# Shotgun to Black Powder Adapter



## Missourian

I'm kinda getting into the black powder thing since I picked up the replica 1960 Army,  and I had seen Ol' Dave Canterbury's videos on converting a single shot shotgun into a black powder shotgun.

When I went to look for the videos,  I found this:

[youtube]txedePKtMu4[/youtube]​

I ordered one for 12 gauge and one for 20 Gauge,  and they came today.




























Looking forward to testing it out.

What do ya think?


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## Sunni Man

Looks pretty cool.......let us know how well it works.    .


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## Missourian

Been working on this for awhile now...but just couldn't get the muzzle velocity I needed to configure an operational black powder fowler...until now.





Found this beautiful pre '68 Stevens model 940E single shot 12 gauge with a 36 inch barrel (pictured with a standard H&R Pardner single shot 12 gauge with a 28 inch barrel).


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## Missourian

Can't edit the OP...here is the video in the new format.


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## whitehall

It's a challenge to get a slug down a barrel and prime it and fire a rifle and it's doubly hard to pour powder and shot into a shotgun that is not intended for muzzle loading and ram it home with a stick.  Muzzle loader rifles and shotguns are cheap enough..Why not get a modern gun made for black powder?


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## Missourian

whitehall said:


> It's a challenge to get a slug down a barrel and prime it and fire a rifle and it's doubly hard to pour powder and shot into a shotgun that is not intended for muzzle loading and ram it home with a stick.  Muzzle loader rifles and shotguns are cheap enough..Why not get a modern gun made for black powder?




I have muzzle loading rifles and pistols...the shotguns I found were pretty expensive.  They are much more difficult to find than other BP firearms.  The Pedersolis are very expensive.  The Knight TK2000 is pretty high dollar too,  and hard to locate.

I already had a few H&R Pardners.  The Model 940E was only $100 and the adapter was like twenty bucks.  The older H&R Huntsman 50 cal had push in breech plugs,  and this isn't that different from that system.  

Have any suggestions for affordable BP shotguns?


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## Mr. H.

In his youth, the red-headed evil stepson was an interpreter at a state historic site. He became good friends with one of the site managers and talked him into loaning out an original flint-lock long rifle. The kind that had a powder pan. We had fun loading and shooting that thing. It must have been 150 years old.


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## whitehall

Converting BP guns to smokeless is illegal and probably not a good idea but I can understand the motivation to want to shoot cartridge ammo. I don't understand the point of converting a smokeless shotgun to BP. Maybe it's fun to see that blast of smoke. Preppers might think that they can make BP if the doo doo hits the fan and it's true but you still have to buy the percussion caps.


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## Missourian

whitehall said:


> Converting BP guns to smokeless is illegal and probably not a good idea but I can understand the motivation to want to shoot cartridge ammo. I don't understand the point of converting a smokeless shotgun to BP. Maybe it's fun to see that blast of smoke. Preppers might think that they can make BP if the doo doo hits the fan and it's true but you still have to buy the percussion caps.




This one and my BP rifle use 209 primers.

1000 for $31...Winchester Primers #209 Shotshell


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## whitehall

Let me get this straight. You hand load black powder and shot and a shotgun primer in a shotgun intended for a shotgun cartridge for fun. It might be hard to find modern percussion shotguns but I've seen reasonable priced original percussion shotguns all over the place and there are no restrictions in their purchase even on the internet.


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## rockledr

whitehall said:


> Converting BP guns to smokeless is illegal and probably not a good idea but I can understand the motivation to want to shoot cartridge ammo. I don't understand the point of converting a smokeless shotgun to BP. Maybe it's fun to see that blast of smoke. Preppers might think that they can make BP if the doo doo hits the fan and it's true but you still have to buy the percussion caps.


 What are you saying is illegal? They sell conversion cylinders for cap and ball revolvers. Nothing illegal about it.


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## Missourian

whitehall said:


> Let me get this straight. You hand load black powder and shot and a shotgun primer in a shotgun intended for a shotgun cartridge for fun. It might be hard to find modern percussion shotguns but I've seen reasonable priced original percussion shotguns all over the place and there are no restrictions in their purchase even on the internet.



I see them...but I'm not sure I trust them.  Most of them are laminated steel (sometimes call Damascus steel) or wire twist barrels...not exactly the benchmark for strength and longevity.


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## 9thIDdoc

I may be missing the point but why not just load shot shells with black instead of smokeless powder?


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## Missourian

9thIDdoc said:


> I may be missing the point but why not just load shot shells with black instead of smokeless powder?



The black powder melts the plastic shotshell.  I did consider some Magtech fully brass shotshells  (Magtech Shotshell Hulls 12 Ga 2-1/2 Brass Box of 25) but the 209 primer just slides into this adapter like a percussion cap on a nipple.  Easy in...easy out.

There is also a black powder reloadable shell available.


To me though...it just seems easier to load the shotgun like a muzzle loading rifle with the adapter working like a breach plug.


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## Muhammed

Missourian said:


> I'm kinda getting into the black powder thing since I picked up the replica 1960 Army,  and I had seen Ol' Dave Canterbury's videos on converting a single shot shotgun into a black powder shotgun.
> 
> When I went to look for the videos,  I found this:
> 
> [youtube]txedePKtMu4[/youtube]​
> 
> I ordered one for 12 gauge and one for 20 Gauge,  and they came today.
> 
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> Looking forward to testing it out.
> 
> What do ya think?


I think it would be stupid to ruin it.


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## Missourian

Muhammed said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm kinda getting into the black powder thing since I picked up the replica 1960 Army,  and I had seen Ol' Dave Canterbury's videos on converting a single shot shotgun into a black powder shotgun.
> 
> When I went to look for the videos,  I found this:
> 
> [youtube]txedePKtMu4[/youtube]​
> 
> I ordered one for 12 gauge and one for 20 Gauge,  and they came today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Looking forward to testing it out.
> 
> What do ya think?
> 
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> 
> I think it would be stupid to ruin it.
Click to expand...


Ruin what?  The gun?  Oh...it won't ruin it as long as you clean it well after shooting black powder or equivalent thru it.  The powder is corrosive only if you leave it in or on the gun.

There are many black powder firearms that have survived a century...some centuries.


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## Muhammed

Missourian said:


> Muhammed said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm kinda getting into the black powder thing since I picked up the replica 1960 Army,  and I had seen Ol' Dave Canterbury's videos on converting a single shot shotgun into a black powder shotgun.
> 
> When I went to look for the videos,  I found this:
> 
> [youtube]txedePKtMu4[/youtube]​
> 
> I ordered one for 12 gauge and one for 20 Gauge,  and they came today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking forward to testing it out.
> 
> What do ya think?
> 
> 
> 
> I think it would be stupid to ruin it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ruin what?  The gun?  Oh...it won't ruin it as long as you clean it well after shooting black powder or equivalent thru it.  The powder is corrosive only if you leave it in or on the gun.
> 
> There are many black powder firearms that have survived a century...some centuries.
Click to expand...

Survived?


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## Missourian

Muhammed said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muhammed said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm kinda getting into the black powder thing since I picked up the replica 1960 Army,  and I had seen Ol' Dave Canterbury's videos on converting a single shot shotgun into a black powder shotgun.
> 
> When I went to look for the videos,  I found this:
> 
> [youtube]txedePKtMu4[/youtube]​
> 
> I ordered one for 12 gauge and one for 20 Gauge,  and they came today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking forward to testing it out.
> 
> What do ya think?
> 
> 
> 
> I think it would be stupid to ruin it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ruin what?  The gun?  Oh...it won't ruin it as long as you clean it well after shooting black powder or equivalent thru it.  The powder is corrosive only if you leave it in or on the gun.
> 
> There are many black powder firearms that have survived a century...some centuries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Survived?
Click to expand...


Yes.  NRA Museums: NRA National Sporting Arms Museum


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## Muhammed

Missourian said:


> Muhammed said:
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> 
> Missourian said:
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> Muhammed said:
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> 
> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm kinda getting into the black powder thing since I picked up the replica 1960 Army,  and I had seen Ol' Dave Canterbury's videos on converting a single shot shotgun into a black powder shotgun.
> 
> When I went to look for the videos,  I found this:
> 
> [youtube]txedePKtMu4[/youtube]​
> 
> I ordered one for 12 gauge and one for 20 Gauge,  and they came today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking forward to testing it out.
> 
> What do ya think?
> 
> 
> 
> I think it would be stupid to ruin it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ruin what?  The gun?  Oh...it won't ruin it as long as you clean it well after shooting black powder or equivalent thru it.  The powder is corrosive only if you leave it in or on the gun.
> 
> There are many black powder firearms that have survived a century...some centuries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Survived?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes.  NRA Museums: NRA National Sporting Arms Museum
Click to expand...

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a2/51/70/a25170271c38a6251ea20a8039b2a1ca.jpg


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## Missourian

I'm sorry,  but I am missing your point.  Original black powder firearms lasted for as long as someone took care of them and the rifling lasted...just like modern firearms.  Steel technology was not nearly as advanced as today...black powder firearms were made of milder steel,  and the rifling was shot out after a time.  That's why the most prolific surviving examples are muskets,  blunderbuss and shotguns.  

Like I said in a prior post...there are literally thousands of damascus steel,  laminated steel and wire twist double barrels floating around for sale...but the process used to produce them didn't lend itself to longevity and strength.  It had very little to do with the black powder propellant...and even them,  only when not properly maintained.


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## Alystyr

whitehall said:


> Why not get a modern gun made for black powder?


It seems to me that using an adapter would allow a standard center-fire shotgun to be more versatile, letting one use a favorite firearm in "black powder season" as well as the conventional "gun season".


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## 9thIDdoc

A smooth bore "musket" loaded with shot would be an alternative.


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## rockledr

Have you fired it yet? Give us a range report please. I would also like to know what load you go with. Curious people are curious.


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## Ringel05

Missourian said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a challenge to get a slug down a barrel and prime it and fire a rifle and it's doubly hard to pour powder and shot into a shotgun that is not intended for muzzle loading and ram it home with a stick.  Muzzle loader rifles and shotguns are cheap enough..Why not get a modern gun made for black powder?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have muzzle loading rifles and pistols...the shotguns I found were pretty expensive.  They are much more difficult to find than other BP firearms.  The Pedersolis are very expensive.  The Knight TK2000 is pretty high dollar too,  and hard to locate.
> 
> I already had a few H&R Pardners.  The Model 940E was only $100 and the adapter was like twenty bucks.  The older H&R Huntsman 50 cal had push in breech plugs,  and this isn't that different from that system.
> 
> Have any suggestions for affordable BP shotguns?
Click to expand...

Depends on what you want, lot's of old (and some reproduction) shotguns out there that go for under a grand.  Some are cartridge black powder loads and some are muzzleloaders.
You can get a good Cimarron Coach Gun for around $600 or less.  Any .69 caliber smoothbore (percussion or flinter) is essentially a shotgun.  
I have a 12 gage CVA double barrel percussion I might consider parting with, I'm looking for an 1870s - 80s break open cartridge shotgun.


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## 9thIDdoc

Used to have an original Manton percussion 10 Ga double barrel that was my favorite for hunting rabbits without dogs. That combination of 10 Ga. and no choke was highly lethal on rabbits in heavy cover.


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## whitehall

rockledr said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Converting BP guns to smokeless is illegal and probably not a good idea but I can understand the motivation to want to shoot cartridge ammo. I don't understand the point of converting a smokeless shotgun to BP. Maybe it's fun to see that blast of smoke. Preppers might think that they can make BP if the doo doo hits the fan and it's true but you still have to buy the percussion caps.
> 
> 
> 
> What are you saying is illegal? They sell conversion cylinders for cap and ball revolvers. Nothing illegal about it.
Click to expand...

You can buy a cap and ball revolver over the counter but if you convert a cap and ball to fire smokeless cartridges it becomes a modern handgun subject to the same laws as if it was a Glock.


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## rockledr

whitehall said:


> rockledr said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Converting BP guns to smokeless is illegal and probably not a good idea but I can understand the motivation to want to shoot cartridge ammo. I don't understand the point of converting a smokeless shotgun to BP. Maybe it's fun to see that blast of smoke. Preppers might think that they can make BP if the doo doo hits the fan and it's true but you still have to buy the percussion caps.
> 
> 
> 
> What are you saying is illegal? They sell conversion cylinders for cap and ball revolvers. Nothing illegal about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can buy a cap and ball revolver over the counter but if you convert a cap and ball to fire smokeless cartridges it becomes a modern handgun subject to the same laws as if it was a Glock.
Click to expand...


That is true to an extent. If you ship the gun and the conversion cylinder together they are considered a modern firearm. However ship them seperately and it is still an antique weapon and doesn't need a BG check. But that is not the point you said it was illegal to convert them when it is not.


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## Ringel05

rockledr said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rockledr said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Converting BP guns to smokeless is illegal and probably not a good idea but I can understand the motivation to want to shoot cartridge ammo. I don't understand the point of converting a smokeless shotgun to BP. Maybe it's fun to see that blast of smoke. Preppers might think that they can make BP if the doo doo hits the fan and it's true but you still have to buy the percussion caps.
> 
> 
> 
> What are you saying is illegal? They sell conversion cylinders for cap and ball revolvers. Nothing illegal about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can buy a cap and ball revolver over the counter but if you convert a cap and ball to fire smokeless cartridges it becomes a modern handgun subject to the same laws as if it was a Glock.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is true to an extent. If you ship the gun and the conversion cylinder together they are considered a modern firearm. However ship them seperately and it is still an antique weapon and doesn't need a BG check. But that is not the point you said it was illegal to convert them when it is not.
Click to expand...

Actually depends on what state one lives in, some states allow it, some don't and from what I can tell all he was saying is if a BP (non cartridge) firearm is converted to a cartridge firearm then all federal, state and local laws come into play, if it's supposed to be registered in your state it better be registered.  Be careful with conversions in some states it's akin to standing on the precipice of a chasm waiting to fall in.  
If the barrel is not rifled and it's converted to cartridge it's suddenly a shotgun that is under-length without a proper tax stamp.......  Oops........


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## rockledr

Ringel05 said:


> rockledr said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rockledr said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Converting BP guns to smokeless is illegal and probably not a good idea but I can understand the motivation to want to shoot cartridge ammo. I don't understand the point of converting a smokeless shotgun to BP. Maybe it's fun to see that blast of smoke. Preppers might think that they can make BP if the doo doo hits the fan and it's true but you still have to buy the percussion caps.
> 
> 
> 
> What are you saying is illegal? They sell conversion cylinders for cap and ball revolvers. Nothing illegal about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can buy a cap and ball revolver over the counter but if you convert a cap and ball to fire smokeless cartridges it becomes a modern handgun subject to the same laws as if it was a Glock.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is true to an extent. If you ship the gun and the conversion cylinder together they are considered a modern firearm. However ship them seperately and it is still an antique weapon and doesn't need a BG check. But that is not the point you said it was illegal to convert them when it is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually depends on what state one lives in, some states allow it, some don't and from what I can tell all he was saying is if a BP (non cartridge) firearm is converted to a cartridge firearm then all federal, state and local laws come into play, if it's supposed to be registered in your state it better be registered.  Be careful with conversions in some states it's akin to standing on the precipice of a chasm waiting to fall in.
> If the barrel is not rifled and it's converted to cartridge it's suddenly a shotgun that is under-length without a proper tax stamp.......  Oops........
Click to expand...


I understand all of that. I have a nice little collection and have been at it for over 30 years. I don't like to see people state things as fact when they are not. When they do this we end up with a lot of people believing BS, like the gun show loophole. What it comes down to is people need to research the law for where they are and what they want to do.


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