# Iran Placing Medium-Range Missiles in Venezuela; Can Reach the U.S



## Philobeado

"Venezuela has agreed to allow Iran to establish a military base manned by Iranian missile officers, soldiers of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard and Venezuelan missile officers. In addition, Iran has given permission for the missiles to be used in case of an "emergency". In return, the agreement states that Venezuela can use these facilities for "national needs"  radically increasing the threat to neighbors like Colombia.  ....claims that according to the agreement, Iranian Shahab 3 (range 1300-1500 km), Scud-B (285-330 km) and Scud-C (300, 500 and 700 km) will be deployed in the proposed base. It says that Iran also pledged to help Venezuela in rocket technology expertise, including intensive training of officers."

Iran Placing Medium-Range Missiles in Venezuela; Can Reach the U.S. :: Hudson New York


----------



## WillowTree

Libruls laughed in my face when I told them this would happen.


----------



## Philobeado

"The situation that is unfolding in Venezuela has some resemblance to the Cuba crisis of 1962. At that time, Cuba was acting on behalf of the USSR; now Venezuela is acting on behalf of Iran. At present, the geopolitical situation is very different: the world is no longer ruled by two superpowers; new nations, often with questionable leaders and the ambition of acquiring global status, are appearing on the international scene. Their danger to the free world will be greater if the process of nuclear proliferation is not stopped. Among the nations that aspire to become world powers, Iran has certainly the best capabilities of posing a challenge to the West.

Back in the 1962, thanks to the stern stance adopted by the then Kennedy administration, the crisis was defused

Nowadays, however, we do not see the same firmness from the present administration. On the contrary, we see a lax attitude, both in language and in deeds, that results in extending hands when our adversaries have no intention of shaking hands with us. Iran is soon going to have a nuclear weapon, and there are no signs that UN sanctions will in any way deter the Ayatollah's regime from completing its nuclear program. We know that Iran already has missiles that can carry an atomic warhead over Israel and over the Arabian Peninsula. Now we learn that Iran is planning to build a missile base close to the US borders. How longer do we have to wait before the Obama administration begins to understand threats?"


----------



## Ropey

When Obama goes, so goes his apathy...

What I call cowardice... We see it in how he gave in to the Republicans over his lamented tax cuts to the very rich.

He's as useless as teats on the proverbial bore.

I await 2015...


----------



## Jeremy

That's not good.


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

We have to put a stop to this now.


----------



## uscitizen

It appears to be over 1500KM from the USA to VZ.


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

I'm officially changing my mind/position; pull all or damn near all troops outta Iraq NOW, to be readied for Iranian liberation/neutralization ASAP. 

The threat is real, present, and still festering, this is also just more evidence that that Latino Hitler needs to be dealt with, he's clearly the biggest threat to our national security in this hemisphere.


----------



## geauxtohell

(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> I'm officially changing my mind/position; pull all or damn near all troops outta Iraq NOW, to be readied for Iranian liberation/neutralization ASAP.
> 
> The threat is real, present, and still festering, this is also just more evidence that that Latino Hitler needs to be dealt with, he's clearly the biggest threat to our national security in this hemisphere.



But we've always been at war with Oceania.........


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

This is clearly the biggest threat to our national security since 9/11, which was also the last time I was this pissed off and concerned bout this issue.

Ball in your court Obama.....


----------



## geauxtohell

(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> This is clearly the biggest threat to our national security since 9/11, which was also the last time I was this pissed off and concerned bout this issue.
> 
> Ball in your court Obama.....



Assuming this OPED is true, which is a stretch, why is war the first answer or even a consideration?

In fact, why do we have to resort to violence?

For fuck's sake, I'll never get why people in this country are so paranoid.

It's like the biggest kid on the block being scared of his own shadow.

Hopefully, the guy running the show now will show some frigging common sense before launching another fucked up "preventive war".


----------



## Baruch Menachem

Presuming they can actually launch them, which has been problematical.


----------



## Mr. H.

Chavvy isn't stupid. He'll let the Iranians set it all up, equip and train personel, then nationalize the whole package and kick the 'ranians out


----------



## Baruch Menachem

That has been the way he does thing on a regular basis.

What he does to others, he will do to you


----------



## ekrem

Iran is planning to place medium-range missiles on Venezuelan soil, based on western information sources*[1]*
Iran Placing Medium-Range Missiles in Venezuela; Can Reach the U.S. :: Hudson New York

*[1]* Achse Caracas-Teheran: Iran plant Bau einer Raketenstellung in Venezuela - Nachrichten Politik - Ausland - WELT ONLINE

It's German, and it says "Welt Online" has found out from "western security-circles"...


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

geauxtohell said:


> [QUOTE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming this OPED is true, which is a stretch, why is war the first answer or even a consideration?
> 
> 
> 
> Cuz diplomacy with those nuts has failed time and time again, they only pretend to talk with us to buy time, you seriously that blind?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, why do we have to resort to violence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Refer to above.
> 
> *For fuck's sake, I'll never get why people in this country are so paranoid.*
> Refer to above again....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's like the biggest kid on the block being scared of his own shadow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That shadow wasn't run by apocalypse obsessed Islamofascists rabidly chasing nuke tech. while calling for our "vanishing"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully, the guy running the show now will show some frigging common sense before launching another fucked up "preventive war".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes!  Freedom from dictators be dammed!  Lets tie more up and push em off buildings while we gas their relatives.
> 
> You're sickening.
Click to expand...


----------



## ekrem

Some "security circles" also found some Yellowcake in Niger some years ago.


----------



## ekrem

It's like the Roadrunner and Coyote.
The roadrunner in this case were the mobile WMD-laboratories and the missiles which could be launched within 45 minutes.
The Coyote (USA) never could catch them.


----------



## uscitizen

Is the fear buildup to the 2012 presidential race beginning already?
We need the Palinator?


----------



## geauxtohell

(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> You're sickening.



And you are a useful tool.

You motherfuckers never learn.


----------



## zzzz

Won't happen. The missiles if ever shipped will never be permitted to land in South America. The threat potential of a nuclear armed missile controlled by Iran targeting Texas is more than any American president or congress can allow. This secret agreement was just reached a couple months ago and is nowhere near happening. I think it is Iran's pushing this president to see how far they can go. This is too far and we will see the appropriate responses in the upcoming months if this deal germinates any further.


----------



## uscitizen

Aww if it could only reach Texas that is not so bad is it?


----------



## Ropey

uscitizen said:


> Aww if it could only reach Texas that is not so bad is it?



And there's the beauty of free speech. 

Try saying the same thing about Yazd when you are in Tehran.  







And we've got a few pointed at them


----------



## geauxtohell

Ropey said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aww if it could only reach Texas that is not so bad is it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And there's the beauty of free speech.
> 
> Try saying the same thing about Yazd when you are in Tehran.
> 
> And we've got a few pointed at them
Click to expand...


You are from Canada.  What is this "we" shit?

Your ass won't be over there if the shit goes down.


----------



## Ropey

I am a third generation Canadian, who happens to be a practicing Jew.  I volunteered in the Canadian forces when I was twenty years old in sixty eight.  I still remember the boot camp songs fondly as the songs an Army sings whilst marching says much about their countries philosophy. By seventy Sadat had been saying quite a bit in and out of the UN for a few years. Finally it was seen that he was moving militarily in conjunction with some other of our foe from past times.

Canada has a federal forces defense transfer agreement with Israel that extends to actual forces if they are Jewish. So does America, but America only started theirs after the seventy three war. Canada started this agreement after Prime Minister Lester B. Pearson worked to draft the partition agreement AND fight the already growing Muslim bloc. 

Inserted as a Props to Prime Minister Stephen Harper. A man that I have had luncheon with, and who truly understands what Iran is and how it is driven to "Hasten" the end. 

I transferred to the Israel Defense forces. I lived there for seven years, trained and fought in the seventy three war.  I saw more death than I would have liked to and and I know that there is only one way to deal with a fascist ideology.  Appeasement only works in the short term, and history shows that the longer one appeases, the worse the final conflicts. 

At any rate, I came back to my home (Israel is my love). That's what Diaspora means to a Jew. My son is in the IDF now and another is a Canadian DART. 

For the Jew, Diaspora is NOT a "Get Out Of Jail Free Card"! With Twenty thousand Hezbollah stationed illegally in the South of Lebanon and who are more than proxies of Iran, they are Shia as well. Iran has been running Lebanon militarily for years now. So much so that Nejad runs around to the borders of Israel. 

I might be to old to fight any more, G-d willing that Israel does not have to be destroyed for the world to see that appeasement of such an ideology will not end well.

I have paid enough dues to feel that I have my say.



geauxtohell said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aww if it could only reach Texas that is not so bad is it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And there's the beauty of free speech.
> 
> Try saying the same thing about Yazd when you are in Tehran.
> 
> And we've got a few pointed at them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are from Canada.  What is this "we" shit?
> 
> Your ass won't be over there if the shit goes down.
Click to expand...


----------



## uscitizen

Why would we need to attack Iran for a missle base in VZ anyway?
A couple or 3 non nuke cruise missles would take it out if necessary.
A lot cheaper than invading Iran anyway.


----------



## KissMy

(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> I'm officially changing my mind/position; pull all or damn near all troops outta Iraq NOW, to be readied for Iranian liberation/neutralization ASAP.
> 
> The threat is real, present, and still festering, this is also just more evidence that that Latino Hitler needs to be dealt with, he's clearly the biggest threat to our national security in this hemisphere.



You do realize that by having our troops in Iraq & Afghanistan we have Iran surrounded?


----------



## Ropey

uscitizen said:


> Why would we need to attack Iran for a missle base in VZ anyway?
> A couple or 3 non nuke cruise missles would take it out if necessary.
> A lot cheaper than invading Iran anyway.



There's no need to attack Iran. I am not saying attack Iran. I am saying that to this Jew, a few missiles pointed Nejad's way isn't a bad thing.

There will not be very many troops in the arena when America begins to fight. I put forward that if America decides to attack Iran, it will not do it until it has moved at least eighty percent of its forces out of the arena as they are nothing more than sitting ducks to the Iranians. 

It would be a mass slaughter of Americans if the war started today. 

America knows what they are doing. In the midst of all the attacks, it is steadfast. The exercise that is Democracy will, to my eyes prevail. 

[QUO0TE=KissMy;3070327]





(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> I'm officially changing my mind/position; pull all or damn near all troops outta Iraq NOW, to be readied for Iranian liberation/neutralization ASAP.
> 
> The threat is real, present, and still festering, this is also just more evidence that that Latino Hitler needs to be dealt with, he's clearly the biggest threat to our national security in this hemisphere.



You do realize that by having our troops in Iraq & Afghanistan we have Iran surrounded?






[/QUOTE]


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

KissMy said:


> (R)IGHTeous 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm officially changing my mind/position; pull all or damn near all troops outta Iraq NOW, to be readied for Iranian liberation/neutralization ASAP.
> 
> The threat is real, present, and still festering, this is also just more evidence that that Latino Hitler needs to be dealt with, he's clearly the biggest threat to our national security in this hemisphere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize that by having our troops in Iraq & Afghanistan we have Iran surrounded?
Click to expand...


Or move them into Iran, fine, whatever.


----------



## Quantum Windbag

uscitizen said:


> It appears to be over 1500KM from the USA to VZ.



There apparently some cities I do not know about somewhere in the Florida Keys.

That said, it is theoretically possible to fire a medium range missile and let it fly ballistic to extend its range. this will result in a massive degradation in accuracy, but it would possibly extend the range to Miami. That would not be good.


----------



## uscitizen

Miama to Caracas is 2226 KM.

Far NW VZ is over 1500 KM to Key west.

You might want to look at a map.


----------



## Quantum Windbag

uscitizen said:


> Aww if it could only reach Texas that is not so bad is it?



Florida is closer to Venezuela than Texas. Letting Iran nuke all those Hispanics would probably reflect negatively on the Democrats.


----------



## Quantum Windbag

uscitizen said:


> Miama to Caracas is 2226 KM.
> 
> Far NW VZ is over 1500 KM to Key west.
> 
> You might want to look at a map.



Do I need to spell it out specifically when I agree with your point? Or are there actually some cities in the Keys I am unaware of?


----------



## Jos

> Both countries strengthen their relationship &#8211; at all levels. A secret agreement also provides for common ground-ground missiles.
> 
> Iran wants on Venezuelan soil as a basis for medium-range missiles up and deepen the strategic cooperation with the regime of Hugo Chávez. How &#8220;World Online&#8221; learned from Western security sources, an agreement between the two countries during the last visit of the Venezuelan president in Tehran on 19 Signed in October. The previously undisclosed contract provides for the establishment of a jointly operated military base in Venezuela and the joint development of ground-ground missiles.
> 
> The agreement follows a recommendation of the Supreme Security Council of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Ali Khamenei, religious leader a few months ago. According to information of this newspaper, the Security Council had proposed a joint military facility on Venezuelan soil to increase the deterrent power of Iran against the West. The cooperation would be a way for Iran, a strategic base in the South American continent to build &#8211; in the backyard of the United States.
> 
> After &#8220;World Online&#8221; Information Venezuela has agreed in the agreement, to allow Iran to establish a military base, which should be manned by Iranian missile officers, soldiers of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard and Venezuelan missile officers. The base is mainly as a storage location for strategic Iranian weapons serve. In addition, Iran has given permission to be allowed in case of emergency missile shoot down of mobile bases. In return, it says in the agreement that Venezuela can use the basis for &#8220;national needs&#8221;. This would increase the threat to neighbors like Colombia. Iran also pledged to help Venezuela to expertise in rocket technology, such as intensive training of officers.


 read the rest at link




Venezuela: Iran&#8217;s Great Prophet Is Speaking To Obama&#8230;


----------



## Kalam

Surround a country with your military and whine when they put their bottle rockets within 2,000 miles of you. That's classic hypocrisy.


----------



## Ropey

Kalam said:


> Surround a country with your military and whine when they put their bottle rockets within 2,000 miles of you. That's classic hypocrisy.



Coming from one who whines about his treatment by another member and then begs another member to support him instead of standing to it himself?  

OK.



Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I fail to see why you consider this to be a major problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see the danger it poses to Israel...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, and you may want to tell that Jewish gadfly Marc39 that I don't read anything he posts. I tried telling him myself, but the poor little guy didn't quite get it in spite of his 5 Princeton degrees or whatever it is that he claims to have these days.
Click to expand...




Ropey said:


> That is your case with him Kalam. If you do not stand yourself, why do you expect others to stand for you?
> 
> In discussion?
> 
> Come on. Really?  I was a little boy when I was taught that "Sticks and Stones Will Break My Bones But Names Will Never Hurt Me."
> 
> Now I didn't respond when you made it personal, why would I stand to your being attacked with words?
> 
> Then you couch it in terms of my race?
> 
> OK
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you ask me to overlook... in one sentence and then attempt to use me as a servant to carry your negative waves with another?
> 
> I am not a servant. This is why I did not create that thread.
> 
> You may have discerned that and not attempted to twice use me thus which says far more about you than it does about Marc.
> 
> Since you called me in on this I will respond. I would not have otherwise.
> 
> I say Marc takes you head on, and you attempt to use me as a proxy.  Like Iran is doing with Hezbollah and Hamas etc. etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's impossible for me to engage him in any sort of discussion because he does nothing but post babyish insults. That you've said nothing in response to his trollish name-calling and open racism is quite telling. This is a pattern I've noticed among Zionist Jews in general -- you seem to never criticize any of your own, even if they're clearly nothing but pests. He used to insult another Jewish poster her by calling her a "whore" and similar names; she says nothing against him. If a "Muslim" conducted himself in such a matter, I'd kick him to the curb immediately. Do you people have no shame or principles?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...




Ropey said:


> Are you serious? In discussion with words?
> 
> I will leave the entire thread with this personal view and it is to be taken as my personal view, no more, although it is not of my creation.
> 
> *Profanity is the sign of a weak mind, attempting to express itself forcibly and failing miserably.*
> 
> I stand to this as a personal choice. Every other human being including you can make your own stance with what they are willing to accept and what they are not willing to accept.
> 
> Stand up for yourself if it bothers you Kalam. It doesn't bother me, but I've been around since the days of the university BBS's.
> 
> I just bypass stuff I don't want to read. There's more than a few I bypass here already. It's just words. If you don't like them, then take control of your life and your choices rather than attempt to enlist others in your inability to either accept or attack Marc on his grounds.
> 
> The same with television. Someone is an actor in a show. You don't like this show of his? Change the channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is your case with him Kalam. If you do not stand yourself, why do you expect others to stand for you?
> 
> In discussion?
> 
> Come on. Really?  I was a little boy when I was taught that "Sticks and Stones Will Break My Bones But Names Will Never Hurt Me."
> 
> Now I didn't respond when you made it personal, why would I stand to your being attacked with words?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're missing the point. The most vocal representative of your ideology on this board is a childish and openly racist troll, and you seem to have no problem with this.
> 
> 
> 
> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then you couch it in terms of my race?
> 
> OK
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your ideology, hence the "Zionist" qualifier.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...




Ropey said:


> Here is what I wonder. I know Muslims like servants. We have seen this one who is a converted Sunni demanding me, a Jew, to stand for what should be his own stand.
> 
> Why? Islam says that Muslims can only defend other Muslims in the ummah. Let him find his own to protect him. Or, gasp, maybe he will learn to stand up for himself??
> 
> It reminds me of the non converted Arabians who call themselves Palestinians, begging for a homeland to be given to them. Rather than do the hard work that every other country that is not Arabian has had to do to create a country.
> 
> Wot?



It would seem that you have a great understanding of your charge.


----------



## High_Gravity

Ahmadinjad is ok with sending Iranian Revolutionary Guards to Venezuela to enjoy hot Latina pussy and Tequila? isn't that against Islams teachings?


----------



## Kalam

Ropey said:


> Coming from one who whines about his treatment by another member and then begs another member to support him instead of standing to it himself?
> 
> OK.



_"You may want to tell..." _

That's "begging" if I ever heard it. But yesterday, wasn't it "demanding"? 

Either way, I can see that you've gone and gotten your Huggies in a twist over nothing. Whining, exaggerating, changing your story, and refusing to move on are all behaviors that are typical of today's Zionists. I gave you the benefit of the doubt, though, just as I always have.


----------



## Ropey

Of course. When it is coming from you, it is simply...



			
				Kalam Complaining and then Demanding said:
			
		

> It's impossible for me to engage him in any sort of discussion because he does nothing but post babyish insults. That you've said nothing in response to his trollish name-calling and open racism is quite telling. This is a pattern I've noticed among Zionist Jews in general -- you seem to never criticize any of your own, even if they're clearly nothing but pests. He used to insult another Jewish poster her by calling her a "whore" and similar names; she says nothing against him. If a "Muslim" conducted himself in such a matter, I'd kick him to the curb immediately. Do you people have no shame or principles?





Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coming from one who whines about his treatment by another member and then begs another member to support him instead of standing to it himself?
> 
> OK.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _"You may want to tell..." _
> 
> That's "begging" if I ever heard it. But yesterday, wasn't it "demanding"?
> 
> Either way, I can see that you've gone and gotten your Huggies in a twist over nothing. Whining, exaggerating, changing your story, and refusing to move on are all behaviors that are typical of today's Zionists. I gave you the benefit of the doubt, though, just as I always have.
Click to expand...


----------



## Intense

WillowTree said:


> Libruls laughed in my face when I told them this would happen.



Tho only things the Lib's have in a situation like this, is enough white flags to pass out.


----------



## Kalam

Ropey said:


> Of course. When it is coming from you, it is simply...



Oh, I complain all the time, but I'm apparently no different from you in that respect. I'm having a bit of trouble remembering where I demanded anything of you, though, so you might help me out with that. 

Speaking of hypocrisy, I would never have expected someone who criticized Muslims' sensitivity to get so frustrated over message board nothings!


----------



## Ropey

Frustrated? 

Methinks you wish me to be frustrated, but you will not see frustration in any of my posts, that is unless you put it in there yourself.

But complaining, that's a common factor certainly even if you do it far more than I and your request turned into a demand when you indicted my race for what a single Jew is doing.

But you don't see that.


----------



## Kalam

Ropey said:


> Frustrated?
> 
> Methinks you wish me to be frustrated, but you will not see frustration in any of my posts, that is unless you put it in there yourself.


Dwelling this much on something I said in a message board post is a pretty clear indication that it has you frustrated.



Ropey said:


> But complaining, that's a common factor certainly even if you do it far more than I and your request turned into a demand when you indicted my race for what a single Jew is doing.
> 
> But you don't see that.


I know that Zionists so desperately want to believe that everyone who opposes their ideology has it in for the Jews, but that isn't and will never be the case. Frankly, though, I don't care if you imply that I'm anti-Semitic because I'm called that anyway for opposing the squatter state. It's never been about race. 

Can we now move on to discussing Iran's missiles?


----------



## Kalam

Ropey said:


> Not at all. You clarified the intractability of Islam, and that is what I continue to speak towards. You are simply a drop of confirmation in the sea of Islam's proven intractability.
> 
> Your arrogance is that you seem to think you know my emotional character. You tell me what I am feeling?
> 
> So, not only do you follow an intractable belief. You also attack others reasons for their views.
> 
> You will not even allow me my own feelings, choosing to instead tell me what and how I feel.
> 
> OK



Poor you. 

And now you're lecturing me about arrogance when it's you who invokes crude ethnic stereotypes, attempts to tell me about the nature of my own religion based on severely limited knowledge, rewards this sort of Nazi venom with a pat on the back, and generally seems to have the attitude of a 19th century orientalist.


----------



## Ropey

> Can we now move on to discussing Iran's missiles?



Indeed. Clearly we have our own understanding of each other and their views.

And I allow you your own feelings. I will not attempt to tell what feelings your views birth from.

_I do not expect the same from you as you do not practice that civility and that characteristic is regardless of belief Kalam._


----------



## Ropey

Ropey said:


> Can we now move on to discussing Iran's missiles?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. Clearly we have our own understanding of each other and our views.
> 
> And I allow you your own feelings. I will not attempt to tell what feelings your views birth from.
> 
> _I do not expect the same from you as you do not practice that civility and that characteristic is regardless of belief Kalam._
Click to expand...


As well, I won't indict your race or belief for that characteristic. It is a personal choice.

And a few missiles pointed Iran's way is not a bad thing to my view.


----------



## geauxtohell

Ropey said:


> I am a third generation Canadian, who happens to be a practicing Jew.  I volunteered in the Canadian forces when I was twenty years old in sixty eight.  I still remember the boot camp songs fondly as the songs an Army sings whilst marching says much about their countries philosophy. By seventy Sadat had been saying quite a bit in and out of the UN for a few years. Finally it was seen that he was moving militarily in conjunction with some other of our foe from past times.
> 
> Canada has a federal forces defense transfer agreement with Israel that extends to actual forces if they are Jewish. So does America, but America only started theirs after the seventy three war. Canada started this agreement after Prime Minister Lester B. Pearson worked to draft the partition agreement AND fight the already growing Muslim bloc.
> 
> Inserted as a Props to Prime Minister Stephen Harper. A man that I have had luncheon with, and who truly understands what Iran is and how it is driven to "Hasten" the end.
> 
> I transferred to the Israel Defense forces. I lived there for seven years, trained and fought in the seventy three war.  I saw more death than I would have liked to and and I know that there is only one way to deal with a fascist ideology.  Appeasement only works in the short term, and history shows that the longer one appeases, the worse the final conflicts.
> 
> At any rate, I came back to my home (Israel is my love). That's what Diaspora means to a Jew. My son is in the IDF now and another is a Canadian DART.
> 
> For the Jew, Diaspora is NOT a "Get Out Of Jail Free Card"! With Twenty thousand Hezbollah stationed illegally in the South of Lebanon and who are more than proxies of Iran, they are Shia as well. Iran has been running Lebanon militarily for years now. So much so that Nejad runs around to the borders of Israel.
> 
> I might be to old to fight any more, G-d willing that Israel does not have to be destroyed for the world to see that appeasement of such an ideology will not end well.
> 
> I have paid enough dues to feel that I have my say.



You said "We". I wasn't aware that Canada had missiles pointing at Iran. I respect your service, and after seeing the Canadian Army in Afghanistan, I certainly respect the Canadian Army.  

My point was that someone else or their kids will pay the price for other people's blood lust.  

I also respect that your religion influences your foreign policy views.  However, most Americans (to include me) want to see us honor our treaties with Israel.  However, we don't feel that starting pre-emptive wars with Iran with a secondary goal of ensuring Israel's survival is an appropriate use of American lives and resources.

That means Israel is going to have to at least take the first hit.


----------



## geauxtohell

Intense said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Libruls laughed in my face when I told them this would happen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tho only things the Lib's have in a situation like this, is enough white flags to pass out.
Click to expand...


You right-wingers are so bad-ass and tough.

What's next?  France jokes?

I think I've heard this act before.


----------



## uscitizen

Sounds like it is getting time for Freedom Fries agani?


----------



## daveman

Baruch Menachem said:


> Presuming they can actually launch them, which has been problematical.



Nonsense!


----------



## Ropey

I am a dual citizen of Canada and Israel. I was speaking as an Israeli citizen.

Blood lust?

I assume you are speaking to someone else as I don't think you will see anything but a life of Israel lust.

I have seen more than enough blood, thank you very much. But I also know that more blood now can often mean less blood later, but I would far rather NO blood. 

Let's look at Afghanistan and Iraq. Both wars were handled in ways that meant more blood. Firstly the ball was dropped in Afghanistan by moving on Iraq. Moving on Iraq opened Iran up to increasing its potential. 

And Israel is a one bomb country when it comes to fissionable war.

And you say that Israel must take the first hit?

I understand you.



geauxtohell said:


> You said "We". I wasn't aware that Canada had missiles pointing at Iran. I respect your service, and after seeing the Canadian Army in Afghanistan, I certainly respect the Canadian Army.
> 
> My point was that someone else or their kids will pay the price for other people's blood lust.
> 
> I also respect that your religion influences your foreign policy views.  However, most Americans (to include me) want to see us honor our treaties with Israel.  However, we don't feel that starting pre-emptive wars with Iran with a secondary goal of ensuring Israel's survival is an appropriate use of American lives and resources.
> 
> That means Israel is going to have to at least take the first hit.


----------



## uscitizen

Unless I am mistaken a lot of our intellegence info that led up to the Iraq invasion came from Israel?


----------



## Ropey

uscitizen said:


> Unless I am mistaken a lot of our intellegence info that led up to the Iraq invasion came from Israel?



Israel was and is part of the intelligence community in the Middle East. 

Do you think America just relies on the intelligence of other communities? You think that they can not tell what is going on in the middle east? They just get taken in by the Jews? Right?

OK 

I've heard this before.


----------



## xotoxi

geauxtohell said:


> (R)IGHTeous 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm officially changing my mind/position; pull all or damn near all troops outta Iraq NOW, to be readied for Iranian liberation/neutralization ASAP.
> 
> The threat is real, present, and still festering, this is also just more evidence that that Latino Hitler needs to be dealt with, he's clearly the biggest threat to our national security in this hemisphere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But we've always been at war with Oceania.........
Click to expand...


But, Winston, we _ARE _Oceania.


----------



## uscitizen

Ropey said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless I am mistaken a lot of our intellegence info that led up to the Iraq invasion came from Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was and is part of the intelligence community in the Middle East.
> 
> Do you think America just relies on the intelligence of other communities? You think that they can not tell what is going on in the middle east? They just get taken in by the Jews? Right?
> 
> OK
> 
> I've heard this before.
Click to expand...


Apparently we could not tell our ass from an excavation in respect to Iraq.
And I think Israel may well have contributed to our helping them out with a pesky neighbor.


----------



## Ropey

Please clarify your position.

Iraq attempted to circumvent America's ability to maintain their middle eastern oil hegemony, which is to secure, transfer, tax and insure the middle eastern oil. Iran is now attempting the same thing. That's the kernel. Not Israel. Not the Palestinians.

My personal view?

That's why Iraq was entered into by a President who, being shorter than his father, wanted to finish what dear old dad started. Contrary to all advice against it, he went with old oil and their desire to maintain the hegemony, and his own desires, wrestled the constitution a bit,  and went forward. 

Keep in mind that Saddam was playing the game of pretending he had these weapons. He was still worried about Iran and now America was taking out his Food for Oil fiasco. 

And by the way. 

What I am saying to rebut your view that Israel at best, gave biased information and at worst doctored or outright lied in information in order to support an attack on Iraq is that Israel is far less secure than it was before the Invasion of Iraq.  Iraq was no danger to Israel. We had second generation Patriots and had knocked their reactor out. 

No reason at all, but of course there are those who will say best and worst in your scenario regarding information sharing.

I understand.  I've heard it before. It's possible. Anything is possible. I personally doubt it. 




uscitizen said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless I am mistaken a lot of our intellegence info that led up to the Iraq invasion came from Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was and is part of the intelligence community in the Middle East.
> 
> Do you think America just relies on the intelligence of other communities? You think that they can not tell what is going on in the middle east? They just get taken in by the Jews? Right?
> 
> OK
> 
> I've heard this before.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently we could not tell our ass from an excavation in respect to Iraq.
> And I think Israel may well have contributed to our helping them out with a pesky neighbor.
Click to expand...


----------



## xotoxi

geauxtohell said:


> (R)IGHTeous 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is clearly the biggest threat to our national security since 9/11, which was also the last time I was this pissed off and concerned bout this issue.
> 
> Ball in your court Obama.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming this OPED is true, which is a stretch, why is war the first answer or even a consideration?
> 
> In fact, why do we have to resort to violence?
> 
> For fuck's sake, I'll never get why people in this country are so paranoid.
> 
> It's like the biggest kid on the block being scared of his own shadow.
> 
> Hopefully, the guy running the show now will show some frigging common sense before launching another fucked up "preventive war".
Click to expand...


Duck and Cover!!!


----------



## R.C. Christian

LOL, I don't believe any of this.


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

My only issue with this whole page is Israel having to take this 1st hit.

I'm amazed they haven't moved on Iran's reactors already, but I know when they have enough, credible intelligence that suggests a final, unavoidable threat, they will indeed hit 1st, and they should have our full support in this.


----------



## Kalam

(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> My only issue with this whole page is Israel having to take this 1st hit.
> 
> I'm amazed they haven't moved on Iran's reactors already, but I know when they have enough, credible intelligence that suggests a final, unavoidable threat, they will indeed hit 1st, and they should have our full support in this.



You should head on over and enlist; I'm sure they'd be glad to have you.


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

Kalam said:


> (R)IGHTeous 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My only issue with this whole page is Israel having to take this 1st hit.
> 
> I'm amazed they haven't moved on Iran's reactors already, but I know when they have enough, credible intelligence that suggests a final, unavoidable threat, they will indeed hit 1st, and they should have our full support in this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should head on over and enlist; I'm sure they'd be glad to have you.
Click to expand...


A fond thought I've actually entertained before.  But if the Navy here discharged me for asthma, so will their Army, oh well.


----------



## Kalam

(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (R)IGHTeous 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My only issue with this whole page is Israel having to take this 1st hit.
> 
> I'm amazed they haven't moved on Iran's reactors already, but I know when they have enough, credible intelligence that suggests a final, unavoidable threat, they will indeed hit 1st, and they should have our full support in this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should head on over and enlist; I'm sure they'd be glad to have you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I fond thought I've actually entertained before.  But if the Navy here discharged me for asthma, so will their Army, oh well.
Click to expand...


Damn shame. Now you won't get to pick off toddlers in the Gaza strip like the rest of the Zionist apes in the IDF.


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

Kalam said:


> (R)IGHTeous 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should head on over and enlist; I'm sure they'd be glad to have you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I fond thought I've actually entertained before.  But if the Navy here discharged me for asthma, so will their Army, oh well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Damn shame. Now you won't get to pick off toddlers in the Gaza strip like the rest of the Zionist apes in the IDF.
Click to expand...


Well my good man, if those demonic, terrorist pieces of shit would stop using said toddlers, and women as shields.....or new recruits, there'd be no problem.

Pass that message along?  And those shirts are awesome.


----------



## Douger

I have an idea. Let China put a missile "defense"shield in Cuba and Russia could put one in Mexico.
Fair is fair.


----------



## R.C. Christian

Omg missiles in vz!


----------



## Kalam

(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (R)IGHTeous 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I fond thought I've actually entertained before.  But if the Navy here discharged me for asthma, so will their Army, oh well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Damn shame. Now you won't get to pick off toddlers in the Gaza strip like the rest of the Zionist apes in the IDF.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well my good man, if those demonic, terrorist pieces of shit would stop using said toddlers, and women as shields.....or new recruits, there'd be no problem.
Click to expand...


Just like this one, right? 

Not guilty. The Israeli captain who emptied his rifle into a Palestinian schoolgirl | World news | The Guardian



(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> Pass that message along?  And those shirts are awesome.



Oh, so shooting pregnant women and children is "awesome"? Thanks for the example of Zionist morality, baboon. This is how subhumans like you who do that sort of thing are dealt with:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHvFBM765d8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHvFBM765d8[/ame]

Why don't you take a nice trip over to the Middle East?


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

*Kalam wrote:*



> Just like this one, right?
> 
> Not guilty. The Israeli captain who emptied his rifle into a Palestinian schoolgirl | World news | The Guardian


Nice try again....not really.  I could pull up articles of indiscriminate Hamas and Hezbollah shellings of many Israeli towns, or victims of suicide bombers and their testimonies, want me to?  I doubt it, cuz you know they're out there, and number greater than the sad but freak incident you posted.



> Oh, so shooting pregnant women and children is "awesome"? Thanks for the example of Zionist morality, baboon. This is how subhumans like you who do that sort of thing are dealt with:


Unless my eyes deceive me, both the pregnant women and child are holding weapons, and therefore and obvious, mortal threats.  

You're just not very bright huh, lol you set yourself up for that one.  Thanks tho, I find you amusing.


----------



## Kalam

(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> Nice try again....not really.  I could pull up articles of indiscriminate Hamas and Hezbollah shellings of many Israeli towns, or victims of suicide bombers and their testimonies, want me to?  I doubt it, cuz you know they're out there, and number greater than the sad but freak incident you posted.


Yeah, sure. Why don't you run a quick comparison -- tell me the number of people that those indiscriminate shellings have killed and see how it measures up to the number of innocents killed in the Gaza massacre of 2008-2009.



(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> Unless my eyes deceive me, both the pregnant women and child are holding weapons, and therefore and obvious, mortal threats.


Unless my eyes deceive me, you described killing them as "awesome," implying that you'd take pleasure in the killing of a child or a pregnant woman. I guess it would be "awesome" if some bastard nailed this little guy in the head, right, monkey? After all, doesn't he pose a "mortal threat" since he happens to be holding a weapon? 








(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> You're just not very bright huh, lol you set yourself up for that one.  Thanks tho, I find you amusing.


Yeah... how about you master the English Language before you go around insulting other peoples' intelligence?



(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> and therefore and obvious


----------



## Marc39

Kalam said:


> (R)IGHTeous 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice try again....not really.  I could pull up articles of indiscriminate Hamas and Hezbollah shellings of many Israeli towns, or victims of suicide bombers and their testimonies, want me to?  I doubt it, cuz you know they're out there, and number greater than the sad but freak incident you posted.
Click to expand...


What, no love for the millions slaughtered by IslamoNazis in Darfur and southern Sudan, slave of allah 



> The genocide in Darfur has claimed 400,000 lives and displaced over 2,500,000 people. More than one hundred people continue to die each day; five thousand die every month.
> 
> Since February 2003, the Sudanese government in Khartoum and the government-sponsored Janjaweed militia have used rape, displacement, organized starvation, threats against aid workers and mass murder. Violence, disease, and displacement continue to kill thousands of innocent Darfurians every month.


Genocide in Darfur, Sudan | Darfur Scorecard
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-ojg9UjMk0[/ame]

Allahu fucku!

Meanwhile, Israel is the ONLY country providing safe haven the refugees from Sudan.  Here, Muslim Sudanese are seen proudly waiving Israeli flags and praising Israeli democracy....
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGa2_8tgsKw[/ame]


----------



## Marc39

Kalam said:


> Why don't you take a nice trip over to the Middle East?



I live in the Middle East, Abu.  Most Israeli Arabs prefer democratic, free Israel to any other country in the world, including the fascist Arab Muslim shitholes.



> *Cambridge, MA (May 15, 2008) &#8211; A new study released today finds strong support for coexistence efforts amongst a majority of Jewish and Arab citizens of Israel. The findings may buoy hopes for long-term peace in the region.*
> 
> *77% of Arab citizens would rather live in Israel than in any other country in the world.*


Center for Public Leadership - Coexistence



*I am an Israeli Arab and I support Israel*.  


> *Why?  Because, I can express myself freely.  I'm a free man living in a free country.  With my family situation, if I was living in an Arab country, I will be killed long time ago.  With my mind and my way of living and my way of thinking, I'm surely already have been killed long time ago.
> 
> Why?  Because, I love freedom.  I adore liberty.  And, in Israel, simply, you can express that.  Can you imagine if you were a Jewish man living in an Arab country and Parliament member and trying to curse your country, they will kill you straight away.  Look what Israel is doing with Arabs in Parliament, they listen, it's a democracy, no problem.  They [Arabs] are shouting freely against Israel in the Parliament.  This is the truth.*
> 
> I'm proud to be  an Arab living in Israel.  I know Arabs they will hate me and kill me, but I don't care.  I care about the truth.  The truth is there is no much problems with Arabs in Israel.   Poor people in Israel if they want to study in the university and clever, they can apply to the university and if they are really wise they can go study free.  And, they don't have to pay even if they are an Arab.  Israel gives you an opportunity to learn free.
> 
> There are very good things in Israel.  Health security, in Israel if you are Arab and have any medical problem, you can be fixed for free,  You don't pay a penny.  They give you life security, no problem.  You can work like everyone and you get your pension.  Everyone in Israel have a pension.  Arabs and Jewish they get the same.   Arab doctor and Jewish doctor, they get the same salary.  Arab teacher and Jewish teacher, they get the same salary.
> 
> Arab student and Jewish student they get the same education.  It's the same.  The dreams of life, quite the same.  If you are good citizen, you have no problems.  You can live free.  You can go wherever you like.  You can choose, you can get inside any group you want.
> 
> Honestly, I served in the Israeli army.  What is the problem?  You want to tell me Arabs don't kill each other?  Look in Iraq, they are brothers living in the same neighborhood and they are killing each other.  I'm living here, my family is here, everyone I care about is here--my wife, my daughters is here.  This is the truth: I'm proud being an Arab living in Israel.


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbrIWyEhl8A[/ame]


----------



## rdean

Philobeado said:


> "Venezuela has agreed to allow Iran to establish a military base manned by Iranian missile officers, soldiers of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard and Venezuelan missile officers. In addition, Iran has given permission for the missiles to be used in case of an "emergency". In return, the agreement states that Venezuela can use these facilities for "national needs"  radically increasing the threat to neighbors like Colombia.  ....claims that according to the agreement, Iranian Shahab 3 (range 1300-1500 km), Scud-B (285-330 km) and Scud-C (300, 500 and 700 km) will be deployed in the proposed base. It says that Iran also pledged to help Venezuela in rocket technology expertise, including intensive training of officers."
> 
> Iran Placing Medium-Range Missiles in Venezuela; Can Reach the U.S. :: Hudson New York



The distance from Los Angeles to Buenos Aires is 9800 km.

Do the "math".


----------



## daveman

Kalam said:


> (R)IGHTeous 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should head on over and enlist; I'm sure they'd be glad to have you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I fond thought I've actually entertained before.  But if the Navy here discharged me for asthma, so will their Army, oh well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Damn shame. Now you won't get to pick off toddlers in the Gaza strip like the rest of the Zionist apes in the IDF.
Click to expand...

What's keeping you from suiting up and doing something about it?


----------



## Jos

daveman said:


>



What's that, a redneck's camelbak?


----------



## Marc39

Jos said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> [SIZE="]What's that, a redneck's camelbak?[/SIZE]:ll:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mahomet was a Muslim redneck: He was illiterate, lived in a cave, drove a camel and married a 6 year old girl when he was 53.
Click to expand...


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

*Kalam wrote:*


> Yeah, sure. Why don't you run a quick comparison -- tell me the number of people that those indiscriminate shellings have killed and see how it measures up to the number of innocents killed in the Gaza massacre of 2008-2009.



Victims of Palestinian Violence and Terrorism since September 2000
1,194 people have been killed by Palestinian violence and terrorism since September 2000.

Note: This list also includes 18 Israelis killed abroad in terror attacks directed specifically against Israeli targets, and 3 American diplomatic personnel killed in Gaza.
Not listed are 9 IDF soldiers killed during the ground operation against Hamas terror in Gaza (27 Dec 2008 - 18 Jan 2009). 

8,342 Israelis wounded in terror attacks
2001-2007

Sept 27, 2000 - Sgt. David Biri, 19, of Jerusalem, was fatally wounded in a bombing near Netzarim in the Gaza Strip.

*Sept 29, 2000 - Border Police Supt. Yosef Tabeja, 27, of Ramle was shot to death by his Palestinian counterpart on a joint patrol near Kalkilya.
*
Oct 1, 2000 - Border Police Cpl. Madhat Yusuf, 19, of Beit Jann, died of gunshot wounds sustained in a gun battle with Palestinians at Joseph's Tomb in Nablus.

Oct 2, 2000 - Wichlav Zalsevsky, 24, of Ashdod, was shot in the head in the village of Masha on the trans-Samaria highway.

Sgt. Max Hazan, 20, of Dimona, died of gunshot injuries sustained near Beit Sahur.

Oct 8, 2000 - The bullet-riddled body of Hillel Lieberman, 36, of Elon Moreh was found at the southern entrance to Nablus.

*Oct 12, 2000 - First Cpl. Yosef Avrahami and First Sgt. Vadim Norzhich, 33, two reserve IDF soldiers, were lynched by a Palestinian mob at the police building in Ramallah.*

*Oct 19, 2000 - Rabbi Binyamin Herling, 64, of Kedumim, was killed when Fatah members and Palestinian security forces opened fire on a group of Israeli men, women, and children on a trip at Mount Ebal near Nablus.*

Oct 28, 2000 - The body of Marik Gavrilov, 25, of Bnei Aysh was found inside his burned-out car, between the village of Bitunia and Ramallah. 

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Palestinian+terror+since+2000/Victims+of+Palestinian+Violence+and+Terrorism+sinc.htm


----------



## rdean

(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> *Kalam wrote:*
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, sure. Why don't you run a quick comparison -- tell me the number of people that those indiscriminate shellings have killed and see how it measures up to the number of innocents killed in the Gaza massacre of 2008-2009.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Victims of Palestinian Violence and Terrorism since September 2000
> 1,194 people have been killed by Palestinian violence and terrorism since September 2000.
> 
> Note: This list also includes 18 Israelis killed abroad in terror attacks directed specifically against Israeli targets, and 3 American diplomatic personnel killed in Gaza.
> Not listed are 9 IDF soldiers killed during the ground operation against Hamas terror in Gaza (27 Dec 2008 - 18 Jan 2009).
> 
> 8,342 Israelis wounded in terror attacks
> 2001-2007
> 
> Sept 27, 2000 - Sgt. David Biri, 19, of Jerusalem, was fatally wounded in a bombing near Netzarim in the Gaza Strip.
> 
> *Sept 29, 2000 - Border Police Supt. Yosef Tabeja, 27, of Ramle was shot to death by his Palestinian counterpart on a joint patrol near Kalkilya.
> *
> Oct 1, 2000 - Border Police Cpl. Madhat Yusuf, 19, of Beit Jann, died of gunshot wounds sustained in a gun battle with Palestinians at Joseph's Tomb in Nablus.
> 
> Oct 2, 2000 - Wichlav Zalsevsky, 24, of Ashdod, was shot in the head in the village of Masha on the trans-Samaria highway.
> 
> Sgt. Max Hazan, 20, of Dimona, died of gunshot injuries sustained near Beit Sahur.
> 
> Oct 8, 2000 - The bullet-riddled body of Hillel Lieberman, 36, of Elon Moreh was found at the southern entrance to Nablus.
> 
> *Oct 12, 2000 - First Cpl. Yosef Avrahami and First Sgt. Vadim Norzhich, 33, two reserve IDF soldiers, were lynched by a Palestinian mob at the police building in Ramallah.*
> 
> *Oct 19, 2000 - Rabbi Binyamin Herling, 64, of Kedumim, was killed when Fatah members and Palestinian security forces opened fire on a group of Israeli men, women, and children on a trip at Mount Ebal near Nablus.*
> 
> Oct 28, 2000 - The body of Marik Gavrilov, 25, of Bnei Aysh was found inside his burned-out car, between the village of Bitunia and Ramallah.
> 
> Victims of Palestinian Terror since Sept 2000
Click to expand...


The distance from Los Angeles to Buenos Aires is 9800 km.  The longest range missile from Iran max's out at 1500 km.  That's 8300 km's short.  What does that have to do with "shelling" someplace else?  Just curious.


----------



## Ropey

Kalam said:


> Oh, so shooting pregnant women and children is "awesome"? Thanks for the example of Zionist morality, baboon.



Women carrying explosives and being pregnant is a media attempt to get her killed so they can take away the weapons and then use the pictures for media support of their cause.

This is where we put our women and children when the fight is on.  






This is what the Arabians who call themselves Palestinians do to their young by using them as self ignition devices to martyrdom.











No different than what the Chechen do with their children:






Chechen Massacre of 350 in Russia.






So, I say, by the nature of the Chechen indiscriminate murder of innocents to further their cause has turned the free and civilized world against them. 

So, to reiterate:

The Muslim Fanatics of Chechnya support their cause by blowing up schools full of children.






Beslan buries their dead.






Palestinians educate their young.

























Jews have been hiding their young away for a long time. They continue to do so.






Because we understand.






Fight the fanatics. Where have we seen this salute before?


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

rdean said:


> (R)IGHTeous 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Kalam wrote:*
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, sure. Why don't you run a quick comparison -- tell me the number of people that those indiscriminate shellings have killed and see how it measures up to the number of innocents killed in the Gaza massacre of 2008-2009.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Victims of Palestinian Violence and Terrorism since September 2000
> 1,194 people have been killed by Palestinian violence and terrorism since September 2000.
> 
> Note: This list also includes 18 Israelis killed abroad in terror attacks directed specifically against Israeli targets, and 3 American diplomatic personnel killed in Gaza.
> Not listed are 9 IDF soldiers killed during the ground operation against Hamas terror in Gaza (27 Dec 2008 - 18 Jan 2009).
> 
> 8,342 Israelis wounded in terror attacks
> 2001-2007
> 
> Sept 27, 2000 - Sgt. David Biri, 19, of Jerusalem, was fatally wounded in a bombing near Netzarim in the Gaza Strip.
> 
> *Sept 29, 2000 - Border Police Supt. Yosef Tabeja, 27, of Ramle was shot to death by his Palestinian counterpart on a joint patrol near Kalkilya.
> *
> Oct 1, 2000 - Border Police Cpl. Madhat Yusuf, 19, of Beit Jann, died of gunshot wounds sustained in a gun battle with Palestinians at Joseph's Tomb in Nablus.
> 
> Oct 2, 2000 - Wichlav Zalsevsky, 24, of Ashdod, was shot in the head in the village of Masha on the trans-Samaria highway.
> 
> Sgt. Max Hazan, 20, of Dimona, died of gunshot injuries sustained near Beit Sahur.
> 
> Oct 8, 2000 - The bullet-riddled body of Hillel Lieberman, 36, of Elon Moreh was found at the southern entrance to Nablus.
> 
> *Oct 12, 2000 - First Cpl. Yosef Avrahami and First Sgt. Vadim Norzhich, 33, two reserve IDF soldiers, were lynched by a Palestinian mob at the police building in Ramallah.*
> 
> *Oct 19, 2000 - Rabbi Binyamin Herling, 64, of Kedumim, was killed when Fatah members and Palestinian security forces opened fire on a group of Israeli men, women, and children on a trip at Mount Ebal near Nablus.*
> 
> Oct 28, 2000 - The body of Marik Gavrilov, 25, of Bnei Aysh was found inside his burned-out car, between the village of Bitunia and Ramallah.
> 
> Victims of Palestinian Terror since Sept 2000
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The distance from Los Angeles to Buenos Aires is 9800 km.  The longest range missile from Iran max's out at 1500 km.  That's 8300 km's short.  What does that have to do with "shelling" someplace else?  Just curious.
Click to expand...


Other than the culprits being to mostly the same violent, terrorist, Satanic proxy family, nothing.  Kalam and I have digressed in case you didn't notice, and I'm intent on proving him wrong.


----------



## Wry Catcher

Another hate and fear posting without any credible source.  Not even an op-ed from someone we've ever heard of or of known background and experience.
And the Henny Penny Polks rolls on, "Oh my, the sky is falling, we must alert the echo chamber".
Chavez and Ahmadinejad maybe mad enough to suggest such a plan, but I cannot believe they would be stupid enough to try and carry it out.
There is one very large problem they need to overcome:  The U.S. Navy.
To suggest Obama or any president would ignore the Monroe Doctrine is absurd, and nothing more than an effort by another troll to stir the emotions.


----------



## Jos

rdean said:


> The distance from Los Angeles to Buenos Aires is 9800 km.  The longest range missile from Iran max's out at 1500 km.  That's 8300 km's short.  What does that have to do with "shelling" someplace else?  Just curious.



Buenos Aires is the capital of Argentina, over 3,000 miles south of venezuela


----------



## daveman

Jos said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> The distance from Los Angeles to Buenos Aires is 9800 km.  The longest range missile from Iran max's out at 1500 km.  That's 8300 km's short.  What does that have to do with "shelling" someplace else?  Just curious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Buenos Aires is the capital of Argentina, over 3,000 miles south of venezuela
Click to expand...


----------



## Ropey

Oh yes, we must teach our young how to protect themselves. And early on for certain.

But when the fighting starts, they are in the bunkers. Whilst the Muslim Arabians who call themselves Palestinians put them on the front lines of their door to door fights. They strap explosives to them and blow them up when soldiers come to respond to the attacks on Israel.

A major difference. 






Remember this picture? Islamofascism is the modern fight.



Kalam said:


> (R)IGHTeous 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice try again....not really.  I could pull up articles of indiscriminate Hamas and Hezbollah shellings of many Israeli towns, or victims of suicide bombers and their testimonies, want me to?  I doubt it, cuz you know they're out there, and number greater than the sad but freak incident you posted.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, sure. Why don't you run a quick comparison -- tell me the number of people that those indiscriminate shellings have killed and see how it measures up to the number of innocents killed in the Gaza massacre of 2008-2009.
> 
> 
> 
> (R)IGHTeous 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless my eyes deceive me, both the pregnant women and child are holding weapons, and therefore and obvious, mortal threats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unless my eyes deceive me, you described killing them as "awesome," implying that you'd take pleasure in the killing of a child or a pregnant woman. I guess it would be "awesome" if some bastard nailed this little guy in the head, right, monkey? After all, doesn't he pose a "mortal threat" since he happens to be holding a weapon?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (R)IGHTeous 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're just not very bright huh, lol you set yourself up for that one.  Thanks tho, I find you amusing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah... how about you master the English Language before you go around insulting other peoples' intelligence?
> 
> 
> (R)IGHTeous 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> and therefore and obvious
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Jos

(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> *Kalam wrote:*
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, sure. Why don't you run a quick comparison -- tell me the number of people that those indiscriminate shellings have killed and see how it measures up to the number of innocents killed in the Gaza massacre of 2008-2009.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Victims of Palestinian Violence and Terrorism since September 2000
> 1,194 people have been killed by Palestinian violence and terrorism since September 2000.
> 
> Note: This list also includes 18 Israelis killed abroad in terror attacks directed specifically against Israeli targets, and 3 American diplomatic personnel killed in Gaza.
> Not listed are 9 IDF soldiers killed during the ground operation against Hamas terror in Gaza (27 Dec 2008 - 18 Jan 2009).
> 
> 8,342 Israelis wounded in terror attacks
> 2001-2007
> 
> Sept 27, 2000 - Sgt. David Biri, 19, of Jerusalem, was fatally wounded in a bombing near Netzarim in the Gaza Strip.
> 
> *Sept 29, 2000 - Border Police Supt. Yosef Tabeja, 27, of Ramle was shot to death by his Palestinian counterpart on a joint patrol near Kalkilya.
> *
> Oct 1, 2000 - Border Police Cpl. Madhat Yusuf, 19, of Beit Jann, died of gunshot wounds sustained in a gun battle with Palestinians at Joseph's Tomb in Nablus.
> 
> Oct 2, 2000 - Wichlav Zalsevsky, 24, of Ashdod, was shot in the head in the village of Masha on the trans-Samaria highway.
> 
> Sgt. Max Hazan, 20, of Dimona, died of gunshot injuries sustained near Beit Sahur.
> 
> Oct 8, 2000 - The bullet-riddled body of Hillel Lieberman, 36, of Elon Moreh was found at the southern entrance to Nablus.
> 
> *Oct 12, 2000 - First Cpl. Yosef Avrahami and First Sgt. Vadim Norzhich, 33, two reserve IDF soldiers, were lynched by a Palestinian mob at the police building in Ramallah.*
> 
> *Oct 19, 2000 - Rabbi Binyamin Herling, 64, of Kedumim, was killed when Fatah members and Palestinian security forces opened fire on a group of Israeli men, women, and children on a trip at Mount Ebal near Nablus.*
> 
> Oct 28, 2000 - The body of Marik Gavrilov, 25, of Bnei Aysh was found inside his burned-out car, between the village of Bitunia and Ramallah.
> 
> Victims of Palestinian Terror since Sept 2000
Click to expand...






1,084 Israelis and at least 6,430 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/


----------



## Ropey

If someone breaks into my house and has a knife, I will not be looking for a knife to defend myself. I will use a gun. 

Responding with equal force is foolish. Israel is far more advance  militarily and will always respond with a greater degree of force.






Palestine is down the grade. I will update you in two years.




Jos said:


> Victims of Palestinian Terror since Sept 2000







1,084 Israelis and at least 6,430 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000[/quote]


----------



## Jos

Ropey said:


> If someone breaks into my house and has a knife, I will not be looking for a knife to defend myself. I will use a gun.
> 
> Responding with equal force is foolish. Israel is far more advance  militarily and will always respond with a greater degree of force.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is down the grade. I will update you in two years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Victims of Palestinian Terror since Sept 2000
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1,084 Israelis and at least 6,430 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000
Click to expand...

[/QUOTE]
Understand the Palestinians perspective, If some Russians stole your land, backed by the Worlds (current) only superpower, and called you the Terrorist for fighting back?


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

Ropey said:


> Oh yes, we must teach our young how to protect themselves. And early on for certain.
> 
> But when the fighting starts, they are in the bunkers. Whilst the Muslim Arabians who call themselves Palestinians put them on the front lines of their door to door fights. They strap explosives to them and blow them up when soldiers come to respond to the attacks on Israel.
> 
> A major difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remember this picture? Islamofascism is the modern fight.
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (R)IGHTeous 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice try again....not really.  I could pull up articles of indiscriminate Hamas and Hezbollah shellings of many Israeli towns, or victims of suicide bombers and their testimonies, want me to?  I doubt it, cuz you know they're out there, and number greater than the sad but freak incident you posted.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, sure. Why don't you run a quick comparison -- tell me the number of people that those indiscriminate shellings have killed and see how it measures up to the number of innocents killed in the Gaza massacre of 2008-2009.
> 
> 
> Unless my eyes deceive me, you described killing them as "awesome," implying that you'd take pleasure in the killing of a child or a pregnant woman. I guess it would be "awesome" if some bastard nailed this little guy in the head, right, monkey? After all, doesn't he pose a "mortal threat" since he happens to be holding a weapon?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah... how about you master the English Language before you go around insulting other peoples' intelligence?
> 
> 
> (R)IGHTeous 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> and therefore and obvious
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


I know, he makes no sense, but was nothing grammatically wrong with that not counting any slang I use.


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

Jos said:


> (R)IGHTeous 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Kalam wrote:*
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, sure. Why don't you run a quick comparison -- tell me the number of people that those indiscriminate shellings have killed and see how it measures up to the number of innocents killed in the Gaza massacre of 2008-2009.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Victims of Palestinian Violence and Terrorism since September 2000
> 1,194 people have been killed by Palestinian violence and terrorism since September 2000.
> 
> Note: This list also includes 18 Israelis killed abroad in terror attacks directed specifically against Israeli targets, and 3 American diplomatic personnel killed in Gaza.
> Not listed are 9 IDF soldiers killed during the ground operation against Hamas terror in Gaza (27 Dec 2008 - 18 Jan 2009).
> 
> 8,342 Israelis wounded in terror attacks
> 2001-2007
> 
> Sept 27, 2000 - Sgt. David Biri, 19, of Jerusalem, was fatally wounded in a bombing near Netzarim in the Gaza Strip.
> 
> *Sept 29, 2000 - Border Police Supt. Yosef Tabeja, 27, of Ramle was shot to death by his Palestinian counterpart on a joint patrol near Kalkilya.
> *
> Oct 1, 2000 - Border Police Cpl. Madhat Yusuf, 19, of Beit Jann, died of gunshot wounds sustained in a gun battle with Palestinians at Joseph's Tomb in Nablus.
> 
> Oct 2, 2000 - Wichlav Zalsevsky, 24, of Ashdod, was shot in the head in the village of Masha on the trans-Samaria highway.
> 
> Sgt. Max Hazan, 20, of Dimona, died of gunshot injuries sustained near Beit Sahur.
> 
> Oct 8, 2000 - The bullet-riddled body of Hillel Lieberman, 36, of Elon Moreh was found at the southern entrance to Nablus.
> 
> *Oct 12, 2000 - First Cpl. Yosef Avrahami and First Sgt. Vadim Norzhich, 33, two reserve IDF soldiers, were lynched by a Palestinian mob at the police building in Ramallah.*
> 
> *Oct 19, 2000 - Rabbi Binyamin Herling, 64, of Kedumim, was killed when Fatah members and Palestinian security forces opened fire on a group of Israeli men, women, and children on a trip at Mount Ebal near Nablus.*
> 
> Oct 28, 2000 - The body of Marik Gavrilov, 25, of Bnei Aysh was found inside his burned-out car, between the village of Bitunia and Ramallah.
> 
> Victims of Palestinian Terror since Sept 2000
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1,084 Israelis and at least 6,430 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000
> 
> If Americans Knew - what every American needs to know about Israel/Palestine
Click to expand...


Saw this when I was searching, tis true, wouldn't be tho if they stopped starting wars with Israel, and using women and children as shields.  They really only have themselves to blame.


----------



## Kalam

(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> *Kalam wrote:*
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, sure. Why don't you run a quick comparison -- tell me the number of people that those indiscriminate shellings have killed and see how it measures up to the number of innocents killed in the Gaza massacre of 2008-2009.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Victims of Palestinian Violence and Terrorism since September 2000
> 1,194 people have been killed by Palestinian violence and terrorism since September 2000.
> 
> Note: This list also includes 18 Israelis killed abroad in terror attacks directed specifically against Israeli targets, and 3 American diplomatic personnel killed in Gaza.
> Not listed are 9 IDF soldiers killed during the ground operation against Hamas terror in Gaza (27 Dec 2008 - 18 Jan 2009).
> 
> 8,342 Israelis wounded in terror attacks
> 2001-2007
> 
> Sept 27, 2000 - Sgt. David Biri, 19, of Jerusalem, was fatally wounded in a bombing near Netzarim in the Gaza Strip.
> 
> *Sept 29, 2000 - Border Police Supt. Yosef Tabeja, 27, of Ramle was shot to death by his Palestinian counterpart on a joint patrol near Kalkilya.
> *
> Oct 1, 2000 - Border Police Cpl. Madhat Yusuf, 19, of Beit Jann, died of gunshot wounds sustained in a gun battle with Palestinians at Joseph's Tomb in Nablus.
> 
> Oct 2, 2000 - Wichlav Zalsevsky, 24, of Ashdod, was shot in the head in the village of Masha on the trans-Samaria highway.
> 
> Sgt. Max Hazan, 20, of Dimona, died of gunshot injuries sustained near Beit Sahur.
> 
> Oct 8, 2000 - The bullet-riddled body of Hillel Lieberman, 36, of Elon Moreh was found at the southern entrance to Nablus.
> 
> *Oct 12, 2000 - First Cpl. Yosef Avrahami and First Sgt. Vadim Norzhich, 33, two reserve IDF soldiers, were lynched by a Palestinian mob at the police building in Ramallah.*
> 
> *Oct 19, 2000 - Rabbi Binyamin Herling, 64, of Kedumim, was killed when Fatah members and Palestinian security forces opened fire on a group of Israeli men, women, and children on a trip at Mount Ebal near Nablus.*
> 
> Oct 28, 2000 - The body of Marik Gavrilov, 25, of Bnei Aysh was found inside his burned-out car, between the village of Bitunia and Ramallah.
> 
> Victims of Palestinian Terror since Sept 2000
Click to expand...


Well, let's see... you provided a list comprised almost completely of Israeli soldiers in response to a question about civilian deaths. Would you like to try again?


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

Kalam said:


> (R)IGHTeous 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Kalam wrote:*
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, sure. Why don't you run a quick comparison -- tell me the number of people that those indiscriminate shellings have killed and see how it measures up to the number of innocents killed in the Gaza massacre of 2008-2009.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Victims of Palestinian Violence and Terrorism since September 2000
> 1,194 people have been killed by Palestinian violence and terrorism since September 2000.
> 
> Note: This list also includes 18 Israelis killed abroad in terror attacks directed specifically against Israeli targets, and 3 American diplomatic personnel killed in Gaza.
> Not listed are 9 IDF soldiers killed during the ground operation against Hamas terror in Gaza (27 Dec 2008 - 18 Jan 2009).
> 
> 8,342 Israelis wounded in terror attacks
> 2001-2007
> 
> Sept 27, 2000 - Sgt. David Biri, 19, of Jerusalem, was fatally wounded in a bombing near Netzarim in the Gaza Strip.
> 
> *Sept 29, 2000 - Border Police Supt. Yosef Tabeja, 27, of Ramle was shot to death by his Palestinian counterpart on a joint patrol near Kalkilya.
> *
> Oct 1, 2000 - Border Police Cpl. Madhat Yusuf, 19, of Beit Jann, died of gunshot wounds sustained in a gun battle with Palestinians at Joseph's Tomb in Nablus.
> 
> Oct 2, 2000 - Wichlav Zalsevsky, 24, of Ashdod, was shot in the head in the village of Masha on the trans-Samaria highway.
> 
> Sgt. Max Hazan, 20, of Dimona, died of gunshot injuries sustained near Beit Sahur.
> 
> Oct 8, 2000 - The bullet-riddled body of Hillel Lieberman, 36, of Elon Moreh was found at the southern entrance to Nablus.
> 
> *Oct 12, 2000 - First Cpl. Yosef Avrahami and First Sgt. Vadim Norzhich, 33, two reserve IDF soldiers, were lynched by a Palestinian mob at the police building in Ramallah.*
> 
> *Oct 19, 2000 - Rabbi Binyamin Herling, 64, of Kedumim, was killed when Fatah members and Palestinian security forces opened fire on a group of Israeli men, women, and children on a trip at Mount Ebal near Nablus.*
> 
> Oct 28, 2000 - The body of Marik Gavrilov, 25, of Bnei Aysh was found inside his burned-out car, between the village of Bitunia and Ramallah.
> 
> Victims of Palestinian Terror since Sept 2000
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, let's see... you provided a list comprised almost completely of Israeli soldiers in response to a question about civilian deaths. Would you like to try again?
Click to expand...


The link lists EVERY Israeli killed, and related statistics, the examples I listed were the most damming, soldier or not.  You obviously didn't even bother to look.

Wanna embarrass yourself again?


----------



## Ropey

The Arabians who call themselves Palestinians send rockets into Israel.  The attack is on anyone living in Israel. When Israel responds it should  do so with it's citizens?

I don't think so. That's what the Arabians who call themselves Palestinians do, not Israeli.

The difference between a Palestinian civilian and a Muslim fanatic  terrorist is  the weapons they take off of them after they've been  killed by Israeli responses to their attacks so as to turn them into  civilians. 

  Chechen fanatics do exactly the same. I used to have a better concern  for them until they started using fanatic Islamic terrorism as a focal  point to their demand for sovereignty.

Now, they are no different than the Arabians who call themselves  Palestinians.  Fighting a far greater power with their children is  fanaticism. Calling them martyrs before they even get a true chance to  live to further a demand for sovereignty? 

Insanity!

Using their young and women to explode themselves around innocent  civilians as they say there are no such thing as innocent civilians. So,  reap what you sow, as the Arabians who call themselves Palestinians.



Kalam said:


> Well, let's see... you provided a list comprised   almost completely of Israeli soldiers in response to a question about   civilian deaths. Would you like to try again?


----------



## Ropey

(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> The link lists EVERY Israeli killed, and related statistics, the examples I listed were the most damming, soldier or not.  You obviously didn't even bother to look



Of course he didn't as it doesn't fit his outlook. That's why Islam forbids so much.


----------



## rdean

Jos said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> The distance from Los Angeles to Buenos Aires is 9800 km.  The longest range missile from Iran max's out at 1500 km.  That's 8300 km's short.  What does that have to do with "shelling" someplace else?  Just curious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Buenos Aires is the capital of Argentina, over 3,000 miles south of venezuela
Click to expand...


I know.  And that gave the the opportunity to say, "Venezuela" is at least 4000 km from Texas.  That means those missiles are still short by 2500 km.


----------



## rdean

What right wingers fail to understand is that Hugo Chavez isn't going to attack a "money tree", especially since Republicans made it possible for him to invest heavily in American Elections.  And seriously, we know he's going to support Republicans.  They share so many of the same values.

Remember, it was the Conservative Supreme Court under Justice Roberts that made American companies "citizens".  Citgo is an American company, it just happens to be owned by Hugo Chavez.

USATODAY.com - Has Citgo become a political tool for Hugo Chvez?

But in fact there's nothing ordinary about Citgo. One of the USA's largest refiners, Citgo is a subsidiary of Venezuela's state-owned oil company, Petroleos de Venezuela S.A. (PDVSA). As such, it ultimately belongs to Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez, an avowedly anti-American leader who counts Fidel Castro among his closest friends and mocks President Bush as a "genocidal murderer."

Republicans can't help but fuck up anything they touch.  I think it's part of their "party platform" or something.


----------



## Quantum Windbag

rdean said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> The distance from Los Angeles to Buenos Aires is 9800 km.  The longest range missile from Iran max's out at 1500 km.  That's 8300 km's short.  What does that have to do with "shelling" someplace else?  Just curious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Buenos Aires is the capital of Argentina, over 3,000 miles south of venezuela
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.  And that gave the the opportunity to say, "Venezuela" is at least 4000 km from Texas.  That means those missiles are still short by 2500 km.
Click to expand...


Texas is not the closest state to Venezuela.

Just to educate you on what it means when someone says a missile has a range of 1500 km, that is an estimate, not a solid number. The longest sniper shot ever was over 2400 meters, which is further the new sniper rifle that the Army is just pushing out is rated for, and a lot further than the rifle that made the shot was supposed to be able to shoot. If rifles can shoot further than their range missiles can too.


----------



## daveman

rdean said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> The distance from Los Angeles to Buenos Aires is 9800 km.  The longest range missile from Iran max's out at 1500 km.  That's 8300 km's short.  What does that have to do with "shelling" someplace else?  Just curious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Buenos Aires is the capital of Argentina, over 3,000 miles south of venezuela
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.
Click to expand...

Well, NOW you do.


----------



## Quantum Windbag

rdean said:


> What right wingers fail to understand is that Hugo Chavez isn't going to attack a "money tree", especially since Republicans made it possible for him to invest heavily in American Elections.  And seriously, we know he's going to support Republicans.  They share so many of the same values.
> 
> Remember, it was the Conservative Supreme Court under Justice Roberts that made American companies "citizens".  Citgo is an American company, it just happens to be owned by Hugo Chavez.
> 
> USATODAY.com - Has Citgo become a political tool for Hugo Chvez?
> 
> But in fact there's nothing ordinary about Citgo. One of the USA's largest refiners, Citgo is a subsidiary of Venezuela's state-owned oil company, Petroleos de Venezuela S.A. (PDVSA). As such, it ultimately belongs to Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez, an avowedly anti-American leader who counts Fidel Castro among his closest friends and mocks President Bush as a "genocidal murderer."
> 
> Republicans can't help but fuck up anything they touch.  I think it's part of their "party platform" or something.


----------



## Ropey

As well, Iran has stated they have modified this missile and the range is of ~2500 km targeted.

This means ~3,000km non targeted delivery, and these missiles are capable of dealing out fissionable warheads.


> The modifications made to the _Shahab 3_ are a huge step in the development and independence of the Iranian missile program. Whereas earlier Iranian missile developments could usually be traced to foreign sources, the modifications to the Shahab 3 appear to be domestic technologies.
> 
> The progress of the Shahab 3, from the mid-1990s to the present, represents the progress of Iranian missile independence and the growing international threat of Iranian aspirations. In the mid-1990s, Iran was building modified &#8216;Scud&#8217; missiles with foreign assistance; in 2009, Iran successfully launched a satellite on a domestically-built rocket. The future of the Iranian program, in the Shahab 5 and 6, could extend their missile range into Europe.







Quantum Windbag said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Buenos Aires is the capital of Argentina, over 3,000 miles south of venezuela
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know.  And that gave the the opportunity to say, "Venezuela" is at least 4000 km from Texas.  That means those missiles are still short by 2500 km.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Texas is not the closest state to Venezuela.
> 
> Just to educate you on what it means when someone says a missile has a range of 1500 km, that is an estimate, not a solid number. The longest sniper shot ever was over 2400 meters, which is further the new sniper rifle that the Army is just pushing out is rated for, and a lot further than the rifle that made the shot was supposed to be able to shoot. If rifles can shoot further than their range missiles can too.
Click to expand...


----------



## Ropey

I never said I didn't understand their perspective and yes, they have one. What I am saying and have been saying is that the method they have used to gain what they want, which clearly was not a country, is not working. For sixty years they have suffered, but more due to their 'brethren benefactors' than the Israel that has enough to worry about maintaining its sovereignty which is a sixty plus year done deal.

I am saying that they need to work within the given framework. They are not any different genetically than the Jordanians who contain 80% of the Palestinian partition. They are no different genetically than the Lebanese or the Syrians.

I am saying that if they continue to use the peace process with their proxy supporters to arm and continue a war, then it is on their backs.

Not Israels. 



Jos said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> If someone breaks into my house and has a knife, I will not be looking for a knife to defend myself. I will use a gun.
> 
> Responding with equal force is foolish. Israel is far more advance  militarily and will always respond with a greater degree of force.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is down the grade. I will update you in two years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Victims of Palestinian Terror since Sept 2000
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1,084 Israelis and at least 6,430 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Understand the Palestinians perspective, If some Russians stole your land, backed by the Worlds (current) only superpower, and called you the Terrorist for fighting back?[/QUOTE]


----------



## Ropey

Palestine was administered by Great Britain under the Mandate until forty six when Trans Jordan was granted independence. In one fell swoop, sovereignty in eighty percent of Palestine had been awarded to the Arabian. Israel was created by the United Nations by vote. The British Mandate had already been dissolved. The British Mandate CREATED Jordan with almost eighty percent of the land called Palestine. Why was an "Arabian Dynasty" given almost the entirety of the "Palestinian" land? Should it be taken back Jos? On November forty seven the United Nations recommended that both a Jewish State and an Arabian State be created in the remainder of the Mandated territory west of the Jordan River, and that Jerusalem be internationalized. Even though this was dramatically favorable to the Arabian, the Jews accepted the proposal. The Arabians rejected it as they wanted it all.

They still do. It is not about peace with the Arabians who call themselves Palestinians. It has always been about the destruction of the Sovereign State of Israel. 

Palestinian Statehood has been hijacked by these Arabian (And now Iranian/Turkish) States who at that time wanted to see another Arabian State in the place of Israel and not a Jewish state. They told the Arabians who call themselves Palestinians and who were actually living in Israel to leave Israel and that they would "Push The Jews Into The Sea".   Now the Iranian and Turkish attempt is to gain their own power in the middle east by attacking the power of Israel and they use the Palestinian issue to continue on in their regard.

To this day, a great majority of the Arabians, Iranians and many Turks. etc. wish the death of Israel. They do not want one inch of the Middle East non Muslim and in control of Muslims. 

The Saudi to this day refuse to even shake hands with Jews. They refused before Israel was even a thought. This is not uncommon in the Arabian world and so peace needs to be regional. The issue is NOT Palestinian Statehood, although that is a component of middle east wide peace. The real issue is that Muslim countries need to move onward and create a peace with an economic block.



Jos said:


> Understand the Palestinians perspective, If some Russians stole your land, backed by the Worlds (current) only superpower, and called you the Terrorist for fighting back?[/SIZE]


----------



## Ropey

(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> I know, he makes no sense, but was nothing grammatically wrong with that not counting any slang I use.



In a discussion of the mind, composition is not a major component. Those who attack the composition of another are usually unable to focus an attack in response to your previous post. 

Rather than do the work of attacking the view, it is far easier to spout off a few lines of contempt.

This is the contempt of the one true belief. I have seen it with Sunni and Shia and be sure that if Israel were not in the middle east there would have been a lot more wars than Saddam's Kuwait fiasco. Just look at that one war.

Saddam was bleeding Kuwait. He said that Iraq's oil was bleeding into Kuwait by advanced drilling techniques and demanded large amounts of money from Kuwait._*(Slant Drilling)*_ into Kuwait. 

After the Iraq/Iran war Saddam badly needed money and began to throttle Kuwait for far greater influxes of funds.

Kuwait, with support from the USA declined the increase.  This was the basic reasoning of Saddam. 

I've lived in the Middle East. I remember the road to Cairo. On the way back, we had to take care of these 'true believers' as prisoners.

Getting food to them was easy. Getting them to not fight with each other, now that took double plus the troops.



Ropey said:


> Kuwait, with support from the USA declined the increase.  This was the basic reasoning of Saddam. :cuckoo.



And they want nuclear weapons?


----------



## Jroc

Ropey said:


> I am a third generation Canadian, who happens to be a practicing Jew.  I volunteered in the Canadian forces when I was twenty years old in sixty eight.  I still remember the boot camp songs fondly as the songs an Army sings whilst marching says much about their countries philosophy. By seventy Sadat had been saying quite a bit in and out of the UN for a few years. Finally it was seen that he was moving militarily in conjunction with some other of our foe from past times.
> 
> Canada has a federal forces defense transfer agreement with Israel that extends to actual forces if they are Jewish. So does America, but America only started theirs after the seventy three war. Canada started this agreement after Prime Minister Lester B. Pearson worked to draft the partition agreement AND fight the already growing Muslim bloc.
> 
> Inserted as a Props to Prime Minister Stephen Harper. A man that I have had luncheon with, and who truly understands what Iran is and how it is driven to "Hasten" the end.
> 
> I transferred to the Israel Defense forces. I lived there for seven years, trained and fought in the seventy three war.  I saw more death than I would have liked to and and I know that there is only one way to deal with a fascist ideology.  Appeasement only works in the short term, and history shows that the longer one appeases, the worse the final conflicts.
> 
> At any rate, I came back to my home (Israel is my love). That's what Diaspora means to a Jew. My son is in the IDF now and another is a Canadian DART.
> 
> For the Jew, Diaspora is NOT a "Get Out Of Jail Free Card"! With Twenty thousand Hezbollah stationed illegally in the South of Lebanon and who are more than proxies of Iran, they are Shia as well. Iran has been running Lebanon militarily for years now. So much so that Nejad runs around to the borders of Israel.
> 
> I might be to old to fight any more, G-d willing that Israel does not have to be destroyed for the world to see that appeasement of such an ideology will not end well.
> 
> I have paid enough dues to feel that I have my say.




Cool.. I envy you. The only problem I have with you're post is Israel will never be destroyed, If that were to ever happen the rest of the free world would soon follow.


----------



## Ropey

Ropey said:
			
		

> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> G-d willing that Israel does not have to be destroyed for the world to see that appeasement of such an ideology will not end well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool.. I envy you. The only problem I have with you're post is Israel will never be destroyed, If that were to ever happen the rest of the free world would soon follow.
Click to expand...


Ah, but our time is not our Lords time. You have a problem with something that is not in our hands Jroc. Divest yourself of that problem and make the choices you have in your life. That's all we truly have.

I have to tell you that I don't think my history is cool. I use it to share who I am with others. The Ten Commandments Jroc. 

I have broken a major commandment. I have used my free will to stand to something that my faith tells me is necessary. 

However, my intellect tells me that I have still killed, and there is a reason why the Ten Commandments supersede ALL ELSE.

This killing sickens me. If you read my posting, I think you will see that I think the mark of civility is when one does not kill their own. We are all moving forward, except for...  They must move forwards together as partners in peace. Not haters waiting for the opportune moment.

Peace must be a true peace. A *Hudna *will just continue the hate taught to their young. A peace such as this will need many generations of change in their teaching. This teaching is from before Israel was even created. 

If it is even possible, a middle east wide peace agreement will need all participants.


----------



## Jroc

Well.... that&#8217;s nice, but there will never be peace in the Middle East. It is there that civilization started and that&#8217;s were it will end. That&#8217;s my belief anyway


----------



## Ropey

Jroc said:


> Well.... that&#8217;s nice, but there will never be peace in the Middle East. It is there that civilization started and that&#8217;s were it will end. That&#8217;s my belief anyway



Iran wishes to hasten their belief along. I'm just happy that Judiasm has the first book of the Abrahamic religions. 

We don't have to toss a three sided die.  When our book was given to us, there were no others.

So, it could be worse.


----------



## Kalam

Ropey said:


> Oh yes, we must teach our young how to protect themselves. And early on for certain.


Yet when we do the same thing for our children, killing them becomes "awesome" according to the warped morality of Zionism and your soldiers brag publicly about murdering them (not that killing children who _don't_ protect themselves has ever been a problem for Zionists.)



Ropey said:


> But when the fighting starts, they are in the bunkers. Whilst the Muslim Arabians who call themselves Palestinians put them on the front lines of their door to door fights. They strap explosives to them and blow them up when soldiers come to respond to the attacks on Israel.



This sort of inaccurate, romanticized propaganda has no place in a real discussion. Zionists like to pretend that they can absolve their butchers of all guilt simply by accusing Hamas of using "human shields." The funny thing about this is that every report on "human shields" that isn't published by a Zionist shill takes note of the use of this tactic by Israel. For example:



			
				The UN said:
			
		

> *United Nations investigators have accused the Israeli army of using an 11-year-old boy as a human shield* during its recent Gaza offensive.
> 
> Their report says troops ordered the boy to walk in front of them for several hours under fire, entering buildings and opening suspect packages.
> 
> The UN team responsible for protection of children in war zones says* it found "hundreds" of similar violations. *
> 
> BBC NEWS | Middle East | Israel army 'used human shields'





			
				Amnesty International said:
			
		

> *Our sources in Gaza report that Israeli soldiers have entered and taken up positions in a number of Palestinian homes*, forcing families to stay in a ground floor room while they use the rest of their house as a military base and sniper position, said Malcolm Smart, Amnesty Internationals Middle East and North Africa Programme. This clearly increases the risk to the Palestinian families concerned and means *they are effectively being used as human shields.*
> 
> Gaza civilians endangered by the military tactics of both sides | Amnesty International





			
				Human Rights Watch said:
			
		

> *IDF soldiers in Jenin engaged in the practice of human shielding, forcing Palestinian civilians to serve as "shields" to protect them from Palestinian militants.* The practice of human shielding is specifically outlawed by international humanitarian law. The in inappropriate use of civilians for other military purposes was also widespread during the IDF operation in Jenin. *In almost every case where IDF soldiers entered civilian homes in the camp, the residents told Human Rights Watch that the IDF soldiers were accompanied by Palestinian civilians. *
> 
> Jenin: IDF Military Operations





			
				B'Tselem said:
			
		

> B'Tselem's initial investigation indicates that, during an incursion by Israeli forces into Beit Hanun, in the northern Gaza Strip, on 17 July 2006, *soldiers seized control of two buildings in the town and used residents as human shield.*
> 
> After seizing control of the buildings, *the soldiers held six residents, two of them minors*, on the staircases of the two buildings, at the entrance to rooms in which the soldiers positioned themselves, for some twelve hours. During this time, there were intense exchanges of gunfire between the soldiers and armed Palestinians. The soldiers also demanded that one of the occupants walk in front of them during a search of all the apartments in one of the buildings, after which they released her.
> 
> B'Tselem - Human Shields - 20 July 2006: Israeli Soldiers use civilians as Human Shields in Beit Hanun



Etc. The last two reports indicate that this has been a popular Zionist practice for nearly a decade at the very least. The Zionists who are aware of this generally fall back on their laughable "everyone is conspiring against Israel" shtick. 

So no, I'm afraid that your butchers still bear the burden of responsibility for the slaughter of Gaza's civilians even if you attribute all of the deaths to "human shielding." You're right about one thing; you keep your children in bunkers because you're perfectly content with using ours to shield yourselves.

Once again, we see that Zionist claims...





...are inconsistent with reality.








Ropey said:


> A major difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remember this picture? Islamofascism is the modern fight.



Islam does not permit working for the benefit of kafir causes, particularly those that involve committing crimes. Apostates of yore are only relevant in the minds of Zionists. You should like Hamas now, anyway, since Haniyah sold out and expressed a willingness to recognize the squatter entity within its 1967 "borders."


----------



## Kalam

(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> The link lists EVERY Israeli killed...





...Which is precisely why it's useless. We're discussing civilian deaths only.


----------



## Jroc

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yes, we must teach our young how to protect themselves. And early on for certain.
> 
> 
> 
> Yet when we do the same thing for our children, killing them becomes "awesome" according to the warped morality of Zionism and your soldiers brag publicly about murdering them (not that killing children who _don't_ protect themselves has ever been a problem for Zionists.)
Click to expand...


You're full of it.. While there might be individual solders that might do such a thing, as happens in any war, Israeli's don't target civilians or use them as human shields. Why would they anyway? Those Arab bastards don't care if they kill their own people they do it all the time they raise their kids to be suicide bombers. Why would they care if in the process of killing a Jew they kill a few of their own? Plus its good propaganda for people like you       




*180,000 Palestinians treated in Israeli hospitals in 2010 (Harriet Sherwood yawns)
November 26, 2010 in Uncategorized | Tags: Comment is Free, Guardian, Hadassah Medical Center, *Harriet Sherwood | by Adam Levick 







Per the IDF website:

Humanitarian dilemmas are a recurring issue in the Judea and Samaria region. A terrorist fires at IDF soldiers, is shot and gets wounded. Is an IDF medic to be called to treat him? A building is about to collapse in the heart of Ramallah. Does the IDF enter? Does it jeopardize its soldiers lives, or does it call the International Red Cross and risk losing precious time?

To Israel, the answer to these questions is clear. According to Division Medical Officer, Lt. Col. Michael Kassirer, The treatment of the Palestinian population is first and foremost a moral and professional obligation for every one of us.

A conference on the topic of humanitarian medicine was held on Monday (Nov. 22), at Hadassah Medical Center at Mount Scopus in Jerusalem.


180,000 Palestinians treated in Israeli hospitals in 2010 (Harriet Sherwood yawns) 





*Israeli planes drop warning pamphlets over Gaza *


IAF planes drop warning pamphlets over Gaza
Arabic pamphlets tell Gazans to stay away from the border fence, saying they risk being shot.
By The Associated Press 

Israel Air Force aircraft have scattered pamphlets over the Gaza Strip warning residents to stay away from the border, The Associated Press reported Monday. 

The heavily guarded border is the scene of sporadic fighting between militants and Israel Defense Forces troops. Israeli forces killed two Palestinian gunmen in a clash on Friday. 

The Arabic pamphlets warned Gazans to stay out of areas 300 meters to 500 meters from the border fence, saying they risk being shot. 

The IDF had no comment. The military has scattered similar warning pamphlets in the past. 

Gaza's Health Ministry said a 10-year-old boy was struck by a box of leaflets and moderately hurt during Monday's airdrop. 

Violence has largely subsided in Gaza following Israel's 3-week offensive against the coastal territory's Hamas rulers in January


IAF planes drop warning pamphlets over Gaza - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News


----------



## Kalam

Jroc said:


> You're full of it.. While there might be individual solders that might do such a thing, as happens in any war, Israeli's don't target civilians or use them as human shields. Why would they anyway? Those Arab bastards don't care if they kill their own people they do it all the time they raise their kids to be suicide bombers. Why would they care if in the process of killing a Jew they kill a few of their own? Plus its good propaganda for people like you



I'm sorry, but crude ethnic stereotypes won't change any of the evidence presented in any of the four reports on Zionist human shield use I provided. Please address the reports' claims with specific evidence from reputable sources -- I'm not interested in hearing another racist whine and make ridiculous generalizations about Arabs.


----------



## rdean

Quantum Windbag said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> What right wingers fail to understand is that Hugo Chavez isn't going to attack a "money tree", especially since Republicans made it possible for him to invest heavily in American Elections.  And seriously, we know he's going to support Republicans.  They share so many of the same values.
> 
> Remember, it was the Conservative Supreme Court under Justice Roberts that made American companies "citizens".  Citgo is an American company, it just happens to be owned by Hugo Chavez.
> 
> USATODAY.com - Has Citgo become a political tool for Hugo Chvez?
> 
> But in fact there's nothing ordinary about Citgo. One of the USA's largest refiners, Citgo is a subsidiary of Venezuela's state-owned oil company, Petroleos de Venezuela S.A. (PDVSA). As such, it ultimately belongs to Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez, an avowedly anti-American leader who counts Fidel Castro among his closest friends and mocks President Bush as a "genocidal murderer."
> 
> Republicans can't help but fuck up anything they touch.  I think it's part of their "party platform" or something.
Click to expand...


You honestly didn't know that Citgo is OWNED by Hugo Chavez?  That Citgo is registered as an "American company" and, because of the Supreme Court, they can put as much money as they want into our political elections?  Don't you guys know anything?


----------



## geauxtohell

Ropey said:


> I am a dual citizen of Canada and Israel. I was speaking as an Israeli citizen.
> 
> Blood lust?
> 
> I assume you are speaking to someone else as I don't think you will see anything but a life of Israel lust.
> 
> I have seen more than enough blood, thank you very much. But I also know that more blood now can often mean less blood later, but I would far rather NO blood.



Perhaps I misunderstood your praying icon after your comment about having missiles pointed at Iran.  For clarification, you do or don't want us to blow the shit out of Iran?



> Let's look at Afghanistan and Iraq. Both wars were handled in ways that meant more blood. Firstly the ball was dropped in Afghanistan by moving on Iraq. Moving on Iraq opened Iran up to increasing its potential.



I agree. 



> And Israel is a one bomb country when it comes to fissionable war.
> 
> And you say that Israel must take the first hit?
> 
> I understand you.



I don't buy that "One bomb country".  Furthermore, any middle eastern country that used a nuke on Israel would incur the wrath of the world.  That's why it is not going to happen.  It's similar to MAD between the USSR and USA.  However, it's basically "Your Assured Destruction".  So basically, you have countries like Iran trying to provoke Israel into striking it first, so It can justify an escalation of the conflict.  

Yes, I think Israel has to take the first hit.  If it makes you feel better, I think the United States should too.  If the past decade taught us anything, it's the notion of "Preventative War" is disastrous.   

I suppose I might support it if there was a real smoking gun.  Such as "We know they have the nukes and are intending to use them on a specific target within the next 24 days".

Other than that, if Israel picks a fight, they shouldn't expect a lot of support from the American people.  Everyone here is sick of war.


----------



## RadiomanATL

rdean said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> What right wingers fail to understand is that Hugo Chavez isn't going to attack a "money tree", especially since Republicans made it possible for him to invest heavily in American Elections.  And seriously, we know he's going to support Republicans.  They share so many of the same values.
> 
> Remember, it was the Conservative Supreme Court under Justice Roberts that made American companies "citizens".  Citgo is an American company, it just happens to be owned by Hugo Chavez.
> 
> USATODAY.com - Has Citgo become a political tool for Hugo Chvez?
> 
> But in fact there's nothing ordinary about Citgo. One of the USA's largest refiners, Citgo is a subsidiary of Venezuela's state-owned oil company, Petroleos de Venezuela S.A. (PDVSA). As such, it ultimately belongs to Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez, an avowedly anti-American leader who counts Fidel Castro among his closest friends and mocks President Bush as a "genocidal murderer."
> 
> Republicans can't help but fuck up anything they touch.  I think it's part of their "party platform" or something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You honestly didn't know that Citgo is OWNED by Hugo Chavez?  That Citgo is registered as an "American company" and, because of the Supreme Court, they can put as much money as they want into our political elections?  Don't you guys know anything?
Click to expand...


No, he's saying you're looney because you think Chavez will support Republicans.

He's right.


----------



## rdean

Ropey said:


> As well, Iran has stated they have modified this missile and the range is of ~2500 km targeted.
> 
> This means ~3,000km non targeted delivery, and these missiles are capable of dealing out fissionable warheads.
> 
> 
> 
> The modifications made to the _Shahab 3_ are a huge step in the development and independence of the Iranian missile program. Whereas earlier Iranian missile developments could usually be traced to foreign sources, the modifications to the Shahab 3 appear to be domestic technologies.
> 
> The progress of the Shahab 3, from the mid-1990s to the present, represents the progress of Iranian missile independence and the growing international threat of Iranian aspirations. In the mid-1990s, Iran was building modified &#8216;Scud&#8217; missiles with foreign assistance; in 2009, Iran successfully launched a satellite on a domestically-built rocket. The future of the Iranian program, in the Shahab 5 and 6, could extend their missile range into Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know.  And that gave the the opportunity to say, "Venezuela" is at least 4000 km from Texas.  That means those missiles are still short by 2500 km.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Texas is not the closest state to Venezuela.
> 
> Just to educate you on what it means when someone says a missile has a range of 1500 km, that is an estimate, not a solid number. The longest sniper shot ever was over 2400 meters, which is further the new sniper rifle that the Army is just pushing out is rated for, and a lot further than the rifle that made the shot was supposed to be able to shoot. If rifles can shoot further than their range missiles can too.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


You have to give a  to the right on how hard they work to impress the world with Iran's "military might".  There are endless lists of weapons attributed to the Iranians.

List of military equipment manufactured in Iran

But what do the Iranians say?  Watch these.  The one from Fox is the funniest.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTIoezhRS3g&feature[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUnGLFGpX_s&feature=related[/ame]

Somehow, the entire Iranian nuclear program was brought down with a computer virus.

Iranians have been working for years trying to "enrich uranium".  It has to be around 99% pure to work in a bomb.  So far, they have it about the same as a the x-ray you get from a "doctor's visit".


----------



## rdean

RadiomanATL said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You honestly didn't know that Citgo is OWNED by Hugo Chavez?  That Citgo is registered as an "American company" and, because of the Supreme Court, they can put as much money as they want into our political elections?  Don't you guys know anything?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, he's saying you're looney because you think Chavez will support Republicans.
> 
> He's right.
Click to expand...


Why not?  They believe in the same thing.  Look how much Republicans support moving jobs to China, a communist country.  They filibuster bills to keep jobs here, they work with the Chamber of Commerce to teach business owners how to "outsource" to China.

It's all about the money.


----------



## RadiomanATL

rdean said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> You honestly didn't know that Citgo is OWNED by Hugo Chavez?  That Citgo is registered as an "American company" and, because of the Supreme Court, they can put as much money as they want into our political elections?  Don't you guys know anything?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, he's saying you're looney because you think Chavez will support Republicans.
> 
> He's right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why not?  They believe in the same thing.  Look how much Republicans support moving jobs to China, a communist country.  They filibuster bills to keep jobs here, they work with the Chamber of Commerce to teach business owners how to "outsource" to China.
> 
> It's all about the money.
Click to expand...


He's still right.

You're a loon.


----------



## rdean

RadiomanATL said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, he's saying you're looney because you think Chavez will support Republicans.
> 
> He's right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not?  They believe in the same thing.  Look how much Republicans support moving jobs to China, a communist country.  They filibuster bills to keep jobs here, they work with the Chamber of Commerce to teach business owners how to "outsource" to China.
> 
> It's all about the money.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's still right.
> 
> You're a loon.
Click to expand...


I put out truth, you call names.  Nothing new.


----------



## RadiomanATL

rdean said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why not?  They believe in the same thing.  Look how much Republicans support moving jobs to China, a communist country.  They filibuster bills to keep jobs here, they work with the Chamber of Commerce to teach business owners how to "outsource" to China.
> 
> It's all about the money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's still right.
> 
> You're a loon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I put out truth, you call names.  Nothing new.
Click to expand...


It's not truth.

That's why you are a loon. Truth


----------



## hipeter924

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yes, we must teach our young how to protect themselves. And early on for certain.
> 
> 
> 
> Yet when we do the same thing for our children, killing them becomes "awesome" according to the warped morality of Zionism and your soldiers brag publicly about murdering them (not that killing children who _don't_ protect themselves has ever been a problem for Zionists.)
> 
> 
> 
> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> But when the fighting starts, they are in the bunkers. Whilst the Muslim Arabians who call themselves Palestinians put them on the front lines of their door to door fights. They strap explosives to them and blow them up when soldiers come to respond to the attacks on Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This sort of inaccurate, romanticized propaganda has no place in a real discussion. Zionists like to pretend that they can absolve their butchers of all guilt simply by accusing Hamas of using "human shields." The funny thing about this is that every report on "human shields" that isn't published by a Zionist shill takes note of the use of this tactic by Israel. For example:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B'Tselem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B'Tselem's initial investigation indicates that, during an incursion by Israeli forces into Beit Hanun, in the northern Gaza Strip, on 17 July 2006, *soldiers seized control of two buildings in the town and used residents as human shield.*
> 
> After seizing control of the buildings, *the soldiers held six residents, two of them minors*, on the staircases of the two buildings, at the entrance to rooms in which the soldiers positioned themselves, for some twelve hours. During this time, there were intense exchanges of gunfire between the soldiers and armed Palestinians. The soldiers also demanded that one of the occupants walk in front of them during a search of all the apartments in one of the buildings, after which they released her.
> 
> B'Tselem - Human Shields - 20 July 2006: Israeli Soldiers use civilians as Human Shields in Beit Hanun
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Etc. The last two reports indicate that this has been a popular Zionist practice for nearly a decade at the very least. The Zionists who are aware of this generally fall back on their laughable "everyone is conspiring against Israel" shtick.
> 
> So no, I'm afraid that your butchers still bear the burden of responsibility for the slaughter of Gaza's civilians even if you attribute all of the deaths to "human shielding." You're right about one thing; you keep your children in bunkers because you're perfectly content with using ours to shield yourselves.
> 
> Once again, we see that Zionist claims...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...are inconsistent with reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> A major difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remember this picture? Islamofascism is the modern fight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Islam does not permit working for the benefit of kafir causes, particularly those that involve committing crimes. *Apostates of yore are only relevant in the minds of Zionists. You should like Hamas now, anyway, since Haniyah sold out and expressed a willingness to recognize the squatter entity within its 1967 "borders."
Click to expand...

Oh you are back again, I had thought you had finally struck the right nerve and become a jihad-hist but I was mistaken you still haven't got those virgins yet. 

PS: All that Zionist stuff is making me thirsty, time to have a beer, another thing illegal under Islam. If I had time I would break all the rules, but then I would probably get bored and fall asleep because some of them are exceedingly silly like not being allowed to eat pork, when clearly the only reason pork was forbidden was because they are unclean under desert conditions not in temperate climates or when being refrigerated. 

Oh and Sex in the City 2 was great, really made fun of the UAE in a big way, Muslims are scared of other men's boners. 

It also had the usual left wing bitches on the scene, it's racist to be a Muslim (westerner's doing western things is considered by the guardian as racist), right back at you. 


> The film was also criticized for its portrayal of the Middle East. Stephen Farber of _The Hollywood Reporter_ called it "blatantly anti-Muslim"[25] and Hadley Freeman of the UK broadsheet _The Guardian_ described the trailers as "borderline racist".[26]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_the_City_2


----------



## Kalam

hipeter924 said:


> Oh you are back again, I had thought you had finally struck the right nerve and become a jihad-hist but I was mistaken you still haven't got those virgins yet.


It kind of sounds like you're trying to get me laid...



hipeter924 said:


> PS: All that Zionist stuff is making me thirsty, time to have a beer, another thing illegal under Islam. If I had time I would break all the rules, but then I would probably get bored and fall asleep because some of them are exceedingly silly like not being allowed to eat pork, when clearly the only reason pork was forbidden was because they are unclean under desert conditions not in temperate climates or when being refrigerated.



If you're not a Muslim then you aren't breaking any rules.


----------



## hipeter924

Kalam said:


> hipeter924 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh you are back again, I had thought you had finally struck the right nerve and become a jihad-hist but I was mistaken you still haven't got those virgins yet.
> 
> 
> 
> It kind of sounds like you're trying to get me laid...
> 
> 
> 
> hipeter924 said:
> 
> 
> 
> PS: All that Zionist stuff is making me thirsty, time to have a beer, another thing illegal under Islam. If I had time I would break all the rules, but then I would probably get bored and fall asleep because some of them are exceedingly silly like not being allowed to eat pork, when clearly the only reason pork was forbidden was because they are unclean under desert conditions not in temperate climates or when being refrigerated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you're not a Muslim then you aren't breaking any rules.
Click to expand...

Of course I am, just by existing.


----------



## Kalam

hipeter924 said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hipeter924 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh you are back again, I had thought you had finally struck the right nerve and become a jihad-hist but I was mistaken you still haven't got those virgins yet.
> 
> 
> 
> It kind of sounds like you're trying to get me laid...
> 
> 
> 
> hipeter924 said:
> 
> 
> 
> PS: All that Zionist stuff is making me thirsty, time to have a beer, another thing illegal under Islam. If I had time I would break all the rules, but then I would probably get bored and fall asleep because some of them are exceedingly silly like not being allowed to eat pork, when clearly the only reason pork was forbidden was because they are unclean under desert conditions not in temperate climates or when being refrigerated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you're not a Muslim then you aren't breaking any rules.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course I am, just by existing.
Click to expand...


You aren't important enough for anyone to want to kill you; you can come down from that cross now. 

Pft. Infidels.


----------



## Ropey

Kalam said:


> *Pft. Infidels.*



You are clear.


----------



## Ropey

Who do you expect would man our gates? We should put our children there? So that their deaths would create a media outrage for us?

NO! 

We will continue to put our most fanatic at the front lines, where they do wish to fight and kill the foe. We will continue to hide our young away when attacked. 

Still, we moved all our most fanatic settlers out of Gaza and then unilaterally left Gaza. What happened? The Fatah and Hamas Palestinians started fighting. Since Israel had moved out of Gaza in the hopes that they would use the given settlements civilian infrastructure such as greenhouses, irrigation lines, etc. etc. Then the Hamas ran to the Gaza where the Joe had just left. They then began to disfigure and lamed any of the Fatah supporters. The Fatah themselves were given the rush out of windows and rooftops. They took over the area and they demolished all those Jew built settlements, keeping only some heavier built structures but burning the inside of it out to remove the unholiness of the Jew embedded in the structures.

They refuse to hold a vote because now both they AND the Palestinian authority are in violation. They can not get together to even accept they are one people! Where's the intellect?


----------



## Kalam

Ropey said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Pft. Infidels.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are clear.
Click to expand...


I'll assume that you acknowledge Israel's use of human shields/responsibility for Gaza's dead civilians.


----------



## Ropey

geauxtohell said:


> [Perhaps I misunderstood your praying icon after your comment about having missiles pointed at Iran.  For clarification, you do or don't want us to blow the shit out of Iran?



I pray we do not have to use them. I pray if we do have to use them, that we win. 




> I don't buy that "One bomb country".  Furthermore, any middle eastern country that used a nuke on Israel would incur the wrath of the world.  That's why it is not going to happen.  It's similar to MAD between the USSR and USA.  However, it's basically "Your Assured Destruction".  So basically, you have countries like Iran trying to provoke Israel into striking it first, so It can justify an escalation of the conflict.
> 
> Yes, I think Israel has to take the first hit.  If it makes you feel better, I think the United States should too.  If the past decade taught us anything, it's the notion of "Preventative War" is disastrous.
> 
> I suppose I might support it if there was a real smoking gun.  Such as "We know they have the nukes and are intending to use them on a specific target within the next 24 days".
> 
> Other than that, if Israel picks a fight, they shouldn't expect a lot of support from the American people.  Everyone here is sick of war.



What will come will come. Regardless of what people like.  But you are clear. Unless there is clear proof that Iran has not only an ability to attack, but must be seen within twenty four hours to be ready to attack for a response to be made.

I understand you. I just disagree. America has no choice but to intercede because Iran has stated that the Straits of Hormuz will be shut down, thus cutting Americas hegemonic control and its ability to transfer the oil securely (even from Iran) will be severely curtailed. This represents 40% of the world's seaborne oil shipments, and 20% of all world shipments.

Look and see what revenues America extracts from the Strait of Hormuz. Look at what the financial gain is to the American (not Israeli) control of the middle eastern oil hegemony. Israel is a supporter of this American hegemony.

Iran has stated that any attack on it will be considered an attack from America. They have stated what they will do in such a case.

Why do you think Israel has not attacked?

Hundreds of thousands of American troops in Afghanistan, Kuwait, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, etc. are all targeted by Iran already.

No, Israel will not unilaterally attack. I don't think that they should either. 

Are you?


----------



## Ropey

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Pft. Infidels.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are clear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll assume that you acknowledge Israel's use of human shields/responsibility for Gaza's dead civilians.
Click to expand...


There are some soldiers who have done this. It is not on order though. But all you are looking for is an Zionist indictment isn't it?

Will you acknowledge the Arabians who call themselves Palestinians use their young as shields also?


----------



## Ropey

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Pft. Infidels.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are clear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll assume that you acknowledge Israel's use of human shields/responsibility for Gaza's dead civilians.
Click to expand...


Assume means to make up your own mind with less than reliable facts.

You do this often?


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

rdean said:


> What right wingers fail to understand is that Hugo Chavez isn't going to attack a "money tree", especially since Republicans made it possible for him to invest heavily in American Elections.  And seriously, we know he's going to support Republicans.  They share so many of the same values.
> 
> Remember, it was the Conservative Supreme Court under Justice Roberts that made American companies "citizens".  Citgo is an American company, it just happens to be owned by Hugo Chavez.
> 
> USATODAY.com - Has Citgo become a political tool for Hugo Chvez?
> 
> But in fact there's nothing ordinary about Citgo. One of the USA's largest refiners, Citgo is a subsidiary of Venezuela's state-owned oil company, Petroleos de Venezuela S.A. (PDVSA). As such, it ultimately belongs to Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez, an avowedly anti-American leader who counts Fidel Castro among his closest friends and mocks President Bush as a "genocidal murderer."
> 
> Republicans can't help but fuck up anything they touch.  I think it's part of their "party platform" or something.


----------



## Ropey

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Pft. Infidels.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are clear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll assume that you acknowledge Israel's use of human shields/responsibility for Gaza's dead civilians.
Click to expand...


Israel moved out of Gaza unilaterally. They *assumed *that the Arabians who call themselves Palestinians would take the area, use the Israeli settlements (that were simply abandoned).

Wrong!

And I reiterate:

Since Israel had moved out of Gaza in the hopes that they would use the given settlements civilian infrastructure such as greenhouses, irrigation lines, etc. etc. The border was far, far more open to them as well.

Then the Hamas ran to the Gaza after losing their fight to overthrow the Presidency. Gaza, where the Joe had just left. They then began to disfigure and lamed any of the Fatah supporters. The Fatah themselves were given the rush out of windows and rooftops. They took over the area and they demolished all those Joe built settlements, keeping only some heavier built structures but burning the inside of it out. They refuse to hold a vote because now both they AND the Palestinian authority are in violation.


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

Kalam said:


> (R)IGHTeous 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The link lists EVERY Israeli killed...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...Which is precisely why it's useless. We're discussing civilian deaths only.
Click to expand...


So you're unable to do simple math, that would explain alot.


----------



## Ropey

Oh he can do math. He's simply trying to isolate your facts rather than speak to them.

In a debate, he would not even be allowed to speak after one of those pitiful attempts. 

Discussion? Not even close. He discusses by exclusion.

He might as well discuss with himself as that's really all he does.



(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (R)IGHTeous 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The link lists EVERY Israeli killed...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...Which is precisely why it's useless. We're discussing civilian deaths only.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you're unable to do simple math, that would explain alot.
Click to expand...


----------



## daveman

Ropey said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are clear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll assume that you acknowledge Israel's use of human shields/responsibility for Gaza's dead civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are some soldiers who have done this. It is not on order though. But all you are looking for is an Zionist indictment isn't it?
> 
> Will you acknowledge the Arabians who call themselves Palestinians use their young as shields also?
Click to expand...

He needs to acknowledge they use them as weapons, too.

Note to the Palis:

Real men do their own fighting.  They don't send out kids and the mentally handicapped while they remain in hiding.  Cowards, the lot of 'em.


----------



## rdean

RadiomanATL said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> He's still right.
> 
> You're a loon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I put out truth, you call names.  Nothing new.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not truth.
> 
> That's why you are a loon. Truth
Click to expand...


Oh, but it is the truth Nuttard.  Hugo Chavez wants his country run by the big companies he owns, Republicans want this country run by big companies here.  That's why they made them "citizens".

No only that, right wingers want to destroy real education and invade our lives with all kinds of made up "Biblical" so called "moral" laws.  Control women's bodies.  Make gays felons.  It's not like they hide it.  Tell me why it's not true and I'll link you to Republican State Party Platforms that prove it is true.

The right wing is what it is.  If they don't like their positions made public, they shouldn't put it down in writing.


----------



## rdean

rdean said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> As well, Iran has stated they have modified this missile and the range is of ~2500 km targeted.
> 
> This means ~3,000km non targeted delivery, and these missiles are capable of dealing out fissionable warheads.
> 
> 
> 
> The modifications made to the _Shahab 3_ are a huge step in the development and independence of the Iranian missile program. Whereas earlier Iranian missile developments could usually be traced to foreign sources, the modifications to the Shahab 3 appear to be domestic technologies.
> 
> The progress of the Shahab 3, from the mid-1990s to the present, represents the progress of Iranian missile independence and the growing international threat of Iranian aspirations. In the mid-1990s, Iran was building modified Scud missiles with foreign assistance; in 2009, Iran successfully launched a satellite on a domestically-built rocket. The future of the Iranian program, in the Shahab 5 and 6, could extend their missile range into Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> 
> Texas is not the closest state to Venezuela.
> 
> Just to educate you on what it means when someone says a missile has a range of 1500 km, that is an estimate, not a solid number. The longest sniper shot ever was over 2400 meters, which is further the new sniper rifle that the Army is just pushing out is rated for, and a lot further than the rifle that made the shot was supposed to be able to shoot. If rifles can shoot further than their range missiles can too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have to give a  to the right on how hard they work to impress the world with Iran's "military might".  There are endless lists of weapons attributed to the Iranians.
> 
> List of military equipment manufactured in Iran
> 
> But what do the Iranians say?  Watch these.  The one from Fox is the funniest.
> 
> [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTIoezhRS3g&feature[/ame]
> 
> [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUnGLFGpX_s&feature=related[/ame]
> 
> Somehow, the entire Iranian nuclear program was brought down with a computer virus.
> 
> Iranians have been working for years trying to "enrich uranium".  It has to be around 99% pure to work in a bomb.  So far, they have it about the same as a the x-ray you get from a "doctor's visit".
Click to expand...


Religion and science don't mix.  It's why Iranians and Republicans don't do well with "data" and "science".  It's just the way it is. 

The only threat from Iran is not what they discover, but what they "buy".


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

*rdean wrote:*


> Oh, but it is the truth Nuttard.  Hugo Chavez wants his country run by the big companies he owns, Republicans want this country run by big companies here.  That's why they made them "citizens".


Thank you for asking to be embarrassed, I'll gladly oblige.  Take your laughable, tired, DNC talking point "Evvvviiiil corporations are taking us over!" BS elsewhere, all you did there was hurt your credibility. * We're for allowing success, not punishing and regulating it to death*, commie.



> No only that, right wingers want to destroy real education and invade our lives with all kinds of made up "Biblical" so called "moral" laws.  Control women's bodies.  Make gays felons.  It's not like they hide it.  Tell me why it's not true and I'll link you to Republican State Party Platforms that prove it is true.


Get your ass outta the CPUSA's, and DailyKos' ass. * Private schools consistently outperform our sad, failing public system.  * No one Republican that I've ever seen or heard as EVER wanted to breach the Constitution with instituting "Biblical" law, so take your bigoted, anti-Christian, hate theories elsewhere, along with your pro-"choice" (MURDER) stance, *the majority of the nation disagrees with you, as does the mountains of empirical evidence proving AN UNBORN FETUS IS A LIVING, BREATHING, FEELING, CONSCIOUS BEING.  I'm a proud gay Republican, and in no platform, ever that I've seen, especially the national one, is something that crazy, and made up by you there*, you're really grasping for straws huh.



> The right wing is what it is.


Exactly, we aint called RIGHT for nothing dude, now run along.


----------



## Ropey

I disagree. The Iranian Ballistic Missile Program is not a paper tiger.  With regards to the laughing at the Photoshop manipulated photo, they misfired one missile out of one hundred and twenty. Media picked out the single one misfired.

If a war does come about with Iran. Do not expect Iraqi responses. Iran is not Iraq. They have missiles aimed at American bases in Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Yemen, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, and the UAE, and most certainly at Israel.

Time will tell, but for those who think the Iranian missile program is a paper tiger, they might well be surprised in the future. There is nothing on the table for attack until 2015 and American troops are out of the middle east. 

No war whilst America has over two hundred thousand armed forces and their support personal in the arena. Unless they start it.



rdean said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> As well, Iran has stated they have modified this missile and the range is of ~2500 km targeted.
> 
> This means ~3,000km non targeted delivery, and these missiles are capable of dealing out fissionable warheads.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have to give a  to the right on how hard they work to impress the world with Iran's "military might".  There are endless lists of weapons attributed to the Iranians.
> 
> List of military equipment manufactured in Iran
> 
> But what do the Iranians say?  Watch these.  The one from Fox is the funniest.
> 
> [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTIoezhRS3g&feature[/ame]
> 
> [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUnGLFGpX_s&feature=related[/ame]
> 
> Somehow, the entire Iranian nuclear program was brought down with a computer virus.
> 
> Iranians have been working for years trying to "enrich uranium".  It has to be around 99% pure to work in a bomb.  So far, they have it about the same as a the x-ray you get from a "doctor's visit".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Religion and science don't mix.  It's why Iranians and Republicans don't do well with "data" and "science".  It's just the way it is.
> 
> The only threat from Iran is not what they discover, but what they "buy".
Click to expand...


----------



## hipeter924

Kalam said:


> hipeter924 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> It kind of sounds like you're trying to get me laid...
> 
> 
> 
> If you're not a Muslim then you aren't breaking any rules.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course I am, just by existing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You aren't important enough for anyone to want to kill you; you can come down from that cross now.
> 
> Pft. Infidels.
Click to expand...

Pft. Muslims. 

As bad as European's.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GOHaXKv_hE&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwAtNILh6uY&feature=related[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwAtNILh6uY&feature=related[/ame]


----------



## Philobeado

BOGOTA, COLOMBIA -

Russia delivered at least 1,800 shoulder-fired antiaircraft missiles to Venezuela in 2009, U.N. arms control data show, despite vigorous U.S. efforts to stop President Hugo Chavez's stridently anti-American government from acquiring the weapons. 

Venezuela acquires 1,800 antiaircraft missiles from Russia


----------



## hortysir

uscitizen said:


> It appears to be over 1500KM from the USA to VZ.


Which puts us just out of range of the furthest reaching missile.
But if these are the missiles being admitted to, how many are slipping under the radar??


geauxtohell said:


> Assuming this OPED is true, which is a stretch, why is war the first answer or even a consideration?
> 
> In fact, why do we have to resort to violence?
> 
> For fuck's sake, I'll never get why people in this country are so paranoid.
> 
> It's like the biggest kid on the block being scared of his own shadow.
> 
> Hopefully, the guy running the show now will show some frigging common sense before launching another fucked up "preventive war".


Why is so out of the norm to react to MISSILES with violence?
The silos aren't being loaded for a friendly game of backgammon.


----------



## Kalam

Ropey said:


> There are some soldiers who have done this. It is not on order though. But all you are looking for is an Zionist indictment isn't it?


There are many who have done it and it has been a Zionist practice for a number of years. I'm looking for some semblance of honesty from supporters of Zionism and most of what you post is, as I've said, amateurish propaganda. 



Ropey said:


> Will you acknowledge the Arabians who call themselves Palestinians use their young as shields also?


I've never denied it. Don't forget that you're the one who lied about this practice, as usual.


----------



## Kalam

(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (R)IGHTeous 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The link lists EVERY Israeli killed...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...Which is precisely why it's useless. We're discussing civilian deaths only.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you're unable to do simple math, that would explain alot.
Click to expand...


Are you unable to do a simple Google search for civilian statistics?


----------



## Kalam

daveman said:


> He needs to acknowledge they use them as weapons, too.
> 
> Note to the Palis:
> 
> Real men do their own fighting.  They don't send out kids and the mentally handicapped while they remain in hiding.  Cowards, the lot of 'em.



Again, we see that the mentally deficient supporters of Zionism attempt to justify their prejudices with crude stereotypes rather than with any sort of meaningful discussion of facts. Color me shocked.


----------



## Ropey

Then you do not deny that they use their young as human shields.

They Kill their own for media purposes.

Yes, there are some Jew who use them for shields during wars. They do not use their own.

That's the point you miss Kalam. Your causes use their own young for their deaths in order to manipulate the media.

The few Jewish soldiers who do this are (in their minds) protecting their young. Your side is (in there minds) Creating the death of their young to further their cause.

Just as your Chechen do.



Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are some soldiers who have done this. It is not on order though. But all you are looking for is an Zionist indictment isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> There are many who have done it and it has been a Zionist practice for a number of years. I'm looking for some semblance of honesty from supporters of Zionism and most of what you post is, as I've said, amateurish propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Will you acknowledge the Arabians who call themselves Palestinians use their young as shields also?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've never denied it. Don't forget that you're the one who lied about this practice, as usual.
Click to expand...


----------



## Kalam

Ropey said:


> Just as your Chechen do.



Prove this or apologize for insulting them, filth.


----------



## Ropey

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just as your Chechen do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove this or apologize for insulting them, filth.
Click to expand...


I seldom respond to name calling. There are no apologies from my end. And, when I look at the Western civilization's views regarding your cause I do not see apologies, I see understanding of what your cause does to further said cause.


----------



## Kalam

Ropey said:


> I seldom respond to name calling. There are no apologies from my end. And, when I look at the Western civilization's views regarding your cause I do not see apologies, I see understanding of what your cause does to further said cause.



You were asked to substantiate your slander with proof or apologize for uttering it in the first place. Do so. I don't care if I hurt your little feelings with an insult; get over it.


----------



## Ropey

Neg reps will not change my view Kalam.


----------



## Ropey

And my view? It stands.


----------



## Kalam

Refer to my post in the other thread, moron. You just posted an account of Kremlin-loyal forces using "human shields."


----------



## Ropey

Not at all. I posted that to show that whilst I do not support the methods your cause uses, I support the cause.

I know you do not understand this.


----------



## Ropey

Just as I do not support the methods that the Arabians who call themselves Palestinians use, I do support their cause.

I know you do not understand this either.


----------



## Kalam

Ropey said:


> Not at all. I posted that to show that whilst I do not support the methods your cause uses, I support the cause.
> 
> I know you do not understand this.



Again, see my post in the other thread.


----------



## Ropey

Kalam said:


> Refer to my post in the other thread, moron. You just posted an account of Kremlin-loyal forces using "human shields."



You seem to enjoy calling other people names when you don't even understand them.

To reiterate, in discussion, such things are considered beneath discussion.


----------



## Kalam

Ropey said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> Refer to my post in the other thread, moron. You just posted an account of Kremlin-loyal forces using "human shields."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to enjoy calling other people names when you don't even understand them.
> 
> To reiterate, in discussion, such things are considered beneath discussion.
Click to expand...


You seem to enjoy commenting on conflicts you know little about. Doing this, particularly when it involves misrepresenting the victims of Russian atrocities in the Caucasus, will always elicit an emotional response from me because the issue is close to my heart. 

If you came to USMB looking for formal debate, you'll be disappointed. Since few of your posts contain any sort of factual evidence to prop up your empty rhetoric, however, I doubt that formal debate is what you're after.


----------



## Ropey

@ Kalam

I have never said that the Palestinians do not have a legitimate cause. I have always said that there methods are not conducive to their cause.

Likewise, your cause.


----------



## Ropey

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just as your Chechen do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove this or apologize for insulting them, filth.
Click to expand...




Kalam said:


> Refer to my post in the other thread, moron. You just posted an account of Kremlin-loyal forces using "human shields."



I am not looking for formal debate.  Simply civil discussion. You lack...


----------



## Kalam

Ropey said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just as your Chechen do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove this or apologize for insulting them, filth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> Refer to my post in the other thread, moron. You just posted an account of Kremlin-loyal forces using "human shields."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not looking for formal debate.  Simply civil discussion. You lack...
Click to expand...


You value civility, yes. Discussion? I'm not so sure about that.


----------



## Ropey

Of course you have those legitimate feelings. I have them for my cause as well. It's what makes us human. We care about 'our' causes because we are tied to them.

That being said, are you not able to contain your emotions when in discussion. If not.

Then I reiterate, you lack.





Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> Refer to my post in the other thread, moron. You just posted an account of Kremlin-loyal forces using "human shields."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to enjoy calling other people names when you don't even understand them.
> 
> To reiterate, in discussion, such things are considered beneath discussion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You seem to enjoy commenting on conflicts you know little about. Doing this, particularly when it involves misrepresenting the victims of Russian atrocities in the Caucasus, will always elicit an emotional response from me because the issue is close to my heart.
> 
> If you came to USMB looking for formal debate, you'll be disappointed. Since few of your posts contain any sort of factual evidence to prop up your empty rhetoric, however, I doubt that formal debate is what you're after.
Click to expand...


----------



## geauxtohell

hortysir said:


> Why is so out of the norm to react to MISSILES with violence?
> The silos aren't being loaded for a friendly game of backgammon.



Really?  

How many Minuteman missiles have we launched?  

This is a game.  It's not backgammon, but it's still a game. 

Underlying the use of any missile to strike the United States is the realization that we will flatten the responsible country.


----------



## geauxtohell

Ropey said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> 
> [Perhaps I misunderstood your praying icon after your comment about having missiles pointed at Iran.  For clarification, you do or don't want us to blow the shit out of Iran?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I pray we do not have to use them. I pray if we do have to use them, that we win.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't buy that "One bomb country".  Furthermore, any middle eastern country that used a nuke on Israel would incur the wrath of the world.  That's why it is not going to happen.  It's similar to MAD between the USSR and USA.  However, it's basically "Your Assured Destruction".  So basically, you have countries like Iran trying to provoke Israel into striking it first, so It can justify an escalation of the conflict.
> 
> Yes, I think Israel has to take the first hit.  If it makes you feel better, I think the United States should too.  If the past decade taught us anything, it's the notion of "Preventative War" is disastrous.
> 
> I suppose I might support it if there was a real smoking gun.  Such as "We know they have the nukes and are intending to use them on a specific target within the next 24 days".
> 
> Other than that, if Israel picks a fight, they shouldn't expect a lot of support from the American people.  Everyone here is sick of war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What will come will come. Regardless of what people like.  But you are clear. Unless there is clear proof that Iran has not only an ability to attack, but must be seen within twenty four hours to be ready to attack for a response to be made.
> 
> I understand you. I just disagree. America has no choice but to intercede because Iran has stated that the Straits of Hormuz will be shut down, thus cutting Americas hegemonic control and its ability to transfer the oil securely (even from Iran) will be severely curtailed. This represents 40% of the world's seaborne oil shipments, and 20% of all world shipments.
> 
> Look and see what revenues America extracts from the Strait of Hormuz. Look at what the financial gain is to the American (not Israeli) control of the middle eastern oil hegemony. Israel is a supporter of this American hegemony.
> 
> Iran has stated that any attack on it will be considered an attack from America. They have stated what they will do in such a case.
> 
> Why do you think Israel has not attacked?
> 
> Hundreds of thousands of American troops in Afghanistan, Kuwait, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, etc. are all targeted by Iran already.
> 
> No, Israel will not unilaterally attack. I don't think that they should either.
> 
> Are you?
Click to expand...


That's fair enough.  I see where you are coming from.  If we have to go to war, I want us to win.  I just don't support pre-emption (unless it truly is a slam dunk).  

Am I what?


----------



## daveman

Kalam said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> He needs to acknowledge they use them as weapons, too.
> 
> Note to the Palis:
> 
> Real men do their own fighting.  They don't send out kids and the mentally handicapped while they remain in hiding.  Cowards, the lot of 'em.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, we see that the mentally deficient supporters of Zionism attempt to justify their prejudices with crude stereotypes rather than with any sort of meaningful discussion of facts. Color me shocked.
Click to expand...

Tough shit, Skippy.  Here's some facts for you:

Earlier Friday, remote-controlled explosives strapped to two mentally retarded women detonated in a coordinated attack on Baghdad pet bazaars, killing at least 73 people in the deadliest day since the U.S. sent 30,000 extra troops to the capital last spring.​
In Iraq, terrorists have used handicapped children as suicide bombers. In fact, a child with Downs syndrome was used to blow up a polling site in Baghdad. A bomb was placed around the childs body, and he was marched to the polling location. His handlers then goaded him to walk to the target. But the terrified child paused. He became confused, and as a result, he turned and began walking to the terrorists who had sent him. The infuriated psychopaths immediately detonated the boy, furious that he had failed. At another time, terrorists used another Downs syndrome child to throw grenades with the hope that U.S. soldiers would kill the boy. They believed that the disabled children would be able to get closer to their targets because people would be naturally less suspicious and even sympathetic to the injured.​There's some meaningful facts for you.  

Like I said, Islamic terrorists are _cowards_.


----------



## daveman

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just as your Chechen do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove this or apologize for insulting them, filth.
Click to expand...

Inside the school, terrorists ordered survivors to the cafeteria, where some were forced to stand at windows as human shields. A number were quickly shot by troops outside, said Irina Naldikoyeva, 30, who was there with her two children and a niece, Vika Dzutseva, now 16.​Consider it proven.  Filth.


----------



## Ropey

My mistake. I meant: 

And you?



geauxtohell said:


> Are you?


----------



## Jroc

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just as your Chechen do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove this or apologize for insulting them, filth.
Click to expand...


 While we can have sympathies for the Chechens, which I do, Kalam can never have any sympathies for the Israelis because he is blinded by hate. When I first joined this board he asked if I were more moderate with my opinions as opposed to most of the other supporters of Israel, I guess to him if you agree with him youre a moderate if you don't you're an extremist thats the way it is with his kind.


----------



## rdean

(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> *rdean wrote:*
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, but it is the truth Nuttard.  Hugo Chavez wants his country run by the big companies he owns, Republicans want this country run by big companies here.  That's why they made them "citizens".
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for asking to be embarrassed, I'll gladly oblige.  Take your laughable, tired, DNC talking point "Evvvviiiil corporations are taking us over!" BS elsewhere, all you did there was hurt your credibility. * We're for allowing success, not punishing and regulating it to death*, commie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No only that, right wingers want to destroy real education and invade our lives with all kinds of made up "Biblical" so called "moral" laws.  Control women's bodies.  Make gays felons.  It's not like they hide it.  Tell me why it's not true and I'll link you to Republican State Party Platforms that prove it is true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Get your ass outta the CPUSA's, and DailyKos' ass. * Private schools consistently outperform our sad, failing public system.  * No one Republican that I've ever seen or heard as EVER wanted to breach the Constitution with instituting "Biblical" law, so take your bigoted, anti-Christian, hate theories elsewhere, along with your pro-"choice" (MURDER) stance, *the majority of the nation disagrees with you, as does the mountains of empirical evidence proving AN UNBORN FETUS IS A LIVING, BREATHING, FEELING, CONSCIOUS BEING.  I'm a proud gay Republican, and in no platform, ever that I've seen, especially the national one, is something that crazy, and made up by you there*, you're really grasping for straws huh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The right wing is what it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly, we aint called RIGHT for nothing dude, now run along.
Click to expand...


Oh yea, if you guys are so into success, why did the Republicans fuck the economy up so much.  Republican presidents rank as the worst of the last century.

So you think Hugo Chavez having to ability to influence American elections is a "good" thing?????

You might want to read the Republican Party Platform for the State of Texas.  

You're gay?  Don't tell them that in Texas.  You could end up an "felon".

https://www.1888932-2946.ws/TexasGOP/E-ContentStrategy/userfiles/2010_RPT_PLATFORM.pdf


----------



## Kalam

daveman said:


> ...
> 
> Like I said, Islamic terrorists are _cowards_.



These incidents can't be used to draw conclusions about anyone other than those involved in them. The fact that you had to turn to Iraq in a discussion about Palestine is an indication of how isolated these sorts of things are and how desperately you're grasping at straws. Let's use some isolated incidents to draw conclusions about American soldiers:

Gang raping a child; murdering her and her entire family (and, of course, being spared the death penalty):
_In May, the jury found Green guilty of the rape of a 14-year-old Iraqi girl and the killing of her and her family near Baghdad in 2006.

Four other soldiers are serving sentences of between five and 110 years for their roles in the 2006 incident.

Three had admitted holding down Abeer Qassim al-Janabi, raping her and then killing her, her parents and her younger sister at the family's home in Mahmudiya before torching the building._

BBC NEWS | Americas | US soldier spared death penalty​
Killing civilians for sport; collecting body parts:
_Twelve American soldiers face charges over a secret "kill team" that allegedly blew up and shot Afghan civilians at random and collected their fingers as trophies.

Five of the soldiers are charged with murdering three Afghan men who were allegedly killed for sport in separate attacks this year. Seven others are accused of covering up the killings and assaulting a recruit who exposed the murders when he reported other abuses, including members of the unit smoking hashish stolen from civilians._

US soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport and collected fingers as trophies' | World news | The Guardian​
Massacring civilians and attempting to cover it up:
_According to the Americans, the building collapsed under heavy fire killing four people - a suspect, two women and a child.

But a report filed by Iraqi police accused US troops of rounding up and deliberately shooting 11 people in the house, including five children and four women, before blowing up the building._

BBC NEWS | Middle East | New 'Iraq massacre' tape emerges​
Cowards, the lot of them.


----------



## Kalam

daveman said:


> Inside the school, terrorists ordered survivors to the cafeteria, where some were forced to stand at windows as human shields. A number were quickly shot by troops outside, said Irina Naldikoyeva, 30, who was there with her two children and a niece, Vika Dzutseva, now 16.
> 
> Consider it proven.  Filth.



Oh, this school? 

_"In the eyes of the resistance, such operations have no legitimacy... we ourselves were horrified by what they did in Beslan."_ - *Dokka Umarov* (HA), current Amir of the Caucasus

_"...he posted a letter on the internet in which he condemned the Beslan incident and denied any connection between 'the Ansar in Chechnyawith the killing of children, women and unarmed people in the Beslan school in North Ossetia'"_ - referring to *Abu Hafs al-Urduni* (RA), fmr. Amir of foreign mujahideen in Chechnya (KIA 2006)

_"Mr. Maskhadov described the perpetrators of Beslan as "madmen" driven out of their senses by Russian acts of brutality. To the end, he condemned the killing of civilians."_ - referring to *Aslan Maskhadov* (RA), fmr. President of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria (KIA 2005)​
Avoid subjects you know nothing about, Davey. 

http://www.usmessageboard.com/3077783-post61.html


----------



## hipeter924

I don't like the Russian government much either, as for Chechnya it's currently ruled by an iron fisted military man, he is just sometimes but most of the times he is just straight out brutal. In any case I don't support the rebels due to their violent means, which is the same reason I don't support the PKK, even though I have sympathy for their struggle. Though to finish, if a people want independence then they should be entitled to it within reason, especially if they have lived there for a few centuries.


----------



## daveman

Kalam said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Like I said, Islamic terrorists are _cowards_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These incidents can't be used to draw conclusions about anyone other than those involved in them. The fact that you had to turn to Iraq in a discussion about Palestine is an indication of how isolated these sorts of things are and how desperately you're grasping at straws. Let's use some isolated incidents to draw conclusions about American soldiers:
> 
> Gang raping a child; murdering her and her entire family (and, of course, being spared the death penalty):
> _In May, the jury found Green guilty of the rape of a 14-year-old Iraqi girl and the killing of her and her family near Baghdad in 2006.
> 
> Four other soldiers are serving sentences of between five and 110 years for their roles in the 2006 incident.
> 
> Three had admitted holding down Abeer Qassim al-Janabi, raping her and then killing her, her parents and her younger sister at the family's home in Mahmudiya before torching the building._
> 
> BBC NEWS | Americas | US soldier spared death penalty​
> Killing civilians for sport; collecting body parts:
> _Twelve American soldiers face charges over a secret "kill team" that allegedly blew up and shot Afghan civilians at random and collected their fingers as trophies.
> 
> Five of the soldiers are charged with murdering three Afghan men who were allegedly killed for sport in separate attacks this year. Seven others are accused of covering up the killings and assaulting a recruit who exposed the murders when he reported other abuses, including members of the unit smoking hashish stolen from civilians._
> 
> US soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport and collected fingers as trophies' | World news | The Guardian​
> Massacring civilians and attempting to cover it up:
> _According to the Americans, the building collapsed under heavy fire killing four people - a suspect, two women and a child.
> 
> But a report filed by Iraqi police accused US troops of rounding up and deliberately shooting 11 people in the house, including five children and four women, before blowing up the building._
> 
> BBC NEWS | Middle East | New 'Iraq massacre' tape emerges​
> Cowards, the lot of them.
Click to expand...

Oe noes, someone criticized the Muslim terro -- errrr, "freedom fighters"!  

You don't like it, Skippy?  Tell them to stop using children and the mentally disabled as munitions.  

Ball's in your court.


----------



## daveman

Kalam said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Inside the school, terrorists ordered survivors to the cafeteria, where some were forced to stand at windows as human shields. A number were quickly shot by troops outside, said Irina Naldikoyeva, 30, who was there with her two children and a niece, Vika Dzutseva, now 16.
> 
> Consider it proven.  Filth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, this school?
> 
> _"In the eyes of the resistance, such operations have no legitimacy... we ourselves were horrified by what they did in Beslan."_ - *Dokka Umarov* (HA), current Amir of the Caucasus
> 
> _"...he posted a letter on the internet in which he condemned the Beslan incident and denied any connection between 'the Ansar in Chechnyawith the killing of children, women and unarmed people in the Beslan school in North Ossetia'"_ - referring to *Abu Hafs al-Urduni* (RA), fmr. Amir of foreign mujahideen in Chechnya (KIA 2006)
> 
> _"Mr. Maskhadov described the perpetrators of Beslan as "madmen" driven out of their senses by Russian acts of brutality. To the end, he condemned the killing of civilians."_ - referring to *Aslan Maskhadov* (RA), fmr. President of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria (KIA 2005)​
> Avoid subjects you know nothing about, Davey.
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/3077783-post61.html
Click to expand...

Those poor, poor terrorists.  All they wanted to do was kill children.  Is that so bad?


----------



## High_Gravity

daveman said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> He needs to acknowledge they use them as weapons, too.
> 
> Note to the Palis:
> 
> Real men do their own fighting.  They don't send out kids and the mentally handicapped while they remain in hiding.  Cowards, the lot of 'em.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, we see that the mentally deficient supporters of Zionism attempt to justify their prejudices with crude stereotypes rather than with any sort of meaningful discussion of facts. Color me shocked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tough shit, Skippy.  Here's some facts for you:
> 
> Earlier Friday, remote-controlled explosives strapped to two mentally retarded women detonated in a coordinated attack on Baghdad pet bazaars, killing at least 73 people in the deadliest day since the U.S. sent 30,000 extra troops to the capital last spring.​
> In Iraq, terrorists have used handicapped children as suicide bombers. In fact, a child with Downs syndrome was used to blow up a polling site in Baghdad. A bomb was placed around the childs body, and he was marched to the polling location. His handlers then goaded him to walk to the target. But the terrified child paused. He became confused, and as a result, he turned and began walking to the terrorists who had sent him. The infuriated psychopaths immediately detonated the boy, furious that he had failed. At another time, terrorists used another Downs syndrome child to throw grenades with the hope that U.S. soldiers would kill the boy. They believed that the disabled children would be able to get closer to their targets because people would be naturally less suspicious and even sympathetic to the injured.​There's some meaningful facts for you.
> 
> Like I said, Islamic terrorists are _cowards_.
Click to expand...


When the surge and the Awakening got in full swing in Iraq, the insurgents started running out of people to use as suicide bombers, so they did target the mentally ill, handicapped, and women. This kind of disgusting incidents has been going on inside Iraq for a long time and there are alot more incidents where they used retarded or mentally handicapped people as suicide bombers.


----------



## daveman

High_Gravity said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, we see that the mentally deficient supporters of Zionism attempt to justify their prejudices with crude stereotypes rather than with any sort of meaningful discussion of facts. Color me shocked.
> 
> 
> 
> Tough shit, Skippy.  Here's some facts for you:
> 
> Earlier Friday, remote-controlled explosives strapped to two mentally retarded women detonated in a coordinated attack on Baghdad pet bazaars, killing at least 73 people in the deadliest day since the U.S. sent 30,000 extra troops to the capital last spring.​
> In Iraq, terrorists have used handicapped children as suicide bombers. In fact, a child with Downs syndrome was used to blow up a polling site in Baghdad. A bomb was placed around the childs body, and he was marched to the polling location. His handlers then goaded him to walk to the target. But the terrified child paused. He became confused, and as a result, he turned and began walking to the terrorists who had sent him. The infuriated psychopaths immediately detonated the boy, furious that he had failed. At another time, terrorists used another Downs syndrome child to throw grenades with the hope that U.S. soldiers would kill the boy. They believed that the disabled children would be able to get closer to their targets because people would be naturally less suspicious and even sympathetic to the injured.​There's some meaningful facts for you.
> 
> Like I said, Islamic terrorists are _cowards_.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When the surge and the Awakening got in full swing in Iraq, the insurgents started running out of people to use as suicide bombers, so they did target the mentally ill, handicapped, and women. This kind of disgusting incidents has been going on inside Iraq for a long time and there are alot more incidents where they used retarded or mentally handicapped people as suicide bombers.
Click to expand...

And Kalam has no problem with it.


----------



## rdean

Kalam said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Like I said, Islamic terrorists are _cowards_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These incidents can't be used to draw conclusions about anyone other than those involved in them. The fact that you had to turn to Iraq in a discussion about Palestine is an indication of how isolated these sorts of things are and how desperately you're grasping at straws. Let's use some isolated incidents to draw conclusions about American soldiers:
> 
> Gang raping a child; murdering her and her entire family (and, of course, being spared the death penalty):
> _In May, the jury found Green guilty of the rape of a 14-year-old Iraqi girl and the killing of her and her family near Baghdad in 2006.
> 
> Four other soldiers are serving sentences of between five and 110 years for their roles in the 2006 incident.
> 
> Three had admitted holding down Abeer Qassim al-Janabi, raping her and then killing her, her parents and her younger sister at the family's home in Mahmudiya before torching the building._
> 
> BBC NEWS | Americas | US soldier spared death penalty​
> Killing civilians for sport; collecting body parts:
> _Twelve American soldiers face charges over a secret "kill team" that allegedly blew up and shot Afghan civilians at random and collected their fingers as trophies.
> 
> Five of the soldiers are charged with murdering three Afghan men who were allegedly killed for sport in separate attacks this year. Seven others are accused of covering up the killings and assaulting a recruit who exposed the murders when he reported other abuses, including members of the unit smoking hashish stolen from civilians._
> 
> US soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport and collected fingers as trophies' | World news | The Guardian​
> Massacring civilians and attempting to cover it up:
> _According to the Americans, the building collapsed under heavy fire killing four people - a suspect, two women and a child.
> 
> But a report filed by Iraqi police accused US troops of rounding up and deliberately shooting 11 people in the house, including five children and four women, before blowing up the building._
> 
> BBC NEWS | Middle East | New 'Iraq massacre' tape emerges​
> Cowards, the lot of them.
Click to expand...


They're not cowards, they're sick.  

Check out how the number of felons entering the military increased the longer the war went.

Considerations for Military Recruitment

http://www.palmcenter.org/files/active/0/boucaiM_strengthsFelonies_092007.pdf


----------



## geauxtohell

Ropey said:


> My mistake. I meant:
> 
> And you?
> 
> 
> 
> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you?
Click to expand...


Oh.  See above.


----------



## daveman

rdean said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Like I said, Islamic terrorists are _cowards_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These incidents can't be used to draw conclusions about anyone other than those involved in them. The fact that you had to turn to Iraq in a discussion about Palestine is an indication of how isolated these sorts of things are and how desperately you're grasping at straws. Let's use some isolated incidents to draw conclusions about American soldiers:
> 
> Gang raping a child; murdering her and her entire family (and, of course, being spared the death penalty):
> _In May, the jury found Green guilty of the rape of a 14-year-old Iraqi girl and the killing of her and her family near Baghdad in 2006.
> 
> Four other soldiers are serving sentences of between five and 110 years for their roles in the 2006 incident.
> 
> Three had admitted holding down Abeer Qassim al-Janabi, raping her and then killing her, her parents and her younger sister at the family's home in Mahmudiya before torching the building._
> 
> BBC NEWS | Americas | US soldier spared death penalty​
> Killing civilians for sport; collecting body parts:
> _Twelve American soldiers face charges over a secret "kill team" that allegedly blew up and shot Afghan civilians at random and collected their fingers as trophies.
> 
> Five of the soldiers are charged with murdering three Afghan men who were allegedly killed for sport in separate attacks this year. Seven others are accused of covering up the killings and assaulting a recruit who exposed the murders when he reported other abuses, including members of the unit smoking hashish stolen from civilians._
> 
> US soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport and collected fingers as trophies' | World news | The Guardian​
> Massacring civilians and attempting to cover it up:
> _According to the Americans, the building collapsed under heavy fire killing four people - a suspect, two women and a child.
> 
> But a report filed by Iraqi police accused US troops of rounding up and deliberately shooting 11 people in the house, including five children and four women, before blowing up the building._
> 
> BBC NEWS | Middle East | New 'Iraq massacre' tape emerges​
> Cowards, the lot of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They're not cowards, they're sick.
> 
> Check out how the number of felons entering the military increased the longer the war went.
> 
> Considerations for Military Recruitment
> 
> http://www.palmcenter.org/files/active/0/boucaiM_strengthsFelonies_092007.pdf
Click to expand...

Typical rdope:  Defends terrorists, condemns American servicemen.


----------



## Iranian_Gamer

This is for those guys who couldn't measure distance from venezuela to US.






And yes,our sejjil 2 missile have range about 2500 km,means it can reach US.

but I doubt US let venezuela do this.remember soviet union misslies in cuba.


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

Iranian_Gamer said:


> This is for those guys who couldn't measure distance from venezuela to US.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yes,our sejjil 2 missile have range about 2500 km,means it can reach US.
> 
> but I doubt US let venezuela do this.remember soviet union misslies in cuba.



You really from Iran?


----------



## uscitizen

I used a tool on the web to figure the distance.
How far is it from Miami FL to? - Distance Calculator

I picked Key west and miami to caracas and Maracalbo in nw VZ.


----------



## Mr Natural

Iranian_Gamer said:


> This is for those guys who couldn't measure distance from venezuela to US.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yes,our sejjil 2 missile have range about 2500 km,means it can reach US.
> 
> but I doubt US let venezuela do this.remember soviet union misslies in cuba.




Why would they want to take out Disney World?

Is that some kind of strategic target or something?


----------



## Philobeado

UPDATE 6-Venezuela assembly gives Chavez decree powers | Reuters





Philobeado said:


> "The situation that is unfolding in Venezuela has some resemblance to the Cuba crisis of 1962. At that time, Cuba was acting on behalf of the USSR; now Venezuela is acting on behalf of Iran. At present, the geopolitical situation is very different: the world is no longer ruled by two superpowers; new nations, often with questionable leaders and the ambition of acquiring global status, are appearing on the international scene. Their danger to the free world will be greater if the process of nuclear proliferation is not stopped. Among the nations that aspire to become world powers, Iran has certainly the best capabilities of posing a challenge to the West.
> 
> Back in the 1962, thanks to the stern stance adopted by the then Kennedy administration, the crisis was defused
> 
> Nowadays, however, we do not see the same firmness from the present administration. On the contrary, we see a lax attitude, both in language and in deeds, that results in extending hands when our adversaries have no intention of shaking hands with us. Iran is soon going to have a nuclear weapon, and there are no signs that UN sanctions will in any way deter the Ayatollah's regime from completing its nuclear program. We know that Iran already has missiles that can carry an atomic warhead over Israel and over the Arabian Peninsula. Now we learn that Iran is planning to build a missile base close to the US borders. How longer do we have to wait before the Obama administration begins to understand threats?"


----------

