# Immigration reform, what should it be



## alanbmx123

Ok dem's, progressives you don't like fences, deportations, put it on the table. What should the border look like? Wide open? How many should be allowed per year/month.  Should they have to have a sponsor, clean bill of health, immunizations, a skill that fits a specific need, background check, ID, birth certificate?
Once that is set what should happen to those that come illegally once the new comprehensive law is passed?  Do we grant amnesty every 5 years.  
Or do we set the rules and deport all who violate the law? 
We have laws in place that we chose not to follow and we have chaos now.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ShackledNation

I'm not a dem or a progressive, but I will bite anyway.

Anyone who wants to come to America and work for a better life should be allowed to come. Basic background checks, ensuring proper immunizations, a clean bill of health (no contagious diseases) should all be required. For those who cannot afford immunizations, I would hope US charities who seek to help immigrants would raise money to pay for them (which no doubt they would if given the chance).

The goal would be to ensure people coming are not criminals, and are not going to pose any health threat (a test most will pass).

I do not believe they should instantly become citizens. They should be granted a type of permanent residency status. Additionally, because our welfare system is so screwed up, and there is the possibility of abuse, I would not allow immigrants to use welfare services for a set amount of time.

I would also reform minimum wage and actually make it lower or get rid of it. Many of these people are willing to work for less, in jobs that Americans would not do anyway. Research has also shown that immigrants that work below minimum wage are not taking higher paying jobs away, but creating new jobs that would not exist if minimum wage were enforced. If all immigrant farmers were paid minimum wage, for example, it is likely that there would be less farm workers and more imports from countries with lower wages.

Those are the rules I would set. Those here now would apply for similar legal status.

The goal is that people who want to come here should be allowed to, so long as they are willing to work (which is the reason many come here anyway--jobs) as opposed to just live off of welfare.


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## C_Clayton_Jones

The reform advocated by President George W. Bush: 



> *We Must Bring Undocumented Workers Already In The Country Out Of The Shadows *
> 
> Comprehensive Immigration Reform Must Account For The Millions Of Immigrants Already In The Country Illegally.* Illegal immigration causes serious problems, putting pressure on public schools and hospitals and straining State and local budgets.* People who have worked hard, supported their families, avoided crime, led responsible lives, and become a part of American life should be called in out of the shadows and under the rule of American law.
> 
> The President Opposes An Automatic Path To Citizenship Or Any Other Form Of Amnesty.  Amnesty, as a reward for lawbreaking, would only invite further lawbreaking.* Amnesty would also be unfair to those lawful immigrants who have patiently waited their turn for citizenship and to those who are still waiting to enter the country legally.
> 
> The President Supports A Rational Middle Ground Between A Program Of Mass Deportation And A Program Of Automatic Amnesty.* It is neither wise nor realistic to round up and deport millions of illegal immigrants in the United States. But there should be no automatic path to citizenship. * The President supports a rational middle ground founded on the following basic tenets:
> 
> No Amnesty. Workers who have entered the country illegally and workers who have overstayed their visas must pay a substantial penalty for their illegal conduct.
> 
> In Addition To Paying A Meaningful Penalty, Undocumented Workers Must Learn English, Pay Their Taxes, Pass A Background Check, And Hold A Job For A Number Of Years Before They Will Be Eligible To Be Considered For Legalized Status.
> 
> Any Undocumented Worker Seeking Citizenship Must Go To The "Back Of The Line."* The program should not reward illegal conduct by making participants eligible for citizenship ahead of those who have played by the rules and followed the law.* Instead, program participants must wait their turn at the back of the line.
> 
> President Bush's Plan For Comprehensive Immigration Reform


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## alanbmx123

there we go again making it simple and to the point.  Agree with both.  yet nothing can get done, still waiting for the progressive plan


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## Moonglow

progressive insurance has a plan for immigration?

They are a little busy right now...


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## cutter

We have immigration laws on the book now. All we have to do is follow the law. We don't have a broken immigration system, we have a government that isn't following the laws they took an oath to uphold. Enforce the current laws, deport illegals, secure the border, problem solved.


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## ShackledNation

cutter said:


> We have immigration laws on the book now. All we have to do is follow the law. We don't have a broken immigration system, we have a government that isn't following the laws they took an oath to uphold. Enforce the current laws, deport illegals, secure the border, problem solved.


Deporting illegal immigrants instantly, especially children, would actually violate current immigration laws. Changing that would require a new law. Securing the border would require expending resources that must be allocated by Congress, which would also require a new law.

The argument of "just enforce the law" is silly. The law is broken.


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## cutter

ShackledNation said:


> cutter said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have immigration laws on the book now. All we have to do is follow the law. We don't have a broken immigration system, we have a government that isn't following the laws they took an oath to uphold. Enforce the current laws, deport illegals, secure the border, problem solved.
> 
> 
> 
> Deporting illegal immigrants instantly, especially children, would actually violate current immigration laws. Changing that would require a new law. Securing the border would require expending resources that must be allocated by Congress, which would also require a new law.
> 
> The argument of "just enforce the law" is silly. The law is broken.
Click to expand...


What have we become when enforcing current law is just sills. It's illegal to not enforce the law. If the law says we have to keep the children then keep them and send all the adults home. Saying we can't afford to secpure the border is just silly. Dems won't spend a dime on security but tell us we can afford to take in another few million poor and uneducated. Screw the rest of the world and keep our borders secure.


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## Rikurzhen

ShackledNation said:


> I'm not a dem or a progressive, but I will bite anyway.
> 
> Anyone who wants to come to America and work for a better life should be allowed to come.



I find your formulation very interesting for it runs counter to how people have understood the concept of immigration and your definition is becoming fairly widely held.

The historical understanding of immigration was that it was a two-sided arrangement. A potential immigrant would express desire to join a country and the government of that country would decide whether to INVITE the immigrant into joining society.

You on the other hand don't seem to care at all whether the people of the US, collectively represented by their government, want these immigrants - it's all up to the immigrant.

I'd love to see this concept applied to house guests. A house guest gets to force his presence in your home simply because he wants to live there and you get no say in the matter. I mean, if it's good enough to work at the immigrant level, shouldn't this same model work well at the house-guest level too?


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## ShackledNation

Rikurzhen said:


> ShackledNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a dem or a progressive, but I will bite anyway.
> 
> Anyone who wants to come to America and work for a better life should be allowed to come.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I find your formulation very interesting for it runs counter to how people have understood the concept of immigration and your definition is becoming fairly widely held.
> 
> The historical understanding of immigration was that it was a two-sided arrangement. A potential immigrant would express desire to join a country and the government of that country would decide whether to INVITE the immigrant into joining society.
> 
> You on the other hand don't seem to care at all whether the people of the US, collectively represented by their government, want these immigrants - it's all up to the immigrant.
> 
> I'd love to see this concept applied to house guests. A house guest gets to force his presence in your home simply because he wants to live there and you get no say in the matter. I mean, if it's good enough to work at the immigrant level, shouldn't this same model work well at the house-guest level too?
Click to expand...

Actually, until the late 19th century, anyone could immigrate to the United States legally. Your historical understanding is lacking.

Many employers, being people of the US, want these immigrants, you just want to use government to prohibit employers from hiring them.

Horrible analogy. Imagine that someone was willing to buy your house, you wanted them to buy it, but then government came in and said "sorry, that person cannot live here." _That_ is the proper analogy.


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## ShackledNation

cutter said:


> ShackledNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cutter said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have immigration laws on the book now. All we have to do is follow the law. We don't have a broken immigration system, we have a government that isn't following the laws they took an oath to uphold. Enforce the current laws, deport illegals, secure the border, problem solved.
> 
> 
> 
> Deporting illegal immigrants instantly, especially children, would actually violate current immigration laws. Changing that would require a new law. Securing the border would require expending resources that must be allocated by Congress, which would also require a new law.
> 
> The argument of "just enforce the law" is silly. The law is broken.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What have we become when enforcing current law is just sills. It's illegal to not enforce the law. *If the law says we have to keep the children then keep them*
Click to expand...

That is what is being enforced. Ironic in that you just a moment ago were saying the law was not being enforced because they weren't being deported.



> Saying we can't afford to secpure the border is just silly. Dems won't spend a dime on security but tell us we can afford to take in another few million poor and uneducated. Screw the rest of the world and keep our borders secure.


What are you going on about? That has nothing to do with anything I said.


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## PoliticalTorch

alanbmx123 said:


> Ok dem's, progressives you don't like fences, deportations, put it on the table. What should the border look like? Wide open? How many should be allowed per year/month.  Should they have to have a sponsor, clean bill of health, immunizations, a skill that fits a specific need, background check, ID, birth certificate?
> Once that is set what should happen to those that come illegally once the new comprehensive law is passed?  Do we grant amnesty every 5 years.
> Or do we set the rules and deport all who violate the law?
> We have laws in place that we chose not to follow and we have chaos now.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


In answer to your questions I feel that you first need to know and understand about the law that President George W. Bush signed in 2008 called William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008. That effectively ties the hands of President Obama as he has to follow the former President's law on what to do with the refugee children coming from Central America.

Hume: Obama 'for Better or for Worse' Is Following Law on Border Crisis


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## Big Black Dog

Immigration reform, what should it be?

Very strict control of all boarders.  People here illegally should be immediately deported.  Illegal aliens are just like cockroaches.  You get a few in the house and the next thing you know, you're over-run with them.


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## eagle1462010

Green Card Through a Job | USCIS

We have a process already in place.  A process that is ignored for the most part.

If Companies want to use cheaper labor then they must do the paperwork to hire immigrants through the normal channels.  They don't want to do that, because then they may have to pay higher wages than they are paying illegals.  

Those companies hiring illegals should be held accountable for doing so and not going through the process.  Force those hiring to obey the law, or pay a penalty.  A citizenship I.D. process could actually do the same.

If the process is nearly impossible, and I've heard it is..........then streamline the red tape of the green card hiring process to mitigate the problem.


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## Jughead

The only way in which to secure the border would be to have a wall extending coast to coast and guard towers with armed guards. However, this would take a significant amount of time and resources to implement. A better solution would be to implement a policy where any employer who is caught hiring an illegal would be required (no exception) to do jail time and pay a hefty fine. As employers start going to jail, you would see a sharp drop in the number of illegals in the workforce. No one wants to go to jail. Illegals would be forced back to their countries of origin as they would have no source of income.

Amnesty will not work because after you grant amnesty to a group of illegals, you'll have a new group waiting. The cycle will just repeat itself. Not to mention that granting amnesty would be unfair to the immigrants who go through the process, and become citizens the legal way, undergoing background checks, paying the required fees, and waiting their turn in line.


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## MaryL

Good thread, Fred. We NEVER ever should offer amnesty, ever, that is a deal breaker. I know you are asking democrats for a reply, I notice no liberal democrats bother to rely. I remember when our  borders were open. Nobody cared if this or that person wandered over the border. Really. Canadian, Mexican, nobody cared much. Small potatoes. Well, since Regan's amnesty back in 86, things just got WORSE. it's getting to be I hear Spanish more often than English. I live almost a 1000 miles from the border! I am tired of this passive aggressive invasion by Mexico, with this victimhood persona. They are just interloping invaders. I will never accept them as immigrants or Americans. Just interlopers. Good thread.


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## cutter

ShackledNation said:


> cutter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShackledNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deporting illegal immigrants instantly, especially children, would actually violate current immigration laws. Changing that would require a new law. Securing the border would require expending resources that must be allocated by Congress, which would also require a new law.
> 
> The argument of "just enforce the law" is silly. The law is broken.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What have we become when enforcing current law is just sills. It's illegal to not enforce the law. *If the law says we have to keep the children then keep them*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is what is being enforced. Ironic in that you just a moment ago were saying the law was not being enforced because they weren't being deported.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saying we can't afford to secpure the border is just silly. Dems won't spend a dime on security but tell us we can afford to take in another few million poor and uneducated. Screw the rest of the world and keep our borders secure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are you going on about? That has nothing to do with anything I said.
Click to expand...

Typical progressive crap. Take a statement out of context and use as proof of something. O.K. you win SEND THEM ALL HOME, you've finally convinced me of something.


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## Malamute

End the family chain migration.  Limit family sponsorship to spouse and minor children only but up the requirements of financial support.

Instead of family sponsorship, allow anyone to sponsor an immigrant but if and only if they will agree and be required to provide all the financial support of their immigrant --- pay all medical bills, education costs, housing costs for the entire stay of the immigrant.  No immigrant should receive food stamps, Medicaid, or any government handouts, that should be the duty of the sponsor.


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## ShackledNation

MaryL said:


> Good thread, Fred. We NEVER ever should offer amnesty, ever, that is a deal breaker. I know you are asking democrats for a reply, I notice no liberal democrats bother to rely. I remember when our  borders were open. Nobody cared if this or that person wandered over the border. Really. Canadian, Mexican, nobody cared much. Small potatoes. Well, since Regan's amnesty back in 86, things just got WORSE. it's getting to be I hear Spanish more often than English. I live almost a 1000 miles from the border! I am tired of this passive aggressive invasion by Mexico, with this victimhood persona. They are just interloping invaders. I will never accept them as immigrants or Americans. Just interlopers. Good thread.


What city do you live in where you hear more Spanish than English? Just curious.


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## pismoe

stop all immigration legal and illegal .   Build that wall and deport , no family reunification !!  When immigration is restarted be very selective in who is allowed to immigrate .   I'LL do the selecting if i'm still around .


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## pismoe

probably hear as much Spanish as English in L.A. especially in the city center .


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## Windship

Build a wall. Gate closed. We have enough people already. "oh, but my country is poor and I want in"....


fukkin sucks to be you then, huh?


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## Windship

ShackledNation said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good thread, Fred. We NEVER ever should offer amnesty, ever, that is a deal breaker. I know you are asking democrats for a reply, I notice no liberal democrats bother to rely. I remember when our  borders were open. Nobody cared if this or that person wandered over the border. Really. Canadian, Mexican, nobody cared much. Small potatoes. Well, since Regan's amnesty back in 86, things just got WORSE. it's getting to be I hear Spanish more often than English. I live almost a 1000 miles from the border! I am tired of this passive aggressive invasion by Mexico, with this victimhood persona. They are just interloping invaders. I will never accept them as immigrants or Americans. Just interlopers. Good thread.
> 
> 
> 
> What city do you live in where you hear more Spanish than English? Just curious.
Click to expand...


lol...Im in LA County. Very simple. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting someone talking mex.  It's everywhere. Sometimes you hear nothing but mex. Mex news papers and mags. Advertisement in mex. TV stations in mex. There are more radio stations im mex than English...fact. I moved here from Ma. 2 yrs ago and let me tell you, ..it...is....friggin....unbelievable what is going on here. 
 Everyone that cares pro or con, should take a trip to the South West and see for yourself.


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## Windship

furthermore...the mex don't WANT to speak English. The hate it. They want to turn the SW back into mex.


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## ShackledNation

Windship said:


> ShackledNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good thread, Fred. We NEVER ever should offer amnesty, ever, that is a deal breaker. I know you are asking democrats for a reply, I notice no liberal democrats bother to rely. I remember when our  borders were open. Nobody cared if this or that person wandered over the border. Really. Canadian, Mexican, nobody cared much. Small potatoes. Well, since Regan's amnesty back in 86, things just got WORSE. it's getting to be I hear Spanish more often than English. I live almost a 1000 miles from the border! I am tired of this passive aggressive invasion by Mexico, with this victimhood persona. They are just interloping invaders. I will never accept them as immigrants or Americans. Just interlopers. Good thread.
> 
> 
> 
> What city do you live in where you hear more Spanish than English? Just curious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> lol...Im in LA County. Very simple. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting someone talking mex.  It's everywhere. Sometimes you hear nothing but mex. Mex news papers and mags. Advertisement in mex. TV stations in mex. There are more radio stations im mex than English...fact. I moved here from Ma. 2 yrs ago and let me tell you, ..it...is....friggin....unbelievable what is going on here.
> Everyone that cares pro or con, should take a trip to the South West and see for yourself.
Click to expand...

First of all, I was not asking you. Second of all, I also live in L.A. county. But I hear more English than Spanish pretty much everywhere. Mex is not a language, by the way. Yes, there is a lot of Spanish. Still more English. Perhaps your prejudice is giving you selective hearing.

If you don't like hearing languages other than English, don't move to a common destination for immigrants that is also one of the most cosmopolitan regions in the United States.


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## Rikurzhen

ShackledNation said:


> If you don't like hearing languages other than English, *don't move* to a common destination for immigrants that is also one of the most cosmopolitan regions in the United States.



Your response of "don't move" seems appropriate because he did say he moved to the region. You got lucky with that.

What though do you tell a California resident who was born there?

In 1940 the Hispanic population of California was 415,113 and the white population was 6,181,650 from a total population of 6,907,387. White, non-Hispanics, accounted for 89.5% of the population. What is your suggestion to someone alive today who was born in 1940 and makes the same complaint?


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## Crystalclear

I'm not a liberal, but the only way to stop illegal immigration is securing the border with guards and a security fence.


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## Windship

ShackledNation said:


> Windship said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShackledNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> What city do you live in where you hear more Spanish than English? Just curious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol...Im in LA County. Very simple. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting someone talking mex.  It's everywhere. Sometimes you hear nothing but mex. Mex news papers and mags. Advertisement in mex. TV stations in mex. There are more radio stations im mex than English...fact. I moved here from Ma. 2 yrs ago and let me tell you, ..it...is....friggin....unbelievable what is going on here.
> Everyone that cares pro or con, should take a trip to the South West and see for yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> First of all, I was not asking you. Second of all, I also live in L.A. county. But I hear more English than Spanish pretty much everywhere. Mex is not a language, by the way. Yes, there is a lot of Spanish. Still more English. Perhaps your prejudice is giving you selective hearing.
> 
> If you don't like hearing languages other than English, don't move to a common destination for immigrants that is also one of the most cosmopolitan regions in the United States.
Click to expand...


Your right...no problem here in so cal.
lol
So, it's my fault that I want Mexicans to have enough respect for my country to learn the language. Mexicans don't want to learn English they want to transform the so west into mexico. Are you going to try to tell me you never heard that before because I have been hearing that ever since I was a kid and evidence of this is all over. Are you blind and deaf? Maybe you just live in an area where there are no mex. And when the mex stop calling the whites "piche gringo" Ill stop with the mex shit, k?


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## Windship

Crystalclear said:


> I'm not a liberal, but the only way to stop illegal immigration is securing the border with guards and a security fence.



Ity really hasn't got anything to do with D or R. What it has to do with is whether or not you want illegals, and the mal effects they cause, in our country. This lie that ppl use of being a racist is bullshit. I'm not a racist. If that's all you have than use it, I guess.


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## ShackledNation

Rikurzhen said:


> ShackledNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't like hearing languages other than English, *don't move* to a common destination for immigrants that is also one of the most cosmopolitan regions in the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your response of "don't move" seems appropriate because he did say he moved to the region. You got lucky with that.
> 
> What though do you tell a California resident who was born there?
> 
> In 1940 the Hispanic population of California was 415,113 and the white population was 6,181,650 from a total population of 6,907,387. White, non-Hispanics, accounted for 89.5% of the population. What is your suggestion to someone alive today who was born in 1940 and makes the same complaint?
Click to expand...

As a native-born California resident, I would tell them to stop being afraid of people with darker skin and get over their xenophobia. I would also remind them that many of the people who are speaking Spanish are also native born Californians. 

Or, if they hate it so much, I'd tell them to move out. Plenty of cheaper states to go if you are that unhappy having Spanish-speaking neighbors (most of whom speak English well enough to get by, but prefer Spanish with each other...totally reasonable). There are also plenty of regions in CA where there are very few Spanish speaking people. Just move near the Oregon border.

Why are people so offended that other people speak a different language? For goodness sake there are 6,500 spoken languages in the world.  There are more native Spanish-speakers in the world than native English speakers. If every time you hear someone speak Spanish you think society is going to hell, you need to take a serious chill pill and ctfd.


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## ShackledNation

Windship said:


> ShackledNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Windship said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol...Im in LA County. Very simple. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting someone talking mex.  It's everywhere. Sometimes you hear nothing but mex. Mex news papers and mags. Advertisement in mex. TV stations in mex. There are more radio stations im mex than English...fact. I moved here from Ma. 2 yrs ago and let me tell you, ..it...is....friggin....unbelievable what is going on here.
> Everyone that cares pro or con, should take a trip to the South West and see for yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, I was not asking you. Second of all, I also live in L.A. county. But I hear more English than Spanish pretty much everywhere. Mex is not a language, by the way. Yes, there is a lot of Spanish. Still more English. Perhaps your prejudice is giving you selective hearing.
> 
> If you don't like hearing languages other than English, don't move to a common destination for immigrants that is also one of the most cosmopolitan regions in the United States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your right...no problem here in so cal.
> lol
> So, it's my fault that I want Mexicans to have enough respect for my country to learn the language. Mexicans don't want to learn English they want to transform the so west into mexico. Are you going to try to tell me you never heard that before because I have been hearing that ever since I was a kid and evidence of this is all over. Are you blind and deaf? Maybe you just live in an area where there are no mex. And when the mex stop calling the whites "piche gringo" Ill stop with the mex shit, k?
Click to expand...

That's right. People speaking Spanish is not a problem, unless of course you are a xenophobe.

Most Spanish-speakers do know English well enough, they just know Spanish better (it being their native language) so that is what they speak among their friends and family. The horror!! 

This is not _your_ country or _my_ country, it is _our_ country. And people speak lots of different languages, and that is fine. I am also glad to see that you have decided to stoop to the level of those immigrants who are disrespectful. That will definitely solve the problems we have. Your attitude is a reason why some Mexicans hate Americans in the first place. Way to contribute to the problem.


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## Rikurzhen

ShackledNation said:


> Rikurzhen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShackledNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't like hearing languages other than English, *don't move* to a common destination for immigrants that is also one of the most cosmopolitan regions in the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your response of "don't move" seems appropriate because he did say he moved to the region. You got lucky with that.
> 
> What though do you tell a California resident who was born there?
> 
> In 1940 the Hispanic population of California was 415,113 and the white population was 6,181,650 from a total population of 6,907,387. White, non-Hispanics, accounted for 89.5% of the population. What is your suggestion to someone alive today who was born in 1940 and makes the same complaint?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As a native-born California resident,* I would tell them to stop being afraid of people with darker skin and get over their xenophobia.* I would also remind them that many of the people who are speaking Spanish are also native born Californians.
Click to expand...


I just shake my head here. Why do guys like you have to go full retard in order to defend your position? Afraid and xenophobia? And I'm supposed to treat what you write seriously?

Humanity has known for thousands of years that diversity destroys social bonds. Wanting to enjoy strong ties to your community doesn't make you afraid of different people, it simply means that you place higher value on a rich and sharing community life than you do on some leftist notion that diversity adds strength to your society despite the fact that we've known that "to divide is to conquer" for thousands of years.

A bleak picture of the corrosive effects of ethnic diversity has been revealed in research by Harvard University&#8217;s Robert Putnam, one of the world&#8217;s most influential political scientists.

His research shows that the more diverse a community is, the less likely its inhabitants are to trust anyone &#8211; from their next-door neighbour to the mayor. . . 

The core message of the research was that, &#8220;in the presence of diversity, we hunker down&#8221;, he said. &#8220;We act like turtles. The effect of diversity is worse than had been imagined. *And it&#8217;s not just that we don&#8217;t trust people who are not like us. In diverse communities, we don&#8217;t trust people who do look like us*.&#8221; . . . 

When the data were adjusted for class, income and other factors, they showed that the more people of different races lived in the same community, the greater the loss of trust. &#8220;They don&#8217;t trust the local mayor, they don&#8217;t trust the local paper, they don&#8217;t trust other people and they don&#8217;t trust institutions,&#8221; said Prof Putnam. &#8220;The only thing there&#8217;s more of is protest marches and TV watching.&#8221;​
There's a reason that L.A. is going to hell in a handbasket - people are cocooning away, the loss of civic engagement increases year after year.



> Or, if they hate it so much, I'd tell them to move out.



Did you tell that to homosexuals who wanted to marry other homosexuals? Tell them to move to Canada or Sweden? If not, why not?


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## ShackledNation

Rikurzhen said:


> ShackledNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rikurzhen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your response of "don't move" seems appropriate because he did say he moved to the region. You got lucky with that.
> 
> What though do you tell a California resident who was born there?
> 
> In 1940 the Hispanic population of California was 415,113 and the white population was 6,181,650 from a total population of 6,907,387. White, non-Hispanics, accounted for 89.5% of the population. What is your suggestion to someone alive today who was born in 1940 and makes the same complaint?
> 
> 
> 
> As a native-born California resident,* I would tell them to stop being afraid of people with darker skin and get over their xenophobia.* I would also remind them that many of the people who are speaking Spanish are also native born Californians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just shake my head here. Why do guys like you have to go full retard in order to defend your position? Afraid and xenophobia? And I'm supposed to treat what you write seriously?
> 
> Humanity has known for thousands of years that diversity destroys social bonds. Wanting to enjoy strong ties to your community doesn't make you afraid of different people, it simply means that you place higher value on a rich and sharing community life than you do on some leftist notion that diversity adds strength to your society despite the fact that we've known that "to divide is to conquer" for thousands of years.
> 
> A bleak picture of the corrosive effects of ethnic diversity has been revealed in research by Harvard Universitys Robert Putnam, one of the worlds most influential political scientists.
> 
> His research shows that the more diverse a community is, the less likely its inhabitants are to trust anyone  from their next-door neighbour to the mayor. . .
> 
> The core message of the research was that, in the presence of diversity, we hunker down, he said. We act like turtles. The effect of diversity is worse than had been imagined. *And its not just that we dont trust people who are not like us. In diverse communities, we dont trust people who do look like us*. . . .
> 
> When the data were adjusted for class, income and other factors, they showed that the more people of different races lived in the same community, the greater the loss of trust. They dont trust the local mayor, they dont trust the local paper, they dont trust other people and they dont trust institutions, said Prof Putnam. The only thing theres more of is protest marches and TV watching.​
> There's a reason that L.A. is going to hell in a handbasket - people are cocooning away, the loss of civic engagement increases year after year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or, if they hate it so much, I'd tell them to move out.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

You are complaining that the white population relative the the hispanic populaton in CA is declining, call it a problem, and expect me to treat you as anything but a xenophobic racist? I mean come one. You basically spelled out your true feelings in black and white.

Diversity does not destroy social bonds. Bigots do. Diversity just reveals who those bigots really are.



> Did you tell that to homosexuals who wanted to marry other homosexuals? Tell them to move to Canada or Sweden? If not, why not?


No. I would tell them to fight for their rights. Living in an all-white state, however, is not a right. What a stupid comparison.


----------



## BillyP

Establish a minimum IQ, and a money threshold. Any illegal without cash or brains gets the boot.


----------



## MaryL

I don't know what it should be, but I know as NATIVE  Coloradan I don't like out of staters flooding here and dominating the place. With the marijuana, fracking or the illegal aliens.Oh, then there is this "light rail" boondoggle these carpetbaggers shoved down our collective throats. I am not liking  liberals right now, they are not so much the friend of man as well meaning idiots. I will never ever vote again  for a democrat/liberal, ever again. Fool me once, shame on me...you know the rest, at least you SHOULD.


----------



## BillyP

Reform immigration to stop letting in beaners, arabs and Africans. That would probably do it.


----------



## Unkotare

Windship said:


> Build a wall. Gate closed. We have enough people already.



As soon as YOU leave.


----------



## Unkotare

BillyP said:


> Reform immigration to stop letting in beaners, arabs and Africans. That would probably do it.



What "would probably do it" would be to get rid of useless loser like you.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> I don't know what it should be, but I know as NATIVE  Coloradan I don't like out of staters flooding here and dominating the place.



That's too fucking bad for you, isn't it? I can just imagine you sitting on your porch - barefoot, cigarette dangling, surrounded by furniture that's supposed to be inside - glaring balefully at the cars passing by if you don't personally recognize the driver. When you own the entire fucking state someone may give a shit what you "don't like." Until then, keep your Geritol hole shut.


----------



## Unkotare

BillyP said:


> Establish a minimum IQ...




 You'd be at the front of the line for deportation!


----------



## Unkotare

Windship said:


> lol...Im in LA County. Very simple. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting someone talking mex.  It's everywhere. Sometimes you hear nothing but mex. Mex news papers and mags. Advertisement in mex. TV stations in mex. There are more radio stations im mex than English...fact. I moved here from Ma. 2 yrs ago and let me tell you, ..it...is....friggin....unbelievable what is going on here.
> Everyone that cares pro or con, should take a trip to the South West and see for yourself.




"Mex" is not a language, you ignorant buffoon.


----------



## BillyP

Unkotare said:


> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> Establish a minimum IQ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'd be at the front of the line for deportation!
Click to expand...

Hey it's the poo dripping internet bully! Still have nothing relevant to say? Gee, what a fucking surprise.


----------



## BillyP

Unkotare said:


> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reform immigration to stop letting in beaners, arabs and Africans. That would probably do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What "would probably do it" would be to get rid of useless loser like you.
Click to expand...

No, just beaners, Arabs, Africans and poo drippers. Buh-Bye!


----------



## Unkotare

BillyP said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reform immigration to stop letting in beaners, arabs and Africans. That would probably do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What "would probably do it" would be to get rid of useless loser like you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, just beaners, Arabs, Africans
Click to expand...



No, just whiny, idiotic cowards like you. Of course, I can't imagine a nation on earth that would take you, but that's your problem.


----------



## Wry Catcher

alanbmx123 said:


> Ok dem's, progressives you don't like fences, deportations, put it on the table. What should the border look like? Wide open? How many should be allowed per year/month.  Should they have to have a sponsor, clean bill of health, immunizations, a skill that fits a specific need, background check, ID, birth certificate?
> Once that is set what should happen to those that come illegally once the new comprehensive law is passed?  Do we grant amnesty every 5 years.
> Or do we set the rules and deport all who violate the law?
> We have laws in place that we chose not to follow and we have chaos now.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Comprehensive Immigration Reform is much more than a law enforcement issue focused entirely on the immigrant. Prostitution would not thrive if there were no Johns'.  Fines, suspension of licenses and jail sentences need to be part of the solution - only then will the flow of people crossing our border slow.

Allowing local and/or state LEO's the power, and providing the funding to enforce labor laws is the first order of business. Closing down the restaurants, contractors and other private sector employers who hire (and many times exploit) those here illegally is the first step to gaining control.

Those who have been in our country for a decade or more, and have no criminal record, must be granted the opportunity to remain here, though they and their employer must pay into the tax systems they have illegally avoided.

Given the legitimate concerns with terrorism, we do need to secure our borders - it's too bad that the Congress of the United States is broken beyond repair, and that the voters are too dumb to see the danger of partisanship which has placed all of us in danger.


----------



## BillyP

Unkotare said:


> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reform immigration to stop letting in beaners, arabs and Africans. That would probably do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What "would probably do it" would be to get rid of useless loser like you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, just beaners, Arabs, Africans
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, just whiny, idiotic cowards like you. Of course, I can't imagine a nation on earth that would take you, but that's your problem.
Click to expand...

You erased: and poo drippers like you. And any feral negros I should add.


----------



## Unkotare

The border is thataway, BillyPussy. Start walking.


----------



## BillyP

Unkotare said:


> The border is thataway, BillyPussy. Start walking.


You can see the border from your casa? Roll me a burrito you fucking poo dripping beaner lover.


----------



## Unkotare

BillyP said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The border is thataway, BillyPussy. Start walking.
> 
> 
> 
> You can see the border from your casa?
Click to expand...



In a way. Now GTFO of my country, loser.


----------



## BillyP

Unkotare said:


> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The border is thataway, BillyPussy. Start walking.
> 
> 
> 
> You can see the border from your casa?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In a way. Now GTFO of my country, loser.
Click to expand...

In a way? So you can see the border from your prison cell!


----------



## Unkotare

BillyP said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The border is thataway, BillyPussy. Start walking.
> 
> 
> 
> You can see the border from your casa?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In a way. Now GTFO of my country, loser.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In a way? So you can see the border from your prison cell!
Click to expand...



I can just about see the ocean from my house. Now GTFO of my country, loser.


----------



## Wry Catcher

Pissing contests are very boring and serve no purpose.


----------



## ScienceRocks

10 years of ending all legal and illegal immigration
Deportation of all illegal Hispanics and Asians, blacks.
A wall across the border. Israel has a good one!
Shoot on the spot if a new round of immigrants try to cross in the future
10 years in prison for any business owner that hires an illegal in the future
A policy that favors white immigration after 10 years
10,000 bucks for each new WHITE baby born

My plan to right America.


----------



## Harry Dresden

Big Black Dog said:


> Immigration reform, what should it be?
> 
> Very strict control of all boarders.  People here illegally should be immediately deported.  Illegal aliens are just like cockroaches.  You get a few in the house and the next thing you know, you're over-run with them.


and this govt has allowed the country to be overrun and NEVER did a dam thing....now after allowing many of those to be here for 20 years....now you want them out?....not going to happen.....you may get that with those who have only been here up to 5 years.....but beyond that?.....i dont think so....the long timers are too entrenched,its to late for them....but they should still be made to become citizens and sign the papers and pay whatever fine or whatever fee  they have to pay to become legal....


----------



## Harry Dresden

Matthew said:


> 10 years of ending all legal and illegal immigration
> Deportation of all illegal Hispanics and Asians, blacks.
> A wall across the border. Israel has a good one!
> Shoot on the spot if a new round of immigrants try to cross in the future
> 10 years in prison for any business owner that hires an illegal in the future
> A policy that favors white immigration after 10 years
> 10,000 bucks for each new WHITE baby born
> 
> My plan to right America.


shoot a family on the spot?.....you are a dipshit Matt.....America is not a brutal dictatorship like you want it to be....your plan to right America kinda sends it over to be a brutal country that i bet most would not want....


----------



## pismoe

Made to become citizens , why , WHY make citizens with the Right to vote out of them Harry ??


----------



## BillyP

Round up all the illegals and make them build a proper fence... With them on the other side of it.


----------



## Harry Dresden

pismoe said:


> Made to become citizens , why , WHY make citizens with the Right to vote out of them Harry ??


because many have been here quite a while.....and the powers that be over the years have allowed it.....so you tell them ....go down to Immigration and start becoming legal citizens and pay whatever fees there are.....if they refuse......... and enforce it.....dont get into that bullshit that all Latinos love the Democrats...a lot of them if able to vote would shun both parties and be independents....they are not as stupid as many people from those parties think they are......


----------



## pismoe

thanks for the reply Harry , if I were inclined or convinced to let them stay that'd be it .   They stay but no reward of any voting no matter their political leaning .


----------



## ScienceRocks

If they don't come. They won't be shot.


----------



## Harry Dresden

Matthew said:


> If they don't come. They won't be shot.


a dumbass like you Matthew would be the first guy shot.....probably by yourself.....in the foot....


----------



## Harry Dresden

Harry Dresden said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> 10 years of ending all legal and illegal immigration
> Deportation of all illegal Hispanics and Asians, blacks.
> A wall across the border. Israel has a good one!
> Shoot on the spot if a new round of immigrants try to cross in the future
> 10 years in prison for any business owner that hires an illegal in the future
> A policy that favors white immigration after 10 years
> 10,000 bucks for each new WHITE baby born
> 
> My plan to right America.
> 
> 
> 
> shoot a family on the spot?.....you are a dipshit Matt.....America is not a brutal dictatorship like you want it to be....your plan to right America kinda sends it over to be a brutal country that i bet most would not want....
Click to expand...

 Matt......you know dam well you would not be able to execute a man and wife with some small kids....so why act like you are some big bad assassin?.......or is someone else supposed to do it for you while you sit safely in your house hundreds of miles away?.....


----------



## Malamute

ShackledNation said:


> I would also reform minimum wage and actually make it lower or get rid of it. Many of these people are willing to work for less, in jobs that Americans would not do anyway. Research has also shown that immigrants that work below minimum wage are not taking higher paying jobs away, but creating new jobs that would not exist if minimum wage were enforced. If all immigrant farmers were paid minimum wage, for example, it is likely that there would be less farm workers and more imports from countries with lower wages.
> 
> Those are the rules I would set. Those here now would apply for similar legal status.
> 
> The goal is that people who want to come here should be allowed to, so long as they are willing to work (which is the reason many come here anyway--jobs) as opposed to just live off of welfare.



As long as we have a welfare state, I think that would be a very foolish policy because all it takes is for the immigrants is to start having babies they can never afford and they're on the welfare handouts. 

Also one reason many Americans won't take those jobs is because the welfare life is an option.


----------



## Malamute

ShackledNation said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good thread, Fred. We NEVER ever should offer amnesty, ever, that is a deal breaker. I know you are asking democrats for a reply, I notice no liberal democrats bother to rely. I remember when our  borders were open. Nobody cared if this or that person wandered over the border. Really. Canadian, Mexican, nobody cared much. Small potatoes. Well, since Regan's amnesty back in 86, things just got WORSE. it's getting to be I hear Spanish more often than English. I live almost a 1000 miles from the border! I am tired of this passive aggressive invasion by Mexico, with this victimhood persona. They are just interloping invaders. I will never accept them as immigrants or Americans. Just interlopers. Good thread.
> 
> 
> 
> What city do you live in where you hear more Spanish than English? Just curious.
Click to expand...



Definitely true where I live -- El Paso is a very large and very fast growing city where Spanish is definitely the dominant language.  80% speak mainly Spanish.


----------



## Oldglory1

ShackledNation said:


> I'm not a dem or a progressive, but I will bite anyway.
> 
> Anyone who wants to come to America and work for a better life should be allowed to come. Basic background checks, ensuring proper immunizations, a clean bill of health (no contagious diseases) should all be required. For those who cannot afford immunizations, I would hope US charities who seek to help immigrants would raise money to pay for them (which no doubt they would if given the chance).
> 
> The goal would be to ensure people coming are not criminals, and are not going to pose any health threat (a test most will pass).
> 
> I do not believe they should instantly become citizens. They should be granted a type of permanent residency status. Additionally, because our welfare system is so screwed up, and there is the possibility of abuse, I would not allow immigrants to use welfare services for a set amount of time.
> 
> I would also reform minimum wage and actually make it lower or get rid of it. Many of these people are willing to work for less, in jobs that Americans would not do anyway. Research has also shown that immigrants that work below minimum wage are not taking higher paying jobs away, but creating new jobs that would not exist if minimum wage were enforced. If all immigrant farmers were paid minimum wage, for example, it is likely that there would be less farm workers and more imports from countries with lower wages.
> 
> Those are the rules I would set. Those here now would apply for similar legal status.
> 
> The goal is that people who want to come here should be allowed to, so long as they are willing to work (which is the reason many come here anyway--jobs) as opposed to just live off of welfare.



I disagree that anyone should be able to come here simply because they want a better life.  We don't have enough jobs and resources to accommodate them all.  We have to keep population growth in mind also.   That's the reason we have annual quotas for legal immigration.


----------



## ShackledNation

Malamute said:


> ShackledNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would also reform minimum wage and actually make it lower or get rid of it. Many of these people are willing to work for less, in jobs that Americans would not do anyway. Research has also shown that immigrants that work below minimum wage are not taking higher paying jobs away, but creating new jobs that would not exist if minimum wage were enforced. If all immigrant farmers were paid minimum wage, for example, it is likely that there would be less farm workers and more imports from countries with lower wages.
> 
> Those are the rules I would set. Those here now would apply for similar legal status.
> 
> The goal is that people who want to come here should be allowed to, so long as they are willing to work (which is the reason many come here anyway--jobs) as opposed to just live off of welfare.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As long as we have a welfare state, I think that would be a very foolish policy because all it takes is for the immigrants is to start having babies they can never afford and they're on the welfare handouts.
> 
> Also one reason many Americans won't take those jobs is because the welfare life is an option.
Click to expand...

I agree welfare reform is needed. The reality is that permanent residents are not allowed to receive the bulk of welfare benefits, however.


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> I disagree that anyone should be able to come here simply because they want a better life.  We don't have enough jobs and resources to accommodate them all.  We have to keep population growth in mind also.   That's the reason we have annual quotas for legal immigration.




ILLEGAL immigration is a problem for many reasons, but "population growth" is certainly NOT one of them.


----------



## BillyP

Unkotare said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree that anyone should be able to come here simply because they want a better life.  We don't have enough jobs and resources to accommodate them all.  We have to keep population growth in mind also.   That's the reason we have annual quotas for legal immigration.
> 
> 
> 
> ILLEGAL immigration is a problem for many reasons, but "population growth" is certainly NOT one of them.
Click to expand...

California is considered 100% of it as lacking enough water. How many more people should they have?


----------



## Unkotare

BillyP said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree that anyone should be able to come here simply because they want a better life.  We don't have enough jobs and resources to accommodate them all.  We have to keep population growth in mind also.   That's the reason we have annual quotas for legal immigration.
> 
> 
> 
> ILLEGAL immigration is a problem for many reasons, but "population growth" is certainly NOT one of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> California is considered 100% of it as lacking enough water. How many more people should they have?
Click to expand...



I don't know if you've heard the news yet, but we have 49 other states as well and the force-field around California isn't working.

 What an idiot


----------



## BillyP

Unkotare said:


> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree that anyone should be able to come here simply because they want a better life.  We don't have enough jobs and resources to accommodate them all.  We have to keep population growth in mind also.   That's the reason we have annual quotas for legal immigration.
> 
> 
> 
> ILLEGAL immigration is a problem for many reasons, but "population growth" is certainly NOT one of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> California is considered 100% of it as lacking enough water. How many more people should they have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if you've heard the news yet, but we have 49 other states as well.
Click to expand...

You're the idiot who doesn't see a problem of overpopulation. Like Chicago, New York, Miami, LA, SF, ... all need and have room for many more people? Why are you always so ignorant?


----------



## Unkotare

We face many problems, but 'overpopulation' isn't one of them.


----------



## BillyP

Unkotare said:


> We face many problems, but 'overpopulation' isn't one of them.


Depends where you live. Like, on planet earth, yes it is. Where you live, maybe not.


----------



## Oldglory1

Unkotare said:


> We face many problems, but 'overpopulation' isn't one of them.



Yes, we are.   Read up on the "carrying capacity" of a nation not raw population numbers.


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> We face many problems, but 'overpopulation' isn't one of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, we are.   .
Click to expand...



Nowhere near, and the future holds challenges in exactly the opposite direction. Give the panic button a rest.


----------



## Unkotare

BillyP said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> We face many problems, but 'overpopulation' isn't one of them.
> 
> 
> 
> Depends where you live. Like, on planet earth, yes it is.
Click to expand...



Patently wrong, idiot.


----------



## protectionist

ShackledNation said:


> I'm not a dem or a progressive, but I will bite anyway.
> 
> Anyone who wants to come to America and work for a better life should be allowed to come. Basic background checks, ensuring proper immunizations, a clean bill of health (no contagious diseases) should all be required. For those who cannot afford immunizations, I would hope US charities who seek to help immigrants would raise money to pay for them (which no doubt they would if given the chance).
> 
> The goal would be to ensure people coming are not criminals, and are not going to pose any health threat (a test most will pass).
> 
> I do not believe they should instantly become citizens. They should be granted a type of permanent residency status. Additionally, because our welfare system is so screwed up, and there is the possibility of abuse, I would not allow immigrants to use welfare services for a set amount of time.
> 
> I would also reform minimum wage and actually make it lower or get rid of it. Many of these people are willing to work for less, in jobs that Americans would not do anyway. Research has also shown that immigrants that work below minimum wage are not taking higher paying jobs away, but creating new jobs that would not exist if minimum wage were enforced. If all immigrant farmers were paid minimum wage, for example, it is likely that there would be less farm workers and more imports from countries with lower wages.
> 
> Those are the rules I would set. Those here now would apply for similar legal status.
> 
> The goal is that people who want to come here should be allowed to, so long as they are willing to work (which is the reason many come here anyway--jobs) as opposed to just live off of welfare.



I lost count with how many things I disagree with here.


----------



## protectionist

Unkotare said:


> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> We face many problems, but 'overpopulation' isn't one of them.
> 
> 
> 
> Depends where you live. Like, on planet earth, yes it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Patently wrong, idiot.
Click to expand...


Patently RIGHT (and YOU KNOW it)


----------



## protectionist

Unkotare said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> We face many problems, but 'overpopulation' isn't one of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, we are.   .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nowhere near, and the future holds challenges in exactly the opposite direction. Give the panic button a rest.
Click to expand...


No panic button. Just  simple realization that we got overpopulated in the 19th century, and it's just gotten worse and worse, ever since.


----------



## protectionist

pismoe said:


> stop all immigration legal and illegal .   Build that wall and deport , no family reunification !!  When immigration is restarted be very selective in who is allowed to immigrate .   I'LL do the selecting if i'm still around .



Sounds like the right strategy.  I would tend to trust your judgement.


----------



## protectionist

MaryL said:


> Good thread, Fred. We NEVER ever should offer amnesty, ever, that is a deal breaker. I know you are asking democrats for a reply, I notice no liberal democrats bother to rely. I remember when our  borders were open. Nobody cared if this or that person wandered over the border. Really. Canadian, Mexican, nobody cared much. Small potatoes. Well, since Regan's amnesty back in 86, things just got WORSE. it's getting to be I hear Spanish more often than English. I live almost a 1000 miles from the border! I am tired of this passive aggressive invasion by Mexico, with this victimhood persona. They are just interloping invaders. I will never accept them as immigrants or Americans. Just interlopers. Good thread.



And this is a good post.  Yes there are some real good posters in this thread.


----------



## protectionist

Jughead said:


> The only way in which to secure the border would be to have a wall extending coast to coast and guard towers with armed guards. However, this would take a significant amount of time and resources to implement. A better solution would be to implement a policy where any employer who is caught hiring an illegal would be required (no exception) to do jail time and pay a hefty fine. As employers start going to jail, you would see a sharp drop in the number of illegals in the workforce. No one wants to go to jail. Illegals would be forced back to their countries of origin as they would have no source of income.
> 
> Amnesty will not work because after you grant amnesty to a group of illegals, you'll have a new group waiting. The cycle will just repeat itself. Not to mention that granting amnesty would be unfair to the immigrants who go through the process, and become citizens the legal way, undergoing background checks, paying the required fees, and waiting their turn in line.



I agree with what yousay about jailing employers and unfairness to people immigrating legally, BUT, illegals would not necessarily be forced out of the country because of unemployment.  They could also live here on welfare, as many due by way of the anchor baby racket, and/or false documentation.  It's critical to put a stop to birthright citizenship, and develop a foolproof method of determining legality (biometrically).


----------



## BillyP

Unkotare said:


> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> We face many problems, but 'overpopulation' isn't one of them.
> 
> 
> 
> Depends where you live. Like, on planet earth, yes it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Patently wrong, idiot.
Click to expand...

I understand that since you have no clue, that you can't tell that you're wrong. It's ok, at least WE know you're wrong,.


----------



## Unkotare

BillyP said:


> It's ok, at least WE know you're wrong,




You and your imaginary friend? I have provided proof, and you have provided nothing but a dearth of logic and reason.


----------



## BillyP

Unkotare said:


> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's ok, at least WE know you're wrong,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You and your imaginary friend? I have provided proof, and you have provided nothing but a dearth of logic and reason.
Click to expand...

Have you provided proof that lots of people aren't starving around the world, that pollution isn't out of control (like all the garbage floating around the world's oceans, never mind places like China where the air is deadly...), and that LA, for example, can handle and needs a lot more people? No. Please try again.


----------



## Unkotare

BillyP said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's ok, at least WE know you're wrong,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You and your imaginary friend? I have provided proof, and you have provided nothing but a dearth of logic and reason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have you provided proof that lots of people aren't starving around the world, that pollution isn't out of control
Click to expand...



That was not the claim in question, stupid.


----------



## Care4all

alanbmx123 said:


> Ok dem's, progressives you don't like fences, deportations, put it on the table. What should the border look like? Wide open? How many should be allowed per year/month.  Should they have to have a sponsor, clean bill of health, immunizations, a skill that fits a specific need, background check, ID, birth certificate?
> Once that is set what should happen to those that come illegally once the new comprehensive law is passed?  Do we grant amnesty every 5 years.
> Or do we set the rules and deport all who violate the law?
> We have laws in place that we chose not to follow and we have chaos now.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Without reading this entire thread, or anyone elses ideas...

I think we need to stop the hiring of illegal immigrants...don't know how completely....but certain it can be figured out with a means for employers to check upon hire, and through penalties/fines that are so LARGESS that employers will not want to skirt the system or take the chance of skirting the system to save a dime or two on illegal hired hands....

The border should NOT and should NEVER be wide open.  It's a homeland security threat...  and it makes immigration unfair....we as a country have always felt that it is a limited MIXTURE of nationalities that makes America great and interesting and successful....Thank God Einstein was let in!    So, over filling our country with just 1 or two nationalities is hurting us and keeping others, from all over the world, that want to come here LEGALLY, from making it here... due to the quotas being kept lower than what America could handle if it were not for all of the illegal immigrants that have come in.

I don't think a fence would work across the southern border, UNLESS it were a fence across the ENTIRE border....  and THAT is cost prohibitive....it costs way more than what we have to spend on something like that, UNLESS.....UNLESS there is some kind of technology that can not be messed with, that can put some sort of invisible  fence up with warning signs, that does not harm the person crossing and does not kill them, for goodness sake, but something that would deter them from crossing, which does NOT COST too much....

And granted, I know nothing about the Southern Border of the USA, other than the Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, and Florida coast line where I lived for a while,  so I could be just dreaming with some of my ideas...

I think President Bush's idea on a guest worker program being escalated or elevated might need to be part of this immigration reform....it was to increase and to simplify, temporary guest worker visas for the migrant workers and seasonal workers...up here it would be chamber maids for the summer only resort hotels which some resort owners who can not fill their positions with Americans get from Jamaica right now, so that none had to come in here illegally, and all of them would easily be able to go back home when the season is over and come back in when the picking season or resort season, begins again....I don't remember exactly, but it was something like a 5 or a 10 year guest worker visa where they did not have to go through all of the hoop dee doo on yearly or whatever basis for renewals and making it harder for them to leave and go home, for the fear of them not being able to come back in legally or come back in at all.

We need a better system of tracking student visa people.....when the visa is up, then need to go home, and spread their invaluable knowledge that they were blessed to be given the chance at receiving.... in their own country....we invite them here, so they can SPREAD what they have learned in to their own communities, back in their homeland...that's the purpose....not so sure if this is being done, many could be just staying here....(and I can't blame them for wanting to stay here, it's a wonderful place to live, in all the years and places I have lived....it's the best so far!  However, this is unfair to those waiting in line to come here legally.)

I honestly do not know what to do with all of the illegals that are living here already....there are so many of them....I think the idea of focusing on deporting the ones with no ties, the ones with criminal records, the ones in gangs etc etc etc,  is the first step....  I do think that those that have had children born in the USA, should be the very last....  I just do....I don't want to separate mother, father and child or mother and child, and the child as a USA citizen can not be deported and it just could turn ugly all around....

I've said enough for now...

(and some of my ideas on second thought are scaring me, seeing how all of this could lead to all of us being tattooed  or CHIPPED, with a number on/in our right hand or forehead  so we can prove that we are American citizens and not illegals, (the Mark of the Beast) and everyone just going along with it due to their amplified fear of illegals)  I know I'll be laughed at for that thought, but it sure seems like this is where we could be going...and I am jumping off this band wagon if that is the case!!!


----------



## BillyP

Unkotare said:


> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's ok, at least WE know you're wrong,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You and your imaginary friend? I have provided proof, and you have provided nothing but a dearth of logic and reason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have you provided proof that lots of people aren't starving around the world, that pollution isn't out of control
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was not the claim in question.
Click to expand...

So you can't? That's what we thought.


----------



## Unkotare

Holy shit you're stupid. Wow.


----------



## Oldglory1

Care4all said:


> alanbmx123 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok dem's, progressives you don't like fences, deportations, put it on the table. What should the border look like? Wide open? How many should be allowed per year/month.  Should they have to have a sponsor, clean bill of health, immunizations, a skill that fits a specific need, background check, ID, birth certificate?
> Once that is set what should happen to those that come illegally once the new comprehensive law is passed?  Do we grant amnesty every 5 years.
> Or do we set the rules and deport all who violate the law?
> We have laws in place that we chose not to follow and we have chaos now.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Without reading this entire thread, or anyone elses ideas...
> 
> I think we need to stop the hiring of illegal immigrants...don't know how completely....but certain it can be figured out with a means for employers to check upon hire, and through penalties/fines that are so LARGESS that employers will not want to skirt the system or take the chance of skirting the system to save a dime or two on illegal hired hands....
> 
> The border should NOT and should NEVER be wide open.  It's a homeland security threat...  and it makes immigration unfair....we as a country have always felt that it is a limited MIXTURE of nationalities that makes America great and interesting and successful....Thank God Einstein was let in!    So, over filling our country with just 1 or two nationalities is hurting us and keeping others, from all over the world, that want to come here LEGALLY, from making it here... due to the quotas being kept lower than what America could handle if it were not for all of the illegal immigrants that have come in.
> 
> I don't think a fence would work across the southern border, UNLESS it were a fence across the ENTIRE border....  and THAT is cost prohibitive....it costs way more than what we have to spend on something like that, UNLESS.....UNLESS there is some kind of technology that can not be messed with, that can put some sort of invisible  fence up with warning signs, that does not harm the person crossing and does not kill them, for goodness sake, but something that would deter them from crossing, which does NOT COST too much....
> 
> And granted, I know nothing about the Southern Border of the USA, other than the Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, and Florida coast line where I lived for a while,  so I could be just dreaming with some of my ideas...
> 
> I think President Bush's idea on a guest worker program being escalated or elevated might need to be part of this immigration reform....it was to increase and to simplify, temporary guest worker visas for the migrant workers and seasonal workers...up here it would be chamber maids for the summer only resort hotels which some resort owners who can not fill their positions with Americans get from Jamaica right now, so that none had to come in here illegally, and all of them would easily be able to go back home when the season is over and come back in when the picking season or resort season, begins again....I don't remember exactly, but it was something like a 5 or a 10 year guest worker visa where they did not have to go through all of the hoop dee doo on yearly or whatever basis for renewals and making it harder for them to leave and go home, for the fear of them not being able to come back in legally or come back in at all.
> 
> We need a better system of tracking student visa people.....when the visa is up, then need to go home, and spread their invaluable knowledge that they were blessed to be given the chance at receiving.... in their own country....we invite them here, so they can SPREAD what they have learned in to their own communities, back in their homeland...that's the purpose....not so sure if this is being done, many could be just staying here....(and I can't blame them for wanting to stay here, it's a wonderful place to live, in all the years and places I have lived....it's the best so far!  However, this is unfair to those waiting in line to come here legally.)
> 
> I honestly do not know what to do with all of the illegals that are living here already....there are so many of them....I think the idea of focusing on deporting the ones with no ties, the ones with criminal records, the ones in gangs etc etc etc,  is the first step....  I do think that those that have had children born in the USA, should be the very last....  I just do....I don't want to separate mother, father and child or mother and child, and the child as a USA citizen can not be deported and it just could turn ugly all around....
> 
> I've said enough for now...
> 
> (and some of my ideas on second thought are scaring me, seeing how all of this could lead to all of us being tattooed  or CHIPPED, with a number on/in our right hand or forehead  so we can prove that we are American citizens and not illegals, (the Mark of the Beast) and everyone just going along with it due to their amplified fear of illegals)  I know I'll be laughed at for that thought, but it sure seems like this is where we could be going...and I am jumping off this band wagon if that is the case!!!
Click to expand...


1. Erect the double layered wall only along the most porous areas of the border.     This will free up the Border Patrol to patrol the rest.  A good physical barrier would assist them immensely to do their jobs.   It would be cost effective when you consider the costs of having illegal aliens in our country by the millions.

2. Implement e-verify across the board, deny any benefits to an illegal alien headed household.  Remove birthright citizenship for their kids.  This will make most of them self-deport with no incentives to remain here or to continue to come here.  There is no need to implant chips in anyone.   A good tamper proof national ID is not a bad idea though.  All of the above would cut illegal immigration down to a trickle if only congress had the will to do them. Far too many in congress with an invested interest in promoting illegal immigration though.  I fear before they wake up it will be too late.


----------



## Katzndogz

Allowing landowners along the border the right to defend their property would go a long way to securing the border.    Allow the border patrol to use deadly force would help.


----------



## Malamute

Unkotare said:


> We face many problems, but 'overpopulation' isn't one of them.



With over 2 billion impoverished people who would all enjoy the welfare life in the USA and they have sky high birth rates, I think overpopulation is a concern.

Americans aren't over-populating, nor is the middle class.  And we may have some wide open spaces but all the millions illegals do is crowd already packed urban areas.


----------



## Malamute

What should be done to reform immigration is reform the family sponsorship portion of legal immigration because far too many of those sponsored by relatives end up on food stamps and Medicaid. 

It also keeps better qualified immigrants out because not much is required of those being sponsored by their relatives or of the sponsor.  Instead the sponsor shouldn't have to be a relative, but could be anyone who is willing to provide the immigrant with 100% of the financial support required, all the housing, medical costs, food, education for the entire stay of the immigrant. 

There should never be any taxpayer handouts for immigrants, if they can't make it here, or the sponsor doesn't want to pay for their care, they should return home.


----------



## Unkotare

Malamute said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> We face many problems, but 'overpopulation' isn't one of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With over 2 billion impoverished people who would all enjoy the welfare life in the USA and they have sky high birth rates, I think overpopulation is a concern.
Click to expand...



You are mistaken. Poverty is a concern, hunger is a concern, war and political strife are concerns, but there is no "overpopulation."


----------



## BillyP

Unkotare said:


> Malamute said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> We face many problems, but 'overpopulation' isn't one of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With over 2 billion impoverished people who would all enjoy the welfare life in the USA and they have sky high birth rates, I think overpopulation is a concern.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are mistaken. Poverty is a concern, hunger is a concern, war and political strife are concerns, but there is no "overpopulation."
Click to expand...

We can't feed the whole world as it is. India, China, and others are for sure over-populated. LA even has too many people.


----------



## Unkotare

BillyP said:


> We can't feed the whole world as it is.




Yes we can, as I have proven to you many times. You're not just stupid, you are deliberately dishonest.


----------



## BillyP

Unkotare said:


> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> We can't feed the whole world as it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes we can, as I have proven to you many times.
Click to expand...

The only thing you've proven is that you're ignorant of all the starving people in the world. Stop being so totally clueless.


----------



## Unkotare

You need help. Go get your Hi-Set, go see a shrink, go read all the many links I provided, then go shut fuck up. 


The world produces more than enough food to feed every man, woman, and child on the planet. That is a FACT.


----------



## BillyP

Unkotare said:


> You need help. Go get your Hi-Set, go see a shrink, go read all the many links I provided, then go shut fuck up.
> 
> 
> The world produces more than enough food to feed every man, woman, and child on the planet. That is a FACT.


Not what I was talking about. I said we can't feed the whole world as it is, why would we want more people on this planet. Now go back to your sandbox.


----------



## pismoe

thing with me is that I don't much care about feeding or housing of a growing world population .    My only concern is more people in the boundaries of the USA .     My only concern is more people and their cultures in the USA brings new laws , regulations and restrictions on Americans to accommodate the newcomers .


----------



## Unkotare

BillyP said:


> I said we can't feed the whole world as it is, why would we want more people on this planet. ...



We most certainly "can" (meaning we have the capacity, for those of you like BillyPussy who are 'challenged' in reading comprehension) feed the whole world. The number of people alive in the world is not the cause of poverty and hunger.


----------



## pismoe

we have the capacity to feed with proper distribution .   Same with housing , government just distributes food where it is needed .   Same with housing , gov just builds housing and gives people housing vouchers .   My only problem with growing imported population in the USA is the growing population which makes new groups that special interest politicians will  pander to .   ELLISON , the first muslim politician in Minnesota  , who woulda thunk it 20 years ago .   Plus , small cities , towns and locations are filling up with people .


----------



## Againsheila

alanbmx123 said:


> Ok dem's, progressives you don't like fences, deportations, put it on the table. What should the border look like? Wide open? How many should be allowed per year/month.  Should they have to have a sponsor, clean bill of health, immunizations, a skill that fits a specific need, background check, ID, birth certificate?
> Once that is set what should happen to those that come illegally once the new comprehensive law is passed?  Do we grant amnesty every 5 years.
> Or do we set the rules and deport all who violate the law?
> We have laws in place that we chose not to follow and we have chaos now.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




How about a reciprocal law?  Whatever the laws are for immigration in your country, that's how we treat you.  If Americans aren't welcome in your country, you aren't welcome here.  If we can't go there and work, you can't come here and work.  If we can't go there and live, you can't come here and live.  If we can't get welfare in your country, you can't get it in ours. Seems fair to me.


----------



## pismoe

hows it going Unkatore ??


----------



## Unkotare

Againsheila said:


> alanbmx123 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok dem's, progressives you don't like fences, deportations, put it on the table. What should the border look like? Wide open? How many should be allowed per year/month.  Should they have to have a sponsor, clean bill of health, immunizations, a skill that fits a specific need, background check, ID, birth certificate?
> Once that is set what should happen to those that come illegally once the new comprehensive law is passed?  Do we grant amnesty every 5 years.
> Or do we set the rules and deport all who violate the law?
> We have laws in place that we chose not to follow and we have chaos now.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about a reciprocal law?  Whatever the laws are for immigration in your country, that's how we treat you.  If Americans aren't welcome in your country, you aren't welcome here.  If we can't go there and work, you can't come here and work.  If we can't go there and live, you can't come here and live.  If we can't get welfare in your country, you can't get it in ours. Seems fair to me.
Click to expand...



I don't want American laws based on the laws of other countries. We can make our own laws, we just need to enforce them. If we had a capable chief law enforcement officer in the Executive we might be able to do that.


----------



## pismoe

I often hear that idea  ' sheilia ' , I disagree , USA should be free and independent with no negotiation with foreigners about USA policies and laws .


----------



## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> hows it going Unkatore ??




Fine thank you, and you?


----------



## BillyP

Unkotare said:


> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said we can't feed the whole world as it is, why would we want more people on this planet. ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We most certainly "can" (meaning we have the capacity, for those of you like BillyPussy who are 'challenged' in reading comprehension) feed the whole world. The number of people alive in the world is not the cause of poverty and hunger.
Click to expand...

You're a simpleton. We can't feed the whole world as it is. Sure, some parts of the world could handle more people, but the earth as a whole can't. Too many people are creating too much pollution, and too many people are starving. Ok, now go stick your head back in the sand.


----------



## Againsheila

pismoe said:


> I often hear that ' sheilia ' , I disagree , USA should be free and independent with no negotiation with foreigners about USA policies and laws .



So instead we let them roam free and take over our country.  we take in more legal immigrants than all other nations combined, add the illegals into that mess and we are being overrun.  They don't want to become Americans, they want to turn our country into theirs.  And for the record, there are no jobs that Americans won't do, only jobs that were taken away from Americans.  Also, they have gone into the higher paying jobs and ruined those as well.  I have a friend in construction, he makes the same now as he did nearly 40 years ago due to the immigrants, both legal and illegal that have taken over.  If our immigration was kept at a reasonable level, or lower paid workers would be making a a living wage without a law requiring it.  Americans are having children at less than replacement value, that means pay should be going up for the lower paid jobs, exponentially, but instead, we've let in so many immigrants, both legal and illegal that the middle class wages have stagnated and the poor wages have actually gone down in spending power.  This is not a good system.  Of course the wealthy are happy, they're making more money than ever and they love that cheap labor.  Heck, if they don't want to pay them, they can just call immigration before they hand out the paychecks.


----------



## pismoe

good to hear Unkatore !!


----------



## Unkotare

BillyP said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said we can't feed the whole world as it is, why would we want more people on this planet. ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We most certainly "can" (meaning we have the capacity, for those of you like BillyPussy who are 'challenged' in reading comprehension) feed the whole world. The number of people alive in the world is not the cause of poverty and hunger.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're a simpleton. We can't feed the whole world as it is.
Click to expand...



Do you think that just repeating that will make it true, Rain Man?


----------



## BillyP

Unkotare said:


> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said we can't feed the whole world as it is, why would we want more people on this planet. ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We most certainly "can" (meaning we have the capacity, for those of you like BillyPussy who are 'challenged' in reading comprehension) feed the whole world. The number of people alive in the world is not the cause of poverty and hunger.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're a simpleton. We can't feed the whole world as it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you think that just repeating that will make it true?
Click to expand...

Too many people are creating too much pollution, and too many people are starving. Large parts of the world like China and India definitely can't handle more people. Same with LA... Plus, if we could feed the whole world, nobody would be starving. But in your world, the whole world is fed, right?


----------



## pismoe

that's what deportation is a way to go Sheilia , plus build a wall .   Saudis are doing a wall as we type according to a link that I posted on this board yesterday .  Israelis have a separation wall that works .  Another idea that I disagree with is the idea that the USA stop illegal immigration but increase legal immigration .   All these ideas are losers in my opinion .   Only way i'll be happy is to stop ALL immigration except for limited and very selective immigration based on what Americans want .   Sure , USA wants that foreign scientist and he wants to come , then its ok for that scientist and immediate family but that's it  .  And , by the way , I agree with your last post !!


----------



## ShackledNation

Malamute said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> We face many problems, but 'overpopulation' isn't one of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With over 2 billion impoverished people who would all enjoy the welfare life in the USA and they have sky high birth rates, I think overpopulation is a concern.
> 
> Americans aren't over-populating, nor is the middle class.  And we may have some wide open spaces but all the millions illegals do is crowd already packed urban areas.
Click to expand...

Except there are not 2 billion impoverished people who want to move to the United States. In fact, not even 2 billion people period want to move here.

150 Million Adults Worldwide Would Migrate to the U.S.

In terms of population density, the U.S. is *number 179 of 241 countries. 
*
Overpopulation is not a concern. Anyone who knows the facts but still says overpopulation in the U.S. is a concern is really just saying they don't want more non-whites here.


----------



## ShackledNation

pismoe said:


> we have the capacity to feed with proper distribution .   Same with housing , government just distributes food where it is needed .   Same with housing , gov just builds housing and gives people housing vouchers .   My only problem with growing imported population in the USA is the growing population which makes new groups that special interest politicians will  pander to .   ELLISON , the first muslim politician in Minnesota  , who woulda thunk it 20 years ago .   Plus , small cities , towns and locations are filling up with people .


I agree the U.S. has the capacity to meet the needs of more people and overpopulation is not a serious threat. But that has nothing to do with government being able to distribute things. As we know from history (Soviet Union) government utterly fails at meeting needs. It is the free market that has the capacity to do all of the things you mention.


----------



## Unkotare

Only fools who do not understand what America is call for stopping LEGAL immigration. Not going to happen regardless.


----------



## ScienceRocks

We need to replace the 1965 anti-white law.


----------



## pismoe

yeah ' S.nation ' , I agree but the way I describe is how things will be run in the future,  in my opinion .   Gov will distribute THEIR food and supply THEIR housing which they will own or at least have authority over .     To what degree , well I don't know but I don't foresee a free market


----------



## ShackledNation

pismoe said:


> yeah ' S.nation ' , I agree but the way I describe is how things will be run in the future,  in my opinion .   Gov will distribute THEIR food and supply THEIR housing which they will own or at least have authority over .     To what degree , well I don't know but I don't foresee a free market


If that is how things are run in the future, everyone will be starving and homeless (except the government bureaucrats and their friends of course). If there is no free market, the result will be an increase in poverty and economic stagnation.


----------



## pismoe

not saying its a good idea , just saying that that's what I envision .   I also see most of the population living in cities and most will be poor , imo .   And my concern with population is simply that I don't want more population in the USA as I watch smaller American cities grow in population and I see the spread of cities into open areas  .   I don't see that as progress .  I don't concern myself with world population as I'm only concerned with the population numbers in the USA .


----------



## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> not saying its a good idea , just saying that that's what I envision .   I also see most of the population living in cities and most will be poor , imo .   And my concern with population is simply that I don't want more population in the USA as I watch smaller American cities grow in population and I see the spread of cities into open areas  .   I don't see that as progress .  I don't concern myself with world population as I'm only concerned with the population numbers in the USA .




If you are concerned with the US, you should be concerned with the inevitably shrinking population that lies in our future and all the challenges that holds.


----------



## BillyP

ShackledNation said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> we have the capacity to feed with proper distribution .   Same with housing , government just distributes food where it is needed .   Same with housing , gov just builds housing and gives people housing vouchers .   My only problem with growing imported population in the USA is the growing population which makes new groups that special interest politicians will  pander to .   ELLISON , the first muslim politician in Minnesota  , who woulda thunk it 20 years ago .   Plus , small cities , towns and locations are filling up with people .
> 
> 
> 
> I agree the U.S. has the capacity to meet the needs of more people and overpopulation is not a serious threat. But that has nothing to do with government being able to distribute things. As we know from history (Soviet Union) government utterly fails at meeting needs. It is the free market that has the capacity to do all of the things you mention.
Click to expand...

California is now completely a drought area, meaning not enough water to go around as it is. A couple of spots in the US could probably handle a few more people, but most places can't. The pollution generated by the amount of people in the US today is ENORMOUS!! And a serious number of areas are running out of water. 
Ok, now everyone, heads back in the sand!


----------



## BillyP

Unkotare said:


> Only fools who do not understand what America is call for stopping LEGAL immigration. Not going to happen regardless.


It all depends on how many people you're letting in. And of course who. We have enough terrorists... oops... I mean muslims already. Various bean eaters as well. Just need a balance.


----------



## pismoe

just to be clear , I don't care about the rest of the worlds population , pollution , drought or anything about the WORLD . I only care about USA population and would like to see it reduced to a level of about 1970 simply because it was a more pleasant time with less people in the USA  .   Just saying !!


----------



## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> I only care about USA population and would like to see it reduced to a level of about 1970




No, you don't want that.


----------



## pismoe

Mornin Unkatore , so you are giving out more unwanted advice ehh ??    I just wanted to be clear on my reason for opposing more population growth within USA borders .


----------



## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> Mornin Unkatore , so you are giving out more unwanted advice ehh ??    I just wanted to be clear on my reason for opposing more population growth within USA borders .




You need it.


----------



## pismoe

more OPINIONS ehh Unkatore ??


----------



## Unkotare

More reality.


----------



## pismoe

you never explain your BENT reality Unkatore , you just give unwanted advice and opinions .   USA would be nicer with a lighter population density like I had when I was growing up , in my opinion !!   [ more pleasant , less crowded ]


----------



## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> you never explain your BENT reality Unkatore , you just give unwanted advice and opinions .   USA would be nicer with a lighter population density like I had when I was growing up , in my opinion !!   [ more pleasant , less crowded ]




I have explained to you before that the problems we face in the future will be those of an aging, declining population, not of any imaginary overpopulation. You don't want that. What you think you remember about growing up has absolutely nothing to do with reality. You're being irrational.


----------



## pismoe

that's not my concern , just some '  possible problem '  [projection by some think tank] that will need to be dealt with .    Sounds like you will trade away a great country away for a check and some person to wipe yer butt while you rot on yer death bed Unkatore .


----------



## BillyP

pismoe said:


> that's not my concern , just some '  possible problem '  [projection by some think tank] that will need to be dealt with .    Sounds like you will trade away a great country away for a check and some person to wipe yer butt while you rot on yer death bed Unkatore .


He'll be happy to have an illegal wetback changing his Depends and wiping the poo from his starfish.


----------



## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> that's not my concern , just some '  possible problem '  [projection by some think tank] that will need to be dealt with .     .




It is an inevitable problem, and it is your concern if you love your country. Or don't you?


If you want to stick with this infantile self-centeredness, nothing that is done here and now will bring back your imagined memories of childhood. Grow up and deal with reality.


----------



## pismoe

self centeredness , yer the guy that wants to be provided with a social security check and a butt wiper Unkatore .


----------



## ShackledNation

BillyP said:


> ShackledNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> we have the capacity to feed with proper distribution .   Same with housing , government just distributes food where it is needed .   Same with housing , gov just builds housing and gives people housing vouchers .   My only problem with growing imported population in the USA is the growing population which makes new groups that special interest politicians will  pander to .   ELLISON , the first muslim politician in Minnesota  , who woulda thunk it 20 years ago .   Plus , small cities , towns and locations are filling up with people .
> 
> 
> 
> I agree the U.S. has the capacity to meet the needs of more people and overpopulation is not a serious threat. But that has nothing to do with government being able to distribute things. As we know from history (Soviet Union) government utterly fails at meeting needs. It is the free market that has the capacity to do all of the things you mention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> California is now completely a drought area, meaning not enough water to go around as it is. A couple of spots in the US could probably handle a few more people, but most places can't. The pollution generated by the amount of people in the US today is ENORMOUS!! And a serious number of areas are running out of water.
> Ok, now everyone, heads back in the sand!
Click to expand...

The U.S. is one of the _least_ densely populated countries on this planet. It is also the wealthiest. Even California is not as dense as you believe. There are 246.1 people per square mile living in CA. If CA were a country, it would be only the 111th most densely populated in the world. And for the record, the CA drought was caused by a lack of rain...that's what a drought is. 

The idea that the United States is at risk of facing some overpopulation crisis and shortage of resources is nothing more than fear-mongering nonsense.


----------



## ShackledNation

pismoe said:


> just to be clear , I don't care about the rest of the worlds population , pollution , drought or anything about the WORLD . I only care about USA population and would like to see it reduced to a level of about 1970 simply because it was a more pleasant time with less people in the USA  .   Just saying !!


Or you could just move to one of the many places in the U.S. that is less densely populated. Nobody is forcing you to live in a city. Just saying !!


----------



## pismoe

no , not over population in the sense that the USA will run out of room for people .   My concern is over population that makes things more crowded for existing Americans in the USA .   I don't like spawl , nothing to do with pollution or inability to feed or house more people .   I just don't like sprawl , growth and more people in the USA   ' S.Nation ' .   Not really my concern but I'm thinking of the next generation of existing American kids .   Not only the above but with different cultures being imported the USA will lose core western values .    More people all by themselves means more laws and restrictions , add different cultures to the mix and that's even more problems .


----------



## pismoe

and I live there , I know what i'm talking about , see my above post  ' S.Nation' !!   I don't want to see China type population in the USA ever .    I think that China is a good comparison as far as land mass as USA and China is land mass comparable I think  .   USA has more arable land for food production and better farming methods than China I think so we could easily support more people .   I just don't want to see it , I see no benefit for Americans .    I only see benefits  for the immigrants and my friend Unkatore .


----------



## ShackledNation

pismoe said:


> no , not over population in the sense that the USA will run out of room for people .   My concern is over population that makes things more crowded for existing Americans in the USA .   I don't like spawl , nothing to do with pollution or inability to feed or house more people .   I just don't like sprawl , growth and more people in the USA   ' S.Nation ' .   Not really my concern but I'm thinking of the next generation of existing American kids .   Not only the above but with different cultures being imported the USA will lose core western values .    More people all by themselves means more laws and restrictions , add different cultures to the mix and that's even more problems .


As someone in an interracial relationship, I can firmly say the above is total nonsense. The U.S. has been a melting pot of different cultures since the founding. If you don't like that, tough. No harm is caused to anyone except those who are xenophobic. Like I said, you should have no fear of sprawl. Just move to one of the many, many places in the U.S. with lower population density. Again, _the U.S. is one of the least densely populated places on the planet._


----------



## ShackledNation

pismoe said:


> I live there , I know what i'm talking about , see my above post 's.nation' !!   I don't want to see China type population in the USA ever .    I think that China is a good comparison as far as land mass as USA and China is land mass comparable I think  .   USA has more arable land for food production and better farming methods than China I think so we could easily support more people .   I just don't want to see it , I see no benefit for Americans .    I only see benefits  for the immigrants .


You live where? I have no way of knowing, since you don't use the quote function. It really is quite simply. Click "reply" at the bottom of the post, and then you will be able to quote who you are replying to so everyone can follow the discussion. Or do you not want me to know when you reply to me?


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## pismoe

I live in a very sparsely populated state and area ' S.Nation ' .


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## ShackledNation

pismoe said:


> I live in a very sparsely populated state and area ' S.Nation ' .


Please use the quote function. And if you live in a sparsely populated state, you have no reason to complain about overpopulation. What state?


----------



## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> self centeredness , yer the guy that wants to be provided with a social security check and a butt wiper Unkatore .




Never so much as hinted at such a thing. You are revealing yourself through such desperation.


----------



## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> Not really my concern but I'm thinking of the next generation of existing American kids .   Not only the above but with different cultures being imported the USA will lose core western values .    More people all by themselves means more laws and restrictions , add different cultures to the mix and that's even more problems .



If you were really concerned about the next generation you would pay attention to what I've told you over and over about demographics. As for cultures, we've always had many and we have always been the better for it. If you have no faith in this nation...


----------



## pismoe

and , I'll just keep politely advocating my position and point of view for all to see 'S.Nation'.    Others like you can build whatever you like in America / USA but I'll generally speak against it . Polite Freedom of Speech , its a wonderful western / American freedom that many diverse cultures would like to remove .


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## pismoe

hey Unkatore !!


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## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> I don't want to see China type population in the USA ever .    .




And you won't. You won't even see it in China after the next 30 years or so. Calm down.


----------



## pismoe

I like the whole USA to be sparsly populated 'S.Nation' . I'm an American , the whole USA is my playground and I'd like to see that sparsely populated America be the playground of future Americans .   Just my point of view S.Nation' !!


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## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> I like the whole USA to be sparsly populated 'S.Nation' . I'm an American , the whole USA is my playground and I'd like to see that sparsely populated America be the playground of future Americans .   Just my point of view S.Nation' !!




You're an irrational simpleton.


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## pismoe

well then , others may think like you Unkatore and I won't be able to influence them to my point of view .


----------



## ShackledNation

pismoe said:


> and , I'll just keep politely advocating my position and point of view for all to see 'S.Nation'.    Others like you can build whatever you like in America / USA but I'll generally speak against it . Polite Freedom of Speech , its a wonderful western / American freedom that many diverse cultures would like to remove .


Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from being called out on how blatantly irrational that speech is. You appeal to it is a meaningless platitude.

Your position is nonsense. Overpopulation in the United States is not a problem. Period. You are complaining about something nonexistent. You are free to be wrong, but that doesn't make you right.


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## pismoe

and now Unakatore is calling names , thanks Unkatore !!


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## ShackledNation

pismoe said:


> I like the whole USA to be sparsly populated 'S.Nation' . I'm an American , the whole USA is my playground and I'd like to see that sparsely populated America be the playground of future Americans .   Just my point of view S.Nation' !!


So you want to get rid of all cities? After all, no city can ever be sparsely populated in retain it's definition of a city. Okay then. I suggest moving in with the Amish. But there will always be cities in the United States. Your opinion is totally pointless. You might as well be complaining that that the ocean is salty.


----------



## pismoe

everyone has an opinion 'S.Nation' and I'm happy to see yers and you have seen my opinion , everything is cool !!   Its called Freedom of Speech !!


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## pismoe

yer comments are getting silly  ' S.Nation ' .    I never said , get rid of cities .


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## ShackledNation

Pismoe, cities by definition have dense (aka not sparse) populations. You said you wanted the entire U.S. to be sparsely populated--that means if you actually believe that claim, you have to be against cities. Since it seems you are not against cities, then you are an irrational hypocrite you doesn't really have an opinion relevant to population size.

Your whole tirade against overpopulation is just thinly-veiled xenophobia.


----------



## pismoe

AHH , now I see , Libertarian , maybe a big L libertarian .   Some big L libertarians go so far as to approve of open borders with free flow of people and goods [I think] .


----------



## pismoe

Funny , my wife and I went to a meeting at a coffee shop with a group of Libertarians about 15 years ago .   Nice people but mostly all they talked about was legalization of marijuana .


----------



## pismoe

just for grins , Libertarian stance on immigration .  --- Immigration Libertarian Party  ---    I have no comment , just putting it up to show where some Libertarians stand on immigration into the USA .


----------



## pismoe

here you go guys , gals --- More Americans would decrease legal immigration Poll - CBS News ---


----------



## Windship

alanbmx123 said:


> Ok dem's, progressives you don't like fences, deportations, put it on the table. What should the border look like? Wide open? How many should be allowed per year/month.  Should they have to have a sponsor, clean bill of health, immunizations, a skill that fits a specific need, background check, ID, birth certificate?
> Once that is set what should happen to those that come illegally once the new comprehensive law is passed?  Do we grant amnesty every 5 years.
> Or do we set the rules and deport all who violate the law?
> We have laws in place that we chose not to follow and we have chaos now.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




It doesn't matter what skills they have!!!
We have all  the skills we need from the Americans that are already here! We do not need any more people.


----------



## pismoe

no reason for anymore importeds , what , we have a population of 300 and some million .    If the USA wants to import the smartest guy in the world , import him and his wife and kids , that's it .


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## Unkotare

Report 25 000 high-skill jobs unfilled prompts request for more ed funding Local News The Seattle Times


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## BillyP

Unkotare said:


> Report 25 000 high-skill jobs unfilled prompts request for more ed funding Local News The Seattle Times


And the illegal bean eaters are going to fill these jobs?


----------



## alanbmx123

come to California, every profession is now dominated by Spanish speaking folks, except in and out burger, they must be racist or something


----------



## elektra

The government should not be allowed to control what they repeatedly fail at.

Any private company given the chance would uphold the law.


----------



## Rozman

Let's say Obama does Amnesty.Then what Immigration reform?
Then we don't secure the borders,we don't enforce the new and improved Obama Immigration laws.
Then 10 years,15 years from now we do it again.....

WTF?


----------



## pismoe

Americans as a distinct group will be gone , over run in my opinion .   You already see Americans being over run in [example] s. calfornia  imo .


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## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> Americans as a distinct group will be gone , over run in my opinion .




Ridiculous.


----------



## Oldglory1

pismoe said:


> Americans as a distinct group will be gone , over run in my opinion .   You already see Americans being over run in [example] s. calfornia  imo .



To be fair there are many Hispanics (the group here in the largest numbers illegally) who are also citizens of this country.    We won't be overrun with illegal aliens but our demographics will certainly change.  I object to this unnatural and unlawful change and so do most sane and loyal Americans.


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## pismoe

and those Hispanics that consider themselves to be American are not a problem .   Demographics , race , color are also not a concern of mine .


----------



## Oldglory1

pismoe said:


> and those Hispanics that consider themselves to be American are not a problem .   Demographics , race , color are also not a concern of mine .



They aren't a problem if they don't put their ethnic group here illegally above our immigration laws.   Far too many do though.  Assimilation to the English language seems to be an adversion to many of them also.

Demographic change due to illegal immigration should be a concern to all of us.


----------



## pismoe

I don't care about the demographics , Americans can be all colors .    My concern is people in the USA that either have dual allegiances or look at the USA only as a place to get a job and make money .


----------



## Oldglory1

pismoe said:


> I don't care about the demographics , Americans can be all colors .    My concern is people in the USA that either have dual allegiances or look at the USA only as a place to get a job and make money .



Again, you should care if the demographics are changing via ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.  It is neither natural nor lawful!


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Americans as a distinct group will be gone , over run in my opinion .   You already see Americans being over run in [example] s. calfornia  imo .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair there are many Hispanics (the group here in the largest numbers illegally) who are also citizens of this country.    We won't be overrun with illegal aliens but our demographics will certainly change.  I object to this unnatural and unlawful change and so do most sane and loyal Americans.
Click to expand...



"Unnatural"?


Seek help, headcase.


----------



## Oldglory1

Unkotare said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Americans as a distinct group will be gone , over run in my opinion .   You already see Americans being over run in [example] s. calfornia  imo .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair there are many Hispanics (the group here in the largest numbers illegally) who are also citizens of this country.    We won't be overrun with illegal aliens but our demographics will certainly change.  I object to this unnatural and unlawful change and so do most sane and loyal Americans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Unnatural"?
> 
> 
> Seek help, headcase.
Click to expand...


Please don't bother to reply to me if you can't be civil.   There is nothing natural about illegal immigration nor is it lawful.   It's a huge negative impact on our own citizens also.  Get back with me when Mexico embraces an illegal invasion from China and therefore turns into an Asian country culturally rather than a Hispanic one in identity.   Hypocrisy, anyone?


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Americans as a distinct group will be gone , over run in my opinion .   You already see Americans being over run in [example] s. calfornia  imo .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair there are many Hispanics (the group here in the largest numbers illegally) who are also citizens of this country.    We won't be overrun with illegal aliens but our demographics will certainly change.  I object to this unnatural and unlawful change and so do most sane and loyal Americans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Unnatural"?
> 
> 
> Seek help, headcase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please don't bother to reply to me if you can't be civil.   There is nothing natural about illegal immigration nor is it lawful.   It's a huge negative impact on our own citizens also.  Get back with me when Mexico embraces an illegal invasion from China and therefore turns into an Asian country culturally rather than a Hispanic one in identity.   Hypocrisy, anyone?
Click to expand...



Illegal immigration over political boundaries is not a process of nature one way or the other. Illegal immigration is a problem, but your attempt to dramatize it further through the misuse of language is unnecessary and indulgent.


----------



## Oldglory1

Unkotare said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Americans as a distinct group will be gone , over run in my opinion .   You already see Americans being over run in [example] s. calfornia  imo .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair there are many Hispanics (the group here in the largest numbers illegally) who are also citizens of this country.    We won't be overrun with illegal aliens but our demographics will certainly change.  I object to this unnatural and unlawful change and so do most sane and loyal Americans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Unnatural"?
> 
> 
> Seek help, headcase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please don't bother to reply to me if you can't be civil.   There is nothing natural about illegal immigration nor is it lawful.   It's a huge negative impact on our own citizens also.  Get back with me when Mexico embraces an illegal invasion from China and therefore turns into an Asian country culturally rather than a Hispanic one in identity.   Hypocrisy, anyone?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal immigration over political boundaries is not a process of nature one way or the other. Illegal immigration is a problem, but your attempt to dramatize it further through the misuse of language is unnecessary and indulgent.
Click to expand...


No dramatization or misuse of language on my part.    Why don't you research the huge negative impact that illegal aliens have on our own citizens?  Why so little respect for our immigration laws that you appear to defend illegal aliens but try to pretend you don't?


----------



## ShackledNation

Oldglory1 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Americans as a distinct group will be gone , over run in my opinion .   You already see Americans being over run in [example] s. calfornia  imo .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair there are many Hispanics (the group here in the largest numbers illegally) who are also citizens of this country.    We won't be overrun with illegal aliens but our demographics will certainly change.  I object to this unnatural and unlawful change and so do most sane and loyal Americans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Unnatural"?
> 
> 
> Seek help, headcase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please don't bother to reply to me if you can't be civil.   There is nothing natural about illegal immigration nor is it lawful.   It's a huge negative impact on our own citizens also.  Get back with me when Mexico embraces an illegal invasion from China and therefore turns into an Asian country culturally rather than a Hispanic one in identity.   Hypocrisy, anyone?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal immigration over political boundaries is not a process of nature one way or the other. Illegal immigration is a problem, but your attempt to dramatize it further through the misuse of language is unnecessary and indulgent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No dramatization or misuse of language on my part.    Why don't you research the huge negative impact that illegal aliens have on our own citizens?  Why so little respect for our immigration laws that you appear to defend illegal aliens but try to pretend you don't?
Click to expand...

The definition of "unnatural" is not something with a "huge negative impact." Unkotare is correct. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to define illegal immigration as unnatural.


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## pismoe

well ILLEGAL is the proper word !!


----------



## Oldglory1

ShackledNation said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Americans as a distinct group will be gone , over run in my opinion .   You already see Americans being over run in [example] s. calfornia  imo .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair there are many Hispanics (the group here in the largest numbers illegally) who are also citizens of this country.    We won't be overrun with illegal aliens but our demographics will certainly change.  I object to this unnatural and unlawful change and so do most sane and loyal Americans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Unnatural"?
> 
> 
> Seek help, headcase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please don't bother to reply to me if you can't be civil.   There is nothing natural about illegal immigration nor is it lawful.   It's a huge negative impact on our own citizens also.  Get back with me when Mexico embraces an illegal invasion from China and therefore turns into an Asian country culturally rather than a Hispanic one in identity.   Hypocrisy, anyone?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal immigration over political boundaries is not a process of nature one way or the other. Illegal immigration is a problem, but your attempt to dramatize it further through the misuse of language is unnecessary and indulgent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No dramatization or misuse of language on my part.    Why don't you research the huge negative impact that illegal aliens have on our own citizens?  Why so little respect for our immigration laws that you appear to defend illegal aliens but try to pretend you don't?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The definition of "unnatural" is not something with a "huge negative impact." Unkotare is correct. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to define illegal immigration as unnatural.
Click to expand...


So it's just plain natural for most human beings to crash a nation's borders illegally?  Really?   I note that neither of you would touch the word unlawful of which it certainly is.  What nation in the world would embrace the changing of their demographics in that manner?


----------



## ShackledNation

Oldglory1 said:


> ShackledNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Oldglory1 said:
> 
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> Unkotare said:
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> Unkotare said:
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> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Americans as a distinct group will be gone , over run in my opinion .   You already see Americans being over run in [example] s. calfornia  imo .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair there are many Hispanics (the group here in the largest numbers illegally) who are also citizens of this country.    We won't be overrun with illegal aliens but our demographics will certainly change.  I object to this unnatural and unlawful change and so do most sane and loyal Americans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Unnatural"?
> 
> 
> Seek help, headcase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please don't bother to reply to me if you can't be civil.   There is nothing natural about illegal immigration nor is it lawful.   It's a huge negative impact on our own citizens also.  Get back with me when Mexico embraces an illegal invasion from China and therefore turns into an Asian country culturally rather than a Hispanic one in identity.   Hypocrisy, anyone?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal immigration over political boundaries is not a process of nature one way or the other. Illegal immigration is a problem, but your attempt to dramatize it further through the misuse of language is unnecessary and indulgent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No dramatization or misuse of language on my part.    Why don't you research the huge negative impact that illegal aliens have on our own citizens?  Why so little respect for our immigration laws that you appear to defend illegal aliens but try to pretend you don't?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The definition of "unnatural" is not something with a "huge negative impact." Unkotare is correct. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to define illegal immigration as unnatural.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So it's just plain natural for most human beings to crash a nation's borders illegally?  Really?   I note that neither of you would touch the word unlawful of which it certainly is.  What nation in the world would embrace the changing of their demographics in that manner?
Click to expand...

It is not a question of natural or unnatural at all. The terms literally make absolutely no sense when describing illegal immigration. Obviously it isn't lawful...but lawful and natural are not synonyms.

If anything, immigration is natural. When faced with bad conditions, and seeing better conditions somewhere else, it is natural for people to immigrate. Legal barriers to that natural immigration making it illegal are more sensibly defined as unnatural than the immigration itself.


----------



## pismoe

if talking to me [pismoe] , I don't think that I've said anything about natural or unnatural .   All I said was ILLEGAL , and I don't like that .   Also , don't like LEGAL immigration very much either S.Nation .


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## Oldglory1

ShackledNation said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
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> ShackledNation said:
> 
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> Oldglory1 said:
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> Unkotare said:
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> Oldglory1 said:
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> Unkotare said:
> 
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> Oldglory1 said:
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Americans as a distinct group will be gone , over run in my opinion .   You already see Americans being over run in [example] s. calfornia  imo .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair there are many Hispanics (the group here in the largest numbers illegally) who are also citizens of this country.    We won't be overrun with illegal aliens but our demographics will certainly change.  I object to this unnatural and unlawful change and so do most sane and loyal Americans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Unnatural"?
> 
> 
> Seek help, headcase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please don't bother to reply to me if you can't be civil.   There is nothing natural about illegal immigration nor is it lawful.   It's a huge negative impact on our own citizens also.  Get back with me when Mexico embraces an illegal invasion from China and therefore turns into an Asian country culturally rather than a Hispanic one in identity.   Hypocrisy, anyone?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal immigration over political boundaries is not a process of nature one way or the other. Illegal immigration is a problem, but your attempt to dramatize it further through the misuse of language is unnecessary and indulgent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No dramatization or misuse of language on my part.    Why don't you research the huge negative impact that illegal aliens have on our own citizens?  Why so little respect for our immigration laws that you appear to defend illegal aliens but try to pretend you don't?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The definition of "unnatural" is not something with a "huge negative impact." Unkotare is correct. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to define illegal immigration as unnatural.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So it's just plain natural for most human beings to crash a nation's borders illegally?  Really?   I note that neither of you would touch the word unlawful of which it certainly is.  What nation in the world would embrace the changing of their demographics in that manner?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not a question of natural or unnatural at all. The terms literally make absolutely no sense when describing illegal immigration. Obviously it isn't lawful...but lawful and natural are not synonyms.
> 
> If anything, immigration is natural. When faced with bad conditions, and seeing better conditions somewhere else, it is natural for people to immigrate. Legal barriers to that natural immigration making it illegal are more sensibly defined as unnatural than the immigration itself.
Click to expand...

 
No, it is not natural for most humans to migrate to another country illegally.   Most people respect the rule of law, a nation's borders and its citizens that live within it.   If they are truly faced with bad conditions in their own countries then they would come as refugees providing they fit the description of  a refugee.    Just wanting a better life by economic gain does not make one a refugee.   If that were the case we'd have 2 billion impoverished migrating here.   Oh, joy!


----------



## ShackledNation

Oldglory1 said:


> ShackledNation said:
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> Oldglory1 said:
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> pismoe said:
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> Americans as a distinct group will be gone , over run in my opinion .   You already see Americans being over run in [example] s. calfornia  imo .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair there are many Hispanics (the group here in the largest numbers illegally) who are also citizens of this country.    We won't be overrun with illegal aliens but our demographics will certainly change.  I object to this unnatural and unlawful change and so do most sane and loyal Americans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Unnatural"?
> 
> 
> Seek help, headcase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please don't bother to reply to me if you can't be civil.   There is nothing natural about illegal immigration nor is it lawful.   It's a huge negative impact on our own citizens also.  Get back with me when Mexico embraces an illegal invasion from China and therefore turns into an Asian country culturally rather than a Hispanic one in identity.   Hypocrisy, anyone?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal immigration over political boundaries is not a process of nature one way or the other. Illegal immigration is a problem, but your attempt to dramatize it further through the misuse of language is unnecessary and indulgent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No dramatization or misuse of language on my part.    Why don't you research the huge negative impact that illegal aliens have on our own citizens?  Why so little respect for our immigration laws that you appear to defend illegal aliens but try to pretend you don't?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The definition of "unnatural" is not something with a "huge negative impact." Unkotare is correct. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to define illegal immigration as unnatural.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So it's just plain natural for most human beings to crash a nation's borders illegally?  Really?   I note that neither of you would touch the word unlawful of which it certainly is.  What nation in the world would embrace the changing of their demographics in that manner?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not a question of natural or unnatural at all. The terms literally make absolutely no sense when describing illegal immigration. Obviously it isn't lawful...but lawful and natural are not synonyms.
> 
> If anything, immigration is natural. When faced with bad conditions, and seeing better conditions somewhere else, it is natural for people to immigrate. Legal barriers to that natural immigration making it illegal are more sensibly defined as unnatural than the immigration itself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, it is not natural for most humans to migrate to another country illegally.   Most people respect the rule of law, a nation's borders and its citizens that live within it.   If they are truly faced with bad conditions in their own countries then they would come as refugees providing they fit the description of  a refugee.    Just wanting a better life by economic gain does not make one a refugee.   If that were the case we'd have 2 billion impoverished migrating here.   Oh, joy!
Click to expand...

The rule of law has nothing to do with nature. The philosophy the rule of law is based upon in the United States is that we need the law to overcome what the chaotic state of nature would be. 

You cannot call illegal immigration natural or unnatural. That makes no sense whatsoever. It would be like calling illegal immigration purple. Totally illogical use of words.


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> Unkotare said:
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> Oldglory1 said:
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> Unkotare said:
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> Oldglory1 said:
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> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Americans as a distinct group will be gone , over run in my opinion .   You already see Americans being over run in [example] s. calfornia  imo .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair there are many Hispanics (the group here in the largest numbers illegally) who are also citizens of this country.    We won't be overrun with illegal aliens but our demographics will certainly change.  I object to this unnatural and unlawful change and so do most sane and loyal Americans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Unnatural"?
> 
> 
> Seek help, headcase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please don't bother to reply to me if you can't be civil.   There is nothing natural about illegal immigration nor is it lawful.   It's a huge negative impact on our own citizens also.  Get back with me when Mexico embraces an illegal invasion from China and therefore turns into an Asian country culturally rather than a Hispanic one in identity.   Hypocrisy, anyone?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal immigration over political boundaries is not a process of nature one way or the other. Illegal immigration is a problem, but your attempt to dramatize it further through the misuse of language is unnecessary and indulgent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No dramatization or misuse of language on my part.    Why don't you research the huge negative impact that illegal aliens have on our own citizens?
Click to expand...



Do you imagine that someone is defending illegal immigration, headcase? Not me, dopey.


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## BillyP

Immigration reform: Close the fucking door! At least until there's no more hunger and unemployment in the US.


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## Oldglory1

Unkotare said:


> Oldglory1 said:
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> Unkotare said:
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> pismoe said:
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> Americans as a distinct group will be gone , over run in my opinion .   You already see Americans being over run in [example] s. calfornia  imo .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair there are many Hispanics (the group here in the largest numbers illegally) who are also citizens of this country.    We won't be overrun with illegal aliens but our demographics will certainly change.  I object to this unnatural and unlawful change and so do most sane and loyal Americans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Unnatural"?
> 
> 
> Seek help, headcase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please don't bother to reply to me if you can't be civil.   There is nothing natural about illegal immigration nor is it lawful.   It's a huge negative impact on our own citizens also.  Get back with me when Mexico embraces an illegal invasion from China and therefore turns into an Asian country culturally rather than a Hispanic one in identity.   Hypocrisy, anyone?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal immigration over political boundaries is not a process of nature one way or the other. Illegal immigration is a problem, but your attempt to dramatize it further through the misuse of language is unnecessary and indulgent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No dramatization or misuse of language on my part.    Why don't you research the huge negative impact that illegal aliens have on our own citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you imagine that someone is defending illegal immigration, headcase? Not me, dopey.
Click to expand...


Still can't debate without the name calling?   Your posts reek of defense of illegal aliens.


----------



## Oldglory1

ShackledNation said:


> Oldglory1 said:
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> Oldglory1 said:
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> pismoe said:
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> 
> Americans as a distinct group will be gone , over run in my opinion .   You already see Americans being over run in [example] s. calfornia  imo .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair there are many Hispanics (the group here in the largest numbers illegally) who are also citizens of this country.    We won't be overrun with illegal aliens but our demographics will certainly change.  I object to this unnatural and unlawful change and so do most sane and loyal Americans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Unnatural"?
> 
> 
> Seek help, headcase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please don't bother to reply to me if you can't be civil.   There is nothing natural about illegal immigration nor is it lawful.   It's a huge negative impact on our own citizens also.  Get back with me when Mexico embraces an illegal invasion from China and therefore turns into an Asian country culturally rather than a Hispanic one in identity.   Hypocrisy, anyone?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal immigration over political boundaries is not a process of nature one way or the other. Illegal immigration is a problem, but your attempt to dramatize it further through the misuse of language is unnecessary and indulgent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No dramatization or misuse of language on my part.    Why don't you research the huge negative impact that illegal aliens have on our own citizens?  Why so little respect for our immigration laws that you appear to defend illegal aliens but try to pretend you don't?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The definition of "unnatural" is not something with a "huge negative impact." Unkotare is correct. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to define illegal immigration as unnatural.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So it's just plain natural for most human beings to crash a nation's borders illegally?  Really?   I note that neither of you would touch the word unlawful of which it certainly is.  What nation in the world would embrace the changing of their demographics in that manner?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not a question of natural or unnatural at all. The terms literally make absolutely no sense when describing illegal immigration. Obviously it isn't lawful...but lawful and natural are not synonyms.
> 
> If anything, immigration is natural. When faced with bad conditions, and seeing better conditions somewhere else, it is natural for people to immigrate. Legal barriers to that natural immigration making it illegal are more sensibly defined as unnatural than the immigration itself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, it is not natural for most humans to migrate to another country illegally.   Most people respect the rule of law, a nation's borders and its citizens that live within it.   If they are truly faced with bad conditions in their own countries then they would come as refugees providing they fit the description of  a refugee.    Just wanting a better life by economic gain does not make one a refugee.   If that were the case we'd have 2 billion impoverished migrating here.   Oh, joy!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The rule of law has nothing to do with nature. The philosophy the rule of law is based upon in the United States is that we need the law to overcome what the chaotic state of nature would be.
> 
> You cannot call illegal immigration natural or unnatural. That makes no sense whatsoever. It would be like calling illegal immigration purple. Totally illogical use of words.
Click to expand...


 Laws trump someone's so-called nature to violate them.  If someone is pre-disposed to commit theft our laws trump that and you pay the consequences for doing so. It's the same thing with illegal immigration. And as I said, it isn't natural for most humans to violate those laws.  So therefore illegal immigration is not natural.  Nothing illogical about stating the truth and your purple analogy is quite laughable and desperate.  Why do you continue to defend illegal immigration by trying to make it appear that it is normal?


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> Your posts reek of defense of illegal aliens.




Forget whatever "reek" you are imagining. Show me the actual words or fuck off with your false accusations.


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## pismoe

Unkatore thinks that he is an expert on numbers of people coming to the USA .   He is pro immigration and illegal immigration is something he would fix by making illegal immigration legal .


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## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> Unkatore thinks... illegal immigration is something he would fix by making illegal immigration legal .




I never said anything remotely like that, you lying sack of shit. If you've got nothing to say, then shut the fuck up instead of so transparently trying to misrepresent me, you lowlife douche.


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## pismoe

all that needs to be done is to check out all yer postings on immigration , illegal immigration , numbers of immigrants into the USA to see your thinking on immigration Unkatore .   You are Pro Immigration by looking at yer past words and postings .  By the by , good morning , hope you slept well !!


----------



## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> all that needs to be done is to check out all yer postings on immigration , illegal immigration , numbers of immigrants into the USA to see your thinking on immigration Unkatore .  !!



By all means, look. I have always made it very clear that illegal immigration is a problem that needs to be addressed and that the government is shirking its duty in not controlling our borders. No need for you to fabricate, you low-life, lying sack of shit. Take a dollar and see if you can go buy some character.


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## pismoe

yewd just increase legal immigration , you like immigration into the USA , imo Unkatore .


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## pismoe

I can see you with yer sign Unkatore , your sign would say  ' stop illegal immigration by increasing Legal immigration ', actually pretty funny !!


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## BillyP

Unkotare said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unkatore thinks... illegal immigration is something he would fix by making illegal immigration legal .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said anything remotely like that, you lying sack of shit. If you've got nothing to say, then shut the fuck up instead of so transparently trying to misrepresent me, you lowlife douche.
Click to expand...

Uncle Tard says we have plenty of room in the US, keep the door open wide!!!


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## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> I can see you with yer sign Unkatore , your sign would say  ' stop illegal immigration by increasing Legal immigration ',




No it wouldn't, you lying sack of shit.


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## pismoe

yep , BILLY , I don't know your age but I'm 65 and the population of the USA has soared in the last 40 years and its due to immigration .   --- Hey Unkatore , howdy !!


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## ShackledNation

Oldglory1 said:


> ShackledNation said:
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> ShackledNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> The definition of "unnatural" is not something with a "huge negative impact." Unkotare is correct. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to define illegal immigration as unnatural.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So it's just plain natural for most human beings to crash a nation's borders illegally?  Really?   I note that neither of you would touch the word unlawful of which it certainly is.  What nation in the world would embrace the changing of their demographics in that manner?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not a question of natural or unnatural at all. The terms literally make absolutely no sense when describing illegal immigration. Obviously it isn't lawful...but lawful and natural are not synonyms.
> 
> If anything, immigration is natural. When faced with bad conditions, and seeing better conditions somewhere else, it is natural for people to immigrate. Legal barriers to that natural immigration making it illegal are more sensibly defined as unnatural than the immigration itself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, it is not natural for most humans to migrate to another country illegally.   Most people respect the rule of law, a nation's borders and its citizens that live within it.   If they are truly faced with bad conditions in their own countries then they would come as refugees providing they fit the description of  a refugee.    Just wanting a better life by economic gain does not make one a refugee.   If that were the case we'd have 2 billion impoverished migrating here.   Oh, joy!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The rule of law has nothing to do with nature. The philosophy the rule of law is based upon in the United States is that we need the law to overcome what the chaotic state of nature would be.
> 
> You cannot call illegal immigration natural or unnatural. That makes no sense whatsoever. It would be like calling illegal immigration purple. Totally illogical use of words.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laws trump someone's so-called nature to violate them.  If someone is pre-disposed to commit theft our laws trump that and you pay the consequences for doing so. It's the same thing with illegal immigration. And as I said, it isn't natural for most humans to violate those laws.  So therefore illegal immigration is not natural.  Nothing illogical about stating the truth and your purple analogy is quite laughable and desperate.  Why do you continue to defend illegal immigration by trying to make it appear that it is normal?
Click to expand...

Nobody is defending illegal immigration. The argument is that your use of the word unnatural to describe it is a nonsensical and improper use of the term. You are conflating "unlawful" with "unnatural." Please take a basic English vocabulary class to understand why those two words are not synonyms.


----------



## Unkotare

ShackledNation said:


> Nobody is defending illegal immigration. The argument is that your use of the word unnatural to describe it is a nonsensical and improper use of the term. You are conflating "unlawful" with "unnatural." Please take a basic English vocabulary class to understand why those two words are not synonyms.




He may be of the same ilk as that idiot with the hitler av who just 'decided' that the word "species" means whatever he needs it to. There is no hope for some morons.


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## pismoe

here you go Billy plus any other interested parties .   USA in 1970 was right at 200 million people in 1970 and life was great .   Now the USA runs about 305 million people .    That's the growth that I object to .   Its not a concern about feeding or housing because that's easily done .  --- 1970 United States Census - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia  ---   anyway , check it out !!


----------



## pismoe

check out the growth which the article comments on from 1960 to 1970 just for perspective !!


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## BillyP

Immigration reform: Block anyone from entering the US who is even REMOTELY linked to Uncle tard. We're full up on wankers as it is.


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## Oldglory1

ShackledNation said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
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> ShackledNation said:
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> ShackledNation said:
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> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it's just plain natural for most human beings to crash a nation's borders illegally?  Really?   I note that neither of you would touch the word unlawful of which it certainly is.  What nation in the world would embrace the changing of their demographics in that manner?
> 
> 
> 
> It is not a question of natural or unnatural at all. The terms literally make absolutely no sense when describing illegal immigration. Obviously it isn't lawful...but lawful and natural are not synonyms.
> 
> If anything, immigration is natural. When faced with bad conditions, and seeing better conditions somewhere else, it is natural for people to immigrate. Legal barriers to that natural immigration making it illegal are more sensibly defined as unnatural than the immigration itself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, it is not natural for most humans to migrate to another country illegally.   Most people respect the rule of law, a nation's borders and its citizens that live within it.   If they are truly faced with bad conditions in their own countries then they would come as refugees providing they fit the description of  a refugee.    Just wanting a better life by economic gain does not make one a refugee.   If that were the case we'd have 2 billion impoverished migrating here.   Oh, joy!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The rule of law has nothing to do with nature. The philosophy the rule of law is based upon in the United States is that we need the law to overcome what the chaotic state of nature would be.
> 
> You cannot call illegal immigration natural or unnatural. That makes no sense whatsoever. It would be like calling illegal immigration purple. Totally illogical use of words.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laws trump someone's so-called nature to violate them.  If someone is pre-disposed to commit theft our laws trump that and you pay the consequences for doing so. It's the same thing with illegal immigration. And as I said, it isn't natural for most humans to violate those laws.  So therefore illegal immigration is not natural.  Nothing illogical about stating the truth and your purple analogy is quite laughable and desperate.  Why do you continue to defend illegal immigration by trying to make it appear that it is normal?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody is defending illegal immigration. The argument is that your use of the word unnatural to describe it is a nonsensical and improper use of the term. You are conflating "unlawful" with "unnatural." Please take a basic English vocabulary class to understand why those two words are not synonyms.
Click to expand...


Please try some reading comprehension.  It is not natural for most humans to break a nation's immigration laws and that type of demographic takeover is neither natural nor lawful and completely unacceptable.  If you don't get that then I can't help you.


----------



## Oldglory1

pismoe said:


> Unkatore thinks that he is an expert on numbers of people coming to the USA .   He is pro immigration and illegal immigration is something he would fix by making illegal immigration legal .



Exactly, if one is pro-amnesty then they are pro-illegal immigration because they want to reward illegal aliens for breaking our immigration laws by allowing them to remain here. Their spin on this issue is so transparent.


----------



## ShackledNation

Oldglory1 said:


> ShackledNation said:
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> ShackledNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is not a question of natural or unnatural at all. The terms literally make absolutely no sense when describing illegal immigration. Obviously it isn't lawful...but lawful and natural are not synonyms.
> 
> If anything, immigration is natural. When faced with bad conditions, and seeing better conditions somewhere else, it is natural for people to immigrate. Legal barriers to that natural immigration making it illegal are more sensibly defined as unnatural than the immigration itself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it is not natural for most humans to migrate to another country illegally.   Most people respect the rule of law, a nation's borders and its citizens that live within it.   If they are truly faced with bad conditions in their own countries then they would come as refugees providing they fit the description of  a refugee.    Just wanting a better life by economic gain does not make one a refugee.   If that were the case we'd have 2 billion impoverished migrating here.   Oh, joy!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The rule of law has nothing to do with nature. The philosophy the rule of law is based upon in the United States is that we need the law to overcome what the chaotic state of nature would be.
> 
> You cannot call illegal immigration natural or unnatural. That makes no sense whatsoever. It would be like calling illegal immigration purple. Totally illogical use of words.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laws trump someone's so-called nature to violate them.  If someone is pre-disposed to commit theft our laws trump that and you pay the consequences for doing so. It's the same thing with illegal immigration. And as I said, it isn't natural for most humans to violate those laws.  So therefore illegal immigration is not natural.  Nothing illogical about stating the truth and your purple analogy is quite laughable and desperate.  Why do you continue to defend illegal immigration by trying to make it appear that it is normal?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody is defending illegal immigration. The argument is that your use of the word unnatural to describe it is a nonsensical and improper use of the term. You are conflating "unlawful" with "unnatural." Please take a basic English vocabulary class to understand why those two words are not synonyms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please try some reading comprehension.  It is not natural for most humans to break a nation's immigration laws and that type of demographic takeover is neither natural nor lawful and completely unacceptable.  If you don't get that then I can't help you.
Click to expand...

I can read just fine. But no matter how many times you post the same thing over and over, your conflation of "unnatural" and "unlawful" is simply incorrect.


----------



## saveliberty

Heads we shoot them, tails they have to live at jakestarkey's house?


----------



## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> Now the USA runs about 305 million people .    That's the growth that I object to .  !



Too fucking bad. If you aren't satisfied, leave. The nation doesn't need you.


----------



## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> USA in 1970 was right at 200 million people in 1970 and life was great .



And in 1950 it was about 150 million, and in 1920 it was about 100 million, etc., etc. At each point there have been whiny nobodies like you bitching and moaning about it.


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unkatore thinks that he is an expert on numbers of people coming to the USA .   He is pro immigration and illegal immigration is something he would fix by making illegal immigration legal .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly, if one is pro-amnesty then they are pro-illegal immigration
Click to expand...


Who on this thread has declared themselves "pro-amnesty"?


----------



## pismoe

and we'll keep pizzin and moanin Unkatore .   You like the growing population of the USA  , I do not .    200 million in 1970 is better than the 305 million that we have today in 2014 .  And what will the population be in another 20 years .   Will it be 330 million ??


----------



## pismoe

you don't have to declare , you are pro immigration and that all by itself is bad enough Unkatore .


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## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> and we'll keep pizzin and moanin Unkatore .   You like the growing population of the USA  , I do not .    200 million in 1970 is better than the 305 million that we have today in 2014 .  And what will the population be in another 20 years .   Will it be 330 million ??




You'll like the shrinking population of the US even less.


----------



## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> you don't have to declare , you are pro immigration and that all by itself is bad enough Unkatore .




The UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is "pro-immigration" you idiot. That is NOT the same as being pro illegal-immigration.


----------



## pismoe

and it shouldn't be PRO immigration Uncatore , USA should be neutral , restrictive and protective of the USA .  There is no Right to immigrate to the USA !!


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## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> and it shouldn't be PRO immigration




Yes, it should.


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## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> There is no Right to immigrate to the USA !!




No one said there was. Put away your straw man.


----------



## pismoe

so , if no Right , stop the swell in population numbers in the USA .  200 million in 1970 and 305 million in 2014 , lots more if illegals are counted .   Probably about 330 million in the USA right now !!


----------



## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> so , if no Right , stop the swell in population numbers in the USA .  200 million in 1970 and 305 million in 2014 , lots more if illegals are counted .   Probably about 330 million in the USA right now !!




I've told you many times now that the future holds challenges for the US (and most other nations) in population decline, not "swelling." I've also told you many times that legal and illegal immigration are not the same thing. 

If you want to stay in your little bunker with the shades drawn, that's fine. Just STFU about issues relating to the country at large.


----------



## pismoe

just stop the immigration of all kinds Unkatore .   It might happen with the way many Americans are worked up by ISIS infiltrators coming over the border .    Plus  the new illegal alien school FLU that suddenly appeared when little illegals started going to public schools and distributing FLU  .   Plus , all the other diseases brought across the border .    Yeah , I don't know , I'm thinking that maybe Americans are waking up to the dissolution of America !!


----------



## pismoe

yeah , listen to Unkatore as if he is working fer the good of Americans .   Like I said , 200 million people in the USA in 1970 and 305 to 330 million including illegals in the USA in 2014 .     You are no authority other than a pro immigration proponent Unkatore .


----------



## MDiver

With some of our nation's rivers used to the point where they no longer reach the ocean and more frequent droughts continuing to diminish the water availability, we should just end ALL immigration across the board.
If people want to leave that would be fine, however, the continued influx of immigrants (regardless of what nation they come from) just puts more stress on already dwindling resources.


----------



## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> just stop the immigration of all kinds Unkatore .




No, not gonna happen no matter how frightened you are or how much you fail to understand this nation.


----------



## Unkotare

MDiver said:


> With some of our nation's rivers used to the point where they no longer reach the ocean and more frequent droughts continuing to diminish the water availability, we should just end ALL immigration across the board...




No.

Arizona Floods Feared as Odile Winds Down Over Southwest - NBC News


----------



## pismoe

good to see your post MDIVER , my main problem is population growth within the USA .   I'd like to see it stopped and reduced .   See the census numbers that I posted from 1970 to what it is now .


----------



## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> good to see your post MDIVER , my main problem is population growth within the USA .   .




It is not a problem, as I have explained to you many times. You are a timorous, myopic little fool.


----------



## pismoe

you've explained , yer concerns and mine are not the same Unkatore so your explain means nothing to me .   You have an agenda to grow USA population whereas I don't .   Mostly I just want the numbers and growth of the USA to be out in view .   In 1970 the USA had 200 million and in 2014 we have about 330 million .


----------



## Unkotare

You are an illogical, irrational fool.


----------



## pismoe

just so that the numbers of population growth in the USA can be seen and recognized Unkatore , that's all I want ---  200 million in 1970 and 330 million in 2014 !!


----------



## Unkotare

You can't even be honest about that.


----------



## pismoe

census of the USA ---  1970 United States Census - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia  ---   200 million in 1970 , 308 million in 2010 ,   I add in another 10 - 20 million IILEGALS to arrive at my number of 330 million people in the USA today .  That's far too many Unkatore !!


----------



## MDiver

Unkotare, floods are episodic events which cause runoff of topsoil and crop destruction and are not beneficial to the soil enrichment.  Good topsoil is needed for sustained crop growth and grass growth for cattle and regular seasonal rains (not flooding) are that which helps the topsoil.  We are having torrential rains which cause the flooding, however, regular seasonal rains which is what helps the soil, are diminishing; end result is less crops and less grasses to feed beef and dairy cattle.  I grew up and worked on my uncle's farm and any flooding was devastating to the crops.
A decrease in the population via ending immigration and continuing to allow emigration, would result in less stress on our dwindling resources.


----------



## ShackledNation

Immigration has no effect on the weather, MDiver.


----------



## Oldglory1

ShackledNation said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShackledNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShackledNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, it is not natural for most humans to migrate to another country illegally.   Most people respect the rule of law, a nation's borders and its citizens that live within it.   If they are truly faced with bad conditions in their own countries then they would come as refugees providing they fit the description of  a refugee.    Just wanting a better life by economic gain does not make one a refugee.   If that were the case we'd have 2 billion impoverished migrating here.   Oh, joy!
> 
> 
> 
> The rule of law has nothing to do with nature. The philosophy the rule of law is based upon in the United States is that we need the law to overcome what the chaotic state of nature would be.
> 
> You cannot call illegal immigration natural or unnatural. That makes no sense whatsoever. It would be like calling illegal immigration purple. Totally illogical use of words.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laws trump someone's so-called nature to violate them.  If someone is pre-disposed to commit theft our laws trump that and you pay the consequences for doing so. It's the same thing with illegal immigration. And as I said, it isn't natural for most humans to violate those laws.  So therefore illegal immigration is not natural.  Nothing illogical about stating the truth and your purple analogy is quite laughable and desperate.  Why do you continue to defend illegal immigration by trying to make it appear that it is normal?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody is defending illegal immigration. The argument is that your use of the word unnatural to describe it is a nonsensical and improper use of the term. You are conflating "unlawful" with "unnatural." Please take a basic English vocabulary class to understand why those two words are not synonyms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please try some reading comprehension.  It is not natural for most humans to break a nation's immigration laws and that type of demographic takeover is neither natural nor lawful and completely unacceptable.  If you don't get that then I can't help you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can read just fine. But no matter how many times you post the same thing over and over, your conflation of "unnatural" and "unlawful" is simply incorrect.
Click to expand...


I get it .   It is natural for most human beings to break the law, right?  And it's just a "natural" demographic takeover via illegal immigration, right? (insert rolling eyes here).


----------



## ShackledNation

Your conflation of "unnatural" and "unlawful" is simply incorrect. Refer to the dictionary.


----------



## Unkotare

"I add in another..."

Yeah.....


----------



## Unkotare

ShackledNation said:


> Your conflation of "unnatural" and "unlawful" is simply incorrect. Refer to the dictionary.



You are right, of course.

What a strange point for him to become obstinate over.


----------



## ShackledNation

Unkotare said:


> ShackledNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your conflation of "unnatural" and "unlawful" is simply incorrect. Refer to the dictionary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are right, of course.
> 
> What a strange point for him to become obstinate over.
Click to expand...

I agree. It is bizarre. At this point, I see no further point in arguing with someone with basic vocabulary comprehension problems.


----------



## Oldglory1

ShackledNation said:


> Your conflation of "unnatural" and "unlawful" is simply incorrect. Refer to the dictionary.



Why don't you and your buddy just answer my questions instead?  Is it "natural" for most humans to break the law in this case our immigration laws?  Is it a "natural" demographic takeover via illegal immigration?   In both cases the word natural is appropriate but your apparent sympathies for illegal aliens blinds you and won't allow you to accept the truth that illegal immigration is neither natural nor lawful.  So you pick apart the world natural instead.  Anything to divert from the truth though, right?


----------



## Unkotare

Oldgloryhole's odd form of aphasia has nothing to do with the issue of illegal immigration.


----------



## BillyP

Illegals should be given a life sentence in Mexico.


----------



## Oldglory1

Unkotare said:


> Oldgloryhole's odd form of aphasia has nothing to do with the issue of illegal immigration.



LOL!  You just gave yourself away by using the word "Oldgloryhole".   Does the Topix forum ring a bell?  

My views have everything to do with illegal immigration and you can't stand that with your hint at the race card.  I know exactly where you stand on this issue and you can deny it all you want but it doesn't change a thing.


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> Does the Topix forum ring a bell? .




No.


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> My views have everything to do with illegal immigration .




No, they have to do with your inability to understand the English language.


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> with your hint at the race card. ...




What hint was that?


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> I know exactly where you stand on this issue ....




And where exactly is that?


----------



## pismoe

simple , Unkatore likes a growing population of immigrants !!


----------



## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> simple , Unkatore likes a growing population of immigrants !!




Is it time for Wapner yet, Rain Man?


----------



## pismoe

[funny] yeah , hows it going Forest Unkatore Gump  ??    Still , I stand by my thinking that you just like a growing population of immigrants .   According to what you've said earlier you want this growing population of third worlders to save the USA in some way !!


----------



## Unkotare

Go sleep it off, moe.


----------



## pismoe

maybe you are thinking that yewl be their boss and role model ehh Unkatore ??


----------



## pismoe

in awhile Shemp Unkatore  , in a while !!


----------



## pismoe

hey Unkatore and anyone else ,  notice just fer grins who  the guy was that started with the name calling just a few posts towards the top .   Just want to make it clear that it wasn't me that started calling names .  --- bump !!


----------



## Oldglory1

pismoe said:


> [funny] yeah , hows it going Forest Unkatore Gump  ??    Still , I stand by my thinking that you just like a growing population of immigrants .   According to what you've said earlier you want this growing population of third worlders to save the USA in some way !!



My guess is that he wants us to become a Hispanic nation and it doesn't matter to him whether it happens legally or illegally just as long as it happens.


----------



## pismoe

might be OldGlory , the guy seems to think that the USA needs a flow of immigrants and a growing population .   I see no reason for either , especially the growing population .  200 million in 1970 and 308 million in 2014 but I call it 330 million [about] if the illegals already in the USA are taken into account  .


----------



## Oldglory1

pismoe said:


> might be OldGlory , the guy seems to think that the USA needs a flow of immigrants and a growing population .   I see no reason for either , especially the growing population .  200 million in 1970 and 308 million in 2014 but I call it 330 million [about] if the illegals already in the USA are taken into account  .



In a topix forum someone used the handle of "oldgloryhole" to  make fun of my stance on illegal immigration with implications that I am a racist for objecting to it.  Coincidence that he called me that here in this forum?   I don't think so!


----------



## pismoe

he's a name caller , fer sure .    And yep , you may be correct in what you suspect about Topix .


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> My guess is that he wants us to become a Hispanic nation and it doesn't matter to him whether it happens legally or illegally just as long as it happens.



Your "guess" would be completely wrong. Good job being stupid. Maybe your boyfriend will come back and defend your stupidity.


----------



## pismoe

[Funny] , hows it going Unkatore .    Well , WHY do you want a growing immigrant population in the USA ??


----------



## Oldglory1

Unkotare said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My guess is that he wants us to become a Hispanic nation and it doesn't matter to him whether it happens legally or illegally just as long as it happens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your "guess" would be completely wrong. Good job being stupid. Maybe your boyfriend will come back and defend your stupidity.
Click to expand...


Still childishly resorting to insults?   Typical liberal, ethnocentric, illegal alien lover.   I'm a hetrosexual male married to a woman so I don't have nor want a boyfriend.   Keep the insults flying though shows you've lost the discussion.   So where did you come up with the handle of "oldgloryhole" if not in the Topix forum?   Got a dishonest streak I see to.


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My guess is that he wants us to become a Hispanic nation and it doesn't matter to him whether it happens legally or illegally just as long as it happens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your "guess" would be completely wrong. Good job being stupid. Maybe your boyfriend will come back and defend your stupidity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Still childishly resorting to insults?  ...
Click to expand...


That is your whine after posting "he wants us to become a Hispanic nation and it doesn't matter to him whether it happens legally or illegally just as long as it happens"? Fuck off, hypocrite.


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> [  Typical liberal, ethnocentric, illegal alien lover.  ....




Wrong, wrong, and wrong, idiot.


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> I'm a hetrosexual male married to a woman so I don't have nor want a boyfriend.   ....




Not very convincing.


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> So where did you come up with the handle of "oldgloryhole"....




Gosh, no two people on earth could have landed on that obvious play on your inappropriate screen name...


----------



## Oldglory1

Unkotare said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So where did you come up with the handle of "oldgloryhole"....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gosh, no two people on earth could have landed on that obvious play on your inappropriate screen name...
Click to expand...


Yeah sure thing.   Just a coincidence.   Your foul mouth, insinuations that I'm gay and constant insults just proves more and more that you posted in the Toxpix forum under "oldgloryhole".    You fit right in with that childish bunch.


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So where did you come up with the handle of "oldgloryhole"....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gosh, no two people on earth could have landed on that obvious play on your inappropriate screen name...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah sure thing.   Just a coincidence.   Your foul mouth, insinuations that I'm gay and constant insults just proves more and more that you posted in the Toxpix forum under "oldgloryhole".    You fit right in with that childish bunch.
Click to expand...



Take it up with your shrink. I don't know what the hell you're talking about, fool.


----------



## BillyP

Immigration reform: Stop letting in white people. No wait! We already did that!!


----------



## Oldglory1

Unkotare said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So where did you come up with the handle of "oldgloryhole"....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gosh, no two people on earth could have landed on that obvious play on your inappropriate screen name...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah sure thing.   Just a coincidence.   Your foul mouth, insinuations that I'm gay and constant insults just proves more and more that you posted in the Toxpix forum under "oldgloryhole".    You fit right in with that childish bunch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Take it up with your shrink. I don't know what the hell you're talking about, fool.
Click to expand...


You're the one who needs a shrink as to why an adult (assuming you are one) has to resort to the "F" word all the time and stupid insults instead of debating with civility.    There is nothing "common" about the term "Oldgloryhole" either.


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> You're the one who needs a shrink as to why an adult (assuming you are one) has to resort to the "F" word all the time and stupid insults instead of debating with civility.    There is nothing "common" about the term "Oldgloryhole" either.


----------



## Oldglory1

Unkotare said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're the one who needs a shrink as to why an adult (assuming you are one) has to resort to the "F" word all the time and stupid insults instead of debating with civility.    There is nothing "common" about the term "Oldgloryhole" either.
Click to expand...


Is that all you've got?    Can't admit that you act like a child in here yourself with your foul language and insults and yet I'm the baby?   Get lost!


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> Is that all you've got?    Won't admit that you can't be civil so I'm the one who is the baby?   Get lost!





Fix your quote, idiot.


----------



## pismoe

yep , about 200 million people in the USA in 1970 and about 308 million in the USA in the 2010 census .   Course I round the numbers off at about 330 million because I include the 20 or so million illegals that are also in the USA .    Mornin Unkatore , you old name caller you !!


----------



## Unkotare

Shortsighted fools feel very good until that first step off the cliff they weren't looking at for years and years.


----------



## pismoe

yep , we're all gonna die ehh , Unkatore ??  [funny]


----------



## Oldglory1

Unkotare said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that all you've got?    Won't admit that you can't be civil so I'm the one who is the baby?   Get lost!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fix your quote, idiot.
Click to expand...


Fix your attitude, idiot.


----------



## pismoe

thing is that Unkatore never explains his reasoning as to why immigration is good for existing Americans that are living in the USA .    He only  gives dire warnings , calls names and tries to scare about a lack of immigrants .  I don't know wots up with him !!   I just wish that he'd explain his reasoning , just fer grins !!


----------



## Oldglory1

Unkotare said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that all you've got?    Won't admit that you can't be civil so I'm the one who is the baby?   Get lost!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fix your quote, idiot.
Click to expand...




pismoe said:


> thing is that Unkatore never explains his reasoning as to why immigration is good for existing Americans that are living in the USA .    He only  gives dire warnings , calls names and tries to scare about a lack of immigrants .  I don't know wots up with him !!   I just wish that he'd explain his reasoning , just fer grins !!



He can't and won't explain it truthfully because it would expose his agenda.    I already mentioned what I believe his agenda is.


----------



## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> thing is that Unkatore never explains his reasoning as to why immigration is good for existing Americans that are living in the USA .




It's too bad you are incapable of the rudimentary reasoning involved in understanding just how stupid that statement is.


Leaving aside the mountains of data I have thrown in your insipid face, where exactly do you think "Americans that are living in the USA" came from?


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that all you've got?    Won't admit that you can't be civil so I'm the one who is the baby?   Get lost!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fix your quote, idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> thing is that Unkatore never explains his reasoning as to why immigration is good for existing Americans that are living in the USA .    He only  gives dire warnings , calls names and tries to scare about a lack of immigrants .  I don't know wots up with him !!   I just wish that he'd explain his reasoning , just fer grins !!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He can't and won't explain it truthfully because it would expose his agenda.    I already mentioned what I believe his agenda is.
Click to expand...



What "agenda" is that, oldgloryhole? Come straight out with it. Better yet, ask me instead of making more of a fool of yourself.


----------



## pismoe

see wot I mean , Unkatore never says anything other than to try to be insulting .  yep , 200 million in 1970 and 308 million in 2014 plus the 20 million or so illegal aliens in the USA .


----------



## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> see wot I mean , Unkatore never says anything other than to try to be insulting . ....




You meant to say that I have proven everything I've claimed to you dozens of times, and you have - in true Rain Man fashion - merely ignored the truth to chant your mindless mantra. It's not my fault you're a shameless idiot.


----------



## pismoe

yer living in the past Unkatore !!


----------



## Oldglory1

Unkotare said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that all you've got?    Won't admit that you can't be civil so I'm the one who is the baby?   Get lost!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fix your quote, idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> thing is that Unkatore never explains his reasoning as to why immigration is good for existing Americans that are living in the USA .    He only  gives dire warnings , calls names and tries to scare about a lack of immigrants .  I don't know wots up with him !!   I just wish that he'd explain his reasoning , just fer grins !!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He can't and won't explain it truthfully because it would expose his agenda.    I already mentioned what I believe his agenda is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What "agenda" is that, oldgloryhole? Come straight out with it. Better yet, ask me instead of making more of a fool of yourself.
Click to expand...


Go back and read the post where I mentioned your agenda already.  Now who's the fool?


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> Now who's the fool?




Still you. What "agenda" did you dream up in your widdle imagination, oldgloryhole?


----------



## pismoe

morning perfessor Unkatore !!


----------



## Oldglory1

Unkotare said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now who's the fool?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still you. What "agenda" did you dream up in your widdle imagination, oldgloryhole?
Click to expand...


It's, Olglory1 not "oldgloryhole" you childish POS!   You already replied to me several posts ago about what I believe is your agenda.  Do you have Aldlheimers or are incapable of going back a few posts to refresh your memory?    This is the illegal immigration forum so if it is legal immigrants that you claim you desire then why even post about them under "this" forum?


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now who's the fool?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still you. What "agenda" did you dream up in your widdle imagination, oldgloryhole?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's, Olglory1 not "oldgloryhole" you childish POS!   You already replied to me several posts ago about what I believe is your agenda.  Do you have Aldlheimers or are incapable of going back a few posts to refresh your memory?    This is the illegal immigration forum so if it is legal immigrants that you claim you desire then why even post about them under "this" forum?
Click to expand...



Why won't you just say what "agenda" you are _imagining_, oldgloryhole?


----------



## pismoe

ya didn't ask me but I think you just want to make sure that you have a pension coming in in yer old age 'perfessor Unkatore' !!


----------



## Oldglory1

pismoe said:


> ya didn't ask me but I think you just want to make sure that you have a pension coming in in yer old age 'perfessor Unkatore' !!



Don't you find it interesting and very telling that one would post about legal immigration in the illegal immigration forum?  Hmm.  Whom among us is opposed to legal immigration in reasonable quotas based on our ability to provide them with jobs and resources?   But this forum isn't about that.   It's about ILLEGAL immigration.


----------



## Unkotare

What's 'interesting' is how many people seem unwilling or unable to truly distinguish between legal and illegal immigration. But then, some people seem to revel in their ignorance....


----------



## Oldglory1

The advocates for illegal aliens are the worst offenders when it comes to distinguishing between legal and illegal "immigrants".    They often call illegal aliens plain ole immigrants when they are not.   They blur the lines between the two groups to take the attention away from the fact that illegal aliens are here in violation of our immigration laws and bypassed the system that legal immigrants followed.   Legal immigrants should feel insulted by this and rightly so.   Amnesty for them would be an even bigger insult.

Another thing is that I am not here to discuss legal immigration because this is the illegal immigration forum.   So it isn't me that doesn't know the difference.


----------



## pismoe

I think that Unkatore may be being respectful at last , there were no insults by him in his last post !!     ME , distinction between legal and illegal immigrants is moot , we have a growing population in the USA and so I'd like to see both forms of immigration both legal and illegal stopped .  Population in USA in 1970 was 200 million , census numbers for 2010 was 308 million people in the USA and that's not counting the 20 or so million illegal immigrants that are in the USA .


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> The advocates for illegal aliens are the worst offenders when it comes to distinguishing between legal and illegal "immigrants".   ...




If you find any such advocates you can take that up with them, oldgloryhole.


----------



## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> ME , distinction between legal and illegal immigrants is moot , we have a growing population in the USA and so I'd like to see both forms of immigration both legal and illegal stopped .  ....




Hey oldgloryhole, you see that? ^^^ That's the kind of idiotic asshole I was telling you about.


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> Another thing is that I am not here to discuss legal immigration because this is the illegal immigration forum.  ...




Don't worry, you are free to discuss anything related to immigration here. You're the nervous sort, eh?


----------



## pismoe

yeah PERFESSOR of philosophy Unkatore , practitioner and teacher of a pseudo science .   I don't see a reason to grow Americas population past what it is .    More population just makes things more crowded and less pleasant for existing Americans .   American traditions and laws CHANGE so as to accommodate the imported foreigners .   Doesn't make sense to me to do that just so yew can be provided with a pension check .   Otherwise , hows it going Perfessor Unkatore  ,  are  you sober yet ??


----------



## Oldglory1

Until I am referred to in name correctly and with respect and without insults I won't respond to the adolescent child.  Once again the topic of this forum is illegal immigration not legal immigration nor population growth from legal immigration.   If one wants to discuss uncontrolled population growth from illegal immigration and the negative impact it has (which is what it is) I will be more than willing to discuss that.   Legalizing millions of illegal aliens negates our sensible annual immigration quotas.


----------



## Oldglory1

pismoe said:


> yeah PERFESSOR of philosophy Unkatore , practitioner and teacher of a pseudo science .   I don't see a reason to grow Americas population past what it is .    More population just makes things more crowded and less pleasant for existing Americans .   American traditions and laws CHANGE so as to accommodate the imported foreigners .   Doesn't make sense to me to do that just so yew can be provided with a pension check .   Otherwise , hows it going Perfessor Unkatore  ,  are  you sober yet ??



He would be thrilled to see illegal aliens given amnesty to help fulfill his population growth fantasies (mostly by Hispanics).   It would transform our country demographically and that is really what he desires.


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## pismoe

there you go OldGLORY , the guy is impolite , wants what he wants and the rest of us can be damned .   He doesn't even discuss his reasons for wanting population growth other than that Americans will be sorry if America doesn't grow its population with imported people .


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## Oldglory1

pismoe said:


> there you go OldGLORY , the guy is impolite , wants what he wants and the rest of us can be damned .   He doesn't even discuss his reasons for wanting population growth other than that Americans will be sorry if America doesn't grow its population with imported people .



That's because he can't discuss his reasons for advocating for more population growth truthfully because his agenda would be exposed.  I have mentioned his agenda a couple of times but he plays dumb like I never posted it and yet he replied with a denial to it.   WTH?


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## Unkotare

oldgloryhole doesn't realize how transparent he is.


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## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> That's because he can't discuss his reasons for advocating for more population growth




I have "advocated" no such thing, oldgloryhole. Don't be influenced by pissforbrains.


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## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> I have mentioned his agenda a couple of times




What "agenda" are you imagining, oldgloryhole?


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## pismoe

piffle and twattle Unkatore !!   [grin]


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## Oldglory1

pismoe said:


> piffle and twattle Unkatore !!   [grin]



Don't you just love the faked Aldheimers by the adolescent in here?    Apparently he lacks the ability to even scroll back to post #255 in here.  His agenda was discussed under another topic as well.   Also how does one reply to a post that they claim they have never even read? (insert rolling eyes here).   I guess dishonesty is just a way of life for some.


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## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> piffle and twattle Unkatore !!   [grin]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you just love the faked Aldheimers [sic]
Click to expand...



Looks like you're not faking.


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## Taz

Immigration reform: we should stop our production of beans, tacos and tortillas, then all the Mexicans will be so homesick for a burrito that they'll go back home.


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## Abishai100

*Transit Bank*

Much of immigration is based on global mismanagment of trade parity and the economic inequalities that arise naturally from capitalism.

Immigrants cross-over illegally seeking that elusive 'American Dream.'

If there was greater dissemination of information about the educational opportunities and employment incentives for recent migrants who come to America legally, the allure of illegal immigration would diminish.

One possible solution is to promote general tourism optimism that arises from modern age trade-related globalization (i.e., eTrade).  A person can obtain GSM mobile phone access and call anyone from anywhere around the world while traveling.  Surely, this grants a more positive aura to the travel/tourism industry and the airline industry.  A Chinese man traveling on Brisith Airways from Beijing to New York while enjoying an in-flight presentation of the migration-optimism Hollywood (USA) movie "Coming to America" (1988) may just be the sort of culture stimulation we need to hear more about in the illegal immigration circus.

Would a young Mexican woman aspiring to be an airline stewardess seriously consider the profitability of immigrating to America illegally?

Maybe we just need to talk more about this sort of messy stuff.






Airline U.S. TV series - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


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## Unkotare

Windship said:


> furthermore...the mex don't WANT to speak English. The hate it........





That is, of course, just stupid and untrue.


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## Windship

Unkotare said:


> Windship said:
> 
> 
> 
> furthermore...the mex don't WANT to speak English. The hate it........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is, of course, just stupid and untrue.
Click to expand...


Yes it is true. Come to soCal and see then see, maybe, your ignorance.


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## yiostheoy

Wow!  This is a really old dead tired resurrected thread !!!


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## yiostheoy

Windship said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Windship said:
> 
> 
> 
> furthermore...the mex don't WANT to speak English. The hate it........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is, of course, just stupid and untrue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes it is true. Come to soCal and see then see, maybe, your ignorance.
Click to expand...

And it's all your fault, Nazi.


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## Unkotare

Windship said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Windship said:
> 
> 
> 
> furthermore...the mex don't WANT to speak English. The hate it........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is, of course, just stupid and untrue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes it is true. ....
Click to expand...




Wrong. Have you ever worked with immigrant populations? Gotten to know immigrants from Mexico and elsewhere as human beings rather than stereotypes?


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