# Red Tails



## Ringel05

Being a WWII enthusiast I've been waiting for to this movie.  Hopefully they don't Hollywood it too much.  

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpA6TC0T_Lw]Red Tails (2012) HD Movie Trailer - Lucasfilm Official Trailer - YouTube[/ame]


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## Mad Scientist

My Grandfather's Bomber squadron was escorted more than once by fighters from the 332nd (Red Tails) over Germany. In fact, on one mission there were about 50 fighters for only *two* bombers! 

The surviving Red Tail pilots make the Air Show circuit and I've always wanted to talk to one of them and find out what that was all about.


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## Ringel05

Mad Scientist said:


> My Grandfather's Bomber squadron was escorted more than once by fighters from the 332nd (Red Tails) over Germany. In fact, on one mission there were about 50 fighters for only *two* bombers!
> 
> The surviving Red Tail pilots make the Air Show circuit and I've always wanted to talk to one of them and find out what that was all about.



Being a reenactor and being part of these events I had more that a few opportunities to talk to former Red Tails, Band of Brothers members (even some of the actors) among many others who served in WWII (American and German).  It's amazing just to sit and talk to them about their experiences. 
I'd also like to see a movie on Patton's Panthers, the 761st tank battalion.

World War II: 761st Tank Battalion

Excellent book, amazing story.  

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Pattons-Panthers-African-American-761st-Battalion/dp/0743485009"]http://www.amazon.com/Pattons-Panthers-African-American-761st-Battalion/dp/0743485009[/ame]


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## namvet

the Lucasfilm site has much more on this

link


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## Skull Pilot

Remake of the Tuskegee Airmen.


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## Mr. H.

Looks a little too CGI.
But should be a good flick.


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## Skull Pilot

Mr. H. said:


> Looks a little too CGI.
> But should be a good flick.



Meh.

The original used actual WWII footage and I'll take that over special effects any day


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## namvet

just more high tech than the 95 version


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## High_Gravity

I'm going to see the movie next week.


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## rightwinger

Just wish it wasn't Lucas doing the film. The acting and dialog in his films tend to be horrible. More computer graphics than storyline


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## Sunni Man

Todays PC revisionist history crowd is trying to make the 332nd Red Tails into some kind of super hero's.

When in fact they were only a very minor footnote in the air war.

Plus by the time the negro pilots entered combat late in the war.

They were flying the vaunted P51 Mustang which was the best fighter to see action during WWII

The Luftwaffe by then was just a shell of it's former self and the German pilots were poorly trained and inexperienced for combat; and didn't present much of a challenge to the Allied pilots.


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## High_Gravity

Sunni Man said:


> They are trying to make the 332nd Red Tails into some kind of super hero's.
> 
> When in fact they were only a very minor footnote in the air war.
> 
> Plus by the time the negro pilots entered combat late in the war.
> 
> They were flying the vaunted P51 Mustang which was the best fighter to see action during WWII
> 
> The Luftwaffe by then was just a shell of it's former self and the German pilots were poorly trained and inexperienced for combat; and didn't present much of a challenge to the Allied pilots.



The reason they entered the war late is because they didn't want colored fighers on fighting missions until later.


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## rightwinger

Ringel05 said:


> Being a WWII enthusiast I've been waiting for to this movie.  Hopefully they don't Hollywood it too much.
> 
> Red Tails (2012) HD Movie Trailer - Lucasfilm Official Trailer - YouTube



I looked forward to seeing Pearl Harbor too

The movie trailer was spectacular but the movie was just a soap opera


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## sitarro

namvet said:


> just more high tech than the 95 version



My Dad was still alive when "Tuskegee Airmen" came out and I asked him about it since he flew a P-51 escorting B-17s from England to Germany in the war. My Father wasn't a bullshitter and was easily the most honest and decent man I've ever known and most importantly, he taught us from a very early age to not judge a person on what they had no control of .........skin color for example. He taught us to judge others on character.

All of that being said, the whole hoopla about the Tuskegee guys irritated him, not to any great extent, just enough to comment on it when I asked. He felt Hollywood exaggerated the accomplishments of these guys, that by doing so they pushed the idea that it was a shock that black guys could be good pilots. He went on to say that any pilots that survived all of the missions they went on were good pilots. It wasn't just the Germans or the Japanese that could knock a guy out of the sky, the aircraft itself could kill you. His problem was with the portrayal of these guys as the greatest pilots of WW2 and the bullshit attempt to make them seem more like the arrogant assholes of today.....black athletes that overly boast and celebrate in excess when they do the very thing they are paid huge contract to do. He told me he had met a number of the guys at reunions and in the Air Force that he served for 30 years. He said they weren't the guys portrayed at all. They were humble and proud of their accomplishments but didn't feel they were better pilots than any of the thousands that did a majority of the work. 

Another thing that doesn't seem to get mentioned was who they were flying against. The Luftwaffe had been decimated by the time they made it to Europe, they were sending up whatever they had left including kids with almost no flight experience at all, some to do unarmed suicide missions colliding with allied bombers. I wonder why that isn't made more clear, would it take some of the glory away from the Red Tails? Oh and as for the me262s like the one on the movie poster, only a "332nd fighter group" site claims 3 kills..... no other site even mentions the Tuskegee guys...... that sight also claim that no bomber was lost when they were escorting them, other sites claims bullshit and put the number of at least 25 lost.


This guy talks about the exaggerations.


Tuskegee Airman from South Portland talks truth vs. fiction ahead of 'Red Tails' release | The Forecaster


Tuskegee Airman from South Portland talks truth vs. fiction ahead of 'Red Tails' release
By Mario Moretto

SOUTH PORTLAND &#8212; The Tuskegee Airmen get together in a different city every year. The World War II veterans, who were the first black pilots in the U.S. military, meet to catch up with each other and swap stories. 

But a few years ago, in Philadelphia, they weren't alone.

They were joined by filmmaker George Lucas, who wanted to make a movie about the aviators. He had come to get their blessing, to ask them what they'd like to see in a film about their exploits in Europe.

"We told them to knock out all the crap," said Jim Sheppard, 87, a Tuskegee Airman who is originally from Harlem and has lived in South Portland for more than 30 years. "We were good enough on our own. We don't need people boosting us." 

More at link....


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## sitarro

I will be going to see and hear this flick....... whether it's accurate or not, or as George Lucas admitted in an interview on Jon Stewart's show.........George Lucas: 'Red Tails' was not 'green enough' for Hollywood studios

Lucas went on to say that he was inspired to make the film to inspire teenage boys around ideas of heroism and patriotism. "It's not Glory where you a lot of white officers running these guys into cannon fire. These are real heroes," he said.

I'll still go see it because I love the look and the sounds of WW2 aircraft, I don''t care who is flying them. From what I've seen, the dogfight sequences are the best so far........ a huge difference from Will Smith in his F-18 in "Independence Day". Those flight sequences were very silly looking, especially in the turns.

I've shown these shots before but there are a lot of new members so here they are........ a shot of my Dad and his P-51.......


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## Sunni Man

I love to go to War Bird air shows.

All of the planes are wonderful to look at and watch fly.

But when you hear a P51 Mustang coming from a distance and heading your way.

The engine sounds so strong and powerful; like a mechanical sympathy.

And as it zips by you and then starts to climb skyward.

Even a first time attendee to an air show can tell this plane is a pure thoroughbred with a top fuel hot rod engine.


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## sitarro

Sunni Man said:


> I love to go to War Bird air shows.
> 
> All of the planes are wonderful to look at and watch fly.
> 
> But when you hear a P51 Mustang coming from a distance and heading your way.
> 
> The engine sounds so strong and powerful; like a mechanical sympathy.
> 
> And as it zips by you and then starts to climb skyward.
> 
> Even a first time attendee to an air show can tell this plane is a pure thoroughbred with a top fuel hot rod engine.



Yes, there is nothing like the scream of a P-51, what irritates me is the air shows feel a need to play loud music during the show.......the guy narrating is bad enough but why cover the great sounds with a lousy song? I've been to a lot of air shows, saw the Thunderbirds in F-100! Love almost everything about them. I am hoping to go to the Reno Air Races this year and the Aviation Nation show in Vegas.


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## Sunni Man

sitarro said:


> Yes, there is nothing like the scream of a P-51, what irritates me is the air shows feel a need to play loud music during the show.......the guy narrating is bad enough but why cover the great sounds with a lousy song? I've been to a lot of air shows, saw the Thunderbirds in F-100! Love almost everything about them. I am hoping to go to the Reno Air Races this year and the Aviation Nation show in Vegas.


A few years ago I lived by the back entrance to the Pensacola Naval Air Station in Florida.

The Blue Angels practiced directly above my house during the air show season.

They flew the F-18 Hornet and boy were they loud.    

btw  the Naval Air Museum on the base at Pensacola is definitely worth a visit.


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## sitarro

Sunni Man said:


> sitarro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, there is nothing like the scream of a P-51, what irritates me is the air shows feel a need to play loud music during the show.......the guy narrating is bad enough but why cover the great sounds with a lousy song? I've been to a lot of air shows, saw the Thunderbirds in F-100! Love almost everything about them. I am hoping to go to the Reno Air Races this year and the Aviation Nation show in Vegas.
> 
> 
> 
> A few years ago I lived by the back entrance to the Pensacola Naval Air Station in Florida.
> 
> The Blue Angels practiced directly above my house during the air show season.
> 
> They flew the F-18 Hornet and boy were they loud.
> 
> btw  the Naval Air Museum on the base at Pensacola is definitely worth a visit.
Click to expand...


Did they look like this?


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## Sunni Man

Yea, they sure did.    

They also had the cargo support plane called "Fat Albert" that would do a rocket assist take off.


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## Sunni Man

High_Gravity said:


> The reason they entered the war late is because they didn't want colored fighers on fighting missions until later.


I am not saying anything derogatory about them or their service.

The negro pilots weren't any better or any worse than the thousands of other USAAF pilots.

They did their duty and should be commended for their service.


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## High_Gravity

Sunni Man said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> The reason they entered the war late is because they didn't want colored fighers on fighting missions until later.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not saying anything derogatory about them or their service.
> 
> The negro pilots weren't any better or any worse than the thousands of other USAAF pilots.
> 
> They did their duty and should be commended for their service.
Click to expand...


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## PopcornPictures

Newcomer to this wonderful site, please excuse my lack of protocol if I am out of line.  
I too am looking forward to a screening this weekend of Red Tails.  If any on here are interested in reviewing another WWII fighter pilot film, (non-CGI), please check out, 
"The Thundering 8th".


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## Sunni Man

PopcornPictures said:


> Newcomer to this wonderful site, please excuse my lack of protocol if I am out of line.
> I too am looking forward to a screening this weekend of Red Tails.  If any on here are interested in reviewing another WWII fighter pilot film, (non-CGI), please check out,
> "The Thundering 8th".


Thanks, I will check it out.


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## Lakhota

I'm looking forward to seeing this movie.  As I think of the great legacy of Dr. King, I am also reminded of the impact the Tuskegee Airmen had on the civil rights movement:

George Lucas: Hollywood Didn't Want To Fund 'Red Tails' Because Of Its Black Cast (VIDEO)

Lucas salutes Tuskegee Airmen with 'Red Tails'

George Lucas talks about filmmaking

Tuskegee Airmen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## sitarro

Lakhota said:


> I'm looking forward to seeing this movie.  As I think of the great legacy of Dr. King, I am also reminded of the impact the Tuskegee Airmen had on the civil rights movement:
> 
> George Lucas: Hollywood Didn't Want To Fund 'Red Tails' Because Of Its Black Cast (VIDEO)
> 
> Lucas salutes Tuskegee Airmen with 'Red Tails'
> 
> George Lucas talks about filmmaking
> 
> Tuskegee Airmen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



HaHaHa.....good one! I think I feel a bowel movement coming on and now your post will remind me of the impact of your words and what they have on me. Dr. King......... what a joke...... he was only after "the pussy" and has landed GOD like status.....


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## editec

Mad Scientist said:


> My Grandfather's Bomber squadron was escorted more than once by fighters from the 332nd (Red Tails) over Germany. In fact, on one mission there were about 50 fighters for only *two* bombers!
> 
> The surviving Red Tail pilots make the Air Show circuit and I've always wanted to talk to one of them and find out what that was all about.


 
Post the battle of Britian, how many fighters did the Luafwaffe actually have?

Not many, I'll wager.


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## Katzndogz

The Tuskeegee Airmen certainly deserve recognition for their bravery and accomplishments.  It wasn't because they are black that Hollywood did not want to make the movie about them, but because movies with all black casts do not make money.

Hollywood, despits its vocal screaming about income inequality is really all about making money.


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## Mad Scientist

sitarro said:


> I've shown these shots before but there are a lot of new members so here they are........ a shot of my Dad and his P-51.......


North American built P-51's in only two places; Los Angeles and Dallas. Your Dad's Mustang was built in Los Angeles. The bubble canopy of L.A. built Mustangs was a perfect curve. The Dallas built ones were *slightly* flattened like this:







I'm still planning to build a model of your Dad's plane, I know where to get the exact decals for the cowling. It's in a *long line* of models I have to get to, maybe this summer? After I finish it I'll post pics.


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## Ringel05

editec said:


> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> My Grandfather's Bomber squadron was escorted more than once by fighters from the 332nd (Red Tails) over Germany. In fact, on one mission there were about 50 fighters for only *two* bombers!
> 
> The surviving Red Tail pilots make the Air Show circuit and I've always wanted to talk to one of them and find out what that was all about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Post the battle of Britian, how many fighters did the Luafwaffe actually have?
> 
> Not many, I'll wager.
Click to expand...


German fighter and bomber production increased two fold by 1941, the Battle of Britain ended, for all account and purposes at the end of 1940.  It wasn't until late 1944 that the Luftwaffe had lost most of it's experienced pilots and that was due to the "Jug" P-47 Thunderbolt, Spitfires, Mosquitoes and the Russian Yak-3.  The Mustang was a johnny-come-lately into the fray after Germany had stationed most of it's fighter aircraft to protect strategic industries from American and British bomber raids but far enough away from allied (pre-mustang) fighter range.
This is not to say the Mustang pilots had an easy time of it, the 109 was arguably one of the best fighter aircraft during WWII and Germany still had very good pilots until just before DD after our prolonged mission to destroy Germany's Fighter groups in preparation for the landings in Normandy.


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## namvet

my my is liberal Hollywood showing its racism????


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## TruthSeeker56

sitarro said:


> HaHaHa.....good one! I think I feel a bowel movement coming on and now your post will remind me of the impact of your words and what they have on me. Dr. King......... what a joke...... he was only after "the pussy" and has landed GOD like status.....



That's funny.  Lakhota's putrid postings have the same effect on me, except I never know for sure if I want to vomit or do some "Hershey squirting".


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## sitarro

Mad Scientist said:


> sitarro said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've shown these shots before but there are a lot of new members so here they are........ a shot of my Dad and his P-51.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> North American built P-51's in only two places; Los Angeles and Dallas. Your Dad's Mustang was built in Los Angeles. The bubble canopy of L.A. built Mustangs was a perfect curve. The Dallas built ones were *slightly* flattened like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still planning to build a model of your Dad's plane, I know where to get the exact decals for the cowling. It's in a *long line* of models I have to get to, maybe this summer? After I finish it I'll post pics.
Click to expand...


Hey Mad, I found this shot somewhere on the web, it was coming in for a landing......... I ripped off the gear and gave it the look of a low, high speed pass. The diamond pattern is a bit different but these are my Dad's colors. I like the D-Day stripes but I don't think his had them.


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