# Clean Coal??



## Disenchanted61 (Sep 16, 2011)

There has been a lot of support for the burning of coal of late, and the insistence that it is economically and environmentally sound.

As a matter of fact there is no clean method of burning coal and the GOP is crying "foul"
for tighter restrictions on coal burning plants.

I am wondering something; How much would a littering ticket set you back in your county, and 
is throwing a bubble gum wrapper out the window of a moving vehicle as detrimental
to our ecology as the burning of coal?

I hear a lot from the GOP side that coal burning is "no problem," but where are the stats. that 
enforce this belief and is mountain top removal and burning this earthen material a sound
investment into our future?


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## eflatminor (Sep 16, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


> There has been a lot of support for the burning of coal of late, and the insistence that it is economically and environmentally sound.
> 
> As a matter of fact there is no clean method of burning coal and the GOP is crying "foul"
> for tighter restrictions on coal burning plants.
> ...



What is the alternative?  Unless you've got magic beans, the technology simply does not exist to replace the use of fossil fuels.  I'm sure someday it will but until then, what is your alternative?


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## Oddball (Sep 16, 2011)

You've convinced me....We all oughtta go back to burning wood to heat our homes.

That'll really clear up the air!


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## LordBrownTrout (Sep 16, 2011)

Drill it, dig it, excavate it, mine it, blast it, dredge it, dynamite it,....are my mottos.


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## percysunshine (Sep 16, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


> There has been a lot of support for the burning of coal of late, and the insistence that it is economically and environmentally sound.
> 
> As a matter of fact there is no clean method of burning coal and the GOP is crying "foul"
> for tighter restrictions on coal burning plants.
> ...



You seem pretty smart for a guy with his finger up his nose.


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## AVG-JOE (Sep 16, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


> There has been a lot of support for the burning of coal of late, and the insistence that it is economically and environmentally sound.
> 
> As a matter of fact there is no clean method of burning coal and the GOP is crying "foul"
> for tighter restrictions on coal burning plants.
> ...



Statistics that support burning coal:



			
				The Informative Link Below said:
			
		

> +PACs and individuals employed by the 48 mining, manufacturing, rail and utility companies that are a part of the American Coalition for Clean Coal Electricity (ACCCE) contributed $15.6 million to federal candidates in the 2008 election cycle.
> 
> +87 percent of all members of Congress collected money from ACCCE members



CPI: Coal Industry Launched "Unprecedented Corporate Campaign" - OpenSecrets Blog | OpenSecrets


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## eflatminor (Sep 16, 2011)

Oddball said:


> You've convinced me....We all oughtta go back to burning wood to heat our homes.
> 
> That'll really clear up the air!



And we should replace cars with horses because they don't produce ANY CO2 emissions.  They fart pure oxygen don't cha know!


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## Disenchanted61 (Sep 16, 2011)

eflatminor said:


> Disenchanted61 said:
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> > There has been a lot of support for the burning of coal of late, and the insistence that it is economically and environmentally sound.
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You are not aware of the alternatives?
Solar, wind.


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## Disenchanted61 (Sep 16, 2011)

Oddball said:


> You've convinced me....We all oughtta go back to burning wood to heat our homes.
> 
> That'll really clear up the air!


 I appreciate your contribution to this post,
but that response went nowhere bro.


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## LordBrownTrout (Sep 16, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


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Supplemental, at best.  They're not concentrated.


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## Disenchanted61 (Sep 16, 2011)

LordBrownTrout said:


> Drill it, dig it, excavate it, mine it, blast it, dredge it, dynamite it,....are my mottos.


 Is that what you do at home?


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## LordBrownTrout (Sep 16, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


> LordBrownTrout said:
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At work.


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## Disenchanted61 (Sep 16, 2011)

percysunshine said:


> Disenchanted61 said:
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> > There has been a lot of support for the burning of coal of late, and the insistence that it is economically and environmentally sound.
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 LOL,
Thank you for the compliment, but that is where I do my mining.


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## DiamondDave (Sep 16, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


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Feasible alternatives... pedaling bikes is an 'alternative' too... just as unfeasible

Yet we notice you did not mention a viable alternative named Nuke.... Hmmm... I smell an environazi


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## AVG-JOE (Sep 16, 2011)

eflatminor said:


> Disenchanted61 said:
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> > There has been a lot of support for the burning of coal of late, and the insistence that it is economically and environmentally sound.
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Fair taxes and a budget balanced by law.

Remember:  If the Horse and Buggy Lobby of 1895 was as powerful as the fossil fuel lobby of 1995, things would smell differently today, although not necessarily better.

Fair and simple taxes that subject ALL industries to the same tax rate allows the market to decide instead of the lobbyists.


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## Ringel05 (Sep 16, 2011)

*Clean Coal??*

If you want to but I'd recommend not using the dishwasher.


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## mudwhistle (Sep 16, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


> There has been a lot of support for the burning of coal of late, and the insistence that it is economically and environmentally sound.
> 
> As a matter of fact there is no clean method of burning coal and the GOP is crying "foul"
> for tighter restrictions on coal burning plants.
> ...



Who in the GOP is saying it's no problem???


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## Oddball (Sep 16, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


> Oddball said:
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> > You've convinced me....We all oughtta go back to burning wood to heat our homes.
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No less nowhere than your proposed "alternatives", sport.


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## percysunshine (Sep 16, 2011)

Coal is just carbon atoms. Why do people hate carbon atoms? If we were silicon or sulphur based life forms, I could understand the animosity.


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## AVG-JOE (Sep 16, 2011)

DiamondDave said:


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I like nuclear.  I run my AC all summer and I don't feel guilty at all - I live 10 miles from a nuclear power plant.


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## eflatminor (Sep 16, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


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You really need to read up on solar and wind power.  Not only will the environmentalists prevent there implementation on a large scale, the technology simply does NOT exist to replace fossil and nuclear power.  Even if you were willing to cover the majority of the Southwest with solar panels and litter the landscape with bird-killing windmills, and even if you were able to overcome environmental objections, the cost is prohibitive.  Sorry, you're heart may be in the right place but science simply cannot replace fossil and nuclear power with solar and wind, not at this point in our evolution.  As further proof of this fact, consider that no solar or wind operations are able to compete without government provided tax breaks and other incentives.  If the science were there, we'd see nuclear plants being replaced with windmills.


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## Disenchanted61 (Sep 16, 2011)

DiamondDave said:


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 After the environmental disasters that lay in the wake of nuclear
fallout; surely you jest. I smell an ignorant!!


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## DiamondDave (Sep 16, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


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Ahh... the Chernobyl argument... of course, constructed by a leftist totalitarian socialist government....
How many lethal or massive nuke accidents have we had here?? In France even?? How much fallout do we have from nuke plants on a regular basis??

You, boy, are about as ignorant as they come


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## Disenchanted61 (Sep 16, 2011)

AVG-JOE said:


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 The unfortunate fact is that extraction  and conversion, is an environmental catastrophe, and if anyone has doubts........ask the locals.


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## DiamondDave (Sep 16, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


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Yep.. this seals the deal... environazi in the midst

So screw a knothole, treehugger


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## Disenchanted61 (Sep 16, 2011)

Ringel05 said:


> *Clean Coal??*
> 
> If you want to but I'd recommend not using the dishwasher.


  O.K. Thank you for the advice.


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## LordBrownTrout (Sep 16, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


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You wouldn't be typing on the computer without the extraction of earth's natural resources.  Oil is responsible for the research and development of thousands of medicines, drugs, and just about everything that we interact with in day to day activities.


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## Disenchanted61 (Sep 16, 2011)

Oddball said:


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Well sport, more of the same old will just give you the same ole' Keep the lobbyist's out of way so we can move on to better newer ways. Solar and wind are proven to be more than efficient.


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## AVG-JOE (Sep 16, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


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That's where regulation has to come into play.  LOCAL regulation.    Do you reckon people might be a bit more open to a nuke plant or a refinery in their back yard if they could get next to free electric or really cheap gas by allowing it?

You want safety and the best pollution controls technology available?  Insist that the final decision maker at the plant raises HIS family in its shadow.  

This ain't rocket science, folks.


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## Disenchanted61 (Sep 16, 2011)

AVG-JOE said:


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I am sure that when you head looks like a pumpkin someday
and your skin falls off, you will care.


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## eflatminor (Sep 16, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


> After the environmental disasters that lay in the wake of nuclear fallout; surely you jest.



Do you realize that natural gas kills far more people (about 50 per year) than nuclear power radiation leaks ever have?  It's true.


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## Moonglow (Sep 16, 2011)

eflatminor said:


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any links?


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## tonystewart1 (Sep 16, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


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I am a local and an extractor.

There is no problems living in coal mining communities. We reclaim the mountain when we are done. Most of the time turning into useful land that people can build houses or factories on when before is was a steep face of a mountian.


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## AVG-JOE (Sep 16, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


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It's possible, I'll grant you that.

In reality though, my head already looks like a pumpkin and if my skin falls off, it will have more to do with the fun I have in the Florida sun than the nuclear power plant.

Living your life in fear of the possibilities is a waste.


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## Disenchanted61 (Sep 16, 2011)

Moonglow said:


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No, links. I always encourage people to search for sources so they may not believe they are being manipulated. But I myself have been following this coal mining
catastrophe for years now. There are documentaries as well, that include testimony from
the locals, who's communities have been devastated as a result of coal mining and burning.


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## DiamondDave (Sep 16, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


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Not as efficient, cost effective, nor even as environmentally sound as you environazis like to spout off.. sorry, the numbers say differently than your green preaching


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## Disenchanted61 (Sep 16, 2011)

eflatminor said:


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 I believe the difference would be that nuclear
energy is uncontrollable once it has been let out of the bottle, and far more devastating. Chernobyl and Fukushima are good examples and we here on the west coast will be feeling the 
fallout. I don't appreciate that one bit, would you?


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## Disenchanted61 (Sep 16, 2011)

tonystewart1 said:


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Nice try!!


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## DiamondDave (Sep 16, 2011)

Uhh.. I have ex in-laws that have been a family of coal miners, foremen, and engineers in the business... there are extensive efforts put into the cleanliness, and reclamation during and after the mining

You, sir (and I use that term very lightly in your case), love to simply spout off environazi talking points, without a clue as to what you are talking about


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## Disenchanted61 (Sep 16, 2011)

DiamondDave said:


> Uhh.. I have ex in-laws that have been a family of coal miners, foremen, and engineers in the business... there are extensive are put into the cleanliness, and reclamation during and after the mining
> 
> You, sir (and I use that term very lightly in your case), love to simply spout off environazi talking points, without a clue as to what you are talking about


 Is this your opinion,
or a fact?


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## LordBrownTrout (Sep 16, 2011)

DiamondDave said:


> Uhh.. I have ex in-laws that have been a family of coal miners, foremen, and engineers in the business... there are extensive are put into the cleanliness, and reclamation during and after the mining
> 
> You, sir (and I use that term very lightly in your case), love to simply spout off environazi talking points, without a clue as to what you are talking about



Same here.  My father worked in the coal mines in western Ky, provided for the family and put my sister and I through school.  After the mine was closed the land was reclaimed.  I had a chance to visit that camp a few years ago and was amazed at how it was restored.


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## Oddball (Sep 16, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


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If your "better and newer" ways were as economically sound and efficient as you claim, they wouldn't need scores of billions in handouts (and all the attendant *gaaaaaaasp* lobbyists) to keep them afloat.

BTW, you haven't perchance heard about the Solyndra bankruptcy scandal, have you?


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## Disenchanted61 (Sep 16, 2011)

LordBrownTrout said:


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But is that how you would treat your home?


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## LordBrownTrout (Sep 16, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


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Forgive me, I fail to see the connection that you're trying to make.


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## Disenchanted61 (Sep 16, 2011)

Oddball said:


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Yes I have heard about the Soylndra scandal, and I didn't forget the Enron scandal either, and that didn't convince anybody to end the use of natural gas.


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## DiamondDave (Sep 16, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


> DiamondDave said:
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> > Uhh.. I have ex in-laws that have been a family of coal miners, foremen, and engineers in the business... there are extensive are put into the cleanliness, and reclamation during and after the mining
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Fact, moron...

Else I would have said I 'think' or I 'believe' that coal mining cleans or reclaims..

The facts are there in law and in results that show the efforts put toward this by the mining industry

Still waiting for all those documented deaths we have from all the 'fallout' and those nuke accidents we have here....

Quit while you are behind


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## Disenchanted61 (Sep 16, 2011)

DiamondDave said:


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You already lost with your childish attitude. Come back when you are all grown up.


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## DiamondDave (Sep 16, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


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You already lost with your posting of assumptions and talking points as 'fact'... you claimed all these deaths or disasters from 'fallout' from the nuke industry here... put up or shut up..

I tell my kids, that are probably close to your age, to shut the fuck up when they try and state their assumptions as fact like you try to do... I have no more 'growing up' to do.. I have to worry more about losing height and hair now than I have to worry about any growing


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## Disenchanted61 (Sep 17, 2011)

DiamondDave said:


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These are historical facts DiamondDave, and you are as foolish as they come, so if you can not provide a scientific conclusion
that measures safe levels of coal burning pollution, then it appears you are riding on assumptions and opinion, and behaving like a jackass is not going to support any half assed 
data you have yet to offer. DOODY HEAD!!


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## Disenchanted61 (Sep 17, 2011)

DiamondDave said:


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You are nothing but a pathetic liar and I have no tolerance for adult liars, so like I said; come back when you're all grown up!!


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## Charles_Main (Sep 17, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


> There has been a lot of support for the burning of coal of late, and the insistence that it is economically and environmentally sound.
> 
> As a matter of fact there is no clean method of burning coal and the GOP is crying "foul"
> for tighter restrictions on coal burning plants.
> ...




Sorry dude, were very dependant on Coal right now, and trying to just Phase it out over night, when nothing exists that can replace it, That the Environmental Wackos would let us use(Nuclear) is only going to Ruin our Economy even more.

Clean Coal Tech is not perfect, but it is indeed MUCH CLEANER than before. Why knock it, were going to be using coal for sometime to come anyways, Might as well be as clean as it can be.


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## Charles_Main (Sep 17, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


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Hurry back when you have proof of all those deaths here do to Nuclear accidents ok?


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Sep 17, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdi4onAQBWQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player]SHOCK Audio Unearthed OBAMA TELLS SAN FRANCISCO HE WILL BANKRUPT THE COAL INDUSTRY - YouTube[/ame]


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## Intense (Sep 17, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


> There has been a lot of support for the burning of coal of late, and the insistence that it is economically and environmentally sound.
> 
> As a matter of fact there is no clean method of burning coal and the GOP is crying "foul"
> for tighter restrictions on coal burning plants.
> ...



Coal is a fossil fuel composed primarily of carbons and hydrocarbons. Its ingredients help make plastics, tar and fertilizers. A coal derivative, a solidified carbon called coke, melts iron ore and reduces it to create steel. But most coal -- 92 percent of the U.S. supply -- goes into power production [source: Energy Information Administration]. Electric companies and businesses with power plants burn coal to make the steam that turns turbines and generates electricity.

When coal burns, it releases carbon dioxide and other emissions in flue gas, the billowing clouds you see pouring out of smoke stacks. Some clean coal technologies purify the coal before it burns. One type of coal preparation, coal washing, removes unwanted minerals by mixing crushed coal with a liquid and allowing the impurities to separate and settle.
Other systems control the coal burn to minimize emissions of sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides and particulates. Wet scrubbers, or flue gas desulfurization systems, remove sulfur dioxide, a major cause of acid rain, by spraying flue gas with limestone and water. The mixture reacts with the sulfur dioxide to form synthetic gypsum, a component of drywall.

Low-NOx (nitrogen oxide) burners reduce the creation of nitrogen oxides, a cause of ground-level ozone, by restricting oxygen and manipulating the combustion process. Electrostatic precipitators remove particulates that aggravate asthma and cause respiratory ailments by charging particles with an electrical field and then capturing them on collection plates.

**Gasification avoids burning coal altogether. With integrated gasification combined cycle (IGCC) systems, steam and hot pressurized air or oxygen combine with coal in a reaction that forces carbon molecules apart. The resulting syngas, a mixture of carbon monoxide and hydrogen, is then cleaned and burned in a gas turbine to make electricity. The heat energy from the gas turbine also powers a steam turbine. Since IGCC power plants create two forms of energy, they have the potential to reach a fuel efficiency of 50 percent [source: *U.S. Department of Energy]. * 

HowStuffWorks "What is clean coal technology?"


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## Intense (Sep 17, 2011)

Carbon capture and storage -- perhaps the most promising clean coal technology -- catches and sequesters carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions from stationary sources like power plants. Since CO2 contributes to global warming, reducing its release into the atmosphere has become a major international concern. In order to discover the most efficient and economical means of carbon capture, researchers have developed several technologies.

Flue-gas separation removes CO2 with a solvent, strips off the CO2 with steam, and condenses the steam into a concentrated stream. Flue gas separation renders commercially usable CO2, which helps offset its price. Another process, oxy-fuel combustion, burns the fuel in pure or enriched oxygen to create a flue gas composed primarily of CO2 and water -- this *sidesteps the energy-intensive process of separating the CO2 from other flue gasses. A third technology, pre-combustion capture, removes the CO2 before it's burned as a part of a gasification process.

After capture, secure containers sequester the collected CO2 to prevent or stall its reentry into the atmosphere. The two storage options, geologic and oceanic, must contain the CO2 until peak emissions subside hundreds of years from now. Geologic storage involves injecting CO2 into the earth. Depleted oil or gas fields and deep saline aquifers safely contain CO2 while unminable coal seams absorb it. A process called enhanced oil recovery already uses CO2 to maintain pressure and improve extraction in oil reservoirs.

Ocean storage, a technology still in its early stages, involves injecting liquid CO2 into waters 500 to 3,000 meters deep, where it dissolves under pressure. However, this method would slightly decrease pH and potentially harm marine habitats. All forms of CO2 storage require careful preparation and monitoring to avoid creating environmental problems that outweigh the benefits of CO2 containment.

HowStuffWorks "Clean Coal Emissions"


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## tonystewart1 (Sep 18, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


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What do you mean nice try?

I am giving you first hand anecdotal evidence and all you can say is nice try. 

You have never been to a reclaimed mine site or an active mining operation have you?

I am willing to bet that the only thing you have seen are videos from enviromentalists like I love mountains or earth justice.  They have an agenda too. They only present the evidence that supports their opinion.

Come here and see it first hand. Talk to the people and see how much they love coal and the living we can make from it.


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## Oddball (Sep 18, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


> The unfortunate fact is that extraction  and conversion, is an environmental catastrophe, and if anyone has doubts........ask the locals.


I live part time in coal country, in NW Colorado.

You're a know-nothing fool.


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## Disenchanted61 (Sep 18, 2011)

Oddball said:


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And you are a liar!


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## Oddball (Sep 18, 2011)

Really?

I have a ski condo in Steamboat Springs...I'll likely be hanging out there this winter.

G'head and do a Google search on Hayden and Craig, Colorado.

Take your time...I'm not going anywhere.


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## Oddball (Sep 18, 2011)

Here...I'll even do some of the work, you ignoramus putz....

Hayden Gulch Coal Mine - Moffat County, Colorado

Trapper Mine Reclamation Attracts Wildlife, wins praise


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## Kevinthedog (Sep 18, 2011)

Oddball said:


> Really?
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> I have a ski condo in Steamboat Springs...I'll likely be hanging out there this winter.
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I lived in craig for 13 years...still have property there.


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## keee keee (Sep 18, 2011)

LordBrownTrout said:


> Drill it, dig it, excavate it, mine it, blast it, dredge it, dynamite it,....are my mottos.



the greenies won't let us burn our own coal so the mining companies sell it to others to use and guess what the smoke goes up in the same air we use and breath. make any sense? same goes with drilling in the gulf. we are afraid of an oil spill, but many other countries like China are still drilling for oil in the gulf stealing our oil resource and guess what if there is a spill we then get the oil, If we had a president with any brains he would make a goal like Kennedy did when he made the goal to go to the moon in 10 years. make a goal to be energy independent in say twenty year. and start using our GOD given energy resources that we have in the mean while!!!! We have plenty of resources but are to stupid to use them. not to mention all the jobs that would be created finding, making and using our energy resources... There is no energy shotage only a supply shortage. Now thats the kind of hope and change we need not the kind of bullshit Obama pedled like in the last election!!!! every time I fill up I blame the Greenies and the Democrats and Mainly Obama for the $4.00 dollar a gallon gas I have to buy


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## Oddball (Sep 18, 2011)

Kevinthedog said:


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Yeah...And the town is far from being the environmental disaster area that the anti-coal nutbars want you to believe that coal towns are, right?


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## Kevinthedog (Sep 18, 2011)

Oddball said:


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well, not since the reclamation act...before that coal producers were pretty cavalier about their "mess". there are quite a few superfund sites in colorado as you know, brought on by old and antiquated mining practices!

Let me ask you....do you think coal companies would of voluteered to clean up their mess if "greenies" hadnt made it law? Now...try to be honest.....

do you remember the hayden Power Plant controversy..where PSC spent years dragging their feet on the pollution and it's effects...lying about the pollution...then admitting the greenies were right and they had to install scrubbers? creating jobs  in the valley? and now the yampa valley isnt full of pollution and the lakes arent suffering from acid rain? did you even know about it? PSC sure cost tax payers a lot of money with their dishonesty...too bad they werent honest from the beginning.


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## Kevinthedog (Sep 18, 2011)

NW Colorado is one of my favorite places on the planet. excellent elk deer hunting, and fantastic trout fishing, hiking, boating, atving places known to...me!


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## Oddball (Sep 18, 2011)

Kevinthedog said:


> well, not since the reclamation act...before that coal producers were pretty cavalier about their "mess". there are quite a few superfund sites in colorado as you know, brought on by old and antiquated mining practices!
> 
> Let me ask you....do you think coal companies would of voluteered to clean up their mess if "greenies" hadnt made it law? Now...try to be honest.....
> 
> do you remember the hayden Power Plant controversy..where PSC spent years dragging their feet on the pollution and it's effects...lying about the pollution...then admitting the greenies were right and they had to install scrubbers? creating jobs  in the valley? and now the yampa valley isnt full of pollution and the lakes arent suffering from acid rain? did you even know about it? PSC sure cost tax payers a lot of money with their dishonesty...too bad they werent honest from the beginning.


Oh, I'm not claiming that the coal companies and power plants have clean hands here, insofar as their past deeds are concerned....And I do remember all the crap gone through with PSC.

My point is that the power plant and mining practices, as they currently exist, put the total lie to the enviroloon claim that the locals are suffering under any kind of environmental nightmare scenario.


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## Kevinthedog (Sep 18, 2011)

Oddball said:


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yep. took a while but it's getting better. see what happens when folks work TOGETHER? you are also probably aware how the ranchers and "greenies" have banded together against the gas companies that have been building gas wells everywhere on the BLM land out there.
interesting stuff.


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## Disenchanted61 (Sep 18, 2011)

Oddball said:


> Really?
> 
> I have a ski condo in Steamboat Springs...I'll likely be hanging out there this winter.
> 
> ...


  On February 26, 2010, local citizens staged a protest at the haed quarters for Xcel Energy in opposition to the utilitys plan to build a new coali fired power plant, Camanche3 , in Pueblo, Co.
The plant would be the largest in the coal-fired power plant state. Protesters sited environmental as well as social and economic issues as resons for their actions.
"Our leaders are failing to lead and Xcel is failing to take their responsibility seriously.
Xcel should expect more protests and actions unless they start closing down coal plants 
and moving Colorado to 100% renewable electricity."

The protest was part of an ongoing (series) of actions by concerned (citizens) in (Colorado) who seek to end coal-power in the (state).

What do ya know goof-ball


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## Oddball (Sep 18, 2011)

Protests by a bunch of enviroloons don't change the fact that coal towns are not the environmental disaster areas that you claimed they were.

You gotta try harder than that, if you're going to try and change the subject.


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## Kevinthedog (Sep 18, 2011)

Oddball said:


> Protests by a bunch of enviroloons don't change the fact that coal towns are not the environmental disaster areas that you claimed they were.
> 
> You gotta try harder than that, if you're going to try and change the subject.



but be honest...coal companies fought enviro regulations and were forced by law to clean up their "act". surely you know this. the hayden power plant issue is a great example of how corporations use the system....and cost everyone money. If mining cvompanies were "good neighbors" in the first place, we wouldnt need any regulations at all. the idea that pollution is an acceptable exchange for profit is old-school and out-dated.


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## Oddball (Sep 18, 2011)

Kevinthedog said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > Protests by a bunch of enviroloons don't change the fact that coal towns are not the environmental disaster areas that you claimed they were.
> ...


I get that part.

However, protesting a _*brand new*_ plant, with all the compliant scrubbers and converters, in order to pimp far more inefficient "renewables", is plain old ridiculous.


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## Kevinthedog (Sep 18, 2011)

Oddball said:


> Kevinthedog said:
> 
> 
> > Oddball said:
> ...



well, I'm kinda on the middle here.....I do think we need to rethink our energy needs.....but I dont have any solutions!!!!!


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## Kevinthedog (Sep 18, 2011)

Oddball said:


> Kevinthedog said:
> 
> 
> > Oddball said:
> ...



Now you're making get all nostolgic about NW Colorado. man, do I miss elk hunting there! you ever go up into the flat tops? I could show you some serious trout holes up there!


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## Oddball (Sep 18, 2011)

Nope...I go for the big pike at Stagecoach or smallmouth at Elkhead, if I'm ever around during fishing season.


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## RGR (Sep 18, 2011)

eflatminor said:


> Disenchanted61 said:
> 
> 
> > After the environmental disasters that lay in the wake of nuclear fallout; surely you jest.
> ...



Not fair! This only works because nukes kill so few people! Using this form of measure, if we could just stop people from driving, think of the thousands we could save!


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## Disenchanted61 (Sep 18, 2011)

Oddball said:


> Protests by a bunch of enviroloons don't change the fact that coal towns are not the environmental disaster areas that you claimed they were.
> 
> You gotta try harder than that, if you're going to try and change the subject.



   Here is the pile of dog shit you stepped in dude:

     September 2011: Boulder citizens for renewal municipality;

   Citizens of Boulder, Colorado started a group called Renewables Yes to push for the 
formation of a municipality to provide its citizens with electrical services in Boulder.
The group has held meetings and is working on creating a municipal electric utility
for the town (powered by renewables).
I have a whole lot more info, but I am waiting to hear from you to either put up, or shut up
because so far nothing of substance has come from your assertions.


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## Disenchanted61 (Sep 18, 2011)

Oddball said:


> You've convinced me....We all oughtta go back to burning wood to heat our homes.
> 
> That'll really clear up the air!


That is not anybody's wish even for myself.
But we need to make the changes where they are most needed with the alternatives that are  at our availability. But no one should be expected  to live in a cave as a result either, the best of both world.


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## Oddball (Sep 18, 2011)

There are presently no economically viable alternatives....If there were, they wouldn't need tens of billions of taxpayer dollars to prop them up.


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## Oddball (Sep 18, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > Protests by a bunch of enviroloons don't change the fact that coal towns are not the environmental disaster areas that you claimed they were.
> ...



So, a bunch of Boulder environutters forms a group, to nag politicians to get involved in the "renewables" scam, turns coal towns like Craig and Hayden into environmental wastelands?

Talk about offering up nothing of substance!


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## flacaltenn (Sep 19, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > Protests by a bunch of enviroloons don't change the fact that coal towns are not the environmental disaster areas that you claimed they were.
> ...



Renewables in Boulder?? what exactly would that be? Got a list? Think Boulder is a great place for a solar farm?

Hey I've got -- it's Biomass ain't it? Cut down trees and burn them to boil water. Eco-nut blessed aint' it? How's that diff from burning coal?


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## Kevinthedog (Sep 19, 2011)

Oddball said:


> Nope...I go for the big pike at Stagecoach or smallmouth at Elkhead, if I'm ever around during fishing season.



I used to float down the yampa from the state pull off to craig, we caught some huge pike. and smallmouth down in juniper canyon some over 4 lbs. full of crayfish fat as heck. I've heard the F and G is elimating these exotic species! to save the squawfish~! and other native fish.


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## DiamondDave (Sep 19, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


> DiamondDave said:
> 
> 
> > Disenchanted61 said:
> ...



Post your specific and cited scientific facts about all the issues we have from fallout from nuke plants...

we're waiting... we've BEEN waiting


Sorry, jackass, it is YOU who have been posting nothing but assumption and ATTEMPTING to push it off as fact


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## DiamondDave (Sep 19, 2011)

And leave it to a nutter to try and use protestors as proof of an assumption about dissasters from nuke plant 'fallout'

This guy needs a refitting on his tinfoil hat


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## Oddball (Sep 19, 2011)

DiamondDave said:


> Disenchanted61 said:
> 
> 
> > DiamondDave said:
> ...


He also invoked the "ask the locals" rubric, when trying to make his spurious and specious claim that coal towns are environmental disaster areas.

Then, when called on his bullshit by one such "local", he dodges, weaves and tries to change the subject.


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## mudwhistle (Sep 19, 2011)

Oddball said:


> Disenchanted61 said:
> 
> 
> > Oddball said:
> ...



Hey...their hearts are in the right place. 

If good intentions could heat my home this Winter then as Peter Sellers would say "our problems are sol-ved".


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