# Zimmerman "beat up" according to treating physician after the shooting



## Gadawg73 (May 15, 2012)

"broken nose, 2 black eyes and lacerations to the back of his head"
According to discovery documents provided by the defendant to the prosecution.
OH NO. 
Facts sure are a bitch.


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## SniperFire (May 15, 2012)

Big black dude beat the crap out of him.


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## Truthseeker420 (May 15, 2012)

sorry they have pictures of him, Good luck with that though...


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## LoneLaugher (May 15, 2012)

What do Martin's discovery documents say about his condition?


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## Lakhota (May 15, 2012)

REPORT: FBI May Charge George Zimmerman With Hate Crime, Could Face Death Penalty | ThinkProgress


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## Gadawg73 (May 15, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> REPORT: FBI May Charge George Zimmerman With Hate Crime, Could Face Death Penalty | ThinkProgress



News Flash for Dumb Asses:
Even if there were hate charges this was not a Federal crime.


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## Gadawg73 (May 15, 2012)

LoneLaugher said:


> What do Martin's discovery documents say about his condition?



"broken nose, 2 black eyes and lacerations to the back of the head"
"Patient was beaten up"


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## Gadawg73 (May 15, 2012)

Truthseeker420 said:


> sorry they have pictures of him, Good luck with that though...



"they"
The police.
All of the pictures depict 2 black eyes, a broken nose and lacerations to the back of the head. 
Facts are a real bitch.


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## Lakhota (May 15, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> Lakhota said:
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> > REPORT: FBI May Charge George Zimmerman With Hate Crime, Could Face Death Penalty | ThinkProgress
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IF it is determined to be a "hate crime", then yes it is.

Trayvon was harmlessly minding his own business.  Zimmerman stalked him.  Police dispatcher said not to follow.  Zimmerman, armed, continued to stalk him.  Trayvon, unarmed, ends up dead.  It's irrelevant how many marks Zimmerman may have had.  Trayvon had every right to stand his ground and protect himself from an armed stalker.  I hope Zimmerman gets the maximum sentence just based on the public information already available.


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## bucs90 (May 15, 2012)

Zimmerman update

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http://news.yahoo.com/abc-news-exclu...opstories.html

ABC News Exclusive: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations After Trayvon Martin Shooting
 By MATT GUTMAN and SENI TIENABESO | ABC News

A medical report compiled by the family physician of accused Trayvon Martin murderer George Zimmerman and obtained exclusively by ABC News found that Zimmerman was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation.
 Zimmerman faces a second degree murder charge for the Feb. 26 shooting that left the unarmed 17-year-old high school junior dead. Zimmerman has claimed self defense in what he described as a life and death struggle that Martin initiated by accosting him, punching him in the face, then repeatedly bashing his head into the pavement.
 Also today, a trove of documents are being examined by lawyers for both the defense and prosecution as part of discovery in Zimmerman's trial -- including 67 CDs worth of documents, video of Martin on the night of the shooting, his autopsy report and videos of Zimmerman's questioning by police.
 Zimmerman's three-page medical report is included in those documents that the defense could use as evidence.
 The morning after the shooting, on Feb. 27, Zimmerman sought treatment at the offices of a general physician at a family practice near Sanford, Fla. The doctor notes Zimmerman sought an appointment to get legal clearance to return to work.
 The record shows that Zimmerman also suffered bruising in the upper lip and cheek and lower back pain. The two lacerations on the back of his head, one of them nearly an inch long, the other about a quarter-inch long, were first revealed in photos obtained exclusively by ABC News last month.
 But the report also shows Zimmerman declined hospitalization the night of the shooting, and then declined the advice of his doctor to make a follow-up appointment with an ear nose and throat doctor.
 In addition to his physical injuries, Zimmerman complained of stress and "occasional nausea when thinking about the violence." But he was not diagnosed with a concussion. The doctor noted that it was "imperative" that Zimmerman "be seen with [sic] his psychologist for evaluation."
 According to the report, prior to the shooting Zimmerman had been prescribed Adderall and Temazepam, medications that can cause side effects such as agitation and mood swings, but in fewer than 10 percent of patients.
 A neighbor told ABC News that the day after the shooting he saw Zimmerman as he spoke to officers outside his home. He too recalled seeing black eyes and significant swelling -- as well as a bandage over his nose.
 Moments after the shooting Zimmerman told eyewitnesses he shot Martin in self defense. He later told officers his head was being pounded into the pavement and that he feared for his life, but that it was only when Martin seemed to reach for the gun wedges in his waistband that Zimmerman drew his weapon and fired directly into Martin's chest -- killing him.
 The medical notes may bolster Zimmerman's claim that he acted in self-defense because he was being attacked. However, the prosecution contends that Zimmerman instigated the confrontation after profiling the teen, who was walking home after buying skittles and ice tea. They prosecution says Martin was breaking no laws and was not disturbing anyone as he walked back to his father's girlfriend's home.
 Zimmerman was granted a $150,000 bail and has since been in deep hiding since his April 20 bail hearing.


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## bucs90 (May 15, 2012)

not guilty. riots coming. lock n load.


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## Lakhota (May 15, 2012)

Sounds like Trayvon did a good job of defending himself - until his stalker shot him.


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## Charles_Main (May 15, 2012)

Truthseeker420 said:


> sorry they have pictures of him, Good luck with that though...



and you can assertain his Injuries better from Some Photos than the Physician That Treated him can?

You are a fucking idiot that believes what he wants to believe. Your Masters in the Liberals press have tried to sell this as a Race Motivated attack since day one, and you bought it hook line and Sinker.

Problem is all the Facts go against what you think.

Including these. 

The Man was Clearly injured, which backs up his Claims that he was Defending himself.

You just don't want to hear it.


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## Charles_Main (May 15, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> Sounds like Trayvon did a good job of defending himself - until his stalker shot him.



ROFLMAO

Yep just ignore all the Facts and Buy the Koolaid.

What a pathetic Fool


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## bucs90 (May 15, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> Sounds like Trayvon did a good job of defending himself - until his stalker shot him.



Trayvon got his street cred/pride/feelings hurt. That was rude, maybe even racist, of Zman. 

HOWEVER...it doesn't give Trayvon a license to attack Zman, and possibly assault him to a degree it causes great bodily injury and/or death. When he crossed the line, Zman had a right to shoot him. He did. Which is why he'll be found not guilty.


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## Gadawg73 (May 15, 2012)

Lakhota said:


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No, the murder charges are a state crime and there is no way you can impose the death penalty in a Federal hate crime case if the murder charges are a state charge.
Been there, done that, did not want the T shirt.
You have no evidence of a hate crime anyway so no charges will be brought.
You DO require evidence, DON'T YOU?


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## Lakhota (May 15, 2012)

bucs90 said:


> not guilty. riots coming. lock n load.



You retarded Bubbas amaze me.  This country has some really sick fucking people.







Trayvon Martin hoodie gun targets reportedly sell out


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## Truthseeker420 (May 15, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


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What pics:

Mugshots:












[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxvfD4BCmN8]Video shows George Zimmerman in handcuffs but no blood after Trayvon Martin shooting (3/28/2012) - YouTube[/ame]


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## bucs90 (May 15, 2012)

Lakhota said:


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I bet that hoodie image would depict far more profiles of an armed robber or prowler than not. Most people intent on crime wear dark clothing, often with a hat or hood to hide from cameras. Sorry, but true. Criminals dont wear neon green Oregon Ducks t shirts with no hat to rob and hurt people.


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## LoneLaugher (May 15, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


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Try again.


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## Lakhota (May 15, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


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I see you're from Georgia, so I'll cut you some slack.  Just READ the link I provided before you appear any dumber regarding federal hate crimes.


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## Lakhota (May 15, 2012)

bucs90 said:


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It was raining, and he had every right to have his hood up.


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## Gadawg73 (May 15, 2012)

Truthseeker420 said:


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Really hate to make you look really stupid there Moe but the photos you post are 7 WEEKS after the shooting WHEN ZIMMERMAN WAS BOOKED.
The fact you didn't know Zimmerman WAS NOT ARRESTED AFTER THE SHOOTING thus no photos were taken makes you appear to be a dumb ass. 
You are not after the truth. You are not smart enough to research any of the facts. 
Go back to something you know something about because it is not this subject.


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## Gadawg73 (May 15, 2012)

Lakhota said:


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I am a POST trained detective you fool. 30 years licensed in Georgia. 
This is not a Federal hate crime case and never will be one either.
Read the statute and after 30 years on the streets like I have get back to me.


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## thereisnospoon (May 15, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> "broken nose, 2 black eyes and lacerations to the back of his head"
> According to discovery documents provided by the defendant to the prosecution.
> OH NO.
> Facts sure are a bitch.



Notice how this case has disappeared from the public eye.
I think the prosecution caved to pressure and the fear of mob rule.
The prosecution will NOT get a murder conviction. 
The race baiters and the lib news media screwed the prosecution out of any chance of a conviction.


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## Gadawg73 (May 15, 2012)

LoneLaugher said:


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The State does not provide discovery documents to the state.
Know the law of criminal procedure and get back to us.


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## Lakhota (May 15, 2012)

Besides, Zimmerman was not supposed to be armed while on watch.



> In response to an April 18 letter: (Accused Trayvon Martin shooter George) Zimmerman belonged to a neighborhood watch, which are not suppose to carry a weapon when on the watch. He also was told by 911 to not pursue the young man. He did.
> 
> Now think about this. Zimmerman followed Trayvon for several minutes. Now think about this.
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> ...



Zimmerman should have listened to dispatcher advice | The Asheville Citizen-Times | citizen-times.com


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## thereisnospoon (May 15, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> REPORT: FBI May Charge George Zimmerman With Hate Crime, Could Face Death Penalty | ThinkProgress



Think progress has no credibility. I cannot believe any person with two functioning brain cells would reference this crap site.


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## Gadawg73 (May 15, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


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Of course they won't and you have it pegged right.
As I have stated 4 dozen times from the start of this on day one here:
This is a manslaughter case and I would have charged him with voluntary manslaughter. Let him plea to involuntary with 10 years with 1-3 to serve. 
He walks on the murder charge because how can the state prove INTENT TO KILL?
I have investigated hundreds of murder cases. This one is a blown deal with the 2nd degree murder charge. Especially with the Stand My Ground Law which I oppose.
But it is THE LAW.


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## Gadawg73 (May 15, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> Besides, Zimmerman was not supposed to be armed while on watch.
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Shoulda, coulda, woulda.
Media BS all you have?


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## Duped (May 15, 2012)

Dumb ass Trayvon bit off more than what he could handle. If I have a gun on me, and someone attacks me - bang bang!  If he thought someone was stalking him, he should of called the police.


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## tinydancer (May 15, 2012)

LoneLaugher said:


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Are you calling the Doctor who issued the document a liar?


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## thereisnospoon (May 15, 2012)

Lakhota said:


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So  you were a witness,  because apparently you know all of the facts, you should come forward and offer a statement.


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## American Horse (May 15, 2012)

Lakhota said:


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What you just posted is your version of the public information; thats why there will be a trial and he will go free - meaning; not go to prison.


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## LoneLaugher (May 15, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


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Don't want to talk about Martin's condition, do ya?


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## Lakhota (May 15, 2012)

American Horse said:


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You may be right.  After all, it is FLORIDA.


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## Ariux (May 15, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> Zimmerman, armed, continued to stalk him.  Trayvon, unarmed, ends up dead.  It's irrelevant how many marks Zimmerman may have had.



Thanks for the racist shithead version of events.

1) Zimmerman follows Trayvon.
2) ?
3) Trayvon is dead.

Sorry boy, Zimmerman will be acquitted.  He'll sell his story and make a million dollars.


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## Lakhota (May 15, 2012)

Ariux said:


> Lakhota said:
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Well, with all those RED badges, you must be right.


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## thereisnospoon (May 15, 2012)

Charles_Main said:


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Lakhota's racism is blatant here.


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## thereisnospoon (May 15, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> Besides, Zimmerman was not supposed to be armed while on watch.
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Posting an opinion piece and trying to pass it off as news, especially from a liberal newspaper in a very leftist city makes you look like an ass. SUCCESS!
Florida law permits ordinary citizens the right to bear arms and to use their weapon if they reasonably believe their life is in danger. 
Don't like it? Move to fucking England.


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## Lakhota (May 15, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


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Why do you homegrown terrorists always want others to move?


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## Ariux (May 15, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> Well, with all those RED badges, you must be right.



Red badges are for meaningful expressions of truth.


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## thereisnospoon (May 15, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


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Question; What is your objection to "stand my ground"? That question in the context of another law which requires the potential victim to flee, but use deadly force only as a last resort.
Personally I think the law should be written with basic human rights in mind. That as a crime victim, I should not have to suffer physical injury before making a move to prevent potential death. Get the crook before he gets me.
The courts or the law books cannot stop a crook with evil intentions.


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## Missourian (May 15, 2012)

The liberals are invested in their anti-self defense narrative.


When Zimmerman is acquitted they will claim the jury was rigged,  the jury was racist,  whatever Obama like excuses they think might be believable.

Bucs is right,  riots on the horizon.  

If we're lucky,  the acquittal will come at the same time Obama is defeated...get all the riots out of the way at the same time.


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## rdean (May 15, 2012)

That child "stood his ground" after being chased, and was murdered in cold blood.  True Story.


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## Lakhota (May 15, 2012)

IF the FBI charges Zimmerman with a federal hate crime - then Zimmerman is facing a whole new ballgame.


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## Ariux (May 15, 2012)

rdean said:


> That child "stood his ground" after being chased, and was murdered in cold blood.  True Story.



You call a 6'3" self-described no-limit-nigga a child.

You say he stood his ground, when he had time to be a mile away.

You say Trayvon was murdered in cold blood.  On that point, I suspect you're right.  I never really thought that Afros were warm-blooded mammals.  Probably some sort of ape-like reptile.  I'm for animal rights.  But, shooting one of them isn't murder, in the moral sense, no matter the circumstances.  And, I think we'd have more luck getting chimpanzees to integrate into society as civilized members.


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## BreezeWood (May 15, 2012)

> Trayvon Martin Witness Says Sanford Police Ignored Her [Video] | Click here for latest music news (full color articles)
> 
> Welch: Cutcher believes whatever confrontation there was it ended before they got to her backyard and she believes Zimmerman continued to chase Martin as he tried to get home.



*and she believes Zimmerman continued to chase Martin as he tried to get home.*

a witness - the "Killing" occurred in her back yard.


Was it Zimmerman screaming "Help Me" with a gun in his belt ???

the same guy who had $200,000.00 but still let his parents take out a second mortgage to pay for his bail -


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## tinydancer (May 15, 2012)

Trayvon had bloody knuckles.

* WTFV reported:

    WFTV has confirmed that autopsy results show 17-year-old Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles when he died.

    The information could support George Zimmerman&#8217;s claim that Martin beat him up before Zimmerman shot and killed him.

    The autopsy results come as Zimmerman&#8217;s attorney, Mark O&#8217;Mara continues to go over other evidence in the case.

    O&#8217;Mara wouldn&#8217;t comment on the autopsy evidence, but WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer said it&#8217;s better for the defense than it is for the prosecution.

    WFTV has learned that the medical examiner found two injuries on Martin&#8217;s body: The fatal gunshot wound and broken skin on his knuckles.

Al Sharpton was unavailable for comment.*

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/


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## Lakhota (May 15, 2012)

tinydancer said:


> Trayvon had bloody knuckles.
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Well, I'm happy to hear that this unarmed kid got in a few licks before his armed stalker murdered him.


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## Lakhota (May 15, 2012)

Trayvon Martins Body Shows No Sign of Struggle, Says Funeral Director Who Dressed It | Video | TheBlaze.com


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## Mr. Shaman (May 15, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> "broken nose, 2 black eyes and lacerations to the back of his head"
> According to discovery documents provided by the defendant to the prosecution.
> OH NO.
> Facts sure are a bitch.


.....So, *HE* went lookin' for trouble (per the phone-records)....ended-up taking *an ass-whuppin'* (more-than-likely why the cops *told* him to back-off)....and, the little-bitch had to shoot-his-way-out....'cause he just *HAD* to go lookin' for trouble.

Hell.....he should "do some time", just for being *so-fuckin'-STUPID!!*​


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## tinydancer (May 15, 2012)

BreezeWood said:


> > Trayvon Martin Witness Says Sanford Police Ignored Her [Video] | Click here for latest music news (full color articles)
> >
> > Welch: Cutcher believes whatever confrontation there was it ended before they got to her backyard and she believes Zimmerman continued to chase Martin as he tried to get home.
> 
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How would Cutcher know that? Crystal ball? Tarot cards? How did she come to the conclusion that Zimmerman continued to chase Martin as he tried to get home?

And the second mortgage was to show good faith to the Judge that he was not a flight risk by the commitment from his parents.

And Zimmerman said he didn't want to kill the young man but Trayvon was beating the shit out of him. And he thought he was going to get killed.


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## Lakhota (May 15, 2012)

Imagine how Trayvon felt.  He DID get killed.


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## Mr. Shaman (May 15, 2012)

tinydancer said:


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So....what.....he *forgot* to drop his gun & fight-*back????*






That little bitch was *DUE* an *ass-kickin'!!!!!!*

*NOW* he understands why he *SHOULD* have listened to the cops*!!!*

Now, he's gotta *PAY* for that *fuck-up!!!!*

(Don't you *"conservatives"* *still* consider that *"Accepting responsibility for your own actions"*??)

​


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## tinydancer (May 15, 2012)

Mr. Shaman said:


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He never talked to the cops before the shooting.  Don't lie.

 He placed a call to 911.


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## auditor0007 (May 15, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> "broken nose, 2 black eyes and lacerations to the back of his head"
> According to discovery documents provided by the defendant to the prosecution.
> OH NO.
> Facts sure are a bitch.



I still suspect that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation, and then after doing so, was beat up by Trayvon Martin, who was trying to defend himself, at which point Zimmerman killed him.  That does not make for a claim of self-defense.  Unfortunately, at this point in time, there is no proof one way or the other as to what really happened, so we are left having to believe or not believe the words of Zimmerman.  I still don't believe anything he says, but based on evidence, I would not convict him.


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## auditor0007 (May 15, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> REPORT: FBI May Charge George Zimmerman With Hate Crime, Could Face Death Penalty | ThinkProgress



As much as I think this guy is guilty, right now I don't see any evidence to convict him on.  You cannot convict someone just because you think he is probably guilty.


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## auditor0007 (May 15, 2012)

Lakhota said:


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With no witnesses, there is no proof.  I too think this is what happened, but I would never convict someone without any solid evidence against them.


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## Mr. Shaman (May 15, 2012)

tinydancer said:


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He was *TOLD* to back-*off!!*

*HE* fucked-up!

Now, it's time to *pay* (for *not* following instructions.)​


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## auditor0007 (May 15, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


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My issue with you is that you are so certain Zman is completely innocent.  All I see is that there is not enough evidence to convict him, but I would never adamantly support his innocence.


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## auditor0007 (May 15, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


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That I would agree with, sans any new evidence.


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## auditor0007 (May 15, 2012)

Duped said:


> Dumb ass Trayvon bit off more than what he could handle. If I have a gun on me, and someone attacks me - bang bang!  If he thought someone was stalking him, he should of called the police.



Ever think he didn't get the chance?  I really don't buy into the scenario that Zman was walking back to his car and Trayvon Martin then jumped him.  Granted I don't see any evidence to convict Zman, but I think he is a murderer.


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## auditor0007 (May 15, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


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No racism here; he just believes Zimmerman is guilty, as do I.  As I have already stated though, there just isn't enough, if any, evidence to prove it.


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## Lakhota (May 15, 2012)

auditor0007 said:


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I'm sure there is MUCH evidence yet to be disclosed - in both the state and federal investigations.

Trayvon also had the right to "stand _his_ ground".  If it is confirmed that Trayvon was running away and Zimmerman was running after him - that isn't good for Zimmerman.


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## auditor0007 (May 15, 2012)

Ariux said:


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You really have to work hard for red badges.  They are exclusively reserved for idiots.


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## auditor0007 (May 15, 2012)

Missourian said:


> The liberals are invested in their anti-self defense narrative.
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> When Zimmerman is acquitted they will claim the jury was rigged,  the jury was racist,  whatever Obama like excuses they think might be believable.
> ...



I will be shocked if this goes to trial before January.


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## auditor0007 (May 15, 2012)

Ariux said:


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I'll add to your neg rating, only because you are an absolute scumbag.


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## Charles_Main (May 15, 2012)

Lakhota said:


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Or we could all just believe as you do, that TVM was able to approach and Assualt his "Stalker" who was "harrassing him with a Gun" before Zimmerman was able to Shoot him. Right?

lol


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## tinydancer (May 15, 2012)

Mr. Shaman said:


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No one with any authority gave him an order to be obeyed. 

You're making stuff up.


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## Lakhota (May 15, 2012)

I think Zimmerman is guilty as hell - but I do want him to have a fair trial.  If the evidence, law, and fair jury acquit him - then so be it.  However, I don't think that will happen.  I fully expect that he'll serve at least some time in prison.  I also sort of doubt the FBI will ever file hate crime charges.


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## auditor0007 (May 15, 2012)

BreezeWood said:


> > Trayvon Martin Witness Says Sanford Police Ignored Her [Video] | Click here for latest music news (full color articles)
> >
> > Welch: Cutcher believes whatever confrontation there was it ended before they got to her backyard and she believes Zimmerman continued to chase Martin as he tried to get home.
> 
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Hadn't seen this before, definitely interesting.  I'll wait to see if there are any other surprise eye-witness accounts.


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## auditor0007 (May 15, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> I think Zimmerman is guilty as hell - but I do want him to have a fair trial.  If the evidence, law, and fair jury acquit him - then so be it.  However, I don't think that will happen.  I fully expect that he'll serve at least some time in prison.  I also sort of doubt the FBI will ever file hate crime charges.



The problem with convicting him is that he's been charged with murder 2.  As of now, there is nothing that would lead anyone to believe that murder 2 should be on the table.  Just as in the Anthony case, overcharging the defendant may well lead to an acquittal.


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## tinydancer (May 15, 2012)

auditor0007 said:


> BreezeWood said:
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FYI

Cutcher has been going for her "15 minutes". Check out how the police have publicly denounced her. 

*

Police spokesman Sgt. Dave Morgenstern disputed Cutchers claims about their investigation, according to the Orlando Sentinel. In a statement issued Thursday, he called Cutchers claims inconsistent with her sworn testimony to police.

Actually officers who were canvassing the neighborhood looking for potential witnesses, the evening of the shooting, contacted her and she said she did not want to get involved, Morgenstern said.*

Police & Witness Spar Over Trayvon Martin Investigation | Dominion of New York


From what I've read of her interviews she's full of shit and the Prosecutor better give her a wide berth because Zimmerman's attorney will be able to make mincemeat out of her.


----------



## Lakhota (May 15, 2012)

auditor0007 said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > I think Zimmerman is guilty as hell - but I do want him to have a fair trial.  If the evidence, law, and fair jury acquit him - then so be it.  However, I don't think that will happen.  I fully expect that he'll serve at least some time in prison.  I also sort of doubt the FBI will ever file hate crime charges.
> ...



I hear you, but I'm still assuming that the prosecutor, Angela Corey, is no fool.


----------



## Missourian (May 16, 2012)

tinydancer said:


> Mr. Shaman said:
> 
> 
> > tinydancer said:
> ...




The truth is Zimmerman DID back-off...even though no one with any authority ordered him too...Fiction:  Zimmerman continued to follow Martin after Dispatch told him "we don't need you to do that".

Truth:  Zimmerman stopped chasing Martin,  and had no idea where he was.  From  the transcript,  Zimmerman said when asked his address, "It&#8217;s a home  it&#8217;s 1950, oh crap I don&#8217;t want to give it all out, I don&#8217;t know where  [Martin] is."http://s3.documentcloud.org/document...-zimmerman.pdf​.
.
.
.
.
.
..
.
.But they will continue telling that lie and hope it sticks.http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-a...rtin-truth-vs-fiction-thread.html#post5147836​


----------



## tinydancer (May 16, 2012)

Missourian said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > Mr. Shaman said:
> ...



I'm still witnessing blog sites who for whatever reason are absolutely not taking down the transcripts of the manipulated 911 call.

Still up with the false quote of Zimmerman saying that "he looks black". Sheesh. Three people have "left" NBC over this blatant manipulation of the tape to make Zimmerman appear to be racially profiling and SOB's out there won't give up their false premise because the truth doesn't fit with their narratives. 

The mantra of "he was ordered to stop" is such bs. But the left will keep trotting it out. 

So many lies it's nauseating.


----------



## EmoBasher (May 16, 2012)

Anyone else think it's a sad statement that this thread's in the Politics section rather than the Law and Justice forum?


----------



## Missourian (May 16, 2012)

tinydancer said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> > tinydancer said:
> ...



And therein lies the problem.

It's a case of GIGO...garbage in,  garbage out.

These folks get fed false information by the MSM,  or blogs or people with an agenda...and therefore reach an erroneous conclusion.


----------



## Lakhota (May 16, 2012)

Interesting information: Dan Abrams Explains Zimmermans 2nd Degree Murder Charge: Youre Talking About Level Of Intent, Depraved Mind | Mediaite


----------



## Againsheila (May 16, 2012)

BreezeWood said:


> > Trayvon Martin Witness Says Sanford Police Ignored Her [Video] | Click here for latest music news (full color articles)
> >
> > Welch: Cutcher believes whatever confrontation there was it ended before they got to her backyard and she believes Zimmerman continued to chase Martin as he tried to get home.
> 
> ...



She also said that Trayvon was half Zimmerman's size.  Half?  Trayvon was taller than Zimmerman, he just didn't weigh as much, which would make it far easier for Trayvon to get away and we know he wasn't shot in the back, he was shot in the chest.  She admitted that Zimmerman was bloody, but didn't say anything about Trayvon....also said that Zimmerman, being bloody, continued to chase Trayvon and caught him...who the heck believes an injured man with a bloody nose and back of the head can chase down a much taller, thinner, more athletic person?  Of course, she also called the 17 year old 6'3" Trayvon "a little boy".


----------



## Truthseeker420 (May 16, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...



You sound angry. Why are you so emotionally invested in the murder of a black child? It was 45 days not 7 weeks and the video tape was the night of the murder.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 16, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > REPORT: FBI May Charge George Zimmerman With Hate Crime, Could Face Death Penalty | ThinkProgress
> ...



I hadn't noticed it being referenced by a person with two functioning brain cells, so perhaps that explains it.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 16, 2012)

tinydancer said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...



Makes you wonder when, exactly, Lone completed HIS medical examination of Mr. Zimmerman, doesn't it?  And will HIS examination records be admitted into evidence, as well?


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 16, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> > Lakhota said:
> ...



Perhaps because those others are ignorant dipshits who consider our Constitutional rights to be "terrorism"?


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 16, 2012)

auditor0007 said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > REPORT: FBI May Charge George Zimmerman With Hate Crime, Could Face Death Penalty | ThinkProgress
> ...



Out of morbid curiosity, on what are you basing your insistent belief that he's guilty?  It's apparently not based on the evidence, since you just admitted there isn't any.


----------



## JoeB131 (May 16, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> "broken nose, 2 black eyes and lacerations to the back of his head"
> According to discovery documents provided by the defendant to the prosecution.
> OH NO.
> Facts sure are a bitch.



So he was a complete pussy who got his ass whupped by a 17 year old kid he was stalking.  

He's going to be the prison bitch when he goes to prison, you know.  

Your boy is going to prison, and we will all be better off for it.


----------



## candycorn (May 16, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> Sounds like Trayvon did a good job of defending himself - until his stalker shot him.



Now apparently self-defense is a race issue.  Blacks aren't allowed to defend themselves.
The salivating over Zimmerman is pretty disgusting.  A guy who was not armed was shot and killed after being pursued by the guy with the gun.  

I don't know what Martin was up to but we all seem to agree that it wasn't a matter of Zimmerman being in harm's way and defending himself.  Much less from an unarmed "assailant".


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (May 16, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> Sounds like Trayvon did a good job of defending himself - until his stalker shot him.



Thats funny. The only wound Trayvon had was a single GSW. Doesnt sound like Zimm attacked Trayvon at all. But Zimm did defend himself. He'll walk,and we all know he deserves to.
Sorry race baiters,you'll have to find a new spokes person. Maybe one who hasn't been ventilated?


----------



## JoeB131 (May 16, 2012)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like Trayvon did a good job of defending himself - until his stalker shot him.
> ...



Actually, ZImmerman's going down whether he's guilty or not.  

If you dont think the prosecution is either going to offer him a deal or stack the jury against him, you're delusional.  

Republican and Democratic politicians want this guy to go to jail.  They don't want the race riots and they don't want the egg on their faces.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (May 16, 2012)

rdean said:


> That child "stood his ground" after being chased, and was murdered in cold blood.  True Story.




I guess Trayvon should have called the police like Zimm did. It's a shame he wasted his last phone call on his girl friend. What a dumbass.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (May 16, 2012)

BreezeWood said:


> > Trayvon Martin Witness Says Sanford Police Ignored Her [Video] | Click here for latest music news (full color articles)
> >
> > Welch: Cutcher believes whatever confrontation there was it ended before they got to her backyard and she believes Zimmerman continued to chase Martin as he tried to get home.
> 
> ...



So why would the guy who was obviously winning the fight call for help?

The witness didnt see shit...she heard something.And she lost all credibility when she called Trayvon "The no limit Nigga" a little boy.

Why do you care about how he made bail? And besides,they'll get that money back after he's found innocent.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (May 16, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> Trayvon Martins Body Shows No Sign of Struggle, Says Funeral Director Who Dressed It | Video | TheBlaze.com



The Blaze? Yeah thats a reputable news source if I ever saw one.
Funeral director is a black guy who the family hired...no bias there.

I think I'll believe the guy who did the autopsy. But thats just me.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (May 16, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> Imagine how Trayvon felt.  He DID get killed.



Awwww..Poor No Limit Nigga...My heart bleeds purple piss for him.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (May 16, 2012)

auditor0007 said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > "broken nose, 2 black eyes and lacerations to the back of his head"
> ...



What exactly makes you think 'No Limit Nigga" was trying to defend himself?
Sounds to me like "No Limit Nigga"started shit with the wrong guy.
I would have called the police on his honky ass personally.But thats just me.


----------



## Seawytch (May 16, 2012)

> "broken nose, 2 black eyes and lacerations to the back of his head"



Good. It means Trayvon got some good ones in on the stalker that killed him.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (May 16, 2012)

Truthseeker420 said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > Truthseeker420 said:
> ...



And you can see the cop checking Zimms head. And if you think eyes go black immediately after being punched in the nose you're an idiot.
The doctor stated that Zimm had a broken nose two black eyes and lacerations on the back of his head.......What do you want to bet(this being a criminal case and all) that the doctors took plenty of photos and you're going to look like an idiot before this is all said and done.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (May 16, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > Lakhota said:
> ...



Zimms not going to jail. This is all a dog and pony show to shut up idiots like the black panthers.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (May 16, 2012)

You gotta love all the Trayvon apologist. Every time one of their theories gets shot down they latch on to the next one only to have it shot down as well.

Y'all are starting to look really stupid. The left has turned this into a racial issue,when it's clearly not.


----------



## Gadawg73 (May 16, 2012)

LoneLaugher said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



What is there to talk about?
He got exactly what he bargained for.
Cilture of violence in the black community.
I feel for his family. They coddled a thug. He should have been in school but since he was expelled he should have been working in the yard with a shovel.
Trayvon was an undisciplined thug. 
Facts sure are a bitch for you. Get over it. Focus ON BLACK ON BLACK CRIME.
Which the media and you ignore.


----------



## Gadawg73 (May 16, 2012)

Amazing how the gullible dumbmasses allow the media to go with the "white Hispanic" and then "the stalker".
Where is Zimmerman charged with stalking?
And why not?
Because he WAS NOT stalking.
WELL DUH. 
Facts sure are a bitch. 
Sad fact is that if he WAS stalking, which he wasn't, it still does not allow Martin to attack him.
Prayers to the Martin family. They, and the dumb masses, have been conned ONCE AGAIN, by the media and the likes of Al Sharpton.


----------



## Old Rocks (May 16, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> "broken nose, 2 black eyes and lacerations to the back of his head"
> According to discovery documents provided by the defendant to the prosecution.
> OH NO.
> Facts sure are a bitch.



All of that, yet this is 40 minutes after the incident;

George Zimmerman on Police Surveillance | Video - ABC News

Been in some pretty good fights, never looked that good 40 minutes later.


----------



## Seawytch (May 16, 2012)

Let's see...racist guy, after being told that he didn't need to do it and the police were on their way, decides to follow a young kid on the way home from the store. That seems like stalking behavior to me. 

If a rapist managed to gouge a guys eye out while he was raping her, would ya'll be supporting the rapist like you are a murderer? Would she have deserved it for fighting back? 

I don't give a shit what happened to Zimmerman. Martin is dead and if he fought back before he was shot, good for him.


----------



## Gadawg73 (May 16, 2012)

Truthseeker420 said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > Truthseeker420 said:
> ...



Doesn't it make you angry that an innocent man faces murder charges?
With folk like you spreading lies I guess not. "Black child"?
Video tape is from 50 feet away Moe.
Where is your outrage on all of the black on black murders of black children?
OH NO, whitey had nothing to do with that!
Get used to it. In America a man has a right to defend himself.
My history is with the defense of wrongly accused defendants, mostly black by 5 to 1 over the last 30 years when I entered the private sector. 
How come you are NOT ANGRY about the doctored 911 calls by media?


----------



## Gadawg73 (May 16, 2012)

Seawytch said:


> Let's see...racist guy, after being told that he didn't need to do it and the police were on their way, decides to follow a young kid on the way home from the store. That seems like stalking behavior to me.
> 
> If a rapist managed to gouge a guys eye out while he was raping her, would ya'll be supporting the rapist like you are a murderer? Would she have deserved it for fighting back?
> 
> I don't give a shit what happened to Zimmerman. Martin is dead and if he fought back before he was shot, good for him.



Do you even have a clue what "a racist guy" means?
Being a racist means you believe your race is superior to another.
With all due respect you watch too much TV. Where is there any evidence Zimmerman is "a racist"?
Where is there ANY evidence Zimmerman threw the first punch?
Do you even know that under EVERY STATE'S CRIMINAL CODE the one that throws the first punch is the attacker?  And in Florida and most all states one can use deadly force to defend themselves from an attack by the attacker?
Please, respectfully, you have no clue and are grasping for straws and posting total BS. 
Give it up. You are uninformed on this subject. You throw the word racist out there and have no clue what the definition is.


----------



## Gadawg73 (May 16, 2012)

Now that the evidence appears weak on Zimmerman we can always depend on this:
"He is a racist".
When all else fails, play the race card.


----------



## Seawytch (May 16, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> > Let's see...racist guy, after being told that he didn't need to do it and the police were on their way, decides to follow a young kid on the way home from the store. That seems like stalking behavior to me.
> ...



Someone who phones the police repeatedly for people who just happen to be walking while black in his neighborhood seem racist to me. (He even phoned in a like 9 year old kid)

"These guys always get away with it". Which "these guys" do you think Zimmerman was referring to? 

Then we have the "coon" situation. Oh, right...he said "goon" because that's such a common phrase used these days...

Zimmerman was in the wrong from the get-go and a kid is dead as a result. He should be serving jail time, period.


----------



## SniperFire (May 16, 2012)

Who WOULDN'T shoot some big mean black dude that was beating the shit out of you?

Heck, it isn't even a racial thing as blacks blow each other away everynight.

Common sense, peeps.


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> Amazing how the gullible dumbmasses allow the media to go with the "white Hispanic" and then "the stalker".
> Where is Zimmerman charged with stalking?
> And why not?
> Because he WAS NOT stalking.
> ...



Dear fucking IDIOT, he is on tape minutes before he puts a bullet hole in a child saying he is following the kid.


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

He Followed Trayvon for what reason?


Becuase" THESE guys always get away".

who are These guys?


----------



## Gadawg73 (May 16, 2012)

I hope the Martin family gets the policy limits on the liability insurance policy from the complex they lived in. I bet it is a million or most likely a 2 million policy and under the rules of civil procedure, which are far-far different than the criminal code, they deserve every penny of that. Wrongful death proof is not the same as proving MURDER. 
But sports fans, if you DO NOT KNOW that is why all the lawyers and Al Sharpton fled to the Martin family from THE START then I have some beach front property in Macon, Ga. for sale for you.
So sad that the Martin family, a family that appears to be sincere, tight, hardworking and fine citizens have to fork over 33% of any of that $$ because they signed up with those ambulance chasers from the start. Most likely the carrier would have coughed up the policy limits from the start because of the nature of the death ON THEIR PROPERTY. 
Sadly, this tragedy was marketed by the media, Sharpton and all of those lawyers speaking for the Martins FROM THE START for the insurance $$$.
The Martins deserve that $$$, not the long line of lawyers "advising" them.
And the gullible and naive masses, as indicated here also, WERE SUCKERED AND CONNED from the start.


----------



## Old Rocks (May 16, 2012)

bucs90 said:


> not guilty. riots coming. lock n load.



Just drooling at the thought of getting to shoot some *******?


----------



## Gadawg73 (May 16, 2012)

"Racist, racist, he is a racist" with not one shred of fact to support is the EXACT SAME AS 
"******, ******, he is a ******" which I heard in the late 50s and 60s and we FOUGHT AGAINST. 
I have been there, WALKED THE WALK and have ALWAYS been a supporter of equal rights for all and most recently you will not find a BIGGER FIGHTER for gay rights.
In my blood.


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> Now that the evidence appears weak on Zimmerman we can always depend on this:
> "He is a racist".
> When all else fails, play the race card.



look you fucking dickweed this is NOT a game.

There are NO cards.

There are people and ONE of them is DEAD.

One is a person who stalked the other for NO reason except that he was black and a young man.


Pretending the death of a child is a game with cards to play is a racists tact.

FUCK YOU


----------



## Luddly Neddite (May 16, 2012)

Trayvon had every right to "stand his ground" and defend himself but look what that "right" got him. His stalker was intent on murder and it looks like Zimmerman will now get away with it. 

But a lot of people are going to stay very angry about it and Zimmerman isn't the only person who is armed and intent on murder.

It didn't have to be this way.


----------



## tinydancer (May 16, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > "broken nose, 2 black eyes and lacerations to the back of his head"
> ...



Released by ABC last month.


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

PROVE Trayvon attacked Zim first.


you cant.


Why do you assume it is so?

because you want the dead kid dead


----------



## SniperFire (May 16, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> Trayvon had every right to "stand his ground" and defend himself.





LOL

Probably should ask somebody if they have a gun before you attempt to beat them to death.


----------



## SniperFire (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> PROVE Trayvon attacked Zim first.
> 
> 
> you cant.
> ...





You think that scrawny little hispanic guy would attack that big black dude?


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

And there is the crazy right wing plan.

guns for everyone and lots of dead people


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

They want the wild west back.

they forget lots of kids and old ladies ended up dead in their little dream world


----------



## SniperFire (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> They want the wild west back.



Me, I would like to be able to defend myself when some big black kid tries to cave my head in.


But that is just me.


----------



## tinydancer (May 16, 2012)

Seawytch said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > Seawytch said:
> ...



Zimmerman was a Neighborhood Watch Captain. You patrol. That's what you do.

Now to "coon" vs "goon" CNN was forced to issue a grovelling apology for the bullshit they ran with. They went from "fucking goon" to "fucking cold".
It was very cold that night.

The media really screwed up on their "rush to judgement". They thought they had a white Jew shooting a young black youth in a hate crime.

And they did everything possible in the beginning to run their stories to fit their narrative.

Now where's your link to Zimmerman calling in pretending to be a 9 year old kid?
Or is this just another piece of bullshit that's out there?


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

who apointed him the watch position??


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > They want the wild west back.
> ...



If you attack him first he has a right to cave your head in


----------



## SniperFire (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > Truthmatters said:
> ...



Black dudes, about 6% of the population, commit over half the murders and violent crimes in America.

Profiling is a natural, evolved response to danger.


----------



## Katzndogz (May 16, 2012)

Once Zimmerrman was attacked, his duty thereafter was to die like all the others who are chosen by fate and a thug who just happens to be black.   Zimmerman's only obligation was to let himself get beaten up.   He didn't do it.


----------



## Gadawg73 (May 16, 2012)

All I have ever asked for is a fair trial for Zimmerman.
You folks have labeled him a racist.
And any of us that want to see a fair defense and point out the evidence that supports that are labled as "you are from Georgia" BS and attacks that we are "bubbas" and against blacks because we believe Zimmerman IS INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.
We are the defenders of the Constitution. You folks have no clue what that document says.
Get used to it. I am not going anywhere. Been shot, beat up and let for dead.
Tiddly winks is easy and fun!


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Martin cell phone call from girlfriend

Around the time of the incident, Martin was talking on his cellphone to his girlfriend, according to Attorney Benjamin Crump and confirmed by phone company records.[102] She called at 7:12 pm[103] She was interviewed by Crump who made a statement for her, as her parents requested her anonymity.

According to Crump's statement, Martin's girlfriend said that he expressed concern about a strange man following him, and she advised him to run. She says she heard Martin say "What are you following me for?" followed by a man's voice responding "What are you doing here?" She said that she heard the sound of pushing and that Martin's headset suddenly went silent, leading her to believe that he had been pushed. She attempted to call him back immediately, but was unable to reach him.[104]


----------



## geauxtohell (May 16, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> Trayvon had every right to "stand his ground" and defend himself but look what that "right" got him. His stalker was intent on murder and it looks like Zimmerman will now get away with it.
> 
> But a lot of people are going to stay very angry about it and Zimmerman isn't the only person who is armed and intent on murder.
> 
> It didn't have to be this way.



He'll walk due to SYG, and the Floridians will realize how fucking stupid the law is.

However, nothing will change until a white teenager is killed by a black adult on similar circumstances.

I am glad my state doesn't have that stupid fucking law.

Castle is sufficient for self defense.


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> All I have ever asked for is a fair trial for Zimmerman.
> You folks have labeled him a racist.
> And any of us that want to see a fair defense and point out the evidence that supports that are labled as "you are from Georgia" BS and attacks that we are "bubbas" and against blacks because we believe Zimmerman IS INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.
> We are the defenders of the Constitution. You folks have no clue what that document says.
> ...



"these assholes always get away"


that is what he said BEFORE he put a bullet in this kids body which crushed the life out of a teenaged boy with so much to live for.


----------



## tinydancer (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> who apointed him the watch position??



Neighborhood Watch groups are comprised of community volunteers who patrol and report criminal activity to police.

I used to live in Toronto, mega city, and Neighborhood Watch groups are everywhere. It's neighbours looking out for neighbours.


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

WHO appointed him to the position?


He was the ONLY person to respond to the NW program request.

He appointed himself


----------



## geauxtohell (May 16, 2012)

tinydancer said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > who apointed him the watch position??
> ...



And apparently ignore the Police dispatch at their convenience.


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

"these assholes always get away"

The person on the phone with Trayvon proves he was being stalked by this asshole wanta be failed cop


----------



## SniperFire (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> WHO appointed him to the position?





None of your business. 

Stay out of people's back yards dressed as a cat burglar if you don't want to be questioned about what you are doing in the neighborhood - and by all means, don't attempt to kick the shit out of little guys with guns.


----------



## Gadawg73 (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > Amazing how the gullible dumbmasses allow the media to go with the "white Hispanic" and then "the stalker".
> ...



Following is NOT stalking under the law.
NO ONE has an expectation to privacy IN PUBLIC, ON THE STREETS. Following is legal in all 50 states. Supreme Court interpretation of that is that Zimmerman could have put a GPS tracker on Martin and followed him off of that tracker and it IS LEGAL. Now the states could legislate that but most states have not. But in all states following someone IN PUBLIC is 100% legal. I used to investigate hundreds of worker's comp cases a year and we followed folk EVERY DAY legally. 
Stick to your day job: 
"Do you want fries with that"


----------



## Mr. Shaman (May 16, 2012)

auditor0007 said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > I think Zimmerman is guilty as hell - but I do want him to have a fair trial.  If the evidence, law, and fair jury acquit him - then so be it.  However, I don't think that will happen.  I fully expect that he'll serve at least some time in prison.  I also sort of doubt the FBI will ever file hate crime charges.
> ...



Yeah.....Zimmerman merely wanted to......



> ....*TALK* to Martin.


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...



well following, accosting and killing is against the law.

Tell you youngest female friend that men are allowed to follow her at night and she shouldnt worry if they do


----------



## Gadawg73 (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > Truthmatters said:
> ...



Who acosted who?
How come you do not want a fair trial and allow the witnesses testify as TO WHO ACCOSTED WHO?
Because Zimmerman is a "white" Hispanic and Martin is black.
GOT IT!


----------



## Mr. Shaman (May 16, 2012)

tinydancer said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > who apointed him the watch position??
> ...



'Nuff said.​


----------



## Katzndogz (May 16, 2012)

It's nice to know that if some black guy is following me, I have the right to use deadly force to make him stop following me.   It's nice to know that if this black guy stops following me, I have the right to follow him and use deadly force because I now feel like punishing him for following me.   That is, according to liberals.  

Trayvon Martin was beating Zimmerrman like so many black thugs have beat up white victims in cities across the nation.  Zimmerman had a right to defend himself.

Autopsy results show Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles | www.wftv.com

SANFORD, Fla.  


WFTV has confirmed that autopsy results show 17-year-old Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles when he died.

The information could support George Zimmerman's claim that Martin beat him up before Zimmerman shot and killed him.


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

PROVE Trayvon attacked Zimmerman.

YOU HAVE NO FUCKING PROOF


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## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

It is a racists LIE to say Trayvon attacked Zimmerman.

There is no proof of it in the evidence


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

Trayvon MAY!!!!!!!!!!!!~


MAY!!!!!!!!!!


have fought with Zimmerman.

There is NO proof he attacked Zimmerman.


----------



## geauxtohell (May 16, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> It's nice to know that if some black guy is following me, I have the right to use deadly force to make him stop following me.



I wouldn't bet 20 to life on that.


----------



## Mr. Shaman (May 16, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...


You're suggesting Martin (with his _super-human strength_) _ran-down_ Zimmerman's vehicle....dragged-him-out....and, kicked-his-ass*????*






*Stupid Fuckin' Racists*​


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...



Where thes fuck did I say I didnt want a trial?

see you lying asshole are making that up huh?


Guess what people on my side of the camp said when the case foirst came to light?

THERE NEEDS TO BE A TRIAL!

they were not even arresting him you fool


----------



## tinydancer (May 16, 2012)

geauxtohell said:


> luddly.neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Trayvon had every right to "stand his ground" and defend himself but look what that "right" got him. His stalker was intent on murder and it looks like Zimmerman will now get away with it.
> ...



The "black man killed unarmed white teen" scenario has already occured. Famous case out of New York. 

* What if Trayvon Had Been White, and the Shooter Black?
By Michael Filozof

What would happen if a black man armed with a handgun confronted "suspicious persons" in his neighborhood? What would happen if the "suspicious persons" were unarmed white teens, one of them was shot dead, and the shooter claimed self-defense?

This is not an exercise in mere speculation. We know what would happen in such a case. There would be no white mobs in the street chanting "No justice, no peace!"

 There would be no whites holding a "million hoodie march" in New York City. There would be no white equivalent of Al Sharpton, the professional race-baiter behind the 1987 Tawana Brawley hoax, leading marches in the streets of the shooter's hometown.

 There would be no Federal civil rights investigation by the Justice Department. There would be no comments from a president who seems congenitally unable to keep his mouth shut on matters involving left-wing political correctness.

 And there would be no national media attention from biased, left-wing "reporters."

We know this because in fact, such an event occurred in 2009 in Greece, N.Y., a suburb of Rochester. Roderick Scott, a black man, shot and killed an unarmed white teen, Christopher Cervini, whom he believed was burglarizing a neighbor's car, with a licensed .40 cal. handgun.

Read more: Articles: What if Trayvon Had Been White, and the Shooter Black?


Read more: Articles: What if Trayvon Had Been White, and the Shooter Black?
*

He was charged with manslaughter and walked.


----------



## geauxtohell (May 16, 2012)

tinydancer said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> > luddly.neddite said:
> ...



As a form of protest, I hope pistol packing Black men start vigorous neighborhood watches in the state of Florida.


----------



## Gadawg73 (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> PROVE Trayvon attacked Zimmerman.
> 
> YOU HAVE NO FUCKING PROOF



But you have proof Zimmerman attacked Martin.
You are a fucking *JOKE.*


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

Roderick Scott:


Mr scott had witnesses who said the kid came at him.

the two kids who ran away


----------



## tinydancer (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> Trayvon MAY!!!!!!!!!!!!~
> 
> 
> MAY!!!!!!!!!!
> ...



Autopsy results support Zimmerman's claim.

* 

Autopsy: Trayvon Martin had injuries to knuckles

Posted: 6:47 a.m. Wednesday, May 16, 2012


 SANFORD, Fla. 

WFTV has confirmed that autopsy results show 17-year-old Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles when he died.

The information could support George Zimmerman's claim that Martin beat him up before Zimm*

Autopsy: Trayvon Martin had injuries to knuckles | www.wdbo.com


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > PROVE Trayvon attacked Zimmerman.
> ...



Trayvon is dead, YES HE DID ATTACK HIM


----------



## Gadawg73 (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> It is a racists LIE to say Trayvon attacked Zimmerman.
> 
> There is no proof of it in the evidence



"RACIST"
Same as "******, ******, ******"
You are Exhibit A of what a bigot is.


----------



## SniperFire (May 16, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> WFTV has confirmed that autopsy results show 17-year-old Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles when he died.




The NERVE of Zimmerman damaging that poor child's knuckles with his face!


----------



## Gadawg73 (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > Truthmatters said:
> ...



I feel sorry for you. 
You are biased and prejudiced.


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

why cant you people grasp that the phone witness proves Zimmerman was stalking Trayvon?


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > It is a racists LIE to say Trayvon attacked Zimmerman.
> ...



Your the one attacking a dead boy who didnt get a chance to tell his side of the story BECAUSE HE WAS MURDERED


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...



Ah the pee wee defense


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs4Gj7JsET4]I know you are but what am I - Pee Wee - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

In right wing minds its OK to stalk a child at night with a gun and you can kill said child IF they try to defend themselves.


----------



## Gadawg73 (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> why cant you people grasp that the phone witness proves Zimmerman was stalking Trayvon?



Hearsay evidence. Inadmissable.
"I will instruct the jury to disreard those comments by the prosecutor. Mr. Prosecutor, if you bring up that phone call again I will fine you for contempt."

Stick to your "Do you want fries with that" gig.


----------



## Gadawg73 (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> In right wing minds its OK to stalk a child at night with a gun and you can kill said child IF they try to defend themselves.



Not right wing Moe.
Racist and right wing does not work. 
Try again.


----------



## tinydancer (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> Roderick Scott:
> 
> 
> Mr scott had witnesses who said the kid came at him.
> ...



And I have no problem whatsoever that Mr. Scott is a free man after sadly having to take another's life in self defense.

I'm glad he was found innocent.


----------



## Katzndogz (May 16, 2012)

geauxtohell said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > It's nice to know that if some black guy is following me, I have the right to use deadly force to make him stop following me.
> ...



Such is the mind of the leftist.  Of course if a black thug was following me I would not be allowed use of force to make him stop.  I wouldn't even be able to follow him and attack him because he was following me.  That is the state of the law.  The state of the liberal mind is that I'd be a racist if I did it.

The difference between Zimmerman and a tourist in Baltimore is Zimmerman had a gun.
The difference between Zimmerman and a Marine in Tampa is Zimmerman had a gun.
The difference between Zimmerman and a reporter in Norfolk is Zimmerman had a gun.


----------



## NLT (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> In right wing minds its OK to stalk a child at night with a gun and you can kill said child IF they try to defend themselves.



He wasnt a child, he was a thug wannabe with a chip on his shoulder, he thought Zimmerman was easy prey and got shot the fuck out.


----------



## asaratis (May 16, 2012)

NLT said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > In right wing minds its OK to stalk a child at night with a gun and you can kill said child IF they try to defend themselves.
> ...



Notice how the media always uses the pictures of the younger, innocent-faced Trayvon, the little child victim?






^^^^^^^^^^^^^Trayvon Martin ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


----------



## Caroljo (May 16, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> Besides, Zimmerman was not supposed to be armed while on watch.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Zimmerman wasn't on watch at the time this happened........

"*While on a private errand*, Zimmerman saw Martin walking inside the gated community where Martin was visiting his father and his father's fiancée. Zimmerman called the Sanford Police Department to report Martin's behavior as suspicious."

also...he had a good reason to be suspicious of Martin....

"Police had been called to The Retreat at Twin Lakes 402 times from January 1, 2011, to February 26, 2012.[50] Zimmerman was the caller on 12 of those calls in that time frame. Crimes committed at The Retreat in the year prior to Martin's death included eight burglaries, nine thefts, dozens of break-ins (at least one with a woman and infant upstairs) and one shooting. In September, Zimmerman was asked to head up a neighborhood watch. "

If Zimmerman (or anyone) was going to stalk someone just to murder them, why in hell would he bother calling the police AND kill the person in his own neighborhoood?  

Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## SniperFire (May 16, 2012)

asaratis said:


> NLT said:
> 
> 
> > Truthmatters said:
> ...



Look at Zimmerman's little girly hands:







That gangsta figured it was an easy mark.


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

dear fool.

what happened in this case shows WHY your idiot stand your ground laws are a disastor.


They get innocent people killed by nutters like Zimmerman


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

so because the kid flipped the bird you think hes better off dead?


----------



## SniperFire (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> so because the kid flipped the bird you think hes better off dead?



No.  

Because he is a gangsta that decided to try and cave somebody's head in is why he is better off dead.


----------



## Katzndogz (May 16, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > so because the kid flipped the bird you think hes better off dead?
> ...



More likely it was when he said "You're going to die tonight" then went for Zimmerman's gun is the reason why he died.


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

why does that not appear on the phone call?


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

What is your proof Trayvon ever said that?


----------



## SniperFire (May 16, 2012)

Why are you so upset, TM?

Dozens of gangstas get blown away every night.


----------



## Truthmatters (May 16, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > so because the kid flipped the bird you think hes better off dead?
> ...



So you claim Trayvon just walked over to zimmerman and tried to kill him for NO reaons?

on what evidence do you base that claim?


----------



## NLT (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> What is your proof Trayvon ever said that?



You are gonna look like the idiot you are when Zimmerman is let go.


----------



## asaratis (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> so because the kid flipped the bird you think hes better off dead?


I truly do not fathom why I respond to your idiot comments.  The photo was posted to contrast with what the media and the momma present as a representation of poor little Trayvon.  The media shows only the little smiley faced boy.

It has nothing to do with whether or not he should be shot.  It has to do with his own character.  He posted that picture on twitter.

Second Trayvon Martin Twitter Feed | The Daily Caller

Read and weep!  Trayvon is NOT the innocent little boy that you idiots put him up to be.  Zimmerman was attacked and had reason to shoot the punk.

If someone jumps on me and beats me with fists or other objects and if I can get to my gun, I will shoot the perp dead...even if it takes all five shots.  I don't care if the attacker is 15, 17, 27, 37, black, white, hispanic, asian, american indian, male or female.


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## asaratis (May 16, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > Truthmatters said:
> ...



I say it's more likely that Zimmerman did not have his gun out until after he was on the ground...UNDER Trayvon...having his head beat against the ground.


----------



## auditor0007 (May 16, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> auditor0007 said:
> 
> 
> > Lakhota said:
> ...



It's strictly what I think happened, just as many of you believe that Martin actually jumped Zimmerman as Zimmerman has stated.  I just don't believe Zimmerman, but since this is just what I believe and there is nothing to back it up, I would never convict him.  I am hoping that more evidence turns up against Zimmerman, but if not, then the case probably shouldn't even go to trial.


----------



## Katzndogz (May 16, 2012)

asaratis said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > SniperFire said:
> ...



That's what the testimony and evidence supports.


----------



## auditor0007 (May 16, 2012)

tinydancer said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...



I have never understood why there is a straight line across his head where the blood is.  Why is the blood not spattered forward as well as toward the back?  Just bugs me.


----------



## candycorn (May 16, 2012)

geauxtohell said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > Truthmatters said:
> ...



I regret I can't rep you again.  I'm sure the comeback was/will be is that cops are not on the ground and can't give sage advice.


----------



## asaratis (May 16, 2012)

auditor0007 said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...


I've had long scrapes on my knees and arms from sliding across various things.  If his head moved horizontally while in in contact with an abrasive object (such as a grain of sand or the corner of a rock)...it might leave a linear abrasion that barely breaks the skin but bleeds along its full length.

Zimmerman had little hair to protect his skin from such a slight injury.


----------



## Sallow (May 16, 2012)

Well it's reasonable to assume that all supporting evidence, such as xrays, pictures and the like will come out in the trial.

Which never would have happened..if Florida hadn't been put under national scrunity.

And they've got a weird way of applying the "Stand your ground" law. Just recently a woman was convicted and sentenced to 20 years..for firing a warning shot to keep her abusive husband at bay..

Florida woman sentenced to 20 years in controversial warning shot case - CNN


----------



## Misty (May 16, 2012)

Looks like the media will have to change George zimmerman's race. White black hispanic. 


"George Zimmerman, the Miami neighbourhood watch volunteer who provoked a storm after he shot dead an unarmed black teenager in Florida in February, apparently has black ancestry.

A photo aired by CNN shows a black-skinned man that Orlando attorney Mark NeJame says was George Zimmerman's great-grandfather.

It appears to support what Zimmerman's family has been saying for months: that Zimmerman has black-skinned relatives and was raised in a mixed-race family."

Photo 'proof' of Zimmerman's black roots | SBS World News


----------



## tinydancer (May 16, 2012)

auditor0007 said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > auditor0007 said:
> ...



To me, this is a tragedy of epic proportions blown completely into the twilight zone by the over exuberant media trying to get the biggest and best screaming headlines out there in the news world that is 24/7.

Three NBC top notch individuals have lost their jobs because they fabricated evidence basically when they edited that 911 tape to make Zimmerman appear to be a racist and a racial profiler. 

CNN had to issue an apology after trying to portray Zimmerman saying "fucking coon" instead of "fucking cold".

Absolutely outrageous behaviour by the media to stoke the flames of "race" hate.

This is, imho a case of two young men, both in the wrong place at the wrong time and because of the times we live in, I think Trayvon thought he was actually going to get jumped by Zimmerman and consequently he beat the crap out of George in a first strike if you will .

Sadly, while getting the beating, Zimmerman thought he was going to bite the dust and he shot Trayvon.

What a nightmare. Trayvon is dead and Zimmerman's life is ruined forever. 

Now this of course is sheer conjecture on my part.

 But it makes far more sense than the lurid tales being woven about Zimmerman being a racist pig stalking a young black man in the middle of the night just so he could shoot himself a black man. 

That boat don't float at all.


----------



## Katzndogz (May 16, 2012)

auditor0007 said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...



Gravity.  Liquid flows down.  What you might be thinking of is the spray (watch a lot of CSI do you) which presents a distinct pattern when an artery is cut.


----------



## Bigfoot (May 16, 2012)

auditor0007 said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...



Gravity.


----------



## Bigfoot (May 16, 2012)

LOL< Katz, same post, same time


----------



## Katzndogz (May 16, 2012)

tinydancer said:


> auditor0007 said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



Trayvon Martin likely thought it would be easy to take down this flabby guy and teach him a lesson.   Martin had some fight traiining.  He never imagined Zimmerman would be armed.  He thought he could take him and he was right.  Did Martin feel this way because he is black?  Of course not.  He felt this way because he was 17 years old and was full of the invincibility of all 17 year olds who imagine they are the smartest, strongest and fastest.


----------



## Katzndogz (May 16, 2012)

Bigfoot said:


> LOL< Katz, same post, same time



He also had his head tilted toward the left as that's the way the blood flow is going.   I blame television.


----------



## Caroljo (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > Truthmatters said:
> ...



Just as YOU claim Zimmerman killed Martin for NO reason!
You weren't there to see it, the evidence pretty much proves so far that Zimmerman was protecting himself.  Martin wasn't the choir boy either that your side is trying to make him out to be....


----------



## NLT (May 16, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > auditor0007 said:
> ...



That worked out well for the wanna be thug, did'nt it.


----------



## SAJason (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> why cant you people grasp that the phone witness proves Zimmerman was stalking Trayvon?



 No it doesn't,  the phone witness has no idea where Trayvon was walking. He could have walked up to Zimmerman and confronted him.


----------



## BreezeWood (May 16, 2012)

> http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/04/11/zimmerman.charges.pdf



The prosecutor is basing the case that Zimmerman unlawfully used his firearm ... "evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life".

* PDF would not copy -


----------



## Rat in the Hat (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> why cant you people grasp that the phone witness proves Zimmerman was stalking Trayvon?



The phone witness proves nothing.

The phone witness can claim Martin said anything, whether true or not, and there is no one on this planet that can verify her claims.

Would you believe her if all of a sudden, she claimed Martin said he was being followed by 3 Klansmen, just because that is what you want to hear?


----------



## Ariux (May 16, 2012)

auditor0007 said:


> I have never understood why there is a straight line across his head where the blood is.  Why is the blood not spattered forward as well as [run down] toward the back?  Just bugs me.



Because you're an idiot, never mistake your inability to understand something as evidence of something suspicious.


----------



## Ariux (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> why cant you people grasp that the phone witness proves Zimmerman was stalking Trayvon?



I don't have to ask why...  You are too stupid to grasp:

The phone witness wasn't there.  She refused to talk to police for several weeks, until she talked through a lawyer.  She refuses to identify herself.  She's a friend of Trayvon, and so shouldn't be expected to reveal anything that doesn't show Trayvon in a favorable light, like if he told her that he's going to "beat the shit out of that cracker."

In her account, Trayvon approached Zimmerman, you f-ing fag.   In her account, Trayvon confronted Zimmerman and asked, "What are you following me for?"  And, even by her account, it is pure speculation on her part that Zimmerman initiated physical contact.

You should rename yourself from "TruthMatters" to "HaterOfTruth."


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 16, 2012)

auditor0007 said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > auditor0007 said:
> ...



So basically, your answer is "I think it because I think it"?

Perhaps instead of giving me a dissertation on WHAT you think, which I already know, you could answer my question as to WHY you think so, and what you base it on, since you've already told us you're aware that there's absolutely no evidence that what you think is correct.

Are you admitting that you believe Zimmerman was in the wrong simply because you WANT to believe it?  Or worse, because Trayvon was black, and you were initially told that Zimmerman was white?  I'd like to think that's not the case, but the more you avoid the question with these "I believe it because I believe it" non-answers, the more I have to think it is.

And by the way, "I'm hoping more evidence against Zimmerman turns up"?  So basically, you're emotionally invested in WANTING him to be guilty?  Interesting turn of phrase.  Seems to me that an intelligent, civilized, open-minded person wouldn't be "hoping for evidence" either way, but merely looking at what evidence exists, and hoping justice would be done either way.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 16, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> auditor0007 said:
> 
> 
> > tinydancer said:
> ...



One of the problems with television:  It makes everyone into armchair forensic specialists.


----------



## Againsheila (May 16, 2012)

candycorn said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like Trayvon did a good job of defending himself - until his stalker shot him.
> ...



Defending himself from what?  Except for the gunshot, and lacerations on his fists from him punching Zimmerman, there were no marks on his body.  Unless you think he was using his fist to defend himself from Zimmerman's face.....And I'm pretty sure no one would expect him to use his fists to defend himself from a gun.


----------



## Againsheila (May 16, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > Lakhota said:
> ...



Sadly, you may be all too right.  I hate what America has become.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 16, 2012)

NLT said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > tinydancer said:
> ...



Yes, well, the sort of "cracker culture" aggressiveness that's become so popular among the youth of this country has never been healthy, sensible, or calculated to give the people exhibiting it a long lifespan.

If you're wondering about the reference to "cracker culture", read Thomas Sowell's excellent essay on the surprising origins of what black race baiters try to tell us is "authentic urban black culture" in his book, "Black Rednecks and White Liberals".

Now, I didn't know Trayvon Martin, so I can't say for sure, but given his preferred mode of dress, I think it's not an unreasonable assumption that he subscribed to this "cultural attitude".


----------



## Againsheila (May 16, 2012)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> BreezeWood said:
> 
> 
> > > Trayvon Martin Witness Says Sanford Police Ignored Her [Video] | Click here for latest music news (full color articles)
> ...



I think it was obvious when she called Trayvon a "little boy" that she didn't see anything that night, just wanted her 15 minutes of fame.


----------



## Againsheila (May 16, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...



That's what I'll never get over.  The father, when he came home and his son wasn't there, assumed he spent the night at a friends.  The kid was on suspension from school, I'd have his butt grounded and he would be going no where.  Especially not out to get skittles and tea in the dark which I wouldn't even let my 17 years old kid do when he wasn't suspended from school, not by himself.


----------



## tinydancer (May 16, 2012)

Misty said:


> Looks like the media will have to change George zimmerman's race. White black hispanic.
> 
> 
> "George Zimmerman, the Miami neighbourhood watch volunteer who provoked a storm after he shot dead an unarmed black teenager in Florida in February, apparently has black ancestry.
> ...



Yuppers. His great grandfather was Afro Peruvian. Just like the family said. I think his mom is Catholic, his dad is a Baptist. Multi racial, multi denominational family. Like a mini United Nations.

If they want to try to pin a hate crime on Zimmerman, they are truly out of their minds. 
But then they've already proven at the DOJ how evil and insane they are with Fast and Furious.


----------



## Againsheila (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > Amazing how the gullible dumbmasses allow the media to go with the "white Hispanic" and then "the stalker".
> ...



That doesn't make him a stalker.  I've been known to follow little kids I see in the mall when their parents aren't with them, just to make sure they are all right.  Found a two year old once and turned her over to security.  Do you know that mom didn't show up to get her child for 2 hours?  What kid of parent does that?  Maybe the same kind that let's his kid run loose when he's been suspended from school and then cries racism when the kid gets in trouble.

We've had a rash of mail theft in this neighborhood so now when I see someone I don't recognize getting mail out of an unlocked box, I watch them to make sure they live in the neighborhood.  Guess that makes me a stalker?


----------



## Againsheila (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> He Followed Trayvon for what reason?
> 
> 
> Becuase" THESE guys always get away".
> ...



The burglers who've been robbing the houses in the neighborhood.  One he had followed previously got away and came back later and robbed one of the houses.  He eventually got caught with the stolen laptop.  If Zimmerman had "stalked" him, maybe that house never would have been robbed.


----------



## Againsheila (May 16, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> I hope the Martin family gets the policy limits on the liability insurance policy from the complex they lived in. I bet it is a million or most likely a 2 million policy and under the rules of civil procedure, which are far-far different than the criminal code, they deserve every penny of that. Wrongful death proof is not the same as proving MURDER.
> But sports fans, if you DO NOT KNOW that is why all the lawyers and Al Sharpton fled to the Martin family from THE START then I have some beach front property in Macon, Ga. for sale for you.
> So sad that the Martin family, a family that appears to be sincere, tight, hardworking and fine citizens have to fork over 33% of any of that $$ because they signed up with those ambulance chasers from the start. Most likely the carrier would have coughed up the policy limits from the start because of the nature of the death ON THEIR PROPERTY.
> Sadly, this tragedy was marketed by the media, Sharpton and all of those lawyers speaking for the Martins FROM THE START for the insurance $$$.
> ...



As long as people can make money from racism, it will continue to exist.  Just think how much better the world would be without the Sharptons and Jacksons in it.


----------



## Againsheila (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> PROVE Trayvon attacked Zim first.
> 
> 
> you cant.
> ...



I don't think anybody wants the kid dead, not even Zimmerman.  We assume Trayvon attacked first because his body has abrasions on his knuckles and no bruises.  Now if Zimmerman attacked him first, you'd think there would be some bruising somewhere, wouldn't you?  Unless Zimmerman has the weakest punch in history.  And I'm pretty sure that the kid didn't get those abrasions on his fists AFTER he was shot.  That would have come up in the autopsy.


----------



## Ariux (May 16, 2012)

tinydancer said:


> If they want to try to pin a hate crime on Zimmerman, they are truly out of their minds.
> But then they've already proven at the DOJ how evil and insane they are with Fast and Furious.



One of the first acts of that Afro Eric Holder, head of the federal dept. of justice, was to drop voter intimidation charges against Black Panthers, who during the presidential election were patrolling voting places in Black Panther uniform, and carrying clubs.  Holder essentially admitted that he dropped charges against them because they're black.


----------



## Againsheila (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> And there is the crazy right wing plan.
> 
> guns for everyone and lots of dead people



According to the article I read, Zimmerman and his wife got guns after being cornered by dogs.  Zimmerman had bought pepper spray and the cop said that wouldn't be enough, he should get a gun.  There was a kid in our neighborhood years ago that was attacked by a dog, for a long time they thought the kid would never walk again, thank God they were wrong.  Bet that kids wishes he'd had a gun, I know if I'd had one that dog would have been dead.


----------



## Againsheila (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > Truthmatters said:
> ...



Really?  So if you're calling me names and I slap you, you have a right to kill me?


----------



## Salt Jones (May 16, 2012)

That dirty ****** deserved to die!


----------



## Rat in the Hat (May 16, 2012)

Salt Jones said:


> That dirty ****** deserved to die!



If you say so, Slick.


----------



## Againsheila (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > All I have ever asked for is a fair trial for Zimmerman.
> ...



that he was suspended from school not once but 3 times that year alone and was found at least once with stolen jewelry in his backpack.  Parents who don't care enough to ground him when he's suspended from school or even check on him when he disappears during the night.  Yep, no_limit_nigga had so much to live for.....chances are really good that if he continued the way he was going, he'd have died young anyway.  If Zimmerman had been black, none of this would have made the news.


----------



## Againsheila (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > Truthmatters said:
> ...



I was always told that if that happened to go to the nearest house and ring the doorbell and call the police (no cell phones back then).

All Trayvon had to do was go home and nothing would have happened to him.


----------



## Againsheila (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> It is a racists LIE to say Trayvon attacked Zimmerman.
> 
> There is no proof of it in the evidence



Evidence:  Trayvon had damage to his knuckles but no other bruises or damage to his body.

Zimmerman had a broken nose, two black eyes and blood on the back of his head.  

You claiming that Trayvon defended himself from Zimmermans face with his fists?


----------



## Againsheila (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> Trayvon MAY!!!!!!!!!!!!~
> 
> 
> MAY!!!!!!!!!!
> ...



So then who did he (Trayvon) attack and how did Zimmerman get the broken nose, black eyes and blood on the back of his head?  And how about the witness that said Zimmerman was on the bottom calling for help?


----------



## Againsheila (May 16, 2012)

geauxtohell said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > geauxtohell said:
> ...



Now THAT would be an appropriate reaction.


----------



## asaratis (May 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> In right wing minds its OK to stalk a child at night with a gun and you can kill said child IF they try to defend themselves.


One sick woman.

Trayvon was not acting as a child.  Stop describing him as a child.  Trayvon was an adolescent punk with a chip on his shoulder.  He got his ass shot trying to harm a legally armed man.

I have and make use of a weapons carry permit.  You can bet your sweet ass if I or my friends in company are assaulted by a 17 yo punk, I will shoot his ass to death rather than be whipped!


----------



## Jarhead (May 16, 2012)

candycorn said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> > tinydancer said:
> ...



why would you want to rep him for something that has absolutely no proof of being accurate?

And to the contrary, there is some limited proof proving the exact opposite?

When the dispatcher suggested Zimmerman NOT follow Martin, Zimmerman responded OK..and there was a noticeable change in his breathing indicating that he was no longer running.

We  have a choice of "hoping" for one of two Outcomes.....

1) A minor was shot and killed in cold blood for no other reason than the color of his skin
2) A minor lost his cool becuase he did not like the fact that a neighborhood watchman was "watching" him and he decided it best to beat the crap out of the guy to get back at him...and lost his life doing so.

Now, when I look at the evidence that we have been allowed to see, I have yet to find a single hole in Zimmermans recount of the event. All evidence so far backs it up.

Yet many like you are taking facts and spinning them to try to prove Zimmermans guilt.

So I need to ask ...

Why are you so hell bent on this being a case where an innocent child lost his life?

Is that what you prefer?


----------



## Foxfyre (May 16, 2012)

Of course the whole media frenzy has been based on a 'white guy' profiling and making up a reason to kill a black guy.  Not JUST a black guy but an innocent kid who just wanted some skittles.  They even had to transform Zimmerman from a Hispanic to a 'white guy' to make it look really really REALLY bad.   And as long as that was the story line, which those of the gullible left consumed with great gusto and continue to try to promote, it was front page stuff and prominent on the evening news.

Now that evidence appears to be leaked out that goes in Zimmerman's favor, where are the front page stories?  Have you picked up on this from your favorite evening newscast?

The motives driving the dynamics are so blatantly obvious that it is sickening.


----------



## Gadawg73 (May 16, 2012)

Jarhead said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > geauxtohell said:
> ...



Because the killer of Trayvon Martin was not black.
What is the % of black on black murders there in that area, and every urban area of America, where NO ARREST was made?
And guess why NO arrest is made on many black on black murders?
Retribution. NO one will testify against a black in many instances as that would get their ass killed in the black community.
A culture of violence. It is accepted AS LONG as a white is not doing it.
If whitey is involved THEN AND ONLY THEN do they want the police involved.
Not the majority, but a large %. 
Facts sure are a bitch.


----------



## Gadawg73 (May 16, 2012)

And I find the target of the hooded model with the Skittles in the pocket outrageous.
I hope the Martin family sues the guy that is selling that and wins.
Trayvon Martin had a family. They are innocent.


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## koshergrl (May 16, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > It is a racists LIE to say Trayvon attacked Zimmerman.
> ...


 
Apparently Martin was beating the shit out of this innocent kid with his nose, and the back of his head....

So is there evidence of Zimmerman hitting Martin?

Nope, not that I've heard anything about.


----------



## Ariux (May 16, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> What is the % of black on black murders there in that area, and every urban area of America, where NO ARREST was made?
> And guess why NO arrest is made on many black on black murders?
> Retribution. NO one will testify against a black in many instances as that would get their ass killed in the black community.



Remember, Afros are wild beasts.  Their maulings of victims are relatively random, which makes the culprit hard to identify.   When white people kill, it's usually for good reason, which makes the alleged culprit easy to identify.


----------



## LilOlLady (May 16, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > What do Martin's discovery documents say about his condition?
> ...



What happen to Zimmerman between the time of the incident and the next day when he presented his injuries to a doctor? Vidio that day, paramedic report to do suport the injuries the next day. A cut lip also.
Zimmerman's injuries only show that Trayvon seeing a crazed man with a gun stood him gorund an fought for his life.
My question is why didn't Zimmermans natural instinct to fight back did not take over instead of reaching for his gun and shooting the child? Trayvon did see the gun because Zimmerman said he reached for it.
Zimmerman account has not been consistant.


----------



## koshergrl (May 16, 2012)

When I'm on the ground getting my head thwacked, and someone is grabbing for my gun..

I'm gonna shoot someone.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 16, 2012)

asaratis said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > In right wing minds its OK to stalk a child at night with a gun and you can kill said child IF they try to defend themselves.
> ...



Liberals think 13-year-old girls are adult women who should make decisions about having sex with 25-year-old men and then aborting the resulting babies without any reference to their parents, but 17-year-old boys are little children who should be coddled and patted on the head.

No wonder I'm not a liberal.  It would require some massive lobotomization to damage my IQ down to that level of "logic".


----------



## Ariux (May 16, 2012)

LilOlLady said:


> What happen to Zimmerman between the time of the incident and the next day when he presented his injuries to a doctor? Vidio that day, paramedic report to do suport the injuries the next day. A cut lip also.
> Zimmerman's injuries only show that Trayvon seeing a crazed man with a gun stood him gorund an fought for his life.
> My question is why didn't Zimmermans natural instinct to fight back did not take over instead of reaching for his gun and shooting the child? Trayvon did see the gun because Zimmerman said he reached for it.
> Zimmerman account has not been consistant.



You need to step back and consider what a racist shithead you're being.  Is that really the kind of person you want to be?

Police arrived seconds after the shooting and observed Zimmerman bleeding from his nose and the back of his head.  Witnesses observed what appeared to be Trayvon on top of Zimmerman, beating Zimmerman, and grass stains on Zimmerman's back supports this.  But, you ask "What happen[ed] to Zimmerman between the time of the incident and the next day when he presented his injuries to a doctor?"  Pathetic.  Absolutely fucking pathetic.

You continue your role as a racist shithead by arguing that Zimmerman's wounds only show that Trayvon was acting in self-defense.  Hey shithead, if Trayvon saw a gun, why was he busy pounding Zimmerman instead of grabbing the gun first?  If Trayvon's only interest was self-defense, why wasn't he long gone before the shooting, instead of practically in the same spot he was several minutes earlier when Zimmerman was on the phone with police?

In Zimmerman's account, it could be that Trayvon didn't know about the gun until he was on top of Zimmerman.  So, no, Zimmerman's account is not inconsistent. 

Shame on you.


----------



## LilOlLady (May 16, 2012)

ZIMMERMAN'S INJURIES INCONSISENT WITH CLAIM.



Zimmerman Medical Report

The record shows that Zimmerman also suffered *bruising in the upper lip and cheek* and *lower back pain*. The *two lacerations *on the back of his head, one of them *nearly an inch long*, the other *about a quarter-inch long*, were first revealed in photos obtained exclusively by ABC News last month.

ABC News Exclusive: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations After Trayvon Martin Shooting - Yahoo!



*Inconsistent with head being bashed repeatedly on concrete to the point of almost losing consciousness*.
No cut on his lip when he was arrested.


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## koshergrl (May 16, 2012)

No, it's not inconsistent at all.


----------



## LilOlLady (May 16, 2012)

Ariux said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> > What happen to Zimmerman between the time of the incident and the next day when he presented his injuries to a doctor? Vidio that day, paramedic report to do suport the injuries the next day. A cut lip also.
> ...



Maybe he did not want Zimmerman to know where he was going? Why was Zimmerman still following him?
Maybe he did see the gun and ther is no evidence of a pounding except the day after. Village idiot.
Eveyone Zimmerman has talked to he has given a different account.
What took officers so long to get there after the 911 call?
Sound like a story you made up and not even anything that was reported.
"Desperate measures call for desperate actions." He could have had these injuries inflicted by him. His ass was at stake.


----------



## koshergrl (May 16, 2012)

NOBODY but NOBODY will knowingly jump on a person with a gun pointed at them.

NOBODY.


----------



## Ariux (May 16, 2012)

LilOlLady said:


> Maybe he did not want Zimmerman to know where he was going? Why was Zimmerman still following him?
> Maybe he did see the gun and ther is no evidence of a pounding except the day after. Village idiot.
> Eveyone Zimmerman has talked to he has given a different account.
> What took officers so long to get there after the 911 call?
> ...



You don't know that Zimmerman was still following him.  And, you continue to ignore that Trayvon didn't go anywhere.  He was shot in practically the same spot that he was when Zimmerman was on the phone with police minutes earlier.  Even if he didn't want Zimmerman to know where he was going, he could have still have been long gone.

"There is no evidence of a pounding except the day after?"  Are you mentally retarded?  Seriously. 

Everyone police talked to gave similar accounts, as similar as can be expected, including two non-desperate witnesses (one being an Afro) who saw the one-sided fight.  

By Murphy's law, police only arrive after they're no longer needed.  That's why it's important for people to own guns for self-defense.


----------



## Againsheila (May 16, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Of course the whole media frenzy has been based on a 'white guy' profiling and making up a reason to kill a black guy.  Not JUST a black guy but an innocent kid who just wanted some skittles.  They even had to transform Zimmerman from a Hispanic to a 'white guy' to make it look really really REALLY bad.   And as long as that was the story line, which those of the gullible left consumed with great gusto and continue to try to promote, it was front page stuff and prominent on the evening news.
> 
> Now that evidence appears to be leaked out that goes in Zimmerman's favor, where are the front page stories?  Have you picked up on this from your favorite evening newscast?
> 
> The motives driving the dynamics are so blatantly obvious that it is sickening.



Nope, not a whisper.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 16, 2012)

Okay, how about we cut through all the talking-past-each-other, I'm-sure-I-heard-this-somewhere bullshit and lay out what the public actually knows about this case, so that we're all more-or-less on the same page?

George Zimmerman is a member of his local neighborhood watch.  That evening, he was going to the grocery store - NOT patrolling for the watch.  He was carrying a gun, which he is licensed to do.  He observed Trayvon Martin, who was returning to his father's fiancee's townhome after a trip to the store, walking behind the townhomes rather slowly and apparently looking at the houses, despite the fact that it was raining.  Finding this suspicious, he dialed the police non-emergency number.

During the 4-minute, 11-second recording, he identified the suspicious person as a black male, late teens, when asked by the dispatcher, said that Martin was now looking at him and then coming toward him (although he was still sitting in his vehicle at this time), and then said that Martin was running.  At that point, the sounds on the recording indicate that Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and was walking.  Apparently because of this, the dispatcher asked him if he was following, and Zimmerman said he was.  The dispatcher told him that they didn't need him to do that, and Zimmerman agreed.  He and the dispatcher discuss where he should meet the officer being sent out, and Zimmerman starts to give his address, but says he doesn't want to give it all, because he doesn't know where Martin is.  He then asks the dispatcher to have the officers call him when they arrive, and he will tell them where he is at that time.  They confirm that the dispatcher has his correct number, and the call ends.

For time clarification, Zimmerman's call to the police began at 7:09 pm, and as I have said, lasted 4 minutes and 11 seconds (this according to their recording and time stamps).  

Trayvon Martin's girlfriend was on the phone with him beginning at 7:12 pm, according to the phone company records.  I am not sure how long her call lasted.  She claims that Martin told her "some man" was following him, and she advised him to run.  She also says that she heard Martin ask someone, "What are you following me for?" and another voice saying, "What are you doing here?"  She says she then "heard the sound of pushing", whatever that might be, and Martin's headset went silent, leading her to believe he'd been pushed.  She tried to call him back, but got no answer.  There is no recording of her conversation with Martin to confirm or dispute her account of what was said.

Timothy Smith, the first police officer on the scene, reported finding Martin on the ground, face-down and unresponsive, and Zimmerman standing near him.  He also observed that Zimmerman's back was wet and covered with grass and that he was bleeding from the nose and the back of the head.  Smith took Zimmerman's gun and handcuffed him.

The second and third officers on the scene began CPR on Martin, which was continued by paramedics when they arrived until Martin was declared dead at 7:30 pm.  Other officers arrived, secured the scene, and collected witness statements.  Zimmerman was treated by the paramedics at the scene, declined to go to the hospital, and was placed in Officer Smith's vehicle.  At that time, he said, "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me."  He was then taken to the police station and questioned.

Martin's body was taken to the morgue and marked as a "John Doe".  His father called to file a missing person's report the next day, and officers quickly arrived at his fiancee's townhome with photographs for him to identify.

A witness to the confrontation, identified as "John", said that "the guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling 'Help! Help!', and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911."  He then says that when he looked back, "the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."

Another witness, a 13-year-old boy, said he saw a man on the ground shortly before the shooting and that he was wearing red.  His mother later disputed her son's story.

Mary Cutcher and her roommate, Selma Lamilla, admit that they did not see the shooting or the confrontation before it, but nevertheless have stated that they believe there was "no punching, no hitting, no wrestling" before the shooting.  They say they heard the two men in their backyard, and "a very young voice" whining, with no sounds of a fight.  They say they heard a gunshot, the crying stopped, and they saw Zimmerman on his knees, straddling Martin.  Mary Cutcher phoned the police after the shooting and told them that the black man was standing over another man, although Martin was already dead.  Police spokesman Sgt. Dave Morgenstern issued a statement disputing the statements Cutcher made on television, calling them "inconsistent" with their sworn testimony to the police.

A male witness said he saw two men on the ground scuffling, then heard the shooting, and saw Zimmerman walk away with no blood on him.

A witness identified as female said that she heard an argument between a younger and an older voice. The whole time she witnessed the incident the scuffling happened on the grass. She said that the larger man, who walked away after the gunshot, was on top, and that it was too dark to see blood on his face.

A witness who arrived just after the shooting took pictures of the back of Zimmerman's head, showing two cuts, blood, and a developing contusion.  He said he heard the scuffle, but didn't see it.

Some of the recordings of the various 911 calls include the sound of someone shouting for help.  Martin's mother insists it is his voice, and Zimmerman's father and other relatives insist it is his.  It should be noted the Special Prosecuter Corey's Affidavit of Probable Cause mentions only Martin's mother's perspective, and not the Zimmerman family's.  The FBI has been unable to determine which it was.

The lead homicide investigator on the case, Chris Serino, allegedly filed an affidavit the night of the incident claiming to be unconvinced by Zimmerman's account and recommending manslaughter charges.  He was - also allegedly - told by the state attorney's office that there was insufficient evidence to obtain a conviction.  

George Zimmerman was questioned by investigator D. Singleton, and released without charges.  He told investigators that after his call to the police ended, he was returning to his vehicle, and Martin approached him from behind.  

According to statements made by Zimmerman's father, Martin asked Zimmerman, "Do you have a problem?"  Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, at which point Martin punched him in the face, knocked him down, and began beating his head against the sidewalk.  

Zimmerman stated that he called out for help, and that at one point, Martin covered his mouth to muffle him.

Also according to Zimmerman's father's statements, Martin saw Zimmerman's gun while he was on top of him, they struggled for it, and Zimmerman shot Martin in self-defense.

Early press reports mistakenly said that there were two gunshots, but in fact the gun was fired only once.

Zimmerman claimed self-defense, and investigators and the State Attorney's office both said that there was insufficient evidence to dispute that, and no probable cause to arrest him.

State Attorney Wolfinger initially announced, after public outcry, that a grand jury would be convened to investigate Martin's death, but Special Prosecutor Angela Corey announced that her office, not the grand jury, would decide whether to press charges.

Medical records by Zimmerman's doctor indicate that he was seen the day after the shooting, and was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, two black eyes, lacerations to the back of his head, a minor back injury, and bruising in his upper lip and cheek.

Autopsy results on Martin show a fatal gunshot wound and broken skin on his knuckles.

Zimmerman was taken into custody on April 11, almost two months after the incident, and charged with 2nd-degree murder.

Zimmerman's bail was set at $150,000 on April 20, and he took the stand to express his sorrow over Martin's death.  He was released on bail on April 23, fitted with an electronic monitoring device, and has entered a "not guilty" plea.

This what we KNOW, from the evidence that has been currently released to the public.  There is clearly more evidence that has not been released to the public as yet.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 16, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Okay, how about we cut through all the talking-past-each-other, I'm-sure-I-heard-this-somewhere bullshit and lay out what the public actually knows about this case, so that we're all more-or-less on the same page?
> 
> George Zimmerman is a member of his local neighborhood watch.  That evening, he was going to the grocery store - NOT patrolling for the watch.  He was carrying a gun, which he is licensed to do.  He observed Trayvon Martin, who was returning to his father's fiancee's townhome after a trip to the store, walking behind the townhomes rather slowly and apparently looking at the houses, despite the fact that it was raining.  Finding this suspicious, he dialed the police non-emergency number.
> 
> ...



Now, having laid out the evidence currently known by the public, let me make a few comments.

First, the timeline of the calls, from Zimmerman to the police and from Martin's girlfriend to Martin.  We know Martin's call started at 7:09 and lasted 4 minutes and 11 seconds, which means it ended at just shy of 7:14 pm.  We know that Martin's girlfriend's call to Martin started at 7:12 pm, which means that she called him AFTER Zimmerman told the dispatcher Martin had run away, that he (Zimmerman) had stopped following Martin, and that he (Zimmerman) didn't know where Martin was.  Yet Martin's girlfriend claims Martin told her "some guy" was following him and she told him to run away AFTER he had apparently already done so.  She also said she heard a verbal confrontation between Martin and Zimmerman, which would have required Martin to have RETURNED to the area Zimmerman was in.  If it had taken place any earlier, it would have been audible on the police recording.

Second, Martin's girlfriend said she heard the "sound of pushing".  What the hell does pushing someone sound like?

Moving along, this is just my opinion, but Cutcher the witness and her roommate sound like opportunists turning up after the media hullabaloo started to get their fifteen minutes of fame.  They admit to not having seen the confrontation OR the shooting, and yet go on television to give definitive statements about what did and did not happen.  Worse, their statements on TV contradict the statements given by all the other witnesses, the 911 recordings on which parts of the struggle can be heard, and apparently contradict the statements they themselves gave to the police.


----------



## Ariux (May 16, 2012)

A few comments:

The 13-year-old witness to Zimmerman being on the ground is an Afro.

The two women "witnesses", roommates, who support Trayvon didn't witness anything that we didn't witness ourselves in the 911 calls.  The media is confusing their speculation about what happened with with what they witnessed.  After one of them mistakenly identified the swarthy Zimmerman as an Afro, they might be trying to protect themselves from accusations of racism.  Or, maybe they're just stupid bimbos who think the 12yr-old little Trayvon is just to tender to be guilty of assault.

One of the most important details left out of the very good summery is the location Zimmerman identified he last saw Trayvon vs. where Trayvon was shot, and the time span in between.  This shows Trayvon actually stalked Zimmerman.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 16, 2012)

Ariux said:


> A few comments:
> 
> The 13-year-old witness to Zimmerman being on the ground is an Afro.
> 
> ...



As to what race the 13-year-old is, I couldn't say.  I'm not aware that he's been identified.  I do find it interesting that his mom turned up after the media firestorm started and tried to hijack the kid's testimony to fit in with the PC media snow job.  She strikes me as another opportunist trying to cash in on a little fleeting fame.

I did point out that Cutcher and her roommate admit themselves that they didn't see a thing, and that their statements on the television contradict everyone else's statements, including the ones they themselves made to the cops.  I find it interesting that no matter whether you're talking about witnesses who corroborate Zimmerman or witnesses who contradict him, the version offered by Cutcher and her roommate don't agree with either side.

I don't have access to any maps or photographs of the housing community at the moment, and haven't heard or seen any official statements as to where the shooting took place in relation to where Zimmerman's vehicle was parked, where Zimmerman told the dispatcher he was (which was kind of vague anyway), etc.  I shall be interested to see further information in this regard as the story continues to unfold.

I am also interested, while I'm on the subject, to see what the autopsy report has to say about Trayvon Martin's physical position when he was shot.  I am told that a gunshot wound to someone standing up is noticeably different from a gunshot wound to someone lying on the ground, so any such information by the coroner would tend to corroborate one set of witnesses, and discredit the other.

I do note, though, that Martin's body was found lying facedown.  If Zimmerman had been the man on top of the struggle, this would mean he either shot Martin in the back while he was facing the ground, or he shot him in the front and then, for some unknown reason, rolled him over.  Since the latter is highly unlikely, if the autopsy shows that Martin was shot from the front, this would also tend to corroborate Zimmerman's story.  Of course, if Martin was shot in the back, then Zimmerman's fucked no matter how it went down.


----------



## Rat in the Hat (May 16, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> > A few comments:
> ...



I think if Martin would have been shot in the back, Zimmerman would have been arrested that night, as the cops wouldn't have believed it was self defense.

What I think happened was Martin was on top, and when Zimmerman shot him, Martin fell to one side and Z slipped out from under him leaving him face down. He then got on top of him to make sure he couldn't easily get up and resume the struggle, not realizing he was already dead.


----------



## tinydancer (May 16, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> > A few comments:
> ...



I just got back in from the garden and caught your posts. Excellent. Great job on the timeline.

I agree on Cutcher sp? and her room mate. I have read the Police statement that discredits them from the get go. She declined to make a statement when they first canvassed the neighborhood and then lo and behold they are all over the TV during the media frenzy.  I'm fried from planting but I know I put up a credible link to the police statement in one of these Zimmerman threads. 

"John" appears to be a very credible witness and my take on "John" is that he's laying low after giving his statement over concerns for his safety. 

Thanks for a fabulous summation!


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## PredFan (May 16, 2012)

Zimmerman is going to be found not guilty. Every single time REAL evidence comes out, it supports Zimmerman's story. Of course the lynch mob won't accept it and neither will the thick-headed morons here who convicted GZ from the very beginning.

You want to know a sure way to tell if you are right or wrong? If Al Sharpton is on your side, you are on the wrong side of the issue.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 16, 2012)

Rat in the Hat said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Ariux said:
> ...



I think so, too.  On the other hand, the police and the State Attorney's office both said right afterward that there was no evidence to dispute his claim of self-defense or to warrant his arrest.  It was only after the racial hue-and-cry went up that the authorities mysteriously decided there was a case against him.

Under the circumstances, I would like to hear this officially from the autopsy report, and then have the Zimmerman accusers who insist he attacked poor Trayvon explain to me why, in that case, he would have shot him and then rolled him over on his face.



Rat in the Hat said:


> What I think happened was Martin was on top, and when Zimmerman shot him, Martin fell to one side and Z slipped out from under him leaving him face down. He then got on top of him to make sure he couldn't easily get up and resume the struggle, not realizing he was already dead.



Given the evidence and testimonies offered so far, and their varying degrees of believability, I'm inclined to think Martin was on top, Zimmerman shot him, Zimmerman basically squirmed out from under him, and then perhaps knelt over him to ascertain if he was dead.  That would have been my inclination in that circumstance.  

That's assuming you put any credence at all in the story of Cutcher and her roommate, who currently appear to be the only people claiming to see Zimmerman "straddling" Martin after the gunshot.  Personally, I'm inclined to completely dismiss them both as wannabe media whores.

For the record, I also think Martin's girlfriend's story sounds very contrived.  The witness who seems most coherent and reliable right now would be "John".  The others either sound like they only saw bits and pieces, and/or are trying to paste something together to fit the media narrative so they can get on TV.  I don't blame the ones who only have bits and pieces, because any cop will tell you that eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable, and will give you as many different versions of an event as there are people.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 16, 2012)

PredFan said:


> Zimmerman is going to be found not guilty. Every single time REAL evidence comes out, it supports Zimmerman's story. Of course the lynch mob won't accept it and neither will the thick-headed morons here who convicted GZ from the very beginning.
> 
> You want to know a sure way to tell if you are right or wrong? If Al Sharpton is on your side, you are on the wrong side of the issue.



I have to admit, you have a point.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 16, 2012)

Something else I wanted to comment on:

_Mary Cutcher and her roommate, Selma Lamilla, admit that they did not see the shooting or the confrontation before it, but nevertheless have stated that they believe there was "no punching, no hitting, no wrestling" before the shooting. They say they heard the two men in their backyard, and *"a very young voice" whining*, with no sounds of a fight. They say they heard a gunshot, the crying stopped, and they saw Zimmerman on his knees, straddling Martin. Mary Cutcher phoned the police after the shooting and told them that the black man was standing over another man, although Martin was already dead. Police spokesman Sgt. Dave Morgenstern issued a statement disputing the statements Cutcher made on television, calling them "inconsistent" with their sworn testimony to the police.

A witness identified as female said that she heard an argument between *a younger and an older voice.* The whole time she witnessed the incident the scuffling happened on the grass. She said that the larger man, who walked away after the gunshot, was on top, and that it was too dark to see blood on his face._

These two references to "a young voice".  What the hell does that MEAN?  Martin was 17, and Zimmerman was 28.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but unless a man has some sort of weird deficiency, by the age of 17, he's fully undergone puberty and his voice has changed.  No one's ever indicated that Martin had any such weirdness about him or sounded any different from any other normal, healthy 17-year-old male.

Am I the only one who has never noticed any marked difference between the voice of a 17-year-old and that of a 28-year-old?  I can see judging age in a very general fashion when talking about young children, or senior citizens, or those in-between, but making that fine a distinction?  What the hell is THAT about?


----------



## Ariux (May 16, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> As to what race the 13-year-old is, I couldn't say.  I'm not aware that he's been identified.



Austin Brown is the other witness.  The most interesting unidentified person is the female Trayvon was on the phone with.  I don't think anyone in the media has even had a chance to talk to her, even with her identity kept hidden.  And, it's curious that she didn't go to police with what she knew, as soon as she found out what happened, even more so knowing that Zimmerman wasn't charged.    



> I did point out that Cutcher and her roommate admit themselves that they didn't see a thing, and that their statements on the television contradict everyone else's statements, including the ones they themselves made to the cops.  I find it interesting that no matter whether you're talking about witnesses who corroborate Zimmerman or witnesses who contradict him, the version offered by Cutcher and her roommate don't agree with either side.



Yes.  Again, these women are openly speculating based on the same information we have.  Yet, I repeatedly see websites identify them as witnesses that it was Trayvon screaming.  BTW, what's the difference in the shrill screaming of a 17-year-old vs a 28-year-old? Both are physically mature men who wouldn't see any more voice changes due to development growth.  And, both are young enough that there wouldn't yet be any degradation of voice quality due to age.  



> I don't have access to any maps or photographs of the housing community at the moment, and haven't heard or seen any official statements as to where the shooting took place in relation to where Zimmerman's vehicle was parked, where Zimmerman told the dispatcher he was (which was kind of vague anyway), etc.  I shall be interested to see further information in this regard as the story continues to unfold.



Evidence that Trayvon Martin Doubled Back



> I am also interested, while I'm on the subject, to see what the autopsy report has to say about Trayvon Martin's physical position when he was shot.



So far, all the evidence, the mountain of evidence, supports Zimmerman's account.  So, you know how to bet.  If Trayvon was shot in the back, the family would have known and would have made sure the whole world knew.  The autopsy report does say what we already knew, that Trayvon was shot in the chest - a single gunshot to the chest at indeterminate range. 

I'm trying to imagine what possible ace the Prosecution could have to make a viable murder charge.  I have nothing, and the shitheads who defend Trayvon need nothing other than their racial prejudice.  This is purely a political prosecution.


----------



## Againsheila (May 16, 2012)

PredFan said:


> Zimmerman is going to be found not guilty. Every single time REAL evidence comes out, it supports Zimmerman's story. Of course the lynch mob won't accept it and neither will the thick-headed morons here who convicted GZ from the very beginning.
> 
> You want to know a sure way to tell if you are right or wrong? If Al Sharpton is on your side, you are on the wrong side of the issue.



I wouldn't say for sure it would make you wrong, but it would make your side questionable.  I mean even Sharpton has to get it right once in awhile, doesn't he?


----------



## Ariux (May 16, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> I wouldn't say for sure it would make you wrong, but it would make your side questionable.  I mean even Sharpton has to get it right once in awhile, doesn't he?



Our country gives so much favorable treatment to Afros that it's not realistic that Sharpton would ever get a chance to parade around about a real injustice to Afros.   Even the slightest hint of an injustice, real or imagined, to Afros brings swift punishment to whites and quick reward to Afros.  Every cop knows that he'd be screwed if linked to an injustice to Afros.  The prosecutor who declined to charge Zimmerman in the first place knows he'd be fired and never worked again if he were guilty of an injustice to an Afro.  And, Sharpton doesn't need to arrive and arrange even one demonstration for these things to happen.

Sharpton has been in involved in one fraud after another, and they all turn out to be frauds because they necessarily have to be frauds.


----------



## Gadawg73 (May 17, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> > A few comments:
> ...



Most all of that was leaked to the media.
What was left out and what was added?
I tend to believe most of it but none of it is evidence YET.
Unless these witnesses testify in court none of that means anything.


----------



## Gadawg73 (May 17, 2012)

The girl on the phone is HEARSAY evidence.
Probably never get that in. 
You can not cross examine the other party, he is dead.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (May 17, 2012)

geauxtohell said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > geauxtohell said:
> ...



More then likely they would be patrolling black neighborhoods.
So you want more black on black murders?
You're a racist!!


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (May 17, 2012)

auditor0007 said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...



Might have been wearing a baseball cap. Kind of looks that way.


----------



## Katzndogz (May 17, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> No, it's not inconsistent at all.





What it is inconsistent with is what liberals have fabricated based on the fabrications of the media.   That, and a strong belief that if the evidence wasn't presented to the media it didn't exist.  Liberals, who are desperate to have Martin an innocent kid, believed that there was no evidence on Martin's hands that he had beat Zimmerman up, now that there is evidence, they have to find a way to deny that the evidence exists so they say "it wasn't there before".  Of course the evidence was there before, it just wasn't in the media before.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (May 17, 2012)

In a related story. HPD beating of Chad Holley.[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvy976QKuS4]Houston Police BEATING Teen Suspect Chad Holley - YouTube[/ame]
 Just to prove to Truthdoesntmatter and the other race baiting libs that race doesnt enter into the equation.
I believe the cops involved in this should be incarcerated. As any normal person can see the cops went overboard and should be held responsible.

See truthdoesntmatter,when it's obvious a crime was committed regardless of skin color i'm all for convicting those responsible. That's called being "unbiased" maybe you should give it a try.

Curious to see if conservatives agree with me on this matter.....


----------



## mal (May 17, 2012)

Autopsy results reportedly indicate Trayvon Martin suffered injuries to knuckles | Fox News

But I am Certain those who are still Motivated by the _"White Man Guns Down Innocent Black Child Returning Home with Skittles" _Narrative will find a way to Explain why this isn't what it so Obviously is... 



peace...


----------



## Care4all (May 17, 2012)

and Trayvon was NOT shot at close range but from an _intermediate_ distance....wonder what that means?

I had thought that zimmerman shot him when he was on top of him beating him, to save himself from "death", but the report says trayvon was shot from "an intermediate" distance?  what the heck is intermediate distance?


----------



## mal (May 17, 2012)

Care4all said:


> and Trayvon was NOT shot at close range but from an _intermediate_ distance....wonder what that means?
> 
> I had thought that zimmerman shot him when he was on top of him beating him, to save himself from "death", but the report says was shot from "an intermediate" distance?  what the heck is intermediate distance?



Well... I would assume he got away from the beating by a little bit and then Trayvon was coming at him again...

That's what I am going to bet is the Conclusion.

The King Riots x 10 if they don't Convict him on something...

And that's the Saddest part.

There will be no Justice in this.



peace...


----------



## The Infidel (May 17, 2012)

mal said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > and Trayvon was NOT shot at close range but from an _intermediate_ distance....wonder what that means?
> ...



Doubtful on 2nd degree murder... the prosecutor went for too much IMHO, and that was by design.
They want some mayhem if ask me


----------



## geauxtohell (May 17, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



If you think you can use force simply to stop someone from following you, you are a fucking idiot.

And if I were you, I wouldn't bet 20 to life on it.


----------



## geauxtohell (May 17, 2012)

asaratis said:


> NLT said:
> 
> 
> > Truthmatters said:
> ...



Yeah.  The probably don't want to be associated with something a klansman stole.

Shocking, I know.


----------



## Katzndogz (May 17, 2012)

geauxtohell said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > geauxtohell said:
> ...



Trayvon Martin did more, he attacked Zimmerman with the intent of beating him to death.  However, following YOUR logic, Martin should not have used force to stop Zimmerman from following him.

Okay.


----------



## geauxtohell (May 17, 2012)

candycorn said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> > tinydancer said:
> ...



People are invested in this matter for various agendas, but not many seem to be invested in the interest of good law and policy.


----------



## Truthseeker420 (May 17, 2012)

Is this a thug sign?






I'm suprised Bush held up the correct finger.


----------



## geauxtohell (May 17, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



What are you fucking talking about?

You made a curious statement that was wrong.

I pointed out it was wrong.

You insist you are right.

As I said, "don't get your life on it".


----------



## Foxfyre (May 17, 2012)

bucs90 said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like Trayvon did a good job of defending himself - until his stalker shot him.
> ...



We all hope there will be a fair and honest trial and the jury will get the information necessary to arrive at a fair and honest verdict.  None of us honestly KNOW what Zimmerman's motives were because none of us know him and none of us are him.  We only know what we read and that all now seems to be supporting what we have been told is Zimmerman's version of the facts.

We don't KNOW what Martin's behavior was that night because none of us were there and none of us are Martin.  We don't KNOW whether his body language, demeanor, or what he was doing justified attention or a second look to somebody who was a volunteer for Neighborhood Watch or whether he was 'just minding his own business.'

In short none of us KNOW anything more than what we have read.  If we have read only what appears on hate sites and choose to believe that, we will likely get it wrong regardless of which way we lean on this event.  If we have read and thoughtfully consider what has been reported by more reliable sources, then there is reason to believe that Zimmerman's version has some merit.

It is unfortunate that some aren't interested in truth more than they are interested in condemning somebody though.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 17, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > No, it's not inconsistent at all.
> ...



The prosecution apparently turned over . . . what was it, 67 CDs worth of evidence to the defense during discovery.  I'd say there's quite a bit left that hasn't been released to the public.


----------



## Gadawg73 (May 17, 2012)

geauxtohell said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > geauxtohell said:
> ...



The law is innocent until proven guilty and Zimmerman is presumed innocent.
Are you interested in THE LAW or YOUR agenda?
Which is it?


----------



## Gadawg73 (May 17, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



The public should not get ONE piece of evidence in this until the witnesses testify and the evidence is tendered at trial.
Criminal trials should not be tried in the court of public opinion and the media.


----------



## Againsheila (May 17, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



Interesting, and possibly correct.  I know that the evidence as presented thus far has certainly influenced me.


----------



## ginscpy (May 17, 2012)

"If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon Martin."

BaCrack Obama


----------



## Katzndogz (May 17, 2012)

The autopsy report showing Martin was high on pot and the eye witness testimony have just about sunk the prosecution's case.


----------



## OohPooPahDoo (May 17, 2012)

ginscpy said:


> "If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon Martin."
> 
> BaCrack Obama



And?


----------



## Peach (May 17, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> ginscpy said:
> 
> 
> > "If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon Martin."
> ...



Discussion of the killer's drug use meets with scorn, of course, the killer slid by without a drug test. The victim having smoked pot is big news though, sad.


----------



## Ragnar (May 17, 2012)

_If true_ it might explain Martin's apparent paranoia at merely being watched by the neighborhood watch.  May explain why he attacked Zimmerman.


----------



## Ravi (May 17, 2012)

Stoners are rarely violent.

More interesting is the eye witness that put Zimmerman on top.


----------



## zzzz (May 17, 2012)

Marijuana ... could have paranoia there.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 17, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> The autopsy report showing Martin was high on pot and the eye witness testimony have just about sunk the prosecution's case.



Do you have a reliable source for the toxicology info?


----------



## Rat in the Hat (May 17, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > The autopsy report showing Martin was high on pot and the eye witness testimony have just about sunk the prosecution's case.
> ...





> (CNN) -- Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system when he was fatally shot earlier this year by George Zimmerman in Sanford, Florida, according to autopsy results released Thursday.
> 
> Martin's blood contained THC, which is the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, according to an autopsy conducted February 27 -- the day after the teenager was shot dead.
> 
> Toxicology tests found elements of the drug in the teenager's chest blood -- 1.5 nanograms per milliliter of one type (THC), as well as 7.3 nanograms of another type (THC-COOH) -- according to the medical examiner's report. There was also a presumed positive test of cannabinoids in Martin's urine. It was not immediately clear how significant these amounts were.



Autopsy: Drug THC found in Trayvon Martin's system - CNN.com


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 17, 2012)

Rat in the Hat said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



Thank you.


----------



## Katzndogz (May 17, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > The autopsy report showing Martin was high on pot and the eye witness testimony have just about sunk the prosecution's case.
> ...



I heard it on a breaking news report on television.  It's being repeated now again so I assume there will some media link shortly.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 17, 2012)

I also note in this story from CNN that a report was released by the Sanford Fire Department (presumably the employer of the paramedics at the scene) stating that Zimmerman had "abrasions to his forehead," "bleeding/tenderness to his nose," and a "small laceration to the back of his head" when he was treated at the scene.  So I guess that takes care of all the people who want to erroneously claim that the paramedics noticed nothing wrong with him.

I further note that CNN is still pigheadedly clinging to that whole "white Hispanic" thing.  It appears Obama is actually more white than Zimmerman, but has anyone ever heard him referred to as a "white African-American"?  My husband's definitely more white than Zimmerman, and I can tell you no one's ever called him a "white Chinese-American".  What nonsense.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 17, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



Got it.  Thanks.

Not challenging you personally, you understand.  Just trying to keep the division between actual, verifiable fact and evidence and bullshit rumors as clearly marked as possible by way of real links to real news sources (which still, apparently, have to be carefully scrutinized).


----------



## Truthmatters (May 17, 2012)

THC stays in the system for a long time.

But being high on pot is not a reason to be murdered


----------



## BDBoop (May 17, 2012)

Autopsy: Drug THC found in Trayvon Martin's system - CNN.com


----------



## ginscpy (May 17, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> Autopsy: Drug THC found in Trayvon Martin's system - CNN.com



"If I had a son, he would look just like Trayvon Martin"

BaCrackhead Obama


----------



## chikenwing (May 17, 2012)

bdboop said:


> autopsy: Drug thc found in trayvon martin's system - cnn.com



bfd


----------



## Peach (May 17, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> Autopsy: Drug THC found in Trayvon Martin's system - CNN.com



Two threads on this, plus the large number about the victim's school suspension. But posting about the killer's drug use is a no-no.


----------



## tinydancer (May 17, 2012)

I'd like to know how this charge against Zimmerman happened if the Prosecution had all this evidence basically substantiating Zimmerman's claims.

This is nuts if all the Prosecutor did was try to avoid more protests with the likes of Rangel and Jackson.


----------



## AquaAthena (May 17, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> Autopsy: Drug THC found in Trayvon Martin's system - CNN.com


 
Isn't that the main ingredient in pot? Wouldn't that have rendered him pretty mellow???


----------



## Peach (May 17, 2012)

AquaAthena said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > Autopsy: Drug THC found in Trayvon Martin's system - CNN.com
> ...



THC can stay in the body for up to a week, or more, after smoking pot, this does not mean he was high at the time.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (May 17, 2012)

Peach said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
> ...



Up to 30 days, actually.


----------



## AquaAthena (May 17, 2012)

Peach said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
> ...


 
I didn't mean to imply "high" rather, mellow.


----------



## Ariux (May 17, 2012)

tinydancer said:


> I'd like to know how this charge against Zimmerman happened if the Prosecution had all this evidence basically substantiating Zimmerman's claims.
> 
> This is nuts if all the Prosecutor did was try to avoid more protests with the likes of Rangel and Jackson.



Yes, the Prosecutor had all the evidence when she decided to charge Zimmerman.

The Prosecutor is a woman in an elected position.  I'm sure the only thing on her mind is if she didn't charge an innocent man with murder, the liberal media would savage her at election time.   The charge against Zimmerman is nothing more than a spineless state attorney caving to mob pressure.

The local state prosecutor declined to prosecute Zimmerman and then the governor appointed that woman from another county to make the decision whether or not to prosecute.


----------



## Si modo (May 17, 2012)

Peach said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > Autopsy: Drug THC found in Trayvon Martin's system - CNN.com
> ...


See the difference is, there is actual proof about the THC.

Idiot.


----------



## ginscpy (May 17, 2012)

The other thread mentioned THC= paranoia.  (I didnt know that) 

"If I had a son, he would look just like Trayvon Martin"

BaCrack Obama


----------



## Ravi (May 17, 2012)

It's not paranoia if it's true.


> Diagrams also note Martin had a blood spot on his head, a bruise on his eye, and small scarring on both hands, all suggesting he had been in a fight.


Evidence in Trayvon Martin tells story of struggle before fatal shot - CBS News


----------



## Katzndogz (May 17, 2012)

I thought pot users just never became violent.  There is no such thing as marijuana paranoia.    No matter how many reports that dispute those claims.  How are the potheads going to wiggle out of this one.


----------



## zzzz (May 17, 2012)

From personal experience many years ago, I could vouch that at times if you are trippin out you could get paranoid.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (May 17, 2012)

*Threads Merged.*


----------



## Peach (May 17, 2012)

theDoctorisIn said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> > AquaAthena said:
> ...



Thanks, I've read alcohol use can be detected up to two weeks now.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (May 17, 2012)

Peach said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > Peach said:
> ...



I haven't heard about that...

I used to work in a drug and alcohol rehab facility - the only "test" we gave for alcohol was a breathalyzer - which measures current blood alcohol levels (whether you are currently drunk or not). We didn't have anything that would show previous alcohol use before a few hours - certainly not up to 2 weeks.

But there's no doubt the available technology could have changed since then.


----------



## BDBoop (May 17, 2012)

"Drunk drivers run stop signs. Stoned drivers wait for stop signs to turn green."


----------



## Katzndogz (May 17, 2012)

It wouldn't show up in a routine tox screen unless it was in the system at that time.  Hair tests will show up earlier drug use.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (May 17, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> It wouldn't show up in a routine tox screen unless it was in the system at that time.  Hair tests will show up earlier drug use.



Incorrect. Tests will come up "positive" for THC up to 30 days after use.


----------



## thereisnospoon (May 17, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > Zimmerman is going to be found not guilty. Every single time REAL evidence comes out, it supports Zimmerman's story. Of course the lynch mob won't accept it and neither will the thick-headed morons here who convicted GZ from the very beginning.
> ...



If you don't know, don't discuss.


----------



## thereisnospoon (May 17, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> THC stays in the system for a long time.
> 
> But being high on pot is not a reason to be murdered



Maybe not. But the substance in his blood throws the poor little innocent child nonsense presented by the MSM right out of the nearest window.
Besides. You were not there. You do not know the facts. So shut up about it and let the system do it's job.


----------



## LoneLaugher (May 17, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > THC stays in the system for a long time.
> ...



What fucking great advice. Don't you agree?


----------



## Ariux (May 17, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > THC stays in the system for a long time.
> ...



Trayvon is a cold, a punk, and was suspended for pot possession at school. Therefor, we have known for a long time that he had THC in his system.  Everything the autopsy has shown, we already knew beyond a reasonable doubt.  Just like we know beyond a reasonable doubt that Trayvon deserved to get shot that night and that Zimmerman has been arrested purely for political reasons.


----------



## Mr. H. (May 17, 2012)

Tray din' touch Zim. Hiz nukkles was draggin' pavement.


----------



## thereisnospoon (May 17, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> I also note in this story from CNN that a report was released by the Sanford Fire Department (presumably the employer of the paramedics at the scene) stating that Zimmerman had "abrasions to his forehead," "bleeding/tenderness to his nose," and a "small laceration to the back of his head" when he was treated at the scene.  So I guess that takes care of all the people who want to erroneously claim that the paramedics noticed nothing wrong with him.
> 
> I further note that CNN is still pigheadedly clinging to that whole "white Hispanic" thing.  It appears Obama is actually more white than Zimmerman, but has anyone ever heard him referred to as a "white African-American"?  My husband's definitely more white than Zimmerman, and I can tell you no one's ever called him a "white Chinese-American".  What nonsense.



Is it any wonder why CNN's latest ratings are at their lowest in 15 years?


----------



## MuadDib (May 17, 2012)

There is some evidence that indicates that Trayvon had gotten away and was down in the vicinity of Brandy Green's townhouse when he was talking to the girlfriend on the phone. He doubled back and confronted Zimmerman. If this is correct, then Trayvon was the aggressor and it was justified self defense.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

thereisnospoon said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > I also note in this story from CNN that a report was released by the Sanford Fire Department (presumably the employer of the paramedics at the scene) stating that Zimmerman had "abrasions to his forehead," "bleeding/tenderness to his nose," and a "small laceration to the back of his head" when he was treated at the scene.  So I guess that takes care of all the people who want to erroneously claim that the paramedics noticed nothing wrong with him.
> ...



Well, I am now noting that they rushed to put up a different story in place of the one the link attached to earlier, the new one being more biased against Zimmerman, with more speculation and less evidence against him.

Yeah, I'm not wondering why CNN's ratings have taken a dump.


----------



## yidnar (May 18, 2012)

Zimmerman was protecting the neighborhood when he followed Martin ...there had been several home invasions committed by blacks in the past few weeks before the shooting of Treyvon !! i guess cowardly left wing whites and their gorilla shock troops are against neighborhood watches !!


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

yidnar said:


> Zimmerman was protecting the neighborhood when he followed Martin ...there had been several home invasions committed by blacks in the past few weeks before the shooting of Treyvon !! i guess cowardly left wing whites and their gorilla shock troops are against neighborhood watches !!



Well, yeah.  Liberals don't like self-defense.  They think everyone should huddle in their houses, behind a doorful of locks and deadbolts, waiting for the cops to get around to coming and protecting them . . . You know, the way people do in big urban areas when liberals control the city government.


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## mal (May 18, 2012)

MuadDib said:


> There is some evidence that indicates that Trayvon had gotten away and was down in the vicinity of Brandy Green's townhouse when he was talking to the girlfriend on the phone. He doubled back and confronted Zimmerman. If this is correct, then Trayvon was the aggressor and it was justified self defense.



That's about how the Evidence Plays out...

But No Guilty ain't gonna be good for a LOT of Innoncent People.

Someone should take Spike Lee's Twitter Account from him so he isn't a Twat at the time of the Verdict. 



peace...


----------



## Ravi (May 18, 2012)

mal said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > and Trayvon was NOT shot at close range but from an _intermediate_ distance....wonder what that means?
> ...


Right, because you believe black people are animals.

You should get your news from somewhere other than FAUX.



> Diagrams also note Martin had a blood spot on his head, a bruise on his eye, and small scarring on both hands, all suggesting he had been in a fight.



Evidence in Trayvon Martin tells story of struggle before fatal shot - CBS News

I suppose Martin "attacked" Zimmerman with his eye.


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## Ravi (May 18, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> mal said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...


Interesting. You think the Republicans want mayhem? You might be right but that doesn't make it so.


----------



## MuadDib (May 18, 2012)

Whether or not Martin had THC in his system is irrelevent. It all comes down to who threw the first punch.


----------



## mal (May 18, 2012)

Ravi said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > mal said:
> ...



Idiot... That was in Reference to the Media... And probably people like you. 

What a Hammerhead you are. 



peace...


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## Ravi (May 18, 2012)

Right, because the prosecutor is the media.


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## Gadawg73 (May 18, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



Not possibly, 100% correct. I have investigated thousands of cases for jury trial.
It pollutes the jury pool. NO jurist will be selected that has all of the information from media. 
Most all of them will be excused for cause by the Judge and will not be a jury strike by either side during voir dire.
Nothing that has been released is "evidence". Why?
Because NONE OF IT has been subject to cross examination.


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## High_Gravity (May 18, 2012)

ginscpy said:


> "If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon Martin."
> 
> BaCrack Obama



Wow a teenager with pot in his system, who would have thought?


----------



## mal (May 18, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Right, because the prosecutor is the media.



The Prosecutor is "they"?... 



peace...


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## Ravi (May 18, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...


You don't really know a whole lot, do you? The evidence released is part of the public record AND cannot by law be kept secret.


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## rightwinger (May 18, 2012)

Travons knuckles are consistent with someone standing his ground. 

One person had his knuckles to defend himself, the other had a gun


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## gallantwarrior (May 18, 2012)

Care4all said:


> and Trayvon was NOT shot at close range but from an _intermediate_ distance....wonder what that means?
> 
> I had thought that zimmerman shot him when he was on top of him beating him, to save himself from "death", but the report says trayvon was shot from "an intermediate" distance?  what the heck is intermediate distance?



The reports I've read say "less than 18 inches".


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## Gadawg73 (May 18, 2012)

THC can stay in the hair for 40-50 days after inhaling. Hair follicle testing is always done in a wrongful death criminal autopsy. It is the most reliable.


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## gallantwarrior (May 18, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Travons knuckles are consistent with someone standing his ground.
> 
> One person had his knuckles to defend himself, the other had a gun



There's a moral in that statement.


----------



## Gadawg73 (May 18, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



Do you know what voir dire is sweetheart? 
Do you understand the rules of criminal procedure and the tendering of evidence?
NONE of this is evidence until the judge rules it is admissable. Not any of it.
Evidence is not public record until it has been tendered as admissable in court. 
What has been LEAKED is hearsay and biased. What is in the pleadings filed IS public record but how has any of that "evidence" been subject to cross examination if the trial has not even started? That is not evidence, that is work product. 
Every jurist that has done any research into any of the leaked INFORMATION in this case will be excused for cause. In fact, a change of venue will most likely be called for by one sied or the other in this case.
Do you understand what a change of venue is and why they ask for one?
Go back to your CSI show and Kojack re-runs. I do this for a living.


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## roomy (May 18, 2012)

Black scares the shit out of some folk, enough to provoke deadly self defense methinks.


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## Katzndogz (May 18, 2012)

Ariux said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > I'd like to know how this charge against Zimmerman happened if the Prosecution had all this evidence basically substantiating Zimmerman's claims.
> ...



That's why she waited so long.   She was trying to evaluate whether she could fabricate as case out of what she had.  Cases are lost every day.  She could lose and not be responsible.  It's the jury's fault.  It's the judge's fault.  All she had to do was put on some kind of credible show.


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## mal (May 18, 2012)

roomy said:


> Black scares the shit out of some folk, enough to provoke deadly self defense methinks.



Especially when the "Black" person is Assaulting you after you've walked away... 

Good to see the Race issue isn't Dead.

You know Zimmerman's Dad is a Cracker ass Cracker, right?...



peace...


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## roomy (May 18, 2012)

In America are you allowed to kill someone who insults you or threatens to slap you about a bit or do they have to lay hands on you?Are you allowed to walk around with a gun and kill people because you get a little scared?
It's a no brainer to me, maybe we should adopt some of those laws, I would have killed a few these past few months never mind in my lifetime.


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## Si modo (May 18, 2012)

Peach said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > Peach said:
> ...


As EtOH has zero order kinetics of elimination, meaning the only thing the elimination of it from one's system depends on is time, if EtOH were still detected after two weeks, the amount of EtOH consumed would be enough to intoxicate ten Irish Catholic families (and certainly enough to kill any single person).

So, no.  Detection of EtOH in blood after two weeks is physically impossible, unless it's a test on a corpse.


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## The Infidel (May 18, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Travons knuckles are consistent with someone standing his ground.
> 
> One person had his knuckles to defend himself, the other had a gun



This proves you are a jack ass.

First Zimmerman was a racist white man, then Trayvon didnt hit Zimmerman, then Zimmermans injuries were not enough to warrant deadly force, then Zimmerman didnt have a broken nose, now Trayvon was standing HIS ground and Zimmerman was the aggressor.

Damn the contortions you idiots will do to try to prove Zimmerman deserves to die at the hands of an angry mob.


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## The Infidel (May 18, 2012)

roomy said:


> *In America are you allowed to kill someone who insults you or threatens to slap you about a bit or do they have to lay hands on you?Are you allowed to walk around with a gun and kill people because you get a little scared?*
> It's a no brainer to me, maybe we should adopt some of those laws, I would have killed a few these past few months never mind in my lifetime.




Another idiot I see.


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## roomy (May 18, 2012)

Can you die of a broken nose?


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## roomy (May 18, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> roomy said:
> 
> 
> > *In America are you allowed to kill someone who insults you or threatens to slap you about a bit or do they have to lay hands on you?Are you allowed to walk around with a gun and kill people because you get a little scared?*
> ...



You only see what your mommy and poppy learned you to see


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## Katzndogz (May 18, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> ginscpy said:
> 
> 
> > "If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon Martin."
> ...



Teenagers have notoriously bad judgment.  Drug taking decreases the ability to make sound judgments.   It's one of the dangers of drug use.  People make bad judgments all the time and sometimes it costs them their life.  Young men who are full of themselves and think they can take down someone who looks weaker than they are die every day.  Sad, sad.


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## gallantwarrior (May 18, 2012)

roomy said:


> Can you die of a broken nose?



Yes.


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## Katzndogz (May 18, 2012)

MuadDib said:


> Whether or not Martin had THC in his system is irrelevent. It all comes down to who threw the first punch.



Yes, but did the pot in his system impair Martin's judgment enough so that he would fail to perceive the danger in throwing the first punch.  That's the question.


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## The Infidel (May 18, 2012)

Ravi said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > mal said:
> ...



Nope... What do the Republicans have to do with it?

The prosecutor asked for way too much, and the media would love to see some Mayhem in Sanford Fla.
Mayhem by who? Well, guess we will have to sit back and see wont we  (doubtful they will be Republicans either you punk)


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## High_Gravity (May 18, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > ginscpy said:
> ...



A teenager with marijuana in his system really doesn't tell me much though, if you were to round up all the students in a mostly white high school you would find alot of them with THC in their system too, I learned how to smoke weed from a white boy in high school.


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## The Infidel (May 18, 2012)

roomy said:


> Can you die of a broken nose?




No dummy... you CAN die at the hands of the asshole breaking your nose though. Besides, its not like Trayvon just hit him once.
I've been punched in the nose, and I didn't kill anyone.
You or I were not there... we don't know what was going thru Zimmerman's head when he was getting his beating.

Until you have been attacked by a deranged person bold enough to beat the shit out of you in plain sight of the whole world, I dont think you can understand what its like.
Oh I know... I know... you have been beat up before right? Well so have I, and I was scared for my life after about the 10th or 11th punch to my face and head... lucky for me, the man didnt have a weapon because I would have dies that night. No doubt...

Whatever... you have a bias here and its obvious.


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## The Infidel (May 18, 2012)

roomy said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > roomy said:
> ...



Yep... they taught me wrong from right. Get a clue brother.


----------



## American Horse (May 18, 2012)

yidnar said:


> Zimmerman was protecting the neighborhood when he followed Martin ...there had been several home invasions committed by blacks in the past few weeks before the shooting of Treyvon !! i guess cowardly left wing whites and their gorilla shock troops are against neighborhood watches !!



Exactly right; one outcome of this is we'll be afraid to protect ourselves.  It's a dubious honor to be elected neighborhood watch, and at the same time a grave responsibility.  There are many neighborhoods, particularly in Florida, where the safety (and comfort) of the elderly, the vulnerable, and children are made safe because of the willingness of people like Zimmerman to take that responsibility.  Their presence makes drug dealing, muggers, and perverts less likely to hang out there looking for victims or to do their business there in the case of drug dealers.


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## The Infidel (May 18, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Stoners are rarely violent.
> 
> More interesting is the eye witness that put Zimmerman on top.



Stoners and want to be gang bangers are two different thaings dummy.




Zimmerman on top?

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/trayvon-martin/martin-zimmerman-witness-758903


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## Douger (May 18, 2012)

mal said:


> roomy said:
> 
> 
> > Black scares the shit out of some folk, enough to provoke deadly self defense methinks.
> ...


Blacks don't assault people. ******* do.


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## Trajan (May 18, 2012)

uber merge......


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## roomy (May 18, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Stoners are rarely violent.
> ...



Zimmerman would have a field day in my town but all his victims would be white, does that matter?


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## The Infidel (May 18, 2012)

roomy said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



It would be nice if you would act like an adult.


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## mal (May 18, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > The Infidel said:
> ...



That'll be about the end of Unravils in this Thread... 



peace...


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## mal (May 18, 2012)

roomy said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



Idiocy.



peace...


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## BDBoop (May 18, 2012)

MuadDib said:


> Whether or not Martin had THC in his system is irrelevent. It all comes down to who threw the first punch.



Personally, I think it comes down to who didn't let a young man walk home in peace.


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## Katzndogz (May 18, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



You aren't making the right connections.  It's not how many, or how common.  It's whether the THC in their system was enough to impair their judgment to the point where they did not perceive a danger?

Let me try an example.  An all white school, 100 students are at a party and every one of them is high on pot.  ONE student gets in his car, in his judgment 80 miles an hour is a safe speed.  He thinks the road curves right when it curves left and drives off a cliff.   The THC in his system was sufficient to impair his judgment to the point where he could not act safely.  

Put it this way, had this been an inner city neighborhood known to Trayvon Martin to be infested with armed gangs, he likely would not have made the decisions he did.  He assumed he was bigger and badder than shorty over there.   He did not think that shorty would be armed.  He was wrong.


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## The Infidel (May 18, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



More punks need to be wondering that too.

The thugs and gang bangers should not be the only ones carrying weapons.


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## Truthmatters (May 18, 2012)

He was a minor walking home from the store.

A strange man started stalking him.

He asked the man "why are you following me" when the man was near him.

Then a minute later he was dead.


The police have given in their report that Zimmerman could have averted the whole incident by NOT provoking a confrontaation.

He had NO right to stalk and confront the boy.

He caused the inccident


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## High_Gravity (May 18, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



I haven't seen many people violent if they are smoking unless it is laced with something but than again my experience with smoking weed is rather limited, I haven't really touched the stuff since high school and that was more than 10 years ago. We need to have proof that Trayvon was actually high at the time of the altercation to actually discuss this though because weed can stay in your system for a while after you smoke it.


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## roomy (May 18, 2012)

Looks like an unlawful killing to me.


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## Si modo (May 18, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> He was a minor walking home from the store.
> 
> A strange man started stalking him.
> 
> ...


Following someone and confronting them is against the law?

Whew.  Good thing you let me know.  I've broken that law hundreds of times.


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## The Infidel (May 18, 2012)

Si modo said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > He was a minor walking home from the store.
> ...



Roomy and truthmatters were the two witnesses that were there that night.

Why didnt they intervene to keep the evil WHITE guy from killing that innocent young man?


----------



## BDBoop (May 18, 2012)

Si modo said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > He was a minor walking home from the store.
> ...



What was your reason for doing so - and why 'hundreds of times'? I don't think I've ever done that.


----------



## BDBoop (May 18, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Truthmatters said:
> ...



Dude, I've seen Zimmerman supporters on this board talking like they filmed the event, so don't be singling out those two.


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## The Infidel (May 18, 2012)

roomy said:


> Looks like an unlawful killing to me.



Why didnt you stop that evil white guy from killing that innocent young boy?

Why????


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## roomy (May 18, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Truthmatters said:
> ...



Are you kidding me, he might have shot me for wearing the wrong clothes or for speaking in a strange accent


----------



## The Infidel (May 18, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...



Im singling them out because they are in my target zone right now.... Ravi was in it earlier.

I am an equal oppurtunity offender


----------



## Truthmatters (May 18, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Truthmatters said:
> ...



there was a witness there that night on the phone with Trayvon.

She told Trayvon to run when he said some strange man was following him.

She heard Trayvon say to someone "why are you following me".

Then she heard another voice and then the phone went dead.

THEN Trayvon had a bullet hole in his heart.

Those are pure facts of the case.


----------



## Truthmatters (May 18, 2012)

Do you people KNOW the corronor said that Trayvon was shot from some distance?


----------



## Si modo (May 18, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Truthmatters said:
> ...


Yup.  I have.  In the grocery store, for example: "Excuse me, you have my cart".  On the street, for example:  "Excuse me, but your purse scratched my parked car as you walked by it".

Call in the FBI and take me down....now!

So, show me the law that says I don't have a right to follow someone then confront them?

Thanks.


----------



## The Infidel (May 18, 2012)

roomy said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...



Dude you cant be serious by thinking that Zimmerman didn't have a right to defend his self.

If all the EYEwitness accounts are true, and the evidence that police submitted is true... why do we continue to try and hang Zimmerman? 

I have been attacked and nearly killed one night... I was wishing I had a gun, and the cops said that would have been a nightmare for me, and now I see why.

Not saying Trayvon was a bad guy because he smoked weed... I could care less, Hell I smoked it, but he should not have attacked Zimmerman. Bad move...

Roomy, you know that too.... this is why I am giving ya heck man.


----------



## The Infidel (May 18, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...



You do realize that you describe a situation where Trayvon confronted zimmerman right?


----------



## roomy (May 18, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> roomy said:
> 
> 
> > The Infidel said:
> ...



There is no turning back from killing someone matey, it is not defending yourself, it is killing someone, how did he get to his gun and presumably take the safety off and then shoot and kill this kid while as suggested taking a life threatening beating? i am interested as to how it will be shown that the kid was going to kill him.I think Zimmerman is a fucking coward and a murderer.


----------



## Si modo (May 18, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > The Infidel said:
> ...


----------



## The Infidel (May 18, 2012)

roomy said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > roomy said:
> ...



I was not there matey.... but from what I have read, the gun fell out Zimmerman's pants or pocket or something and Trayvon said "oh you have a gun, now your going to die with it" or something similar.
Again, I was not there... *but if that's what happened*, I would have shot too.

Even TM admits that Trayvon confronted Zimmerman... he should NOT have done that. At least not in the manner in which he did it.

Its a sad situation all around.


----------



## Buford (May 18, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Travons knuckles are consistent with someone standing his ground.
> 
> One person had his knuckles to defend himself, the other had a gun



One person got jumped and pummeled so he shot his attacker with his gun.  Case closed.


----------



## roomy (May 18, 2012)

Seems to have been a lot of dialogue going on during this horrific life threating beating that ended with a child dead and a man with a scratch on his head.


----------



## Katzndogz (May 18, 2012)

Way back when I used to smoke, I'd duck outside for a cig when I was visiting others.  NUMEROUS times I was stopped by a neighbor, or building manager and asked what I was doing.  I told them I was visiting and stepped outside for a smoke.  No problem, although a few times my host was contacted to see if they knew me.  This is what happens if someone is asked "what are you doing" when out at night with no good readily apparent purpose.  

The response is not to follow someone back to their car and cold cock them from behind.


----------



## Katzndogz (May 18, 2012)

roomy said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > roomy said:
> ...



Zimmerman was supposed to take his beating like a white guy.  He might have too, if Trayvon Martin had not spotted the gun.


----------



## Truthmatters (May 18, 2012)

Buford said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Travons knuckles are consistent with someone standing his ground.
> ...



what if that one person who was jumped was Trayvon?

you see NO one saw who jumped on who first.

Now who forced a confrontation with someone who was doing nothing illegal?


----------



## Truthmatters (May 18, 2012)

Did Trayvon Follow and stalk Zimmerman or did Zimmerman follow and stalk Trayvon?


----------



## BDBoop (May 18, 2012)

Trajan said:


> uber merge......



Good work, kemo sabe.


----------



## Truthmatters (May 18, 2012)

More details emerge in Trayvon Martin investigation - CNN.com


Trayvon Martin's girlfriend, talking to him on the telephone, heard the teenager saying, "get off, get off" in the moments before his cell phone cut off and he was shot dead, according to a recording of the girl's interview with a prosecutor released Friday.

The recording provides the most detailed look yet into the telephone conversation between the girl and Martin in the moments before he died.


----------



## BDBoop (May 18, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> More details emerge in Trayvon Martin investigation - CNN.com
> 
> 
> Trayvon Martin's girlfriend, talking to him on the telephone, heard the teenager saying, "get off, get off" in the moments before his cell phone cut off and he was shot dead, according to a recording of the girl's interview with a prosecutor released Friday.
> ...



Good share. Thank you.



> "The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog (sic) in an effort to dispel each party's concern" the police request to arrest Zimmerman said. "There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity."


----------



## Truthmatters (May 18, 2012)

She is a young black woman so they will just call her a liar


----------



## BDBoop (May 18, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> She is a young black woman so they will just call her a liar



You realize you are your own worst enemy, right?


----------



## Buford (May 18, 2012)

roomy said:


> Seems to have been a lot of dialogue going on during this horrific life threating beating that ended with a child dead and a man with a scratch on his head.



Yes, that's the media race hustling version.


----------



## Katzndogz (May 18, 2012)

I have been listening to reports as they are released and one of them was the girlfriend's testimony she says nothing about Martin saying get off, get off.  She said the last thing she heard was Martin saying "are you following me" then something she couldn't make out, then the line went dead.

In any event, there are just too many witnesses that say Martin pounding on Zimmerman "MMA style".


----------



## Buford (May 18, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> She is a young black woman so they will just call her a liar



This Black woman is a liar.  Go ahead, defend her.


----------



## roomy (May 18, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> I have been listening to reports as they are released and one of them was the girlfriend's testimony she says nothing about Martin saying get off, get off.  She said the last thing she heard was Martin saying "are you following me" then something she couldn't make out, then the line went dead.
> 
> In any event, there are just too many witnesses that say Martin pounding on Zimmerman "MMA style".



Is that all the witnesses saw or did they also witness the shooting? because if they did why are we wasting time arguing the toss here, we should refer to witness testimony instead.


----------



## koshergrl (May 18, 2012)

'
Interviewed by cops about 90 minutes after the shooting, the  witness--whose name was redacted from police documents--said that he was  inside his home when he heard a &#8220;commotion coming from the walk way&#8221;  behind his residence.
 The man recalled  seeing &#8220;a black male, wearing a dark colored &#8216;hoodie&#8217; on top of a white  or Hispanic male who was yelling for help.&#8221; The black male, he added,  &#8220;was mounted on the white or Hispanic male and throwing punches &#8216;MMA  (mixed martial arts) style.'&#8221;
 The witness--who was in his living room and about 30 feet away from  the confrontation-- said he called out to the two men that he was  dialing 911. &#8220;He then heard a &#8216;pop,&#8217;&#8221; police reported, and saw the black  male &#8220;laid out on the grass.&#8221;


Witness Told Cops He Saw Trayvon Martin Straddling George Zimmerman And Punching Him "MMA Style" | The Smoking Gun


They had a tape of a 911 call that recorded someone yelling for help about 30 times...when the cop asked Trayvon's dad if that was his son...dad said 'no'.


----------



## The Infidel (May 18, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> '
> Interviewed by cops about 90 minutes after the shooting, the  witness--whose name was redacted from police documents--said that he was  inside his home when he heard a commotion coming from the walk way  behind his residence.
> The man recalled  seeing a black male, wearing a dark colored hoodie on top of a white  or Hispanic male who was yelling for help. The black male, he added,  was mounted on the white or Hispanic male and throwing punches MMA  (mixed martial arts) style.'
> The witness--who was in his living room and about 30 feet away from  the confrontation-- said he called out to the two men that he was  dialing 911. He then heard a pop, police reported, and saw the black  male laid out on the grass.
> ...



KG... its easier for folks to believe the media's narrative that an evil white guy stalked and  shot a defenseless little black boy with skittles and iced tea for no good reason.

Thats the conclusion I am coming up with anyway 


Seriously, I get it. At first glance it does not look good, but folks are literally bending over backwards to make this a black vs white thing and its just not. It is a tragedy though.. no mistaking that.


----------



## Buford (May 18, 2012)

Obama has taken the American people into a tunnel of lies and deceit.  We're almost through it so don't give up.  I see light.


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## BDBoop (May 18, 2012)

Buford said:


> Obama has taken the American people into a tunnel of lies and deceit.  We're almost through it so don't give up.  I see light.



Yes! Such a difference from the Bush Administration.


........................ Yeah. That doesn't sound right.


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## Buford (May 18, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> Buford said:
> 
> 
> > Obama has taken the American people into a tunnel of lies and deceit.  We're almost through it so don't give up.  I see light.
> ...



Yep, I agree.  A big difference from the Bush administration.  We knew who Bush was when we voted for him.  Those who voted for Obama are finding out every day we didn't know who we voted for.  Big difference.


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## BDBoop (May 18, 2012)

Buford said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > Buford said:
> ...



Dangling chads, hello.


----------



## Truthmatters (May 18, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> I have been listening to reports as they are released and one of them was the girlfriend's testimony she says nothing about Martin saying get off, get off.  She said the last thing she heard was Martin saying "are you following me" then something she couldn't make out, then the line went dead.
> 
> In any event, there are just too many witnesses that say Martin pounding on Zimmerman "MMA style".



really go get them


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## Buford (May 18, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> Buford said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
> ...



I remember that.  Here's a little bit of info.  Al Gore lost his home state of Tennesee.  If Gore would have won his home state he would have been President and would not have needed Florida.  I find it kinda funny when a person running for President can't win their home state.  God works in mysterious ways.


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## The Infidel (May 18, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> Buford said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
> ...


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## Katzndogz (May 18, 2012)

I am listening to an interview with a former federal prosecutor discussing the facts of this case.  I am getting to understand why the conversation has changed from what the reports say to what is so wrong that the evidence is not proving what we know to be true.

Zimmerman was ordered by the police to not follow Martin.   That's a fact that we know to be true, but the recorded evidence is that the disipatcher said "You don't need to do that".

Trayvon Martin was only reacting to an attack by Zimmerman.  That's a fact we know to be true.  Several witnesses say that Martin was bashing Zimmerman's head into the pavement MMA style.

Martin's father identified a recording of his son screaming for help.  Another fact we know to be true.   Several witnesses saw and heard Zimmerman screaming for help.

Martin's girlfriend testified that she was talking to her boyfriend and the line went dead when the headset was pushed down.   A fact we know to be true, even though from silence you can't know that the reason was a headset being pushed down unless you saw it and she didn't.

It's an accepted fact that Zimmerman was uninjured, but the medical evidence is he had several injuries.

It's a fact that Martin had no injuries to his hands, but the autopsy report says he did.

It's a fact that Zimmerman shot Martin from some distance away, but the autopsy report shows the shot was fired from one inch to eighteen inches away.

It's a fact that Zimmerman had drugs in his system when the only evidence of drugs showed up in Martin's system.

The prosecutor being interviewed went through all the facts, which makes Zimmerman clearly guilty, but ignored all the evidence proving otherwise.

Early this morning, our local news anchor expressed a surpise, on the air, of what was so wrong with the police work, that they are unable to produce evidence proving what we all know to be true.   It was puzzling at the time, not any more.  The problem is with the evidence!  The evidence itself has to be wrong.  It isn't proving what we accept are unarguable facts.


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## The Infidel (May 18, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > I have been listening to reports as they are released and one of them was the girlfriend's testimony she says nothing about Martin saying get off, get off.  She said the last thing she heard was Martin saying "are you following me" then something she couldn't make out, then the line went dead.
> ...



They were brought a long time ago.. you just need to go read the 50 other threads on it.




Dipshit


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## BDBoop (May 18, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > Buford said:
> ...



You're almost to 1337 (leet) rep!


----------



## BDBoop (May 18, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> I am listening to an interview with a former federal prosecutor discussing the facts of this case.  I am getting to understand why the conversation has changed from what the reports say to what is so wrong that the evidence is not proving what we know to be true.
> 
> Zimmerman was ordered by the police to not follow Martin.   That's a fact that we know to be true, but the recorded evidence is that the disipatcher said "You don't need to do that".
> 
> ...



I owe you pos rep for this post, but you appear to contradict yourself in the 4th paragraph.


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## The Infidel (May 18, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> The problem is with the evidence!  The evidence itself has to be wrong.  It isn't proving what we accept are unarguable facts.


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## koshergrl (May 18, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > I am listening to an interview with a former federal prosecutor discussing the facts of this case.  I am getting to understand why the conversation has changed from what the reports say to what is so wrong that the evidence is not proving what we know to be true.
> ...



The point katz is making is that the haters insist that the 'facts' are something other than what the evidence shows. That the 'facts' that continue to be cited are the exact opposite, in fact, of what the evidence shows.


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## Katzndogz (May 18, 2012)

It certainly has changed the conversation from what happened, to how the evidence can be so wrong.


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## koshergrl (May 18, 2012)

What the loons said at the first was that the cops, the DA, and everybody else involved was corrupt..and who could forget the classic 'zimmerman's father pulled strings'...though he was a magistrate some years before in VIRGINIA.......


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## Foxfyre (May 18, 2012)

Not only has the media been soooooo unethical in reporting this incident, and politicans and activisits have been soooooo unethical in trying to spin it in a way that they can capitalize on it, we have a lot of of information that is being put out there as 'facts'.  However, it really comes down to the only irrefutable facts anybody of us know for sure:

1.  It is a fact that we don't KNOW whether Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman in self defense or just because. . . .

2.  It is a fact that we don't KNOW whether George Zimmerman profiled Trayvon Martin and/or intended him any harm. . . .

3.  It is a fact that however it happened, Trayvon Martin was shot dead and George Zimmerman is charged with Second Degree Murder.

Those are the only facts we know for certain and can only speculate about what we read in the media versions re any other 'facts'.

But one other fact is becoming increasingly apparent to me.  A lot of people, including some posting in this thread, don't really care what any other facts are, and are not the least bit interested in finding out  what any other facts are.  They are determined, however, that their chosen set of facts are the only ones that will ever be acceptable.


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## Buford (May 18, 2012)

What we do know is that a number of Democrat race hustlers used this tragedy for political purposes and that is an example of the sickness in this nation perpetuated by the left.


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## Katzndogz (May 18, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Not only has the media been soooooo unethical in reporting this incident, and politicans and activisits have been soooooo unethical in trying to spin it in a way that they can capitalize on it, we have a lot of of information that is being put out there as 'facts'.  However, it really comes down to the only irrefutable facts anybody of us know for sure:
> 
> 1.  It is a fact that we don't KNOW whether Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman in self defense or just because. . . .
> 
> ...



It goes further than individuals posting on a message board.  There are those at every level of the media, political and even judicial spectrum questioning how the evidence can be so wrong.

Mike Nifong chose the wrong procedure in the La Crosse case, he should have just claimed that the evidence was wrong.


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## BDBoop (May 18, 2012)

7-11 video.

Trayvon Martin 7-11 Surveillance Video Released | Breaking News for Black America


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## LilOlLady (May 18, 2012)

You call the little scrapes he got on his head  and face"beat up." I only wish it had been his equal that he has followed and confronted. Some one on meth. 
Trayvon only had a trace of marijuana in his system and would not have affected him al all. Now the effect of *Adderall and Lorazapam *that Zimmerman was on made him violent and agressive. 
Is this the same marijuana that you people want to legalize as safe? You want to legalize it and demonize the user?
Marijuana do not make one agressive or violent, Adderall do. If Trayvon was high on marijuana he probably would have gave Zimmerman a hug and kissed him. The trace was so low it showed he was not a regular user. What the hell was wrong with Zimmerman that he had to take Adderal and Lorazapam?

There were no eyewitness that showed what Zimmerman did to provoke Trayvon to beat the shit out of him. 
Gun shot was 1 to 3 feet away and did not go through which may mean Taryvon was not on him at the time Zimmerman shot him.
If Zimmerman had kept his ass in his car and continured on to target, Trayvon would be alive. Instead Adderall in has system clouded his judgement and made him feel that he was not accountable to any one Trayvon was one ****** that would not "get away" this time. IF he is not a racist,he is a mental case and should be evaluated. We have not heard all that will come out about Zimmerman.
Half the teenagers in the county use marijuana. I use it for M.S. symptoms and it mellows the hell out of me.


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## LilOlLady (May 18, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> 7-11 video.
> 
> Trayvon Martin 7-11 Surveillance Video Released | Breaking News for Black America



WTF has this to do with anything?


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## Gadawg73 (May 18, 2012)

roomy said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > roomy said:
> ...



We are a nation of LAWS, not a nation of what you think.
The law is that Zimmerman had a carrying permit legally and the law is that he can stand his ground when attacked and use deadly force if he has to.
Something about the rule of law, not men and their beliefs.


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## LilOlLady (May 18, 2012)

Buford said:


> What we do know is that a number of Democrat race hustlers used this tragedy for political purposes and that is an example of the sickness in this nation perpetuated by the left.



There has not been anything political to be use at all in this case. What Democrat hustless. Most of the media has been by FOXNEWS and othe white people who want to save zimmerman' ass.


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## Sallow (May 18, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> roomy said:
> 
> 
> > The Infidel said:
> ...



And it's against the law to hunt human beings.

Whether or not you have a legal permit to carry a gun.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

theDoctorisIn said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > It wouldn't show up in a routine tox screen unless it was in the system at that time.  Hair tests will show up earlier drug use.
> ...



But at what levels?  I don't know much about THC levels, but given that some people rushed to point out that there can often be a "spike" in the levels right after death, the amounts the autopsy found must have been kind of high.


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## Katzndogz (May 18, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> roomy said:
> 
> 
> > The Infidel said:
> ...



Don't count on this being a nation of laws.  This case is an illustration of how that might change.  This is a case in which there is a collision between judicial justice and social justice.  The ends of social justice will not be served in the rule of law is followed.  That's why the evidence that does not prove accepted social facts is wrong.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

MuadDib said:


> Whether or not Martin had THC in his system is irrelevent. It all comes down to who threw the first punch.



Since there's not a chance in hell of ever settling that question, what does that leave?


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## LilOlLady (May 18, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> roomy said:
> 
> 
> > The Infidel said:
> ...



Neighborhood Watch are not allowed to carry weapons of anykind or confront anyone. They only can observe and call 911 and that is all. Trayvon had the right to stand his ground and fight when he thought his life was threaten and being followed by a man that look a crazy gang banger and confronted.
You don't pick a fight and when you are getting your ass kicked pull a gun and shot someone and call it self defense and standing your ground.  Not in America? It's called MURDER.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

gallantwarrior said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > and Trayvon was NOT shot at close range but from an _intermediate_ distance....wonder what that means?
> ...



I believe "intermediate" is a way of saying, "the gun was close, but not pressed up against his skin".  There was stippling on Martin's skin, so it couldn't have been too far away.


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## Gadawg73 (May 18, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> MuadDib said:
> 
> 
> > Whether or not Martin had THC in his system is irrelevent. It all comes down to who threw the first punch.
> ...



In a manslaughter case you have an excellent point.
But in a murder charge no way. The burden of proof is intent to kill from the start and there was no intent to kill from the start.
If there was then there would have never been a struggle on the ground.
No way a jury convicts on murder in this. How could they?
The Judge's charge in every state in the country on murder is "Jurists, unless you find that the defendant had the intent to kill the deceased from the time he first encountered him you must find the defendant not guilty."
Facts sure are a bitch. The law is even harder for the dumbmasses to understand.
This is an involuntary manslaughter case from the word go. 
10 years to serve 1-3. 
Zimmerman walks on the murder charge if that is all they are charged on before the jury goes out.
Book it.


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## LilOlLady (May 18, 2012)

He should not have attacked Zimmerman? He had no choice when Zimmerman provoke him into attacking him so he could shoot him and call it self defense. Zimmerman did not throw one punch. Isn't that strange? Instinct would have taken over and there would have been one hell of a fist fight. He could have landed one punch and got the 140 kid off him. He made the choice long before the confronted Trayvon. This was a plan of is not to "let this ass hole get away."


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## Buford (May 18, 2012)

LilOlLady said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > roomy said:
> ...



Zimmerman had a license to carry a concealed weapon.  You're wrong.  Please stop contributing to the hysteria.


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## Gadawg73 (May 18, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...



"intermediate" range means the forensic testing can not determine how close the range was but that it was not point blank. Powder and impact determines the closeness. You rarely ever get closer than 6 inches unless the victim is asleep or it is a contract assasination hit where that shot is after the victim is down from the first shots. One shot killings are rarely less than the intermediate range.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> MuadDib said:
> 
> 
> > Whether or not Martin had THC in his system is irrelevent. It all comes down to who threw the first punch.
> ...



Frankly, I think the marijuana in Martin's system is less about his aggression than speaking to his behavior which initially made Zimmerman suspicious of him.  Zimmerman told the dispatcher on the phone that the guy "looked like he was on drugs or something", and now we know that, in fact, he was.  So it goes to corroborating Zimmerman's story that, rather than maliciously profiling Martin simply because Zimmerman didn't like blacks, he really was legitimately suspicious of a stranger in his neighborhood behaving oddly.


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## Gadawg73 (May 18, 2012)

LilOlLady said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > roomy said:
> ...



You are right that possibly Martin also had the right to stand his ground.
But if Martin threw the first punch then the law is not on his side.
Sorry that does not fit your biased and prejudiced opinion. 
You were not there. You do not know who threw the first punch.


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## Buford (May 18, 2012)

Those of you who are Democrats should be ashamed of yourselves.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmg1aY6_AJI]Rep. Frederica Wilson (D-Fla) - YouTube[/ame]


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## koshergrl (May 18, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



yup.

And i've given a lot of drug tests. THC hardly ever shows up for 30 days. There's the POTENTIAL for it, but it's rare.


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## Gadawg73 (May 18, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > MuadDib said:
> ...



All maybes.
THC can stay in the hair for 40-50 days and I guarantee it was hair follicle test.
No one knows when he smoked his last twisty. Maybe that is why he was out in the first place but maybe is all we have.
And maybes are nothing.


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## LilOlLady (May 18, 2012)

Stand your ground law do not apply in this case no matter how much Taryvon fucked him up. *Picking the fight *won't work as it has *already been ruled *(and even the *Supreme Court case that set up the precedence *makes this distinction) that *starting a fight invalidates the defense*.

"*Stand your ground" equates to "kill anyone you want to". *I don't think so.


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## BDBoop (May 18, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...



I don't even play an attorney on TV, but I have to think that Zimmerman's actions determined what happened next. Martin was going home to watch the game. He bought snacks, he was going home. If Zimmerman had been on a different street, that's what would have happened. 

IOW, Martin was not operating in a vacuum.


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## LilOlLady (May 18, 2012)

Buford said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...



Not as Neighborhood watch.


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## Foxfyre (May 18, 2012)

LilOlLady said:


> Buford said:
> 
> 
> > LilOlLady said:
> ...



He wasn't on neighborhood watch the night of the shooting.


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## Buford (May 18, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > LilOlLady said:
> ...



How do you know Martin was going home?  Who said that?


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## Buford (May 18, 2012)

LilOlLady said:


> Buford said:
> 
> 
> > LilOlLady said:
> ...



He wasn't on neighborhood watch.  Please stop contributing to the hysteria.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> He was a minor walking home from the store.
> 
> A strange man started stalking him.
> 
> ...



Yeah?  Prove any of that, bitch.

The police did NOT give a report saying that "Zimmerman shouldn't have provoked a confrontation", but thank you so much for sharing your gratuitous projection of nonsense onto what they ACTUALLY said.  I was having a real shortage of ignorant bullshit in my day, and you filled out the quota nicely.

ONE investigator ALLEGEDLY said (because I sure as hell haven't seen any evidence of the media's claim; haven't even seen them naming the investigator) that Zimmerman could have avoided the incident by not getting out of his car.  I realize that in your diseased little peabrain, "getting out of the car" and "provoking a confrontation" are the same thing, but then, in your diseased little peabrain, you and a rational human being are the same thing, and it's obvious THAT isn't true.

Try to comprehend, if it's not too much of a strain for your two brain cells, that there is no law against getting out of one's car.  There is no criminal culpability in walking down a sidewalk, even if you're doing it to see where someone went.  There is no legal obligation not to look at people, nor is there a legal obligation not to be curious.  

Everything else you said, of course, is complete and utter speculation and horseshit, just like everything else that spews from you.


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## LilOlLady (May 18, 2012)

Use of *deadly force was not necessary either*. Trayvon weighed 140 lbs and had nothing but his fist and a bag of skittles and Zimmerman was a180 lb man on Adderall and he had an advantage over this kid.
HIs injuries at the time of the incident do not coincide to the injuries he presented to the doctor the next day. stratches on the back of his head not done by one's head being bashed into concrete. Barely bleeding and did not even need a bandage?
I thing the lady has enough evidence to convict him and could have gone for 1st degree premediated murder.
A fifth grader could take this case and win.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Truthmatters said:
> ...



I don't doubt for a second that you're one of those people who, when a crime is committed in your neighborhood, "didn't see or hear nothin', don't wanna get involved".


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## Foxfyre (May 18, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Not only has the media been soooooo unethical in reporting this incident, and politicans and activisits have been soooooo unethical in trying to spin it in a way that they can capitalize on it, we have a lot of of information that is being put out there as 'facts'.  However, it really comes down to the only irrefutable facts anybody of us know for sure:
> ...



If we are to believe the latest information we have in the Martin/Zimmerman case, there has been a lot reported that was 'wrong, not the least of which was that affidavit that was used as  a justification for the murder charge.  If all that we have recently learned is true, then the ONLY decent thing would be to drop the murder charge for now and send the case to a Grand Jury to hear all the evidence and come to a conclusion if there is sufficient evidence for an indictment.


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## LilOlLady (May 18, 2012)

Does not matter who threw the first punch. Zimmerman did something to provoke this kid. He could have pushed him and provoked him into attacking him so he could shoot  him and call it self defense. Does not matter that Trayvon threw the first punch. He had a right to if he felt threateded and stood his ground. You don't wait to get shot.
The man in the park shot first because he felt threaten and he got off on grounds of self defense and standing your ground. That is what the stand your ground mean.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...



No, fool.  The "pure facts of the case" are that the unidentified woman SAYS this conversation happened.  There is no proof as to what was said; there is only proof that she was on the phone with Martin at 7:12 pm.  Furthermore, not only does her version of the conversation sound extremely contrived and unrealistic, it also doesn't fit the timeline and events set out by Zimmerman's call to the police - which WAS recorded - or that set out by eyewitnesses.

The pure fact is that you're a mouthbreather who only hears what supports the half-assed view of the world you want to believe.  It's the pure fact in this case, just like it's the pure fact in every other topic you poison with your worthless, nothing-intelligent-to-say presence.

When we need a village idiot, we'll call you.


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## Sallow (May 18, 2012)

LilOlLady said:


> Stand your ground law do not apply in this case no matter how much Taryvon fucked him up. *Picking the fight *won't work as it has *already been ruled *(and even the *Supreme Court case that set up the precedence *makes this distinction) that *starting a fight invalidates the defense*.
> 
> "*Stand your ground" equates to "kill anyone you want to". *I don't think so.



Which is basically what this comes down too.


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## Buford (May 18, 2012)

LilOlLady said:


> Use of *deadly force was not necessary either*. Trayvon weighed 140 lbs and had nothing but his fist and a bag of skittles and Zimmerman was a180 lb man on Adderall and he had an advantage over this kid.
> HIs injuries at the time of the incident do not coincide to the injuries he presented to the doctor the next day. stratches on the back of his head not done by one's head being bashed into concrete. Barely bleeding and did not even need a bandage?
> I thing the lady has enough evidence to convict him and could have gone for 1st degree premediated murder.
> A fifth grader could take this case and win.



A fifth grader has more sense than to post hysterical trash like that.


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## Sallow (May 18, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > The Infidel said:
> ...



The cell phone records back up the fact she was on the phone with her boyfriend.


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## koshergrl (May 18, 2012)

i don't need a law to tell me that when somebody is on top of my beating me MMA style, and my 3 dozen screams for help avail me none, I can shoot the fucker.


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## Sallow (May 18, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > MuadDib said:
> ...



Pretty close to agreeing with you here.

It's what it should have been in the beginning..manslaughter. The police did Zimmerman a disservice by letting him go.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> Do you people KNOW the corronor said that Trayvon was shot from some distance?



Do you subhumans KNOW what "intermediate range" is, or does it have too many syllables for you?

"Intermediate range", according to forensics experts, means anywhere between one to eighteen inches.  In other words, the gun was close, but not pressed up against his skin.  This would, of course, coincide with the stippling on Martin's skin that was also reported in the autopsy.  (Stippling, since I know you're too stupid to feed yourself without using a safety spoon, is a circular pattern of dots created around a gunshot wound from close proximity to the skin.)


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## Buford (May 18, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> i don't need a law to tell me that when somebody is on top of my beating me MMA style, and my 3 dozen screams for help avail me none, I can shoot the fucker.



City kids of all colors are murdering each other every day and no one says a word.  This case fit the template because of the law in Florida.  This tragedy was used and it looks like some idiots are still using it to promote the leftist hateful agenda.  Sad to watch how politics is injected into everything in this wonderful country now by the left.  Very sick, indeed.


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## Foxfyre (May 18, 2012)

LilOlLady said:


> Use of *deadly force was not necessary either*. Trayvon weighed 140 lbs and had nothing but his fist and a bag of skittles and Zimmerman was a180 lb man on Adderall and he had an advantage over this kid.
> HIs injuries at the time of the incident do not coincide to the injuries he presented to the doctor the next day. stratches on the back of his head not done by one's head being bashed into concrete. Barely bleeding and did not even need a bandage?
> I thing the lady has enough evidence to convict him and could have gone for 1st degree premediated murder.
> A fifth grader could take this case and win.



How do you know George Zimmerman's weight?  The police report didn't specify but did list his height as 5'9".

Trayvon Martin's height is listed as 6' and 160 pounds on the police record.  Were you there to assess Zimmerman's injuries or are you depending on the biased media reports and hate sites that initially said neither Martin nor Zimmerman showed any sign of a scuffle, quite contrary to what the autopsy report and subsequent photos indicated.

I'm not buying that the gun was fired anywhere from 1 inch to 18 feet away from the victim.  If fired at 1 inch, powder residue would be apparent on Martin's body.  And if that is the case, and that will be evident at the trial, that also supports Zimmerman's version of the facts.

I am getting very weary of people claiming to know facts that none of us know, and condemning one or the other of the parties involved without knowing what the facts are.


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## BDBoop (May 18, 2012)

Buford said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...



Earliest reports, that was known. He was watching the NBA All Star game.


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## BDBoop (May 18, 2012)

LilOlLady said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > 7-11 video.
> ...



Evidence. People have claimed Trayvon probably stole the iced tea and Skittles. How was his demeanor? Was he jumped up, looking for a fight? No, he was easygoing and calm.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> roomy said:
> 
> 
> > The Infidel said:
> ...



According to statements by Zimmerman's father - which one presumes are repeating what Zimmerman told him - Zimmerman's jacket flopped open during the struggle, revealing the gun, and Martin then said, "Now you're gonna die", and went for the gun.  They struggled for it, and Zimmerman shot him.

And it seems highly unlikely at this point that anyone other than George Zimmerman is ever going to know for sure whether or not that's what actually happened.


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## BDBoop (May 18, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > roomy said:
> ...



Oh, that's good because everybody knows Zimmerman is actually completely incapable of telling a lie to cover his ass.

I have read it in books.


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## Buford (May 18, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> Buford said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
> ...



He was in possession of burglary tools.  How do you know he wasn't scoping the neighborhood for his next job?


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## BDBoop (May 18, 2012)

Buford said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > Buford said:
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You've got your timeline mixed up.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Way back when I used to smoke, I'd duck outside for a cig when I was visiting others.  NUMEROUS times I was stopped by a neighbor, or building manager and asked what I was doing.  I told them I was visiting and stepped outside for a smoke.  No problem, although a few times my host was contacted to see if they knew me.  This is what happens if someone is asked "what are you doing" when out at night with no good readily apparent purpose.
> 
> The response is not to follow someone back to their car and cold cock them from behind.



My oldest son is 16, and looks more or less Caucasian, and still comes under more scrutiny when he goes places by himself than an older person would.  Store clerks watch him more closely, the police are more likely to stop next to him on the street and ask him what he's doing if he's out late, and I would assume the neighbors would be more suspicious of him if he were to wander around the neighborhood and they didn't already know him.  It's the nature of being an adolescent boy, particularly in areas with crime problems.

The correct response is either a) address the other person calmly and politely, or b) run the hell away if you feel endangered.  It is not EVER c) get up in someone's face and demand to know what their problem is.

Pity Trayvon Martin's parents didn't bother to teach him that they way I taught it to Nicky.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> roomy said:
> 
> 
> > The Infidel said:
> ...



Don't be silly.  Zimmerman was supposed to huddle terrified behind his locked door, praying that the cops would protect him, and not give a shit about his neighborhood or his neighbors.

We'll have none of that silly self-protection nonsense around here.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> Buford said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



According to the evidence, that would be Trayvon Martin.


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## Buford (May 18, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> Buford said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
> ...



My point is Tryvon Martin was the kid who was in trouble often, not Zimmerman.  How do you know Martin wasn't scoping the neighborhood when he is a known thief?


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> More details emerge in Trayvon Martin investigation - CNN.com
> 
> 
> Trayvon Martin's girlfriend, talking to him on the telephone, heard the teenager saying, "get off, get off" in the moments before his cell phone cut off and he was shot dead, according to a recording of the girl's interview with a prosecutor released Friday.
> ...



My, my, my.  More unprovable hearsay from a girl with a clear agenda.  THAT'LL certainly convince people . . . provided they're imbeciles like you.

Call me when you have some _real _evidence.


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## Buford (May 18, 2012)

I have a great idea.  Let's all play a game.  Let's all pretend this tragedy isn't being used by the leftist democrats to make political hay with.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> 7-11 video.
> 
> Trayvon Martin 7-11 Surveillance Video Released | Breaking News for Black America



And?


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

LilOlLady said:


> You call the little scrapes he got on his head  and face"beat up." I only wish it had been his equal that he has followed and confronted. Some one on meth.
> Trayvon only had a trace of marijuana in his system and would not have affected him al all. Now the effect of *Adderall and Lorazapam *that Zimmerman was on made him violent and agressive.
> Is this the same marijuana that you people want to legalize as safe? You want to legalize it and demonize the user?
> Marijuana do not make one agressive or violent, Adderall do. If Trayvon was high on marijuana he probably would have gave Zimmerman a hug and kissed him. The trace was so low it showed he was not a regular user. What the hell was wrong with Zimmerman that he had to take Adderal and Lorazapam?
> ...



Really, Lil Ol Bitch?  Zimmerman "was on drugs and they made him aggressive"?  Prove it.  Show me the results of his drug test.

"There were no eyewitness that showed what Zimmerman did to provoke Trayvon"?  Then how do you know Zimmerman provoked him?  And by the way, what fucking drug are YOU on to type such an incoherent bundle of drivel?

The only racist here is the inarticulate bitch who just said "Trayvon was one ******* *that would not "get away" this time."  Thanks for demonstrating to us just what a useless piece of shit you really are.  No more analysis of your posts ever needed, Klan Hag.  

As with all other worthless shit, you are FLUSHED!


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

Sallow said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
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> > roomy said:
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Would that it was illegal to be as pig-stupid and irrelevant as you are.  I know you have a Constitutional right to be a moron, but you're really abusing it.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
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> > roomy said:
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It's interesting to me how often the ends of social justice preclude any sort of legal justice, or the rule of law.  This tells me that "social justice" isn't justice at all, and that it's not something anyone should actually want.


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## BDBoop (May 18, 2012)

Buford said:


> BDBoop said:
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> > Buford said:
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Really? You don't know much about your boy, do you.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

Buford said:


> BDBoop said:
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Well, actually, given the diagrams of the various locations in the community, that probably was his eventual destination.  His father's girlfriend's townhouse was at the other end of the sidewalk where Martin was shot.


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## MikeK (May 18, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> > sorry they have pictures of him, Good luck with that though...
> ...


Unless it can be shown that Zimmerman initiated the assault, I can't see how any charges against him can be supported.  This is major evidence in his favor.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

Sallow said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
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I know, dumb shit.  I just said that.  Is English not your first language?


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## Sallow (May 18, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Sallow said:
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You have the constitutional right to be a racist bitch slut as well.

And I fully support your right to be a racist bitch slut.


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## Sallow (May 18, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Sallow said:
> 
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> > Cecilie1200 said:
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It's my second language..the first being wolf.

Don't hate on the wolf.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> > Use of *deadly force was not necessary either*. Trayvon weighed 140 lbs and had nothing but his fist and a bag of skittles and Zimmerman was a180 lb man on Adderall and he had an advantage over this kid.
> ...



Fox, honey, the reason the autopsy report states that it was fired at "intermediate range" - which is 1 to 18 inches - is because they found conditions around the wound consistent with that.  As I've said a couple of times, the report also included stippling around the wound.

So why are you "not buying it"?


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## Sallow (May 18, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> Buford said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
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Well Martin wasn't a "known thief" in that charges were never made on him. And actually..he's never been arrested.

Unlike Zimmerman..who's beat up a cop..and a former girlfriend.

I really hope that comes up in the trial.


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## Buford (May 18, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> Buford said:
> 
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I notice your bob and weave here and getting personal.  I'll take that as evidence you're done here.


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## Buford (May 18, 2012)

Sallow said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
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> > Buford said:
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Was Martin having any problems at school?  What role were his parents playing in his personal and school problems?


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > The Infidel said:
> ...



You're right.  Let's just discount everything Zimmerman has said as a lie, and go from there.  Absolutely no reason to even mention it or consider it.

Meanwhile, let's be sure to view Martin's girlfriend's hearsay testimony as gospel truth, is that it?

Perhaps you could lose the kneejerk "You're defending Zimmerman, and he HAS to be guilty!" reaction every once in a while, hmmm?


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## Sallow (May 18, 2012)

Buford said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > Buford said:
> ...



U.S. News - Zimmerman accused of domestic violence, fighting with a police officer

That work?


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## koshergrl (May 18, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> Buford said:
> 
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Seriously..did you just call zimmerman boy?

Nobody, but nobody, except loons, are painting him as any sort of troubled. At first the meme was that he was a nutcase...and when it become obvious that he wasn't, the term that was used to describe him was 'complicated'. Instead of saying "we were wrong about what we said' they chose 'complicated' to explain the huge gap between the killer portrayed by the press, and what they found later to be true.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

Buford said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > Buford said:
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He what?  Burglary tools?  What?  What the fuck are you talking about?


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## Sallow (May 18, 2012)

Buford said:


> Sallow said:
> 
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> > BDBoop said:
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What do you mean by "problems"?

Was he doing anything out of the ordinary for a kid his age?


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

Sallow said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
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And should I ever be so desperate as to want to be your girlfriend, I will certainly consider becoming a racist bitch slut.

Until then, maybe you could try saying something that is relevant to either the topic or to the people discussing it, because no one is interested in your delusions and lame-ass, random attempts at insults.


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## Buford (May 18, 2012)

Sallow said:


> Buford said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
> ...



Meet The Real Trayvon Martin: Evidence Emerges He Was A Drug Dealer And Gang Banger « Pat Dollard

That work?


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

Sallow said:


> Buford said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
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Yes, actually, most kids in high school DON'T get suspended.


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## koshergrl (May 18, 2012)

The charges against Zimmerman were dropped. That's what they don't share.


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## Buford (May 18, 2012)

Sallow said:


> Buford said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



Meet The Real Trayvon Martin: Evidence Emerges He Was A Drug Dealer And Gang Banger « Pat Dollard


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

Buford said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > Buford said:
> ...



Umm, who's Pat Dollard, and why am I taking his word for anything?


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> The charges against Zimmerman were dropped. That's what they don't share.



Technically, no charges were ever filed at all, until the media and the public decided they were better positioned to mete out justice than the Florida legal system.


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## Sallow (May 18, 2012)

Buford said:


> Sallow said:
> 
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> > Buford said:
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No.

But feel free. I will even accept something from FOX..which I don't consider news.


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## Katzndogz (May 18, 2012)

What would most people do.  You are walking along when a strange man comes up to you and says "What are you doing here?"  What's your first impulse, to deck the guy or say "I"m on my way to my Dad's house to watch the game."  Or even tell the guy off.  You got no right to question me, I got rights!  Or do you just start punching?


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## Buford (May 18, 2012)

Sallow said:


> Buford said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
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You have enough to keep you busy without erecting a FOX strawman.  

Trayvon Martin was apparently a 17 year old undisciplined punk thug, drug dealing, thief and wannabe gangsta&#8230; | The Last Refuge


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## Ravi (May 18, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...


The autopsy is biased? You're an idiot.


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## Buford (May 18, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> What would most people do.  You are walking along when a strange man comes up to you and says "What are you doing here?"  What's your first impulse, to deck the guy or say "I"m on my way to my Dad's house to watch the game."  Or even tell the guy off.  You got no right to question me, I got rights!  Or do you just start punching?



A few years ago we had evidence of a meth lab and burglaries in our neighborhood and we live in a very rural area so that was not normal.  We began a block watch and confronted anyone who looked like they were not from there.  Yes, we were armed.  We still are and our neighborhood is clean and quiet.  We eradicated the problem after we found out exactly where the problem was, and the cops did the rest.  I was in the exact same position as Zimmerman, but they knew I was armed.  If Trayvon would have known Zimmerman was armed, he would probably still be alive.  Shit happens when you play gangster and hopefully other young men will learn a valuable lesson here.


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## Ravi (May 18, 2012)

roomy said:


> In America are you allowed to kill someone who insults you or threatens to slap you about a bit or do they have to lay hands on you?Are you allowed to walk around with a gun and kill people because you get a little scared?
> It's a no brainer to me, maybe we should adopt some of those laws, I would have killed a few these past few months never mind in my lifetime.


In Florida, it seems, you can kill someone because you get a little scared. Or pretend to be....


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> What would most people do.  You are walking along when a strange man comes up to you and says "What are you doing here?"  What's your first impulse, to deck the guy or say "I"m on my way to my Dad's house to watch the game."  Or even tell the guy off.  You got no right to question me, I got rights!  Or do you just start punching?



Well, being a woman, I'd be a lot more freaked out by being approached by a strange man after dark.  On the other hand, most men understand that and approach females differently than they do other males, for fear of being accused of attempted rape or something.

But your point is valid.  One does not usually take being merely questioned about one's activities as a cause for physical violence, assuming that that's even what actually happened here.


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## Ravi (May 18, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > The Infidel said:
> ...


The prosecutor was hand picked by Rick Scott, who is a Republican. I believe she is one as well.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

Buford said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > Buford said:
> ...



Dude, about the blog sites . . .

It's certainly up to you if you want to read them and even if you want to take them as gospel carved in stone.  But they're opinion columns, not news sources, and it would be nice if we could keep the actual, verifiable evidence separate from the rumors and "this is what it sounds like to me".


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## Buford (May 18, 2012)

Ravi said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



Race hustling Democrats like Frederika Wilson created this mess, so what's your point?


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## mal (May 18, 2012)

Ravi said:


> roomy said:
> 
> 
> > In America are you allowed to kill someone who insults you or threatens to slap you about a bit or do they have to lay hands on you?Are you allowed to walk around with a gun and kill people because you get a little scared?
> ...



Don't forget the part about Reacting to a Physical Assault. 

Hate for you to Appear a Liar. 



peace...


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## Buford (May 18, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Buford said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



MSNBC used Democrat race hustlers to build this mess.  Is that what you mean by using a"news source"?


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

Buford said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Buford said:
> ...



You don't know how to pick through a news story and separate the biased writing from the actual facts?

The fact that the mainstream media feels the need to editorialize while presenting information doesn't make it okay to equate opinion blogs with news.

If I'm going to smack down the liberals for posting rumor and opinion as fact, I have to be fair about it.


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## Buford (May 18, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Buford said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



Okay, I'll allow you to use me so you're not accused of bias, but only this once.


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## Ariux (May 18, 2012)

mal said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > In Florida, it seems, you can kill someone because you get a little scared. Or pretend to be....
> ...



What makes liberal shitheads so stupid isn't that they defend Trayvon by accusing Zimmerman of shooting just for being a little scared.  What makes them stupid is that they think telling lies for Liberalism is okay.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

Buford said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
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> > Buford said:
> ...



Way to miss the point.

Let me put it another way:  you're lowering yourself to lib levels when you try to use opinion columns as a source.  Your links are no better than leftist links to Huffington Post.

Let's keep it to verifiable evidence, please.


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## Ravi (May 18, 2012)

Ariux said:


> mal said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


In Florida, you don't have to be assaulted to get off on SYG.

But it's wonderful that you two racists back each other up.


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## Buford (May 18, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Buford said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



Nope.  My links are better than links to the Huffington Post.  I stand by my links because I know what I'm doing.  Don't paint me with that broad brush or put me in the same box with the lefty liars.  If you find an error in my link, then please inform me.  Until then, I will continue to make my posts.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 18, 2012)

Buford said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Buford said:
> ...



The error is that your link is OPINION.  I don't link to Townhall.com as a news source, no matter how much I like what their columnists have to say, because it's all OPINION, ie. not verifiable.

If you want to staunchly defend your right to cloud the issue with rumor and innuendo, go ahead.  You have no one to blame but yourself if you end up being treated with exactly the same contempt and disrespect as the liberals are by the very people who you thought should be agreeing with you and supporting you.  

This conversation is over, and you're just another lightweight _poseur _embarrassing the real conservatives.


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## Buford (May 18, 2012)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Buford said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



Hey, buster.  You're not the judge around here of what or who is a real conservative.  Elitists like you are as big a problem as the damn liberals.  The people who clouded this issue work for MSNBC and the Democrat Party.  You better find out what's really going on before you start telling people who the "real conservatives" are.  Elitists in BOTH parties are the problem.  Not me, pal.


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## Againsheila (May 18, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> What would most people do.  You are walking along when a strange man comes up to you and says "What are you doing here?"  What's your first impulse, to deck the guy or say "I"m on my way to my Dad's house to watch the game."  Or even tell the guy off.  You got no right to question me, I got rights!  Or do you just start punching?



I wouldn't be walking alone at night, but if I did, and someone was following me, I'd go up to the nearest house with a light on and ask them for help and to call the police.  Had Trayvon done that, he'd still be alive.  Had he not been high on drugs, he might have thought a little before attacking the man.  If he's following you, he could be dangerous.


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## Gadawg73 (May 19, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



The autopsy report is not public record. There is NO law that prevents the autopsy report from being released. 
Where is there a law that states that the autopsy report MUST BE RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC?
Does not exist. 
Toxicology results were in that report also. THC in blood and urine which means use within the day of the killing. 
The autopsy report is IN THE PLEADINGS and again, as I stated earlier, that is WORK PRODUCT now. As soon as it is tendered and ruled on as admissable in court, then it is EVIDENCE. 
Pleadings are NOT LEAKED, they are filed. This was in the pleadings. 
Autopsy reports ARE NOT PUBLIC RECORD. They chose to release this. Rarely do you see this. 
The Martin family is freaking over this and their attorneys are raising hell. 
Not the standard.


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## BDBoop (May 19, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...



Thank you.

This angers me.


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## Gadawg73 (May 19, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



Both sides are playing the media now. 
This is what always happens when the side show media, Al Sharpton and the circus start the show. Can't blame the other side from throwing in their "evidence".
Autopsy reports are hard to cross examine. Once they are tendered as evidence they pretty much speak for themselves.
So they are the best thing to release to the public. They are what they are and just as soon as the doctor's report came out from the defense as part of their self defense claims the autopsy report was filed in the pleadings.
Of course they will claim it was "procedural" but that is BS.
This was done intentionally.
All it does is poison the jury pool. Another dumb move by the state.


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## Foxfyre (May 19, 2012)

Are you SURE autopsy reports are not a matter of public record Gadawg?

It is my understanding, at least in most states, that once the official autopsy report is issued, copies are provided without charge to the next-of-kin, physicians, law enforcement personnel, and the D.A. if they ask for it.   For a fee, others can also obtain a copy.  Any photographs associated with the autopsy, however, are not part of the public record and I believe require a court order to be released.


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## Ravi (May 19, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...




You keep representing yourself as some sort of expert but are continually proven wrong. I can't tell if you are lying or simply extremely stupid.



> Medical history records and medical diagnostic information are exempt from disclosure.
> Also, Baker Act reports prepared by law enforcement and required by statute to be made
> a part of the patients clinical record are confidential. However, an incident report
> prepared after a specific crime has been committed, filed with the law enforcement
> ...



http://myfloridalegal.com/webfiles.nsf/WF/KGRG-7Q2JJ5/$file/Redactions.pdf


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## edthecynic (May 19, 2012)

Ravi said:


> roomy said:
> 
> 
> > In America are you allowed to kill someone who insults you or threatens to slap you about a bit or do they have to lay hands on you?Are you allowed to walk around with a gun and kill people because you get a little scared?
> ...


But don't you dare fire a warning shot if you are black, Stand Your Ground does not apply then!!!!

Florida woman sentenced to 20 years in controversial warning shot case - CNN.com

(CNN) -- Saying he had no discretion under state law, a judge sentenced a Jacksonville, Florida, woman to 20 years in prison Friday for firing a warning shot in an effort to scare off her abusive husband.
Marissa Alexander unsuccessfully tried to use Florida's controversial "stand your ground" law to derail the prosecution, but a jury in March convicted her of aggravated assault after just 12 minutes of deliberation.
The case, which was prosecuted by the same state attorney who is handling the Trayvon Martin case, has gained the attention of civil rights leaders who say the African-American woman was persecuted because of her race.


The law mandates increased penalties for some felonies, including aggravated assault, in which a gun is carried or used.
Corey said the case deserved to be prosecuted because Alexander fired in the direction of a room where two children were standing.
Alexander said she was attempting to flee her husband, Rico Gray, on August 1, 2010, when she picked up a handgun and fired a shot into a wall.
She said her husband had read cell phone text messages that she had written to her ex-husband, got angry and tried to strangle her.
She said she escaped and ran to the garage, intending to drive away. But, she said, she forgot her keys, so she picked up her gun and went back into the house. She said her husband threatened to kill her, so she fired one shot.
"I believe when he threatened to kill me, that's what he was absolutely going to do," she said. "That's what he intended to do. Had I not discharged my weapon at that point, I would not be here."


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## Ravi (May 19, 2012)

BDBoop said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


It shouldn't since he's basically making things up as he goes along.


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## Gadawg73 (May 19, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Are you SURE autopsy reports are not a matter of public record Gadawg?
> 
> It is my understanding, at least in most states, that once the official autopsy report is issued, copies are provided without charge to the next-of-kin, physicians, law enforcement personnel, and the D.A. if they ask for it.   For a fee, others can also obtain a copy.  Any photographs associated with the autopsy, however, are not part of the public record and I believe require a court order to be released.



If you have an autopsy after you die it IS NEVER public record.
Next of kin, law enforcement and the DA ARE NOT the public. They do not have to release a damn thing. They usually don't. 
But as soon as they entered it into the pleadings in this case IT IS public record.
Where can you get an autopsy report for a fee anywhere in America if you are not a relative? 
No offense to you but it is amazing the misnformation there is out there. 
Most autopsies are not part of a criminal proceeding.


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## Gadawg73 (May 19, 2012)

In Florida by statute if a death is in the hands of a medical examiner instead of the coroner then different rules exist. A coroner can sign off on a death if the death is by natural causes or disease. Enter the medical examiner if it is a criminal proceeding or suspicious death.
Most autopsies are hired out to a pathologist or forensic pathologists and are not handed over to the state medical examiner for autopsy. Their backlog is always long. Those autopsies by statute are never public record under any circumstances.
The medical examiner DOES NOT need permission to conduct the autopsy. 
All medical examiner reports ARE open records FOIA data in Florida but that is not the case with most states. 
The kicker is the "some cases may be exempt from public record" clause in the Florida statute and in Georgia and all states. 
I have never seen a challenge to the sealing of medical examiners autopsy win. Ever. If they want them sealed them they seal them, period, and in many cases of this kind they are sealed.
That clause seals any autopsy report they want and works 100% of the time. Accordingly, autopsy reports are not public record if the state decides they do not want them public record.


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## Foxfyre (May 19, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Are you SURE autopsy reports are not a matter of public record Gadawg?
> ...



Well, in the interest of 'misinformation', here is the Florida law regarding medical examiner's reports.  I believe you will find that similar laws exist in at least most, if not all, states.  In capacity as work comp insurance adjuster, I have not been unable to obtain an autopsy report in New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, or Texas.



> How can I obtain a Medical Examiner Report?
> All medical examiner cases are public record once final and, as such, any person may obtain a copy of the completed Medical Examiner Report. Final reports can be mailed, faxed, e-mailed or picked up at the Medical Examiner's Office, per the requestor's preference. Instructions for obtaining the autopsy report by any of the four options above can be heard by calling the office at 386-258-4060 and selecting the desired option from the menu. The report will be sent once it is complete and releasable as a public record. Depending on the complexity of the case, reports may take from 3 to 6 months to complete.
> 
> Please be advised autopsy photographs are NOT considered public record and are not provided with the report. Pursuant to Florida Statute 406.135(2), the next-of-kin can request autopsy photographs by calling the office for details regarding the required information for release. Some cases may be exempt from public record release while under "active criminal intelligence or active criminal investigation" Florida Statute 119.071(2)(c)1. Once this designation has been lifted, the records will be available for release.
> ...


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## Ariux (May 19, 2012)

edthecynic said:


> But don't you dare fire a warning shot if you are black, Stand Your Ground does not apply then!!!!
> 
> Florida woman sentenced to 20 years in controversial warning shot case - CNN.com



You don't get to leave someone, go back to your car to get a gun, come black and shoot at him (with children in the room) and then call it a warning shot in self-defense... because only a fucking shitbrain would believe you.

She ruined any chance of avoiding prison by leaving her victim alive to testify that she left for the purpose of getting a gun.


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## Gadawg73 (May 20, 2012)

Amazing how many arm chair detectives we have here.
This is what is filed in most cases by either side as a challenge to the release of autopsy reports for "public record" requests, most likely the defense in most all cases where an autopsy does real damage to their client's chances.
This is the stock motion which I have seen hundreds of times:
"Sealing of the potential evidence in this case will 1) protect identities of minor victims and witnesses and their families; 2) protect potential jurors from hearing about certain statements that, while admissable at the grand jury hearing, would be inadmissable at trial and 3) protect potential jurors from hearing ONLY ONE SIDE of the toxicological, DNA, cordage comparison, handwriting analysis, pharmacological AND AUTOPSY EVIDENCE. Unless reports ARE SEALED, (the defense or the prosecution) will no doubt argue that neither voir dire nor jury instructions can reverse potentially damaging and prejudicial effectof likely pre trial exposure to only one interpretation, and hence, venue must move."

I once had a case where a man was shot outside a bar in a fight. The deceased had been a heroin addict and had needle tracks all up and down his arms. He had no heroin in his system at the timeof his death though. The ruling by the Judge IN FAVOR OF THE PROSECUTION: the autopsy report WAS OUT, THE JURY COULD NOT SEE IT. The needle marks were prejudicial to the jury. 

Could name a hundred other times the autopsy report WAS SEALED and not public record. 
And the kicker in this is Martin IS A MINOR. They never should have released the autopsy report of a minor to the media.
Possibly the DA is punting this case to another venue.
Just the facts.


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## Foxfyre (May 20, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> Amazing how many arm chair detectives we have here.
> This is what is filed in most cases by either side as a challenge to the release of autopsy reports for "public record" requests, most likely the defense in most all cases where an autopsy does real damage to their client's chances.
> This is the stock motion which I have seen hundreds of times:
> "Sealing of the potential evidence in this case will 1) protect identities of minor victims and witnesses and their families; 2) protect potential jurors from hearing about certain statements that, while admissable at the grand jury hearing, would be inadmissable at trial and 3) protect potential jurors from hearing ONLY ONE SIDE of the toxicological, DNA, cordage comparison, handwriting analysis, pharmacological AND AUTOPSY EVIDENCE. Unless reports ARE SEALED, (the defense or the prosecution) will no doubt argue that neither voir dire nor jury instructions can reverse potentially damaging and prejudicial effectof likely pre trial exposure to only one interpretation, and hence, venue must move."
> ...



I am not saying that the court cannot seal the autopsy report.  Apparently, however, in the Zimmerman/Martin case, it did not seal the autopsy report since the media has the information from it.  I was just stating what I believe is the fact that autopsy reports are normally part of the public record and do not require a court order for the average citizen to obtain one.  As in the case of job related deaths, I have not had any problem in four states obtaining a medical examiner's report.


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## Ravi (May 20, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> Amazing how many arm chair detectives we have here.
> This is what is filed in most cases by either side as a challenge to the release of autopsy reports for "public record" requests, most likely the defense in most all cases where an autopsy does real damage to their client's chances.
> This is the stock motion which I have seen hundreds of times:
> "Sealing of the potential evidence in this case will 1) protect identities of minor victims and witnesses and their families; 2) protect potential jurors from hearing about certain statements that, while admissable at the grand jury hearing, would be inadmissable at trial and 3) protect potential jurors from hearing ONLY ONE SIDE of the toxicological, DNA, cordage comparison, handwriting analysis, pharmacological AND AUTOPSY EVIDENCE. Unless reports ARE SEALED, (the defense or the prosecution) will no doubt argue that neither voir dire nor jury instructions can reverse potentially damaging and prejudicial effectof likely pre trial exposure to only one interpretation, and hence, venue must move."
> ...



What part of Florida law deeming autopsy reports public record do you fail to understand, Mr. armchair detective? They wouldn't even seal Caylee Anthony's autopsy report because FLORIDA LAW REQUIRES IT TO BE PUT INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD.

I only wish I could neg you again.


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## Gadawg73 (May 20, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > Amazing how many arm chair detectives we have here.
> ...



I go along with that. 
But in my world they are never "public record". Rarely do you get them without a fight in my business as the reason we want them is to gain an advantage one way or another.
Same with the prosecution. 
"outs" for the release of any "public record" document for a state controlled document and/or record are always there to seal it for any number of reasons.
Prejudicial to potential jurors is what is relevant here for sure.
For anything with Federal Control FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) which some states have modified into their own "sunshine laws" also allow for the release of those.
But autopsies are not always done by medical examiners and in many rural areas they are not. Criminal cases are not the norm for autposies. Medical malpractice cases where someone dies on the operating table there is an outside forensic pathoogist, NOT a medical examiner, and those ARE NOT public record. 
As is none other than the medical examiner's autopsy report which in most cases is subject to a motion of being sealed.


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## Gadawg73 (May 20, 2012)

This autopsy report should have been sealed.


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## Ravi (May 20, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> This autopsy report should have been sealed.


Illegal in Florida, moron.


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## Foxfyre (May 20, 2012)

I disagree.  Zimmerman had already been tried and pronounced guilty by the media.  To disallow any mitigating information available in the autopsy report to also become part of the public record would have been grossly unfair to him.


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## edthecynic (May 20, 2012)

Ariux said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > But don't you dare fire a warning shot if you are black, Stand Your Ground does not apply then!!!!
> ...


Except she went back to her car to leave and only took the gun to protect herself from the man who threatened to kill her when she went into the house to get the keys.

But you might be right, she should have killed him like Zimmerman.


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## Katzndogz (May 20, 2012)

The problem with the woman is that she left and was no longer in any danger.  No one was beating her up like Zimmerman was getting beat up.


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## The Infidel (May 20, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> The problem with the woman is that she left and was no longer in any danger.  No one was beating her up like Zimmerman was getting beat up.



Again.... details details


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## edthecynic (May 20, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> The problem with the woman is that she left and was no longer in any danger.  No one was beating her up like Zimmerman was getting beat up.


how could she leave, she didn't have car keys. She had to go in the house, where the man who threatened to kill her was, to get the keys so she could leave.

Zimmerman on the other hand, stalked his prey, who fought for his life against his pursuer until that life was taken from him. Just because the unarmed Martin was effectively defending himself against Zimmerman's armed assault did not give the armed Zimmerman the right to kill his prey.


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## Katzndogz (May 20, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > The problem with the woman is that she left and was no longer in any danger.  No one was beating her up like Zimmerman was getting beat up.
> ...



There really is a motive behind this social movement to punish George Zimmerman up to and including the death penalty.

Random attacks by blacks, individually and in mobs is on the rise.  Nothing is done to the perpetrators, the media burys the events as much as they can.   If white people generally become cognizant of the danger they are in and start seriously fighting back, you will some some very serious fighting coming down.   We are turning into a government approved lawless society with a right to be lawless based on skin color.


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## Buford (May 20, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



We have a racist administration, no doubt about it, and they need to be removed as soon as possible so we can get back to dealing with the real problems.  America is sick and Obama and the corrupt MSM is making it sicker.


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## Katzndogz (May 20, 2012)

edthecynic said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > The problem with the woman is that she left and was no longer in any danger.  No one was beating her up like Zimmerman was getting beat up.
> ...



Yes you keep thinking that.  

The view is that Trayvon Martin had and absolute right to beat George Zimmerman to death if he chose to do so and George Zimmerman had no right at all to do anything but lay there and take it.  Zimmerman is the approved human sacrifice on the altar of black rage.  He was supposed to die.  He was supposed to passively allow Martin to beat him to death.  How dare him not die!  He should have known that was racist.   He is no different than a tourist in Baltimore, two reporters in Virginia, a marine in Tampa, people eating lunch in Chicago, a jogger in Kansas City, two students sitting in a car in Los Angeles,  or a woman shopping at a Dallas Target store.   What do all of these victims have in common with one another?  They are all approved human sacrifices to black rage.  The only one that was different is George Zimmerman because he was armed.  The purpose of punishing Zimmerman, and punishing him very harshly is to prevent the other victims, the other human sacrifices from preventing their sacrifical deaths.  

 Imagine these victims, ALL these many victims, had fought back.  Had they been armed.  Had a woman shopper getting stabbed in a Dallas store just took out a handgun and dropped her assailant where he stood.  Or two reporters just opening up into the mob.  We can't have that can we?  Better to make an example out of George Zimmerman so all these sacrifical lambs will think twice if they presume to stop an attack against them.


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## gallantwarrior (May 20, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



My bet is, we will start seeing a lot more self-defense actions.  Of course, they will be classified as racist hate crimes every time some poor schlupp fights back when attacked by raging racist blacks.


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## Gadawg73 (May 20, 2012)

If it was public record and easily obtainable why did it take 11 1/2 weeks, 80 DAYS, to get it?
The autopsy was performed on 2/27/12 with the sign off on 3/15/12.
8 1/2 WEEKS AFTER IT WAS OFFICIAL. 
Media fought for all of those 8 1/2 weeks to get it.


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## Gadawg73 (May 20, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > This autopsy report should have been sealed.
> ...




In fact the autopsy report WAS UNDER SEAL for 8 1/2 weeks. 
Imagine that. 
Florida and every other sate has in their statute clear wording that an autopsy conducted by a medical examiner can be sealed for numerous reasons.
And the one most used is "the case is still under investigation and other pending investigations."
If Zimmerman would not have been charged they could have held the autopsy report sealed as long as they wanted to, legally. 
And since Martin was a minor under Florida law the Martin family could have asked the autopsy be sealed and the state could have done that under the exceptions under statute.
And most of them are not even done by the medical examiner and are not even subject to statute.
Stick to your "do you want fries with that" gig. 
You are not smart enough to do any research.
How old are you Ravi? Sending childish messages to others your hobby? You have sent numerous childish messages to me and it does appear you are conducting high school pranks. Do your parents know you are on this board acting this way?
Clear wording in their stratute they do not have to release any autopsy and you call me the moron.
Grow up.


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## Ariux (May 20, 2012)

edthecynic said:


> Except she went back to her car to leave and only took the gun to protect herself from the man who threatened to kill her when she went into the house to get the keys.



The woman leaves a house to go to her car and gets a gun, re-enters house and shoots at a man, with children the room.  She says she went back in because she needed her keys.  

1) She has no evidence to support her reason for re-entering the house.
2) She has no evidence that she was acting in self-defense at that moment of shooting.
3) If she needed to get a gun specifically to enter the house, she should have called police.
4) Her victim says it wasn't self-defense.  
5) The children made statements supporting the position that the woman didn't act in self defense.

So, you have multiple witnesses and her own actions vs. her word.  That is a losing case, for her.  

1) The truthfulness of Zimmerman's reason for getting out of his car is not challenged.
2) Zimmerman's wounds shows that he acted in self-defense.
3) Zimmerman called the police.
4) The victim doesn't deny it was self-defense. (the big reason for shooting to kill)
5) The witnesses stories support Zimmerman's account.

Zimmerman has a case that only a shit-for-brains white-hating-liberal could reject.  It's beyond absurd that anyone could defend that woman, but not Zimmerman.


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## Ariux (May 20, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> In fact the autopsy report WAS UNDER SEAL for 8 1/2 weeks.
> Imagine that.
> Florida and every other sate has in their statute clear wording that an autopsy conducted by a medical examiner can be sealed for numerous reasons.



The city's mayor ordered the police to release the tape of Zimmerman's police call.  After that, it became morally illegitimate for the authorities to withhold any information relating directly to the case.  I knew they'd find pot in that cold's (coon's) system, as well as everything else that would support Zimmerman's story.  But withholding the toxicology report for as long as they did looked suspicious, that there might be something more damning of the shit's character.

There still is interesting information that remains sealed, such as Trayvon's school record.  We'll probably never get to see this.  And, if a hero hacker hadn't gotten Trayvon's social media records, we probably would never have seen this compelling evidence of his racism and fascination with violence, maybe even that he was a drug dealer.


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## Salt Jones (May 20, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



Thank god. It's payback time.


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## Huey (May 20, 2012)

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


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## Gadawg73 (May 20, 2012)

Ariux said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > In fact the autopsy report WAS UNDER SEAL for 8 1/2 weeks.
> ...



Martin's school record should be sealed. 
It has no relevance whatsoever in the Zimmerman case.


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