# How accurate was Full Metal Jacket's boot camp scene?



## elvis

I heard it said that it was pretty authentic.  what was and what wasn't accurate?


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## eots

well dude..supply the clip at least...geez....is it just me ...or is this clip...funny as hell..in some weird way...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUc62jD-G0o]YouTube - Full Metal Jacket Clip[/ame]


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## elvis

Sorry, I meant the entire first half of the movie.


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## AllieBaba

The inspiration for Full Metal Jacket was a novel called The Short-Timers by Viet Nam combat correspondent Gustav Hasford. He was a friend of my ex-husband, and had a circle of friends which included Kent Anderson, a vet of the 5th special forces group and author of "Sympathy for the Devil". According to Kent and my ex, the novel was very authentic and drew on Gustav's own experiences.

My understanding is that his time in Viet Nam affected him terribly, and he died ill and alone and essentially a recluse in 1993.


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## AllieBaba

Although, given my husband's inability to read people, the guy may have just been a mentally ill asshole.

But I think the depiction is authentic. I know plenty of Viet Nam vets who had no criticism of it. THe ones that could stand to watch it, that is.


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## Article 15

eots said:


> well dude..supply the clip at least...geez....is it just me ...or is this clip...*funny as hell..in some weird way*...
> 
> 
> YouTube - Full Metal Jacket Clip



The hardest part of BMT for me was not laughing my ass off at some of the shit the TI's would come up with while chewing out trainees.


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## manu1959

Article 15 said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> well dude..supply the clip at least...geez....is it just me ...or is this clip...*funny as hell..in some weird way*...
> 
> 
> YouTube - Full Metal Jacket Clip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The hardest part of BMT for me was not laughing my ass off at some of the shit the TI's would come up with while chewing out trainees.
Click to expand...


that is why my dad and grandfather told me that under no circumstances should i join....


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## Yurt

manu1959 said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> well dude..supply the clip at least...geez....is it just me ...or is this clip...*funny as hell..in some weird way*...
> 
> 
> YouTube - Full Metal Jacket Clip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The hardest part of BMT for me was not laughing my ass off at some of the shit the TI's would come up with while chewing out trainees.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> that is why my dad and grandfather told me that under no circumstances should i join....
Click to expand...


actually, knowing you as i do, GREAT advice


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## RetiredGySgt

I went through Boot camp after changes had occurred but It was still pretty close to what we had, the only thing being the Drill Instructors could not physically hit you. Still happened of course.  It was pretty real to me.


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## elvis

RetiredGySgt said:


> I went through Boot camp after changes had occurred but It was still pretty close to what we had, the only thing being the Drill Instructors could not physically hit you. Still happened of course.  It was pretty real to me.



when were you in bootcamp?


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## RetiredGySgt

elvis3577 said:


> retiredgysgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> i went through boot camp after changes had occurred but it was still pretty close to what we had, the only thing being the drill instructors could not physically hit you. Still happened of course.  It was pretty real to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> when were you in bootcamp?
Click to expand...


1979.


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## roomy

RetiredGySgt said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> retiredgysgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> i went through boot camp after changes had occurred but it was still pretty close to what we had, the only thing being the drill instructors could not physically hit you. Still happened of course.  It was pretty real to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> when were you in bootcamp?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1979.
Click to expand...


I thought you were a senile WWII vet?


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## Amanda

According to my bros it is pretty much dead on except they aren't supposed to hit you anymore. They said it's actually worse now because of the head games, they would rather have been hit. 

Doesn't change my mind, I'm still going Marines when I finally pull the trigger on this.


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## dilloduck

Amanda said:


> According to my bros it is pretty much dead on except they aren't supposed to hit you anymore. They said it's actually worse now because of the head games, they would rather have been hit.
> 
> Doesn't change my mind, I'm still going Marines when I finally pull the trigger on this.



and you'll be a great one !


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## Amanda

dilloduck said:


> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to my bros it is pretty much dead on except they aren't supposed to hit you anymore. They said it's actually worse now because of the head games, they would rather have been hit.
> 
> Doesn't change my mind, I'm still going Marines when I finally pull the trigger on this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and you'll be a great one !
Click to expand...


Fuckin A, DD.


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## Luissa

manu1959 said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> well dude..supply the clip at least...geez....is it just me ...or is this clip...*funny as hell..in some weird way*...
> 
> 
> YouTube - Full Metal Jacket Clip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The hardest part of BMT for me was not laughing my ass off at some of the shit the TI's would come up with while chewing out trainees.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> that is why my dad and grandfather told me that under no circumstances should i join....
Click to expand...

I was very close fo joining the navy my senior year and my softball coach who was ex military pretty much said the same thing and I didn't join. Even being a women I was highly recuited by all the branches of the military because of my sports background and being in good shape and not small.


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## krotchdog

The boot camp scene was dead on.

Three people dead while I went through boot camp, one on the pistol range shot his brains out, I did not see this.

Another died in the morning standing in front of his rack right after reville, he did not take in enough salt and died of dehdration.

Another drowned during swim qual, they said he died of a heart attack, I bet he did, if you could not swim the DI's pushed you under until you swam, no drowning, poor son of a bitch had a heart attack.

Had another guy slit his wrists and lived.

Another jumped off the 2nd floor, not far enough to die but he broke his legs.

I watched the DI hit people, not often and only at the end of boot camp when we had to little time left to report it. Nobody took a chance that late in the game, we got short and just wanted to make it.

People say they would rather be hit, right, we had the mind games and got hit, we suffered from sleep deprivation, lack of water, too much excercise, mind games, even less sleep, complete fatigue. I was a hollywood marine, I hear the guys at perris island got at alive by sand fleas.

The movie was dead on except there is just no way for an audience to truely relate.

I hated my drill instructor, Sgt Cambell, I remember his face like it was yesterday, his voice, what a prick.


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## Amanda

krotchdog said:


> The boot camp scene was dead on.
> 
> Three people dead while I went through boot camp, one on the pistol range shot his brains out, I did not see this.
> 
> Another died in the morning standing in front of his rack right after reville, he did not take in enough salt and died of dehdration.
> 
> Another drowned during swim qual, they said he died of a heart attack, I bet he did, if you could not swim the DI's pushed you under until you swam, no drowning, poor son of a bitch had a heart attack.
> 
> Had another guy slit his wrists and lived.
> 
> Another jumped off the 2nd floor, not far enough to die but he broke his legs.
> 
> I watched the DI hit people, not often and only at the end of boot camp when we had to little time left to report it. Nobody took a chance that late in the game, we got short and just wanted to make it.
> 
> People say they would rather be hit, right, we had the mind games and got hit, we suffered from sleep deprivation, lack of water, too much excercise, mind games, even less sleep, complete fatigue. I was a hollywood marine, I hear the guys at perris island got at alive by sand fleas.
> 
> The movie was dead on except there is just no way for an audience to truely relate.
> 
> I hated my drill instructor, Sgt Cambell, I remember his face like it was yesterday, his voice, what a prick.



I don't know what they do to girls... but knowing what my bros and dad have said I don't care. I will go and I WILL fuck them up. I can be an unstoppable force of nature when I bring it, and I will bring it. I never lose my site on the prize. They can NOT break me. 

A lot of people here probably think of me as a tender little flower because of how I talk about God and love... don't be deceived, I'm also the little girl that can drop a deer at 300 yards with a lite load, and skin it and turn it into dinner. And soooo much more. I'm pretty sure my destiny is with the Marines, like my father and his father before him. I think I need to join this long family tradition, and no matter what happens I will have made my father proud. And is there truly anything better 1 can do in their life? I don't think so.


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## RetiredGySgt

Amanda said:


> krotchdog said:
> 
> 
> 
> The boot camp scene was dead on.
> 
> Three people dead while I went through boot camp, one on the pistol range shot his brains out, I did not see this.
> 
> Another died in the morning standing in front of his rack right after reville, he did not take in enough salt and died of dehdration.
> 
> Another drowned during swim qual, they said he died of a heart attack, I bet he did, if you could not swim the DI's pushed you under until you swam, no drowning, poor son of a bitch had a heart attack.
> 
> Had another guy slit his wrists and lived.
> 
> Another jumped off the 2nd floor, not far enough to die but he broke his legs.
> 
> I watched the DI hit people, not often and only at the end of boot camp when we had to little time left to report it. Nobody took a chance that late in the game, we got short and just wanted to make it.
> 
> People say they would rather be hit, right, we had the mind games and got hit, we suffered from sleep deprivation, lack of water, too much excercise, mind games, even less sleep, complete fatigue. I was a hollywood marine, I hear the guys at perris island got at alive by sand fleas.
> 
> The movie was dead on except there is just no way for an audience to truely relate.
> 
> I hated my drill instructor, Sgt Cambell, I remember his face like it was yesterday, his voice, what a prick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what they do to girls... but knowing what my bros and dad have said I don't care. I will go and I WILL fuck them up. I can be an unstoppable force of nature when I bring it, and I will bring it. I never lose my site on the prize. They can NOT break me.
> 
> A lot of people here probably think of me as a tender little flower because of how I talk about God and love... don't be deceived, I'm also the little girl that can drop a deer at 300 yards with a lite load, and skin it and turn it into dinner. And soooo much more. I'm pretty sure my destiny is with the Marines, like my father and his father before him. I think I need to join this long family tradition, and no matter what happens I will have made my father proud. And is there truly anything better 1 can do in their life? I don't think so.
Click to expand...


I would advice you not "bring it" while in boot camp. Quick way to end a career. And as for " bringing it" in the fleet? Better be careful who you " bring it" to. Rank wins just about every single time. You see dear, being right has NOTHING to do with following orders or not. There are two ways to do things in the Marine Corps... The Marine Corps way and NOT the Marine Corps way. Right and wrong are irrelevant.

And before you refuse an order cause it is illegal, better make sure it is clear as a bell and can not be intrepretted any other way.

Let me make it easy...

If you are ORDERED to shoot an unarmed prisoner, depending on the circumstances that MAY be an illegal order.

Illegal orders must be refused, however you better damn well be able to prove it was illegal. That is why if the military is ever ordered to fight US Citizens some will obey and some won't. I would suggest in such a case you not refuse and instead try to find out who supports your position and together join the other side. Cause in a Court you will likely lose.


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## editec

The first half of that movie was great.

The second half of that film was shyte.


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## RetiredGySgt

editec said:


> The first half of that movie was great.
> 
> The second half of that film was shyte.



That was because they were trying to make a stupid political message.

Tell ya what though at the end when he wouldn't shot the sniper? After she shot my guys? No problem shooting her.


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## Gunny

elvis3577 said:


> I heard it said that it was pretty authentic.  what was and what wasn't accurate?



A relative question.  For Vietnam-era boot camp?  It was probably pretty accurate minus Gunny Hartman pushing Private Pyle over the edge.  R Lee Ermey, who portrayed Gunny Hartman was a Marine Drill Instructor and he played the role to a "t".  He was exaclt how I remember my drill instructors, and as a drill instructor, we all played the same role.  

The constant, every-minute jammed with training and/or running from one type training to another is pretty accurate.  The training schedule in Marine boot camp is God's Law, and only an act of God will cause any deviation from it.  

The physical abuse as far as drill instructors putting their hands on privates was a bit much.  Gunny Hartman was like everything that could go wrong with a drill instructor and he played the wrong role.  The Senior Drill Instructor is NEVER the heavy.  The SDI is "daddy."  The junior drill instructor is usually the heavy.  

When you make the SDI the heavy instead of "daddy", it gives the recruits a sense of hopelessness as if they have nowhere to turn because the guy who is supposed to be handling their issues is the one tormenting them.  It's a morale killer.  

As an senior, Hartman had too much "hands on".  The senior is pat of the drill instructor team; yet, a little bit aloof from the other hats to create that separation recruits pick up on whether consciously or unconsciously.  In Full Metal jacket, the junior drill intructors had minimal presence.  

Where a difference I can't address exists is that Full Metal Jacket was a Vietnam-era scenario and recruits were drafted.  I was a drill instructor in the all volunteer Marine Corps.  Little short of death got you out of boot camp during the former; while, during the latter, one merely had to refuse to train and would be eventually administratively discharged.  That alone would completely change the mindset of the drill instructors.  

Oh, and while I won't say it never happens, a drill instructor that strikes a private has failed.  He has failed as a teacher and as a Marine.  He destroys the respect that recruit has for the uniform and the title "Marine" and definitely brings dishonor upon himself and the Corps.  Recruits are at the drill instructor's mercy completely.  Their is no excuse for abusing that power.

My two cents.


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## Gunny

krotchdog said:


> The boot camp scene was dead on.
> 
> Three people dead while I went through boot camp, one on the pistol range shot his brains out, I did not see this.
> 
> Another died in the morning standing in front of his rack right after reville, he did not take in enough salt and died of dehdration.
> 
> Another drowned during swim qual, they said he died of a heart attack, I bet he did, if you could not swim the DI's pushed you under until you swam, no drowning, poor son of a bitch had a heart attack.
> 
> Had another guy slit his wrists and lived.
> 
> Another jumped off the 2nd floor, not far enough to die but he broke his legs.
> 
> I watched the DI hit people, not often and only at the end of boot camp when we had to little time left to report it. Nobody took a chance that late in the game, we got short and just wanted to make it.
> 
> People say they would rather be hit, right, we had the mind games and got hit, we suffered from sleep deprivation, lack of water, too much excercise, mind games, even less sleep, complete fatigue. I was a hollywood marine, I hear the guys at perris island got at alive by sand fleas.
> 
> The movie was dead on except there is just no way for an audience to truely relate.
> 
> I hated my drill instructor, Sgt Cambell, I remember his face like it was yesterday, his voice, what a prick.



The game I absolutely hated the most was "make the rack."  

Get on line.  In your grubby little meatbeaters you will have, two blankets, two sheets, a pillowcase and one fartsack.  You have one minute to get those scuzzy-ass racks made tight and squared away.

Repeat until the drill instructor got bored.

I used to laugh at people that said they hate their drill instructors.  They were playing roles.  You were just another bald-headed Gomer to them.  You took personally what to them was impersonal as Hell.  

Those drill instructors had more pressure on them than at the time you could even comprehend.  I do not and never have condoned the abuse of power and/or violating the SOP, but there ARE two sides to the story.

That hat's got a wife and kids at home he never sees.  He has to be perfect at all times.  He has a schedule to keep that is near impossible.  He suffers the same sleep deprivation, fatigue you do, goes through the same training with you (and drill instructor school itself is a thousand times worse than boot camp because of all the things you have to memorize verbatim while making everything about you as a Marine perfect). 

What you don't realize, again at the time, is that they ARE human.  They are people too.  You don't see them when THEY break down.  Or commit suicide.  Or purposefully injure themselves to get off the street.  Or find out they aren't home so momma's getting busy with someone else.  

And while you're calling yourself a "Hollywood" Marine, I have been to both PI and San Diego.  I'll take sand fleas ANY day over Mount Mutherfucker and/or Old Smokey.


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## Gunny

RetiredGySgt said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> The first half of that movie was great.
> 
> The second half of that film was shyte.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was because they were trying to make a stupid political message.
> 
> Tell ya what though at the end when he wouldn't shot the sniper? After she shot my guys? No problem shooting her.
Click to expand...


Y'think?  Not so easy to pull that trigger while looking someone dead in the eyes.  Not saying you wouldn't.  It's just not as easy as you think, and you need to give some consideration to what you're willing to live with for the rest of your life.  

In the end, it's just you and God, and you better be able to justify it to both of you.


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## Luissa

Gunny said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I heard it said that it was pretty authentic.  what was and what wasn't accurate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A relative question.  For Vietnam-era boot camp?  It was probably pretty accurate minus Gunny Hartman pushing Private Pyle over the edge.  R Lee Ermey, who portrayed Gunny Hartman was a Marine Drill Instructor and he played the role to a "t".  He was exaclt how I remember my drill instructors, and as a drill instructor, we all played the same role.
> 
> The constant, every-minute jammed with training and/or running from one type training to another is pretty accurate.  The training schedule in Marine boot camp is God's Law, and only an act of God will cause any deviation from it.
> 
> The physical abuse as far as drill instructors putting their hands on privates was a bit much.  Gunny Hartman was like everything that could go wrong with a drill instructor and he played the wrong role.  The Senior Drill Instructor is NEVER the heavy.  The SDI is "daddy."  The junior drill instructor is usually the heavy.
> 
> When you make the SDI the heavy instead of "daddy", it gives the recruits a sense of hopelessness as if they have nowhere to turn because the guy who is supposed to be handling their issues is the one tormenting them.  It's a morale killer.
> 
> As an senior, Hartman had too much "hands on".  The senior is pat of the drill instructor team; yet, a little bit aloof from the other hats to create that separation recruits pick up on whether consciously or unconsciously.  In Full Metal jacket, the junior drill intructors had minimal presence.
> 
> Where a difference I can't address exists is that Full Metal Jacket was a Vietnam-era scenario and recruits were drafted.  I was a drill instructor in the all volunteer Marine Corps.  Little short of death got you out of boot camp during the former; while, during the latter, one merely had to refuse to train and would be eventually administratively discharged.  That alone would completely change the mindset of the drill instructors.
> 
> Oh, and while I won't say it never happens, a drill instructor that strikes a private has failed.  He has failed as a teacher and as a Marine.  He destroys the respect that recruit has for the uniform and the title "Marine" and definitely brings dishonor upon himself and the Corps.  Recruits are at the drill instructor's mercy completely.  Their is no excuse for abusing that power.
> 
> My two cents.
Click to expand...

The guy who played Gunny I seriously think has to be alittle crazy in real life, every role he plays he is alittle crazy. In Saving Silverman he is completly gone but quite hilarious!


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## Gunny

Luissa said:


> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I heard it said that it was pretty authentic.  what was and what wasn't accurate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A relative question.  For Vietnam-era boot camp?  It was probably pretty accurate minus Gunny Hartman pushing Private Pyle over the edge.  R Lee Ermey, who portrayed Gunny Hartman was a Marine Drill Instructor and he played the role to a "t".  He was exaclt how I remember my drill instructors, and as a drill instructor, we all played the same role.
> 
> The constant, every-minute jammed with training and/or running from one type training to another is pretty accurate.  The training schedule in Marine boot camp is God's Law, and only an act of God will cause any deviation from it.
> 
> The physical abuse as far as drill instructors putting their hands on privates was a bit much.  Gunny Hartman was like everything that could go wrong with a drill instructor and he played the wrong role.  The Senior Drill Instructor is NEVER the heavy.  The SDI is "daddy."  The junior drill instructor is usually the heavy.
> 
> When you make the SDI the heavy instead of "daddy", it gives the recruits a sense of hopelessness as if they have nowhere to turn because the guy who is supposed to be handling their issues is the one tormenting them.  It's a morale killer.
> 
> As an senior, Hartman had too much "hands on".  The senior is pat of the drill instructor team; yet, a little bit aloof from the other hats to create that separation recruits pick up on whether consciously or unconsciously.  In Full Metal jacket, the junior drill intructors had minimal presence.
> 
> Where a difference I can't address exists is that Full Metal Jacket was a Vietnam-era scenario and recruits were drafted.  I was a drill instructor in the all volunteer Marine Corps.  Little short of death got you out of boot camp during the former; while, during the latter, one merely had to refuse to train and would be eventually administratively discharged.  That alone would completely change the mindset of the drill instructors.
> 
> Oh, and while I won't say it never happens, a drill instructor that strikes a private has failed.  He has failed as a teacher and as a Marine.  He destroys the respect that recruit has for the uniform and the title "Marine" and definitely brings dishonor upon himself and the Corps.  Recruits are at the drill instructor's mercy completely.  Their is no excuse for abusing that power.
> 
> My two cents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The guy who played Gunny I seriously think has to be alittle crazy in real life, every role he plays he is alittle crazy. In Saving Silverman he is completly gone but quite hilarious!
Click to expand...


If you ever listen to an interview with him, he is quite sane.  He plays those roles because he entertains people.  He was interviewed for a History Channel show, The History of the US Marine Corps, or something like that, and he talks about being a drill instructor.


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## krotchdog

The Seargent did scare the hell out of me, I did watch him hit a guy, with his knuckle, repeatedly. Our senior was a great man as well as gnysgt hendrix. 

Sgt Campbell got so pissed at us he threw his cover on the ground and made us all walk on it, that seemed over the top. Our platoon never took a drill, the rifle range, nothing. During Reagens time we had 90 people in our platoon.


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## Luissa

Gunny said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> 
> A relative question.  For Vietnam-era boot camp?  It was probably pretty accurate minus Gunny Hartman pushing Private Pyle over the edge.  R Lee Ermey, who portrayed Gunny Hartman was a Marine Drill Instructor and he played the role to a "t".  He was exaclt how I remember my drill instructors, and as a drill instructor, we all played the same role.
> 
> The constant, every-minute jammed with training and/or running from one type training to another is pretty accurate.  The training schedule in Marine boot camp is God's Law, and only an act of God will cause any deviation from it.
> 
> The physical abuse as far as drill instructors putting their hands on privates was a bit much.  Gunny Hartman was like everything that could go wrong with a drill instructor and he played the wrong role.  The Senior Drill Instructor is NEVER the heavy.  The SDI is "daddy."  The junior drill instructor is usually the heavy.
> 
> When you make the SDI the heavy instead of "daddy", it gives the recruits a sense of hopelessness as if they have nowhere to turn because the guy who is supposed to be handling their issues is the one tormenting them.  It's a morale killer.
> 
> As an senior, Hartman had too much "hands on".  The senior is pat of the drill instructor team; yet, a little bit aloof from the other hats to create that separation recruits pick up on whether consciously or unconsciously.  In Full Metal jacket, the junior drill intructors had minimal presence.
> 
> Where a difference I can't address exists is that Full Metal Jacket was a Vietnam-era scenario and recruits were drafted.  I was a drill instructor in the all volunteer Marine Corps.  Little short of death got you out of boot camp during the former; while, during the latter, one merely had to refuse to train and would be eventually administratively discharged.  That alone would completely change the mindset of the drill instructors.
> 
> Oh, and while I won't say it never happens, a drill instructor that strikes a private has failed.  He has failed as a teacher and as a Marine.  He destroys the respect that recruit has for the uniform and the title "Marine" and definitely brings dishonor upon himself and the Corps.  Recruits are at the drill instructor's mercy completely.  Their is no excuse for abusing that power.
> 
> My two cents.
> 
> 
> 
> The guy who played Gunny I seriously think has to be alittle crazy in real life, every role he plays he is alittle crazy. In Saving Silverman he is completly gone but quite hilarious!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you ever listen to an interview with him, he is quite sane.  He plays those roles because he entertains people.  He was interviewed for a History Channel show, The History of the US Marine Corps, or something like that, and he talks about being a drill instructor.
Click to expand...

he is an actor I am sure he knows how to act sane!
I am sure you are right but I think he flies his freak flag when no one can see it and to play crazy roles.
I like him in everything he has done especially in Saving Silverman, if you have not seen it watch it. Of course I used to only watch it stoned but I swear it is hilarious.


----------



## elvis

Gunny said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I heard it said that it was pretty authentic.  what was and what wasn't accurate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A relative question.  For Vietnam-era boot camp?  It was probably pretty accurate minus Gunny Hartman pushing Private Pyle over the edge.  R Lee Ermey, who portrayed Gunny Hartman was a Marine Drill Instructor and he played the role to a "t".  He was exaclt how I remember my drill instructors, and as a drill instructor, we all played the same role.
> 
> The constant, every-minute jammed with training and/or running from one type training to another is pretty accurate.  The training schedule in Marine boot camp is God's Law, and only an act of God will cause any deviation from it.
> 
> The physical abuse as far as drill instructors putting their hands on privates was a bit much.  Gunny Hartman was like everything that could go wrong with a drill instructor and he played the wrong role.  The Senior Drill Instructor is NEVER the heavy.  The SDI is "daddy."  The junior drill instructor is usually the heavy.
> 
> When you make the SDI the heavy instead of "daddy", it gives the recruits a sense of hopelessness as if they have nowhere to turn because the guy who is supposed to be handling their issues is the one tormenting them.  It's a morale killer.
> 
> As an senior, Hartman had too much "hands on".  The senior is pat of the drill instructor team; yet, a little bit aloof from the other hats to create that separation recruits pick up on whether consciously or unconsciously.  In Full Metal jacket, the junior drill intructors had minimal presence.
> 
> Where a difference I can't address exists is that Full Metal Jacket was a Vietnam-era scenario and recruits were drafted.  I was a drill instructor in the all volunteer Marine Corps.  Little short of death got you out of boot camp during the former; while, during the latter, one merely had to refuse to train and would be eventually administratively discharged.  That alone would completely change the mindset of the drill instructors.
> 
> Oh, and while I won't say it never happens, a drill instructor that strikes a private has failed.  He has failed as a teacher and as a Marine.  He destroys the respect that recruit has for the uniform and the title "Marine" and definitely brings dishonor upon himself and the Corps.  Recruits are at the drill instructor's mercy completely.  Their is no excuse for abusing that power.
> 
> My two cents.
Click to expand...


Did they shorten the basic training during Vietnam because they needed troops so bad, adding that much more pressure to DI's to get the troops prepared?


----------



## Coloradomtnman

I went to MCRD San Diego in July of 1995.  Boot camp in Full Metal Jacket is 99% accurate other than R. Lee Ermey was the Senior Drill Instructor and spent a lot of time with his recruits.  Our Junior Drill Instructor was with us most of the time, and I hated that bastard.  After Hell Week I realized he was just playing a role.

I tell you what, I'd rather spend my time in the desert and sunny San Diego than deal with sand fleas and humidity out on an isolated island.  Call me Hollywood if you want.  Basic wasn't much fun and I sure didn't need it to be any less fun than it already wasn't...understand!

I thought about becoming a drill instructor after I picked up Corporal.  I had a pretty stellar career ahead of me, I was company guide, got along well my with the SNCOs and junior officers in my battalion (cause I was a pogue).  But then when it I got close to my discharge, I thought, I did my four years, being a drill instructor would've been great but I want to go to school and get on with my ambitions in life.

And there are great moments in the second half of the movie editec: such as when the main character and the photographer are riding out in the helicopter with the .50 cal gunner shooting at innocent people.  I love that part!  I laugh everytime.

I love R. Lee Ermey.  That guy is hilarious.


----------



## Coloradomtnman

Amanda said:


> I don't know what they do to girls... but knowing what my bros and dad have said I don't care. I will go and I WILL fuck them up. I can be an unstoppable force of nature when I bring it, and I will bring it. I never lose my site on the prize. They can NOT break me.
> 
> A lot of people here probably think of me as a tender little flower because of how I talk about God and love... don't be deceived, I'm also the little girl that can drop a deer at 300 yards with a lite load, and skin it and turn it into dinner. And soooo much more. I'm pretty sure my destiny is with the Marines, like my father and his father before him. I think I need to join this long family tradition, and no matter what happens I will have made my father proud. And is there truly anything better 1 can do in their life? I don't think so.



Somebody's gonna learn humility real quick!  Good luck, Amanda!

And, another thing, the Marines for you, being a pretty girl, will be a constant fight against male Marines who feel resentful that you won't sleep with them, who think you are getting screwed by all the higher ranking Marines in your platoon so you can get promoted or whatever, of female Marines who think the same thing or are jealous (cause there are a lot of ugly women in the Marines) against Marines who want to sleep with you (and be wary because the rate of rape for active duty female Marines is extremely high) - you're gonna be walking around with about 20 dudes constantly watching you or trying to get your attention.  So just be ready for that.  The Marine Corps is not what you expect.  Not even close.  Back me up on this Gunny, Retired Gysgt., and the rest of you former Marines.

I hated being a Marine and loved it.  I look back on it now, having been out almost ten years, and I don't regret it a bit.  But it was no walk in the park.  And I was good at it.


----------



## editec

Boot-camp has a way of buffing off those rough edges a lot of us have when we're young.

I can fold my clothes like a there's no tomorrow, even thirty years after the fact.

All the girls at the laudrymat are always impressed.


Let's see ... what else did I take away from that place?

_hmmm..._Nope, that's it.

That's not really all that much for sixteen forking  weeks of 24/7 non-stop bullshit, is it?


----------



## Amanda

Coloradomtnman said:


> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what they do to girls... but knowing what my bros and dad have said I don't care. I will go and I WILL fuck them up. I can be an unstoppable force of nature when I bring it, and I will bring it. I never lose my site on the prize. They can NOT break me.
> 
> A lot of people here probably think of me as a tender little flower because of how I talk about God and love... don't be deceived, I'm also the little girl that can drop a deer at 300 yards with a lite load, and skin it and turn it into dinner. And soooo much more. I'm pretty sure my destiny is with the Marines, like my father and his father before him. I think I need to join this long family tradition, and no matter what happens I will have made my father proud. And is there truly anything better 1 can do in their life? I don't think so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Somebody's gonna learn humility real quick!  Good luck, Amanda!
> 
> And, another thing, the Marines for you, being a pretty girl, will be a constant fight against male Marines who feel resentful that you won't sleep with them, who think you are getting screwed by all the higher ranking Marines in your platoon so you can get promoted or whatever, of female Marines who think the same thing or are jealous (cause there are a lot of ugly women in the Marines) against Marines who want to sleep with you (and be wary because the rate of rape for active duty female Marines is extremely high) - you're gonna be walking around with about 20 dudes constantly watching you or trying to get your attention.  So just be ready for that.  The Marine Corps is not what you expect.  Not even close.  Back me up on this Gunny, Retired Gysgt., and the rest of you former Marines.
> 
> I hated being a Marine and loved it.  I look back on it now, having been out almost ten years, and I don't regret it a bit.  But it was no walk in the park.  And I was good at it.
Click to expand...


WTF is wrong with you people?

Did you go to bootcamp all soft and squishy? 

I know how people can break down in there, I've heard plenty of stories. I'm stronger willed than that and that's somehow bad?

WTF ever.


----------



## Coloradomtnman

Amanda said:


> WTF is wrong with you people?
> 
> Did you go to bootcamp all soft and squishy?
> 
> I know how people can break down in there, I've heard plenty of stories. I'm stronger willed than that and that's somehow bad?
> 
> WTF ever.



If you go to boot camp confident, it'll certainly help you.  However, don't underestimate Marine Corps basic training.  Being that you're 19 years old and probably haven't really been tested by the world (I'm assuming here), don't be too condident.

Hearing stories and experiencing the reality are two different things.  A 27-year old husband and father of two committed suicide by jumping headfirst from the third deck of the barracks into the asphalt below with only a month left till graduation.  Now you can say, "Oh, well, he was weak!", but you know what - he made it through the two most difficult months of Marine Corps basic training.  Something sent him over the edge to make such an irrational decision.

I enlisted when I was 17.  My drunk step-father had beaten me and my drunk, loveless mother since I was a young kid.  He humiliated me constantly.  I grew up neglected, unloved at home, and, as you can probably guess, really fucked up.  I finally kicked my step-father's ass when I was sixteen and would've killed him had my mother not stepped in and hit me in the back of the head 8 times until I was too stunned to keep pounding that son of a bitch's head into the kitchen tile.  I had a very rough childhood and when I graduated high school I couldn't wait to leave home (I've never gone back).  I went to basic training and all I wanted to do was be a Marine.  The first night that we actually got to sleep, all around the squad bay I heard the crying of many new recruits and it was only the second night.  But I wasn't one of them.  I was excited.

My uncles, grandfathers and my real father told me about how they thought to themselves while in basic training 'What the hell am I doing here??'  I never thought that.  I thought then that I knew exactly why I was there, but I didn't.  At the time I thought I just wanted to be a Marine, travel the world, gain the respect of all the people I met, have sex with many exotic and beautiful women (none of which really happened).  What I really wanted was to be a Marine (and all the rest of it, too), but I also wanted to get away from my unhappy past, I wanted to do something special with my life, and I wanted to shape myself into the man I wanted to be.  I was obsessed with earning the eagle, globe, and anchor.  I was driven.  Nothing was gonna stop me.

Now I climb sheer mountain faces, I've done some crazy, hard, difficult, extreme, dangerous shit and have almost died on more than a few occassions.  I'm no pussy.

And boot camp was still really fucking hard.


----------



## American Horse

elvis3577 said:


> I heard it said that it was pretty authentic.  what was and what wasn't accurate?


My boot camp was San Diego 1960,  Aug 19 - Dec 13.  It was just 4-years after the incident at PI in which some recruits were drowned in Ribbon Creek.  Close enough (within a regular 4-year enlistment) that it was on everyone's mind still.

There were momentary tirades like that one, but a DI would not waste that much time and energy on one recruit, and yelling was minimal in duration, but loud enough that everyone could hear clearly.  Every "event" like that was instead controlled, usually insulting, and cutting.

As to violence, not very much. 
A buddy of mine had a dirty rifle bore during a rifle inspection and the DI slammed him one time in the chest with the rifle butt while he stood at attention.  When I say dirty I mean that there may have been a mote of dust in it; not dirty by civilian standards.

I was caught reading a letter from my girlfriend in my tent just after I'd gotten off mess duty; the (same) DI ordered me to report to the duty tent (we were at the range) and when I got there he gave me a very intense reaming out: He said "Private....I've been watching you.... you're a fuck up...!  No more mistakes from you, or I'll have you on mess duty until....(and)" then he grabbed me by the shirt and literally threw me out through the hatch of the duty tent into the company street.  

The DI's were always looking for mistakes or infractions, and if possible would punish the whole platoon to maximise the message and learning potential to the team unity.  As you probably know showers came at the end of the day, and everyone went into these big open area showers at the same time.  We were all in there, and some chattering started up among a few shitheads.  The DI could hear this he and ordered us all to get down in the shower and give him 20 push-ups.  Of course someone piped up with: "You guys!!!!" and the DI said make that 40 push-ups!  Then someone chirped up again, and we got another 20 added on. I thought it would never stop.  I think we got up to 100 plus.

Most of what we see in these movies is a caricature of what really happened.  We who were there won't disclaim it because it's hard to convey the impression it made on you to feel so powerless, and at the same time be under complete scrutiny for every possible screw up or mistake. But we got to be very good.  It was a thrill to march back to quonset huts or to the mess hall at the end of the day and hear the crash of 70 boots all striking the pavement  at the same precise instant.

It may have gotten worse after my time, but I've tended to think it probably stayed pretty much the same over the years since then. However there would've been good reason to make it tougher during the bad years of Viet Nam, because about every one was going to go there and there was a need to flush the weak.


----------



## American Horse

Amanda said:


> Coloradomtnman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what they do to girls... but knowing what my bros and dad have said I don't care. I will go and I WILL fuck them up. I can be an unstoppable force of nature when I bring it, and I will bring it. I never lose my site on the prize. They can NOT break me.
> 
> A lot of people here probably think of me as a tender little flower because of how I talk about God and love... don't be deceived, I'm also the little girl that can drop a deer at 300 yards with a lite load, and skin it and turn it into dinner. And soooo much more. I'm pretty sure my destiny is with the Marines, like my father and his father before him. I think I need to join this long family tradition, and no matter what happens I will have made my father proud. And is there truly anything better 1 can do in their life? I don't think so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Somebody's gonna learn humility real quick!  Good luck, Amanda!
> 
> And, another thing, the Marines for you, being a pretty girl, will be a constant fight against male Marines who feel resentful that you won't sleep with them, who think you are getting screwed by all the higher ranking Marines in your platoon so you can get promoted or whatever, of female Marines who think the same thing or are jealous (cause there are a lot of ugly women in the Marines) against Marines who want to sleep with you (and be wary because the rate of rape for active duty female Marines is extremely high) - you're gonna be walking around with about 20 dudes constantly watching you or trying to get your attention.  So just be ready for that.  The Marine Corps is not what you expect.  Not even close.  Back me up on this Gunny, Retired Gysgt., and the rest of you former Marines.
> 
> I hated being a Marine and loved it.  I look back on it now, having been out almost ten years, and I don't regret it a bit.  But it was no walk in the park.  And I was good at it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTF is wrong with you people?
> 
> Did you go to bootcamp all soft and squishy?
> 
> I know how people can break down in there, I've heard plenty of stories. I'm stronger willed than that and that's somehow bad?
> 
> WTF ever.
Click to expand...


All true enough Mtn,
If you join you'll be in a WM Company, which is usually right next to the Central area service club.  The WM uniforms are a little dumpy looking so this removes some of the "allure" as compared to civilian attire.  For two years I was at Base Communications and about one third of our people were WMs.  Usually the guys a WM knows or dates will be the men from Marine Corps Base units, and not from the grunts, so the admin guys pretty well keep them occupied. I don't think there was a lot of intrigue among the guys.  Either you could get close to a WM or you coudn't.  I dated a girl for a year, but when I went to Division, I really felt relieved.  We'd broken up, and I never went back anywhere near the service club again, because I didn't want to stir anything up in any possible way. Grunts can't get into the club without a WM sponsor, but at the same time MarCorBase guys have complete access.

Has that changed any?  I see no reason to believe that it has.
I still communicate with another WM friend  from "Base Comm" after 45 years.


----------



## Gunny

Amanda said:


> Coloradomtnman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what they do to girls... but knowing what my bros and dad have said I don't care. I will go and I WILL fuck them up. I can be an unstoppable force of nature when I bring it, and I will bring it. I never lose my site on the prize. They can NOT break me.
> 
> A lot of people here probably think of me as a tender little flower because of how I talk about God and love... don't be deceived, I'm also the little girl that can drop a deer at 300 yards with a lite load, and skin it and turn it into dinner. And soooo much more. I'm pretty sure my destiny is with the Marines, like my father and his father before him. I think I need to join this long family tradition, and no matter what happens I will have made my father proud. And is there truly anything better 1 can do in their life? I don't think so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Somebody's gonna learn humility real quick!  Good luck, Amanda!
> 
> And, another thing, the Marines for you, being a pretty girl, will be a constant fight against male Marines who feel resentful that you won't sleep with them, who think you are getting screwed by all the higher ranking Marines in your platoon so you can get promoted or whatever, of female Marines who think the same thing or are jealous (cause there are a lot of ugly women in the Marines) against Marines who want to sleep with you (and be wary because the rate of rape for active duty female Marines is extremely high) - you're gonna be walking around with about 20 dudes constantly watching you or trying to get your attention.  So just be ready for that.  The Marine Corps is not what you expect.  Not even close.  Back me up on this Gunny, Retired Gysgt., and the rest of you former Marines.
> 
> I hated being a Marine and loved it.  I look back on it now, having been out almost ten years, and I don't regret it a bit.  But it was no walk in the park.  And I was good at it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTF is wrong with you people?
> 
> Did you go to bootcamp all soft and squishy?
> 
> I know how people can break down in there, I've heard plenty of stories. I'm stronger willed than that and that's somehow bad?
> 
> WTF ever.
Click to expand...


You need to lighten up.  There is a grain of truth to what Colorado's saying.  Not necessarily because of the Marine Corps, but because of people.  WMs ARE jealous of prettier WMs.  There IS a lot of backbiting and office politics.  And there ARE a lot of 17-18 years old away from momma or the farm the first time that will follow WMs around like lost puppies.  There ARE those who of higher rank that will make all sorts of promises to get you in bed.  

That isn't saying you won't or can't make it.  That's not saying all of the above happens everyday everywhere in the Corps.  It's just saying it has happened, and will likely continue to happen.  

Going to boot camp soft and squishy doesn't mean a damned thing.  For one thing, you send a recruit like that to boot camp nowadays and its the recruiter's ass.  If you want to be a Marine and don't ever, not even for a second quit, you will be one.  

However you won't have to worry about "bringing it."  They'll have "it" waiting for you.

Btw ... I was married to a WM for 13 years.  So I'm not just talking out my ass from a biased perspective.  Her friends were WMs and I used to listen to them talk, and used to listen to some of the crap my ex put with.


----------



## Gunny

American Horse said:


> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coloradomtnman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Somebody's gonna learn humility real quick!  Good luck, Amanda!
> 
> And, another thing, the Marines for you, being a pretty girl, will be a constant fight against male Marines who feel resentful that you won't sleep with them, who think you are getting screwed by all the higher ranking Marines in your platoon so you can get promoted or whatever, of female Marines who think the same thing or are jealous (cause there are a lot of ugly women in the Marines) against Marines who want to sleep with you (and be wary because the rate of rape for active duty female Marines is extremely high) - you're gonna be walking around with about 20 dudes constantly watching you or trying to get your attention.  So just be ready for that.  The Marine Corps is not what you expect.  Not even close.  Back me up on this Gunny, Retired Gysgt., and the rest of you former Marines.
> 
> I hated being a Marine and loved it.  I look back on it now, having been out almost ten years, and I don't regret it a bit.  But it was no walk in the park.  And I was good at it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WTF is wrong with you people?
> 
> Did you go to bootcamp all soft and squishy?
> 
> I know how people can break down in there, I've heard plenty of stories. I'm stronger willed than that and that's somehow bad?
> 
> WTF ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All true enough Mtn,
> If you join you'll be in a WM Company, which is usually right next to the Central area service club.  The WM uniforms are a little dumpy looking so this removes some of the "allure" as compared to civilian attire.  For two years I was at Base Communications and about one third of our people were WMs.  Usually the guys a WM knows or dates will be the men from Marine Corps Base units, and not from the grunts, so the admin guys pretty well keep them occupied. I don't think there was a lot of intrigue among the guys.  Either you could get close to a WM or you coudn't.  I dated a girl for a year, but when I went to Division, I really felt relieved.  We'd broken up, and I never went back anywhere near the service club again, because I didn't want to stir anything up in any possible way. Grunts can't get into the club without a WM sponsor, but at the same time MarCorBase guys have complete access.
> 
> Has that changed any?  I see no reason to believe that it has.
> I still communicate with another WM friend  from "Base Comm" after 45 years.
Click to expand...


LMFAO!  Dude, there is no more gender segregation in the Marines except for BEQ rooms/living quarters.  There was one still at 29 Palms when I got there in 1980, but they moved them out of the "compound" and into the BEQs within a year.  

The only thing women couldn't do at the time I retired was serve in combat arms MOSs.  Any  and everything else was gender neutral.


----------



## ItsFairmont

The part of Full Metal Jacket that was definitely accurate was that Marines use soap.

It helps people stay clean.


----------



## Tech_Esq

AllieBaba said:


> The inspiration for Full Metal Jacket was a novel called The Short-Timers by Viet Nam combat correspondent Gustav Hasford. He was a friend of my ex-husband, and had a circle of friends which included Kent Anderson, a vet of the 5th special forces group and author of "Sympathy for the Devil". According to Kent and my ex, the novel was very authentic and drew on Gustav's own experiences.
> 
> My understanding is that his time in Viet Nam affected him terribly, and he died ill and alone and essentially a recluse in 1993.



Wow! I'm sorry to hear that. I read the Short-timers around the time I joined the Army in 1982. I loved the book. The movie sort of took the second and third parts of the book and mashed them together. If you haven't read the book, but liked the movie, get the book!

The first part of the movie was very faithful to the book. I was in Army, Infantry, Basic training and it is very much modeled on what the Marines do. It is also a 13 week program. What really strikes a chord with me is attitudes and relationships depicted in both the book and movie. Those are authentic to my mind. Even in the 15 years that separated my experience and his, there were significant differences in what Drills could and couldn't do. I was a Drill Corporal after my cycle finished (kinda like a Drill Sergeant's assistant). There was a policy letter covering what you could do and say to the troopies. At Ft. Benning that was policy letter 13. We were not allowed to hit any troops. No more than 20 push ups at one time. You were not allowed to cuss at troops (this one was ignored). "Abuse" was relatively limited, but "extra training" was very much allowed. Some troops really had a "problem" learning such things as the low crawl and extra training might involve them low crawling hundreds of yards in full equipment so they could "learn" this very important technique of movement 

So, the themes were quite accurate. As to specific events like the bayoneting of the Drill or the suicide scene, we were required to keep our weapons in the arms room so the suicide could not have happened like that. Training incidents resulting in injury were frequent.


----------



## Tech_Esq

Amanda said:


> According to my bros it is pretty much dead on except they aren't supposed to hit you anymore. They said it's actually worse now because of the head games, they would rather have been hit.
> 
> Doesn't change my mind, I'm still going Marines when I finally pull the trigger on this.



13 weeks on the Island. Have fun! I recommend summer time. You'll get used to the heat, but the cold is an MFer.


----------



## Tech_Esq

Amanda said:


> krotchdog said:
> 
> 
> 
> The boot camp scene was dead on.
> 
> Three people dead while I went through boot camp, one on the pistol range shot his brains out, I did not see this.
> 
> Another died in the morning standing in front of his rack right after reville, he did not take in enough salt and died of dehdration.
> 
> Another drowned during swim qual, they said he died of a heart attack, I bet he did, if you could not swim the DI's pushed you under until you swam, no drowning, poor son of a bitch had a heart attack.
> 
> Had another guy slit his wrists and lived.
> 
> Another jumped off the 2nd floor, not far enough to die but he broke his legs.
> 
> I watched the DI hit people, not often and only at the end of boot camp when we had to little time left to report it. Nobody took a chance that late in the game, we got short and just wanted to make it.
> 
> People say they would rather be hit, right, we had the mind games and got hit, we suffered from sleep deprivation, lack of water, too much excercise, mind games, even less sleep, complete fatigue. I was a hollywood marine, I hear the guys at perris island got at alive by sand fleas.
> 
> The movie was dead on except there is just no way for an audience to truely relate.
> 
> I hated my drill instructor, Sgt Cambell, I remember his face like it was yesterday, his voice, what a prick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what they do to girls... but knowing what my bros and dad have said I don't care. I will go and I WILL fuck them up. I can be an unstoppable force of nature when I bring it, and I will bring it. I never lose my site on the prize. They can NOT break me.
> 
> A lot of people here probably think of me as a tender little flower because of how I talk about God and love... don't be deceived, I'm also the little girl that can drop a deer at 300 yards with a lite load, and skin it and turn it into dinner. And soooo much more. I'm pretty sure my destiny is with the Marines, like my father and his father before him. I think I need to join this long family tradition, and no matter what happens I will have made my father proud. And is there truly anything better 1 can do in their life? I don't think so.
Click to expand...


I see......be sure to tell your Drills on the first day, and don't be bashful about this, say it loud and proud, "I brought my own can of smoke to the island Drill Instructor!"

After that, you can just sit back and enjoy the ride, proudly knowing that you are going to get every bit of training the Marines can impart to you.

(As a side note, my inspiration for telling you that was my room mate in Airborne school. He told the Black Hats that on the first day of Airborne training.  )


----------



## Tech_Esq

RetiredGySgt said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> The first half of that movie was great.
> 
> The second half of that film was shyte.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was because they were trying to make a stupid political message.
> 
> Tell ya what though at the end when he wouldn't shot the sniper? After she shot my guys? No problem shooting her.
Click to expand...


What they did with the second half of the movie was a travesty. The book was great through both the second and third parts. In the second part he's a war correspondent for the Marines and visits the unit he eventually goes to. After a few crazy incidents Joker is promoted and sent to the line. The sniper scene actually takes place in the jungle not on urban terrain. Hassfurt goes through excruciating detail about how the bullets rip through the bodies of those hit. It's an amazingly powerful part of the book.


----------



## AllieBaba

She sounds young. Let her go, she'll float or sink. Amanda, why the hell do you give a shit about what old farts on a messageboard think and why are you trying to prove to us you're tough?

Just go do your thing and God bless.


----------



## Tech_Esq

Gunny said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> The first half of that movie was great.
> 
> The second half of that film was shyte.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was because they were trying to make a stupid political message.
> 
> Tell ya what though at the end when he wouldn't shot the sniper? After she shot my guys? No problem shooting her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Y'think?  Not so easy to pull that trigger while looking someone dead in the eyes.  Not saying you wouldn't.  It's just not as easy as you think, and you need to give some consideration to what you're willing to live with for the rest of your life.
> 
> In the end, it's just you and God, and you better be able to justify it to both of you.
Click to expand...


That said, I'll relate a story one of my friends told me while I was in the Army. He was a former Marine sergeant 1st MarDiv in VietNam. Their unit had been on patrol and was taking a break in Indian country. (We'll leave aside how wrong all of the events that occurred are and the break down in discipline that allowed it to happen). One of the Marines was enticed by a Vietnamese girl into the bush with an offer of sex. He went (yeah, I know). As it turns out, she was Viet Cong and had inserted a piece of tire rubber fashoined in a tube in her vagina with razor blades on the inside. The guy screamed and came running out the bush with blood everywhere. His fellow Marines grabbed the girl and fired a pop-up flare where the razor blades had been.

Now he may have been a hard case, cuz he also sent his mom and ear for Mother's Day. Time and Place. Time and Place. But people live with all kinds of things the rest of their lives.


----------



## Tech_Esq

Coloradomtnman said:


> I went to MCRD San Diego in July of 1995.  Boot camp in Full Metal Jacket is 99% accurate other than R. Lee Ermey was the Senior Drill Instructor and spent a lot of time with his recruits.  Our Junior Drill Instructor was with us most of the time, and I hated that bastard.  After Hell Week I realized he was just playing a role.
> 
> I tell you what, I'd rather spend my time in the desert and sunny San Diego than deal with sand fleas and humidity out on an isolated island.  Call me Hollywood if you want.  Basic wasn't much fun and I sure didn't need it to be any less fun than it already wasn't...understand!
> 
> I thought about becoming a drill instructor after I picked up Corporal.  I had a pretty stellar career ahead of me, I was company guide, got along well my with the SNCOs and junior officers in my battalion (cause I was a pogue).  But then when it I got close to my discharge, I thought, I did my four years, being a drill instructor would've been great but I want to go to school and get on with my ambitions in life.
> 
> And there are great moments in the second half of the movie editec: such as when the main character and the photographer are riding out in the helicopter with the .50 cal gunner shooting at innocent people.  I love that part!  I laugh everytime.
> 
> I love R. Lee Ermey.  That guy is hilarious.



It was an M-60D with spade grips. "_Get Some! Get Some_!"


----------



## Tech_Esq

editec said:


> Boot-camp has a way of buffing off those rough edges a lot of us have when we're young.
> 
> I can fold my clothes like a there's no tomorrow, even thirty years after the fact.
> 
> All the girls at the laudrymat are always impressed.
> 
> 
> Let's see ... what else did I take away from that place?
> 
> _hmmm..._Nope, that's it.
> 
> That's not really all that much for sixteen forking  weeks of 24/7 non-stop bullshit, is it?



Come on! You're still and expert in the janatorial arts aren't you? You probably still know how to cut grass with a swingblade. Probably can strip a floor with the best of 'em.


----------



## mightypeon

Pah, from my time in the Germany army, I learned a lot of highly important skills.

-How to fill in complicated forms
-How to win "intoxination contests" (after Boot camp actually)
-That wearing two sets of socks at the sime time does a lot to survive exercises in the Lithuanian winter, it also gives you 2 biochemical side arms of mass destruction. (also after Boot camp)
-How to sleep with open eyes


----------



## CrimsonWhite

I can't speak for USMC bootcamp. I was in the Army. We were served breakfast in bed and our drill sergeants stroked our hair and told us how great we were. It was a pretty fantastic time for us.


----------



## coldwar23

I can speak from two generations of the reality and differences of the movie.  My dad was at Parris Island in '74 and the stories he told me BEFORE he saw the movie were spot on.  He told me about Gardener, the "shitbird", and the ex highschool lineman that tried to hit the DI the first day and got his teeth kicked in by the DI.  He also told me about the other shitbirds that were given the option of The Corps or jail time and how the US needed "warm bodies" at the time.  He told me about a very similar speech a DI gave them about supplying God with souls and holding a Bhudda statue and getting them to warface chant "Bbbhhuuudddaaa" over and over again.  They were called every name in the book, got the physical shit kicked outta them, and had to cover for each other (dad had to qualify shoot for Gardener by rolling over to his mat and firing- dad was sharpshooter).  Dad's least favorite PT is still the sand buckets lol.

My experience with Army Basic was pretty different.  Most guys there were pretty decided in their focus of military career as opposed to just being warm body ground fodder.  "I'm just here to learn computers" was pretty common, at least in my group.  Luckily the US wasn't really engaged in any major foreign engagements at the time, so it was really maintenance by SF and presence at NATO bases at the time   Our TIs weren't there to hold our hands, but they weren't allowed to do many of the things in FMJ due to our wonderful litigious society with the asshats at the ACLU.  They couldn't hit us or call us faggots (maggots has been used at least since my dad's time as an alternative).  Again it was a different time.  We had two shitbirds in my group (now just called fatbodies) but one actually washed out thankfully.  I had experience as a Boy Scout, so it was really like a Mean Crazy Summer Camp with a Gun for me.  I had always been into the military so I had read many things previously that I got to actually touch.  I had also done JROTC in highschool so drills weren't a problem.  I'm pretty bright, but those things always mess me up so I'm glad I had practice lol.  As I mentioned before I was pretty much there for a career with rank boosts from Eagle Scout and JROTC.  I got my knowledge, served my time happily and met many great friends I still have today.  There is something about the military, when you are doing things in a routine fashion that many folks never ever get to do, that you take a step back and say "Holy cow.  Me and these 23 other assholes just changed X event from changing the WORLD."  

So yeah for the time period it is spot on.  I emailed the 10 mins of boot camp to dad after he got retired from his job from a stroke.  He called me all choked up, but he was talking about going out and finishing the roof of the house.  Mom later said he had watched it several times in a row and had of course forwarded it to everyone on his email list- but it was the catalyst for getting him back to normal awesome guy again   I'm glad to say that he is completely recovered and enjoys his Saturdays with his granddaughter and he is STILL "Dead Eye Atticus" if any of ya are a lil read up   This is my account some first hand, some not, hope it helps someone.  Thanks for reading


----------



## Trajan

elvis said:


> I heard it said that it was pretty authentic.  what was and what wasn't accurate?



pretty darn close. I went through PI summer of 79, the head games were worse than they had time to show imho, physical challenges...I took a beating in the shower room due to my , uhm,  NYC smart ass attitude, plus they had a 'rehabilitation' unit called Motivation platoon....dude, thats 10X worse than what you saw.


----------



## Trajan

RetiredGySgt said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> retiredgysgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> i went through boot camp after changes had occurred but it was still pretty close to what we had, the only thing being the drill instructors could not physically hit you. Still happened of course.  It was pretty real to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> when were you in bootcamp?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1979.
Click to expand...


No shit, me too, P.I.,  platoon 2019...."Senior drill instructor Staff Sgt. Bayless"...still rolls off the tongue like it was yesterday.....


----------



## Trajan

Gunny said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The physical abuse as far as drill instructors putting their hands on privates was a bit much.  Gunny Hartman was like everything that could go wrong with a drill instructor and he played the wrong role.  The Senior Drill Instructor is NEVER the heavy.  The SDI is "daddy."  *The junior drill instructor is usually the heavy.  *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bingo, we had 2 juniors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you make the SDI the heavy instead of "daddy", it gives the recruits a sense of hopelessness as if they have nowhere to turn because the guy who is supposed to be handling their issues is the one tormenting them.  It's a morale killer.
> 
> As an senior, Hartman had too much "hands on".  The senior is pat of the drill instructor team; yet, a little bit aloof from the other hats to create that separation recruits pick up on whether consciously or unconsciously.  In Full Metal jacket, the junior drill intructors had minimal presence.
> 
> Where a difference I can't address exists is that Full Metal Jacket was a Vietnam-era scenario and recruits were drafted.  I was a drill instructor in the all volunteer Marine Corps.  Little short of death got you out of boot camp during the former; while, during the latter, one merely had to refuse to train and would be eventually administratively discharged.  That alone would completely change the mindset of the drill instructors.
> 
> Oh, and while I won't say it never happens, a drill instructor that strikes a private has failed.  He has failed as a teacher and as a Marine.  He destroys the respect that recruit has for the uniform and the title "Marine" and definitely brings dishonor upon himself and the Corps.  Recruits are at the drill instructor's mercy completely.  Their is no excuse for abusing that power.
> 
> My two cents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree in spirit, however, my experience, was, different.
> I was a smart ass that didn't get it. Oh, they tried for the first 2 weeks, they broke me down physically but mentally? Not so much.Then one  day when the rest of the platoon was on the grinder, I found myself in the shower with with the 2 juniors and we had a 'chat'...looking back at it now, it was the right thing to do, I needed to be taught on another level that I wasn't the shit, that and 2 days at Motivation Platoon, my attitude took was adjusted.
> 
> We had guys drink brasso, one threatening to slit his wrists, one banged his head against the all it it bled.....we graduated I think 40 or so  out of 60.
Click to expand...


----------



## Trajan

Gunny said:


> krotchdog said:
> 
> 
> 
> The boot camp scene was dead on.
> 
> Three people dead while I went through boot camp, one on the pistol range shot his brains out, I did not see this.
> 
> Another died in the morning standing in front of his rack right after reville, he did not take in enough salt and died of dehdration.
> 
> Another drowned during swim qual, they said he died of a heart attack, I bet he did, if you could not swim the DI's pushed you under until you swam, no drowning, poor son of a bitch had a heart attack.
> 
> Had another guy slit his wrists and lived.
> 
> Another jumped off the 2nd floor, not far enough to die but he broke his legs.
> 
> I watched the DI hit people, not often and only at the end of boot camp when we had to little time left to report it. Nobody took a chance that late in the game, we got short and just wanted to make it.
> 
> People say they would rather be hit, right, we had the mind games and got hit, we suffered from sleep deprivation, lack of water, too much excercise, mind games, even less sleep, complete fatigue. I was a hollywood marine, I hear the guys at perris island got at alive by sand fleas.
> 
> The movie was dead on except there is just no way for an audience to truely relate.
> 
> I hated my drill instructor, Sgt Cambell, I remember his face like it was yesterday, his voice, what a prick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The game I absolutely hated the most was "make the rack."
> 
> Get on line.  In your grubby little meatbeaters you will have, two blankets, two sheets, a pillowcase and one fartsack.  You have one minute to get those scuzzy-ass racks made tight and squared away.
> 
> Repeat until the drill instructor got bored.
> 
> I used to laugh at people that said they hate their drill instructors.  They were playing roles.  You were just another bald-headed Gomer to them.  You took personally what to them was impersonal as Hell.
> 
> Those drill instructors had more pressure on them than at the time you could even comprehend.  I do not and never have condoned the abuse of power and/or violating the SOP, but there ARE two sides to the story.
> 
> That hat's got a wife and kids at home he never sees.  He has to be perfect at all times.  He has a schedule to keep that is near impossible.  He suffers the same sleep deprivation, fatigue you do, goes through the same training with you (and drill instructor school itself is a thousand times worse than boot camp because of all the things you have to memorize verbatim while making everything about you as a Marine perfect).
> 
> What you don't realize, again at the time, is that they ARE human.  They are people too.  You don't see them when THEY break down.  Or commit suicide.  Or purposefully injure themselves to get off the street.  Or find out they aren't home so momma's getting busy with someone else.
> 
> And while you're calling yourself a "Hollywood" Marine, I have been to both PI and San Diego.  I'll take sand fleas ANY day over Mount Mutherfucker and/or Old Smokey.
Click to expand...


now you got my mind working...as I said earlier the mental games inho were worse.
some of the  games?....lets see. pick'em up move'em out. 

we took apart our racks, then transferred it all to the grinder, dress right dress, foot lockers, everything, just when we got it set up, well, pick'em up, move em out. back into the bay. 

of course, I am sure it happens in every platoon,  one dope left his foot locker unlocked, so they took every lock off of all of the lockers and locked them all together intertwined and left them in a jumble on the deck, we came in from PT and of course; "secure your lockers with your locks, you have 15 minutes..Move".......yea right,  it took hours to unlock them all...

to many foot lockers not organized? they all get dumped in a jumble in the shower room.....

"2 sheets and a pillow case, Move"...who knows how many times we played that game..unreal. 

I remember maintenance week being a short slice of heaven in hell...


----------



## Jos

Are the training standards the same for female Marines ? The only female Royal Marines are in the Band


----------



## Big Fitz

This is all I know about the movie's authenticity.  Two of the vietnam vets who served said that in the Army and Air Force it wasn't quite as bad as that, but one of the Army DIs said it was very accurate for the era.

R. Lee Ermy remember was hired to be the technical expert as he supposedly WAS a DI during later Vietnam.  During filming the actor hired to play that character could not get the intensity needed to make Kubrick happy and definitely did not satisfy Ermy in regards to getting it right.  So when Kubrick was watching him illustrate what he used to do, he took Ermy aside and asked if he'd like to play that part.  Ermy, said he didn't know how to act per say, and Kubrick said just write out some of the best things he used to do, and they'd adapt it.  So Ermy did.

The rest is marvelously funny and scary cinematic history.  

That's what I've been told about the movie and accuracy.


----------



## MikeK

Gunny said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I heard it said that it was pretty authentic.  what was and what wasn't accurate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A relative question.  For Vietnam-era boot camp?  It was probably pretty accurate minus Gunny Hartman pushing Private Pyle over the edge.  R Lee Ermey, who portrayed Gunny Hartman was a Marine Drill Instructor and he played the role to a "t".  He was exaclt how I remember my drill instructors, and as a drill instructor, we all played the same role.
> 
> The constant, every-minute jammed with training and/or running from one type training to another is pretty accurate.  The training schedule in Marine boot camp is God's Law, and only an act of God will cause any deviation from it.
> 
> The physical abuse as far as drill instructors putting their hands on privates was a bit much.  Gunny Hartman was like everything that could go wrong with a drill instructor and he played the wrong role.  The Senior Drill Instructor is NEVER the heavy.  The SDI is "daddy."  The junior drill instructor is usually the heavy.
> 
> When you make the SDI the heavy instead of "daddy", it gives the recruits a sense of hopelessness as if they have nowhere to turn because the guy who is supposed to be handling their issues is the one tormenting them.  It's a morale killer.
> 
> As an senior, Hartman had too much "hands on".  The senior is pat of the drill instructor team; yet, a little bit aloof from the other hats to create that separation recruits pick up on whether consciously or unconsciously.  In Full Metal jacket, the junior drill intructors had minimal presence.
> 
> Where a difference I can't address exists is that Full Metal Jacket was a Vietnam-era scenario and recruits were drafted.  I was a drill instructor in the all volunteer Marine Corps.  Little short of death got you out of boot camp during the former; while, during the latter, one merely had to refuse to train and would be eventually administratively discharged.  That alone would completely change the mindset of the drill instructors.
> 
> Oh, and while I won't say it never happens, a drill instructor that strikes a private has failed.  He has failed as a teacher and as a Marine.  He destroys the respect that recruit has for the uniform and the title "Marine" and definitely brings dishonor upon himself and the Corps.  Recruits are at the drill instructor's mercy completely.  Their is no excuse for abusing that power.
> 
> My two cents.
Click to expand...

I went through PI in '56 (shortly after the S/Sgt. McKeon drowning incident) and everything you've said here is on the money, with minor exceptions.  Our Senior DI, a S/Sgt. Jones, a decorated Korea vet, was an Ermey stereotype -- meticulously tailored and polished and every bit as mean.  It appeared to me that the two Juniors, a _buck_ sergeant and corporal, were doing their best to be as mean as Jones but didn't quite cut it.  

I have always wondered if the name given to the ill-fated Pvt. _Pyle_ in _Full Metal Jacket_ wasn't inspired by one of Sgt. Jones' methods of harrassment.  Because one of the first things he did upon taking charge of the 86 "scumbag yankee shitpiles" who got off the bus on Parris Island (we were all from NY, NJ and PA and Jones was a deep southerner) is tell us not to dare think of ourselves as Marine Corps Privates, no matter what anybody else says or what we read.  We would have to earn that privilege and he would tell us when we graduate to the level of Private.  Meanwhile our rank is "Shitpile!"  Not "Recruit." We were piles of yankee shit and would refer to ourselves as _"Shitpile (last name)"._  So when I first saw the movie and heard the name, _Pyle_, it brought back that not-so-fond recollection.  

It took three weeks to graduate from _Shitpiles_ to Marine Corps Privates -- and it did impart some pathetic measure of pride.


----------



## Quantum Windbag

Amanda said:


> krotchdog said:
> 
> 
> 
> The boot camp scene was dead on.
> 
> Three people dead while I went through boot camp, one on the pistol range shot his brains out, I did not see this.
> 
> Another died in the morning standing in front of his rack right after reville, he did not take in enough salt and died of dehdration.
> 
> Another drowned during swim qual, they said he died of a heart attack, I bet he did, if you could not swim the DI's pushed you under until you swam, no drowning, poor son of a bitch had a heart attack.
> 
> Had another guy slit his wrists and lived.
> 
> Another jumped off the 2nd floor, not far enough to die but he broke his legs.
> 
> I watched the DI hit people, not often and only at the end of boot camp when we had to little time left to report it. Nobody took a chance that late in the game, we got short and just wanted to make it.
> 
> People say they would rather be hit, right, we had the mind games and got hit, we suffered from sleep deprivation, lack of water, too much excercise, mind games, even less sleep, complete fatigue. I was a hollywood marine, I hear the guys at perris island got at alive by sand fleas.
> 
> The movie was dead on except there is just no way for an audience to truely relate.
> 
> I hated my drill instructor, Sgt Cambell, I remember his face like it was yesterday, his voice, what a prick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what they do to girls... but knowing what my bros and dad have said I don't care. I will go and I WILL fuck them up. I can be an unstoppable force of nature when I bring it, and I will bring it. I never lose my site on the prize. They can NOT break me.
> 
> A lot of people here probably think of me as a tender little flower because of how I talk about God and love... don't be deceived, I'm also the little girl that can drop a deer at 300 yards with a lite load, and skin it and turn it into dinner. And soooo much more. I'm pretty sure my destiny is with the Marines, like my father and his father before him. I think I need to join this long family tradition, and no matter what happens I will have made my father proud. And is there truly anything better 1 can do in their life? I don't think so.
Click to expand...


They can, and will, break you. They do this to show you exactly, and I mean exactly, how much you can take. It is not as bad as it was before the politicians started interfering, but they still have to break you so that 
you can be a Marine. Marines are different than the rest of the world, and they break you so that you know what you can take, and that you will survive after you go beyond that point.

Breaking you is not the goal, it is the process.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

elvis said:


> I heard it said that it was pretty authentic.  what was and what wasn't accurate?



For the time period, pretty accurate. Actually physical contact no longer occurs and things are a bit more mellow in Boot camp now thanks to bitching and moaning from parents and such.


----------



## Micky G. Jagger

eots said:


> well dude..supply the clip at least...geez....is it just me ...or is this clip...funny as hell..in some weird way...
> 
> 
> YouTube - Full Metal Jacket Clip


 Nothing even close to that happened in my boot camp in the 1990's.  Also, my pappy said nothing like that happened in his boot camp in the late 1960's, which was prior to the all volunteer Army.


----------



## Zona

elvis said:


> I heard it said that it was pretty authentic.  what was and what wasn't accurate?



Which part?  I personally say the entire sequence of events were accurate...back then, the DI's could hit boots.  

Not now though.  Its a mental fuck game more so now.


----------



## Zona

elvis said:


> Sorry, I meant the entire first half of the movie.



Ah, well the D.I. was well beyond a Gunny, he was a E-9 in real life.  The man was born for that role, literally.

Great great great movie.  The second half was good, but the first brings me back to a "fun" time in my life.


----------



## blu

RetiredGySgt said:


> I went through Boot camp after changes had occurred but It was still pretty close to what we had, the only thing being the Drill Instructors could not physically hit you. *Still happened of course*.  It was pretty real to me.



why would you let someone hit you?


----------



## Zona

Amanda said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to my bros it is pretty much dead on except they aren't supposed to hit you anymore. They said it's actually worse now because of the head games, they would rather have been hit.
> 
> Doesn't change my mind, I'm still going Marines when I finally pull the trigger on this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and you'll be a great one !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fuckin A, DD.
Click to expand...


Please, oh please join the marines!


----------



## MikeK

Micky G. Jagger said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> well dude..supply the clip at least...geez....is it just me ...or is this clip...funny as hell..in some weird way...
> 
> 
> YouTube - Full Metal Jacket Clip
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing even close to that happened in my boot camp in the 1990's.  Also, my pappy said nothing like that happened in his boot camp in the late 1960's, which was prior to the all volunteer Army.
Click to expand...

Marine boot camp underwent radical changes beginning in early 1957 owing to a 1956 incident in which several recruits were drowned in a tidal creek that a DI named McKeon was fond of taking his platoons through.  If that wasn't bad enough by itself, one of the drowned recruits was the son of famed newscaster, Walter Winchell, and another was the son of a very popular movie actress (name escapes me).  Needless to mention, the shit hit the fan and change was inevitable.


----------



## Zona

Amanda said:


> krotchdog said:
> 
> 
> 
> The boot camp scene was dead on.
> 
> Three people dead while I went through boot camp, one on the pistol range shot his brains out, I did not see this.
> 
> Another died in the morning standing in front of his rack right after reville, he did not take in enough salt and died of dehdration.
> 
> Another drowned during swim qual, they said he died of a heart attack, I bet he did, if you could not swim the DI's pushed you under until you swam, no drowning, poor son of a bitch had a heart attack.
> 
> Had another guy slit his wrists and lived.
> 
> Another jumped off the 2nd floor, not far enough to die but he broke his legs.
> 
> I watched the DI hit people, not often and only at the end of boot camp when we had to little time left to report it. Nobody took a chance that late in the game, we got short and just wanted to make it.
> 
> People say they would rather be hit, right, we had the mind games and got hit, we suffered from sleep deprivation, lack of water, too much excercise, mind games, even less sleep, complete fatigue. I was a hollywood marine, I hear the guys at perris island got at alive by sand fleas.
> 
> The movie was dead on except there is just no way for an audience to truely relate.
> 
> I hated my drill instructor, Sgt Cambell, I remember his face like it was yesterday, his voice, what a prick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what they do to girls... but knowing what my bros and dad have said I don't care. I will go and I WILL fuck them up. *I can be an unstoppable force of nature *when I bring it, and I will bring it. I never lose my site on the prize. *They can NOT break me. *
> A lot of people here probably think of me as a tender little flower because of how I talk about God and love... don't be deceived, I'm also the little girl that can drop a deer at 300 yards with a lite load, and skin it and turn it into dinner. And soooo much more. I'm pretty sure my destiny is with the Marines, like my father and his father before him. I think I need to join this long family tradition, and no matter what happens I will have made my father proud. And is there truly anything better 1 can do in their life? I don't think so.
Click to expand...


You are exactly the type that get dropped in about the third week.  It is fun watching your type break down.  (and this was Navy boot camp, let alone the marines...) lol

Please please please join the marines.  Please come back three weeks later and let us know how it turned out.    An unstoppable force?  Oh dear god.  Boot camp is designed for people who say things exactly like you just did.  

It is designed to break you down and bring you up a Marine.  Its not about you, its about being part of the team and being a marine.


----------



## Samson

MikeK said:


> Micky G. Jagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> well dude..supply the clip at least...geez....is it just me ...or is this clip...funny as hell..in some weird way...
> 
> 
> YouTube - Full Metal Jacket Clip
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing even close to that happened in my boot camp in the 1990's.  Also, my pappy said nothing like that happened in his boot camp in the late 1960's, which was prior to the all volunteer Army.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Marine boot camp underwent radical changes beginning in early 1957 owing to a 1956 incident in which several recruits were drowned in a tidal creek that a DI named McKeon was fond of taking his platoons through.  If that wasn't bad enough by itself, one of the drowned recruits was the son of famed newscaster, Walter Winchell, and another was the son of a very popular movie actress (name escapes me).  Needless to mention, the shit hit the fan and change was inevitable.
Click to expand...



The Ribbon Creek Incident.


----------



## MikeK

Luissa said:


> The guy who played Gunny I seriously think has to be alittle crazy in real life, every role he plays he is alittle crazy. In Saving Silverman he is completly gone but quite hilarious!


I believe that to be a _good_ DI one must possess the innate personal skills of a born method actor, i.e., one must project an intensely powerful image and convey a flawless impression.  And Ermey does that.


----------



## Samson

Gunny said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I heard it said that it was pretty authentic.  what was and what wasn't accurate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A relative question.  For Vietnam-era boot camp?  It was probably pretty accurate minus Gunny Hartman pushing Private Pyle over the edge.
> 
> My two cents.
Click to expand...


Sargent Carter was a more accurate portrayal






You can use that pic for your avatar if ya wanna.


----------



## Shooter

Here's the no-shitter.  The entire first half of the movie (boot camp) was pretty accurate.  I will say this.  Nowadays someone like Pyle wouldn't have stayed with his platoon if he was fucking up and as out of shape as he was in the movie.  Today the hats would toss his ass in PCP, or as we called it the Pork Chop Platoon or the Donut Brigade.

Interesting note about R Lee Ermey.  Everyone knows he was a real-life hat but what's cool about his performance is that over half of his dialogue was improvised which is *extremely* rare in a Stanley Kubrick movie.  Kubrick has always been a stickler for going by the script verbatim.  But he allowed Ermey to do his own thing because he liked the realistic and authentic portrayal of the part.


----------



## MikeK

editec said:


> Boot-camp has a way of buffing off those rough edges a lot of us have when we're young.
> 
> I can fold my clothes like a there's no tomorrow, even thirty years after the fact.
> 
> All the girls at the laudrymat are always impressed.
> 
> 
> Let's see ... what else did I take away from that place?
> 
> _hmmm..._Nope, that's it.
> 
> That's not really all that much for sixteen forking  weeks of 24/7 non-stop bullshit, is it?


----------



## Shooter

Zona said:


> Ah, well the D.I. was well beyond a Gunny, he was a E-9 in real life.  The man was born for that role, literally.



If you're referring to R Le Ermey you are incorrect.  Ermey retired as an E-6.  Later he received a post-retirement promotion to E-7.


----------



## Trajan

Micky G. Jagger said:


> which was prior to the all volunteer* Army*.




hello.....


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## Trajan

Samson said:


> MikeK said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Micky G. Jagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing even close to that happened in my boot camp in the 1990's.  Also, my pappy said nothing like that happened in his boot camp in the late 1960's, which was prior to the all volunteer Army.
> 
> 
> 
> Marine boot camp underwent radical changes beginning in early 1957 owing to a 1956 incident in which several recruits were drowned in a tidal creek that a DI named McKeon was fond of taking his platoons through.  If that wasn't bad enough by itself, one of the drowned recruits was the son of famed newscaster, Walter Winchell, and another was the son of a very popular movie actress (name escapes me).  Needless to mention, the shit hit the fan and change was inevitable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The Ribbon Creek Incident.
Click to expand...


yup...an interesting book too; Court-Martial at Parris Island: The Ribbon Creek Incident.

a short story on an aspect of that. 

Behind one of the lines on the rifle range,  the firing line that is,  there are 6-7 white crosses. We sat neat them during range week, some form the platoon  of course had to ask our DI what they were for, he told us they had buried some recruits there that were fuck ups and got themselves killed.....5 or 6 years ago I was talking to one of my old buddies and it came up, I found the book online.


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## Zona

Shooter said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, well the D.I. was well beyond a Gunny, he was a E-9 in real life.  The man was born for that role, literally.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you're referring to R Le Ermey you are incorrect.  Ermey retired as an E-6.  Later he received a post-retirement promotion to E-7.
Click to expand...


You are correct.  He was a D.I.  in san dog and did a few tours in nam.  He was the only retiree to get promoted like that.  I swear I read somewhere he was a E-9....damn, I am getting old.  CRS!


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## Zona

Coloradomtnman said:


> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what they do to girls... but knowing what my bros and dad have said I don't care. I will go and I WILL fuck them up. I can be an unstoppable force of nature when I bring it, and I will bring it. I never lose my site on the prize. They can NOT break me.
> 
> A lot of people here probably think of me as a tender little flower because of how I talk about God and love... don't be deceived, I'm also the little girl that can drop a deer at 300 yards with a lite load, and skin it and turn it into dinner. And soooo much more. I'm pretty sure my destiny is with the Marines, like my father and his father before him. I think I need to join this long family tradition, and no matter what happens I will have made my father proud. And is there truly anything better 1 can do in their life? I don't think so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Somebody's gonna learn humility real quick!  Good luck, Amanda!
> 
> And, another thing, the Marines for you, being a pretty girl, will be a constant fight against male Marines who feel resentful that you won't sleep with them, who think you are getting screwed by all the higher ranking Marines in your platoon so you can get promoted or whatever, of female Marines who think the same thing or are jealous (cause there are a lot of ugly women in the Marines) against Marines who want to sleep with you (and be wary because the rate of rape for active duty female Marines is extremely high) - you're gonna be walking around with about 20 dudes constantly watching you or trying to get your attention.  So just be ready for that.  The Marine Corps is not what you expect.  Not even close.  Back me up on this Gunny, Retired Gysgt., and the rest of you former Marines.
> 
> I hated being a Marine and loved it.  I look back on it now, having been out almost ten years, and I don't regret it a bit.  But it was no walk in the park.  And I was good at it.
Click to expand...


(keep in mind, some women like men sniffing all over them....but thats a whole differnt ball game....)

Back me up (anyone who went to any boot camp)..when a kid walked in with the attitude of "you cant break me"..what happened?  If someone said...." I can be an unstoppable force of nature when I bring it, and I will bring it."  What happened?  Eery single time..


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## MikeK

American Horse said:


> [...]It was a thrill to march back to quonset huts or to the mess hall at the end of the day and hear the crash of 70 boots all striking the pavement  at the same precise instant.[...]


During the early weeks at PI, when we felt like and knew we looked like a pathetic herd of dirty, exhausted, stumbling slobs, when passing what we knew to be a graduating platoon because of their clean, starched utilities, all moving in perfect unison and the sound of eighty heels striking hardtop in precise cadence, I remember thinking how far away it seemed and if we would ever make it -- and how proud their DIs must be at what they've managed to accomplish.  

There must be an enormous sense of creative satisfaction in such a unique achievement.


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## Zona

coldwar23 said:


> I can speak from two generations of the reality and differences of the movie.  My dad was at Parris Island in '74 and the stories he told me BEFORE he saw the movie were spot on.  He told me about Gardener, the "shitbird", and the ex highschool lineman that tried to hit the DI the first day and got his teeth kicked in by the DI.  He also told me about the other shitbirds that were given the option of The Corps or jail time and how the US needed "warm bodies" at the time.  He told me about a very similar speech a DI gave them about supplying God with souls and holding a Bhudda statue and getting them to warface chant "Bbbhhuuudddaaa" over and over again.  They were called every name in the book, got the physical shit kicked outta them, and had to cover for each other (dad had to qualify shoot for Gardener by rolling over to his mat and firing- dad was sharpshooter).  Dad's least favorite PT is still the sand buckets lol.
> 
> My experience with Army Basic was pretty different.  Most guys there were pretty decided in their focus of military career as opposed to just being warm body ground fodder.  "I'm just here to learn computers" was pretty common, at least in my group.  Luckily the US wasn't really engaged in any major foreign engagements at the time, so it was really maintenance by SF and presence at NATO bases at the time   Our TIs weren't there to hold our hands, but they weren't allowed to do many of the things in FMJ due to our wonderful litigious society with the asshats at the ACLU.  They couldn't hit us or call us faggots (maggots has been used at least since my dad's time as an alternative).  Again it was a different time.  We had two shitbirds in my group (now just called fatbodies) but one actually washed out thankfully.  I had experience as a Boy Scout, so it was really like a Mean Crazy Summer Camp with a Gun for me.  I had always been into the military so I had read many things previously that I got to actually touch.  I had also done JROTC in highschool so drills weren't a problem.  I'm pretty bright, but those things always mess me up so I'm glad I had practice lol.  As I mentioned before I was pretty much there for a career with rank boosts from Eagle Scout and JROTC.  I got my knowledge, served my time happily and met many great friends I still have today.  There is something about the military, when you are doing things in a routine fashion that many folks never ever get to do, that you take a step back and say "Holy cow.  Me and these 23 other assholes just changed X event from changing the WORLD."
> 
> So yeah for the time period it is spot on.  I emailed the 10 mins of boot camp to dad after he got retired from his job from a stroke.  He called me all choked up, but he was talking about going out and finishing the roof of the house.  Mom later said he had watched it several times in a row and had of course forwarded it to everyone on his email list- but it was the catalyst for getting him back to normal awesome guy again   I'm glad to say that he is completely recovered and enjoys his Saturdays with his granddaughter and he is STILL "Dead Eye Atticus" if any of ya are a lil read up   This is my account some first hand, some not, hope it helps someone.  Thanks for reading



Outstanding!  Thank you for posting this.


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## Zona

Trajan said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> elvis3577 said:
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> 
> 
> when were you in bootcamp?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1979.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No shit, me too, P.I.,  platoon 2019...."Senior drill instructor Staff Sgt. Bayless"...still rolls off the tongue like it was yesterday.....
Click to expand...


84..Chief Petty Officer Bowles.  C154 Orlando Fla.  Isnt it funny how some things, you never forget..


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## Obamerican

SSgt Judsen 1970

The man DID NOT sweat when running in 100+ degree weather. Amazing. AND he was Kennedy's honor guard at the President's funeral! Amazing man.


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## Toome

As an officer, I did not go through a "boot camp."  However, I was young and dumb enough to volunteer for RANGER School, and whenever I have nightmares, I see a RANGER Instructor named "Swackhammer."

Ranger Class 10-81:  "Our souls are sold to the Black and Gold!  RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!"


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