# Immigration Reform may mean 8,520,000 new Dem voters.  Obama won by 3,000,000. votes.



## Beachboy (Jun 8, 2013)

The actual link I need to open this thread is not yet available.  Last night on Bill Maher's real time it was pointed out that in 2012 President Obama received 71% of the Hispanic vote.

Maher was discussing that if the 12,000,000 illegal immigrants in the United States took a pathway to citizenship, and could vote, 71% would equal 8,520,000 Democrats and 3,480,000 Republicans.  Obama beat Romney by 3,000,000 votes in 2012.  This could mean that Democrats could automatically win a national election before a candidate was even nominated!

The question of 12,000,000 new voters was given as a reason why Republicans will defeat Immigration Reform.  However, this too is controversial.

This is the closest link I could find to this subject, (but in this case it looks as though any opinion would be as good as any other).  It makes sense to me.  http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/us/politics/19immig.html?_r=0


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## Rozman (Jun 8, 2013)

I don't remember all the details as to when this happened.
I do seem to remember Hillary Clinton wanting to give the vote to felons.

That's quite a few votes for the Democrat party don't ya think....


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## Beachboy (Jun 8, 2013)

Rozman said:


> I don't remember all the details as to when this happened.
> I do seem to remember Hillary Clinton wanting to give the vote to felons.
> 
> That's quite a few votes for the Democrat party don't ya think....



Yes, that is a significant number of votes.  More than enough to change election results.

Got curious about your post.  Did not find anything about Hillary  Clinton, but only 11 States do not allow Felons to vote for life.  Voter Disfranchisement | American Civil Liberties Union  Apparently, the ACLU is on the cases.

To relate this to the topic, I do not know what the percentage is of  illegal aliens who are felons.  However, the deportation rate for  illegal aliens is about 400,000 per year.  President Obama made felons a  top priority for deportation.  I would imagine the number of felons is  less than 3% after doing some quick math.




​ 
P. S. Love your avatar, loved_ Fast Times at Ridgemont._


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## CrusaderFrank (Jun 8, 2013)

Wait a second, I thought Joe Arapio was wrong to target Hispanics as Illegals?

Are most Illegals Hispanic according to Bill Maher?


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## beagle9 (Jun 9, 2013)

Rozman said:


> I don't remember all the details as to when this happened.
> I do seem to remember Hillary Clinton wanting to give the vote to felons.
> 
> That's quite a few votes for the Democrat party don't ya think....


I have a friend who works in the prison system where he is an officer, and the criminals there he claimed voted.


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## beagle9 (Jun 9, 2013)

Beachboy said:


> Rozman said:
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If these illegals weren't here in the numbers in which they are, then our schools could revert back to freedom in education, where as if a middle school student decides he or she doesn't want to be educated anymore around seventh grade and beyond, then he or she could quit, but they should be ready to take on some responsibility in a job in which the illegals were filling in so many sectors. This would settle a lot of problems in America, where as right now we have to many Americans, and not enough jobs available to them, so they are being forced to remain in areas in which they don't want to be in (including school), and when this happens trouble ensues quickly afterwards due to rebellion that is created in them by such forcing upon them. We must turn this nation back into a free nation, and quit forcing issues until we create a bad situation just as we have done in America to date. Years ago a young person had two options available to them, either remain in school after seventh grade or drop out and get a job in which there were plenty. Then when the young person see's that their abilities are limited in these early on chosen jobs by them, they still have the option to go back to school part time while working, in order to get the rest of that needed education in which they now realize they needed and should have gotten.  The illegals changed all this, where as they came here in the millions, and they took away this freedom Americans had in choice, so this caused Americans to be forced to stay in many areas in which they felt they didn't want to stay in, so it all began closing in on them, and this is where we had Hollywood come in to fill up their minds with garbage, and to finish the rebellious mind with all sorts of bad in which they began emulating upon society at large.  Talk about a one two and then a third punch to Americans real freedoms of choice...WOW. Hmm another part of this dilemma faced today, is the no parent household, in which this means that both parents are out working, so if a child decides to quit school in order to pursue something else, they have no structural support system at home to accommodate this move by them. What this also means is that the schools have become a day care center for young people, while the parents are out trying to make ends meet, and still can't make ends meet in todays set up. This problem then makes the child who is forced to stay at school, angry about being there, and not being out there helping his parents make ends meet also, so rebellion comes next, and this may come in and/or takes many forms. What about the children who are far advanced in their minds, but the schools don't recognize this, and so they are left there to feels as if they are being dragged along in a wasted situation, because they feel they are already ready to get out and make some real money to help themselves or help their families ?  What about such a child in which is then being disrespected due to the lack of understanding by the school in which has no way to understand what such a student wants in life at this point, and is more interested in that child remaining there due to his or her head count instead ? The private sector once accommodated the balance in our society well, but somehow they gave this responsibility completely over to the government, who is mainly interested in control, and in head counts, and this is done to somehow control it all for future votes now.


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## Stephanie (Jun 9, 2013)

Why do you think Obama is big on CHANGING our immigration system and says it BROKEN..

He and Democrats know EXCATLY what they are doing...it's shame the American CITIZENS in this country don't care more


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## JoeB131 (Jun 9, 2013)

Rozman said:


> I don't remember all the details as to when this happened.
> I do seem to remember Hillary Clinton wanting to give the vote to felons.
> 
> That's quite a few votes for the Democrat party don't ya think....



Why should someone be denied their right to vote because they've been convicted of a crime? 

Especially if they've already completed their sentence?


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## beagle9 (Jun 9, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Rozman said:
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> > I don't remember all the details as to when this happened.
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What about the voter drive that went on in the prisons ? If a person commits a crime and is serving time, then they should have absolutely no rights to vote while in prison serving any sentence given them. Now once they get out then *yes* they should be able to participate again in such activity.


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## JoeB131 (Jun 9, 2013)

beagle9 said:


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Most voter drives in prisons are for people who either haven't been convicted of a crime or aren't accused of anything that serious.  

Here's the thing though. We have 2 million in prison and 7 million on probation or parole.  Most of them being minority and or poor.  Obviously, our politics would be very different if they were fully enfranchised, which makes me wonder if that's the point.


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## beagle9 (Jun 9, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


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Huh ? What are they doing in jail or prison then ? I thought when convicted of a crime, and one is incarcerated, then that person gives up certain rights or is forced to until free again ? Otherwise isn't this part of the punishment, where as to make a person feel that their activities has made them a non-participant in certain areas, and this in order to make them feel that what they have done is not acceptable by society in anyway ?   Now wouldn't it be nice to gather up as many of ones ilk as possible to vote, in order to vote for what ever type of society one wants, and this be it an immoral society or a moral society upon which ever direction it all takes ? We must always shoot for a moral society, and make it where an immoral society can't vote itself into the leadership roles of society, so prison and jails should always be excluded from the process of voting period.


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## JoeB131 (Jun 9, 2013)

beagle9 said:


> [
> Huh ? What are they doing in jail or prison then ? I thought when convicted of a crime, and one is incarcerated, then that person gives up certain rights or is forced to until free again ? Otherwise isn't this part of the punishment, where as to make a person feel that their activities has made them a non-participant in certain areas, and this in order to make them feel that what they have done is not acceptable by society in anyway ?   Now wouldn't it be nice to gather up as many of ones ilk as possible to vote, in order to vote for what ever type of society one wants, and this be it an immoral society or a moral society upon which ever direction it all takes ? We must always shoot for a moral society, and make it where an immoral society can't vote itself into the leadership roles of society, so prison and jails should always be excluded from the process of voting period.



Poor people can languish in prison for months awaiting their trials if they can't afford bail or aren't granted bail. 

And, no, I don't think we should exclude prisoners of their right to vote. 

The problem is of course, is that we've turned prisons into a profit industry, which is why we've gone from half a million in prisons in 1980 to over 2 million today.


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## Katzndogz (Jun 9, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> beagle9 said:
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If someone is in prison they have been convicted in a court and remanded to state prison.  If they have not been convicted of a crime and are being held because they cannot make bail or are ineligible for bail, they are in jail.


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## Zona (Jun 9, 2013)

History will look back on republicans with shame.  Like what this country did to blacks, Japanese, Chinese, Indians etc. 

You people are just shameful.


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## beagle9 (Jun 9, 2013)

Zona said:


> History will look back on republicans with shame.  Like what this country did to blacks, Japanese, Chinese, Indians etc.
> 
> You people are just shameful.


And you say this why ? How about be more specific before making blanket statements in which make you appear as a racist against what you deem in your mind for whom Republicans are.   You know that old white race that just abused and fought people for no good reason in order to establish this nation and all, I mean just go on and say it why don't you ?   That's who you think that they are, and probably someone like you will never change in your twisted mind concerning your education about these things, because you were probably educated like Barack and Michelle were in the church in which they attended.


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## beagle9 (Jun 9, 2013)

Katzndogz said:


> JoeB131 said:
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How is it that one is *HELD* without being accused or convicted of a crime, and without proper and direct evidence against them ? What happened to innocent until proven guilty in a court of law statute ? If one is innocent until proven guilty, then how are they being detained or held in jail ? If have nothing solid on an individual, are they not to be allowed to go free until called back in for further questioning about the problem when evidence arises against them, or rather a witness steps forward to directly bring charges against the person, therefore giving the law the right to* HOLD *the person based on accusations that are serious in nature or the law actually has evidence to hold the person due to evidence in which they have gathered in which is then known by them to also justify holding them as well ? If they hold a person in jail, then they have strong evidence against them, and at this point I think voting should be the last thing on any ones mind.  I would think that the person would have to be cleared of all charges against them, before returning to full status of a citizen, and then I think they should be compensated slightly (within reason) for being detained without enough evidence against them in the first place. For every person improperly detained, and then later let go as being innocent, they should be given $5,000 dollars as a departing gift, where as this would be a deterrent to help stop abuse of law enforcement when arresting and holding innocent people without proper evidence being met or established against them. A state by state assessment could be made of those states who use the fund set up more so than others, thus prompting an investigation into their reasoning for detaining citizens without proper evidence involved against them. Hmmm, but this could make law enforcement even more corrupt against the citizens if not careful. Maybe in a every police station across the land, they could have a federal officer who would make reports on all that he would note on such activity, and then would report it as to the operational standards being conducted within these precincts and/or stations across America.

I still say prisoners or jail birds should not vote or they should not be tapped by political parties to vote. Keep voting out of this area is my honest opinion, as it just isn't right to allow prisoners to vote. It undermines their punishment, and that is what's wrong with this nation now it seems.


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## Beachboy (Jun 9, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Wait a second, I thought Joe Arapio was wrong to target Hispanics as Illegals?
> 
> Are most Illegals Hispanic according to Bill Maher?



Neither Bill Maher, nor I for that matter are saying anything against Illegal aliens of Hispanics. 

All that is being pointed out is that President Obama received 71% of  the Hispanic vote in 2012.  If a pathway to citizenship were given the  12,000,000 Hispanic illegal aliens already in the United States, it would create *8,520,000*  Democratic voters.  Keep in mind that President Obama defeated Romney  by 3,000,000 votes.  It is possible under Immigration Reform that when  all 12,000,000 illegal aliens were made citizens, Democrats could win  the General Election before a candidate was nominated.

This is to say _nothing bad_ about Hispanics or illegal aliens.  It is simply a way to crunch the numbers.  It was a discussion on Bill Maher's _Real Time_  television show and may NOT be a fact.  However, I find it to be a  reasonable consideration.  Republicans have mentioned it, and it MAY be a  factor in why Republicans are impeding progress on Immigration Reform.   Political pundits on _Real Time_ predict that Immigration Reform  will probably fail in the U. S. Senate.  Republican, U. S. Senator,  Marco Rubio of Florida authored the bill, and now plans to vote against  his own bill!






Rubio​


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## Leweman (Jun 9, 2013)

Nah it wouldn't create new voters, they already vote.


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## LoneLaugher (Jun 9, 2013)

beagle9 said:


> Zona said:
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> > History will look back on republicans with shame.  Like what this country did to blacks, Japanese, Chinese, Indians etc.
> ...



Well said. You have a way with the written word.


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## Beachboy (Jun 9, 2013)

Leweman said:


> Nah it wouldn't create new voters, they already vote.



You must live in a border State too!


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## Katzndogz (Jun 10, 2013)

beagle9 said:


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Become a court watcher.  Go down to your local court house, watch the cases in arraignment court and see how it goes.  No one in the United States is held without being charged with a crime for more than 72 hours.  After 72 hours, they have to be charged or released.    Then, all the arguments you make as to why they should be released are made by the defendant's attorney to the judge.  The judge will issue a ruling as the flight risk of the defendant.  If he or she presents no risk of flight, they can be released on their own recognizance, no bail.  If they present a risk, the judge will weigh that risk and order bail in an amount sufficient to secure the next appearance.   If they cannot make bail, they are held in jail.  It's better than letting them out to escape and PLENTY of them make bail and run.  That's how Dog the Bounty Hunter got his own show.  

I agree that prisoners should not be allowed to vote.  Parolees and probationers should not be allowed to vote.


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## Beachboy (Jun 10, 2013)

Katzndogz said:


> I agree that prisoners should not be allowed to vote.  Parolees and probationers should not be allowed to vote.



But, do you think it would be "OK" if they ran for the U. S. Senate?


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## Beachboy (Jun 10, 2013)

*The OP*



Beachboy said:


> The actual link I need to open  this thread is not yet available.  Last night on Bill Maher's real time  it was pointed out that in 2012 President Obama received 71% of the  Hispanic vote.
> 
> Maher was discussing that if the 12,000,000 illegal immigrants in the  United States took a pathway to citizenship, and could vote, 71% would  equal 8,520,000 Democrats and 3,480,000 Republicans.  Obama beat Romney  by 3,000,000 votes in 2012.  This could mean that Democrats could  automatically win a national election before a candidate was even  nominated!
> 
> ...


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## auditor0007 (Jun 14, 2013)

Beachboy said:


> The actual link I need to open this thread is not yet available.  Last night on Bill Maher's real time it was pointed out that in 2012 President Obama received 71% of the Hispanic vote.
> 
> Maher was discussing that if the 12,000,000 illegal immigrants in the United States took a pathway to citizenship, and could vote, 71% would equal 8,520,000 Democrats and 3,480,000 Republicans.  Obama beat Romney by 3,000,000 votes in 2012.  This could mean that Democrats could automatically win a national election before a candidate was even nominated!
> 
> ...



Passing immigration reform with a path to citizenship for all the illegals will definitely help keep Obama in the White House for the next few decades.  I'm sure that thought is just killing Republicans.


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## Beachboy (Jun 14, 2013)

Beachboy said:


> The actual link I need to open   this thread is not yet available.  Last night on Bill Maher's real time   it was pointed out that in 2012 President Obama received 71% of the   Hispanic vote.
> 
> Maher was discussing that if the 12,000,000 illegal immigrants in the   United States took a pathway to citizenship, and could vote, 71% would   equal 8,520,000 Democrats and 3,480,000 Republicans.  Obama beat Romney   by 3,000,000 votes in 2012.  This could mean that Democrats could   automatically win a national election before a candidate was even   nominated!
> 
> ...





auditor0007 said:


> Passing immigration reform with a path to   citizenship for all the illegals will definitely help keep Obama in the   White House for the next few decades.  I'm sure that thought is just   killing Republicans.



Since Obama is only allowed two terms as President, and is in his second   term, it will probably be another Democrat that benefits from   12,000,000 illegal aliens getting the right to vote.

My concern is will the United States become a one party system?  For   years we Americans have envied other countys like Canada and the UK for   their coalition politics with many political partys.

I think you are correct about this bothering Republicans.  Imagine   Democrats knowing they have the General election won before they even   nominate a candidate?   In the end I am afraid that Immigration Reform   will fail because of Republican fears that it will cause them to lose   elections, and therefor become a truly minority party.   Remember, the   2012 election was more than a loss of the White House by Republicans.    It was a rejection of everything they stand for.  Americans do not like   giving tax breaks to the very wealthy, and they don't like being told   what morality is by a group of old, white, rich men.  This is the 21st   Century, and young voters want change, such as legalizing pot, NOW!  As   an independent, I actually feel a little sorry for the Republican  party,  they have  chased their moderates away, and few are listening to  them  at all.

The biggest losers will of course be the immigrants themselves, fruit   and vegetable growers, and produce shoppers, not to mention the American   taxpayers who will continue to be stuck with the bill for illegal   immigration.

Welcome to more Washington gridlock.


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## Grandma (Jun 15, 2013)

Damn shame so many people rush to post their OPs without factchecking first. Calendar checking would have been enough in this case.

Oh, ye of little IQ, understand that if the Amnesty Bill passes before midnight those affected will not be citizens the next day. Or the next week, the next month, the next year...

The plan is for the path to citizenship to take as long as 12 years. 

That would be 2025. 



Oh, and the bill _will_ pass, if not now, then no later than 2017. But I think it will pass sooner.


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## ABikerSailor (Jun 15, 2013)

Are we becoming a one party system?

Dunno............................but the GOP is giving it a hell of a try.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 15, 2013)

> Immigration Reform may mean 8,520,000 new Dem voters. Obama won by 3,000,000. votes.



So immigration reform legislation should be defeated so republicans can win future elections? 

Conservatives make this argument yet whine about the IRS and TPM. 

The irony of this, of course, is republicans will continue to lose the Hispanic vote for precisely their opposition to immigration reform, correctly perceived by Latinos as a desire by the right to keep Hispanics out of the country, and Hispanics in the country disenfranchised.


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## beagle9 (Jun 15, 2013)

ABikerSailor said:


> Are we becoming a one party system?
> 
> Dunno............................but the GOP is giving it a hell of a try.


Can you blame them, especially after what has happened with all of this big time attempt of a newly created obama world so far ?


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## beagle9 (Jun 15, 2013)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> > Immigration Reform may mean 8,520,000 new Dem voters. Obama won by 3,000,000. votes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What about the government trying to turn the responsibility over to the community organizer groups (outsourcing) in order to run the whole thing afterwards (i.e. to qualify these new out of the shadows people for what they will need, back ground checks, education levels, who are they and etc.) instead of government agencies like ICE doing this instead ? I heard this on the radio yesterday. The woman said that she feared this will politicize the whole thing, because these organizers are activist who will do everything they can to show that because of them and their beliefs, these people are helped now, and that will equate to lifetime democrats one way or the other is the whole goal in it by such a move. What about all this that I heard on the radio yesterday ? Is there any truth to all of this ? Then these activist community organizer groups will be able to get huge government funding for doing all of this work for the government. Wow! 

Republicans complain about the IRS, TPM (don't forget Benghazi), and now this ?  Well they complain because they are seeing a pattern in all of this, in which is directed by a government for political purposes mainly against them as their political foe, so instead of running the government for all in this nation who are American, while making sure that those whom come here and for whom are here visiting aren't here to hurt Americans, well this government has decided to use government power to attack it's political enemies within, and to try and seal the deal in it all afterwards for years & years to come. Who knew that the democrats were living in an America in which they figure hated them so badly, and so much so that they are acting in the ways that they are now, especially since gained power over these supposed enemies in which they are in constant battle with anymore ? Then they wonder why nothing will go right for them or why it is so hard to get anything done?  The disrupting of those who are in power, and for whom are determined to mainly destroy another while they have this power, is not something to be so surprised about now is there ?


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## sarahgop (Jun 15, 2013)

rubio wants to give democrats  total power.


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## ScienceRocks (Jun 15, 2013)

This bill passes we can count on becoming a full fledge socialist nation.

-These people will suck us dry
-These people will suck the government cock and never question anything.


This is just a fact.


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## rightwinger (Jun 15, 2013)

5 million Hispanic voters up for grabs


Shouldn't Republicans be more concerned with how they can convince them to vote Republican?


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## beagle9 (Jun 15, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> 5 million Hispanic voters up for grabs
> 
> 
> Shouldn't Republicans be more concerned with how they can convince them to vote Republican?


And how do they do that with the democrats controlling and sailing the ship ?


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## rightwinger (Jun 15, 2013)

beagle9 said:


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Jobs.....good paying jobs

Isn't that what Republicans are supposed to be good at?


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## beagle9 (Jun 15, 2013)

rightwinger said:


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Create "Jobs and good paying jobs at that eh ?  Now with a democrat administration hostile to their wealth, how do they feel comfortable about doing this you suppose?   So you think they (the repubs under Obama) are just going to invest in everything that the democrats hate now, and this in order to try and create these jobs for America somehow in such a hostile environment is just laughable when think about it.  Once they invest their money, the government quickly tries to target it, and then regulate it to death (forcing them out of business soon there after even) or the government is hostile to the types of investments in which they look to, and are for which has a good return for them on their investments, and in the process would pose to be a substantial or good job creator to boot as well (the pipe line for example), and so as normal they (the repubs) are always looking to invest wisely in these ways, and can you blame them ? A stalemate has come as a result of all the Obama rhetoric in his early attacks on them, so it's no wonder why anything isn't getting much better as a result of it all.


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## rightwinger (Jun 15, 2013)

beagle9 said:


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Damn......Republicans sure surrender easy

What ever happened to the Republican mantra of private industry instead of government jobs?  Aren't most Governors Republican?  Arent most statehouses in Republican hands?

Where are the jobs?  Get blacks and Hispanics good paying jobs and they will vote Republican forever


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## daveman (Jun 15, 2013)

Zona said:


> History will look back on republicans with shame.  Like what this country did to blacks, Japanese, Chinese, Indians etc.
> 
> You people are just shameful.



Let me ask you this:

Would you support granting the illegals that are here now permanent legal resident alien status?


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## daveman (Jun 15, 2013)

ABikerSailor said:


> Are we becoming a one party system?
> 
> Dunno............................but the GOP is giving it a hell of a try.


Indeed.  By becoming the second liberal party.


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## daveman (Jun 15, 2013)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> > Immigration Reform may mean 8,520,000 new Dem voters. Obama won by 3,000,000. votes.
> 
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> 
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If you have to lie to make your point, your point isn't worth making.

Very, very few people are against immigration.  Normal people are against ILLEGAL immigration.

Progs love it.


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## rightwinger (Jun 15, 2013)

daveman said:


> Zona said:
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> > History will look back on republicans with shame.  Like what this country did to blacks, Japanese, Chinese, Indians etc.
> ...



I sure would...

Give them worker status.  Get them paying taxes. Stop chasing them. 

Those that are hard working and good citizen/residents can apply for permanent status


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## daveman (Jun 15, 2013)

rightwinger said:


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## Katzndogz (Jun 15, 2013)

When historians look back on this time they will try to figure out why it is that the United States like all other great nations decided to commit suicide.  I


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## ABikerSailor (Jun 16, 2013)

rightwinger said:


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Actually....................it's what they're good at CAMPAIGNING on.

As far as doing anything to get good paying jobs to the citizens of this country?  Hasn't happened, because they've been too busy trying to abolish Obamacare (for the 37th time), making sure that gays can't marry, and oh yeah..........................working hard to make sure that women have to have babies, even if they've been raped or been a victim of incest.

Instead of "jobs, jobs, jobs", it's all been "abortion, Obamacare, and DOMA".


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## Moonglow (Jun 16, 2013)

ABikerSailor said:


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Nothing better than a good case of tunnel vision.


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## ABikerSailor (Jun 16, 2013)

Moonglow said:


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Tunnel vision is what the GOP is good at.  Have you heard anything about jobs lately?  Probably not, because it's all been about Benghazi, the IRS and the journalists who were being investigated (even though all 3 stories are bullshit).

Guess the GOP can't let a good "scandal" go to waste..............................


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## midcan5 (Jun 16, 2013)

The Republican Voting Qualification Test:

1. Are you going to vote republican?
2. Are you going to vote democratic? 

Please select one. The right to cast your ballot will be dependent on your selection.

Thank you for participating in the republican democracy test. 

"The tyranny of a prince in an oligarchy is not so dangerous to the public welfare as the apathy of a citizen in a democracy." Charles de Montesquieu


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## daveman (Jun 16, 2013)

midcan5 said:


> The Republican Voting Qualification Test:
> 
> 1. Are you going to vote republican?
> 2. Are you going to vote democratic?
> ...


...or you could just stop being a moron.

Your call.


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## rightwinger (Jun 16, 2013)

Why don't Hispanics vote Reqpublican?

Because they are lazy and looking for a handout

Way to win voters Republicans


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## Beachboy (Jun 16, 2013)

Grandma said:


> Damn shame so many people rush to post their OPs without factchecking first. Calendar checking would have been enough in this case.
> 
> Oh, ye of little IQ, understand that if the Amnesty Bill passes before midnight those affected will not be citizens the next day. Or the next week, the next month, the next year...
> 
> ...



I challenge your entire post.  Not a single fact/link, but you lock in a date of 2025.  And, your crystal ball says passage of the Dream Act by 2017?

There are quiet and powerful sources at work here.  That Republican woman U. S. Senator from Maine came out for the bill last week.  Why do you think that is?  Because Republicans do not want to be labeled anti-immigration to attract voters.  This deck is stacked.  Bill Maher said two weeks ago that he is doing a running tabulation of votes, and predicts it will fail by three votes in the Senate.  He even made a hundred dollar bet about it with an MSNBC contributor.

Looks like a smart move for politicians to keep their seats in gerrymandered districts while cutting off the flow over the border.  Do I personally support this, absolutely not.  Am I willing to give Democrats a blank check for all future elections, absolutely not.  I am an independent, and I have to tell you, when white people in my office are openly expressing concern about the influence of whites in a country we founded, there is trouble in River City.

​


----------



## Beachboy (Jun 16, 2013)

sarahgop said:


> rubio wants to give democrats  total power.



I looked at your post for quite some time thinking about what I know.  Let's see if I am on track here.  Rubio is a Cuban-American who seems to have a bright future in the Republican Party.  I can see, as many have posted here that Hispanics lean Democratic.  Obama pulled 71% of their vote.

This sounds like something out of a soap opera, but if you are saying that Marco Rubio is plant in the Republican Party who really wants Democrats to win?  That is one hell of a leap for me.  Rubio is very convincing as a Republican, and he is elected by a large Hispanic community in Florida.  So, apparently Hispanics are willing to cross party lines for him, and whites like him also.

There are still some Democrats I know who believe that Jimmy Carter was really a Republican whose function was to set the stage for Ronald Reagan.  The Carter ground work was so strong, Carter had the nomination tied up with delegates before State Conventions were even held.  That takes money, and Carter was no liberal.  Carter split the liberal vote in the primaries.

Could Rubio be the same kind of thing?  I don't know what to think.






Marco Rubio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rubio was born in Florida which means he could run for POTUS.​


----------



## Beachboy (Jun 16, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Why don't Hispanics vote Reqpublican?
> 
> Because they are lazy and looking for a handout
> 
> Way to win voters Republicans



I read some research before the last election that Immigration is not  the top issue among Hispanics.  Hispanic concerns are the same as the  electorate in general.  Economy, jobs, foreign relations etc.  This  makes sense to me because the Hispanic families I know personally  discuss these issues.

Also in accordance with research I saw, the further Mexicans get from  their Mexican roots, (in terms of time not distance), the fewer children  they have.  The reason given is that Mexican-American children have a  much greater chance of survival than Mexican children, and they realize  that quality of life takes precedence over procreation.

In conclusion, what I am trying to say is that Hispanics like  assimilating to America.  There is no difference between their loyalty  to their Hispanic origins than any other American.  Mexican-Americans  are no different than I am with my Irish/English/German heritage, but I  am American first.


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## AceRothstein (Jun 17, 2013)

Why do people feel the need to lie around here when something is easily found on the web?  Obama won the 2012 election by just shy of 5 million votes.


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## Beachboy (Jun 17, 2013)

AceRothstein said:


> Why do people feel the need to lie around here when something is easily found on the web?  Obama won the 2012 election by just shy of 5 million votes.



You are correct.  And, I think it is important that we quote the actual vote tally for the purposes of this thread.






I also think it is important to note that if every illegal alien had been able to vote in 2012 the tally may have looked more like this.

*Obama 72,525,851

Romney 63,197,000*

Which leaves an even bigger question in projecting results for the Presidential election of 2016 if the Dream Act becomes law.

Frankly, I think that question is already under discussion at the RNC and DNC. 
 Could the Democratic nominee in 2016 already have the election won before a candidate is even nominated? 
 Is America a one party system, OR could these be the events that splinter America into several parties?  
As an independent, I would like to see several parties chasing my vote.​


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## Sallow (Jun 17, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Rozman said:
> 
> 
> > I don't remember all the details as to when this happened.
> ...



Just wondering..what part of the Constitution allows that.


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## Beachboy (Jun 17, 2013)

Sallow said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Rozman said:
> ...



Maybe this link will help.  Voter Disfranchisement | American Civil Liberties Union


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## daveman (Jun 17, 2013)

Beachboy said:


> I read some research before the last election that Immigration is not  the top issue among Hispanics.



That's impossible.  White liberals have dictated that the only issue Hispanics care about is immigration.


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## rightwinger (Jun 17, 2013)

daveman said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> > I read some research before the last election that Immigration is not  the top issue among Hispanics.
> ...


Immigration is not the only issue...

There is jobs, not passing harassing legislation, respect of culture, acceptance of anti-Hispanic bigots and compassion for those less fortunate

Republicans fail at all


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## daveman (Jun 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Beachboy said:
> ...


Wrong.  White liberals have dictated that the only issue important to Hispanics is immigration.  Just like they've dictated the only issue important to women is birth control and abortion.

Get with the program.


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## rightwinger (Jun 17, 2013)

daveman said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Interesting how conservatives decide that Hispanics are mere pawns of white liberals. Republicans need to realize that conservatives are a major factor in driving away the Hispanic vote. Until they do, they will be an increasingly insignificant party


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## daveman (Jun 17, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


I'll ask again:

What are Hispanics' interests?  What are blacks' interests?  What are whites' interests?

Obviously, to the left, they're all different.  This is undeniable.  So don't look like a moron by denying it.


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## JakeStarkey (Jun 17, 2013)

Stuff the racialism, babby dave.


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## daveman (Jun 17, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> Stuff the racialism, babby dave.



Oh, eat shit, you lying little bastard.  If you had any honesty, you'd admit that your side -- the lefties -- is all about racialism.

Conservatives treat people as individuals.  You lefties are incapable of seeing people as individuals.


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## JakeStarkey (Jun 17, 2013)

My side is the side of the American mainstream, of which you are not a part, just a piece of crap bobbing in the wake of the far reactionary right.


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## rightwinger (Jun 18, 2013)

daveman said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Again, Conservatives try to sell the Bullshit....."We treat everyone the same"

America is not one size fits all, Conservatives have only one size and it is white, christian and middle class/rich

EVERYONE has different interests
The old have different interests than the young
The rich have different interests than the poor
Farmers have different interests than city folk
Women have different interests than men

Until Conservatives realize that they must address the values and interests outside of their small, small tent....they will continue to drive people away from the Republican party


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## JakeStarkey (Jun 18, 2013)

A consensus of right, left, and center, of sexes and orientation, of community and of class, etc., is what governs this country: not a small slice of it


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## rightwinger (Jun 18, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> A consensus of right, left, and center, of sexes and orientation, of community and of class, etc., is what governs this country: not a small slice of it



Moderates have always decided who runs this country. Lose the moderates, lose the country


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## Katzndogz (Jun 18, 2013)

Spy on the moderates, put them under surveillance, use the IRS as the KGB and you lose the moderates.


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## JakeStarkey (Jun 18, 2013)

Katzndogz said:


> Spy on the moderates, put them under surveillance, use the IRS as the KGB and you lose the moderates.



Only in katz world.  The admin is spying on the far right and the far left.


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## Beachboy (Jun 18, 2013)

Well, now you all have me afraid to post in a thread where I am the OP!

As most of you know I have been a liberal Democrat, a conservative Republican, and am now an independent.  I post the words of Winston Churchill every chance I get.  "If you are a conservative at age twenty, you have no heart.  If you are a liberal at age 50, you have no brain."

Permit me to offer this.  I believe liberals contribute to spiritual aspect of politics striving for fairness and opportunity for all.  I believe conservatives understand the realities of hard-ball politics, and recognize the threats to our nation from inside and outside our borders.  The threat conservatives see is real.  I need what both sides offer.

When a citizen loses a job through no fault of their own, I want to supply a TEMPORARY safety net, but not a lifestyle out of work forever.  If someone is unwilling to take responsibility for their own life, I am with the conservatives - kick them in the ass!  I believe we should spend way more money on the developmentally disabled and those with special needs.  Caregivers should make $30 an hour, not $10.  However when it comes to the healthy forget the hand-holding.  Teach them life's a bitch, and then you die.

Weather you agree with me or not please consider this, we need liberals and conservatives to keep what we call "America" working.  Frankly, I wish we had a half dozen political parties like other nations have.  Then maybe I could stop floating around in this indecisive never-never land of the independent voter.


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## ABikerSailor (Jun 19, 2013)

Katzndogz said:


> Spy on the moderates, put them under surveillance, use the IRS as the KGB and you lose the moderates.



Way to confuse the issue KrappyHogz.................it's not the IRS that runs the program called PRISM, it's the CIA.

You really don't know much about what's going on other than what Bachmann, Palin and all the other right wing nutjobs have told you, do you?


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## rightwinger (Jun 19, 2013)

New immigrants under this bill would not be eligible to vote for over ten years. Republicans are admitting that even ten years from now they have nothing to offer Hispanics


----------



## JakeStarkey (Jun 19, 2013)

Either we GOP offer something worthwhile or we will be in the minority for a long, long time.


----------



## Jimmy_Jam (Jun 19, 2013)

RE: the OP. If the concept here is that immigration reform is a tactic for Democrat electoral victory, wouldn't opposing immigration reform then be a tactic for Republican electoral victory? 

What a surprise. Yet again, partisan bullshit intrudes upon finding a real solution to a real problem.

YAY!


----------



## legaleagle_45 (Jun 19, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Why should someone be denied their right to vote because they've been convicted of a crime?



Because by committing a felony they have rejected the rules of our society and are henceforth excluded from active participation in same.



JoeB131 said:


> Especially if they've already completed their sentence?



Would it make any difference if their sentence was: "Ten years in prison plus you can never ever serve on a jury again or ever run for certain public offices or own a gun or engage in certain occupations such as teacher or lawyer"? 

Incarceration is not the only consequence of a felony conviction.


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## legaleagle_45 (Jun 19, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> Either we GOP offer something worthwhile or we will be in the minority for a long, long time.



You underestimate the ability of the Democratic Party to screw things up so badly that the electorate will vote republican


----------



## JakeStarkey (Jun 19, 2013)

I wish that were so, but the GOP screws it up even worse lately.  Look at the senatorial candidates we have been running as a single example.


----------



## Beachboy (Jun 19, 2013)

Hot off of NBC *today* is an explanation of what is going on with Immigration Reform.  On one side it is estimated by the government that $197 BILLION could be saved in the next five years by passing the legislation.

On the other side, John Boehner's Speaker-ship of the House could be lost he allows Immigration Reform to come to the floor of the U. S. House of Representatives.

This NBC video makes the *politics* of Immigration Reform easy to understand.  Looks like House of Representative members in districts without many Hispanics have the clout to stop immigration reform without damaging their electoral chances in 2014.  It is the old Washington two step.

*If you are really interested in Immigration Reform, this video will be very helpful.*  Frankly, I was looking forward to Immigration Reform, but was never clear on the specifics.  I do know that the key Republican position is SECURE THE BORDER FIRST.  Boehner called Democratic efforts in that area "laughable."  It does not look good for Immigration Reform in the near future.  Republicans plan to bury the issue until fall, when budget issues will take the center stage in Congress.  I would imagine President Obama is fuming with anger, he made some big promises to Hispanics before the 2012 election.  Hispanics appear tired of being used by the Democratic Party.

http://http://video.msnbc.msn.com/now-with-alex-wagner/52253698#52253978






It is looking like Republican Senator Marco Rubio's presidential 
chances are being crushed by his own Republican Party.  
Rubio is voting against the Immigration Bill he authored.
Does anyone else think this is just plain nuts?
 ​


----------



## JakeStarkey (Jun 19, 2013)

Gonna be the Hispanics storming the GOP Alamo congress in 2014.  Gonna be a slaughter if we don't get with changing demographics.  The far right is dying out as well as growing older while the minorities are younger and growing more numerous.  Follow the numbers, chumps.


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## Beachboy (Jun 19, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> Gonna be the Hispanics storming the GOP Alamo congress in 2014.  Gonna be a slaughter if we don't get with changing demographics.  The far right is dying out as well as growing older while the minorities are younger and growing more numerous.  Follow the numbers, chumps.



You really should look at the video in Post #78 above.  It could easily be another ten years before anything meaningful is done on Immigration Reform.  It would be worth your time to check out this NBC news clip.  Here it is again.

http://http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/...arge/public/2011/12/07/201609-marco-rubio.jpg

This changes the whole dynamic of Immigration Reform for me.  I really do not know what to think.  But, that is OK, I am an Indy, we often don't know what to think!​


----------



## JakeStarkey (Jun 19, 2013)

Either the GOP understands the demographic changes are undermining its continuing status as a power player or the end will happen in the next 12 years as it dies.


----------



## tjvh (Jun 19, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Wait a second, I thought Joe Arapio was wrong to target Hispanics as Illegals?
> 
> Are most Illegals Hispanic according to Bill Maher?



Stereotyping is ok when a liberal is doing the stereotyping... Haven't you heard?


----------



## Beachboy (Jun 19, 2013)

daveman said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



I did the OP on this thread because I am concerned about how this issue  will effect future elections.  In order to intelligently discuss this,  we need to find facts that we can all agree upon to facilitate  meaningful discussion.  I think you will be as surprised as I was on  what were the most important issues to Hispanics in the 2012 election.  Latino Voters in the 2012 Election | Pew Hispanic Center

*Top Issues for Hispanic Voters in 2012*

 For Hispanic voters, according to the national exit poll, 60%   identified the economy as the most important issue (of four listed)   facing the country today, virtually the same as the share (59%) of the   general electorate that identified the economy as the nations most   important issue. On the other three issues asked about, for Hispanic   voters, the economy was followed by health care (18%), the federal   budget deficit (11%) and foreign policy (6%).

 Throughout this election cycle, the issue of immigration has been an   important issue for Hispanics. In the national exit poll, voters were   asked about what should happen to unauthorized immigrants working in the   U.S. According to the national exit poll, 77% of Hispanic voters said   these immigrants should be offered a chance to apply for legal status   while 18% said these immigrants should be deported. Among all voters,   fewer than two-thirds (65%) said these immigrants should be offered a   chance to apply for legal status while 28% say they should be deported.






​


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## JakeStarkey (Jun 19, 2013)

The far right reactionaries do not give a damn about facts, merely their own hateful emotions about the issue.


----------



## rightwinger (Jun 19, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> The far right reactionaries do not give a damn about facts, merely their own hateful emotions about the issue.



The issue is that Hispanics have no incentive to vote for Republicans

Blaming the mainstream media and a lack of free stuff is not a solution


----------



## JakeStarkey (Jun 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > The far right reactionaries do not give a damn about facts, merely their own hateful emotions about the issue.
> ...



We have many GOP leaders and many of the mainstream trying to move in the right direction, and the deadweight reactionary far right is trying to pull the party under.

The wacks would rather suicide the party than give in.


----------



## Beachboy (Jun 20, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



Living in the southwestern United States issues between Hispanics and Anglos are always in the news.  Here is reaction to liberal Bill Maher that made this Californian quite nervous.  Does it matter if these are the views of a far right fringe group or the conservative leadership of the Republican Party?  The point is this video is offensive to just about everyone.

I guess the question I am left with after seeing this disgusting video is are the "whacks" taking down the Republican Party or is there a level of fear that is not showing up in surveys of the American people on the Immigration Issue?

Frankly, I do not like this video, I find it offensive, but there is a small part of me that wonders if there is some truth to it.  Which means this brand of "thinking," (and I use that term politely), slipping into my own mind?  Better I think to address it than to ignore it and let it spread quietly.  In the end I think Republicans will hurt themselves by putting utubes like this out there.  It does not represent the views of the American people, and there are polls to prove it.  I also do not think, (though I have no facts to prove it), that this represents the beliefs of the party of Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt.


​


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## JakeStarkey (Jun 20, 2013)

Just so, Beachboy.


----------



## Beachboy (Jun 20, 2013)

*The OP*

*Correction; *I am informed that the final vote left president Obama a winner by 5,000,000 not 3,000,000 votes.



Beachboy said:


> The actual link I need to open this thread is not yet available.  Last night on Bill Maher's real time it was pointed out that in 2012 President Obama received 71% of the Hispanic vote.
> 
> Maher was discussing that if the 12,000,000 illegal immigrants in the United States took a pathway to citizenship, and could vote, 71% would equal 8,520,000 Democrats and 3,480,000 Republicans.  Obama beat Romney by 3,000,000 votes in 2012.  This could mean that Democrats could automatically win a national election before a candidate was even nominated!
> 
> ...


----------



## daveman (Jun 20, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


You keep saying people have different interests, but refuse to say what they are.

What's the matter?  Haven't gotten those talking points yet?

Again, the left refuses to see people as individuals, as you just proved.


----------



## daveman (Jun 20, 2013)

Beachboy said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Interesting indeed.  Despite what the left claims, Hispanics seem to see issues about the same as everybody else.


----------



## Beachboy (Jun 20, 2013)

daveman said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Yes, and I think that is very important, I think politicians give us generalizations that reinforce negative stereotypes.


----------



## daveman (Jun 20, 2013)




----------



## rightwinger (Jun 21, 2013)

daveman said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Are you really such a simpleton that you can't accept that old people have different interests than young people?


----------



## JakeStarkey (Jun 21, 2013)

daveman, yes, is that Simple


----------



## daveman (Jun 21, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...





JakeStarkey said:


> daveman, yes, is that Simple



So what are they, you prog morons?  You keep insisting they're there -- but never get around to defining them.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Jun 21, 2013)

loony daveman davying around.  Until you are willing to communicate clearly and to the point, you will be treated as the clown you are imitating, Alex Jones.


----------



## Wry Catcher (Jun 21, 2013)

Katzndogz said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



[Did you really claim to be an attorney?]  For the purpose of incarceration crimes are classified as a Felony or a Misdemeanor - some crimes are wobbler's (meaning they can be filed as a felony or a misdemeanor).  Only felons can be sentenced to State Prison and the sentence must be for at least one year and one day.  Many felons are granted probation and as a condition of probation sentenced to some time in county jail (up to one year, though I've seen some offenders convicted of two felonies given probation and ordered to served one year on each count - so they end up with a two year CJ sentence).

Whether a person convicted of a crime and is incarcerated in a CJ can vote is up to the State.  Offenders in State Prison cannot vote, but when released on parole can vote, depending on the laws of the State in which they reside.


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## daveman (Jun 21, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> loony daveman davying around.  Until you are willing to communicate clearly and to the point, you will be treated as the clown you are imitating, Alex Jones.



Sooo...Fakey can't define what different groups' interests are...he just knows they have different interests.

Leftists just aren't very bright.


----------



## Beachboy (Jun 21, 2013)

*The OP*



Beachboy said:


> The actual link I need to open this thread is not yet available.  Last night on Bill Maher's real time it was pointed out that in 2012 President Obama received 71% of the Hispanic vote.
> 
> Maher was discussing that if the 12,000,000 illegal immigrants in the United States took a pathway to citizenship, and could vote, 71% would equal 8,520,000 Democrats and 3,480,000 Republicans.  Obama beat Romney by 3,000,000 votes in 2012.  This could mean that Democrats could automatically win a national election before a candidate was even nominated!
> 
> ...




The thing that disappoints me about this thread is that I was looking for someone from the left to acknowledge that giving U. S. citizehship to 12,000,000 illegal aliens is like FDR stacking the Supreme Court.  Where is the outrage at POSSIBLY turning the United States into a one party system?  After all the cries of 'fairness' we hear from the left, where are they on this issue?

The right is stuck in a tough spot.  If they allow 12,000,000 illegal aliens to become citizens they hurt their future chances to win a presidential election.  On the other hand if they fail to support a pathway to citizenship, they appear to have learned nothing about new ideas from Romney's loss.  I would like to hear more from conservatives on this if possible.

The end result seems to be 'behind the scenes deal making.'  I notice that no one is saying a word about Democrats who want to prevent illegals from having the right to vote.  The silence is deafening.

I predict some kind of watered down version of Immigration Reform could pass, and no one will like it.  If Immigration Reform fails, I don't think we will ever know exactly why.  $197,000,000 is the estimated first five year savings if Immigration Reform. It happens as Senator Rubio wrote in the bill.  Yet, Senator Rubio himself has "mysteriously" decided not to vote for his own bill!

In business we come up with the best solution we can based upon the information we have available at the time.  Congress has been unable to do this.  Congress is paid big bucks to solve the tough issues. What if next election we voted every incumbent out?  Congress is simply is not doing its job, and all of them should be fired.









.​


----------



## JakeStarkey (Jun 21, 2013)

Our GOP is determined to make America a Dem dominated country.  As I wrote elsewhere, "A very small portion of the Latino population is loving doing the We the Raza (people) thing and we are going to take our land back' shit, while a good 10% of the American white right are truly antiLatino.  Most of them are marginalized whites (and some blacks) who are terrified they will have to share what little they have with 'furriners.'"

If the Republicans cannot honestly reach out to where minorities live and breathe, the Democrats will win the battler.  Why?  They will have the numbers that will ungerrymander the southwest and south.


----------



## Jimmy_Jam (Jun 21, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> Our GOP is determined to make America a Dem dominated country.  As I wrote elsewhere, "A very small portion of the Latino population is loving doing the We the Raza (people) thing and we are going to take our land back' shit, while a good 10% of the American white right are truly antiLatino.  Most of them are marginalized whites (and some blacks) who are terrified they will have to share what little they have with 'furriners.'"
> 
> If the Republicans cannot honestly reach out to where minorities live and breathe, the Democrats will win the battler.  Why?  They will have the numbers that will ungerrymander the southwest and south.



Wouldn't it be nice if more Republicans realized this? 

While our representatives in Washington, and online discussion forums, and the media may make it _seem_ as if the country is horribly polarized, the majority of Americans are in reality more centrist in nature. The further reality is the the Democrats are simply playing a better game at seeming more centrist, while the Republicans are getting quite good at looking like the party of extremists. 

After the last election, we saw signs of the GOP realizing this, with people like Hannity at least making attempts to "evolve" (his words, not mine) on immigration. This kind of thing is needed. 

But, if you want to lose the nation irretrievably to a liberal agenda, by all means far-righters, keep it up.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 21, 2013)

Here is the underlying problem with immigration.  

It falls into the area of the GOP's dual nature. 

It is a party that does the bidding of the *rich*, but stays in power by manipulating the *Rubes*. 

The rich have their goal.   Find a way to make as much money as possible, and don't ever, ever share any of it with the Rubes.   Illegal aliens are made to order.  They work cheap. 

The Rubes are easily manipulated into thinking these folks are taking their jobs, but it's only because the rich offer them their jobs.  

We could end the illegal problem in a year.  Go after the rich who hire them with a vengence.


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## rightwinger (Jun 22, 2013)

daveman said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



To put it in terms a simpleton can understand

Old People are interested in Early Bird Specials and keeping kids off their lawn
Young People are interested in getting drunk and getting laid


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 22, 2013)

From a pure political standpoint, I don't get what the GOP gets out of this at all.  

They're obviously being guilted into it by the Mainstream Media.  

Beyond that, this is the same thing they did in 1986, and look how well that worked out.


----------



## daveman (Jun 22, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


That's nice.  Run along, stupid troll.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Jun 22, 2013)

That's you in the mirror you are talking to, daveman.


----------



## daveman (Jun 22, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> That's you in the mirror you are talking to, daveman.



Yet again, Fakey runs to the defense of his fellow far leftist.

When are you gonna drop the pretense, kid?  Even your fellow lefties -- and we all know how stupid they are -- aren't falling for it.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Jun 22, 2013)

What lefties, daveman.  You are wrong is what is your problem: Americans have different interests.  Son, that is a fact.


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## Surfer (Jun 22, 2013)

I do not support legalizing anyone who came here illegally and broke rules and laws to do so.

  I think the immigration system needs a drastic overhaul and enforcing our current laws would be a good start.


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## daveman (Jun 22, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> What lefties, daveman.  You are wrong is what is your problem: Americans have different interests.  Son, that is a fact.


The left insists monolithic groups of people have different interests -- every black person wants the same things as every other black person, etc.

I keep asking, but none of you lefties can define them.

So it looks like you're all full of shit, doesn't it?


----------



## Hyrcanus (Jun 22, 2013)

Well, looks like the GOP is going to have to work harder to convince people that their views are the right ones.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Jun 22, 2013)

> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > What lefties, daveman.  You are wrong is what is your problem: Americans have different interests.  Son, that is a fact.
> ...



No, son, that is what the reactionaries say: all groups and peoples should be treated as not having different interests.  

That is stupid.


----------



## Wry Catcher (Jun 22, 2013)

Surfer said:


> I do not support legalizing anyone who came here illegally and broke rules and laws to do so.
> 
> I think the immigration system needs a drastic overhaul and enforcing our current laws would be a good start.



The current administration is enforcing current law; the former one did not.  You may have not known that fact.


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## rightwinger (Jun 22, 2013)

beagle9 said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> > Rozman said:
> ...



Paragraphs are your friend


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## IlarMeilyr (Jun 22, 2013)

The Gang of Rape has already inserted some poison pill shit into the Senate bill.  I suppose it will manage to get through the Senate since almost none of them are serious about the job we sent them there to do.  

But it doesn't matter.  It's a rigged game now.

If it passes the Senate, it will likely get gutted in the House.  Then the Demoncrats will "blame" the GOP for hating them foreigners.  (It doesn't matter that it is a baldly dishonest claim; it's what they will do all the same.)

Alternatively, John Boehner could work up a good cry and somehow convince enough feckless Republicans in the House to get it through that body.  THEN, the fact that all the new citizens will be Demoncratics will work as well to satisfy the President and the liberal Democrats in D.C.

They figure they can't lose now no matter what happens.

Then, it's on to the ENVIRONMENT!

Jeeezus Christ.


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## daveman (Jun 22, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> > JakeStarkey said:
> >
> >
> > > What lefties, daveman.  You are wrong is what is your problem: Americans have different interests.  Son, that is a fact.
> ...



Look, you stupid fucking prog:

Conservatives say people should be treated as individuals.  You fucking retard leftists are _incapable_ of seeing people as individuals.

I'm getting mighty damn tired of your lies, boy.


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## daveman (Jun 22, 2013)

Wry Catcher said:


> Surfer said:
> 
> 
> > I do not support legalizing anyone who came here illegally and broke rules and laws to do so.
> ...


It's not a fact.  It's leftist horseshit.


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## JakeStarkey (Jun 22, 2013)

> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > > The left insists monolithic groups of people have different interests -- every black person wants the same things as every other black person, etc.
> ...



Simple believes individuals and groups don't have different interests.

Simples can be idiots.


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## daveman (Jun 22, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> What lefties, daveman.  You are wrong is what is your problem: Americans have different interests.  Son, that is a fact.


My interests as a white American (whatever the hell the left insists they are) and your interests as a white American may not coincide.

But you and other leftists insist they do.

People are individuals.  They each want different things.  Not THE WHITE wants this, THE BLACK wants that, THE ASIAN wants the other.

Individuals.

You idiot progs can't comprehend that.


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## JakeStarkey (Jun 22, 2013)

daveman is Simple, folks, and a liar.


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## daveman (Jun 22, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> > JakeStarkey said:
> >
> >
> > > No, son, that is what the reactionaries say: all groups and peoples should be treated as not having different interests.
> ...


You foolish child.  I'm telling you that individuals have different interests.

Why do you have to lie?

Oh, yeah -- because you're a lying sack of stupid prog shit who lies.


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## daveman (Jun 22, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> daveman is Simple, folks, and a liar.



You can't even come up with original insults, can you, boy?


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## JakeStarkey (Jun 22, 2013)

says Mr. Simple who says the same thing over and over and over


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## candycorn (Jun 22, 2013)

I thought it was 5 Million


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## daveman (Jun 23, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> says Mr. Simple who says the same thing over and over and over


Note for the audience:

Ladies and gentlemen, tonight the part of JakeStarkey will be played by Bobby Harris, a second grader from Akron, Ohio.


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## Euroconservativ (Jun 23, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...





In Europe, average centre-right conservatives favor universal health care, public education, government benefits for the poor and the unemployed, progressive taxation, public infrastructure investment, separation between church and state... Or at least they are not opposed to those things.

Is it enough to win over ethnic minorities?


_*According to a survey of 10,000 French voters conducted by the polling firm OpinionWay for the Paris-based newspaper Le Figaro, an extaordinary 93% of French Muslims voted for Hollande on May 6. By contrast, the poll shows that only 7% of French Muslims voted for the incumbent, Nicolas Sarkozy.*_

(Another myth: "immigrants are natural social conservatives". Well, everybody in France knew that gay marriage was part of Mr. Hollande&#8217;s Socialist platform)


_*In Denmark, Socialist Prime Minister Helle Thorning-Schmidt won the parliamentary election in September 2011 by a margin of just 8,500 votes. According to an opinion survey, 89.1% of Muslims said they would vote for Socialist or other left-wing parties.*_


_*Just 4 percent of black voters and 7 percent of asians said they identified with the Conservatives, according to the biggest political survey of ethnic minorities ever conducted in Britain. 55 percent of black voters and 43 percent of asians identify with the Labour Party. Mr Cameron&#8217;s Conservatives have already faced strong criticism for failing to connect with women voters.*_

(Women? Minorities? Cameron&#8217;s government has passed gay marriage and has not even tried to limit abortion)


_*Political scientist Andreas Wüst concluded that 65 percent favor the SPD, 17 percent the Green Party and only 9 percent the Christian Democratic Union (CDU). According to an opinion poll conducted by the pro-SPD Center for Turkish Studies in the Ruhr region city of Essen, 57 percent of Turkish-German voters voted for the SPD, 18 percent for the CDU and 17 percent for the Greens in the 2004 European parliament election.*_

(even if the SPD was pretty unpopular in 2004)


Etc, etc.


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## ABikerSailor (Jun 23, 2013)

daveman said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > What lefties, daveman.  You are wrong is what is your problem: Americans have different interests.  Son, that is a fact.
> ...



A quick couple of questions........................if you say that different things are allowed, then why don't the white people want to allow gay marriage (even if they've see it work pretty well for the military)?

Another quick question..................if things are "allowed" then why can't women have abortions (especially when they feel that they don't have the money to raise the child properly), and even more so................why can't they have access to birth control so they don't have to get abortions?

Sorry...................but the GOP has finally gone fascist.  Only question is, can we prevent this country from being Nazis before the next election?


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## JakeStarkey (Jun 23, 2013)

Most of the GOP is not fascist.

Stupid statement.

But a minority is idiot reactionary, and we do deal with those fools every day.

We are determined they will not inflict us with a Santorum-esque freak in 2016 as our candidate.


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## Hyrcanus (Jun 23, 2013)

Once they all become citizens, and some of them won't, they won't be beholden to the Democrats.  They can vote for anyone they like.

The GOP will just have to try to convince them that their ideas are the best.


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## rightwinger (Jun 23, 2013)

Hyrcanus said:


> Once they all become citizens, and some of them won't, they won't be beholden to the Democrats.  They can vote for anyone they like.
> 
> The GOP will just have to try to convince them that their ideas are the best.



Not only that, but the GOP has ten years before the first new citizens can vote. You would think they would use that time to execute legislation that would win over the new voters


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## daveman (Jun 23, 2013)

ABikerSailor said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...


Ummmm...what?  Are you saying all white people oppose gay marriage, and that gay marriage is allowed in the military?  


ABikerSailor said:


> Another quick question..................if things are "allowed" then why can't women have abortions (especially when they feel that they don't have the money to raise the child properly), and even more so................why can't they have access to birth control so they don't have to get abortions?


Everyone has access to birth control  To claim otherwise is asinine.

Of course, like all leftists, you forget there is one 100% effective means of birth control:

Don't have sex.  

Simple, huh?  If you're not prepared to deal with the consequences of an action, don't perform the action.


ABikerSailor said:


> Sorry...................but the GOP has finally gone fascist.


Sorry...but you're drunk.


ABikerSailor said:


> Only question is, can we prevent this country from being Nazis before the next election?


That's what a lot of conservatives are wondering.


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## JakeStarkey (Jun 23, 2013)

The idiotic reactionary keeps lumping everyone who disagrees with him as "liberals".

Amazing.  One tune band.


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## daveman (Jun 23, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> Hyrcanus said:
> 
> 
> > Once they all become citizens, and some of them won't, they won't be beholden to the Democrats.  They can vote for anyone they like.
> ...


That's gonna be tough.  The Dems are old pros at using tax dollars to buy votes.  That's pretty much the only purpose of everything they do.


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## daveman (Jun 23, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> The idiotic reactionary keeps lumping everyone who disagrees with him as "liberals".


No, I say everyone who espouses liberal ideas is a liberal.

You take that personally.  I wonder why...?


JakeStarkey said:


> Amazing.  One tune band.



US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum - Search Results

Search: Keyword(s): *reactionary* ; Posts Made By: *JakeStarkey*

Showing results 1 to 25 of *498*


I believe you were saying something stupid and hypocritical, boy?


PREDICTION:  Fakey will now search for the number of times I've used the word "liberal".


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## JakeStarkey (Jun 23, 2013)

daveman said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Hyrcanus said:
> ...



And we did not buy big business, senior citizens, and the educational industry with GOP tax dollars, daveman?


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## rightwinger (Jun 23, 2013)

daveman said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Hyrcanus said:
> ...



Why are Republicans such quitters?

Get Hispanics good paying jobs and they will vote Republican forever

Unfortunately, Republicans only want them to clean house and mow their lawns


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## JakeStarkey (Jun 23, 2013)

Not so, RW, but many of our GOP are afraid of something they have nothing to be afraid of.


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## daveman (Jun 23, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



You didn't, because you're not GOP, Prog Boi.  Run along now.


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## daveman (Jun 23, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Looks like Dems hire them, too:

https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1iKf3jb-gwnC-Yuez-AgsR3AFSfj8rO2eKyuHLvv7tZI&hl=en

Video: Report: Pelosi hired illegal immigrants for Napa Valley vineyard(?) « Hot Air

Dem Sen. Bob Menendez Employed Illegal Immigrant Registered As A Sex Offender, DHS Told Federal Agents Not To Arrest Him Until After Election Day? | Weasel Zippers

And let's not forget Nannygate -- two of Clinton's USAG nominations hired illegals.

So you can stop pretending only Republicans hire illegals.


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## Beachboy (Jun 23, 2013)

I would like to make a point here.  As sophisticated as some would like to think the world is, it is still a jungle out there.  Unlike the movies, the nice guy does not get the girl, and ride off into the Sunset.

America has been at war for one reason or another since we began.  Our founding documents have been a public statement od what we are striving to do.  But, we have serious enemies out there that want to bring us down.  Perhaps from jealously, or perhaps for some mistake that we have made.

I think it is unfair to attack the government or the military for trying to protect America.  It appears to me that those citizens who attack the country, are the very people enjoying the benefits of a country soldiers died to protect.  I am looking at the liberal whiners here.

There is no way the founding fathers could have predicted terrorism like 9/11 or the Boston Marathon bombings.  Remember the Second Amendment was written when single bullet muskets were in use, not weapons with automatic clips and 30 rounds.

The gun owners are going to have to take a solution to the problem seriously, otherwise people like me are simply going to vote to take guns away.  You made yur bed.  Sandy Hook was real!  As we as a nation make the effort to reconcile our law, technology, and political attitudes while important problems remain unresolved.

As an independent voter, I may not know what the solution is here, but the best decisions need to be made based upon the information and experience we currently have, not party ideology.

As to the border, I am more interested in keeping terrorists out than anything else.  I would like to see the drug cartels crushed.  And, I would like to see pot legal for the relief taxpayers seek.  Migrant workers, corporations, and big labor worked out a plan satisfactory to them all months ago.  I would hate to see that fail.  

The Federal Government is concerned that 1/3 of our population suffers from obesity, (which just got classified as a disease last week).  Fresh fruits and vegetables are part of the obesity solution.  Those prices are high enough without causing them to go up.

All this political bickering needs to be turned into problem solving.  If we solve a problem incorrectly, we can change it.  I throw up my hands in disgust.


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## Beachboy (Jun 23, 2013)

*The OP*



Beachboy said:


> The actual link I need to open  this thread is not yet available.  Last night on Bill Maher's real time  it was pointed out that in 2012 President Obama received 71% of the  Hispanic vote.
> 
> Maher was discussing that if the 12,000,000 illegal immigrants in the  United States took a pathway to citizenship, and could vote, 71% would  equal 8,520,000 Democrats and 3,480,000 Republicans.  Obama beat Romney  by 3,000,000 votes in 2012.  This could mean that Democrats could  automatically win a national election before a candidate was even  nominated!
> 
> ...


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## rightwinger (Jun 23, 2013)

daveman said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Imagine that......

Now if the Republicans would offer up good paying jobs they would not have to vote Democrat would they?


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## Beachboy (Jun 23, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



I have long believed that we do not have an employment problem on this planet, we have an overpopulation problem.  As long as countries and religious groups insist on reproducing five or six children into lives of poverty this problem will go on.  I resent it when a family of seven loses the bread winner, and I have to pick up the tab.

Frankly, I think we should change the income tax deduction for those who have more than two children, be ended.  We will never have enough living wage employment for everyone.

Do I feel sorry for the children of poverty? You bet, and I do contribute.  I feel for those kids.  Only recently Brazil started teaching birth control in their schools, like 100 years too late.  I think we should economically  reward countries that implement population controls, and punish those who do not.  I respect the Chinese for their bold steps in birth control, even though their solution runs very much against my personal views.  At least they identified a problem, and are trying to solve it.  Better than doing nothing.

I just don't see why I should have to pay because some parents have children irresponsibly.






They made their bed, and now they will have to lie in it.  
Send them food, they will need twice as much next year.
We definitely don't want this in the United States. 
Truly sorry, but they are on their own.​


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## daveman (Jun 23, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Gonna be tough.  Why would someone work for a living when Democrats will give them free money and benefits to vote Democrat?

Calif. working to put illegals under Obamacare coverage - BizPac Review

Judicial Watch Uncovers USDA Records Sponsoring U.S. Food Stamp Program for Illegal Aliens | Judicial Watch

Most Illegal Immigrant Families Collect Welfare | Judicial Watch


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## Beachboy (Jun 23, 2013)

daveman said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



As an independent voter, once a Repub and a Dem, I have always believed the Democratic view on welfare has been overstated.  Most Dems believe in a temporary safety net for all citizens.  Problem is the wording of the legislation is so confusing, government agenciew have never been quite sure what they should be doing.  I blame Congress.  I believe that if you can work, you should, even if "tough love" is the way we have to force some to work.

At the same time I will speak up for the disabled, and developmentally disabled.  Caregivers make about $10 an hour, so you be the judge of the quality of care being given.







If we really care we should pay caregivers $30 an hour, 
and only get the best professional people.​


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## rightwinger (Jun 23, 2013)

daveman said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



You just don't get it daveman...

It is statements like you just made that ensure Hispanics will never vote Republcan


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## daveman (Jun 23, 2013)

Beachboy said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Overstated?  No.

The Democrats' "War on Poverty" was never designed to eradicate poverty.  It was callously designed to keep people dependent on government assistance, with Democrats promising just a little bit more, and scaring the poor into reliably pulling the D lever by charging that "Repubicans want to take away your monthly checks!!"

It's been noting but a vote-buying scheme.  Clearly.


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## daveman (Jun 23, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Never?  

The Republican National Hispanic Assembly

Hispanic Republicans of Texas

Colorado Hispanic Republicans

List of Latino Republicans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


You need to tell those folks that you, a white liberal, has decreed that they're not allowed vote Republican.  

The racism and arrogance of the left is boundless.


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## JakeStarkey (Jun 23, 2013)

daveman said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Your not sane.  Answer the question, daveman: does the GOP buy off voting constituencies just like the Dems?


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## daveman (Jun 23, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...


Oh, stamp your feet and pout some more, child.


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## JakeStarkey (Jun 23, 2013)

In other words, child, yes, you agree with me: both parties buy votes.


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## IlarMeilyr (Jun 23, 2013)

Fakey babbles but can only manage to burp out one or two roughly word-sounding guttural sounds.  

CONSIDER Fakey's "ANALYSIS" of *any* opposition to the work of the Gang of Rape:


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## Euroconservativ (Jun 24, 2013)

Low-skilled mass immigration and lack of assimilation means the end of conservatism.


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## ABikerSailor (Jun 25, 2013)

Actually, the end of conservatism is coming around because of the internet (people can actually look up what is happening and do), and because the racist old white people are dying off and being replaced by those who actually think for themselves.

Sorry, but the GOP is gonna go the way of the Whigs................


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## rightwinger (Jun 25, 2013)

ABikerSailor said:


> Actually, the end of conservatism is coming around because of the internet (people can actually look up what is happening and do), and because the racist old white people are dying off and being replaced by those who actually think for themselves.
> 
> Sorry, but the GOP is gonna go the way of the Whigs................



No longer Grand, now just the Old Party


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## ABikerSailor (Jun 25, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, the end of conservatism is coming around because of the internet (people can actually look up what is happening and do), and because the racist old white people are dying off and being replaced by those who actually think for themselves.
> ...



Actually..................I call them the Greedy Odd People....................

Wanna talk about corporations being people?

Until a corporation can fight, and defend this country, I'm gonna say they're not human.


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## JakeStarkey (Jun 25, 2013)

> Oh, stamp your feet and pout some more, child.


He has already said that both parties do, but keeps yelling that everyone to the left of Goldwater are commies.


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## daveman (Jun 25, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> > Oh, stamp your feet and pout some more, child.
> 
> 
> He has already said that both parties do, but keeps yelling that everyone to the left of Goldwater are commies.



More lies from the totalitarian progressive.


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## JakeStarkey (Jun 25, 2013)

daveman said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > > Oh, stamp your feet and pout some more, child.
> ...



Says the liar.  Now pout, child, some more.


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## beagle9 (Jun 26, 2013)

Euroconservativ said:


> Low-skilled mass immigration and lack of assimilation means the end of conservatism.


And it will be the end of prosperity and freedom for individualism in this nation as we have known it, just as it will come next and/or more and more we will have to be controlled big time by the government whom will be ever so glad to accommodate our demise as we go forward now.  This is all due to these very things in which you speak, so this is somehow a good thing in peoples minds now ? How is it that people can't seem to see the forest for the tree's anymore or smell the sent and/or stench of irreversible change in the air anymore ?


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## ABikerSailor (Jun 27, 2013)

Where did that little whiny ass idiot known as BitchBoi go?

I mean..................he started this thread, why is he so scared to comment?


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## JakeStarkey (Jun 27, 2013)

beagle9 said:


> Euroconservativ said:
> 
> 
> > Low-skilled mass immigration and lack of assimilation means the end of conservatism.
> ...



Not at all.


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## daveman (Jun 27, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



I don't have to lie, boy.  Everything I say about you is backed up by your own words.

Don't like it?

Quit lying.

But then you can't, can you?


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## JakeStarkey (Jun 27, 2013)

daveman said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Links?  Didn't think so.  How is your conspiracy plotting going to break up a We the Government meeting?


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## Crackerjaxon (Jun 28, 2013)

There is no reason to believe that Hispanics will continue to vote democratic.  I know the dems are having orgasms believing they can work their identity politics magic on new immigrants, but they should take Thurber's advice and not count their boobies until they are hatched.  

People from south of the border are largely Roman Catholic, family-oriented and conservative in nature.  

Dems should be careful what they ask for.


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## JakeStarkey (Jun 28, 2013)

Crackerjaxon is imitating an ostrich.


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## Katzndogz (Jun 28, 2013)

The new hispanic Dem voters will kill off the old black Dem voters so it will end up even.


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## JakeStarkey (Jun 28, 2013)

Katz even now can lower the bar by 7" with one post.  We will be digging a hole shortly to see just how low he can go.


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## daveman (Jun 28, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...


Oh, look:  Comrade Fakey again making spurious charges that he can't back up.

You Democrats are good at that, aren't you?


----------

