# Do You Consider the Destruction of Israel a "Personal Tragedy?"



## georgephillip (Mar 7, 2012)

*Less than half of young US Jews in a 2007 poll answered that question with a "yes."*

"*The(2008) Gaza massacre* provoked unprecedented opposition around the world -- in Britain, students occupied buildings in more than a dozen universities across the country -- but, as Finkelstein documents in the second part of the book, this opposition did not come out of the blue.  

"Rather, it '*marked the nadir of a curve plotting a steady decline in support for Israel*', not only in Europe, where Israel consistently ranks among the least popular states in the world, but also in the US.13  

"Most strikingly, American Jews are becoming increasingly ambivalent or even hostile towards Israel, to the point where less than half of young American Jews polled in 2007 answered that they would consider the destruction of Israel a 'personal tragedy'"

Jamie Stern-Weiner, "One Massacre Too Many"


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## MJB12741 (Mar 7, 2012)

BALONEY!  But thanks for giving us something to laugh at while radical Islamists are killing themselves & us infidels all over the world today.





georgephillip said:


> *Less than half of young US Jews in a 2007 poll answered that question with a "yes."*
> 
> "*The(2008) Gaza massacre* provoked unprecedented opposition around the world -- in Britain, students occupied buildings in more than a dozen universities across the country -- but, as Finkelstein documents in the second part of the book, this opposition did not come out of the blue.
> 
> ...


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## MJB12741 (Mar 7, 2012)

Israel's greatest mistake was to make peace offerings to Palestinians, build a security fence & concede land to them so they can remain in Israel.  Face it folks, no Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, ever treated them like Israel does.


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## CaughtInTheMid (Mar 7, 2012)

this may sound too american, but all i care about is the U.S.


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## Spectre13 (Mar 7, 2012)

CaughtInTheMid said:


> this may sound too american, but all i care about is the U.S.



Absolutamundo!  I agree with you wholeheartedly.  we need to clean our own back yard for a while.  it's not like we don't have anything to do...


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## georgephillip (Mar 7, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> BALONEY!  But thanks for giving us something to laugh at while radical Islamists are killing themselves & us infidels all over the world today.
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Do you laugh at the number of Muslims who've been murdered for money and market share by the heroic US military since 1991? 

Which country is the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet?


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## American Horse (Mar 7, 2012)

Actually yes, as much as I could appreciate a calamity like that.  When you look back at their history over the past 3,000 years, the number of times they were taken from their own land and made slaves, their holy temples destroyed and their population scattered to every part of the world (even a population into India in 700 BC), and then the persecution and hostility they suffered as outcasts (burnings at the stake, ghettos where their people were locked up at night, not allowed to be on any street outside those ghettos, forbidden from riding a horse in a city street, forced to wear "badges" to be easily identified), the times their people were ejected again and again from countries which called themselves "civilized" (almost every country present or extinct) then I look at destruction of Israel, if it should occur, as a testament that the human race is violently self destructive, and I hope that will not be the case, for them and for all of us.


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## georgephillip (Mar 7, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Israel's greatest mistake was to make peace offerings to Palestinians, build a security fence & concede land to them so they can remain in Israel.  Face it folks, no Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, ever treated them like Israel does.


Israel's greatest mistake occurred in 1948 when one-third of Palestine's citizens imposed a Jewish state by force of arms on a majority of their fellow Palestinians. Face it, fools, Israel was created to buy western weapons largely paid for by US tax dollars.


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## georgephillip (Mar 7, 2012)

CaughtInTheMid said:


> this may sound too american, but all i care about is the U.S.


Israel is swirling the same apartheid drain today that white South Africa was in the 1980s. Many of the same political forces in the US that labelled Nelson Mandala a "terrorist" then apply the same term to those resisting Israel's illegal occupation today.

Here's one way it could change without violence (more or less)

"If international civil society is serious about urgently ending Israel&#8217;s violations of Palestinian rights, including ending the occupation, then suspension of SWIFT transactions to and from Israeli banks offers an instrument to help bring about a peaceful resolution of an intractable conflict. With computerization, international banking technology has advanced dramatically in the subsequent 20 years since the South African anti-apartheid campaign.

"Although access to New York banks remains essential for foreign exchange transactions because of the role of the dollar, interbank transfer instructions are conducted through the Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT), which is based in Belgium. 

"So, instead of New York &#8212; as in the period when sanctions were applied on South Africa&#8211; Belgium is now the pressure point.

"SWIFT links 8,740 financial institutions in 209 countries. Without access to SWIFT and its interbank payment network, countries are unable either to pay for imports or to receive payment for exports. In short, no payment &#8212; no trade"

Terry Crawford-Browne: To end the occupation, cripple Israeli banks | Israeli Occupation Archive


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## American Horse (Mar 7, 2012)

At the time Israel was created your theory had no applicability.



> The Truman administration -- in an often told tale -- was deeply ambivalent, though ultimately American support was vital. On the one hand, as early as June 1945, President Truman adopted a proposal recommending that 100,000 European Jewish refugees be admitted immediately to Palestine. He communicated this to the British government, which remained quite unwilling to implement the proposal on the grounds that this would alienate opinion in the Arab world. (3) Ultimately, President Truman's support for partition of Palestine and recognition of Israel came at the very last minute and against the advice and wishes of the Departments of State and Defense. At a bitterly contentious White House meeting on May 12, 1948, Truman's advisor, Clark Clifford, argued strongly for immediate recognition of the Jewish state. However, Secretary of State George C. Marshall was strongly opposed and told Truman that if he "were to follow Mr. Clifford's advice and if in the election I was to vote, I would vote against the President." (4) After some confusion and disarray between the White House and the American delegation to the United Nations, the United States did announce de facto recognition only minutes after the announcement of Israel's existence on May 14, 1948. However, the administration did not at first lift an arms embargo, and an Israeli loan request was, as Steven L. Spiegel notes, delayed by the bureaucracy until January 1949. (1949)
> 
> Only very slowly did the special relationship between Israel and the United States evolve. Over a period of time, this has come to rest on deep-seated factors, including historical memory, Judeo-Christian values, the Holocaust, societal ties, strategic interests and the tenacity of Israel. But despite these underlying dimensions--many of which were warmly invoked during celebrations of Israel's fiftieth anniversary--the development of the American-Israeli connection was far from a steady progression of close collaboration or patron-client relations. Indeed, at first the relationship was very much at arms length, and Washington was slow to provide military assistance or economic aid. Crises in the relationship took place in 1953 and especially in 1956-57 over Suez, when the administration of President Eisenhower and Secretary of State John Foster Dulles applied great pressure on Israel to withdraw from the Sinai peninsula which its troops had captured from Egypt in the October 1956 war.
> 
> No additional significant foreign aid was forthcoming until the provision of $86 million in 1952. During the 1950s and early to mid-1960s, aid levels remained quite low. As late as 1967, the annual aid provided to Israel amounted to just $13 million. However, in the aftermath of the Six Day War aid began to increase sharply, with the United States providing $76 million in 1968 and $600 million in 1971. (6)



SOURCE


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## georgephillip (Mar 7, 2012)

Spectre13 said:


> CaughtInTheMid said:
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> > this may sound too american, but all i care about is the U.S.
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I agree with your assessment; however, I think you need to be clear about how others define our "back yard." It's likely the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are winding down because it is no longer feasible to fight wars on the opposite side of the globe with borrowed money.

That still leaves Mexico, which we've invaded three times already, and many in the military/industrial, congressional complex firmly believe Mexico is part of our backyard.

Someday Mexicans (who are Americans) may well be dying at the same rate as Pakistanis are today from US drone strikes. If so, that will bring "The Long War" much closer to home for 99% of US citizens.


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## georgephillip (Mar 7, 2012)

American Horse said:


> Actually yes, as much as I could appreciate a calamity like that.  When you look back at their history over the past 3,000 years, the number of times they were taken from their own land and made slaves, their holy temples destroyed and their population scattered to every part of the world (even a population into India in 700 BC), and then the persecution and hostility they suffered as outcasts (burnings at the stake, ghettos where their people were locked up at night, not allowed to be on any street outside those ghettos, forbidden from riding a horse in a city street, forced to wear "badges" to be easily identified), the times their people were ejected again and again from countries which called themselves "civilized" (almost every country present or extinct) then I look at destruction of Israel, if it should occur, as a testament that the human race is violently self destructive, and I hope that will not be the case, for them and for all of us.


There seems to be a pattern of behavior engaged in by some elite (read rich) Jews over the centuries that results in the historical calamities that you document. It is worth pointing out how Jews were also known to inflict many of the same sufferings on their victims ranging from the Canaanites three thousand years ago to Palestinians today. The choice facing Israel today (imho) is whether it wants to exist as a Jewish state or as a democratic one. If it chooses the latter, the four million inhabitants of the occupied territories must receive the right to vote in Israeli elections.


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## georgephillip (Mar 7, 2012)

American Horse said:


> At the time Israel was created your theory had no applicability.
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*JFK and Gore Vidal have their own theory on why our recognition of Israel happened so quickly:*

"Sometime in the late 1950s, that world-class gossip and occasional historian, John F. Kennedy, told me how, in 1948, Harry S. Truman had been pretty much abandoned by everyone when he came to run for president. 

"Then an *American Zionist brought him two million dollars in cash*, in a suitcase, aboard his whistle-stop campaign train. '*That's why our recognition of Israel was rushed through so fast*.'" 

Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years


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## MJB12741 (Mar 7, 2012)

Get serious.  The majority of Palestinians residing on Israel's land came from the West Bank & Gaza after the Arab/Israeli wars.  Nearly 4 million..  A bunch of squatters rejected by their own Arab brothers in Jordan & Egypt.





georgephillip said:


> American Horse said:
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> 
> > Actually yes, as much as I could appreciate a calamity like that.  When you look back at their history over the past 3,000 years, the number of times they were taken from their own land and made slaves, their holy temples destroyed and their population scattered to every part of the world (even a population into India in 700 BC), and then the persecution and hostility they suffered as outcasts (burnings at the stake, ghettos where their people were locked up at night, not allowed to be on any street outside those ghettos, forbidden from riding a horse in a city street, forced to wear "badges" to be easily identified), the times their people were ejected again and again from countries which called themselves "civilized" (almost every country present or extinct) then I look at destruction of Israel, if it should occur, as a testament that the human race is violently self destructive, and I hope that will not be the case, for them and for all of us.
> ...


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## georgephillip (Mar 7, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Get serious.  The majority of Palestinians residing on Israel's land came from the West Bank & Gaza after the Arab/Israeli wars.  Nearly 4 million..  A bunch of squatters rejected by their own Arab brothers in Jordan & Egypt.
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*Ever heard of Al Nakba?*

"The 1948 Palestinian exodus, known in Arabic as the Nakba (Arabic: &#1575;&#1604;&#1606;&#1603;&#1576;&#1577;*, an-Nakbah, lit. 'disaster', 'catastrophe', or 'cataclysm'),[1] occurred when approximately 711,000 to 725,000 Palestinian Arabs left, fled or were expelled from their homes, during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War and the Civil War that preceded it.[2] The exact number of refugees is a matter of dispute.[3] The causes remain the subject of fundamental disagreement between Arabs and Israelis."

1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## MJB12741 (Mar 7, 2012)

Yeah well, so lets blame Israel for the Arab countries convincing the Palestinians to leave until the Arabs wipe out Israel & bring back the Palestinians.







georgephillip said:


> MJB12741 said:
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> > Get serious.  The majority of Palestinians residing on Israel's land came from the West Bank & Gaza after the Arab/Israeli wars.  Nearly 4 million..  A bunch of squatters rejected by their own Arab brothers in Jordan & Egypt.
> ...


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## georgephillip (Mar 7, 2012)

Or we could blame Zionists for inflicting a Jewish state by force of arms on two-thirds of the population of Palestine in 1948. Jews owned 7% of the land of Palestine in 1948 yet received 55% from the UN partition plan. Zionists made it clear they wanted all the land between the Mediterranean and the Jordan for decades before the UN got involved. 

What's next...Damascus?


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## Hossfly (Mar 7, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Or we could blame Zionists for inflicting a Jewish state by force of arms on two-thirds of the population of Palestine in 1948. Jews owned 7% of the land of Palestine in 1948 yet received 55% from the UN partition plan. Zionists made it clear they wanted all the land between the Mediterranean and the Jordan for decades before the UN got involved.
> 
> What's next...Damascus?


Get yer facts straight,Georgie.
78% of the Palestine Mandate was given to the Hashemites of Saudi Arabia (the rulers of what is known as the Kingdom of Jordan now.) for their helping the British in World War I.  The other 22% was supposed to be divided in half -- 11% to the Jews, 11% to the Arabs.  The Jews accepted this, but the Arabs didn't and that is why all those Arab armies tried to destroy Israel in 1948.  Are you by any chance trying to change history?


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## Hossfly (Mar 7, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> *Less than half of young US Jews in a 2007 poll answered that question with a "yes."*
> 
> "*The(2008) Gaza massacre* provoked unprecedented opposition around the world -- in Britain, students occupied buildings in more than a dozen universities across the country -- but, as Finkelstein documents in the second part of the book, this opposition did not come out of the blue.
> 
> ...


Polls? You spoke about polls? Try this one for size.

Israel/Palestinians


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 8, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
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> > Or we could blame Zionists for inflicting a Jewish state by force of arms on two-thirds of the population of Palestine in 1948. Jews owned 7% of the land of Palestine in 1948 yet received 55% from the UN partition plan. Zionists made it clear they wanted all the land between the Mediterranean and the Jordan for decades before the UN got involved.
> ...



You are rewriting history. No Arab country attacked Israel in 1948.


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## editec (Mar 8, 2012)

The question brought to our attention in this thread is whether or not support for Isreal is fading.

Arguing the merit of positions of either the Israels or the Palestinians doesn't address that question.

The REAL QUESTION in this thread is this:  *Is public support for the Israel fading?*

Frankly, I doubt it much matters _WHAT_ the public thinks.


All that really matters is what the geopolitical needs of the national players are.

The USA is not about to let Israel go down the chute.

70 years of continued support by the USA is all the evidence one needs to arrive at that conclusion.


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## georgephillip (Mar 8, 2012)

What you are saying is accurate only as long as American voters continue to "choose" between Republican OR Democrat in the voting booth. The geopolitical need$ of America's riche$t 1% depend on eternal war and endless debt. 90% to 99% of Americans would be better off if the Jewish state disappeared into the same sewer as White South Africa, imho.


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## georgephillip (Mar 8, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
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> > Or we could blame Zionists for inflicting a Jewish state by force of arms on two-thirds of the population of Palestine in 1948. Jews owned 7% of the land of Palestine in 1948 yet received 55% from the UN partition plan. Zionists made it clear they wanted all the land between the Mediterranean and the Jordan for decades before the UN got involved.
> ...


I don't think I'm the one trying to rewrite history in this case, Hoss.

"The land allocated to the Arab state in the final plan included about 43% of Mandatory Palestine[17] and consisted of all of the highlands, except for Jerusalem, plus one third of the coastline. 

"The highlands contain the major aquifers of Palestine, which supplied water to the coastal cities of central Palestine, including Tel Aviv.[18][unreliable source?] 

"*The Jewish state was to receive 56% of Mandatory Palestine*, a slightly larger area to accommodate the increasing numbers of Jews who would immigrate there.

United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

56% of the land for one-third of the population of Mandate Palestine?
Jews owned only about 7% of the land in Palestine in 1948.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 8, 2012)

georgephillip said:


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The thing about the partition plan (UN resolution 181) is that it is irrelevant. The plan was approved by the General Assembly but was rejected by the Security Council. It was never implemented. It means nothing.


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## Rocko (Mar 8, 2012)

georgephillip said:


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> > baloney!  But thanks for giving us something to laugh at while radical islamists are killing themselves & us infidels all over the world today.
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fuck you.


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## georgephillip (Mar 8, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
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The 61% approval rating Americans give to Israel is due to the steady stream of corporate propaganda that most Americans rely on for their understanding of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. How many of those 1029 adults polled by Gallop know of an Arab peace plan offered at the UN in 1976, for example?

"The basic principles (of a two-state solution) have been accepted by virtually the entire world, including the Arab states (who go on to call for full normalization of relations), the Organization of Islamic States (*including Iran*), and relevant non-state actors (*including Hamas*). 

"A settlement along these lines was first proposed at the U.N. Security Council in January 1976 by the major Arab states. 

"Israel refused to attend the session. 

"*The U.S. vetoed the resolution, and did so again in 1980*. The record at the General Assembly since is similar."

A Middle East Peace That Could Happen (But Won't): In Washington-Speak, "Palestinian State" Means "Fried Chicken"


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## georgephillip (Mar 8, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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*What percentage of Mandate Palestine did the Jewish state receive in 1948?*
If nothing else, Resolution 181 shows a large percentage of the General Assembly was willing to give 33% of the population of Mandate Palestine 56% of the land. What reason did the Security Council offer for its rejection of 181?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 8, 2012)

georgephillip said:


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The plan required the acceptance from both sides. It was not. The plan would have to be implemented by military force and that was beyond the authority of the UN. That would have violated the UN charter.

BTW, since the plan was never implemented, no land was given to Israel.


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## georgephillip (Mar 8, 2012)

Barry44sucks said:


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Why don't you ask Alvin (or the Gipper) how many millions of innocent human beings have been maimed, murdered, incarcerated, or displaced by the US military since 1945?

If you're afraid of that question, try this one: which country is the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet?

They both have the same answer.


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## editec (Mar 8, 2012)

Trying to find the historically HIGHER MORAL GROUND in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a complete waste of time.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 8, 2012)

The Palestinian struggle to achieve self-determination in Palestine was further legitimated by United Nations Resolution 2787 of December 6, 1971, which was reaffirmed in UNGA 2955 (XXVII) of December 12, 1972. The 1971 resolution

1. Confirms the legality of the peoples struggle for self-determination and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably in southern Africa ..., as well as the Palestinian people, by all available means consistent with the Charter of the United Nations;

2. Affirms mans basic human right to fight for the self-determination of his people under colonial and foreign domination;

3. Calls upon all States dedicated to the ideals of freedom and peace to give all their political, moral and material assistance to peoples struggling for liberation, self-determination and independence against colonial and alien domination.

What Are The Palestinian Collective and Individual Rights Under International Law by Faith Zeadey and Elaine Hagopian


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## GHook93 (Mar 8, 2012)

I consider reading your posts a personal tragedy! A man who worked for minimum wage until he collected minimum amount of social security (as you fully admit how you lived your meaningless life) is a TRUE personal tragedy!



georgephillip said:


> *Less than half of young US Jews in a 2007 poll answered that question with a "yes."*
> 
> "*The(2008) Gaza massacre* provoked unprecedented opposition around the world -- in Britain, students occupied buildings in more than a dozen universities across the country -- but, as Finkelstein documents in the second part of the book, this opposition did not come out of the blue.
> 
> ...


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## Hossfly (Mar 8, 2012)

georgephillip said:


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Georgie, I am still waiting for you to admit that the Hashemite Arabs from Saudi Arabia received 78% of the Palestine Mandate which is now the Kingdom of Jordan. You can also tell us all about how the Arabs came in droves from their poor surrounding countries for the jobs that the Jews had for them. Even Winston Churchill wrote about this. BTW are you aware of the fact that the only Palestinians at the time were the Jews,and if you called an Arab,"Palestinian", you would have been insulting him because you would be insinuating that he was a Jew? I am sure you knew these things or could look them up but you are too immersed in taqiyyah to change your rantings.


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## georgephillip (Mar 8, 2012)

GHook93 said:


> I consider reading your posts a personal tragedy! A man who worked for minimum wage until he collected minimum amount of social security (as you fully admit how you lived your meaningless life) is a TRUE personal tragedy!
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For me, it's slaves (like you) who automatically equate money with meaning that present a personal tragedy. Do you have any thoughts on why fewer than 50% of young US Jews today would regard the destruction of Israel as their personal tragedy?


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## Hossfly (Mar 8, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> GHook93 said:
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> > I consider reading your posts a personal tragedy! A man who worked for minimum wage until he collected minimum amount of social security (as you fully admit how you lived your meaningless life) is a TRUE personal tragedy!
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Are you still blabbering on about this?  Perhaps you are not sharp enough to realize that so many young American Jews go to college, and they have these Leftist Jewish professors who are always talking down Israel. The Amcha Initiative · Professor posts anti-Semitic material on CSUN website  No doubt, unless you are very, very dimwitted, you realize  young people are very, very impressionable.  Perhaps you should start telling us why the majority of Americans stick up for Israel.


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## Hossfly (Mar 8, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> MJB12741 said:
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> > Get serious.  The majority of Palestinians residing on Israel's land came from the West Bank & Gaza after the Arab/Israeli wars.  Nearly 4 million..  A bunch of squatters rejected by their own Arab brothers in Jordan & Egypt.
> ...


Anyone can put what they want to in Wikipedia.  However, many of us have the prerogative of going to other sites.  You can visit Israel and ask the Arabs who didn't leave why they stayed.  I think you might get the true story from them.  And while you are visiting Israel, why not ask the Bahaiis and Ahmadis how come they built beautiful Houses of Worship in Israel while their members are being murdered in other Muslim countries for their beliefs.
The Palestinian Refugees


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 8, 2012)

Hossfly said:


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> Perhaps you should start telling us why the majority of Americans stick up for Israel.



Sure, they have been misled.


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## georgephillip (Mar 8, 2012)

Hossfly said:


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Britain subdivided their original mandate into two administrative areas with the land west of the Jordan River remaining under British direct control until 1948. I'm still waiting for you to explain why one-third of the population west of the Jordan was allowed to inflict a Jewish state on their fellow Palestinians by force of arms. Then maybe you can explain the morality of rich white war mongers like Winnie deciding the fate of millions of Arabs. You do know Winnie encouraged the use of chemical warfare on Iraq's Arab population, right?

Arab migration was also influenced by British projects like building the port at Haifa during the 20s and operating it during WWII. I had never heard your allegation "only Jews are Palestinians." Does Bibi know?


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## georgephillip (Mar 8, 2012)

SealDelaney said:


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Are you saying Moses was a myth?

The suffering inflicted by Israel over the last sixty years includes 711,111 Palestinians displaced from their homes in 1948, a series of provocations ranging from Suez in 1956 to  the murder of 34 US citizens serving on the USS Liberty in 1967, to the invasion and occupation of Lebanon in the 80s, to Gaza in 2008.

With the notable exception of the US, Israel has been the biggest sponsor of terrorism on the face of the planet over the last half century.


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## Hossfly (Mar 8, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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They recognize a civilized society as opposed to a bunch of savages trying to destroy a country.  It's too bad that a retired Naval Intelligence Officer is no longer posting.  As he previously said -- if Americans only knew how much Israel has helped the U.S. they would want to give Israel everything that country needs to defend itself.  No doubt you would rather see Israel go down the drain.


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## rhodescholar (Mar 8, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Less than half of young US Jews in a 2007 poll answered that question with a "yes."



I'd consider someone putting a bullet in your head a positive.


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## Hossfly (Mar 8, 2012)

georgephillip said:


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It's impossible to get a truthful answer out of you and Tinmore. Waffling,deflecting and taqiyyah. Better check your handbook Page 1


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## georgephillip (Mar 8, 2012)

SealDelaney said:


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I don't think it's coincidental that the modern history of Israel began with the Balfour Declaration in 1917 when the Royal Navy was converting from coal to oil for fueling its fleet. The first British Military Governor of Jerusalem apparently felt the same way"

"Sir Ronald Storrs, the first Governor of Jerusalem, certainly had no illusions about what a 'Jewish homeland *in Palestine* meant for the British Empire: 'It will form for England,' he said, 'a little loyal Jewish Ulster in a sea of potentially hostile Arabism.'&#8221;

Divide and Conquer as Imperial Rules | FPIF

At the end of WWII the US took over the corporate responsibilities of British Empire particularly in the Middle East. Arab nationalism was seen as the biggest threat to continued corporate rule, and the Russians armed the Arabs in response to the backing of Israel by western interests. Whether or not the weapons came directly from the US taxpayers at that time doesn't change the imperial strategy. There's currently no doubt about the $8million taxpayer going to the Jewish state every day.


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## Hossfly (Mar 8, 2012)

georgephillip said:


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Thank God for AIPAC and ZOG.


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## georgephillip (Mar 8, 2012)

Hossfly said:


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You appear to have a problem with free speech.
Possibly you're too dimwitted to realize that the Jewish state is one of the most racist on the planet, and it's subsidized with 8 million US taxpayer dollars every day. 

I've noticed those blabbering the loudest about boycotts of Israel today come from the same swamp as those who were whining about boycotts of White South Africa four decades ago.

The majority of American stick up for Israel today for the same reasons they believed Iraq had WMDs nine years ago today. All governments lie, and the richer they get the more lies they tell.

Israel and the US have just about reached their limits.


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## georgephillip (Mar 8, 2012)

Hossfly said:


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*It all depends which part of "Israel" you visit.*

*"How is it possible* that through two and a half years of increasingly cruel conduct of our army, the Israeli public has had almost nothing to say about soldiers...

"*urinating on school computers and defecating on the rugs of homes they have garrisoned for use;

"*'accidentally' demolishing the homes of innocent people that happen to be near the homes deliberately destroyed;

"* preventing the residents of entire cities from leaving their houses for weeks on end (no exceptions--not for chemo, dialysis, childbirth, buying food, attending school, or visiting your sick mother);

"*damaging 27 Palestinian ambulances beyond repair and wounding 187 medical personnel [www.palestinercs.org];

"*and assassinating people without the niceties of trial and due process, not to mention reckless shootings in which *126 innocent children aged 13 or younger (including 19 toddlers and infants aged 5 or younger!*) have lost their lives [www.btselem.org]."

Boycott Israel 

It's well known how some Arabs indoctrinate the children to hate all Jews.
It's also true some Jews do exactly the same thing on the US taxpayers' dime.
Time to cut Israel loose.


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## georgephillip (Mar 8, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Less than half of young US Jews in a 2007 poll answered that question with a "yes."
> ...


*You don't want to do that...makes me really, really mad!*


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## Hossfly (Mar 9, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


My God, do you blabber on.  It must be your middle name.  Do you realize how ridiculous you sound by saying that Israel is the most racist state.  Of course, a Dhimwit like you (look up that term; it fits you perfectly) would say something as silly as that.  I really suggest that it would be a good idea for you to travel all over the Middle East so that you can get a really good idea of just who is racist and who isn't.  Meanwhile, all you are doing is making a fool out of yourself, and sound like you are a regular user of the hate sites which regularly spew out how racist Israel is.  Tell you what, you live in the Los Angeles where lots of Filipinos live.  Many of their friends and relatives have jobs in Israel.  Ask these people what their friends and relatives think of Israel as being a racist state.   I'll give you a hint.  The Filipinos, even though they are Asians, hate the thought of losing the privilege of working in Israel.  Now ask them about their friends and relatives who are working in the oil-producing states like Saudi Arabia and how they are being treated there.


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## georgephillip (Mar 9, 2012)

Has it occurred to you how ironic it is for citizens of the Philippines to be taking jobs in Israel that once belonged to Arabs?

"Each Israeli government has held a different stand on the Arab population, but *no Israeli government has ever officially recognized the population as a valid national minority.* 

"Israel&#8217;s leaders reflect the lack of recognition, from David Ben Gurion, who stated that Arabs should be permitted to stay in Israel '*to serve as water carriers*', to Golda Meir, who declared that '*there is no such thing as Palestinians*.'&#8221;

Possibly Ben Gurian thought Filipinos could carry more water?
Or maybe Golda believed there was such a thing as Filipino?
*You're on the wrong side of history on this one, Hoss.*

Social, Economic and Political Status of Arab Citizens of Israel


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## Hossfly (Mar 9, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Has it occurred to you how ironic it is for citizens of the Philippines to be taking jobs in Israel that once belonged to Arabs?
> 
> "Each Israeli government has held a different stand on the Arab population, but *no Israeli government has ever officially recognized the population as a valid national minority.*
> 
> ...


You are deflecting Georgie.  We are talking about racism, and the Filipinos (maybe even though you live in the Los Angeles area aren't aware that they is how they are referred to -- type in Filipino in Google) happen to enjoy living in Israel where they have churches to go to and even their own shops selling goods from the Philippines.  Compare that to what they have in Muslim countries.  Tell us how many churches there are in Muslim countries that the Filipinos can attend on Sunday for Mass. tell us how wonderful they treat the Filiipina women working as maids there.  Nobody is stopping you from finding out about this, are they?  And while you are checking up on the Filipinos, why not check up on how the Hindus working in Muslim countries are treated like slaves.  Meanwhile, if the Arabs didn't start that third Intifada and start killing Jews, they would still be allowed to work in Israel.  Tell us why even some Muslim countries have kicked these Palestinian workers out.  Perhaps it is you, Georgie, being a two-bit anti-Semite who is on the wrong side of history.  People would have to be awfully dumb to think you actually are crying over these "Palestinians."


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## georgephillip (Mar 9, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > SealDelaney said:
> ...


*Which "God" blesses imperialism...the "God of the Collection Plate?"*

*"Investigative journal*ist Seymour Hersh&#8217;s recent revelations that the Israeli government is encouraging Kurdish separatism in Iraq, Iran, and Syria should ring a bell for anyone who has followed the long history of English imperial ambitions.

"It is no surprise that the Israelis should be using the tactic of 'divide and conquer,' the cornerstone policy of an empire that dominated virtually every continent on the globe save South America. 

"The Jewish population of British-controlled Palestine was, after all, victim to exactly the same kind of ethnic manipulation that the Sharon government is presently attempting in Northern Iraq..."

Hossie...I would be very surprised if your ignorance of things historical did not extend well beyond the Middle East. *Have you ever heard of Ulster?*

"Ariel Sharon and former Prime Minister Menachem Begin normally take credit for creating the 'facts on the ground policies that have poured *more than 420,000 settlers into the Occupied Territories*. But they were simply copying Charles I, the English King, who in 1609 forcibly removed the O&#8217;Neill and O&#8217;Donnell clans from the north of Ireland, moved in 20,000 English and Scottish Protestants, and founded the *Plantation of Ulster*.

The 'removal' was never really meant to cleanse Ulster of the Irish. Native labor was essential to the Plantation&#8217;s success and within 15 years more than 4,000 native Irish tenants and their families were back in Ulster. *But they lived in a land divided into religious castes*, with the Protestant invaders on top and the Catholic natives on the bottom."

Of course we know Charles the I didn't personally remove a single member of the O'Neill and O'Donnell clans. He had his loyal Christian conservatives do that part.
*Thank your slave god for that.*

Divide and Conquer as Imperial Rules | FPIF


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## Intense (Mar 9, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > BALONEY!  But thanks for giving us something to laugh at while radical Islamists are killing themselves & us infidels all over the world today.
> ...



How many Muslims are out there killing Muslims in the service of Totalitarianism? Yeah Right. Idiot.


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## georgephillip (Mar 9, 2012)

How many  Muslims are killing Christians for money in your hometown, Einstein?


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## georgephillip (Mar 9, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Has it occurred to you how ironic it is for citizens of the Philippines to be taking jobs in Israel that once belonged to Arabs?
> ...


*You should tell the Vatican all about Israel's love for Filipinos.*

"This time the father did not arrive with a last-minute decision snatched from a judge to take her off the plane. Ofek Castillo, 4 years old &#8211; of Philippine origin but who was born and so far has only lived in Israel &#8211; was expelled with her mother Nancy on a flight from Ben Gurion airport, whose final destination was Manila. On Thursday 25, even the extreme attempt made the week before through Acri &#8211; the Association for civil rights in Israel &#8211; proved useless. 

"And so, for the first time against the children of foreign immigrant workers, that hard line has been applied that for some time has been discussed in Israel. And it is a first that particularly disturbs the 50,000 Filipino Catholics working in the country, who now fear the same thing can happen to dozens of others of their children."

Israel, Discrimination Against Filipino Catholics: the Ofek Case - Vatican Insider

Israel was created for Jews, i.e., the "chosen people."
All other races and nationalities are inferior.

The deflection your provide of Arab states being even more overtly racist than Israel doesn't change the inherent racism of a Jewish state. And it's Israel who depends on $8 million per day from US taxpayers for its survival.


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 10, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Has it occurred to you how ironic it is for citizens of the Philippines to be taking jobs in Israel that once belonged to Arabs?



Israeli-Arabs are recognized as citizens and have equal rights.
When you say 'citizens of the Philippines to be taking jobs in Israel that once belonged to Arabs?' You mean Arabs who are not citizens. 

And that is not ironic at all , what's really ironic is that Arabs who are not citizens of Israel who did not recognize Israel's right to exists were quite happy to employed by it.

And after at least 3 incidents where Arabs tried to run over Israeli citizens with a tractor, it occurred to Israeli employers that hiring people who want to kill you is not the smartest choice.




> Israel was created for Jews, i.e., the "chosen people."
> All other races and nationalities are inferior.
> 
> The deflection your provide of Arab states being even more overtly  racist than Israel doesn't change the inherent racism of a Jewish state.  And it's Israel who depends on $8 million per day from US taxpayers for  its survival.


You have provided incidents and not official policy. 
You have no case when you say 'Israel is a racists state' because there is no policy in Israel that discriminates between it's citizens. 

As the incidents you provided , they have no weight to support your claim ... 
In any country that you consider to be not racist it is possible to find incidents of racism.


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## georgephillip (Mar 10, 2012)

Israel operates two separate educational systems, one for Jewish children and a second for the children of Palestinian Arabs. That alone disproves your claim "there is no policy in Israel that discriminates between its citizens." 

As for Arabs who are not citizens of Israel, they are still subject to Israeli laws and lawlessness.
Quite possibly racist Jews who don't want to be run over by a tractor should stop stealing Arab land and water. Israel's right to exist never extended from the Mediterranean to the Jordan River.


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 10, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Israel operates two separate educational systems, one for Jewish children and a second for the children of Palestinian Arabs. That alone disproves your claim "there is no policy in Israel that discriminates between its citizens."
> 
> As for Arabs who are not citizens of Israel, they are still subject to Israeli laws and lawlessness.
> Quite possibly racist Jews who don't want to be run over by a tractor should stop stealing Arab land and water. Israel's right to exist never extended from the Mediterranean to the Jordan River.





> Israel operates two separate educational systems, one for Jewish  children and a second for the children of Palestinian Arabs. That alone  disproves your claim "there is no policy in Israel that discriminates  between its citizens."


There are actually 4 separate educational systems , and it's by no means a policy of discrimination.
It's not mandatory for a child to be in a specific education system, it's the choice of the parents.



> Israel operates an Arab education system for Israeli-Arabs minority that teaches Arab students, in Arabic, about their history and culture.


Education in Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the opposite of discrimination, how many other countries operate a special education system for a minority group that teaches them in their native language ?




> As for Arabs who are not citizens of Israel, they are still subject to Israeli laws and lawlessness.
> Quite possibly racist Jews who don't want to be run over by a tractor  should stop stealing Arab land and water. Israel's right to exist never  extended from the Mediterranean to the Jordan River.


Here you operate on faulty logic.
It's irrelevant to your claim whether or not Israel is 'stealing' land or water. (And if the Israeli employers were racists they would not hire Arabs in the first place, would they now ?)
Your claim was that other people get 'Jobs that belonged to Arabs'. The reason for other people being employed instead of Arabs is that Arabs tried to kill their employers on numerous occasions.


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## georgephillip (Mar 10, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Israel operates two separate educational systems, one for Jewish children and a second for the children of Palestinian Arabs. That alone disproves your claim "there is no policy in Israel that discriminates between its citizens."
> ...


"Nearly one in four of Israel's 1.6 million schoolchildren are educated in a public school system wholly separate from the majority. The children in this parallel school system are Israeli citizens of Palestinian Arab origin. 

"*Their schools are a world apart in quality from the public schools serving Israel's majority* Jewish population. Often overcrowded and understaffed, poorly built, badly maintained, or simply unavailable, schools for Palestinian Arab children offer fewer facilities and educational opportunities than are offered other Israeli children. 

"*This report is about Israel's discrimination against its Palestinian Arab children in guaranteeing the right to education.* 

"The Israeli government operates two separate school systems, one for Jewish children and one for Palestinian Arab children. *Discrimination against Palestinian Arab children colors every aspect of the two systems.* 

"Education Ministry authorities have acknowledged that the ministry spends less per student in the Arab system than in the Jewish school system... 

Human Rights Watch: Second Class: Discrimination Against Palestinian Arab Children in Israel's Schools - Summary

I found your logic a little questionable when you assert a racist Jew would never hire an Arab in the first place. Assuming racists in Israel are as committed to capitalism as US racists, the capitalist will hire whoever will work for less money. In my circumstances Anglo racists would hire Mexican labor instead of US citizens because the Mexican would work for considerably less.


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## Hossfly (Mar 10, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Poor Georgie doesn't seem to realize that so many Israelis have tried to stop this from happening.  Perhaps Georgie thinks that this is worse than the Muslims who are busy murdering the Catholics in the Philippines.  What's your take on this, Georgie?  I think Georgie is a little confused here.  It is the Muslims who are the ones who think they are Chosen and the ones who are to bring Islam to the entire world.  Being a good Dhimwit, Georgie would have no problem with that.  By the way, Georgie, did you know that a Black person is referred to in Arabic as a slave?  And tell us, Georgie, regardless of what is happening with the Filipino children, does this take away how horribly the foreign workers, including Filipinos are treated in Muslim countries?  And let us not forget that many young Hispanics who were brought here at a very, very young age and know nothing about living anyplace else would be sent back to the country in which they were born if they were caught living here.  I have to say that the following from Georgie reminds me of the typical stuff one finds on the NeoNazi/Islamofascist hate sites......
Israel was created for Jews, i.e., the "chosen people."
All other races and nationalities are inferior.

I am sure the readers will see how racists the Israelis are when viewing this video.  Perhaps Georgie can shows us one originating from some Muslim country along the same vein.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Emmy82tFT30]A Chinese Jewish wedding in Jerusalem - YouTube[/ame]


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 10, 2012)

> I found your logic a little questionable when you assert a racist Jew  would never hire an Arab in the first place. Assuming racists in Israel  are as committed to capitalism as US racists, the capitalist will hire  whoever will work for less money. In my circumstances Anglo racists  would hire Mexican labor instead of US citizens because the Mexican  would work for considerably less.


Right. So if you do not employ minorities you are a racist.
If you do employ minorities you are also racist.
Your classic damned if you do and damned if you don't scenario.


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## georgephillip (Mar 10, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


"At the heart of this story is one of the most hidden faces of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict: a foreign labor law that was written thinking more about *safeguarding the Jewishness of the State of Israel* than respecting a fundamental human right such as the right to a family."

Israel, Discrimination Against Filipino Catholics: the Ofek Case - Vatican Insider 

I wonder if you can connect the dots between racist Jews safeguarding the Jewishness of the State of Israel today with racist crackers safeguarding the Whiteness of South Africa, North Carolina, and Texas half-a-century ago?

You can whine and bitch 'till you're red in the neck about "Muslims murdering Catholics in the Philippines" but you really should clean your own stye first; start with US Christians murdering Muslims for money in places like Yemen, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

Unless you're ignorant and hypocritical?


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 11, 2012)

> I wonder if you can connect the dots between racist Jews safeguarding  the Jewishness of the State of Israel today with racist crackers  safeguarding the Whiteness of South Africa, North Carolina, and Texas  half-a-century ago?


There is noting raciest about it. 
All countries have immigration laws. 
Is the USA granting green cards for everyone who works inside it's borders ? 
The USA never deports people ?
Are all the foreign works citizens of the United States ?


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## uscitizen (Mar 11, 2012)

I have no interests either personal or finiancial in Israel so no way could it be a personal tragedy to me no matter what happens there.


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## georgephillip (Mar 11, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> > I wonder if you can connect the dots between racist Jews safeguarding  the Jewishness of the State of Israel today with racist crackers  safeguarding the Whiteness of South Africa, North Carolina, and Texas  half-a-century ago?
> 
> 
> There is noting raciest about it.
> ...


The USA doesn't favor Christian immigrants above all others.
The Jewish State favors the "chosen people" above all others.


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## jillian (Mar 11, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > > I wonder if you can connect the dots between racist Jews safeguarding  the Jewishness of the State of Israel today with racist crackers  safeguarding the Whiteness of South Africa, North Carolina, and Texas  half-a-century ago?
> ...



how many jews can immigrate to iran, saudi arabia, jordan, lebanon, libya, UAE, iraq, quatar, egypt, syria?

oh right.. .they can't.


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## Hossfly (Mar 11, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > > I wonder if you can connect the dots between racist Jews safeguarding  the Jewishness of the State of Israel today with racist crackers  safeguarding the Whiteness of South Africa, North Carolina, and Texas  half-a-century ago?
> ...


So?


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## editec (Mar 11, 2012)

I so loath any post that proports to tell me what people think based on polls.

Even if I agree with the poll, I ask myself what the point of the post really is.

It cannot be to arrive at any higher truth.

Public opinion is fickle and spins with the winds of change.

Today one opinion dominates and then one dramatic event can turn around public opinion.

Debating about whether or not some poll is right serves no purpose whatever except to give partisans another content free opportunity to insult each other.

_I'm right!_

_No, you're a poopy-head!_

_No, you are!_

_Am not!_

_Are too!_

And so and so on...


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## Hossfly (Mar 11, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


So Georgie Boy, why do you think all those Muslims were allowed into places like Germany in the first place if not for their labor?  Why not tell us how eager Germany was to give these Muslims citizenship even though Muslim children were born there?  It also appears that you don't have any problems with other countries bringing in people to work, such as the oil-rich Gulf states, where the workers would never be able to attain citizenship even if they wanted it.  It also seems that Georgie has no problem with the Muslim countries safeguarding their own countries as staying Muslim in character, even going so far as to not allow Houses of Worship built for their foreign workers, such as we see in Saudi Arabia..  Isn't it sad that the Pope doesn't speak up about the Muslims murdering Catholics in the Philippines, nor does he speak up about Muslims murdering Catholics and other Christians in Muslim countries.  I guess the Vatican thinks it is more important to talk about the children, and we have no way of knowing what the contracts say about these people coming in to Israel to work about having children during their time in Israel.  So tell us, Georgie, which is worse -- sending Catholic children back to the Philippines by the Israelis or killing Catholics by the Muslims?  I wonder if Georgie would be kind enough to show us something about American Christians murdering for money in Yemen, Iraq and Afghanistan.  I am beginning to wonder if Georgie is even an American since he seems to have a very low opinion of our troops who really did not sign up for tremendous salaries?  Were you born here, Georgie?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 11, 2012)

jillian said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...





> The idea of withdrawing Israel but leaving Israelis has yet to go mainstream, but there have been hints. Palestinian National Authority Prime Minister Salam Fayyad said as much at the Aspen Ideas Festival in July, when he declared that Jews would be welcomed in a future Palestinian state.
> 
> Palestine's Jewish minority by Bill Glucroft - Common Ground News Service



Even Hamas has stated that the Jews can stay.


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## georgephillip (Mar 11, 2012)

jillian said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...


And since Iran, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, et al, are racist it only stands to reason Israel should be racist?
If you don't support Muslim racism, why do you feel obligated to defend the Jewish state?


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## georgephillip (Mar 11, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...


Any State designed to favor one race/religion above all others is inherently undemocratic.
Israel favors Jews above all others.
So why do you defend Israel?
Are you anxious for the Second Coming?


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## Hossfly (Mar 11, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


All I know is what I read on the Internet and USMB. Manesseh's descendents are destined to build the Third Temple. How 'bout them apples?


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## georgephillip (Mar 11, 2012)

editec said:


> I so loath any post that proports to tell me what people think based on polls.
> 
> Even if I agree with the poll, I ask myself what the point of the post really is.
> 
> ...


Poopy-Head:

Kindly confine your lucid, rational insights to yourself.
Are you under the  impression any of us on USMB are looking for wisdom?
Please, get help.


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## georgephillip (Mar 11, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


Born in Michigan and raised in California, Hossie.
Are you authentically confused about the number of innocent human beings who've been murdered by "our troops" since Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

"These results provide strong evidence that the Gulf war and trade sanctions caused a threefold increase in mortality among Iraqi children under five years of age. *We estimate that an excess of more than 46,900 children died *between January and August 1991. (N Engl J Med 1992;327:931&#8211;6.)"

*Do you celebrate killing children for money?*

MMS: Error

The fact that Muslims murder Catholics in the Philippines or deny Catholics the right to worship in Saudi Arabia (a US backed dictatorship)  doesn't justify Israel's continued occupation of Palestine. Surely you've noticed only one country on this planet kills thousands of innocent human beings thousands of miles from its homeland? Surely you've noticed Israel's role in facilitating our control over Arab oil production and distribution? 

Unless you were born in Israel...


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## toomuchtime_ (Mar 11, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



Israel was designed to guarantee equal rights to all of its citizens.  In all countries, despite legal guarantees of equal rights, minorities often feel and sometimes are disadvantaged, and Israel is no exception here, but Israel has done a better job than most democracies in providing and protecting equal rights for its minorities.  Not only is Arabic an official language of Israel and every Knesset since the founding of the state had Arab Israeli members, but Arab Israelis are better represented in proportion to their percentage of the population in the Knesset than African Americans are in the US Congress or than minorities are in the British or French parliaments.  

Arab Israelis have been ministers in several Israeli governments, have risen to high ranks in the police and IDF and in many government ministries, have been ambassadors and have held seats on the Supreme Court.  They are guaranteed by law seats on the boards of directors of government owned corporation in proportion to their numbers in the population.

No country is more vigilant in not only protecting equal rights for its minorities, but in trying to provide equal opportunities for them, and no country is more self critical of its failures in these areas.  Because recent studies showed lower levels of academic achievement for most Arab Israelis who chose to attend Arab language schools, funding regulations have been changed so that in the future more money will be spent per capita on Arab Israeli school children than on other Israeli children.  Because of a recent study that showed Arab Israelis are under represented in academia, Israel's colleges and universities now have outreach programs that attempt to entice qualified Arab Israelis to choose an academic career.

Israel has a distinctly Jewish character precisely because it is a democracy and has a large Jewish majority, just as the US has a distinctly Christian character because it is a democracy that has a large Christian majority.  There is no rational basis for claiming Israel is not a democracy just because its sabbath is on Saturday.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 11, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



Which countries did?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 11, 2012)

> Israel was designed to guarantee equal rights to all of its citizens.



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rud19ytcPS8]Israel&#39;s Destruction of the Bedouin Village Al-Arakib - YouTube[/ame]


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 11, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



Good question. Who attacked Israel?


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## georgephillip (Mar 11, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


"*A major division is settlements*. 

"President Obama wants an immediate halt (Sept. 2009), while Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will agree at most to a partial pause. *Even left-leaning Israelis feel the American demand is too much too soon; a 35-year problem shouldn&#8217;t be hurried.*

"There are now more than 285,000 settlers in the West Bank beyond East Jerusalem. 

"Though many might be coaxed back to Israel proper following an agreement with the Palestinians, a menacing minority has made clear its intention of preventing peace at any price, while simultaneously claiming to be a non-issue. 

"*However this minority can become a non-issue if Israeli, Palestinian and international negotiators re-think the path to peace.*" 

Palestine's Jewish minority by Bill Glucroft - Common Ground News Service


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 11, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Buncha Arabs. 
The Jews kicked ass.
The Arabs been whining ever since.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 11, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



So says Israel but it is not true. Israel supposedly was created and attacked in 1948.

Post a 1948 map of Israel showing or explaining where these supposed attacks occurred.


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## toomuchtime_ (Mar 11, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon and Saudi Arabia, as well as various Arab militias.


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## georgephillip (Mar 11, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


*"When Manasseh's reign began*, Sennacherib was king of Assyria, who reigned until 681 BC. Manasseh is mentioned in Assyrian records as a contemporary and *loyal vassal* of Sennacherib's son and successor, Esarhaddon.[2] 

"Assyrian records list Manasseh among twenty-two kings required to provide materials for Esarhaddon's building projects. Esarhaddon died in 669 BC and was succeeded by his son, Ashurbanipal, who also names Manasseh as one of a *number of vassals* who assisted his *campaign against Egypt*.[2]"

'Sounds like another useful vassal (slave), to me.

Manasseh of Judah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## toomuchtime_ (Mar 11, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



No map is necessary.  The Arabs' announced goal was the annihilation of the Jews in Israel as articulated by the Secretary General of the Arab League:



> I personally wish that the Jews do not drive us to this war, as this will be a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Tartar massacre[10] or the Crusader wars.



Azzam's Genocidal Threat :: Middle East Quarterly

Each of the invading Arab countries had territorial ambitions of its own and each of them involved capturing land that the UN had designated as part of the new state of Israel.  

1948 Arab


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 11, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



*So says Israel but it is not true.*

It's not true that the Arabs attacked?
Or it's not true the Arabs got their asses kicked?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 11, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



A song and dance is not a map.

BTW, the UN gave no land to Israel.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 11, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Why would Israel need the UN to give anything?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 11, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



From your link.



> Within hours, Arab forces invaded Palestine.
> 
> The United Nations secretary-general Trygve Lie wrote in his memoirs "The invasion of Palestine by the Arab states was the first armed aggression the world had seen since the end of the [Second World] War.



Hmmm.


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## georgephillip (Mar 11, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> georgephillip said:
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The US doesn't encourage Christians from around the world to immigrate and attain citizenship based solely on religion.
The US doesn't distinguish between nationality and citizenship in the same way Israel does.
The US doesn't formalize different levels of citizenship as the Jewish state allegedly does:

*"Class 'A' citizenship : Jews.*

"Privileged access to the material resources of the State and the social as well as the welfare services of the State. *Are able to utilize the 93 per cent of pre-1967 Israel, controlled by the Land Agency.* Note that no-one can actually purchase the Agency land and that it *is leased to Jews only.*

"*Class 'B' citizenship : Non Jews/Arabs.*

"Taxpayers and citizens with voting rights. *Are denied the right to utilize the 93 per cent of pre-1967 Israel controlled by the Land Agency.* They are also denied equal access to water and social and welfare services. Are generally not permitted to serve in the military which means they are automatically denied the many social and welfare services available to those who complete compulsory (for Jews) military service.

"*Class 'C' citizenship : Non Jews/Arabs.*

"Taxpayers and citizens with voting rights, but classified as 'absentees'. Comprises some 200,000 persons. *Are denied the right to utilize property in 93 per cent of pre-1967 Israel*. They are also denied equal access to water and social and welfare services. *They have also been denied all rights to their own property (lands, houses, corporations, shares, bank accounts, bank safes, etc.)* that they owned until confiscated by the Jewish state. This theft was made 'legal' by the Absentees Property Law of 1950. 

"*Class 'D' citizenship : Non Jews/Arabs.*

"Taxpayers, but without voting rights. Comprises some 3,000,000 persons. Are also denied the right to utilize or buy property anywhere in pre-1967 Israel. Have no access to social and welfare services. Many (mostly those who once lived in pre-1967 Israel) have had all their property confiscated by the Jewish state without compensation and have been forced to live in ghettos spread throughout two areas that today resemble concentration camps.

"Information From 'Israel: An Apartheid State' (Zed Books, London and New Jersey, 1987) by Uri Davis."

Israeli Apartheid.


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## toomuchtime_ (Mar 11, 2012)

georgephillip said:


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Nonsense.  There are no classes of citizens and all Israeli citizens have the same rights to lease state lands.  Israeli laws and courts have held that discrimination on the basis race, ethnicity, religion, etc. is illegal.  These are lies invented by people who understand that the facts do not support their irrational hatreds of Israel and Jews.


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## Hossfly (Mar 11, 2012)

georgephillip said:


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So tell us, Georgie, couldn't the remaining Jews become citizens of Palestine the same way Arabs are citizens of Israel.  The big problem I see with this is that Abbas said that the new state of Palestine is to be Jew free.  Meanwhile perhaps you can tell us if Hamas and Fatah have actually changed their charter about destroying Israel.  Have the Palestinians actually put Israel on their maps?


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## Hossfly (Mar 11, 2012)

georgephillip said:


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Georgie seems to be obsessed with citizenship in Israel, but I bet he doesn't give a thought to the rules for citizenship of other countries.  Each country is allowed to set their own rules for citizenship (such as the Swiss have done when disallowing people to become citizens even if they lived years in Swisterland (I think they changed this just recently).  Perhaps Georgie can tell the Muslim countries to give citizens to those non Muslims who wish it.  secular maldives: Nonmuslim Maldivians to lose citizenship.
 By the way, I wonder if Georgie can tell us why Abbas has said that the new state of Palestine has to be Jew free.  I also wish Georgie would research about the Israeli Arab man who a few years ago had his 54th child and was hoping to make it to 100.  Does Georgie really believe that this man collects no welfare from the State of Israel, as well as other Arab men with loads of kids and their several wives?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 11, 2012)

Hossfly said:


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> Have the Palestinians actually put Israel on their maps?



Where would you have them put it?


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## Hossfly (Mar 11, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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Why, Tinmore, every country on this planet (except maybe the Muslim countries maybe) show the other countries on their maps.  I realize that Palestine is not an actual country yet, but you really should do some research about how Israel is left off their maps.  Did you ever happen to catch that insignia Arafat wore on his uniform? It showed a map of Palestine which even encompassed Israel proper, so it gives you a good idea of how the Arabs also want all of Israel.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 11, 2012)

Hossfly said:


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Indeed, Palestine does not put Israel on its maps and there is good reason for that. Palestine's maps are geographically correct. To place a country on a map the first thing to do is lay out its borders. Then everything inside those borders belongs to that country. The problem is that Israel has no borders.

That makes my question relevant. "Where would you have them put it?" Should they just make up something and stick it in their country?


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## Hossfly (Mar 11, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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You been eating Jimson Weed?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 11, 2012)

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Not at all.

Look it up.


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 11, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, Palestine does not put Israel on its maps and there is good reason for that. Palestine's maps are geographically correct. To place a country on a map the first thing to do is lay out its borders. Then everything inside those borders belongs to that country. The problem is that Israel has no borders.
> 
> That makes my question relevant. "Where would you have them put it?" Should they just make up something and stick it in their country?



First Israel does have borders , if you choose to stick your head in the sand and ignore this fact does not make you right.

Second, "in their country" ? 
Their 'country' is the Palestinian teritories which is the West bank and Gaza. Israel is not inside Gaza or the West Bank ... How would they put it there ?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 11, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Indeed, Palestine does not put Israel on its maps and there is good reason for that. Palestine's maps are geographically correct. To place a country on a map the first thing to do is lay out its borders. Then everything inside those borders belongs to that country. The problem is that Israel has no borders.
> ...





> First Israel does have borders...



Can you prove that?

Cue song and dance.
3
2
1


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 11, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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Sure (no song and dance needed when Wiki knows the answer)



> *Israel's borders* are the borders of the State of Israel. The borders have changed from time to time with developments in Israel's military and diplomatic situation. It borders Lebanon in the north, Syria in the northeast, Jordan and the West Bank in the east, the Gaza Strip and Egypt on the southwest


Borders of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*Now*
Cue song and dance.
3
2
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## JWBooth (Mar 11, 2012)

No more or less than I would the destruction of Greece, Chad, Surinam...


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## georgephillip (Mar 11, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


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There's nothing irrational about hating people who are stealing your land and water and using your children for target practice. 

Israel was never intended as a state for all its citizens; it was intended as a state where every Jewish individual across the planet would be a potential citizen. Two Israeli laws passed in 1950 included the Law of Return which defined boundaries for inclusion (every Jew has the right to immigrate) and the Absentee Property Law which defined who was left out. 

"Under these laws, every Jew throughout the world is legally entitled to become a citizen of the state of Israel upon immigration into the country, while some two million people, the 1948 Palestinian Arabs and their descendants, who were exiled as a consequence of the 1948-9 and the 1967 wars, are denied the rights of citizenship. 

"Nevertheless, their right of return is universally recognized in international law and in repeated UN resolutions (beginning with Resolution 194 (III), 11 December 1948). *They clearly exist*. Yet, they are defined in Israeli law as 'non-existent', and as 'absentees', *and they are excluded by law from actual or potential citizenship in the Jewish state."*

Israeli Apartheid.


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## Ropey (Mar 11, 2012)

Israel is recreated existentially strong.


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## georgephillip (Mar 11, 2012)

Ropey said:


> Israel is recreated existentially strong.


*By whom?*

"First, Zionism did not believe in the existence of God; the movement was secular, not religious...*Zionism insisted that suffering in exile was a result of a minority status*, not of sin. 

"Zionism preached that the Jews must act on their own behalf to create their state in Zion, rather than wait till God did it for them...(Orr, The unJewish State, p.6)

"*And yet, by every conventional criterion, the state of Israel is a theocracy.* 

"Civil marriage is not permitted under Israeli law, and marriage can be legally consecrated only by Rabbinical, Church or *Shari'a courts*. 

"The same applies to divorce. Under Israeli law (Jurisdiction of Rabbinical Courts (Marriage and Divorce), 1953), *religious courts are state courts* and the religious judiciary (Rabbinical, Church and Shari'a) are paid by the state."

Israeli Apartheid.


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## Ropey (Mar 11, 2012)

georgephillip said:


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> ...



Arabs, Christians, Druze, etc. are married by their own conventions as long as they follow the civil *criminal *laws. The same thing with divorces.  

Sorry, no head cutting divorces in Israel. 



georgephillip said:


> Ropey said:
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By the very nature of its existence and second strike capability.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 12, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


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> Border with Lebanon
> 
> The United Nations in June 2000 was called upon to decide the Lebanese border in order to determine whether Israel had fully withdrawn from Lebanon in compliance with Security Council Resolution 425. *This line came to be called the Blue Line.*
> 
> The Blue Line, which the UN had to determine was the line of deployment of the IDF prior to March 14, 1978, when Israel invaded Lebanon.* In effect* that line was recognised by both Lebanon and by Israel as the international border, and not just as the Armistice Demarcation Line of 1949*[citation needed]* (what is commonly called the Green Line) following the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.



The Blue Line? Why not call it the international border?

In effect? Is this some new terminology in international law?

[citation needed] Indeed.


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 12, 2012)

You see , as I said ... 'Song and Dance'. 
I have proved to you that Israel has borders, and you choose to babble about how the borders is named and what 'in effect' means ... 
You have no case.


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## Ropey (Mar 12, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> You see , as I said ... 'Song and Dance'.
> I have proved to you that Israel has borders, and you choose to babble about how the borders is named and what 'in effect' means ...
> 
> You have no case.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 12, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> You see , as I said ... 'Song and Dance'.
> I have proved to you that Israel has borders, and you choose to babble about how the borders is named and what 'in effect' means ...
> You have no case.



No you haven't. Borders are more than just say so. They are established by official agreements. These agreements are documented. These documents are held by the agreeing parties and are usually archived at the UN, the Avalon project at Yale, The Jewish Virtual Library, etc.

Where are these documents?

BTW, nobody has ever been able to find a 1948 map of Israel.


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## Hossfly (Mar 12, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Ropey said:
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> 
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How nice it is for Georgie to let us know that Israel pays for Sharia courts for Muslims and for religious courts for Christians also.  Can Georgie point out to us any Muslim countries that pay for the religious courts of the people of different religions who happen to live in those countries?


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 12, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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*1949 Armistice Agreements

*


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## Hossfly (Mar 12, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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Does this map meet with your approval? If not I have others.

Israel's Borders After 1948 War


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## georgephillip (Mar 12, 2012)

Hossfly said:


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*Put up one from the UN's November '47 partition plan*

"The ordinary Israeli perceives the 'Green Line,' that is, the 1949 cease-fire lines, as the unchallenged international borders of his State, and withdrawal to those borders as the ultimate withdrawal. He could not be more mistaken.

"The ceasefire lines are defined as follows:

"In no sense are the cease-fire lines to be interpreted as political or territorial borders and their delineation in no way affects the rights, demands or positions of any of the parties to the cease-fire agreements regarding the final disposition of the Palestine question.

"The fundamental objective of the cease-fire lines is to serve as a line beyond which the armed forces of each of the parties will deploy.

"Thus Israel has no 'safe and recognized' borders, and the cease-fire lines, as the above agreements signed in Rhodes in 1949 make clear, are unacceptable to the Arab countries and will be unacceptable to the international community as soon as the issue is raised. 

"The only internationally recognized borders are the *UN's November 1947 partition borders.*" 

Outpost, September 1999, p. 3


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## georgephillip (Mar 12, 2012)

Hossfly said:


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Theocracies that provide three times as many religious courts as other theocracies are three times the threat to democracy. Are you looking forward to Rapture, Hossie?


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 12, 2012)

georgephillip said:


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This is a load of bull.


> The armistice agreements were clear (at Arab insistence) that they were  not creating permanent borders. The Egyptian-Israeli agreement stated  "The Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a  political or territorial boundary, and is delineated without prejudice  to rights, claims and positions of either Party to the Armistice as  regards ultimate settlement of the Palestine question."[1]


In short until a permanent settlement can be achieved the 1949 armistice lines serve as borders.


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## Hossfly (Mar 12, 2012)

georgephillip said:


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Tinmore wanted 1948, you want 1947. Jaysus, what does it take to convince you?
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts About Israel/Israel in Maps/Armistice Lines 1949-1967

You can read up on Res 242


United Nations Security Council Resolution 242


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## georgephillip (Mar 12, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


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In January of 1976 the Arab states offered a permanent two state solution at the Security Council based on pre-'67 borders with minor and mutual modifications. Israel refused to attend the session, and the US vetoed the resolution.

Is that because there's more money in stealing your neighbors land and water?


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## Hossfly (Mar 12, 2012)

georgephillip said:


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Hmm, Georgie seems to be obsessed with money.  Maybe he should get a better job.  Meanwhile, I wonder if Georgie can tell us why the Palestinians weren't clamoring for a state when the Egyptians and Jordanians were administering these territories.  Look at how all the years passed when they said nothing about establishing a state of their own.  Could it be that they felt they didn't need a state as long as the Egyptians and Jordanians were in charge, but when Israel started administering the territories, they couldn't bear the thought that it was the Jews who were in charge?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 12, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


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1949.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 12, 2012)

Hossfly said:


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> Armistice Lines 1949-1967



*Nope. No 1948 map here.*


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## Hossfly (Mar 12, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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Israel's Borders After 1948 War

This map was posted in thread: Right of Return ,a subject you belabor.


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 12, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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problem ?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 12, 2012)

Hossfly said:


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No 1948 map here.


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## Hossfly (Mar 12, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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I forgot, Tinny. There was no 1948. The UN decided to postpone 1948 until Fakeistinians decided to accept Israel. What happened?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 12, 2012)

Hossfly said:


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1948 was a big year for Israel. That was when foreigners declared themselves to be the state of Israel inside Palestine. Israel was supposedly attacked by 5 Arab countries.

It seems strange that nobody can find a 1948 map of Israel. It is like it didn't exist.


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## georgephillip (Mar 12, 2012)

Hossfly said:


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Any thoughts on why the US vetoed the '76 Arab peace proposal?
Same reason Israel didn't bother to attend the session, maybe.
Sounds like the Arabs got no partners in the search for peace.

I'm not obsessing over money as much as I'm confused about why gutless draft dodgers like Cheney, Bush and Clinton are allowed to profit from the deaths of heroes like Pat Tillman. Maybe you can explain that?

Palestinians weren't protesting prior to '67 to same extent they are today because Egyptians and Jordanians weren't killing their children for sport:

"It is still. The camp waits, as if holding its breath. And then, out of the dry furnace air, a disembodied voice crackles over a loudspeaker.

"'Come on, dogs,' the voice booms in Arabic. 'Where are all the dogs of Khan Younis? Come! Come!'

"I stand up. I walk outside the hut. The invective continues to spew: 'Son of a bitch!' 'Son of a whore!' 'Your mother's ****!'

"The boys dart in small packs up the sloping dunes to the electric fence that separates the camp from the Jewish settlement. They lob rocks toward two armored jeeps parked on top of the dune and mounted with loudspeakers. 

"Three ambulances line the road below the dunes in anticipation of what is to come.

"A percussion grenade explodes. The boys, most no more than ten or eleven years old, scatter, running clumsily across the heavy sand. They descend out of sight behind a sandbank in front of me. There are no sounds of gunfire. 

"The soldiers shoot with silencers. 

"The bullets from the M-16 rifles tumble end over end through the children's slight bodies. Later, in the hospital, I will see the destruction: *the stomachs ripped out, the gaping holes in limbs* and torsos..."

"Children have been shot in other conflicts I have covereddeath squads gunned them down in El Salvador and Guatemala, mothers with infants were lined up and massacred in Algeria, and Serb snipers put children in their sights and watched them crumple onto the pavement in Sarajevobut I have never before watched soldiers entice children like mice into a trap and murder them for sport."

A Gaza Diary - by Chris Hedges


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## Hossfly (Mar 12, 2012)

georgephillip said:


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Tsk,tsk,tsk.Shsme,shame,shame.

Looks like Georgie Boy reads the same hate sites as many of the other anti-Semites do.  I can't begin to tell the readers how many times this one story has been pulled up by those with the same mindset as Georgie..  If he would have actually researched further, he would have found out that Chris Hedges wasn't even in the area when he wrote this piece  so how he could report on something when he wasn't even there to witness?  So you see, Georgie, your excuse for the Palestinians not clamoring for a state before 1967 just doesn't wash.  Does Georgie really think that all of us here really think he is so a good humanitarian worrying about the Palestinian people?  I am willing to bet that he never follows any stories about what the Muslims are doing to people, such as killing those of other religions and even killing other Muslims of different sects, of kidnapping Hindu and Christian girls and forcing them to convert to Islam, of people being arrested and thrown into prison because of alleged blasphemy against Islam, of all the honor killings, etc.  I wonder if Georgie even bothered to read the news on AOL today about the Syrians burning children alive in front of their mothers.  I have a feeling that Georgie isn't concerned with any of the above because there are no Jews involved


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## georgephillip (Mar 13, 2012)

*Harper's Magazine is a hate site?*

Speaking of research:

"Chris Hedges is currently a senior fellow at The Nation Institute in New York City.[6] He spent nearly two decades as a foreign correspondent in Central America, the Middle East, Africa and the Balkans. 

"He has reported from more than fifty countries, and has worked for The Christian Science Monitor, National Public Radio, The Dallas Morning News, and *The New York Times,[1] where he was a foreign correspondent for fifteen years* (1990&#8211;2005).

"In 2002, Hedges was part of the team of reporters at The New York Times awarded the Pulitzer Prize for the paper's coverage of global terrorism. He also received in 2002 the Amnesty International Global Award for Human Rights Journalism. He has taught at Columbia University, New York University, Princeton University[1] and The University of Toronto..."

Chris Hedges - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Were you in Gaza in 2001?
Is that how you're sure Hedges "wasn't even in the area?"
Are you the only person who knows this?
Link, please.


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## Hossfly (Mar 13, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> *Harper's Magazine is a hate site?*
> 
> Speaking of research:
> 
> ...


Georgie, if you were half as smart as you think you are you wouldn't be half as smart as I think you are.
The Word of the Day is----"Nugatory"


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 13, 2012)

Hossfly said:


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It looks like your "discredit the source" propaganda ploy is not holding water.


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## Hossfly (Mar 13, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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I guess Tinmore is not aware of how many times this Hedges article was brought up by anti-Semites who sound just like the ones who frequent sites like Stormfront.com.  Meanwhile, it looks as if he didn't do his research to find out that Hedges wasn't even in that area so how could he write about something he never witnessed.  Nevertheless, I bet Tinmore didn't even blink when he read the AOL news yesterday about Syria burning children in front of their mothers.  He probably doesn't even blink either when there are news stories of so many children killed by Muslims.  Why does he care?  The Jews aren't involved in these incidents.  
By the way, have  you read about Chris Hedges being booed off the stage as he delivered a graduation speech at Rockford College in Illinois?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 13, 2012)

Hossfly said:


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No I"m not. Sorry.


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## georgephillip (Mar 13, 2012)

Hossfly said:


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What do your sources tell you about Beit Agron
Was Hedges there?
How about Yusuf ("Man of Peace") Samir?

"In Beit Agron I run into familiar Israeli press officials. They are efficient: our press cards are ready in minutes. They welcome me back. They ask about New York. They hand out cell-phone numbers and tell us to call if we need assistance. 

"Joe and I get up to leave, but we are blocked at the door by a man in his early sixties wearing a gray leisure suit. His name is Yusuf Samir, and he is a reporter for the Israeli Arabic service. He tells us that he was kidnapped recently in the West Bank by Palestinian gunmen and held for several weeks.

"'The Palestinians are animals,' he says. 'They are less than human. They are savage beasts. Israel is a land of love. People in Israel love one another. But the Palestinians do not love. They hate. They should be destroyed. We should put fire to them. We should take back Beit Jala, Bethlehem, *take back all the land and get rid of them.'"*

"The Israeli press officers are beaming.

"'He is a great man, a poet,' one says as we leave. 'He is a man of peace.'"

Peace for some Israelis seems to require the extermination of all Palestinians.
Are you ready for that fight, Hossie?

A Gaza Diary - by Chris Hedges


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## Hossfly (Mar 13, 2012)

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You're not what,other than sorry?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 13, 2012)

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I guess Tinmore is not aware of how many times this Hedges...


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## Hossfly (Mar 13, 2012)

georgephillip said:


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I read Hedges crap so I can keep up with his anti-American,anti-Semitic leanings.As for the Palisimians, no one wants to exterminate them. Remember---taqiyyah and Turnspeak doesn't cut it here.


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## georgephillip (Mar 13, 2012)

*AIPAC doesn't cut it here.*

"*The battle for justice in the Middle East is our battle*. 

"It is part of the vast, global battle against the 1 percent. 

"*It is about living rather than dying*. 

"It is about communicating rather than killing. It is about love rather than hate. 

"It is part of the great battle against the corporate forces of death that reign over us&#8212;the fossil fuel industry, the weapons manufacturers, the security and surveillance state, the speculators on Wall Street, the oligarchic elites who assault our poor, our working men and women, *our children, one in four of whom depend on food stamps to eat*..."

AIPAC Works for the 1 Percent | Common Dreams

Those of us alive today are caught up in a class war that started with chattel slavery.
Chris Hedges gets it.
Slaves don't.


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## rhodescholar (Mar 13, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> You appear to have a problem with free speech.



And assholes like you have problems with facts.



> Possibly you're too dimwitted to realize that the Jewish state is one of the most racist on the planet,



Clearly you are fucking stupid and retarded, as you have no fucking idea WTF you are talking about.  Moron.



> and it's subsidized with 8 million US taxpayer dollars every day.



Really?  How so, moron?


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## Hossfly (Mar 14, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> *AIPAC doesn't cut it here.*
> 
> "*The battle for justice in the Middle East is our battle*.
> 
> ...


Well, Georgie Boy, you have been elected to fly over to the Middle East and tell all those people who got so rich in oil to start sharing the proceeds with their poorer Arab brethren.  Tell them that they really do not need any more palaces, silver plated cards and trips to Las Vegas and London.  You can also tell them that they have spent enough money on real estate in such high priced cities as New York and to use the money instead for the people.


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## georgephillip (Mar 14, 2012)

Well...Hossie, as a citizen of the greatest purveyor of violence for the $ake of violence on this planet, I think I'll do what little I can to roll back US greed and terrorism:

"We have not brought freedom, democracy and the virtues of Western civilization to the Muslim world. *We have brought state terrorism, massive destruction, war and death.* There is no moral distinction between a drone strike and the explosion of the improvised explosive device, between a suicide bombing and a targeted assassination. 

"We have used the iron fist of the American military to implant our oil companies in Iraq, occupy Afghanistan and ensure that the Muslim world remains submissive and compliant. 

"We have supported a government in Israel that has carried out egregious war crimes in Lebanon and Gaza and is daily stealing larger and larger portions of Palestinian land. 

"We have established a network of military bases, some the size of small cities, in Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Kuwait, and we have secured basing rights in the Gulf states of Bahrain, Qatar, Oman and the United Arab Emirates. 

"We have expanded our military operations to Uzbekistan, Pakistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Egypt, Algeria and Yemen. And no one believes, except perhaps us, that we have any intention of leaving."

AIPAC Works for the 1 Percent | Common Dreams


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## ima (Mar 14, 2012)

Once Israel is gone, who do you think the arabs are coming after next?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 14, 2012)

*We have not brought freedom, democracy and the virtues of Western civilization to the Muslim world.*

The Muslim world doesn't want any of those things.


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## toomuchtime_ (Mar 14, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *We have not brought freedom, democracy and the virtues of Western civilization to the Muslim world.*
> 
> The Muslim world doesn't want any of those things.



That's not altogether true.  There seem to be many in the Muslim ME that do want democracy, but these cultures are by western standards socially and politically primitive, with loyalties often going to tribe or clan or religious faction and not to the nation.  Nonetheless, the US has helped the Iraqis overcome the terror Saddam had instilled in them and build a fledgling democracy and it is helping the Afghans overcome the tyranny the Taliban had imposed on the country and to establish democracy in Afghanistan.  Progress is slow and at considerable cost because these countries are trying to accomplish in a few years what it took western cultures centuries to accomplish, but when you consider all the blood that was shed in the West over the centuries to forge strong national identities and establish Democratic governments, the price these ME countries are paying is no greater than what our ancestors paid.


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## georgephillip (Mar 14, 2012)

ima said:


> Once Israel is gone, who do you think the arabs are coming after next?


Hopefully the House of Windsor and other assorted British Royals since it was England's desire for a "little, loyal Jewish Ulster in a sea of potentially hostile Arabism" that began the process of inflicting a Jewish state on a majority of Palestinians.

Imho, it is not a coincidence that England began establishing Israel at the same time the Royal Navy was switching from coal to oil to fuel her fleets.

Divide and Conquer as Imperial Rules | FPIF


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 14, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Once Israel is gone, who do you think the arabs are coming after next?
> ...



Why so angry?
Jewish guy banging your ex?


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## georgephillip (Mar 14, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *We have not brought freedom, democracy and the virtues of Western civilization to the Muslim world.*
> 
> The Muslim world doesn't want any of those things.


*How do they feel about their children?*

"There were scores of graphic pictures and videos from the prison in Abu Ghraib that were swiftly classified and hidden from public view. 

"And in these videos, as Seymour Hersh reported, mothers who were arrested with their young sons, often children, watched in horror as their boys were repeatedly sodomized. *This was filmed*. And on the soundtrack you hear the boys shrieking. And the mothers were smuggling notes out to their families saying, '*Come and kill us because of what is happening.'*&#8221;

AIPAC Works for the 1 Percent | Common Dreams


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## Hossfly (Mar 14, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > *We have not brought freedom, democracy and the virtues of Western civilization to the Muslim world.*
> ...


When I read of things like happening I want to cry tears as big as horse turds for Chris Hedges, the guy who is always reporting from the crime scene. You know, the writer who discloses "witness" accounts.


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## georgephillip (Mar 14, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


A writer who risks his own life to witness the crimes of the rich and powerful, you mean?

"*We are the biggest problem in the Middle East*. 

"It is we who legitimize the Mahmoud Ahmadinejads, suicide bombers and radical jihadists. The longer we drop iron fragmentation bombs and seize Muslim land, the longer we kill with impunity, the more these monsters, *reflections of our own distorted image*, will proliferate.

"'If you gaze into the abyss,' Friedrich Nietzsche wrote, 'the abyss gazes into you.'&#8221;

*Gazed into one too many abysses, Hossie?*

AIPAC Works for the 1 Percent | Common Dreams


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## Hossfly (Mar 14, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > *We have not brought freedom, democracy and the virtues of Western civilization to the Muslim world.*
> ...


I wonder if Georgie can tell us where was Chris Hedges and these Code Pink gals all this time when human rights atrocities were being committed in the Muslim world against non Muslims and even Muslims of different sects.  Do they conveniently close their eyes to the human rights violations that happen in the Muslim world not only today but all those violations that have been happened for years on end? Are they afraid that if they speak up, the Muslims would start rioting against them like so many Muslims are prone to do?  By the way, Georgie, do you think Chris Hedges will ever get around to writing a story about the Syrians burning children to death in front of their mothers like we read about in the news the other day?  When he does, can you alert us to this story?  It would be much appreciated.  It would also be appreciated it you could alert us to a story if he ever writes about the Libyans murdering the Blacks.  Being such a fair minded man, he must already be thinking about writing these stories, don't you think so?


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## georgephillip (Mar 14, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Syrians and other Muslims aren't burning children to death in your neighborhoods, are they Hossie? What percentage of Muslim human rights violations are perpetrated by US-backed puppets following instructions from DC? Saudi Arabia and Bahrain come to mind. 

There is only one country on this planet that murders, maims, incarcerates, and displaces millions of innocent Muslims thousands of miles from its homeland. When are you going to protest the crimes committed by your own government?

*Which country is the greatest purveyor of violence in this world?*


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 14, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
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> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Yeah, he should just go to Israel and get handed his press releases like everyone else.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 14, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...





> What percentage of Muslim human rights violations are perpetrated by US-backed puppets following instructions from DC?


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## Hossfly (Mar 14, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
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Is this ground hog day or are you two practicing for April Fools day? If someone shook your family trees what kind of nuts would fall out?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 14, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



"Palestinian" exploding nuts.


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## Hossfly (Mar 14, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


It is quite obvious, Tinmore, that you have been blind to what is happening in the Muslim world.  I would suggest that you read some on-line news sources that cover what actually is going on because you keep on making yourself look like such a fool.  Was it the U.S. that told the Muslims to murder over 2 million Christians in the Sudan?  Was it the U.S. who told the Muslims to murder 3 million people (mainly Hindus) in Bangladesh?  Was it the U.S. who told the Muslims to murder millions of Christians in Nigeria?  Was it the U.S. who told the Arab Muslims to go after the Black Muslims in Darfur which caused 300,000 of them to perish, women to be raped, and those women who managed to escape to live in tents in refugee camps in Chad?  Is it the U.S. who is telling the Shiites and Sunnis to continue killing each other in places like Iraq and Pakistan?   If you feel that this country is so terrible, nobody is really stopping your from packing  your bags and moving to some Muslim country (maybe you are not even living here in the U.S.).  You would fit in perfect there -- being the good Dhimwit that you are.


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## ima (Mar 15, 2012)

"*Which country is the greatest purveyor of violence in this world?*"

That's an easy one: the US.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 15, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



It is hard to tell the roots of these problems. You have to dig deep to find the players and the payers. You have to follow the money. The MSM is notorious for* not* digging up this information. We are just mushrooms.



> Is it the U.S. who is telling the Shiites and Sunnis to continue killing each other in places like Iraq and Pakistan?



I have seen several Iraqis interviewed on TV. When asked if they were Sunnis or Shiites they all had the same response. "Nobody ever asked that question before the US occupation." It was not an issue.

Hannan Asrawi, a Christian woman who is a popular leader in Palestine, states that religious labeling is a recent phenomenon. It was not an issue.


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## georgephillip (Mar 15, 2012)

ima said:


> "*Which country is the greatest purveyor of violence in this world?*"
> 
> That's an easy one: the US.


Before long it won't be possible for the US to borrow enough money to fund invasions and occupations on the opposite side of the globe, and that will probably turn out to be very bad news for Mexico. Are you ready for "Fast and Furious: The American Oil War?"


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 15, 2012)

ConquistaDora The Explorer - CollegeHumor Video


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## georgephillip (Mar 15, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


There is still only one country that's murdered millions of human beings thousands of miles from its homeland over the past 65 years. Why are you deflecting from that truth? Only a useful idiot or a rich bitch would focus first on the violence Muslims commit when living in the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet.


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## Hossfly (Mar 15, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


I wonder if Georgie can break it down for us and show us where the U.S. has killed millions.  If you take Iraq, for example, most of the killings have been done by Iraqis themselves on fellow citizens and by Muslim insurgents who came into Iraq from other countries.  However, it looks like Georgie doesn't like his own country *I wonder if he was a draft dodger) so would rather blame all the killings as done by Americans.  Yessirree, Georgie himself is a Dhimwit and the radical Muslims love idiots like him.


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 15, 2012)

George , so basically your argument is that Muslims killing Muslims is OK as long as the Americans kill more Muslims ?
The logic of this argument is kind of lame ...
Also I would like to see proof of Americans killing the most people in the last century.


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## Hossfly (Mar 15, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Hannan Aswari is fulla Shi'ite

Perhaps Tinmore should start educating himself on the history of the Shiites and Sunnis being at each other's throats since Islam originated.  I think the Shiites in Pakistan could tell him a thing or two since they are the ones who always seem to be blown up by the Sunnis, such as the incident not too long ago when they were on a pilgramage for the Shiite holiday of Ashura.  Shiite Versus Sunni


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 15, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> George , so basically your argument is that Muslims killing Muslims is OK as long as the Americans kill more Muslims ?
> The logic of this argument is kind of lame ...
> Also I would like to see proof of Americans killing the most people in the last century.



What about all those Christians killing Christians in Mexico or Columbia?


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## Hossfly (Mar 15, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > George , so basically your argument is that Muslims killing Muslims is OK as long as the Americans kill more Muslims ?
> ...


Christians ain't killing Christians because they're Christians. Unlike Mooslimes.


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## DCJ (Mar 15, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> *Less than half of young US Jews in a 2007 poll answered that question with a "yes."*
> 
> "*The(2008) Gaza massacre* provoked unprecedented opposition around the world -- in Britain, students occupied buildings in more than a dozen universities across the country -- but, as Finkelstein documents in the second part of the book, this opposition did not come out of the blue.
> 
> ...




Destruction is not defined- So I guess for the emotionally charged we are talking genocide or something..... 

That is not the only alternative.....  Including the nature of the state becoming more inclusive..........

They are turning off the world but as long as they have the "big satan" on their side, it don't matter much now does it..............


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## Hossfly (Mar 15, 2012)

BillCosby said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > *Less than half of young US Jews in a 2007 poll answered that question with a "yes."*
> ...


It's a shame that the young Jews and many of the young of other religions listen to their Leftist college professors about how bad Israel and the United States are..  Meanwhile, in the main, much to the disgust of the anti-Semites, Americans support Israel.  Take a good look at the polls.  And of course being that America is so bad that is why people from all around the world would love to be able to immigrate here.


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## DCJ (Mar 15, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> BillCosby said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



Yea, of course, it is all someone else @ fault, *the guVment* turning into right wingWackO, MIC controlled paranoids has nothing to do w/ it (fat assed drama queen emoticon here)


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## rhodescholar (Mar 15, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> Perhaps Tinmore should start educating himself on the history of the Shiites and Sunnis being at each other's throats since Islam originated.  I think the Shiites in Pakistan could tell him a thing or two since they are the ones who always seem to be blown up by the Sunnis, such as the incident not too long ago when they were on a pilgramage for the Shiite holiday of Ashura.



You're trying to use facts and reason with fucking idiots, some of whom are mentally ill.  There's no point.


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## georgephillip (Mar 15, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
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Leaving aside the ethnic cleansing of American Indians and starting with Hiroshima and Nagasaki: 

"Within the first two to four months of the bombings, the acute effects killed 90,000166,000 people in Hiroshima and 60,00080,000 in Nagasaki, with roughly half of the deaths in each city occurring on the first day."

Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These war crimes occurred after Japan privately conveyed a willingness to surrender with only one condition according to entries in Truman's diary. Harry also instigated the killing/maiming of millions of Koreans:

"    Total civilians killed/wounded: 2.5 million (est.)[2]
    South Korea: 990,968
    373,599 killed[2]
    229,625 wounded[2]
    387,744 abducted/missing[2]
    North Korea: 1,550,000 (est.)[2]

Korean War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You may recall Iraqis weren't killing each other on the same scale or questioning their personal religious affiliations before March 2003. When a pair of rich draft dodgers lied about mushroom clouds and simplistic fools fell into lockstep. (Were you one?)

One in four Iraqis who was whole, alive and "free" in March of 2003 is currently dead, displaced, maimed or incarcerated. Who got rich from that war crime? Maybe you can explain why anyone should profit from war after the first innocent civilian dies? 

As the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet, US elites profit from arm sales in places like Mexico, Colombia, Nigeria and other hell holes where western corporations profit from mass murders committed by Muslims and Christians alike.

I wonder if you care...


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 15, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



You should ask the North Koreans if we were wrong to enter the war.

The ones who haven't starved to death.


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## georgephillip (Mar 15, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> George , so basically your argument is that Muslims killing Muslims is OK as long as the Americans kill more Muslims ?
> The logic of this argument is kind of lame ...
> Also I would like to see proof of Americans killing the most people in the last century.


Americans are killing Muslims for money thousands of miles from the US, and many of the Muslims killed on behalf of other (richer) Muslims are killed with US supplied weapons. If the US did not consider Middle Eastern oil "the greatest strategic prize in history", much of the killing would not be happening, imho.

It's possible Stalin and Mao killed more human beings than the US has over the past century (if you don't count American Indians); however, Stalin and Mao didn't do their killing in Indochina or Iraq or Wounded Knee.

If we're going to rationally discuss how many people the US military has killed in the last century, we will first have to agree on what sources we consider to be credible. Starting with Korea and Vietnam, there's a huge range of casualty figures.


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## georgephillip (Mar 15, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


*Let's ask Yuh Woon-Hyung:*

"*Yuh Woon-Hyung (*May 25, 1886 &#8211; July 19, 1947) was a Korean politician who argued that *Korean independence was essential to world peace*, and a reunification activist who struggled for the independent reunification of Korea since its national division in 1945.

"His pen-name was Mongyang (&#47805;&#50577;; &#22818;&#38525, the Chinese characters for 'dream' and 'light.' 

"*He is rare among politicians in modern Korean history in that he is revered in both South and North Korea."*

Yuh Woon-Hyung - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## georgephillip (Mar 15, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...


Christian$ are killing other Christian$ for money.
Do you see that as an improvement?


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## georgephillip (Mar 15, 2012)

BillCosby said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > *Less than half of young US Jews in a 2007 poll answered that question with a "yes."*
> ...


Perhaps these young people were voting for a democratic Israel as opposed to a Jewish Israel.

A change of that magnitude would not happen without sufficient incentive:

"If international civil society is serious about urgently ending Israel&#8217;s violations of Palestinian rights, including ending the occupation, then suspension of SWIFT transactions to and from Israeli banks offers an instrument to help bring about a peaceful resolution of an intractable conflict..."

SWIFT (Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication ) based in Belgium could play the same role today that New York banks played when sanctions were applied to South Africa.

"SWIFT links 8,740 financial institutions in 209 countries. Without access to SWIFT and its interbank payment network, countries are unable either to pay for imports or to receive payment for exports. *In short, no payment &#8212; no trade*."

Terry Crawford-Browne: To end the occupation, cripple Israeli banks | Israeli Occupation Archive


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## Hossfly (Mar 15, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> BillCosby said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


SWIFT got Iran today.Heard about that,George?


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## georgephillip (Mar 15, 2012)

Hadn't heard, Hoss.
What was SWIFT's justification?


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## Hossfly (Mar 15, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Hadn't heard, Hoss.
> What was SWIFT's justification?


It just happened a short while ago and SWIFT said it was because of Iran was aiding Syria.They wanted to cut Iran's money supply.


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## Jos (Mar 16, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hadn't heard, Hoss.
> ...





> in February 2012, the U.S. Senate Banking Committee unanimously approved sanctions against SWIFT aimed at pressuring the Belgian financial telecommunications network to terminate its ties with blacklisted Iranian banks. Expelling Iranian banks from SWIFT would potentially deny Iran access to billions of dollars in revenue


Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


> SWIFT provides the network that enables financial institutions worldwide to send and receive information about financial transactions in a secure, standardised and reliable environment.


SWIFT - SWIFT responds to recent Press Coverage


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## georgephillip (Mar 16, 2012)

"It is important to note that SWIFT is overseen directly by the G10 central banks, including the Federal Reserve and the European Central Bank...

"Indeed, SWIFT has been a vital instrument in the global battle against terrorist financing, cooperating with relevant enforcement agencies in the United States and the European Union..."

*Lucky thing there are no financial terrorists at the Fed or ECB.*

SWIFT - SWIFT responds to recent Press Coverage


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## Jos (Mar 16, 2012)

Swift banning Iran from its network that "enables financial institutions worldwide to send and receive information about financial transactions in a secure, standardized and reliable environment"

is on Par with Hotmail.com banning your Email account with them,  the Iranians will just use another way of messaging, as for payment, would you prefer US Fed  paper notes or Iranian Gold coin?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 16, 2012)

Jos said:


> Swift banning Iran from its network that "enables financial institutions worldwide to send and receive information about financial transactions in a secure, standardized and reliable environment"
> 
> is on Par with Hotmail.com banning your Email account with them,  the Iranians will just use another way of messaging, as for payment, would you prefer US Fed  paper notes or Iranian Gold coin?



Yeah, Iran's trading partners are going to pay them with gold.


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## DCJ (Mar 16, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> BillCosby said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



IMHO Israel is pretty democratic...  They have a few million ppl, & many parties to pick from, we have over 300 million ppl & have only two choices-both bad IMO........

There are many voices of discontent, unlike here, the peace movement is live & well.....  But the right control the show...........

There are many voices of discontent here as well & valid criticism of the _regime,_.....


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## Jos (Mar 17, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> > Swift banning Iran from its network that "enables financial institutions worldwide to send and receive information about financial transactions in a secure, standardized and reliable environment"
> ...



Try to keep up
Iran ready to be paid in gold, national currencies for oil &mdash; RT

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17203132


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## georgephillip (Mar 17, 2012)

"Conn Hallinan, a columnist at the Foreign Policy in Focus magazine, says the West's concern over Iran's nuclear program is *merely a pretext to take control of its vast energy resources*.

&#8220;'I think the nuclear bomb is really in many ways a smokescreen. This is not about nuclear weapons,' he told RT. 'If Iran were to use nuclear weapons, say against Israel, it would be an act of national suicide.'

"Instead, the real concern for the West, Hallinan added, is Iran&#8217;s independent politics in the Middle East, as well as the eagerness among Western countries to control energy resources.

&#8220;The 1979 revolution in Iran essentially removed the second-largest..."

'Iranian oil - not nukes - bothers the West' &mdash; RT


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 17, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> "Conn Hallinan, a columnist at the Foreign Policy in Focus magazine, says the West's concern over Iran's nuclear program is *merely a pretext to take control of its vast energy resources*.
> 
> 'I think the nuclear bomb is really in many ways a smokescreen. This is not about nuclear weapons,' he told RT. 'If Iran were to use nuclear weapons, say against Israel, it would be an act of national suicide.'
> 
> ...


Opinions are not factual evidence... 
All you have here is hearsay.
Many theories are out there, doesn't mean that all of them are true.


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## georgephillip (Mar 17, 2012)

*Go tell Mossad:*

"On July 23, 2011, a 35-year-old Iranian electrical engineering student named Darioush Rezaeinejad was gunned down as he and his wife, who was also wounded in the attack, *waited for their child in front of a kindergarten in Tehran.*

"Israel has never denied that it was behind that assassination, and two senior US officials have confirmed to NBC news that the accusation by Ali Larijani - a senior adviser to Iran's supreme leader Ali Khamenei - that Israel's Mossad had used the Mujahideen E. Khalq (MEK) to carry out the killing of Iranian scientists was essentially accurate."

How Mossad Justified Its Murder of an Innocent Iranian Electrical Engineer | Truthout


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## Hossfly (Mar 17, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> *Go tell Mossad:*
> 
> "On July 23, 2011, a 35-year-old Iranian electrical engineering student named Darioush Rezaeinejad was gunned down as he and his wife, who was also wounded in the attack, *waited for their child in front of a kindergarten in Tehran.*
> 
> ...


Nobody is really sure if the Kurds weren't involved in any of the killings of the scientists.  After all the Kurds want their own state, and Iran is one of the countries against this.  While Georgie is concerned with the Mossad and what it might have done, I doubt if he is concerned with all those young Iranian women who have been thrown into prison there for protesting against the current regime, and who are being raped the night before they are slated to be killed.  Does Georgie even know that in his own hometown a section in West Los Angeles is being considered to be named for the young woman Neda who was gunned down in the street in Tehran.  Has Georgie even been paying attention to the Iranians of all religions who have protested in front of the Federal Building against the current regime. U.S. band tunes for Neda. - Free Online Library


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 18, 2012)

> "Israel has never denied that it was behind that assassination...


*georgephillip *
Since when not denying something , and admitting something is the same thing ?

Another point: You condemn the Mossad for allegedly wounding the engineers wife.
However you don't seem to mind when Hamas kills 3 Palestinian children while trying to assassinate *Bahaa Balusha*. 



> *Bahaa Balusha*: I have left behind something very great in Gaza.  My son Salam, three years old. My son Ahmed, five years old. And Usama,  eight years old. The terrorists killed them before my eyes when I wanted  to pick them up from school.


Interview with Fatah's Intelligence Coordinator: "It Will Be A Hot Summer" - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

A bit hypocritical in my opinion...


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 18, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> > "Israel has never denied that it was behind that assassination...
> 
> 
> *georgephillip *
> ...



Bahaa Balusha is a traitor who was part of the attempted coup against the elected government in Palestine. His car was shot up because he was thought to be inside.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 18, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > > "Israel has never denied that it was behind that assassination...
> ...



That's okay, according to tinnie, civilian children are acceptable targets.


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## Douger (Mar 18, 2012)

*"Do You Consider the Destruction of Israel a "Personal Tragedy?"*
Nah. I'd consider it the greatest day in the history of modern "civilization".
Once those parasites are extinct the world can live in peace. Once they're attacked they'll attempt to completely destroy Europe ( their promise) in retaliation which will result in a world wide extermination campaign.
They'll find out what "chosen" really means.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 18, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...



I didn't say that, but that's OK, you are like that.


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## toomuchtime_ (Mar 18, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Of course you have.  You have specified that Jews living in the West Bank are legitimate targets for Arab terrorists and Jews living in Sderot are legitimate targets for Arab terrorists.  That would make cutting the throat of a Jewish baby in its crib, as Arab terrorists did recently at Itamar, an honorable thing to do in your eyes.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 18, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



A bomb, which may have been planted by Jewish extremists, exploded in a West Bank school playground yesterday, injuring 20 Palestinian children. 

Ismail Salah, the school's headmaster, said the explosion tore through a classroom for 16-year-old boys as they returned from a midday recess. 
--------------
Last year, a bomb planted by the group in an east Jerusalem school playground injured eight children. 
-------------------
In 2001, three members of a Palestinian family, including a two-month-old boy, were killed when Jewish militants sprayed a van with bullets in the West Bank. Witnesses said the killers escaped through an Israeli army checkpoint. 
---------------
Playground bombing injures 20 Palestinians | World news | The Guardian


----------



## Wolverine1984 (Mar 18, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > > "Israel has never denied that it was behind that assassination...
> ...



I see , so the shoot first ask questions later is the official legal first step in the Hamas handbook of apprehending lawbreakers, right ?

He is a traitor ? Really ? Did the court find him guilty of treason ? 
What evidence was brought to prove that fact ? 

You argue about Israel not following legal proceedings ,while Hamas shoot Fatah on the street without any consideration of legal proceedings ... Thats Hypocrisy at it's best.

Great many of Fatah men where executed by Hamas.
How many of them got the to speak to their lawyer ?
When Hamas held them captive before execution , did they have an arrest warrant for them ? Did they have proof beyond all reasonable doubt that those men are guilty of the crimes they are accused of ?
Did they hold a trial ? 

The answer for all those questions is no. They just rounded them up, blind folded them , told them to lie on the ground and emptied two AK-47 magazines on them.
Yet you have the audacity to speak about how "Administrative arrests are illegal in Palestine".


----------



## toomuchtime_ (Mar 18, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



There you go again.  It's all right with you for Arab terrorists to slaughter Jewish children if you don't like where their parents live but you are outraged by rumors that Arab children may have been killed by Israeli extremists.


----------



## Ropey (Mar 18, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1ct-meb6U0]Raid on Entebbe - YouTube[/ame]

Israel is recreated and strong.  I consider the creation of Israel as a personal blessing from G-d and that the sustaining of Israel is my personal duty.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 18, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...



Fatah (remember they lost the elections) was attempting to regain their losses at the point of a gun. When people are shooting at you it is not a good time to get a warrant.

The war was started by Fatah and they lost.


----------



## intelectaltruth (Mar 18, 2012)

Tragedy hell.   Proof that in the end truth and justice always win.

Jews are like some sort of disease running from host to host, till they are kicked out and sent to the next victim.


----------



## Ropey (Mar 18, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydwxy9yqhzM]Israel[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Mar 18, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > *Go tell Mossad:*
> ...


No one who isn't an indoctrinated slave can doubt the US is building a network of military bases in Afghanistan designed to send a very simple message to Iran, Russia, and China; the US will be in this neighborhood for a long, long time. Most of the crimes being committed in Iran today stem from a similar act of hubris committed by the US in 1953:

"(Mohammad) Mosaddegh (Prime Minister of Iran) was removed from power in a coup on 19 August 1953, organised and carried out by the United States CIA at the request of the British MI6 which chose Iranian General Fazlollah Zahedi to succeed Mosaddegh.[2]"

If you have the slightest interest in enhancing human rights in the Middle East and Africa, you can start by changing the behavior of the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet.

Mohammad Mosaddegh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## georgephillip (Mar 18, 2012)

BillCosby said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > BillCosby said:
> ...


Elected "leaders" in Israel and US represent the richest 1% of their populations at the expense of the majority; other people's money and other people's blood pretty well sums up their moral calculus. I don't see any US solution that doesn't require millions of voters to FLUSH as many incumbents from the US Congress as possible next November. If hundreds of DC Republicans AND Democrats lose their jobs in a single news cycle, Change and Hope won't be far behind.


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 18, 2012)

Douger said:


> *"Do You Consider the Destruction of Israel a "Personal Tragedy?"*
> Nah. I'd consider it the greatest day in the history of modern "civilization".
> Once those parasites are extinct the world can live in peace. Once they're attacked they'll attempt to completely destroy Europe ( their promise) in retaliation which will result in a world wide extermination campaign.
> They'll find out what "chosen" really means.


It looks like another anti-Semitic cockroach has crawled out of the woodwork.  It's amazing how naive these anti-Semites are thinking that if there was no Israel there would be world peace.  Those radical Muslims just love Dhimwits as this one.  They find them such useful tools.


----------



## Wolverine1984 (Mar 18, 2012)

intelectaltruth said:


> tragedy hell.   Proof that in the end truth and justice always win.
> 
> Jews are like some sort of disease running from host to host, till they are kicked out and sent to the next victim.



intelectaltruth eh ? 
Doesn't look like you are either one ... 




p f tinmore said:


> wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > p f tinmore said:
> ...



What does it matter who started or who lost, we are talking about legal conduct.

"When people are shooting at you it is not a good time to get a warrant."
So the children of bahaa balusha where shooting at the Hamas assassins when they were killed right ?  

In addition many alleged Fatah people were held captive and then executed - they were not shooting back and did not offer resistance. 

Did those prisoners get a trial ? Where their alleged guilt proven ? 


LiveLeak.com - Fatah leader execution caught in video tape


----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 18, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> intelectaltruth said:
> 
> 
> > tragedy hell.   Proof that in the end truth and justice always win.
> ...



You shouldn't start a war if you do not want to get shot.


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 18, 2012)

intelectaltruth said:


> Tragedy hell.   Proof that in the end truth and justice always win.
> 
> Jews are like some sort of disease running from host to host, till they are kicked out and sent to the next victim.


Did ya get lost on the way to your Bundhalle?


----------



## georgephillip (Mar 18, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> > "Israel has never denied that it was behind that assassination...
> 
> 
> *georgephillip *
> ...


*"06/18/2007*

"Interview with Fatah's Intelligence Coordinator
"'It Will Be A Hot Summer"'

"The Hamas coup in Gaza was directed by a foreign al-Qaeda commando, according to the one of the highest-ranking intelligence officers of the Palestinian Authority. Bahaa Balusha believes Hamas will now be torn apart by internal conflicts. '*In four months they'll be gone,*' he told SPIEGEL ONLINE.

Has it ever occurred to you Hamas and Fatah would've never come into existence if one-third of Palestinians hadn't imposed a Jewish state by force of arms upon their neighbors in 1948?

You and Hoss need to help clean your own styes before worrying about others.

Interview with Fatah's Intelligence Coordinator: "It Will Be A Hot Summer" - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 18, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



You had no problem with your terrorist buddies firing anti-tank rockets at an Israeli school bus full of children. But that's okay, you're like that.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 18, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > intelectaltruth said:
> ...



Tell that to Yassin.


----------



## Wolverine1984 (Mar 18, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...


And to the Hamas !


----------



## Jos (Mar 18, 2012)

Ropey said:


> Raid on Entebbe - YouTube
> 
> Israel is recreated and strong.  I consider the creation of Israel as a personal blessing from G-d and that the sustaining of Israel is my personal duty.





> *Documents claim Israel aided Entebbe hijack*





> The Israeli secret service and radical Palestinians may have engineered the hijacking of an Air France plane that flew to Entebbe in Uganda, according to a claim in newly released government documents.
> 
> This extraordinary interpretation on the Entebbe raid was cited by a British diplomat, DH Colvin of the Paris embassy, in June 30 1976 as the world was transfixed by the hostage crisis in Entebbe, which features in the recent film The Last King of Scotland.
> 
> In a document released by the National Archives, Mr Colvin, citing an unnamed contact at the Euro-Arab parliamentary association, wrote: "According to his information, the hijack was the work of the PFLP [Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine], with help from the Israeli secret service, the Shin Beit."


Documents claim Israel aided Entebbe hijack | World news | guardian.co.uk

U.K. file on Entebbe contains claim that Israel behind hijacking - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 18, 2012)

Jos said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > Raid on Entebbe - YouTube
> ...


The Guardian and Ha'aretz? Supermarket Rags.


----------



## Jos (Mar 18, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> The Guardian and Ha'aretz? Supermarket Rags.



You all got a supermarket near the trailer park?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 18, 2012)

Jos said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > Raid on Entebbe - YouTube
> ...



Oh, a claim by an unnamed contact.

Well, that certainly proves it.

I heard it was Arafat's gang of gay lovers who highjacked the plane.


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 18, 2012)

Jos said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > The Guardian and Ha'aretz? Supermarket Rags.
> ...


Believe it or not, down here in West by God Virginia, we even got indoor outhouses.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 18, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



If you aren't using your left hand to wipe, Jos thinks you're an infidel.


----------



## Wolverine1984 (Mar 18, 2012)

All they say in your Haretz story is 


> Newly released British documents *contain a claim* by an *unnamed* *contact  *that the Shin Bet security service collaborated with the Popular Front  for the Liberation of Palestine to hijack the June 1976 flight from  Israel that was diverted to Entebbe, Uganda, the BBC reported Friday.


Since when a claim is evidence ? 
People claim they saw Elvis\Jesus in a mall, doesn't mean it really happened.


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 18, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Jos said:
> ...


I only use my right hand when I don't have the correct amount of stones.


----------



## Jos (Mar 19, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Jos said:
> ...



Muslims don't use their left hand to wipe, they use it to wash, with water


----------



## Jos (Mar 19, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> All they say in your Haretz story is
> 
> 
> > Newly released British documents *contain a claim* by an *unnamed* *contact  *that the Shin Bet security service collaborated with the Popular Front  for the Liberation of Palestine to hijack the June 1976 flight from  Israel that was diverted to Entebbe, Uganda, the BBC reported Friday.
> ...



Elvis posts on here and im having a coffee with Jesus tomorrow, true story


----------



## Wolverine1984 (Mar 19, 2012)

Jos said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > All they say in your Haretz story is
> ...


Very Good ! 
When in doubt/don't have an argument or cornered -> Deflect.

Doesn't change the fact that your source is nothing more then hearsay and speculations ...


----------



## Jos (Mar 19, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> Doesn't change the fact that your source is nothing more then hearsay and speculations ...



In 30 years from now rumors that israel existed will be nothing "more then hearsay and speculations"


----------



## Wolverine1984 (Mar 19, 2012)

Another deflection ... Thank you for proving my point.


----------



## Ariux (Mar 19, 2012)

The destruction of Israel wouldn't be a tragedy at all.  It would be a blessing for the world.  The US could save billions in foreign aid, bring the troops home from the middle east, and we could start shaping domestic and foreign policy on what's best for us.


----------



## Jos (Mar 19, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> Another deflection ... Thank you for proving my point.



This thread is about "Do You Consider the Destruction of Israel a "Personal Tragedy?"
So hardly a deflection, but then again if I needed your opinion I could always scrape it off my shoe


----------



## Wolverine1984 (Mar 19, 2012)

Ariux said:


> The destruction of Israel wouldn't be a tragedy at all.  It would be a blessing for the world.  The US could save billions in foreign aid, bring the troops home from the middle east, and we could start shaping domestic and foreign policy on what's best for us.




What are you talking about ? 
The US could bring troops back home from the middle east ? Why is it Israel's fault that there are US troops in the middle east , and how does Israel keeps them from returning home ?

"The US could save billions in foreign aid" -The aid to Israel is about 5% from the total annual amount of US foreign aid , so even though US could save billions this sum is negligible overall.


----------



## Jos (Mar 19, 2012)

Why doesn't israel Pay the US for protection?


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 19, 2012)

Ariux said:


> The destruction of Israel wouldn't be a tragedy at all.  It would be a blessing for the world.  The US could save billions in foreign aid, bring the troops home from the middle east, and we could start shaping domestic and foreign policy on what's best for us.


With Ariux's mind set, he probably wishes that Hitler finished the job.  He would never think that perhaps the civilized world would think it a blessing if all the Muslim extremists were removed from this world.  They would breathe a sigh of relief.  After all, it isn't Israel going around to several areas of the world murdering innocent people.  I wonder if the "brilliant" Ariux can tell us just what our troops in Afghanistan have to do with Israel.


----------



## Wolverine1984 (Mar 19, 2012)

Jos said:


> Why doesn't israel Pay the US for protection?


Against whom ?


----------



## ima (Mar 21, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> > The destruction of Israel wouldn't be a tragedy at all.  It would be a blessing for the world.  The US could save billions in foreign aid, bring the troops home from the middle east, and we could start shaping domestic and foreign policy on what's best for us.
> ...



We need Israel to keep the arabs busy while we take all their oil.

Our troops are in Afghanistan because we were trying to get Osama bin Laden who said that 9/11 was retaliation for what's going on in Palestine. There's a youtube video of him saying exactly that, look it up.


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 21, 2012)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Ariux said:
> ...


I'll do it little mama.Although I know what bin Ladin said.


----------



## Wolverine1984 (Mar 21, 2012)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Ariux said:
> ...



He said that Israel wants to expand and control ALL of the Arab countries around it ...
 Yeah right ... Gaza and the West Bank are a thorn in Israels side , they would gladly give it to Jordan or Egypt ... the problem is no one wants them ... 
This crazy guy suggest that Israel wants to add to it's problems by conquering all the bordering failed countries around it... . 



LOL you actually think that Muslims care about Palestinians ? 

Before 67 The West Bank was occupied by Jordan , and the Gaza Strip was occupied by Egypt ... 
NO ONE , called it an occupation ... especially not the Palestinians. And not Jordan nor Egypt thought of giving them a country in that area ... The Palestinians didn't scream occupation then ... how come ?


----------



## georgephillip (Mar 21, 2012)

Possibly because their children were not being murdered for sport by Jordanians and Egyptians.
Unlike their current occupier.


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 21, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Possibly because their children were not being murdered for sport by Jordanians and Egyptians.
> Unlike their current occupier.


Could the truth be, Georgie, that those Arabs didn't care that their fellow Arabs (Jordanians and Egyptians) were governing the areas, but that they could not stand to see the Jews governing them?  My goodness, hasn't it sunk into your head yet that the Arabs (actually those who are Muslims) want the entire Middle East under their control, and they are having a fit that the Jews are governing one tiny parcel of land compared to the enormous acreage which the Arabs have?  Have you actually ever seen a map of the Arab world with Israel being such a small dot on the map?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 21, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Possibly because their children were not being murdered for sport by Jordanians and Egyptians.
> Unlike their current occupier.



If they keep putting their kids near their rocket launchers, their kids are going to keep getting killed when Israel fires back. It's that simple.


----------



## Sunni Man (Mar 21, 2012)

Ariux said:


> The destruction of Israel wouldn't be a tragedy at all.  It would be a blessing for the world.  The US could save billions in foreign aid, bring the troops home from the middle east, and we could start shaping domestic and foreign policy on what's best for us.


You are 100% correct.

I am sick of U.S foreign policy being based on what's good for Israel and not what's best for America.


----------



## georgephillip (Mar 21, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Possibly because their children were not being murdered for sport by Jordanians and Egyptians.
> ...


Does your definition of "one tiny parcel of land" equate to all the land between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River, Hossie? There are many more Arabs in the Middle East than Jews. In 1948 one third of the citizens of Palestine inflicted a Jewish state on their neighbors by force of arms. That historical fact is what most of the world is waking to today.

Btw, do you happen to know the ratio of Jewish voters in the US compared to the ratio of Jewish money supplied in US elections?


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 21, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


As I've stated before, 6 million Jews have 1.5 billion Arabs surrounded and thats not a joke.

As for your question about ratio, I trust ZOG to attend to the small details. That ain't a joke either.


----------



## Ariux (Mar 21, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> Why is it Israel's fault that there are US troops in the middle east , and how does Israel keeps them from returning home ?



US troops are in the middle-east for Israel.  There are lot of Zionists in high places in the US.



> "The US could save billions in foreign aid" -The aid to Israel is about 5% from the total annual amount of US foreign aid , so even though US could save billions this sum is negligible overall.



Israel gets more foreign aid than anyone else.  But, that's not even half the story.  The US gives lots of foreign aid to nearby countries to buy them off.  Egypt and Jordan each get billions from the US.


----------



## georgephillip (Mar 21, 2012)

Do you have a ZOG link?


----------



## Sunni Man (Mar 21, 2012)

Israel's size compared to other countries that surround it means nothing.

A tiny but deadly parasite can kill an animal or person that is a thousand times larger.

Israel is just such a parasite in the Middle East.


----------



## Ariux (Mar 21, 2012)

ima said:


> Our troops are in Afghanistan because we were trying to get Osama bin Laden who said that 9/11 was retaliation for what's going on in Palestine. There's a youtube video of him saying exactly that, look it up.



The Taliban offered to turn Osama over to the US.  They said let's negotiate the handover and Bush infamously replied, "We don't negotiate with terrorists or those who harbor terrorists."  The Afghanistan war was never about getting Osama or retaliating for 9-11.  But, yes, 9-11 was in retaliation for US bloody services for Israel.


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 21, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Do you have a ZOG link?


It's in here somewhere George. Knock yourself out.

Wikileaks - Wikileaks


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 21, 2012)

Ariux said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > Why is it Israel's fault that there are US troops in the middle east , and how does Israel keeps them from returning home ?
> ...


I think most of us realize by now that you resent every penny that is given to Israel, but care not at all about the enormous amount of aid that America gives to other countries in the Muslim world even if they hate us.  Do you really think Pakistanis love Americans even though we give them billions and many of the Pakistanis give information to the terrorists which murder American soldiers?  How come anti-Semites like you never suggest that instead of the U.S. giving aid to Muslim countries such as Somali to feed their starving populations, oil-rich gulf states are asked that they be the ones to help their Muslim brothers.  By the way, knowing that you don't want to be a hypocrite, I hope that you never use one of the technological or medical advances which are coming out of Israel.  Can you imagine how much more could be accomplished there for the benefit of mankind if the Israelis didn't have to spend so much of their budget on defense needs?


----------



## Ariux (Mar 21, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> I think most of us realize by now that you resent every penny that is given to Israel, but care not at all about the enormous amount of aid that America gives to other countries in the Muslim world even if they hate us.



I object every penny the US gives in foreign aid.  And, I think you have your head in a dark hole if you think most US foreign aid to Muslim countries is for any reason other than paying them to go along with Israel-centered foreign policy.



> Do you really think Pakistanis love Americans even though we give them billions



Do you think Israelis love Americans, even thought Israel couldn't continue to exist without American welfare and support.



> By the way, knowing that you don't want to be a hypocrite, I hope that you never use one of the technological or medical advances which are coming out of Israel.  Can you imagine how much more could be accomplished there for the benefit of mankind if the Israelis didn't have to spend so much of their budget on defense needs?



Israel is a very small contributor to medical advancement.

Biomedical research spending by country:

United States of America . $100 / 76 Euro (EUR) per citizen
United Kingdom .. $30 / 23 Euro per citizen
Canada . $30 / 23 Euro per citizen
France .. $15 / 12 Euro per citizen
South Korea  $13 / 10 Euro per citizen
Germany .. $11 / 8 Euro per citizen
Japan .. $9 / 7 Euro per citizen
Russia  $2 / 1.5 Euro per citizen

Maybe Israel's absence is an oversight?


----------



## ima (Mar 22, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



Why wouldn't muslims care about Pallies? They're the tangible reason to demonize Israel. Buddy, please make some sense.

Osama never said Israel wants to take everyone over, you're the cuckoo.

Egypt never kicked them off of their lands and stole their houses... nor did they surround them with tanks and barbed wire. They also didn't have checkpoints every 20 feet. And last but not least, Egyptians aren't Jewish.


----------



## Douger (Mar 22, 2012)

I wish I was a toddler. By the time I reached 80 I could Google IsNtReal and get "no results found" Google Earth, tambien.


----------



## Wolverine1984 (Mar 22, 2012)

Ariux said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > I think most of us realize by now that you resent every penny that is given to Israel, but care not at all about the enormous amount of aid that America gives to other countries in the Muslim world even if they hate us.
> ...


Why would the US care if failed countries go along with their policies or not ?



> > Do you really think Pakistanis love Americans even though we give them billions
> 
> 
> Do you think Israelis love Americans, even thought Israel couldn't continue to exist without American welfare and support.


Really ? 
US aid to Israel is about 1.2 % out of Israeli GDP ...Couldn't continue excising ? Hardly.



> > By the way, knowing that you don't want to be a hypocrite, I hope that you never use one of the technological or medical advances which are coming out of Israel.  Can you imagine how much more could be accomplished there for the benefit of mankind if the Israelis didn't have to spend so much of their budget on defense needs?
> 
> 
> Israel is a very small contributor to medical advancement.
> ...


I don't know where you got you info from as you conveniently didn't post a link... 

After a quick Google search I found that Israel is #17 out of the 72 leading countries in expenditures on R&D. 

Israel spent 9.4 Billion $ on R&D in 2011, that is about 4.2% of it's annual GDP.
Making Israel the *largest spender on R&D* as a percentage of GDP. 

In layman's terms , Israel spends the* largest amount* of its income on research and development. 
(It should be also noted that Israel is the youngest country on the list)

List of countries by research and development spending - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Wolverine1984 (Mar 22, 2012)

ima said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...





> Why wouldn't muslims care about Pallies? They're the tangible reason to demonize Israel. Buddy, please make some sense.


Well you prove my point for me ... What you are basically saying is that Muslims don't care about Palestinians , all they care about is the demonization of Israel. If Palestinians were dying at the hand of an Arab state ... No other Arab country would care ... Because speaking up would not serve the purpose of demonizing Israel. 



> Osama never said Israel wants to take everyone over, you're the cuckoo.


Really ? A general rule of thumb is to check your facts before running your mouth...



> ...We know at least one reason behind the symbolic participation of the Western forces and that is to support the *Jewish and Zionist plans for expansion of what is called the Great Israel.*  Surely, their presence is not out of concern over their interests in the region.  ...  Their presence has no meaning save one and that is to offer support to the Jews in Palestine who are in need of their Christian brothers *to achieve full control over the Arab Peninsula which they intend to make an important part of the so called Greater Israel.*  ...
> Read more: Who Is Bin Laden? - Interview With Osama Bin Laden (in May 1998) | Hunting Bin Laden | FRONTLINE | PBS
> ​





> Egypt never kicked them off of their lands and stole their houses... nor  did they surround them with tanks and barbed wire. They also didn't  have checkpoints every 20 feet. And last but not least, Egyptians aren't  Jewish.


Most of what what you described has not happened in 1948 ...It would be wise to point out that there was no Islamic Jihad on Egypt and Jordan as a result of their occupation of those areas ...  

However thank you for proving my point again , "*Egyptians aren't Jewish*" thats the whole issue here ... 

Right now Palestinians are treated like shit in the whole Arab world , yet no one cares especially not the Arab world ... But when Israel treats Palestinians badly then it's a whole different story ... Why ? Precisely because of the reason you stated ... "Arabs aren't Jewish". 
As long as you are an Arab you can treat Arabs however you want and no one would care ...(Take a look at Syria) however if you are not an Arab , than it's a different matter entirely...
Hypocrisy at it's best.


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 22, 2012)

Ariux said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > I think most of us realize by now that you resent every penny that is given to Israel, but care not at all about the enormous amount of aid that America gives to other countries in the Muslim world even if they hate us.
> ...


Their medical research funding is probably lower because they develop projects much more quickly than the others. Ever stop to consider that?


----------



## ima (Mar 23, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...



The Obama quote is a long way from taking everyone in the region over.

I think that events in Libya, Egypt and Syria show that people care even when it's arab on arab, except of course when it comes to women, them you can stone, rape... as much as you want in the arab world and no one will care. Not sure why that is.

And as far as the Palestinians go, it's jews inflicting pretty much all the punishment, what are other arabs doing to them?

As for Egyptians aren't Jewish, well, religion ain't pretty, it's all about everyone off in their separate corners believing their own myths and then fighting everyone else because they each have their own made up stories. Morons.


----------



## docmauser1 (Mar 26, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> _Israel's greatest mistake occurred in 1948 when one-third of Palestine's citizens imposed a Jewish state by force of arms on a majority of their fellow Palestinians. Face it, fools, Israel was created to buy western weapons largely paid for by US tax dollars._


Hilarious drivel!


----------



## docmauser1 (Mar 26, 2012)

ima said:


> _And as far as the Palestinians go, it's jews inflicting pretty much all the punishment, what are other arabs doing to them?_


Getting "punished" is their occupation.


----------



## ima (Mar 26, 2012)

docmauser1 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > _And as far as the Palestinians go, it's jews inflicting pretty much all the punishment, what are other arabs doing to them?_
> ...



Wrong, they spend their time trying to get their land back. Wouldn't you?


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## Ropey (Mar 26, 2012)

Ariux said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > I think most of us realize by now that you resent every penny that is given to Israel, but care not at all about the enormous amount of aid that America gives to other countries in the Muslim world even if they hate us.
> ...



Proof of this oversight.  I see no cite of source.


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 26, 2012)

ima said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



How do you figure that ?


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## JStone (Mar 26, 2012)

> Gaza massacre



Gaza massacre perpetrated by Gazans.  

*"We Desire Death Like You Desire Life"*[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWIDZ7Jpdqg]Hamas - "We desire death like you desire life" - YouTube[/ame]

*"Palestinian Children Created To Fertilize the Land With their Blood"*
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb1kIYk22d8]"PALESTINIAN KIDS ARE "FERTILIZER" CREATED TO SATURATE OUR PURE LAND WITH THEIR BLOOD" FATAH - YouTube[/ame]


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## JStone (Mar 26, 2012)

> Quote: Originally Posted by ima
> Wrong, they spend their time trying to get their land back. Wouldn't you?



If it's the fakestinians' land, why have they never created a country, as the Jews created Israel? 

Fakestinians are merely rebranded Arabs who invaded Israel, the 3000 year Jewish homeland, their land would be in Saudi Arabia where the little sand rat bastards came from.

Palestine National Charter


> We, the Palestinian Arab people...
> 
> Bringing up Palestinian youth in an Arab and nationalist manner is a fundamental national duty
> 
> ...


 
Eminent Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis, Author, "The Arabs In History"...


> During the first period in Islamic history [622 AD] when Islam was an Arab religion and the Caliphate an Arab Kingdom, the term Arab came to be applied to those who spoke Arabic, were full members by descent of an Arab tribe, and who, either in person or through their ancestors, had originated in Arabia.
> Oxford University Press: The Arabs in History: Bernard Lewis


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## DCJ (Mar 26, 2012)

Sunni Man said:


> Israel's size compared to other countries that surround it means nothing.
> 
> A tiny but deadly parasite can kill an animal or person that is a thousand times larger.
> 
> Israel is just such a parasite in the Middle East.



What would you suggest or hope for those ppl born in Israel???


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## JStone (Mar 26, 2012)

> Quote: Originally Posted by Sunni Man
> Israel's size compared to other countries that surround it means nothing.
> 
> A tiny but deadly parasite can kill an animal or person that is a thousand times larger.
> ...



Your Jew Envy is on display, inferior muslime loser. 

Israel, population 5 million Jews, has produced 6 Nobel Prize Laureates for significant contributions in science and economics.

Number of Nobel Laureates in science and economics produced by 60 muslime shitholes and 1.5 billion muslime shitheads: Zero

Moses Rules.  Allah Sucks.  

Warren Buffett


> If you go to the Middle East looking for oil, you don't need to stop in Israel.  But, if you're looking for brains, for energy, for integrity, for imagination, it's the only stop you need to make


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## Sunni Man (Mar 26, 2012)

BillCosby said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Israel's size compared to other countries that surround it means nothing.
> ...


That can relocate to the land of their parents; Germany, Russia, Poland, America, etc.


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## JStone (Mar 26, 2012)

Sunni Man said:


> BillCosby said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



Your own allah that you pray to 50 times a day created Israel, ignorant motherfucker.  No 72 whores in that bordello in the sky for you, dumbass 



> Quran 17:104 And We said to the Children of Israel after him: "Dwell in the land, then, when the final and the last promise comes near [i.e. the Day of Resurrection or the descent of Christ ['Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)  on the earth]. We shall bring you altogether as mixed crowd


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## docmauser1 (Mar 26, 2012)

ima said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


Oh, not that palistanian littérature ordurière about land again. But, as luck would have it I'm here to set the facts straight:
7% of the land of the west palestine was owned by jews.
7-8% was owned by absentee landowners, arab effendi clans.
16% was owned by various churches and other foreign entities.
The remainder - what?! 70%! - was state lands, owned first by the sultan and later by the Govt of Palestine.
So, a pertinent question is due - what effin "lands" are those major illegal arab immigrants masturbating over?


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## docmauser1 (Mar 26, 2012)

Sunni Man said:


> _That can relocate to the land of their parents; Germany, Russia, Poland, America, etc._


Oh, then we may make a similar counter-suggestion that arabs move to where they came from respectively, Egypt, Lebanon, Jardon, Syria, even Algeria! As Jacob De Haas noted "In 1860, entire Algerian tribes immigrated en masse to Safed. The Muslims of Safed, are mostly descended from these Moorish settlers and from Kurds that came earlier to the city." See, folks, not the first arab settlement and, certainly, not the last one.


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## JStone (Mar 26, 2012)

> Quote: Originally Posted by Sunni Man
> That can relocate to the land of their parents; Germany, Russia, Poland, America, etc.



When will you relocate to your homeland Saudi Arabia where the muslime wife beaters, child honor killers, pedophile worshippers and jihadists came from?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxAKFlpdcfc]Applause - YouTube[/ame]


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## Staidhup (Mar 26, 2012)

One had better hope Iran or someone else doesn't give it a shot or what you will have left is a Mid East that will be uninhabitable for generations. But they will have their 40 virgins, provided of course there are 40 virgins left to go around!


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## DCJ (Mar 26, 2012)

Sunni Man said:


> BillCosby said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...




????There were some pretty good reasons why their parents left those places.......  You buying them a new car & a house to live in there???

I guess even you can see that what you apply to them, could just as easily be applied to those who's parents left their land & homes in Palestine.............


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## GHook93 (Mar 26, 2012)

Sunni Man said:


> BillCosby said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...


The land of their parents is Israel dumb-fuck! The land of the Palestinian's parents is Saudi Arabia, send them there. In fact we should send a useless asshole that never didn't shit for this country, including draft dodging during 60-70s, should be shipped out also!


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## JStone (Mar 26, 2012)

BillCosby said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > BillCosby said:
> ...



Most Israeli Jews are indigenous to the region.  Jews inhabited Egypt, Syria and Iraq thousands of years before the Arab scum.  The Hebrew Bible was translated into the Greek Septuagint in Alexandria.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 27, 2012)

BillCosby said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > BillCosby said:
> ...





> ????There were some pretty good reasons why their parents left those places.......



True, but what did the Palestinians have to do with that? Why should they get bounced for what some people in Europe did?


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

Sunni Man said:


> BillCosby said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...


Why don't we relocate the Arab people to the land of their parents ? 
A bit of hypocrisy there...

If we are on the issue of hypocrisy here , isn't it interesting that between 1949 - 1967 While the West Bank and Gaza were under Jordanian and Egyptian occupations the Palestinian Arabs stood silent ? 
They never complained about being occupied , nor did they want their own country in that region. 
It's seems that the Palestinian zeal for their own country , free of occupation directly coincides with the whom is controlling "their" land.
That's hypocrisy for you.




> Israel's size compared to other countries that surround it means nothing.
> 
> A tiny but deadly parasite can kill an animal or person that is a thousand times larger.


You Muslims are so full of fear... 
Here is why Muslims suffer.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJeKS0gNz48"]Yoda: "fear leads to the dark side" - YouTube[/ame]


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 27, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > BillCosby said:
> ...





> ...between 1949 - 1967 While the West Bank and Gaza were under Jordanian and Egyptian occupations...



It is interesting that everyone recognizes that fact.

But what does that mean?


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## ima (Mar 27, 2012)

The Iranian President Imadinnerjacket had one thing right, he said that the Jews were Europe's problem and the Americans and friends had no business dumping them in Palestine at the end of WWII.
I mean, aside from that statement, the guy appears totally cookoo.


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## ima (Mar 27, 2012)

docmauser1 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > docmauser1 said:
> ...



So according to you, no individual arabs owned ANY land?

Better luck next time.


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## JStone (Mar 27, 2012)

ima said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



Er, the Turks owned the Ottoman Empire, for 400 years.

Turks are not Arabs.

Now, you know.


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## ima (Mar 27, 2012)

Sorry, JStone, I don't reply to imbeciles.

Now YOU know.


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## JStone (Mar 27, 2012)

ima said:


> Sorry, JStone, I don't reply to imbeciles.
> 
> Now YOU know.



You're allowed to be dumb.  Turks, who owned the Ottoman Empire, are not Arabs.  palestine did not exist in the Ottoman Empire.  It was merely southern Syria and governed by Damascus.


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## DCJ (Mar 27, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> BillCosby said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



I guess the British could answer that one better than I............

Often today's solutions, are tomorrows problems.......

& the ppl_ born there_ in Israel had what to do w/ that???

IMHO for a solution to be found, that all needs to be set aside......  OH, & a willingness on both of their parts for a solution.........  I don't think either side is eager for that @ this time......


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## JStone (Mar 27, 2012)

> Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
> True, but what did the Palestinians have to do with that? Why should they get bounced for what some people in Europe did?



palesteenians are an invented people.  They are merely rebranded Arabs from Saudi Arabia who invaded Israel.

*Winston Churchill, Secretary of "Palestine" During British Mandate to House of Commons, Parliamentary Debates, 23 May 1939*


> So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country [Israel] and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population.
> http://us.macmillan.com/churchillandthejews/MartinGilbert


*Tashbih Sayyed, Muslim Pakistani Scholar, Journalist, Author and Former Editor in Chief of  Our Times, Pakistan Today, and The Muslim World Today*


> Blinded by their anti-Semitism, Arabs ignore the fact that neither are they an indigenous group nor is the Jewish nationhood a new phenomenon in Palestine; the Jewish nation was born during 40 years of wandering in the Sinai more than five thousand years ago and has remained connected with Palestine ever since. &#8220;Even after the destruction of the last Jewish commonwealth in the first century, the Jewish people maintained their own autonomous political and legal institutions: the Davidic dynasty was preserved in Baghdad until the thirteenth century through the rule of the Exilarch (Resh Galuta), while the return to Zion was incorporated into the most widely practiced Jewish traditions, including the end of the Yom Kippur service and the Passover Seder, as well as in everyday prayers. Thus, Jewish historic rights were kept alive in Jewish historical consciousness.
> 
> It is a matter of record that the Arabs owe their presence in Palestine to the Ottomans who settled Muslim populations as a buffer against Bedouin attacks and Ibrahim Pasha, the Egyptian ruler who brought Egyptian colonists with his army in the 1830s. And during all those times when Arabs lived under the Ottoman rule, they never showed any desire for national independence.
> 
> ...


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## docmauser1 (Mar 27, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> _True, but what did the Palestinians have to do with that? Why should they get bounced for what some people in Europe did?_


Being in the wrong place has its disatvantages, of course, noone has been extending invitations to major arab immigrants from the hood, indeed.


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## JStone (Mar 27, 2012)

President Kennedy visited "Palestine" and saw that it was a barren wasteland.  Good thing the Jews turned the land into an oasis.  The lazy, backward, ignorant troglodyte muzzies and rabs only know how to turn everything to shit.

John F. Kennedy


> When the first Zionist conference met in 1897, Palestine was a neglected wasteland
> 
> I first saw Palestine in 1939. There the neglect and ruin left by centuries of Ottoman [Muslim] misrule were slowly being transformed by miracles of [Jewish] labor and sacrifice. But Palestine was still a land of promise in 1939, rather than a land of fulfillment. I returned in 1951 to see the grandeur of Israel
> 
> ...


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## DCJ (Mar 27, 2012)

JStone said:


> > Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
> > True, but what did the Palestinians have to do with that? Why should they get bounced for what some people in Europe did?
> 
> 
> ...




*American President visited "the western plains" and saw that it was a barren wasteland.  Good thing the Whites turned the land into an oasis.  The lazy, backward, ignorant troglodyte inJunz and savages only know how to turn everything to shit.*


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## toomuchtime_ (Mar 27, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> BillCosby said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



They weren't.  Their losses are the result of their own actions.  Arab anti semitism from the Middle Ages into the 20th century was just as pervasive and just as violent as anti semitism in eastern Europe.  Had they not responded to Jewish immigrants with hostility and violence they would have suffered no losses.  If they had accepted Partition, they would have suffered no losses.  Their problems all arose from violently expressing the anti semitism that is a core value of their culture and religion.  In eastern Europe the governments supported anti semitic violence but neither the Ottomans nor the British did in the Protectorate, so the Arabs were held accountable for their racist hate crimes but the eastern Europeans were not.


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## JStone (Mar 27, 2012)

Warren Buffett...


> We believe generally in the United States, we believe in ourselves and what a young country can achieve.  Israel, since 1948, now a major factor in commerce and in the world.  It's a smaller replica of what has been accomplished here and I think Americans admire that.  They feel good about societies that are on the move.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaN_2nFqFtI]Warren Buffet Supports the U.S.-Israel Relationship - YouTube[/ame]  

Warren Buffett


> If you go to the Middle East looking for oil, you don't need to stop in Israel.  But, if you're looking for brains, for energy, for integrity, for imagination, it's the only stop you need to make


 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbX60Pktzsk]Warren Buffet on Israel - YouTube[/ame]


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## docmauser1 (Mar 27, 2012)

ima said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


Why?! Of course, they did as mentioned above! And happily sold their land to jews too! Like, for example, Karkur, land sold to jews by Kassem Abd El Hadi of the Abd El Hadi clan of Jenin; Kfar Pinnes, Nisam Abd El Hadi sold 400 acres; etc., etc., etc., the list is rather long and is happily confirmed by the memorable words of the jordanian king Abdullah "It is made quite clear to all, both by the map drawn up by the Simpson Commission and by another compiled by the Peel Commission, that the Arabs are as prodigal in selling their land as they are in useless wailing and weeping." Doooooh!


ima said:


> _Better luck next time._


Cool, more luck is good, of course.


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## JStone (Mar 27, 2012)

docmauser1 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > docmauser1 said:
> ...



The few Rab landowners were wealthy Rabs who lived elsewhere and leased their "mulk" land to the fellaheen who were, in effect, sharecroppers.

99% of the Ottoman Empire was "miri" land owned by the Sultanate which if leased out for cultivation ultimately reverted back to the State.


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## ima (Mar 28, 2012)

docmauser1 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > docmauser1 said:
> ...



So basically you're saying that Israel's incorporation went smoothly and everyone was smiling and high fiving their camels? Hmmm. Not completely sure about that.


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## JStone (Mar 28, 2012)

ima said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



Israel was "incorporated" 3000 years ago where Jews have lived and ruled to today.  

Eminent Middle East Historian Dr. Bernard Lewis, Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton University, Author, "the Middle East: A Brief History of the Last 2000 Years, ""The Future of the Middle East," "The Shaping of the Modern Middle East," "The End of Modern History in the Middle East," Faith and Power: Religion and Politics in the Middle East"



> The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new.  This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilization and of deep-rooted and often complex identitites.  But, Palestine was not one of them.  People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or, sometimes, locality.  But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and the immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or Syrians, identifying with the larger province of Syria
> 
> The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian were lasting innovations of the British Mandate [1922-1948]


 


> The countries forming the western arm of the Fertile Crescent were called by the names of the various kingdoms and peoples that ruled and inhabited them. Of these, the most familiar, or at least the best documented, are the southern lands, known in the earlier books of the Hebrew Bible and some other ancient writings as Canaan. After the Israelite conquest and settlement, the area inhabited by them came to be described as "land of the children of Israel" or simply "land of Israel" After the breakup of the kingdom of David and Solomon in the tenth century BCE, the southern part, with Jerusalem as its capital, was called Judah, while the north was called Israel


 


> It is by now commonplace that the civilizations of the Middle East are oldest known to human history.  They go back thousands of years, much older than the civilizations of India and China, not to speak of other upstart places.  It is also interesting, though now often forgotten, that the ancient civilizations of the Middle East were almost totally obliterated and forgotten by their own people as well as by others.  Their monuments were defaced or destroyed, their languages forgotten, their scripts forgotten, their history forgotten and even their identities forgotten.
> 
> All that was known about them came from one single source, and that is Israel, the only component of the ancient Middle East to have retained their identity, their memory, their language and their books.  For a very long time, up to comparatively modern times, with rare exceptions all that was known about the ancient Middle East--the Babylonians, the Egyptians and the rest--was what the Jewish tradiiton has preserved.
> Amazon.com: Political Words and Ideas in Islam (9781558764248): Bernard Lewis: Books



*Harvard Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel* The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum



> In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.
> 
> Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.


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## Hossfly (Mar 28, 2012)

JStone said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > docmauser1 said:
> ...


[/QUOTE]
The Good Old Days.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts+Abo...dom+of+David+and+Solomon+-+1077+-+997+BCE.htm


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## georgephillip (Apr 1, 2012)

Hoss...you bumped your damn head (again)...

"Each year, the U.S. Army War College in Carlysle Barracks, Pennsylvania, invites foreign military personnel to partake in war games scenarios and seek solutions to problems and potential problems around the globe. 

"Saudi Arabia&#8217;s Lieutenant Colonel Mohammed F. Abo-Sak participated in the USAWC Class of 1997 where he developed a strategy research project he entitled '*US Involvement in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: Solution or Complication?'*

*Do you really believe the "God of the Collection Plate" created civilization?*

"Palestinians have continuously resided in Palestine since four thousand years before Christ, Abo-Sak pointed out. *Their ancestors built the cities of Jerusalem, Nablus, Jericho, Beisan, Acca and Jaffa*. 

"*The Hebrews arrived in the land between 1400-1200 B.C., and only maintained control over it during the lifetimes of King David and his son King Solomon* &#8211; a period of about 80 years. 

"The land then came under Greek and Roman rule, and was then conquered by Islam in the year 637 A.D. under the second Caliph, Omar. By that time, the Jews had already left Jerusalem, and Christianity was the dominant religion..." 

"In this century, the eastern Mediterranean became subject to British and French occupation as a result of the First World War, and Palestine came under British military occupation. The British encouraged the Arabs to gain their independence from the Ottoman Empire and promised them support if they stood on the side of the allies during the First World War. 

"However the British reneged on the promise, and British Foreign Minister Arthur James Balfour promised the International Zionists a homeland for the Jews in Palestine. At the time, the population of Palestine was comprised of 95% Arabs (both Christians and Muslims), 4% Palestinian Jews, and 1% expatriates. *The Jews owned only 2% of the land*.

*THINK AGAIN*

US Involvement in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: Solution or Complication? by Lt. Col. Mohammed F. Abo-Sak


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## Hossfly (Apr 1, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Hoss...you bumped your damn head (again)...
> 
> "Each year, the U.S. Army War College in Carlysle Barracks, Pennsylvania, invites foreign military personnel to partake in war games scenarios and seek solutions to problems and potential problems around the globe.
> 
> ...


You could be right, GP but Israel has it now and in the future and when that pigsty of a mosque and ugly-assed shrine are no more, will take back David and Solomon's old stomping grounds. Like that,don't ya?


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## georgephillip (Apr 1, 2012)

Let us ask_ Liberty_

"On June 8, 1967, US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty was suddenly and brutally attacked on the high seas in international waters by the air and naval forces of Israel. 

"The Israeli forces attacked with full knowledge that this was an American ship and lied about it. *Survivors have been forbidden for 40 years to tell their story under oath to the American public*..."

USS Liberty Memorial

How many more American lives are you prepared to sacrifice for Israel?


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 1, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Let us ask_ Liberty_
> 
> "On June 8, 1967, US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty was suddenly and brutally attacked on the high seas in international waters by the air and naval forces of Israel.
> 
> ...



And you're proud to be a bottom feeder, too, aren't you.  In other threads you have condemned the US military as traveling thousands of miles to spread death and destruction for money, and now you pretend to be concerned about dead sailors, despite the fact that these charges have been debunked over and over again by numerous investigations.  Apparently, the message you wish to convey is that the only thing you hate more than America is Israel.


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## georgephillip (Apr 1, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Let us ask_ Liberty_
> ...


*Please cite a single investigation that has debunked these charges:*

"Following their torpedo attack, the torpedo boats moved up and down the length of the ship (both the port and starboard sides), continuing their attack, raking the ship with cannon and machine gun fire.[21] 

"In Malta, crewmen were later assigned the task of counting all of the holes in the ship that were the size of a man's hand or larger. *They found a total of 861 such holes*, in addition to 'thousands' of .50 caliber machine gun holes.

"Survivors report that the torpedo boat crews swept the decks of USS Liberty with continuous machine gun fire, targeting communications equipment and any crewmembers who ventured above decks..."[22]

"Survivors also report that *the (Israeli) torpedo boat crews fired on the inflated life boats* launched by the crew after the captain gave the order 'prepare to abandon ship.'[24] This order had to be rescinded because the crew was unable to stand on the main deck without being fired upon and *the life rafts were destroyed as they were launched*.[25]

"The defenseless crew, initially unable to report their plight or summon assistance and with only themselves to rely upon, fought heroically to save themselves and their ship. 

"In recognition of their effort in this single action, they were ultimately awarded collectively *one Medal of Honor, two Navy Crosses, eleven Silver Stars, twenty Bronze Stars (with "V" device), nine Navy Commendation Medals, and two hundred and four Purple Hearts*. In addition, the ship was awarded the Presidential Unit Citation."

USS Liberty Memorial: Summary of Events 

*Thanks.*


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## Jos (Apr 1, 2012)

"Do You Consider the Destruction of Israel a "Personal Tragedy?"
No, but i do consider the the sales of popcorn will rise


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 1, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



U.S. Naval Court of Inquiry of June 1967

 Joint Chief of Staff's Report of June 1967.

 CIA Intelligence Memorandums of June 1967

Clark Clifford Report of July 1967

Senate Foreign Relations Committee Testimony during hearings of the 1967 Foreign Aid 
Authorization bill, July 1967

House Armed Services Committee Investigation of 1971

The NSA History Report of 1981



None of these inquiries found any evidence of intent on part of the Israelis, but some found evidence of negligence in not being able to identify the Liberty as  US ship.  Pro and con arguments aside, accidents do happen in wartime and friendly fire incidents are not uncommon in any war.


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## georgephillip (Apr 1, 2012)

*How many of the following are awarded for "friendly fire" actions?*

"...awarded collectively one Medal of Honor, two Navy Crosses, eleven Silver Stars, twenty Bronze Stars (with "V" device), nine Navy Commendation Medals, and two hundred and four Purple Hearts. In addition, the ship was awarded the Presidential Unit Citation."

Shortly before rescue jets arrived _Liberty's_ crew noted the following: 

"Israeli attack helicopters arrived over the ship.[32] *Survivors report that the helicopters were packed with men in combat battle dress*. The Captain of USS Liberty gave the order to 'prepare to repel boarders'[33] but the helicopters departed without attempting to land their troops.[34] "

The heroic Jews were about to put boots on deck, assassinate every US service member in cold blood, plant charges that would send the ship to the bottom with no survivors AND THEN BLAME EGYPT.

It would've worked like a charm in June of '67.

USS Liberty Memorial: Summary of Events


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## Hossfly (Apr 1, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> *How many of the following are awarded for "friendly fire" actions?*
> 
> "...awarded collectively one Medal of Honor, two Navy Crosses, eleven Silver Stars, twenty Bronze Stars (with "V" device), nine Navy Commendation Medals, and two hundred and four Purple Hearts. In addition, the ship was awarded the Presidential Unit Citation."
> 
> ...


Georgie, see if you can manage to get to a get-together of retired Naval personnel such as Port Hueneme or Point Mugu in your area where they will tell you that they consider this to be another example of friendly fire which happens all the time and that the Liberty was in the wrong place at the wrong time..  It's seems that the two-bit anti-Semites like you can't get enough of dragging up this Liberty incident over for years and years on message boards.  Maybe Georgie, being such a military strategist, could tell us why Israel would even bother boarding the ship when they could have sunk it instead by bombing it if they wanted to.


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 1, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> *How many of the following are awarded for "friendly fire" actions?*
> 
> "...awarded collectively one Medal of Honor, two Navy Crosses, eleven Silver Stars, twenty Bronze Stars (with "V" device), nine Navy Commendation Medals, and two hundred and four Purple Hearts. In addition, the ship was awarded the Presidential Unit Citation."
> 
> ...



These sailors apparently behaved well in a very challenging situation, but the fact that they received medals has nothing to do with whether Israel intentionally attacked the Liberty.  Seven US investigations found there was no evidence the attack was other than a regrettable accident.  

U.S. Naval Court of Inquiry of June 1967

Joint Chief of Staff's Report of June 1967.

CIA Intelligence Memorandums of June 1967

Clark Clifford Report of July 1967

Senate Foreign Relations Committee Testimony during hearings of the 1967 Foreign Aid 
Authorization bill, July 1967

House Armed Services Committee Investigation of 1971

The NSA History Report of 1981


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## Jos (Apr 2, 2012)

You missed out common sense 101, which finds the scheming Israelis guilty


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## JStone (Apr 2, 2012)

Jos said:


> You missed out common sense 101, which finds the scheming Israelis guilty



Israelis are guilty of being successful.  Arabs and muslimes, not so much. 

Warren Buffett


> If you go to the Middle East looking for oil, you don't need to stop in Israel.  But, if you're looking for brains, for energy, for integrity, for imagination, it's the only stop you need to make


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## Jos (Apr 2, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> Georgie, see if you can manage to get to a get-together of retired Naval personnel such as Port Hueneme or Point Mugu in your area where they will tell you that they consider this to be another example of friendly fire which happens all the time and that the Liberty was in the wrong place at the wrong time..  It's seems that the two-bit anti-Semites like you can't get enough of dragging up this Liberty incident over for years and years on message boards.  Maybe Georgie, being such a military strategist, could tell us why Israel would even bother boarding the ship when they could have sunk it instead by bombing it if they wanted to.



Oh they tried


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## Jos (Apr 2, 2012)

JStone said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> > You missed out common sense 101, which finds the scheming Israelis guilty
> ...



Not all israelis, and not all jews, take yourself as an example of failure


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## JStone (Apr 2, 2012)

Jos said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Georgie, see if you can manage to get to a get-together of retired Naval personnel such as Port Hueneme or Point Mugu in your area where they will tell you that they consider this to be another example of friendly fire which happens all the time and that the Liberty was in the wrong place at the wrong time..  It's seems that the two-bit anti-Semites like you can't get enough of dragging up this Liberty incident over for years and years on message boards.  Maybe Georgie, being such a military strategist, could tell us why Israel would even bother boarding the ship when they could have sunk it instead by bombing it if they wanted to.
> ...



Your Jew Envy is showing, loser.  Sucks being you.  

THE ISRAEL TEST: THE NATION IS A SYMBOL OF THE GLOBAL STRUGGLE BETWEEN ACHIEVEMENT AND ENVY


> The prime issue is not a global war of civilizations between the West and Islam or a split between Arabs and Jews. These conflicts are real and salient, but they obscure the deeper moral and ideological war.  The real issue is between admiration of achievement versus envy and resentment of it.
> 
> The test can be summarized by a few questions: What is your attitude toward people who excel you in the creation of wealth or in other accomplishments? Do you aspire to their excellence, or do you seethe at it? Do you admire and celebrate exceptional achievement, or do you impugn it and seek to tear it down?
> 
> ...


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## docmauser1 (Apr 3, 2012)

ima said:


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Of course, not! Winnie Churchill had informed us that "So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population.". And then arabs got hellbent on robbing jews. Simple, really.


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## ima (Apr 3, 2012)

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You mean Winston Churchill, the famous anti-semite and drunk?
Anyways, why would it matters what that fat fuck has to say? Who made him king if everything.


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 3, 2012)

ima said:


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Maybe his opinions are not written in stone , however I believe some respect for the man is in order.



> *Sir Winston Leonard Spencer-Churchill*, KG, OM, CH, TD, PC, DL, FRS, Hon. RA (30 November 1874  24 January 1965) was a British Conservative politician and statesman  known for his leadership of the United Kingdom during World War II.  *Widely regarded as one of the greatest wartime leaders of the century,*  he served as Prime Minister twice (194045 and 195155). A noted statesman and orator, Churchill was also an officer in the British Army, a historian, a writer, and an artist. He is the only British prime minister to have received the Nobel Prize in Literature, and was the first person to be made an Honorary Citizen of the United States.


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## ima (Apr 3, 2012)

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A great war time leader? Sheesh, if not for the Americans, Canadians... they were sunk. He spent the whole war pounding back scotch. What tactical genius move is he responsible for?


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 3, 2012)

ima said:


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It would seem you don't understand a great deal about leadership.
Great leadership doesn't mean making a particular move that turns a war (That would be called great tactician), nor does it mean wining the war alone.

(It's funny you mentioned Americans and Canadians , but didn't mentioned the Russians who are also largely responsible for the Allies victory.)


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## docmauser1 (Apr 3, 2012)

ima said:


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Oh! So, he wasn't lying!


ima said:


> _Anyways, why would it matters what that fat fuck has to say? Who made him king if everything._


Maybe "anything"?


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## ima (Apr 3, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


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Yes, of course the Russians as well. Hitler was a fool to invade Russia in the first place, he had a deal with Stalin and then fucked him. Then GOT fucked, lol.

Well, if great leadership is drinking and hiding, then he's one of the all-time greats!


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 3, 2012)

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Great leadership is about holding it together and doing what's right for your people.With Churchill's help the English people carried on and did not break under the Nazi attacks.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 3, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


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> Great leadership is about holding it together and doing what's right for your people.



Amen.


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## JStone (Apr 3, 2012)

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Great leadership is banning the display of lingerie!  

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GncVr9hNZGM]Hamas bans Gaza&#39;s lingerie displays - YouTube[/ame]


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 3, 2012)

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Indeed Amen , but your favorite regime on the planet does not qualify for that category.
Hamas are not doing whats best for their people , they doing what's best for imaginary people in the sky ... Big difference.


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## JStone (Apr 3, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


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Most normal kids want to grow up to be doctors or lawyers or baseball players.  Poor little misguided Tinny wants to be in hamas when he grows up.

I hear everyone saying, "Where did we go wrong?"


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 3, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


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Hamas appears to be doing what's best for themselves right here on Earth.



> The Gaza Strip usually makes headlines for rocket launching and IDF raids, but the daily lives of its residents are mostly affected by poverty, unemployment, faulty infrastructure and Hamas government corruption. A new study shows that in the past five years a new class of young millionaires emerged in Gaza.
> 
> The Gaza blockade enabled many to capitalize on the smuggling of goods via the Rafah tunnels. A new class of 600 young "tunnel millionaires" made their fortunes often at the expense of thousands of workers risking their lives in the tunnels.
> 
> ...



Gaza's tunnel tycoons - Israel Business, Ynetnews


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## ima (Apr 4, 2012)

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So Hitler was a great leader too?


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 4, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


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Gaza Mom » Gaza; settlements; Israel; Hamas; agriculture


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## JStone (Apr 4, 2012)

*Hamas And The Islamization Of Gaza: Mkhaimer Abusada, Professor Of Political Science, Al-Azhar University in Gaza. *


> The Gaza Strip was known as a very traditional and conservative society long before Hamas seized control of it in June 2007. The densely populated Strip is primarily inhabited by Palestinian refugees who have long suffered from poverty and negligence. But since Hamas took over the Gaza Strip, it has intensified its efforts and activities to Islamize the social life of local Palestinians. Islamization of the Gaza Strip refers to the efforts and process to impose Islamic laws and tradition by force.
> 
> The process of Islamization is being imposed by the Hamas government and its security apparatuses as well as volunteer dawa groups who go from door to door asking people to adhere to Islamic laws and hijab conservative dress. Beyond its imposition of Islamic social codes on daily life, Hamas controls the social, educational and religious systems that indoctrinate the residents with Islamic values that have a long-term effect on the nature of Gazan society.
> 
> ...


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## ima (Apr 5, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


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So Amadinnerjacket his "holding it together" for the people iran and doing what's best for them by developing nukes because no country who has nukes has ever been attacked outright. (Things like 9/11 aren't outright war, they're just more like nuisances.)


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 5, 2012)

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Israel was attacked by the combined strength of the Arab nations in 1967 and 1973 when it was already widely believed it had nukes.


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## ima (Apr 5, 2012)

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That's a maybe, and at the time I don't think anyone thought that they did. And aside from that no nuclear country has been attacked for real. So for Iran's own defense, it's a good move. Just like nuking Israel would not be a very good defensive move, lol.


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 5, 2012)

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It's not a maybe.  Before the 1967 war, according to a memo from the State Department to the NSA, Nasser had said 



> President Nasser had indicated that acquisition of a nuclear weapons capability by Israel would be cause for war no matter how suicidal for the Arabs.



Reassuring Egypt on Israeli Nuclear Reactor



> Israel is believed to have begun full scale production of nuclear weapons following the 1967 Six-Day War, although it may have had bomb parts earlier. A CIA report from early 1967 stated that Israel had the materials to construct a bomb in six to eight weeks[43] and some authors suggest that Israel had two crude bombs ready for use during the war.[1



Nuclear weapons and Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

By 1973, no one had any doubt that Israel had nukes.



> That night Meir authorized the assembly of thirteen 20-kiloton-of-TNT (84 TJ) tactical atomic weapons for Jericho missiles at Sdot Micha Airbase, and F-4 aircraft at Tel Nof Airbase, for use against Syrian and Egyptian targets.[247] They would be used if absolutely necessary to prevent total defeat, but the preparation was done in an easily detectable way, likely as a signal to the United States.[249





> The sealift may have included Soviet nuclear weapons, which were not unloaded but kept in Alexandria harbor until November to counter the Israeli nuclear preparations, which Soviet satellites had detected. American concern over possible evidence of nuclear warheads for the Soviet Scud missiles in Egypt contributed to Washington's decision to go to DEFCON 3.[247]



Yom Kippur War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Proof positive that the possession of nuclear weapons does not provide a deterrent to attack with conventional weapons.  

Another example is that North Korea attacked US forces in the south despite the fact that the US had just nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki a few years before.  The North Vietnamese also showed no fear of US nukes. 

It makes no sense to argue that Iran would not launch a nuclear attack against Israel or the US for fear of a nuclear retaliation and then to claim the possession of nukes would serve as a deterrent to an attack with conventional weapons since Iran would also have to fear a nuclear retaliation in this case, too.  In other words, if the US and Israel can be confident that Iran will not launch a nuclear attack against them, then they will not be deterred from attacking Iran with conventional weapons.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 5, 2012)

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Fear mongering crapola. Iran is not going to attack anyone.

If Iran wasn't supporting Hezbollah and Hamas we wouldn't be having this discussion.


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## ima (Apr 5, 2012)

Toomuch, I still say that's a maybe, the Israelis could have been pretending to have nukes by "assembling" them in the open, that's the type of thing you do when you ain't got squat, lol.


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 5, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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If Iran were not currently attacking Israel through its Arab proxies, Hamas, Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad, and frequently threatening to destroy Israel, then Israel would have less interest in Iran's nuclear weapons program, but as it is, it would be irresponsible of the Israeli government not to do whatever is necessary to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 5, 2012)

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So, what instructions has Iran been giving to these groups?


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## docmauser1 (Apr 5, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> _If Iran wasn't supporting Hezbollah and Hamas we wouldn't be having this discussion._


Oh, so, Iran has to take appropriate steps to end the discussion, hasn't it?


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 5, 2012)

ima said:


> Toomuch, I still say that's a maybe, the Israelis could have been pretending to have nukes by "assembling" them in the open, that's the type of thing you do when you ain't got squat, lol.



The point is that by 1973 everyone, including the US, USSR and Egypt, believed Israel had nuclear weapons and it did not deter the Arabs from attacking, and just a few years after Hiroshima and Nagasaki the North Koreans were not deterred from attacking US forces in the south and similarly the North Vietnamese were not deterred from attacking French or US forces.  All of the evidence indicates that possessing even as awesome a nuclear arsenal as the US has provides no deterrence from attack by conventional forces.


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 5, 2012)

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If I told you, I'd have to kill you.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 5, 2012)

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Nice dodge.


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 5, 2012)

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I responded to your post with all the seriousness it deserved.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 5, 2012)

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It is just that I hear continuously that Hezbollah and Hamas are controlled by Iran but nobody has shown any evidence to back that up.


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## JStone (Apr 5, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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 PFucktard





*US State Department: Iran, State Sponsor of Terrorism*


> Overview: Designated as a State Sponsor of Terrorism in 1984, Iran remained the most active state sponsor of terrorism in 2010. Iran&#8217;s financial, material, and logistic support for terrorist and militant groups throughout the Middle East and Central Asia had a direct impact on international efforts to promote peace, threatened economic stability in the Gulf, and undermined the growth of democracy.
> 
> In 2010, Iran remained the principal supporter of groups implacably opposed to the Middle East Peace Process. The Qods Force, the external operations branch of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC), is the regime&#8217;s primary mechanism for cultivating and supporting terrorists abroad. Iran provided weapons, training, and funding to Hamas and other Palestinian terrorist groups, including the Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ) and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command (PFLP-GC). Since the end of the 2006 Israeli-Hizballah conflict, Iran has assisted Hizballah in rearming, in direct violation of UN Security Council Resolution 1701. Iran has provided hundreds of millions of dollars in support of Hizballah in Lebanon and has trained thousands of Hizballah fighters at camps in Iran.
> 
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 5, 2012)

US State Department


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 5, 2012)

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I wouldn't say Hamas and Hezbollah are completely controlled by Iran.  I mean they have other interests such as imprisoning or murdering their critics, and in the case of Hamas, preventing democratic elections and growing rich by preventing trade with Israel so that they can charge higher prices for smuggled goods.


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## JStone (Apr 5, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> US State Department



Sit in the dunce's corner and maybe someone there will award you your first rep point after 3 years 

PFucktard




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4Vp642ERhM&feature=related]Sound-Effects - Crowd Laughing - YouTube[/ame]


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 5, 2012)

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You sure suck up that propaganda.


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## JStone (Apr 5, 2012)

*Egypt Slams Iran's Hamas, Hezbollah Connection*


> Egypt's foreign minister, Ahmed Aboul Gheit, fired a verbal broadside against Iran, Hamas, and Hezbollah, on Wednesday, saying the three "worked together in the fighting over Gaza to provoke conflict in the Middle East," reports Reuters.
> 
> "[They tried] to turn the region to confrontation in the interest of Iran, which is trying to use its cards to escape Western pressure ... on the nuclear file," Mr. Gheit said in an interview with Orbit satellite channel on Wednesday.
> 
> Egypt slams Iran's Hamas, Hezbollah connection - CSMonitor.com


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 5, 2012)

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Well, when you told us that the Palestinian Arabs had the best democracy in the ME including Israel except for the fact they didn't hold elections, I didn't suck up that piece of propaganda.


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## JStone (Apr 5, 2012)

Palesteenians democracy, civil rights and due process under the law  

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oV2j-N4AaBI]Hamas brutality against Fatah on Palestinian TV - PA public - YouTube[/ame]


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 5, 2012)

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Of course I didn't say that but that is the way you are.


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 5, 2012)

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Of course you did, but that is the way you are.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 5, 2012)

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Link?


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 5, 2012)

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> 02-21-2012, 08:27 PM
> P F Tinmore
> Registered User
> Member #21837   Join Date: Dec 2009
> ...



http://www.usmessageboard.com/israe...ace-mankind-and-civilization.html#post4849754


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 5, 2012)

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Where is the other half?

And besides that you altered my quote.


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 5, 2012)

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No, I copied it exactly.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 5, 2012)

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I didn't say all that.

And where is the other half that you said that I said?


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## JStone (Apr 5, 2012)

*PFucktard*





"Rep System Guidelines: Our reputation system is designed to provide a feedback and credibility mechanism."

P F Tinmore Rep Power: 0
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,512
"PF Tinmore is off the scale"


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4Vp642ERhM&feature=related]Sound-Effects - Crowd Laughing - YouTube[/ame]


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 5, 2012)

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There is no other half.  You knew the Palestinian Arabs didn't hold elections unless they were forced to and you still claimed they had the best democracy in the ME.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 5, 2012)

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That is a lie too.

Link?


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 5, 2012)

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You're so full of shit you must even disgust yourself.  Specifically, what is a lie?  Specifically, a link to what, you fucking moron?


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 5, 2012)

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> You knew the Palestinian Arabs didn't hold elections unless they were forced to and you still claimed they had the best democracy in the ME.



When did I say that?

Link?

Don't blame me for your reading comprehension problem.


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 5, 2012)

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I already provided the link to your post.  You're not fooling anybody by repeatedly asking for links that have already been provided.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 5, 2012)

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Another lie. You only posted one link when there should be more.


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## JStone (Apr 5, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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"Rep System Guidelines: Our reputation system is designed to provide a feedback and credibility mechanism."
P F Tinmore Rep Power: 0
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,512
"PF Tinmore is off the scale"


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## ima (Apr 6, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> ima said:
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> > Toomuch, I still say that's a maybe, the Israelis could have been pretending to have nukes by "assembling" them in the open, that's the type of thing you do when you ain't got squat, lol.
> ...



Korea isn't a nuclear power, neither is Viet Nam. I said COUNTRIES with nukes don't get attacked, therefore it's wise for the Iranians to develop nukes.


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## docmauser1 (Apr 6, 2012)

ima said:


> _Korea isn't a nuclear power, neither is Viet Nam. I said COUNTRIES with nukes don't get attacked, therefore it's wise for the Iranians to develop nukes._


Good mullah-safe mb baiting drivel, indeed.


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 6, 2012)

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You appear to be especially slow witted today.  The US is a nuclear power but the North Koreans attacked US forces anyway, despite the fact the US had recently nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and similarly the North Vietnamese attacked US and French forces despite the fact that both the US and France were nuclear powers.  I get it that you would like to see a nuclear armed Iran, but claiming nukes would protect Iran from attacks with conventional weapons is clearly nonsense.  Of the world's nine nuclear powers, four, the US, France, Russia by Chechnya, and Israel, have been attacked.


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## ima (Apr 6, 2012)

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Only if you're counting 9/11 as an act of war. Like I said, attacking US troops in a foreign land doesn't qualify. Japan attacked the US at Pearl Harbor, then eventually got nuked. That was the only time. 

And France, who attacked them?

Chechnya isn't going to get nuked, that would be like the US nuking Texas because they want to separate.

And Israel MIGHT have had nukes back in 1967, we still don't know, they never set one off in a test, or did they?


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 6, 2012)

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Despite your tit for tat musings about when nukes should be used, there is no evidence any country was ever deterred from attacking a nuclear power because of their nukes and all the evidence shows that several nuclear powers were attacked despite their possession of nukes.  All of the evidence indicates that Iran will be no safer from conventional attack if it has nukes, and the pursuit of nuclear weapons has put it in imminent danger of attack.


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 6, 2012)

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The irony in this is that no one wanted to attack Iran before they declared their nuclear program.

I for one totally agree with you , If a country has a nuclear weapon other countries would think twice before attacking them. 

For example if Germany had a nuke during WWII it is most likely that the US and other countries would not have joined the Allies , and maybe it would have led to the victory of the Nazis. 

That's precisely the reason why Iran having nukes is a *bad thing *for everyone who is not Iran. If they would have nuclear weapons the could do whatever they want , and nobody would be able to stop them.


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 6, 2012)

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> I for one totally agree with you , If a country has a nuclear weapon other countries would think twice before attacking them.



That would explain why the Yom Kippur War never happened.


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## ima (Apr 6, 2012)

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Like who? Everyone says that Osama was a terrorist. France wasn't attacked. Chechnya is an independence thing, and no one knows for sure what israel had when.


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 6, 2012)

ima said:


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Again, regardless of what you may personally believe about Israel's nukes or what rules you make up about when nukes should be used, Israel (Yom Kippur War), the US (Korea and Vietnam), France (Algeria and Vietnam) and Russia (Chechnya) were all attacked after they had nukes.  There is no evidence that any country was ever deterred from launching a conventional attack on a nuclear power because of its nuclear weapons.

There is absolutely no basis in fact or logic for believing that the possession of nuclear weapons provides any deterrence against attacks with conventional weapons.


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## ima (Apr 6, 2012)

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You're an idiot, Algeria and Nam aren't France, so France was never attacked...


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## Billo_Really (Apr 6, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> For example if Germany had a nuke during WWII it is most likely that the US and other countries would not have joined the Allies , and maybe it would have led to the victory of the Nazis.
> 
> That's precisely the reason why Iran having nukes is a *bad thing *for everyone who is not Iran. If they would have nuclear weapons the could do whatever they want , and nobody would be able to stop them.


You can't compare Nazi Germany to Iran.  On the one hand, you have one country systematically launching un-provoked wars of aggression against sovereign nations and on the other, you have a country that hasn't attacked anyone in over 200 years.

Any country that is smart enough to build a nuclear weapon, is also smart enough to know that if they use that weapon as a first strike, their country will glow in the dark.

Why doesn't anyone want to talk about Israel's nuclear weapons?  Or why they've refused to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (which Iran has signed)?  

Quite frankly, all this talk about the destruction of Israel is a big joke.  Israel is the biggest military power in the ME, there isn't any country in that area that is capable of destroying them.  And the last time anyone tried, they got their ass kicked in 8 days.


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## docmauser1 (Apr 7, 2012)

loinboy said:


> _Any country that is smart enough to build a nuclear weapon, is also smart enough to know that if they use that weapon as a first strike, their country will glow in the dark._


Provided that country also realises that glowing in the dark doesn't attract virgins, of course.


loinboy said:


> _Why doesn't anyone want to talk about Israel's nuclear weapons?_


They don't exist, do they?


loinboy said:


> _Or why they've refused to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty_


Aside from the fact that entering a treaty is a voluntary business, what alleged nukes do those "evil jews" allegedly "proliferate"?


loinboy said:


> _(which Iran has signed)?_


Most sure they regret it bitterly.


loinboy said:


> _Quite frankly, all this talk about the destruction of Israel is a big joke. Israel is the biggest military power in the ME, there isn't any country in that area that is capable of destroying them.  And the last time anyone tried, they got their ass kicked in 8 days._


Besides, all that "nuke Israel" bullshitt will hurt our protected palisimian habitat, won't it? Which brings us to the original - arabs-muslims don't love their children more, than they hate jews.


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 7, 2012)

ima said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



Again, your ignorance is vast and profound.  Algeria was a part of France and Vietnam was a French territory, just as Hawaii was a US territory when when the military base at Pearl Harbor was bombed.  Of course, if you weren't dumb as a rock, you'd realize that none of this matters.  The fact is that France's nukes did not deter attacks on French forces and French civilians in Vietnam and Algeria, just as US nukes did not deter attacks on US forces in Korea or Vietnam and Israeli nukes did not deter attacks by Egypt and Syria in 1973 and Russian nukes did not deter attacks on Russian forces and Russian civilians from Chechnya.  Four out of the world's nine nuclear powers have suffered attacks by conventional forces, clearly showing that the possession of nukes provides no deterrence from conventional attacks, and there is no evidence that any country was ever deterred from an attack because the target country possessed nukes.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 7, 2012)

docmauser1 said:


> Besides, all that "nuke Israel" bullshitt will hurt our protected palisimian habitat, won't it? Which brings us to the original - arabs-muslims don't love their children more, than they hate jews.


I used to work with an Iranian architect who had Jewish friends that hated Israeli's.

Go figure that one out.


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## ima (Apr 7, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > toomuchtime_ said:
> ...



The were colonies, ok, but that's STILL not attacking France itself. And you're forgetting one important thing: FRANCE DIDN"T HAVE NUKES BACK THEN!

Those dirty bastard Nips nailed us in a sneak attack and are just lucky we only had the 2 bombs, lol. Plus, as has been mentioned several times, if you don't ever use your nukes, you have no deterrent. Just like you can't deter crime if you never convict anyone, but only threaten to.


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 7, 2012)

ima said:


> Plus, as has been mentioned several times, if you don't ever use your nukes, you have no deterrent. Just like you can't deter crime if you never convict anyone, but only threaten to.



I'm sorry,thats a dumb claim. It's like saying that a person holding a gun to your head is not threatening because he never used a gun to kill someone before.


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## Sunni Man (Apr 7, 2012)

The rogue state of Israel is nothing but a terrorist base camp.

That is used by the ruling Zionist cabal to stock pile weapons.

As they continue to create chaos and war all over the world in order to enrich themselves.

And strive for their ultimate goal of complete political and financial domination of all non-Jewish people.


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 7, 2012)

Sunni Man said:


> The rogue state of Israel is nothing but a terrorist base camp.
> 
> That is used by the ruling Zionist cabal to stock pile weapons.
> 
> ...



Thank you for that totally unrelated and non-antisemitic comment! 

On the up side I'm sure Osama Bin Laden would have been really proud of you. As it is more or less his diluted point of view as well.


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## Sunni Man (Apr 7, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > The rogue state of Israel is nothing but a terrorist base camp.
> ...


I commend you for acknowledging that criticism of Zionism or Israel is not anti-semitic.

But your reference to OBL is over the top.


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 7, 2012)

Sunni Man said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



Why? He believed that Israel wants to dominate the whole Arabian Peninsula while you believe Israel tires to dominate the whole world. 

It would seem that he was less extreme then you.


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## Sunni Man (Apr 7, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> Why? He believed that Israel wants to dominate the whole Arabian Peninsula while you believe Israel tires to dominate the whole world.
> 
> It would seem that he was less extreme then you.


To a Zionist, the "Truth" is extreme; no matter who says it.


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## docmauser1 (Apr 7, 2012)

Sunni Man said:


> _The rogue state of Israel is nothing but a terrorist base camp. That is used by the ruling Zionist cabal to stock pile weapons. As they continue to create chaos and war all over the world in order to enrich themselves. And strive for their ultimate goal of complete political and financial domination of all non-Jewish people._


The Maccabi beer conspiracy!


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## Billo_Really (Apr 7, 2012)

Sunni Man said:


> The rogue state of Israel is nothing but a terrorist base camp.
> 
> That is used by the ruling Zionist cabal to stock pile weapons.
> 
> ...


You know, there are liberal jewish groups that object to their country's treatment of the Palestinian's, but their right-wing Likud Party is busy making any objection to Israeli policy a crime.  Which means any Jews speaking out for human rights, are treated like Palestinian's.

Zionist's are assholes, just like our own neocon's.  They used Judaism to further their political agenda.  

It's funny, 700 years ago, jews and arabs lived side-by-side for centuries with no major problems.  Now it's just a cluster fuck.


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 7, 2012)

Sunni Man said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > Why? He believed that Israel wants to dominate the whole Arabian Peninsula while you believe Israel tires to dominate the whole world.
> ...



How convenient it is that whenever you can't find an argument to support your case you just use the word "Zionist" as a defense. 

Sadly me being a Zionist or not does not negate the fact that you and the late Osama are of the same mind.


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 7, 2012)

ima said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



France developed the bomb in 1960 while it was fighting a war in Algeria.  

Hawaii didn't become a state until 1959.  When the Japanese attacked our military base at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii was in effect a US colony, so by your reasoning, the US was never attacked.  Our nuclear weapons were never intended to deter all attacks just as the death penalty or life in prison is not intended to deter all crimes.  Our second strike capability is intended to deter a first strike by Russia because our conventional forces would be inadequate to defend what was left of us after a Russian nuclear attack.  Our first strike capability is a last ditch option to be used only when our conventional forces are in danger of being overrun or we would incur unacceptably high casualties if we didn't use nukes.


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## docmauser1 (Apr 7, 2012)

loinboy said:


> _You know, there are liberal jewish groups that object to their country's treatment of the Palestinian's,_


If anyone shows me an equal amount of those, let's say, "palistanian liberal groups", staging peace demos in Ramallah, gazabad - we will talk liberal groups, until that - forget the bull.


loinboy said:


> _... It's funny, 700 years ago, jews and arabs lived side-by-side for centuries with no major problems._


Hilarious drivel!


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## georgephillip (Apr 8, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > *How many of the following are awarded for "friendly fire" actions?*
> ...


"*The U.S. Naval Court of Inquiry* record contains testimony by fourteen Liberty crew members and five subject matter experts; exhibits of attack damage photographs, various messages and memorandums; and findings of fact. 

"The testimony record reveals 'a shallow investigation, plagued by myriad disagreements between the captain and his crew.'[47] 

"As to culpability, '*It was not the responsibility of the court to rule on the culpability of the attackers*, and no evidence was heard from the attacking nation', the court concluded that 'available evidence combines to indicate ... (that the attack was) a case of mistaken identity.'"

Possibly the available evidence would have been different if the court had taken responsibility to rule on culpability? 

Do you know of any friendly fire incidents in which one Medal of Honor, two Navy Crosses, eleven Silver Stars, twenty Bronze Stars (with "V" device) and nine Navy Commendation Medals were awarded?

USS Liberty incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## georgephillip (Apr 8, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > *How many of the following are awarded for "friendly fire" actions?*
> ...


"The Joint Chief of Staff's Report contains findings of fact related only to communication system failures associated with the Liberty attack. *It was not concerned with matters of culpability*, nor does it contain statements thereof.

"The CIA Memorandums consist of two documents: one dated June 13, 1967, and the other dated June 21, 1967. The June 13 memorandum is an 'account of circumstances of the attack ... compiled from all available sources.' 

"The June 21 memorandum is a point-by-point analysis of Israeli inquiry findings of fact. It concludes: 'The attack was not made in malice toward the U.S. and was by mistake, but the failure of the IDF Headquarters and the attacking aircraft to identify the Liberty and the subsequent attack by torpedo boats were both incongruous and indicative of gross negligence.'"

USS Liberty incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## georgephillip (Apr 8, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > *How many of the following are awarded for "friendly fire" actions?*
> ...


"*The Clark Clifford Report* consists of a review of 'all available information on the subject' and 'deals with the question of Israeli culpability', according to its transmittal memorandum. 

"The report concludes: 'The unprovoked attack on the Liberty constitutes a flagrant act of gross negligence for which *the Israeli Government should be held completely responsible*, and the Israeli military personnel involved should be punished.'"

USS Liberty incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*"The Senate Foreign Relations Committee* Testimony contains, *as an aside matter during hearings concerning a foreign aid authorization bill*, questions and statements from several senators and responses from then Secretary of Defense, Robert McNamara, about the Liberty attack. 

"For the most part, the senators were dismayed about the attack, as expressed by Senator Bourke B. Hickenlooper: '*From what I have read I can't tolerate for 1 minute that this [attack] was an accident*.' 

"Also, there was concern about obtaining more information about the attack, as expressed by Committee Chairman J. William Fulbright: 'We asked for [the attack investigation report] about 2 weeks ago and have not received it yet from Secretary Rusk. ... *By the time we get to it we will be on some other subject*.' 

"Secretary McNamara promised fast delivery of the investigation report ('... you will have it in 4 hours.'), and concluded his remarks by saying: 'I simply want to emphasize that the investigative report does not show any evidence of a conscious intent to attack a U.S. vessel.' 

"Since the hearings concerned a foreign aid bill, *the committee's report omitted any mention of the Liberty incident."*


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## Hossfly (Apr 8, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


What does this rehash of the Liberty have to do with the price of figs in Fiji?


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## georgephillip (Apr 8, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > *How many of the following are awarded for "friendly fire" actions?*
> ...


"*The House Armed Services Committee* Investigation report is entitled, 'Review of Department of Defense Worldwide Communications'. *It was not an investigation* focused on the Liberty attack; although, the committee's report contains a section that describes communications flow involved with the Liberty incident.

*"The NSA History Report* is, as its name connotes, a historical report that cited the U.S. Naval Court of Inquiry record, various military and government messages and memorandum, and personal interviews for its content. The report ends with a section entitled, '*Unanswered Questions'*, and *provides no conclusion regarding culpability*."

"*The Liberty Veterans Association* (composed of veterans from the ship) states that U.S. congressional investigations and other U.S. investigations were not actually investigations into the attack; but, rather, reports using evidence only from the U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry, or investigations unrelated to culpability that involved issues such as communications. 

"In their view, the U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry is the only actual investigation on the incident to date. *They claim it was hastily conducted, in only 10 days, even though the courts president, Rear Admiral Isaac Kidd, said that it would take 6 months to conduct properly.* 

USS Liberty incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## georgephillip (Apr 8, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > toomuchtime_ said:
> ...


*Maybe it has more to do with the price of sugar in Cuba?*
(Or the price of oil in Egypt??)

"*Operation Northwoods* was a series of false-flag proposals that originated in 1962 within the United States government, and which the Kennedy administration rejected. [2] The proposals called for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), or other operatives, to commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities and elsewhere. 

"These acts of terrorism were to be blamed on Cuba in order to create public support for a war against that nation, which had recently become communist under Fidel Castro.[3] One part of Operation Northwoods was to 'develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington.'

"Operation Northwoods proposals included hijackings and bombings followed by the introduction of phony evidence that would implicate the Cuban government..."

"Several other proposals were included within Operation Northwoods, including *real or simulated actions against various U.S. military* and civilian targets. 

"*The plan was drafted by the Joint Chiefs of Staff*, signed by Chairman Lyman Lemnitzer and sent to the Secretary of Defense. 

Operation Northwoods - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*Are you still in denial* about the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet or who profits from the resulting mass murders/maimings/displacments?


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## Hossfly (Apr 8, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Still in de nile. Ever read this?

http://www.fas.org/irp/cia/product/liberty0667.pdf


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## georgephillip (Apr 8, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


*Who ya gonna believe...CIA, NSA...?*

"On the day of the attack on the Liberty, I read yellow teletype sheets that spewed from the machines in front of me all day. We obtained our input from a variety of sources including the NSA. The teletypes were raw translations of intercepts of Israeli air-to-air and air-to-ground communications between jet aircraft and their ground controller. I read page after page of these transcripts that day as it went on and on. 

"The transcripts made specific reference to the efforts to direct the jets to the target which was *identified as American numerous times by the ground controller*. 

"Upon arrival, the aircraft specifically identified the target and mentioned the American flag she was flying. 

"There were frequent operational transmissions from the pilots to the ground base describing the strafing runs. The ground control began asking about the status of the target and whether it was sinking. *They stressed that the target must be sunk and leave no trace*.

"The pilots stated they had made several runs and the target was still floating. 

"The ground control station re-iterated that it was urgent that the target be sunk, leaving no trace. There was a detectable level of frustration evident in the transmissions over the fact that the aircraft were unable to accomplish the mission quickly and totally."

Why do you suppose Israeli ground controllers wanted_ Liberty_ sunk without a trace?

Statement of Stephen Forslund


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 8, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> *Who ya gonna believe...CIA, NSA...?*
> 
> Statement of Stephen Forslund



No , by all means , a shady site which was set up by god know who is far more reliable...

If you claim you don't know who to believe that's ok. 

However it's highly hypocritical of you to say that one source is surly false and the other is surly true , when you don't have any factual evidence for either.


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## Jos (Apr 8, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > *Who ya gonna believe...CIA, NSA...?*
> ...



You filthy mother fucker, you mock the site of the survivors of Israels attack ussliberty.org


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## georgephillip (Apr 8, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > *Who ya gonna believe...CIA, NSA...?*
> ...


*Shady???*

USS Liberty Memorial

Do the names Jim Ennes and Joe Meadors mean anything to you?


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## JStone (Apr 8, 2012)

Barack Obama 


> The bond between the United States and Israel is unbreakable. It encompasses our national security interests, our strategic interests, but most importantly, the bond of two democracies who share a common set of values."
> Remarks by President Obama and Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu



US Government USS Liberty Investigation...

C.I.A. report June 13, 1967  No malice; attack a mistake  
U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry June 18, 1967 Mistaken identity  
Report by Clark Clifford July 18, 1967 No evidence ship was known to be American  
Senate Select Committee on Intelligence 1979/1981 No merit to claims attack was intentional  
National Security Agency 1981 Mistaken identity 
House Armed Services Committee 1991/1992 No support for claims attack was intentional 
http://www.sixdaywar.org/uss-liberty.asp


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## georgephillip (Apr 8, 2012)

Jos said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Isn't it surprising how little regard some Israelis have for the opinions of every single survivor of _Liberty_? Maybe their knee-jerk support for Empire blinds them to crimes like the attack on _Liberty_?

*Maybe they are afraid of Liberty...*


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## JStone (Apr 8, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...



Multiple US government bodies determined the USS Liberty incident was an accident.

C.I.A. report June 13, 1967  No malice; attack a mistake  
U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry June 18, 1967 Mistaken identity  
Report by Clark Clifford July 18, 1967 No evidence ship was known to be American  
Senate Select Committee on Intelligence 1979/1981 No merit to claims attack was intentional  
National Security Agency 1981 Mistaken identity 
House Armed Services Committee 1991/1992 No support for claims attack was intentional 
USS Liberty


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## georgephillip (Apr 8, 2012)

JStone said:


> Barack Obama
> 
> 
> > The bond between the United States and Israel is unbreakable. It encompasses our national security interests, our strategic interests, but most importantly, the bond of two democracies who share a common set of values."
> ...


"The aircraft eventually broke off and we received no further transcripts of the event. I have since learned in later descriptions of the attack that torpedo boats attacked the Liberty also. I saw neither intercepts nor analyses that addressed that attack. 

"An hour or two later I was discussing the event with a team member and he stated they had received, during the time frame of the attack, an intercept of a US State Department message to Israel stating that *the United States had full evidence of what had occurred in the attack on the Liberty* and strongly warning Israel to cease activities immediately.

"Imagine my surprise when, upon going home that night, I was watching the evening news and a short piece that gave vague reference to a mistaken attack by Israel upon an American ship off Sinai came on. 

"The next day there was a small article buried in the A section of the paper stating that there had been an accidental attack on the USS Liberty and that the governments involved were in discussions. 

"I saw little mention after that in the popular press and, of course, said nothing for the next 36 years.

"I read these discussions debating whether Israel intentionally attacked the USS Liberty and what their motivation would have been for a deliberate attack. I can't debate their motivation. But, I will carry the memory of those transcripts with me until I die. 

"We all lost our virginity that day."

*While you are still a whore for war...*

Statement of Stephen Forslund


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## JStone (Apr 8, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > Barack Obama
> ...



Multiple US Government Bodies Determined The Liberty Incident An Accident.

C.I.A. report June 13, 1967  No malice; attack a mistake  
U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry June 18, 1967 Mistaken identity  
Report by Clark Clifford July 18, 1967 No evidence ship was known to be American  
Senate Select Committee on Intelligence 1979/1981 No merit to claims attack was intentional  
National Security Agency 1981 Mistaken identity 
House Armed Services Committee 1991/1992 No support for claims attack was intentional 
USS Liberty


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 8, 2012)

Jos said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



The site is "http://www.gtr5.com/" the domain ussliberty.org does not exist.".com" meaning it's commercial , anyone could set it up.






georgephillip said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



What does it matter ? 
The site was created by Jim Ennes , who to say he is painting an accurate picture of reality ? 

There is a multitude of sources on this issue , some claim Israel did it on purpose others claim Israel did not do it on purpose , the fact that you select one source and claim it's true based on nothing then your feeling makes you a hypocrite.


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## JStone (Apr 8, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...



Israel, the size of Vermont, intentionally perpetrated an act of war against the US?


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## georgephillip (Apr 8, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...


Jim Ennes was there as was David Lewis:
Were you?

"At least two rescue attempts were launched from U.S. aircraft carriers nearby but were recalled, according to the Liberty's senior Naval Security Group officer, Lieutenant Commander David Lewis.

"Lewis made an audio recording and later wrote about a meeting 6th Fleet Rear Admiral Lawrence Geis requested in his cabins: 'He told me that since I was the senior Liberty survivor on board he wanted to tell me in confidence what had actually transpired. 

"'He told me that upon receipt of our SOS, aircraft were launched to come to our assistance and then Washington was notified. He said that the Secretary of Defense (Robert McNamara) had ordered that the aircraft be returned to the carrier, which was done. 

"'RADM Geis then said that he speculated that Washington may have suspected that the aircraft carried nuclear weapons so he put together another flight of conventional aircraft that had no capability of carrying nuclear weapons. These he launched to assist us and again notified Washington of his actions. 

"'Again McNamara ordered the aircraft recalled. 

"'He requested confirmation of the order being unable to believe that Washington would let us sink. This time *President Johnson ordered the recall* with the comment that *he did not care if every man drowned and the ship sank*, but that he would not embarrass his allies.."

USS Liberty incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 8, 2012)

> Israel, the size of Vermont, intentionally perpetrated an act of war against the US?


Indeed
You know , Israel's small size doesn't even matter . The US and Israel are allies and was allies at that time ... There is no reason whatsoever for Israel to attack that vessel intentionally. 
And goerge's 'Not shady' sites does not offer an answer to the question 'Why would Israel do it.'


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## georgephillip (Apr 8, 2012)

JStone said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > Jos said:
> ...


What makes you think Israel initiated the plan?


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 8, 2012)

> Jim Ennes was there as was David Lewis:
> Were you?



Are you serious ? How does him being there guarantee him knowing the attack was intentional ? How does him being there guarantee him telling the truth ? 

For proving your point , your side have to present irrefutable evidence, your site did *not *show evidence , only stories ...


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## JStone (Apr 8, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...




georgephillip





"Rep System Guidelines: Our reputation system is designed to provide a feedback and credibility mechanism."

georgephillip
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,821 
Rep Power: 0
"GEORGEPHILLIP SUCKS OFF GOATS" 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4Vp642ERhM&feature=related]Sound-Effects - Crowd Laughing - YouTube[/ame]


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## georgephillip (Apr 8, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> > Israel, the size of Vermont, intentionally perpetrated an act of war against the US?
> 
> 
> Indeed
> ...


"I read these discussions debating whether Israel intentionally attacked the USS Liberty and what their motivation would have been for a deliberate attack. *I can't debate their motivation...*

"'The (Israeli) ground control station stated that the target was American and for the aircraft to confirm it,' Forslund recalled. 'The aircraft did confirm the identity of the target as American, by the American flag.

"'The ground control station ordered the aircraft to attack and sink the target *and ensure they left no survivors.*"

"'Forslund said he clearly recalled 'the obvious frustration of the controller over the inability of the pilots to sink the target quickly and completely.'"

"'He kept insisting the mission had to sink the target, and was frustrated with the pilots' responses that it didn't sink.'"

Statement of Stephen Forslund


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## JStone (Apr 8, 2012)

Multiple US Government Bodies Determine Liberty Incident An Accident.

Report Date issued Conclusion 
C.I.A. report June 13, 1967  No malice; attack a mistake  
U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry June 18, 1967 Mistaken identity  
Report by Clark Clifford July 18, 1967 No evidence ship was known to be American  
Senate Select Committee on Intelligence 1979/1981 No merit to claims attack was intentional  
National Security Agency 1981 Mistaken identity 
House Armed Services Committee 1991/1992 No support for claims attack was intentional 
USS Liberty


georgephillip





"Rep System Guidelines: Our reputation system is designed to provide a feedback and credibility mechanism."

georgephillip
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,821 
Rep Power: 0
"GEORGEPHILLIP SUCKS OFF GOATS"


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## georgephillip (May 6, 2012)

"Within 24 hours of the attack, the United States Navy convened a formal Court of Inquiry into that attack - a standard investigative procedure reserved for such serious events or circumstances. 

"This procedure was unusual in only one respect - the President and members appointed to the Court of Inquiry by the Commander in Chief, U.S. Naval Forces, Europe (CINCUSNAVEUR), headquartered in London, were directed orally by the appointing authority to *conduct and complete their investigative proceedings within one week* - a most unusual requirement in light of the nature and magnitude of the events they were ordered to investigate."

USS Liberty Memorial: Summary of Events

The US Congress has never investigated the deliberate Israeli attack on Liberty.
Not a problem for brain-dead and banned for life shit like you...?


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## JStone (May 6, 2012)

United States Senator Daniel Inouye, President Pro Tempore of the US Senate, Awarded Medal of Honor, Purple Heart, Distinguished Service Cross, Bronze Star 


> If one looks at most of this world, especially the Middle East, one country stands out as a foundation of stability and as a pillar of democracy. And at a time like this, when you have revolution in Yemen, Bahrain, Syria, Egypt, Tunisia and Jordan, thank God we have Israel.
> Top senator: An attack on Israel is an a... JPost - International


[/quote]


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## georgephillip (May 6, 2012)

"13 year old Kamal Nawahda of Yamoun, near Jenin, was killed by a gunshot in the head on Thursday, by the Israeli Army. 

"*At the time of his murder, he was inside his classroom.*

"Unfortunately, even school is not a safe place for children to be in the Occupied West Bank. The Israeli Army had chosen to invade Yamoun and the fact that they were next to a school did not hinder them from shooting randomly and intensely, thus killing one of the schoolchildren."

*How many children did Inouye murder for his medal?* 

Human rights group higlights Israeli murder of Palestinian children


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## JStone (May 6, 2012)

> A 27-year-old mother of five was bludgeoned to death with an iron chain by her father last week in Gaza in what human rights groups report was an honor killing.
> 
> According to police in Gaza, the father, Jawdat al-Najar, heard his daughter Fadia, who had divorced in 2005, speaking on the phone with a man. He believed she was having a relationship with him. Police say al-Najar became enraged and beat her to death; her body was brought to a hospital where officials said she died of a skull fracture
> 
> ...



 


> Maria's Grotto, A Documentary About Honor Killings In Palestine A gripping portrait of women, whose lives were dictated by a moral code, Maria's Grotto explores honor killings in Palestine through the stories of four women: one is wrongly accused of dishonoring her family and then murdered; the second dies after being forced by her brothers to swallow poison; the third survives repeated stabbings inflicted by her brother; and the fourth is a Hip-hop singer who dares speak out about honor killings, and faces death threats.



*LiveLeak.com - Maria's Grotto, A Documentary About Honor Killings In Palestine*


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## georgephillip (May 6, 2012)

"*The Israeli Army was engaged in their reproachable yet common combat with children*, whose only defense is throwing stones at armored vehicles. Often when tanks and other military vehicles strut into villages, children who have grown up under occupation and direct suffering from this Intifada, express their resentment and resistance through whipping rocks at the vehicles. 

"They know it won't amount to much damage, but it is a release for their deep frustration. Rarely are soldiers, hidden deep in their vehicles, endangered by these children. 

"While PHRMG does not condone rock-throwing, it is by all means not punishable by death. Yet this is how the Israeli Army answers a kid who throws rocks-by shooting live ammunition at them. Young Kamal happened to be victim of a stray bullet, even though he was tending his matters in school."

Human rights group higlights Israeli murder of Palestinian children

Random "honor killings" by Muslim fundamentalists don't equate to the heroic Jew's official state dogma of ethnic cleansing, i.e., killing children for land.


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## JStone (May 6, 2012)

*Mother Kills Raped Daughter To Restore 'Honor'*  



> ABU QASH, West Bank &#8212; Raped by her brothers and impregnated, Rofayda Qaoud refused to commit suicide, her mother recalls, even after she bought the 17-year-old a razor with which to slit her wrists.
> 
> So Amira Abu Hanhan Qaoud says she did what she believes any good Palestinian parent would: restored her family's "honor" through murder.
> 
> ...



 


> Maria's Grotto, A Documentary About Honor Killings In Palestine A gripping portrait of women, whose lives were dictated by a moral code, Maria's Grotto explores honor killings in Palestine through the stories of four women: one is wrongly accused of dishonoring her family and then murdered; the second dies after being forced by her brothers to swallow poison; the third survives repeated stabbings inflicted by her brother; and the fourth is a Hip-hop singer who dares speak out about honor killings, and faces death threats.



*LiveLeak.com - Maria's Grotto, A Documentary About Honor Killings In Palestine*


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## georgephillip (May 6, 2012)

"Victims' rights groups say the number of 'honor crimes' appears to be climbing, but at the same time, getting little attention. *Israelis and Palestinians are too busy with political and military issues* to notice what they dismiss as domestic disputes, says Suad Abu-Dayyeh, who works for the Women's Center for Legal Aid and Counseling in East Jerusalem.

"Poverty and war have exacerbated the problem, says Nadera Shalhoub-Kevorkian, a social work and criminology professor at Hebrew University in Jerusalem and an expert on violence against women. '*Men do not have any power except over women*,' she says." 

Once again the illegal Jewish occupation of Palestine makes life even worse for the most vulnerable.

The Seattle Times: Nation & World: Mother kills raped daughter to restore 'honor'


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## SAYIT (May 6, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> "Within 24 hours of the attack, the United States Navy convened a formal Court of Inquiry into that attack - a standard investigative procedure reserved for such serious events or circumstances.
> 
> "This procedure was unusual in only one respect - the President and members appointed to the Court of Inquiry by the Commander in Chief, U.S. Naval Forces, Europe (CINCUSNAVEUR), headquartered in London, were directed orally by the appointing authority to *conduct and complete their investigative proceedings within one week* - a most unusual requirement in light of the nature and magnitude of the events they were ordered to investigate."
> 
> ...



How many US gov't inquiries are required to satisfy you? Must we continue to investigate until one comes to your conclusions? 
Source: Wikipedia:
U.S. Naval Court of Inquiry of June 1967
 Joint Chief of Staff's Report of June 1967.
 CIA Intelligence Memorandums of June 1967
 Clark Clifford Report of July 1967
 Senate Foreign Relations Committee Testimony during hearings of the 1967 Foreign Aid Authorization bill, July 1967
 House Armed Services Committee Investigation of 1971
 The NSA History Report of 1981


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## SAYIT (May 6, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> "Victims' rights groups say the number of 'honor crimes' appears to be climbing, but at the same time, getting little attention. *Israelis and Palestinians are too busy with political and military issues* to notice what they dismiss as domestic disputes, says Suad Abu-Dayyeh, who works for the Women's Center for Legal Aid and Counseling in East Jerusalem.
> 
> "Poverty and war have exacerbated the problem, says Nadera Shalhoub-Kevorkian, a social work and criminology professor at Hebrew University in Jerusalem and an expert on violence against women. '*Men do not have any power except over women*,' she says."
> 
> ...



Yeah, everyone knows how well women are treated in the rest of the Arab/Muslim World.


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## georgephillip (May 6, 2012)

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > "Within 24 hours of the attack, the United States Navy convened a formal Court of Inquiry into that attack - a standard investigative procedure reserved for such serious events or circumstances.
> ...


None of those reports dealt with culpability and the attack on Liberty remains the only incident of its kind that has never been investigated by the entire US Congress.

"The U.S. Naval Court of Inquiry record contains testimony by fourteen Liberty crew members and five subject matter experts; exhibits of attack damage photographs, various messages and memorandums; and findings of fact. 

"The testimony record reveals 'a shallow investigation, plagued by myriad disagreements between the captain and his crew.'[46] As to culpability, 'It was not the responsibility of the court to rule on the culpability of the attackers, and no evidence was heard from the attacking nation', the court concluded that 'available evidence combines to indicate ... (that the attack was) a case of mistaken identity.' Additionally, the Court found that 'heroism displayed by the Commanding Officer, officers and men of the Liberty was exceptional."

"The Joint Chief of Staff's Report contains *findings of fact related only to communication system failures* associated with the Liberty attack. It was not concerned with matters of culpability, nor does it contain statements thereof..."

USS Liberty incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## georgephillip (May 6, 2012)

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > "Victims' rights groups say the number of 'honor crimes' appears to be climbing, but at the same time, getting little attention. *Israelis and Palestinians are too busy with political and military issues* to notice what they dismiss as domestic disputes, says Suad Abu-Dayyeh, who works for the Women's Center for Legal Aid and Counseling in East Jerusalem.
> ...


*How many US children have the Arabs murdered lately?*

"These results provide strong evidence that the Gulf war and trade sanctions caused a threefold increase in mortality among Iraqi children under five years of age. We estimate that an *excess of more than 46,900 children died between January and August 1991*. (N Engl J Med 1992;327:931&#8211;6.)"

MMS: Error


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## Jos (May 6, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHbIL8YIM0w&feature=share]~McCain confronted about father&#39;s coverup of Israels attack on USS Liberty~ - YouTube[/ame]


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## georgephillip (May 6, 2012)

Jos said:


> ~McCain confronted about father&#39;s coverup of Israels attack on USS Liberty~ - YouTube


Proving yet again that some songbirds don't plop far from their 1% nest.
When Justice arrives for the crew of the Liberty, watch McCain turn bright yellow (again)


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## rhodescholar (May 6, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> When Justice arrives for the crew of the Liberty, watch McCain turn bright yellow (again)



It must suck to go through life as a mentally ill fucking idiot.  The sooner that vermin like you and the turd "jos" die, the better this world will be.


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## rhodescholar (May 6, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> None of those reports dealt with culpability



It is truly sad to watch the mentally ill lowlifes of this world be given a forum on which to spew their BS.  In a normal situation, you just would walk past this filth as it huddled in the corner of the gutter, with a sign asking for money placed in front of it.  

But the times will change, the internet will modernize, and the garbage filth like this douchebag will be cleansed off like dogshit from the sidewalk.


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## JStone (May 6, 2012)

> SURIF, West Bank -- A 20-year-old Palestinian woman who was thrown into a well and left to die in the name of "family honor" has not become just another statistic in one of the Middle East's most shameful practices.
> 
> The killing of Aya Baradiya &#8211; by an uncle who didn't like a potential suitor &#8211; sparked such outrage that Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas scrapped laws this week that guaranteed sentences of six months or less for such killings.
> 
> ...



Winston Churchill...


> How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
> 
> The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
> 
> ...


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## georgephillip (May 7, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > None of those reports dealt with culpability
> ...


Or you could lick the dog shit off the sidewalk like a good bitch.


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## JStone (May 7, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> rhodescholar said:
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Not nice to insult Jesus Christ, King of Israel.  Enjoy hell, motherfucker  



> John 12:13 They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting,  Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Blessed is the king of Israel!


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## ima (May 8, 2012)

If you're not Jewish, the destruction of Israel wouldn't affect you "personally". And even for Jews outside of Israel, it's not a "personal" tragedy because they're not destroying Judaism, just some random landmass.


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## rhodescholar (May 8, 2012)

ima said:


> If you're not Jewish, the destruction of Israel wouldn't affect you "personally". And even for Jews outside of Israel, it's not a "personal" tragedy because they're not destroying Judaism, just some random landmass.



Ask the irish if they would appreciate it if England carpet-bombed ireland.


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## rhodescholar (May 8, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Or you could lick



How's the view from the mental hospital lounge?  Do they let you go outside everyday like they used to?


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## ima (May 8, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > If you're not Jewish, the destruction of Israel wouldn't affect you "personally". And even for Jews outside of Israel, it's not a "personal" tragedy because they're not destroying Judaism, just some random landmass.
> ...



Irish is a nationality. Jewish is a religion. Got a relevant argument?


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## JStone (May 8, 2012)

ima said:


> If you're not Jewish, the destruction of Israel wouldn't affect you "personally". And even for Jews outside of Israel, it's not a "personal" tragedy because they're not destroying Judaism, just some random landmass.



IMA DUNCE







Massachussets Institute of Technology [MIT]...


> As a world leader in science and technology, Israel excels in such areas as genetics, medicine, agriculture, computer sciences, electronics, optics, and engineering. Scientists at Israeli universities such as Bar Ilan University, Ben Gurion University, Haifa University, Hebrew University, The Technion--Israel Institute of Technology, Tel Aviv University and the Weizmann Institute of Science are pioneers in areas such as stem cell-based tissue engineering, nanotechnology, high-resolution electron microscopy, and solar energy. Israeli companies have developed such diverse products as the first anti-virus package, technologies that allow you to leave voice mail on mobile phones, and stents that save lives by keeping the arteries to the heart open.
> MISTI MIT-Israel


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## SAYIT (May 8, 2012)

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## Lipush (May 8, 2012)

ima said:


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Judaism is nationality


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## georgephillip (May 8, 2012)

Lipush said:


> ima said:
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Can you explain the distinction between citizenship and nationality in the Jewish State?
Which affords the greater rights?


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## JStone (May 8, 2012)

georgephillip said:


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Still zero reputational points, georgie? 

*Arab-American Dr. Wafa Sultan, Human Rights Activist, Among "Time Magazine's 100 Heroes and Pioneers Whose Power, Talent Or Moral Example Is Transforming Our World"*

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1975813_1975847_1976751,00.html.

*Israel - The One And The Only Free Democratic Country In The Entire Middle East.*


> I believe that any nation that grants equal opportunity to every citizen, regardless of race, religion, political affiliation, or gender, thereby, establishes its moral legitimacy.  According to this principle, Israel stands alone in the Middle East region, as a nation with moral legitimacy: it grants all citizens equal rights for men and women alike, freedom of religion, and freedom of speech and of the press. Not a single Arab or Muslim country in the surrounding region does the same. Nor do any of those Arab and Muslim nations allow their citizens personal freedom, or the right to maintain and express opposing points of view.
> 
> These essential qualities of life provide oxygen for the human soul; they are the kind of basic nourishment that is desperately missing in all of Israel's Muslim neighbors. Yet, the so-called humanitarian aid organizations at the United Nations direct all their energy to act against anything and everything Israel does. Let me ask: as every human being deserves to live in dignity, why has an enormous unbalanced portion of global aid gone mostly to Palestinians, while millions of underprivileged people all over the world suffer genuine, life-threatening deprivation?  Here is why: The United Nations time and again focuses its power on the perpetual manufacturing of false anti-Israel accusations. Painting Palestinians as perennial underdogs provides the perfect cover for their subversive effort. Without doubt, this trend encourages hatred and violence against the Jewish people in Israel and everywhere else. And that is exactly its point.
> 
> ...


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## georgephillip (May 8, 2012)

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## JStone (May 8, 2012)

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## Toddsterpatriot (May 8, 2012)

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## SAYIT (May 8, 2012)

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## georgephillip (May 8, 2012)

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## georgephillip (May 8, 2012)

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## georgephillip (May 8, 2012)

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## Toddsterpatriot (May 8, 2012)

georgephillip said:


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> 
> 
> > I love those fake reports about Iraq. So factual. LOL!
> ...



How many won't be tortured to death by Saddam and his psycho boys?

How many won't visit the rape rooms?

How do you function with such a low IQ?


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## rhodescholar (May 8, 2012)

ima said:


> Irish is a nationality. Jewish is a religion. Got a relevant argument?



In your incorrect OPINION.  Plenty of jews see themselves as a nation, but then there's always lot of idiots who try to speak for them, and what/how they should think...


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## JStone (May 8, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Irish is a nationality. Jewish is a religion. Got a relevant argument?
> ...



Genesis 12:2: "I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing.


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## rhodescholar (May 8, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> How many won't be tortured to death by Saddam and his psycho boys? How many won't visit the rape rooms? How do you function with such a low IQ?



But of course, the retarded idiot is getting defensive, because there are arab muslims slaughtering each other - all over the mideast and africa - and israel/US cannot be blamed for it.  

The one-trick pony chimps like georgie can only try to blame israel/US for all of the problems of the mideast, including the massive terrorism borne by arab muslims/iranian terrorist groups against the iraq population, even though the US was not the cause of this monstrous hatred/violence.

But if the US tosses a pebble in the ocean, and a fish dies 1,000 miles away - according to the mentally ill like georgie - it is of course the fault of the US.


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## SAYIT (May 8, 2012)

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## SAYIT (May 8, 2012)

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## Mad Scientist (May 9, 2012)

My concealed carry Glock 23 would have dispatched up to 13 of them.


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## SAYIT (May 9, 2012)

Mad Scientist said:


> My concealed carry Glock 23 would have dispatched up to 13 of them.



Not everyone in Sudan carries a concealed Glock. Consider yourself lucky to live here where not only can you afford one, you usually don't need it.


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## SAYIT (May 9, 2012)

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## georgephillip (May 9, 2012)

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## ima (May 9, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> ima said:
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> > Irish is a nationality. Jewish is a religion. Got a relevant argument?
> ...



Not all catholics would care if Ireland was carpet bombed, just like not all Jews care about Israel. And if Jews see themselves as a nation, then they're just as wrong as you are.
Check. And mate.


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## JStone (May 9, 2012)

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