# The 2015 Israeli legislative (Knesset) election thread



## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

Photo source.​
Israeli legislative election 2015 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

and, as reference:

Opinion polling for the Israeli legislative election 2015 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


The polls are open in Eretz Yisrael from 07:00-22:00, GMT +2. Like most of Europe, Israel is not yet on daylight savings time, so right now, Israel is _6 hours_ ahead of the East Coast of the USA, which means that the polls will close at 4 PM today, EDT. This is the 20th Knesset election in Israel's (modern) history. Almost 6,000,000 Israelis are eligible to vote and there are 10,000 polling stations throughout that small country. In 2013, almost 3.6 million votes were cast. Wait and see how many will be cast today.  15 different parties (called "lists") are on the ballot today.

The Jerusalem Post is reporting that turnout for today's election is expected to be massive:

Israel Elections Benjamin Netanyahu casts vote as massive turnout expected for 20th Knesset elections - Israel Elections - Jerusalem Post

Election day is a *Holiday *in Eretz Yisrael, and voting usually takes 15-20 minutes, tops, so Israelis go vote and then enjoy a nice day.

Here's a quality, sober write-up from the JP about what election day means to Israelis:

A grand celebration of Israeli democracy - Israel Elections - Jerusalem Post

When the polls close at 22:00, Israeli news is likely to start publishing preliminary results. *Be very careful of interpreting prelims.* There will still be votes to be counted. And in terms of a possibly very thin margin for one "list" or the other, the actual coalition-building that ensues may take some days.

The threshhold for any party to get into the Knesset is 3.25% of the total national vote. This means that the little parties have to hoof-it to get to *3.25%*, otherwise, they fall out of the Knesset seat statistic.

Here three links about the electoral history of Eretz Yisrael:

Israeli Electoral History Jewish Virtual Library

Elections in Israel - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

https://www.knesset.gov.il/description/eng/eng_mimshal_beh.htm

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*As the returns are coming in, I will be posting them on this thread.

It would be nice to keep this thread clear of nasty partisan commentary and simply let the results be reported. Feel free to post enlightening commentary from all sides, as far as I am concerned, but plase, avoid the nastiness that can ensue.  There will be plenty of time afterwards, on other threads, for people to be nasty. Regardless of your positions, witnessing Democracy in action, I believe, is good for all of us.*


Coyote westwall AVG-JOE - I thought this thread might especially interest you three as Election Day in Israel progresses. And I am gone for most of the day....


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## gtopa1 (Mar 17, 2015)

Bibi4eva!!!!

Greg


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## gtopa1 (Mar 17, 2015)

Something one should always remember:


> Back in Tel Aviv, Doron remarked that Israel’s dramatic political landscape has become ripe ground for incitement. "We have to live with each other after these elections," she said. "People are very torn right now."



Israel polls set to open in key election - Al Jazeera English

This is going to be an interesting count.

Greg


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## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

gtopa1 said:


> Something one should always remember:
> 
> 
> > Back in Tel Aviv, Doron remarked that Israel’s dramatic political landscape has become ripe ground for incitement. "We have to live with each other after these elections," she said. "People are very torn right now."
> ...



I would submit to you that a divisive political environment can sometimes, but not always, be a productive thing and to it's great credit, Israel, just like the USA, is not afraid to let the world see it's dirty laundry in the election process. I consider it a refreshing sign of greatness. What is important to me is that as many voters as possible make their voices heard, then that is true democracy. According to the JP, there are more registered voters in Eretz Yisrael than ever before and regardless whether this results in a nail-biter or a landslide, this is a good thing, in my book.


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## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

Thanks for opening this thread up! 

According to mid-day(12) update, the voting percentage  for now stands on *26.7%*


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## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush - L'aila Tov!

I am VERY glad that you are here and will publish some updates.

So, only 5 hours have gone by, 10 more to go, and already almost 27% of eligible voters in Eretz Yisrael have cast their votes. Outstanding!   I am hoping for an 80% turnout, which would be over 5 million votes.



Please post here often today.


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## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

Today's headline:


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## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> Lipush - L'aila Tov!
> 
> I am VERY glad that you are here and will publish some updates.
> 
> ...








I went voting very early, it was before 9 AM that I finished there (we vote at the town's only school) and it was only one man standing in line for the ballot I was registered to, so thankfully didn't have to wait a long time.

Waiting patiently to see how it all turns out


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## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

Worldwide: Last report says that* 71.2%* of Israelis abroad voted for the Israeli 20th elections


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## Coyote (Mar 17, 2015)

In the US we have regions that tend to be red (conservative) and blue (liberal) with urban areas predictably more liberal.  How does that play out in Israel?

Also....mostly, when we hear the news, the issues on Israel that get reported are national security, peace process, Iran.  What are the important domestic issues playing out in this election?


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## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

Coyote said:


> In the US we have regions that tend to be red (conservative) and blue (liberal) with urban areas predictably more liberal.  How does that play out in Israel?
> 
> Also....mostly, when we hear the news, the issues on Israel that get reported are national security, peace process, Iran.  What are the important domestic issues playing out in this election?



In Israel doesn't go by colors, what you can find is inner polls of parties which are not always credible, and you at times can find perscentage by cities and towns if you really follow.

To answer your second question, the ones who put emphasis on the inner issues (mostly economics and social issues) are in the Zionist Union and Meretz.

Also, by what it seems, the voting for Meretz this time around are low. We still have hours to go, but they're not overjoyed in Meretz.


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## Coyote (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush said:


> Coyote said:
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> > In the US we have regions that tend to be red (conservative) and blue (liberal) with urban areas predictably more liberal.  How does that play out in Israel?
> ...



What are the main domestic issues for Israel right now?


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## aris2chat (Mar 17, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Lipush said:
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cost of living, high rents, limited housing, high cost of military and security.........


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## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush said:


> Worldwide: Last report says that* 71.2%* of Israelis abroad voted for the Israeli 20th elections



*That would be about 4.3 million votes cast, considerably more than in 2013. Good for the Democratic process, to be sure.*


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## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush* - is there an area or areas in Eretz Yisrael that is/are considered Likud bastions where, if voting goes out the roof, it is good for Bibi. And conversely, the same question for Zionist Union?

Is Tel Aviv pretty much split? How about Sderot?

Would it be fair to assume that many ultra-orthodox votes will come from settlement areas?

What about Jlem?*


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## Penelope (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush said:


> Worldwide: Last report says that* 71.2%* of Israelis abroad voted for the Israeli 20th elections



and how many would that be? The total no. of Israelis abroad?


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## Penelope (Mar 17, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> Lipush said:
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> > Worldwide: Last report says that* 71.2%* of Israelis abroad voted for the Israeli 20th elections
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4.3 million Israelies voted from abroad, I thought we only had like 5 million in the US, who all gets to vote?


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## Hossfly (Mar 17, 2015)

Penelope said:


> Lipush said:
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> > Worldwide: Last report says that* 71.2%* of Israelis abroad voted for the Israeli 20th elections
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Counting the Lost Tribes, about 67 million. No one knows for sure.


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## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

Penelope said:


> Lipush said:
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> > Worldwide: Last report says that* 71.2%* of Israelis abroad voted for the Israeli 20th elections
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Penelope said:


> Statistikhengst said:
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*I am sorry, Penelope, but your postings make absolutely no sense to adults at all. We are talking about voters eligible to vote in today's election in Eretz Yisrael, which means they must be Israeli citizens and have Israeli identification. Most all of them surely lived within the borders of Eretz Yisrael. A small percentage (as in, ambassadorial teams, etc) live abroad, but that must be a very small percentage, indeed.

You are surely welcome to post here, especially if you want to post interesting information, but trolling is not really in in 2015. Just sayin...*


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## Hossfly (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush what's the latest update?


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## Penelope (Mar 17, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


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I'll research on my own, if we have Americans who vote here and then also get to vote in Israel that would not be right.


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## Penelope (Mar 17, 2015)

so you have no idea how many Israelis are abroad, funny. I think most adults can understand that question.


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## Dot Com (Mar 17, 2015)

subbed 

Israelis vote as King Bibi s reign hangs in the balance Reuters


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## Phoenall (Mar 17, 2015)

Penelope said:


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 What about the rest of the world then, or do you think the universe revolves around your nation ?


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## Hossfly (Mar 17, 2015)

Penelope said:


> so you have no idea how many Israelis are abroad, funny. I think most adults can understand that question.


There are only 12-13 million Jews. Around 4 million Jews live in Israel.

JewishPost.com - Israeli Citizens Abroad Necessary For Growth of Israel


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## Phoenall (Mar 17, 2015)

Penelope said:


> so you have no idea how many Israelis are abroad, funny. I think most adults can understand that question.






 And most children can understand that this is not the place to ask it.


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## Coyote (Mar 17, 2015)

*Folks, let's try to stay on topic please and not derail into flaming.*


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## teddyearp (Mar 17, 2015)

Wow, the polls are open until 2200 (i.e. 10 pm).  So as it is 10:05 am PDT Mar 17, 2015 at the time of this posting, there are still three hours left.

Thank you Statin(will maul rest) for starting this thread, I hope for meaningful updates here as well.

Daniyel are you awake and voting today?

And another thank you to Lipush for the updates!


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## Coyote (Mar 17, 2015)

*In Jaffa, an upturn in Israeli-Arab voter turnout*



> JAFFA – In all his 36 years, local resident Maron Jiries has never voted in an Israeli election. But on Tuesday, standing outside his polling station in Jaffa – the mixed Arab-Jewish city adjoining Tel Aviv – with his daughter pulling impatiently on his arm so they can get going, Jiries explains why, for the first time in his life, he cast his vote.
> 
> It was the historical union in January of the Arab parties under the umbrella of the new Joint List – comprising United Arab List-Ta’al and Balad, the Islamic Movement and the Jewish-Arab party Hadash – that convinced Jiries to vote at the station, at the Hassan Arafeh School on Kedem Street.
> 
> One of the major stories of the 20th Knesset election has been the Arab vote, which, as a result of the confidence engendered by that merger, is expected to result in an all-time-high turnout once the ballots are tallied.


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## Dot Com (Mar 17, 2015)

Candidate takes one last swipe  :


As Israel votes Netanyahu takes swipe at Arabs - Yahoo News


> JERUSALEM (AP) — With his political future in question, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Tuesday made a last-ditch appeal to hard-liners as the country went to the polls in a tight parliamentary election, saying that high Arab voter turnout was endangering his right-wing party's dominance.


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## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

Hossfly said:


> Penelope said:
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> > so you have no idea how many Israelis are abroad, funny. I think most adults can understand that question.
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*But about 6 million ISRAELIS are eligible to vote today, or so was reported in the J Post.

See: OP

This is again a tribute to Democracy in Israel.*


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## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

teddyearp said:


> Wow, the polls are open until 2200 (i.e. 10 pm).  So as it is 10:05 am PDT Mar 17, 2015 at the time of this posting, there are still three hours left.
> 
> Thank you Statin(will maul rest) for starting this thread, I hope for meaningful updates here as well.
> 
> ...




LOL.... Statin.... LOL.

Hey, Daniyel - didn't mean to forget you.

Hope you voted today.


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## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

*THIS IS COOL:*


Reporter s Notebook Meet the woman who voted in all 20 Israeli elections - Israel Elections - Jerusalem Post

*Enjoy. THIS IS INSPIRATIONAL.*


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## Osomir (Mar 17, 2015)

What would be inspirational would be basic civil and political rights for Palestinians.


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## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

*Some more interesting information, this time from Haaretz:*

LIVE BLOG Netanyahu on election panel decision to ban his speech No one will shut us up - Israel election 2015 - Israel News Haaretz



> Ballots are being cast at 10,372 polling stations throughout Israel, and will remain open until 10 P.M. There are *5,881,696 Israelis (citizens over the age of 18)* who are eligible to vote today for the 20th Knesset.
> 
> The weather is good and many Israelis are likely to take outdoor advantage of the public holiday.




*and:

Interesting voter turnout graphic, in 2 hour increments, from 2006 to 2015:*







*THAT IS COOL INFORMATION,

And, strite over election law:*



> *6:50 P.M. Netanyahu slams election panel decision to bar his address from the airwaves*
> 
> Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said "no one will shut us up," after the Central Elections Committee barred the media from airing his address, deeming it "illegal election propaganda."
> 
> ...


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## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

Penelope said:


> so you have no idea how many Israelis are abroad, funny. I think most adults can understand that question.




*That is irrelevant. Every Israeli citizen above the age of 18 has the right to vote.
Any one citizen's current geography is of no interest to anyone.
I am a US-citizen who works in Germany. I have a right to and I vote in every single US election that is relevant to me. My current geography does not change my status as a US-Citizen.

GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD.*


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## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

*Google marks today with a festive doodle:*


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## Dot Com (Mar 17, 2015)

Sounds just like a U.S. Repub

 Advertisement


> Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said "no one will shut us up," after the Central Elections Committee barred the media from airing his address, deeming it "illegal election propaganda."
> 
> "All day, politicians have been talking in the media. Tzipi, Bougi and Yair Lapid talked in every possible TV studio and issued obvious campaign propaganda. The only one barred from talking over the media – is me. The Likud prime minister," Netanyahu said in a Facebook post.
> 
> ...


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## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush Daniyel Coyote Hossfly Mertex Derideo_Te guno 

*Folks, I have to get to work and the prelim results will be coming in while I am still working. I would greatly appreciate it if one or all of you could be on the thread at 4 PM EDT to post the prelim results, which I am sure you can find in the Jerusalem Post or Haaretz, both very good, solid publications.

I know that the topic Israel / ME raises lots of emotions, but it sure would be great for us to simply stick to today's big event.  I will remind that Arabs living in Eretz Yisrael are also voting today, as is their right. As I wrote to Hossfly earlier, this is part of what makes Yisrael a great Democracy like the USA.

I will be home about 90 minutes after the prelims come in and will do a post-mortem of the whole thing over the next day.  Again, based on the prognoses, it may take a number of days to see who can build a majority coalition. Unless an unexpected landslide suddenly happens, I wouldn't place too much emphasis on the prelims....*


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## Coyote (Mar 17, 2015)

Some interesting comments in this article:

As Israel goes to the polls on Tuesday to elect a new government, here are 11 key election analyses from Haaretz's columnists and writers:

11 must reads on Israel s election before the polls close - Israel election 2015 - Israel News Haaretz



> The lack of a dominant ruling party is the standout fault in the Israeli political system. The core of any coalition is only about a fifth of the Knesset or less, and with so many voters turning to so many smaller parties, the prime minister is left beholden to potential vetoes and can't produce a coherent and cohesive policy, *Aluf Benn writes*.
> 
> Born in 1949, Benjamin Netanyahu is the first prime minister born in the country’s first decade of existence. Now he must yield, *Amir Oren argues*, to those born in the second decade, children of the 1967 and 1973 wars, who grew up against the backdrop of Jewish settlements in the territories, intifadas and shifts in government control between Likud and Labor.
> 
> ...



Can't imagine how a "rotation government" would have worked effectively.

I like this picture from the article


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## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

Coyote said:


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Mainly economics, specifically housing.


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## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

Penelope said:


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> > Worldwide: Last report says that* 71.2%* of Israelis abroad voted for the Israeli 20th elections
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I dunno


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## Coyote (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush said:


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What are the other economic issues?

Out of curiosity - there had been a proposed "rotation" government at one time.  How does that work in reality?  Has that been done before?  Your elections are much more interesting (and confusing) then our rigidly 2-party system.


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## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> Lipush* - is there an area or areas in Eretz Yisrael that is/are considered Likud bastions where, if voting goes out the roof, it is good for Bibi. And conversely, the same question for Zionist Union?
> 
> Is Tel Aviv pretty much split? How about Sderot?
> 
> ...



I believe Tel Aviv will be the base of Meretz and 'The Zionist Union', since it holds the greatest amount of Liberal Israelis. I know that Be'er Sheva has many Likud voters. The Gaza vicinity is also 'Zionist Union'.


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## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

Hossfly said:


> Lipush what's the latest update?



Sorry I wasn't on the computer. According to 6 PM, it was about 54.7%, IDF soldiers' vote on the rise (59% compared to 54% last round). Another update should be as we speak, the 8PM one, so we wait.


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## Dot Com (Mar 17, 2015)

It will be interesting to see if Likud act like grown-ups if they lose or U.S. Repubs and sit on their hands (block everything)?


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## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

Coyote said:


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LOL, yeah, it's confusing. In theory, it supposed to be 2 years, 2 years. But I can't recall when it was last time this thing worked, maybe when I was young and I don't remember. But yesterday Livni said that if it's a problem for voters, she'll give up her round. reactions were mixed concerning that statement. Some called it "selfless" and "heroic", other thought it was their party grasping at straws, desparate to bring voters.


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## teddyearp (Mar 17, 2015)

Dot com, I do not think that is the way it does nor can work in Israel.


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## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

Dot Com said:


> It will be interesting to see if Likud act like grown-ups if they lose or U.S. Repubs and sit on their hands (block everything)?



It's democracy, whether they like it or not, if they lose, it's because the people said their word.


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## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush said:


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Or maybe, just pragmatism.  On the way to work. I love tapatalk !

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk


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## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)




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## Hossfly (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush said:


> Dot Com said:
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> > It will be interesting to see if Likud act like grown-ups if they lose or U.S. Repubs and sit on their hands (block everything)?
> ...


My only concern is that the Israeli people don't fall for any of that "Hope and Change" BS that America has been saddled with for 6 years.


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## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

Hossfly said:


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Yeah, but it IS a time for a change.... we had Bibi for like...FOREVER.


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## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush it would be great if you could post the 8 pm voter turnout stats since I'm on the road. I found the last stats on Haaretz. Toda raba! 

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk


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## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

OF course. As soon as I have them The 2 oclock one was delayed:/


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## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

Hossfly said:


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I will still drink a whiskey with you. ..

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk


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## Hossfly (Mar 17, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


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Well, Stats, I surely hope you never change.


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## teddyearp (Mar 17, 2015)

stats sounds like it works better than statin(mangled).

And I'm sober!


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## Hossfly (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush said:


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Just as long as they don't give up security for a bunch of pipe dreams like we did.


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## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

Hossfly said:


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Life IS change, friend. And the universe is unfolding as HaShem wants it to unfold. Always a pleasure to hear from you. 

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk


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## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

teddyearp said:


> stats sounds like it works better than statin(mangled).
> 
> And I'm sober!


Hallelujah!  Now, how many fingers am I holding up? 

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk


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## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


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you guyz are cute


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## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

8PM update: Voting percentage stands on *65.7%*


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## Hossfly (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush said:


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I'm cute! Stat is scary looking with his pony tail, beard and pink Granny glasses.


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## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)




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## Penelope (Mar 17, 2015)

I never seen so many voters as I did in 08, never had to stand in line, but the lines were double and out the door. Has never been that way before or sense. I have voted in the same place since 92. Its exciting. Stayed up real late in 2000, hanging chads, finally had to go to bed.


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## IlarMeilyr (Mar 17, 2015)

All the usual USMB anti-Semites and the usual suspects in the "WHY DON'T YOU JUST DIE, ISRAEL?" crowd are salivating at the prospect that Obumbler may have succeeded in ousting Netanyahu.


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## Moonglow (Mar 17, 2015)

Is there a voting block for the Jews that are only Jewish from the waist down?


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## Coyote (Mar 17, 2015)

IlarMeilyr said:


> All the usual USMB anti-Semites and the usual suspects in the "WHY DON'T YOU JUST DIE, ISRAEL?" crowd are salivating at the prospect that Obumbler may have succeeded in ousting Netanyahu.



Play nice Ilar...pretty please?  In this thread?


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## IlarMeilyr (Mar 17, 2015)

Coyote said:


> IlarMeilyr said:
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> ...



Ok.  Although I am pretty sick of some of the commentary from folks who keep showing their true colors.

I will refrain from further posting in this thread.


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## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

What seems now is like this: Herzog and Bibi's head to head gets them the same amount of mandates, give or take one. Kakhlon turns out to be the election's surprise, with 11-13 mandates. Bibi crushed Liberman and Bennet. Hertzog's rise leaves Lapid way behind with about 12 mandates. Eli Yishai still struggles.

Kakhlon will be the one to determine the government's character.


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## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

A nice gig in Tel-Aviv restaurant today


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## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

The president votes:


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## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

The soldiers:


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## Daniyel (Mar 17, 2015)

When there will be results I'll summarize them, so far there are less than 60% voters in the Arabs which only strengthen the Likud, because many actually vote Likud and there are the soldiers which are about 3 mandates.. we may have clear picture in the next 4 minutes.


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## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

The Likud Party: 27

The Zionist Union Party: 27

Arab Union: 13

The Jewish House party: 8

Yesh Atid party: 11

Kulanu party: 10

Shas Party: 7

Torah Judaism: 7

Israel Beiteinu: 5

Meretz: 5


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## Penelope (Mar 17, 2015)

And what does that mean, PM Bibi is back in.


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## JakeStarkey (Mar 17, 2015)

If he can make a coalition.


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## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

Penelope said:


> And what does that mean, PM Bibi is back in.



We'll have to wait and see who succeeds in creating a coalition.


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## Daniyel (Mar 17, 2015)

Likud 28
Zionist Camp (Hertzog-Livni) 26
Arab List 13
Yesh Atid 12
Bait Yehudi 9
Kolanu 9
Shas 7
Israel Beitenu 5
Meretz 4
Basically that's the first count, now don't forget another 2-3 voices of the soldiers, that mostly would vote for Likud, kiss good bye all the millions of dollars.


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## Coyote (Mar 17, 2015)

What predictions are there and how many seats are needed for a coalition?  Is it a simple majority?


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## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

Coyote said:


> What predictions are there and how many seats are needed for a coalition?  Is it a simple majority?




It's a matter of popularity. Think of it like a teenage girl trying to convince the other girls to crown her as prom-queen.


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## JakeStarkey (Mar 17, 2015)

61 seats in a 120 seat chamber


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## Daniyel (Mar 17, 2015)

Actually all over the radio you hear that the Likud is leading on 28 and the Zionist Camp (pffff) standing on 26.


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## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

Coyote said:


> What predictions are there and how many seats are needed for a coalition?  Is it a simple majority?



Yep, 61 seats.

It's all going to come down to Kulanu,  as I read it.


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## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

Daniyel said:


> Actually all over the radio you hear that the Likud is leading on 28 and the Zionist Camp (pffff) standing on 26.




I liked the pfft part. 

I said in the title that it's according to channel 10, so of course there can be differences. Which models you follow, Daniyel?


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## Daniyel (Mar 17, 2015)

JakeStarkey said:


> 61 seats in a 120 seat chamber


Its even more dynamic, there are 21 ministers.


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## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

theDoctorisIn said:


> Coyote said:
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> > What predictions are there and how many seats are needed for a coalition?  Is it a simple majority?
> ...



Yup.


----------



## Coyote (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush 

Could we combine this with the other thread?


----------



## Osomir (Mar 17, 2015)

Time for the king makers to play their hands.


----------



## Phoenall (Mar 17, 2015)

Osomir said:


> What would be inspirational would be basic civil and political rights for Palestinians.






 That is up to their government to provide those not Israel. You would not expect America to give them American civil rights and political rights now would you.


----------



## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

You're the mod, no need to ask me, lol. I thought it's more comfortable but sure


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

These are exit polls, not results, by the way. Polls closed 10 minutes ago.


----------



## Daniyel (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > Actually all over the radio you hear that the Likud is leading on 28 and the Zionist Camp (pffff) standing on 26.
> ...


The Radio (Reshet Bet) summarize all channels, so far most are reporting Likud is leading, hopefully 'Yahad' will also pass.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Mar 17, 2015)

Kulanu will tip the coalition.


----------



## Osomir (Mar 17, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Osomir said:
> 
> 
> > What would be inspirational would be basic civil and political rights for Palestinians.
> ...



They are living under Israeli occupation. They aren't allowed to be sovereign by nature of the occupation.


----------



## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

Daniyel said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > Daniyel said:
> ...



I don't think they counted the soldiers yet, fix me if I'm wrong


----------



## Daniyel (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...


That's correct, and none are final.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Road To Elections 2015 - Arutz Sheva


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

How reliable is Channel 2 there? They have the Likud winning (unofficially) 28-27.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

TemplarKormac said:


> How reliable is Channel 2 there? They have the Likud winning (unofficially) 28-27.



It's all exit polling. None of them are particularly reliable.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

I'm also hearing that Netanyahu is wanting to form a right wing bloc with Naftali Bennett.


----------



## Coyote (Mar 17, 2015)

So....how does building a coalition work - is it the winner who has to try to build it or can any of the groups try to form coalitions to build a majority?


----------



## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

TemplarKormac said:


> How reliable is Channel 2 there? They have the Likud winning (unofficially) 28-27.



Channel 2 is the central channel, actually. I follow channel 10 because it's more comfortably arrenged for the viewer, but it's also credible.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

I'm also reading via twitter that if exit polls are confirmed, Yachad will fail to make the Knesset.


----------



## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

Coyote said:


> So....how does building a coalition work - is it the winner who has to try to build it or can any of the groups try to form coalitions to build a majority?



The leading parties try to assemble a coalition, but they can aso fail in doing so. That what happened with Tzipi Livni years ago. She won by voted, but couldn't assemble a coalition, so Bibi rose as PM with the Likud.


----------



## Phoenall (Mar 17, 2015)

Osomir said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Osomir said:
> ...






They have the right to vote in elections for the P.A. it is hamas that is stopping the elections from taking place. But remember if you give the arab muslims the Israeli vote then you also give Israel the arab muslim vote. Now where would that leave the arab muslims ?
 What next giving the arab muslims the vote in America, UK, France, Germany etc.


----------



## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

TemplarKormac said:


> I'm also reading via twitter that if exit polls are confirmed, Yachad will fail to make the Knesset.



Theoretically, yes. But we know for sure only once the soldiers' votes are counted, as well.


----------



## Penelope (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > So....how does building a coalition work - is it the winner who has to try to build it or can any of the groups try to form coalitions to build a majority?
> ...



so this could go on for how long, weeks?


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

It looks to me like Netanyahu has the clear path to form a coalition once again. Thursday is judgement day, though. Let's not get too excited...


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > I'm also reading via twitter that if exit polls are confirmed, Yachad will fail to make the Knesset.
> ...



Agreed.


----------



## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

TemplarKormac said:


> I'm also hearing that Netanyahu is wanting to form a right wing bloc with Naftali Bennett.



Which is kind of Ironic, considering he fired in the tank and now Bennett is more than pissed.


----------



## Coyote (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > So....how does building a coalition work - is it the winner who has to try to build it or can any of the groups try to form coalitions to build a majority?
> ...



Interesting - so who ever can finagle a majority through a coalition is the winner...must make for some strange bedmates at times.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

TemplarKormac said:


> It looks to me like Netanyahu has the clear path to form a coalition once again. Thursday is judgement day, though. Let's not get too excited...



It's all going to come down to Kulanu. Both sides have a "clear path" if they get Kahlon.


----------



## Phoenall (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > So....how does building a coalition work - is it the winner who has to try to build it or can any of the groups try to form coalitions to build a majority?
> ...






 It is all down to what concessions the leading party is prepared to offer the lower ranked parties, and then on what the lower ranked parties will accept. We in the UK face a similar situation in May when we hold our national elections, already the major parties are playing footsy with the minor ones to garner support. Nothing is settled until the results are in and the numbers are worked out. Labour are talking with the SNP because the SNP look like taking all the votes in Scotland, then the SNP will push for independence before the end of the next parliament. The Tories are looking at a possible marriage of lib dems or UKIP as the next government. Too many fingers in the pie will not be good for anyone.


----------



## Daniyel (Mar 17, 2015)

All the millions spent, all the spins and the dirt, all went down haha


----------



## Coyote (Mar 17, 2015)

theDoctorisIn said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > It looks to me like Netanyahu has the clear path to form a coalition once again. Thursday is judgement day, though. Let's not get too excited...
> ...



Interesting sounding party: Kulanu - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## Meathead (Mar 17, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Interesting - so who ever can finagle a majority through a coalition is the winner...must make for some strange bedmates at times.


Ah, the pearls of acute observation from a senior mod of a political forum.

Good Lord!


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

theDoctorisIn said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > It looks to me like Netanyahu has the clear path to form a coalition once again. Thursday is judgement day, though. Let's not get too excited...
> ...



It would be difficult for the Likud to gain his support again.


----------



## Coyote (Mar 17, 2015)

Meathead said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting - so who ever can finagle a majority through a coalition is the winner...must make for some strange bedmates at times.
> ...



You have a problem?


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

Wow, it looks like Bibi's been playing some dirty politics. He's not making friends with Kahlon.

Likud forged recording of Kahlon support


----------



## Phoenall (Mar 17, 2015)

Coyote said:


> So....how does building a coalition work - is it the winner who has to try to build it or can any of the groups try to form coalitions to build a majority?






 An party can go for a coalition, but it helps if you have a lot of seats already. When two parties are close to the magic 50% then the bids become harder less concessions are give way, it is only when the numbers are low that more is given away


----------



## Daniyel (Mar 17, 2015)

theDoctorisIn said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > It looks to me like Netanyahu has the clear path to form a coalition once again. Thursday is judgement day, though. Let's not get too excited...
> ...


He would go with the Likud since Yesh Atid - the second to claim for the 'financial agenda' - are those(basically Yair Lapid) caused Bibi to disassemble the Knesset in the first place and it is way more complicated for the left to assemble some sort of opposition which oppose itself (Ultra Orthodox Socialists that naturally would go with Bibi although they're considered Left wingers for instance) than it is for Bibi to assemble the 80% coalition there is.


----------



## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

Penelope said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...




Until they reach any sort of agreement, or until the president does something if it gets out of hand.

It can take awhile.


----------



## Coyote (Mar 17, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



I can see the advantages and disadvantages.  We essentially have two parties.  There are other small parties but they rarely perform well outside of local or state elections.  It's pretty much Dem or Pub and both parties have to try to appeal to both their base and a broader selection that they end up really not representing many of us imo.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

I really doubt Netanyahu will gain Kahlon. Not after what he pulled...


----------



## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

TemplarKormac said:


> I really doubt Netanyahu will gain Kahlon. Not after what he pulled...



He still has the orthodox parties, And Bennet and Liberman.


----------



## Penelope (Mar 17, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



I think we need to get rid of the electoral college and go by popular vote.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Interesting, I'm also reading that there may have been a "fictitious party" formed to harm the Yachad. I don't know how fraud works in Israel, but isn't an attempt to mislead voters illegal?

Fictitious Party Meant to Harm Yachad - Inside Israel - News - Arutz Sheva


----------



## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

TemplarKormac said:


> Interesting, I'm also reading that there may have been a "fictitious party" formed to harm the Yachad. I don't know how fraud works in Israel, but isn't an attempt to mislead voters illegal?
> 
> Fictitious Party Meant to Harm Yachad - Inside Israel - News - Arutz Sheva



Shas.

Nuff said.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

TemplarKormac said:


> Interesting, I'm also reading that there may have been a "fictitious party" formed to harm the Yachad. I don't know how fraud works in Israel, but isn't an attempt to mislead voters illegal?
> 
> Fictitious Party Meant to Harm Yachad - Inside Israel - News - Arutz Sheva



It's not "fraud" anywhere to use similar Hebrew characters as a mark. It is dirty politics, though.


----------



## Daniyel (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > I really doubt Netanyahu will gain Kahlon. Not after what he pulled...
> ...


Not sure about Liberman but certainly the orthodox parties and Bennet, including - pay attention - MERETZ - this is what I would do in his place, there is also the Arab List that never denied the Likud and are dying to finally doing something productive, and this is also based on their list, Bibi would most likely to adept at least one left wing party and the one I think most would be Meretz, but we have to wait for the final count since this is all over the edge.


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 17, 2015)

Osomir said:


> What would be inspirational would be basic civil and political rights for Palestinians.



That is a matter for the PA.  Israeli arabs/palestinians have rights like everyone else, more than they have in the PA or G.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

TemplarKormac said:


> Interesting, I'm also reading that there may have been a "fictitious party" formed to harm the Yachad. I don't know how fraud works in Israel, but isn't an attempt to mislead voters illegal?
> 
> Fictitious Party Meant to Harm Yachad - Inside Israel - News - Arutz Sheva



More on that:

There were allegations that Yachad and BZhutan  ballots were being hidden or destroyed in the Haredi and Arab sectors, with a side of violence. Holy smokes.

Haredi Arab Sectors Report Ballot Problems - Inside Israel - News - Arutz Sheva


----------



## Osomir (Mar 17, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Osomir said:
> 
> 
> > What would be inspirational would be basic civil and political rights for Palestinians.
> ...



Except the PA is not sovereign and thus cannot provide those rights while under occupation. If Israel wasn't occupying the West Bank then you would have a valid point, until then though it is rather dishonest.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Daniyel said:


> Not sure about Liberman



Liberman is refusing to take calls from either Herzog or Netanyahu, from reports.


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



Twice


----------



## Osomir (Mar 17, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



Three times.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Netanyahu has gained Bennett:

Bennett Netanyahu Agree to Cooperate - Inside Israel - News - Arutz Sheva


----------



## Meathead (Mar 17, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...


Sometimes  comments must be made on observations like these, and I quote Coyote, *Interesting - so who ever can finagle a majority through a coalition is the winner...must make for some strange bedmates at times.
*
Now, this is from a senior mod on a political forum. I find it absurd even that asked.


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > And what does that mean, PM Bibi is back in.
> ...



first to see who rivlin asks to try and form a government.


----------



## BullKurtz (Mar 17, 2015)

Seems the exit polls are saying Bibi's Likud party is either winning or is tied with the Labor party in today's national elections.   Barry's thugs pulled every Chicago trick in the book to unseat him, including funneling US taxpayer dollars into the opposition.  A Congressional investigation will surely show the WH tried to sandbag the Israeli leader and FAILED!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			










_20.37 The mood in Likud headquarters in the Tel Aviv Exhibition Grounds is jubilant in the aftermath of the publication of the exit polls. The audience is cheering, “Bibi, Bibi," writes Robert Tait.

That said, it is not certain at this point that Benjamin Netanyahu is necessarily going to be the next prime minister. Much will depend on Moshe Kahlon’s decision.

The initial response in the Labour Party headquarters was one of stunned silence, particularly in response to Channel Two’s exit poll, which showed the Likud with a slight lead._

_



_


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 17, 2015)

theDoctorisIn said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > How reliable is Channel 2 there? They have the Likud winning (unofficially) 28-27.
> ...



several media are already calling likud the victor


----------



## Osomir (Mar 17, 2015)

Meathead said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Meathead said:
> ...



Why would anyone (mods included) be expected to be that well versed in every topic related to politics let alone international affairs? We all have our areas.


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 17, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



back scratching


----------



## gallantwarrior (Mar 17, 2015)

Probably because nobody there can claim to be voting for someone who looks "just like them" without paying any attention to that person's convictions and views.  Even Arabs living in Israel know that they are protected by a strong government.  The stupid ones all moved to Palestine and voted for Hamas.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...



Can you provide links to that end?


----------



## Mac1958 (Mar 17, 2015)

.

Is everyone sure that last-minute pledge against a Palestinian state was such a great idea in the big picture?

.


----------



## Meathead (Mar 17, 2015)

Osomir said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...


Because I would think coalition governments would not be beyond the realm of knowledge of most posters on any political forum. It shouldn't be a "romper room" for the rank-and-file, let alone mods and senior mods.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Mar 17, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



Do not text and drive!  Arrive alive.  We will read you when you get to your work place.   Over and out!


----------



## Penelope (Mar 17, 2015)

Obama never did try to sabotage the election. Bibi doesn't not intimidate Pres. Obama.  If Bibi wins its by the skin of his teeth. He should realize that, that half the people didn't want him.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Mar 17, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > stats sounds like it works better than statin(mangled).
> ...


Better be none.  You're driving.  Remember?


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 17, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



Do you have any idea how many parties there are in the US?

Middle east countries have a wide spread that want to be represented.  Twenty plus religions and a few dozen political parties is not uncommon.
In the US, most people I know like a, b, c from party 1 and e, f, g from party 2 and d from yet another.  Total agreement of all points on a platform or of a candidate is rare.  I think most just pick the less of evils or close their eye cross their fingers and stick a pin to pick.


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Mar 17, 2015)

Meathead said:


> Osomir said:
> 
> 
> > Meathead said:
> ...


Nobody knows everything man. Lighten up there's nothing wrong with learning new things.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Mar 17, 2015)

Bibi interfered in our politics with congressional help, our senators interfered with Iran, and you are bitching BHO is kicking you in the balls?


----------



## Rocko (Mar 17, 2015)

The lefty butthurt is going to be epic on this one.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Mar 17, 2015)

Penelope said:


> Obama never did try to sabotage the election. Bibi doesn't not intimidate Pres. Obama.  If Bibi wins its by the skin of his teeth. He should realize that, that half the people didn't want him.


A little more than 7 of 10 don't want him.  He is less popular in Israel than our GOP senate is here.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

Meathead said:


> Osomir said:
> 
> 
> > Meathead said:
> ...



Since this is the "*US*Messageboard", and we don't have a Parliamentary government here in the US, and have never had a "coalition government", I would guess that a _majority_ of posters here don't fully understand how it works.


----------



## BullKurtz (Mar 17, 2015)

Mac1958 said:


> .
> 
> Is everyone sure that last-minute pledge against a Palestinian state was such a great idea in the big picture?
> 
> .



Yes, that swung the votes of the ultra-conservative groups to him.


----------



## August West (Mar 17, 2015)

Barry who? Manilow I presume. Goldwater is dead.


----------



## Meathead (Mar 17, 2015)

Missouri_Mike said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> > Osomir said:
> ...


I suppose some accept dumbing down better than others and feel less soiled by association.


----------



## BullKurtz (Mar 17, 2015)

Penelope said:


> Obama never did try to sabotage the election. Bibi doesn't not intimidate Pres. Obama.  If Bibi wins its by the skin of his teeth. He should realize that, that half the people didn't want him.



Baloney.....try to learn something for a change...

_The Congressional probe is looking into “funding” by OneVoice Movement – a Washington-based group that has received $350,000 in recent State Department grants, and until last November was headed by a veteran diplomat from the Clinton administrations.

A subsidiary of OneVoice is the Israel-based Victory 15 campaign, itself guided by top operatives of Obama’s White House runs, which seeks to “replace the government” of Israel._


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

There's already a thread on the Knesset election. I suggest you guys read it, I think you might not understand what's actually going on.

Likud's "victory" is far from secure.


----------



## 1stRambo (Mar 17, 2015)

*Yo, "Israel's Netanyahu declares victory in tight race"*
*
My Way News - Israel s Netanyahu declares victory in tight race

"GTP"


 *


----------



## boedicca (Mar 17, 2015)

JakeStarkey said:


> Bibi interfered in our politics with congressional help, our senators interfered with Iran, and you are bitching BHO is kicking you in the balls?




Nonsense.  Bibi did what a responsible leader does:  he acted to protect the national security of his country.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

*Threads Merged.*


----------



## Osomir (Mar 17, 2015)

Meathead said:


> Missouri_Mike said:
> 
> 
> > Meathead said:
> ...



Not knowing something doesn't make someone dumb. There are plenty of subjects that you are not well versed in too. Including political and international affairs related ones.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

*Let's stay on topic, guys.*


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > So....how does building a coalition work - is it the winner who has to try to build it or can any of the groups try to form coalitions to build a majority?
> ...


That sounds more fairer than our Electoral College.


----------



## BullKurtz (Mar 17, 2015)

theDoctorisIn said:


> There's already a thread on the Knesset election. I suggest you guys read it, I think you might not understand what's actually going on.
> 
> Likud's "victory" is far from secure.



Thanks Doc...once again you show your true colors.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

I'll repeat.

*Stay on topic. *

If you feel the need to rant about American knowledge of a Parliamentary system, start a thread on it.


----------



## BullKurtz (Mar 17, 2015)

theDoctorisIn said:


> There's already a thread on the Knesset election. I suggest you guys read it, I think you might not understand what's actually going on.
> 
> Likud's "victory" is far from secure.



Burns your ass that Obozo couldn't unseat Bibi eh?  Where is my OP?


----------



## 1stRambo (Mar 17, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> Photo source.​
> Israeli legislative election 2015 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> and, as reference:
> ...



Yo, its over, and the MAN BIBI WON!!!

"GTP"


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

TemplarKormac said:


> Daniyel Lipush
> 
> Is it just me or did the Yachad just hit 5 seats?



All of the exit polls I've seen have had them failing to meet the threshold.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

BullKurtz said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > There's already a thread on the Knesset election. I suggest you guys read it, I think you might not understand what's actually going on.
> ...



The 2015 Israeli legislative (Knesset) election thread


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Mar 17, 2015)

I am believing God that Bibi wins.  I believe it is the will of God for him to be victorious today.  In Jesus Name!


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

theDoctorisIn said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > Daniyel Lipush
> ...



Hmm, I think I got them confused with  Yisrael Beytenu. They have 5 seats, and looks like a candidate to ally with the Likud.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

IlarMeilyr said:


> All the usual USMB anti-Semites and the usual suspects in the "WHY DON'T YOU JUST DIE, ISRAEL?" crowd are salivating at the prospect that Obumbler may have succeeded in ousting Netanyahu.




*Uhhhm, that's not what this thread is about. You realize that, right?*


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 17, 2015)

Osomir said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Osomir said:
> ...



G and areas A and B were turned over to the the palestinians.  It is not the responsibility of Israel to give rights to people that are not Israeli.  They have their own pseudo government, though Abbas is trying to dissolve it.  If the WB is given back to Israel, those who want to be "palestinian" and not Israeli might have to leave.  Most of the palestinians in G would leave if they could.  The hope of a truly united palestinian government seems to have failed.  They can't be a welfare state dependent on the world for donations because they can't or won't meet the needs of a nation, develop a sustainable economy, etc.  It might well be that they will have to accept an Israeli state and apply for citizenship, dropping any chance of the palestinian state.  They become arab Israelis or find some other place to settle.  Or is there is to be a state of some kind, it will be vastly different from what they wanted.  Take what you are given or you get nothing.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Mar 17, 2015)

TemplarKormac said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...


What does that mean?


----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush said:


> The Likud Party: 27
> 
> The Zionist Union Party: 27
> 
> ...




*This means that 5 of the 15 parties on the ballot did not cross the 3.5% hurdle. Pretty much expected, I would think. Or?*


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Mar 17, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> IlarMeilyr said:
> 
> 
> > All the usual USMB anti-Semites and the usual suspects in the "WHY DON'T YOU JUST DIE, ISRAEL?" crowd are salivating at the prospect that Obumbler may have succeeded in ousting Netanyahu.
> ...


What are they saying now, Stat?


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Mar 17, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > The Likud Party: 27
> ...


What does that mean????


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Jeremiah said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > theDoctorisIn said:
> ...



Yisrael Beytenu is the party headed by Lieberman. They won 5 seats in the Knesset, but Liberman is refusing to talk to either Herzog or Netanyahu about a coalition.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

TemplarKormac said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...



That's Lieberman's party.

I would say they're more likely to side with Likud, sure. But it's not a given.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Mar 17, 2015)

Meathead said:


> I find it shocking that two parties which have little in common could form a coalition government. I know I am just a rank-and-file poster, but I am hoping some senior mod sage could instruct me on how this is possible. It would help me to understand the Israeli knesset process much better.
> 
> I apologize, but I am American and do not understand anything beyond our presidential system, and again, I am a simple poster and not a mod.


You should apologise to Coyote.  You sounded like a meathead.


----------



## BullKurtz (Mar 17, 2015)

Even this vile rag shows Likud leading or tied which is a WIN for Likud's coaltion:

Read em and weep, sucker!  Netanyahu declares victory in Israel exit polls show virtual tie - LA Times


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Mar 17, 2015)

theDoctorisIn said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > theDoctorisIn said:
> ...


Doc.  Do they have a winner or don't they?   What is the last report in?


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Mar 17, 2015)

BullKurtz said:


> Even this vile rag shows Likud leading or tied which is a WIN for Likud's coaltion:
> 
> Read em and weep, sucker!  Netanyahu declares victory in Israel exit polls show virtual tie - LA Times








*To God be the Glory!!!!!!!!!    THANK YOU! THANK YOU, JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  And please bless Bull Kurtz for announcing this wonderful news!  Amen!  *


----------



## SassyIrishLass (Mar 17, 2015)

Israel's Netanyahu declares victory in tight race

JERUSALEM (AP) — Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has declared victory after a tight national election appeared to give him the upper hand in forming the country's next coalition government.

In a statement released on Twitter, Netanyahu says that "against all odds" his Likud party and the nationalist camp secured a "great victory."

Initial exit polls showed Netanyahu's Likud Party deadlocked with the center-left Zionist Union.

But the results indicated that Netanyahu will have an easier time cobbling together a majority coalition with hard-line and religious allies.

Netanyahu said he had already begun to call potential partners.

My Way News - Israel s Netanyahu declares victory in tight race

Meanwhile.......


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

Jeremiah said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...



The official results won't be released until Thursday, I think - and after that, we'll have to see who can build a coalition. We won't know who will be PM for at least a few days.


----------



## Rocko (Mar 17, 2015)

Netanyahu on Twitter says won great victory in Israel s election - Yahoo News


----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



*At the end of the day, that party that has the most seats gets first crack at making a working coalition that brings the combined party-forces to 61.

Right now, the "Hochrechnungen" are still showing 27 / 27 for Likud / Zionist Union, so at the moment, both have equal chances at forming a coalition that will work.*


----------



## NYcarbineer (Mar 17, 2015)

So Netanyahu declares that a resolution of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is impossible as long as he has a say and people are happy about that?

Why?


----------



## Meathead (Mar 17, 2015)

Jeremiah said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> > I find it shocking that two parties which have little in common could form a coalition government. I know I am just a rank-and-file poster, but I am hoping some senior mod sage could instruct me on how this is possible. It would help me to understand the Israeli knesset process much better.
> ...


I am clearly ridiculing him so any apology you think would be due would be dripping with more sarcasm than would be appropriate.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

Coyote said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...



*Sounds like Kulanu is a better fit for the Zionist Union.*


----------



## Rocko (Mar 17, 2015)

theDoctorisIn said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > theDoctorisIn said:
> ...



All the pundits iv'e heard  have said its a victory for Bibi. Methinks you're in denial.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Mar 17, 2015)

theDoctorisIn said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > theDoctorisIn said:
> ...


* I do not receive that report, Doc.  Bibi won! It's settled.  And I am turning in now.  I'm exhausted from this thread!  Talk about aggravation!  Oy! Vey!  *


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 17, 2015)

Meathead said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Meathead said:
> ...


Coyote = Her


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

Rocko said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



You're welcome to believe whatever pundits you like, if it makes things simpler for you.

I'll stick with reality, though.


----------



## SassyIrishLass (Mar 17, 2015)

theDoctorisIn said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > theDoctorisIn said:
> ...



It's Bibi...AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Stuff it left loons....and Obama


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

Jeremiah said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



It's not "settled", in any sense of the word.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

Osomir said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Osomir said:
> ...




*This thread is not about the PA. It is about today's election. Pay attention and learn to concentrate on the topic at hand, otherwise, you are merely trolling.*


----------



## guno (Mar 17, 2015)

Jeremiah said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...




has nothing to do with the goyim


----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

Jeremiah said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



*I will remember that the next time I drive. This evening I was travelling with a train. .....*


----------



## BullKurtz (Mar 17, 2015)

And here's another source....drink HEARTY!  

Binyamin Netanyahu wins fourth term as PM according to exit polls


----------



## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



You're forgetting the round when he beat Peres.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

Jeremiah said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > teddyearp said:
> ...



*Nope. I was sitting in a comfortable train.*


----------



## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

theDoctorisIn said:


> There's already a thread on the Knesset election. I suggest you guys read it, I think you might not understand what's actually going on.
> 
> Likud's "victory" is far from secure.



It is a victory, in the sense that all polls predicted a rough defeat.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

Hossfly said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



Possibly. But their system also encourages lots of little spinter parties, which our EC discourages.


----------



## BullKurtz (Mar 17, 2015)

theDoctorisIn said:


> It's not "settled", in any sense of the word.



BULLSHIT.....go have a nice cry...it's over for Begala and his Rat cronies....

Oh and BTW, the Mossad will never allow an Israeli PM to sell out to HAMAS.


----------



## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > The Likud Party: 27
> ...



I would have liked Yachad to make it, just because Shas acted like gansters, abusing Yishai, threatening and trying to scare off voters.

I hate Shas. They're criminals. so much different than Torah Judaism.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

Jeremiah said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > IlarMeilyr said:
> ...


#


*Who?*


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > There's already a thread on the Knesset election. I suggest you guys read it, I think you might not understand what's actually going on.
> ...



That I can agree with. But I think that some of the posters in this thread think that Bibi has already been re-elected PM.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Looks like Lieberman will be joining Netanyahu:

"*11:15 P.M. *Lieberman on whether he will join a coalition headed by Netanyahu: "Why not? ... we should join the friends who worked hard and gave everything they could. We can't talk of defeat, it was a difficult journey."

ISRAEL ELECTION LIVE BLOG Exit polls Zionist Union and Likud neck and neck at 27 seats - Israel News Haaretz


----------



## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

TemplarKormac said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...



That only means Lieberman is stupid. Any true rightwinger would have swallowed the pride and do what's best for the national camp.

That's what Bennett will do.


----------



## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

TemplarKormac said:


> Looks like Lieberman will be joining Netanyahu:
> 
> "*11:15 P.M. *Lieberman on whether he will join a coalition headed by Netanyahu: "Why not? ... we should join the friends who worked hard and gave everything they could. We can't talk of defeat, it was a difficult journey."
> 
> ISRAEL ELECTION LIVE BLOG Exit polls Zionist Union and Likud neck and neck at 27 seats - Israel News Haaretz



I don't know where Haaretz sniffed that from, from what we hear, it's totally 180 from that.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

Jeremiah said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



*For a party to get seats in the Knesset, it must get at least 3.5% of the popular vote. 15 parties were on the ballot, but I currently see seating projections for 10 parties. Logically, therefore, 5 parties did not get to 3.5% of the popular vote and therefore will not be represented in the Knesset.*


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like Lieberman will be joining Netanyahu:
> ...



Lieberman I won t join left-led government - Israel election 2015 - Israel News Haaretz


----------



## Lipush (Mar 17, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



Yes, like Yachad and all sorts of tiny parties I've never even heard of, lol.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

theDoctorisIn said:


> Rocko said:
> 
> 
> > theDoctorisIn said:
> ...



*Voter turnout, according to the JP, was 71.3%, 4 points more than in 2013.

Right now, it is still Likud 27 / Zionist Camp 27 - a tie. But indeed, those are only exit polls.*







*Bibi is declaring victory way too early, and he should know better than this, for in one cycle his party actually had less deats, but Livni, who got first crack at coalition-building, failed, and so he, Netanyahu, got a crack at it and succeed in spite of the fact that Likud had less seats that Lipni that year.  So, based on this, Bibi should be making no assumptions at all.  The arab party is sitting there with about 13 seats..... third largest party in the Knesset.... no sure if anyone wants to make a coalition with them, but it is a mathematical possibility.*


----------



## Synthaholic (Mar 17, 2015)

Coyote said:


> What are the important domestic issues playing out in this election?


Property taxes and pocketbook issues.  On the CBS Evening News last night they were talking to a young couple in Israel who were saying that if Bibi wins they will likely move out of Israel, as they can no longer afford their apartment, and that Bibi is only concerned with National Security.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

Are you sure about the Arab List have 17? Everything I'm reading says 13.


----------



## BullKurtz (Mar 17, 2015)

theDoctorisIn said:


> That I can agree with. But I think that some of the posters in this thread think that Bibi has already been re-elected PM.



He has according to the exit polls, polls Barry's henchman can't rig or throw votes in the river or a car trunk or count when the voter's name is D.Duck or Bullwinkle or John Wilkes Booth....Cons win FAIR elections and they did again today.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

theDoctorisIn said:


> Are you sure about the Arab List have 17? Everything I'm reading says 13.




*Excuse me, that was a typo and I have corrected it.*


----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

*So, going back full circle to a quote from the OP:*



Statistikhengst said:


> When the polls close at 22:00, Israeli news is likely to start publishing preliminary results. *Be very careful of interpreting prelims. There will still be votes to be counted. And in terms of a possibly very thin margin for one "list" or the other, the actual coalition-building that ensues may take some days.*
> 
> The threshhold for any party to get into the Knesset is 3.25% of the total national vote. This means that the little parties have to hoof-it to get to *3.25%*, otherwise, they fall out of the Knesset seat statistic.




*Yes, those words were prophetic...*


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

BullKurtz said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > That I can agree with. But I think that some of the posters in this thread think that Bibi has already been re-elected PM.
> ...



No, he hasn't. According to exit polls, Likud has won 27 or 28 seats.

Bibi has to form a 61+ seat coalition to hold on as PM.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

BullKurtz said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > That I can agree with. But I think that some of the posters in this thread think that Bibi has already been re-elected PM.
> ...




*You do understand that exit polls are not the actual votes, right? For if the 2004 US Presidential election would have been decided based on exit polls, John Kerry would have won. You do realize this, right?*


----------



## SassyIrishLass (Mar 17, 2015)

theDoctorisIn said:


> BullKurtz said:
> 
> 
> > theDoctorisIn said:
> ...



Strange, every source in Israel is saying Bibi has won while every left loon site in the US is saying "It's too close to call!!!!!" 

Sounds like a sad case of the denials


----------



## BullKurtz (Mar 17, 2015)

theDoctorisIn said:


> No, he hasn't. According to exit polls, Likud has won 27 or 28 seats.
> 
> Bibi has to form a 61+ seat coalition to hold on as PM.



With all the expertise in Israeli politics you've gathered in your 30 years of living, I'd think you'd know a tie or narrow loss goes to Bibi because the majority of minor parties are far right-wing groups  This is why he told the press there would be no deal with HAMAS...that cemented his coalition.


----------



## tinydancer (Mar 17, 2015)

Awesome voter turnout. We should really be ashamed of ourselves over here that so many refuse to participate in the greatest show of love for country and appreciation of our citizenship. 

Pity.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

BullKurtz said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > No, he hasn't. According to exit polls, Likud has won 27 or 28 seats.
> ...



Channel 10's exit polls:

Zionist Union with 27.
Likud with 27.
Joint Arab List with 13., 
Yesh Atid with 11.
Bayit Yehudi with 8.
Kulanu with 10.
Shas with 7.
United Torah Judaism with 7. 
Meretz with 5.
Yisrael Beytenu with 5.
Yahad failing to pass the electoral threshold.

Show me how you think Likud gets to 61.


----------



## BullKurtz (Mar 17, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> *You do understand that exit polls are not the actual votes, right? For if the 2004 US Presidential election would have been decided based on exit polls, John Kerry would have won. You do realize this, right?*



Oh I understand all kinds of things...especially about you and your past behavior elsewhere.  As to politics here or in Israel you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground.


----------



## SassyIrishLass (Mar 17, 2015)

tinydancer said:


> Awesome voter turnout. We should really be ashamed of ourselves over here that so many refuse to participate in the greatest show of love for country and appreciation of our citizenship.
> 
> Pity.



Maybe if we had an Iran next door, enemies surrounding us and our survival depended on strong leadership we would have a larger turnout


----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

SassyIrishLass said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > BullKurtz said:
> ...




*No, it is called factual reality*.

Exit polls put Likud and Zionist Union neck and neck Yahad below electoral threshold - Israel election 2015 - Israel News Haaretz



> *Counting* of the ballots *began immediately* after the polls closed at 10 P.M. *and will continue throughout the night.* *Provisional results are expected to be available early Wednesday morning,* though it could take until Friday until official results are published.



*So, what part of "count the votes first" do you not understand?*


----------



## BullKurtz (Mar 17, 2015)

theDoctorisIn said:


> Channel 10's exit polls:
> 
> Zionist Union with 27.
> Likud with 27.
> ...



Sorry, you've shown yourself be a leftist hack and I don't believe a number or word you say.


----------



## SassyIrishLass (Mar 17, 2015)

It's Bibi....

Polling stations opened at 7 a.m. on Tuesday and Israeli citizens headed for the ballots to vote for Israel’s 20th Knesset. Polls from the end of last week had left options open for a tight race. The TV exit polls were published at 10 p.m., as polling stations closed, after which official results began to roll in. The official final results won’t be publicized until Thursday.

Netanyahu, vying for the role for his fourth time (third consecutively), had made a last-ditch attempt over the past days to win back voters mainly from the right-wing bloc, vowing Monday night to block a Palestinian state should he remain in office.

Unlike years past, analysts had said the race between Likud and Zionist Union, the two leading factions, was too close to call with confidence, but the exit polls showed Netanyahu clearly better placed to build the next coalition.

The Times of Israel is bringing you updates throughout Tuesday and into Wednesday morning.

Netanyahu declares victory but Herzog in no hurry to concede The Times of Israel


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Channel 1 is claiming that Yachad will pass the threshold. Interesting.


----------



## Preacher (Mar 17, 2015)

Hope Zionist Union can pull it off. For a more peaceful Israel and ME in general. Netanyahu reminds me of a rogue general that thinks he is above everyone and can do what he wants. That power has gone to his head.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

BullKurtz said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > Channel 10's exit polls:
> ...



As I've already said, I could not possibly give less of shit about what you "believe". Whatever makes you feel better.


----------



## SassyIrishLass (Mar 17, 2015)

theDoctorisIn said:


> BullKurtz said:
> 
> 
> > theDoctorisIn said:
> ...



You always get angry when someone rejects you, that would make for a tough life


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Channel 1:


Likud 27 MKs

Labor 26

Yesh Atid 11

Kulanu 9

Joint Arab List 11

Jewish Home 9

UTJ 6

Shas 7

Meretz 5

Yisrael Beytenu 5

*Yachad 4*

If the Yachad result is true, that will hurt Herzog. Badly.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

theDoctorisIn said:


> BullKurtz said:
> 
> 
> > theDoctorisIn said:
> ...



I can show you how they could get to 70:

Likud, UTJ, Shas, Yisrael Beytenu, Jewish Home, Yachad and Kulanu

(Channels 2 and 10 give Jewish Home only 8 MKs, and give the Joint Arab List 13 MKs.)

Either way, Likud could easily pass 61 if they had these parties align with them.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

Lipush said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...




*Gam yachad, gam yachad....

oh wait, where's the Afikomen?!?!?!?*


----------



## JakeStarkey (Mar 17, 2015)

Israel election results Likud and Zionist Union neck and neck with 27 seats in exit polls - live - Telegraph

Some of you who really don't understand need to read the above.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

*President Rivlin is calling for a Unity Government (aka Grand Coalition).*


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 17, 2015)

Osomir said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



96-99
09-15

You are talking about terms as PM


----------



## JakeStarkey (Mar 17, 2015)

JakeStarkey said:


> Kulanu will be the problem, TK, I think.
> 
> But if I were betting, I think Bibi will get his coalition with some major concessions.



Rivlin is opening the door for just that.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

TemplarKormac said:


> Channel 1 is claiming that Yachad will pass the threshold. Interesting.



*It is really best to wait until the votes are actually counted.*


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

TemplarKormac said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > BullKurtz said:
> ...



As I've been saying this whole thread, it's gonna come down to Kulanu.


----------



## Jroc (Mar 17, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> *President Rivlin is calling for a Unity Government (aka Grand Coalition).*




LOL...Bibi will form the government "Hope and change" looses in Israel


----------



## tinydancer (Mar 17, 2015)

I'm on a live feed at the Guardian and this just in....

5m ago22:23

Adjusted polls now suggest that the conservative Yahad party may have enough votes to make it in the Knesset – crossing the minimum threshold to win four Knesset seats (3.25% of the electorate).

If Yahad wins four seats, Netanyahu has a much easier path to building a conservative government.

— Sheera Frenkel (@sheeraf) March 17, 2015
This is how close the Israeli elections are: new poll shows Yishai's party just getting in w/ 3 seats, enough to ensure Netanyahu is PM.

Israel elections Netanyahu declares great victory as exit polls show tie with Herzog live updates World news The Guardian


----------



## Penelope (Mar 17, 2015)

Jroc said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > *President Rivlin is calling for a Unity Government (aka Grand Coalition).*
> ...



Very sad thought. Very sad indeed.


----------



## BullKurtz (Mar 17, 2015)

Barry about to throw in the towel...claims "he can work with whoever wins"...yeah right....work with THIS  

Netanyahu declares victory but Herzog in no hurry to concede The Times of Israel


----------



## guno (Mar 17, 2015)

BullKurtz said:


> Barry about to throw in the towel...claims "he can work with whoever wins"...yeah right....work with THIS
> 
> Netanyahu declares victory but Herzog in no hurry to concede The Times of Israel




you dumb goy the people of Israel didn't vote on Obama


----------



## Jroc (Mar 17, 2015)

Netanyhau declears victory


BullKurtz said:


> Barry about to throw in the towel...claims "he can work with whoever wins"...yeah right....work with THIS
> 
> Netanyahu declares victory but Herzog in no hurry to concede The Times of Israel




Netanyahu will form the government. let these leftist post the vote totals. it's a good day in Israel


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 17, 2015)

theDoctorisIn said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > Daniyel Lipush
> ...



Israeli election close Netanyahu calls strong showing victory 
Israel elections Netanyahu declares great victory as exit polls show tie with Herzog live updates World news The Guardian
Palestinians Netanyahu s win forces us to intensify diplomatic offensive - Israel News Ynetnews

It is still up to Rivlin


----------



## Jroc (Mar 17, 2015)

guno said:


> BullKurtz said:
> 
> 
> > Barry about to throw in the towel...claims "he can work with whoever wins"...yeah right....work with THIS
> ...



Shut up you moron the leftist lost. Obama also lost


----------



## tinydancer (Mar 17, 2015)

guno said:


> BullKurtz said:
> 
> 
> > Barry about to throw in the towel...claims "he can work with whoever wins"...yeah right....work with THIS
> ...



Bullshit. The analyst I just heard from JPost said flat out the increase in the voter turnout was in response to foreign nations America AND Europe interfering in the Israeli election process.


----------



## Jroc (Mar 17, 2015)

*Netanyahu declares victory in Israeli election upset*









> TEL AVIV—Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu celebrated “a great victory” for himself and his Likud Party shortly after early exit polls were released following Tuesday’s election.
> 
> “Against all odds, a great victory for the Likud, for the nationalist camp led by the Likud, and for the people of Israel,” Netanyahu said in a statement on his Facebook page.
> 
> ...






BIBI FOREVER Washington Free Beacon


----------



## tinydancer (Mar 17, 2015)

guno said:


> BullKurtz said:
> 
> 
> > Barry about to throw in the towel...claims "he can work with whoever wins"...yeah right....work with THIS
> ...



Bullshit. The analyst I just heard from JPost said flat out the increase in the voter turnout was in response to foreign nations America AND Europe interfering in the Israeli election process.

And it drove the right.


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 17, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



54 seats combined as both are right wing parties.  7 more seats and he has a coalition.  There are two other parties likely to join.


----------



## Jroc (Mar 17, 2015)

tinydancer said:


> guno said:
> 
> 
> > BullKurtz said:
> ...


Obama crony's bused in Arabs to vote


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



ZU is not a "right-wing" party. They're not going to ally with Bibi, their entire purpose in existing is to defeat him.

It's Labor and Hatnuah.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

And now it is being reconfirmed that Yachad has failed to meet the threshold.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

Channel 1's updated polls now say that Yahad had not crossed the threshold.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

That was well-timed.


----------



## Jroc (Mar 17, 2015)

Penelope said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > tinydancer said:
> ...




It's a good day


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Why the Israeli election results are great news for Netanyahu in one chart - Vox

Ugh, I can't believe I'm citing Vox... bleh


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Okay, there are conflicting reports out there about the Yachad, this one saying that Channels 1, 10, and 20 are indicating it will pass the threshold:

Eli Yishai Is In with 4 MKs Say Two Polls - Inside Israel - News - Arutz Sheva

The votes of the IDF soldiers have yet to be counted yet however, so there is a possibility that Yachad could pull it out of the fire.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Mar 17, 2015)

Kulanu will demand certain ministerial portfolios and a right to check some of Bibi's adventurism in return for giving him the government.

Let's see what Bibi says in return.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

*And again, I strongly recommend, wait until the actual votes are counted. It can be that the aggregate polling last week was actually spot on. You would think that after the 2000 US presidential election, we Americans would understand that in a close election, wait until every vote is counted.*


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Take note that Yachad entering the Knesset is critical to the Likud's hopes of getting to 61 seats.


----------



## Jroc (Mar 17, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> *And again, I strongly recommend, wait until the actual votes are counted. It can be that the aggregate polling last week was actually spot on. You would think that after the 2000 US presidential election, we Americans would understand that in a close election, wait until every vote is counted.*


this is Israel not the U.S. Mr "election scholar" The right runs the elections in Israel. no shenanigans by the leftist like in the United states. This is a good day


----------



## BullKurtz (Mar 17, 2015)

Wednesday
_12:31 a.m. Officials close to President Reuven Rivlin told Channel 1 late Tuesday that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will form the next coalition if Kulanu head Moshe Kahlon offers his endorsement of the incumbent._

Race to the Knesset Follow the latest Election Day updates - Israel Elections - Jerusalem Post


----------



## JakeStarkey (Mar 17, 2015)

Bibi has to conciliate his coalition, Mr J-Totalitarian-Roc, and we don't know that he has one, and if he does, what the other parties will demand.  I wonder what Moshe Kahlon is going to want.


----------



## tinydancer (Mar 17, 2015)

This is funny. I wish I could see him waving 

6.56pm 22:56

Netanyahu is now taking the stage at the Likud headquarters for his own post-election speech.

— joshmitnick (@joshmitnick) March 17, 2015
BIBI To address likudniks now pic.twitter.com/oYfQehEFQ1

— Lahav Harkov (@LahavHarkov) March 17, 2015
Netanyahu is literally walking across the stage and waving like Miss America

Israel elections Netanyahu hails great victory as Herzog refuses to concede defeat live updates World news The Guardian


----------



## JakeStarkey (Mar 17, 2015)

Bibi, Jroc, if he is able to form another government, will be on a much tighter leash.


----------



## MACAULAY (Mar 17, 2015)

Its been interesting to watch and learn about Israeli elections.  It looks like it now moves the the stage where Jews everywhere are most comfortable---"Lets Make a Deal."  George Will just noted that an old Jewish saying is: Two Jews, three factions.

But, it is also obvious that Netanyahu has come out of this thing much better of than Pinheads were calling for just last week.  And that they are sad in the White House tonight.  Their tampering appears to have failed.

And this is likely linked to the most interesting thing I learned today....which is that Israelis of almost every persuasion, Likud, Labor, all the others...much as they might fight amounst themselves...mainly agree in distrusting and, in fact, loathing Barak Obama.  


.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

*Stay on topic, no trolling. This is Zone 2.*


----------



## Jroc (Mar 17, 2015)

JakeStarkey said:


> Bibi, Jroc, if he is able to form another government, will be on a much tighter leash.




LOL...He'll have a stronger coalition than before. You're funny fake


----------



## BullKurtz (Mar 17, 2015)

Our leftist rubes who don't even know why they now hate Israel should know _Kulanu _is a right-wing party/coalition and will side with Bibi once they have their earmarks lined up.   It's all over but the kvetching folks.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

BullKurtz said:


> Our leftist rubes who don't even know why they now hate Israel should know _Kulanu _is a right-wing party/coalition and will side with Bibi once they have their earmarks lined up.   It's all over but the kvetching folks.



Kulanu is decidedly center, and not "right wing". It's possible that Kahlon will side with Bibi, but far from given. They're not exactly on great terms.


----------



## Jroc (Mar 17, 2015)

BullKurtz said:


> Our leftist rubes who don't even know why they now hate Israel should know _Kulanu _is a right-wing party/coalition and will side with Bibi once they have their earmarks lined up.   It's all over but the kvetching folks.



The leftist have no way to form a government


----------



## Jroc (Mar 17, 2015)

theDoctorisIn said:


> BullKurtz said:
> 
> 
> > Our leftist rubes who don't even know why they now hate Israel should know _Kulanu _is a right-wing party/coalition and will side with Bibi once they have their earmarks lined up.   It's all over but the kvetching folks.
> ...




The leftist courted the Arab vote, as a result they lost some centrist support. Netanyahu forms the government


----------



## Jroc (Mar 17, 2015)

Well.... I'll let you leftist squirm a while. I'm heading to the gym a happy guy today. Be back later for more post election fun


----------



## skye (Mar 17, 2015)

Things are looking good!!!!!!!  verrrry good!!!!!!!Bibi yay!!!!


----------



## JakeStarkey (Mar 17, 2015)

Kahlon will require certain ministerial posts and will have a veto on Bibi's adventurism.

No more wild rides to nowhere.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2015)

*First full vote count (without provisionals) first tomorrow. May take until Friday before Shabbat begins to give the final total. I will follow the totals as they come out.*


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 17, 2015)

tinydancer said:


> Awesome voter turnout. We should really be ashamed of ourselves over here that so many refuse to participate in the greatest show of love for country and appreciation of our citizenship.
> 
> Pity.


It's sad that the most loyal voters are dead Democrats. They never skip a vote.


----------



## Coyote (Mar 17, 2015)

Meathead said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Meathead said:
> ...



I believe you think you are being somewhat witty but I have no idea what you are talking about


----------



## Coyote (Mar 17, 2015)

Meathead said:


> Osomir said:
> 
> 
> > Meathead said:
> ...



This forum includes many topics beyond Politics.   It is a "romper room" for the rank-and-file.  After all, here you are.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

So far Likud is taking a wide lead with 30% of the vote counted:


Arsen Ostrovsky @Ostrov_A
With 1,827,707 votes now counted in #IsraelElections, the #Likud is cont' to open up gap with @ZionistUnion, 24.72% to 18.91%. #IsraelEX


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

UPDATE: 


Avi Mayer @AviMayer
2,099,428 votes counted: Likud 24.67%, Zionist Union 18.82%, Yesh Atid 8.75%, Joint List 8.3%, Kulanu 7.63%, Jewish Home 6.27%. #IsraElex


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Looks to me like there's a beatdown in progress.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Likud still maintaining a 5.43% lead:


Avi Mayer @AviMayer
2,426,473 votes counted: Likud 24.46%, Zionist Union 19.03%, Yesh Atid 8.85%, Joint List 8.39%, Kulanu 7.62%, Jewish Home 6.27%. #IsraElex


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

In a complete departure from the exit polling, the Likud (if these vote totals hold) is predicted to grab 29 or 30 seats in the Knesset.


Noah Pollak @NoahPollak
If current numbers hold (57% counted), Likud will have 29-30 seats, Herzog 22-23. Not even close to what polls suggested.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

The silence is deafening.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Likud continues to maintain strong lead:


Avi Mayer @AviMayer
2,586,842 votes counted: Likud 24.36%, Zionist Union 19.06%, Yesh Atid 8.85%, Joint List 8.33%, Kulanu 7.57%, Jewish Home 6.39%. #IsraElex


----------



## Coyote (Mar 17, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> *President Rivlin is calling for a Unity Government (aka Grand Coalition).*



What would that mean exactly?


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Likud coming down the home stretch with a wide lead over ZU:


Avi Mayer @AviMayer
2,784,847 votes counted: Likud 24.29%, Zionist Union 19.13%, Yesh Atid 8.91%, Joint List 8.43%, Kulanu 7.59%, Jewish Home 6.39%. #IsraElex


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

So quiet now


----------



## Coyote (Mar 17, 2015)

Bedtime


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

Here's the official results page:

http://votes20.gov.il

It's in Hebrew, but I think everyone can figure it out. (Note: using Google translate fucks up the numbers)


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Bedtime



Oh yeah, it is late in Israel. That or all the Likudniks are partying...


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

theDoctorisIn said:


> Here's the official results page:
> 
> http://votes20.gov.il
> 
> It's in Hebrew, but I think everyone can figure it out. (Note: using Google translate fucks up the numbers)



I had that up on my browser earlier, spent hours trying to find it. Thanks.


----------



## MACAULAY (Mar 17, 2015)

The lesson seems to be the same as we got here in the USA in the 11/2014 Elections.

*If you are tied to Barak Obama---you lose.  *

But, I need to be sure and keep this on the very narrow topic deemed appropriate by the moderators which seems to be that Netanyahu is still not the P.M again...not yet--he still has to put together a majority coalition..and I certainly agree...plus it gives Obama & his gang of Chicago mobsters the chance to use their influence, maybe spread around some USA Taxpayer money...it is the Chicago Way...and buy their man into power.

But, it won't work. 

Israel will abuse the Chicago political interlopers, and treat them with the same contempt, that Russia and Iran do.


----------



## Coyote (Mar 17, 2015)

A lot of people seem to be making this election out to be about Obama.  That's pretty hilarious.  Do Israeli voters go to the polls thinking hmmm....this candidate is too close to Obama, I'm not voting for him?


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 17, 2015)

Coyote said:


> A lot of people seem to be making this election out to be about Obama.  That's pretty hilarious.  Do Israeli voters go to the polls thinking hmmm....this candidate is too close to Obama, I'm not voting for him?


Say goodnight, Gracie.


----------



## Coyote (Mar 17, 2015)

Hossfly said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > A lot of people seem to be making this election out to be about Obama.  That's pretty hilarious.  Do Israeli voters go to the polls thinking hmmm....this candidate is too close to Obama, I'm not voting for him?
> ...



pfffft.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

theDoctorisIn said:


> It's in Hebrew, but I think everyone can figure it out. (Note: using Google translate fucks up the numbers)



Using Chrome auto-translate seems to work just fine, but that's just me.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Lead for Likud narrowing, Arab List overtakes Yesh Atid:


Avi Mayer @AviMayer
3,571,069 votes counted: Likud 23.73%, Zionist Union 19.06%, Joint List 9.63%, Yesh Atid 8.92%, Kulanu 7.53%, Jewish Home 6.40%. #IsraElex


----------



## MACAULAY (Mar 17, 2015)

Lot of moderators seem to have their jimmies rustled over how it came out.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Likud now expands lead, ZU falling behind, dropping under 19%:

Avi Mayer @AviMayer
3,745,369 votes counted: Likud 23.56%, Zionist Union 18.91%, Joint List 10.13%, Yesh Atid 8.87%, Kulanu 7.49%, Jewish Home 6.37%. #IsraElex


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

As an aside, the Yachad did not pass the threshold.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Current seat projections:


i24news_EN ✔ @i24news_EN
#i24elections: With 75% of the votes counted: Likud 31, Zionist Union 24, Yesh Atid 11, Joint Arab List 11, Kulanu 9 http://i24ne.ws/Kt3Rt


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Likud continues to hold lead:


Avi Mayer @AviMayer
3,827,545 votes counted: Likud 23.46%, Zionist Union 18.79%, Joint List 10.51%, Yesh Atid 8.82%, Kulanu 7.47%, Jewish Home 6.35%. #IsraElex


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 17, 2015)

Coyote said:


> A lot of people seem to be making this election out to be about Obama.  That's pretty hilarious.  Do Israeli voters go to the polls thinking hmmm....this candidate is too close to Obama, I'm not voting for him?



But they would go to the polls to think, how much is Obama going to risk the security of Israel in some agreement with Iran or lack of conviction against terrorists and radicals, and how can we compensate for it.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Mar 17, 2015)

TemplarKormac said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > It's in Hebrew, but I think everyone can figure it out. (Note: using Google translate fucks up the numbers)
> ...



For some reason, the translator in Chrome for me made the actual vote totals get messed up. If it works for you, cool.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Looks like to me the Arab List is hurting the ZU.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

theDoctorisIn said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > theDoctorisIn said:
> ...



But then again, you were right. Switching between original and translated works...


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Likud appears to have won with a wide lead, projected to have 7 seat lead on the Zionist Union:


*Avi Mayer* @AviMayer · 47s47 seconds ago
~91.3% of votes cast in Israel's election have now been tallied. Likud leads with 23.45%, followed by Zionist Union with 18.82%. #IsraElex


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Israeli media outlets claiming victory for Likud/Netanyahu:


*Avi Mayer* @AviMayer · 34s34 seconds ago
Channel 10: "Sweeping Victory for Netanyahu." Walla News: "Large Win for Likud." Ynet: "Nighttime Drama" #IsraElex


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Likud keeps lead, will more than likely win election:


*Avi Mayer* @AviMayer · 2m2 minutes ago
3,907,643 votes counted: Likud 23.38%, Zionist Union 18.78%, Joint List 10.76%, Yesh Atid 8.81%, Kulanu 7.45%, Jewish Home 6.37%. #IsraElex


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

With 41,000 votes left to count, Likud wins:

3,961,334 votes counted: Likud 23.29%, Zionist Union 18.77%, Joint List 10.89%, Yesh Atid 8.79%, Kulanu 7.42%, Jewish Home 6.42%. #IsraElex


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Even more headlines:


Avi Mayer @AviMayer
Channel 2: "Big Win for Netanyahu" Israel Radio: "Likud Wins Election with Crushing Victory" Army Radio: "Likud Leads Big Time" #IsraElex


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Likud loses one seat to Arab List, but it is all over now.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

Final seat projections:

Avi Mayer @AviMayer
Knesset seats based on 95% of votes: Likud 29, Zionist Union 24, Joint List 14, Yesh Atid 11, Kulanu 10, Jewish Home 8, Shas 7. (@Nehemia_G) 

(cont.) Israel Beitenu 6, United Torah Judaism 6, Meretz 5, Yachad 0.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Mar 17, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > A lot of people seem to be making this election out to be about Obama.  That's pretty hilarious.  Do Israeli voters go to the polls thinking hmmm....this candidate is too close to Obama, I'm not voting for him?
> ...



That's your mere opinion, nothing more.  Give us something substantive.


----------



## Jroc (Mar 17, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > *President Rivlin is calling for a Unity Government (aka Grand Coalition).*
> ...


no need to worry about Likud forms the government Stat's wet dreams not withstanding


----------



## JakeStarkey (Mar 17, 2015)

Two seats more than projected for Bibi's gang.  

Going to Kulanu now more than ever that Yachad failed miserably.

Bibi will be PM, and Kulanu will rein in some of his adventurism.


----------



## Jroc (Mar 17, 2015)

Coyote said:


> A lot of people seem to be making this election out to be about Obama.  That's pretty hilarious.  Do Israeli voters go to the polls thinking hmmm....this candidate is too close to Obama, I'm not voting for him?




Obama made it partially about Obama


----------



## Jroc (Mar 17, 2015)

JakeStarkey said:


> Two seats more than projected for Bibi's gang.
> 
> Going to Kulanu now more than ever that Yachad failed miserably.
> 
> Bibi will be PM, and Kulanu will rein in some of his adventurism.



LOL


----------



## Jroc (Mar 17, 2015)

TemplarKormac said:


> Likud loses one seat to Arab List, but it is all over now.




It's been over. the drama was over at 6:00 pm


----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 17, 2015)

TemplarKormac said:


> Final seat projections:
> 
> Avi Mayer @AviMayer
> Knesset seats based on 95% of votes: Likud 29, Zionist Union 24, Joint List 14, Yesh Atid 11, Kulanu 10, Jewish Home 8, Shas 7. (@Nehemia_G)
> ...


Interesting. What would a coalition look like?


----------



## theliq (Mar 17, 2015)

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Statistikhengst said:
> ...


Dreadful Result for the Palestinians and the World including Israel....As the Mad-Bastards remain in Power........and as Israel hurtles towards being a Banana Republic..steven


----------



## JakeStarkey (Mar 17, 2015)

Nah, Bibi is not the end of the world, and once our far right demonizes itself in the heads of most mainstream Americans.  Buncha idiots.  Let's see what Kalanu holds out for.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

P F Tinmore said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > Final seat projections:
> ...



Possibly 66 seats for Likud:

Likud: 29
Yisrael Beiteinu: 6
Jewish Home: 8
Shas: 7
UTJ: 6
Kulanu: 10


----------



## Jroc (Mar 17, 2015)

JakeStarkey said:


> Nah, Bibi is not the end of the world, and once our far right demonizes itself in the heads of most mainstream Americans.  Buncha idiots.  Let's see what Kalanu holds out for.




LOL


----------



## JakeStarkey (Mar 17, 2015)




----------



## Jroc (Mar 17, 2015)

....

*With Ballots Counted, Netanyahu Scores Dramatic, Decisive Victory in Israeli Elections*



> With almost all the ballots counted for Israel’s general election held today, the ruling Likud party of Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu has scored a dramatic and decisive victory over the rival Zionist Union party
> 
> 99% of votes have been counted from a total of 4,223,057 and Likud is in first place with 23.29 percent. Zionist Union is trailing far behind in second place with 18.76 percent, almost 5 percentage points behind Likud.
> 
> ...


_.

With Ballots Counted Netanyahu Scores Dramatic Decisive Victory in Israeli Elections Jewish Israel News Algemeiner.com

_


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

UPDATE Likud regains one seat


Steve Linde @stevelinde
With 99% of votes in, Likud 30, Zionist Union 24, Joint List 14, Yesh Atid 11, Kulanu 10, Bennett 8, Shas 7, Liberman 6, UTJ 6, Meretz 4


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 17, 2015)

TemplarKormac said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...



Make that 67....


----------



## theliq (Mar 18, 2015)

Jroc said:


> ....
> 
> *With Ballots Counted, Netanyahu Scores Dramatic, Decisive Victory in Israeli Elections*
> 
> ...


23.29% is not decisive at all.......all that means is 76.71% of Israelis don't want Likud or Not and Yarhoo at all....let the horse trading begin,I wonder who the Palestinian Arab parties(who have done exceptionally well) will support........this result is NOT yet finalized at all......anyhow 76.71 into 23.29 don't go.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 18, 2015)

UPDATE

Once again Likud loses that one seat. 

Final tally is 29 to 24.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 18, 2015)

theliq said:


> all that means is 76.71% of Israelis don't want Likud or Not and Yarhoo at all



You really don't understand how Israeli elections or politics work do you?


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 18, 2015)

The Yachad fell just 12,000 votes short of passing the threshold.


----------



## theliq (Mar 18, 2015)

TemplarKormac said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > all that means is 76.71% of Israelis don't want Likud or Not and Yarhoo at all
> ...


Elections No Way......Politics Yes...steve........if this sort of figure was cast in Australia.....then Likud would never be in power.....just sayin but then therein lies the difference between real Democracy......and the Banana Republic of Israel but then Australia are far more sophisticated,modern and forward thinking................unlike Medieval Israel.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 18, 2015)




----------



## theliq (Mar 18, 2015)

TemplarKormac said:


> The Yachad fell just 12,000 votes short of passing the threshold.


Didn't the Palestinian parties do well...........Templar......considering...steve


----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 18, 2015)




----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 18, 2015)

*Bibi is now in the better position to form a coalition. He outperformed the final week of polling and also the exit polls. We should note that he also outperformed polling from institutes that are generally very Likud-friendly.*


----------



## theliq (Mar 18, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> View attachment 38070


Stats are the seats allocated by the number of votes....proportional representation or by districts/seats won ???????excuse my ignorance......would you have the statistics of  votes for each party..steve


----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 18, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > *President Rivlin is calling for a Unity Government (aka Grand Coalition).*
> ...



*A grand coalition is where the two major parties are forced to combined in order to get to a ruling coalition. Now that Likud has done better than expected, it looks like that will not be necessary. Germany had a Grand Coalition from 2005-2009 and has one now as well.*


----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 18, 2015)

theliq said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > View attachment 38070
> ...




*Proportional representation in the Knesset for all parties who make it over 3.25% of the national popular vote. Right now, Likud is at 23.26% of the entire national popular vote. 23.26% of 120 Knesset seats would technically be 28 seats, but because of the little bitty parties that didn't make it into the Knesset because they did not pass the 3.25% hurdle, then the votes of those who did are recalculated and so this is why Likud actually gets 29 seats. 96% of all votes are counted. I don't know if the 4% remaning also includes provisional ballots or not, but even so, this seat projection could change again.*


----------



## Lipush (Mar 18, 2015)




----------



## gtopa1 (Mar 18, 2015)

theliq said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



Tell me the primary vote of Labour in the Qld election just gone? What sort of dill are you??

Greg


----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 18, 2015)

gtopa1 said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...




As in, pickle??


----------



## theliq (Mar 18, 2015)

theliq said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > View attachment 38070
> ...


Got them,


----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 18, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> View attachment 38071




*Apparently, there really are a number of votes to count. But that is unlikely to diminish Bibi's lead over the ZU.

The site states 68.37% voter turnout from 5,881,696 eligible voters, which makes for 4,017,235 votes cast, a historic record for Eretz Yisrael! If 4% of votes remain to be counted, then that comes to 160,700 votes or so.

However, when you add up the totals of all the parties that made it into the Knesset, currently, we are at: 3,440,316 votes. Let's assume for fun that all of those votes yet to be counted will go to parties that made it into the Knesset - just as an exercise, nothing more.

4,017,235 -160,700 - 3,440,316 = 416,219

This means that the five small parties that did not make it into the Knesset got around 416,216 votes, or 10.36% combined, a perfect 5 way average would be 2.07% per splitter party, which sounds about right. That of course does not include any ballots that may be invalidated for any party.  I assume that Yachad was just below 3.25%,  perhaps another party as well, and so the remaining 3 parties were probably decisively under 2%, but this means in clear-text that the wishes of 10% of those who voted yesterday will not be fullfilled. That is, however, the system, which is supposed to be a deterrence to miniscule parties.


Just for fun:

In terms of the 4,017,235 votes cast, were we to compare the total raw votes to the US, then the number of votes cast yesterday in Israel would be just slightly more than the raw votes cast in the state of Georgia in the last US Presidential election (3,908,369, 2012), but in terms of voter turnout percentage, Israel would be between Maryland (67.3%) and Maine (69.3%). In terms of total population, were Israel a state within the USA (Israel has 8.3 million residents), it would be pretty much exactly the size of the state of Virginia and would have around 13 EV.


PS: I will be updating figures maybe on Friday, barring any surprise developments.
*


----------



## theliq (Mar 18, 2015)

gtopa1 said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...


Well Gottcha LOL.......We have a Preferential System here and I will explain to you how Every Vote is counted.


Well Labour won brilliantly and picked up a load of seats.........the Liberals(Conservatives lost incredibly)

Labour 37.5%

Liberal 41.3%

Greens  8.4%

Palmer   5.1%

Katter      1.9%

One Nation .9%

Family 1ST 1.2%

Others         3.6% Would be numerous Parties......Firstly "the others being the smallest % TBCont


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 18, 2015)

theliq said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > The Yachad fell just 12,000 votes short of passing the threshold.
> ...



Your relativism notwithstanding, yes.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Mar 18, 2015)

theliq said:


> ...if this sort of figure was cast in Australia, then Likud would never be in power; just sayin. But then therein lies the difference between real Democracy and the Banana Republic of Israel, but then Australia is far more sophisticated, modern and forward thinking--unlike Medieval Israel.



Interestingly enough, Israel isn't Australia. There are different types of democracies, liq, none of which have to match yours precisely. That's the problem liberals like you have, you can't dictate politics in another country (well, you tried in this election and failed). "Real democracy" involves not interfering in someone else's elections.

As far as "medieval Israel" is concerned...I just don't get where you get that from. Really, I don't. I mean some of the behavior by liberals here has been "medieval" if anything.


----------



## gtopa1 (Mar 18, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> gtopa1 said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



It's an Australian term of endearment...sorta. used instead of nasty words like..


theliq said:


> gtopa1 said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



Well expand that with the minor parties getting a few more and the major parties getting a few less and there you have it....but on a proportional system similar to Tassie.

Greg


----------



## Statistikhengst (Mar 18, 2015)

gtopa1 said:


> Statistikhengst said:
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I know, lots of good mates from down under.

Might ye be wantn to get pissed, mate?


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## gtopa1 (Mar 18, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


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Not me. I'll have a stubbie or a wine with a meal but haven't been blotto since I was about 12yo. Got so sick that I haven't over-indulged since. When I do drink it has to be stand alone...no mixers or even ice. Hence a good brandy or scotch is fine.

Greg


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## Mindful (Mar 18, 2015)

71.8% of those eligible to vote made their way to the election booths on Tuesday from all around Israel, and some Israelis even traveled from abroad to cast their vote. This is the highest voter turnout since the 1999 elections, and is 4% more than the elections in 2013.

With Ballots Counted Netanyahu Scores Dramatic Decisive Victory in Israeli Elections Jewish Israel News Algemeiner.com


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## Phoenall (Mar 18, 2015)

theliq said:


> gtopa1 said:
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 So the party that the majority of the people voted for lost to the second placed party. Or don't you see that 41.3% of the vote is more than 37.5% of the vote


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## Phoenall (Mar 18, 2015)

gtopa1 said:


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If you like your whisky then try Pigs nose or Sheeps ear


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## Jroc (Mar 18, 2015)

theliq said:


> TemplarKormac said:
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> 
> > The Yachad fell just 12,000 votes short of passing the threshold.
> ...


LOL


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## Jroc (Mar 18, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> View attachment 38070


Good thing you waited for the numbers


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## Jroc (Mar 18, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> *Bibi is now in the better position to form a coalition. He outperformed the final week of polling and also the exit polls. We should note that he also outperformed polling from institutes that are generally very Likud-friendly.*



I must be the election genius now. It was over at 6:00 pm


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## Jroc (Mar 18, 2015)

TemplarKormac said:


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The Arab parties were targeted by Obama's people. They were bused in, this helped Netanyahu very much..Still they are not relevant


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## Statistikhengst (Mar 18, 2015)

Jroc said:


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Yes, I did. Because that's the right way to do it. Anything about that concept that you fail to comprehend?

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk


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## Statistikhengst (Mar 18, 2015)

Jroc said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > *Bibi is now in the better position to form a coalition. He outperformed the final week of polling and also the exit polls. We should note that he also outperformed polling from institutes that are generally very Likud-friendly.*
> ...


No, it was not.

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk


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## Statistikhengst (Mar 18, 2015)

Jroc said:


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Where is your proof of this outrageous statement? 

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk


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## Jroc (Mar 18, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


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 You were in denial, and held out hope for a leftist victory, when you knew it was over early on. It was fun to watch actually


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## Jroc (Mar 18, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


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I have my sources, it was well known by people inside Israel. Obama helped Netanyahu in the end ,and I'm happy about that


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## Coyote (Mar 18, 2015)

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
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> > A lot of people seem to be making this election out to be about Obama.  That's pretty hilarious.  Do Israeli voters go to the polls thinking hmmm....this candidate is too close to Obama, I'm not voting for him?
> ...



No.  The Republicans made it about Obama by inviting Netanyahu to speak shortly before elections.  Netanyahu then used that for his political campaign ad.  *Just as was predicted.*


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## Statistikhengst (Mar 18, 2015)

Jroc said:


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And hearsay is supposed to be proof? Very weak.

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk


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## Jroc (Mar 18, 2015)

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Ok, Obama allies getting out the anti- Netanyahu vote certainly didn't have anything to do with it. I'd like to thank Obama for helping Netanyahu with this great victory


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## Jroc (Mar 18, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


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I'm happy Israel wins that's all that matters to me right now. I did however enjoy watching your obvious desperation as the leftist where going down in flames


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## Mindful (Mar 18, 2015)

*Apartheid? Meet the Arab in Charge of Israel's Elections.*

For the first time in the country’s history, an Arab judge is chairing the Central Elections Committee presiding over today’s national elections.

Justice Salim Jubran (pictured) is a Christian Arab who grew up in the north of Israel. In 2004, he became the first Israeli Arab to be appointed a permanent seat on the Supreme Court. 

Earlier this year, he was given the daunting task of overseeing all those hot-button, contentious and touchy election issues like who gets campaign funding, preventing voter fraud and determining what constitutes fair play in the rock’em sock’em world of Israel’s political propaganda wars. 

For example, it was Judge Jubran who decided to halt funding for Sunday night’s right-wing rally in Tel-Aviv. 

Now, what kind of democracy gives a minority Christian Arab authority to prevent government support for an all Jewish, settlement-supporting political party? Only in Israel. 

*As an Apartheid State, Israel Really Stinks.*

*Apartheid Meet the Arab in Charge of Israel s Elections - Israel Today Israel News*


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## Coyote (Mar 18, 2015)

Jroc said:


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Do you think it's a good thing for foreign politician to use an audience with our representatives for political campaigning?  I don't.   

People have made unsubstantiated allegations that Obama intervened in Israeli elections but so far have no actual evidence.

However we DO have actual evidence that the Republicans did - whether deliberately  or not, they allowed Netanyahu to use them for his own political purposes as is clearly demonstrated by his use of it in a campaign advertisement (despite his blatent lie that this was not a campaign stunt).

Personally - I don't think Obama had much to do with the election outcome as I seriously doubt voters were focused on that, but maybe polling evidence will show differently.


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## aris2chat (Mar 18, 2015)

Coyote said:


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You really think that american candidates have not traveled to give the idea to voters they understand and willing to act on international politics?  They are doing it for votes.  They give speeches about what their policy will involve oversea.  Why was being invited to speak on Iran, major supporter of terrorism, as a nuclear threat to the middle east and the world so different?  Obama is touting his talks with Iran as nearing a close but hides the details that could effect everyone.  Netanyahu has been dealing with the Iranian threat for decades.  His input and the life of his nation are vital in all of this


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## BullKurtz (Mar 18, 2015)

Ahem.....I called this election at 4pm EST (1pm in Phoenix).....The 2015 Israeli legislative Knesset election thread Page 15 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum  then my thread was merged with all this crap.....still, it should be noted that I was right very EARLY in the game.  Those who confront and insult me in the future might take note of that to avoid being haunted by my awesomeness down the line.


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## Coyote (Mar 18, 2015)

aris2chat said:


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His administration has leaked details of the negotiations as they were going on.  As far as I'm concerned - his input can go fly a kite.  That is not the kind of ally we can trust.  Netanyahu has been crying wolf and making false claims about Iran's nuclear capabilities for over a decade *doing everything possible to prevent a diplomatic solution.  *

Does he and Israel have a legitimate concern?  Yes.  But their concern ends, imo, when they try to sabotage negotiations in this manner and draw us into an armed conflict.

If he wanted to speak before Congress - he couldn't have done so AFTER the elections?  Really now?

How many candidates have used an address before the government of a foreign country in their campaign?

Obama is my president - as Bush was.  Not Netanyahu.


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## WelfareQueen (Mar 18, 2015)

Coyote said:


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No....Obama and his people directly interfered with Israel's election.  State Dept money was funneled into opposition parties in an attempt to defeat Bibi.  A high level Obama staffer was also actively working against Netanyahu.

You counter this with Bibi speaking before Congress?  Sorry.  
Nobody beats Obama and his people for utter corruption.  


Source Senate panel probing possible Obama administration ties to anti-Netanyahu effort Fox News


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## Jroc (Mar 18, 2015)

Obama's policies make war more likley not less the Mideast is in caos now thanks to Hussein Obama


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## BullKurtz (Mar 18, 2015)

Coyote said:


> His administration has leaked details of the negotiations as they were going on.  As far as I'm concerned - his input can go fly a kite.  That is not the kind of ally we can trust.  Netanyahu has been crying wolf and making false claims about Iran's nuclear capabilities for over a decade *doing everything possible to prevent a diplomatic solution.  *
> 
> Does he and Israel have a legitimate concern?  Yes.  But their concern ends, imo, when they try to sabotage negotiations in this manner and draw us into an armed conflict.
> 
> ...



There is no "diplomatic solution" to stop Iran from having the bomb.  There will be no agreement because all this charade has done is lighten the sanctions on Iran.  It's a stalling tactic that's kept the IDF from striking their facilities.  While Kerry brays nonsense and Barry has his geek squad trying to upend Bibi, Iran continues processing uranium and plutonium (which is never used to generate electricity).  One of the reasons Obozo doesn't clean house on ISIS is that he wants to control Iraqi airspace so Netanyahu can't send his bombers to Tehran.  He's threatened to shoot them down...an order I doubt US pilots would follow.


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## Coyote (Mar 18, 2015)

WelfareQueen said:


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You have:

a planned "probe" based on a  report that is attributed to a single anonymous source, with "knowledge of the panel’s activities"

No named sources.
Unanamed "top operatives of Obama’s White House"
Unsubstantiated claims by Netanyahu
Former campaign staffers (who are private citizens)


A State Department grant, which ran out in November (well ahead of elections) and that ran out before the group in question (V15) even existed..

_"Well, this is a report – just so people who haven’t followed this as closely know what the details are – about a group called OneVoice. The U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv provided a grant to OneVoice to promote dialogue and support for peace negotiations and a two-state solution. That grant ran from September of 2013 to November of 2014. During the period of the grant, as is standard practice, the U.S. Embassy approved OneVoice Israel’s implementation plan for the grant and monitored its performance. And, as is routine for such a grant, final payments are disbursed after the grantee provides documentation showing completion of the grant terms. Now you’ve learned more about U.S. Government grants than you ever thought you needed to know. 

The grant ended before the advent of V15.* It ended before there was a declaration of an Israeli election.* We’ve seen the media reports about the activities of V15, but *the embassy has not provided any funds, support, or direction to the group.*"_​

This, from the article: *No direct link has been confirmed between Obama and the anti-Netanyahu campaign in Israel,*
and it's from Fox News.

This is your evidence

I counter it with Netanyahu disrespecting our - OUR - president, and using OUR Congress to make a campaign speech.


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## WelfareQueen (Mar 18, 2015)

Coyote said:


> WelfareQueen said:
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Why is Israel's Prime Minister speaking to the American People disrespecting Obama?  

Now the Obama Administration calling Netanyahu "a chickenshit" is desrespectful.  

Senior Obama official Israeli PM Netanyahu is chickenshit WashingtonExaminer.com

This is evidence.  There are hundreds of similar links.  Coyote....sorry...but this has been known for months.  Educate yourself.  

 Obama army deploys to Tel Aviv to topple Netanyahu


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## Mad Scientist (Mar 18, 2015)

Thanks for putting this thread together Stat! Very interesting.


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## BullKurtz (Mar 18, 2015)

_OneVoice, which until November was headed by a veteran diplomat from the Clinton administration, quickly bushed off claims from critics that its backing of V15 meant it was targeting Netanyahu. Such an effort would be illegal under its tax-exempt status, which falls under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Just five days after the public dispatch of the Cruz-Zeldin letter, a “corporation service company” registered a new funding entity in Delaware called PeaceWorks Action, Inc. under a section of the tax code that still governs nonprofits, but allows them to engage in a limited amount of political activity. Listed under section is 501(c)4 of the tax code, PeaceWorks Action, Inc. is now featured on the OneVoice Website as one of OneVoice’s funders, alongside PeaceWorks Foundation, whose name has long been present, and which holds 501(c)3 status like OneVoice itself.

Critics are likely to see the registration as tacit admission that it had indulged in political activity alongside V15, which itself has been advised by former Obama campaign aides, including his top field organizer, Jeremy Bird._

Obama-linked nonprofit filed for new IRS status after accusation of meddling in Israeli election Fox News


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## Statistikhengst (Mar 18, 2015)

Mad Scientist said:


> Thanks for putting this thread together Stat! Very interesting.


My pleasure. 

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk


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## Coyote (Mar 18, 2015)

WelfareQueen said:


> Why is Israel's Prime Minister speaking to the American People disrespecting Obama?
> 
> 
> > That wasn't it and you know it.  It was the manner in which it was done, the timing, and frankly using it outright for a campaign ad.
> ...



Not when it's a private conversation.  Seriously - you don't think Netanyahu or any other political leader doesn't privately say some pretty disrespectful stuff about each other?

What about leaking sensitive elements of a negotiation in progress - is that disrespectful?



> This is evidence.  There are hundreds of similar links.  Coyote....sorry...but this has been known for months.  Educate yourself.
> 
> Obama army deploys to Tel Aviv to topple Netanyahu



WND?  Seriously, WND?  That is your source?

And again...where is your evidence?  This article has even LESS information.



> V15, or “Victory 2015” is backed by a U.S.-U.K. group called “One Voice,” whose official Tel Aviv offices are adjacent to those of V15.
> 
> One Voice bills itself as an “international grassroots movement that amplifies the voice of mainstream Israelis and Palestinians.”  It has a clearly leftist tone.
> 
> ...



V15 (OneVoice International and 270 Strategies (Our Story 270 Strategies appear to be two groups who, according to WND, include 14 former campaign staffers among them.  Looking at the articles list of staffers, and the V15 - aren't even high enough in that organization to be on the board nor are they listed on the team.  270 Solutions is a grass roots organizing group that V15 employs.  It was created by former staffer Bird and includes amongst it's clients a broad assortment of clients.

So...where is this evidence?


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## Coyote (Mar 18, 2015)

BullKurtz said:


> _OneVoice, which until November was headed by a veteran diplomat from the Clinton administration, quickly bushed off claims from critics that its backing of V15 meant it was targeting Netanyahu. Such an effort would be illegal under its tax-exempt status, which falls under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.
> 
> Just five days after the public dispatch of the Cruz-Zeldin letter, a “corporation service company” registered a new funding entity in Delaware called PeaceWorks Action, Inc. under a section of the tax code that still governs nonprofits, but allows them to engage in a limited amount of political activity. Listed under section is 501(c)4 of the tax code, PeaceWorks Action, Inc. is now featured on the OneVoice Website as one of OneVoice’s funders, alongside PeaceWorks Foundation, whose name has long been present, and which holds 501(c)3 status like OneVoice itself.
> 
> ...



So basically, what you have is a grasping of straws attempting link it to Obama.  If laws were violated - political activity by a tax exempt entity, that is actionable.  But claim Obama is engaging in it simply because it's a former campaign staffer (out of several thousand).....is a stretch, pretty much a fallacy of innuendo.


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## montelatici (Mar 18, 2015)

I don't know if the U.S. "interfered" in the election in Israel, however, the U.S. "interferes" in elections all over the world in defense of its interests.  The end of the two-state solution certainly goes against U.S. interests and has caused the U.S. to lose a tremendous amount of leverage vis-a-vis the Europeans and the Muslim world.  U.S. policy will have to undergo a tremendous change with respect to its approach to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict with the two-state solution now formally not viable.


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## BullKurtz (Mar 18, 2015)

Coyote said:


> So basically, what you have is a grasping of straws attempting link it to Obama.  If laws were violated - political activity by a tax exempt entity, that is actionable.  But claim Obama is engaging in it simply because it's a former campaign staffer (out of several thousand).....is a stretch, pretty much a fallacy of innuendo.



  You asked for evidence and there it is in black and white.  They tried to backtrack and get a new IRS status but Lois Lerner doesn't work there anymore and they got caught red-handed.


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## Coyote (Mar 18, 2015)

BullKurtz said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > So basically, what you have is a grasping of straws attempting link it to Obama.  If laws were violated - political activity by a tax exempt entity, that is actionable.  But claim Obama is engaging in it simply because it's a former campaign staffer (out of several thousand).....is a stretch, pretty much a fallacy of innuendo.
> ...




Where is the evidence that Obama is doing this?  Again - there isn't any.  It's innuendo.


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## guno (Mar 18, 2015)

Jroc said:


> Statistikhengst said:
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Jroc said:


> I have my sources, it was well known by people inside Israel





a shanda fur die goy


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## BullKurtz (Mar 18, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Where is the evidence that Obama is doing this?  Again - there isn't any.  It's innuendo.



His State Dept. gave the group $350,000 of our tax dollars to operate.....are you suggesting he didn't know about that?


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## RetiredGySgt (Mar 18, 2015)

Coyote said:


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Ya Obama aides do something and it isn't Obama, but bush aides do something and it was proof Bush did it right? How often has the left made the claim that some associate of some republican doing something is proof that republican did it? And remind us how you claimed it wasn't true.


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## aris2chat (Mar 18, 2015)

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You think congress should be uninformed and Obama do everything by executive order and bypass congress and the courts altogether?
That is not the way the government is supposed to work.  Congress has to be informed, so should the people to some extent to know what is at risk.
Netanyahu did not really leak anything was was not already expected or known.  Not just Israel and the US were at risk with the "Obama" agreement being negotiated but the world as well.  Yes, we should know what is involved before any thing is signed.  It should be approved or rejected by congress.  I'd like to see it go through the military and even a public vote.  This is our lives at stake.


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## peach174 (Mar 18, 2015)

guno said:


> Jroc said:
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It was all over the news and internet in Israel.
Israel voters are well informed and educated on the issues.
The majority of their news is not controlled by the Liberals like they are here in America.
ZionTimes.com...Israel - Obama Sends Political Team To Israel To Defeat Netanyahu Funded By State Dept. 
 The Lid Obama Sends Political Team To Israel To Defeat Netanyahu Funded By State Dept. 
* Partial List of One Voice Sponsors: Including The US State Department

Likud says Isaac Herzog breaking fundraising laws - Israel Elections - Jerusalem Post
Deputy ministers Tzipi Hotovely and Ophir Akunis, MKs Miri Regev and Yariv Levin, and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s attorney David Shimron presented evidence connecting the Zionist Union to V15 (Victory in 2015), an organization working to bring down the government, which has received funding from non-Israeli citizens S. Daniel Abraham and Daniel Lubetzky.

*


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## Coyote (Mar 18, 2015)

aris2chat said:


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Congress does not need to be and is not a party to every negotiated agreement and neither are the courts.  Look at the history of the Salt Talks for example, the Iran Contra affair, the establishment of direct talks with China and Russia.  Why exactly should this be any different?



> That is not the way the government is supposed to work.  Congress has to be informed, so should the people to some extent to know what is at risk.



Not necessarily.  The two branches of government are co-equal, but seperate - and they have their own distinct responsibilities. Congress was not kept totally in the dark but in any negotiation you don't put everything out in the open or public consumption.  When Bush decided to go to invade Iraq - was Congress fully informed?  No.  A good bit of intelligence was held back (mostly intelligence indicating what a bad idea it was).



> Netanyahu did not really leak anything was was not already expected or known.



Yes.  He did.  And whether or not he did he should not have done it.



> Not just Israel and the US were at risk with the "Obama" agreement being negotiated but the world as well.  Yes, we should know what is involved before any thing is signed.  It should be approved or rejected by congress.  I'd like to see it go through the military and even a public vote.  This is our lives at stake.



These things are not decided by "popular opinion" - that is a incredibly hazardous course to go on.  Israel wants to drag us into another armed conflict in the Middle East.  Those are OUR lives at stake.


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## Coyote (Mar 18, 2015)

peach174 said:


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Again - no actual evidence.  It was already clearly shown that the State Department grant was not even given to the V15 group, and the grant expired prior to the election announcement.


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## RetiredGySgt (Mar 18, 2015)

Unlike your paranoid delusions I know that Congress gets its own intel briefs separate and distinct from what the President receives on a daily basis. The President did not withhold anything from Congress on Iraq. He couldn't. And the different intel agencies which DEPEND on Congressional support would not lie for him.  So much for THAT claim. As for TREATIES or agreements that abrogate Congressional action in the Foreign affairs matter the Senate MUST approve by a large margin the President does not have the authority or Constitutional power to act with out them in those regards. The President can not tell Congress that its sanctions of Iraq will be ended with out approval of Congress.


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## TemplarKormac (Mar 18, 2015)

Coyote said:


> peach174 said:
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Whoops:

Obama-linked nonprofit filed for new IRS status after accusation of meddling in Israeli election Fox News


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## Coyote (Mar 18, 2015)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Unlike your paranoid delusions I know that Congress gets its own intel briefs separate and distinct from what the President receives on a daily basis. The President did not withhold anything from Congress on Iraq. He couldn't. And the different intel agencies which DEPEND on Congressional support would not lie for him.  So much for THAT claim. As for TREATIES or agreements that abrogate Congressional action in the Foreign affairs matter the Senate MUST approve by a large margin the President does not have the authority or Constitutional power to act with out them in those regards. The President can not tell Congress that its sanctions of Iraq will be ended with out approval of Congress.



The intelligence agencies answer first to the President and information can be excluded from Congress or given only to select members.
Look up the history of Executive Agreements.
The sanctions are an international effort.


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## Coyote (Mar 18, 2015)

TemplarKormac said:


> Coyote said:
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Oops what?  That doesn't change anything


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## TemplarKormac (Mar 18, 2015)

Coyote said:


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Yes it does. Why did they suddenly file for a new IRS status following the accusation? Perhaps because it was true, they did misuse State Department grants to influence the Israeli election. Actions speak louder than words. It was an acknowledgement that they violated their 501(c)(3) status under IRS regulations.


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## RetiredGySgt (Mar 18, 2015)

Coyote said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Unlike your paranoid delusions I know that Congress gets its own intel briefs separate and distinct from what the President receives on a daily basis. The President did not withhold anything from Congress on Iraq. He couldn't. And the different intel agencies which DEPEND on Congressional support would not lie for him.  So much for THAT claim. As for TREATIES or agreements that abrogate Congressional action in the Foreign affairs matter the Senate MUST approve by a large margin the President does not have the authority or Constitutional power to act with out them in those regards. The President can not tell Congress that its sanctions of Iraq will be ended with out approval of Congress.
> ...


Wrong, the President does not get to prevent the appropriate committees from receiving intel reports. Further you have no actual evidence that Bush made any such Order, in fact three separate congressional investigations all found he did no such thing. As for US sanctions those are from Congress the President can not sign them away with out Senate approval.


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## gtopa1 (Mar 18, 2015)

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> Jroc said:
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Seems it worked well. Now if the republicans can do the same in 2016.........

Greg


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## gtopa1 (Mar 18, 2015)

WelfareQueen said:


> Coyote said:
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Bibi, by the will if the People of Israel, was and is the Prime Minister if Israel. He is no "chickenshit"!!

Greg


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## gtopa1 (Mar 18, 2015)

BullKurtz said:


> _OneVoice, which until November was headed by a veteran diplomat from the Clinton administration, quickly bushed off claims from critics that its backing of V15 meant it was targeting Netanyahu. Such an effort would be illegal under its tax-exempt status, which falls under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.
> 
> Just five days after the public dispatch of the Cruz-Zeldin letter, a “corporation service company” registered a new funding entity in Delaware called PeaceWorks Action, Inc. under a section of the tax code that still governs nonprofits, but allows them to engage in a limited amount of political activity. Listed under section is 501(c)4 of the tax code, PeaceWorks Action, Inc. is now featured on the OneVoice Website as one of OneVoice’s funders, alongside PeaceWorks Foundation, whose name has long been present, and which holds 501(c)3 status like OneVoice itself.
> 
> ...



So Obama gave Bibi the Bird?? That didn't work out too well at all.

Greg


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## peach174 (Mar 18, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
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Seems like a fair trade when the U.S. State Department gave money to one voice defeat him.


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## aris2chat (Mar 18, 2015)

Coyote said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Unlike your paranoid delusions I know that Congress gets its own intel briefs separate and distinct from what the President receives on a daily basis. The President did not withhold anything from Congress on Iraq. He couldn't. And the different intel agencies which DEPEND on Congressional support would not lie for him.  So much for THAT claim. As for TREATIES or agreements that abrogate Congressional action in the Foreign affairs matter the Senate MUST approve by a large margin the President does not have the authority or Constitutional power to act with out them in those regards. The President can not tell Congress that its sanctions of Iraq will be ended with out approval of Congress.
> ...


 
Each nation has it's own sanctions.  President still has to present the agreement to congress.  He cannot hand them a blank piece of paper to agree to and fill in his own terms without them.  President answers to congress and the people.  Even a lame duck president.  It is not "his" agreement but that of the US.

.....so much for his "transparency"


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## aris2chat (Mar 18, 2015)

Coyote said:


> aris2chat said:
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Only to prevent a "bad" diplomatic agreement just for the sake of Obama's legacy.  One that leaves the world in danger of a nuclear race.


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## aris2chat (Mar 18, 2015)

Coyote said:


> WelfareQueen said:
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> ...



Other way around.
Congress invited him.  Obama would not see him.  It was Obama that snubbed Netanyahu.

You think Obama and Kerry being overseas was not political.  You think their speeches to EU or Iran were any less of campaign speeches, or anti Netanyahu campaign speeches?

Obama would rather celebrate Iranian new year in the white house than support an ally from potential genocide because of his personal animosity.


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## gtopa1 (Mar 18, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> theliq said:
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Looks can be deceiving unfortunately. It's like a runoff election if no-one gets 50% + 1...but all on the same ballot paper. We lost fair and square; it is however a hung Parliament with the balance of Power in the hands of three independents. The cause? Dissent in the Conservative cause; disunity is death politically here.

Greg


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## BullKurtz (Mar 18, 2015)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Unlike your paranoid delusions I know that Congress gets its own intel briefs separate and distinct from what the President receives on a daily basis. The President did not withhold anything from Congress on Iraq. He couldn't. And the different intel agencies which DEPEND on Congressional support would not lie for him.  So much for THAT claim. As for TREATIES or agreements that abrogate Congressional action in the Foreign affairs matter the Senate MUST approve by a large margin the President does not have the authority or Constitutional power to act with out them in those regards. The President can not tell Congress that its sanctions of Iraq will be ended with out approval of Congress.



That's correct and when the most detailed and current intel on Saddam's WMDs were offered, only two Senators bothered going into the room to look at it,  Coyote forgets the vast majority of democrats believed Saddam had WMDs and would use them.  Bush was the only one who decided to do something about it.  And as soon as the trouble started, the Rats jumped ship and condemned him for what they never had the guts to do.


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## BullKurtz (Mar 18, 2015)

Coyote said:


> The intelligence agencies answer first to the President and information can be excluded from Congress or given only to select members.
> Look up the history of Executive Agreements.
> The sanctions are an international effort.



The Intel agencies (CIA, DIA, DHS) answer to the Joint Chiefs first, then the president, then select committee heads in Congress.  The proposed deal with Iran is a treaty and by Constitutional dictate must be approved by the Senate...PERIOD.


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## aris2chat (Mar 18, 2015)

JakeStarkey said:


> aris2chat said:
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WSJ Editorial Netanyahu s Victory Reflects Israel s Security Concerns The Tower

My opinion, my observation, my understanding of the situation.............

Guess is it not just my opinion.


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## Coyote (Mar 19, 2015)

aris2chat said:


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*
Wrong order.*

Obama would not see him, *because it was too close to the election*.
Congress invited him to snub Obama and Netanyahu accepted to snub Obama.
Netanyahu* used that video from that meeting as part of his campaign ad*.

Now tell me Obama was wrong to refuse to meet with him or that Netanyahu would not have used such a meeting for his campaign.


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## Coyote (Mar 19, 2015)

BullKurtz said:


> Coyote said:
> 
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> > The intelligence agencies answer first to the President and information can be excluded from Congress or given only to select members.
> ...



Look up the history of Executive Agreements by Presidents.  You will see it has often been used in this manner and is perfectly legit.


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## BullKurtz (Mar 19, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Look up the history of Executive Agreements by Presidents.  You will see it has often been used in this manner and is perfectly legit.



I'm aware of executive agreements and know they have no basis in law, aren't worth the paper they're written on, and can be reversed without the other party's consent.  This is the Senators' letter sole purpose....to remind the mullahs this or any agreement without Senate approval would expire the moment a new president walked into the Oval Office.


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## Coyote (Mar 19, 2015)

peach174 said:


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Did they?

OneVoice and V15 worked together on Israeli political campaigns since 2013, long before any election was announced.  They recieved a State Department grant which ended November 2014, again - *before any election announcement*. So how exactly could they be working to "defeat him" when there wasn't an election on the calendar?


There is also a long history of US political consultants working for Israeli political campaigns:
Bill Knapp, former Obama campaign strategist *worked as an advisor to Netanyahu* in the 2009 election
Josh Isay (who's firm worked for the Obama campaign and is now working for *Netanyahu's campaign*)
Arthur Finkelstein, a Republican strategist *who worked for Netanyahu's campaign* as well.

Where's the outrage?


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## BullKurtz (Mar 19, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Did they?
> 
> OneVoice and V15 worked together on Israeli political campaigns since 2013, long before any election was announced.  They recieved a State Department grant which ended November 2014, again - *before any election announcement*. So how exactly could they be working to "defeat him" when there wasn't an election on the calendar?
> 
> ...



  I'll answer that....never before have US taxpayer dollars gone into a political campaign in Israel...especially one to unseat a prime minister.  You're trying to defend the indefensible.


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## Coyote (Mar 19, 2015)

BullKurtz said:


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Sit down Horshack.

Where have US taxpayer dollars gone into a campaign and where is the evidence that they were used to "unseat" a prime minister?


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## BullKurtz (Mar 19, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Sit down Horshack.
> 
> Where have US taxpayer dollars gone into a campaign and where is the evidence that they were used to "unseat" a prime minister?



"Horshack"?    Look, your boy king got caught with his pants down again....seems he can't get out of his own way when he tries to go Chicago in another country.   The money trail is already proven and the parties in question have asked the IRS for a new classification so they can subvert governments legally.  I'd say nice try but c'mon....he took a shot at Bibi and missed.


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## Mindful (Mar 19, 2015)

Coyote said:


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I seem to recall Obama making his campaign speech in Berlin. Before he even had the nomination.  And thinking to myself: what a cheek. Who does he think he is?


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## Lipush (Mar 19, 2015)

Coyote said:


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Wouldn't suprise me if it was true. Even without evidence.


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## aris2chat (Mar 19, 2015)

Lipush said:


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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/us/politics/24text-obama.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


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## direwolf (Mar 20, 2015)

few months before the election of 2008 obama was visiting in israel and south of israel.
i am sure it was to gaet the joish voice in the electuion


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## Coyote (Mar 20, 2015)

aris2chat said:


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What does an article from July 2008 have to do with this?


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## aris2chat (Mar 20, 2015)

Coyote said:


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senator obama speech in berlin while he was running for president


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## Coyote (Mar 20, 2015)

aris2chat said:


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Almost *5 months before the election*.  How is that comparable with Netanyahu's speech on March 3, *two weeks* prior to the Israeli elections and *using that in his campaign ad*?


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## gtopa1 (Mar 20, 2015)

aris2chat said:


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I really chuckled at this bit.



> I come to Berlin as so many of my countrymen have come before.




Had to laugh!!

Greg


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## Coyote (Mar 20, 2015)

Here's an interesting update - and another possible flip flop for Bibi?

Bennett to Benjamin Netanyahu No coalition without pledge to rule out Palestinian state - Israel News - Jerusalem Post


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## Coyote (Mar 20, 2015)

And another analysis...

Analysis The country nods to Benjamin Netanyahu who now needs to nod to Obama - Israel Elections - Jerusalem Post


> He is an imperfect leader, Benjamin Netanyahu. He has faults and foibles that have been laid bare in great abundance over the nine years – spread over three noncontiguous terms – that he has been in power.
> 
> Yet on Tuesday, the country went to the polls and, for the fourth time, apparently crowned him again as prime minister.
> 
> ...


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## aris2chat (Mar 20, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Here's an interesting update - and another possible flip flop for Bibi?
> 
> Bennett to Benjamin Netanyahu No coalition without pledge to rule out Palestinian state - Israel News - Jerusalem Post



Israel does not want to bend over backward for the palestinians.  If the palestinians want a state it will not be on their terms but on Israel's.
Basically they are fed up with the palestinians.  They want to move on with their lives and concentrate on the need of the country and the Israeli people.  Country and protection first. The palestinians don't have their sh!t together so there is no use trying to get them to the table till they do.  Right now the people or the PA is not ready for a state.  Forget gaza.
Perhaps things will change down the road, but that will likely not come under Netanyahu unless the palestinians can prove themselves.  I'm sure if they have something to say the PM will listen but the life of Israel will not stop waiting in anticipation.  The palestinians are not the most serious issue right now.
Israel is not ignoring the palestinians.  1,000 tons of cement, the release of a hamas member, trade, permitting those over 50 to come and go without per-autorized passes....  There will still be relations, but the Israeli world will not revolve around the palestinians or their desire for a state.
The issue of a palestinian state can be reexamined in a few years, just not today.


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## Coyote (Mar 20, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Here's an interesting update - and another possible flip flop for Bibi?
> ...



I disagree.  The issue of a Palestinian state will be put on the back burner because the goal posts for agreeing to it will be continuously moved and, because Israel does  not truly want to give up any of the land under the Occupation and  if they keep building settlements they will eventually make a two-state option unviable.

The Palestinians are subject to military law - even their children.  They have few rights and those rights are subject to Israel's mood.  The Israeli world may not revolve around the Palestinians or their desire for a state, but the very flippedness of that remark is reminiscent of those who used to say negros should be happy that they have clothes and food and not complain about Jim Crowe etc.  It may not matter to Israeli's, but it mattes to people who live under their occupation.


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## aris2chat (Mar 20, 2015)

Coyote said:


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Likud or ZU, the issue of settlements in zone C will not stop waiting for the PA to come back to the table.  Israel will not surrender the high ground or their security.
It has been the palestinians that have been unwilling to come to a deal.  Even the arab states can't give them a big enough kick in the pants to get them to move forward.  Israel will not hold it's collective breath waiting for the palestinians.  There is no point.  The issue of a palestinian state will not take precedent any more.


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## Coyote (Mar 20, 2015)

aris2chat said:


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It may have to if Israel starts losing the support of their allies over their intransigence in resolving this.


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## Coyote (Mar 20, 2015)

The Palestinians are people too.  No matter how hard you "pro-Israeli's" try to make them less than.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 20, 2015)

aris2chat said:


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A "deal" is something you get from a used car salesman.

They are not interested in "a state" on Israel's terms. They are not interested in more fake peace talks.

They are just pushing for their rights. The rest will follow.


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## Mindful (Mar 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


> In the US we have regions that tend to be red (conservative) and blue (liberal) with urban areas predictably more liberal.  How does that play out in Israel?
> 
> Also....mostly, when we hear the news, the issues on Israel that get reported are national security, peace process, Iran.  What are the important domestic issues playing out in this election?



Affordable rents? Municipal rubbish collection? Do the buses run on time? Gay Pride marches? Should El Al fly on Saturdays?


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## Mindful (Mar 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


> The Palestinians are people too.  No matter how hard you "pro-Israeli's" try to make them less than.



You should know better than to come out with moralising patronising crap like that.


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## Mindful (Mar 21, 2015)

*Can the Israeli Left Ever Win Again?*
*Not unless it gets rid of some very bad ideas.*

*In the winter of 1973, having barely survived a coordinated Arab attack, Israel set out to understand why it had it had missed the many signs pointing toward pending Egyptian aggression. The answer it came up with was long and complicated, but it can be summarized in a single word that every Israeli knows well: Ha’Konseptsya, or the Concept. Israel’s intelligence didn’t see the war coming because of the (mis)conception that Egypt would never risk war unless it had long-range missiles that could hit targets deep inside the Jewish State. The Friday before the war broke out, Israel Defense Forces intelligence officers compiled a document with 39 clauses, each pointing to a different piece of evidence for why an Egyptian invasion was only a matter of time. Their commanding officer, faithful to the Concept, added a 40th and final clause that argued that all evidence aside, the likelihood of war was minuscule. Less than 24 hours later, Egyptian and Syrian planes launched more than 750 sorties against Israeli targets in the north and in the south. Ha’Konseptsya was proven dead wrong.

What the Israeli left experienced this week in light of Benjamin Netanyahu’s electoral triumph wasn’t merely a political setback. It was the shattering of another Concept, another firm worldview that ignored too many signs and relied too heavily on articles of faith. With Labor having delivered its most impressive showing in nearly two decades and yet still falling short, and with Meretz teetering on the brink of extinction, it may not be too much of a stretch to argue that this is the Israeli left’s darkest hour. If it is to survive, it needs to grapple with the Concept that led it astray.

Ironically, at the heart of the Concept are the very missteps liberal Israelis routinely accuse their opponents of committing: abandoning logic and analysis for dogma, magical thinking, and tribal hatred.

Can the Israeli Left Ever Win Again Tablet Magazine


*


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## Judicial review (Mar 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


> The Palestinians are people too.  No matter how hard you "pro-Israeli's" try to make them less than.



If they are innocent people who believe in the same things like freedom and the ability for a better life of prosper then they need to show they are willing to fight for it.  You don't do that by saying you will annihilate one of the most peaceful countries and people in the world in Israel.  You do that by fighting to the death your own leadership that is preventing peace with a country like Israel and the USA.

We did it in 1776.  Others should be willing to do it also if they find their freedoms being controlled.  This is the standard we should have.  Should they get to this point they will have USA and likely Israel's support.


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## Mindful (Mar 21, 2015)

From that piece.

After replacing condescension with conversation, the left could then present a plan that was actionable and concrete. Instead of trying to square the circle by promising to keep the settlements and bring peace and maintain security and foster goodwill all at the same time, it should be blunt about what it really believes. If it truly believes that the settlements ought to remain under Israeli sovereignty and Jerusalem sustained as Israel’s undivided capital—as the Zionist Camp’s platform clearly states—it should abandon its tired old trope about the settlements being the sole obstacle to world peace. And if it believes that removing the settlements is a _sine qua non_, it should explain to Israelis just how a unilateral withdrawal from the West Bank would differ from the unilateral withdrawal from Gaza.

These are not easy questions to answer, but they are not impossible. One could argue that the more things stay the same, the more likely it’ll be that Israel’s enemies grow more desperate and radical, and that it might therefore be worthwhile to consider some sort of partial disengagement from the West Bank. Then, if more Gaza-style Palestinian violence breaks out, Israel could at least defend its uncontested borders with unequivocal ferocity and conviction. It’s still an argument many Israelis might reject, but it is, at the very least, a far more substantive one than merely saying that Bibi is bad and that religion is silly and that the threat people feel is just an imaginary monster that could be banished simply by turning on the night light of positive thinking.

Sadly, no such awakening seems to be in the cards. The latest trend among those who didn’t vote for Bibi is the viral Lo Latet social media campaign; Hebrew for “do not give,” it calls on affluent leftists to brush off charities supporting those impoverished communities that voted for Netanyahu. “The conclusion is very clear,” wrote one enraged Israeli supporting the campaign on Facebook, “things are probably not bad enough for you just yet.” You hardly need to import costly American political strategists to realize that this isn’t what change you can believe in looks like.


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## Mindful (Mar 21, 2015)

Judicial review said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > The Palestinians are people too.  No matter how hard you "pro-Israeli's" try to make them less than.
> ...



Sounds very nice, all well and good.Fighting for freedom and democracy, Arab style, has been done.  Hence the  Arab Spring in Tunisia.  Well yes, they've achieved it......sort of.

Then looked what happened in Tunis a couple of days ago.


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## Judicial review (Mar 21, 2015)

Mindful said:


> Judicial review said:
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There are consequences when fighting for freedom and independence from tyranny and persecution.  No one ever said your lives wouldn't be threatened or killed as a result.  Look at our nation how many men and women and innocent people died on our own lands when we were invaded by the British.  You have to be able to persevere.


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## Mindful (Mar 21, 2015)

Judicial review said:


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What do you mean, "invaded by the British"? You WERE British.


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## Judicial review (Mar 21, 2015)

Mindful said:


> Judicial review said:
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British troops invaded our land by sea.  That's what I was referring to.  Don't play stupid.


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## Mindful (Mar 21, 2015)

Judicial review said:


> Mindful said:
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You're not even playing.

How can the British invade their own lands?


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## Judicial review (Mar 21, 2015)

Mindful said:


> Judicial review said:
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When we signed the declaration of Independence it was no longer their lands you troll.  Now you go on ignore.  bye bye


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## Mindful (Mar 21, 2015)

Judicial review said:


> Mindful said:
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 You just want a fight? Yelling at someone and calling them a troll doesn't cut it. It was a rebellion at that stage. And the British didn't recognise it.


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## Judicial review (Mar 21, 2015)

Mindful said:


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My point exactly.  The British recognizing it was irrelevant.  I choose to look at things from an American perspective and they were looking at it as invading their land that they worked hard on to try to take and kill them on.  

Next time don't argue with me.  I'm just too smart.


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## Mindful (Mar 21, 2015)

Judicial review said:


> Mindful said:
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I'm not arguing with you. Just telling you how it is/was .

How did you read what I said if you put me in Iggy? Not very smart. lol


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## Coyote (Mar 21, 2015)

Judicial review said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > The Palestinians are people too.  No matter how hard you "pro-Israeli's" try to make them less than.
> ...



Israel is NOT one of the most peaceful countries and people in the world.

That is part of the problem.



> *We did it in 1776.  Others should be willing to do it also if they find their freedoms being controlled.*  This is the standard we should have.  Should they get to this point they will have USA and likely Israel's support.



....now this seems contradictory....does this mean you support the Palestinian violence as a means towards obtaining freedom?


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## Judicial review (Mar 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Judicial review said:
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No because they want to wipe out isreal from existence.  We never wanted to do that.  Big difference.


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## Coyote (Mar 21, 2015)

Judicial review said:


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We wanted to drive the British out of the colonies and - by extension wipe Britain from America's existence. 

The other thing is - they don't all want to "wipe Israel from existence" - they want a state and at one time, polls showed they preferred a two-state solution.  As the prospect of that became less and less likely preference has changed to a one state solution.  Ironically, that seems to be what Israel wants as well though their ideas on what that would like like are far aparat.


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## Judicial review (Mar 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Judicial review said:
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No they want Israel wiped out.


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## Coyote (Mar 21, 2015)

Judicial review said:


> Coyote said:
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Not according to Palestinian polls - they want a state: Palestinian Public Opinion Poll No 54 PCPSR

48% support and 51% oppose the two-state solution. But 58% say that the two-state solution is no longer practical due to Israeli settlement expansion and 38% think it is still practical. Similarly, 70% believe that the chances for establishing a Palestinian state next to the state of Israel in the next five years are slim or non-existent.  Despite that, only 28% support and *71% oppose the abandonment of the two-state solution and the adoption of the one-state solution.* The public is divided over the most effective means of ending occupation and building a Palestinian state: 42% believe that armed confrontation is the most effective means; 26% believe negotiation is the best means, and 28% believe that popular non-violent resistance is the most effective route to statehood.​
This was the latest poll and it's Dec 2014.  What's disturbing, but also not surprising given the stalled peace process, reduced hopes of statehood and expansion of settlements going on in occupied land- is an increasing support of violence.


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## Judicial review (Mar 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Judicial review said:
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The people don't matter. They aren't the ones in power.  Their terrorist leaders are.


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## Coyote (Mar 21, 2015)

Judicial review said:


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I disagree.  The people do matter.


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## Judicial review (Mar 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Judicial review said:
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Yes they do matter and if they really cared about what you say they'd kick their leadership out or kill them.


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## Coyote (Mar 21, 2015)

Judicial review said:


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It's never that simple or black and white.  And, right now, they seem to see Hamas as the only option capable of getting them closer to statehood.  Negotiations have failed to produce much progress and that is as much Israel's fault as it is the Palestinian side.  Their governmental structure is a mess, and corruption is huge.


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## Judicial review (Mar 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Judicial review said:
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Bullshit.  Israel holds the cards so the Palestinians need to sacrifice and their leadership has been unwilling and threats of destroying Israel the palistinain people need to over through their government.  Until then they will get nothing from Israel and rightfully so.


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## Coyote (Mar 21, 2015)

Judicial review said:


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True.  They live under Israeli occupation and military law.  

South Africans overthew their government.  Maybe there is a lesson there.


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## Judicial review (Mar 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Judicial review said:
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That isn't what i was talking about and you know it.


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## RetiredGySgt (Mar 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Judicial review said:
> 
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Well except that when they supposedly supported a two state solution Yassar Arafat started a war when Israel tried to give them one TWICE.


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