians in the 1980's Hockey Olympic title.   How did this happen. I will tell you how.  Your leaders do not understand the importance of freedom and the human spirit.
> 
> I mean true freedom.  Freedom of the press, freedom of religion, freedom to vote in fair elections, freedom to start a business and prosper from it.
> 
> Your people defected from Russia because they wanted freedom from oppression, freedom from Kremlin, KGB and secret police.  Freedom from big brother.  Freedom from starvation and poverty.  They wanted to live their lives in a free country and therein they chose to live in America rather than Russia.  Again - who could blame them?  These people were created in the image of God and it is stamped upon their very soul to desire to be free and know God!  It is most natural to have such desires.  God gave mankind the desire for freedom!
> 
> The truth is the truth.  I pity the Russian people.  They have been brainwashed to believe lies against America and her people.  America's history was to stand on the side of those who were oppressed.  Which is why we fought for their liberty while your country sided with their persecutors and fought to see them remain slaves.
> 
> Your country has done nothing but brought you shame.  Your country has allies like North Korea, Cuba and China because this is their character.  Godless, soulless men who live off of the labor of others like parasites.  It's a disgraceful heritage.  I do understand why your people try so desperately to deflect the truth about their Motherland - Stratford and Tehon would seek to convince the American people all blame should be on America - but by the facts and foundation American history? You have all been proven dead wrong.
> 
> * On the subject of the defeat Russian hockey team suffered in 1980 - they cried like babies until they could change the rules of the game and force America to accept the "Dream Team" rules - since then?  No more wins for America.  You see, the Russians (government) cannot win fairly.  They must go behind the scenes and cheat, lie, steal, corrupt, bribe, murder........how do you think they sold their Marxist propaganda to this past generation of students in American colleges and Universities?
> 
> Again, I pity the people of Russia.  Yes, Putin will invade America (with his communist nation allies)  when China invades Taiwan and USA responds......but you should know that although the Lord uses the wicked for his sword (Psalm 17) - when he is finished - he will bring his judgment upon you and your country.  Then where will you be?
> 
> I pray you will do the right thing now and get on your hands and knees and repent of your sins and cry out for mercy to the Lord Jesus Christ.  You have no idea what you are getting into.  None at all.  Take my Word for it.
Click to expand...


It is possible that Putin is like a king that sees a tightly programmed international community trying to loot his people's villages.  It is not the first time when the international community takes people off the map.  What is a christian king supposed to do when such an enemy is stepping on his people?


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## American_Jihad

*NUCLEAR NOSTALGIA*
*Why the Left loved Stalin’s atomic bomb.*
August 29, 2017

Lloyd Billingsley






Fiftieth anniversaries tend to be the last, but not with war in general and nuclear weapons in particular. Every August 6, the day the United States dropped the atom bomb on Japan in 1945, the articles appear like clockwork, all with the same theme Gar Alperovitz outlined in _The Nation_ in 2015, on the 70th anniversary of Hiroshima.

The bomb was dropped, the U.S. generals said, to save the lives of thousands of Americans who would otherwise have been killed in an invasion of Japan, and brought the war to a close. For Alperovitz, that story is “largely myth,” and the USA was simply indulging malice, inflicting revenge, and above all scaring the Soviet Union with a demonstration of American military might. 

For Peter Kuznick, co-author with Oliver Stone of _The Untold History of the United States__,_President Truman “knew he was beginning the process of annihilation of the species,” so dropping the bomb was “not just a war crime; it was a crime against humanity.” And so forth, every August 6. A better day to remember would be August 29. 

On that day in 1949, at a remote site in Semipatalinsk, Kazakhstan, Josef Stalin’s USSR denoted a 20-kiloton atom bomb codenamed “First Lightning.” The Soviet scientists who worked on the bomb were honored as “Heroes of Socialist Labor,” but they had plenty of help from American Communists. 

...

Likewise, the American left has never been anti-war or anti-nuclear. The American left only opposes any American or Western advantage or victory in any conflict. Those are realities to remember on August 29, 2017, the 68th anniversary of Stalin’s “First Lightning” nuclear explosion, achieved with the assistance of American Stalinist spies.

Nuclear Nostalgia


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