# Democracy In Egypt Is Bad For The United States



## mudwhistle (Feb 10, 2011)

Let's face it. They hate us. No election in any Middle Eastern country is going to put in place a government that is friendly to our country or our primary ally, Israel. 

It also doesn't help that Obama has been actively running this revolution from the White House. They don't want to give the impression this is an American operation but it's getting harder and harder to hide the fact. Guess it just depends on what people are willing to believe. 

What's the difference between the kind of government takeover and regime-building Bush did in Iraq and Obama is doing in Egypt? 

Why is Egypt of more strategic importance then Iraq is?

We've got some serious idiots currently running our government and we're powerless to stop them from screwing the pooch. What they're doing today will effect our lives for decades to come. It could mean the deaths of thousands of Israelis.


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## rdean (Feb 10, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Let's face it. They hate us. No election in any Middle Eastern country is going to put in place a government that is friendly to our country or our primary ally, Israel.
> 
> It also doesn't help that Obama has been actively running this revolution from the White House. They don't want to give the impression this is an American operation but it's getting harder and harder to hide the fact. Guess it just depends on what people are willing to believe.
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> ...



Obama didn't bomb the hell out of Egypt, lie to the American people and stand idly by as a million Christians were murdered or chased out of their homeland.

And you have the nerve to ask, "What's the difference"?

Ask the more than 40 thousand maimed Americans who made it out of Iraq.  They'll tell you.


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## Flopper (Feb 10, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Let's face it. They hate us. No election in any Middle Eastern country is going to put in place a government that is friendly to our country or our primary ally, Israel.
> 
> It also doesn't help that Obama has been actively running this revolution from the White House. They don't want to give the impression this is an American operation but it's getting harder and harder to hide the fact. Guess it just depends on what people are willing to believe.
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For years we have proclaimed that we support democracy throughout the world.  But what if those new democracies oppose the US?  It has always been assumed that any country with a democratic government would be friendly with US.  We may just have to change our propaganda.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 10, 2011)

rdean said:


> mudwhistle said:
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> > Let's face it. They hate us. No election in any Middle Eastern country is going to put in place a government that is friendly to our country or our primary ally, Israel.
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I guess sneaking around undermining Mubarak, overseeing the death of at least 280 Egyptians so far, and eventually causing chaos and death in the entire region is better. We have to worry about the 10th largest Army in the world falling into the hands of radical Muslims. All of the arms and training for decades going over to our enemies. The millions of dead that this bullshit will result in. 

But Iraq is not a threat, Egypt is. Oh, and FYI, Obama has stood idle while thousands of Christians have been murdered in Iraq since he became President. Must I post all of the links to the attacks? No. You wouldn't read them anyway.

Nope, that's not as bad as bombing the shit out of them and controlling the situation on the ground. (Sarcasm intended)


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## rdean (Feb 10, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


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What exactly is Obama going to do in Iraq?  The Republicans already put an extreme right wing Islamic theocracy in place.  Should Obama bomb the hell out of Iraq a second time?  And then what?

Some messes can't be fixed.  

Nice to see you support a dictator in Egypt.  Not sure why it's Obama's fault, but if you say so.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Feb 10, 2011)

Who runs Egypt is not our decision


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## uptownlivin90 (Feb 10, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Let's face it. They hate us. No election in any Middle Eastern country is going to put in place a government that is friendly to our country or our primary ally, Israel.



We supported democracy in Iran.

Remember McCain telling Obama that he needs to do more to support the Iranian uprising last year?

THEN Obama wanted to stay out of it and let the situation play-out without US interference. NOW he's pushing Mubarak out with both feet. Neither side in this nation knows what it wants when it comes to democracy in the Middle East, so why not leave it alone and let the Middle East be the Middle East.



mudwhistle said:


> It also doesn't help that Obama has been actively running this revolution from the White House. They don't want to give the impression this is an American operation but it's getting harder and harder to hide the fact. Guess it just depends on what people are willing to believe.
> 
> What's the difference between the kind of government takeover and regime-building Bush did in Iraq and Obama is doing in Egypt?



Are you asking what is the difference between Bush's policy on Iraq and Obama's policy on Egypt? Seriously? If you were to ask what the difference between Obama and Bush's policy on Iraq, I'd say barely anything.

But come on. We are not nation building in Egypt. We are not occupying Egypt. We don't have a right to stop people from ousting their own President. That's their business. 




mudwhistle said:


> We've got some serious idiots currently running our government and we're powerless to stop them from screwing the pooch. What they're doing today will effect our lives for decades to come. *It could mean the deaths of thousands of Israelis*.



Seriously we don't have a CLUE who will be running Egypt over the next few years and you already are declaring the death of Israel and blaming it on Obama. That's fucking rediculous. Mubarak can clamp down power now, but what good will it do to have angered the protestors even more? I would love to see a stable Egypt, but I sympathize greatly with those who just can't sit under Mubarak's dictatorship anymore. Americans wouldn't take a 30 year dictatorship or a three year dictatorship, or a two day dictatorship. So why should Egyptians?


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## uptownlivin90 (Feb 10, 2011)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Who runs Egypt is not our decision



Exactly.


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## Old Rocks (Feb 10, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


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You dumb ass. Mubarak undermined Mubarak. This is the logical outcome for a dictator. Just because he is our SOB doesn't make him any less of an SOB.

As for the rest of you ass licking of dictators, we see where your politics lie.


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## gekaap (Feb 10, 2011)

rdean said:


> and stand idly by as a million Christians were murdered or chased out of their homeland.



Why are Christians so special that we should care about them especially?


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## Flopper (Feb 10, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


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It seems like anytime we stick our nose where it doesn't belong, which is certainly the case here, we get it bloodied.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 11, 2011)

rdean said:


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I'm gonna go with what I can prove so far. 

Mubarak gave a speech yesterday saying that he was willing to listen to the youth of Egypt, but not some foreign power telling him what to do. He meant those assholes in the White House telling him repeatedly to leave "Now". 

So in effect, Obama's big mouth assured that a foreign president with a huge amount of personal pride would refuse to leave office, which most likely will result in even more violence today. The amateurish manner in which they've handled this matter is glaring. *Everyone in the world is watching*. What we get from Obama is nice sounding useless speeches and ham-bone stupidity in almost every facet of their administration. He is quickly losing any respect we had in the world that was left. Nobody trusts the United States of America anymore.

I don't support a dictator because he's a dictator, but I'd support him over a bunch of Muslim radicals bent on erasing the peace treaty that has been in effect between Israel and Egypt for over 30 years. I'd rather have peace then all out war.

What part of that don't you understand???


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## mudwhistle (Feb 11, 2011)

gekaap said:


> rdean said:
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Why should we care about any religious or ethnic group for that matter?

It's pretty clear what makes you tick. 

You're a bigot. Back in the 50s racism was popular. Now hatred toward Christians is very popular and you're just in it because you think you can get away with it.

You're despicable.


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## Mr. Shaman (Feb 11, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Let's face it. They hate us. No election in any Middle Eastern country is going to put in place a government that is friendly to our country or our primary ally, Israel.
> 
> It also doesn't help that Obama has been *actively running this revolution from the White House*. They don't want to give the impression this is an American operation but it's getting harder and harder to hide the fact. *Guess it just depends on what people are willing to believe*.


.....And, which nut-job is leading-you-around, by the nose..... 

​


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## mudwhistle (Feb 11, 2011)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Who runs Egypt is not our decision



Yeah, that's the spineless tact we took when the same thing happened in Gaza, Tunisia, Lebanon, and Iran. 

How many are dead because of it?????


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## mudwhistle (Feb 11, 2011)

uptownlivin90 said:


> mudwhistle said:
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> > Let's face it. They hate us. No election in any Middle Eastern country is going to put in place a government that is friendly to our country or our primary ally, Israel.
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Mubarak blamed it on Obama. 

Did you even know up until 20 days ago that Egypt was such a mess??? Did you know who the Muslim Brotherhood was before then???

Aren't you uncomfortable with our president being so friendly with the Muslim Brotherhood??? Isn't it a problem to you that Obama has taken such an active role in the Egyptian revolution?????

Don't you question anything??????


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## Mr. Shaman (Feb 11, 2011)

Flopper said:


> mudwhistle said:
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> > Let's face it. They hate us. No election in any Middle Eastern country is going to put in place a government that is friendly to our country or our primary ally, Israel.
> ...



....And, any Country, that _would be friendly with U.S._, would (almost) *have* to be a democracy, right?? 

Yeah.....long-term....that surely could save us a _few_ (national-security) *buck$*.....​


> *January 26, 1999*​
> "One grieving villager uncovered the headless corpse of his 65-year-old brother. "Jesus Christ," exclaimed a distressed U.S. diplomat as he picked his way past blood-soaked massacre victims in Racak, a tiny village 18 miles southwest of Kosovo's capital of Pristina.
> 
> "At least let's give him the dignity of covering him up," said the diplomat, U.S. Ambassador William Walker. Beyond shock, the bespectacled diplomat, with thinning red hair and a wispy moustache, barely could contain his fury.
> ...


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## Mr. Shaman (Feb 11, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


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Yeah.....you wouldn't want to get *too* specific about our history with Iraq, right, Mudd-Butt??






> *U.S. and British Support for Hussein Regime*​


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## FA_Q2 (Feb 11, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Let's face it. They hate us. No election in any Middle Eastern country is going to put in place a government that is friendly to our country or our primary ally, Israel.
> 
> It also doesn't help that Obama has been actively running this revolution from the White House. They don't want to give the impression this is an American operation but it's getting harder and harder to hide the fact. Guess it just depends on what people are willing to believe.
> 
> ...



Really mud?  This is sad.  We have no right whatsoever to enslave a people.  We have no right to enforce a government that we do not agree with on a people that are disposing of it.  We are not an empire and we should not strive for that position.  While we have great influence around the world with governments there is absolutely zero reason that I can think of that would ever give us the right to go in a stop an uprising of the PEOPLE to dispose of their government.  This is a right that I believe you hold dear for Americans.  Why do the Egyptians not have this right and why are you so willing to take it away from them?  You do not have a crystal ball either and do not know what the final makeup of this new government is going to be.  I noticed that you never mentioned the fact that the Muslim Brotherhood is no more than 20% of the people.  It is highly unlikely that they can wield enough political power to bring about an anti Israeli government into power.  Whatever government comes to power, we still have the ability to deal with them as before, just less influence.  

It is telling how you could criticize Obama for Iran and do the same in one breath of his treatment of Egypt.


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## Intense (Feb 11, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


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Our Administration is interfering with an Internal Problem in Egypt in a way that will most likely bring mass slaughter, and end in more Totalitarian Government sponsored by the Muslim Brotherhood. Assholes on this board that want to justify Incitement to Riot and Anarchy, claiming it is Democracy, all the time leading the people to slaughter is a disgrace. You are interfering with a process that is already bringing change. What is your trip??? It is not fast enough? Why are you leading, rather than supporting? Why are you Exciting, rather than encouraging pause and reason? Is this the path Thoreau, Martin Luther King, or Gandhi would have chosen??? Egypt is being played, to what end??? What is not Totalitarian about the Muslim Brotherhood??? You could not be more wrong in what you do.


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## Intense (Feb 11, 2011)

FA_Q2 said:


> mudwhistle said:
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You are as blind as Obama. We are not obstructing Anything by not contributing to Riot and Anarchy. We are not enslaving by encouraging reason and Patience. You drank the Kool-Aid, didn't you. Obama Playing Caliphate? Is Egypt one of the 57 States???


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## LadyGunSlinger (Feb 11, 2011)

Intense said:


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qft!


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## LadyGunSlinger (Feb 11, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


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It's frightening how brainwashed the Obama lemmings are. I can't imagine walking lock-step with anything much less a political regime. The Obama Administration had talks with the Muslim Brotherhood beginning a year ago, plotting the downfall of Mubarak. What bother's me is that the left thinks anything is justified that this man does. Stabbing an ally in the back, consorting with a group who has direct links to terror, while at the same time placing American troops in harms way is a HUGE RED FLAG.


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## idb (Feb 11, 2011)

Flopper said:


> mudwhistle said:
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A belated congratulations to Hamas in Palestine.
Democracy at work is a beautiful thing.


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## FA_Q2 (Feb 11, 2011)

Intense said:


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What, exactly, did you think I was trying to say here?


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## idb (Feb 11, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Let's face it. They hate us. No election in any Middle Eastern country is going to put in place a government that is friendly to our country or our primary ally, Israel.


And why do you think that is?
What a total mess the USA and Israel have made in their relations with Arab countries.
You might have thought that Israel, especially, would have thought it prudent to try to be friends with their neighbours.


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## NYcarbineer (Feb 11, 2011)

Remember when the consensus on the Right was support for Bush and his war in Iraq?

Remember when we were told that the war in Iraq would serve to spread democracy throughout the Middle East?

Remember when those of us who opposed the war were mocked and ridiculed for being skeptical of such nonsense?

Well look who's stupid now.


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## idb (Feb 11, 2011)

NYcarbineer said:


> Remember when the consensus on the Right was support for Bush and his war in Iraq?
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> Remember when we were told that the war in Iraq would serve to spread democracy throughout the Middle East?
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It's a bit early to be smug.
Just wait until they find those WMDs!!!


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## NYcarbineer (Feb 11, 2011)

Intense said:


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ANYTHING to oppose Obama.  You should be ashamed of yourself for making such a stupid post.


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## NYcarbineer (Feb 11, 2011)

idb said:


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Yep.  After the WMD's went the way of unicorns and the Tooth Fairy, the replacement rationale for the war was 'liberating' the Iraqi people and spreading 'democracy' throughout the ME.

Now, the pro-war Right is deciding THAT idea is some dangerous crazy notion thought up by the Obama administration in the last 2 weeks, and is going to destroy the world.


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## NYcarbineer (Feb 11, 2011)

I guess the best irony of this sudden rightwing love of tyranny for the sake of expediency is 

that for the last 2 years we've had to listen to the teabagger crowd, cut from the same cloth, 

railing against supposed 'tyranny' HERE and invoking the Declaration of Independence and all other manner of founding father's justification for revolt, armed rebellion, insurrection, 

and secession.

Now they've suddenly decided they're BFF's with Mubarak and every other autocrat in the ME,

as long as it lets them OPPOSE OBAMA.

Pathetic.


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## LadyGunSlinger (Feb 11, 2011)

NYcarbineer said:


> Remember when the consensus on the Right was support for Bush and his war in Iraq?
> 
> Remember when we were told that the war in Iraq would serve to spread democracy throughout the Middle East?
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Remember when Obama said he would close Gitmo?

Remember when Obama said he would bring US troops home?

Remember when Obama said he would put a bill on the Whitehouse.gov site 5 days prior to any votes or signing of the bill?

Where are all the war protesters? I'm guessing since you opposed the war in Iraq you're out there with your little painted sign, protesting an increased troop level in Afghanistan after all we wouldn't want you to look like a big fat hyopcrite, would we?


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## NYcarbineer (Feb 11, 2011)

LadyGunSlinger said:


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Quit trying to change the subject.

I opposed the troop escalation in Afghanistan and am on record on this forum having done so.

Did you support the Iraq war?  Did you support the spreading of democracy via the Iraq war?


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## LadyGunSlinger (Feb 11, 2011)

NYcarbineer said:


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LMFAO!!! Change the subject??!! You were the one who brought up how you were heckled for opposing the war in Iraq. I don't see you or any of your comrades out with signs opposing DingleBarry's war in Afghanistan?! What I find amazing is the same people who are now wailing and frothing at the mouth over Egypt and democracy, HAMMERED Booooooooooooosh on Iraqi's and their right to freedom. Can you say HYPOCRITE?!


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## NYcarbineer (Feb 11, 2011)

Intense said:


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It's funny that you had an entirely different attitude when you were supporting and justifying 4000+ Americans getting killed in Iraq:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/3019459-post55.html

So I guess encouraging 'reason and patience' THEN didn't have as much charm for you.  I guess getting 4000+ Americans needlessly killed was more appealing then, 

maybe because Obama wasn't president then?


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## LadyGunSlinger (Feb 11, 2011)

NYcarbineer said:


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Post where I justified the deaths of Americans?? DO IT. SO much for your truthfulness Carb. Is that all you have? To make up shit in order to deflect the nasty truth of your own hypocrisy??


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## Dr.Drock (Feb 11, 2011)

The Mubarak lovers needn't worry.  We'll still have our brains taxed out in order to buy off the next foreign leaders, just like you want.

One puppet will replace another, my paycheck will be less in order to give the next puppet money and those of you who think we should put in extra hours of work to pay for Israel's nukes, missiles and biological weapons will get your wish.


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## uscitizen (Feb 11, 2011)

gekaap said:


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Christians have a homeland?


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## Truthmatters (Feb 11, 2011)

If you believe in democracy than there is no choice but to believe in democracy.

It is the best form of government there is.

You should support it for ANY human beings on the planet.

Democracy changes countries.

Free open expression of ideas changes countries and people.


It is the ONLY hope for peace in the midEast or anywhere


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## NYcarbineer (Feb 11, 2011)

LadyGunSlinger said:


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that post wasn't directed at you, you daft cow.


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## BlindBoo (Feb 11, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Let's face it. They hate us. No election in any Middle Eastern country is going to put in place a government that is friendly to our country or our primary ally, Israel.
> 
> It also doesn't help that Obama has been actively running this revolution from the White House. They don't want to give the impression this is an American operation but it's getting harder and harder to hide the fact. Guess it just depends on what people are willing to believe.
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"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."



After 70 years of broken Western promises regarding Arab independence, it should not be surprising that the West is viewed with suspicion and hostility by the populations (as opposed to some of the political regimes) of the Middle East.[3] The United States, as the heir to British imperialism in the region, has been a frequent object of suspicion. Since the end of World War II, the United States, like the European colonial powers before it, has been unable to resist becoming entangled in the region's political conflicts. Driven by a desire to keep the vast oil reserves in hands friendly to the United States, a wish to keep out potential rivals (such as the Soviet Union), opposition to neutrality in the cold war, and domestic political considerations, the United States has compiled a record of tragedy in the Middle East.

"Ancient History": U.S. Conduct in the Middle East Since World War II and the Folly of Intervention | Sheldon L. Richman | Cato Institute: Policy Analysis


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## LadyGunSlinger (Feb 11, 2011)

NYcarbineer said:


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Oooo Carb called me a name.... lol  You're a joke.


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## editec (Feb 11, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Let's face it. They hate us. No election in any Middle Eastern country is going to put in place a government that is friendly to our country or our primary ally, Israel.


 
And you tell us this with such conviction based on what, exactly?





> It also doesn't help that Obama has been actively running this revolution from the White House.


 
Yeah, right. Obma is in charge of the crowds in Egypt.

Try again.



> They don't want to give the impression this is an American operation but it's getting harder and harder to hide the fact. Guess it just depends on what people are willing to believe.


 
Do you have the slightest bit of evidence to support this wild claim?

Of course not.


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## LadyGunSlinger (Feb 11, 2011)

When Obama consorts with a group directly tied to terror over the affairs of another nation and publically calls for it's ouster-- it's defending democracy ..

When Boooosh does it, it's a lie and people die. LMAO

Has anyone ever dissected the brain of a liberal?


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## gekaap (Feb 11, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Why should we care about any religious or ethnic group for that matter?
> 
> It's pretty clear what makes you tick.
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I think that people should not be viewed in terms of their religion, and that there should be no special concern for any given religion over another.  I have no hatred toward Christians.  I have a hatred toward discrimination.  If that's what you consider despicable, then you're just projecting.


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## Dr.Traveler (Feb 11, 2011)

I find it hillarious that "Conservatives" are against a strong centralized government... unless its a foreign dictatorship and then it's just awesome.  See the "Conservative" game plan during the Cold War, where the MO was replace a democracy with a dictatorship through CIA operations on days ending in "y".

Perhaps if you all took the time to talk to folks from other countries, or study history, you'd learn that most folks genuinely like Americans, but hate the interventionalist policies of the US Government.  Let's just leave well enough alone.

BTW, if you're posting in this thread in favor of supporting a dictatorship overseas, don't you dare start posting in other places claiming to be a "Small Government Conservative."  I know I'm bookmarking this thread as a wonderful way to out Neo-Cons.


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## Dr.Traveler (Feb 11, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Did you even know up until 20 days ago that Egypt was such a mess??? Did you know who the Muslim Brotherhood was before then???



Yes and yes.  Egypt has been a mess for a good long time, and the Muslim Brotherhood has been the boogeyman Mubarak has appealled to for years in order to shore up US and Israeli support for his regime.

This was coming for a long time.  The folks really pushing for reform are the educated middle class and the college students who decided not to idly stand by while Mubarak set up his son to be the next President for Life.  If the Muslim Brotherhood end up in charge, it'll likely be because Mubarak has been the best publicist the group ever had.


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## uptownlivin90 (Feb 11, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


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That whole region is a mess, and yes I've been well aware of Egypt's economy going down the drain for months and populist anger growing. I couldn't have predicted this though. As for the Muslim Brotherhood, you can really piss off. You're not talking to some rainbow coalition liberal, I'm in no way comfortable with any president being "friendly" with any terrorist organization. I'm also not comfortable with any president being "friendly" with any authoritarian dictatorship that's over-stayed it's welcome.

I don't believe we should take ANY involvement the affairs of Egypt, and I disagree with some of the moves Obama has made, but Mubarak is responsible for HIS OWN downfall.


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## Truthmatters (Feb 11, 2011)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> When Obama consorts with a group directly tied to terror over the affairs of another nation and publically calls for it's ouster-- it's defending democracy ..
> 
> When Boooosh does it, it's a lie and people die. LMAO
> 
> Has anyone ever dissected the brain of a liberal?



Why do you refuse to see this has nothing to do with your political gyrations?

This is about the population of a country rising up and heaving out a dictator.


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## Mr. Peepers (Feb 11, 2011)

The US did NOT want democracy in Iraq either.  The Bush administration was afraid that the Iraqi people would elect someone who would not allow US bases there nor to let multinationals run roughshod over the Iraqi people (the main goal of the US invasion of Iraq was to set up a free market zone in the middle east who would do our bidding and allow multinationals to exploit the area's resources).  We paid lots of money to get our puppet government "elected".  The US doesn't care about anything but profit and power.  It does NOT care one whit about true democracy.

Start on P.361

The shock doctrine: the rise of ... - Google Books


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## The T (Feb 11, 2011)

Truthmatters said:


> LadyGunSlinger said:
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Yeah same thought process about Iran in 1979.

What you fail to see is whom or rather _what_ can and eventually take over.

And they are not friendly toward us at all.


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## georgephillip (Feb 11, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Let's face it. They hate us. No election in any Middle Eastern country is going to put in place a government that is friendly to our country or our primary ally, Israel.
> 
> It also doesn't help that Obama has been actively running this revolution from the White House. They don't want to give the impression this is an American operation but it's getting harder and harder to hide the fact. Guess it just depends on what people are willing to believe.
> 
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*What Does "Leave" Mean?*

"LEtat, Cest moi. (I am the state.)

King Louis XIV of France

Leave means Get out 
Dont you comprehend?
O Suleiman O Suleiman 
You too must leave
Sitting in sitting in          
Till the regime is gone
Revolution revolution until victory
*Revolution in all Egypts streets* 

Chants by *two million Egyptians*, Liberation Square, Feb. 10, 2011.

*It's Not About You.*

*It is about Revolution*


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## uptownlivin90 (Feb 11, 2011)

MUBARAK HAS STEPPED DOWN!!! The military will oversee the nation until September. We should ALL be proud of the human race right now. Peaceful protesters have succeeded in toppling a 30 year long dictatorship.


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## Dr.Traveler (Feb 11, 2011)

The T said:


> Yeah same thought process about Iran in 1979.
> 
> What you fail to see is whom or rather _what_ can and eventually take over.
> 
> And they are not friendly toward us at all.



Iran in 1979 was a mess we started.  Do some research into CIA involvement in Iran.  It's no surprise the average Iranian believes the US and Iran have been at war since the 1950's.

As to the second point, what's the solution?  Invade and install dictatorships all over the world?  Ratchet up taxes and Federal Power to ensure we have the means to support puppet governments all over the world?

Part of being small government and pro-liberty is allowing other people to make their own decisions, even if it doesn't meet your best interest.  Once you decide to tell large groups of people to act along your own best interests, you're no better than those big government Libs you love to hate.


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## Mr. Peepers (Feb 11, 2011)

Woo hoo!  Go Egypt!  Good for you and kudos for the (mostly) peaceful uprising of your citizens in order to rid yourselves of a tyrant.


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## Dr.Traveler (Feb 11, 2011)

Mr. Peepers said:


> Woo hoo!  Go Egypt!  Good for you and kudos for the (mostly) peaceful uprising of your citizens in order to rid yourselves of a tyrant.



I just walked down the hall and told one of my Egyptian students (awesome guy) the news.  You should see the smiles that are breaking out.  The guy had to go.


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## Mr. Peepers (Feb 11, 2011)

> Iran in 1979 was a mess we started. Do some research into CIA involvement in Iran. It's no surprise the average Iranian believes the US and Iran have been at war since the 1950's.



It's funny how the "pro-democracy" corporatist tend to "forget" these little tidbits of history, yes?  They would be wise to pay attention to what we did to help bring the butcher, Pinochet into power as well.  Thanks to Milton Friedman, or "satan" as I like to call him...


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## sangha (Feb 11, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> gekaap said:
> 
> 
> > rdean said:
> ...



Xtians are so sinful, they think it's "racist" is you treat them like everyone else. Xtians think they are "so special". 

Thats why wingnuts hate democracy. In a democracy, xtians don't get "special" treatment.


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## NYcarbineer (Feb 11, 2011)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > LadyGunSlinger said:
> ...



I've seen your picture.  It wasn't a name.  It was a description.


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## georgephillip (Feb 11, 2011)

"...Hosni Mubarak remained defiant, still stubbornly refusing to submit to the will of the people, who were coming out by the millions to demand his ouster.

"A day earlier,(Wed. 2/09/11) the leaders of the revolution called for a major escalation with another round of massive protests scheduled for Friday. 

"Not only did they ask the people to come to Tahrir Square by the millions, but they also planned to march on state symbols around the country.

"By midnight, the buildings of the Council of Ministers, the Peoples Assembly (lower chamber of parliament), the Consultative Assembly (upper chamber), and the Interior Ministry were totally surrounded by thousands of people. 

"Prime Minister Ahmad Shafiq could not reach his office that day and had to relocate to the Ministry of Civilian Aviation."

*Has Mubarak left Cairo or Egypt?*

Egypt's Judgment Day


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## LadyGunSlinger (Feb 11, 2011)

NYcarbineer said:


> LadyGunSlinger said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...




LMAO Unless you're my friend on this site, the only picture you have seen is the one in my sig.. If 112 lbs is a cow, color me guilty. Pathetic.


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## NYcarbineer (Feb 11, 2011)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > LadyGunSlinger said:
> ...



How did you weigh your ass separately?  I didn't know that could be done.  Must be new technology.


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## Jackson (Feb 11, 2011)

Just imagining how they Egyptians must feel! The past 17 days were the first time they were free to talk in public how they felt about the governemnt a had afeeling of freedom.  Now their efforts have paid off and they are hopefully on their way to a democracy.

The reality will set in when they are faced with the questions on how they get there, candidates, voting procedures and even a constitution.  But until then,  Let them have their celebrations.  They worked hard for it.

I am so happy for them.  And how it done so peacefully!


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## LadyGunSlinger (Feb 11, 2011)

NYcarbineer said:


> LadyGunSlinger said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...




Oh look, another liberal trashing women. How cute  I've been transported in to a bad episode of Hannah Montana where goobs actually think their 2nd grade taunts make a difference.


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## NYcarbineer (Feb 11, 2011)

Tyranny.

The Right's new boyfriend.


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## Truthmatters (Feb 11, 2011)

NYcarbineer said:


> LadyGunSlinger said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



Aww come on, She looks a  cute kid.


She just doesnt seem to absorb facts


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## NYcarbineer (Feb 11, 2011)

The T said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > LadyGunSlinger said:
> ...



Mr. T converts to Statism???

Stop the presses!


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## The T (Feb 11, 2011)

NYcarbineer said:


> Tyranny.
> 
> The Right's new boyfriend.


 
Since when did the right start liking Obama, Statists, and their damaging policies?


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## NYcarbineer (Feb 11, 2011)

Truthmatters said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > LadyGunSlinger said:
> ...



She's on the Limbaugh/Hannity talking points diet.  She hasn't had an intelligent, original thought for the 5 years I've endured her prattle.


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## Truthmatters (Feb 11, 2011)

Anyone who thinks this is bad for the world doesnt really believe in Democracy


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## NYcarbineer (Feb 11, 2011)

The T said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Tyranny.
> ...



You liked Bush when he was starting wars to spread DEMOCRACY in the Middle East.


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## Mr. Peepers (Feb 11, 2011)

> Since when did the right start liking Obama, Statists, and their damaging policies?



Truthfully, that more accurately describes the previous administration.  Tyranny, that is...


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## Dr.Traveler (Feb 11, 2011)

NYcarbineer said:


> LadyGunSlinger said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



Dude, no need to get that personal.  Calm down.

And she's a Green Bay fan, so she can't be that terrible of a person.


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## Truthmatters (Feb 11, 2011)

NYcarbineer said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



Very likely but she is a cute kid.

Kids can learn if they deside to accept cold hard facts.

She is studing sceince and has to at some point believe in its high level of proof.


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## Truthmatters (Feb 11, 2011)

Dr.Traveler said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > LadyGunSlinger said:
> ...



I wonder what she thinks of its ownership?


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## Sallow (Feb 11, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> What's the difference between the kind of government takeover and regime-building Bush did in Iraq and Obama is doing in Egypt?
> .



You're kidding.


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## NYcarbineer (Feb 11, 2011)

Dr.Traveler said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > LadyGunSlinger said:
> ...



She wanted to make it personal.  Now it's personal.


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## Truthmatters (Feb 11, 2011)

I wonder if the cons on here would react the same way when the American people insisted on freedom?


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## LadyGunSlinger (Feb 11, 2011)

Dr.Traveler said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > LadyGunSlinger said:
> ...



 ;-) Damn right I am.- That was an awesome game!


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## LadyGunSlinger (Feb 11, 2011)

NYcarbineer said:


> Dr.Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...





Ooooooo Carb is pissed. LOL Spew, froth and foam at the mouth. I couldn't care less~


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## Dr.Traveler (Feb 11, 2011)

The T said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Tyranny.
> ...



There's a direct throughline to supporting Dictatorships overseas, and ending up with one at home.

Let's say for a second that the US decides that the best way to fight Islamic Extremism is to install puppet dictators in any country where democracy could translate into Extremist control.  To do that, you'll at the very least end up running covert ops in that country to smooth the way for your dictator.  You'll have to arm him, and you'll have to provide him the resources to stay in power.  You'll probably have to run cover for him in the US and World press not to mention provide political cover all over the world for him.

Now, that will all cost money and require coordination.  The more dictators you support, the more it will cost.  The longer they endure, the more they cost as corruption and public anger rise.

To pay for that, you'll need tax revenue, which requires a larger Federal Government to collect that money.  Coordinating support in the Press and on the world stage requires expanded Federal power to ensure you have the resources and national will necessary.

That's why it is incompatible to advocate interferring in another country's right to self determination while at the same time advocating small government here at home.  Your stance on other nations requires a large government to implement.


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## Dr.Traveler (Feb 11, 2011)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> Dr.Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



Yes, yes it was.  And for the record, I'm considering putting my daughter on the Season ticket list.  She's supposed to enter the world in March, so there's a chance she could end up with tickets in what, 30 years or so


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## NYcarbineer (Feb 11, 2011)

It's always different when it's YOUR guy:

1.  *June 2004 - Bush asks NATO to spread democracy in Middle East.*

2. * Feb. 2004 - During Sundays hour-long interview with Tim Russert of Meet the Press, President Bush emphasized his determination to spread freedom and democracy throughout the Middle East*

2.  *Mar. 2005 - Bush: Democracy Is On The March  Cites Progress In Middle East*

4.  *Nov. 2003 - Bush vows decades of war for democracy in the Middle East*

And on and on and on it went.

Case closed, you phoney hypocritical partisan hack fucks.


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## Truthmatters (Feb 11, 2011)

How very sad that some care more for party than the ideals of freedom


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## LadyGunSlinger (Feb 11, 2011)

Dr.Traveler said:


> LadyGunSlinger said:
> 
> 
> > Dr.Traveler said:
> ...





Awww, congrats to you Doc on the wonderful blessing of a daughter! Here's to a healthy and safe birth! *hug


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## mudwhistle (Feb 11, 2011)

Truthmatters said:


> I wonder if the cons on here would react the same way when the American people insisted on freedom?



If it means getting rid of Obama, I'd be the first to go out there with a towel wrapped around my head. 

Workers of the world unite.


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## The T (Feb 11, 2011)

Dr.Traveler said:


> The T said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...


 
Thanks for the input.


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## LibocalypseNow (Feb 11, 2011)

Well said. Lets take our money and spend it right here at home. It's very clear that Anti-American forces will be seizing control of Egypt in the near future. That's just reality. We should no longer fund Egypt's Government. Egypt is for Egyptians. Time to take our money & troops from the entire Middle East and bring them back home where they belong. This is a perfect opportunity for our nation to change its Foreign Policy. Let Egypt sort out their own affairs. Aggressive Foreign Interventionism should become a thing of the past for our nation. I do wish the Egyptians well but it's time for us to end our involvement with their Governments.


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## LibocalypseNow (Feb 11, 2011)

This is where the Socialists and Neocons are always wrong. Democracy does not always = Pro-America. Both parties have pushed an aggressive Foreign Interventionist Foreign Policy on us for many many years. We need a more neutral Foreign Policy. Unfortunately our politicians always feel they need to pick a side in every conflict on this Earth. So we become the World Referee & World Policeman everywhere. 

This Foreign Policy will always be a Lose/Lose proposition for us. In the end it will always be America's fault. Who do you think Egyptians will blame when or if their new Government is a miserable failure? Do you really believe they'll blame themselves? No,they'll just blame that "Evil America" again. We're just a convenient whipping-boy at this point. But this is our own fault. We need revolutionary changes in our Foreign Policy. Unfortunately i don't think either political party is prepared to make these changes. Meddling is just what we do. It's very sad.


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## Dr.Drock (Feb 11, 2011)

LibocalypseNow said:


> Well said. Lets take our money and spend it right here at home. It's very clear that Anti-American forces will be seizing control of Egypt in the near future. That's just reality. We should no longer fund Egypt's Government. Egypt is for Egyptians. Time to take our money & troops from the entire Middle East and bring them back home where they belong. This is a perfect opportunity for our nation to change its Foreign Policy. Let Egypt sort out their own affairs. Aggressive Foreign Interventionism should become a thing of the past for our nation. I do wish the Egyptians well but it's time for us to end our involvement with their Governments.



Well said, and let's not have our presidents waste time giving speeches on the issue, pointlessly riles up people home and abroad.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 11, 2011)

Truthmatters said:


> How very sad that some care more for party than the ideals of freedom



Freedom is not what we're seeing take root in Egypt. 

It's the forces of chaos and the mob with the help of communists and radical Islamic fundimentalists. 

You did see them praying to Allah, didn't you???

I did. 

I hope it turns out well but I seriously doubt it.


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## Papples (Feb 11, 2011)

Whether or not democracy in Egypt is bad for the US or not (and I don't believe that it will be, long term) is irrelevant.  They have the right to determine their own future.  We are hypocrites if we interfere, regardless of our reasoning.


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## LibocalypseNow (Feb 11, 2011)

Dr.Drock said:


> LibocalypseNow said:
> 
> 
> > Well said. Lets take our money and spend it right here at home. It's very clear that Anti-American forces will be seizing control of Egypt in the near future. That's just reality. We should no longer fund Egypt's Government. Egypt is for Egyptians. Time to take our money & troops from the entire Middle East and bring them back home where they belong. This is a perfect opportunity for our nation to change its Foreign Policy. Let Egypt sort out their own affairs. Aggressive Foreign Interventionism should become a thing of the past for our nation. I do wish the Egyptians well but it's time for us to end our involvement with their Governments.
> ...



Yes and people are kidding themselves if they think we're not still interfering over there. We simply threw Mubarak under the bus when we thought it was convenient to do so. Now it's time to pay off the new Egyptian Government. Nothing has changed. Bet on that.


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## kiwiman127 (Feb 11, 2011)

LibocalypseNow said:


> Well said. Lets take our money and spend it right here at home. *It's very clear that Anti-American forces will be seizing control of Egypt *in the near future. That's just reality. We should no longer fund Egypt's Government. Egypt is for Egyptians. Time to take our money & troops from the entire Middle East and bring them back home where they belong. This is a perfect opportunity for our nation to change its Foreign Policy. Let Egypt sort out their own affairs. Aggressive Foreign Interventionism should become a thing of the past for our nation. I do wish the Egyptians well but it's time for us to end our involvement with their Governments.



I wouldn't be so sure.
The Egyptian Army is who it really seems, controls Egypt.  Most of the upper tier of the military leaders in the Egyptian military have been trained in the US and have close ties with the US, in particular the Pentagon.  Again as military men, they love the "toys' the US has provided them.  Why would they want to allow circumstances, that would weaken their hand?
Just a little food for thought.


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## Dr.Drock (Feb 11, 2011)

LibocalypseNow said:


> Dr.Drock said:
> 
> 
> > LibocalypseNow said:
> ...



Trust me if Vegas gave me odds on that bet I'd be emptying my account right now.


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## konradv (Feb 11, 2011)

kiwiman127 said:


> LibocalypseNow said:
> 
> 
> > Well said. Lets take our money and spend it right here at home. *It's very clear that Anti-American forces will be seizing control of Egypt *in the near future. That's just reality. We should no longer fund Egypt's Government. Egypt is for Egyptians. Time to take our money & troops from the entire Middle East and bring them back home where they belong. This is a perfect opportunity for our nation to change its Foreign Policy. Let Egypt sort out their own affairs. Aggressive Foreign Interventionism should become a thing of the past for our nation. I do wish the Egyptians well but it's time for us to end our involvement with their Governments.
> ...



Keeping my fingers crossed that they'll hold legitimate elections, then let the chips fall where they may.  We can only have so much influence without damaging the chances of those we favor.


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## LibocalypseNow (Feb 11, 2011)

kiwiman127 said:


> LibocalypseNow said:
> 
> 
> > Well said. Lets take our money and spend it right here at home. *It's very clear that Anti-American forces will be seizing control of Egypt *in the near future. That's just reality. We should no longer fund Egypt's Government. Egypt is for Egyptians. Time to take our money & troops from the entire Middle East and bring them back home where they belong. This is a perfect opportunity for our nation to change its Foreign Policy. Let Egypt sort out their own affairs. Aggressive Foreign Interventionism should become a thing of the past for our nation. I do wish the Egyptians well but it's time for us to end our involvement with their Governments.
> ...



Good point. Just one more reason to blame "Evil America" when or if their new Government fails. We're just setting ourselves up for failure once again. We need to end funding for the Egyptian Government. When things go bad again over there,who do you the Egyptian People are going to blame? Foreign Aid needs to be reassessed for many other nations as well. If the Military runs things over there,will they really be a Democracy? See,either way we lose. Aggressive Foreign Interventionism just doesn't work in the end.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 11, 2011)

Papples said:


> Whether or not democracy in Egypt is bad for the US or not (and I don't believe that it will be, long term) is irrelevant.  They have the right to determine their own future.  We are hypocrites if we interfere, regardless of our reasoning.



We already have been.  

The White House was instigating this revolution. 

Guess you weren't paying attention. 

A lot of people in the Middle East are pissed about it too.


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## The T (Feb 11, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Papples said:
> 
> 
> > Whether or not democracy in Egypt is bad for the US or not (and I don't believe that it will be, long term) is irrelevant. They have the right to determine their own future. We are hypocrites if we interfere, regardless of our reasoning.
> ...


 
Should Jordan be worried that they might be next?


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## kiwiman127 (Feb 11, 2011)

LibocalypseNow said:


> kiwiman127 said:
> 
> 
> > LibocalypseNow said:
> ...



I don't think we really know how this will play out.
I do know that the Egyptian military was part of the effort to hold down the Muslim Brotherhood during Mubaraks reign and like I said they are fairly close to the US military leadership.  But where Egypt is now, who knows what the next direction the country goes?
I just think it's way to early to push the panic button and it would be wise not to listen to the pundits, who themselves are just guessing,


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## LibocalypseNow (Feb 11, 2011)

No matter what you think about this Egyptian Revolt,you would have to admit we sure did throw Mubarak under the bus. 30yrs of helping us out yet it only took us 18 days to completely sell him out. I don't think that reflects too well on us.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 11, 2011)

rdean said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Let's face it. They hate us. No election in any Middle Eastern country is going to put in place a government that is friendly to our country or our primary ally, Israel.
> ...



but he's bombing the hell out of afghanistan, dean I realize you think republicans are evil. But I have been through a Islimic country revolt, and 33 years later you see what we have in Iran. Now who do you blame for Iran?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 11, 2011)

LibocalypseNow said:


> No matter what you think about this Egyptian Revolt,you would have to admit we sure did throw Mubarak under the bus. 30yrs of helping us out yet it only took us 18 days to completely sell him out. I don't think that reflects too well on us.



No it doesn't not with any of our middle eastern allies.


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## The T (Feb 11, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...


 
Republicans made Jimmah do it...or didn't you get the memo?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 11, 2011)

The T said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > rdean said:
> ...



I'm learning still can I have a crave?


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## grunt11b (Feb 11, 2011)

There wont be any democracy in Egypt, why do you think Obama openly supported Mubarak stepping down? It's about putting in place the muslim brotherhood and shutting down the Suez canal. 
 Like I have said before, it's all about green energy, all you have to do is look at the signs, Obama emplaced a drilling moratorium for the united states, and now this shit happens in Egypt where the brotherhood will shut the Suez canal down "We get about 40% of our oil through that canal". It's all about making fossil fuels so expensive that people will break and buy green energy products in which assholes like al gore have invested billions in and stand to make trillions from. Wake up people, open your damn eyes already. 
 And in case you have not realized it yet, when fuel prices go up, grocery prices go up with it, the cost of delivery, everything that has to do with anything that is delivery goes up. It will ultimately cripple us. This coupled with the cost of the new Obama care bill will be devastating to America and our way of life. How's this hope and change working out for you?


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## Political Junky (Feb 11, 2011)

Turkey is a parliamentary republic which happens to be Muslim. They seem to be moving along very nicely.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 11, 2011)

grunt11b said:


> There wont be any democracy in Egypt, why do you think Obama openly supported Mubarak stepping down? It's about putting in place the muslim brotherhood and shutting down the Suez canal.
> Like I have said before, it's all about green energy, all you have to do is look at the signs, Obama emplaced a drilling moratorium for the united states, and now this shit happens in Egypt where the brotherhood will shut the Suez canal down "We get about 40% of our oil through that canal". It's all about making fossil fuels so expensive that people will break and buy green energy products in which assholes like al gore have invested billions in and stand to make trillions from. Wake up people, open your damn eyes already.
> And in case you have not realized it yet, when fuel prices go up, grocery prices go up with it, the cost of delivery, everything that has to do with anything that is delivery goes up. It will ultimately cripple us. This coupled with the cost of the new Obama care bill will be devastating to America and our way of life. How's this hope and change working out for you?



exactly


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 11, 2011)

Political Junky said:


> Turkey is a parliamentary republic which happens to be Muslim. They seem to be moving along very nicely.



Turkey's government will be the next obama victim under the bus. Old friends will be forgotten and our enenies will still hate us.


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## grunt11b (Feb 11, 2011)

This has been a plan that has been emplaced for over 100 years, starting with the creation of the Fed, which was signed into law by Woodrow Wilson "A progressive democrat I might add". 
 Enjoy your hope and change, you get what you vote for.


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## grunt11b (Feb 11, 2011)

Political Junky said:


> Turkey is a parliamentary republic which happens to be Muslim. They seem to be moving along very nicely.



Yeah,unless your an American walking by, then they chase you with knives wanting to kill you. Trust me, I know, I have been there.


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## The T (Feb 11, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> The T said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


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## The T (Feb 11, 2011)

grunt11b said:


> There wont be any democracy in Egypt, why do you think Obama openly supported Mubarak stepping down? It's about putting in place the muslim brotherhood and shutting down the Suez canal.
> Like I have said before, it's all about green energy, all you have to do is look at the signs, Obama emplaced a drilling moratorium for the united states, and now this shit happens in Egypt where the brotherhood will shut the Suez canal down "We get about 40% of our oil through that canal". It's all about making fossil fuels so expensive that people will break and buy green energy products in which assholes like al gore have invested billions in and stand to make trillions from. Wake up people, open your damn eyes already.
> And in case you have not realized it yet, when fuel prices go up, grocery prices go up with it, the cost of delivery, everything that has to do with anything that is delivery goes up. It will ultimately cripple us. This coupled with the cost of the new Obama care bill will be devastating to America and our way of life. How's this hope and change working out for you?


 
Yep The residuals will haunt us for some time.


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## LibocalypseNow (Feb 11, 2011)

The guy really did stick his neck out for us for 30yrs over there. And in return we gave him just 18 Days to completely sell him out. Can the U.S. Government ever be trusted again?


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## The T (Feb 11, 2011)

LibocalypseNow said:


> The guy really did stick his neck out for us for 30yrs over there. And in return we gave him just 18 Days to completely sell him out. Can the U.S. Government ever be trusted again?


 
It's Obama's plan. He has an axe to grind against the Colonials that sent his grandad to jail (Britain)...The very country he is CEO of meets the same criteria, and just as guilty.


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## Political Junky (Feb 11, 2011)

grunt11b said:


> Political Junky said:
> 
> 
> > Turkey is a parliamentary republic which happens to be Muslim. They seem to be moving along very nicely.
> ...


I've been all over Turkey and never had any problem whatsoever. Friends of mine go to Turkey regularly.
What did you do to get chased with knives?


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## kiwiman127 (Feb 11, 2011)

I'd say the people of Egypt gave Mubarak 18 days and then the Egyptian Military Establishment decided enough was enough.
I think the US influence over this is way overblown.
On the upside, stocks are up and oil is down.


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## Big Black Dog (Feb 11, 2011)

King Tut is rolling over in his grave...


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## grunt11b (Feb 11, 2011)

LibocalypseNow said:


> The guy really did stick his neck out for us for 30yrs over there. And in return we gave him just 18 Days to completely sell him out. Can the U.S. Government ever be trusted again?



 Vote Trump and it will happen. Check out his CPAC speech.
 [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYQOx4XS6Nc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYQOx4XS6Nc[/ame]


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## grunt11b (Feb 11, 2011)

Political Junky said:


> grunt11b said:
> 
> 
> > Political Junky said:
> ...



I was in Germany at the time, in a Turkish Neighborhood. If you are a liberal, then maybe that is why they chose not to try and kill you. The muslims see you as there brother in this case.


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## LibocalypseNow (Feb 11, 2011)

grunt11b said:


> LibocalypseNow said:
> 
> 
> > The guy really did stick his neck out for us for 30yrs over there. And in return we gave him just 18 Days to completely sell him out. Can the U.S. Government ever be trusted again?
> ...



Paul has a better chance than he does. Trump's pretty much considered a media slut buffoon. He'll probably run and then do another stupid TV Show or write another lame book. It's all about money and self-promotion for Trump. It's actually an insult to America that he's even considering running. The People are not as dumb as he thinks. This is just another money-making scheme for Trump. He doesn't believe in anything. He really is an empty suit.


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## grunt11b (Feb 11, 2011)

LibocalypseNow said:


> grunt11b said:
> 
> 
> > LibocalypseNow said:
> ...



Money making scheme? You do understand that he has already made more money right now and by being president he would be making pennies compared to his regular salary don't you? 
 If anyone can pull us out of an econimic mess, it's donald trump, he is a business man that will smack our foes in the mouth, he speaks his mind and tells it like it is, something we have not had since Reagan. As of now, he has my vote. 
 I like rand paul, but dont trust him just yet, more or less I trust his dad even less. The fruit dont fall far from the tree. I may be wrong, but that has yet to be seen.


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## grunt11b (Feb 11, 2011)

Also, watch the whole video before commenting, if he is serious in half of it, then he is already a huge improvement on the current knucklehead.
 Pay attention at the 7 minute mark, what he says about china you would never hear Obama say. Trump has balls, Obama has a vagina.
 I also like his OPEC comments at around the 8 minute mark, I love that because it is true.


----------



## LibocalypseNow (Feb 11, 2011)

Trump is playing you for the suckers you are if you actually believe he believes in anything. This is just another one of his money-making schemes. I seriously doubt he really wants to be President. He's just loves the media attention. He really is a media slut buffoon. He probably already has a stupid reality TV Show in the works. He's just playing you guys for suckers. He believes in nothing and stands for nothing. My God,is he even Conservative? Why the hell was he invited to CPAC? Man,so many suckers in this World. Trump is a phony Asshole. Nuff said.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 11, 2011)

lib, you just described Sarah's motivation, not that of Trump.


----------



## grunt11b (Feb 11, 2011)

LibocalypseNow said:


> Trump is playing you for the suckers you are if you actually believe he believes in anything. This is just another one of his money-making schemes. I seriously doubt he really wants to be President. He's just loves the media attention. He really is a media slut buffoon. He probably already has a stupid reality TV Show in the works. He's just playing you guys for suckers. He believes in nothing and stands for nothing. My God,is he even Conservative? Why the hell was he invited to CPAC? Man,so many suckers in this World. Trump is a phony Asshole. Nuff said.



And the current crop has been running things so perfectly? I would take a business man who knows a good deal from a bad one and can dig us out of this hole over a kenyan born bought and paid for knucklehead who owes alot of payback for all the voter fraud any day of the week. 
 Say what you want, but Trump has more balls then Obama or any of the current crop of liberals running this country, not a one of them have any spine and the last 2-1/2 years have proven as much, look at the worlds outlook on America right now, despicable. Watch this video if you need further proof. Even the Russians won't shake his hand.
 [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1C_NWMRs8Q"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1C_NWMRs8Q[/ame]


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 11, 2011)

grunt11B, your satisfied liberal on the sign looks like a young Boehner.  Hmmm?  Are you a lib in con clothing.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Feb 11, 2011)

LibocalypseNow said:


> The guy really did stick his neck out for us for 30yrs over there. And in return we gave him just 18 Days to completely sell him out. Can the U.S. Government ever be trusted again?



What would you have had us do,* specifically*?


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 11, 2011)

The loons of the far left and the goons of the far right have only talking points, nothing specific.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 11, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> The loons of the far left and the goons of the far right have only talking points, nothing specific.



I gave specifics.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 11, 2011)

Says comradebiggie, a typical Rush/Saul/Howard approach.


----------



## JohnnyApplesack (Feb 11, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Let's face it. They hate us. No election in any Middle Eastern country is going to put in place a government that is friendly to our country or our primary ally, Israel.
> 
> It also doesn't help that Obama has been actively running this revolution from the White House. They don't want to give the impression this is an American operation but it's getting harder and harder to hide the fact. Guess it just depends on what people are willing to believe.
> 
> ...



Did you get all that shit from Fixed News?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 11, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Says comradebiggie, a typical Rush/Saul/Howard approach.



Here are the facts jake no talking points allowed.


Really? Who's behind the protest?
In a news report by the new york times we read that the Muslim Brotherhood wants to govern using the Islamic tenets
*What the Muslim Brothers Want*
Op-Ed Contributor
What the Muslim Brothers WantBy ESSAM EL-ERRIAN
Published: February 9, 2011


In Egypt, religion continues to be an important part of our culture and heritage. Moving forward, we envision the establishment of a democratic, civil state that draws on universal measures of freedom and justice, which are central Islamic values. We embrace democracy not as a foreign concept that must be reconciled with tradition,* but as a set of principles and objectives that are inherently compatible with and reinforce Islamic tenets*. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/10/opinion/10erian.html?_r=1

Now what are the Islamic tenets? After further review I found this

 C. BOOKS (SCRIPTURES)...
      1. "One of the central doctrines of Islamic faith is belief in all
         of God's revealed messages, which now consist of four books:
         Torah, Psalms, Gospels, and Qur'an."
      2. "These four Books are to be regarded as Holy Scriptures, even
         though the three Books preceding the Qur'an include certain
         human imperfections."
      3. "With the appearance of the Qur'an, the noblest of the Books,
         these earlier Books, it is believed, were abrogated."
      4. "...it is an article of faith that the purpose of the Qur'an is
         to preserve original divine revelations by restoring the
         eternal truth of God." (Qur'an 5:44-48)
*5. "Since the Qur'an abrogates all earlier Books, its ordinances
         continue to remain in force until the Day of Judgment..."*
The Religion Of Islam - The Tenets Of Islam

After looking where they get there ordinances I found this

Some Statutes And Penalties Of Islamic Law

The Penalty Of The Thief 

Some Ordinances and Laws of the Quran and Islam
Thousands of women, who have claimed to be rape-victims, are now languishing in jail or have their lives ruined even after being acquitted, due to trying them under zina bil Jabr of Hudood Laws. [Jahangir and Jilani, chapters III-IV] "No distinction has been made between Zina and Zina Bil Jabr (rape), resulting in it becoming an instrument of exploitation and oppression." [Niaz, 2001]
Article: "Rape and Hudood Ordinance: Perversions of Justice in the Name of Islam"

Not such a great idea for the PC people is it? The protest are just a remake of Iran 1978


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 11, 2011)

A small minority of Muslims, like a small minority of Christians, like a small minority of Jews ~ will justify killing in the name of their god.  The great number of Egyptians are not blood thirty like you, comradbiggie.  Go look up the bio of the columnist, and come back and tell us of his agenda.

Your talking points, just like those of Saul/Rush/Howard, don't wash with the great majority of America.


----------



## Martin35 (Feb 11, 2011)

The average Egyptian does not know he hates America with a passion born of desperation,,,yet,,, it will have to be brought to their attention,,, in short order to become immediately effective as a reason to live and die.
Egypt is the ideal place to start a country based on Western style Democracy.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 11, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> A small minority of Muslims, like a small minority of Christians, like a small minority of Jews ~ will justify killing in the name of their god.  The great number of Egyptians are not blood thirty like you, comradbiggie.  Go look up the bio of the columnist, and come back and tell us of his agenda.
> 
> Your talking points, just like those of Saul/Rush/Howard, don't wash with the great majority of America.



I said talking points are not allowed and you used them. I gave you facts. You gave me nothing in return


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 11, 2011)

You gave somebody's talking points.  Move along, comradebiggiSaulHowardRush, you are dismissed.  And carefully, carefully read Martin's comments above.  Do you good, champ.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 11, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> You gave somebody's talking points.  Move along, comradebiggiSaulHowardRush, you are dismissed.  And carefully, carefully read Martin's comments above.  Do you good, champ.



Who was he talking for?


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 11, 2011)

Figure it out.  You should be able to do it.  Nighty night.


----------



## jgarden (Feb 11, 2011)

*Throughout its history, the US has had to make the hard decisions to do what's best for its immediate security OR to support the emergence of American core values (democracy, freedom) throughout the world.

Far too often, US Administrations have chosen the former and supported repressive regimes in the Caribbean, Latin and South America, Asia, Africa and the Middle East.

Invariably those decisions have come back to haunt America, since the peoples of those nations are fully aware that their dictators and military were being propped up and bankrolled to promote US security - at their expense!*


----------



## Martin35 (Feb 11, 2011)

Almost every foreign policy decision will have unintended consequences, the long time support of Mubarak was in aid stabilization, there was no sin attached until his people became aroused,,, folks doing without can get real peevish.


----------



## LibocalypseNow (Feb 11, 2011)

Martin35 said:


> Almost every foreign policy decision will have unintended consequences, the long time support of Mubarak was in aid stabilization, there was no sin attached until his people became aroused,,, folks doing without can get real peevish.



We're already paying off the new Egyptian Government as well. Our meddling in Egypt has not come to an end,like so many are proclaiming. Our aggressive Foreign Interventionism vicious circle continues to spin round & round. The Egyptians will get pissed off at us at some point down the road. The radicals will now want their say. Will payoffs be enough for us in the future? I guess we'll see. Stay tuned.


----------



## dilloduck (Feb 11, 2011)

Martin35 said:


> Almost every foreign policy decision will have unintended consequences, the long time support of Mubarak was in aid stabilization, there was no sin attached until his people became aroused,,, folks doing without can get real peevish.



No sin ?  How about other people in the world who went without so Israel and the Arabs would play nice ?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 12, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Figure it out.  You should be able to do it.  Nighty night.



He was talking for the muslim brotherhood stupid. Or didn't you know that?


----------



## Martin35 (Feb 12, 2011)

*[No sin ? How about other people in the world who went without so Israel and the Arabs would play nice ? /B]
What part of your personal benefits would you give up to allow the region where the majority of worlds dwindling oil supply is located to become unavailable, world events affect the world, last time I looked we were part of the world not a isolated unaffected enclave, we are touched regardless our shrinking attitudes of involvement. Our inaction's are as consequential as our actions,,, see 2 World Wars. Try to man up, the rest of the world is..*


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 12, 2011)

The Muslim Brotherhood

&#8220;The Ikhwan must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and &#8216;sabotaging&#8217; its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God&#8217;s religion is made victorious over all other religions.&#8221;



> One thing that should not be is that the Muslim Brotherhood is our enemy, and whatever role it plays in Egypt&#8216;s future will be to our detriment.
> 
> Such clarity is readily available because the Brotherhood (MB or, in Arabic, Ikhwan) has told us as much. Consider, for example, the mission statement for the MB found in one of its secret documents, titled &#8220;An Explanatory Memorandum on the General Strategic Goal for the Group in North America.&#8221;
> 
> &#8220;The Ikhwan must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and &#8216;sabotaging&#8217; its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God&#8217;s religion is made victorious over all other religions.&#8221;



Some interesting facts about the Muslim Brotherhood:



> 1. The group is the world's oldest and largest Islamic political group
> 
> 2. Their credo is: _*&#8220;Allah is our objective; the Quran is our constitution, the Prophet is our leader; Jihad is our way; and death for the sake of Allah is the highest of our aspirations.*_
> 
> ...




U.S. White House counter-terrorism chief Juan Zarate, says The Muslim Brotherhood is a group that is not a threat _"because it deals with philosophical or ideological ideas but because it defends the use of violence against civilians."_

They attack the use of violence from dictators but when they commit violent acts, they're excused. Like the many times members have attempted and in some case succeeded in assassinations. Egyptian Prime minister assassination, Suicide Bombings, links with al Qaeda and Hamas, 

Security Director James Clapper says the Muslim Brotherhood is a* secular* organization and mostly harmless. 

LINKS

A Profile of the Muslim Brotherhood
The Protocals of the Elders of Zion
Wikipedia on the Muslim Brotherhood
Washington Times Link to the Brotherhood


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 12, 2011)

Martin35 said:


> *[No sin ? How about other people in the world who went without so Israel and the Arabs would play nice ? /B]
> What part of your personal benefits would you give up to allow the region where the majority of worlds dwindling oil supply is located to become unavailable, world events affect the world, last time I looked we were part of the world not a isolated unaffected enclave, we are touched regardless our shrinking attitudes of involvement. Our inaction's are as consequential as our actions,,, see 2 World Wars. Try to man up, the rest of the world is..*


*

And thanks to our President every drop of our oil is off-limits to us. 

Is he working with our enemies to bring us down?

He sure as hell isn't helping us. 

Seems Muslims and Progressives have a common goal. Raising the price of fossil-fuels so we cannot afford them. Both believe in solidarity, workers of the world uniting in a common cause, a new world order, both believe in revolution, and Democracy. 

It's just that little problem of differing opinions of government. Progressives believe in a secular government while Islamists believe in a strict Theocracy. So when the time comes the Islamists will simply absorb the Progressives, or put them to the sword, whichever comes first.*


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 12, 2011)

The Muslim Brotherhood



> *We also know how the Brotherhood plans to pull off our destruction. Another MB document, this one undated, is called &#8220;Phases of the World Underground Movement Plan.&#8221; It describes a five-installment program for achieving the triumph of Shariah - together with a status report on the realization of several of the phases&#8217; goals:
> 
> Phase 1: &#8220;Discreet and secret establishment of leadership.&#8221;
> 
> ...


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 12, 2011)

The Muslim Brotherhood

















By Ali Akbar Dareini
Associated Press / February 11, 2011


TEHRAN, IranIran's president declared Friday that* Egypt's uprising shows a new Middle East is emerging that will doom Israel and break free of American "interference,"* even as Tehran clamps down harder on its own domestic opposition movement.


Iran has sought to portray the popular uprisings in Tunisia and Egypt as a replay of its 1979 Islamic Revolution -- whose anniversary was marked Friday by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's speech and state-organized rallies that included chants of support for Egypt's anti-government protests.

"Despite all the (West's) complicated and satanic designs ... a new Middle East is emerging without the Zionist regime and U.S. interference, a place where the arrogant powers will have no place," Ahmadinejad told a crowd filling Tehran's Azadi, or Freedom, Square.


In Iran's calculation, the revolt against Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak equals a blow to U.S. influence in the region and carries echoes of Iran's Islamic Revolution, which deposed the Western-allied monarchy and brought hard-line clerics to power.

Iran has been highly critical of Egypt's regime for its pro-U.S. policies and peace pact with Israel. For years, Iranian officials commissioned murals and other symbols to honor the gunman who killed Egyptian President Anwar Sadat in 1981, two years after the peace accord with Israel took effect. Jordan also has a peace deal with Israel.

At the same time, Iranian authorities have been pushed into a corner by their support for the Egyptian uprising.

Iranian opposition groups have called for marches on Monday to express solidarity with Egypt's demonstrators. Iranian officials consider it a backdoor attempt to revive anti-government demonstrations and have warned of sharp crackdowns on efforts to return to the streets.



Tens of thousands marched down Tehran's main boulevard in state-organized rallies, some chanting in support of Egypt's anti-government protesters. Some Iranians set an effigy of Mubarak on fire while others mocked him with quips playing off his last name, which means "congratulations" in Farsi.

Ahmadinejad, speaking just hours before Mubarak resigned and transferred control of the country to the armed forces, urged Egyptian protesters to persevere.

"It's your right to be free. It's your right to exercise your will and sovereignty ... and choose the type of government and the rulers," said Ahmadinejad.

.

Isn't it wonderful the way the Obama Administration does so much to give aid and comfort to our worst enemies.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 12, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Martin35 said:
> 
> 
> > *[No sin ? How about other people in the world who went without so Israel and the Arabs would play nice ? /B]
> ...


*

SEEMS THEY HAVE A COMMON GOAL? You didn't know code pink helped with the protest in egypt?*


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 12, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Martin35 said:
> ...


*

Yes, the same individuals that want to cut Clarence Thomas's toes off and feed em to him.

Code Pink is cool. The Tea Party is racist. A threat. 

Go figure.*


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2011)

How obvious the Mudwhistles and comradbigrebs walk in lockstep trying to prevent democracy in the USA as well as abroad.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 12, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> How obvious the Mudwhistles and comradbigrebs walk in lockstep trying to prevent democracy in the USA as well as abroad.



I see 1978 all over again, good thing though after the 70's we had Ronald Reagan. Does this mean we will have another Reagan in the white house in 2012?


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2011)

You are seeing through a glass darkly, comrade bigrebnc, and using the strategies of Alinski/Zenn/Limbaugh.  You are attempting to polarize a topic and demonize.  However, Egypt in 2011 is not Iran in 1979; no Khomeini exists; the Muslim Brotherhood does not have the power of the imams in Iran; and Egyptians are far more tolerant of the West than the Iranians in 1979.

bigrebnc, tell us why you oppose the growth of democratic freedoms abroad?


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 12, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> How obvious the Mudwhistles and comradbigrebs walk in lockstep trying to prevent democracy in the USA as well as abroad.



Yeah, right. 

For eight years we've been hearing about all your complaints about Democracy in Iraq. You didn't like it one friggen bit.

Funny how people like yourself had a problem with Democracy then. 

Bush freed 50 million people from under tyrants and you've been bitching about it ever since. 

Nobody supported the Iranian revolution last year. A place where Democracy is really needed. 
I guess it all depends how you do it. Bush made sure it was controlled and Obama just made sure it happened. Now he's gonna bail and wait for the bull shit to start. Of course the media won't report on it. So Islamic creep and expansion will go on without coverage from MSNBC, NBC, CBS, ABC, and CNN.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > How obvious the Mudwhistles and comradbigrebs walk in lockstep trying to prevent democracy in the USA as well as abroad.
> ...



We are a democratic republic; you need to learn how our government works.  The 50 million people "liberated" are controlled by political parties who don't like us.  Iran and Iraq work more closely every day, and very soon we will be gone from Iraq and contained to Kabul.

Bush and the neo-cons were fools and all of America is paying the price of fools gold.


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 12, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> You are seeing through a glass darkly, comrade bigrebnc, and using the strategies of Alinski/Zenn/Limbaugh.  You are attempting to polarize a topic and demonize.  However, Egypt in 2011 is not Iran in 1979; no Khomeini exists; the Muslim Brotherhood does not have the power of the imams in Iran; and Egyptians are far more tolerant of the West than the Iranians in 1979.
> 
> bigrebnc, tell us why you oppose the growth of democratic freedoms abroad?



What a fool.

They already have the power. It only took 19 days to complete a revolution. How much longer will it take for the Muslim Brotherhood to infiltrate and take over the Egyptian government.


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 12, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



I know how our government works shithead. 

And the 80 million people in Egypt are controlled by political parties that don't like us. Nobody there likes us anymore. You need to face up to that glaring fact.

We are a Republic. The UN is a Democracy.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 12, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> You are seeing through a glass darkly, comrade bigrebnc, and using the strategies of Alinski/Zenn/Limbaugh.  You are attempting to polarize a topic and demonize.  However, Egypt in 2011 is not Iran in 1979; no Khomeini exists; the Muslim Brotherhood does not have the power of the imams in Iran; and Egyptians are far more tolerant of the West than the Iranians in 1979.
> 
> bigrebnc, tell us why you oppose the growth of democratic freedoms abroad?





> You are seeing through a glass darkly, comrade bigrebnc, and using the strategies of Alinski/Zenn/Limbaugh.



It seems you have the problem looking at things clearly if you compare Limbaugh to Alinsky.



> You are attempting to polarize a topic and demonize.  However, Egypt in 2011 is not Iran in 1979; no Khomeini exists



What do you think the Muslim brotherhood is and who do you think runs it? Hints they are not a political movement they are headed by a religious person.



> the Muslim Brotherhood does not have the power of the imams in Iran; and Egyptians are far more tolerant of the West than the Iranians in 1979.



The only one you're fooling is yourself.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2011)

We are a democratic Republic, we do have allies in Europe, you ignored the fact that we are losing Iraq and Afghanistan, and you have comradbignbc as your ally.

You guys are digging yourself into such a shithole, you will be breathing shit for the next year here.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 12, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> We are a democratic Republic, we do have allies in Europe, you ignored the fact that we are losing Iraq and Afghanistan, and you have comradbignbc as your ally.
> 
> You guys are digging yourself into such a shithole, you will be breathing shit for the next year here.



We are a Constitutional Republic, but at least you didn't say we were a democracy
A Constitutional Republic is a state where the officials are elected as representatives of the people, and must govern according to existing constitutional law that limits the government's power over citizens.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2011)

We are a democratic Republic.  The officials are elected democratically.  The SCOTUS decides what is constitutional, not the comradebiggies.


----------



## Ropey (Feb 12, 2011)

> In the strictest sense of the word, the system of government established by the Constitution was never intended to be a "democracy." This is evident not only in the wording of the Pledge of Allegiance but in the Constitution itself which declares that "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government" (Article IV, Section 4). Moreover, the scheme of representation and the various mechanisms for selecting representatives established by the Constitution were clearly intended to produce a republic, not a democracy.





> To the extent that the United States of America has moved away from its republican roots and become more "democratic," it has strayed from the intentions of the Constitution's authors. Whether or not the trend toward more direct democracy would be smiled upon by the Framers depends on the answer to another question. Are the American people today sufficiently better informed and otherwise equipped to be wise and prudent democratic citizens than were American citizens in the late 1700s? By all accounts, the answer to this second question is an emphatic "no."



ThisNation.com--Is the United States a democracy?


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 12, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> We are a democratic Republic, we do have allies in Europe, you ignored the fact that we are losing Iraq and Afghanistan, and you have comradbignbc as your ally.
> 
> You guys are digging yourself into such a shithole, you will be breathing shit for the next year here.



We are losing Iraq and Afghanistan.

Must be Bush's fault.

Not Obama's 

Idiot.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > We are a democratic Republic, we do have allies in Europe, you ignored the fact that we are losing Iraq and Afghanistan, and you have comradbignbc as your ally.
> ...



Obama indeed is filling in the grave of the neo-cons' foreign policy blunders of the last decade, indeed.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 12, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> We are a democratic Republic.  The officials are elected democratically.  The SCOTUS decides what is constitutional, not the comradebiggies.



progressivestarkey what is it about "must govern according to existing constitutional law that limits the government's power over citizens." that you fail to comprehend?


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2011)

Progressivism is reformism.  You are progressivebigrebnccomrade.  You need to learn honest definitions, son.

You, bucko and your seven comrades, don't tell us what the constitution "means".


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 12, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Progressivism is reformism.  You are progressivebigrebnccomrade.  You need to learn honest definitions, son.
> 
> You, bucko and your seven comrades, don't tell us what the constitution "means".



You're full of shit. project much?


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2011)

You are projecting the trash truck on yourself again.  You and your fellow wacks are allowed to say what you think, but you don't have the votes.  You know it, I know it.


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 12, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> We are a democratic Republic.  The officials are elected democratically.  The SCOTUS decides what is constitutional, not the comradebiggies.



We use elections to decide who will represent us, but in case you don't realize it, the popular vote doesn't decide who becomes POTUS. The Electoral College decides who is POTUS. Or have you forgotten the 2000 election. That means our President is elected by representatives. That may be Democratic but not a text book Democracy.

In a Democracy majority rules. Everything is put to a vote. In a Republic you elect representatives to vote for you.



> *An Important Distinction: Democracy versus Republic*
> 
> It is important to keep in mind the difference between a Democracy and a Republic, as dissimilar forms of government. Understanding the difference is essential to comprehension of the fundamentals involved. It should be noted, in passing, that use of the word Democracy as meaning merely the popular type of government--that is, featuring genuinely free elections by the people periodically--is not helpful in discussing, as here, the difference between alternative and dissimilar forms of a popular government: a Democracy versus a Republic. This double meaning of Democracy--a popular-type government in general, as well as a specific form of popular government--needs to be made clear in any discussion, or writing, regarding this subject, for the sake of sound understanding.
> 
> ...



In a Democracy there is no need for a Constitution. The majority overrules everything else. 

Link


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2011)

Sigh.  Mudwhistle, look at me.  LOOK AT ME!  In the eye.  That's better.  We are a democratic republic.  Got it?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 12, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Sigh.  Mudwhistle, look at me.  LOOK AT ME!  In the eye.  That's better.  We are a democratic republic.  Got it?



It get's very tiring correcting you


We are a Constitutional republic.
progressivestarkey what is it about "must govern according to existing constitutional law that limits the government's power over citizens." that you fail to comprehend?


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 12, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> You are projecting the trash truck on yourself again.  You and your fellow wacks are allowed to say what you think, but you don't have the votes.  You know it, I know it.



You're confusing a Democracy with freedom of speech.

In a Democracy the minority has no voice.

That's what's wrong with a Democracy. It sounds good but people get fucked all of the time. 

Say we have a country that is mostly Shiite. The Sunnis are in the minority and have no voice. In Iraq the Sunnis were the minority but since the President was Sunni they had more of a voice then the Shiite majority. Now the tables have turned and they have a Democracy. It didn't solve their problems because we wanted them to develop a constitution and they still don't have one. That is why they are going nowhere.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2011)

What don't you understand, big?  A constitutional republic is a democratic republic, where the people elect their representation, whether in the House, the Senate, the electors, whatever.

Saul Alinksy would be proud of you, biggie.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > You are projecting the trash truck on yourself again.  You and your fellow wacks are allowed to say what you think, but you don't have the votes.  You know it, I know it.
> ...



No, no, no.  Democracies can become tyrannies of the majority if the country does not have guaranteed minority rights.  We do, they don't, and you don't get it.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 12, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> What don't you understand, big?  A constitutional republic is a democratic republic, where the people elect their representation, whether in the House, the Senate, the electors, whatever.
> 
> Saul Alinksy would be proud of you, biggie.


Definitions of Democratic republic on the Web:


&#8226;People's Republic, also especially in other languages Popular Republic, is a title that has often been used by Marxist-Leninist governments to describe their state. ...
&#8226;A political system in which a country is ruled by law, has representative government, and is democratic in nature.
&#8226;a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.
defineemocratic republic - Google Search
One thing it fails to mention and that is a Constitution


Here's what we are
A Constitutional Republic is a state where the officials are elected as representatives of the people, and must govern according to existing constitutional law that limits the government's power over citizens.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > What don't you understand, big?  A constitutional republic is a democratic republic, where the people elect their representation, whether in the House, the Senate, the electors, whatever.
> ...



I helped you out with the highlighting.  We are *now *in agreement.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 12, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



Seek the truth and it shall set you free. Now we are


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2011)

. . . both free.  biggie, we have always been free.  Only your shutter vision has restricted your ability to freely see.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 12, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> . . . both free.  biggie, we have always been free.  Only your shutter vision has restricted your ability to freely see.



There's a difference jake

People's Republic, also especially in other languages Popular Republic, *is a title that has often been used by Marxist-Leninist governments to describe their state*. ...
A political system in which a country is ruled by law, has representative government, and is democratic in nature.
a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.
One thing it fails to mention and that is a Constitution

Here's what we are A Constitutional Republic is a state where the officials are elected DEMOCRATICALLY as representatives of the people, and must govern according to existing *constitutional law* that limits the government's power over citizens.


Google democratic government it will always come up defining Democracy
democratic government - Google Search


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## mudwhistle (Feb 12, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



A constitution makes all of the difference. A Democracy doesn't have basic human rights because the majority gets to decide everything.

YOU didn't read my POST.

Since you didn't you look like a fool and this discussion is a total waste of time. 

It's difficult to discuss anything with someone who refuses to fact up to the truth.

But I'll try to post it in larger print so you can read it like a 9 year old.



> *An Important Distinction: Democracy versus Republic*
> 
> It is important to keep in mind the difference between a Democracy and a Republic, as dissimilar forms of government. Understanding the difference is essential to comprehension of the fundamentals involved. It should be noted, in passing, that use of the word Democracy as meaning merely the popular type of government--that is, featuring genuinely free elections by the people periodically--is not helpful in discussing, as here, the difference between alternative and dissimilar forms of a popular government: a Democracy versus a Republic. This double meaning of Democracy--a popular-type government in general, as well as a specific form of popular government--needs to be made clear in any discussion, or writing, regarding this subject, for the sake of sound understanding.
> 
> ...


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 12, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



What jake is tring to say is that a "democratic" republic is not a democracy which he would be wrong they are both the same.


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## idb (Feb 13, 2011)

So what is the UK?


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 13, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Let's face it. They hate us. No election in any Middle Eastern country is going to put in place a government that is friendly to our country or our primary ally, Israel.
> 
> It also doesn't help that Obama has been actively running this revolution from the White House. They don't want to give the impression this is an American operation but it's getting harder and harder to hide the fact. Guess it just depends on what people are willing to believe.
> 
> ...


You're delusional.  Seek help.


----------



## California Girl (Feb 13, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> You are projecting the trash truck on yourself again.  You and your fellow wacks are allowed to say what you think, but you don't have the votes.  You know it, I know it.



Could you please stop giving other people permission to voice their opinions. No one died and made you God. You're an arrogant little ass of a man at times, Joke.


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## zzzz (Feb 13, 2011)

'tis not a democracy yet. Another military takeover disguised as a popular revolt is what it looks like to me. We will have to wait and see if the military allows real democratic elections or if they will pick a candidate and then squash any other one. Real democracies allow the people to decide not an military junta. 

And face it, Egypt gets a lot of money from us, and the military enjoys a cozy realtionship with the pentagon so do you really see a change? No.


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## editec (Feb 13, 2011)

Does it really matter what we call it?

Our government is what it is.

Once again semantical arguments lead nowhere.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 13, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Let's face it. They hate us. No election in any Middle Eastern country is going to put in place a government that is friendly to our country or our primary ally, Israel.
> ...



I suggest you seek help crawling out from under that rock you're living under Patrick. 

You're delusional if you think anything else is the case. 

Democracy, the kind of democracy that Islamic radicals are thinking of, squashes the rights of the minority. Steps all over them. 65% of Egyptians already are willing to put anyone in power that will end the peace between Egypt and Israel. It was the same in Gaza. They voted in terrorists because the terrorists build hospitals. It didn't matter that they also had their kids blowing themselves up in buses in Tel Aviv.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 13, 2011)

zzzz said:


> 'tis not a democracy yet. Another military takeover disguised as a popular revolt is what it looks like to me. We will have to wait and see if the military allows real democratic elections or if they will pick a candidate and then squash any other one. Real democracies allow the people to decide not an military junta.
> 
> And face it, Egypt gets a lot of money from us, and the military enjoys a cozy realtionship with the pentagon so do you really see a change? No.



We propped up Iran while the Shaw was in power,gave them millions, and Iran fell into the hands of Kolmeni and a radical theocracy that has been in power for over 30 years. And guess what, many Americans would be alive today if it weren't for Iran turning radical on Carter's watch. 

If it weren't for Iran, Somalis wouldn't have been able to shoot down our Black Hawks. 

If it weren't for Iran, Iraq would have been peaceful inside a year. 

If it weren't for Iran 4000 of our kids wouldn't have died in Iraq. 

All of those thousands of dead Iraqis many blame Bush for would be alive today.

And FYI, if it weren't for Iran, Hezbollah wouldn't even exist.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 13, 2011)

editec said:


> Does it really matter what we call it?
> 
> Our government is what it is.
> 
> Once again semantical arguments lead nowhere.



This is not an argument over semantics. 

If we want to argue over facts, accuse others of not knowing how government works, we must know what we're talking about first. 

The whole purpose of this thread is to show the misrepresentations that exist in popular opinion, and that these misrepresentations are being taken advantage of by nefarious groups to with goals that are in opposition to ours, and you, and others like you are praising them. 

We must be accurate here, not sort of accurate. It makes all the difference in the world. Obama knows it and so does the Muslim Brotherhood.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 13, 2011)

None of the anti-Egtypian pro-Mubark supporters have demonstrated that this revolution will not aid the U.S.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 13, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> None of the anti-Egtypian pro-Mubark supporters have demonstrated that this revolution will not aid the U.S.



I guess while they were bashing in Gregg Palkot, and Anderson Cooper's heads they were really showing their love for America.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 13, 2011)

Personally, I think that any woman that supports this needs to have her head examined.

Where were all of the women during those demonstrations? Over half the country is women yet you rarely if ever saw any. 

What does that mean?

A country that adheres to Sharia Law does not allow women the right to vote. 



> *With almost four hundred years of history as a caliphate, its not surprising then that Egypts penal code is written and based upon Islamic law.  Perhaps this is to be expected in a country where an estimated 90% of the people are Muslim.  What is surprising is that Egypts government is, or at least has been, a secular model.   But will it remain so?*



How long will it take for them to impose this caliphate they speak of so much?

Women were not represented in the crowd so it's very likely they had no say in the process.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 13, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> None of the anti-Egtypian pro-Mubark supporters have demonstrated that this revolution will not aid the U.S.



Do you disagree to just disagree? Do you always like to be the odd man out? Exactly who is anti freedom, and who is pro freedom jake? Do you think an islamic based country is for individual rights for it's people? If you think that more freedom will have because the egyptian people kicked Mubarka to the curb I think you will be saddly mistaken. And how do I base my opinion on that? I look at the history of islamic countries, and historical events that happen in Iran. If you deny what has happen in the past then you are a very foolish person.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 13, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > None of the anti-Egtypian pro-Mubark supporters have demonstrated that this revolution will not aid the U.S.
> ...



Iran Iran here we go again.


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## Synthaholic (Feb 13, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



You are delusional for saying that *"Obama has been actively running this revolution from the White House" *and _What's the difference between the kind of government takeover and regime-building Bush did in Iraq *and Obama is doing in Egypt?
*_
I can't take this kind of brain-dead ignorance seriously.


----------



## del (Feb 13, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Let's face it. They hate us. No election in any Middle Eastern country is going to put in place a government that is friendly to our country or our primary ally, Israel.
> 
> It also doesn't help that Obama has been actively running this revolution from the White House. They don't want to give the impression this is an American operation but it's getting harder and harder to hide the fact. Guess it just depends on what people are willing to believe.
> 
> ...



you have to ask? really? edumicate yourself

Suez Canal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Synthaholic (Feb 13, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> zzzz said:
> 
> 
> > 'tis not a democracy yet. Another military takeover disguised as a popular revolt is what it looks like to me. We will have to wait and see if the military allows real democratic elections or if they will pick a candidate and then squash any other one. Real democracies allow the people to decide not an military junta.
> ...




You're not only delusional, you're a moron.

_"on Carter's watch"_, like he was in charge of Iran.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 13, 2011)

The far right winger wacks are seeing their world crumble and losing any chance of political influence here.  Good.


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## edthecynic (Feb 13, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Mubarak blamed it on Obama.
> 
> Did you even know up until 20 days ago that Egypt was such a mess??? Did you know who the Muslim Brotherhood was before then???
> 
> ...


I question YOU!!!

The Muslim Brotherhood is the only political party that Mubarak would allow in Egypt!!!
Mubarak is in bed with the Muslim Brotherhood, which is why the CON$ervative Brotherhood supports Mubarak.


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## edthecynic (Feb 13, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > None of the anti-Egtypian pro-Mubark supporters have demonstrated that this revolution will not aid the U.S.
> ...


Hey DumbAss, it was Mubarak's thugs who were bashing the heads of the reporters!!!


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 13, 2011)

Mudwhistle is on a mission right now to the far dark side of the right.  Let him go, he won't listen to reason.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 13, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> The far right winger wacks are seeing their world crumble and losing any chance of political influence here.  Good.



Remember the election of 2010? Our influence was pretty prevalent.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 13, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



Really? where you there? Who told you?


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 13, 2011)

bigreb and his crew are flailing now.  Sarah got 3% at CPAC yesterday, Romney seven or eight times that, and Paul can't get the nomination.

Guess what, bigreb?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 13, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> bigreb and his crew are flailing now.  Sarah got 3% at CPAC yesterday, Romney seven or eight times that, and Paul can't get the nomination.
> 
> Guess what, bigreb?



more proof jakes far left of left.


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 13, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> bigreb and his crew are flailing now.  Sarah got 3% at CPAC yesterday, Romney seven or eight times that, and Paul can't get the nomination.
> 
> Guess what, bigreb?





> Paul can't get the nomination



The most popular cannot get the nomination. Interesting how that works out.


----------



## ogibillm (Feb 13, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Personally, I think that any woman that supports this needs to have her head examined.
> 
> Where were all of the women during those demonstrations? Over half the country is women yet you rarely if ever saw any.
> 
> ...



where do you get this stuff?
Women Play Vital Role In Egypt's Uprising : NPR


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## Ropey (Feb 13, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > bigreb and his crew are flailing now.  Sarah got 3% at CPAC yesterday, Romney seven or eight times that, and Paul can't get the nomination.
> ...





> What to make of CPAC straw poll?





> A straw poll or straw vote is a vote with nonbinding results





> "It's a straw poll, not a scientific poll so it gives some evidence of where activists are on these questions," said David Keene the Chairman of the American Conservative Union, the organization that puts on CPAC, in an interview with Minnesota Public Radio.





> "It does have a degree of accuracy in terms of both the feeling at the time on the part of conservative activists and, just as importantly, the openness of the conservative community to candidates," said Keene.



But no real evidence of where the true votes will go. I understand P F. You like some of the things that Ron Paul says so you think that such a poll should be the final stance because YOU like what he says.

Fail P F.

What is a Straw Poll?


----------



## AllieBaba (Feb 13, 2011)

Flopper said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Let's face it. They hate us. No election in any Middle Eastern country is going to put in place a government that is friendly to our country or our primary ally, Israel.
> ...



Please tell me what democracies oppose the US? Do tell.


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## edthecynic (Feb 13, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> *Obama has been actively running this revolution from the White House. *They don't want to give the impression this is an American operation but it's getting harder and harder to hide the fact. Guess it just depends on what people are willing to believe.


You're a little behind on your DittoTard talking points. Obama owning the revolution was last week's talking point. This week the CON$ervative Brotherhood talking point is Obama had nothing to do with the Egyptian revolution.
Try to keep up. 

February 2, 2011
RUSH:  *Obama owns this now, folks.  Obama goes out there and makes a speech and this is what happens.* 

February 11, 2011
RUSH:  That is an excellence point.  It's an excellent point.  Bush did overthrow a dictator, and he's hated for it.*  Obama had nothing to do with this and he is getting all the credit for getting rid of a dictator,* and the world is... Well, I don't know about the world, but the media is applauding it.  It's an excellent point.  I'm glad you called, Patrick.  

RUSH:    What are we to believe?  Who are we to believe?  I don't know, but the point is that elements of the media are doing everything they can to use this Egypt thing to reinforce and reestablish the omnipotence, competence, greatness and what have you, of *somebody who had literally nothing to do with it.*


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## LibocalypseNow (Feb 13, 2011)

Looks like a Military Coup paid for and supported by our Government. Our aggressive meddling in Egypt is far from being over. We'll be paying off this new Egyptian Government in no time. Our Interventionist vicious circle just continues to go round & round.


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## AllieBaba (Feb 13, 2011)

Are you ever overwhelmed by your own arrogance?

Just wondering.


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## AllieBaba (Feb 13, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > *Obama has been actively running this revolution from the White House. *They don't want to give the impression this is an American operation but it's getting harder and harder to hide the fact. Guess it just depends on what people are willing to believe.
> ...



I'm confused...if MW was a dittohead, wouldn't he be saying Obama is a blundering retard who had nothing whatsoever to do with this?


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## edthecynic (Feb 13, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...


wbfo: : Foreign Policy: Mubarak Plays The Blame Game (2011-02-10)

Foreign Policy: Mubarak Plays The Blame Game  				  	 		 		         		




 				 				Thursday marks the 17th straight day of  protests in Egypt. The revolts haven't showed signs of tapering, and  President Hosni Mubarak still hasn't stepped down. Peter Bouckaert of _Foreign Policy_ shows how Mubarak clings to power using propaganda  ¿ and violence ¿ against foreigners and foreign media.

After Mubarak's defiant  last-night speech on Feb. 1, rejecting outright the protesters' demand  that he step down,* authorities unleashed a stunning wave of violence and  intimidation. Gangs armed with sticks and knives attacked protesters.  Thugs rode in on horseback and ran demonstrators down.* State-run  hospitals were under pressure to conceal the toll, so my colleagues and I  tried to tally as best we could, visiting wards and morgues across the  capital. We've counted more than 300 deaths so far, much higher than the officially acknowledged death toll of 77.
*But another target of Mubarak's wrath was, simply, the rest of the world. Thugs hunted down foreigners, including journalists and tourists. Reporters from the Washington Post and the New York Times were  harassed and detained; al Jazeera's headquarters were stormed, its  equipment confiscated, and at least eight of its journalists detained at  various times. Attackers told their victims they were looking for an  alliance of Israeli Mossad spies, American agents, Iranian and Afghan  intelligence, Hamas provocateurs, and other sinister elements that were  conspiring to "destroy Egypt."*
Why this intense anti-foreigner  violence? In short, because the regime was trying just about everything  to preserve the privileges of its corrupt rule. There is considerable  circumstantial evidence to suggest that Mubarak's ruling National  Democratic Party, his Information Ministry, and elements of his security  services sponsored a coordinated campaign to discredit and break up the  largely peaceful pro-democracy protests that began on Jan. 25 and to  intimidate and silence the journalists, foreign and Egyptian, who were  reporting on it.
Senior officials, including Mubarak himself, have  darkly hinted of supposed foreign involvement in the protests. On Feb.  1, Mubarak said that honest protesters had been "exploited"  by spoilers with political interests. In a nationwide address two days  later, his newly appointed vice president, Omar Suleiman, more  explicitly accused "foreign influences" of spawning chaos.
The  innuendo didn't stop there. From the beginning of the protests,  "reports" of foreign conspiracies have dominated state television news.  Egyptian channels such as Al Oula TV, Nile TV, and Al Masriya TV, all  controlled by the Information Ministry, began playing virulent  propaganda about the alleged plots and conspiracies hatched abroad.  Similar rhetoric also ran on the pro-regime Mehwar TV owned by a close  associate of Mubarak's party and in the pages of state-controlled  newspapers such as _Al-Ahram_ and _Al-Akhbar_.






A plainclothes policeman (L) runs to attack a  foreign journalist as others beat a protester in front of two boys (not  seen in picture) during a demonstration in Cairo January 28, 2011.   
REUTERS/Goran Tomasevic


----------



## edthecynic (Feb 13, 2011)

AllieBaba said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...


As the first quote shows, it depends on what day of the week it is.
Your MessiahRushie, the leader of the CON$ervative Brotherhood, one day says Obama owns the revolution when Stuttering LimpTard thought the revolution would fail after Mubarak sent in his thugs, and the next day the pathological liar says Obama had nothing to do with the non-violent revolution after it succeeded.
Get it???


----------



## LibocalypseNow (Feb 13, 2011)

Euphoria will fade and then people will see what really happened in Egypt. High ranking Egyptian Generals met with this White House before and during this crisis. This was a Military Coup in the end. And we certainly did fund & support it. I guess we'll see if it was a wise investment or not. But don't live the fantasy that our U.S. Government was not involved with this coup.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 13, 2011)

The coup was actually led from the bathroom of LibocalypseNow.  You far rightards are a hoot.


----------



## LibocalypseNow (Feb 13, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> The coup was actually led from the bathroom of LibocalypseNow.  You far rightards are a hoot.



Oh you'll wake up and figure things out one day little boy. Your Government just bought a Military Coup in Egypt. Once your giddy euphoria subsides,you'll wake up to reality and see this. Is it going to be a wise U.S. investment though? I guess we'll just have to wait and see. It could turn out to be a disastrous investment. Things could get much worse for us now that Mubarak is gone. Stay tuned i guess.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 13, 2011)

Yup, sure thin, Lib.


----------



## Colin (Feb 13, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> The coup was actually led from the bathroom of LibocalypseNow.  You far rightards are a hoot.



I'm in my bathroom right now. Yeh. Sitting on the can with a copy of Libo's posts before me. Soon, they will be behind me.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 13, 2011)

What a perfect use of Lib's posts!


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 13, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



  I click on your link and bam NPR pops up.

You know I would agree if code pink had not been their, protesting along side the muslim brotherhood,


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 13, 2011)

You are the code pink of the pretend right, bigrebnc.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 13, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> You are the code pink of the pretend right, bigrebnc.



you're an idiot.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 13, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > You are the code pink of the pretend right, bigrebnc.
> ...



Your thinking is what is wrong with America.  biggie, we are not going back sixty or fifty or forty years.  We are going forward, and you are coming with us whether you want  to or not.  This is a democratic Republic (or constitutional Republic, if that makes you feel better), and you are ruled by constitutional, electoral process.  End of story.


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 13, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



We aren't ruled by dick.

That only happens in a monarchy.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 13, 2011)

Mudwhistle, you are ruled by constitutional, electoral process.  Doesn't matter what you think.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 13, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



How do you get from calling me a sexist to calling me code pink to this bullshit?^^^^^^
Never mind you're an idiot


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 13, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Mudwhistle, you are ruled by constitutional, electoral process.  Doesn't matter what you think.



We are not a democratic republic I have shown you what a democratic republic. We are governed by a Constitution there by we are a Constitutional Republic.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro (Feb 13, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> > Who runs Egypt is not our decision
> ...



Would you like other nations dictating who runs the USA?


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 13, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Mudwhistle, you are ruled by constitutional, electoral process.  Doesn't matter what you think.



You can think you're ruled. 

These pricks are supposed to be public servants, not rulers.

I suppose you're used to elitists telling you how to think.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 13, 2011)

Mud, I have voted Bush Daddy,  Bush Daddy, Clinton, Bush Son, green throw away vote, McCain.  I vote my conscience, but I abide by constitutional, electoral process.  All Americans do the same.


----------



## edthecynic (Feb 13, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


Code Pink Derangement Syndrome! 

Just another lie from GOP hate radio that only the CON$ervative Brotherhood is STUPID enough to believe.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 13, 2011)

Any American right, center, or left who has problem with NPR is an idiot.  End of discussion.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 13, 2011)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> ...



I don't like dictating anything.

I also don't like it when our government sneaks around and causes revolutions in our ally's countries. 

It's one thing to dictate how a country is run. It's another entirely to make friends with them and show them how being our friends can be a benefit.

But our government seems to think sticking a knife in their back is the best way to make friends.


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 13, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Any American right, center, or left who has problem with NPR is an idiot.  End of discussion.



Your opinion seems a bit biased.

NPR is a Liberal front. They use taxpayer's money to talk about diversity, torture, human-rights violations, discrimination, and listen to classical jazz. The only thing that separated them from Air America was they didn't cuss out the right 24/7. They specialize in fuzzy feel good sappy stories about underprivileged people that made it in life. When they covered the 9/12 project rally they did everything but throw the kitchen sink at them. They spent the entire coverage trying to ask each other what the rally was about. I guess the thought never crossed their minds to ask Glenn Beck. But since he's the Devil that would never happen.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 13, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



here's their link
CODEPINK : EGYPT

Update from CODEPINK Peace Delegation in Cairo
Tonight our CODEPINK delegation in Cairo returned to Tahrir Square after the terrible events of this afternoon, when Mubaraks thugs busted up their peaceful protest with rocks, sticks and molotov cocktails. Hundreds have been woundedtheir hands, legs, arms wrapped in bloody bandages. Despite the beatings, thousands of people are still camped out in the squareabsolutely determined to stay there until Mubarak goes.
CODEPINK : EGYPT


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 13, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Any American right, center, or left who has problem with NPR is an idiot.  End of discussion.
> ...



Let's not forget soros gave a big chunk of change to NPR
The firing of National Public Radio news analyst Juan Williams for comments made about Muslims, combined with leftwing billionaire George Soros recent $1.8 million donation to the organization, have reignited calls to end NPRs taxpayer subsidies.



Read more: Williams firing, Soros donation spark new calls to end NPR taxpayer subsidies | The Daily Caller - Breaking News, Opinion, Research, and Entertainment


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 13, 2011)

on February 4, 2011 Imam Khamenei spoke to the Iranian people if Egyptian government is removed it will be irreparable defeat for the United States of America.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 13, 2011)

But all know that the NPR is more honorable than Austrialian owned Fox News, which clearly does not have the U.S. best interest at its heart.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 13, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> But all know that the NPR is more honorable than Austrialian owned Fox News, which clearly does not have the U.S. best interest at its heart.



Justr keep posting jakey I know theirs a few here that get a few laughs from what you post. NPR taking money from the man who brought the british economy down and you claim them honorable? There's not one republican or consrevative I know of that will say that about NPR.


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 13, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Mudwhistle, you are ruled by constitutional, electoral process.  Doesn't matter what you think.


Mudwhistle is ruled by the voices in his head.


----------



## edthecynic (Feb 13, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


From your own link:



> CODEPINK                                                    Response:
> Of all the things Codepink HAS                                                    accomplished this                                                    past year we just can't                                                    take credit for the popular                                                    uprising in Egypt. Despite allegations                                                    that the pro-democracy demonstrators                                                    are led by militants and extremists,                                                    in fact the millions in Tahrir                                                    Square are predominately young                                                    people sick and tired of being                                                    unemployed in a repressive police                                                    state. All many have ever known                                                    in the despotic rule of Pres.                                                    Mubarak, propped up by $1 billion                                                    in aid every year fromt he U.S.                                                    taxpayers.
> Crowds in Cairo and other cities                                                    also include pharmacists, grandmothers,                                                    army officers, former employees                                                    of the state controlled t.v.                                                    station -- and yes, CODEPINK                                                    activists whose large pink banner                                                    "Solidarity with the Egyptian                                                    People! Codepink.org" was                                                    photographed in Tahrir and seen                                                    around the world.
> 
> We are proud of those who call                                                    for democracy no matter where                                                    in the world they are! And we                                                    call on Pres. Mubarak to step                                                    down now and allow for an orderly                                                    transition to a government of                                                    the people, by the people, and                                                    for the people!



The Egyptian revolution began Jan 25, 2011 well BEFORE Code Pink arrived in Egypt for completely different reasons!!!!

You have allowed yourself to be brainwashed by GOP hate radio and the CON$ervative Brotherhood.

CodePink's Response to the Controversy in Cairo | World | AlterNet

*Why Was CODEPINK in Cairo in the First Place?*
CODEPINK  was scheduled to lead a delegation through the Egyptian border to Gaza  from January 30  February 6, following the second anniversary of the  Israeli assault on Gaza. As the Egyptian uprising began, the Rafah  crossing into Gaza was closed, and the delegation has been caught up in  the breath-taking people's movement in Egypt.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 14, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
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> > edthecynic said:
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Man are you stupid ? I did not say they caused the protest, I said code pink was protesting with the muslim brotherhood.


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## edthecynic (Feb 14, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
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> > bigrebnc1775 said:
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Code Pink had nothing to do with Mubarak's only allowed political party, the CON$ervative/Muslim Brotherhood.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 14, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Mudwhistle, you are ruled by constitutional, electoral process.  Doesn't matter what you think.
> ...



No, voices. Just a conscience. Something the left doesn't have.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 14, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
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Oh, now you realize they're conservative.

After Obama turned NASA into a Muslim outreach program.

After you guys have been fighting to get a mosque at Ground Zero.

After you've been whining about poor Saddam being overthrown.

After Obama kissed every ass he could find in the Middle East.

After everyone has been saying that Islam is a religion of peace. 

After the White House decided that some Allah Achbar screaming asshole killing 13 soldiers at Ft Hood wasn't a terrorist act.

After Obama invited his friends in the Muslim Brotherhood to his speech in Cairo. 

I mean, really. Now that the Middle East is about to explode, now you realize they're Conservatives??? Now they suck??? 

All they want is freedom, solidarity, a new world order, workers of the world united in a common effort, DEMOCRACY!!!!! Blah, blah, blah. 

When the price of gas goes to $5 I'm gonna give the finger to every car with an Obama sticker on it because of this, cuz you assholes put this stupid fuck in power.


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## edthecynic (Feb 14, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> edthecynic said:
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> > bigrebnc1775 said:
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The CON$ervative Brotherhood and the Muslim Brotherhood are fellow travelers.

St Ronnie had already turned NASA into a Muslim outreach program in the middle 1980s.

There is no mosque at ground zero.

Honest people objected to the waste of 4,000 American lives and 40,000 American limbs so Bush Jr could avenge his worthless father.

Bush II is the Muslim kisser.

CON$ervatism is a religion of hate.

The Muslim Brotherhood are the friends of the CON$ervative Brotherhood. Obama has always taken on all hate groups, both foreign and domestic.

In Egypt the Muslim Brotherhood are considered too CON$ervative for a modern Egypt.

If gas hits $5/gal it's because big oil keeps capping productive oil wells. Remember the BP spill happened because the newly found oil well was not CAPPED properly. The new well was capped rather than brought into production!!!!!!

Don't you ever get tired of parroting the lies from GOP hate radio?????


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## LibocalypseNow (Feb 14, 2011)

It's gonna be funny watching the Dummies react once they wake up and realize that our U.S. Government just bought a Military Coup in Egypt. Top ranking Egyptian Generals met with this current White House before and during this Egyptian uprising. Will it be a wise investment for the U.S. Government? I guess we'll have to wait and see.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 14, 2011)

edthecynic said:


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Are you tring to divert attention to  the muslim brotherhood, are you insinuating they had something to do with the over throw? I wasn't, What I am saying that code pink was there with the muslim brotherhood protesting.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 14, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> mudwhistle said:
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> In Egypt the Muslim Brotherhood are considered too CON$ervative for a modern Egypt.


Stupid.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 14, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> edthecynic said:
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Why give them the finger when you can do what I do follow them and when they stop get out of your truck and cuss them face to face.


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## LibocalypseNow (Feb 14, 2011)

Oh i wouldn't be too worried about that. They're not gonna have real Democracy. They will blame America again though. But what else is new right? Oh,and it will also be..."THOSE EVIL JOOOOOOOOOOOOZ!!!!!!" Nothing changes.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 14, 2011)

LibocalypseNow said:


> Oh i wouldn't be too worried about that. They're not gonna have real Democracy. They will blame America again though. But what else is new right? Oh,and it will also be..."THOSE EVIL JOOOOOOOOOOOOZ!!!!!!" Nothing changes.



The Muslim Brotherhood just made a statement today that Sharia Law needs to be put in place in the new Egyptian government. Stoning for adultery, beheading for leaving Islam, women must wear a Burka, so-on and so forth.

And so it starts.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 14, 2011)

This MSNBC journalist gets spanked by a Middle Eastern expert. 

Click on the link if you want to hear what took place.

Videos  Glenn Beck


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## mudwhistle (Feb 14, 2011)

Oh, Democracy protests are taking place in Iran.

Obama is ignoring it again like last time.


Kind of puts it all in proper prospective.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 14, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Mudwhistle, you are ruled by constitutional, electoral process.  Doesn't matter what you think.
> ...


  Funny!


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## jckryan (Feb 14, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Oh, Democracy protests are taking place in Iran.
> 
> Obama is ignoring it again like last time.
> 
> ...




Dude, give it a rest. The U.S. (NO MATTER WHO IS PRESIDENT) should be handling these revolts/revolutions with EXTREME care. Let it take its course. The main argument of the Jihadist, terrorists, extremists, etc.. is that we meddle too much in their affairs. All we have to do is monitor and make the minimal efforts required to insure we don't get shafted. 
All that was needed in Egypt was the internet, cell phones and an Egyptian national who worked for Google.

Things are moving way too fast over there. You got to pick and choose your fights.


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## saveliberty (Feb 14, 2011)

Radical thought to be sure, but how about what is best for the US is an Egypt full of happy Egyptians.


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## jckryan (Feb 14, 2011)

saveliberty said:


> Radical thought to be sure, but how about what is best for the US is an Egypt full of happy Egyptians.




Egypt is the West's strongest ally. Despite the Muslim Brotherhood and Mubaraks hardline stance throughout the years. A large percentage of the population is under 30 years of age and many of them are college educated and speak English well (impossible in other Islamic states). They have had limited but more freedom than their counterparts and I'm sure they won't be giving that up any time soon. Considering they were the majority of the protestors.
Egypt has a long history of being ruled by the military (Sadat to Mubarak to where we are at now). The current high ranking military officials benefited by protecting Mubarak in the past. Then things went south when their enlisted and subordinates joined the masses.  They were rewarded financially in the past through ownership of businesses and should keep the extemists in check.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 14, 2011)

jckryan said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, Democracy protests are taking place in Iran.
> ...



I don't have to give it a rest. 

I see the hypocrisy here. Osama gave several speeches during the Egyptian riots. The Sadi King called him personally and told him to STFU and he still wouldn't stop.

Now during the Iranian riots he's totally silent and Hillary is mouthing off. Iran has been a serious problem for us since 79. Some of my buddies got shot up in Mogadishu in 93' thanks to Iranian interference. Most of the IEDs, the shape-charges that kill tanks, were made in Iran.

Give it a rest. Fuck you.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 14, 2011)

The hypocrisy is all yours, Mud.  A solid relationship is far important with Egypt than something how making this about BHO, which it isn't.


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## saveliberty (Feb 14, 2011)

Treating all Mideastern nations the same is not a good idea.  Best to show the contrast between Egypt  and Iran.  Bringing the current government to its knees in Iran is a good goal.  Indirectly supporting elements within Iran to meet that goal is a priority.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 14, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> The hypocrisy is all yours, Mud.  A solid relationship is far important with Egypt than something how making this about BHO, which it isn't.



I'm not the only one who said Obama has fucked this up. Every Middle East expert says he's screwed the pooch.

This has been a serious embarrassment to the United States.

This week they mouthed off at Europe. They have no shame. They're going around making enemies everywhere. The only reason dipshits like you haven't noticed it is because the media won't point it out to you.

The problem with folks like you is you never had to live through this shit before. You were probably still crapping in your diaper when Iran took over our embassy. I was in the military at the time. I've seen JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr., and Obama. I can tell the difference. Obama is not as much of a disaster as Carter was, but for some reason he doesn't seem to give a fuck about anything but Muslims and going on vacation. Oh, and spending tons of our money.


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## The Infidel (Feb 14, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> I'm not the only one who said Obama has fucked this up. Every Middle East expert says he's screwed the pooch.
> 
> *This has been a serious embarrassment to the United States.*
> 
> ...


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## saveliberty (Feb 14, 2011)

I don't mind being embrassed a little when we are right.  Here the President doesn't even have a game plan or consistent strategy.  He IS the embrassment.


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## Synthaholic (Feb 15, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> jckryan said:
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Of course he's silent - that's the smart move.  If he backs the protesters, the Iranian leadership will portray them as tools of the West, and discredit them, thereby excusing them to use force.

A portion of people in Tehran will know the truth, but people spread across the country who rely on government-controlled radio and media will believe it.

You're not too bright.


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## Synthaholic (Feb 15, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > The hypocrisy is all yours, Mud.  A solid relationship is far important with Egypt than something how making this about BHO, which it isn't.
> ...



Total bullshit.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 15, 2011)

saveliberty said:


> Treating all Mideastern nations the same is not a good idea.  Best to show the contrast between Egypt  and Iran.  Bringing the current government to its knees in Iran is a good goal.  Indirectly supporting elements within Iran to meet that goal is a priority.



It's obvious that bringing down an ally is more important to Obama then bringing down an enemy.

Mubarak was an ally. Iran is an enemy.

His silence speaks volumes. 

There's no other way a rational person can see it.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 15, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> mudwhistle said:
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You're a liberal hack that gobbles up Obama's propaganda and parrots it to anyone who'll listen. 

*So they didn't think the Egyptian protesters looked like tools of the West? *

Anderson Cooper got several wacks up side the head from folks that were yelling anti-American bullshit. They seemed to think we were helping the revolt. They were right.

 Now when it comes to an enemy Obama wants to play it safe. Instead of encouragement he disappears and wants to talk about his fucked up budget. He helps bring down an ally, a flawed ally none the less, but an ally. But our enemies, naw. Doesn't have the nuts to utter a word.

 While an ally was in trouble he wouldn't shut up. He repeatedly said that the process must start NOW. I remember everyone in the administration repeating that word. Iran, later, Egypt, now.

And what does this show our friends and our enemies???

It shows them that he's gutless. He'll sneak around and undermine our allies but our enemies.....well he's just too damned scared to say, *"Mr Gorbachev, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!!!!!"*


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## georgephillip (Feb 15, 2011)

*Who's In Charge?*

"Hosni Mubarak was a dictator who stole elections and reigned with an iron fist for 30 years. 

"America isn&#8217;t like that.

Right?

Right?

*"Ronald Reagan took office thirty years ago.* 

"He was a product of General Electric and the 'defense' industry, right down to his dyed roots. 

"George H.W. Bush, a subsidiary of the Carlyle Group, followed. Clinton took him down so as to deliver NAFTA, GATT, and The Telecommunications Act. 

"Then came Al Gor&#8230;oh, wait, right, another Bush, who was his own man, the kind of guy you&#8217;d like to have a beer with, because he wasn&#8217;t running anything. 

"Cheney, on the other hand, was still getting paid by Halliburton/KBR while in office, and yeah...he was the boss. Or was he?

*So, yeah, who&#8217;s been in charge?*

Hm."
Truthout


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## mudwhistle (Feb 15, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> *Who's In Charge?*
> 
> "Hosni Mubarak was a dictator who stole elections and reigned with an iron fist for 30 years.
> 
> ...



You're a God Damned liar. Cheney had to give up all interest with Haliburton while he was VP. He couldn't even own stock in the company because the Dems would attack him for it. 

MSNBC and NBC are ruled by General Electric. The Health Care bill helps make General Electric richer then shit with a new nationwide record keeping system. The charging stations for GMs new electric cars produced by you guessed it, General Electric. 

Mubarak wasn't killing our kids in Iraq and Afghanistan. Mubarak wasn't funding Hezbollah. But he had to go now. Iran can stay. Mubarak didn't institute Sharia Law in Egypt. Iran has a Theocracy based on Sharia Law in their country. Mubarak had to go. Iran can stay. 

Mubarak could have been encouraged to change. Iran cannot. So of course Mubarak had to go. Iran, they can stay. The public never heard shit about how bad it was in Egypt till Obama started spouting off about it, and in a matter of days Mubarak was gone. Everyone knows about Iran. 

CNN was talking about the wonderful people of Iran last year and the year before. Who cares that they were training the insurgents that were killing our troops in Iraq. They can stay. They were providing the explosives used to kill 90% of our dead. They can stay. But Mubarak, who never lifted a finger to kill one of our kids had to go now. Iran is building a nuke program as we speak. Weeks away from going nuke with the help of Russia, but they can stay. Egypt wasn't a threat but Mubarak had to go.

Makes perfect sense.


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## California Girl (Feb 15, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> > Treating all Mideastern nations the same is not a good idea.  Best to show the contrast between Egypt  and Iran.  Bringing the current government to its knees in Iran is a good goal.  Indirectly supporting elements within Iran to meet that goal is a priority.
> ...



Actually, there is another way that rational people can see it. Obama did not bring Mubarak down. Mubarak was responsible for his own demise. Egypt is our ally, not Mubarak. As long as Egypt doesn't go the way Iran did in '79, and the people get what they want - democracy - then their relationship with the US and Israel will be fine. The concern, of course, is that the Muslim Brotherhood will initiate a power grab. 

And, Obama should STFU about Iran. We cannot be seen to interfere there - but, a smart POTUS would be throwing support QUIETLY behind the protesters. We would do well to remember that we do not know everything that our Government is doing in the region... and that is a good thing. 

Stop being so damned simplistic and narrow minded. It ain't all about Obama.


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## California Girl (Feb 15, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> *Who's In Charge?*
> 
> "Hosni Mubarak was a dictator who stole elections and reigned with an iron fist for 30 years.
> 
> ...



Haven't you got a revolution to organize? 


Idiot.


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## editec (Feb 15, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > The hypocrisy is all yours, Mud. A solid relationship is far important with Egypt than something how making this about BHO, which it isn't.
> ...


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## mudwhistle (Feb 15, 2011)

California Girl said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > saveliberty said:
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So Hillary doesn't work for Obama????? She's the only member of the Obama Administration that's saying anything. She's announced that she is going to give a major speech today on Iran. Obama is silent. She's mouthing off. Obama can silence her but he won't. He doesn't want to appear like the US is encouraging peace in Iran then he needs to tell Hillary to STFU.

But Obama had no problem cutting loose on Egypt. That one was easy. Iran is a tough nut to crack and he shows no leadership. He leaves the dirty work to Hillary.

I'm not being simplistic and narrow-minded. As a matter of fact, everyone else is.


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## georgephillip (Feb 15, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > *Who's In Charge?*
> ...


Dick (the five time draft dodger) Cheney has his Halliburton dividends put in Trust until he left office. He has not sent any of it to "our kids" crippled by the wars he helped instigate, as far as I know.

Are you feeling bitchy that Reagan wasn't the only politician GE ever bought? Although Obama lacks the Gippers formal training in lying to the masses, his skin color more than compensates.

"Mubarak could have been encouraged to change."
By whom?
Muhammad?
Allah?
Dick Cheney?

Anyone who was paying attention during the last thirty years knew Mubarak's legacy of serving rich Wall Street parasites at least as loyally as Reagan or Obama.

They were also aware of Mubarak's commitment to torture, not unlike Cheney and Obama.

His support for illegal US invasions in Afghanistan and Iraq should qualify as "lifting a finger to kill one of our kids", but that only makes "perfect sense" to those not hopelessly brainwashed by corporate talking points.

*Like you and Dick and Obama.*


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## mudwhistle (Feb 15, 2011)

Journalists tried to praise Obama for his participation in the Egyptian revolution.  Experts said he should have remained silent in public and negotiated in private. He chose to go public again and again and again. He tried to own the revolution. Take credit for it. Now he's silent and he sends out Hillary to give speeches when he knows full well those Mullas will never listen to a woman. He's ether brilliant or totally ignorant.


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## georgephillip (Feb 15, 2011)

California Girl said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > *Who's In Charge?*
> ...


I'm experiencing a temporary shortage of followers.




Tricky.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 15, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> mudwhistle said:
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I'm a little confused here. Do you want us to suggest or tell other countries what to do?

Just asking. 

Oh, and maybe you could spare me the constant string of liberal talking points. 

Btw, Egypt's new government has lifted the ban preventing the Muslim Brotherhood from taking part in the political process.


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## editec (Feb 15, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
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As my former local politics mentor once noted

*There's no there, there.*

There will be no revolution in the USA.

A _coup d' etat_ is possible, I suppose, but it will happen (has happened?) and really... nobody will notice much change except at the top.

If anything the USA is headed to some kind of civil war, and that likely initiated by the right, not the left.

Our gun queer population of extremists to the right are just itching for the opportunity to off their neighbors... just as soon as they think they can get away with it.

When you think of the problems that we might be facing don't think in terms of the French revolution, nor the USA revolution, either.

Think in terms of the mess we saw in Yugoslavia.


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## saveliberty (Feb 15, 2011)

I am pretty tired of the mentally ill conspiracists derailing threads with bullshit.  Shouldn't you be out building an underground shelter?


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## edthecynic (Feb 15, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> *Anderson Cooper got several wacks up side the head from folks that were yelling anti-American bullshit. *They seemed to think we were helping the revolt. They were right.


Those "folks" yelling anti-American bullshit were Mubarak's thugs. That's why the anti-American CON$ervative Brotherhood supports Mubarak!!!!

Journalists targeted, beaten, detained by Mubarak supporters - CNN

Sent as reporters to document the turmoil in Egypt, journalists on  Wednesday became targets --* beaten, bloodied, harassed and detained by  raging men, most all in some way aligned with embattled President Hosni  Mubarak.*
 Numerous news outlets -- including the BBC, ABC News and  CNN -- reported members of their staffs had been attacked, most on the  streets of Cairo. In several cases, news personnel were accused of being  "foreign spies," seized and whisked away, and often assaulted.
 "It  was pandemonium. There was no control. Suddenly a man would come up to  you and punch you in the face," said CNN's *Anderson Cooper, describing  being attacked by pro-Mubarak demonstrators* with two colleagues outside  of Tahir Square.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 15, 2011)

editec said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > California Girl said:
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Yeah, Christians vs Muslims. 

Problem is it's Muslims and Atheists that  are doing most of the shooting here in the US

(See Tuscan and Ft Hood)


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## ogibillm (Feb 15, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Btw, Egypt's new government has lifted the ban preventing the Muslim Brotherhood from taking part in the political process.



in what way is that a bad thing? is it a good idea to repress a minority because you don't like what they say?


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## mudwhistle (Feb 15, 2011)

ogibillm said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Btw, Egypt's new government has lifted the ban preventing the Muslim Brotherhood from taking part in the political process.
> ...



Did you fall out of a stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down?


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## mudwhistle (Feb 15, 2011)

I know. Let's give Attula The Hun, the SS, the KKK, and Pol-Pot a seat at the table too


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 15, 2011)

If the radical right in this country starts shooting, the left the center the responsible right will put them against the wall.  End of story.  They will have never have the numbers nor the nuts to try it.


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## ogibillm (Feb 15, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> ogibillm said:
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just so we're clear you're in favor of limiting the rights of people based on their political viewpoints? 

does that sound like a good way to start a new democracy?


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## saveliberty (Feb 15, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> I'm a little confused here. Do you want us to suggest or tell other countries what to do?
> 
> Just asking.
> 
> ...



As long as the Muslim Brotherhood is not linked to current terrorist acts why should they be excluded?


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 15, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
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Then, by your reasoning, much makes great sense, of the right of the Tea Party ever comes the majority, it must be repressed by government action.

You are not even a republican constitutionalist.  You are a fascist, a totalitarian, who wants your side in and the hell with everybody else. Go to.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 15, 2011)

ogibillm said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
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I don't know. If their viewpoints are to commit genocide against Israel, throw women into abject slavery, and murder anyone who doesn't go along with them............yeah, I have a problem with them running the government in any capacity.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 15, 2011)

I guess your Separation of Church and State argument just went down the toilet


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## ogibillm (Feb 15, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
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> > mudwhistle said:
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you'd make a wonderful dictator.


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## FA_Q2 (Feb 15, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
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> ...


Unfortunately for you, you live in a country that disagrees with this view.  Here, in America, we are allowed to have ANY viewpoint and speak out politically.  We can even run for office.


mudwhistle said:


> I know. Let's give Attula The Hun, the SS, the KKK, and Pol-Pot a seat at the table too


If they were Americans and not currently incarcerated then they already do have a voice in government and can run for office.  As a matter of fact, the KKK has a voice right now.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 15, 2011)

Yuu're good with it long as they ain't Christians.


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## jckryan (Feb 15, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
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Let's not get all Boehner (could not resist) now . . . nothing against him or the Republicans.

Take a look at the big picture. 

Egypts movement was in their favor, the protesters were an overwhelming force to get Mubarak out and for Democratic changes. I'm not going out on a limb by stating they're the most educated/civil Middle Eastern country . . . besides maybe Israel . . . and therefore have an advantage over others. 
We knew that we could _not_ support the dictatorship vs. that. Do you think we should have gone "all-in" with Mubarak? It would have been the worst case scenario. "The U.S. supports Mubarak". Effigys of Obama/the Stars and Stripes would be burning and the Muslim Brotherhood minority would roll with it. It would have been a Brotherhood majority that kicked Mubarak out.

Iran is a different ball game. The protestors and the goverment/military has had a few weeks to prepare and learn from Egypt. The government is more extreme and we barely have any influence over there. Plus they have organized thugs who have no issues going ballistic on the protesters. 
What are we supposed to do? Invade Iran? Put a Black Ops in to assasinate Irans Heads of State and Mullah? Do you really think they give a *#@%? about what we say regarding Iran? Iran does not have the masses like Egypt and I'm sure the goverment has put a vice on the media/internet to prevent large gatherings. They have had time to learn what works and what they can get away with.

Yemen is another prob. There is a strong Al-Queda influence there and the protesters are not looking for democracy. At least not like Egypt.

Bahrain is an ally and a strategic area for us with the ports. I'm concerned with that area and if U.S. miltary aid is requested . . . that would be tricky.

What does Obama actions (or lack of) show for the rest of our "allies" and enemies?

I know that Saudi Arabia should be considered an ally even though they produced Bin Laden, some of the 9/11 hijackers, and a couple of sheiks that may financially support questionable groups. We invested a lot in them. From training to military hardware. 

Likewise with Pakistan, although some of the allegiances are not for the U.S. and there is a stronger Taliban support presence there. 

Both countries are dicey should an uprising come up. Not so much the Saudis, because they got the mullah and lots of it. But the Pakis might be ugly.

Each country is case by case.

Been to Somalia and the Persian Gulf for three and half years. I know what Iran is about.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 15, 2011)

saveliberty said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a little confused here. Do you want us to suggest or tell other countries what to do?
> ...



I tend to listen and believe someone when they say they are going institute Sharia Law, which means stoning for adultery, women becoming cattle, beheadings for blasphemy, and scrapping the peace treaty with Israel. 

I guess in a free country anyone can say what they want. When they start becoming part of the political process by forming a political party such as the GOP or the Democrat, and start influencing people from inside the government, it's only just a matter of time before their beliefs start becoming law. 

If you want Egypt to take a huge step backwards and destabilize an important area of the Middle East, then go ahead and give them a seat. 

*Obama said that oil is an energy source of the past.* Is this his way of assuring this happens??? Because if all hell breaks loose then I guess you might want to think of alternatives to electricity and gasoline. You won't be able to afford ether.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 15, 2011)

Mudwhistle does not believe in government of the people, by the people, and for the people.  Until he repudiates his statements about democracy, nothing he says needs to be considered as valuable.


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## The Infidel (Feb 15, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> I tend to listen and believe someone when they say they are going institute Sharia Law, which means stoning for adultery, women becoming cattle, beheadings for blasphemy, and scrapping the peace treaty with Israel.
> 
> I guess in a free country anyone can say what they want. When they start becoming part of the political process by forming a political party such as the GOP or the Democrat, and start influencing people from inside the government, it's only just a matter of time before their beliefs start becoming law.
> 
> If you want Egypt to take a huge step backwards and destabilize an important area of the Middle East, then go ahead and give them a seat.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 15, 2011)

jckryan said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



Noted. 

In my opinion the Obama Administration handled the situation poorly. Obama should have acted like he has with Iran. My problem is with his double-standards here. Obama made the United States an even bigger target with his actions. The Muslim Street hates us even more because of his Administrations meddling in their affairs. I kept yelling at the television, "Why doesn't he just shut the fuck up. You're only making things worse!!!!"

He didn't show the kind of diplomacy the situation required. Not all of his people were on the same sheet of music. They appeared ill-prepared and amateurish.  Because of that we'll pay a price with the people of Egypt. Many of them will resent our involvement. In 09' Obama was welcome in Cairo. Not today. 

I just wish he would show the same concern for the people of Iran as he did for Egypt, but he didn't. Everyone deserves to live in peace, not just one country. Freedom is everyone's right, not something for this person but not for another. The simple fact that nobody cares about the people of Iran at this time is what condemns them. No pressure is being brought to bare on them so they have no reason to change. They even confessed that because the international community doesn't care they don't feel like giving their people a thing. Who cares that people are getting killed, thrown in prison, and tortured as we speak. It's not our problem.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 15, 2011)

Gives us the stats MudWhistle and The Infidel that Egyptians as a whole intend to rule like Iran.

You can't because such don't exist.

The Egyptians are no more going to install sharia law than we would ever permit the far right religious loonies install a theocracy in America.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 15, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Gives us the stats MudWhistle and The Infidel that Egyptians as a whole intend to rule like Iran.
> 
> You can't because such don't exist.
> 
> The Egyptians are no more going to install sharia law than we would ever permit the far right religious loonies install a theocracy in America.



You're only fooling yourself sport if you think muslims would rule any other way.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 15, 2011)

Give us the stats, not your silly opinions, biggie, that only make the rest of us giggle.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 15, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Give us the stats, not your silly opinions, biggie, that only make the rest of us giggle.



I am laughing at you make me stop. Show ma some facts show me something than what the history of that culture has done. Did w see Afghanstan as that before we went there?


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 15, 2011)

You have nothing then.  A secular Turkey?  A secular Jordan? So forth so on?  Yeah, you are risible.  That is why those who think as you are in such a minority.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 15, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Gives us the stats MudWhistle and The Infidel that Egyptians as a whole intend to rule like Iran.
> 
> You can't because such don't exist.
> 
> The Egyptians are no more going to install sharia law than we would ever permit the far right religious loonies install a theocracy in America.



Keep thinking that dipshit.

It's moving even faster then I thought. The Muslim Brotherhood is forming their own party and will be involved in elections. Let's see how long it takes for them to turn the people against Israel. I'm told 65% already are in favor of scrapping the Camp David peace accord. That is not good. 

The Muslim Brotherhood


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 15, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> You have nothing then.  A secular Turkey?  A secular Jordan? So forth so on?  Yeah, you are risible.  That is why those who think as you are in such a minority.



As I said jake I'm laughing at you and your foolishness.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 15, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Gives us the stats MudWhistle and The Infidel that Egyptians as a whole intend to rule like Iran.
> ...



WHO TOLD YOU, you constitution hater?  Bigrebnc?  For heaven's sake, Mudwhistle, let's figure a way to direct their foreign policy.  Don't you get it?  The Egyptians threw out a dictator.  If they want a democracy, we are stuck with it.  So, what do we do?  Please do not suggest nukes.  The British and French would nuke us if we did that.


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## jckryan (Feb 15, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> jckryan said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...




The way it was handled was a catch-22 for any administration. The result was a _better_ (not the best) case scenario. The Brotherhood did not have any pin-up material (like smack talk opposing teams put up in the locker room before the big game) about the U.S. supporting Mubarak. They could not get that support from the majority college educated youngsters. 
The military which has been in control for decades have kept the Brotherhood at bay, it would be in their best interests if they kept on doing it. The Brotherhood . . . although dangerous . . . is a minority in Egypt. By some off chance, imagine if they took power. They would have to make drastic changes in the military and get rid of nearly a quarter of a million people. Because extremists/dictators fear the educated. It could happen, but seriously.
Another thing, although the economy sucks all over. They don't want to end up like Iran's economy. Tourists will be less likely to visit the Nile, Pyramids, etc.. if it is controlled by extremists. Tourism is huge over there.

Iran is tough. I really can't give you anything. The goverment bypasses any sanctions by dealing with Russia and China . . . another *#%?! up issue. We start getting into it with Iran (aside from the "strongly opposing the use of violence") and Iran will cry U.S. involvement. They will also probably kiss Moscow's/Beijing's ass for moral support. If Russia/China stopped trading with Iran, then we would have more pull.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 15, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



With your views you are the one that hates the constitution. Or do you like it the way it is? Do you want any changes made to it?>


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## jckryan (Feb 15, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Gives us the stats MudWhistle and The Infidel that Egyptians as a whole intend to rule like Iran.
> ...




That link is fact and opinion. The writer should have proof-read the article first, the 21st of February is a week away (probably a typo). I know about the Brotherhood and the history is spot on. But, still think that the Egyptian population is the most westernized arabic country there is and it will be a tough sell.

The young/educated/independent women won't take it and if they are forced to flee Egypt . . . the man-to-woman ratio will really suck.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 15, 2011)

jckryan said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



I imagine the women will shoot the al-quada and MB types if they get in the way.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 15, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



You constitution hater???
Jesus, you sound like a nut-job.

Democracy has nothing to do with a friggen constitution. Only the formation of a Republic leads to a constitution. 

The problem here is they may want a Democracy but like I've pointed out Democracy is just a flowery term for LET'S STEP ALL OVER THE RIGHTS OF THE MINORITY. If we had a Democracy here we never would have had a civil rights movement. It wouldn't have mattered. The minority has no power. Once the majority in Egypt decides on the Muslim Brotherhood the rest of the population will have no say.


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## jckryan (Feb 15, 2011)

California Girl said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > saveliberty said:
> ...




_I think I'm in love_


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## mudwhistle (Feb 15, 2011)

jckryan said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



I'm sure the women are gonna stand up to thugs and guns, just like they do in Saudi Arabia, and everywhere else that is under Sharia Law.

Yes, what a feather in the Turban of Islamic radicals if Egypt were to fall into their hands. 


Oh.....no that could never ever happen....because the press and Obama tells me it won't happen.  DON'T WORRY!!!

These people are more sneaky about what they do then you give them credit for. Everything will be going along fine, then BOOM, they start protesting wages or some stupid shit and shut down the Suez Canal. Then they'll start blackmailing us to bail on Israel. Then more demands and more. 

I wish things would go great, but I'm a realist, not one of your pie-in-the-sky fairytale dreaming Obama zombies.


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## jckryan (Feb 15, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> jckryan said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...




I'm sure the Brotherhood will try to undermine everything. But the economy was crap before the revolution, many were young, UNEMPLOYED, and held college degrees. The same situation we got here. 
There were more English-speaking man (woman)-on-the-street interviews compared to say Iraq or Iran. The man-to-woman comment was a joke. 

The Egyptian revolution was *their *fairytale. We'll see what happens in the next chapter . . .


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 15, 2011)

Mudwhistle simply is whining.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 15, 2011)

jckryan said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



She's just giving me a hard time. Doing a driveby on me.

Besides, unless you're a Marine or at least an officer forget it.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 15, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Mudwhistle simply is whining.



No.  I'm just trying to beat some sense into your thick skull.

Problem is all that's in there is bone and bong-resin.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 15, 2011)

jckryan said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > jckryan said:
> ...



I know. 

Ever notice how Obama talks about educating our youth all of the time, but he just doesn't get around to how they're gonna find jobs. 

Imagine thousands of unemployed college graduates holding their degree in one hand and their dicks in the other. No jobs anywhere. 

Sound like Egypt, doesn't it?


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 15, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Mudwhistle simply is whining.
> ...



You are dead ass wrong on this, Mud.  The Egyptians will control their future, not us.  We should influence where we can, but the bad old days of Guatemala and Iran and Vietnam and Iraq are gone forever.

We try what you want, and the rest of the world will not tolerate it.

And for somone who screams about the will of the people here being denied, you sure deny that to the Egyptian people.

No way in the world we want your thinking enshrined in DC.


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## idb (Feb 16, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> > Treating all Mideastern nations the same is not a good idea.  Best to show the contrast between Egypt  and Iran.  Bringing the current government to its knees in Iran is a good goal.  Indirectly supporting elements within Iran to meet that goal is a priority.
> ...



What was the US to do then?
Encourage Mubarak to crush a popular uprising with force?
Maybe send in the Blackhawks to help him out?

Maybe advising him that the writing was on the wall, putting an arm around his shoulders and suggesting that he leave with some dignity was the best thing one friend could do for another.


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## idb (Feb 16, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> jckryan said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



The US has no influence or leverage in Iran though.
How would it look for you to be making statements or threats that were completely ignored and/or ridiculed and that everyone knew to be empty?
It would make you look even weaker and more innefectual in the Middle East than you already are.


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## idb (Feb 16, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



We're not a republic and we have a constitution............................just sayin'...


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## BrianH (Feb 16, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Let's face it. They hate us. No election in any Middle Eastern country is going to put in place a government that is friendly to our country or our primary ally, Israel.
> 
> It also doesn't help that Obama has been actively running this revolution from the White House. They don't want to give the impression this is an American operation but it's getting harder and harder to hide the fact. Guess it just depends on what people are willing to believe.
> 
> ...



The strategic importance of Egypt is that our ships carrying OIL and other GOODS travel through the Suez Canal (Controlled by Egypt) every day.  But that's our fault...we should get our noses out of everyone's affairs and learn to be self-sustaining on our own land rather than relying on other countries.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 16, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



You're a fool. A pathetic mindnumb zombie. You failed to see the Elephant in the room.

*If you and I have little or no say in who becomes our leaders, how much less do the people of Egypt have a say in who will be theirs, what policies will become law.*

They'll be manipulated and tricked into voting for people that say they have their needs in mind but in the long run will only turn around and give them the shaft. We've been seeing it in America, a country that is said to be one of the most autonomous countries in the world. 

All you have to do to get people to vote for you is play on their emotions. That's how Obama got elected and that's how the Muslim Brotherhood will gain power. *The unemployed* can be fooled into voting for just about anything they're promised. 

I guess this is why Democrats love the unemployed so much. The more the better. This is why they love to talk about education. Get them pissed off at the United States by filling their heads full of nonsense and next thing you know you've got a revolution. Bring down all of those rich fat-cats. Make em pay for their crimes.....imaginary or otherwise.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 16, 2011)

idb said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > saveliberty said:
> ...



I don't think all of the calls for him to step down now in the world press helped. 

You suggest that we act diplomatic and keep the talks private. Well it's too late for that.


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## editec (Feb 16, 2011)

So far I think that the US position regarding Egypt has been sage.

Now it seldom happens that I completely approve of US foreign policy, so that's sayin' something.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 16, 2011)

idb said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > jckryan said:
> ...



Kind of like the threats President Ackmadinigadwhatever constantly throws at us???

Ever notice that it's a common practice in the Middle East to throw out threats and then negotiate behind the scenes? It's a face-saving tactic that is used often.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 16, 2011)

editec said:


> So far I think that the US position regarding Egypt has been sage.
> 
> Now it seldom happens that I completely approve of US foreign policy, so that's sayin' something.



It doesn't hurt that there's a Democrat in the White House. That had nothing to do with it of course.

I think Obama ether took advantage of the situation or he knew going in what was gonna be the outcome. Obama has shown in the past he hasn't the balls to be a leader. He does however like to jump on the wagon and start acting like he's driving the thing.

Rumor has it Mubarak is in very poor health and was ready to go anyway. Obama showed no foresight nor tact in his approach. He chose to trash him in public. In the Middle East that is unforgivable. That's what you do to your enemies, not your allies.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 16, 2011)

Surprise!!!!

An 8 member group will be writing the new Egyprtian constitution. 

A member of the Muslim Brotherhood is in that group. 

Reports out of Cairo are that it should take 10 days to write it. 

WOW!!

Color me surprised!!!!

From my experience it takes months for a Democracy to decide the color of shit much less write a constitution. It will take a week to print copies of the constitution yet they think they can get it done in that little time?


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## editec (Feb 16, 2011)

I think it interesting that Mubarak was already sick and about ready to go.

This does make me wonder if perhaps the Military decided to allow the protestors to drive him out just so that the military would be deciding who was going to take over instead of Mubarak.

This is all *pure speculation* on my part, incidently.

But if the top brass wanted to jettison Mubarak's control over who took top post when he left office, then allowing the people to drive him out would be a great way for them to pull of a_ coup d etat_ and seem like they weren't in charge, would it not?


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## saveliberty (Feb 16, 2011)

They got puters, them mo bile phones and fax mochines in Egypt.  Is it really that hard to plagerize someone else's Constitution and change a few words around?  It ain't 1775.

Oh look, a wheel!

*throws away*

We'll just reinvent that later.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 16, 2011)

saveliberty said:


> They got puters, them mo bile phones and fax mochines in Egypt.  Is it really that hard to plagerize someone else's Constitution and change a few words around?  It ain't 1775.
> 
> Oh look, a wheel!
> 
> ...


LMAO

I thnk it's already written. 

It's called the Koran


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 16, 2011)

saveliberty said:


> They got puters, them mo bile phones and fax mochines in Egypt.  Is it really that hard to plagerize someone else's Constitution and change a few words around?  It ain't 1775.
> 
> Oh look, a wheel!
> 
> ...



They could use this one with little modification.

http://www.usaid.gov/wbg/misc/Amended_Basic_Law.pdf


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## idb (Feb 16, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



No, you were saying that, because Mubarak was an ally, the US should have looked after him somehow.
My question was, how what would that look like?
Direct action?


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## ogibillm (Feb 16, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Surprise!!!!
> 
> An 8 member group will be writing the new Egyprtian constitution.
> 
> A member of the Muslim Brotherhood is in that group.


by most accounts the muslim brotherhood represents somewhere between 20-30% of egypts population. sounds like 12.5% is under-representation. you should be happy.


> Reports out of Cairo are that it should take 10 days to write it.
> 
> WOW!!
> 
> ...



got a lot of experience setting up democracies, do you? and since when does it take weeks to print anything? i could make 500 copies of our consititution today using my office copier. it takes literally no time to distribute documents online. 

do they not have kinkos in egypt?


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## mudwhistle (Feb 16, 2011)

idb said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...


No. Obama should have STFU

Seems he has a problem telling friend from foe. Right from wrong. Good from bad.  He backs down from our enemies and treats our friends like shit.


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## idb (Feb 16, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



No, not like that at all.
If the USA, with their supposed overwhelming resources and moral authority, makes a demand to Iran and they show the finger, it makes the USA look weak and stupid and empty.
This then emboldens other states, further weakening the USA's position.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 16, 2011)

ogibillm said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Surprise!!!!
> ...



I don't think so. 

And we're talking thousands of copies. 

But that's beside the point. 

I think it should take more effort then simply cut and paste. 

Irag has been writing theirs for years and it still isn't done.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 16, 2011)

Mudwhistle is absolutely wrong, and so are the 13 people in America who agree with him.  The admin handled about as well as could have been handled.  End of Mubarek's story, and now we will see what the continuing part of the story is from here for Egypt.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 16, 2011)

idb said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Excuses, excuses. After all of the apoligizing now you're worried about appearing weak.  Too late for that. 

I wonder how weak we looked when we let the Prez of iran flip us the bird at the UN the last couple of years?


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## idb (Feb 16, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...


I don't care about you appearing weak, I don't live in the US.
If you think it serves your country to lie on the floor, stamp your feet and hold your breath until you turn blue if you don't get your own way...well, we'll never agree.

What about Ahmedinajad spouting his shit at you at the UN?
So he hurt your feelings...on the other hand, if you guys make threats at Iran you had better be prepared to back them up.
The USA is the one with the position of authority and influence to protect.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 16, 2011)

Don't worry, idb, the U.S. is not weak.  Only Mudwhistle worries about America appearing weak.  And MW is not making foreign policy.  We are in good shape.


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## saveliberty (Feb 16, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Mudwhistle is absolutely wrong, and so are the 13 people in America who agree with him.  The admin handled about as well as could have been handled.  End of Mubarek's story, and now we will see what the continuing part of the story is from here for Egypt.



Obama made big mistakes here.  The mixed messages he sent publicly was a very bad showing to the entire Middle East.  Every nation there is scratching their heads wondering what happened to a 30 year history of cooperation.


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## LibocalypseNow (Feb 16, 2011)

I don't think so. The Egyptian Military will be running the show there for a long time. The U.S. basically owns them. The two worked very closely in removing Mubarak. They have very close ties. This wont be changing anytime soon. Democracy in Egypt will not hurt the U.S. in the end.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 16, 2011)

LibocalypseNow said:


> I don't think so. The Egyptian Military will be running the show there for a long time. The U.S. basically owns them. The two worked very closely in removing Mubarak. They have very close ties. This wont be changing anytime soon. Democracy in Egypt will not hurt the U.S. in the end.



The Army said they're turning over power to the civilians in about 6 months. 

I think this has all been in the works for some time.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 16, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Don't worry, idb, the U.S. is not weak.  Only Mudwhistle worries about America appearing weak.  And MW is not making foreign policy.  We are in good shape.



During the Iranian uprising by March everything seemed fine. By November they took over our embassy. Things move fast when they have no fear of retaliation. We even have the same guy that was in the White House during the Carter years. United States Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski was Carter's aide and is now an adviser to Obama. 

Boy, I feel so much safer now.

Brzezinski helped broker the Camp David accord, turned over control to the Panama Canal, and SALT II. Brzezinski "repeatedly assured Pahlavi (the Shaw) that the U.S. backed him fully."

Yup, they're shaking in their sandals Jake.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 16, 2011)

Can I have your attention please
How many here in this discussion thinks jake starkey is a liberal?



JakeStarkey said:


> Don't worry, idb, the U.S. is not weak.  Only Mudwhistle worries about America appearing weak.  And MW is not making foreign policy.  We are in good shape.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 16, 2011)

Look at what the peaceful demonstrators in Egypt have done......and the Mainstream Media is covering up:


> CBS Reporter Sexually Assaulted in Egypt
> 
> 
> 
> ...



During the assault the attackers were screaming "Jeeeeeeew, Jeeeeeew, Jeeeeeeew, Jeeeeeeew, Jew!!!!!"

This should be a serious problem and result in dire consequences, but Obama hasn't said a thing about it. He's focusing on telling tales about the budget.

I remember the good ole days of Reagan. If you fucked with us he bombed your house.


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## LibocalypseNow (Feb 16, 2011)

Arabs are deranged kooks. We should leave the Middle East entirely. We have nothing in common with them other than the fact we want to buy their oil and they want to sell it. They really are very irrational and hateful for the most part. Time for us to get the Hell out of there.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 16, 2011)

Yup, the Iranians and Egyptians are all the same type of Muslims, MudW?  You know the  Iranians are Persians?  So, by your logic, the Christian revolutions of America, France, and Russia all should have turned out the same way.  And don't even think of asking bigreb for advice.  He can't even find his way out of the basement.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 16, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Look at what the peaceful demonstrators in Egypt have done......and the Mainstream Media is covering up:
> 
> 
> > CBS Reporter Sexually Assaulted in Egypt
> ...



Crap on Reagan: he scampered out of Lebanon.  

Sounds like some Christian evangelicals I know that have gone bad who assaulted the journalist.  Noticed who saved her.

One incident does not a trend make.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 16, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Yup, the Iranians and Egyptians are all the same type of Muslims, MudW?  You know the  Iranians are Persians?  So, by your logic, the Christian revolutions of America, France, and Russia all should have turned out the same way.  And don't even think of asking bigreb for advice.  He can't even find his way out of the basement.



I studied Persian-farsi and Arabic. 

I know the fucken difference. 

Btw, Persians are the first Arian race.


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## goyim (Feb 16, 2011)

1. egypt along with the rest of the middle east has the right as sovereign nations to govern themselves without any interference from the united states regardless of 'how dangerous' it is to our country.

2. why should we care about the deaths of israelis?  they are NOT U.S. citizens, have nothing to do with our country AND bring all their turmoil upon themselves.  

it's time the US adopts a non-interventionist and prepares to rebuild instead of worrying about israel and meddling in other countries' affairs.


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## jckryan (Feb 16, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> jckryan said:
> 
> 
> > California Girl said:
> ...




Geez . . . you're a knuckledragger or worse.  We had to ship your *sses  all over the place and then patch you up (corpsmen) when ya went running into some cross-fire. Her statndards can't be that low.


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## saveliberty (Feb 16, 2011)

goyim said:


> 1. egypt along with the rest of the middle east has the right as sovereign nations to govern themselves without any interference from the united states regardless of 'how dangerous' it is to our country.
> 
> 2. why should we care about the deaths of israelis?  they are NOT U.S. citizens, have nothing to do with our country AND bring all their turmoil upon themselves.
> 
> it's time the US adopts a non-interventionist and prepares to rebuild instead of worrying about israel and meddling in other countries' affairs.



We should care about the deaths of anyone on this planet.  You can't seriously expect any nation to have its interests stop at a border.


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## LibocalypseNow (Feb 16, 2011)

The U.S. owns Egypt's Military and Egypt's Military owns Egypt. Do the Math. This new "Democracy" in Egypt isn't going to hurt the U.S. It's not Checkers,it's Chess. Wake up people. SHEESH!


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## mudwhistle (Feb 16, 2011)

LibocalypseNow said:


> The U.S. owns Egypt's Military and Egypt's Military owns Egypt. Do the Math. This new "Democracy" in Egypt isn't going to hurt the U.S. It's not Checkers,it's Chess. Wake up people. SHEESH!



We used to think that in Iran when we had the Shaw.

The rest is history.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 16, 2011)

Because folks like Mudwhistle think they can control other countries despite the peoples' wishes.  Doesn't work that way as we found it Iran and as we are finding out in Iraq and Afghanistan.  As the British found out about their North American colonists.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 16, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Because folks like Mudwhistle think they can control other countries despite the peoples' wishes.  Doesn't work that way as we found it Iran and as we are finding out in Iraq and Afghanistan.  As the British found out about their North American colonists.



Really what happen in egypt was what the people of egypt wanted?

*Egypt protests: America's secret backing for rebel leaders behind uprising*
The American government secretly backed leading figures behind the Egyptian uprising who have been planning regime change for the past three years, The Daily Telegraph has learned. 
Egypt protests: America's secret backing for rebel leaders behind uprising - Telegraph


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## idb (Feb 16, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Because folks like Mudwhistle think they can control other countries despite the peoples' wishes.  Doesn't work that way as we found it Iran and as we are finding out in Iraq and Afghanistan.  As the British found out about their North American colonists.
> ...



Don't forget CodePink, bigrednec, it could never have happened without their nefarious activities!


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 16, 2011)

idb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



Do you have anything that will show that the information I posted is wrong other than your opinion? Why would code pink go and protest for a sexist people like muslim?


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## idb (Feb 16, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


I'm agreeing with you - they were clearly the driving force behind the whole revolution...now, if we could just figure out their dastardly plan......hmmmm!


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 16, 2011)

Really what happen in egypt was what the people of egypt wanted?

*Egypt protests: America's secret backing for rebel leaders behind uprising*
The American government secretly backed leading figures behind the Egyptian uprising who have been planning regime change for the past three years, The Daily Telegraph has learned. 
Egypt protests: America's secret backing for rebel leaders behind uprising - Telegraph


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## idb (Feb 16, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Really what happen in egypt was what the people of egypt wanted?
> 
> *Egypt protests: America's secret backing for rebel leaders behind uprising*
> The American government secretly backed leading figures behind the Egyptian uprising who have been planning regime change for the past three years, The Daily Telegraph has learned.
> Egypt protests: America's secret backing for rebel leaders behind uprising - Telegraph



Don't forget CodePink, bigrednec, it could never have happened without their nefarious activities!


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 16, 2011)

Really what happen in egypt was what the people of egypt wanted?

*Egypt protests: America's secret backing for rebel leaders behind uprising*
The American government secretly backed leading figures behind the Egyptian uprising who have been planning regime change for the past three years, The Daily Telegraph has learned. 
Egypt protests: America's secret backing for rebel leaders behind uprising - Telegraph


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 17, 2011)

idb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



Interesting, Code Pink is largely a Jewish organization.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 17, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Yup, those damned Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeews.


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## georgephillip (Feb 17, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> LibocalypseNow said:
> 
> 
> > The U.S. owns Egypt's Military and Egypt's Military owns Egypt. Do the Math. This new "Democracy" in Egypt isn't going to hurt the U.S. It's not Checkers,it's Chess. Wake up people. SHEESH!
> ...


*And before the Shah?*

"Mohammad Mosaddegh or Mosaddeq (Persian: &#1605;&#1581;&#1605;&#1583; &#1605;&#1589;&#1583;&#1617;&#1602;, IPA: [mohæm&#712;mæd(-e) mosæd&#712;de&#611;]  ( listen)*), also Mossadegh, Mossadeq, Mosadeck, or Musaddiq (19 May 1882 &#8211; 5 March 1967), was *the democratically elected*[1][2][3] Prime Minister of Iran from 1951 to 1953 when *he was overthrown in a coup d'état backed by the United States Central Intelligence Agency.*"


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## mudwhistle (Feb 17, 2011)

goyim said:


> 1. egypt along with the rest of the middle east has the right as sovereign nations to govern themselves without any interference from the united states regardless of 'how dangerous' it is to our country.
> 
> 2. why should we care about the deaths of israelis?  they are NOT U.S. citizens, have nothing to do with our country AND bring all their turmoil upon themselves.
> 
> it's time the US adopts a non-interventionist and prepares to rebuild instead of worrying about israel and meddling in other countries' affairs.



That's where you're wrong. If any sovereign nation becomes a threat to other countries they become a target, and rightfully so. 

Oh, and the security of millions of Jews doesn't concern you but I bet you'll cry a river if a few demonstrators get offed. Anti-Semitic asshole.

The reason we have to be concerned is because that pencil-neck in the White House has put our energy resources off-limits, so we have to depend on the Middle East for a large portion of our oil and natural gas. We can't even refine our own gas because the left won't allow us to build any new refineries. 

The Middle East is a concern because of the policies of the White House, and Israel is the only ally we have in the region that to date doesn't hate our guts. The way Obama has been acting the last couple of years I wouldn't blame them if they did. Looks like these idiots are about to rebuke Israel officially at the UN. Great timing folks. US agrees to rebuke Israel in UN Security Council.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 17, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > LibocalypseNow said:
> ...



We've been playing games over Iran with Russia for a long time. Right now Russia is unfortunate enough to be their benefactor. The only purpose Iran has for Russia is to be a pain in the ass to the United States. The WMD debacle was a shell game the Russians and Iranians pulled on us, with the help of some of our Democrats, Turkey, Syria, and former members of the Iraqi Republican Guard.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 17, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


OK show your source.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 17, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Yes, didn't you know every evil that happens in the world is by the Jews.

Just the other day they started protests in Bahrain, Yemen, Egypt, Tunisia, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, every Middle Eastern country. 

Jews and Communists work well together. They're the cause of all of these riots.


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 17, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



They don't specify the religious affiliation of their members, however, one of the founders, Medea Benjamin, is Jewish as are a large number of their members.

How many of these people are Jews?


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## mudwhistle (Feb 17, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Who cares. How many of them are Irish, or Hungarian?

Just being Jewish doesn't mean you have to fall in lock step with every other Jew.


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 17, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



That is my point. They don't say because it is irrelevant. And you are right. There is a wide variety of beliefs and opinions among Jews.


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## georgephillip (Feb 17, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...


It isn't Russia that's occupying Iraq and Afghanistan.

The two countries that just happen to border Iran.

Are you confused about which country is still the greatest purveyor of *for-profit* violence on this planet?

It's not Iran or Russia.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 17, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Because folks like Mudwhistle think they can control other countries despite the peoples' wishes.  Doesn't work that way as we found it Iran and as we are finding out in Iraq and Afghanistan.  As the British found out about their North American colonists.
> ...



Mere reactionary talking points that ignore reality.  Hundreds of thousands in Cairo and throughout Egypt decided Egypt's future.  I imagine they had some assistance.  So did the American revolutionaries.


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## edthecynic (Feb 17, 2011)

idb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...


That's pure CON$ervative Brotherhood BULLSHIT as has already been shown earlier in this thread!!!!


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## mudwhistle (Feb 17, 2011)

georgephillip said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



Russia's largest domestic product is oil and weapons. The US is reality programs. China is lead paint. They put it in everything.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 17, 2011)

Let's compare a Russian occupation with an American occupation. 

Who specialized in bayoneting women and children?

On the other hand, who kicks the crap out of them,rebuilds them, pays war-reparations, then apologizes for getting rid of their tyrants?


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## saveliberty (Feb 17, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Mere reactionary talking points that ignore reality.  Hundreds of thousands in Cairo and throughout Egypt decided Egypt's future.  I imagine they had some assistance.  So did the American revolutionaries.



McDonalds sweat tea for a buck!


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 17, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



And obama has Muslim heritage, had a step father who was Muslim, has been taught Islam and has lived in a Islamic country. Do you really want to go with association?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 17, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



Talk about ignoring the source, just like a lame brain buffon. Always gives his opinion never anything else worth anything.


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## Synthaholic (Feb 17, 2011)

idb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...


Heh!


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 17, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



bigreb describes himself above.  He is nothing but a vile neo-con, and we see where that led from 2001- 2007.  Hit type of filth almost broke the country; and they are not going to get another chance.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 17, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Absolutely unimportant.  But bigrebnc has southern heritage yet disgraces it every single day here.  BHO is a far better American than bigrebnc ever can hope to be.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 17, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...


Here it comes. All of the massive spending was because of Boooooooooosh

Wonder when that worn out excuse will become the embarrassment it deserves?


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 17, 2011)

The Bushies are partly at fault, yes, and so are the Republicans and Democrats that did not force them down.  So are  you for defending their crimes.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 17, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



To say code pink is run by the jews



> Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
> 
> Interesting, Code Pink is largely a Jewish organization.



Yet it doesn't matter


> And obama has Muslim heritage, had a step father who was Muslim, has been taught Islam and has lived in a Islamic country. Do you really want to go with association



But really jake no one care for your liberal statist opinion.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 17, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> The Bushies are partly at fault, yes, and so are the Republicans and Democrats that did not force them down.  So are  you for defending their crimes.



You call it a crime.

Bush oversaw a moving-violation but Obama oversaw Grand-theft Auto. 

Besides, Congress spent the money and Obama voted for every spending bill while in Congress.


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## idb (Feb 17, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



It reminds me a bit of your assertion that Codepink were responsible for the Egyptian situation because they were there...PFT's proof that they are a Jewish organisaton is just as compelling as your proof that they are close allies with the Muslim Brotherhood.


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## idb (Feb 17, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



The fact they are Jewish *women* makes it even more sinister.
Suddenly the reasons behind the whole current Middle East situation become clear...and it's just the beginning people...


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## Ropey (Feb 17, 2011)

idb said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Please explain yourself.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 17, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > The Bushies are partly at fault, yes, and so are the Republicans and Democrats that did not force them down.  So are  you for defending their crimes.
> ...



Typical neo-con lie.  You guys don't get another chance; why do you think Bush and the others can't go overseas now?


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## idb (Feb 17, 2011)

Ropey said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



Well...I think the conspiracy is clear, the Jews, having manipulated the global economy to bring the world to its knees, have managed to recruit half of the world's population (women...grrr) to continue their march towards world domination.
Is it a coincidence that the Egyptian leader was a man?
What about all of the other Middle Eastern leaders currently shaking in their boots...are any of them women?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 17, 2011)

idb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...




No asshat thats your assertion (Codepink were responsible for the Egyptian situation because they were there), I said they were there protesting with the muslim brotherhood.


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## idb (Feb 17, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



I know you did.
You claimed that it proved that the revolution was led by agencies outside of Egypt.
So, obviously, you believe that Codepink were a driving force behind the fall of Mubarak.

I think you should come clean bigrednec - just what is your problem with Jewish women?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 17, 2011)

idb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...





> I think you should come clean bigrednec - just what is your problem with Jewish women?


My grand son is half jewish so I have no problem with jewish women or the Jewish people. But I have a very big problem with asshats like you.



> You claimed that it proved that the revolution was led by agencies outside of Egypt.
> So, obviously, you believe that Codepink were a driving force behind the fall of Mubarak.


No thats your claim asshat. I said code pink was in egypt protesting with the muslim brotherhood. Got anymore lies?


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 17, 2011)

Code Pink just happened to be in Egypt on their way to Gaza. They have been to Gaza several times and are welcomed by the government and people alike.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 17, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> Code Pink just happened to be in Egypt on their way to Gaza. They have been to Gaza several times and are welcomed by the government and people alike.



No not according their web page. That was a planed trip.


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## saveliberty (Feb 17, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Code Pink just happened to be in Egypt on their way to Gaza. They have been to Gaza several times and are welcomed by the government and people alike.
> ...





That wiggle room looks kind of tight.


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## idb (Feb 17, 2011)

saveliberty said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



It was good luck for the Gazan gummint though...they could have been their next victims.
I bet they're still hyperventilating in terror.


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## edthecynic (Feb 17, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > *Code Pink just happened to be in Egypt on their way to Gaza.* They have been to Gaza several times and are welcomed by the government and people alike.
> ...


A planned trip to GAZA!!!!!!!!

As I had posted earlier in this thread:

http://www.alternet.org/world/149814


> CodePink's Response to the Controversy in Cairo | World | AlterNet
> 
> *Why Was CODEPINK in Cairo in the First Place?*
> 
> *CODEPINK  was scheduled to lead a delegation* through the Egyptian border * to Gaza*  from January 30  February 6, following the second anniversary  of the  Israeli assault on Gaza. As the Egyptian uprising began, the  Rafah  crossing into Gaza was closed, and the delegation has been caught  up in  the breath-taking people's movement in Egypt.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 17, 2011)

saveliberty said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Update from CODEPINK Peace Delegation in Cairo
Update from CODEPINK Peace Delegation in Cairo | PINKtank


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 17, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



According to their calander there wasn't any planned trip to Gaza.
CODEPINK*:*CODEPINK ACTION CALENDAR


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## saveliberty (Feb 17, 2011)

The topic was democracy in Egypt is bad for the US.  I am wondering what form of government would be more satisfactory to the US?  Why would we want less for another country?


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## edthecynic (Feb 17, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


You're such a pathological liar!!!

https://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/424/t/8834/shop/custom.jsp?donate_page_KEY=6790

*January                      30 - February 6, 2011*
            As we approach the two year anniversary of the Israeli  invasion                      of Gaza,  join CODEPINK on a delegation to  examine how                      the people of Gaza have fared in the  past two years and how                      the restrictions on trade  and travel continue to impact their                      lives. We will  meet with UN representatives, NGOs, students,                       government officials, human rights monitors and businesspeople.

            We will enter Gaza via the Egyptian crossing at Rafah,  departing                      from Cairo the morning of January 30 and  returning to Cairo                      the evening of February 6.  Payment of *$1,000 *includes transportation                       from Cairo to Gaza and within Gaza, program, translation,                       2 meals/day, Gaza accommodations, donations to local  organizations. *Payment does not include flight to and from Cairo, Cairo hotel or visa fees.*

*Sign up below to join us!* You can email ali.glenesk@gmail.com                      for more info or if you have any questions.
_*NOTE: *__*$200 non-refundable processing fee applies to all cancellations. *_


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 17, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



How am I a liar? I posted code pink wbe site calendar Here I will post it again
CODEPINK*:*CODEPINK ACTION CALENDAR

Show me from the own web cite  about a planed trip to gaza?


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## edthecynic (Feb 17, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


Because it says it's a state and local calender!!! Gaza is not a state in this country, as if you didn't know!!

And the link I gave IS the Code Pink website!!! Again as if you didn't know. Don't you CON$ ever get tired of playing dumb????



> CODEPINK ACTION CALENDAR
> Find upcoming CODEPINK actions on our calendar below.  *Actions are listed by state alphabetically.*  You can also find local CODEPINK actions listed on local group webpages or by emailing a local coordinator.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 17, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...





> Because it says it's a state and local calender!!! Gaza is not a state in this country, as if you didn't know!!



State and country or didn't the country Isreal give you a hint?


> And the link I gave IS the Code Pink website!!! Again as if you didn't know. Don't you CON$ ever get tired of playing dumb????



Are you saying mine link isn't  code pinks web site?

CODEPINK*:*CODEPINK ACTION CALENDAR


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## mudwhistle (Feb 17, 2011)

saveliberty said:


> The topic was democracy in Egypt is bad for the US.  I am wondering what form of government would be more satisfactory to the US?  Why would we want less for another country?



We are a Republic, not a Democracy.....for the hundredth fucken time.


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## edthecynic (Feb 17, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> According to their calander* there wasn't any planned trip to Gaza.*
> CODEPINK*:*CODEPINK ACTION CALENDAR





bigrebnc1775 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


The perpetual dumb act!!!!!

I'm saying that your claim that "there wasn't any planned trip to Gaza" is the lie. I'm saying that giving a link to an unrelated calender does not validate your lie that "there wasn't any planned trip to Gaza."


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 17, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> > The topic was democracy in Egypt is bad for the US.  I am wondering what form of government would be more satisfactory to the US?  Why would we want less for another country?
> ...



For the 100th fucken time, bone head neo-cons are a broken, despairing group of losers.  Move on, neo-cons, the great majority of America know now that you are anti-American


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## edthecynic (Feb 17, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> According to their calander* there wasn't any planned trip to Gaza.*
> CODEPINK*:*CODEPINK ACTION CALENDAR


Here's another Code Pink announcement of the visit to Gaza with a link to the sign up page.

CODEPINK*:*December 28, 2010

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] One                year ago at this time we were in Egypt for the Gaza Freedom March,                a massive effort that brought nearly 1,400 people from over 40 countries                together to march for an end to the siege of Gaza. People like you                did solidarity                actions               in over 150 cities. [/FONT]                    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]



[/FONT]*                We want to share with you what happened on that march in a new video                just released in time for the anniversary. Please take a moment                to [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZBv_hLr9Po.%20"]watch                it now[/ame].[/FONT]
                    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Members                of the Gaza Freedom March returned home determined to continue their                activism. Holocaust survivor Hedy Epstein, 86 years old, has done                just that, from speaking up during the UC Berkeley                campus divestment hearings, to joining the Gaza                flotilla that was shot at by the Israelis, to participating                in a flashmob                dance to boycott Motorola.[/FONT]
                    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So,                too, CODEPINK has kept up the pressure this year, demonstrating                in Congress and at the White House, protesting the pro-occupation                lobby AIPAC, boycotting                Ahava, helping to raise funds for the next                flotilla and* taking two more delegations to Gaza. You                can join                us on our next delegation on January 30 to February 6                where, at the invitation of the United Nations, we will be focusing                on the plight of children.*[/FONT]


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 17, 2011)

edthecynic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > According to their calander* there wasn't any planned trip to Gaza.*
> ...


I posted the link for their calendar if their clendar is wrong it doesn't mean I lied asshole. Does it make you a liar because you said it was a state web site when in fact it has both?
Why is code pink protesting with the muslim brotherhood?


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## idb (Feb 17, 2011)

idb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...





mudwhistle said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> > The topic was democracy in Egypt is bad for the US.  I am wondering what form of government would be more satisfactory to the US?  Why would we want less for another country?
> ...



Can't a Republic be a Democracy?
Isn't Democracy simply the method by which the government is selected?
Feel free to correct me with a link, I haven't looked it up.

Granted, you've said before that a Democracy is equivalent to mob rule, but that would be a pure democracy with no moderating rules.


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## Synthaholic (Feb 17, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > saveliberty said:
> ...



Not only that, they are incompetent fuck-ups.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 17, 2011)

idb said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



You confuse bigrebnc with facts.  He can't deal with facts that "refudiate" is stupid ass world view.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 17, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Jakes a confused little asswipe. Luckly for him he did not serve as one of my fire team members he would have had the crap beat out of him if he had been one.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 17, 2011)

Such language, you redneck from Goose Neck, Lost County, North Carolina.  You never were on any one's fire team, and if by some chance you came into my platoon, you would have been sent home in a week.  He simply did not tolerate weak sisters like you, biggie.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 17, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Such language, you redneck from Goose Neck, Lost County, North Carolina.  You never were on any one's fire team, and if by some chance you came into my platoon, you would have been sent home in a week.  He simply did not tolerate weak sisters like you, biggie.



jake doesn't like to hear the truth. He would have been sent home in a body bag.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 18, 2011)

Why do you make your empty threats, bigreb?  Everyone here of decent intelligence and American civic virtue have made you a laughing stock.  You are just goofy.  Here you are crying in basic combat training before you were sent home.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 18, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Why do you make your empty threats, bigreb?  Everyone here of decent intelligence and American civic virtue have made you a laughing stock.  You are just goofy.  Here you are crying in basic combat training before you were sent home.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUc62jD-G0o



empty threats? Nope I don't think so. I doubt you were in the military. Daveman varified what I said was true about my combat training.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 18, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Such language, you redneck from Goose Neck, Lost County, North Carolina.  You never were on any one's fire team, and if by some chance you came into my platoon, you would have been sent home in a week.  He simply did not tolerate weak sisters like you, biggie.



Were you Army or Marines?


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 18, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Why do you make your empty threats, bigreb?  Everyone here of decent intelligence and American civic virtue have made you a laughing stock.  You are just goofy.  Here you are crying in basic combat training before you were sent home.
> ...



daveman has no more honesty than you do, so I am not concerned about his verification.

And, yeah, your threats are empty as a balloon that pops under its own inner pressure.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 18, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Such language, you redneck from Goose Neck, Lost County, North Carolina.  You never were on any one's fire team, and if by some chance you came into my platoon, you would have been sent home in a week.  He simply did not tolerate weak sisters like you, biggie.
> ...



Do you know what constitutes each an element, a section, a fire team, a squad, a platoon, and a company?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 18, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



Dave has more varifable honesty than you starkey.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 18, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Your opinion, sure.  Losers like you and daveman and others stick together, until they betray one another.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 18, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...






> Your opinion, sure.


Opinion is an opinion 
varifable honesty can be varified.



> Losers like you and daveman and others stick together



yep just like liberals stick together. When will a repulican come to defend you?


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 18, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



You are a statist who wants to project American power into the Middle East, and you are not a republican.  Remember that those who support neo-con positions are failed liberals, like Daddy Kristol.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 18, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



I want as little government control as humanly possible, now hows that statist thing go again?


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## Synthaholic (Feb 18, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


Yeah, in this country.  Not in other countries.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 18, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



I guess you are a big supporter of an Iranian style government.


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## California Girl (Feb 18, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > saveliberty said:
> ...



  Fuck off, Joke. Seriously. You don't get to decide what the 'majority of America' thinks.


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## Synthaholic (Feb 18, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


Didn't you support Mubarek over the demonstrators?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 18, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



Doesn't answer the question asked of you. Do you support an Iranian style government?


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 18, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



No, you don't/  You just want to control government to do what you want it to other Americans.  You want America to project its power in the Middle East against the popular revolutions.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 18, 2011)

California Girl said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



You certainly don't for several reasons, silly person.  You live in Great Britain for starters, you are a reactionary out of touch with American reality, and you have a hard time being told you are generally wrong, as you generally are.  Who cares what you think?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 18, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



Wat did I just say starkey? I want as little government control as humanly possable. Can you comprehend that?
Do you support an Iranain style government?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 18, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



I haven't read anywhere on any thread where California Girl was speaking for anyone, only jake starkey does that.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 18, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



You support an Iranian style government here run by reactionary Christian leaders, and you lied about wanting as little government as humanly possible.  Nobody believes you, biggie.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 18, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > California Girl said:
> ...



Sure, she has and does and will, and you try it as well.  You fail at it.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 18, 2011)

jakestarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > jakestarkey said:
> ...



a post of a well known liar^^^^^^^^^^


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 18, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



I realize this will be a waste of my time, but show one post to stupport your claim against her. Show where she has spoken for all America?


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## Synthaholic (Feb 18, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


I just knew you would punk out.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 18, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



Doesn't answer the question asked of you. Do you support an Iranian style government?


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 18, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


No.  But you supported Mubarak.


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 18, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...


All of the above are elements. 
You're talking rudimentary military unit organization.

I was wondering which Branch you were in. What kind of military unit you were assigned to?


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 18, 2011)

bigreb supported the Dictator, yes.  Are you surprised?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 18, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



If you support the muslim brotherood then thats what you will get.


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## Synthaholic (Feb 18, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> bigreb supported the Dictator, yes.  Are you surprised?


Not at all.  He wants total government control in other countries.


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## Synthaholic (Feb 18, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


It's not an either/or, dope.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 18, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



History has shown it has.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 18, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> bigreb supported the Dictator, yes.  Are you surprised?



jake supports a statist controlled government. Are you surprised?


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 18, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



They are units of force consisting from one to several scores of soldiers configured for missions.

Infantry.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 18, 2011)

Don't pretend that you are not a statist, bigtreb.  Man is organized socially, culturally, politically, religious, and economically.  The challenge is to get government to recognize, accept, and enhance man's natural rights, which basically means consent of the governed.  You do not want Muslims to assert their natural rights.  In other words, natural rights are not just for Christians.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 18, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Don't pretend that you are not a statist, bigtreb.  Man is organized socially, culturally, politically, religious, and economically.  The challenge is to get government to recognize, accept, and enhance man's natural rights, which basically means consent of the governed.  You do not want Muslims to assert their natural rights.  In other words, natural rights are not just for Christians.



Progressive code words^^^^^^^^^


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 18, 2011)

Statist code words by bigrebnc.  He is following the Howard Zenn/Saul Alinksy playbook for failed liberals.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 18, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Statist code words by bigrebnc.  He is following the Howard Zenn/Saul Alinksy playbook for failed liberals.



Sorry you failed jake.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 18, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Statist code words by bigrebnc.  He is following the Howard Zenn/Saul Alinksy playbook for failed liberals.
> ...



You are the one who is trying (but failing) to demonize and polarize.  You are the one who is (loud and clear) saying that you oppose the natural rights given by God to Egyyptians to rule by the consent of the government.  Yes, you are a totalitarian statist.


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 18, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



Not shit. 

So I take it you were Army.

Are you an officer, NCO, Warrant?

What's your MOS?

Mine was 18E when I retired.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 18, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



You see jake this is the reason why I say you do not know what you are talking about.
Totalitarianism - Definition


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 18, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



 You are the one who is calling Hitler a socialist, using a propaganda film you did not even know the context or the year it was made, you and the one that believes that North Korea is a democracy because it it labeled a people's democratic nation, and you are the one who is the statist totalitarian that wishes to deny natural rights given by God to the Egyptians, the Libyans, the Bahranians, etc.

You are bigreb mubarak.  You sick minded ill-souled sucking hypocrite.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 18, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...





> You are the one who is calling Hitler a socialist



Was Hitler in control of the National Socialist German Workers' Party?



> using a propaganda film you did not even know the context or the year it was made, you and the one that believes that North Korea is a democracy because it it labeled a people's democratic nation,



Your wrong I proved my point. Hitler was a dictator the germany were not part of a free market system Hitler dictated that all material was to go to the wa effort. You lost.



> You are bigreb mubarak.  You sick minded ill-souled sucking hypocrite



you are a big fan and supporter of the muslim brotherhood, they kill people. hypocrite yes you are.


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 18, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Was Hitler in control of the National Socialist German Workers' Party?



Is the Democratic People's Republic of Korea democratic?  Or a republic?

Shall I go on, Rebecca?  There are plenty more examples.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 19, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...





> you are a big fan and supporter of the muslim brotherhood, they kill people.



Could you provide some links?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 19, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



I will when starkey produces some links that support his claim. So why don't youy ask him?

While forced to limit its violent activity, the Muslim Brotherhood continues to have a large following throughout the Muslim world, where many of its supporters are politically active. The group has influenced many terrorist leaders &#8211; including Osama Bin Laden and Ayman al Zawahiri &#8211; and many of its members have engaged in terrorist activities. 

Focus of Operations
Headquartered in Egypt; satellite groups throughout the Muslim world 

Major Attacks 
The Muslim Brotherhood no longer openly conducts terrorist operations; it is primarily a political organization that supports terrorism and terrorist causes. Many of its members, however, have engaged in terrorist activities and the group has spawned numerous terrorist groups, such as Hamas and Egyptian Islamic Jihad. 
2002: Suspected in suicide bombing in Grozny. 
1979: Suspected in attacking Syrian military academy in Aleppo. 50 Syrian artillery cadets killed 
http://www.adl.org/terrorism/symbols/muslim_brotherhood_1.asp


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 19, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Was Hitler in control of the National Socialist German Workers' Party?
> ...



Thats why we are a Constitutional Republic. We are governed by Constitutional law. Shall I go on little cyindie?


----------



## editec (Feb 19, 2011)

LibocalypseNow said:


> The guy really did stick his neck out for us for 30yrs over there. And in return we gave him just 18 Days to completely sell him out. Can the U.S. Government ever be trusted again?


 
And he became a BILLIONAIRE in the process.

Sounds like nice work if you can get it.


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 19, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



And now they're helping write Egypt's new constitution. Perfect.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 19, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



yep butsome idiot will come along and defend them


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 19, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Thus speaketh bigreb mubarak.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 19, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



Defender of the muslim brotherhood jake starkey


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 19, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Yes, the Muslim Brotherhood does have strength in the Middle East and is a force to be reckoned with.  Very fortunately for us, the American equivalent of the MB's hate and violence as found in bigrebnc and his friends is very, very small.  We punt them around metaphorically like footballs.  bigreb and his friends' roles are very simple: entertainment, grins, and chuckles.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 19, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



We allow you guys, Mudwhistle, to participate in our constitutional process.  It is called republican democracy.  Your philosophy reeks yet you wish to deny natural rights to others.  Such hypocrisy on your part.


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## Synthaholic (Feb 19, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



What the fuck does that have to do with your implication that the Nazis were Socialist because they have Socialist in their title?

You just got bitch-slapped, Rebecca.

This is why I have generally stopped responding to your constant stream of FAIL - you are an ignoramus who can't argue your way out of a paper bag.  Why should I waste my time?


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## Synthaholic (Feb 19, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


Yeah - they are going to overthrow the Egyptian military.













You're a dope.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 19, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



you allow jake to make wild accusations but post to me. you're such a dumbass. little Cyndi


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## Synthaholic (Feb 19, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


You're the scared little girl who is wetting her pants over the scary boogy man, not Jake.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 19, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



To be afaird of the unseen you must believe in the unknown. You are projecting a lot Cyndi


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 19, 2011)

biggie mubarak really is a little girl afraid of the unknown, worried about monsters under her bed.


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 19, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> biggie mubarak really is a little girl afraid of the unknown, worried about monsters under her bed.


"Rebecca of Sunni Brook Farm"


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 19, 2011)

Jeremy  if I was you I would make a few changes in my political views if I had liberals agreing with me.



Synthaholic said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > biggie mubarak really is a little girl afraid of the unknown, worried about monsters under her bed.
> ...





JakeStarkey said:


> biggie mubarak really is a little girl afraid of the unknown, worried about monsters under her bed.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 19, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Jeremy  if I was you I would make a few changes in my political views if I had liberals agreing with me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



All responsible Republicans and conservatives disagree with you, as well as the left and center.

America's majority despises the far right nonsense you knocknards espouse.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 19, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremy  if I was you I would make a few changes in my political views if I had liberals agreing with me.
> ...



Jeremy  if I was you I would make a few changes in my political views if I had liberals agreeing with me.


----------



## Synthaholic (Feb 19, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...


Hey, numbnut:  his name is Jake, not Jeremy.

You FAIL at even the simplest things.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 19, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



My sources tell me it's what I said it was.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 19, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



  You are Goofy and your sources are Loony.  But, hey, call me Jeremy if you want, but if you go to Fargo, the real Jeremy will knock you out.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 19, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



No you're much further south than Fargo.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 19, 2011)

Thank you.  Now if you had sources . . .   but if you go Fargo, the real Jeremy will clean your clock.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 19, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Thank you.  Now if you had sources . . .   but if you go Fargo, the real Jeremy will clean your clock.



I'm really not concerned with your fargo troll. Are you still playing cowboys and indians down south?


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 19, 2011)

Whatever, biggie.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 19, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Whatever, biggie.



Let's just say I know a few things


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## Synthaholic (Feb 19, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Whatever, biggie.
> ...


I think it's pretty obvious that you ONLY know a few things.


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 19, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremy  if I was you I would make a few changes in my political views if I had liberals agreing with me.
> ...



Jake, you're one of the worst bull shit artist on this site.

You claim you speak for Republicans and Conservatives but you spend all of your time talking like a Progressive. 

You haven't a clue what they think. 

I'm still waiting on you to tell me what unit you were assigned to because you seem to think you can lecture me on military tactics. I learned a little bit about it in my time at 5th Special Forces Group and at the JSOTF under UNSOM.

 Now try telling me what that means without Googling it.


----------



## Bfgrn (Feb 19, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Let's face it. They hate us. No election in any Middle Eastern country is going to put in place a government that is friendly to our country or our primary ally, Israel.
> 
> It also doesn't help that Obama has been actively running this revolution from the White House. They don't want to give the impression this is an American operation but it's getting harder and harder to hide the fact. Guess it just depends on what people are willing to believe.
> 
> ...



Why isn't this post where it belongs...Conspiracy Theories?


And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only six percent of the world's population - that we cannot impose our will upon the other ninety-four percent of mankind - that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity - and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem. 
President John F. Kennedy


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 19, 2011)

Synthaholic said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



little cyndi shouldn't you be playing with your dolls?


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 19, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Whatever, biggie.
> ...



Yes, you do: your name, how to make your X on a document, and to use the men's room.  For the rest, whatever:


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 19, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Jake, you're one of the worst bull shit artist on this site.  You claim you speak for Republicans and Conservatives but you spend all of your time talking like a Progressive.   You haven't a clue what they think.   I'm still waiting on you to tell me what unit you were assigned to because you seem to think you can lecture me on military tactics. I learned a little bit about it in my time at 5th Special Forces Group and at the JSOTF under UNSOM.   Now try telling me what that means without Googling it.



Off topic.

But for your education: 

(1) progressivism is a process of reform with conservative, centrist, and liberal wings.  Learn to use the term correctly.

(2) I honor your service, I answered your question correctly about structuring of forces for mission accomplishment, and I am glad you were a green beanie.  That's some tough training.

(3) Anything that I have not shared previously about my own service (me, ranks, units, combat) is none of your business, for your intent is deceitful.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 20, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



OK jermey what ever you say.


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 20, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Jake, you're one of the worst bull shit artist on this site.  You claim you speak for Republicans and Conservatives but you spend all of your time talking like a Progressive.   You haven't a clue what they think.   I'm still waiting on you to tell me what unit you were assigned to because you seem to think you can lecture me on military tactics. I learned a little bit about it in my time at 5th Special Forces Group and at the JSOTF under UNSOM.   Now try telling me what that means without Googling it.
> ...



So you're afraid to tell me. That speaks volumes. 

My intent was to find out where you got your training from and what kind of real experience you have, but you dodged the question like the typical worm you are. I was trying to ascertain where this hatred for this country comes from. Usually military members have a better sense of patriotism then your typical person, and they don't side with Democrats on every issue because they are constantly put in harms way, and they know the predictable dangers of mixing politics and warfare. The results historically are disastrous. For reference see Task Force Ranger, The Bay of Pigs, Operation Eagle Claw and the fuckups at Desert One.

I just get tired of you acting like you're all that when you aren't. I'm sure plenty of other people are too.

So what it amounts to is you're simply an internet troll that hasn't done shit in his life besides try to talk tough on a message board from the safety of his bedroom.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 20, 2011)

Mudwhistle, really, what you think carries no weight with me.  Your intent is deceitful, while I know exactly who I am and what I am.  Those who count know and respect and honor it as well.  You are entitled to your opinion, so go for it, because I will not bandy words with one like you.


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 20, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Mudwhistle, really, what you think carries no weight with me.  Your intent is deceitful, while I know exactly who I am and what I am.  Those who count know and respect and honor it as well.  You are entitled to your opinion, so go for it, because I will not bandy words with one like you.



What you are is little coward. 

You don't want to "Bandy" words with me because you know you're full of shit.


----------



## jckryan (Feb 20, 2011)

Ladies, ladies . . . 'nough with the pissing contest. 

Let's go from Egypt and say we go back to 'nuke' the Somali's. I definitely want to re-up and kick some warlord *ss. Now THERE is a country that will never see democracy or any sort of civil government.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 20, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Mudwhistle, really, what you think carries no weight with me.  Your intent is deceitful, while I know exactly who I am and what I am.  Those who count know and respect and honor it as well.  You are entitled to your opinion, so go for it, because I will not bandy words with one like you.
> ...



Projecting your own inadequacy, Mud: pathetic..  US Army, airborne infantry and light arctic infantry (qualified for both berets, ,Fort Benning, Fort Carson, Fort Wainwright, Letterman Medical Center, Fort Huachuca,,44th Training Co Fort Benning, 2nd ID at the flagpole, and Fort Hood.  Best traning for me was the Princess Pat's Light Infantry (CA) and jump familiarization with open top balloon in Scotland and the Korea-American Ranger Course in the mountains above Ouijongbu.  Vetted to th CID to assist investigate a Korean woman's murder strangulation.  We arrested some 30 hour later the guy who did.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 20, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



You may want to check that spelling Ouijongbu mountians should be spelled Uijongbu mountains. So you were in the 172nd I have a couple of associates  who were stationed there.


> Vetted to th CID to assist investigate a Korean woman's murder strangulation.  We arrested some 30 hour later the guy who did



Sounds like a script from NCIS
Light Sleeper January 24, 2006 60 (3x14) 
When the Korean wives of two Marines are murdered, Gibbs and his team are sent in to investigate. Since signs of domestic abuse were evident at the crime scene, they suspect that the killer is one of the women's husbands. The sudden disappearance of Yoon Dawson, a friend of the two victims, makes her husband a suspect in the case. However, the team soon discovers that Yoon is not all she seems, and that her and her two dead friends might have been in America for reasons other than having Marine husbands. 
http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/List_of_NCIS_episodes#Season_3:_2005-2006


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## mudwhistle (Feb 21, 2011)

jckryan said:


> Ladies, ladies . . . 'nough with the pissing contest.
> 
> Let's go from Egypt and say we go back to 'nuke' the Somali's. I definitely want to re-up and kick some warlord *ss. Now THERE is a country that will never see democracy or any sort of civil government.



We should have done it when we were there in 93'.

We could have taken Mogadishu in less then a week, but then we had this President that didn't want to appear too aggressive. He had no problem sending us in with no armor against 6000 skinnies with RPGs and AK-47. He must have thought that American soldiers were bullet-proof. I could see that all we were doing was kicking a hornet's nest with our actions.

I was there all of the way up to the final battle. It was a serious goatfuck.

Thank God I left a few days before.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 21, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



Your point.  That others lie like you do?  There may be, but very few, and I am not one of yours.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 21, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...





> Your point.  That others lie like you do?



What lie Jermey? Where is the lie? 
You spelled the Uijongbu mountains range wrong You spelled it this way Ouijongbu mountians 
Uijongbu: Bukhansan National Park has it all ... and then some - Travel - Stripes

Are you saying I don't have associates who were in the 172nd? Are you saying their was no NCIS episode simular to the story you mentioned?

Jermey everytime you reply to me you claim I lie. Shouldn't you start supporting your claims that I lie?


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 21, 2011)

What are you talking about, bigreb.  Do you know how the 172nd was configured in the day?  Did you go to the joint forces school in Ouijongbu (you failed to spell it correctly, by the by)?  This is the very best you can do?  You can't spell period, you are worrying about mine?  I don't watch NCIS.  So?  Are the above your points?  What an epic fail by you.

You imbecile.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 21, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> What are you talking about, bigreb.  Do you know how the 172nd was configured in the day?  Did you go to the American Korean ranger school?  This is the very best you can do?  You can't spell period, you are worrying about mine?  I don't watch NCIS.  So?  Are the above your points?  What an epic fail by you.
> 
> You imbecile.



Whats wrong Jermey? Let's just say I have a couple of associates who where stationed in Alaska.



> You can't spell period, you are worrying about mine?



But places I have been I spell correctly everytime, as do most other people.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 21, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > What are you talking about, bigreb.  Do you know how the 172nd was configured in the day?  Did you go to the American Korean ranger school?  This is the very best you can do?  You can't spell period, you are worrying about mine?  I don't watch NCIS.  So?  Are the above your points?  What an epic fail by you.
> ...



You goof.  You crack me up.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 21, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



The way you can tell someone's lying is when they deflect a responces for no reason.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 21, 2011)

You are goofy.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 21, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> You are goofy.



Whats wrong Jermey? Why are deflecting what I said?


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 21, 2011)

still goofy


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 21, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> still goofy



No jermey you're the one that has been acting goofy and strage ever since you last few post in this thread. You seems a little nervous like you're hiding something.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 21, 2011)

You are a broken record, so it is time to toss it on the ash heap.  You are on ignore, bigrebnc.  Let's remember who you are: "&#8220;Starkey you are a lying *XXXXXXX* . You are a worthless piece of shit. Which after all that is what a  *XXXXXXX*  is a lazy good for nothing trashy piece of shit, no matter what their race maybe  *XXXXXXX*  are scum and that would be you starkey.  White black red Brown yellow. Skin color matters not with what a *XXXXXXX*   is but their character does, and yours is that of a  *XXXXXXX* .&#8221;  [and]   &#8220;This coming from someone who shows his affection for things he likes to suck on written as a moniker.  Have you tucked many dicks today?"
That would be how braney the banking queen would sound if she said it.&#8221;

He and his kind remain sexist, homophobic, race haters, mean spirited, all that is bad here.  In other words, un-American.  I avoid doing stupid things by watching people like bigrebnc1775 or Znder do a dopey thing, and then I don't do that thing.  I advise all who read here to avoid the bigreb's of the world.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 21, 2011)

I can't believe this comment vvvvvvvv


bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



lead up to this comment vvvvvvvvv



JakeStarkey said:


> You are a broken record, so it is time to toss it on the ash heap.  You are on ignore, bigrebnc.  Let's remember who you are: "&#8220;Starkey you are a lying  *XXXXXXX* . You are a worthless piece of shit. Which after all that is what a  *XXXXXXX*  is a lazy good for nothing trashy piece of shit, no matter what their race maybe   *XXXXXXX* are scum and that would be you starkey.  White black red Brown yellow. Skin color matters not with what a  *XXXXXXX*  is but their character does, and yours is that of a *XXXXXXX*  .&#8221;  [and]   &#8220;This coming from someone who shows his affection for things he likes to suck on written as a moniker.  Have you tucked many dicks today?"
> That would be how braney the banking queen would sound if she said it.&#8221;
> 
> He and his kind remain sexist, homophobic, race haters, mean spirited, all that is bad here.  In other words, un-American.  I avoid doing stupid things by watching people like bigrebnc1775 or Znder do a dopey thing, and then I don't do that thing.  I advise all who read here to avoid the bigreb's of the world.



Whats wrong jermey you're acting like a long tailed cat in a rocking chair factory.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 23, 2011)

Somebody needs to explain to me why there are so many dictators in the Middle East

Somebody also needs to explain to me why the White House was so vocal when  one the few friendly governments started to fall, but silent in the cases of Libya and Iran.  It makes me wonder about their true goals. Do they really support Democracy or do they support major upheaval in the oil producing states?

Is this all just part of the left's war against fossil-fuels?


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## idb (Feb 23, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Somebody needs to explain to me why there are so many dictators in the Middle East
> 
> Somebody also needs to explain to me why the White House was so vocal when  one the few friendly governments started to fall, but silent in the cases of Libya and Iran.  It makes me wonder about their true goals. Do they really support Democracy or do they support major upheaval in the oil producing states?
> 
> Is this all just part of the left's war against fossil-fuels?



Well, here's one reason.
It is referring to Al Qaeda's #2, Zawahiri, and the possible response to his call for regime change in Egypt if the USA jumped in with size 12 boots, and if Mubarak had cut up rough with the protestors.
It would seem that the US may have played this just right.
It shows how delicate diplomacy can be in these circumstances.


> When he recorded the just-released message, it was possible that events could still play into his hands. During the first days of February the stakes in Egypt's Tahrir Square for al Qaeda and the United States could hardly have been higher.
> 
> As the protests gathered strength, it appeared possible that the Mubarak regime might move to crush the demonstrators and that Arab street protesters would view the United States as complicit.
> 
> Such a crackdown, and the frustration of raised expectations across the region, could have created a newly receptive climate for al Qaeda's key propaganda message -- that the United States deliberately props up Middle Eastern dictatorships to prevent the emergence of an Islamic world power -- and no doubt Zawahiri and other al Qaeda leaders would have exploited it to try to win recruits. But the ground shifted, Mubarak fell, and the United States strengthened its support for the demonstrators, hollowing out the al Qaeda narrative.


ref Analysis: Why Arab Spring could be al Qaeda's fall - CNN.com


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## mudwhistle (Feb 23, 2011)

idb said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Somebody needs to explain to me why there are so many dictators in the Middle East
> ...


So our choices are support friendly dictators or allow the oil fields to fall into the hands of the radicals and allow them to institute Sharia law all over the Middle East? I'll choose the stinking dictators


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## mudwhistle (Feb 23, 2011)

What does the WH have to say about Libya?

They say it sucks but how bout same sex marriage, huh?

Now there's an important issue.


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## idb (Feb 23, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



Gosh!
I never got that interpretation from that piece.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 23, 2011)

idb said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Maybe you should re-read it then. 

Fact is none of our choices are good but it's clear which ones are the wrong choices.


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## idb (Feb 23, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



Nope, still don't see it.

The West making choices for the Middle East has been the cause of much of this shit.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 23, 2011)

idb said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Then you're a fucken idiot.

They aren't going to make choices that are in our best interests, so we have no choice but to choose for them. 

We have no other choice. 


What it all boils down to is Islam will not allow us to live on this Earth with them, so we have to make rotten choices. Too bad you don't like it.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 23, 2011)

Sounds, Whistle, that you are not going to allow them their natural God-given rights to self determination.


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## idb (Feb 23, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



Well, now, you've hurt my feelings - kudos to you sir...kudos!

I'm a bit curious though what you think the USA's choices for action in Egypt might be?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 23, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Sounds, Whistle, that you are not going to allow them their natural God-given rights to self determination.



I thought I ran you off jermey.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 23, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Sounds, Whistle, that you are not going to allow them their natural God-given rights to self determination.



Not if if means they become a threat to us and a threat to peace, which they will become. 

You play fair with these people and you'll end up with them banging  down your door and putting you and your family to the sword. 

You know, the reason I know you've never been in the Middle East and been attacked by these fuckers is because you wanna be fair to them.

I say fuck that. They have to be kept on a leash.


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 23, 2011)

idb said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Right now there are none. The cat's outta the bag. It's too fucken late.

Get used to higher gas prices and war in the Middle East fucker.


----------



## idb (Feb 23, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



I reckon the best thing to do would be to start ingratiating ourselves with the people.
Offer to help in any way that we can until they get their shit together...become known as good bastards.
But do it now!


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## mudwhistle (Feb 24, 2011)

idb said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Dude. Get a clue.

We've been doing that for 2 years now and look what it got us.

They not only still hate us but now they ain't afraid of us anymore.


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## editec (Feb 24, 2011)

> Somebody needs to explain to me why there are so many dictators in the Middle East


 
Because representational governments are a realtively new development and authoritarian societies (those with strong authoritarians religions underpinning them) can be extrmely difficult to dislodge?

I mean, seriously...somebody_ really_ had to tell you that?

I think you probably already knew that.

When Europe was shuffling off it's monarchies, it too had to surpress its authoritarian religiously based society...it had to fight off the CHURCH OF ROME and then it had to fight off the Monarchs (who claimed their authority via the CHURCH) too.

Only instead of having to get rid of authoritarian Islam, we had to fight off* authoritarian Christianity.*

Seriously...you guy don't _already know this?_

You don't know the history of the Reformation and the huge number of times Christians (like the Albegensians and the Hussites) tried and failed to reform their society by changing the relationship between the Chirch of Rome and their own Monarchs?

You guys _really _need to get a handle on history.

You cannot understand the world you live in today if you don't have a clue how we got here, today.

I don't care how much money you make, how clever you are about thing technical, understanding the world you live in requires that you have at least a passing understanding of the world as it was.


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 24, 2011)

editec said:


> > Somebody needs to explain to me why there are so many dictators in the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You guys????

Fuck you asshole. I can think for myself and contrary to popular belief there are some people  like myself that have been to the Middle East. 

I asked the question for a reason. It was a rhetorical question, and I just wanted to see if anyone that supports this massive upheaval truly understands why we support dictators in the Middle East.

Democracy in some societies does not automatically lead to equality, prosparity, and most of all freedom.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 24, 2011)

Clearly you have a very innocent and overly simplistic view of the region.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 24, 2011)

editec said:


> > Somebody needs to explain to me why there are so many dictators in the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I cannot figure out the menality of someone who equates taking away your right to kill the unborn or bugger your buddy in the keister with suicide bombers and Sharia Law that makes it legal to slowly saw your head off for being a Jew, an Apostate, or an infidel. Where does this insanity come from?

I know. Our educational system. 

I should know. I studied at one of the most liberal universities in the country.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 24, 2011)

I cannot understand being an American who hates the principles of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution as some clearly reveal in this thread.  Yes, the Muslims have every much right to God-given natural rights as Americans.  Do deny that is to hate God.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 24, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> I cannot understand being an American who hates the principles of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution as some clearly reveal in this thread.  Yes, the Muslims have every much right to God-given natural rights as Americans.  Do deny that is to hate God.







Yes that's true, look at what the Nazi chose as a government. Should we have stopped them or should we have let them run their own country? Look at what the Japanese did the Chinese. Look at what the Arabia&#8217;s did to Israel when they first became a nation.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 24, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> I cannot understand being an American who hates the principles of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution as some clearly reveal in this thread.  Yes, the Muslims have every much right to God-given natural rights as Americans.  Do deny that is to hate God.



So Egyptians are Americans now

You are one silly nut-job


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 24, 2011)

Mud, the Egyptians have the same god-given rights as Americans.  Go read the Declaration.  You truly have no business telling others how to vote when you are as morally corrupt as you have demonstrated in this thread.


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## idb (Feb 24, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > I cannot understand being an American who hates the principles of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution as some clearly reveal in this thread.  Yes, the Muslims have every much right to God-given natural rights as Americans.  Do deny that is to hate God.
> ...



Nobody stopped them running their own countries until they invaded someone else's.
Except for Israel of course, who have been allowed to annex neighbouring territory with impunity.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 24, 2011)

idb, the Israelis knocked the crap out of the Arabs four times running, even when the Arabs sneak attacked.  The fact is that armies of Arabs of any nation are laughing stock, period.  They cry now because they got the stuffing beat out of them before.  Get over it!

I note also in your reply above that bigreb continues to reveal his hatred of the principles of the Declaration and the Constitution also.  The reasons the Germans ran wild was that the Allies  French let them violate the Versailles Peace Treaty in 1934 with a increase of three times the allowed size of its army and the remilitarization of the Rhineland in 1936.  There was no need to overthrow democratic elections in Germany, only the need to resist Hitler internationally.

I will note that bigreb, in all of his posturing on the Board, has a deep fondness for policies of Hitler, particularly on issues of race.


----------



## idb (Feb 24, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> idb, the Israelis knocked the crap out of the Arabs four times running, even when the Arabs sneak attacked.  The fact is that armies of Arabs of any nation are laughing stock, period.  They cry now because they got the stuffing beat out of them before.  Get over it!
> 
> I note also in your reply above that bigreb continues to reveal his hatred of the principles of the Declaration and the Constitution also.  The reasons the Germans ran wild was that the Allies  French let them violate the Versailles Peace Treaty in 1934 with a increase of three times the allowed size of its army and the remilitarization of the Rhineland in 1936.  There was no need to overthrow democratic elections in Germany, only the need to resist Hitler internationally.
> 
> I will note that bigreb, in all of his posturing on the Board, has a deep fondness for policies of Hitler, particularly on issues of race.



My reply to bigrednec was against his assertion that the West stepped in and sorted out delinquent Japanese and German governments.
I simply pointed out that nothing was actually done until they went outside their own boundaries.

I think we could argue all day about the rights and wrongs of Israeli/Arab modern history.
While I don't condone any attacks by either side, Jewish extremists have been murdering and blowing things up since before the creation of the modern state.

Just a thought - could Israel become one of the next Theocracies in the Middle East if the Jewish extremists get their way?


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 24, 2011)

Yup, they did, as did Arab extremists.  The Jews won, the Arabs lost.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 24, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Mud, the Egyptians have the same god-given rights as Americans.  Go read the Declaration.  You truly have no business telling others how to vote when you are as morally corrupt as you have demonstrated in this thread.



You numbskull.

Now you want to project American laws, rights, and privileges unto Egyptians. 

Let me get this right. 





> Egyptians have the same god-given rights as Americans. Go read the Declaration - *Jake Starkey*



What are you, some kind of fucken colonialist? You wanna tell Egypt what to do now?

Sounds kind of amoral to me. Imposing your will upon the people of other countries.

If I didn't know better I would think you're serious.


----------



## idb (Feb 24, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Mud, the Egyptians have the same god-given rights as Americans.  Go read the Declaration.  You truly have no business telling others how to vote when you are as morally corrupt as you have demonstrated in this thread.
> ...



Look up 'right' in the dictionary.
Then look up 'imposition'.

If I didn't know better I would think you are deliberately mis-reading Jake's post.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 24, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Mud, the Egyptians have the same god-given rights as Americans.  Go read the Declaration.  You truly have no business telling others how to vote when you are as morally corrupt as you have demonstrated in this thread.
> ...



I don't want to tell Egyptians what to do, but you do, and you are caught lying through your teeth again as you project your idiocy on me.

Natural God-given rights are for all humans, not just Americans.

Where did you learn such nonsense?


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 24, 2011)

Nah, idb, the idiot would never do that.


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 24, 2011)

idb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



al Qaeda flew planes into our cities. A Saudi was captured yesterday attempting to assassinate one of our former Presidents. Muslims blew up the Stark, bombed our embassies, took our diplomats hostage, gang-raped a female journalist during the celebrations in Egypt, Somali pirates murdered 4 missionaries this week. Iraqi Muslims are murdering Christians by the hundreds. 

And now the Muslim Brotherhood threatens to end the Camp David Peace Accord and wage war on one of our few allies in the region.

You make me sick. I'm tired of taking lumps and giving nothing back in return except apologies. 

You go ahead and side with them. Maybe if you do they might spare your life. 

Then again, maybe they won't.


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 24, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



Natural God-given rights as per the bill of rights???

I've got news for you, God never gave anyone rights. We had to fight for ours'. 

Like I said, we have no right to give anyone in any country rights without their say so. It's up to them to decide if they want them. 

Once again you don't understand a simple principle of government. 

Before it was that this country is Democracy, not a Republic.

Now you want to impose the same rights we have in the Middle East against their will.

*Maybe they don't like our freedoms. I've had some tell me our freedoms lead to weakness and eventually our downfall. I was told this point blank by a Kuwaiti Intelligence officer. *

You can't help it. You're so immature yet you think you know every fucken thing.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 24, 2011)

Thank you Mudwhistle for telling us that God has nothing to do with our natural rights.  That's fine for you to have an opinion.  However, your opinion would be spurned by Franklin, Jefferson, Washington, Adams, and so forth.  Whatever you espouse, they are not American virtues.  Move to Egypt then if you don't like it here.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 24, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Thank you Mudwhistle for telling us that God has nothing to do with our natural rights.  That's fine for you to have an opinion.  However, your opinion would be spurned by Franklin, Jefferson, Washington, Adams, and so forth.  Whatever you espouse, they are not American virtues.  Move to Egypt then if you don't like it here.



Yes, whatever you say. Jesus, you sound like you wanna cry. So melodramatic. 

I like it fine here. You want to spread our freedoms around the world then get the fuck out yourself and see just how welcome your idea are. They'll laugh at how naive you are.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 24, 2011)

No one is concerned with the sense of  your take, Mud.  Most everyone is startled how naive you are.  If you don't believe in the principles of God-given rights at least say so outright, so the next that you feel the urge to wave the flag to which you are not entitled to honor, you will slink away with respect.


----------



## idb (Feb 24, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



What makes me sick is people like you screaming in righteous anger about how you or your country have been wronged, no-one else can possibly understand if they aren't American and it's your consequent right to condemn all Muslims or anyone that you might interpret as being a sympathiser.
You are either trying to project a tragic national event as a legitimate basis for your natural bigotry or - to give you some possible credit - it might be preventing you from forming an objective opinion.

So...which is it - are you grieving or are you a bigot?


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 25, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> No one is concerned with the sense of  your take, Mud.  Most everyone is startled how naive you are.  If you don't believe in the principles of God-given rights at least say so outright, so the next that you feel the urge to wave the flag to which you are not entitled to honor, you will slink away with respect.



Waaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!








Listen, cry-baby, you're never gonna win anything when you resort to these constant juvenile tactics, that of ignoring the answer and just plugging anything in that you choose, then accusing me of it. It's intellectually dishonest. 

This is how every discussion with you turns out. I make a valid point and you start crying. 

You get mad, put words in someone's mouth, then declare yourself the winner.

Grow up.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 25, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> idb, the Israelis knocked the crap out of the Arabs four times running, even when the Arabs sneak attacked.  The fact is that armies of Arabs of any nation are laughing stock, period.  They cry now because they got the stuffing beat out of them before.  Get over it!
> 
> I note also in your reply above that bigreb continues to reveal his hatred of the principles of the Declaration and the Constitution also.  The reasons the Germans ran wild was that the Allies  French let them violate the Versailles Peace Treaty in 1934 with a increase of three times the allowed size of its army and the remilitarization of the Rhineland in 1936.  There was no need to overthrow democratic elections in Germany, only the need to resist Hitler internationally.
> 
> I will note that bigreb, in all of his posturing on the Board, has a deep fondness for policies of Hitler, particularly on issues of race.



You're a racist, that hate women jermey denial is not your best weapon.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 25, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> No one is concerned with the sense of  your take, Mud.  Most everyone is startled how naive you are.  If you don't believe in the principles of God-given rights at least say so outright, so the next that you feel the urge to wave the flag to which you are not entitled to honor, you will slink away with respect.



Until you start producing some sources to support your opinion no one cares what you think Jermey.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Feb 25, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > No one is concerned with the sense of  your take, Mud.  Most everyone is startled how naive you are.  If you don't believe in the principles of God-given rights at least say so outright, so the next that you feel the urge to wave the flag to which you are not entitled to honor, you will slink away with respect.
> ...



Thats his only method of giving his opinion as facts.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 1, 2011)

idb said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > idb said:
> ...



Nether. I notice your only defense is throwing out the race-card.  The natural defense of an apologist. 

Also you're prone to hyperbole. 
I've got news for you, bigotry is why those Muslims flew those planes into our buildings. The purpose was to remove the infidel armies from their sacred soil, not right a wrong.


----------



## mudwhistle (Mar 1, 2011)

idb said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



Nope. Any member of any country would call you naïve if you tried to suggest they take on our American values. They would chuckle at the thought. Many of them believe our freedoms are our greatest weakness, and that we've been showing everyone our weaknesses. It's what Obama is good at.


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## JakeStarkey (Mar 1, 2011)

Mudwhistle is unhappy so he project his crybabying on me.  So does bigreb for that matter.  

You sorry doofi are going to learn that Americans are no more and no less special as human beings than anyone else in this world.  What makes our country is special is when we live up to the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution.

Neither of you do that here, and I challenge you to change that right now.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Mar 1, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Mudwhistle is unhappy so he project his crybabying on me.  So does bigreb for that matter.
> 
> You sorry doofi are going to learn that Americans are no more and no less special as human beings than anyone else in this world.  What makes our country is special is when we live up to the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution.
> 
> Neither of you do that here, and I challenge you to change that right now.



Jake you are as worthless as tits on a bull. I challenge you to prove that you are what you say you are.


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## JakeStarkey (Mar 1, 2011)

My postings have  mainstream, generally right of center, and sustainable.

Yours generally have been far right wack reactionary unfounded and unproven and unfactually substantiated.  Remember your nonsense threads about "Hitler is a socialist" and "the 2nd Amendment is about giving Americans military weapons" crap?

You are stool, tool, and fool, and should go back to school.

I mean it: you have displayed no mental, moral, emotional, and patriotic worth of this Board.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Mar 1, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> My postings have  mainstream, generally right of center, and sustainable.
> 
> Yours generally have been far right wack reactionary unfounded and unproven and unfactually substantiated.  Remember your nonsense threads about "Hitler is a socialist" and "the 2nd Amendment is about giving Americans military weapons" crap?
> 
> ...



You keep giving opinions you lost move along.


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## JakeStarkey (Mar 1, 2011)

Never, ever will you post your opinions as fact without being confronted by me and every other patriotic American here, bigreb.  We see right through you slime balls.  We know exactly what your kind would do if you ever took over.  Guess what?  Never gonna happen, son, never.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Mar 1, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Never, ever will you post your opinions as fact without being confronted by me and every other patriotic American here, bigreb.  We see right through you slime balls.  We know exactly what your kind would do if you ever took over.  Guess what?  Never gonna happen, son, never.



To jake if he doesn't agree with it no matter how factually sound it is, no matter how factually it is supported it's only an opinion in his opinion.

Oh and just to add we know for a fact how your kind will do America we have had 4 years of it.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 1, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Never, ever will you post your opinions as fact without being confronted by me and every other patriotic American here, bigreb.  We see right through you slime balls.  We know exactly what your kind would do if you ever took over.  Guess what?  Never gonna happen, son, never.



Yes. You think being patriotic is hoping that American will change cuz you dislike what she was. 

Delusional little prick, aren't you.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 1, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Never, ever will you post your opinions as fact without being confronted by me and every other patriotic American here, bigreb.  We see right through you slime balls.  We know exactly what your kind would do if you ever took over.  Guess what?  Never gonna happen, son, never.
> ...



Well, he's been in the infantry. He won't say where, but he was in the infantry. He's an expert in basic military whatever.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Mar 1, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



He answered it but I caught on to his lie


bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...





http://www.usmessageboard.com/3344867-post510.html


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## mudwhistle (Mar 1, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
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So he was Airborne Infantry.

Wow, I'm impressed.

I was just a Green Beret on a Special Forces A-team.

My list of schools is pretty long. I noticed he had no combat duty so I doubt he got a CIB. 

I guess he thinks helping CID investigate a murder is impressive. 

Nah.

Doesn't quite stack up to Desert Storm service or Somalia 93', both combat deployments. 

And the Ranger course is held at Ft Benning, not Korea.


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## hipeter924 (Mar 1, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...


He is preparing his CV for when he auditions for Michael Moore's next film.


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## JakeStarkey (Mar 1, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



I thanked you for your service for what it was worth.  You did not there was joint ROK-American Ranger school in Korea?  Slack on your part, trooper.  Tell me, young slick, on anything I did not answer correctly.  Don't worry, I will correct you where you answer wrongly.  Shape up.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Mar 1, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Jake what you said about your training does not match up with ranger history
*RANGER TRAINING BRIGADE UNITED STATES ARMY INFANTRY SCHOOL FORT BENNING, GEORGIA
JULY 2006*

Following Vietnam, recognizing the need for a highly trained and highly mobile reaction force, the Army Chief of Staff,
General Abrams directed the activation of the first battalion-sized Ranger units since World War II, the 1st and 2nd Battalions
(Ranger), 75th Infantry. The 1st Battalion was trained at Fort Benning, Georgia and was activated February 8, 1974 at Fort
Stewart, Georgia with the 2nd Battalion being activated on October 3, 1974. The 1st Battalion is now located at Hunter Army
Airfield, Georgia and the 2nd Battalion at Fort Lewis, Washington.
The farsightedness of General Abrams&#8217; decision, as well as the combat effectiveness of the Ranger battalions, was proven
during the United States&#8217; invasion of the island of Grenada in October 1983 to protect American citizens there, and to restore
democracy. As expected, Rangers led the way! During this operation, code named &#8220;Urgent Fury,&#8221; the Ranger battalions
conducted a daring, low level airborne assault (from 500 feet) to seize the airfield at Point Salines, and then continued
operations for several days to eliminate pockets of resistance, and rescue American medical students.
As a result of the demonstrated effectiveness of the Ranger battalions, the Department of the Army announced in 1984 that it
was increasing the strength of Ranger units to its highest level in 40 years. To do this, it activated another Ranger battalion
as well as a Ranger Regimental Headquarters. These new units, the 3rd Battalion (Ranger), 75th Infantry, and Headquarters
Company (Ranger), 75th Infantry, have increased the Ranger strength of the Army to over 2,000 soldiers actually assigned to
Ranger units. On February 3, 1986, the 75th Infantry was renamed the 75th Ranger Regiment.
On December 20, 1989, the 75th Ranger Regiment was once again called upon to demonstrate its effectiveness in combat.
For the first time since its reorganization in 1984, the Regimental Headquarters and all three Ranger battalions were deployed
on Operation &#8220;Just Cause&#8221; in Panama. During this operation, the 75th Ranger Regiment spearheaded the assault into Panama
by conducting airborne assaults onto Torrijos/Tocumen Airport and Rio Hato Airfield to facilitate the restoration of democracy in
Panama, and protect the lives of American citizens. Between December 20, 1989 and January 7, 1990, numerous follow-on
missions were performed in Panama by the Regiment.
Early in 1991, elements of the 75th Ranger Regiment deployed to Saudi Arabia in support of Operation Desert Storm.
In August 1993, elements of the 75th Ranger Regiment deployed to Somalia in support of Operation Restore Hope, and
returned November 1993.
In 1994, elements of the 75th Ranger Regiment deployed to Haiti in support of Operation Uphold Democracy.
In 2000 &#8211; 2001, elements of the 75th Ranger Regiment deployed to Kosovo in support of Operation Joint Guardian.
Since September 11, 2001, the 75th Ranger Regiment has led the way in the Global War on Terrorism. In October 2001,
elements of the 75th Ranger Regiment deployed to Afghanistan in support of Operation Enduring Freedom. In March 2003,
elements of the Regiment deployed in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom.
The performance of these Rangers significantly contributed to the overall success of these operations and upheld the
Ranger tradition of the past. As in the past, the Regiment stands ready to execute its mission to conduct special operations in
support of the United States&#8217; policies and objectives.
http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/ranger.pdf


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## bigrebnc1775 (Mar 1, 2011)

Jake you also mention Princess Pat's Light Infantry training? Canada?
Princess Patricias Canadian Light Infantry


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## idb (Mar 2, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> idb said:
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> 
> > mudwhistle said:
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> Nether. I notice your only defense is throwing out the race-card. The natural defense of an apologist.
> 
> Also you're prone to hyperbole.
> I've got news for you, bigotry is why those Muslims flew those planes into our buildings. The purpose was to remove the infidel armies from their sacred soil, not right a wrong.



I apologise, I was bit grumpy when I posted those.
I get pissed off when a poster flies off into righteous anger.
I'm not sure what you meant when you said "Now you want to project American laws, rights, and privileges unto Egyptians. "
I don't think laws or privileges were mentioned anywhere but...rights are rights...Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness and all that.


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## JakeStarkey (Mar 2, 2011)

Mud is upset that God likes Muslims, I think.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Mar 3, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Mud is upset that God likes Muslims, I think.



You are a liar and I'm calling your bluff. You have never been in the military.


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## JakeStarkey (Mar 3, 2011)

Not my problem, troop.  What you think about me does not matter, ever.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Mar 3, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Not my problem, troop.  What you think about me does not matter, ever.


No the facts are your problem.
Jake you also mention Princess Pat's Light Infantry training? You were in Canada? What year?


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## JakeStarkey (Mar 3, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Not my problem, troop.  What you think about me does not matter, ever.
> ...



They were superb troops.  They did a jump with us.  They were all very stiff lipped, and the Americans began cheering and jumping up down and screaming.  On the ground the best comments was, "You wankers are wild!"

What year is never your business, bigreb.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Mar 3, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



Jake you're a liar you never were there.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 3, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



STFU Dirtbag

The only real Ranger course is held at Ft Benning GA. 

What you went through was one of those abreviated courses they put on for the purposes of international relations. You can't even wear the qualification signifier on your uniform.


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## JakeStarkey (Mar 3, 2011)

A start for you Mouthwhistle cause you learned something.  A couple of beanies on attachment to the flagpole at Camp Casey (for those who did not serve, that means the 2ID hqs) did not make it through course.  Course four or five did make it.  I did.  The training was tougher than the airborne or air assault courses, in my opinion


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