# UN Vote on Palestinian State in September 2011



## georgephillip (Apr 4, 2011)

*"With revolutionary fervor* sweeping the Middle East, Israel is under mounting pressure to make a far-reaching offer to the Palestinians or face a United Nations vote welcoming the State of Palestine as a member whose territory includes all of the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem.

"The Palestinian Authority has been steadily building support for such a resolution in September, a move that could place Israel into a diplomatic vise. 

"*Israel would be occupying land belonging to a fellow United Nations member,* land it has controlled and settled for more than four decades and some of which it expects to keep in any two-state solution..."

"'We are facing a diplomatic-political tsunami that the majority of the public is unaware of and *that will peak in September*,' said Ehud Barak, Israels defense minister, at a conference in Tel Aviv last month. 'It is a very dangerous situation, one that requires action.' He added, 'Paralysis, rhetoric, inaction will deepen the isolation of Israel.' 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/03/world/middleeast/03mideast.html


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 5, 2011)

I think this is a bad idea. It is proposed by the "Oslo people" who do not represent a majority of the Palestinians.


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## georgephillip (Apr 5, 2011)

The New York Times printed a "correction" on April 4th that's also worth pondering:

"An earlier version of this article incorrectly suggested that the United States would be unable to support Israel by blocking a U.N. General Assembly this September for the creation of a Palestinian state because the United States has no veto power on such a vote. States are admitted to membership in the United Nations by decision of the General Assembly *upon the recommendation of the Security Council*, where the United States can cast a veto vote."

You follow this issue much more closely than I do; however, I don't think you can afford to underestimate the potential for very rapid change imposed by the "Arab Spring."

"Israel, which has settled hundreds of thousands of Jews inside the West Bank and East Jerusalem, *acknowledges that it will have to withdraw from much of the land it now occupies there*.

"But it hopes to hold onto the largest settlement blocs and much of East Jerusalem as well as the border to the east with Jordan and does not want to enter into talks with the other side&#8217;s position as the starting point.

"That was true even before its closest ally in the Arab world, President Hosni Mubarak of Egypt, was driven from power, helping fuel protest movements that now roil other countries, including Jordan, which has its own peace agreement with Israel." 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/03/world/middleeast/03mideast.html?_r=1


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## docmauser1 (Apr 5, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> _"With revolutionary fervor sweeping the Middle East, Israel is under mounting pressure to make a far-reaching offer to the Palestinians or face a United Nations vote welcoming the State of Palestine as a member whose territory includes all of the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem._


And then what? A free Lamborghini to every palistanian?


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## jillian (Apr 5, 2011)

mounting pressure from whom? hamas? hezbollah?


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## georgephillip (Apr 5, 2011)

*Germany, France and Britain* want negotiations based on June '67 boundaries while Israel argues against that suggestion because it "predetermines the outcome."

Apparently, at the moment only the Obama administration among members of the quartet (UN, EU and Russia) has not formally committed to the June '67 lines as a starting point for negotiations.

"Israel, which has settled hundreds of thousands of Jews inside the West Bank and East Jerusalem, acknowledges that it will have to withdraw from much of the land it now occupies there. 

"But it hopes to hold onto the largest settlement blocs and much of East Jerusalem as well as the border to the east with Jordan and does not want to enter into talks with the other side&#8217;s position as the starting point." 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/03/world/middleeast/03mideast.html?_r=1


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## georgephillip (Apr 5, 2011)

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
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If the international community recognizes a Palestinian State on the June '67 borders it won't be Arabs in need of fast cars.

"At that moment, every Israeli apartment in Jerusalem's French Hill neighborhood will become illegal. 

"Every military base in the West Bank will be contravening the sovereignty of an independent UN member state. 

"*The Palestinians will not be obligated to accept demilitarization and peace and to recognize the occupation."* 

It sounds like the "Arab Spring" will kick off a long, hot summer.

Israel needs to launch a preemptive diplomatic strike - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 5, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> *Germany, France and Britain* want negotiations based on June '67 boundaries while Israel argues against that suggestion because it "predetermines the outcome."
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> Apparently, at the moment only the Obama administration among members of the quartet (UN, EU and Russia) has not formally committed to the June '67 lines as a starting point for negotiations.
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The settlers do not have to move. They have been invited to stay as Palestinian citizens.


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## georgephillip (Apr 5, 2011)

Do you have any idea what form of law Jews and Palestinians would be living under?

Wouldn't both religions argue against equality between Jew and Arab?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 5, 2011)

Do you see it as just land? It's not Israel must have the land to defend itself.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8xAAYMq3vM]YouTube - NTEB: Israel Must Be Able To Defend Itself Early[/ame]


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 6, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jp-_ydl_28&feature=related]YouTube - A Palestian talks about the Nakba -4/4[/ame]


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## ekrem (Apr 6, 2011)

One of the 1st thing they should do after it is to go to Den Haag and demand reparation-payments for things like water Israel has pumped out of ground water.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 6, 2011)

ekrem said:


> One of the 1st thing they should do after it is to go to Den Haag and demand reparation-payments for things like water Israel has pumped out of ground water.



Justice would end the conflict.

Unfortunately, justice is a word we have never heard in any of the so called peace talks.


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## ekrem (Apr 6, 2011)

jillian said:


> mounting pressure from whom? hamas? hezbollah?



'Konrad-Adenauer Foundation' which is think-tank of ruling-party in Germany
Konrad Adenauer Foundation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 is already calling for unilateral recognition of Palestine within 1967 borders independent from expected UN-Vote. 
Foundation's Chairman was  President of the European Parliament between 2007-2009.

Die EU sollte Palästina als Staat anerkennen - Handelsblatt


In the run-up to UN vote, most of Latin America has already recognized Palestine. 
Some EU countries have upgraded their status of mission in Palestine, although they've not recognized it. 
EU wants to have a common approach based on the expected UN vote, but that common approach won't be achieved. Nevertheless, countries like Germany will recognize Palestine. 
It's also the EU who is trying to revive the talks and so-called Quartett will meet in Berlin on April 15th. 

There's currently a wide political isolation of Israel outside of USA. But this isolation has no effect on legal terms so far as Palestine is recognized selectively under bilateral relationships.  
Things would change, once Palestine joins UN as sovereign country.


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## ekrem (Apr 6, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> The settlers do not have to move. They have been invited to stay as Palestinian citizens.



The houses the 'Israelian settlers' live in belong to the Palestinian refugees who must return to their lands for this book (Palestine conflict) to close. 
Palestinian refugee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's limited space.


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## ekrem (Apr 6, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> If the international community recognizes a Palestinian State on the June '67 borders it won't be Arabs in need of fast cars.
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> "At that moment, every Israeli apartment in Jerusalem's French Hill neighborhood will become illegal.
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They've forgot to mention the Wall which runs through the West-Bank
Israeli West Bank barrier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 6, 2011)

ekrem said:


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Either that or work out a lease agreement. Many Palestinians would not want to move back to Palestine. A Palestinian friend of mine came to the US, obtained citizenship, and owns his own business. Surely he deserves some compensation, but would he move back to Palestine? The only problem he has is that his wife and two daughters, 9 and 6, live in Jordan and for some political reason they are not allowed to come to the states.

Anyway, it would be a major shuffle. Israel has created quite a mess over there.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 6, 2011)

I am not sure how this new Palestine state thing is supposed to work out. Over 100 countries recognize Palestine on its existing 1922 borders. Most of the new, but not all, recognition is on the 1967 borders that are not really borders but oh well.

The major question is which Palestine , or more precisely, which Palestinian government will be recognized. Will the US imposed military dictatorship in the West Bank be the recognized government, or would it be the elected government in Gaza? Can a dictatorship form a state in 67 borders in the opposition of the elected government who believes in the existing 1922 borders? Where is the legal standing of the West Bank government to create a state?

I think the creation of a state on 67 borders will create more problems without providing any solutions.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 6, 2011)

Those that condemn Israel are going to be in for a very big surprise real soon if this is attempted.


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## georgephillip (Apr 6, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Do you see it as just land? It's not Israel must have the land to defend itself.
> 
> YouTube - NTEB: Israel Must Be Able To Defend Itself Early


*What's defensible about Israel's occupation of Palestine?*

Many people around this world believe a crime was committed in 1948 when a Jewish state was imposed by force of arms on a population that was 66% non-Jewish.

Currently that same Jewish state has the 4th or 5th most powerful conventional military force on the planet backed up by 200 nuclear weapons deliverable from land, sea and air.

Israel will exchange land for peace (and tear down that wall) or the Jewish state will vanish from the page of time.


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## georgephillip (Apr 6, 2011)

ekrem said:


> One of the 1st thing they should do after it is to go to Den Haag and demand reparation-payments for things like water Israel has pumped out of ground water.


*There's no shortage of Israeli crimes that demand reparations.*

I'm wondering how many of those crimes will have to be forgiven in order to bring a viable Palestinian state into existence?

What percentage of Jews and Arabs among those currently alive would/could live as equals in Palestine?

Would Sharia form the legal framework?


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## CMike (Apr 6, 2011)

The resolutions are meaningless.


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## georgephillip (Apr 6, 2011)

ekrem said:


> georgephillip said:
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*Where's Reagan when we really need him?*

Mr. Netanyahu...TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!

There are a multitude of potential devils lurking in the details of how the UN General Assembly creates a viable Palestinian state in September of 2011.

First and foremost (maybe) will the Palestinian state control its own military?


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## georgephillip (Apr 6, 2011)

CMike said:


> The resolutions are meaningless.


*Because?*


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## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 6, 2011)

georgephillip said:


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You are insane The land Israel is on is theirs it has been theirs for thousands of years. They need the borders to defend theirself aginst any attacks and you hack know they will be attack.


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## Shogun (Apr 6, 2011)

zionazis are repeating history, ironically.


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## georgephillip (Apr 6, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> I am not sure how this new Palestine state thing is supposed to work out. Over 100 countries recognize Palestine on its existing 1922 borders. Most of the new, but not all, recognition is on the 1967 borders that are not really borders but oh well.
> 
> The major question is which Palestine , or more precisely, which Palestinian government will be recognized. Will the US imposed military dictatorship in the West Bank be the recognized government, or would it be the elected government in Gaza? Can a dictatorship form a state in 67 borders in the opposition of the elected government who believes in the existing 1922 borders? Where is the legal standing of the West Bank government to create a state?
> 
> I think the creation of a state on 67 borders will create more problems without providing any solutions.


What are the distinctions between the "borders" of May '48 and June of '67? Wouldn't the General Assembly be required to choose between those years?

&#8220;'We want to generate pressure on Israel to make it feel isolated and help it understand that there can be no talks without a stop to settlements,' said Nabil Shaath, who leads the foreign affairs department of Fatah, the main party of the Palestinian Authority. 'Without that, *our goal is membership in the United Nations General Assembly* in September.'&#8221; 

"Another *central obstacle to the establishment of a State of Palestine* has been the division between the West Bank and Gaza, the first run by the Palestinian Authority and the second by Hamas. 

"Lately, President Abbas has sought to bridge the gap, asking to go to Gaza to seek reconciliation through an agreed interim government that would set up parliamentary and presidential elections.

"But Hamas, *worried it would lose such elections* and hopeful that the regional turmoil could work in its favor &#8212; that Egypt, for example, might be taken over by its ally, the Muslim Brotherhood &#8212; has reacted coolly." 

Do you think Hamas has anything to fear from free elections on the West Bank and in Gaza?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/03/world/middleeast/03mideast.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1


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## georgephillip (Apr 6, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Those that condemn Israel are going to be in for a very big surprise real soon if this is attempted.


Are you predicting a Samson finish to the Jewish state?


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## georgephillip (Apr 6, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


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*Some of the land Israel is on belongs to Arabs.*

"The 1948 Palestinian exodus (Arabic: &#1575;&#1604;&#1607;&#1580;&#1585;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1601;&#1604;&#1587;&#1591;&#1610;&#1606;&#1610;&#1577;*, al-Hijra al-Filas&#7789;&#299;n&#299;ya), also known as Nakba (Arabic: &#1575;&#1604;&#1606;&#1603;&#1576;&#1577;*, an-Nakbah), meaning the 'disaster', 'catastrophe', or 'cataclysm',[1] occurred when approximately *725,000 Palestinian Arabs *left, fled or were expelled from their homes, during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War and the Civil War that preceded it."

1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## georgephillip (Apr 6, 2011)

Shogun said:


> zionazis are repeating history, ironically.


"An earlier version of this article incorrectly suggested that the United States would be unable to support Israel by blocking a U.N. General Assembly this September for the creation of a Palestinian state because the United States has no veto power on such a vote. 

"States are admitted to membership in the United Nations by decision of the General Assembly *upon the recommendation of the Security Council*, where the United States can cast a veto vote."

Do you think it would be harder politically for Obama to veto this resolution in 2011 or 2012?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/03/world/middleeast/03mideast.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 6, 2011)

georgephillip said:


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It was Israel that coined the term "civil war." It was not. A civil war is between different factions of a country. This was not Palestinians V Palestinians. It was Palestinians V foreigners who came to take over the country. The term "foreign invasion" would be more accurate.


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## docmauser1 (Apr 6, 2011)

Shogun said:


> _zionazis are repeating history, ironically._


Drivel.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 6, 2011)

georgephillip said:


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Just keep thinking happy thoughts, because thats all you will have left.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 6, 2011)

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I said thousands of years. how far back is 1948?


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## docmauser1 (Apr 6, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> _Do you think it would be harder politically for Obama to veto this resolution in 2011 or 2012?_


Whatevah, palistanians, contrary to their wet dreams, won't be getting a free Lamborghini each, anyway.


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## CMike (Apr 6, 2011)

georgephillip said:


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Because general assembly resolutions have no power.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 6, 2011)

CMike said:


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True. UN General Assembly resolution 181 means nothing.


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## georgephillip (Apr 6, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


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*That will be more than the racist rabbis in Safed have left.*

Israel's Racist Rabbis: 'Hate the Gentile'


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## Ernie S. (Apr 6, 2011)

Time to remove the damned UN from US soil. Where is Osama when we need him


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## georgephillip (Apr 6, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


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Are you in favor of all people on this planet having the right to claim land their ancestors allegedly occupied thousands of years ago?

Or are Jews special?

In any event the history of Palestine is a little more controversial than you've been lead to believe:

"Palestinians have continuously resided in Palestine since four thousand years before Christ... *Their ancestors built the cities of Jerusalem, Nablus, Jericho, Beisan, Acca and Jaffa.* 

"The Hebrews arrived in the land between 1400-1200 B.C., and only maintained control over it during the lifetimes of King David and his son King Solomon &#8211; *a period of about 80 years*. 

"The land then came under Greek and Roman rule, and was then conquered by Islam in the year 637 A.D. under the second Caliph, Omar. 

"*By that time, the Jews had already left Jerusalem, and Christianity was the dominant religion*. 

"The Caliph granted full security to all Christians, including personal safety, and protection of property, religion and churches. 

"The Muslims declared Jerusalem the capital of Palestine, and the city remained under Islamic rule until the end of the Ottoman Empire in 1918, except for a brief time of Christian rule under the Crusaders."

US Involvement in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: Solution or Complication? by Lt. Col. Mohammed F. Abo-Sak


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## Kalam (Apr 6, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> Are you in favor of all people on this planet having the right to claim land their ancestors allegedly occupied thousands of years ago?



That's a very loose interpretation of "ancestors"...

Someone inform Spain that we'll be taking back the southern part of their country to form the Caliphate of Qurtuba. I trust that we'll have the support of the Zionists in this endeavor.


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## georgephillip (Apr 6, 2011)

CMike said:


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*Be sure to mention that to Ari Shavit*

"The writing is on the wall: 2011 is going to be a diplomatic 1973. In September and October the UN General Assembly will decide whether to establish a Palestinian state in the 1967 borders. 

"*The international community will recognize a Palestinian state*.

"At that moment, every Israeli apartment in Jerusalem's French Hill neighborhood will become illegal. 

"Every military base in the West Bank will be contravening the sovereignty of an independent UN member state. 

"The Palestinians will not be obligated to *accept demilitarization* and peace and to recognize the occupation...

"The conflict will quickly become a popular confrontation. 

"The Palestinians will march on Jerusalem, and Israel will be condemned. 

"*A diplomatic siege from without and a civil uprising from within will grip Israel in a stranglehold."* 

Everything Changes if the Arab Spring produces the State of Palestine in 2011.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/israel-needs-to-launch-a-preemptive-diplomatic-strike-1.353214


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## georgephillip (Apr 6, 2011)

Kalam said:


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*Maybe Belgium is closer to the bulls-eye?*

"If international civil society is serious about urgently ending Israel&#8217;s violations of Palestinian rights, including ending the occupation, then suspension of *SWIFT transactions* to and from Israeli banks offers an instrument to help bring about a peaceful resolution of an intractable conflict...

"Although access to New York banks remains essential for foreign exchange transactions because of the role of the dollar, interbank transfer instructions are conducted through the *Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT*), which is based in Belgium. So, instead of New York &#8212; as in the period when sanctions were applied on South Africa&#8211; *Belgium is now the pressure point*.

"*SWIFT links 8,740 financial institutions in 209 countries*. Without access to SWIFT and its interbank payment network, countries are unable either to pay for imports or to receive payment for exports. 

"*In short, no payment &#8212; no trade.* 

Terry Crawford-Browne: To end the occupation, cripple Israeli banks


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## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 6, 2011)

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Are you in favor of Genocide? Because thats exactly what will happen to the Jews if they can't defend themself.


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## Kalam (Apr 6, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


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I'm sure the sky will fall as well. 

That land has changed hands many times throughout history without the occurrence of genocide. Well, I guess you could call what reportedly happened to the Canaanites a genocide...


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## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 6, 2011)

Kalam said:


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Israel is surround by countries that would nothing better than to extirmentnate them.


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## Kalam (Apr 6, 2011)

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Oh? Please support that statement with evidence from some sort of survey.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 6, 2011)

Kalam said:


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Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, soon Egypt. because of the Muslim bortherhood.


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## Kalam (Apr 6, 2011)

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...So there's no survey or anything like that?


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## georgephillip (Apr 6, 2011)

Ernie S. said:


> Time to remove the damned UN from US soil. Where is Osama when we need him


*Arming Al Qa'ida in Libya?*


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## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 6, 2011)

Kalam said:


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Are you that stupid?


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## georgephillip (Apr 6, 2011)

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I'm pretty sure you're both smart enough to understand the existential significance of 200+ nuclear weapons?


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## Kalam (Apr 6, 2011)

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Stupid enough to consider your vague, ill-informed perceptions of Middle Eastern politics and public opinion as proof of genocidal intent? Nope. If you make a claim and can't support it with reliable evidence, don't expect anyone who thinks critically to believe you. Introducing insults into the discussion simply underscores your inability to argue your point.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Apr 6, 2011)

Kalam said:


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Most Muslim countries hate Israel Anyone thats can think for themself knows who is telling the truth. Me or you.


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## Kalam (Apr 6, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


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I haven't even made a claim. I simply questioned yours and you seem to be unwilling or unable to offer evidence. 

Try going in front of a judge and telling him "everyone knows the defendant is guilty!" See if that argument results in a conviction.


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## georgephillip (Apr 6, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


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Israel is also beset with internal divisions.

Since the fall of the Soviet Union many Eastern European Jews who've migrated to Israel display a level of racism towards Arabs that rivals what was displayed in white South Africa or Jim Crow Dixie against Blacks.

Thousands of these recent immigrants have been settled on the West Bank, and if they are forced to relocate the possibility of civil war within Israel arises. For all the concern of nuclear weapons falling into the hands of Islamic terrorists, it would be ironic, at least, if Israel became the second democracy to incinerate its enemies, and the first to do so within its own borders.

btw, recently I heard on Pacifica radio a nuclear engineer make the claim that recent calculations have revealed a nuclear exchange involving only 1% of the world's nuclear weapons would produce enough smoke to prevent anything from growing on the surface of this planet for at least one year.

Jus sayin'


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## CMike (Apr 6, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


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Israel is a state because of the IDF not because of the UN .


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## georgephillip (Apr 7, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


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By an overwhelming majority the populations of all Muslim countries currently hate and fear Israel (and the US) primarily because of the Israeli occupation of Palestine which could not exist without US support.

When that illegal occupation ends, so will some of the hatred. How much of the hatred disappears depends largely on how successful Jews, Muslims, and Christians are at ignoring the religious/economic extremists in their midst who will never stop advocating the total destruction of "the evil other."

Americans should clean their own house first in this regard before they worry about radical Jews or Muslims.


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## georgephillip (Apr 7, 2011)

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*Which came first?*

"The following is a list of United Nations resolutions that concern Israel and bordering states such as Lebanon. 

"*The U.N. has passed more resolutions condemning Israel than it has all other nations combined."*

If you look at this map of the 1947 UN Partition Plan for Palestine you will see the degree of gerrymandering necessary to construct a "Jewish State" within a country whose population was about 66% non-Jewish at that time.

Today, US conservatives are clinging to the apartheid Jewish State the same way conservatives in the 60s held onto Jim Crow in Dixie.

And you are going to lose today in Israel exactly like you lost in Alabama then.

It's Natural Selection.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 7, 2011)

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OK, but that creates a particular problem for Israel. Israel has never won a defensive war with Palestine. Israel has never won any Palestinian land.


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## docmauser1 (Apr 7, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> _By an overwhelming majority the populations of all Muslim countries currently hate and fear Israel (and the US) primarily because of the Israeli occupation of Palestine which could not exist without US support._


There's no occupation of palistan, the ICJ and Abu Masen said so. Forget it.


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## CMike (Apr 7, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


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There never was a Palestine.


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## Jos (Apr 7, 2011)

CMike said:


> There never was a Palestine.



You win a coin


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## Shogun (Apr 7, 2011)

Jos said:


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Shhhhh... reality is antisemitic.


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## georgephillip (Apr 7, 2011)

docmauser1 said:


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*Soon there will be no occupation of Palestine.*

Possibly the Zionists can work a deal with Mubarak?

Gaddafi maybe?

Samson?


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## georgephillip (Apr 7, 2011)

CMike said:


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> > CMike said:
> ...


"The United Nations Partition Plan for *Palestine* was a resolution adopted on 29 *November 1947* by the General Assembly of the United Nations. Its title was United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181 (II) Future Government of *Palestine*.

United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 7, 2011)

CMike said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > CMike said:
> ...



The U.S. State Department Digest of International Law says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[16]

State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## docmauser1 (Apr 7, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Are palistanians planning on changing their occupation?


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## docmauser1 (Apr 7, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> _"The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine was a resolution adopted on 29 November 1947 by the General Assembly of the United Nations. Its title was United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181 (II) Future Government of Palestine._



The resolution, which arabs happily dissed, of course. The UNSCOP reported to the Security Council on Feb.16, 1948:
"Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein." No need to thump the resolution like a bible.
There has never been an arab state of "palestine" in history, of course.


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## docmauser1 (Apr 7, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> _The U.S. State Department Digest of International Law says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. ..._


Did the "U.S. State Department" notice that, Palestine was not an "A" mandate, too?


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 8, 2011)

docmauser1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > _The U.S. State Department Digest of International Law says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. ..._
> ...



It doesn't matter what outsiders think. Palestine belongs to the Palestinians. 
The opinions of outsiders is just that.

The opinions of outsiders.


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## georgephillip (Apr 8, 2011)

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > _"The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine was a resolution adopted on 29 November 1947 by the General Assembly of the United Nations. Its title was United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181 (II) Future Government of Palestine._
> ...


Apparently a few people at the UN in 1947 believed a place called Palestine existed. Two-thirds of the voters in that place did NOT want a Jewish state created.

That mistake is about to be repealed.

Get over it.


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## docmauser1 (Apr 8, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Indeed, we should stop bringing ignorant US State Department drivel up, shouldn't we?


P F Tinmore said:


> _Palestine belongs to the Palestinians._


Palistanians, being an Arafat's invention, should be grateful they're given something for nothing, of course.


P F Tinmore said:


> _The opinions of outsiders is just that.
> The opinions of outsiders._


Yes, yes, we've established that the US State Department and palistanian agitprop are dumb.


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## docmauser1 (Apr 8, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Well, since "two-thirds of" whoever buried an arab state, which was to be created under the resolution 181 too, they don't really have to be bitter, bitching about their bitching, of course. Don't cry for me palaeeeeesteeenaaaaa ....


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## georgephillip (Apr 8, 2011)

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > docmauser1 said:
> ...


By what moral authority was a Jewish state created in a land that was two-thirds non-Jewish?

Did Britain's desire for their own little loyal Jewish Ulster have anything to do with it.

Do those who get rich from war deserve your allegiance?


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## docmauser1 (Apr 9, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


By moral authority of protecting jooz from arab thugs of the largely immigrant origin, criminally posessed by the idea of murdering jooz and plundering of the jovish property, of course. Is that enough?


georgephillip said:


> _Did Britain's desire for their own little loyal Jewish Ulster have anything to do with it. Do those who get rich from war deserve your allegiance?_


Stupid babble in view of the fact that, the british didn't create Israel.


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## georgephillip (Apr 9, 2011)

*You're at risk of losing your hasbara charter.*

Does the phrase "Orangemen of Palestine" sound familiar?

"Towards the end of the First World War, when it was clear Britain was going to take over Palestine, the leader of the Zionists at the time, Chaim Weitzmann, contacted the British foreign secretary, Arthur Balfour, getting from him, on 2 November 1917, a declaration promising the Jews a homeland in Palestine. 

"Sir Ronald Storrs, the first British military governor of Jerusalem, explained that the Zionist 'enterprise was one that blessed him that gave as well as him that took, by forming for England "*a little loyal Jewish Ulster" in a sea of potentially hostile Arabism.*' The Zionists would be the Orangemen of Palestine.

"With the Second World War it became clear that the main power in the Middle East would cease to be Britain and would be the United States. 

"Ben Gurion, the Zionist leader at the time, therefore rushed to Washington to cement deals with the United States. Israel is now the most reliable satellite of the United States. 

"It is not for nothing that Israel gets more economic aid from the United States than any other country, even though it is so tiny. It also gets more military aid than any other country in the world."

Tony Cliff: The Jews, Israel and the Holocaust (1998)

*Now whine about Marxists*


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## docmauser1 (Apr 10, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> _Now whine about Marxists_


Indeed, they forgot to attach a british government official declaration, announcing the creation of the state of Israel, to back their drivel up.


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## georgephillip (Apr 11, 2011)

"Towards the end of the First World War, when it was clear Britain was going to take over Palestine, the leader of the Zionists at the time, Chaim Weitzmann, contacted the British foreign secretary, Arthur *Balfour*, getting from him, on 2 November 1917, a* declaration* promising the Jews a *homeland in Palestine*."

What moral authority did Arthur have to make that promise? 

Tony Cliff: The Jews, Israel and the Holocaust (1998)


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 11, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> "Towards the end of the First World War, when it was clear Britain was going to take over Palestine, the leader of the Zionists at the time, Chaim Weitzmann, contacted the British foreign secretary, Arthur *Balfour*, getting from him, on 2 November 1917, a* declaration* promising the Jews a *homeland in Palestine*."
> 
> What moral authority did Arthur have to make that promise?
> 
> Tony Cliff: The Jews, Israel and the Holocaust (1998)



Israel is a project of the world's criminal class. It was a simple case of armed robbery.


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## docmauser1 (Apr 11, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> _"Towards the end of the First World War, when it was clear Britain was going to take over Palestine, the leader of the Zionists at the time, Chaim Weitzmann, contacted the British foreign secretary, Arthur Balfour, getting from him, on 2 November 1917, a declaration promising the Jews a homeland in Palestine." What moral authority did Arthur have to make that promise?_


All this is nice, babbly and irrelevant. Where is a british government official declaration, announcing the creation of the state of Israel, to back the drivel up?


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## docmauser1 (Apr 11, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> _Israel is a project of the world's criminal class. It was a simple case of armed robbery._


Drivel.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 11, 2011)

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > _"Towards the end of the First World War, when it was clear Britain was going to take over Palestine, the leader of the Zionists at the time, Chaim Weitzmann, contacted the British foreign secretary, Arthur Balfour, getting from him, on 2 November 1917, a declaration promising the Jews a homeland in Palestine." What moral authority did Arthur have to make that promise?_
> ...



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm7dMhE80dw]YouTube - Alnakba English P1[/ame]


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## ForeverYoung436 (Apr 11, 2011)

Everyone here should watch the movie "Exodus" with Paul Newman and Eva Marie Saint.  It shows how the British tried to prevent the Jews from entering Palestine.


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## georgephillip (Apr 11, 2011)

When the events depicted in "Exodus" occurred two out of every three inhabitants of Palestine were not Jews. Any semblance of a free election at that time would not have resulted in a Jewish state. 

In 1960 when "Exodus" premiered Israel had yet to conquer the West Bank and Gaza. When most Americans of that time thought about Israel it was always in reference to the Holocaust. No one I knew had ever heard about Al Nakba, the ethnic cleansing of hundreds of thousands of Arabs from lands they had lived on for generations. Maybe Paul and Eva and Otto knew but if they did, they didn't spread the word.


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## docmauser1 (Apr 12, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> _In 1960 when "Exodus" premiered Israel had yet to conquer the West Bank and Gaza. When most Americans of that time thought about Israel it was always in reference to the Holocaust. No one I knew had ever heard about Al Nakba, the ethnic cleansing of hundreds of thousands of Arabs from lands they had lived on for generations._


Droovel.


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## georgephillip (Apr 12, 2011)

*Your middle name?*


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## Trajan (Apr 12, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> *Germany, France and Britain* want negotiations based on June '67 boundaries while Israel argues against that suggestion because it "predetermines the outcome."
> 
> Apparently, at the moment only the Obama administration among members of the quartet (UN, EU and Russia) has not formally committed to the June '67 lines as a starting point for negotiations.
> 
> ...




considering their history Germany, France and Britain can go have sex with themselves.


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## georgephillip (Apr 12, 2011)

*"The American people seem to be getting it.* 

"According to a poll released Monday by the right-wing Israel Project, only *51% of Americans oppose* a unilateral Palestinian declaration of independence. *54% favor* a Palestinian state achieved through negotiations.

"For those familiar with polling on matters relating to Israelis and Palestinians, the results are startling. 

"The percentage of support for the Israeli position is usually in the high 70s, while support for the Palestinians is in the teens. 

"Suddenly there is a major shift, and this in a poll sponsored by an organization that clearly did not want to see findings like these." 

MJ Rosenberg: Poll Shows U.S. Public Evenly Divided on Unilateral Palestinian State


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## docmauser1 (Apr 14, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> _Your middle name?_


That's a stupidly funny predictable bullshit reponse, of course. By the way, did the "marxists" attach a british government official declaration, announcing the creation of the state of Israel, to back their drivel up, yet?


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## docmauser1 (Apr 14, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> _"The American people seem to be getting it._


No, they don't. Their wet dream of seeing the state of palistan in their time will end in the palistanian santa, furnishing them with yet $5 billion bill for it.


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## pKaiser (Jun 30, 2011)

At last the Palestinians have come up with a strategy that will help them reach their goals. Gandhi, Mandela, and King got it to work for them against even more powerful  oppressors. In September we will see a great moral defeat for the US-Israel axis, on the way to either a one or two state solution.


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## docmauser1 (Jun 30, 2011)

pKaiser said:


> _At last the Palestinians have come up with a strategy that will help them reach their goals. Gandhi, Mandela, and King got it to work for them against even more powerful  oppressors. In September we will see a great moral defeat for the US-Israel axis, on the way to either a one or two state solution._


Funny drivel.


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## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 30, 2011)

pKaiser said:


> At last the Palestinians have come up with a strategy that will help them reach their goals. Gandhi, Mandela, and King got it to work for them against even more powerful  oppressors. In September we will see a great moral defeat for the US-Israel axis, on the way to either a one or two state solution.



Mr. Tinmore, are you against the U.N. vote?  If you are, then why are you sabatoging your own cause?


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 30, 2011)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> pKaiser said:
> 
> 
> > At last the Palestinians have come up with a strategy that will help them reach their goals. Gandhi, Mandela, and King got it to work for them against even more powerful  oppressors. In September we will see a great moral defeat for the US-Israel axis, on the way to either a one or two state solution.
> ...



Yes I am. I think it is a bad move.


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## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 30, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > pKaiser said:
> ...



And what is a "good move" to you?  Shooting crude rockets into kindergartens?


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