# Patriotic Americans vs. Israel



## Thunderbird (Jun 11, 2015)

American taxpayers are forced to pay billions of dollars to Israel.  America has suffered through oil embargoes because of Israel.  America has fought wars for Israel.  And what has Israel done for the U.S.?  In gratitude the Israelis have conducted damaging spy operations against the U.S. and sold advanced weapons to our most dangerous adversaries. 

American interests are not served by propping up apartheid Israel. Our politicians are bribed to betray our country and put Israel first.  American subservience to Israel creates hatred for America throughout the Muslim world, terrorism, instability, and aversion to American ideals and reform.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 11, 2015)

Some conservatives are not duped:

Conservatives for Palestine

Coalition of Evangelicals Voices Support for Palestinian State

'It will lead to war' - Ron Paul fights to end military aid for Israel


----------



## montelatici (Jun 11, 2015)

You are absolutely right.  But you will be attacked by people that put Israel before the U.S.


----------



## Hossfly (Jun 11, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> American taxpayers are forced to pay billions of dollars to Israel.  America has suffered through oil embargoes because of Israel.  America has fought wars for Israel.  And what has Israel done for the U.S.?  In gratitude the Israelis have conducted damaging spy operations against the U.S. and sold advanced weapons to our most dangerous adversaries.  American interests are not served by propping up apartheid Israel. Our politicians are bribed to betray our country and put Israel first.  American subservience to Israel creates hatred for America throughout the Muslim world, terrorism, and aversion to American ideals and reform.


I don't believe any of that happy horseshit.


----------



## montelatici (Jun 11, 2015)

Hossfly said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > American taxpayers are forced to pay billions of dollars to Israel.  America has suffered through oil embargoes because of Israel.  America has fought wars for Israel.  And what has Israel done for the U.S.?  In gratitude the Israelis have conducted damaging spy operations against the U.S. and sold advanced weapons to our most dangerous adversaries.  American interests are not served by propping up apartheid Israel. Our politicians are bribed to betray our country and put Israel first.  American subservience to Israel creates hatred for America throughout the Muslim world, terrorism, and aversion to American ideals and reform.
> ...



Because you are an Israel Firster.


----------



## TheOldSchool (Jun 11, 2015)

I believe in supporting Israel as far as that support is in America's best interests.  I also believe that too many in our country believe that we should support Israel to our detriment.  Israel can handle itself.  It doesn't need us.  If they piss off the world and lose support, it's not our job to step in and fix that.


----------



## Hossfly (Jun 11, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird said:
> ...


No I'm not but the OP is another "Hate Israel Because" story and I don't buy that crap.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 11, 2015)

Hossfly said:


> No I'm not but the OP is another "Hate Israel Because" story and I don't buy that crap.


Can you refute any of the statements I made in the OP?


----------



## Hossfly (Jun 11, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > No I'm not but the OP is another "Hate Israel Because" story and I don't buy that crap.
> ...


Any of those statements from official sources or are the blogs, tweets and opinions the evidence?


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 11, 2015)

Hossfly said:


> Any of those statements from official sources or are the blogs, tweets and opinions the evidence?


Obviously the articles I linked to support my statements.  If you see any errors please point them out and be as specific as possible.


----------



## proudveteran06 (Jun 11, 2015)

montelatici said:


> You are absolutely right.  But you will be attacked by people that put Israel before the U.S.



 Notice that if you support Israel those who drink the Pro Palestinian Kool Aid accuses the posters of putting Israel first?  Don't like it because Israel refuses to go back to borders that were never recognized or allow " Right of Return?" They are responsible for all the Muslim terror the latest from ISIS who burns people to death? Pro Palestinian mentality forbids any condemnation


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 12, 2015)

proudveteran06 said:


> They are responsible for all the Muslim terror the latest from ISIS who burns people to death?


The Israelis and AIPAC pushed for the invasion of Iraq.  They wanted the U.S. to destroy Iraq for Israel. Iraq threatened Israel not the U.S.  The war led to present-day instability.



> Don't like it because Israel refuses to go back to borders that were never recognized or allow " Right of Return?"


Do you realize the Israelis ethnically cleansed the Palestinians from their homes?


----------



## theliq (Jun 12, 2015)

Hossfly said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > American taxpayers are forced to pay billions of dollars to Israel.  America has suffered through oil embargoes because of Israel.  America has fought wars for Israel.  And what has Israel done for the U.S.?  In gratitude the Israelis have conducted damaging spy operations against the U.S. and sold advanced weapons to our most dangerous adversaries.  American interests are not served by propping up apartheid Israel. Our politicians are bribed to betray our country and put Israel first.  American subservience to Israel creates hatred for America throughout the Muslim world, terrorism, and aversion to American ideals and reform.
> ...


Because you are an Israel FIST FCUKER


----------



## theliq (Jun 12, 2015)

proudveteran06 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > You are absolutely right.  But you will be attacked by people that put Israel before the U.S.
> ...


No it's the 60 odd Trillions  spent on 22 million people whilst Americans live in poverty.............no health care,no social benefits,no proper aged care,and so on......BUT ISRAEL DOES..Thanks America from Israel


----------



## Mr. H. (Jun 12, 2015)

We suffered on 9/11 because of Israel...


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 12, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> American taxpayers are forced to pay billions of dollars to Israel.  America has suffered through oil embargoes because of Israel.  America has fought wars for Israel.  And what has Israel done for the U.S.?  In gratitude the Israelis have conducted damaging spy operations against the U.S. and sold advanced weapons to our most dangerous adversaries.
> 
> American interests are not served by propping up apartheid Israel. Our politicians are bribed to betray our country and put Israel first.  American subservience to Israel creates hatred for America throughout the Muslim world, terrorism, instability, and aversion to American ideals and reform.







 Where do you get your information from Nazi's-r-us


----------



## Challenger (Jun 12, 2015)

To be fair to the USA, it's now caught in a quagmire of its own making. Zionist Israel has nuclear weapons capable of reaching North America (Jericho III), the US political system results in situations where organised American Zionists have a political influence disproportionate to their numbers. A fatal double whammy, compounded by the fact that Zionist Israel is starting to "cuddle up" with the Chinese, so to maintain what's left of any influence over Zionist Israel America has to roll over much more than she would like if she were solely pursuing her own interests.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 12, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird said:
> ...







 No he is intelligent enough to see through the islamonazi propaganda and realise that you islam firsters will LIE because you want the jews to be wiped out.


----------



## Wyatt earp (Jun 12, 2015)

Challenger said:


> To be fair to the USA, it's now caught in a quagmire of its own making. Zionist Israel has nuclear weapons capable of reaching North America (Jericho III), the US political system results in situations where organised American Zionists have a political influence disproportionate to their numbers. A fatal double whammy, compounded by the fact that Zionist Israel is starting to "cuddle up" with the Chinese, so to maintain what's left of any influence over Zionist Israel America has to roll over much more than she would like if she were solely pursuing her own interests.


you smoking crack? The Jericho III range is only 11,000 km max it would drop out in the mid Atlantic, no where close to America


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 12, 2015)

TheOldSchool said:


> I believe in supporting Israel as far as that support is in America's best interests.  I also believe that too many in our country believe that we should support Israel to our detriment.  Israel can handle itself.  It doesn't need us.  If they piss off the world and lose support, it's not our job to step in and fix that.






 Unless it is to your advantage, like giving Saudi F16's in return for oil


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 12, 2015)

theliq said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...







 So who was to blame for the plight of Americans prior to 1980 when they first received US aid ?


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 12, 2015)

Mr. H. said:


> We suffered on 9/11 because of Israel...





 Did you, why what did Israel do?


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 12, 2015)

Challenger said:


> To be fair to the USA, it's now caught in a quagmire of its own making. Zionist Israel has nuclear weapons capable of reaching North America (Jericho III), the US political system results in situations where organised American Zionists have a political influence disproportionate to their numbers. A fatal double whammy, compounded by the fact that Zionist Israel is starting to "cuddle up" with the Chinese, so to maintain what's left of any influence over Zionist Israel America has to roll over much more than she would like if she were solely pursuing her own interests.






 Since when have you been an Israeli spokesperson to threaten anyone with alleged nuclear weapons. Or is this your new tactic to RACIALLY DEMONIZE Israel  because your other futile attempts have failed


----------



## toastman (Jun 12, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird said:
> ...



So using your logic, you are a Palestinian firster


----------



## toastman (Jun 12, 2015)

When has America fought any way for Israel ?


----------



## Challenger (Jun 12, 2015)

bear513 said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > To be fair to the USA, it's now caught in a quagmire of its own making. Zionist Israel has nuclear weapons capable of reaching North America (Jericho III), the US political system results in situations where organised American Zionists have a political influence disproportionate to their numbers. A fatal double whammy, compounded by the fact that Zionist Israel is starting to "cuddle up" with the Chinese, so to maintain what's left of any influence over Zionist Israel America has to roll over much more than she would like if she were solely pursuing her own interests.
> ...



Erm, Detroit is around 9,500Km from Tel Aviv, you are not as safe as you think, neither is your Eastern seaboard. Zionist Israel has sucked up to many major powers in the past and changed alliegences when it suited them, America may be an ally today, but who knows what tomorrow will bring.


----------



## toastman (Jun 12, 2015)

Challenger said:


> To be fair to the USA, it's now caught in a quagmire of its own making. Zionist Israel has nuclear weapons capable of reaching North America (Jericho III), the US political system results in situations where organised American Zionists have a political influence disproportionate to their numbers. A fatal double whammy, compounded by the fact that Zionist Israel is starting to "cuddle up" with the Chinese, so to maintain what's left of any influence over Zionist Israel America has to roll over much more than she would like if she were solely pursuing her own interests.



MAn you are paranoid.


----------



## Challenger (Jun 12, 2015)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



No such thing.

Israel Firster: "A person that places the ambitions,policies and well-being of the right-wing Israeli government over that of their country of residence, usually America. Israel is the primary concern and will always be considered before anything else. If a policy is good for Israel and bad for America it will receive unconditional support without concern for America,despite America being the country of residence *hence Israel FIRST."- Urban Dictionary Israel-firster

I may be speaking out of turn but I don't think there's one "pro-Palestinian" poster here that would put Palestine's interests before that of their own country. I, for one, support the Palestinians because they are an innocent people that have been brutally colonised and are being oppressed as I write by European Zionists in pursuit of a mythic fable. Once they are a free people enjoying dignity and full human rights, I'll move on to another worthy cause. I won't, however, put my country in danger to further Palestinian goals. That's the difference.

Here's an interesting article on the subject:

Why the Term Israel First Matters MJ Rosenberg


----------



## Challenger (Jun 12, 2015)

toastman said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > To be fair to the USA, it's now caught in a quagmire of its own making. Zionist Israel has nuclear weapons capable of reaching North America (Jericho III), the US political system results in situations where organised American Zionists have a political influence disproportionate to their numbers. A fatal double whammy, compounded by the fact that Zionist Israel is starting to "cuddle up" with the Chinese, so to maintain what's left of any influence over Zionist Israel America has to roll over much more than she would like if she were solely pursuing her own interests.
> ...



Pragmatic, based on previous Zionist history.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 12, 2015)

Did you see the American citizens in Kuwait getting shot, or would that destroy your POV if it was told. Isreal was told to stay out of the wart even when


Challenger said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






 You just put palestines interests first, instead of the UK's. Every time you defend their terror attacks, violence and belligerence you are putting the UK in danger of islamonazi terrorist attacks.
 By the way it is only islam firsters that believe that false propaganda, the intelligent know that Isreal puts the treaty of 1923 as the overriding reason for their claim on the land of Isreal granted to them by the LoN


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 12, 2015)

Challenger said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...







 Define what you mean by Zionist ?


----------



## Challenger (Jun 12, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Did you see the American citizens in Kuwait getting shot, or would that destroy your POV if it was told. Isreal was told to stay out of the wart even when
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> ...


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 12, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Did you see the American citizens in Kuwait getting shot, or would that destroy your POV if it was told. Isreal was told to stay out of the wart even when
> ...






Not only the blind that can not see, as your reply shows.


----------



## Challenger (Jun 12, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...


----------



## Daniyel (Jun 12, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> American taxpayers are forced to pay billions of dollars to Israel.  America has suffered through oil embargoes because of Israel.  America has fought wars for Israel.  And what has Israel done for the U.S.?  In gratitude the Israelis have conducted damaging spy operations against the U.S. and sold advanced weapons to our most dangerous adversaries.
> 
> American interests are not served by propping up apartheid Israel. Our politicians are bribed to betray our country and put Israel first.  American subservience to Israel creates hatred for America throughout the Muslim world, terrorism, instability, and aversion to American ideals and reform.


I'm probably not informed about some of the things you said..can you be more specific?
1.What oil embargoes because of Israel?
2.Which wars America fought because of Israel?
3.Who were the Israelis conducting spy operations against the US(and on who's behalf?)
4.What weaponary sold and to whom?
5.When did Israel became an apartheid?
6.who are the politicians that have been convicted with bribery and who were paying them?
7.How does Israel influence Muslims perspectives over America - and who exactly is being influenced?
8.What is the American methodology about terrorism compared to Israel'?
9.What sort of damaging instabilities Israel caused against the American ideals and reform?
10.About the economic support the US has given to Israel I'll agree with you, no question about it, but in the end, does it serve American interests or not?

Please I'm not interested in links to articles, a simple educated answer will do.


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 12, 2015)

Daniyel said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > American taxpayers are forced to pay billions of dollars to Israel.  America has suffered through oil embargoes because of Israel.  America has fought wars for Israel.  And what has Israel done for the U.S.?  In gratitude the Israelis have conducted damaging spy operations against the U.S. and sold advanced weapons to our most dangerous adversaries.
> ...



The First Iraq War was fought because Iraq conquered Kuwait, and America feared that its oil supply would be cut off.  I'm not sure why we fought the Second Iraq War.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 12, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> So who was to blame for the plight of Americans prior to 1980 when they first received US aid ?


You've exposed yourself as ignorant.  Israel received aid long before 1980.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 12, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> > We suffered on 9/11 because of Israel...
> ...


People in the Mideast are angry mostly because the U.S. supports the apartheid state of Israel.


----------



## Hossfly (Jun 12, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Mr. H. said:
> ...


What kind of documentation do you have that proves Israel is an apartheid state other than the accusations of the unwashed?


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 12, 2015)

Challenger said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



When you say mythic fable, I assume you're talking about Gd and the Bible.  What about:
1) Safe haven for the Jews?
2) History and archaeology?


----------



## toastman (Jun 12, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Mr. H. said:
> ...



So because Arabs hate Israel, they are hostile towards America, and you are willing to succumb to them? If they don't like America because of Israel, too fuckin bad for them. America will never succumb to their pressure from Arab violence. 

If Israel is an Apartheid state, what are the Apartheid laws in Israel proper?


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 12, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Since when have you been an Israeli spokesperson to threaten anyone with alleged nuclear weapons.


There are some crazy war-mongers in Israel.


----------



## montelatici (Jun 12, 2015)

Hossfly said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



What documentation do you need, when the facts on the ground bear it out? 

The condition of the Palestinian people is no different than that of blacks in South Africa during Apartheid. Like black South Africans, Palestinians are not allowed to move freely on their own land. Like black South Africans, Palestinians must carry ‘passbooks’ to identify themselves to their military occupiers. Like black South Africans, Palestinians are subjected to the cantonization and theft of their ancestral homeland. Like black South Africans, Palestinians cannot vote for the people controlling their lives, and like black South Africans, Palestinians are discriminated against purely on the basis of their ethnicity.


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 12, 2015)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



I read the article.  I also think America should not go to war with Iran, just to protect Israel.  But I also think that the Liberty case in 1967 was friendly fire due to the war going on there.  So does that make me an Israeli-firster or not?  Or maybe a free-thinking person who decides different issues based on logic and reason.


----------



## montelatici (Jun 12, 2015)

You just ignore the findings of the only independent report, the Moorer (Admiral Moorer) Commission Report.

"We, the undersigned, having undertaken an independent investigation of Israel's attack on USS Liberty, including eyewitness testimony from surviving crewmembers, a review of naval and other official records, an examination of official statements by the Israeli and American governments, a study of the conclusions of all previous official inquiries, and a consideration of important new evidence and recent statements from individuals having direct knowledge of the attack or the cover up, hereby find the following: **

1. That on June 8, 1967, after eight hours of aerial surveillance, Israel launched a two-hour air and naval attack against USS Liberty, the world's most sophisticated intelligence ship, inflicting 34 dead and 173 wounded American servicemen (a casualty rate of seventy percent, in a crew of 294);

2. That the Israeli air attack lasted approximately 25 minutes, during which time unmarked Israeli aircraft dropped napalm canisters on USS Liberty's bridge, and fired 30mm cannons and rockets into our ship, causing 821 holes, more than 100 of which were rocket-size; survivors estimate 30 or more sorties were flown over the ship by a minimum of 12 attacking Israeli planes which were jamming all five American emergency radio channels;

3. That the torpedo boat attack involved not only the firing of torpedoes, but the machine-gunning of Liberty's firefighters and stretcher-bearers as they struggled to save their ship and crew; the Israeli torpedo boats later returned to machine-gun at close range three of the Liberty's life rafts that had been lowered into the water by survivors to rescue the most seriously wounded;

4. That there is compelling evidence that Israel's attack was a deliberate attempt to destroy an American ship and kill her entire crew; evidence of such intent is supported by statements from Secretary of State Dean Rusk, Undersecretary of State George Ball, former CIA director Richard Helms, former NSA directors Lieutenant General William Odom, USA (Ret.), Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, USN (Ret.), and Marshal Carter; former NSA deputy directors Oliver Kirby and Major General John Morrison, USAF (Ret.); and former Ambassador Dwight Porter, U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon in 1967;

5. That in attacking USS Liberty, Israel committed acts of murder against American servicemen and an act of war against the United States;

6. That fearing conflict with Israel, the White House deliberately prevented the U.S. Navy from coming to the defense of USS Liberty by recalling Sixth Fleet military rescue support while the ship was under attack; evidence of the recall of rescue aircraft is supported by statements of Captain Joe Tully, Commanding Officer of the aircraft carrier USS Saratoga, and Rear Admiral Lawrence Geis, the Sixth Fleet carrier division commander, at the time of the attack; never before in American naval history has a rescue mission been cancelled when an American ship was under attack;

7. That although Liberty was saved from almost certain destruction through the heroic efforts of the ship's Captain, William L. McGonagle (MOH), and his brave crew, surviving crewmembers were later threatened with "court-martial, imprisonment or worse" if they exposed the truth; and were abandoned by their own government;

8. That due to the influence of Israel's powerful supporters in the United States, the White House deliberately covered up the facts of this attack from the American people;

9. That due to continuing pressure by the pro-Israel lobby in the United States, this attack remains the only serious naval incident that has never been thoroughly investigated by Congress; to this day, no surviving crewmember has been permitted to officially and publicly testify about the attack;

10. That there has been an official cover-up without precedent in American naval history; the existence of such a cover-up is now supported by statements of Rear Admiral Merlin Staring, USN (Ret.), former Judge Advocate General of the Navy; and Captain Ward Boston, USN, (Ret.), the chief counsel to the Navy's 1967 Court of Inquiry of Liberty attack;

11. That the truth about Israel's attack and subsequent White House cover-up continues to be officially concealed from the American people to the present day and is a national disgrace;

12. That a danger to our national security exists whenever our elected officials are willing to subordinate American interests to those of any foreign nation, and specifically are unwilling to challenge Israel's interests when they conflict with American interests; this policy, evidenced by the failure to defend USS Liberty and the subsequent official cover-up of the Israeli attack, endangers the safety of Americans and the security of the United States.


----------



## toastman (Jun 12, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Since when have you been an Israeli spokesperson to threaten anyone with alleged nuclear weapons.
> ...



It's the Palestinians who are the war mongers.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 12, 2015)

toastman said:


> So because Arabs hate Israel, they are hostile towards America, and you are willing to succumb to them? /if they don't like America because of Israel, yo


If the Israelis were in the right you might have a point.  However, the Israelis have ethnically cleansed the Palestinians from their homes.  The Israelis discriminate against the Palestinians.  The Israelis bomb Palestinian civilians.


----------



## montelatici (Jun 12, 2015)

toastman said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...




It's a long list, but just the basic "Law of Return" is a discriminatory and Apartheid law as it separates Jews from the non-Jews.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 12, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Where do you get your information from Nazi's-r-us


Modern day Nazis are Israeli war-mongers.






Check out this article: Holocaust survivors condemn Israel for Gaza massacre call for boycott - Diplomacy and Defense - - Haaretz Daily Newspaper Israel News


----------



## montelatici (Jun 12, 2015)

toastman said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



I ask you, how can the people that were colonized and evicted from their land by people from another continent be the war mongers.  Can't you see what crazy logic that is?  It's like saying the Indians were the war mongers in the Americas.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 12, 2015)

toastman said:


> When has America fought any way for Israel ?


The second Gulf War in particular was fought for Israel.

John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt The Israel Lobby the Israel Lobby LRB 23 March 2006

Quote: Pressure from Israel and the Lobby was not the only factor behind the decision to attack Iraq in March 2003, but it was critical. Some Americans believe that this was a war for oil, but there is hardly any direct evidence to support this claim. Instead, the war was motivated in good part by a desire to make Israel more secure. According to Philip Zelikow, a former member of the president’s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, the executive director of the 9/11 Commission, and now a counsellor to Condoleezza Rice, the ‘real threat’ from Iraq was not a threat to the United States. The ‘unstated threat’ was the ‘threat against Israel’, Zelikow told an audience at the University of Virginia in September 2002. ‘The American government,’ he added, ‘doesn’t want to lean too hard on it rhetorically, because it is not a popular sell.’

On 16 August 2002, 11 days before Dick Cheney kicked off the campaign for war with a hardline speech to the Veterans of Foreign Wars, the _Washington Post_ reported that ‘Israel is urging US officials not to delay a military strike against Iraq’s Saddam Hussein.’ By this point, according to Sharon, strategic co-ordination between Israel and the US had reached ‘unprecedented dimensions’, and Israeli intelligence officials had given Washington a variety of alarming reports about Iraq’s WMD programmes. As one retired Israeli general later put it, ‘Israeli intelligence was a full partner to the picture presented by American and British intelligence regarding Iraq’s non-conventional capabilities.’

Israeli leaders were deeply distressed when Bush decided to seek Security Council authorisation for war, and even more worried when Saddam agreed to let UN inspectors back in. ‘The campaign against Saddam Hussein is a must,’ Shimon Peres told reporters in September 2002. ‘Inspections and inspectors are good for decent people, but dishonest people can overcome easily inspections and inspectors.’

At the same time, Ehud Barak wrote a _New York Times_ op-ed warning that ‘the greatest risk now lies in inaction.’ His predecessor as prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, published a similar piece in the _Wall Street Journal_, entitled: ‘The Case for Toppling Saddam’. ‘Today nothing less than dismantling his regime will do,’ he declared. ‘I believe I speak for the overwhelming majority of Israelis in supporting a pre-emptive strike against Saddam’s regime.’ Or as _Ha’aretz_ reported in February 2003, ‘the military and political leadership yearns for war in Iraq.’

As Netanyahu suggested, however, the desire for war was not confined to Israel’s leaders. Apart from Kuwait, which Saddam invaded in 1990, Israel was the only country in the world where both politicians and public favoured war. As the journalist Gideon Levy observed at the time, ‘Israel is the only country in the West whose leaders support the war unreservedly and where no alternative opinion is voiced.’ In fact, Israelis were so gung-ho that their allies in America told them to damp down their rhetoric, or it would look as if the war would be fought on Israel’s behalf.

Within the US, the main driving force behind the war was a small band of neo-conservatives, many with ties to Likud. But leaders of the Lobby’s major organisations lent their voices to the campaign. ‘As President Bush attempted to sell the … war in Iraq,’ the _Forward_ reported, ‘America’s most important Jewish organisations rallied as one to his defence. In statement after statement community leaders stressed the need to rid the world of Saddam Hussein and his weapons of mass destruction.’ The editorial goes on to say that ‘concern for Israel’s safety rightfully factored into the deliberations of the main Jewish groups.’


----------



## toastman (Jun 12, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > When has America fought any way for Israel ?
> ...



No it wasn't, and nothing in your post proves that. The truth is that no one knows EXACTLY why America went to Iraq, but the decision was made by YOUR president to send AMERICAN troops to Iraq.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 12, 2015)

Daniyel said:


> 1.What oil embargoes because of Israel?


1973 oil crisis


> 6.who are the politicians that have been convicted with bribery and who were paying them?


The worst crimes are perfectly legal.

Sheldon Adelson s billions shape US politics as many question his influence US news The Guardian






Don't be afraid to read the articles I linked to.  I think I've found some worthwhile sources.


----------



## toastman (Jun 12, 2015)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird said:
> ...



The people attacking Israel were not evicted from nowhere. They were born there. Hamas keeps attacking Israel, sparking larger operation. Without those rocket attacks, there would have been no Operation Cast Lead, no Pillar of Defence, etc.... 

It's really simple. Hamas keeps 'poking the bear', and despite warnings from Israel of a large scale attack, they continue to poke the bear, and then whine when Israel hits back hard.
Now, will ceasing rocket activity solve the conflict? Of course not, but it will certainly help Gazans. Don't launch rockets, it's that simple . It really is that simple.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 12, 2015)

toastman said:


> but the decision was made by YOUR president to send AMERICAN troops to Iraq.


Politicians are merely tools of the lobbyists who put them in office.


----------



## toastman (Jun 12, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Where do you get your information from Nazi's-r-us
> ...



The modern day Nazis are the Palestinians. The Hamas charter is similar to Hitler's final solution, and Palestinians regularly call for genocide of Jews/Israelis. Just like the Nazis. 
People like you expect Israel to do nothing when they are attacked.


----------



## toastman (Jun 12, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > but the decision was made by YOUR president to send AMERICAN troops to Iraq.
> ...



This does not change what I said.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 12, 2015)

toastman said:


> It's really simple. Hamas keeps 'poking the bear', and despite warnings from Israel of a large scale attack, they continue to poke the bear, and then whine when Israel hits back hard.
> Now, will ceasing rocket activity solve the conflict? Of course not, but it will certainly help Gazans. Don't launch rockets, it's that simple . It really is that simple.


If Israel stopped bombing and generally brutalizing the Palestinians maybe the Palestinians wouldn't have to fight back.  The Israelis have been the primary aggressors in the conflict. It really is that simple.

If Americans Knew - What every American needs to know about Israel Palestine

WRMEA Middle East History Begin s Admission in 1982 That Israel Started Three of Its Wars


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 12, 2015)

toastman said:


> Palestinians regularly call for genocide of Jews/Israelis. Just like the Nazis.


Wouldn't the Nazis be the ones discriminating against a minority and committing mass murder?

Palestinian and Israeli Children Killed

Israelis and Palestinians Killed since 9 29 2000


----------



## toastman (Jun 12, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Palestinians regularly call for genocide of Jews/Israelis. Just like the Nazis.
> ...



Murder? Civilians always get killed in conflict. Murder would be the intentional targeting of civilians. Why would Israel do that? It serves them no purpose and get them condemned from the world. 
It is the Palestinians who intentionally target Israelis, and then cheer, celebrate and hand out candy upon hearing of the deaths of innocent civilians.


----------



## toastman (Jun 12, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > It's really simple. Hamas keeps 'poking the bear', and despite warnings from Israel of a large scale attack, they continue to poke the bear, and then whine when Israel hits back hard.
> ...



That's a propaganda site. If the Palestinians would stop attacking/trying to attack Israel, there would be no attacks against them. It's that simple. How has attacking Israel helped the Palestinians.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 12, 2015)

toastman said:


> Murder would be the intentional targeting of civilians.


You mean like this:



It disgusts me to see America's good name dragged in the mud because of our association with Israeli thugs.


----------



## toastman (Jun 12, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Murder would be the intentional targeting of civilians.
> ...



Look up the word TARGET. Civilians get killed in wars for various reasons; errant shells, large explosions that reach further than supposed to, human error etc... Look at what ISIS is doing, THAT is targeting civilians.  
The way to avoid civilian casualties is to not attack Israel.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 12, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > So who was to blame for the plight of Americans prior to 1980 when they first received US aid ?
> ...







 Not from the US they didn't, unless you can show differently


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 12, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Mr. H. said:
> ...







They were angry because the US also attack Iraq and then Afghanistan, and the terrorists used all 3 as excuses to mass murder 3,000 innocents


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 12, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Murder would be the intentional targeting of civilians.
> ...







 Where are the court proceedings that show that Israel murdered children. If the children are in a war zone and actively acting as human shields then they are no longer protected.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 12, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Since when have you been an Israeli spokesperson to threaten anyone with alleged nuclear weapons.
> ...






 There are more outside of Israel trying to finish the Nazi's final solution.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 12, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird said:
> ...






 They don't as it is just how you see it. and you have been brainwashed into hating the Jews by your religion..

 Every time you are asked to provide evidence you go off topic and try and derail the thread.

 Now produce the evidence of pre meditated killing, or murder, by Israel or admit that you are just stirring up RACIAL hatred for the Jews.   ( by the way your link states that the Jews are a race, so making you a liar twice over )


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 12, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > So because Arabs hate Israel, they are hostile towards America, and you are willing to succumb to them? /if they don't like America because of Israel, yo
> ...






 Only those that are militia


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 12, 2015)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird said:
> ...






 Nope as every nation has similar laws, even the U.S. who bar's many millions of people from entering every year.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 12, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Where do you get your information from Nazi's-r-us
> ...






 Strange how the pali supporters don't look at the ties between Palestinian muslims and the Nazi's that should have led to the allies riding rough shod over them during WW2.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 12, 2015)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird said:
> ...







 Because they came from outside the area to colonise Palestine after their attempts at forcing the LoN to change its mind on giving land to the Jews


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 12, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > It's really simple. Hamas keeps 'poking the bear', and despite warnings from Israel of a large scale attack, they continue to poke the bear, and then whine when Israel hits back hard.
> ...






 Maybe if the Palestinians were not so violent then Israel would have no need to retaliate. Take last summer when hamas murdered 3 Israeli children and fired over 200 rockets into Isreal  to provoke a response. The Palestinians did not like the outcome of their poking the hive and getting stung badly


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 12, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Palestinians regularly call for genocide of Jews/Israelis. Just like the Nazis.
> ...





 In the M.E the Jews are the minority, and have always been discriminated against. Now they are fighting back and you don't like it.


----------



## Hossfly (Jun 12, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird said:
> ...


That's nice.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 12, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Strange how the pali supporters don't look at the ties between Palestinian muslims and the Nazi's


Why don't we look at the ties between the Zionists and the Nazis.

THE ROLE OF ZIONISM IN THE HOLOCAUST True Torah Jews


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 12, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> They were angry because the US also attack Iraq and then Afghanistan,


You Israelis are always trying to stir up trouble between Americans and Muslims.  You always want America to do your fighting for you.  You always want America to pay your bills too.


----------



## montelatici (Jun 12, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



You know that you are full of shit.  The Jews came from Europe and colonized Palestine.  It is just a fact.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 12, 2015)

Israeli heroes are good at abusing kids and bombing civilians.  Actual fighting enemy armies is done by the Americans.


----------



## toastman (Jun 12, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Israeli heroes are good at abusing kids and bombing civilians.  Actual fighting enemy armies is done by the Americans.



Sorry, but we won't fall for your propaganda. Israel has fought several wars where they were surrounded by 5 armies, meaning they had to split their army and fight on all fronts at once, and won each time. Israel has been the MAJOR underdog in the 3 main wars she fought, outnumbered in every single aspect with her existence in question, yet still won.

Go spread your lies somewhere else ..


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 13, 2015)

toastman said:


> Sorry, but we won't fall for your propaganda. Israel has fought several wars where they were surrounded by 5 armies, meaning they had to split their army and fight on all fronts at once, and won each time. Israel has been the MAJOR underdog in the 3 main wars she fought, outnumbered in every single aspect with her existence in question, yet still won.
> 
> Go spread your lies somewhere else ..


Why this stubborn stupidity toastman?  Are you an Israeli?  Even in the 1948 Arab–Israeli War the Israelis enjoyed a massive advantage in number of soldiers and weapons. (By the way did you know many of Israel's weapons at that time were sent by Stalin?) Israel's advantage has only increased since then - mostly because of the billions supplied by the U.S. taxpayer. You couldn't be more wrong.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 13, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Strange how the pali supporters don't look at the ties between Palestinian muslims and the Nazi's
> ...






 Why don't we look at the real ties between Palestinians and the Nazi's, and not the fantasy of the N.K.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 13, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > They were angry because the US also attack Iraq and then Afghanistan,
> ...







 LINK ? ? ?


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 13, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






 Look at your own link freddy boy, it shows that many of the Jews came from the surrounding lands to escape muslim violence and atrocities. Much as the Christians in Palestine are now being ethnically cleansed by the arab muslims and forcing them to flee.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 13, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Israeli heroes are good at abusing kids and bombing civilians.  Actual fighting enemy armies is done by the Americans.






 From Palestinian sources making them biased in the extreme.  The source is the Palestinians and not CNN, which is also biased against Israel.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 13, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, but we won't fall for your propaganda. Israel has fought several wars where they were surrounded by 5 armies, meaning they had to split their army and fight on all fronts at once, and won each time. Israel has been the MAJOR underdog in the 3 main wars she fought, outnumbered in every single aspect with her existence in question, yet still won.
> ...








 The demographics alone prove you wrong with 250,000,000 adult male arab muslims surrounding Israel who have less than 3,000,000 adult male fighters. So where is the advantage in manpower, then the Saudis, Jordanians and Egyptians have F16's, tanks, guided missiles etc. so no advantage there either. The fact remains the arab muslims can not work together and that is the only advantage Israel has


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 13, 2015)

Complaints about this are being taken in the 3rd pot-o-let to the right basement section.


----------



## Challenger (Jun 13, 2015)

Hossfly said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


Remember, what goes around, comes around.


----------



## Challenger (Jun 13, 2015)

toastman said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > Israeli heroes are good at abusing kids and bombing civilians.  Actual fighting enemy armies is done by the Americans.
> ...


Regurgitating the old Hasbara canards. Unfortunately the historical record states otherwise; Zionist Israel has never been outnumbered, has started or provoked every war since 1947 and has never been threatened with destruction. All Zionist myths.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 13, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


Be careful of your wishful Karma..................

This region of the world will not always have the gift of a wimp in office and Political Correctness................

The region of Covert OR ELSE..............

That OR ELSE will eventually be challenged without rules unless they change their ways.........

When that day comes you will have something to really complain about...........


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 13, 2015)

This region was taken by force in a stand against the Germans and Ottomans during WWI at a cost of 1 to 1.5 million Allied forces............Ending the long standing rule by the Ottomans...................

Middle Eastern theatre of World War I - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

None of the countries of today there were even countries there.................and those that won the region by force of arms had every right to decide the fate of the region............including the creation of Israel at a much later date............


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 13, 2015)

The Islamic Genocide of Christians Past and Present -

Last Friday, April 24, we remembered how exactly 100 years ago the last historic Muslim caliphate, the Ottoman Empire, tried to cleanse its empire of Christian minorities —Armenians, Assyrians, and Greeks — even as we stand by watching as the new caliphate, the Islamic State, resumes the genocide.

And in both cases, the atrocities were and are being committed in the name of Islam.

In November, 1914, during WWI, the Ottoman caliphate issued a fatwa, or Islamic decree, proclaiming it a “sacred duty” for all Muslims to “massacre” infidels — specifically naming the “Christian men” of the Triple Entente, “the enemies of Islam” — with promises ofgreat rewards in the afterlife.



Sound familiar....................and eventually the world gets tired of their shit.............and smacks them down...........Nothing new for this region.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 13, 2015)




----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 13, 2015)




----------



## Challenger (Jun 13, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



Nothing to do with the Israel-Palestine conflict.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 13, 2015)

Challenger said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 13, 2015)

Challenger said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird said:
> ...







Currently there are 2 billion muslims in the world and only 12 million Jews, are you saying that the Israeli's still outnumber the muslims  ?


----------



## Hossfly (Jun 13, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


No, but Israelis have the bastards surrounded.


----------



## Daniyel (Jun 13, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > 1.What oil embargoes because of Israel?
> ...


I will begin reading the link however you missed some of my questions, I believe you probably answered few in your other posts, can you please merge them all in one post?


----------



## montelatici (Jun 13, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> This region was taken by force in a stand against the Germans and Ottomans during WWI at a cost of 1 to 1.5 million Allied forces............Ending the long standing rule by the Ottomans...................
> 
> Middle Eastern theatre of World War I - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> None of the countries of today there were even countries there.................and those that won the region by force of arms had every right to decide the fate of the region............including the creation of Israel at a much later date............



Really?  They had the right to remove the inhabitants of the conquered lands to make room for Europeans in contravention of the Covenant of the League of Nations which Britain, France and Italy signed?


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 13, 2015)

montelatici said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > This region was taken by force in a stand against the Germans and Ottomans during WWI at a cost of 1 to 1.5 million Allied forces............Ending the long standing rule by the Ottomans...................
> ...


At a cost of over a million lives taking the place I'd say so.


----------



## montelatici (Jun 13, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



The displacement of the people of Palestine from their land contravened the peace treaty and the Covenant of the League of Nations as the British themselves acknowledge:

170. With regard to the various statements mentioned in paragraph 168, the above committee considered that it was beyond its scope to express an opinion upon their proper interpretation, and that such opinion could not in any case be properly formed unless consideration had also been given to a number of other statements made during the war. In the opinion of the committee, however, it was evident from these statements that "*His Majesty's Government were not free to dispose of Palestine without regard for the wishes and interests of the inhabitants of Palestine*, and that these statements must all be taken into account in any attempt to estimate the responsibilities which—upon any interpretation of the correspondence—His Majesty's Government have incurred towards those inhabitants as a result of the correspondence"

A 364 of 3 September 1947


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 13, 2015)

montelatici said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > This region was taken by force in a stand against the Germans and Ottomans during WWI at a cost of 1 to 1.5 million Allied forces............Ending the long standing rule by the Ottomans...................
> ...







 Not according to your link which clearly shows that the LoN had given the land to the Jews


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 13, 2015)

montelatici said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 13, 2015)

And the UK did not do anything of the sort as they did not have the authority, but the LoN did and made it very clear in the Mandate.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 13, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> and those that won the region by force of arms had every right to decide the fate of the region


Might makes right?!  So the Nazis had every right to kill Jews?!


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 13, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > and those that won the region by force of arms had every right to decide the fate of the region
> ...


Yawn.......................Stop the Caliphate are eventually get your ass kicked.................

Or how about a novel idea...............stop saying convert or fucking die.....................because eventually someone is going to knock you on your ass if you don't cut it out............

So yeah.............MIGHT MAKES RIGHT..........on this equation............

btw who bombed the Nazi's into the stone age.................bye bye.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 13, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> The Islamic Genocide of Christians Past and Present -
> 
> Last Friday, April 24, we remembered how exactly 100 years ago the last historic Muslim caliphate, the Ottoman Empire, tried to cleanse its empire of Christian minorities —Armenians, Assyrians, and Greeks — even as we stand by watching as the new caliphate, the Islamic State, resumes the genocide.
> 
> And in both cases, the atrocities were and are being committed in the name of Islam.



Completely wrong!

The Young Turks who were responsible for the genocide were ardently secular!  Some of the leaders were Jews!

Young Turks - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Try not to be so ignorant.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 13, 2015)

Armenian Genocide - Facts Summary - HISTORY.com

In 1915, leaders of the Turkish government set in motion a plan to expel and massacre Armenians living in the Ottoman Empire. Though reports vary, most sources agree that there were about 2 million Armenians in the Ottoman Empire at the time of the massacre. By the early 1920s, when the massacres and deportations finally ended, some 1.5 million of Turkey’s Armenians were dead, with many more forcibly removed from the country. Today, most historians call this event a genocide–a premeditated and systematic campaign to exterminate an entire people. However, the Turkish government does not acknowledge the enormity or scope of these events. Despite pressure from Armenians and social justice advocates throughout the world, it is still illegal in Turkey to talk about what happened to Armenians during this era.

*THE RISE OF THE YOUNG TURKS*
In 1908, a new government came to power in Turkey. A group of reformers who called themselves the “Young Turks” overthrew Sultan Abdul Hamid and established a more modern constitutional government. At first, the Armenians were hopeful that they would have an equal place in this new state, but they soon learned that what the nationalistic Young Turks wanted most of all was to “Turkify” the empire. According to this way of thinking, non-Turks–and especially Christian non-Turks–were a grave threat to the new state

*GENOCIDE BEGINS*
On April 24, 1915, the Armenian genocide began. That day, the Turkish government arrested and executed several hundred Armenian intellectuals. After that, ordinary Armenians were turned out of their homes and* sent on death marches through the Mesopotamian desert without food or water. Frequently, the marchers were stripped naked and forced to walk under the scorching sun until they dropped dead.* People who stopped to rest were shot.

At the same time, *the Young Turks created a “Special Organization,” which in turn organized “killing squads” or “butcher battalions” to carry out, as one officer put it, “the liquidation of the Christian elements.” *These killing squads were often made up of murderers and other ex-convicts. *They drowned people in rivers, threw them off cliffs, crucified them and burned them alive. In short order, the Turkish countryside was littered with Armenian corpses.*

Records show that during this “Turkification”campaign government squads also kidnapped children, converted them to Islam and gave them to Turkish families. In some places, they raped women and forced them to join Turkish “harems” or serve as slaves. Muslim families moved into the homes of deported Armenians and seized their property.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 13, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Armenian Genocide - Facts Summary - HISTORY.com
> 
> In 1915, leaders of the Turkish government set in motion a plan to expel and massacre Armenians living in the Ottoman Empire. Though reports vary, most sources agree that there were about 2 million Armenians in the Ottoman Empire at the time of the massacre. By the early 1920s, when the massacres and deportations finally ended, some 1.5 million of Turkey’s Armenians were dead, with many more forcibly removed from the country. Today, most historians call this event a genocide–a premeditated and systematic campaign to exterminate an entire people. However, the Turkish government does not acknowledge the enormity or scope of these events. Despite pressure from Armenians and social justice advocates throughout the world, it is still illegal in Turkey to talk about what happened to Armenians during this era.
> 
> ...


The Young Turks were awful I couldn't agree more!

But the Young Turks who were responsible for the genocide were ardently secular and some of the leaders were Jews.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 13, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Armenian Genocide - Facts Summary - HISTORY.com
> ...


The Ottomans treated those of other faiths, especially Armenians as dogs..........They only tolerated them when they paid the fees of being a non believer...............Before WWI they had already started the cleansing.................and your attempt to put of the GENOCIDE IS UTTER BS..............They slaughtered about 1.5 million christians to every man women and child for allah.............because they were different..............

These guys helped stop the Ottoman BS in the 6 month campaign for GAZA.............WWI......


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 13, 2015)

BTW............These Aussies were outnumbered 3 to 1 there............

Under fire for 3.5 miles...............

And Won against the turks opening the road for Jerusalem.............and Paved the way for modern day ISREAL............


----------



## Kondor3 (Jun 13, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> American taxpayers are forced to pay billions of dollars to Israel...



We give a LOT of people foreign (and large-scale) military aid...

United States foreign aid - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Including Egypt, Pakistan, etc.

And, much of Israel's foreign military aid comes back to the US, in the form of credits against orders for Military Purchases from the US, creating jobs, etc., on our end.



> ... America has suffered through oil embargoes because of Israel...


America has suffered through oil embargoes because Muslim-dominated powers tried to dictate to the United States, whom it may befriend, and whom it may be allies with, and whom it may not.

The Muslim blackmail did not succeed.



> ...America has fought wars for Israel...


No, it hasn't.



> ...And what has Israel done for the U.S.?...


It has shared intelligence findings with the United States and it has shared its own commercial and medical and military research results and it has provided a tripwire and pre-arranged staging area and advance-base in the Middle East should we ever need it and it has served as a tuning-range and proving ground for many US weapons systems.

Just to get warmed up... somebody else can expand upon that list for us.



> ...In gratitude the Israelis have conducted damaging spy operations against the U.S...


Yep... major powers tend to do that to each other... hell... look at us, versus the Germans, and French, and British, and that very, very recently, right?



> ...and sold advanced weapons to our most dangerous adversaries...


True. When the Obama Administration serves-up its latest anti-Israeli hissy-fit, the Israelis DO tend to take care of themselves first, and us second.



> ...American interests are not served by propping up apartheid Israel...


Israel is not an Apartheid state, regardless of how many pissants in the Old Ladies' Debating Society (a.k.a. the UN) in thrall to Islam, would like to portray it that way.



> ...Our politicians are bribed to betray our country and put Israel first...


No, they aren't.

They are openly lobbied.

Much along the lines of the lobbying that other countries engage in, as well, in dealing with our lawmakers.

If you conduct an investigation of foreign lobbying corruption, my guess is that you'll find a great many other countries engaged in unscrupulous lobbying.

Furthermore, I cannot, at the moment, recall an instance wherein an American lawmaker subordinated America's interests to those of Israel, in any substantive fashion.



> ...American subservience to Israel creates hatred for America throughout the Muslim world, terrorism, instability, and aversion to American ideals and reform.


America is not subservient to Israel.

Israel, on the other hand, is still, to some extent, dependent upon American goodwill, in order to thrive.

As to hatred for America throughout a re-awakening and re-militarizing Islam - shaking itself awake after several centuries under the heel of European Imperialism - Islam hates The West in general, and America in particular, as The West's dominant faction - as much for our modern culture and technical superiority as anything to do with Israel.

Rather, we need to remain on-guard against chickenshit cheese-eating surrender monkeys, and Muslim fifth-columnists, and their Useful Idiots and fellow travelers.

How's that Muslim-centric "_Divide and Conquer_" strategy workin' out for ya so far, there, Achmed?


----------



## montelatici (Jun 13, 2015)

What we need is to be on guard against fascists and traitors like Kondor who puts the interest of foreign countries above our own, and is your typical chicken hawk who has never served or seen war.


----------



## SAYIT (Jun 13, 2015)

montelatici said:


> What we need is to be on guard against fascists and traitors like Kondor who puts the interest of foreign countries above our own, and is your typical chicken hawk who has never served or seen war.


 
"We," Monte? Would that be you and all the munchkins living in your (pin)head or you and the rest of your little Nazi cabal here?


----------



## montelatici (Jun 13, 2015)

SAYIT said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > What we need is to be on guard against fascists and traitors like Kondor who puts the interest of foreign countries above our own, and is your typical chicken hawk who has never served or seen war.
> ...




You mean the anti-Zionist and anti-Nazi America Firster cabal.


----------



## SAYIT (Jun 13, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> ...So the Nazis had every right to kill Jews?!



Clearly one such as you has no doubt about the legitimacy of his forebear's actions but it is good to see you admit to them.


----------



## Kondor3 (Jun 13, 2015)

montelatici said:


> What we need is to be on guard against fascists and traitors like Kondor...


Blow it out your ass, Achmed.



> ...who puts the interest of foreign countries above our own...


Never have.

Never will.

And, seriously, I doubt you're even an American.



> ....and is your typical chicken hawk...


Given that I am not advocating War, that is highly amusing.



> ...who has never served...


Two years... US Army... documented elsewhere on this board system.



> ...or seen war.


True.

Volunteered in wartime.

Got sent to a non-combat foreign theater of operations.

But I showed-up for the party when my country needed help.

==============================================================

You lie, Achmed.

Now... confine yourself to the subject matter, rather than personal attacks, eh?


----------



## montelatici (Jun 13, 2015)

No you are the liar, and you were never in the U.S. Army as I was, maybe the IDF.


----------



## Kondor3 (Jun 13, 2015)

SAYIT said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > What we need is to be on guard against fascists and traitors like Kondor who puts the interest of foreign countries above our own, and is your typical chicken hawk who has never served or seen war.
> ...


Nahhhhh... just the other members of his Radical Muslim sleeper-cell.


----------



## Kondor3 (Jun 13, 2015)

montelatici said:


> No you are the liar, and you were never in the U.S. Army as I was, maybe the IDF.



Attn Veterans Page 23 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum


----------



## toastman (Jun 13, 2015)

montelatici said:


> What we need is to be on guard against fascists and traitors like Kondor who puts the interest of foreign countries above our own, and is your typical chicken hawk who has never served or seen war.




Explain how Kondor has put foreign interests above his own country?


----------



## SAYIT (Jun 13, 2015)

montelatici said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > "We," Monte? Would that be you and all the munchkins living in your (pin)head or you and the rest of your little Nazi cabal here?
> ...



Yeah ... whatever. I am amused by your wrapping yourself in the American flag.


----------



## montelatici (Jun 13, 2015)

Our partiality towards Israel harms our interests all over the world.  Especially with the Muslim masses.  The next generation will grow to hate us more than the current generation.  We are spending our resources trying to keep multiple pots from boiling over.  At the end of the day, when Muslims need a reason to hate us, the example is how we help Israel kill Palestinians.


----------



## Kondor3 (Jun 13, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Our partiality towards Israel harms our interests all over the world...


Not really.



> ...Especially with the Muslim masses...


They're brainwashed to hate The West anyway - especially America. Less to do with Israel than to do with a re-awakening and re-militarizing Islam.



> ..The next generation will grow to hate us more than the current generation...


Phukk 'em.



> ...We are spending our resources trying to keep multiple pots from boiling over...


Yep. That's because we try to Nation Build after we kick ass. It would be nice not to have to kick-ass, but it is pointless to nation-build amongst such Neanderthals.



> ...At the end of the day, when Muslims need a reason to hate us...


They need no reason... they hate The West in general with no connection to Israel whatsoever.



> ...the example is how we help Israel kill Palestinians.


We do not help Israel to kill Palestinians.

We help Israel to defend itself against the Barbarians at its gates.


----------



## montelatici (Jun 13, 2015)

Well, if killing 500 children every in a matter of weeks is Israel "defending itself", you need to see a psychiatrist.  In any case, it is a worthless cause because Israel will have to compromise or disappear.  We should be facilitating a compromise instead of making compromise (a South African solution) impossible rather than helping Israel put itself into a corner, making a Rhodesian (or Algerian) solution the only result.  You can't overcome demographics and even the U.S. wouldn't allow Israel to eliminate all the Christians and Muslims now under Israeli control.


----------



## toastman (Jun 13, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Well, if killing 500 children every in a matter of weeks is Israel "defending itself", you need to see a psychiatrist.  In any case, it is a worthless cause because Israel will have to compromise or disappear.  We should be facilitating a compromise instead of making compromise (a South African solution) impossible rather than helping Israel put itself into a corner, making a Rhodesian (or Algerian) solution the only result.  You can't overcome demographics and even the U.S. wouldn't allow Israel to eliminate all the Christians and Muslims now under Israeli control.



Israel isn't trying to eliminate anyone. 

Let me put it this way for you; If Israel could invent a weapon that only kills militants (obviously impossible) , they would.

If the Palestinians could invent a weapon that would destroy all of Israel without harming themselves, they would.


----------



## montelatici (Jun 13, 2015)

"We say – peace is not the issue, we need to get rid of the Palestinians. It threatens us, it chokes us. Ultimately the State of Israel cannot continue on while unnaturally absorbing four million Palestinians. Eventually they will tell us, “if you don’t want to give us a country of our own, let us vote”. And then, if we let them vote, it will be the end of the Jewish state. If we won’t let them – it will be the end of a democratic Israel, and I won’t allow that to happen."

Lapid (Israeli Minister of Finance)

Lapid We need to get rid of the Palestinians - Israel News Ynetnews


----------



## toastman (Jun 13, 2015)

montelatici said:


> "We say – peace is not the issue, we need to get rid of the Palestinians. It threatens us, it chokes us. Ultimately the State of Israel cannot continue on while unnaturally absorbing four million Palestinians. Eventually they will tell us, “if you don’t want to give us a country of our own, let us vote”. And then, if we let them vote, it will be the end of the Jewish state. If we won’t let them – it will be the end of a democratic Israel, and I won’t allow that to happen."
> 
> Lapid (Israeli Minister of Finance)
> 
> Lapid We need to get rid of the Palestinians - Israel News Ynetnews



And ?


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 13, 2015)

Kondor3 said:


> Including Egypt, Pakistan, etc.


Egypt only receives money because they agreed to stop defending the Palestinians. More American $$$$ to further Israeli goals.



> America has suffered through oil embargoes because Muslim-dominated powers tried to dictate to the United States, whom it may befriend,


*Befriend?!* lol Israel uses the U.S.



> It has shared intelligence findings with the United States


You mean self-serving lies?

USATODAY.com - General Israelis exaggerated Iraq threat



> pre-arranged staging area and advance-base in the Middle East


Aren't you aware that Israeli troops sat out the wars with Iraq?



> Yep... major powers tend to do that to each other... hell... look at us, versus the Germans, and French, and British, and that very, very recently, right?


Check out the site I linked to and you'll discover the damage caused by Israeli spies.



> True. When the Obama Administration serves-up its latest anti-Israeli hissy-fit, the Israelis DO tend to take care of themselves first, and us second.


Obama is mostly subservient to the Israelis.  And please note that Israel has been helping the PRC long before Obama became president.



> They are openly lobbied.


Open corruption is no better than secret corruption.



> Furthermore, I cannot, at the moment, recall an instance wherein an American lawmaker subordinated America's interests to those of Israel, in any substantive fashion.


Ha ha ha ha!

Even Fox News is outraged at Boehner and Netanyahu's plan to undermine Obama



> Islam hates The West in general, and America in particular,


Not really.  In the past the United States was not an imperial power in the Mideast like the British or the French.  We were admired by many.

Kondor3 you may be an Israeli, but if you are not please wake up! Our current strategy of blowing up Muslim kids is not working - it's only creating more terrorists! We should force the Israelis to behave decently and stop abusing the Palestinians.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 14, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > and those that won the region by force of arms had every right to decide the fate of the region
> ...







 Is that what you think, that you should be allowed to kill the Jews because they are no longer walk overs ?


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 14, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > The Islamic Genocide of Christians Past and Present -
> ...






 Still they claimed to be doing it in the name of islam


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 14, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Armenian Genocide - Facts Summary - HISTORY.com
> ...







 So why did they force conversion to islam and claim that they followed the teachings of mihammed ?


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 14, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Including Egypt, Pakistan, etc.
> ...







 And when will you force the Palestinians to behave decently and stop trying to wipe out the Jews. I gather you don't live in an area with a large muslim population, and don't see how they live. Then don't get intimidated by gangs who threaten you, and say anything at all and the police arrest you for racism. That is the true face of islam the world over.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 14, 2015)

montelatici said:


> What we need is to be on guard against fascists and traitors like Kondor who puts the interest of foreign countries above our own, and is your typical chicken hawk who has never served or seen war.







 You are the traitor and fascist that puts the interests of islam above those of the US, then demands the wholesale slaughter of the Jews because your religion has taught you they killed another Jew.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 14, 2015)

montelatici said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






 You mean the anti Zionist and anti American islam firsters cabal that you are a minor member of.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 14, 2015)

montelatici said:


> No you are the liar, and you were never in the U.S. Army as I was, maybe the IDF.







 What as a corporal cook, as we all know Italians don't like war and will run a mile at the first sign of trouble


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 14, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Our partiality towards Israel harms our interests all over the world.  Especially with the Muslim masses.  The next generation will grow to hate us more than the current generation.  We are spending our resources trying to keep multiple pots from boiling over.  At the end of the day, when Muslims need a reason to hate us, the example is how we help Israel kill Palestinians.







 If you knew muslims then you would know they already have a reason to hate us, WE ARE NOT MUSLIMS.  You are using the muslims excuses that they change to suit their POV every day, to skirt the real issues. You are a brainwashed Jew hater that is allied to nazism and is using the Palestinians as an excuse for your NAZI ANTI SEMITIC JEW HATREDS.


----------



## Challenger (Jun 14, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...


I agree, your post was complete


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 14, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Well, if killing 500 children every in a matter of weeks is Israel "defending itself", you need to see a psychiatrist.  In any case, it is a worthless cause because Israel will have to compromise or disappear.  We should be facilitating a compromise instead of making compromise (a South African solution) impossible rather than helping Israel put itself into a corner, making a Rhodesian (or Algerian) solution the only result.  You can't overcome demographics and even the U.S. wouldn't allow Israel to eliminate all the Christians and Muslims now under Israeli control.







 If killing thousands of innocent children in a matter of hours is islam defending itself then you are screwed because that is the toll every week. Why shouldn't it be Palestine that should compromise or disappear, and why should you be holding yourself above the law and demanding that illegal actions be forced on the Jews and not the muslims. Israel can overcome demographics and enclose the Palestinians behind a wall until they kill themselves off. There is no legal means of forcing Israel to take in palestinians or to give them aid, so all they need do is wait things out and in the end the rest of the world will forced the Palestinians to come to the table and negotiate.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 14, 2015)

Challenger said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...


I agree that we should make a parking lot out of GAZA.................put a shopping mall on it.................


----------



## TheGreatGatsby (Jun 14, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> American taxpayers are forced to pay billions of dollars to Israel.  America has suffered through oil embargoes because of Israel.  America has fought wars for Israel.  And what has Israel done for the U.S.?  In gratitude the Israelis have conducted damaging spy operations against the U.S. and sold advanced weapons to our most dangerous adversaries.
> 
> American interests are not served by propping up apartheid Israel. Our politicians are bribed to betray our country and put Israel first.  American subservience to Israel creates hatred for America throughout the Muslim world, terrorism, instability, and aversion to American ideals and reform.



And Islamic nations smell like a rose in all of this, don't they?


----------



## Challenger (Jun 14, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...





TheGreatGatsby said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > American taxpayers are forced to pay billions of dollars to Israel.  America has suffered through oil embargoes because of Israel.  America has fought wars for Israel.  And what has Israel done for the U.S.?  In gratitude the Israelis have conducted damaging spy operations against the U.S. and sold advanced weapons to our most dangerous adversaries.
> ...



No they don't. Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the gulf states are all repressive regimes who ignore basic human rights, are undemocratic...and all propped up by, or allies of, America. America destroyed Iraq and created Islamic State and is standing by watching Syria implode. Curious that Iraq and Syria were the main opponents of Zionist israel. The U.S. doesn't smell much like a rose, either.


----------



## Challenger (Jun 14, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



You keep trying, but its still there.


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 14, 2015)

Challenger said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird said:
> ...



Egypt is getting better, since the Muslim Brotherhood fell.  As for America standing by and watching Syria implode, I have mixed feeling about that.  I don't want America getting involved in a quagmire.  On the other hand, when I hear about Christians being beheaded, I think we should do everything possible to stop that.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 14, 2015)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> And Islamic nations smell like a rose in all of this, don't they?


If America wants reform and stability in the Muslim world we should stop propping up the apartheid state of Israel.  Palestinians have legitimate grievances against Israel that need to be addressed.  I am calling for fairness and peace.


----------



## Lipush (Jun 14, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> > And Islamic nations smell like a rose in all of this, don't they?
> ...



I just love it that US fighting alongside Israel pisses people like you off.


----------



## SAYIT (Jun 14, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> I agree that we should make a parking lot out of GAZA.................put a shopping mall on it.................



Gaza has a fine new shopping mall:


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 14, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> > And Islamic nations smell like a rose in all of this, don't they?
> ...





How about some links then from unbiased sources that prove Israel is apartheid, and that the Palestinians have legitimate grievances against Israel ?


----------



## Lipush (Jun 14, 2015)

SAYIT said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > I agree that we should make a parking lot out of GAZA.................put a shopping mall on it.................
> ...



But I thought they're starving? 

That's what people like EagleBeagle keep feeding us..


----------



## TheGreatGatsby (Jun 14, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> > And Islamic nations smell like a rose in all of this, don't they?
> ...



Your opinion reeks of anti semitism. Israel is not the reason that Islamic nations are piss poor places.


----------



## SAYIT (Jun 14, 2015)

Lipush said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



Eagle doesn't say that but it's a LIE the anti-Israel cabal keeps repeating.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 14, 2015)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Your opinion reeks of anti semitism. Israel is not the reason that Islamic nations are piss poor places.


Fairness and peace = anti-Semitism?! lol


----------



## Lipush (Jun 14, 2015)

Repeating lies against Israel is fairness? LOLZ


----------



## TheGreatGatsby (Jun 14, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> > Your opinion reeks of anti semitism. Israel is not the reason that Islamic nations are piss poor places.
> ...



You're not worried about fairness and peace either. You mideast political hacks are a dime a dozen. We don't fall for your false pretenses.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 14, 2015)

Israel torturing Palestinian children:


----------



## Challenger (Jun 15, 2015)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



Getting better? 1,000 people murdered, 10's of thousands held in inhumane captivity, just for disagreeing with the government. A regime that had to extend elections and force people to vote so the scumbag in charge could get enough votes to look "legitimate" so America wouldn't stop "aid" payments. Show trials and fabricated evidence, increased violence against women. If you really think Egypt is getting better, you're either impossibly naive or a degenerate psychopath. Documents on Egypt Human Rights Watch


----------



## Challenger (Jun 15, 2015)

Lipush said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > TheGreatGatsby said:
> ...



Doesn't piss me off, just makes me sad. Once upon a time America was a country to be admired.


----------



## Challenger (Jun 15, 2015)

SAYIT said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > I agree that we should make a parking lot out of GAZA.................put a shopping mall on it.................
> ...



Really?

Israeli Military Posts Lavish Malaysian Mall Photo to Show Gaza s High Life 

the reality

Israel s shelling of Gaza mall leaves shop owners in shock Middle East Worldbulletin News


----------



## Challenger (Jun 15, 2015)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > TheGreatGatsby said:
> ...


Probably because you believe Fox News is "Fair and Balanced"


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 15, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Israel torturing Palestinian children:






 Break the law and you will be arrested, resist arrest and you will be hurt. When you and the Palestinian terrorists start to understand this then you might stop being stupid


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 15, 2015)

Challenger said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 15, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird said:
> ...






 Do you mean like the UK was until you neo Marxist gained power and threw millions of 12 year old schoolgirls to muslim terrorists in return for a handful of votes. Why the vast majority of areas in which gangs of muslims groomed, raped and prostituted British schoolgirls where neo Marxist ran.

 Do you feel proud of what your ideology did over the 14 years they where in power ?


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 15, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > Israel torturing Palestinian children:
> ...


Lame excuses trying to justify the torture of children. Wow.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 15, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Do you mean like the UK was until you neo Marxist gained power


I couldn't be more anti-Marxist.

You know not a few Marxists have supported Israel.  Israel owes its existence to Stalin!


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 15, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird said:
> ...







 Do you mean like when hamas kidnapped and tortured those 3 Israeli children to death last summer.  

 Look at your video and you can see that they are terrorist scum and hardly children. They got what was coming to them, just as they would get if they rose up against hamas.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 15, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Do you mean like the UK was until you neo Marxist gained power
> ...







 LINK


----------



## Daniyel (Jun 15, 2015)

Daniyel said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > American taxpayers are forced to pay billions of dollars to Israel.  America has suffered through oil embargoes because of Israel.  America has fought wars for Israel.  And what has Israel done for the U.S.?  In gratitude the Israelis have conducted damaging spy operations against the U.S. and sold advanced weapons to our most dangerous adversaries.
> ...


Thunderbird


----------



## montelatici (Jun 15, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...




Like this 5 year old terrorist arrested by 6 IDF brutes?


----------



## montelatici (Jun 15, 2015)

Or these kids? A more recent Australian expose' from 2014.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 15, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird said:
> ...







Where is label saying I am a five year old Palestinian ?


----------



## Lipush (Jun 15, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird said:
> ...



That doesn't bother me as much as the Fogel's torture did.

Wonder why


----------



## Spare_change (Jun 15, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > No I'm not but the OP is another "Hate Israel Because" story and I don't buy that crap.
> ...



Yeah ... pretty much.

I spent most of those years since Israel was created in the military - and I don't remember a single war we fought for Israel. I do remember a myriad of incidents in which Israel helped to further American interests, though.

The rest of the OP? Same ol' anti-Israel rhetoric that twists and perverts the truth - and tries to blame Israel for the decisions of the US. 

Go sell it where somebody gives a damn ....


----------



## Spare_change (Jun 15, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Any of those statements from official sources or are the blogs, tweets and opinions the evidence?
> ...



That's not true --- your 'sources' are opinion pieces, propaganda, anti-Israel hit pieces, and, mostly, just plain intellectually dishonest.

You really should be embarrassed for attaching yourself to this kind of garbage. It severely damages your credibility.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby (Jun 15, 2015)

Challenger said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird said:
> ...



I couldn't even tell you the last time I watched FNC....If you're starting from a position that Israel is what's wrong with the Middle East, then you're not taking an honest look at it.


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 15, 2015)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > TheGreatGatsby said:
> ...



Right, Great Gatsby.  I even heard Obama say once that the falling apart of the Arab world in the past few years should have convinced anyone by now that the Israel/Palestine conflict is not the root of the Middle East's problems.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 15, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Like this 5 year old terrorist arrested by 6 IDF brutes?


Yea those toddlers look pretty dangerous.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 15, 2015)

Spare_change said:


> The rest of the OP? Same ol' anti-Israel rhetoric that twists and perverts the truth - and tries to blame Israel for the decisions of the US.


This kind of blanket denunciation is pointless.  If you disagree please be more specific.


----------



## Spare_change (Jun 15, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Spare_change said:
> 
> 
> > The rest of the OP? Same ol' anti-Israel rhetoric that twists and perverts the truth - and tries to blame Israel for the decisions of the US.
> ...




Ok. I REALLY disagree -- boy, do I REALLY disagree. 

Is that specific enough?


----------



## Spare_change (Jun 15, 2015)

To give you something to chew on - 

*American interests are not served by propping up apartheid Israel.Our politicians are bribed to betray our country and put Israel first. American subservience to Israel creates hatred for America throughout the Muslim world, terrorism, instability, and aversion to American ideals and reform.*

Can you maybe point out all these bribes? Maybe you have specific instances of when politicians "betrayed our country and put Israel first". How about this "American subservience"? A few examples if you don't mind. The rest is pure jingoism.


----------



## montelatici (Jun 15, 2015)

*"The war in Iraq was conceived by 25 neoconservative intellectuals, most of them Jewish, who are pushing President Bush to change the course of history."*

White man s burden - - Haaretz Daily Newspaper Israel News


----------



## Spare_change (Jun 15, 2015)

montelatici said:


> *"The war in Iraq was conceived by 25 neoconservative intellectuals, most of them Jewish, who are pushing President Bush to change the course of history."*
> 
> White man s burden - - Haaretz Daily Newspaper Israel News




It's bad enough that we have to listen to US leftist nonsense, now we're supposed to get excited about an Israeli propaganda piece???

Yawn.


----------



## Hossfly (Jun 15, 2015)

montelatici said:


> *"The war in Iraq was conceived by 25 neoconservative intellectuals, most of them Jewish, who are pushing President Bush to change the course of history."*
> 
> White man s burden - - Haaretz Daily Newspaper Israel News


That article is 12 years old and full of bull. Haaretz is the National Enquirer of Israel. They still claim Elvis is alive.


----------



## montelatici (Jun 15, 2015)

Spare_change said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > *"The war in Iraq was conceived by 25 neoconservative intellectuals, most of them Jewish, who are pushing President Bush to change the course of history."*
> ...



Israeli propaganda piece?


----------



## Hossfly (Jun 15, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Spare_change said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


Haaretz. Liberal garbage.


----------



## montelatici (Jun 15, 2015)

*"Kerry accuses Netanyahu of cheerleading 2003 Iraq war"*

*Kerry accuses Netanyahu of cheerleading 2003 Iraq war The Times of Israel*


----------



## montelatici (Jun 15, 2015)




----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 15, 2015)

Spare_change said:


> Can you maybe point out all these bribes?


Sure.

Dana Milbank GOP candidates kiss up to billionaire Sheldon Adelson - The Washington Post

Legalized Bribery Has Allowed Sheldon Adelson to Buy and Sell Politicians

GOP Pro Gay Marriage Funder s Other Agenda Bombing Iran The Nation

Israeli billionaire Saban biggest donor to US politicians - Israel Business Ynetnews

Who do you suppose the politicians will serve, these pro-Israel billionaires or the American people?



> Maybe you have specific instances of when politicians "betrayed our country and put Israel first".
> 
> How about this "American subservience"?


Sure.

John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt The Israel Lobby the Israel Lobby LRB 23 March 2006

Chris Wallace Shep Smith Criticize Netanyahu s Visit To Congress

The Staggering Cost of Israel to Americans


----------



## Hossfly (Jun 15, 2015)

montelatici said:


> *"Kerry accuses Netanyahu of cheerleading 2003 Iraq war"*
> 
> *Kerry accuses Netanyahu of cheerleading 2003 Iraq war The Times of Israel*


So did a lot of people. Me included. Besides, Kerry sucks.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 15, 2015)

Check out this article: Never Doubt That a Small Group of Thoughtful Committed Neocons Can Destroy the World If We Let Them Coleen Rowley


----------



## skye (Jun 15, 2015)

Hossfly said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Spare_change said:
> ...




I agree.

Haaretz was, is and always will be  liberal shit.


----------



## toastman (Jun 15, 2015)

The bottom line is, the U.S president is the one who made the decision to go to war.


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 15, 2015)

montelatici,  et al,

OK!  I'm confused.



montelatici said:


> *"Kerry accuses Netanyahu of cheerleading 2003 Iraq war"*
> 
> *Kerry accuses Netanyahu of cheerleading 2003 Iraq war The Times of Israel*


*(QUESTION)*

What difference does this make?

And _(even though this has absolutely no relevance to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict)_ I thought, in the fall of 2002, that Secretary Kerry voted for the war resolution.  Senator Kerry has no room to talk.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 16, 2015)

toastman said:


> The bottom line is, the U.S president is the one who made the decision to go to war.


The bottom line is the president does what the lobbyists tell him to do.


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 16, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > The bottom line is, the U.S president is the one who made the decision to go to war.
> ...



That is not true.  Lobbyists don't have that much power.  Obama said that Israel must withdraw to the '67 lines.  Obama also treats Netanyahu like shit.  Do you think the lobbyists want that?  Also, despite all the money that Adelson gave to Romney, Obama still won the election.


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 16, 2015)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



My own opinion of the Second Iraq war is as follows:  It was fought for 3 reasons.  1)  Vice-President Cheney had major connections in an oil company called Haliburton, and he wanted a contact in Iraq for oil.  2)  Bush wanted revenge for his father.  Saddam tried to assassinate the older Bush.  It was a personal grudge.  When I pointed this out in another thread once, someone said that I was not a good son if I didn't feel it was right to lead an entire nation into war to protect my father's honor.  I'm sorry, but I don't relate to that kind of thinking.  3)  Yes, it was also fought to protect Israel, and supposedly create a democratic Middle East.  What the planners of the war didn't count on was that the Arabs/Muslims would never be able to create a democracy.  They must be ruled by a strong, ruthless secular dictator--otherwise, they fall into Islamic messes.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 16, 2015)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> That is not true.  Lobbyists don't have that much power.


Don't be naïve.



> Obama said that Israel must withdraw to the '67 lines.  Obama also treats Netanyahu like shit.


Don't be a drama queen.  Netanyahu is arrogant and got almost everything he demanded.

Obama and Netanyahu agree Iranian nuclear program is a top priority - CBS News



> Also, despite all the money that Adelson gave to Romney, Obama still won the election.


Because other lobbyists gave Obama even more! lol

Obama has received more money from Wall Street than any politician - National Libertarian Examiner.com


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 16, 2015)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> 1)  Vice-President Cheney had major connections in an oil company called Haliburton, and he wanted a contact in Iraq for oil.


To be more exact, Haliburton is an oil field services company, but I see your point.  The left likes to blame everything on oil companies, but it this case the left is mistaken.  Oil companies had huge investments in the Mideast and consequently wanted stability above all.  The chaotic mess we see in Iraq only benefits Israel.  Israel was happy to see their enemy torn to pieces in civil war.

The War For Oil Myth



> 2)  Bush wanted revenge for his father.  Saddam tried to assassinate the older Bush.  It was a personal grudge.


Silly.



> 3)  Yes, it was also fought to protect Israel,


I agree.



> and supposedly create a democratic Middle East.


Again this is very naïve.


----------



## montelatici (Jun 16, 2015)

"_For the hawks, disorder and chaos sweeping through the region would not be an unfortunate side-effect of war with Iraq, but a sign that everything is going according to plan._

_In their eyes, Iraq is just the starting point – or, as a recent presentation at the Pentagon put it, “the tactical pivot” – for re-moulding the Middle East on Israeli-American lines. _

_This reverses the usual approach in international relations where stability is seen as the key to peace, and whether or not you like your neighbours, you have to find ways of living with them. No, say the hawks. If you don’t like the neighbours, get rid of them. _

_The “skittles theory” of the Middle East – that one ball aimed at Iraq can knock down several regimes – has been around for some time on the wilder fringes of politics but has come to the fore in the United States on the back of the “war against terrorism”._

_Its roots can be traced, at least in part, to a paper published in 1996 by an Israeli thinktank, the Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies. Entitled “A clean break: a new strategy for securing the realm”, it was intended as a political blueprint for the incoming government of Binyamin Netanyahu. As the title indicates, it advised the right-wing Mr Netanyahu to make a complete break with the past by adopting a strategy “based on an entirely new intellectual foundation, one that restores strategic initiative and provides the nation the room to engage every possible energy on rebuilding Zionism …” _

- See more at: The World Was Right about Iraq Israel Wins Clean Break


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 16, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Like this 5 year old terrorist arrested by 6 IDF brutes?
> ...







 And those Israeli's look like Palestinians pretending to be IDF and getting everything wrong


----------



## montelatici (Jun 16, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



LOL. The deflection techniques from the Hasbara are getting creative.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 16, 2015)

montelatici said:


> "_For the hawks, disorder and chaos sweeping through the region would not be an unfortunate side-effect of war with Iraq, but a sign that everything is going according to plan._
> 
> _In their eyes, Iraq is just the starting point – or, as a recent presentation at the Pentagon put it, “the tactical pivot” – for re-moulding the Middle East on Israeli-American lines. _
> 
> ...






 caught using a biased source again after declaring you only use UN archives.   WHAT A LIAR YOU ARE


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 16, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird said:
> ...






 And what have you to say about your LIES


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 16, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird said:
> ...





We leave that to you freddy boy, after all you deflect and derail threads all the time. So much so that everyone is picking up on it now


----------



## montelatici (Jun 16, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Your use of projection is quite interesting to observe.  Unfortunately, I don't think you realize how transparent you are.  Everyone can see what you are doing, whether they admit it or not.


----------



## Spare_change (Jun 16, 2015)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird said:
> ...




Clearly, you don't live around the corner from reality ..... you're a long, long way from there.

The first time I read through it, I thought it was a piece from Onion ....


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 16, 2015)

Spare_change said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > ForeverYoung436 said:
> ...





Spare_change said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > ForeverYoung436 said:
> ...



Well, why do you think we fought the Second Iraq War?   To save us from those WMD that didn't exist at all?  At the time it was happening, I read alot about it.


----------



## pbel (Jun 16, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> > They are responsible for all the Muslim terror the latest from ISIS who burns people to death?
> ...





Thunderbird said:


> American taxpayers are forced to pay billions of dollars to Israel.  America has suffered through oil embargoes because of Israel.  America has fought wars for Israel.  And what has Israel done for the U.S.?  In gratitude the Israelis have conducted damaging spy operations against the U.S. and sold advanced weapons to our most dangerous adversaries.
> 
> American interests are not served by propping up apartheid Israel. Our politicians are bribed to betray our country and put Israel first.  American subservience to Israel creates hatred for America throughout the Muslim world, terrorism, instability, and aversion to American ideals and reform.


Sadly, the AIPAC noose is very secure around our American Government Congress paid for foot soldiers for Israel...We all saw Netanyahu receiving standup applause from both sides of the isle...

It has been only with the body-bags coming home from Israel's War in Iraq and terrorist bombings in American that our academics and young people who die for the one percent question our alliance with a state that
thumbs its nose at International Law while waiving hidden nukes at all her neighbors...


Americans need to let the ME sort out its problems, the Palestinian issue is the fuse to the larger issue of Western imposed Colonialism via Israel...

Let them sort it out without Americans dying for their cause!
This is America's challenge for the next generation, too shake off the Oligarchy in America and give back power to the people!


----------



## Indofred (Jun 16, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > No I'm not but the OP is another "Hate Israel Because" story and I don't buy that crap.
> ...



They can't - mostly because you made no errors.
Corrupt politicians are making a mint out of putting Americans in the firing line.
The proof is simple - tell me about Islamic terrorist attacks on the US before the US started to mess in middle eastern politics.

I'll save you the bother - there were none. (Watch some idiot bring up the Barbary pirates)


----------



## Challenger (Jun 17, 2015)

Indofred said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


Since you mention the Barbary Pirates, the first terrorist suicide bombing took place in Tripoli, carried out by Americans.


----------



## Challenger (Jun 17, 2015)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > TheGreatGatsby said:
> ...



I started out supporting Israel...then I took an honest look at it.


----------



## Indofred (Jun 17, 2015)

This always gets me. There were no terrorist attacks on America until America attacked a bunch of countries. 
Then America blames the people it attacked.

Stupidity.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 17, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...







 How many times have you been pulled up short for deflecting and derailing this week alone freddy boy ?


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 17, 2015)

Indofred said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...









 Try this

List of Islamic Terror Attacks in America


First in 1972 well before the US was involved in the M.E.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 17, 2015)

Indofred said:


> This always gets me. There were no terrorist attacks on America until America attacked a bunch of countries.
> Then America blames the people it attacked.
> 
> Stupidity.






 Using islamonazi sources again for your information


----------



## Indofred (Jun 17, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Using islamonazi sources again for your information



When silly comments are all you're able to manage, you'd look a lot less like a pathetic moron if you didn't bother posting.

Terrorist attacks and related incidents in the United States


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 17, 2015)

Indofred said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Using islamonazi sources again for your information
> ...







 What silly comments as you have proven on another thread that you are just a RACIST JEW HATER


----------



## montelatici (Jun 17, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Never.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 17, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...







 I count over 20 today alone, and many more since Sunday.   WHY DO YOU LIE


----------



## montelatici (Jun 17, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



You don't have a clue what you are counting.  Why don't you stick to the subject of the thread rather than conversing with me. You are turning into a stalker.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 17, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...







 You are the stalker by your own admission when you showed you were DATA MINING from other boards.

 Why don't you as you have been pulled 10 times today for doing that


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 17, 2015)

Brutality in Gaza: MIDEAST Israeli Soldiers Condemn War on Gaza Global Issues


----------



## Hossfly (Jun 17, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Brutality in Gaza: MIDEAST Israeli Soldiers Condemn War on Gaza Global Issues


Six year old propaganda.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 18, 2015)

Hossfly said:


> Six year old propaganda.


Why do you feel the soldiers' testimony is "propaganda"?


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 18, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Six year old propaganda.
> ...






Why do you Jew haters always ask the same questions time and time again when you already know the answer


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 18, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Why do you Jew haters always ask the same questions time and time again when you already know the answer


Phoenall is a Gentile-hater.


----------



## Hossfly (Jun 18, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Why do you Jew haters always ask the same questions time and time again when you already know the answer
> ...


Phoenall is a Gentile, Ralph.


----------



## montelatici (Jun 18, 2015)

Hossfly said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



With the hate he has for the Christian bible, it is doubtful.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 19, 2015)

The propaganda never ends..............Israel bad.............America please ditch them so we can kill them eventually please..............That is all this is in the never ending lies from these posters......................and it changes nothing except the retards in America who are starting to believe their BS...........

Caliphates have been happening for a long time...............and it has always been BELIEVE IN ISLAM OR DIE....................I CHOOSE DEATH given those options bitches.................................Problem is on the modern battlefield your threats are meaningless to us as your capabilities for a conventional War have about as much chance of winning as the bugs hitting my windshield driving down the road.................

Which is why your side must use insurgency and booby traps to fight...................either way you can take your culture and barbarism and shove it.


----------



## Challenger (Jun 19, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Why do you Jew haters always ask the same questions time and time again when you already know the answer
> ...


Phoney is a troll and a genuine Nazi wannabee. A combination that has plenty of hatred for most of humanity.


----------



## Challenger (Jun 19, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> The propaganda never ends..............Israel bad.............America please ditch them so we can kill them eventually please..............That is all this is in the never ending lies from these posters......................and it changes nothing except the retards in America who are starting to believe their BS...........
> 
> Caliphates have been happening for a long time...............and it has always been BELIEVE IN ISLAM OR DIE....................I CHOOSE DEATH given those options bitches.................................Problem is on the modern battlefield your threats are meaningless to us as your capabilities for a conventional War have about as much chance of winning as the bugs hitting my windshield driving down the road.................
> 
> Which is why your side must use insurgency and booby traps to fight...................either way you can take your culture and barbarism and shove it.



The propaganda never ends..............Islam bad.............America please kill them so we can ditch them eventually please..............That is all this is in the never ending lies from these posters......................and it changes nothing except the retards in America who believe their BS...........

Caliphates have been happening for a long time...............and it has NEVER been BELIEVE IN ISLAM OR DIE....................that's been a Christian thing since Constantine. 

Its because the Palestinian resistance movement has not got access to modern conventional weapons it must  use insurgency and booby traps to fight...................They fight because they believe you can take your Zionist culture and barbarism and shove it.

There...fixed it for you. Much more accurate now.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 19, 2015)

Challenger said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > The propaganda never ends..............Israel bad.............America please ditch them so we can kill them eventually please..............That is all this is in the never ending lies from these posters......................and it changes nothing except the retards in America who are starting to believe their BS...........
> ...


LOL

 You ignore current events much..............are old ones like the Armenian genocide...................................

hmmmm....................spare me the BS.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 19, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> That is all this is in the never ending lies from these posters


What lies? Be specific.



> Caliphates have been happening for a long time


So dumb.  What "Caliphate" threatens the U.S.? Does Iran, which is on the other side of the world and ranked 23rd in military power? I'm not saying you should admire Islam, I'm saying:

1) The U.S. is wasting its strength in these endless conflicts in the Mideast.  I don't think those impoverished children thousands of miles away who Obama keeps killing are a big threat to the U.S.
2) The Israel lobby pushes the U.S. into wars for Israel. American bombs only produce more terrorists and hatred for American ideals.

Two kinds of people support Israeli war-mongers: brutal Israelis and very stupid Americans.  Which are you?


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 19, 2015)

Hossfly said:


> Phoenall is a Gentile,


How do you know?


----------



## Challenger (Jun 19, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



...and you have evidence that the Armenian genocide was a failed attempt to make Armenians convert to Islam?


----------



## Hossfly (Jun 19, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall is a Gentile,
> ...


Same way I know you are a terrorist supporter.And because he says so.


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 19, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird said:
> ...



Phoenall is Protestant.  He hates the Catholic Bible.  BTW, the Catholic Bible has the Zionist Book of Maccabees in there, which isn't even in the Jewish Bible.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 19, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Why do you Jew haters always ask the same questions time and time again when you already know the answer
> ...








 I am a gentile, and your reply shows that you are a moron


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 19, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird said:
> ...







 No just the Catholic version that was used by the Nazi's. I saw first hand what the Catholics think about non Catholics and how much they hate them.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 19, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...








 No just you neo Marxists and islamonazis, and this is justified by your action over the 14 years you where in power,


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 19, 2015)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Phoenall is Protestant.


If Phoenall is Protestant he is very stupid.  He is subservient to Israeli war-mongers even though Israel discriminates against Christians!

Christians Discriminated Against by Israel

MK Ben Ari rips up New Testament - Israel Jewish Scene Ynetnews


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 20, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall is Protestant.
> ...







 No I see where the real problems are and they are with the majority of muslims and extremists of other religions. The war mongers are muslims and their hangers on like yourself who demand the Jews be given stiff penalties and even killed  because they are doing what the rest of the world is doing and defending against islamonazi terrorism.
 Your brainwashing at the hands of islamonazis and neo Marxists is complete as shown by your use of the same old videos that have been condemned and shown to be the only ones you have. Unlike the many thousand of such videos new every day of muslims doing the same


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 20, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> The war mongers are muslims and their hangers on like yourself who demand the Jews be given stiff penalties and even killed


I don't want to kill anyone.  I hope for peace in the Mideast. If the U.S. stopped showering the Israelis with money and weapons Israel would be less of an arrogant bully. Israel would have to compromise.



> Your brainwashing at the hands of islamonazis and neo Marxists is complete


I'm not a Muslim and I couldn't be more anti-Marx and anti-Communist.



> as shown by your use of the same old videos that have been condemned and shown to be the only ones you have.


Show just a little intellectual integrity and try to refute any of the facts I've presented.  Be specific if you can.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 20, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > The war mongers are muslims and their hangers on like yourself who demand the Jews be given stiff penalties and even killed
> ...










 The US showers the muslims with even more money to buy weapons with so they can kill Americans and Jewish children. If the US cut all aid to the muslims then they would be forced to negotiate.

 Yet you spout islamonazi and neo Marxist propaganda

 All done many times in the past if you bother to look


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 20, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> The US showers the muslims with even more money to buy weapons with so they can kill Americans and Jewish children.


Please show evidence Muslims use American aid to buy weapons that are used to kill Americans and Jewish children.

You know the Palestinians have only the feeblest weapons.  Palestinians produce a small fraction of the casualties produced by Israel.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 20, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > The US showers the muslims with even more money to buy weapons with so they can kill Americans and Jewish children.
> ...





http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/ar...on-dollar-giveaway-to-the-muslim-brotherhood/


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 20, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/ar...on-dollar-giveaway-to-the-muslim-brotherhood/


You failed to prove your point. The article doesn't mention American or Israeli casualties caused by weapons paid for with American aid.

And Israel wants us to support the Syrian rebels with millions of taxpayer dollars.  Israel wants us to destabilize another of their enemies.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 20, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> You failed to prove your point. The article doesn't mention American or Israeli casualties caused by weapons paid for with American aid.
> 
> And Israel wants us to support the Syrian rebels with millions of taxpayer dollars.  Israel wants us to destabilize another of their enemies.


*Phoeny's* a 15 year old troll who thinks lying is a virtue.


----------



## pbel (Jun 20, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/ar...on-dollar-giveaway-to-the-muslim-brotherhood/
> ...



*It really is up to patriotic Americans to keep us from being Israel's lackey via the enormous money thrown at American elections using AIPAC money...

We need Campaign Finance Reform to give back control to the people!

If we keep being controlled like a puppet in America expect to be paying a price for a foreign power like Israel with domestic laws that allow big money to take our lives through their wars in the ME and Terrorism at home!*


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 21, 2015)

Billo_Really said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > You failed to prove your point. The article doesn't mention American or Israeli casualties caused by weapons paid for with American aid.
> ...








 Which you have never proven because you are the 15 year old JEW HATING TROLL


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 21, 2015)

pbel said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...







 The arab oil princes wont allow any reform like that as they will lose their hold on US politics


----------



## Challenger (Jun 22, 2015)

Billo_Really said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > You failed to prove your point. The article doesn't mention American or Israeli casualties caused by weapons paid for with American aid.
> ...


Nah, he's just a Neo-Nazi troll bigot with an unreasoning hatred of all things to to with Islam. Generally not worth the bother.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 22, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> The arab oil princes wont allow any reform like that as they will lose their hold on US politics


Maybe in the fantasy world inside your head but not in reality.


----------



## montelatici (Jun 22, 2015)

Billo_Really said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > You failed to prove your point. The article doesn't mention American or Israeli casualties caused by weapons paid for with American aid.
> ...



I put him on ignore about a week ago. Try it you'll like it!  It's great not have to read the lying crap the troll writes.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 22, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird said:
> ...








 BULLSHIT   you don't have the guts to do that, which is why you respond to my posts


----------



## Art__Allm (Jun 22, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Can you refute any of the statements I made in the OP?



Zionist supremacists believe that the truth can be "hateful".
If they hear the truth, they call it "hate speech".

That phenomenon is called "projection", they project their own hate for truth on the truth-tellers.


----------



## montelatici (Jun 22, 2015)

Art__Allm said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > Can you refute any of the statements I made in the OP?
> ...



I've been saying that for quite a long time.  Absolutely on target.


----------



## CMike (Jun 22, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird said:
> ...


You are an Arab Terrorist Firster


----------



## CMike (Jun 22, 2015)

The US gives billions of dollars to Egypt and other ME arab countries. 

They are not democracies and they almost never support the US in the UN. Why?


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 22, 2015)

CMike said:


> The US gives billions of dollars to Egypt and other ME arab countries.
> 
> They are not democracies and they almost never support the US in the UN. Why?


We give money to Egypt because Egypt agreed to reduce support for the Palestinians.

Again taxpayer $$$$$ being used to help out Israel.


----------



## CMike (Jun 22, 2015)

I would be more than happy for us not to give money to Egypt. They are rarely on our side.

We also give money not only to the palestinians but even to the Hamas terrorist government in Gaza.


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 22, 2015)

CMike,  et al,

Actually this thought, from "CMIike," is the basis for some people _(outside the Departments of Defense and State)_ to believe that the time has come for the US to rethink its foreign policies and diplomacy strategies that result in the military aid; and to a lesser extent non-military aid.



CMike said:


> I would be more than happy for us not to give money to Egypt. They are rarely on our side.
> 
> We also give money not only to the Palestinians but even to the Hamas terrorist government in Gaza.


*(COMMENT)*

Yes, this common belief does send mixed signals.

v/r
R


----------



## pbel (Jun 22, 2015)

Art__Allm said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > Can you refute any of the statements I made in the OP?
> ...


Sayit and Phoney expound this projection well...Its as if a Mass Psychosis afflicts many religious and right wing Israelis and ZioNuts...

Their hate sustains them.


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 22, 2015)

Thunderbird,  et al,

OK, it is true that Israel a big recipient of Aid from the US _(so what)_.

Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign assistance since World War II. From 1976-2004, Israel was the largest annual recipient of U.S. foreign assistance, having been supplanted by Iraq. Since 1985, the United States has provided nearly $3 billion in grants annually to Israel. 

Almost all U.S. bilateral aid to Israel is in the form of military assistance. In the past, Israel also had received significant economic assistance. Strong congressional support for Israel has resulted in Israel’s receiving benefits not available to other countries. For example, Israel can use some U.S. military assistance both for research and development in the United States and for military purchases from Israeli manufacturers.  _*SOURCE: *_ CRS Report RL33476​
Since 1948, the aid given to Israel evolved from helping preserve the original intent of a Jewish Nation Home, to much more.  In recent decades, probably the 1970's onward, the purpose of the aid has further a strong bilateral arrangement which reflects are shared values in government and culture; not to forget the great concern that both countries hold in the matter of strategic goals in the Middle East _(concern over Iran, Syria, Islamic extremism)_.



Thunderbird said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > No I'm not but the OP is another "Hate Israel Because" story and I don't buy that crap.
> ...





Thunderbird said:


> American taxpayers are forced to pay billions of dollars to Israel.  America has suffered through oil embargoes because of Israel.  America has fought wars for Israel.  And what has Israel done for the U.S.?  In gratitude the Israelis have conducted damaging spy operations against the U.S. and sold advanced weapons to our most dangerous adversaries.
> 
> American interests are not served by propping up apartheid Israel. Our politicians are bribed to betray our country and put Israel first.  American subservience to Israel creates hatred for America throughout the Muslim world, terrorism, instability, and aversion to American ideals and reform.


*(COMMENT)*

There have been at times, when the two counties have experienced some political and diplomatic differences discord.  But of the many security and defense agreements the US has entered into since the end of WWII, only the Five-Eyes (the US + Canada, UK, Australia, New Zealand) has proven as durable, successful and reliable as the one between Israel and the US. 

Congressional Research Report 10 JUNE 2015 US Aid to Israel
Though aid to Israel has detractors as well as supporters, overall U.S. public support for Israel remains strong. According to a February 2015 Gallup poll that measured Americans’ sympathies toward the disputants in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, 62% said their sympathies lie with the Israelis and 16% said their sympathies lie with the Palestinians.  According to a February 2015 Pew Research Center poll, “48% of respondents say that the level of U.S. support for Israel is about right; 29% say the U.S. is not supportive enough of Israel, while 18% say it is too supportive.” Neither of these surveys explicitly examined public opinion regarding U.S. aid to Israel. 
*SOURCE:* CRS Report RL33222 & CRS Report RL33476, Israel: Background and U.S. Relations ​
Over the last 7+ decades, each of the successor Presidents (and Administrations), and Congressional Lawmakers have "considered Israel to be a reliable partner in the region, and U.S. aid packages for Israel have reflected this sentiment."  

Israel is not an "Apartheid" country.  It doesn't even come close to the definition by the International Criminal Court.  It is merely a anti-Israeli Humanitarian claim to put forward an inflammatory language.   Who betrayed "America" and put Israel first."  Again, this is inflammatory language designed to incite a hostile image of Israel in the minds unfamiliar with the Jihadist and Fedayeen activity in the Region and the International Threat they have posed since the 1972 Munich Olympic Games _(Palestinian attackers—Afif, Nazzal, Chic Thaa, Hamid and Jamal—killed during the Fürstenfeldbruck gun battle were delivered to Libya, where they received heroes' funerals and were buried with full military honors)_.  _{Rule 2  Article 51(2) of Additional Protocol I prohibits Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited.} _ 

Let's put this in perspective before we get all excited.  Yes, annually we will give Israel about $3B.  The *Program cost* for the F-22 Raptor is $66.7 billion.  It is much better to insure that Israel has a Qualitative Military Advantage in equipment and technology, then to give the advantage in numbers by the Arab Countries still hostile; unable to make peace.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## pbel (Jun 22, 2015)

RoccoR said:


> Thunderbird,  et al,
> 
> OK, it is true that Israel a big recipient of Aid from the US _(so what)_.
> 
> ...


AIPAC controls our government through a cabalistic campaign donations against American Interests...


----------



## Hossfly (Jun 22, 2015)

pbel said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird,  et al,
> ...


Hogwash. AIPAC doesn't control anything. Now, take ZOG......


----------



## CMike (Jun 22, 2015)

Says a lot

Why America needs Israel - Opinion - Jerusalem Post


----------



## CMike (Jun 22, 2015)

pbel said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird,  et al,
> ...


It's the arab governments that buy off American politicians with billions of dollars.


----------



## pbel (Jun 22, 2015)

CMike said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


Link?


----------



## Hossfly (Jun 22, 2015)

pbel said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> > pbel said:
> ...


----------



## CMike (Jun 22, 2015)

pbel said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> > pbel said:
> ...


Your wish is my command.

The Arab Lobby in America and Influence over the U.S. - The Daily Beast

_But why is the Arab lobby, and most particularly the Saudi lobby, also powerful? Saudi Arabia has virtually no support among Americans. Indeed, it is widely reviled for its export of terrorists such as Osama bin Laden, its manipulation of oil prices, its anti-Christian and anti-Semitic policies, its total deprivation of any semblance of freedom of speech or dissent, and its primitive forms of punishment that include stoning and amputation. Yet, as Bard demonstrates, the Saudi lobby has beaten the pro-Israel lobby over and over again in head-to-head conflicts, such as the sale of sophisticated weapons to a regime that doesn't even have the technical skills to use them, and the conflict over whether to move the United States' embassy to Jerusalem. Even now, Saudi Arabia is lobbying to obtain a multibillion-dollar arms deal, and it is likely to succeed over the objections of Israel.



How then does a lobby with no popular support manage to exert influence in a democratic country? The secret is very simple. The Arab lobby in general and the Saudis in particular make little effort to influence popularly elected public officials, particularly legislators. Again, listen to Bard:

"The Saudis have taken a different tact from the Israeli lobby, focusing a top-down rather than bottom-up approach to lobbying. As hired gun, J. Crawford Cook, wrote in laying out his proposed strategy for the kingdom, 'Saudi Arabia has a need to influence the few that influence the many, rather than the need to influence the many to whom the few must respond.'"

The primary means by which the Saudis exercise this influence is money. They spend enormous amounts of lucre to buy (or rent) former state department officials, diplomats, White House aides, and legislative leaders who become their elite lobbying corps. Far more insidiously, the Saudis let it be known that if current government officials want to be hired following their retirement from government service, they had better hew to the Saudi line while they are serving in our government. The former Saudi ambassador to the United States, Prince Bandar, who was so close to the President George H.W. Bush that he referred to himself as "Bandar Bush," acknowledged the relationship between how a government official behaves while in office and how well he will be rewarded when he leaves office. "If the reputation then builds that the Saudis take care of friends when they leave office, you'd be surprised how much better friends you have when they are just coming into office."

Bard concludes from this well known quid pro quo that: "given the potential of these post-retirement opportunities, it would not be surprising if officials adopted positions while in government to make themselves marketable to the Arab lobby."

The methodology employed by the Arab lobby is thus totally inconsistent with democratic governance, because it does not reflect the will of the people but rather the corruption of the elite, while the Israeli lobby seems to operate within the parameters of democratic processes. Yet so much has been written about the allegedly corrosive nature of the Israeli lobby, while the powerful Arab lobby has widely escaped scrutiny and criticism. This important book thus contributes to the open marketplace of ideas by illuminating the dark side of the massive and largely undemocratic Arab lobbying efforts to influence American policy with regard to the Middle East.
But why is the Arab lobby, and most particularly the Saudi lobby, also powerful? Saudi Arabia has virtually no support among Americans. Indeed, it is widely reviled for its export of terrorists such as Osama bin Laden, its manipulation of oil prices, its anti-Christian and anti-Semitic policies, its total deprivation of any semblance of freedom of speech or dissent, and its primitive forms of punishment that include stoning and amputation. Yet, as Bard demonstrates, the Saudi lobby has beaten the pro-Israel lobby over and over again in head-to-head conflicts, such as the sale of sophisticated weapons to a regime that doesn't even have the technical skills to use them, and the conflict over whether to move the United States' embassy to Jerusalem. Even now, Saudi Arabia is lobbying to obtain a multibillion-dollar arms deal, and it is likely to succeed over the objections of Israel._


----------



## montelatici (Jun 22, 2015)

RoccoR said:


> Thunderbird,  et al,
> 
> OK, it is true that Israel a big recipient of Aid from the US _(so what)_.
> 
> ...



Rocco,

1. Can you tell us how Israel is not an Apartheid state.  Remember some non-whites (a minority) could vote and had parliamentary representation in Apartheid South Africa.  The rest were citizens of Bantustans, completely controlled by South Africa and could not vote and were not represented in the parliament.

2. Can you tell us how it helps America to have the billion or more Muslims hate us because of our one-sided support of Israel?


----------



## pbel (Jun 22, 2015)

CMike said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > CMike said:
> ...


A commentary from a Zionist mouthpiece? Link a Wikipedia article showing the amount of money spent by lobbyists and their affiliates...

I COMMAND you!!!


----------



## pbel (Jun 22, 2015)

CMike said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > CMike said:
> ...


ALAN DIRTSHOWITZ, very good, OJ Simpsons Liar, I mean lawyer...Nice pick!


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 23, 2015)

pbel said:


> Art__Allm said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird said:
> ...







 While you defend islamonazi terrorism and murder because you you are no better than the Palestinian scum


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 23, 2015)

pbel said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird,  et al,
> ...








 Yet the islam lobby is spending 10 times what AIPAC is spending on buying politicians in the US. Why do you think that Pakistan can afford a space programme while US vets are homeless, because they gat massive amounts of US aid. Who  pays the most into the UN coffers that goes to fund terrorism and violence in gaza.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 23, 2015)

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird,  et al,
> ...








 every citizen of Israel who is illegible to vote can. If they don't have Israeli citizenship then they cant vote. What would you say if 60 million arab muslims where given the right to vote for an American president because someone claimed that the US was apartheid.

 Whether or not the US supported Israel the muslims would still hate them because of their religious teachings and views. Its like asking why the Japs hated the US in the 1940's


----------



## pbel (Jun 23, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


Show us the link to the Islam lobby liar#1!


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 23, 2015)

pbel said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > pbel said:
> ...








Arab lobby in the United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

According to Mitchell Bard in an article for the Jewish Virtual Library, Isaiah L. Kenen, the founder of American Zionist Committee for Public Affairs or "AZCPA" (which became American Israel Public Affairs Committee or "AIPAC"), wrote of the Arab lobby's roots in the 1950s "petro-diplomatic complex" that comprised the "oil industry, missionaries, and diplomats." Bard states that in 1951 King Saud of Saudi Arabia asked U.S. diplomats to finance a pro-Arab lobby to counter AZCPA.[4] Bard in his book _The Arab Lobby: The Invisible Alliance That Undermines America's Interests in the Middle East_, states that the approach has not changed since the days of King Saud;[5] the basic message, according to Bard, is that the Saudis and the Gulf States have the oil and will supply it to America and its allies on the condition that America keeps the Arab ruling families in power.[6] Bard further states that the subsidiary clause is that the Arab oil states will also purchase arms ($100 billion worth over the last 50 years) to keep themselves in power and able to produce oil.[7]

Bard also alleges "blackmail" . He claims that from time to time the United States criticized the oil states for denying human rights to their own citizens, sponsoring militants who attack Israel, spreading extremist forms of Islam around the world, and supporting terrorism in many countries, but this criticism in rapidly reigned in by threatening to cut off the oil supply.[7]


Many of the players in the Arab lobby are paid directly by Arab governments, the New York Times describes them as an "elite band of former members of Congress, former diplomats and power brokers who have helped Middle Eastern nations navigate diplomatic waters here on delicate issues like arms deals, terrorism, oil and trade restrictions." Powerful lobbyists working on behalf of the Arab lobby include Bob Livingston, Tony Podesta, and Toby Moffett. Arab governments have paid "tens of millions of dollars" to "top" lobbying firms that work to influence the American government.[10] This includes the Saudi Arabia lobby, Egypt lobby and the Libya lobby.

In the wake of 9/11, Saudi Arabia hired the lobbying firms Patton Boggs and Qorvis, paying $14 million a year.[



*So you see money talks, but OIL money talks louder*


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 23, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...


----------



## pbel (Jun 23, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > pbel said:
> ...


You're a fucking idiot  lumping different Arab lobbies together some who are at war with each other Scum Bag ZioNazi nut!

aipac - Yahoo Search Results Yahoo Search Results
The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), a private Jewish American group that claims to be “America’s pro-Israel lobby,” is considered by The New York Times to be, “the most important organization affecting America’s relationship with Israel.” In 1997, Fortune magazine called AIPAC the second most powerful lobby in America. Since that time AIPAC’s star has risen steadily, and is now widely regarded as the most powerful lobby in America.


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 23, 2015)

pbel said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



I know I said that I would retire from this shark tank, but your behavior is so outrageous that I had to speak up, pbel.  You asked Phoenell for a link that there are also Arab lobbies in Washington, and when he does as he's asked, you go crazy.  Yes, there are also Arab lobbies, and that can be pointed out, just like you point out AIPAC in every one of your posts.  You can debate something civilly, and look at different points of view.


----------



## pbel (Jun 23, 2015)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...


Re-read the post knucklehead...I asked for a link to his claim for saying the ISLAMIC Lobby was 10 times more funded or powerful than AIPAC.


----------



## montelatici (Jun 23, 2015)

Furthermore, the various political lobbies of the Arab countries register as Foreign Agents, AIPAC does not.  As such they have far more strict reporting requirements in terms of who they give money to etc.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 23, 2015)

pbel said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...








 The ISLAMOMORON once again uses an oxymoron when he is shown to be uninformed as to the truth. You asked for a link thinking that none would be available and the first one of the page shows just how much control Saudi alone has over US politics.    The latest list of lobby influence puts Saudi in the front followed by Pakistan and the NRG with all of Israel's lobby groups coming in at 10th place


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 23, 2015)

pbel said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > pbel said:
> ...







 NO DUMBO you asked for a link to muslim lobby groups and that is what you got. You did not stipulate any criteria, so when the link is given you go all mental and ape shit


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 23, 2015)

CMike said:


> The Arab Lobby in America and Influence over the U.S. - The Daily Beast


Oh Alan Dershowitz, there's a neutral source we can take seriously. lol Dershowitz loves Israel almost as much as he hates the USA. Dershowitz is so busy raping little girls, I'm surprised he found time to write lying justifications for Israeli atrocities.

Note to conservatives: Dershowitz favors Obama

_



			the Saudi lobby has beaten the pro-Israel lobby over and over again in head-to-head conflicts, such as the sale of sophisticated weapons
		
Click to expand...

_The American people gain when we sell weapons to the Saudis. The Israelis get billions in weapons for free courtesy of the U.S. taxpayer.  See the difference?
_



			"The Saudis have taken a different tact from the Israeli lobby, focusing a top-down rather than bottom-up approach to lobbying.
		
Click to expand...

_The Israeli lobby never buys politicians?!
_



			The methodology employed by the Arab lobby is thus totally inconsistent with democratic governance, because it does not reflect the will of the people but rather the corruption of the elite, while the Israeli lobby seems to operate within the parameters of democratic processes.
		
Click to expand...

_Fortune Magazine named AIPAC the second-most-powerful group in Washington!  They spend millions subverting the democratic process and bribing politicians.  Fortunately for America AIPAC's influence may be waning.  They are having trouble pushing the U.S. into fighting another war for Israel - this time with Iran.

Poll Right-Wing Pro-Israel Lobbying Group AIPAC Losing Influence - The ITT List

Quote: Forty percent of respondents expressing an opinion felt that AIPAC's influence decreases the chance for a resolution in the Israel/Palestinian conflict, only 27 percent felt that AIPAC increases the chance of a resolution. Seventy-four percent of the respondents who expressed an opinion said they had seen members of Congress vote contrary to the U.S. national interest at least once as a result of AIPAC's influence.

And don't forget the media.  Pro-Israel media bosses lie to the American people nonstop, covering up Israeli brutality.


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 23, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> > The Arab Lobby in America and Influence over the U.S. - The Daily Beast
> ...



I agree with you that America should not fight Iran for Israel's sake.  On the flip side, America should not prevent Israel from fighting Iran on her own.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 23, 2015)

RoccoR said:


> In recent decades, probably the 1970's onward, the purpose of the aid has further a strong bilateral arrangement which reflects are shared values in government and culture;


I deeply resent anyone saying the U.S. and Israel share values.  Israel is an apartheid state that discriminates against Palestinians and murders the innocent.



> countries hold in the matter of strategic goals in the Middle East


Israel is a liability.



> overall U.S. public support for Israel remains strong.


If true only because of the lies of the media bosses.



> the International Threat they have posed since the 1972 Munich Olympic Games


The Muslim countries do not possess much in the way of military power.  Israel is barely threatened, the U.S. not at all.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 23, 2015)

*Discrimination Against Palestinian Citizens of Israel IMEU*

*INSTITUTIONALIZED DISCRIMINATION*

There are more than 50 laws that discriminate against Palestinian citizens of Israel. directly or indirectly, based solely on their ethnicity, rendering them second or third class citizens in their own homeland.
93% of the land in Israel is owned either by the state or by quasi-governmental agencies, such as the Jewish National Fund, that discriminate against non-Jews. Palestinian citizens of Israel face significant legal obstacles in gaining access to this land for agriculture, residence, or commercial development.
More than seventy Palestinian villages and communities in Israel, some of which pre-date the establishment of the state, are unrecognized by the government, receive no services, and are not even listed on official maps. Many other towns with a majority Palestinian population lack basic services and receive significantly less government funding than do majority-Jewish towns.
Since Israel's founding in 1948, more than 600 Jewish municipalities have been established, while not a single new Arab town or community has been recognized by the state.
Israeli government resources are disproportionately directed to Jews and not to Arabs, one factor in causing the Palestinians of Israel to suffer the lowest living standards in Israeli society by all socio-economic indicators.
Government funding for Arab schools is far below that of Jewish schools. According to data published in 2004, the government provides three times as much funding to Jewish students than it does to Arab students.
According to the 2009 US State Department International Religious Freedom Report, “Many of the national and municipal policies in Jerusalem were designed to limit or diminish the non-Jewish population of Jerusalem.”
In the Spring of 2011, Jerusalem city councilman Yakir Segev stated: “We will not allow residents of the eastern [occupied Palestinian] part of the city to build as much as they need... At the end of the day, however politically incorrect it may be to say, we will also look at the demographic situation in Jerusalem to make sure that in another 20 years we don't wake up in an Arab city.”
The Nationality and Entry into Israel Law prevents Palestinians from the occupied territories who are married to Palestinian citizens of Israel from gaining residency or citizenship status. The law forces thousands of Palestinian citizens of Israel to either leave Israel or live apart from their families.
In October 2010, the Knesset approved a bill allowing smaller Israeli towns to reject residents who do not suit "the community's fundamental outlook", based on sex, religion, and socioeconomic status. Critics slammed the move as an attempt to allow Jewish towns to keep Arabs and other non-Jews out.
The so-called "Nakba Bill" bans state funding for groups that commemorate the tragedy that befell Palestinians during Israel's creation in 1948, when approx. 750,000 Palestinian Arabs were ethnically cleansed to make way for a Jewish majority state.
The British Mandate-era Land (Acquisition for Public Purposes) Ordinance law allows the Finance Minster to confiscate land for "public purposes.” The state has used this law extensively, in conjunction with other laws such as the Land Acquisition Law and the Absentees' Property Law, to confiscate Palestinian land in Israel. A new amendment, which was adopted in February 2010, confirms state ownership of land confiscated under this law, even where it has not been used to serve the original confiscation purpose. The amendment was designed to prevent Arab citizens from submitting lawsuits to reclaim confiscated land.
Over the entirety of its 63-year existence, there has been a period of only about one year (1966-1967) that Israel did not rule over large numbers of Palestinians to whom it granted no political rights.
Former Israeli prime ministers Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert have both warned that a continuation of the occupation will lead to Israel becoming an "apartheid" state. Barak stated: "As long as in this territory west of the Jordan river there is only one political entity called Israel it is going to be either non-Jewish, or non-democratic… If this bloc of millions of Palestinians cannot vote, that will be an apartheid state."
Archbishop Desmond Tutu and Nelson Mandela, heroes of the struggle against apartheid in South Africa, have both compared Israel's treatment of Palestinians to apartheid.
Today, there is a virtual caste system within the territories that Israel controls between the Jordan River and Mediterranean Sea, with Israeli Jews at the top and Muslim and Christian Palestinians in the occupied territories at the bottom. In between are Palestinians with Israeli citizenship and Palestinian residents of occupied East Jerusalem.
*
INCREASING INTOLERANCE FOR DISSENT & DIVERSITY IN ISRAEL*

In September 2011 a survey found that a third of Israeli Jews don’t consider Arab citizens to be real Israelis.
According to a February 2011 survey, 52% of Israeli Jews would be willing to limit press freedoms to protect the state's image, while 55% would accept limits on the right to oppose the government's "defense policy.”
Also in September 2011, Dov Lior, the chief rabbi of settlements in Hebron and Kiryat Arba and head of the West Bank setter rabbis' council, told a conference that Arabs are “wolves,” “savages,” and “evil camel riders.”
A poll done by the Israel Democracy Institute and released in January 2011 found that nearly half of Israeli Jews don't want to live next door to an Arab.
In January 2011 the Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper reported that civics teachers around the country were complaining of rampant, virulent anti-Arab racism amongst their Jewish students. One teacher said, "When we have a discussion in class about equal rights, the class immediately gets out of control… The students attack us, the teachers, for being leftist and anti-Semitic, and say that all the Arab citizens who want to destroy Israel should be transferred." Another said: "We're not talking about a minority, or children from families that have extreme political views, but about normal children who are afflicted with ignorance… The political discourse in recent years has given them the legitimacy to be prejudiced."
In November 2010 the chief rabbi of the town of Safed, Shmuel Eliyahu, issued a ruling forbidding Jews from renting property to Arabs. Eliyahu had previouslyadvocated hanging the children of terrorists.
In December 2010, dozens of municipal chief rabbis on the government payroll signed a letter supporting Eliyahu and his decree prohibiting Jews from renting property to non-Jews. One of the signatories, Rabbi Yosef Scheinen, head of the Ashdod Yeshiva (religious school), stated, "Racism originated in the Torah… The land of Israel is designated for the people of Israel."
In December 2010, the wives of 30 prominent rabbis signed an open letter calling on Jewish women not to date or work with Arabs. The letter stated: "For your sake, for the sake of future generations, and so you don't undergo horrible suffering, we turn to you with a request, a plea, a prayer. Don't date non-Jews, don't work at places that non-Jews frequent, and don't do national service with non-Jews.”
According to a September 2010 poll, half of Israeli Jewish students don't want Arabs in their classrooms, while an earlier survey found about the same number oppose equal rights for Arabs.
In September 2010, the spiritual leader of the Shas party (which sits in PM Benjamin Netanyahu’s coalition government), Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, declared that non-Jews were created to “serve” Jews, stating that: "Goyim [non-Jews] were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world - only to serve the People of Israel... Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat. That is why gentiles were created.”
In August 2010, on the eve of peace talks in Washington, Yosef delivered a sermondescribing Palestinians as "evil, bitter enemies" and calling on god to make them "perish from this world" by striking them with a plague.
In 2001, Yosef, delivered a sermon in which he stated: "It is forbidden to be merciful to [Arabs]. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable…The Lord shall return the Arabs' deeds on their own heads, waste their seed and exterminate them, devastate them and vanish them from this world.”
In August 2010, Rabbi Yitzhak Shapira, head of a state-funded religious school in the West Bank settlement of Yitzhar, published a book that condoned the murder of non-Jewish children on the grounds that they may grow up to pose a threat to the state, writing that non-Jews are "uncompassionate by nature" and attacks against them "curb their evil inclination.” Several other prominent rabbis subsequently endorsed the book.
In July, 2009, Israel's Housing Minister, Ariel Atlas, warned against the "spread" of Israel's Arab population and said that Arabs and Jews shouldn't live together, stating: "if we go on like we have until now, we will lose the Galilee. Populations that should not mix are spreading there. I don't think that it is appropriate for [Jews and Arabs] to live together."
In the aftermath of Operation Cast Lead, Israel's devastating three-week military assault against Gaza that killed more than 1300 Palestinians in the winter of 2008-9, the Israeli daily Haaretz reported that Israeli army units had been printing t-shirts depicting disturbing, violent images such as dead Palestinian babies, Palestinian mothers weeping on their children's graves, a gun aimed at a child, bombed-out mosques, and a pregnant Palestinian woman with a target superimposed on her belly and the caption, “1 shot, 2 kills”. Another showed a Palestinian baby, growing into a boy and then an armed adult, with the inscription, “No matter how it begins, we'll put an end to it."


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 23, 2015)




----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 23, 2015)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> I agree with you that America should not fight Iran for Israel's sake.


I don't see how any non-moron American could disagree.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 23, 2015)

Americans are deprived of the truth about Israel.


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 23, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> *Discrimination Against Palestinian Citizens of Israel IMEU*
> 
> *INSTITUTIONALIZED DISCRIMINATION*
> 
> ...



Let's ask Daniyel and rylah, who actually live in Israel, if this is true.  In the past, these posters have complained that Arabs in Israel get alot of affirmative action rights and privileges that they don't get.  I know that Arab doctors and nurses treated my grandmother in Haifa, and I saw alot of Arab students at Hebrew University.
It's important, though, to differentiate between Arabs living in Israel proper, and those living in the Palestinian territories.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 23, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Arab lobby in the United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


You didn't quote the rest of the article because you want to cover up the truth.

Check this out:

Bard, author of 2010 book _The Arab Lobby_ and a former editor of the "Near East Report", a weekly newsletter published by the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, writes that "*from the beginning, the Arab lobby has faced not only a* *disadvantage in electoral politics but also in organization."* Academics Ali A. Mazrui and Nabeel A. Khoury have also written about *the virtual non-existence of an Arab lobby in America.*


----------



## CMike (Jun 23, 2015)

The difference is that the Pro-Israel lobbyists have grassroots support, the arab lobbyists don't have grassroots support. t

They just throw their billions of dollars around and buy off politicians.


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 23, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> > The Arab Lobby in America and Influence over the U.S. - The Daily Beast
> ...







 Shows how much you know then doesn't it as the loans Israel gets have to be spent in America to keep defence workers in a job. Now you can tell those peoples families why you are throwing them out of their homes and destroying their families when the loans to Israel stop


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 23, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > In recent decades, probably the 1970's onward, the purpose of the aid has further a strong bilateral arrangement which reflects are shared values in government and culture;
> ...







 Then produce the link that says this officially.

 It only takes on plane and the seat of power in the US could be destroyed


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 23, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> *Discrimination Against Palestinian Citizens of Israel IMEU*
> 
> *INSTITUTIONALIZED DISCRIMINATION*
> 
> ...







 ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 23, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Arab lobby in the United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> ...






 The link is there for everyone to read, so what did I hide


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 23, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


>








 ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 23, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Americans are deprived of the truth about Israel.









 ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA


----------



## pbel (Jun 23, 2015)

t





Phoenall said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > ForeverYoung436 said:
> ...




*You are a liar...I said "Show us the link to the Islam lobby liar#1!"

,"...I asked for a link to this claim for saying the ISLAMIC Lobby was 10 times more funded or powerful than AIPAC...Is there a Islam Lobby, singular Like AIPAC? 

Show us that link!*


you responded with "Arab lobby in the United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 23, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Shows how much you know then doesn't it as the loans Israel gets have to be spent in America to keep defence workers in a job. Now you can tell those peoples families why you are throwing them out of their homes and destroying their families when the loans to Israel stop


Yes but of course the tax payers are still paying for weapons for Israel. Why not let tax payers keep their money?  Or buy weapons for America if you are worried about job losses.  Israel is a fairly rich country.  Let them pay their own bills.


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 23, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA


ZIONAZI PROPAGANDA


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 24, 2015)

pbel said:


> t
> 
> 
> 
> ...







 Read your own words again DUMBO


 You say   *I said "Show us the link to the Islam lobby liar#1!"


 Which I gave the link to as arab and islam are the same thing.*


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 24, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Shows how much you know then doesn't it as the loans Israel gets have to be spent in America to keep defence workers in a job. Now you can tell those peoples families why you are throwing them out of their homes and destroying their families when the loans to Israel stop
> ...






 I'm not worried about American Job losses as they might open the peoples eyes to how much they need the rest of the world. The tax payers are paying twice for the weapons going to muslim nations and ultimately hamas terrorists. They pay for the oil that keeps the American dream alive, then they pay for the arab's to sell them the oil so the arabs can have F16's at cost. Then the pay to train the arabs to fly the F16's


----------



## Thunderbird (Jun 24, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> They pay for the oil that keeps the American dream alive,


Do you like being robbed by crooked financiers?

The Great American Bubble Machine Rolling Stone

Bernard Madoff s Ponzi Scheme - HowStuffWorks

Larry Summers Tim Geithner and Wall Street s ownership of government - Salon.com


----------



## pbel (Jun 24, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > t
> ...



They are not the same thing nut-cake, its your natural ability at Double-Talk, your deceit at lumping different countries even Arab who are at war with each other is what you do when you reside in an Insane Asylum.


Phoenall said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > t
> ...



They are not the same thing Jack-Ass, far from it! You have helped turned a land war into a Religious with your insane Double-talk!


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 25, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > They pay for the oil that keeps the American dream alive,
> ...







 No more than I like being robbed by muslims


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 25, 2015)

pbel said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > pbel said:
> ...






 So now arabs aren't muslims......................so islam never existed


----------



## theliq (Jun 25, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...


Some Arabs are NOT Muslims you Cretin


----------



## theliq (Jun 25, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > They pay for the oil that keeps the American dream alive,
> ...


Thunder,as you may well know,the US Federal Reserve Bank is not owned by the US Government or the American people but by 9 Jewish Banks....it is them who run monetary policy in the US................Americans are just  deluded into thinking that their government have any say in how the money is spent.....there is something terribly wrong with this situation..and the criminal exploitation of these Jews....Americans should demand that statutes should be changed.

GET UP,STAND UP,STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 25, 2015)

theliq said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > pbel said:
> ...






 Not for long the way things are going, just look at the Christians in Palestine down to just 10% of their original numbers


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 25, 2015)

theliq said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...







 LINK


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 25, 2015)

theliq said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...


----------



## theliq (Jun 28, 2015)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Thunderbird said:
> ...


You don't need MY LINK it has been common knowledge since 1927


----------



## Phoenall (Jun 29, 2015)

Then you will be able to produce the evidence ?


----------

