# Why was America attacked on September 11, 2001?



## Dante (Apr 23, 2013)

*Why was America attacked on September 11, 2001?*

What were the reasons given and what are your thoughts on why a bunch of foreigners decided to attack America.?

It is agreed that al qaeda started to take credit for attacks America starting in 1992. We can go back and ask why America was being attacked overseas by Muslim extremists.

Context has a funny way of making commonly accepted myths and beliefs seem like quaint delusions. 



Two decades ago it all started. I wonder how many people know the full context of it all


----------



## Dante (Apr 23, 2013)

> On December 29, 1992,[1] the first attack by Al-Qaeda was carried out in Aden, Yemen.[2][3][4] That evening, a bomb went off at the Gold Mohur hotel, where U.S. troops had been staying while en route to Somalia, though the troops had already left when the bomb exploded. The bombers targeted a second hotel, the Aden Movenpick, where they believed American troops might also be staying. That bomb detonated prematurely in the hotel car park, around the same time as the other bomb explosion, killing two Australian tourists.[1][3] Bin Laden later claimed that he and Mohamed Khan were responsible for the 1992 Yemen attack


 Timeline of al-Qaeda attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> -- Dec. 29, 1992
> 
> In the first al-Qaida attack against U.S. forces, operatives bomb a hotel where U.S. troops -- on their way to a humanitarian mission in Somalia -- had been staying. Two Austrian tourists are killed.  Almost simultaneously, another group of al-Qaida operatives are caught at Aden airport, Yemen, as they prepare to launch rockets at U.S. military planes.  U.S. troops quickly leave Aden.
> 
> ...


 Al-Qaida timeline: Plots and attacks - World news - Hunt for Al-Qaida | NBC News


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Apr 23, 2013)

Dante said:


> *Why was America attacked on September 11, 2001?*
> 
> What were the reasons given and what are your thoughts on why a bunch of foreigners decided to attack America.?
> 
> ...



True. 

9/11 wasnt the beginning of anything, but one of a series of attacks over the years, dating back to Munich and earlier.


----------



## Dante (Apr 23, 2013)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > *Why was America attacked on September 11, 2001?*
> ...



Munich? How so?


----------



## Dugdale_Jukes (Apr 23, 2013)

Dante said:


> *Why was America attacked on September 11, 2001?*
> 
> [and]
> 
> ...what are your thoughts on why a bunch of foreigners decided to attack America.?



Could it be that since 1980 foreigners have been God's agents, punishing America for electing the most degenerate gaggles of internationally meddling scum in the history of democracy in Western civilization?


----------



## L.K.Eder (Apr 23, 2013)

because of their freedoms


----------



## Dante (Apr 23, 2013)

L.K.Eder said:


> because of their freedoms


----------



## Dante (Apr 23, 2013)

Dugdale_Jukes said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > *Why was America attacked on September 11, 2001?*
> ...


----------



## Dante (Apr 23, 2013)

If you are new here: Not too many members at USMB are capable of discussing historical events in a context outside or ideological rantings


----------



## Dante (Apr 24, 2013)

Why did people attack America?


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 24, 2013)

Their religion.  Islam.  According to them we are the great satan and Israel is the little satan.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 24, 2013)

*Why was America attacked on September 11, 2001?*


Because Dainty is a stupidfuck.


----------



## skye (Apr 24, 2013)

Also, radical Islam attacked   us  because they have to convert all infidels.


----------



## LoudMcCloud (Apr 24, 2013)

To invoke the Patriot Act and Martial law.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 24, 2013)

Jeremiah said:


> Their religion.  Islam.  According to them we are the great satan and Israel is the little satan.



Yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that Dainty is a stupidfuck,


----------



## Dante (Apr 24, 2013)

Wow!  Isn't it hilarious how the right can't form a single rational and coherent argument as to why America was attacked?


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 24, 2013)

Dante said:


> Wow!  Isn't it hilarious how the right can't form a single rational and coherent argument as to why America was attacked?



See #12


----------



## Dante (Apr 24, 2013)

Right Wingers are soooooooooooooooooooo good at Scrabble.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 24, 2013)

Dante said:


> Wow!  Isn't it hilarious how the right can't form a single rational and coherent argument as to why America was attacked?



We gave you the answer.  Islam.  Why is it that you cannot accept the obvious truth?  There is no other motive behind 9/11. It wasn't an inside job, George Bush didn't do it, it was the work of Muslims waging jihad against America. 

Stop trying to overthink it.   


 You're obviously wearing yourself out here.   It is what it is.


----------



## Dante (Apr 24, 2013)

Right Wing Imbecility 101

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA
When you rearrange the letters:
STRUGGLING INCOMPETENT LIAR


too funny


----------



## Dante (Apr 24, 2013)

Jeremiah said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Wow!  Isn't it hilarious how the right can't form a single rational and coherent argument as to why America was attacked?
> ...



Inside job? Bush did it? Where does your little mind go when the lights are out? 

Islam? Islamic radicals are attempting to force a particular version of Islam on other Muslims. What has that to do with the USA?


----------



## yidnar (Apr 24, 2013)

Dante said:


> *Why was America attacked on September 11, 2001?*
> 
> What were the reasons given and what are your thoughts on why a bunch of foreigners decided to attack America.?
> 
> ...


they were angry because we set up shop in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia .


----------



## emilynghiem (Apr 24, 2013)

Dante said:


> *Why was America attacked on September 11, 2001?*
> 
> What were the reasons given and what are your thoughts on why a bunch of foreigners decided to attack America.?
> 
> ...



People who are tired of seeing or suffering from oppression in the world
can either choose to forgive, see that responsiblity and faults are shared,
and work with the peaceful reformists in various groups who
recognize the same faults with humanity and society, yet work for change sustainably

OR stay angry, frustrated, can't forgive, feel jealous and even take up arms
to rebel and protest whatever person or group they blame for the problems

whichever groups conspired to cause 9/11 did not have the same faith in or
access to connections solving the problems of disparity or corruption
they blame on the global economic system which they see as favoring the US, Israel and the Jewish/Christian capitalistic powers and influences.

The World Trade Towers symbolized not only this economic system the attackers felt left out of, but also was a visible target to send a public message, an outcry of protest 
against the problems and whoever they blamed for it

Basically it was twisted cry for help

and it came out as an attack by anti-US terrorists
who don't have the freedom of speech and access to resources
we have to effect change in positive ways

if the oppressed countries were getting help fast enough to change,
and the people had adequate publicity and process for petitioning
then protests would be peaceable. but change wasn't happening fast enough,
so the men jealous over who is abusing power compete to bring down the top dog.

had America and the world been perfect, where everyone was working together forgiving
and correcting problems, then no attacks would occur in such a healing environment

but America was also distracted and divided politically with people on all sides
complaining about govt and not forgiving the other parties blamed back and forth etc.

So this divisive political environment allowed the plotting and attacks to go through undetected and unthwarted in the din, riding on that negative cloud of energy
connecting angry thoughts and ill will towards others like a circuit.

Nobody on this planet did enough to prevent 9/11 from happening as it did

the common cause was unforgiveness, fear and division that contributed
to why it wasn't detected or stopped in time. there was political division
and hateful energy circulating on both sides.

People who are jealous and unforgiving of what they perceive as injustice
will use their negative energy to protest in disruptive ways

while those who forgive and see how responsibility for change is shared
will find creative ways to solve the problems and change the world for better

these men did not have that forgiveness
so they did not see a better way to "petition for change"

they really believed they were sacrificing themselves for God's greater will
to send this msg to America and the world that the abuse of globalization 
was selfish in its materialism and oppression of the poor being enslaved, 
and really believe the sacrifice was necessary

the cycle of oppression and projected blame will continue until
everyone is made humble by faith in forgiveness and cooperation across groups
and chooses to change things peaceably by mutual agreement, in an open and inclusive
environment accepting of differences, where there is no longer any need
to compete with greater threat of force and bullying by coersion or by exclusion

9/11 was like a wakeup call, where all the anger and blame came out in the open. And where we progress from there will determine if we need other calls, or we get the message that we need to work smarter and faster to solve problems in the world together, and no longer need alarms going off as a reminder that people are still suffering and aggrieved.


----------



## Dante (Apr 24, 2013)

yidnar said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > *Why was America attacked on September 11, 2001?*
> ...



That is part of the al qaeda OBL line. If we go with OBL, where did we ever get he wanted to attack us because of our freedoms?


----------



## Dante (Apr 24, 2013)

emilynghiem said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > *Why was America attacked on September 11, 2001?*
> ...



Too much psychobabble here. Can you state a few facts without twisting them to fit your theories/thesis? It would go a long way towards helping people to take you seriously


----------



## emilynghiem (Apr 24, 2013)

Dante said:


> Right Wing Imbecility 101
> 
> PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA
> When you rearrange the letters:
> ...



Here are some anagrams by Neil Ramsey on alt.anagrams:

"US Constitution, Second Amendment: 
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free 
State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be 
infringed."

= 

"Indeed, but is the blatant massacre of the teenage American students 
killed by the loner Cho Seung-Hui's relentless weapon a fitting, 
legitimate price to pay for freedom or not?" 

= 

"Cho Seung-Hui, Loner: 
He demonstrates by the killing of teenage American students that a 
great price must often be paid for idealistic entitlement to bear 
freely-sold weapons."


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Apr 24, 2013)

Dante said:


> *Why was America attacked on September 11, 2001?*
> 
> What were the reasons given and what are your thoughts on why a bunch of foreigners decided to attack America.?
> 
> ...



Because wacakdoodles are crazy.


----------



## emilynghiem (Apr 24, 2013)

Dante said:


> Too much psychobabble here. Can you state a few facts without twisting them to fit your theories/thesis? It would go a long way towards helping people to take you seriously



Sorry Dante I will ask Derideo for help to translate into Eurolinear English...


----------



## petro (Apr 24, 2013)

One reason...Religious Intolerance...
We are Infidels. It is not just America that is being attacked, but anyone that doesn't conform to a narrow definition of Islam worldwide. They attack people within their own religion that they also see as unfit as they may hold a more moderate view and perhaps a western view of Islam, resorting to sectarian violence. The goal is to convert the entire world to this radical viewpoint and kill anyone who doesn't conform. 
America and it's policies is just a convenient excuse. We could change our entire policy and we will still have a target on our back.


----------



## Dante (Apr 24, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > *Why was America attacked on September 11, 2001?*
> ...



So your premise is OBL was whacky? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


----------



## Dante (Apr 24, 2013)

petro said:


> One reason...Religious Intolerance...
> We are Infidels. It is not just America that is being attacked, but anyone that doesn't conform to a narrow definition of Islam worldwide. They attack people within their own religion that they also see as unfit as they may hold a more moderate view and perhaps a western view of Islam, resorting to sectarian violence. The goal is to convert the entire world to this radical viewpoint and kill anyone who doesn't conform.
> America and it's policies is just a convenient excuse. We could change our entire policy and we will still have a target on our back.



The war is within Islam. There is no real war on the world. Extreme Arab Sects within Islam have been fighting to push their views on to the rest of Islam. The USA, Israel and the West have nothing to do with teaching Islam.

Your fear and loathing would be hilarious if it weren't so pathetically ignorant. And you are arrogant in your ignorance. A deadly thing for a small mind like yours


----------



## petro (Apr 24, 2013)

Dante said:


> petro said:
> 
> 
> > One reason...Religious Intolerance...
> ...



What a load of crap. If the war is just within Islam that is where it should remain.


----------



## whitehall (Apr 24, 2013)

Did the "greatest generation" obsess about the cause of the "day of infamy". FDR couldn't give a speech for four years without referring to the attack he invited.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 24, 2013)

Dante said:


> * Why was America attacked on September 11, 2001?*
> 
> What were the reasons given and what are your thoughts on why a bunch of foreigners decided to attack America.?
> 
> ...



*Why was America attacked on September 11, 2001?*

For the same reason Boston was attacked on April 15, 2013.


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 24, 2013)

According to KSM, we were attacked because of our un-conditional support of Israel.


----------



## freedombecki (Apr 24, 2013)

Dante said:


> *Why was America attacked on September 11, 2001?*
> 
> What were the reasons given and what are your thoughts on why a bunch of foreigners decided to attack America.?
> 
> ...


 Historians typically show that the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan triggered Islamic Terrorism moement. I wonder if YOU understand the full contest of it all.

Why are you so eager to discredit the United States, Dante? Did your chewing gum lose its flavor on the bedpost overnight? Awwww...


----------



## yidnar (Apr 24, 2013)

Islam and Conflict


----------



## petro (Apr 24, 2013)

Osama bin Laden signed and issued a Declaration of Jihad entitled "Message from Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Laden to His Muslim Brothers in the Whole World and Especially in the Arabian Peninsula: Declaration of Jihad Against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Mosques; Expel the Heretics from the Arabian Peninsula."
Although bin Laden was already very much involved in anti-American activities, the declaration marked an effort to publicly justify planned and unplanned violence against the United States.

Ayatollah Khomeini in Iran when he replaced oppressive rule with oppressive rule declared the US the Great Satan.

 Hezbollah pioneered the use of suicide bombers in the Middle East, and was linked to the 1983 bombing and subsequent deaths of 241 U.S. marines in Beirut, Lebanon, as well as multiple kidnappings of U.S. and Western civilians and government officials.

These are only a few of the many examples dating back through the 1970's, but Dante would spout that it is only a war within Islam.  Bullshit!!. What about attacks in Britain, Spain, Russia, France, Israel, and recently Canada thwarted an effort to derail trains. Muslims have been victims in some of these indiscriminate  attacks in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Israel, Iraq and even NY on 9/11. The list is endless. Pretty much shows a worldwide effort not confined just within Islam.


----------



## Dante (Apr 24, 2013)

freedombecki said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > *Why was America attacked on September 11, 2001?*
> ...



How very odd you see a discrediting of the USA in what you've read.  You are truly a sad individual 

The Russians gave us lots, Ayn Rand, crazy asylum seekers who have taken America so far to the right they could trigger what they fear most


----------



## Mr. H. (Apr 24, 2013)

Jooz.


----------



## Dante (Apr 24, 2013)

whitehall said:


> Did the "greatest generation" obsess about the cause of the "day of infamy". FDR couldn't give a speech for four years without referring to the attack he invited.



Look what the right wing says?


----------



## eots (Apr 24, 2013)

LoudMcCloud said:


> To invoke the Patriot Act and Martial law.



Indeed


----------



## freedombecki (Apr 25, 2013)

Dante said:


> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...


 Me sad? Sorry, Dante, but I've been following the tale of jihadists for many years, having read Secretary of State Madeline Albright's state department notes, and Russian aggression into Afghanistan as being a bellweather for more Stalinesque peace killings than the previous tens of millions of deaths Russia inflicted on more citizens it had conquest over. Had you been aware of the number of Russian deaths due to bolshevism, you would have realized a lot of terroristic antagonism toward the West began not in this hemisphere, but another.

Stop discrediting the USA. Because of us, the Middle East has learned every last one of our tricks for extracting oil from the depths of the earth and become one of the richest entities in the world. In return, we gave up our holdings in the countries in which the Arab countries requested it without war. It wasn't until our best allies in the region--Kuwait and Israel were threatened continuously by Saddam Hussein that we went postal. We paid attention to his numbers of killings, and indeed, he was even worse than Osama bin Laden, and President Bush saw to it he did not get away with a million and a half Arab murders unpunished. Yes, it was an inconvenient thing for him to rally 40 other countries, and at one time, over 60 countries, to form a coalition against him, but it had to be done to stop the ethnic cleansing Saddam Hussein was doing.

You got what you wanted. Democrats in congress saw to it that we would NEVER benefit financially in any way from this discipline measure we took, and that we would only pay. YOU did that, and now, we can't even pay all the interest on the loans made for that war and Obama's war on conservatives, whom he called his "enemies" for the past 5 years.

Since YOU Democrats saw to it to hobble the nation from any good will or spoils of the war, YOU failed to prosper the country except to enrich your top politicians by looking the other way and threatening conservatives to watch Nancy Pelosi's family fortune rise from two million to upwards of 900 million dollars in net worth if you include all the benefits she's bestowed on family members whose benefits totaled anywhere from half a billion in the case of Solyndra and a goodly chunk of the 1.3 billion in similar 100% guaranteed paybacks via the American taxpayer for her little green company in the desert making products that couldn't possibly compete with innovative competitors in China, who wound up purchasing the mess for a song, while her relatives walked away with full pockets with interest on businesses that went bankrupt.

Don't lecture me, pal. You're covering butt for creeps who view other taxpayers as abject suckers in the PT Barnum sense of the word.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Apr 25, 2013)

We were attacked because of more than a half century of failed foreign policy and interference in the Middle East.

We have jumped into bed with more people than a $2 whore in any bid to gain influence and control in the region.

It's no mystery as to why we are disliked.


----------



## Dante (Apr 25, 2013)

freedombecki said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > freedombecki said:
> ...



Democrats? No one is discrediting the USA. You are the nut job that is being discredited.  You sound as nutty as Ayn Rand, without the intellect


----------



## Dante (Apr 25, 2013)

Skull Pilot said:


> We were attacked because of more than a half century of failed foreign policy and interference in the Middle East.
> 
> We have jumped into bed with more people than a $2 whore in any bid to gain influence and control in the region.
> 
> It's no mystery as to why we are disliked.



I agree partly. The facts are difficult to ignore. But your opinion of it all being 'failure' is just that, an opinion. And a poor one as far as I see it. Not being an isolationist, I don't think we had many choices as far as the geopolitics of the era. To insinuate another choice would have better rather than different would be to delve deep into ignorance. What happened?

Life is always full of unintended consequences. No matter what we chose to do, we would have suffered unintended consequences. Life is all about _how_ we deal with things that come our way, not about how we would like _to make_ things happen ..


----------



## freedombecki (Apr 25, 2013)

Dante said:


> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...


 You're just wrong, Mr. Dante, and here's your soul-mate:

Democratic Congresswoman Maxine Waters ~ "As far as I'm concerned, the Tea Party can go straight to hell ... and I intend to help them get there." 





 
​


----------



## Zona (Apr 25, 2013)

Why was America attacked on September 11, 2001?

Isnt it obvious, its because of Obama.


----------



## Zona (Apr 25, 2013)

freedombecki said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > freedombecki said:
> ...



This is obviously a direct threat on thier lives.  She is gangsta and all.


----------



## Political Junky (Apr 25, 2013)

Motives for the September 11 attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The attacks of September 11, 2001 in the northeast United States were an organized terrorist act carried out by 19 hijackers, and organized by numerous members of al-Qaeda. Motives for the attacks were stated before and after the attacks in several sources, iOsama bin Laden's declaration of a holy war against the United States, and a fatw&#257; signed by bin Laden and others calling for the killing of American civilians in 1998, are seen by investigators as evidence of his motivation.[2] In bin Laden's November 2002 "Letter to America",[3][4] he explicitly stated that al-Qaeda's motives for their attacks include: Western support for attacking Muslims in Somalia, supporting Russian atrocities against Muslims in Chechnya, supporting the Indian oppression against Muslims in Kashmir, the Jewish aggression against Muslims in Lebanon, the presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia,[4][5][6] U.S. support of Israel,[7][8] and sanctions against Iraq.[9]


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Aug 24, 2013)

LoudMcCloud said:


> To invoke the Patriot Act and Martial law.



that sums it all up right there why it happened.

also so the corporations could profit.war means big buisness for them,thats why the CIA killed JFK cause he was going to pull out of vietnam.LBj reversed his policy and esculated the war.same organization behind 9/11 for same reasons as well as the patriot act like he said.


----------



## Dante (Sep 18, 2013)

Political Junky said:


> Motives for the September 11 attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> The attacks of September 11, 2001 in the northeast United States were an organized terrorist act carried out by 19 hijackers, and organized by numerous members of al-Qaeda. Motives for the attacks were stated before and after the attacks in several sources, iOsama bin Laden's declaration of a holy war against the United States, and a fatw&#257; signed by bin Laden and others calling for the killing of American civilians in 1998, are seen by investigators as evidence of his motivation.[2] In bin Laden's November 2002 "Letter to America",[3][4] he explicitly stated that al-Qaeda's motives for their attacks include: Western support for attacking Muslims in Somalia, supporting Russian atrocities against Muslims in Chechnya, supporting the Indian oppression against Muslims in Kashmir, the Jewish aggression against Muslims in Lebanon, the presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia,[4][5][6] U.S. support of Israel,[7][8] and sanctions against Iraq.[9]


The irrational acts and reasoning of a madman?


----------



## Dante (Sep 18, 2013)

Deserves repeating...



Dante said:


> *Why was America attacked on September 11, 2001?*
> 
> What were the reasons given and what are your thoughts on why a bunch of foreigners decided to attack America.?
> 
> ...





Dante said:


> > On December 29, 1992,[1] the first attack by Al-Qaeda was carried out in Aden, Yemen.[2][3][4] That evening, a bomb went off at the Gold Mohur hotel, where U.S. troops had been staying while en route to Somalia, though the troops had already left when the bomb exploded. The bombers targeted a second hotel, the Aden Movenpick, where they believed American troops might also be staying. That bomb detonated prematurely in the hotel car park, around the same time as the other bomb explosion, killing two Australian tourists.[1][3] Bin Laden later claimed that he and Mohamed Khan were responsible for the 1992 Yemen attack
> 
> 
> Timeline of al-Qaeda attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> ...


----------



## MikeK (Sep 18, 2013)

Billo_Really said:


> According to KSM, we were attacked because of our un-conditional support of Israel.


(Excerpt)

[Excerpted from PBS Frontline (John Miller) 1998 interview with Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan.  
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[. . .]_*We know at least one reason behind the symbolic participation of the Western forces and that is to support the Zionist plans for expansion of what is called the Greater Israel. Surely, their presence is not out of concern over their interests in the region. ... Their presence has no meaning save one and that is to offer support to the Jews in Palestine who are in need of their Christian brothers to achieve full control over the Arab Peninsula which they intend to make an important part of the so called Greater Israel. ...*_

Who Is Bin Laden? - Interview With Osama Bin Laden (in May 1998) | Hunting Bin Laden | FRONTLINE | PBS 

(Close


----------



## Dante (Sep 18, 2013)

ONE reason among many? Hmmm, appears luke throw shit against a wall and see what sticks 

Why do posters here @ usmb appear so gullible and willing to accept simplistic bs?


----------



## hjmick (Sep 18, 2013)

I thought we attacked because of Dante...


----------



## daveman (Sep 18, 2013)

Oh, good Gaea, will someone please say "America deserved it!!" so Dante can do his little victory dance?


----------



## Rozman (Sep 18, 2013)

Because these radical scum like living in the stone age.
And they hate anyone who doesn't want to hang out with them.


----------



## Dante (Sep 18, 2013)

Poor [MENTION=23991]daveman[/MENTION] he thinks Americans he disagrees with have to hate America?

Me thinks the chopper mechanic sniffed too much chems with his booze


----------



## R.C. Christian (Sep 18, 2013)

Because someone was trying to drive a foreign policy change that benefits the U.S., Israel, Saudi Arabia and various other filth. Ultimately it was about money and the empire building necessary to create that wealth.


----------



## Dante (Sep 18, 2013)

burrrrp....  edit:


Rozman said:


> Because these radical scum like living in the stone age.
> And they hate anyone who doesn't want to hang out with them.



Unlike the irrational drunkard known as  [MENTION=23991]daveman[/MENTION], you may be onto something.

Funny how the sad lonely types here @ usmb are always projecting their self loathing onto others


----------



## daveman (Sep 19, 2013)

Dante said:


> Poor [MENTION=23991]daveman[/MENTION] he thinks Americans he disagrees with have to hate America?
> 
> Me thinks the chopper mechanic sniffed too much chems with his booze



If I were chemically altered, I'd agree with you, dumbass.


----------



## rightwinger (Sep 19, 2013)

I think it had something to do with they resent our freedom


----------



## gipper (Sep 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> I think it had something to do with they resent our freedom



It had nothing to do with that.  That is what the statist Bush promoted to the American people as the reason.  It is total BS.

And really...we Americans are losing our freedoms every day as our government grows bigger and more powerful.

It had to do with their fanatical beliefs and our government's constant interventions in the ME.


----------



## rdean (Sep 19, 2013)

How soon they forget.  

When Iraq invaded Kuwait, the Middle Eastern Muslims asked the US for help.  Bin Laden wanted to be a "player" and head a coalition to drive out Saddam but the rest of the Muslims preferred the US.  They knew America could do it and they didn't want to make Bin Laden a hero.

Bin Laden felt he had been snubbed and that westerners killing Arabs and Muslims in the Middle Eastern holy lands was an insult too great, so he "got even".

The US did the right thing.  We were asked by allies in the region for help and to fight back an invasion.  This was done quickly and with little loss of life.  Bush Sr. stopped at the border of Iraq because he knew the cost of nation building and put overhead satellites in place to watch Saddam and sanctions as punishment for what Iraq had done.

The fault of 9/11 was Bin Laden for feeling "dissed".  The US did the right thing helping Kuwait.

If you help someone out of a burning car and someone walked up and shot you for helping them, is it your fault for helping them or the fault of the shooter you were shot.  Clearly, the fault of the shooter.  What you did was humanitarian.

Today's Republicans feel every man for himself so they may not understand that.


----------



## MikeK (Sep 19, 2013)

rdean said:


> How soon they forget.
> 
> When Iraq invaded Kuwait, the Middle Eastern Muslims asked the US for help.  Bin Laden wanted to be a "player" and head a coalition to drive out Saddam but the rest of the Muslims preferred the US.  They knew America could do it and they didn't want to make Bin Laden a hero.
> 
> ...


If you will read the transcript of PBS' John Miller's 1998 interview with bin Laden you will see his primary complaints against the U.S. were our support of Israel and the presence of our military base on holy ground in Saudi Arabia.  Further affirmation of these two factors being the provocation for the 9/11 attack is plainly seen in the fact that shortly after that attack Bush promptly removed the _bin Sultan_ airbase from Saudi Arabia and he pressured Sharon to evict hundreds of Israeli settlers from the Gaza region.  Two radical actions, both of which were quietly executed and never mentioned by the compliant mainstream media.

Neo-conservative Bush supporters methodically ignore that very revealing fact when they boast about the absence of further attacks during the remaining Bush Presidency.  

Bin Laden warned us.  Clinton ignored the warning.  So did Bush -- in spite of mounting intelligence alerts to the likelihood of an attack via hijacked passenger aircraft and "suspicious" Muslims taking flying lessons.  Bush was practically told what was coming.  

Bin Laden warned us.  Then he instigated and organized an attack against us.  His reasons are clearly laid out in the transcript of an interview.  I've provided a link to that interview in Message #54 in this thread -- along with a brief and relevant excerpt.  Those who are interested in learning the truth can find it there.


----------



## rightwinger (Sep 19, 2013)

_ Americans are asking ``Why do they hate us?'' 


They hate what they see right here in this chamber: a democratically elected government. Their leaders are self-appointed. They hate our freedoms: our freedom of religion, our freedom of speech, our freedom to vote and assemble and disagree with each other. 

George W Bush, September 20, 2001  _


----------



## Dante (Sep 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> I think it had something to do with they resent our freedom


----------



## Dante (Sep 19, 2013)

rdean said:


> How soon they forget.
> 
> When Iraq invaded Kuwait, the Middle Eastern Muslims asked the US for help.  Bin Laden wanted to be a "player" and head a coalition to drive out Saddam but the rest of the Muslims preferred the US.  They knew America could do it and they didn't want to make Bin Laden a hero.
> 
> ...



Excellent!


----------



## Dante (Sep 19, 2013)

MikeK said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> > How soon they forget.
> ...



Do you always parrot propaganda that supports your world view no matter the obvious truths?

You could quote Hitler's stated reasons for invading neighbors,  Stalin's reasons for enslaving and killing millions, or even the USA's reasons for taking over the Philipines or PR, but you'd just be parroting obvious propaganda


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Sep 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> _ Americans are asking ``Why do they hate us?''
> 
> 
> They hate what they see right here in this chamber: a democratically elected government. Their leaders are self-appointed. They hate our freedoms: our freedom of religion, our freedom of speech, our freedom to vote and assemble and disagree with each other.
> ...



Are you sure Bush wasn't talking about the democratic party?

He could be talking about you or MikeK with that...


----------



## Politico (Sep 19, 2013)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjrZj3GXjoA]South Park Bush´s Conspiracy, 9-11 was an inside job ! - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Dante (Sep 19, 2013)

Dumb videos: thread killers


----------



## bendog (Sep 19, 2013)

I thought the attacks had been proven hoaxes, like the notions of us landing on the moon and George W. Bush being potus for 8 years.


----------



## rightwinger (Sep 19, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > _ Americans are asking ``Why do they hate us?''
> ...



The Democrats actually went after bin Laden unlike Bush, who let him get away

Bush knew that if he killd bin Laden, the US would lose interest and would never approve of his blunder into Iraq

Bin Laden served a purpose. As long as he was alive, Bush could play his 9-11 card


----------



## Dante (Sep 19, 2013)

[MENTION=20321]rightwinger[/MENTION] never really heard that slant before...interesting.

I highly doubt that was the plan, but it is very possible that is how it was used and played out as events and unevents unfolded


----------



## Mushroom (Sep 19, 2013)

Dante said:


> *Why was America attacked on September 11, 2001?*
> 
> What were the reasons given and what are your thoughts on why a bunch of foreigners decided to attack America.?



Much as most people fail to put December 7 in the correct military context, I believe that most fail to see the "full picture' in September 11.

Mostly I see September 11 in much the same way as December 7th:  A great miscalculation as to what the response of the US would be.

From 1996-2001, Afghanistan had been involved in a Civil War, with the Taliban on one side, and the Northern Alliance on the other.  And while the US was technically uninvolved, we were tentatively supporting Ahmad Shah Massoud and the Northern Alliance.

Ahmad Shah Massoud and the US had a relationship going back to the Soviet-Afghan War.  He was the largest recipient of aid from the US, and had a close working relationship with the CIA.  He was also the lynchpin of the Northern Alliance, and the biggest thorn in the Taliban.

And on 9 September 2001 he was assassinated by al-Queda, at the request of the Taliban.

I see this as a part of a one-two punch, intending to give them total control of Afghanistan.  First they assassinate the biggest leader opposing them, then they distract the US so they will not get involved in time to prevent their taking over the country.

They saw the US as weak, impotent, and figured they would not know who to place the blame on, and even if we did would only do like President Clinton did before:  launch a few cruise missiles and declare a victory.


----------



## Dante (Sep 19, 2013)

Mushroom said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > *Why was America attacked on September 11, 2001?*
> ...


Not bad, not bad at all but how does it explain the 'why' on being attacked?

btw. Clarke and others who were there refute your bs line about Clinton declaring victory after launchong cruise missles.

Why did you have to go wingnutty?


----------



## Mushroom (Sep 19, 2013)

Dante said:


> Not bad, not bad at all but how does it explain the 'why' on being attacked?
> 
> btw. Clarke and others who were there refute your bs line about Clinton declaring victory after launchong cruise missles.
> 
> Why did you have to go wingnutty?



As a distraction, and a warning to stay out of the affairs of Afghanistan.  Remember, for almost a decade they had done attack after attack (WTC 1993, Khobar Towers, Somalia, USS Cole), and saw pretty much no response other then a few cruise missiles.  I honestly think that is all they expected to get in return.

And notice I did not say that is how *I* believed, but how *they* saw it.  Remember that they had been dismissive many times of the US, seeing it as a country that only launches a few missiles in an empty gesture when attacked.  We were not talking my own perceptions, but theirs.

And sorry, I in no way see this as "nutty", nor even particularly "right wing".  If you are going to be getting this and dissecting it politically, this is pretty much at an end.


----------



## rdean (Sep 19, 2013)

MikeK said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> > How soon they forget.
> ...



You guys should know better than to fuck with Clinton.  He makes you guys look mindless and stupid.  Obama does a pretty good job but Clinton really makes right wingers look stupid.


And look at this guy, asking Clinton questions and every time Clinton answers, he interrupts.  He keeps trying to direct Clinton into "something", who knows what?  And listen, you better watch the entire video before you do another "nice little conservative hit job".


----------



## Dante (Sep 19, 2013)

Mushroom said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Not bad, not bad at all but how does it explain the 'why' on being attacked?
> ...


Ahh, I see. But you did single out Clinton. Reagan and US Marines in Lebanon. GHWB cpuld be looked at both ways.  
They all contributed to a view you push. 

Sure they underestimated the response, but no one could have predicted the actual collapse of the Twin Towers, just read up on the architect response and the truther debunkers on Popular Mechanics. 

I believe they were as suprised as anyone when the collapse came and there is evidence for this.  So they took advantage of weaknesses in policy...big deal. Known knowns, known unknowns...

Otherwise the basics of your anaysis has been Dante's. View all along. Dante was a huge fan of Rumsfeld before he supported an occupatipn for democratic nation building at the point of a gun: Paul Bremer

Beyond the basics, you simplify the expected response ... I think they expected a more muscled response, but seen us run away in Lebanon and elsewhere...even though we went into Kuwait and Iraq.  They expected (like most) Afghanistan to be too big a hurdle. They bet wrong


----------



## Mushroom (Sep 19, 2013)

Dante said:


> Ahh, I see. But you did single out Clinton. Reagan and US Marines in Lebanon. GHWB cpuld be looked at both ways.
> They all contributed to a view you push.



No, you do not see.  You are trying to look for some kind of political agenda from me, and it is not there.  So you really are jumping at shadows.

President Reagan is not relevant, since he was known for putting boots on the ground, and he did not fire any cruise missiles.

For President Bush 41, same thing.  He was more likely to send in boots and pilots, not cruise missiles.  His only use was during the Gulf War, a total of 288.  He never used them in Panama, nor in former Yugoslavia.

President Clinton had a reputation for using cruise missiles constantly.  23 in June 1993, 13 in September 1995, 44 in September 1996, 75 in August 1998 (these were the strikes against Afghanistan and Sudan).  And finally 40 in December 1998 and 218 in Spring 1999.  And we are not talking about what *I* thought of this usage, but how it was perceived by many in the region.

President Bush 43 was to new in office, and seen as young and inexperienced.  They probably thought he would simply be a continuation of what President Clinton had done.

Remember, many saw the US as a decadent nation, that would never risk their own boys in combat.  They thought they had taught us the folly of fighting them man to man in Somalia, Yemen and Saudi Arabia.  And that our only response would be more cruise missiles, maybe some air strikes.  I honestly do not think they thought a multinational force led by the US would invade and put an end to their reign.



Dante said:


> Otherwise the basics of your anaysis has been Dante's. View all along. Dante was a huge fan of Rumsfeld before he supported an occupatipn for democratic nation building at the point of a gun: Paul Bremer
> 
> Beyond the basics, you simplify the expected response ... I think they expected a more muscled response, but seen us run away in Lebanon and elsewhere...even though we went into Kuwait and Iraq.  They expected (like most) Afghanistan to be too big a hurdle. They bet wrong



Personally, I think in many areas of the world Democracy is overrated.  There are simply to many cultural differences to ever make it work.

Personally, I think a better government would have been a Constitutional Parliamentary Monarchy, with the return of the Barakzai Dynasty.  The dynasty was popular with most of the Afghans, and had reigned over the nation since 1823.

And while I am sure that Lebanon had a bit to do with it, at that incident they also had their barracks blown up and lost a huge percent of the boots on the ground (1st Battalion 8th Marine Regiment essentially ceased to exist after that, having over 2/3 of their members killed and most of the rest injured).

But much more recently they saw what happened in Somalia, which was really a wash militarily, but a huge loss propaganda wise.  It was easy for many to accept the destruction of a Marine Infantry Battalion and the withdrawal.  It was harder to accept that 160 of what is claimed to be the best fighters in the world had over 40% casualties (over 10% killed), and the loss of 2 helicopters to illiterate villagers with WWII era weapons.

With just those few losses the US ran away.

Remember this is not about what I may or may not think at all, but their perception of what the US was like at the beginning of the new millennium.


----------



## Dante (Sep 19, 2013)

[MENTION=41892]Mushroom[/MENTION] Lebanon and Reagan...something bin laden knew all too well

"...the death toll was 241 American servicemen: 220 Marines, 18 sailors and three soldiers, making this incident the deadliest single-day death toll for the United States Marine Corps since World War II's Battle of Iwo Jima, the deadliest single-day death toll for the United States military since the first day of the Vietnam War's Tet Offensive, and the deadliest single attack on Americans overseas since World War II."  

"U.S. President Ronald Reagan called the attack a "despicable act"[47] and pledged to keep a military force in Lebanon."  -- "Eventually, it became evident that the U.S. would launch no serious and immediate retaliatory attack for the Beirut Marine barracks bombing beyond naval barrages and air strikes..."

1983 Beirut barracks bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think you conflate the Taliban and al qaeda. It's easy to do. See it all the time. Bin laden had contempt for us military forces as well as the us government and it's citizens. 

The Taliban were the people in charge of Afghanistan and al qeada were guests

How the US was view in 2001 has everything to do with things going back to Reagan and Afghan war at that time, as well as subsequent actions or inactions in the mideast. 

Remember, we allowed Saddam to keep his best troops intact.  Field Officers on the ground in parts of Iraq where the elite Guard were, were shocked that Stormin' Norman was holding a press conference and celebrating 'victory' of sorts as US crack troops and armored were ordered to stand down. ..as they watched the Guard slither away..  bin laden saw that too as did that fuck Taliban leader, Omar


----------



## Dante (Sep 19, 2013)

Air strikes, not cruise missles. Not a huge distinction as things go


----------



## Dante (Sep 19, 2013)

[MENTION=41892]Mushroom[/MENTION] The US is not founded on popular democracy. Madison and Hamilton, and others who won the arguments of the day abhored that notion. Representative democracy is what we ended up with as a model to build a republic. All cultures and societies differ and how they would view or use democracy should be left to them. Shit, even the early Christian Church knew that one and used it when pushing people into Christian models


----------



## Mushroom (Sep 20, 2013)

Dante said:


> [MENTION=41892]
> Mushroom[/MENTION] Lebanon and Reagan...something bin laden knew all too well



Trust me, I know it well also.  I was in boot camp that day, and a buddy of mine was in the unit that 1/8 relieved.



Dante said:


> [MENTION=41892]
> I think you conflate the Taliban and al qaeda. It's easy to do. See it all the time. Bin laden had contempt for us military forces as well as the us government and it's citizens.



No, I know full well the differences.

However, AQ was effectively operating as the intelligence and special operations arm of the Taliban.  Think of it as the Taliban as the Soviets, and AQ as their KGB.  They were 2 separate organizations, but working towards a common goal.

In fact, it was al-Qaeda who trained the 55th Arab Brigade for the Taliban, a group of hard liner foreigners who fought for the Taliban in their war with the Northern Alliance.


----------



## Mushroom (Sep 20, 2013)

Dante said:


> [MENTION=41892]Mushroom[/MENTION] The US is not founded on popular democracy. Madison and Hamilton, and others who won the arguments of the day abhored that notion. Representative democracy is what we ended up with as a model to build a republic. All cultures and societies differ and how they would view or use democracy should be left to them. Shit, even the early Christian Church knew that one and used it when pushing people into Christian models



Oh I am well aware of that, we are a Representative Republic.  

And it was based in many ways off of the Presbyterian Church.


----------



## gipper (Sep 20, 2013)

Mushroom said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Ahh, I see. But you did single out Clinton. Reagan and US Marines in Lebanon. GHWB cpuld be looked at both ways.
> ...



All the failed foreign interventions, with there consequent death and destruction, should lead one to conclude a policy of non-intervention is best.  But the chances of that happening are about zero, with the flawed and corrupt omnipresent American government.


----------



## Dante (Sep 20, 2013)

[MENTION=41892]Mushroom[/MENTION] 





Mushroom said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > [MENTION=41892]
> ...



I think you are making. Al qaeda out to be more powerful in Afghanistan than they actually were its a simplistic view that fits a simplistic narrative, but make no mistake about it -- the Taliban was in control.

The US even asked Omar to turn. Bin laden over. Was not gonna happen, but the acknowledgement was there.


----------



## Dante (Sep 20, 2013)

Mushroom said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > [MENTION=41892]Mushroom[/MENTION] The US is not founded on popular democracy. Madison and Hamilton, and others who won the arguments of the day abhored that notion. Representative democracy is what we ended up with as a model to build a republic. All cultures and societies differ and how they would view or use democracy should be left to them. Shit, even the early Christian Church knew that one and used it when pushing people into Christian models
> ...




Republicanism predates Christianity and far outdates christian sects like the Presbs.


----------



## Dante (Sep 20, 2013)

gipper said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



 [MENTION=27454]gipper[/MENTION]
In a perfect world non-intervention would be in everyones interest, and you would not be posting shit online.


----------



## Mushroom (Sep 20, 2013)

Dante said:


> I think you are making. Al qaeda out to be more powerful in Afghanistan than they actually were its a simplistic view that fits a simplistic narrative, but make no mistake about it -- the Taliban was in control.
> 
> The US even asked Omar to turn. Bin laden over. Was not gonna happen, but the acknowledgement was there.



And of that I do not deny.  And I never said that AQ was anything but effectively the intelligence and special ops arm of the Taliban, think of them as "Defense Contractors" if it makes you feel better.

The Taliban was a very regionalized force, where as AQ was really a multinational force.  Because most of them were foreigners they were no real threat to the Taliban, and brought to the table a great many skills and abilities that they lacked themselves.  This for example is why the 55th Arab Brigade was turned over to them to be trained.  Most Arabs do not have a great opinion of Afghans, and AQ was primarily made up of Arabs so this only made sense.

I am not sure why you are trying to read my posts and put almost an exact opposite spin on them from what I am really saying, and it is getting rather annoying to be honest.  I say A, you say I said B, I then have to steer you back to what A means, you insist I am still saying  A is B.


----------



## Mushroom (Sep 20, 2013)

gipper said:


> All the failed foreign interventions, with there consequent death and destruction, should lead one to conclude a policy of non-intervention is best.  But the chances of that happening are about zero, with the flawed and corrupt omnipresent American government.



Oh yes.  The Napoleonic Wars, World War I, World War II, Cambodia, Iran-Iraq, Darfur, Somalia, etc, etc, etc.  Isolationism has been such a great thing for the world, we simply must have more of it!

The only thing I have seen about isolationism is that it creates some disgustingly large death counts.


----------



## Dante (Sep 20, 2013)

[MENTION=41892]Mushroom[/MENTION] I am not trying to give your posts a meaning. I am merely looking to clarify meanings.  I did say I basically agree with your analysis


----------



## Dante (Sep 20, 2013)

Mushroom said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > All the failed foreign interventions, with there consequent death and destruction, should lead one to conclude a policy of non-intervention is best.  But the chances of that happening are about zero, with the flawed and corrupt omnipresent American government.
> ...


----------



## TNHarley (Sep 20, 2013)

dante is smart. more than not anyways lol
idk why he has got to be such a megalomaniac asshole


----------



## Dante (Sep 20, 2013)

because he can?


----------



## freedombecki (Sep 20, 2013)

Dante said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...


 The only minister at the time who signed the Declaration of Independence was a Presbyterian. His name was John Witherspoon. While the Congress itself decided on two houses--one for the man on the street, and one for states' influence, Presbyterian orderliness was the preferred form followed by the founders.

Mushroom knows his stuff, Mr. Dante.


----------



## KissMy (Sep 20, 2013)

Dante said:


> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



LK said "because of their freedoms" not our freedoms.



L.K.Eder said:


> because of their freedoms


----------



## Dante (Sep 20, 2013)

freedombecki said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Mushroom said:
> ...



I would think you'd know better than to confuse the Founders and Framers when daring to lecture Dante. 

So the Presb's get credit for exactly what?  How many Masons were in the room? How many deists who laughed in the face of Christianity and the Bible?


----------



## Dante (Sep 20, 2013)

KissMy said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > yidnar said:
> ...


LK?  Yidnar?

What is it you are saying?


----------



## MikeK (Sep 20, 2013)

Dante said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > rdean said:
> ...


(Excerpt)

Excerpted from PBS Frontline (John Miller) 1998 interview with Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan.  
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[. . .]_*We know at least one reason behind the symbolic participation of the Western forces and that is to support the Zionist plans for expansion of what is called the Greater Israel. Surely, their presence is not out of concern over their interests in the region. ... Their presence has no meaning save one and that is to offer support to the Jews in Palestine who are in need of their Christian brothers to achieve full control over the Arab Peninsula which they intend to make an important part of the so called Greater Israel. ...*_
Who Is Bin Laden? - Interview With Osama Bin Laden (in May 1998) | Hunting Bin Laden | FRONTLINE | PBS

(Close)

That is not "propaganda."  That is Osama bin Laden telling us specifically why he and his radical followers were pissed off at us.  And if you'll read the entire transcript of that interview you will find his warning that if the offenses were not addressed there would be _consequences._  And you will find there is no mention of anything contained in your convoluted speculations about the motive for 9/11.    

If you are a Zionist the reason for your denial of the obvious, which is mitigation on Israel's behalf, is clear.  If you are not a Zionist it would seem you are simply defending a long-held theory of your own which you stubbornly refuse to abandon in spite of any conflicting evidence, however irrefutable.  

Unfortunately there are none so blind as they who will not see.  So I should mention that I do not expect anything I've presented here to change your mind.  Because, like members of the _Flat Earth Society,_ your mind is made up and you cannot be swayed by conflicting facts.  My concern is for the benefit of those who have been deprived of the facts contained in the bin Laden interview and who might be diverted from the truth by your ruminations.


----------



## gipper (Sep 20, 2013)

Mushroom said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > All the failed foreign interventions, with there consequent death and destruction, should lead one to conclude a policy of non-intervention is best.  But the chances of that happening are about zero, with the flawed and corrupt omnipresent American government.
> ...



Most absurd.  

Why is it you interventionist warmongers always conclude that non-intervention MEANS isolationism...it must be some kind of mental illness.

Secondly, America's interventions have very likely resulted in far more death and destruction than had we NOT intervened.  You might want to read up on WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, etc....the a-bombings and fire bombings in WWII should enlighten you, but sadly I have little hope.

Unfortunately you apparently think it is America's job to stop foreign wars and atrocities wherever they occur.  Well my little friend, a policy such as this will only lead to our demise because it can't be stopped.  Man has been killing man since we got here.  It will never stop....and intervening causes greater harm.  

Time to mind our own business and take care of America.

You might not have heard or understood this famous quote.  Here it is: "War is the Health of the State" Do I need to explain the meaning to you?


----------



## Dante (Sep 20, 2013)

[MENTION=40845]Jeremiah[/MENTION]  





Jeremiah said:


> Their religion.  Islam.  According to them we are the great satan and Israel is the little satan.



This is so simplistic, I absilutely love it.  Reminds me of a favorite Steppenwolf tine:

Lyrics to 'Don't Step on the Grass, Sam' by Steppenwolf or better the lyrics to Tighten Up Your Wig:

"Your mind is too narrow, and it's no surprise
If you fell on a pin, well, you'd be blind in both eyes"


----------



## Dante (Sep 20, 2013)

[MENTION=40539]skye[/MENTION] 





skye said:


> Also, radical Islam attacked   us  because they have to convert all infidels.



Refer to the post above...


----------



## Dante (Sep 20, 2013)

MikeK said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...



Good gawd, bin laden says something and it cannot be considered propaganda?  

Hitler, Goebbels, other Nazis...they all gave reasons why they invaded neighbors...and using your whack-a-doodle yard stick, their reasons could not be considered lies and propaganda because?


----------



## Dante (Sep 20, 2013)

Irrational acts have a rationality that only irrational people can buy into


----------



## Mushroom (Sep 20, 2013)

gipper said:


> Secondly, America's interventions have very likely resulted in far more death and destruction than had we NOT intervened.  You might want to read up on WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, etc....the a-bombings and fire bombings in WWII should enlighten you, but sadly I have little hope.



Oh, so you support rule not by the will of the people, but by whoever is strongest.  If somebody has the power to annex a neighbor, then that is their right as the stronger nation.

Thank you for that insight.


----------



## Dante (Sep 20, 2013)

[MENTION=41892]Mushroom[/MENTION] 





Mushroom said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Secondly, America's interventions have very likely resulted in far more death and destruction than had we NOT intervened.  You might want to read up on WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, etc....the a-bombings and fire bombings in WWII should enlighten you, but sadly I have little hope.
> ...



Like the USA and Mexico?    but I agree with you, except when it comes to tough decisions like making the USA bigger than it was prior to US/Mexican war

Remember, principles are there to serve humanity or nations or people, not the other way around.  Every great leap forward in building the USA involved putting principles temporarilly into the back pocket...for a greater gain or good versus taking a principle to it's logical conclusion


----------



## MikeK (Sep 20, 2013)

Dante said:


> Irrational acts have a rationality that only irrational people can buy into


If you are referring specifically to the 9/11 attack as _irrational,_ I'll agree it was as irrational as is any act of organized insanity -- which obliquely defines the entirety of warfare.  But aside from that wholly intellectual observation the fact is the 9/11 attack was a brilliantly executed and phenomenally successful example of guerilla warfare.  

If you wish to assign an irrational characteristic to it I would say it's the fact that it was wholly and easily preventable.  All Bill Clinton or G.W. Bush had to do is acknowledge bin Laden's legitimately valid complaints and his unmistakable warning and do exactly what Bush very quietly did shortly after the attack -- which was remove the bin Sultan airbase from Mecca and pressure Sharon to evict the settlers from the Gaza region.   If, instead of issuing his infamously stupid _"Bring it on!"_ challenge, Bush had done those two things when bin Laden voiced his reasonable complaint there would have been no reason for him to _bring on_ the 9/11 attack.   

But your position is the attack was the result of bin Laden being "dissed" (which presumably means _disrespected_).   So you keep on believing that and see how many others, aside from Zionists and brainwashed neo-conservatives, go along with such a plainly specious theory.


----------



## Mushroom (Sep 20, 2013)

Dante said:


> Like the USA and Mexico?    but I agree with you, except when it comes to tough decisions like making the USA bigger than it was prior to US/Mexican war



It always amazes me that people do not realize there were 2 separate wars between Mexico and Texas.

The first was in 1836, and did not really involve the US at all.  That is when Texas revolted from Mexico, and became the Republic of Texas.

Texas at that time became an independent nation, until 1845 when at the request of the people of Texas they petitioned and became the 29th state, almost a decade after becoming independent.

Now by this time General Santa Anna had been deposed, and returned to power.  He refused to recognize the treaty that granted Texas it's independence, and insisted it was all still Mexican territory.

A year after annexation, a company of US Dragoons was ambushed near Brownsville, Texas by a heavy brigade of Mexican forces.  16 were killed, 5 were wounded, 49 were taken prisoner, and 1 escaped.

This is the incident that started the Mexican-American War.  And during the course of this war, California had it's own revolt and joined the US as well.


----------



## KissMy (Sep 20, 2013)

Dante said:


> *Why was America attacked on September 11, 2001?*
> 
> What were the reasons given and what are your thoughts on why a bunch of foreigners decided to attack America.?
> 
> ...



This all started way more than 2 decades ago. We really increased rocking their world & killing anyone who got in the way around WWII. The Iatola Komani, Osama Bin Ladin, Muammar Gaddafi, Ayman al-Zawahiri & other Mid East leaders started hitting back.

They have had it with our CIA operations & military crusade for the Jews and oil. They want the US & Jews out of their lands & out of control of their oil economy.

In the last 10 years we have toppled or killed most of their leaders. There are only a few more to go. Even Iran's Ahmadinejad & Komani are gone. So we are winning the war, not time to stop now.


----------



## Mushroom (Sep 20, 2013)

KissMy said:


> They have had it with our CIA operations & military crusade for the Jews and oil. They want the US & Jews out of their lands & out of control of their oil economy.



Ahh, that makes everything so crystal clear!


----------



## Dante (Sep 20, 2013)

Mushroom said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Like the USA and Mexico?    but I agree with you, except when it comes to tough decisions like making the USA bigger than it was prior to US/Mexican war
> ...



It always amazes me that blowhards assume others do not know what they know.  I am currently reading up on Kearney's March

Do you have a degree in revisionist history or do you practice pedantry without one?

bte, your comment about US Marines in Lebanon...I've met somebody who was there as you mentioned you had a friend there...and I have lots...lots of friends and acquaintances connected to 911.. so I call your expertise by association and raise you...


----------



## Dante (Sep 20, 2013)

KissMy said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > *Why was America attacked on September 11, 2001?*
> ...



Europen empires were therr way before the USA and neighbors there had oppressed and slaughtered so many innocents it is beyond appaling, yet you buy into the world view of Big Bad USA is to blame for it all

Your self loathing world view is immature and harmful to your psyche:  seek help


----------



## KissMy (Sep 20, 2013)

Dante said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...





Did the Mid East Extremist attack US soil, people or property prior to US assisting Jewish people to establish a "national home in Palestine" in 1948? Or before the CIA installed US puppet Shah into Iran in 1941? Why don't you just list all of those many attacks Mid East Extremist made on the USA prior. The first time on the US that I know of was Sirhan Sirhan assassinating Robert Kennedy in 1968. They have grown in number & severity since then. Sirhan Sirhan assassinated Robert Kennedy because of "his deliberate attempt to send those 50 bombers to Israel to obviously do harm to the Palestinians."


----------



## Mushroom (Sep 20, 2013)

KissMy said:


> Did the Mid East Extremist attack US soil, people or property prior to US assisting Jewish people to establish a "national home in Palestine" in 1948?



Were they even capable of doing so prior to 1948?

Prior to the widespread discovery of oil and the independence from European colonialism (and Turkish colonialism prior to that), this was probably the poorest region of the planet.  Your normal Chinese peasant probably had a higher income and standard of living then most people in North Africa and the Middle East.

And if this is all about Israel, why did it then take over 50 years to appear?

Sorry, your entire claim is laughable in the extreme.  But have fun blaming the Jews for everything.

I guess that if some extremists from Indonesia attack the US next year that is because of Israel as well.


----------



## KissMy (Sep 20, 2013)

Mushroom said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> > Did the Mid East Extremist attack US soil, people or property prior to US assisting Jewish people to establish a "national home in Palestine" in 1948?
> ...



Yes they were always able to terrorize people. How hard is it to shoot a politician?

Also look at the terrorist reasons for attacking. When & why did they start attacking US? It did not take 50 years to appear. It was exactly 20 years latter that Sirhan killed Kennedy.

I never claimed they were not dirt poor peasants prior to our discovery of oil there & our meddling in their economy & politics. Our involvement in the ME has likely helped many of them. The Jews technology has also helped them. But the extremist are pissed about it, religion & Jews invading.


----------



## Dante (Sep 20, 2013)

KissMy said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > KissMy said:
> ...



You will never win people over with your style or shit.


----------



## KissMy (Sep 20, 2013)

Dante said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



I knew you could not answer the questions. Stupid monkeys like you can only fling shit.

[youtube]cg2AezJo8aQ[/youtube]


----------



## KissMy (Sep 20, 2013)

500 acts or attempted acts of terrorism committed by Islamic extremists for the purpose of achieving varying political and/or religious ends since 1968. The total number of US deaths as a result of those acts of terrorism is over 10,000.


----------



## Dante (Sep 20, 2013)

..  





Mushroom said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> > Did the Mid East Extremist attack US soil, people or property prior to US assisting Jewish people to establish a "national home in Palestine" in 1948?
> ...



This guy will hijack the thread if you allow him to. Your move.


----------



## KissMy (Sep 20, 2013)

*Iran & the West 3 part series:

Part 1: Khomeini - The Man Who Changed The World!*
[youtube]FfrJ2rBobGs[/youtube]

*Part 2: Iran - The Pariah State!*
[youtube]wLjRkrTxkzY[/youtube]

*Part 3: Iran - Nuclear Confrontation!*
[youtube]Cf3fcoXx0pI[/youtube]


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Sep 20, 2013)

KissMy said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > KissMy said:
> ...



*Did the Mid East Extremist attack US soil, people or property prior to US assisting Jewish people to establish a "national home in Palestine" in 1948? *

Yes.


----------



## KissMy (Sep 20, 2013)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



I am sure you can provide proof of the hundreds of times that happened in all the years prior to 1948, just like the 500 times since.


----------



## gipper (Sep 21, 2013)

Mushroom said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Secondly, America's interventions have very likely resulted in far more death and destruction than had we NOT intervened.  You might want to read up on WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, etc....the a-bombings and fire bombings in WWII should enlighten you, but sadly I have little hope.
> ...



You have it backwards.  You believe in the strongest controlling the world.  Since the USA is the strongest militarily, we must allow our ignorant and corrupt leaders to impose their will on other nations.  That is what you warmongering interventionists believe.

Even after decades of foolish military interventions, which have failed miserably, you and your kind think we must continue this disastrous policy of American empire and hegemony...which will only lead to our bankruptcy and destruction.

When will you wake up?  

War makes the State increasingly more powerful and the people serfs.  History tells us once a state gains unlimited power, the people suffer greatly. America today is perfect proof of this.  

Here we are 50 years after the military industrial complex got away with murdering a president and yet, you want it's power to continue unabated and uncontrolled.  

Sad.  Very sad!


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Sep 21, 2013)

gipper said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...





You're wasting your time arguing with Mushroom,Kissmy, Rightwinger,and ToddsterParrot Gipper.

They are disinformation operative trolls sent here by their handlers to troll the boards to try and derail any kind of truth discussion about government corruption.

they always  defend the governments version of  events no matter how absurd and ridicules it is ignoring facts that prove them wrong never bothering to address them.they are here just to waste your time.Best to put them on ignore.


ONE reason among many? Hmmm, appears luke throw shit against a wall and see what sticks 

Why do posters here @ usmb appear so gullible and willing to accept simplistic bs?


that describes the four posters I was talking to Gipper about to a tee.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Sep 21, 2013)

Political Junky said:


> Motives for the September 11 attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> The attacks of September 11, 2001 in the northeast United States were an organized terrorist act carried out by 19 hijackers, and organized by numerous members of al-Qaeda. Motives for the attacks were stated before and after the attacks in several sources, iOsama bin Laden's declaration of a holy war against the United States, and a fatw&#257; signed by bin Laden and others calling for the killing of American civilians in 1998, are seen by investigators as evidence of his motivation.[2] In bin Laden's November 2002 "Letter to America",[3][4] he explicitly stated that al-Qaeda's motives for their attacks include: Western support for attacking Muslims in Somalia, supporting Russian atrocities against Muslims in Chechnya, supporting the Indian oppression against Muslims in Kashmir, the Jewish aggression against Muslims in Lebanon, the presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia,[4][5][6] U.S. support of Israel,[7][8] and sanctions against Iraq.[9]



I love posters naively  always use Wikipedia as a source worshipping them as their god and actually assuming they are accurate  when they have actually been caught lying on MULTIPLE times in the past in the fact they can type in anything they want that fits their agenda.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Sep 21, 2013)

R.C. Christian said:


> Because someone was trying to drive a foreign policy change that benefits the U.S., Israel, Saudi Arabia and various other filth. Ultimately it was about money and the empire building necessary to create that wealth.



that sums it all up right there.



It had nothing to do with that. That is what the statist Bush promoted to the American people as the reason. It is total BS.

And really...we Americans are losing our freedoms every day as our government grows bigger and more powerful.

It had to do with their fanatical beliefs and our government's constant interventions in the ME. 
__________________
those facts seem to escape a lot of people here.




If you will read the transcript of PBS' John Miller's 1998 interview with bin Laden you will see his primary complaints against the U.S. were our support of Israel and the presence of our military base on holy ground in Saudi Arabia. Further affirmation of these two factors being the provocation for the 9/11 attack is plainly seen in the fact that shortly after that attack Bush promptly removed the bin Sultan airbase from Saudi Arabia and he pressured Sharon to evict hundreds of Israeli settlers from the Gaza region. Two radical actions, both of which were quietly executed and never mentioned by the compliant mainstream media.

Neo-conservative Bush supporters methodically ignore that very revealing fact when they boast about the absence of further attacks during the remaining Bush Presidency. 

Bin Laden warned us. Clinton ignored the warning. So did Bush -- in spite of mounting intelligence alerts to the likelihood of an attack via hijacked passenger aircraft and "suspicious" Muslims taking flying lessons. Bush was practically told what was coming. 

Bin Laden warned us. Then he instigated and organized an attack against us. His reasons are clearly laid out in the transcript of an interview. I've provided a link to that interview in Message #54 in this thread -- along with a brief and relevant excerpt. Those who are interested in learning the truth can find it there.


exactly.Bush like his budy Clinton,had mutiple warnings of the attacks coming and like Clinton,knew they were coming and ignored them.

Just like his pal Clinton,he had no interest in stopping terrorists attacks because it was all part of their new world order agenda that they have both spoken of which is also the same words Hitler spoke of having.Nothing like hearing it from the horse's mouth. 
__________________


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Sep 21, 2013)

deleted post.


----------



## Hoffstra (Sep 21, 2013)

we were attacked because we keep sticking our noses in Middle East affairs.

we were attacked because we keep taking Israel's side even when they are wrong.

we were attacked because we have participated in many Middle Eastern coups.

we were attacked because you reap what you sow.


----------



## Dante (Sep 21, 2013)

Hoffstra said:


> we were attacked because we keep sticking our noses in Middle East affairs.
> 
> we were attacked because we keep taking Israel's side even when they are wrong.
> 
> ...



Yum yum, green eggs and ham


----------



## MaryL (Sep 21, 2013)

Beirut Lebanon 1982, 83'. Regan cut and ran with his tail between his legs, Muslim extremist learned what cowards Americans are.... or at least  how hollow our leaders are. What an effective tool suicide attacks were on the west. Our support for any cause can be shaken given the right tactics. But we still stand and we still support Israel. And so it goes...So maybe the real question here is:  What did the attacks on 9/11 accomplish?


----------



## Dante (Sep 21, 2013)

MaryL said:


> Beirut Lebanon 1982, 83'. Regan cut and ran with his tail between his legs, Muslim extremist learned what cowards Americans are.... or at least  how hollow our leaders are. What an effective tool suicide attacks were on the west. Our support for any cause can be shaken given the right tactics. But we still stand and we still support Israel. And so it goes...So maybe the real question here is:  What did the attacks on 9/11 accomplish?



Terroristz rarely win


----------



## MaryL (Sep 21, 2013)

Hmm. Terroristz rarely win...realy. But Extreemisz? How dey do?


----------



## Mushroom (Sep 22, 2013)

Dante said:


> This guy will hijack the thread if you allow him to. Your move.



Wow, step away for a day for some time in RL, and see what happened.

When these nutcases step in, there is really nothing you can do.  They are the braindead, who everything their mind thinks is the truth, and no amount of discussion will ever change their minds or even make them open their eyes.

Such as "inside job", who you can see his problem from his own words.



9/11 inside job said:


> You're wasting your time arguing with Mushroom,Kissmy, Rightwinger,and ToddsterParrot Gipper.
> 
> They are disinformation operative trolls sent here by their handlers to troll the boards to try and derail any kind of truth discussion about government corruption.



I for one do not "argue", I "debate".  And there is a big difference.  I cite facts (often referencing them for verification), he and others only parrot the same damaged lies over and over, insisting that anybody who does not agree with them are trolls and liars.

But yes, I consider this thread dead now, because the braindamaged ones have infested it.  And it is sad, but all to common nowadays.  When people scream you are a "government plant" just because you do not agree with them.

Talks levels about their paranoia and persecution complexes though.


----------



## MaryL (Sep 22, 2013)

OK, "Dante"(?),  tell us&#8230;. WHY? But that  would be to simple. You prefer games. Sam I am... This isn't about 9/11. Never was. Something fishy about this thread. I strongly urge everyone to refrain from posting until "Dante' can give a honest answer, or he and this thread can rot in the 9th circle of Hades.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Sep 23, 2013)

rdean said:


> You guys should know better than to fuck with Clinton.  He makes you guys look mindless and stupid.  Obama does a pretty good job but Clinton really makes right wingers look stupid.



Whereas rdean makes you look mindless and stupid....

I'm just sayin....


----------



## Indofred (Sep 23, 2013)

Dante said:


> *Why was America attacked on September 11, 2001?*
> 
> What were the reasons given and what are your thoughts on why a bunch of foreigners decided to attack America.?
> 
> ...



I think it was something to do with American interference, wars, coups and various other crimes in other people's countries along with support for Israel.
The former makes America a direct legitimate target whilst the latter makes America a legitimate target as a line of supply to the enemy.

Of course, a lot of people don't want to hear it was your government's fault for doing all those things.

Want to get rid of terrorism from Muslim groups? Stop attacking them and they won't care about you.
Simple, even for the right wing morons, isn't it?


----------



## gipper (Sep 23, 2013)

Indofred said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > *Why was America attacked on September 11, 2001?*
> ...



I agree with most of that, except the last sentence, which proves you are not well informed.  Who is it that attacked Libya?  Who is it that expanded the war in Afghanshitland?  Who was it that interfered in the overthrow of Mubarak?  Who is that wants war in Syria?  Who is it that drops bombs from drones on Muslims?  Who is it that invaded Packieland to kill OBL?  

It has nothing to do with the right or left.  Politicians and bureaucrats of both stripes love war, because it expands the power of the state.  When an American reaches this level of understanding, they realize how the two parties divide us allowing them to fleece us.  Lets stop the fleecing now.


----------



## oldfart (Sep 23, 2013)

gipper said:


> I agree with most of that, except the last sentence, which proves you are not well informed.  Who is it that attacked Libya?  Who is it that expanded the war in Afghanshitland?  Who was it that interfered in the overthrow of Mubarak?  Who is that wants war in Syria?  Who is it that drops bombs from drones on Muslims?  Who is it that invaded Packieland to kill OBL?
> 
> It has nothing to do with the right or left.  Politicians and bureaucrats of both stripes love war, because it expands the power of the state.  When an American reaches this level of understanding, they realize how the two parties divide us allowing them to fleece us.  Lets stop the fleecing now.



It pains me to say it, but you are right.  I would hope that progressive politicians would be less interventionist in other countries, but like the issue of supporting corporate power, they seem to get weak in the knees when it's time to rein in the military-corporate-interventionist cabal.


----------



## Indofred (Sep 23, 2013)

I thought Obama may well slow or stop the stupidity but he's just as bad as Bush.
Cash in the pocket beats reason with politicians.

Looks like the political left politicians in America are just as bad.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Sep 23, 2013)

Indofred said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > *Why was America attacked on September 11, 2001?*
> ...



*Want to get rid of terrorism from Muslim groups? Stop attacking them and they won't care about you.*

Exactly! 
As soon as those shoppers in Kenya stop attacking Muslim groups, terrorists will stop attacking shoppers.


----------



## gipper (Sep 23, 2013)

oldfart said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with most of that, except the last sentence, which proves you are not well informed.  Who is it that attacked Libya?  Who is it that expanded the war in Afghanshitland?  Who was it that interfered in the overthrow of Mubarak?  Who is that wants war in Syria?  Who is it that drops bombs from drones on Muslims?  Who is it that invaded Packieland to kill OBL?
> ...



Well Oldfart I am heartened that we can agree on this fundamental issue.  I only wish more Americans would come to understand the truth, rather than accept the lies and propaganda from the stinking Statists.


----------



## gipper (Sep 24, 2013)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



Actually the terrorists warned Kenya to remove their troops from Somalia or face consequences.  They acted on their threat, much as they did to America on 9/11. 

But that said, you will get no argument from me about the murderous and intolerant actions of radical Islam around the world.  It is NOT a religion of peace as many idiots in our government proclaimed....such as those foolish statists W and Mrs. BJ Bubba Clinton.


----------



## Mushroom (Sep 24, 2013)

gipper said:


> Actually the terrorists warned Kenya to remove their troops from Somalia or face consequences.  They acted on their threat, much as they did to America on 9/11.



And are you even aware of why Kenya was in Somalia in the first place?

Well, it was not as an invasion or occupation force, that is for sure.

The new Somalia government is still in a delicate position, trying to recover from almost 20 years of bloody civil war.  And as such, the African Union and the United Nations created the African Union Mission to Somalia, a multinational force to help combat al-Shabaab and other militant groups that have been using the Somali Civil War to carve out their own little territories.

As such, the Kenyan Army is providing assistance to the Somali military in shutting down these little warlords who continue to fight against the government.  So to me, the very attack by al-Shabaab illustrates exactly why they must be destroyed.

Sorry, all I see here is a coward and a fool.  If I go up and tell you I am going to beat you up unless you give me your money, would you just meekly turn it over?  If I took your neighbor's backyard to use as my own then told you I was going to kick your ass if you threatened to help him evict me, would you just quietly go home and ignore me?

This is the kind of logic you are using, and the conditions really are no different.  If a crackhouse sets up next door, would you just go along with it because it was none of your business what goes on in another house?


----------



## Dante (Sep 24, 2013)

These terrorists were attacking Kenya and Kenyans before the recent situation. It's true...look it up.


----------



## KissMy (Sep 24, 2013)

Early Islam Wars & Attacks - 622-634

1. The killing of Abu Afak. - The poet who mocked Muhammad was killed with "one blow of his sword when the latter slept outside his house."
2. The killing of Asma Marwan.
3. Attack upon the 'Banu Qaynuqa' Jews
4. The killing of Kab Ashraf
5. The killing of Ibn Sunayna. - The Jewish merchant who was killed at the hands of a Muslim zealot.
6. Attack against the Banu Nadir Jews.
7. Massacre of the Banu Qurayza Jews. - Medina in 627, Muhammad's followers killed between 600 and 900 of the men, and divided the surviving Jewish women and children amongst themselves, after the Jewish tribe had committed treason to the treaty of Madinah and were punished according to the torah.
8. The killing of the shepherd.
9. The torture and killing of Kenana ibn al-Rabi
10. The slaying of an old woman from Banu Fazara
11. The killing of Abdullah Khatal and his daughter.
12. The attack upon Tabuk for becoming an apostate.

Though they offered to surrender, Muhammad felt the need to make an example of them. "The adult males were condemned to death, and the women and children to slavery. Between 600 and 900 males were beheaded ." Three large Jewish tribes dwelled in Medina in Muhammad's time: the Banu Nadir, Banu Kainuka, and Banu Qurayza. When war broke out between Muhammad's new supporters and the Meccans, the Jewish clans of Medina remained neutral and were at first unharmed. Nevertheless after the 627 failed Meccan siege of Medina, Muhammad accused the Jews of siding with the Meccans and ordered an attack on them. The reference to this episode in Islamic text is in Sura 33 of the Qu'ran, known as &#8220;The Clans.&#8221; (The Quran tells of three Jewish tribes conquered by Mohammed near Medina, "Two were permitted to choose conversion or exile, but the third was allowed only conversion or death.").


----------



## National Socialist (Sep 24, 2013)

Support for Israel the terrorist state and its genocidal policies towards the Palestinians
Meddling in ME affairs
Having a base/bases in Saudi Arabia

Oh and I don't think muslims did 9/11 I say Bush and Mossad did it.


----------



## KissMy (Sep 24, 2013)

National Socialist said:


> Oh and I don't think muslims did 9/11 I say Bush and Mossad did it.



How did Bush do it?


----------



## National Socialist (Sep 24, 2013)

KissMy said:


> National Socialist said:
> 
> 
> > Oh and I don't think muslims did 9/11 I say Bush and Mossad did it.
> ...



I think he gave specific information to Mossad who in turned actually carried the attack out using drugged or brainwashed muslims...


----------



## KissMy (Sep 24, 2013)

National Socialist said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> > National Socialist said:
> ...



Can you show us any proof?


----------



## gipper (Sep 24, 2013)

Mushroom said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Actually the terrorists warned Kenya to remove their troops from Somalia or face consequences.  They acted on their threat, much as they did to America on 9/11.
> ...



Take it easy Mushroom Head.  I was responding to a post that inferred that the mall shootings were entirely coincidental.  They were not.  They warned Kenya and acted on it.  

Yeah these stinking terrorists are sick bastards and need a good ass kicking.  

Lets not make an argument where we have none.  I am sure we can find plenty to argue about legitimately.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Sep 24, 2013)

National Socialist said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> > National Socialist said:
> ...



 What's the difference between brainwashed muslims and regular ones?


----------



## KissMy (Sep 24, 2013)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> National Socialist said:
> 
> 
> > KissMy said:
> ...


----------



## National Socialist (Sep 24, 2013)

New Unseen Footage Emerges from the 9/11 Attacks | The Libertarian Republic


----------



## National Socialist (Sep 24, 2013)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZBmfRBv-Go]Proof Bush knew about 9/11 in advance? - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## National Socialist (Sep 24, 2013)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riWFI0Gu1sQ]GEORGE BUSH ADMITS 9 11 WAS A CONSPIRACY - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## asterism (Sep 24, 2013)

Dante said:


> Why did people attack America?



To acquire power.


----------



## National Socialist (Sep 24, 2013)

Proof of Lies by George W. Bush in National Geographic Interview on 9/11 : Conscious Life News


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Sep 24, 2013)

National Socialist said:


> GEORGE BUSH ADMITS 9 11 WAS A CONSPIRACY - YouTube



con·spir·a·cy
/k&#601;n&#712;spir&#601;s&#275;/
noun
noun: conspiracy;&#8195;plural noun: conspiracies
1. a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.


I'm pretty sure Osama and the rest of his terrorist buddies had a secret plan to do something unlawful and harmful.


----------



## Mushroom (Sep 24, 2013)

National Socialist said:


> New Unseen Footage Emerges from the 9/11 Attacks | The Libertarian Republic



Why don't you get this crap out of here and into the Conspiracy Theory section where it belongs?


----------



## National Socialist (Sep 24, 2013)

Stop crying like a bitch. Facts must scare the hell out of people here.


----------



## Mushroom (Sep 24, 2013)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> National Socialist said:
> 
> 
> > GEORGE BUSH ADMITS 9 11 WAS A CONSPIRACY - YouTube
> ...



conspiracy theory
n.
1.  A theory seeking to explain a disputed case or matter as a plot by a secret group or alliance rather than an individual or isolated act.
2.  the belief that the government or a covert organization is responsible for an event that is unusual or unexplained, esp when any such involvement is denied

I really love that second definition, because it proves the circular logic that always follows conspiracy theorists.

CTN:  You were involved in the assassination of FDR.
M:  What are you talking about, I had nothing to do with that!
CTN:  See!  You deny it, that proves you were involved!
M:  But I was not even born yet!
CTN:  Show me your birth certificate, I know it is a fake!

There is a reason I consider most who chase these theories to be mentally challenged.  There is a deep level of paranoia involved with all of them in my experience.


----------



## KissMy (Sep 24, 2013)

National Socialist said:


> GEORGE BUSH ADMITS 9 11 WAS A CONSPIRACY - YouTube



Of course it was an conspiracy among Al-Qaeda members to hi-jack planes & crash them into our government, military & economic power centers.

None of your videos have any proof or anything new.


----------



## Meathead (Sep 24, 2013)

America was attacked because it was a beacon of progress to a backward peoples. In too great a part they won. America is beginning to resemble instead of them us.


----------



## KissMy (Sep 24, 2013)

Meathead said:


> In too great a part they won. America is beginning to resemble them instead of us.



Yup! - I was reading how we killed one of their doctors who was implanting bombs inside terrorist boobs & abdomen. Can you imagine the security search we would have to go through if they pull off an attack like that? It is already like a police state here.


----------



## Indofred (Sep 25, 2013)

Meathead said:


> America was attacked because it was a beacon of progress to a backward peoples. In too great a part they won. America is beginning to resemble instead of them us.



A beacon or a drone?

America has attacked more countries than most others, started more wars and imposed it's dictators in many.

How enlightened.


----------



## Meathead (Sep 25, 2013)

Indofred said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> > America was attacked because it was a beacon of progress to a backward peoples. In too great a part they won. America is beginning to resemble instead of them us.
> ...


It has also removed dictators. You're still upset about Saddam, Hitler, Noriega, the Taliban or King George III?


----------

