# English should be the official language?



## BDBoop

Gingrich got applause at the debate for saying English should be our official language. Agree or disagree?


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## Xchel

Gingrich is wrong...English should not be our official language..the USA is not England.


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## BDBoop

I'm assuming you knew what he meant? We take English in high school, and we speak English. It has nothing to do with what country a person is in or from.


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## B. Kidd

BDBoop said:


> Gingrich got applause at the debate for saying English should be our official language. Agree or disagree?



Agree.

So, when are you gonna start speakin' it?


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## Ringel05

Sí, sí, el español debe ser nuestro idioma oficial, pero esto no significa que no debemos aprender otros idiomas.


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## B. Kidd

Ringel05 said:


> Sí, sí, el español debe ser nuestro idioma oficial, pero esto no significa que no debemos aprender otros idiomas.



So, how are your Japanese lessons coming along from 'Rosetta Stone'?


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## BDBoop

Ringel05 said:


> Sí, sí, el español debe ser nuestro idioma oficial, pero esto no significa que no debemos aprender otros idiomas.



Felice Navidad! No ciento. Yo quiero, Taco Bell.

/end thread


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## Ringel05

B. Kidd said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sí, sí, el español debe ser nuestro idioma oficial, pero esto no significa que no debemos aprender otros idiomas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, how are your Japanese lessons coming along from 'Rosetta Stone'?
Click to expand...


(Psst!  Chinese...... for when they take over......... Zai Jian!)


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## Sallow

BDBoop said:


> Gingrich got applause at the debate for saying English should be our official language. Agree or disagree?



One of the few things I agreed with him on.


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## Sherry

He actually said that it should be the official language of the United States government...which I assume is directed at bilingual education. There is definitely an argument to be made that it compels people to assimilate more quickly, but not sure if it needs to be "official".


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## Xchel

official language flies in the face of freedom of speech.  No it isn't what Gingrich meant...and Gingrich shouldn't be on any platform with his corrupt foolishness he needs to be hiding in a closet somewhere.


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## Ringel05

Xchel said:


> official language flies in the face of freedom of speech.  No it isn't what Gingrich meant...and Gingrich shouldn't be on any platform with his corrupt foolishness he needs to be hiding in a closet somewhere.


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## BDBoop

Sherry said:


> He actually said that it should be the official language of the United States government...which I assume is directed at bilingual education. There is definitely an argument to be made that it compels people to assimilate more quickly, but not sure if it needs to be "official".



That helps. Until I get a chance to actually watch the debates this weekend, I'm a bit short on facts.


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## Ernie S.

Ringel05 said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> official language flies in the face of freedom of speech.  No it isn't what Gingrich meant...and Gingrich shouldn't be on any platform with his corrupt foolishness he needs to be hiding in a closet somewhere.
Click to expand...


I agree. WTF has language to do with freedom of speech? Look xchel, You have the freedom to say what you want, in what ever language you choose, but if you say it in Spanish and no one gives a shit, no one will care.

Not that anyone cares when you you type in English...


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## AVG-JOE

No.  Not English.

I've been to England and they talk funny.  If we're going to have an official language, it should be 'American'.


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## Tank

Ebonish, it's a form of Ebonics and Spanish.


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## AVG-JOE

Sherry said:


> He actually said that it should be the official language of the United States government...which I assume is directed at bilingual education. There is definitely an argument to be made that it compels people to assimilate more quickly, but not sure if it needs to be "official".



Possibly directed at government paperwork... IRS forms & stuff.


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## BDBoop

AVG-JOE said:


> No.  Not English.
> 
> I've been to England and they talk funny.  If we're going to have an official language, it should be 'American'.



But there are no American classes in high school.

We obviously don't speak the Queen's English, but it is English nonetheless.


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## syrenn

Xchel said:


> Gingrich is wrong...English should not be our official language..the USA is not England.




Lets make this easy for you. Do mexicans speak mexican or spanish?


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## HenryBHough

American English would be a good official language.

British (aka "The Queen's" English) would be far too difficult for even a liberal with a so-called master's degree to comprehend.

OK, maybe with a hint of Ebonics just so we're not considered racist.


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## Xchel

1. the US has always been based on the idea we are a melting pot
2. we don't speak English we speak a combination of languages.  Words like faux pas are not English.
3. what exactly is it going to accomplish?
4. We weren't founded by English in reality...the natives were here first and there are so many languages and our language is so mixed that it makes no sense really.  Why not make it Cherokee if you want an official language? after all we aren't English and in reality no one here speaks English.


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## Xchel

First of all I am not Mexican. I am Cherokee Indian and Hispanic...so let's make it easy for you...get a life this is not England and we don't speak English here.  Furthermore, making any language EXCLUSIVE to any part of life makes it a violation of freedom of speech in the constitution.


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## syrenn

Xchel said:


> 1. the US has always been based on the idea we are a melting pot
> 2. we don't speak English we speak a combination of languages.  Words like faux pas are not English.
> 3. what exactly is it going to accomplish?
> 4. We weren't founded by English in reality...the natives were here first and there are so many languages and our language is so mixed that it makes no sense really.  Why not make it Cherokee if you want an official language? after all we aren't English and in reality no one here speaks English.



1) and who is stopping it from being a melting pot having english as an official language?
2) The whole world speaks a combination of languages. 
3) For one it will save the country a lot of money. 
4) Again.. ill make it easy for you. What language are highway signs in? 


5) ill put the same question to you again. What language do mexicans speak? mexican or spanish?


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## Xchel

A melting pot means no official language..especially when we have a bill of rights that includes everyone...

.In Meyer v. Nebraska, a landmark 1923 Supreme Court decision, the Court declared unconstitutional laws which restricted the use of non-English languages. In Meyer, the Supreme Court struck down a state statute that prohibited the teaching of any subject in a language other than English to students below ninth grade in public or private schools.

 1923 case, Bartels v. Iowa, an Iowa statute requiring that all teaching be conducted only in English was declared unconstitutional. In Yu Cong Eng v. Trinidad, a 1926 case, a state statute which prohibited the keeping of accounting books in any language other than English or Spanish was unconstitutional because it denied equal protection to Chinese immigrants.

 Title VI of the Civil Rights Act, programs that receive federal funding are prohibited from discrimination
How Can There Be Free Speech If It's Only In English?


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## Xchel

Mexicans speak a dialect of Spanish but not all of them..some of them speak other languages.  In fact, there are 68 languages of Mexico, but you clearly did not know that.  So which language would it be that they speak? Some of them speak Nauhutl, Yucatec Maya, Mixtec, Zapotec, TZeltal Maya, Otomi, Totonac, Mazatec, Chotl*mayan*, and the list goes on and on including Qu' che..a mayan language common in Central America as well...but in just Nauhutl there are almost 2 million speakers and a lot of them don't speak Spanish...so when you ask what do they speak either Mexican or Spanish you would be clearly leaving out a good section of the population of Mexico that doesn't speak Spanish or even a dialect of Spanish, because NO Mexicans do not speak Castillian Spanish they speak Mexican Spanish and or a dialect of native americans.  They also speak English, Chinese, Hebrew and the list goes on and on...do you really want to continue this or perhaps find out a little more about languages in Mexico before we go this route?


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## syrenn

Xchel said:


> Mexicans speak a dialect of Spanish but not all of them..some of them speak other languages.  In fact, there are 68 languages of Mexico, but you clearly did not know that.  So which language would it be that they speak? Some of them speak Nauhutl, Yucatec Maya, Mixtec, Zapotec, TZeltal Maya, Otomi, Totonac, Mazatec, Chotl*mayan*, and the list goes on and on including Qu' che..a mayan language common in Central America as well...but in just Nauhutl there are almost 2 million speakers and a lot of them don't speak Spanish...so when you ask what do they speak either Mexican or Spanish you would be clearly leaving out a good section of the population of Mexico that doesn't speak Spanish or even a dialect of Spanish, because NO Mexicans do not speak Castillian Spanish they speak Mexican Spanish and or a dialect of native americans.  They also speak English, Chinese, Hebrew and the list goes on and on...do you really want to continue this or perhaps find out a little more about languages in Mexico before we go this route?



Clearly i did.  Been there dont that with dealing with all of the dialects. Do you speak mexican or spanish? Is it called mexican or spanish? it is a simple question.


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## JWBooth

Voted yes, but it begs the question, which version of English?

Cockney, Australian, Southron, Queens, yankee (ewwww), Texian, Nigerian, South African?


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## Sky Dancer

Having english be an official language is right wing lame.


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## Moonglow

syrenn said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gingrich is wrong...English should not be our official language..the USA is not England.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets make this easy for you. Do mexicans speak mexican or spanish?
Click to expand...


Mexican


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## syrenn

Moonglow said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gingrich is wrong...English should not be our official language..the USA is not England.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets make this easy for you. Do mexicans speak mexican or spanish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mexican
Click to expand...



Really? They are rather insulted if you say they are speaking mexican and not spanish.


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## Xchel

Actually they aren't insulted at all...and you ask what do I speak Mexican or Spanish? Again why would I speak a Mexican dialect or any of the sort if I am Cherokee Indian? I wasn't born in Mexico nor was anyone in my family except those folks born there pre Texas independence.


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## Moonglow

syrenn said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets make this easy for you. Do mexicans speak mexican or spanish?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mexican
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Really? They are rather insulted if you say they are speaking mexican and not spanish.
Click to expand...


The ones I speak to every week at work get angry when you say espanol and not mexicano, now I just used spanish, not mexican


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## Tank

Who ever is the majority will decide


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## syrenn

Xchel said:


> Actually they aren't insulted at all...and you ask what do I speak Mexican or Spanish? Again why would I speak a Mexican dialect or any of the sort if I am Cherokee Indian? I wasn't born in Mexico nor was anyone in my family except those folks born there pre Texas independence.




Actually... in my experience... they are _very_ touchy about "speaking mexican"  I have no idea what you are, excuse the assumption. 

i will rephrase. 

Do mexicans speak mexican or spanish.


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## Sky Dancer

Xchel said:


> 1. the US has always been based on the idea we are a melting pot
> 2. we don't speak English we speak a combination of languages.  Words like faux pas are not English.
> 3. what exactly is it going to accomplish?
> 4. We weren't founded by English in reality...the natives were here first and there are so many languages and our language is so mixed that it makes no sense really.  Why not make it Cherokee if you want an official language? after all we aren't English and in reality no one here speaks English.



I agree with you.  Making english an official American language is ridiculous.


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## Swagger

Ever since its transition from a colonial possession to a sovereign state, citizens of the United States have normally communicated (in an official capacity) in a wandering variation of Estuary English.


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## editec

As long as French is the national kiss,  Turkish is the offical bath, and Russian is the offical roulette, I guess I'm okay with that.


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## Unkotare

Xchel said:


> Words like faux pas are not English.





Yes they are.


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## Mr.Nick

What would be a better language?

Spanish - as in Cortes Spain Spanish???

French?

What the fuck is wrong with English?

What is wrong with the language being the "official" language for that matter?


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## Mr.Nick

10 bucks says the majority of  progressives believe the natives spoke Spanish.


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## California Girl

Xchel said:


> 1. the US has always been based on the idea we are a melting pot
> 2. we don't speak English we speak a combination of languages.  Words like faux pas are not English.
> 3. what exactly is it going to accomplish?
> 4. We weren't founded by English in reality...the natives were here first and there are so many languages and our language is so mixed that it makes no sense really.  Why not make it Cherokee if you want an official language? after all we aren't English and in reality no one here speaks English.


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## Mr.Nick

Xchel said:


> First of all I am not Mexican. I am Cherokee Indian and Hispanic...so let's make it easy for you...get a life this is not England and we don't speak English here.  Furthermore, making any language EXCLUSIVE to any part of life makes it a violation of freedom of speech in the constitution.



You aware the US PURCHASED the south west from Mexico for MONEY??

Are you aware that "Spanish" comes from Spain??

Stop with the renig bullshit.......

Go build a fucking casino dummy.....


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## oracle

BDBoop said:


> Gingrich got applause at the debate for saying English should be our official language. Agree or disagree?



Most def agreed.


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## oracle

Xchel said:


> Gingrich is wrong...English should not be our official language..the USA is not England.



That's a matter of opinion. After all, America WAS a penal colony of England.


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## oracle

Sherry said:


> He actually said that it should be the official language of the United States government...which I assume is directed at bilingual education. There is definitely an argument to be made that it compels people to assimilate more quickly, but not sure if it needs to be "official".



Maybe we should tell other countries to not have official languages either. As it stands, no other country is making their schools adapt their criteria to folks that think their native tongue is too cumbersome.


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## Mr.Nick

Does anyone want any fish and chips?


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## oracle

Xchel said:


> official language flies in the face of freedom of speech.  No it isn't what Gingrich meant...and Gingrich shouldn't be on any platform with his corrupt foolishness he needs to be hiding in a closet somewhere.



Hiding in a closet? Look at your picture...then get back to me. That's freedom of speech. Freedom of speech. Are you a professional idiot, or just a gifted amateur? Maybe if you had said expression (weak as that would be) you'd have an argument. You clearly don't even know what freedom of speech means, otherwise you wouldn't post such stupid comments.


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## oracle

AVG-JOE said:


> No.  Not English.
> 
> I've been to England and they talk funny.  If we're going to have an official language, it should be 'American'.



You ever been to Alabama?


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## Mr.Nick

oracle said:


> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.  Not English.
> 
> I've been to England and they talk funny.  If we're going to have an official language, it should be 'American'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You ever been to Alabama?
Click to expand...


How about Louisiana or Massachusetts..........


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## oracle

Xchel said:


> 1. the US has always been based on the idea we are a melting pot
> 2. we don't speak English we speak a combination of languages.  Words like faux pas are not English.
> 3. what exactly is it going to accomplish?
> 4. We weren't founded by English in reality...the natives were here first and there are so many languages and our language is so mixed that it makes no sense really.  Why not make it Cherokee if you want an official language? after all we aren't English and in reality no one here speaks English.



For one, it would help weed out naturalized citizens versus illegals. Also If part of the immigration process was to learn to speak english, then you wouldn't have as many language barrier problems, cause it's not just mexicans that game the system by saying me no understand. Third, we could convey the word hideous, in a way that helps you take down that picture.


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## oracle

Xchel said:


> First of all I am not Mexican. I am Cherokee Indian and Hispanic...so let's make it easy for you...get a life this is not England and we don't speak English here.  Furthermore, making any language EXCLUSIVE to any part of life makes it a violation of freedom of speech in the constitution.



So, you're a DRUNK retard. congrats. Now we know where YOU'RE at. Only a person that is part of the problem, would spend so much energy poorly defending something so ridiculous. By the way, how MANY of your friends don't speak English? It seems to me that only three groups think like you. people who want votes, people who perpetrate the issue by being part of the issue and people who want cheap lawn care. Where do you fall in?


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## Ravi

No. It should be the unofficial language. It would be against the First Amendment to make laws about language.


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## oracle

Xchel said:


> A melting pot means no official language..especially when we have a bill of rights that includes everyone...
> 
> .In Meyer v. Nebraska, a landmark 1923 Supreme Court decision, the Court declared unconstitutional laws which restricted the use of non-English languages. In Meyer, the Supreme Court struck down a state statute that prohibited the teaching of any subject in a language other than English to students below ninth grade in public or private schools.
> 
> 1923 case, Bartels v. Iowa, an Iowa statute requiring that all teaching be conducted only in English was declared unconstitutional. In Yu Cong Eng v. Trinidad, a 1926 case, a state statute which prohibited the keeping of accounting books in any language other than English or Spanish was unconstitutional because it denied equal protection to Chinese immigrants.
> 
> Title VI of the Civil Rights Act, programs that receive federal funding are prohibited from discrimination
> How Can There Be Free Speech If It's Only In English?



No it doesn't dummy. stop googling and look around. I'll tell you what keep defending those slothful immigrants. When you go to work (assuming you can put down your peyote pipe and babies) if you even HAVE a job and google how many spanish only speakers are ceo's where you work, even if you catch phrase is "would you like fries with that". It may be a melting pot here and a land of opportunity, but it's only that way for those who'll work for it and yes, learning the language is part of that work. Think I'm kidding? Next time you call tech support, ask for a manager, then see if you hear anyone speaking spanish as a first language. For that matter, what position do you hold where YOU work?


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## Ravi

oracle said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> A melting pot means no official language..especially when we have a bill of rights that includes everyone...
> 
> .In Meyer v. Nebraska, a landmark 1923 Supreme Court decision, the Court declared unconstitutional laws which restricted the use of non-English languages. In Meyer, the Supreme Court struck down a state statute that prohibited the teaching of any subject in a language other than English to students below ninth grade in public or private schools.
> 
> 1923 case, Bartels v. Iowa, an Iowa statute requiring that all teaching be conducted only in English was declared unconstitutional. In Yu Cong Eng v. Trinidad, a 1926 case, a state statute which prohibited the keeping of accounting books in any language other than English or Spanish was unconstitutional because it denied equal protection to Chinese immigrants.
> 
> Title VI of the Civil Rights Act, programs that receive federal funding are prohibited from discrimination
> How Can There Be Free Speech If It's Only In English?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it doesn't dummy. stop googling and look around. I'll tell you what keep defending those slothful immigrants. When you go to work (assuming you can put down your peyote pipe and babies) if you even HAVE a job and google how many spanish only speakers are ceo's where you work, even if you catch phrase is "would you like fries with that". It may be a melting pot here and a land of opportunity, but it's only that way for those who'll work for it and yes, learning the language is part of that work. Think I'm kidding? Next time you call tech support, ask for a manager, then see if you hear anyone speaking spanish as a first language. For that matter, what position do you hold where YOU work?
Click to expand...

I know quite a few successful people whose first language is Spanish. Where do you live, in a cave in Montana?


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## oracle

Xchel said:


> Mexicans speak a dialect of Spanish but not all of them..some of them speak other languages.  In fact, there are 68 languages of Mexico, but you clearly did not know that.  So which language would it be that they speak? Some of them speak Nauhutl, Yucatec Maya, Mixtec, Zapotec, TZeltal Maya, Otomi, Totonac, Mazatec, Chotl*mayan*, and the list goes on and on including Qu' che..a mayan language common in Central America as well...but in just Nauhutl there are almost 2 million speakers and a lot of them don't speak Spanish...so when you ask what do they speak either Mexican or Spanish you would be clearly leaving out a good section of the population of Mexico that doesn't speak Spanish or even a dialect of Spanish, because NO Mexicans do not speak Castillian Spanish they speak Mexican Spanish and or a dialect of native americans.  They also speak English, Chinese, Hebrew and the list goes on and on...do you really want to continue this or perhaps find out a little more about languages in Mexico before we go this route?



Yeah, those are indian dialects, big deal. Go there where english isn't an issue. Here's another language they speak fluently...poverty. Why? because like you, apparently, they want to be accommodated. To ask anything more "FLIES IN THE FACE OF FREE SPEECH".  Get a life La feo, and quit screaming at the rain.


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## oracle

Xchel said:


> Actually they aren't insulted at all...and you ask what do I speak Mexican or Spanish? Again why would I speak a Mexican dialect or any of the sort if I am Cherokee Indian? I wasn't born in Mexico nor was anyone in my family except those folks born there pre Texas independence.



Do you speak Cherokee? Don't lie, because I'm slightly familiar with it and I'll know if you googled it. That's the beauty of dialect. You can't fake it.


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## oracle

Unkotare said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Words like faux pas are not English.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they are.
Click to expand...


UH, no it isn't.


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## oracle

Xchel said:


> 1. the US has always been based on the idea we are a melting pot
> 2. we don't speak English we speak a combination of languages.  Words like faux pas are not English.
> 3. what exactly is it going to accomplish?
> 4. We weren't founded by English in reality...the natives were here first and there are so many languages and our language is so mixed that it makes no sense really.  Why not make it Cherokee if you want an official language? after all we aren't English and in reality no one here speaks English.



Hey dummy, Cherokee wasn't the official language either. In fact, Cherokee, while one of the most common groups to pull out of your ass, is only a small part of the indian tribes that existed then. So since you are "Cherokee" and not mexican as you claim, then tell me why your dialect should be above all others?


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## oracle

Ravi said:


> No. It should be the unofficial language. It would be against the First Amendment to make laws about language.



More voices from the peanut gallery.


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## oracle

Ravi said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> A melting pot means no official language..especially when we have a bill of rights that includes everyone...
> 
> .In Meyer v. Nebraska, a landmark 1923 Supreme Court decision, the Court declared unconstitutional laws which restricted the use of non-English languages. In Meyer, the Supreme Court struck down a state statute that prohibited the teaching of any subject in a language other than English to students below ninth grade in public or private schools.
> 
> 1923 case, Bartels v. Iowa, an Iowa statute requiring that all teaching be conducted only in English was declared unconstitutional. In Yu Cong Eng v. Trinidad, a 1926 case, a state statute which prohibited the keeping of accounting books in any language other than English or Spanish was unconstitutional because it denied equal protection to Chinese immigrants.
> 
> Title VI of the Civil Rights Act, programs that receive federal funding are prohibited from discrimination
> How Can There Be Free Speech If It's Only In English?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it doesn't dummy. stop googling and look around. I'll tell you what keep defending those slothful immigrants. When you go to work (assuming you can put down your peyote pipe and babies) if you even HAVE a job and google how many spanish only speakers are ceo's where you work, even if you catch phrase is "would you like fries with that". It may be a melting pot here and a land of opportunity, but it's only that way for those who'll work for it and yes, learning the language is part of that work. Think I'm kidding? Next time you call tech support, ask for a manager, then see if you hear anyone speaking spanish as a first language. For that matter, what position do you hold where YOU work?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know quite a few successful people whose first language is Spanish. Where do you live, in a cave in Montana?
Click to expand...


Successful and company leaders are two different things dolt. You could be a successful dog walker too.


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## Unkotare

oracle said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. the US has always been based on the idea we are a melting pot
> 2. we don't speak English we speak a combination of languages.  Words like faux pas are not English.
> 3. what exactly is it going to accomplish?
> 4. We weren't founded by English in reality...the natives were here first and there are so many languages and our language is so mixed that it makes no sense really.  Why not make it Cherokee if you want an official language? after all we aren't English and in reality no one here speaks English.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For one, it would help weed out naturalized citizens versus illegals. Also If part of the immigration process was to learn to speak english, then you wouldn't have as many language barrier problems, cause it's not just mexicans that game the system by saying me no understand. Third, we could convey the word hideous, in a way that helps you take down that picture.
Click to expand...



Wow, that really makes no sense.


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## Unkotare

oracle said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Words like faux pas are not English.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> UH, no it isn't.
Click to expand...




Yes. Really. It is. Are you in any way familiar with the history of the English language? Here's a hint: 1066.


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## Ravi

oracle said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it doesn't dummy. stop googling and look around. I'll tell you what keep defending those slothful immigrants. When you go to work (assuming you can put down your peyote pipe and babies) if you even HAVE a job and google how many spanish only speakers are ceo's where you work, even if you catch phrase is "would you like fries with that". It may be a melting pot here and a land of opportunity, but it's only that way for those who'll work for it and yes, learning the language is part of that work. Think I'm kidding? Next time you call tech support, ask for a manager, then see if you hear anyone speaking spanish as a first language. For that matter, what position do you hold where YOU work?
> 
> 
> 
> I know quite a few successful people whose first language is Spanish. Where do you live, in a cave in Montana?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Successful and company leaders are two different things dolt. You could be a successful dog walker too.
Click to expand...


Hispanic Trends


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## AVG-JOE

BDBoop said:


> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.  Not English.
> 
> I've been to England and they talk funny.  If we're going to have an official language, it should be 'American'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But there are no American classes in high school.
> 
> We obviously don't speak the Queen's English, but it is English nonetheless.
Click to expand...




Obviously.

Sarcasm detectors should be in the 'on' position before proceeding!


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## oracle

Unkotare said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. the US has always been based on the idea we are a melting pot
> 2. we don't speak English we speak a combination of languages.  Words like faux pas are not English.
> 3. what exactly is it going to accomplish?
> 4. We weren't founded by English in reality...the natives were here first and there are so many languages and our language is so mixed that it makes no sense really.  Why not make it Cherokee if you want an official language? after all we aren't English and in reality no one here speaks English.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For one, it would help weed out naturalized citizens versus illegals. Also If part of the immigration process was to learn to speak english, then you wouldn't have as many language barrier problems, cause it's not just mexicans that game the system by saying me no understand. Third, we could convey the word hideous, in a way that helps you take down that picture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, that really makes no sense.
Click to expand...


How's that?


----------



## AVG-JOE

Xchel said:


> First of all I am not Mexican. I am Cherokee Indian and Hispanic...so let's make it easy for you...get a life this is not England and we don't speak English here.  Furthermore, making any language EXCLUSIVE to any part of life makes it a violation of freedom of speech in the constitution.



On the other hand, printing government publications and forms in a limited number of languages makes good national and economic sense.  Doesn't mean you can't speak Mongolian in the Starbucks, ass-u-me-ing the dude you're yakking with understands the words coming out of your mouth, it just means you may need a translator with you when you apply for food stamps.


----------



## AVG-JOE

Tank said:


> Who ever is the majority will decide



Careful what you wish for - we might end up all speaking 'Jive'?  

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa1rjCZxtxo]jive talk (AIRPLANE) - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## oracle

Unkotare said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. the US has always been based on the idea we are a melting pot
> 2. we don't speak English we speak a combination of languages.  Words like faux pas are not English.
> 3. what exactly is it going to accomplish?
> 4. We weren't founded by English in reality...the natives were here first and there are so many languages and our language is so mixed that it makes no sense really.  Why not make it Cherokee if you want an official language? after all we aren't English and in reality no one here speaks English.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For one, it would help weed out naturalized citizens versus illegals. Also If part of the immigration process was to learn to speak english, then you wouldn't have as many language barrier problems, cause it's not just mexicans that game the system by saying me no understand. Third, we could convey the word hideous, in a way that helps you take down that picture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, that really makes no sense.
Click to expand...


I'm guessing that, either you ARE hispanic, or you have never had an encounter with one that barely speaks English. If part of the immigration process was learning English, adjusting would be easier, no? If all immigrants were required to learn English, you'd know who wasn't here legally for the most part, would you not? As far as the person I was responding to initially...hideous speaks for itself...using my free speech and all. If it still makes no sense, then you are clearly a poster child for why we should act now! Of course you'll argue to be contrary. Folks that post like you, usually do.


----------



## AVG-JOE

oracle said:


> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.  Not English.
> 
> I've been to England and they talk funny.  If we're going to have an official language, it should be 'American'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You ever been to Alabama?
Click to expand...


I have.... back in '69.... there was a banjo on my knee, as I recall.... her name was 'Suzanna'.......

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJf-XJPu27Y]Summer of &#39;69 - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## AVG-JOE

Mr.Nick said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.  Not English.
> 
> I've been to England and they talk funny.  If we're going to have an official language, it should be 'American'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You ever been to Alabama?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How about Louisiana or Massachusetts..........
Click to expand...


Kind of my point there, eh?


----------



## oracle

AVG-JOE said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of all I am not Mexican. I am Cherokee Indian and Hispanic...so let's make it easy for you...get a life this is not England and we don't speak English here.  Furthermore, making any language EXCLUSIVE to any part of life makes it a violation of freedom of speech in the constitution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the other hand, printing government publications and forms in a limited number of languages makes good national and economic sense.  Doesn't mean you can't speak Mongolian in the Starbucks, ass-u-me-ing the dude you're yakking with understands the words coming our of your mouth, it just means you may need a translator with you when you apply for food stamps.
Click to expand...


Here's what else could make good sense. See how they like getting PAID in their native currency. They shouldn't see any reason to go all "English" with the print on their currency then either. Pay them what they got paid with back home AND pay them WHAT they got paid back home. Watch how fast they want to go "American" then. englais iz gud, englais iz gud.


----------



## AVG-JOE

Ravi said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> A melting pot means no official language..especially when we have a bill of rights that includes everyone...
> 
> .In Meyer v. Nebraska, a landmark 1923 Supreme Court decision, the Court declared unconstitutional laws which restricted the use of non-English languages. In Meyer, the Supreme Court struck down a state statute that prohibited the teaching of any subject in a language other than English to students below ninth grade in public or private schools.
> 
> 1923 case, Bartels v. Iowa, an Iowa statute requiring that all teaching be conducted only in English was declared unconstitutional. In Yu Cong Eng v. Trinidad, a 1926 case, a state statute which prohibited the keeping of accounting books in any language other than English or Spanish was unconstitutional because it denied equal protection to Chinese immigrants.
> 
> Title VI of the Civil Rights Act, programs that receive federal funding are prohibited from discrimination
> How Can There Be Free Speech If It's Only In English?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it doesn't dummy. stop googling and look around. I'll tell you what keep defending those slothful immigrants. When you go to work (assuming you can put down your peyote pipe and babies) if you even HAVE a job and google how many spanish only speakers are ceo's where you work, even if you catch phrase is "would you like fries with that". It may be a melting pot here and a land of opportunity, but it's only that way for those who'll work for it and yes, learning the language is part of that work. Think I'm kidding? Next time you call tech support, ask for a manager, then see if you hear anyone speaking spanish as a first language. For that matter, what position do you hold where YOU work?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know quite a few successful people whose first language is Spanish. Where do you live, in a cave in Montana?
Click to expand...


  Would living in a Montana cave explain his mean streak?


----------



## rightwinger

So I guess those English only advocates would not have a problem if Hispanics became 51% of the population and changed it to Spanish only


----------



## Moonglow

If it is so important to have English as the offical language, why did the Founding Fathers not authorize it many years ago?


----------



## AVG-JOE

oracle said:


> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of all I am not Mexican. I am Cherokee Indian and Hispanic...so let's make it easy for you...get a life this is not England and we don't speak English here.  Furthermore, making any language EXCLUSIVE to any part of life makes it a violation of freedom of speech in the constitution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the other hand, printing government publications and forms in a limited number of languages makes good national and economic sense.  Doesn't mean you can't speak Mongolian in the Starbucks, ass-u-me-ing the dude you're yakking with understands the words coming our of your mouth, it just means you may need a translator with you when you apply for food stamps.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here's what else could make good sense. See how they like getting PAID in their native currency. They shouldn't see any reason to go all "English" with the print on their currency then either. Pay them what they got paid with back home AND pay them WHAT they got paid back home. Watch how fast they want to go "American" then. englais iz gud, englais iz gud.
Click to expand...


  Well, so much for any thoughts of actually *shrinking* the bureaucracy!

You're going to need a LOT of government to implement that kind of regulation on employment.    This average Joe is WAY to liberal to advocate for that much government intrusion.


----------



## oracle

AVG-JOE said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it doesn't dummy. stop googling and look around. I'll tell you what keep defending those slothful immigrants. When you go to work (assuming you can put down your peyote pipe and babies) if you even HAVE a job and google how many spanish only speakers are ceo's where you work, even if you catch phrase is "would you like fries with that". It may be a melting pot here and a land of opportunity, but it's only that way for those who'll work for it and yes, learning the language is part of that work. Think I'm kidding? Next time you call tech support, ask for a manager, then see if you hear anyone speaking spanish as a first language. For that matter, what position do you hold where YOU work?
> 
> 
> 
> I know quite a few successful people whose first language is Spanish. Where do you live, in a cave in Montana?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Would living in a Montana cave explain his mean streak?
Click to expand...


First Joe, this idiot is lying. You ever notice how jackasses always know a whole BUNCH of people that are the opposite of your point? It's amazing really. And living in a cave? where do they live? How many ceo's do they rub elbows with? I mean, it's just dumbfounding, how someone with those kinds of people in their circle can find time to post at 7:00 in the morning, much less be interest in it. You think those super successful friends of hers are posting right now? I call bullshit.


----------



## AVG-JOE

oracle said:


> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know quite a few successful people whose first language is Spanish. Where do you live, in a cave in Montana?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would living in a Montana cave explain his mean streak?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First Joe, this idiot is lying. You ever notice how jackasses always know a whole BUNCH of people that are the opposite of your point? It's amazing really. And living in a cave? where do they live? How many ceo's do they rub elbows with? I mean, it's just dumbfounding, how someone with those kinds of people in their circle can find time to post at 7:00 in the morning, much less be interest in it. You think those super successful friends of hers are posting right now? I call bullshit.
Click to expand...



Still doesn't justify the personal crap.  Calling bullshit on what you perceive as bullshit is a right of yours that I will defend 'till I'm euthanized, but there's never a call for phrases like "dummy" and "put the peyote pipe and the babies down".  That's just mean.


----------



## oracle

rightwinger said:


> So I guess those English only advocates would not have a problem if Hispanics became 51% of the population and changed it to Spanish only



Here we go. Captain contrary to the rescue. Do you think any other country would let that happen?


----------



## oracle

Moonglow said:


> If it is so important to have English as the offical language, why did the Founding Fathers not authorize it many years ago?



It was probably a given, since there was no signer of the constitution named Sanchez.


----------



## rightwinger

oracle said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I guess those English only advocates would not have a problem if Hispanics became 51% of the population and changed it to Spanish only
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here we go. Captain contrary to the rescue. Do you think any other country would let that happen?
Click to expand...


Let what happen?

We are a country of individual rights and personal choice. If we are going to degrade ourselves and become a country where the majority enforces a language on the minority, we should be consistent and accept the consequences if the minority language reaches 51%


----------



## oracle

AVG-JOE said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would living in a Montana cave explain his mean streak?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First Joe, this idiot is lying. You ever notice how jackasses always know a whole BUNCH of people that are the opposite of your point? It's amazing really. And living in a cave? where do they live? How many ceo's do they rub elbows with? I mean, it's just dumbfounding, how someone with those kinds of people in their circle can find time to post at 7:00 in the morning, much less be interest in it. You think those super successful friends of hers are posting right now? I call bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Still doesn't justify the personal crap.  Calling bullshit on what you perceive as bullshit is a right of yours that I will defend 'till I'm euthanized, but there's never a call for phrases like "dummy" and "put the peyote pipe and the babies down".  That's just mean.
Click to expand...


I didn't know that I was here to change your pampers, or be your play date. By the way, it was intended to be mean. I'm not in the business of pacifying folks on this site. As it stands everyone at some point or another is at each others throat. I started out trying to be nice and was given the bums rush. I learned quickly where you folks hail from theoretically. Everyone believes in free speech, until you piss them off. Well now I cut to the chase. If I perceive stupid, I call stupid. This site is designed merely to inspire pissing contests anyway. Do you REALLY think you matter to the other folks that come here? I know I don't. Nor do they, to me. So I don't really think I need your opinion, or code of ethics on what's mean or not. Let miss fao chipowah defend herself.


----------



## rightwinger

oracle said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it is so important to have English as the offical language, why did the Founding Fathers not authorize it many years ago?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was probably a given, since there was no signer of the constitution named Sanchez.
Click to expand...


There were signers of the constitution of Dutch, French, German and Scandinavian descent. They all spoke English, but knew better than to try to enforce an English language

It had something to do with freedom


----------



## oracle

rightwinger said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I guess those English only advocates would not have a problem if Hispanics became 51% of the population and changed it to Spanish only
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here we go. Captain contrary to the rescue. Do you think any other country would let that happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let what happen?
> 
> We are a country of individual rights and personal choice. If we are going to degrade ourselves and become a country where the majority enforces a language on the minority, we should be consistent and accept the consequences if the minority language reaches 51%
Click to expand...


If everyone learned english at birth, or upon entering the country as a path to citizenship it would be a non factor then wouldn't it? when the country was just about all white which ethnicity was the dominant? are they the dominant now? how has learning and speaking english hurt them?


----------



## oracle

rightwinger said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it is so important to have English as the offical language, why did the Founding Fathers not authorize it many years ago?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was probably a given, since there was no signer of the constitution named Sanchez.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There were signers of the constitution of Dutch, French, German and Scandinavian descent. They all spoke English, but knew better than to try to enforce an English language
> 
> It had something to do with freedom
Click to expand...


Yeah? What did it have to do with freedom? where did they write that it had to do with freedom? I bet there were more africans than scandinavian, did africans want to speak english? You know, since we're on that whole "freedom" thing. what option for dialect were they given?


----------



## rightwinger

oracle said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here we go. Captain contrary to the rescue. Do you think any other country would let that happen?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let what happen?
> 
> We are a country of individual rights and personal choice. If we are going to degrade ourselves and become a country where the majority enforces a language on the minority, we should be consistent and accept the consequences if the minority language reaches 51%
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If everyone learned english at birth, or upon entering the country as a path to citizenship it would be a non factor then wouldn't it? when the country was just about all white which ethnicity was the dominant? are they the dominant now? how has learning and speaking english hurt them?
Click to expand...


Almost all second generation immigrants speak English. speaking English is also a requirement for citizenship. 

Immigrants always spoke other languages. We have this romantic concept that our ancestors immediately spoke English as soon as they got off the boat. Some picked up the language quickly while others maintained their mother tongue
In every major city we had Little Italys, Chinatowns, Germantowns, Swedesboros where immigrants flocked together and still spoke their native languages. 
Second and third generations always managed to pick up English as their primary language

What are you afraid of now?


----------



## Xchel

Unkotare said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Words like faux pas are not English.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they are.
Click to expand...


no the word faux pas is french, the word patio is Spanish, sauna is a Finnish word, paradise is Persian and so on and so on I could go on all day telling you words we use daily that are NOT english that we use every day.


----------



## Xchel

Mr.Nick said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of all I am not Mexican. I am Cherokee Indian and Hispanic...so let's make it easy for you...get a life this is not England and we don't speak English here.  Furthermore, making any language EXCLUSIVE to any part of life makes it a violation of freedom of speech in the constitution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You aware the US PURCHASED the south west from Mexico for MONEY??
> 
> Are you aware that "Spanish" comes from Spain??
> 
> Stop with the renig bullshit.......
> 
> Go build a fucking casino dummy.....
Click to expand...


at the point of a gun but that is not exactly what we are discussing either is it..do you mind staying on topic?


----------



## Xchel

oracle said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> He actually said that it should be the official language of the United States government...which I assume is directed at bilingual education. There is definitely an argument to be made that it compels people to assimilate more quickly, but not sure if it needs to be "official".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe we should tell other countries to not have official languages either. As it stands, no other country is making their schools adapt their criteria to folks that think their native tongue is too cumbersome.
Click to expand...


English is taught in *every public school* in Honduras where the common languages are Spanish and Mayan and Garifuna.


----------



## Xchel

how many spanish only speakers are ceo's where you work

The wealthiest man in the world is Carlos Slim, he speaks Spanish. SO think about it you dolt..and look where I live and then tell me how many speak Spanish dolt...all of them do every business owner where I live speaks Spanish.  My former next door neighbor is the president of the country I live in.


----------



## BDBoop

Xchel said:


> Mexicans speak a dialect of Spanish but not all of them..some of them speak other languages.  In fact, there are 68 languages of Mexico, but you clearly did not know that.  So which language would it be that they speak? Some of them speak Nauhutl, Yucatec Maya, Mixtec, Zapotec, TZeltal Maya, Otomi, Totonac, Mazatec, Chotl*mayan*, and the list goes on and on including Qu' che..a mayan language common in Central America as well...but in just Nauhutl there are almost 2 million speakers and a lot of them don't speak Spanish...so when you ask what do they speak either Mexican or Spanish you would be clearly leaving out a good section of the population of Mexico that doesn't speak Spanish or even a dialect of Spanish, because NO Mexicans do not speak Castillian Spanish they speak Mexican Spanish and or a dialect of native americans.  They also speak English, Chinese, Hebrew and the list goes on and on...do you really want to continue this or perhaps find out a little more about languages in Mexico before we go this route?



Google much?


----------



## BDBoop

JWBooth said:


> Voted yes, but it begs the question, which version of English?
> 
> Cockney, Australian, Southron, Queens, yankee (ewwww), Texian, Nigerian, South African?



Ours. The one most of our citizens understand, most of the time.


----------



## BDBoop

Xchel said:


> Actually they aren't insulted at all...and you ask what do I speak Mexican or Spanish? Again why would I speak a Mexican dialect or any of the sort if I am Cherokee Indian? I wasn't born in Mexico nor was anyone in my family except those folks born there pre Texas independence.



You have personalized what was not intended to be personal. Being in a country does not automatically mean the language is named after it. That would be the point.

We do speak English. We take classes in it. When people come here and learn the language, they learn to speak in, hear and comprehend, English.


----------



## Xchel

Oh and Oracle, you can try to get a rise out of me with insults all you want, the more you insult me the more I know you are losing the argument, because when a person results to insulting the other person they are discussing a political issue with it means they have already lost the argument...so make your case or find somewhere else to play because in debate I will stomp your tail and I have been doing this since I was 16 and I am 40 now and I can tell you this, I don't need google to help me.


----------



## BDBoop

editec said:


> As long as French is the national kiss,  Turkish is the offical bath, and Russian is the offical roulette, I guess I'm okay with that.



You bastard. Now I'm having euphoric recall.

/misses kissing more than anything.


----------



## BDBoop

Unkotare said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Words like faux pas are not English.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they are.
Click to expand...


No they aren't.



> The term comes originally from French, and literally means "misstep" or "false step".


----------



## BDBoop

Mr.Nick said:


> What would be a better language?
> 
> Spanish - as in Cortes Spain Spanish???
> 
> French?
> 
> What the fuck is wrong with English?
> 
> What is wrong with the language being the "official" language for that matter?



Beats me. I'm about 75% firmly on the 'yes, it should be' side.


----------



## BDBoop

Mr.Nick said:


> 10 bucks says the majority of  progressives believe the natives spoke Spanish.



$10 bucks says that was a pretty damn ignorant statement.

On the other hand, I took history going on 40 years ago, so I am of course wondering if the natives in what is now Texas weren't speaking Spanish.

I'm probably overdue for a refresh on American history.


----------



## Xchel

BDBoop said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually they aren't insulted at all...and you ask what do I speak Mexican or Spanish? Again why would I speak a Mexican dialect or any of the sort if I am Cherokee Indian? I wasn't born in Mexico nor was anyone in my family except those folks born there pre Texas independence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have personalized what was not intended to be personal. Being in a country does not automatically mean the language is named after it. That would be the point.
> 
> We do speak English. We take classes in it. When people come here and learn the language, they learn to speak in, hear and comprehend, English.
Click to expand...


No she did intend it and apologized for assuming I was Mexican which is fine, but she did make the assumption.  No it doesn't automatically mean it, but we do not speak English either we speak a conglomeration of languages that we call English.  Ask the English themselves and they will tell you that people in the US do not speak English, they speak American.  Why? Because our language is heavy in foreign languages that we have picked up from being a melting pot.  We don't use words like petro we use the word gasoline, we don't say cinema we say movie, we don't call a damn bathroom a loo either.  

Oracle, yes I speak some Cherokee.  My grandparents lived and were born on the reservation and no we aren't discussing in foreign languages to prove the point.  I also am 100% fluent in Spanish but the speakers on this board speak English so we will keep the conversation on the topic.  You want to IM me in Cherokee or Spanish go for it.


----------



## BDBoop

oracle said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gingrich is wrong...English should not be our official language..the USA is not England.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a matter of opinion. After all, America WAS a penal colony of England.
Click to expand...


I think you're thinking of Australia.


----------



## BDBoop

Mr.Nick said:


> Does anyone want any fish and chips?



Yes, and thankfully we have one of these nearby.

Welcome to Claddagh Irish Pubs


----------



## Xchel

BDBoop said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 10 bucks says the majority of  progressives believe the natives spoke Spanish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> $10 bucks says that was a pretty damn ignorant statement.
> 
> On the other hand, I took history going on 40 years ago, so I am of course wondering if the natives in what is now Texas weren't speaking Spanish.
> 
> I'm probably overdue for a refresh on American history.
Click to expand...


The true natives didn't speak Spanish, they spoke native languages even in Texas, Mexico and so forth..that said, the Spanish and French arrived in the US before English even thought about the US so we had native languages and then Spanish and French oh and Italian before Englishmen even were interested in the New world.  Italian would be one of those first languages arriving here along with Spanish after the natives..Christopher Columbus was Italian but he had Spanish on his crew and his ships were from Spain.  Spanish, Chinese and English are all important languages and I have to wonder what some of my fellow Americans have against learning other languages? In fact, successful countries require it.


----------



## BDBoop

oracle said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. the US has always been based on the idea we are a melting pot
> 2. we don't speak English we speak a combination of languages.  Words like faux pas are not English.
> 3. what exactly is it going to accomplish?
> 4. We weren't founded by English in reality...the natives were here first and there are so many languages and our language is so mixed that it makes no sense really.  Why not make it Cherokee if you want an official language? after all we aren't English and in reality no one here speaks English.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For one, it would help weed out naturalized citizens versus illegals. Also If part of the immigration process was to learn to speak english, then you wouldn't have as many language barrier problems, cause it's not just mexicans that game the system by saying me no understand. Third, we could convey the word hideous, in a way that helps you take down that picture.
Click to expand...


OMG. When I was a bill collector, I can't tell you how many times I had somebody answer the phone "He- erm, Bueno!" NOT amused when I transferred them to the Spanish reps. In fact, about 80% of the time, they hung up.


----------



## Jos

after 200 years North Americans Still dont Have there own language ? leave the English for the English


----------



## Wry Catcher

BDBoop said:


> Gingrich got applause at the debate for saying English should be our official language. Agree or disagree?



English is our official language; by law we have made accomodations for those who do not speak English but live and work in our country.  What I took away from the debate was the applause from the crowd.  Emotinal issues stirred them, not reasoned and thoughtful ideas (of which those on stage offered few).

Our public schools ought to require the study of Latin as a lead in to a required study of at least one foreign language beginning in grade four.  Matters that matter were not even mentioned let alone debated last night.  What of the state of education in America?  When will we begin to reparir/replace worn out infrastructure build in the 19th Century?  Why do we spend more on defense than all other nations?


----------



## Jos

BDBoop said:


> OMG. When I was a bill collector, I can't tell you how many times I had somebody answer the phone "He- erm, Bueno!" NOT amused when I transferred them to the Spanish reps. In fact, about 80% of the time, they hung up.



I hate it when people want to transfer me just because I have an foreign accent, and usually hang up


----------



## BDBoop

oracle said:


> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> First Joe, this idiot is lying. You ever notice how jackasses always know a whole BUNCH of people that are the opposite of your point? It's amazing really. And living in a cave? where do they live? How many ceo's do they rub elbows with? I mean, it's just dumbfounding, how someone with those kinds of people in their circle can find time to post at 7:00 in the morning, much less be interest in it. You think those super successful friends of hers are posting right now? I call bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still doesn't justify the personal crap.  Calling bullshit on what you perceive as bullshit is a right of yours that I will defend 'till I'm euthanized, but there's never a call for phrases like "dummy" and "put the peyote pipe and the babies down".  That's just mean.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't know that I was here to change your pampers, or be your play date. By the way, it was intended to be mean. I'm not in the business of pacifying folks on this site. As it stands everyone at some point or another is at each others throat. I started out trying to be nice and was given the bums rush. I learned quickly where you folks hail from theoretically. Everyone believes in free speech, until you piss them off. Well now I cut to the chase. If I perceive stupid, I call stupid. This site is designed merely to inspire pissing contests anyway. Do you REALLY think you matter to the other folks that come here? I know I don't. Nor do they, to me. So I don't really think I need your opinion, or code of ethics on what's mean or not. Let miss fao chipowah defend herself.
Click to expand...


And if somebody is so obviously nasty that it's apparent that they desperately need to get laid, but that's not an option, I take it it's okay to go ahead and point that out, too. Right?


----------



## BDBoop

rightwinger said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let what happen?
> 
> We are a country of individual rights and personal choice. If we are going to degrade ourselves and become a country where the majority enforces a language on the minority, we should be consistent and accept the consequences if the minority language reaches 51%
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If everyone learned english at birth, or upon entering the country as a path to citizenship it would be a non factor then wouldn't it? when the country was just about all white which ethnicity was the dominant? are they the dominant now? how has learning and speaking english hurt them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Almost all second generation immigrants speak English. speaking English is also a requirement for citizenship. *
> 
> Immigrants always spoke other languages. We have this romantic concept that our ancestors immediately spoke English as soon as they got off the boat. Some picked up the language quickly while others maintained their mother tongue
> In every major city we had Little Italys, Chinatowns, Germantowns, Swedesboros where immigrants flocked together and still spoke their native languages.
> Second and third generations always managed to pick up English as their primary language
> 
> What are you afraid of now?
Click to expand...


Good to know (the bolded bit). I had wondered.


----------



## Avatar9

Xchel said:


> 1. the US has always been based on the idea we are a melting pot


Yep. And melting pot means integration. Integration means English-only.





> 2. we don't speak English we speak a combination of languages.  Words like faux pas are not English.


Incorporating foreign words or phrases doesn't mean we don't speak English any more than putting sugar on your Kix means you're not eating Kix.





> 3. what exactly is it going to accomplish?


It's a necessary measure to preserve the nation. Without a common language, there is no common people.





> 4. We weren't founded by English in reality...the natives were here first



And they wrote COTUS and formed this nation? 



JWBooth said:


> Voted yes, but it begs the question, which version of English?


American Standard. 



Ravi said:


> No. It should be the unofficial language. It would  be against the First Amendment to make laws about language.






Moonglow said:


> If it is so important to have English as the  offical language, why did the Founding Fathers not authorize it many  years ago?


The same reason they didn't ban nukes. They weren't psychics.



rightwinger said:


> There were signers of the constitution of Dutch, French, German and Scandinavian descent. They all spoke English


So you recognize that a common language is necessary for this nation to even exist.

Hence to oppose English only and push for United States of babel is to  actively seek to destroy the country by undermining the unity of the  population and achieving a balkanization of America.




Xchel said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Words like faux pas are not English.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> no the word faux pas is french, the word patio is Spanish, sauna is a  Finnish word, paradise is Persian and so on and so on I could go on all  day telling you words we use daily that are NOT english that we use  every day.
Click to expand...

Wrong. Those are all Greek or Latin words that suffered vowel shifts and other mispronunciation. You see, we all speak the Ur tongue 




Wry Catcher said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gingrich got applause  at the debate for saying English should be our official language. Agree  or disagree?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> English is our official language
Click to expand...

Cite the law.


The USA has no official language.


> Our public schools ought to require the study of Latin as a lead in to a  required study of at least one foreign language beginning in grade  four.


Why should I be required speak someone else's language in my own country?


----------



## BDBoop

Jos said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> 
> OMG. When I was a bill collector, I can't tell you how many times I had somebody answer the phone "He- erm, Bueno!" NOT amused when I transferred them to the Spanish reps. In fact, about 80% of the time, they hung up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate it when people want to transfer me just because I have an foreign accent, and usually hang up
Click to expand...


I'm not talking accents. I work with accents all day. I am referring to somebody who claimed not to speak English, because I was a bill collector. Her "hello" became "bueno" mid-word. 

I talk to some amazing people from all over the country every day, and I've never had to transfer someone yet. If I can't get what they are saying, I ask them to spell it, and we make it through.


----------



## Xchel

BDBoop said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still doesn't justify the personal crap.  Calling bullshit on what you perceive as bullshit is a right of yours that I will defend 'till I'm euthanized, but there's never a call for phrases like "dummy" and "put the peyote pipe and the babies down".  That's just mean.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't know that I was here to change your pampers, or be your play date. By the way, it was intended to be mean. I'm not in the business of pacifying folks on this site. As it stands everyone at some point or another is at each others throat. I started out trying to be nice and was given the bums rush. I learned quickly where you folks hail from theoretically. Everyone believes in free speech, until you piss them off. Well now I cut to the chase. If I perceive stupid, I call stupid. This site is designed merely to inspire pissing contests anyway. Do you REALLY think you matter to the other folks that come here? I know I don't. Nor do they, to me. So I don't really think I need your opinion, or code of ethics on what's mean or not. Let miss fao chipowah defend herself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And if somebody is so obviously nasty that it's apparent that they desperately need to get laid, but that's not an option, I take it it's okay to go ahead and point that out, too. Right?
Click to expand...


Don't worry it is apparent that Oracle is jealous...at 40 I still have a 25 year old fiancee...and wear a size 5 in clothing and can get away with a bikini and there are no babies..my baby is 15 and the oldest is 21 so I raised my babies and am not insecure...I am betting he is though since he finds the need to attack someone else and wail about their 'looks' ..I have to ask this to oracle..jealous much?


----------



## Xchel

BDBoop said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> 
> OMG. When I was a bill collector, I can't tell you how many times I had somebody answer the phone "He- erm, Bueno!" NOT amused when I transferred them to the Spanish reps. In fact, about 80% of the time, they hung up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate it when people want to transfer me just because I have an foreign accent, and usually hang up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not talking accents. I work with accents all day. I am referring to somebody who claimed not to speak English, because I was a bill collector. Her "hello" became "bueno" mid-word.
> 
> I talk to some amazing people from all over the country every day, and I've never had to transfer someone yet. If I can't get what they are saying, I ask them to spell it, and we make it through.
Click to expand...


I have been a bill collector as well..tough job..that said some Hispanics already use the word hello even in their native country.  Here hello is the standard answer and it is a Spanish speaking country where non English speakers are abundant.


----------



## Ringel05

Wei.  Nihao!


----------



## FuelRod

Nothing wrong with this.
Near as I can tell the first 150 or so years of our country's history immigrants came to this country from non english speaking countries and learned the language.


----------



## Xchel

FuelRod said:


> Nothing wrong with this.
> Near as I can tell the first 150 or so years of our country's history immigrants came to this country from non english speaking countries and learned the language.



actually they didn't learn the language.  The first 150 years or so there were entire colonies of non english speakers that spoke things like German, Gailic, Polish, Italian, Spanish, etc...in Texas in the first 150 years of the US they spoke Spanish and also in the entire southwest for that matter.


----------



## CoolBreeze

BDBoop said:


> Gingrich got applause at the debate for saying English should be our official language. Agree or disagree?



I agree, what other nation on this earth goes as far as we do to communicate with people that don't speak the native language?  It has gotten so bad that we (the US Citizen) are suppose to be able to converse in the language of the foreigeners of this country, and if we can't it is our fault and not that of the person who does not speak our language.  Not to mention the cost of printing instructions in several languages by businesses and the federal government.  Do you remember how ebonics worked out.

Remember our motto,"*OUT OF ONE COMES MANY*  we can not live upto that motto if we can not communicate in one laniguage with each other.  The common language of this nation is English and if should take a law to state that than I am for that, we should not have to accommendate every near-do-well who comes into this nation or any other way.


----------



## Xchel

what other nation on this earth goes as far as we do to communicate with people that don't speak the native language?

All of them do..in Japan it is a requirement of their schools to learn at least 5 languages and one of the is usually English.  In China they learn several languages including English.  In most European countries English is also a requirement.  In fact, the US goes to much less effort than other countries do.  Even in Latin America in public school English is at least a minimal requirement.


----------



## Ringel05

FuelRod said:


> Nothing wrong with this.
> Near as I can tell the first 150 or so years of our country's history immigrants came to this country from non english speaking countries and learned the language.



I have been here for a couple of hundred years and still haven't lost my Transylvania accent.


----------



## AVG-JOE

oracle said:


> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> First Joe, this idiot is lying. You ever notice how jackasses always know a whole BUNCH of people that are the opposite of your point? It's amazing really. And living in a cave? where do they live? How many ceo's do they rub elbows with? I mean, it's just dumbfounding, how someone with those kinds of people in their circle can find time to post at 7:00 in the morning, much less be interest in it. You think those super successful friends of hers are posting right now? I call bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still doesn't justify the personal crap.  Calling bullshit on what you perceive as bullshit is a right of yours that I will defend 'till I'm euthanized, but there's never a call for phrases like "dummy" and "put the peyote pipe and the babies down".  That's just mean.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't know that I was here to change your pampers, or be your play date. By the way, it was intended to be mean. I'm not in the business of pacifying folks on this site. As it stands everyone at some point or another is at each others throat. I started out trying to be nice and was given the bums rush. I learned quickly where you folks hail from theoretically. Everyone believes in free speech, until you piss them off. Well now I cut to the chase. If I perceive stupid, I call stupid. This site is designed merely to inspire pissing contests anyway. Do you REALLY think you matter to the other folks that come here? I know I don't. Nor do they, to me. So I don't really think I need your opinion, or code of ethics on what's mean or not. Let miss fao chipowah defend herself.
Click to expand...


All I'm saying is that you'll catch more flies with honey than you will with vinegar, giving instant value to your opinion, making it that much more likely that you're not wasting your time here.

And yes, I do think my opinion matters.  I think yours matters too. 

As far as the rest goes, calling stupid is as stupid does is kind of what this board is all about and it's certainly what keeps MY dear readers coming back for more.  But a quick wit is all I have - I'm not lucky like Ravi to have both a quick wit and a smokin' bod.


----------



## BDBoop

Ringel05 said:


> FuelRod said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing wrong with this.
> Near as I can tell the first 150 or so years of our country's history immigrants came to this country from non english speaking countries and learned the language.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have been here for a couple of hundred years and still haven't lost my Transylvania accent.
Click to expand...


I have a scandahoovian accent. Think Fargo, but not quite so thick with it.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

BDBoop said:


> Gingrich got applause at the debate for saying English should be our official language. Agree or disagree?



I agree for several reasons

It allows and encourages new legal immigrants to assimilate
It does not allow for "language ghettos" to be created (that is that people end up stuck in certain communities, usually very low income, based on a language if they don't speak the main language of english)
It helps create a sense of unity amongst all citizens.  


I have more reasons...here check out this article it has a few good reasons in it Why the U.S. Needs an Official Language


----------



## BDBoop

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gingrich got applause at the debate for saying English should be our official language. Agree or disagree?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree for several reasons
> 
> It allows and encourages new legal immigrants to assimilate
> It does not allow for "language ghettos" to be created (that is that people end up stuck in certain communities, usually very low income, based on a language if they don't speak the main language of english)
> It helps create a sense of unity amongst all citizens.
> 
> 
> I have more reasons...here check out this article it has a few good reasons in it Why the U.S. Needs an Official Language
Click to expand...


Too much rep, yada-yada, 24 hours, blah-blah. But thanks!


----------



## AVG-JOE

BDBoop said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 10 bucks says the majority of  progressives believe the natives spoke Spanish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> $10 bucks says that was a pretty damn ignorant statement.
> 
> On the other hand, I took history going on 40 years ago, so I am of course wondering if the natives in what is now Texas weren't speaking Spanish.
> 
> I'm probably overdue for a refresh on American history.
Click to expand...


Step 1 in settling THIS little wager is to come to agreement on the definition of 'progressive'.

  I'm at a loss.    Baffled.


----------



## AVG-JOE

BDBoop said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. the US has always been based on the idea we are a melting pot
> 2. we don't speak English we speak a combination of languages.  Words like faux pas are not English.
> 3. what exactly is it going to accomplish?
> 4. We weren't founded by English in reality...the natives were here first and there are so many languages and our language is so mixed that it makes no sense really.  Why not make it Cherokee if you want an official language? after all we aren't English and in reality no one here speaks English.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For one, it would help weed out naturalized citizens versus illegals. Also If part of the immigration process was to learn to speak english, then you wouldn't have as many language barrier problems, cause it's not just mexicans that game the system by saying me no understand. Third, we could convey the word hideous, in a way that helps you take down that picture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OMG. When I was a bill collector, I can't tell you how many times I had somebody answer the phone "He- erm, Bueno!" NOT amused when I transferred them to the Spanish reps. In fact, about 80% of the time, they hung up.
Click to expand...


It wasn't the language, Betty Bill Collector.


----------



## AVG-JOE

Avatar9 said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our public schools ought to require the study of Latin as a lead in to a  required study of at least one foreign language beginning in grade  four.
> 
> 
> 
> Why should I be required speak someone else's language in my own country?
Click to expand...



You shouldn't.  But if through education all kids get exposed to things like foreign languages and piano and guitar, the world will have more parties.

  I'm all about the party!


----------



## Againsheila

English IS our official language.  People really should know their history.  It was decided back when we became a country and congress was deciding what language we should have.  Dutch came in a close second.  As far as I know, Spanish wasn't even on the list.


----------



## rightwinger

Requiring English as an official language is UN American


----------



## hortysir

Only read the first 40 replies before posting so apologies if it's already been pointed out.

What the Newt actually said was 'make English the official language of government'.
I take that to mean that you're applying to any government entity you need to know English.
Be it your driver's license, social security card, passport, or whatever.

If you come to this country legally and go through the citizenship process properly this should pose no problem for you.
If it does, tough shit, go back.


And stop with the England English bullshit. You're nit-picking and look stupid with your petty shit.


----------



## rightwinger

hortysir said:


> Only read the first 40 replies before posting so apologies if it's already been pointed out.
> 
> What the Newt actually said was 'make English the official language of government'.
> I take that to mean that you're applying to any government entity you need to know English.
> Be it your driver's license, social security card, passport, or whatever.
> 
> If you come to this country legally and go through the citizenship process properly this should pose no problem for you.
> If it does, tough shit, go back.
> 
> 
> And stop with the England English bullshit. You're nit-picking and look stupid with your petty shit.



Government represents the people. There is no law that says you have to speak English to pay your taxes. In communicating with it's citizens government has an obligation to be as open as possible.


----------



## Tank

While whites are the majority so will speaking English be the majority.

When Hispanics become the majority so will speaking Spanish be the majority.

It's that simple.


----------



## Againsheila

Tank said:


> While whites are the majority so will speaking English be the majority.
> 
> When Hispanics become the majority so will speaking Spanish be the majority.
> 
> It's that simple.



I told you, English IS our official language.  That was decided back when we became a country.  Changing it now is stupid.  Even refusing to admit that English is our official language is stupid.  Why can't anyone learn history?  I don't understand it's like even our government is saying that never happened, but what do you expect when they no longer teach the declaration of Independence in schools today as they don't want our people to declare their independence from this government that no longer represents the people that elected it.


----------



## rightwinger

Againsheila said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> While whites are the majority so will speaking English be the majority.
> 
> When Hispanics become the majority so will speaking Spanish be the majority.
> 
> It's that simple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I told you, English IS our official language.  That was decided back when we became a country.  Changing it now is stupid.  Even refusing to admit that English is our official language is stupid.  Why can't anyone learn history?  I don't understand it's like even our government is saying that never happened, but what do you expect when they no longer teach the declaration of Independence in schools today as they don't want our people to declare their independence from this government that no longer represents the people that elected it.
Click to expand...


I must have missed history class that day

Can you show me where English has ever been designated as our official language?


----------



## Againsheila

rightwinger said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> While whites are the majority so will speaking English be the majority.
> 
> When Hispanics become the majority so will speaking Spanish be the majority.
> 
> It's that simple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I told you, English IS our official language.  That was decided back when we became a country.  Changing it now is stupid.  Even refusing to admit that English is our official language is stupid.  Why can't anyone learn history?  I don't understand it's like even our government is saying that never happened, but what do you expect when they no longer teach the declaration of Independence in schools today as they don't want our people to declare their independence from this government that no longer represents the people that elected it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I must have missed history class that day
> 
> Can you show me where English has ever been designated as our official language?
Click to expand...


You didn't miss anything.  They don't teach real history in our public schools.  Bet you think Paul Revere made the midnight ride and the battle of bunker hill actually took place on Bunker hill.

And do you know the real reason for the Boston Tea Party?


----------



## rightwinger

Againsheila said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> I told you, English IS our official language.  That was decided back when we became a country.  Changing it now is stupid.  Even refusing to admit that English is our official language is stupid.  Why can't anyone learn history?  I don't understand it's like even our government is saying that never happened, but what do you expect when they no longer teach the declaration of Independence in schools today as they don't want our people to declare their independence from this government that no longer represents the people that elected it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I must have missed history class that day
> 
> Can you show me where English has ever been designated as our official language?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You didn't miss anything.  They don't teach real history in our public schools.  Bet you think Paul Revere made the midnight ride and the battle of bunker hill actually took place on Bunker hill.
> 
> And do you know the real reason for the Boston Tea Party?
Click to expand...


I know that Revere made that ride to be ringing those bells and warning the British they better not be taking our guns 

I know the Battle of Bunker Hill was actually fought on Breeds Hill, I also know the Boston Tea Party had something to do with mandatory health care


----------



## Tank

Do any of you really think when Hispanics are the majority they are going to speak your language, celebrate your holidays, study your history?

Why would or should they?


----------



## oracle

Xchel said:


> how many spanish only speakers are ceo's where you work
> 
> The wealthiest man in the world is Carlos Slim, he speaks Spanish. SO think about it you dolt..and look where I live and then tell me how many speak Spanish dolt...all of them do every business owner where I live speaks Spanish.  My former next door neighbor is the president of the country I live in.



Are you as stupid as you look? we're not in honduras now are we? If your concern was for honduras, then why worry about the topic of this thread? You also prove my point, that wealthy hispanics stay where they came from. Only the bums flood our shores.


----------



## Ravi

hortysir said:


> Only read the first 40 replies before posting so apologies if it's already been pointed out.
> 
> What the Newt actually said was 'make English the official language of government'.
> I take that to mean that you're applying to any government entity you need to know English.
> Be it your driver's license, social security card, passport, or whatever.
> 
> If you come to this country legally and go through the citizenship process properly this should pose no problem for you.
> If it does, tough shit, go back.
> 
> 
> And stop with the England English bullshit. You're nit-picking and look stupid with your petty shit.



So if you pay your taxes and call 911 you get hung up on because you don't speak English?


----------



## Ravi

Againsheila said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> While whites are the majority so will speaking English be the majority.
> 
> When Hispanics become the majority so will speaking Spanish be the majority.
> 
> It's that simple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I told you, English IS our official language.  That was decided back when we became a country.  Changing it now is stupid.  Even refusing to admit that English is our official language is stupid.  Why can't anyone learn history?  I don't understand it's like even our government is saying that never happened, but what do you expect when they no longer teach the declaration of Independence in schools today as they don't want our people to declare their independence from this government that no longer represents the people that elected it.
Click to expand...

Can you link to this decision? There is nothing in the constitution naming an official language. Who decided?


----------



## oracle

Xchel said:


> Oh and Oracle, you can try to get a rise out of me with insults all you want, the more you insult me the more I know you are losing the argument, because when a person results to insulting the other person they are discussing a political issue with it means they have already lost the argument...so make your case or find somewhere else to play because in debate I will stomp your tail and I have been doing this since I was 16 and I am 40 now and I can tell you this, I don't need google to help me.



Tell yourself that if it helps fao. I'm not in honduras pretending to be Cherokee, while at the same time missing the point of the thread, because I'm too busy trying to get google to make me look smart. Since you don't live here, what happens here is really none of your business anyway, now is it?  wannabe cherokee.


----------



## Againsheila

Ravi said:


> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only read the first 40 replies before posting so apologies if it's already been pointed out.
> 
> What the Newt actually said was 'make English the official language of government'.
> I take that to mean that you're applying to any government entity you need to know English.
> Be it your driver's license, social security card, passport, or whatever.
> 
> If you come to this country legally and go through the citizenship process properly this should pose no problem for you.
> If it does, tough shit, go back.
> 
> 
> And stop with the England English bullshit. You're nit-picking and look stupid with your petty shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if you pay your taxes and call 911 you get hung up on because you don't speak English?
Click to expand...


So if you visit another country and call for help, you expect them to speak English for you?


----------



## lvcabbie

It frosts my _juevos_ to go into the voting booth and find an option to go through my ballot in English or Spanish!!!!!


----------



## Ravi

Againsheila said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only read the first 40 replies before posting so apologies if it's already been pointed out.
> 
> What the Newt actually said was 'make English the official language of government'.
> I take that to mean that you're applying to any government entity you need to know English.
> Be it your driver's license, social security card, passport, or whatever.
> 
> If you come to this country legally and go through the citizenship process properly this should pose no problem for you.
> If it does, tough shit, go back.
> 
> 
> And stop with the England English bullshit. You're nit-picking and look stupid with your petty shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if you pay your taxes and call 911 you get hung up on because you don't speak English?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So if you visit another country and call for help, you expect them to speak English for you?
Click to expand...

I don't really care what other countries do. None of them are governed by our constitution.


----------



## oracle

BDBoop said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gingrich is wrong...English should not be our official language..the USA is not England.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a matter of opinion. After all, America WAS a penal colony of England.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think you're thinking of Australia.
Click to expand...


No, get it right. we are 1 of 2.


----------



## Ravi

lvcabbie said:


> It frosts my _juevos_ to go into the voting booth and find an option to go through my ballot in English or Spanish!!!!!


Jan tris pou ou.


----------



## oracle

BDBoop said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still doesn't justify the personal crap.  Calling bullshit on what you perceive as bullshit is a right of yours that I will defend 'till I'm euthanized, but there's never a call for phrases like "dummy" and "put the peyote pipe and the babies down".  That's just mean.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't know that I was here to change your pampers, or be your play date. By the way, it was intended to be mean. I'm not in the business of pacifying folks on this site. As it stands everyone at some point or another is at each others throat. I started out trying to be nice and was given the bums rush. I learned quickly where you folks hail from theoretically. Everyone believes in free speech, until you piss them off. Well now I cut to the chase. If I perceive stupid, I call stupid. This site is designed merely to inspire pissing contests anyway. Do you REALLY think you matter to the other folks that come here? I know I don't. Nor do they, to me. So I don't really think I need your opinion, or code of ethics on what's mean or not. Let miss fao chipowah defend herself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And if somebody is so obviously nasty that it's apparent that they desperately need to get laid, but that's not an option, I take it it's okay to go ahead and point that out, too. Right?
Click to expand...


Don't really care. But if it makes you feel better, then do it. That's how I roll.


----------



## rightwinger

Againsheila said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only read the first 40 replies before posting so apologies if it's already been pointed out.
> 
> What the Newt actually said was 'make English the official language of government'.
> I take that to mean that you're applying to any government entity you need to know English.
> Be it your driver's license, social security card, passport, or whatever.
> 
> If you come to this country legally and go through the citizenship process properly this should pose no problem for you.
> If it does, tough shit, go back.
> 
> 
> And stop with the England English bullshit. You're nit-picking and look stupid with your petty shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if you pay your taxes and call 911 you get hung up on because you don't speak English?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So if you visit another country and call for help, you expect them to speak English for you?
Click to expand...


Actually, in most other countries, 911 operators are able to speak English


----------



## Againsheila

Ravi said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if you pay your taxes and call 911 you get hung up on because you don't speak English?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if you visit another country and call for help, you expect them to speak English for you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't really care what other countries do. None of them are governed by our constitution.
Click to expand...


How many languages do you think the people at 911 should have to speak?


----------



## Ravi

Againsheila said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if you visit another country and call for help, you expect them to speak English for you?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really care what other countries do. None of them are governed by our constitution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many languages do you think the people at 911 should have to speak?
Click to expand...

Please answer my previous question first.

Where are you getting this information that it was decided long ago that English is our official language?


----------



## oracle

Xchel said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't know that I was here to change your pampers, or be your play date. By the way, it was intended to be mean. I'm not in the business of pacifying folks on this site. As it stands everyone at some point or another is at each others throat. I started out trying to be nice and was given the bums rush. I learned quickly where you folks hail from theoretically. Everyone believes in free speech, until you piss them off. Well now I cut to the chase. If I perceive stupid, I call stupid. This site is designed merely to inspire pissing contests anyway. Do you REALLY think you matter to the other folks that come here? I know I don't. Nor do they, to me. So I don't really think I need your opinion, or code of ethics on what's mean or not. Let miss fao chipowah defend herself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And if somebody is so obviously nasty that it's apparent that they desperately need to get laid, but that's not an option, I take it it's okay to go ahead and point that out, too. Right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't worry it is apparent that Oracle is jealous...at 40 I still have a 25 year old fiancee...and wear a size 5 in clothing and can get away with a bikini and there are no babies..my baby is 15 and the oldest is 21 so I raised my babies and am not insecure...I am betting he is though since he finds the need to attack someone else and wail about their 'looks' ..I have to ask this to oracle..jealous much?
Click to expand...


Wow that was a great retort...not. 21 huh? started crankin em out at 18, couldn't find a fiancee till 40. Yeah I'd say I'm jealous. I wish I could be miss dry heave 2011 and still convince some retard to get engaged to me AFTER my warranty expired. Size five...can Marc Anthony feed you? You look Cambodian, not sexy. Sorry Fao.


----------



## Againsheila

Ravi said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really care what other countries do. None of them are governed by our constitution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many languages do you think the people at 911 should have to speak?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please answer my previous question first.
> 
> Where are you getting this information that it was decided long ago that English is our official language?
Click to expand...


History, read a book.

The first constitution congress had to decide what language we would use.  They chose English.

So how many languages do you think the people working at 911 should have to speak?


----------



## oracle

Xchel said:


> FuelRod said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing wrong with this.
> Near as I can tell the first 150 or so years of our country's history immigrants came to this country from non english speaking countries and learned the language.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> actually they didn't learn the language.  The first 150 years or so there were entire colonies of non english speakers that spoke things like German, Gailic, Polish, Italian, Spanish, etc...in Texas in the first 150 years of the US they spoke Spanish and also in the entire southwest for that matter.
Click to expand...


stop with your google quotes. You're not that bright. Your Interpretation of what free speech means proves that.


----------



## rightwinger

Againsheila said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if you visit another country and call for help, you expect them to speak English for you?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really care what other countries do. None of them are governed by our constitution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many languages do you think the people at 911 should have to speak?
Click to expand...


A 911 operator does not have to speak every language. But they should have access to people who do.

The person making that call may be calling to save YOUR life againshiela. Would you like 911 to hang up on them?


----------



## Unkotare

oracle said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> For one, it would help weed out naturalized citizens versus illegals. Also If part of the immigration process was to learn to speak english, then you wouldn't have as many language barrier problems, cause it's not just mexicans that game the system by saying me no understand. Third, we could convey the word hideous, in a way that helps you take down that picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, that really makes no sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How's that?
Click to expand...



Demonstrating an ability to speak English* is *part of the (legal) immigration process, but speaking it during your daily life is of course not required and would not be even if English were made our official language. And speaking English is in no way required of natural-born citizens.


----------



## Againsheila

rightwinger said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really care what other countries do. None of them are governed by our constitution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many languages do you think the people at 911 should have to speak?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A 911 operator does not have to speak every language. But they should have access to people who do.
> 
> The person making that call may be calling to save YOUR life againshiela. Would you like 911 to hang up on them?
Click to expand...


How do you even expect them to know what language is being spoken?  Why should those who work at 911 be language experts?  Do you have any idea what the job entails?  How much it pays?  They can't afford to hire language experts.  If you can't speak English, you sure as heck shouldn't expect 911 to understand you.

When we were in Japan, if we needed to call for help, we called one of our English speaking friends.  We sure as hell didn't expect everyone there to speak English, how stupid is that?  

If I'm in trouble and the only person who can call 911 doesn't speak English, I expect I'll die.  Maybe it's time to stop illegal immigration completely and curtail legal immigration reducing the chances of someone who doesn't speak our languages having to use our resources.


----------



## Unkotare

oracle said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> For one, it would help weed out naturalized citizens versus illegals. Also If part of the immigration process was to learn to speak english, then you wouldn't have as many language barrier problems, cause it's not just mexicans that game the system by saying me no understand. Third, we could convey the word hideous, in a way that helps you take down that picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, that really makes no sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm guessing that, either you ARE hispanic, or you have never had an encounter with one that barely speaks English. If part of the immigration process was learning English, adjusting would be easier, no? If all immigrants were required to learn English, you'd know who wasn't here legally for the most part, would you not? As far as the person I was responding to initially...hideous speaks for itself...using my free speech and all. If it still makes no sense, then you are clearly a poster child for why we should act now! Of course you'll argue to be contrary. Folks that post like you, usually do.
Click to expand...




You are really, really bad at guessing, and - again - demonstrating an ability to speak English is part of the (legal) immigration process.


----------



## oracle

AVG-JOE said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still doesn't justify the personal crap.  Calling bullshit on what you perceive as bullshit is a right of yours that I will defend 'till I'm euthanized, but there's never a call for phrases like "dummy" and "put the peyote pipe and the babies down".  That's just mean.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't know that I was here to change your pampers, or be your play date. By the way, it was intended to be mean. I'm not in the business of pacifying folks on this site. As it stands everyone at some point or another is at each others throat. I started out trying to be nice and was given the bums rush. I learned quickly where you folks hail from theoretically. Everyone believes in free speech, until you piss them off. Well now I cut to the chase. If I perceive stupid, I call stupid. This site is designed merely to inspire pissing contests anyway. Do you REALLY think you matter to the other folks that come here? I know I don't. Nor do they, to me. So I don't really think I need your opinion, or code of ethics on what's mean or not. Let miss fao chipowah defend herself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All I'm saying is that you'll catch more flies with honey than you will with vinegar, giving instant value to your opinion, making it that much more likely that you're not wasting your time here.
> 
> And yes, I do think my opinion matters.  I think yours matters too.
> 
> As far as the rest goes, calling stupid is as stupid does is kind of what this board is all about and it's certainly what keeps MY dear readers coming back for more.  But a quick wit is all I have - I'm not lucky like Ravi to have both a quick wit and a smokin' bod.
Click to expand...


Stop it hippie. When you leave here, you don't plan your day around what I say. Even if you agree with something I say, it only has about an 20/80 chance of becoming one of your talking points. By the way, who wants to catch flies for any reason than crushing them anyway?


----------



## Ravi

Againsheila said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many languages do you think the people at 911 should have to speak?
> 
> 
> 
> Please answer my previous question first.
> 
> Where are you getting this information that it was decided long ago that English is our official language?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> History, read a book.
> 
> The first constitution congress had to decide what language we would use.  They chose English.
> 
> So how many languages do you think the people working at 911 should have to speak?
Click to expand...

They didn't have to decide nor did they decide. Every one of them spoke English.

A system that serves taxpayers should serve tax payers. So if you have a large group of non-english speakers you should hire people that can communicate with.


----------



## Againsheila

Unkotare said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, that really makes no sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing that, either you ARE hispanic, or you have never had an encounter with one that barely speaks English. If part of the immigration process was learning English, adjusting would be easier, no? If all immigrants were required to learn English, you'd know who wasn't here legally for the most part, would you not? As far as the person I was responding to initially...hideous speaks for itself...using my free speech and all. If it still makes no sense, then you are clearly a poster child for why we should act now! Of course you'll argue to be contrary. Folks that post like you, usually do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are really, really bad at guessing, and - again - demonstrating an ability to speak English is part of the (legal) immigration process.
Click to expand...


When I lived in Mexico years ago, I sat though a lecture, in Spanish, about how terrible it was that so many Americans were going down there without learning the language.  I reserve the right to give that same lecture IN ENGLISH to the Spanish speaking morons who come here and expect us to speak their language.


----------



## NGSamson

BDBoop said:


> Gingrich got applause at the debate for saying English should be our official language. Agree or disagree?



I say swahili should be our national language .


----------



## Unkotare

Xchel said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Words like faux pas are not English.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> no the word faux pas is french, the word patio is Spanish, sauna is a Finnish word, paradise is Persian and so on and so on I could go on all day telling you words we use daily that are NOT english that we use every day.
Click to expand...


You could go on and on not understanding what you are really saying.

Those words are all part of the English language. English happens to have quite a lot of loan words, but they most certainly are fully part of the language.


----------



## Unkotare

BDBoop said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Words like faux pas are not English.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No they aren't.]
Click to expand...



Yes, they really, really are.


----------



## rightwinger

Againsheila said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many languages do you think the people at 911 should have to speak?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A 911 operator does not have to speak every language. But they should have access to people who do.
> 
> The person making that call may be calling to save YOUR life againshiela. Would you like 911 to hang up on them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How do you even expect them to know what language is being spoken?  Why should those who work at 911 be language experts?  Do you have any idea what the job entails?  How much it pays?  They can't afford to hire language experts.  If you can't speak English, you sure as heck shouldn't expect 911 to understand you.
> 
> When we were in Japan, if we needed to call for help, we called one of our English speaking friends.  We sure as hell didn't expect everyone there to speak English, how stupid is that?
> 
> If I'm in trouble and the only person who can call 911 doesn't speak English, I expect I'll die.  Maybe it's time to stop illegal immigration completely and curtail legal immigration reducing the chances of someone who doesn't speak our languages having to use our resources.
Click to expand...


We expect our 911 operators to do everything possible to save a life. That can include identifying the language the caller is speaking and having access to someone who speaks that language

It is not a gotcha situation. That 911 caller may be a visitor from another country and the victim may be an English speaking American citizen


----------



## Unkotare

Xchel said:


> Ask the English themselves and they will tell you that people in the US do not speak English, they speak American.





Not if they are educated they don't.


----------



## Unkotare

Wry Catcher said:


> Our public schools ought to require the study of Latin





Why should the study of a dead language be a requirement?


----------



## Unkotare

Ringel05 said:


> Wei.  Nihao!



And you felt compelled to say 'hello' why exactly?


----------



## BDBoop

rightwinger said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really care what other countries do. None of them are governed by our constitution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many languages do you think the people at 911 should have to speak?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A 911 operator does not have to speak every language. But they should have access to people who do.
> 
> The person making that call may be calling to save YOUR life againshiela. Would you like 911 to hang up on them?
Click to expand...


Your rep power is 666. You must stop now. 

NO REP FOR YOU!!


----------



## Unkotare

Xchel said:


> ..in Japan it is a requirement of their schools to learn at least 5 languages and one of the is usually English. .




Are you nuts? It is not a requirement in Japan to learn 5 languages. English however, is not "usually," but always a required course.


Where the hell do you get this stuff?


----------



## Unkotare

Ringel05 said:


> FuelRod said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing wrong with this.
> Near as I can tell the first 150 or so years of our country's history immigrants came to this country from non english speaking countries and learned the language.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have been here for a couple of hundred years and still haven't lost my Transylvania accent.
Click to expand...




You suck!


----------



## yidnar

BDBoop said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> He actually said that it should be the official language of the United States government...which I assume is directed at bilingual education. There is definitely an argument to be made that it compels people to assimilate more quickly, but not sure if it needs to be "official".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That helps. Until I get a chance to actually watch the debates this weekend, I'm a bit short on facts.
Click to expand...

you need more facts to decide if english should be the official language!! WHY??


----------



## Unkotare

Againsheila said:


> English IS our official language.  People really should know their history.  It was decided back when we became a country and congress was deciding what language we should have.  Dutch came in a close second.  As far as I know, Spanish wasn't even on the list.




No, it's not and since there was never such a designation there was no close or distant second.


----------



## AVG-JOE

oracle said:


> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't know that I was here to change your pampers, or be your play date. By the way, it was intended to be mean. I'm not in the business of pacifying folks on this site. As it stands everyone at some point or another is at each others throat. I started out trying to be nice and was given the bums rush. I learned quickly where you folks hail from theoretically. Everyone believes in free speech, until you piss them off. Well now I cut to the chase. If I perceive stupid, I call stupid. This site is designed merely to inspire pissing contests anyway. Do you REALLY think you matter to the other folks that come here? I know I don't. Nor do they, to me. So I don't really think I need your opinion, or code of ethics on what's mean or not. Let miss fao chipowah defend herself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All I'm saying is that you'll catch more flies with honey than you will with vinegar, giving instant value to your opinion, making it that much more likely that you're not wasting your time here.
> 
> And yes, I do think my opinion matters.  I think yours matters too.
> 
> As far as the rest goes, calling stupid is as stupid does is kind of what this board is all about and it's certainly what keeps MY dear readers coming back for more.  But a quick wit is all I have - I'm not lucky like Ravi to have both a quick wit and a smokin' bod.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stop it hippie. When you leave here, you don't plan your day around what I say. Even if you agree with something I say, it only has about an 20/80 chance of becoming one of your talking points. By the way, who wants to catch flies for any reason than crushing them anyway?
Click to expand...


As long as you have a reason to do what you do..... keep rockin'.


----------



## yidnar

next the libtards  will want road signs in braille!!


----------



## Unkotare

Againsheila said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> While whites are the majority so will speaking English be the majority.
> 
> When Hispanics become the majority so will speaking Spanish be the majority.
> 
> It's that simple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I told you, English IS our official language.
Click to expand...



And you were wrong.


----------



## Unkotare

Againsheila said:


> the Spanish speaking morons who come here and expect us to speak their language.




Who is doing this terrible thing to you, champ?


----------



## rightwinger

Againsheila said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing that, either you ARE hispanic, or you have never had an encounter with one that barely speaks English. If part of the immigration process was learning English, adjusting would be easier, no? If all immigrants were required to learn English, you'd know who wasn't here legally for the most part, would you not? As far as the person I was responding to initially...hideous speaks for itself...using my free speech and all. If it still makes no sense, then you are clearly a poster child for why we should act now! Of course you'll argue to be contrary. Folks that post like you, usually do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are really, really bad at guessing, and - again - demonstrating an ability to speak English is part of the (legal) immigration process.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When I lived in Mexico years ago, I sat though a lecture, in Spanish, about how terrible it was that so many Americans were going down there without learning the language.  I reserve the right to give that same lecture IN ENGLISH to the Spanish speaking morons who come here and expect us to speak their language.
Click to expand...


This is a free country. You are welcome to lecture as many Mexicans as you want that they should be speaking English

Good luck to you


----------



## Againsheila

rightwinger said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> A 911 operator does not have to speak every language. But they should have access to people who do.
> 
> The person making that call may be calling to save YOUR life againshiela. Would you like 911 to hang up on them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do you even expect them to know what language is being spoken?  Why should those who work at 911 be language experts?  Do you have any idea what the job entails?  How much it pays?  They can't afford to hire language experts.  If you can't speak English, you sure as heck shouldn't expect 911 to understand you.
> 
> When we were in Japan, if we needed to call for help, we called one of our English speaking friends.  We sure as hell didn't expect everyone there to speak English, how stupid is that?
> 
> If I'm in trouble and the only person who can call 911 doesn't speak English, I expect I'll die.  Maybe it's time to stop illegal immigration completely and curtail legal immigration reducing the chances of someone who doesn't speak our languages having to use our resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We expect our 911 operators to do everything possible to save a life. That can include identifying the language the caller is speaking and having access to someone who speaks that language
> 
> It is not a gotcha situation. That 911 caller may be a visitor from another country and the victim may be an English speaking American citizen
Click to expand...


"can" being the operative word.   The truth is that the job doesn't include being able to identify other languages.  You want to make that part of the job, you're gonna have to raise the pay.


----------



## Againsheila

Unkotare said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> While whites are the majority so will speaking English be the majority.
> 
> When Hispanics become the majority so will speaking Spanish be the majority.
> 
> It's that simple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I told you, English IS our official language.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And you were wrong.
Click to expand...


Interesting...the same people that claim that church and state are separate, not based on the Constitution, but on a letter written by Thomas Jefferson, are claiming that English is not our official language because it isn't in the constitution in-spite of the fact that since the very beginning, congress agreed that English would be our language.  Not just one man, the entire Congress of the USA.


----------



## hortysir

rightwinger said:


> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only read the first 40 replies before posting so apologies if it's already been pointed out.
> 
> What the Newt actually said was 'make English the official language of government'.
> I take that to mean that you're applying to any government entity you need to know English.
> Be it your driver's license, social security card, passport, or whatever.
> 
> If you come to this country legally and go through the citizenship process properly this should pose no problem for you.
> If it does, tough shit, go back.
> 
> 
> And stop with the England English bullshit. You're nit-picking and look stupid with your petty shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Government represents the people. There is no law that says you have to speak English to pay your taxes. In communicating with it's citizens government has an obligation to be as open as possible.
Click to expand...


If you are a citizen English shouldn't be a barrier.


----------



## Unkotare

Againsheila said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> I told you, English IS our official language.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you were wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting...the same people that claim that church and state are separate, not based on the Constitution, but on a letter written by Thomas Jefferson, are claiming that English is not our official language because it isn't in the constitution in-spite of the fact that since the very beginning, congress agreed that English would be our language.  Not just one man, the entire Congress of the USA.
Click to expand...



You are misinformed. Provide proof of English being legally designated the official and exclusive language of the United States or move to the back of the class.


----------



## oracle

rightwinger said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if you pay your taxes and call 911 you get hung up on because you don't speak English?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if you visit another country and call for help, you expect them to speak English for you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, in most other countries, 911 operators are able to speak English
Click to expand...


You just pulled that right out of your ass. I've been to several countries overseas and none of them used 911 as their emergency #


----------



## Avatar9

CoolBreeze said:


> Remember our motto,"*OUT OF ONE COMES MANY*






Againsheila said:


> I told you, English IS our official language.  That was decided back when we became a country.


Cite. Every legal resource in existence agrees that the USA never declared an official language.




Ravi said:


> So if you pay your taxes and call 911 you get hung up on because you don't speak English?


Are you always so stupid? they treat it the same as a hang-up or a silent line.


----------



## Ravi

Avatar9 said:


> CoolBreeze said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember our motto,"*OUT OF ONE COMES MANY*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> I told you, English IS our official language.  That was decided back when we became a country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cite. Every legal resource in existence agrees that the USA never declared an official language.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if you pay your taxes and call 911 you get hung up on because you don't speak English?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you always so stupid? they treat it the same as a hang-up or a silent line.
Click to expand...

Maybe where you live. That's pretty sad.


----------



## oracle

Unkotare said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, that really makes no sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How's that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Demonstrating an ability to speak English* is *part of the (legal) immigration process, but speaking it during your daily life is of course not required and would not be even if English were made our official language. And speaking English is in no way required of natural-born citizens.
Click to expand...


It doesn't have to be required stupid. People generally follow the surroundings they see every day. Now, what do born citizens see most often?


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, that really makes no sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing that, either you ARE hispanic, or you have never had an encounter with one that barely speaks English. If part of the immigration process was learning English, adjusting would be easier, no? If all immigrants were required to learn English, you'd know who wasn't here legally for the most part, would you not? As far as the person I was responding to initially...hideous speaks for itself...using my free speech and all. If it still makes no sense, then you are clearly a poster child for why we should act now! Of course you'll argue to be contrary. Folks that post like you, usually do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are really, really bad at guessing, and - again - demonstrating an ability to speak English is part of the (legal) immigration process.
Click to expand...




Hey, good post friend!


----------



## Unkotare

oracle said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> How's that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Demonstrating an ability to speak English* is *part of the (legal) immigration process, but speaking it during your daily life is of course not required and would not be even if English were made our official language. And speaking English is in no way required of natural-born citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn't have to be required stupid. People generally follow the surroundings they see every day. Now, what do born citizens see most often?
Click to expand...



As for what "born citizens see most often," that depends on your environment, doesn't it stupid? You are misinformed and your conclusion regarding the above made no sense for the reasons I have explained to you previously.


----------



## oracle

Unkotare said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, that really makes no sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing that, either you ARE hispanic, or you have never had an encounter with one that barely speaks English. If part of the immigration process was learning English, adjusting would be easier, no? If all immigrants were required to learn English, you'd know who wasn't here legally for the most part, would you not? As far as the person I was responding to initially...hideous speaks for itself...using my free speech and all. If it still makes no sense, then you are clearly a poster child for why we should act now! Of course you'll argue to be contrary. Folks that post like you, usually do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are really, really bad at guessing, and - again - demonstrating an ability to speak English is part of the (legal) immigration process.
Click to expand...


No I'm not. See as a perpetual simpleton, you don't even realize that you have proven my point. since, you are indicating that you are in fact NOT hispanic, you either spend lots of time dealing with people who speak very poor english, or you just decided to differ for the sake of being contrary. Gotcha!


----------



## hortysir

Unkotare said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing that, either you ARE hispanic, or you have never had an encounter with one that barely speaks English. If part of the immigration process was learning English, adjusting would be easier, no? If all immigrants were required to learn English, you'd know who wasn't here legally for the most part, would you not? As far as the person I was responding to initially...hideous speaks for itself...using my free speech and all. If it still makes no sense, then you are clearly a poster child for why we should act now! Of course you'll argue to be contrary. Folks that post like you, usually do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are really, really bad at guessing, and - again - demonstrating an ability to speak English is part of the (legal) immigration process.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, good post friend!
Click to expand...


Neg rep for replying to your own post.


----------



## oracle

Unkotare said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No they aren't.]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they really, really are.
Click to expand...


No! they really really are not.


----------



## oracle

Unkotare said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ask the English themselves and they will tell you that people in the US do not speak English, they speak American.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not if they are educated they don't.
Click to expand...


Well does she seem educated? Her entire rant is being made in honduras and brought to you by google.


----------



## Unkotare

oracle said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing that, either you ARE hispanic, or you have never had an encounter with one that barely speaks English. If part of the immigration process was learning English, adjusting would be easier, no? If all immigrants were required to learn English, you'd know who wasn't here legally for the most part, would you not? As far as the person I was responding to initially...hideous speaks for itself...using my free speech and all. If it still makes no sense, then you are clearly a poster child for why we should act now! Of course you'll argue to be contrary. Folks that post like you, usually do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are really, really bad at guessing, and - again - demonstrating an ability to speak English is part of the (legal) immigration process.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No I'm not.
Click to expand...



Yes, you are really, really bad at guessing since I am not 'hispanic' and I have a great deal of experience with people (of all backgrounds) who have varying degrees of English proficiency. Since those guesses were completely wrong, you are really, really bad at guessing. Do you understand, or should I explain it in more basic terms for you? Try this: You're a fucking moron.

The rest of your asinine post was both misinformed and illogical. You're batting 0, champ.


----------



## oracle

Unkotare said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..in Japan it is a requirement of their schools to learn at least 5 languages and one of the is usually English. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you nuts? It is not a requirement in Japan to learn 5 languages. English however, is not "usually," but always a required course.
> 
> 
> Where the hell do you get this stuff?
Click to expand...


Her ass.


----------



## oracle

AVG-JOE said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> All I'm saying is that you'll catch more flies with honey than you will with vinegar, giving instant value to your opinion, making it that much more likely that you're not wasting your time here.
> 
> And yes, I do think my opinion matters.  I think yours matters too.
> 
> As far as the rest goes, calling stupid is as stupid does is kind of what this board is all about and it's certainly what keeps MY dear readers coming back for more.  But a quick wit is all I have - I'm not lucky like Ravi to have both a quick wit and a smokin' bod.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop it hippie. When you leave here, you don't plan your day around what I say. Even if you agree with something I say, it only has about an 20/80 chance of becoming one of your talking points. By the way, who wants to catch flies for any reason than crushing them anyway?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As long as you have a reason to do what you do..... keep rockin'.
Click to expand...


Boredom.


----------



## Unkotare

oracle said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ask the English themselves and they will tell you that people in the US do not speak English, they speak American.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not if they are educated they don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well does she seem educated? Her entire rant is being made in honduras and brought to you by google.
Click to expand...



What does being in Honduras have to do with being educated or not?


----------



## rightwinger

Againsheila said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you even expect them to know what language is being spoken?  Why should those who work at 911 be language experts?  Do you have any idea what the job entails?  How much it pays?  They can't afford to hire language experts.  If you can't speak English, you sure as heck shouldn't expect 911 to understand you.
> 
> When we were in Japan, if we needed to call for help, we called one of our English speaking friends.  We sure as hell didn't expect everyone there to speak English, how stupid is that?
> 
> If I'm in trouble and the only person who can call 911 doesn't speak English, I expect I'll die.  Maybe it's time to stop illegal immigration completely and curtail legal immigration reducing the chances of someone who doesn't speak our languages having to use our resources.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We expect our 911 operators to do everything possible to save a life. That can include identifying the language the caller is speaking and having access to someone who speaks that language
> 
> It is not a gotcha situation. That 911 caller may be a visitor from another country and the victim may be an English speaking American citizen
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "can" being the operative word.   The truth is that the job doesn't include being able to identify other languages.  You want to make that part of the job, you're gonna have to raise the pay.
Click to expand...


Yea....like asking what language they speak? Or being able to tell Spanish from French or German?

That's worth big bucks


----------



## Unkotare

oracle said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> 
> No they aren't.]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they really, really are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No! they really really are not.
Click to expand...



It is a matter of fact. Adding obstinance to ignorance doesn't change matters of fact. Maybe you don't know what loan words are, or maybe you have no understanding of the history of the English language. Either way, you are not getting any less wrong by repeating a dim-witted and ignorant denial.


----------



## oracle

Unkotare said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Demonstrating an ability to speak English* is *part of the (legal) immigration process, but speaking it during your daily life is of course not required and would not be even if English were made our official language. And speaking English is in no way required of natural-born citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't have to be required stupid. People generally follow the surroundings they see every day. Now, what do born citizens see most often?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> As for what "born citizens see most often," that depends on your environment, doesn't it, stupid? You are misinformed and your conclusion regarding the above made no sense for the reasons I have explained to you previously.
Click to expand...


And what do you think they'll see most often in America dipshit. As far as being misinformed...look who's talking. By the way, you gave no reasons, you barked gibberish at the wall hoping something stuck. Idiots like you are the primary reason progressives are anything but.


----------



## oracle

Unkotare said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are really, really bad at guessing, and - again - demonstrating an ability to speak English is part of the (legal) immigration process.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I'm not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you are really, really bad at guessing since I am not 'hispanic' and I have a great deal of experience with people (of all backgrounds) who have varying degrees of English proficiency. Since those guesses were completely wrong, you are really, really bad at guessing. Do you understand, or should I explain it in more basic terms for you? Try this: You're a fucking moron.
> 
> The rest of your asinine post was both misinformed and illogical. You're batting 0, champ.
Click to expand...


Great choice in font faggot. people like you make me believe in euthanasia, CHUMP!


----------



## oracle

Unkotare said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not if they are educated they don't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well does she seem educated? Her entire rant is being made in honduras and brought to you by google.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What does being in Honduras have to do with being educated or not?
Click to expand...


Are you that thick? the thread is about ENGLISH in AMERICA!


----------



## Avatar9

Ravi said:


> Avatar9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> they treat it the same as a hang-up or a silent line.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe where you live. That's pretty sad.
Click to expand...

Sending emergency assistance to someone who doesn't speak English is sad?'

They should be left to die for not speaking English? 

You're a real piece of shit, aren't you?


----------



## oracle

Unkotare said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they really, really are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No! they really really are not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It is a matter of fact. Adding obstinance to ignorance doesn't change matters of fact. Maybe you don't know what loan words are, or maybe you have no understanding of the history of the English language. Either way, you are not getting any less wrong by repeating a dim-witted and ignorant denial.
Click to expand...


Loan words huh? when are we due to return them?


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

In _Ruiz v. Hull_, 957 P.2d 984 (Ariz. 1998), the Arizona Supreme Court struck down as un-Constitutional an amendment to that states constitution making English the official language: 



> 1 This opinion addresses the constitutionality of Article XXVIII of the Arizona Constitution (the "Amendment"), which was adopted in 1988 and which provides, inter alia, that English is the official language of the State of Arizona and that the state and its political subdivisions--including all government officials and employees performing government business--must "act" only in English.
> 
> 2 We hold that the Amendment violates the First Amendment to the United States Constitution because it adversely impacts the constitutional rights of non-English-speaking persons with regard to their obtaining access to their government and limits the political speech of elected officials and public employees.  We also hold that the Amendment violates the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution because it unduly burdens core First Amendment rights of a specific class without materially advancing a legitimate state interest.



A given jurisdiction may make English its official language, but must also provide forms and documents in other languages and have the ability to conduct official business in other languages, refusing to do so is un-Constitutional.


----------



## Avatar9

Learn English, get a translator, or get out.

If you hate America so much, leave. Stop trying to destroy it.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Xchel said:


> Gingrich is wrong...English should not be our official language..the USA is not England.



A common language is the basis of a civil society.

Those who seek to Balkanize the language, do so to sew dissent and disunity.


----------



## Uncensored2008

syrenn said:


> Lets make this easy for you. Do mexicans speak mexican or spanish?



According to my Argentine daughter in law, they speak Mexican. 

She says the language Mexicans speak is to Spanish as the language Jamaicans speak is to English.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Xchel said:


> Mexicans speak a dialect of Spanish but not all of them..some of them speak other languages.  In fact, there are 68 languages of Mexico, but you clearly did not know that.  So which language would it be that they speak? Some of them speak Nauhutl, Yucatec Maya, Mixtec, Zapotec, TZeltal Maya, Otomi, Totonac, Mazatec, Chotl*mayan*, and the list goes on and on including Qu' che..a mayan language common in Central America as well...but in just Nauhutl there are almost 2 million speakers and a lot of them don't speak Spanish...so when you ask what do they speak either Mexican or Spanish you would be clearly leaving out a good section of the population of Mexico that doesn't speak Spanish or even a dialect of Spanish, because NO Mexicans do not speak Castillian Spanish they speak Mexican Spanish and or a dialect of native americans.  They also speak English, Chinese, Hebrew and the list goes on and on...do you really want to continue this or perhaps find out a little more about languages in Mexico before we go this route?




Spanish is the official language of Mexico.


Kind of deflates your whole rant, doesn't it?


----------



## Uncensored2008

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> In _Ruiz v. Hull_, 957 P.2d 984 (Ariz. 1998), the Arizona Supreme Court struck down as un-Constitutional an amendment to that states constitution making English the official language:



How does the court strike down a constitutional amendment as "unconstitutional?" Kind of makes the whole farce of a constitution and government by the people meaningless, doesn't it?



> 1 This opinion addresses the constitutionality of Article XXVIII of the Arizona Constitution (the "Amendment"), which was adopted in 1988 and which provides, inter alia, that English is the official language of the State of Arizona and that the state and its political subdivisions--including all government officials and employees performing government business--must "act" only in English.
> 
> 2 We hold that the Amendment violates the First Amendment to the United States Constitution because it adversely impacts the constitutional rights of non-English-speaking persons with regard to their obtaining access to their government and limits the political speech of elected officials and public employees.  We also hold that the Amendment violates the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution because it unduly burdens core First Amendment rights of a specific class without materially advancing a legitimate state interest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A given jurisdiction may make English its official language, but must also provide forms and documents in other languages and have the ability to conduct official business in other languages, refusing to do so is un-Constitutional.
Click to expand...


Dictatorship, how wonderful it is.


----------



## Tank

If you really want English only, you better think about closing the border first


----------



## Unkotare

oracle said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> 
> No they aren't.]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they really, really are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No! they really really are not.
Click to expand...



Here you go. I'll try to find something simpler if you need.

Loanwords - definition of Loanwords by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.


----------



## Unkotare

Tank said:


> If you really want English only, you better think about closing the border first




As long as you are on the outside, shitheel.


----------



## Unkotare

oracle said:


> [ people like you make me believe in euthanasia, CHUMP!





Have fun. I hope you have someone to help you out of your pain.


----------



## Unkotare

oracle said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well does she seem educated? Her entire rant is being made in honduras and brought to you by google.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does being in Honduras have to do with being educated or not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you that thick? the thread is about ENGLISH in AMERICA!
Click to expand...




And someone in Honduras can't have an opinion about that? How fucking stupid are you?


----------



## Unkotare

oracle said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> No! they really really are not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a matter of fact. Adding obstinance to ignorance doesn't change matters of fact. Maybe you don't know what loan words are, or maybe you have no understanding of the history of the English language. Either way, you are not getting any less wrong by repeating a dim-witted and ignorant denial.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Loan words huh? when are we due to return them?
Click to expand...



Are you enjoying your ignorance? Getting all that 'bliss'?


----------



## Unkotare

Uncensored2008 said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets make this easy for you. Do mexicans speak mexican or spanish?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to my Argentine daughter in law, they speak Mexican.
> 
> She says the language Mexicans speak is to Spanish as the language Jamaicans speak is to English.
Click to expand...



That's because Portenos are famously (and ridiculously) arrogant.


----------



## Unkotare

oracle said:


> As far as being misinformed...look who's talking. .




I'm talking. You, in your ignorance, didn't know that demonstrating a degree of proficiency in English (capital 'E' you fucking idiot) IS part of the immigration process. You went on to try and draw several illogical conclusions from your ignorance and base stupidity. So yeah, look who is talking.


----------



## Xchel

_we're not in honduras now are we?_

I am and the question was directed at me personally so it made you look pretty foolish.

_If your concern was for honduras, then why worry about the topic of this thread?
_
I am a tax paying US citizen born and bred and lived in the US all my life..yeah it is my concern this very topic. I moved to Honduras for other reasons than because it is my concern. Also, I didn't stay where I came from because where I came from is Dallas, Texas...so what was that about wealthy staying where they came from? Also, I am not wealthy I am middle class.


----------



## Xchel

Spanish is the official language of Mexico

There isn't just one official language of Mexico, there are 68 official langauges of Mexico...so that deflates your argument.

Oracle, you seem to think that only Hondurans live in Honduras.  In fact, there are a great variety of people here including AMERICANS, CANADIANS, and EUROPEANS that are ex pats.  Yahoo groups even has a group called Honduras living exclusively for ex pats from the US that live in Honduras.  Seems you need to learn a few things before you talk about who is or is not educated.  I am college eduated and went to a university in the state of Georgia.  That however, is not the topic, the topic of this thread is English being the official language..and since Puerto Rico is a territory of the US how do you figure that the language being there is Spanish is going to jive with an official language of English? Second, in the US a person can speak in whatever the damn hell language they want to.....since there are curse words in there perhaps you can understand the structure.


----------



## HenryBHough

Having lived in several South American countries let me assure that the best way to make sure you're ridiculed and denigrated is to speak "Mexican Spanish".  Second best is to speak Castellano con un ceceo.


----------



## 12lvining

I think that if you live in America, you should speak English. It is a completely fair expectation. It will better your future in America if you learn the English language.


----------



## Xchel

12lvining said:


> I think that if you live in America, you should speak English. It is a completely fair expectation. It will better your future in America if you learn the English language.



If you live in America? Or if you live in the USA? America is a continent, the USA is the country in the Americas.  While it will better your future it should not be a law...no one should be forced to speak anything they don't want to.


----------



## oracle

Unkotare said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is a matter of fact. Adding obstinance to ignorance doesn't change matters of fact. Maybe you don't know what loan words are, or maybe you have no understanding of the history of the English language. Either way, you are not getting any less wrong by repeating a dim-witted and ignorant denial.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loan words huh? when are we due to return them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Are you enjoying your ignorance? Getting all that 'bliss'?
Click to expand...


stop it alien. you don't even know what ignorance is. Your inability to stifle yourself is proof positive. Oh, and just so you know, while you think you have a fan base, most of your "champions" wouldn't want you in their neighborhood, not because you're mexican (which you clearly are) but because a face like yours brings down property values. Sorry fao.


----------



## oracle

Uncensored2008 said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mexicans speak a dialect of Spanish but not all of them..some of them speak other languages.  In fact, there are 68 languages of Mexico, but you clearly did not know that.  So which language would it be that they speak? Some of them speak Nauhutl, Yucatec Maya, Mixtec, Zapotec, TZeltal Maya, Otomi, Totonac, Mazatec, Chotl*mayan*, and the list goes on and on including Qu' che..a mayan language common in Central America as well...but in just Nauhutl there are almost 2 million speakers and a lot of them don't speak Spanish...so when you ask what do they speak either Mexican or Spanish you would be clearly leaving out a good section of the population of Mexico that doesn't speak Spanish or even a dialect of Spanish, because NO Mexicans do not speak Castillian Spanish they speak Mexican Spanish and or a dialect of native americans.  They also speak English, Chinese, Hebrew and the list goes on and on...do you really want to continue this or perhaps find out a little more about languages in Mexico before we go this route?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spanish is the official language of Mexico.
> 
> 
> Kind of deflates your whole rant, doesn't it?
Click to expand...

It sure does. As a matter of fact, ask the google queen to tell you how many bean institutes require english in their classrooms.


----------



## oracle

Unkotare said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ people like you make me believe in euthanasia, CHUMP!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have fun. I hope you have someone to help you out of your pain.
Click to expand...


Does your neighbor have a phone?


----------



## oracle

Unkotare said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does being in Honduras have to do with being educated or not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you that thick? the thread is about ENGLISH in AMERICA!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And someone in Honduras can't have an opinion about that? How fucking stupid are you?
Click to expand...


No they can't. they don't want an opinion about honduras. As the saying goes people who live in glass houses...


----------



## oracle

Unkotare said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does being in Honduras have to do with being educated or not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you that thick? the thread is about ENGLISH in AMERICA!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And someone in Honduras can't have an opinion about that? How fucking stupid are you?
Click to expand...


And for the record, I'm as dumb as you are gay...if that helps.


----------



## oracle

Unkotare said:


> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> As far as being misinformed...look who's talking. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm talking. You, in your ignorance, didn't know that demonstrating a degree of proficiency in English (capital 'E' you fucking idiot) IS part of the immigration process. You went on to try and draw several illogical conclusions from your ignorance and base stupidity. So yeah, look who is talking.
Click to expand...


You must be a professional fag. You've obviously licked so much o-ring in your life, that all you DO is talk shit.


----------



## rightwinger

12lvining said:


> I think that if you live in America, you should speak English. It is a completely fair expectation. It will better your future in America if you learn the English language.



And that's the way it is. Most immigrants do learn English and it is required for citizenship. However, many immigrants, like many Americans have difficulty in learning another language. Penalizing people and denying them access to Govt assistance that they pay taxes for is just plain vindictive. 
We have gone over 200 years without making English the official language. There is no reason to do so now


----------



## oracle

Xchel said:


> _we're not in honduras now are we?_
> 
> I am and the question was directed at me personally so it made you look pretty foolish.
> 
> _If your concern was for honduras, then why worry about the topic of this thread?
> _
> I am a tax paying US citizen born and bred and lived in the US all my life..yeah it is my concern this very topic. I moved to Honduras for other reasons than because it is my concern. Also, I didn't stay where I came from because where I came from is Dallas, Texas...so what was that about wealthy staying where they came from? Also, I am not wealthy I am middle class.



Lower at best. And Texas huh? but not mexican? What taxes do you pay to America in honduras? why did you leave? La Migra I'll bet. In any case who cares, I just like getting under the skin of assholes like you and apparently it doesn't take much, right fao?


----------



## oracle

Xchel said:


> Spanish is the official language of Mexico
> 
> There isn't just one official language of Mexico, there are 68 official langauges of Mexico...so that deflates your argument.
> 
> Oracle, you seem to think that only Hondurans live in Honduras.  In fact, there are a great variety of people here including AMERICANS, CANADIANS, and EUROPEANS that are ex pats.  Yahoo groups even has a group called Honduras living exclusively for ex pats from the US that live in Honduras.  Seems you need to learn a few things before you talk about who is or is not educated.  I am college eduated and went to a university in the state of Georgia.  That however, is not the topic, the topic of this thread is English being the official language..and since Puerto Rico is a territory of the US how do you figure that the language being there is Spanish is going to jive with an official language of English? Second, in the US a person can speak in whatever the damn hell language they want to.....since there are curse words in there perhaps you can understand the structure.



Wow you got me all wrong. I know not all people there are from honduras. Take for instance, YOU. You are from Texas and you are a mexicant. and as far as college...BIG DEAL. I'm college educated too. I graduated from Syracuse. I noticed however that you didn't NAME your "community" college, nor did you give me a major and minor. Keep in mind, horticulture doesn't count as education. Anyone can cut grass, granted you guys have the market cornered, but I digress.


----------



## oracle

Xchel said:


> 12lvining said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think that if you live in America, you should speak English. It is a completely fair expectation. It will better your future in America if you learn the English language.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you live in America? Or if you live in the USA? America is a continent, the USA is the country in the Americas.  While it will better your future it should not be a law...no one should be forced to speak anything they don't want to.
Click to expand...


And google strikes again.


----------



## Avatar9

Xchel said:


> 12lvining said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think that if you live in America, you should speak English. It is a completely fair expectation. It will better your future in America if you learn the English language.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you live in America? Or if you live in the USA? America is a continent
Click to expand...


No, North- and South America are continents. America/American are known to any not retarded to refer to the United States of America and the people thereof.





> , the USA is the country in the Americas.



There's only one country in the Americas?


> no one should be forced to speak anything they don't want to.


Nobody's advocating any such thing. You're more than welcome to keep your mouth shut.


----------



## BDBoop

oracle said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Loan words huh? when are we due to return them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you enjoying your ignorance? Getting all that 'bliss'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> stop it alien. you don't even know what ignorance is. Your inability to stifle yourself is proof positive. Oh, and just so you know, while you think you have a fan base, most of your "champions" wouldn't want you in their neighborhood, not because you're mexican (which you clearly are) but because a face like yours brings down property values. Sorry fao.
Click to expand...


Oh, hey now. If the inability to stifle oneself is proof positive of ignorance, 3/4 of the board just got pwned.


----------



## DiAnna

Judging by the length of this thread, I'm assuming it's been hijacked all to hell by now so my answer probably won't make sense.  But yes, English should be declared the official language of the U.S. government.


----------



## Unkotare

oracle said:


> stop it alien. you don't even know what ignorance is. Your inability to stifle yourself is proof positive. Oh, and just so you know, while you think you have a fan base, most of your "champions" wouldn't want you in their neighborhood, not because you're mexican (which you clearly are) but because a face like yours brings down property values. Sorry fao.





We have already established that you are very, very, very bad at guessing. No need to keep proving the point by being wrong again and again and again as you are in the above post.


----------



## Unkotare

oracle said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ people like you make me believe in euthanasia, CHUMP!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have fun. I hope you have someone to help you out of your pain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does your neighbor have a phone?
Click to expand...




Not sure what that was supposed to mean.


----------



## Unkotare

oracle said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you that thick? the thread is about ENGLISH in AMERICA!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And someone in Honduras can't have an opinion about that? How fucking stupid are you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No they can't....
Click to expand...




You're a fucking idiot.


----------



## Unkotare

oracle said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oracle said:
> 
> 
> 
> As far as being misinformed...look who's talking. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm talking. You, in your ignorance, didn't know that demonstrating a degree of proficiency in English (capital 'E' you fucking idiot) IS part of the immigration process. You went on to try and draw several illogical conclusions from your ignorance and base stupidity. So yeah, look who is talking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You must be a professional fag. You've obviously licked so much o-ring in your life, that all you DO is talk shit.
Click to expand...




Do you really think that distracted anyone from all of your errors, idiot?


----------



## Xchel

oracle said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> _we're not in honduras now are we?_
> 
> I am and the question was directed at me personally so it made you look pretty foolish.
> 
> _If your concern was for honduras, then why worry about the topic of this thread?
> _
> I am a tax paying US citizen born and bred and lived in the US all my life..yeah it is my concern this very topic. I moved to Honduras for other reasons than because it is my concern. Also, I didn't stay where I came from because where I came from is Dallas, Texas...so what was that about wealthy staying where they came from? Also, I am not wealthy I am middle class.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lower at best. And Texas huh? but not mexican? What taxes do you pay to America in honduras? why did you leave? La Migra I'll bet. In any case who cares, I just like getting under the skin of assholes like you and apparently it doesn't take much, right fao?
Click to expand...


Texas yes...born in Dallas, Texas and raised in Amarillo, Texas.  No, I am not Mexican, I am half Cherokee Indian.  What taxes do I pay? Well if you knew anything about tax law you would know that even though I live in Honduras as a US citizen I am required by law to file and pay taxes and I pay at a higher rate than folks who live stateside.  Why would la migra bother me? Not in the least since I am US born and I am a Native American as well as my parents and grandparents who were born on the rez.   You don't bother me, you just keep digging yourself in deeper and making yourself look more foolish.


----------



## Unkotare

Is oracle done being stupid, or is there more to the show?


----------



## Xchel

oracle said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Spanish is the official language of Mexico
> 
> There isn't just one official language of Mexico, there are 68 official langauges of Mexico...so that deflates your argument.
> 
> Oracle, you seem to think that only Hondurans live in Honduras.  In fact, there are a great variety of people here including AMERICANS, CANADIANS, and EUROPEANS that are ex pats.  Yahoo groups even has a group called Honduras living exclusively for ex pats from the US that live in Honduras.  Seems you need to learn a few things before you talk about who is or is not educated.  I am college eduated and went to a university in the state of Georgia.  That however, is not the topic, the topic of this thread is English being the official language..and since Puerto Rico is a territory of the US how do you figure that the language being there is Spanish is going to jive with an official language of English? Second, in the US a person can speak in whatever the damn hell language they want to.....since there are curse words in there perhaps you can understand the structure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow you got me all wrong. I know not all people there are from honduras. Take for instance, YOU. You are from Texas and you are a mexicant. and as far as college...BIG DEAL. I'm college educated too. I graduated from Syracuse. I noticed however that you didn't NAME your "community" college, nor did you give me a major and minor. Keep in mind, horticulture doesn't count as education. Anyone can cut grass, granted you guys have the market cornered, but I digress.
Click to expand...


I went to Moorehouse and University of Georgia, any more stupid questions? Had you bothered to read up a bit I have already mentioned that I was pre med in another thread, but why does it matter what I studied? I don't find the need to brag like you seem to which means to me that you are a third rate liar...those who shout and insult the most usually are compensating for their own inabilities.


----------



## Foxfyre

Wishing some people would take their food fight to the Flame Zone so we could discuss this topic as I believe it is an important one.

America was built, explored, settled, and developed by immigrants.  Most came to this country legally with a great deal of personal risk and with no resources other than their resourcefulness and willingness to work for a living.  The welfare state did not exist until we were well into the 20th Century.  The immigrants expected nothing from their new country but the ability to make a new life for themselves here.  And they did.

To become citizens, they also expected to learn the basics of U.S. law, learn something of U.S. history, be familiar with the content of the U.S. Constitution, know enough English to be able to read signs and communicate at least in the basics, and take their oath of allegiance to this country in English.

Each one added some extra flavor to the soup, but immigrants were mostly seamlessly integrated into the unqiuely American culture.  Many experienced discrimination from folks who didn't want them competing for housing and jobs, but they persevered, did not expect anybody to fight their battles for them, and they became proud Americans that have been a tremendous asset.

Compare that to what we now have.  People who demand that they retain their old country ways and flag that must be respected, who demand that we communicate with them in the language they brought, and who scorn American history, culture, and ethic.  (Which makes me wonder why in the hell they didn't just stay in the old country?) But then we have a whole crop of Americans coming up who don't know our history, our constitution, can barely speak decent English, and who scorn American history, culture, and ethic.

Borders, language, culture define what a country is and brings out the best that it has.  When we lose any of that, we become something very different than what we were.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..in Japan it is a requirement of their schools to learn at least 5 languages and one of the is usually English. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you nuts? It is not a requirement in Japan to learn 5 languages. English however, is not "usually," but always a required course.
> 
> 
> Where the hell do you get this stuff?
Click to expand...



It is a shame that this post was not responded to.


----------



## Unkotare

Foxfyre said:


> Wishing some people would take their food fight to the Flame Zone so we could discuss this topic as I believe it is an important one.
> 
> America was built, explored, settled, and developed by immigrants.  Most came to this country legally with a great deal of personal risk and with no resources other than their resourcefulness and willingness to work for a living.  The welfare state did not exist until we were well into the 20th Century.  The immigrants expected nothing from their new country but the ability to make a new life for themselves here.  And they did.
> 
> To become citizens, they also expected to learn the basics of U.S. law, learn something of U.S. history, be familiar with the content of the U.S. Constitution, know enough English to be able to read signs and communicate at least in the basics, and take their oath of allegiance to this country in English.
> 
> Each one added some extra flavor to the soup, but immigrants were mostly seamlessly integrated into the unqiuely American culture.  Many experienced discrimination from folks who didn't want them competing for housing and jobs, but they persevered, did not expect anybody to fight their battles for them, and they became proud Americans that have been a tremendous asset.
> 
> Compare that to what we now have. .





We have the same. it was never a matter of absolutes. People confuse the need to stop ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION with all other matters of immigration.


----------



## Xchel

Unkotare said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..in Japan it is a requirement of their schools to learn at least 5 languages and one of the is usually English. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you nuts? It is not a requirement in Japan to learn 5 languages. English however, is not "usually," but always a required course.
> 
> 
> Where the hell do you get this stuff?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It is a shame that this post was not responded to.
Click to expand...


Japanese students are required to learn the three different forms of Japanese, Chinese, English, and at least one if not two other forms of Asian languages such as Thai.  I know this because I have a friend that went to high school in Japan, she is Japanese.


----------



## Wicked Jester

Xchel said:


> First of all I am not Mexican. I am Cherokee Indian and Hispanic...so let's make it easy for you...get a life this is not England and we don't speak English here.  Furthermore, making any language EXCLUSIVE to any part of life makes it a violation of freedom of speech in the constitution.


Soooooo, get your Hush Puppies back to the reservation and speak whatever the fuck you please......This is the United States Of America......We speak english, deal with it.


----------



## Unkotare

Xchel said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you nuts? It is not a requirement in Japan to learn 5 languages. English however, is not "usually," but always a required course.
> 
> 
> Where the hell do you get this stuff?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a shame that this post was not responded to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Japanese students are required to learn the three different forms of Japanese, Chinese, English, and at least one if not two other forms of Asian languages such as Thai.  I know this because I have a friend that went to high school in Japan, she is Japanese.
Click to expand...




You are insanely incorrect. 


There is only one 'form' of Japanese (leaving aside dialects). You need to speak to your friend again because you have been badly misinformed.


----------



## Foxfyre

Unkotare said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wishing some people would take their food fight to the Flame Zone so we could discuss this topic as I believe it is an important one.
> 
> America was built, explored, settled, and developed by immigrants.  Most came to this country legally with a great deal of personal risk and with no resources other than their resourcefulness and willingness to work for a living.  The welfare state did not exist until we were well into the 20th Century.  The immigrants expected nothing from their new country but the ability to make a new life for themselves here.  And they did.
> 
> To become citizens, they also expected to learn the basics of U.S. law, learn something of U.S. history, be familiar with the content of the U.S. Constitution, know enough English to be able to read signs and communicate at least in the basics, and take their oath of allegiance to this country in English.
> 
> Each one added some extra flavor to the soup, but immigrants were mostly seamlessly integrated into the unqiuely American culture.  Many experienced discrimination from folks who didn't want them competing for housing and jobs, but they persevered, did not expect anybody to fight their battles for them, and they became proud Americans that have been a tremendous asset.
> 
> Compare that to what we now have. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have the same. it was never a matter of absolutes. People confuse the need to stop ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION with all other matters of immigration.
Click to expand...


The problem we have is with people wanting to threat illegal immigrants as legal immigrants but with no strings attached.  Some want them put on an immediate path to citizenship while they have government forms furnished to them in their language, are not required to learn English, are not required nor even encouraged to learn US laws, history, culture, ethic much less renounce their allegiance to their former country.   This is not good for them.  It is not good for us.


----------



## Xchel

Wicked Jester said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of all I am not Mexican. I am Cherokee Indian and Hispanic...so let's make it easy for you...get a life this is not England and we don't speak English here.  Furthermore, making any language EXCLUSIVE to any part of life makes it a violation of freedom of speech in the constitution.
> 
> 
> 
> Soooooo, get your Hush Puppies back to the reservation and speak whatever the fuck you please......This is the United States Of America......We speak english, deal with it.
Click to expand...


Actually we speak lots of things..American, I suppose the English speak the Queen's English, Spanish, Creole, French, Cherokee, Navajo, and about a thousand other languages like Gailic, German and so forth, it has always been that way and as long as the constitution says I can speak what I want I will tell you to kiss my ass and to mind your own damn business if you say something to me about speaking another language in the USA...because it is after all the USA not Cuba or Iran. My son went to Afghanistan so that I and others have the right to do whatever the hell we please as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's rights.


----------



## Foxfyre

I have zero problem with anybody speaking any language they wish to each other.  I strongly advocate everybody learning at least one language other than their native language.

But I have a HUGE problem with not promoting a cohesive society that is much safer and satisfying to all if everybody can speak the same language.  Everybody who is a citizen should be able to read English well enough to not need special forms in their native tongue.  Everybody who is a citizen should be able to read warning signs or instructions in English.  Everybody who is a citizen should be able to take instructions from authorities as necessary and those authorities should be speaking in English.  Everybody who is a citizen should be able to renounce allegiance to their former country and take their oath of allegiance to the USA in English.  School children should be able to be instructed in English.

(Former immigrants were required to learn English on their own without any government help.  And that is as it should be.  I used to help teach English and Constitution in immigrant classes preparing for their citizenship exams and oath of allegiance.)

And then if they want to speak whatever language they like best the rest of the time, no problem with that at all.


----------



## Xchel

Former immigrants were required to learn English on their own without any government help. 

This is false, in fact in previous immigrants school lessons were taught exclusively in their native language like German.


----------



## Xchel

The three types of Japanese are kanji, hiragana, and katakana...there are dozens of dialects of Japanese, not just three.


----------



## Wicked Jester

Foxfyre said:


> I have zero problem with anybody speaking any language they wish to each other.  I strongly advocate everybody learning at least one language other than their native language.
> 
> But I have a HUGE problem with not promoting a cohesive society that is much safer and satisfying to all if everybody can speak the same language.  Everybody who is a citizen should be able to read English well enough to not need special forms in their native tongue.  Everybody who is a citizen should be able to read warning signs or instructions in English.  Everybody who is a citizen should be able to take instructions from authorities as necessary and those authorities should be speaking in English.  Everybody who is a citizen should be able to renounce allegiance to their former country and take their oath of allegiance to the USA in English.  School children should be able to be instructed in English.
> 
> (Former immigrants were required to learn English on their own without any government help.  And that is as it should be.  I used to help teach English and Constitution in immigrant classes preparing for their citizenship exams and oath of allegiance.)
> 
> And then if they want to speak whatever language they like best the rest of the time, no problem with that at all.


We desperately need to go back to our old immigration system. Our immigration system nowadays is seriously screwed up.........We must go back to immigrants being thoroughly checked out before being allowed to enter. They need to have a sponsor who is fully responsible for the immigrant, and held accountable along with the immigtant for their actions. They must demonstrate that they have money in their pocket to survive, and will not be immediately applying to suck off the system. No money, no entrance. They need to be fully versed in English before becoming a citizen......And of course, CLOSE OFF THAT SOUTHERN BORDER, AND START CHECKING OUT EVERYBODY WHO COMES ACROSS IT...It is a major disaster that is just waiting to happen.


----------



## Xchel

We desperately need to go back to our old immigration system. Our immigration system nowadays is seriously screwed up........
_I agreed up to this point but...._

.We must go back to immigrants being thoroughly checked out before being allowed to enter.
_immigrants weren't thoroughly checked previously they were simply checked for diseases_

 They need to have a sponsor who is fully responsible for the immigrant, and held accountable along with the immigtant for their actions.
_A person is biographically responisble for the person they sponser in immigration.  Not everyone requires a sponser though it depends on how you immigrate.  You can't hold a person responsible for someone else's actions, but financially you can and they are held financially responsible._

 They must demonstrate that they have money in their pocket to survive, and will not be immediately applying to suck off the system. No money, no entrance. They need to be fully versed in English before becoming a citizen......

_all of these things are already requirements.  You don't know much about our current immigration requirements do you? They don't require you to be fully versed, but that would be ridiculous, most natural born citizens aren't fully versed in English._

And of course, CLOSE OFF THAT SOUTHERN BORDER, AND START CHECKING OUT EVERYBODY WHO COMES ACROSS IT...It is a major disaster that is just waiting to happen.

_Why just the southern border?_


----------



## Wicked Jester

Xchel said:


> Former immigrants were required to learn English on their own without any government help.
> 
> This is false, in fact in previous immigrants school lessons were taught exclusively in their native language like German.


You are wrong.....Immigrants had to be fluent in English before obtaining citizenship, for a reason......We are an English speaking nation. All road signs are in English. All major communication are in English. Our military speaks English. You don't speak English fluently, and concisely, c-ya sucker. You don't join, period.

It's time to do away with the PC bullshit, and declare English our official language once and for all......And anybody who doesn't like it, can go fuck themselves


----------



## Wicked Jester

Xchel said:


> We desperately need to go back to our old immigration system. Our immigration system nowadays is seriously screwed up........
> _I agreed up to this point but...._
> 
> .We must go back to immigrants being thoroughly checked out before being allowed to enter.
> _immigrants weren't thoroughly checked previously they were simply checked for diseases_
> 
> They need to have a sponsor who is fully responsible for the immigrant, and held accountable along with the immigtant for their actions.
> _A person is biographically responisble for the person they sponser in immigration.  Not everyone requires a sponser though it depends on how you immigrate.  You can't hold a person responsible for someone else's actions, but financially you can and they are held financially responsible._
> 
> They must demonstrate that they have money in their pocket to survive, and will not be immediately applying to suck off the system. No money, no entrance. They need to be fully versed in English before becoming a citizen......
> 
> _all of these things are already requirements.  You don't know much about our current immigration requirements do you? They don't require you to be fully versed, but that would be ridiculous, most natural born citizens aren't fully versed in English._
> 
> And of course, CLOSE OFF THAT SOUTHERN BORDER, AND START CHECKING OUT EVERYBODY WHO COMES ACROSS IT...It is a major disaster that is just waiting to happen.
> 
> _Why just the southern border?_


Why just the southern border?

Hell, i'm all for sealing this country tight all around.....But at this exact time, we are being primarily invaded by criminals from the south......Once they illegally cross that border, they are criminals who must suffer the punishments under our laws, BEFORE they have a chance to meld into our society.......Best just to seal it off completely, and keep 'em out, once and for all. Enough is enough


----------



## Xchel

precisely how are you going to seal any border? WE can't seal the border it is a pipe dream that isn't going to happen and is ridiculous.

Second of all, I am not wrong about former immigrants and there was not a requirement that they know English before coming to the US.

http://americanspeech.dukejournals.org/content/83/3/259.full.pdf

in fact, there were schools that taught exclusively in German in the US for German immigrants and their children.


----------



## Xchel

Wicked Jester said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Former immigrants were required to learn English on their own without any government help.
> 
> This is false, in fact in previous immigrants school lessons were taught exclusively in their native language like German.
> 
> 
> 
> You are wrong.....Immigrants had to be fluent in English before obtaining citizenship, for a reason......We are an English speaking nation. All road signs are in English. All major communication are in English. Our military speaks English. You don't speak English fluently, and concisely, c-ya sucker. You don't join, period.
> 
> It's time to do away with the PC bullshit, and declare English our official language once and for all......And anybody who doesn't like it, can go fuck themselves
Click to expand...


Oh so you think that you are the only one with rights in the US right? Never mind that you don't get the exclusive authority to decide anything..our founders had no need to declare an official language and quite frankly it is stupid insecurity of anyone that thinks we need to do such a thing..English is not in danger of becoming extinct..and if Spanish became dominate what is the big deal really with what language it is that we speak?


----------



## Wicked Jester

Xchel said:


> precisely how are you going to seal any border? WE can't seal the border it is a pipe dream that isn't going to happen and is ridiculous.
> 
> Second of all, I am not wrong about former immigrants and there was not a requirement that they know English before coming to the US.
> 
> http://americanspeech.dukejournals.org/content/83/3/259.full.pdf
> 
> in fact, there were schools that taught exclusively in German in the US for German immigrants and their children.


No, you countered Foxfyres point that immigrants had to be fluent in english before being granted citizenship, which is the absolute truth. Before raisng their hand, they had to be fluent. And that is the way it always must be. We are an English speaking nation, period.

Next time, check the context of the poster before replying.


----------



## Xchel

Jester, you need to verse yourself in immigration law and what is required before you start preaching to the choir.  Sounds like you didn't realize all those things were required already that you suggested.  however,English has never been an official language and it should not be.  Why? quite simple....we have no need to make anything official as we aren't Iran or Cuba.


----------



## Wicked Jester

Xchel said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Former immigrants were required to learn English on their own without any government help.
> 
> This is false, in fact in previous immigrants school lessons were taught exclusively in their native language like German.
> 
> 
> 
> You are wrong.....Immigrants had to be fluent in English before obtaining citizenship, for a reason......We are an English speaking nation. All road signs are in English. All major communication are in English. Our military speaks English. You don't speak English fluently, and concisely, c-ya sucker. You don't join, period.
> 
> It's time to do away with the PC bullshit, and declare English our official language once and for all......And anybody who doesn't like it, can go fuck themselves
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh so you think that you are the only one with rights in the US right? Never mind that you don't get the exclusive authority to decide anything..our founders had no need to declare an official language and quite frankly it is stupid insecurity of anyone that thinks we need to do such a thing..English is not in danger of becoming extinct..and if Spanish became dominate what is the big deal really with what language it is that we speak?
Click to expand...

English is the language of this country. Everything is based around English. It should be made the official language once and for all......And I guarantee, if it ever goes to vote, it will resoundingly become the official language, as it should.

If you want to speak that spanish jibberish, go ahead. It's my right to not listen or recognize the crap. Just as it was my right to require all my employees to speak English only, while on the job. But then, if they didn't speak perfectly fluent English, then they were never hired in the first place.


----------



## MeBelle

BDBoop said:


> I'm assuming you knew what he meant? We take English in high school, and we speak English. It has nothing to do with what country a person is in or from.



Yaaa' cause in Austria they speak Austrian!  Can't remember who said that!


----------



## Xchel

Wicked Jester said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are wrong.....Immigrants had to be fluent in English before obtaining citizenship, for a reason......We are an English speaking nation. All road signs are in English. All major communication are in English. Our military speaks English. You don't speak English fluently, and concisely, c-ya sucker. You don't join, period.
> 
> It's time to do away with the PC bullshit, and declare English our official language once and for all......And anybody who doesn't like it, can go fuck themselves
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh so you think that you are the only one with rights in the US right? Never mind that you don't get the exclusive authority to decide anything..our founders had no need to declare an official language and quite frankly it is stupid insecurity of anyone that thinks we need to do such a thing..English is not in danger of becoming extinct..and if Spanish became dominate what is the big deal really with what language it is that we speak?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> English is the language of this country. Everything is based around English. It should be made the official language once and for all......And I guarantee, if it ever goes to vote, it will resoundingly become the official language, as it should.
> 
> If you want to speak that spanish jibberish, go ahead. It's my right to not listen or recognize the crap. Just as it was my right to require all my employees to speak English only, while on the job. But then, if they didn't speak perfectly fluent English, then they were never hired in the first place.
Click to expand...


I speak Spanish, but it is hardly jibberish.  I also speak English and Cherokee.  No it is not your right to require English only of all of your employees..that is a good way to get yourself sued and no longer have a business if you keep it up..why? Several others had that attitude and found out they were wrong.  You can require a person know English if it is a safety need, but you cannot require that they speak English only.  You clearly don't own a business or you would know better.


----------



## Wicked Jester

Xchel said:


> Jester, you need to verse yourself in immigration law and what is required before you start preaching to the choir.  Sounds like you didn't realize all those things were required already that you suggested.  however,English has never been an official language and it should not be.  Why? quite simple....we have no need to make anything official as we aren't Iran or Cuba.


Xchel, you need to understand that this is the United States of America, and not some third world toilet in Central or South America. And that there are those in this country who will fight to ensure it never becomes one big shithole like those regions.

You want a perfect example of what those from south of the border do when they come to this country, look no further then what they've done to the San Fernando Valley in Southern California.......They turned what was a suburban oasis into a frigging hellhole, in record time.....And it's the same story in cities and towns all across the southwest.....Enough is enough.


----------



## Wicked Jester

Xchel said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh so you think that you are the only one with rights in the US right? Never mind that you don't get the exclusive authority to decide anything..our founders had no need to declare an official language and quite frankly it is stupid insecurity of anyone that thinks we need to do such a thing..English is not in danger of becoming extinct..and if Spanish became dominate what is the big deal really with what language it is that we speak?
> 
> 
> 
> English is the language of this country. Everything is based around English. It should be made the official language once and for all......And I guarantee, if it ever goes to vote, it will resoundingly become the official language, as it should.
> 
> If you want to speak that spanish jibberish, go ahead. It's my right to not listen or recognize the crap. Just as it was my right to require all my employees to speak English only, while on the job. But then, if they didn't speak perfectly fluent English, then they were never hired in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I speak Spanish, but it is hardly jibberish.  I also speak English and Cherokee.  No it is not your right to require English only of all of your employees..that is a good way to get yourself sued and no longer have a business if you keep it up..why? Several others had that attitude and found out they were wrong.  You can require a person know English if it is a safety need, but you cannot require that they speak English only.  You clearly don't own a business or you would know better.
Click to expand...

No, I had every right to require English only during business hours...Restaurant Kitchens are very dangerous places. Mis-communications can cause serious injuries or cost lives.....And, I needed no reason whatsover to fire anybody. Either they toed the line, or they packed. As long as they were on the clock, it was my rules.... What they did on their breaks, or lunch hours was their business. As long as they were outside the bulding, they could speak whatever jibberish they chose.


----------



## Xchel

Wicked Jester said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> English is the language of this country. Everything is based around English. It should be made the official language once and for all......And I guarantee, if it ever goes to vote, it will resoundingly become the official language, as it should.
> 
> If you want to speak that spanish jibberish, go ahead. It's my right to not listen or recognize the crap. Just as it was my right to require all my employees to speak English only, while on the job. But then, if they didn't speak perfectly fluent English, then they were never hired in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I speak Spanish, but it is hardly jibberish.  I also speak English and Cherokee.  No it is not your right to require English only of all of your employees..that is a good way to get yourself sued and no longer have a business if you keep it up..why? Several others had that attitude and found out they were wrong.  You can require a person know English if it is a safety need, but you cannot require that they speak English only.  You clearly don't own a business or you would know better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I had every right to require English only during business hours...Restaurant Kitchens are very dangerous places. Mis-communications can cause serious injuries or cost lives.....And, I needed no reason whatsover to fire anybody. Either they toed the line, or they packed. As long as they were on the clock, it was my rules.... What they did on their breaks, or lunch hours was their business. As long as they were outside the bulding, they could speak whatever jibberish they chose.
Click to expand...


and you would be wrong...I know plenty about restaurant kitchens, my grandparents owned a restaurant in Amarillo, Texas and there is no urgent English only need there.
Here are a few cases for you to think about...and while we are discussing it, my ex husband owns a trucking business and clearly there is a dangerous situation there that involves communication...if he doesn't require English only you are going to have a very hard time arguing that your dishwasher can't talk to another dishwasher in Spanish or Chinese because it is a safety issue..there is no need to speak English to one another there and there is no impending danger from it.

Two cases recently have involved "English-only" rules. In the first case, the EEOC has reached settlement of a case involving eight Hispanic workers of Watlow Batavia, Inc., who were either disciplined or fired for speaking Spanish in the workplace. Watlow Batavia, a manufacturer, in August 1998 barred communication in languages other than English during work hours, including breaks and lunch periods. One employee was fired for saying "good morning" in Spanish to a coworker. Under the settlement, the employer will pay a total of $192,500. EEOC v. Watlow Batavia Inc., N.D. Ill., No. 99C1435, consent decree (9/1/00).

In a second case, a class-action suit was filed by the EEOC on behalf of Hispanic workers against Premier Operator Services Inc. for national origin discrimination in violation of Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. The employees were initially hired by Premier, a long-distance telephone-operator service, because of their bilingual ability.

In 1996, Premier instituted an English-only policy during employee lunch periods and breaks. Hispanic employees were fired, laid off, or replaced over the next few months following their objecting to the policy, filing of EEOC complaints, or refusing to sign a memo describing the policy. A federal magistrate judge ordered Premier to pay $710,000 in damages to 13 Hispanic employees because the company's English-only policy "constitutes disparate treatment ... based upon their national origin." EEOC v. Premier Operator Services Inc., N.D. Tex., No. 3:98-CV-198-BF (9/13/00).


----------



## Unkotare

Xchel said:


> The three types of Japanese are kanji, hiragana, and katakana...there are dozens of dialects of Japanese, not just three.




Those are not three "types" of Japanese, genius. Those are three parts of the syllabary of the ONE Japanese language. 

You know what they say about a little knowledge...





You are highly misinformed.


----------



## Ravi

Wicked Jester said:


> Immigrants had to be fluent in English before obtaining citizenship


No they didn't.


----------



## Xchel

Unkotare, yes, which makes the language DIFFERENT, Japanese is a bit different than English.


----------



## Unkotare

Xchel said:


> Unkotare, yes, which makes the language DIFFERENT, Japanese is a bit different than English.





All languages are different. What you described is most certainly NOT "the three different kinds of Japanese," and Japanese students are NOT "required to learn five languages."


----------



## Ringel05

No entiendo lo que todos ustedes están diciendo. Podríamos usar el español por favor?


----------



## Unkotare

Ringel05 said:


> No entiendo lo que todos ustedes están diciendo. Podríamos usar el español por favor?



You understand what we are talking about. Don't be cute.


----------



## Ringel05

Unkotare said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No entiendo lo que todos ustedes están diciendo. Podríamos usar el español por favor?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You understand what we are talking about. Don't be cute.
Click to expand...


No ser cute? Eso es genéticamente imposible....!


----------



## Unkotare

Ok then, be a douche...


----------



## Ringel05

Unkotare said:


> Ok then, be a douche...



Was ist das problem? Ist ihre lustige knochen kaputt?


----------



## Unkotare

No, the only problem is you being a pretentious douche.


----------



## Ringel05

Unkotare said:


> No, the only problem is you being a pretentious douche.



Sure thing there Skippy.


----------



## Ringel05

Here ya go Skippy,






Might help you see better.


----------



## rightwinger

Making English the official language does not mean that everyone will have to speak english. The woman in line behind you in the supermarket can still yell at her kids in Spanish. The guy at the gas station can still speak Hindu to his worker. We are a multicultural society and like it or not, you will still be exposed to other languages

All it means is that Government publications and websites cannot be presented in other languages. It means that the government cannot communicate with the people in a language they understand. It means that more people will not receive critical information.


----------



## Ravi

rightwinger said:


> Making English the official language does not mean that everyone will have to speak english. The woman in line behind you in the supermarket can still yell at her kids in Spanish. The guy at the gas station can still speak Hindu to his worker. We are a multicultural society and like it or not, you will still be exposed to other languages
> 
> All it means is that Government publications and websites cannot be presented in other languages. It means that the government cannot communicate with the people in a language they understand. It means that more people will not receive critical information.


English is the official language in Florida. The ballots are still printed in English, Spanish, and Creole. It is still possible to get information from the government in other languages besides English.

It was nothing but a feel-good amendment designed to pander to xenophobes.


----------



## Xchel

Ravi said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Making English the official language does not mean that everyone will have to speak english. The woman in line behind you in the supermarket can still yell at her kids in Spanish. The guy at the gas station can still speak Hindu to his worker. We are a multicultural society and like it or not, you will still be exposed to other languages
> 
> All it means is that Government publications and websites cannot be presented in other languages. It means that the government cannot communicate with the people in a language they understand. It means that more people will not receive critical information.
> 
> 
> 
> English is the official language in Florida. The ballots are still printed in English, Spanish, and Creole. It is still possible to get information from the government in other languages besides English.
> 
> It was nothing but a feel-good amendment designed to pander to xenophobes.
Click to expand...


exactly which means it is senseless to waste time and money on it.  Why debate it? It costs money that we don't have and should be spending on something else.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare, yes, which makes the language DIFFERENT, Japanese is a bit different than English.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All languages are different. What you described is most certainly NOT "the three different kinds of Japanese," and Japanese students are NOT "required to learn five languages."
Click to expand...




Are you clear on that now?


----------



## Ringel05

Xchel said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Making English the official language does not mean that everyone will have to speak english. The woman in line behind you in the supermarket can still yell at her kids in Spanish. The guy at the gas station can still speak Hindu to his worker. We are a multicultural society and like it or not, you will still be exposed to other languages
> 
> All it means is that Government publications and websites cannot be presented in other languages. It means that the government cannot communicate with the people in a language they understand. It means that more people will not receive critical information.
> 
> 
> 
> English is the official language in Florida. The ballots are still printed in English, Spanish, and Creole. It is still possible to get information from the government in other languages besides English.
> 
> It was nothing but a feel-good amendment designed to pander to xenophobes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> exactly which means it is senseless to waste time and money on it.  Why debate it? It costs money that we don't have and should be spending on something else.
Click to expand...


It's a political issue that is obviously important to more than a few so some politicians are gonna latch onto it to pander to that demographic.  See, it's simple.


----------



## CoolBreeze

Xchel said:


> what other nation on this earth goes as far as we do to communicate with people that don't speak the native language?
> 
> All of them do..in Japan it is a requirement of their schools to learn at least 5 languages and one of the is usually English.  In China they learn several languages including English.  In most European countries English is also a requirement.  In fact, the US goes to much less effort than other countries do.  Even in Latin America in public school English is at least a minimal requirement.



It is also the same in Europe, but traveling in Europe, if you addressed a person in their native language they would not for the most part, talk to you.  However, we live in America, and in America we speak english and anyone entering this country should have atleast a working knowledge of english.


----------



## Xchel

Coolbreeze, and the same can be said for a lot of Americans traveling abroad..for some wierd reason not only do they insist that everyone speak perfect American English they also want them to do the same when they visit other countries and get offended when there is no one who speaks perfect English.  I have watched it in action right here in San Pedro Sula.  The gentlemen said to the guy who was a taxi driver*remember taxi drivers aren't exactly educated folks* I need a taxi driver that speaks English...no no ingles señor and the guy was ticked that he couldn't find someone who could court to his need.  He turned and looked at me and said they need to learn English...I looked back at him flatly in my southern accent and said, no, you need to learn Spanish.  It was one of those times that I took advantage of this learn English crap...people don't learn English overnight just like you would not learn Spanish overnight and never in your lifetime will you likely learn perfect Spanish if you were to try.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Unkotare said:


> And someone in Honduras can't have an opinion about that? How fucking stupid are you?



They can have an opinion, but their opinion is completely irrelevant.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare, yes, which makes the language DIFFERENT, Japanese is a bit different than English.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All languages are different. What you described is most certainly NOT "the three different kinds of Japanese," and Japanese students are NOT "required to learn five languages."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you clear on that now?
Click to expand...



Hello? xchel? Hello?


----------



## Unkotare

Uncensored2008 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> And someone in Honduras can't have an opinion about that? How fucking stupid are you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They can have an opinion, but their opinion is completely irrelevant.
Click to expand...




If you went to Honduras on vacation, would all of your opinions become irrelevant?


----------



## Xchel

Uncensored2008 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> And someone in Honduras can't have an opinion about that? How fucking stupid are you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They can have an opinion, but their opinion is completely irrelevant.
Click to expand...


How is my opinion irrelevant when I can vote in the US and pay taxes there as well? Sorry, but you could not be more wrong.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Xchel said:


> If you live in America? Or if you live in the USA? America is a continent, the USA is the country in the Americas.



Nope.

There are two continents with "America" in their name, North America and South America.

The United States of America is commonly referred to as "America," it is the only nation on the planet to be termed "America." "Americans" are citizens of the United States, no other country  has peoples termed "Americans."

Americans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> While it will better your future it should not be a law...no one should be forced to speak anything they don't want to.



I realize that you're stupid, but official status doesn't force anyone to speak anything, it simply designates that all official business will be conducted in said language.


----------



## Xchel

Uncensored2008 said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you live in America? Or if you live in the USA? America is a continent, the USA is the country in the Americas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> There are two continents with "America" in their name, North America and South America.
> 
> The United States of America is commonly referred to as "America," it is the only nation on the planet to be termed "America." "Americans" are citizens of the United States, no other country  has peoples termed "Americans."
> 
> Americans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While it will better your future it should not be a law...no one should be forced to speak anything they don't want to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I realize that you're stupid, but official status doesn't force anyone to speak anything, it simply designates that all official business will be conducted in said language.
Click to expand...


Actually usually only folks inside the US refer to it as America and not everyone there either.  Anyone with a miniscule amount of knowledge realizes the difference in USA and America... Don't site Wiki that is one of the worst citations you can pick on the net.  It is also illegal to dictate what language business is conducted in official or not...that has already been decided by the US supreme court which is why Social security provides translated documents as well as voter ballots being printed in other languages.


----------



## Uncensored2008

rightwinger said:


> And that's the way it is. Most immigrants do learn English



So you've never been to California or Arizona, huh?



> and it is required for citizenship.



I'm sure 25 million illegals are real concerned with that provision. 

What it ISN'T required for is AFDC, SSI, Food Stamps, WIC, voting, property ownership, court actions or getting a high school diploma.



> However, many immigrants, like many Americans have difficulty in learning another language. Penalizing people and denying them access to Govt assistance that they pay taxes for is just plain vindictive.
> We have gone over 200 years without making English the official language. There is no reason to do so now



For the vast majority of that period, adoption of English was axiomatic. It no longer is. You of the left revel at the balkaniztion of the nation, the weaker and more divisive the nation, the happier you are. Some of us have a different goal.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Unkotare said:


> You are insanely incorrect.
> 
> 
> There is only one 'form' of Japanese (leaving aside dialects). You need to speak to your friend again because you have been badly misinformed.



Furthermore, the attitude of the Japanese toward Cantonese and Mandarin is not what one would call "positive." (Language of the dogs is a common phrase.)


----------



## Uncensored2008

rightwinger said:


> Making English the official language does not mean that everyone will have to speak english. The woman in line behind you in the supermarket can still yell at her kids in Spanish. The guy at the gas station can still speak Hindu to his worker. We are a multicultural society and like it or not, you will still be exposed to other languages



Then what is the problem?



> All it means is that Government publications and websites cannot be presented in other languages.



Then what is the problem?



> It means that the government cannot communicate with the people in a language they understand. It means that more people will not receive critical information.



Let me google that for you


----------



## Uncensored2008

Unkotare said:


> If you went to Honduras on vacation, would all of your opinions become irrelevant?



My opinions on their national laws?

Absolutely.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Xchel said:


> How is my opinion irrelevant when I can vote in the US and pay taxes there as well? Sorry, but you could not be more wrong.



The opinions of those speaking of US Federal law are relevant only for those who are US citizens.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Xchel said:


> Actually usually only folks inside the US refer to it as America and not everyone there either.



Utter bullshit, and idiotic.

All of Europe and Asia speak of Americans with the specific meaning of the USA.



> Anyone with a miniscule amount of knowledge realizes the difference in USA and America... Don't site Wiki that is one of the worst citations you can pick on the net.




Besides, you'll hold your breath until you turn blue.



> It is also illegal to dictate what language business is conducted in official or not...that has already been decided by the US supreme court which is why Social security



Two factors, an amendment nullifies any court dictates. Secondly, the SCOTUS currently has five constitutionalists on it. The radical left court of prior eras is over. Obama appointed an idiot and an open Marxist to the court, but they replaced leftists. Sotomayor lowered the aggregate IQ of the court by 40%, but she didn't alter the balance. Kagan might have Che posters in her office, but again, she didn't alter the balance.



> provides translated documents as well as voter ballots being printed in other languages.



Time for that nonsense to stop.


----------



## Xchel

Uncensored2008 said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is my opinion irrelevant when I can vote in the US and pay taxes there as well? Sorry, but you could not be more wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The opinions of those speaking of US Federal law are relevant only for those who are US citizens.
Click to expand...


so are you saying there are no Us citizens living abroad? I am a Us citizen living in Honduras..that is why the discussion came up about someone who is in Honduras having an opinion...you say they are relevant for Us citizens only...well I guess you sort of stepped on your own foot there.


----------



## Xchel

> provides translated documents as well as voter ballots being printed in other languages.



Time for that nonsense to stop.[/QUOTE]

yeah that pesky constitution never mattered anyway did it?


----------



## Uncensored2008

Xchel said:


> so are you saying there are no Us citizens living abroad?



US citizens living abroad are Americans. If you are Honduran, then you are a citizen of Honduras.



> I am a Us citizen living in Honduras..that is why the discussion came up about someone who is in Honduras having an opinion...you say they are relevant for Us citizens only...well I guess you sort of stepped on your own foot there.



Do you think California and Arizona rightfully belong to Mexico?


----------



## Uncensored2008

Xchel said:


> yeah that pesky constitution never mattered anyway did it?



You've obviously never seen, much less read the US Constitution.


----------



## Xchel

Uncensored2008 said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah that pesky constitution never mattered anyway did it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've obviously never seen, much less read the US Constitution.
Click to expand...


and you obviously do not know what you are talking about.  I have most certainly read it and in fact MEMORIZED it when I was a teenager.  English only ballots would violate equal protection rights and the voting rights of non English speaking US citizens...such as Puerto Ricans, Native Americans, and elderly naturalized citizens who had no English requirement to become a citizen.  Sit down and take the time to read Section 203 of the Voting Rights Act of 1965


----------



## NGSamson

Xchel said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah that pesky constitution never mattered anyway did it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've obviously never seen, much less read the US Constitution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and you obviously do not know what you are talking about.  I have most certainly read it and in fact MEMORIZED it when I was a teenager.  English only ballots would violate equal protection rights and the voting rights of non English speaking US citizens...such as Puerto Ricans, Native Americans, and elderly naturalized citizens who had no English requirement to become a citizen.  Sit down and take the time to read Section 203 of the Voting Rights Act of 1965
Click to expand...



I dont know many Puerto Ricans who dont speak English. Dont know many people from Guam who dont either.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Xchel said:


> and you obviously do not know what you are talking about.  I have most certainly read it and in fact MEMORIZED it when I was a teenager.



Sure you did....

{Section. 2.

Clause 1: The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature.

Clause 2: No Person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the Age of twenty five Years, and been seven Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State in which he shall be chosen.

Clause 3: Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. (See Note 2) The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct. The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand, but each State shall have at Least one Representative; and until such enumeration shall be made, the State of New Hampshire shall be entitled to chuse three, Massachusetts eight, Rhode-Island and Providence Plantations one, Connecticut five, New-York six, New Jersey four, Pennsylvania eight, Delaware one, Maryland six, Virginia ten, North Carolina five, South Carolina five, and Georgia three.

Clause 4: When vacancies happen in the Representation from any State, the Executive Authority thereof shall issue Writs of Election to fill such Vacancies.

Clause 5: The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment. }

Well damn, nothing there about printing in foreign languages...



> English only ballots would violate equal protection rights and the voting rights of non English speaking US citizens...such as Puerto Ricans, Native Americans, and elderly naturalized citizens who had no English requirement to become a citizen.  Sit down and take the time to read Section 203 of the Voting Rights Act of 1965



Bullshit.

{Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. }

Try again, sparky.


----------



## Xchel

. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. }

what part of no law shall abridge the priviledges or immunities of citizens did you not understand?

Also, what you copied and pasted is not the entire constitution ...so look in the mirror next time when you call someone sparky.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Xchel said:


> . No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. }
> 
> what part of no law shall abridge the priviledges or immunities of citizens did you not understand?



What privilege do you see abridged by not providing ballots in Tagalog or Swahili?

For well over a hundred years, the courts at all levels held that equal protection confers that the federal government may not overtly impugn the rights of citizens. Activists over the last 30 years have attempted to alter the concept to that of passive and incidental acts. Under the current climate, I don't see the radical change in jurisprudence occurring.

Try again, Sparky.


----------



## Unkotare

Uncensored2008 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are insanely incorrect.
> 
> 
> There is only one 'form' of Japanese (leaving aside dialects). You need to speak to your friend again because you have been badly misinformed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Furthermore, the attitude of the Japanese toward Cantonese and Mandarin is not what one would call "positive." (Language of the dogs is a common phrase.)
Click to expand...



No, it is not a common phrase, and a great many Japanese people study Chinese. Don't try to project your own issues.


----------



## Unkotare

Uncensored2008 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you went to Honduras on vacation, would all of your opinions become irrelevant?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My opinions on their national laws?
> 
> Absolutely.
Click to expand...


No, moron, pay attention. Your opinions on OUR national laws.


----------



## Xchel

What privilege do you see abridged by not providing ballots in Tagalog or Swahili?

If that US citizen speaks Tagalog or Swahili and cannot read Engish, perhaps they speak it but cannot read it because they came to the US as a 50 year old then it abridges their right to vote.


----------



## NGSamson

Tagalog or Swahili ? Those are pretty obscure languages, with the first having different dialects. If either were ones native tongue, and they are here, chances are they speak English.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Unkotare said:


> No, moron, pay attention. Your opinions on OUR national laws.



So, were you born retarded, or did you suffer severe head trauma?


----------



## Xchel

NGSamson said:


> Tagalog or Swahili ? Those are pretty obscure languages, with the first having different dialects. If either were ones native tongue, and they are here, chances are they speak English.



yes, they are pretty obscure languages and chances are they do speak English, but speaking English and actually reading English are two different things.


----------



## Unkotare

Uncensored2008 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, moron, pay attention. Your opinions on OUR national laws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, were you born retarded, or did you suffer severe head trauma?
Click to expand...




That was a very poor dodge.


----------



## BDBoop

Xchel said:


> Coolbreeze, and the same can be said for a lot of Americans traveling abroad..for some wierd reason not only do they insist that everyone speak perfect American English they also want them to do the same when they visit other countries and get offended when there is no one who speaks perfect English.  I have watched it in action right here in San Pedro Sula.  The gentlemen said to the guy who was a taxi driver*remember taxi drivers aren't exactly educated folks* I need a taxi driver that speaks English...no no ingles señor and the guy was ticked that he couldn't find someone who could court to his need.  He turned and looked at me and said they need to learn English...I looked back at him flatly in my southern accent and said, no, you need to learn Spanish.  It was one of those times that I took advantage of this learn English crap...people don't learn English overnight just like you would not learn Spanish overnight and* never in your lifetime will you likely learn perfect Spanish if you were to try.*



Oh, bullshit.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Xchel said:


> If that US citizen speaks Tagalog or Swahili and cannot read Engish, perhaps they speak it but cannot read it because they came to the US as a 50 year old then it abridges their right to vote.



No, it does not.

The federal government is restrained from passing laws with overtly impugn rights. Passive consequence is not and cannot by the purvey of statute.

If you get drunk and crash your car into a telephone poll on the day of an election, you will not be able to vote. This does not create an onus for the federal government to remove all telephone polls, though. It is your responsibility to comply with the parameters necessary for voting. It is not the responsibility of the government to remove all obstacles.


----------



## Xchel

BDBoop said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coolbreeze, and the same can be said for a lot of Americans traveling abroad..for some wierd reason not only do they insist that everyone speak perfect American English they also want them to do the same when they visit other countries and get offended when there is no one who speaks perfect English.  I have watched it in action right here in San Pedro Sula.  The gentlemen said to the guy who was a taxi driver*remember taxi drivers aren't exactly educated folks* I need a taxi driver that speaks English...no no ingles señor and the guy was ticked that he couldn't find someone who could court to his need.  He turned and looked at me and said they need to learn English...I looked back at him flatly in my southern accent and said, no, you need to learn Spanish.  It was one of those times that I took advantage of this learn English crap...people don't learn English overnight just like you would not learn Spanish overnight and* never in your lifetime will you likely learn perfect Spanish if you were to try.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, bullshit.
Click to expand...


actually no not bullshit...there is an entire community of folks here that live in what seems a small area..all Americans and very few of them actually speak Spanish...and this is a Spanish speaking country.


----------



## Uncensored2008

NGSamson said:


> Tagalog or Swahili ? Those are pretty obscure languages, with the first having different dialects. If either were ones native tongue, and they are here, chances are they speak English.



All official business of the United States Government should be conducted exclusively in English.

End of story.


----------



## Xchel

and your opinion has no basis in law..what you think should be done is a violation of the constitution.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Unkotare said:


> That was a very poor dodge.



Nothing there to dodge, son. Your post was retarded.


----------



## Unkotare

Keep ducking, duck.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Unkotare said:


> Keep ducking, duck.



Ah, so you are a troll.

Got it.


----------



## Unkotare

Ah, so you are still ducking. Got it.


----------



## NGSamson

Xchel said:


> NGSamson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tagalog or Swahili ? Those are pretty obscure languages, with the first having different dialects. If either were ones native tongue, and they are here, chances are they speak English.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes, they are pretty obscure languages and chances are they do speak English, but speaking English and actually reading English are two different things.
Click to expand...


It took my step dad about 12 years of living and working here to become a citizen. I dont know the whole process, but the powers that be made sure he had an understanding of basic English. He never had to have a ballot in any language other then English. I work with a guy who got amnesty in the 80's. He never needed a ballot in any language other then English. We speak English. If an individual wants to live here they should to. Its not unreasonable.


----------



## Uncensored2008

NGSamson said:


> It took my step dad about 12 years of living and working here to become a citizen. I dont know the whole process, but the powers that be made sure he had an understanding of basic English. He never had to have a ballot in any language other then English. I work with a guy who got amnesty in the 80's. He never needed a ballot in any language other then English. We speak English. If an individual wants to live here they should to. Its not unreasonable.



It depends on your goal.

If you seek a civil and cohesive society, what you say is true.

For those like RW, the goal is anything but a cohesive society. The revolution isn't going to occur with everyone rowing the boat in the same direction.


----------



## hortysir

Xchel said:


> We desperately need to go back to our old immigration system. Our immigration system nowadays is seriously screwed up........
> _I agreed up to this point but...._
> 
> .We must go back to immigrants being thoroughly checked out before being allowed to enter.
> _immigrants weren't thoroughly checked previously they were simply checked for diseases_
> 
> They need to have a sponsor who is fully responsible for the immigrant, and held accountable along with the immigtant for their actions.
> _A person is biographically responisble for the person they sponser in immigration.  Not everyone requires a sponser though it depends on how you immigrate.  You can't hold a person responsible for someone else's actions, but financially you can and they are held financially responsible._
> 
> They must demonstrate that they have money in their pocket to survive, and will not be immediately applying to suck off the system. No money, no entrance. They need to be fully versed in English before becoming a citizen......
> 
> _all of these things are already requirements.  You don't know much about our current immigration requirements do you? They don't require you to be fully versed, but that would be ridiculous, most natural born citizens aren't fully versed in English._
> 
> And of course, CLOSE OFF THAT SOUTHERN BORDER, AND START CHECKING OUT EVERYBODY WHO COMES ACROSS IT...It is a major disaster that is just waiting to happen.
> 
> *Why just the southern border?*



Why, after more than 100 posts, can't you learn how to operate the QUOTE function?


----------



## Xchel

I have been posting for two days...any more unimportant crap to complain about?


----------



## Moonglow

Xchel said:


> I have been posting for two days...any more unimportant crap to complain about?



Do u pronounce your name like, zchel?


----------



## Ringel05

Xchel said:


> I have been posting for two days...*any more unimportant crap to complain about?*



I'll leave that one alone........ but man is it hard.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Moonglow said:


> Do u pronounce your name like, zchel?



No matter how she pronounces it, she can at least spell three letter words, putting her ahead of you.


----------



## hortysir

Xchel said:


> _*I have been posting for two days*_...any more unimportant crap to complain about?



Carrying on about your education and apparent superior intellect.

Just figured with all that ejoomikayshun you'd be able to make it more clear who the hell you're talking to, s'all




And 2 days?
120+ posts?

60+ per day????

CoonHog is that you???


----------



## Xchel

Moonglow said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been posting for two days...any more unimportant crap to complain about?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do u pronounce your name like, zchel?
Click to expand...


No, it is actually Ixchel.


----------



## Xchel

I don't know or really care who Coonhog is..but right now I have some extra time on my hands and came over from another board...like Is aid..the topic is what we should be discussing that is what is important..got something to complain about with my posts take it to the appropriate place and stop trying to derail the thread.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Xchel said:


> I don't know or really care who Coonhog is..but right now I have some extra time on my hands and came over from another board...like Is aid..the topic is what we should be discussing that is what is important..got something to complain about with my posts take it to the appropriate place and stop trying to derail the thread.



You never answered earlier, do you think that California and Arizona rightfully belong to Mexico, and should be returned?


----------



## Xchel

Uncensored2008 said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know or really care who Coonhog is..but right now I have some extra time on my hands and came over from another board...like Is aid..the topic is what we should be discussing that is what is important..got something to complain about with my posts take it to the appropriate place and stop trying to derail the thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You never answered earlier, do you think that California and Arizona rightfully belong to Mexico, and should be returned?
Click to expand...


No, why would I think that? I think that too much time has passed.  Do I think the Mexican American war is a shameful part of our past? Yes, but do I think that the Southwest belongs to or should be returned? No.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Xchel said:


> No, why would I think that?



It's the position of MEchA and La Raza, the Atzlan factions.

I just wondered how wacky you are.



> I think that too much time has passed.  Do I think the Mexican American war is a shameful part of our past? Yes, but do I think that the Southwest belongs to or should be returned? No.



Shameful in what way? Is the uprising in Libya also shameful? Do people have the right to cast of rulers they oppose?


----------



## Foxfyre

I am not going to waste my time with those who don't believe in language - borders - culture as important for the United States to retain and protect.  I just hope and pray they remain in a small minority.

The basics of current Immigration policy:

*Eligibility Requirements*

If you are a green card holder of at least 5 years, you must meet the following requirements in order to apply for naturalization:



> Be 18 or older
> 
> Be a green card holder for at least 5 years immediately preceding the date of filing the Form N-400, Application for Naturalization
> 
> Have lived within the state, or USCIS district with jurisdiction over the applicants place of residence, for at least 3 months prior to the date of filing the application
> 
> Have continuous residence in the United States as a green card holder for at least 5 years immediately preceding the date of the filing the application
> 
> Be physically present in the United States for at least 30 months out of the 5 years immediately preceding the date of filing the application
> 
> Reside continuously within the United States from the date of application for naturalization up to the time of naturalization
> 
> Be able to read, write, and speak English and have knowledge and an understanding of U.S. history and government (civics).
> 
> Be a person of good moral character, attached to the principles of the Constitution of the United States, and well disposed to the good order and happiness of the United States during  all relevant periods under the law
> USCIS - Path to U.S. Citizenship



The advantage of making English the official language of government and business is that immigrants will make the effort to master the language well enough to communicate and will see to it that their children are sufficiently fluent in English to attend public schools.  This gives the immigrants a huge advantage in being able to realize the American dream.

It eliminates mega millions in costs to the federal and state government when they do not need to provide everything in more than one language.  (It also ends discrimination against other ethnic groups when Spanish is favored as a second language but those who speak Japanese, Portuguese, Chinese etc. are not equally accommodated.)

It releases huge amounts of school funding to be focused on educating all the kids instead of accommodating kids who can't speak English.

In West Texas our church sponsored a Cuban family who was fleeing Fidel Castro's brutal regime.  The father had been a political prisoner.  He had only half of his left foot - when he had an injury and gangrene deveoped, his captors solved it by whacking off half the foot with an ax.  No anesthetic was given prior to that procedure.  The other stories the family brought were equally horrendous.

So with my Santa Fe street Spanish and our pastor's imperfect French, we were able to communicate sufficiently for the father to become the church janitor.  It was a stop gap job until he could learn the language and satisfy requirement to apply for citizenship.  We located a Mexican family who could work with all the new family in English instruction.  And no, there were no government programs providing such instruction.

Within six months the family had learned enough English for the kids to enroll in school, for mom to be able to accept part time work, and the dad was hired in middle management in a small manufacturing plant until he could qualify to get his teaching certificate.  (He had been a teacher in Cuba.)

A happy success story.  Those people arrived with nothing and within a couple of years that family had worked themselves squarely into the middle class.  With NO government help I might add.  It did take the father about four years to get that teaching certificate.  When I last saw him and the Mrs. about 20 years ago, they barely spoke with an accent.  Remarkable people.


----------



## Xchel

Uncensored2008 said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, why would I think that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the position of MEchA and La Raza, the Atzlan factions.
> 
> I just wondered how wacky you are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think that too much time has passed.  Do I think the Mexican American war is a shameful part of our past? Yes, but do I think that the Southwest belongs to or should be returned? No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shameful in what way? Is the uprising in Libya also shameful? Do people have the right to cast of rulers they oppose?
Click to expand...


It is shameful because we engaged in manifest destiny it was not about rising up against rulers it was about expanding beyond intended territories and taking land that did not belong to us...except we claimed it was our god given right...we didn't get as much as we wanted though..manifest destiny was supposed to include the entire continent.

I don't belong to Mecha or La Raza or any other group for that matter.


----------



## BDBoop

Xchel said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coolbreeze, and the same can be said for a lot of Americans traveling abroad..for some wierd reason not only do they insist that everyone speak perfect American English they also want them to do the same when they visit other countries and get offended when there is no one who speaks perfect English.  I have watched it in action right here in San Pedro Sula.  The gentlemen said to the guy who was a taxi driver*remember taxi drivers aren't exactly educated folks* I need a taxi driver that speaks English...no no ingles señor and the guy was ticked that he couldn't find someone who could court to his need.  He turned and looked at me and said they need to learn English...I looked back at him flatly in my southern accent and said, no, you need to learn Spanish.  It was one of those times that I took advantage of this learn English crap...people don't learn English overnight just like you would not learn Spanish overnight and* never in your lifetime will you likely learn perfect Spanish if you were to try.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> actually no not bullshit...there is an entire community of folks here that live in what seems a small area..all Americans and very few of them actually speak Spanish...and this is a Spanish speaking country.
Click to expand...


Yes, bullshit. That's not what you said, you said that even if a person were to try, they will likely never speak perfect Spanish, not even over the course of a lifetime.

It would take a special kind of stupid to not master Spanish over the course of a lifetime, attempting to learn.


----------



## Xchel

Nice story Fox, but not all people are as fortunate to be able to pick up the language as well...and it takes a tremendous amount of time not just something that occurs which means there has to be translation for those who are still starting out.  I know people who have learned English in 2 years and some who have been in the US and actually made effort and still do not speak English well enough to be understood in 15 years time.  My STBX has been in the US for 19 years, his accent is horrible.  He speaks and understands English, but he cannot write very well in English.  He spent most of his time working from sunup to sundown and picked English up at work.  Someone with access to school as much as the person in your example is invariably going to learn faster than someone who works 14 hours or more a day in a job where they are not exposed to people who can teach them English.

I have a point of contention with our immigration laws when it comes to Cubans...yes, they escaped Fidel Castro...we have Mexicans running like hell from the Zetas and Central Americans too...and they are far more brutal than Castro has been.


----------



## Xchel

BDBoop said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> actually no not bullshit...there is an entire community of folks here that live in what seems a small area..all Americans and very few of them actually speak Spanish...and this is a Spanish speaking country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, bullshit. That's not what you said, you said that even if a person were to try, they will likely never speak perfect Spanish, not even over the course of a lifetime.
> 
> It would take a special kind of stupid to not master Spanish over the course of a lifetime, attempting to learn.
Click to expand...


For an adult to learn perfect regional Spanish, in say Honduras, minus the accent is not going to happen.  I use Honduras because the Spanish here is loaded with idioms and very difficult for non Spanish speakers to pick up and it is fairly difficult for people who speak Spanish to pick up as well if they are not from here...

We say things like 

hasta las queques, que pijiada le dio, deja de paja, me debe pisto, vaya jodido, and so forth...o and words like guirro, cipote, chiuin, all words you won't find in your dictionary.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Xchel said:


> It is shameful because we engaged in manifest destiny it was not about rising up against rulers it was about expanding beyond intended territories and taking land that did not belong to us...



Manifest destiny had nothing to do with the Mexican American war. (Say, "American?" Damn...)

Manifest destiny was Polk's push Westward. the Mexican American war was sparked by the refusal of Mexico to recognize the independence of Texas, who had indeed risen up against their Mexican rulers. Mexico declared war on the USA, not vice versa. Because it was a stupid act by a nation in a defacto civil war, Mexico fared poorly. in addition, Mexico was already deeply in debt to the USA due to borrowing to fund the aforementioned civil war. Mexico sold California and New Mexico for the price of those debts.

Drop the leftist bullshit and learn some history.



> except we claimed it was our god given right...we didn't get as much as we wanted though..manifest destiny was supposed to include the entire continent.
> 
> I don't belong to Mecha or La Raza or any other group for that matter.


----------



## Xchel

Uncensored2008 said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is shameful because we engaged in manifest destiny it was not about rising up against rulers it was about expanding beyond intended territories and taking land that did not belong to us...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manifest destiny had nothing to do with the Mexican American war. (Say, "American?" Damn...)
> 
> Manifest destiny was Polk's push Westward. the Mexican American war was sparked by the refusal of Mexico to recognize the independence of Texas, who had indeed risen up against their Mexican rulers. Mexico declared war on the USA, not vice versa. Because it was a stupid act by a nation in a defacto civil war, Mexico fared poorly. in addition, Mexico was already deeply in debt to the USA due to borrowing to fund the aforementioned civil war. Mexico sold California and New Mexico for the price of those debts.
> 
> Drop the leftist bullshit and learn some history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> except we claimed it was our god given right...we didn't get as much as we wanted though..manifest destiny was supposed to include the entire continent.
> 
> I don't belong to Mecha or La Raza or any other group for that matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


leftist bs? Oh whatever, I am hardly a leftist.  Now that is out of the way...you perhaps are the one who should learn some history since the Mexican American war was the first conflict driven by the idea of Manifest Destiny....figured you would know that before saying something like you just did...but clearly you did not.
The History Guy: The U.S.-Mexican War (1846-1848)

In fact, Polk was the president when we became involved in the conflict..but nah he didn't have anything to do with it according to you....


----------



## BDBoop

Xchel said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> actually no not bullshit...there is an entire community of folks here that live in what seems a small area..all Americans and very few of them actually speak Spanish...and this is a Spanish speaking country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, bullshit. That's not what you said, you said that even if a person were to try, they will likely never speak perfect Spanish, not even over the course of a lifetime.
> 
> It would take a special kind of stupid to not master Spanish over the course of a lifetime, attempting to learn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For an adult to learn perfect regional Spanish, in say Honduras, minus the accent is not going to happen.  I use Honduras because the Spanish here is loaded with idioms and very difficult for non Spanish speakers to pick up and it is fairly difficult for people who speak Spanish to pick up as well if they are not from here...
> 
> We say things like
> 
> hasta las queques, que pijiada le dio, deja de paja, me debe pisto, vaya jodido, and so forth...o and words like guirro, cipote, chiuin, all words you won't find in your dictionary.
Click to expand...


Okay. You just keep moving those goal posts there, sunshine. I do believe we're done here.


----------



## Foxfyre

Xchel said:


> Nice story Fox, but not all people are as fortunate to be able to pick up the language as well...and it takes a tremendous amount of time not just something that occurs which means there has to be translation for those who are still starting out.  I know people who have learned English in 2 years and some who have been in the US and actually made effort and still do not speak English well enough to be understood in 15 years time.  My STBX has been in the US for 19 years, his accent is horrible.  He speaks and understands English, but he cannot write very well in English.  He spent most of his time working from sunup to sundown and picked English up at work.  Someone with access to school as much as the person in your example is invariably going to learn faster than someone who works 14 hours or more a day in a job where they are not exposed to people who can teach them English.
> 
> I have a point of contention with our immigration laws when it comes to Cubans...yes, they escaped Fidel Castro...we have Mexicans running like hell from the Zetas and Central Americans too...and they are far more brutal than Castro has been.



People incapable of learning our language should probably stay in their home countries.   There are safer areas of their home countries whether in South America or Mexico for people to go until they can qualify for a green card here if they want to come here.  I have friends in Brazil, Peru, Argentina and Mexico.  None have experienced anything comparable to what Castro put his people through.



> Contrary to Castros propaganda - repeated as Gospel by the U.S. media, which had kept the American people ignorant of the struggle of the Cuban people to get rid of his regime - there were resistance groups in the cities and rebel groups in the countryside as close as 36 kilometers to Havana, and extending to other provinces.
> 
> According to conservative estimates there were 10,000 rebels across the island (much more than the some 3500 that fought against Batista). While Batistas army was 40,000 men, Castro needed an army of more than 250,000 men to fight them. Castro's revolution was bloody from the beginning.
> 
> In January 1960, a group of peasants - frustrated by the abuses of the communist-leaning Castro revolution - went into the Escambray Mountains in the first open revolt against the regime. Soon the peasant rebels numbered in the hundreds and later people from all walks of life joined them resulting in a total of about 3500.
> 
> Following the Hitler and Stalin models, Castro, maligning the peasants as "bandits," ordered in 1961 the massive relocation of thousands of them from the Escambray area, with the objective of cutting off the increasing number of rebels, their support, contacts and food supply. (This relocation-of-peasants technique was also followed by the Castro-supported communist Sandinistas in Nicaragua in the 1980s to crush a similar opposition uprising.)
> 
> Thousands of families were forcibly evicted from the Escambray Mountains at gunpoint from their properties. As during the times of Hitler and Stalin, the peasants were herded into trains where families were separated and banished. The men were sent to prisons and forced labor camps throughout Cuba. Women and children were housed in expropriated houses converted into detention centers in far away cities.
> 
> The communist technique was to hold these families incommunicado from their relatives in distant areas of the island. When their children were six years old, they were removed from their mothers and interned in communist indoctrination schools.
> 
> For years the men were subjected to abusive and inhumane treatment. Using them for forced labor, the closed towns of Ramon Lopez Pena, Sandino, Briones Montoto, Miraflores, Imias, Mamamantuabo and Velaco were built in the provinces of Pinar del Rio, Matanzas and Camaguey.
> 
> Eventually, the family members from throughout Cuba were relocated to these closed towns. They were ordered never to return to their original land. These towns were guarded concentration camps off limits to the rest of the population. This operation lasted until 1972, but these peasants have never been allowed to leave their assigned towns. Today, four decades later, they are still being treated as prisoners and hostages of Castro's regime.
> 
> Castros genocide war following a scorched-earth technique of encircling the rebels was concluded in 1965, after killing a total of 2236, according to Dr. Armando Lagos research for an upcoming book. From this total, Dr. Lago says, 1415 were executed on sight without trial. Castros policy was to execute all prisoners by shooting or hanging after being viciously tortured.
> FORTY THREE YEAR STRUGGLE AGAINST CASTRO



Anyone of reasonable intelligence, and we really don't want anybody without reasonable intelligence to come here, can master a language sufficiently to communicate within six months or less if they are motivated and immersed in the process.  I've personally helped and witnessed hundreds do it.


----------



## Xchel

Anyone of reasonable intelligence, and we really don't want anybody without reasonable intelligence to come here, can master a language sufficiently to communicate within six months or less if they are motivated and immersed in the process.  I've personally helped and witnessed hundreds do it.[/QUOTE]

Have you witnessed the murders of 40,000 people in Mexico alone by the Zetas and other Cartels? Some of them include torture and murders of entire families as well as being burned to death in a casino recently.  I have personally witnessed a lot of this myself..including the murder of 2 people in my neighborhood because they dared talk to authorities.

A person who is even near genius level will not master any foreign language in six months if they are over 11 years old.  Master and become semi communicative are two entirely different things.


----------



## Againsheila

Xchel said:


> The three types of Japanese are kanji, hiragana, and katakana...there are dozens of dialects of Japanese, not just three.



Those are the written languages.  To my knowledge there is only one spoken language in Japan.  

Another written language is Rumanji...which is basically our alphabet spelling their words.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Xchel said:


> leftist bs? Oh whatever, I am hardly a leftist.



Sure..



> Now that is out of the way...you perhaps are the one who should learn some history since the Mexican American war was the first conflict driven by the idea of Manifest Destiny....



Nope.

Manifest destiny was the concept that the USA was destined to occupy the land from coast to coast. It was the Westward push. The Mexican American war was incidental to the concept, which predated by decades, going back to John Sullivan and even Andrew Jackson.

Polk was a Democrat, and as such preached the Democrats platform of manifest destiny, but his eye was on British held Oregon. The push was West, not South.



> figured you would know that before saying something like you just did...but clearly you did not.
> The History Guy: The U.S.-Mexican War (1846-1848)
> 
> In fact, Polk was the president when we became involved in the conflict..but nah he didn't have anything to do with it according to you....



The Texas revolt sparked the Mexican American war. The refusal to recognize the independence of Texas was the flame, Mexico declaring war when the Polk administration annexed Texas in 1845 was the maelstrom. HAD Mexico not reacted to Texas joining the Union, there would never have been a war. California still would have been sold, Mexico was desperate, but who knows, New Mexico and Arizona might STILL be Mexican territory. Valentín Gómez Farías was an idiot to declare a war he had no ability to fight. Taking on Texas was a possibility, but Mexico was no match for the US military. It was only the failure of the Mexican government that led to such a stupid move.


----------



## Foxfyre

Those sufficiently motivated seem to manage to do it Xichel.  And I'm not going to get into a semantics debate with you.  I have quite a bit of hands on experience working with immigrants who were on a path to citizenship and I know what they ALL were able to accomplish.  My brother-in-law's family escaped Mussolini's Italy just as WWII was breaking out.  They arrived on Ellis Island with little more than the clothes on their back and the hope of a job in the coal mines of Southern Colorado and Northern New Mexico.  Within six months they were ALL reading and speaking sufficient English to get by which was required to be able to work in the mines and to get the kids into New Mexico schools.

The senseless deaths in Mexico are indeed in the tens of thousands and are indefensible though most have been skirmishes between the druglords and government forces.  It is not the government however who is ordering such abuses but it comes from the sociopathic druglords themselves coupled with corruption within the Mexican military and law enforcement. When such deaths were occuring in Lybia, the U.N. intervened while turning a blind eye to Syria and other places where people were being equally brutalized.  But because the violence does not originate from the Mexican head of state, there is no justification to intervene I guess.

But none of that has anything to do with U.S. immigration policy.  I think you are being excessively naive and dismissive re what motivated people can accomplish when the system requires that of them.


----------



## Xchel

aha any more lies you want to tell us Fox? If they left Italy in six months they weren't speaking perfect English not all of them you can believe that day dream the rest of us know it is a lie.

excessively naive? I live in a country where people pay to go to bilingual schools in order to learn English and pay big bucks..none of them learn in six months..none! 

Here are some quick facts for you

In one study, Thomas & Collier researched a group of Asian and Hispanic students from an affluent suburban school district receiving 1-3 hours second language support per day in a well-regarded ESL program . These students were generally exited from ESL in the first two years. All of the students researched were at or above grade level in native language literacy. Here are the results for students in this study.

*Those students who were between 8-11 years old and had 2-3 years of native language education took 5-7 years to test at grade level in English.* These were the lucky ones.
Students with little or no formal schooling who arrived before the age of eight, took 7-10 years to reach grade level norms in English language literacy.
Students who were below grade level in native language literacy also took 7-10 years to reach the 50th percentile. Many of these students never reached grade level norms.
This data holds true regardless of the home language, country of origin, and socioeconomic status. (Thomas & Collier, 1997).
http://www.everythingesl.net/inservices/_long_does_take_learn_english_55843.php


----------



## Xchel

In case you forget, Texas was a state of Mexico.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Xchel said:


> In case you forget, Texas was a state of Mexico.



That changed about 1836.


----------



## Foxfyre

Xchel said:


> aha any more lies you want to tell us Fox? If they left Italy in six months they weren't speaking perfect English not all of them you can believe that day dream the rest of us know it is a lie.
> 
> excessively naive? I live in a country where people pay to go to bilingual schools in order to learn English and pay big bucks..none of them learn in six months..none!
> 
> Here are some quick facts for you
> 
> In one study, Thomas & Collier researched a group of Asian and Hispanic students from an affluent suburban school district receiving 1-3 hours second language support per day in a well-regarded ESL program . These students were generally exited from ESL in the first two years. All of the students researched were at or above grade level in native language literacy. Here are the results for students in this study.
> 
> *Those students who were between 8-11 years old and had 2-3 years of native language education took 5-7 years to test at grade level in English.* These were the lucky ones.
> Students with little or no formal schooling who arrived before the age of eight, took 7-10 years to reach grade level norms in English language literacy.
> Students who were below grade level in native language literacy also took 7-10 years to reach the 50th percentile. Many of these students never reached grade level norms.
> This data holds true regardless of the home language, country of origin, and socioeconomic status. (Thomas & Collier, 1997).
> How long does it take to learn English?



My brother-in-laws family were not subjected to government schools to learn English which do perform abysmally worse than the old system.  Not only for immigrant childeren but for our native born ones.  And your own reading comprehension seems to need some work as you have several times added words like 'perfect' to what I have actually said.  Why don't you go back and reread and be a bit more careful in your analysis of what I actually posted.


----------



## Xchel

and since you want to seem to argue about manifest destiny 

this is from the link that I provided that you failed to read....or you would have noticed the first lines

The Mexican-American War was the first major conflict driven by the idea of "Manifest Destiny"; the belief that America had a God-given right, or destiny, to expand the country's borders from 'sea to shining sea'. This belief would eventually cause a great deal of suffering for many Mexicans, Native Americans and United States citizens. Following the earlier Texas War of Independence from Mexico, tensions between the two largest independent nations on the North American continent grew as Texas eventually became a U.S. state. Disputes over the border lines sparked military confrontation, helped by the fact that President Polk eagerly sought a war in order to seize large tracts of land from Mexico.

and this is from Wikipedia
Manifest Destiny was the 19th century American belief that the United States was destined to expand across the continent. It was used by Democrats in the 1840s to justify the war with Mexico; the concept was denounced by Whigs, and fell into disuse after the mid-19th century.
Manifest Destiny - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and this
The U.S.-Mexican War . Prelude to War . Manifest Destiny Overview | PBS

and this
The Mexican-American War


----------



## Xchel

it doesn't matter when it occurred..it was part of Mexico and Mexico did not recognize Texas independence.  The US started the Mexican American war because of the belief that they had a god given right to Mexican land....the proof has been provided to you..now disprove it.


----------



## Foxfyre

Xchel said:


> and since you want to seem to argue about manifest destiny
> 
> this is from the link that I provided that you failed to read....or you would have noticed the first lines
> 
> The Mexican-American War was the first major conflict driven by the idea of "Manifest Destiny"; the belief that America had a God-given right, or destiny, to expand the country's borders from 'sea to shining sea'. This belief would eventually cause a great deal of suffering for many Mexicans, Native Americans and United States citizens. Following the earlier Texas War of Independence from Mexico, tensions between the two largest independent nations on the North American continent grew as Texas eventually became a U.S. state. Disputes over the border lines sparked military confrontation, helped by the fact that President Polk eagerly sought a war in order to seize large tracts of land from Mexico.
> 
> and this is from Wikipedia
> Manifest Destiny was the 19th century American belief that the United States was destined to expand across the continent. It was used by Democrats in the 1840s to justify the war with Mexico; the concept was denounced by Whigs, and fell into disuse after the mid-19th century.
> Manifest Destiny - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> and this
> The U.S.-Mexican War . Prelude to War . Manifest Destiny Overview | PBS
> 
> and this
> The Mexican-American War



Did you miss the part that it also had its strong opponents as well as advocates?  And that the concept died out in the mid 19th century?  That would be 160 years ago?  Boy you carry a grudge a long time huh.


----------



## Xchel

> none of that has anything to do with U.S. immigration policy.



no it has to do with our drug war.


----------



## Unkotare

Againsheila said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> The three types of Japanese are kanji, hiragana, and katakana...there are dozens of dialects of Japanese, not just three.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those are the written languages.  To my knowledge there is only one spoken language in Japan.
> 
> Another written language is Rumanji...which is basically our alphabet spelling their words.
Click to expand...



No, those are three aspects of the ONE (written and spoken) language. And what you were talking about is 'Romanji.'


----------



## Unkotare

Functionality and fluency are matters of degree and ill-defined. Truly "mastering" a language other than your first - if you are older than the critical period - is indeed a life-long endeavor. Learning enough to function in a given context will of course depend on that context. If someone has been studying a language for many years they will be the first to admit they have not "mastered" it. On the other hand, someone who managed to pass Jr High Spanish may boast of being fluent when that is hardly the case and it is not uncommon for people in the first year or so of learning a language to over-estimate their degree of proficiency.


----------



## Zona

BDBoop said:


> Gingrich got applause at the debate for saying English should be our official language. Agree or disagree?



i disagree.  I think we should all learn the Native American language.


----------



## Xchel

Unkotare said:


> Functionality and fluency are matters of degree and ill-defined. Truly "mastering" a language other than your first - if you are older than the critical period - is indeed a life-long endeavor. Learning enough to function in a given context will of course depend on that context. If someone has been studying a language for many years they will be the first to admit they have not "mastered" it. On the other hand, someone who managed to pass Jr High Spanish may boast of being fluent when that is hardly the case and it is not uncommon for people in the first year or so of learning a language to over-estimate their degree of proficiency.



and they most certainly don't function in the language well enough to understand things like court proceedings, medical opinions, tax codes and so forth, which are all likely to be governmental functions affected by such an English only ruling.


----------



## Unkotare

Zona said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gingrich got applause at the debate for saying English should be our official language. Agree or disagree?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i disagree.  I think we should all learn the Native American language.
Click to expand...





Which one?


----------



## Unkotare

Xchel said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Functionality and fluency are matters of degree and ill-defined. Truly "mastering" a language other than your first - if you are older than the critical period - is indeed a life-long endeavor. Learning enough to function in a given context will of course depend on that context. If someone has been studying a language for many years they will be the first to admit they have not "mastered" it. On the other hand, someone who managed to pass Jr High Spanish may boast of being fluent when that is hardly the case and it is not uncommon for people in the first year or so of learning a language to over-estimate their degree of proficiency.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and they most certainly don't function in the language well enough to understand things like court proceedings, medical opinions, tax codes and so forth, which are all likely to be governmental functions affected by such an English only ruling.
Click to expand...



Which does not obligate the host nation to accomodate them.


----------



## Foxfyre

Unkotare said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Functionality and fluency are matters of degree and ill-defined. Truly "mastering" a language other than your first - if you are older than the critical period - is indeed a life-long endeavor. Learning enough to function in a given context will of course depend on that context. If someone has been studying a language for many years they will be the first to admit they have not "mastered" it. On the other hand, someone who managed to pass Jr High Spanish may boast of being fluent when that is hardly the case and it is not uncommon for people in the first year or so of learning a language to over-estimate their degree of proficiency.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and they most certainly don't function in the language well enough to understand things like court proceedings, medical opinions, tax codes and so forth, which are all likely to be governmental functions affected by such an English only ruling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Which does not obligate the host nation to accomodate them.
Click to expand...


Exactly.  

This guy says he has perfected a technique to have a working knowledge of any new language in three months.  I believe him though that would be really ambitious for most.
How to become fluent in a language in 3 months | Fluent in 3 months

The government generally uses a six-month time frame for workers to acquire a working knowledge of a language before they are sent on missions to a particular country.

The government uses these guidelines for proficiency:

» Elementary Proficiency
The person is able to satisfy routine travel needs and minimum courtesy requirements.

» Limited Working Proficiency
The person is able to satisfy routine social demands and limited work requirements.

» Minimum Professional Proficiency
The person can speak the language with sufficient structural accuracy and vocabulary to participate effectively in most formal and informal conversations on practical, social, and professional topics.

» Full Professional Proficiency
The person uses the language fluently and accurately on all levels normally pertinent to professional needs.

» Native or Optimum Bilingual Proficiency
The person has speaking proficiency equivalent to that of an educated native speaker.

Almost all who are sufficiently motivated can acquire limited working proficiency in six months and many will achieve minimum professional proficiency which would qualify them as bilingual in most occupations.  It would generally take a couple of years up to five years to get to native or full bilingual profiency, especially in the more difficult languages.


----------



## Unkotare

Anyone claiming "fluency in 3 months" is lying. "Full native" is a life-long pursuit and not a realistic goal anyway unless one starts before the end of the critical period and remains immersed in the language environment permanently.


----------



## Unkotare

Oh, and there are no "more difficult languages."


----------



## Ringel05

Xchel said:


> *it doesn't matter when it occurred..it was part of Mexico and Mexico did not recognize Texas independence.  The US started the Mexican American war because of the belief that they had a god given right to Mexican land*....the proof has been provided to you..now disprove it.



Yeah..... so?


----------



## Foxfyre

Unkotare said:


> Anyone claiming "fluency in 3 months" is lying. "Full native" is a life-long pursuit and not a realistic goal anyway unless one starts before the end of the critical period and remains immersed in the language environment permanently.



Nobody has suggested fluency in three months.  One of our friends here has tried really hard to pick a fight about that I think, but nobody has said anybody will be fluent in a new language in three months.  I have said and I have witnessed however, that for the sufficiently motivated, people can and do achieve a working level of a language in three months--enough to order from a menu, ask for and understand directions, read signs, and carry on a simple conversation.  Kids will do even better and with three months immersion in competent English instruction, a child from another country wil be able to hold his/her own in a First Grade classroom and will likely be fluent within a year.


----------



## Xchel

that isn't enough to justify that no government function should be translated into another language.  People have rights to access courts, tax offices, social security offices, hospitals, the police, etc in a language that they fully understand.  Face it, speaking a language half way and actually understanding things like court proceedings or a medical diagnosis or being able to explain something to the police are very different things that require a full mastery of the English language to do...if you don't have that then you need a translater to understand what is going on.


----------



## Wicked Jester

Xchel said:


> that isn't enough to justify that no government function should be translated into another language.  People have rights to access courts, tax offices, social security offices, hospitals, the police, etc in a language that they fully understand.  Face it, speaking a language half way and actually understanding things like court proceedings or a medical diagnosis or being able to explain something to the police are very different things that require a full mastery of the English language to do...if you don't have that then you need a translater to understand what is going on.


No problem......Just make English the official language, and keep the interpreters on stand by.....That's how it works in the Downtown L.A. Criminal Courts Building, where my wife has been a court reporter for almost 20 years.

Court sessions are done in English, period.......And the system works just fine.


----------



## Xchel

Wicked Jester said:


> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> that isn't enough to justify that no government function should be translated into another language.  People have rights to access courts, tax offices, social security offices, hospitals, the police, etc in a language that they fully understand.  Face it, speaking a language half way and actually understanding things like court proceedings or a medical diagnosis or being able to explain something to the police are very different things that require a full mastery of the English language to do...if you don't have that then you need a translater to understand what is going on.
> 
> 
> 
> No problem......Just make English the official language, and keep the interpreters on stand by.....That's how it works in the Downtown L.A. Criminal Courts Building, where my wife has been a court reporter for almost 20 years.
> 
> Court sessions are done in English, period.......And the system works just fine.
Click to expand...


Actually the interpreter makes the session basically not done in English period...for instance imagine not accepting an eye witness to a rape or murder because that witness does not speak sufficient English to explain what happened...that would be a tragedy for the victim and their family.  The problem is with you saying make English the official language and just keep interpreters on stand by is that isn't what people want that generally advocate for this law..they want no interpreters available period..they want English only period.


----------



## Wicked Jester

Xchel said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xchel said:
> 
> 
> 
> that isn't enough to justify that no government function should be translated into another language.  People have rights to access courts, tax offices, social security offices, hospitals, the police, etc in a language that they fully understand.  Face it, speaking a language half way and actually understanding things like court proceedings or a medical diagnosis or being able to explain something to the police are very different things that require a full mastery of the English language to do...if you don't have that then you need a translater to understand what is going on.
> 
> 
> 
> No problem......Just make English the official language, and keep the interpreters on stand by.....That's how it works in the Downtown L.A. Criminal Courts Building, where my wife has been a court reporter for almost 20 years.
> 
> Court sessions are done in English, period.......And the system works just fine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually the interpreter makes the session basically not done in English period...for instance imagine not accepting an eye witness to a rape or murder because that witness does not speak sufficient English to explain what happened...that would be a tragedy for the victim and their family.  The problem is with you saying make English the official language and just keep interpreters on stand by is that isn't what people want that generally advocate for this law..they want no interpreters available period..they want English only period.
Click to expand...

Nope, you are blatantly wrong, yet again....Funny how you were clueless about how business has the right to demand English only, when safety concerns warrant it. Now you're trying to say how our courts run.....You are full of shit. The cases are presented in ENGLISH. The rulings are made in ENGLISH. The Jurors are instructed in ENGLISH. Jurors deliberate in ENGLISH. Whatever jibberish language is required to be interpreted, it's interpreted.

NEVER has a defendent, victim, witness, been denied their say because they don' speak English......So take that La Raza bullshit, and drop it off in that shithole Honduras, where it belongs.


----------



## Xchel

Funny how you were clueless about how business has the right to demand English only

and I showed you how you were wrong, cited case law in fact...you can only demand it when it is life and death and not during breaks or to each other in the kitchen..you can demand they speak to you in English, but you can't demand that they say Good morning in English or do it for discriminatory purpose, which you just admitted to in your own post when you said you don't hire folks with an accent...you call other languages jibberish? What do you think English sounds like to someone who doesn't speak English? It sounds like jibberish.
La Raza? Interesting..never been around anyone in La Raza, but you clearly don't know that there are no La Raza groups in Honduras either...my bet is you live in some damn doublewide because you seem to want to try to degrade everyone around you and act as if you are better...that tells me immediately you are insecure and likely not a business owner at all.


----------



## Unkotare

Foxfyre said:


> Kids will do even better and with three months immersion in competent English instruction, a child from another country wil be able to hold his/her own in a First Grade classroom and will likely be fluent within a year.





No. That's not how it works. An adult will 'learn' more of a language in 3 months than a child (under the same circumstances), and no one is going to be 'fluent' in a year unless they have had prior exposure to the language.


----------



## Wicked Jester

Xchel said:


> Funny how you were clueless about how business has the right to demand English only
> 
> and I showed you how you were wrong, cited case law in fact...you can only demand it when it is life and death and not during breaks or to each other in the kitchen..you can demand they speak to you in English, but you can't demand that they say Good morning in English or do it for discriminatory purpose, which you just admitted to in your own post when you said you don't hire folks with an accent...you call other languages jibberish? What do you think English sounds like to someone who doesn't speak English? It sounds like jibberish.
> La Raza? Interesting..never been around anyone in La Raza, but you clearly don't know that there are no La Raza groups in Honduras either...my bet is you live in some damn doublewide because you seem to want to try to degrade everyone around you and act as if you are better...that tells me immediately you are insecure and likely not a business owner at all.


No, when you worked in my kitchens, and were in the kitchen, it was English only. And, I needed zero reason to get rid of somebody. It wasn't up to a natural born citizen to have to learn "caliente" as opposed to "hot", to appease some border jumping wetback....And, I never said I didn't hire people with accents, I said they had to speak fluent english. Don't twist my fuckin' words.

English will be the official language. If you don't like it, stay down in that third world shithole, and speak that third world jibberish until the village eats the sheep.


----------



## Unkotare

Did Honduras beat you up as a child or something?


----------



## Wicked Jester

Unkotare said:


> Did Honduras beat you up as a child or something?


Nobody's ever kicked my ass!

And, it's true. Honduras is a third world shithole, just as the majority of those south of the border shitholes are.


----------



## Unkotare

Wicked Jester said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did Honduras beat you up as a child or something?
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody's ever kicked my ass!.
Click to expand...



LOL! You're a good runner or a good liar. Aren't you a little old for this silly shit?


----------



## Unkotare

Wicked Jester said:


> Honduras is a third world shithole, just as the majority of those south of the border shitholes are.





Have you spent a lot of time in Honduras, and "a majority of" Central and South American countries?


----------



## Wicked Jester

Unkotare said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Honduras is a third world shithole, just as the majority of those south of the border shitholes are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you spent a lot of time in Honduras, and "a majority of" Central and South American countries?
Click to expand...

Sure have.....The avatar says it all.......They're fuckin' shitholes.

And i'm sick of 'em making their way north and turning our cities and towns into fucking shitholes.......Seal that southern border, and keep their dirty lil', disrespectful asses out of here.

And it's time we enact laws where any mayor who declares their city or town ''sanctuary" is held criminally responsible......Enough is enough.


----------



## Wicked Jester

RIP!....Philly Joe Vento!

A true american legend, who fought the good fight, AND WON!
[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AsmN1eJXGc[/ame]


----------



## Unkotare

Wicked Jester said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Honduras is a third world shithole, just as the majority of those south of the border shitholes are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you spent a lot of time in Honduras, and "a majority of" Central and South American countries?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure have.....The avatar says it all.......They're fuckin' shitholes..
Click to expand...



How much time did you spend in each country and in what capacity?


----------



## Wicked Jester

Unkotare said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you spent a lot of time in Honduras, and "a majority of" Central and South American countries?
> 
> 
> 
> Sure have.....The avatar says it all.......They're fuckin' shitholes..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How much time did you spend in each country and in what capacity?
Click to expand...

Not at liberty to say.


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## Unkotare

Then I call bullshit and you are just being a hater.


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## Disenchanted61

An "official language" implies fascistic overtones to me, but  there should be an official
standard of economic equity on the globe.


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## Unkotare

Wrong thread, Karl.


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## Wicked Jester

Unkotare said:


> Then I call bullshit and you are just being a hater.


You can call whatever you please, Punk......You mean nothing to me. I've already told you that........You became insignificant when I first encounetered you trying to dictate to people who they could debate with, and tried to do away with their 1st amendment right, 'cause you didn't like who they chose to debate with.

As I said before, take your whiney PC cowardice, and shove it up your ass!


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## Unkotare

Wicked Jester said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then I call bullshit and you are just being a hater.
> 
> 
> 
> You can call whatever you please, Punk......You mean nothing to me. I've already told you that........You became insignificant when I first encounetered you trying to dictate to people who they could debate with, and tried to do away with their 1st amendment right, 'cause you didn't like who they chose to debate with.
> 
> As I said before, take your whiney PC cowardice, and shove it up your ass!
Click to expand...




You mean when you decided to reveal yourself as a whiny, defensive racist? Yeah, I remember that.


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## Wicked Jester

Unkotare said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then I call bullshit and you are just being a hater.
> 
> 
> 
> You can call whatever you please, Punk......You mean nothing to me. I've already told you that........You became insignificant when I first encounetered you trying to dictate to people who they could debate with, and tried to do away with their 1st amendment right, 'cause you didn't like who they chose to debate with.
> 
> As I said before, take your whiney PC cowardice, and shove it up your ass!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean when you decided to reveal yourself as a whiny, defensive racist? Yeah, I remember that.
Click to expand...

Noooooooo, it's when you came up here trying to dictate to people like some pompous, whimpy lil' liberal punk, and had it shoved back down your throat.


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## Unkotare

Wicked Jester said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can call whatever you please, Punk......You mean nothing to me. I've already told you that........You became insignificant when I first encounetered you trying to dictate to people who they could debate with, and tried to do away with their 1st amendment right, 'cause you didn't like who they chose to debate with.
> 
> As I said before, take your whiney PC cowardice, and shove it up your ass!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean when you decided to reveal yourself as a whiny, defensive racist? Yeah, I remember that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Noooooooo, it's when you came up here trying to dictate to people like some pompous, whimpy lil' liberal punk, and had it shoved back down your throat.
Click to expand...



No, no I'm sure it was when you went out of your way to show not only that you are a racist but that you are a sensitive-sally, defensive little girl. I recall something about you not understanding English very well also.


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## Wicked Jester

Unkotare said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean when you decided to reveal yourself as a whiny, defensive racist? Yeah, I remember that.
> 
> 
> 
> Noooooooo, it's when you came up here trying to dictate to people like some pompous, whimpy lil' liberal punk, and had it shoved back down your throat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, no I'm sure it was when you went out of your way to show not only that you are a racist but that you are a sensitive-sally, defensive little girl. I recall something about you not understanding English very well also.
Click to expand...

Yeah, yeah, yeah, lil' man......Enough of your liberal PC bullshit. Lets listen to a real american:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeNHJCQDyIA&feature=related]"Order In English" Joey Vento of Geno&#39;s Steaks On Glenn Beck - YouTube[/ame]


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## Unkotare

I really don't care that you have a fetish for old Italian men. Keep your deviant 'lifestyle choices' to yourself, weakling.


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## Xchel

Unkotare, He has no idea about what is or isn't a shithole or what Central American countries are actuall
SAN PEDRO SULA HONDURAS - YouTube

The above is the 'shithole' that he is talking about..this is the city I live in..here it is called the second city sometimes and other times it is called the industrial capital of Honduras.

and these are our beaches...some shit hole eh?
PLAYAS DEL CARIBE Y PACIFICO DE HONDURAS. HONDURAS BEACHES. - YouTube


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## Unkotare

So, anyone still in favor? Doesn't seem practical to me on a number of levels.


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## Katzndogz

Wicked Jester said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then I call bullshit and you are just being a hater.
> 
> 
> 
> You can call whatever you please, Punk......You mean nothing to me. I've already told you that........You became insignificant when I first encounetered you trying to dictate to people who they could debate with, and tried to do away with their 1st amendment right, 'cause you didn't like who they chose to debate with.
> 
> As I said before, take your whiney PC cowardice, and shove it up your ass!
Click to expand...


He tries to sucker an unsuspecting person into some kind of flame war.  He's been doing it for a very long time.  He's done it to me, and to Moonglow, Buford, Oohpoopahdoo, Skydancer, GHook93, Dante, Jake Starkey, Huggy, Catzmeow, Big Fitz, Bobgnote, Blimpo, 52ndStreet, Rightwinger, Hatinring, There4eyem, Jack131, SW2Silver, Bloodline, Lilollady, Saigon, Joe B, A BikerSailor, JPTR, Joe B, Shoot Speeders, Mister Beale, William Joyce, Varelse, 4horsemen. Lonestar Logic, Friends, Matthew, Bleipriester, mememe, Dugdale Jukes, BullKurtzusmc, Protectionist,  Katsteve 2012.  Now you.   It's a pattern of attention seeking behavior.


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## Unkotare

Katzndogz said:


> He tries to sucker an unsuspecting person into some kind of flame war.  He's been doing it for a very long time.  He's done it to me, and to Moonglow, Buford, Oohpoopahdoo, Skydancer, GHook93, Dante, Jake Starkey, Huggy, Catzmeow, Big Fitz, Bobgnote, Blimpo, 52ndStreet, Rightwinger, Hatinring, There4eyem, Jack131, SW2Silver, Bloodline, Lilollady, Saigon, Joe B, A BikerSailor, JPTR, Joe B, Shoot Speeders, Mister Beale, William Joyce, Varelse, 4horsemen. Lonestar Logic, Friends, Matthew, Bleipriester, mememe, Dugdale Jukes, BullKurtzusmc, Protectionist,  Katsteve 2012.  Now you.   It's a pattern of attention seeking behavior.


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## RonPaulLiberty

It should be in the United States and you can say that just using the efficiency argument.  It would be too chaotic if everything had to be communicated in multiple languages.  Things would slow down a lot.  Having one accepted language can help facilitate a lot of things and make them efficient.


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## konradv

Katzndogz said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then I call bullshit and you are just being a hater.
> 
> 
> 
> You can call whatever you please, Punk......You mean nothing to me. I've already told you that........You became insignificant when I first encounetered you trying to dictate to people who they could debate with, and tried to do away with their 1st amendment right, 'cause you didn't like who they chose to debate with.
> 
> As I said before, take your whiney PC cowardice, and shove it up your ass!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He tries to sucker an unsuspecting person into some kind of flame war.  He's been doing it for a very long time.  He's done it to me, and to Moonglow, Buford, Oohpoopahdoo, Skydancer, GHook93, Dante, Jake Starkey, Huggy, Catzmeow, Big Fitz, Bobgnote, Blimpo, 52ndStreet, Rightwinger, Hatinring, There4eyem, Jack131, SW2Silver, Bloodline, Lilollady, Saigon, Joe B, A BikerSailor, JPTR, Joe B, Shoot Speeders, Mister Beale, William Joyce, Varelse, 4horsemen. Lonestar Logic, Friends, Matthew, Bleipriester, mememe, Dugdale Jukes, BullKurtzusmc, Protectionist,  Katsteve 2012.  Now you.   It's a pattern of attention seeking behavior.
Click to expand...


SO, the new Quantum Windbag, eh?


----------



## Unkotare

RonPaulLiberty said:


> It would be too chaotic if everything had to be communicated in multiple languages.  .




We already do.


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## Ravi

RonPaulLiberty said:


> It should be in the United States and you can say that just using the efficiency argument.  It would be too chaotic if everything had to be communicated in multiple languages.  Things would slow down a lot.  Having one accepted language can help facilitate a lot of things and make them efficient.


There's something ironic about your screen name.


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## Moonglow

Never in the history of the fed govt. has the official language been designated as English...there is no law supporting English only..


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## Unkotare

The Legendary English-Only Vote of 1795


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## Uncensored2008

Unkotare said:


> RonPaulLiberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> It would be too chaotic if everything had to be communicated in multiple languages.  .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We already do.
Click to expand...


The best way to divide people and create friction is through multiple languages. Ensuring that group A doesn't know what group B is saying is a great plan to create friction, division and violence.

Of course this is what the Khmer Rouge democrats seek, a nation divided and at each others throats is easy to subdue and furthers the justifications for totalitarianism.

If you want a free nation, then English will be the language of all official business. If we want a Balkanized mess that cries out for a strong man to become dictator so that order can be restored, then by all means promote every clan conversing in a unique dialect.


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## Unkotare

Uncensored2008 said:


> The best way to divide people and create friction is through multiple languages. Ensuring that group A doesn't know what group B is saying is a great plan to create friction, division and violence...




"Multiple languages" doesn't mean "group A doesn't know what group B is saying" and it never has.


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## Uncensored2008

Unkotare said:


> "Multiple languages" doesn't mean "group A doesn't know what group B is saying" and it never has.



English is the glue that holds our culture together. Those who seek to remove that glue are not driven by the desire for a more civil and cohesive society; quite the opposite.


----------



## Unkotare

Uncensored2008 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Multiple languages" doesn't mean "group A doesn't know what group B is saying" and it never has.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> English is the glue that holds our culture together. ...
Click to expand...



No it's not. But don't worry, English will continue to be the dominant language in the US.


----------

