# I have been Called to the Principal's Office



## Samson

Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:

_Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_

I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."

My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade

I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.


WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???

It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!

GODDAMN? WTF??

Am I being completely unreasonable???


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## xotoxi

Samson said:


> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???



Why don't they just send the graded assignments home with your spawn?

Isn't that how they do it?  Or do teachers these days horde all the assignments?


----------



## ConHog

How odd. At our school all high school homework and tests are now pc based and a parent may check on them at anytime. An interested parent could even come into the class grab a laptop log into the network and watch while their kid took the test. 

Although when I was in school we did have some teachers that didn't even grade homework and such until the end of the semester, they made you do it then lug it around in a binder all semester, if you lost that binder you were screwed. I always thought those teachers were lazy.


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't they just send the graded assignments home with your spawn?
> 
> Isn't that how they do it?  Or do teachers these days horde all the assignments?
Click to expand...


Well, the slave isn't the most reliable conveyance, but after a fuckin' month I expect him to have the proceeedure of receiving a paper, transporting it home, letting me know he has it, and if necessary returning it to school.

Some complain that I'm interfering with their horde, arguing that they like to wait until "The end of the Unit" to send all the graded work home. But what I'm seeing is lost of grade entries that do not require ANY objective evaluation: "Participation" grades, and very few quizzes, tests, and things that require a student to place their pencil to a piece of paper!!


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't they just send the graded assignments home with your spawn?
> 
> Isn't that how they do it?  Or do teachers these days horde all the assignments?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, the slave isn't the most reliable conveyance, but after a fuckin' month I expect him to have the proceeedure of receiving a paper, transporting it home, letting me know he has it, and if necessary returning it to school.
> 
> Some complain that I'm interfering with their horde, arguing that they like to wait until "The end of the Unit" to send all the graded work home. But what I'm seeing is lost of grade entries that do not require ANY objective evaluation: "Participation" grades, and very few quizzes, tests, and things that require a student to place their pencil to a piece of paper!!
Click to expand...


What grade is the child in? How long has school been in session? Were there problems last year?


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## Samson

ConHog said:


> How odd. At our school all high school homework and tests are now pc based and a parent may check on them at anytime. An interested parent could even come into the class grab a laptop log into the network and watch while their kid took the test.
> 
> Although when I was in school we did have some teachers that didn't even grade homework and such until the end of the semester, they made you do it then lug it around in a binder all semester, if you lost that binder you were screwed. I always thought those teachers were lazy.




Yes, they ARE LAZY.

A teacher is supposed to .......TEACH GODDAMNIT, that means, you DO SOMETHING to ensure that the Students are doing more than maintaining a pulse during your presence.


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## AllieBaba

If I don't go through my kids' backpack every day I miss all sorts of things...and their homework is sent home. But I walk into their classroom at least once a week, ostensibly to give Wallybaba his eyeglasses or pay for lunches or something. But that contact is never amiss, I'm able to sort of keep on top of what is going on.

I love it that my kids are in a charter school. This year the focus is on the watershed! How cool is that! The whole school is going to go canoeing at some point....


----------



## AllieBaba

We're in first and second grade...homework every night consists of spelling words (and a test every day), reading, and workbook homework. Parents have to sign the workbook and the homework sheet, and the teacher checks it every day.


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## goldcatt

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't they just send the graded assignments home with your spawn?
> 
> Isn't that how they do it?  Or do teachers these days horde all the assignments?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, the slave isn't the most reliable conveyance, but after a fuckin' month I expect him to have the proceeedure of receiving a paper, transporting it home, letting me know he has it, and if necessary returning it to school.
> 
> Some complain that I'm interfering with their horde, arguing that they like to wait until "The end of the Unit" to send all the graded work home. But what I'm seeing is lost of grade entries that do not require ANY objective evaluation: "Participation" grades, and very few quizzes, tests, and things that require a student to place their pencil to a piece of paper!!
Click to expand...


Good luck. They bypassed the principal altogether and I got called to the District Office last year after discovering by sheer accident that my pups had been yanked from their educational environment and placed in enrichment classes twice a week so I demanded to see their IEP's - as required by law - to find out exactly what "enriching" activities they were participating in. I won. Eventually.


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## AllieBaba

Samson said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> How odd. At our school all high school homework and tests are now pc based and a parent may check on them at anytime. An interested parent could even come into the class grab a laptop log into the network and watch while their kid took the test.
> 
> Although when I was in school we did have some teachers that didn't even grade homework and such until the end of the semester, they made you do it then lug it around in a binder all semester, if you lost that binder you were screwed. I always thought those teachers were lazy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they ARE LAZY.
> 
> A teacher is supposed to .......TEACH GODDAMNIT, that means, you DO SOMETHING to ensure that the Students are doing more than maintaining a pulse during your presence.
Click to expand...



Charter school...charter school...charter school...

US Charter Schools Home


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't they just send the graded assignments home with your spawn?
> 
> Isn't that how they do it?  Or do teachers these days horde all the assignments?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the slave isn't the most reliable conveyance, but after a fuckin' month I expect him to have the proceeedure of receiving a paper, transporting it home, letting me know he has it, and if necessary returning it to school.
> 
> Some complain that I'm interfering with their horde, arguing that they like to wait until "The end of the Unit" to send all the graded work home. But what I'm seeing is lost of grade entries that do not require ANY objective evaluation: "Participation" grades, and very few quizzes, tests, and things that require a student to place their pencil to a piece of paper!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What grade is the child in? How long has school been in session? Were there problems last year?
Click to expand...


10th

about a month: I know, not much time, but GET THE LEAD OUT!

Problems EVERY year....wait until 9 weeks are up, then WFT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING??? has been SOP. Not so this year.

English 10, for example....I have not seen a graded paper for the past TWO WEEKS?

Biology? Nothing but one paper with three questions graded.


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the slave isn't the most reliable conveyance, but after a fuckin' month I expect him to have the proceeedure of receiving a paper, transporting it home, letting me know he has it, and if necessary returning it to school.
> 
> Some complain that I'm interfering with their horde, arguing that they like to wait until "The end of the Unit" to send all the graded work home. But what I'm seeing is lost of grade entries that do not require ANY objective evaluation: "Participation" grades, and very few quizzes, tests, and things that require a student to place their pencil to a piece of paper!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What grade is the child in? How long has school been in session? Were there problems last year?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 10th
> 
> about a month: I know, not much time, but GET THE LEAD OUT!
> 
> Problems EVERY year....wait until 9 weeks are up, then WFT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING??? has been SOP. Not so this year.
> 
> English 10, for example....I have not seen a graded paper for the past TWO WEEKS?
> 
> Biology? Nothing but one paper with three questions graded.
Click to expand...


10th grade? Wow! I'd go meet the principal and bring the kid too. Needs to be clarity between expectations all around. 

The teachers should be handing out syllabi by that age-for at least 2-4 weeks. You and son should know what is going on. 

Does the teacher use rubrics? If so, do you agree with the measurements?


----------



## ConHog

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the slave isn't the most reliable conveyance, but after a fuckin' month I expect him to have the proceeedure of receiving a paper, transporting it home, letting me know he has it, and if necessary returning it to school.
> 
> Some complain that I'm interfering with their horde, arguing that they like to wait until "The end of the Unit" to send all the graded work home. But what I'm seeing is lost of grade entries that do not require ANY objective evaluation: "Participation" grades, and very few quizzes, tests, and things that require a student to place their pencil to a piece of paper!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What grade is the child in? How long has school been in session? Were there problems last year?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 10th
> 
> about a month: I know, not much time, but GET THE LEAD OUT!
> 
> Problems EVERY year....wait until 9 weeks are up, then WFT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING??? has been SOP. Not so this year.
> 
> English 10, for example....I have not seen a graded paper for the past TWO WEEKS?
> 
> Biology? Nothing but one paper with three questions graded.
Click to expand...


do yall not have edline? true it doesnt contain the actual paperwork but it does show grades, and we require our teachers at ALL levels to update daily, even if that update merely says no homework.


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## Luissa

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the slave isn't the most reliable conveyance, but after a fuckin' month I expect him to have the proceeedure of receiving a paper, transporting it home, letting me know he has it, and if necessary returning it to school.
> 
> Some complain that I'm interfering with their horde, arguing that they like to wait until "The end of the Unit" to send all the graded work home. But what I'm seeing is lost of grade entries that do not require ANY objective evaluation: "Participation" grades, and very few quizzes, tests, and things that require a student to place their pencil to a piece of paper!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What grade is the child in? How long has school been in session? Were there problems last year?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 10th
> 
> about a month: I know, not much time, but GET THE LEAD OUT!
> 
> Problems EVERY year....wait until 9 weeks are up, then WFT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING??? has been SOP. Not so this year.
> 
> English 10, for example....I have not seen a graded paper for the past TWO WEEKS?
> 
> Biology? Nothing but one paper with three questions graded.
Click to expand...


I don't remember ever having that much homework in biology, it was mostly in class activities. 
And maybe you should ask your children every night what they are learning.


----------



## Samson

AllieBaba said:


> If I don't go through my kids' backpack every day I miss all sorts of things...and their homework is sent home. But I walk into their classroom at least once a week, ostensibly to give Wallybaba his eyeglasses or pay for lunches or something. But that contact is never amiss, I'm able to sort of keep on top of what is going on.
> 
> I love it that my kids are in a charter school. This year the focus is on the watershed! How cool is that! The whole school is going to go canoeing at some point....





AllieBaba said:


> We're in first and second grade...homework every night consists of spelling words (and a test every day), reading, and workbook homework. Parents have to sign the workbook and the homework sheet, and the teacher checks it every day.





AllieBaba said:


> Charter school...charter school...charter school...
> 
> US Charter Schools Home



Charter High School is often, as in this case, not an option: however my 14 and 7 yo are in Charter school, and I agree, you can pull strings much more easily.

Also, elementary grades receive feedback every day.....eventually, like when they're 11 or 12 graders, you begin to see less and less paper (I'm not sure this is a good thing).


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## Samson

Luissa said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What grade is the child in? How long has school been in session? Were there problems last year?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 10th
> 
> about a month: I know, not much time, but GET THE LEAD OUT!
> 
> Problems EVERY year....wait until 9 weeks are up, then WFT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING??? has been SOP. Not so this year.
> 
> English 10, for example....I have not seen a graded paper for the past TWO WEEKS?
> 
> Biology? Nothing but one paper with three questions graded.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't remember ever having that much homework in biology, it was mostly in class activities.
> And maybe you should ask your children every night what they are learning.
Click to expand...


I recall at LEAST having vocabulary words in Biology...fucking having to memorize names of plant parts an' shit.

Have YOU asked a freakin 16 yo what they did in school?

"Huh. uh......grrkle...urp, ten abber dak."

WTF????


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I don't go through my kids' backpack every day I miss all sorts of things...and their homework is sent home. But I walk into their classroom at least once a week, ostensibly to give Wallybaba his eyeglasses or pay for lunches or something. But that contact is never amiss, I'm able to sort of keep on top of what is going on.
> 
> I love it that my kids are in a charter school. This year the focus is on the watershed! How cool is that! The whole school is going to go canoeing at some point....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're in first and second grade...homework every night consists of spelling words (and a test every day), reading, and workbook homework. Parents have to sign the workbook and the homework sheet, and the teacher checks it every day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> Charter school...charter school...charter school...
> 
> US Charter Schools Home
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Charter High School is often, as in this case, not an option: however my 14 and 7 yo are in Charter school, and I agree, you can pull strings much more easily.
> 
> Also, elementary grades receive feedback every day.....eventually, like when they're 11 or 12 graders, you begin to see less and less paper (I'm not sure this is a good thing).
Click to expand...


Tends to be as the grades get higher there are fewer, but more in depth lessons. Essays, research papers, and labs are not usually going to be done in a day. 

However, you and kid should know what is going on and assignments should have clear expectations on material to be covered and how they will be assessed.


----------



## AllieBaba

I think I'd request that my kids do a written summary of what they did in school each day, including what homework they were assigned and what classwork they did - and provide you with the grades.

Unless of course they bring home the graded work themselves. I think it sounds like your kids are playing you a little. If they don't bring home the graded work, make them do the summary...they'll start bringing it home.

The teachers aren't going to do a special paper each day for you. Unfortunate, but true. 

Aren't adolescents fun???!

But don't feel bad. When my boys were that age, we went through a nice long period where every time my oldest would do something out of line he had to write a hundred sentences for me (I dictated the sentence) which explained why that wasn't a good thing to do, and how he would never do it again.

It worked remarkably well.


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## AllieBaba

When I was in hs biology, we had homework every night. Biology has TONS of homework! And labs. Which often have homework as well...


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## Samson

Annie said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I don't go through my kids' backpack every day I miss all sorts of things...and their homework is sent home. But I walk into their classroom at least once a week, ostensibly to give Wallybaba his eyeglasses or pay for lunches or something. But that contact is never amiss, I'm able to sort of keep on top of what is going on.
> 
> I love it that my kids are in a charter school. This year the focus is on the watershed! How cool is that! The whole school is going to go canoeing at some point....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> Charter school...charter school...charter school...
> 
> US Charter Schools Home
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Charter High School is often, as in this case, not an option: however my 14 and 7 yo are in Charter school, and I agree, you can pull strings much more easily.
> 
> Also, elementary grades receive feedback every day.....eventually, like when they're 11 or 12 graders, you begin to see less and less paper (I'm not sure this is a good thing).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tends to be as the grades get higher there are fewer, but more in depth lessons. Essays, research papers, and labs are not usually going to be done in a day.
> 
> However, you and kid should know what is going on and assignments should have clear expectations on material to be covered and how they will be assessed.
Click to expand...


I agree with the more in-depth lessons having a longer timeline.

But does that preclude lessons with a shorter timeline?

It seems to me quite natural to expect there would be something NEW learned every DAY, if not every WEEK, and that some evaluative tool be applied to that learning.

The fact is, teachers don't want to construct the test, grade the test, or deal with parents that question the grade. The less frequently they grade, the easier their lives are.


----------



## Luissa

Samson said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 10th
> 
> about a month: I know, not much time, but GET THE LEAD OUT!
> 
> Problems EVERY year....wait until 9 weeks are up, then WFT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING??? has been SOP. Not so this year.
> 
> English 10, for example....I have not seen a graded paper for the past TWO WEEKS?
> 
> Biology? Nothing but one paper with three questions graded.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't remember ever having that much homework in biology, it was mostly in class activities.
> And maybe you should ask your children every night what they are learning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I recall at LEAST having vocabulary words in Biology...fucking having to memorize names of plant parts an' shit.
> 
> Have YOU asked a freakin 16 yo what they did in school?
> 
> "Huh. uh......grrkle...urp, ten abber dak."
> 
> WTF????
Click to expand...

Do what my dad did. Bug me so much I give in.

And i remember learning vocab, and plant names, but I just don't remember having that much homework. I think we had to study a lot due to pop quizzes, and tests. 
They don't give out a syllabus at the beginning of the school year? 
I think you mentioned something about there being an online system for the classes. There should be a syllabus on there, and they usually outline everything they are doing. 
In my classes, we have an online system, and it outlines everything. We know what we will be talking about almost every day and when stuff will be  due. Of course it is college, but I don't see the point of having everything online and them not including a syllabus.


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## AllieBaba

I also offered to attend class with my boys if they didn't start to bring home homework. I told them I was perfectly willing to quit my job and go on welfare so I could attend class with them, to make sure I was available to "help" them remember to bring home homework, and so I always knew what they were doing in their classes, since they weren't inclined to tell me. 

They believed me. I wasn't that attached to my job at the time.


----------



## Samson

Luissa said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't remember ever having that much homework in biology, it was mostly in class activities.
> And maybe you should ask your children every night what they are learning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I recall at LEAST having vocabulary words in Biology...fucking having to memorize names of plant parts an' shit.
> 
> Have YOU asked a freakin 16 yo what they did in school?
> 
> "Huh. uh......grrkle...urp, ten abber dak."
> 
> WTF????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do what my dad did. Bug me so much I give in.
> 
> And i remember learning vocab, and plant names, but I just don't remember having that much homework. I think we had to study a lot due to pop quizzes, and tests.
> They don't give out a syllabus at the beginning of the school year?
> I think you mentioned something about there being an online system for the classes. There should be a syllabus on there, and they usually outline everything they are doing.
> In my classes, we have an online system, and it outlines everything. We know what we will be talking about almost every day and when stuff will be  due. Of course it is college, but I don't see the point of having everything online and them not including a syllabus.
Click to expand...


Yeah, this kid won't give in: at any rate, the teachers are cracking under my pressure to perform more than he is.

The syllabus online is fine, but I want to see the graded papers: If he goes to class every day for a week, I expect that he leaned enough to generate ONE Grade, and that I should be able to see the evaluative tool.


----------



## Samson

AllieBaba said:


> I also offered to attend class with my boys if they didn't start to bring home homework. I told them I was perfectly willing to quit my job and go on welfare so I could attend class with them, to make sure I was available to "help" them remember to bring home homework, and so I always knew what they were doing in their classes, since they weren't inclined to tell me.
> 
> They believed me. I wasn't that attached to my job at the time.



Yeah, um, I'm not gonna quit my job to go hold my 16 yo's hand.


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Charter High School is often, as in this case, not an option: however my 14 and 7 yo are in Charter school, and I agree, you can pull strings much more easily.
> 
> Also, elementary grades receive feedback every day.....eventually, like when they're 11 or 12 graders, you begin to see less and less paper (I'm not sure this is a good thing).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tends to be as the grades get higher there are fewer, but more in depth lessons. Essays, research papers, and labs are not usually going to be done in a day.
> 
> However, you and kid should know what is going on and assignments should have clear expectations on material to be covered and how they will be assessed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree with the more in-depth lessons having a longer timeline.
> 
> But does that preclude lessons with a shorter timeline?
> 
> It seems to me quite natural to expect there would be something NEW learned every DAY, if not every WEEK, and that some evaluative tool be applied to that learning.
> 
> The fact is, teachers don't want to construct the test, grade the test, or deal with parents that question the grade. The less frequently they grade, the easier their lives are.
Click to expand...


That's why meeting with principal, student, teacher and yourself is probably a good idea. Classes are probably 45-50 minutes. Depending on the subject and project to be assessed, the class time might well be used to teach how to address aspects of the assignment. Then again, that should be clear by syllabus. 

Lower grades tend to have 'daily work' as much of the work is actually teaching the process of mastering work. By 7th or 8th grades, the student should know how he needs to acquire mastery of tasks. (For instance, learning how to memorize vocab. Learning math facts-kids learn different ways of getting to the same end.)

Needed vocabulary is listed in each text at the beginning or end of each lesson. By high school it's assumed the student recognizes such. The student is expected to be using the skills learned,  not for grade, but because they are intricate to mastery.


----------



## Annie

After pm with Samson, his concerns are justified. What I said previously holds for regular students with decent teachers. When there are special issues involved, parents must maintain control. They also need to have all the information necessary to do their part to help their child.


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tends to be as the grades get higher there are fewer, but more in depth lessons. Essays, research papers, and labs are not usually going to be done in a day.
> 
> However, you and kid should know what is going on and assignments should have clear expectations on material to be covered and how they will be assessed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with the more in-depth lessons having a longer timeline.
> 
> But does that preclude lessons with a shorter timeline?
> 
> It seems to me quite natural to expect there would be something NEW learned every DAY, if not every WEEK, and that some evaluative tool be applied to that learning.
> 
> The fact is, teachers don't want to construct the test, grade the test, or deal with parents that question the grade. The less frequently they grade, the easier their lives are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's why meeting with principal, student, teacher and yourself is probably a good idea. Classes are probably 45-50 minutes. Depending on the subject and project to be assessed, the class time might well be used to teach how to address aspects of the assignment. Then again, that should be clear by syllabus.
> 
> Lower grades tend to have 'daily work' as much of the work is actually teaching the process of mastering work. By 7th or 8th grades, the student should know how he needs to acquire mastery of tasks. (For instance, learning how to memorize vocab. Learning math facts-kids learn different ways of getting to the same end.)
> 
> Needed vocabulary is listed in each text at the beginning or end of each lesson. By high school it's _*assumed the student recognizes such*_. The student is expected to be using the skills learned,  not for grade, but because they are intricate to mastery.
Click to expand...


While I agree with this, I see no need to "assume the student recognizes such" for vocabulary, or anything else. I'm not asking for a daily assessment. I simply want a weekly quiz. 5 questions? 

Is that too much to freakin' ask? If so, why?


----------



## Luissa

I think Samson should just keep bugging them. They will get sick of him, and realize it just easier to do what he asks.

And he can come watch my father, who has perfected the art of bugging his children. Just don't wake your children up by quoting Denny's commercials. My brother and I almost murdered him when we were in high school, for one he would always come down five minutes before our alarms were due to go off. Five minutes is precious sleep time to a teenager.


----------



## Samson

Luissa said:


> I think Samson should just keep bugging them. They will get sick of him, and realize it just easier to do what he asks.
> 
> And he can come watch my father, who has perfected the art of bugging his children. Just don't wake your children up by quoting Denny's commercials. My brother and I almost murdered him when we were in high school, for one he would always come down five minutes before our alarms were due to go off. Five minutes is precious sleep time to a teenager.



I do LOVE bothering the slaves........

It should be an interesting meeting with the principal next Monday. 

I look forward to hearing him explain why my expectations are simply unreasonable.


----------



## Luissa

I just don't get why they are not giving back graded work right away. We always got our work back right away.

Last year when we had to write an essay in my Chinese history class, my teacher had them all back within in two to four days, and these were not short essays. And he had other classes. I don't remember waiting that long for assignments to come back when I was high school, maybe a week. If we corrected them in class, it was usually the next day, and that was only so they could input our grades.


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with the more in-depth lessons having a longer timeline.
> 
> But does that preclude lessons with a shorter timeline?
> 
> It seems to me quite natural to expect there would be something NEW learned every DAY, if not every WEEK, and that some evaluative tool be applied to that learning.
> 
> The fact is, teachers don't want to construct the test, grade the test, or deal with parents that question the grade. The less frequently they grade, the easier their lives are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's why meeting with principal, student, teacher and yourself is probably a good idea. Classes are probably 45-50 minutes. Depending on the subject and project to be assessed, the class time might well be used to teach how to address aspects of the assignment. Then again, that should be clear by syllabus.
> 
> Lower grades tend to have 'daily work' as much of the work is actually teaching the process of mastering work. By 7th or 8th grades, the student should know how he needs to acquire mastery of tasks. (For instance, learning how to memorize vocab. Learning math facts-kids learn different ways of getting to the same end.)
> 
> Needed vocabulary is listed in each text at the beginning or end of each lesson. By high school it's _*assumed the student recognizes such*_. The student is expected to be using the skills learned,  not for grade, but because they are intricate to mastery.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While I agree with this, I see no need to "assume the student recognizes such" for vocabulary, or anything else. I'm not asking for a daily assessment. I simply want a weekly quiz. 5 questions?
> 
> Is that too much to freakin' ask? If so, why?
Click to expand...


You know I can't say it's 'too much' to ask for, that would be condescending.  Actually it has more to do with making the kids realize they must do what they NEED to do on their own. Notice they no longer get stickers by 5th or 6th grade? Now I'm telling you, jr high kids love smiley faces when they do well, high schoolers would probably like some too. However, they are quickly moving towards college and work places where they will not be given much positive reinforcement and certainly need to develop the ability to solve problems on their own. 

College courses, heck even AP/honors courses have few grades figured into final. Often just mid-term and final exams. 

Assessments are ongoing with any grade, often just oral responses after information read or discussed. Many teachers will have exit cards or questions-quick way to assess whether the information was received as intended. No way to grade, used by teacher to tweak the lesson for the next day.


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's why meeting with principal, student, teacher and yourself is probably a good idea. Classes are probably 45-50 minutes. Depending on the subject and project to be assessed, the class time might well be used to teach how to address aspects of the assignment. Then again, that should be clear by syllabus.
> 
> Lower grades tend to have 'daily work' as much of the work is actually teaching the process of mastering work. By 7th or 8th grades, the student should know how he needs to acquire mastery of tasks. (For instance, learning how to memorize vocab. Learning math facts-kids learn different ways of getting to the same end.)
> 
> Needed vocabulary is listed in each text at the beginning or end of each lesson. By high school it's _*assumed the student recognizes such*_. The student is expected to be using the skills learned,  not for grade, but because they are intricate to mastery.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I agree with this, I see no need to "assume the student recognizes such" for vocabulary, or anything else. I'm not asking for a daily assessment. I simply want a weekly quiz. 5 questions?
> 
> Is that too much to freakin' ask? If so, why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know I can't say it's 'too much' to ask for, that would be condescending.  Actually it has more to do with making the kids realize they must do what they NEED to do on their own. Notice they no longer get stickers by 5th or 6th grade? Now I'm telling you, jr high kids love smiley faces when they do well, high schoolers would probably like some too. However, they are quickly moving towards college and work places where they will not be given much positive reinforcement and certainly need to develop the ability to solve problems on their own.
> 
> College courses, heck even AP/honors courses have few grades figured into final. Often just mid-term and final exams.
> 
> Assessments are ongoing with any grade, often just oral responses after information read or discussed. Many teachers will have exit cards or questions-quick way to assess whether the information was received as intended. No way to grade, used by teacher to tweak the lesson for the next day.
Click to expand...


Agreed: I've taught grades 8-12, math and physics, including AP Physics.

I always gave weekly grades, no matter who I was teaching. Usually MORE.

The resistance to my request for weekly graded papers is just astonishing. If I was to complain to a principal about a parent that wished to have weekly feedback, I can very confidently report they'd say, "Do it."

Period, no debate, no discussion, no excuses, no whining.

Get it done.


----------



## kwc57

Samson said:


> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???



Me. I don't worry about it.  My 17 year old senior seems to already know EVERYTHING!!!


----------



## Samson

kwc57 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Me. I don't worry about it.  My 17 year old senior seems to already know EVERYTHING!!!
Click to expand...



I'm worrying about it now.

I'm not gonna worry about it later.


----------



## strollingbones

you DO realize this is going on your permanent record?


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't they just send the graded assignments home with your spawn?
> 
> Isn't that how they do it?  Or do teachers these days horde all the assignments?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, the slave isn't the most reliable conveyance...
Click to expand...


Use these:







And the back of the shirt.


----------



## Granny

Good Lord - I always had homework every night in every subject (except PE of course).  My biology teacher had strict requirements.  We had to print all our papers by exacting standards or not be graded unless it was an &#8220;F.&#8221;  No long-hand written work was acceptable.  I always liked that little squiggly thing on the "g."


----------



## ConHog

Granny said:


> Good Lord - I always had homework every night in every subject (except PE of course).  My biology teacher had strict requirements.  We had to print all our papers by exacting standards or not be graded unless it was an F.  No long-hand written work was acceptable.  I always liked that little squiggly thing on the "g."



By print, you mean on a Gugenheim press I imagine?


----------



## asterism

Samson said:


> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???



Yes, you are being unreasonable.  You see, it's tough for a Theater Education major to teach Earth Science.  It's really hard for a person with seven degrees, all related to Special Education and Athletics to teach Algebra.  But that doesn't even scratch the surface, because there are all these new requirements like that SIX WEEK course on MICROSOFT WORD getting in the way of the History major struggling to teach Biology.

Then there's the problem of the Principal who is too busy with the grants for the new Library to put together a means to be in touch with the involved parents (since that's what he complained about for two years, bad students being the product of uninvolved parents) to take the EIGHT WEEK course on MICROSOFT OUTLOOK.  So you see, you are just being unreasonable.

And don't even think about homeschooling your 10th grader because while your kid will be quite proficient in all the basics, she won't the get the "social skills" that public school teaches so well.  Well unless they are like my kids, where they can socialize on the playground, at dance class, in church youth group, in scouts, and anytime our families get together.  That's apparently not sufficient to the guidance counselor who has never had kids and thinks churches are oppressive and scouts is just a hotbed of racism and homophobia.  He has a law degree (never passed the bar) so he knows these things.

BAH!

I applaud you for trying, but that's why my kids are in private school


----------



## Cecilie1200

Samson said:


> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???



What really amuses me about this is that teachers and other public school affiliates love to blame the declining quality of public education on a lack of parental involvement.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't they just send the graded assignments home with your spawn?
> 
> Isn't that how they do it?  Or do teachers these days horde all the assignments?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, the slave isn't the most reliable conveyance, but after a fuckin' month I expect him to have the proceeedure of receiving a paper, transporting it home, letting me know he has it, and if necessary returning it to school.
> 
> Some complain that I'm interfering with their horde, arguing that they like to wait until "The end of the Unit" to send all the graded work home. But what I'm seeing is lost of grade entries that do not require ANY objective evaluation: "Participation" grades, and very few quizzes, tests, and things that require a student to place their pencil to a piece of paper!!
Click to expand...


Not to mention that "waiting until the end of the unit" isn't helpful if your plan is to nip bad behavior in the bud.


----------



## Ravi

Samson said:


> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???


It's the teachers fault your 10th grader is a fuck up?

Interesting.


----------



## Cecilie1200

AllieBaba said:


> If I don't go through my kids' backpack every day I miss all sorts of things...and their homework is sent home. But I walk into their classroom at least once a week, ostensibly to give Wallybaba his eyeglasses or pay for lunches or something. But that contact is never amiss, I'm able to sort of keep on top of what is going on.
> 
> I love it that my kids are in a charter school. This year the focus is on the watershed! How cool is that! The whole school is going to go canoeing at some point....



I like my son's charter school very much, as well.  He has an advisor, with whom he meets twice a week to review his progress, discuss any problems he may be having, and finetune his educational path (schedule extra lab time, connect with a tutor, etc.).  I can waltz into the school any time I like and have a sit-down with his advisor and get an up-to-the-minute progress report on him, both academically and socially, because she's actually plugged into his day-to-day school activities.


----------



## Cecilie1200

goldcatt said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't they just send the graded assignments home with your spawn?
> 
> Isn't that how they do it?  Or do teachers these days horde all the assignments?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the slave isn't the most reliable conveyance, but after a fuckin' month I expect him to have the proceeedure of receiving a paper, transporting it home, letting me know he has it, and if necessary returning it to school.
> 
> Some complain that I'm interfering with their horde, arguing that they like to wait until "The end of the Unit" to send all the graded work home. But what I'm seeing is lost of grade entries that do not require ANY objective evaluation: "Participation" grades, and very few quizzes, tests, and things that require a student to place their pencil to a piece of paper!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good luck. They bypassed the principal altogether and I got called to the District Office last year after discovering by sheer accident that my pups had been yanked from their educational environment and placed in enrichment classes twice a week so I demanded to see their IEP's - as required by law - to find out exactly what "enriching" activities they were participating in. I won. Eventually.
Click to expand...


May I ask what "enriching" activities they were participating in?


----------



## Cecilie1200

Luissa said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What grade is the child in? How long has school been in session? Were there problems last year?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 10th
> 
> about a month: I know, not much time, but GET THE LEAD OUT!
> 
> Problems EVERY year....wait until 9 weeks are up, then WFT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING??? has been SOP. Not so this year.
> 
> English 10, for example....I have not seen a graded paper for the past TWO WEEKS?
> 
> Biology? Nothing but one paper with three questions graded.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't remember ever having that much homework in biology, it was mostly in class activities.
> And maybe you should ask your children every night what they are learning.
Click to expand...


We had homework AND class activities in biology.  There's no point in the school purchasing a fetal pig for me to hack up if I haven't bothered to study the correlating section in the book first so that I know what I'm looking at.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with the more in-depth lessons having a longer timeline.
> 
> But does that preclude lessons with a shorter timeline?
> 
> It seems to me quite natural to expect there would be something NEW learned every DAY, if not every WEEK, and that some evaluative tool be applied to that learning.
> 
> The fact is, teachers don't want to construct the test, grade the test, or deal with parents that question the grade. The less frequently they grade, the easier their lives are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's why meeting with principal, student, teacher and yourself is probably a good idea. Classes are probably 45-50 minutes. Depending on the subject and project to be assessed, the class time might well be used to teach how to address aspects of the assignment. Then again, that should be clear by syllabus.
> 
> Lower grades tend to have 'daily work' as much of the work is actually teaching the process of mastering work. By 7th or 8th grades, the student should know how he needs to acquire mastery of tasks. (For instance, learning how to memorize vocab. Learning math facts-kids learn different ways of getting to the same end.)
> 
> Needed vocabulary is listed in each text at the beginning or end of each lesson. By high school it's _*assumed the student recognizes such*_. The student is expected to be using the skills learned,  not for grade, but because they are intricate to mastery.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While I agree with this, I see no need to "assume the student recognizes such" for vocabulary, or anything else. I'm not asking for a daily assessment. I simply want a weekly quiz. 5 questions?
> 
> Is that too much to freakin' ask? If so, why?
Click to expand...


To my way of thinking, if your kid already knows all the relevant vocabulary, then that means they're just reviewing things he's already learned instead of teaching him anything new.  It's not like biology vocabulary - for example - is commonly used in everyday language.  It's technical jargon, for crying out loud, and if the subject matter's new, then it is by God going to have new vocabulary he's never heard or used before.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Luissa said:


> I just don't get why they are not giving back graded work right away. We always got our work back right away.
> 
> Last year when we had to write an essay in my Chinese history class, my teacher had them all back within in two to four days, and these were not short essays. And he had other classes. I don't remember waiting that long for assignments to come back when I was high school, maybe a week. If we corrected them in class, it was usually the next day, and that was only so they could input our grades.



One could guess that the teacher simply doesn't want to put in the time necessary to grade the papers that quickly, if one were cynical and pessimistic.  Otherwise . . .


----------



## Cecilie1200

kwc57 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Me. I don't worry about it.  My 17 year old senior seems to already know EVERYTHING!!!
Click to expand...


Quick!  Have him go get a job and start supporting you NOW, while he still knows it all!


----------



## Samson

asterism said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you are being unreasonable.  You see, it's tough for a Theater Education major to teach Earth Science.  It's really hard for a person with seven degrees, all related to Special Education and Athletics to teach Algebra.  But that doesn't even scratch the surface, because there are all these new requirements like that SIX WEEK course on MICROSOFT WORD getting in the way of the History major struggling to teach Biology.
> 
> Then there's the problem of the Principal who is too busy with the grants for the new Library to put together a means to be in touch with the involved parents (since that's what he complained about for two years, bad students being the product of uninvolved parents) to take the EIGHT WEEK course on MICROSOFT OUTLOOK.  So you see, you are just being unreasonable.
> 
> And don't even think about homeschooling your 10th grader because while your kid will be quite proficient in all the basics, she won't the get the "social skills" that public school teaches so well.  Well unless they are like my kids, where they can socialize on the playground, at dance class, in church youth group, in scouts, and anytime our families get together.  That's apparently not sufficient to the guidance counselor who has never had kids and thinks churches are oppressive and scouts is just a hotbed of racism and homophobia.  He has a law degree (never passed the bar) so he knows these things.
> 
> BAH!
> 
> I applaud you for trying, but that's why my kids are in private school
Click to expand...


Yes, I appreciate the very accurate parody of the public school system.

I've actually considered the home schooling option, but don't believe he's anywhere NEAR mature enough to do it.

I'm guessing the Principal wants to talk to me about the broadcast e-mail I send to all his teachers at the end of the week, praising the amount of grading I see in World History and Health, and then wondering if he did anything in Biology or English or Geometry?

My guess is that the teachers hate the competition I've created among themselves to do anything.

At any rate, I'll agree to seperate the email recipients, if I can get graded work back on a weekly basis.


----------



## asterism

Samson said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you are being unreasonable.  You see, it's tough for a Theater Education major to teach Earth Science.  It's really hard for a person with seven degrees, all related to Special Education and Athletics to teach Algebra.  But that doesn't even scratch the surface, because there are all these new requirements like that SIX WEEK course on MICROSOFT WORD getting in the way of the History major struggling to teach Biology.
> 
> Then there's the problem of the Principal who is too busy with the grants for the new Library to put together a means to be in touch with the involved parents (since that's what he complained about for two years, bad students being the product of uninvolved parents) to take the EIGHT WEEK course on MICROSOFT OUTLOOK.  So you see, you are just being unreasonable.
> 
> And don't even think about homeschooling your 10th grader because while your kid will be quite proficient in all the basics, she won't the get the "social skills" that public school teaches so well.  Well unless they are like my kids, where they can socialize on the playground, at dance class, in church youth group, in scouts, and anytime our families get together.  That's apparently not sufficient to the guidance counselor who has never had kids and thinks churches are oppressive and scouts is just a hotbed of racism and homophobia.  He has a law degree (never passed the bar) so he knows these things.
> 
> BAH!
> 
> I applaud you for trying, but that's why my kids are in private school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I appreciate the very accurate parody of the public school system.
> 
> I've actually considered the home schooling option, but don't believe he's anywhere NEAR mature enough to do it.
> 
> I'm guessing the Principal wants to talk to me about the broadcast e-mail I send to all his teachers at the end of the week, praising the amount of grading I see in World History and Health, and then wondering if he did anything in Biology or English or Geometry?
> 
> My guess is that the teachers hate the competition I've created among themselves to do anything.
> 
> At any rate, I'll agree to seperate the email recipients, if I can get graded work back on a weekly basis.
Click to expand...


Bring a tape recorder.


----------



## Samson

Cecilie1200 said:


> What really amuses me about this is that teachers and other public school affiliates love to blame the declining quality of public education on a lack of parental involvement.



The Irony will not be lost during my meeting on Monday



Cecilie1200 said:


> Not to mention that "waiting until the end of the unit" isn't helpful if your plan is to nip bad behavior in the bud.



Yes...duh! You'd think this would be OBVIOUS wouldn't you?



Cecilie1200 said:


> I like my son's charter school very much, as well.  He has an advisor, with whom he meets twice a week to review his progress, discuss any problems he may be having, and finetune his educational path (schedule extra lab time, connect with a tutor, etc.).  I can waltz into the school any time I like and have a sit-down with his advisor and get an up-to-the-minute progress report on him, both academically and socially, because she's actually plugged into his day-to-day school activities.



Hope the school goes through HS.



Cecilie1200 said:


> We had homework AND class activities in biology.  There's no point in the school purchasing a fetal pig for me to hack up if I haven't bothered to study the correlating section in the book first so that I know what I'm looking at.



Exactly! And how does anyone know if you bothered to study anything? They just assume that as a responsible 10th grader, you did it? They ask,"Hey did you read the section," and if you say, "Yes" you get a 100% participation grade??? WTF???


----------



## Samson

asterism said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you are being unreasonable.  You see, it's tough for a Theater Education major to teach Earth Science.  It's really hard for a person with seven degrees, all related to Special Education and Athletics to teach Algebra.  But that doesn't even scratch the surface, because there are all these new requirements like that SIX WEEK course on MICROSOFT WORD getting in the way of the History major struggling to teach Biology.
> 
> Then there's the problem of the Principal who is too busy with the grants for the new Library to put together a means to be in touch with the involved parents (since that's what he complained about for two years, bad students being the product of uninvolved parents) to take the EIGHT WEEK course on MICROSOFT OUTLOOK.  So you see, you are just being unreasonable.
> 
> And don't even think about homeschooling your 10th grader because while your kid will be quite proficient in all the basics, she won't the get the "social skills" that public school teaches so well.  Well unless they are like my kids, where they can socialize on the playground, at dance class, in church youth group, in scouts, and anytime our families get together.  That's apparently not sufficient to the guidance counselor who has never had kids and thinks churches are oppressive and scouts is just a hotbed of racism and homophobia.  He has a law degree (never passed the bar) so he knows these things.
> 
> BAH!
> 
> I applaud you for trying, but that's why my kids are in private school
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I appreciate the very accurate parody of the public school system.
> 
> I've actually considered the home schooling option, but don't believe he's anywhere NEAR mature enough to do it.
> 
> I'm guessing the Principal wants to talk to me about the broadcast e-mail I send to all his teachers at the end of the week, praising the amount of grading I see in World History and Health, and then wondering if he did anything in Biology or English or Geometry?
> 
> My guess is that the teachers hate the competition I've created among themselves to do anything.
> 
> At any rate, I'll agree to seperate the email recipients, if I can get graded work back on a weekly basis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bring a tape recorder.
Click to expand...


----------



## xotoxi

ConHog said:


> Although when I was in school we did have some teachers that didn't even grade homework and such until the end of the semester, they made you do it then lug it around in a binder all semester, if you lost that binder you were screwed. I always thought those teachers were lazy.



Did you think it was the teachers responsibility to keep track of your shit?


----------



## syrenn

Yank then out of public school and enroll them in a private school.

Start asking the principal for the papers see how that goes over.


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Although when I was in school we did have some teachers that didn't even grade homework and such until the end of the semester, they made you do it then lug it around in a binder all semester, if you lost that binder you were screwed. I always thought those teachers were lazy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you think it was the teachers responsibility to keep track of your shit?
Click to expand...


I did it.

Here's the deal I'd give students:

You have 10 homework problems to do.....I want them on your desk for me to check when class begins...I check 5 of them (the lowest grade you get is a 50). Then you bring the paper home, get it signed, bring it back, and I give you 20 MORE points up to a 100.

At the end of class I pick up papers from anyone that wants to turn them in, record the grades, and put them in a file. If a mom or dad wants to see their kids work I get the file out, sift through the pile, get their kids papers, and we look at them.

Of course, there was never the uncomfortable case, where no paper was available, because even a BLANK signed paper would get a 50.


----------



## Samson

syrenn said:


> Yank then out of public school and enroll them in a private school.
> 
> Start asking the principal for the papers see how that goes over.



Yeah, he'll probably ask me to go through him, but that was the plan all along if the teachers proved uncooperative.

I'm not spending money on private school.


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't they just send the graded assignments home with your spawn?
> 
> Isn't that how they do it?  Or do teachers these days horde all the assignments?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the slave isn't the most reliable conveyance...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Use these:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the back of the shirt.
Click to expand...


I'm considering one of these:






And his forehead.


----------



## syrenn

Samson said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yank then out of public school and enroll them in a private school.
> 
> Start asking the principal for the papers see how that goes over.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, he'll probably ask me to go through him, but that was the plan all along if the teachers proved uncooperative.
> 
> I'm not spending money on private school.
Click to expand...



You do realize that this would not be an issue if they were in private school don't you?

I tell ya, the principal will get fed up eventually and turn it all over to the teacher in the end. This is going to be a squeaky wheel deal.


----------



## Samson

syrenn said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yank then out of public school and enroll them in a private school.
> 
> Start asking the principal for the papers see how that goes over.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, he'll probably ask me to go through him, but that was the plan all along if the teachers proved uncooperative.
> 
> I'm not spending money on private school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize that this would not be an issue if they were in private school don't you?
> 
> I tell ya, the principal will get fed up eventually and turn it all over to the teacher in the end. This is going to be a squeaky wheel deal.
Click to expand...


I'm astonished its an issue in a public school!

I really expected that IF the teachers whined about MY POLICY, then the admin would tell the teacher to grow a pair, and get a fucking graded paper out ONCE A GODDAMN WEEK!!

I'm wondering if there's something I'm not aware of that has made this principal such a weinie.


----------



## syrenn

Samson said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, he'll probably ask me to go through him, but that was the plan all along if the teachers proved uncooperative.
> 
> I'm not spending money on private school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize that this would not be an issue if they were in private school don't you?
> 
> I tell ya, the principal will get fed up eventually and turn it all over to the teacher in the end. This is going to be a squeaky wheel deal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm astonished its an issue in a public school!
> 
> I really expected that IF the teachers whined about MY POLICY, then the admin would tell the teacher to grow a pair, and get a fucking graded paper out ONCE A GODDAMN WEEK!!
> 
> I'm wondering if there's something I'm not aware of that has made this principal such a weinie.
Click to expand...


Public school and unions teachers, what did you expect? I am amazed you didn't think that it was going to be a problem. You are asking them to work and do their jobs you know.


----------



## Samson

syrenn said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize that this would not be an issue if they were in private school don't you?
> 
> I tell ya, the principal will get fed up eventually and turn it all over to the teacher in the end. This is going to be a squeaky wheel deal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm astonished its an issue in a public school!
> 
> I really expected that IF the teachers whined about MY POLICY, then the admin would tell the teacher to grow a pair, and get a fucking graded paper out ONCE A GODDAMN WEEK!!
> 
> I'm wondering if there's something I'm not aware of that has made this principal such a weinie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Public school and unions teachers, what did you expect? I am amazed you didn't think that it was going to be a problem. You are asking them to work and do their jobs you know.
Click to expand...


Well, its Colorado vs Texas....I'm used to Texas, where Teacher Unions are Prohibited from striking


----------



## Cecilie1200

Samson said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What really amuses me about this is that teachers and other public school affiliates love to blame the declining quality of public education on a lack of parental involvement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Irony will not be lost during my meeting on Monday
Click to expand...


Glad I could help.  



Samson said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not to mention that "waiting until the end of the unit" isn't helpful if your plan is to nip bad behavior in the bud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...duh! You'd think this would be OBVIOUS wouldn't you?
Click to expand...


Well, yes, but that's why I don't send my kids to regular public schools:  because what's obvious to me doesn't ever seem to be obvious to them.



Samson said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like my son's charter school very much, as well.  He has an advisor, with whom he meets twice a week to review his progress, discuss any problems he may be having, and finetune his educational path (schedule extra lab time, connect with a tutor, etc.).  I can waltz into the school any time I like and have a sit-down with his advisor and get an up-to-the-minute progress report on him, both academically and socially, because she's actually plugged into his day-to-day school activities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope the school goes through HS.
Click to expand...


It is, indeed, a high school.  You should see how stunned some people are to find out that this year, his freshman year, is the first time my son has ever attended a school.



Samson said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We had homework AND class activities in biology.  There's no point in the school purchasing a fetal pig for me to hack up if I haven't bothered to study the correlating section in the book first so that I know what I'm looking at.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly! And how does anyone know if you bothered to study anything? They just assume that as a responsible 10th grader, you did it? They ask,"Hey did you read the section," and if you say, "Yes" you get a 100% participation grade??? WTF???
Click to expand...


Nowadays, perhaps, depending on the school district.  Back then, they knew because the teacher lectured extensively on the subject - because he actually had a degree in science  - and filled in all the extra detail that wasn't contained in the textbook.  He answered questions, and "participation grades" consisted of us asking AND answering questions in class, other than "Did you do the reading?"  THEN we had to do the questions in the book.  As I recall, that textbook had small sections of questions throughout the chapter, with a two- or three-page section of questions at the end of each chapter.  THAT section even had essay questions.


----------



## Samson

Cecilie1200 said:


> THEN we had to do the questions in the book.  As I recall, that textbook had small sections of questions throughout the chapter, with a two- or three-page section of questions at the end of each chapter.  THAT section even had essay questions.



Exactly.

But I always skipped the essay questions.


----------



## asterism

Samson said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, he'll probably ask me to go through him, but that was the plan all along if the teachers proved uncooperative.
> 
> I'm not spending money on private school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize that this would not be an issue if they were in private school don't you?
> 
> I tell ya, the principal will get fed up eventually and turn it all over to the teacher in the end. This is going to be a squeaky wheel deal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm astonished its an issue in a public school!
> 
> I really expected that IF the teachers whined about MY POLICY, then the admin would tell the teacher to grow a pair, and get a fucking graded paper out ONCE A GODDAMN WEEK!!
> 
> I'm wondering if there's something I'm not aware of that has made this principal such a weinie.
Click to expand...


YOUR policy doesn't matter.  THIER policy rules the roost.

Don't discount the fact that the teachers actually want to do the right thing but the administration has so much bureaucratic bullshit in the way.  I've never seen a good Principal get in the way of involved parents getting things done, but I've seen plenty of bad ones do it.

That reminds me, calling Child Protective Services is an option for these hacks.  It's an intimidation factor used quite a bit.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Samson said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> THEN we had to do the questions in the book.  As I recall, that textbook had small sections of questions throughout the chapter, with a two- or three-page section of questions at the end of each chapter.  THAT section even had essay questions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly.
> 
> But I always skipped the essay questions.
Click to expand...


Yeah, well, a lot of teachers did, I think because they didn't have the heart to dig through 30 papers worth of faulty grammar and illegible penmanship.  Essay questions were handy, though, for making you actually THINK about the subject, rather than just looking it up in the book.


----------



## Cecilie1200

asterism said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize that this would not be an issue if they were in private school don't you?
> 
> I tell ya, the principal will get fed up eventually and turn it all over to the teacher in the end. This is going to be a squeaky wheel deal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm astonished its an issue in a public school!
> 
> I really expected that IF the teachers whined about MY POLICY, then the admin would tell the teacher to grow a pair, and get a fucking graded paper out ONCE A GODDAMN WEEK!!
> 
> I'm wondering if there's something I'm not aware of that has made this principal such a weinie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YOUR policy doesn't matter.  THIER policy rules the roost.
> 
> Don't discount the fact that the teachers actually want to do the right thing but the administration has so much bureaucratic bullshit in the way.  I've never seen a good Principal get in the way of involved parents getting things done, but I've seen plenty of bad ones do it.
> 
> That reminds me, calling Child Protective Services is an option for these hacks.  It's an intimidation factor used quite a bit.
Click to expand...


I'm trying to imagine that phone call to CPS.  "Hi, I want to report this abusive parent.  He's too damned involved in his kid's education, and it's pissing me off."


----------



## Granny

ConHog said:


> Granny said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good Lord - I always had homework every night in every subject (except PE of course).  My biology teacher had strict requirements.  We had to print all our papers by exacting standards or not be graded unless it was an F.  No long-hand written work was acceptable.  I always liked that little squiggly thing on the "g."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By print, you mean on a Gugenheim press I imagine?
Click to expand...


  Well ... I'm not really THAT old - yet old enough that when I was in school we never reached the last section of the biology book covering human anatomy and ........ !


----------



## Wry Catcher

Kids and adults have different learning styles.  One characteristic of small children is an innate curiousity:  "What's that?" is the first phrase I recall my kids asking, over and over and over.  Sadly, by the time they've been subjugated for a year or two in the classroom, the curiosity has been replaced by resentment.  Especially with active kids, not ADD or ADHD or some other "illness" offered as a way to mitigate the frustration of teachers.  Most parents experience frustration at times with only one or two kids, can you image 20, 30 or more at one time, every day?
That said, we have been teaching our kids the same way, year after year with the same results.  We all know what that is called, don't we?
On another thread - which died because there seem to be too few ideas and the thread itself did not lend to name calling - ideas on how public education might be 'fixed', I for one found it very interesting.
None of this has much on topic detail; I'm simply glad my kids survived into responsible and curious adults in spite of the efforts by the public school to curtail that.


----------



## Wry Catcher

Granny said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Granny said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good Lord - I always had homework every night in every subject (except PE of course).  My biology teacher had strict requirements.  We had to print all our papers by exacting standards or not be graded unless it was an F.  No long-hand written work was acceptable.  I always liked that little squiggly thing on the "g."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By print, you mean on a Gugenheim press I imagine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well ... I'm not really THAT old - yet old enough that when I was in school we never reached the last section of the biology book covering human anatomy and ........ !
Click to expand...


Gee, we covered that, it was a homework assignment usually completed in the park right next to the library.


----------



## Samson

asterism said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize that this would not be an issue if they were in private school don't you?
> 
> I tell ya, the principal will get fed up eventually and turn it all over to the teacher in the end. This is going to be a squeaky wheel deal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm astonished its an issue in a public school!
> 
> I really expected that IF the teachers whined about MY POLICY, then the admin would tell the teacher to grow a pair, and get a fucking graded paper out ONCE A GODDAMN WEEK!!
> 
> I'm wondering if there's something I'm not aware of that has made this principal such a weinie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YOUR policy doesn't matter.  THIER policy rules the roost.
> 
> Don't discount the fact that the teachers actually want to do the right thing but the administration has so much bureaucratic bullshit in the way.  I've never seen a good Principal get in the way of involved parents getting things done, but I've seen plenty of bad ones do it.
> 
> That reminds me, calling Child Protective Services is an option for these hacks.  It's an intimidation factor used quite a bit.
Click to expand...


Well, in THEORY it is the parental policy that's supposed to  "rule the roost."

In PRACTICE.....well, not so much, _IF THEY CAN HELP IT._ I'd be amazed if any parent had ever detailed their parental policy to them. I'm certain CPS would be interested in the documentation of weekly emails I have to demonstrate my interest in My Slave's scholastic Progress. In fact, perhaps so would the local paper.....

Remember I have worked within the system, and if you can avoid ANY interaction with parents, then you do it: "Open House" nights are very carefully scripted to ensure there's almost no time for anyone who may ask serious questions about the school's activities.


----------



## kwc57

Cecilie1200 said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Me. I don't worry about it.  My 17 year old senior seems to already know EVERYTHING!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Quick!  Have him go get a job and start supporting you NOW, while he still knows it all!
Click to expand...


He actually works two jobs to pay for his truck, insurance and gas.


----------



## Cecilie1200

kwc57 said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Me. I don't worry about it.  My 17 year old senior seems to already know EVERYTHING!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quick!  Have him go get a job and start supporting you NOW, while he still knows it all!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He actually works two jobs to pay for his truck, insurance and gas.
Click to expand...


Good for him, AND you.


----------



## asterism

Cecilie1200 said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm astonished its an issue in a public school!
> 
> I really expected that IF the teachers whined about MY POLICY, then the admin would tell the teacher to grow a pair, and get a fucking graded paper out ONCE A GODDAMN WEEK!!
> 
> I'm wondering if there's something I'm not aware of that has made this principal such a weinie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YOUR policy doesn't matter.  THIER policy rules the roost.
> 
> Don't discount the fact that the teachers actually want to do the right thing but the administration has so much bureaucratic bullshit in the way.  I've never seen a good Principal get in the way of involved parents getting things done, but I've seen plenty of bad ones do it.
> 
> That reminds me, calling Child Protective Services is an option for these hacks.  It's an intimidation factor used quite a bit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm trying to imagine that phone call to CPS.  "Hi, I want to report this abusive parent.  He's too damned involved in his kid's education, and it's pissing me off."
Click to expand...


Or, "I think you should look into this parent, he seems belligerent and controlling.  His child is having problems and he's taking it out on the school."


----------



## asterism

Samson said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm astonished its an issue in a public school!
> 
> I really expected that IF the teachers whined about MY POLICY, then the admin would tell the teacher to grow a pair, and get a fucking graded paper out ONCE A GODDAMN WEEK!!
> 
> I'm wondering if there's something I'm not aware of that has made this principal such a weinie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YOUR policy doesn't matter.  THIER policy rules the roost.
> 
> Don't discount the fact that the teachers actually want to do the right thing but the administration has so much bureaucratic bullshit in the way.  I've never seen a good Principal get in the way of involved parents getting things done, but I've seen plenty of bad ones do it.
> 
> That reminds me, calling Child Protective Services is an option for these hacks.  It's an intimidation factor used quite a bit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, in THEORY it is the parental policy that's supposed to  "rule the roost."
> 
> In PRACTICE.....well, not so much, _IF THEY CAN HELP IT._ I'd be amazed if any parent had ever detailed their parental policy to them. I'm certain CPS would be interested in the documentation of weekly emails I have to demonstrate my interest in My Slave's scholastic Progress. In fact, perhaps so would the local paper.....
> 
> Remember I have worked within the system, and if you can avoid ANY interaction with parents, then you do it: "Open House" nights are very carefully scripted to ensure there's almost no time for anyone who may ask serious questions about the school's activities.
Click to expand...


Well you are certainly correct in your priorities.


----------



## Samson

asterism said:


> Or, "I think you should look into this parent, he seems belligerent and controlling.  His child is having problems and he's taking it out on the school."



Certainly that's a possibility, but I'd think it would be a one trick pony: I.E. There's parents that REALLY ARE belligerent, and I humbly suggest that I'm certainly not the worst they've seen....

.......yet.


----------



## JWBooth

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't they just send the graded assignments home with your spawn?
> 
> Isn't that how they do it?  Or do teachers these days horde all the assignments?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, the slave isn't the most reliable conveyance, but after a fuckin' month I expect him to have the proceeedure of receiving a paper, transporting it home, letting me know he has it, and if necessary returning it to school.
> 
> Some complain that I'm interfering with their horde, arguing that they like to wait until "The end of the Unit" to send all the graded work home. But what I'm seeing is lost of grade entries that do not require ANY objective evaluation: "Participation" grades, and very few quizzes, tests, and things that require a student to place their pencil to a piece of paper!!
Click to expand...


Good for you, damn glad to see somebody with an active interest in their kids learning.

Sadly, in many cases your/mine/our input and oversight isnt wanted.  Indeed the trend seems to be that we are to be excluded completely.  We might get involved and interfere with the satus quo.


----------



## Annie

JWBooth said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't they just send the graded assignments home with your spawn?
> 
> Isn't that how they do it?  Or do teachers these days horde all the assignments?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the slave isn't the most reliable conveyance, but after a fuckin' month I expect him to have the proceeedure of receiving a paper, transporting it home, letting me know he has it, and if necessary returning it to school.
> 
> Some complain that I'm interfering with their horde, arguing that they like to wait until "The end of the Unit" to send all the graded work home. But what I'm seeing is lost of grade entries that do not require ANY objective evaluation: "Participation" grades, and very few quizzes, tests, and things that require a student to place their pencil to a piece of paper!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good for you, damn glad to see somebody with an active interest in their kids learning.
> 
> Sadly, in many cases your/mine/our input and oversight isnt wanted.  Indeed the trend seems to be that we are to be excluded completely.  We might get involved and interfere with the satus quo.
Click to expand...


I agree in the main with concern. Samson child is in a different place than most high school students, one that's right for him and luckily he has the parents that will make the system work for him. 

The idea of parents being on top of what their kids are doing and what the school is teaching,  . With that said, there are markers of where parents day-to-day interaction with school and assignments should be intense and then lay off. Of course, some kids need much more help than others, some are born to succeed in school. 

K-2  School and parent interaction should be ongoing. Good practices would indicate at least a weekly newsletter, even daily if online postings are possible. Spelling words, pretests, tests should be on same days. Every day there should be math and reading work for home. Daily and weekly folders should contain both examples of work before and after grading. Homework should be practice only-no new material and take no longer than 15-20 minutes for average child. 

3rd  Homework time would increase to 20-30 minutes for average child. Again there should be nightly math and reading. Assignment notebooks should begin, with both parent and teacher signatures required at least until there are 3 weeks of perfect entries regarding assignments and materials home. Same spelling requirements regarding pretests, etc. Homework still should be 'practice only, not applying concepts.' 

4th  Probably the most traumatic year for kids and parents. Homework jumps to 30-45 minutes on average, sometimes an hour. Still math, reading, spelling. Add in daily math fact tests, timed on top. Science and social studies homework becomes more frequent, often entailing written responses. Vocabulary related to subject matter jargon becomes much more difficult and part of homework. Heavy emphasis on projects and individual responsibilities. Assignment notebooks should no longer be an issue, if so, the parents and teacher need to make clear to student that this is something that must be mastered. 

5th  Pretty static from 4th grade. Since the kids already have done the 4th grade, homework time might actually decrease. Problem for most-hormones are going nuts! 

6-8th Middle school years in most locales. Homework times differ greatly depending on student, different teachers, and curriculum. May vary from little or occasionally none to an hour or more. Tests in language arts, math, science tend towards objective grading. Test and assignments in reading, social studies, and science tend more so towards subjective and written work. Often involving 2-4 week projects, the student must develop skills on breaking down work into chunks. If the teacher is just saying that a project is due in 4 weeks, without breaking it into steps-GET IN THERE AND DEMAND WHAT IS EXPECTED AND WHEN. These are skills that a person needs in high school and beyond, allocating time is very difficult for most kids, they cannot do it on their own. 

Most 6th graders need literally a step-by-step model, with examples.
7th graders need the model with anything new, using examples.
8th graders should be able to chunk the work on their own. They shouldn't require grading for bibliographies. They should know and avoid plagiarism. There should be time alloted though for students to one-on-one with instructor on where they have questions or need suggestions. 

In all cases a rubric, which spells out each part of the project with criteria should be provided with the lesson assigned. The kid should know from day 1 what an 'A, B, C, D' project looks like. The objectives of the project should also be given on the assignment. This means: When finished, this is what the project demonstrates I have mastered. 

Some 6th graders are good to go when they get the assignment, rubric, and due date. Some 8th graders aren't. The teacher should know the older kids that aren't ready and be in contact with the parents. 

Having taught middle school for more than a decade, the average 6th grader needs lots of feedback from teacher, each step of the way. 7th graders are mostly on task, though they need help at staying on schedule. The 8th graders that have problems are few, usually they either hate school because of social or home problems or really having trouble keeping up. If the child is having major issues with completing assignments serious conferences are indicated. High school is going to be very difficult if things do not change. 

Most public middle schools have instituted blocs for the kids-often overlapping curriculum with appropriate time alloted. Social studies or science often team up with reading/language arts. Instead of 2 periods of 50 minutes, there is a bloc of 110 minutes. Assigned project may be Native Americans with social studies giving background on a novel. The content of project graded by social studies teacher, the style graded by language arts teacher. Often the same teachers will 'remain' with the same group of kids throughout middle school-a great idea for most! However, not so good if personality problems with your child and one of the teachers. 

In high school, little team teaching. Little or no repetition of teachers through 9-12th grades. In big high schools, I went to one of 4k+, the likelihood of the teacher really knowing the average student? Not so good. They are grading their work, they have little clue if it's their 'best' or 'done in the morning' work. 

Truth to tell, the best thing that parents can do for their kids, if they want them to be successful:

Early years: 

make sure they know where they are to work at home, until high school my kids knew that was the kitchen table, so I could monitor. From preschool, let them know where their backpack goes. Tell them where to put notes, letters, etc., as soon as they come home-this avoids the need for safety pins. By 3rd grade, make it clear that if they fail to give notes, etc., there are consequences. Follow through. 

Be clear on the order to do things. For my kids it was come home and put backpack on kitchen floor. Change clothes. Eat snack. Outside for about 1/2 hour. Homework. Everything back in backpack, including anything requiring parent signatures, $$, etc. Leave book bag on hook by door-Basically you want them to trip/stumble over them in the morning-then they won't be forgotten. If time before dinner, outside. If not, finish homework after dinner. 1/2 hour tv or computer. Shower, story (when little), bed.

1-3 grade bedtime was 8 pm. 
4-5 8:30pm
6-8 10 pm
High school-good luck with that. BTW, there were nights in hs where my kids were still working on homework until 1:30 am. All of them were in at least 2 extra curricular activities and 2 had multiple honors/AP courses. 

Just like at school, home involvement should evolve, with the child becoming more independent over time.


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> JWBooth said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the slave isn't the most reliable conveyance, but after a fuckin' month I expect him to have the proceeedure of receiving a paper, transporting it home, letting me know he has it, and if necessary returning it to school.
> 
> Some complain that I'm interfering with their horde, arguing that they like to wait until "The end of the Unit" to send all the graded work home. But what I'm seeing is lost of grade entries that do not require ANY objective evaluation: "Participation" grades, and very few quizzes, tests, and things that require a student to place their pencil to a piece of paper!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good for you, damn glad to see somebody with an active interest in their kids learning.
> 
> Sadly, in many cases your/mine/our input and oversight isnt wanted.  Indeed the trend seems to be that we are to be excluded completely.  We might get involved and interfere with the satus quo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree in the main with concern. Samson child is in a different place than most high school students, one that's right for him and luckily he has the parents that will make the system work for him.
> 
> The idea of parents being on top of what their kids are doing and what the school is teaching,  . With that said, there are markers of where parents day-to-day interaction with school and assignments should be intense and then lay off. Of course, some kids need much more help than others, some are born to succeed in school.
> 
> K-2  School and parent interaction should be ongoing. Good practices would indicate at least a weekly newsletter, even daily if online postings are possible. Spelling words, pretests, tests should be on same days. Every day there should be math and reading work for home. Daily and weekly folders should contain both examples of work before and after grading. Homework should be practice only-no new material and take no longer than 15-20 minutes for average child.
> 
> 3rd  Homework time would increase to 20-30 minutes for average child. Again there should be nightly math and reading. Assignment notebooks should begin, with both parent and teacher signatures required at least until there are 3 weeks of perfect entries regarding assignments and materials home. Same spelling requirements regarding pretests, etc. Homework still should be 'practice only, not applying concepts.'
> 
> 4th  Probably the most traumatic year for kids and parents. Homework jumps to 30-45 minutes on average, sometimes an hour. Still math, reading, spelling. Add in daily math fact tests, timed on top. Science and social studies homework becomes more frequent, often entailing written responses. Vocabulary related to subject matter jargon becomes much more difficult and part of homework. Heavy emphasis on projects and individual responsibilities. Assignment notebooks should no longer be an issue, if so, the parents and teacher need to make clear to student that this is something that must be mastered.
> 
> 5th  Pretty static from 4th grade. Since the kids already have done the 4th grade, homework time might actually decrease. Problem for most-hormones are going nuts!
> 
> 6-8th Middle school years in most locales. Homework times differ greatly depending on student, different teachers, and curriculum. May vary from little or occasionally none to an hour or more. Tests in language arts, math, science tend towards objective grading. Test and assignments in reading, social studies, and science tend more so towards subjective and written work. Often involving 2-4 week projects, the student must develop skills on breaking down work into chunks. If the teacher is just saying that a project is due in 4 weeks, without breaking it into steps-GET IN THERE AND DEMAND WHAT IS EXPECTED AND WHEN. These are skills that a person needs in high school and beyond, allocating time is very difficult for most kids, they cannot do it on their own.
> 
> Most 6th graders need literally a step-by-step model, with examples.
> 7th graders need the model with anything new, using examples.
> 8th graders should be able to chunk the work on their own. They shouldn't require grading for bibliographies. They should know and avoid plagiarism. There should be time alloted though for students to one-on-one with instructor on where they have questions or need suggestions.
> 
> In all cases a rubric, which spells out each part of the project with criteria should be provided with the lesson assigned. The kid should know from day 1 what an 'A, B, C, D' project looks like. The objectives of the project should also be given on the assignment. This means: When finished, this is what the project demonstrates I have mastered.
> 
> Some 6th graders are good to go when they get the assignment, rubric, and due date. Some 8th graders aren't. The teacher should know the older kids that aren't ready and be in contact with the parents.
> 
> Having taught middle school for more than a decade, the average 6th grader needs lots of feedback from teacher, each step of the way. 7th graders are mostly on task, though they need help at staying on schedule. The 8th graders that have problems are few, usually they either hate school because of social or home problems or really having trouble keeping up. If the child is having major issues with completing assignments serious conferences are indicated. High school is going to be very difficult if things do not change.
> 
> Most public middle schools have instituted blocs for the kids-often overlapping curriculum with appropriate time alloted. Social studies or science often team up with reading/language arts. Instead of 2 periods of 50 minutes, there is a bloc of 110 minutes. Assigned project may be Native Americans with social studies giving background on a novel. The content of project graded by social studies teacher, the style graded by language arts teacher. Often the same teachers will 'remain' with the same group of kids throughout middle school-a great idea for most! However, not so good if personality problems with your child and one of the teachers.
> 
> In high school, little team teaching. Little or no repetition of teachers through 9-12th grades. In big high schools, I went to one of 4k+, the likelihood of the teacher really knowing the average student? Not so good. They are grading their work, they have little clue if it's their 'best' or 'done in the morning' work.
> 
> Truth to tell, the best thing that parents can do for their kids, if they want them to be successful:
> 
> Early years:
> 
> make sure they know where they are to work at home, until high school my kids knew that was the kitchen table, so I could monitor. From preschool, let them know where their backpack goes. Tell them where to put notes, letters, etc., as soon as they come home-this avoids the need for safety pins. By 3rd grade, make it clear that if they fail to give notes, etc., there are consequences. Follow through.
> 
> Be clear on the order to do things. For my kids it was come home and put backpack on kitchen floor. Change clothes. Eat snack. Outside for about 1/2 hour. Homework. Everything back in backpack, including anything requiring parent signatures, $$, etc. Leave book bag on hook by door-Basically you want them to trip/stumble over them in the morning-then they won't be forgotten. If time before dinner, outside. If not, finish homework after dinner. 1/2 hour tv or computer. Shower, story (when little), bed.
> 
> 1-3 grade bedtime was 8 pm.
> 4-5 8:30pm
> 6-8 10 pm
> High school-good luck with that. BTW, there were nights in hs where my kids were still working on homework until 1:30 am. All of them were in at least 2 extra curricular activities and 2 had multiple honors/AP courses.
> 
> Just like at school, home involvement should evolve, with the child becoming more independent over time.
Click to expand...


I don't disagree with any of this, and appreciate the detail and thought that went into the response.

BUT...and I don't think you'd disagree, this description is for an average school (and possibly an above average student). Most schools are now required by NCLB to produce their own report cards describing their state standing based on state tests. 

For example, the High School in question on City-data.com school rating (using weighted 2009 test average as compared to other schools in Colorado) from 0 (worst) to 100 (best) *is 58.*

There's much room for improvement ......IMHO this may be achieved with more graded work (ie., treat 10th graders like 8th graders)


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JWBooth said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good for you, damn glad to see somebody with an active interest in their kids learning.
> 
> Sadly, in many cases your/mine/our input and oversight isnt wanted.  Indeed the trend seems to be that we are to be excluded completely.  We might get involved and interfere with the satus quo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree in the main with concern. Samson child is in a different place than most high school students, one that's right for him and luckily he has the parents that will make the system work for him.
> 
> The idea of parents being on top of what their kids are doing and what the school is teaching,  . With that said, there are markers of where parents day-to-day interaction with school and assignments should be intense and then lay off. Of course, some kids need much more help than others, some are born to succeed in school.
> 
> K-2  School and parent interaction should be ongoing. Good practices would indicate at least a weekly newsletter, even daily if online postings are possible. Spelling words, pretests, tests should be on same days. Every day there should be math and reading work for home. Daily and weekly folders should contain both examples of work before and after grading. Homework should be practice only-no new material and take no longer than 15-20 minutes for average child.
> 
> 3rd  Homework time would increase to 20-30 minutes for average child. Again there should be nightly math and reading. Assignment notebooks should begin, with both parent and teacher signatures required at least until there are 3 weeks of perfect entries regarding assignments and materials home. Same spelling requirements regarding pretests, etc. Homework still should be 'practice only, not applying concepts.'
> 
> 4th  Probably the most traumatic year for kids and parents. Homework jumps to 30-45 minutes on average, sometimes an hour. Still math, reading, spelling. Add in daily math fact tests, timed on top. Science and social studies homework becomes more frequent, often entailing written responses. Vocabulary related to subject matter jargon becomes much more difficult and part of homework. Heavy emphasis on projects and individual responsibilities. Assignment notebooks should no longer be an issue, if so, the parents and teacher need to make clear to student that this is something that must be mastered.
> 
> 5th  Pretty static from 4th grade. Since the kids already have done the 4th grade, homework time might actually decrease. Problem for most-hormones are going nuts!
> 
> 6-8th Middle school years in most locales. Homework times differ greatly depending on student, different teachers, and curriculum. May vary from little or occasionally none to an hour or more. Tests in language arts, math, science tend towards objective grading. Test and assignments in reading, social studies, and science tend more so towards subjective and written work. Often involving 2-4 week projects, the student must develop skills on breaking down work into chunks. If the teacher is just saying that a project is due in 4 weeks, without breaking it into steps-GET IN THERE AND DEMAND WHAT IS EXPECTED AND WHEN. These are skills that a person needs in high school and beyond, allocating time is very difficult for most kids, they cannot do it on their own.
> 
> Most 6th graders need literally a step-by-step model, with examples.
> 7th graders need the model with anything new, using examples.
> 8th graders should be able to chunk the work on their own. They shouldn't require grading for bibliographies. They should know and avoid plagiarism. There should be time alloted though for students to one-on-one with instructor on where they have questions or need suggestions.
> 
> In all cases a rubric, which spells out each part of the project with criteria should be provided with the lesson assigned. The kid should know from day 1 what an 'A, B, C, D' project looks like. The objectives of the project should also be given on the assignment. This means: When finished, this is what the project demonstrates I have mastered.
> 
> Some 6th graders are good to go when they get the assignment, rubric, and due date. Some 8th graders aren't. The teacher should know the older kids that aren't ready and be in contact with the parents.
> 
> Having taught middle school for more than a decade, the average 6th grader needs lots of feedback from teacher, each step of the way. 7th graders are mostly on task, though they need help at staying on schedule. The 8th graders that have problems are few, usually they either hate school because of social or home problems or really having trouble keeping up. If the child is having major issues with completing assignments serious conferences are indicated. High school is going to be very difficult if things do not change.
> 
> Most public middle schools have instituted blocs for the kids-often overlapping curriculum with appropriate time alloted. Social studies or science often team up with reading/language arts. Instead of 2 periods of 50 minutes, there is a bloc of 110 minutes. Assigned project may be Native Americans with social studies giving background on a novel. The content of project graded by social studies teacher, the style graded by language arts teacher. Often the same teachers will 'remain' with the same group of kids throughout middle school-a great idea for most! However, not so good if personality problems with your child and one of the teachers.
> 
> In high school, little team teaching. Little or no repetition of teachers through 9-12th grades. In big high schools, I went to one of 4k+, the likelihood of the teacher really knowing the average student? Not so good. They are grading their work, they have little clue if it's their 'best' or 'done in the morning' work.
> 
> Truth to tell, the best thing that parents can do for their kids, if they want them to be successful:
> 
> Early years:
> 
> make sure they know where they are to work at home, until high school my kids knew that was the kitchen table, so I could monitor. From preschool, let them know where their backpack goes. Tell them where to put notes, letters, etc., as soon as they come home-this avoids the need for safety pins. By 3rd grade, make it clear that if they fail to give notes, etc., there are consequences. Follow through.
> 
> Be clear on the order to do things. For my kids it was come home and put backpack on kitchen floor. Change clothes. Eat snack. Outside for about 1/2 hour. Homework. Everything back in backpack, including anything requiring parent signatures, $$, etc. Leave book bag on hook by door-Basically you want them to trip/stumble over them in the morning-then they won't be forgotten. If time before dinner, outside. If not, finish homework after dinner. 1/2 hour tv or computer. Shower, story (when little), bed.
> 
> 1-3 grade bedtime was 8 pm.
> 4-5 8:30pm
> 6-8 10 pm
> High school-good luck with that. BTW, there were nights in hs where my kids were still working on homework until 1:30 am. All of them were in at least 2 extra curricular activities and 2 had multiple honors/AP courses.
> 
> Just like at school, home involvement should evolve, with the child becoming more independent over time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't disagree with any of this, and appreciate the detail and thought that went into the response.
> 
> BUT...and I don't think you'd disagree, this description is for an average school (and possibly an above average student). Most schools are now required by NCLB to produce their own report cards describing their state standing based on state tests.
> 
> For example, the High School in question on City-data.com school rating (using weighted 2009 test average as compared to other schools in Colorado) from 0 (worst) to 100 (best) *is 58.*
> 
> There's much room for improvement ......IMHO this may be achieved with more graded work (ie., treat 10th graders like 8th graders)
Click to expand...


I would not disagree with a school that performs as you describe, though I don't think that even under the criteria you are putting forth it's in the best interests of the kids. In this case seems the problem would be the teachers and the rules they are operating under. Change those, not the expectations of what is expected of the students.

Mandate rubrics and standards based lessons. Mandate the use and assessment of planners in lower grades. Call the parents in early, not in high school. As educators and parents we should be preparing our children for the future, not for a moment in time.


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> I would not disagree with a school that performs as you describe, though I don't think that even under the criteria you are putting forth it's in the best interests of the kids. In this case seems the problem would be the teachers and the rules they are operating under. Change those, not the expectations of what is expected of the students.
> 
> Mandate rubrics and standards based lessons. Mandate the use and assessment of planners in lower grades. Call the parents in early, not in high school. As educators and parents we should be preparing our children for the future, not for a moment in time.



I'm not just talking about my own case, which you know is somewhat unique, but in EACH case. By all means teachers in the public school should call parents, regardless of whatever grade they are in. Why not, if only to introduce themselves, and build a little repoire? Maybe if teachers were less reluctant to contact parents, the public school would have a better public image?

My point is there is no absolute age at which teachers should stop regularly and personally contact parents. If I was a principal a teacher would be FORBIDDEN to fail a student unless they could offer documented evidence that the parents had been phoned, and a conference had been scheduled.

Teachers would probably hate me.


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would not disagree with a school that performs as you describe, though I don't think that even under the criteria you are putting forth it's in the best interests of the kids. In this case seems the problem would be the teachers and the rules they are operating under. Change those, not the expectations of what is expected of the students.
> 
> Mandate rubrics and standards based lessons. Mandate the use and assessment of planners in lower grades. Call the parents in early, not in high school. As educators and parents we should be preparing our children for the future, not for a moment in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not just talking about my own case, which you know is somewhat unique, but in EACH case. By all means teachers in the public school should call parents, regardless of whatever grade they are in. Why not, if only to introduce themselves, and build a little repoire? Maybe if teachers were less reluctant to contact parents, the public school would have a better public image?
> 
> My point is there is no absolute age at which teachers should stop regularly and personally contact parents. If I was a principal a teacher would be FORBIDDEN to fail a student unless they could offer documented evidence that the parents had been phoned, and a conference had been scheduled.
> 
> Teachers would probably hate me.
Click to expand...


I was too hasty and totalitarian with my response. I agree that parents and high school parents should have communication. I guess where we disagree is on the amount of parental involvement in secondary school, (note not JUST hs). I believe, with my own kids well out of college, that it's necessary for the student to own their education-for better or worse-by 8th grade. Now that doesn't mean that things can't be turned around-when the student wants, parents willing to help-but for most, the die is cast. 

As for failing a student, whatever the grade, I agree with your criteria. In fact, both public and private schools I've dealt with, forbid a failing grade if parents are not notified mid-term.


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would not disagree with a school that performs as you describe, though I don't think that even under the criteria you are putting forth it's in the best interests of the kids. In this case seems the problem would be the teachers and the rules they are operating under. Change those, not the expectations of what is expected of the students.
> 
> Mandate rubrics and standards based lessons. Mandate the use and assessment of planners in lower grades. Call the parents in early, not in high school. As educators and parents we should be preparing our children for the future, not for a moment in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not just talking about my own case, which you know is somewhat unique, but in EACH case. By all means teachers in the public school should call parents, regardless of whatever grade they are in. Why not, if only to introduce themselves, and build a little repoire? Maybe if teachers were less reluctant to contact parents, the public school would have a better public image?
> 
> My point is there is no absolute age at which teachers should stop regularly and personally contact parents. If I was a principal a teacher would be FORBIDDEN to fail a student unless they could offer documented evidence that the parents had been phoned, and a conference had been scheduled.
> 
> Teachers would probably hate me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was too hasty and totalitarian with my response. I agree that parents and high school parents should have communication. I guess where we disagree is on the amount of parental involvement in secondary school, (note not JUST hs). I believe, with my own kids well out of college, that it's necessary for the student to own their education-for better or worse-by 8th grade. Now that doesn't mean that things can't be turned around-when the student wants, parents willing to help-but for most, the die is cast.
> 
> As for failing a student, whatever the grade, I agree with your criteria. In fact, both public and private schools I've dealt with, forbid a failing grade if parents are not notified mid-term.
Click to expand...



It occurs to me that there's another point of irony: not only do schools complain that parents aren't involved enough in their kids' behavioural/academic performance, but also as the kids get older (and naturally, I agree, parents have less desire, and need to be involved) the school offers more activities for which the parents are asked to fund (booster clubs, proms, yearbooks, club activities, "class rings." etc).


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not just talking about my own case, which you know is somewhat unique, but in EACH case. By all means teachers in the public school should call parents, regardless of whatever grade they are in. Why not, if only to introduce themselves, and build a little repoire? Maybe if teachers were less reluctant to contact parents, the public school would have a better public image?
> 
> My point is there is no absolute age at which teachers should stop regularly and personally contact parents. If I was a principal a teacher would be FORBIDDEN to fail a student unless they could offer documented evidence that the parents had been phoned, and a conference had been scheduled.
> 
> Teachers would probably hate me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too hasty and totalitarian with my response. I agree that parents and high school parents should have communication. I guess where we disagree is on the amount of parental involvement in secondary school, (note not JUST hs). I believe, with my own kids well out of college, that it's necessary for the student to own their education-for better or worse-by 8th grade. Now that doesn't mean that things can't be turned around-when the student wants, parents willing to help-but for most, the die is cast.
> 
> As for failing a student, whatever the grade, I agree with your criteria. In fact, both public and private schools I've dealt with, forbid a failing grade if parents are not notified mid-term.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It occurs to me that there's another point of irony: not only do schools complain that parents aren't involved enough in their kids' behavioural/academic performance, but also as the kids get older (and naturally, I agree, parents have less desire, and need to be involved) the school offers more activities for which the parents are asked to fund (booster clubs, proms, yearbooks, club activities, "class rings." etc).
Click to expand...


Ok, now I'm LOL! I'm assuming that you too were secondary teacher by your creds? Can we count the ways that parents ignored documented attempted interventions in the lower grades? 

There is no greater horror than having a 6th grade student that has problems reading 3rd grade level texts. Well actually, they don't exist on level. 

My worst nightmare was a 7th grade kid, that had been referred since 2nd grade, taking the Constitution tests for fed and state. 3 questions I gave her, 2 days before. No correct answers. Truly I think the parent prepped her, she just couldn't get it. 

That is an example of the problem with NCLB.


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was too hasty and totalitarian with my response. I agree that parents and high school parents should have communication. I guess where we disagree is on the amount of parental involvement in secondary school, (note not JUST hs). I believe, with my own kids well out of college, that it's necessary for the student to own their education-for better or worse-by 8th grade. Now that doesn't mean that things can't be turned around-when the student wants, parents willing to help-but for most, the die is cast.
> 
> As for failing a student, whatever the grade, I agree with your criteria. In fact, both public and private schools I've dealt with, forbid a failing grade if parents are not notified mid-term.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurs to me that there's another point of irony: not only do schools complain that parents aren't involved enough in their kids' behavioural/academic performance, but also as the kids get older (and naturally, I agree, parents have less desire, and need to be involved) the school offers more activities for which the parents are asked to fund (booster clubs, proms, yearbooks, club activities, "class rings." etc).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, now I'm LOL! I'm assuming that you too were secondary teacher by your creds? Can we count the ways that parents ignored documented attempted interventions in the lower grades?
> 
> There is no greater horror than having a 6th grade student that has problems reading 3rd grade level texts. Well actually, they don't exist on level.
> 
> My worst nightmare was a 7th grade kid, that had been referred since 2nd grade, taking the Constitution tests for fed and state. 3 questions I gave her, 2 days before. No correct answers. Truly I think the parent prepped her, she just couldn't get it.
> 
> That is an example of the problem with NCLB.
Click to expand...


Well, ONE problem with NCLB....the statute has its flaws, but I think its better than nothing, and the law can be changed. Regardless, it wasn't the Feds that failed if the parents were allowed to ignore (undocumented) a learning disability for 5 years


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> It occurs to me that there's another point of irony: not only do schools complain that parents aren't involved enough in their kids' behavioural/academic performance, but also as the kids get older (and naturally, I agree, parents have less desire, and need to be involved) the school offers more activities for which the parents are asked to fund (booster clubs, proms, yearbooks, club activities, "class rings." etc).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, now I'm LOL! I'm assuming that you too were secondary teacher by your creds? Can we count the ways that parents ignored documented attempted interventions in the lower grades?
> 
> There is no greater horror than having a 6th grade student that has problems reading 3rd grade level texts. Well actually, they don't exist on level.
> 
> My worst nightmare was a 7th grade kid, that had been referred since 2nd grade, taking the Constitution tests for fed and state. 3 questions I gave her, 2 days before. No correct answers. Truly I think the parent prepped her, she just couldn't get it.
> 
> That is an example of the problem with NCLB.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, ONE problem with NCLB....the statute has its flaws, but I think its better than nothing, and the law can be changed. Regardless, it wasn't the Feds that failed if the parents were allowed to ignore (undocumented) a learning disability for 5 years
Click to expand...


And this is the problem. I was in private school, parents had repeatedly been told that child was special education. They refused testing. Guess what? Private schools lack the ability to force testing. The did test, in 7th grade, IQ came in at 71. 

Now the question is, what would have been in the best interests of child? I would say, life skills. There was no point in trying to make this kid regurgitate topics like natural rights.


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, now I'm LOL! I'm assuming that you too were secondary teacher by your creds? Can we count the ways that parents ignored documented attempted interventions in the lower grades?
> 
> There is no greater horror than having a 6th grade student that has problems reading 3rd grade level texts. Well actually, they don't exist on level.
> 
> My worst nightmare was a 7th grade kid, that had been referred since 2nd grade, taking the Constitution tests for fed and state. 3 questions I gave her, 2 days before. No correct answers. Truly I think the parent prepped her, she just couldn't get it.
> 
> That is an example of the problem with NCLB.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, ONE problem with NCLB....the statute has its flaws, but I think its better than nothing, and the law can be changed. Regardless, it wasn't the Feds that failed if the parents were allowed to ignore (undocumented) a learning disability for 5 years
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And this is the problem. I was in private school, parents had repeatedly been told that child was special education. They refused testing. Guess what? Private schools lack the ability to force testing. The did test, in 7th grade, IQ came in at 71.
> 
> Now the question is, what would have been in the best interests of child? I would say, life skills. There was no point in trying to make this kid regurgitate topics like natural rights.
Click to expand...


Well, its not NCLB's fault that the parents ignored the school (private or public). I doubt they really needed a diagnostic, but simply chose to believe the kid would "grow out of it" until she was 13, and then the behavioural divergence from the norm became too obvious to ignore.


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, ONE problem with NCLB....the statute has its flaws, but I think its better than nothing, and the law can be changed. Regardless, it wasn't the Feds that failed if the parents were allowed to ignore (undocumented) a learning disability for 5 years
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is the problem. I was in private school, parents had repeatedly been told that child was special education. They refused testing. Guess what? Private schools lack the ability to force testing. The did test, in 7th grade, IQ came in at 71.
> 
> Now the question is, what would have been in the best interests of child? I would say, life skills. There was no point in trying to make this kid regurgitate topics like natural rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, its not NCLB's fault that the parents ignored the school (private or public). I doubt they really needed a diagnostic, but simply chose to believe the kid would "grow out of it" until she was 13, and then the behavioural divergence from the norm became too obvious to ignore.
Click to expand...


I hate feeling like we're arguing, not normal. However in this case, which is the norm for parents refusing to heed interventions, the writing was on the wall way before 7th grade. Parents didn't want their daughter labeled. So she was not, though would certainly have been in public school, which is why she was moved to private in 2nd grade. 

I blame the principal and the parents. The child was screwed. She would have been better served in public schools.


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> And this is the problem. I was in private school, parents had repeatedly been told that child was special education. They refused testing. Guess what? Private schools lack the ability to force testing. The did test, in 7th grade, IQ came in at 71.
> 
> Now the question is, what would have been in the best interests of child? I would say, life skills. There was no point in trying to make this kid regurgitate topics like natural rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, its not NCLB's fault that the parents ignored the school (private or public). I doubt they really needed a diagnostic, but simply chose to believe the kid would "grow out of it" until she was 13, and then the behavioural divergence from the norm became too obvious to ignore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I hate feeling like we're arguing, not normal. However in this case, which is the norm for parents refusing to heed interventions, the writing was on the wall way before 7th grade. Parents didn't want their daughter labeled. So she was not, though would certainly have been in public school, which is why she was moved to private in 2nd grade.
> 
> I blame the principal and the parents. The child was screwed. She would have been better served in public schools.
Click to expand...


OK I agree.


----------



## Samson

Saw the younger slave's principal last Friday to "Bridge any communication gaps between myself and the teachers."

My first response was "What 'Gaps'?"

He replied that, in the interest of remaining objective, he had not read any of my e-mails.



Taking the bait, rather than openly expressing my already high level of incredulousness, I reviewed my 5 point policy with him.

Amazingly, he noted that some projects, curriculum, and "units," did not lend themselves to weekly evaluation, and the _one_-grade-per-week-per-class expectation.

I explained that ONE graded paper-per week was the _MINIMUM_ I would expect any professional educator to produce every week in order to evaluate whether or not whatever they'd taught during the past 5 days had, or had not, been learned. Of course, I understood there would necessarily be exceptions from time to time.

He agreed, but began to spout statistical evidence that supported the success of students regardless of weekly evaluation.

I interruped to state that this was irrelevant to me: What I needed to see would be WEEKLY EVIDENCE. Furthermore, what would be in _HIS INTEREST_ would be the most frequent display of teacher interaction with students illustrated by graded papers.

Parents, I lectured, appreciated _knowing_ that their kids were learning something.

After a puzzled silence, he could only agree.


I swear to god, why I continue to be amazed that government workers are so incredibly incompetent, I don't know.


----------



## JWBooth

Samson said:


> I swear to god, why I continue to be amazed that government workers are so incredibly incompetent, I don't know.



Some would hand over our medical care to just such as this.

Stick with it.  Your kid(s) are more important than whatever educational trend of the moment the school is involved in.


----------



## Samson

JWBooth said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I swear to god, why I continue to be amazed that government workers are so incredibly incompetent, I don't know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some would hand over our medical care to just such as this.
> 
> Stick with it.  Your kid(s) are more important than whatever educational trend of the moment the school is involved in.
Click to expand...


Yes, his is why I used the term "government workers" instead of "public school teachers and administrators."

For some reason, many people forget that to look at the most efficient government program (relying most on local taxation, and local administration) all they need to do is look at their local school.

If government workers in public school cannot grasp the simple concept that parents appreciate frequent and detailed examples of student progress, then how might we expect Washington Bureaucrats to expect to understand anything about the wishes of Americans?


----------



## Samson

Began when I arrived and asked if I'd missed signing the Meeting Attendance Sheet.

The principal chuckled, thinking I was kidding.....

So I pulled out my own prepared attendance sheet, including a description of my complaint, and the two questions I needed to ask.

I signed, then began its rotation. Principal said...."um, I thought we'd just have an informal chat.....?"

I replied, "That was great, but that I needed to record the attendees for MY RECORDS."

Anyway, I suggest that anyone visiting with public officials begin their meeting this way. It sets a no BS tone that is unmistakable.

Does anyone care to hear how the rest of the meeting went?


----------



## Ravi

No, it's obvious from your posts that you care less about your child's ability than you care about making some stupid point about the public school system.


----------



## Samson

Does anyone _not on my ignore list_ want to hear how the rest of the meeting went?


----------



## Cecilie1200

Samson said:


> Began when I arrived and asked if I'd missed signing the Meeting Attendance Sheet.
> 
> The principal chuckled, thinking I was kidding.....
> 
> So I pulled out my own prepared attendance sheet, including a description of my complaint, and the two questions I needed to ask.
> 
> I signed, then began its rotation. Principal said...."um, I thought we'd just have an informal chat.....?"
> 
> I replied, "That was great, but that I needed to record the attendees for MY RECORDS."
> 
> Anyway, I suggest that anyone visiting with public officials begin their meeting this way. It sets a no BS tone that is unmistakable.
> 
> Does anyone care to hear how the rest of the meeting went?



I am absolutely on the edge of my chair, with bated breath.  Please go on.  (No sarcasm, I really want to know.)


----------



## Samson

Cecilie1200 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Began when I arrived and asked if I'd missed signing the Meeting Attendance Sheet.
> 
> The principal chuckled, thinking I was kidding.....
> 
> So I pulled out my own prepared attendance sheet, including a description of my complaint, and the two questions I needed to ask.
> 
> I signed, then began its rotation. Principal said...."um, I thought we'd just have an informal chat.....?"
> 
> I replied, "That was great, but that I needed to record the attendees for MY RECORDS."
> 
> Anyway, I suggest that anyone visiting with public officials begin their meeting this way. It sets a no BS tone that is unmistakable.
> 
> Does anyone care to hear how the rest of the meeting went?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am absolutely on the edge of my chair, with bated breath.  Please go on.  (No sarcasm, I really want to know.)
Click to expand...


Well, I wanted to make sure this wasn't an echo chamber.

I was armed with all the graded papers I'd received, so as the attendance sheet was passed around, I let the teachers pick out their graded papers, then asked my first question:

Is what papers I have all the papers I have asked to see? Basically I simply want to confirm that the OS hasn't been grossly negligent in bringing home the stuff.

Indeed, all said, "YES," except the English Teacher. She claimed to have kept papers, despite my repeated requests to see them, and, she didn't bring them to the meeting.

Ok, NEXT QUESTION:

Is there anyone here who doesn't understand my complaint: That I'm not seeing graded papers ONE/WEEK?

Ya wanna know what the PRINCIPAL SAID???


----------



## Cecilie1200

Samson said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Began when I arrived and asked if I'd missed signing the Meeting Attendance Sheet.
> 
> The principal chuckled, thinking I was kidding.....
> 
> So I pulled out my own prepared attendance sheet, including a description of my complaint, and the two questions I needed to ask.
> 
> I signed, then began its rotation. Principal said...."um, I thought we'd just have an informal chat.....?"
> 
> I replied, "That was great, but that I needed to record the attendees for MY RECORDS."
> 
> Anyway, I suggest that anyone visiting with public officials begin their meeting this way. It sets a no BS tone that is unmistakable.
> 
> Does anyone care to hear how the rest of the meeting went?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am absolutely on the edge of my chair, with bated breath.  Please go on.  (No sarcasm, I really want to know.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I wanted to make sure this wasn't an echo chamber.
> 
> I was armed with all the graded papers I'd received, so as the attendance sheet was passed around, I let the teachers pick out their graded papers, then asked my first question:
> 
> Is what papers I have all the papers I have asked to see? Basically I simply want to confirm that the OS hasn't been grossly negligent in bringing home the stuff.
> 
> Indeed, all said, "YES," except the English Teacher. She claimed to have kept papers, despite my repeated requests to see them, and, she didn't bring them to the meeting.
> 
> Ok, NEXT QUESTION:
> 
> Is there anyone here who doesn't understand my complaint: That I'm not seeing graded papers ONE/WEEK?
> 
> Ya wanna know what the PRINCIPAL SAID???
Click to expand...


I am not only fascinated, I'm hearing echoes of a meeting my own mother once had with my principal.  I'm extremely curious to find out if this one will make the same mistake that long-ago one did.


----------



## blu

AllieBaba said:


> But don't feel bad. When my boys were that age, we went through a nice long period where every time my oldest would do something out of line he had to write a hundred sentences for me (I dictated the sentence) which explained why that wasn't a good thing to do, and how he would never do it again.



haha wow, my stepson is only 8 but we also make him write sentences, in script, what he hates, but we make him write less (100 would take him all day) and we make him come up with the sentences on his own about why what he did was wrong, who it affected, how it could affects peoples views on him, etc


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> Ya wanna know what the PRINCIPAL SAID???



Let me guess:

He laughed and rolled around in his seat while he grabbed at his groin.

He said "Sorry, but it tickles."

You said "What tickles?"

He said "The octopus that I have attached to my scrotum.  You've got to try it!"

You said "I'm packin' cephalopod as we speak, bro!"

He said "AWWW HELL YEAH, MUTHAFUKKA!"

And then the two of you left together to grab a beer and review each other's octoporn collections.


Am I close?


----------



## Foxfyre

I would be interested.

Being active in PTA etc. and that organization having a good rapport with the teachers and administration, my kids' school didn't have the problems that Samson is explaining.  Also the school held regular parent/teacher conferences and parents who were disinterested in those were called by the school to find out why.  Drop out rate, almost nil.  Graduation rate high 90 percentile.

But since then I have seen applications from today's graduates who indicated only marginal literacy, if that, and have talked with kids who have almost zero basics of American or world history, who couldn't write a properly spelled, coherent paragraph if their lives depended on it, who have minimal math and science and poor skills in both--what do I need that for?  I'm not going to college--and who probably spent more time out of class than in it throughout highschool and were still graduated.

New Mexico graduation rate 69% which to me is criminal.  In 2009, New Jersey led the USA in graduation rate with 82.1% of its highschoolers graduating within the scheduled time frame.    I think that is also criminal this day and age.

When I was in school I got ALL my test papers returned with grades marked in big red letters.  So did my kids.

I think Samson is more than reasonable expecting the same from his children's school.

And yeah, how did the meeting go?


----------



## blu

Luissa said:


> I just don't get why they are not giving back graded work right away. We always got our work back right away.
> 
> Last year when we had to write an essay in my Chinese history class, my teacher had them all back within in two to four days, and these were not short essays. And he had other classes. I don't remember waiting that long for assignments to come back when I was high school, maybe a week. If we corrected them in class, it was usually the next day, and that was only so they could input our grades.



In college teachers were scared to come to class if they didn't have tests graded by the next meeting. Papers usually were expected in a week.


----------



## Samson

Cecilie1200 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am absolutely on the edge of my chair, with bated breath.  Please go on.  (No sarcasm, I really want to know.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I wanted to make sure this wasn't an echo chamber.
> 
> I was armed with all the graded papers I'd received, so as the attendance sheet was passed around, I let the teachers pick out their graded papers, then asked my first question:
> 
> Is what papers I have all the papers I have asked to see? Basically I simply want to confirm that the OS hasn't been grossly negligent in bringing home the stuff.
> 
> Indeed, all said, "YES," except the English Teacher. She claimed to have kept papers, despite my repeated requests to see them, and, she didn't bring them to the meeting.
> 
> Ok, NEXT QUESTION:
> 
> Is there anyone here who doesn't understand my complaint: That I'm not seeing graded papers ONE/WEEK?
> 
> Ya wanna know what the PRINCIPAL SAID???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not only fascinated, I'm hearing echoes of a meeting my own mother once had with my principal.  I'm extremely curious to find out if this one will make the same mistake that long-ago one did.
Click to expand...


First: he wanted to know what a "graded paper" was?

This immediately set me off, so I explained to a HS Principal what was a graded paper.

Second: he didn't like my "tone."

I told him I didn't like his tone either.

Third he began with the list of excuses: classes meeting only two or three days per week, projects not being done for several weeks, the curriculum....yada, yada, yada.....I interrupted to say none of these excuses held any water, but he said, "Please don't interrupt, let me finish."

So I let him babble on, then said I didn't care about whether they met ONE, TWO, THREE, Four, or FIVE Days a week, I wanted to see some measure of learning on a weekly basis in each subject....

Then he interrupted ME!

I told him that he would please allow ME to finish, and continued to explain that it was embarrassing for me to review what I considered "Teaching 101" with him, but asked, "You do realize that parents are interested in what their kids are doing in school, right?"

He didn't answer, just stared at me.


----------



## blu

Cecilie1200 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What really amuses me about this is that teachers and other public school affiliates love to blame the declining quality of public education on a lack of parental involvement.
Click to expand...


Samson IS QUITE UNINVOLVED! He won't even review his kid's tests and quizzes!


----------



## editec

Samson said:


> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???


 
Yes, I think you are.

When I taught full time I had 150 students and gave 25 academic lectures or classes a week.  Do you have any idea how much prep work that demanded of me?

I didn't have time to send parents reports every week.

I really didn't have enough time to give the students the individual attention they often needed.


----------



## blu

Ravi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???
> 
> 
> 
> It's the teachers fault your 10th grader is a fuck up?
> 
> Interesting.
Click to expand...




my stepson gets straight As but he knows that every tuesday (grade day) he better have brought his folder home with everything in it. you are  a jackass if you aren't reviewing what your kids do in school


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I wanted to make sure this wasn't an echo chamber.
> 
> I was armed with all the graded papers I'd received, so as the attendance sheet was passed around, I let the teachers pick out their graded papers, then asked my first question:
> 
> Is what papers I have all the papers I have asked to see? Basically I simply want to confirm that the OS hasn't been grossly negligent in bringing home the stuff.
> 
> Indeed, all said, "YES," except the English Teacher. She claimed to have kept papers, despite my repeated requests to see them, and, she didn't bring them to the meeting.
> 
> Ok, NEXT QUESTION:
> 
> Is there anyone here who doesn't understand my complaint: That I'm not seeing graded papers ONE/WEEK?
> 
> Ya wanna know what the PRINCIPAL SAID???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not only fascinated, I'm hearing echoes of a meeting my own mother once had with my principal.  I'm extremely curious to find out if this one will make the same mistake that long-ago one did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First: he wanted to know what a "graded paper" was?
> 
> This immediately set me off, so I explained to a HS Principal what was a graded paper.
> 
> Second: he didn't like my "tone."
> 
> I told him I didn't like his tone either.
> 
> Third he began with the list of excuses: classes meeting only two or three days per week, projects not being done for several weeks, the curriculum....yada, yada, yada.....I interrupted to say none of these excuses held any water, but he said, "Please don't interrupt, let me finish."
> 
> So I let him babble on, then said I didn't care about whether they met ONE, TWO, THREE, Four, or FIVE Days a week, I wanted to see some measure of learning on a weekly basis in each subject....
> 
> Then he interrupted ME!
> 
> I told him that he would please allow ME to finish, and continued to explain that it was embarrassing for me to review what I considered "Teaching 101" with him, but asked, "You do realize that parents are interested in what their kids are doing in school, right?"
> 
> He didn't answer, just stared at me.
Click to expand...


Then you guys shared your octopus fetishes?


----------



## blu

Cecilie1200 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's why meeting with principal, student, teacher and yourself is probably a good idea. Classes are probably 45-50 minutes. Depending on the subject and project to be assessed, the class time might well be used to teach how to address aspects of the assignment. Then again, that should be clear by syllabus.
> 
> Lower grades tend to have 'daily work' as much of the work is actually teaching the process of mastering work. By 7th or 8th grades, the student should know how he needs to acquire mastery of tasks. (For instance, learning how to memorize vocab. Learning math facts-kids learn different ways of getting to the same end.)
> 
> Needed vocabulary is listed in each text at the beginning or end of each lesson. By high school it's _*assumed the student recognizes such*_. The student is expected to be using the skills learned,  not for grade, but because they are intricate to mastery.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I agree with this, I see no need to "assume the student recognizes such" for vocabulary, or anything else. I'm not asking for a daily assessment. I simply want a weekly quiz. 5 questions?
> 
> Is that too much to freakin' ask? If so, why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To my way of thinking, if your kid already knows all the relevant vocabulary, then that means they're just reviewing things he's already learned instead of teaching him anything new.  It's not like biology vocabulary - for example - is commonly used in everyday language.  It's technical jargon, for crying out loud, and if the subject matter's new, then it is by God going to have new vocabulary he's never heard or used before.
Click to expand...


10th grade bio vocab isn't 'technical jargon', it is generally referred to as 'common knowledge'


----------



## Cecilie1200

editec said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I think you are.
> 
> When I taught full time I had 150 students and gave 25 academic lectures or classes a week.  Do you have any idea how much prep work that demanded of me?
> 
> I didn't have time to send parents reports every week.
> 
> I really didn't have enough time to give the students the individual attention they often needed.
Click to expand...


So then you don't spend a lot of time whining about how the problems of the public school system and its inmates (the students) can all be laid at the feet of uninvolved, lackadaisical parents?  Since it sounds to me like you resent the hell out of parents expecting to have any involvement or input into their children's education.

I'm curious, though.  Under your "shut the fuck up and let me do things the way I want" system, what happened when a student was having serious problems?


----------



## Samson

editec said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I think you are.
> 
> When I taught full time I had 150 students and gave 25 academic lectures or classes a week.  Do you have any idea how much prep work that demanded of me?
> 
> I didn't have time to send parents reports every week.
> 
> I really didn't have enough time to give the students the individual attention they often needed.
Click to expand...


I appreciate the POV.

Yes, I know exactly how much prep work that demanded, I've done it too.

However, if you don't measure whether or not your prep/lectures are effective then its a waste of time, and if parents want it, then why wouldn't you make it a priority?


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> Then you guys shared your octopus fetishes?



Do you really have to ask?


----------



## Ravi

Samson, did they frisk you before allowing you on to school grounds? Reason I ask is that you come across as pretty hostile and for the safety of all concerned it would have been an excellent idea.


----------



## blu

Samson said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I wanted to make sure this wasn't an echo chamber.
> 
> I was armed with all the graded papers I'd received, so as the attendance sheet was passed around, I let the teachers pick out their graded papers, then asked my first question:
> 
> Is what papers I have all the papers I have asked to see? Basically I simply want to confirm that the OS hasn't been grossly negligent in bringing home the stuff.
> 
> Indeed, all said, "YES," except the English Teacher. She claimed to have kept papers, despite my repeated requests to see them, and, she didn't bring them to the meeting.
> 
> Ok, NEXT QUESTION:
> 
> Is there anyone here who doesn't understand my complaint: That I'm not seeing graded papers ONE/WEEK?
> 
> Ya wanna know what the PRINCIPAL SAID???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not only fascinated, I'm hearing echoes of a meeting my own mother once had with my principal.  I'm extremely curious to find out if this one will make the same mistake that long-ago one did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First: he wanted to know what a "graded paper" was?
> 
> This immediately set me off, so I explained to a HS Principal what was a graded paper.
> 
> Second: he didn't like my "tone."
> 
> I told him I didn't like his tone either.
> 
> Third he began with the list of excuses: classes meeting only two or three days per week, projects not being done for several weeks, the curriculum....yada, yada, yada.....I interrupted to say none of these excuses held any water, but he said, "Please don't interrupt, let me finish."
> 
> So I let him babble on, then said I didn't care about whether they met ONE, TWO, THREE, Four, or FIVE Days a week, I wanted to see some measure of learning on a weekly basis in each subject....
> 
> Then he interrupted ME!
> 
> I told him that he would please allow ME to finish, and continued to explain that it was embarrassing for me to review what I considered "Teaching 101" with him, but asked, "You do realize that parents are interested in what their kids are doing in school, right?"
> 
> He didn't answer, just stared at me.
Click to expand...


is this the end? I can't imagine you walked out at this point


----------



## lizzie

Samson said:


> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???


 
No, you're not being unreasonable at all. It's been quite some time since I had school-age children, and even then, it was akin to pulling teeth just to get notified if there was a problem with your child. Several times, I had to go to the school to address a problem that I had no idea was happening until it became a major issue.


----------



## syrenn

So the next step is the the school superintendent. Lodge formal complaints about the principal and teachers, on paper that are sent certified mail. Keep records of all conversations now Samson, and dont lose your temper. 

I am so sorry that this has gone so badly. Obviously you are not going to get any help for either the teachers or the principal. I cant believe he asked you what graded paper is! That is an inexcusable statement. I feel that the bottom line here is that they are not going to do what you are requesting.



If you can afford private school Samson you may want to consider it as an option.


----------



## FireGod

asterism said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize that this would not be an issue if they were in private school don't you?
> 
> I tell ya, the principal will get fed up eventually and turn it all over to the teacher in the end. This is going to be a squeaky wheel deal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm astonished its an issue in a public school!
> 
> I really expected that IF the teachers whined about MY POLICY, then the admin would tell the teacher to grow a pair, and get a fucking graded paper out ONCE A GODDAMN WEEK!!
> 
> I'm wondering if there's something I'm not aware of that has made this principal such a weinie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YOUR policy doesn't matter.  THIER policy rules the roost.
> 
> Don't discount the fact that the teachers actually want to do the right thing but the administration has so much bureaucratic bullshit in the way.  I've never seen a good Principal get in the way of involved parents getting things done, but I've seen plenty of bad ones do it.
> 
> That reminds me, calling Child Protective Services is an option for these hacks.  It's an intimidation factor used quite a bit.
Click to expand...


You can call CPS on the school?

Never thought of that.

BTW good thread, thanks


----------



## Foxfyre

editec said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I think you are.
> 
> When I taught full time I had 150 students and gave 25 academic lectures or classes a week.  Do you have any idea how much prep work that demanded of me?
> 
> I didn't have time to send parents reports every week.
> 
> I really didn't have enough time to give the students the individual attention they often needed.
Click to expand...


Well that is unfortunate.  But having received an excellent education through highschool myself, all the classes were 30 or more kids, and there were six periods every day and none of them were study hall.  Every teacher taught at least five periods.  And quizzes and tests and occasional assigned papers were a regular part of it and they were graded and returned to us usually the next door or at most a few days.  Parent/teacher conferences were regularly scheduled two or three times a year and teachers did have time for kids who had questions after class.

So how did my teachers manage?  Or my kids' teachers?

Now admittedly there was a strictly enforced dress code, conduct expectations, etc. and any kid who didn't accommodate those was bounced out immediately.  And the graduation rate was still in the high 90 percentile.

So it can be done.  But it does require a different way of thinking than how school these days is accomplished.


----------



## Cecilie1200

blu said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> While I agree with this, I see no need to "assume the student recognizes such" for vocabulary, or anything else. I'm not asking for a daily assessment. I simply want a weekly quiz. 5 questions?
> 
> Is that too much to freakin' ask? If so, why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To my way of thinking, if your kid already knows all the relevant vocabulary, then that means they're just reviewing things he's already learned instead of teaching him anything new.  It's not like biology vocabulary - for example - is commonly used in everyday language.  It's technical jargon, for crying out loud, and if the subject matter's new, then it is by God going to have new vocabulary he's never heard or used before.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 10th grade bio vocab isn't 'technical jargon', it is generally referred to as 'common knowledge'
Click to expand...


If it was "common knowledge", they wouldn't have to teach a class on it in high school.

Some examples of technical jargon used in 10th grade biology class that one doesn't generally learn in everyday conversation:

Lysosome
Endoplasmic reticulum
Autotroph
Punnett Square
Prokaryotes
Trophic Level

Would you really like to tell us that you knew the meanings of all of these words when you went into sophomore biology class, and didn't need to be taught what they were?  That you habitually discussed these things on a regular basis?  I sincerely doubt you would know the definitions NOW without looking them up.  Most people who don't work in a related field wouldn't.


----------



## Foxfyre

Samson said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I wanted to make sure this wasn't an echo chamber.
> 
> I was armed with all the graded papers I'd received, so as the attendance sheet was passed around, I let the teachers pick out their graded papers, then asked my first question:
> 
> Is what papers I have all the papers I have asked to see? Basically I simply want to confirm that the OS hasn't been grossly negligent in bringing home the stuff.
> 
> Indeed, all said, "YES," except the English Teacher. She claimed to have kept papers, despite my repeated requests to see them, and, she didn't bring them to the meeting.
> 
> Ok, NEXT QUESTION:
> 
> Is there anyone here who doesn't understand my complaint: That I'm not seeing graded papers ONE/WEEK?
> 
> Ya wanna know what the PRINCIPAL SAID???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not only fascinated, I'm hearing echoes of a meeting my own mother once had with my principal.  I'm extremely curious to find out if this one will make the same mistake that long-ago one did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First: he wanted to know what a "graded paper" was?
> 
> This immediately set me off, so I explained to a HS Principal what was a graded paper.
> 
> Second: he didn't like my "tone."
> 
> I told him I didn't like his tone either.
> 
> Third he began with the list of excuses: classes meeting only two or three days per week, projects not being done for several weeks, the curriculum....yada, yada, yada.....I interrupted to say none of these excuses held any water, but he said, "Please don't interrupt, let me finish."
> 
> So I let him babble on, then said I didn't care about whether they met ONE, TWO, THREE, Four, or FIVE Days a week, I wanted to see some measure of learning on a weekly basis in each subject....
> 
> Then he interrupted ME!
> 
> I told him that he would please allow ME to finish, and continued to explain that it was embarrassing for me to review what I considered "Teaching 101" with him, but asked, "You do realize that parents are interested in what their kids are doing in school, right?"
> 
> He didn't answer, just stared at me.
Click to expand...


You probably already know this, but with that kind of attitude from adminsitration, I would keep a close eye on things.  This guy may try to punish you for your impudence through your kids.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Foxfyre said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not only fascinated, I'm hearing echoes of a meeting my own mother once had with my principal.  I'm extremely curious to find out if this one will make the same mistake that long-ago one did.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First: he wanted to know what a "graded paper" was?
> 
> This immediately set me off, so I explained to a HS Principal what was a graded paper.
> 
> Second: he didn't like my "tone."
> 
> I told him I didn't like his tone either.
> 
> Third he began with the list of excuses: classes meeting only two or three days per week, projects not being done for several weeks, the curriculum....yada, yada, yada.....I interrupted to say none of these excuses held any water, but he said, "Please don't interrupt, let me finish."
> 
> So I let him babble on, then said I didn't care about whether they met ONE, TWO, THREE, Four, or FIVE Days a week, I wanted to see some measure of learning on a weekly basis in each subject....
> 
> Then he interrupted ME!
> 
> I told him that he would please allow ME to finish, and continued to explain that it was embarrassing for me to review what I considered "Teaching 101" with him, but asked, "You do realize that parents are interested in what their kids are doing in school, right?"
> 
> He didn't answer, just stared at me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You probably already know this, but with that kind of attitude from adminsitration, I would keep a close eye on things.  This guy may try to punish you for your impudence through your kids.
Click to expand...


If he does, he wins the award for Least Perceptive Judge of Character for this decade.  It doesn't take a genius to figure out that Samson's NOT the person to fuck with in that way.


----------



## Samson

before I said, "yes, exactly, I'm embarrassed to even need to ask."

Then I went through "Teaching 101:"

1. Present a concept that is in the curriculum
2. Have the student demonstrate learning
3. Grade the learning on a scale (usually 0-100)
4. Reteach the concept if learning is not demonstrated
5. Rinse, Wash, Repeat.

Not really very complicated.

Anyway, the English Teacher wanted to continue to harange me about being "disrespected" and my "tone" and "How she felt" and how all this had prevented her from communicating her excuses for not having sent home any graded work for 4 weeks....yada, yada.....

I told her not to waste my time trying to make this her emotional issue, as there was nothing, "madame," that I could do to cure it. Furthermore the remedy was quite simple: send graded work home every week.

I asked if there were any other questions. There were none.

Then I presented the principal with the district's Public Complaint Policy, a form he claimed never to have seen. I told him we had completed it through step 4, and then showed him the Complaint Form that he had seen, then I excused myself from the meeting.


----------



## blu

Samson said:


> before I said, "yes, exactly, I'm embarrassed to even need to ask."
> 
> Then I went through "Teaching 101:"
> 
> 1. Present a concept that is in the curriculum
> 2. Have the student demonstrate learning
> 3. Grade the learning on a scale (usually 0-100)
> 4. Reteach the concept if learning is not demonstrated
> 5. Rinse, Wash, Repeat.
> 
> Not really very complicated.
> 
> Anyway, the English Teacher wanted to continue to harange me about being "disrespected" and my "tone" and "How she felt" and how all this had prevented her from communicating her excuses for not having sent home any graded work for 4 weeks....yada, yada.....
> 
> I told her not to waste my time trying to make this her emotional issue, as there was nothing, "madame," that I could do to cure it. Furthermore the remedy was quite simple: send graded work home every week.
> 
> I asked if there were any other questions. There were none.
> 
> Then I presented the principal with the district's Public Complaint Policy, a form he claimed never to have seen. I told him we had completed it through step 4, and then showed him the Complaint Form that he had seen, then I excused myself from the meeting.



take it above the principal and if that fails take it the newspapers / local news station, make them look really bad.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Samson said:


> before I said, "yes, exactly, I'm embarrassed to even need to ask."
> 
> Then I went through "Teaching 101:"
> 
> 1. Present a concept that is in the curriculum
> 2. Have the student demonstrate learning
> 3. Grade the learning on a scale (usually 0-100)
> 4. Reteach the concept if learning is not demonstrated
> 5. Rinse, Wash, Repeat.
> 
> Not really very complicated.
> 
> Anyway, the English Teacher wanted to continue to harange me about being "disrespected" and my "tone" and "How she felt" and how all this had prevented her from communicating her excuses for not having sent home any graded work for 4 weeks....yada, yada.....
> 
> I told her not to waste my time trying to make this her emotional issue, as there was nothing, "madame," that I could do to cure it. Furthermore the remedy was quite simple: send graded work home every week.
> 
> I asked if there were any other questions. There were none.
> 
> Then I presented the principal with the district's Public Complaint Policy, a form he claimed never to have seen. I told him we had completed it through step 4, and then showed him the Complaint Form that he had seen, then I excused myself from the meeting.



What is so difficult about the concept of "you don't demand respect, you earn it" that people like that English teacher can't grasp it?  If you behave like a moronic slacker, you don't have much room to whine when you're treated like one.


----------



## Samson

Cecilie1200 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> before I said, "yes, exactly, I'm embarrassed to even need to ask."
> 
> Then I went through "Teaching 101:"
> 
> 1. Present a concept that is in the curriculum
> 2. Have the student demonstrate learning
> 3. Grade the learning on a scale (usually 0-100)
> 4. Reteach the concept if learning is not demonstrated
> 5. Rinse, Wash, Repeat.
> 
> Not really very complicated.
> 
> Anyway, the English Teacher wanted to continue to harange me about being "disrespected" and my "tone" and "How she felt" and how all this had prevented her from communicating her excuses for not having sent home any graded work for 4 weeks....yada, yada.....
> 
> I told her not to waste my time trying to make this her emotional issue, as there was nothing, "madame," that I could do to cure it. Furthermore the remedy was quite simple: send graded work home every week.
> 
> I asked if there were any other questions. There were none.
> 
> Then I presented the principal with the district's Public Complaint Policy, a form he claimed never to have seen. I told him we had completed it through step 4, and then showed him the Complaint Form that he had seen, then I excused myself from the meeting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is so difficult about the concept of "you don't demand respect, you earn it" that people like that English teacher can't grasp it?  If you behave like a moronic slacker, you don't have much room to whine when you're treated like one.
Click to expand...


Well, in these meetings, you want to keep the issue as simple and crystal clear as possible.

The job of the bureaucracy is to cloud it up, much like a skunk will spray its attacker, in a defensive posture. 

This is why the principal wanted to discuss "what is a graded paper."

All you want to do is find out if everyone understands your complaint: Once they admit they do, you've won. Then it's up to them to either respond to correct it and make you happy, or not.


----------



## Samson

blu said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> before I said, "yes, exactly, I'm embarrassed to even need to ask."
> 
> Then I went through "Teaching 101:"
> 
> 1. Present a concept that is in the curriculum
> 2. Have the student demonstrate learning
> 3. Grade the learning on a scale (usually 0-100)
> 4. Reteach the concept if learning is not demonstrated
> 5. Rinse, Wash, Repeat.
> 
> Not really very complicated.
> 
> Anyway, the English Teacher wanted to continue to harange me about being "disrespected" and my "tone" and "How she felt" and how all this had prevented her from communicating her excuses for not having sent home any graded work for 4 weeks....yada, yada.....
> 
> I told her not to waste my time trying to make this her emotional issue, as there was nothing, "madame," that I could do to cure it. Furthermore the remedy was quite simple: send graded work home every week.
> 
> I asked if there were any other questions. There were none.
> 
> Then I presented the principal with the district's Public Complaint Policy, a form he claimed never to have seen. I told him we had completed it through step 4, and then showed him the Complaint Form that he had seen, then I excused myself from the meeting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> take it above the principal and if that fails take it the newspapers / local news station, make them look really bad.
Click to expand...


I doubt that will be necessary.

When dealing with Bureaucracy, documentation is EVERYTHING.

With my weekly emails, I've documented everything: I have Six (6) emails repeating my request, and asking why it hasn't been done, usually with no response. Now I will document the meeting minutes.

By the way, I forgot to add that the Principal suggested that if there wasn't any grade for the week, the teachers simply send home a signed note stating there was no grade, and why.

I told him that this would document the classroom activity, or lack thereof, very nicely.


----------



## syrenn

Samson said:


> before I said, "yes, exactly, I'm embarrassed to even need to ask."
> 
> Then I went through "Teaching 101:"
> 
> 1. Present a concept that is in the curriculum
> 2. Have the student demonstrate learning
> 3. Grade the learning on a scale (usually 0-100)
> 4. Reteach the concept if learning is not demonstrated
> 5. Rinse, Wash, Repeat.
> 
> Not really very complicated.
> 
> Anyway, the English Teacher wanted to continue to harange me about being "disrespected" and my "tone" and "How she felt" and how all this had prevented her from communicating her excuses for not having sent home any graded work for 4 weeks....yada, yada.....
> 
> I told her not to waste my time trying to make this her emotional issue, as there was nothing, "madame," that I could do to cure it. Furthermore the remedy was quite simple: send graded work home every week.
> 
> I asked if there were any other questions. There were none.
> 
> Then I presented the principal with the district's Public Complaint Policy, a form he claimed never to have seen. I told him we had completed it through step 4, and then showed him the Complaint Form that he had seen, then I excused myself from the meeting.




Union teachers....sorry but that is what this is coming down to. They know its pretty well impossible to get them fired. They know you cant make them do more work then the want to. 

Good to see your filing all of the proper complaints!


----------



## Samson

syrenn said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> before I said, "yes, exactly, I'm embarrassed to even need to ask."
> 
> Then I went through "Teaching 101:"
> 
> 1. Present a concept that is in the curriculum
> 2. Have the student demonstrate learning
> 3. Grade the learning on a scale (usually 0-100)
> 4. Reteach the concept if learning is not demonstrated
> 5. Rinse, Wash, Repeat.
> 
> Not really very complicated.
> 
> Anyway, the English Teacher wanted to continue to harange me about being "disrespected" and my "tone" and "How she felt" and how all this had prevented her from communicating her excuses for not having sent home any graded work for 4 weeks....yada, yada.....
> 
> I told her not to waste my time trying to make this her emotional issue, as there was nothing, "madame," that I could do to cure it. Furthermore the remedy was quite simple: send graded work home every week.
> 
> I asked if there were any other questions. There were none.
> 
> Then I presented the principal with the district's Public Complaint Policy, a form he claimed never to have seen. I told him we had completed it through step 4, and then showed him the Complaint Form that he had seen, then I excused myself from the meeting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Union teachers....sorry but that is what this is coming down to. They know its pretty well impossible to get them fired. They know you cant make them do more work then the want to.
> 
> Good to see your filing all of the proper complaints!
Click to expand...


I'm actually hoping to have made my point, finally.

If I go any further, the principal sends a copy of my complaint, and a written report of the conference to a review committee appointed by the Superintendent or designee. I get a copy of the report, and so do any teachers involved, and a copy is filed at the school. The principal then must provide copies of learning activities, methods, and use them to determine a professional opinion. I also am given the opportunity to render an opinion untilizing supporting evidence.

In other words, the principal has to do a shitload of work.

Then within 60 days of receiving the complaint, the committee puts together a written recommendation which is distributed to the Superintendent, and "all parties of interest."

Then if I'm not satisfied, I can appeal to the Superintendent and, if necessary, the Board of Education.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

editec said:


> Yes, I think you are.
> 
> When I taught full time I had 150 students and gave 25 academic lectures or classes a week.  Do you have any idea how much prep work that demanded of me?
> 
> I didn't have time to send parents reports every week.
> 
> I really didn't have enough time to give the students the individual attention they often needed.


It is amusing that  you imagine  that you have "memories" of giving lectures or teaching classes.
If it happened it explains a lot.
When I was in school  I had dozens of graded  papers to bring home each week, which I  did, no matter how  often my parents  were to move without telling me


----------



## Samson

blu said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???
> 
> 
> 
> It's the teachers fault your 10th grader is a fuck up?
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my stepson gets straight As but he knows that every tuesday (grade day) he better have brought his folder home with everything in it. you are  a jackass if you aren't reviewing what your kids do in school
Click to expand...


3rd grade.

The "Friday Folder" or in your case, "Tuesday Folder" often disappears after the 6th grade and students don't have just one teacher that is accountable for most of their learning.

Obsentiously, this is because the student, going from one classroom to another, must keep their OWN folder of graded papers, but what I'm finding is the teachers use it as an excuse not to hand back anything, but to keep folders within the classroom. 

Complicating the issue more is the "Block Scheduling" whereby students don't see teachers every day, but every other day: what is done on Friday will not be available until the following Tuesday, a spanse of time during which the HS student (and even teachers) often forgets anything happened.


----------



## syrenn

Samson said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> before I said, "yes, exactly, I'm embarrassed to even need to ask."
> 
> Then I went through "Teaching 101:"
> 
> 1. Present a concept that is in the curriculum
> 2. Have the student demonstrate learning
> 3. Grade the learning on a scale (usually 0-100)
> 4. Reteach the concept if learning is not demonstrated
> 5. Rinse, Wash, Repeat.
> 
> Not really very complicated.
> 
> Anyway, the English Teacher wanted to continue to harange me about being "disrespected" and my "tone" and "How she felt" and how all this had prevented her from communicating her excuses for not having sent home any graded work for 4 weeks....yada, yada.....
> 
> I told her not to waste my time trying to make this her emotional issue, as there was nothing, "madame," that I could do to cure it. Furthermore the remedy was quite simple: send graded work home every week.
> 
> I asked if there were any other questions. There were none.
> 
> Then I presented the principal with the district's Public Complaint Policy, a form he claimed never to have seen. I told him we had completed it through step 4, and then showed him the Complaint Form that he had seen, then I excused myself from the meeting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Union teachers....sorry but that is what this is coming down to. They know its pretty well impossible to get them fired. They know you cant make them do more work then the want to.
> 
> Good to see your filing all of the proper complaints!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm actually hoping to have made my point, finally.
> 
> If I go any further, the principal sends a copy of my complaint, and a written report of the conference to a review committee appointed by the Superintendent or designee. I get a copy of the report, and so do any teachers involved, and a copy is filed at the school. The principal then must provide copies of learning activities, methods, and use them to determine a professional opinion. I also am given the opportunity to render an opinion untilizing supporting evidence.
> 
> In other words, the principal has to do a shitload of work.
> 
> Then within 60 days of receiving the complaint, the committee puts together a written recommendation which is distributed to the Superintendent, and "all parties of interest."
> 
> Then if I'm not satisfied, I can appeal to the Superintendent and, if necessary, the Board of Education.
Click to expand...



So what you are basically saying is that they are going to tie you up in paperwork...and you wont see any results of this until next year. 

I would just start at the top all on your own....and not wait for them to dick around.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Samson said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> before I said, "yes, exactly, I'm embarrassed to even need to ask."
> 
> Then I went through "Teaching 101:"
> 
> 1. Present a concept that is in the curriculum
> 2. Have the student demonstrate learning
> 3. Grade the learning on a scale (usually 0-100)
> 4. Reteach the concept if learning is not demonstrated
> 5. Rinse, Wash, Repeat.
> 
> Not really very complicated.
> 
> Anyway, the English Teacher wanted to continue to harange me about being "disrespected" and my "tone" and "How she felt" and how all this had prevented her from communicating her excuses for not having sent home any graded work for 4 weeks....yada, yada.....
> 
> I told her not to waste my time trying to make this her emotional issue, as there was nothing, "madame," that I could do to cure it. Furthermore the remedy was quite simple: send graded work home every week.
> 
> I asked if there were any other questions. There were none.
> 
> Then I presented the principal with the district's Public Complaint Policy, a form he claimed never to have seen. I told him we had completed it through step 4, and then showed him the Complaint Form that he had seen, then I excused myself from the meeting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Union teachers....sorry but that is what this is coming down to. They know its pretty well impossible to get them fired. They know you cant make them do more work then the want to.
> 
> Good to see your filing all of the proper complaints!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm actually hoping to have made my point, finally.
> 
> If I go any further, the principal sends a copy of my complaint, and a written report of the conference to a review committee appointed by the Superintendent or designee. I get a copy of the report, and so do any teachers involved, and a copy is filed at the school. The principal then must provide copies of learning activities, methods, and use them to determine a professional opinion. I also am given the opportunity to render an opinion untilizing supporting evidence.
> 
> *In other words, the principal has to do a shitload of work.*
> 
> Then within 60 days of receiving the complaint, the committee puts together a written recommendation which is distributed to the Superintendent, and "all parties of interest."
> 
> Then if I'm not satisfied, I can appeal to the Superintendent and, if necessary, the Board of Education.
Click to expand...


As the military says, shit rolls downhill.  Is the principal going to take on more work AND put himself under critical scrutiny by the school district, or is he going to insist that the _teachers _do more work?  Doesn't take a genius to answer that question.


----------



## Cecilie1200

syrenn said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Union teachers....sorry but that is what this is coming down to. They know its pretty well impossible to get them fired. They know you cant make them do more work then the want to.
> 
> Good to see your filing all of the proper complaints!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm actually hoping to have made my point, finally.
> 
> If I go any further, the principal sends a copy of my complaint, and a written report of the conference to a review committee appointed by the Superintendent or designee. I get a copy of the report, and so do any teachers involved, and a copy is filed at the school. The principal then must provide copies of learning activities, methods, and use them to determine a professional opinion. I also am given the opportunity to render an opinion untilizing supporting evidence.
> 
> In other words, the principal has to do a shitload of work.
> 
> Then within 60 days of receiving the complaint, the committee puts together a written recommendation which is distributed to the Superintendent, and "all parties of interest."
> 
> Then if I'm not satisfied, I can appeal to the Superintendent and, if necessary, the Board of Education.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So what you are basically saying is that they are going to tie you up in paperwork...and you wont see any results of this until next year.
> 
> I would just start at the top all on your own....and not wait for them to dick around.
Click to expand...


I'm betting it doesn't come to that.  That principal would be a damned fool to put himself through all that when he can just come down hard on the teachers and make THEM do the extra work to shut Samson up.


----------



## Samson

syrenn said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Union teachers....sorry but that is what this is coming down to. They know its pretty well impossible to get them fired. They know you cant make them do more work then the want to.
> 
> Good to see your filing all of the proper complaints!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm actually hoping to have made my point, finally.
> 
> If I go any further, the principal sends a copy of my complaint, and a written report of the conference to a review committee appointed by the Superintendent or designee. I get a copy of the report, and so do any teachers involved, and a copy is filed at the school. The principal then must provide copies of learning activities, methods, and use them to determine a professional opinion. I also am given the opportunity to render an opinion untilizing supporting evidence.
> 
> In other words, the principal has to do a shitload of work.
> 
> Then within 60 days of receiving the complaint, the committee puts together a written recommendation which is distributed to the Superintendent, and "all parties of interest."
> 
> Then if I'm not satisfied, I can appeal to the Superintendent and, if necessary, the Board of Education.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So what you are basically saying is that they are going to tie you up in paperwork...and you wont see any results of this until next year.
> 
> I would just start at the top all on your own....and not wait for them to dick around.
Click to expand...


No actually, I have done all the paperwork. I have my e-mails, and the form is quite simple, as is my complaint.

The principal will be the one that has to do A LOT of extra work. And the District. And all the while, I might be enlisting other parents to follow my path, now that its already established.

No, the whole thing becomes a bureaucratic nightmare for the administration.

All because teachers cannot supply me with ONE graded paper every week.


----------



## syrenn

Samson said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm actually hoping to have made my point, finally.
> 
> If I go any further, the principal sends a copy of my complaint, and a written report of the conference to a review committee appointed by the Superintendent or designee. I get a copy of the report, and so do any teachers involved, and a copy is filed at the school. The principal then must provide copies of learning activities, methods, and use them to determine a professional opinion. I also am given the opportunity to render an opinion untilizing supporting evidence.
> 
> In other words, the principal has to do a shitload of work.
> 
> Then within 60 days of receiving the complaint, the committee puts together a written recommendation which is distributed to the Superintendent, and "all parties of interest."
> 
> Then if I'm not satisfied, I can appeal to the Superintendent and, if necessary, the Board of Education.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what you are basically saying is that they are going to tie you up in paperwork...and you wont see any results of this until next year.
> 
> I would just start at the top all on your own....and not wait for them to dick around.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No actually, I have done all the paperwork. I have my e-mails, and the form is quite simple, as is my complaint.
> 
> The principal will be the one that has to do A LOT of extra work. And the District. And all the while, I might be enlisting other parents to follow my path, now that its already established.
> 
> *No, the whole thing becomes a bureaucratic nightmare for the administration.*
> 
> All because teachers cannot supply me with ONE graded paper every week.
Click to expand...




Good let it become a nightmare for them. You will at least get the results you want. 


Then what are you waiting for.....file it and do it! The longer you wait the worse it will get. It is obvious that neither the teacher or the principal have ANY interest in you or your child.

You tried the nice way...and they more or less told you to damn bad they wont do it.


----------



## Samson

syrenn said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what you are basically saying is that they are going to tie you up in paperwork...and you wont see any results of this until next year.
> 
> I would just start at the top all on your own....and not wait for them to dick around.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No actually, I have done all the paperwork. I have my e-mails, and the form is quite simple, as is my complaint.
> 
> The principal will be the one that has to do A LOT of extra work. And the District. And all the while, I might be enlisting other parents to follow my path, now that its already established.
> 
> *No, the whole thing becomes a bureaucratic nightmare for the administration.*
> 
> All because teachers cannot supply me with ONE graded paper every week.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good let it become a nightmare for them. You will at least get the results you want.
> 
> 
> Then what are you waiting for.....file it and do it! The longer you wait the worse it will get. It is obvious that neither the teacher or the principal have ANY interest in you or your child.
> 
> You tried the nice way...and they more or less told you to damn bad they wont do it.
Click to expand...


I'll give it a couple of weeks.

The District Level Committee chairperson will appreciate that I gave the school every possible opportunity to satisfy my complaint, and will be pissed off even more that he or she has to deal with such stupidity from the school.

Besides, it's not even October.....60 days is still well within the Fall Semester, and even more so the 2010-2011 school year.


----------



## syrenn

Samson said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> No actually, I have done all the paperwork. I have my e-mails, and the form is quite simple, as is my complaint.
> 
> The principal will be the one that has to do A LOT of extra work. And the District. And all the while, I might be enlisting other parents to follow my path, now that its already established.
> 
> *No, the whole thing becomes a bureaucratic nightmare for the administration.*
> 
> All because teachers cannot supply me with ONE graded paper every week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good let it become a nightmare for them. You will at least get the results you want.
> 
> 
> Then what are you waiting for.....file it and do it! The longer you wait the worse it will get. It is obvious that neither the teacher or the principal have ANY interest in you or your child.
> 
> You tried the nice way...and they more or less told you to damn bad they wont do it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll give it a couple of weeks.
> 
> The District Level Committee chairperson will appreciate that I gave the school every possible opportunity to satisfy my complaint, and will be pissed off even more that he or she has to deal with such stupidity from the school.
> 
> Besides, it's not even October.....60 days is still well within the Fall Semester, and even more so the 2010-2011 school year.
Click to expand...



So if you give it a couple of weeks...that's what mid to end of October? Then they have the 60 days to respond...now your into next year. The way i see this is a wasted semester.

Have you had any informal chats with this chairperson? I think you may want to prime that pump.


----------



## topspin

spoiled kids are the best. Hey mine were so I'm not calling you out.
 Good luck getting the grown ups to respond to your every whim when you can't get your kid to listen.

 Are they in any extra activities. Mine were in wrestling and fear of removal from the team was more than enough motivator to have the grades above a minimum.


----------



## asterism

Samson said:


> before I said, "yes, exactly, I'm embarrassed to even need to ask."
> 
> Then I went through "Teaching 101:"
> 
> 1. Present a concept that is in the curriculum
> 2. Have the student demonstrate learning
> 3. Grade the learning on a scale (usually 0-100)
> 4. Reteach the concept if learning is not demonstrated
> 5. Rinse, Wash, Repeat.
> 
> Not really very complicated.
> 
> Anyway, the English Teacher wanted to continue to harange me about being "disrespected" and my "tone" and "How she felt" and how all this had prevented her from communicating her excuses for not having sent home any graded work for 4 weeks....yada, yada.....
> 
> I told her not to waste my time trying to make this her emotional issue, as there was nothing, "madame," that I could do to cure it. Furthermore the remedy was quite simple: send graded work home every week.
> 
> I asked if there were any other questions. There were none.
> 
> Then I presented the principal with the district's Public Complaint Policy, a form he claimed never to have seen. I told him we had completed it through step 4, and then showed him the Complaint Form that he had seen, then I excused myself from the meeting.



Well done!


----------



## topspin

I think it's hillarious to put underpaid teachers under extra demands becuase our kids are too spoiled to listen. Good luck with your browbeating of the teacher.
 Most times kids bad grades are due to bad parents not teachers.


----------



## Cecilie1200

topspin said:


> I think it's hillarious to put underpaid teachers under extra demands becuase our kids are too spoiled to listen. Good luck with your browbeating of the teacher.
> Most times kids bad grades are due to bad parents not teachers.



Extra demands?  You mean like assigning work, grading it, and then giving it back?  You consider those things to be "extra" to the job of teaching?  What, then, do you consider a teacher's job to be?


----------



## topspin

I don't recall it being the parents perogative on setting when graded activities were done. LOL


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm actually hoping to have made my point, finally.
> 
> If I go any further, the principal sends a copy of my complaint, and a written report of the conference to a review committee appointed by the Superintendent or designee. I get a copy of the report, and so do any teachers involved, and a copy is filed at the school. The principal then must provide copies of learning activities, methods, and use them to determine a professional opinion. I also am given the opportunity to render an opinion untilizing supporting evidence.
> 
> In other words, the principal has to do a shitload of work.
> 
> Then within 60 days of receiving the complaint, the committee puts together a written recommendation which is distributed to the Superintendent, and "all parties of interest."
> 
> Then if I'm not satisfied, I can appeal to the Superintendent and, if necessary, the Board of Education.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what you are basically saying is that they are going to tie you up in paperwork...and you wont see any results of this until next year.
> 
> I would just start at the top all on your own....and not wait for them to dick around.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No actually, I have done all the paperwork. I have my e-mails, and the form is quite simple, as is my complaint.
> 
> The principal will be the one that has to do A LOT of extra work. And the District. And all the while, I might be enlisting other parents to follow my path, now that its already established.
> 
> No, the whole thing becomes a bureaucratic nightmare for the administration.
> 
> All because teachers cannot supply me with ONE graded paper every week.
Click to expand...

What if there is a week where there are no graded papers?


----------



## Cecilie1200

topspin said:


> I don't recall it being the parents perogative on setting when graded activities were done. LOL



Nor is he asking to.  One written assignment a week sounds like a perfectly logical assumption to make. "LOL"  I'm still waiting for you to tell me what you think the holy, sacred, exhausting job of teachers is that Samson's request is so unreasonable and extraneous to.  What is it you imagine they SHOULD be doing that doesn't include assigning written work and grading it?


----------



## Cecilie1200

xotoxi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what you are basically saying is that they are going to tie you up in paperwork...and you wont see any results of this until next year.
> 
> I would just start at the top all on your own....and not wait for them to dick around.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No actually, I have done all the paperwork. I have my e-mails, and the form is quite simple, as is my complaint.
> 
> The principal will be the one that has to do A LOT of extra work. And the District. And all the while, I might be enlisting other parents to follow my path, now that its already established.
> 
> No, the whole thing becomes a bureaucratic nightmare for the administration.
> 
> All because teachers cannot supply me with ONE graded paper every week.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What if there is a week where there are no graded papers?
Click to expand...


Then there should be a good reason why, and it takes all of five seconds to scribble a note stating that reason and hand it to Samson Jr.  Quite frankly, I would have expected some sort of yearly or semester syllabus - or at least an outline - to have made an appearance at the beginning of the year so that the parents would be expecting the weeks full of lab work.


----------



## topspin

you could have 30 parents with 30 different request. Some might be honored some not.
 He said his kid wasn't reliable with bringing papers home, so that gets turned into the teachers fault.
 Shit I don't need that kind of pressure for dogshit pay and no respect.


----------



## Ravi

topspin said:


> you could have 30 parents with 30 different request. Some might be honored some not.
> *He said his kid wasn't reliable with bringing papers home, so that gets turned into the teachers fault.*
> Shit I don't need that kind of pressure for dogshit pay and no respect.


Yep. 

The school takes into account what the parents in the area want as a whole. One parent with an attitude doesn't count for much.


----------



## xotoxi

Cecilie1200 said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> No actually, I have done all the paperwork. I have my e-mails, and the form is quite simple, as is my complaint.
> 
> The principal will be the one that has to do A LOT of extra work. And the District. And all the while, I might be enlisting other parents to follow my path, now that its already established.
> 
> No, the whole thing becomes a bureaucratic nightmare for the administration.
> 
> All because teachers cannot supply me with ONE graded paper every week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What if there is a week where there are no graded papers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then there should be a good reason why, and it takes all of five seconds to scribble a note stating that reason and hand it to Samson Jr.  Quite frankly, I would have expected some sort of yearly or semester syllabus - or at least an outline - to have made an appearance at the beginning of the year so that the parents would be expecting the weeks full of lab work.
Click to expand...


Why does there have to be a good reason?  How often should a child's education be assessed?  Should there be a quiz or "paper" every day?  If all the time is spent assessing what is learned, when is there time to learn?

And if the parent wants to micromanage their child's education, then maybe they should be putting some onus on the child to communicate with them and let them know what they are doing.

Seems to me like Samson is not actually interested in the grades or the papers, but more in just creating a hassle for everyone.


----------



## Samson

Cecilie1200 said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> No actually, I have done all the paperwork. I have my e-mails, and the form is quite simple, as is my complaint.
> 
> The principal will be the one that has to do A LOT of extra work. And the District. And all the while, I might be enlisting other parents to follow my path, now that its already established.
> 
> No, the whole thing becomes a bureaucratic nightmare for the administration.
> 
> All because teachers cannot supply me with ONE graded paper every week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What if there is a week where there are no graded papers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then there should be a good reason why, and it takes all of five seconds to scribble a note stating that reason and hand it to Samson Jr.  Quite frankly, I would have expected some sort of yearly or semester syllabus - or at least an outline - to have made an appearance at the beginning of the year so that the parents would be expecting the weeks full of lab work.
Click to expand...


There were syllabii, and I can check grades thathave been given with those that have returned home. Generally, Samson Jr. has been reliable.

At any rate, each week I give my phone number and urge anyone who's interested in explaining their situation, e.g., "I Gave Jr. this paper, this week a chance to voice their POV: None has.

Why?

Because they haven't given him anything, and the only excuses they have is they simply cannot put it together.


----------



## topspin

try sitting down with the kid and reviewing some of the work instead of being a thorn in the teacher and priciple's ass.
 Teenagers only act like they hate you, they don't.


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> I'm actually hoping to have made my point, finally.
> 
> ...the principal has to do a shitload of work...





Samson said:


> The principal will be the one that has to do A LOT of extra work. And the District. And all the while, I might be enlisting other parents to follow my path, now that its already established.
> 
> No, the whole thing becomes a bureaucratic nightmare for the administration.



Samson's goal: create a bureaucratic nightmare for the administration.

He doesn't really care about "the slaves" education.  I haven't even heard him mention a thing about what he will do if the slaves grades are poor and what he will do to help the slave do better.


----------



## topspin

probably a step kid


----------



## Ravi

topspin said:


> probably a step kid


More like a tool to be used against the government in general and the public school system in particular.


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> What if there is a week where there are no graded papers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then there should be a good reason why, and it takes all of five seconds to scribble a note stating that reason and hand it to Samson Jr.  Quite frankly, I would have expected some sort of yearly or semester syllabus - or at least an outline - to have made an appearance at the beginning of the year so that the parents would be expecting the weeks full of lab work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why does there have to be a good reason?  How often should a child's education be assessed?  Should there be a quiz or "paper" every day?  If all the time is spent assessing what is learned, when is there time to learn?
> 
> And if the parent wants to micromanage their child's education, then maybe they should be putting some onus on the child to communicate with them and let them know what they are doing.
> 
> Seems to me like Samson is not actually interested in the grades or the papers, but more in just creating a hassle for everyone.
Click to expand...


Well, I suppose I could write a thread about how I've encouraged SJ over the past 16 years. You want me to do that? I'll tell you what: Begin a thread about your teenager, and we'll compare notes.

And I agree: there are parents that would love to micromanage educators. If I had thought that asking for One graded paper/week/subject was going to be such a big hairy deal, I probably would have begun by asking that I get _one every day_. Then I suppose my once/week policy would seem more reasonable?

In reality, I expect these teachers have had enough fire lit under them to last the remainder of the Semester, and I won't need to remind them again that they're being very closely scrutinized.


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then there should be a good reason why, and it takes all of five seconds to scribble a note stating that reason and hand it to Samson Jr.  Quite frankly, I would have expected some sort of yearly or semester syllabus - or at least an outline - to have made an appearance at the beginning of the year so that the parents would be expecting the weeks full of lab work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why does there have to be a good reason?  How often should a child's education be assessed?  Should there be a quiz or "paper" every day?  If all the time is spent assessing what is learned, when is there time to learn?
> 
> And if the parent wants to micromanage their child's education, then maybe they should be putting some onus on the child to communicate with them and let them know what they are doing.
> 
> Seems to me like Samson is not actually interested in the grades or the papers, but more in just creating a hassle for everyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I suppose I could write a thread about how I've encouraged SJ over the past 16 years. You want me to do that? I'll tell you what: Begin a thread about your teenager, and we'll compare notes.
> 
> And I agree: there are parents that would love to micromanage educators. If I had thought that asking for One graded paper/week/subject was going to be such a big hairy deal, I probably would have begun by asking that I get _one every day_. Then I suppose my once/week policy would seem more reasonable?
> 
> In reality, I expect these teachers have had enough fire lit under them to last the remainder of the Semester, and I won't need to remind them again that they're being very closely scrutinized.
Click to expand...


If I were one of your child's teachers, I would tell you that if you would like to review your child's work in depth, you can come in to meet with me every Thursday afternoon at 3:30pm.  We could go over the work face to face and discuss the issue.  And I would encourage all of my colleagues to do the same.

I'd put the onus on you to prove to me that your child's education was important enough an issue that you would spend 3-6 hours per week of your time coming to the school.


----------



## topspin

so now you've got the teacher under scrutiny, is the kid next in line. LOL I'm glad mine are out of college


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm actually hoping to have made my point, finally.
> 
> ...the principal has to do a shitload of work...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> The principal will be the one that has to do A LOT of extra work. And the District. And all the while, I might be enlisting other parents to follow my path, now that its already established.
> 
> No, the whole thing becomes a bureaucratic nightmare for the administration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Samson's goal: create a bureaucratic nightmare for the administration.
> 
> He doesn't really care about "the slaves" education.  I haven't even heard him mention a thing about what he will do if the slaves grades are poor and what he will do to help the slave do better.
Click to expand...


Yes, the fact that my kid is attending the school is just a coincidence. My hobby is creating bureaucratic nightmares for random public schools, and I just threw a dart at a map and happened to hit this one.

Again, if you'd like to compare your parenting methods with mine, I'd be happy to: Begin a thread about your teenager, and I'll be happy to jump in!!


----------



## Cecilie1200

topspin said:


> you could have 30 parents with 30 different request. Some might be honored some not.
> He said his kid wasn't reliable with bringing papers home, so that gets turned into the teachers fault.
> Shit I don't need that kind of pressure for dogshit pay and no respect.



I'm not interested in 30 apocryphal parents with 30 apocryphal requests.  We're talking about THIS parent with THIS request for something that should be happening anyway, so is there any possible way you could discuss what's ACTUALLY happening on the basis of what's ACTUALLY happening, rather than in relation to some fantasy scenario taking place in your - I use the term loosely - mind?  Thanks.

Most kids aren't reliable with bringing papers home.  No one said that was the teacher's fault.  Had you been reading the thread at all, you'd know that his complaint is that they aren't giving the kid any papers to be unreliable about.  Even the English teacher said she wasn't giving him any papers, followed by an attempt to make excuses for not doing it.

Either keep up or shut up.


----------



## topspin

communicate with your spawn, issue solved.


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why does there have to be a good reason?  How often should a child's education be assessed?  Should there be a quiz or "paper" every day?  If all the time is spent assessing what is learned, when is there time to learn?
> 
> And if the parent wants to micromanage their child's education, then maybe they should be putting some onus on the child to communicate with them and let them know what they are doing.
> 
> Seems to me like Samson is not actually interested in the grades or the papers, but more in just creating a hassle for everyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I suppose I could write a thread about how I've encouraged SJ over the past 16 years. You want me to do that? I'll tell you what: Begin a thread about your teenager, and we'll compare notes.
> 
> And I agree: there are parents that would love to micromanage educators. If I had thought that asking for One graded paper/week/subject was going to be such a big hairy deal, I probably would have begun by asking that I get _one every day_. Then I suppose my once/week policy would seem more reasonable?
> 
> In reality, I expect these teachers have had enough fire lit under them to last the remainder of the Semester, and I won't need to remind them again that they're being very closely scrutinized.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If I were one of your child's teachers, I would tell you that if you would like to review your child's work in depth, you can come in to meet with me every Thursday afternoon at 3:30pm.  We could go over the work face to face and discuss the issue.  And I would encourage all of my colleagues to do the same.
> 
> I'd put the onus on you to prove to me that your child's education was important enough an issue that you would spend 3-6 hours per week of your time coming to the school.
Click to expand...




Xoti, would you REALLY want me to show up every week _after school_ to spend an hour or so browbeating you (e.g is this the ONLY WAY this can be taught? Why'd you correct this, but not this? Tell me a little more about how this relates to the curriculum?), adding more time to your already long, stressful day......

Or would you like to simply grade a homework assignment?


----------



## Samson

Cecilie1200 said:


> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> you could have 30 parents with 30 different request. Some might be honored some not.
> He said his kid wasn't reliable with bringing papers home, so that gets turned into the teachers fault.
> Shit I don't need that kind of pressure for dogshit pay and no respect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not interested in 30 apocryphal parents with 30 apocryphal requests.  We're talking about THIS parent with THIS request for something that should be happening anyway, so is there any possible way you could discuss what's ACTUALLY happening on the basis of what's ACTUALLY happening, rather than in relation to some fantasy scenario taking place in your - I use the term loosely - mind?  Thanks.
> 
> Most kids aren't reliable with bringing papers home.  No one said that was the teacher's fault.  Had you been reading the thread at all, you'd know that his complaint is that they aren't giving the kid any papers to be unreliable about.  Even the English teacher said she wasn't giving him any papers, followed by an attempt to make excuses for not doing it.
> 
> Either keep up or shut up.
Click to expand...


----------



## Cecilie1200

xotoxi said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> What if there is a week where there are no graded papers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then there should be a good reason why, and it takes all of five seconds to scribble a note stating that reason and hand it to Samson Jr.  Quite frankly, I would have expected some sort of yearly or semester syllabus - or at least an outline - to have made an appearance at the beginning of the year so that the parents would be expecting the weeks full of lab work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why does there have to be a good reason?  How often should a child's education be assessed?  Should there be a quiz or "paper" every day?  If all the time is spent assessing what is learned, when is there time to learn?
> 
> And if the parent wants to micromanage their child's education, then maybe they should be putting some onus on the child to communicate with them and let them know what they are doing.
> 
> Seems to me like Samson is not actually interested in the grades or the papers, but more in just creating a hassle for everyone.
Click to expand...


I'm sorry?  Did you just ask me why there has to be a good reason for class time to be used for something other than schoolwork that involves written papers?  Seriously?  I actually need to tell you why there should be a good and logical explanation for the use of every minute of a student's class time?

Written schoolwork isn't "assessing the child's education".  It IS the child's education.  How in the hell do you think students - kids or otherwise - get educated, if not by actually DOING WORK?  You really think they're gonna come out of high school informed and ready to take on the world just by sitting at a desk and listening to someone talk?  Even colleges, with their hours and hours of lectures, don't expect that to happen.

Samson's not asking for every day.  He's asking for once a week.  Could someone explain why so many people who feel the need to shoot off their mouths on this thread haven't bothered to read it thoroughly enough to grasp that one simple fact?

As for "put the onus on the kid", would YOU trust a teenager to tell you honestly that he's blowing off his schoolwork?  That's part of the point of having . . . stay with me here . . . adult supervision.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Samson said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> What if there is a week where there are no graded papers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then there should be a good reason why, and it takes all of five seconds to scribble a note stating that reason and hand it to Samson Jr.  Quite frankly, I would have expected some sort of yearly or semester syllabus - or at least an outline - to have made an appearance at the beginning of the year so that the parents would be expecting the weeks full of lab work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There were syllabii, and I can check grades thathave been given with those that have returned home. Generally, Samson Jr. has been reliable.
> 
> At any rate, each week I give my phone number and urge anyone who's interested in explaining their situation, e.g., "I Gave Jr. this paper, this week a chance to voice their POV: None has.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Because they haven't given him anything, and the only excuses they have is they simply cannot put it together.
Click to expand...


So basically, if Samson Jr. had a week when, for example, his science class was doing hands-on lab work rather than written assignments, you would know and all they would have to do is send some sort of note indicating how he was graded on the lab.  Right?

There you go.  Easy-peasy.


----------



## Cecilie1200

xotoxi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why does there have to be a good reason?  How often should a child's education be assessed?  Should there be a quiz or "paper" every day?  If all the time is spent assessing what is learned, when is there time to learn?
> 
> And if the parent wants to micromanage their child's education, then maybe they should be putting some onus on the child to communicate with them and let them know what they are doing.
> 
> Seems to me like Samson is not actually interested in the grades or the papers, but more in just creating a hassle for everyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I suppose I could write a thread about how I've encouraged SJ over the past 16 years. You want me to do that? I'll tell you what: Begin a thread about your teenager, and we'll compare notes.
> 
> And I agree: there are parents that would love to micromanage educators. If I had thought that asking for One graded paper/week/subject was going to be such a big hairy deal, I probably would have begun by asking that I get _one every day_. Then I suppose my once/week policy would seem more reasonable?
> 
> In reality, I expect these teachers have had enough fire lit under them to last the remainder of the Semester, and I won't need to remind them again that they're being very closely scrutinized.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If I were one of your child's teachers, I would tell you that if you would like to review your child's work in depth, you can come in to meet with me every Thursday afternoon at 3:30pm.  We could go over the work face to face and discuss the issue.  And I would encourage all of my colleagues to do the same.
> 
> I'd put the onus on you to prove to me that your child's education was important enough an issue that you would spend 3-6 hours per week of your time coming to the school.
Click to expand...


Oh, yeah, right.  These people are having trouble with "send home a paper with a grade written on it once a week", and you really think they're going to be able to manage an entire weekly meeting?  Did you sustain a head injury recently?


----------



## Samson

Cecilie1200 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then there should be a good reason why, and it takes all of five seconds to scribble a note stating that reason and hand it to Samson Jr.  Quite frankly, I would have expected some sort of yearly or semester syllabus - or at least an outline - to have made an appearance at the beginning of the year so that the parents would be expecting the weeks full of lab work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were syllabii, and I can check grades thathave been given with those that have returned home. Generally, Samson Jr. has been reliable.
> 
> At any rate, each week I give my phone number and urge anyone who's interested in explaining their situation, e.g., "I Gave Jr. this paper, this week a chance to voice their POV: None has.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Because they haven't given him anything, and the only excuses they have is they simply cannot put it together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So basically, if Samson Jr. had a week when, for example, his science class was doing hands-on lab work rather than written assignments, you would know and all they would have to do is send some sort of note indicating how he was graded on the lab.  Right?
> 
> There you go.  Easy-peasy.
Click to expand...


Exactly, or, heaven forbid, the teacher ask the kids to write the answer to the question: What is the purpose of this week's lab? Fifteen minutes, max....

But I don't want to micromanage this sort of thing.


----------



## Cecilie1200

topspin said:


> communicate with your spawn, issue solved.



Yeah, Samson.  Where the hell do you get off even expecting that poor, underpaid, downtrodden teacher to show up to school at all?  You and your kid ought to handle this whole education thing yourselves without expecting any input from those poor teachers, y'damned slavedriver.


----------



## Samson

Cecilie1200 said:


> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> communicate with your spawn, issue solved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, Samson.  Where the hell do you get off even expecting that poor, underpaid, downtrodden teacher to show up to school at all?  You and your kid ought to handle this whole education thing yourselves without expecting any input from those poor teachers, y'damned slavedriver.
Click to expand...


Can I keep the district's school tax if I "handle this whole education thing" myself?


----------



## Cecilie1200

Samson said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were syllabii, and I can check grades thathave been given with those that have returned home. Generally, Samson Jr. has been reliable.
> 
> At any rate, each week I give my phone number and urge anyone who's interested in explaining their situation, e.g., "I Gave Jr. this paper, this week a chance to voice their POV: None has.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Because they haven't given him anything, and the only excuses they have is they simply cannot put it together.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So basically, if Samson Jr. had a week when, for example, his science class was doing hands-on lab work rather than written assignments, you would know and all they would have to do is send some sort of note indicating how he was graded on the lab.  Right?
> 
> There you go.  Easy-peasy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly, or, heaven forbid, the teacher ask the kids to write the answer to the question: What is the purpose of this week's lab? Fifteen minutes, max....
> 
> But I don't want to micromanage this sort of thing.
Click to expand...


I seem to recall having to make notes of some sort while doing lab work, anyway.  Not much point in dissecting a frog if you can't demonstrate that you understand what you're looking at, rather than just hacking and slashing.


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm actually hoping to have made my point, finally.
> 
> ...the principal has to do a shitload of work...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> The principal will be the one that has to do A LOT of extra work. And the District. And all the while, I might be enlisting other parents to follow my path, now that its already established.
> 
> No, the whole thing becomes a bureaucratic nightmare for the administration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Samson's goal: create a bureaucratic nightmare for the administration.
> 
> He doesn't really care about "the slaves" education.  I haven't even heard him mention a thing about what he will do if the slaves grades are poor and what he will do to help the slave do better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, the fact that my kid is attending the school is just a coincidence. My hobby is creating bureaucratic nightmares for random public schools, and I just threw a dart at a map and happened to hit this one.
> 
> Again, if you'd like to compare your parenting methods with mine, I'd be happy to: Begin a thread about your teenager, and I'll be happy to jump in!!
Click to expand...


I don't have a teenager.  And I'm not really discussing your parenting methods.  

I'm discussing your pretty apparent plans to create a hassle for others just to prove an obsure point.  I'm just discussing the thread topic.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Samson said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> communicate with your spawn, issue solved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, Samson.  Where the hell do you get off even expecting that poor, underpaid, downtrodden teacher to show up to school at all?  You and your kid ought to handle this whole education thing yourselves without expecting any input from those poor teachers, y'damned slavedriver.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can I keep the district's school tax if I "handle this whole education thing" myself?
Click to expand...


Absolutely not, you selfish bastard.  Don't you know that these Ghandis-with-blackboard-erasers are national heroes, and we should pay them just for being spiffy enough to wear the title of teacher?  Like education is some sort of real job, where one can expect work for salary, or something.


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I suppose I could write a thread about how I've encouraged SJ over the past 16 years. You want me to do that? I'll tell you what: Begin a thread about your teenager, and we'll compare notes.
> 
> And I agree: there are parents that would love to micromanage educators. If I had thought that asking for One graded paper/week/subject was going to be such a big hairy deal, I probably would have begun by asking that I get _one every day_. Then I suppose my once/week policy would seem more reasonable?
> 
> In reality, I expect these teachers have had enough fire lit under them to last the remainder of the Semester, and I won't need to remind them again that they're being very closely scrutinized.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I were one of your child's teachers, I would tell you that if you would like to review your child's work in depth, you can come in to meet with me every Thursday afternoon at 3:30pm.  We could go over the work face to face and discuss the issue.  And I would encourage all of my colleagues to do the same.
> 
> I'd put the onus on you to prove to me that your child's education was important enough an issue that you would spend 3-6 hours per week of your time coming to the school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xoti, would you REALLY want me to show up every week _after school_ to spend an hour or so browbeating you (e.g *is this the ONLY WAY this can be taught? Why'd you correct this, but not this? Tell me a little more about how this relates to the curriculum?*), adding more time to your already long, stressful day......
> 
> Or would you like to simply grade a homework assignment?
Click to expand...


Yes I would want you to show up...because the question that you posed would never be answered by me just sending the paper home with you...and eventually, you would want to ask me those questions.

I would want to ensure for myself that you were not just taking the papers that I sent home with your child and chucking them in the garbage.  I would want to ensure that you were doing _YOUR _job as a parent, just as you were wanting to ensure that I was doing my job as a teacher.


----------



## boedicca

Samson said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> communicate with your spawn, issue solved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, Samson.  Where the hell do you get off even expecting that poor, underpaid, downtrodden teacher to show up to school at all?  You and your kid ought to handle this whole education thing yourselves without expecting any input from those poor teachers, y'damned slavedriver.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can I keep the district's school tax if I "handle this whole education thing" myself?
Click to expand...




That's what the unions fear most.

Just sayin'.


----------



## xotoxi

Cecilie1200 said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I suppose I could write a thread about how I've encouraged SJ over the past 16 years. You want me to do that? I'll tell you what: Begin a thread about your teenager, and we'll compare notes.
> 
> And I agree: there are parents that would love to micromanage educators. If I had thought that asking for One graded paper/week/subject was going to be such a big hairy deal, I probably would have begun by asking that I get _one every day_. Then I suppose my once/week policy would seem more reasonable?
> 
> In reality, I expect these teachers have had enough fire lit under them to last the remainder of the Semester, and I won't need to remind them again that they're being very closely scrutinized.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I were one of your child's teachers, I would tell you that if you would like to review your child's work in depth, you can come in to meet with me every Thursday afternoon at 3:30pm.  We could go over the work face to face and discuss the issue.  And I would encourage all of my colleagues to do the same.
> 
> I'd put the onus on you to prove to me that your child's education was important enough an issue that you would spend 3-6 hours per week of your time coming to the school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, yeah, right.  These people are having trouble with "send home a paper with a grade written on it once a week", and you really think they're going to be able to manage an entire weekly meeting?  Did you sustain a head injury recently?
Click to expand...


No head injury here.

I'm just telling you what I would do.  If someone is going to create extra work for me, I will create extra work for them...just to make sure we are all on the same page.


----------



## Ravi

Cecilie1200 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, Samson.  Where the hell do you get off even expecting that poor, underpaid, downtrodden teacher to show up to school at all?  You and your kid ought to handle this whole education thing yourselves without expecting any input from those poor teachers, y'damned slavedriver.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can I keep the district's school tax if I "handle this whole education thing" myself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely not, you selfish bastard.  Don't you know that these Ghandis-with-blackboard-erasers are national heroes, and we should pay them just for being spiffy enough to wear the title of teacher?  Like education is some sort of real job, where one can expect work for salary, or something.
Click to expand...

What a bitch you are.


----------



## topspin

I didn't get to keep my tax dollars, my kids went to 12 yrs of private school.
 I think teenage years are a good time to start teaching accountability, they are going to want to drive eventually. This extra effort from the teacher seems more appropriate for a younger kids, withhold something of value from the kid and you'll see improved performance. IMO


----------



## Foxfyre

Cecilie1200 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> First: he wanted to know what a "graded paper" was?
> 
> This immediately set me off, so I explained to a HS Principal what was a graded paper.
> 
> Second: he didn't like my "tone."
> 
> I told him I didn't like his tone either.
> 
> Third he began with the list of excuses: classes meeting only two or three days per week, projects not being done for several weeks, the curriculum....yada, yada, yada.....I interrupted to say none of these excuses held any water, but he said, "Please don't interrupt, let me finish."
> 
> So I let him babble on, then said I didn't care about whether they met ONE, TWO, THREE, Four, or FIVE Days a week, I wanted to see some measure of learning on a weekly basis in each subject....
> 
> Then he interrupted ME!
> 
> I told him that he would please allow ME to finish, and continued to explain that it was embarrassing for me to review what I considered "Teaching 101" with him, but asked, "You do realize that parents are interested in what their kids are doing in school, right?"
> 
> He didn't answer, just stared at me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You probably already know this, but with that kind of attitude from adminsitration, I would keep a close eye on things.  This guy may try to punish you for your impudence through your kids.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If he does, he wins the award for Least Perceptive Judge of Character for this decade.  It doesn't take a genius to figure out that Samson's NOT the person to fuck with in that way.
Click to expand...


There are sadists who make it into the education system, however.  They make lousy educators but they can make a kid's life a living hell.  Such are generally cowards who don't confront the parents but do take it out on the kids.

With two kids, both of which now have better than bachelor's degrees, the kids knew better than to complain to me about how 'tough' or 'unreasonable' Mr. or Miss so  and so was because they knew I would take the teacher's side every time.  But twice, and only twice during the time of their formal education did I have to intervene on their behalf when they were under assault from an inappropriate or sadistic teacher.

And I would think being confronted by a genuinely concerned parent such as Samson could easily trigger such a punative streak in such an educator.


----------



## AllieBaba

xotoxi said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I were one of your child's teachers, I would tell you that if you would like to review your child's work in depth, you can come in to meet with me every Thursday afternoon at 3:30pm.  We could go over the work face to face and discuss the issue.  And I would encourage all of my colleagues to do the same.
> 
> I'd put the onus on you to prove to me that your child's education was important enough an issue that you would spend 3-6 hours per week of your time coming to the school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, yeah, right.  These people are having trouble with "send home a paper with a grade written on it once a week", and you really think they're going to be able to manage an entire weekly meeting?  Did you sustain a head injury recently?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No head injury here.
> 
> I'm just telling you what I would do.  If someone is going to create extra work for me, I will create extra work for them...just to make sure we are all on the same page.
Click to expand...


That's ridiculous. The attitude of "punish the parents if they question the system" is 3/4 of what is wrong with our system. "don't dare question the teachers or suffer the consequences!" How obnoxious.

If a parent wants to see what his kid is doing, he has that right. That's part of parenting, and teachers cry big crocodile tears when they think parents aren't "engaged". So what's with the attitude that if they're engaged it has to be on the teacher's terms, and it has to hurt?


----------



## syrenn

All of this is why i have NO FAITH in the public school system.


----------



## Cecilie1200

AllieBaba said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, yeah, right.  These people are having trouble with "send home a paper with a grade written on it once a week", and you really think they're going to be able to manage an entire weekly meeting?  Did you sustain a head injury recently?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No head injury here.
> 
> I'm just telling you what I would do.  If someone is going to create extra work for me, I will create extra work for them...just to make sure we are all on the same page.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's ridiculous. The attitude of "punish the parents if they question the system" is 3/4 of what is wrong with our system. "don't dare question the teachers or suffer the consequences!" How obnoxious.
> 
> If a parent wants to see what his kid is doing, he has that right. That's part of parenting, and teachers cry big crocodile tears when they think parents aren't "engaged". So what's with the attitude that if they're engaged it has to be on the teacher's terms, and it has to hurt?
Click to expand...


When the teachers say "engaged", what they MEAN is "doing what I want them to do to make my life easier".  Show up when I want to deal with you, donate the things I want you to spend money on, and vote for the bond issues I like.  Oh, and tell your kids to agree with everything I say.


----------



## Annie

Ravi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???
> 
> 
> 
> It's the teachers fault your 10th grader is a fuck up?
> 
> Interesting.
Click to expand...


Actually, since his 10th grader is or should be on an IEP, he has every right to know what is going on. It's his duty to do so. 

On the other hand, I feel like he's generalizing in a way that isn't fair to teachers in general education classes, but that is my take.


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I think you are.
> 
> When I taught full time I had 150 students and gave 25 academic lectures or classes a week.  Do you have any idea how much prep work that demanded of me?
> 
> I didn't have time to send parents reports every week.
> 
> I really didn't have enough time to give the students the individual attention they often needed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I appreciate the POV.
> 
> Yes, I know exactly how much prep work that demanded, I've done it too.
> 
> However, if you don't measure whether or not your prep/lectures are effective then its a waste of time, and if parents want it, then why wouldn't you make it a priority?
Click to expand...


For your other children, assuming they are not limited in any way, should the teacher construct lessons and assessments towards turning out the grades you demand or using them to actually measure what the children have mastered? It would be great if all lessons lent themselves to scantrons, but they don't.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Foxfyre said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> You probably already know this, but with that kind of attitude from adminsitration, I would keep a close eye on things.  This guy may try to punish you for your impudence through your kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If he does, he wins the award for Least Perceptive Judge of Character for this decade.  It doesn't take a genius to figure out that Samson's NOT the person to fuck with in that way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are sadists who make it into the education system, however.  They make lousy educators but they can make a kid's life a living hell.  Such are generally cowards who don't confront the parents but do take it out on the kids.
> 
> With two kids, both of which now have better than bachelor's degrees, the kids knew better than to complain to me about how 'tough' or 'unreasonable' Mr. or Miss so  and so was because they knew I would take the teacher's side every time.  But twice, and only twice during the time of their formal education did I have to intervene on their behalf when they were under assault from an inappropriate or sadistic teacher.
> 
> And I would think being confronted by a genuinely concerned parent such as Samson could easily trigger such a punative streak in such an educator.
Click to expand...


Yeah, but after what just happened, it would take a masochist - or an idiot - to ask for more.


----------



## AllieBaba

Scantrons?

That's a new word for me.


----------



## Annie

Foxfyre said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I think you are.
> 
> When I taught full time I had 150 students and gave 25 academic lectures or classes a week.  Do you have any idea how much prep work that demanded of me?
> 
> I didn't have time to send parents reports every week.
> 
> I really didn't have enough time to give the students the individual attention they often needed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well that is unfortunate.  But having received an excellent education through highschool myself, all the classes were 30 or more kids, and there were six periods every day and none of them were study hall.  Every teacher taught at least five periods.  And quizzes and tests and occasional assigned papers were a regular part of it and they were graded and returned to us usually the next door or at most a few days.  Parent/teacher conferences were regularly scheduled two or three times a year and teachers did have time for kids who had questions after class.
> 
> So how did my teachers manage?  Or my kids' teachers?
> 
> Now admittedly there was a strictly enforced dress code, conduct expectations, etc. and any kid who didn't accommodate those was bounced out immediately.  And the graduation rate was still in the high 90 percentile.
> 
> So it can be done.  But it does require a different way of thinking than how school these days is accomplished.
Click to expand...


It sounds like you attended one of those schools, where there are no LD kids. All are testing within average. Doesn't happen in public schools or even most parochial schools.


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I think you are.
> 
> When I taught full time I had 150 students and gave 25 academic lectures or classes a week.  Do you have any idea how much prep work that demanded of me?
> 
> I didn't have time to send parents reports every week.
> 
> I really didn't have enough time to give the students the individual attention they often needed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I appreciate the POV.
> 
> Yes, I know exactly how much prep work that demanded, I've done it too.
> 
> However, if you don't measure whether or not your prep/lectures are effective then its a waste of time, and if parents want it, then why wouldn't you make it a priority?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For your other children, assuming they are not limited in any way, should the teacher construct lessons and assessments towards turning out the grades you demand or using them to actually measure what the children have mastered? It would be great if all lessons lent themselves to scantrons, but they don't.
Click to expand...


No?

Why not?


----------



## Samson

AllieBaba said:


> Scantrons?
> 
> That's a new word for me.



Scantrons are the multiple choice answer sheets that are the basis of grading the SAT, ACT, and most State Achievement tests, as well as many college exams.

Remember to completely "bubble-in" your choice.

It takes minutes to grade hundreds of scantron answer sheets.


----------



## Samson

Cecilie1200 said:


> I'm not interested in 30 apocryphal parents with 30 apocryphal requests.  .



This was my prepared statement should anyone have brought up the issue: I really couldn't give a shit about a hypothetical 30, 31, 32, or 175 other parents.

Either respond to MY complaint, or don't.

If you don't, then explain to the District Superintendent, and the Board of Education why my expectation is unreasonable.


----------



## Samson

boedicca said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, Samson.  Where the hell do you get off even expecting that poor, underpaid, downtrodden teacher to show up to school at all?  You and your kid ought to handle this whole education thing yourselves without expecting any input from those poor teachers, y'damned slavedriver.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can I keep the district's school tax if I "handle this whole education thing" myself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what the unions fear most.
> 
> Just sayin'.
Click to expand...


Not just unions.

The entire Educational Bureaucracy.

The internet offers a Virtual High School Curriculum, free.

I asked SJ if he'd like to do it (registration deadline was 9/24), but he prefers the social intercourse of traditional HS.


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Samson's goal: create a bureaucratic nightmare for the administration.
> 
> He doesn't really care about "the slaves" education.  I haven't even heard him mention a thing about what he will do if the slaves grades are poor and what he will do to help the slave do better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the fact that my kid is attending the school is just a coincidence. My hobby is creating bureaucratic nightmares for random public schools, and I just threw a dart at a map and happened to hit this one.
> 
> Again, if you'd like to compare your parenting methods with mine, I'd be happy to: Begin a thread about your teenager, and I'll be happy to jump in!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't have a teenager.  And I'm not really discussing your parenting methods.
> 
> I'm discussing your pretty apparent plans to create a hassle for others just to prove an obsure point.  I'm just discussing the thread topic.
Click to expand...


meh....I thought you said, "I haven't even heard him mention a thing about what he will do if the slaves grades are poor."

The thread isn't about the slaves grades, which are ok.

And, I suppose that any point can be "obsure" if you've never had any experience with it.


----------



## saveliberty

In the private school my kids attended, there was a log book with daily homework assignments listed in it.  You were supposed to sign it, so the school knew that you were aware of the homework.

One of the big complaints you hear form teahcers is that parents are not involved enough in their children's education.  Interesting that when you actually show an interest they are threatened.  At the end of the day you can realistically hold your kids responsible, but probably not the teachers.  Too bad. 

I also notice public schools are less helpful after the final student count for funding.


----------



## Samson

saveliberty said:


> In the private school my kids attended, there was a log book with daily homework assignments listed in it.  You were supposed to sign it, so the school knew that you were aware of the homework.
> 
> One of the big complaints you hear form teahcers is that parents are not involved enough in their children's education.  Interesting that when you actually show an interest they are threatened.  At the end of the day you can realistically hold your kids responsible, but probably not the teachers.  Too bad.
> 
> _*I also notice public schools are less helpful after the final student count for funding*_.



This isn't coincidence, and it usually happens in late October.

So, if you wanna raise an issue, concern, or complaint, you must hit the ground running when the school year begins. Of course, there's always the usual excuse for not having their shit together throughout September: "School has just begun, yada, yada..." like its the first year scholl has EVER started!!


----------



## Foxfyre

Annie said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I think you are.
> 
> When I taught full time I had 150 students and gave 25 academic lectures or classes a week.  Do you have any idea how much prep work that demanded of me?
> 
> I didn't have time to send parents reports every week.
> 
> I really didn't have enough time to give the students the individual attention they often needed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that is unfortunate.  But having received an excellent education through highschool myself, all the classes were 30 or more kids, and there were six periods every day and none of them were study hall.  Every teacher taught at least five periods.  And quizzes and tests and occasional assigned papers were a regular part of it and they were graded and returned to us usually the next door or at most a few days.  Parent/teacher conferences were regularly scheduled two or three times a year and teachers did have time for kids who had questions after class.
> 
> So how did my teachers manage?  Or my kids' teachers?
> 
> Now admittedly there was a strictly enforced dress code, conduct expectations, etc. and any kid who didn't accommodate those was bounced out immediately.  And the graduation rate was still in the high 90 percentile.
> 
> So it can be done.  But it does require a different way of thinking than how school these days is accomplished.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It sounds like you attended one of those schools, where there are no LD kids. All are testing within average. Doesn't happen in public schools or even most parochial schools.
Click to expand...


No, it was a public school BEFORE teachers unions and before the time that kids were deemed to have rights, and before kids were diagnosed with ADD of AHDD.  The schools were run by principals and teachers, aided and abetted by parents, for all the kids in the area.   The principals and teachers set the rules and the kids had no choice but to follow them.  The parents backed up the teachers, and the lawyers or ACLU were not involved in that process.

Now this was small town America.  There were no private schools, no charter schools, and, to the best of my knowledge, no home schooled kids.  All the kids went to the public school and it was excellent.  If a kid was slow, the parents urged the parents to work harder with him/her at home or hire a tutor.  There were no special ed classes.  And there were no social promotions.  You didn't make the grade, you got held back.  And we still enjoyed that high 90 percentile graduation rate.


----------



## Samson

Foxfyre said:


> And we still enjoyed that high 90 percentile graduation rate.



What year did US Public Schools have a 90% graduation rate?

Link?


----------



## Foxfyre

Samson said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> And we still enjoyed that high 90 percentile graduation rate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What year did US Public Schools have a 90% graduation rate?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


I don't know about the U.S. Public Schools overall.  But at Lovington High we did back then.  Before your time, almost surely.  It was that experience, however, that convinced me that communities could build and operate public schools that did an excellent job of educating the children.

And I am convinced that if we could wrestle the schools away from the Federal government and all its regulations and meddling, eliminated the teachers unions, at least beyond the local level, get the ACLU and lawyers out of it, and return those schools to the local community, in many if not most places, we would see those excellent schools again.


----------



## Samson

Foxfyre said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> And we still enjoyed that high 90 percentile graduation rate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What year did US Public Schools have a 90% graduation rate?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know about the U.S. Public Schools overall.  But at Lovington High we did back then.  Before your time, almost surely.  It was that experience, however, that convinced me that communities could build and operate public schools that did an excellent job of educating the children.
> 
> And I am convinced that if we could wrestle the schools away from the Federal government and all its regulations and meddling, eliminated the teachers unions, at least beyond the local level, get the ACLU and lawyers out of it, and return those schools to the local community, in many if not most places, we would see those excellent schools again.
Click to expand...


What year was "back then?"


----------



## saveliberty

I may have mentioned elsewhere, this is my middle daughter's first year of teaching.  Her biggest observation:  There are a substantial number of teachers who whine.


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> The thread isn't about the slaves grades, which are ok.



I know...the thread is about you having fun creating a ruckus just for your amusement.

Sort of like trolling.


----------



## xotoxi

Just wondering, Sam...if you were to get an assignment every week from every teacher for the year...what would you do with them?

What is your plan?


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> Just wondering, Sam...if you were to get an assignment every week from every teacher for the year...what would you do with them?
> 
> What is your plan?



There are two reasons ALL parents need to see graded papers:

1. To see how they can help the student improve
2. To measure whether or not whatever parents are doing is working.

Since the beginning of school, I have told all the teachers that this is my objective.


----------



## syrenn

saveliberty said:


> I may have mentioned elsewhere, this is my middle daughter's first year of teaching.  Her biggest observation:  There are a substantial number of teachers who whine.




Your daughter hasn't figures out the tenuer mindset yet, or been shown how the union really works.


----------



## syrenn

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just wondering, Sam...if you were to get an assignment every week from every teacher for the year...what would you do with them?
> 
> What is your plan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are two reasons ALL parents need to see graded papers:
> 
> 1. To see how they can help the student improve
> 2. To measure whether or not whatever parents are doing is working.
> 
> Since the beginning of school, I have told all the teachers that this is my objective.
Click to expand...



This was the sequence i know.

1-kid does assignment and turns it in.
2 -teacher grades assignment and gives it to the kid to take home to be _signed._ 
3- kid takes it back to the teacher with parents sig on it and tuners it in.

This is however private school but i cant see this system being all that difficult for public school. Especially they are the ones always complain about not enough parental involvement.


----------



## xotoxi

syrenn said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just wondering, Sam...if you were to get an assignment every week from every teacher for the year...what would you do with them?
> 
> What is your plan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are two reasons ALL parents need to see graded papers:
> 
> 1. To see how they can help the student improve
> 2. To measure whether or not whatever parents are doing is working.
> 
> Since the beginning of school, I have told all the teachers that this is my objective.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This was the sequence i know.
> 
> 1-kid does assignment and turns it in.
> 2 -teacher grades assignment and gives it to the kid to take home to be _signed._
> 3- kid takes it back to the teacher with parents sig on it and tuners it in.
> 
> This is however private school but i cant see this system being all that difficult for public school. Especially they are the ones always complain about not enough parental involvement.
Click to expand...


4.  The teacher notarizes the signed paper and returns it to the parent through certified mail.


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just wondering, Sam...if you were to get an assignment every week from every teacher for the year...what would you do with them?
> 
> What is your plan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are two reasons ALL parents need to see graded papers:
> 
> 1. To see how they can help the student improve
> 2. To measure whether or not whatever parents are doing is working.
> 
> Since the beginning of school, I have told all the teachers that this is my objective.
Click to expand...


I thought you wanted to see the papers so that you could browbeat the teachers by asking them: 

1.  Is this the ONLY WAY this can be taught? 
2.  Why'd you  correct this, but not this? 
3.  Tell me a little more about how this relates  to the curriculum?


----------



## Ravi

It cracks me up that a tenth grader would have to get his parent to sign that said parent looked at the kid's assignment.

I can see this in elementary school, but high school?

Sometimes it is best to let your children *ahem* grow up and take responsibility for their own actions.


----------



## del

Ravi said:


> It cracks me up that a tenth grader would have to get his parent to sign that said parent looked at the kid's assignment.
> 
> I can see this in elementary school, but high school?
> 
> Sometimes it is best to let your children *ahem* grow up and take responsibility for their own actions.



how do you think samson will do on his kid's first job interview?


----------



## xotoxi

del said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> It cracks me up that a tenth grader would have to get his parent to sign that said parent looked at the kid's assignment.
> 
> I can see this in elementary school, but high school?
> 
> Sometimes it is best to let your children *ahem* grow up and take responsibility for their own actions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how do you think samson will do on his kid's first job interview?
Click to expand...


He'll probably file some forms with the better business bureau just to make it difficult with administration.


----------



## Foxfyre

Well, Samson doesn't need me to defend him, but I have been hands on involved with the schools sufficiently to know that parental involvement can make all the difference in whether the kids are actually educated.  Samson obviously takes his role as dad seriously and the fact that he wants to know whether his kids are being educated is commendable and not something that should automatically generate criticism.


----------



## Ravi

del said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> It cracks me up that a tenth grader would have to get his parent to sign that said parent looked at the kid's assignment.
> 
> I can see this in elementary school, but high school?
> 
> Sometimes it is best to let your children *ahem* grow up and take responsibility for their own actions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how do you think samson will do on his kid's first job interview?
Click to expand...

Helicopter outside the window.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

What is the problem grading papers?
We used to switch  with   the other students and grade each others as we went over the test or quiz, then they would be handed up to be recorded ,then handed back to be brought home, so you could be  beaten.


----------



## Samson

del said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> It cracks me up that a tenth grader would have to get his parent to sign that said parent looked at the kid's assignment.
> 
> I can see this in elementary school, but high school?
> 
> Sometimes it is best to let your children *ahem* grow up and take responsibility for their own actions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how do you think samson will do on his kid's first job interview?
Click to expand...


That reminds me: I need to start bringing donuts down to the Marine Recuiter's office.


----------



## Samson

syrenn said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just wondering, Sam...if you were to get an assignment every week from every teacher for the year...what would you do with them?
> 
> What is your plan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are two reasons ALL parents need to see graded papers:
> 
> 1. To see how they can help the student improve
> 2. To measure whether or not whatever parents are doing is working.
> 
> Since the beginning of school, I have told all the teachers that this is my objective.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This was the sequence i know.
> 
> 1-kid does assignment and turns it in.
> 2 -teacher grades assignment and gives it to the kid to take home to be _signed._
> 3- kid takes it back to the teacher with parents sig on it and tuners it in.
> 
> This is however private school but i cant see this system being all that difficult for public school. Especially they are the ones always complain about not enough parental involvement.
Click to expand...


This is exactly what I did as a teacher in public school.


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> It cracks me up that a tenth grader would have to get his parent to sign that said parent looked at the kid's assignment.
> 
> I can see this in elementary school, but high school?
> 
> Sometimes it is best to let your children *ahem* grow up and take responsibility for their own actions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how do you think samson will do on his kid's first job interview?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That reminds me: I need to start bringing donuts down to the Marine Recuiter's office.
Click to expand...


No.  You need to start bringin' some donuts HERE!


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> del said:
> 
> 
> 
> how do you think samson will do on his kid's first job interview?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That reminds me: I need to start bringing donuts down to the Marine Recuiter's office.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.  You need to start bringin' some donuts HERE!
Click to expand...



Here you are, Homer:


----------



## Samson

saveliberty said:


> I may have mentioned elsewhere, this is my middle daughter's first year of teaching.  Her biggest observation:  There are a substantial number of teachers who whine.




*YES*


This is particularly poingnant when you realise that most of them are paid as well, or better, than an Lt serving in A-stan.


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just wondering, Sam...if you were to get an assignment every week from every teacher for the year...what would you do with them?
> 
> What is your plan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are two reasons ALL parents need to see graded papers:
> 
> 1. To see how they can help the student improve
> 2. To measure whether or not whatever parents are doing is working.
> 
> Since the beginning of school, I have told all the teachers that this is my objective.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought you wanted to see the papers so that you could browbeat the teachers by asking them:
> 
> 1.  Is this the ONLY WAY this can be taught?
> 2.  Why'd you  correct this, but not this?
> 3.  Tell me a little more about how this relates  to the curriculum?
Click to expand...


No, I'm saving that to do if they ever ask me to meet with them after school at 3:30 PM.


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are two reasons ALL parents need to see graded papers:
> 
> 1. To see how they can help the student improve
> 2. To measure whether or not whatever parents are doing is working.
> 
> Since the beginning of school, I have told all the teachers that this is my objective.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought you wanted to see the papers so that you could browbeat the teachers by asking them:
> 
> 1.  Is this the ONLY WAY this can be taught?
> 2.  Why'd you  correct this, but not this?
> 3.  Tell me a little more about how this relates  to the curriculum?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I'm saving that to do if they ever ask me to meet with them after school at 3:30 PM.
Click to expand...


BRING IT!

That's what I do for patients that want me to fill out disability forms and insurance forms, etc.

I bring them in and let them sit there watching me fill out their forms.


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought you wanted to see the papers so that you could browbeat the teachers by asking them:
> 
> 1.  Is this the ONLY WAY this can be taught?
> 2.  Why'd you  correct this, but not this?
> 3.  Tell me a little more about how this relates  to the curriculum?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I'm saving that to do if they ever ask me to meet with them after school at 3:30 PM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> BRING IT!
> 
> That's what I do for patients that want me to fill out disability forms and insurance forms, etc.
> 
> I bring them in and let them sit there watching me fill out their forms.
Click to expand...


The difference being that _you get paid for it_.

The teacher doesn't.


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I appreciate the POV.
> 
> Yes, I know exactly how much prep work that demanded, I've done it too.
> 
> However, if you don't measure whether or not your prep/lectures are effective then its a waste of time, and if parents want it, then why wouldn't you make it a priority?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For your other children, assuming they are not limited in any way, should the teacher construct lessons and assessments towards turning out the grades you demand or using them to actually measure what the children have mastered? It would be great if all lessons lent themselves to scantrons, but they don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No?
> 
> Why not?
Click to expand...


In the social studies, with which I'm most familiar, by middle school one is trying to teach the underlying philosophy behind government. One is trying to teach comparative religions. One is trying to teach the differences between parliamentary systems vs authoritarian systems. In other words, a combination of compare and contrast, reasonable arguments of why one considers A superior to B, etc. is the norm. Rote isn't the most effective way to teach, nor are there absolutes. 

Certainly vocabulary, dates, significant figures can be used in objective questions, but the core learning is not only subjective in nature, it's imperative to developing higher order thinking.


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> For your other children, assuming they are not limited in any way, should the teacher construct lessons and assessments towards turning out the grades you demand or using them to actually measure what the children have mastered? It would be great if all lessons lent themselves to scantrons, but they don't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No?
> 
> Why not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In the social studies, with which I'm most familiar, by middle school one is trying to teach the underlying philosophy behind government. One is trying to teach comparative religions. One is trying to teach the differences between parliamentary systems vs authoritarian systems. In other words, a combination of compare and contrast, reasonable arguments of why one considers A superior to B, etc. is the norm. Rote isn't the most effective way to teach, nor are there absolutes.
> 
> Certainly vocabulary, dates, significant figures can be used in objective questions, but the core learning is not only subjective in nature, it's imperative to developing higher order thinking.
Click to expand...


So, you're saying the SAT and the LSAT, and the GMAT, all of which are pre-graduate and post gradate admissions tests graded with scantrons do not contain higher order thinking questions?


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> No?
> 
> Why not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the social studies, with which I'm most familiar, by middle school one is trying to teach the underlying philosophy behind government. One is trying to teach comparative religions. One is trying to teach the differences between parliamentary systems vs authoritarian systems. In other words, a combination of compare and contrast, reasonable arguments of why one considers A superior to B, etc. is the norm. Rote isn't the most effective way to teach, nor are there absolutes.
> 
> Certainly vocabulary, dates, significant figures can be used in objective questions, but the core learning is not only subjective in nature, it's imperative to developing higher order thinking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you're saying the SAT and the LSAT, and the GMAT, all of which are pre-graduate and post gradate admissions tests graded with scantrons do not contain higher order thinking questions?
Click to expand...


do they? Or are they a combination of reading comprehension and rote facts within? So, you DO want just teaching to tests? I agree that would be easier for teachers and parents like yourself.


----------



## xotoxi

Annie said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> For your other children, assuming they are not limited in any way, should the teacher construct lessons and assessments towards turning out the grades you demand or using them to actually measure what the children have mastered? It would be great if all lessons lent themselves to scantrons, but they don't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No?
> 
> Why not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In the social studies, with which I'm most familiar, by middle school one is trying to teach the underlying philosophy behind government. One is trying to teach comparative religions. One is trying to teach the differences between parliamentary systems vs authoritarian systems. In other words, a combination of compare and contrast, reasonable arguments of why one considers A superior to B, etc. is the norm. Rote isn't the most effective way to teach, nor are there absolutes.
> 
> Certainly vocabulary, dates, significant figures can be used in objective questions, but the core learning is not only subjective in nature, it's imperative to developing higher order thinking.
Click to expand...


I agree with Annieh.

Not everything can be, or should be, graded on rote memorization and multiple choice.  I think that a lot can be learned from students participating in discussion sessions with their classmates.  That type of learning cannot be graded objectively, but rather subjectively...is the student showing signs that they are thinking.


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> No?
> 
> Why not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the social studies, with which I'm most familiar, by middle school one is trying to teach the underlying philosophy behind government. One is trying to teach comparative religions. One is trying to teach the differences between parliamentary systems vs authoritarian systems. In other words, a combination of compare and contrast, reasonable arguments of why one considers A superior to B, etc. is the norm. Rote isn't the most effective way to teach, nor are there absolutes.
> 
> Certainly vocabulary, dates, significant figures can be used in objective questions, but the core learning is not only subjective in nature, it's imperative to developing higher order thinking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree with Annieh.
> 
> Not everything can be, or should be, graded on rote memorization and multiple choice.  I think that a lot can be learned from students participating in discussion sessions with their classmates.  That type of learning cannot be graded objectively, but rather subjectively...is the student showing signs that they are thinking.
Click to expand...


Of course EVERYTHING cannot be learned ONE WAY.

Who said scantron's should be the only tool to evaluate learning?


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the social studies, with which I'm most familiar, by middle school one is trying to teach the underlying philosophy behind government. One is trying to teach comparative religions. One is trying to teach the differences between parliamentary systems vs authoritarian systems. In other words, a combination of compare and contrast, reasonable arguments of why one considers A superior to B, etc. is the norm. Rote isn't the most effective way to teach, nor are there absolutes.
> 
> Certainly vocabulary, dates, significant figures can be used in objective questions, but the core learning is not only subjective in nature, it's imperative to developing higher order thinking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with Annieh.
> 
> Not everything can be, or should be, graded on rote memorization and multiple choice.  I think that a lot can be learned from students participating in discussion sessions with their classmates.  That type of learning cannot be graded objectively, but rather subjectively...is the student showing signs that they are thinking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course EVERYTHING cannot be learned ONE WAY.
> 
> Who said scantron's should be the only tool to evaluate learning?
Click to expand...


If your child is in a class where the students are discussing literature, and the grade is based on participation, what do you want the teacher to send home?  A videotape of the class?


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the social studies, with which I'm most familiar, by middle school one is trying to teach the underlying philosophy behind government. One is trying to teach comparative religions. One is trying to teach the differences between parliamentary systems vs authoritarian systems. In other words, a combination of compare and contrast, reasonable arguments of why one considers A superior to B, etc. is the norm. Rote isn't the most effective way to teach, nor are there absolutes.
> 
> Certainly vocabulary, dates, significant figures can be used in objective questions, but the core learning is not only subjective in nature, it's imperative to developing higher order thinking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you're saying the SAT and the LSAT, and the GMAT, all of which are pre-graduate and post gradate admissions tests graded with scantrons do not contain higher order thinking questions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> do they? Or are they a combination of reading comprehension and rote facts within? So, you DO want just teaching to tests? I agree that would be easier for teachers and parents like yourself.
Click to expand...


No, I never advocated anything remotely like "JUST teaching to tests."

However, if time simply doesn't permit the use of any other evaluative tool, why the hell not? Isn't it better than nothing?

It takes a few minutes to grade 150 quizzes, and you immediately know which questions are the ones most students missed. You don't see any value it that? During the next class you reteach those specific concepts that didn't get through on the first pass: What could possibly be wrong with this?


----------



## Annie

xotoxi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with Annieh.
> 
> Not everything can be, or should be, graded on rote memorization and multiple choice.  I think that a lot can be learned from students participating in discussion sessions with their classmates.  That type of learning cannot be graded objectively, but rather subjectively...is the student showing signs that they are thinking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course EVERYTHING cannot be learned ONE WAY.
> 
> Who said scantron's should be the only tool to evaluate learning?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If your child is in a class where the students are discussing literature, and the grade is based on participation, what do you want the teacher to send home?  A videotape of the class?
Click to expand...


and if the class is studying the influences of Locke, Rousseau, Hobbes, etc., then annotating the Declaration of Independence using Word or a Smartboard program, how is one to send that home, until the disc is complete? That may well take 3-5 weeks. During the interim, mini lessons are given, but not much for the parents to understand, and certainly not many points.


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you're saying the SAT and the LSAT, and the GMAT, all of which are pre-graduate and post gradate admissions tests graded with scantrons do not contain higher order thinking questions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> do they? Or are they a combination of reading comprehension and rote facts within? So, you DO want just teaching to tests? I agree that would be easier for teachers and parents like yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I never advocated anything remotely like "JUST teaching to tests."
> 
> However, if time simply doesn't permit the use of any other evaluative tool, why the hell not? Isn't it better than nothing?
> 
> It takes a few minutes to grade 150 quizzes, and you immediately know which questions are the ones most students missed. You don't see any value it that? During the next class you reteach those specific concepts that didn't get through on the first pass: What could possibly be wrong with this?
Click to expand...


Wouldn't your child be pissed at you if the teacher graded everyone else in the class on participation, but made your child answer ten questions at the end of class just so there was something tangible to send home.


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with Annieh.
> 
> Not everything can be, or should be, graded on rote memorization and multiple choice.  I think that a lot can be learned from students participating in discussion sessions with their classmates.  That type of learning cannot be graded objectively, but rather subjectively...is the student showing signs that they are thinking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course EVERYTHING cannot be learned ONE WAY.
> 
> Who said scantron's should be the only tool to evaluate learning?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If your child is in a class where the students are discussing literature, and the grade is based on participation, what do you want the teacher to send home?  A videotape of the class?
Click to expand...


"Discussing Literature" is not a measurable teaching objective, and if that's all the lesson plan contains, then don't be surprised when you graduate a bunch of babbling idiots.


----------



## Ravi

Here's how I knew my kids were doing well in school:

They got good grades on their report cards.
They asked for help if they didn't understand something taught.
They could carry on an intelligent conversation.
They aced their standard achievement tests.

It seems to me Samson is not interested in how his child is doing at all, but rather he has a grudge against the school and the school's teachers.


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> ...don't be surprised when you graduate a bunch of babbling idiots.



Like us?


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course EVERYTHING cannot be learned ONE WAY.
> 
> Who said scantron's should be the only tool to evaluate learning?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If your child is in a class where the students are discussing literature, and the grade is based on participation, what do you want the teacher to send home?  A videotape of the class?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and if the class is studying the influences of Locke, Rousseau, Hobbes, etc., then annotating the Declaration of Independence using Word or a Smartboard program, how is one to send that home, until the disc is complete? That may well take 3-5 weeks. *During the interim, mini lessons are given, but not much for the parents to understand, and certainly not many points*.
Click to expand...


"During the interim, mini lessons are given, but not much for the parents to understand, and certainly not many points"

So what? EVALUATE your TEACHING.

You'd rather wait until you've taught 3-5 weeks to determine half the class didn't understand 50% of what you taught concerning the influences of Locke, Rousseau, Hobbes, etc.?

This helps explain rdean.


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...don't be surprised when you graduate a bunch of babbling idiots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like us?
Click to expand...


No, only the admins.

and rdean.


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> "Discussing Literature" is not a measurable teaching objective, and if that's all the lesson plan contains, then don't be surprised when you graduate a bunch of babbling idiots.



Kids that are in classes that are "discussing literature" generally are smart to begin with.  They will not be a babbling idiots no matter what you do.  

And I'm pretty sure that NO class has a lesson plan that contains ONLY "discussing the literature"...but maybe in a given week that is all that it contains.  And during that week, there would be no tangible item for you to review.

Unless your child is made to write an essay detailing their participation for the week.


----------



## Foxfyre

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course EVERYTHING cannot be learned ONE WAY.
> 
> Who said scantron's should be the only tool to evaluate learning?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If your child is in a class where the students are discussing literature, and the grade is based on participation, what do you want the teacher to send home?  A videotape of the class?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Discussing Literature" is not a measurable teaching objective, and if that's all the lesson plan contains, then don't be surprised when you graduate a bunch of babbling idiots.
Click to expand...


Exactly.  In Ninth Grade we read Shakespeare's "Julius Caesar" in English class and we discussed it extensively.  Then we were instructed to write a paper that must be at least eight to ten pages long outlining the universal truths in Julius Caesar and why those were universal truths.  Students who didn't pay attention during the discussion probably didn't do well on that paper.  And the rest of us were required to condense our thinking, actually identify and be able to explain the various components, and organize them into a coherant form.

The discussion was the 'teaching'.  The composition was the evidence that the 'teaching' had been learned and understood.  The teacher was there for students who got stuck or had questions during the week long process of writing that paper.

I don't know how any teacher determines that the kids are actually getting it without some form of testing mechanism.  That was an exercise that I still remember to this day however.  And it inspired me to want to be a writer/researcher.


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...don't be surprised when you graduate a bunch of babbling idiots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like us?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, only the admins.
> 
> and rdean.
Click to expand...


I'm honored that you do not include me in the babbling idiot category.

How about babbling imbicile?


----------



## xotoxi

Foxfyre said:


> Exactly.  In Ninth Grade we read Shakespeare's "Julius Caesar" in English class and we discussed it extensively.  Then we were instructed to write a paper that must be at least eight to ten pages long outlining the universal truths in Julius Caesar and why those were universal truths.  Students who didn't pay attention during the discussion probably didn't do well on that paper.  And the rest of us were required to condense our thinking, actually identify and be able to explain the various components, and organize them into a coherant form.
> 
> The discussion was the 'teaching'.  The composition was the evidence that the 'teaching' had been learned and understood.  The teacher was there for students who got stuck or had questions during the week long process of writing that paper.
> 
> I don't know how any teacher determines that the kids are actually getting it without some form of testing mechanism.  That was an exercise that I still remember to this day however.  And it inspired me to want to be a writer/resercher.



I understand that the composition was the "test" showing evidence of learning.

However, that was not done weekly, correct?  Which is what Samson would like from his child's teachers...weekly graded items.

There are some classes that are structured not to produce weekly graded items...except perhaps for participation.


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like us?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, only the admins.
> 
> and rdean.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm honored that you do not include me in the babbling idiot category.
> 
> How about babbling imbicile?
Click to expand...


How about the having-too-much-rep-to-criticise category?



****We'll keep my comment about admins to ourselves****


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> How about the having-too-much-rep-to-criticise category?



Is that why everyone is so nice to me and never disagrees with me?

It's good to be King!


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> If your child is in a class where the students are discussing literature, and the grade is based on participation, what do you want the teacher to send home?  A videotape of the class?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and if the class is studying the influences of Locke, Rousseau, Hobbes, etc., then annotating the Declaration of Independence using Word or a Smartboard program, how is one to send that home, until the disc is complete? That may well take 3-5 weeks. *During the interim, mini lessons are given, but not much for the parents to understand, and certainly not many points*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "During the interim, mini lessons are given, but not much for the parents to understand, and certainly not many points"
> 
> So what? EVALUATE your TEACHING.
> 
> You'd rather wait until you've taught 3-5 weeks to determine half the class didn't understand 50% of what you taught concerning the influences of Locke, Rousseau, Hobbes, etc.?
> 
> This helps explain rdean.
Click to expand...

No sir, it often means questions as the class is about to leave, such as, "Considering what you know about the middle ages, why do you think that Hobbes thought government should be absolute?" A few days later, "Considering how close in time Locke was writing compared to Hobbes, what do you think accounts for the differences?" 

How many here can answer that off the top of their heads? That's what I mean by would mean little to parents. BTW there are cogent answers for those, which would be addressed in class.


----------



## Foxfyre

xotoxi said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly.  In Ninth Grade we read Shakespeare's "Julius Caesar" in English class and we discussed it extensively.  Then we were instructed to write a paper that must be at least eight to ten pages long outlining the universal truths in Julius Caesar and why those were universal truths.  Students who didn't pay attention during the discussion probably didn't do well on that paper.  And the rest of us were required to condense our thinking, actually identify and be able to explain the various components, and organize them into a coherant form.
> 
> The discussion was the 'teaching'.  The composition was the evidence that the 'teaching' had been learned and understood.  The teacher was there for students who got stuck or had questions during the week long process of writing that paper.
> 
> I don't know how any teacher determines that the kids are actually getting it without some form of testing mechanism.  That was an exercise that I still remember to this day however.  And it inspired me to want to be a writer/resercher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that the composition was the "test" showing evidence of learning.
> 
> However, that was not done weekly, correct?  Which is what Samson would like from his child's teachers...weekly graded items.
> 
> There are some classes that are structured not to produce weekly graded items...except perhaps for participation.
Click to expand...


I don't know.  It has been a LONG time now, but I can't remember a week in highschool that we didn't have either a pop quiz on our homework or that week's lectures or a major scheduled test.  The scheduled tests counted more toward our grades of course than did the pop quizzes, but the quizzes did count.   And knowing they could come at any time kept most of us doing our homework reading assignments, handing in written homework assignments, and paying attention in class.

As somebody suggested, we often just switched papers with a classmate and graded each other's papers as the teacher gave us the answers and then turned in the papers for the grades to be recorded.  That saved the teachers a lot of time but it did keep some kind of accountability in place as to what we were absorbing and remembering.


----------



## xotoxi

Annie said:


> No sir, it often means questions as the class is about to leave, such as, "Considering what you know about the middle ages, why do you think that Hobbes thought government should be absolute?" A few days later, "Considering how close in time Locke was writing compared to Hobbes, what do you think accounts for the differences?"
> 
> How many here can answer that off the top of their heads? That's what I mean by would mean little to parents. BTW there are cogent answers for those, which would be addressed in class.



Just for the record, I would fail your class miserably.


----------



## xotoxi

Foxfyre said:


> As somebody suggested, we often just switched papers with a classmate and graded each other's papers as the teacher gave us the answers and then turned in the papers for the grades to be recorded.



Slavery.


----------



## Foxfyre

xotoxi said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> As somebody suggested, we often just switched papers with a classmate and graded each other's papers as the teacher gave us the answers and then turned in the papers for the grades to be recorded.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slavery.
Click to expand...


LOL.  Yep.  But when I attended public school, the kids had absolutely no rights whatsoever.  Nor expected any.


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> Unless your child is made to write an essay detailing their participation for the week.



What? Teach WRITING??? In English?

Sir, certainly, you jest.

I'd be tickled pink.



xotoxi said:


> There are some classes that are structured not to produce weekly graded items...except perhaps for participation.



Why structure "not to produce weekly graded items?"

Why not structure to produce a SINGLE FUCKING PIECE OF EVIDENCE that SOMETHING was learned during an entire WEEK of learning??

How many professionals have the luxury of not needing to produce a single piece of evidence that they did anything for an entire week, yet they get paid for that week?


----------



## Annie

Foxfyre said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly.  In Ninth Grade we read Shakespeare's "Julius Caesar" in English class and we discussed it extensively.  Then we were instructed to write a paper that must be at least eight to ten pages long outlining the universal truths in Julius Caesar and why those were universal truths.  Students who didn't pay attention during the discussion probably didn't do well on that paper.  And the rest of us were required to condense our thinking, actually identify and be able to explain the various components, and organize them into a coherant form.
> 
> The discussion was the 'teaching'.  The composition was the evidence that the 'teaching' had been learned and understood.  The teacher was there for students who got stuck or had questions during the week long process of writing that paper.
> 
> I don't know how any teacher determines that the kids are actually getting it without some form of testing mechanism.  That was an exercise that I still remember to this day however.  And it inspired me to want to be a writer/resercher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that the composition was the "test" showing evidence of learning.
> 
> However, that was not done weekly, correct?  Which is what Samson would like from his child's teachers...weekly graded items.
> 
> There are some classes that are structured not to produce weekly graded items...except perhaps for participation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know.  It has been a LONG time now, but I can't remember a week in highschool that we didn't have either a pop quiz on our homework or that week's lectures or a major scheduled test.  The scheduled tests counted more toward our grades of course than did the pop quizzes, but the quizzes did count.   And knowing they could come at any time kept most of us doing our homework reading assignments, handing in written homework assignments, and paying attention in class.
> 
> As somebody suggested, we often just switched papers with a classmate and graded each other's papers as the teacher gave us the answers and then turned in the papers for the grades to be recorded.  That saved the teachers a lot of time but it did keep some kind of accountability in place as to what we were absorbing and remembering.
Click to expand...


Actually those are very hard to use. In any case in most schools today, one is forbidden to have another student grade another's paper. 

I stand in awe of really good math teachers, I don't have the skills to teach that. But I will say, that when it comes to assessments, reinforcement, etc., they have it made. There are right and wrong answers, whatever the education departments in universities assert. 

Yes, if I was teaching math, I could send home at least weekly, if not daily assessments of one sort or another. Science, close, but not quite. Hypothesis count, which may be wrong at the onset, but with commentary may be quite viable.


----------



## xotoxi

Annie said:


> Actually those are very hard to use. In any case in most schools today, one is forbidden to have another student grade another's paper.
> 
> I stand in awe of really good math teachers, I don't have the skills to teach that. But I will say, that when it comes to assessments, reinforcement, etc., they have it made. There are right and wrong answers, whatever the education departments in universities assert.
> 
> Yes, if I was teaching math, I could send home at least weekly, if not daily assessments of one sort or another. Science, close, but not quite. Hypothesis count, which may be wrong at the onset, but with commentary may be quite viable.



Sometimes you can get partial credit in math when you are doing really difficult and complex problems...but it's nothing like reading a teen's babbling text.


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course EVERYTHING cannot be learned ONE WAY.
> 
> Who said scantron's should be the only tool to evaluate learning?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If your child is in a class where the students are discussing literature, and the grade is based on participation, what do you want the teacher to send home?  A videotape of the class?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Discussing Literature" is not a measurable teaching objective, and if that's all the lesson plan contains, then don't be surprised when you graduate a bunch of babbling idiots.
Click to expand...


So one is teaching the Civil War in Social Studies and also teaching Across Five Aprils in reading. You think there shouldn't be discussion? I did use exit cards on tying together what they learned from the novel with what they had learned in social studies. You want there 2 minute answers sent home to you? Probably couldn't read their writing, but I know what I've taught and whether or not the class is making the connections. 

You'd rather I use a scantron about deaths during the Civil War?


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless your child is made to write an essay detailing their participation for the week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What? Teach WRITING??? In English?
> 
> Sir, certainly, you jest.
> 
> I'd be tickled pink.
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are some classes that are structured not to produce weekly graded items...except perhaps for participation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why structure "not to produce weekly graded items?"
> 
> Why not structure to produce a SINGLE FUCKING PIECE OF EVIDENCE that SOMETHING was learned during an entire WEEK of learning??
> 
> How many professionals have the luxury of not needing to produce a single piece of evidence that they did anything for an entire week, yet they get paid for that week?
Click to expand...


I'm sure that your child's teachers can arrange this.


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that the composition was the "test" showing evidence of learning.
> 
> However, that was not done weekly, correct?  Which is what Samson would like from his child's teachers...weekly graded items.
> 
> There are some classes that are structured not to produce weekly graded items...except perhaps for participation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know.  It has been a LONG time now, but I can't remember a week in highschool that we didn't have either a pop quiz on our homework or that week's lectures or a major scheduled test.  The scheduled tests counted more toward our grades of course than did the pop quizzes, but the quizzes did count.   And knowing they could come at any time kept most of us doing our homework reading assignments, handing in written homework assignments, and paying attention in class.
> 
> As somebody suggested, we often just switched papers with a classmate and graded each other's papers as the teacher gave us the answers and then turned in the papers for the grades to be recorded.  That saved the teachers a lot of time but it did keep some kind of accountability in place as to what we were absorbing and remembering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually those are very hard to use. In any case in most schools today, one is forbidden to have another student grade another's paper.
> 
> I stand in awe of really good math teachers, I don't have the skills to teach that. But I will say, that when it comes to assessments, reinforcement, etc., they have it made. There are right and wrong answers, whatever the education departments in universities assert.
> 
> Yes, if I was teaching math, I could send home at least weekly, if not daily assessments of one sort or another. Science, close, but not quite. Hypothesis count, which may be wrong at the onset, but with commentary may be quite viable.
Click to expand...


I agree, math is easiest to grade.

And, I also agree that having students grade other's work, on any meaningful level, is a waste of time if you're trying to measure learning.

However, I don't see why an English teacher, at any level, couldn't take 30 minutes out of the entire fucking week to give a goddamn vocabulary quiz, and every third week give a vocabulary test, comprised of the two previous quizzes.

Why the hell is this such a complicated thing? Are Math teachers the only ones imaginative enough to think of ways to frequently, and easily measure their teaching?


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless your child is made to write an essay detailing their participation for the week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What? Teach WRITING??? In English?
> 
> Sir, certainly, you jest.
> 
> I'd be tickled pink.
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are some classes that are structured not to produce weekly graded items...except perhaps for participation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why structure "not to produce weekly graded items?"
> 
> Why not structure to produce a SINGLE FUCKING PIECE OF EVIDENCE that SOMETHING was learned during an entire WEEK of learning??
> 
> How many professionals have the luxury of not needing to produce a single piece of evidence that they did anything for an entire week, yet they get paid for that week?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm sure that your child's teachers can arrange this.
Click to expand...


I'll let you know, this Friday.


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> However, I don't see why an English teacher, at any level, couldn't take 30 minutes out of the entire fucking week to give a goddamn vocabulary quiz, and every third week give a vocabulary test, comprised of the two previous quizzes.



Were you still learning vocab in HS?

Here's a word for ya: REMEDIAL


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> What? Teach WRITING??? In English?
> 
> Sir, certainly, you jest.
> 
> I'd be tickled pink.
> 
> 
> 
> Why structure "not to produce weekly graded items?"
> 
> Why not structure to produce a SINGLE FUCKING PIECE OF EVIDENCE that SOMETHING was learned during an entire WEEK of learning??
> 
> How many professionals have the luxury of not needing to produce a single piece of evidence that they did anything for an entire week, yet they get paid for that week?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure that your child's teachers can arrange this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll let you know, this Friday.
Click to expand...


Suggestion:

Why don't you take a piece of paper and write on the top of it "Dad, this is what I learned in class this week..."?

You give it to your kid, he brings it to school for the teacher to mimeograph, and then in each class, he needs to write a short (250-500 words) essay as to what he learned in each of his classes that week.  The teacher would read it, and sign it if the child is correct in his assessment.

It could be like extra credit!


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, I don't see why an English teacher, at any level, couldn't take 30 minutes out of the entire fucking week to give a goddamn vocabulary quiz, and every third week give a vocabulary test, comprised of the two previous quizzes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Were you still learning vocab in HS?
> 
> Here's a word for ya: REMEDIAL
Click to expand...


Really?

Have you seen the SAT test?



> The SAT Reasoning Test is a long examination (three hours and forty-five minutes) and has three main divisions:
> 
> Math,
> Reading and
> Writing.
> There are 10 sections in all - three for each division, and one 'equating' section. The equating section is used to assess questions for use in future tests. (It can be in any of the three areas and does not count toward the score).
> 
> Apart from a short essay and ten out of the 54 math questions, the questions are all five-answer multiple-choice. Each of the divisions has a maximum score of 800, giving a maximum overall score of 2400




Example:

7. inchoate 

   a) loose 

   b) implicit 

   c) chaotic 

   d) incomplete   

   e) beginner


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure that your child's teachers can arrange this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll let you know, this Friday.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Suggestion:
> 
> Why don't you take a piece of paper and write on the top of it "Dad, this is what I learned in class this week..."?
> 
> You give it to your kid, he brings it to school for the teacher to mimeograph, and then in each class, he needs to write a short (250-500 words) essay as to what he learned in each of his classes that week.  The teacher would read it, and sign it if the child is correct in his assessment.
> 
> It could be like extra credit!
Click to expand...


Not a bad idea. Thanks, this will be "Plan B"


----------



## chanel

Vocabulary is taught in every class at every level in our HS.  

Samson - my students are required to keep a notebook for my class, and every assignment should be in there.  I check it once a month and encourage them to show it to their folks.  Many of the teachers at our school do the same.  I'm surprised that none of your daughter's teachers do that.  It keeps the kids organized and provides a true portfolio of their work.


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> 7. inchoate



Is that anything like inphillipsexeter or inloomischaffee?


----------



## xotoxi

chanel said:


> Vocabulary is taught in every class at every level in our HS.



Keyboarding class:

ENTER - the big key that you touch with your right pinky which makes all kinds of shit happen.


----------



## Foxfyre

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, I don't see why an English teacher, at any level, couldn't take 30 minutes out of the entire fucking week to give a goddamn vocabulary quiz, and every third week give a vocabulary test, comprised of the two previous quizzes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Were you still learning vocab in HS?
> 
> Here's a word for ya: REMEDIAL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really?
> 
> Have you seen the SAT test?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The SAT Reasoning Test is a long examination (three hours and forty-five minutes) and has three main divisions:
> 
> Math,
> Reading and
> Writing.
> There are 10 sections in all - three for each division, and one 'equating' section. The equating section is used to assess questions for use in future tests. (It can be in any of the three areas and does not count toward the score).
> 
> Apart from a short essay and ten out of the 54 math questions, the questions are all five-answer multiple-choice. Each of the divisions has a maximum score of 800, giving a maximum overall score of 2400
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Example:
> 
> 7. inchoate
> 
> a) loose
> 
> b) implicit
> 
> c) chaotic
> 
> d) incomplete
> 
> e) beginner
Click to expand...


The problem with questions like this is that an abstract complex thinker could accurately see both (d) and (e) as acceptable answers.  That is my ONLY concern with such tests in that they do not allow for more than the rote answer.

I had one really gifted teacher my senior year who recognized that and who allowed us to provide a brief explanation for marking two 'correct' answers on a multiple choice.  If the explanation made sense to her, she gave us credit.  If it was obvious we were just blowing smoke, we got scored two wrong answers for the one.


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> If your child is in a class where the students are discussing literature, and the grade is based on participation, what do you want the teacher to send home?  A videotape of the class?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Discussing Literature" is not a measurable teaching objective, and if that's all the lesson plan contains, then don't be surprised when you graduate a bunch of babbling idiots.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So one is teaching the Civil War in Social Studies and also teaching Across Five Aprils in reading. You think there shouldn't be discussion? I did use exit cards on tying together what they learned from the novel with what they had learned in social studies. You want there 2 minute answers sent home to you? Probably couldn't read their writing, but I know what I've taught and whether or not the class is making the connections.
> 
> You'd rather I use a scantron about deaths during the Civil War?
Click to expand...


I'm going to conclude you're being purposefully obtuse: I've already said several times, including in the post you quoted, that "discussion" is not THE ONLY THING, but PART OF, teaching.

Why is it that you cannot grasp that BOTH discussion AND a quiz is possible? Is it really all that of a completely foreign concept?

Yes, I do want their "2 minute answers" written. Legibly. And GRADED, although I know it would be much easier for you to imagine they've learned anything.


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, I don't see why an English teacher, at any level, couldn't take 30 minutes out of the entire fucking week to give a goddamn vocabulary quiz, and every third week give a vocabulary test, comprised of the two previous quizzes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Were you still learning vocab in HS?
> 
> Here's a word for ya: REMEDIAL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really?
> 
> Have you seen the SAT test?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The SAT Reasoning Test is a long examination (three hours and forty-five minutes) and has three main divisions:
> 
> Math,
> Reading and
> Writing.
> There are 10 sections in all - three for each division, and one 'equating' section. The equating section is used to assess questions for use in future tests. (It can be in any of the three areas and does not count toward the score).
> 
> Apart from a short essay and ten out of the 54 math questions, the questions are all five-answer multiple-choice. Each of the divisions has a maximum score of 800, giving a maximum overall score of 2400
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Example:
> 
> 7. inchoate
> 
> a) loose
> 
> b) implicit
> 
> c) chaotic
> 
> d) incomplete
> 
> e) beginner
Click to expand...


If you want my opinion on the SAT...it's not a good test to test knowledge.  It's a great test to test test-taking.


----------



## RadiomanATL

xotoxi said:


> chanel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Vocabulary is taught in every class at every level in our HS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keyboarding class:
> 
> ENTER - the big key that you touch with your right pinky which makes all kinds of shit happen.
Click to expand...


----------



## del

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Discussing Literature" is not a measurable teaching objective, and if that's all the lesson plan contains, then don't be surprised when you graduate a bunch of babbling idiots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So one is teaching the Civil War in Social Studies and also teaching Across Five Aprils in reading. You think there shouldn't be discussion? I did use exit cards on tying together what they learned from the novel with what they had learned in social studies. You want there 2 minute answers sent home to you? Probably couldn't read their writing, but I know what I've taught and whether or not the class is making the connections.
> 
> You'd rather I use a scantron about deaths during the Civil War?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm going to conclude you're being purposefully obtuse: I've already said several times, including in the post you quoted, that "discussion" is not THE ONLY THING, but PART OF, teaching.
> 
> Why is it that you cannot grasp that BOTH discussion AND a quiz *is* possible? Is it really all that of a completely foreign concept?
> 
> Yes, I do want their "2 minute answers" written. Legibly. And GRADED, although I know it would be much easier for you to imagine they've learned anything.
Click to expand...


shouldn't that be *are*? as in both are possible?

yes, i think it should. 

bring us a note from your english teacher before posting again, please. no wonder kids learn nothing if you're an exmple of those who teach.


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Were you still learning vocab in HS?
> 
> Here's a word for ya: REMEDIAL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?
> 
> Have you seen the SAT test?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The SAT Reasoning Test is a long examination (three hours and forty-five minutes) and has three main divisions:
> 
> Math,
> Reading and
> Writing.
> There are 10 sections in all - three for each division, and one 'equating' section. The equating section is used to assess questions for use in future tests. (It can be in any of the three areas and does not count toward the score).
> 
> Apart from a short essay and ten out of the 54 math questions, the questions are all five-answer multiple-choice. Each of the divisions has a maximum score of 800, giving a maximum overall score of 2400
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Example:
> 
> 7. inchoate
> 
> a) loose
> 
> b) implicit
> 
> c) chaotic
> 
> d) incomplete
> 
> e) beginner
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you want my opinion on the SAT...it's not a good test to test knowledge.  It's a great test to test test-taking.
Click to expand...


Are you on the Acceptance Committee for any University?

Until you are, then your (and my) opinion ain't worth squat.


----------



## Samson

del said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So one is teaching the Civil War in Social Studies and also teaching Across Five Aprils in reading. You think there shouldn't be discussion? I did use exit cards on tying together what they learned from the novel with what they had learned in social studies. You want there 2 minute answers sent home to you? Probably couldn't read their writing, but I know what I've taught and whether or not the class is making the connections.
> 
> You'd rather I use a scantron about deaths during the Civil War?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to conclude you're being purposefully obtuse: I've already said several times, including in the post you quoted, that "discussion" is not THE ONLY THING, but PART OF, teaching.
> 
> Why is it that you cannot grasp that BOTH discussion AND a quiz *is* possible? Is it really all that of a completely foreign concept?
> 
> Yes, I do want their "2 minute answers" written. Legibly. And GRADED, although I know it would be much easier for you to imagine they've learned anything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> shouldn't that be *are*? as in both are possible?
> 
> yes, i think it should.
> 
> bring us a note from your english teacher before posting again, please. no wonder kids learn nothing if you're an exmple of those who teach.
Click to expand...


I'd like to read your post, but I cannot because nothing's capitalized.


----------



## strollingbones

so what happened?


----------



## del

Samson said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to conclude you're being purposefully obtuse: I've already said several times, including in the post you quoted, that "discussion" is not THE ONLY THING, but PART OF, teaching.
> 
> Why is it that you cannot grasp that BOTH discussion AND a quiz *is* possible? Is it really all that of a completely foreign concept?
> 
> Yes, I do want their "2 minute answers" written. Legibly. And GRADED, although I know it would be much easier for you to imagine they've learned anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shouldn't that be *are*? as in both are possible?
> 
> yes, i think it should.
> 
> bring us a note from your english teacher before posting again, please. no wonder kids learn nothing if you're an exmple of those who teach.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'd like to read your post, but I cannot because nothing's capitalized.
Click to expand...


nobody likes a sore loser, son.


----------



## Samson

strollingbones said:


> so what happened?



<<<<sigh>>>>

I'm glad you asked:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/educa...d-to-the-principals-office-7.html#post2784381


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Discussing Literature" is not a measurable teaching objective, and if that's all the lesson plan contains, then don't be surprised when you graduate a bunch of babbling idiots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So one is teaching the Civil War in Social Studies and also teaching Across Five Aprils in reading. You think there shouldn't be discussion? I did use exit cards on tying together what they learned from the novel with what they had learned in social studies. You want there 2 minute answers sent home to you? Probably couldn't read their writing, but I know what I've taught and whether or not the class is making the connections.
> 
> You'd rather I use a scantron about deaths during the Civil War?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm going to conclude you're being purposefully obtuse: I've already said several times, including in the post you quoted, that "discussion" is not THE ONLY THING, but PART OF, teaching.
> 
> Why is it that you cannot grasp that BOTH discussion AND a quiz is possible? Is it really all that of a completely foreign concept?
> 
> Yes, I do want their "2 minute answers" written. Legibly. And GRADED, although I know it would be much easier for you to imagine they've learned anything.
Click to expand...


Actually we are at the point that there isn't a reasonable answer to what you want. Which is in all likelihood what you met up with in schools. Not because of your son's developmental delays, but because of your insistence that all classes be taught as you want. 

I think you are a phenomenal father, I'll lay odds you were a phenomenal teacher in subject matter, but you are unhinged regarding expectations for normal secondary students.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Samson said:


> Began when I arrived and asked if I'd missed signing the Meeting Attendance Sheet.
> 
> The principal chuckled, thinking I was kidding.....
> 
> So I pulled out my own prepared attendance sheet, including a description of my complaint, and the two questions I needed to ask.
> 
> I signed, then began its rotation. Principal said...."um, I thought we'd just have an informal chat.....?"
> 
> I replied, "That was great, but that I needed to record the attendees for MY RECORDS."
> 
> Anyway, I suggest that anyone visiting with public officials begin their meeting this way. It sets a no BS tone that is unmistakable.
> 
> Does anyone care to hear how the rest of the meeting went?



Yes, please.  I am coming into this two weeks behind.


----------



## Annie

JakeStarkey said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Began when I arrived and asked if I'd missed signing the Meeting Attendance Sheet.
> 
> The principal chuckled, thinking I was kidding.....
> 
> So I pulled out my own prepared attendance sheet, including a description of my complaint, and the two questions I needed to ask.
> 
> I signed, then began its rotation. Principal said...."um, I thought we'd just have an informal chat.....?"
> 
> I replied, "That was great, but that I needed to record the attendees for MY RECORDS."
> 
> Anyway, I suggest that anyone visiting with public officials begin their meeting this way. It sets a no BS tone that is unmistakable.
> 
> Does anyone care to hear how the rest of the meeting went?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, please.  I am coming into this two weeks behind.
Click to expand...


You are truly a worthless POS. Both Samson and myself have kids as are bottom line, we disagree on how to evaluate and probably teach. I'm guessing he'd hate for me to teach his children. I could not do what he wants. Yet, I'm really a great teacher, while I wouldn't have taught my own kids, I do wish they had someone as committed as I am.


----------



## AllieBaba

del said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So one is teaching the Civil War in Social Studies and also teaching Across Five Aprils in reading. You think there shouldn't be discussion? I did use exit cards on tying together what they learned from the novel with what they had learned in social studies. You want there 2 minute answers sent home to you? Probably couldn't read their writing, but I know what I've taught and whether or not the class is making the connections.
> 
> You'd rather I use a scantron about deaths during the Civil War?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to conclude you're being purposefully obtuse: I've already said several times, including in the post you quoted, that "discussion" is not THE ONLY THING, but PART OF, teaching.
> 
> Why is it that you cannot grasp that BOTH discussion AND a quiz *is* possible? Is it really all that of a completely foreign concept?
> 
> Yes, I do want their "2 minute answers" written. Legibly. And GRADED, although I know it would be much easier for you to imagine they've learned anything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> shouldn't that be *are*? as in both are possible?
> 
> yes, i think it should.
> 
> bring us a note from your english teacher before posting again, please. no wonder kids learn nothing if you're an exmple of those who teach.
Click to expand...


Er...shouldn't that be an "E" in English?

Bring us a note etc. and so forth....


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So one is teaching the Civil War in Social Studies and also teaching Across Five Aprils in reading. You think there shouldn't be discussion? I did use exit cards on tying together what they learned from the novel with what they had learned in social studies. You want there 2 minute answers sent home to you? Probably couldn't read their writing, but I know what I've taught and whether or not the class is making the connections.
> 
> You'd rather I use a scantron about deaths during the Civil War?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to conclude you're being purposefully obtuse: I've already said several times, including in the post you quoted, that "discussion" is not THE ONLY THING, but PART OF, teaching.
> 
> Why is it that you cannot grasp that BOTH discussion AND a quiz is possible? Is it really all that of a completely foreign concept?
> 
> Yes, I do want their "2 minute answers" written. Legibly. And GRADED, although I know it would be much easier for you to imagine they've learned anything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually we are at the point that there isn't a reasonable answer to what you want. Which is in all likelihood what you met up with in schools. Not because of your son's developmental delays, but because of your insistence that all classes be taught as you want.
> 
> I think you are a phenomenal father, I'll lay odds you were a phenomenal teacher in subject matter, but you are unhinged regarding expectations for normal secondary students.
Click to expand...


Thanks Annie.

What would happen if all parents were as unhinged as me....?....sigh.......the whole damn system would collapse, I suppose


----------



## Annie

I wish it would be easy to converse with you. You want something different, at least now. So I'm saying I've exhausted my ideas. 

Shouldn't be hard to find 'great schools.'

Shouldn't be hard to find 'good schools.'

Shouldn't be hard to find 'adequate schools.'


----------



## saveliberty

I have always thought good students and good teachers can grow and prosper even in a poor district.  That doesn't mean you are going to change the whole culture.


----------



## jillian

Cecilie1200 said:


> blu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> To my way of thinking, if your kid already knows all the relevant vocabulary, then that means they're just reviewing things he's already learned instead of teaching him anything new.  It's not like biology vocabulary - for example - is commonly used in everyday language.  It's technical jargon, for crying out loud, and if the subject matter's new, then it is by God going to have new vocabulary he's never heard or used before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 10th grade bio vocab isn't 'technical jargon', it is generally referred to as 'common knowledge'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If it was "common knowledge", they wouldn't have to teach a class on it in high school.
> 
> Some examples of technical jargon used in 10th grade biology class that one doesn't generally learn in everyday conversation:
> 
> Lysosome
> Endoplasmic reticulum
> Autotroph
> Punnett Square
> Prokaryotes
> Trophic Level
> 
> Would you really like to tell us that you knew the meanings of all of these words when you went into sophomore biology class, and didn't need to be taught what they were?  That you habitually discussed these things on a regular basis?  I sincerely doubt you would know the definitions NOW without looking them up.  Most people who don't work in a related field wouldn't.
Click to expand...


i still remember how to do punnett squares. 

they were fun. 

carry on.


----------



## Samson

I'll see graded papers.

Or I'll begin to sharpen my pen.

Mightier than the sword, ya know.


----------



## saveliberty

Samson said:


> I'll see graded papers.
> 
> Or I'll begin to sharpen my pen.
> 
> Mightier than the sword, ya know.



Ball point?


----------



## Cecilie1200

del said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> It cracks me up that a tenth grader would have to get his parent to sign that said parent looked at the kid's assignment.
> 
> I can see this in elementary school, but high school?
> 
> Sometimes it is best to let your children *ahem* grow up and take responsibility for their own actions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how do you think samson will do on his kid's first job interview?
Click to expand...


I imagine he'll be pretty calm and confident, knowing that he's ensured that his kid is well-educated and ready for it.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course EVERYTHING cannot be learned ONE WAY.
> 
> Who said scantron's should be the only tool to evaluate learning?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If your child is in a class where the students are discussing literature, and the grade is based on participation, what do you want the teacher to send home?  A videotape of the class?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Discussing Literature" is not a measurable teaching objective, and if that's all the lesson plan contains, then don't be surprised when you graduate a bunch of babbling idiots.
Click to expand...


Discussing literature was one of my favorite things to do in school, and I distinctly remember getting quizzes and tests on what we discussed, to demonstrate that we had read the book, were paying attention to the discussion, and had understood the material.  It can be hard in a classroom full of thirty kids for everyone to get a chance to visibly "participate", and hey, some kids are really shy about talking in class.  
Doesn't mean they weren't listening and learning.


----------



## Foxfyre

xotoxi said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly.  In Ninth Grade we read Shakespeare's "Julius Caesar" in English class and we discussed it extensively.  Then we were instructed to write a paper that must be at least eight to ten pages long outlining the universal truths in Julius Caesar and why those were universal truths.  Students who didn't pay attention during the discussion probably didn't do well on that paper.  And the rest of us were required to condense our thinking, actually identify and be able to explain the various components, and organize them into a coherant form.
> 
> The discussion was the 'teaching'.  The composition was the evidence that the 'teaching' had been learned and understood.  The teacher was there for students who got stuck or had questions during the week long process of writing that paper.
> 
> I don't know how any teacher determines that the kids are actually getting it without some form of testing mechanism.  That was an exercise that I still remember to this day however.  And it inspired me to want to be a writer/resercher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that the composition was the "test" showing evidence of learning.
> 
> However, that was not done weekly, correct?  Which is what Samson would like from his child's teachers...weekly graded items.
> 
> There are some classes that are structured not to produce weekly graded items...except perhaps for participation.
Click to expand...


I have six hours of college American History in which half the grade was based on class participation and half on the one exam--the final exam.  I attended the first class and did not attend another until the last day and the final exam.  I aced the final and made a C for the course.  How?  By scanning the text book  (from which the professor never deviated) to re-memorize dates and names and from Highschool history classes in which I did have a graded quiz every week.

Do you think I got my money's worth for the college courses?   I definitely learned the history in Highschool and continue to have a lifetime fascination and appreciation for it.  But I did have a weekly quiz--usually graded by a classmate--but recorded by the teacher--and periodic major written tests that counted for a good deal of my grade.

Maybe every single week is too much to expect, but a few graded homework assignments or tests during the month I do not think is too much to expect from any teacher.


----------



## saveliberty

Holding the parents, student and teachers responsible is not unreasonable.  The reporting period may be up for debate.  Seems to me, that students at risk for a grade below a C should be the reporting priority.


----------



## Annie

saveliberty said:


> Holding the parents, student and teachers responsible is not unreasonable.  The reporting period may be up for debate.  Seems to me, that students at risk for a grade below a C should be the reporting priority.



I agree. Not just below a C, but even those with a C, but clearly capable of doing better. You're correct I believe, the differences between Samson's opinion and my own has more to do with the intervals being written in stone. Assessments such as exit cards, are designed more for the teacher, to make sure if the students missed the 'target goals' that the lesson plans for the next day can be modified. Then a quiz would appear. Since e the students are writing them in the minute or two before leaving and I'm collecting them as they pass, grading for spelling, legibility, would be unfair. With those, I don't care even if they write lists if appropriate. 

My goal as a teacher is for every student to understand the material and earn the highest grade they are capable of. If a 'quiz' has an average of 75%, I did something wrong. The students shouldn't be penalized for it.


----------



## AllieBaba

Almost everybody is capable of doing better!


----------



## Samson

Cecilie1200 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> If your child is in a class where the students are discussing literature, and the grade is based on participation, what do you want the teacher to send home?  A videotape of the class?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Discussing Literature" is not a measurable teaching objective, and if that's all the lesson plan contains, then don't be surprised when you graduate a bunch of babbling idiots.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Discussing literature was one of my favorite things to do in school, and I distinctly remember getting quizzes and tests on what we discussed, to demonstrate that we had read the book, were paying attention to the discussion, and had understood the material.  It can be hard in a classroom full of thirty kids for everyone to get a chance to visibly "participate", and hey, some kids are really shy about talking in class.
> Doesn't mean they weren't listening and learning.
Click to expand...


What you've described is fantastic, and the norm; teacher lead discussion, conclusions, synthesis of other materials, etc.

But as you say, you cannot just freaking say, "OK everyone gets an "A" for the WHOLE WEEK" based only on the discussion. There may be an essay, quiz, test, reading comprehension test, etc., etc.

Of course all this must be organized, then graded by the teacher: Much easier to just sit around all week and play Oprah Winfrey.


----------



## Samson

Foxfyre said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly.  In Ninth Grade we read Shakespeare's "Julius Caesar" in English class and we discussed it extensively.  Then we were instructed to write a paper that must be at least eight to ten pages long outlining the universal truths in Julius Caesar and why those were universal truths.  Students who didn't pay attention during the discussion probably didn't do well on that paper.  And the rest of us were required to condense our thinking, actually identify and be able to explain the various components, and organize them into a coherant form.
> 
> The discussion was the 'teaching'.  The composition was the evidence that the 'teaching' had been learned and understood.  The teacher was there for students who got stuck or had questions during the week long process of writing that paper.
> 
> I don't know how any teacher determines that the kids are actually getting it without some form of testing mechanism.  That was an exercise that I still remember to this day however.  And it inspired me to want to be a writer/resercher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that the composition was the "test" showing evidence of learning.
> 
> However, that was not done weekly, correct?  Which is what Samson would like from his child's teachers...weekly graded items.
> 
> There are some classes that are structured not to produce weekly graded items...except perhaps for participation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have six hours of college American History in which half the grade was based on class participation and half on the one exam--the final exam.  I attended the first class and did not attend another until the last day and the final exam.  I aced the final and made a C for the course.  How?  By scanning the text book  (from which the professor never deviated) to re-memorize dates and names and from Highschool history classes in which I did have a graded quiz every week.
> 
> Do you think I got my money's worth for the college courses?   I definitely learned the history in Highschool and continue to have a lifetime fascination and appreciation for it.  But I did have a weekly quiz--usually graded by a classmate--but recorded by the teacher--and periodic major written tests that counted for a good deal of my grade.
> 
> Maybe every single week is too much to expect, but a few graded homework assignments or tests during the month I do not think is too much to expect from any teacher.
Click to expand...


I'm not comparing what goes on in a public school to what happens at college: Huge Freakin' difference is, if you don't like how you're being graded, (you don't think you're getting your money's worth) then pick up your marbles and go home.

Public School is more like; "If you don't like it, fuck you, we'll get your money whether or not you like what we do with it."


----------



## Foxfyre

saveliberty said:


> I have always thought good students and good teachers can grow and prosper even in a poor district.  That doesn't mean you are going to change the whole culture.



It is a fact that some of the states spending the least per capita on education are producing some of the highest SAT etc. scores.   I was blessed with an excellent education in schools that were not air conditioned, that were miserably drafty on windy winter days, that had rough wood floors, beat up desks, and textbooks reinforced with duct tape.  Washington DC by comparison has some of the finest public school facilities and spends more per capita on education than just about anywhere in the world, yet produces some of the most miserable results.

Wouldn't this suggest that a good education does not depend on how much money is spent on it, but rather on attitudes of educators, parents, and students?

One of the most important things learned in a good management course is that you cannot fix a bad system by changing the people.  And you can't fix bad people by changing the system.

I think there are some really bad teachers out there; yet I know many dedicated, capable, competent educators too.  I think maybe there are a lot of those who post here on USMB.

So I tend to think the problem is more likely to be cultural and systemic.  And I think until we address that, we aren't likely to see things get much better.


----------



## Samson

Foxfyre said:


> I think there are some really bad teachers out there; yet I know many dedicated, capable, competent educators too.



Well?

In your opinion does a good educator share with the parents of the student his or her progress more, or _less_ often?

You think that with teachers under fire, they'd want.... NO... _beg_ to have the greatest chances of looking good.


----------



## JakeStarkey

The problem, overwhelmingly, I am convinced needs to be addressed by parents committed to their kids and their kids' education.  If parents want good education, they will make it happen.  If they want a self-subsidized day care and holding center in place of education, it will continue to happen.


----------



## Annie

JakeStarkey said:


> The problem, overwhelmingly, I am convinced needs to be addressed by parents committed to their kids and their kids' education.  If parents want good education, they will make it happen.  If they want a self-subsidized day care and holding center in place of education, it will continue to happen.



So what are the schools to do with the kids whose parent(s) are working too many hours, don't have the interest or ability to help their children? What of those parents, especially of pre-teens and teens, who cannot make their children go to day care?


----------



## Foxfyre

Samson said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think there are some really bad teachers out there; yet I know many dedicated, capable, competent educators too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well?
> 
> In your opinion does a good educator share with the parents of the student his or her progress more, or _less_ often?
> 
> You think that with teachers under fire, they'd want.... NO... _beg_ to have the greatest chances of looking good.
Click to expand...


Hey I've been pretty much on your side through this entire discussion.  I think a teacher might be forgiven for not sending a graded something home every single week, but I fully agree that if the teacher isn't grading homework and tests and thus giving the kid feedback on what he is or isn't getting from the course, the teacher isn't doing their job.

My parents never asked to see my papers, but I wanted an education anyway.  I sure as heck had those papers if my parents had cared in any way.  (They did see and sign off on my report cards and I guess that was sufficient for them.)


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> [So what are the schools to do with the kids whose parent(s) are working too many hours, don't have the interest or ability to help their children?



These are quite far and few between




Annie said:


> [What of those parents, especially of pre-teens and teens, who cannot make their children go to day care?



Trauancy Law Enforcement: Fine the parents


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem, overwhelmingly, I am convinced needs to be addressed by parents committed to their kids and their kids' education.  If parents want good education, they will make it happen.  If they want a self-subsidized day care and holding center in place of education, it will continue to happen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> [So what are the schools to do with the kids whose parent(s) are working too many hours, don't have the interest or ability to help their children?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *These are quite far and few between*
> 
> 
> What of those parents, especially of pre-teens and teens, who cannot make their children go to day care?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trauancy Law Enforcement: Fine the parents
Click to expand...


Not sure what happened here, but your quoting has attribution to me, I did not make.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Truancy laws and fines for the parents that don't or won't care.


----------



## Foxfyre

Annie said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem, overwhelmingly, I am convinced needs to be addressed by parents committed to their kids and their kids' education.  If parents want good education, they will make it happen.  If they want a self-subsidized day care and holding center in place of education, it will continue to happen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what are the schools to do with the kids whose parent(s) are working too many hours, don't have the interest or ability to help their children? What of those parents, especially of pre-teens and teens, who cannot make their children go to day care?
Click to expand...


This is one of the hardest things to deal with.  My gut instincts are that the whole class must not be punished or disadvantaged by the 'slow' students who aren't getting parental support or who have parents who just can't be bothered.  When I was hands on with the schools, our remedy was to enlist volunteer tutors who will work with the slow kids, but the rest of the class will go at the fastest pace possible and cover as much ground as they are capable of doing.   I currently participate in just such a volunteer tutoring program at an elementary school now.

It does require a particular caliber of principal and teacher, however, to utilize 'civilian' volunteers in constructive ways.


----------



## Annie

Foxfyre said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem, overwhelmingly, I am convinced needs to be addressed by parents committed to their kids and their kids' education.  If parents want good education, they will make it happen.  If they want a self-subsidized day care and holding center in place of education, it will continue to happen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what are the schools to do with the kids whose parent(s) are working too many hours, don't have the interest or ability to help their children? What of those parents, especially of pre-teens and teens, who cannot make their children go to day care?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is one of the hardest things to deal with.  My gut instincts are that the whole class must not be punished or disadvantaged by the 'slow' students who aren't getting parental support or who have parents who just can't be bothered.  When I was hands on with the schools, our remedy was to enlist volunteer tutors who will work with the slow kids, but the rest of the class will go at the fastest pace possible and cover as much ground as they are capable of doing.   I currently participate in just such a volunteer tutoring program at an elementary school now.
> 
> It does require a particular caliber of principal and teacher, however, to utilize 'civilian' volunteers in constructive ways.
Click to expand...


That sounds wonderful. Kudos to you and the district that encourages such.


----------



## Annie

JakeStarkey said:


> Truancy laws and fines for the parents that don't or won't care.



That might work for those that are ditching classes, but what about those that show up, but don't want to learn? It tends to hurt others to a degree, not small.


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Truancy laws and fines for the parents that don't or won't care.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That might work for those that are ditching classes, but what about those that show up, but don't want to learn? It tends to hurt others to a degree, not small.
Click to expand...


Hey, that's part of the _teacher's job_: To make students want to learn.


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Truancy laws and fines for the parents that don't or won't care.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That might work for those that are ditching classes, but what about those that show up, but don't want to learn? It tends to hurt others to a degree, not small.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey, that's part of the _teacher's job_: To make students want to learn.
Click to expand...


Right. I'm seriously wondering about your teaching/asstnt VP claims. You failed about the post where you made attributions in quoting towards myself, now this? 

Any teacher, from any school, no matter how well off or impoverished, understands that disruptive kids keep the class from learning. You sir, seem to be claiming that you as a math teacher gave daily grades, no mistakes, and all your students learned. You graded all spelling, and used scantrons sparingly with math. You do not seem to have ever taught.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Truancy laws and fines for the parents that don't or won't care.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That might work for those that are ditching classes, but what about those that show up, but don't want to learn? It tends to hurt others to a degree, not small.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey, that's part of the _teacher's job_: To make students want to learn.
Click to expand...


Learning will occur if the teacher can hit that inner potential of rapport that each child possesses.

A teacher doesn't stop teaching because the student is slow or challenged; the teacher keeps plugging.

One of the issues we had to correct and it took some time to do that was to end the 'children of the town leaders and popular teachers and parents' being grouped together in  particular classes.  One particular principal fought that with her all.  When she was not extended, she got the message and asked forgiveness but got the door instead.

Children understand fairness above all else.  Doesn't matter if a child comes from a million dollar home or the projects: all children deserve an equal opportunity to achieve.


----------



## Foxfyre

Annie said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what are the schools to do with the kids whose parent(s) are working too many hours, don't have the interest or ability to help their children? What of those parents, especially of pre-teens and teens, who cannot make their children go to day care?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is one of the hardest things to deal with.  My gut instincts are that the whole class must not be punished or disadvantaged by the 'slow' students who aren't getting parental support or who have parents who just can't be bothered.  When I was hands on with the schools, our remedy was to enlist volunteer tutors who will work with the slow kids, but the rest of the class will go at the fastest pace possible and cover as much ground as they are capable of doing.   I currently participate in just such a volunteer tutoring program at an elementary school now.
> 
> It does require a particular caliber of principal and teacher, however, to utilize 'civilian' volunteers in constructive ways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That sounds wonderful. Kudos to you and the district that encourages such.
Click to expand...


Unfortunately the "district" is the Allbuquerque Public Schools that have an abysmal track record for educating kids.  The only kudos involved re the district is that the Superintendent(s) have not squelched or interfered with the vision of the principal and teachers at the two elementary schools where we provide volunteers.  Lots of 'disadvantaged' students at those schools so we supplement with school supplies, mittens in the winter, warm socks, etc., but the hands on help with math, reading, and writing provided by the volunteers has been a wonderful thing.

There are schools in the district that want as little outside involvement as possible, however.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Foxfyre, I am out of rep, but I will catch you when I can.  Bless you.


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> That might work for those that are ditching classes, but what about those that show up, but don't want to learn? It tends to hurt others to a degree, not small.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, that's part of the _teacher's job_: To make students want to learn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right. I'm seriously wondering about your teaching/asstnt VP claims. You failed about the post where you made attributions in quoting towards myself, now this?
> 
> Any teacher, from any school, no matter how well off or impoverished, understands that disruptive kids keep the class from learning. You sir, seem to be claiming that you as a math teacher gave daily grades, no mistakes, and all your students learned. You graded all spelling, and used scantrons sparingly with math. You do not seem to have ever taught.
Click to expand...



I suggest, madame, that instead of imagining what I "seem to be claiming," just read what I'm actually writing.

Motivating students to learn is part of the teacher's job in a public school.

Its not called PUBLIC for nothing: you get to teach everyone.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Annie, read what Samson is writing, instead of positing your pre-existing concepts of what you think teaching should be onto him.


----------



## Annie

JakeStarkey said:


> Annie, read what Samson is writing, instead of positing your pre-existing concepts of what you think teaching should be onto him.



Hey JakeS, how about reading the whole thread, instead of siding with someone you assume is disagreeing with me. Samson and I have way more in common, despite my aggression, than he and you. He definitely wants both teachers and kids held accountable.


----------



## Samson

As a result of the meeting (see p 7):

All teachers have complied, with exceptions
1. History 
2. Geometry (but they're available Tuesday)

I'll set up a meeting with the History Teacher on Monday. He's already sent me a whinet note about the number of students he has, number of classes, coaching two sports after school, teaching and grading a "Unit"....yada, yada, yada.....Bullsihit!


----------



## Cecilie1200

Samson said:


> As a result of the meeting (see p 7):
> 
> All teachers have complied, with exceptions
> 1. History
> 2. Geometry (but they're available Tuesday)
> 
> I'll set up a meeting with the History Teacher on Monday. He's already sent me a whinet note about the number of students he has, number of classes, coaching two sports after school, teaching and grading a "Unit"....yada, yada, yada.....Bullsihit!



Maybe he should cut back on the extracurricular sports if it's interfering with his schoolwork.  Isn't that what we tell our kids?


----------



## JakeStarkey

Good, Cecilie.  That is right.  Students have to prioritize, and teachers should set the example.


----------



## Samson

Cecilie1200 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a result of the meeting (see p 7):
> 
> All teachers have complied, with exceptions
> 1. History
> 2. Geometry (but they're available Tuesday)
> 
> I'll set up a meeting with the History Teacher on Monday. He's already sent me a whinet note about the number of students he has, number of classes, coaching two sports after school, teaching and grading a "Unit"....yada, yada, yada.....Bullsihit!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe he should cut back on the extracurricular sports if it's interfering with his schoolwork.  Isn't that what we tell our kids?
Click to expand...


Well, I'm sure there's a stipend involved with coaching.......cutting back on that would also decrease his income.


----------



## chanel

Are you satisfied with the material?


----------



## Cecilie1200

Samson said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a result of the meeting (see p 7):
> 
> All teachers have complied, with exceptions
> 1. History
> 2. Geometry (but they're available Tuesday)
> 
> I'll set up a meeting with the History Teacher on Monday. He's already sent me a whinet note about the number of students he has, number of classes, coaching two sports after school, teaching and grading a "Unit"....yada, yada, yada.....Bullsihit!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe he should cut back on the extracurricular sports if it's interfering with his schoolwork.  Isn't that what we tell our kids?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I'm sure there's a stipend involved with coaching.......cutting back on that would also decrease his income.
Click to expand...


So?  That's not an excuse for being unable to do his primary job properly.  If your kid had a part-time job in order to pay for his car insurance or whatever, and it was affecting his grades, would you let the "I need the money" argument stop you from saying that schoolwork comes first?


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> As a result of the meeting (see p 7):
> 
> All teachers have complied, with exceptions
> 1. History
> 2. Geometry (but they're available Tuesday)



So...what have you learned from the work that was sent back?


----------



## Douger

AllieBaba said:


> If I don't go through my kids' backpack every day I miss all sorts of things...and their homework is sent home. But I walk into their classroom at least once a week, ostensibly to give Wallybaba his eyeglasses or pay for lunches or something. But that contact is never amiss, I'm able to sort of keep on top of what is going on.
> 
> I love it that my kids are in a charter school. This year the focus is on the watershed! How cool is that! The whole school is going to go canoeing at some point....


Tell them to be careful. Since there is no longer PE, they probably can't swim or perform CPR.


----------



## Samson

chanel said:


> Are you satisfied with the material?



Well, not really, but that's an entirely seperate issue: Quantitative evaluation is, or at least is supposed to be, fairly simple: One graded paper per week per class.

But is the graded paper relative to the curriculum, student level, etc., etc.....I'm not going to go there. You begin questioning WTF paper A has to do with lesson B and test C and you'll just get tied up in never ending debate. Besides, this is part of the student's education, to ask and answer these questions.


----------



## Samson

Cecilie1200 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe he should cut back on the extracurricular sports if it's interfering with his schoolwork.  Isn't that what we tell our kids?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I'm sure there's a stipend involved with coaching.......cutting back on that would also decrease his income.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?  That's not an excuse for being unable to do his primary job properly.  If your kid had a part-time job in order to pay for his car insurance or whatever, and it was affecting his grades, would you let the "I need the money" argument stop you from saying that schoolwork comes first?
Click to expand...


I didn't say I thought coaching was a good excuse to not do the primary job.


----------



## syrenn

Well at least you got something back. Do you think they will keep it up or forget?


----------



## Samson

syrenn said:


> Well at least you got something back. Do you think they will keep it up or forget?



I'm not going to keep this business up forever.

Next Friday I either get what I want, or call the District Superintendent to have a quick, but informal chat to see if I really need to proceed with the complaint form, etc., etc., cumulating with a meeting with the School Board.


----------



## saveliberty

Samson said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well at least you got something back. Do you think they will keep it up or forget?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not going to keep this business up forever.
> 
> Next Friday I either get what I want, or call the District Superintendent to have a quick, but informal chat to see if I really need to proceed with the complaint form, etc., etc., cumulating with a meeting with the School Board.
Click to expand...


Play with a business card from a lawyer while your in the meeting.  Admistrators are very careful to avoid legal entanglements.


----------



## syrenn

saveliberty said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well at least you got something back. Do you think they will keep it up or forget?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not going to keep this business up forever.
> 
> Next Friday I either get what I want, or call the District Superintendent to have a quick, but informal chat to see if I really need to proceed with the complaint form, etc., etc., cumulating with a meeting with the School Board.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Play with a business card from a lawyer while your in the meeting.  Admistrators are very careful to avoid legal entanglements.
Click to expand...


----------



## ConHog

Samson, quick question, how much time do you spend volunteering at your child's school?


----------



## Samson

ConHog said:


> Samson, quick question, how much time do you spend volunteering at your child's school?



This Saturday I volunteered 3 hours during a relay race, but generally I leave the volunteering to soccer moms who have more spare time between bon-bon eating and soap operas.


----------



## Samson

syrenn said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not going to keep this business up forever.
> 
> Next Friday I either get what I want, or call the District Superintendent to have a quick, but informal chat to see if I really need to proceed with the complaint form, etc., etc., cumulating with a meeting with the School Board.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Play with a business card from a lawyer while your in the meeting.  Admistrators are very careful to avoid legal entanglements.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


He's not kidding.

I actually have arrived in school district offices with lists of questions that I'd printed out with letter-head from, "Samson, Samson, and Peabody; Legal Consultants."

I explained to the curious administrator that they were relatives that were giving me advice, but had not been retained as counsel. I continued the "Deposition" referring to the list of questions my "advisors" had given me. Soon the interview ended, the district deciding it would be better to consult with their own lawyer before answering any more questions.


----------



## ConHog

Samson said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Samson, quick question, how much time do you spend volunteering at your child's school?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This Saturday I volunteered 3 hours during a relay race, but generally I leave the volunteering to soccer moms who have more spare time between bon-bon eating and soap operas.
Click to expand...


That is about what I figured. In my experience the parents who complain the loudest are the least likely to be anywhere around to help. Just the way it goes I suppose.


----------



## Cecilie1200

ConHog said:


> Samson, quick question, how much time do you spend volunteering at your child's school?



Seems to me he's volunteering an awful lot of time to educate them right now.


----------



## Cecilie1200

ConHog said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Samson, quick question, how much time do you spend volunteering at your child's school?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This Saturday I volunteered 3 hours during a relay race, but generally I leave the volunteering to soccer moms who have more spare time between bon-bon eating and soap operas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is about what I figured. In my experience the parents who complain the loudest are the least likely to be anywhere around to help. Just the way it goes I suppose.
Click to expand...


So you're not allowed to expect a quality education for your child OR to expect regular contact from the teacher to keep you informed unless you have the free time to come in and help them do their jobs?


----------



## Samson

ConHog said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Samson, quick question, how much time do you spend volunteering at your child's school?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This Saturday I volunteered 3 hours during a relay race, but generally I leave the volunteering to soccer moms who have more spare time between bon-bon eating and soap operas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is about what I figured. In my experience the parents who complain the loudest are the least likely to be anywhere around to help. Just the way it goes I suppose.
Click to expand...


I figure if I volunteer more then I probably _wouldn't need_ to complain the loudest.

Just the way it goes, I suppose....


----------



## Samson

Cecilie1200 said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> This Saturday I volunteered 3 hours during a relay race, but generally I leave the volunteering to soccer moms who have more spare time between bon-bon eating and soap operas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is about what I figured. In my experience the parents who complain the loudest are the least likely to be anywhere around to help. Just the way it goes I suppose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you're not allowed to expect a quality education for your child OR to expect regular contact from the teacher to keep you informed unless you have the free time to come in and help them do their jobs?
Click to expand...


I guess this is exactly what the point is.

Furthermore, if you don't have time to help them do their jobs, that a nice cash donation would be most appreciated.

Perhaps Conhog prefers ass-kissing. Good for him.



I'll follow the district's proscribed method of complaining about being ignored, and receiving lousey service.


----------



## saveliberty

ConHog said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Samson, quick question, how much time do you spend volunteering at your child's school?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This Saturday I volunteered 3 hours during a relay race, but generally I leave the volunteering to soccer moms who have more spare time between bon-bon eating and soap operas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is about what I figured. In my experience the parents who complain the loudest are the least likely to be anywhere around to help. Just the way it goes I suppose.
Click to expand...


Probably three hours more than 85% of the parents will put in this school year.


----------



## Foxfyre

saveliberty said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> This Saturday I volunteered 3 hours during a relay race, but generally I leave the volunteering to soccer moms who have more spare time between bon-bon eating and soap operas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is about what I figured. In my experience the parents who complain the loudest are the least likely to be anywhere around to help. Just the way it goes I suppose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably three hours more than 85% of the parents will put in this school year.
Click to expand...


As previously posted, members from my church have taken on a special miinistry to mentor and tutor kids at two nearby elementary schools both of which have a lot of kids from low income families.  We aren't the only ones doing this, but a lot of our members do show up faithfully week after week to help kids with math, reading, and writing.  The principles and teachers are very receptive to this and the kids are benefitting enormously.

There are other schools however who don't want any such volunteers and who go out of their way to discourage parental involvement.  Personally, I would yank my kid out of a school that discouraged volunteerism so fast it would make your head spin, but that's just me.

But those parents who are working for a living to provide opportunities for their kids and maintaining a home for them and otherwise taking care of business may not have a lot of time to donate to the schools.  I could when my kids were still in school because I had jobs I didn't have to punch a clock or be at my desk at all times.  So I could help with the PTA and sports and band boosters and help sponsor field trips and be a home room mother and volunteer for some enrichment programs.  Folks who don't have that kind of freedom don't have that much time to donate.

But they sure as heck can take an interest in their kids and pay attention to what they are being taught and what they are learning.  And my hat is off to Samson for caring.  So many many parents don't these days.


----------



## Samson

Situation Update:

On Friday, October 8th, Six (6) weeks after my original request to see one graded paper/week/class, I received graded papers from every teacher.

I thanked them and looked forward to this week's issue.

It isn't easy to get what you want from schools, but it is possible if you know how to play the their game: _*DOCUMENT EVERYTHING.*_


----------



## Samson

Well, it seems one teacher wants to dance: for the past two weeks, there's been no papers graded in Biology, however they did watch a film.

The excuses are, we didn't have school (one day), she didn't have time, and my favorite, she didn't bother.

So, I'm finally going to send in the District Complaint Form.....<<<<sigh>>>>>

I asked the Principal if he'd rather simply handle the situation at his Administrative level, perhaps giving the teacher some "coaching" to help her plan, organize, and grade evaluative tools, but he gave me the run around...so....

Bombs Away.


----------



## saveliberty

Don't leave survivors.  They just breed more.


----------



## kwc57

It is damned frustrating.  Our school system uses an online system where grades are posted.  But I can go a week or more seeing any update.  While it is nice to be able to have easy access like that, it defeats the purpose if it isn't updated on a timely basis.  If your kid is carrying an A in the class and hits a concept they have difficulty with and all of a sudden have several assignments in the 50's and 60's, their grade drops like a rock.  If you don't know that until a week or two later, it is too late to address and then it is a struggle to claw the grade back up.

I know some teachers and I know it is a thankless job with low pay and that they have a life outside of school.  Hell, I learned long ago not to bring my work home with me in the evening.  I'm paid on a salary based on a 40 hour week.......I'm not giving them 60 for the same price.  That being said, we live in a day and age of technology that should be able to assist in some of the grading.


----------



## Samson

kwc57 said:


> It is damned frustrating.  Our school system uses an online system where grades are posted.  But I can go a week or more seeing any update.  While it is nice to be able to have easy access like that, it defeats the purpose if it isn't updated on a timely basis.  If your kid is carrying an A in the class and hits a concept they have difficulty with and all of a sudden have several assignments in the 50's and 60's, their grade drops like a rock.  If you don't know that until a week or two later, it is too late to address and then it is a struggle to claw the grade back up.
> .



Precisely.

And then the parents are blamed for not paying enough attention to what their kids do in school.


----------



## kwc57

Samson said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is damned frustrating.  Our school system uses an online system where grades are posted.  But I can go a week or more seeing any update.  While it is nice to be able to have easy access like that, it defeats the purpose if it isn't updated on a timely basis.  If your kid is carrying an A in the class and hits a concept they have difficulty with and all of a sudden have several assignments in the 50's and 60's, their grade drops like a rock.  If you don't know that until a week or two later, it is too late to address and then it is a struggle to claw the grade back up.
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Precisely.
> 
> And then the parents are blamed for not paying enough attention to what their kids do in school.
Click to expand...


My son is a senior this year.  I've checked his grades daily since they put the sytem in when he started 7th grade.  I don't need to check it but about once a week since it gets updated so infrequently........its just I never know WHEN it will get updated.  As a concerned and involved parent, I want to know ASAP.


----------



## Foxfyre

kwc57 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is damned frustrating.  Our school system uses an online system where grades are posted.  But I can go a week or more seeing any update.  While it is nice to be able to have easy access like that, it defeats the purpose if it isn't updated on a timely basis.  If your kid is carrying an A in the class and hits a concept they have difficulty with and all of a sudden have several assignments in the 50's and 60's, their grade drops like a rock.  If you don't know that until a week or two later, it is too late to address and then it is a struggle to claw the grade back up.
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Precisely.
> 
> And then the parents are blamed for not paying enough attention to what their kids do in school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My son is a senior this year.  I've checked his grades daily since they put the sytem in when he started 7th grade.  I don't need to check it but about once a week since it gets updated so infrequently........its just I never know WHEN it will get updated.  As a concerned and involved parent, I want to know ASAP.
Click to expand...


I think it is wonderful that parents are able to log into their child's records now in some school systems.  And knowing the grades helps.  But to complete our parenting obligations, though, I think we have to appreciate Samson's concern that he know WHAT is being taught and know whether his child is being educated.  Grades don't always provide information about that.


----------



## Samson

Foxfyre said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Precisely.
> 
> And then the parents are blamed for not paying enough attention to what their kids do in school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My son is a senior this year.  I've checked his grades daily since they put the sytem in when he started 7th grade.  I don't need to check it but about once a week since it gets updated so infrequently........its just I never know WHEN it will get updated.  As a concerned and involved parent, I want to know ASAP.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think it is wonderful that parents are able to log into their child's records now in some school systems.  And knowing the grades helps.  But to complete our parenting obligations, though, I think we have to appreciate Samson's concern that he know WHAT is being taught and know whether his child is being educated.  Grades don't always provide information about that.
Click to expand...


Well, try fighting _THAT BATTLE!_

I'm having trouble simply getting a piece of paper that shows work on it that has been graded to determine whether or not anything,_ ANYTHING_, was learned, much less anything that may be relative to the course of study, or the revelance to curriculum.

Goddamn I've never encountered such a stubborn institution. When I was teaching there is no way in HELL, I, or my principal would have challenged a parent over something so fundamental, and easily implemented.


----------



## saveliberty

There are other schools.


----------



## Foxfyre

Samson said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My son is a senior this year.  I've checked his grades daily since they put the sytem in when he started 7th grade.  I don't need to check it but about once a week since it gets updated so infrequently........its just I never know WHEN it will get updated.  As a concerned and involved parent, I want to know ASAP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is wonderful that parents are able to log into their child's records now in some school systems.  And knowing the grades helps.  But to complete our parenting obligations, though, I think we have to appreciate Samson's concern that he know WHAT is being taught and know whether his child is being educated.  Grades don't always provide information about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, try fighting _THAT BATTLE!_
> 
> I'm having trouble simply getting a piece of paper that shows work on it that has been graded to determine whether or not anything,_ ANYTHING_, was learned, much less anything that may be relative to the course of study, or the revelance to curriculum.
> 
> Goddamn I've never encountered such a stubborn institution. When I was teaching there is no way in HELL, I, or my principal would have challenged a parent over something so fundamental, and easily implemented.
Click to expand...


Yes, the 'secrecy' involved in education these days is foreign to me too.  When I was heavily involved in the school system, the very few parents who couldn't be bothered with parent teacher conferences etc. were pretty well advised of their negligence.  And we scheduled orientations for parents where the teachers explained their philosophy and methodology and course content for whatever was coming up in the next term.   If I couldn't get a satisfactory answer from my kid on any concern, the teacher did return my calls.   My own education prepared me to compete with anybody anywhere.

Such an education concept seems to be pretty rare these days.


----------



## Samson

saveliberty said:


> There are other schools.



True, then I could be another of the love-it-or-lump-it croud.

I've already invested too much time and effort to abandon the fight now, but I'm encouraging my 14 yo to go somewhere else next year.


----------



## Samson

Foxfyre said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is wonderful that parents are able to log into their child's records now in some school systems.  And knowing the grades helps.  But to complete our parenting obligations, though, I think we have to appreciate Samson's concern that he know WHAT is being taught and know whether his child is being educated.  Grades don't always provide information about that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, try fighting _THAT BATTLE!_
> 
> I'm having trouble simply getting a piece of paper that shows work on it that has been graded to determine whether or not anything,_ ANYTHING_, was learned, much less anything that may be relative to the course of study, or the revelance to curriculum.
> 
> Goddamn I've never encountered such a stubborn institution. When I was teaching there is no way in HELL, I, or my principal would have challenged a parent over something so fundamental, and easily implemented.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, the 'secrecy' involved in education these days is foreign to me too.  When I was heavily involved in the school system, the very few parents who couldn't be bothered with parent teacher conferences etc. were pretty well advised of their negligence.  And we scheduled orientations for parents where the teachers explained their philosophy and methodology and course content for whatever was coming up in the next term.   If I couldn't get a satisfactory answer from my kid on any concern, the teacher did return my calls.   My own education prepared me to compete with anybody anywhere.
> 
> Such an education concept seems to be pretty rare these days.
Click to expand...


I suspect the "secrecy" involved is a result of petty complaints over non-learning related issues like whether or not a moment of silence is "prayer," and if putting a condom on a cucumber is "obscene."


----------



## Foxfyre

Samson said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, try fighting _THAT BATTLE!_
> 
> I'm having trouble simply getting a piece of paper that shows work on it that has been graded to determine whether or not anything,_ ANYTHING_, was learned, much less anything that may be relative to the course of study, or the revelance to curriculum.
> 
> Goddamn I've never encountered such a stubborn institution. When I was teaching there is no way in HELL, I, or my principal would have challenged a parent over something so fundamental, and easily implemented.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the 'secrecy' involved in education these days is foreign to me too.  When I was heavily involved in the school system, the very few parents who couldn't be bothered with parent teacher conferences etc. were pretty well advised of their negligence.  And we scheduled orientations for parents where the teachers explained their philosophy and methodology and course content for whatever was coming up in the next term.   If I couldn't get a satisfactory answer from my kid on any concern, the teacher did return my calls.   My own education prepared me to compete with anybody anywhere.
> 
> Such an education concept seems to be pretty rare these days.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suspect the "secrecy" involved is a result of petty complaints over non-learning related issues like whether or not a moment of silence is "prayer," and if putting a condom on a cucumber is "obscene."
Click to expand...


Or not wanting parents to see whatever papers their kids are or are not completing.

But we had just as much controversy when I and when my kids were in school as there is now.  So I don't think that is it.


----------



## kwc57

Foxfyre said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Precisely.
> 
> And then the parents are blamed for not paying enough attention to what their kids do in school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My son is a senior this year.  I've checked his grades daily since they put the sytem in when he started 7th grade.  I don't need to check it but about once a week since it gets updated so infrequently........its just I never know WHEN it will get updated.  As a concerned and involved parent, I want to know ASAP.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think it is wonderful that parents are able to log into their child's records now in some school systems.  And knowing the grades helps.  But to complete our parenting obligations, though, I think we have to appreciate Samson's concern that he know WHAT is being taught and know whether his child is being educated.  Grades don't always provide information about that.
Click to expand...


Well I guess we've been lucky with our public school system.  At the beginning of each year the teachers send home documents to be signed by the parents that list their classroom/grading policies and procedures along with what they will be teaching.  Then of course all we have to do is tell our son to bring his textbook home if we want to see what material is being taught.  I don't think he has had a single teacher that I have not been able to communicate my questions or concerns to by email or conference since he began school.

Public education is not equal across the board.  Some are good and some are bad.


----------



## Samson

Foxfyre said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the 'secrecy' involved in education these days is foreign to me too.  When I was heavily involved in the school system, the very few parents who couldn't be bothered with parent teacher conferences etc. were pretty well advised of their negligence.  And we scheduled orientations for parents where the teachers explained their philosophy and methodology and course content for whatever was coming up in the next term.   If I couldn't get a satisfactory answer from my kid on any concern, the teacher did return my calls.   My own education prepared me to compete with anybody anywhere.
> 
> Such an education concept seems to be pretty rare these days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect the "secrecy" involved is a result of petty complaints over non-learning related issues like whether or not a moment of silence is "prayer," and if putting a condom on a cucumber is "obscene."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or not wanting parents to see whatever papers their kids are or are not completing.
> 
> But we had just as much controversy when I and when my kids were in school as there is now.  So I don't think that is it.
Click to expand...


Then why?

My answer is that teachers have become to fucking lazy: Planning a lesson, putting together an evaluation instrument for the lesson, grading the instrument, entering the grades, sending the bad grades home, dealing with unhappy parents.....hell, its much easier not to grade anything.


----------



## Foxfyre

kwc57 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My son is a senior this year.  I've checked his grades daily since they put the sytem in when he started 7th grade.  I don't need to check it but about once a week since it gets updated so infrequently........its just I never know WHEN it will get updated.  As a concerned and involved parent, I want to know ASAP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is wonderful that parents are able to log into their child's records now in some school systems.  And knowing the grades helps.  But to complete our parenting obligations, though, I think we have to appreciate Samson's concern that he know WHAT is being taught and know whether his child is being educated.  Grades don't always provide information about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I guess we've been lucky with our public school system.  At the beginning of each year the teachers send home documents to be signed by the parents that list their classroom/grading policies and procedures along with what they will be teaching.  Then of course all we have to do is tell our son to bring his textbook home if we want to see what material is being taught.  I don't think he has had a single teacher that I have not been able to communicate my questions or concerns to by email or conference since he began school.
> 
> Public education is not equal across the board.  Some are good and some are bad.
Click to expand...


The system in your school is the way it should be though I really also liked the parent orientation system we had.  And because they were so informative and really let the parents know how and what their kids would be taught, they were very well attended.

Here in the Albuquerque school system, I don't think they even have parent teacher conferences.  We lost the battle to even institute some kind of reasonable dress code for the teachers and the way some dress is scandalous.

Back when my kids were in school, such was not a problem.  A dress code for kids and staff was reasonable and pretty non restrictive, but did require appropriate dress and it was enforced.    The worst battle we fought was with a fundamentalist Christian group that was attempting to get a number of books banned from the school library.  It got pretty ugly before it was over but cooler heads prevailed and no books were removed.

And those folks left their kids in the school system, so all's well that ends well I guess.


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> Situation Update:
> 
> On Friday, October 8th, Six (6) weeks after my original request to see one graded paper/week/class, I received graded papers from every teacher.
> 
> I thanked them and looked forward to this week's issue.
> 
> It isn't easy to get what you want from schools, but it is possible if you know how to play the their game: _*DOCUMENT EVERYTHING.*_



What did you learn from the papers?


----------



## saveliberty

Samson said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are other schools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True, then I could be another of the love-it-or-lump-it croud.
> 
> I've already invested too much time and effort to abandon the fight now, but I'm encouraging my 14 yo to go somewhere else next year.
Click to expand...


It is your kid's future.  Some teachers might retaliate with low grades.  I'd ask for all the Biology tests, quizes, assignments and papers.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Samson said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My son is a senior this year.  I've checked his grades daily since they put the sytem in when he started 7th grade.  I don't need to check it but about once a week since it gets updated so infrequently........its just I never know WHEN it will get updated.  As a concerned and involved parent, I want to know ASAP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is wonderful that parents are able to log into their child's records now in some school systems.  And knowing the grades helps.  But to complete our parenting obligations, though, I think we have to appreciate Samson's concern that he know WHAT is being taught and know whether his child is being educated.  Grades don't always provide information about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, try fighting _THAT BATTLE!_
> 
> I'm having trouble simply getting a piece of paper that shows work on it that has been graded to determine whether or not anything,_ ANYTHING_, was learned, much less anything that may be relative to the course of study, or the revelance to curriculum.
> 
> Goddamn I've never encountered such a stubborn institution. When I was teaching there is no way in HELL, I, or my principal would have challenged a parent over something so fundamental, and easily implemented.
Click to expand...


Honestly, I think it's just a sense of arrogance that's offended by the idea that you would feel entitled to question or check up on ANYTHING they're doing.  It's apparently a very easy mindset for people to fall into, because I'm encountering the exact same thing in my life right now, in a different setting.


----------



## saveliberty

Your party running into some issues?


----------



## Cecilie1200

saveliberty said:


> Your party running into some issues?



You could say that.  It's really involved enough that I should give it it's own thread, if only because it would make me feel better to vent.  Go check "General Discussions" if you're interested.


----------



## saveliberty

Cecilie1200 said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your party running into some issues?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You could say that.  It's really involved enough that I should give it it's own thread, if only because it would make me feel better to vent.  Go check "General Discussions" if you're interested.
Click to expand...


Your interesting, so sure I'll check.

Your not on the first three pages.  You pulling my chain?  (So to speak)


----------



## Cecilie1200

saveliberty said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your party running into some issues?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You could say that.  It's really involved enough that I should give it it's own thread, if only because it would make me feel better to vent.  Go check "General Discussions" if you're interested.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your interesting, so sure I'll check.
> 
> Your not on the first three pages.  You pulling my chain?  (So to speak)
Click to expand...


Just took me a bit to finish writing it.  Try now.


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Situation Update:
> 
> On Friday, October 8th, Six (6) weeks after my original request to see one graded paper/week/class, I received graded papers from every teacher.
> 
> I thanked them and looked forward to this week's issue.
> 
> It isn't easy to get what you want from schools, but it is possible if you know how to play the their game: _*DOCUMENT EVERYTHING.*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did you learn from the papers?
Click to expand...


Is this a serious question, or is it some attempt at rhetorical humor?


----------



## Samson

saveliberty said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are other schools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True, then I could be another of the love-it-or-lump-it croud.
> 
> I've already invested too much time and effort to abandon the fight now, but I'm encouraging my 14 yo to go somewhere else next year.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is your kid's future.  Some teachers might retaliate with low grades.  I'd ask for all the Biology tests, quizes, assignments and papers.
Click to expand...


Meh..remote possibility.

At any rate, I've asked to see the graded papers: Low grades are better that false, inflated, or missing grades.


----------



## Samson

Cecilie1200 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is wonderful that parents are able to log into their child's records now in some school systems.  And knowing the grades helps.  But to complete our parenting obligations, though, I think we have to appreciate Samson's concern that he know WHAT is being taught and know whether his child is being educated.  Grades don't always provide information about that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, try fighting _THAT BATTLE!_
> 
> I'm having trouble simply getting a piece of paper that shows work on it that has been graded to determine whether or not anything,_ ANYTHING_, was learned, much less anything that may be relative to the course of study, or the revelance to curriculum.
> 
> Goddamn I've never encountered such a stubborn institution. When I was teaching there is no way in HELL, I, or my principal would have challenged a parent over something so fundamental, and easily implemented.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Honestly, I think it's just a sense of arrogance that's offended by the idea that you would feel entitled to question or check up on ANYTHING they're doing.  It's apparently a very easy mindset for people to fall into, because I'm encountering the exact same thing in my life right now, in a different setting.
Click to expand...


Ah, yes, I see now.

Academia will not accept any opinion that is not "research based."

Happily, I have already offered much "research based" evidence to support frequent, regular measurement of learning as a necessary component of successful students.

I have even given the principal the sources of these research findings.

If given the opportunity, I look forward to quoting them to the School Board.


----------



## Ravi

A teacher's job is to teach...it is not to cater to the whims of a single idiot parent that apparently never talks to his kid and teaches his kid that his failures are someone else's fault.


----------



## Samson

_This message is hidden because Ravi is on your ignore list. _

But, I'm guessing its her usual frothy idiotic babbling.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Samson said:


> _This message is hidden because Ravi is on your ignore list. _
> 
> But, I'm guessing its her usual frothy idiotic babbling.



I have her on ignore, too, but I'll go in on that guess with you.


----------



## Samson

Cecilie1200 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> _This message is hidden because Ravi is on your ignore list. _
> 
> But, I'm guessing its her usual frothy idiotic babbling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have her on ignore, too, but I'll go in on that guess with you.
Click to expand...


Does she also send you a lot of PM's which you delete without reading?


----------



## Synthaholic

Samson said:


> Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:
> 
> _Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject_
> 
> I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."
> 
> My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade
> 
> I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.
> 
> 
> WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???
> 
> It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!
> 
> GODDAMN? WTF??
> 
> Am I being completely unreasonable???


Yeah, but you're an asshole, so . . .


----------



## Ravi

I've never sent you a PM.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Samson said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> _This message is hidden because Ravi is on your ignore list. _
> 
> But, I'm guessing its her usual frothy idiotic babbling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have her on ignore, too, but I'll go in on that guess with you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does she also send you a lot of PM's which you delete without reading?
Click to expand...


No, but I would if she did.


----------



## kwc57

Samson said:


> _This message is hidden because Ravi is on your ignore list. _
> 
> But, I'm guessing its her usual frothy idiotic babbling.



yes


----------



## Annie

Samson, have you gotten a response yet from district offices?


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> Samson, have you gotten a response yet from district offices?




The next step is the Principal's report sent to a "Committee appointed by the Superintendent of his Designee." 

According to published district policy, this report must happen within 10 days, and I should also receive a copy, so I'll look for in on November 9th.


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Samson, have you gotten a response yet from district offices?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The next step is the Principal's report sent to a "Committee appointed by the Superintendent of his Designee."
> 
> According to published district policy, this report must happen within 10 days, and I should also receive a copy, so I'll look for in on November 9th.
Click to expand...


I look forward to the response. This certainly seems like something the principal should have been able to handle, don't you think?


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Samson, have you gotten a response yet from district offices?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The next step is the Principal's report sent to a "Committee appointed by the Superintendent of his Designee."
> 
> According to published district policy, this report must happen within 10 days, and I should also receive a copy, so I'll look for in on November 9th.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I look forward to the response. This certainly seems like something the principal should have been able to handle, don't you think?
Click to expand...


Yes, in fact, I clearly asked if I should: 

1. Let him handle it, or; 
2. send him the complaint package (complaint form, meeting minutes, sign-in sheet, and 4 emails (before and after the meeting requesting one graded paper/week and not getting it from the particular teacher).

Astonishingly, his reply was not affirmative to the former, so he got the latter response.

Maybe he want's ammo to crucify her for this and other things?


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> The next step is the Principal's report sent to a "Committee appointed by the Superintendent of his Designee."
> 
> According to published district policy, this report must happen within 10 days, and I should also receive a copy, so I'll look for in on November 9th.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I look forward to the response. This certainly seems like something the principal should have been able to handle, don't you think?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, in fact, I clearly asked if I should:
> 
> 1. Let him handle it, or;
> 2. send him the complaint package (complaint form, meeting minutes, sign-in sheet, and 4 emails (before and after the meeting requesting one graded paper/week and not getting it from the particular teacher).
> 
> Astonishingly, his reply was not affirmative to the former, so he got the latter response.
> 
> Maybe he want's ammo to crucify her for this and other things?
Click to expand...


That may be the case. It will be interesting to see how it all works out. How big is your district?


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I look forward to the response. This certainly seems like something the principal should have been able to handle, don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, in fact, I clearly asked if I should:
> 
> 1. Let him handle it, or;
> 2. send him the complaint package (complaint form, meeting minutes, sign-in sheet, and 4 emails (before and after the meeting requesting one graded paper/week and not getting it from the particular teacher).
> 
> Astonishingly, his reply was not affirmative to the former, so he got the latter response.
> 
> Maybe he want's ammo to crucify her for this and other things?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That may be the case. It will be interesting to see how it all works out. How big is your district?
Click to expand...


Not nearly as big as an Urban district, but bigger than a Rural district.


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, in fact, I clearly asked if I should:
> 
> 1. Let him handle it, or;
> 2. send him the complaint package (complaint form, meeting minutes, sign-in sheet, and 4 emails (before and after the meeting requesting one graded paper/week and not getting it from the particular teacher).
> 
> Astonishingly, his reply was not affirmative to the former, so he got the latter response.
> 
> Maybe he want's ammo to crucify her for this and other things?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That may be the case. It will be interesting to see how it all works out. How big is your district?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not nearly as big as an Urban district, but bigger than a Rural district.
Click to expand...


I'm interested in how this plays out. Keep us informed.


----------



## squeeze berry

goldcatt said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't they just send the graded assignments home with your spawn?
> 
> Isn't that how they do it?  Or do teachers these days horde all the assignments?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the slave isn't the most reliable conveyance, but after a fuckin' month I expect him to have the proceeedure of receiving a paper, transporting it home, letting me know he has it, and if necessary returning it to school.
> 
> Some complain that I'm interfering with their horde, arguing that they like to wait until "The end of the Unit" to send all the graded work home. But what I'm seeing is lost of grade entries that do not require ANY objective evaluation: "Participation" grades, and very few quizzes, tests, and things that require a student to place their pencil to a piece of paper!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good luck. They bypassed the principal altogether and I got called to the District Office last year after discovering by sheer accident that my pups had been yanked from their educational environment and placed in enrichment classes twice a week so I demanded to see their IEP's - as required by law - to find out exactly what "enriching" activities they were participating in. I won. Eventually.
Click to expand...


you should have a copy of their IEP's at home. 

those "enrichment activities" are usually precision teaching to work on weaknesses, right?

So in effect you did not win, you just got your way.


----------



## squeeze berry

Samson said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not interested in 30 apocryphal parents with 30 apocryphal requests.  .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was my prepared statement should anyone have brought up the issue: I really couldn't give a shit about a hypothetical 30, 31, 32, or 175 other parents.
> 
> Either respond to MY complaint, or don't.
> 
> If you don't, then explain to the District Superintendent, and the Board of Education why my expectation is unreasonable.
Click to expand...


I have not read through the entire thread and what you ask seems reasonable. but at the same time you come off as a confrontational smart-assed know it all. 

Could that be part of the problem?


----------



## Samson

squeeze berry said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not interested in 30 apocryphal parents with 30 apocryphal requests.  .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was my prepared statement should anyone have brought up the issue: I really couldn't give a shit about a hypothetical 30, 31, 32, or 175 other parents.
> 
> Either respond to MY complaint, or don't.
> 
> If you don't, then explain to the District Superintendent, and the Board of Education why my expectation is unreasonable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have not read through the entire thread and what you ask seems reasonable. but at the same time you come off as a confrontational smart-assed know it all.
> 
> Could that be part of the problem?
Click to expand...


No.


----------



## squeeze berry

Samson said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was my prepared statement should anyone have brought up the issue: I really couldn't give a shit about a hypothetical 30, 31, 32, or 175 other parents.
> 
> Either respond to MY complaint, or don't.
> 
> If you don't, then explain to the District Superintendent, and the Board of Education why my expectation is unreasonable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have not read through the entire thread and what you ask seems reasonable. but at the same time you come off as a confrontational smart-assed know it all.
> 
> Could that be part of the problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.
Click to expand...



again if all you want is some test papers I would not see the problem. I would make sure you got them. but then after you get them, then what? will you find some other excuse to badger the teacher?


----------



## Big Fitz

You know what I find odd?  I never see kids with books in backpacks.  Never see homework.  Always empty packs full of toys, snacks and notices for parents.  I drive for 4 charter schools, and with the rarest exception, children have no homework.  When I was their age, I was constantly lugging 3-4 books home to study.  I had backpacks wear out from carrying heavy loads.  Now the heaviest thing the kids seem to carry is their PSP and CD case.

I'm at a loss.


----------



## Samson

squeeze berry said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have not read through the entire thread and what you ask seems reasonable. but at the same time you come off as a confrontational smart-assed know it all.
> 
> Could that be part of the problem?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> again if all you want is some test papers I would not see the problem. I would make sure you got them. but then after you get them, then what? will you find some other excuse to badger the teacher?
Click to expand...


Maybe. What's you're point?


----------



## Samson

Big Fitz said:


> You know what I find odd?  I never see kids with books in backpacks.  Never see homework.  Always empty packs full of toys, snacks and notices for parents.  I drive for 4 charter schools, and with the rarest exception, children have no homework.  When I was their age, I was constantly lugging 3-4 books home to study.  I had backpacks wear out from carrying heavy loads.  Now the heaviest thing the kids seem to carry is their PSP and CD case.
> 
> I'm at a loss.



Well, HOMEWORK is another subject entirely, and would make for an interesting thread; However, I'm not worried about it, per-se. 

My issue is that there seems to be NO work, _home or otherwise_, NOTHING going on.


----------



## sangha

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the slave isn't the most reliable conveyance, but after a fuckin' month I expect him to have the proceeedure of receiving a paper, transporting it home, letting me know he has it, and if necessary returning it to school.
> 
> Some complain that I'm interfering with their horde, arguing that they like to wait until "The end of the Unit" to send all the graded work home. But what I'm seeing is lost of grade entries that do not require ANY objective evaluation: "Participation" grades, and very few quizzes, tests, and things that require a student to place their pencil to a piece of paper!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What grade is the child in? How long has school been in session? Were there problems last year?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 10th
> 
> about a month: I know, not much time, but GET THE LEAD OUT!
> 
> Problems EVERY year....wait until 9 weeks are up, then WFT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING??? has been SOP. Not so this year.
> 
> English 10, for example....I have not seen a graded paper for the past TWO WEEKS?
> 
> Biology? Nothing but one paper with three questions graded.
Click to expand...


I'm not surprised that the spawn is lazy. He has a parent too lazy to go an pick up the papers himself.

That's the rightings culture of dependency. They expect the govt to do it for them

Would you like some govt cheese to go with that rightwing whine?


----------



## Big Fitz

Storing kids so they don't block traffic.  That explains why I won't drive public schools or the private Jihad factories some schools here are.


----------



## sangha

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> The next step is the Principal's report sent to a "Committee appointed by the Superintendent of his Designee."
> 
> According to published district policy, this report must happen within 10 days, and I should also receive a copy, so I'll look for in on November 9th.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I look forward to the response. This certainly seems like something the principal should have been able to handle, don't you think?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, in fact, I clearly asked if I should:
> 
> 1. Let him handle it, or;
> 2. send him the complaint package (complaint form, meeting minutes, sign-in sheet, and 4 emails (before and after the meeting requesting one graded paper/week and not getting it from the particular teacher).
> 
> Astonishingly, his reply was not affirmative to the former, so he got the latter response.
> 
> Maybe he want's ammo to crucify her for this and other things?
Click to expand...


You wanted the principal to handle your childs laziness?


----------



## Ravi

Big Fitz said:


> You know what I find odd?  I never see kids with books in backpacks.  Never see homework.  Always empty packs full of toys, snacks and notices for parents.  I drive for 4 charter schools, and with the rarest exception, children have no homework.  When I was their age, I was constantly lugging 3-4 books home to study.  I had backpacks wear out from carrying heavy loads.  Now the heaviest thing the kids seem to carry is their PSP and CD case.
> 
> I'm at a loss.


Most schools give kids a cd that contains the textbook...or a book to leave at home and a class room book to use at school. This is because schools have done away with lockers and carrying around 5 - 8 heavy books is unfeasible.

When did you go to school, in the stone age?


----------



## Samson

sangha said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I look forward to the response. This certainly seems like something the principal should have been able to handle, don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, in fact, I clearly asked if I should:
> 
> 1. Let him handle it, or;
> 2. send him the complaint package (complaint form, meeting minutes, sign-in sheet, and 4 emails (before and after the meeting requesting one graded paper/week and not getting it from the particular teacher).
> 
> Astonishingly, his reply was not affirmative to the former, so he got the latter response.
> 
> Maybe he want's ammo to crucify her for this and other things?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You wanted the principal to handle your childs laziness?
Click to expand...


No, the teachers' laziness.


----------



## sangha

Samson said:


> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, in fact, I clearly asked if I should:
> 
> 1. Let him handle it, or;
> 2. send him the complaint package (complaint form, meeting minutes, sign-in sheet, and 4 emails (before and after the meeting requesting one graded paper/week and not getting it from the particular teacher).
> 
> Astonishingly, his reply was not affirmative to the former, so he got the latter response.
> 
> Maybe he want's ammo to crucify her for this and other things?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You wanted the principal to handle your childs laziness?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the teachers' laziness.
Click to expand...


*Edited by Intense. No Family Attacks! Taboo!*


----------



## Samson

sangha said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You wanted the principal to handle your childs laziness?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, the teachers' laziness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Edited By Intense. No Family Attacks! Taboo!*
Click to expand...


You probably should stop while you're behind.


----------



## sangha

Samson said:


> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, the teachers' laziness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your spawn has been lazy for years because his current teacher is lazy?
> 
> * No Family Attacks!*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You probably should stop while you're behind.
Click to expand...


Sounds like the one who is behind is your responsibility

But I'm sure it's the Big Bad Govt fault.


----------



## kwc57

sangha said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Edited- No Family Atacks! Taboo!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You probably should stop while you're behind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sounds like the one who is behind is your responsibility
> 
> But I'm sure it's the Big Bad Govt fault.
Click to expand...


Quit being a troll ass.  Either go to the beginning and read the thread or kiss off.


----------



## squeeze berry

Samson said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> again if all you want is some test papers I would not see the problem. I would make sure you got them. but then after you get them, then what? will you find some other excuse to badger the teacher?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe. What's you're point?
Click to expand...


then you are a horse's ass if that is the case


----------



## squeeze berry

kwc57 said:


> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> You probably should stop while you're behind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like the one who is behind is your responsibility
> 
> But I'm sure it's the Big Bad Govt fault.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Quit being a troll ass.  Either go to the beginning and read the thread or kiss off.
Click to expand...


i have a feeling that the OP is not telling the whole story


----------



## kwc57

squeeze berry said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like the one who is behind is your responsibility
> 
> But I'm sure it's the Big Bad Govt fault.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quit being a troll ass.  Either go to the beginning and read the thread or kiss off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i have a feeling that the OP is not telling the whole story
Click to expand...


Fuck you and the sock puppet you rode in on.


----------



## Big Fitz

Ravi said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know what I find odd?  I never see kids with books in backpacks.  Never see homework.  Always empty packs full of toys, snacks and notices for parents.  I drive for 4 charter schools, and with the rarest exception, children have no homework.  When I was their age, I was constantly lugging 3-4 books home to study.  I had backpacks wear out from carrying heavy loads.  Now the heaviest thing the kids seem to carry is their PSP and CD case.
> 
> I'm at a loss.
> 
> 
> 
> Most schools give kids a cd that contains the textbook...or a book to leave at home and a class room book to use at school. This is because schools have done away with lockers and carrying around 5 - 8 heavy books is unfeasible.
> 
> When did you go to school, in the stone age?
Click to expand...

Well, I did ride the yellow woolly mammoth to the school cave...


----------



## Ravi

Big Fitz said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know what I find odd?  I never see kids with books in backpacks.  Never see homework.  Always empty packs full of toys, snacks and notices for parents.  I drive for 4 charter schools, and with the rarest exception, children have no homework.  When I was their age, I was constantly lugging 3-4 books home to study.  I had backpacks wear out from carrying heavy loads.  Now the heaviest thing the kids seem to carry is their PSP and CD case.
> 
> I'm at a loss.
> 
> 
> 
> Most schools give kids a cd that contains the textbook...or a book to leave at home and a class room book to use at school. This is because schools have done away with lockers and carrying around 5 - 8 heavy books is unfeasible.
> 
> When did you go to school, in the stone age?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, I did ride the yellow woolly mammoth to the school cave...
Click to expand...

Uphill in the snow both ways?


----------



## Samson

squeeze berry said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like the one who is behind is your responsibility
> 
> But I'm sure it's the Big Bad Govt fault.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quit being a troll ass.  Either go to the beginning and read the thread or kiss off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i have a feeling that the OP is not telling the whole story
Click to expand...


Well?


----------



## Big Fitz

With snow year round, 3 feet deep an hour, barefoot, carrying my little sister on my back and the stone tablets we used for books.  They invented papyrus my senior year.


----------



## saveliberty

squeeze berry said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not interested in 30 apocryphal parents with 30 apocryphal requests.  .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was my prepared statement should anyone have brought up the issue: I really couldn't give a shit about a hypothetical 30, 31, 32, or 175 other parents.
> 
> Either respond to MY complaint, or don't.
> 
> If you don't, then explain to the District Superintendent, and the Board of Education why my expectation is unreasonable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have not read through the entire thread and what you ask seems reasonable. but at the same time you come off as a confrontational smart-assed know it all.
> 
> Could that be part of the problem?
Click to expand...


No, but you could move your incredibly large ass out of the way so us grownups can have a conversation.  Oh, my mistake, not your ass, that is just totally you.


----------



## Samson

I got a call today from what sounds like the Assistant Principal who invited me to come pick up the report, sitting on his desk, tomorrow.

So I'll be able to post the response to my complaint.

Should be very interesting...


----------



## saveliberty

My guess is one giant cover their collective asses report, sprinkled generously with excuses.


----------



## squeeze berry

Samson said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> I also offered to attend class with my boys if they didn't start to bring home homework. I told them I was perfectly willing to quit my job and go on welfare so I could attend class with them, to make sure I was available to "help" them remember to bring home homework, and so I always knew what they were doing in their classes, since they weren't inclined to tell me.
> 
> They believed me. I wasn't that attached to my job at the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, um, I'm not gonna quit my job to go hold my 16 yo's hand.
Click to expand...


what's your job?


----------



## squeeze berry

Samson said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> What if there is a week where there are no graded papers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then there should be a good reason why, and it takes all of five seconds to scribble a note stating that reason and hand it to Samson Jr.  Quite frankly, I would have expected some sort of yearly or semester syllabus - or at least an outline - to have made an appearance at the beginning of the year so that the parents would be expecting the weeks full of lab work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There were syllabii, and I can check grades thathave been given with those that have returned home. Generally, Samson Jr. has been reliable.
> 
> At any rate, each week I give my phone number and urge anyone who's interested in explaining their situation, e.g., "I Gave Jr. this paper, this week a chance to voice their POV: None has.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Because they haven't given him anything, and the only excuses they have is they simply cannot put it together.
Click to expand...


so what happens when a graded paper goes home?


----------



## squeeze berry

xotoxi said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> What if there is a week where there are no graded papers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then there should be a good reason why, and it takes all of five seconds to scribble a note stating that reason and hand it to Samson Jr.  Quite frankly, I would have expected some sort of yearly or semester syllabus - or at least an outline - to have made an appearance at the beginning of the year so that the parents would be expecting the weeks full of lab work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why does there have to be a good reason?  How often should a child's education be assessed?  Should there be a quiz or "paper" every day?  If all the time is spent assessing what is learned, when is there time to learn?
> 
> And if the parent wants to micromanage their child's education, then maybe they should be putting some onus on the child to communicate with them and let them know what they are doing.
> 
> Seems to me like Samson is not actually interested in the grades or the papers, but more in just creating a hassle for everyone.
Click to expand...


i agree with this. ^

After reading most of the OP's posts and the meeting Sampson conducted.

Sampson started making demands first week of class.

Wonder how he/she would react if someone went to his/her job and acted the same way.....


----------



## squeeze berry

saveliberty said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was my prepared statement should anyone have brought up the issue: I really couldn't give a shit about a hypothetical 30, 31, 32, or 175 other parents.
> 
> Either respond to MY complaint, or don't.
> 
> If you don't, then explain to the District Superintendent, and the Board of Education why my expectation is unreasonable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have not read through the entire thread and what you ask seems reasonable. but at the same time you come off as a confrontational smart-assed know it all.
> 
> Could that be part of the problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, but you could move your incredibly large ass out of the way so us grownups can have a conversation.  Oh, my mistake, not your ass, that is just totally you.
Click to expand...



very mature of you....


----------



## sangha

squeeze berry said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then there should be a good reason why, and it takes all of five seconds to scribble a note stating that reason and hand it to Samson Jr.  Quite frankly, I would have expected some sort of yearly or semester syllabus - or at least an outline - to have made an appearance at the beginning of the year so that the parents would be expecting the weeks full of lab work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why does there have to be a good reason?  How often should a child's education be assessed?  Should there be a quiz or "paper" every day?  If all the time is spent assessing what is learned, when is there time to learn?
> 
> And if the parent wants to micromanage their child's education, then maybe they should be putting some onus on the child to communicate with them and let them know what they are doing.
> 
> Seems to me like Samson is not actually interested in the grades or the papers, but more in just creating a hassle for everyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i agree with this. ^
> 
> After reading most of the OP's posts and the meeting Sampson conducted.
> 
> Sampson started making demands first week of class.
> 
> Wonder how he/she would react if someone went to his/her job and acted the same way.....
Click to expand...


It's  called passive-aggression. Sampsons' posts are textbook p-a


----------



## Samson

squeeze berry said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then there should be a good reason why, and it takes all of five seconds to scribble a note stating that reason and hand it to Samson Jr.  Quite frankly, I would have expected some sort of yearly or semester syllabus - or at least an outline - to have made an appearance at the beginning of the year so that the parents would be expecting the weeks full of lab work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why does there have to be a good reason?  How often should a child's education be assessed?  Should there be a quiz or "paper" every day?  If all the time is spent assessing what is learned, when is there time to learn?
> 
> And if the parent wants to micromanage their child's education, then maybe they should be putting some onus on the child to communicate with them and let them know what they are doing.
> 
> Seems to me like Samson is not actually interested in the grades or the papers, but more in just creating a hassle for everyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i agree with this. ^
> 
> After reading most of the OP's posts and the meeting Sampson conducted.
> 
> Sampson started making demands first week of class.
> 
> Wonder how he/she would react if someone went to his/her job and acted the same way.....
Click to expand...



I would have created an instrument or instruments that would measure learning on a weekly basis.

It's not rocket science.


----------



## Samson

squeeze berry said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then there should be a good reason why, and it takes all of five seconds to scribble a note stating that reason and hand it to Samson Jr.  Quite frankly, I would have expected some sort of yearly or semester syllabus - or at least an outline - to have made an appearance at the beginning of the year so that the parents would be expecting the weeks full of lab work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were syllabii, and I can check grades thathave been given with those that have returned home. Generally, Samson Jr. has been reliable.
> 
> At any rate, each week I give my phone number and urge anyone who's interested in explaining their situation, e.g., "I Gave Jr. this paper, this week a chance to voice their POV: None has.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Because they haven't given him anything, and the only excuses they have is they simply cannot put it together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so what happens when a graded paper goes home?
Click to expand...


Several things:
1. The student is given the opportunity to discuss their progress
2. The parents can reward progress or remediate the situation
3. The teacher demonstrates they have evaluated learning
4. The school communicates with parents

I probably could think of a couple of other things, but none are negative.

Again, not rocket science.


----------



## sangha

Samson said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yank then out of public school and enroll them in a private school.
> 
> Start asking the principal for the papers see how that goes over.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, he'll probably ask me to go through him, but that was the plan all along if the teachers proved uncooperative.
> 
> I'm not spending money on private school.
Click to expand...


It's better to suck the publics' teats, right?


----------



## Samson

sangha said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yank then out of public school and enroll them in a private school.
> 
> Start asking the principal for the papers see how that goes over.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, he'll probably ask me to go through him, but that was the plan all along if the teachers proved uncooperative.
> 
> I'm not spending money on private school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's better to suck the publics' teats, right?
Click to expand...


I'm guessing you don't own property.

Once you graduate from whatever sad little course of study you may be engaged, you might, although frankly, its doubtful, be able to buy property, or become employed.

If this unlikely event occurs, you will pay state and/or local taxes. These funds are used primarily to support the local public schools (very little comes from the feds). You will pay these taxes even if your children go to private schools; indeed, you will pay them even if you have no children.

So, perhaps even you can figure out that it's a little economically stupid to choose not to make public schools better as the first recourse.

Now, as much as I appreciate your need to be spoon-fed at every intellectual turn, I'm afraid I have no additional motive to continue this, or any other conversation, with your moronic ass.


----------



## sangha

boedicca said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, Samson.  Where the hell do you get off even expecting that poor, underpaid, downtrodden teacher to show up to school at all?  You and your kid ought to handle this whole education thing yourselves without expecting any input from those poor teachers, y'damned slavedriver.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can I keep the district's school tax if I "handle this whole education thing" myself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what the unions fear most.
> 
> Just sayin'.
Click to expand...


No one is worrying about Sampson spending his own money on his childs' education. It will never happen. It costs money and it doesn't annoy anyone, so the passive-aggressive has no interest in it


----------



## Samson




----------



## sangha

Ravi said:


> It cracks me up that a tenth grader would have to get his parent to sign that said parent looked at the kid's assignment.
> 
> I can see this in elementary school, but high school?
> 
> Sometimes it is best to let your children *ahem* grow up and take responsibility for their own actions.



That's a concept helicopter parents can't understand.

No wonder children grow up to be irresponsibility. Growing up, their parents teach them that it's always someone else's fault

"My Precious Darling would never do that!"


----------



## sangha

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, I don't see why an English teacher, at any level, couldn't take 30 minutes out of the entire fucking week to give a goddamn vocabulary quiz, and every third week give a vocabulary test, comprised of the two previous quizzes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Were you still learning vocab in HS?
> 
> Here's a word for ya: REMEDIAL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really?
> 
> Have you seen the SAT test?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The SAT Reasoning Test is a long examination (three hours and forty-five minutes) and has three main divisions:
> 
> Math,
> Reading and
> Writing.
> There are 10 sections in all - three for each division, and one 'equating' section. The equating section is used to assess questions for use in future tests. (It can be in any of the three areas and does not count toward the score).
> 
> Apart from a short essay and ten out of the 54 math questions, the questions are all five-answer multiple-choice. Each of the divisions has a maximum score of 800, giving a maximum overall score of 2400
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Example:
> 
> 7. inchoate
> 
> a) loose
> 
> b) implicit
> 
> c) chaotic
> 
> d) incomplete
> 
> e) beginner
Click to expand...


Umm, the SAT does not measure scholastic achievement. Even the people who make the SAT admit it doesn't measure scholastic achievement

It measures how well someone will do in the first year of college


----------



## sangha

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll let you know, this Friday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suggestion:
> 
> Why don't you take a piece of paper and write on the top of it "Dad, this is what I learned in class this week..."?
> 
> You give it to your kid, he brings it to school for the teacher to mimeograph, and then in each class, he needs to write a short (250-500 words) essay as to what he learned in each of his classes that week.  The teacher would read it, and sign it if the child is correct in his assessment.
> 
> It could be like extra credit!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not a bad idea. Thanks, this will be "Plan B"
Click to expand...


Plan "A" = ask the Nanny State to raise my child for me


----------



## Cecilie1200

squeeze berry said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then there should be a good reason why, and it takes all of five seconds to scribble a note stating that reason and hand it to Samson Jr.  Quite frankly, I would have expected some sort of yearly or semester syllabus - or at least an outline - to have made an appearance at the beginning of the year so that the parents would be expecting the weeks full of lab work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why does there have to be a good reason?  How often should a child's education be assessed?  Should there be a quiz or "paper" every day?  If all the time is spent assessing what is learned, when is there time to learn?
> 
> And if the parent wants to micromanage their child's education, then maybe they should be putting some onus on the child to communicate with them and let them know what they are doing.
> 
> Seems to me like Samson is not actually interested in the grades or the papers, but more in just creating a hassle for everyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i agree with this. ^
> 
> After reading most of the OP's posts and the meeting Sampson conducted.
> 
> Sampson started making demands first week of class.
> 
> Wonder how he/she would react if someone went to his/her job and acted the same way.....
Click to expand...


There IS someone at Samson's job who started making demands the first week.  That person is called "Boss".

Exactly how far into the school year, in your estimation, should Samson allow these people to get in educating his child before it's okay for him to start wanting to track his progress?  Precisely how much time should they get to diddle around before being expected to produce something?  Because I'm going to guess that Samson, like most people who aren't government workers, was expected to show progress right from the beginning.


----------



## sangha

Samson said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think there are some really bad teachers out there; yet I know many dedicated, capable, competent educators too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well?
> 
> In your opinion does a good educator share with the parents of the student his or her progress more, or _less_ often?
> 
> You think that with teachers under fire, they'd want.... NO... _beg_ to have the greatest chances of looking good.
Click to expand...


The best educators spend ALL their time on the phone with their students parents telling them what brillinat kids they've spawned


----------



## sangha

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Truancy laws and fines for the parents that don't or won't care.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That might work for those that are ditching classes, but what about those that show up, but don't want to learn? It tends to hurt others to a degree, not small.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey, that's part of the _teacher's job_: To make students want to learn.
Click to expand...


Yes, it's the Nanny States job to indoctrinate HS student into having a thirst for learning in HS students


----------



## Samson

Cecilie1200 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why does there have to be a good reason?  How often should a child's education be assessed?  Should there be a quiz or "paper" every day?  If all the time is spent assessing what is learned, when is there time to learn?
> 
> And if the parent wants to micromanage their child's education, then maybe they should be putting some onus on the child to communicate with them and let them know what they are doing.
> 
> Seems to me like Samson is not actually interested in the grades or the papers, but more in just creating a hassle for everyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i agree with this. ^
> 
> After reading most of the OP's posts and the meeting Sampson conducted.
> 
> Sampson started making demands first week of class.
> 
> Wonder how he/she would react if someone went to his/her job and acted the same way.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There IS someone at Samson's job who started making demands the first week.  That person is called "Boss".
> 
> Exactly how far into the school year, in your estimation, should Samson allow these people to get in educating his child before it's okay for him to start wanting to track his progress?  Precisely how much time should they get to diddle around before being expected to produce something?  Because I'm going to guess that Samson, like most people who aren't government workers, was expected to show progress right from the beginning.
Click to expand...


Well, I didn't expect miracles, but for a small local bureaucracy to have required 90 days of proding was well beyond my expectation. This is especially true because: A. I wasn't asking for something that couldn't easily be implemented; B. I wasn't asking for something that had no direct relationship to education.

However, let's say I had waited a month to begin asking for weekly graded papers....It would now be the end of the semester (December) and the administration could (and has) changed all the teachers for next semester, effectively forcing me to _restart the process_.

As it is, having begun the process in August, even if the teachers respond this semester, there are very few weeks remaining.

Hopefully, the admin has learned their lesson, and it won't be necessary to go through this again; however, if we do need to restart the process, I predict there will be more, and higher quality barriers erected to prevent it from being implemented before the end of the school year.


----------



## sangha

xotoxi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Situation Update:
> 
> On Friday, October 8th, Six (6) weeks after my original request to see one graded paper/week/class, I received graded papers from every teacher.
> 
> I thanked them and looked forward to this week's issue.
> 
> It isn't easy to get what you want from schools, but it is possible if you know how to play the their game: _*DOCUMENT EVERYTHING.*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did you learn from the papers?
Click to expand...


Does it matter?

I don't think that was the point


----------



## Samson




----------



## sangha

Samson said:


> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, he'll probably ask me to go through him, but that was the plan all along if the teachers proved uncooperative.
> 
> I'm not spending money on private school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's better to suck the publics' teats, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm guessing you don't own property.
> 
> Once you graduate from whatever sad little course of study you may be engaged, you might, although frankly, its doubtful, be able to buy property, or become employed.
> 
> If this unlikely event occurs, you will pay state and/or local taxes. These funds are used primarily to support the local public schools (very little comes from the feds). You will pay these taxes even if your children go to private schools; indeed, you will pay them even if you have no children.
> 
> So, perhaps even you can figure out that it's a little economically stupid to choose not to make public schools better as the first recourse.
> 
> Now, as much as I appreciate your need to be spoon-fed at every intellectual turn, I'm afraid I have no additional motive to continue this, or any other conversation, with your moronic ass.
Click to expand...


If wingnuts didnt lie, they'd have nothing to say

Samson can't defend his culture of dependency, so he makes up stuff about what I own

Wingnut thinks it's "economically stupid" to have his child taught by competent teachers.

Your concern for your childs education is underwhelming, in spite of the enourmous investment of time (3 hours) you have made,


----------



## Ravi

sangha said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's better to suck the publics' teats, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing you don't own property.
> 
> Once you graduate from whatever sad little course of study you may be engaged, you might, although frankly, its doubtful, be able to buy property, or become employed.
> 
> If this unlikely event occurs, you will pay state and/or local taxes. These funds are used primarily to support the local public schools (very little comes from the feds). You will pay these taxes even if your children go to private schools; indeed, you will pay them even if you have no children.
> 
> So, perhaps even you can figure out that it's a little economically stupid to choose not to make public schools better as the first recourse.
> 
> Now, as much as I appreciate your need to be spoon-fed at every intellectual turn, I'm afraid I have no additional motive to continue this, or any other conversation, with your moronic ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If wingnuts didnt lie, they'd have nothing to say
> 
> Samson can't defend his culture of dependency, so he makes up stuff about what I own
> 
> Wingnut thinks it's "economically stupid" to have his child taught by competent teachers.
> 
> Your concern for your childs education is underwhelming, in spite of the enourmous investment of time (3 hours) you have made,
Click to expand...

Don't kid yourself...he's spent more time whining about it on this messageboard.


----------



## sangha

Cecilie1200 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why does there have to be a good reason?  How often should a child's education be assessed?  Should there be a quiz or "paper" every day?  If all the time is spent assessing what is learned, when is there time to learn?
> 
> And if the parent wants to micromanage their child's education, then maybe they should be putting some onus on the child to communicate with them and let them know what they are doing.
> 
> Seems to me like Samson is not actually interested in the grades or the papers, but more in just creating a hassle for everyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i agree with this. ^
> 
> After reading most of the OP's posts and the meeting Sampson conducted.
> 
> Sampson started making demands first week of class.
> 
> Wonder how he/she would react if someone went to his/her job and acted the same way.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There IS someone at Samson's job who started making demands the first week.  That person is called "Boss".
> 
> Exactly how far into the school year, in your estimation, should Samson allow these people to get in educating his child before it's okay for him to start wanting to track his progress?  Precisely how much time should they get to diddle around before being expected to produce something?  Because I'm going to guess that Samson, like most people who aren't government workers, was expected to show progress right from the beginning.
Click to expand...


Parents can and SHOULD start those things at the start of the school year, but that not the only things samson is doing. 

samson is also demand weekly graded reports. Parents have no right to demand that.

And samson hasn't been asked to show progress right from the beginning. samson hasn't been asked to do anything wrt his child.


----------



## ConHog

sangha said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> i agree with this. ^
> 
> After reading most of the OP's posts and the meeting Sampson conducted.
> 
> Sampson started making demands first week of class.
> 
> Wonder how he/she would react if someone went to his/her job and acted the same way.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There IS someone at Samson's job who started making demands the first week.  That person is called "Boss".
> 
> Exactly how far into the school year, in your estimation, should Samson allow these people to get in educating his child before it's okay for him to start wanting to track his progress?  Precisely how much time should they get to diddle around before being expected to produce something?  Because I'm going to guess that Samson, like most people who aren't government workers, was expected to show progress right from the beginning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Parents can and SHOULD start those things at the start of the school year, but that not the only things samson is doing.
> 
> samson is also demand weekly graded reports. Parents have no right to demand that.
> 
> And samson hasn't been asked to show progress right from the beginning. samson hasn't been asked to do anything wrt his child.
Click to expand...


Speaking as someone who actually sits on a school board and helps set such policies for an actual school I can tell you that you are wrong. Samson , or ANY parent has EVERY right to know how their child is doing in school. And frankly if the teachers at his child's school aren't grading papers on a weekly basis then how do THEY know how each child is doing, and if they don't know how each child is doing, how do they know what to teach?

Now if they ARE grading papers on a weekly basis, what is the problem with sending those graded papers home for Samson to review at the end of each week? Is Samson asking for a detailed written weekly report from each teacher, or a simple synopsis of his child's progress? 

I would vote to fire a teacher who wouldn't attempt to comply with a concerned parent's simple request.


----------



## kwc57

sangha said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> i agree with this. ^
> 
> After reading most of the OP's posts and the meeting Sampson conducted.
> 
> Sampson started making demands first week of class.
> 
> Wonder how he/she would react if someone went to his/her job and acted the same way.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There IS someone at Samson's job who started making demands the first week.  That person is called "Boss".
> 
> Exactly how far into the school year, in your estimation, should Samson allow these people to get in educating his child before it's okay for him to start wanting to track his progress?  Precisely how much time should they get to diddle around before being expected to produce something?  Because I'm going to guess that Samson, like most people who aren't government workers, was expected to show progress right from the beginning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Parents can and SHOULD start those things at the start of the school year, but that not the only things samson is doing.
> 
> samson is also demand weekly graded reports. Parents have no right to demand that.
> 
> And samson hasn't been asked to show progress right from the beginning. samson hasn't been asked to do anything wrt his child.
Click to expand...


No right?  You're a moron.  Our school system uses an online service where teachers post grades and parents can view it 24/7 to monitor progress.  I know my son has a 98 in this class.  If I didn't get any kind of feedback from the teacher and found out at the end of the semester that he flunked, I'd be pissed.  It would then be too late to address and correct any issues.  But you already knew that.

View attachment 12000

View attachment 12001


----------



## Foxfyre

kwc57 said:


> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There IS someone at Samson's job who started making demands the first week.  That person is called "Boss".
> 
> Exactly how far into the school year, in your estimation, should Samson allow these people to get in educating his child before it's okay for him to start wanting to track his progress?  Precisely how much time should they get to diddle around before being expected to produce something?  Because I'm going to guess that Samson, like most people who aren't government workers, was expected to show progress right from the beginning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Parents can and SHOULD start those things at the start of the school year, but that not the only things samson is doing.
> 
> samson is also demand weekly graded reports. Parents have no right to demand that.
> 
> And samson hasn't been asked to show progress right from the beginning. samson hasn't been asked to do anything wrt his child.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No right?  You're a moron.  Our school system uses an online service where teachers post grades and parents can view it 24/7 to monitor progress.  I know my son has a 98 in this class.  If I didn't get any kind of feedback from the teacher and found out at the end of the semester that he flunked, I'd be pissed.  It would then be too late to address and correct any issues.  But you already knew that.
Click to expand...


Exactly.  And I favor a parent/teacher orientation at the beginning of each school term in which the parents will hear from the teachers WHAT their kids will be learning.  And another way to verify that is to see those graded papers now and then.  How else do we know our kids are being educated and not indoctrinated or just shoehorned through with little or no effort required from them?

Seeing the grades is useful.  But I think these days it is important for parents to be even more proactive than that, and my hat is off to Samson who is choosing to actually parent his kids instead of just handing them over to the government to do with whatever it wants.


----------



## ConHog

kwc57 said:


> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There IS someone at Samson's job who started making demands the first week.  That person is called "Boss".
> 
> Exactly how far into the school year, in your estimation, should Samson allow these people to get in educating his child before it's okay for him to start wanting to track his progress?  Precisely how much time should they get to diddle around before being expected to produce something?  Because I'm going to guess that Samson, like most people who aren't government workers, was expected to show progress right from the beginning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Parents can and SHOULD start those things at the start of the school year, but that not the only things samson is doing.
> 
> samson is also demand weekly graded reports. Parents have no right to demand that.
> 
> And samson hasn't been asked to show progress right from the beginning. samson hasn't been asked to do anything wrt his child.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No right?  You're a moron.  Our school system uses an online service where teachers post grades and parents can view it 24/7 to monitor progress.  I know my son has a 98 in this class.  If I didn't get any kind of feedback from the teacher and found out at the end of the semester that he flunked, I'd be pissed.  It would then be too late to address and correct any issues.  But you already knew that.
> 
> View attachment 12000
> 
> View attachment 12001
Click to expand...


Edline?

We use that, most schools in Arkansas do.


----------



## kwc57

ConHog said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Parents can and SHOULD start those things at the start of the school year, but that not the only things samson is doing.
> 
> samson is also demand weekly graded reports. Parents have no right to demand that.
> 
> And samson hasn't been asked to show progress right from the beginning. samson hasn't been asked to do anything wrt his child.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No right?  You're a moron.  Our school system uses an online service where teachers post grades and parents can view it 24/7 to monitor progress.  I know my son has a 98 in this class.  If I didn't get any kind of feedback from the teacher and found out at the end of the semester that he flunked, I'd be pissed.  It would then be too late to address and correct any issues.  But you already knew that.
> 
> View attachment 12000
> 
> View attachment 12001
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Edline?
> 
> We use that, most schools in Arkansas do.
Click to expand...


No, Infinite Campus.  It also provides PDF's of the student's progress reports, report cards, transcript, attendance and missed reports as well as a link to each teacher's email address.

The only issue is the same as Samson's.  Most teachers keep it fairly current and a few don't.  You might go a couple of weeks without any update.


----------



## Samson

ConHog said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Parents can and SHOULD start those things at the start of the school year, but that not the only things samson is doing.
> 
> samson is also demand weekly graded reports. Parents have no right to demand that.
> 
> And samson hasn't been asked to show progress right from the beginning. samson hasn't been asked to do anything wrt his child.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No right?  You're a moron.  Our school system uses an online service where teachers post grades and parents can view it 24/7 to monitor progress.  I know my son has a 98 in this class.  If I didn't get any kind of feedback from the teacher and found out at the end of the semester that he flunked, I'd be pissed.  It would then be too late to address and correct any issues.  But you already knew that.
> 
> View attachment 12000
> 
> View attachment 12001
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Edline?
> 
> We use that, most schools in Arkansas do.
Click to expand...


We have the exact same thing: "Infinite Campus."

As i've pointed out, this is not a bad tool to have, but it doesn't replace the actual graded work; E.G. without the pretest, how do you help the kid study for a test? Without the quiz, how can you help the kid where they have weakness?

Frankly, though, I have come to realize that the quizes may be simply a paper numbered 1-10. I've actually seen this graded "+10." What am I to conclude? That the American History Teacher taught the students to number lines 1-10?

So, I'm begining to understand why teachers are reluctant to show papers that are ACTUALLY GRADED: It invites criticism about what they are teaching, or IF they are teaching.


----------



## kwc57

Samson said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No right?  You're a moron.  Our school system uses an online service where teachers post grades and parents can view it 24/7 to monitor progress.  I know my son has a 98 in this class.  If I didn't get any kind of feedback from the teacher and found out at the end of the semester that he flunked, I'd be pissed.  It would then be too late to address and correct any issues.  But you already knew that.
> 
> View attachment 12000
> 
> View attachment 12001
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edline?
> 
> We use that, most schools in Arkansas do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We have the exact same thing: "Infinite Campus."
> 
> As i've pointed out, this is not a bad tool to have, but it doesn't replace the actual graded work; E.G. without the pretest, how do you help the kid study for a test? Without the quiz, how can you help the kid where they have weakness?
> 
> Frankly, though, I have come to realize that the quizes may be simply a paper numbered 1-10. I've actually seen this graded "+10." What am I to conclude? That the American History Teacher taught the students to number lines 1-10?
> 
> So, I'm begining to understand why teachers are reluctant to show papers that are ACTUALLY GRADED: It invites criticism about what they are teaching, or IF they are teaching.
Click to expand...


It seems to be the way things are done more and more these days.  In our school system, the kids bring home documents at the beginning of the year that explains what will be covered over the year and the teacher's grading policy.  There is usually a classroom conduct policy from each teacher.  All of this has to be signed by the parent and the student and returned......for a grade......to make sure it is returned.  Then the kids keep "notebooks" with all the assignments and those are kept in the class room and periodically checked and graded.  Nothing comes home.  This all started in junior high.  In elementary school, they brought work home.  My son is a senior now and has been an A student since kindergarten and in the gifted program.  He often comes home and talks about what was discussed in class or what they are learning.  Since he has been a good student and displays his knowledge, I have tended to not take the route you have......but I fully understand and support it.  I'd prefer to actually see his work periodically.


----------



## saveliberty

I guess we don't have a right to complain since our kids get a free education.  Oh wait, we pay property taxes and state taxes that pay for that.  Gee, I guess we do have a right to question the quality of product we are purchasing.


----------



## Cecilie1200

ConHog said:


> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There IS someone at Samson's job who started making demands the first week.  That person is called "Boss".
> 
> Exactly how far into the school year, in your estimation, should Samson allow these people to get in educating his child before it's okay for him to start wanting to track his progress?  Precisely how much time should they get to diddle around before being expected to produce something?  Because I'm going to guess that Samson, like most people who aren't government workers, was expected to show progress right from the beginning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Parents can and SHOULD start those things at the start of the school year, but that not the only things samson is doing.
> 
> samson is also demand weekly graded reports. Parents have no right to demand that.
> 
> And samson hasn't been asked to show progress right from the beginning. samson hasn't been asked to do anything wrt his child.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Speaking as someone who actually sits on a school board and helps set such policies for an actual school I can tell you that you are wrong. Samson , or ANY parent has EVERY right to know how their child is doing in school. And frankly if the teachers at his child's school aren't grading papers on a weekly basis then how do THEY know how each child is doing, and if they don't know how each child is doing, how do they know what to teach?
> 
> Now if they ARE grading papers on a weekly basis, what is the problem with sending those graded papers home for Samson to review at the end of each week? Is Samson asking for a detailed written weekly report from each teacher, or a simple synopsis of his child's progress?
> 
> I would vote to fire a teacher who wouldn't attempt to comply with a concerned parent's simple request.
Click to expand...


I personally would want to know, if they're NOT doing graded papers on a weekly basis, what the fuck ARE they doing with their class time?  What exactly is happening in that classroom that doesn't involve any written work at all?


----------



## ConHog

Well, on the flip side of this , parents DO need to understand that part of the reason for not sending home paperwork and such is to help students make the transition to what they will encounter in college.

But if schools do like our HS has done this year and go totally digital and totally online then not only can students log on and do their homework at anytime, but parents can log on and view their child's work at anytime. We even have ours setup so that parents can view their child take their test. They can't communicate with the student of course, but they can view the child's computer while they take their test.  It's a really cool setup. Cuts down on the teachers' jobs to, all homework and tests are graded electronically (with the exception of essay questions of course.)

Not to mention our students love only having to carry a laptop around with them from class to class rather than multiple books , notebooks, paper, pencils, etc etc.


----------



## Ravi

I still find it hard to believe that parents need to micromanage a tenth grader.

These are the kids that will still be living at home when they are thirty because they can't take responsibility for their own lives.


----------



## chanel

I'm just baffled by where the papers go. I often grade and return papers before the students leave or the very next day.

My paperwork management style is OHIO - only handle it once. 

Honestly. I doubt if the kids are doing nothing. That would be chaos. So where do all the papers go????


----------



## Cecilie1200

saveliberty said:


> I guess we don't have a right to complain since our kids get a free education.  Oh wait, we pay property taxes and state taxes that pay for that.  Gee, I guess we do have a right to question the quality of product we are purchasing.



I don't frankly give a shit if someone sees it as me "purchasing" something or not.  We're talking about MY KID.  Mine.  Not theirs.  I have a right to question any fucking thing I want that relates to my kid, and anyone who thinks otherwise for any reason had best be prepared to go to DefCon One fast.


----------



## Cecilie1200

ConHog said:


> Well, on the flip side of this , parents DO need to understand that part of the reason for not sending home paperwork and such is to help students make the transition to what they will encounter in college.
> 
> But if schools do like our HS has done this year and go totally digital and totally online then not only can students log on and do their homework at anytime, but parents can log on and view their child's work at anytime. We even have ours setup so that parents can view their child take their test. They can't communicate with the student of course, but they can view the child's computer while they take their test.  It's a really cool setup. Cuts down on the teachers' jobs to, all homework and tests are graded electronically (with the exception of essay questions of course.)
> 
> Not to mention our students love only having to carry a laptop around with them from class to class rather than multiple books , notebooks, paper, pencils, etc etc.



I seem to recall having to write at least one paper a week for college classes.  For some classes, there was even more written work involved.

I have no problem at all with having all the work computerized.  I can still see it that way, which was Samson's point, too.


----------



## ConHog

Cecilie1200 said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, on the flip side of this , parents DO need to understand that part of the reason for not sending home paperwork and such is to help students make the transition to what they will encounter in college.
> 
> But if schools do like our HS has done this year and go totally digital and totally online then not only can students log on and do their homework at anytime, but parents can log on and view their child's work at anytime. We even have ours setup so that parents can view their child take their test. They can't communicate with the student of course, but they can view the child's computer while they take their test.  It's a really cool setup. Cuts down on the teachers' jobs to, all homework and tests are graded electronically (with the exception of essay questions of course.)
> 
> Not to mention our students love only having to carry a laptop around with them from class to class rather than multiple books , notebooks, paper, pencils, etc etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I seem to recall having to write at least one paper a week for college classes.  For some classes, there was even more written work involved.
> 
> I have no problem at all with having all the work computerized.  I can still see it that way, which was Samson's point, too.
Click to expand...


I was speaking about the way high schools start getting a student transitioned around the 10th grade, getting them used to the idea that mommy and daddy aren't looking over their shoulders to make sure they do their work. That is the idea behind not sending home the same amount of paperwork in the 10th grade as in the 7th grade, for example.


----------



## sangha

ConHog said:


> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There IS someone at Samson's job who started making demands the first week.  That person is called "Boss".
> 
> Exactly how far into the school year, in your estimation, should Samson allow these people to get in educating his child before it's okay for him to start wanting to track his progress?  Precisely how much time should they get to diddle around before being expected to produce something?  Because I'm going to guess that Samson, like most people who aren't government workers, was expected to show progress right from the beginning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Parents can and SHOULD start those things at the start of the school year, but that not the only things samson is doing.
> 
> samson is also demand weekly graded reports. Parents have no right to demand that.
> 
> And samson hasn't been asked to show progress right from the beginning. samson hasn't been asked to do anything wrt his child.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Speaking as someone who actually sits on a school board and helps set such policies for an actual school I can tell you that you are wrong. Samson , or ANY parent has EVERY right to know how their child is doing in school. And frankly if the teachers at his child's school aren't grading papers on a weekly basis then how do THEY know how each child is doing, and if they don't know how each child is doing, how do they know what to teach?
> 
> Now if they ARE grading papers on a weekly basis, what is the problem with sending those graded papers home for Samson to review at the end of each week? Is Samson asking for a detailed written weekly report from each teacher, or a simple synopsis of his child's progress?
> 
> I would vote to fire a teacher who wouldn't attempt to comply with a concerned parent's simple request.
Click to expand...


Yes, every parent has a right to know how their child is doing. No, parents do not have the right to demand that the status be in the form of graded papers/test/etc.

And from I've seen posted, there is good reason to believe that a HS student does NOT have a graded paper or test every week in every class. I know it wasn't like that for me in HS.

"I'd like to be informed about my childs performance on a weekly basis" is a reasonable request. "I demand that every teacher give graded assignements every week and send me my childs results" is not.


----------



## squeeze berry

Samson said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> i agree with this. ^
> 
> After reading most of the OP's posts and the meeting Sampson conducted.
> 
> Sampson started making demands first week of class.
> 
> Wonder how he/she would react if someone went to his/her job and acted the same way.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There IS someone at Samson's job who started making demands the first week.  That person is called "Boss".
> 
> Exactly how far into the school year, in your estimation, should Samson allow these people to get in educating his child before it's okay for him to start wanting to track his progress?  Precisely how much time should they get to diddle around before being expected to produce something?  Because I'm going to guess that Samson, like most people who aren't government workers, was expected to show progress right from the beginning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I didn't expect miracles, but for a small local bureaucracy to have required 90 days of proding was well beyond my expectation. This is especially true because: A. I wasn't asking for something that couldn't easily be implemented; B. I wasn't asking for something that had no direct relationship to education.
> 
> However, let's say I had waited a month to begin asking for weekly graded papers....It would now be the end of the semester (December) and the administration could (and has) changed all the teachers for next semester, effectively forcing me to _restart the process_.
> 
> As it is, having begun the process in August, even if the teachers respond this semester, there are very few weeks remaining.
> 
> Hopefully, the admin has learned their lesson, and it won't be necessary to go through this again; however, if we do need to restart the process, I predict there will be more, and higher quality barriers erected to prevent it from being implemented before the end of the school year.
Click to expand...


my guess is that if you had not acted like an ass from the beginning you would have received your request sooner.


----------



## squeeze berry

Cecilie1200 said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess we don't have a right to complain since our kids get a free education.  Oh wait, we pay property taxes and state taxes that pay for that.  Gee, I guess we do have a right to question the quality of product we are purchasing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't frankly give a shit if someone sees it as me "purchasing" something or not.  We're talking about MY KID.  Mine.  Not theirs.  I have a right to question any fucking thing I want that relates to my kid, and anyone who thinks otherwise for any reason had best be prepared to go to DefCon One fast.
Click to expand...


it's shit such as this ^ that has teachers leaving the profession in droves.

Parents have the attitude that they own the teacher instead of understanding that it's not as easy as getting up infront of a class room and talking for 90 minutes. 

You will teach to my specifications or you will go to def con one ! Yowza massa....

Try teaching 5 different subjects to 3 differeent levels of students and see how easy it is.

BTW, your child is not the only kid in the school.


----------



## Annie

squeeze berry said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess we don't have a right to complain since our kids get a free education.  Oh wait, we pay property taxes and state taxes that pay for that.  Gee, I guess we do have a right to question the quality of product we are purchasing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't frankly give a shit if someone sees it as me "purchasing" something or not.  We're talking about MY KID.  Mine.  Not theirs.  I have a right to question any fucking thing I want that relates to my kid, and anyone who thinks otherwise for any reason had best be prepared to go to DefCon One fast.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> it's shit such as this ^ that has teachers leaving the profession in droves.
> 
> Parents have the attitude that they own the teacher instead of understanding that it's not as easy as getting up infront of a class room and talking for 90 minutes.
> 
> You will teach to my specifications or you will go to def con one ! Yowza massa....
> 
> Try teaching 5 different subjects to 3 differeent levels of students and see how easy it is.
> 
> BTW, your child is not the only kid in the school.
Click to expand...


Funny thing, in many ways I agree that school districts need to take care not to enter into agreements with one parent that commit to providing IEP type agreements across the board. Samson disagrees with this, he has taught and was also an administrator. The student he is fighting for is on an IEP. 

Since you started posting, all I'm seeing is a defense of all that are the mantras of the worst teachers I know. Teaching is hard, but teachers knew that getting in or certainly within 2 months of beginning.


----------



## Samson

chanel said:


> I'm just baffled by where the papers go. I often grade and return papers before the students leave or the very next day.
> 
> My paperwork management style is OHIO - only handle it once.
> 
> Honestly. I doubt if the kids are doing nothing. That would be chaos. So where do all the papers go????



Agreed: I cannot imagine teachers NOT grading work, at LEAST once per week. On the other hand if they are, then WHERE are the papers? Not just one, or two, or three, but I've not seen papers for FOUR weeks in some classes!!


----------



## Samson

squeeze berry said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There IS someone at Samson's job who started making demands the first week.  That person is called "Boss".
> 
> Exactly how far into the school year, in your estimation, should Samson allow these people to get in educating his child before it's okay for him to start wanting to track his progress?  Precisely how much time should they get to diddle around before being expected to produce something?  Because I'm going to guess that Samson, like most people who aren't government workers, was expected to show progress right from the beginning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I didn't expect miracles, but for a small local bureaucracy to have required 90 days of proding was well beyond my expectation. This is especially true because: A. I wasn't asking for something that couldn't easily be implemented; B. I wasn't asking for something that had no direct relationship to education.
> 
> However, let's say I had waited a month to begin asking for weekly graded papers....It would now be the end of the semester (December) and the administration could (and has) changed all the teachers for next semester, effectively forcing me to _restart the process_.
> 
> As it is, having begun the process in August, even if the teachers respond this semester, there are very few weeks remaining.
> 
> Hopefully, the admin has learned their lesson, and it won't be necessary to go through this again; however, if we do need to restart the process, I predict there will be more, and higher quality barriers erected to prevent it from being implemented before the end of the school year.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> my guess is that if you had not acted like an ass from the beginning you would have received your request sooner.
Click to expand...


My guess is you haven't dealt much with bureaucracy.


----------



## Samson

kwc57 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Edline?
> 
> We use that, most schools in Arkansas do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have the exact same thing: "Infinite Campus."
> 
> As i've pointed out, this is not a bad tool to have, but it doesn't replace the actual graded work; E.G. without the pretest, how do you help the kid study for a test? Without the quiz, how can you help the kid where they have weakness?
> 
> Frankly, though, I have come to realize that the quizes may be simply a paper numbered 1-10. I've actually seen this graded "+10." What am I to conclude? That the American History Teacher taught the students to number lines 1-10?
> 
> So, I'm begining to understand why teachers are reluctant to show papers that are ACTUALLY GRADED: It invites criticism about what they are teaching, or IF they are teaching.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems to be the way things are done more and more these days.  In our school system, the kids bring home documents at the beginning of the year that explains what will be covered over the year and the teacher's grading policy.  There is usually a classroom conduct policy from each teacher.  All of this has to be signed by the parent and the student and returned......for a grade......to make sure it is returned.  Then the kids keep "notebooks" with all the assignments and those are kept in the class room and periodically checked and graded.  Nothing comes home.  This all started in junior high.  In elementary school, they brought work home.  My son is a senior now and has been an A student since kindergarten and in the gifted program.  He often comes home and talks about what was discussed in class or what they are learning.  Since he has been a good student and displays his knowledge, I have tended to not take the route you have......but I fully understand and support it.  I'd prefer to actually see his work periodically.
Click to expand...


I don't think you'll have what is often a common problem with kids you've described: The AP/Gifted/College Prep classes become havens for the "good kids," who are protected by their teachers with good grades.

If a teacher is given an AP class, the first thing they'll notice is the absence of serious behaviour problems. In fact, the relative maturity of these students make them a joy to see, much less teach, and even much much less give a grade of "C." Teachers that make sure these students get a "B" or above, will enjoy their company for the entire year. Teachers who give them a "C" risk having their AP classes decimated to the extent they may find themselves teaching REGULAR STUDENTS.

The coddled AP classes graduate, go to the university, and struggle (and even fail) through their freshman year.


----------



## Samson

ConHog said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, on the flip side of this , parents DO need to understand that part of the reason for not sending home paperwork and such is to help students make the transition to what they will encounter in college.
> 
> But if schools do like our HS has done this year and go totally digital and totally online then not only can students log on and do their homework at anytime, but parents can log on and view their child's work at anytime. We even have ours setup so that parents can view their child take their test. They can't communicate with the student of course, but they can view the child's computer while they take their test.  It's a really cool setup. Cuts down on the teachers' jobs to, all homework and tests are graded electronically (with the exception of essay questions of course.)
> 
> Not to mention our students love only having to carry a laptop around with them from class to class rather than multiple books , notebooks, paper, pencils, etc etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I seem to recall having to write at least one paper a week for college classes.  For some classes, there was even more written work involved.
> 
> I have no problem at all with having all the work computerized.  I can still see it that way, which was Samson's point, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was speaking about the way high schools start getting a student transitioned around the 10th grade, getting them used to the idea that mommy and daddy aren't looking over their shoulders to make sure they do their work. That is the idea behind not sending home the same amount of paperwork in the 10th grade as in the 7th grade, for example.
Click to expand...


At one time I would agree here.....but, I wonder how that's been working for us?

Have students become better prepared for college because parents are looking over their shoulders less?

Actually, I think it might be a better idea to have MORE parental involvement in high school, and LESS in Elementary.


----------



## Ravi

Samson said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have the exact same thing: "Infinite Campus."
> 
> As i've pointed out, this is not a bad tool to have, but it doesn't replace the actual graded work; E.G. without the pretest, how do you help the kid study for a test? Without the quiz, how can you help the kid where they have weakness?
> 
> Frankly, though, I have come to realize that the quizes may be simply a paper numbered 1-10. I've actually seen this graded "+10." What am I to conclude? That the American History Teacher taught the students to number lines 1-10?
> 
> So, I'm begining to understand why teachers are reluctant to show papers that are ACTUALLY GRADED: It invites criticism about what they are teaching, or IF they are teaching.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems to be the way things are done more and more these days.  In our school system, the kids bring home documents at the beginning of the year that explains what will be covered over the year and the teacher's grading policy.  There is usually a classroom conduct policy from each teacher.  All of this has to be signed by the parent and the student and returned......for a grade......to make sure it is returned.  Then the kids keep "notebooks" with all the assignments and those are kept in the class room and periodically checked and graded.  Nothing comes home.  This all started in junior high.  In elementary school, they brought work home.  My son is a senior now and has been an A student since kindergarten and in the gifted program.  He often comes home and talks about what was discussed in class or what they are learning.  Since he has been a good student and displays his knowledge, I have tended to not take the route you have......but I fully understand and support it.  I'd prefer to actually see his work periodically.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think you'll have what is often a common problem with kids you've described: The AP/Gifted/College Prep classes become havens for the "good kids," who are protected by their teachers with good grades.
> 
> If a teacher is given an AP class, the first thing they'll notice is the absence of serious behaviour problems. In fact, the relative maturity of these students make them a joy to see, much less teach, and even much much less give a grade of "C." Teachers that make sure these students get a "B" or above, will enjoy their company for the entire year. Teachers who give them a "C" risk having their AP classes decimated to the extent they may find themselves teaching REGULAR STUDENTS.
> 
> The coddled AP classes graduate, go to the university, and struggle (and even fail) through their freshman year.
Click to expand...

You're an idiot. Most teachers that teach AP classes also teach regular classes.

Your hatred of teachers is evident.


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't frankly give a shit if someone sees it as me "purchasing" something or not.  We're talking about MY KID.  Mine.  Not theirs.  I have a right to question any fucking thing I want that relates to my kid, and anyone who thinks otherwise for any reason had best be prepared to go to DefCon One fast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's shit such as this ^ that has teachers leaving the profession in droves.
> 
> Parents have the attitude that they own the teacher instead of understanding that it's not as easy as getting up infront of a class room and talking for 90 minutes.
> 
> You will teach to my specifications or you will go to def con one ! Yowza massa....
> 
> Try teaching 5 different subjects to 3 differeent levels of students and see how easy it is.
> 
> BTW, your child is not the only kid in the school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny thing, in many ways I agree that school districts need to take care not to enter into agreements with one parent that commit to providing IEP type agreements across the board. Samson disagrees with this, he has taught and was also an administrator. The student he is fighting for is on an IEP.
> 
> Since you started posting, all I'm seeing is a defense of all that are the mantras of the worst teachers I know. Teaching is hard, but teachers knew that getting in or certainly within 2 months of beginning.
Click to expand...



The IEP has nothing to do with my complaint, or the thread. It does not include anything I'm asking for, nor is it the motive for asking that one graded paper/week/class appear in front of me, unless the teacher, or student, or class has been unexpectedly absent.

I agree that school districts need to take care not to enter into agreements with one parent that commit to providing "IEP type agreements" across the board. But "taking care" does not mean ignoring basic teaching methods. I don't think that a school should need to "Enter into an agreement" _to teach_! 

Somehow, I was under the impression that it was understood,_* explicitely*_, that the school would teach? Have we entered a point in the declining status of public schools that we need to have some written documentation agreeing to use fundamental teaching methods to educate students?


----------



## sangha

Samson said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have the exact same thing: "Infinite Campus."
> 
> As i've pointed out, this is not a bad tool to have, but it doesn't replace the actual graded work; E.G. without the pretest, how do you help the kid study for a test? Without the quiz, how can you help the kid where they have weakness?
> 
> Frankly, though, I have come to realize that the quizes may be simply a paper numbered 1-10. I've actually seen this graded "+10." What am I to conclude? That the American History Teacher taught the students to number lines 1-10?
> 
> So, I'm begining to understand why teachers are reluctant to show papers that are ACTUALLY GRADED: It invites criticism about what they are teaching, or IF they are teaching.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems to be the way things are done more and more these days.  In our school system, the kids bring home documents at the beginning of the year that explains what will be covered over the year and the teacher's grading policy.  There is usually a classroom conduct policy from each teacher.  All of this has to be signed by the parent and the student and returned......for a grade......to make sure it is returned.  Then the kids keep "notebooks" with all the assignments and those are kept in the class room and periodically checked and graded.  Nothing comes home.  This all started in junior high.  In elementary school, they brought work home.  My son is a senior now and has been an A student since kindergarten and in the gifted program.  He often comes home and talks about what was discussed in class or what they are learning.  Since he has been a good student and displays his knowledge, I have tended to not take the route you have......but I fully understand and support it.  I'd prefer to actually see his work periodically.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think you'll have what is often a common problem with kids you've described: The AP/Gifted/College Prep classes become havens for the "good kids," who are protected by their teachers with good grades.
> 
> If a teacher is given an AP class, the first thing they'll notice is the absence of serious behaviour problems. In fact, the relative maturity of these students make them a joy to see, much less teach, and even much much less give a grade of "C." Teachers that make sure these students get a "B" or above, will enjoy their company for the entire year. Teachers who give them a "C" risk having their AP classes decimated to the extent they may find themselves teaching REGULAR STUDENTS.
> 
> The coddled AP classes graduate, go to the university, and struggle (and even fail) through their freshman year.
Click to expand...


Wingnut sure has a lot of problems understanding why AP students get A's and B's. 

Wingnut thinks it's a racket.

They get the best marks, because they are the best students.


----------



## sangha

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> it's shit such as this ^ that has teachers leaving the profession in droves.
> 
> Parents have the attitude that they own the teacher instead of understanding that it's not as easy as getting up infront of a class room and talking for 90 minutes.
> 
> You will teach to my specifications or you will go to def con one ! Yowza massa....
> 
> Try teaching 5 different subjects to 3 differeent levels of students and see how easy it is.
> 
> BTW, your child is not the only kid in the school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny thing, in many ways I agree that school districts need to take care not to enter into agreements with one parent that commit to providing IEP type agreements across the board. Samson disagrees with this, he has taught and was also an administrator. The student he is fighting for is on an IEP.
> 
> Since you started posting, all I'm seeing is a defense of all that are the mantras of the worst teachers I know. Teaching is hard, but teachers knew that getting in or certainly within 2 months of beginning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The IEP has nothing to do with my complaint, or the thread. It does not include anything I'm asking for, nor is it the motive for asking that one graded paper/week/class appear in front of me, unless the teacher, or student, or class has been unexpectedly absent.
> 
> I agree that school districts need to take care not to enter into agreements with one parent that commit to providing "IEP type agreements" across the board. But "taking care" does not mean ignoring basic teaching methods. I don't think that a school should need to "Enter into an agreement" _to teach_!
> 
> Somehow, I was under the impression that it was understood,_* explicitely*_, that the school would teach? Have we entered a point in the declining status of public schools that we need to have some written documentation agreeing to use fundamental teaching methods to educate students?
Click to expand...


If the IEP has nothing to do with this, then thanks for letting us know that you're as big a fool as you are an ass. The IEP is exactly where any requests for "individualized" demands, such as yours, should be spelled out.

And I don't know why you're ranting about basic teaching methods. I thought this was about one child, and not about the curriculum and pedagogy.


----------



## squeeze berry

Samson said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I didn't expect miracles, but for a small local bureaucracy to have required 90 days of proding was well beyond my expectation. This is especially true because: A. I wasn't asking for something that couldn't easily be implemented; B. I wasn't asking for something that had no direct relationship to education.
> 
> However, let's say I had waited a month to begin asking for weekly graded papers....It would now be the end of the semester (December) and the administration could (and has) changed all the teachers for next semester, effectively forcing me to _restart the process_.
> 
> As it is, having begun the process in August, even if the teachers respond this semester, there are very few weeks remaining.
> 
> Hopefully, the admin has learned their lesson, and it won't be necessary to go through this again; however, if we do need to restart the process, I predict there will be more, and higher quality barriers erected to prevent it from being implemented before the end of the school year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my guess is that if you had not acted like an ass from the beginning you would have received your request sooner.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My guess is you haven't dealt much with bureaucracy.
Click to expand...

your guess would be wrong


----------



## squeeze berry

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> it's shit such as this ^ that has teachers leaving the profession in droves.
> 
> Parents have the attitude that they own the teacher instead of understanding that it's not as easy as getting up infront of a class room and talking for 90 minutes.
> 
> You will teach to my specifications or you will go to def con one ! Yowza massa....
> 
> Try teaching 5 different subjects to 3 differeent levels of students and see how easy it is.
> 
> BTW, your child is not the only kid in the school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny thing, in many ways I agree that school districts need to take care not to enter into agreements with one parent that commit to providing IEP type agreements across the board. Samson disagrees with this, he has taught and was also an administrator. The student he is fighting for is on an IEP.
> 
> Since you started posting, all I'm seeing is a defense of all that are the mantras of the worst teachers I know. Teaching is hard, but teachers knew that getting in or certainly within 2 months of beginning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The IEP has nothing to do with my complaint, or the thread. It does not include anything I'm asking for, nor is it the motive for asking that one graded paper/week/class appear in front of me, unless the teacher, or student, or class has been unexpectedly absent.
> 
> I agree that school districts need to take care not to enter into agreements with one parent that commit to providing "IEP type agreements" across the board. But "taking care" does not mean ignoring basic teaching methods. I don't think that a school should need to "Enter into an agreement" _to teach_!
> 
> Somehow, I was under the impression that it was understood,_* explicitely*_, that the school would teach? Have we entered a point in the declining status of public schools that we need to have some written documentation agreeing to use fundamental teaching methods to educate students?
Click to expand...


I'm certain they are teaching, but obviously not to your specific demands, and i mean demands.....


----------



## squeeze berry

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> it's shit such as this ^ that has teachers leaving the profession in droves.
> 
> Parents have the attitude that they own the teacher instead of understanding that it's not as easy as getting up infront of a class room and talking for 90 minutes.
> 
> You will teach to my specifications or you will go to def con one ! Yowza massa....
> 
> Try teaching 5 different subjects to 3 differeent levels of students and see how easy it is.
> 
> BTW, your child is not the only kid in the school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny thing, in many ways I agree that school districts need to take care not to enter into agreements with one parent that commit to providing IEP type agreements across the board. Samson disagrees with this, he has taught and was also an administrator. The student he is fighting for is on an IEP.
> 
> Since you started posting, all I'm seeing is a defense of all that are the mantras of the worst teachers I know. Teaching is hard, but teachers knew that getting in or certainly within 2 months of beginning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The IEP has nothing to do with my complaint, or the thread. It does not include anything I'm asking for, nor is it the motive for asking that one graded paper/week/class appear in front of me, unless the teacher, or student, or class has been unexpectedly absent.
> 
> I agree that school districts need to take care not to enter into agreements with one parent that commit to providing "IEP type agreements" across the board. But "taking care" does not mean ignoring basic teaching methods. I don't think that a school should need to "Enter into an agreement" _to teach_!
> 
> Somehow, I was under the impression that it was understood,_* explicitely*_, that the school would teach? Have we entered a point in the declining status of public schools that we need to have some written documentation agreeing to use fundamental teaching methods to educate students?
Click to expand...


in addition the IEP does not give you carte blanche.

Little tard Sampson does not get a free pass nor does big tard Sampson


----------



## squeeze berry

Annie said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't frankly give a shit if someone sees it as me "purchasing" something or not.  We're talking about MY KID.  Mine.  Not theirs.  I have a right to question any fucking thing I want that relates to my kid, and anyone who thinks otherwise for any reason had best be prepared to go to DefCon One fast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's shit such as this ^ that has teachers leaving the profession in droves.
> 
> Parents have the attitude that they own the teacher instead of understanding that it's not as easy as getting up infront of a class room and talking for 90 minutes.
> 
> You will teach to my specifications or you will go to def con one ! Yowza massa....
> 
> Try teaching 5 different subjects to 3 differeent levels of students and see how easy it is.
> 
> BTW, your child is not the only kid in the school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny thing, in many ways I agree that school districts need to take care not to enter into agreements with one parent that commit to providing IEP type agreements across the board. Samson disagrees with this, he has taught and was also an administrator. The student he is fighting for is on an IEP.
> 
> Since you started posting, all I'm seeing is a defense of all that are the mantras of the worst teachers I know. Teaching is hard, but teachers knew that getting in or certainly within 2 months of beginning.
Click to expand...


I'm a sped teacher


----------



## Samson

squeeze berry said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny thing, in many ways I agree that school districts need to take care not to enter into agreements with one parent that commit to providing IEP type agreements across the board. Samson disagrees with this, he has taught and was also an administrator. The student he is fighting for is on an IEP.
> 
> Since you started posting, all I'm seeing is a defense of all that are the mantras of the worst teachers I know. Teaching is hard, but teachers knew that getting in or certainly within 2 months of beginning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The IEP has nothing to do with my complaint, or the thread. It does not include anything I'm asking for, nor is it the motive for asking that one graded paper/week/class appear in front of me, unless the teacher, or student, or class has been unexpectedly absent.
> 
> I agree that school districts need to take care not to enter into agreements with one parent that commit to providing "IEP type agreements" across the board. But "taking care" does not mean ignoring basic teaching methods. I don't think that a school should need to "Enter into an agreement" _to teach_!
> 
> Somehow, I was under the impression that it was understood,_* explicitely*_, that the school would teach? Have we entered a point in the declining status of public schools that we need to have some written documentation agreeing to use fundamental teaching methods to educate students?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> in addition the IEP does not give you carte blanche.
> 
> Little tard Sampson does not get a free pass nor does big tard Sampson
Click to expand...


Try reading:
"The IEP has nothing to do with my complaint, or the thread."

You sure you are not a SpEd_ STUDENT_ and not a teacher?

You seem to be easily confused, even for a n00b. I bet if you spent less time whinging about how difficult life is, and went back to flipping hamburgers at Micky D's, then you'd be a whole lot happier....call up you case worker and bounce the idea off them: I'm sure they'll enthusiastically agree that you were never really qualified to teach.


----------



## squeeze berry

Samson said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> The IEP has nothing to do with my complaint, or the thread. It does not include anything I'm asking for, nor is it the motive for asking that one graded paper/week/class appear in front of me, unless the teacher, or student, or class has been unexpectedly absent.
> 
> I agree that school districts need to take care not to enter into agreements with one parent that commit to providing "IEP type agreements" across the board. But "taking care" does not mean ignoring basic teaching methods. I don't think that a school should need to "Enter into an agreement" _to teach_!
> 
> Somehow, I was under the impression that it was understood,_* explicitely*_, that the school would teach? Have we entered a point in the declining status of public schools that we need to have some written documentation agreeing to use fundamental teaching methods to educate students?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> in addition the IEP does not give you carte blanche.
> 
> Little tard Sampson does not get a free pass nor does big tard Sampson
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Try reading:
> "The IEP has nothing to do with my complaint, or the thread."
> 
> You sure you are not a SpEd_ STUDENT_ and not a teacher?
> 
> You seem to be easily confused, even for a n00b. I bet if you spent less time whinging about how difficult life is, and went back to flipping hamburgers at Micky D's, then you'd be a whole lot happier....call up you case worker and bounce the idea off them: I'm sure they'll enthusiastically agree that you were never really qualified to teach.
Click to expand...


with two masters degrees I'm certain I have the qualifications.
In addition i could kick your ass


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> The IEP has nothing to do with my complaint, or the thread. It does not include anything I'm asking for, nor is it the motive for asking that one graded paper/week/class appear in front of me, unless the teacher, or student, or class has been unexpectedly absent.
> 
> I agree that school districts need to take care not to enter into agreements with one parent that commit to providing "IEP type agreements" across the board. But "taking care" does not mean ignoring basic teaching methods. I don't think that a school should need to "Enter into an agreement" _to teach_!
> 
> Somehow, I was under the impression that it was understood,_* explicitely*_, that the school would teach? Have we entered a point in the declining status of public schools that we need to have some written documentation agreeing to use fundamental teaching methods to educate students?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> in addition the IEP does not give you carte blanche.
> 
> Little tard Sampson does not get a free pass nor does big tard Sampson
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Try reading:
> "The IEP has nothing to do with my complaint, or the thread."
> 
> You sure you are not a SpEd_ STUDENT_ and not a teacher?
> 
> You seem to be easily confused, even for a n00b. I bet if you spent less time whinging about how difficult life is, and went back to flipping hamburgers at Micky D's, then you'd be a whole lot happier....call up you case worker and bounce the idea off them: I'm sure they'll enthusiastically agree that you were never really qualified to teach.
Click to expand...

so is squeezberry a teacher? Yes or no in your opinion, Samson? My guess is yes, in a failing district.

To respond to your earlier post to me, you know that our methodologies are different. I will say that your jump at bell ringers at end of class shut me down in how to respond to you. While I would assume the differences are between subjects, I believe you think it's a matter of competency. 

You will be glad to know that I'm now just substituting, not teaching. After 11 years teaching in parochial schools, I was rif'd. While your child isn't in private, I'm guessing you are saying alleluia, that other kids won't be stuck with me. Funny thing, I've earned awards and have had 15 kids get into highly selective colleges and thank me personally and in publications. 

My classes were taught as units, which you seem to disagree with. My assessments were daily, but included oral responses, but at least 3 out of 5 days included either end of class response or quick quizzes. Problem for you that I discerned, would be that these often were subjective in the students' responses. So there wouldn't be a grade, but would allow me to discuss the next day. In a real sense their responses caused change in my lesson plans in order to meet my objectives. 

From what I could tell, you wouldn't have found that acceptable. On the other hand, if I'd have an IEP kid in my class, (and over the years I did have some), I'd have sent home my lecture notes, the question, and their response. 

If I'd have the notice from the office of what you wanted, that would have been my response to you and what I'd have provided you with, along with any other written materials your son/daughter had done. I don't agree that you come off as a jerk, but I will agree that you make it very difficult to communicate with, in the sense that you seem to bully.


----------



## squeeze berry

no....... ^ I'm a sped teacher in one of the more successful school clusters in the world


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> in addition the IEP does not give you carte blanche.
> 
> Little tard Sampson does not get a free pass nor does big tard Sampson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try reading:
> "The IEP has nothing to do with my complaint, or the thread."
> 
> You sure you are not a SpEd_ STUDENT_ and not a teacher?
> 
> You seem to be easily confused, even for a n00b. I bet if you spent less time whinging about how difficult life is, and went back to flipping hamburgers at Micky D's, then you'd be a whole lot happier....call up you case worker and bounce the idea off them: I'm sure they'll enthusiastically agree that you were never really qualified to teach.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so is squeezberry a teacher? Yes or no in your opinion, Samson? My guess is yes, in a failing district.
> 
> To respond to your earlier post to me, you know that our methodologies are different. I will say that your jump at bell ringers at end of class shut me down in how to respond to you. While I would assume the differences are between subjects, I believe you think it's a matter of competency.
> 
> You will be glad to know that I'm now just substituting, not teaching. After 11 years teaching in parochial schools, I was rif'd. While your child isn't in private, I'm guessing you are saying alleluia, that other kids won't be stuck with me. Funny thing, I've earned awards and have had 15 kids get into highly selective colleges and thank me personally and in publications.
> 
> My classes were taught as units, which you seem to disagree with. My assessments were daily, but included oral responses, but at least 3 out of 5 days included either end of class response or quick quizzes. Problem for you that I discerned, would be that these often were subjective in the students' responses. So there wouldn't be a grade, but would allow me to discuss the next day. In a real sense their responses caused change in my lesson plans in order to meet my objectives.
> 
> From what I could tell, you wouldn't have found that acceptable. On the other hand, if I'd have an IEP kid in my class, (and over the years I did have some), I'd have sent home my lecture notes, the question, and their response.
> 
> If I'd have the notice from the office of what you wanted, that would have been my response to you and what I'd have provided you with, along with any other written materials your son/daughter had done. I don't agree that you come off as a jerk, but I will agree that you make it very difficult to communicate with, in the sense that you seem to bully.
Click to expand...


There really is no other way to deal with intractable bureaucracy: Remember, I expressed my expectations for a MONTH before the meeting. I imagine that had I politely asked, the time-line would have been drawn even longer. Plus, I would not have gained the rep.

For some odd reason, you keep mentioning the IEP, which has absolutely nothing to do with the complaint? I would make the same complaint, in fact would make the complaint even more emphatically, if the student was my younger son, who may be a Freshman next year at this school. It is my intent not only form a reputation as the most unpleasent parent to deal with, but one with whom teachers probably don't want to fuck around with when I ask for a simple goddamn graded paper to appear each week.

They have a choice: Produce what I want, or have a formal complaint placed into their file.

Pretty simple, regardless of whether or not its called "bullying," which could be the name attached to anyone for whom you must comply.

My guess is you were riff'd to save money. Teaching credentials like the ones you've described are valuable, and a rich society is willing to pay for them. Unhappily, you, and maybe me, and a whole lot of others are going to find themselves more expensive to employ than anyone can afford.


----------



## squeeze berry

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Try reading:
> "The IEP has nothing to do with my complaint, or the thread."
> 
> You sure you are not a SpEd_ STUDENT_ and not a teacher?
> 
> You seem to be easily confused, even for a n00b. I bet if you spent less time whinging about how difficult life is, and went back to flipping hamburgers at Micky D's, then you'd be a whole lot happier....call up you case worker and bounce the idea off them: I'm sure they'll enthusiastically agree that you were never really qualified to teach.
> 
> 
> 
> so is squeezberry a teacher? Yes or no in your opinion, Samson? My guess is yes, in a failing district.
> 
> To respond to your earlier post to me, you know that our methodologies are different. I will say that your jump at bell ringers at end of class shut me down in how to respond to you. While I would assume the differences are between subjects, I believe you think it's a matter of competency.
> 
> You will be glad to know that I'm now just substituting, not teaching. After 11 years teaching in parochial schools, I was rif'd. While your child isn't in private, I'm guessing you are saying alleluia, that other kids won't be stuck with me. Funny thing, I've earned awards and have had 15 kids get into highly selective colleges and thank me personally and in publications.
> 
> My classes were taught as units, which you seem to disagree with. My assessments were daily, but included oral responses, but at least 3 out of 5 days included either end of class response or quick quizzes. Problem for you that I discerned, would be that these often were subjective in the students' responses. So there wouldn't be a grade, but would allow me to discuss the next day. In a real sense their responses caused change in my lesson plans in order to meet my objectives.
> 
> From what I could tell, you wouldn't have found that acceptable. On the other hand, if I'd have an IEP kid in my class, (and over the years I did have some), I'd have sent home my lecture notes, the question, and their response.
> 
> If I'd have the notice from the office of what you wanted, that would have been my response to you and what I'd have provided you with, along with any other written materials your son/daughter had done. I don't agree that you come off as a jerk, but I will agree that you make it very difficult to communicate with, in the sense that you seem to bully.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There really is no other way to deal with intractable bureaucracy: Remember, I expressed my expectations for a MONTH before the meeting. I imagine that had I politely asked, the time-line would have been drawn even longer. Plus, I would not have gained the rep.
> 
> For some odd reason, you keep mentioning the IEP, which has absolutely nothing to do with the complaint? I would make the same complaint, in fact would make the complaint even more emphatically, if the student was my younger son, who may be a Freshman next year at this school. It is my intent not only form a reputation as the most unpleasent parent to deal with, but one with whom teachers probably don't want to fuck around with when I ask for a simple goddamn graded paper to appear each week.
> 
> They have a choice: Produce what I want, or have a formal complaint placed into their file.
> 
> Pretty simple, regardless of whether or not its called "bullying," which could be the name attached to anyone for whom you must comply.
> 
> My guess is you were riff'd to save money. Teaching credentials like the ones you've described are valuable, and a rich society is willing to pay for them. Unhappily, you, and maybe me, and a whole lot of others are going to find themselves more expensive to employ than anyone can afford.
Click to expand...


I would consider it an honor to kick your ass


----------



## Samson

squeeze berry said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> so is squeezberry a teacher? Yes or no in your opinion, Samson? My guess is yes, in a failing district.
> 
> To respond to your earlier post to me, you know that our methodologies are different. I will say that your jump at bell ringers at end of class shut me down in how to respond to you. While I would assume the differences are between subjects, I believe you think it's a matter of competency.
> 
> You will be glad to know that I'm now just substituting, not teaching. After 11 years teaching in parochial schools, I was rif'd. While your child isn't in private, I'm guessing you are saying alleluia, that other kids won't be stuck with me. Funny thing, I've earned awards and have had 15 kids get into highly selective colleges and thank me personally and in publications.
> 
> My classes were taught as units, which you seem to disagree with. My assessments were daily, but included oral responses, but at least 3 out of 5 days included either end of class response or quick quizzes. Problem for you that I discerned, would be that these often were subjective in the students' responses. So there wouldn't be a grade, but would allow me to discuss the next day. In a real sense their responses caused change in my lesson plans in order to meet my objectives.
> 
> From what I could tell, you wouldn't have found that acceptable. On the other hand, if I'd have an IEP kid in my class, (and over the years I did have some), I'd have sent home my lecture notes, the question, and their response.
> 
> If I'd have the notice from the office of what you wanted, that would have been my response to you and what I'd have provided you with, along with any other written materials your son/daughter had done. I don't agree that you come off as a jerk, but I will agree that you make it very difficult to communicate with, in the sense that you seem to bully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no other way to deal with intractable bureaucracy: Remember, I expressed my expectations for a MONTH before the meeting. I imagine that had I politely asked, the time-line would have been drawn even longer. Plus, I would not have gained the rep.
> 
> For some odd reason, you keep mentioning the IEP, which has absolutely nothing to do with the complaint? I would make the same complaint, in fact would make the complaint even more emphatically, if the student was my younger son, who may be a Freshman next year at this school. It is my intent not only form a reputation as the most unpleasent parent to deal with, but one with whom teachers probably don't want to fuck around with when I ask for a simple goddamn graded paper to appear each week.
> 
> They have a choice: Produce what I want, or have a formal complaint placed into their file.
> 
> Pretty simple, regardless of whether or not its called "bullying," which could be the name attached to anyone for whom you must comply.
> 
> My guess is you were riff'd to save money. Teaching credentials like the ones you've described are valuable, and a rich society is willing to pay for them. Unhappily, you, and maybe me, and a whole lot of others are going to find themselves more expensive to employ than anyone can afford.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would consider it an honor to kick your ass
Click to expand...


Sounds like you'd better give the psychiatrist a call to increase your anit-psychotic meds. I'm guessing if you'd increase the dose on your RISPERDAL from 3 mg/d to 4 mg/d you'll feel a little better. Also you seem more than a tad depressed. Try to get a 'script for LEXAPRO.

Otherwise, as I suspect, you can keep drinking yourself into a idiots stupor every evening. *Edited for Content. Per Administration.*


----------



## squeeze berry

Samson said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no other way to deal with intractable bureaucracy: Remember, I expressed my expectations for a MONTH before the meeting. I imagine that had I politely asked, the time-line would have been drawn even longer. Plus, I would not have gained the rep.
> 
> For some odd reason, you keep mentioning the IEP, which has absolutely nothing to do with the complaint? I would make the same complaint, in fact would make the complaint even more emphatically, if the student was my younger son, who may be a Freshman next year at this school. It is my intent not only form a reputation as the most unpleasent parent to deal with, but one with whom teachers probably don't want to fuck around with when I ask for a simple goddamn graded paper to appear each week.
> 
> They have a choice: Produce what I want, or have a formal complaint placed into their file.
> 
> Pretty simple, regardless of whether or not its called "bullying," which could be the name attached to anyone for whom you must comply.
> 
> My guess is you were riff'd to save money. Teaching credentials like the ones you've described are valuable, and a rich society is willing to pay for them. Unhappily, you, and maybe me, and a whole lot of others are going to find themselves more expensive to employ than anyone can afford.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would consider it an honor to kick your ass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sounds like you'd better give the psychiatrist a call to increase your anit-psychotic meds. I'm guessing if you'd increase the dose on your RISPERDAL from 3 mg/d to 4 mg/d you'll feel a little better. Also you seem more than a tad depressed. Try to get a 'script for LEXAPRO.
> 
> Otherwise, as I suspect, you can keep drinking yourself into a idiots stupor every evening. In this case, you should also take a handful of sleeping pills, and save yourself and society a lot of time, money, and effort trying to rehabilitate you into a functional adult.
Click to expand...


so, you have no intelligent reply.?

 figures.....


----------



## Samson

squeeze berry said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would consider it an honor to kick your ass
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you'd better give the psychiatrist a call to increase your anit-psychotic meds. I'm guessing if you'd increase the dose on your RISPERDAL from 3 mg/d to 4 mg/d you'll feel a little better. Also you seem more than a tad depressed. Try to get a 'script for LEXAPRO.
> 
> Otherwise, as I suspect, you can keep drinking yourself into a idiot's stupor every evening.         *Edited for Content. Per Administration.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so, you have no intelligent reply.?
> 
> figures.....
Click to expand...


Have another Vodka shot: It will get better.

No AMBIEN in the house?

You can probably pick some up tonight.


----------



## RadiomanATL

squeeze berry said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would consider it an honor to kick your ass
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you'd better give the psychiatrist a call to increase your anit-psychotic meds. I'm guessing if you'd increase the dose on your RISPERDAL from 3 mg/d to 4 mg/d you'll feel a little better. Also you seem more than a tad depressed. Try to get a 'script for LEXAPRO.
> 
> Otherwise, as I suspect, you can keep drinking yourself into a idiots stupor every evening.      *Edited for Content. Per Administration.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so, you have no intelligent reply.?
> 
> figures.....
Click to expand...


What the hell kind of intelligent reply were you expecting from "I would consider it an honor to kick your ass"??


----------



## squeeze berry

Samson said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you'd better give the psychiatrist a call to increase your anit-psychotic meds. I'm guessing if you'd increase the dose on your RISPERDAL from 3 mg/d to 4 mg/d you'll feel a little better. Also you seem more than a tad depressed. Try to get a 'script for LEXAPRO.
> 
> Otherwise, as I suspect, you can keep drinking yourself into a idiot's stupor every evening.              *Edited for Content. Per Administration.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so, you have no intelligent reply.?
> 
> figures.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have another Vodka shot: It will get better.
> 
> No AMBIEN in the house?
> 
> You can probably pick some up tonight.
Click to expand...


*Edited-No Family Attacks.*


----------



## Ravi

Annie said:


> I don't agree that you come off as a jerk, but I will agree that you make it very difficult to communicate with, in the sense that you seem to bully.


What's the difference?


----------



## Samson

RadiomanATL said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you'd better give the psychiatrist a call to increase your anit-psychotic meds. I'm guessing if you'd increase the dose on your RISPERDAL from 3 mg/d to 4 mg/d you'll feel a little better. Also you seem more than a tad depressed. Try to get a 'script for LEXAPRO.
> 
> Otherwise, as I suspect, you can keep drinking yourself into a idiots stupor every evening.         *Edited for Content. Per Administration.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so, you have no intelligent reply.?
> 
> figures.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the hell kind of intelligent reply were you expecting from "I would consider it an honor to kick your ass"??
Click to expand...


You haven't dealt with many mentally ill drunks, have you.

Don't try to reason with them, just point them at the door, and keep them walking toward it, and hope they drink themself into oblivion before you have to rinse, wash, repeat.


----------



## saveliberty

Just what I was thinking RadiomanATL.  Sounds like Samson pegged this loser.  Berries isn't even a good troll.  No GED, what is a bearly functioning adult like him supposed to do?


----------



## RadiomanATL

saveliberty said:


> Just what I was thinking RadiomanATL.  Sounds like Samson pegged this loser.  Berries isn't even a good troll.  No GED, what is a bearly functioning adult like him supposed to do?



I don't know what is going on with this fight. It just seemed to me that criticizing Samson's reply to that post by saying "So you have no intelligent reply" seemed kinda beyond stupid.


----------



## Samson

RadiomanATL said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just what I was thinking RadiomanATL.  Sounds like Samson pegged this loser.  Berries isn't even a good troll.  No GED, what is a bearly functioning adult like him supposed to do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what is going on with this fight. It just seemed to me that criticizing Samson's reply to that post by saying "So you have no intelligent reply" seemed kinda beyond stupid.
Click to expand...


That's why I genuinely believe we're dealing with the mentally impaired, not just some average troll.


----------



## saveliberty

Since when are we classifying crack smokers and meth users as mentally impaired?


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Try reading:
> "The IEP has nothing to do with my complaint, or the thread."
> 
> You sure you are not a SpEd_ STUDENT_ and not a teacher?
> 
> You seem to be easily confused, even for a n00b. I bet if you spent less time whinging about how difficult life is, and went back to flipping hamburgers at Micky D's, then you'd be a whole lot happier....call up you case worker and bounce the idea off them: I'm sure they'll enthusiastically agree that you were never really qualified to teach.
> 
> 
> 
> so is squeezberry a teacher? Yes or no in your opinion, Samson? My guess is yes, in a failing district.
> 
> To respond to your earlier post to me, you know that our methodologies are different. I will say that your jump at bell ringers at end of class shut me down in how to respond to you. While I would assume the differences are between subjects, I believe you think it's a matter of competency.
> 
> You will be glad to know that I'm now just substituting, not teaching. After 11 years teaching in parochial schools, I was rif'd. While your child isn't in private, I'm guessing you are saying alleluia, that other kids won't be stuck with me. Funny thing, I've earned awards and have had 15 kids get into highly selective colleges and thank me personally and in publications.
> 
> My classes were taught as units, which you seem to disagree with. My assessments were daily, but included oral responses, but at least 3 out of 5 days included either end of class response or quick quizzes. Problem for you that I discerned, would be that these often were subjective in the students' responses. So there wouldn't be a grade, but would allow me to discuss the next day. In a real sense their responses caused change in my lesson plans in order to meet my objectives.
> 
> From what I could tell, you wouldn't have found that acceptable. On the other hand, if I'd have an IEP kid in my class, (and over the years I did have some), I'd have sent home my lecture notes, the question, and their response.
> 
> If I'd have the notice from the office of what you wanted, that would have been my response to you and what I'd have provided you with, along with any other written materials your son/daughter had done. I don't agree that you come off as a jerk, but I will agree that you make it very difficult to communicate with, in the sense that you seem to bully.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There really is no other way to deal with intractable bureaucracy: Remember, I expressed my expectations for a MONTH before the meeting. I imagine that had I politely asked, the time-line would have been drawn even longer. Plus, I would not have gained the rep.
> 
> For some odd reason, you keep mentioning the IEP, which has absolutely nothing to do with the complaint? I would make the same complaint, in fact would make the complaint even more emphatically, if the student was my younger son, who may be a Freshman next year at this school. It is my intent not only form a reputation as the most unpleasent parent to deal with, but one with whom teachers probably don't want to fuck around with when I ask for a simple goddamn graded paper to appear each week.
> 
> They have a choice: Produce what I want, or have a formal complaint placed into their file.
> 
> Pretty simple, regardless of whether or not its called "bullying," which could be the name attached to anyone for whom you must comply.
> 
> My guess is you were riff'd to save money. Teaching credentials like the ones you've described are valuable, and a rich society is willing to pay for them. Unhappily, you, and maybe me, and a whole lot of others are going to find themselves more expensive to employ than anyone can afford.
Click to expand...


I'm assuming you are saying that you think I'm a decent teacher, from what you know of me. I'll concur.  Seems the two districts I'm now subbing in agree, as I'm being requested faster than I can block myself out for jobs accepted. Now the question will be, will any hire me for the coming year?

For nearly a month now, sans 4 assignments, all my jobs have been in special ed, which I do NOT have an endorsement in. However, since I began teaching, I've differentiated my lessons and assessments. I've gotten my master degree in admin, with differentiation as a concentration. Don't blame me on the idiocy of such, blame the university. I KNOW it's illogical, but heh, it works for certification. Perhaps we can agree, that staff needs some differentiation? 

I guess I bring up the IEP, as a defense against those like Squeeze that are attacking.

Truthfully, I think you should have seen what compromises you could have made with the teachers, though with an IEP, principal was the best route. 

If it was for a student without an IEP, I would assume the board would shoot your 'demand' down, but agree that the spirit of your request should be seriously considered by each teacher. 

As I said, without an IEP, I'd say, "Mr. S, I don't grade/correct subjective responses, but here is your son's/daughter's response to these remarks on 'such and such date' in 3 minutes before leaving class on this date. Here is the text of my note outlines and that is what they were responding to. Tomorrow I'll send you my notes on adjustments to my lessons. If you have any questions, please call me between 7:20-7:55 am or after 2:15." I'd also tell you what we did in class, besides my notes. 

Could I recite verbatim all the discussion, questions? No. From your posts I'm assuming you'd want my hide for so little info. 

Now maybe I'm reading you wrong, but if I'm right, yeah, the administration should be protecting the teachers from that. At least if they can demonstrate that the kids are learning and have been based on test results and standardized tests. 

An average unit has plenty of assessments for the results you are asking for, though may not be at the frequency you demand:

Civil War-5 weeks:

9 quizzes
40 bell ringers
3 tests
15 assignments

Seems like enough grades to me in 7th grade for 5 weeks.


----------



## Annie

Ravi said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't agree that you come off as a jerk, but I will agree that you make it very difficult to communicate with, in the sense that you seem to bully.
> 
> 
> 
> What's the difference?
Click to expand...

See below. Well now above.


----------



## Annie

squeeze berry said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> so, you have no intelligent reply.?
> 
> figures.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have another Vodka shot: It will get better.
> 
> No AMBIEN in the house?
> 
> You can probably pick some up tonight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not he one with the genetically inferior spawn
Click to expand...


If this person is a educator, they should be fired. My guess, a wannabe. Which is pretty sad, considering the state of education today for the most part.


----------



## Ravi

Annie said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't agree that you come off as a jerk, but I will agree that you make it very difficult to communicate with, in the sense that you seem to bully.
> 
> 
> 
> What's the difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> See below. Well now above.
Click to expand...

 I read your replies and I honestly can't tell the difference.

Some of my relatives are teachers, and uber-conservative. But they would not stomach Samson's bullshit.

It's one thing to want to work with teachers to better your children but quite another to work against them.


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> so is squeezberry a teacher? Yes or no in your opinion, Samson? My guess is yes, in a failing district.
> 
> To respond to your earlier post to me, you know that our methodologies are different. I will say that your jump at bell ringers at end of class shut me down in how to respond to you. While I would assume the differences are between subjects, I believe you think it's a matter of competency.
> 
> You will be glad to know that I'm now just substituting, not teaching. After 11 years teaching in parochial schools, I was rif'd. While your child isn't in private, I'm guessing you are saying alleluia, that other kids won't be stuck with me. Funny thing, I've earned awards and have had 15 kids get into highly selective colleges and thank me personally and in publications.
> 
> My classes were taught as units, which you seem to disagree with. My assessments were daily, but included oral responses, but at least 3 out of 5 days included either end of class response or quick quizzes. Problem for you that I discerned, would be that these often were subjective in the students' responses. So there wouldn't be a grade, but would allow me to discuss the next day. In a real sense their responses caused change in my lesson plans in order to meet my objectives.
> 
> From what I could tell, you wouldn't have found that acceptable. On the other hand, if I'd have an IEP kid in my class, (and over the years I did have some), I'd have sent home my lecture notes, the question, and their response.
> 
> If I'd have the notice from the office of what you wanted, that would have been my response to you and what I'd have provided you with, along with any other written materials your son/daughter had done. I don't agree that you come off as a jerk, but I will agree that you make it very difficult to communicate with, in the sense that you seem to bully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no other way to deal with intractable bureaucracy: Remember, I expressed my expectations for a MONTH before the meeting. I imagine that had I politely asked, the time-line would have been drawn even longer. Plus, I would not have gained the rep.
> 
> For some odd reason, you keep mentioning the IEP, which has absolutely nothing to do with the complaint? I would make the same complaint, in fact would make the complaint even more emphatically, if the student was my younger son, who may be a Freshman next year at this school. It is my intent not only form a reputation as the most unpleasent parent to deal with, but one with whom teachers probably don't want to fuck around with when I ask for a simple goddamn graded paper to appear each week.
> 
> They have a choice: Produce what I want, or have a formal complaint placed into their file.
> 
> Pretty simple, regardless of whether or not its called "bullying," which could be the name attached to anyone for whom you must comply.
> 
> My guess is you were riff'd to save money. Teaching credentials like the ones you've described are valuable, and a rich society is willing to pay for them. Unhappily, you, and maybe me, and a whole lot of others are going to find themselves more expensive to employ than anyone can afford.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm assuming you are saying that you think I'm a decent teacher, from what you know of me. I'll concur.  Seems the two districts I'm now subbing in agree, as I'm being requested faster than I can block myself out for jobs accepted. Now the question will be, will any hire me for the coming year?
> 
> For nearly a month now, sans 4 assignments, all my jobs have been in special ed, which I do NOT have an endorsement in. However, since I began teaching, I've differentiated my lessons and assessments. I've gotten my master degree in admin, with differentiation as a concentration. Don't blame me on the idiocy of such, blame the university. I KNOW it's illogical, but heh, it works for certification. Perhaps we can agree, that staff needs some differentiation?
> 
> I guess I bring up the IEP, as a defense against those like Squeeze that are attacking.
> 
> Truthfully, I think you should have seen what compromises you could have made with the teachers, though with an IEP, principal was the best route.
> 
> If it was for a student without an IEP, I would assume the board would shoot your 'demand' down, but agree that the spirit of your request should be seriously considered by each teacher.
> 
> As I said, without an IEP, I'd say, "Mr. S, I don't grade/correct subjective responses, but here is your son's/daughter's response to these remarks on 'such and such date' in 3 minutes before leaving class on this date. Here is the text of my note outlines and that is what they were responding to. Tomorrow I'll send you my notes on adjustments to my lessons. If you have any questions, please call me between 7:20-7:55 am or after 2:15." I'd also tell you what we did in class, besides my notes.
> 
> Could I recite verbatim all the discussion, questions? No. From your posts I'm assuming you'd want my hide for so little info.
> 
> Now maybe I'm reading you wrong, but if I'm right, yeah, the administration should be protecting the teachers from that. At least if they can demonstrate that the kids are learning and have been based on test results and standardized tests.
> 
> An average unit has plenty of assessments for the results you are asking for, though may not be at the frequency you demand:
> 
> Civil War-5 weeks:
> 
> 9 quizzes
> 40 bell ringers
> 3 tests
> 15 assignments
> 
> Seems like enough grades to me in 7th grade for 5 weeks.
Click to expand...


Again, my primary objective is not to evaluate teachers bases on the quality of their assignments, grading, or whatever: ALL I want to see is some minimum effort. While I have been shocked at the astonishingly low standards this has yielded, I have not complained about it.


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have another Vodka shot: It will get better.
> 
> No AMBIEN in the house?
> 
> You can probably pick some up tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not he one with the genetically inferior spawn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If this person is a educator, they should be fired. My guess, a wannabe. Which is pretty sad, considering the state of education today for the most part.
Click to expand...


No, I give them a 50:50 chance of actually being a teacher.

As an Admin, you get to see all sorts of freaks with certification.


----------



## ConHog

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Try reading:
> "The IEP has nothing to do with my complaint, or the thread."
> 
> You sure you are not a SpEd_ STUDENT_ and not a teacher?
> 
> You seem to be easily confused, even for a n00b. I bet if you spent less time whinging about how difficult life is, and went back to flipping hamburgers at Micky D's, then you'd be a whole lot happier....call up you case worker and bounce the idea off them: I'm sure they'll enthusiastically agree that you were never really qualified to teach.
> 
> 
> 
> so is squeezberry a teacher? Yes or no in your opinion, Samson? My guess is yes, in a failing district.
> 
> To respond to your earlier post to me, you know that our methodologies are different. I will say that your jump at bell ringers at end of class shut me down in how to respond to you. While I would assume the differences are between subjects, I believe you think it's a matter of competency.
> 
> You will be glad to know that I'm now just substituting, not teaching. After 11 years teaching in parochial schools, I was rif'd. While your child isn't in private, I'm guessing you are saying alleluia, that other kids won't be stuck with me. Funny thing, I've earned awards and have had 15 kids get into highly selective colleges and thank me personally and in publications.
> 
> My classes were taught as units, which you seem to disagree with. My assessments were daily, but included oral responses, but at least 3 out of 5 days included either end of class response or quick quizzes. Problem for you that I discerned, would be that these often were subjective in the students' responses. So there wouldn't be a grade, but would allow me to discuss the next day. In a real sense their responses caused change in my lesson plans in order to meet my objectives.
> 
> From what I could tell, you wouldn't have found that acceptable. On the other hand, if I'd have an IEP kid in my class, (and over the years I did have some), I'd have sent home my lecture notes, the question, and their response.
> 
> If I'd have the notice from the office of what you wanted, that would have been my response to you and what I'd have provided you with, along with any other written materials your son/daughter had done. I don't agree that you come off as a jerk, but I will agree that you make it very difficult to communicate with, in the sense that you seem to bully.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There really is no other way to deal with intractable bureaucracy: Remember, I expressed my expectations for a MONTH before the meeting. I imagine that had I politely asked, the time-line would have been drawn even longer. Plus, I would not have gained the rep.
> 
> For some odd reason, you keep mentioning the IEP, which has absolutely nothing to do with the complaint? I would make the same complaint, in fact would make the complaint even more emphatically, if the student was my younger son, who may be a Freshman next year at this school. It is my intent not only form a reputation as the most unpleasent parent to deal with, but one with whom teachers probably don't want to fuck around with when I ask for a simple goddamn graded paper to appear each week.
> 
> They have a choice: Produce what I want, or have a formal complaint placed into their file.
> 
> Pretty simple, regardless of whether or not its called "bullying," which could be the name attached to anyone for whom you must comply.
> 
> My guess is you were riff'd to save money. Teaching credentials like the ones you've described are valuable, and a rich society is willing to pay for them. Unhappily, you, and maybe me, and a whole lot of others are going to find themselves more expensive to employ than anyone can afford.
Click to expand...


Samson, I have to tell you. As a school board member that if you DEMANDED something from one of my teachers, I would tell you to go to hell, and then tell YOU that if you didn't stop harassing my teachers and administrators that I would not only contact the police, but I would expel your child , and yes school boards DO have that authority.

Now IF you were polite and couldn't resolve it with the teacher and or principal I would be happy to meet with you and try to meditate a resolution. But your threats would get you nowhere , and I'm sure that is EXACTLY the situation you find yourself in now. 


And this from one who fundamentally agrees with you that teachers should be providing feedback to parents, even in high school.


----------



## Samson

ConHog said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> so is squeezberry a teacher? Yes or no in your opinion, Samson? My guess is yes, in a failing district.
> 
> To respond to your earlier post to me, you know that our methodologies are different. I will say that your jump at bell ringers at end of class shut me down in how to respond to you. While I would assume the differences are between subjects, I believe you think it's a matter of competency.
> 
> You will be glad to know that I'm now just substituting, not teaching. After 11 years teaching in parochial schools, I was rif'd. While your child isn't in private, I'm guessing you are saying alleluia, that other kids won't be stuck with me. Funny thing, I've earned awards and have had 15 kids get into highly selective colleges and thank me personally and in publications.
> 
> My classes were taught as units, which you seem to disagree with. My assessments were daily, but included oral responses, but at least 3 out of 5 days included either end of class response or quick quizzes. Problem for you that I discerned, would be that these often were subjective in the students' responses. So there wouldn't be a grade, but would allow me to discuss the next day. In a real sense their responses caused change in my lesson plans in order to meet my objectives.
> 
> From what I could tell, you wouldn't have found that acceptable. On the other hand, if I'd have an IEP kid in my class, (and over the years I did have some), I'd have sent home my lecture notes, the question, and their response.
> 
> If I'd have the notice from the office of what you wanted, that would have been my response to you and what I'd have provided you with, along with any other written materials your son/daughter had done. I don't agree that you come off as a jerk, but I will agree that you make it very difficult to communicate with, in the sense that you seem to bully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no other way to deal with intractable bureaucracy: Remember, I expressed my expectations for a MONTH before the meeting. I imagine that had I politely asked, the time-line would have been drawn even longer. Plus, I would not have gained the rep.
> 
> For some odd reason, you keep mentioning the IEP, which has absolutely nothing to do with the complaint? I would make the same complaint, in fact would make the complaint even more emphatically, if the student was my younger son, who may be a Freshman next year at this school. It is my intent not only form a reputation as the most unpleasent parent to deal with, but one with whom teachers probably don't want to fuck around with when I ask for a simple goddamn graded paper to appear each week.
> 
> They have a choice: Produce what I want, or have a formal complaint placed into their file.
> 
> Pretty simple, regardless of whether or not its called "bullying," which could be the name attached to anyone for whom you must comply.
> 
> My guess is you were riff'd to save money. Teaching credentials like the ones you've described are valuable, and a rich society is willing to pay for them. Unhappily, you, and maybe me, and a whole lot of others are going to find themselves more expensive to employ than anyone can afford.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Samson, I have to tell you. As a school board member that if you DEMANDED something from one of my teachers, I would tell you to go to hell, and then tell YOU that if you didn't stop harassing my teachers and administrators that I would not only contact the police, but I would expel your child , and yes school boards DO have that authority.
> 
> Now IF you were polite and couldn't resolve it with the teacher and or principal I would be happy to meet with you and try to meditate a resolution. But your threats would get you nowhere , and I'm sure that is EXACTLY the situation you find yourself in now.
> 
> 
> And this from one who fundamentally agrees with you that teachers should be providing feedback to parents, even in high school.
Click to expand...


And I'd agree: IF my complaint wasn't made through your very own complaint resolution system.

Some seem to be under the impression that I woke up one moring, walked into a principal's office, and began making "demands." However convenient a scenario might be for crybabies to want to believe, this spin won't fly. Because I have very carefully documented each and every graduation of my position with the teachers, for WEEKS and MONTHS, no one can claim they were never given the opportunity to resolve the situation. 

Of course anyone could claim that they resisted because I wasn't "polite" about it. But being polite or not is difficult to document: I am sure that the school board will be more interested in the absence of fundamental teaching principles than the "tone" of a parent's complaint that finds them lacking.

So before you'd expell my kid, you'd better make damn sure you had all your documentation ready to prove cause, or I'd have the state breathing down your neck for the next decade. And, while he's expelled, I'd send him to the most expensive private school I could find, and I'd sue the district for the bill. Next I'd have the Fed's come in to check all the documents that you're supposed to keep on file according to IDEA.

All because your fucking teachers cannot produce a graded paper every week? Or because they feel "hurt" in the method that they were asked to simply do their goddamn job?


----------



## saveliberty

Guy with the best documentation usually wins.  This one goes to Samson.  Next.


----------



## sangha

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no other way to deal with intractable bureaucracy: Remember, I expressed my expectations for a MONTH before the meeting. I imagine that had I politely asked, the time-line would have been drawn even longer. Plus, I would not have gained the rep.
> 
> For some odd reason, you keep mentioning the IEP, which has absolutely nothing to do with the complaint? I would make the same complaint, in fact would make the complaint even more emphatically, if the student was my younger son, who may be a Freshman next year at this school. It is my intent not only form a reputation as the most unpleasent parent to deal with, but one with whom teachers probably don't want to fuck around with when I ask for a simple goddamn graded paper to appear each week.
> 
> They have a choice: Produce what I want, or have a formal complaint placed into their file.
> 
> Pretty simple, regardless of whether or not its called "bullying," which could be the name attached to anyone for whom you must comply.
> 
> My guess is you were riff'd to save money. Teaching credentials like the ones you've described are valuable, and a rich society is willing to pay for them. Unhappily, you, and maybe me, and a whole lot of others are going to find themselves more expensive to employ than anyone can afford.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm assuming you are saying that you think I'm a decent teacher, from what you know of me. I'll concur.  Seems the two districts I'm now subbing in agree, as I'm being requested faster than I can block myself out for jobs accepted. Now the question will be, will any hire me for the coming year?
> 
> For nearly a month now, sans 4 assignments, all my jobs have been in special ed, which I do NOT have an endorsement in. However, since I began teaching, I've differentiated my lessons and assessments. I've gotten my master degree in admin, with differentiation as a concentration. Don't blame me on the idiocy of such, blame the university. I KNOW it's illogical, but heh, it works for certification. Perhaps we can agree, that staff needs some differentiation?
> 
> I guess I bring up the IEP, as a defense against those like Squeeze that are attacking.
> 
> Truthfully, I think you should have seen what compromises you could have made with the teachers, though with an IEP, principal was the best route.
> 
> If it was for a student without an IEP, I would assume the board would shoot your 'demand' down, but agree that the spirit of your request should be seriously considered by each teacher.
> 
> As I said, without an IEP, I'd say, "Mr. S, I don't grade/correct subjective responses, but here is your son's/daughter's response to these remarks on 'such and such date' in 3 minutes before leaving class on this date. Here is the text of my note outlines and that is what they were responding to. Tomorrow I'll send you my notes on adjustments to my lessons. If you have any questions, please call me between 7:20-7:55 am or after 2:15." I'd also tell you what we did in class, besides my notes.
> 
> Could I recite verbatim all the discussion, questions? No. From your posts I'm assuming you'd want my hide for so little info.
> 
> Now maybe I'm reading you wrong, but if I'm right, yeah, the administration should be protecting the teachers from that. At least if they can demonstrate that the kids are learning and have been based on test results and standardized tests.
> 
> An average unit has plenty of assessments for the results you are asking for, though may not be at the frequency you demand:
> 
> Civil War-5 weeks:
> 
> 9 quizzes
> 40 bell ringers
> 3 tests
> 15 assignments
> 
> Seems like enough grades to me in 7th grade for 5 weeks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, my primary objective is not to evaluate teachers bases on the quality of their assignments, grading, or whatever: ALL I want to see is some minimum effort. While I have been shocked at the astonishingly low standards this has yielded, I have not complained about it.
Click to expand...


Gee, and I thought this had something to do with your child; not an evaluation of the teachers efforts


----------



## sangha

ConHog said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> so is squeezberry a teacher? Yes or no in your opinion, Samson? My guess is yes, in a failing district.
> 
> To respond to your earlier post to me, you know that our methodologies are different. I will say that your jump at bell ringers at end of class shut me down in how to respond to you. While I would assume the differences are between subjects, I believe you think it's a matter of competency.
> 
> You will be glad to know that I'm now just substituting, not teaching. After 11 years teaching in parochial schools, I was rif'd. While your child isn't in private, I'm guessing you are saying alleluia, that other kids won't be stuck with me. Funny thing, I've earned awards and have had 15 kids get into highly selective colleges and thank me personally and in publications.
> 
> My classes were taught as units, which you seem to disagree with. My assessments were daily, but included oral responses, but at least 3 out of 5 days included either end of class response or quick quizzes. Problem for you that I discerned, would be that these often were subjective in the students' responses. So there wouldn't be a grade, but would allow me to discuss the next day. In a real sense their responses caused change in my lesson plans in order to meet my objectives.
> 
> From what I could tell, you wouldn't have found that acceptable. On the other hand, if I'd have an IEP kid in my class, (and over the years I did have some), I'd have sent home my lecture notes, the question, and their response.
> 
> If I'd have the notice from the office of what you wanted, that would have been my response to you and what I'd have provided you with, along with any other written materials your son/daughter had done. I don't agree that you come off as a jerk, but I will agree that you make it very difficult to communicate with, in the sense that you seem to bully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no other way to deal with intractable bureaucracy: Remember, I expressed my expectations for a MONTH before the meeting. I imagine that had I politely asked, the time-line would have been drawn even longer. Plus, I would not have gained the rep.
> 
> For some odd reason, you keep mentioning the IEP, which has absolutely nothing to do with the complaint? I would make the same complaint, in fact would make the complaint even more emphatically, if the student was my younger son, who may be a Freshman next year at this school. It is my intent not only form a reputation as the most unpleasent parent to deal with, but one with whom teachers probably don't want to fuck around with when I ask for a simple goddamn graded paper to appear each week.
> 
> They have a choice: Produce what I want, or have a formal complaint placed into their file.
> 
> Pretty simple, regardless of whether or not its called "bullying," which could be the name attached to anyone for whom you must comply.
> 
> My guess is you were riff'd to save money. Teaching credentials like the ones you've described are valuable, and a rich society is willing to pay for them. Unhappily, you, and maybe me, and a whole lot of others are going to find themselves more expensive to employ than anyone can afford.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Samson, I have to tell you. As a school board member that if you DEMANDED something from one of my teachers, I would tell you to go to hell, and then tell YOU that if you didn't stop harassing my teachers and administrators that I would not only contact the police, but I would expel your child , and yes school boards DO have that authority.
> 
> Now IF you were polite and couldn't resolve it with the teacher and or principal I would be happy to meet with you and try to meditate a resolution. But your threats would get you nowhere , and I'm sure that is EXACTLY the situation you find yourself in now.
> 
> 
> And this from one who fundamentally agrees with you that teachers should be providing feedback to parents, even in high school.
Click to expand...


It seems like they are telling Samson to go to hell, they're just not saying it out loud.  Instead, they're just dicking around with him. I doubt they're scared of having a complaint filed against them for such foolishness.

I have to agree with you. Parents have the right to be kept informed of their childs' progress. They don't get to demand the form in which those updates will be communicated.


----------



## sangha

Samson said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no other way to deal with intractable bureaucracy: Remember, I expressed my expectations for a MONTH before the meeting. I imagine that had I politely asked, the time-line would have been drawn even longer. Plus, I would not have gained the rep.
> 
> For some odd reason, you keep mentioning the IEP, which has absolutely nothing to do with the complaint? I would make the same complaint, in fact would make the complaint even more emphatically, if the student was my younger son, who may be a Freshman next year at this school. It is my intent not only form a reputation as the most unpleasent parent to deal with, but one with whom teachers probably don't want to fuck around with when I ask for a simple goddamn graded paper to appear each week.
> 
> They have a choice: Produce what I want, or have a formal complaint placed into their file.
> 
> Pretty simple, regardless of whether or not its called "bullying," which could be the name attached to anyone for whom you must comply.
> 
> My guess is you were riff'd to save money. Teaching credentials like the ones you've described are valuable, and a rich society is willing to pay for them. Unhappily, you, and maybe me, and a whole lot of others are going to find themselves more expensive to employ than anyone can afford.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson, I have to tell you. As a school board member that if you DEMANDED something from one of my teachers, I would tell you to go to hell, and then tell YOU that if you didn't stop harassing my teachers and administrators that I would not only contact the police, but I would expel your child , and yes school boards DO have that authority.
> 
> Now IF you were polite and couldn't resolve it with the teacher and or principal I would be happy to meet with you and try to meditate a resolution. But your threats would get you nowhere , and I'm sure that is EXACTLY the situation you find yourself in now.
> 
> 
> And this from one who fundamentally agrees with you that teachers should be providing feedback to parents, even in high school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And I'd agree: IF my complaint wasn't made through your very own complaint resolution system.
> 
> Some seem to be under the impression that I woke up one moring, walked into a principal's office, and began making "demands." However convenient a scenario might be for crybabies to want to believe, this spin won't fly. Because I have very carefully documented each and every graduation of my position with the teachers, for WEEKS and MONTHS, no one can claim they were never given the opportunity to resolve the situation.
> 
> Of course anyone could claim that they resisted because I wasn't "polite" about it. But being polite or not is difficult to document: I am sure that the school board will be more interested in the absence of fundamental teaching principles than the "tone" of a parent's complaint that finds them lacking.
> 
> So before you'd expell my kid, you'd better make damn sure you had all your documentation ready to prove cause, or I'd have the state breathing down your neck for the next decade. And, while he's expelled, I'd send him to the most expensive private school I could find, and I'd sue the district for the bill. Next I'd have the Fed's come in to check all the documents that you're supposed to keep on file according to IDEA.
> 
> All because your fucking teachers cannot produce a graded paper every week? Or because they feel "hurt" in the method that they were asked to simply do their goddamn job?
Click to expand...


It doesn't matter if your demand sufaced all of a sudden or gradually; No matter what the circumstances are, no matter how badly anyone has performed, you have no right to demand that teachers report to you in the way you demand.

It's beginning to sound like you havent been honest and forthcoming about this matter. At first, you presented this as an attempt by you to keep informed of your childs' progress. Now, you're ranting about "fundamental teaching principles" and the possibility of expulsion.

How in the world did the possibility of expulsion enter the picture?


----------



## ConHog

Samson said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no other way to deal with intractable bureaucracy: Remember, I expressed my expectations for a MONTH before the meeting. I imagine that had I politely asked, the time-line would have been drawn even longer. Plus, I would not have gained the rep.
> 
> For some odd reason, you keep mentioning the IEP, which has absolutely nothing to do with the complaint? I would make the same complaint, in fact would make the complaint even more emphatically, if the student was my younger son, who may be a Freshman next year at this school. It is my intent not only form a reputation as the most unpleasent parent to deal with, but one with whom teachers probably don't want to fuck around with when I ask for a simple goddamn graded paper to appear each week.
> 
> They have a choice: Produce what I want, or have a formal complaint placed into their file.
> 
> Pretty simple, regardless of whether or not its called "bullying," which could be the name attached to anyone for whom you must comply.
> 
> My guess is you were riff'd to save money. Teaching credentials like the ones you've described are valuable, and a rich society is willing to pay for them. Unhappily, you, and maybe me, and a whole lot of others are going to find themselves more expensive to employ than anyone can afford.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson, I have to tell you. As a school board member that if you DEMANDED something from one of my teachers, I would tell you to go to hell, and then tell YOU that if you didn't stop harassing my teachers and administrators that I would not only contact the police, but I would expel your child , and yes school boards DO have that authority.
> 
> Now IF you were polite and couldn't resolve it with the teacher and or principal I would be happy to meet with you and try to meditate a resolution. But your threats would get you nowhere , and I'm sure that is EXACTLY the situation you find yourself in now.
> 
> 
> And this from one who fundamentally agrees with you that teachers should be providing feedback to parents, even in high school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And I'd agree: IF my complaint wasn't made through your very own complaint resolution system.
> 
> Some seem to be under the impression that I woke up one moring, walked into a principal's office, and began making "demands." However convenient a scenario might be for crybabies to want to believe, this spin won't fly. Because I have very carefully documented each and every graduation of my position with the teachers, for WEEKS and MONTHS, no one can claim they were never given the opportunity to resolve the situation.
> 
> Of course anyone could claim that they resisted because I wasn't "polite" about it. But being polite or not is difficult to document: I am sure that the school board will be more interested in the absence of fundamental teaching principles than the "tone" of a parent's complaint that finds them lacking.
> 
> So before you'd expell my kid, you'd better make damn sure you had all your documentation ready to prove cause, or I'd have the state breathing down your neck for the next decade. And, while he's expelled, I'd send him to the most expensive private school I could find, and I'd sue the district for the bill. Next I'd have the Fed's come in to check all the documents that you're supposed to keep on file according to IDEA.
> 
> All because your fucking teachers cannot produce a graded paper every week? Or because they feel "hurt" in the method that they were asked to simply do their goddamn job?
Click to expand...


Samson, I deal with parents like you all the time. I can guarantee right now, that you are NEVER anywhere around when the school needs volunteers, don't bother denying it I know from experience that I am 100% correct. You're the asshole that only shows up when you have a complaint.

You also better check the state and federal laws, bullying and or threatening a school employee in the course of their job is illegal. 

As for expelling your child, not only do I have the legal ability to do so if I feel like his/her continued attendance at the school will be detrimental to the school as a whole, BUT you don't get to then take your child to a private school and bill me for it, no you get to a different public school district and enroll your child or pay for private school yourself. And yes, my school board has been sued for the very same situation and won, we didn't have to pay for private school.

You indicated earlier that the school used a system similar to our EdLine, now if the teachers aren't utilizing that system you DO have a right to file a complaint, if the school board can't satisfy you, then there is a state board of education which you can file a complaint with. If you can't get satisfaction there, you have the option of suing the school in court to get them to comply. Good luck with that. 

Also, out of curiosity, does your child hear you refer to his/her instructors as "those fucking teachers?" Hell of an example you are setting there.


----------



## ConHog

sangha said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Samson, I have to tell you. As a school board member that if you DEMANDED something from one of my teachers, I would tell you to go to hell, and then tell YOU that if you didn't stop harassing my teachers and administrators that I would not only contact the police, but I would expel your child , and yes school boards DO have that authority.
> 
> Now IF you were polite and couldn't resolve it with the teacher and or principal I would be happy to meet with you and try to meditate a resolution. But your threats would get you nowhere , and I'm sure that is EXACTLY the situation you find yourself in now.
> 
> 
> And this from one who fundamentally agrees with you that teachers should be providing feedback to parents, even in high school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I'd agree: IF my complaint wasn't made through your very own complaint resolution system.
> 
> Some seem to be under the impression that I woke up one moring, walked into a principal's office, and began making "demands." However convenient a scenario might be for crybabies to want to believe, this spin won't fly. Because I have very carefully documented each and every graduation of my position with the teachers, for WEEKS and MONTHS, no one can claim they were never given the opportunity to resolve the situation.
> 
> Of course anyone could claim that they resisted because I wasn't "polite" about it. But being polite or not is difficult to document: I am sure that the school board will be more interested in the absence of fundamental teaching principles than the "tone" of a parent's complaint that finds them lacking.
> 
> So before you'd expell my kid, you'd better make damn sure you had all your documentation ready to prove cause, or I'd have the state breathing down your neck for the next decade. And, while he's expelled, I'd send him to the most expensive private school I could find, and I'd sue the district for the bill. Next I'd have the Fed's come in to check all the documents that you're supposed to keep on file according to IDEA.
> 
> All because your fucking teachers cannot produce a graded paper every week? Or because they feel "hurt" in the method that they were asked to simply do their goddamn job?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter if your demand sufaced all of a sudden or gradually; No matter what the circumstances are, no matter how badly anyone has performed, you have no right to demand that teachers report to you in the way you demand.
> 
> It's beginning to sound like you havent been honest and forthcoming about this matter. At first, you presented this as an attempt by you to keep informed of your childs' progress. Now, you're ranting about "fundamental teaching principles" and the possibility of expulsion.
> 
> How in the world did the possibility of expulsion enter the picture?
Click to expand...


I brought it into the discussion to let Samson know that school boards don't take threatening parents lightly and can and will expel students to rid themselves of parents. I have done it. We can't foster an environment where parents feel justified in threatening school employees when they don't get their way.


----------



## sangha

ConHog said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Samson, I have to tell you. As a school board member that if you DEMANDED something from one of my teachers, I would tell you to go to hell, and then tell YOU that if you didn't stop harassing my teachers and administrators that I would not only contact the police, but I would expel your child , and yes school boards DO have that authority.
> 
> Now IF you were polite and couldn't resolve it with the teacher and or principal I would be happy to meet with you and try to meditate a resolution. But your threats would get you nowhere , and I'm sure that is EXACTLY the situation you find yourself in now.
> 
> 
> And this from one who fundamentally agrees with you that teachers should be providing feedback to parents, even in high school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I'd agree: IF my complaint wasn't made through your very own complaint resolution system.
> 
> Some seem to be under the impression that I woke up one moring, walked into a principal's office, and began making "demands." However convenient a scenario might be for crybabies to want to believe, this spin won't fly. Because I have very carefully documented each and every graduation of my position with the teachers, for WEEKS and MONTHS, no one can claim they were never given the opportunity to resolve the situation.
> 
> Of course anyone could claim that they resisted because I wasn't "polite" about it. But being polite or not is difficult to document: I am sure that the school board will be more interested in the absence of fundamental teaching principles than the "tone" of a parent's complaint that finds them lacking.
> 
> So before you'd expell my kid, you'd better make damn sure you had all your documentation ready to prove cause, or I'd have the state breathing down your neck for the next decade. And, while he's expelled, I'd send him to the most expensive private school I could find, and I'd sue the district for the bill. Next I'd have the Fed's come in to check all the documents that you're supposed to keep on file according to IDEA.
> 
> All because your fucking teachers cannot produce a graded paper every week? Or because they feel "hurt" in the method that they were asked to simply do their goddamn job?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Samson, I deal with parents like you all the time. I can guarantee right now, that you are NEVER anywhere around when the school needs volunteers, don't bother denying it I know from experience that I am 100% correct. You're the asshole that only shows up when you have a complaint.
> 
> You also better check the state and federal laws, bullying and or threatening a school employee in the course of their job is illegal.
> 
> As for expelling your child, not only do I have the legal ability to do so if I feel like his/her continued attendance at the school will be detrimental to the school as a whole, BUT you don't get to then take your child to a private school and bill me for it, no you get to a different public school district and enroll your child or pay for private school yourself. And yes, my school board has been sued for the very same situation and won, we didn't have to pay for private school.
> 
> You indicated earlier that the school used a system similar to our EdLine, now if the teachers aren't utilizing that system you DO have a right to file a complaint, if the school board can't satisfy you, then there is a state board of education which you can file a complaint with. If you can't get satisfaction there, you have the option of suing the school in court to get them to comply. Good luck with that.
> 
> Also, out of curiosity, does your child hear you refer to his/her instructors as "those fucking teachers?" Hell of an example you are setting there.
Click to expand...


I have to re-quote this because it's so simple (and adult) that I'm sure Samson will completely dismiss it.
*



			You indicated earlier that the school used a system similar to our EdLine, now if the teachers aren't utilizing that system you DO have a right to file a complaint, if the school board can't satisfy you, then there is a state board of education which you can file a complaint with. If you can't get satisfaction there, you have the option of suing the school in court to get them to comply. Good luck with that.
		
Click to expand...

*


----------



## ConHog

By the way Samson, you don't have to sic the feds on anyone to make sure my school has all the documents they are supposed to have, you simply have to file a an FOIA request. Anyone can do it, you are of course limited in what you can see, but that would hold true if you sued me in court, or sicced the feds on me.

Again, you sound like an asshole parent that every school dreads dealing with.


----------



## saveliberty

Sad state of affairs when school related parties can't handle a parent asking the school to teach and be accountable for that education delivery.  Conhog, you should resign immediately, if you actually think the way you have mentioned here.


----------



## sangha

saveliberty said:


> Sad state of affairs when school related parties can't handle a parent asking the school to teach and be accountable for that education delivery.  Conhog, you should resign immediately, if you actually think the way you have mentioned here.



Samson isn't asking for anything. Samson is demanding that every teacher assign a gradable paper every week and deliver the results to him. He isn't asking the school to teach.


----------



## Ravi

sangha said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sad state of affairs when school related parties can't handle a parent asking the school to teach and be accountable for that education delivery.  Conhog, you should resign immediately, if you actually think the way you have mentioned here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson isn't asking for anything. Samson is demanding that every teacher assign a gradable paper every week and deliver the results to him. He isn't asking the school to teach.
Click to expand...

Bingo.


----------



## kwc57

sangha said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sad state of affairs when school related parties can't handle a parent asking the school to teach and be accountable for that education delivery.  Conhog, you should resign immediately, if you actually think the way you have mentioned here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson isn't asking for anything. Samson is demanding that every teacher assign a gradable paper every week and deliver the results to him. He isn't asking the school to teach.
Click to expand...


Bullshit!  He's asking to see the measured work of what his child is being taught.


----------



## Samson

ConHog said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Samson, I have to tell you. As a school board member that if you DEMANDED something from one of my teachers, I would tell you to go to hell, and then tell YOU that if you didn't stop harassing my teachers and administrators that I would not only contact the police, but I would expel your child , and yes school boards DO have that authority.
> 
> Now IF you were polite and couldn't resolve it with the teacher and or principal I would be happy to meet with you and try to meditate a resolution. But your threats would get you nowhere , and I'm sure that is EXACTLY the situation you find yourself in now.
> 
> 
> And this from one who fundamentally agrees with you that teachers should be providing feedback to parents, even in high school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I'd agree: IF my complaint wasn't made through your very own complaint resolution system.
> 
> Some seem to be under the impression that I woke up one moring, walked into a principal's office, and began making "demands." However convenient a scenario might be for crybabies to want to believe, this spin won't fly. Because I have very carefully documented each and every graduation of my position with the teachers, for WEEKS and MONTHS, no one can claim they were never given the opportunity to resolve the situation.
> 
> Of course anyone could claim that they resisted because I wasn't "polite" about it. But being polite or not is difficult to document: I am sure that the school board will be more interested in the absence of fundamental teaching principles than the "tone" of a parent's complaint that finds them lacking.
> 
> So before you'd expell my kid, you'd better make damn sure you had all your documentation ready to prove cause, or I'd have the state breathing down your neck for the next decade. And, while he's expelled, I'd send him to the most expensive private school I could find, and I'd sue the district for the bill. Next I'd have the Fed's come in to check all the documents that you're supposed to keep on file according to IDEA.
> 
> All because your fucking teachers cannot produce a graded paper every week? Or because they feel "hurt" in the method that they were asked to simply do their goddamn job?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Samson, I deal with parents like you all the time. I can guarantee right now, that you are NEVER anywhere around when the school needs volunteers, don't bother denying it I know from experience that I am 100% correct. You're the asshole that only shows up when you have a complaint.
> 
> You also better check the state and federal laws, bullying and or threatening a school employee in the course of their job is illegal.
> 
> As for expelling your child, not only do I have the legal ability to do so if I feel like his/her continued attendance at the school will be detrimental to the school as a whole, BUT you don't get to then take your child to a private school and bill me for it, no you get to a different public school district and enroll your child or pay for private school yourself. And yes, my school board has been sued for the very same situation and won, we didn't have to pay for private school.
> 
> You indicated earlier that the school used a system similar to our EdLine, now if the teachers aren't utilizing that system you DO have a right to file a complaint, if the school board can't satisfy you, then there is a state board of education which you can file a complaint with. If you can't get satisfaction there, you have the option of suing the school in court to get them to comply. Good luck with that.
> 
> Also, out of curiosity, does your child hear you refer to his/her instructors as "those fucking teachers?" Hell of an example you are setting there.
Click to expand...


Out of curiousity, do you share everything you write on discussion boards with everyone you know?

I deal with bureaucratic morons like yourself all the time: I guarantee "right now," you have never taught, or been an administrator in a public school.

I also doubt you are on any school board, or at the very least, a competent one. Risking a lawsuit by believing that teachers have been "bullied," without any documentation as evidence, whould put you at the top of the class dunce list.


----------



## kwc57

ConHog said:


> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I'd agree: IF my complaint wasn't made through your very own complaint resolution system.
> 
> Some seem to be under the impression that I woke up one moring, walked into a principal's office, and began making "demands." However convenient a scenario might be for crybabies to want to believe, this spin won't fly. Because I have very carefully documented each and every graduation of my position with the teachers, for WEEKS and MONTHS, no one can claim they were never given the opportunity to resolve the situation.
> 
> Of course anyone could claim that they resisted because I wasn't "polite" about it. But being polite or not is difficult to document: I am sure that the school board will be more interested in the absence of fundamental teaching principles than the "tone" of a parent's complaint that finds them lacking.
> 
> So before you'd expell my kid, you'd better make damn sure you had all your documentation ready to prove cause, or I'd have the state breathing down your neck for the next decade. And, while he's expelled, I'd send him to the most expensive private school I could find, and I'd sue the district for the bill. Next I'd have the Fed's come in to check all the documents that you're supposed to keep on file according to IDEA.
> 
> All because your fucking teachers cannot produce a graded paper every week? Or because they feel "hurt" in the method that they were asked to simply do their goddamn job?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter if your demand sufaced all of a sudden or gradually; No matter what the circumstances are, no matter how badly anyone has performed, you have no right to demand that teachers report to you in the way you demand.
> 
> It's beginning to sound like you havent been honest and forthcoming about this matter. At first, you presented this as an attempt by you to keep informed of your childs' progress. Now, you're ranting about "fundamental teaching principles" and the possibility of expulsion.
> 
> How in the world did the possibility of expulsion enter the picture?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I brought it into the discussion to let Samson know that school boards don't take threatening parents lightly and can and will expel students to rid themselves of parents. I have done it. We can't foster an environment where parents feel justified in threatening school employees when they don't get their way.
Click to expand...


And we can't foster an environment where school systems think it is OK to teach our children whatever they want and turn a deaf ear to the taxpayer's supporting the school.  That is how whole school boards end up getting replaced.  If ou are going to have compulsory education, you damn well better be responsive to the parents of the children forced by law to attend.


----------



## Samson

kwc57 said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter if your demand sufaced all of a sudden or gradually; No matter what the circumstances are, no matter how badly anyone has performed, you have no right to demand that teachers report to you in the way you demand.
> 
> It's beginning to sound like you havent been honest and forthcoming about this matter. At first, you presented this as an attempt by you to keep informed of your childs' progress. Now, you're ranting about "fundamental teaching principles" and the possibility of expulsion.
> 
> How in the world did the possibility of expulsion enter the picture?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I brought it into the discussion to let Samson know that school boards don't take threatening parents lightly and can and will expel students to rid themselves of parents. I have done it. We can't foster an environment where parents feel justified in threatening school employees when they don't get their way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And we can't foster an environment where school systems think it is OK to teach our children whatever they want and turn a deaf ear to the taxpayer's supporting the school.  That is how whole school boards end up getting replaced.  If ou are going to have compulsory education, you damn well better be responsive to the parents of the children forced by law to attend.
Click to expand...


You'll notice that _NOWHERE_ in this entire thread do I "threaten" anyone.

But, if there's no other defence for stupidity, I guess you must fabricate _SOMETHING_.


----------



## sangha

kwc57 said:


> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sad state of affairs when school related parties can't handle a parent asking the school to teach and be accountable for that education delivery.  Conhog, you should resign immediately, if you actually think the way you have mentioned here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson isn't asking for anything. Samson is demanding that every teacher assign a gradable paper every week and deliver the results to him. He isn't asking the school to teach.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit!  He's asking to see the measured work of what his child is being taught.
Click to expand...


No. The childs final grades are a "measured work of what his child is being taught". Samson is DEMANDING more than just a final grade

Samson has been clear that he will accept no less than one graded assignment from every teacher every week. Why reword it into some"glittering generality"  when the specifics are so clear?

http://changingminds.org/techniques/propaganda/glittering_generalities.htm


----------



## ConHog

kwc57 said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter if your demand sufaced all of a sudden or gradually; No matter what the circumstances are, no matter how badly anyone has performed, you have no right to demand that teachers report to you in the way you demand.
> 
> It's beginning to sound like you havent been honest and forthcoming about this matter. At first, you presented this as an attempt by you to keep informed of your childs' progress. Now, you're ranting about "fundamental teaching principles" and the possibility of expulsion.
> 
> How in the world did the possibility of expulsion enter the picture?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I brought it into the discussion to let Samson know that school boards don't take threatening parents lightly and can and will expel students to rid themselves of parents. I have done it. We can't foster an environment where parents feel justified in threatening school employees when they don't get their way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And we can't foster an environment where school systems think it is OK to teach our children whatever they want and turn a deaf ear to the taxpayer's supporting the school.  That is how whole school boards end up getting replaced.  If ou are going to have compulsory education, you damn well better be responsive to the parents of the children forced by law to attend.
Click to expand...


Of course, and who said they shouldn't be? BUT there is a HUGE difference in turning a deaf ear and giving in to every demand. I have said that every reasonable request should be met. Samson DEMANDING that a paper be graded and returned home every week beginning in week one is an unreasonable demand. Especially given that he has also said that his school uses an online resource to allow parents to check their child's progress. 

It's like this, let's say your child has 3 assignments in Math for the week and the teacher posts the grades each and every time on EdLine, but doesn't return the papers for the child to bring home. Has the teacher failed to keep the parent abreast of their child's progress? No, because the parent can log onto EdLine and view the grades given, the actual papers don't need to be returned. At our school there are no papers in any case . 

Samson is asking for above and beyond, when he could simply log onto EdLine, or whatever they call it where he lives, and examine his child's grades at ANY time.


----------



## Samson

ConHog said:


> At our school there are no papers in any case ..



Why?


----------



## ConHog

Samson said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> I brought it into the discussion to let Samson know that school boards don't take threatening parents lightly and can and will expel students to rid themselves of parents. I have done it. We can't foster an environment where parents feel justified in threatening school employees when they don't get their way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And we can't foster an environment where school systems think it is OK to teach our children whatever they want and turn a deaf ear to the taxpayer's supporting the school.  That is how whole school boards end up getting replaced.  If ou are going to have compulsory education, you damn well better be responsive to the parents of the children forced by law to attend.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You'll notice that _NOWHERE_ in this entire thread do I "threaten" anyone.
> 
> But, if there's no other defence for stupidity, I guess you must fabricate _SOMETHING_.
Click to expand...


Oh, but you HAVE threatened, you threaten legal action if nothing else. Not to mention that you are taking away from time needed to teach other children when you are occupying a teacher with your unreasonable demands.

You still haven't answered. How much time do you spend volunteering at your school? Perhaps you could take upon yourself to spend an hour a week at the school helping hand out papers to be returned to concerned parents, if it's so important to you.

I'll say it again, log onto your online grade sheet and check his damned grades once a week, that is ALL your entitled to.

The alternative of course is that you can run for school board and then you get to help set policy for your school, but I have a feeling that you aren't actually interested in DOING anything.


----------



## ConHog

Samson said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> At our school there are no papers in any case ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?
Click to expand...


Because I led a push to turn our high school completely digital. Beginning this year, we have no books, no paper tests, nothing. Each child received a laptop at the beginning of the year loaded with all their textbooks and all homework and or tests is done on the laptop and emailed to teachers in the case of homework or done online and monitored by the teacher in the case of tests. So far it's working out really well, but again, there is nothing to return to parents. Although technically that is not true because they could access their child's file on our server and check their coursework anytime they wish.

I see most schools going to this in the next 5 years.


----------



## Samson

ConHog said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> At our school there are no papers in any case ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because I led a push to turn our high school completely digital. Beginning this year, we have no books, no paper tests, nothing. Each child received a laptop at the beginning of the year loaded with all their textbooks and all homework and or tests is done on the laptop and emailed to teachers in the case of homework or done online and monitored by the teacher in the case of tests. So far it's working out really well, but again, _there is nothing to return to parents_. Although *technically that is not true because they could access their child's file on our server and check their coursework anytime they wish.*
> 
> I see most schools going to this in the next 5 years.
Click to expand...




> Although technically that is not true because they could access their child's file on our server and check their coursework anytime they wish.



Not sure what this means: if there's nothing to return to parents, then it wouldn't be accessable online. And vice versa.

However, the case is: Only the gradebook is accessable.

How do you know that,  "So far it's working out really well?"


----------



## Samson

ConHog said:


> Oh, but you HAVE threatened, you threaten legal action if nothing else. Not to mention that you are taking away from time needed to teach other children when you are occupying a teacher with your unreasonable demands.



I haven't threatened anyone with legal action, idiot: I said that I WOULD IF there was a need IF the school expelled my kid without very careful documentation.

I've not been told by anyone, but you, that I'm "taking away from time needed to teach other children when you are occupying a teacher with your unreasonable demands." You know why? Because anyone with any brains knows how absurd the accusation would be.

But, like I said I suppose if you haven't a reasonable excuse for being incompetent, then you begin to make shit up: It would take me about 5 minutes to walk out of a School Board Meeting with your head under my arm.


----------



## kwc57

sangha said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Samson isn't asking for anything. Samson is demanding that every teacher assign a gradable paper every week and deliver the results to him. He isn't asking the school to teach.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit!  He's asking to see the measured work of what his child is being taught.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No. The childs final grades are a "measured work of what his child is being taught". Samson is DEMANDING more than just a final grade
> 
> Samson has been clear that he will accept no less than one graded assignment from every teacher every week. Why reword it into some"glittering generality"  when the specifics are so clear?
> 
> Glittering generalities
Click to expand...


You sir or madam or idiot or whatever you are are a moron and obviously childless.  The child's final grade is made up of all the graded assignments made thru the year.  You are aware that many schools send home progress reports about every nine weeks and report cards at the end of semesters aren't you?  That is all fine and wonderful, but imagine your surprise if we followed your method and your child brings home an F at year end and has to repeat the year again.  Wanting to know how your child is doing along the way to the final grade is natural and normal and has been the standard way of doing things.


----------



## kwc57

ConHog said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> At our school there are no papers in any case ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because I led a push to turn our high school completely digital. Beginning this year, we have no books, no paper tests, nothing. Each child received a laptop at the beginning of the year loaded with all their textbooks and all homework and or tests is done on the laptop and emailed to teachers in the case of homework or done online and monitored by the teacher in the case of tests. So far it's working out really well, but again, there is nothing to return to parents. Although technically that is not true because they could access their child's file on our server and check their coursework anytime they wish.
> 
> I see most schools going to this in the next 5 years.
Click to expand...


You miss the point conhog.  Signing on online and looking at the grade only tells you part of the story.  You see a grade, but not the work.  My son took pre-AP chemistry.  Made an A.  He never touched a test tube, touched a chemical or had to learn the periodic chart.  Nothing hands on, it was all "book learning".  They read about chemical reactions, they didn't see any.  I believe you are a vet.  Imagine what it would be like if you read a book and watched a video on weapons and never went to the firing range and touched a weapon.  Imagine that you are qualified as a sharpshooter based on your multiple choice answers to the video you watched.  That is what is going on in our schools today.  Looking online and seeing an A makes it easy to satisfy yourself that you have an egghead i nthe class.  Being able to hold his paper in your hand, read the questions and see his responses is something else entirely.  Parents have a right to know what and how their children are being taught.


----------



## Samson

kwc57 said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I led a push to turn our high school completely digital. Beginning this year, we have no books, no paper tests, nothing. Each child received a laptop at the beginning of the year loaded with all their textbooks and all homework and or tests is done on the laptop and emailed to teachers in the case of homework or done online and monitored by the teacher in the case of tests. So far it's working out really well, but again, there is nothing to return to parents. Although technically that is not true because they could access their child's file on our server and check their coursework anytime they wish.
> 
> I see most schools going to this in the next 5 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You miss the point conhog.  Signing on online and looking at the grade only tells you part of the story.  You see a grade, but not the work.  My son took pre-AP chemistry.  Made an A.  He never touched a test tube, touched a chemical or had to learn the periodic chart.  Nothing hands on, it was all "book learning".  They read about chemical reactions, they didn't see any.  I believe you are a vet.  Imagine what it would be like if you read a book and watched a video on weapons and never went to the firing range and touched a weapon.  Imagine that you are qualified as a sharpshooter based on your multiple choice answers to the video you watched.  That is what is going on in our schools today.  Looking online and seeing an A makes it easy to satisfy yourself that you have an egghead i nthe class.  Being able to hold his paper in your hand, read the questions and see his responses is something else entirely.  Parents have a right to know what and how their children are being taught.
Click to expand...


What amazes me is, that teachers, always under scrutiny, wouldn't WANT to produce as much evidence as possible that they're actually DOING THEIR JOB!!!


----------



## Annie

Well I've read through enough of 'no papers, totally digital,' Samson, did you ever get the superintendent's or board's response? I'm hoping it's reasonable?


----------



## ConHog

kwc57 said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I led a push to turn our high school completely digital. Beginning this year, we have no books, no paper tests, nothing. Each child received a laptop at the beginning of the year loaded with all their textbooks and all homework and or tests is done on the laptop and emailed to teachers in the case of homework or done online and monitored by the teacher in the case of tests. So far it's working out really well, but again, there is nothing to return to parents. Although technically that is not true because they could access their child's file on our server and check their coursework anytime they wish.
> 
> I see most schools going to this in the next 5 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You miss the point conhog.  Signing on online and looking at the grade only tells you part of the story.  You see a grade, but not the work.  My son took pre-AP chemistry.  Made an A.  He never touched a test tube, touched a chemical or had to learn the periodic chart.  Nothing hands on, it was all "book learning".  They read about chemical reactions, they didn't see any.  I believe you are a vet.  Imagine what it would be like if you read a book and watched a video on weapons and never went to the firing range and touched a weapon.  Imagine that you are qualified as a sharpshooter based on your multiple choice answers to the video you watched.  That is what is going on in our schools today.  Looking online and seeing an A makes it easy to satisfy yourself that you have an egghead i nthe class.  Being able to hold his paper in your hand, read the questions and see his responses is something else entirely.  Parents have a right to know what and how their children are being taught.
Click to expand...


Perhaps you missed my description of our system. You as a parent could at anytime of day or night log onto our secure network and view the entire curriculum of any of your child's classes. That means all of the homework and all of the tests, not just a grade but the actual digital "papers." Further you as a parent could even log on and watch your child do their homework or take a test if you wish. On a separate part of the network we have every single class in our high school being watched by internet capable cameras, all of our parents are given access to THAT system as well. They can log in and watch the class if they wish. Come January they will be able to log in and watch the cameras on their child's bus if they wish. 

I personally don't even have a problem if a parent wants to come sit in and observe a class, and any teacher that balked would be over ridden and not have a say in the matter, but that parent certainly better show due respect to the teacher. 

As far as determining if your child is learning the material, that is what exams are for. 

You are absolutely right, you DO have a right to know what your child is being taught and how; what you do NOT have a right to do is disrupt and distract teaching professionals from doing their jobs. There is a procedure to follow if you have a complaint. Go to the teacher, if they can't resolve to your satisfaction, go to to the principal, then to the superintendent, then to the local school board, then to the state school board, and if after all that you are still not satisfied. I would recommend suing. I would also offer you good luck.

The truth is no principal is going to just refuse a respectful request from a parent. I can tell Samson quickly went to "defcon one" though and no one is going to cooperate with an asshole. 

And finally and frankly, how dumb of a tenth grader do you have if he isn't capable of articulating to you how well he is doing in each course without a graded paper returned home every week? I don't think ANY tenth grader is that dumb.

Also, note that although Samson alluded to an electronic grade book being available, he never stated that he utilizes it, and he has thus far refused to answer my reasonable question as to whether he is ever at his kids' school except to complain........


----------



## Samson

ConHog said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because I led a push to turn our high school completely digital. Beginning this year, we have no books, no paper tests, nothing. Each child received a laptop at the beginning of the year loaded with all their textbooks and all homework and or tests is done on the laptop and emailed to teachers in the case of homework or done online and monitored by the teacher in the case of tests. So far it's working out really well, but again, there is nothing to return to parents. Although technically that is not true because they could access their child's file on our server and check their coursework anytime they wish.
> 
> I see most schools going to this in the next 5 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You miss the point conhog.  Signing on online and looking at the grade only tells you part of the story.  You see a grade, but not the work.  My son took pre-AP chemistry.  Made an A.  He never touched a test tube, touched a chemical or had to learn the periodic chart.  Nothing hands on, it was all "book learning".  They read about chemical reactions, they didn't see any.  I believe you are a vet.  Imagine what it would be like if you read a book and watched a video on weapons and never went to the firing range and touched a weapon.  Imagine that you are qualified as a sharpshooter based on your multiple choice answers to the video you watched.  That is what is going on in our schools today.  Looking online and seeing an A makes it easy to satisfy yourself that you have an egghead i nthe class.  Being able to hold his paper in your hand, read the questions and see his responses is something else entirely.  Parents have a right to know what and how their children are being taught.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Perhaps you missed my description of our system. You as a parent could at anytime of day or night log onto our secure network and view the entire curriculum of any of your child's classes. That means all of the homework and all of the tests, not just a grade but the actual digital "papers." Further you as a parent could even log on and watch your child do their homework or take a test if you wish. On a separate part of the network we have every single class in our high school being watched by internet capable cameras, all of our parents are given access to THAT system as well. They can log in and watch the class if they wish. Come January they will be able to log in and watch the cameras on their child's bus if they wish.
> 
> I personally don't even have a problem if a parent wants to come sit in and observe a class, and any teacher that balked would be over ridden and not have a say in the matter, but that parent certainly better show due respect to the teacher.
> 
> As far as determining if your child is learning the material, that is what exams are for.
> 
> You are absolutely right, you DO have a right to know what your child is being taught and how; what you do NOT have a right to do is disrupt and distract teaching professionals from doing their jobs. There is a procedure to follow if you have a complaint. Go to the teacher, if they can't resolve to your satisfaction, go to to the principal, then to the superintendent, then to the local school board, then to the state school board, and if after all that you are still not satisfied. I would recommend suing. I would also offer you good luck.
> 
> The truth is no principal is going to just refuse a respectful request from a parent. I can tell Samson quickly went to "defcon one" though and no one is going to cooperate with an asshole.
> 
> And finally and frankly, how dumb of a tenth grader do you have if he isn't capable of articulating to you how well he is doing in each course without a graded paper returned home every week? I don't think ANY tenth grader is that dumb.
> 
> Also, note that although Samson alluded to an electronic grade book being available, he never stated that he utilizes it, and he has thus far refused to answer my reasonable question as to whether he is ever at his kids' school except to complain........
Click to expand...


I guess my 10th grader is relatively dumb, huh conhog?

Make you feel like you know wtf your taking about now?

I'll be happy to answer your nonsequitur questions, as soon as you've answered mine: You ave never taught have you? Otherwise, you'd know that MOST 10th graders are relatively dumb. You're a pretty pathetic example of school leadership if there's any truth to the claim that you actually have any authority over any public school.

At any rate, I'm through with your trolling the thread: First you make ridiculous accusations about my "threatening" anyone. Then you fail to know that I've made several comments regarding the online gradebook's inadequacy: Obviously, I've seen it. 

Just as obviously, you don't seem to have even the minimum qualification to evaluate this situation.


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> Well I've read through enough of 'no papers, totally digital,' Samson, did you ever get the superintendent's or board's response? I'm hoping it's reasonable?



I'll go pick-up the Principal's report to the District Monday. I'm wondering why they didn't mail it? I suspect they're waiting to see how I respond to it before they send it to the District.


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I've read through enough of 'no papers, totally digital,' Samson, did you ever get the superintendent's or board's response? I'm hoping it's reasonable?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll go pick-up the Principal's report to the District Monday. I'm wondering why they didn't mail it? I suspect they're waiting to see how I respond to it before they send it to the District.
Click to expand...


Geez, the principal is just getting around to this? For krisakes, I'd be pissed too! By now you should be hearing from his boss, not waiting around.


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I've read through enough of 'no papers, totally digital,' Samson, did you ever get the superintendent's or board's response? I'm hoping it's reasonable?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll go pick-up the Principal's report to the District Monday. I'm wondering why they didn't mail it? I suspect they're waiting to see how I respond to it before they send it to the District.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Geez, the principal is just getting around to this? For krisakes, I'd be pissed too! By now you should be hearing from his boss, not waiting around.
Click to expand...


No, he's OK: He had until 11/9/2010 to do it, and the AP called me to tell me it was ready Tuesday. 

I need to be up at the school Monday anyway, so it makes it convenient for me to pickup my copy of the report then..

Regardless, between now and the end of the year there are so few weeks left, the point is a little mute.


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll go pick-up the Principal's report to the District Monday. I'm wondering why they didn't mail it? I suspect they're waiting to see how I respond to it before they send it to the District.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Geez, the principal is just getting around to this? For krisakes, I'd be pissed too! By now you should be hearing from his boss, not waiting around.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, he's OK: He had until 11/9/2010 to do it, and the AP called me to tell me it was ready Tuesday.
> 
> I need to be up at the school Monday anyway, so it makes it convenient for me to pickup my copy of the report then..
> 
> Regardless, between now and the end of the year there are so few weeks left, the point is a little mute.
Click to expand...


Well in my opinion, you've been at this a long time. He couldn't or wouldn't go beyond the first step, so he needs to kick it up. You shouldn't be in limbo waiting. Honestly, though we don't see eye-to-eye on all aspects of this, you've been more patient than I would have been, if I thought as you do.


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Geez, the principal is just getting around to this? For krisakes, I'd be pissed too! By now you should be hearing from his boss, not waiting around.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, he's OK: He had until 11/9/2010 to do it, and the AP called me to tell me it was ready Tuesday.
> 
> I need to be up at the school Monday anyway, so it makes it convenient for me to pickup my copy of the report then..
> 
> Regardless, between now and the end of the year there are so few weeks left, the point is a little mute.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well in my opinion, you've been at this a long time. He couldn't or wouldn't go beyond the first step, so he needs to kick it up. You shouldn't be in limbo waiting. Honestly, though we don't see eye-to-eye on all aspects of this, you've been more patient than I would have been, if I thought as you do.
Click to expand...


Well, quite to the contrary of this being some knee-jerk reaction of a demanding parent, it has been a very carefully documented process that has strictly followed all school district requirements: Meaning it cannot be rushed.

Interestingly, all teachers, except for two, will be different next semester.


----------



## ConHog

You sound like you're just being a pain in the ass. Have I taught? Well does teaching new soldiers how to survive in a war environment count?

By the way, I am OBVIOUSLY doing something right as I've been reelected to the school board twice after my original term.


----------



## Samson

ConHog said:


> You sound like you're just being a pain in the ass. Have I taught? Well does teaching new soldiers how to survive in a war environment count?
> 
> By the way, I am OBVIOUSLY doing something right as I've been reelected to the school board twice after my original term.



No, you've never taught in public school.

The school district must be desperate if you're truely the best they could find.


----------



## ConHog

Samson said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> You sound like you're just being a pain in the ass. Have I taught? Well does teaching new soldiers how to survive in a war environment count?
> 
> By the way, I am OBVIOUSLY doing something right as I've been reelected to the school board twice after my original term.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you've never taught in public school.
> 
> The school district must be desperate if you're truely the best they could find.
Click to expand...


Does a man who can't seem to manage to get his son to make good grades without a magical paper arriving from each teacher once a week really need to be hurling insults? My own son just graduated last May with a 4.0. From the time he was a sophomore on I never knew what was going on in his classes other than when report cards came around he had As, there was no need to.

I'm thinking perhaps you and Junior need to do a little self evaluation.


----------



## kwc57

ConHog said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> You sound like you're just being a pain in the ass. Have I taught? Well does teaching new soldiers how to survive in a war environment count?
> 
> By the way, I am OBVIOUSLY doing something right as I've been reelected to the school board twice after my original term.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you've never taught in public school.
> 
> The school district must be desperate if you're truely the best they could find.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does a man who can't seem to manage to get his son to make good grades without a magical paper arriving from each teacher once a week really need to be hurling insults? My own son just graduated last May with a 4.0. From the time he was a sophomore on I never knew what was going on in his classes other than when report cards came around he had As, there was no need to.
> 
> I'm thinking perhaps you and Junior need to do a little self evaluation.
Click to expand...


And you wonder why people dislike you around here.  Here's a clue, you're a major ASS!  It's obvious that you came ino the thread late and started offering opinions without reading from the beginning.  Don't be that guy.


----------



## sangha

kwc57 said:


> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit!  He's asking to see the measured work of what his child is being taught.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No. The childs final grades are a "measured work of what his child is being taught". Samson is DEMANDING more than just a final grade
> 
> Samson has been clear that he will accept no less than one graded assignment from every teacher every week. Why reword it into some"glittering generality"  when the specifics are so clear?
> 
> Glittering generalities
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You sir or madam or idiot or whatever you are are a moron and obviously childless.  The child's final grade is made up of all the graded assignments made thru the year.  You are aware that many schools send home progress reports about every nine weeks and report cards at the end of semesters aren't you?  That is all fine and wonderful, but imagine your surprise if we followed your method and your child brings home an F at year end and has to repeat the year again.  Wanting to know how your child is doing along the way to the final grade is natural and normal and has been the standard way of doing things.
Click to expand...


Samson has been clear that he will accept no less than one graded assignment from every teacher every week. Why make up stuff like " graded assignments made thru the year"?? 

Samson has been clear that he will accept no less than one graded assignment from every teacher every week, even if there is no graded assignment for the week


----------



## sangha

kwc57 said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I led a push to turn our high school completely digital. Beginning this year, we have no books, no paper tests, nothing. Each child received a laptop at the beginning of the year loaded with all their textbooks and all homework and or tests is done on the laptop and emailed to teachers in the case of homework or done online and monitored by the teacher in the case of tests. So far it's working out really well, but again, there is nothing to return to parents. Although technically that is not true because they could access their child's file on our server and check their coursework anytime they wish.
> 
> I see most schools going to this in the next 5 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You miss the point conhog.  Signing on online and looking at the grade only tells you part of the story.  You see a grade, but not the work.  My son took pre-AP chemistry.  Made an A.  He never touched a test tube, touched a chemical or had to learn the periodic chart.  Nothing hands on, it was all "book learning".  They read about chemical reactions, they didn't see any.  I believe you are a vet.  Imagine what it would be like if you read a book and watched a video on weapons and never went to the firing range and touched a weapon.  Imagine that you are qualified as a sharpshooter based on your multiple choice answers to the video you watched.  That is what is going on in our schools today.  Looking online and seeing an A makes it easy to satisfy yourself that you have an egghead i nthe class.  Being able to hold his paper in your hand, read the questions and see his responses is something else entirely.  Parents have a right to know what and how their children are being taught.
Click to expand...


If that's why someone is concerned about, then why ask for a copy of the test? If all they're getting is "book learning" then seeing the results of a test or a written assignment won't reveal that they never did anything hands on.  

If one si concerned about what and how their child is being taught, then they should ask to see the curriculum and the lesson plans. But that would take some time to review all that. I get the impression Samson isn't interested in doing much work, unless it involves annoying someone.


----------



## sangha

Samson said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> You sound like you're just being a pain in the ass. Have I taught? Well does teaching new soldiers how to survive in a war environment count?
> 
> By the way, I am OBVIOUSLY doing something right as I've been reelected to the school board twice after my original term.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you've never taught in public school.
> 
> The school district must be desperate if you're truely the best they could find.
Click to expand...


According to you, the teachers don't know how to teach, and the non-teachers don't know how to teach

No one knows better than Samson


----------



## sangha

ConHog said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> You sound like you're just being a pain in the ass. Have I taught? Well does teaching new soldiers how to survive in a war environment count?
> 
> By the way, I am OBVIOUSLY doing something right as I've been reelected to the school board twice after my original term.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you've never taught in public school.
> 
> The school district must be desperate if you're truely the best they could find.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does a man who can't seem to manage to get his son to make good grades without a magical paper arriving from each teacher once a week really need to be hurling insults? My own son just graduated last May with a 4.0. From the time he was a sophomore on I never knew what was going on in his classes other than when report cards came around he had As, there was no need to.
> 
> I'm thinking perhaps you and Junior need to do a little self evaluation.
Click to expand...


He can't even communicate with his own child , and he thinks he has the credibility to tell teachers how to communicate and teach to a class full of children


----------



## squeeze berry

sangha said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm assuming you are saying that you think I'm a decent teacher, from what you know of me. I'll concur.  Seems the two districts I'm now subbing in agree, as I'm being requested faster than I can block myself out for jobs accepted. Now the question will be, will any hire me for the coming year?
> 
> For nearly a month now, sans 4 assignments, all my jobs have been in special ed, which I do NOT have an endorsement in. However, since I began teaching, I've differentiated my lessons and assessments. I've gotten my master degree in admin, with differentiation as a concentration. Don't blame me on the idiocy of such, blame the university. I KNOW it's illogical, but heh, it works for certification. Perhaps we can agree, that staff needs some differentiation?
> 
> I guess I bring up the IEP, as a defense against those like Squeeze that are attacking.
> 
> Truthfully, I think you should have seen what compromises you could have made with the teachers, though with an IEP, principal was the best route.
> 
> If it was for a student without an IEP, I would assume the board would shoot your 'demand' down, but agree that the spirit of your request should be seriously considered by each teacher.
> 
> As I said, without an IEP, I'd say, "Mr. S, I don't grade/correct subjective responses, but here is your son's/daughter's response to these remarks on 'such and such date' in 3 minutes before leaving class on this date. Here is the text of my note outlines and that is what they were responding to. Tomorrow I'll send you my notes on adjustments to my lessons. If you have any questions, please call me between 7:20-7:55 am or after 2:15." I'd also tell you what we did in class, besides my notes.
> 
> Could I recite verbatim all the discussion, questions? No. From your posts I'm assuming you'd want my hide for so little info.
> 
> Now maybe I'm reading you wrong, but if I'm right, yeah, the administration should be protecting the teachers from that. At least if they can demonstrate that the kids are learning and have been based on test results and standardized tests.
> 
> An average unit has plenty of assessments for the results you are asking for, though may not be at the frequency you demand:
> 
> Civil War-5 weeks:
> 
> 9 quizzes
> 40 bell ringers
> 3 tests
> 15 assignments
> 
> Seems like enough grades to me in 7th grade for 5 weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, my primary objective is not to evaluate teachers bases on the quality of their assignments, grading, or whatever: ALL I want to see is some minimum effort. While I have been shocked at the astonishingly low standards this has yielded, I have not complained about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gee, and I thought this had something to do with your child; not an evaluation of the teachers efforts
Click to expand...


that ^ is really what it's all about


----------



## squeeze berry

Samson said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not he one with the genetically inferior spawn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If this person is a educator, they should be fired. My guess, a wannabe. Which is pretty sad, considering the state of education today for the most part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I give them a 50:50 chance of actually being a teacher.
> 
> As an Admin, you get to see all sorts of freaks with certification.
Click to expand...


100% chance you are an arrogant ass


----------



## sangha

squeeze berry said:


> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, my primary objective is not to evaluate teachers bases on the quality of their assignments, grading, or whatever: ALL I want to see is some minimum effort. While I have been shocked at the astonishingly low standards this has yielded, I have not complained about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, and I thought this had something to do with your child; not an evaluation of the teachers efforts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> that ^ is really what it's all about
Click to expand...


Nope

What it's really about is Samsons need to exert the only power he has; the power to annoy


----------



## Samson

All teachers complied with _*my policy*_ this week.


----------



## ConHog

I just don't get it. If you look on , I believe it's called Infinite Campus at Samson's school, and see that the child is making good grades why do you need further evidence? 

Here's an idea Samson, if you want to evaluate where your child is on a national level go to Barnes and Noble and spend $50 on a SAT study guide, it comes with practice tests, have him take those practice tests and if the results fall below what you find acceptable and you feel the problem isn't your child's aptitude, THEN you might have cause to question what is being taught at his school. 

The main thing here is that you are refusing to see one simple thing. There are standards that each class has to meet, and they are being met, guarantee that. It's not like no one is checking if you aren't down at the school making demands. 

One graded paper per week returned home is NOT one of those standards.


----------



## ConHog

Samson said:


> All teachers complied with _*my policy*_ this week.



Congratulations, you have taught your child that being a bully will get him what he wants.

Although I suspect he will pay the price for your arrogance, don't think his work might be graded a little more closely than that of some of the other kids do you?


----------



## sangha

ConHog said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> All teachers complied with _*my policy*_ this week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Congratulations, you have taught your child that being a bully will get him what he wants.
> 
> Although I suspect he will pay the price for your arrogance, don't think his work might be graded a little more closely than that of some of the other kids do you?
Click to expand...


He's already paying a price. He and his child have a communication problem and he just taught his child that it's the teachers fault.

And I suspect that Samson will claim that he is now receiving everything he asked for in order to avoid admitting failure. He has no idea that he is failing his child, or how.


----------



## Ravi

sangha said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> All teachers complied with _*my policy*_ this week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Congratulations, you have taught your child that being a bully will get him what he wants.
> 
> Although I suspect he will pay the price for your arrogance, don't think his work might be graded a little more closely than that of some of the other kids do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's already paying a price. He and his child have a communication problem and* he just taught his child that it's the teachers fault.
> *
> And I suspect that Samson will claim that he is now receiving everything he asked for in order to avoid admitting failure. He has no idea that he is failing his child, or how.
Click to expand...

Yep, I said this awhile ago in the thread and Samson the coward put me on ignore for saying it.


----------



## Samson

ConHog said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> All teachers complied with _*my policy*_ this week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Congratulations, you have taught your child that being a bully will get him what he wants.
> 
> Although I suspect he will pay the price for your arrogance, don't think his work might be graded a little more closely than that of some of the other kids do you?
Click to expand...



I taught him to advocate for himself in the face of unmoving bureaucracy, and how to win against unyielding bullshit.

King George III may be your hero, but he's not mine. You go ahead and teach your kids to be pussies, and how to bend over every time they're told to reach for the soap.

I'm sure you'll be a great example.


----------



## Samson

This is a Outline of the principal's Response to My Complaint:

1. He noted that weekly emails had been received for 4 weeks into the school year when it "continued to come to [his] attention" that the emails had been sent.

2. He distributed research that I had cited, supporting that frequent, timely, and detailed grading was fundamental to good teaching practice

3. He decided it "was the best idea" to host a meeting.

4. As far as He can tell, since the meeting the teachers, "have been working hard to meet the requests of Mr. Samson."

IOW: The expected Coverage of the Ass has been done. The teachers are complying with my request.


----------



## ConHog

Samson said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> All teachers complied with _*my policy*_ this week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Congratulations, you have taught your child that being a bully will get him what he wants.
> 
> Although I suspect he will pay the price for your arrogance, don't think his work might be graded a little more closely than that of some of the other kids do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I taught him to advocate for himself in the face of unmoving bureaucracy, and how to win against unyielding bullshit.
> 
> King George III may be your hero, but he's not mine. You go ahead and teach your kids to be pussies, and how to bend over every time their told to reach for the soap.
> 
> I'm sure you'll be a great example.
Click to expand...


I AM a great example. Evidenced by the fact that my child graduated HS with a 4.0 and received a full scholarship to the University of Arkansas where he is currently making oh all As.

And not once did I have to badger a teacher for his graded papers.


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> This is a Outline of the principal's Response to My Complaint:
> 
> 1. He noted that weekly emails had been received for 4 weeks into the school year when it "continued to come to [his] attention" that the emails had been sent.
> 
> 2. He distributed research that I had cited, supporting that frequent, timely, and detailed grading was fundamental to good teaching practice
> 
> 3. He decided it "was the best idea" to host a meeting.
> 
> 4. As far as He can tell, since the meeting the teachers, "have been working hard to meet the requests of Mr. Samson."
> 
> IOW: The expected Coverage of the Ass has been done. The teachers are complying with my request.



Yet weren't you still having problems with at least one teacher? Does his outline make you feel that it's about as good as it's going to get?


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a Outline of the principal's Response to My Complaint:
> 
> 1. He noted that weekly emails had been received for 4 weeks into the school year when it "continued to come to [his] attention" that the emails had been sent.
> 
> 2. He distributed research that I had cited, supporting that frequent, timely, and detailed grading was fundamental to good teaching practice
> 
> 3. He decided it "was the best idea" to host a meeting.
> 
> 4. As far as He can tell, since the meeting the teachers, "have been working hard to meet the requests of Mr. Samson."
> 
> IOW: The expected Coverage of the Ass has been done. The teachers are complying with my request.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet weren't you still having problems with at least one teacher? Does his outline make you feel that it's about as good as it's going to get?
Click to expand...



Yes, I was having "trouble" with the Biology teacher after the meeting, which was why I had to put together the complaint. The principal's account isn't quite accurate, but it does cover his ass, and the teachers have, for the past two weeks at least, complied.

I'm a little interested as to whom the document I received was addressed. Oddly it begins with:

"What: Written summary of conference with Samson

From: Principal

Date: November 9, 2010

Where: Conference Room, High School"

I wonder why "To: ???" was omitted?? I can only guess that would give me a clue as to who to contact next up in the layers of the local School District Bureaucracy in case I was not satisfied with this response.


----------



## Samson

ConHog said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Congratulations, you have taught your child that being a bully will get him what he wants.
> 
> Although I suspect he will pay the price for your arrogance, don't think his work might be graded a little more closely than that of some of the other kids do you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I taught him to advocate for himself in the face of unmoving bureaucracy, and how to win against unyielding bullshit.
> 
> King George III may be your hero, but he's not mine. You go ahead and teach your kids to be pussies, and how to bend over every time their told to reach for the soap.
> 
> I'm sure you'll be a great example.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I AM a great example. Evidenced by the fact that my child graduated HS with a 4.0 and received a full scholarship to the University of Arkansas where he is currently making oh all As.
> 
> And not once did I have to badger a teacher for his graded papers.
Click to expand...


The only evidence I have is your postings.

They only reveal your below average intellectual grasp of most situations which probably accounts for your need to be told what to do most of the time.


----------



## bodecea

Samson said:


> All teachers complied with _*my policy*_ this week.



Yeah...they probably have some cookie cutter stuff for you that they gin up in the Teacher's Lounge while swapping stories about you and your kid.   Congrats.   Your kid's work will now be pencil-whipped to make sure he gets passed on to the next grade and they don't have to deal with you anymore.


----------



## bodecea

Samson said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> All teachers complied with _*my policy*_ this week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Congratulations, you have taught your child that being a bully will get him what he wants.
> 
> Although I suspect he will pay the price for your arrogance, don't think his work might be graded a little more closely than that of some of the other kids do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I taught him to advocate for himself in the face of unmoving bureaucracy, and how to win against unyielding bullshit.
> 
> King George III may be your hero, but he's not mine. You go ahead and teach your kids to be pussies, and how to bend over every time they're told to reach for the soap.
> 
> I'm sure you'll be a great example.
Click to expand...

From what I've read...doesn't seem to me that he was doing the advocating for himself...it was YOU stepping in and demanding things in his name.   You don't think he isn't learning to throw his weight around from that?


----------



## Samson

bodecea said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Congratulations, you have taught your child that being a bully will get him what he wants.
> 
> Although I suspect he will pay the price for your arrogance, don't think his work might be graded a little more closely than that of some of the other kids do you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I taught him to advocate for himself in the face of unmoving bureaucracy, and how to win against unyielding bullshit.
> 
> King George III may be your hero, but he's not mine. You go ahead and teach your kids to be pussies, and how to bend over every time they're told to reach for the soap.
> 
> I'm sure you'll be a great example.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From what I've read...doesn't seem to me that he was doing the advocating for himself...it was YOU stepping in and demanding things in his name.   You don't think he isn't learning to throw his weight around from that?
Click to expand...


No.

If indeed you've read this account, then it should be clear that the "demands," requests, and discussions, *covered a period of about 10 weeks*. Actually, with the 60 day response from the district due in January, the matter could be said to be still open.

If I had demanded anything, it would that the situation be resolved after ONE week; however, the district has a defined method of filing complaints, and I followed it to the letter. The purpose for having a method of filing complaints is, in fact, to avoid having anyone with a whim about what should be taught, and how it should be taught, from capreciously fiddling with the system whenever the mood strikes them.

You're correct that he really hasn't advocated for himself: That's why I said _he's LEARNING_ to do it, the right way: Document, Document, Document, Document, Meet and present your position, base your position on confirmed research, Document, Document, Document, Document, Use the District's complaint form (attaching all documentation), give the Principal 10 days to investigate/make changes, give the District 60 days to respond, go before the School Board to complain is there is continued dissatisfaction.

Not really the least complicated method of resolution, and hardly one that reflects a "bullying" character.


----------



## bodecea

Samson said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I taught him to advocate for himself in the face of unmoving bureaucracy, and how to win against unyielding bullshit.
> 
> King George III may be your hero, but he's not mine. You go ahead and teach your kids to be pussies, and how to bend over every time they're told to reach for the soap.
> 
> I'm sure you'll be a great example.
> 
> 
> 
> From what I've read...doesn't seem to me that he was doing the advocating for himself...it was YOU stepping in and demanding things in his name.   You don't think he isn't learning to throw his weight around from that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> If indeed you've read this account, then it should be clear that the "demands," requests, and discussions, *covered a period of about 10 weeks*. Actually, with the 60 day response from the district due in January, the matter could be said to be still open.
> 
> If I had demanded anything, it would that the situation be resolved after ONE week; however, the district has a defined method of filing complaints, and I followed it to the letter. The purpose for having a method of filing complaints is, in fact, to avoid having anyone with a whim about what should be taught, and how it should be taught, from capreciously fiddling with the system whenever the mood strikes them.
> 
> You're correct that he really hasn't advocated for himself: That's why I said _he's LEARNING_ to do it, the right way: Document, Document, Document, Document, Meet and present your position, base your position on confirmed research, Document, Document, Document, Document, Use the District's complaint form (attaching all documentation), give the Principal 10 days to investigate/make changes, give the District 60 days to respond, go before the School Board to complain is there is continued dissatisfaction.
> 
> Not really the least complicated method of resolution, and hardly one that reflects a "bullying" character.
Click to expand...



Sure is....the kind of bully who threatens lawsuits.   The kind of bully who is a litigation fool.  The kind of bully that plays the system to the nth degree just so they can be the center of attention.


----------



## kwc57

bodecea said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> From what I've read...doesn't seem to me that he was doing the advocating for himself...it was YOU stepping in and demanding things in his name.   You don't think he isn't learning to throw his weight around from that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> If indeed you've read this account, then it should be clear that the "demands," requests, and discussions, *covered a period of about 10 weeks*. Actually, with the 60 day response from the district due in January, the matter could be said to be still open.
> 
> If I had demanded anything, it would that the situation be resolved after ONE week; however, the district has a defined method of filing complaints, and I followed it to the letter. The purpose for having a method of filing complaints is, in fact, to avoid having anyone with a whim about what should be taught, and how it should be taught, from capreciously fiddling with the system whenever the mood strikes them.
> 
> You're correct that he really hasn't advocated for himself: That's why I said _he's LEARNING_ to do it, the right way: Document, Document, Document, Document, Meet and present your position, base your position on confirmed research, Document, Document, Document, Document, Use the District's complaint form (attaching all documentation), give the Principal 10 days to investigate/make changes, give the District 60 days to respond, go before the School Board to complain is there is continued dissatisfaction.
> 
> Not really the least complicated method of resolution, and hardly one that reflects a "bullying" character.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sure is....the kind of bully who threatens lawsuits.   The kind of bully who is a litigation fool.  The kind of bully that plays the system to the nth degree just so they can be the center of attention.
Click to expand...


Come on bodecea, he had a legitimate concern and question.  We pay taxes to support the schools that we are compelled by law to send our children to unless we opt to homeschool or send them to private schools.  Stonewalling a parent who wants to know what their child is being taught and getting to see actual work papers is unacceptable.  The biggest issue with the state of our education today is lack of parental involvement.  This idea of packing junior onto the bus and he's yours for the next 6 to 7 hours, five days a week for nine months out of the year.......give me back an educated child is what is killing education.  When my son was in grade school, papers were sent home everyday.  We reviewed them, found any errors and gave them back to him to correct.  We didn't give him the answers, we simply pointed out the errors.  He had to do the work.  I began to worry if his A's were really A's since we were showing him his mistakes.  Every single teacher told me NO, as long as you are not giving him the answers and make him work and figure it out.  They all said they wish every parent took enough interest in their child's education to do this.  But DWTS is on TV and they can't be bothered.  When they move to junior high and senior high, the teachers have a tendancy to hold all work in a notebook that you can only see at teacher/parent conference or at the end of the year.  There is a disconnect there.  Now you are expected to log on to a website and view a grade and nothing but a grade.  As a parent concerned with my child's quality of education, I have an issue with that.  My tax dollars pay for the schools, the teachers and the admins.  There needs to be some accountability.....especially when a parent asks to see their childs work.  How hard is that to do?  Why would a teacher or school balk at that?


----------



## Samson

bodecea said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> From what I've read...doesn't seem to me that he was doing the advocating for himself...it was YOU stepping in and demanding things in his name.   You don't think he isn't learning to throw his weight around from that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> If indeed you've read this account, then it should be clear that the "demands," requests, and discussions, *covered a period of about 10 weeks*. Actually, with the 60 day response from the district due in January, the matter could be said to be still open.
> 
> If I had demanded anything, it would that the situation be resolved after ONE week; however, the district has a defined method of filing complaints, and I followed it to the letter. The purpose for having a method of filing complaints is, in fact, to avoid having anyone with a whim about what should be taught, and how it should be taught, from capreciously fiddling with the system whenever the mood strikes them.
> 
> You're correct that he really hasn't advocated for himself: That's why I said _he's LEARNING_ to do it, the right way: Document, Document, Document, Document, Meet and present your position, base your position on confirmed research, Document, Document, Document, Document, Use the District's complaint form (attaching all documentation), give the Principal 10 days to investigate/make changes, give the District 60 days to respond, go before the School Board to complain is there is continued dissatisfaction.
> 
> Not really the least complicated method of resolution, and hardly one that reflects a "bullying" character.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sure is....the kind of bully who threatens lawsuits.   The kind of bully who is a litigation fool.  The kind of bully that plays the system to the nth degree just so they can be the center of attention.
Click to expand...



I suppose I should have contacted the ACLU and claimed to be a disinfrachized lesbian.


----------



## bodecea

Samson said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> If indeed you've read this account, then it should be clear that the "demands," requests, and discussions, *covered a period of about 10 weeks*. Actually, with the 60 day response from the district due in January, the matter could be said to be still open.
> 
> If I had demanded anything, it would that the situation be resolved after ONE week; however, the district has a defined method of filing complaints, and I followed it to the letter. The purpose for having a method of filing complaints is, in fact, to avoid having anyone with a whim about what should be taught, and how it should be taught, from capreciously fiddling with the system whenever the mood strikes them.
> 
> You're correct that he really hasn't advocated for himself: That's why I said _he's LEARNING_ to do it, the right way: Document, Document, Document, Document, Meet and present your position, base your position on confirmed research, Document, Document, Document, Document, Use the District's complaint form (attaching all documentation), give the Principal 10 days to investigate/make changes, give the District 60 days to respond, go before the School Board to complain is there is continued dissatisfaction.
> 
> Not really the least complicated method of resolution, and hardly one that reflects a "bullying" character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure is....the kind of bully who threatens lawsuits.   The kind of bully who is a litigation fool.  The kind of bully that plays the system to the nth degree just so they can be the center of attention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose I should have contacted the ACLU and claimed to be a disinfrachized lesbian.
Click to expand...


If that could have worked for you, I'm sure you would consider it.


----------



## saveliberty

Is bodecea suggesting we should just be good socialist and accept whatever level of education the government is willing to supply with our tax dollars?  I'm sure that someone at Samson's house is fully aware that a parent has expectations of them doing their best after such efforts have been expended.  Why would it take bullying to get a school district to fulfill their mission?


----------



## Samson

bodecea said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure is....the kind of bully who threatens lawsuits.   The kind of bully who is a litigation fool.  The kind of bully that plays the system to the nth degree just so they can be the center of attention.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose I should have contacted the ACLU and claimed to be a disinfrachized lesbian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If that could have worked for you, I'm sure you would consider it.
Click to expand...


If it will make you feel better, I'll demand to chaparone the prom while wearing a little black dress.


----------



## ConHog

Samson said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose I should have contacted the ACLU and claimed to be a disinfrachized lesbian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that could have worked for you, I'm sure you would consider it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If it will make you feel better, I'll demand to chaparone the prom while wearing a little black dress.
Click to expand...


Once again, I doubt you have ever volunteered to do ANYTHING at you child's school.


----------



## Samson

ConHog said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> If that could have worked for you, I'm sure you would consider it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it will make you feel better, I'll demand to chaparone the prom while wearing a little black dress.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once again, I doubt you have ever volunteered to do ANYTHING at you child's school.
Click to expand...


That would make a great thread instead of a non-sequitur posting....

....but I'm sure you cannot comprehend why.


----------



## Kat

Samson said:


> That would make a great thread instead of a non-sequitur posting....
> 
> ....but I'm sure you cannot comprehend why.



Now Now Samson. You know you are a member of the liars club!!


----------



## syrenn

saveliberty said:


> Is bodecea suggesting we should just be good socialist and accept whatever level of education the government is willing to supply with our tax dollars?  I'm sure that someone at Samson's house is fully aware that a parent has expectations of them doing their best after such efforts have been expended. * Why would it take bullying to get a school district to fulfill their mission?*




 I don't think Samson was bullying them but asking them to do their jobs. For lack of a better word, for those who's excuse is always, over worked, under paid. AND union workers, sometimes "bullying" is the only method that lits the fire under them .


----------



## Samson

Kat said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> That would make a great thread instead of a non-sequitur posting....
> 
> ....but I'm sure you cannot comprehend why.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now Now Samson. You know you are a member of the liars club!!
Click to expand...


Well, I know I'm in the No-Patience-For-Morons-That-Derail-Threads-With-Red-Herrings Club.

The NPFMTDTWRHC


----------



## Kat

Samson said:


> Kat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> That would make a great thread instead of a non-sequitur posting....
> 
> ....but I'm sure you cannot comprehend why.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now Now Samson. You know you are a member of the liars club!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I know I'm in the No-Patience-For-Morons-That-Derail-Threads-With-Red-Herrings Club.
> 
> The NPFMTDTWRHC
Click to expand...


----------



## syrenn

Kat said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> That would make a great thread instead of a non-sequitur posting....
> 
> ....but I'm sure you cannot comprehend why.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now Now Samson. You know you are a member of the liars club!!
Click to expand...



Amazing isn't it kat? Now Samson


----------



## bodecea

saveliberty said:


> Is bodecea suggesting we should just be good socialist and accept whatever level of education the government is willing to supply with our tax dollars?  I'm sure that someone at Samson's house is fully aware that a parent has expectations of them doing their best after such efforts have been expended.  Why would it take bullying to get a school district to fulfill their mission?



Absolutely not...and I honestly cannot see how you get that from my posts.   Explain, please.


----------



## bodecea

Samson said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose I should have contacted the ACLU and claimed to be a disinfrachized lesbian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that could have worked for you, I'm sure you would consider it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If it will make you feel better, I'll demand to chaparone the prom while wearing a little black dress.
Click to expand...


I am a sucker for little black dresses...


----------



## Samson

bodecea said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> If that could have worked for you, I'm sure you would consider it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it will make you feel better, I'll demand to chaparone the prom while wearing a little black dress.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am a sucker for little black dresses...
Click to expand...



I'll even have my back waxed, m'k?


----------



## Ravi

bodecea said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is bodecea suggesting we should just be good socialist and accept whatever level of education the government is willing to supply with our tax dollars?  I'm sure that someone at Samson's house is fully aware that a parent has expectations of them doing their best after such efforts have been expended.  Why would it take bullying to get a school district to fulfill their mission?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely not...and I honestly cannot see how you get that from my posts.   Explain, please.
Click to expand...

I got that you feel it would be wrong if not impossible to meet the demands of each and every parent. 

For instance, what if another father insecure about his tenth grader's ability demands a weekly phone conference? And another demands a weekly personal conference. Another demands a teacher correct a weekly summary of the student's version of what was taught that week. Another demands each teacher gives a student a weekly hour coaching session.

Teachers are already saddled with enough bullshit from the nervous school boards and the freaking NCLB bullshit that they are almost unable to teach anything at all.

It is up to the community as a whole to set a standard and not the individual parent. Schools have never been set up to cater to the whims of an individual parent.


----------



## Samson

Ravi said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is bodecea suggesting we should just be good socialist and accept whatever level of education the government is willing to supply with our tax dollars?  I'm sure that someone at Samson's house is fully aware that a parent has expectations of them doing their best after such efforts have been expended.  Why would it take bullying to get a school district to fulfill their mission?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely not...and I honestly cannot see how you get that from my posts.   Explain, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I got that you feel it would be wrong if not impossible to meet the demands of each and every parent.
> 
> For instance, what if another father insecure about his tenth grader's ability demands a weekly phone conference? And another demands a weekly personal conference. Another demands a teacher correct a weekly summary of the student's version of what was taught that week. Another demands each teacher gives a student a weekly hour coaching session.
> 
> Teachers are already saddled with enough bullshit from the nervous school boards and the freaking NCLB bullshit that they are almost unable to teach anything at all.
> 
> It is up to the community as a whole to set a standard and not the individual parent. Schools have never been set up to cater to the whims of an individual parent.
Click to expand...


Yes, what if parents become involved in schools?



Normally I ignore your stupid frothy ravings, but occasionally you're able to contrive something so outrageously idiotic that I must appreciate it for nothing else if not its comic value.



Jezze you're a moron.


----------



## Ravi

Samson said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely not...and I honestly cannot see how you get that from my posts.   Explain, please.
> 
> 
> 
> I got that you feel it would be wrong if not impossible to meet the demands of each and every parent.
> 
> For instance, what if another father insecure about his tenth grader's ability demands a weekly phone conference? And another demands a weekly personal conference. Another demands a teacher correct a weekly summary of the student's version of what was taught that week. Another demands each teacher gives a student a weekly hour coaching session.
> 
> Teachers are already saddled with enough bullshit from the nervous school boards and the freaking NCLB bullshit that they are almost unable to teach anything at all.
> 
> It is up to the community as a whole to set a standard and not the individual parent. Schools have never been set up to cater to the whims of an individual parent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, what if parents become involved in schools?
> 
> 
> 
> Normally I ignore your stupid frothy ravings, but occasionally you're able to contrive something so outrageously idiotic that I must appreciate it for nothing else if not its comic value.
> 
> 
> 
> Jezze you're a moron.
Click to expand...

Being involved is not the same as being a demanding prick of a hovercraft father.


----------



## Samson

Ravi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I got that you feel it would be wrong if not impossible to meet the demands of each and every parent.
> 
> For instance, what if another father insecure about his tenth grader's ability demands a weekly phone conference? And another demands a weekly personal conference. Another demands a teacher correct a weekly summary of the student's version of what was taught that week. Another demands each teacher gives a student a weekly hour coaching session.
> 
> Teachers are already saddled with enough bullshit from the nervous school boards and the freaking NCLB bullshit that they are almost unable to teach anything at all.
> 
> It is up to the community as a whole to set a standard and not the individual parent. Schools have never been set up to cater to the whims of an individual parent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, what if parents become involved in schools?
> 
> 
> 
> Normally I ignore your stupid frothy ravings, but occasionally you're able to contrive something so outrageously idiotic that I must appreciate it for nothing else if not its comic value.
> 
> 
> 
> Jezze you're a moron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Being involved is not the same as being a demanding prick of a hovercraft father.
Click to expand...




OMG you mean a weekly phone call/meeting/email/graded paper may just push teachers over the edge??



Clearly, you haven't the slightest fucking clue what you are babbling about: I suggest you go drool over another subject for which you may have more expertise: The side effects of a variety of mind altering psychiatric medications and procedures.


----------



## Ravi

Samson said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, what if parents become involved in schools?
> 
> 
> 
> Normally I ignore your stupid frothy ravings, but occasionally you're able to contrive something so outrageously idiotic that I must appreciate it for nothing else if not its comic value.
> 
> 
> 
> Jezze you're a moron.
> 
> 
> 
> Being involved is not the same as being a demanding prick of a hovercraft father.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OMG you mean a weekly phone call/meeting/email/graded paper may just push teachers over the edge??
> 
> 
> 
> Clearly, you haven't the slightest fucking clue what you are babbling about: I suggest you go drool over another subject for which you may have more expertise: The side effects of a variety of mind altering psychiatric medications and procedures.
Click to expand...

I realize you have a genetic defect that prevents you from considering alternate views.

*Narcissistic personality disorder* (*NPD*) is a personality disorder [1].
 The narcissist is described as being excessively preoccupied with issues of personal adequacy, power, and prestige.[2] Narcissistic personality disorder is closely linked to self-centeredness.


----------



## Samson

Ravi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Being involved is not the same as being a demanding prick of a hovercraft father.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OMG you mean a weekly phone call/meeting/email/graded paper may just push teachers over the edge??
> 
> 
> 
> Clearly, you haven't the slightest fucking clue what you are babbling about: I suggest you go drool over another subject for which you may have more expertise: The side effects of a variety of mind altering psychiatric medications and procedures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I realize you have a genetic defect that prevents you from considering alternate views.
> 
> *Narcissistic personality disorder* (*NPD*) is a personality disorder [1].
> The narcissist is described as being excessively preoccupied with issues of personal adequacy, power, and prestige.[2] Narcissistic personality disorder is closely linked to self-centeredness.
Click to expand...



Your Leg-humping doesn't help.

****tries to shake Ravi off left leg****

Damn, you're leaving a stain.


----------



## saveliberty

Ravi said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is bodecea suggesting we should just be good socialist and accept whatever level of education the government is willing to supply with our tax dollars?  I'm sure that someone at Samson's house is fully aware that a parent has expectations of them doing their best after such efforts have been expended.  Why would it take bullying to get a school district to fulfill their mission?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely not...and I honestly cannot see how you get that from my posts.   Explain, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I got that you feel it would be wrong if not impossible to meet the demands of each and every parent.
> 
> For instance, what if another father insecure about his tenth grader's ability demands a weekly phone conference? And another demands a weekly personal conference. Another demands a teacher correct a weekly summary of the student's version of what was taught that week. Another demands each teacher gives a student a weekly hour coaching session.
> 
> Teachers are already saddled with enough bullshit from the nervous school boards and the freaking NCLB bullshit that they are almost unable to teach anything at all.
> 
> It is up to the community as a whole to set a standard and not the individual parent. Schools have never been set up to cater to the whims of an individual parent.
Click to expand...


Samson is just using the standards to make sure his child is getting an education.  Maybe you think getting a piece of paper after attending thirteen years is fine.  Many of us know a whole different story.  It was a failure by the teachers to maintain the school's standards that prompted his inquiries.  If you can't handle working for the public pick a different profession than teaching.


----------



## bodecea

Samson said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it will make you feel better, I'll demand to chaparone the prom while wearing a little black dress.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am a sucker for little black dresses...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'll even have my back waxed, m'k?
Click to expand...


Color me interested....


----------



## Ravi

saveliberty said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely not...and I honestly cannot see how you get that from my posts.   Explain, please.
> 
> 
> 
> I got that you feel it would be wrong if not impossible to meet the demands of each and every parent.
> 
> For instance, what if another father insecure about his tenth grader's ability demands a weekly phone conference? And another demands a weekly personal conference. Another demands a teacher correct a weekly summary of the student's version of what was taught that week. Another demands each teacher gives a student a weekly hour coaching session.
> 
> Teachers are already saddled with enough bullshit from the nervous school boards and the freaking NCLB bullshit that they are almost unable to teach anything at all.
> 
> It is up to the community as a whole to set a standard and not the individual parent. Schools have never been set up to cater to the whims of an individual parent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Samson is just using the standards to make sure his child is getting an education.  Maybe you think getting a piece of paper after attending thirteen years is fine.  Many of us know a whole different story.  It was a failure by the teachers to maintain the school's standards that prompted his inquiries.  If you can't handle working for the public pick a different profession than teaching.
Click to expand...

I think a tenth grader should be self directed to some extent and not need mommy or daddy reviewing his work at every turn.

If this had been a problem with a particular teacher...fine. But squidboi decided at the beginning of the year that all teachers were evil and stupid and acted accordingly.


----------



## kwc57

Ravi said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I got that you feel it would be wrong if not impossible to meet the demands of each and every parent.
> 
> For instance, what if another father insecure about his tenth grader's ability demands a weekly phone conference? And another demands a weekly personal conference. Another demands a teacher correct a weekly summary of the student's version of what was taught that week. Another demands each teacher gives a student a weekly hour coaching session.
> 
> Teachers are already saddled with enough bullshit from the nervous school boards and the freaking NCLB bullshit that they are almost unable to teach anything at all.
> 
> It is up to the community as a whole to set a standard and not the individual parent. Schools have never been set up to cater to the whims of an individual parent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson is just using the standards to make sure his child is getting an education.  Maybe you think getting a piece of paper after attending thirteen years is fine.  Many of us know a whole different story.  It was a failure by the teachers to maintain the school's standards that prompted his inquiries.  If you can't handle working for the public pick a different profession than teaching.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think a tenth grader should be self directed to some extent and not need mommy or daddy reviewing his work at every turn.
> 
> If this had been a problem with a particular teacher...fine. But squidboi decided at the beginning of the year that all teachers were evil and stupid and acted accordingly.
Click to expand...


Yes, and money should grow on trees in the backyard and we shouldn't have to go to work either.  There is fantasy and there is real life.  Should a tenth grader be self directed? Yes, hopefully and a few are.  But many are not.  Parents have a responsibility to raise their children and turn them into decent, educated, self sufficient adults.  The school is where we are forced by law to send them for their book learning.  Keeping track of the progress and the quality of that education is what any intelligent and responsible parent would do.  Obviously, you have never raised a child.  If so and you were the type that dropped them at the door to be babysat and never gave another thought to their education beyond that......well, you probably got what you deserved.


----------



## Cecilie1200

kwc57 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Samson is just using the standards to make sure his child is getting an education.  Maybe you think getting a piece of paper after attending thirteen years is fine.  Many of us know a whole different story.  It was a failure by the teachers to maintain the school's standards that prompted his inquiries.  If you can't handle working for the public pick a different profession than teaching.
> 
> 
> 
> I think a tenth grader should be self directed to some extent and not need mommy or daddy reviewing his work at every turn.
> 
> If this had been a problem with a particular teacher...fine. But squidboi decided at the beginning of the year that all teachers were evil and stupid and acted accordingly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, and money should grow on trees in the backyard and we shouldn't have to go to work either.  There is fantasy and there is real life.  Should a tenth grader be self directed? Yes, hopefully and a few are.  But many are not.  Parents have a responsibility to raise their children and turn them into decent, educated, self sufficient adults.  The school is where we are forced by law to send them for their book learning.  Keeping track of the progress and the quality of that education is what any intelligent and responsible parent would do.  Obviously, you have never raised a child.  If so and you were the type that dropped them at the door to be babysat and never gave another thought to their education beyond that......well, you probably got what you deserved.
Click to expand...


If tenth graders should be able to fend for themselves without any adult supervision, why don't we just declare them legal adults at that age?  And then idiots like Ravi can start bitching about how EIGHTH graders should be totally independent.    I don't personally think _18-year-olds _are all that capable of running their lives without any guidance, and while a tenth grader should certainly have more self-discipline than a kid in elementary school, they ARE still children and their parents ARE still - hopefully - teaching them the ropes of being adults.


----------



## Ravi

kwc57 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Samson is just using the standards to make sure his child is getting an education.  Maybe you think getting a piece of paper after attending thirteen years is fine.  Many of us know a whole different story.  It was a failure by the teachers to maintain the school's standards that prompted his inquiries.  If you can't handle working for the public pick a different profession than teaching.
> 
> 
> 
> I think a tenth grader should be self directed to some extent and not need mommy or daddy reviewing his work at every turn.
> 
> If this had been a problem with a particular teacher...fine. But squidboi decided at the beginning of the year that all teachers were evil and stupid and acted accordingly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Yes, and money should grow on trees in the backyard and we shouldn't have to go to work either.  *There is fantasy and there is real life.  Should a tenth grader be self directed? Yes, hopefully and a few are.  But many are not.  Parents have a responsibility to raise their children and turn them into decent, educated, self sufficient adults.  The school is where we are forced by law to send them for their book learning.  Keeping track of the progress and the quality of that education is what any intelligent and responsible parent would do.  Obviously, you have never raised a child.  If so and you were the type that dropped them at the door to be babysat and never gave another thought to their education beyond that......well, you probably got what you deserved.
Click to expand...

Maybe in your world, but not mine.

As for the rest of your post...piss off.

You want to raise namby pambies that can't think for themselves and need a hovercraft to guide them, be my guest. Don't whine to me when they still live in your basement at 30.


----------



## kwc57

Ravi said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think a tenth grader should be self directed to some extent and not need mommy or daddy reviewing his work at every turn.
> 
> If this had been a problem with a particular teacher...fine. But squidboi decided at the beginning of the year that all teachers were evil and stupid and acted accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Yes, and money should grow on trees in the backyard and we shouldn't have to go to work either.  *There is fantasy and there is real life.  Should a tenth grader be self directed? Yes, hopefully and a few are.  But many are not.  Parents have a responsibility to raise their children and turn them into decent, educated, self sufficient adults.  The school is where we are forced by law to send them for their book learning.  Keeping track of the progress and the quality of that education is what any intelligent and responsible parent would do.  Obviously, you have never raised a child.  If so and you were the type that dropped them at the door to be babysat and never gave another thought to their education beyond that......well, you probably got what you deserved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe in your world, but not mine.
> 
> As for the rest of your post...piss off.
> 
> You want to raise namby pambies that can't think for themselves and need a hovercraft to guide them, be my guest. Don't whine to me when they still live in your basement at 30.
Click to expand...


No, you piss off.  You pop into a long thread and begin popping off without knowing the history of the thread.  Methinks you want to take shots at Samson personally rather than actually add anything of value to the subject at hand......since you haven't yet.

Namby pambies?  Yeah right.  That's what I do.  I'm an Assistant Scoutmaster of a Boy Scout Troop.  Troops are boy led.  While mentored by adults, they hold elections and elect their own youth leadership who actually runs the troop.  They determine their own program, plan their campouts, plan and cook their own menus, etc.  They are taught to be self sufficient.  That's the world I live in.  My son just finished his Eagle Scout project.  He had to find a project, research, plan, recruit help and direct the project.  In addition to the actual project, he has to document the project and present it to a Board of Review to get approval to do it.  Then after it is done, he has to add to the documentation and attend a final Board of Review where the project is signed off.  He tore an old rotting roof off of a pavillion down to the support posts and built a new frame, rafters and roof.  He is 17.  He works 6 days a week and is an honor student who has made all A's except for 6 B's since kindergarten.  Yes, I raised a namby pamby.  Tell me, what have you done?


----------



## Samson

Cecilie1200 said:


> If tenth graders should be able to fend for themselves without any adult supervision, why don't we just declare them legal adults at that age?  And then idiots like Ravi can start bitching about how EIGHTH graders should be totally independent.    I don't personally think _18-year-olds _are all that capable of running their lives without any guidance, and while a tenth grader should certainly have more self-discipline than a kid in elementary school, they ARE still children and their parents ARE still - hopefully - teaching them the ropes of being adults.



Some people are just Bitchy.

It sure in hell would be nice to just have kids fend for themselves at 16, but then they'd be taking the jobs away from the Ravinoids: those who were abandoned by their parents at an early age because they were clearly going to be idiots as adults, no matter how much effort their parents tried to change them.


----------



## syrenn

Ravi said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is bodecea suggesting we should just be good socialist and accept whatever level of education the government is willing to supply with our tax dollars?  I'm sure that someone at Samson's house is fully aware that a parent has expectations of them doing their best after such efforts have been expended.  Why would it take bullying to get a school district to fulfill their mission?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely not...and I honestly cannot see how you get that from my posts.   Explain, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I got that you feel it would be wrong if not impossible to meet the demands of each and every parent.
> 
> For instance, what if another father insecure about his tenth grader's ability demands a weekly phone conference? And another demands a weekly personal conference. Another demands a teacher correct a weekly summary of the student's version of what was taught that week. Another demands each teacher gives a student a weekly hour coaching session.
> 
> Teachers are already saddled with enough bullshit from the nervous school boards and the freaking NCLB bullshit that they are almost unable to teach anything at all.
> 
> It is up to the community as a whole to set a standard and not the individual parent. Schools have never been set up to cater to the whims of an individual parent.
Click to expand...


Ravi, teachers scream till they are blue in the face about the lack of parental involvement in their children's education and school. Then when one shows up looking to be involved they whine because they are to overworked. They cant have it both ways.


----------



## Ravi

syrenn said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely not...and I honestly cannot see how you get that from my posts.   Explain, please.
> 
> 
> 
> I got that you feel it would be wrong if not impossible to meet the demands of each and every parent.
> 
> For instance, what if another father insecure about his tenth grader's ability demands a weekly phone conference? And another demands a weekly personal conference. Another demands a teacher correct a weekly summary of the student's version of what was taught that week. Another demands each teacher gives a student a weekly hour coaching session.
> 
> Teachers are already saddled with enough bullshit from the nervous school boards and the freaking NCLB bullshit that they are almost unable to teach anything at all.
> 
> It is up to the community as a whole to set a standard and not the individual parent. Schools have never been set up to cater to the whims of an individual parent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ravi, teachers scream till they are blue in the face about the lack of parental involvement in their children's education and school. Then when one shows up looking to be involved they whine because they are to overworked. They cant have it both ways.
Click to expand...

There is involved and there is control freak. Big difference.


----------



## Foxfyre

syrenn said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely not...and I honestly cannot see how you get that from my posts.   Explain, please.
> 
> 
> 
> I got that you feel it would be wrong if not impossible to meet the demands of each and every parent.
> 
> For instance, what if another father insecure about his tenth grader's ability demands a weekly phone conference? And another demands a weekly personal conference. Another demands a teacher correct a weekly summary of the student's version of what was taught that week. Another demands each teacher gives a student a weekly hour coaching session.
> 
> Teachers are already saddled with enough bullshit from the nervous school boards and the freaking NCLB bullshit that they are almost unable to teach anything at all.
> 
> It is up to the community as a whole to set a standard and not the individual parent. Schools have never been set up to cater to the whims of an individual parent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ravi, teachers scream till they are blue in the face about the lack of parental involvement in their children's education and school. Then when one shows up looking to be involved they whine because they are to overworked. They cant have it both ways.
Click to expand...


So true.  We worked like the dickens to beg, bribe, coerce, persuade, and if necessary shame parents to get involved in the PTA, take their turn doing Home Room duty, show up for parent/teacher conferences and attend the orientation sessions.  And once we had all that going, the parents found out they could do that, it was rewarding and fun, and all the kids benefitted.  We had booster clubs for the choir, the band, sports, the arts, debate club, etc. etc.etc.  But that was decades ago when both teachers and parents took responsibility for the education of the kids.

Now it seems the less parental involvement there is in the schools here, the better they like it.  It certainly is not encouraged and too freqently is resented or even rebuffed.


----------



## Samson

Ravi said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I got that you feel it would be wrong if not impossible to meet the demands of each and every parent.
> 
> For instance, what if another father insecure about his tenth grader's ability demands a weekly phone conference? And another demands a weekly personal conference. Another demands a teacher correct a weekly summary of the student's version of what was taught that week. Another demands each teacher gives a student a weekly hour coaching session.
> 
> Teachers are already saddled with enough bullshit from the nervous school boards and the freaking NCLB bullshit that they are almost unable to teach anything at all.
> 
> It is up to the community as a whole to set a standard and not the individual parent. Schools have never been set up to cater to the whims of an individual parent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi, teachers scream till they are blue in the face about the lack of parental involvement in their children's education and school. Then when one shows up looking to be involved they whine because they are to overworked. They cant have it both ways.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is involved and there is control freak. Big difference.
Click to expand...


By "involved" Ravi apparently means "hosting bake sales" to pay for the Junior Prom.

Anything more is just too "controlling"......like ..._asking for graded papers_!!!

Ravi, you should just stop while you appear to be just a little less idiotic than you really are.


----------



## Annie

Foxfyre said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I got that you feel it would be wrong if not impossible to meet the demands of each and every parent.
> 
> For instance, what if another father insecure about his tenth grader's ability demands a weekly phone conference? And another demands a weekly personal conference. Another demands a teacher correct a weekly summary of the student's version of what was taught that week. Another demands each teacher gives a student a weekly hour coaching session.
> 
> Teachers are already saddled with enough bullshit from the nervous school boards and the freaking NCLB bullshit that they are almost unable to teach anything at all.
> 
> It is up to the community as a whole to set a standard and not the individual parent. Schools have never been set up to cater to the whims of an individual parent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi, teachers scream till they are blue in the face about the lack of parental involvement in their children's education and school. Then when one shows up looking to be involved they whine because they are to overworked. They cant have it both ways.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So true.  We worked like the dickens to beg, bribe, coerce, persuade, and if necessary shame parents to get involved in the PTA, take their turn doing Home Room duty, show up for parent/teacher conferences and attend the orientation sessions.  And once we had all that going, the parents found out they could do that, it was rewarding and fun, and all the kids benefitted.  We had booster clubs for the choir, the band, sports, the arts, debate club, etc. etc.etc.  But that was decades ago when both teachers and parents took responsibility for the education of the kids.
> 
> Now it seems the less parental involvement there is in the schools here, the better they like it.  It certainly is not encouraged and too freqently is resented or even rebuffed.
Click to expand...


I don't know where you guys are at, but there's no shortage of booster clubs for all you put above and more in our high schools. I wrote last week on Veteran's Day of the project the school did for Soldiers' Angels. Parents donated all the materials to make over 4k luminarias put around the school. Bags, sand, electric lights, markers, and flags. 

Now I will say that in high schools, parents in homerooms, lunch rooms, etc., are not wanted, by students or staff. They do come in for conferences with teachers, etc. That is the norm, as it was back when I was in school, when Chicago was a prairie. They certainly have their work cut out on getting the non-drivers from one thing to another, making sure homework is done, schlepping them around to college visits, hosting dinners before the next meets, games, concerts, debates, etc. They are instrumental in raising funds and helping with rallies, special events, and other ways to show support for the schools, teams, and clubs.

In truth, though I've never had the problem, since I've only worked secondary, parents generally are disruptive in schools if they are interacting with the kids. Honestly, I was a parent before being a teacher and volunteered for reading helper, clean up person, room mother, etc. I'm sure most parents are fine, but heh, you all know the one that will hear a child read or see their writing or notice a graded paper and tell others how 'smart' or 'behind' that child is. It causes no limits of pain for kids, parents, and the teachers. Worse case are very bad teachers that will let parents grade papers for them, they should be fired!


----------



## Ravi

Samson said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi, teachers scream till they are blue in the face about the lack of parental involvement in their children's education and school. Then when one shows up looking to be involved they whine because they are to overworked. They cant have it both ways.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is involved and there is control freak. Big difference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By "involved" Ravi apparently means "hosting bake sales" to pay for the Junior Prom.
> 
> Anything more is just too "controlling"......like ..._asking for graded papers_!!!
> 
> Ravi, you should just stop while you appear to be just a little less idiotic than you really are.
Click to expand...

IMO, control freak means dictating how teachers should teach YOUR child at the expense of others.


----------



## Samson

Ravi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is involved and there is control freak. Big difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By "involved" Ravi apparently means "hosting bake sales" to pay for the Junior Prom.
> 
> Anything more is just too "controlling"......like ..._asking for graded papers_!!!
> 
> Ravi, you should just stop while you appear to be just a little less idiotic than you really are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IMO, control freak means dictating how teachers should teach YOUR child at the expense of others.
Click to expand...


"expense of others?"

Could you be less vaugly moronic, and explain how grading papers costs anyone anything?


----------



## saveliberty

The union asked substitute teachers to stop grading papers, holding parent teacher conferences, while they negoiate with the Detroit school district over pay increases for the long term subs.  Sort of says it all, in my opinion.


----------



## syrenn

Ravi said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I got that you feel it would be wrong if not impossible to meet the demands of each and every parent.
> 
> For instance, what if another father insecure about his tenth grader's ability demands a weekly phone conference? And another demands a weekly personal conference. Another demands a teacher correct a weekly summary of the student's version of what was taught that week. Another demands each teacher gives a student a weekly hour coaching session.
> 
> Teachers are already saddled with enough bullshit from the nervous school boards and the freaking NCLB bullshit that they are almost unable to teach anything at all.
> 
> It is up to the community as a whole to set a standard and not the individual parent. Schools have never been set up to cater to the whims of an individual parent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi, teachers scream till they are blue in the face about the lack of parental involvement in their children's education and school. Then when one shows up looking to be involved they whine because they are to overworked. They cant have it both ways.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is involved and there is control freak. Big difference.
Click to expand...


Asking for graded work back is not being a control freak. Its asking to see teacher involvement and that is what i am very sure they are bitching and pissed off about.


----------



## Annie

saveliberty said:


> The union asked substitute teachers to stop grading papers, holding parent teacher conferences, while they negoiate with the Detroit school district over pay increases for the long term subs.  Sort of says it all, in my opinion.



I don't disagree with you about the effect of unions on the schools or the incredibly idiotic people running some school districts. However, I don't see the relationship to any of that on this topic. Maybe I'm missing something? I thought this was more or less about parents and their involvement or not in schools and the schools reaction to such?


----------



## syrenn

saveliberty said:


> The union asked substitute teachers to stop grading papers, holding parent teacher conferences, while they negoiate with the Detroit school district over pay increases for the long term subs.  Sort of says it all, in my opinion.



The unions are what is wrong with schools now.


----------



## Foxfyre

Annie said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi, teachers scream till they are blue in the face about the lack of parental involvement in their children's education and school. Then when one shows up looking to be involved they whine because they are to overworked. They cant have it both ways.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So true.  We worked like the dickens to beg, bribe, coerce, persuade, and if necessary shame parents to get involved in the PTA, take their turn doing Home Room duty, show up for parent/teacher conferences and attend the orientation sessions.  And once we had all that going, the parents found out they could do that, it was rewarding and fun, and all the kids benefitted.  We had booster clubs for the choir, the band, sports, the arts, debate club, etc. etc.etc.  But that was decades ago when both teachers and parents took responsibility for the education of the kids.
> 
> Now it seems the less parental involvement there is in the schools here, the better they like it.  It certainly is not encouraged and too freqently is resented or even rebuffed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know where you guys are at, but there's no shortage of booster clubs for all you put above and more in our high schools. I wrote last week on Veteran's Day of the project the school did for Soldiers' Angels. Parents donated all the materials to make over 4k luminarias put around the school. Bags, sand, electric lights, markers, and flags.
> 
> Now I will say that in high schools, parents in homerooms, lunch rooms, etc., are not wanted, by students or staff. They do come in for conferences with teachers, etc. That is the norm, as it was back when I was in school, when Chicago was a prairie. They certainly have their work cut out on getting the non-drivers from one thing to another, making sure homework is done, schlepping them around to college visits, hosting dinners before the next meets, games, concerts, debates, etc. They are instrumental in raising funds and helping with rallies, special events, and other ways to show support for the schools, teams, and clubs.
> 
> In truth, though I've never had the problem, since I've only worked secondary, parents generally are disruptive in schools if they are interacting with the kids. Honestly, I was a parent before being a teacher and volunteered for reading helper, clean up person, room mother, etc. I'm sure most parents are fine, but heh, you all know the one that will hear a child read or see their writing or notice a graded paper and tell others how 'smart' or 'behind' that child is. It causes no limits of pain for kids, parents, and the teachers. Worse case are very bad teachers that will let parents grade papers for them, they should be fired!
Click to expand...


Yes we tried to explain to parents that volunteering at the school or taking interest in their kids was not the same thing as being right there with them which we did not encourage.  We had a good relationship with our kids, but other than occasionally tolerating us as chaperones at dances or school bus trips or showing up at awards banquets, etc., we knew we were to stay pretty well out of sight.

I am part of a group, however, who do volunteer in the elementary school--most especially two that have a high number of 'disadvantaged' kids.  We work with the kids one on one to assist with mostly reading, reading comprehension, writing, and math.  The teachers who welcome us in have been great.  That sadly is not the case in every school however.

And agreed.  Parents should not be grading papers or put in a position where their kids and other kids 'performance' is in their face in any way.  I can't see anything positive coming from that.


----------



## Annie

Foxfyre said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> So true.  We worked like the dickens to beg, bribe, coerce, persuade, and if necessary shame parents to get involved in the PTA, take their turn doing Home Room duty, show up for parent/teacher conferences and attend the orientation sessions.  And once we had all that going, the parents found out they could do that, it was rewarding and fun, and all the kids benefitted.  We had booster clubs for the choir, the band, sports, the arts, debate club, etc. etc.etc.  But that was decades ago when both teachers and parents took responsibility for the education of the kids.
> 
> Now it seems the less parental involvement there is in the schools here, the better they like it.  It certainly is not encouraged and too freqently is resented or even rebuffed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know where you guys are at, but there's no shortage of booster clubs for all you put above and more in our high schools. I wrote last week on Veteran's Day of the project the school did for Soldiers' Angels. Parents donated all the materials to make over 4k luminarias put around the school. Bags, sand, electric lights, markers, and flags.
> 
> Now I will say that in high schools, parents in homerooms, lunch rooms, etc., are not wanted, by students or staff. They do come in for conferences with teachers, etc. That is the norm, as it was back when I was in school, when Chicago was a prairie. They certainly have their work cut out on getting the non-drivers from one thing to another, making sure homework is done, schlepping them around to college visits, hosting dinners before the next meets, games, concerts, debates, etc. They are instrumental in raising funds and helping with rallies, special events, and other ways to show support for the schools, teams, and clubs.
> 
> In truth, though I've never had the problem, since I've only worked secondary, parents generally are disruptive in schools if they are interacting with the kids. Honestly, I was a parent before being a teacher and volunteered for reading helper, clean up person, room mother, etc. I'm sure most parents are fine, but heh, you all know the one that will hear a child read or see their writing or notice a graded paper and tell others how 'smart' or 'behind' that child is. It causes no limits of pain for kids, parents, and the teachers. Worse case are very bad teachers that will let parents grade papers for them, they should be fired!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes we tried to explain to parents that volunteering at the school or taking interest in their kids was not the same thing as being right there with them which we did not encourage.  We had a good relationship with our kids, but other than occasionally tolerating us as chaperones at dances or school bus trips or showing up at awards banquets, etc., we knew we were to stay pretty well out of sight.
> 
> I am part of a group, however, who do volunteer in the elementary school--most especially two that have a high number of 'disadvantaged' kids.  We work with the kids one on one to assist with mostly reading, reading comprehension, writing, and math.  The teachers who welcome us in have been great.  That sadly is not the case in every school however.
> 
> And agreed.  Parents should not be grading papers or put in a position where their kids and other kids 'performance' is in their face in any way.  I can't see anything positive coming from that.
Click to expand...


Well you seem like a good parent. Yep, when chaperons needed, parents are great. Again this doesn't happen as often at the secondary level in most cases. The kids really love it when parents come to games, meets, competitions of any sort. Same with concerts, recitals, plays, debates, etc. 

Lower grades it would depend on the school. If they are using parents in classrooms or activities outside of their child's room I can see that as a better alternative. Still there's likely neighborhood kids involved. It's not the 'good' parents that are the problem, it's those that are nasty to begin with. They look for things, it can be something like messy hair or talking/laughing too loud. For some reason they just need to say something to other people. 

In general the best help a teacher can get in any grades are parents that start their toddlers off right with solid schedules on sleeping and eating. Learning to care for themselves about brushing teeth and hair, regular bathing. Give them small 'chores' as 2 and 3 year olds, keep increasing as they are able. Make them do them. Reward them from time-to-time. Talk to them, encourage responses. Ask questions, let them answer. Ask again for more detail or explanations. Read to them. Read to them. Let them tell you stories. Encourage them to be observant and make predictions. (Oh! Look at the sky, what do you think we can do today? Outside or inside? Warm jacket or shorts?)

Take them shopping, help them learn colors and shades of colors. Let them see you looking at labels, tell them why you do. 

Ask them about preschool and friends. What do they like? What don't they like? Why? 

When the start K or 1st and begin homework, keep up schedules. Set time to do homework-that works for your family. When mine were small I was at home. So I'd walk to the school and we'd walk home. The kids changed clothes, had a snack and then it was homework. They could go outside or watch tv until time to make dinner. If parents are working, probably going to be different-but don't expect the after school program to actually make sure that the homework is done correctly! You need to check it and talk to your child about it. 

A thing about 'homework.' If you look at a paper and it's just 'all wrong,' ask your child what the lesson was. It doesn't matter what grade, kindergarten or high school. If the response is that it was just assigned and new material, I wouldn't make the child redo it, but I would send an attached note to the teacher asking when it was taught. I'd ask them to sign and return the note. If it's 'new material', not covered in class, it shouldn't be assigned as homework. Homework is for reinforcing, not learning. 

On the other hand, reading assignments and 'study for the test' are assignments. The first is unlikely until 4th grade and up, but is to build some base of knowledge before the lesson. Often it is also to jog memories of the topic from a year or so ago.


----------



## kwc57

Ravi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is involved and there is control freak. Big difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By "involved" Ravi apparently means "hosting bake sales" to pay for the Junior Prom.
> 
> Anything more is just too "controlling"......like ..._asking for graded papers_!!!
> 
> Ravi, you should just stop while you appear to be just a little less idiotic than you really are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IMO, control freak means dictating how teachers should teach YOUR child at the expense of others.
Click to expand...


And had you actually read this thread, you'd know that has nothing to do with what Samson asked.


----------



## sangha

Samson said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> All teachers complied with _*my policy*_ this week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Congratulations, you have taught your child that being a bully will get him what he wants.
> 
> Although I suspect he will pay the price for your arrogance, don't think his work might be graded a little more closely than that of some of the other kids do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I taught him to advocate for himself in the face of unmoving bureaucracy, and how to win against unyielding bullshit.
> 
> King George III may be your hero, but he's not mine. You go ahead and teach your kids to be pussies, and how to bend over every time they're told to reach for the soap.
> 
> I'm sure you'll be a great example.
Click to expand...


In wingnut world, doing something for their child is how wingnuts teach their children to do things for themselves.

Hey Samson, wasn't this all precipitated by your childs' failure to bring the graded work home for you to see? How about you teach the child to bring the graded work for you to see??


----------



## sangha

Ravi said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think a tenth grader should be self directed to some extent and not need mommy or daddy reviewing his work at every turn.
> 
> If this had been a problem with a particular teacher...fine. But squidboi decided at the beginning of the year that all teachers were evil and stupid and acted accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Yes, and money should grow on trees in the backyard and we shouldn't have to go to work either.  *There is fantasy and there is real life.  Should a tenth grader be self directed? Yes, hopefully and a few are.  But many are not.  Parents have a responsibility to raise their children and turn them into decent, educated, self sufficient adults.  The school is where we are forced by law to send them for their book learning.  Keeping track of the progress and the quality of that education is what any intelligent and responsible parent would do.  Obviously, you have never raised a child.  If so and you were the type that dropped them at the door to be babysat and never gave another thought to their education beyond that......well, you probably got what you deserved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe in your world, but not mine.
> 
> As for the rest of your post...piss off.
> 
> You want to raise namby pambies that can't think for themselves and need a hovercraft to guide them, be my guest. Don't whine to me when they still live in your basement at 30.
Click to expand...


Take it easy on the wingnuts, ravi. They're just indoctrinating their spawn to believe they are entitled to a govt that will nanny their children for them. That's what happens when welfare queen wingnuts develop a dependency on the govt to raise their children, This way, when their children grow up to be failures, their children can blame the govt, just like mommy and daddy does.


----------



## sangha

Samson said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If tenth graders should be able to fend for themselves without any adult supervision, why don't we just declare them legal adults at that age?  And then idiots like Ravi can start bitching about how EIGHTH graders should be totally independent.    I don't personally think _18-year-olds _are all that capable of running their lives without any guidance, and while a tenth grader should certainly have more self-discipline than a kid in elementary school, they ARE still children and their parents ARE still - hopefully - teaching them the ropes of being adults.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people are just Bitchy.
> 
> It sure in hell would be nice to just have kids fend for themselves at 16, but then they'd be taking the jobs away from the Ravinoids: those who were abandoned by their parents at an early age because they were clearly going to be idiots as adults, no matter how much effort their parents tried to change them.
Click to expand...


In wingnut world, getting your child to bring his graded class work home is so difficult, it can be compared to abandoning your child.


----------



## sangha

Samson said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> By "involved" Ravi apparently means "hosting bake sales" to pay for the Junior Prom.
> 
> Anything more is just too "controlling"......like ..._asking for graded papers_!!!
> 
> Ravi, you should just stop while you appear to be just a little less idiotic than you really are.
> 
> 
> 
> IMO, control freak means dictating how teachers should teach YOUR child at the expense of others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "expense of others?"
> 
> Could you be less vaugly moronic, and explain how grading papers costs anyone anything?
Click to expand...


Samson is so dishonest, he can't even be honest about what he's asking for

He's already admitted that the teachers are grading the papers. What samson is asking for is that every teacher send samson a graded paper every week. I wonder why samson can't be honest about something so simple


----------



## Samson

In this 4 Month Saga of trying to get one graded paper/subject/week has been a meeting on 12/13 where a panal of teachers from the school, the AP, and an HR representative from the district have invited me to _FURTHER_ express my concerns.

This may require not working for the Entire Day so that I may reitrerate, for perhaps the 12th-15th time, why teaching includes:

1. confirming whether or not anything has been learned,
2. confirming learning on a weekly basis is quite reasonable if; A. The class meets; B. The teacher is Present; C. The students are Present.

The teacher, the student, and the parents benefit from frequent detailed feedback regarding What is being taught and How learning is being evaluated.

It is SHOCKING to me that I'm being invited to repeat these fundamental concepts as "MY concerns." It would seem they would be the primary concerns of the school!!!

Rather than going to another fucking meeting, I may just call the AP, let him know that while he may enjoy this circle jerk, I have better things to do, and give him a short lecture on how to do his goddamn job assuming he can grow the balls to do it!


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> In this 4 Month Saga of trying to get one graded paper/subject/week has been a meeting on 12/13 where a panal of teachers from the school, the AP, and an HR representative from the district have invited me to _FURTHER_ express my concerns.
> 
> This may require not working for the Entire Day so that I may reitrerate, for perhaps the 12th-15th time, why teaching includes:
> 
> 1. confirming whether or not anything has been learned,
> 2. confirming learning on a weekly basis is quite reasonable if; A. The class meets; B. The teacher is Present; C. The students are Present.
> 
> The teacher, the student, and the parents benefit from frequent detailed feedback regarding What is being taught and How learning is being evaluated.
> 
> It is SHOCKING to me that I'm being invited to repeat these fundamental concepts as "MY concerns." It would seem they would be the primary concerns of the school!!!
> 
> Rather than going to another fucking meeting, I may just call the AP, let him know that while he may enjoy this circle jerk, I have better things to do, and give him a short lecture on how to do his goddamn job assuming he can grow the balls to do it!




As a parent, you are not going to go to a meeting to discuss your child's school progress and the means by which you would like to assess said progress...because _you have better things to do???_

RICH!


----------



## kwc57

Samson said:


> In this 4 Month Saga of trying to get one graded paper/subject/week has been a meeting on 12/13 where a panal of teachers from the school, the AP, and an HR representative from the district have invited me to _FURTHER_ express my concerns.
> 
> This may require not working for the Entire Day so that I may reitrerate, for perhaps the 12th-15th time, why teaching includes:
> 
> 1. confirming whether or not anything has been learned,
> 2. confirming learning on a weekly basis is quite reasonable if; A. The class meets; B. The teacher is Present; C. The students are Present.
> 
> The teacher, the student, and the parents benefit from frequent detailed feedback regarding What is being taught and How learning is being evaluated.
> 
> It is SHOCKING to me that I'm being invited to repeat these fundamental concepts as "MY concerns." It would seem they would be the primary concerns of the school!!!
> 
> Rather than going to another fucking meeting, I may just call the AP, let him know that while he may enjoy this circle jerk, I have better things to do, and give him a short lecture on how to do his goddamn job assuming he can grow the balls to do it!



Now isn't the time to throw in the towel.


----------



## Ravi

xotoxi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> In this 4 Month Saga of trying to get one graded paper/subject/week has been a meeting on 12/13 where a panal of teachers from the school, the AP, and an HR representative from the district have invited me to _FURTHER_ express my concerns.
> 
> This may require not working for the Entire Day so that I may reitrerate, for perhaps the 12th-15th time, why teaching includes:
> 
> 1. confirming whether or not anything has been learned,
> 2. confirming learning on a weekly basis is quite reasonable if; A. The class meets; B. The teacher is Present; C. The students are Present.
> 
> The teacher, the student, and the parents benefit from frequent detailed feedback regarding What is being taught and How learning is being evaluated.
> 
> It is SHOCKING to me that I'm being invited to repeat these fundamental concepts as "MY concerns." It would seem they would be the primary concerns of the school!!!
> 
> Rather than going to another fucking meeting, I may just call the AP, let him know that while he may enjoy this circle jerk, I have better things to do, and give him a short lecture on how to do his goddamn job assuming he can grow the balls to do it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a parent, you are not going to go to a meeting to discuss your child's school progress and the means by which you would like to assess said progress...because _you have better things to do???_
> 
> RICH!
Click to expand...

yuk yuk!


----------



## ConHog

Samson, as a school board member at this point I would have told you to fuck off, The ESTABLISHED precedent for updating parents is quarterly, not weekly. It is YOUR job to make sure your child is bringing home graded papers and tests.

My next step would be to obtain a TRO and see that it was enforced. And don't think a school can't obtain one against a nuisance parent, which you clearly are.

If that failed I would have no problem slapping the fuck out of your bitch ass. Seriously, why do you think you have the right to bully a school?

PS The bit about you might not even go to the meeting they scheduled made me laugh out loud. Here is EXACTLY how that would play out at my school

Well Superintendent __________________ It seems that Mr Samson has not bothered to show up to a meeting that concerns his child, so here is how we shall proceed. Block his emails from hitting our servers, and instruct our receptionists to hang up if he calls , but record the time, and you Mr School Attorney obtain that TRO.

What a liar you are when you claim that you only have your child's best interests at heart.

BTW - I truly may have missed your answer, but did you ever answer as to whether you ever volunteer to help at your school?


----------



## Ravi

Holy shit I feel an urge to pos rep cornjob...Jebus save me!


----------



## RadiomanATL

Ravi said:


> Holy shit I feel an urge to pos rep cornjob...Jebus save me!


----------



## ConHog

Ravi said:


> Holy shit I feel an urge to pos rep cornjob...Jebus save me!



It's just too bad that you already did today.........


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> In this 4 Month Saga of trying to get one graded paper/subject/week has been a meeting on 12/13 where a panal of teachers from the school, the AP, and an HR representative from the district have invited me to _FURTHER_ express my concerns.
> 
> This may require not working for the Entire Day so that I may reitrerate, for perhaps the 12th-15th time, why teaching includes:
> 
> 1. confirming whether or not anything has been learned,
> 2. confirming learning on a weekly basis is quite reasonable if; A. The class meets; B. The teacher is Present; C. The students are Present.
> 
> The teacher, the student, and the parents benefit from frequent detailed feedback regarding What is being taught and How learning is being evaluated.
> 
> It is SHOCKING to me that I'm being invited to repeat these fundamental concepts as "MY concerns." It would seem they would be the primary concerns of the school!!!
> 
> Rather than going to another fucking meeting, I may just call the AP, let him know that while he may enjoy this circle jerk, I have better things to do, and give him a short lecture on how to do his goddamn job assuming he can grow the balls to do it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a parent, you are not going to go to a meeting to discuss your child's school progress and the means by which you would like to assess said progress...because _you have better things to do???_
> 
> RICH!
Click to expand...


The meeting is not to discuss my "child's school progress."

Try paying attention.


----------



## ConHog

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> In this 4 Month Saga of trying to get one graded paper/subject/week has been a meeting on 12/13 where a panal of teachers from the school, the AP, and an HR representative from the district have invited me to _FURTHER_ express my concerns.
> 
> This may require not working for the Entire Day so that I may reitrerate, for perhaps the 12th-15th time, why teaching includes:
> 
> 1. confirming whether or not anything has been learned,
> 2. confirming learning on a weekly basis is quite reasonable if; A. The class meets; B. The teacher is Present; C. The students are Present.
> 
> The teacher, the student, and the parents benefit from frequent detailed feedback regarding What is being taught and How learning is being evaluated.
> 
> It is SHOCKING to me that I'm being invited to repeat these fundamental concepts as "MY concerns." It would seem they would be the primary concerns of the school!!!
> 
> Rather than going to another fucking meeting, I may just call the AP, let him know that while he may enjoy this circle jerk, I have better things to do, and give him a short lecture on how to do his goddamn job assuming he can grow the balls to do it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a parent, you are not going to go to a meeting to discuss your child's school progress a*nd the means by which you would like to assess said progress*...because _you have better things to do???_
> 
> RICH!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The meeting is not to discuss my "child's school progress."
> 
> Try paying attention.
Click to expand...


I can see why your child is failing, your poor example. You only read half the sentence it seems.

And please answer my question. Have you ever volunteered to help out at the school or attended a school board meeting when you didn't have something to bitch about?


----------



## Samson

kwc57 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> In this 4 Month Saga of trying to get one graded paper/subject/week has been a meeting on 12/13 where a panal of teachers from the school, the AP, and an HR representative from the district have invited me to _FURTHER_ express my concerns.
> 
> This may require not working for the Entire Day so that I may reitrerate, for perhaps the 12th-15th time, why teaching includes:
> 
> 1. confirming whether or not anything has been learned,
> 2. confirming learning on a weekly basis is quite reasonable if; A. The class meets; B. The teacher is Present; C. The students are Present.
> 
> The teacher, the student, and the parents benefit from frequent detailed feedback regarding What is being taught and How learning is being evaluated.
> 
> It is SHOCKING to me that I'm being invited to repeat these fundamental concepts as "MY concerns." It would seem they would be the primary concerns of the school!!!
> 
> Rather than going to another fucking meeting, I may just call the AP, let him know that while he may enjoy this circle jerk, I have better things to do, and give him a short lecture on how to do his goddamn job assuming he can grow the balls to do it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now isn't the time to throw in the towel.
Click to expand...


Well, I haven't decided yet whether to hang out all day waiting until the afternoon meeting. If I must work, then I won't bother, but will have a simple, short phone conversation with the admin. If I can make it, I'll have a very short, simple presentation to the committee. The district's protocol says that if I'm not satisfied with the outcome of whatever the committe decides (all I've asked is what I've asked for since August), then I can present to the Board: It's really this presentation for which I'm keeping my powder dry.


----------



## Samson

ConHog said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a parent, you are not going to go to a meeting to discuss your child's school progress a*nd the means by which you would like to assess said progress*...because _you have better things to do???_
> 
> RICH!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The meeting is not to discuss my "child's school progress."
> 
> Try paying attention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can see why your child is failing, your poor example. You only read half the sentence it seems.
> 
> And please answer my question. Have you ever volunteered to help out at the school or attended a school board meeting when you didn't have something to bitch about?
Click to expand...


Moron, pay attention: It's not the topic of this thread.


Perhaps you should start a thread about "Volunteering at School."


----------



## sangha

ConHog said:


> Samson, as a school board member at this point I would have told you to fuck off, The ESTABLISHED precedent for updating parents is quarterly, not weekly. It is YOUR job to make sure your child is bringing home graded papers and tests.
> 
> My next step would be to obtain a TRO and see that it was enforced. And don't think a school can't obtain one against a nuisance parent, which you clearly are.
> 
> If that failed I would have no problem slapping the fuck out of your bitch ass. Seriously, why do you think you have the right to bully a school?
> 
> PS The bit about you might not even go to the meeting they scheduled made me laugh out loud. Here is EXACTLY how that would play out at my school
> 
> Well Superintendent __________________ It seems that Mr Samson has not bothered to show up to a meeting that concerns his child, so here is how we shall proceed. Block his emails from hitting our servers, and instruct our receptionists to hang up if he calls , but record the time, and you Mr School Attorney obtain that TRO.
> 
> What a liar you are when you claim that you only have your child's best interests at heart.
> 
> BTW - I truly may have missed your answer, but did you ever answer as to whether you ever volunteer to help at your school?



Since you are a school board member, I'm surprised you haven't learned how a school board member says "Fuck you" to a students arrogant parent. It goes "I'll schedule a meeting for all us to discuss the issue thouroughly"

And that's exactly what the school is doing. They're making Samson run laps.


----------



## sangha

Samson said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> The meeting is not to discuss my "child's school progress."
> 
> Try paying attention.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can see why your child is failing, your poor example. You only read half the sentence it seems.
> 
> And please answer my question. Have you ever volunteered to help out at the school or attended a school board meeting when you didn't have something to bitch about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Moron, pay attention: It's not the topic of this thread.
> 
> 
> Perhaps you should start a thread about "Volunteering at School."
Click to expand...


I think we all know what that means


----------



## ConHog

sangha said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Samson, as a school board member at this point I would have told you to fuck off, The ESTABLISHED precedent for updating parents is quarterly, not weekly. It is YOUR job to make sure your child is bringing home graded papers and tests.
> 
> My next step would be to obtain a TRO and see that it was enforced. And don't think a school can't obtain one against a nuisance parent, which you clearly are.
> 
> If that failed I would have no problem slapping the fuck out of your bitch ass. Seriously, why do you think you have the right to bully a school?
> 
> PS The bit about you might not even go to the meeting they scheduled made me laugh out loud. Here is EXACTLY how that would play out at my school
> 
> Well Superintendent __________________ It seems that Mr Samson has not bothered to show up to a meeting that concerns his child, so here is how we shall proceed. Block his emails from hitting our servers, and instruct our receptionists to hang up if he calls , but record the time, and you Mr School Attorney obtain that TRO.
> 
> What a liar you are when you claim that you only have your child's best interests at heart.
> 
> BTW - I truly may have missed your answer, but did you ever answer as to whether you ever volunteer to help at your school?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you are a school board member, I'm surprised you haven't learned how a school board member says "Fuck you" to a students arrogant parent. It goes "I'll schedule a meeting for all us to discuss the issue thouroughly"
> 
> And that's exactly what the school is doing. They're making Samson run laps.
Click to expand...


Actually it goes, "I'll consult with the district attorney about just what we actually do and don't have to do and do exactly that and no more." 

Pea brain Samson will never win.


----------



## sangha

ConHog said:


> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Samson, as a school board member at this point I would have told you to fuck off, The ESTABLISHED precedent for updating parents is quarterly, not weekly. It is YOUR job to make sure your child is bringing home graded papers and tests.
> 
> My next step would be to obtain a TRO and see that it was enforced. And don't think a school can't obtain one against a nuisance parent, which you clearly are.
> 
> If that failed I would have no problem slapping the fuck out of your bitch ass. Seriously, why do you think you have the right to bully a school?
> 
> PS The bit about you might not even go to the meeting they scheduled made me laugh out loud. Here is EXACTLY how that would play out at my school
> 
> Well Superintendent __________________ It seems that Mr Samson has not bothered to show up to a meeting that concerns his child, so here is how we shall proceed. Block his emails from hitting our servers, and instruct our receptionists to hang up if he calls , but record the time, and you Mr School Attorney obtain that TRO.
> 
> What a liar you are when you claim that you only have your child's best interests at heart.
> 
> BTW - I truly may have missed your answer, but did you ever answer as to whether you ever volunteer to help at your school?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you are a school board member, I'm surprised you haven't learned how a school board member says "Fuck you" to a students arrogant parent. It goes "I'll schedule a meeting for all us to discuss the issue thouroughly"
> 
> And that's exactly what the school is doing. They're making Samson run laps.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually it goes, "I'll consult with the district attorney about just what we actually do and don't have to do and do exactly that and no more."
> 
> Pea brain Samson will never win.
Click to expand...


That works for me!

What I DON'T understand is how Samson, who claims to have worked in the education field in some capacity, doesn't understand how he's being given the runaround.


----------



## kwc57

ConHog said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a parent, you are not going to go to a meeting to discuss your child's school progress a*nd the means by which you would like to assess said progress*...because _you have better things to do???_
> 
> RICH!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The meeting is not to discuss my "child's school progress."
> 
> Try paying attention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can see why your child is failing, your poor example. You only read half the sentence it seems.
> 
> And please answer my question. Have you ever volunteered to help out at the school or attended a school board meeting when you didn't have something to bitch about?
Click to expand...


Have you always been a fucking moron by nature or do you have to work at it?  Go back thru this thread and find a single example of where Samson ever said his child was failing.  All he has asked for is some accountability on the teacher and school's part to provide information on what material is being taught in the classroom and examples of the graded assignments.  I doubt that you are actually a school board member and I doubt that you are in a totally digital system in your district.  An extensive internet search couldn't come up with any such school systems in Arkansas.  If you are a school board member, then you are part of the problem we are experiencing today with government education.  You want to indoctrinate kids with what the government deems an education and expect the parents to accept your "trust us" attitude.  Fuck you!  AS long as our taxes pay for that education and you have our children sitting in your classroom by compulsion, you damn well need to show some respect and accountability.  Moron!


----------



## Ravi

kwc57 said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> The meeting is not to discuss my "child's school progress."
> 
> Try paying attention.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can see why your child is failing, your poor example. You only read half the sentence it seems.
> 
> And please answer my question. Have you ever volunteered to help out at the school or attended a school board meeting when you didn't have something to bitch about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you always been a fucking moron by nature or do you have to work at it?  Go back thru this thread and find a single example of where Samson ever said his child was failing.  All he has asked for is some accountability on the teacher and school's part to provide information on what material is being taught in the classroom and examples of the graded assignments.  I doubt that you are actually a school board member and I doubt that you are in a totally digital system in your district. * An extensive internet search couldn't come up with any such school systems in Arkansas*.  If you are a school board member, then you are part of the problem we are experiencing today with government education.  You want to indoctrinate kids with what the government deems an education and expect the parents to accept your "trust us" attitude.  Fuck you!  AS long as our taxes pay for that education and you have our children sitting in your classroom by compulsion, you damn well need to show some respect and accountability.  Moron!
Click to expand...

Your internet skills suck. Took me all of five seconds.

https://texarkana.grade.pinnaclesui...gon.aspx?ReturnUrl=/Pinnacle/PIV/Default.aspx


----------



## sangha




----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> In this 4 Month Saga of trying to get one graded paper/subject/week has been a meeting on 12/13 where a panal of teachers from the school, the AP, and an HR representative from the district have invited me to _FURTHER_ express my concerns.
> 
> This may require not working for the Entire Day so that I may reitrerate, for perhaps the 12th-15th time, why teaching includes:
> 
> 1. confirming whether or not anything has been learned,
> 2. confirming learning on a weekly basis is quite reasonable if; A. The class meets; B. The teacher is Present; C. The students are Present.
> 
> The teacher, the student, and the parents benefit from frequent detailed feedback regarding What is being taught and How learning is being evaluated.
> 
> It is SHOCKING to me that I'm being invited to repeat these fundamental concepts as "MY concerns." It would seem they would be the primary concerns of the school!!!
> 
> Rather than going to another fucking meeting, I may just call the AP, let him know that while he may enjoy this circle jerk, I have better things to do, and give him a short lecture on how to do his goddamn job assuming he can grow the balls to do it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a parent, you are not going to go to a meeting to discuss your child's school progress and the means by which you would like to assess said progress...because _you have better things to do???_
> 
> RICH!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The meeting is not to discuss my "child's school progress."
> 
> Try paying attention.
Click to expand...


But it is about "the means by which you would like to assess said progress".

Learn to read for content.


----------



## kwc57

Ravi said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can see why your child is failing, your poor example. You only read half the sentence it seems.
> 
> And please answer my question. Have you ever volunteered to help out at the school or attended a school board meeting when you didn't have something to bitch about?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you always been a fucking moron by nature or do you have to work at it?  Go back thru this thread and find a single example of where Samson ever said his child was failing.  All he has asked for is some accountability on the teacher and school's part to provide information on what material is being taught in the classroom and examples of the graded assignments.  I doubt that you are actually a school board member and I doubt that you are in a totally digital system in your district. * An extensive internet search couldn't come up with any such school systems in Arkansas*.  If you are a school board member, then you are part of the problem we are experiencing today with government education.  You want to indoctrinate kids with what the government deems an education and expect the parents to accept your "trust us" attitude.  Fuck you!  AS long as our taxes pay for that education and you have our children sitting in your classroom by compulsion, you damn well need to show some respect and accountability.  Moron!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your internet skills suck. Took me all of five seconds.
> 
> https://texarkana.grade.pinnaclesui...gon.aspx?ReturnUrl=/Pinnacle/PIV/Default.aspx
Click to expand...


Your comprehension skills suck.  We've discussed the systems such as what you just provided.  My son's school system has the same kind of service and I view it several times a week.

https://campus.mooreschools.com/campus/portal/moore.jsp

Conhog claims that the school system he sits on the board for is totally digital.  All assignments and testing and reporting is done digitally.  They are paper free.  There are no assignements on paper to show a parent.  Since you believe yourself to have superior internet skills, go find us this supposed school system in Arkansas and tell us who it is.


----------



## ConHog

kwc57 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you always been a fucking moron by nature or do you have to work at it?  Go back thru this thread and find a single example of where Samson ever said his child was failing.  All he has asked for is some accountability on the teacher and school's part to provide information on what material is being taught in the classroom and examples of the graded assignments.  I doubt that you are actually a school board member and I doubt that you are in a totally digital system in your district. * An extensive internet search couldn't come up with any such school systems in Arkansas*.  If you are a school board member, then you are part of the problem we are experiencing today with government education.  You want to indoctrinate kids with what the government deems an education and expect the parents to accept your "trust us" attitude.  Fuck you!  AS long as our taxes pay for that education and you have our children sitting in your classroom by compulsion, you damn well need to show some respect and accountability.  Moron!
> 
> 
> 
> Your internet skills suck. Took me all of five seconds.
> 
> https://texarkana.grade.pinnaclesui...gon.aspx?ReturnUrl=/Pinnacle/PIV/Default.aspx
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your comprehension skills suck.  We've discussed the systems such as what you just provided.  My son's school system has the same kind of service and I view it several times a week.
> 
> https://campus.mooreschools.com/campus/portal/moore.jsp
> 
> Conhog claims that the school system he sits on the board for is totally digital.  All assignments and testing and reporting is done digitally.  They are paper free.  There are no assignements on paper to show a parent.  Since you believe yourself to have superior internet skills, go find us this supposed school system in Arkansas and tell us who it is.
Click to expand...


I'll give you a hint there genius, we are not unique.

Digital books replacing print in schools | PRI.ORG

There are many other links about schools going this route, not my fault you don't know what you're talking about.

Not that this has a damned thing to do with this thread.

PS - you absolutely have the right to have a say in your child's education. You do NOT have a right to harass and bully school employees, or to make a nuisance of yourself.


On, one other thing, I NEVER said we didn't have graded assignments to show parents. In fact I said the opposite , a parent can use their login and password to access any of their child's graded assignments that are on the school's servers. They are more than welcome to print them off if they wish. The school does not do so, nor do we offer printed report cards. Do you have ANY idea how much money a school saves per year by doing so? I know exactly to the dime how much our school saves.

Also, yes our local paper covered the story of us going digital, and yes it is online; but I have no desire for my identity or location to be known online, so I won't be providing a link. I'm fine with you calling BS on what is obviously the future of education.


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a parent, you are not going to go to a meeting to discuss your child's school progress and the means by which you would like to assess said progress...because _you have better things to do???_
> 
> RICH!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The meeting is not to discuss my "child's school progress."
> 
> Try paying attention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But it is about "the means by which you would like to assess said progress".
> 
> Learn to read for content.
Click to expand...


Wrong again.

You have a flair for putting the "Ass" in assume: The meeting is to address my complaint about a teacher's inability, incompetence, or whatever burr is up her butt, that prevents her from producing a graded paper once a week.

You _assume_ a graded paper/week does equal the total "said progress." I have never implied this. There could be many components to progress. I have only asked to see one graded paper per week as a _minimum example_.


----------



## Samson

kwc57 said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> The meeting is not to discuss my "child's school progress."
> 
> Try paying attention.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can see why your child is failing, your poor example. You only read half the sentence it seems.
> 
> And please answer my question. Have you ever volunteered to help out at the school or attended a school board meeting when you didn't have something to bitch about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you always been a fucking moron by nature or do you have to work at it?  Go back thru this thread and find a single example of where Samson ever said his child was failing.  All he has asked for is some accountability on the teacher and school's part to provide information on what material is being taught in the classroom and examples of the graded assignments.  I doubt that you are actually a school board member and I doubt that you are in a totally digital system in your district.  An extensive internet search couldn't come up with any such school systems in Arkansas.  If you are a school board member, then you are part of the problem we are experiencing today with government education.  You want to indoctrinate kids with what the government deems an education and expect the parents to accept your "trust us" attitude.  Fuck you!  AS long as our taxes pay for that education and you have our children sitting in your classroom by compulsion, you damn well need to show some respect and accountability.  Moron!
Click to expand...


Watch your tone: You don't want to "bully" poor innocent Conhog.


----------



## ConHog

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> The meeting is not to discuss my "child's school progress."
> 
> Try paying attention.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But it is about "the means by which you would like to assess said progress".
> 
> Learn to read for content.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong again.
> 
> You have a flair for putting the "Ass" in assume: The meeting is to address my complaint about a teacher's inability, incompetence, or whatever burr is up her butt, that prevents her from producing a graded paper once a week.
> 
> You _assume_ a graded paper/week does equal the total "said progress." I have never implied this. There could be many components to progress. I have only asked to see one graded paper per week as a _minimum example_.
Click to expand...


blah blah blah, you are PLAINLY only doing this to be a nuisance.


----------



## Samson

ConHog said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> But it is about "the means by which you would like to assess said progress".
> 
> Learn to read for content.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again.
> 
> You have a flair for putting the "Ass" in assume: The meeting is to address my complaint about a teacher's inability, incompetence, or whatever burr is up her butt, that prevents her from producing a graded paper once a week.
> 
> You _assume_ a graded paper/week does equal the total "said progress." I have never implied this. There could be many components to progress. I have only asked to see one graded paper per week as a _minimum example_.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> blah blah blah, you are PLAINLY only doing this to be a nuisance.
Click to expand...


Plainly, my "nuisance" hasn't been enough to alter one teacher's habit's.

But, if she wants to hang herself over one graded paper/week, I'll be happy to watch.

There's lots of people that need work these days.


----------



## sangha

ConHog said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> But it is about "the means by which you would like to assess said progress".
> 
> Learn to read for content.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again.
> 
> You have a flair for putting the "Ass" in assume: The meeting is to address my complaint about a teacher's inability, incompetence, or whatever burr is up her butt, that prevents her from producing a graded paper once a week.
> 
> You _assume_ a graded paper/week does equal the total "said progress." I have never implied this. There could be many components to progress. I have only asked to see one graded paper per week as a _minimum example_.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> blah blah blah, you are PLAINLY only doing this to be a nuisance.
Click to expand...


He has even given up the pretense that this has anything to do with his child. Now, instead of wanting to monitor his childs performance, he is claiming that he is trying to get the school to implement some minimum standard just for the heck of it.


----------



## Samson

made up of the AP, Director of HR, and two teachers (English and Science), went OK yesterday, I think.

I explained my complaint, in detail, and stated that I was surprised that what I considered a fairly simple request had required so much administrative attention, and somewhat under his breath, the HR Director agreed.

The next step is to receive the recommendation of the committee. If I don't like it, then I go to the Superintendent, then the School Board.

Should be interesting.


----------



## Modbert

This thread has been going on for so long that it should be renamed to living in the Principal's office.


----------



## xotoxi

Besides receiving a graded paper each week, what would you consider a good endpoint?

A teacher being fired?  The principle being fired?  You child being expelled?  You being told that under no circumstances would you be allowed on school property or you would be arrested?


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> Besides receiving a graded paper each week, what would you consider a good endpoint?
> 
> A teacher being fired?  The principle being fired?  You child being expelled?  You being told that under no circumstances would you be allowed on school property or you would be arrested?



I told the committee that I had no idea about the teacher's qualifications to do herjob within the many, many dimensions that I had not, and could not observe, but that I assumed that they were all excellent.

I believe the Principal has been a typical Bureaucrat: #1. CYA.

I think he ADVISED the teachers, and this one didn't understand, or receive, or comly with the message, and now he's letting her swing.

Since I've only entered the school because I've been invited, I wouldn't really be effected by a ban from the premises.

They cannot expel ANY student without overwhelming cause. The older slave hasn't broken any rule.


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Besides receiving a graded paper each week, what would you consider a good endpoint?
> 
> A teacher being fired?  The principle being fired?  You child being expelled?  You being told that under no circumstances would you be allowed on school property or you would be arrested?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I told the committee that I had no idea about the teacher's qualifications to do herjob within the many, many dimensions that I had not, and could not observe, but that I assumed that they were all excellent.
> 
> I believe the Principal has been a typical Bureaucrat: #1. CYA.
> 
> I think he ADVISED the teachers, and this one didn't understand, or receive, or comly with the message, and now he's letting her swing.
> 
> Since I've only entered the school because I've been invited, I wouldn't really be effected by a ban from the premises.
> 
> They cannot expel ANY student without overwhelming cause. The older slave hasn't broken any rule.
Click to expand...


Has the older slave said "DAAaaAAd!  Like...knock it off!"


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Besides receiving a graded paper each week, what would you consider a good endpoint?
> 
> A teacher being fired?  The principle being fired?  You child being expelled?  You being told that under no circumstances would you be allowed on school property or you would be arrested?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I told the committee that I had no idea about the teacher's qualifications to do herjob within the many, many dimensions that I had not, and could not observe, but that I assumed that they were all excellent.
> 
> I believe the Principal has been a typical Bureaucrat: #1. CYA.
> 
> I think he ADVISED the teachers, and this one didn't understand, or receive, or comly with the message, and now he's letting her swing.
> 
> Since I've only entered the school because I've been invited, I wouldn't really be effected by a ban from the premises.
> 
> They cannot expel ANY student without overwhelming cause. The older slave hasn't broken any rule.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Has the older slave said "DAAaaAAd!  Like...knock it off!"
Click to expand...



Oddly, no.

Apparently he's as sequestured about the issue at school as he is at home.

But my guess he's just oblivious.


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> made up of the AP, Director of HR, and two teachers (English and Science), went OK yesterday, I think.
> 
> I explained my complaint, in detail, and stated that I was surprised that what I considered a fairly simple request had required so much administrative attention, and somewhat under his breath, the HR Director agreed.
> 
> The next step is to receive the recommendation of the committee. If I don't like it, then I go to the Superintendent, then the School Board.
> 
> Should be interesting.



At this meeting, if they had served octopus sashimi, would it have knocked you off your game?






How about if one of the female teachers was trying to eat a slice of the  sashimi with chopsticks, and the piece slipped and accidentally fell  down into her cleavage?  And since it was cold and slippery, she giggled  and writhed about as the meat slid down her belly to her panties?


----------



## ConHog

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Besides receiving a graded paper each week, what would you consider a good endpoint?
> 
> A teacher being fired?  The principle being fired?  You child being expelled?  You being told that under no circumstances would you be allowed on school property or you would be arrested?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I told the committee that I had no idea about the teacher's qualifications to do herjob within the many, many dimensions that I had not, and could not observe, but that I assumed that they were all excellent.
> 
> I believe the Principal has been a typical Bureaucrat: #1. CYA.
> 
> I think he ADVISED the teachers, and this one didn't understand, or receive, or comly with the message, and now he's letting her swing.
> 
> Since I've only entered the school because I've been invited, I wouldn't really be effected by a ban from the premises.
> 
> *They cannot expel ANY student without overwhelming cause. The older slave hasn't broken any rule*.
Click to expand...


Incorrect, a child can be expelled from a public school if there is cause to believe that a parent presents a danger if the child continues to attend that school. I've voted to make it happen. I would in your case.


----------



## ConHog

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I told the committee that I had no idea about the teacher's qualifications to do herjob within the many, many dimensions that I had not, and could not observe, but that I assumed that they were all excellent.
> 
> I believe the Principal has been a typical Bureaucrat: #1. CYA.
> 
> I think he ADVISED the teachers, and this one didn't understand, or receive, or comly with the message, and now he's letting her swing.
> 
> Since I've only entered the school because I've been invited, I wouldn't really be effected by a ban from the premises.
> 
> They cannot expel ANY student without overwhelming cause. The older slave hasn't broken any rule.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Has the older slave said "DAAaaAAd!  Like...knock it off!"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oddly, no.
> 
> Apparently he's as sequestured about the issue at school as he is at home.
> 
> But my guess he's just oblivious.
Click to expand...


So we were correct when we all pointed out that your child is apathetic and your answer is to harass teachers rather than actually be a parent and motivate your lazy son.....


----------



## xotoxi

ConHog said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Besides receiving a graded paper each week, what would you consider a good endpoint?
> 
> A teacher being fired?  The principle being fired?  You child being expelled?  You being told that under no circumstances would you be allowed on school property or you would be arrested?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I told the committee that I had no idea about the teacher's qualifications to do herjob within the many, many dimensions that I had not, and could not observe, but that I assumed that they were all excellent.
> 
> I believe the Principal has been a typical Bureaucrat: #1. CYA.
> 
> I think he ADVISED the teachers, and this one didn't understand, or receive, or comly with the message, and now he's letting her swing.
> 
> Since I've only entered the school because I've been invited, I wouldn't really be effected by a ban from the premises.
> 
> *They cannot expel ANY student without overwhelming cause. The older slave hasn't broken any rule*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Incorrect, a child can be expelled from a public school if there is cause to believe that a parent presents a danger if the child continues to attend that school. I've voted to make it happen. I would in your case.
Click to expand...


If I ran a school board, I would expel one student at random (picked out of a hat) each year...just to keep the little motherfuckers on their toes!

BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU


----------



## Samson

ConHog said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Besides receiving a graded paper each week, what would you consider a good endpoint?
> 
> A teacher being fired?  The principle being fired?  You child being expelled?  You being told that under no circumstances would you be allowed on school property or you would be arrested?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I told the committee that I had no idea about the teacher's qualifications to do herjob within the many, many dimensions that I had not, and could not observe, but that I assumed that they were all excellent.
> 
> I believe the Principal has been a typical Bureaucrat: #1. CYA.
> 
> I think he ADVISED the teachers, and this one didn't understand, or receive, or comly with the message, and now he's letting her swing.
> 
> Since I've only entered the school because I've been invited, I wouldn't really be effected by a ban from the premises.
> 
> *They cannot expel ANY student without overwhelming cause. The older slave hasn't broken any rule*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Incorrect, a child can be expelled from a public school if there is cause to believe that a parent presents a danger if the child continues to attend that school. I've voted to make it happen. I would in your case.
Click to expand...


Then again, you're an idiot.


----------



## ConHog

Samson said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I told the committee that I had no idea about the teacher's qualifications to do herjob within the many, many dimensions that I had not, and could not observe, but that I assumed that they were all excellent.
> 
> I believe the Principal has been a typical Bureaucrat: #1. CYA.
> 
> I think he ADVISED the teachers, and this one didn't understand, or receive, or comly with the message, and now he's letting her swing.
> 
> Since I've only entered the school because I've been invited, I wouldn't really be effected by a ban from the premises.
> 
> *They cannot expel ANY student without overwhelming cause. The older slave hasn't broken any rule*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect, a child can be expelled from a public school if there is cause to believe that a parent presents a danger if the child continues to attend that school. I've voted to make it happen. I would in your case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then again, you're an idiot.
Click to expand...


I'm an idiot? My son graduated HS last year with a 4.0 you can't even get yours to bring home graded papers ( I suspect b/c they are all Fs and he doesn't want to show you, so he throws them away) I wouldn't go tossing out the term idiot

And your childish attack aside, what you wrote is wrong. A child CAN be expelled from a public school because of the actions of their parent(s)


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I told the committee that I had no idea about the teacher's qualifications to do herjob within the many, many dimensions that I had not, and could not observe, but that I assumed that they were all excellent.
> 
> I believe the Principal has been a typical Bureaucrat: #1. CYA.
> 
> I think he ADVISED the teachers, and this one didn't understand, or receive, or comly with the message, and now he's letting her swing.
> 
> Since I've only entered the school because I've been invited, I wouldn't really be effected by a ban from the premises.
> 
> *They cannot expel ANY student without overwhelming cause. The older slave hasn't broken any rule*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect, a child can be expelled from a public school if there is cause to believe that a parent presents a danger if the child continues to attend that school. I've voted to make it happen. I would in your case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If I ran a school board, I would expel one student at random (picked out of a hat) each year...just to keep the little motherfuckers on their toes!
> 
> BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU
Click to expand...


I'm convinced that Asian Parents pick one kid at random and behead them as an example to the other kids of not getting straight A's, playing violin in the Philharmonic Orchestra by age 11, and winning every state spelling bee.


----------



## ConHog

xotoxi said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I told the committee that I had no idea about the teacher's qualifications to do herjob within the many, many dimensions that I had not, and could not observe, but that I assumed that they were all excellent.
> 
> I believe the Principal has been a typical Bureaucrat: #1. CYA.
> 
> I think he ADVISED the teachers, and this one didn't understand, or receive, or comly with the message, and now he's letting her swing.
> 
> Since I've only entered the school because I've been invited, I wouldn't really be effected by a ban from the premises.
> 
> *They cannot expel ANY student without overwhelming cause. The older slave hasn't broken any rule*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect, a child can be expelled from a public school if there is cause to believe that a parent presents a danger if the child continues to attend that school. I've voted to make it happen. I would in your case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If I ran a school board, I would expel one student at random (picked out of a hat) each year...just to keep the little motherfuckers on their toes!
> 
> BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU
Click to expand...


A school has an obligation to protect its employees, wouldn't you agree?


----------



## Samson

ConHog said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect, a child can be expelled from a public school if there is cause to believe that a parent presents a danger if the child continues to attend that school. I've voted to make it happen. I would in your case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then again, you're an idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm an idiot? My son graduated HS last year with a 4.0 you can't even get yours to bring home graded papers ( I suspect b/c they are all Fs and he doesn't want to show you, so he throws them away) I wouldn't go tossing out the term idiot
> 
> And your childish attack aside, what you wrote is wrong. A child CAN be expelled from a public school because of the actions of their parent(s)
Click to expand...


Yes, you are an idiot.

I've followed the district's complaint policy to the letter, and that's the content of this thread.


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect, a child can be expelled from a public school if there is cause to believe that a parent presents a danger if the child continues to attend that school. I've voted to make it happen. I would in your case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I ran a school board, I would expel one student at random (picked out of a hat) each year...just to keep the little motherfuckers on their toes!
> 
> BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm convinced that Asian Parents pick one kid at random and behead them as an example to the other kids of not getting straight A's, playing violin in the Philharmonic Orchestra by age 11, and winning every state spelling bee.
Click to expand...


That's an excellent idea!

But there would be intense outrage if muslim parents were doing this.


----------



## xotoxi

ConHog said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect, a child can be expelled from a public school if there is cause to believe that a parent presents a danger if the child continues to attend that school. I've voted to make it happen. I would in your case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I ran a school board, I would expel one student at random (picked out of a hat) each year...just to keep the little motherfuckers on their toes!
> 
> BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A school has an obligation to protect its employees, wouldn't you agree?
Click to expand...


Yes.  

With guns.


----------



## ConHog

Samson said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then again, you're an idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm an idiot? My son graduated HS last year with a 4.0 you can't even get yours to bring home graded papers ( I suspect b/c they are all Fs and he doesn't want to show you, so he throws them away) I wouldn't go tossing out the term idiot
> 
> And your childish attack aside, what you wrote is wrong. A child CAN be expelled from a public school because of the actions of their parent(s)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, you are an idiot.
> 
> I've followed the district's complaint policy to the letter, and that's the content of this thread.
Click to expand...


No the content of this thread is that you're a whiny bitch who won't tell his kid to get off his ass and pick his grades up, instead preferring to whine about teachers not sending papers home once a week.

If I were your child's teacher I'd take one of his F papers and staple it to his fucking shirt and DEMAND that it be returned to me signed so I was sure you had seen it.


----------



## Modbert

ConHog said:


> No the content of this thread is that you're a whiny bitch who won't tell his kid to get off his ass and pick his grades up, instead preferring to whine about teachers not sending papers home once a week.
> 
> If I were your child's teacher I'd take one of his F papers and staple it to his fucking shirt and DEMAND that it be returned to me signed so I was sure you had seen it.



So you would manhandle a child, traumatizing him in the process, just in order to try and prove a point to the parent because you have a grudge against said parent. And *YOU* are on a school board?

_Jeez_


----------



## ConHog

Modbert said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> No the content of this thread is that you're a whiny bitch who won't tell his kid to get off his ass and pick his grades up, instead preferring to whine about teachers not sending papers home once a week.
> 
> If I were your child's teacher I'd take one of his F papers and staple it to his fucking shirt and DEMAND that it be returned to me signed so I was sure you had seen it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you would manhandle a child, traumatizing him in the process, just in order to try and prove a point to the parent because you have a grudge against said parent. And *YOU* are on a school board?
> 
> _Jeez_
Click to expand...


Jesus Christ, at least pretend you have a sense of humor. Of course I wouldn't REALLY do that. Oh wait, you actually knew that, but you're dog shit so..............


----------



## Modbert

ConHog said:


> Jesus Christ, at least pretend you have a sense of humor. Of course I wouldn't REALLY do that. Oh wait, you actually knew that, but you're dog shit so..............



Didn't sound like you were joking, just sayin.


----------



## ConHog

Modbert said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus Christ, at least pretend you have a sense of humor. Of course I wouldn't REALLY do that. Oh wait, you actually knew that, but you're dog shit so..............
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't sound like you were joking, just sayin.
Click to expand...


Give me a break, I have no doubt that it never entered your mind that I would actually do that. However, I apologize to the hypothetical child I traumatized.


----------



## Samson

ConHog said:


> If I were your child's teacher I'd take one of his F papers and staple it to his fucking shirt and DEMAND that it be returned to me signed so I was sure you had seen it.



Well, that would be great.

Apparently that level of concern isn't acheivable among all his teachers: thus the complaint.


----------



## ConHog

Samson said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I were your child's teacher I'd take one of his F papers and staple it to his fucking shirt and DEMAND that it be returned to me signed so I was sure you had seen it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that would be great.
> 
> Apparently that level of concern isn't acheivable among all his teachers: thus the complaint.
Click to expand...


You've admitted your child isn't concerned, so why should a teacher be? Limited resources need to be spent on children who give a shit.


----------



## kwc57

ConHog said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm an idiot? My son graduated HS last year with a 4.0 you can't even get yours to bring home graded papers ( I suspect b/c they are all Fs and he doesn't want to show you, so he throws them away) I wouldn't go tossing out the term idiot
> 
> And your childish attack aside, what you wrote is wrong. A child CAN be expelled from a public school because of the actions of their parent(s)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you are an idiot.
> 
> I've followed the district's complaint policy to the letter, and that's the content of this thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No the content of this thread is that you're a whiny bitch who won't tell his kid to get off his ass and pick his grades up, instead preferring to whine about teachers not sending papers home once a week.
> 
> If I were your child's teacher I'd take one of his F papers and staple it to his fucking shirt and DEMAND that it be returned to me signed so I was sure you had seen it.
Click to expand...


Yes, but then you are an ignorant fuck.


----------



## Samson

ConHog said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I were your child's teacher I'd take one of his F papers and staple it to his fucking shirt and DEMAND that it be returned to me signed so I was sure you had seen it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that would be great.
> 
> Apparently that level of concern isn't acheivable among all his teachers: thus the complaint.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You've admitted your child isn't concerned, so why should a teacher be? Limited resources need to be spent on children who give a shit.
Click to expand...


Um no.

Teachers in public schools are hired to teach ALL the kids, not only the ones that are "concerned."

Jaysus Christ you really are fucking clueless.


----------



## Annie

ConHog said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect, a child can be expelled from a public school if there is cause to believe that a parent presents a danger if the child continues to attend that school. I've voted to make it happen. I would in your case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then again, you're an idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm an idiot? My son graduated HS last year with a 4.0 you can't even get yours to bring home graded papers ( I suspect b/c they are all Fs and he doesn't want to show you, so he throws them away) I wouldn't go tossing out the term idiot
> 
> And your childish attack aside, what you wrote is wrong. A child CAN be expelled from a public school because of the actions of their parent(s)
Click to expand...


Whether or not one agrees with Samson's premise, he's followed the rules of making a complaint at the school. That's certainly not childish or harassing in any way. You on the other hand, admit to persecuting children for parents behavior-that is childish. Using your child's supposed achievements as evidence of your own is just faulty logic.


----------



## Annie

Modbert said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> No the content of this thread is that you're a whiny bitch who won't tell his kid to get off his ass and pick his grades up, instead preferring to whine about teachers not sending papers home once a week.
> 
> If I were your child's teacher I'd take one of his F papers and staple it to his fucking shirt and DEMAND that it be returned to me signed so I was sure you had seen it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you would manhandle a child, traumatizing him in the process, just in order to try and prove a point to the parent because you have a grudge against said parent. And *YOU* are on a school board?
> 
> _Jeez_
Click to expand...


AND that would be after he was expelled because of the perception of the parents behavior.


----------



## Modbert

Annie said:


> Using your child's supposed achievements as evidence of your own is just faulty logic.



While also attacking the children of others based on assumptions with no real evidence on the internet. Classy, eh?


----------



## kwc57

Modbert said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Using your child's supposed achievements as evidence of your own is just faulty logic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While also attacking the children of others based on assumptions with no real evidence on the internet. Classy, eh?
Click to expand...


What do you expect from cornhole the magnificent liar?


----------



## ConHog

RIP Samson


----------



## Samson

committee.

I'll keep you all updated.


----------



## Ravi

Leave your weapons at home.


----------



## ConHog

Ravi said:


> Leave your weapons at home.



I thought he'd already ignored that advice.


----------



## Samson

ConHog said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Leave your weapons at home.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought he'd already ignored that advice.
Click to expand...


Not the first idiotic thought you've had.


----------



## Gadawg73

I just graduated my 2nd from college last Friday. My 3rd just got accepted to The University of Georgia where my youngest son graduated last May at age 20.
All 3 did very well academically, in other activities and one in sports also.
In local public schools. All 3 scored very high on all standardized tests. One extremely high and was a National Merit Scholar. 
Yes, we saw a few lazy teachers but confrontation never works. Making the best out of all situations is the route to take.
Parents that expect a perfect situation for Junior and Missy do not live in the real world. In most areas, let the kids figure it out. Towering over them like a hawk about everything will only inhibit their independence and ability to be a self starter later in life. We see this all the time and how the kids fall apart when they leave for college and parents have NO say, PERIOD. 
Stay the hell out of the way is the best route most of the time. If you do not like the rules that is your right so move.
If it is as bad as some say then why the hell stay in that school? Move, change schools.


----------



## Samson

Gadawg73 said:


> I just graduated my 2nd from college last Friday. My 3rd just got accepted to The University of Georgia where my youngest son graduated last May at age 20.
> All 3 did very well academically, in other activities and one in sports also.
> In local public schools. All 3 scored very high on all standardized tests. One extremely high and was a National Merit Scholar.
> Yes, we saw a few lazy teachers but confrontation never works. Making the best out of all situations is the route to take.
> Parents that expect a perfect situation for Junior and Missy do not live in the real world. In most areas, let the kids figure it out. Towering over them like a hawk about everything will only inhibit their independence and ability to be a self starter later in life. We see this all the time and how the kids fall apart when they leave for college and parents have NO say, PERIOD.
> Stay the hell out of the way is the best route most of the time. If you do not like the rules that is your right so move.
> If it is as bad as some say then why the hell stay in that school? Move, change schools.



Well, certainly moving, and/or changing schools are alternatives.

But I think its just a tad easier to give the district a chance to have teachers grade papers.


----------



## Gadawg73

My kids always had an "Agenda" book that had all of the requirements of each course, what the course would teach and what they would be tested on. The agenda had a time line of what would be taught when. I do not remember individual tests being sent out all the time but I do remember if one of my kids received a low mark on a test we always knew what area they were tested on and would make sure they went over that area for the midterm and/or final.
If they are not providing you with an agenda and/or course guideline at the first of each semester/quarter for each course and what will be covered, when it will be covered and when the tests are given on that particular area of course work then that is a real problem. 
The agenda keeps the student on task and makes them accountable for their own actions. If they do not do well on any test THEY know it and have no excuses.


----------



## Annie

Gadawg73 said:


> My kids always had an "Agenda" book that had all of the requirements of each course, what the course would teach and what they would be tested on. The agenda had a time line of what would be taught when. I do not remember individual tests being sent out all the time but I do remember if one of my kids received a low mark on a test we always knew what area they were tested on and would make sure they went over that area for the midterm and/or final.
> If they are not providing you with an agenda and/or course guideline at the first of each semester/quarter for each course and what will be covered, when it will be covered and when the tests are given on that particular area of course work then that is a real problem.
> The agenda keeps the student on task and makes them accountable for their own actions. If they do not do well on any test THEY know it and have no excuses.



Actually what you are describing is what I've used in all my classes for the past 8 years. The students, (middle school), needed to have a spiral notebook, and pocket folder color coordinated for each of my classes. Into the notebook were all notes,  , diagrams, graphic organizers, etc. Following each lesson would be their homework, including page and problem numbers, corrections in contrasting colors along with additional information, also contrasting color, given during corrections and discussions. At the end of each section in preparing for testing would be a review to be completed in notebook and an optional online quiz that could be repeated and was graded each time immediately. Both the hand out review and online review covered all material on the test-though questions were different.

In history classes the average student went through 3 notebooks per year. 

While I collected homework grades occasionally, the big 'homework grade' was the notebook. If all assignments had been corrected, if dates and page numbers for reading and assignments had been used, if contrasting colors had been used, they'd get an A on notebook. The only reason that I'd collect homework grades, (once or twice a week), was to ensure they were doing their homework to the best of their ability. My major concern was that they understood what was wrong and why. I wanted them to develop better note taking skills, to prepare for tests, both imminent and long term. 

Seriously, I had at least 40 high school/college students return and thank me. Some wrote letters about how I'd helped them prepare for higher learning-ahead of their classmates. Yeah, those letters are part of my portfolio.


----------



## ConHog

Annie said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My kids always had an "Agenda" book that had all of the requirements of each course, what the course would teach and what they would be tested on. The agenda had a time line of what would be taught when. I do not remember individual tests being sent out all the time but I do remember if one of my kids received a low mark on a test we always knew what area they were tested on and would make sure they went over that area for the midterm and/or final.
> If they are not providing you with an agenda and/or course guideline at the first of each semester/quarter for each course and what will be covered, when it will be covered and when the tests are given on that particular area of course work then that is a real problem.
> The agenda keeps the student on task and makes them accountable for their own actions. If they do not do well on any test THEY know it and have no excuses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually what you are describing is what I've used in all my classes for the past 8 years. The students, (middle school), needed to have a spiral notebook, and pocket folder color coordinated for each of my classes. Into the notebook were all notes,  , diagrams, graphic organizers, etc. Following each lesson would be their homework, including page and problem numbers, corrections in contrasting colors along with additional information, also contrasting color, given during corrections and discussions. At the end of each section in preparing for testing would be a review to be completed in notebook and an optional online quiz that could be repeated and was graded each time immediately. Both the hand out review and online review covered all material on the test-though questions were different.
> 
> In history classes the average student went through 3 notebooks per year.
> 
> While I collected homework grades occasionally, the big 'homework grade' was the notebook. If all assignments had been corrected, if dates and page numbers for reading and assignments had been used, if contrasting colors had been used, they'd get an A on notebook. The only reason that I'd collect homework grades, (once or twice a week), was to ensure they were doing their homework to the best of their ability. My major concern was that they understood what was wrong and why. I wanted them to develop better note taking skills, to prepare for tests, both imminent and long term.
> 
> Seriously, I had at least 40 high school/college students return and thank me. Some wrote letters about how I'd helped them prepare for higher learning-ahead of their classmates. Yeah, those letters are part of my portfolio.
Click to expand...


You sound like an excellent and very detail oriented teacher. Wish there were more like you . 

From the 9th grade on, we require all teachers to provide a syllabus at the beginning of each school year detailing the expected timeline and homework and test dates for each course to both the students and the administrators. strangely the only complaints we've received are over the rare occasions when a class is behind schedule, which does happen.

We leave it up to individual teachers to how they want to handle note taking and such.


----------



## kwc57

Annie said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My kids always had an "Agenda" book that had all of the requirements of each course, what the course would teach and what they would be tested on. The agenda had a time line of what would be taught when. I do not remember individual tests being sent out all the time but I do remember if one of my kids received a low mark on a test we always knew what area they were tested on and would make sure they went over that area for the midterm and/or final.
> If they are not providing you with an agenda and/or course guideline at the first of each semester/quarter for each course and what will be covered, when it will be covered and when the tests are given on that particular area of course work then that is a real problem.
> The agenda keeps the student on task and makes them accountable for their own actions. If they do not do well on any test THEY know it and have no excuses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually what you are describing is what I've used in all my classes for the past 8 years. The students, (middle school), needed to have a spiral notebook, and pocket folder color coordinated for each of my classes. Into the notebook were all notes,  , diagrams, graphic organizers, etc. Following each lesson would be their homework, including page and problem numbers, corrections in contrasting colors along with additional information, also contrasting color, given during corrections and discussions. At the end of each section in preparing for testing would be a review to be completed in notebook and an optional online quiz that could be repeated and was graded each time immediately. Both the hand out review and online review covered all material on the test-though questions were different.
> 
> In history classes the average student went through 3 notebooks per year.
> 
> While I collected homework grades occasionally, the big 'homework grade' was the notebook. If all assignments had been corrected, if dates and page numbers for reading and assignments had been used, if contrasting colors had been used, they'd get an A on notebook. The only reason that I'd collect homework grades, (once or twice a week), was to ensure they were doing their homework to the best of their ability. My major concern was that they understood what was wrong and why. I wanted them to develop better note taking skills, to prepare for tests, both imminent and long term.
> 
> Seriously, I had at least 40 high school/college students return and thank me. Some wrote letters about how I'd helped them prepare for higher learning-ahead of their classmates. Yeah, those letters are part of my portfolio.
Click to expand...


My son is a senior this year and what you describe is pretty much what they do here from 7th thru 12th grade.  The only issue, the teachers do not allow the sacred notebooks to ever leave the confines of the classroom until the end of the school year.  The teacher can see how the student is doing, but all mom and dad gets thru an online service is a number grade like 92.5 with a description like "unit 7 quiz".  If the student makes good grades, the parents are actually discouraged from scheduling a conference during the parent/teacher conference dates.  You can schedule one if you want, but they would prefer you not.


----------



## Gadawg73

ConHog said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My kids always had an "Agenda" book that had all of the requirements of each course, what the course would teach and what they would be tested on. The agenda had a time line of what would be taught when. I do not remember individual tests being sent out all the time but I do remember if one of my kids received a low mark on a test we always knew what area they were tested on and would make sure they went over that area for the midterm and/or final.
> If they are not providing you with an agenda and/or course guideline at the first of each semester/quarter for each course and what will be covered, when it will be covered and when the tests are given on that particular area of course work then that is a real problem.
> The agenda keeps the student on task and makes them accountable for their own actions. If they do not do well on any test THEY know it and have no excuses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually what you are describing is what I've used in all my classes for the past 8 years. The students, (middle school), needed to have a spiral notebook, and pocket folder color coordinated for each of my classes. Into the notebook were all notes,  , diagrams, graphic organizers, etc. Following each lesson would be their homework, including page and problem numbers, corrections in contrasting colors along with additional information, also contrasting color, given during corrections and discussions. At the end of each section in preparing for testing would be a review to be completed in notebook and an optional online quiz that could be repeated and was graded each time immediately. Both the hand out review and online review covered all material on the test-though questions were different.
> 
> In history classes the average student went through 3 notebooks per year.
> 
> While I collected homework grades occasionally, the big 'homework grade' was the notebook. If all assignments had been corrected, if dates and page numbers for reading and assignments had been used, if contrasting colors had been used, they'd get an A on notebook. The only reason that I'd collect homework grades, (once or twice a week), was to ensure they were doing their homework to the best of their ability. My major concern was that they understood what was wrong and why. I wanted them to develop better note taking skills, to prepare for tests, both imminent and long term.
> 
> Seriously, I had at least 40 high school/college students return and thank me. Some wrote letters about how I'd helped them prepare for higher learning-ahead of their classmates. Yeah, those letters are part of my portfolio.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You sound like an excellent and very detail oriented teacher. Wish there were more like you .
> 
> From the 9th grade on, we require all teachers to provide a syllabus at the beginning of each school year detailing the expected timeline and homework and test dates for each course to both the students and the administrators. strangely the only complaints we've received are over the rare occasions when a class is behind schedule, which does happen.
> 
> We leave it up to individual teachers to how they want to handle note taking and such.
Click to expand...


We liked that format and applaud both of you for also utilizing it. Accountability of the student goes a long way. The timeline of course work informs the parents.
My oldest moaned and groaned about it in middle school. All he ever wanted to do was play football. Yes, the wife blamed me!


----------



## Annie

ConHog said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My kids always had an "Agenda" book that had all of the requirements of each course, what the course would teach and what they would be tested on. The agenda had a time line of what would be taught when. I do not remember individual tests being sent out all the time but I do remember if one of my kids received a low mark on a test we always knew what area they were tested on and would make sure they went over that area for the midterm and/or final.
> If they are not providing you with an agenda and/or course guideline at the first of each semester/quarter for each course and what will be covered, when it will be covered and when the tests are given on that particular area of course work then that is a real problem.
> The agenda keeps the student on task and makes them accountable for their own actions. If they do not do well on any test THEY know it and have no excuses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually what you are describing is what I've used in all my classes for the past 8 years. The students, (middle school), needed to have a spiral notebook, and pocket folder color coordinated for each of my classes. Into the notebook were all notes,  , diagrams, graphic organizers, etc. Following each lesson would be their homework, including page and problem numbers, corrections in contrasting colors along with additional information, also contrasting color, given during corrections and discussions. At the end of each section in preparing for testing would be a review to be completed in notebook and an optional online quiz that could be repeated and was graded each time immediately. Both the hand out review and online review covered all material on the test-though questions were different.
> 
> In history classes the average student went through 3 notebooks per year.
> 
> While I collected homework grades occasionally, the big 'homework grade' was the notebook. If all assignments had been corrected, if dates and page numbers for reading and assignments had been used, if contrasting colors had been used, they'd get an A on notebook. The only reason that I'd collect homework grades, (once or twice a week), was to ensure they were doing their homework to the best of their ability. My major concern was that they understood what was wrong and why. I wanted them to develop better note taking skills, to prepare for tests, both imminent and long term.
> 
> Seriously, I had at least 40 high school/college students return and thank me. Some wrote letters about how I'd helped them prepare for higher learning-ahead of their classmates. Yeah, those letters are part of my portfolio.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You sound like an excellent and very detail oriented teacher. Wish there were more like you .
> 
> From the 9th grade on, we require all teachers to provide a syllabus at the beginning of each school year detailing the expected timeline and homework and test dates for each course to both the students and the administrators. strangely the only complaints we've received are over the rare occasions when a class is behind schedule, which does happen.
> 
> We leave it up to individual teachers to how they want to handle note taking and such.
Click to expand...


I'll say that I took Samson's initial posting as asking for more than this, upon reflection I think this is what he was looking for, perhaps even beyond what he was looking for. 

Yet you seem to deride his queries for this type of information. What is it the child is doing in class? 'Well, let's look at the notebook...' 

My concern as primarily a social studies teacher was the fact that 'big grades' are few and far between. Perhaps 5 or 6 in a trimester, give or take. However, the bulk of my grades were in homework and participation, if those were at A level, even if 'big' grades were toast, the child would pass. If better than 'toast', say a C level, they'd get a C+ or B. 'Big' grades being tests, reports, special projects.


----------



## Annie

kwc57 said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My kids always had an "Agenda" book that had all of the requirements of each course, what the course would teach and what they would be tested on. The agenda had a time line of what would be taught when. I do not remember individual tests being sent out all the time but I do remember if one of my kids received a low mark on a test we always knew what area they were tested on and would make sure they went over that area for the midterm and/or final.
> If they are not providing you with an agenda and/or course guideline at the first of each semester/quarter for each course and what will be covered, when it will be covered and when the tests are given on that particular area of course work then that is a real problem.
> The agenda keeps the student on task and makes them accountable for their own actions. If they do not do well on any test THEY know it and have no excuses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually what you are describing is what I've used in all my classes for the past 8 years. The students, (middle school), needed to have a spiral notebook, and pocket folder color coordinated for each of my classes. Into the notebook were all notes,  , diagrams, graphic organizers, etc. Following each lesson would be their homework, including page and problem numbers, corrections in contrasting colors along with additional information, also contrasting color, given during corrections and discussions. At the end of each section in preparing for testing would be a review to be completed in notebook and an optional online quiz that could be repeated and was graded each time immediately. Both the hand out review and online review covered all material on the test-though questions were different.
> 
> In history classes the average student went through 3 notebooks per year.
> 
> While I collected homework grades occasionally, the big 'homework grade' was the notebook. If all assignments had been corrected, if dates and page numbers for reading and assignments had been used, if contrasting colors had been used, they'd get an A on notebook. The only reason that I'd collect homework grades, (once or twice a week), was to ensure they were doing their homework to the best of their ability. My major concern was that they understood what was wrong and why. I wanted them to develop better note taking skills, to prepare for tests, both imminent and long term.
> 
> Seriously, I had at least 40 high school/college students return and thank me. Some wrote letters about how I'd helped them prepare for higher learning-ahead of their classmates. Yeah, those letters are part of my portfolio.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My son is a senior this year and what you describe is pretty much what they do here from 7th thru 12th grade.  The only issue, the teachers do not allow the sacred notebooks to ever leave the confines of the classroom until the end of the school year.  The teacher can see how the student is doing, but all mom and dad gets thru an online service is a number grade like 92.5 with a description like "unit 7 quiz".  If the student makes good grades, the parents are actually discouraged from scheduling a conference during the parent/teacher conference dates.  You can schedule one if you want, but they would prefer you not.
Click to expand...

To me that would be wrong. The kids need to have their notebooks and handouts to study for tests and do their homework. 6th grade I went through their notebooks about every 3/4 weeks. 7th grade, about every 6/8 weeks. 8th grade just once per trimester. It's a process, not an end point. 

If done correctly, which is rated by notebook grade, all they need to know is in their notebook and folder. Their weak points are in contrasting colors, thus for mid-terms, finals, they know where to focus their studies.


----------



## kwc57

Annie said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually what you are describing is what I've used in all my classes for the past 8 years. The students, (middle school), needed to have a spiral notebook, and pocket folder color coordinated for each of my classes. Into the notebook were all notes,  , diagrams, graphic organizers, etc. Following each lesson would be their homework, including page and problem numbers, corrections in contrasting colors along with additional information, also contrasting color, given during corrections and discussions. At the end of each section in preparing for testing would be a review to be completed in notebook and an optional online quiz that could be repeated and was graded each time immediately. Both the hand out review and online review covered all material on the test-though questions were different.
> 
> In history classes the average student went through 3 notebooks per year.
> 
> While I collected homework grades occasionally, the big 'homework grade' was the notebook. If all assignments had been corrected, if dates and page numbers for reading and assignments had been used, if contrasting colors had been used, they'd get an A on notebook. The only reason that I'd collect homework grades, (once or twice a week), was to ensure they were doing their homework to the best of their ability. My major concern was that they understood what was wrong and why. I wanted them to develop better note taking skills, to prepare for tests, both imminent and long term.
> 
> Seriously, I had at least 40 high school/college students return and thank me. Some wrote letters about how I'd helped them prepare for higher learning-ahead of their classmates. Yeah, those letters are part of my portfolio.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My son is a senior this year and what you describe is pretty much what they do here from 7th thru 12th grade.  The only issue, the teachers do not allow the sacred notebooks to ever leave the confines of the classroom until the end of the school year.  The teacher can see how the student is doing, but all mom and dad gets thru an online service is a number grade like 92.5 with a description like "unit 7 quiz".  If the student makes good grades, the parents are actually discouraged from scheduling a conference during the parent/teacher conference dates.  You can schedule one if you want, but they would prefer you not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To me that would be wrong. The kids need to have their notebooks and handouts to study for tests and do their homework. 6th grade I went through their notebooks about every 3/4 weeks. 7th grade, about every 6/8 weeks. 8th grade just once per trimester. It's a process, not an end point.
> 
> If done correctly, which is rated by notebook grade, all they need to know is in their notebook and folder. Their weak points are in contrasting colors, thus for mid-terms, finals, they know where to focus their studies.
Click to expand...


So you can understand Samson's frustration that his school system won't allow a parent to see their child's work and just wants them to accept a grade with no context?


----------



## ConHog

kwc57 said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My kids always had an "Agenda" book that had all of the requirements of each course, what the course would teach and what they would be tested on. The agenda had a time line of what would be taught when. I do not remember individual tests being sent out all the time but I do remember if one of my kids received a low mark on a test we always knew what area they were tested on and would make sure they went over that area for the midterm and/or final.
> If they are not providing you with an agenda and/or course guideline at the first of each semester/quarter for each course and what will be covered, when it will be covered and when the tests are given on that particular area of course work then that is a real problem.
> The agenda keeps the student on task and makes them accountable for their own actions. If they do not do well on any test THEY know it and have no excuses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually what you are describing is what I've used in all my classes for the past 8 years. The students, (middle school), needed to have a spiral notebook, and pocket folder color coordinated for each of my classes. Into the notebook were all notes,  , diagrams, graphic organizers, etc. Following each lesson would be their homework, including page and problem numbers, corrections in contrasting colors along with additional information, also contrasting color, given during corrections and discussions. At the end of each section in preparing for testing would be a review to be completed in notebook and an optional online quiz that could be repeated and was graded each time immediately. Both the hand out review and online review covered all material on the test-though questions were different.
> 
> In history classes the average student went through 3 notebooks per year.
> 
> While I collected homework grades occasionally, the big 'homework grade' was the notebook. If all assignments had been corrected, if dates and page numbers for reading and assignments had been used, if contrasting colors had been used, they'd get an A on notebook. The only reason that I'd collect homework grades, (once or twice a week), was to ensure they were doing their homework to the best of their ability. My major concern was that they understood what was wrong and why. I wanted them to develop better note taking skills, to prepare for tests, both imminent and long term.
> 
> Seriously, I had at least 40 high school/college students return and thank me. Some wrote letters about how I'd helped them prepare for higher learning-ahead of their classmates. Yeah, those letters are part of my portfolio.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My son is a senior this year and what you describe is pretty much what they do here from 7th thru 12th grade.  The only issue, the teachers do not allow the sacred notebooks to ever leave the confines of the classroom until the end of the school year.  The teacher can see how the student is doing, but all mom and dad gets thru an online service is a number grade like 92.5 with a description like "unit 7 quiz".  If the student makes good grades, the parents are actually discouraged from scheduling a conference during the parent/teacher conference dates.  You can schedule one if you want, but they would prefer you not.
Click to expand...


Because in 7 out of 10 cases, junior would lose the notebook and then parents would blame teachers for something they had no control over. Yes, once again irresponsible people cost everyone.


----------



## Samson

I've had a wide variety of "one graded paper/week/class."

I've had only one teacher grade a notebook and send it home every week.

No other teacher has been able to evaluating learning with anything approaching a systematic approach. It is really no great stretch of my imagination to believe that the average 16 year old hasn't the faintest clue how they are evaluated or what the expectations are to be successful in class.

Each teacher does submit a syllabus in the beginning of the year. The weighting of grades is detailed (usually daily grades are 40% and tests are 60%), but there is no timeline as to WHEN grades will be taken, or which type, or how often. Frankly, this is somewhat immaterial to me: am I supposed to recall that a quiz about linear equations, or photosynthesis, or The Battle of Lexington, or the theme of October Sky is going to be given tomorrow? Fuck No. That's the student's, not the parent's job.

MY only job is to get the graded work (notebook, test, lab, quiz, worksheet, warmup, etc., etc.), and reinforce/reward success or reinforce/punish failure. Research has revealed that this is effective only on a frequent basis, and only if the graded work is returned within 48 hours of the work being completed.


----------



## Annie

kwc57 said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My son is a senior this year and what you describe is pretty much what they do here from 7th thru 12th grade.  The only issue, the teachers do not allow the sacred notebooks to ever leave the confines of the classroom until the end of the school year.  The teacher can see how the student is doing, but all mom and dad gets thru an online service is a number grade like 92.5 with a description like "unit 7 quiz".  If the student makes good grades, the parents are actually discouraged from scheduling a conference during the parent/teacher conference dates.  You can schedule one if you want, but they would prefer you not.
> 
> 
> 
> To me that would be wrong. The kids need to have their notebooks and handouts to study for tests and do their homework. 6th grade I went through their notebooks about every 3/4 weeks. 7th grade, about every 6/8 weeks. 8th grade just once per trimester. It's a process, not an end point.
> 
> If done correctly, which is rated by notebook grade, all they need to know is in their notebook and folder. Their weak points are in contrasting colors, thus for mid-terms, finals, they know where to focus their studies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you can understand Samson's frustration that his school system won't allow a parent to see their child's work and just wants them to accept a grade with no context?
Click to expand...


If I understand his perspective, it seems that there is a lack of graded or results of what is going on weekly in class. He wants at least one 'graded' paper, my guess is he would be happy to know what is going on in class, including corrections, additions, discussions. My initial reaction was he was playing 'gotcha' with teachers, not going to be surprised if that is the reaction of board too. However, I'm guessing it's feedback he's looking for.


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> I've had a wide variety of "one graded paper/week/class."
> 
> I've had only one teacher grade a notebook and send it home every week.
> 
> No other teacher has been able to evaluating learning with anything approaching a systematic approach. It is really no great stretch of my imagination to believe that the average 16 year old hasn't the faintest clue how they are evaluated or what the expectations are to be successful in class.
> 
> Each teacher does submit a syllabus in the beginning of the year. The weighting of grades is detailed (usually daily grades are 40% and tests are 60%), but there is no timeline as to WHEN grades will be taken, or which type, or how often. Frankly, this is somewhat immaterial to me: am I supposed to recall that a quiz about linear equations, or photosynthesis, or The Battle of Lexington, or the theme of October Sky is going to be given tomorrow? Fuck No. That's the student's, not the parent's job.
> 
> MY only job is to get the graded work (notebook, test, lab, quiz, worksheet, warmup, etc., etc.), and reinforce/reward success or reinforce/punish failure. Research has revealed that this is effective only on a frequent basis, and only if the graded work is returned within 48 hours of the work being completed.



I agree. It's part of 'good practices.' All teachers should be adhering to a version of it.


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> To me that would be wrong. The kids need to have their notebooks and handouts to study for tests and do their homework. 6th grade I went through their notebooks about every 3/4 weeks. 7th grade, about every 6/8 weeks. 8th grade just once per trimester. It's a process, not an end point.
> 
> If done correctly, which is rated by notebook grade, all they need to know is in their notebook and folder. Their weak points are in contrasting colors, thus for mid-terms, finals, they know where to focus their studies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you can understand Samson's frustration that his school system won't allow a parent to see their child's work and just wants them to accept a grade with no context?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If I understand his perspective, it seems that there is a lack of graded or results of what is going on weekly in class. He wants at least one 'graded' paper, my guess is he would be happy to know what is going on in class, including corrections, additions, discussions. My initial reaction was he was playing 'gotcha' with teachers, not going to be surprised if that is the reaction of board too. However, I'm guessing it's feedback he's looking for.
Click to expand...


Apparently some teachers had the same impression that you do: That I want to have a copy of their lesson plan.

This is not what I want. I don't care what was discussed....UNLESS IT RESULTED in a graded evaluation that demonstrates that _SOMETHING_ was learned during the discussion. I'm not really looking for quality here, which makes the resistance to providing quantity even more astonishing. I had one teacher who was bold enough to put a grade on a paper that had nothing more on it that lines numbered 1-10!! Was the evaluation to see if the 16 year old could count to 10? Write the numbers in order? 

Who knows?

Did the teacher do what I wanted? Yes

Could the paper be used as evidence that the teacher is grading work that has nothing to do with American History?


----------



## Gadawg73

Samson said:


> I've had a wide variety of "one graded paper/week/class."
> 
> I've had only one teacher grade a notebook and send it home every week.
> 
> No other teacher has been able to evaluating learning with anything approaching a systematic approach. It is really no great stretch of my imagination to believe that the average 16 year old hasn't the faintest clue how they are evaluated or what the expectations are to be successful in class.
> 
> Each teacher does submit a syllabus in the beginning of the year. The weighting of grades is detailed (usually daily grades are 40% and tests are 60%), but there is no timeline as to WHEN grades will be taken, or which type, or how often. Frankly, this is somewhat immaterial to me: am I supposed to recall that a quiz about linear equations, or photosynthesis, or The Battle of Lexington, or the theme of October Sky is going to be given tomorrow? Fuck No. That's the student's, not the parent's job.
> 
> MY only job is to get the graded work (notebook, test, lab, quiz, worksheet, warmup, etc., etc.), and reinforce/reward success or reinforce/punish failure. Research has revealed that this is effective only on a frequent basis, and only if the graded work is returned within 48 hours of the work being completed.



If you believe it is the student's job then what is your bitch? 
We never reward or punish our kid's work. We were out of that equation. 
Accountability of a 16 year old is THEY accept what they get.


----------



## Samson

Gadawg73 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've had a wide variety of "one graded paper/week/class."
> 
> I've had only one teacher grade a notebook and send it home every week.
> 
> No other teacher has been able to evaluating learning with anything approaching a systematic approach. It is really no great stretch of my imagination to believe that the average 16 year old hasn't the faintest clue how they are evaluated or what the expectations are to be successful in class.
> 
> Each teacher does submit a syllabus in the beginning of the year. The weighting of grades is detailed (usually daily grades are 40% and tests are 60%), but there is no timeline as to WHEN grades will be taken, or which type, or how often. Frankly, this is somewhat immaterial to me: am I supposed to recall that a quiz about linear equations, or photosynthesis, or The Battle of Lexington, or the theme of October Sky is going to be given tomorrow? Fuck No. That's the student's, not the parent's job.
> 
> MY only job is to get the graded work (notebook, test, lab, quiz, worksheet, warmup, etc., etc.), and reinforce/reward success or reinforce/punish failure. Research has revealed that this is effective only on a frequent basis, and only if the graded work is returned within 48 hours of the work being completed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you believe it is the student's job then what is your bitch?
> We never reward or punish our kid's work. We were out of that equation.
> Accountability of a 16 year old is THEY accept what they get.
Click to expand...


You're beginning to strike me as one of the reading impaired.

Start reading the fucking post and get a clue: I'll walk your retard-ass through this _ONCE_:

1. It's the student's job to know WTF they'll be graded on

2. It's My job to reinforce good grades, or punish bad grades

If you didn't participate in the accountability of YOUR 16 year old, then good for you: BRAVO. My parents never had to participate either, but guess what?? Maybe it's a fuckin' revelation to you, but everyone is not you!!



Jeeze, I'd encourage you to imagine that, but I'm not sure you have the two braincells necessary to rub together to make it happen.


----------



## Gadawg73

Samson said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've had a wide variety of "one graded paper/week/class."
> 
> I've had only one teacher grade a notebook and send it home every week.
> 
> No other teacher has been able to evaluating learning with anything approaching a systematic approach. It is really no great stretch of my imagination to believe that the average 16 year old hasn't the faintest clue how they are evaluated or what the expectations are to be successful in class.
> 
> Each teacher does submit a syllabus in the beginning of the year. The weighting of grades is detailed (usually daily grades are 40% and tests are 60%), but there is no timeline as to WHEN grades will be taken, or which type, or how often. Frankly, this is somewhat immaterial to me: am I supposed to recall that a quiz about linear equations, or photosynthesis, or The Battle of Lexington, or the theme of October Sky is going to be given tomorrow? Fuck No. That's the student's, not the parent's job.
> 
> MY only job is to get the graded work (notebook, test, lab, quiz, worksheet, warmup, etc., etc.), and reinforce/reward success or reinforce/punish failure. Research has revealed that this is effective only on a frequent basis, and only if the graded work is returned within 48 hours of the work being completed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you believe it is the student's job then what is your bitch?
> We never reward or punish our kid's work. We were out of that equation.
> Accountability of a 16 year old is THEY accept what they get.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're beginning to strike me as one of the reading impaired.
> 
> Start reading the fucking post and get a clue: I'll walk your retard-ass through this _ONCE_:
> 
> 1. It's the student's job to know WTF they'll be graded on
> 
> 2. It's My job to reinforce good grades, or punish bad grades
> 
> If you didn't participate in the accountability of YOUR 16 year old, then good for you: BRAVO. My parents never had to participate either, but guess what?? Maybe it's a fuckin' revelation to you, but everyone is not you!!
> 
> 
> 
> Jeeze, I'd encourage you to imagine that, but I'm not sure you have the two braincells necessary to rub together to make it happen.
Click to expand...


Hey good man, do what you want and that is fine with me.
YOU, not me, are the one that threw this out for us to comment on.
I agree with you. It is your job to do as you want to as you are the parent.
How is it working for you?


----------



## ConHog

Gadawg73 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you believe it is the student's job then what is your bitch?
> We never reward or punish our kid's work. We were out of that equation.
> Accountability of a 16 year old is THEY accept what they get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're beginning to strike me as one of the reading impaired.
> 
> Start reading the fucking post and get a clue: I'll walk your retard-ass through this _ONCE_:
> 
> 1. It's the student's job to know WTF they'll be graded on
> 
> 2. It's My job to reinforce good grades, or punish bad grades
> 
> If you didn't participate in the accountability of YOUR 16 year old, then good for you: BRAVO. My parents never had to participate either, but guess what?? Maybe it's a fuckin' revelation to you, but everyone is not you!!
> 
> 
> 
> Jeeze, I'd encourage you to imagine that, but I'm not sure you have the two braincells necessary to rub together to make it happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey good man, do what you want and that is fine with me.
> YOU, not me, are the one that threw this out for us to comment on.
> I agree with you. It is your job to do as you want to as you are the parent.
> How is it working for you?
Click to expand...


IF Samson is such a paragon of rewarding good grades and punishing bad, then WHY is he still worrying about his 10th grader failing? By that age the child should know the consequences should he bring home a bad report card without daddy having to see weekly progress. Unless said child is learning impaired, in which case I do not approve of grade based rewards and punishments.


----------



## chanel

Samson - 

Just an idea.  Why not allow the teachers to attach ALL assignments for the week to the weekly progress report and not just those that are graded?  If you are interested in what is being taught and what the kids are doing, why not include notes and other class activities that do not get graded?

I am co-teaching two classes with an outstanding teacher.  My only beef with her is that she does not return papers frequently.  Because we have so many absences, she waits until all the kids have made up the work, so they just don't copy.  She gets herself overwhelmed with paperwork because she grades almost daily.  That's not how it works in my own classes.  I check to see if assignments are done, and explain wrong answers as needed.  It's just a different method of assessment.  Independent work, without teacher guidance, are homework and tests.

Certainly the notes and teacher guided instruction would show whether or not the "assessment ie. tests" are connected to what is being taught.  Isn't that what you are looking for?


----------



## Ravi

Samson, I have an idea...why don't you just attend high school for your kid?


----------



## kwc57

ConHog said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're beginning to strike me as one of the reading impaired.
> 
> Start reading the fucking post and get a clue: I'll walk your retard-ass through this _ONCE_:
> 
> 1. It's the student's job to know WTF they'll be graded on
> 
> 2. It's My job to reinforce good grades, or punish bad grades
> 
> If you didn't participate in the accountability of YOUR 16 year old, then good for you: BRAVO. My parents never had to participate either, but guess what?? Maybe it's a fuckin' revelation to you, but everyone is not you!!
> 
> 
> 
> Jeeze, I'd encourage you to imagine that, but I'm not sure you have the two braincells necessary to rub together to make it happen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey good man, do what you want and that is fine with me.
> YOU, not me, are the one that threw this out for us to comment on.
> I agree with you. It is your job to do as you want to as you are the parent.
> How is it working for you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> IF Samson is such a paragon of rewarding good grades and punishing bad, then WHY is he still worrying about his 10th grader failing? By that age the child should know the consequences should he bring home a bad report card without daddy having to see weekly progress. Unless said child is learning impaired, in which case I do not approve of grade based rewards and punishments.
Click to expand...


You know, every time you open your mouth, you look more stupid than the last time.  Next to the word stupid in the dictionary, there is a picture of you.  I don't know why you have such a hard on for Samson, but you really need to get over it.


----------



## Samson

chanel said:


> Samson -
> 
> Just an idea.  Why not allow the teachers to attach ALL assignments for the week to the weekly progress report and not just those that are graded?  If you are interested in what is being taught and what the kids are doing, why not include notes and other class activities that do not get graded?
> 
> I am co-teaching two classes with an outstanding teacher.  My only beef with her is that she does not return papers frequently.  Because we have so many absences, she waits until all the kids have made up the work, so they just don't copy.  She gets herself overwhelmed with paperwork because she grades almost daily.  That's not how it works in my own classes.  I check to see if assignments are done, and explain wrong answers as needed.  It's just a different method of assessment.  Independent work, without teacher guidance, are homework and tests.
> 
> Certainly the notes and teacher guided instruction would show whether or not the "assessment ie. tests" are connected to what is being taught.  Isn't that what you are looking for?



Well, frankly I thought this would be asking too much.


----------



## Samson

kwc57 said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey good man, do what you want and that is fine with me.
> YOU, not me, are the one that threw this out for us to comment on.
> I agree with you. It is your job to do as you want to as you are the parent.
> How is it working for you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IF Samson is such a paragon of rewarding good grades and punishing bad, then WHY is he still worrying about his 10th grader failing? By that age the child should know the consequences should he bring home a bad report card without daddy having to see weekly progress. Unless said child is learning impaired, in which case I do not approve of grade based rewards and punishments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know, every time you open your mouth, you look more stupid than the last time.  Next to the word stupid in the dictionary, there is a picture of you.  I don't know why you have such a hard on for Samson, but you really need to get over it.
Click to expand...


"Paragon?" Now I'm a parental paragon for wanting to reward good work? Jeeze, it certainly doesn't take much to impress some idiots, but I hope he hasn't melted down any gold to make a statue of me yet. 

Clearly, Conhog's never taught in public school.

He has a astonishingly shallow grasp on the broad spectrum of students' abilities, interest, emotional development, etc., etc., etc. and what it takes to motivate individuals.


----------



## kwc57

Samson said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF Samson is such a paragon of rewarding good grades and punishing bad, then WHY is he still worrying about his 10th grader failing? By that age the child should know the consequences should he bring home a bad report card without daddy having to see weekly progress. Unless said child is learning impaired, in which case I do not approve of grade based rewards and punishments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know, every time you open your mouth, you look more stupid than the last time.  Next to the word stupid in the dictionary, there is a picture of you.  I don't know why you have such a hard on for Samson, but you really need to get over it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Paragon?" Now I'm a parental paragon for wanting to reward good work? Jeeze, it certainly doesn't take much to impress some idiots, but I hope he hasn't melted down any gold to make a statue of me yet.
> 
> Clearly, Conhog's never taught in public school.
> 
> He has a astonishingly shallow grasp on the broad spectrum of students' abilities, interest, emotional development, etc., etc., etc. and what it takes to motivate individuals.
Click to expand...


Like many people here, I don't think conhog has dome most of the things he claims.  Perhaps we should begin calling him Wally.......short for Walter Mitty.


----------



## ConHog

Samson said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF Samson is such a paragon of rewarding good grades and punishing bad, then WHY is he still worrying about his 10th grader failing? By that age the child should know the consequences should he bring home a bad report card without daddy having to see weekly progress. Unless said child is learning impaired, in which case I do not approve of grade based rewards and punishments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know, every time you open your mouth, you look more stupid than the last time.  Next to the word stupid in the dictionary, there is a picture of you.  I don't know why you have such a hard on for Samson, but you really need to get over it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Paragon?" Now I'm a parental paragon for wanting to reward good work? Jeeze, it certainly doesn't take much to impress some idiots, but I hope he hasn't melted down any gold to make a statue of me yet.
> 
> Clearly, Conhog's never taught in public school.
> 
> He has a astonishingly shallow grasp on the broad spectrum of students' abilities, interest, emotional development, etc., etc., etc. and what it takes to motivate individuals.
Click to expand...


We're not talking about a broad spectrum of students, we're talking about YOUR student. IF you have been this concerned his entire scholastic career one would assume that he would already be aware of the consequences of bad grades without you needing to remind him weekly.

Myself I think you're just a pompous blowhard of a bully who can't accept his own role in his child's poor grades.


----------



## Samson

First you make a broad generalization:




ConHog said:


> ...By that age the child should know the consequences should he bring home a bad report card .....



Then you claim you are not talking about a broad spectrum of students:



ConHog said:


> We're not talking about a broad spectrum of students .....



You clearly haven't a clue as to what you are saying: Frankly, I suspect that you're simply trolling the thread to hear your own blithering idiocy.


----------



## Samson

kwc57 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know, every time you open your mouth, you look more stupid than the last time.  Next to the word stupid in the dictionary, there is a picture of you.  I don't know why you have such a hard on for Samson, but you really need to get over it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Paragon?" Now I'm a parental paragon for wanting to reward good work? Jeeze, it certainly doesn't take much to impress some idiots, but I hope he hasn't melted down any gold to make a statue of me yet.
> 
> Clearly, Conhog's never taught in public school.
> 
> He has a astonishingly shallow grasp on the broad spectrum of students' abilities, interest, emotional development, etc., etc., etc. and what it takes to motivate individuals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like many people here, I don't think conhog has dome most of the things he claims.  Perhaps we should begin calling him Wally.......short for Walter Mitty.
Click to expand...


He's never claimed to have taught public school a day in his life.

He claims to be on a school board in Arkansas, an achievement that requires very little in the way of knowledge and skills.


----------



## Ravi

It's starting to sound as if your child is special needs. If so, he shouldn't be in regular classes...he should be somewhere where teachers can give him the attention and encouragement he needs.

As opposed to classes that include the general student body...all the extra work teachers must spend on him to satisfy you is unfair to the other kids.

Most public schools have such programs...you should look into them instead of harassing the teachers.


----------



## Annie

Ravi said:


> It's starting to sound as if your child is special needs. If so, he shouldn't be in regular classes...he should be somewhere where teachers can give him the attention and encouragement he needs.
> 
> As opposed to classes that include the general student body...all the extra work teachers must spend on him to satisfy you is unfair to the other kids.
> 
> Most public schools have such programs...you should look into them instead of harassing the teachers.



I believe he made that clear earlier in the thread. I've no doubt that it's an inclusion situation, but I believe Samson's contention is that it's just reasonable for this type of feedback for any student. He happens to be arguing on his son's behalf, not for the whole school-though that would be ideal as I understand him.


----------



## ConHog

Samson said:


> First you make a broad generalization:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...By that age the child should know the consequences should he bring home a bad report card .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then you claim you are not talking about a broad spectrum of students:
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're not talking about a broad spectrum of students .....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You clearly haven't a clue as to what you are saying: Frankly, I suspect that you're simply trolling the thread to hear your own blithering idiocy.
Click to expand...


No stupid, I'm talking about YOUR child by the 10th grade. IF you are as vigilant about grades as you claim, by the 10th grade you shouldn't even have to be part of the equation.


----------



## Cecilie1200

ConHog said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> First you make a broad generalization:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...By that age the child should know the consequences should he bring home a bad report card .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then you claim you are not talking about a broad spectrum of students:
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're not talking about a broad spectrum of students .....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You clearly haven't a clue as to what you are saying: Frankly, I suspect that you're simply trolling the thread to hear your own blithering idiocy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No stupid, I'm talking about YOUR child by the 10th grade. IF you are as vigilant about grades as you claim, by the 10th grade you shouldn't even have to be part of the equation.
Click to expand...


Oh, yeah, 10th graders are fully realized, mature adults able to completely manage their own lives without parental guidance or supervision.    From the sound of this thread, there are people in their thirties and beyond who can't even make that claim, let alone 10th graders.


----------



## Samson

ConHog said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> First you make a broad generalization:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...By that age the child should know the consequences should he bring home a bad report card .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then you claim you are not talking about a broad spectrum of students:
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're not talking about a broad spectrum of students .....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You clearly haven't a clue as to what you are saying: Frankly, I suspect that you're simply trolling the thread to hear your own blithering idiocy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No stupid, I'm talking about YOUR child by the 10th grade. IF you are as vigilant about grades as you claim, by the 10th grade you shouldn't even have to be part of the equation.
Click to expand...


Not even a good attempt to cover your assinine duplicity.


----------



## IanC

I can't believe this thread has gone on for so long.

It takes all kinds to make the world go round. Samson is doing a service for all by making the teachers and staff realize that there are outsiders who are interested and involved with what is going on. And his son is being shown by example that both he and education are important to his parents and that interaction with the 'machine' is not only possible but even productive sometimes. I worked the system for my kids too.


----------



## iamwhatiseem

I don't know how I missed this thread.
I'll just chime in that I agree 110% with Samson on this.

In 8th grade my son got a C in algebra. Which he couldn't explain to me. 
I couldn't figure this out, he is good in math and early algebra is as easy as putting a 10 pc puzzle together.
So I emailed the teacher via their website..2 days..3 days..4 days..nothing.
So I try again...nothing. It ends up this teacher doesn't like email so he doesn't use it. Ok then WTF is it doing there?
So I call the school and ask to speak to the principal. After playing 30 questions, finally I get through, I respectfully ask to set a meet time with the teacher about my sons grade. I gave him my cell phone. 
2 days...3 days...4 days...ok now I am pissed off.
I call again...I get this "well Mr. ___" has been really busy and hasn't had the time yet".
I insist....Get this:
I go to the school and meet with the teacher in his room that afternoon as planned, and the principal, Mr.___ and another male teacher. WTF?? Is this a courtroom?
To make the story short - my son got the C because he wouldn't stop talking after he finished his classroom work. I asked how many times was he told to stop, the teacher didn't know specifically, but said "several times". I asked was he sent to the prinipals office.."no". I asked did anyone try and contact me so I could speak with my son about it at home..."no".
So I said..so what your saying is, is my sons punishment is to lower his grade?
Before he could answer, I withdrew papers from my sons algebra folder..showing 100's, 98's etc. etc. howmework paper after paper. I showed equal marks on his tests and quizzes. 
So I asked a different question, this time to the principal.."is it this schools policy that the only disciplinary action taken is to lower a childs grade"?
This went on for about 3-4 minutes.

At the end of it all, my sons C stayed. He received good grades after that, but only because I spoke with him about talking in class.


----------



## Ravi

Annie said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's starting to sound as if your child is special needs. If so, he shouldn't be in regular classes...he should be somewhere where teachers can give him the attention and encouragement he needs.
> 
> As opposed to classes that include the general student body...all the extra work teachers must spend on him to satisfy you is unfair to the other kids.
> 
> Most public schools have such programs...you should look into them instead of harassing the teachers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I believe he made that clear earlier in the thread. I've no doubt that it's an inclusion situation, but I believe Samson's contention is that it's just reasonable for this type of feedback for any student. He happens to be arguing on his son's behalf, not for the whole school-though that would be ideal as I understand him.
Click to expand...

I read back over the first few pages and see that he apparently made that clear to you in a pm.

If this is truly the case his methods are still more idiotic, imo. The vast majority of teachers would be willing to make exceptions for special needs children and work with the parents...to the point of sending home a lot of feedback, if asked and in many cases if not asked.

I am still convinced that Samson has an innate hatred for public employees and is merely aggravating them for sport.


----------



## Samson

iamwhatiseem said:


> I go to the school and meet with the teacher in his room that afternoon as planned, and the principal, Mr.___ and another male teacher. WTF?? Is this a courtroom?



In many ways it is indeed, a courtroom.

When you complain, or have "a concern," or issue, or whatever, with a private business, usually you simply take your business elsewhere.

However, the public school is a PUBLIC BUSINESS, i.e. _YOU_ are one of the owners. You are part of the "jury" in your courtroom analogy. The teacher is the defendant. The principal is her attorney. The student is the plaintiff. You also play the role of the plaintiff's attorney.

Student Plaintiff's are easily discredited...you must have overwhelming evidence to support whatever case you bring against the defendant (teacher). Teachers normally count on the student's inability to gather evidence, and therefore don't bother keeping any evidence of their own. This is despite principals' strenuous urging to DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. So if the Plaintiff's Attorney (Parents) ever are able to present detailed evidence, they will nearly always win their case.


----------



## ConHog

Samson said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> I go to the school and meet with the teacher in his room that afternoon as planned, and the principal, Mr.___ and another male teacher. WTF?? Is this a courtroom?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In many ways it is indeed, a courtroom.
> 
> When you complain, or have "a concern," or issue, or whatever, with a private business, usually you simply take your business elsewhere.
> 
> However, the public school is a PUBLIC BUSINESS, i.e. _YOU_ are one of the owners. You are part of the "jury" in your courtroom analogy. The teacher is the defendant. The principal is her attorney. The student is the plaintiff. You also play the role of the plaintiff's attorney.
> 
> Student Plaintiff's are easily discredited...you must have overwhelming evidence to support whatever case you bring against the defendant (teacher). Teachers normally count on the student's inability to gather evidence, and therefore don't bother keeping any evidence of their own. This is despite principals' strenuous urging to DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. So if the Plaintiff's Attorney (Parents) ever are able to present detailed evidence, they will nearly always win their case.
Click to expand...


What are you babbling about? 

Oh and nearly every state has  a freedom of choice when it comes to school, and you can take your "business" to another district if your unhappy with your current one.


----------



## Gadawg73

Samson said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> I go to the school and meet with the teacher in his room that afternoon as planned, and the principal, Mr.___ and another male teacher. WTF?? Is this a courtroom?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In many ways it is indeed, a courtroom.
> 
> When you complain, or have "a concern," or issue, or whatever, with a private business, usually you simply take your business elsewhere.
> 
> However, the public school is a PUBLIC BUSINESS, i.e. _YOU_ are one of the owners. You are part of the "jury" in your courtroom analogy. The teacher is the defendant. The principal is her attorney. The student is the plaintiff. You also play the role of the plaintiff's attorney.
> 
> Student Plaintiff's are easily discredited...you must have overwhelming evidence to support whatever case you bring against the defendant (teacher). Teachers normally count on the student's inability to gather evidence, and therefore don't bother keeping any evidence of their own. This is despite principals' strenuous urging to DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. So if the Plaintiff's Attorney (Parents) ever are able to present detailed evidence, they will nearly always win their case.
Click to expand...


If you are one of the owners of this public school which you claim is a "public business" then what the hell is stopping you from firing everyone and anyone that does not answer to your demands?
I own 3 businesses and that is the way my business, a "public business" and ALL businesses are run.
You need to know though that in civil actions you never have to have overwhelming evidence ever to win. A jury is charged that all you need to prove is a preponderance of the evidence which is 
 .0000000000000000000000000001 more evidence than the other guy to win.


----------



## Annie

iamwhatiseem said:


> I don't know how I missed this thread.
> I'll just chime in that I agree 110% with Samson on this.
> 
> In 8th grade my son got a C in algebra. Which he couldn't explain to me.
> I couldn't figure this out, he is good in math and early algebra is as easy as putting a 10 pc puzzle together.
> So I emailed the teacher via their website..2 days..3 days..4 days..nothing.
> So I try again...nothing. It ends up this teacher doesn't like email so he doesn't use it. Ok then WTF is it doing there?
> So I call the school and ask to speak to the principal. After playing 30 questions, finally I get through, I respectfully ask to set a meet time with the teacher about my sons grade. I gave him my cell phone.
> 2 days...3 days...4 days...ok now I am pissed off.
> I call again...I get this "well Mr. ___" has been really busy and hasn't had the time yet".
> I insist....Get this:
> I go to the school and meet with the teacher in his room that afternoon as planned, and the principal, Mr.___ and another male teacher. WTF?? Is this a courtroom?
> To make the story short - my son got the C because he wouldn't stop talking after he finished his classroom work. I asked how many times was he told to stop, the teacher didn't know specifically, but said "several times". I asked was he sent to the prinipals office.."no". I asked did anyone try and contact me so I could speak with my son about it at home..."no".
> So I said..so what your saying is, is my sons punishment is to lower his grade?
> Before he could answer, I withdrew papers from my sons algebra folder..showing 100's, 98's etc. etc. howmework paper after paper. I showed equal marks on his tests and quizzes.
> So I asked a different question, this time to the principal.."is it this schools policy that the only disciplinary action taken is to lower a childs grade"?
> This went on for about 3-4 minutes.
> 
> At the end of it all, my sons C stayed. He received good grades after that, but only because I spoke with him about talking in class.



THAT I would have taken to the school board. Grades are for achievement, not behavior. There should be a reflection of poor behavior on report card, not via the achievement grade. Detention would be fine. I'd be more concerned why your son had the 'free time' to be talking so much. Placement sounds wrong.


----------



## Gadawg73

Annie said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know how I missed this thread.
> I'll just chime in that I agree 110% with Samson on this.
> 
> In 8th grade my son got a C in algebra. Which he couldn't explain to me.
> I couldn't figure this out, he is good in math and early algebra is as easy as putting a 10 pc puzzle together.
> So I emailed the teacher via their website..2 days..3 days..4 days..nothing.
> So I try again...nothing. It ends up this teacher doesn't like email so he doesn't use it. Ok then WTF is it doing there?
> So I call the school and ask to speak to the principal. After playing 30 questions, finally I get through, I respectfully ask to set a meet time with the teacher about my sons grade. I gave him my cell phone.
> 2 days...3 days...4 days...ok now I am pissed off.
> I call again...I get this "well Mr. ___" has been really busy and hasn't had the time yet".
> I insist....Get this:
> I go to the school and meet with the teacher in his room that afternoon as planned, and the principal, Mr.___ and another male teacher. WTF?? Is this a courtroom?
> To make the story short - my son got the C because he wouldn't stop talking after he finished his classroom work. I asked how many times was he told to stop, the teacher didn't know specifically, but said "several times". I asked was he sent to the prinipals office.."no". I asked did anyone try and contact me so I could speak with my son about it at home..."no".
> So I said..so what your saying is, is my sons punishment is to lower his grade?
> Before he could answer, I withdrew papers from my sons algebra folder..showing 100's, 98's etc. etc. howmework paper after paper. I showed equal marks on his tests and quizzes.
> So I asked a different question, this time to the principal.."is it this schools policy that the only disciplinary action taken is to lower a childs grade"?
> This went on for about 3-4 minutes.
> 
> At the end of it all, my sons C stayed. He received good grades after that, but only because I spoke with him about talking in class.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THAT I would have taken to the school board. Grades are for achievement, not behavior. There should be a reflection of poor behavior on report card, not via the achievement grade. Detention would be fine. I'd be more concerned why your son had the 'free time' to be talking so much. Placement sounds wrong.
Click to expand...


I could tell a dozen or more stories similar to this about what happened to my 3 kids with a combined 36 years in government schools.
You have to know when and where to pick your battles.
The same goes with LIFE.


----------



## ConHog

Annie said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know how I missed this thread.
> I'll just chime in that I agree 110% with Samson on this.
> 
> In 8th grade my son got a C in algebra. Which he couldn't explain to me.
> I couldn't figure this out, he is good in math and early algebra is as easy as putting a 10 pc puzzle together.
> So I emailed the teacher via their website..2 days..3 days..4 days..nothing.
> So I try again...nothing. It ends up this teacher doesn't like email so he doesn't use it. Ok then WTF is it doing there?
> So I call the school and ask to speak to the principal. After playing 30 questions, finally I get through, I respectfully ask to set a meet time with the teacher about my sons grade. I gave him my cell phone.
> 2 days...3 days...4 days...ok now I am pissed off.
> I call again...I get this "well Mr. ___" has been really busy and hasn't had the time yet".
> I insist....Get this:
> I go to the school and meet with the teacher in his room that afternoon as planned, and the principal, Mr.___ and another male teacher. WTF?? Is this a courtroom?
> To make the story short - my son got the C because he wouldn't stop talking after he finished his classroom work. I asked how many times was he told to stop, the teacher didn't know specifically, but said "several times". I asked was he sent to the prinipals office.."no". I asked did anyone try and contact me so I could speak with my son about it at home..."no".
> So I said..so what your saying is, is my sons punishment is to lower his grade?
> Before he could answer, I withdrew papers from my sons algebra folder..showing 100's, 98's etc. etc. howmework paper after paper. I showed equal marks on his tests and quizzes.
> So I asked a different question, this time to the principal.."is it this schools policy that the only disciplinary action taken is to lower a childs grade"?
> This went on for about 3-4 minutes.
> 
> At the end of it all, my sons C stayed. He received good grades after that, but only because I spoke with him about talking in class.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THAT I would have taken to the school board. Grades are for achievement, not behavior. There should be a reflection of poor behavior on report card, not via the achievement grade. Detention would be fine. I'd be more concerned why your son had the 'free time' to be talking so much. Placement sounds wrong.
Click to expand...


1000% agreed. If this case were brought to me, the grade would have been reversed, and the teacher reprimanded for several things, not the least of which would be ignoring his email.


----------



## sangha

Samson said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again.
> 
> You have a flair for putting the "Ass" in assume: The meeting is to address my complaint about a teacher's inability, incompetence, or whatever burr is up her butt, that prevents her from producing a graded paper once a week.
> 
> You _assume_ a graded paper/week does equal the total "said progress." I have never implied this. There could be many components to progress. I have only asked to see one graded paper per week as a _minimum example_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blah blah blah, you are PLAINLY only doing this to be a nuisance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Plainly, my "nuisance" hasn't been enough to alter one teacher's habit's.
> 
> But, if she wants to hang herself over one graded paper/week, I'll be happy to watch.
> 
> There's lots of people that need work these days.
Click to expand...


Samson is such a passive aggresive weenie, he doesn't realize how he's already revealed that he's doing this only to annoy. Sure, at first he started claiming this was about his child, but that pretense qiuckly fell to the side as Samson went for the whole "This is how teaching is done" argument. Now, he's dropping even that obvious lie, and now admits that his demand for one graded paper has nothing to do with measuring progress or the teachers' effectiveness, or even reviewing the curriculum

Samson has now been reduced to claiming that this one graded assignment/week is some sort of "minimum example", but I doubt we'll ever hear what exactly it is an example of. After all, Samson himself has ruled it our as being a "minimum example" of the kids progress, the schools' curriculum, or the teachers' effectiveness or competency

So what is the point of demanding this "minimum example"?


----------



## sangha

Samson said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that would be great.
> 
> Apparently that level of concern isn't acheivable among all his teachers: thus the complaint.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've admitted your child isn't concerned, so why should a teacher be? Limited resources need to be spent on children who give a shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um no.
> 
> Teachers in public schools are hired to teach ALL the kids, not only the ones that are "concerned."
> 
> Jaysus Christ you really are fucking clueless.
Click to expand...


This idiot claims to have work in a school system and he doesnt realize that schools expell kids all the time. 

Teachers are under no obligation to ensure that every child learns. Every society has its' winners and its' losers. We know what you're raising; another rightwing welfare queen who will blame the nanny govt for its' failure to suceed


----------



## sangha

ConHog said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My kids always had an "Agenda" book that had all of the requirements of each course, what the course would teach and what they would be tested on. The agenda had a time line of what would be taught when. I do not remember individual tests being sent out all the time but I do remember if one of my kids received a low mark on a test we always knew what area they were tested on and would make sure they went over that area for the midterm and/or final.
> If they are not providing you with an agenda and/or course guideline at the first of each semester/quarter for each course and what will be covered, when it will be covered and when the tests are given on that particular area of course work then that is a real problem.
> The agenda keeps the student on task and makes them accountable for their own actions. If they do not do well on any test THEY know it and have no excuses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually what you are describing is what I've used in all my classes for the past 8 years. The students, (middle school), needed to have a spiral notebook, and pocket folder color coordinated for each of my classes. Into the notebook were all notes,  , diagrams, graphic organizers, etc. Following each lesson would be their homework, including page and problem numbers, corrections in contrasting colors along with additional information, also contrasting color, given during corrections and discussions. At the end of each section in preparing for testing would be a review to be completed in notebook and an optional online quiz that could be repeated and was graded each time immediately. Both the hand out review and online review covered all material on the test-though questions were different.
> 
> In history classes the average student went through 3 notebooks per year.
> 
> While I collected homework grades occasionally, the big 'homework grade' was the notebook. If all assignments had been corrected, if dates and page numbers for reading and assignments had been used, if contrasting colors had been used, they'd get an A on notebook. The only reason that I'd collect homework grades, (once or twice a week), was to ensure they were doing their homework to the best of their ability. My major concern was that they understood what was wrong and why. I wanted them to develop better note taking skills, to prepare for tests, both imminent and long term.
> 
> Seriously, I had at least 40 high school/college students return and thank me. Some wrote letters about how I'd helped them prepare for higher learning-ahead of their classmates. Yeah, those letters are part of my portfolio.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You sound like an excellent and very detail oriented teacher. Wish there were more like you .
> 
> From the 9th grade on, we require all teachers to provide a syllabus at the beginning of each school year detailing the expected timeline and homework and test dates for each course to both the students and the administrators. strangely the only complaints we've received are over the rare occasions when a class is behind schedule, which does happen.
> 
> We leave it up to individual teachers to how they want to handle note taking and such.
Click to expand...


The thing is, all of this requires that the parent take an interest in the childs education and to put the kind of effort into making sure their child is learning that an interested and involved parent would make. None of this is true in Samsons' case.


----------



## sangha

Annie said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually what you are describing is what I've used in all my classes for the past 8 years. The students, (middle school), needed to have a spiral notebook, and pocket folder color coordinated for each of my classes. Into the notebook were all notes,  , diagrams, graphic organizers, etc. Following each lesson would be their homework, including page and problem numbers, corrections in contrasting colors along with additional information, also contrasting color, given during corrections and discussions. At the end of each section in preparing for testing would be a review to be completed in notebook and an optional online quiz that could be repeated and was graded each time immediately. Both the hand out review and online review covered all material on the test-though questions were different.
> 
> In history classes the average student went through 3 notebooks per year.
> 
> While I collected homework grades occasionally, the big 'homework grade' was the notebook. If all assignments had been corrected, if dates and page numbers for reading and assignments had been used, if contrasting colors had been used, they'd get an A on notebook. The only reason that I'd collect homework grades, (once or twice a week), was to ensure they were doing their homework to the best of their ability. My major concern was that they understood what was wrong and why. I wanted them to develop better note taking skills, to prepare for tests, both imminent and long term.
> 
> Seriously, I had at least 40 high school/college students return and thank me. Some wrote letters about how I'd helped them prepare for higher learning-ahead of their classmates. Yeah, those letters are part of my portfolio.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You sound like an excellent and very detail oriented teacher. Wish there were more like you .
> 
> From the 9th grade on, we require all teachers to provide a syllabus at the beginning of each school year detailing the expected timeline and homework and test dates for each course to both the students and the administrators. strangely the only complaints we've received are over the rare occasions when a class is behind schedule, which does happen.
> 
> We leave it up to individual teachers to how they want to handle note taking and such.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll say that I took Samson's initial posting as asking for more than this, upon reflection I think this is what he was looking for, perhaps even beyond what he was looking for.
> 
> Yet you seem to deride his queries for this type of information. What is it the child is doing in class? 'Well, let's look at the notebook...'
> 
> My concern as primarily a social studies teacher was the fact that 'big grades' are few and far between. Perhaps 5 or 6 in a trimester, give or take. However, the bulk of my grades were in homework and participation, if those were at A level, even if 'big' grades were toast, the child would pass. If better than 'toast', say a C level, they'd get a C+ or B. 'Big' grades being tests, reports, special projects.
Click to expand...


I'll say that I took Samson OP as nothing like that. If Samson is concerned about how the school keeps the parents informed their students performance, then he would be going to the School Board and proposing that they implement such a system. In fact, IIRC Samson has explicitely denied that he is trying to improve the school systems' reporting methods.

Samson is unable to get his child to bring his graded assignments home for Samson to review, so he wants the teachers to be responsible for informing Samson of the childs' grades.


----------



## sangha

kwc57 said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My son is a senior this year and what you describe is pretty much what they do here from 7th thru 12th grade.  The only issue, the teachers do not allow the sacred notebooks to ever leave the confines of the classroom until the end of the school year.  The teacher can see how the student is doing, but all mom and dad gets thru an online service is a number grade like 92.5 with a description like "unit 7 quiz".  If the student makes good grades, the parents are actually discouraged from scheduling a conference during the parent/teacher conference dates.  You can schedule one if you want, but they would prefer you not.
> 
> 
> 
> To me that would be wrong. The kids need to have their notebooks and handouts to study for tests and do their homework. 6th grade I went through their notebooks about every 3/4 weeks. 7th grade, about every 6/8 weeks. 8th grade just once per trimester. It's a process, not an end point.
> 
> If done correctly, which is rated by notebook grade, all they need to know is in their notebook and folder. Their weak points are in contrasting colors, thus for mid-terms, finals, they know where to focus their studies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you can understand Samson's frustration that his school system won't allow a parent to see their child's work and just wants them to accept a grade with no context?
Click to expand...


The school ALLOWS Samson to see his childs' work. The problem is Samsons' child, who wont bring the work home for Samson to see


----------



## sangha

Samson said:


> I've had a wide variety of "one graded paper/week/class."
> 
> I've had only one teacher grade a notebook and send it home every week.
> 
> No other teacher has been able to evaluating learning with anything approaching a systematic approach. It is really no great stretch of my imagination to believe that the average 16 year old hasn't the faintest clue how they are evaluated or what the expectations are to be successful in class.
> 
> Each teacher does submit a syllabus in the beginning of the year. The weighting of grades is detailed (usually daily grades are 40% and tests are 60%), but there is no timeline as to WHEN grades will be taken, or which type, or how often. Frankly, this is somewhat immaterial to me: am I supposed to recall that a quiz about linear equations, or photosynthesis, or The Battle of Lexington, or the theme of October Sky is going to be given tomorrow? Fuck No. That's the student's, not the parent's job.
> 
> MY only job is to get the graded work (notebook, test, lab, quiz, worksheet, warmup, etc., etc.), and reinforce/reward success or reinforce/punish failure. Research has revealed that this is effective only on a frequent basis, and only if the graded work is returned within 48 hours of the work being completed.



Here's where Samson pretends that his request has something to do with proper teaching methods, even though he has already admitted that his "minimal" request will show little about the childs' or the schools' progress.

And if you want to know WHEN a test is given, why don't you try asking your child?

PS - You also just made it obvious that you misunderstood Operant Conditioning, reinforcement and punishment, but I'd love to see some links to your "research".


----------



## sangha

ConHog said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're beginning to strike me as one of the reading impaired.
> 
> Start reading the fucking post and get a clue: I'll walk your retard-ass through this _ONCE_:
> 
> 1. It's the student's job to know WTF they'll be graded on
> 
> 2. It's My job to reinforce good grades, or punish bad grades
> 
> If you didn't participate in the accountability of YOUR 16 year old, then good for you: BRAVO. My parents never had to participate either, but guess what?? Maybe it's a fuckin' revelation to you, but everyone is not you!!
> 
> 
> 
> Jeeze, I'd encourage you to imagine that, but I'm not sure you have the two braincells necessary to rub together to make it happen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey good man, do what you want and that is fine with me.
> YOU, not me, are the one that threw this out for us to comment on.
> I agree with you. It is your job to do as you want to as you are the parent.
> How is it working for you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> IF Samson is such a paragon of rewarding good grades and punishing bad, then WHY is he still worrying about his 10th grader failing? By that age the child should know the consequences should he bring home a bad report card without daddy having to see weekly progress. Unless said child is learning impaired, in which case I do not approve of grade based rewards and punishments.
Click to expand...


Samsons' child is failing, because somehow the nanny govts' school system and its' teachers are doing something wrong. This becomes obvious once you realize that Samson, who once worked in a school system of some kind, and knows everything about teaching, could not possibly be held responsible for not teaching his child the skill of bringing his classwork home.


----------



## sangha

Samson said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> IF Samson is such a paragon of rewarding good grades and punishing bad, then WHY is he still worrying about his 10th grader failing? By that age the child should know the consequences should he bring home a bad report card without daddy having to see weekly progress. Unless said child is learning impaired, in which case I do not approve of grade based rewards and punishments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know, every time you open your mouth, you look more stupid than the last time.  Next to the word stupid in the dictionary, there is a picture of you.  I don't know why you have such a hard on for Samson, but you really need to get over it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Paragon?" Now I'm a parental paragon for wanting to reward good work? Jeeze, it certainly doesn't take much to impress some idiots, but I hope he hasn't melted down any gold to make a statue of me yet.
> 
> Clearly, Conhog's never taught in public school.
> 
> He has a astonishingly shallow grasp on the broad spectrum of students' abilities, interest, emotional development, etc., etc., etc. and what it takes to motivate individuals.
Click to expand...


Unlike Samson, whose knowledge about motivating students is so apparent in his own childs' behavior.


----------



## sangha

Samson said:


> First you make a broad generalization:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...By that age the child should know the consequences should he bring home a bad report card .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then you claim you are not talking about a broad spectrum of students:
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're not talking about a broad spectrum of students .....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You clearly haven't a clue as to what you are saying: Frankly, I suspect that you're simply trolling the thread to hear your own blithering idiocy.
Click to expand...


So at age 15, your child STILL does not understand that his actions have consequences?

Would it be an inappropriately "broad generalization" to say that 15 years should know how to read at a 6th grade level, and that if they can't, something has gone very wrong?


----------



## sangha

Samson said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Paragon?" Now I'm a parental paragon for wanting to reward good work? Jeeze, it certainly doesn't take much to impress some idiots, but I hope he hasn't melted down any gold to make a statue of me yet.
> 
> Clearly, Conhog's never taught in public school.
> 
> He has a astonishingly shallow grasp on the broad spectrum of students' abilities, interest, emotional development, etc., etc., etc. and what it takes to motivate individuals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like many people here, I don't think conhog has dome most of the things he claims.  Perhaps we should begin calling him Wally.......short for Walter Mitty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's never claimed to have taught public school a day in his life.
> 
> He claims to be on a school board in Arkansas, an achievement that requires very little in the way of knowledge and skills.
Click to expand...


Actually, it requires more than it takes to be a parent. For one thing, you have to actually be concerned about what the school is doing. That rules out Samson.


----------



## sangha

iamwhatiseem said:


> I don't know how I missed this thread.
> I'll just chime in that I agree 110% with Samson on this.
> 
> In 8th grade my son got a C in algebra. Which he couldn't explain to me.
> I couldn't figure this out, he is good in math and early algebra is as easy as putting a 10 pc puzzle together.
> So I emailed the teacher via their website..2 days..3 days..4 days..nothing.
> So I try again...nothing. It ends up this teacher doesn't like email so he doesn't use it. Ok then WTF is it doing there?
> So I call the school and ask to speak to the principal. After playing 30 questions, finally I get through, I respectfully ask to set a meet time with the teacher about my sons grade. I gave him my cell phone.
> 2 days...3 days...4 days...ok now I am pissed off.
> I call again...I get this "well Mr. ___" has been really busy and hasn't had the time yet".
> I insist....Get this:
> I go to the school and meet with the teacher in his room that afternoon as planned, and the principal, Mr.___ and another male teacher. WTF?? Is this a courtroom?
> To make the story short - my son got the C because he wouldn't stop talking after he finished his classroom work. I asked how many times was he told to stop, the teacher didn't know specifically, but said "several times". I asked was he sent to the prinipals office.."no". I asked did anyone try and contact me so I could speak with my son about it at home..."no".
> So I said..so what your saying is, is my sons punishment is to lower his grade?
> Before he could answer, I withdrew papers from my sons algebra folder..showing 100's, 98's etc. etc. howmework paper after paper. I showed equal marks on his tests and quizzes.
> So I asked a different question, this time to the principal.."is it this schools policy that the only disciplinary action taken is to lower a childs grade"?
> This went on for about 3-4 minutes.
> 
> At the end of it all, my sons C stayed. He received good grades after that, but only because I spoke with him about talking in class.



Why did your 13 yo child not know that repeated talkiing in class would hurt his grades?


----------



## Jackson

I've always taught elementary, but I certainly would like to know what my son was doing in the upper grades as well.  Didn't have that problem.  I would just tell the teachers if you can't send the papers home each week, I will come on Monday after school after you have graded them on the weekend to see exactly what he missed and we will be going over them the following week.  See you on Mondays.

And show up each MOnday after school and wait for their excuses.  Document what they say and make your appointment with the Superintendent if you don't find common ground with the principal.


----------



## Samson

Jackson said:


> I've always taught elementary, but I certainly would like to know what my son was doing in the upper grades as well.  Didn't have that problem.  I would just tell the teachers if you can't send the papers home each week, I will come on Monday after school after you have graded them on the weekend to see exactly what he missed and we will be going over them the following week.  See you on Mondays.
> 
> And show up each MOnday after school and wait for their excuses.  Document what they say and make your appointment with the Superintendent if you don't find common ground with the principal.



I'd love to do this, but the burden then becomes as much mine as anyone.

At any rate, after the meeting with the district, they have offered, in writing, sent by certified mail, a satisfactory solution: 

A school employee, a Paper-Gathering Specialist, will collect specimens of my kid's work on a weekly basis from all his teachers, and will send this home with my kid on Friday.


----------



## Ravi

Samson said:


> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've always taught elementary, but I certainly would like to know what my son was doing in the upper grades as well.  Didn't have that problem.  I would just tell the teachers if you can't send the papers home each week, I will come on Monday after school after you have graded them on the weekend to see exactly what he missed and we will be going over them the following week.  See you on Mondays.
> 
> And show up each MOnday after school and wait for their excuses.  Document what they say and make your appointment with the Superintendent if you don't find common ground with the principal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd love to do this, but the burden then becomes as much mine as anyone.
> 
> At any rate, after the meeting with the district, they have offered, in writing, sent by certified mail, a satisfactory solution:
> 
> A school employee, a Paper-Gathering Specialist, will collect specimens of my kid's work on a weekly basis from all his teachers, and will send this home with my kid on Friday.
Click to expand...

Excellent! You created a job just because you can't get your son to bring his work home himself.


----------



## Annie

Samson said:


> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've always taught elementary, but I certainly would like to know what my son was doing in the upper grades as well.  Didn't have that problem.  I would just tell the teachers if you can't send the papers home each week, I will come on Monday after school after you have graded them on the weekend to see exactly what he missed and we will be going over them the following week.  See you on Mondays.
> 
> And show up each MOnday after school and wait for their excuses.  Document what they say and make your appointment with the Superintendent if you don't find common ground with the principal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd love to do this, but the burden then becomes as much mine as anyone.
> 
> At any rate, after the meeting with the district, they have offered, in writing, sent by certified mail, a satisfactory solution:
> 
> A school employee, *a Paper-Gathering Specialist*, will collect specimens of my kid's work on a weekly basis from all his teachers, and will send this home with my kid on Friday.
Click to expand...


----------



## Samson

Annie said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've always taught elementary, but I certainly would like to know what my son was doing in the upper grades as well.  Didn't have that problem.  I would just tell the teachers if you can't send the papers home each week, I will come on Monday after school after you have graded them on the weekend to see exactly what he missed and we will be going over them the following week.  See you on Mondays.
> 
> And show up each MOnday after school and wait for their excuses.  Document what they say and make your appointment with the Superintendent if you don't find common ground with the principal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd love to do this, but the burden then becomes as much mine as anyone.
> 
> At any rate, after the meeting with the district, they have offered, in writing, sent by certified mail, a satisfactory solution:
> 
> A school employee, *a Paper-Gathering Specialist*, will collect specimens of my kid's work on a weekly basis from all his teachers, and will send this home with my kid on Friday.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Yeah, I didn't see that coming......apparently my imagination doesn't extend far enough into the realms of the ludirous to imagine how the mind of a school district thinks.


----------



## sangha

Ravi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've always taught elementary, but I certainly would like to know what my son was doing in the upper grades as well.  Didn't have that problem.  I would just tell the teachers if you can't send the papers home each week, I will come on Monday after school after you have graded them on the weekend to see exactly what he missed and we will be going over them the following week.  See you on Mondays.
> 
> And show up each MOnday after school and wait for their excuses.  Document what they say and make your appointment with the Superintendent if you don't find common ground with the principal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd love to do this, but the burden then becomes as much mine as anyone.
> 
> At any rate, after the meeting with the district, they have offered, in writing, sent by certified mail, a satisfactory solution:
> 
> A school employee, a Paper-Gathering Specialist, will collect specimens of my kid's work on a weekly basis from all his teachers, and will send this home with my kid on Friday.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent! You created a job just because you can't get your son to bring his work home himself.
Click to expand...


The important line in Samsons' post


> I'd love to do this, but the burden then becomes as much mine as anyone.



God forbid samson be burdened by the childs' education.


----------



## sangha

kwc is such a pussy that s/he negged me for this post, but is too scared to post in this thread. She doesn't have the balls to confront me




sangha said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd love to do this, but the burden then becomes as much mine as anyone.
> 
> At any rate, after the meeting with the district, they have offered, in writing, sent by certified mail, a satisfactory solution:
> 
> A school employee, a Paper-Gathering Specialist, will collect specimens of my kid's work on a weekly basis from all his teachers, and will send this home with my kid on Friday.
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent! You created a job just because you can't get your son to bring his work home himself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The important line in Samsons' post
> 
> 
> 
> I'd love to do this, but the burden then becomes as much mine as anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> God forbid samson be burdened by the childs' education.
Click to expand...


----------



## Ravi

I made up for it. It was an awesome and ironic point.


----------



## kwc57

sangha said:


> kwc is such a pussy that s/he negged me for this post, but is too scared to post in this thread. She doesn't have the balls to confront me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent! You created a job just because you can't get your son to bring his work home himself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The important line in Samsons' post
> 
> 
> 
> I'd love to do this, but the burden then becomes as much mine as anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> God forbid samson be burdened by the childs' education.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


I negged you because you are an ignorant fuckwad who has some personal thing for Samson.  I've confronted you multiple times in this thread concerning your douchebaggery.  To confront you again wouldn't serve any purpose because you'll just continue to be an unreasonable douche.  Samson didn't dreate a job.  They already have someone filling the role and that person will now do what the lazy assed public servants wuldn't do......provide reasonable feedback to a parent about their child's progress.  It isn't a matter of Samson's child not bringing papers home, it's a matter of papers not being returned to the student to be able to bring them home and the teacher still not providing graded papers to a parent when asked......but you already knew that if you actually read the thread.  My son is a senior this year and I haven't seen a single school paper since 6th grade.  They keep notebooks that they have to put their returned papers in and they are not allowed to remove the notebook from the class.  The only time a parent can see them is at parent/teacher conference time or at the end of the year when they are released to bring them home.  That's bullshit.  We have an online system where we can track our children's grades, but that is all it is.  It might be a 95 or a 59.  You have no idea what the lesson was, what kind of questions or problems were on the paper and why they had a problem that resulted in a 59 instead of a 95.  Add to that that some teachers don't update the online system for weeks and all of a sudden you find out your child has a D in a class because they struggled with a concept 3 weeks ago and it is too late to address.  Our taxes pay for our schools and our children's education.  Expecting timely feedback on progress is not being a pain in the ass to the school system or teachers.  Samson has a reasonable request and has gotten nothing but a bureaucratic run around all semester long.  You obviously have no children or have no interest in your children's education if you can't understand the issue in this thread.  All you've done thru this whole thread is take cheap personal shots at Samson because you've got some sort of vindictive hard on for him.  Consider this the last time I will waste any time "confronting" the fuckwad you are.  But I'll continue to neg you if you continue to be a douche.


----------



## sangha

It looks like the coward finally worked up the stones to actually post something. Too bad the delicate flower has to be encouraged into the light. 



kwc57 said:


> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> kwc is such a pussy that s/he negged me for this post, but is too scared to post in this thread. She doesn't have the balls to confront me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The important line in Samsons' post
> 
> 
> God forbid samson be burdened by the childs' education.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I negged you because you are an ignorant fuckwad who has some personal thing for Samson.  I've confronted you multiple times in this thread concerning your douchebaggery.  To confront you again wouldn't serve any purpose because you'll just continue to be an unreasonable douche.  Samson didn't dreate a job.  They already have someone filling the role and that person will now do what the lazy assed public servants wuldn't do......provide reasonable feedback to a parent about their child's progress.  It isn't a matter of Samson's child not bringing papers home, it's a matter of papers not being returned to the student to be able to bring them home and the teacher still not providing graded papers to a parent when asked......but you already knew that if you actually read the thread.  My son is a senior this year and I haven't seen a single school paper since 6th grade.  They keep notebooks that they have to put their returned papers in and they are not allowed to remove the notebook from the class.  The only time a parent can see them is at parent/teacher conference time or at the end of the year when they are released to bring them home.  That's bullshit.  We have an online system where we can track our children's grades, but that is all it is.  It might be a 95 or a 59.  You have no idea what the lesson was, what kind of questions or problems were on the paper and why they had a problem that resulted in a 59 instead of a 95.  Add to that that some teachers don't update the online system for weeks and all of a sudden you find out your child has a D in a class because they struggled with a concept 3 weeks ago and it is too late to address.  Our taxes pay for our schools and our children's education.  Expecting timely feedback on progress is not being a pain in the ass to the school system or teachers.  Samson has a reasonable request and has gotten nothing but a bureaucratic run around all semester long.  You obviously have no children or have no interest in your children's education if you can't understand the issue in this thread.  All you've done thru this whole thread is take cheap personal shots at Samson because you've got some sort of vindictive hard on for him.  Consider this the last time I will waste any time "confronting" the fuckwad you are.  But I'll continue to neg you if you continue to be a douche.
Click to expand...


----------



## kwc57

sangha said:


> It looks like the coward finally worked up the stones to actually post something. Too bad the delicate flower has to be encouraged into the light.
> 
> 
> 
> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> kwc is such a pussy that s/he negged me for this post, but is too scared to post in this thread. She doesn't have the balls to confront me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I negged you because you are an ignorant fuckwad who has some personal thing for Samson.  I've confronted you multiple times in this thread concerning your douchebaggery.  To confront you again wouldn't serve any purpose because you'll just continue to be an unreasonable douche.  Samson didn't dreate a job.  They already have someone filling the role and that person will now do what the lazy assed public servants wuldn't do......provide reasonable feedback to a parent about their child's progress.  It isn't a matter of Samson's child not bringing papers home, it's a matter of papers not being returned to the student to be able to bring them home and the teacher still not providing graded papers to a parent when asked......but you already knew that if you actually read the thread.  My son is a senior this year and I haven't seen a single school paper since 6th grade.  They keep notebooks that they have to put their returned papers in and they are not allowed to remove the notebook from the class.  The only time a parent can see them is at parent/teacher conference time or at the end of the year when they are released to bring them home.  That's bullshit.  We have an online system where we can track our children's grades, but that is all it is.  It might be a 95 or a 59.  You have no idea what the lesson was, what kind of questions or problems were on the paper and why they had a problem that resulted in a 59 instead of a 95.  Add to that that some teachers don't update the online system for weeks and all of a sudden you find out your child has a D in a class because they struggled with a concept 3 weeks ago and it is too late to address.  Our taxes pay for our schools and our children's education.  Expecting timely feedback on progress is not being a pain in the ass to the school system or teachers.  Samson has a reasonable request and has gotten nothing but a bureaucratic run around all semester long.  You obviously have no children or have no interest in your children's education if you can't understand the issue in this thread.  All you've done thru this whole thread is take cheap personal shots at Samson because you've got some sort of vindictive hard on for him.  Consider this the last time I will waste any time "confronting" the fuckwad you are.  But I'll continue to neg you if you continue to be a douche.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


I would point out that you're a moron as I wasn't encouraged into the light.  A simple sampling of the pages of this thread by anyone of average intelligence will show that I've posted many, many consistent posts in this thread.....but naturally, it would go over your little pinhead as usual.  Oh yeah, you might want to hold off on neg repping someone until you can do better than -8 points.  That's kind of like a mouse trying to fuck an elephant.  You might get off, but the elephant is totally unaware that anything happened.   Dipshit.


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## sangha

YOu may have posted in this thread, but you were still too chicken to confront me until I posted about your cowardly behavior


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## kwc57

sangha said:


> YOu may have posted in this thread, but you were still too chicken to confront me until I posted about your cowardly behavior



and you're still a douchebag with troll behavior


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## IanC

Samson may have been a pain in the ass to his son's school but you can be sure that everyone there now knows that you can't ignore concerned parents every time with no repercussions.

I thought parental participation was supposed to be the panacea to improve schools? Hahaha, I guess that only pertains to some other type of parent eh?


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## sangha

IanC said:


> Samson may have been a pain in the ass to his son's school but you can be sure that everyone there now knows that you can't ignore concerned parents every time with no repercussions.
> 
> I thought parental participation was supposed to be the panacea to improve schools? Hahaha, I guess that only pertains to some other type of parent eh?



Ummm, since there were no repercussions from Samsons' whining, I have no idea why you think the teachers learned anything about repercussions


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## saveliberty

Samson said:


> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've always taught elementary, but I certainly would like to know what my son was doing in the upper grades as well.  Didn't have that problem.  I would just tell the teachers if you can't send the papers home each week, I will come on Monday after school after you have graded them on the weekend to see exactly what he missed and we will be going over them the following week.  See you on Mondays.
> 
> And show up each MOnday after school and wait for their excuses.  Document what they say and make your appointment with the Superintendent if you don't find common ground with the principal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd love to do this, but the burden then becomes as much mine as anyone.
> 
> At any rate, after the meeting with the district, they have offered, in writing, sent by certified mail, a satisfactory solution:
> 
> A school employee, a Paper-Gathering Specialist, will collect specimens of my kid's work on a weekly basis from all his teachers, and will send this home with my kid on Friday.
Click to expand...


Gee, our school used to send a book home every night.  In it you would find a list of all the assignments the kid was supposed to be completing that evening.  You had to sign off that you had read the book at night.  Also, you knew that every Friday a sample of the student's work would be coming home from every class.  No paper-gathering specialist or (gasp) computer needed.


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## sangha

saveliberty said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've always taught elementary, but I certainly would like to know what my son was doing in the upper grades as well.  Didn't have that problem.  I would just tell the teachers if you can't send the papers home each week, I will come on Monday after school after you have graded them on the weekend to see exactly what he missed and we will be going over them the following week.  See you on Mondays.
> 
> And show up each MOnday after school and wait for their excuses.  Document what they say and make your appointment with the Superintendent if you don't find common ground with the principal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd love to do this, but the burden then becomes as much mine as anyone.
> 
> At any rate, after the meeting with the district, they have offered, in writing, sent by certified mail, a satisfactory solution:
> 
> A school employee, a Paper-Gathering Specialist, will collect specimens of my kid's work on a weekly basis from all his teachers, and will send this home with my kid on Friday.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gee, our school used to send a book home every night.  In it you would find a list of all the assignments the kid was supposed to be completing that evening.  You had to sign off that you had read the book at night.  Also, you knew that every Friday a sample of the student's work would be coming home from every class.  No paper-gathering specialist or (gasp) computer needed.
Click to expand...


Samsons kid is receiving every graded assignment. The school is doing everything it is supposed. The problem is that Samson can't get his kid to bring the graded work home for Samson to see, so he's trying to blame the school for his own failure to teach his kid how to bring the work home.

BTW there's no such thing as a paper gathering specialist. Samson made that up to hide his total failure. His kid is still not bringing home the work, and the teachers aren't complying with his demands


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## saveliberty

Sangha, your on ignore.  I could care less if you agree or disagree.  Just go away.


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## sangha

saveliberty said:


> Sangha, your on ignore.  I could care less if you agree or disagree.  Just go away.



I'm not going anywhere, and if you had me on ignore, how did you read my post? And if you don't care, why are you responding to me?


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## kwc57

sangha said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd love to do this, but the burden then becomes as much mine as anyone.
> 
> At any rate, after the meeting with the district, they have offered, in writing, sent by certified mail, a satisfactory solution:
> 
> A school employee, a Paper-Gathering Specialist, will collect specimens of my kid's work on a weekly basis from all his teachers, and will send this home with my kid on Friday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, our school used to send a book home every night.  In it you would find a list of all the assignments the kid was supposed to be completing that evening.  You had to sign off that you had read the book at night.  Also, you knew that every Friday a sample of the student's work would be coming home from every class.  No paper-gathering specialist or (gasp) computer needed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Samsons kid is receiving every graded assignment. The school is doing everything it is supposed. The problem is that Samson can't get his kid to bring the graded work home for Samson to see, so he's trying to blame the school for his own failure to teach his kid how to bring the work home.
> 
> BTW there's no such thing as a paper gathering specialist. Samson made that up to hide his total failure. His kid is still not bringing home the work, and the teachers aren't complying with his demands
Click to expand...


You're an asshat and a liar.


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## sangha

kwc57 said:


> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, our school used to send a book home every night.  In it you would find a list of all the assignments the kid was supposed to be completing that evening.  You had to sign off that you had read the book at night.  Also, you knew that every Friday a sample of the student's work would be coming home from every class.  No paper-gathering specialist or (gasp) computer needed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samsons kid is receiving every graded assignment. The school is doing everything it is supposed. The problem is that Samson can't get his kid to bring the graded work home for Samson to see, so he's trying to blame the school for his own failure to teach his kid how to bring the work home.
> 
> BTW there's no such thing as a paper gathering specialist. Samson made that up to hide his total failure. His kid is still not bringing home the work, and the teachers aren't complying with his demands
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're an asshat and a liar.
Click to expand...


I see that Samsons' poodle has to piddle and can't hold it in


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## Samson

kwc57 said:


> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, our school used to send a book home every night.  In it you would find a list of all the assignments the kid was supposed to be completing that evening.  You had to sign off that you had read the book at night.  Also, you knew that every Friday a sample of the student's work would be coming home from every class.  No paper-gathering specialist or (gasp) computer needed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samsons kid is receiving every graded assignment. The school is doing everything it is supposed. The problem is that Samson can't get his kid to bring the graded work home for Samson to see, so he's trying to blame the school for his own failure to teach his kid how to bring the work home.
> 
> BTW there's no such thing as a paper gathering specialist. Samson made that up to hide his total failure. His kid is still not bringing home the work, and the teachers aren't complying with his demands
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're an asshat and a liar.
Click to expand...





Appreciate the discussion with the many of you who have provided some interesting POV.

I'd also hope that if anyone at USMB has a problem with a public school, then they may learn from this thread that all school systems have a procedure for reconciling parental concerns, but it will take persistance and gathering evidence to move them to change. I have successfully advocated for my son, and the school has complied.

If any of you would like to continue the poo flinging at Shagnone in this thread, then be my guest. Frankly it would be much more interesting to see what sort of thread Shagnone could start in the Education Forum that would hold any significance to anyone.

But he/she/it won't.

With that, I'm unsubscribing from the thread (again).


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## IanC

Samson said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Samsons kid is receiving every graded assignment. The school is doing everything it is supposed. The problem is that Samson can't get his kid to bring the graded work home for Samson to see, so he's trying to blame the school for his own failure to teach his kid how to bring the work home.
> 
> BTW there's no such thing as a paper gathering specialist. Samson made that up to hide his total failure. His kid is still not bringing home the work, and the teachers aren't complying with his demands
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're an asshat and a liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Appreciate the discussion with the many of you who have provided some interesting POV.
> 
> I'd also hope that if anyone at USMB has a problem with a public school, then they may learn from this thread that all school systems have a procedure for reconciling parental concerns, but it will take persistance and gathering evidence to move them to change. I have successfully advocated for my son, and the school has complied.
> 
> If any of you would like to continue the poo flinging at Shagnone in this thread, then be my guest. Frankly it would be much more interesting to see what sort of thread Shagnone could start in the Education Forum that would hold any significance to anyone.
> 
> But he/she/it won't.
> 
> With that, I'm unsubscribing from the thread (again).
Click to expand...



as someone who has taken up issues with schools and schoolboards I would like to second Samson's call to become involved. many improvements can be made simply by making the problems known. no problem was ever solved by everybody ignoring it.


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