# Opening Statement



## Wry Catcher

*On The Duties and Responsibilities of Citizenship. *

Q.  What is a duty?

A.  Something that one is expected or required to do by moral or legal obligation.

Q.  What is a Responsibility?  

A.  The state or fact of being responsible, answerable, or accountable for something within one's power, control, or management.

As citizens of the United States, "_We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--*That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed*_" 

"_We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America_."

On 1/7/1918 in Selective Draft Law Cases - 245 U.S. 366 (1918), MR. CHIEF JUSTICE WHITE delivered the opinion of the court, in part:

"_Compelled military service is neither repugnant to a free government nor in conflict with the constitutional guaranties of individual liberty. Indeed, *it may not be doubted that the very conception of a just government and its duty to the citizen includes the duty of the citizen to render military service in case of need, and the right of the government to compel it*._

"_The power of Congress to compel military service as in the Selective Draft Law, clearly sustained by the original Constitution, is even more manifest under the Fourteenth Amendment, which, as frequently has been pointed out, broadened the national scope of the government by causing citizenship of the United States to be paramount and dominant, instead of being subordinate and derivative, thus operating generally upon the powers conferred by the Constitution indeed gives Congress the power to draft men into the military if the need arises._

"_The grant to Congress of power to raise and support armies, considered in conjunction with the  grants of the powers to declare war, to make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces, and to make laws necessary and proper for executing granted powers (Constitution, Art. I, § 8), includes the power to compel military service, exercised by the Selective Draft Law of May 18, 1917, c. 15, 40 Stat. 76. This conclusion, obvious upon the face of the Constitution, is confirmed by an historical examination of the subject_."

Selective Draft Law Cases - 245 U.S. 366 (1918) :: Justia US Supreme Court Center

As citizens of the United States we have a duty to support and defend the Constitution, our nation and its people; to obey the laws and regulations promulgated by our Representatives and to petition the government if we feel such laws are unreasonable. Furthermore and within our ability, we have a responsibility to live our lives within the vision stated in the Preamble to our Constitution, to act responsibly - morally and legally - in support of the vision for our country expressed in the Preamble.  

Those who accept the Rights of Citizenship have tacitly sworn to uphold the duties and responsibilities of a citizen and to hold no allegiance to any ideology which suppresses, or seeks to overthrow the principles upon which our nation was founded and our Society has long endured.  Thus, those who hold to the ideology of Objectivism, be they ordinary citizens or a member of Congress, commit the crime of Sedition, if not in fact, surely in their hearts, in the words they write daily on this message board, and words spoken by some members of The Congress.

For those who see a new Civil War or the breakup of our Union a good thing, I suggest they read the following words spoken to the Senate three decades before the Civil War:

Daniel Webster


----------



## TNHarley

Thanks for doing this Wry!

These are the 2 biggest responsibilities, IMO, that we have as citizens; Preserving the Constitution and keeping the Gov't in check, so to speak. Here is why

Preserving the Constitution : 

First, you need to try to understand the mindset of our Framers. They put their lives, honor and wealth on the line to create a document that protects the people from the dangers of political power
A public servant has the power by law to take away our freedoms through punishment or seize our wealth and property by taxation. They can pass legislation that can take over an entire industry, or cripple a small business. When the "power hungry" want more power or enrich themselves by routing public money through insider trading, donors etc, by these violations, they become our(domestic) enemy. If they undermine these principles within our COTUS, they betray our trust and have violated their oath.
The military recruits take an oath to obey "lawful" orders from their leaders. It is our duty to understand the difference lawful and unlawful. It becomes "our" responsibility to enforce that oath by lawful disobedience.
If the POTUS were to get caught whispering to a rep from Russia (ahemmmm) that he will disarm the US and put us a disadvantage in return for political gain, it can be argued he violated his oath.
If the Supreme Court rules a law is unconstitutional, it can be argued the law maker  violated his oath. Anytime we elect or appoint someone to a position of power, they use that power to "dilute" the COTUS, they become the enemy  their oath referred to.
For example: Hitlers legislation abrogated their Constitution by passing "Enabling Laws", which gave him dictorial(is that a word?) powers. Hitlers Germany was the dreaded vision when drafting our COTUS. Any political office holder, public servant, military, law enforcement or Judge who swears to that oath, is honor bound to obey it. If violated they reach the equivalent of Benedict Arnold.Benedict Arnold - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia   Oath keepers are Constitutionally and honor bound to abide by that oath. Think about it!

Keeping the gov't in check:The Framers first assumption was that all authority for the Gov't comes from the People. Not from a monarch or a governing class, but from the citizens who make up the public. Government Is our creation, not our parent!
The Framers second assumption was that the citizens would undertake all the responsibility for the day-to-day. The local communities would manage their own affairs. Under this system, the roles of ALL gov't levels would be minimal. (couldn't we be soo lucky  )

I just realized I should have reversed the olrder of the options, but I didn't, and my hands hurt too much to copy/paste move them.


----------



## TNHarley

Let me add something else 

Nearly all of us are quick to claim benefits, but are slow to fulfill obligations. We have become a nation OBSESSED with , but seem to have forgotten our responsibilities! Many of people seem to easily forget that all great things must be paid by someone, and eventually come to an end. They are either paid by hard work, abstinence, deprivation oir just flat out sacrifice. The growth of our welfare state, over the last... 50 or so years has put an imaginary image in their head that someone in Washington should provide for ALL their needs. Why should we continue to make efforts to fulfill what USED to be considered "personal responsibility"

Cant wait to hear your response for this lol


----------



## Wry Catcher

The Responsibilty of an American Citizen includes, but is not limited to:

Support and defend the Constitution. 

Your post suggests that We The People can be subjected to harm by a pubic servent who has the power to tax individuals and businesses ("The power to tax is the power to destroy").  Informed voters have the power to remove their elected representative who abuses the power to tax.  A power restricted to the H. or Reps. by Aritcle I of the COTUS. 

Stay informed of the issues affecting your community. 
IBID

Participate in the democratic process. 
IBID 

Respect and obey federal, state, and local laws. 

Respect the rights, beliefs, and opinions of others. 

Participate in your local community. 

Pay income and other taxes honestly, and on time, to federal, state, and local authorities. 

Serve on a jury when called upon.

Defend the country if the need should arise.

Do you agree these are responsibilites incumbent on all citizens?


----------



## Wry Catcher

TNHarley said:


> Let me add something else
> 
> Nearly all of us are quick to claim benefits, but are slow to fulfill obligations. We have become a nation OBSESSED with , but seem to have forgotten our responsibilities! Many of people seem to easily forget that all great things must be paid by someone, and eventually come to an end. They are either paid by hard work, abstinence, deprivation oir just flat out sacrifice. The growth of our welfare state, over the last... 50 or so years has put an imaginary image in their head that someone in Washington should provide for ALL their needs. Why should we continue to make efforts to fulfill what USED to be considered "personal responsibility"
> 
> Cant wait to hear your response for this lol



I'm not sure what you mean by benefits.  SS is a safety net which provides a basic source of income to individuals who worked during their lifetime.  They must have worked for 40 quarters to qualify. Both the worker and his employer contribute in the form of payroll taxes.

Welfare was replace by TANF (Temporary Aid for Needy Families) as part of welfare reform during the Clinton Administration.  "Welfare Queens" as President Reagan so inelegantly called them are no longer spending a lifetime having babies and living on the dole.

Many workers, the working poor, do not earn benefits from their employer.  They must save for retirement, pay for health care and take care of everyday needs - an impossible task for many (some even work two or more PT jobs as President Bush pointed out in a ridiculous moment in his State of the Union Address one year.)

Medicare, Medicaid and Obamacare are filling a need for many Americans who cannot afford the insurance as it has grown by double digits annually for decades.


----------



## TNHarley

I said they have the POWER. Which they do public servant - definition of public servant by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.. They can do that. I mean, just look at people with back taxes, owe someone money has refused courts order etc  they can reposes what they want. My point was, when they do it against their oath. Read and think

Dang no wonder you only needed 5 minutes.. Anyways
Do you have any opinions on your post?


----------



## TNHarley

Wry Catcher said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let me add something else
> 
> Nearly all of us are quick to claim benefits, but are slow to fulfill obligations. We have become a nation OBSESSED with , but seem to have forgotten our responsibilities! Many of people seem to easily forget that all great things must be paid by someone, and eventually come to an end. They are either paid by hard work, abstinence, deprivation oir just flat out sacrifice. The growth of our welfare state, over the last... 50 or so years has put an imaginary image in their head that someone in Washington should provide for ALL their needs. Why should we continue to make efforts to fulfill what USED to be considered "personal responsibility"
> 
> Cant wait to hear your response for this lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by benefits.  SS is a safety net which provides a basic source of income to individuals who worked during their lifetime.  They must have worked for 40 quarters to qualify.
> 
> Welfare was replace by TANF (Temporary Aid for Needy Families) as part of welfare reform during the Clinton Administration.  "Welfare Queens" as President Reagan so inelegantly called them are no longer spending a lifetime having babies and living on the dole.
> 
> Many workers, the working poor, do not earn benefits from their employer.  They must save for retirement, pay for health care and take care of everyday needs - an impossible task for many (some even work two or more PT jobs as President Bush pointed out in a ridiculous moment in his State of the Union Address one year.)
> 
> Medicare, Medicaid and Obamacare are filling a need for many Americans who cannot that  afford the insurance as it has grown by double digits annually for decades.
Click to expand...

It is funny that use Medicare and obamacare in the same sentence. Considering it is robbing from the poor and giving to the rich. 


http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/usgs_line.php?title=Welfare Spending Chart&units=b&size=m&year=2007_2017&sname=US&bar=1&stack=1&col=c&legend=&source=a_a_a_a_e_g_g_g_g_g_g&spending0=422.29_497.37_628.13_786.72_741.01_697.47_646.77_613.76_606.93_620.19_637.68


"Welfare queens" are no more? Welfare is going up. Notice the decline is PROJECTED as it has not happened yet.

for fun :etc. by Oliver Del Signore » Blog Archive » An example of what generations of welfare has done for America

TANF and Federal Welfare | Downsizing the Federal Government



from the link The choice of welfare over work is often a rational decision based on economic incentives. Empirical studies confirm that welfare is a disincentive for work. For example, an analysis of interstate variation in labor force participation by economists Richard Vedder, Lowell Gallaway, and Robert Lawson found that such participation declined as welfare benefits increased.33 Similarly, Robert Moffitt of Brown University found that the work effort of welfare recipients was reduced by as much as 30 percent.34

Looks like Welfare is just becoming a better decision than a career with this guy : House votes to block Obama's change to welfare requirement - The Hill's Floor Action

The House voted Thursday to block the Obama administration's decision to let states waive the current work requirement for welfare recipients.

Read more: House votes to block Obama's change to welfare requirement - The Hill's Floor Action 
Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook


----------



## Wry Catcher

TNHarley said:


> I said they have the POWER. Which they do public servant - definition of public servant by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.. They can do that. I mean, just look at people with back taxes, owe someone money has refused courts order etc  they can reposes what they want. My point was, when they do it against their oath. Read and think
> 
> Dang no wonder you only needed 5 minutes.. Anyways
> Do you have any opinions on your post?



Public servants (I assume you mean civil servants) are able to repossess property and bank accounts via due process.  A civil servant cannot do so only on their own whim.

My opinion is quite simple, no man is an Island unto himself.  We all need each other and the Randian Ideology so often expressed on this message board reeks of absurdity.  (Yes, I mixed a metaphor)

The topic as I understood it is do we as citizens have a duty to the nation (and the nation is its people - Romney had it wrong) and Responsibilities to act in a certain manner.

I posted a response and examples in my opening comment.


----------



## Wry Catcher

TNHarley said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let me add something else
> 
> Nearly all of us are quick to claim benefits, but are slow to fulfill obligations. We have become a nation OBSESSED with , but seem to have forgotten our responsibilities! Many of people seem to easily forget that all great things must be paid by someone, and eventually come to an end. They are either paid by hard work, abstinence, deprivation oir just flat out sacrifice. The growth of our welfare state, over the last... 50 or so years has put an imaginary image in their head that someone in Washington should provide for ALL their needs. Why should we continue to make efforts to fulfill what USED to be considered "personal responsibility"
> 
> Cant wait to hear your response for this lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by benefits.  SS is a safety net which provides a basic source of income to individuals who worked during their lifetime.  They must have worked for 40 quarters to qualify.
> 
> Welfare was replace by TANF (Temporary Aid for Needy Families) as part of welfare reform during the Clinton Administration.  "Welfare Queens" as President Reagan so inelegantly called them are no longer spending a lifetime having babies and living on the dole.
> 
> Many workers, the working poor, do not earn benefits from their employer.  They must save for retirement, pay for health care and take care of everyday needs - an impossible task for many (some even work two or more PT jobs as President Bush pointed out in a ridiculous moment in his State of the Union Address one year.)
> 
> Medicare, Medicaid and Obamacare are filling a need for many Americans who cannot that  afford the insurance as it has grown by double digits annually for decades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is funny that use Medicare and obamacare in the same sentence. Considering it is robbing from the poor and giving to the rich.
> 
> 
> http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/usgs_line.php?title=Welfare Spending Chart&units=b&size=m&year=2007_2017&sname=US&bar=1&stack=1&col=c&legend=&source=a_a_a_a_e_g_g_g_g_g_g&spending0=422.29_497.37_628.13_786.72_741.01_697.47_646.77_613.76_606.93_620.19_637.68
> 
> 
> "Welfare queens" are no more? Welfare is going up. Notice the decline is PROJECTED as it has not happened yet.
> 
> for fun :etc. by Oliver Del Signore » Blog Archive » An example of what generations of welfare has done for America
> 
> TANF and Federal Welfare | Downsizing the Federal Government
> 
> 
> 
> from the link The choice of welfare over work is often a rational decision based on economic incentives. Empirical studies confirm that welfare is a disincentive for work. For example, an analysis of interstate variation in labor force participation by economists Richard Vedder, Lowell Gallaway, and Robert Lawson found that such participation declined as welfare benefits increased.33 Similarly, Robert Moffitt of Brown University found that the work effort of welfare recipients was reduced by as much as 30 percent.34
> 
> Looks like Welfare is just becoming a better decision than a career with this guy : House votes to block Obama's change to welfare requirement - The Hill's Floor Action
> 
> The House voted Thursday to block the Obama administration's decision to let states waive the current work requirement for welfare recipients.
> 
> Read more: House votes to block Obama's change to welfare requirement - The Hill's Floor Action
> Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook
Click to expand...


I won't speak to Boehner/Cantor or the H. of Reps. in terms other than disgust.  The issue they voted down is something the Governors of some states want - including Republican Governors.


----------



## TNHarley

Wry Catcher said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said they have the POWER. Which they do public servant - definition of public servant by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.. They can do that. I mean, just look at people with back taxes, owe someone money has refused courts order etc  they can reposes what they want. My point was, when they do it against their oath. Read and think
> 
> Dang no wonder you only needed 5 minutes.. Anyways
> Do you have any opinions on your post?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Public servants (I assume you mean civil servants) are able to repossess property and bank accounts via due process.  A civil servant cannot do so only on their own whim.
> 
> My opinion is quite simple, no man is an Island unto himself.  We all need each other and the Randian Ideology so often expressed on this message board reeks of absurdity.  (Yes, I mixed a metaphor)
> 
> The topic as I understood it is do we as citizens have a duty to the nation (and the nation is its people - Romney had it wrong) and Responsibilities to act in a certain manner.
> 
> I posted a response and examples in my opening comment.
Click to expand...


A public servant is someone that works for the people. Meaning the gov't
Yes, we all need each other. We all need each other by contribution. I need this guy in Texas to work at the Toyota plant to make my truck I plan on buying. You need me to keep your cities and governments with road signage and traffic equipment. I NEED contributing members to society. And I do believe in a certain manner is insinuated, considering a responsibility of citizens is not to break up the law. What is YOUR opinion on what I just said. From a liberal point of view


----------



## Wry Catcher

I've posted on what  the duty and responsibility we have as citizens to the nation and our community.  That is the topic you proposed.  If you wish to debate health care or welfare and willing to accommodate you.


----------



## TNHarley

Wry Catcher said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by benefits.  SS is a safety net which provides a basic source of income to individuals who worked during their lifetime.  They must have worked for 40 quarters to qualify.
> 
> Welfare was replace by TANF (Temporary Aid for Needy Families) as part of welfare reform during the Clinton Administration.  "Welfare Queens" as President Reagan so inelegantly called them are no longer spending a lifetime having babies and living on the dole.
> 
> Many workers, the working poor, do not earn benefits from their employer.  They must save for retirement, pay for health care and take care of everyday needs - an impossible task for many (some even work two or more PT jobs as President Bush pointed out in a ridiculous moment in his State of the Union Address one year.)
> 
> Medicare, Medicaid and Obamacare are filling a need for many Americans who cannot that  afford the insurance as it has grown by double digits annually for decades.
> 
> 
> 
> It is funny that use Medicare and obamacare in the same sentence. Considering it is robbing from the poor and giving to the rich.
> 
> 
> http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/usgs_line.php?title=Welfare Spending Chart&units=b&size=m&year=2007_2017&sname=US&bar=1&stack=1&col=c&legend=&source=a_a_a_a_e_g_g_g_g_g_g&spending0=422.29_497.37_628.13_786.72_741.01_697.47_646.77_613.76_606.93_620.19_637.68
> 
> 
> "Welfare queens" are no more? Welfare is going up. Notice the decline is PROJECTED as it has not happened yet.
> 
> for fun :etc. by Oliver Del Signore » Blog Archive » An example of what generations of welfare has done for America
> 
> TANF and Federal Welfare | Downsizing the Federal Government
> 
> 
> 
> from the link The choice of welfare over work is often a rational decision based on economic incentives. Empirical studies confirm that welfare is a disincentive for work. For example, an analysis of interstate variation in labor force participation by economists Richard Vedder, Lowell Gallaway, and Robert Lawson found that such participation declined as welfare benefits increased.33 Similarly, Robert Moffitt of Brown University found that the work effort of welfare recipients was reduced by as much as 30 percent.34
> 
> Looks like Welfare is just becoming a better decision than a career with this guy : House votes to block Obama's change to welfare requirement - The Hill's Floor Action
> 
> The House voted Thursday to block the Obama administration's decision to let states waive the current work requirement for welfare recipients.
> 
> Read more: House votes to block Obama's change to welfare requirement - The Hill's Floor Action
> Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I won't speak to Boehner/Cantor or the H. of Reps. in terms other than disgust.  The issue they voted down is something the Governors of some states want - including Republican Governors.
Click to expand...


I guess because the sane ones know that welfare is a problem. And growing.


----------



## Wry Catcher

TNHarley said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said they have the POWER. Which they do public servant - definition of public servant by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.. They can do that. I mean, just look at people with back taxes, owe someone money has refused courts order etc  they can reposes what they want. My point was, when they do it against their oath. Read and think
> 
> Dang no wonder you only needed 5 minutes.. Anyways
> Do you have any opinions on your post?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Public servants (I assume you mean civil servants) are able to repossess property and bank accounts via due process.  A civil servant cannot do so only on their own whim.
> 
> My opinion is quite simple, no man is an Island unto himself.  We all need each other and the Randian Ideology so often expressed on this message board reeks of absurdity.  (Yes, I mixed a metaphor)
> 
> The topic as I understood it is do we as citizens have a duty to the nation (and the nation is its people - Romney had it wrong) and Responsibilities to act in a certain manner.
> 
> I posted a response and examples in my opening comment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A public servant is someone that works for the people. Meaning the gov't
> Yes, we all need each other. We all need each other by contribution. I need this guy in Texas to work at the Toyota plant to make my truck I plan on buying. You need me to keep your cities and governments with road signage and traffic equipment. I NEED contributing members to society. And I do believe in a certain manner is insinuated, considering a responsibility of citizens is not to break up the law. What is YOUR opinion on what I just said. From a liberal point of view
Click to expand...


I think I covered it already, from *my *point of view.


----------



## TNHarley

Wry Catcher said:


> I've posted on what  the duty and responsibility we have as citizens to the nation and our community.  That is the topic you proposed.  If you wish to debate health care or welfare and willing to accommodate you.



It is hard to debate copy/paste Wry. We might as well expand because we are not getting anywhere SMH. I was looking for liberal opinions so that a debate could actually happen


----------



## Wry Catcher

TNHarley said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've posted on what  the duty and responsibility we have as citizens to the nation and our community.  That is the topic you proposed.  If you wish to debate health care or welfare and willing to accommodate you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is hard to debate copy/paste Wry. We might as well expand because we are not getting anywhere SMH. I was looking for liberal opinions so that a debate could actually happen
Click to expand...


I don't understand your copy/paste comment?  The only part of this thread  wherein I pasted comments was in the opening remarks.  Since then I have tried to follow your lead and answer you as clearly as possible.

I provided some background hours before we were to start, allowing you time for a rebuttal.  I believe we as citizens have duties along with rights and we have responsibilities too - both of which I defined in the first post.

I don't have a liberal opinion on our duties and responsibilities, I have an opinion which I hope I clearly expressed.

I don't believe we owe reparations to the descendants of former slaves, that's my opinion, it's not liberal or conservative, its simply my own.  Does that help you?


----------



## TNHarley

Wry Catcher said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> Public servants (I assume you mean civil servants) are able to repossess property and bank accounts via due process.  A civil servant cannot do so only on their own whim.
> 
> My opinion is quite simple, no man is an Island unto himself.  We all need each other and the Randian Ideology so often expressed on this message board reeks of absurdity.  (Yes, I mixed a metaphor)
> 
> The topic as I understood it is do we as citizens have a duty to the nation (and the nation is its people - Romney had it wrong) and Responsibilities to act in a certain manner.
> 
> I posted a response and examples in my opening comment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A public servant is someone that works for the people. Meaning the gov't
> Yes, we all need each other. We all need each other by contribution. I need this guy in Texas to work at the Toyota plant to make my truck I plan on buying. You need me to keep your cities and governments with road signage and traffic equipment. I NEED contributing members to society. And I do believe in a certain manner is insinuated, considering a responsibility of citizens is not to break up the law. What is YOUR opinion on what I just said. From a liberal point of view
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think I covered it already, from *my *point of view.
Click to expand...


I guess people debate different in other parts of the country. When I did it in high school, no one read out of a book.
Now, can you please rebuttal what I said about contributors? I know I am one mean conservative and do not care about anyone, but why should I be happy some "welfare Queen" has 10 kids and gets paid for being a whore? From my money? Considering liberals want to "pussy up" everyone and make them dependent? And ALL IS OK


----------



## TNHarley

Wry Catcher said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've posted on what  the duty and responsibility we have as citizens to the nation and our community.  That is the topic you proposed.  If you wish to debate health care or welfare and willing to accommodate you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is hard to debate copy/paste Wry. We might as well expand because we are not getting anywhere SMH. I was looking for liberal opinions so that a debate could actually happen
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't understand your copy/paste comment?  The only part of this thread  wherein I pasted comments was in the opening remarks.  Since then I have tried to follow your lead and answer you as clearly as possible.
> 
> I provided some background hours before we were to start, allowing you time for a rebuttal.  I believe we as citizens have duties along with rights and we have responsibilities too - both of which I defined in the first post.
> 
> I don't have a liberal opinion on our duties and responsibilities, I have an opinion which I hope I clearly expressed.
> 
> I don't believe we owe reparations to the descendants of former slaves, that's my opinion, it's not liberal or conservative, its simply my own.  Does that help you?
Click to expand...


That list you wrote earlier about the different responsibilities, your second post? I read that earlier today when I was actually doing research. I agree with your opening post, originality and all. I also agree with the bolded. That was what 3 or 4 generations ago?


----------



## Wry Catcher

TNHarley said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> A public servant is someone that works for the people. Meaning the gov't
> Yes, we all need each other. We all need each other by contribution. I need this guy in Texas to work at the Toyota plant to make my truck I plan on buying. You need me to keep your cities and governments with road signage and traffic equipment. I NEED contributing members to society. And I do believe in a certain manner is insinuated, considering a responsibility of citizens is not to break up the law. What is YOUR opinion on what I just said. From a liberal point of view
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think I covered it already, from *my *point of view.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess people debate different in other parts of the country. When I did it in high school, no one read out of a book.
> Now, can you please rebuttal what I said about contributors? I know I am one mean conservative and do not care about anyone, but why should I be happy some "welfare Queen" has 10 kids and gets paid for being a whore? From my money? Considering liberals want to "pussy up" everyone and make them dependent? And ALL IS OK
Click to expand...


I'm not reading out of a book.  If I understood your comment on "contributors" (which I don't pretend I do) it has something to do with someone building a truck you want to buy.  By inference I suppose you are suggesting that "welfare queens" don't build trucks?

If my inference is correct, I must suggest that not all contributors are not also takers.  Let's consider the working poor, those who make the burgers and greet you as you enter Wal-Mart.  As PT workers they don't receive benefits, can't afford health care and likely rely on the county for food stamps and medical care.


----------



## Wry Catcher

TNHarley said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is hard to debate copy/paste Wry. We might as well expand because we are not getting anywhere SMH. I was looking for liberal opinions so that a debate could actually happen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand your copy/paste comment?  The only part of this thread  wherein I pasted comments was in the opening remarks.  Since then I have tried to follow your lead and answer you as clearly as possible.
> 
> I provided some background hours before we were to start, allowing you time for a rebuttal.  I believe we as citizens have duties along with rights and we have responsibilities too - both of which I defined in the first post.
> 
> I don't have a liberal opinion on our duties and responsibilities, I have an opinion which I hope I clearly expressed.
> 
> I don't believe we owe reparations to the descendants of former slaves, that's my opinion, it's not liberal or conservative, its simply my own.  Does that help you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That list you wrote earlier about the different responsibilities, your second post? I read that earlier today when I was actually doing research. I agree with your opening post, originality and all. I also agree with the bolded. That was what 3 or 4 generations ago?
Click to expand...


I'm not sure what was bolded/3 or 4 generations ago.  I looked back to post # 2 nothing in bold.  *Oh, I'm sorry, I misunderstood.  Thank you.*


----------



## Wry Catcher

Ten Minutes to Go!


----------



## Wry Catcher

Five minutes to go.


----------



## Wry Catcher

Time.

Thanks TN.


----------



## TNHarley

Wry Catcher said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think I covered it already, from *my *point of view.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess people debate different in other parts of the country. When I did it in high school, no one read out of a book.
> Now, can you please rebuttal what I said about contributors? I know I am one mean conservative and do not care about anyone, but why should I be happy some "welfare Queen" has 10 kids and gets paid for being a whore? From my money? Considering liberals want to "pussy up" everyone and make them dependent? And ALL IS OK
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not reading out of a book.  If I understood your comment on "contributors" (which I don't pretend I do) it has something to do with someone building a truck you want to buy.  By inference I suppose you are suggesting that "welfare queens" don't build trucks?
> 
> If my inference is correct, I must suggest that not all contributors are not also takers.  Let's consider the working poor, those who make the burgers and greet you as you enter Wal-Mart.  As PT workers they don't receive benefits, can't afford health care and likely rely on the county for food stamps and medical care.
Click to expand...


You are very obtuse Wry. Your entire rebuttal is some ridiculous interpretation of my frugal explanations of the point I was trying to make. This feels like no other day at USMB. 
The hour is up, and I see no going on about this "debate" anyways. So here is my conclusion that I had PREPARED
The greatest day in your life and mine is when we take total responsibility for our attitudes. That is the day we truly grow up. John C Maxwell

<insert summary of opinions here along with some facts if available>
If you take responsibility for yourself you will develop a hunger to accomplish your dreams Les Brown
Accept responsibility for your life. Know that it is you who will get you where you want to go, no one else. Les Brown

Than you Wry for accepting my debate offer. I hope it was enjoyed by you, as much as it was me. You were a worthy opponent.


----------



## TNHarley

TNHarley said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is hard to debate copy/paste Wry. We might as well expand because we are not getting anywhere SMH. I was looking for liberal opinions so that a debate could actually happen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand your copy/paste comment?  The only part of this thread  wherein I pasted comments was in the opening remarks.  Since then I have tried to follow your lead and answer you as clearly as possible.
> 
> I provided some background hours before we were to start, allowing you time for a rebuttal.  I believe we as citizens have duties along with rights and we have responsibilities too - both of which I defined in the first post.
> 
> I don't have a liberal opinion on our duties and responsibilities, I have an opinion which I hope I clearly expressed.
> 
> *I don't believe we owe reparations to the descendants of former slaves*, that's my opinion, it's not liberal or conservative, its simply my own.  Does that help you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That list you wrote earlier about the different responsibilities, your second post? I read that earlier today when I was actually doing research. I agree with your opening post, originality and all. I also agree with the bolded. That was what 3 or 4 generations ago?
Click to expand...


Didn't work


----------

