# The Reason for Poverty Among Blacks is Not Racism



## Lisa558 (Apr 8, 2022)

The reason for poverty among blacks who remain poor (most are working class or above) is the same reason that whites in poverty remain poor. It is due to having babies while still in one’s teens, without a husband, and often without completing high school as a result.

Anyone can break free of poverty by doing the following, at a minimum:

1) If you have sex while in high school (not everyone does, by the way), use birth control consistently. Double up, even, because a pregnancy at this stage of life will likely result in a life of financial struggle. Thus, your chance of an unwanted pregnancy drops from “probably” to about 1 in 200.

2) Unencumbered by a baby, complete high school and then use a Pell Grant to get a free community college education focused on a vocational track. That right there moves you into the lower-middle class.

That’s it. Race is not a factor. In fact, the only two poor people I interact with on a consistent basis are white women both had babies (one at 15 and one at 17) and did not complete high school.


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## Hang on Sloopy (Apr 8, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The reason for poverty among blacks who remain poor (most are working class or above) is the same reason that whites in poverty remain poor. It is due to having babies while still in one’s teens, without a husband, and often without completing high school as a result.
> 
> Anyone can break free of poverty by doing the following, at a minimum:
> 
> ...


It is really that simple isn't it?

My Lisa you really must have these stumps scratching their heads......lolol

Thank you for your contribz


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## Lisa558 (Apr 8, 2022)

Hang on Sloopy said:


> It is really that simple isn't it?
> 
> My Lisa you really must have these stumps scratching their heads......lolol
> 
> Thank you for your contribz


Thank you. And it’s not rocket science, either. It’s just those two simple things: no babies before marriage, and get some basic job training (which is provided tuition free by taxpayers).


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## Hang on Sloopy (Apr 8, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Thank you. And it’s not rocket science, either. It’s just those two simple things: no babies before marriage, and get some basic job training (which is provided tuition free by taxpayers).


These people have been so brainwashed by the media, the schools, and the DNC. Their just cyborgs amass


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## Dogmaphobe (Apr 8, 2022)

I think an even bigger contributor is cultural.

 Take the contempt for education, the Uncle Tomming of fellow blacks and the built in excuse that all failings are the result of racism and you have quite the recipe for failure.


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## Lisa558 (Apr 8, 2022)

Dogmaphobe said:


> I think an even bigger contributor is cultural.
> 
> Take the contempt for education, the Uncle Tomming of fellow blacks and the built in excuse that all failings are the result of racism and you have quite the recipe for failure.


Yes, and the liberals aren’t helping. Anytime we bring up the root causes of poverty, they have a meltdown - and start in with the name-calling - if we don’t attribute it primarily to racism.


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## Dogmaphobe (Apr 8, 2022)

Hang on Sloopy said:


> These people have been so brainwashed by the media, the schools, and the DNC. Their just cyborgs amass


The DNC wants black people to fail, so they can blame that failure on others while positing themselves as the solution.

They use demagoguery to get elected so they can profit financially.  The party really doesn't have any sort of real platform any more -- simply a strategy for getting elected based upon exploiting people's identity.


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## Dogmaphobe (Apr 8, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yes, and the liberals aren’t helping. Anytime we bring up the root causes of poverty, they have a meltdown - and start in with the name-calling - if we don’t attribute it primarily to racism.


Well, the leftists, any way.

 Liberalism is not about identity politics as it is predicated upon egalitarianism rather than this elaborate system of privilege.


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## Hang on Sloopy (Apr 8, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yes, and the liberals aren’t helping. Anytime we bring up the root causes of poverty, they have a meltdown - and start in with the name-calling - if we don’t attribute it primarily to racism.


Poverty and dumbing down people are how Democraps roll to victory

Now that the libturds will be out of the way, it will be the dawning of the Age of Aquarius


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## Lisa558 (Apr 8, 2022)

Dogmaphobe said:


> The DNC wants black people to fail, so they can blame that failure on others while positing themselves as the solution.
> 
> They use demagoguery to get elected so they can profit financially.  The party really doesn't have any sort of real platform any more -- simply a strategy for getting elected based upon exploiting people's identity.


That’s because they don’t want a color-blind society. They want to break everyone down into identity groups, which Then FOCUSES on the identity of someone more than any other attributes. The first attribute for the SCOTUS nominee was that she be black and a woman (although how they were able to pick a woman is beyond me, since none of them is a biologist), and then whittle the selection down once thst racial and gender restriction was met.


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## Lisa558 (Apr 8, 2022)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Well, the leftists, any way.
> 
> Liberalism is not about identity politics as it is predicated upon egalitarianism rather than this elaborate system of privilege.


Liberals are desperately trying to hold onto the traditional meaning of their ideology, but the left has so hijacked the party that it is a losing battle. When mainstream Dems like Pelosi and Schumer kowtow to the  left, then the divide between liberal and leftist disappears. What is the difference between a leftist, and a liberal who goes along with leftist ideology?


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## Lisa558 (Apr 8, 2022)

Hang on Sloopy said:


> Poverty and dumbing down people are how Democraps roll to victory
> 
> Now that the libturds will be out of the way, it will be the dawning of the Age of Aquarius


I have wonderful memories associated with that song!


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## Dekster (Apr 8, 2022)

If TyroneKwa never applied himself, got booted out of school, joined a gang, did the crimes, etc etc etc, the it is certainly TyroneKwa's fault.  However, when it comes to blacks as a group, it is naive to think that racism/Jim Crow didn't contribute to blacks still being disproportionately poor.  I am currently the owner of income-producing inherited properties that have been in my family for generations with those lovely Jim Crow restrictions in the deeds.


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## Resnic (Apr 8, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The reason for poverty among blacks who remain poor (most are working class or above) is the same reason that whites in poverty remain poor. It is due to having babies while still in one’s teens, without a husband, and often without completing high school as a result.
> 
> Anyone can break free of poverty by doing the following, at a minimum:
> 
> ...



Bill Cosby (rapings aside) was great person. He was black and from the ghetto. But he got an education and applied himself and did very well for himself. Oprah was the same way.

We also have millions of black doctors, lawyers, police chiefs, congressman, supreme court judge, even had a black president twice.

So no, racism doesn't have shit to do with poverty. It's each individuals capacity to exceed in life and their own level of ambition.

Besides, what about the millions of poor, broke and dumb white people in America? What happened to their white privilege?

If America is racist then why have throughout human history have throughout the world have black countries traditionally always been 2nd or 3rd world countries? When whites, Asians, Spaniards, etc all were exploring the world, setting up trade routes, building civilized nations the blacks were still not progressing at all. 95% of all famous and well to do blacks even now became that way in white founded countries.


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## DGS49 (Apr 8, 2022)

Ben Shapiro has prominently published the formula for "success" in America:

Stay in School (at least a HS diploma),
Get a job - they are ubiquitous, and
Don't have kids outside marriage.
Parenthetically on the third point, one should take the middle-class approach and, in addition to being married, make sure you have the means to support, nurture, and educate a child before popping one out.

None of the three points has anything to do with "race" (which, I'm told, does not exist unless you want it to).  But as for "white privilege" one might note that the BLS has calculated that a "white" child in a single parent household is FOUR TIMES MORE LIKELY to be living in poverty than a Black child in a two-parent home.  The numbers are approximately, 20% and 5%.


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## Dogmaphobe (Apr 8, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> That’s because they don’t want a color-blind society. They want to break everyone down into identity groups, which Then FOCUSES on the identity of someone more than any other attributes. The first attribute for the SCOTUS nominee was that she be black and a woman (although how they were able to pick a woman is beyond me, since none of them is a biologist), and then whittle the selection down once thst racial and gender restriction was met.


Yes, this is certainly true, and because of this, they ARE NOT liberals.

Orienting one's political beliefs around this primitive tribal level is the ANTITHESIS of liberalism.


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## midcan5 (Apr 8, 2022)

Sure thing and Trump is a really good guy and the republicans all walked out of the SCOTUS confirmation to go to the bathroom and QAnon lady is smart person, - egad, you people are sad.

'Faces of poverty: What racial, social groups are more likely to experience it?'









						Faces of poverty: What racial, social groups are more likely to experience it?
					

24/7 Wall Street reviewed 2017 data from the U.S. Census Bureau to identify 11 distinct groups of Americans who are more likely to live in poverty.



					www.usatoday.com
				





For those who think read Caste for a bit of reality. 

'It's More Than Racism: Isabel Wilkerson Explains America's 'Caste' System'


Old post: 




__





						Is There A ‘Truth’ Exemption From ‘Racism’?
					

Or is any discussion of the Democrat’s selected and protected minority racism if it does not put same in a favorable light?    Last week, this lie in the LATimes:  “I met Elder at his studio in 2019, while reporting my biography of Trump’s senior advisor Stephen Miller. Elder told me he believes...



					www.usmessageboard.com


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Apr 8, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I have wonderful memories associated with that song!


I was 15.  'Nuff said.


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## lg325 (Apr 8, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The reason for poverty among blacks who remain poor (most are working class or above) is the same reason that whites in poverty remain poor. It is due to having babies while still in one’s teens, without a husband, and often without completing high school as a result.
> 
> Anyone can break free of poverty by doing the following, at a minimum:
> 
> ...


Those two factors are a part of it but there is more to consider. Like in both black, white, and other groups how your parents raise you, mental health and other things do play into why a person stays in or becomes in poverty.  I have seen middle-class kids end up in poverty because they had parents who didn't care about ''raising their kids''.


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## Lisa558 (Apr 8, 2022)

Dekster said:


> If TyroneKwa never applied himself, got booted out of school, joined a gang, did the crimes, etc etc etc, the it is certainly TyroneKwa's fault.  However, when it comes to blacks as a group, it is naive to think that racism/Jim Crow didn't contribute to blacks still being disproportionately poor.  I am currently the owner of income-producing inherited properties that have been in my family for generations with those lovely Jim Crow restrictions in the deeds.


That was 50 years and two generations ago.

TODAY, any black person can rise from poverty by not getting pregnant as a teen and getting Some basic post-high school job training, courtesy of the American taxpayer,


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## PinktheFloyd88 (Apr 8, 2022)

You have no understanding of US History or policy if you think it is not racism.

Just a 10 minute read of the Tulsa town bombings and Emmitt Till’a murder teaches you all you need to know.

Another 10 minutes of reading about the interstate highway act by Eisenhower would seal the deal.

Read a book


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## Lisa558 (Apr 8, 2022)

Dekster said:


> If TyroneKwa never applied himself, got booted out of school, joined a gang, did the crimes, etc etc etc, the it is certainly TyroneKwa's fault.  However, when it comes to blacks as a group, it is naive to think that racism/Jim Crow didn't contribute to blacks still being disproportionately poor.  I am currently the owner of income-producing inherited properties that have been in my family for generations with those lovely Jim Crow restrictions in the deeds.


And P.S. So you inherited property. The vast majority of middle class whites did not. My parents grew up impoverished and inherited nothing, yet still were middle class by their late 20s - for making the right decisions.

There is a big misconception that whites who are middle class today became so by benefit on inheriting family wealth. Most inherited nothing.


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## Dogmaphobe (Apr 8, 2022)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> I was 15.  'Nuff said.


Same here.


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## Lisa558 (Apr 8, 2022)

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> You have no understanding of US History or policy if you think it is not racism.
> 
> Just a 10 minute read of the Tulsa town bombings and Emmitt Till’a murder teaches you all you need to know.
> 
> ...


All 50+ years and two generations ago. Stop living in the past and just do the two simple things I mentioned in the OP, and poverty would drop by 97%.

There is no excuse to remain poor in this country - not with Americans paying for vocational and/or community college degrees. Going back in history as to how it USED to be bad is hurting you, not helping you.


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## Lisa558 (Apr 8, 2022)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Same here.


We are all from the same era. Late 60s and early 70s was a great time to be a kid in America!


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## Dogmaphobe (Apr 8, 2022)

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> You have no understanding of US History or policy if you think it is not racism.
> 
> Just a 10 minute read of the Tulsa town bombings and Emmitt Till’a murder teaches you all you need to know.
> 
> ...


Those things happened decades before you were born, child.

You have lived your entire life in a system where affirmative action exists to give blacks an advantage IF THEY ACTUALLY WANT ONE. 

The problem lies in the fact that far too few do take advantage of A.A. because of their own dysfunctional attitudes.


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## Dadoalex (Apr 8, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The reason for poverty among blacks who remain poor (most are working class or above) is the same reason that whites in poverty remain poor. It is due to having babies while still in one’s teens, without a husband, and often without completing high school as a result.
> 
> Anyone can break free of poverty by doing the following, at a minimum:
> 
> ...


This is a classic case of "Blaming the Victim."

We're not going to discuss how a Black person of equal qualifications is less likely to be hired for good opportunities...
Nor will we discuss how people with "Black sounding names" don't even get interviews despite their qualifications...
No...
We're going to blame them for having babies.

Educate yourself and your bigotry will evaporate and you'll just be a hateful racist.


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## gipper (Apr 8, 2022)

A HS diploma from many of our poor government school districts isn’t worth the paper it’s written on. This is true for whites and blacks. Many graduate yet are essentially illiterate. Your not likely to get a good job capable of supporting a family, when you’re illiterate.


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## Lisa558 (Apr 8, 2022)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Those things happened decades before you were born, child.
> 
> You have lived your entire life in a system where affirmative action exists to give blacks an advantage IF THEY ACTUALLY WANT ONE.
> 
> The problem lies in the fact that far too few do take advantage of A.A. because of their own dysfunctional attitudes.


Excellent point. Any black person under 60 today has had advantages ver whites, particularly with affirmative action. He or she has been admitted to programs, and given opportunities, solely because of skin color that whites with better qualifications were rejected from. 

Yet the response is, “well, Emitt Till was murdered in the 1950s!“ Yes, that was horrible what they did to that poor boy, but I could say “my father’s grandmother and aunt and uncle and cousins were killed in the 1940s!” THAT was a direct impact to my Dad. Yet, he still rose from poverty to the middle class suburbs by the time he was 30 - ans that was without benefit of AA. (In fact, it was DESPITE the rampant antisemitism in college admissions in the 50s.)

These liberals need to stop blaming racism that occurred generations ago and take advantage of the favorable treatment afforded them for the last 40 years. Again:

1) No babies pre-marriage 
2) High school grad at least, but better some post high school training


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## Dogmaphobe (Apr 8, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> And P.S. So you inherited property. The vast majority of middle class whites did not. My parents grew up impoverished and inherited nothing, yet still were middle class by their late 20s - for making the right decisions.
> 
> There is a big misconception that whites who are middle class today became so by benefit on inheriting family wealth. Most inherited nothing.


When I was a baby, My family lived in a three room cabin in the woods.  My father worked for a lumber company and the "town", if you could call it that consisted of the mill and perhaps half a dozen cabins. 

 My father grew up dirt poor, but served his country in WW2, and attended college on the G.I. bill.  He received two degrees before being hired by the company and over the next twenty years quietly worked his way up the company until we he could buy a house, and then after that, a better one. Everything my family had was the result of my Father's hard work. Everything.  

 Racists have co-opted the word privilege and divorced it from its true meaning because of their racist agenda. Privilege has nothing to do with skin color, but everything to do with wealth, power and prestige.  Good grief, are there any more privileged spoiled brats in this country than Willow and Jaden Smith?  


People just accept a bunch of crap and repeat it like gospel without ever thinking.


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## Lisa558 (Apr 8, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> This is a classic case of "Blaming the Victim."
> 
> We're not going to discuss how a Black person of equal qualifications is less likely to be hired for good opportunities...
> Nor will we discuss how people with "Black sounding names" don't even get interviews despite their qualifications...
> ...


Perfect example here. ^^^ Unless whites submit to the false notion that racism explains why some blacks remain poor and ignore the fact that the high OOW birthrate is directly correlated with poverty, that person is a racist.

Educate yourself and figure out that the two simple things needed to move out of poverty have nothing to do with racism, but to the “victim’s” own prudent choices, or lack of them.


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## BrokeLoser (Apr 8, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> This is a classic case of "Blaming the Victim."


What modern day black is a ‘victim’? We elect them to President Of The United States Of America


Dadoalex said:


> We're not going to discuss how a Black person of equal qualifications is less likely to be hired for good opportunities...


Most lack communication / people skills…they struggle to articulate the english language.


Dadoalex said:


> Nor will we discuss how people with "Black sounding names" don't even get interviews despite their qualifications...


”Black sounding“ African tribe names belong in Africa.


Dadoalex said:


> No...
> We're going to blame them for having babies.


Babies they can’t raise and afford themselves?


Dadoalex said:


> Educate yourself and your bigotry will evaporate and you'll just be a hateful racist.


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## Dogmaphobe (Apr 8, 2022)

Privileged







underprivileged








any questions?


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## Lisa558 (Apr 8, 2022)

Dogmaphobe said:


> When I was a baby, My family lived in a three room cabin in the woods.  My father worked for a lumber company and the "town", if you could call it that consisted of the mill and perhaps half a dozen cabins.
> 
> My father grew up dirt poor, but served his country in WW2, and attended college on the G.I. bill.  He received two degrees before being hired by the company and over the next twenty years quietly worked his way up the company until we he could buy a house, and then after that, a better one. Everything my family had was the result of my Father's hard work. Everything.
> 
> ...


We have similar family history from a financial perspective - although yours was rural and mine was inner-city.

Everything my family now has is also due to my father‘s wise and responsible choices. My father grew up in a three-room apartment with the bathroom shared with another tenant. (They were so poor that they couldn’t even afford to have the ice delivered because it cost an extra penny.) Yet, my father managed to win a tuition-free college education, and from there, go to night school for his grad degree while he worked full-time. From a tenement apartment at 20 to a SFH in the suburbs at 30.

It is way past to stop blaming racism for poverty, and the fact that the liberals who continue to do so have to go back generations for examples of it proves it. Why are liberals - OK, leftists - so unwilling to acknowledge that by making two very basic, and simple, life choices, one will move out of poverty?


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## PinktheFloyd88 (Apr 8, 2022)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Those things happened decades before you were born, child.



You are making my point for me.


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## Dogmaphobe (Apr 8, 2022)

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> You are making my point for me.


You make no points, child.

You simply say the things that are necessary for you to avoid being called names by your peers.


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## Lisa558 (Apr 8, 2022)

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> You are making my point for me.


The point being that the examples of racism, horrible as it was, was generations ago. In today’s climate, and even going back 40 years in some areas, blacks are prioritized over whites.

It’s past time for leftists to stop blaming racism for why some blacks remain poor. It is the same reason some whites remain poor: they have babies they can’t afford when they’re still teens and acquire no career or job training.


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## BluesLegend (Apr 8, 2022)

The reason is Dems ABUSE the poor in various money schemes to line their own pockets. Follow the money people, Dems skim and divert a lot of the tax money they claim is for the poor into their own pockets and to buy blocks of votes from their pals in the public employee unions.


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## bripat9643 (Apr 8, 2022)

Dekster said:


> If TyroneKwa never applied himself, got booted out of school, joined a gang, did the crimes, etc etc etc, the it is certainly TyroneKwa's fault.  However, when it comes to blacks as a group, it is naive to think that racism/Jim Crow didn't contribute to blacks still being disproportionately poor.  I am currently the owner of income-producing inherited properties that have been in my family for generations with those lovely Jim Crow restrictions in the deeds.


Why is that stupid?  Did antisemitism contribute to Jews being disproportionately poor?  Is racism the reason that asians are disproportionately poor?   Er  .  .  .  .  .  . no.  They aren't disproportionately poor

What Jim Crow restrictions?


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## Darkwind (Apr 8, 2022)

Dogmaphobe said:


> When I was a baby, My family lived in a three room cabin in the woods.  My father worked for a lumber company and the "town", if you could call it that consisted of the mill and perhaps half a dozen cabins.
> 
> My father grew up dirt poor, but served his country in WW2, and attended college on the G.I. bill.  He received two degrees before being hired by the company and over the next twenty years quietly worked his way up the company until we he could buy a house, and then after that, a better one. Everything my family had was the result of my Father's hard work. Everything.
> 
> ...


This article was written by a 26 yr old college student by the name of Alyssa Ahlgren, who's in grad school for her MBA.   What a GREAT perspecitve...

My Generation Is Blind to the Prosperity Around Us!

I'm sitting in a small coffee shop near Nokomis (Florida) trying to think of what to write about. I scroll through my newsfeed on my phone looking at the latest headlines of presidential candidates calling for policies to "fix" the so-called injustices of capitalism. I put my phone down and continue to look around.

I see people talking freely, working on their MacBook's, ordering food they get in an instant, seeing cars go by outside, and it dawned on me. We live in the most privileged time in the most prosperous nation and we've become completely blind to it.

Vehicles, food, technology, freedom to associate with whom we choose.These things are so ingrained in our American way of life we don't give them a second thought.
We are so well off here in the United States that our poverty line begins 31 times above the global average. Thirty One Times!!!

Virtually no one in the United States is considered poor by global standards. Yet, in a time where we can order a product off Amazon with one click and have it at our doorstep the next day, we are unappreciative, unsatisfied, and ungrateful. ??

Our unappreciation is evident as the popularity of socialist policies among my generation continues to grow. Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez recently said to Newsweek talking about the millennial generation, "An entire generation, which is now becoming one of the largest electorates in America, came of age and never saw American prosperity."

Never saw American prosperity! Let that sink in.

When I first read that statement, I thought to myself, that was quite literally the most entitled and factually illiterate thing I've ever heard in my 26 years on this earth. Many young people agree with her, which is entirely misguided.
My generation is being indoctrinated by a mainstream narrative to actually believe we have never seen prosperity. I know this first hand, I went to college, let's just say I didn't have the popular opinion, but I digress.

Why then, with all of the overwhelming evidence around us, evidence that I can even see sitting at a coffee shop, do we not view this as prosperity? We have people who are dying to get into our country.

People around the world destitute and truly impoverished. Yet, we have a young generation convinced they've never seen prosperity, and as a result, we elect some politicians who are dead set on taking steps towards abolishing capitalism.

Why? The answer is this,?? my generation has only seen prosperity. We have no contrast. We didn't live in the great depression, or live through two world wars, the Korean War, The Vietnam War or we didn't see the rise and fall of socialism and communism.

We don't know what it's like to live without the internet, without cars, without smartphones. We don't have a lack of prosperity problem. 

*We have an entitlement problem, an ungratefulness problem, and it's spreading like a plague*."


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## bodecea (Apr 8, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Thank you. And it’s not rocket science, either. It’s just those two simple things: no babies before marriage, and get some basic job training (which is provided tuition free by taxpayers).


You really took that post seriously, eh?


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## bripat9643 (Apr 8, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> This is a classic case of "Blaming the Victim."
> 
> We're not going to discuss how a Black person of equal qualifications is less likely to be hired for good opportunities...
> Nor will we discuss how people with "Black sounding names" don't even get interviews despite their qualifications...
> ...


A black person of  equal qualifications is more likely to get hired, moron.  You're claim about people with "black sounding names" is bullshit.  An educated person understands that progs are all brainwashed.  The Democrat party couldn't continue with constantly claiming racism.


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## bodecea (Apr 8, 2022)

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> You have no understanding of US History or policy if you think it is not racism.
> 
> Just a 10 minute read of the Tulsa town bombings and Emmitt Till’a murder teaches you all you need to know.
> 
> ...


They are too busy banning them.


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## Ralph Norton (Apr 8, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> This is a classic case of "Blaming the Victim."
> 
> We're not going to discuss how a Black person of equal qualifications is less likely to be hired for good opportunities...
> Nor will we discuss how people with "Black sounding names" don't even get interviews despite their qualifications...
> ...


"We're going to blame them for having babies."
Yes, we are as well as dropping of school and having rap sheets 10 pages long.
Your points about hiring practices and "black sounding names" are, unfortunately, valid in some cases.


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## Hang on Sloopy (Apr 8, 2022)

Hang on Sloopy said:


> It is really that simple isn't it?
> 
> My Lisa you really must have these stumps scratching their heads......lolol
> 
> Thank you for your contribz


Poor Bodecea. Jealous because these girls are smart and you are a ninny


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## bripat9643 (Apr 8, 2022)

bodecea said:


> You really took that post seriously, eh?


Most people take facts seriously.


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## bripat9643 (Apr 8, 2022)

bodecea said:


> They are too busy banning them.


Progs are the ones who ban books, moron.


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## Stormy Daniels (Apr 8, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The reason for poverty among blacks who remain poor (most are working class or above)



And the proportion of "poor" people who are black is entirely in line with black people in the general population.  I'd offer a link, but all the links disprove this statement so I won't bother.



Lisa558 said:


> In fact, the only two poor people I interact with on a consistent basis are white women both had babies (one at 15 and one at 17) and did not complete high school.



Perhaps you interact with more poor people than you realize.
Perhaps your idea of poverty is faulty.
Perhaps you don't interact with many black people.
Perhaps your personal anecdotes are completely inadequate evidence.


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## Dekster (Apr 8, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> That was 50 years and two generations ago.
> 
> TODAY, any black person can rise from poverty by not getting pregnant as a teen and getting Some basic post-high school job training, courtesy of the American taxpayer,



And yet that would be two generations plus however many generations before of income production from property the blacks families couldn't have that we did.


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## Lisa558 (Apr 8, 2022)

Stormy Daniels said:


> And the proportion of "poor" people who are black is entirely in line with black people in the general population.  I'd offer a link, but all the links disprove this statement so I won't bother.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It’s doesn’t have to be anecdotes. Studies show a direct correlation between OOW births, and dropping and out school, and poverty - and this is within the control of the “victims” you defend. But because it doesn’t fall into your “racism can be blamed for everything,” you fight what is an obvious reality.

Stay in stay in school, don’t have babies you can’t afford when you’re in high school, and take advantage of free educational programs offered to the poor - and you will be out of poverty.


----------



## WTH_Progs? (Apr 8, 2022)

Speaking as a black Democrat, I like it when Democrats make excuses for us and I appreciate they put us into a racial class, because segregation distinctions and excuses are bitchn', and it's nice to know we receive a crutch, because less is expected of us.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 8, 2022)

Dekster said:


> And yet that would be two generations plus however many generations before of income production from property the blacks families couldn't have that we did.


Another false way to credit why whitey is doing better - all those imaginary generations of income production. There are TENS OF MILLIONS of Americans who are only 2nd generation - their parents having arrived here penniless - who achieved middle class without generations before them. They achieved it through making the right decisions.

Excuses, excuses, excuses.


----------



## Meathead (Apr 8, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The reason for poverty among blacks who remain poor (most are working class or above) is the same reason that whites in poverty remain poor. It is due to having babies while still in one’s teens, without a husband, and often without completing high school as a result.
> 
> Anyone can break free of poverty by doing the following, at a minimum:
> 
> ...


Yeah, you see that would be "acting white", so you see the problem is racism after all.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 8, 2022)

bripat9643 said:


> A black person of  equal qualifications is more likely to get hired, moron.  You're claim about people with "black sounding names" is bullshit.  An educated person understands that progs are all brainwashed.  The Democrat party couldn't continue with constantly claiming racism.


Absolutely. And beyond that, a black person of LESSEr qualifications is more likely to get into a prestigious college or grad program than a white person with SUPERIOR qualifications. It’s called racism, otherwise known as Affirmative Action.


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 8, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Perfect example here. ^^^ Unless whites submit to the false notion that racism explains why some blacks remain poor and ignore the fact that the high OOW birthrate is directly correlated with poverty, that person is a racist.
> 
> Educate yourself and figure out that the two simple things needed to move out of poverty have nothing to do with racism, but to the “victim’s” own prudent choices, or lack of them.


RACISM
Explains why PoC have fewer opportunities to succeed, RACIST.
BUT
I do see your point...
If you can convince PoC to stop procreating than your supreme White position ois preserved.
RACIST.


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 8, 2022)

BrokeLoser said:


> What modern day black is a ‘victim’? We elect them to President Of The United States Of America


What you mean "WE" racist?

If Obama had been white he's have carried 60% against McCain.
The racism displayed by people who call themselves "conservative" was blatant and constant.

Allow me to refresh for you, RACIST













There's thousands more and not by some unknowns on the internet.
No these were spread by prominent GOP leaders.

So, RACIST is as RACIST does, RACIST.


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 8, 2022)

Ralph Norton said:


> "We're going to blame them for having babies."
> Yes, we are as well as dropping of school and having rap sheets 10 pages long.
> Your points about hiring practices and "black sounding names" are, unfortunately, valid in some cases.


Your first two don't apply to Black people.
So, in 2019 the birth rate for Black women between 15 and 19 was 26 per 1000.
So what about the other 974?
In 2018 there were 4,619.5 per 100k juvenile arrests among Black people.
What about the other 95k?

Your truisms are not true but they are racist


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 8, 2022)

bripat9643 said:


> A black person of  equal qualifications is more likely to get hired, moron.  You're claim about people with "black sounding names" is bullshit.  An educated person understands that progs are all brainwashed.  The Democrat party couldn't continue with constantly claiming racism.


You are an ignorant liar.

Study after study has shown a person with a "Black" name will be refused even an interview but the same person, with a different "white" name... 

Educate yourself.  The more you learn, the less racist you will be.
But you'll still be a liar, LAIR.




__





						studies showing people with black sounding names do not get hired - Google Search
					





					www.google.com


----------



## bripat9643 (Apr 8, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> RACISM
> Explains why PoC have fewer opportunities to succeed, RACIST.


Where has it been established that Poc have fewer opportunities to succeed?  If anything, the have more opportunities.  There are all kinds of scholarship designated specifically for PoC.  There are also AA quotas at many universities, government jobs and private corporations.


Dadoalex said:


> BUT
> I do see your point...
> If you can convince PoC to stop procreating than your supreme White position ois preserved.
> RACIST.


So advising them not to get pregnant before they get married is a racist plot?


----------



## Lesh (Apr 8, 2022)

Lisa has quite the racist hard on for black folks huh?

It's all she ever posts about


----------



## Stormy Daniels (Apr 8, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Stay in stay in school, don’t have babies you can’t afford when you’re in high school



So, abortion...


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 8, 2022)

Stormy Daniels said:


> So, abortion...


So, birth control. It works 99% of the time. Double up, and it‘s 99.9%.


----------



## BrokeLoser (Apr 8, 2022)

Stormy Daniels said:


> So, abortion...


Are you implying that ghetto whores can’t not have children with having abortions? Gee, that’s not racist at all.


----------



## 1stNickD (Apr 8, 2022)

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> You have no understanding of US History or policy if you think it is not racism.
> 
> Just a 10 minute read of the Tulsa town bombings and Emmitt Till’a murder teaches you all you need to know.
> 
> ...


Always  going back decades or centuries. Always leaving out the strides made to eliminate those things from happening again.  I look at the interstate today and see very many folks of African descent driving some pretty nice cars and making some very good use of the interstates in our cities. Telling people they are victims of oppression and nothing has ever changed only teaches  people that they cannot be successful and that they should hate anyone who does not look like them


----------



## 1stNickD (Apr 8, 2022)

Dekster said:


> And yet that would be two generations plus however many generations before of income production from property the blacks families couldn't have that we did.


Ah, you have drunk from the cooler of Kool aide. Do you realize how many millions of white folks never inherited a penny or even had to take on debt to bury their parents?  I am happy you think you have it good enough to call yourself privileged, good for you.  But kiss my ass if you are going to use the word "we".  There are more white folks in poverty than there are black folks, so its not just about the color of a persons skin. I won't deny that there are some really mean jerks in our society, they belong to groups like KKK and BLM. Both are nothing but sewage in my book, as they make their fame from pure 100% race hate.


----------



## monkrules (Apr 9, 2022)

I've known loads of people in the southwest who came to america with almost nothing. In many cases they had little education, and many of them spoke broken English, at best.

I said they came with *almost* nothing, because they DID bring some invaluable things with them. These included an incredible willingness to work as hard as necessary to make a living. I never heard a single excuse out of any of these folks for any failures they suffered. I saw some of these guys work so hard that I worried they would collapse.

A surprising number built successful small businesses which they started from scratch. Often those tiny " businesses" we're started because these folks could not get decent work (due to their lack of education and language skills). They seemed unstoppable. They just would not fucking quit.

I've known loads of blacks in my life, too. But not once did I witness the drive or work ethic that is found in those immigrants from Mexico and South america. 

But, what blacks lack in work ethic, self-motivation and desire, they more than make up for, in never-ending excuses and an unbelievable willingness to blame other people and circumstances for their own failures. It's never their fault. It's always whitey, privilege, wacism, on and on and on.....

Blacks can assimilate and be successful, too. But no one can do it for them. And the never-ending excuses seem to be acting as an anchor around their necks.


----------



## Dekster (Apr 9, 2022)

1stNickD said:


> Ah, you have drunk from the cooler of Kool aide. Do you realize how many millions of white folks never inherited a penny or even had to take on debt to bury their parents?  I am happy you think you have it good enough to call yourself privileged, good for you.  But kiss my ass if you are going to use the word "we".  There are more white folks in poverty than there are black folks, so its not just about the color of a persons skin. I won't deny that there are some really mean jerks in our society, they belong to groups like KKK and BLM. Both are nothing but sewage in my book, as they make their fame from pure 100% race hate.



Unless you are a member of my family, then you are not part of the "we" privileged one who had to walk up hill both ways to school, in the snow, while milking a cow.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 9, 2022)

1stNickD said:


> Always  going back decades or centuries. Always leaving out the strides made to eliminate those things from happening again.  I look at the interstate today and see very many folks of African descent driving some pretty nice cars and making some very good use of the interstates in our cities. Telling people they are victims of oppression and nothing has ever changed only teaches  people that they cannot be successful and that they should hate anyone who does not look like them


Of course that’s the case! I live in an affluent area, and I see black people at expensive restaurants, at expensive stores, driving expensive cars, and of course living in expensive houses.

It‘s all a big lie. Most blacks are middle class. (There is a subset of blacks that are stuck in poverty, but that’s due to their own choices.) This constant cry of how blacks are oppressed victims is doing nothing other than to build resentment and hostility toward whites - and that is by intention. Any white person who objects to it is called a racist.

Example: our previous governor (VA), an extreme leftist, proposed that black teachers in the state get paid more than white teachers, a completely racist proposal. He further stated that any teacher - any person in fact - who objects to the racist pay policy is himself a racist.


----------



## BrokeLoser (Apr 9, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> What you mean "WE" racist?
> 
> If Obama had been white he's have carried 60% against McCain.
> The racism displayed by people who call themselves "conservative" was blatant and constant.
> ...


Ofcourse there are racists….why wouldn’t there be? Have you seen the statistics related to the behavioral traits of various ethnic groups?
The Kenyan elections were the most racist in American history….95% of voting blacks voted on skin color.


----------



## 1stNickD (Apr 9, 2022)

Dekster said:


> Unless you are a member of my family, then you are not part of the "we" privileged one who had to walk up hill both ways to school, in the snow, while milking a cow.


My reply obviously went over your head. And I'll bet 100 bucks you wouldn't even know how to milk a cow. Or tell the  difference between a cow and a bull.


----------



## Stormy Daniels (Apr 10, 2022)

Dekster said:


> Unless you are a member of my family, then you are not part of the "we" privileged one who had to walk up hill both ways to school, in the snow, while milking a cow.



Dude, you're not a cow.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 10, 2022)

monkrules said:


> I've known loads of people in the southwest who came to america with almost nothing. In many cases they had little education, and many of them spoke broken English, at best.
> 
> I said they came with *almost* nothing, because they DID bring some invaluable things with them. These included an incredible willingness to work as hard as necessary to make a living. I never heard a single excuse out of any of these folks for any failures they suffered. I saw some of these guys work so hard that I worried they would collapse.
> 
> ...



It's as I often tell leftists:  Next time you go to the library, ask the librarian where they keep the books written by successful excuse makers.  There is no such thing because all excuse makers are  failures.  

It's easy to be a failure and very hard to be successful.  But if you keep feeding this BS to the blacks that they have plenty of excuses for their plight, they're going to accept it.  

The message from Republicans is anybody can be successful in America, but you have to put a lot of effort into it; not just making money, but what you do with that money after you make it.  I remember my father telling me as a child "Money is easy to make.  An idiot can make money.  But money is hard to keep."  

Going back to the OP, the CDC estimates that it costs (on average) $233,000 to raise a middle-class child from birth until the age of 18.  If you want the standard two child family, you better plan on making a half-million dollars to raise those kids in the next 20 years or so.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 10, 2022)

Stormy Daniels said:


> So, abortion...



Right.  Because that's the only known way not to have children.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 10, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> You are an ignorant liar.
> 
> Study after study has shown a person with a "Black" name will be refused even an interview but the same person, with a different "white" name...
> 
> ...



And now (as the late Paul Harvey used to say) the rest of the story.  









						What's Wrong With A Study That Used 'Black Names' On Fake Resumes
					

As we see a rise in attempts to erase racial discrimination, it's important to look critically behind the curtain at the proof that claims it exists.




					thefederalist.com


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 10, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> RACISM
> Explains why PoC have fewer opportunities to succeed, RACIST.
> BUT
> I do see your point...
> ...



The white population in the US as well as Europe is shrinking due to replacement rate.  Whites have less children than minorities mostly due to the expense of raising a child today.  I'm one of those guilty parties.  I never had any children for that reason.  

If you see somebody more financially successful than you are, the best thing you can do is what they did.  We all would like everything we want, but sometimes you have to give up something if something else is more important to you.  

For many middle-class white families, financial security is more important than large families.  My sister makes close to six figures a year, very religious, but only had two children.  She and her ex-husband sent them to private schools, college, and she's going to be paying off college loans until she retires.  She lives in a very nice house in a very nice suburban community, but she wouldn't be if she had three or four kids.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 10, 2022)

Dekster said:


> And yet that would be two generations plus however many generations before of income production from property the blacks families couldn't have that we did.



We can't even trace how far back it was when our ancestors got here.  If we get any inheritance, we will be the first generation to do so.  Same goes with all of my white friends.


----------



## Dekster (Apr 10, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> We can't even trace how far back it was when our ancestors got here.  If we get any inheritance, we will be the first generation to do so.  Same goes with all of my white friends.



Your granny should have worked harder and scrimped and saved more.


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Apr 10, 2022)

Dekster said:


> If TyroneKwa never applied himself, got booted out of school, joined a gang, did the crimes, etc etc etc, the it is certainly TyroneKwa's fault.  However, when it comes to blacks as a group, it is naive to think that racism/Jim Crow didn't contribute to blacks still being disproportionately poor.  I am currently the owner of income-producing inherited properties that have been in my family for generations with those lovely Jim Crow restrictions in the deeds.


Why doesn’t your white guilt make you give those properties away?


----------



## Dekster (Apr 10, 2022)

Missouri_Mike said:


> Why doesn’t your white guilt make you give those properties away?



Maybe I will.  You never know with me.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 10, 2022)

Dekster said:


> Your granny should have worked harder and scrimped and saved more.



Back then people were just too happy to eat.  My father could tell you stories that would make you cry.  He was raised in a house up north here that had no indoor plumbing or electricity. It was about the size of a three car garage.  Yet he and his five siblings never seen the inside of a jail or prison.  His sisters married good men and raised a family.  My father and his brothers all joined the military.  My father is a Korean war veteran.  Today he jokes that the reason he joined the Marines was to see what it was like to get three square meals a day, a joke he created from truth.  When they got out, half of them joined the construction trades.  Two of them ran their own business.  

Some people today have no idea what real poverty is, nor do they have an idea how easy it is to escape it.  Do whatever you feel like doing, and if you F-up, don't worry, government will be there to fill in the gaps.  In fact since you are so-called poor, they will get you a house in the suburbs, feed you, provide medical care for you and your family, and oh, BTW, here is a smart phone for you to use free of charge.  Pathetic.


----------



## Dekster (Apr 10, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Back then people were just too happy to eat.  My father could tell you stories that would make you cry.  He was raised in a house up north here that had no indoor plumbing or electricity. It was about the size of a three car garage.  Yet he and his five siblings never seen the inside of a jail or prison.  His sisters married good men and raised a family.  My father and his brothers all joined the military.  My father is a Korean war veteran.  Today he jokes that the reason he joined the Marines was to see what it was like to get three square meals a day, a joke he created from truth.  When they got out, half of them joined the construction trades.  Two of them ran their own business.
> 
> Some people today have no idea what real poverty is, nor do they have an idea how easy it is to escape it.  Do whatever you feel like doing, and if you F-up, don't worry, government will be there to fill in the gaps.  In fact since you are so-called poor, they will get you a house in the suburbs, feed you, provide medical care for you and your family, and oh, BTW, here is a smart phone for you to use free of charge.  Pathetic.



My grandmother literally scrubbed floors and toilets at a resort, putting all her money into real estate in the area.  They made do on my grandfather's pay and all hers went into investments.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 10, 2022)

Dekster said:


> My grandmother literally scrubbed floors and toilets at a resort, putting all her money into real estate in the area.  They made do on my grandfather's pay and all hers went into investments.


My grandparents were also poor, dirt-poor, with no educations, and immigrated here without speaking English. They worked hard and were happy to have a roof over their families’ heads and some food in their stomachs. Each of their children graduated from college.

From abject poverty to the middle class in ONE generation. This idea that whites have had generations of wealth-building is just an excuse for the subset of blacks who made the wrong decisions, and their white enablers are peddling, for their failure to move out of poverty.

And how’s THIS for a question: if racism explains why SOME blacks remain poor, how then are the majority of blacks working to middle class? How are they buying homes, shopping at nice stores, driving expensive new cars?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 10, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> My grandparents were also poor, dirt-poor, with no educations, and immigrated here without speaking English. They worked hard and were happy to have a roof over their families’ heads and some food in their stomachs. Each of their children graduated from college.
> 
> From abject poverty to the middle class in ONE generation. This idea that whites have had generations of wealth-building is just an excuse for the subset of blacks who made the wrong decisions, and their white enablers are peddling, for their failure to move out of poverty.
> 
> And how’s THIS for a question: if racism explains why SOME blacks remain poor, how then are the majority of blacks working to middle class? How are they buying homes, shopping at nice stores, driving expensive new cars?



You should see the blacks over here in the lottery line.  I swear they blow around $100.00 each.  Every time I get behind one, I think to myself "this should take about ten minutes for her to get done."  

Very few whites benefited from generational income.  There was no income to leave behind.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 10, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You should see the blacks over here in the lottery line.  I swear they blow around $100.00 each.  Every time I get behind one, I think to myself "this should take about ten minutes for her to get done."
> 
> Very few whites benefited from generational income.  There was no income to leave behind.


Yup. Ever read The Millionaire Next Door? Most were raised very modestly, and 93% received no inheritance from their parents.

And so true what you say about the lottery. The line is almost always poor blacks who can least afford it, and it takes forever. I wish they had a separate “lottery ticket” line.


----------



## Leo123 (Apr 10, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The reason for poverty among blacks who remain poor (most are working class or above) is the same reason that whites in poverty remain poor. It is due to having babies while still in one’s teens, without a husband, and often without completing high school as a result.
> 
> Anyone can break free of poverty by doing the following, at a minimum:
> 
> ...


Democrats need to keep people poor with their hands out.   They do this by constructing the false narrative of oppression and promising to deliver them from their own self-inflicted poverty.   Of course, that never happens.  The only thing that happens is government enriches itself.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 10, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yup. Ever read The Millionaire Next Door? Most were raised very modestly, and 93% received no inheritance from their parents.
> 
> And so true what you say about the lottery. The line is almost always poor blacks who can least afford it, and it takes forever. I wish they had a separate “lottery ticket” line.



I wish they had a separate line for everything.  About 80% of the time I get behind a black, they always have some sort of problem.  Either they thought the item was on sale and it wasn't, they forgot something and have to run back into the store to pick it up, the cashier tells them it's buy one get one free and they didn't read the sign.  Always something.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 10, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> Democrats need to keep people poor with their hands out.   They do this by constructing the false narrative of oppression and promising to deliver them from their own self-inflicted poverty.   Of course, that never happens.  The only thing that happens is government enriches itself.



Exactly! That’s why we have some leftists come at me with horrific lies and accusations for suggesting that it is not racism that keeps blacks poor (of those who remain poor) but by making poor choices. They are desperate to keep them poor, and that is best done by convincing them it is outside forces - racism - responsible for their problems, rather than reveal that they have it within their own control to move from poverty.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 10, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I wish they had a separate line for everything.  About 80% of the time I get behind a black, they always have some sort of problem.  Either they thought the item was on sale and it wasn't, they forgot something and have to run back into the store to pick it up, the cashier tells them it's buy one get one free and they didn't read the sign.  Always something.


Now here’s the interesting thing. You freely discuss some of the less appealing aspects of blacks, from your experience, and yet the nasty mod doesn’t come out you with lies and shrieks of racism.

Could it be because she, like some many leftists, are resentful of the fact that Jews have risen from the worst persecution, and for millennia, and prove that bigotry and prejudice not only keep one in poverty, but doesn’t even stop them from rising from poor, uneducated immigrants to upper-middle class professionals in a single generation?

I’ve noticed this with lots of liberals. We have some posters here who have said awful things about blacks, and yet it slides. Let a Jew say something not nearly as bad, though, and wam! Similarly, we have posters who say awful things about Jews - one yesterday was defending Hitler - and these same liberals defending blacks don’t say a word.

I really think libs are furious at Jews for revealing that racism….prejudice…..bigotry…..is not the root cause of poverty.


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Apr 10, 2022)

Dekster said:


> Maybe I will.  You never know with me.


There’s no chance of that happening.


----------



## monkrules (Apr 10, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It's as I often tell leftists:  Next time you go to the library, ask the librarian where they keep the books written by successful excuse makers.  There is no such thing because all excuse makers are  failures.
> 
> It's easy to be a failure and very hard to be successful.  But if you keep feeding this BS to the blacks that they have plenty of excuses for their plight, they're going to accept it.
> 
> ...


Absolutely right.

Of course, the cock-sucking Biden, wants to send monthly checks to any whore who can drop a baby -- or five -- or eight.

By stealing money from taxpayers, and giving it to losers who insist on dropping babies they cannot afford to feed and clothe, the idiot, Biden, will create a Baby-Dropping industry in this country. 

Some of these losers would get more "free" government money each month than they would ever make working an honest job. Not that most of them would ever seriously consider working to support their own lazy ass.


----------



## Soupnazi630 (Apr 10, 2022)

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> You have no understanding of US History or policy if you think it is not racism.
> 
> Just a 10 minute read of the Tulsa town bombings and Emmitt Till’a murder teaches you all you need to know.
> 
> ...


Isolated incidents like Tulsa are not indicative of an engtire nation.

The interstate act was not racist.

Try thinking after you read


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 11, 2022)

monkrules said:


> Absolutely right.
> 
> Of course, the cock-sucking Biden, wants to send monthly checks to any whore who can drop a baby -- or five -- or eight.
> 
> ...


It’s sort of like what happened with my niece, who is not a particularly motivated person. She went to college because, well, she realized she had to do SOMETHING, and my sister (her mother) paid for it. After she graduated, she lazed around the house for two months, never even logging on to the computer to apply for a job.

Finally, my sister and BIL had it. They told my niece she needs to start looking for a job or she was being kicked out of the house. The very next day, she applied for several jobs, went on one interview later that week, and was employed by the beginning of the next week.

We have to stop enabling able-bodied adults to live off the dole. There is NO excuse for millions of jobs to be unfilled while people capable of working them are getting taxpayer money to turn them down.


----------



## Kondor3 (Apr 11, 2022)

Dogmaphobe said:


> I think an even bigger contributor is cultural.
> 
> Take the contempt for education, the Uncle Tomming of fellow blacks and the built in excuse that all failings are the result of racism and you have quite the recipe for failure.


Yes.

The issue is ALSO cultural, in part.

In some cases, particularly, the LACK of culture, in others, a FAULTY or INFERIOR culture.

Make of that what you will.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 11, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> It’s sort of like what happened with my niece, who is not a particularly motivated person. She went to college because, well, she realized she had to do SOMETHING, and my sister (her mother) paid for it. After she graduated, she lazed around the house for two months, never even logging on to the computer to apply for a job.
> 
> Finally, my sister and BIL had it. They told my niece she needs to start looking for a job or she was being kicked out of the house. The very next day, she applied for several jobs, went on one interview later that week, and was employed by the beginning of the next week.
> 
> We have to stop enabling able-bodied adults to live off the dole. There is NO excuse for millions of jobs to be unfilled while people capable of working them are getting taxpayer money to turn them down.



That's kind of unusual today.  I hear callers to radio shows telling the story how their kids are in their 20's, 30's and 40's that still live with them, and they love it.  They stated they hope their kids never leave.  Micheal Medved, former radio show host on Salem Communications had this topic because he and his wife are the same way,  their kids are in their 30's still living with them which they are happy as all hell. 

So I think your niece probably has a lot of friends doing what she tried to do.  It seems to be the trend.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 11, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> That's kind of unusual today.  I hear callers to radio shows telling the story how their kids are in their 20's, 30's and 40's that still live with them, and they love it.  They stated they hope their kids never leave.  Micheal Medved, former radio show host on Salem Communications had this topic because he and his wife are the same way,  their kids are in their 30's still living with them which they are happy as all hell.
> 
> So I think your niece probably has a lot of friends doing what she tried to do.  It seems to be the trend.


I credit my sister and BIL for refusing to enable her laziness and contribute to her sense of entitlement. But they only did it halfway. The “girl” - a young woman now 28 years old - is still living with them in their waterfront house, in her childhood bedroom, and getting her meals served by Mom. They really should insist she move out - she’s actually earning a decent salary for her age and experience - but my sister says she wouldn‘t be able to live as well.

I’m staying out of it, but who says a young adult should be able to live as well as how her parents were - after 25 years of working? These kids need to be told that they have to work UP to that.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 11, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I credit my sister and BIL for refusing to enable her laziness and contribute to her sense of entitlement. But they only did it halfway. The “girl” - a young woman now 28 years old - is still living with them in their waterfront house, in her childhood bedroom, and getting her meals served by Mom. They really should insist she move out - she’s actually earning a decent salary for her age and experience - but my sister says she wouldn‘t be able to live as well.
> 
> I’m staying out of it, but who says a young adult should be able to live as well as how her parents were - after 25 years of working? These kids need to be told that they have to work UP to that.



I don't want to be critical of your sister because of course I don't know her or enough about her.  The problem I have seen are parents that gave their kids nearly everything they want just for the asking. 

I remember when I was about twelve years old and my father was loading his van for a side job.  Dad was a bricklayer and did side jobs after he got home from his full time job.  I asked him for five dollars.  He said "What makes you think I have five dollars to give you?"  I told him he has a job, so I know he's got five bucks.  He said If that's the way I got my five bucks, that's the way you're going to get yours, now get in the van! 

I worked with my father going to jobs during the evening and on weekends during the working months.  He paid me one dollar an hour which even in the early 70's, wasn't shit.  I came home exhausted from carrying bricks and blocks to the job site, mixing cement, bringing my father various items out of his work bag.  When I took a bath the water instantly turned brown, and as soon as I got out I went to bed. 

I think there are a lot of people that can't become self-sufficient just because they hit a certain age.  It has to be something you grew up with.  When you are raised with no free rides, it has an impact on your life as an adult.


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## Lisa558 (Apr 11, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I don't want to be critical of your sister because of course I don't know her or enough about her.  The problem I have seen are parents that gave their kids nearly everything they want just for the asking.
> 
> I remember when I was about twelve years old and my father was loading his van for a side job.  Dad was a bricklayer and did side jobs after he got home from his full time job.  I asked him for five dollars.  He said "What makes you think I have five dollars to give you?"  I told him he has a job, so I know he's got five bucks.  He said If that's the way I got my five bucks, that's the way you're going to get yours, now get in the van!
> 
> ...


I believe my parents raised me well. From the summer I turned 16, I had to work full-time during school and college. Before that, I babysit after school five days a week. if I wanted something “extra,” I had to pay for it myself.

Once I graduated from college, I was on my own financially. My dad made it clear that he and Mom would pay for only two things: 1) medical costs if I got sick with something not my fault, and 2) a legal defense if I was falsely charged with a crime. Other than that, I had to cover everything: my first mediocre apartment, all food of course, my insurance payments, my car, and any entertainment. (The most “entertainment” I could afford in the early years was a once-a-week trip to the $5.99 buffet at Big Boys.)

These days, affluent parents are paying the $2500 a month rent in a luxury building for their 27-year-olds or letting them stay in their big bedroom in the 5-bedroom house they grew up in. They get taken along on cruises and ski trips, paid for by the parents. I know someone earning $150,000 as a lawyer, and she still lives at home.

We are now a nation of entitled, weak people.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 11, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I believe my parents raised me well. From the summer I turned 16, I had to work full-time during school and college. Before that, I babysit after school five days a week. if I wanted something “extra,” I had to pay for it myself.
> 
> Once I graduated from college, I was on my own financially. My dad made it clear that he and Mom would pay for only two things: 1) medical costs if I got sick with something not my fault, and 2) a legal defense if I was falsely charged with a crime. Other than that, I had to cover everything: my first mediocre apartment, all food of course, my insurance payments, my car, and any entertainment. (The most “entertainment” I could afford in the early years was a once-a-week trip to the $5.99 buffet at Big Boys.)
> 
> ...



Much of that has to do with the times.  When we were younger, there was what was called a _*generation gap*_.  We loved our parents as they loved us, but we had an entirely different social outlook so we didn't get along.  When we became adults, we couldn't wait to fly the nest and be on our own.  It was our number one priority.  You would have the liberty to do what you want, when you wanted to.  You could have friends stay over if they got too drunk, and smoke all the pot you want without having to go outside and sneak it. 

Our generation raised their kids to be more like friends.  Unlike when I was young, the parents were very involved in their kids lives.  If their boy was in little league, they'd attend every game.  If their daughter liked to act, they went to every play. If the parents enjoyed smoking pot, the kids would smoke with them.  It was just a completely different relationship than I and my friends had with their parents.


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## monkrules (Apr 11, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> It’s sort of like what happened with my niece, who is not a particularly motivated person. She went to college because, well, she realized she had to do SOMETHING, and my sister (her mother) paid for it. After she graduated, she lazed around the house for two months, never even logging on to the computer to apply for a job.
> 
> Finally, my sister and BIL had it. They told my niece she needs to start looking for a job or she was being kicked out of the house. The very next day, she applied for several jobs, went on one interview later that week, and was employed by the beginning of the next week.
> 
> We have to stop enabling able-bodied adults to live off the dole. There is NO excuse for millions of jobs to be unfilled while people capable of working them are getting taxpayer money to turn them down.


I have one particularly disgusting experience that was seared into my memory that took place in my early days in college.

I was walking down the hall on my way to another classroom when a black young woman approached, walking in the other direction.

She was shouting: "Where's my FINE-Aide?" "*Where's* my fucking FINE-Aide?..."

I guess her financial aide check had been delayed.

I could never express the disgust I felt on hearing this noisy pig whining. I was exhausted from studying and making good grades. I worked a full-time, 40 hour per week, labor intensive job on the graveyard shift. And I paid for every single class I took, every book needed, and anything else that was required.

You can imagine what was going through mind as I listened to that worthless piece of shit whining and moaning about her free fucking "government" money. Wasted taxpayer dollars, I'd bet.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 11, 2022)

monkrules said:


> I have one particularly disgusting experience that was seared into my memory that took place in my early days in college.
> 
> I was walking down the hall on my way to another classroom when a black young woman approached, walking in the other direction.
> 
> ...



More than likely.  Years ago (early 80's) my employer wanted me to attend electronics school.  Our first day in class, the teacher drew a battery on the chalkboard.  He then drew a line to two resistors and explained that the battery was 12 volts, and the resistors absorbed 6 volts each.  He asked if any of us had any questions, and there was some laughter by us students. 
One black guy raised his hand.  He asked how the teacher came up with 6 volts for each resistor.  He then came up with another stupid question, then another.  

I looked to my classmate next to me and quietly said "I don't think this guy is going to make it."  He whispered back "I know he won't.  This is his third time taking the first semester!" 

When we got on break I learned that my classmate dropped out due to illness and he was taking the class again.  The black guy was on some government program.  I studied for the entrance exam because I knew it was going to mostly be math.  It wasn't an easy test for somebody that's been out of school for a couple of years, but I passed.  I know there is no way that black guy could have passed the test if he couldn't figure out 6+6= 12.  The school must have doctored the test so they could get that government money three times for the same semester.


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## Lisa558 (Apr 12, 2022)

To bring it back to the point of the thread, this insistence by the Left to blame racism for the subset of blacks who remain in poverty is not only wrong, but it drives resentment and anger toward whites - and worse, doesn’t credit what it DOES take to move from poverty to the middle class (or even working class).

1) If racism was what was holding a subset of blacks in poverty, how does one explain that most blacks are middle class? Here in DC, once you move away from the inner-urban welfare districts, blacks are college educated (or at least have high school diplomas), and either living in their own houses or renting decent apartments, supporting themselves. PG County is an example of this - a large percentage of blacks, and middle to upper-middle class,

2) If bigotry is to blame for failure, then how does one explain the mass immigration of Jews around the turn of the 19th/20th century, arriving penniless, uneducated, and not speaking the language, manage to set up little shops or work in factories - and a generation later all their children college-educated professionals? This was accomplished while they witnessed the horrible antisemitism of Hitler, and had their families wiped out. (And many of these early immigrants experienced the racism first-hand, fleeing Russian pograms.)

So that these groups were able to succeed despite racism proves that racism is not the cause of poverty. These people had values and traits that allowed them to move beyond their disadvantaged beginnings: a value placed in education, motivation, discipline, intelligence, and a drive to make something better of one’s life.

These are all admirable traits, and ones we should recognize as the way out of poverty, and stop blaming outside forces for one’s poverty. it as almost always due to that individual’s poor choices.

1. Stay in school and get a HS diploma, at the minimum.
2. Do not have babies you can’t afford while you are a teen (or ever).


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## JoeB131 (Apr 12, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The reason for poverty among blacks who remain poor (most are working class or above) is the same reason that whites in poverty remain poor. It is due to having babies while still in one’s teens, without a husband, and often without completing high school as a result.
> 
> Anyone can break free of poverty by doing the following, at a minimum:



Um, okay, here's the thing.  The incidence of teen pregnancy has dropped since precipitously since the 1990's. from 61.8/1000 to 17/1000 in 2018. 






So by your dubious logic, racism and poverty should be "cured", right. 

Oh, wait, no, it's remained relatively flat. 








Lisa558 said:


> 1) If you have sex while in high school (not everyone does, by the way), use birth control consistently. Double up, even, because a pregnancy at this stage of life will likely result in a life of financial struggle. Thus, your chance of an unwanted pregnancy drops from “probably” to about 1 in 200.



Actually, it's 17 in 1000 now, and oddly, we still have grinding poverty if you aren't white. 



Lisa558 said:


> 2) Unencumbered by a baby, complete high school and then use a Pell Grant to get a free community college education focused on a vocational track. That right there moves you into the lower-middle class.
> 
> That’s it. Race is not a factor. In fact, the only two poor people I interact with on a consistent basis are white women both had babies (one at 15 and one at 17) and did not complete high school.



What you mean you interact with poor people without wetting yourself.  Because according to that other thread, you can't even see pictures of black people without having a major meltdown...


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 12, 2022)

To continue, we have the Left doing the OPPOSITE of what is needed to see blacks in poverty move beyond that. Instead of emphasizing the need to stay in school, and not have babies they can’t afford, they are actually promoting the very traits that will keep them down! Never was his more apparent than when the leftist Board of the African-American museum came up with their ”traits of whiteness”:

1) Being prompt
2) Being polite
3) Speaking English well
4j Respecting authority
5) Working hard
etc.

This is like the playground taunt against a black kid who studies hard, turns in his homework on time, and is respectful to the teacher as “acting white.”

The Left is clearly invested in keeping poor blacks down, convincing them the reason for their failure are racist whites, while they are actually discouraging the very traits and behavior that would enable them to succeed.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 12, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> To bring it back to the point of the thread, this insistence by the Left to blame racism for the subset of blacks who remain in poverty is not only wrong, but it drives resentment and anger toward whites - and worse, doesn’t credit what it DOES take to move from poverty to the middle class (or even working class).
> 
> 1) If racism was what was holding a subset of blacks in poverty, how does one explain that most blacks are middle class? Here in DC, once you move away from the inner-urban welfare districts, blacks are college educated (or at least have high school diplomas), and either living in their own houses or renting decent apartments, supporting themselves. PG County is an example of this - a large percentage of blacks, and middle to upper-middle class,



That's nice.  That just means they are more likely to be pulled over by a racist cop for a DWB because their car is too nice and they must have stole it. LIke this guy, got a college education, earned a commission in the US Army, and STILL got treated like this.  




Lisa558 said:


> 2) If bigotry is to blame for failure, then how does one explain the mass immigration of Jews around the turn of the 19th/20th century, arriving penniless, uneducated, and not speaking the language, manage to set up little shops or work in factories - and a generation later all their children college-educated professionals? This was accomplished while they witnessed the horrible antisemitism of Hitler, and had their families wiped out. (And many of these early immigrants experienced the racism first-hand, fleeing Russian pograms.)



Um, so how did Jews who came here in the 19th Century witness the horrors of Hitler. Hitler was on the other side of the planet.  

Here's the thing.  You wouldn't know a Jew was a Jew unless he told you.  Blacks are always going to be easily identified as black.  

As opposed to Jews, Germans, Irish, Italians, Poles, Catholics, who were "White enough" to be accepted by the Wasps.   Except not really.   We've only had two Catholic Irish Presidents, no Italians, maybe a couple of Germans. No Jews, obviously.  



Lisa558 said:


> So that these groups were able to succeed despite racism proves that racism is not the cause of poverty. These people has values and traits that allowed them to move beyond their disadvantaged beginnings: a value placed in education, motivation, discipline, intelligence, and a drive to make something better of one’s life.
> 
> These are all admirable traits, and ones we should recognize as the way out of poverty, and stop blaming outside forces for one’s poverty. it as almost always due to that individual’s poor choices.



Except not really.   There's a big gap between "being black" and "being a second-class white person".   

The thing about the immigrants is that the immigrants had a choice about coming here and had a choice to assimilate.  Which is why just one generation off the boat no one in my family except me speaks any German, and I speak it badly and had to make an effort to learn it. 

We've never let the blacks assimilate.  In fact, we passed laws making it a crime for people of different races to intermarry, and those laws were STILL ON THE BOOKS until 1969. So like within my lifetime.


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## JoeB131 (Apr 12, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> To continue, we have the Left doing the OPPOSITE of what is needed to see blacks in poverty move beyond that. Instead of emphasizing the need to stay in school, and not have babies they can’t afford, they are actually promoting the very traits that will keep them down! Never was his more apparent than when the leftist Board of the African-American museum came up with their ”traits of whiteness”:
> 
> 1) Being prompt
> 2) Being polite
> ...



You really think that being a suck up is anything anyone of any race should aspire to? 

Should also point that picking on the nerdy kid who studies hard is something kids of all races do.  Which is why the nerds turn out to be such assholes when they grow up and are in charge. 




*"Nope, now you have to pay an annual fee for your software...muhahahahahaha" *


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 12, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> We've never let the blacks assimilate.



Nothing preventing them from assimilating.  Assimilate means to act like other people.  You don't need the other peoples permission to do that.


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## Lisa558 (Apr 12, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> That's nice.  That just means they are more likely to be pulled over by a racist cop for a DWB because their car is too nice and they must have stole it. LIke this guy, got a college education, earned a commission in the US Army, and STILL got treated like this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh lookie, the antisemite ^^^ is back, making excuses for blacks making poor decisions while negating the unspeakable horrors Jews experienced. And yes…..having your parents and siblings be murdered for being Jewish is experiencing antisemitism.

And my grandparents did not have such a “choice” to immigrate. They were one step ahead of being murdered. One great-grandfather snuck out IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT and made it to the shore by foot, you a-hole Jew-hater! Today’s blacks have never experienced anything close to that, and yet white enablers like you are trying yo convince them “racism” is what is holding them back.

We see what you’re doing. Nobody could spew the Jew-hate you do while simultaneously blaming racism for black failures. You are trying to keep poor blacks poor, and angry at whites, because you think that’s the way to trick them into voting for the Democrats. Seen the polls lately? Blacks are waking up to how Dems are lying to them, and using them.


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## Lisa558 (Apr 12, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Nothing preventing them from assimilating.  Assimilate means to act like other people.  You don't need the other peoples permission to do that.


Another point to make…..the antisemite posted a chart showing the poverty rate is flat despite giving people who keep having babies without husbands more and more handouts. That‘s because handouts don’t work! As LBJ famously said, “give blacks enough to get their vote but not enough to make a difference” and that Dems would “have blacks - he used a racial slur instead - voting Dem for 200 years.”


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 12, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Another point to make…..the antisemite posted a chart showing the poverty rate is flat despite giving people who keep having babies without husbands more and more handouts. That‘s because handouts don’t work! As LBJ famously said, “give blacks enough to get their vote but not enough to make a difference” and that Dems would “have blacks - he used a racial slur instead - voting Dem for 200 years.”



As I posted a while back (I think it was in this topic) the CDC estimates it will cost you $233,000 to raise a middle-class child today from birth until the age of 18.  A woman having three or four kids on welfare will cost the taxpayers around $800,000 assuming she is not middle-class.  So when these people have children they could never afford in the first place, it keeps them in poverty for the rest of their lives because there is no way to raise those kids without government.  Even if the kids grow up and she gets this surge for success, who's going to hire a woman in her 40's with no experience at anything, especially if it's a slow economy at the time?  

If it were up to me, anybody applying for welfare would have to get fixed before they receive one dime.  It would benefit taxpayers as well as the recipient.  That's besides the fact the apple usually doesn't fall far from the tree and that makes it impossible to end poverty when we pay people to create more poverty kids.  And before you leftists chime in that my idea is Hitleresque, what do you think we working middle-class people do when we can't afford kids?  We get ourselves fixed, so we wouldn't be asking poor people to do anything different than what we do.


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## Lisa558 (Apr 12, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> As I posted a while back (I think it was in this topic) the CDC estimates it will cost you $233,000 to raise a middle-class child today from birth until the age of 18.  A woman having three or four kids on welfare will cost the taxpayers around $800,000 assuming she is not middle-class.  So when these people have children they could never afford in the first place, it keeps them in poverty for the rest of their lives because there is no way to raise those kids without government.  Even if the kids grow up and she gets this surge for success, who's going to hire a woman in her 40's with no experience at anything, especially if it's a slow economy at the time?
> 
> If it were up to me, anybody applying for welfare would have to get fixed before they receive one dime.  It would benefit taxpayers as well as the recipient.  That's besides the fact the apple usually doesn't fall far from the tree and that makes it impossible to end poverty when we pay people to create more poverty kids.  And before you leftists chime in that my idea is Hitleresque, what do you think we working middle-class people do when we can't afford kids?  We get ourselves fixed, so we wouldn't be asking poor people to do anything different than what we do.


The only people I know who had more than two kids are either wealthy (because they can afford them) or poor (because they don’t have to worry about affording them). I know a young woman with four kids - three different fathers - and they are on all sorts of government support, from rent subsidy to Medicaid, and she is talking about having a fifth before she is too old. (She’s currently 25). There is never a fleeting thought as to whether she can afford another kid.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 12, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Oh lookie, the antisemite ^^^ is back, making excuses for blacks making poor decisions while negating the unspeakable horrors Jews experienced. And yes…..having your parents and siblings be murdered for being Jewish is experiencing antisemitism.
> 
> And my grandparents did not have such a “choice” to immigrate. They were one step ahead of being murdered. One great-grandfather snuck out IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT and made it to the shore by foot, you a-hole Jew-hater! Today’s blacks have never experienced anything close to that, and yet white enablers like you are trying yo convince them “racism” is what is holding them back.
> 
> We see what you’re doing. Nobody could spew the Jew-hate you do while simultaneously blaming racism for black failures. You are trying to keep poor blacks poor, and angry at whites, because you think that’s the way to trick them into voting for the Democrats. Seen the polls lately? Blacks are waking up to how Dems are lying to them, and using them.



My father grew up very poor with no electricity, running water in the house, with his five other siblings with the square footage of a three car garage.  When he tried to get into the bricklayers union, they told him his request was declined because of his Polish heritage.  They were very open about it.  Before my father left the meeting, he stood up cursed them out because he was a Korean war veteran and was ashamed he fought for a country of people so prejudiced.  When they learned he was a vet, the welcomed him into the union.  Had a person with Polish heritage applied that was not a vet, they would have been denied for that reason alone. 

Point being is that it's not just blacks that had a rough time getting ahead, it was really kind of the standard back then for a lot of people.  We don't really understand it because we didn't have to face things like that.


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## monkrules (Apr 12, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The only people I know who had more than two kids are either wealthy (because they can afford them) or poor (because they don’t have to worry about affording them). I know a young woman with four kids - three different fathers - and they are on all sorts of government support, from rent subsidy to Medicaid, and she is talking about having a fifth before she is too old. (She’s currently 25). There is never a fleeting thought as to whether she can afford another kid.


I grew up in a miserably impoverished area. Many nearby housing projects, loads of rental units. Loads of people on welfare.

One guy, in a family of two adult men, one adult woman, and the mother, all healthy - told me they paid 35 dollars a month to rent their apartment. They were, and remain, worthless bums, milking the welfare system and, of course Section 8.

The scumbags in this area referred to the first of each month, when welfare checks would arrive, as "Mother's Day." I could tell you horror stories about the welfare abuse.

I used to watch Judge Judy on TV. It was fairly common to see worthless, non-working clowns proudly tell that they had 8 or more kids. None of which they supported, of course.

Our welfare system and worthless government "leaders" encourage this behavior. They TRAIN people to become worthless leeches.

I'll close my little rant before this little walk down Memory Lane depresses the Hell out of me.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 12, 2022)

monkrules said:


> I grew up in a miserably impoverished area. Many nearby housing projects, loads of rental units. Loads of people on welfare.
> 
> One guy, in a family of two adult men, one adult woman, and the mother, all healthy - told me they paid 35 dollars a month to rent their apartment. They were, and remain, worthless bums, milking the welfare system and, of course Section 8.
> 
> ...



Out of all my renters I only had to sue one in court.  It was an unmarried couple with two kids, one four years old and the other twelve.  They kept paying rent later and later until they were almost a month behind, so I asked them to come over to discuss the problem. 

The situation was he refused to work one hour over 40 a week, and she stayed home and took care of the kids, supposedly home schooling them even though she was dumb as F herself.  So my solution was for her to get a part-time job on weekends while he was home, he could watch the kids, and then they could catch up on their rent and other financial problems they had.  She wouldn't even consider it.  Because they were not married, she was categorized by our government as a single woman with two children, and she got $280.00 a month in food stamps, and she was not about to let that go.  

I had to evict them.  They stayed until the last day before the bailiff was going to come here and throw them out.  Besides the two kids, they had a large dog and four cats.  We were feeding them, and they were feeding their animals.  I had his paycheck garnished for about a year to reclaim my losses.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 12, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Out of all my renters I only had to sue one in court.  It was an unmarried couple with two kids, one four years old and the other twelve.  They kept paying rent later and later until they were almost a month behind, so I asked them to come over to discuss the problem.
> 
> The situation was he refused to work one hour over 40 a week, and she stayed home and took care of the kids, supposedly home schooling them even though she was dumb as F herself.  So my solution was for her to get a part-time job on weekends while he was home, he could watch the kids, and then they could catch up on their rent and other financial problems they had.  She wouldn't even consider it.  Because they were not married, she was categorized by our government as a single woman with two children, and she got $280.00 a month in food stamps, and she was not about to let that go.
> 
> I had to evict them.  They stayed until the last day before the bailiff was going to come here and throw them out.  Besides the two kids, they had a large dog and four cats.  We were feeding them, and they were feeding their animals.  I had his paycheck garnished for about a year to reclaim my losses.


I‘ve seen the same pattern. Now sure what’s up with the home schooling, but the very people who would be able to get a part-time job by putting the kids in school are stuck in the home schooling mode, when the mother herself barely squeaked though high school and in no position to take on the task.

It ends up being a lose-lose. The family loses out on much-needed income (even $12 an hour at 20 hours a week brings in $1000 a month - or more than half the rent payment!), and the kids lose out on a normal education, with other kids.


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## Lisa558 (Apr 12, 2022)

monkrules said:


> I grew up in a miserably impoverished area. Many nearby housing projects, loads of rental units. Loads of people on welfare.
> 
> One guy, in a family of two adult men, one adult woman, and the mother, all healthy - told me they paid 35 dollars a month to rent their apartment. They were, and remain, worthless bums, milking the welfare system and, of course Section 8.
> 
> ...


Yes, absolutely. Our government encourages the irresponsible behavior, and what‘s worse, we have leftists trying to convince them (and us) that refusing to get a job and living off of OPM is just as respectable choice as working to support oneself.

There’s a labor shortage right now - major! - and we still have people content to remain at home and refuse to bring in at least SOME income. What this country is missing is a sense of shame.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 12, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I‘ve seen the same pattern. Now sure what’s up with the home schooling, but the very people who would be able to get a part-time job by putting the kids in school are stuck in the home schooling mode, when the mother herself barely squeaked though high school and in no position to take on the task.
> 
> It ends up being a lose-lose. The family loses out on much-needed income (even $12 an hour at 20 hours a week brings in $1000 a month - or more than half the rent payment!), and the kids lose out on a normal education, with other kids.



Not only that but once it goes to court it's public record.  it's hard enough trying to find a decent place to rent yet alone have an eviction on your record.  The guy died a few years ago but I know where they moved to after I evicted them and it was a dump upstairs from some bar or something in Cleveland.  From what I was told, the landlord didn't do shit and the place continued to fall apart.  

Bottom line is that they chose to lose their home over food stamps.  Laziness may have played a part, but I'm aware of so many similar stories outside of that experience.  It must be some bizarre priority these days or something.  When I was younger, the first priority is having a roof over your head, and everything else comes after.


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## Meathead (Apr 12, 2022)

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> You have no understanding of US History or policy if you think it is not racism.
> 
> Just a 10 minute read of the Tulsa town bombings and Emmitt Till’a murder teaches you all you need to know.
> 
> ...


Why are blacks impoverished the world over? You honestly think black failure is a uniquely American phenomenon?


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## PinktheFloyd88 (Apr 12, 2022)

Meathead said:


> Why are blacks impoverished the world over? You honestly think black failure is a uniquely American phenomenon?


Because Africa was stripped of almost all natural resources in the 1800’s and early 1900’a and was colonized to hell and back for rubber, minerals, diamonds, etc


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## Meathead (Apr 12, 2022)

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> Because Africa was stripped of almost all natural resources in the 1800’s and early 1900’a and was colonized to hell and back for rubber, minerals, diamonds, etc


What about Brazil, Haiti, UK, France, Belgium ... fuck, anywhere they are found they are consistently at the very bottom rung of society. Hell, in Libya half of them are slaves.

Cut the racism shit. It's an excuse for the obvious which infringes on the monolithic doctrine of political correctness.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 12, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Oh lookie, the antisemite ^^^ is back, making excuses for blacks making poor decisions while negating the unspeakable horrors Jews experienced. And yes…..having your parents and siblings be murdered for being Jewish is experiencing antisemitism.



Except none of that happened in this country, so there's that.  I'm sure a lot of bad stuff happened to my relatives who stayed Germany. One of them was a priest who got sent to a concentration camp (ironically, the same one my dad's unit liberated) for saying stuff the Nazis didn't like.  Another was killed on the Eastern Front.  Another spent a couple years in an Allied Prison camp because he was a minor official who joined the NSDAP to keep his government job.  



Lisa558 said:


> And my grandparents did not have such a “choice” to immigrate. They were one step ahead of being murdered. One great-grandfather snuck out IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT and made it to the shore by foot, you a-hole Jew-hater! Today’s blacks have never experienced anything close to that, and yet white enablers like you are trying yo convince them “racism” is what is holding them back.



No, blacks experienced much worse.  Being kidnapped in their own country.  Being systematically beaten and raped and worked into early graves.  Then when they finally got freedom, they experienced 100 years of Jim Crow.   But let's whine about what happened to people in other countries, by all means.  



Lisa558 said:


> We see what you’re doing. Nobody could spew the Jew-hate you do while simultaneously blaming racism for black failures. You are trying to keep poor blacks poor, and angry at whites, because you think that’s the way to trick them into voting for the Democrats. Seen the polls lately? Blacks are waking up to how Dems are lying to them, and using them.



No, they aren't.  Trump didn't do any better with blacks that the Mormon did.   He did worse than Baby BUsh or Reagan.  



Lisa558 said:


> Another point to make…..the antisemite posted a chart showing the poverty rate is flat despite giving people who keep having babies without husbands more and more handouts. That‘s because handouts don’t work! As LBJ famously said, “give blacks enough to get their vote but not enough to make a difference” and that Dems would “have blacks - he used a racial slur instead - voting Dem for 200 years.”



LBJ never said that.  LBJ never said 90% of the things you attribute to him.  

Handouts work just fine. Just ask Ray, he's on disability.  We spend five times as much giving money to middle class white people through social security, Medicare, and unemployment than we do to poor black people.  

The point of the charts is that you said there was a link between unwed teen motherhood and poverty... which isn't true.  Teen motherhood has DROPPED LIKE A ROCK since the 1990's.   Thanks to contraception programs and sex education.   MEANWHILE, poverty has remained kind of the same.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 12, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Nothing preventing them from assimilating. Assimilate means to act like other people. You don't need the other peoples permission to do that.



Um, when you can't use the same entrance, drink out of the same water fountain, go to the same church, you are not being allowed to assimilate, dummy.  Not to mention laws to keep you from marrying outside your race, which existed in this country until 1969.  (Then again, Ray gets upset when he sees an interracial couple!) 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Out of all my renters I only had to sue one in court. It was an unmarried couple with two kids, one four years old and the other twelve. They kept paying rent later and later until they were almost a month behind, so I asked them to come over to discuss the problem.
> 
> The situation was he refused to work one hour over 40 a week, and she stayed home and took care of the kids, supposedly home schooling them even though she was dumb as F herself. So my solution was for her to get a part-time job on weekends while he was home, he could watch the kids, and then they could catch up on their rent and other financial problems they had. She wouldn't even consider it. Because they were not married, she was categorized by our government as a single woman with two children, and she got $280.00 a month in food stamps, and she was not about to let that go.



So you think they should have let their kids go hungry in order to pay you to live in your tenement... nice to see you have your priorities, Ray.  So, um, why didn't you do proper background checks when you rented to them? Because that's what I did when I was a landlord.  I made sure they had a job that paid well enough to make the rent check.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 12, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Um, when you can't use the same entrance, drink out of the same water fountain, go to the same church, you are not being allowed to assimilate, dummy. Not to mention laws to keep you from marrying outside your race, which existed in this country until 1969. (Then again, Ray gets upset when he sees an interracial couple!)



I've been doing this for 35 years.  I come from a family of landlords.  What I learned is that there is no such thing as a foolproof background check.  I've had people with great jobs, good credit and money in the bank that were my worst tenants.  I've had people who probably couldn't buy a bicycle on credit that were my better tenants and stayed for much longer periods of time.  it really boils down to instinct which is hard to use today with these bullshit fair housing laws.  It's those laws mostly responsible for neighborhoods going to hell. 

Oh, and I forgot you are still living in the 50's.  When I brought up assimilation I was talking about today since they still can't assimilate.  


JoeB131 said:


> So you think they should have let their kids go hungry in order to pay you to live in your tenement... nice to see you have your priorities, Ray. So, um, why didn't you do proper background checks when you rented to them? Because that's what I did when I was a landlord. I made sure they had a job that paid well enough to make the rent check.



What this pig could have done is take my suggestion.  Not only would she have made much more than the government was giving her at the end of the month, but able to solve their financial problems and still be able to feed her kids.  Or the father could have accepted overtime offered by his company, which I'm told he always refused.  Because they were not married it wouldn't have counted against her stipend.  Our government doesn't look at who else is in the household outside of the people (children) that need the assistance.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 13, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I've been doing this for 35 years. I come from a family of landlords. What I learned is that there is no such thing as a foolproof background check. I've had people with great jobs, good credit and money in the bank that were my worst tenants. I've had people who probably couldn't buy a bicycle on credit that were my better tenants and stayed for much longer periods of time. it really boils down to instinct which is hard to use today with these bullshit fair housing laws. It's those laws mostly responsible for neighborhoods going to hell.



Funny, I did it for 15 years, never had a bad tenant.  Funny how that works.   And I rented in what wasn't a great neighborhood (Cicero, IL) and still was able to find pretty good tenants.  Of course, I didn't start out being a racist douchenoodle like you probably did, where you took white trash over people of color with good jobs. 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Oh, and I forgot you are still living in the 50's. When I brought up assimilation I was talking about today since they still can't assimilate.



Yes, just pretend 400 years of ongoing racism doesn't exist.  You said yourself that you get upset when you see an interracial couple on TV. 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> What this pig could have done is take my suggestion. Not only would she have made much more than the government was giving her at the end of the month, but able to solve their financial problems and still be able to feed her kids. Or the father could have accepted overtime offered by his company, which I'm told he always refused. Because they were not married it wouldn't have counted against her stipend. Our government doesn't look at who else is in the household outside of the people (children) that need the assistance.



The government could insist you work a desk job instead of getting a disability, and you'd be the first one whining if they did.   

Now, your hypocrisy aside,


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 13, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Yes, just pretend 400 years of ongoing racism doesn't exist. You said yourself that you get upset when you see an interracial couple on TV.



What the fuck does racism that didn't exist most our lives have to do with them not being able to assimilate with whites today.  Other races do it just fine, even ones that came here legally and are first generation.  



JoeB131 said:


> The government could insist you work a desk job instead of getting a disability, and you'd be the first one whining if they did.
> 
> Now, your hypocrisy aside,



Yes, I know, your imaginary desk job again that you could never find me.  What a complete moron you are.  The don't hire old truck drivers to do desk jobs.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 13, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> What the fuck does racism that didn't exist most our lives have to do with them not being able to assimilate with whites today. Other races do it just fine, even ones that came here legally and are first generation.



Oh, dear, the Model Minority Argument.  Yes, Asians, you go be a model minority, because you are non-threatening.  OH, wait, what? They didn't have 400 years of institutionalized racism against them?  They actually had to have the resources to immigrate here legally? 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yes, I know, your imaginary desk job again that you could never find me. What a complete moron you are. The don't hire old truck drivers to do desk jobs.



Actually, you'd be amazed how desperate they are to find anyone to fill those jobs.   Hey, guy, I get it, you are getting the government cheese for free...why milk the cow?


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 13, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> What the fuck does racism that didn't exist most our lives have to do with them not being able to assimilate with whites today.  Other races do it just fine, even ones that came here legally and are first generation.


I can’t see what the antisemite said, but I’m guessing he went back to the 1950s to complain about what SOME parts of the country did - separate water fountains, back of the bus, etc.

While that was certainly horrible and racist, that was 60 years ago! What does it tell you about the existence of racism today if those who are wailing against it have to go back two generations to find it?!

If anything, blacks have been favored for my entire adulthood - especially when it comes to opportunities for higher education. Blacks are admitted to prestigious universities and grad programs (like med school) that have white applicants with superior grades and scores laughed at.

The odds are pretty stacked against you if you want to be a model or commercial actor. When the majority of hires are going to a slim minority - and you’re not part of the slim minority - lotsa luck.

Finally, blacks KNOW this. They and their white enablers are desperate to keep it hidden, but it’s common knowledge. I was at my mom’s AL facility, at the reception desk, when a black guy was trying to convince the black receptionist to apply for the sales manager position. She said that Sarah - a white girl working in that department - had experience and was much more qualified, and she would never get picked over her. The black guy said, “it doesn’t matter….you’re black, and you’ll get it.” She did.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 13, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I can’t see what the antisemite said, but I’m guessing he went back to the 1950s to complain about what SOME parts of the country did - separate water fountains, back of the bus, etc.
> 
> While that was certainly horrible and racist, that was 60 years ago! What does it tell you about the existence of racism today if those who are wailing against it have to go back two generations to find it?!



Oh, do you have me on ignore again... because I didn't pretend that what happened to people on the other side of the planet mattered to you. 

Miscegnation laws - the laws that made it a crime to marry outside your race - existed on our books until 1969.   Racism in this country is still endemic, and only a fool would contend otherwise. 



Lisa558 said:


> If anything, blacks have been favored for my entire adulthood - especially when it comes to opportunities for higher education. Blacks are admitted to prestigious universities and grad programs (like med school) that have white applicants with superior grades and scores laughed at.
> 
> The odds are pretty stacked against you if you want to be a model or commercial actor. When the majority of hires are going to a slim minority - and you’re not part of the slim minority - lotsa luck.



Really, most commercial actors I see are still white.  They maybe throw in a black or Asian for a little diversity, but they pick the ones with lighter skin and more white features. 

The fact is, we have more blacks in prison than college...  While, sure they get a little more preference in the elite schools, on the other side of the equation- schools like my alma mater UIC, they've been largely displaced in universities that were made for them.  



Lisa558 said:


> Finally, blacks KNOW this. They and their white enablers are desperate to keep it hidden, but it’s common knowledge. I was at my mom’s AL facility, at the reception desk, when a black guy was trying to convince the black receptionist to apply for the sales manager position. She said that Sarah - a white girl working in that department - had experience and was much more qualified, and she would never get picked over her. The black guy said, “it doesn’t matter….you’re black, and you’ll get it.” She did.



Maybe the black girl was more personable.  Maybe Sarah was a real bitch who the residents hated.  Of course, here's the ugly truth about Assisted Living.  Nobody really wants to work there.   In Chicago, most of the people working there are Polish and Filipina, and they can't wait to get into something better.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 13, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I can’t see what the antisemite said, but I’m guessing he went back to the 1950s to complain about what SOME parts of the country did - separate water fountains, back of the bus, etc.
> 
> While that was certainly horrible and racist, that was 60 years ago! What does it tell you about the existence of racism today if those who are wailing against it have to go back two generations to find it?!
> 
> ...



we were talking about assimilation and as usual, OCD went back 70 years thinking he could make a point about today.  Blacks can't assimilate in white neighborhoods and never could.  They talk differently, dress differently, they're very dirty and very loud which most all white middle-class neighborhoods are just the opposite.  

I have to laugh at the difference between years  ago and today.  Years ago when a police officer called in a person of interest or suspect, they said the first name and spelled the last.  it was like Henry Omwillo.  Henry common spelling, Omwillo O-M-W-I-L-L-O.  Now they have to spell the first name and say the last.  Yomiba Jones.  Y-O-M-I-B-A, Jones common spelling. 

They are just different in almost every way thus not being able to assimilate.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 13, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Oh, dear, the Model Minority Argument. Yes, Asians, you go be a model minority, because you are non-threatening. OH, wait, what? They didn't have 400 years of institutionalized racism against them? They actually had to have the resources to immigrate here legally?



If you're going to use the cheap excuse of what your grandparents went through to excuse your failures, you have no argument at all.  I don't care what my grandparents or grand parents had to go through.  My life started the day I was born and nothing that happened to them have any impact, zero impact on my life today.  But what should I expect from somebody that thinks blacks are too fucken stupid to make it without Democrats. 



JoeB131 said:


> Actually, you'd be amazed how desperate they are to find anyone to fill those jobs. Hey, guy, I get it, you are getting the government cheese for free...why milk the cow?



Sure they are, because any job for non-skilled labor pays about eight bucks an hour.  Sure they'll take anybody, but I'm not going to use the last years of my life doing that.  Government told me I was too medially messed up to work, but as always, OCD Joe knows more than government, knows more than doctors, knows more than everybody because he never educated himself on what disability is for.


----------



## LeftofLeft (Apr 13, 2022)

midcan5 said:


> Sure thing and Trump is a really good guy and the republicans all walked out of the SCOTUS confirmation to go to the bathroom and QAnon lady is smart person, - egad, you people are sad.
> 
> 'Faces of poverty: What racial, social groups are more likely to experience it?'
> 
> ...


Republicans walking out of Jackson’s confirmation had nothing to do with her race and everything to do with her radical philosophies. By your logic, Republicans should have walked out of Clarence Thomas. nomination. Republicans did not falsely accuse Jackson of rape or another crime like they did Kavanaugh.

Republicans walked out on the confirmation of of a justice who is soft on pedophiles and plays her gender card as a woman while refusing to define a woman.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 13, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> we were talking about assimilation and as usual, OCD went back 70 years thinking he could make a point about today.  Blacks can't assimilate in white neighborhoods and never could.  They talk differently, dress differently, they're very dirty and very loud which most all white middle-class neighborhoods are just the opposite.
> 
> I have to laugh at the difference between years  ago and today.  Years ago when a police officer called in a person of interest or suspect, they said the first name and spelled the last.  it was like Henry Omwillo.  Henry common spelling, Omwillo O-M-W-I-L-L-O.  Now they have to spell the first name and say the last.  Yomiba Jones.  Y-O-M-I-B-A, Jones common spelling.
> 
> They are just different in almost every way thus not being able to assimilate.


Yeah, these leftists crying about racism are some works of art, aren’t they? Not only are many of them hypocrites - like OCD saying horrible things about Jews while crying about the harm of bigotry against blacks - but having to go back two generations for examples of it.

A good discussion might be: why NOW, when anti-black racist laws have been outlawed for 60 years, and blacks are actually favored over whites in many areas, is there all this focus and wailing and exaggeration and outright lies about racism by Democrats? Have they hired strategists that told them that was the way to win campaigns?

Blacks are in a very good position in this country, with the exception of the street thugs who act like rabid animals. The federal government favors them in hiring, all the liberal non-profits around DC where I live favor them for hires and promotions, and of course competitive education programs favor them, big time.

In the DC suburbs, a prestigious school actually altered its admissions path (they dumped the entrance exam because not enough blacks could get high scores), with the announcement that the change was made specifically to swap out the high-scoring Asians for the lesser-scoring blacks.

If everything about me was the same - same intelligence, motivation, discipline, etc. - but I black Instead of white, I would have been a Harvard Law grad and a senior partner in law firm, or possibly a SCOTUS nominee.

It’s time for leftists to stop their racist policies. We can start with their stupid rule to capitalize Black and lower-case white.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 13, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> A good discussion might be: why NOW, when anti-black racist laws have been outlawed for 60 years, and blacks are actually favored over whites in many areas, is there all this focus and wailing and exaggeration and outright lies about racism by Democrats? Have they hired strategists that told them that was the way to win campaigns?



I think we both know that answer to that one, and the answer is victim hood.  Democrats love victims and victims love Democrats.  The more victims they can create, the more voters they have.  

Victims of big business, victims of crime, victims of Big Tobacco, victims of armed citizens, victims of Big Pharma, victims of smokers, victims of lower taxes on the wealthy.  Victims, victims, victims.  

When they run out of victims, they have to get more.  That's why we have an open southern border.  That's why they want to take away our guns or at the very least, make them nearly impossible to get.  What would happen to an unarmed society?  We'd all become victims like those people on the New York subway.  Nobody has a gun in NYC but the police who aren't there.  

Now blacks are very susceptible to this kind of indoctrination.  It's how the Democrat party has been able to keep them on the plantation all of these years.  But as blacks take more of an interest in politics, and become more educated, they will slowly drift off that plantation asking themselves what have the Democrats really done for them the last couple of generations.


----------



## WTH_Progs? (Apr 13, 2022)

Speaking as a black democrat your OP offends me, because I'll take all the excuses I can get.

It's natural for we democrats to blame others for the beds we make, and black democrats are second fiddle only democrat women who pretend they've been abused.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 13, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I think we both know that answer to that one, and the answer is victim hood.  Democrats love victims and victims love Democrats.  The more victims they can create, the more voters they have.
> 
> Victims of big business, victims of crime, victims of Big Tobacco, victims of armed citizens, victims of Big Pharma, victims of smokers, victims of lower taxes on the wealthy.  Victims, victims, victims.
> 
> ...


That answers the “why”? Democrats need to create victims in order to win an election.

But it doesn’t answer “why NOW?” or more accurately “why so EXTREME now”? Nothing really has changed. Blacks have been getting favored for admission for decades (remember Bakke? That was in the 70s), and liberals were prioritizing blacks for hires and promotions over better qualified white competitors, but now….Jees!

We have a president announcing that he was excluding any whites for consideration for SCOTUS, or, for that matter, VP. We have leftists accusing whites who refuse to agree with racist policies, such as Maculiffe’s proposal to pay black teachers more than whites, “racist,” in the biggest irony of all. There’s all this CRT influencing our schools, and teaching children that America is a racist country.

This has all been a BIG shift in recent years. So, why NOW? Why are the lies and exaggerations about racism NOW, rather than say, 10 years ago?


----------



## monkrules (Apr 13, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Blacks can't assimilate in white neighborhoods and never could.  They talk differently, dress differently, they're very dirty and very loud which most all white middle-class neighborhoods are just the opposite.
> 
> ====
> 
> They are just different in almost every way thus not being able to assimilate.


When I first arrived in my present city, I chose to live in a nice apartment complex that had a lot of black residents. I soon regretted that choice.

As you said many were unbelievably loud and vulgar. Often arguing and shouting at each other across the grounds. Disgusting people.

Not all were that bad but plenty were. When my 12 month lease was up I was out of there like a bat out of hell. I'll never again have a black neighbor if I can possibly avoid it.

Blacks don't have a clue about the need to assimilate - they think *WE* should change in order to accept *them*. It's that nasty 85 thing at work again. Lol...


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 13, 2022)

monkrules said:


> When I first arrived in my present city, I chose to live in a nice apartment complex that had a lot of black residents. I soon regretted that choice.
> 
> As you said many were unbelievably loud and vulgar. Often arguing and shouting at each other across the grounds. Disgusting people.
> 
> ...


It takes a special type of chutzpah for the minority to expect the majority to accommodate to them.


----------



## monkrules (Apr 13, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> That answers the “why”? Democrats need to create victims in order to win an election.
> 
> But it doesn’t answer “why NOW?” or more accurately “why so EXTREME now”? Nothing really has changed. Blacks have been getting favored for admission for decades (remember Bakke? That was in the 70s), and liberals were prioritizing blacks for hires and promotions over better qualified white competitors, but now….Jees!
> 
> ...


Just a few minutes ago, on NPR, there was an interview with someone from MIT. He said they will once again be using entrance exams, as well as considering the kinds of advanced high school classes (and results) that have been taken by applicants.

Maybe the steep, speedy slide to the bottom is finally beginning to slow.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 13, 2022)

monkrules said:


> Just a few minutes ago, on NPR, there was an interview with someone from MIT. He said they will once again be using entrance exams, as well as considering the kinds of advanced high school classes (and results) that have been taken by applicants.
> 
> Maybe the steep, speedy slide to the bottom is finally beginning to slow.



In recent months, the leftists turned the water up to a full boil, and we have time to save ourselves.

You know about TJ, don’t you? It’s a prestigious public high school for science and technology, and Asians were acing the admissions test  and blacks were bringing up the rear. They intentionally discontinued the exam so they could swap out Asians with blacks. It was a racist  decision whereby admissions requirements were adjusted downward specifically to get a specific race in, and a specific race out.

Anyway, glad to hear about MIT. I believe we have turned a corner, starting with the election of the Republican as VA Governor.


----------



## monkrules (Apr 13, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> In recent months, the leftists turned the water up to a full boil, and we have time to save ourselves.
> 
> You know about TJ, don’t you? It’s a prestigious public high school for science and technology, and Asians were acing the admissions test  and blacks were bringing up the rear. They intentionally discontinued the exam so they could swap out Asians with blacks. It was a racist  decision whereby admissions requirements were adjusted downward specifically to get a specific race in, and a specific race out.
> 
> Anyway, glad to hear about MIT. I believe we have turned a corner, starting with the election of the Republican as VA Governor.


I'm an Independent and have a fairly balanced voting record, with regard to parties. But in the '22 and '24 elections I hope to find capable Republicans for my votes.

I hate much of Biden's agenda. Allowing the invasion by illegal aliens and doing nothing to stop it. Throwing "free" government money at anyone whose vote might be easily bought. Putting blacks in every possible high position, with NO attention given to any other highly qualified candidates of other ethnicities. Again, selling positions for black votes. Old, senile Joe has prostituted his presidency from day one.

The problem, as I see it, is finding intelligent, capable Republican candidates. I hate all the right-wing conspiracy crackpots: M Taylor-Greene, etc. And Trump is a cry-baby and self-absorbed clown. The GOP needs to grow beyond these crazies.

I wish we could flush our current politicians down the toilet so we could start with a whole new group.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 13, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> we were talking about assimilation and as usual, OCD went back 70 years thinking he could make a point about today. Blacks can't assimilate in white neighborhoods and never could. They talk differently, dress differently, they're very dirty and very loud which most all white middle-class neighborhoods are just the opposite.



Tell us again how you aren't racist, Ray, that shit never gets old. 

The point is, these laws DID create the lack of assimilation you whine about.   Point is these laws made the ability to institutionalize racism possible. 

Let's compare the US and Brazil.  Brazil had slavery until 1888, 23 years longer than the US. Yet they don't have the racist divides.  A main reason was that the African, Portuguese and Native populations all intermarried, avoiding the poor dumb whites who still got to be just a bit better than blacks and were happy with that.  



Ray From Cleveland said:


> I have to laugh at the difference between years ago and today. Years ago when a police officer called in a person of interest or suspect, they said the first name and spelled the last. it was like Henry Omwillo. Henry common spelling, Omwillo O-M-W-I-L-L-O. Now they have to spell the first name and say the last. Yomiba Jones. Y-O-M-I-B-A, Jones common spelling.



Um, yeah, so what's your point?   How many white names of Polish or Italian origin would they have to spell out? 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> If you're going to use the cheap excuse of what your grandparents went through to excuse your failures, you have no argument at all. I don't care what my grandparents or grand parents had to go through. My life started the day I was born and nothing that happened to them have any impact, zero impact on my life today. But what should I expect from somebody that thinks blacks are too fucken stupid to make it without Democrats.



Again, buddy, you've had all the advantages of being white in this society and you still ended up living in a slum and collecting a government check. I don't think you get to boast. 

But I was addressing Jewy McJewstein over there who thinks that what happened to other Jews 80 years ago on the other side of the planet effected her life.  The Jews will forever whine about Hitler, but think that the Blacks are making too much of a big deal about slavery and Jim Crow. 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Sure they are, because any job for non-skilled labor pays about eight bucks an hour. Sure they'll take anybody, but I'm not going to use the last years of my life doing that. Government told me I was too medially messed up to work, but as always, OCD Joe knows more than government, knows more than doctors, knows more than everybody because he never educated himself on what disability is for.



I know exactly what it was MEANT for.   Sadly, people have learned to scam it.  Like when my poor sister went blind and the room was filled with people who were younger than she was and perfectly healthy claiming addictions and minor work injuries as "disabilities".


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 13, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> It takes a special type of chutzpah for the minority to expect the majority to accommodate to them.



Well, the majority of us would call it "common decency", but I don't think you understand that concept.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 13, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yeah, these leftists crying about racism are some works of art, aren’t they? Not only are many of them hypocrites - like OCD saying horrible things about Jews while crying about the harm of bigotry against blacks - but having to go back two generations for examples of it.



You have to go back three or more generations and the other side of the planet... 

Again- your religion is a choice.  It's a dumb choice, because at this point, you all should have figured out there is no God, and he certainly doesn't care about you. 



Lisa558 said:


> A good discussion might be: why NOW, when anti-black racist laws have been outlawed for 60 years, and blacks are actually favored over whites in many areas, is there all this focus and wailing and exaggeration and outright lies about racism by Democrats? Have they hired strategists that told them that was the way to win campaigns?



Actually, most decent whites know this is an unequal country.  Most racists aren't voting Democrat anyway.   The reality is, you guys haven't won the popular vote since 1988.  And every year, there are less of you.  



Lisa558 said:


> Blacks are in a very good position in this country, with the exception of the street thugs who act like rabid animals. The federal government favors them in hiring, all the liberal non-profits around DC where I live favor them for hires and promotions, and of course competitive education programs favor them, big time.



And so?  Frankly, it looks like you are trying to blame blacks for your failures in life. 



Lisa558 said:


> In the DC suburbs, a prestigious school actually altered its admissions path (they dumped the entrance exam because not enough blacks could get high scores), with the announcement that the change was made specifically to swap out the high-scoring Asians for the lesser-scoring blacks.





Lisa558 said:


> If everything about me was the same - same intelligence, motivation, discipline, etc. - but I black Instead of white, I would have been a Harvard Law grad and a senior partner in law firm, or possibly a SCOTUS nominee.



Naw, you'd still be an unlikeable witch with an overinflated sense of entitlement.   Then again, when you go through life thinking you are the Sky Pixie's Chosen People, I can see where the arrogance comes in.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 13, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> That answers the “why”? Democrats need to create victims in order to win an election.
> 
> But it doesn’t answer “why NOW?” or more accurately “why so EXTREME now”? Nothing really has changed. Blacks have been getting favored for admission for decades (remember Bakke? That was in the 70s), and liberals were prioritizing blacks for hires and promotions over better qualified white competitors, but now….Jees!



Um, not really.  There are no quotas and haven't been since the 1991 Civil Rights bill.  The few setasides blacks get don't make up for the advantages white people get simply by old boy networks and nepotism.  



Lisa558 said:


> We have a president announcing that he was excluding any whites for consideration for SCOTUS, or, for that matter, VP. We have leftists accusing whites who refuse to agree with racist policies, such as Maculiffe’s proposal to pay black teachers more than whites, “racist,” in the biggest irony of all. There’s all this CRT influencing our schools, and teaching children that America is a racist country.



America is a racist country... 





This should be the cover of every American History book. 

In fact, black teachers are paid LESS than their white counterparts, and frankly, it's kind of a disservice, because we need more black teachers.  Kids are going to learn more easily from someone they can relate to.


----------



## whitehall (Apr 13, 2022)

The DNC needs a poverty base and they can't use illegal aliens yet. Imagine singling out Black people and claiming that they are unable to obtain something as basic in the 21st century as a photo I.D. card. Racist democrats get away with putting honest Americans down because the racist media supports the agenda.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 13, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Um, yeah, so what's your point? How many white names of Polish or Italian origin would they have to spell out?



None.  I listen to my scanner all the time.  You learn so much about what's going on in your city than you'll ever read in any paper unless it's a major event like murder. 



JoeB131 said:


> Again, buddy, you've had all the advantages of being white in this society and you still ended up living in a slum and collecting a government check. I don't think you get to boast.
> 
> But I was addressing Jewy McJewstein over there who thinks that what happened to other Jews 80 years ago on the other side of the planet effected her life. The Jews will forever whine about Hitler, but think that the Blacks are making too much of a big deal about slavery and Jim Crow.



There were no advantages being white and still aren't.  I went to the same school as other blacks in high school.  I graduated with other blacks in high school. I went to get a job like other blacks once out of school.  I eventually got into a trade like some other blacks did or could have.  I made investments like other blacks did or could have.  Outside of pot I never got involved in drug usage like other blacks.  I never got involved in crime like other blacks that didn't.  I never had children at a young enough age where I couldn't support them like a lot of blacks that don't.  

So where is this advantage you speak of? 



JoeB131 said:


> I know exactly what it was MEANT for. Sadly, people have learned to scam it. Like when my poor sister went blind and the room was filled with people who were younger than she was and perfectly healthy claiming addictions and minor work injuries as "disabilities".



You are full of shit as always.  You didn't talk to one person there.  If you did they likely told you to mind your own business.  I posted the disability requirements so you don't know shit as always.  Would you like me to post the government link again?  I'm not going to unless you're going to read it.  Because if you did know anything, you wouldn't have been bringing it up for over two years now with nearly every post in spite of your severe mental disorder of OCD.   You know the first letter of the acronym is OBSESSIVE.  If you ever get help for it (which you don't have the balls to do), take some of these posts with you.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 14, 2022)

monkrules said:


> When I first arrived in my present city, I chose to live in a nice apartment complex that had a lot of black residents. I soon regretted that choice.
> 
> As you said many were unbelievably loud and vulgar. Often arguing and shouting at each other across the grounds. Disgusting people.
> 
> ...



Oh, they know very well, it's just that their attitude is they're going to do whatever the hell they want and if you don't like it, too bad.  Move again if you need to.  

When you don't want to live in the noise and filth the Communists call you racist.  Yet when they have the cash, they all move to the whitest neighborhood their money can afford.  

I had my father and cousin over this evening for a visit.  I had the windows open because it was a nice day.  Then some black pulled up with a loud motorcycle with that jungle music blaring so loud it could be heard five houses away.  They looked out the window and then looked back at me not saying a word.  I told them this goes on all summer long.  They questioned me why the cops don't do anything.  I told them the cops gave up.  They would be writing noise disturbance tickets all day long and half of them will never show up to court.  When they issue a warrant for their arrest, most of the time when caught they just advise them to take care of the warrant because our jails are usually full.  

IMO the worst thing whites ever supported was desegregation.  Back then whites were told that blacks were like whites, just with different color skin, and some still believe that today.  Of course they don't live with blacks.


----------



## monkrules (Apr 14, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Oh, they know very well, it's just that their attitude is they're going to do whatever the hell they want and if you don't like it, too bad.  Move again if you need to.
> 
> When you don't want to live in the noise and filth the Communists call you racist.  Yet when they have the cash, they all move to the whitest neighborhood their money can afford.
> 
> ...


Total segregation would be a HUGE blessing for this country.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 14, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> That answers the “why”? Democrats need to create victims in order to win an election.
> 
> But it doesn’t answer “why NOW?” or more accurately “why so EXTREME now”? Nothing really has changed. Blacks have been getting favored for admission for decades (remember Bakke? That was in the 70s), and liberals were prioritizing blacks for hires and promotions over better qualified white competitors, but now….Jees!
> 
> ...



It's not just now, it's been going on for a very long time.  Democrats are already starting to lose some of the black vote.  If they ever lose the majority of them, they are doomed as a party and they know it.  So they put their reverse discrimination on steroids and promoting how blacks can't accomplish anything in life without their help.  

Now Dementia is saying we need to put a woman on the moon.  Like this country now in 30 trillion in debt needs to spend billions more to try and buy votes they are chasing away with their trans movement.  We went to the moon.  There is nothing on it.  There is no reason to do it again.  Back in the 60's we just had to prove our technical superiority especially over the Soviet Union.  

An anti-lynching law?  When was the last time a black got lynched in the US?  Decades ago I'm sure, but once again, trying to get the politically ignorant to vote for them.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 14, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> None. I listen to my scanner all the time.



Yes, we all realize your sad existence.  You live in a slum, with a house full of cameras to keep an eye on your scary neighbors who all hate you, you spend all day listening to police scanners instead of enjoying life. 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> There were no advantages being white and still aren't. I went to the same school as other blacks in high school. I graduated with other blacks in high school. I went to get a job like other blacks once out of school. I eventually got into a trade like some other blacks did or could have. I made investments like other blacks did or could have. Outside of pot I never got involved in drug usage like other blacks. I never got involved in crime like other blacks that didn't. I never had children at a young enough age where I couldn't support them like a lot of blacks that don't.



And you ended up living in a slum collecting welfare just like they do.  Amazing.  You had all the advantages of being white, you took the path of least resistance, and you still ending up failing. 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Would you like me to post the government link again?


Why?  If you have no pride, that's not my problem.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 14, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Oh, they know very well, it's just that their attitude is they're going to do whatever the hell they want and if you don't like it, too bad. Move again if you need to.
> 
> When you don't want to live in the noise and filth the Communists call you racist. Yet when they have the cash, they all move to the whitest neighborhood their money can afford.



So it's everyone else's fault you live in a slum, right, Ray. 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> I had my father and cousin over this evening for a visit. I had the windows open because it was a nice day. Then some black pulled up with a loud motorcycle with that jungle music blaring so loud it could be heard five houses away. They looked out the window and then looked back at me not saying a word. I told them this goes on all summer long. They questioned me why the cops don't do anything. I told them the cops gave up. They would be writing noise disturbance tickets all day long and half of them will never show up to court. When they issue a warrant for their arrest, most of the time when caught they just advise them to take care of the warrant because our jails are usually full.



Wow, you mean people ignore racist pretextual infractions.  Amazing.  



Ray From Cleveland said:


> IMO the worst thing whites ever supported was desegregation. Back then whites were told that blacks were like whites, just with different color skin, and some still believe that today. Of course they don't live with blacks.



I live with blacks.  In fact, I bought my new Condo from a black lady (who wanted to move south to live with relatives).  Property values are increasing even in the sixth months I've been here.  

The problem is, you are mistaking poverty for race.  Yes, poor people live less well.   The way the REpublicans get by is telling dumb white trash failures like you that you are somehow better, and the government is responsible for all your bad decisions.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 14, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It's not just now, it's been going on for a very long time.  Democrats are already starting to lose some of the black vote.  If they ever lose the majority of them, they are doomed as a party and they know it.  So they put their reverse discrimination on steroids and promoting how blacks can't accomplish anything in life without their help.
> 
> Now Dementia is saying we need to put a woman on the moon.  Like this country now in 30 trillion in debt needs to spend billions more to try and buy votes they are chasing away with their trans movement.  We went to the moon.  There is nothing on it.  There is no reason to do it again.  Back in the 60's we just had to prove our technical superiority especially over the Soviet Union.
> 
> An anti-lynching law?  When was the last time a black got lynched in the US?  Decades ago I'm sure, but once again, trying to get the politically ignorant to vote for them.


A woman on the moon? The pandering to the left is just ridiculous.

As far as the anti-lynching law, that’s just more of the Left trying to fool people into thinking blacks are victims. About a month before the last election, my ultra-lib Congressman sent out a mailing bragging how he was instrumental the previous year in getting rid of racist laws. I emailed asking what racist laws did we have, and there was never an answer. Of course there ARE no racist laws - just another Dem lie.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 14, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Wow, you mean people ignore racist pretextual infractions. Amazing.



Nope. just those people.  



JoeB131 said:


> I live with blacks. In fact, I bought my new Condo from a black lady (who wanted to move south to live with relatives). Property values are increasing even in the sixth months I've been here.
> 
> The problem is, you are mistaking poverty for race. Yes, poor people live less well. The way the REpublicans get by is telling dumb white trash failures like you that you are somehow better, and the government is responsible for all your bad decisions.



Yeah, sure you live with blacks.  What, one or two?  

Yes, I am better, much better.  I respect the peace of my neighbors, I'm not riding around with my stereo blasting, I follow the laws of our city and state, and if I ever got a ticket for breaking the law, I'll pay it.  I don't throw any trash on the street, I keep up my property, I am much better.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 14, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Yes, we all realize your sad existence. You live in a slum, with a house full of cameras to keep an eye on your scary neighbors who all hate you, you spend all day listening to police scanners instead of enjoying life.



I'm doing just fine.  Why do you Communists think that you know how other people live?  I can't wait until people realize it's time to divide this country so we never have to put up with you again.  Once gone, my slum will disappear and we will be a thriving suburb again.  

Nobody builds slums, people make nice areas into slums. 



JoeB131 said:


> And you ended up living in a slum collecting welfare just like they do. Amazing. You had all the advantages of being white, you took the path of least resistance, and you still ending up failing.



I'd argue the point but you're too fucken stupid to know what welfare is.  Dumb as a fucken rock, you live in your own world, with your own laws in your head, with your own definition of words, and you look stupid to everybody else with zero embarrassment of your ignorance. 



JoeB131 said:


> Why? If you have no pride, that's not my problem.



If you wish to remain ignorant and stupid, that's not my problem either.  Stay dumb and ignore facts.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 14, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yeah, sure you live with blacks. What, one or two?
> 
> Yes, I am better, much better. I respect the peace of my neighbors, I'm not riding around with my stereo blasting, I follow the laws of our city and state, and if I ever got a ticket for breaking the law, I'll pay it. I don't throw any trash on the street, I keep up my property, I am much better.



Yup.. Um, check your privilege..   



Ray From Cleveland said:


> I'm doing just fine. Why do you Communists think that you know how other people live? I can't wait until people realize it's time to divide this country so we never have to put up with you again. Once gone, my slum will disappear and we will be a thriving suburb again.



Actually, I can judge only by your writings here, and man, you sound like a miserable fuck.  Now, if you are happy at times when you aren't here, it certainly doesn't come across in your writings.  

And, no, dividing the country won't make you happy.  I don't think anything would.  We could give you a spot of land somewhere, call it the "Republic of Ray", and you'd still be miserable. 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> I'd argue the point but you're too fucken stupid to know what welfare is. Dumb as a fucken rock, you live in your own world, with your own laws in your head, with your own definition of words, and you look stupid to everybody else with zero embarrassment of your ignorance.



Not at all... as you Republicans like to say, if you divide the world between makers and takers, at this point, you are a taker.  Of course, half the country are takers, but that's because of "entitlement" programs we have to keep middle class people from becoming truly poor.  Remember Mormon Mitt and his 47% crack.  Well, you are part of the 53% now. 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> If you wish to remain ignorant and stupid, that's not my problem either. Stay dumb and ignore facts.


The fact is, if you can get on here every day and bitch about the welfare people, then you can get out there and work.  I honestly don't care if it's flipping burgers.  At least do..something.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 14, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> A woman on the moon? The pandering to the left is just ridiculous.
> 
> As far as the anti-lynching law, that’s just more of the Left trying to fool people into thinking blacks are victims. About a month before the last election, my ultra-lib Congressman sent out a mailing bragging how he was instrumental the previous year in getting rid of racist laws. I emailed asking what racist laws did we have, and there was never an answer. Of course there ARE no racist laws - just another Dem lie.



I'm sure his staff has you marked as "that Crazy bitch".


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 14, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, I can judge only by your writings here, and man, you sound like a miserable fuck. Now, if you are happy at times when you aren't here, it certainly doesn't come across in your writings.
> 
> And, no, dividing the country won't make you happy. I don't think anything would. We could give you a spot of land somewhere, call it the "Republic of Ray", and you'd still be miserable.



Oh trust me, every Republican and conservative would be happy never seeing you commies ever again.  No more destroying neighborhoods, no more crying about people with guns, no more bitching about taxation, no more environmental BS.  We could only imagine such a great world with no liberals around, no more treating weirdos in dresses like women, none of it.  



JoeB131 said:


> The fact is, if you can get on here every day and bitch about the welfare people, then you can get out there and work. I honestly don't care if it's flipping burgers. At least do..something.



I worked all my life; real work, not sitting at a desk somewhere.  You don't like it, too bad.  Wallow in misery.  It only makes me happier.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Oh trust me, every Republican and conservative would be happy never seeing you commies ever again. No more destroying neighborhoods, no more crying about people with guns, no more bitching about taxation, no more environmental BS. We could only imagine such a great world with no liberals around, no more treating weirdos in dresses like women, none of it.



Yeah, the thing is, the parts of the country you do control are poorer and more miserable than the parts we control. 







Ray From Cleveland said:


> I worked all my life; real work,


And now you collect the government cheese...


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Yeah, the thing is, the parts of the country you do control are poorer and more miserable than the parts we control.
> 
> View attachment 630882
> 
> ...



You're a moron.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 15, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You're a moron.


I have the hypocritical antisemite complaining about bigotry on ignore, but then I‘ve become curious as to his latest moronic comment, and take a peek. It’s like looking at a car crash. You know it won‘t be pretty, but curiosity wins out.


----------



## Leviticus (Apr 15, 2022)

There were specific laws written to keep minorities poor.

For example, when the federal government started the original mortgage program, minorities were ineligible to receive loans, as were whites who lived in neighborhoods that had minority residents

This was designed to keep minorities out of the suburbs, where 90% of mortgages went


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 15, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I have the hypocritical antisemite complaining about bigotry on ignore, but then I‘ve become curious as to his latest moronic comment, and take a peek. It’s like looking at a car crash. You know it won‘t be pretty, but curiosity wins out.



Yeah I don't think I'm far behind ya.  It's getting annoying with his OCD.  He's so obsessed he has to repeat the same shit over and over again I'm to the point of putting him on ignore as well.  I understand severe mental problems. I once had a best friend with it.  But if somebody is such a gutless pansy they refuse to get help for it, why should I put up with it.  Nobody is paying me to.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 15, 2022)

Leviticus said:


> There were specific laws written to keep minorities poor.
> 
> For example, when the federal government started the original mortgage program, minorities were ineligible to receive loans, as were whites who lived in neighborhoods that had minority residents
> 
> This was designed to keep minorities out of the suburbs, where 90% of mortgages went


Yeah, that was generations ago.

What’s the excuse THIS century?  Blacks have had the advantage of pro-black, anti-white racism voa Affirmative Action for TWO generations. In two generations, my family went from impoverished, uneducated immigrants to doctors and lawyers - and that’s despite the anti-white AA laws. If blacks who haven’t moved beyond poverty in  two generations of AA and Pell Grants, then the problem lies within THEM, not others.

1. Stay in school
2. No out-of-wedlock babies

You leftists are determined to keep blacks poor by blaming their poverty on something that doesn’t exist, or at least exist to any great extent, and argue AGAINST the very things that could get them out of poverty.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 15, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yeah I don't think I'm far behind ya.  It's getting annoying with his OCD.  He's so obsessed he has to repeat the same shit over and over again I'm to the point of putting him on ignore as well.  I understand severe mental problems. I once had a best friend with it.  But if somebody is such a gutless pansy they refuse to get help for it, why should I put up with it.  Nobody is paying me to.


His hypocrisy is what irks me more, and it reveals itself in many ways. The two most glaring are:

1. He blames you for being on “welfare,“ when it is of course disability after a lifetime of work, and yet defends blacks on welfare and would screech raaaacist at anyone who complained about it.

2. He defends blacks against non-existent racists, and yet spews venom about Jews.

Some of the leftists on this forum - well, most of them - represent what is wrong with this country. Hateful, hypocritical people who accuse others of what they themselves are guilty of.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 15, 2022)

Leviticus said:


> There were specific laws written to keep minorities poor.
> 
> For example, when the federal government started the original mortgage program, minorities were ineligible to receive loans, as were whites who lived in neighborhoods that had minority residents
> 
> This was designed to keep minorities out of the suburbs, where 90% of mortgages went



Yeah but look at the reason.  It wasn't because banks didn't like the color of their skin, it's because they destroyed property values wherever they moved to.  Banks (much like employers) have one favorite color, and that color is green.  

It's not an opinion, it's first hand experience.  I owned this place for 30 years, and it's worth the same today as it was when I bought it because the blacks moved in.  Stores are closed down, trash everywhere on the streets, schools went from one of the best to one of the worst.  We even had to stop public gatherings like 4th of July fireworks because you can't assemble any large group of blacks without it turning into gang fights.  We can't even keep police officers here.


----------



## Unkotare (Apr 15, 2022)

Wow, black Americans sure are lucky to have such generous white folks to tell them exactly what their problems are and exactly how they should live. You know, because all black people are exactly the same and have exactly the same life experiences. And of course, absurdly presumptuous and self-important old white ladies know everything about the life of every black American in the country and exactly what they need to do to "fix" themselves. True heroes.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 15, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yeah but look at the reason.  It wasn't because banks didn't like the color of their skin, it's because they destroyed property values wherever they moved to.  Banks (much like employers) have one favorite color, and that color is green.
> 
> It's not an opinion, it's first hand experience.  I owned this place for 30 years, and it's worth the same today as it was when I bought it because the blacks moved in.  Stores are closed down, trash everywhere on the streets, schools went from one of the best to one of the worst.  We even had to stop public gatherings like 4th of July fireworks because you can't assemble any large group of blacks without it turning into gang fights.  We can't even keep police officers here.


This is true. I remember decades ago when I thought the comment “there goes the neighborhood” was racist, but I’ve come to see that it is true, depending on the SES of the neighborhood.

In affluent neighborhoods, where houses cost $800,000 to a million and more, with large yards tended to by landscapers, the value is not impacted by blacks who move in. These blacks are educated professionals earning good money.

Where it DOES lower the neighborhood is in the modest, working class neighborhoods, where parents take pride that they were able to afford a little house, and they are out every weekend trimming weeds, painting chipped paint around the window sill, whatever. When poorer blacks move into these neighborhoods, the values do go down. I’ve witnessed it myself.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I have the hypocritical antisemite complaining about bigotry on ignore, but then I‘ve become curious as to his latest moronic comment, and take a peek. It’s like looking at a car crash. You know it won‘t be pretty, but curiosity wins out.



Again, your religion is a choice, and a stupid one. 

God doesn't exist, and you aren't special.  Deal with it.


----------



## DBA (Apr 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> You had all the advantages of being white,



He lists all the reasons why he had no advantage from this skin color and then you respond with this nonsense.  Being white is of very little consequence positively or negatively in this country. How a person acts and the choices they make in life dwarfs skin color.  The problem with many is that they spend more time belly aching about how they didn’t get hired and can’t succeed because of their skin color and don’t bother to invest in their time an effort into making good choices.



JoeB131 said:


> The way the REpublicans get by is telling dumb white trash failures like you that you are somehow better, and the government is responsible for all your bad decisions.



Except the average salary of Republicans is higher, particularly outside of large urban centers.  As I have stated before, union garbage collectors in large cities can make as much as a mid-level engineer in middle America. Those Democrats skew the salary ranges a bit, but not many would argue which one of these is likely the “dumb” one.



JoeB131 said:


> Yeah, the thing is, the parts of the country you do control are poorer and more miserable than the parts we control.



LOL…No, the blue areas in those parts of the country may be more miserable. The red areas in those parts have it MUCH better than most Democratic areas in large urban Democratic areas.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yeah I don't think I'm far behind ya. It's getting annoying with his OCD. He's so obsessed he has to repeat the same shit over and over again I'm to the point of putting him on ignore as well. I understand severe mental problems. I once had a best friend with it. But if somebody is such a gutless pansy they refuse to get help for it, why should I put up with it. Nobody is paying me to.



Uh, guy, laughing at your hypocrisy and failure isn't OCD.  It's just pointing it out.  



Lisa558 said:


> His hypocrisy is what irks me more, and it reveals itself in many ways. The two most glaring are:
> 
> 1. He blames you for being on “welfare,“ when it is of course disability after a lifetime of work, and yet defends blacks on welfare and would screech raaaacist at anyone who complained about it.



Disability is welfare.. Deal with it.  
I don't defend blacks on welfare.  I think every person should have a job paying a living wage as a right.  
You should only get disability if you are completely disabled, not if you've managed to get a doctor.  Just like I think all these folks who bring their filthy ass dogs into a resturant because they got a doctor to call it an "emotional support animal" are scamming.  



Lisa558 said:


> 2. He defends blacks against non-existent racists, and yet spews venom about Jews.



You mean pointing out that you guys are ... kind of awful.  Yes, when you murder an indigenous people to steal their land, you will get venom.  And bombings. 



Lisa558 said:


> Some of the leftists on this forum - well, most of them - represent what is wrong with this country. Hateful, hypocritical people who accuse others of what they themselves are guilty of.



Not really.  Your fake outrage when you are privileged is hardly a thing to complain about.


----------



## DBA (Apr 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Again, your religion is a choice, and a stupid one.
> 
> God doesn't exist, and you aren't special.  Deal with it.



Believing you and this world just happened to come to be from trillions of extremely fortunate yet random events is the epitome of stupidity.  Is winning the lottery several weeks in a row your retirement plan as well?


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

DBA said:


> He lists all the reasons why he had no advantage from this skin color and then you respond with this nonsense. Being white is of very little consequence positively or negatively in this country. How a person acts and the choices they make in life dwarfs skin color. The problem with many is that they spend more time belly aching about how they didn’t get hired and can’t succeed because of their skin color and don’t bother to invest in their time an effort into making good choices.



Oh, bullshit.  Being white means you are more likely to get a job, more likely to be treated civilly by police, and the list goes on. 



DBA said:


> Except the average salary of Republicans is higher, particularly outside of large urban centers. As I have stated before, union garbage collectors in large cities can make as much as a mid-level engineer in middle America. Those Democrats skews the salary ranges a bit, but not many would argue which one of these is likely the “dumb” one.



Not really...   In fact, the divide is pretty even across all income brackets...  






But it is kind of funny you make a point about garbage collectors...  One of the kids I grew up with works for the City as a garbage collector and makes a salary of $72,000.  And because he sits in his garbage truck all day listening to hate radio, he repeats whatever Rush or Hannity said like he had an original thought.   When I pointed out to him that the ONLY reason why he makes good money with no college and limited skills, is because a Democrat thought he should be well-compensated for doing a truly unpleasant job.  He wasn't happy to hear that..   Then I pointed out what garbagemen are paid out here in the Republican Suburbs where I lived at the time.  Yup.  they make $15.00 an hour working for a private company.  




DBA said:


> LOL…No, the blue areas in those parts of the country may be more miserable. The red areas in those parts have it MUCH better than most Democratic areas in large urban Democratic areas.



Sigh. I'd rather live in a Northern city than a southern trailer park, Cleetus


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 15, 2022)

DBA said:


> He lists all the reasons why he had no advantage from this skin color and then you respond with this nonsense.  Being white is of very little consequence positively or negatively in this country. How a person acts and the choices they make in life dwarfs skin color.  The problem with many is that they spend more time belly aching about how they didn’t get hired and can’t succeed because of their skin color and don’t bother to invest in their time an effort into making good choices.


I didn’t read what the hypocritical antisemite you responded to said, but it’s obvious: he is still blaming the poorer outcomes of blacks on racism, and going on about how whites benefitted by skin color. As I’ve pointed out repeatedly, blacks who remain mired in the ghetto could get out in a single generation by two easy steps. This continued insistence on blaming their skin color, rather than their own actions, is why they remain stuck where they are. Whites are enabling that, because the more self-sufficient poor blacks become, and start contributing to society rather than taking, the less likely they are to vote for Dems.




DBA said:


> Except the average salary of Republicans is higher, particularly outside of large urban centers.  As I have stated before, union garbage collectors in large cities can make as much as a mid-level engineer in middle America. Those Democrats skew the salary ranges a bit, but not many would argue which one of these is likely the “dumb” one.


Also true. Garbage collectors (called “sanitation engineers” by liberals) can earn well over $100,000 a year in NYC - similar to what an engineer who made it through a demanding, complex educational program makes in mid-career. This skews the average income among uneducated Democrats higher, but even so, Republicans earn more.


DBA said:


> LOL…No, the blue areas in those parts of the country may be more miserable. The red areas in those parts have it MUCH better than most Democratic areas in large urban Democratic areas.


Yup. That‘s the classic lie by the Dems. They ignore that the dense population centers - Baltimore, St. Louis, Detroit, NYC, Chicago, etc. - are all run by Democrat losers, and the cities are a hotbed of crime and poverty. Poor rural people living in small rundown houses have a better lifestyle than poor inner-city people dodging bullets.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

DBA said:


> Believing you and this world just happened to come to be from trillions of extremely fortunate yet random events is the epitome of stupidity. Is winning the lottery several weeks in a row your retirement plan as well?



Again, if I were playing the lottery for BILLIONS of years, I will come up a winner eventually.  The problem with your statement is that these random events happen over billions of years.  

But let's assume there is a higher power rigging the game for 14 billion years so that 1/4th of the population of one planet could worship him.  That seems like a lot of effort for very little reward.  

I mean, imagine you are Jehovah, you go through all these efforts to make the world, and for most of history, people are worshipping Zeus, Odin, Krishna, Allah, Amaterasu, etc. etc.  Worship of the Christian God has only been the top religion for the last 500 years thanks to imperialism. 

Heck, my biggest worry... Finding out that the Shintos had it right and Amaterasu wants to have a word with me about my Asian chick fetish.  




*Seriously, she looks pissed. *

To make my point, there are hundreds of Gods you don't believe in. 

I just believe in one less.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 15, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> His hypocrisy is what irks me more, and it reveals itself in many ways. The two most glaring are:
> 
> 1. He blames you for being on “welfare,“ when it is of course disability after a lifetime of work, and yet defends blacks on welfare and would screech raaaacist at anyone who complained about it.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I put up with it for a while but now it's getting old.  Who wants to read the same shit over and over and over again for two and a half years.  I can't imagine being so Fd up in the head that I'd be obsessed about somebody else's life on the internet for that long.  I'll give a person advice but if they won't take it, I have my own problems to deal with yet alone theirs.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 15, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> This is true. I remember decades ago when I thought the comment “there goes the neighborhood” was racist, but I’ve come to see that it is true, depending on the SES of the neighborhood.
> 
> In affluent neighborhoods, where houses cost $800,000 to a million and more, with large yards tended to by landscapers, the value is not impacted by blacks who move in. These blacks are educated professionals earning good money.
> 
> Where it DOES lower the neighborhood is in the modest, working class neighborhoods, where parents take pride that they were able to afford a little house, and they are out every weekend trimming weeds, painting chipped paint around the window sill, whatever. When poorer blacks move into these neighborhoods, the values do go down. I’ve witnessed it myself.



But if government decides to move lowlifes into those neighborhoods with 800K houses, those homes will lose value as well.  That's what they did with middle-class neighborhoods.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 15, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yeah, I put up with it for a while but now it's getting old.  Who wants to read the same shit over and over and over again for two and a half years.  I can't imagine being so Fd up in the head that I'd be obsessed about somebody else's life on the internet for that long.  I'll give a person advice but if they won't take it, I have my own problems to deal with yet alone theirs.


I find that leftists so enamored of their own moral superiority, as they see it of course, is that they become fixated on people who won’t submit to their harmful, leftist attitudes. Beyond that, of course, is that they don’t recognize their own hypocrisy, but that is a sign of a narcissist - can’t recognize that anything they do or say could be wrong, so they lash out others who bring it to the forefront. It’s called “narcissistic rage,” and I’ve been on the receiving end of it myself by some of these holier-than-though leftists.

In fact, ever notice how they pick names for themselves that just screech “better than others”? The Forward Party, progressives, etc?


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I didn’t read what the hypocritical antisemite you responded to said, but it’s obvious: he is still blaming the poorer outcomes of blacks on racism, and going on about how whites benefitted by skin color. As I’ve pointed out repeatedly, blacks who remain mired in the ghetto could get out in a single generation by two easy steps. This continued insistence on blaming their skin color, rather than their own actions, is why they remain stuck where they are. Whites are enabling that, because the more self-sufficient poor blacks become, and start contributing to society rather than taking, the less likely they are to vote for Dems.



Um, yeah... check this out.  Young black man goes to college, and gets a commission in the US Army, and he gets treated like THIS. 


The reality is that if people voted their economic interests, they'd vote Democratic by 80-20. Only 20% of the country makes enough money to really rationalize voting Republican.  If it weren't for playing on the racial, religious and sexual fears of working class white people, 

Why do you think we are suddenly in this HUGE panic about "Groomers" and Critical Race Theory?  Because if you guys didn't have fake moral panics, you'd be running on, "We want you to work harder for less money."  Even the dumbest white trash wouldn't fall for that.  



Lisa558 said:


> Also true. Garbage collectors (called “sanitation engineers” by liberals) can earn well over $100,000 a year in NYC - similar to what an engineer who made it through a demanding, complex educational program makes in mid-career. This skews the average income among uneducated Democrats higher, but even so, Republicans earn more.



Uh, you couldn't pay me $100,000 to pick up garbage and drive a garbage truck. It's a fucking unpleasant job, and the people who do it SHOULD be compensated well.   Calling them engineers is kind of silly, but then again, "title inflation" is another way the One Percent try to sweet-talk you while screwing you.  



Lisa558 said:


> Yup. That‘s the classic lie by the Dems. They ignore that the dense population centers - Baltimore, St. Louis, Detroit, NYC, Chicago, etc. - are all run by Democrat losers, and the cities are a hotbed of crime and poverty. Poor rural people living in small rundown houses have a better lifestyle than poor inner-city people dodging bullets.



Well, no, they really don't.  That's the point.  The entire country is getting poorer because the GOP has been dismantling the New Deal since Ronald Reagan.  You see, used to be those inner cities and rural communities were pretty nice places to live because the wealth was distributed evenly.  

Now the rich have gotten richer, the poor have gotten poorer... and you are fine with it.


----------



## Moonglow (Apr 15, 2022)

Poverty is a state of mind. I was born with nothing and worked my way up to a state of poverty.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 15, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> But if government decides to move lowlifes into those neighborhoods with 800K houses, those homes will lose value as well.  That's what they did with middle-class neighborhoods.


Well I fear that is what they plan to do. The Dems have already said that it’s better for poor people to have them live among the affluent. Of course, it’s worse for the affluent - especially what happens to the schools - but Dems don’t care about that. In fact, they WANT to bring the affluent down because…..equity.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> But if government decides to move lowlifes into those neighborhoods with 800K houses, those homes will lose value as well. That's what they did with middle-class neighborhoods.



Actually, the town I just moved out of, has million dollar houses.   And in the Condo Complex that they just converted, they had Section 8 families... less than a mile from each other. 

The reason your town turned into a slum was because the economic opportunties in Cleveland dried up.   Nothing more, nothing less.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 15, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I find that leftists so enamored of their own moral superiority, as they see it of course, is that they become fixated on people who won’t submit to their harmful, leftist attitudes. Beyond that, of course, is that they don’t recognize their own hypocrisy, but that is a sign of a narcissist - can’t recognize that anything they do or say could be wrong, so they lash out others who bring it to the forefront. It’s called “narcissistic rage,” and I’ve been on the receiving end of it myself by some of these holier-than-though leftists.
> 
> In fact, ever notice how they pick names for themselves that just screech “better than others”? The Forward Party, progressives, etc?



I've always said that liberals have the mentality of a child.  For instance your son thinks he's Spider Man.  You show him there is no such thing as a Spider Man, but he insists he is in spite of the evidence you show him.  It's how children think.  You can't have an intelligent debate with somebody like that.  

So they believe when a man thinks he's a woman, it's God that screwed up, not the guy who thinks he's a woman.  Instead of realizing the problem is in the mind, they think the mind is fine.  It's the body that's the problem so change that instead.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Well I fear that is what they plan to do. The Dems have already said that it’s better for poor people to have them live among the affluent. Of course, it’s worse for the affluent - especially what happens to the schools - but Dems don’t care about that. In fact, they WANT to bring the affluent down because…..equity.



Well, you pee yourself when you see a mere PICTURE of a black person at a mall.  I imagine we'd need a hazmat crew to come in if you met one in person.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I've always said that liberals have the mentality of a child. For instance your son thinks he's Spider Man. You show him there is no such thing as a Spider Man, but he insists he is in spite of the evidence you show him. It's how children think. You can't have an intelligent debate with somebody like that.
> 
> So they believe when a man thinks he's a woman, it's God that screwed up, not the guy who thinks he's a woman. Instead of realizing the problem is in the mind, they think the mind is fine. It's the body that's the problem so change that instead.



How come you can't tell me why Transsexualities are bad without comparing it to something like dogs or Spiderman? 

If a person thinks they are a different gender, how does that effect your life?


----------



## DBA (Apr 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Oh, bullshit. Being white means you are more likely to get a job, more likely to be treated civilly by police, and the list goes on.



Wrong, but obviously it makes you feel better to think otherwise. It soothes your indoctrinated inner soul.



JoeB131 said:


> Sigh. I'd rather live in a Northern city than a southern trailer park,



Yeah, that is all we have down here. Zillow much?



JoeB131 said:


> When I pointed out to him that the ONLY reason why he makes good money with no college and limited skills, is because a Democrat thought he should be well-compensated for doing a truly unpleasant job. He wasn't happy to hear that.. Then I pointed out what garbagemen are paid out here in the Republican Suburbs where I lived at the time. Yup. they make $15.00 an hour working for a private company.



Do you think he SHOULD make as much as a mid-level engineer in middle America?  I mean that is the real problem.  In reality, we shouldn’t pay a burger flipper or a garbage man the same or close to as much as an engineer. The idea that we should is the problem with the Democratic Party platform and with Democrats in general.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 15, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Well I fear that is what they plan to do. The Dems have already said that it’s better for poor people to have them live among the affluent. Of course, it’s worse for the affluent - especially what happens to the schools - but Dems don’t care about that. In fact, they WANT to bring the affluent down because…..equity.



The definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results.  The evidence is clear that when you move lowlifes into nice areas, they simply destroy them.  I've seen that first hand here, where I was born, and where I grew up.  All great areas at one time.


----------



## DBA (Apr 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> If a person thinks they are a different gender, how does that effect your life?



In my case, I don’t care what they think, but don’t expect me to make special accommodations for their delusions nor should my government make special accommodations. They can think whatever they would like, but when it comes to checking male or female in a box or competing in male or female sports, their delusions should not be taken into consideration.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yeah, I put up with it for a while but now it's getting old. Who wants to read the same shit over and over and over again for two and a half years. I can't imagine being so Fd up in the head that I'd be obsessed about somebody else's life on the internet for that long. I'll give a person advice but if they won't take it, I have my own problems to deal with yet alone theirs.



You could try to not be such a misanthrope, but I doubt you can... 

I just find it hilarious that you are giving ANYONE advice when your own life is such a fucking mess.


----------



## DBA (Apr 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Um, yeah... check this out.  Young black man goes to college, and gets a commission in the US Army, and he gets treated like THIS.



And of course the ONLY reason this happened was because he was black, right? It couldn’t have been that he resisted arrest, or that he ran, or that the cop just made a bad decision. I mean, if this guys was white and did the exact same thing, there is no way this cop would have reacted the same, right?


----------



## berg80 (Apr 15, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The reason for poverty among blacks who remain poor (most are working class or above) is the same reason that whites in poverty remain poor. It is due to having babies while still in one’s teens, without a husband, and often without completing high school as a result.


That's in the running for dumbest post of the day by a right winger. But the day is young and there's lots of competition.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

DBA said:


> Wrong, but obviously it makes you feel better to think otherwise. It soothes your indoctrinated inner soul.



Again, I was more right wing than you are until 2008.  Then I got my first real taste of what discrimination was like, when my young punk boss decided that he was going to fuck over my career because I had medical issues and was "too old" (He actually said that.)

Now, I've always been fair minded on matters of race, and tried to put my concerns about the subtle racism of a Bush to the side. (As opposed to the blatant racism of Trump). But actually getting to experience discrimination was kind of an eye-opener for me.  



DBA said:


> Yeah, that is all we have down here. Zillow much?



Nope, just visited Jesusland on business and military assignments... you are still a third world country.  



DBA said:


> Do you think he SHOULD make as much as a mid-level engineer in middle America? I mean that is the real problem. In reality, we shouldn’t pay a burger flipper or a garbage man the same or close to as much as an engineer. The idea that we should is the problem with the Democratic Party platform and with Democrats in general.



Why not?  Anyone who does a drudge job SHOULD get paid a living wage, period.   Frankly, being an engineer, or for that matter, a procurement professional, is a pretty sweet job. Very little physical labor, you get to work in pleasant surroundings.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

DBA said:


> And of course the ONLY reason this happened was because he was black, right? It couldn’t have been that he resisted arrest, or that he ran, or that the cop just made a bad decision. I mean, if this guys was white and did the exact same thing, there is no way this cop would have reacted the same, right?



Actually, um, no...  there was no real excuse for the cops doing this, but apparently he thought this was the appropriate way to treat a person of color, even though he was calm throughout the encounter and the cops were screaming like maniacs.


----------



## berg80 (Apr 15, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I've always said that liberals have the mentality of a child.


It takes someone with the mentality of a child to say that.


----------



## DBA (Apr 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, um, no...  there was no real excuse for the cops doing this, but apparently he thought this was the appropriate way to treat a person of color, even though he was calm throughout the encounter and the cops were screaming like maniacs.



There is absolutely ZERO evidence that I am aware of that this cop’s reaction had anything to do with the guys skin color. That is you and your kind projecting.


----------



## DBA (Apr 15, 2022)

berg80 said:


> It takes someone with the mentality of a child to say that.



No,  just someone who is observant.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

DBA said:


> In my case, I don’t care what they think, but don’t expect me to make special accommodations for their delusions nor should my government make special accommodations. They can think whatever they would like, but when it comes to checking male or female in a box or competing in male or female sports, their delusions should not be taken into consideration.



Why not?  

Frankly, we make accommodations all the time.  Frankly, I don't tell every God-botherer I encounter on the street that their beliefs are stupid. It's called common courtesy. (This board is another matter).  I actually respect your right to have a delusion there's a magic fairy in the sky that loves you.   

It's really no skin off your nose if someone checks "Female" on a box if they think they are female.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

DBA said:


> There is absolutely ZERO evidence that I am aware of that this cop’s reaction had anything to do with the guys skin color. That is you and your kind projecting.



You mean other than they screamed maniacally at him and assaulted him with pepper spray for a simple traffic infraction, even though they could clearly see he was a member of the armed forces?


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 15, 2022)

berg80 said:


> That's in the running for dumbest post of the day by a right winger. But the day is young and there's lots of competition.


Unbelievable. You left wingers are so desperate to keep the black underclass poor and dependent (and voting for Dems) that you deny the obvious reason how they can move beyond it (worse….call anyone who points it out dumb).Simply:

1. Staying in school
2. Not having babies when you’re a kid yourself and can’t afford them

How do you think a big mass of uneducated, impoverished Jews arrived on these shores a century ago, and within a single generation, their kids were all middle class? By doing the above, at a minimum.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> You could try to not be such a misanthrope, but I doubt you can...
> 
> I just find it hilarious that you are giving ANYONE advice when your own life is such a fucking mess.


And you could try not to be such an antisemite, but I doubt you can…

(The hypocrisy among these leftists is surreal.)


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 15, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> This is a classic case of "Blaming the Victim."
> 
> We're not going to discuss how a Black person of equal qualifications is less likely to be hired for good opportunities...
> Nor will we discuss how people with "Black sounding names" don't even get interviews despite their qualifications...
> ...


So should we discuss how blacks of LESSER qualifications are more likely to get into the Ivy League, or med school, or law school, than whites with BETTER qualifications?

Cry me a River. Blacks have been getting favored in admissions and hiring for decades now. I personally knew of two whites (they have died of old age since then, so it tells you how long it was going on) who sued because a much less qualified black got the promotion they went for, and guess what? They both won their cases.

Most whites don‘t sue when the racist liberals go agaisnt them, though. Too much time and effort that could be spent simply finding a job in a company NOT run by liberals. Then whites have a fair chance.


----------



## Turtlesoup (Apr 15, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> This is a classic case of "Blaming the Victim."
> 
> We're not going to discuss how a Black person of equal qualifications is less likely to be hired for good opportunities...
> Nor will we discuss how people with "Black sounding names" don't even get interviews despite their qualifications...
> ...


Oh stop with the fucking stupid excuse making.

Corporations because of lawsuits over blacks not being hired trip over themselves to hire any blacks even mildly qualified for a job to boost their race quotas.  Far less is expected and required of blacks because of this.

The issues with blacks is that most expect the government to take care of them, so why work when they are used to the government subsidizing them.  Many have absolutely no clue or moral compunction to EARN what you get which drives workers to be great workers.  Which btw, also leads to no work ethic--no desire to work at work, to desire to show up on time, unreliable for even showing up for work, no desire to put in the extra effort that is required to get promoted that others most do  in order to be promoted.

Then you have the ones who think everyone owes them---so they they carry this attitude to work and make all co-workers miserable, ignore their bosses, and piss off customers.

Then you have higher incidents of crimes which employers frown upon.  Who wants a criminal and how are you supposed to pass a background check with a criminal history that creates a liability for the company. 

Higher levels of single households which make it harder to raise kids by the women who have kids which causes work to suffer while the males often don't even stick around to raise their kids carry this ethic over to the work place -----and take no responsibility.  Married males (and women) are seen as more realiable and thusly better workers than unmarried especially where kids are involved.  A guy who doesn't even support and take care of his kids---is usually a shit employee as well.  

Then you have iq/education.  If you can't or barely can speak english (ebonics doesn't count) due to being stupid, uneducated, or having a drug tongue---do you really think someone should hire you?

However, if you are black with a work ethic and any skills--most companies will hire, will give raises, and quickly promote in order to retain and to boost their own race quotas.   But the key is having a work ethic, no criminal record, and some basic skills----

Hint---blacks from the military are sought after by corporations because of this--so if you are a poor black--stay out trouble with the law, join the military (which promotes based on miniority status as well), work at all in the military, get promoted, get out and seek corporate management---you will be high demand even if you are a complete idiot and undeserving.


----------



## Unkotare (Apr 15, 2022)

Unkotare said:


> Wow, black Americans sure are lucky to have such generous white folks to tell them exactly what their problems are and exactly how they should live. You know, because all black people are exactly the same and have exactly the same life experiences. And of course, absurdly presumptuous and self-important old white ladies know everything about the life of every black American in the country and exactly what they need to do to "fix" themselves. True heroes.


^^^^^


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Unbelievable. You left wingers are so desperate to keep the black underclass poor and dependent (and voting for Dems) that you deny the obvious reason how they can move beyond it (worse….call anyone who points it out dumb).Simply:
> 
> 1. Staying in school
> 2. Not having babies when you’re a kid yourself and can’t afford them



That would be awesome if you guys didn't try to cut funding to Planned Parenthood in poor neighborhoods to appease white Christians who don't like abortion.

The reality is that Teen Pregnancy has declined by 75% since the 1950's, but black people still live in grinding poverty.  



Lisa558 said:


> How do you think a big mass of uneducated, impoverished Jews arrived on these shores a century ago, and within a single generation, their kids were all middle class? By doing the above, at a minimum.



Well, very simple.  They were "White Enough".   We've been over this. 

True, in Europe, what Sky Fairy you worshipped WAS a big deal, but America, not so much.   While Jews, Catholics, Germans, Irish, Italians, Poles all encountered some prejudice from the dominant WASP establishment, within a generation you learned English, gave up much of your culture, and were allowed to intermarry.   I am half German.  My other half is Irish, English, Dutch and Native American.   Essentially, in a generation, my family had assimilated.  All it took was acting less German and more American. 

Blacks, on the other hand, were never allowed to assimilate until this very day.  Within my lifetime, it was STILL a crime for a black person to marry a white person in some parts of this country.   Just because those laws were off the books,



Lisa558 said:


> And you could try not to be such an antisemite, but I doubt you can…



Your religion doesn't become less stupid because I'm being nicer to you.


----------



## Unkotare (Apr 15, 2022)

Bloodthirsty democrat hypocrites don't like it when anything gets in the way of their killing of minority babies. Planned Genocide is a big part of their long-term goals for America's inner cities.


----------



## Death Angel (Apr 15, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The reason for poverty among blacks who remain poor (most are working class or above) is the same reason that whites in poverty remain poor. It is due to having babies while still in one’s teens, without a husband, and often without completing high school as a result.
> 
> Anyone can break free of poverty by doing the following, at a minimum:
> 
> ...


A culture of poverty.  Until THEY change that, they won't change


----------



## BrokeLoser (Apr 15, 2022)

Unkotare said:


> Wow, black Americans sure are lucky to have such generous white folks to tell them exactly what their problems are and exactly how they should live. You know, because all black people are exactly the same and have exactly the same life experiences. And of course, absurdly presumptuous and self-important old white ladies know everything about the life of every black American in the country and exactly what they need to do to "fix" themselves. True heroes.


Translation / LefTard Logic:
”Let dark people behave the way they do….don’t you dare even think about acknowledging their uncivilized / third-world traits, don’t dare point out that as a collective they ALWAYS destroy communities, cities, states and nations….You must keep your head in your ass, you must pretend that dark people as a collective are not societies greatest liability, you must pretend they are our greatest asset…should you have the balls to address the elephant in the room, the facts, the data you will be promptly shouted down and labeled a RACIST.”


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

Unkotare said:


> Bloodthirsty democrat hypocrites don't like it when anything gets in the way of their killing of minority babies. Planned Genocide is a big part of their long-term goals for America's inner cities.



Oh, you're one of those... the kind who thinks they can tell a woman what she can do with her own body.  

Here's the reality- we've always had abortion, because women want to have sex without being pregnant.  

The choice isn't between abortions and babies, it's between safe abortions and unsafe ones.  

One only need to look at the Philippines, a much more devout and religious country than this one, where abortion is illegal in all cases except a threat to the mother's life. 

And it is estimated that Filipinas have 500K to 800K abortions a year.  Almost as many as the United States with a third of our population. 

You want to get to less abortions, fine.  

Then support family planning services, contraception, sex education, etc.   Allow for paid family leave and single payer health care so a woman isn't having to choose between a $3000 live birth she can't afford and a $300.00 abortion she might be able to scrape together the money for.


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 15, 2022)

bripat9643 said:


> Where has it been established that Poc have fewer opportunities to succeed?  If anything, the have more opportunities.  There are all kinds of scholarship designated specifically for PoC.  There are also AA quotas at many universities, government jobs and private corporations.
> 
> So advising them not to get pregnant before they get married is a racist plot?


Try reading.
It's all there for those who can read.
Still, for the very stupid, like you?
Never mind.


----------



## bripat9643 (Apr 15, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> Try reading.
> It's all there for those who can read.
> Still, for the very stupid, like you?
> Never mind.


I read your dumbass article.  It doesn't say.  That's why I'm asking you.


----------



## BrokeLoser (Apr 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Here's the reality- we've always had abortion, because women want to have sex without being pregnant.


All good, decent responsible people are able to do that without killing babies…why can’t liberal whores?


JoeB131 said:


> You want to get to less abortions, fine.
> 
> Then support family planning services, contraception, sex education, etc. Allow for paid family leave and single payer health care so a woman isn't having to choose between a $3000 live birth she can't afford and a $300.00 abortion she might be able to scrape together the money for.


Yeah yeah….it’s the fault of good people that disgusting fucked in the head liberal whores can’t learn to fuck responsibly. hahaha


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

BrokeLoser said:


> All good, decent responsible people are able to do that without killing babies…why can’t liberal whores?



Actually, the one person I got to know well who chose abortion was a very religious, Asian-American girl who stopped taking birth control to get her boyfriend to marry her, and when he wouldn't, got an abortion so her parents wouldn't know she wasn't still a virgin at 22.  

"Liberal Whores" as you say, usually know how to use contraception properly.  



BrokeLoser said:


> Yeah yeah….it’s the fault of good people that disgusting fucked in the head liberal whores can’t learn to fuck responsibly. hahaha



Nobody is asking you to do anything...  you've decided to make this society, now you kind of need to learn to mind your own business.


----------



## Unkotare (Apr 15, 2022)

BrokeLoser said:


> ...
> ”Let dark people behave the way they do….....”


Only "dark people," racist coward?


----------



## BrokeLoser (Apr 15, 2022)

Unkotare said:


> Only "dark people," racist coward?


Don’t be a predictable pussy…address the entire context of the post or don’t address it at all hacker.


----------



## Unkotare (Apr 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Oh, you're one of those... the kind who thinks they can tell a woman what she can do with her own body.
> ....


NO, I'm one of those who thinks we _all_ shouldn't let anyone do what they can do to another human body when it inevitably leads to the death of an innocent.


----------



## BrokeLoser (Apr 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, the one person I got to know well who chose abortion was a very religious, Asian-American girl who stopped taking birth control to get her boyfriend to marry her, and when he wouldn't, got an abortion so her parents wouldn't know she wasn't still a virgin at 22.


Hahaha…the ole’ LefTard Logic….”I know this ONE person, this ONE case, therefore I’ll pretend such case is the rule and not the exception.”


----------



## Unkotare (Apr 15, 2022)

BrokeLoser said:


> Don’t be a predictable pussy….


Don't be afraid of everyone in the world who doesn't look exactly like your mommy, loser. I'm sure the world is scary for weaklings like you, but that doesn't excuse your stupidity.


----------



## Unkotare (Apr 15, 2022)

BrokeLoser said:


> ...”I know this ONE person, this ONE case, therefore I’ll pretend such case is the rule and not the exception.”


Which is _exactly _what idiots like YOU do here ALL THE TIME. You and joebigot are EXACTLY the same in so many reprehensible ways.


----------



## Paleman (Apr 15, 2022)

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> You have no understanding of US History or policy if you think it is not racism.
> 
> Just a 10 minute read of the Tulsa town bombings and Emmitt Till’a murder teaches you all you need to know.
> 
> ...


All of that occurred generations ago. You have just made it clear that blacks are unable to take advantage of the special treatment offered today and advance on their own. Blacks and only Blacks are responsible for their current lack of prosperity..


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

Unkotare said:


> NO, I'm one of those who thinks we _all_ shouldn't let anyone do what they can do to another human body when it inevitably leads to the death of an innocent.



That's nice.  Leaving aside your fantasies about globs of tissue having more rights than the women they are inside, how would you actually enforce it? 

We have 800,000 abortions and probably about 400K miscarriages.   You will have to investigate them ALL as potential homicides.   

Keep in mind, that right now, we have 19,000 homicides a year of actual people, and only 65% them are cleared.  





BrokeLoser said:


> Hahaha…the ole’ LefTard Logic….”I know this ONE person, this ONE case, therefore I’ll pretend such case is the rule and not the exception.”



Or realize it's instructive.  

So let's see why this gal fucked up. 

1) She was involved with a guy who wasn't good for her.  
2) She didn't want her traditional parents to know she was sexually active 
3) She stopped using family planning in an attempt to manipulate him, and when that backfired, her Catholic Beliefs didn't mean all that much to her.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

Unkotare said:


> Which is _exactly _what idiots like YOU do here ALL THE TIME. You and joebigot are EXACTLY the same in so many reprehensible ways.


Go Troll somewhere else, Dripping Poop.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Apr 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Oh, you're one of those... the kind who thinks they can tell a woman what she can do with her own body.
> 
> Here's the reality- we've always had abortion, because women want to have sex without being pregnant.
> 
> ...


In other words, the entire society should be responsible for mindless fucking machines that can't control themselves.    Women are so lacking in impulse control that they must be treated like animals in heat.    As responsible animal guardians, society should go beyond merely disposing of unwanted litters.  Start a program of spay and neutering.  That really is the responsible thing to do.


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 15, 2022)

BrokeLoser said:


> Ofcourse there are racists….why wouldn’t there be? Have you seen the statistics related to the behavioral traits of various ethnic groups?
> The Kenyan elections were the most racist in American history….95% of voting blacks voted on skin color.


Thanks for proving my point.  RACIST


----------



## DBA (Apr 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> It's really no skin off your nose if someone checks "Female" on a box if they think they are female.



Then the entire point of asking someone's biological gender is nullified if we are going to let someone's delusions about their biological gender override reality. There are many cases where biological gender is important, but very few where psychological gender(what you think you are) has any relevance.  For example, imagine a person who believes they are a female checks female on a medical form.  Can he/she now go to a OBGYN for care? I guess yearly prostate exams are off the table now. Many medical diagnosis are very much dependent on biological gender.

A little common sense goes a long way, but leftist lost any common sense they may have had a LONG time ago.


----------



## DBA (Apr 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> You mean other than they screamed maniacally at him and assaulted him with pepper spray for a simple traffic infraction, even though they could clearly see he was a member of the armed forces?



And this was because he was black? I see.


----------



## DBA (Apr 15, 2022)

berg80 said:


> That's in the running for dumbest post of the day by a right winger. But the day is young and there's lots of competition.



What don't you understand about this and why don't you think it is the case. Statistics say otherwise.


----------



## DBA (Apr 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, um, no...  there was no real excuse for the cops doing this, but apparently he thought this was the appropriate way to treat a person of color, even though he was calm throughout the encounter and the cops were screaming like maniacs.



More and more assumptions to feed your indoctrinated soul.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

EvilCat Breath said:


> In other words, the entire society should be responsible for mindless fucking machines that can't control themselves. Women are so lacking in impulse control that they must be treated like animals in heat. As responsible animal guardians, society should go beyond merely disposing of unwanted litters. Start a program of spay and neutering. That really is the responsible thing to do.



You first.


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 15, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> And now (as the late Paul Harvey used to say) the rest of the story.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you want to give an opinion, give yours.
Some other  guy's racist opinion is proof of nothing besides the existence of fellow racists.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

DBA said:


> Then the entire point of asking someone's biological gender is nullified if we are going to let someone's delusions about their biological gender override reality. There are many cases where biological gender is important, but very few where psychological gender(what you think you are) has any relevance. For example, imagine a person who believes they are a female checks female on a medical form. Can he/she now go to a OBGYN for care? I guess yearly prostate exams are off the table now. Many medical diagnosis are very much dependent on biological gender.
> 
> A little common sense goes a long way, but leftist lost any common sense they may have had a LONG time ago.



First, any trans person is going to go to a provider who specializes, they aren't going to wander into a random OB/GYN.   So this was really the best you could come up with? Someone with 8 years of medical training MIGHT be confused by paperwork?  



DBA said:


> And this was because he was black? I see.



I didn't see a good reason for what they did.  



DBA said:


> More and more assumptions to feed your indoctrinated soul.



I see that you guys are more in denial than the Russian Defense ministry.   What, they didn't sink our ship, it blew up, yeah, that's the ticket. 

Racist cops pull over a black man and abuse him?  He must have done something wrong.


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 15, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The white population in the US as well as Europe is shrinking due to replacement rate.  Whites have less children than minorities mostly due to the expense of raising a child today.  I'm one of those guilty parties.  I never had any children for that reason.
> 
> If you see somebody more financially successful than you are, the best thing you can do is what they did.  We all would like everything we want, but sometimes you have to give up something if something else is more important to you.
> 
> For many middle-class white families, financial security is more important than large families.  My sister makes close to six figures a year, very religious, but only had two children.  She and her ex-husband sent them to private schools, college, and she's going to be paying off college loans until she retires.  She lives in a very nice house in a very nice suburban community, but she wouldn't be if she had three or four kids.


So....

You're saying that people of color should stop doing things that ID them as PoC so that White people won't be upset.
OK then.
I'll pass along your recommendation that People of Color turn White.
GEEZ!


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> And now (as the late Paul Harvey used to say) the rest of the story.
> 
> 
> 
> ...






Dadoalex said:


> If you want to give an opinion, give yours.
> Some other guy's racist opinion is proof of nothing besides the existence of fellow racists.




Actually, as a professional resume writer, I can tell you this article is bullshit.


_Here’s how the researchers (and their research assistants) conducted their study. First, they identified 108 Fortune 500 companies, with 125 entry-level jobs at each, and sent 8 fictitious resumes out for each (more or less; this would total to 108,000 but they only sent 83,000 applications altogether because some identified jobs were filled during the process). For each job, they sent four “black” and four “white” resumes; they also randomly varied the *age, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, and political leaning of the imaginary applicants*. They then measured the frequency with which the hiring employers contacted them, which was, on average, 24 percent._

Okay, so we are already deep into bullshit here.   There is no way you can tell from a resume what the sexual orientation, gender identity or political leaning of an applicant is.  As for age, the only way they can really guess your age is by finding what year you graduated College, assume it's at 22 and add that many years.  Most sharp resume writers don't include graduation year if it older than 15 years. 

Technically, there's no place for race, either, but the studies measured how often people with traditionally black names got called (Like Jamal or Lakeisha) vs. people with white names, like Greg or Emily. 

_In all of the above descriptions, however, I’ve skipped over how “race” is indicated in the resumes. Their method is not the same as their approach towards signaling sexual orientation or politics, that is, involvement in a “Black Students Association” or an “Irish Heritage Society.”_

Sounds to me like he didn't understand how the studies were conducted at all.  VERY FEW people list clubs they belong to, and generally, unless your resume writer was drunk, you don't include ones with a political, gender or racial/ethnic component. 

Here's the thing, and you have to kind of understand how resumes are read.  After the Applicant Tracking Software gets done sorting them, (And don't get me started on ATS Software), they are read by a real human in the HR department.

The HR Person looks at your name.  He looks at your last job and title.  He looks at the immediate pervious job and title.  Then he skips down to check to see if your education is a match to the requirement.  

If you put a club or an organization on the resume, it plain old didn't get read. 


He concludes that people with typical black names like "Jamal" are rejected, but then wonders if redneck names would also be excluded... 

_What are those names? The “black” first names include:  Aisha, Ebony, Keisha, Kenya, Lakeisha, Lashonda, Lawanda, Tamika, and Tomeka for women, and Antwan, Darnell, Jamal, Kareem, Marquis, Rasheed, Tremayne, and Tyrone for men.

The “white” first names included Allison, Amanda, Amy, Emily, Erin, Jennifer, Meredith, and Susan for women, and Adam, Brad, Geoffrey, Jason, Jeremy, Joshua, Nathan, Scott, and Todd for men.
Could researchers test stereotypically “redneck” or “white trash” names and see whether Brandy, Crystal, Daisy, Billy, Clyde, Earle, or Travis_

Okay, that's an easy one.  In my career, I've worked with a Brandi, a Clyde and a Travis.   I have not worked with anyone with the above mentioned black names.  In fact, the black people I've worked with - the few- have had white sounding names like Tracey and Cory. 

So this is more of the same "Let's pretend obvious racism isn't there."


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 15, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> So should we discuss how blacks of LESSER qualifications are more likely to get into the Ivy League, or med school, or law school, than whites with BETTER qualifications?
> 
> Cry me a River. Blacks have been getting favored in admissions and hiring for decades now. I personally knew of two whites (they have died of old age since then, so it tells you how long it was going on) who sued because a much less qualified black got the promotion they went for, and guess what? They both won their cases.
> 
> Most whites don‘t sue when the racist liberals go agaisnt them, though. Too much time and effort that could be spent simply finding a job in a company NOT run by liberals. Then whites have a fair chance.


Lesser qualifications?

Based on what?
That a White kid could get into a private school that excludes PoC?

Recruiting and setting aside some spaces for people of different backgrounds doesn't hurt White people BECAUSE the white kid has options that may not exist for others.

By ensuring that those who've earned get the opportunities they deserve we fight racism and poverty across multiple racial and generational fronts.

BUT
Since we've already demonstrated you are a racist we must take anything you say in they light.
So, RACIST, whine on about PoC getting opportunities because in your hate filled world, "THEY getting more means you get less."


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 15, 2022)

Turtlesoup said:


> Oh stop with the fucking stupid excuse making.
> 
> Corporations because of lawsuits over blacks not being hired trip over themselves to hire any blacks even mildly qualified for a job to boost their race quotas.  Far less is expected and required of blacks because of this.
> 
> ...


WOW!

It's not often we see such a detailed racist diatribe.
Thanks for showing us who you are.
We will remember.
RACIST


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, as a professional resume writer, I can tell you this article is bullshit.
> 
> 
> _Here’s how the researchers (and their research assistants) conducted their study. First, they identified 108 Fortune 500 companies, with 125 entry-level jobs at each, and sent 8 fictitious resumes out for each (more or less; this would total to 108,000 but they only sent 83,000 applications altogether because some identified jobs were filled during the process). For each job, they sent four “black” and four “white” resumes; they also randomly varied the *age, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, and political leaning of the imaginary applicants*. They then measured the frequency with which the hiring employers contacted them, which was, on average, 24 percent._
> ...


The studies are not BS.
They expose something very real in the workplace.
And that reality reinforces a "Blacks need not apply" mentality whether the intention is present or not.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> The studies are not BS.
> They expose something very real in the workplace.
> And that reality reinforces a "Blacks need not apply" mentality whether the intention is present or not.



Um, dude, I was agreeing with you.  The studies are valid.  

The attempt by the Federalist writer to "prove" there wasn't discrimination was just silly.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 15, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> Lesser qualifications?
> 
> Based on what?
> That a White kid could get into a private school that excludes PoC?
> ...


LESSER qualifications: much lower grades and test scores.

In your hate-filled racist world, racist policies punishing whites are not merely fine, but fought for. Blacks have been getting favored for 40 years, and most have moved into the middle class. As for the black underclass that hasn‘t taken advantage of the favoritism, time to stop blaming whitey….screech waaaacism!….. and take responsibilities for their own actions.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Apr 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> You first.


Done long ago.  What about you?  Why are you so against treating women responsibly


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 15, 2022)

Dadoalex 

You know what racism is? Liberals eliminating an admission test because the Asians do well and the blacks do much worse - with the express intent to get rid of better qualified Asians and swap them out for blacks.


----------



## DBA (Apr 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Again, I was more right wing than you are until 2008. Then I got my first real taste of what discrimination was like, when my young punk boss decided that he was going to fuck over my career because I had medical issues and was "too old" (He actually said that.)
> 
> Now, I've always been fair minded on matters of race, and tried to put my concerns about the subtle racism of a Bush to the side. (As opposed to the blatant racism of Trump). But actually getting to experience discrimination was kind of an eye-opener for me.



Wait, what? You mean you are white and you experienced discrimination? Shouldn't your "white privilege" have trumped everything? Weird, I guess there is actually more to things in life that race. Who would have thunk it?



JoeB131 said:


> Nope, just visited Jesusland on business and military assignments... you are still a third world country



I'll help you. Here are just a few from Southern states.  Don't just look at these, take a look around the areas. Real dumps huh? Trailer trash these people. I even chose some close to larger cities, which have some lefty bleed over into the suburbs.  I will not go to all the trouble, but as you get further way from the larger cities, the nicer areas are red, not blue. That is the case in *nearly *every state in the US, not just the South.

Real Estate - Madison, MS

Politics - Madison, MS

Real Estate - Braselton, GA

Politics - Braselton, GA

Real Estate - Weddington, NC

Politics - Weddington, NC
*Note*: The zip code for Weddington includes less affluent areas.  If you check out the interactive map, you will notice Weddington is solid red.

Real Estate - Hilton Head, SC

Politics - Hilton Head, SC

Real Estate - Nolensville, TN

Politics - Nolensville, TN

I didn't even count Florida nor other states considered Southern. You get the picture...well, you SHOULD get the picture but you won't.



JoeB131 said:


> Why not? Anyone who does a drudge job SHOULD get paid a living wage, period. Frankly, being an engineer, or for that matter, a procurement professional, is a pretty sweet job. Very little physical labor, you get to work in pleasant surroundings.



It is all about supply and demand.  Many people can dig ditches. Not as many can design an aircraft engine. If enough people decide that digging ditches is too hard for the money, the supply will decrease and the pay will increase. That is how it works.


----------



## DBA (Apr 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> That would be awesome if you guys didn't try to cut funding to Planned Parenthood in poor neighborhoods to appease white Christians who don't like abortion.
> 
> The reality is that Teen Pregnancy has declined by 75% since the 1950's, but black people still live in grinding poverty.
> 
> ...



Funny you act as if you know everything and yet are about as average as you can get on the success scale.  Ponder that for a moment.


----------



## DBA (Apr 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Racist cops pull over a black man and abuse him? He must have done something wrong.



Why are they racist? Oh I see, because you said so.  Maybe he was having a bad day and made a bad decision. What about all the white people that are killed by cops? You have absolutely no way of knowing that they would not have done exactly the same thing to a white guy if they had found that the tags on the car were not valid and then the guy proceeded to run and resist.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Apr 15, 2022)

The reason why so many blacks are not achieving is because they are married to slavery.  Slavery was their best days, no matter how bad it was.   All of their problems are caused by slavery.  They need it to excuse their reprehensible behavior.  Why did Frank James shoot ten people? Slavery.   Why are gangs destroying stores and stealing?  Slavery.  Why are blacks shooting black babies in their beds?  Slavery.   Without the panacea of slavery blacks would have to achieve or fail on their own.

The slave does not dream of freedom.  The slave dreams of being master.  So don't go interfering with dreams of being master.  It's all they have.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> LESSER qualifications: much lower grades and test scores.
> 
> In your hate-filled racist world, racist policies punishing whites are not merely fine, but fought for. Blacks have been getting favored for 40 years, and most have moved into the middle class. As for the black underclass that hasn‘t taken advantage of the favoritism, time to stop blaming whitey….screech waaaacism!….. and take responsibilities for their own actions.



Again, being white in this society is still an E-Ticket. 

So here's the issue.  If we had enough college desks for everyone to at least start college, and a bachelor's degree was considered equally valid, this wouldn't be a problem.  

Except what we have is a hierarchy of colleges, where some colleges perpetuate the privileges of the elite.  



Lisa558 said:


> You know what racism is? Liberals eliminating an admission test because the Asians do well and the blacks do much worse - with the express intent to get rid of better qualified Asians and swap them out for blacks.



Asians are only 3% of the population and are overrepresented in colleges.   "Wah, I had to go to State" isn't that big of an imposition.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

DBA said:


> Why are they racist? Oh I see, because you said so. Maybe he was having a bad day and made a bad decision. What about all the white people that are killed by cops? You have absolutely no way of knowing that they would not have done exactly the same thing to a white guy if they had found that the tags on the car were not valid and then the guy proceeded to run and resist.



Well, to start with, there were two cops there, and they were both out of control. I mean, Jesus Fucking Christ on a pogo stick, they pulled guns on him for a TRAFFIC STOP.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

EvilCat Breath said:


> The reason why so many blacks are not achieving is because they are married to slavery. Slavery was their best days, no matter how bad it was. All of their problems are caused by slavery. They need it to excuse their reprehensible behavior. Why did Frank James shoot ten people? Slavery. Why are gangs destroying stores and stealing? Slavery. Why are blacks shooting black babies in their beds? Slavery. Without the panacea of slavery blacks would have to achieve or fail on their own.
> 
> The slave does not dream of freedom. The slave dreams of being master. So don't go interfering with dreams of being master. It's all they have.



I don't think anyone said Frank James shot people because of slavery. 

For those playing along at home, Frank James was a mentally ill person who couldn't get medical treatment he needed, but COULD get a gun despite a record of petty crimes.  Maybe we should make it easier to get mental health treatment and harder to get guns.  I know, that's just crazy talk.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Apr 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> I don't think anyone said Frank James shot people because of slavery.
> 
> For those playing along at home, Frank James was a mentally ill person who couldn't get medical treatment he needed, but COULD get a gun despite a record of petty crimes.  Maybe we should make it easier to get mental health treatment and harder to get guns.  I know, that's just crazy talk.


Frank James and his kill whitey screed comes from we done him wrong slavery.  That's what burn loot murder runs on.  

We don't need mental health treatment.  We need the death penalty for career criminals.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Apr 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Well, to start with, there were two cops there, and they were both out of control. I mean, Jesus Fucking Christ on a pogo stick, they pulled guns on him for a TRAFFIC STOP.


Maybe he should not have tried to go for the cop's taser.


----------



## DBA (Apr 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Again, being white in this society is still an E-Ticket.



Except for you and the multitude of poor white people in this country. Being white evidently wasn't quite enough, indicating to a rational person that there is much more to it than that.



JoeB131 said:


> Asians are only 3% of the population and are overrepresented in colleges. "Wah, I had to go to State" isn't that big of an imposition.



They aren't over represented. They are appropriately or even under represented based on qualifications.  I don't hear you complaining that black people are over represented in the NBA. Why is that?


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

EvilCat Breath said:


> Frank James and his kill whitey screed comes from we done him wrong slavery. That's what burn loot murder runs on.
> 
> We don't need mental health treatment. We need the death penalty for career criminals.



Actually, most of his screeds were homophobic, kind of like yours.   

In his videos — which number in the hundreds and feature titles such as “why we need more racial profiling,” “should the black woman be forcibly sterilized,” and “TO KILL OR NOT TO KILL” — James often rails against numerous racial and ethnic groups, including whites, Blacks, Jews, and Latinos. He also compares people of color to “a bunch of turds in a toilet,” waiting to be “flushed” down the drain by society, and implies that a race war between whites and Blacks is imminent. In one video, he calls Sept. 11, 2001 “the most beautiful day in the history of this country.”

These are the people that was supposed to be helping me. They made me worse,” he says, gesturing to a computer screen opened to a photo file named “THEM HOSE,” which appears to display headshots of employees of New Jersey’s Bridgeway Behavioral Health Services — an organization James references in numerous videos. “They made me fucking worse. They made me more dangerous than I could ever — than anything, anyone could ever fucking imagine. These are the people that Eric Adams wants to send out to help the homeless and whatever the case may be. It ain’t gonna happen.”









						'They Made Me More Dangerous Than Anyone Could Ever F-cking Imagine'
					

Frank R. James, named as a suspect in the New York City subway shooting, left an online trail of hate




					www.rollingstone.com
				




SO this guy couldn't get mental health treatment, even though he knew he needed it, but he was able to get a gun. 

It's the REpublican way. 



EvilCat Breath said:


> Maybe he should not have tried to go for the cop's taser.



Which he didn't do.  In fact, he was sitting his car when the cop tried to pull him out and then gassed him.  



DBA said:


> Except for you and the multitude of poor white people in this country. Being white evidently wasn't quite enough, indicating to a rational person that there is much more to it than that.



Actually, I do fine despite how badly Republicans have fucked up things for the working class since Reagan.   My dad was a union guy for 30 years... and he enjoyed protections at work that I really don't... that's the thing I get worked up about.  



DBA said:


> They aren't over represented. They are appropriately or even under represented based on qualifications. I don't hear you complaining that black people are over represented in the NBA. Why is that?



Because at the end of the day, the NBA isn't just that important.  Only 2% of kids are going to get athletic scholarships, and only 2% of them will make it to the NBA, NFL, etc.  

Again, the real problem is these elite schools Karen558 complains about perpetuate the white power structure...  which is why we need more black representation in them.


----------



## sartre play (Apr 15, 2022)

DGS49 said:


> Ben Shapiro has prominently published the formula for "success" in America:
> 
> Stay in School (at least a HS diploma),
> Get a job - they are ubiquitous, and
> ...


interesting.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Apr 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, most of his screeds were homophobic, kind of like yours.
> 
> In his videos — which number in the hundreds and feature titles such as “why we need more racial profiling,” “should the black woman be forcibly sterilized,” and “TO KILL OR NOT TO KILL” — James often rails against numerous racial and ethnic groups, including whites, Blacks, Jews, and Latinos. He also compares people of color to “a bunch of turds in a toilet,” waiting to be “flushed” down the drain by society, and implies that a race war between whites and Blacks is imminent. In one video, he calls Sept. 11, 2001 “the most beautiful day in the history of this country.”
> 
> ...


To clarify, you want mentally ill and dangerous people to have more of the mental health treatment that made them worse.


----------



## sartre play (Apr 15, 2022)

The place where every one seems to get lost, follow one political party & everything will get fixed.
 Never has worked never will.
 Demanding competent people work together to find solutions.  COUNTRY OVER PARTY that is the solution.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 15, 2022)

DGS49 said:


> Ben Shapiro has prominently published the formula for "success" in America:
> 
> Stay in School (at least a HS diploma),
> Get a job - they are ubiquitous, and
> ...


What that speaks to is just how rare it is for children raised in a two-parent to be living in poverty - and how blacks could come close to eradicating poverty among themselves if they just didn’t have three out of every four babies born out of wedlock. Nothing to do with racism, but shhhhhhh……can’t recite the liberal myth.


----------



## Unkotare (Apr 15, 2022)

EvilCat Breath said:


> In other words, the entire society should be responsible for mindless fucking machines that can't control themselves.    Women are so lacking in impulse control that they must be treated like animals in heat.    As responsible animal guardians, society should go beyond merely disposing of unwanted litters.  Start a program of spay and neutering.  That really is the responsible thing to do.


If you don't see women as human beings, that is *your* very ridiculous problem.


----------



## DBA (Apr 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, most of his screeds were homophobic, kind of like yours.
> 
> In his videos — which number in the hundreds and feature titles such as “why we need more racial profiling,” “should the black woman be forcibly sterilized,” and “TO KILL OR NOT TO KILL” — James often rails against numerous racial and ethnic groups, including whites, Blacks, Jews, and Latinos. He also compares people of color to “a bunch of turds in a toilet,” waiting to be “flushed” down the drain by society, and implies that a race war between whites and Blacks is imminent. In one video, he calls Sept. 11, 2001 “the most beautiful day in the history of this country.”
> 
> ...



You simply aren't rational.  If you were ever a Republican, it took much more than getting screwed by a former employer to cause this much damage. Maybe the injury that caused your workplace insurance issue to begin with involved a big bonk on the head which knocked few screws loose.


----------



## bripat9643 (Apr 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Um, dude, I was agreeing with you.  The studies are valid.
> 
> The attempt by the Federalist writer to "prove" there wasn't discrimination was just silly.


Nothing produced by woke leftwing professors is valid.  It's all a con.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Apr 15, 2022)

Unkotare said:


> If you don't see women as human beings, that is *your* very ridiculous problem.


Teacher.
Says it all.


----------



## Unkotare (Apr 15, 2022)

EvilCat Breath said:


> Teacher.
> Says it all.


Meaning?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 15, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> What that speaks to is just how rare it is for children raised in a two-parent to be living in poverty - and how blacks could come close to eradicating poverty among themselves if they just didn’t have three out of every four babies born out of wedlock. Nothing to do with racism, but shhhhhhh……can’t recite the liberal myth.



Children living in poverty with a two-parent family can still do okay.  Between the choice I would rather see that than a well-to-do-single mother who can't handle the kids once they reach that age.  

The father figure is just as needed as the mother until kids get out of their early teen years.  Don't get me wrong, a lot of single-parents do fine, but it all depends on the kid.  My sister got a divorce before the kids hit that age.  The boy just about raised himself.  The girl was a terror and my sister had to be on her ass every minute of the day.  In a lot of cases her ex was there to reinforce my sister.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 15, 2022)

EvilCat Breath said:


> The reason why so many blacks are not achieving is because they are married to slavery.  Slavery was their best days, no matter how bad it was.   All of their problems are caused by slavery.  They need it to excuse their reprehensible behavior.  Why did Frank James shoot ten people? Slavery.   Why are gangs destroying stores and stealing?  Slavery.  Why are blacks shooting black babies in their beds?  Slavery.   Without the panacea of slavery blacks would have to achieve or fail on their own.
> 
> The slave does not dream of freedom.  The slave dreams of being master.  So don't go interfering with dreams of being master.  It's all they have.



The rhetoric he spewed comes directly from the Democrat party.  They don't care how much damage they do as long as they can keep blacks on the plantation for power.  Then you have their puppets reverberating everything the Democrat party says.  The media controls weak minds, and most Democrats do have a very weak mind.  









						CNN, MSNBC said ‘racist’ more than 4,100 times from July 14-21
					

CNN and MSNBC said the word “racist” more than 4,100 times from July 14-21, according to a tally by Grabien Media, an online media production and news prep service.The tally is based on…




					thehill.com


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 15, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> So....
> 
> You're saying that people of color should stop doing things that ID them as PoC so that White people won't be upset.
> OK then.
> ...



We were discussing poverty, weren't we?  The claim is how much better whites have it than minorities, right? 

So if minorities want to financially do better, do what white middle-class people do.  Don't be blaming this phony race crap because poverty has nothing to with race, it has to do with how you manage your life.  White people who have kids they can't afford do just as badly as black people who have kids they can't afford.  Again, the CDC estimates that it costs $233,000 per child in a middle-class family.  That's about a half-million dollars you need to come up with in the next 20 or so years if you want a two-child family. 

That's why once you have kids you can't afford, you'll never get off of government assistance until the kids turn into adults, and you'll live the rest of your life in poverty.  It's much better to use that money to learn a trade or career instead, and then consider having kids when you can afford them.


----------



## Mac-7 (Apr 15, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> So....
> 
> You're saying that people of color should stop doing things that ID them as PoC so that White people won't be upset.
> OK then.
> ...


There is no reason they should not act white

the White Way has been pretty successful for the past 2000 years


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 15, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> If you want to give an opinion, give yours.
> Some other  guy's racist opinion is proof of nothing besides the existence of fellow racists.



It's not an opinion, its a study just like yours.  The difference is my link tells you about the details your link doesn't.  There's always another side of the story.  

Company owners do have a favorite color, and that color is green.  The employees that make the most of the employers favorite color are his or her favorite employees.


----------



## koshergrl (Apr 15, 2022)

It just blows my mind that people today maintain that freedom of speech is a threat to humanity (but baby killing isn't), and that the color of your skin dictates your morality and your ability to achieve.

I miss the good old days.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 15, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> We were discussing poverty, weren't we?  The claim is how much better whites have it than minorities, right?
> 
> So if minorities want to financially do better, do what white middle-class people do.  Don't be blaming this phony race crap because poverty has nothing to with race, it has to do with how you manage your life.  White people who have kids they can't afford do just as badly as black people who have kids they can't afford.  Again, the CDC estimates that it costs $233,000 per child in a middle-class family.  That's about a half-million dollars you need to come up with in the next 20 or so years if you want a two-child family.
> 
> That's why once you have kids you can't afford, you'll never get off of government assistance until the kids turn into adults, and you'll live the rest of your life in poverty.  It's much better to use that money to learn a trade or career instead, and then consider having kids when you can afford them.


Absolutely true, but minorities - or blacks, since that is who we are talking about - will say they they can’t succeed if they merely do what white middle-class people do because…..racism (arguing in circles)….so, I would suggest that look to another minority that has also been oppressed, persecuted, expelled repeatedly, and murdered by the millions, and yet rose above it to move into the middle class, and in very short order as well. After losing their parents and siblings to Hitler, for example, this oppressed minority went from poverty to middle class, even affluence, in one single generation. This minority is….

The Jews!

And with that, I bid shalom for the evening as I head out for my Seder.


----------



## koshergrl (Apr 15, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Absolutely true, but minorities - or blacks, since that is who we are talking about - will say they they can’t succeed if they merely do what white middle-class people do because…..racism (arguing in circles)….so, I would suggest that look to another minority that has also been oppressed, persecuted, expelled repeatedly, and murdered by the millions, and yet rose above it to move into the middle class, and in very short order as well. After losing their parents and siblings to Hitler, for example, this oppressed minority went from poverty to middle class, even affluence, in one single generation. This minority is….
> 
> The Jews!
> 
> And with that, I bid shalom for the evening as I head out for my Seder.


Also American Asians, who are so successful that they are handicapped when they apply for college.

"Many Asian American students are immigrants themselves, or the children or grandchildren of immigrants. Our families generally came to the U.S. seeking greater opportunities, and they almost all faced high barriers to socioeconomic mobility. They worked hard and broke barriers, only to find their descendants punished by Harvard and other elite schools because of their success."








						Opinion: As an Asian American, I'm running the college admissions race with a handicap
					

This week's ruling in a lawsuit over Harvard's admissions practices hurts Asian Americans.




					www.latimes.com


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 15, 2022)

koshergrl said:


> Also American Asians, who are so successful that they are handicapped when they apply for college.


Yes, another perfect example. They will have their day in Court this term after Havard rejected them for having the wrong type of personality.

Shalom, all!


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 15, 2022)

DBA said:


> And of course the ONLY reason this happened was because he was black, right? It couldn’t have been that he resisted arrest, or that he ran, or that the cop just made a bad decision. I mean, if this guys was white and did the exact same thing, there is no way this cop would have reacted the same, right?



The guy had tinted windows.  It was pitch dark and the officers had no idea who the individual was or what race he was when they pulled out their guns and ordered him out of the vehicle.  They had no idea he was black until he stuck his hands out of the window.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

EvilCat Breath said:


> To clarify, you want mentally ill and dangerous people to have more of the mental health treatment that made them worse.



Um, no, it was the lack of care that was the problem there.  



DBA said:


> You simply aren't rational. If you were ever a Republican, it took much more than getting screwed by a former employer to cause this much damage. Maybe the injury that caused your workplace insurance issue to begin with involved a big bonk on the head which knocked few screws loose.



No, it was a realization of how badly Republicans have diminished my protections. 

In the last years of his life, my dad had a lot of health issues.  (He eventually succumbed to lung cancer).  If he didn't have a union AND if he had an asshole like my ex-boss, I'm pretty sure they'd have found an excuse to fire him despite his being a veteran, having five kids and running up a lot of medical bills.  

I couldn't even have a knee issue without running into problems.  THAT'S how badly Republicans have fucked it up for working people in this country. 

I know who my friends are, and I know who my enemies are.  If I want to live like a Republican, I need to vote for a Democrat.   Republicans have brought us every recession of my adult life, and I've taken a hit during every one of them. 

The main reason I don't vote Republican-  THEY FUCK IT UP. EVERY TIME.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> What that speaks to is just how rare it is for children raised in a two-parent to be living in poverty - and how blacks could come close to eradicating poverty among themselves if they just didn’t have three out of every four babies born out of wedlock. Nothing to do with racism, but shhhhhhh……can’t recite the liberal myth.



40% of all Americans are born out of wedlock.  They are fine.   France has an out of wedlock birth rate of 65%.  

You also repeat the lie that out of wedlock means fatherless.   









						The Myth of the Missing Black Father. | Fatherhood.gov
					

Statistics show that close to 70 percent of all births to black mothers are nonmarital, giving rise to the stereotype that black fathers are largely absent. However, while black fathers are less likely than white and Hispanic fathers to marry their child's mother, many black fathers continue to...




					www.fatherhood.gov


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The guy had tinted windows. It was pitch dark and the officers had no idea who the individual was or what race he was when they pulled out their guns and ordered him out of the vehicle. They had no idea he was black until he stuck his hands out of the window.



NO matter how egregious the behavior by a white cop, Welfare Ray will always find a way to excuse it.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 15, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Absolutely true, but minorities - or blacks, since that is who we are talking about - will say they they can’t succeed if they merely do what white middle-class people do because…..racism (arguing in circles)….so, I would suggest that look to another minority that has also been oppressed, persecuted, expelled repeatedly, and murdered by the millions, and yet rose above it to move into the middle class, and in very short order as well. After losing their parents and siblings to Hitler, for example, this oppressed minority went from poverty to middle class, even affluence, in one single generation. This minority is….



Completely irrelevant to anything happening in America.  For America's HORRIBLE history on race, she has a pretty good one on religion, meaning that no matter what crazy shit you believe, you will be tolerated and accepted.  And if you don't like any of the crazy religions being imported, no problem, we'll just make up our own like Mormonism!  

OF course, it was the rich Jews who got to America, the poor ones ended up at the camps...  Funny how that worked out.


----------



## monkrules (Apr 15, 2022)

Leviticus said:


> There were specific laws written to keep minorities poor.
> 
> For example, when the federal government started the original mortgage program, minorities were ineligible to receive loans, as were whites who lived in neighborhoods that had minority residents
> 
> This was designed to keep minorities out of the suburbs, where 90% of mortgages went


And you can provide proof of all this shit, of course...


----------



## DBA (Apr 16, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Completely irrelevant to anything happening in America.  For America's HORRIBLE history on race, she has a pretty good one on religion, meaning that no matter what crazy shit you believe, you will be tolerated and accepted.  And if you don't like any of the crazy religions being imported, no problem, we'll just make up our own like Mormonism!
> 
> OF course, it was the rich Jews who got to America, the poor ones ended up at the camps...  Funny how that worked out.



Are you attempting to say that black people are not tolerated and accepted?  You miss Lisa’s point all together. There are many other groups in this country who have been no more or less persecuted than black people in the last 40-50 years that have done quite well for themselves as a group.

It would behoove the African American community as a whole to emulate those other groups instead of a complaining about their supposed inequities.  The Democratic Party pushes this mentality that black can’t succeed because of inequities. With this mentality, the only way the community as a whole will “succeed“ is if they are gifted success via reparations, meaning ongoing monthly payments. The Democratic Party does a huge disservice the African American community.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The reason for poverty among blacks who remain poor (most are working class or above) is the same reason that whites in poverty remain poor. It is due to having babies while still in one’s teens, without a husband, and often without completing high school as a result.
> 
> Anyone can break free of poverty by doing the following, at a minimum:
> 
> ...


I will assume you are pro choice


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 16, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Completely irrelevant to anything happening in America.  For America's HORRIBLE history on race, she has a pretty good one on religion, meaning that no matter what crazy shit you believe, you will be tolerated and accepted.  And if you don't like any of the crazy religions being imported, no problem, we'll just make up our own like Mormonism!
> 
> OF course, it was the rich Jews who got to America, the poor ones ended up at the camps...  Funny how that worked out.


The antisemite is still speaking, I see…..

The rich Jews did not end up in America. We had a massive wave of poor, uneducated immigrants - whose children were all middle class by the next generation. 

You disgusting POS make all kinds of excuses for the blacks who remain impoverished due to their own choices, condemn people who point out the obvious truth as being racists, and then spew your Jew-hate all over this forum.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 16, 2022)

DBA said:


> Are you attempting to say that black people are not tolerated and accepted?  You miss Lisa’s point all together. There are many other groups in this country who have been no more or less persecuted than black people in the last 40-50 years that have done quite well for themselves as a group.
> 
> It would behoove the African American community as a whole to emulate those other groups instead of a complaining about their supposed inequities.  The Democratic Party pushes this mentality that black can’t succeed because of inequities. With this mentality, the only way the community as a whole will “succeed“ is if they are gifted success via reparations, meaning ongoing monthly payments. The Democratic Party does a huge disservice the African American community.


Absolutely! All the blacks have to do is emulate other persecuted groups - such as Jews and Asians - who arrive on these shores with nothing, and a generation later, their kids are all college graduates.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The antisemite is still speaking, I see…..
> 
> The rich Jews did not end up in America. We had a massive wave of poor, uneducated immigrants - whose children were all middle class by the next generation.
> 
> You disgusting POS make all kinds of excuses for the blacks who remain impoverished due to their own choices, condemn people who point out the obvious truth as being racists, and then spew your Jew-hate all over this forum.


And why is it do you think thst an entire race if people make bad choices


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Absolutely! All the blacks have to do is emulate other persecuted groups - such as Jews and Asians - who arrive on these shores with nothing, and a generation later, their kids are all college graduates.


You dont think racism exists?


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 16, 2022)

DBA said:


> Are you attempting to say that black people are not tolerated and accepted? You miss Lisa’s point all together. There are many other groups in this country who have been no more or less persecuted than black people in the last 40-50 years that have done quite well for themselves as a group.



The only group that can claim they've been more oppressed in America than blacks are Native Americans, because they were outright GENOCIDED.  

I was watching a very interesting historical vid yesterday about how after slavery ended, black people were routinely arrested on petty charges and then had their labor sold to financial interests in the  South.   This shit went on until the mid-20th century.   And we aren't talking crimes like murder and rape, we are talking crimes like "Riding the Railroad without a ticket."  


The problem is, you can't point to any one date and say, "that's the day black people started being treated fairly".  Because that date really hasn't happened yet.  



DBA said:


> It would behoove the African American community as a whole to emulate those other groups instead of a complaining about their supposed inequities. The Democratic Party pushes this mentality. With this mentality, the only way the community as a whole will “succeed“ is if they are gifted success via reparations, meaning ongoing monthly payments. The Democratic Party does a huge disservice the African American community.



Hmmm... Let's look at that.  

Here's the thing.  Those "other groups" didn't have 250 years of slavery followed by 100 years of Jim Crow. The point is, they were never allowed to assimilate.  

I could make the argument that my grandparents, when they immigrated from Germany in the 1920's (When the little town in Germany they lived in was occupied by the French) probably did encounter anti-German prejudice. But at some point, they were considered "White enough" to assimilate.  My dad was able to marry a non-German woman. (Something that a black person couldn't do in parts of this country until 1969). 

The key thing was immigration was a choice.  You move from something bad to a little bit better.  Slavery wasn't a choice.  You got kidnapped, you were put into something a bit worse.  When slavery was ended, it was replaced by something that was in some aspects, worse than slavery.  Debt-prisoners were treated MUCH worse than slaves. At least with a slave, you had an obligation to keep him healthy because he was an asset.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 16, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> I will assume you are pro choice


Yes, with strict restrictions. So in the extremely rare case that birth control fails, the girl can get an abortion within the first several weeks before she causes pain to the baby she’s killing - or better yet, take the morning after pill (it was a thing when I was young, so I assume they still have it) just to be safe. 

Are you meaning to Imply that all these girls getting pregnant are using birth control? The vast majority of them are being irresponsible  and NOT.


----------



## DBA (Apr 16, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> And why is it do you think thst an entire race if people make bad choices



The entire race doesn’t make bad decisions. There are many successful African Americans in this country, thus proving the point that racism doesn’t disqualify them from success.  Are you saying that success African Americans just got lucky?


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 16, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> And why is it do you think thst an entire race if people make bad choices


ahhhh….a leftist out with the racism card, I see.

Ive said repeatedly in this thread and elsewhere that the majority of blacks are middle class. There is a subset of blacks that make bad choices, and that’s why they remain poor. it is NOT due to racism.

Try again.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

DBA said:


> The entire race doesn’t make bad decisions. There are many successful African Americans in this country, thus proving the point that racism doesn’t disqualify them from success.  Are you saying that success African Americans just got lucky?


No.  I am saying sone did well in spite of racism


But racism exists


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yes, with strict restrictions. So in the extremely rare case that birth control fails, the girl can get an abortion within the first several weeks before she causes pain to the baby she’s killing - or better yet, take the morning after pill (it was a thing when I was young, so I assume they still have it) just to be safe.
> 
> Are you meaning to Imply that all these girls getting pregnant are using birth control? The vast majority of them are being irresponsible  and NOT.


I'd love to see your research


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 16, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The antisemite is still speaking, I see…..
> 
> The rich Jews did not end up in America. We had a massive wave of poor, uneducated immigrants - whose children were all middle class by the next generation.
> 
> You disgusting POS make all kinds of excuses for the blacks who remain impoverished due to their own choices, condemn people who point out the obvious truth as being racists, and then spew your Jew-hate all over this forum.



One more time.  

When the Jews came here from Europe,  there were no segregation laws, no laws keeping them down.  No 400 years of oppression in America.  They were just another group of white people coming over, not as good as the WASP's, but white enough.  

America is religiously tolerant.  It's one of our virtues, I guess. (Although it would be better if we all stopped believing in imaginary sky fairies).  We are racially intolerant.  

America's first "blockbuster" movie was a glorification of the Ku Klux Klan.  

I'm not aware of any movie that has ever been made in this country where the Nazis weren't the bad guys.  



Lisa558 said:


> Absolutely! All the blacks have to do is emulate other persecuted groups - such as Jews and Asians - who arrive on these shores with nothing, and a generation later, their kids are all college graduates.



The point is, YOU ARRIVED ON THESE SHORES VOLUNTARILY!!!!  Geezus Christ on a Pogo Stick, what part of "Brought over in chains" isn't clear to you.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 16, 2022)

DBA said:


> The entire race doesn’t make bad decisions. There are many successful African Americans in this country, thus proving the point that racism doesn’t disqualify them from success.  Are you saying that success African Americans just got lucky?


Thank you, again.

As you know, and the angry and hateful leftists pretend not to understand so they can screech “raaaaaacist!,” the fact that members of other persecuted groups are successful prove that it is one’s choices, and not bigotry, that accounts for success or failure.

And I said in my OP that the blacks who remain mired in poverty do so for the same reasons as whites do - poor choices.


----------



## DBA (Apr 16, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> The only group that can claim they've been more oppressed in America than blacks are Native Americans, because they were outright GENOCIDED.
> 
> I was watching a very interesting historical vid yesterday about how after slavery ended, black people were routinely arrested on petty charges and then had their labor sold to financial interests in the  South.   This shit went on until the mid-20th century.   And we aren't talking crimes like murder and rape, we are talking crimes like "Riding the Railroad without a ticket."
> 
> ...



Let’s get this straight. You believe that a black person born in 2004 who is currently 18 years old cannot succeed due to past and present racism?  He/she can’t study and get into college. He/she can’t do well in college?. He/she can’t get a good job? He/she can’t be responsible and not have or father children out of wedlock? None of this is possible due to racism?  

*YOU ARE AN UNINFORMED, INDOCTRINATED IMBECILE!*


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 16, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> No.  I am saying sone did well in spite of racism
> 
> 
> But racism exists


And the vast majority of Jews did well despite antisemitism.

It still all boils down to making the right choices.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 16, 2022)

DBA said:


> The entire race doesn’t make bad decisions. There are many successful African Americans in this country, thus proving the point that racism doesn’t disqualify them from success. Are you saying that success African Americans just got lucky?



Hey, check it out... here's a guy who worked very hard, made good decisions, and even SERVED HIS COUNTRY, and the fucking racist white cops STILL treated him like this.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 16, 2022)

DBA said:


> Let’s get this straight. You believe that a black person born in 2004 who is currently 18 years old cannot succeed due to past and present racism?  He/she can’t study and get into college. He/she can’t do well in college?. He/she can’t get a good job? He/she can’t be responsible and not have or father children out of wedlock? None of this is possible due to racism?
> 
> *YOU ARE AN UNINFORMED, INDOCTRINATED IMBECILE!*


He’s also a major hypocrite. You should read the nasty shit he says about Jews while complaining about the ill effects of bigotry. Against blacks.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 16, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> No.  I am saying sone did well in spite of racism
> 
> 
> But racism exists


Oh wait…….I see you just joined TODAY, and all already coming out accusing conservatives of racism and making snide remarks.

You are apparently such a POS leftist that you were banned, and have now resurfaced under a new name.

End of discussion.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 16, 2022)

DBA said:


> Let’s get this straight. You believe that a black person born in 2004 who is currently 18 years old cannot succeed due to past and present racism? He/she can’t study and get into college. He/she can’t do well in college?. He/she can’t get a good job? He/she can’t be responsible and not have or father children out of wedlock? None of this is possible due to racism?



I'm saying the obvious, when you have a racist #### like Lisa working in admissions offices, yes, a black kid is going to be disadvantaged when trying to get into college.  When you have white HR departments rejecting his resume because his name is Jamal, and taking a resume from a guy named Greg who is less qualified.  

Did you know the last slave was freed in America in 1942?  That was the last time that a black person was freed from debt peonage.  Which was only ended because it was a bad look to have debt slavery while fighting the Axis.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 16, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> He’s also a major hypocrite. You should read the nasty shit he says about Jews while complaining about the ill effects of bigotry. Against blacks.



Your fucked up religious beliefs are a choice.


----------



## DBA (Apr 16, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> No.  I am saying sone did well in spite of racism
> 
> 
> But racism exists



Yes, some racism exists that effects all races as does a myriad of other hinderances to every race and gender on the planet. Such is life.


----------



## DBA (Apr 16, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> I'm saying the obvious, when you have a racist #### like Lisa working in admissions offices, yes, a black kid is going to be disadvantaged when trying to get into college.  When you have white HR departments rejecting his resume because his name is Jamal, and taking a resume from a guy named Greg who is less qualified.
> 
> Did you know the last slave was freed in America in 1942?  That was the last time that a black person was freed from debt peonage.  Which was only ended because it was a bad look to have debt slavery while fighting the Axis.



I get the impression that Lisa would admit the most deserving person, black, white, Asian, etc. In your mind, it is racist that she would NOT choose the black person who was LESS qualified. That is your problem. No common sense.


----------



## DBA (Apr 16, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Your fucked up religious beliefs are a choice.



It is also a choice to play the role of the victim.  

Attacking someone’s religion should be off limits.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> And the vast majority of Jews did well despite antisemitism.
> 
> It still all boils down to making the right choices.


Jews can blend in


Racism exists


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

DBA said:


> Yes, some racism exists that effects all races as does a myriad of other hinderances to every race and gender on the planet. Such is life.


But racism against black people was especially bad as it was US policy for hundreds of years....right?


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 16, 2022)

DBA said:


> Yes, some racism exists that effects all races as does a myriad of other hinderances to every race and gender on the planet. Such is life.



Well, at least you are admitting it... so when you can't deny it, downplay it.   Not very intellectually honest, but there youare. 




DBA said:


> I get the impression that Lisa would admit the most deserving person, black, white, Asian, etc. In your mind, it is racist that she would NOT choose the black person who was LESS qualified. That is your problem. No common sense.



Then you haven't read her posts, where she constantly whines about black people getting into college,  and even whines that there are too many black people on posters at her mall.   Seriously, you have to have a serious fucking race obsession to be upset about posters in a mall.  



DBA said:


> It is also a choice to play the role of the victim.
> 
> Attacking someone’s religion should be off limits.



Why? Frankly, religion DESERVES to be attacked when it becomes an excuse for bad behavior.  

Otherwise, I declare myself to be a follower of the the Plumed Serpent, Quetzalcoatl, and demand the right to cut the hearts out of my enemies... because that's my religion, and attacking it should be off limits.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 16, 2022)

DBA said:


> I get the impression that Lisa would admit the most deserving person, black, white, Asian, etc. In your mind, it is racist that she would NOT choose the black person who was LESS qualified. That is your problem. No common sense.


So true!


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 16, 2022)

DBA said:


> I get the impression that Lisa would admit the most deserving person, black, white, Asian, etc. In your mind, it is racist that she would NOT choose the black person who was LESS qualified. That is your problem. No common sense.


That is exactly what is happening in admissions. We are accused by liberals  of being racist if we admit the white kid with a 3.8 and stellar test scores instead of the black kid with a 3.2 and mediocre scores.

What happens is that people with a sense of fairness, such as myself, have left the admissions field while the ones remaining are hard-core anti-white and anti-Asian racists who will do everything they can to make sure more blacks get in, regardless of their academic qualifications.

That’s why Harvard came up with the anti-Asian personality test as an excuse to reject exemplary Asians with excellent academic records in favor of lesser qualified blacks. There was no way to keep justifying why the valedictorian Asians with a 3.9 GPA were being rejected in favor of much less impressive blacks, so they came up with that disgusting racist excuse that “Asians have unlikeable personalities.” This is what the upcoming SCOTUS case is about.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 16, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> But racism against black people was especially bad as it was US policy for hundreds of years....right?



Yes but you don't have reverse discrimination to make up for that.  What's done is done and you try to move on.  The left talk about reparations from people simply because of the color of their skin.  No ex-slave is alive today and no ex-slave holders either.  You can't move forward by living in the past like Frank James or you end up like him.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yes but you don't have reverse discrimination to make up for that.  What's done is done and you try to move on.  The left talk about reparations from people simply because of the color of their skin.  No ex-slave is alive today and no ex-slave holders either.  You can't move forward by living in the past like Frank James or you end up like him.


What's done is done


Racism exists


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 16, 2022)

DBA said:


> Are you attempting to say that black people are not tolerated and accepted?  You miss Lisa’s point all together. There are many other groups in this country who have been no more or less persecuted than black people in the last 40-50 years that have done quite well for themselves as a group.
> 
> It would behoove the African American community as a whole to emulate those other groups instead of a complaining about their supposed inequities.  The Democratic Party pushes this mentality that black can’t succeed because of inequities. With this mentality, the only way the community as a whole will “succeed“ is if they are gifted success via reparations, meaning ongoing monthly payments. The Democratic Party does a huge disservice the African American community.



A lot of blacks are not accepted, but it has nothing to do with skin color, it has to do with how they conduct themselves.  

It's like that story I was telling about last summer.  I was in the backyard with a few of my neighbors having a nice discussion on a beautiful quiet summer day.  Then as always, some black guy on a motorcycle pulls up to the stop light with his music blaring so loud it could be heard a street away.  We had to stop talking.  When he left, I looked at my neighbors and said "and the reason we don't want them living near us is because of the color of their skin" and of course they broke out in laughter.  

This is what's promoted by the left, that it's not how a group of people act, there is racism because of skin color.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 16, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> That is exactly what is happening in admissions. We are accused by liberals of being racist if we admit the white kid with a 3.8 and stellar test scores instead of the black kid with a 3.2 and mediocre scores.



And frankly, you are.    Either one of those is a pretty good score.   

Black people have had to endure slavery, lynching, peon bondage, literacy tests, Jim Crow, miscegenation laws... and you are whining because the white  kid with a SLIGHTLY higher GPA got passed over for the elite school and had to settle for the non-elite school.  








Lisa558 said:


> What happens is that people with a sense of fairness, such as myself, have left the admissions field while the ones remaining are hard-core anti-white and anti-Asian racists who will do everything they can to make sure more blacks get in, regardless of their academic qualifications.



Yeah- picture, how Karen "left the admissions field"...




right after her colleagues finally decided they were done listening to her rant about how there were too many black students on the brochures...  



Lisa558 said:


> That’s why Harvard came up with the anti-Asian personality test as an excuse to reject exemplary Asians with excellent academic records in favor of lesser qualified blacks. There was no way to keep justifying why the valedictorian Asians with a 3.9 GPA were being rejected in favor of much less impressive blacks, so they came up with that disgusting racist excuse that “Asians have unlikeable personalities.” This is what the upcoming SCOTUS case is about.



The ironic thing is, that if this is used to discard Affirmative Action, it will be because two mediocrities who are only on the court because of Affirmative Action (Thomas and Barrett) voted against it.  

Again, the Asian students are being admitted at a much higher rate than their percentage of the population...


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 16, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> A lot of blacks are not accepted, but it has nothing to do with skin color, it has to do with how they conduct themselves.
> 
> It's like that story I was telling about last summer. I was in the backyard with a few of my neighbors having a nice discussion on a beautiful quiet summer day. Then as always, some black guy on a motorcycle pulls up to the stop light with his music blaring so loud it could be heard a street away. We had to stop talking. When he left, I looked at my neighbors and said "and the reason we don't want them living near us is because of the color of their skin" and of course they broke out in laughter.



Last time you told this story it was your FAMILY that came out for a visit...  

Has it occurred to that you made a mistake buying a house so close to a busy intersection? 

Of course, with Welfare Ray, the black person is ALWAYS at fault.   Other than the occasional Uncle Tom Sellout, I've never seen him take the side of a black person once. 

There's a reason for that.


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 16, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> We were discussing poverty, weren't we?  The claim is how much better whites have it than minorities, right?
> 
> So if minorities want to financially do better, do what white middle-class people do.  Don't be blaming this phony race crap because poverty has nothing to with race, it has to do with how you manage your life.  White people who have kids they can't afford do just as badly as black people who have kids they can't afford.  Again, the CDC estimates that it costs $233,000 per child in a middle-class family.  That's about a half-million dollars you need to come up with in the next 20 or so years if you want a two-child family.
> 
> That's why once you have kids you can't afford, you'll never get off of government assistance until the kids turn into adults, and you'll live the rest of your life in poverty.  It's much better to use that money to learn a trade or career instead, and then consider having kids when you can afford them.


In case you missed it, and I'm sure with your White colored glasses you miss many things, the claim of the OP was that racism has no part in Black poverty.
It's been demonstrated that opportunities are denied to people who are "too Black" in the minds of some Whites.
It's been documented over and over that Black people are denied better housing, better schools. the foundations of economic progress despite being able to afford them.


SO, and here's where your ugliness is exposed...

You would deny them access to better economic conditions that would help raise families
WHILE, at the same time,
BLAMING THE VICTIM for choosing to fill their biological function anyway.

BUUUUUUUUT
We all know
Some of your best friends...


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 16, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> There is no reason they should not act white
> 
> the White Way has been pretty successful for the past 2000 years


Really?
Bubonic plague
Churches protecting child molesters

BUT, in any case...

People have been on this planet for 200k years.
I wouldn't brag about a 1% success rate.


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 16, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It's not an opinion, its a study just like yours.  The difference is my link tells you about the details your link doesn't.  There's always another side of the story.
> 
> Company owners do have a favorite color, and that color is green.  The employees that make the most of the employers favorite color are his or her favorite employees.


That you are unable to discern fact from opinion is a problem you should work on

Fact displays the day.
Opinion tells you what you should think of the fact.

You "proof" is an opinion piece.
Do try to do better.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 16, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> In case you missed it, and I'm sure with your White colored glasses you miss many things, the claim of the OP was that racism has no part in Black poverty.
> It's been demonstrated that opportunities are denied to people who are "too Black" in the minds of some Whites.
> It's been documented over and over that Black people are denied better housing, better schools. the foundations of economic progress despite being able to afford them.
> 
> ...


Sure, there are SOME racists who wouldn’t hire someone who is “too black” just as there are SOME antisemites who wouldn’t hire someone who is “too Jewish.”

But for the most part, the reason some blacks are in poverty is because they are making bad choices - 1) having babies they can’t afford before they’re married and 2) not completing high school.

But you go ahead and focus on the exceptions, making excuses, when if you liberals would admit that it only takes the two basic steps above to move out of poverty and into the working class, at minimum, and that 95% of poor blacks would move beyond it in a single generation.

Asians did it. Jews did it. Blacks can do it too if leftists would stop blaming racism for everything. It anything, blacks today are favored over whites in many arenas, and you are NOT helping them by making them feel like helpless, oppressed victims.

Because you are not getting reparations. Dream on.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 16, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> That you are unable to discern fact from opinion is a problem you should work on
> 
> Fact displays the day.
> Opinion tells you what you should think of the fact.
> ...




What my link described is how the research was conducted and the flaws within.  Now if you disagree with what they found, then by all means, show they are wrong.  it's far from an opinion piece.  They examined what tricks were used to make it look racially bias as all these studies do.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 16, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Sure, there are SOME racists who wouldn’t hire someone who is “too black” just as there are SOME antisemites who wouldn’t hire someone who is “too Jewish.”



Really? Name one? 



Lisa558 said:


> But for the most part, the reason some blacks are in poverty is because they are making bad choices - 1) having babies they can’t afford before they’re married and 2) not completing high school.



Uh, yeah, here's the thing.  you keep repeating a lot of racist myths... unmarried does not mean fatherless.  50% of white people get divorced, but you never cite that as an excuse for poverty.  



Lisa558 said:


> But you go ahead and focus on the exceptions, making excuses, when if you liberals would admit that it only takes the two basic steps above to move out of poverty and into the working class, at minimum, and that 95% of poor blacks would move beyond it in a single generation.



Somehow, a HS Diploma isn't going to make up for 400 years of institutionalized racism...  



Lisa558 said:


> Asians did it. Jews did it. Blacks can do it too if leftists would stop blaming racism for everything. It anything, blacks today are favored over whites in many arenas, and you are NOT helping them by making them feel like helpless, oppressed victims.



She must have saw some more posters and wet herself.. 

Jews don't wear big old signs saying they are Jews.  You toss a Jew into a crowd of white people, I'm not going to be able to pick him or her out. (At least not until they open their mouths.)  

There is a HUGE difference between what White Immigrants encountered and what blacks have encountered.  Heck, as a German American, I can point out a lot of anti-German discrimination in our history.  PROHIBITION was entirely a "Let's stick it to the Krauts" law.  (Until the WASPs realized they couldn't get shitfaced, either. ) 

But at the end of the day, Jews, Germans, Catholics, Irish, Italians, Poles were ruled as being "White Enough".  Blacks aren't. 

Which brings us to Asians.  

They simply never really encountered what black folks have, either, and most of them are RECENT immigrants. the key thing about any immigrant is that they had the resources to get here, which is a lot harder than it was when Grandpa Ludwig got off the boat in 1925 and realized he couldn't get a beer.  Which means we are talking about people who ALREADY had affluence.  Poor Asians, such as refugees from Vietnam, still encounter the same struggles that other minorities do. 




Lisa558 said:


> Because you are not getting reparations. Dream on.


Actually, reparations would be a lot cheaper than what we are doing now.  

Check out what CITIGROUP has said about the cost of racism in this country.  









						Cost Of Racism: U.S. Economy Lost $16 Trillion Because Of Discrimination, Bank Says
					

Citigroup estimates the economy would see a $5 trillion boost over the next five years if the U.S. were to tackle key areas of discrimination against African Americans.




					www.npr.org
				




_Nationwide protests have cast a spotlight on racism and inequality in the United States. Now a major bank has put a price tag on how much the economy has lost as a result of discrimination against African Americans: $16 trillion.

Since 2000, U.S. gross domestic product lost that much as a result of discriminatory practices in a range of areas, including in education and access to business loans, according to a new study by Citigroup. It's not an insignificant number: By comparison, U.S. GDP totaled $19.5 trillion last year.

And not acting to reverse discriminatory practices will continue to exact a cost. Citigroup estimates the economy would see a $5 trillion boost over the next five years if the U.S. were to tackle key areas of discrimination against African Americans_.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 16, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> In case you missed it, and I'm sure with your White colored glasses you miss many things, the claim of the OP was that racism has no part in Black poverty.
> It's been demonstrated that opportunities are denied to people who are "too Black" in the minds of some Whites.
> It's been documented over and over that Black people are denied better housing, better schools. the foundations of economic progress despite being able to afford them.



It hasn't been demonstrated at all.  You point to some flawed and rigged study as evidence, but yet to give any real life instances.  

Show me where blacks were denied better housing outside of the FACT they didn't meet the financial qualifications to own such a home.  Show me one black who was denied education in the city they live in and pay taxes to support those schools.  It never happens and do you know why?  BECAUSE IT'S ILLEGAL, that's why.  

Schools are locally funded and it's up to the taxpayers how much funding they wish to provide to the education of these kids, not some evil white man.  i know this because over half of my property taxes go to fund our schools as it is with every homeowner.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It hasn't been demonstrated at all.  You point to some flawed and rigged study as evidence, but yet to give any real life instances.
> 
> Show me where blacks were denied better housing outside of the FACT they didn't meet the financial qualifications to own such a home.  Show me one black who was denied education in the city they live in and pay taxes to support those schools.  It never happens and do you know why?  BECAUSE IT'S ILLEGAL, that's why.
> 
> Schools are locally funded and it's up to the taxpayers how much funding they wish to provide to the education of these kids, not some evil white man.  i know this because over half of my property taxes go to fund our schools as it is with every homeowner.


It does happen all the time


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 16, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> It does happen all the time



Oh, you want to get in on this?  Fine, show me your evidence too.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Oh, you want to get in on this?  Fine, show me your evidence too.


Start here









						The Many Effects of Housing Discrimination on African Americans » NCRC
					

Fair housing is a civil right protected by the Fair Housing Act (FHA). And yet, housing discrimination and segregation still persist, causing long-term societal effects in America. Segregation and discrimination in housing harm people’s health, their ability to accumulate wealth and the environment.




					ncrc.org


----------



## rightnow909 (Apr 16, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The reason for poverty among blacks who remain poor (most are working class or above) is the same reason that whites in poverty remain poor. It is due to having babies while still in one’s teens, without a husband, and often without completing high school as a result.
> 
> Anyone can break free of poverty by doing the following, at a minimum:
> 
> 1) If you have sex while in high school (not everyone does, by the way), use birth control consistently.


Catholics (real ones) don't like this advice.

Worst part of birth control is that some methods actually cause a woman to get pregnant but then expel the child before he or she can implant in the uterus.. 

which of course is not prevention of life but destruction of it


+


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 16, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Start here
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not going to read any of your links if they don't address what was being discussed.  It's a waste of my time.  First of all it discusses the former practice of red lining.  Red lining is what banks did to assure they were not making bad loans in areas where property values declined and continued to decline.  It was not race based, but security based.  Nobody wants to lend money to people who have no ability to repay the loan or housing that will be worth less than the money that was borrowed.  If the loan goes bad, there is no way for a bank to recover their losses.  

This is an opinion piece and not fact.  What I asked for was evidence that black people were discriminated against because of skin color and no other financial reason.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I'm not going to read any of your links if they don't address what was being discussed.  It's a waste of my time.  First of all it discusses the former practice of red lining.  Red lining is what banks did to assure they were not making bad loans in areas where property values declined and continued to decline.  It was not race based, but security based.  Nobody wants to lend money to people who have no ability to repay the loan or housing that will be worth less than the money that was borrowed.  If the loan goes bad, there is no way for a bank to recover their losses.
> 
> This is an opinion piece and not fact.  What I asked for was evidence that black people were discriminated against because of skin color and no other financial reason.


I gave it to you.  You wont read it


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 16, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> I gave it to you.  You wont read it



I did read it.  That's how I know what was in it and you don't.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 16, 2022)

rightnow909 said:


> Catholics (real ones) don't like this advice.
> 
> Worst part of birth control is that some methods actually cause a woman to get pregnant but then expel the child before he or she can implant in the uterus..
> 
> ...


So you‘re saying all the black girls having babies they can’t afford object to birth control, and THAT is why they are getting pregnant? ha.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I did read it.  That's how I know what was in it and you don't.


Well you said you didnt read it.  But it's the evidence you asked for


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 16, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I did read it.  That's how I know what was in it and you don't.


I read it too. It was from a liberal source that talked about the FHA, instituted more than 50 years ago.

If leftists want to blame black poverty on racism, and ignore personal responsibility and wise choices, then they need to get with the 21st century, where blacks are actually favored over whites - now more than ever, and stop talking about how it was two generations ago.

Banks decide whom to lend to based on risk:reward, and a black family and a white family with an identical application - demonstrating the same character, collateral, and credit - with the same income, and both applying for a home in the same area, will be given the same consideration.


----------



## Mac-7 (Apr 16, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> Really?
> Bubonic plague
> Churches protecting child molesters
> 
> ...


In a modern culture of “what have you done lately” europeans, including Americans, have been dominating the world for the last 500 of those 200k years

and thats the reality that drives libs nuts


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I read it too. It was from a liberal source that talked about the FHA, instituted more than 50 years ago.
> 
> If leftists want to blame black poverty on racism, and ignore personal responsibility and wise choices, then they need to get with the 21st century, where blacks are actually favored over whites - now more than ever, and stop talking about how it was two generations ago.
> 
> Banks decide whom to lend to based on risk:reward, and a black family and a white family with an identical application - demonstrating the same character, collateral, and credit - with the same income, and both applying for a home in the same area, will be given the same consideration.


Racism exists


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 16, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I'm not going to read any of your links if they don't address what was being discussed.  It's a waste of my time.  First of all it discusses the former practice of red lining.  Red lining is what banks did to assure they were not making bad loans in areas where property values declined and continued to decline.  It was not race based, but security based.  Nobody wants to lend money to people who have no ability to repay the loan or housing that will be worth less than the money that was borrowed.  If the loan goes bad, there is no way for a bank to recover their losses.
> 
> This is an opinion piece and not fact.  What I asked for was evidence that black people were discriminated against because of skin color and no other financial reason.


Exactly! All these leftists do is talk about how racism used to exist generations ago. There’s very little of it now, and in fact, in today’s upside-down climate, there’s more racism against whites. When did you ever hear a president announce an opening for a SCOTUS nominee, or the VP, and proudly brag that he was going to exclude all whites from consideration?

And as far as redlining, you’re correct of course. It was a business decisions. Banks were reluctant to lend for houses in inner-city black neighborhoods because property values did not hold up as well, if not fall dramatically, and the loan was no longer fully collateralized. Thus, the lender was not protected in the event of a default.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Exactly! All these leftists do is talk about how racism used to exist generations ago. There’s very little of it now, and in fact, in today’s upside-down climate, there’s more racism against whites. When did you ever hear a president announce an opening for a SCOTUS nominee, or the VP, and proudly brag that he was going to exclude all whites from consideration?
> 
> And as far as redlining, you’re correct of course. It was a business decisions. Banks were reluctant to lend for houses in inner-city black neighborhoods because property values did not hold up as well, if not fall dramatically, and the loan was no longer fully collateralized. Thus, the lender was not protected in the event of a default.











						The Many Effects of Housing Discrimination on African Americans » NCRC
					

Fair housing is a civil right protected by the Fair Housing Act (FHA). And yet, housing discrimination and segregation still persist, causing long-term societal effects in America. Segregation and discrimination in housing harm people’s health, their ability to accumulate wealth and the environment.




					ncrc.org


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 16, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Racism exists


You’re supposed to be banned. Now go away,.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> You’re supposed to be banned. Now go away,.


Yet here I am.  Lol


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 16, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> The Many Effects of Housing Discrimination on African Americans » NCRC
> 
> 
> Fair housing is a civil right protected by the Fair Housing Act (FHA). And yet, housing discrimination and segregation still persist, causing long-term societal effects in America. Segregation and discrimination in housing harm people’s health, their ability to accumulate wealth and the environment.
> ...


Again, old news. If there is a segment of the black population that remains mired in poverty, despite the favoritism given to them via two generations of affirmative action, then the fault lies with them and their bad life choices - not racism.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Again, old news. If there is a segment of the black population that remains mired in poverty, despite the favoritism given to them via teo  generations of affirmative action, then the fault lies with them and their bad life choices - not racism.


So much evidence 









						How racial disparities in home prices reveal widespread discrimination
					

On February 24, 2021, Brookings Metro Senior Fellow Andre M. Perry testified to the U.S. House Committee on Financial Services’ Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations, during a hearing titled…




					www.google.com


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 16, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> So much evidence
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’m going to ignore you from now on. You were banned and you need to go away.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I’m going to ignore you from now on. You were banned and you need to go away.


And yet here I am

You do you.  I will correct your posts


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 16, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I read it too. It was from a liberal source that talked about the FHA, instituted more than 50 years ago.
> 
> If leftists want to blame black poverty on racism, and ignore personal responsibility and wise choices, then they need to get with the 21st century, where blacks are actually favored over whites - now more than ever, and stop talking about how it was two generations ago.
> 
> Banks decide whom to lend to based on risk:reward, and a black family and a white family with an identical application - demonstrating the same character, collateral, and credit - with the same income, and both applying for a home in the same area, will be given the same consideration.



The banks only care about one thing like any other business, and that is profit.  Why would any bank or bank President not want to make profit from people of color?  It defies all business sense and practices.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The banks only care about one thing like any other business, and that is profit.  Why would any bank or bank President not want to make profit from people of color?  It defies all business sense and practices.


And they used racism to gain profit


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 16, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Well you said you didnt read it.  But it's the evidence you asked for



So where in your article does it say blacks were discriminated against because of skin color?  Nowhere.  Again, they talk about making safe investments which many black areas are not.  It's no different than if a white person went for a loan where housing and property values are falling.  They're not going to get a loan.  

Now when I went to get a loan for my properties (and this was nearly 30 years ago) the banks gave me a hard time.  I'm white, had excellent credit, a job I was at over a year, a thriving career, and yet they didn't want to make the loans.  Why?  Because rental property was considered a higher risk than just a plain home loan.  Statistically, landlords allow rental property to go to hell.  All they cared about was making money on them.  

When Clinton ordered lower standards so more blacks could get loans, it led to the housing crash of 2008.  They were giving loans to just about anybody and those people didn't understand what they were getting into.  The government not only allowed them to sell those loans on the market, but falsely gave those loans a triple A rating so they could be sold off.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So where in your article does it say blacks were discriminated against because of skin color?  Nowhere.  Again, they talk about making safe investments which many black areas are not.  It's no different than if a white person went for a loan where housing and property values are falling.  They're not going to get a loan.
> 
> Now when I went to get a loan for my properties (and this was nearly 30 years ago) the banks gave me a hard time.  I'm white, had excellent credit, a job I was at over a year, a thriving career, and yet they didn't want to make the loans.  Why?  Because rental property was considered a higher risk than just a plain home loan.  Statistically, landlords allow rental property to go to hell.  All they cared about was making money on them.
> 
> When Clinton ordered lower standards so more blacks could get loans, it led to the housing crash of 2008.  They were giving loans to just about anybody and those people didn't understand what they were getting into.  The government not only allowed them to sell those loans on the market, but falsely gave those loans a triple A rating so they could be sold off.


Well all of that is made up nonsense


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 16, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Well all of that is made up nonsense



It's 100% truth.  Would you like some links to my claim?  I still have them in my bookmarks.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 16, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So where in your article does it say blacks were discriminated against because of skin color?  Nowhere.  Again, they talk about making safe investments which many black areas are not.  It's no different than if a white person went for a loan where housing and property values are falling.  They're not going to get a loan.
> 
> Now when I went to get a loan for my properties (and this was nearly 30 years ago) the banks gave me a hard time.  I'm white, had excellent credit, a job I was at over a year, a thriving career, and yet they didn't want to make the loans.  Why?  Because rental property was considered a higher risk than just a plain home loan.  Statistically, landlords allow rental property to go to hell.  All they cared about was making money on them.
> 
> When Clinton ordered lower standards so more blacks could get loans, it led to the housing crash of 2008.  They were giving loans to just about anybody and those people didn't understand what they were getting into.  The government not only allowed them to sell those loans on the market, but falsely gave those loans a triple A rating so they could be sold off.


Exactly. The Democrats were all about “equity” even then, and they just wanted blacks to be able to buy a house, whether they could afford it or not. Their insistence that unqualified blacks get approved for loans no matter what brought on the subprime disaster and the Great Recession.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 16, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> And they used racism to gain profit


Well thats just made up nonsence..


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It's 100% truth.  Would you like some links to my claim?  I still have them in my bookmarks.


I have links too bud









						How racial disparities in home prices reveal widespread discrimination
					

On February 24, 2021, Brookings Metro Senior Fellow Andre M. Perry testified to the U.S. House Committee on Financial Services’ Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations, during a hearing titled…




					www.google.com


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Well thats just made up nonsence..


Read the links


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 16, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Read the links


That’s just a bunch of old news from the last century.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> That’s just a bunch of old news from the last century.


Read the  date


HAHAHAHAHA


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 16, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> I have links too bud
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You are either extremely low educated, have terrible comprehension skills, or are just plain stupid.  Your article (once again) points out that the disparities are with the applicants themselves, not the lending institutions. 

For instance it points out that housing prices are lower in minority communities.  Well no shit!  Who made them lower value?  Then it points out that housing prices are much higher in metro areas.  Well no shit again.  Areas that have much less violent crime, open stores, much less theft are more desirable places to live, and therefor higher property values.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You are either extremely low educated, have terrible comprehension skills, or are just plain stupid.  Your article (once again) points out that the disparities are with the applicants themselves, not the lending institutions.
> 
> For instance it points out that housing prices are lower in minority communities.  Well no shit!  Who made them lower value?  Then it points out that housing prices are much higher in metro areas.  Well no shit again.  Areas that have much less violent crime, open stores, much less theft are more desirable places to live, and therefor higher property values.


Let's talk about me


Because you are getting crushed on the facts


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 16, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Let's talk about me
> 
> 
> Because you are getting crushed on the facts



Then it's agreed: you are completely stupid if that's what you think.  I point out facts.  Would you like me to quote them FROM YOUR LINK?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Then it's agreed: you are completely stupid if that's what you think.  I point out facts.  Would you like me to quote them FROM YOUR LINK?


You are so terrified of debate


HAHAHAHAHA 


HAHAHAHAHA


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 16, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> You are so terrified of debate
> 
> 
> HAHAHAHAHA
> ...



And you're nothing but a troll.  You don't want to debate anything.  You want to throw out phony left-wing talking points and leave it at that.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> And you're nothing but a troll.  You don't want to debate anything.  You want to throw out phony left-wing talking points and leave it at that.


It's so personal with you.  You cant debate the facts

Meanwhile, the housing market is structured to disproportionately exclude Black and brown households, as zoning codes and building practices incentivize the construction of very large homes at the expense of smaller, more affordable homes. “Because people of color are far more likely than white people to be first-time rather than repeat homebuyers,” Perry testified, “a mass of housing inventory weighted against attainable starter homes disproportionately favors households with higher concentrations of generational wealth to pay bigger down payments


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 16, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> It's so personal with you.  You cant debate the facts
> 
> Meanwhile, the housing market is structured to disproportionately exclude Black and brown households, as zoning codes and building practices incentivize the construction of very large homes at the expense of smaller, more affordable homes. “Because people of color are far more likely than white people to be first-time rather than repeat homebuyers,” Perry testified, “a mass of housing inventory weighted against attainable starter homes disproportionately favors households with higher concentrations of generational wealth to pay bigger down payments



Then explain how "it's at the expense of smaller home buyers" when those homes are worth less.  What generational wealth?  If my parents pass away and leave us with anything, we'll be the first generation to get something.  It's like that with most white people because the generation above us didn't have any money, only a very small percentage did.  Most were working class Americans and people from my generation were off the boat.  There was no generational wealth.  

There is no discrimination against first time home buyers black or white.  All banks care about is you are more than capable of repaying the loan.  That goes for smaller used homes as well as larger new homes.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 16, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Read the  date
> 
> 
> HAHAHAHAHA


The article is current, but in true libersl fashion, it’s reaching back two generations to discuss a racist policy - outlawed 50 years ago.

You have nothing. Racism against blacks is so rare that instances have to br MADE up. Now the racism is against non-blacks.

You liberals sure are eager to keep blacks convinced they’re victims, aren’t you. Gotta keep them on the Democrat Plantation, voting for handouts, rather than see them become self-sufficient. It’s exactly what LBJ said would “keep them voting Democrat for 200 years.”

Nobody but the deranged hard Left is buying it. Blacks are just as capable as whites as finishing high school and using birth control (If they have sex).


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The article is current, but in true libersl fashion, it’s reaching back two generations to discuss a racist policy - outlawed 50 years ago.
> 
> You have nothing. Racism against blacks is so rare that instances have to br MADE up. Now the racism is against non-blacks.
> 
> ...


So you got no facts....huh?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Then explain how "it's at the expense of smaller home buyers" when those homes are worth less.  What generational wealth?  If my parents pass away and leave us with anything, we'll be the first generation to get something.  It's like that with most white people because the generation above us didn't have any money, only a very small percentage did.  Most were working class Americans and people from my generation were off the boat.  There was no generational wealth.
> 
> There is no discrimination against first time home buyers black or white.  All banks care about is you are more than capable of repaying the loan.  That goes for smaller used homes as well as larger new homes.


There is MASSIVE white generational wealth in this country while IN MY LIFETINE discrimination against black people was legal


Holy cow


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 16, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Then explain how "it's at the expense of smaller home buyers" when those homes are worth less.  What generational wealth?  If my parents pass away and leave us with anything, we'll be the first generation to get something.  It's like that with most white people because the generation above us didn't have any money, only a very small percentage did.  Most were working class Americans and people from my generation were off the boat.  There was no generational wealth.
> 
> There is no discrimination against first time home buyers black or white.  All banks care about is you are more than capable of repaying the loan.  That goes for smaller used homes as well as larger new homes.


Yup. This whole “generational wealth” stuff is another of the libs’ big lies.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 16, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> There is MASSIVE white generational wealth in this country while IN MY LIFETINE discrimination against black people was legal
> 
> 
> Holy cow



Bullshit.  I'm white, my family is all white, and our parents grew up in a house the size of a three car garage; all six of them.  They had no indoor plumbing or electricity.  Many nights they went to bed hungry.  So where is this generational wealth at?


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 16, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You are either extremely low educated, have terrible comprehension skills, or are just plain stupid.  Your article (once again) points out that the disparities are with the applicants themselves, not the lending institutions.
> 
> For instance it points out that housing prices are lower in minority communities.  Well no shit!  Who made them lower value?  Then it points out that housing prices are much higher in metro areas.  Well no shit again.  Areas that have much less violent crime, open stores, much less theft are more desirable places to live, and therefor higher property values.


Liberals never will admit that blacks have any responsibility for their own situation.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Bullshit.  I'm white, my family is all white, and our parents grew up in a house the size of a three car garage; all six of them.  They had no indoor plumbing or electricity.  Many nights they went to bed hungry.  So where is this generational wealth at?


Are you freaking kidding?


You think this is about you personally?


HAHAHAHAHA 


There is MASSIVE WHITE GENERATIONAL WEALTH IN THIS COUNTRY


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Liberals never will admit that blacks have any responsibility for their own situation.


Wanna call me low educated too?  Lol


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 16, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Bullshit.  I'm white, my family is all white, and our parents grew up in a house the size of a three car garage; all six of them.  They had no indoor plumbing or electricity.  Many nights they went to bed hungry.  So where is this generational wealth at?


Exactly. My parents grew up dirt-poor, in tenements, to uneducated immigrants parents. They had no generational wealth, either.

What they did get from their parents was an emphasis on good values: discipline, motivation, the willingness to delay gratification for later success, the desire for a good education, and the pride that comes from supporting oneself with hard work.

This generational wealth myth is just that. It’s every bit a lie as “hands up….don’t shoot” was.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Exactly. My parents grew up dirt-poor, in tenements, to uneducated immigrants parents. They had no generational wealth, either.
> 
> What they did get from their parents was an emphasis on good values: discipline, motivation, the willingness to delay gratification for later success, the desire for a good education, and the pride that comes from supporting oneself with hard work.
> 
> This generational wealth myth is just that. It’s every bit a lie as “hands up….don’t shoot” was.


Well that's a exhaustive study.  Lol


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 16, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Exactly. My parents grew up dirt-poor, in tenements, to uneducated immigrants parents. They had no generational wealth, either.
> 
> What they did get from their parents was an emphasis on good values: discipline, motivation, the willingness to delay gratification for later success, the desire for a good education, and the pride that comes from supporting oneself with hard work.
> 
> This generational wealth myth is just that. It’s every bit a lie as “hands up….don’t shoot” was.



He's a sock.  He writes just like that asshole I have on ignore Danny Palos or something like that.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 16, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> I gave it to you. You wont read it



Someone would have to explain the big words to him!


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 16, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I read it too. It was from a liberal source that talked about the FHA, instituted more than 50 years ago.
> 
> If leftists want to blame black poverty on racism, and ignore personal responsibility and wise choices, then they need to get with the 21st century, where blacks are actually favored over whites - now more than ever, and stop talking about how it was two generations ago.
> 
> Banks decide whom to lend to based on risk:reward, and a black family and a white family with an identical application - demonstrating the same character, collateral, and credit - with the same income, and both applying for a home in the same area, will be given the same consideration.



Leave to a Jew to defend the Banksters.  

Let's get real.  White people make as many dumb choices as black people.   The difference is, white people have a whole network of support systems to make up for it when they do fuck up.  



Lisa558 said:


> Exactly! All these leftists do is talk about how racism used to exist generations ago. There’s very little of it now, and in fact, in today’s upside-down climate, there’s more racism against whites. When did you ever hear a president announce an opening for a SCOTUS nominee, or the VP, and proudly brag that he was going to exclude all whites from consideration?



Uh, okay.  

There have been 116 Justices of the Supreme Court.  112 of them have been white people, and of those, 108 have been white men. 
There have been 49 Vice Presidents of the United States. 48 of them have been white men. 



Lisa558 said:


> And as far as redlining, you’re correct of course. It was a business decisions. Banks were reluctant to lend for houses in inner-city black neighborhoods because property values did not hold up as well, if not fall dramatically, and the loan was no longer fully collateralized. Thus, the lender was not protected in the event of a default.



Again, leave it to the Jews to defend the Banksters, most of whom need to be in prison. 

The ironic thing was that the anti-Redlining laws kept the banks from making risky loans in the inner city, but the busted out the economy selling McMansions to stupid white people looking to flip houses.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 16, 2022)

Redlining is still going on... I guess the banks don't like Money that much. 









						Modern-day redlining: How banks block people of color from homeownership
					

Fifty years after the federal Fair Housing Act banned racial discrimination in lending, African Americans and Latinos continue to be routinely denied




					www.chicagotribune.com
				




Fifty years after the federal Fair Housing Act banned racial discrimination in lending, African Americans and Latinos continue to be routinely denied conventional mortgage loans at rates far higher than their white counterparts.

This modern-day redlining persisted in 61 metro areas *even when controlling for applicants' income, loan amount and neighborhood*, according to millions of Home Mortgage Disclosure Act records analyzed by Reveal from The Center for Investigative Reporting.

The yearlong analysis, based on 31 million records, relied on techniques used by leading academics, the Federal Reserve and Department of Justice to identify lending disparities.

It found a pattern of troubling denials for people of color across the country, including in major metropolitan areas such as Atlanta, Detroit, Philadelphia, Rockford, Ill., St. Louis and San Antonio. African Americans faced the most resistance in Southern cities - Mobile, Alabama; Greenville, North Carolina; and Gainesville, Florida - and Latinos in Iowa City, Iowa.

No matter their location, loan applicants told similar stories, describing an uphill battle with loan officers who they said seemed to be fishing for a reason to say no.

"I had a fair amount of savings and still had so much trouble just left and right," said Rachelle Faroul, a 33-year-old black woman who was rejected twice by lenders when she tried to buy a brick row house close to Malcolm X Park in Philadelphia, where African Americans were 2.7 times as likely as whites to be denied a conventional mortgage.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 16, 2022)

Wait, there's more.  Welfare Ray will probably claim they didn't wear a nice enough suit. 









						Housing segregation is still happening decades after redlining was ruled illegal, Biden's CFPB says
					

The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau found evidence of redlining, along with "racist and derogatory content" in emails among loan officers.




					www.businessinsider.com
				




The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, which ensures consumers are financially protected, released a report on Tuesday that found evidence of lenders violating the Fair Housing Act of 1968, which banned housing discrimination. Specifically, examiners in the bureau found lenders engaged in practices that discouraged prospective applicants in minority communities from applying for credit and targeted marketing in majority-white neighborhoods. 

The agency's press release detailed that lenders located their offices in "almost exclusively" majority-white neighborhoods, _*only used pictures of white people in marketing campaigns, and published loan officer headshots of "almost exclusively" white people*_.

Wait. What?  Didn't Karen558 tell us for WEEKS about how only black people were being used in advertising these days and this was a virtual holocaust of white people?


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 16, 2022)

And wait, even more, from that Commie Rag, Bloomberg.  









						Redlining is Alive and Well—and Evolving
					

Nine recent, high-profile cases show the discriminatory practice of redlining is not a thing of the past. It’s even spread to your Facebook account.




					www.bloomberg.com
				




Some recent cases, however, show that not only is redlining alive today, but that it’s also evolved in many cases into racist practices that aren’t as detectable as they were during Jim Crow.

Cities have been trying to head off the nefarious housing practices and effects, too, with a number filing suits against banks and companies suspected of a variety of steering practices. One common form of this is predatory lending, where banks reserve high-interest loans almost exclusively for people of color, what’s sometimes called “reverse redlining.” Another comes in the form of a company’s refusal to deliver services, like utilities, to neighborhoods with large black and Latino populations.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 16, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> He's a sock.  He writes just like that asshole I have on ignore Danny Palos or something like that.


I was trying to figure out which POS leftist he was. You’re right…he sounds like that obnoxious Danny.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 16, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> And wait, even more, from that Commie Rag, Bloomberg.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


These guys are terrified of debate


----------



## monkrules (Apr 16, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Oh wait…….I see you just joined TODAY, and all already coming out accusing conservatives of racism and making snide remarks.
> 
> You are apparently such a POS leftist that you were banned, and have now resurfaced under a new name.
> 
> End of discussion.


You'll never be able to reason with this loser. He's apparently highly skilled, after much practice, at making never-ending excuses for Blacks who still CHOOSE to fail.

It's easier to bitch and moan about being "oppressed," and to riot, loot, and accuse whitey of being a great big meanie - than it is to get off your lazy ass and earn your keep, like a man.

These born whiners are dragging the entire nation down. Perpetual whiners, like those BLM losers and their supporters will NEVER be an asset to this country.

This clown belongs on your Sambo list. He's obviously determined to remain a waste of space.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 16, 2022)

monkrules said:


> You'll never be able to reason with this loser. He's apparently highly skilled, after much practice, at making never-ending excuses for Blacks who still CHOOSE to fail.
> 
> It's easier to bitch and moan about being "oppressed," and rioting, looting, and accusing whitey of being a great big meanie - than it is to get off your lazy ads and learn your keep.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I’m sending him to the same place that antisemite Joe is. That’s where I put all the Sambos!

I honestly do think the reason that so many Democrats are so resentful of Jews - it shows up with all the Jew-hating venom they  spew - is because we are living proof that bigotry doesn’t keep people back. (Same with the Asians).

I mean, how can they keep blaming racism for the black underclass failing to move out of poverty when Jews, persecuted for millennia, arrived here penniless and uneducated, and a generation later, their kids all have college and grad degrees?

 The end objective with all the excuses about racism, and the teaching of CRT to convince our kids that blacks are all oppressed victims is….reparations. No way, Jose. Blacks can earn their way out of poverty the same way the Jews did.

Im with you. I am SO sick of of the excuses. Just stay in school and don’t f without birth control. That’s it.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 16, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yeah, I’m sending him to the same place that antisemite Joe is. That’s where I put all the Sambos!
> 
> I honestly do think the reason that so many Democrats are so resentful of Jews - it shows up with all the Jew-hating venom they spew - is because we are living proof that bigotry doesn’t keep people back. (Same with the Asians).



Sambos?  Yeah, you're not racist. 

It's nice to be able to switch off a minority status like you can do.  You are white when you want to be white, and Jewish when you want to be Jewish and play the victim card. 



Lisa558 said:


> I mean, how can they keep blaming racism for the black underclass failing to move out of poverty when Jews, persecuted for millennia, arrived here penniless and uneducated, and a generation later, their kids all have college and grad degrees?



Because you can switch it on and off whenever you want... that's the thing.  



Lisa558 said:


> The end objective with all the excuses about racism, and the teaching of CRT to convince our kids that blacks are all oppressed victims is….reparations. No way, Jose. Blacks can earn their way out of poverty the same way the Jews did.



Actually, we don't teach kids nearly enough how bad our racism is.    As stated, I watched a video on debt peonage in the South between reconstruction and the 1940's.  How blacks would be convicted of absolutely petty crimes, and then forced to work for free for white people.   

I have a degree in history.   I was never taught about this.  Never heard about it.  Heard about Jim Crow, yeah, but not this sort of thing.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 16, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I was trying to figure out which POS leftist he was. You’re right…he sounds like that obnoxious Danny.



Lol I wasn't sure if you knew him or not with you only being here less than a year.  I thought he might have left from people getting sick of hearing the same shit over and over again like OCD Joe.  I'm sure a lot of people just ignore him now and he created a sock to start all over again.


----------



## Laslow (Apr 17, 2022)

midcan5 said:


> Sure thing and Trump is a really good guy and the republicans all walked out of the SCOTUS confirmation to go to the bathroom and QAnon lady is smart person, - egad, you people are sad.
> 
> 'Faces of poverty: What racial, social groups are more likely to experience it?'
> 
> ...


What are your thoughts on Democrats saying that minorities are too stupid to get IDs or use a computer?  Have you seen the videos where they ask democrats on college campuses if getting an ID is racist?  A man named Van has a review channel called LFR family, and it blows his mind what democrats really think about minorities.


----------



## Laslow (Apr 17, 2022)

WTH_Progs? said:


> Speaking as a black Democrat, I like it when Democrats make excuses for us and I appreciate they put us into a racial class, because segregation distinctions and excuses are bitchn', and it's nice to know we receive a crutch, because less is expected of us.


The shocking not so soft racism by the democrat party is sickening.  I just posted a reply about the videos where they ask democrats on college campuses questions about minorities getting IDs.  It is gross.  One of my favorite review sites, LFR family, has a guy named Van who is watching all kinds of videos from Thomas Sowell to Ben Shapiro to get other perspectives.  He is a black man from DC.  He is shocked by some of the behavior of the people on 'his' side.  He is getting threats and losing some viewers for just watching these videos.


----------



## Stormlover (Apr 17, 2022)

Feminism and the removal of fathers.


----------



## Quasar44 (Apr 17, 2022)

Most black problems are due to bad decisions 
 . They make decisions with zero long term thinking


----------



## Laslow (Apr 17, 2022)

Quasar44 said:


> Most black problems are due to bad decisions
> . They make decisions with zero long term thinking


I think it is important to note that poor decisions is not a 'black' thing.  It is a poverty thing.  Plenty of white people have kids with no fathers and drop out of school.  It is just that white people can't blame their poverty on their skin color.


----------



## Quasar44 (Apr 17, 2022)

Laslow 
Stop blaming for your failures 
. Many of them are prone to extreme violence


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Lol I wasn't sure if you knew him or not with you only being here less than a year.  I thought he might have left from people getting sick of hearing the same shit over and over again like OCD Joe.  I'm sure a lot of people just ignore him now and he created a sock to start all over again.


Yeah, he’s on ignore - and now that Otto is too. It‘s frightening to see how many hypocritical haters we now have in this country who get joy at spewing venom at other Americans. It’s actually pretty unreal how quickly they turned into…..well…..whatever it is they are now.

My sister thinks that they have been brainwashed by the media like MSNBC and need mental help.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Laslow said:


> The shocking not so soft racism by the democrat party is sickening.  I just posted a reply about the videos where they ask democrats on college campuses questions about minorities getting IDs.  It is gross.  One of my favorite review sites, LFR family, has a guy named Van who is watching all kinds of videos from Thomas Sowell to Ben Shapiro to get other perspectives.  He is a black man from DC.  He is shocked by some of the behavior of the people on 'his' side.  He is getting threats and losing some viewers for just watching these videos.


It’s so true. A Democrat I know said that we have to give blacks money  because they are too illiterate to fill out s job application. Some of these Dems sound like the worst of the KKK.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Laslow said:


> I think it is important to note that poor decisions is not a 'black' thing.  It is a poverty thing.  Plenty of white people have kids with no fathers and drop out of school.  It is just that white people can't blame their poverty on their skin color.


Yes, and that was in my OP: that blacks are poor for the same reason whites are, and thus racism is not the cause. That Infuriated leftists.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 17, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Lol I wasn't sure if you knew him or not with you only being here less than a year. I thought he might have left from people getting sick of hearing the same shit over and over again like OCD Joe. I'm sure a lot of people just ignore him now and he created a sock to start all over again.



Oooh, I think Welfare Ray finally got tired of me pointing out his hypocrisy and put me on ignore.  Well, sad, so I can just keep mocking him without response. 



Lisa558 said:


> Yeah, he’s on ignore - and now that Otto is too. It‘s frightening to see how many hypocritical haters we now have in this country who get joy at spewing venom at other Americans. It’s actually pretty unreal how quickly they turned into…..well…..whatever it is they are now.
> 
> My sister thinks that they have been brainwashed by the media like MSNBC and need mental help.



Says the woman who thinks that posters in a mall are a vast conspiracy! 



Lisa558 said:


> It’s so true. A Democrat I know said that we have to give blacks money because they are too illiterate to fill out s job application. Some of these Dems sound like the worst of the KKK.



Naw, you're totally not racist. 



Lisa558 said:


> Yes, and that was in my OP: that blacks are poor for the same reason whites are, and thus racism is not the cause. That Infuriated leftists.



Whites didn't encounter 400 years of institutionalized racism.  Neither did Jews.  Neither did Asians.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yeah, he’s on ignore - and now that Otto is too. It‘s frightening to see how many hypocritical haters we now have in this country who get joy at spewing venom at other Americans. It’s actually pretty unreal how quickly they turned into…..well…..whatever it is they are now.
> 
> My sister thinks that they have been brainwashed by the media like MSNBC and need mental help.



It's plain as day who needs mental help around here.  

I like debating the other side as long as it's an intelligent debate, in fact I look forward to it; it's why I come here.  The problem with some is like it's arguing with a person that believes in Santa Clause.  You explain to them that Santa is a fictional character, you show them multiple evidence that they are wrong, and yet they keep insisting Santa Clause is real.  It's a fruitless debate because you can't have a discussion with people that live in their own phony as hell world.  They keep repeating the same shit over and over again.  I don't know what it is with some leftists.  Either they have serious mental issues or the intelligence of an 8 year old.  I think in many cases it's a little of both. 

So why waste my time?  Talking to some people is like talking to a wall, and I don't do that either.  I respect opinions no matter how wrong they are, but when people insist their opinions are facts regardless how many times we prove them wrong, you might as well be talking to a wall.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 17, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It's plain as day who needs mental help around here.
> 
> I like debating the other side as long as it's an intelligent debate, in fact I look forward to it; it's why I come here. The problem with some is like it's arguing with a person that believes in Santa Clause. You explain to them that Santa is a fictional character, you show them multiple evidence that they are wrong, and yet they keep insisting Santa Clause is real. It's a fruitless debate because you can't have a discussion with people that live in their own phony as hell world. They keep repeating the same shit over and over again. I don't know what it is with some leftists. Either they have serious mental issues or the intelligence of an 8 year old. I think in many cases it's a little of both.
> 
> So why waste my time? Talking to some people is like talking to a wall, and I don't do that either. I respect opinions no matter how wrong they are, but when people insist their opinions are facts regardless how many times we prove them wrong, you might as well be talking to a wall.



I'm kind of horrified you can't spell "Santa Claus" properly, Welfare Ray.  

The reality is you are a massive hypocrite... only kept alive by the generosity of a liberal compassionate society you hate.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 17, 2022)

Laslow said:


> The shocking not so soft racism by the democrat party is sickening.  I just posted a reply about the videos where they ask democrats on college campuses questions about minorities getting IDs.  It is gross.  One of my favorite review sites, LFR family, has a guy named Van who is watching all kinds of videos from Thomas Sowell to Ben Shapiro to get other perspectives.  He is a black man from DC.  He is shocked by some of the behavior of the people on 'his' side.  He is getting threats and losing some viewers for just watching these videos.



Democrats are like Nazis.  You either march in lockstep with them or you're the enemy.  Individual thought is not allowed.  That's why they're so threatened by Musk taking over Twitter and allowing all opinions to be posted.  In the leftist world, only one opinion is allowed, and that is the leftist opinion.  

They live in fear that others may hear our message and they lose some sheep.  It's why they have protests at colleges when a conservative has a speaking engagement.  It's why the most popular social media sites and Hollywood restrict the conservative message.  Conservatism is common sense; pragmatism.  Man has no ability to control the climate, taking guns away from good people will only give us a society where the criminals and cops have the guns, you are the gender you were born with and that can't be changed.  This is common sense, something a lot of leftists are void of.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 17, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Democrats are like Nazis. You either march in lockstep with them or you're the enemy. Individual thought is not allowed. That's why they're so threatened by Musk taking over Twitter and allowing all opinions to be posted. In the leftist world, only one opinion is allowed, and that is the leftist opinion.



Or we have a legitimate concern about how mass media is controlled by only a few rich people.  



Ray From Cleveland said:


> They live in fear that others may hear our message and they lose some sheep. It's why they have protests at colleges when a conservative has a speaking engagement. It's why the most popular social media sites and Hollywood restrict the conservative message. Conservatism is common sense; pragmatism. Man has no ability to control the climate, taking guns away from good people will only give us a society where the criminals and cops have the guns, you are the gender you were born with and that can't be changed. This is common sense, something a lot of leftists are void of.



Common sense is regurgitating Welfare Ray's bigotries... 

Human activity is causing climate change. 
Most gun deaths are suicide and domestic violence
Gender is more complicated than genitals. 

Sadly, you get upset about these stupid social issues, then wake up wondering why you live in a slum.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Democrats are like Nazis.  You either march in lockstep with them or you're the enemy.  Individual thought is not allowed.  That's why they're so threatened by Musk taking over Twitter and allowing all opinions to be posted.  In the leftist world, only one opinion is allowed, and that is the leftist opinion.


Precisely. That is why Obama wanted to have a governmental agency thar has the right to censor media content that had “misinformation.” (That’s the word they used for any truth they don’t want voters knowing.) They are desperate to keep the truth from gullible Americans who are falling for their propaganda and lies.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Democrats are like Nazis.  You either march in lockstep with them or you're the enemy.  Individual thought is not allowed.  That's why they're so threatened by Musk taking over Twitter and allowing all opinions to be posted.  In the leftist world, only one opinion is allowed, and that is the leftist opinion.


True. And if you deviate from Democrat narrative, they become infuriated and start in with the name-calling and insults: Racist! Nazi! It’s their childish way of stopping a debate when they know they have no defense.


Ray From Cleveland said:


> They live in fear that others may hear our message and they lose some sheep.  It's why they have protests at colleges when a conservative has a speaking engagement.  It's why the most popular social media sites and Hollywood restrict the conservative message.  Conservatism is common sense; pragmatism.  Man has no ability to control the climate, taking guns away from good people will only give us a society where the criminals and cops have the guns, you are the gender you were born with and that can't be changed.  This is common sense, something a lot of leftists are void of.


Yes. They have everything upside down. How, for example, does it make sense to allow thousands of illegal aliens into our country without a COVID test (and then fly them in the dead of night Throughout the nation) yet require American citizens returning from vacation to have a COVID test and then be barred if they’re positive?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yes. They have everything upside down. How, for example, does it make sense to allow thousands of illegal aliens into our country without a COVID test (and then fly them in the dead of night Throughout the nation) yet require American citizens returning from vacation to have a COVID test and then be barred if they’re positive?



My thought is that they want to pack this country with as many illegals as possible.  When the polls show they are going to get slaughtered at midterms, they will have nothing to lose.  Grant them amnesty to rig the election again. 

What they don't realize is the people most pissed off about it are the legal immigrants.  They waited years, went through the expense, waited in line to come to this country, and now Dementia and the Democrats are just going to open the doors to anybody?  If I'm in line for hours at Cedar Point to get on a certain ride, and somebody from my neighborhood cuts in front of the line, I don't care if he's from my neighborhood or not.   Kick him out.  If you allow and even invite him or her to cut in line, then I'm never coming back to your amusement park again.  Provided their amnesty fails, they are going to lose much of the Hispanic vote and they won't be coming back.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> My thought is that they want to pack this country with as many illegals as possible.  When the polls show they are going to get slaughtered at midterms, they will have nothing to lose.  Grant them amnesty to rig the election again.
> 
> What they don't realize is the people most pissed off about it are the legal immigrants.  They waited years, went through the expense, waited in line to come to this country, and now Dementia and the Democrats are just going to open the doors to anybody?  If I'm in line for hours at Cedar Point to get on a certain ride, and somebody from my neighborhood cuts in front of the line, I don't care if he's from my neighborhood or not.   Kick him out.  If you allow and even invite him or her to cut in line, then I'm never coming back to your amusement park again.  Provided their amnesty fails, they are going to lose much of the Hispanic vote and they won't be coming back.


They’ve already lost the Hispanic vote. Have you seen how low Biden’s approval is among them? You can be sure that they will turn out in droves to vote for the Republicans in the midterms and halt Biden’s harmful, unjust policies.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> They’ve already lost the Hispanic vote. Have you seen how low Biden’s approval is among them? You can be sure that they will turn out in droves to vote for the Republicans in the midterms and halt Biden’s harmful, unjust policies.



As far as the Democrats are concerned, a minority is a minority.  They all think alike since they don't have white skin.  They fail to realize that Hispanics are much more politically and socially involved than blacks.  They have a stronghold of the black vote because not many blacks are interested in politics.  They vote Democrat without realizing why.  

Hispanics are generally more religious and family oriented.  They don't go for guys wearing dresses and entering rest rooms and female locker rooms.  They don't appreciate the concept of teachers telling their kids they can be any gender they desire at a very young age.  It may take some time, but the Hispanic vote may eventually be a majority Republican down the road.  If that takes place, the Democrats are doomed.


----------



## DBA (Apr 17, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Whites didn't encounter 400 years of institutionalized racism. Neither did Jews. Neither did Asians.



Are you attempting to say that Asians and many other immigrants from other countries who have succeeded started with some sort of advantage over a black person born in the US in the last 40-50 years? You are VERY, VERY much wrong.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

DBA said:


> Are you attempting to say that Asians and many other immigrants from other countries who have succeeded started with some sort of advantage over a black person born in the US in the last 40-50 years? You are VERY, VERY much wrong.


I am saying that black people in this country continue to experience racism


----------



## DBA (Apr 17, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Human activity is causing climate change.
> Most gun deaths are suicide and domestic violence
> Gender is more complicated than genitals.



Maybe everyone can stop breathing. That sure would help your cause.

If people want to kill themselves or beat someone up, they will find a way.

Actually, not it is not more complicated.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> As far as the Democrats are concerned, a minority is a minority.  They all think alike since they don't have white skin.  They fail to realize that Hispanics are much more politically and socially involved than blacks.  They have a stronghold of the black vote because not many blacks are interested in politics.  They vote Democrat without realizing why.
> 
> Hispanics are generally more religious and family oriented.  They don't go for guys wearing dresses and entering rest rooms and female locker rooms.  They don't appreciate the concept of teachers telling their kids they can be any gender they desire at a very young age.  It may take some time, but the Hispanic vote may eventually be a majority Republican down the road.  If that takes place, the Democrats are doomed.


The idea that YOU can speak for blacks and Hispanics is incredibly racist


----------



## bripat9643 (Apr 17, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Hey, check it out... here's a guy who worked very hard, made good decisions, and even SERVED HIS COUNTRY, and the fucking racist white cops STILL treated him like this.


What do you think that proves?


----------



## DBA (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> The idea that YOU can speak for blacks and Hispanics is incredibly racist



Weird, because I hear black people all the time talk about so called “white priviledge”. How would they know if they aren’t white? Are they racists too?


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> My thought is that they want to pack this country with as many illegals as possible.  When the polls show they are going to get slaughtered at midterms, they will have nothing to lose.  Grant them amnesty to rig the election again.
> 
> What they don't realize is the people most pissed off about it are the legal immigrants.  They waited years, went through the expense, waited in line to come to this country, and now Dementia and the Democrats are just going to open the doors to anybody?  If I'm in line for hours at Cedar Point to get on a certain ride, and somebody from my neighborhood cuts in front of the line, I don't care if he's from my neighborhood or not.   Kick him out.  If you allow and even invite him or her to cut in line, then I'm never coming back to your amusement park again.  Provided their amnesty fails, they are going to lose much of the Hispanic vote and they won't be coming back.


That is especially true of the Cuban immigrants. They are Republican voters, and self-sufficient, and you noticed how quickly Biden took to the podium to tell them they’re not wanted here? Then in the next breath he welcomes in the unskilled, semi-literate Latinos from Central America.

Remember that old Syms commercial, in which the owner said “an educated consumer is our best customer?” The Democrat slogan would be: “an ignorant, unskilled, uneducated migrant who can’t support his family is our Best Future Voter!”


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> That is especially true of the Cuban immigrants. They are Republican voters, and self-sufficient, and you noticed how quickly Biden took to the podium to tell them they’re not wanted here? Then in the next breath he welcomes in the unskilled, semi-literate Latinos from Central America.
> 
> Remember that old Syms commercial, in which the owner said “an educated consumer is our best customer?” The Democrat slogan would be: “an ignorant, unskilled, uneducated migrant who can’t support his family is our Best Future Voter!”



That's the Biden administration for ya.  

If you are a legal immigrant, you must take tests, you must be tested for Covid, you must be vaccinated.  If you are an illegal, you don't have to get tested or vaxed.  If you are an illegal, you get a free smart phone and free transportation to anyplace in the US you'd like to live.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> The idea that YOU can speak for blacks and Hispanics is incredibly racist



The idea that you call it racist tells me you never looked up the definition of the word.  Would you like me to and post it for you?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The idea that you call it racist tells me you never looked up the definition of the word.  Would you like me to and post it for you?


You do not get to speak for black people.

Its racist


Duh


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Asians and Jews experience bigotry, too, yet it doesn’t keep them mired in poverty. That’s because they value 1) intact families with children after marriage, and 2) higher education. If the black underclass followed the example of these two other minorities, they‘d move out of poverty.

It’s such a simple concept, and proven by other maligned minorities, and yet, we still have the leftists wanting blacks to believe they‘re oppressed victims.

Again, blacks have had favorable treatment via affirmative action for two generations. If the lowest of them hasn’t made it out of poverty in all that time, when other persecuted minorities - like the Jews, and WITHOUT affirmative action in their favor - have done so in ONE generation, then it’s time to admit that it’s not racism, but personal choices.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> You do not get to speak for black people.
> 
> Its racist
> 
> ...



Go away troll.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Asians and Jews experience bigotry, too, yet it doesn’t keep them mired in poverty. That’s because they value 1) intact families with children after marriage, and 2) higher education. If the black underclass followed the example of these two other minorities, they‘d move out of poverty.
> 
> It’s such a simple concept, and proven by other maligned minorities, and yet, we still have the leftists wanting blacks to believe they‘re oppressed victims.
> 
> Again, blacks have had favorable treatment via affirmative action for two generations. If the lowest of them hasn’t made it out of poverty in all that time, when other persecuted minorities - like the Jews, and WITHOUT affirmative action in their favor - have some so in ONE generation, then it’s time to admit that it’s not racism, but personal choices.


No it's at least partly racism


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Go away troll.


I accept your concession


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> That's the Biden administration for ya.
> 
> If you are a legal immigrant, you must take tests, you must be tested for Covid, you must be vaccinated.  If you are an illegal, you don't have to get tested or vaxed.  If you are an illegal, you get a free smart phone and free transportation to anyplace in the US you'd like to live.


Democrat Bizzaro World. It only makes sense when you see it in context: an Administration that wants to lower America to 3rd world status.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Examining systemic racism, advancing racial equity | Stanford News
					

Black History Month is an opportunity to reflect on the Black experience in America and examine continuing systemic racism and discrimination in the U.S. – issues many Stanford scholars are tackling in their research and scholarship.




					news.stanford.edu


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> No it's at least partly racism


Even if so, they could rise above it, like the hard-working, motivated, disciplined Jews and Asians did. The reason they don’t is due to bad choices.

And the Jews and Asians rose above it without all the affirmative action help the blacks are getting!

There is NO excuse for a black not to have at least a community college degree or a vocational certificate. Taxpayers even pay the tuition! Enough with the excuses.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Examining systemic racism, advancing racial equity | Stanford News
> 
> 
> Black History Month is an opportunity to reflect on the Black experience in America and examine continuing systemic racism and discrimination in the U.S. – issues many Stanford scholars are tackling in their research and scholarship.
> ...


Oh….a lib college has an opinion. Color me surprised.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Oh….a lib college has an opinion. Color me surprised.


Yeah stanford.  Not a good school like a southern bible school.  Lol


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Even if so, they could rise above it, like the hard-working, motivated, disciplined Jews and Asians did. The reason they don’t is due to bad choices.
> 
> And the Jews and Asians rose above it without all the affirmative action help the blacks are getting!
> 
> There is NO excuse for a black not to have at least a community college degree or a vocational certificate. Taxpayers even pay the tuition! Enough with the excuses.


Easy for you to say rise above something you have never gone thru


Racism exists


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Even if so, they could rise above it, like the hard-working, motivated, disciplined Jews and Asians did. The reason they don’t is due to bad choices.
> 
> And the Jews and Asians rose above it without all the affirmative action help the blacks are getting!
> 
> There is NO excuse for a black not to have at least a community college degree or a vocational certificate. Taxpayers even pay the tuition! Enough with the excuses.



Correct.  My former industry is short over 80,000 drivers, and it's expected to get worse as we baby boomers retire.  Driving pays well to extremely well.  In fact we have college educated drivers because they make more money driving a truck then exercising their education in the field they chose.  

Don't get me wrong, drivers were always in demand, and yes, to blacks as well.  But it's never been this bad before.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Easy for you to say rise above something you have never gone thru
> 
> 
> Racism exists


And antisemitism exists.

Are you really this much of an idiot? How the f do you know what I’ve gone through? Or my parents? Or THEIR parents? Jews have been experiencing antisemitism in every generation, and STILL manage to come out on top.

Blacks born since the 1970s have experienced FAVORITISM, and there is still a subset mired n poverty. The rest of them - most are middle class - took advantage of the opportunities this country was giving them, and moved forward.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> And antisemitism exists.
> 
> Are you really this much of an idiot? How the f do you know what I’ve gone through? Or my parents? Or THEIR parents? Jews have been experiencing antisemitism in every generation, and STILL manage to come out on top.
> 
> Blacks born since the 1970s have experienced FAVORITISM, and there is still a subset mired n poverty. The rest of them - most are middle class - took advantage of the opportunities this country was giving them, and moved forward.


Antisemitism does exist.  But you cant see religion in a job interview 


You cant hide black.  They still experience massive discrimination


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Correct.  My former industry is short over 80,000 drivers, and it's expected to get worse as we baby boomers retire.  Driving pays well to extremely well.  In fact we have college educated drivers because they make more money driving a truck then exercising their education in the field they chose.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, drivers were always in demand, and yes, to blacks as well.  But it's never been this bad before.


Excellent example! There was a recent article how Amazon or Target or someone was paying $100,000 to their first-year truckers.

Why aren’t the blacks in poverty taking whatever training is needed for the trucker license, and taking that job? They‘re begging for truckers! And let’s say it’s not that much….let’s say it’s closer to $70,000. Still good money. And if they had made the right choice and got married before siring children, the wife could have at least a part time job bringing in another $20k or so. They could be a HH of $100k, or more, and yet we hear…..waaaaa! They’re oppressed! Racism!

I am really getting sick of all the excuses for lazy people and all the derision for responsible people who made the right decisions.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Antisemitism does exist.  But you cant see religion in a job interview
> 
> 
> You cant hide black.  They still experience massive discrimination


Another excuse. These days, blacks are favored over whites for jobs!


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> And antisemitism exists.
> 
> Are you really this much of an idiot? How the f do you know what I’ve gone through? Or my parents? Or THEIR parents? Jews have been experiencing antisemitism in every generation, and STILL manage to come out on top.
> 
> Blacks born since the 1970s have experienced FAVORITISM, and there is still a subset mired n poverty. The rest of them - most are middle class - took advantage of the opportunities this country was giving them, and moved forward.



I don't usually agree with the commie, but one comment I do agree with Warren Buffet:  If you were born in the USA, you are already on second base.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Another excuse. These days, blacks are favored over whites for jobs!


What you call excuse others call reality

Racism exists and you have lived a life of white privilege if you cant see that


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Excellent example! There was a recent article how Amazon or Target or someone was paying $100,000 to their first-year truckers.
> 
> Why aren’t the blacks in poverty taking whatever training is needed for the trucker license, and taking that job? They‘re begging for truckers! And let’s say it’s not that much….let’s say it’s closer to $70,000. Still good money. And if they had made the right choice and got married before siring children, the wife could have at least a part time job bringing in another $20k or so. They could be a HH of $100k, or more, and yet we hear…..waaaaa! They’re oppressed! Racism!
> 
> I am really getting sick of all the excuses for lazy people and all the derision for responsible people who made the right decisions.



It was Walmart that published the jobs.  They are offering their dock workers free training and a job.  It may take a few years of experience before you reach six figures, but nothing comes without a sacrifice.  As you said, it still pays pretty well during that time.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Yeah stanford.  Not a good school like a southern bible school.  Lol


I went to college in the urban northeast, so not sure what you’re implying.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I went to college in the urban northeast, so not sure what you’re implying.


Was it a liberal college?  Lol


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It was Walmart that published the jobs.  They are offering their dock workers free training and a job.  It may take a few years of experience before you reach six figures, but nothing comes without a sacrifice.  As you said, it still pays pretty well during that time.


Yes, and it’s a great opportunity. Free training, and a chance to hit six figures within a few years? We should not be giving out welfare while all these good-paying jobs go unfilled.

And for anybody reading this who says “well….what if blacks don’t want to drive a truck?” Well, tough shit. When there are jobs available, and well-paying ones at that, you take them. Whatever happened to pride in supporting oneself and one’s family?


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Was it a liberal college?  Lol


It was…..as I said, this was in a Northeastern city. But I was a liberal back then. You know the saying….if you’re under 30 and not a liberal, you have no heart; if you’re over 30 and still a liberal, you have no brains.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> It was…..as I said, this was in a Northeastern city. But I was a liberal back then. You know the saying….if you’re under 30 and not a liberal, you have no heart; if you’re over 30 and still a liberal, you have no brains.


Yeah I guess all the good schools are liberal


These liberals control everything!  Lol


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Yeah I guess all the good schools are liberal
> 
> 
> These liberals control everything!  Lol


Thanks for noting I went to a good school.

But as I said, I grew up. And this was 40 years ago, before the liberal universities went crazy left and had “No Whites on Campus Day” and all their nonsense.

Of course, even back then the blacks had Blacks Only clubs and events, so anti-white bias was still allowed to ferment.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Thanks for noting I went to a good school.
> 
> But as I said, I grew up. And this was 40 years ago, before the liberal universities went crazy left and had “No Whites on Campus Day” and all their nonsense.
> 
> Of course, even back then the blacks had Blacks Only clubs and events, so anti-white bias was still allowed to ferment.


Of course it was a good school.   It was liberal


Can you name a good conservative university?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yes, and it’s a great opportunity. Free training, and a chance to hit six figures within a few years? We should not be giving out welfare while all these good-paying jobs go unfilled.
> 
> And for anybody reading this who says “well….what if blacks don’t want to drive a truck?” Well, tough shit. When there are jobs available, and well-paying ones at that, you take them. Whatever happened to pride in supporting oneself and one’s family?



They told me that too.  Well WTF, do you think I wanted to drive a truck in the middle of a snowstorm we often get here in the northeast?  Hell no.  But when I was younger I had to find a career.  I got sick of lower paying non-skilled jobs so I took the money and effort to learn a new trade.  With the money I made I invested in real estate and became a landlord which is a part-time job on top of my full time job. 

What I did, any American of any race can do.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Of course it was a good school.   It was liberal
> 
> 
> Can you name a good conservative university?


I don’t know. I’m not into universities anymore, but I do beleive there are some excellent and highly competitive ones.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I don’t know. I’m not into universities anymore, but I do beleive there are some excellent and highly competitive ones.


Yeah you just cant name one. lol


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> They told me that too.  Well WTF, do you think I wanted to drive a truck in the middle of a snowstorm we often get here in the northeast?  Hell no.  But when I was younger I had to find a career.  I got sick of lower paying non-skilled jobs so I took the money and effort to learn a new trade.  With the money I made I invested in real estate and became a landlord which is a part-time job on top of my full time job.
> 
> What I did, any American of any race can do.


Good for you.

And you hit on another problem with leftists. They are snobby elitists who think everyone has to go to college, and they turn their noses up at the trades. I’ve found that some of my most interesting conversations are with skilled tradespeople - the HVAC guy, the plumber, etc. - who have their heads screwed on straight. They are almost always Republican voters, fully understand that Democrats look down on them, are hard workers, and rightfully believe that people should support their own families.

Then you consider my neighborhood - affluent homeowners. I can‘t get a teenager to shovel my driveway for even $50 for 30 minutes work! Their parents discourage it. They have convinced their kids that they don’t have to do “menial labor.” NOT the way I was brought up!


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Yeah you just cant name one. lol


Average GPA for entering students ar Hillsdale College is 3.9. VERY competitive.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Average GPA for entering students ar Hillsdale College is 3.9. VERY competitive.


Is Hilldale conservative?


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Precisely. That is why Obama wanted to have a governmental agency thar has the right to censor media content that had “misinformation.” (That’s the word they used for any truth they don’t want voters knowing.) They are desperate to keep the truth from gullible Americans who are falling for their propaganda and lies.


Wow, you'll believe anything, won't you. 

The real problem, of course, is that a nut like Alex Jones can go out and say all the kids killed at Sandy Hook were crisis actors, and that has credibility with some of you people. 



Lisa558 said:


> True. And if you deviate from Democrat narrative, they become infuriated and start in with the name-calling and insults: Racist! Nazi! It’s their childish way of stopping a debate when they know they have no defense.



It's funny to watch two open racists complain theyare being called Nazis. 



Lisa558 said:


> Yes. They have everything upside down. How, for example, does it make sense to allow thousands of illegal aliens into our country without a COVID test (and then fly them in the dead of night Throughout the nation) yet require American citizens returning from vacation to have a COVID test and then be barred if they’re positive?



Most of the undocumented are sent home immediately.   You guys need to keep your story straight. Is Biden putting them in the same camps Trump was or is he flying them around the country?


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 17, 2022)

DBA said:


> Maybe everyone can stop breathing. That sure would help your cause.
> 
> If people want to kill themselves or beat someone up, they will find a way.
> 
> Actually, not it is not more complicated.



Um, no, what would help is not burning tons of carbon every day... 

If that were true, why do countries that ban guns have a much lower murder rate than we have?

Um, yeah, actually, it is more complicated.  Gender is a social construct, not a biological one. 



Lisa558 said:


> That is especially true of the Cuban immigrants. They are Republican voters, and self-sufficient, and you noticed how quickly Biden took to the podium to tell them they’re not wanted here? Then in the next breath he welcomes in the unskilled, semi-literate Latinos from Central America.



Is this really the comparison you want to make?  Cuban Americans were welcomed here and helped by the government because we wanted to show Latin America that Communism, Bad before they started getting any ideas themselves.  

Until Castro got wise and started emptying his mental hospitals and prisons on our shores... Whoops.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Asians and Jews experience bigotry, too, yet it doesn’t keep them mired in poverty. That’s because they value 1) intact families with children after marriage, and 2) higher education. If the black underclass followed the example of these two other minorities, they‘d move out of poverty.



Jews and Asians came here by CHOICE.  Blacks were brought over in chains and experienced 400 years of policies to keep them down.  



Lisa558 said:


> Again, blacks have had favorable treatment via affirmative action for two generations. If the lowest of them hasn’t made it out of poverty in all that time, when other persecuted minorities - like the Jews, and WITHOUT affirmative action in their favor - have done so in ONE generation, then it’s time to admit that it’s not racism, but personal choices.



Nope.  Jews aren't a race.  There were never the equivalent of Jim Crow Laws or Driving While Black arrests directed at them. Our entire history has been one of oppressing black people, and then we make it a crime to teach that history in some states.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 17, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Correct. My former industry is short over 80,000 drivers, and it's expected to get worse as we baby boomers retire. Driving pays well to extremely well. In fact we have college educated drivers because they make more money driving a truck then exercising their education in the field they chose.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, drivers were always in demand, and yes, to blacks as well. But it's never been this bad before.



You mean people don't want to do a dull, boring job?  Amazing.  

Hey, check this out from a PRO-Trucker website. 









						The Truck Driver Shortage in 2021 - The Dirty Truth No One Talks About
					

The REAL reasons there is a truck driver shortage. What steps are being taken to end it? Do they intend to EVER do what it takes to end it?




					www.smart-trucking.com
				




_Driving a truck for a living, for the *average driver* nowadays, simply doesn’t  cover the cost of paying the bills at home.

The cost of living on the road doesn’t allow for setting aside enough money for a rainy day or for a retirement fund.

The money is just not there anymore, which is too bad, because this was once a great job.









						The Truck Driver Shortage in 2021 - The Dirty Truth No One Talks About
					

The REAL reasons there is a truck driver shortage. What steps are being taken to end it? Do they intend to EVER do what it takes to end it?




					www.smart-trucking.com
				



_


----------



## Unkotare (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> And antisemitism exists.
> 
> Are you really this much of an idiot? How the f do you know what I’ve gone through? Or my parents? Or THEIR parents? ...



So you might find it a bit offensive if some presumptuous yahoo on the internet deigned to tell you just what your problems really are and how you should "fix" your life, as if talking down to a small child?


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 17, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> They told me that too. Well WTF, do you think I wanted to drive a truck in the middle of a snowstorm we often get here in the northeast? Hell no. But when I was younger I had to find a career. I got sick of lower paying non-skilled jobs so I took the money and effort to learn a new trade. With the money I made I invested in real estate and became a landlord which is a part-time job on top of my full time job.
> 
> What I did, any American of any race can do.



Yes, you to can be like Welfare Ray. 

Collecting a disability check because you never bothered to learn another job skill. 
Living in a slum because all the upwardly mobile people left you behind. 
Putting cameras on your house's perimeter and listening to the police scanner because the scary negroes live next door.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Is Hilldale conservative?


You never heard of Hillsdale? It’s one of the most conservatives colleges in the country. 

Are you one of those snobby liberals who think only liberals are intelligent? Among my friends who voted for Trump are a scientist, a biologist, a dentist, an MBA very a top program, a Ph.D., and a lawyer.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> You never heard of Hillsdale? It’s one of the most conservatives colleges in the country.


Not exactly ivy league


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 17, 2022)

Here's why Trucking has shortages.... 

_In the US, “there are in fact millions of truck drivers — people who have commercial driver’s licenses — who are not driving trucks and are not using those commercial driving licenses, more than we would even need,” Belzer said. “That’s because people have gotten recruited into this job, maybe paid to get trained in this job, and realize, ‘This is not for me. This is not adequate for what I’m doing.’”

When it comes to recruitment, it’s hard to get people into the business, especially young people. There’s often a gap between when people leave school (say, age 18) and when they can legally drive a truck across state lines (typically age 21), which means those folks may have already found jobs and aren’t going to be wooed away to become truckers.

*There are other barriers to entry, like schooling (the costs of which can vary) and the ability to obtain a special class of driver’s license.* Around the world, training and testing for truck drivers stalled because of Covid-19 lockdowns. The industry also struggles to attract women into the workforce because of safety concerns and inadequate accommodations along routes and at rest stops.

But truck driving also isn’t the job it used to be. *In the United States, for example, deregulation of the industry, which accelerated in the 1980s, alongside the decline of unions, means trucker wages have been shrinking for years. But the work itself hasn’t really changed. It involves long hours, and a lot of that can be time spent uncompensated. “You could spend all day or a day and a night waiting around to get a load at a port site offloaded and loaded up, and you’re not getting paid for any of that time,*” said Matthew Hockenberry, a professor at Fordham University who studies the media of global production.

This feeds not just into the recruitment problem, but also the retention problem. Truck drivers are burned out. Long-haul drivers, especially — that is, those who are moving cargo long distances or across states — typically get paid for the trips they take, and they have to go where the cargo needs to go, with little control over when and where. “The route is the route,” as Weaver put it._









						Where have all the truck drivers gone?
					

Pandemic supply chain disruptions are exacerbating a yearslong trucker shortage.




					www.vox.com


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Not exactly ivy league


Sure it is. Right in the ballpark. It’s better than Princeton, which is 3.87.  Brown was 3.94. 

 Even Harvard is 4.04, just a touch over Hillsdale.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Sure it is. Right in the ballpark. It’s better than Princeton, which is 3.87.  Brown was 3.94.
> 
> Even Harvard is 4.04, just a touch over Hillsdale.


Do know the schools in the ivy league?  Are you kidding?

Gpa doesnt cut it alone


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Do know the schools in the ivy league?  Are you kidding?
> 
> Gpa doesnt cut it alone


You asked for the name of an excellent, competitive conservative college, as if to imply that only liberals are intelligent, and I gave you one. Now you move the goalposts.

I am certain that I am more intelligent, and mature, than you, for example. No offense.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> You asked for the name of an excellent, competitive conservative college, as if to imply that only liberals are intelligent, and I gave you one. Now you move the goalposts.
> 
> I am certain that I am more intelligent, and mature, than you, for example. No offense.


I'll give you one.

My advanced degrees trump your little BA degree anyday.  


No offense


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> I'll give you one.
> 
> My advanced degrees trump your little BA degree anyday.
> 
> ...


What makes you assume I have only a BA? And what were your advanced degrees in, what college did you graduate from, what was your GPA, were you invited into Phi Beta Kappa as a junior or senior, and were you summa or magna?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> What makes you assume I have only a BA? And what were your advanced degrees in, what college did you graduate from, what was your GPA, were you invited into Phi Beta Kappa as a junior or senior, and were you summa or magna?


Yawn.  Now you bore me


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Yawn.  Now you bore me


Knew it, you flunkie. I recognize a State U student who dropped out after his first semester.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Knew it, you flunkie. I recognize a State U student who dropped out after his first semester.


Yaaaaaaaawn


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Yaaaaaaaawn


Got ya.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Got ya.


Ugh you cant debate.  Everything is personal


Dismissed


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Ugh you cant debate.  Everything is personal
> 
> 
> Dismissed


Says the person who says “yaaawn” when he can‘t argue a point.

Something tells me I’m arguing with a mentally and emotionally undeveloped man of 30 still living with Mom. So….bye, bye. Come back when you grow up.


----------



## Laslow (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Yeah you just cant name one. lol


You are an interesting little bugger.  Purdue used to be fairly conservative.  Neil Armstrong and all that.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Says the person who says “yaaawn” when he can‘t argue a point.
> 
> Something tells me I’m arguing with a mentally and emotionally undeveloped man of 30 still living with Mom. So….bye, bye. Come back when you grow up.


You know absolutely nothing about me so all you do is lie

It destroys your credibility in a actual debate


I dont need to.lie about you but lies are all you have


You are dismissed


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Laslow said:


> You are an interesting little bugger.  Purdue used to be fairly conservative.  Neil Armstrong and all that.


How nice for them


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Laslow said:


> You are an interesting little bugger.  Purdue used to be fairly conservative.  Neil Armstrong and all that.


I just put the bugger on ignore. One thing that may have escaped your notice is that he just “joined” yesterday - and is already out with hundreds of childish posts mocking and insulting conservative members. That tells me he is a banned member - for obvious reasons. I decided to have some fun with him/her/ but he/she/it can‘t even debate, so I put it on ignore.

Oh, and I see you’re new here. Welcome. I hope you have a thick skin. Some of these buggers get VERY nasty.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I just put the bugger on ignore. One thing that may have escaped your notice is that he just “joined” yesterday - and is already out with hundreds of childish posts mocking and insulting conservative members. That tells me he is a banned member - for obvious reasons. I decided to have some fun with him/her/ but he/she/it can‘t even debate, so I put it on ignore.
> 
> Oh, and I see you’re new here. Welcome. I hope you have a thick skin. Some of these buggers get VERY nasty.


Thank god.  Now I can correct your posts without comment


----------



## Laslow (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Easy for you to say rise above something you have never gone thru
> 
> 
> Racism exists


Of course racism exists.  That does not negate that dropping out of school and having kids is a primary road to poverty.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Laslow said:


> Of course racism exists.  That does not negate that dropping out of school and having kids is a primary road to poverty.


But racism also plays a part in the ability of young black people to get ahead


----------



## Laslow (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> But racism also plays a part in the ability of young black people to get ahead


I'm sure that is true, however racism can't be a blanket excuse for very basic decisions that lead to a life of poverty.  Stay in school, get married, and have a job.  Then children.  Even though racism is not fair, people would have a much better chance if they did those things.  All colors.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Laslow said:


> Of course racism exists.  That does not negate that dropping out of school and having kids is a primary road to poverty.


Just as antisemitism exists, and just as bigotry towards Asians exists. 

That these two groups have succeeded - and well above the average - just shows that staying in school and delaying children until one is settled and financially able overcomes prejudice. 

Leftists hate that type of talk, given that it credits (or blames) success (or lack thereof) on personal choices.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Just as antisemitism exists, and just as bigotry towards Asians exists.
> 
> That these two groups have succeeded - and well above the average - just shows that staying in school and delaying children until one is settled and financially able overcomes prejudice.
> 
> Leftists hate that type of talk, given that it credits (or blames) success (or lack thereof) on personal choices.



Because they aren't comparable.  

There's a difference between the prejudice that an immigrant group encounters before it assimilates, and a 400 year policy of keeping a population oppressed.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Laslow said:


> I'm sure that is true, however racism can't be a blanket excuse for very basic decisions that lead to a life of poverty.  Stay in school, get married, and have a job.  Then children.  Even though racism is not fair, people would have a much better chance if they did those things.  All colors.


Another poster put up a study that showed that only 5% of black children in two-parent families are living in poverty.

1. Finish high school (at least)
2. No babies til after marriage

Race irrelevant.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Laslow said:


> I'm sure that is true, however racism can't be a blanket excuse for very basic decisions that lead to a life of poverty.  Stay in school, get married, and have a job.  Then children.  Even though racism is not fair, people would have a much better chance if they did those things.  All colors.


Of course that is true.  But the claim being made here is racism has no impact at all and that is simply false


----------



## beautress (Apr 17, 2022)

midcan5 said:


> Sure thing and Trump is a really good guy and the republicans all walked out of the SCOTUS confirmation to go to the bathroom and QAnon lady is smart person, - egad, you people are sad.
> 
> 'Faces of poverty: What racial, social groups are more likely to experience it?'
> 
> ...


Well, inspired by your kind courage, maybe when Trump becomes the next President, we'll put a white Christian male crusader in the next vacancy to head SCOTUS.  And we'll announce it ahead of time with the joy of rubbing it in afterward.


----------



## Mac-7 (Apr 17, 2022)

beautress said:


> Well, inspired by your kind courage, maybe when Trump becomes the next President, we'll put a white Christian male crusader in the next vacancy to head SCOTUS.  And we'll announce it ahead of time with the joy of rubbing it in afterward.


Libs keep forgetting that any game they can invent conservatives can learn to play


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> Libs keep forgetting that any game they can invent conservatives can learn to play


Like reagan did


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Another poster put up a study that showed that only 5% of black children in two-parent families are living in poverty.
> 
> 1. Finish high school (at least)
> 2. No babies til after marriage
> ...



And how does that get them a job that requires a college degree (when there are racist shits like you in the Admissions offices?) 
Or someone in HR who rejects resumes with names like Jamal or Lakeisha on them?  
Or the cop who pulls someone over on a pretextual reason to search their car?


----------



## Mac-7 (Apr 17, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> And how does that get them a job that requires a college degree (when there are racist shits like you in the Admissions offices?)
> Or someone in HR who rejects resumes with names like Jamal or Lakeisha on them?
> Or the cop who pulls someone over on a pretextual reason to search their car?


You  use a hypothetical to justify government scripting results for blacks

which is not governments job


----------



## Laslow (Apr 17, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> And how does that get them a job that requires a college degree (when there are racist shits like you in the Admissions offices?)
> Or someone in HR who rejects resumes with names like Jamal or Lakeisha on them?
> Or the cop who pulls someone over on a pretextual reason to search their car?


Joe, can we agree that racism is a problem and that dropping out of high school and having kids without fathers or jobs is not racism?


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> Libs keep forgetting that any game they can invent conservatives can learn to play


They’re counting on us not to sink to their level, because they know we are better than that.

That needs to change, though.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 17, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> You use a hypothetical to justify government scripting results for blacks
> 
> which is not governments job



You know, what the fuck does that even mean? "Scripting"?   

The government spent 400 years "Scripting" results for black people.  Slavery, Jim Crow, Debt Peonage, Literacy Tests, Poll Taxes, etc.   



Laslow said:


> Joe, can we agree that racism is a problem and that dropping out of high school and having kids without fathers or jobs is not racism?



Okay, let's look at that.  

Nope.  

First, high school isn't all it's cracked up to be.  If it were, we wouldn't have such an emphasis on college.  What we need are job training programs as an alternative to high school. 

For instance, my bachelor's degree is in history.   I could talk about the Crusades for hours, but frankly, that has little or no practical use in any other place except maybe a classroom.  Yet it's given my a HUGE advantage over other people in my field who didn't complete or even attend college.  

As far as "children without fathers", you are repeating a racist myth.  Unmarried does not mean without fathers, and a lot of black kids have a better relationship with their "baby-daddies" than a lot of white kids have with their divorced dad who has moved on with the Trophy Wife.  Nobody is living with the "ideal".


----------



## monkrules (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> I am saying that black people in this country continue to experience racism



Racism is a fact of life. It has probably existed from our earliest beginnings. And most, if not all, groups have experienced it.

The BIG difference is that every other ethnic group in this country has managed to rise above it. They've educated themselves, worked to improve themselves and their lives. They chose to become fully American. And most have succeeded.

Blacks have EVERY opportunity to succeed. All they have to do is, DO THE FUCKING WORK. As others have.

Whining, bitching, blaming others for one's failures and bad choices is what losers do.

Anyone who would rather riot, engage in thievery, and blame others for their lack of success deserves to be a loser. They earned that, on their own.

The choice is simple, work and learn, or remain a worthless leech.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

monkrules said:


> Racism is a fact of life. It has probably existed from our earliest beginnings. And most, if not all, groups have experienced it.
> 
> The BIG difference is that every other ethnic group in this country has managed to rise above it. They've educated themselves, worked to improve themselves and their lives. They chose to become fully American. And most have succeeded.
> 
> ...


Only one group in this country was enslaved and discriminated against thru force of law for hundreds of years.


White people have had generations to build family wealth


Black discrimination was LEGAL in my lifetime 


That is how short a time period they have had to catch up


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 17, 2022)

monkrules said:


> Racism is a fact of life. It has probably existed from our earliest beginnings. And most, if not all, groups have experienced it.
> 
> The BIG difference is that every other ethnic group in this country has managed to rise above it. They've educated themselves, worked to improve themselves and their lives. They chose to become fully American. And most have succeeded.
> 
> Blacks have EVERY opportunity to succeed. All they have to do is, DO THE FUCKING WORK. As others have.



Well, first, every other group hasn't risen above it.  There is still massive poverty amongst Native Americans, for instance.   
Blacks haven't have "every opportunity" to succeed.  Quite the contrary, they have to often work twice as hard to get what we white people take for granted. 
And then they have to deal with people like Lisa558 in admissions and hiring offices, spewing about how they cheated to get there. 



monkrules said:


> Anyone who would rather riot, engage in thievery, and blame others for their lack of success deserves to be a loser. They earned that, on their own.
> 
> The choice is simple, work and learn, or remain a worthless leech.



As pointed out, this country spends FAR more money on middle class entitlements to keep white people from being poor than it spends on black people just staying poor. 

2.5 Trillion for Social Security, Medicare, Unemployment Insurance, Veteran's Benefits, FHA and VA home loans, etc.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 17, 2022)

monkrules said:


> Racism is a fact of life. It has probably existed from our earliest beginnings. And most, if not all, groups have experienced it.
> 
> The BIG difference is that every other ethnic group in this country has managed to rise above it. They've educated themselves, worked to improve themselves and their lives. They chose to become fully American. And most have succeeded.
> 
> ...


What’s more, blacks have BEYOND every opportunity. Jews didn‘t get benefit of getting into prestigious colleges and grad programs with grades and scores far below other people, and neither did Asians. In fact, both these groups have experienced the OPPOSITE: Jew quotas in the 40s and 50s at Ivy League schools, and Asians being turned away from Harvard despite top academic qualifications currently.

Despite these obstacles, both groups are at or near the top in terms of  educational attainment, income, and net worth.


----------



## monkrules (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> I'll give you one.
> 
> My advanced degrees trump your little BA degree anyday.
> 
> ...


Advanced degrees...Lol

In what? Whining and moaning?

Or, in making excuses, as you have done throughout this thread.

If you believe half of the whiny shit you've written, then you are a loser - by choice Despite any fucking degrees you _might_ have.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

monkrules said:


> Advanced degrees...Lol
> 
> In what? Whining and moaning?
> 
> ...


HAHAHAHA


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 17, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> What’s more, blacks have BEYOND every opportunity. Jews didn‘t get benefit of getting into prestigious colleges and grad programs with grades and scores far below other people, and neither did Asians. In fact, both these groups have experienced the OPPOSITE: Jew quotas in the 40s and 50s at Ivy League schools, and Asians being turned away from Harvard despite top academic qualifications currently.



Jews had quotas...  Blacks were excluded completely.  

So let's play a game, Lisa... I will list all the injustices black folks have had to put up with in the US, and see if you can come up with a corresponding number of injustices that Jews had to put up with IN THE UNITED STATES. (Hint- no whining about Hitler!)  

Slavery
Lynching
Jim Crow Laws
Miscegenation laws
Debt Peonage
Separate but Equal
Poll Taxes
Literacy tests

Okay, your turn... 

Um, they couldn't get into the country clubs in the 1940's.... Oh, the horror of it all.

Now it used to be that Jews and Blacks were locked arm-in-arm in fighting for equality in this country ... then this funny thing happened.  You were judged "White Enough" and just kept going.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> But racism also plays a part in the ability of young black people to get ahead



How?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 17, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> How?


Because black people are denied jobs and promotions and are more likely to be arrested and denied housing on the basis of race

Happens every day


----------



## monkrules (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Because black people are denied jobs and promotions and are more likely to be arrested and denied housing on the basis of race
> 
> Happens every day


BULLSHIT !!!

ALL you ever do is create more fucking excuses. You should be embarrassed by that. It's the most recognizable sign that someone is a fucking loser.

Hell, Dementia Joe just put a black woman on our Supreme Court. And he put her there BECAUSE she's black.

The worthless traitor didn't even consider anyone from the remaining 87 percent of the population. Now, THAT'S fucking racism! Especially since we already had a fucking black USSC Justice. Now, blacks make up over 22 percent of the justices, even though they make up about 13 percent of the population.

Old Joe's justice will probably forever be known as Dementia Joe's Token. And rightly so. He chose her only as a tradeoff for black votes.

So stop mumbling about how blacks are passed over, along with all your other whines. People are sick of the never-ending whining and excuses.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 17, 2022)

monkrules said:


> BULLSHIT !!!
> 
> ALL you ever do is create more fucking excuses. You should be embarrassed by that. It's the most recognizable sign that someone is a fucking loser.
> 
> ...



The Communists are realizing they are slipping with minority voters.  They still have the majority, but they need a super majority to stay in power.  So they are going back to the old play book:  buy their votes with pandering. 

This woman is a renown child molester sympathizer.  She is flawed.  Unlike Kavanaugh, it's not unproven accusations.  It's records that they easily looked up.  But they are going to overlook all her flaws simply to nominate a woman of color to the highest court of the land.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 17, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Because black people are denied jobs and promotions and are more likely to be arrested and denied housing on the basis of race
> 
> Happens every day



Except all that is against the laws and has been for many years.  Yes they are more likely to be arrested since they cause most of the violent crime in this country per capita.


----------



## monkrules (Apr 17, 2022)

I made a correction to my earlier post, #482. 

Dementia Joe overlooked *87 percent* of our population while choosing his new Token Supreme Court Justice.


----------



## Westender (Apr 18, 2022)

Dekster said:


> Your granny should have worked harder and scrimped and saved more.


My grandparents should have, my parents also. They had  very good middle class lives but passed away with nothing to leave next generation. I learned from them and have worked my full time job and managed 3 rentals I've accumulated in my 62 years. I did a lot of the work myself building those homes. I will be leaving my 2 daughters and 2 granddaughters close to $1 million each. I could retire now, sell everything and live comfortably but I want my kids to have it better than I did. Work hard, save, invest.


----------



## Dekster (Apr 18, 2022)

Westender said:


> My grandparents should have, my parents also. They had  very good middle class lives but passed away with nothing to leave next generation. I learned from them and have worked my full time job and managed 3 rentals I've accumulated in my 62 years. I did a lot of the work myself building those homes. I will be leaving my 2 daughters and 2 granddaughters close to $1 million each. I could retire now, sell everything and live comfortably but I want my kids to have it better than I did. Work hard, save, invest.



And I would think at 62, at some point you were aware of and perhaps attended a segregated school.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 18, 2022)

monkrules said:


> BULLSHIT !!!
> 
> ALL you ever do is create more fucking excuses. You should be embarrassed by that. It's the most recognizable sign that someone is a fucking loser.
> 
> Hell, Dementia Joe just put a black woman on our Supreme Court. And he put her there BECAUSE she's black.



We've had 116 justices on the Supreme court.  112 of them have been white.  108 of them have been white males.  The real question is, why has it taken THIS LONG to put a black woman on SCOTUS? 



monkrules said:


> The worthless traitor didn't even consider anyone from the remaining 87 percent of the population. Now, THAT'S fucking racism! Especially since we already had a fucking black USSC Justice. Now, blacks make up over 22 percent of the justices, even though they make up about 13 percent of the population.



Well, simple solution to that.  Have Uncle Thomas retire...  then we'll be closer to a balance.   Of course, given that he's the only justice who thought it was perfectly okay for a court to exclude black jurors from the SIXTH trial of a man because blacks on the previous five juries voted to acquit, that was something even his fellow conservative justices thought was a bit much.  



monkrules said:


> Old Joe's justice will probably forever be known as Dementia Joe's Token. And rightly so. He chose her only as a tradeoff for black votes.
> 
> So stop mumbling about how blacks are passed over, along with all your other whines. People are sick of the never-ending whining and excuses.



Stop passing them over, and they'll stop whining.  Stop letting the police get away with murdering them.


----------



## DudleySmith (Apr 18, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The Communists are realizing they are slipping with minority voters.  They still have the majority, but they need a super majority to stay in power.  So they are going back to the old play book:  buy their votes with pandering.
> 
> This woman is a renown child molester sympathizer.  She is flawed.  Unlike Kavanaugh, it's not unproven accusations.  It's records that they easily looked up.  But they are going to overlook all her flaws simply to nominate a woman of color to the highest court of the land.



Actually they;re just giving the American public their typical arrogant 'Fuck You Proles'; there are much better black choices to offer for these posts, but they much prefer to push through the loons and mentally ill ones just to stick their asses in the public's face for fun and to prove they can do it, and there will always be some Republicans who will help them.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 18, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Except all that is against the laws and has been for many years.  Yes they are more likely to be arrested since they cause most of the violent crime in this country per capita.


Yes its against the law


And yes it still happens every day


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 18, 2022)

monkrules said:


> BULLSHIT !!!
> 
> ALL you ever do is create more fucking excuses. You should be embarrassed by that. It's the most recognizable sign that someone is a fucking loser.
> 
> ...


Not bullshit


Serious shit


----------



## DBA (Apr 18, 2022)

Unkotare said:


> So you might find it a bit offensive if some presumptuous yahoo on the internet deigned to tell you just what your problems really are and how you should "fix" your life, as if talking down to a small child?



How do you think some may feel when some yahoo tells them that they have the privilege of being white and have a ticket to success.  Kind of like that?


----------



## DBA (Apr 18, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> You never heard of Hillsdale? It’s one of the most conservatives colleges in the country.
> 
> Are you one of those snobby liberals who think only liberals are intelligent? Among my friends who voted for Trump are a scientist, a biologist, a dentist, an MBA very a top program, a Ph.D., and a lawyer.



My wife is a physician. Her partners, also physicians, are Trump supporters.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 18, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Yes its against the law
> 
> 
> And yes it still happens every day



Since you know people breaking our laws, why don't you contact our authorities?  Dumb ass.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 18, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Since you know people breaking our laws, why don't you contact our authorities?  Dumb ass.


That's all you got? 


HAHAHAHAHA 


HAHAHAHAHA


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 18, 2022)

DBA said:


> My wife is a physician. Her partners, also physicians, are Trump supporters.


Yup.  There are very well-educated, highly intelligent people who voted for Trump. I actually shortened my list, but among my friends who voted for Trump are actually THREE Ph.D’s - with two of them in the science field.


----------



## DBA (Apr 18, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> And then they have to deal with people like Lisa558 in admissions and hiring offices, spewing about how they cheated to get there.



She has you on ignore, so I will respond for her. She has stated many times that a person should be judged based on their qualifications, not their race or gender. In your wee little mind, the fact that she would not admit an African American over a more qualified white candidate is racist. Think about that for a minute.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 18, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The Communists are realizing they are slipping with minority voters.  They still have the majority, but they need a super majority to stay in power.  So they are going back to the old play book:  buy their votes with pandering.
> 
> This woman is a renown child molester sympathizer.  She is flawed.  Unlike Kavanaugh, it's not unproven accusations.  It's records that they easily looked up.  But they are going to overlook all her flaws simply to nominate a woman of color to the highest court of the land.


Nome of that matters to Dems. They will overlook the most reprehensible of behavior - like sympathizing with pedophiles - if the person is black.



Dekster said:


> And I would think at 62, at some point you were aware of and perhaps attended a segregated school.


Why in the world would you assume THAT?

I’m in my 60s and never attended a segregated school. My mother, in her 90s, never attended a segregated school. My dad, who would have been late 90s were he still living, never attended a segregated school.

Stop trying to make it as though all older blacks alive today grew up under Jim Crow. In fact, blacks who are 50 or less arrived at their college years with AA policies FAVORING them over whites.

All this pretend “woe is me…..racism” is about winning election, not true concern for bigotry. If the concern were real, we wouldn’t have liberals tolerating, excusing, even justifying the bigotry we see against Jews. The double standard is blatant, and gives away that leftists don’t true think that racism, even in the instances it exists, is an issue.


----------



## AMart (Apr 18, 2022)

It's cultural. Best video you can watch on the topic. Southern blacks who flooded the Northern cities were in essence culturally aligned with white redneck crackers who hailed from N. England, Ulster Ireland, and Scottish highlands. 

In the late 1800's and early 1900's there was already a multi generational successful black community in the North that was culturally vastly different. In the hey day of Harlem most of the business owners there were from the W. Indies (still a recent slave background) and had a mainline British culture. In 2005 a study found that 90% of black Harvard grads had W. Indie Caribbean ancestry. 

2 hours long


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 18, 2022)

DBA said:


> She has you on ignore, so I will respond for her. She has stated many times that a person should be judged based on their qualifications, not their race or gender. In your wee little mind, the fact that she would not admit an African American over a more qualified white candidate is racist. Think about that for a minute.


Thanks. I can gauge what the antisemite said based on your reply to him.

And yes, that’s how upside down the progs have things: if someone doesn’t support racist policies, such as AA, and believes that people should be judged based on merit and regardless of race, the progs call her a racist. Oh…..the irony.

We just had another example of this a few months ago, when Maculiffe (D] was about to lose to Youngkin (R). In a desperate attempt to pander further to blacks, he proposed that black teachers - of equal experience and educational levels - be paid more than white teachers, based on nothing more than race. He angrily declared that anyone opposed to this obviously racist policy was a racist.

P.S. He lost.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 18, 2022)

AMart said:


> It's cultural. Best video you can watch on the topic. Southern blacks who flooded the Northern cities were in essence culturally aligned with white redneck crackers who hailed from N. England, Ulster Ireland, and Scottish highlands.
> 
> In the late 1800's and early 1900's there was already a multi generational successful black community in the North that was culturally vastly different. In the hey day of Harlem most of the business owners there were from the W. Indies (still a recent slave background) and had a mainline British culture. In 2005 a study found that 90% of black Harvard grads had W. Indie Caribbean ancestry.
> 
> 2 hours long


I didn’t watch that video, but that black dude could fill out one of my bras.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 18, 2022)

Dekster said:


> And I would think at 62, at some point you were aware of and perhaps attended a segregated school.



Lol.  62 isn't that old.  I'm that age and I don't recall segregated schools, at least not legally.  People of a certain area lived in those school districts and perhaps were black or white, but nothing intentional.


----------



## DBA (Apr 18, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Thanks. I can gauge what the antisemite said based on your reply to him.
> 
> And yes, that’s how upside down the progs have things: if someone doesn’t support racist policies, such as AA, and believes that people should be judged based on merit and regardless of race, the progs call her a racist. Oh…..the irony.
> 
> We just had another example of this a few months ago, when Maculiffe (D] was about to lose to Youngkin (R). In a desperate attempt to pander further to blacks, he proposed that black teachers - of equal experience and educational levels - be paid more than whote teachers, based on nothing more than race. He angrily declares that anyone opposed to this obviously racist policy was a racist.



The thing is, liberals are not altogether stupid people, but 99.9% of them are pretentious doctrinaires, unwilling to listen to reason when it comes to their indoctri… um, I mean, politics. They will deny facts, science, anything if it is in opposition to their teachings.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 18, 2022)

DBA said:


> She has you on ignore, so I will respond for her. She has stated many times that a person should be judged based on their qualifications, not their race or gender. In your wee little mind, the fact that she would not admit an African American over a more qualified white candidate is racist. Think about that for a minute.


I guess when Reagan did it that it was wrong too.....right?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 18, 2022)

DBA said:


> The thing is, liberals are not altogether stupid people, but 99.9% of them are pretentious doctrinaires, unwilling to listen to reason when it comes to their indoctri… um, I mean, politics. They will deny facts, science, anything if it is in opposition to their teachings.


It's nice to be able to lump 99.9% of the people who disagree with you into a little box.  Lol


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 18, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yup.  There are very well-educated, highly intelligent people who voted for Trump. I actually shortened my list, but among my friends who voted for Trump are actually THREE Ph.D’s - with two of them in the science field.



The commies take these polls in places like NYC where they get the results they want.  They forget most all lower income cities vote almost strictly Democrat.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 18, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The commies take these polls in places like NYC where they get the results they want.  They forget most all lower income cities vote almost strictly Democrat.


Commies!!!!!!


HAHAHAHAHA


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 18, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The commies take these polls in places like NYC where they get the results they want.  They forget most all lower income cities vote almost strictly Democrat.


Yup. Take a drive - if you dare! - around NE Washington, DC. If you’re really brave, zero in on the 8th District - the poorest of the poor. You won’t find even 1% of them voting Republican.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 18, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yup. Take a drive - if you dare! - around NE Washington, DC. If you’re really brave, zero in on the 8th District - the poorest of the poor. You won’t find even 1% of them voting Republican.


Because Republicans wont help them


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 18, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yup. Take a drive - if you dare! - around NE Washington, DC. If you’re really brave, zero in on the 8th District - the poorest of the poor. You won’t find even 1% of them voting Republican.


P.S. if you do that, make sure the windows are rolled up and the doors locked. The last time I was there - I got lost looking for a golf course - black teens saw a white lady in a car and so ran up and started banging on all sides - from the left, from the right, and at the trunk.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 18, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> P.S. if you do that, make sure the windows are rolled up and the doors locked. The last time I was there - I got lost looking for a golf course - black teens saw a white lady in a car and so ran up and started banging on all sides - from the left, from the right, and at the trunk.



That's why you need to move to a more gun friendly state.  In spite of the crime here, nobody approaches your car because you may be armed and legally allowed to use deadly force.  Here, trying to break into a car is no different than trying to break into somebody's home.  Our Castle Doctrine extends to your automobile as well.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 18, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> That's why you need to move to a more gun friendly state.  In spite of the crime here, nobody approaches your car because you may be armed and legally allowed to use deadly force.  Here, trying to break into a car is no different than trying to break into somebody's home.  Our Castle Doctrine extends to your automobile as well.


States with lax gun laws have the highest per capita gun deaths


----------



## Dekster (Apr 18, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Lol.  62 isn't that old.  I'm that age and I don't recall segregated schools, at least not legally.  People of a certain area lived in those school districts and perhaps were black or white, but nothing intentional.



Kamala Harris recalls them and she is younger than you by 5 years


----------



## Dekster (Apr 18, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Nome of that matters to Dems. They will overlook the most reprehensible of behavior - like sympathizing with pedophiles - if the person is black.
> 
> 
> Why in the world would you assume THAT?
> ...


 sure uh hug totally believe that you, your mother and your grandmother never attended a segregated school


----------



## DBA (Apr 18, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> It's nice to be able to lump 99.9% of the people who disagree with you into a little box.  Lol



You mean like assuming all Trump supporters are uneducated illiterates?


----------



## DBA (Apr 18, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Because Republicans wont help them



Democrats don't help them. They just throw them a bone every once in  while to keep them from running away from the Democratic Party. Think about it. If these folks were NOT dependent, many of them would turn toward the Republican Party, so it behooves the Democratic Party to keep them in their place(dependent) and that is EXACTLY what their policies do.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 18, 2022)

Dekster said:


> sure uh hug totally believe that you, your mother and your grandmother never attended a segregated school


Wwoo then that just speaks to your ignorance. Those of us who grew up in Maryland, New Jersey, and New York NEVER attended a segregated school…..even 80 years ago.

The neighborhoods were integrated as well. One of my closest friends in elementary school was a black girl. You people are either ignorant, or liars.

Stop trying to fool people.


----------



## AMart (Apr 18, 2022)

Dekster said:


> Kamala Harris recalls them and she is younger than you by 5 years


Bullshit. There were not public schools where she grew up refusing to enroll black kids. State sponsored segregated enrollment was illegal.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 18, 2022)

DBA said:


> Democrats don't help them. They just throw them a bone every once in  while to keep them from running away from the Democratic Party. Think about it. If these folks were NOT dependent, many of them would turn toward the Republican Party, so it behooves the Democratic Party to keep them in their place(dependent) and that is EXACTLY what their policies do.


It's good to have opinions 


I'm not dependent and I am a Democrat


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 18, 2022)

Dekster said:


> Kamala Harris recalls them and she is younger than you by 5 years



Whorris slept her way to where she is today.  I wouldn't take anything she says as truth.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 18, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> States with lax gun laws have the highest per capita gun deaths



Right.  And those commie cities with tough gun laws are doing so well in violent crime.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 18, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Right.  And those commie cities with tough gun laws are doing so well in violent crime.


My statement remains true


It's a fact


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 18, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Sure, there are SOME racists who wouldn’t hire someone who is “too black” just as there are SOME antisemites who wouldn’t hire someone who is “too Jewish.”
> 
> But for the most part, the reason some blacks are in poverty is because they are making bad choices - 1) having babies they can’t afford before they’re married and 2) not completing high school.
> 
> ...


Your racism is well known.
Every comment you make is taken is that context.
Sure, it's wall the fault of Black people having kids and people like me pointing to faults in the system created by racists like you...
BUT

How do you explain Dwight Howard, Karl Malone, Scottie Pippen...
Wealthy but with lots of kids
Seems your model falls apart when the ONLY criteria is talent.

RACIST


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 18, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> What my link described is how the research was conducted and the flaws within.  Now if you disagree with what they found, then by all means, show they are wrong.  it's far from an opinion piece.  They examined what tricks were used to make it look racially bias as all these studies do.


No, your link does not.
You link cheery picks some data to "prove" the authors opinion.
That you cannot discern the difference is why you fail.


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 18, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> *It hasn't been demonstrated at all. * You point to some flawed and rigged study as evidence, but yet to give any real life instances.
> 
> Show me where blacks were denied better housing outside of the FACT they didn't meet the financial qualifications to own such a home.  Show me one black who was denied education in the city they live in and pay taxes to support those schools.  It never happens and do you know why?  BECAUSE IT'S ILLEGAL, that's why.
> 
> Schools are locally funded and it's up to the taxpayers how much funding they wish to provide to the education of these kids, not some evil white man.  i know this because over half of my property taxes go to fund our schools as it is with every homeowner.


As noted, your white colored glasses.

Donald trump, the man you think of as god, on multiple occasions was fined for his racist policies in housing.

Educate yourself with the search
"donald trump fined for racist housing"

OOOPSIE


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 18, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> Your racism is well known.
> Every comment you make is taken is that context.
> Sure, it's wall the fault of Black people having kids and people like me pointing to faults in the system created by racists like you...
> BUT
> ...


There’s nothing racist about objecting to favoritism and decisions based on race. In fact, it’s the opposite. The people who are going in FAVOR of giving advantages to people solely for their skin color are the racists.

RACIST


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 18, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> As noted, your white colored glasses.
> 
> Donald trump, the man you think of as god, on multiple occasions was fined for his racist policies in housing.
> 
> ...


There you go - “white colored glasses.” If I said “Black colored glasses,” you’d be calling me a racist.

You are intentionally lying to make it seems as if blacks and whites all grew up in segregated schools.

And besides,that was 50 years ago even for the ones that did. They’ve had time to take advantage of all the pro-black bias of the last 40 years. And most blacks have, which is why the majority are middle class.  For the ones ruining their lives getting pregnant as teens and dropping out of high school, that’s their own damn fault.

What‘s your excuse for the bottom of the barrel black male gangs in Chicago, NY, DC, Detroit? THEY didn’t go to segregated schools.  Neither did their parents.


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 18, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> In a modern culture of “what have you done lately” europeans, including Americans, have been dominating the world for the last 500 of those 200k years
> 
> and thats the reality that drives libs nuts


WW-1
WW-2
Slavery
eugenics
Genocide

White people have much to be proud of over the last 500 years.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 18, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> WW-1
> WW-2
> Slavery
> eugenics
> ...


Has nothing to do with now. Time to abolish racist policies like AA, and start treating people as equals - judged on their individual merits and not skin color.

And your sweeping comments about white people are racist.

P.S. No reparations. It’s obvious that the anti-white sentiment that black activists and self-loathing whites are pushing have that as an end goal. You are not getting a penny! Take advantage of the wonderful opportunities this nation is giving you.…and EARN your money.

P.P.S. What genocide did white people commit, and when?


----------



## Dekster (Apr 18, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Whorris slept her way to where she is today.  I wouldn't take anything she says as truth.



Then perhaps you will take the Cleveland historical society's word that your city didn't fully desegregate schools until the late 1970's  The Desegregation of Cleveland Public Schools - A 40-Year Struggle for Public School Equity | Cleveland Historical


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 18, 2022)

Dekster said:


> Then perhaps you will take the Cleveland historical society's word that your city didn't fully desegregate schools until the late 1970's  The Desegregation of Cleveland Public Schools - A 40-Year Struggle for Public School Equity | Cleveland Historical


I didn’t know that Harris went to school in Mississippi. And besides, nobody’s saying there wasn’t segregation in Jim Crow states. But you - liar - are claiming that whites all went to segregated schools. None of my aunts, uncles, parents, cousins, or siblings - in school from the 1930s through the 1970s - ever went to segregated schools. That would include Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, and Maryland.


----------



## Mac-7 (Apr 18, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> WW-1
> WW-2
> Slavery
> eugenics
> ...


Libs always seem to be glass half empty types

almost every modern device that you own was invented and first manufactured by european culture

do you regret or disapprove of the electric light or the telephone

how about x-ray machines that find and help fight cancer?


----------



## AMart (Apr 18, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> WW-1
> WW-2
> Slavery
> eugenics
> ...


All races and ethnic groups have engaged in wars, slavery, genocide, etc. all over Earth.


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 18, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> *Has nothing to do with now.* Time to abolish racist policies like AA, and start treating people as equals - judged on their individual merits and not skin color.
> 
> And your sweeping comments about white people are racist.
> 
> ...


BWAHAHA
Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
See UKR-RUS today.
BWAHAHAHA
Fool!

Genocide?
Jews in Europe
Whites in the Americas
Repeat the history thing, fool.

OH and let us not forget the reason you are so historically ignorant...RACIST


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 18, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> BWAHAHA
> Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
> See UKR-RUS today.
> BWAHAHAHA
> ...


You’re the racist. I’m the one advocating for race-blind policies, while you are spewing venom about whites.

It‘s time for leftists to judge people on merit, rather than skin color (and stop calling those of us who’d like to see that “racist”…..it’s ridiculous.)


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 18, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> Libs always seem to be glass half empty types
> 
> almost every modern device that you own was invented and first manufactured by european culture
> 
> ...


The people who bought you slavery in the US also bought you pecan pie.
Is pecan pie an excuse for slavery?
Although, I'm pretty sure, pecan pie was created by a Black slave not the white master claiming credit.

STILL

Are you saying the light bulb made the Holocaust OK?

Really?
REALLY?


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 18, 2022)

AMart said:


> All races and ethnic groups have engaged in wars, slavery, genocide, etc. all over Earth.


So?
Not all of them are claiming 100% credit for all progress on the planet while conveniently blaming the Jews for the evil.

BUT

Since you bring it up...
How many of the peoples you're accusing have committed genocide against White people just because they're white?

We'll not wait for your answer because you will not be able to provide one


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 18, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yup. There are very well-educated, highly intelligent people who voted for Trump. I actually shortened my list, but among my friends who voted for Trump are actually THREE Ph.D’s - with two of them in the science field.



so there are stupid people with advanced degrees... still makes them stupid and racist.  

Except the ones who are greed and stupid.  You know, the ones who think that Republicans are good for the economy if you ignore the last five recessions happened while they were in charge.  



DBA said:


> She has you on ignore, so I will respond for her. She has stated many times that a person should be judged based on their qualifications, not their race or gender. In your wee little mind, the fact that she would not admit an African American over a more qualified white candidate is racist. Think about that for a minute.



I know she has me on ignore. I answer her lies for the sake of anyone who might actually believe them. 

So  racist bitch thinks blacks are 'unqualified".   Gee, why is this a surprise.  Of, course, you put white people in charge of the selection process, they will ALWAYS find that white people are qualified.  Maybe toss an Asian or two in there because Asians are almost in that' White enough" category.  

Do I really need to retell the story of the White Boss who couldn't make time to meet with two women of color leaving his company, but man, he made time for the pretty white intern.   And that guy wasn't nearly as racist as Karen558.  Or Welfare Ray.  Or you.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 18, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> We just had another example of this a few months ago, when Maculiffe (D] was about to lose to Youngkin (R). In a desperate attempt to pander further to blacks, he proposed that black teachers - of equal experience and educational levels - be paid more than white teachers, based on nothing more than race. He angrily declared that anyone opposed to this obviously racist policy was a racist.



Gee, it sounds like he was trying to attract more white teachers... you know, that black student can RELATE to.  But that wouldn't enter into your mind, of course.. you don't have one.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 18, 2022)

DBA said:


> The thing is, liberals are not altogether stupid people, but 99.9% of them are pretentious doctrinaires, unwilling to listen to reason when it comes to their indoctri… um, I mean, politics. They will deny *facts, science, *anything if it is in opposition to their teachings.



Says the guy who believes in the book with the talking snakes.  

Here's the reality.  Up until 2008, I was pretty conservative... then I realized three things. 

1) The ONLY real divide in this country is between the investor class and the working class.   
2) The REpublicans are not the friend of the working class. 
3) They only way they get working class people to vote against their own economic interests is by playing on their racial, religious and sexual fears.  

This AA shit she goes on about is a great example.  No matter how much AA there is, WHITE PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS HAVE PRIVILEGE!  But you tell a white person that his failure to succeed is because of AA, and he'll jump on that racist GOP bandwagon, especially if he live in your part of the country where the fly Confederate Flags and Family Trees don't fork.  

The Same Stupid, inbred morons who happily caught bullets so a few rich people could keep owning black people 150 years ago are no different than the dumb inbred who lives in a trailer park and watches rich people strip away their American dream.  

I just refused to play along after a certain point.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 18, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> There’s nothing racist about objecting to favoritism and decisions based on race. In fact, it’s the opposite. The people who are going in FAVOR of giving advantages to people solely for their skin color are the racists.



For those playing along at home, Lisa totally freaked out when she went to a mall and there were posters of black people.  They'd have to call in a clean up crew if she met an actual black person. 

Here's the thing.  There's already "Affirmative Action' for white people.  Most of the hiring decisions are made by white people.  This is why the biggest winners in Affirmative Actions have been - wait for it - White women.  

All AA does at the end of the day is make sure that you aren't rejecting qualified minority applicants.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 18, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> That was 50 years and two generations ago.
> 
> TODAY, any black person can rise from poverty by not getting pregnant as a teen and getting Some basic post-high school job training, courtesy of the American taxpayer,


What do you consider poverty?


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 18, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> What do you consider poverty?


Poverty is being unable to afford to rent a small room in someone’s house and buy basic groceries.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 18, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Excellent point. Any black person under 60 today has had advantages ver whites, particularly with affirmative action. He or she has been admitted to programs, and given opportunities, solely because of skin color that whites with better qualifications were rejected from.


White women, of which I assume you are one, have traditionally been the largest group to benefit from affirmative action because gender is also a protected class.

There is *nothing *in executive order 11246 which created affirmative action that gives preference to any particular race, certainly not members of the Black race, the topic of your thread.

And speaking of the topic of your thread, do you even know how many black people live in poverty compared to others and why are you focused on that minority instead of the majority of black people who *don't* live in poverty?
​


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 18, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Poverty is being unable to afford to rent a small room in someone’s house and buy basic groceries.


That's not the definition of poverty or rather living in poverty.

With or without a job?


----------



## Mac-7 (Apr 18, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> The people who bought you slavery in the US also bought you pecan pie.
> Is pecan pie an excuse for slavery?
> Although, I'm pretty sure, pecan pie was created by a Black slave not the white master claiming credit.
> 
> ...


You have very strange thinking

nothing is an excuse for bad behavior 

but there was nothing bad white did back in the day that every other race and culture was not doing also


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 18, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> White women, of which I assume you are one, have traditionally been the largest group to benefit from affirmative action because gender is also a protected class.
> 
> There is *nothing *in executive order 11246 which created affirmative action that gives preference to any particular race, certainly not members of the Black race, the topic of your thread.
> 
> ...





NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> White women, of which I assume you are one, have traditionally been the largest group to benefit from affirmative action because gender is also a protected class.
> 
> There is *nothing *in executive order 11246 which created affirmative action that gives preference to any particular race, certainly not members of the Black race, the topic of your thread.
> 
> ...





NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> White women, of which I assume you are one, have traditionally been the largest group to benefit from affirmative action because gender is also a protected class.
> 
> There is *nothing *in executive order 11246 which created affirmative action that gives preference to any particular race, certainly not members of the Black race, the topic of your thread.
> 
> ...


Wow. Another lib with a big chip on her shoulder.

As I said in my OP, the reasons for poverty among blacks is the same as it is for whites. And the reason I’m focusing on blacks is because racism is being blamed for THEIR poverty, and obviously not for whites.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 18, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> That's not the definition of poverty.
> 
> With or without a job?


What do you mean, with or without a job? WITH a job of course. People who refuse to work have no standing to complain that they live in poverty.

The point is…again…..that people who graduate from high school and do not have out-of-wedlock babies when they’re still only teens rarely live in poverty. So other than in those rare instances, all it takes to stay out of poverty is to finish school and not have babies you can’t afford. Race irrelevant.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 18, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam

And what’s YOUR definition of poverty? If you can afford to rent a little room in the basement of someone’s house and pay for the bus ride to your job, then you’re not in poverty. That’s how my dad lived when he first go out of college. You think a high school dropout should be entitled to afford that?

Just stay in school! We’re not talking rocket science here.


----------



## monkrules (Apr 18, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Wow. Another lib with a big chip on her shoulder.
> 
> As I said in my OP, the reasons for poverty among blacks is the same as it is for whites. And the reason I’m focusing on blacks is because racism is being blamed for THEIR poverty, and obviously not for whites.


Lisa you have a ton of energy.

But it's a losing battle trying to reason with these losers. All they want to do is dredge up the past so they can accuse whites of racism and oppression. The conclusion is always the same: their hand outstretched for more free shit, especially , money.

These worthless imbeciles don't want equality. That would mean they have to work to support their own lazy asses. All they want is HANDOUTS. Fuck them.

The best thing you can do is put them on the Sambo List. They want to live in the past, and that's where they deserve to stay. They're not equipped to live in any advanced society. They were born to whine. Fucking worthless. 85 is real. Lol...


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 18, 2022)

Lisa558
*As I said in my OP, the reasons for poverty among blacks is the same as it is for whites. And the reason I’m focusing on blacks is because racism is being blamed for THEIR poverty, and obviously not for whites.*

White supremacy is just as much psychologically as it is material. You focus on the material things

But it's really psychologically is the glue that keeps this system going.

Whites like you can run around and say blks undeserving of benefits like health care, job opportunities, and blacks are getting all these free stuff and AA and undeservedly getting into uni. You can get and ego boost and happy when you see cops kill and mistreat black people. You get and ego boost and are happy when you see blacks in jail.

So even if a white person is poor. It's that old Lyndon Johnson quote





It’s mind-boggling that you could think whites are victims but I guess you have to see the world like that to keep this system going.

But sure there are lots of poor white people and very rich black people

But that doesn’t diminish truth of white privilege. The same way Stevie Wonder being a millionaire doesn't change the fact that on balance it's an advantage to have your sight.

It's really only the agreement of showing contempt towards blacks. That's pretty much the only thing whites and non blacks agree on.


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 18, 2022)

monkrules said:


> Lisa you have a ton of energy.
> 
> But it's a losing battle trying to reason with these losers. All they want to do is dredge up the past so they can accuse whites of racism and oppression. The conclusion is always the same: their hand outstretched for more free shit, especially , money.
> 
> ...


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> For those playing along at home, Lisa totally freaked out when she went to a mall and there were posters of black people.  They'd have to call in a clean up crew if she met an actual black person.
> 
> Here's the thing.  There's already "Affirmative Action' for white people.  Most of the hiring decisions are made by white people.  This is why the biggest winners in Affirmative Actions have been - wait for it - White women.
> 
> All AA does at the end of the day is make sure that you aren't rejecting qualified minority applicants.


Actually all AA does is provide a cause of action (a right to bring legal action via a lawsuit) IF the plaintiff can prove violations of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 however the deck is still stacked against minorities.  In fact the people who have had the most success suing under the Civil Rights Act of 1964/affirmative action have been white.

I'm not disagreeing with you I'm merely pointing out that just because there is a law prohibiting discrimination, there are still a lot of people who don't agree with it and pay it no mind, including one poster here on this site who mentioned all of the times he refused to consider any black applicants for work in his department at an aerospace company.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Wow. Another lib with a big chip on her shoulder.
> 
> As I said in my OP, the reasons for poverty among blacks is the same as it is for whites. And the reason I’m focusing on blacks is because racism is being blamed for THEIR poverty, and obviously not for whites.


Why do you think I have a chip on my shoulder?  Simply because I corrected your misconceptions?

Again, why are you focusing on the minority of people who are black and living in poverty instead of the many more white people who are living in poverty, or the black people who are not living in poverty?

And while there is some merit to the things you suggest people should do, they alone are not enough.

Staying in school doesn't mean anything is your grades are crap, you don't want to be there and you don't value what a good education can do for you.  Or working hard and delaying gratification in the here and now for repeating rewards later.

In order to understand what a good education can do for you there have to be people in your life, preferably your parents but also your extended family who serve as examples of where a good education, that leads to a good job, can take you.  And that's just the beginning.

Not everyone has the good fortune to be a star athlete or musician or other celebrity or are born into a wealthy family so having a backup plan is good, in my opinion.  And that plan should include being able to support yourself come hell or high water until you get to where you're trying to go.  I'm saying you have to do it all alone, but you need to be self-sufficient as much as you can.

White people have not had all of the same challenges in life that black people have, so if many of them are not doing better, why not?


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Wow. Another lib with a big chip on her shoulder.
> 
> As I said in my OP, the reasons for poverty among blacks is the same as it is for whites. And the reason I’m focusing on blacks is because racism is being blamed for THEIR poverty, and obviously not for whites.


Why do you think I have a chip on my shoulder?  Simply because I corrected your misconceptions?

And you quoted me 3 times and yet you were unable to point out where in the text of the affirmative action EO is says to give preference to unqualified black people over more qualified white people.  That's a flat out lie and the reason I suspect you went on the offensive

And again, why are you focusing on the minority of people who are black and living in poverty instead of the many more white people who are living in poverty, or the black people who are not living in poverty?

And while there is some merit to the things you suggest people should do, they alone are not enough.

Staying in school doesn't mean anything is your grades are crap, you don't want to be there and you don't value what a good education can do for you.  Or working hard and delaying gratification in the here and now for repeating rewards later.

In order to understand what a good education can do for you there have to be people in your life, preferably your parents but also your extended family who serve as examples of where a good education, that leads to a good job, can take you.  And that's just the beginning.

Not everyone has the good fortune to be a star athlete or musician or other celebrity or are born into a wealthy family so having a backup plan is good, in my opinion.  And that plan should include being able to support yourself come hell or high water until you get to where you're trying to go.  I'm saying you have to do it all alone, but you need to be self-sufficient as much as you can.

White people have not had all of the same challenges in life that black people have, so if many of them are not doing better, why not?


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 19, 2022)

Dekster said:


> And yet that would be two generations plus however many generations before of income production from property the blacks families couldn't have that we did.


Very few whites benefit from ancestral property.  Most white Americans are descended from immigrants who came here around the turn of the century.  Ellis Island was the gateway to the US for immigrants and it operated from 1890 to 1924. Between 1924 and 1950 it was used as a detention center and prison.  I'm a rare American in that I can actually trace two of my ancestors back before 1900.  One was the youngest son of The Spencer and came over on a indenture.  The other was an Irish peasant who was imported into the Confederacy, deserted from the Confederate Army, fought for the Union and served in the west as cavalry during the Indian wars and married a Commanche.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> What do you mean, with or without a job? WITH a job of course. People who refuse to work have no standing to complain that they live in poverty.
> 
> The point is…again…..that people who graduate from high school and do not have out-of-wedlock babies when they’re still only teens rarely live in poverty. So other than in those rare instances, all it takes to stay out of poverty is to finish school and not have babies you can’t afford. Race irrelevant.


Not everyone works, you realize that right?  Some people have a spouse or other family member to support them/their household.  Also our government pays for the upkeep of minor children if the father is unable or unwilling to support them.  I think they also pay to make sure the minor children have a decent home to live in.

Most college students attend classes instead of working and receive money usually to help pay for housing, tuition, books, and living expenses if they got good grades in high school and qualified for scholarships, grants, loans, etc.

You haven't put much thought into this have you?


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I credit my sister and BIL for refusing to enable her laziness and contribute to her sense of entitlement. But they only did it halfway. The “girl” - a young woman now 28 years old - is still living with them in their waterfront house, in her childhood bedroom, and getting her meals served by Mom. They really should insist she move out - she’s actually earning a decent salary for her age and experience - but my sister says she wouldn‘t be able to live as well.
> 
> I’m staying out of it, but who says a young adult should be able to live as well as how her parents were - after 25 years of working? These kids need to be told that they have to work UP to that.


I had a co-worker who was forced to transfer to Northern California.  She rented out her condo rather than sell it.  When she managed to transfer back to Southern California, her mom invited her to move home until the lease on her condo expired.    For the next five years every time she tried to move out her mom would beg her to stay.  The mom liked the company and wouldn't even allow my co-worker to pay rent, so she bought the groceries over mom's objection.  But that's different than a kid moving home to freesias off his or her parents.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> It’s doesn’t have to be anecdotes. Studies show a direct correlation between OOW births, and dropping and out school, and poverty - and this is within the control of the “victims” you defend. But because it doesn’t fall into your “racism can be blamed for everything,” you fight what is an obvious reality.
> 
> Stay in stay in school, don’t have babies you can’t afford when you’re in high school, and take advantage of free educational programs offered to the poor - and you will be out of poverty.


There are a few states left in the U.S. where you can work 40 hours a week at the state's minimum wage and still be "living in poverty" meaning that your annual income puts you below the poverty limit threshold.  Thankfully all of that is changing.
Minimum Wage by State 2022 Increases vs 2021 - Paycor


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 19, 2022)

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> Because Africa was stripped of almost all natural resources in the 1800’s and early 1900’a and was colonized to hell and back for rubber, minerals, diamonds, etc


You're kidding right?  Africa and Siberia are the two least tapped resource intensive areas of the world.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Could it be because she, like some many leftists, are resentful of the fact that Jews have risen from the worst persecution, and for millennia, and prove that bigotry and prejudice not only keep one in poverty, but doesn’t even stop them from rising from poor, uneducated immigrants to upper-middle class professionals in a single generation?


The Jewish people for the most part are not "people of African descent".  If you don't know what that means, it means the same thing that applies to the Irish, and Asian and other immigrants who are NOT BLACK.

The laws that applied to "us" did not apply to any  of them.  Does that still not clarify things for you?


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Nothing preventing them from assimilating.  Assimilate means to act like other people.  You don't need the other peoples permission to do that.


Tell me please that you aren't really not aware of all of the laws that were passed to prevent black people from having the same rights as white people, after slavery was abolished and replaced with Jim Crow and the black codes?


----------



## Meathead (Apr 19, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Tell me please that you aren't really not aware of all of the laws that were passed to prevent black people from having the same rights as white people, after slavery was abolished and replaced with Jim Crow and the black codes?


Tell me please that you aren't really not aware (double negative yours) of all of the laws that were passed to pander to and help blacks with free stuff and affirmative action while your great-grandfather  was probably still alive. Yet blacks are still failures.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> If anything, blacks have been favored for my entire adulthood - especially when it comes to opportunities for higher education. Blacks are admitted to prestigious universities and grad programs (like med school) that have white applicants with superior grades and scores laughed at.


What prestigious career were you denied because some person of color absconded with what should have been your life? In what field?


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> LESSER qualifications: much lower grades and test scores.
> 
> In your hate-filled racist world, racist policies punishing whites are not merely fine, but fought for. Blacks have been getting favored for 40 years, and most have moved into the middle class. As for the black underclass that hasn‘t taken advantage of the favoritism, time to stop blaming whitey….screech waaaacism!….. and take responsibilities for their own actions.


Not just lower grades but MUCH lower grades.  Please tell us, what have you been deprived of by these unqualified and poor black people?  Surely you examples you can share?


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

Meathead said:


> Tell me please that you aren't really not aware (double negative yours) of all of the laws that were passed to pander to and help blacks with free stuff and affirmative action while your great-grandfather  was probably still alive. Yet blacks are still failures.


Don't know about my great grandfather, but my mom's dad was a Tuskegee Airman so that exceeds anything any of the racists on this board have offered as evidence of your superiority as members of the white race.

He was and is, superior to you all, in many ways, first and foremost as a human being, in bravery, as a fighter pilot, bomber escort and bombardier.  And in all likelihood racism contributed to his death back here in the U.S. in 1945 because no one would grant them clearance to land and get out of the storm that ultimately killed him and other officers that all died in that crash as they attempted to fly into Moton field, in Tuskegee Alabama.  It was the only airfield where "Negro" pilots were allowed to land.

"Blacks are still failures" huh.  Me think the racists doth protest too much


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Sure, there are SOME racists who wouldn’t hire someone who is “too black” just as there are SOME antisemites who wouldn’t hire someone who is “too Jewish.”
> 
> But for the most part, the reason some blacks are in poverty is because they are making bad choices - 1) having babies they can’t afford before they’re married and 2) not completing high school.
> 
> ...


If the reasons for poverty are the same, according to you, then why are you singling out black people living in poverty?  You've got a lot of nerve lecturing anyone.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Bullshit.  I'm white, my family is all white, and our parents grew up in a house the size of a three car garage; all six of them.  They had no indoor plumbing or electricity.  Many nights they went to bed hungry.  So where is this generational wealth at?


In most instances you need at least some money to generate money.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yeah, I’m sending him to the same place that antisemite Joe is. That’s where I put all the Sambos!


You don't get upset when you're accused of being a racist do you?


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Yes, you to can be like Welfare Ray.
> 
> Collecting a disability check because you never bothered to learn another job skill.
> Living in a slum because all the upwardly mobile people left you behind.
> Putting cameras on your house's perimeter and listening to the police scanner because the scary negroes live next door.


I encountered Ray shortly after I became a member here back in 2018 and actually had a conversation with him that I thought went pretty well.  However there are two things about him that always struck me as not fitting his persona:
1.  I never could figure out if it was fear or aggression that caused him to choose his avatar because it definitely comes across as passive aggressive (the whole "never point your weapon at anyone or anything you're not willing to kill or destroy")
2.  It's interesting that a self-admitted white separatist lives among black people.  He explained how that came about but it seems to defy his identity that he hasn't separated from those he deems should have their own segregated space as should he.

Oh and I recently found out that he believes that the T.V. show Cops is a valid representation of black people in America.  As disturbing as I find this revelation, it explains more than it impresses (meaning #1 & #2).


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Just as antisemitism exists, and just as bigotry towards Asians exists.
> 
> That these two groups have succeeded - and well above the average - just shows that staying in school and delaying children until one is settled and financially able overcomes prejudice.
> 
> Leftists hate that type of talk, given that it credits (or blames) success (or lack thereof) on personal choices.


and neither one of them is "of African descent" aka "BLACK" or "NEGRO" or the more nasty words you all use and then deny that any of you are racist.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Whorris slept her way to where she is today.  I wouldn't take anything she says as truth.


don't call her a whore


----------



## Meathead (Apr 19, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Don't know about my great grandfather, but my mom's dad was a Tuskegee Airman so that exceeds anything any of the racists on this board have offered as evidence of your superiority as members of the white race.
> 
> He was and is, superior to you all, in many ways, first and foremost as a human being, in bravery, as a fighter pilot, bomber escort and bombardier.  And in all likelihood racism contributed to his death back here in the U.S. in 1945 because no one would grant them clearance to land and get out of the storm that ultimately killed him and other officers that all died in that crash as they attempted to fly into Moton field, in Tuskegee Alabama.  It was the only airfield where "Negro" pilots were allowed to land.
> 
> "Blacks are still failures" huh.  Me think the racists doth protest too much


I suspect this is BS, but if true, it is tragic how far you have fallen. Still the dregs of society as other people (of color) come into the country without money or a word of English and work, succeed and educate their children.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> There’s nothing racist about objecting to favoritism and decisions based on race. In fact, it’s the opposite. The people who are going in FAVOR of giving advantages to people solely for their skin color are the racists.
> 
> RACIST


White people in this country have been so accustomed to being given preference that when it begins to wane, you all think you're being discriminated against.  You're not, you were never entitled to the whole pie in the first place.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> You’re the racist. I’m the one advocating for race-blind policies, while you are spewing venom about whites.
> 
> It‘s time for leftists to judge people on merit, rather than skin color (and stop calling those of us who’d like to see that “racist”…..it’s ridiculous.)


Except you're not being honest because that's not what's happening.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I didn’t know that Harris went to school in Mississippi. And besides, nobody’s saying there wasn’t segregation in Jim Crow states. But you - liar - are claiming that whites all went to segregated schools. None of my aunts, uncles, parents, cousins, or siblings - in school from the 1930s through the 1970s - ever went to segregated schools. That would include Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, and Maryland.


How do you know?



> 1954​​Throughout the first half of the 20th century there were several efforts to combat school segregation, but few were successful. However, in a unanimous *1954* decision in the Brown v. Board of Education case, the United States Supreme Court ruled segregation in public schools unconstitutional.​


----------



## Meathead (Apr 19, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> I encountered Ray shortly after I became a member here back in 2018 and actually had a conversation with him that I thought went pretty well.  However there are two things about him that always struck me as not fitting his persona:
> 1.  I never could figure out if it was fear or aggression that caused him to choose his avatar because it definitely comes across as passive aggressive (the whole "never point your weapon at anyone or anything you're not willing to kill or destroy")
> 2.  It's interesting that a self-admitted white separatist lives among black people.  He explained how that came about but it seems to defy his identity that he hasn't separated from those he deems should have their own segregated space as should he.
> 
> Oh and I recently found out that he believes that the T.V. show Cops is a valid representation of black people in America.  As disturbing as I find this revelation, it explains more than it impresses (meaning #1 & #2).


_"In 2019, at least 7,484 Black Americans were murdered. That number shot up to at least 9,941 murders in 2020, meaning there was an increase of 2,457 Black Americans murdered over the previous year.

The number of Black murders was also far higher than White murders in 2020. The FBI data shows there 7,043 White people murdered that year, meaning 2,898 more Black people were killed compared to Whites.

Between 2010 and 2019, there was an average of 5,954 White murders, which is roughly 16% lower than the 10-year average of Black murders. During that same time period, an average of 6,927 Black Americans were murdered each year, meaning Black murders shot up by 43% in 2020 compared to the previous 10-year average.

There was a roughly 21% increase in White murders in 2020 compared to_
 2019."Massive increase in Black Americans murdered was result of defund police movement: experts


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

Meathead said:


> I suspect this is BS, but if true, it is tragic how far you have fallen. Still the dregs of society as other people (of color) come into the country without money or a word of English and work, succeed and educate their children.


You mean other people who are not "people of African descent"?  White racists are the dregs of society, even lower than what you consider black people yet still you haven't figured this out.

It doesn't surprise me that you're not able to make the connection but hey that's to be expected, including you not believing the things I've relayed about by grandfather.  In fact it wasn't until I was enrolled in college and attending a history of aviation class that I first heard the term "Tuskegee Airman".  Our instructor was telling the class about this group of African American pilot who fought heroically during WWII when it suddenly dawned on me that my grandfather Captain John Daniels was one of these men.  And just like you, one of my classmates argued with the instructor about how there was no such thing as a "black pilot" during WWII.  I even backed up my instructor by indicating that my grandfather had been one of these men but to no avail.  I know the depictions of them by HBO and Steven Spielberg's Red Tails showed one of the bomber pilots they saved as wanting to shake the hand of the pilot who saved his life but was in disbelief and refused to once he discovered the pilot was black.  Do you think this is BS as well?

Is it because it creates cognitive dissonance that you can't accept what I'm telling you even though it is documented history?

And why would you think that we, his descendants, who have his blood running through our veins, would be any less successful in our endeavors?


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

monkrules said:


> Lisa you have a ton of energy.
> 
> But it's a losing battle trying to reason with these losers. All they want to do is dredge up the past so they can accuse whites of racism and oppression. The conclusion is always the same: their hand outstretched for more free shit, especially , money.
> 
> ...


The white racists on this board are the losers, in every way.  

If you're not sure you're one, ask somebody.  Lisa has a very low bar


----------



## Meathead (Apr 19, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> You mean other people who are not "people of African descent"?  White racists are the dregs of society, even lower than what you consider black people yet still you haven't figured this out.
> 
> It doesn't surprise me that you're not able to make the connection but hey that's to be expected, including you not believing the things I've relayed about by grandfather.  In fact it wasn't until I was enrolled in college and attending a history of aviation class that I first heard the term "Tuskegee Airman".  Our instructor was telling the class about this group of African American pilot who fought heroically during WWII when it suddenly dawned on me that my grandfather Captain John Daniels was one of these men.  And just like you, one of my classmates argued with the instructor about how there was no such thing as a "black pilot" during WWII.  I even backed up my instructor by indicating that my grandfather had been one of these men but to no avail.  I know the depictions of them by HBO and Steven Spielberg's Red Tails showed one of the bomber pilots they saved as wanting to shake the hand of the pilot who saved his life but was in disbelief and refused to once he discovered the pilot was black.  Do you think this is BS as well?
> 
> ...


I know nothing of your family's "documented history"nor am I inclined to care. I do know failure when I see it though.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Wow. Another lib with a big chip on her shoulder.
> 
> As I said in my OP, the reasons for poverty among blacks is the same as it is for whites. And the reason I’m focusing on blacks is because racism is being blamed for THEIR poverty, and obviously not for whites.



Except whites didn't encounter 400 years of institutionalized racism on top of other causes of poverty. 

But you keep trying to pretend that isn't a thing. 



Lisa558 said:


> What do you mean, with or without a job? WITH a job of course. People who refuse to work have no standing to complain that they live in poverty.
> 
> The point is…again…..that people who graduate from high school and do not have out-of-wedlock babies when they’re still only teens rarely live in poverty. So other than in those rare instances, all it takes to stay out of poverty is to finish school and not have babies you can’t afford. Race irrelevant.



Awesome, let's pass a living wage and create workfare where every American is ENTITLED to a job. if private industry won't hire them, the government can find work for them to do. 



Lisa558 said:


> And what’s YOUR definition of poverty? If you can afford to rent a little room in the basement of someone’s house and pay for the bus ride to your job, then you’re not in poverty. That’s how my dad lived when he first go out of college. You think a high school dropout should be entitled to afford that?



Uh, yeah, let's look at that. 


You see, it used to be in this country, that most white people when they dropped out of high school or just completed it, could walk down to the Union Hall and get a union job that paid enough to make ends meet.   Of course, Republicans worked very hard to take that away from them.   They realized, as the other pointed out that given a choice between treating a minority as an equal and losing their middle class life style, they'll give up being middle class every time.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 19, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> I encountered Ray shortly after I became a member here back in 2018 and actually had a conversation with him that I thought went pretty well. However there are two things about him that always struck me as not fitting his persona:
> 1. I never could figure out if it was fear or aggression that caused him to choose his avatar because it definitely comes across as passive aggressive (the whole "never point your weapon at anyone or anything you're not willing to kill or destroy")
> 2. It's interesting that a self-admitted white separatist lives among black people. He explained how that came about but it seems to defy his identity that he hasn't separated from those he deems should have their own segregated space as should he.
> 
> Oh and I recently found out that he believes that the T.V. show Cops is a valid representation of black people in America. As disturbing as I find this revelation, it explains more than it impresses (meaning #1 & #2).



What I've noticed about Ray is that it's always someone else's fault.  

When his job cut his health insurance a few years ago, it was all Obama's fault.  Nope, forget that 20 million people got health insurance under ACA, he's one of those conservatives who miraculously lost it because their companies refused to get a plan that was ACA compliant.  And nope, he couldn't possibly get another job with another company that did offer insurance.  

It's the government's fault his town became a slum. Not because big business took away all the industry and the affluent left with them.   Nope, it was the government giving section 8 vouchers to poor people. 

His latest schtick is that because the government ruled that he couldn't safely operate a truck (depending on which telling, he's either perfectly fine and the government pulled him off the road or he's pretty much on Death's Door and totally entitled to disability.) he can't possibly do any other kind of work because it's beneath him to answer phones or file paperwork.  But he'll tell you that his disability is FAR superior to the food stamps someone gets working a part time job.  

He's just a guy who would rather curse the darkness than light a candle.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 19, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Actually all AA does is provide a cause of action (a right to bring legal action via a lawsuit) IF the plaintiff can prove violations of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 however the deck is still stacked against minorities. In fact the people who have had the most success suing under the Civil Rights Act of 1964/affirmative action have been white.
> 
> I'm not disagreeing with you I'm merely pointing out that just because there is a law prohibiting discrimination, there are still a lot of people who don't agree with it and pay it no mind, including one poster here on this site who mentioned all of the times he refused to consider any black applicants for work in his department at an aerospace company.



Oh, I agree.   AA doesn't overcome the bias in the system, and actually proving discrimination is an uphill battle.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 19, 2022)

monkrules said:


> Lisa you have a ton of energy.
> 
> But it's a losing battle trying to reason with these losers. All they want to do is dredge up the past so they can accuse whites of racism and oppression. The conclusion is always the same: their hand outstretched for more free shit, especially , money.
> 
> ...


I’ve put the antisemite on ignore, and for the most part ignore the racist black. It’s incredible, though, that they are both so rooted in anger and jealousy that they are unable to see how they both rail against the wrong of prejudice against blacks while spewing their own prejudice against Jews (Antisemite Joe) and whites (Racist Paul).

The hypocrisy of liberals is surreal.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 19, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Why do you think I have a chip on my shoulder?  Simply because I corrected your misconceptions?
> 
> And you quoted me 3 times and yet you were unable to point out where in the text of the affirmative action EO is says to give preference to unqualified black people over more qualified white people.  That's a flat out lie and the reason I suspect you went on the offensive
> 
> ...



Couldn’t manage to read through your diatribe of denial. If you don’t think that blacks have been favored in college admissions for 40 years, where blacks with SUBSTANTIALLY lower grades and scores get admitted while whites much higher grades and scores are rejected, you’re a liar or an ignoramus.

It‘s time for leftists to drop racist policies and judge people on their merit instead of race. Like you, for example: I have no clue as to whether you’re black or white, but I know that you are a nasty person who denies reality and lashes out at decent people who speak the truth rather than make excuses.

And I answered you as to why I am focusing on blacks, but you ignore what I’ve said: People like you are blaming the failure of the black underclass on RACISM; they blame the failure of “white trash” (the term libs use) on their stupidity, laziness, whatever. I am saying that the reason people remain in poverty, in 95% of the cases, is the same regardless of race: they have babies they can’t afford and they don’t finish school.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

Meathead said:


> I know nothing of your family's "documented history"nor am I inclined to care. I do know failure when I see it though.


Uh huh.  Does "failure" have a color?


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 19, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> The Jewish people for the most part are not "people of African descent".  If you don't know what that means, it means the same thing that applies to the Irish, and Asian and other immigrants who are NOT BLACK.
> 
> The laws that applied to "us" did not apply to any  of them.  Does that still not clarify things for you?


I never said they were of African descent. I’ve said they are a slim minority that has experienced persecution and oppression and expulsion and murder, and yet they rose above all that to be among the most successful groups in the world. They have just about the highest educational attainment, have received a disproportionate number of Nobel prices, and have the top (or near - Asians might weigh them out) of income and net worth in this country.

And the “laws” that applied to blacks have been off the books for generations. They’ve had two generations of AA - I mean, damn! Both my parents went from impoverished tenements where half their families were murdered for being Jewish to earning college degrees (during the antisemitic Jew quota years) to owning a middle class house  in the suburbs before they were 30! - so if there remains a small underclass of blacks who can’t manage to get paid-for job training or get into college after 40 years of favoritism - then it’s THEIR fault. Not whitet’s.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I’ve put the antisemite on ignore, and for the most part ignore the racist black. It’s incredible, though, that they are both so rooted in anger and jealousy that they are unable to see how they both rail against the wrong of prejudice against blacks while spewing their own prejudice against Jews (Antisemite Joe) and whites (Racist Paul).
> 
> The hypocrisy of liberals is surreal.



Nobody is discriminating against Jews... and your  religion is a choice, not a race.  

The very valid complaint blacks have is they've been waiting in line since 1619, and the Jews, Germans, Irish, Catholics, Poles, Italians all cut in line ahead of them.  



Lisa558 said:


> Couldn’t manage to read through your diatribe of denial. If you don’t think that blacks have been favored in college admissions for 40 years, where blacks with SUBSTANTIALLY lower grades and scores get admitted while whites much higher grades and scores are rejected, you’re a liar or an ignoramus.



So what?  Their grades were still good enough to get in, and those whites went to college somewhere else.   

Despite their advantages, black enrollment has remained relatively flat. 







Lisa558 said:


> It‘s time for leftists to drop racist policies and judge people on their merit instead of race. Like you, for example: I have no clue as to whether you’re black or white, but I know that you are a nasty person who denies reality and lashes out at decent people who speak the truth rather than make excuses.



Well, we know youare a nasty old bat who spews racism all day and wets herself when she sees a black person on a poster. 



Lisa558 said:


> And I answered you as to why I am focusing on blacks, but you ignore what I’ve said: People like you are blaming the failure of the black underclass on RACISM; they blame the failure of “white trash” (the term libs use) on their stupidity, laziness, whatever. I am saying that the reason people remain in poverty, in 95% of the cases, is the same regardless of race: they have babies they can’t afford and they don’t finish school.



You can say that, but it's just not true. 

Check this out... White poverty rates are lower than any other race- even Asians, who you keep promoting as the "Model Minority".


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> And the “laws” that applied to blacks have been off the books for generations. They’ve had two generations of AA - I mean, damn! Both my parents went from impoverished tenements where half their families were murdered for being Jewish to earning college degrees (during the antisemitic Jew quota years) to owning a middle class house in the suburbs before they were 30! - so if there remains a small underclass of blacks who can’t manage to get paid-for job training or get into college after 40 years of favoritism - then it’s THEIR fault. Not whitet’s.



Half their families?  Really?   

Again, no one knows you're Jewish until you open your mouth.   Blacks don't have that advantage.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 19, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Except you're not being honest because that's not what's happening.


Of course it’s happening, and it‘s been happening for 40 years. If you want to stick to the claim that whites with higher grades and scores aren‘t being rejected to make room for lower-scoring blacks, then you’re the one not be honest.

Being jealous and resentful of successful minorities, like Jews and Asians, despite the bigotry against them, you and your ilk - if you really wanted to help impoverished black people - would say the obvious: Just emulate the behavior of successful minorities that have also experienced horrific bigotry, and your family will be middle class by the next generation.

This is all about brainwashing whites, the majority and thus the voting majority, when they are still schoolchildren, to think that blacks are pulling up the rear due to racism, and eventually vote for reparations.

As far as I’m concerned, two generations of affirmative action is reparations enough.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 19, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> and neither one of them is "of African descent" aka "BLACK" or "NEGRO" or the more nasty words you all use and then deny that any of you are racist.


Denial is a River in Egypt. Why are you so intent on keeping black people poor and dependent on government handouts rather than hold them responsible for their own choices, and encourage those good choices that would help them?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 19, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> don't call her a whore



Why not?  When I see a dog, I call it a dog.  Oh, that's right, you're a leftist.  When you see a guy in a dress, you call him a woman.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Couldn’t manage to read through your diatribe of denial. If you don’t think that blacks have been favored in college admissions for 40 years, where blacks with SUBSTANTIALLY lower grades and scores get admitted while whites much higher grades and scores are rejected, you’re a liar or an ignoramus.
> 
> It‘s time for leftists to drop racist policies and judge people on their merit instead of race. Like you, for example: I have no clue as to whether you’re black or white, but I know that you are a nasty person who denies reality and lashes out at decent people who speak the truth rather than make excuses.
> 
> And I answered you as to why I am focusing on blacks, but you ignore what I’ve said: People like you are blaming the failure of the black underclass on RACISM; they blame the failure of “white trash” (the term libs use) on their stupidity, laziness, whatever. I am saying that the reason people remain in poverty, in 95% of the cases, is the same regardless of race: they have babies they can’t afford and they don’t finish school.


So you think that out of all of the people in this country who are working on this problem, your solution of finish school and not having babies they can't afford is ALL that it takes for people to rise out of poverty?  And in your mind, this is a "black people's" problem right?

You're mistaken and it's been explained to you more than once and politely too I might add yet you respond with nothing but insults and derision.



> ...The lack of education is the main cause of generational poverty and the reason it continues throughout generations, Crow said.​​*"If education is not important in the family, they don't pass that down*. Education is always the key to success of getting out of poverty," Crow said.​​Without a high school diploma or GED, chances for employment are greatly reduced. *However, many don't have the desire to pursue an education or better themselves*, she said.​​*People caught in the cycle of generational poverty often are in survival mode. They are focused on whatever challenges greet them each day, whether that's paying the rent, buying food or taking care of a health problem.
> *
> *https://www.thenewsstar.com/story/news/local/2015/01/24/breaking-cycle-generational-poverty/22292849/*​


​Why are the people of Appalachia living in generational poverty?  Why aren't you lecturing them?
​


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 19, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> If the reasons for poverty are the same, according to you, then why are you singling out black people living in poverty?  You've got a lot of nerve lecturing anyone.


I just told you - and this will be the third and final time: because RACISM is being blamed on blacks being poor, and it is not being blamed for whites being poor. I said in the OP, in the first sentence, that the cause of poverty for both blacks and whites is the same: bad choices.

The difference is, once again, and I will Speak Slowly doe you…..leftists are not saying that poor whites are poor due to racism. (To the contrary, they mock them and call them morons and white trash,) But then they excuse blacks doe being poor due to racism.

You people don’t want blacks to advance. You want to keep them poor and dependent. YOU are the racist.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 19, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> White people in this country have been so accustomed to being given preference that when it begins to wane, you all think you're being discriminated against.  You're not, you were never entitled to the whole pie in the first place.


Wow. Not only in denial, but a racist to boot!

Applying equal admissions standards to applicants regardless of race isn’t giving whites “preference.” It simply is NOT giving blacks preference.

And I never thought I was entitled to the whole pie. I never thought I was entitled to anything. My parents taught me that by going to college to prepare for a career OR a vocational program to prepare for a trade, working hard, being disciplined, etc. is the way to earn a decent living. That’s what leftists should be telling poor blacks insteas of “well before you were born there was bad racism.” 

They never told me to stay in high school or not get pregnant when I was still a kid because that was obvious,


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 19, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> The white racists on this board are the losers, in every way.
> 
> If you're not sure you're one, ask somebody.  Lisa has a very low bar


I’ve said nothing racist. You and your ilk however are spewing venom about whites.

Again, your insistence on blaming blacks who remain in poverty on whitey - rather than on their own bad choices and actions - will ensure they stay poor, and, as LBJ said when he devised welfare, “keep them voting Democrat for 200 years.”

It is shameful that you are willing to keep blacks down in order to maintain political control. SHAMEFUL.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I’ve said nothing racist. You and your ilk however are spewing venom about whites.
> 
> Again, your insistence on blaming blacks who remain in poverty on whitey - rather than on their own bad choices and actions - will ensure they stay poor, and, as LBJ said when he devised welfare, “keep them voting Democrat for 200 years.”
> 
> It is shameful that you are willing to keep blacks down in order to maintain political control. SHAMEFUL.


What party do most black people vote for?


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I never said they were of African descent. I’ve said they are a slim minority that has experienced persecution and oppression and expulsion and murder, and yet they rose above all that to be among the most successful groups in the world. They have just about the highest educational attainment, have received a disproportionate number of Nobel prices, and have the top (or near - Asians might weigh them out) of income and net worth in this country.
> 
> And the “laws” that applied to blacks have been off the books for generations. They’ve had two generations of AA - I mean, damn! Both my parents went from impoverished tenements where half their families were murdered for being Jewish to earning college degrees (during the antisemitic Jew quota years) to owning a middle class house  in the suburbs before they were 30! - so if there remains a small underclass of blacks who can’t manage to get paid-for job training or get into college after 40 years of favoritism - then it’s THEIR fault. Not whitet’s.


LOL, you've been wrong about so much it's hard to keep up.  To put it more directly the Jewish people for the most part are not black (of African descent) and neither are any of the other groups I mentioned which is what triggers the white racists to engage in their cruel and racially motivated discrimination and violence.

Well my parents were never "poor", nor were my grandparents but we may have been a little privileged but it's not because we're black, it's because of our family connections.  My dad was a tradesman and my mom retired from the county as a systems analyst.  My dad learned his trade from his father, as did his brothers and my mom worked her way up from a key punch operator to a position response for hiring/firing personnel.  I already mention her dad but again he was a fighter pilot in WWII, he's mentioned in several books about the Red Tails/Tuskegee Airmen while my dad's father is mentioned in several publications as well.

It's almost comical to watch you and the other racists lecturing us on what black people need to do to rise out of poverty when we were never in poverty as a family going back generations although we do know the plantation from where we descended.

Last I heard, a reunion was being organized for the descendents of the slaves (that's us) along with the owners of the plantation.  It should be very interesting.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I’ve said nothing racist. You and your ilk however are spewing venom about whites.
> 
> Again, your insistence on blaming blacks who remain in poverty on whitey - rather than on their own bad choices and actions - will ensure they stay poor, and, as LBJ said when he devised welfare, “keep them voting Democrat for 200 years.”
> 
> It is shameful that you are willing to keep blacks down in order to maintain political control. SHAMEFUL.


Calling black people Sambos is very racist and you know it although that is one of your milder comments.

As far as your last statement, you're completely deranged, I don't engage in activities of control, I deal with consequences.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 19, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> So you think that out of all of the people in this country who are working on this problem, your solution of finish school and not having babies they can't afford is ALL that it takes for people to rise out of poverty?  And in your mind, this is a "black people's" problem right?



Yes. That‘s what it takes, in the vast majority of cases. 



NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> You're mistaken and it's been explained to you more than once and politely too I might add yet you respond with nothing but insults and derision.


Oh right…..insults and derision. You’re the one calling me a racist for  pointing out the obvious cause of poverty, regardless of color.


NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> ​Why are the people of Appalachia living in generational poverty?  Why aren't you lecturing them?
> ​


As I said in the OP, the causes of white and black poverty are identical.  But they’re not blaming racism on their situation, and the topic of the thread is that racism against blacks is not the cause of poverty.  

Why are you so resistant to telling blacks how they can move from poverty? After all, the majority HAVE. How did they do that? By making the right choices.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 19, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> LOL, you've been wrong about so much it's hard to keep up.  To put it more directly the Jewish people for the most part are not black (of African descent) and neither are any of the other groups I mentioned which is what triggers the white racists to engage in their cruel and racially motivated discrimination and violence.
> 
> Well my parents were never "poor", nor were my grandparents but we may have been a little privileged but it's not because we're black, it's because of our family connections.  My dad was a tradesman and my mom retired from the county as a systems analyst.  My dad learned his trade from his father, as did his brothers and my mom worked her way up from a key punch operator to a position response for hiring/firing personnel.  I already mention her dad but again he was a fighter pilot in WWII, he's mentioned in several books about the Red Tails/Tuskegee Airmen while my dad's father is mentioned in several publications as well.
> 
> ...


Couldn’t read your diatribe because you ignore what I say: you wrote upthread that Jews are not of African descent, and I replied that I never said we were.  And you go right back to “Jews were not of African descent.”

And what do you mean that we were never in poverty as a family? I just said that my family - my grandparents - arrived here penniless, (fleeing antisemitism in Europe), uneducated, and not even speaking the language, and yet a generation later every one of their kids were college grads!

And before you race in with the excuse that Jews never experienced antisemitism, I’d say that focusing on your studies while your mother is crying in the next room because Hitler had just killed her own mother, and sister, and nieces, and nephews, IS experiencing antidemitism. So is knowing, as a teen, that the DEMOCRAT president turned the St. Louis Jews back to Europe because he would rather see them murdered than allow any more Jews into America, IS experiencing antidemitism.

So if my father  and mother and aunt and uncle were able to move out of poverty amidst all this Jew-hate, by 1) getting an education, and 2) waiting to start their families until after marriage, there’s no reason blacks can’t take the same route and do the same.

Take your excuses and shove them.


----------



## Meathead (Apr 19, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Uh huh.  Does "failure" have a color?


Yes, they were red on your school assignments and black/dark brown on your skin.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 19, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> I encountered Ray shortly after I became a member here back in 2018 and actually had a conversation with him that I thought went pretty well.  However there are two things about him that always struck me as not fitting his persona:
> 1.  I never could figure out if it was fear or aggression that caused him to choose his avatar because it definitely comes across as passive aggressive (the whole "never point your weapon at anyone or anything you're not willing to kill or destroy")
> 2.  It's interesting that a self-admitted white separatist lives among black people.  He explained how that came about but it seems to defy his identity that he hasn't separated from those he deems should have their own segregated space as should he.
> 
> Oh and I recently found out that he believes that the T.V. show Cops is a valid representation of black people in America.  As disturbing as I find this revelation, it explains more than it impresses (meaning #1 & #2).



Then allow me to clear everything up for you: 

My avatar is a representation of my support for self-defense in this country.  Leftists are always trying to find ways to disarm the law abiding citizen, while in support of their leaders who give criminals a slap on the hand when they use this valuable instrument we call a gun in a crime.  I always held the belief in self-defense.  When I was in my early 20's, my home was broken into, and that's when I took my first interest in guns.  When I got a little older I worked out with weights, joined martial arts, and studied until I reached black belt.  I'm not a violent person either, but if somebody was looking for trouble, they didn't choose the 6'3" guy with a build to start trouble with.  And if they did, I was more than plenty prepared. 

When I moved here over 35 years ago as a renter, I fell in love with this place.  Large back yard for a suburban property, outdoor fireplace, a community where everybody got along.  Safe, secure, great schools and stores.  So when it came up for sale a few years later, I bought it as a side business.  Blacks moved in and began to destroy the city years later.  White flight happened but I remained here because why should I move?  We didn't become the strongest and wealthiest country in the world by people who ran from trouble.  My parents were aging and still live in this area.  I want to be close by in case they need me for anything.  My mother never had a drivers license in her life.  

When blacks finished off the city, I began to look around.  In their destruction my property value is only as much as I bought the place for nearly 30 years ago.  White areas are much more expensive to live in, and how long will it take before blacks move there and start destroying those areas as well?  I gave up that option because for one, my tenants are more like my friends and family to me, and during this rental shortage, I want to make sure they have a affordable place to live as long as I can.  Two, late last summer I was diagnosed with cancer, and they gave me six months to a year to live.  Chemo is doing very well, but it can't cure the cancer.  It may only give me extended time.  So what would be the point of selling out and moving now?  

The show COPS is not a reenactment.  It's footage of actual police work and the suspects are not actors.  It ties hand and hand with what our police go through here.  I often listen to my police scanner, and with all the trouble blacks cause, I see it from time to time right on my street.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 19, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Why are the people of Appalachia living in generational poverty? Why aren't you lecturing them?



There are no jobs around for one.  Two, they are not crying out for help or blaming anybody but themselves.  Three, they are really not in poverty.  They make less but have a lower cost of living, so they are not really poor unless you are comparing them to others around the country in commie states where you need to make a lot more just to have a standard home.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 19, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Calling black people Sambos is very racist and you know it although that is one of your milder comments.
> 
> As far as your last statement, you're completely deranged, I don't engage in activities of control, I deal with consequences.


I’m not calling black people Sambos (that name was suggested to me by another poster) anymore than liberals are calling white people Karen’s,) That name is for whites like you who make excuses for blacks’ poor choices that lead to poverty.

Also, why pick on ME, rather than the poster who suggested I use that name? Could it be because your resentment toward Jews, who have proven people can rise above bigotry and become successful, has made you zero in on me as a target?

And you say you deal with consequences? How about dealing with the actions that CAUSE them? Should we just pretend that blacks are poor - well, the subset we are talking about - because….racism…..rather than the actions of having babies in their teens and dropping out of school? Would you prefer we just encourage that behavior, or at least not discourage it, because then you all can claim “they‘re poor! Because racism! We deserve reparations!”


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 19, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> As far as your last statement, you're completely deranged, I don't engage in activities of control, I deal with consequences.



I'm glad you feel that way.

_In an article written by *Matt Levin for CALmatters*, a disturbing statistic was revealed.  Three out of four black boys (75%) failed to meet the reading and writing requirements, and more than half of them scored in the lowest category on the English portion of the test.

Black boys are already more likely to be suspended and to drop out of school than other demographics in California and elsewhere, so the reading data adds on to an already troubling set of statistics plaguing black boys in school.

The data shows that by fourth grade, nearly 80 percent of black boys failed to meet state reading standards, and of all the data collected by the state, black boys trailed black girls by the widest margin.

Certainly scores aren’t the only educational area in which black boys trail their peers. African-American boys are more likely to be suspended and drop out of school than other demographic groups, in California and elsewhere.

But the reading data is sobering. As early as fourth grade, for example, nearly 80 percent of black boys failed to meet state reading standards. Of all ethnic groups for which the state collects data, black boys trailed black girls by the widest margin._









						75% of Black California Boys Don’t Meet State Reading Standards
					

Posted June 4, 2017 In an article written by Matt Levin for CALmatters, a disturbing statistic was revealed.  Three out of four black boys (75%) failed to meet the reading and writing requirements,…



					blackmeninamerica.com
				




In California, whites are a minority in that state, but they attend the very same schools as blacks and Hispanics among others.  What this clearly demonstrates is the lack of educational interest by black parents.


----------



## gipper (Apr 19, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I'm glad you feel that way.
> 
> _In an article written by *Matt Levin for CALmatters*, a disturbing statistic was revealed.  Three out of four black boys (75%) failed to meet the reading and writing requirements, and more than half of them scored in the lowest category on the English portion of the test.
> 
> ...


Yet our government schools continue to pass failing students. It can be argued these schools are failing many, not just young blacks. Thus they are destined to a life of poverty and many resort to crime. It’s a perpetual cycle that the establishment seems fine with.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 19, 2022)

gipper said:


> Yet our government schools continue to pass failing students. It can be argued these schools are failing many, not just young blacks. Thus they are destined to a life of poverty and many resort to crime. It’s a perpetual cycle that the establishment seems fine with.


Definitely! In Baltimore, for example, where the student body in public schools are overwhelmingly black, virtually nobody is proficient in math or English. In one high school, only ONE student squeaked by with a passing score.

Wouldn‘t it be to these kids‘ benefit to focus not only on the basic academics, but include vocational classes as well so they will have a marketable skill upon graduation? Instead, we have the left insistent on teaching them how oppressed they are by racists, and then graduating them with 8th grade mastery of basic English and math, NO job skills, and the brainwashing that it’s the whites’ fault they can’t get a job better than McDonalds.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Definitely! In Baltimore, for example, where the student body in public schools are overwhelmingly black, virtually nobody is proficient in math or English. In one high school, only ONE student squeaked by with a passing score.
> 
> Wouldn‘t it be to these kids‘ benefit to focus not only on the basic academics, but include vocational classes as well so they will have a marketable skill upon graduation? Instead, we have the left insistent on teaching them how oppressed they are by racists, and then graduating them with 8th grade mastery of basic English and math, NO job skills, and the brainwashing that it’s the whites’ fault they can’t get a job better than McDonalds.



I don't know about vocational.  We had a vocational school when I was a kid.  The problem was by the time you got through it, advancements were developed that made the education almost worthless.  

What we can do however is teach teens in high school finances and investments.  A lot of kids, especially from lower income families believe the only chances at financial success is being born in the right family, having the ability to make a rap song, or exceptionally talented in sports.  Other than that, the only way to riches is a life of crime.  

I would be willing to bet that if you ask any high school graduate what they know about finances, they wouldn't be able to tell you.  Get out of high school, go to college for whatever, and spend the next 20 years repaying your six figure loan.  They know nothing about the stock market, nothing about an IRA, how to open up a business, real estate investments, compound interest, credit cards, the commodities market.  These courses should be taught as part of a mandatory curriculum.  

It reminds me of something that happened years ago.  A customer of ours was bought out by a much larger company.  I went there for a pickup during lunch.  I like to BS with the guys and had nothing to do anyway until they got off of lunch.  It was segregated.  The white workers sat in one group and the blacks in another.  The discussion at hand in the white group was the stock benefits their new company gave them.  They were talking about growth rate, history of the company, the ability to purchase additional stock at a discounted price, that sort of thing.  Before they got off I went to the shipper to inform him I was there for the pickup when they were done.  He was a black guy and kind of the supervisor of shipping and packing.  So I asked him what he thought of the new stocks they got.  His reply was telling.  He said "I don't know nothing about no stocks.  All I know is I make my money here (pointing to the floor) and it go into here" pointing to his right pocket.

If you are fortunate enough to have parents that learned about investments, that's great.   But if you don't, it should be taught in our public schools.


----------



## gipper (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Definitely! In Baltimore, for example, where the student body in public schools are overwhelmingly black, virtually nobody is proficient in math or English. In one high school, only ONE student squeaked by with a passing score.
> 
> Wouldn‘t it be to these kids‘ benefit to focus not only on the basic academics, but include vocational classes as well so they will have a marketable skill upon graduation? Instead, we have the left insistent on teaching them how oppressed they are by racists, and then graduating them with 8th grade mastery of basic English and math, NO job skills, and the brainwashing that it’s the whites’ fault they can’t get a job better than McDonalds.


Why have the elite/establishment allowed generations of poor Americans the inability to access a quality education?  I believe this is the main reason many Americans including blacks, have been relegated to a life of poverty. If you can’t effectively read, write, or handle basic math you’re unlikely to rise from poverty or make the right choices in life.

In many ways this is a failure of government and the elites who control it. It makes one consider the elites want it this way.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 19, 2022)

gipper said:


> Yet our government schools continue to pass failing students. It can be argued these schools are failing many, not just young blacks. Thus they are destined to a life of poverty and many resort to crime. It’s a perpetual cycle that the establishment seems fine with.



I don't know if it's an establishment thing or a union thing.  Failing students reflect badly on a teacher even though in most cases it's not a teachers fault.  Parents who don't involve themselves in their childrens education end up with a failing child and the teacher simply gives up.  Pass these kids to the next grade and your problem is solved.  Don't be worried about getting fired.  The union will make sure that never happens.  

We have to get the best talent from other countries.  Our new adults simply don't have the necessary primary education to take any difficult college courses.  How is it the US spends the most per capita on education and countries that spend much less have better outcomes?  When the discussion comes up, the leftists claim that we don't spend enough money and that's the problem.


----------



## gipper (Apr 19, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I don't know if it's an establishment thing or a union thing.  Failing students reflect badly on a teacher even though in most cases it's not a teachers fault.  Parents who don't involve themselves in their childrens education end up with a failing child and the teacher simply gives up.  Pass these kids to the next grade and your problem is solved.  Don't be worried about getting fired.  The union will make sure that never happens.
> 
> We have to get the best talent from other countries.  Our new adults simply don't have the necessary primary education to take any difficult college courses.  How is it the US spends the most per capita on education and countries that spend much less have better outcomes?  When the discussion comes up, the leftists claim that we don't spend enough money and that's the problem.


The public school system has certainly failed millions of Americans for several decades now. Yet little is done to rectify this problem. Instead of working diligently to improve education for all Americans which greatly benefits our nation, little is done by the establishment.

This among other reasons is why we as a nation are failing.

We spend the most on many things, yet still fail.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 19, 2022)

gipper said:


> The public school system has certainly failed millions of Americans for several decades now. Yet little is done to rectify this problem. Instead of working diligently to improve education for all Americans which greatly benefits our nation, little is done by the establishment.
> 
> This among other reasons is why we as a nation are failing.
> 
> We spend the most on many things, yet still fail.



My experience is that parents are not involved with their childrens' education.  Teachers can't do it alone like police can't fight crime alone.  These are small group of people expected to make life great for thousands.  

A personal example is about ten years ago my neighbor bought a free standing basketball hoop.  Before you knew it the entire neighborhood was here and kids from streets away.  On school days they'd play right into the night.  At 10:00 I had to tell them to knock it off or call the police.  One of the kids was seven years old.  

What chance does a teacher have trying to teach kids like this?  Why were the parent(s) not there to drag the child home and make sure his homework was done; at the very least, make sure they had ample sleep to be alert for school the next day?  

When my niece was in school her grades were failing.  She was skipping classes as well.  She was in a private Catholic school that my sister and her ex were paying 13K a year for.  When my sister was alerted of the problem, she immediately grounded her daughter and drastically cut her television and video game time.  She spent every night with her not only doing her current homework, but catching up on all the homework she didn't do before.  

When you're paying for your kids education with checks, you make sure you're getting your monies worth.  Maybe the solution is to stop taxing people who don't have kids in school and lay the burden on the parents that do?


----------



## IM2 (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The reason for poverty among blacks who remain poor (most are working class or above) is the same reason that whites in poverty remain poor. It is due to having babies while still in one’s teens, without a husband, and often without completing high school as a result.
> 
> Anyone can break free of poverty by doing the following, at a minimum:
> 
> ...


No, it's racism. Whites like you need to shut up about things you know nothing about.


----------



## Meathead (Apr 19, 2022)

IM2 said:


> No, it's racism. Whites like you need to shut up about things you know nothing about.


Yes, blacks are such happy, peaceful and prosperous people almost everywhere else they are found.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 19, 2022)

DGS49 said:


> Ben Shapiro has prominently published the formula for "success" in America:
> 
> Stay in School (at least a HS diploma),
> Get a job - they are ubiquitous, and
> ...


You are incorrect.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 19, 2022)

In 2017, Demos published a study titled, _“The Asset Value of Whiteness: Understanding the Racial Wealth Gap.” _On page 10 this statement is written: _*"The median white single parent has 2.2 times more wealth than the median black two-parent household and 1.9 times more wealth than the median Latino two-parent household."*

Amy Traub, Laura Sullivan, Tatjana Meschede and Thomas Shapiro, DEMOS, The Asset Value of Whiteness: Understanding the Racial Wealth Gap, pg. 10 https://www.demos.org/sites/default/files/publications/Asset Value of Whiteness_0.pdf_


----------



## gipper (Apr 19, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> My experience is that parents are not involved with their childrens' education.  Teachers can't do it alone like police can't fight crime alone.  These are small group of people expected to make life great for thousands.
> 
> A personal example is about ten years ago my neighbor bought a free standing basketball hoop.  Before you knew it the entire neighborhood was here and kids from streets away.  On school days they'd play right into the night.  At 10:00 I had to tell them to knock it off or call the police.  One of the kids was seven years old.
> 
> ...


We’ve always had bad parents and always will. We can’t fix that. We can fix bad schools, but the establishment has chosen not to.

Schools used to be able to discipline students and sometimes that discipline was harsh. This kept kids in line. Today there is no discipline. I suspect this is the problem. 

Personal Experience:
When I was in grade school the principal could spank a child with a paddle. He hung that paddle on the wall in the hallway outside his office, for all the students to see. I never received it my rear end, but I knew kids who did. They didn’t act up again.

I had a teacher in second grade who lined up several unruly boys in front of class and had them put out their hands palms up. She then proceeded to whack them with a thick wooden ruler. It makes a big impression on a child.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 19, 2022)

gipper said:


> We’ve always had bad parents and always will. We can’t fix that. We can fix bad schools, but the establishment has chosen not to.
> 
> Schools used to be able to discipline students and sometimes that discipline was harsh. This kept kids in line. Today there is no discipline. I suspect this is the problem.
> 
> ...



It has nothing to do with establishment, it has to do with parents and lawyers.  If a teacher hits a kid today they could find themselves in a lawsuit.  A friend (and former tenant) of mine is a teacher.  He told me when a fight breaks out, all they are allowed to do is break it up.  If the kid hits him, all he can legally do is take him to the office.  He can't strike him back, not even a whack on the ass with his hand.  In doing so he'd immediately be fired and probably never work as a teacher again.  

The prisoners are running the prisons.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 19, 2022)

IM2 said:


> In 2017, Demos published a study titled, _“The Asset Value of Whiteness: Understanding the Racial Wealth Gap.” _On page 10 this statement is written: _*"The median white single parent has 2.2 times more wealth than the median black two-parent household and 1.9 times more wealth than the median Latino two-parent household."*
> 
> Amy Traub, Laura Sullivan, Tatjana Meschede and Thomas Shapiro, DEMOS, The Asset Value of Whiteness: Understanding the Racial Wealth Gap, pg. 10 https://www.demos.org/sites/default/files/publications/Asset Value of Whiteness_0.pdf_



Okay, and what's your point?


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Of course it’s happening, and it‘s been happening for 40 years. If you want to stick to the claim that whites with higher grades and scores aren‘t being rejected to make room for lower-scoring blacks, then you’re the one not be honest.



Whites with lower scores are also having room made for them if they are legacies, athletes, or their families make big donations to the institutions, or bribe someone who shuffles papers.   All scores prove is you are good at taking tests. 



Lisa558 said:


> Being jealous and resentful of successful minorities, like Jews and Asians, despite the bigotry against them, you and your ilk - if you really wanted to help impoverished black people - would say the obvious: Just emulate the behavior of successful minorities that have also experienced horrific bigotry, and your family will be middle class by the next generation.



NO, we really don't want anyone emulating the Jews...  One group of people who think they are God's fucking gift to humanity is enough.  



Lisa558 said:


> As far as I’m concerned, two generations of affirmative action is reparations enough.


Yes, you live in horror those black people don't know their place.   But 40 years of half ass measurses vs. 360 years of institutionalized racism?  Not even close. 

As far as "reparations", just not seeing that as a big deal.  If we paid them a token amount with a formal apology, what's the harm?


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 19, 2022)

Not that I expect Karen558 for answers, but she whines about how black kids need to stay in school and not have babies. 

And yet when she gets a kid who stayed in school and didn't make any babies, but got a slightly lower score than a White Kid, well, shit, we need to totally reject him from college!


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> And before you race in with the excuse that Jews never experienced antisemitism, I’d say that focusing on your studies while your mother is crying in the next room because Hitler had just killed her own mother, and sister, and nieces, and nephews, IS experiencing antidemitism. So is knowing, as a teen, that the DEMOCRAT president turned the St. Louis Jews back to Europe because he would rather see them murdered than allow any more Jews into America, IS experiencing antidemitism.



Wait... Wait, aren't you guys the ones who want to send people back to Central America because they entered the country illegally, just like the passengers on the St. Louis were trying to do?


----------



## IM2 (Apr 19, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Okay, and what's your point?


The things you guys are saying is not the reason.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 19, 2022)

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> You have no understanding of US History or policy if you think it is not racism.
> 
> Just a 10 minute read of the Tulsa town bombings and Emmitt Till’a murder teaches you all you need to know.
> 
> ...


So you actually believe the Interstate Hwys only affected Black people?  You're joking. Right?


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 19, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Wait... Wait, aren't you guys the ones who want to send people back to Central America because they entered the country illegally, just like the passengers on the St. Louis were trying to do?


The passengers on the St. Louis were war refugees.


----------



## woodwork201 (Apr 19, 2022)

PinktheFloyd88 said:


> You have no understanding of US History or policy if you think it is not racism.
> 
> Just a 10 minute read of the Tulsa town bombings and Emmitt Till’a murder teaches you all you need to know.
> 
> ...



Black poverty actually does stem from racism - the racism of the left, of the Democrats.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 19, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> The passengers on the St. Louis were war refugees.




Really? 

The St. Louis set sail on May 13th. 1939.
It arrived in Havana on May 27
They were refused admittance to the US and sailed back on June 6th, 1939. 
When it got to Europe, France, Belgium and the UK took them in. 

The war didn't start until September 1939 

They were not war refugees.  They were illegal immigrants who had not been cleared for admittance to the United States.  None of them were forced to return to Germany.  True, some of them got killed during the war when Belgium and France got their asses handed to them by the Wehrmacht, but how is that FDR's fault, exactly? 

Americans didn't want any more immigrants (Immigration laws were changed after the Great Depression started) and they wanted nothing to do with European Wars.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 19, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Really?
> 
> The St. Louis set sail on May 13th. 1939.
> It arrived in Havana on May 27
> ...


A third of the Jews on the St. Louis were murdered in Nazi concentration camps.  Why do you think Jews were trying to get out of Germany?


----------



## PinktheFloyd88 (Apr 19, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> Black poverty actually does stem from racism - the racism of the left, of the Democrats.


ok


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 19, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> A third of the Jews on the St. Louis were murdered in Nazi concentration camps. Why do you think Jews were trying to get out of Germany?



Why was that our problem?   I mean, I hate to say this, but you guys are INSISTING Trump Done Good by refusing admittance to people from Central America who face being murdered and raped by drug gangs, but FDR was supposed to KNOW that a war was going to break out, and that the countries that DID take these people would get taken over.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 19, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> A third of the Jews on the St. Louis were murdered in Nazi concentration camps.  Why do you think Jews were trying to get out of Germany?


A.S. Joe is a big antisemite (who ironically cries about the wrong of bigotry against blacks). I have him on ignore, but I imagine he drew a parallel between Jews fleeing Hitler who was trying to exterminate them and illegal aliens from Central America giving bogus asylum claims but really just looking for free stuff from American taxpayers.

European Jews feeling Hitler had legitimate asylum claims and should have been admitted, but the Democrat in charge preferred to send them to their deaths. The illegal aliens have no such claim in 90% of the cases.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> A.S. Joe is a big antisemite (who ironically cries about the wrong of bigotry against blacks). I have him on ignore, but I imagine he drew a parallel between Jews fleeing Hitler who was trying to exterminate them and illegal aliens from Central America giving bogus asylum claims but really just looking for free stuff from American taxpayers.
> 
> European Jews feeling Hitler had legitimate asylum claims and should have been admitted, but the Democrat in charge preferred to send them to their deaths. The illegal aliens have no such claim in 90% of the cases.



Legally, people in Central America have legitimate claims under our current refugee laws.  

The people on the St. Louis didn't. This was 1939.  No concentration camps, yet.   German Jews were free to leave, which is why 75% of German and Austrian Jews survived the war because they had the good sense to immigrate out LEGALLY before the war started.  

Polish Jews, however, got the brunt of it... comprising half the Jews killed in the Holocaust.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 19, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> *Why was that our problem?*   I mean, I hate to say this, but you guys are INSISTING Trump Done Good by refusing admittance to people from Central America who face being murdered and raped by drug gangs, but FDR was supposed to KNOW that a war was going to break out, and that the countries that DID take these people would get taken over.


Unbelievable.  Everyone knew what was coming.  That's why the Jews were getting out.  The Jews were being rounded up before war broke out.  Also, if the Jews were not our problem, then why aren't the South American people not our problem?  You just defeated your own argument.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 19, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Legally, people in Central America have legitimate claims under our current refugee laws.
> 
> The people on the St. Louis didn't. This was 1939.  No concentration camps, yet.   German Jews were free to leave, which is why 75% of German and Austrian Jews survived the war because they had the good sense to immigrate out LEGALLY before the war started.
> 
> Polish Jews, however, got the brunt of it... comprising half the Jews killed in the Holocaust.


Go take a nap.  You're done here.








						Concentration Camps, 1933–1939
					

Learn about early concentration camps the Nazi regime established in Germany, and the expansion of the camp system during the Holocaust and World War II.




					encyclopedia.ushmm.org


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 19, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Unbelievable. Everyone knew what was coming. That's why the Jews were getting out. The Jews were being rounded up before war broke out. Also, if the Jews were not our problem, then why aren't the South American people not our problem? You just defeated your own argument.



Everyone knew?  Really?  

Because if they did, then everyone was woefully unprepared for the war.  

I don't believe we should take everyone from Central America (not South America)...  but we should follow our OWN LAWS about giving them hearings...


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 19, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Unbelievable.  Everyone knew what was coming.  That's why the Jews were getting out.  The Jews were being rounded up before war broke out.  Also, if the Jews were not our problem, then why aren't the South American people not our problem?  You just defeated your own argument.


He’s a big hypocrite. Typical of leftists. And of course resentful of Jews because they’ve shown that prejudice against a minority  doesn’t cause their poverty. Jews pull back the curtain on the leftists’ myth.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 19, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Go take a nap. You're done here.



The only camp in operation before the war was Dachau, and that was for political enemies...  

The "Final Solution" wasn't decided on until the Wannsee Conference in 1942. 

Hitler originally wanted to deport all Germany's Jews to Palestine.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> He’s a big hypocrite. Typical of leftists. And of course resentful of Jews because they’ve shown that prejudice against a minority doesn’t cause their poverty. Jews pull back the curtain on the leftists’ myth.



Naw, Sweetie, I resent the way you get American boys sent over to the MIddle East to die for your fucked up religious fantasies. Whatever moral high ground you had from the War, you lost when you started doing the same to the Palestinians.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 19, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Go take a nap.  You're done here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can’t see what the antisemite is saying, but I can gauge it by your responses. The dehumanization began a good 10 years before they were able to convince Germans to murder them en masse, and it was well known here. American newspapers were reporting it (that was back in the day that reporters were honest) for years.

While FDR had Jewish cabinet members, he had antisemitic attitudes as well. He was on the Board at Harvard and was the one who instituted quotas against Jews.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I can’t see what the antisemite is saying, but I can gauge it by your responses. The dehumanization began a good 10 years before they were able to convince Germans to murder them en masse, and it was well known here. American newspapers were reporting it (that was back in the day that reporters were honest) for years.



Wow... so many things wrong with that statement. 

The Nazis were only in power for 12 years.   Anti-Jewish sentiment can be traced back a lot further than that... they were blamed for instigating the revolutions that lost the war for Germany.  Was it fair, not really.    



Lisa558 said:


> While FDR had Jewish cabinet members, he had antisemitic attitudes as well. He was on the Board at Harvard and was the one who instituted quotas against Jews.



He also got us into the war in Europe to save the Jews...  when Most Americans wanted to stay out of it.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 19, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> The only camp in operation before the war was Dachau, and that was for political enemies...
> 
> The "Final Solution" wasn't decided on until the Wannsee Conference in 1942.
> 
> Hitler originally wanted to deport all Germany's Jews to Palestine.


The fact remains, 250 Jews from the St. Louis were murdered.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 19, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> The fact remains, 250 Jews from the St. Louis were murdered.



So where 70 million other people in World War II, what's your point?  

Now, I'm sure you learned the Disney Version of history where Hitler was "appeased". 

The reality was, most of the west was fine with Hitler (and Mussolini), because they were more terrified of Stalin!  It wasn't until Hitler and Stalin threw in together that the West said, "Maybe we need to do something about that boy!"


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 19, 2022)

woodwork201 said:


> Black poverty actually does stem from racism - the racism of the left, of the Democrats.



Of course.  You keep repeating over and over again you can't make it without our help, a lot of people will believe you.  You keep telling them over and over they have no chance in this free country, you will condition them to be helpless.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 19, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> So where 70 million other people in World War II, what's your point?
> 
> Now, I'm sure you learned the Disney Version of history where Hitler was "appeased".
> 
> The reality was, most of the west was fine with Hitler (and Mussolini), because they were more terrified of Stalin!  It wasn't until Hitler and Stalin threw in together that the West said, "Maybe we need to do something about that boy!"


You said it yourself...."Not our problem".  The South American future democrat voters can go right back.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 19, 2022)

IM2 said:


> The things you guys are saying is not the reason.



Actually, there is no other reason.  It still goes on today.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 19, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> You said it yourself...."Not our problem". The South American future democrat voters can go right back.



Wow, the point went over your head. 

No, we really should follow our own laws.   We have new laws because we did such a bad job dealing with refugees during WWII.  We need to follow them.


----------



## gipper (Apr 19, 2022)

IM2 said:


> The things you guys are saying is not the reason.


Of course it’s always whitey’s fault. Your old tune is worn out here.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 19, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Wow, the point went over your head.
> 
> No, we really should follow our own laws.   We have new laws because we did such a bad job dealing with refugees during WWII.  We need to follow them.


Yes, I agree.  These pawns at our border aren't refugees.


----------



## DGS49 (Apr 19, 2022)

Forget race.  People who have babies outside of marriage virtually guarantee economic failure for their offspring. People who make horrible life choices end up poor.  People who shun  our free public education fail.  People who engage in petty criminality go nowhere in life.  People who abuse alcohol and other controlled substances cause their own failure.

While racism has not been, and will never be, eradicated the instances where any Black people in the U.S. are significantly harmed by racism are extremely rare.  Most bigots are powerless buffoons, and for every opportunity that is extinguished because of a racist act, there are three or four other opportunities right around the corner, for those who choose to seek them out.

Furthermore, Affirmative Action and Diversity-Equity-Inclusion initiatives more than compensate for the negative impacts of the racism that remains.

In sum, few American Blacks have anything to complain about, which is why Black "leaders" and empty-headed Leftists must aggressively sow the seeds of envy and resentment to keep that flame alive.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 19, 2022)

DGS49 said:


> Forget race.  People who have babies outside of marriage virtually guarantee economic failure for their offspring. People who make horrible life choices end up poor.  People who shun  our free public education fail.  People who engage in petty criminality go nowhere in life.  People who abuse alcohol and other controlled substances cause their own failure.
> 
> While racism has not been, and will never be, eradicated the instances where any Black people in the U.S. are significantly harmed by racism are extremely rare.  Most bigots are powerless buffoons, and for every opportunity that is extinguished because of a racist act, there are three or four other opportunities right around the corner, for those who choose to seek them out.
> 
> ...


Thank you! That’s exactly what I said in my OP and have reiterated throughout the thread.

Unfortunately, you see that leftists become enraged when anyone suggests that blacks have it with themselves to move beyond poverty via the right choices - and they insist that anyone who doesn’t blame racism for those still mired in poverty instead is a racist.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 19, 2022)

DGS49 said:


> Forget race.  People who have babies outside of marriage virtually guarantee economic failure for their offspring. People who make horrible life choices end up poor.  People who shun  our free public education fail.  People who engage in petty criminality go nowhere in life.  People who abuse alcohol and other controlled substances cause their own failure.
> 
> While racism has not been, and will never be, eradicated the instances where any Black people in the U.S. are significantly harmed by racism are extremely rare.  Most bigots are powerless buffoons, and for every opportunity that is extinguished because of a racist act, there are three or four other opportunities right around the corner, for those who choose to seek them out.
> 
> ...


Excellent.   Right on.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 19, 2022)

DBA said:


> Wrong, but obviously it makes you feel better to think otherwise. It soothes your indoctrinated inner soul.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Unpleasant or dangerous jobs deserve high pay and get it.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 19, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Again, being white in this society is still an E-Ticket.
> 
> So here's the issue.  If we had enough college desks for everyone to at least start college, and a bachelor's degree was considered equally valid, this wouldn't be a problem.
> 
> ...


Being white doesn’t get you anything.  Now being rich, whatever your color gets you the keys to the kingdom.  The simple answer is that the rich rule, always have and always will.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 19, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Yes, I agree. These pawns at our border aren't refugees.



Um, some of them are, some of them aren't.  That's why we need to have HEARINGS to figure that out.  

The real problem is, we don't appoint enough courts and investigators to sort it out.  We just hope they'll get tired and go away. 





Lisa558 said:


> Thank you! That’s exactly what I said in my OP and have reiterated throughout the thread.
> 
> Unfortunately, you see that leftists become enraged when anyone suggests that blacks have it with themselves to move beyond poverty via the right choices - and they insist that anyone who doesn’t blame racism for those still mired in poverty instead is a racist.



Except, again- if they stay in school and don't make babies, you want to keep them out of colleges for having slightly lower test scores than the white kids...  Which is kind of a dickish move...


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 19, 2022)

DGS49 said:


> Forget race. People who have babies outside of marriage virtually guarantee economic failure for their offspring. People who make horrible life choices end up poor. People who shun our free public education fail. People who engage in petty criminality go nowhere in life. People who abuse alcohol and other controlled substances cause their own failure.
> 
> While racism has not been, and will never be, eradicated the instances where any Black people in the U.S. are significantly harmed by racism are extremely rare. Most bigots are powerless buffoons, and for every opportunity that is extinguished because of a racist act, there are three or four other opportunities right around the corner, for those who choose to seek them out.



But you see, it's not the outright racists who are the problem.  (YOu know, people like Lisa, who think that black models on posters are a conspiracy to eradicate white people). 

It's the subtle racism most people aren't aware of. 

Human nature is to be sympathetic to people who remind us of ourselves.  Which is why there are so few interracial couples.  So if you have white people making all the hiring decisions and the admissions decisions, they are going to show preference to people like themselves.   Every job I've gotten, even the job where I worked for a Japanese Company, the decision to hire me was made by a white person. Usually a dude.   

To recap this story-  I worked for a company in 2012, where we had three women leave our small purchasing department over the summer for other opportunities, and being the social group we were, we had a going away lunch for each of them.  

They were - 
A Chinese-American woman who had been with the company for 9 years. Established many of our relationships with Asian vendors. 
An African American woman who had been with the company for 2 years.  Handled important accounts. 
A white intern who had been with us three months. 

Now, guess which one of these three the General Manager re-arranged his schedule for to go to lunch with us? 

If you guessed the white intern, you would be correct.  Of course, there was a bit more going on here.  The guy had serious mid-life crisis issues, for instance. 

But even in a ultimately inconsequential matter like that, a white person got preference for no other reason than she was white. 

Multiply that a thousand times, a million times, and you can see the problem.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Why not?  When I see a dog, I call it a dog.  Oh, that's right, you're a leftist.  When you see a guy in a dress, you call him a woman.


You know, unless you have personally slept with her, which certainly wouldn't have helped her alleged social climbing, then you don't KNOW anything about her, you only have rumors and your impulse to denigrate a female who has exceeded your life accomplishments, in spades, no pun intended.

If you wouldn't want your mom called a whore (unless she actually is one) then why would you think it's okay to call someone else, who hasn't done a thing to cause you harm, those kind of demeaning and derogatory names?  

Don't you have any women in your life who you feel don't deserve to be talked to or about in that manner?  If you do, then why do you think they are more special than Kamala?  And if you don't, well I guess that would explain a lot.


----------



## monkrules (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I’m not calling black people Sambos (that name was suggested to me by another poster) anymore than liberals are calling white people Karen’s,) That name is for whites like you who make excuses for blacks’ poor choices that lead to poverty.
> 
> Also, why pick on ME, rather than the poster who suggested I use that name? Could it be because your resentment toward Jews, who have proven people can rise above bigotry and become successful, has made you zero in on me as a target?
> 
> And you say you deal with consequences? How about dealing with the actions that CAUSE them? Should we just pretend that blacks are poor - well, the subset we are talking about - because….racism…..rather than the actions of having babies in their teens and dropping out of school? Would you prefer we just encourage that behavior, or at least not discourage it, because then you all can claim “they‘re poor! Because racism! We deserve reparations!”


Hey...I've stayed out of this thread because most of the replies from bleeding hearted, self-hating whites, and from all the black whiners we know so well, are predictable and stale. They're obsessed with all of the black victimhood bullshit. They'll never let it go.

They'll continue to live in the past - while, at the same time blaming whites for "holding them back." In truth, it's the fact that these dumbasses CHOOSE to wallow in self-pity that is holding them back. As long as they believe they're the world's biggest losers, they'll continue to be pathetic losers.

I also want to make clear that I'm the person who began calling my Iggie List, my Black Sambo List. To tell you the truth I don't remember a thing about the black Sambo story.

The reason I use that name is simple. I've tried to "talk" to our black posters, and things usually go alright for a short time. Then the flood of whining and accusations will begin to fill their posts. And, I just don't have the patience to listen to losers blame everyone in the world for their failures. Then there are the inevitable insults that follow. It's all so fucking predictable and disgusting. And, THAT is how my Sambo List was born.

You mentioned NewsVine, or whatever her name is, and said you don't know her race.

I think she said she's black - in one of her old posts.

She has learned to write long-assed posts. They're convoluted and wordy as Hell. Enough so that her black compadres probably assume that she's a smart person.

But, read more carefully and it's immediately clear that her posts are no different than those by IM2, for instance. I quickly found her to be boring. So off to my Sambo List she went.

Maybe I should create a "Wild-Eyed Honky List" for the white crazies. And to sort of balance things out. Lol...

As for your topic, I'd say blacks in America are in the best position of any blacks in the world. They can lift themselves out of poverty. They can dream huge dreams - and make them come true. BUT no one can do it for them. It's time to throw away the excuses, roll up their sleeves, and do the work required. Just as everyone else must do to succeed.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 19, 2022)

gipper said:


> Of course it’s always whitey’s fault. Your old tune is worn out here.


Like I give a fuck what you think. The truth is never worn out.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 19, 2022)

monkrules said:


> Hey...I've stayed out of this thread because most of the replies from bleeding hearted, self-hating whites, and from all the black whiners we know so well, are predictable and stale. They're obsessed with all of the black victimhood bullshit. They'll never let it go.
> 
> They'll continue to live in the past - while, at the same time blaming whites for "holding them back." In truth, it's the fact that these dumbasses CHOOSE to wallow in self-pity that is holding them back. As long as they believe they're the world's biggest losers, they'll continue to be pathetic losers.
> 
> ...


More racist bullshit.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yes. That‘s what it takes, in the vast majority of cases.
> 
> 
> Oh right…..insults and derision. You’re the one calling me a racist for  pointing out the obvious cause of poverty, regardless of color.
> ...


NO, that's not how most people did it.  People who manage to elevate their lives USUALLY have help.  They have parents who allow them to live at home rent free while in school so that their schooling is the only thing they have to concentrate on.  As opposed to kids who have to drop out of school in order to work so that they can contribute to the household so that they all were able to keep a roof over their head.  Or their parents can afford to pay their expenses & tuition while they're i school or at least help with them, taking up the slack what the scholarship, grants and loans don't cover.

When I graduated high school I was SICK TO DEATH of school and had plans to work instead of going off to college.  All it took was about a year of low paying jobs (because I wasn't qualified to do anything) for me to understand what my parents had always told me.  Get good grades so that you can get accepted in a good college.  Do well, again get good grades, graduate and come out with the qualifications needed to get a good job.

Of  course the road was not as smooth as it was presented.  As long as I was applying for secretarial work, which I did a lot of while working my way through college, I could always find work.  Once I had my degree and was applying for jobs in information technology, the excuses were endless.  There were plenty of people who didn't want me working in that field and took measures to make sure I was unable to have the stability needed to really shine.  But I managed to make my way.

Black girls in the last 10 years or so are just starting to be welcomed into the STEM fields, especially as software developers because they now have mentors showing them the way to reach the top of their game and providing a support system for them, something I never had.

Lastly, I didn't call you a racist because of your bogus claim that the obvious cause of poverty is the same for both blacks and whites, yet for some reason you're obsessed with black people and your desire to lecture us on what we should be doing, while your own race has many more people living in poverty than we do but I've yet to see you pull out your soapbox to lecture any of them.

I called you a racist because you are a racist.  People who aren't racist don't refer to black people as "Sambos".

I always thought you all were proud to be racist, the only place you have to fear being called one is as a defendant in court, or by the HR department, but U.S. Message Board is nether of those things.

So let your racist flag fly high, salute it and be proud.  But don't be surprised if suddenly you find there are repercussions for your hubris and ignorance. 

Or you could actually try to learn something.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 19, 2022)

*ALL RISE!*

Tonight's lesson:

*Racism is the reason for black poverty.*

In 1959 the poverty rate for all American families was 20.8 percent. For white families, it was 16.5 percent. For black families, 54.9 percent. During the time people declare that black families were “intact,” black family poverty was 3.33 times that of white ones. In 1966, the American poverty rate was 13.1 percent. For white families, the poverty rate was 9.7 percent, and for black families, 40.9 percent. In 1966, black family poverty was 4.2 times that of white families. In 1974 the poverty rate for all American families was 9.9 percent. Poverty for Black families was 29.3 percent. For Whites 7.3 percent. Black family poverty was four times that of whites ten years after Civil Rights was passed. In 1984, the poverty rate for all American families was 13.1 percent. For Black families, it was 33.3 percent, Whites 10.1 percent. Black family poverty was 3.29 times that of whites 20 years after Civil Rights was signed into law.

In 2004 the poverty rate for all American families was 11 percent. For white families, it was 9 percent. Black families, 23.8 percent. We are now 40 years past Johnson's signing of the Civil Rights Act. These numbers are well within our lifetimes. In 2004 black family poverty was 2.64 times that of a white family. In 2014, the American poverty rate was 12.7 percent. For white families, the poverty rate was 10.7 percent, and for black families, 24.6 percent. 50 years had passed since the Civil Rights Act, and black families still had at least double the white family poverty rate. In 2014 black family poverty was 2.3 times that of white families. In 2020 the poverty rate for all American families was 9.5 percent. Poverty for black families was 17.4 percent, white families 8.2 percent.  Despite increases in educational attainment and breakthroughs at every level of American society, in 2020, black family poverty remained two times that of white families. No matter how it is measured, poverty for whites is lower than the national average, and black poverty is consistently double the national average. Since 1959 no matter how low or high poverty has been, blacks have continued living at double the white and overall American poverty rate. Increased high school and college graduation rates have not changed this discrepancy.

At no time from 1959 through 2020 have whites and blacks come close to having equal income. It has not mattered whether America was practicing segregation. It has not mattered that blacks have become better educated. It has not mattered if black households were traditional two parent, two cars, a dog, two children having, good church-going members of American society. We have had two terms of a black president, and still, the median income for blacks has been less than whites. Most certainly, if a black man can manage a nation, he can run a corporation. If a black woman can run the second-largest Department of Justice in America and serve as Vice President, she can manage your local Wal-Mart. Sixty-eight years ago, Brown v. Topeka ended segregation in schools. Fifty-eight years ago, Civil Rights for everyone became law. This situation is not about the failure of “black culture” or so-called liberal handout policies. The root cause of the problems blacks face today is continuing white racism.

U.S. Census Bureau, Current Population Survey, 1960 to 2021 Annual Social and Economic Supplements (CPS ASEC). _Table 2. Poverty Status of People by Family Relationship, Race, and Hispanic Origin: 1959 to 2020_, 404: Page Not Found


----------



## IM2 (Apr 19, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> NO, that's not how most people did it.  People who manage to elevate their lives USUALLY have help.  They have parents who allow them to live at home rent free while in school so that their schooling is the only thing they have to concentrate on.  As opposed to kids who have to drop out of school in order to work so that they can contribute to the household so that they all were able to keep a roof over their head.  Or their parents can afford to pay their expenses & tuition while they're i school or at least help with them, taking up the slack what the scholarship, grants and loans don't cover.
> 
> When I graduated high school I was SICK TO DEATH of school and had plans to work instead of going off to college.  All it took was about a year of low paying jobs (because I wasn't qualified to do anything) for me to understand what my parents had always told me.  Get good grades so that you can get accepted in a good school.  Do well, graduate and come out and get a good job.
> 
> ...


*TEACH!*


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 19, 2022)

monkrules said:


> Hey...I've stayed out of this thread because most of the replies from bleeding hearted, self-hating whites, and from all the black whiners we know so well, are predictable and stale. They're obsessed with all of the black victimhood bullshit. They'll never let it go.
> 
> They'll continue to live in the past - while, at the same time blaming whites for "holding them back." In truth, it's the fact that these dumbasses CHOOSE to wallow in self-pity that is holding them back. As long as they believe they're the world's biggest losers, they'll continue to be pathetic losers.
> 
> ...


This comes from being well read.  I'm still learning APA writing though.

It figures that my FACT filled posts annoy and bore you and the other racists on this site.  What's that saying?  

Great minds discuss ideas;
Average minds discuss events;​Small minds discuss people​- Eleanor Roosevelt​​A gutsy lady.  She took a flight with a Tuskegee Airman back when everyone was still saying that black men were incapable of flying such a complex machine.  After they took the First Lady of the United States on a flight, the rest of the country had to at least try to get right.

So think back about all the crap that you and Lisa and the others have posted.  How many historical facts, or events that shaped policy in America, including policy on race relations have you all posted with corroborating documentation or links?

It must absolutely suck to have nothing going for oneself other than having had the good fortune of being born into the white race.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 19, 2022)

DGS49 said:


> Forget race.  People who have babies outside of marriage virtually guarantee economic failure for their offspring. People who make horrible life choices end up poor.  People who shun  our free public education fail.  People who engage in petty criminality go nowhere in life.  People who abuse alcohol and other controlled substances cause their own failure.
> 
> While racism has not been, and will never be, eradicated the instances where any Black people in the U.S. are significantly harmed by racism are extremely rare.  Most bigots are powerless buffoons, and for every opportunity that is extinguished because of a racist act, there are three or four other opportunities right around the corner, for those who choose to seek them out.
> 
> ...



White women benefit most from AA. You really don't know wtf you're talking about.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 19, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> This comes from being well read.  I'm still learning APA writing though.
> 
> It figures that my FACT filled posts annoy and bore you and the other racists on this site.  What's that saying?
> 
> ...


----------



## IM2 (Apr 19, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Actually, there is no other reason.  It still goes on today.



Actually, what you say is not the reason.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2022)

IM2 said:


> *ALL RISE!*
> 
> Tonight's lesson:
> 
> ...



So where does this racism exist? 

Growing up in the 70's, black kids went to the same school I did.
Blacks had the ability to graduate like I did.
Blacks had the ability, and even laws written in their favor for employment.
Blacks had the ability to attend college.
Blacks had the ability to learn a trade.

So where is this racism at? 

Next time you're in a library, stop in and ask the librarian where they keep the books written by successful excuse makers.  She'll probably look at you oddly and tell you there are no books like that.  Why?  Because all excuse makers are failures.  That's the real problem with the black community.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> You know, unless you have personally slept with her, which certainly wouldn't have helped her alleged social climbing, then you don't KNOW anything about her, you only have rumors and your impulse to denigrate a female who has exceeded your life accomplishments, in spades, no pun intended.
> 
> If you wouldn't want your mom called a whore (unless she actually is one) then why would you think it's okay to call someone else, who hasn't done a thing to cause you harm, those kind of demeaning and derogatory names?
> 
> Don't you have any women in your life who you feel don't deserve to be talked to or about in that manner?  If you do, then why do you think they are more special than Kamala?  And if you don't, well I guess that would explain a lot.



When you decide to get into politics, especially on the federal level, you must expect to be called names.  If you didn't, you're in the wrong business.  

Unless she has a membership here, it's not an insult to her because she has no idea I even exist yet alone what I say about her.  But I don't recall you lashing out when people attacked Trump or Bush's wife multiple times.  Hey......it's all part of politics in this country.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Actually, what you say is not the reason.



Of course it is.  Living in a black community myself, I can't stand when there is a black person in the lottery line in front of me.  Blacks play hundreds of dollars in numbers, then go out to their 10 year old or older car.  I remember what my father told me when I was a teen.  He said "Son, making money is easy.  An idiot can make money, but money is hard to keep!" 

You can get a decent paying job, but if you insist on having the newest iPhone, the newest car you can afford, three video game systems and expensive games when you could have used that money for investments or better things, you're still a loser with your decent paying job.  That goes for people of any race. Let me give you an example from the Center of Disease Control:

_In 2019, the birth rates for Hispanic teens (25.3) and non-Hispanic Black teens (25.8) were more than two times higher than the rate for non-Hispanic White teens (11.4). The birth rate of American Indian/Alaska Native teens (29.2) was highest among all race/ethnicities.1   _






						About Teen Pregnancy | CDC
					

Teen pregnancy and childbearing bring substantial social and economic costs through immediate and long-term impacts on teen parents and their children.




					www.cdc.gov
				




The CDC also estimates that to raise a middle-class child today, the cost per child is $233,000.  That means if you have the standard two-child family, you better be ready to make and spend a half-million dollars within the next 20 years or so.  That being said, the white population here and in Europe are shrinking.  The replacement rate for children is 2.5 per family.  Whites are using their money for financial security more than on families.  The younger you have children, the more likely you are to live in poverty, especially if you are unmarried.

But what about jobs?  Well, there is a disparity between races too.  Better paying jobs often discriminate; not by race, but by criminal records.  Many ex-cons find themselves in lower paying jobs the rest of their lives.  That being said, here is what I found:

_The researchers found that the percentage of black men with a felony conviction increased from 13% in 1980 to 33% in 2010 (compared to 5% and 13% for all adult men during these periods, respectively). They also estimate that the percentage of black men who had experienced imprisonment increased from 6% in 1980 to 15% in 2010 (compared to 2% and 6% for all adult men during these periods, respectively). These estimates are “the first attempt to provide state-level demographic information about people with felony convictions in the United States, a population defined by incomplete citizenship and the temporary or permanent suspension of many rights and privileges.”_









						The Sentencing Project Resource Library - Search Research
					

Search important resources published by The Sentencing Project, including research publications, advocacy briefs, webinars, and more.




					www.sentencingproject.org
				




So let's add this up: teen pregnancy among black girls is over twice as high as white girls.  33% of black men have a felony conviction on their record.  This has nothing to do with race, this has to do with irresponsibility and bad decision making.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So where does this racism exist?
> 
> Growing up in the 70's, black kids went to the same school I did.
> Blacks had the ability to graduate like I did.
> ...


There are no laws in employment written to favor blacks. I went to school in the 70's and had teachers who had started teaching during jim crow. That's where some of the racism was. I went to college and faced professors who started teaching during jim crow. That's where the racism is. I applied for work in places where owners or managers started working during jim crow. I went to school with people like you, racists who wonder where the racism is even as they look at it in the mirror. We don't make excuses in the black community, we point out the facts. Your ass is a racist, yet you ask where's the racism at? Cognitive dissonance .


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Of course it is.  Living in a black community myself, I can't stand when there is a black person in the lottery line in front of me.  Blacks play hundreds of dollars in numbers, then go out to their 10 year old or older car.  I remember what my father told me when I was a teen.  He said "Son, making money is easy.  An idiot can make money, but money is hard to keep!"
> 
> You can get a decent paying job, but if you insist on having the newest iPhone, the newest car you can afford, three video game systems and expensive games when you could have used that money for investments or better things, you're still a loser with your decent paying job.  That goes for people of any race. Let me give you an example from the Center of Disease Control:
> 
> ...


Ray, 

Who the hell do you think you're talking to? I'm black and I am telling you what you say isn't so. I say it isn't so because it IS NOT SO. You're lying about lottery tickets and new phones.

White Convicts As Likely to Be Hired As Blacks Without Criminal Records​*Anyone claiming that racism is no longer alive and well in the United States, in addition to considering the race-driven circumstances surrounding the Jena 6, or statistics demonstrating that prosecutors are far more likely to seek the death penalty when the victim is white than when the victim is black (particularly if the defendant is black), or studies demonstrating that blacks receive harsher sentences than whites for equivalent drug crimes, or the fact that even though more whites per capita smoke marihuana than blacks, blacks are arrested and prosecuted at a far higher rate, should read a recent study by Princeton University examining employment discrimination titled “Discrimination in Low Wage Labor Markets.”

In the largest and most comprehensive project of its kind to date, 13 young male applicants, presenting the same qualifications and experience, split into teams and went on nearly 3,500 entry-level job interviews with private companies in supposedly left-leaning, "progressive", multicultural New York City, jobs ranging from restaurants to manufacturing to financial services. After recording which applicants were invited back for interviews or were offered jobs, two sociology professors looked at the hiring practices of 1,500 prospective private employers, focusing specifically on discrimination against young male minorities and ex-offenders.

Some of the study's findings are depressingly familiar. For instance, young white high school graduates were twice as likely to receive positive responses from New York employers as equally qualified black job seekers. It also reaffirmed not only that former prisoners are at a distinct disadvantage in the job market, but also that, again, black ex-prisoners are in a much worse position: positive responses from employers towards white applicants with a criminal record dipped 35 percent, while for black applicants similarly situated it plummeted 57 percent.

However, the study revealed that our society's racism extends even deeper: black applicants with no criminal record were no more likely to get a job than white applicants with criminal records just released from prison! In other words, while whites with criminal records received low rates of positive responses, such response rates were equally low for blacks without a criminal background. Further exposing the overt racism at play was the study's finding that minority employers were more accepting of minority applicants and job applicants with prison records.

So, even when a white employer knows that the white applicant she is interviewing is a convict and the black applicant has never been in trouble with the law, she is as likely to hire the white applicant as the black applicant.*





__





						White Convicts As Likely to Be Hired As Blacks Without Criminal Records | DMI Blog
					





					www.dmiblog.com
				




So you are right, these things result from irresponsibility and bad decision making.. The irresponsibility and bad decision making of whites to be racist.


----------



## Moonglow (Apr 20, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yup. Ever read The Millionaire Next Door? Most were raised very modestly, and 93% received no inheritance from their parents.
> 
> And so true what you say about the lottery. The line is almost always poor blacks who can least afford it, and it takes forever. I wish they had a separate “lottery ticket” line.


Do you always expose yourself as the racist you are in public?


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So where does this racism exist?
> 
> Growing up in the 70's, black kids went to the same school I did.
> Blacks had the ability to graduate like I did.
> ...



Actually, right in front of you. 

Let's look at the schools. Nope, black kids did not have the ability to do to the same schools white people did.  When the schools were desegregated, white people did one of two things.  1) They moved out to lily-white suburbs or 2) They put their kids in Parochial or Private Schools.  

As stated, laws for affirmative action don't make up for the fact most hiring managers are white and favor their own, which is why the real winners with AA have been white women. 

As for the Trades, do you know how hard it actually is to get into the unions?  My brother is a sheet metal worker, like my dad was, and even though my dad had been in a union, he had to wait until his mid-20s to get an apprenticeship. 




Ray From Cleveland said:


> Next time you're in a library, stop in and ask the librarian where they keep the books written by successful excuse makers. She'll probably look at you oddly and tell you there are no books like that. Why? Because all excuse makers are failures. That's the real problem with the black community.



Yet Ray always has an excuse about why he's on disability and living in a slum.  



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Of course it is. Living in a black community myself, I can't stand when there is a black person in the lottery line in front of me. Blacks play hundreds of dollars in numbers, then go out to their 10 year old or older car. I remember what my father told me when I was a teen. He said "Son, making money is easy. An idiot can make money, but money is hard to keep!"



Again - Ray lives in a slum, collects disability, and spends all his money on surveillance equipment. 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> You can get a decent paying job, but if you insist on having the newest iPhone, the newest car you can afford, three video game systems and expensive games when you could have used that money for investments or better things, you're still a loser with your decent paying job. That goes for people of any race. Let me give you an example from the Center of Disease Control:



Again, Ray lives in a slum... collects disability... and wastes his money on electronic equipment to spy on his neighbors.


----------



## gipper (Apr 20, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Like I give a fuck what you think. The truth is never worn out.


It’s your truth and it’s bull shit.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> You know, unless you have personally slept with her, which certainly wouldn't have helped her alleged social climbing, then you don't KNOW anything about her, you only have rumors and your impulse to denigrate a female who has exceeded your life accomplishments, in spades, no pun intended.
> 
> If you wouldn't want your mom called a whore (unless she actually is one) then why would you think it's okay to call someone else, who hasn't done a thing to cause you harm, those kind of demeaning and derogatory names?
> 
> Don't you have any women in your life who you feel don't deserve to be talked to or about in that manner?  If you do, then why do you think they are more special than Kamala?  And if you don't, well I guess that would explain a lot.


If you object to a woman being called a whore, then you should object to a woman being called a racist who merely pointed out that the blacks who remain mired in poverty (a minority….most are middle class) are so for the same reasons as are poor whites - having babies thet can’t afford while unmarried and dropping out of school - and not due to racism.

IOW, if you call people nasty names, then so can Ray,

You libs are such hypocrites.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

Moonglow said:


> Do you always expose yourself as the racist you are in public?


Do you always enjoy calling people racists when they point out the truth? The fact is that lower income people spend more on lottery tickets than the middle class, and the average income of blacks is lower than whites. 









						Who buys lottery tickets? Those who can least afford them
					

Low-income households spend nearly four times more playing the lottery than those earning $75,000 or more




					www.cbsnews.com


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

monkrules said:


> Hey...I've stayed out of this thread because most of the replies from bleeding hearted, self-hating whites, and from all the black whiners we know so well, are predictable and stale. They're obsessed with all of the black victimhood bullshit. They'll never let it go.
> 
> They'll continue to live in the past - while, at the same time blaming whites for "holding them back." In truth, it's the fact that these dumbasses CHOOSE to wallow in self-pity that is holding them back. As long as they believe they're the world's biggest losers, they'll continue to be pathetic losers.
> 
> ...


Thank you.

For some reason, blacks like Vine and their white enablers simply refuse to acknowledge the obvious truth - that 95% of blacks in poverty can lift themselves out of poverty by the two simple, common-sense steps outlined in my OP: don’t have OOW babies when you’re still a teen and stay in school. And that it is the failure to do so that has the black underclass in that position, and NOT racism. I’ve pointed out that whites who do the same are also poor.

That brings out the FURY of leftists, screeching RAAAAACIST!!, because they simply refuse to acknowledge just how much of life’s outcomes are due to personal choice, now that racist laws have been abolished for two generations.

That is also why the leftists resent the Jews, and come up with all sorts of ridiculous justification for how a persecuted, expelled, mass murdered little minority of people end up being among the top - including a disproportionate number of Nobel prizes.

The most common excuse I’ve heard is that Jews didn’t experience the horrors of antisemitism in THIS country, as if listening to the radio about Hitler killing your grandparents, and aunts, and uncles, and cousins, is not experiencing it. My parents’ circle of friends were primarily Jews whose own parents had escaped Jewish persecution in Europe, arrived here penniless and uneducated, and the entire next generation were all colelge graduates!

Jews also, in my lifetime, were blocked from country clubs, had their property vandalized with the word ”Jew” scratched or spray painted, called K word, and told by housing developers as late as the 70s they they were discouraging Jews from moving into the neighborhood. I experienced all of these directly. And just listening to some of the antisemitic venom spewed by posters, mostly liberals, on this forum alone! Jews, in fact, are more likely to be a victim of a hate crime than blacks!

And yet, Jews rose from poverty to the middle class IN A SINGLE GENERATION. They did it by making the right choices, and particularly by valuing and pursuing a college education.

There is absolutely nothing holding back the blacks in poverty from moving to the modest working class, at a minimum, by 1) no babies before they can afford them, and 2) getting a high school degree, at a minimum. if they are more ambitious than that and want a middle class lifestyle, they can get an A.A. or a vocational certificate to learn a trade, which will be paid for by American taxpayers. More than that, they can take out loans and get a college degree, if they choose.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Ray,
> 
> Who the hell do you think you're talking to? I'm black and I am telling you what you say isn't so. I say it isn't so because it IS NOT SO. You're lying about lottery tickets and new phones.



Not at all.  It happens all the time.  In any case my point (that obviously flew over your head) is that in many cases, it's actions of black people that keep them back, not discrimination or racism.  You posted some phony story about discrepancies between the success of whites and blacks as a whole.  I posted facts with links as to why.  Your article just came to some unproven conclusion where as mine are about statistics. 

Like the lottery tickets, I see it all the time here.  Kids with kids.  Bottom line is when 25% of your girls are getting impregnated and 33% of your guys have felonies, it's not a wonder why they are being held back in society, but whites are not responsible for that, blacks do this to themselves.  Now you post another phony story about employment discrimination.  We've had laws against that the last couple of generations.  Again, that study isn't an apples to apples comparison. 









						What's Wrong With A Study That Used 'Black Names' On Fake Resumes
					

As we see a rise in attempts to erase racial discrimination, it's important to look critically behind the curtain at the proof that claims it exists.




					thefederalist.com
				




Any proven accusation of racism by employers carries a very heavy penalty.  Besides the legality of it, no company wants to be accused yet alone convicted of racial discrimination.  It's just not worth the risk.  But just to humor you, let's say that this claim is true.  Would you think that employers don't hire people of color because of their skin tone, or how they are known to do the job?  It's like that story I told about last summer.  In case you missed it, I'll tell you about it if you really want to read it.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> NO, that's not how most people did it.  People who manage to elevate their lives USUALLY have help.  They have parents who allow them to live at home rent free while in school so that their schooling is the only thing they have to concentrate on.  As opposed to kids who have to drop out of school in order to work so that they can contribute to the household so that they all were able to keep a roof over their head.  Or their parents can afford to pay their expenses & tuition while they're i school or at least help with them, taking up the slack what the scholarship, grants and loans don't cover.
> 
> When I graduated high school I was SICK TO DEATH of school and had plans to work instead of going off to college.  All it took was about a year of low paying jobs (because I wasn't qualified to do anything) for me to understand what my parents had always told me.  Get good grades so that you can get accepted in a good college.  Do well, again get good grades, graduate and come out with the qualifications needed to get a good job.
> 
> ...


i didn’t read beyond your first paragraph because it just shows more denial. No, people who move beyond poverty did so by not having OOW babies and graduating from high school. One doesn’t need “help” for that.

You are hurting your own people by denying the poor ones among them the encouragement and direction to move out of poverty by doing the two things above, and instead choosing to blame imaginary, non-existent racists.


----------



## DBA (Apr 20, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> So racist bitch thinks blacks are 'unqualified". Gee, why is this a surprise. Of, course, you put white people in charge of the selection process, they will ALWAYS find that white people are qualified. Maybe toss an Asian or two in there because Asians are almost in that' White enough" category.
> 
> Do I really need to retell the story of the White Boss who couldn't make time to meet with two women of color leaving his company, but man, he made time for the pretty white intern. And that guy wasn't nearly as racist as Karen558. Or Welfare Ray. Or you



She didn’t say blacks were unqualified. She said some blacks are unqualified, which is rather obvious.  Some whites and some Asians are also unqualified. The point is, take race and gender completely out of the equation and let GPA’s, test scores, curriculum, etc. be the only critiria.  The thing is, YOU don‘t want that because YOU know that may lead to an outcome which YOU don’t like.  

Tell me why you think I am a racist? What have I said that is racist? It seems that in your bizarre world, it is racist  *NOT* to consider race with regards to hiring or college admissions.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2022)

IM2 said:


> There are no laws in employment written to favor blacks. I went to school in the 70's and had teachers who had started teaching during jim crow. That's where some of the racism was. I went to college and faced professors who started teaching during jim crow. That's where the racism is. I applied for work in places where owners or managers started working during jim crow. I went to school with people like you, racists who wonder where the racism is even as they look at it in the mirror. We don't make excuses in the black community, we point out the facts. Your ass is a racist, yet you ask where's the racism at? Cognitive dissonance .



Hey, and all that is fine if you're still living in the past before you were born.  But you are born the day you take your first breath.  If you and I are around the same age, then you know for a fact that we had laws against the practice of discrimination before we became adults and adventured out into this free country of ours.  What might have happened to "some" of our parents or grandparents have nothing to do with our lives.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Hey, and all that is fine if you're still living in the past before you were born.  But you are born the day you take your first breath.  If you and I are around the same age, then you know for a fact that we had laws against the practice of discrimination before we became adults and adventured out into this free country of ours.  What might have happened to "some" of our parents or grandparents have nothing to do with our lives.


It most certainly does if you grew up in a home with white generational wealth made during years blacks were discriminated against 


Like donnie trump


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

DBA said:


> She didn’t say blacks were unqualified. She said some blacks are unqualified, which is rather obvious.  Some whites and some Asians are also unqualified. The point is, take race and gender completely out of the equation and let GPA’s, test scores, curriculum, etc. be the only critiria.  The thing is, YOU don‘t want that because YOU know that may lead to an outcome which YOU don’t like.
> 
> Tell me why you think I am a racist? What have I said that is racist? It seems that in your bizarre world, it is racist  *NOT* to consider race with regards to hiring or college admissions.


Not reading that bigot’s posts, but I can figure out what he said by your response.

I never said blacks are unqualified. I said that they are getting admitted with scores and grades LOWER than whites who are being rejected. And the discrepancy is huge. Blacks with a 3.2 get admitted to prestigious. while whites with a 3.8 get rejected.

It’s amazing, isn’t it? The leftists consider someone racist if they oppose racist policies, when every reasonable person knows that adjusting admissions standards to get in more people of one specific race (blacks) and keep out more people of other races (whites and Asians) is racist. It is time to abolish the blatant racism in college and grad school admissions, and I think it will be done by the SCOTUS this term.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> It most certainly does if you grew up in a home with white generational wealth made during years blacks were discriminated against
> 
> 
> Like donnie trump



As I told you troll, that's a very small percentage of whites.  My parents (like most white parents) grew up poor.  Nobody left them with anything and if we get anything from our parents after they're gone, it won't be that much.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Hey, and all that is fine if you're still living in the past before you were born.  But you are born the day you take your first breath.  If you and I are around the same age, then you know for a fact that we had laws against the practice of discrimination before we became adults and adventured out into this free country of ours.  What might have happened to "some" of our parents or grandparents have nothing to do with our lives.


But liberals are trying to keep alive the false notion that racism still exists. I got a mailing from my leftist congressman before the election, claiming that in the prior year he was instrumental in removing some racist laws in our state. I wrote him asking “what racist laws did we have?”, and he never answered.

The truth is, there are no racist laws in our state. It’s all a lie. Blacks who are poor today are so because of their OWN life choices, and not racism.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> As I told you troll, that's a very small percentage of whites.  My parents (like most white parents) grew up poor.  Nobody left them with anything and if we get anything from our parents after they're gone, it won't be that much.


Great lets see your evidence 


If you dont post any you admit concede the debate.


Watch this folks


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> But liberals are trying to keep alive the false notion that racism still exists. I got a mailing from my leftist congressman before the election, claiming that in the prior year he was instrumental in removing some racist laws in our state. I wrote him asking “what racist laws did we have?”, and he never answered.
> 
> The truth is, there are no racist laws in our state. It’s all a lie. Blacks who are poor today are so because of their OWN life choices, and not racism.


Yet racism exists


Duh


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> As I told you troll, that's a very small percentage of whites.  My parents (like most white parents) grew up poor.  Nobody left them with anything and if we get anything from our parents after they're gone, it won't be that much.


Yup. That’s another lie that leftists keep perpetrating: this idea of generational wealth. My parents grew up dirt poor too, and yet managed to graduate from college, as did my aunt and uncle.

The vast majority of millionaires in this country are first-generation, self-made. Only 7% inherited anything of note.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yup. That’s another lie that leftists keep perpetrating: this idea of generational wealth. My parents grew up dirt poor too, and yet managed to graduate from college, as did my aunt and uncle.
> 
> The vast majority of millionaires in this country are first-generation, self-made. Only 7% inherited anything of note.


Lots of talk.....no evidence 


Dismissed


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Great lets see your evidence
> 
> 
> If you dont post any you admit concede the debate.
> ...



Yeah, watch: 

While it’s popular and comforting to believe most millionaires simply inherited their millions, the numbers uniformly show that this notion is untrue.

For instance, the Cato Institute has consistently proven the *vast majority of millionaires earned their wealth rather than inherited it*. The notion that “most millionaires inherit their wealth” is a myth, Cato says.

“A survey by US Trust found that 70% of wealthy Americans grew up in middle‐class or lower‐income households. Even among those with assets in excess of $5 million, only a third grew up wealthy,” wrote Cato.

The article also points out that the role of inheritance has diminished over the last generation.

Fewer wealthy people than ever on the Forbes 400 list grew up in rich households, nor did most inherit their wealth from their families. Data suggests that wages, rather than inheritance, is the predominant factor in building wealth for the majority of wealthy Americans.









						Think Most Millionaires Inherited Their Wealth? Think Again - SteveAdcock.us
					

A survey from Ramsey Solutions found that almost 3/4ths of Millennials believe that most millionaires inherited their wealth. If true, this would mean that most millionaires today got rich based...




					steveadcock.us


----------



## DBA (Apr 20, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> White people have not had all of the same challenges in life that black people have, so if many of them are not doing better, why not?



Plenty of white people make bad decisions. Plenty of white people have had just has tough of challenges in life as black people.



NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Tell me please that you aren't really not aware of all of the laws that were passed to prevent black people from having the same rights as white people, after slavery was abolished and replaced with Jim Crow and the black codes?



These old laws in no way affect the current generation of African Americans.



NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> The white racists on this board are the losers, in every way.



I agree, as are the black racists on this board.



JoeB131 said:


> Awesome, let's pass a living wage and create workfare where every American is ENTITLED to a job. if private industry won't hire them, the government can find work for them to do.



You have the reasoning ability of a child.



NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Why are the people of Appalachia living in generational poverty? Why aren't you lecturing them



That brings up a good point.  Those folks make bad decisions, but admittedly are starting out a a lower economic point than many and in fact, may have it harder than many black people in a similar economic situations because they do not qualify for AA.  Instead of race and gender based, maybe AA should be economic based. That make more sense than the current system.  If you believe poverty is the underlying cause of the problems.  I am not a fan of AA in general, but I could be more on board if it was not blatantly racist and sexist.



IM2 said:


> No, it's racism. Whites like you need to shut up about things you know nothing about.



Then don’t ever use the word “white privilege” again. If you aren’t white, you don’t have a clue.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yeah, watch:
> 
> While it’s popular and comforting to believe most millionaires simply inherited their millions, the numbers uniformly show that this notion is untrue.
> 
> ...


So ignore all middle class wealth because they are not millionaires?????


Are you kidding????


Did you grow up in the projects on welfare?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> But liberals are trying to keep alive the false notion that racism still exists. I got a mailing from my leftist congressman before the election, claiming that in the prior year he was instrumental in removing some racist laws in our state. I wrote him asking “what racist laws did we have?”, and he never answered.
> 
> The truth is, there are no racist laws in our state. It’s all a lie. Blacks who are poor today are so because of their OWN life choices, and not racism.



Before I retired I noticed a trend with our customers.  Some of them replaced their nearly all white staff with all black.  The reason?  Blacks will work for less money.  In essence, blacks were undercutting whites in wage competition.  Blacks can afford to make less because the cost of living where they reside is lower.  They get cheaper rent, have lower cost housing, they can afford to make less than whites.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Before I retired I noticed a trend with our customers.  Some of them replaced their nearly all white staff with all black.  The reason?  Blacks will work for less money.  In essence, blacks were undercutting whites in wage competition.  Blacks can afford to make less because the cost of living where they reside is lower.  They get cheaper rent, have lower cost housing, they can afford to make less than whites.


And they are used to abuse due to years of discrimination so they put up with more garbage.  Lol


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> So ignore all middle class wealth because they are not millionaires?????
> 
> 
> Are you kidding????
> ...



My father and his five siblings did.  They didn't even have electricity or indoor plumbing.  When they had to use the bathroom, it was outside in the backyard.  And up north in the winter, if you had to use the toilet, you really had to go.  Their outhouse didn't even have a roof on it, so when you had to go, you hoped it was not during a snow storm.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> My father and his five siblings did.  They didn't even have electricity or indoor plumbing.  When they had to use the bathroom, it was outside in the backyard.  And up north in the winter, if you had to use the toilet, you really had to go.  Their outhouse didn't even have a roof on it, so when you had to go, you hoped it was not during a snow storm.


Thank for that in depth peer reviewed scientific study involving thousands of subjects on the level of racial wealth disparity in this country.  Lol


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

DBA said:


> Plenty of white people make bad decisions. Plenty of white people have had just has tough of challenges in life as black people.



Absolutely. Plenty of poor whites whose parents struggle to put food on the table and make rent. But they do not have the advantages of affirmative action provided to blacks, so they have to get admitted to educational programs based on merit. 



DBA said:


> These old laws in no way affect the current generation of African Americans.


Yup. They keep going back to “well, two generations ago, there were Jim Crow laws.” Old news. Now blacks have favoritism in many arenas.


DBA said:


> That brings up a good point.  Those folks make bad decisions, but admittedly are starting out a a lower economic point than many and in fact, may have it harder than many black people in a similar economic situations because they do not qualify for AA.  Instead of race and gender based, maybe AA should be economic based. That make more sense than the current system.  If you believe poverty is the underlying cause of the problems.  I am not a fan of AA in general, but I could be more on board if it was not blatantly racist and sexist.


Yes, I’ve made the same point: AA should be SES-based, and a combination of both economic need AND superior academic achievement. I’d be in favor of an AA program that admits the top 5% of each high school class to the State U, automatically, and with full tuition, whose family also falls into the lower-middle class or below. 

But the racists on the left scream “NO” to such a proposal, even though it would still help blacks. They insist on an AA policy that helps ONLY blacks, and at the expense of whites. Anyone who continues to object to the current race-based policy is, ironically, attempted to be silenced by screeching “raaaaaaaxist”!


DBA said:


> Then don’t ever use the word “white privilege” again. If you aren’t white, you don’t have a clue.


Yup. Dont you just love it when blacks tell whites to shut up about blacks since they no nothing, and then proceed to (wrongly) complain about the privilege whites have?


----------



## Moonglow (Apr 20, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Do you always enjoy calling people racists when they point out the truth? The fact is that lower income people spend more on lottery tickets than the middle class, and the average income of blacks is lower than whites.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why are there poor people at all would be a non racist question. You have yet to explain why anyone lives in poverty all you have done is degrade and dehumanize. Congrats. I have never needed affirmative action to exist and survive the complex maze of life, but those that people hate and don't have opportunities is because of people like you that do the hiring.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

Moonglow said:


> Why are there poor people at all would be a non racist question. You have yet to explain why anyone lives in poverty all you have done is degrade and dehumanize. Congrats. I have never needed affirmative action to exist and survive the complex maze of life, but those that people hate and don't have opportunities is because of people like you that do the hiring.


No. It’s perfectly acceptable - to non-liberals who don’t see racism everywhere - to start a thread outlining that blacks are poor due to their own bad choices and NOT racism, which is what people like you keep lying about.

Asking why poor people are poor and avoiding any discussion of race, avoids the issue that racism - for blacks - is being wrongly blamed, while of course people like you call white people white trash.

I specifically said in the OP that blacks and whites are poor for the same reasons.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> No. It’s perfectly acceptable - to non-liberals who don’t see racism everywhere - to start a thread outlining why blacks are poor due to their own bad choices and NOT racism, which is what people like you keep lying about.
> 
> Asking why poor people are poor and avoiding any discussion of race, avoids the issue that racism - for blacks - is being wrongly blamed, while of course people like you call white people white trash.
> 
> I specifically said in the OP that blacks and whites are poor for the same reasons.


Yet racism is a factor in poverty


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

Moonglow said:


> Why are there poor people at all would be a non racist question. You have yet to explain why anyone lives in poverty all you have done is degrade and dehumanize. Congrats. I have never needed affirmative action to exist and survive the complex maze of life, but those that people hate and don't have opportunities is because of people like you that do the hiring.


And you are also accusing me of not hiring blacks because I am racist when race was NEVER a factor at all in whom I hired. I went strictly on merit.

People like YOU are the racist ones who think race should be a factor in decisions. The irony of you leftists is that WRONGLY accuse people of being racists when it is YOU who are making judgments based in skin color.

Merit ONLY. It’s way past time for leftists to stop their racist ways.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> And you are also accusing me of not hiring blacks because I am racist when race was NEVER a factor at all in whom I hired. I went strictly in merit.
> 
> People like YOU are the racist ones who think race should be a factor in decisions.


You likely have what is called inherent bias


----------



## gipper (Apr 20, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> No. It’s perfectly acceptable - to non-liberals who don’t see racism everywhere - to start a thread outlining why blacks are poor due to their own bad choices and NOT racism, which is what people like you keep lying about.
> 
> Asking why poor people are poor and avoiding any discussion of race, avoids the issue that racism - for blacks - is being wrongly blamed, while of course people like you call white people white trash.
> 
> I specifically said in the OP that blacks and whites are poor for the same reasons.


As you well know and have experienced in this thread, a white person merely trying to discuss the problems in the black community is immediately labeled a racist. This tactic has been used for decades and has been effective in preventing any reasoned debate on this issue.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

gipper said:


> As you well know and have experienced in this thread, a white person merely trying to discuss the problems in the black community is immediately labeled a racist. This tactic has been used for decades and has been effective in preventing any reasoned debate on this issue.


Uh....nope


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

gipper said:


> As you well know and have experienced in this thread, a white person merely trying to discuss the problems in the black community is immediately labeled a racist. This tactic has been used for decades and has been effective in preventing any reasoned debate on this issue.


Thank you. It’s the silencing-demonizing tactic that Democrats have been using for at least 20 years. I posted an article the other day that pointed out how Democrats were yelling racist and name-calling to stop a debate in its tracks rather than engage in a civil discussion. It was written in 2001.

It‘s gotten even worse since then. I have new hope that Elon Musk will start a new trend of permitting conservative opinions to be expressed - free speech - and that normal people (that would exclude the name-calling leftists screeching racist) would be able to see the validity of the opposing opinion and make judgments for themselves.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Thank you. It’s the silencing-demonizing tactic that Democrats have been using for at least 20 years. I posted an article the other day that pointed out how Democrats were yelling racist and name-calling to stop a debate in its tracks rather than engage in a civil discussion. It was written in 2001.
> 
> It‘s gotten even worse since then. I have new hope that Elon Musk will start a new trend of permitting conservative opinions to be expressed - free speech - and that normal people (that would exclude the name-calling leftists screeching racist) would be able to see the validity of the opposing opinion and make judgments for themselves.


And yet racism exists


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 20, 2022)

Lisa558
*And yet, Jews rose from poverty to the middle class IN A SINGLE GENERATION. They did it by making the right choices, and particularly by valuing and pursuing a college education.*






This is simply all you do. Just the white supremacist tactic of repeating a lie and just keep on repeating and repeating it until it sticks. Jewish people have always had help till this very day


*Plus Black American soldiers helped to free your people when you were getting wiped out by Hitler and his boys




*












When people discuss WW2 and the holocaust in Europe. They leave out that Black American soldiers in the front lines in WW2 defeating the Nazis and liberating people from concentration cam[s












Yet this is the thanks we get ?

Last year A whole community of white Jewish people in Brooklyn had a meeting to share their fears about a new charter school in their area that will have predomenantly Black students.







Or Judy Mozes wife of the Israeli Interior Minister got on twitter to share a racist joke












Also some of the leaders of the American Nazi Party like Dan Burros and Frank Collin were Jewish.


----------



## Indeependent (Apr 20, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Lisa558
> *And yet, Jews rose from poverty to the middle class IN A SINGLE GENERATION. They did it by making the right choices, and particularly by valuing and pursuing a college education.*
> 
> View attachment 633412
> ...


When 99% of Blacks consider an education more important than a $500.00 pair of sneakers than you can complain.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

Indeependent said:


> When 99% of Blacks consider an education more important than a $500.00 pair of sneakers than you can complain.


And you notice how Paul, oozing hostility for Jews, claimed Jews always had help? Help? Like being rounded up to be systematically exterminated like vermin? Like being expelled from country after country, going back 1000 years? Like help by being told “no more Jews” by the Ivy League? Help like escaping Hitler and arriving at America’s shores, only to be effectively told by the population that they’d prefer to send Jews back to the concentration camps than let them into the county?

That aside, what type of help did the Jewish children of the 30s and 40s have in this country, with poor, impoverished immigrant parents? Somehow, they managed to get beyond poverty, and to an above-average level,  and without “help.”

Blacks today, and for the past two generations, have indeed had help by being jumped ahead of whites, with better grades and scores, for admission to higher Ed programs. THAT is help.

But Paul does what all the leftists due. They can’t face that people fail or succeed due primarily to their own life choices, and thus Paul - faced with the reality that impoverished Jews went from tenements to suburban homes in a single generation - has to claim they had “help.”


----------



## Indeependent (Apr 20, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> And you notice how Paul, oozing hostility for Jews, claimed Jews always had help? Help? Like being rounded up to be systematically exterminated like vermin? Like being expelled from country after country, going back 1000 years? Like help by being told “no more Jews” by the Ivy League? Help like escaping Hitler and arriving at America’s shores, only to be effectively told by the population that they’d prefer to send Jews back to the concentration camps than let them into the county?
> 
> That aside, what type of help did the Jewish children of the 30s and 40s have in this country, with poor, impoverished immigrant parents? Somehow, they managed to get beyond poverty, and to an above-average level,  and without “help.”
> 
> ...


Paul’s an idiot.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

Indeependent said:


> Paul’s an idiot.


He’s also a leftist, but then I’m being redundant.


----------



## gipper (Apr 20, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Thank you. It’s the silencing-demonizing tactic that Democrats have been using for at least 20 years. I posted an article the other day that pointed out how Democrats were yelling racist and name-calling to stop a debate in its tracks rather than engage in a civil discussion. It was written in 2001.
> 
> It‘s gotten even worse since then. I have new hope that Elon Musk will start a new trend of permitting conservative opinions to be expressed - free speech - and that normal people (that would exclude the name-calling leftists screeching racist) would be able to see the validity of the opposing opinion and make judgments for themselves.


It appears being white means you have no right to an opinion on the condition of the blacks in America.


----------



## Indeependent (Apr 20, 2022)

gipper said:


> It appears being white means you have no right to an opinion on the condition of the blacks in America.


Just because some of my taxes go toward their social welfare…


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

gipper said:


> It’s your truth and it’s bull shit.


There is no my truth and your truth. There is only THE TRUTH and the truth I speak is supported by 245 plus years of evidence, what you call truth is based on your belief.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

gipper said:


> It appears being white means you have no right to an opinion on the condition of the blacks in America.


You have a right to that opinion. And a black person who has actually faced what you don't has the right to tell you that your opinion is unqualified, factless and incorrect.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

Indeependent said:


> Just because some of my taxes go toward their social welfare…


Since the income tax was enacted blacks have paid taxes for things whites got that we were excluded from. And since we pay taxes today, what you pay doesn't mean shit.


----------



## gipper (Apr 20, 2022)

IM2 said:


> There is no my truth and your truth. There is only THE TRUTH and the truth I speak is supported by 245 plus years of evidence, what you call truth is based on your belief.


In your mind nothing has changed in 245 plus years.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> i didn’t read beyond your first paragraph because it just shows more denial. No, people who move beyond poverty did so by not having OOW babies and graduating from high school. One doesn’t need “help” for that.
> 
> You are hurting your own people by denying the poor ones among them the encouragement and direction to move out of poverty by doing the two things above, and instead choosing to blame imaginary, non-existent racists.


You didn't read past her first paragraph because you can't face the truth. You're a white woman. Everything you have is because of Affirmative action. Your racist ass needs to just be quiet because what you suggest is not the solution.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

gipper said:


> In your mind nothing has changed in 245 plus years.


A lot has changed


But racism still exists


----------



## ThomasSowellsFro (Apr 20, 2022)

A black man gets 50% less resume Responses than white. Blacks get redlined 50% of the time . 


Racism is a huge part of the pie chart.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 20, 2022)

DBA said:


> The entire race doesn’t make bad decisions. There are many successful African Americans in this country, thus proving the point that racism doesn’t disqualify them from success.  Are you saying that success African Americans just got lucky?


I would say that most African Americans are successful.  However, there is a very visible and vocal minority the refuses to walk the easily travelled road to success.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> I would say that most African Americans are successful.  However, there is a very visible and vocal minority the refuses to walk the easily travelled road to success.


And racism plays a part


----------



## ThomasSowellsFro (Apr 20, 2022)

Is white south African poverty due to black Racism or a failure to pull bootstraps up and voting for white identity parties?


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> What's done is done
> 
> 
> Racism exists


So what?  Racists come in all skin colors.  As long as the laws are equitable, people's private opinions are their own business.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

gipper said:


> It appears being white means you have no right to an opinion on the condition of the blacks in America.


…..while they can rail on about the “white privilege” that makes It harder for whites to get into a good educational program than blacks with lesser qualifications.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> So what?  Racists come in all skin colors.  As long as the laws are equitable, people's private opinions are their own business.


So you admit that racism is part of the problem


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> …..while they can rail on about the “white privilege” that makes It harder for whites to get into a good educational program than blacks with lesser qualifications.


Most whites start the 100 yard race on the 50 yard line


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Start here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So your EVIDENCE is a biased website that's best example is comparing a spill in California with one in Alabama.  How about the natural gas leakage from storage wells in North Hills California ( a very upscale neighborhood that's mostly affluent Black, Latino and White) that went on for years despite complaints and legal action.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

gipper said:


> In your mind nothing has changed in 245 plus years.



Here are things that have been said by whites here:

_“This is pipe dream shit meant to feed the n-I-g-g-e-r-s and the s-p-I-c-s because they're stupid enough to believe that shit.”

“Today blacks act like animals because they are BARELY evolved past the Ape and need a strong central figure (the white man) to keep them in place and acting like normal people.”

“Sick of their shit and we should not hide it anymore. When they call me a fucking racist, and I say you damn right I am!!! Fuck those fucking people!”

“Why do Browns ("people of color") feel compelled to steal, assault, rape, murder Whites, their obvious superior beings? Browns should be worshiping Whites instead of being jealous douchebag criminals.'”

“Blacks... prone to violence, think they're still in the jungle, low IQ blacks.”

“How can you look at the world and not see that ALL ADVANCEMENTS came from Europe and America? Yeah, we're the superior race on the earth. All others developed because of whites”

“Look, he is actually intelligent and an actual person of color! How often does that happen?”

“We swear muthafuckers, you take our beaners from us and we’ll come for your guns one day Filthy fucks!”

“MAGA! This is great news! Everything is falling into place so we can build the Wall and thwart this invasion of brown diseease ridden third worlders who are a threat to our sovereignty, culture and American traditions.”

“Being the elected representative of a bunch of dumbass ghetto Jungle Monkeys doesn't take intelligence. It take a ghetto dialect and a promise to get them more welfare.”

“Valerie Jarrett.... Is she that light skinned negro who looks like that ape in Planet of the Apes (negroes?) I thought she was an ape...Next you'll be telling me Mooch isn't really a shaved wookie.”

“The asians made fun of obama.....the asians refer to negroes as 'monkey people' and not in jest....they are serious....and why shouldn't they be?”

“Pay the pavement ape or he will get very angry and burn his house down.”

“Yawn, Kambala wants every African American crack addict to have their own home while White, Red, and Yellow Americans some disabled vets rot on the street.”

“Nigga's acting like a Nigga...must be part of the Thugery... most blacks don't act like that!”

“Engage me and die, n'gr.”

“Folks, you couldn't today pay me enough to live anywhere near a large black population.”

“I believe the black race is inferior to both the white and yellow races....I can prove it by taking a look at the world map and income, innovation/scientific discoveries, and prison populations. Maybe you have some other mysterious way of defining the word but you never seem to say what it is”.

“Most intelligent people understand how stupid blacks are....average i.q. of 85.....being one you should know.”

“Fuck off House Negro. Shine my boots bitch.”

“Monkey's are more civilized than many blacks -Quit insulting monkeys.”

“You're talking about balkanization. I'm all for it. I'm also for restoring the 1790 Naturalization Act, the very first legislation by the first Congress making only White people U.S. Citizens.”

“Hasn't it been proven, in the last few days, that blacks are incapable of living in the environment of civilization? Send them back to Africa.”

“Why do blacks behave the way they do?

Genetic deficiencies...proven the world over. Dark people need whitey to lead....PERIOD just like Africa is the shithole of the world, the black US communities mirror that”

“Video emerges of the carjacking that killed an Uber Eats driver this week. The girls were arrested and are ages monkey and chimp.”

“You can take a negro out of the ghetto. But you can't take the ghetto out of the negro.”

“Ever wonder why blacks are so sensitive about being compared to monkeys? hehheh obviously the truth can be painful.”

“See, coloreds like that monkey have no value. They're worthless. It should be legal for the cop to simply draw his weapon and shoot him in his fat fucking face...”

“Just White peoples existence is a constant reminder to blacks that they are very inferior.”

“Everybody knows black people fuck everything up and make the value go down. If only you could just quit being black. But you can't.....DARKIE!!!” _

Now exactly what has really changed except that blacks aren't slaves?


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> So your EVIDENCE is a biased website that's best example is comparing a spill in California with one in Alabama.  How about the natural gas leakage from storage wells in North Hills California ( a very upscale neighborhood that's mostly affluent Black, Latino and White) that went on for years despite complaints and legal action.


Why can't you guys face the fucking truth?


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Well all of that is made up nonsense


Well if you think that you must be a very young person. Everyone, including bankers and real estate people called those loans "liar's loans" .


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> So your EVIDENCE is a biased website that's best example is comparing a spill in California with one in Alabama.  How about the natural gas leakage from storage wells in North Hills California ( a very upscale neighborhood that's mostly affluent Black, Latino and White) that went on for years despite complaints and legal action.


You want to discuss the grain of sand....and ignore the beach


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Well if you think that you must be a very young person. Everyone, including bankers and real estate people called those loans "liar's loans" .


I wish I was young again. Discrimination against black people was completely legal in my lifetime


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Well if you think that you must be a very young person. Everyone, including bankers and real estate people called those loans "liar's loans" .


He sounds very young.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Thank for that in depth peer reviewed scientific study involving thousands of subjects on the level of racial wealth disparity in this country.  Lol



You're welcome.  But since you refuse to acknowledge the studies I posted, WTF am I supposed to do for a troll like you?


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You're welcome.  But since you refuse to acknowledge the studies I posted, WTF am I supposed to do for a troll like you?


Put the kid on ignore, like I did.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You're welcome.  But since you refuse to acknowledge the studies I posted, WTF am I supposed to do for a troll like you?


I'm happy to look ar your studies.


Oh and you are a moron
  Lol


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Put the kid on ignore, like I did.


Yes please


----------



## Mac-7 (Apr 20, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> For those playing along at home, Lisa totally freaked out when she went to a mall and there were posters of black people.  They'd have to call in a clean up crew if she met an actual black person.
> 
> Here's the thing.  There's already "Affirmative Action' for white people.  Most of the hiring decisions are made by white people.  This is why the biggest winners in Affirmative Actions have been - wait for it - White women.
> 
> All AA does at the end of the day is make sure that you aren't rejecting qualified minority applicants.


Wrong

AA legalizes discrimination against white males


----------



## gipper (Apr 20, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Here are things that have been said by whites here:
> 
> _“This is pipe dream shit meant to feed the n-I-g-g-e-r-s and the s-p-I-c-s because they're stupid enough to believe that shit.”
> 
> ...


Yes we know your living your life in chains and have no rights.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> A black man gets 50% less resume Responses than white. Blacks get redlined 50% of the time .
> 
> 
> Racism is a huge part of the pie chart.



Ignoring my post as to how that so-called study is flawed.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Ignoring my post as to how that so-called study is flawed.


Well when I grew up I knew a guy......lol


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

gipper said:


> Yes we know your living your life in chains and have no rights.


And here we see the problem. You ignore the racism to talk stupid.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> It's so personal with you.  You cant debate the facts
> 
> Meanwhile, the housing market is structured to disproportionately exclude Black and brown households, as zoning codes and building practices incentivize the construction of very large homes at the expense of smaller, more affordable homes. “Because people of color are far more likely than white people to be first-time rather than repeat homebuyers,” Perry testified, “a mass of housing inventory weighted against attainable starter homes disproportionately favors households with higher concentrations of generational wealth to pay bigger down payments


Zoning codes aren't structured that way.  Builders build large houses because the percentage of profits from a large house are far higher than from a small house.  When I lived in Ventura a few years ago, one of the builders was forced to build a mix of farmworkers rental housing, low priced condos and expensive large houses all closely confined in one neighborhood.  The large homes were priced well over market to subsidize the cheaper housing and weren't selling despite their being a shortage of housing at the time.  It was the only way he could get a zoning change from agricultural to residential.  The builder took a bath on the project and as far as I know, no one is building large projects in Ventura now.  I just looked at Realtor.com and there are NINE new homes for sale in Ventura, all built on single lots.  NINE homes in a city of nearly a quarter million people.


----------



## DBA (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Thank for that in depth peer reviewed scientific study involving thousands of subjects on the level of racial wealth disparity in this country.  Lol


I don't think anyone is arguing there is not any racial wealth disparity but rather the reasons for it.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Ignoring my post as to how that so-called study is flawed.


The study is not flawed. You just want to keep lying to yourself.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Zoning codes aren't structured that way.  Builders build large houses because the percentage of profits from a large house are far higher than from a small house.  When I lived in Ventura a few years ago, one of the builders was forced to build a mix of farmworkers rental housing, low priced condos and expensive large houses all closely confined in one neighborhood.  The large homes were priced well over market to subsidize the cheaper housing and weren't selling despite their being a shortage of housing at the time.  It was the only way he could get a zoning change from agricultural to residential.  The builder took a bath on the project and as far as I know, no one is building large projects in Ventura now.  I just looked at Realtor.com and there are NINE new homes for sale in Ventura, all built on single lots.  NINE homes in a city of nearly a quarter million people.


Bullshit.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

DBA said:


> I don't think anyone is arguing there is not any racial wealth disparity but rather the reasons for it.


To deny racism is not even a part of it is just foolish


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

DBA said:


> I don't think anyone is arguing there is not any racial wealth disparity but rather the reasons for it.


The reason is racism. But you want to deny that.


----------



## ThomasSowellsFro (Apr 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Ignoring my post as to how that so-called study is flawed.


Flawed how


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

DBA, 

You would not think it was funny if you had to live facing white racism.


----------



## gipper (Apr 20, 2022)

IM2 said:


> And here we see the problem. You ignore the racism to talk stupid.


Where have I said racism doesn’t exist?  You think everything is racist. You also think ALL white people are racist.

I bet your heroes are black criminals who try to kill whites.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> Flawed how


He doesn't know.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> There is MASSIVE white generational wealth in this country while IN MY LIFETINE discrimination against black people was legal
> 
> 
> Holy cow


There is?  In my extended family, only one cousin received a bequest from her middle-class factory worker father.  My wife's family had to liquidate her parent's house when they went into assisted living with dementia and Alzheimer's to pay the bills and wound up having to pay burial costs out of their pockets.  Generational wealth is a myth and always has been for the majority of Americans.  What isn't a myth is white Americans and immigrants of all races and nationalities being taught that hard work and sacrifice breeds success.  Many black Americans whose families have clawed their way into the middle and upper classes are teaching their children the same lesson.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> There is?  In my extended family, only one cousin received a bequest from her middle-class factory worker father.  My wife's family had to liquidate her parent's house when they went into assisted living with dementia and Alzheimer's to pay the bills and wound up having to pay burial costs out of their pockets.  Generational wealth is a myth and always has been for the majority of Americans.  What isn't a myth is white Americans and immigrants of all races and nationalities being taught that hard work and sacrifice breeds success.  Many black Americans whose families have clawed their way into the middle and upper classes are teaching their children the same lesson.


Dude.  I do not care about your family 


My god everyone here thinks one case represents America


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

gipper said:


> Where have I said racism doesn’t exist?  I think everything is racist. You also think ALL white people are racist.
> 
> I bet your heroes are black criminals who try to kill whites.


No, I don't think all white people are racist. I've said not all whites are racists way too many times for you to repeat that lie. If I were you, I would stop betting. You want me to pretend that things have changed so much, but in reality, the only thing that has changed is that white racism is not overt.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> There is?  In my extended family, only one cousin received a bequest from her middle-class factory worker father.  My wife's family had to liquidate her parent's house when they went into assisted living with dementia and Alzheimer's to pay the bills and wound up having to pay burial costs out of their pockets.  Generational wealth is a myth and always has been for the majority of Americans.  What isn't a myth is white Americans and immigrants of all races and nationalities being taught that hard work and sacrifice breeds success.  Many black Americans whose families have clawed their way into the middle and upper classes are teaching their children the same lesson.


Yes there is and your anecdote doesn't change that.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Dude.  I do not care about your family
> 
> 
> My god everyone here thinks one case represents America


Yeah, that's the general problem. They don't want to be painted with a broad brush when we talk about continued racist acts but are glad to use that broad brush to deny the effects of white racism.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 20, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Oooh, I think Welfare Ray finally got tired of me pointing out his hypocrisy and put me on ignore.  Well, sad, so I can just keep mocking him without response.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're kidding right?  No one could be that stupid or ignorant.  Jews have been discriminated against since the Middle Ages at least.  Asian immigrants were treated worse than dogs in the USA and discriminated against in their own countries by colonial powers for hundreds of years.  The "white" Latinos (those light skilled ones of mostly Spanish descent) still discriminate against the darker skinned mostly Indian descended citizens of their countries.


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 20, 2022)

Lisa558
*They can’t face that people fail or succeed due primarily to their own life choices, and thus Paul - faced with the reality that *

Sure, there are blk people who have raised themselves up from poverty and beaten the odds, but why should anyone have to fight a game rigged against them ? And why in the world would anyone think every child, or even most would be able to do this, who are in a similar situation….?

*Unrealistic.*

_But here's the kicker._

*No other group of Americans has pulled themselves up by the bootstraps the way black Americans have.*

Just 147 years ago most black Americans were held in bondage. Blk ppl owned nothing, no property, no assets of any kind and most were not educated.

And just 1 and a half lifetimes since blk ppl are collectively are worth billions of dollars. Many are working or middle-class. This despite Jim Crow and other examples of racism and bigotry.

We are a very special group of people

Lisa558
*impoverished Jews went from tenements to suburban homes in a single generation - has to claim they had “help.*

Yeah because of course blk ppl had just as much access to move into the burbs back then. Right ?



And that was done, in part, by a white Jewish man called William Levitt and this white flight to suburbs was subsidized by the government, which spent billions on highway construction and low-cost loans, essentially available only to whites in those newly developing residential spaces.

Nowadays they can be more slick so they create these “_Neighborhood Improvement Associations_” which are basically ways to keep blacks out.

But hey you won.

This is the white world you want and many have. Right ?







You wake up and you look one way ? And what do you see ? White people !! Look another ? _"Yipee !! More white people !!"_

Lisa558
*And you notice how Paul, oozing hostility for Jews*

I want you to show one instance of a black person in America harming a Jewish person with impunity.

Anti-Black racism is done with IMPUNITY. Meaning no one gets punished and BTW I have no hostility towards Jewish. Jews have always had hosilty towards us





It was Dan Burros (_A Jew_) that blew up and killed four young black girls 16th bombing in 1963









Lisa558
*Like help by being told “no more Jews” by the Ivy League? *

All Jews did to get around that (_if it even happened_) was whiten their names (_as many famous jews have done_)

Woody Allen = Allen Konigsberg
Fred Astaire = Frederick Austerlitz
Bob Dylan = Robert Zimmerman
Jack Benny = Benjamin Kubelsky
Mel Brooks = Mel Kaminsky
George Burns = Nathan Birnbaum
David Copperfield = David Seth Kotkin
Kirk Douglas = Issur Danielovitch Demsky
Lauren Bacall = Joan Perske
Tony Curtis = Bernie Schwartz
Elliott Gould = Elliott Goldstein
Zsa Zsa Gabor = Sara Gabor
Judy Garland = Frances Gumm
Cary Grant = Larry Leach
Larry King = Larry Zeiger
Jerry Lewis = Joseph Levitch
Joan Rlvers = Joan Molinsky
Gene Wilder = Jerome Silberman

And thern give their kids these really anglo white american name Noah, Madison, Tyler, Mackenzie, Miley and Dakota

That's how the white club works. White people have had to forget the history, customs and traditions of the countries that they originate from and come to together on this ridiculous notion of whiteness.

Thats the power of white supremacy. The desire for White Normalcy from even white people who change their names to whitewash any hint of ethnicity.

Lisa558
*Claimed Jews always had help? Help? Like being rounded up to be systematically exterminated like vermin? Like being expelled from country after country, going back 1000 years? *

Yes and no one tells Jews to "_get over it_" No one says. “_My family never killed any Jews_”

This is what we get.






Lisa558
*That aside, what type of help did the Jewish children of the 30s and 40s have in this country, with poor, impoverished immigrant parents? Somehow, they managed to get beyond poverty, and to an above-average level, and without “help.*”

The Jews didn't suffer from hundreds of years of slavery - Because they were White.
The Jews could vote by the 1860s, not the 1960s – Because they were White.
The Jews qualified for the Homestead Act, the G.I. Bill and FHA loans – Because they were White.
The Jews could live in nice neighbourhoods and go to nice schools – Because they were White.
Yes the Jews suffered no question. But whatever stereotypes they may have had then doesn't impact them now.

*They're just another white person.*

The same cannot be said for a black person.

Lisa558
*Blacks today, and for the past two generations, have indeed had help by being jumped ahead of whites, with better grades and scores, for admission to higher Ed programs. THAT is help.*

Name me a university which is lowering the bar to allow all these dumb blk ppl in ?


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 20, 2022)

Dekster said:


> And I would think at 62, at some point you were aware of and perhaps attended a segregated school.


Perhaps a De Facto segregated school, they still exist, although most of them are in the inner city, de jure segregated schools have been illegal since Ike's presidency.  Even back then, most segregated schools were either in the Deep South or were for the liberal upper crust in the Northeast.  You know expensive prep schools to send kids to Haaavard any Yale.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 20, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> We've had 116 justices on the Supreme court.  112 of them have been white.  108 of them have been white males.  The real question is, why has it taken THIS LONG to put a black woman on SCOTUS?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why would we want a political balance on SCOTUS?  Its job isn't to make judgements based on political ideologies but based on the law and Constitution.  Anyway, SCOTUS has been liberal leaning since FDR packed it in the thirties.  He's the one that politicized SCOTUS.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Lisa558
> *They can’t face that people fail or succeed due primarily to their own life choices, and thus Paul - faced with the reality that *
> 
> Sure, there are blk people who have raised themselves up from poverty and beaten the odds, but why should anyone have to fight a game rigged against them ? And why in the world would anyone think every child, or even most would be able to do this, who are in a similar situation….? *Unrealistic.*
> ...


They are all doing it, and I’ve given you stats and charts before. What do you think “Affirmative Action” is all about?! It’s to let in blacks who wouldn’t have gotten if if they were white. And that means whites who scored better, and got higher grades, are kept out to make room for them.

You are in total denial. The biggest blind spot, that just shrieks to your victimhood, is that no other group claws their way up from such disadvantage as blacks. Jews have been persecuted FOR MILENNIA, the worst being their attempted extermination, and yet….here we are, ABOVE AVERAGE in terms of net income, wealth, educational attainment, and contributions on a per capita basis to society,

But you can’t have that, can you? A persecuted minority that goes from having Grandma and Aunt Ruth and her kids and husband gassed….to a college education and an upper-middle class life in ONE generation?

The only way you can explain it away is by the ”Jews got help” line, or they never really had it so bad at all. NOPE. The truth is that all they did is stay in school, not have OOW babies, and made lots of sacrifices to get an education.

You really should encourage blacks to emulate Jews (and Asians - another persecuted minority), rather than resent them for their wise choices and admirable traits that enabled them to rise from poverty to the middle class in 30 years.

(And stop with…..blacks weren’t allowed into the suburbs. Every f‘in excuse you make is about what happened GENERATIONS ago. What’s the excuse now? Blacks have been favored for college and grad school admissions for 45 years!


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Because Republicans wont help them


Look at where they live, Democrats are certainly NOT helping them.


----------



## gipper (Apr 20, 2022)

IM2 said:


> No, I don't think all white people are racist. I've said not all whites are racists way too many times for you to repeat that lie. If I were you, I would stop betting. You want me to pretend that things have changed so much, but in reality, the only thing that has changed is that white racism is not overt.


That’s the only thing?  Really?  See this merely proves you’re uninformed.

Are blacks who kill whites because they hate whites, acceptable to you?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Look at where they live, Democrats are certainly NOT helping them.


Black people disagree with your assessment of which party helps them


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 20, 2022)

Dekster said:


> Then perhaps you will take the Cleveland historical society's word that your city didn't fully desegregate schools until the late 1970's  The Desegregation of Cleveland Public Schools - A 40-Year Struggle for Public School Equity | Cleveland Historical


If you bothered to read that, you would find that it was talking about de facto segregation.  Meaning kids went to schools near where they lived.  The courts solution was to put both black and white kids on busses for hours every day driving them to strange neighborhoods to attend schools where they didn't know anyone and couldn't attend after school activities like sports or band because the busses left right after school.


----------



## gipper (Apr 20, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Lisa558
> *They can’t face that people fail or succeed due primarily to their own life choices, and thus Paul - faced with the reality that *
> 
> Sure, there are blk people who have raised themselves up from poverty and beaten the odds, but why should anyone have to fight a game rigged against them ? And why in the world would anyone think every child, or even most would be able to do this, who are in a similar situation….?
> ...


It’s not good to live in the past or to obsess about it. The country has changed, thanks to white people realizing how dumb racism is.


----------



## gipper (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Black people disagree with your assessment of which party helps them


It’s apparent neither party helps them. Hell we had a black potus who did nothing for blacks.


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 20, 2022)

Lisa558
*They are all doing it*

Yes. That's because black people are a special people. Where as white supremacists you need a system to prop you up

Lisa558
*and I’ve given you stats and charts before. *

Stats created by white supremacists. Right ?

Lisa558
*What do you think “Affirmative Action” is all about?! *

Racism and white supremacy is itself affirmative action.




Lisa558
*It’s to let in blacks who wouldn’t have gotten if if they were white. And that means whites who scored better, and got higher grades, are kept out to make room for them.*

Name me the university that is lowering the bar to let all these dumb blk ppl in ? Or the university that is letting in all these undeserving blacks in at the expense of whites ?

Lisa558
*You are in total denial. *

That's the funniest thing you've said so far.


.@Lisa558
*, and yet….here we are, ABOVE AVERAGE in terms of net income, wealth, educational attainment, and contributions on a per capita basis to society,*

And that's because they are white. Take one of, or perhaps THE most influential Jewish person alive - Mark Zuckerberg

Mark Zuckerberg attended two of the most expensive and prestigious schools in the USA (Harvard, Phillips Exeter Academy).

Or take Bill Gates (who isn't Jewish) Gates’s father was a successful attorney (_who went to college on the white supremacist publicly-funded G.I. Bill_) and his mother served on the Board of Directors for First Interstate Bank (_her own father was a bank president_).

The Gates family were able to afford to send their son to the top Lakeside School, in Seattle, where thanks to proceeds from a _“rummage sale”_ put on by the wealthy parents at the school the resources existed to purchase, for the students, an early computer system.

It was this early introduction to computing (_which Gates would not have obtained at any Seattle public school, or even many other private ones_), that launched him on his career path.

Or take Steve Jobs (_Founder Of Apple_) if he wasn't put up for adoption and his father returned with him back to Syria, then it is highly unlikely he would founded one of the world’s top computer companies.

Their success was due to his parents bank account and a bit a luck.

This is not to dispute there own hard work and ability; it is simply to say that circumstances also play a huge role in where people end up.

*About half the world’s 7 billion people live on less than $2.50 a day.*

Buying a computer or being an inventor or business whizz to many ppl would be like you trying to buy a Bugatti Veyron. Access to knowledge and education on this planet is very limited.

Lisa558
*The biggest blind spot, that just shrieks to your victimhood, is that no other group claws their way up from such disadvantage as blacks.*

Being white is a club and in club you have duties

Duties of the White Club

Accept White American culture as your guide to life. Practise it and do not question it. Your aim is to speak, dress and act like a  middle-class White American with a good education.
Speak English and speak it with one of the accepted club accents.
Do not seriously question or challenge white racism.
Do not make common cause with blacks
Have mostly white friends.
Marry a white person. Back in the 1940s breaking this rule would get you kicked out, no questions asked. Even now it is still a strike against you. Not so for white men who marry Asian women.
*Privileges:*

Living in better neighbourhoods with better schools and safer streets.
Lower unemployment.
Higher pay.
Longer life.
Not being seen as a threat by the police or security guards.
Being seen as more fully human.
Having whites take your ideas and experiences seriously (at least for males).
Listening to racist jokes (does not seem like a privilege, but it functions as one).
You forget that alongside the Irish and Italians, the Jews when they first came to America they were not seen as white at first even though they pretty much looked it.

It was only when they all said _"Sure we'll hate on those n*ggers too" _that they admitted.

It's the threat of losing privileges that keeps those in the club from rocking the boat, from standing up to its racism.

Lisa558
*Jews have been persecuted FOR MILENNIA, the worst being their attempted extermination, and yet….here we are, ABOVE AVERAGE in terms of net income, wealth, educational attainment, and contributions on a per capita basis to society,*

Getting ppl to acknowledge the humanity of a group of white people (_however much this group may differ from most of them in terms of religion and certain cultural traditions_) is a far cry from convincing them of the equal value of blks who don’t look like them, who might not speak the same language, and who are routinely viewed as taking white jobs and soaking up welfare.

Even when white people are enemies they will put all that to one side when it comes to black people. That's why in WW2, when the USA used to capture German POW's on the ships, despite USA being at war with the Germans. The German POW's were still allowed to eat in the same mess hall as the white USA Americans soldiers but the black Americans soldiers weren't.

Lisa558
*But you can’t have that, can you? A persecuted minority that goes from having Grandma and Aunt Ruth and her kids and husband gassed….to a college education and an upper-middle class life in ONE generation?*

No. That's called the system of white supremacy. I think one of the problem is that many whites like you think the world is just. There are “_imperfections_”,  But by and large society is just.

From what I can tell, this seems to be one of the main differences in how whites and blacks think about America and why they often talk past each other

Most whites seem to take it for granted, assume it, while most blacks do not.

But people like you take this country as being just as a given and reason backwards from it: if America is just, then so are the police and the courts, the schools and the press.

And if America is just then racism can no longer a big issue and the troubles that blacks still have must be all their own fault. That's pretty much how you think.

.@lisa55
*You really should encourage blacks to emulate Jews (and Asians - another persecuted minority), rather than resent them for their wise choices and admirable traits that enabled them to rise from poverty to the middle class in 30 years.*

Well let's talk about Asians. I think I've said enough on Jews.

So here we go with that "Miracle of the Han River" lie. The lie that says Asians just built themselves up and all these companies just spouted up becuase they're just so smart

You miss out the fact after the 1950's the USA started outsourcing their jobs as blk ppl started fighting for civil rights and wanting economic empowerment.

The US government and American companies started shifting their investments overseas. So after Nam and the Korean conflict you start seeing huge investment in Asia. They went looking for small companies that were established and loaded them up with cash.

That's when the Samsungs and the Sonys and the Ninetndos started popping up and getting more muscle on the global scene

Black ppl in the US have built private communities, banks but we were shut out by law, by decree, by bombing, by goverrment force and violence. Asians have never been through any of that in the US.

You've never had a China Town that was blown up like the black wall street. So Asians were allowed to be at the front of the queue as a buffer class between black and white people

Let the white supremacist sabotage Canal Street in New York. See how they get on after that ?



.
Black people are the only people who practice meritocracy. We don't have people in places with muscle who can who can creak open a door for us.

We are obligated to practice meritocracy because there is no mechanism that allow us to cheat the system. Where as everybody else is caught in cheating scandals, tutoring scandals, payoff scandals, degree scandals.

If we get it. We earn it

Lisa558
*What’s the excuse now? Blacks have been favored for college and grad school admissions for 45 years*

So name the university that's letting in all these dumb blacks ?


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Lisa558
> *They are all doing it*
> 
> Yes. That's because black people are a special people. Where as white people you need a system to prop you up
> ...


You expect someone to read all your lengthy diatribes. All I need to know about you was in your first paragraph - how blacks are a special people and whites need help to “prop them up.”

You are the poster boy for a  “black supremacist.” Go sell it to to the brainwashed, self-loathing white liberals.


----------



## gipper (Apr 20, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Lisa558
> *They are all doing it*
> 
> Yes. That's because black people are a special people. Where as white supremacists you need a system to prop you up
> ...


Those duties and privileges you mention are unknown to me, and last I checked I’ve been white all my life.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> Flawed how



Click the link and read it.


----------



## ThomasSowellsFro (Apr 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Click the link and read it.


There ain't no link in your reply.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> There ain't no link in your reply.



I see you're a newbie.  Let me explain how blogs work:  When you join a conversation late, you read all the past posts that's been discussed so you have an understanding what's being talked about and what was talked about earlier.  That way you won't be asking questions that were already answered.  

Because you're a newbie I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and post it again.  









						What's Wrong With A Study That Used 'Black Names' On Fake Resumes
					

As we see a rise in attempts to erase racial discrimination, it's important to look critically behind the curtain at the proof that claims it exists.




					thefederalist.com


----------



## monkrules (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> It most certainly does if you grew up in a home with white generational wealth made during years blacks were discriminated against
> 
> 
> Like donnie trump


Jeeeze!!!

Do you even read the stupid fucking bullshit you write? You should be ASHAMED to show the world what a fucking crybaby you are.

Life is tough. And it's often unfair - at least it seems that way. But most people find the courage and strength to deal with it. And often, to rise above those problems.

Relatively few whites have inherited wealth. Most create good lives on their own, through plain old hard work and self motivation.

Now there has never been a guarantee that any given person will be successful or make a fortune.

The idea that blacks would all be wealthy if only white hadn't held them back is fucking LAUGHABLE. Blacks have had every advantage for as long as I can remember. And STILL they manage to totally fuck up nearly everything they touch. That is THEIR fault, and theirs alone.

Blacks have had Affirmative Action giving them loads of advantages for a long, long time. It's easy for Blacks to get Financial Aide to pay them to go to college. They get Section 8, and Food Stamps, and preferences in hiring. Standards have been lowered across the board - in education, business, etc., - simply to make it possible for Blacks to get into colleges and jobs for which, honestly, they would not otherwise qualify.

Yet, even with all of the above advantages, blacks STILL SPEND THEIR LIVES WHINING AND COMPLAINING.

Tell us this: WHEN, if ever, will the time come for Blacks to simply quit the whining, get off their lazy asses, and take personal responsibility for their own bad choices.

When you hear people bring these things into the conversation, it's usually because people are sick and tired of listening to a bunch of stinking crybabies who refuse to earn their own way. Try to remember one thing: the TRUTH is not racist.

When people attack Lisa558 for stating obvious facts, it's beyond ridiculous. It just emphasizes how far some folks will go to avoid facing reality.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

monkrules said:


> Jeeeze!!!
> 
> Do you even read the stupid fucking bullshit you write? You should be ASHAMED to show the world what a fucking crybaby you are.
> 
> ...


You seem upset.


White generational wealth exists


----------



## monkrules (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> You seem upset.
> 
> 
> White generational wealth exists


Have someone read, and explain, post #777 to you. Maybe you'll get a clue as to the source of my frustration.

Believe me, I am not alone. Blacks are their own worst enemy, but they're too fucking stupid, and stubborn, to see it. Then, of course, it's also soooo much easier to whine and blame others for our own failings.

Have a nice day.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 20, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Lisa558
> *As I said in my OP, the reasons for poverty among blacks is the same as it is for whites. And the reason I’m focusing on blacks is because racism is being blamed for THEIR poverty, and obviously not for whites.*
> 
> White supremacy is just as much psychologically as it is material. You focus on the material things
> ...


You're wrong and wrong-headed.  There is no "white supremacy" Legally you are equal to me in every way.  I think I am morally superior because I take responsibility for my decisions and actions.  You think you are morally superior because you blame whites for the results of your decisions and actions.  Both are OPINIONS and we are entitled to our opinions.  The only blacks I show contempt for are those who refuse to take advantage of the many opportunities available to them and those like you who spend your lives accusing me of doing something I haven't done and being something I am not.  I have contempt for Whites, Asians, Indians and Latinos who behave like you as well.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

monkrules said:


> Have someone read, and explain, post #777 to you. Maybe you'll get a clue as to the source of my frustration.
> 
> Believe me, I am not alone. Blacks are their own worst enemy, but they're too fucking stupid, and stubborn, to see it. Then, of course, it's also soooo much easier to whine and blame others for our own failings.
> 
> Have a nice day.


That's racist


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> You're wrong and wrong-headed.  There is no "white supremacy" Legally you are equal to me in every way.  I think I am morally superior because I take responsibility for my decisions and actions.  You think you are morally superior because you blame whites for the results of your decisions and actions.  Both are OPINIONS and we are entitled to our opinions.  The only blacks I show contempt for are those who refuse to take advantage of the many opportunities available to them and those like you who spend your lives accusing me of doing something I haven't done and being something I am not.  I have contempt for Whites, Asians, Indians and Latinos who behave like you as well.


Yet racism exists.   You cant deny it


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 20, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> In most instances you need at least some money to generate money.


And you get money by earning it, living beneath your means and saving.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> And you get money by earning it, living beneath your means and saving.


And inheriting it


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 20, 2022)

Meathead said:


> I suspect this is BS, but if true, it is tragic how far you have fallen. Still the dregs of society as other people (of color) come into the country without money or a word of English and work, succeed and educate their children.


If it's a true story, your grandfather was a man to be reckoned with and Americans are poorer for his untimely death.  Black soldiers in the segregated WWII armed forces were a step above White and Latino troops and with very rare exceptions served well and proudly and were and asset to the United States. You should be truly proud of him.


----------



## gipper (Apr 20, 2022)

Can we all agree that slavery and racism are this country’s greatest sin?  We should all agree that much has been done to eliminate racism and help blacks rise economically and socially. More can be done, but claiming blacks face enormous challenges and racism every day in this country is absurd. Almost as absurd as claiming white supremacy is a thing.


----------



## ThomasSowellsFro (Apr 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I see you're a newbie.  Let me explain how blogs work:  When you join a conversation late, you read all the past posts that's been discussed so you have an understanding what's being talked about and what was talked about earlier.  That way you won't be asking questions that were already answered.
> 
> Because you're a newbie I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and post it again.
> 
> ...


lol Absolutely not. I ain't got the time nor energy my dude. You buggin' tbh.


SO basically he is saying that those names are not black but "poor black". This actually proves our point. Wtf is a poor black name vs a non poor black name. No, he is using that as a proxy for feelings about blacks in general. In other words, being black denotes inferiority and low class in his mind, not the name. So when he shows that study that shows people associate black names with inferiority, it proves the point even further. There is no "ghettoization" of black names. In those studies he cited, the "black" names are actually just white names, hence, employer thinks they're white, hence less discrimination. The names African Americans carried before the 80s were just white names. You're simply not going to convince me that there is a totally distinct set of African America names that denote high class compared to specifically African American names that denote low class. A perception of high class just means that black person has an ambiguous white name. Oh, and we still see these biases when the names are of Asian descent. That really does bunk this argument because Asians are unequivocally more successful than any other group in America.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 20, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> You mean other people who are not "people of African descent"?  White racists are the dregs of society, even lower than what you consider black people yet still you haven't figured this out.
> 
> It doesn't surprise me that you're not able to make the connection but hey that's to be expected, including you not believing the things I've relayed about by grandfather.  In fact it wasn't until I was enrolled in college and attending a history of aviation class that I first heard the term "Tuskegee Airman".  Our instructor was telling the class about this group of African American pilot who fought heroically during WWII when it suddenly dawned on me that my grandfather Captain John Daniels was one of these men.  And just like you, one of my classmates argued with the instructor about how there was no such thing as a "black pilot" during WWII.  I even backed up my instructor by indicating that my grandfather had been one of these men but to no avail.  I know the depictions of them by HBO and Steven Spielberg's Red Tails showed one of the bomber pilots they saved as wanting to shake the hand of the pilot who saved his life but was in disbelief and refused to once he discovered the pilot was black.  Do you think this is BS as well?
> 
> ...


It's funny you didn't know about the Tuskegee Airmen.  Admittedly I've been interested in WWII History since I was a child, but I knew about them by my early teens.  Red Tails was a joke of a movie, but segregation and hostility towards black servicemen was a fact.  It's hard to believe that your family wasn't proud of your grandfather and didn't actively remember him.  My family is proud of my great, great grandfather who came over from Ireland, deserted the Confederate army when he figured out what the war was about and fought for the Union.  He's held up as an example of always following your principals regardless of risk.  We would never forget him or fail to teach our new generations about his sacrifices.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 20, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> The white racists on this board are the losers, in every way.
> 
> If you're not sure you're one, ask somebody.  Lisa has a very low bar


I will agree with you and go a step further.  Racists of any color are losers in every way.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 20, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> So you think that out of all of the people in this country who are working on this problem, your solution of finish school and not having babies they can't afford is ALL that it takes for people to rise out of poverty?  And in your mind, this is a "black people's" problem right?
> 
> You're mistaken and it's been explained to you more than once and politely too I might add yet you respond with nothing but insults and derision.
> 
> ...


Perhaps because the dirt poor residents of Appalachia don't blame anyone else for their poverty.


----------



## ThomasSowellsFro (Apr 20, 2022)

gipper said:


> Can we all agree that slavery and racism are this country’s greatest sin?  We should all agree that much has been done to eliminate racism and help blacks rise economically and socially. More can be done, but claiming blacks face enormous challenges and racism every day in this country is absurd. Almost as absurd as claiming white supremacy is a thing.


Where's the scientific evidence of this claim? The gains have been superficial. Study I saw said that discrimination in jobs is as it was in the 60's. That segregation is almost as high today as it was in the 60s. What has changed markedly that you can put your finger on with actual empiricism? Racism is no different other than that it is illegal(in the market) and people are much better at hiding it. I mean, you and your family and friends use the N word all the time, but just not in public. People just go back to their own racial enclaves at the end of the work day-we have no meaningful interaction with people of different races.


----------



## ThomasSowellsFro (Apr 20, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Perhaps because the dirt poor residents of Appalachia don't blame anyone else for their poverty.


They blame the Mexicans and outsourcing of manufacturing jobs, and begged Trump to save them in 2016. The advent of Trump was due in part to white victimhood.


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 20, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> You expect someone to read all your lengthy diatribes. All I need to know about you was in your first paragraph - how blacks are a special people and whites need help to “prop them up.”
> 
> You are the poster boy for a  “black supremacist.” Go sell it to to the brainwashed, self-loathing white liberals.


We are a special people because we achieve in spite of the system.




























We achieve in spite of the system


----------



## gipper (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> Where's the scientific evidence of this claim? The gains have been superficial. Study I saw said that discrimination in jobs is as it was in the 60's. That segregation is almost as high today as it was in the 60s. What has changed markedly that you can put your finger on with actual empiricism? Racism is no different other than that it is illegal(in the market) and people are much better at hiding it. I mean, you and your family and friends use the N word all the time, but just not in public. People just go back to their own racial enclaves at the end of the work day-we have no meaningful interaction with people of different races.


The evidence is overwhelming.


----------



## ThomasSowellsFro (Apr 20, 2022)

gipper said:


> The evidence is overwhelming.


Then cite it.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 20, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Legally, people in Central America have legitimate claims under our current refugee laws.
> 
> The people on the St. Louis didn't. This was 1939.  No concentration camps, yet.   German Jews were free to leave, which is why 75% of German and Austrian Jews survived the war because they had the good sense to immigrate out LEGALLY before the war started.
> 
> Polish Jews, however, got the brunt of it... comprising half the Jews killed in the Holocaust.


No, they don't.  People from Mexico or Canada have legitimate claims under our current laws and international law because we are the nearest safe nation for asylum.  Asylum seekers from Guatemala can legally  go to Mexico or Honduras.  Those from Honduras can go to Guatemala, Nicaragua or El Salvador. Those from El Salvador can go to Guatemala, Honduras or Nicaragua.  Those from Nicaragua can go to Honduras or Costa Rica.  International law doesn't allow asylum seekers to pick any country they want to immigrate to, it has to be the nearest safe one.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 20, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Wow... so many things wrong with that statement.
> 
> The Nazis were only in power for 12 years.   Anti-Jewish sentiment can be traced back a lot further than that... they were blamed for instigating the revolutions that lost the war for Germany.  Was it fair, not really.
> 
> ...


Again you are wrong. FDR got us into the European War to save the UK.  FDR was an antisemite like you, but he was an Anglophile and personal friend of Winston Churchill.


----------



## Woodznutz (Apr 20, 2022)

Dekster said:


> If TyroneKwa never applied himself, got booted out of school, joined a gang, did the crimes, etc etc etc, the it is certainly TyroneKwa's fault.  However, when it comes to blacks as a group, it is naive to think that racism/Jim Crow didn't contribute to blacks still being disproportionately poor.  I am currently the owner of income-producing inherited properties that have been in my family for generations with those lovely Jim Crow restrictions in the deeds.


Speaking as a rental property owner and manager, it likely saved those properties for you.


----------



## Indeependent (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> A black man gets 50% less resume Responses than white. Blacks get redlined 50% of the time .
> 
> 
> Racism is a huge part of the pie chart.


You want to get into college?
Change your name from Advil to a normal name.


----------



## Indeependent (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> It's so personal with you.  You cant debate the facts
> 
> Meanwhile, the housing market is structured to disproportionately exclude Black and brown households, as zoning codes and building practices incentivize the construction of very large homes at the expense of smaller, more affordable homes. “Because people of color are far more likely than white people to be first-time rather than repeat homebuyers,” Perry testified, “a mass of housing inventory weighted against attainable starter homes disproportionately favors households with higher concentrations of generational wealth to pay bigger down payments


I was wondering why the 3 Black Towns I work in within the Town of Hempstead are exploding with mansions that have Black families owning them.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

Indeependent said:


> I was wondering why the 3 Black Towns I work in within the Town of Hempstead are exploding with mansions that have Black families owning them.


Were you,?


----------



## Woodznutz (Apr 20, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> We are all from the same era. Late 60s and early 70s was a great time to be a kid in America!


From the 1950's until the Beatles, G.O.A.T. (Greatest Of
All Times).


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> So you admit that racism is part of the problem


No I don't.  Racism hurts the racist far more than it hurts the "victim".


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> No I don't.  Racism hurts the racist far more than it hurts the "victim".


Opinion noted and dismissed


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 20, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Bullshit.


Go on realtor.com yourself.  Type in Ventura California and in the details check off new construction and single-family homes.  You can see the results for yourself.


----------



## Indeependent (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Were you,?


Your lies make me wonder about all aspects of your lies.


----------



## gipper (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> Then cite it.


If you think nothing has changed regarding the treatment of blacks these last 50-100 years, you’re not a serious person.


----------



## Woodznutz (Apr 20, 2022)

Darkwind said:


> This article was written by a 26 yr old college student by the name of Alyssa Ahlgren, who's in grad school for her MBA.   What a GREAT perspecitve...
> 
> My Generation Is Blind to the Prosperity Around Us!
> 
> ...


I think some people believe that because we are_ so prosperou_s that they don't think they should have to work to get theirs. Others believe that their imagined grievances i.e. 'the world is unfair', should be mollified by a monetary settlement (I'm not referring to black reparations).


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

Indeependent said:


> Your lies make me wonder about all aspects of your lies.


Do they?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

gipper said:


> If you think nothing has changed regarding the treatment of blacks these last 50-100 years, you’re not a serious person.


Has racism ended?


----------



## Indeependent (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Do they?


Yes!


----------



## Indeependent (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Has racism ended?


No; Some Blacks still hate some Whites.


----------



## ThomasSowellsFro (Apr 20, 2022)

gipper said:


> If you think nothing has changed regarding the treatment of blacks these last 50-100 years, you’re not a serious person.


I could have an empty cup, then drop one drop of water in it. By definition, the amount of water in the cup has changed, but not any amount worth ever mentioning. I ask again, cite the evidence.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

Indeependent said:


> No; Some Blacks still hate some Whites.


For good reason


----------



## Meathead (Apr 20, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> If it's a true story, your grandfather was a man to be reckoned with and Americans are poorer for his untimely death.  Black soldiers in the segregated WWII armed forces were a step above White and Latino troops and with very rare exceptions served well and proudly and were and asset to the United States. You should be truly proud of him.


That was my father, a USN Captain who fought in Okinawa and was one of the first Americans in Japan after the war. He was not black, and thankfully neither am I. He was buried with honors and now rests in Arlington National Cemetery. I am proud of him and his contribution to our country and still have his medals and the flag that was presented to us at his funeral and his Captain's sword.

He was one of the last of the Great Generation.

He is to be found here: He is to be found here: Her Captains


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Um, some of them are, some of them aren't.  That's why we need to have HEARINGS to figure that out.
> 
> The real problem is, we don't appoint enough courts and investigators to sort it out.  We just hope they'll get tired and go away.
> 
> ...


Being poor doesn't mean you're a refugee.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Has racism ended?


It can't end because democrats keep it alive for political reasons.  Gotta keep Black people believing that they're victims and the democrat party is their savior.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> It can't end because democrats keep it alive for political reasons.  Gotta keep Black people believing that they're victims and the democrat party is their savior.


Black people might disagree with that assessment.   Lol


----------



## gipper (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> I could have an empty cup, then drop one drop of water in it. By definition, the amount of water in the cup has changed, but not any amount worth ever mentioning. I ask again, cite the evidence.


Yeah nothing has changed in the past 100 years.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Black people might disagree with that assessment.   Lol


Yeah, the racist stupid ones.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Yeah, the racist stupid ones.


The 90% that vote Democrat?



Wow


----------



## Darkwind (Apr 20, 2022)

Woodznutz said:


> I think some people believe that because we are_ so prosperou_s that they don't think they should have to work to get theirs. Others believe that their imagined grievances i.e. 'the world is unfair', should be mollified by a monetary settlement (I'm not referring to black reparations).


What they fail to realize is that the generations that they blame, did not start out better off than the previous generation.  

It's a lie and a talking point.

EACH generation has to start out at the start, with nothing, and make the world a better place for themselves and others.

Today, it is far easier to survive and be alive and live, than it has ever been at any time since we began walking upright.


----------



## Darkwind (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> I could have an empty cup, then drop one drop of water in it. By definition, the amount of water in the cup has changed, but not any amount worth ever mentioning. I ask again, cite the evidence.


Every generation starts with that empty cup.

It is up to you to fill it.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> The 90% that vote Democrat?
> 
> 
> 
> Wow


Yeah.  You make people dependent, they're gonna vote for their masters.  Many Blacks are waking up.  That 90% ain't gonna last forever.


----------



## ThomasSowellsFro (Apr 20, 2022)

Darkwind said:


> Every generation starts with that empty cup.
> 
> It is up to you to fill it.


I'm good bro lol. The older I get, the more racially conservative I have become. I trust white and other non black people very little at this point. I used to subscribe to this Post Racial Theory nonsense white people have propagated, but You realize the elders were right all along.


----------



## ThomasSowellsFro (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Yeah.  You make people dependent, they're gonna vote for their masters.  Many Blacks are waking up.  That 90% ain't gonna last forever.


I can't vote for Republicans because of racism.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Yeah.  You make people dependent, they're gonna vote for their masters.  Many Blacks are waking up.  That 90% ain't gonna last forever.


You think 90% of black people are racist stupid ones


Holy cow that is racist


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> I'm good bro lol. The older I get, the more racially conservative I have become. I trust white and other non black people very little at this point. I used to subscribe to this Post Racial Theory nonsense white people have propagated, but You realize the elders were right all along.


Now this ^^^ is racist.


----------



## Indeependent (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> For good reason


Anga!


----------



## ThomasSowellsFro (Apr 20, 2022)

gipper said:


> Yeah nothing has changed in the past 100 years.


He refuses to cite actual data lol. Ok, man, but down blame woke people for not buying that argument. 


Nothing substantial other than the civil rights act, which, we forced white people to do. Everything else is pretty superficial. . 3/4 of whites hated King at the time of his death, they just had to kill em. If we're going to make substantial progress, we have to embrace woke doctrine and push policies that will, again, be considered cavalier to white people. I want to put trillions into more racism audits, and giving perpetrators millions in fines that go directly to the affected, and also impose jail sentences; make racism illegal and even punishable by the death penalty; give ADOS reparations; have black people establish some sort of Eugenics program to deal with problems of IQ that lie on the periphery as the cause of some black social ills. Then you can say we've made substantial progress.


----------



## Indeependent (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> You think 90% of black people are racist stupid ones
> 
> 
> Holy cow that is racist


I’d put it at less than 10% as most Blacks want to live a peaceful and meaningful life just like everyone else.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

Indeependent said:


> I’d put it at less than 10% as most Blacks want to live a peaceful and meaningful life just like everyone else.


Its incredibly racist


----------



## Indeependent (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Its incredibly racist


Everything is, isn’t it?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

Indeependent said:


> Everything is, isn’t it?


Uh..........nope


----------



## ThomasSowellsFro (Apr 20, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Now this ^^^ is racist.


The Native Americans sure wish they were racist. When people have been doing the same shit for over 500 years, it is a moral responsibility to be "racist". Denying a black man that, there can be nothing more anti black than that.


Are 50% of white people racist as well? Nearly half of whites say a majority nonwhite population will weaken American culture


----------



## Indeependent (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Uh..........nope


You’re so boring you make boring look interesting.
Feel feee to post.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

gipper said:


> If you think nothing has changed regarding the treatment of blacks these last 50-100 years, you’re not a serious person.


If after reading to comments I posted to you, if you think blacks are supposed to be satisfied with your perception of progress, you're not a serious person.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

Indeependent said:


> You’re so boring you make boring look interesting.
> Feel feee to post.


Okay dokey pokey


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Yeah, the racist stupid ones.


No that's not how it works.


----------



## Darkwind (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> I'm good bro lol. The older I get, the more racially conservative I have become. I trust white and other non black people very little at this point. I used to subscribe to this Post Racial Theory nonsense white people have propagated, but You realize the elders were right all along.


Then you're an idiot.

I trust or distrust people based on how they treat Me personally. 

But you have fun with that broad brush.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

Darkwind said:


> Every generation starts with that empty cup.
> 
> It is up to you to fill it.


Incorrect.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

Darkwind said:


> Then you're an idiot.
> 
> I trust or distrust people based on how they treat Me personally.
> 
> But you have fun with that broad brush.


Liar.


----------



## Darkwind (Apr 20, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Incorrect.


Says the idiot who is trying to fill a cup with no bottom.


----------



## Darkwind (Apr 20, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Liar.


No, but thanks for showing up and proving My point.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

Indeependent said:


> I’d put it at less than 10% as most Blacks want to live a peaceful and meaningful life just like everyone else.


You are way off. Because what you consider peaceful and meaningful is the maintenance of this and 90 percent or more of us who are black, not some white dude with an opinion, do not want this to continue.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

Darkwind said:


> Says the idiot who is trying to fill a cup with no bottom.


That would be you. You're a racist POS son and a liar.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> I can't vote for Republicans because of racism.


I understand. Stick with the racists where you're more comfortable.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> You think 90% of black people are racist stupid ones
> 
> 
> Holy cow that is racist


I didn't say that. Try again.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> I didn't say that. Try again.


Sorry dude


That is awful


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> He refuses to cite actual data lol. Ok, man, but down blame woke people for not buying that argument.
> 
> 
> Nothing substantial other than the civil rights act, which, we forced white people to do. Everything else is pretty superficial. . 3/4 of whites hated King at the time of his death, they just had to kill em. If we're going to make substantial progress, we have to embrace woke doctrine and push policies that will, again, be considered cavalier to white people. I want to put trillions into more racism audits, and giving perpetrators millions in fines that go directly to the affected, and also impose jail sentences; make racism illegal and even punishable by the death penalty; give ADOS reparations; have black people establish some sort of Eugenics program to deal with problems of IQ that lie on the periphery as the cause of some black social ills. Then you can say we've made substantial progress.


I don't know about the eugenics part, but increasing enforcement against racism, I'm all for it.


----------



## Darkwind (Apr 20, 2022)

IM2 said:


> That would be you. You're a racist POS son and a liar.


You are the fucking racist moron.  YOU HATE WHITEY with a passion and never let a day go bay that you don't say it.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Yeah.  You make people dependent, they're gonna vote for their masters.  Many Blacks are waking up.  That 90% ain't gonna last forever.


The people who have been made dependent are whites.  That's why you support the current white nationalist party in America-THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Sorry dude
> 
> 
> That is awful


Oh, sell that shit to some naive college kids. Doesn't work on me.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

Darkwind said:


> You are the fucking racist moron.  YOU HATE WHITEY with a passion and never let a day go bay that you don't say it.


Wrong again. I don't like whites who are racists. Are you telling me that all whites are racist?


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Oh, sell that shit to some naive college kids. Doesn't work on me.


It should work because its true.


----------



## Darkwind (Apr 20, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Wrong again. I don't like whites who are racists. Are you telling me that all whites are racist?


You don't like whites, full stop.  You HATE Whites.  Full stop.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Oh, sell that shit to some naive college kids. Doesn't work on me.


You said it not me


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

Darkwind said:


> What they fail to realize is that the generations that they blame, did not start out better off than the previous generation.
> 
> It's a lie and a talking point.
> 
> ...


We blame this generation because whites continue practicing racism. Everything you say here is untrue.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 20, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Do you always enjoy calling people racists when they point out the truth? The fact is that lower income people spend more on lottery tickets than the middle class, and the average income of blacks is lower than whites.



Wow, you mean poor people are more likely to waste money on lottery tickets when the state aggressively markets to them? AMAZING!  



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Like the lottery tickets, I see it all the time here. Kids with kids. Bottom line is when 25% of your girls are getting impregnated and 33% of your guys have felonies, it's not a wonder why they are being held back in society, but whites are not responsible for that, blacks do this to themselves. Now you post another phony story about employment discrimination. We've had laws against that the last couple of generations. Again, that study isn't an apples to apples comparison.



We've been over this, Welfare Ray...  White kids get probation, Black kids get convictions.  White kids get abortions and contraception, black kids get stuck with unwanted babies. 

Are you arguing that just having a law was good enough?  You never seem to think that does any good with gun control. 



Lisa558 said:


> The most common excuse I’ve heard is that Jews didn’t experience the horrors of antisemitism in THIS country, as if listening to the radio about Hitler killing your grandparents, and aunts, and uncles, and cousins, is not experiencing it. My parents’ circle of friends were primarily Jews whose own parents had escaped Jewish persecution in Europe, arrived here penniless and uneducated, and the entire next generation were all colelge graduates!


Uh, yeah, because they were white and Americans don't care that much about religion.  Duh...  



Lisa558 said:


> That is also why the leftists resent the Jews, and come up with all sorts of ridiculous justification for how a persecuted, expelled, mass murdered little minority of people end up being among the top - including a disproportionate number of Nobel prizes.



Actually, most people who resent Jews are the ones who've had the misfortune of working for one.


----------



## Darkwind (Apr 20, 2022)

IM2 said:


> We blame this generation because whites continue practicing racism. Everything you say here is untrue.


Everything I say is that absolute truth.  You blame this generation because you don't want to have to look in the miror.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

Darkwind said:


> You don't like whites, full stop.  You HATE Whites.  Full stop.


Answer the question racist. Are you saying all whites are racists?


----------



## Darkwind (Apr 20, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Answer the question racist. Are you saying all whites are racists?


Nope.  YOU hating all whites is not a causation of whites being racist.

It is just the narrow prism through which you see life.


----------



## ThomasSowellsFro (Apr 20, 2022)

IM2 said:


> I don't know about the eugenics part, but increasing enforcement against racism, I'm all for it.


I'm woke but I am a proponent of IQ. It wouldn't be compulsive, though, just a think tank for and by black people. People are scared of IQ because these white folks have coopted it under their own white desires agenda-obviously not with the benefit with black folk in mind. But I think a good faith conversation about it would be a good thing, so long as it is by blacks for blacks, controlled by blacks.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

Darkwind said:


> Everything I say is that absolute truth.  You blame this generation because you don't want to have to look in the miror.


Wrong again. I blame this generation because people like you, ray, lisa and others like you exist.


----------



## Darkwind (Apr 20, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Wrong again. I blame this generation because people like you, ray, lisa and others like you exist.


So, you just proved Me right.

You hate whites because you hate whites.   I treat everyone equally.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

Darkwind said:


> Nope.  YOU hating all whites is not a causation of whites being racist.
> 
> It is just the narrow prism through which you see life.


Wrong again. You conflate racism with whiteness and think that me not liking your racist ass means I don't like anyone white.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 20, 2022)

DBA said:


> She didn’t say blacks were unqualified. She said some blacks are unqualified, which is rather obvious. Some whites and some Asians are also unqualified. The point is, take race and gender completely out of the equation and let GPA’s, test scores, curriculum, etc. be the only critiria. The thing is, YOU don‘t want that because YOU know that may lead to an outcome which YOU don’t like.
> 
> Tell me why you think I am a racist?



You are from the South.
You support Trump
You engage in victim blaming for minorities. 

Racist 

To the point of Karen558, GPA and Test scores are just more examples of self-perpetuating privilege. Yeah, you get a white kid a tutor and move to a suburb where they aren't working with 2 kids to an out of date textbook, they are going to get better test scores and GPA's.  

Affirmative Action merely compensates for white privilege.  Full stop.  Get rid of white privilege, you wouldn't need Affirmative Action... this isn't complicated.


----------



## Darkwind (Apr 20, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Wrong again. You conflate racism with whiteness and think that me not liking your racist ass means I don't like anyone white.


Let Me ask you something, though I know you won't answer truthfully.

Do you jack off to Whites beating blacks or do you jack off to Blacks beating Whites?


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

Darkwind said:


> So, you just proved Me right.
> 
> You hate whites because you hate whites.   I treat everyone equally.


Wrong. It is this simple, I don't like whites who are racists.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

Darkwind said:


> Let Me ask you something, though I know you won't answer truthfully.
> 
> Do you jack off to Whites beating blacks or do you jack off to Blacks beating Whites?


Keep your personal habits to yourself.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Ignoring my post as to how that so-called study is flawed.



Written by someone who had no idea how resumes are written or processed.  I found the bit about age and religion funny.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> I can't vote for Republicans because of racism.


Except you just said a racist thing yourself. If a Republican said that he doesn’t trust blacks and other non-Caucasians, you‘d correctly point out that he’s a racist.

You libs are such hypocrites.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

IM2 said:


> That would be you. You're a racist POS son and a liar.


And another hypocrite weighs in…..


----------



## Darkwind (Apr 20, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Keep your personal habits to yourself.


So, that would be a yes on your part.

Got it.

Have a nice day.  You're too stupid to even see your own failings.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Wow, you mean poor people are more likely to waste money on lottery tickets when the state aggressively markets to them? AMAZING!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yup. Another liberal antisemite ^^^ calling other people racist.


----------



## Meathead (Apr 20, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Keep your personal habits to yourself.


Your failure is your own. Slavery and Jim Crow ended before you were born.  Stop whining.


----------



## gipper (Apr 20, 2022)

IM2 said:


> If after reading to comments I posted to you, if you think blacks are supposed to be satisfied with your perception of progress, you're not a serious person.


I think blacks should stop bitching (you in particular) and do their part to contribute to the nation’s economy and society.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> I'm woke but I am a proponent of IQ. It wouldn't be compulsive, though, just a think tank for and by black people. People are scared of IQ because these white folks have coopted it under their own white desires agenda-obviously not with the benefit with black folk in mind. But I think a good faith conversation about it would be a good thing, so long as it is by blacks for blacks, controlled by blacks.


I think using an IQ test model based on tests created by Madison Grant, a white supremacist, should be scrapped and new tests developed that measures all forms of intelligence. So I see your point.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

gipper said:


> I think blacks should stop bitching (you in particular) and do their part to contribute to the nation’s economy and society.


I think whites like you should do more public policy research before you run your mouth trying to tell me what blacks need to do.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> You said it not me


Whatever you say, champ.


----------



## gipper (Apr 20, 2022)

IM2 said:


> I think whites like you should do more public policy research before you run your mouth trying to tell me what blacks need to do.


I’m just trying to help.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> And another hypocrite weighs in…..


Here we have an affirmative action recipient barking all day about how whites get passed over. This "woman" is a joke.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

Darkwind said:


> So, that would be a yes on your part.
> 
> Got it.
> 
> Have a nice day.  You're too stupid to even see your own failings.


No, its telling you to keep your personal habits to yourself since I do none of those things. I'm fine, you have the problem.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

gipper said:


> I think blacks should stop bitching (you in particular) and do their part to contribute to the nation’s economy and society.


The first thing a Black person does when they can afford it is move out of their high crime Black neighborhood to a safer predominantly White neighborhood.  Even the Obama's did it, after using Black thugs like Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown for political reasons to stir racism.


----------



## ThomasSowellsFro (Apr 20, 2022)

IM2 said:


> I think using an IQ test model based on tests created by Madison Grant, a white supremacist, should be scrapped and new tests developed that measures all forms of intelligence. So I see your point.


How do you account for other groups that outperform whites in IQ tests(jews, asians)? The test should be as unbiased an accurate as possible, but It would certainly still have biases by whatever group is creating them. I took one last week on Mensa, and it was just a bunk of shapes and patterns.


----------



## gipper (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> The first thing a Black person does when they can afford it is move out of their high crime Black neighborhood to a safer predominantly White neighborhood.  Even the Obama's did it, after using Black thugs like Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown for political reasons to stir racism.


I certainly can’t blame them for moving out. I would too.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

gipper said:


> I certainly can’t blame them for moving out. I would too.


Yes, who wouldn't.  Gee, even the Obama's and other Blacks are racist, huh.


----------



## gipper (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Yes, who wouldn't.  Gee, even the Obama's and other Blacks are racist, huh.


I don’t consider it racist to move away from a crime ridden area. It’s smart.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Whatever you say, champ.


Okay dokey pokey


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

Meathead said:


> Your failure is your own. Slavery and Jim Crow ended before you were born.  Stop whining.


Exactly! These idiots have to go back generations to find examples of true racism.

It‘s unreal how adamant they are about insisting that blacks don’t have it within themselves to rise from poverty, via their own actions, like the Jews did.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

gipper said:


> I think blacks should stop bitching (you in particular) and do their part to contribute to the nation’s economy and society.


They could start by visiting poor black neighborhoods and telling the middle school students that they can move out of there and be middle class by the time they’re 30 if they…..repeat after me…..

1) No babies before marriage, in your 20s at the earliest
2) Finish high school, and then, at the minimum, get free career training at a vocational school or community college


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Okay dokey pokey


"There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs-partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs."
Booker T. Washington


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> How do you account for other groups that outperform whites in IQ tests(jews, asians)? The test should be as unbiased an accurate as possible, but It would certainly still have biases by whatever group is creating them. I took one last week on Mensa, and it was just a bunk of shapes and patterns.


Most Jews in this country are white, but yes….as a subgroup of whites, they do score higher than other whites.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> "There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs-partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs."
> Booker T. Washington


How nice for him


I guess he isnt part of the 90% of blacks you think are racist


----------



## ThomasSowellsFro (Apr 20, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Most Jews in this country are white, but yes….as a subgroup of whites, they do score higher than other whites.


IQ can still be used in a white supremacist fashion, even if Jews and Asians score higher. If IQ showed that Blacks did better than whites when  it was first created, I have no doubt that the data would have been discarded.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> IQ can still be used in a white supremacist fashion, even if Jews and Asians score higher. If IQ showed that Blacks did better than whites when  it was first created, I have no doubt that the data would have been discarded.


It‘s only your racism making you think that. Ofherwise, running would have been discarded as an Olympic sport because blacks are faster, on average.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 20, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Why would we want a political balance on SCOTUS? Its job isn't to make judgements based on political ideologies but based on the law and Constitution. Anyway, SCOTUS has been liberal leaning since FDR packed it in the thirties. He's the one that politicized SCOTUS.



Scotus has had a Republican Majority since Tricky Dick.  Since then, Republicans have made 11 appointments to the Democrats 5.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 20, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> No, they don't. People from Mexico or Canada have legitimate claims under our current laws and international law because we are the nearest safe nation for asylum. Asylum seekers from Guatemala can legally go to Mexico or Honduras. Those from Honduras can go to Guatemala, Nicaragua or El Salvador. Those from El Salvador can go to Guatemala, Honduras or Nicaragua. Those from Nicaragua can go to Honduras or Costa Rica. International law doesn't allow asylum seekers to pick any country they want to immigrate to, it has to be the nearest safe one.



I wasn't referring to international law, I was referring to our own... 



AZrailwhale said:


> Again you are wrong. FDR got us into the European War to save the UK. FDR was an antisemite like you, but he was an Anglophile and personal friend of Winston Churchill.



Yet FDR got the majority of the Jewish vote in this country every time he ran....


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Being poor doesn't mean you're a refugee.



I agree. 

That's why we need to have expeditious hearings to determine who has a legit claim, not stick them in camps for months or years .


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 20, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yup. Another liberal antisemite ^^^ calling other people racist.



I thought you had me on ignore. 

Jews aren't a race, they are a religion...   I don't despise you because of your genetics, I despise you because of your fucked up belief system.


----------



## Hang on Sloopy (Apr 20, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The reason for poverty among blacks who remain poor (most are working class or above) is the same reason that whites in poverty remain poor. It is due to having babies while still in one’s teens, without a husband, and often without completing high school as a result.
> 
> Anyone can break free of poverty by doing the following, at a minimum:
> 
> ...


45 pages.........LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Ohhh Lisa Lisa they don't know what to say


----------



## Hang on Sloopy (Apr 20, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> I thought you had me on ignore.
> 
> Jews aren't a race, they are a religion...   I don't despise you because of your genetics, I despise you because of your fucked up belief system.


I'll never ignore you pal. I am the patron saint of the Ignored here. Saint Sloop is my name


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> How nice for him
> 
> 
> I guess he isnt part of the 90% of blacks you think are racist


Correct.  He used his brain and contributed much to make the world a better place instead of being a step-and-fetch-it pawn for a political party.  He's worthy of our admiration much more than political pawns like many Blacks are.  You're proud of that.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Correct.  He used his brain and contributed much to make the world a better place instead of being a step-and-fetch-it pawn for a political party.  He's worthy of our admiration much more than political pawns like many Blacks are.  You're proud of that.


But the other 90% of blacks are the stupid racist ones.....right?


----------



## Hang on Sloopy (Apr 20, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> I thought you had me on ignore.
> 
> Jews aren't a race, they are a religion...   I don't despise you because of your genetics, I despise you because of your fucked up belief system.


I agree with the religion part. However, The people descended from Moses and his followers are ethnic Jews, and religious Jews. Hacidic would be closet. This is straight from the mouth of a Jewish acquaintance


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> And inheriting it


Perhaps a tenth of a percent of Americans inherit any significant amount of money.  And by the time they inherit it, they are in their fifties or sixties since parents now live into their eighties and nineties.  That's a bit late in life to be using it for wealth accumulation.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Perhaps a tenth of a percent of Americans inherit any significant amount of money.  And by the time they inherit it, they are in their fifties or sixties since parents now live into their eighties and nineties.  That's a bit late in life to be using it for wealth accumulation.


I await your evidence


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> The Native Americans sure wish they were racist. When people have been doing the same shit for over 500 years, it is a moral responsibility to be "racist". Denying a black man that, there can be nothing more anti black than that.
> 
> 
> Are 50% of white people racist as well? Nearly half of whites say a majority nonwhite population will weaken American culture


Most native Americans are doing just fine.  A minority still live on the reservations.  The study I've seen says less than 25%.  Most live in cities and are fully assimilated.


----------



## ThomasSowellsFro (Apr 20, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Most native Americans are doing just fine.  A minority still live on the reservations.  The study I've seen says less than 25%.  Most live in cities and are fully assimilated.


I'd love to see citations on that, but It wouldn't be that hard when there's only 2 left after they got genocided.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> "There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs-partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs."
> Booker T. Washington


The more things change, the more they stay the same.  Been dead a hundred and seven years as pegs people like IM2, Maryam and Paul to a T.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

Hang on Sloopy said:


> 45 pages.........LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
> 
> Ohhh Lisa Lisa they don't know what to say


Yeah…..they are protesting wildly to avoid acknowledging that not having babies one can’t afford and staying in school instead is the path out of poverty. It’s always someone else’s fault.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> I await your evidence


Talk to people.


Vegasgiants said:


> I await your evidence


Talk to people.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> I'd love to see citations on that, but It wouldn't be that hard when there's only 2 left after they got genocided.


Type what percentage of native Americans live on reservations into your favorite search engine and you will get your confirmation.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> I'd love to see citations on that, but It wouldn't be that hard when there's only 2 left after they got genocided.


There are an estimated FIVE MILLION full blooded Native Americans alive today, and probably fifty million or more partial bloods like me.  My great grandmother was a full blooded Comanche who married my great grandfather who was full blooded Black (not Celtish) Irish.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Type what percentage of native Americans live on reservations into your favorite search engine and you will get your confirmation.


Easy enough: the answer is 22%.





__





						American Indian/Alaska Native - The Office of Minority Health
					





					minorityhealth.hhs.gov


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> But the other 90% of blacks are the stupid racist ones.....right?


So you keep saying.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> So you keep saying.


Actually you said that


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> So you keep saying.


Do you ever notice how libs put words in your mouth when they’re losing an argument? Happens all the time.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Do you ever notice how libs put words in your mouth when they’re losing an argument? Happens all the time.


You misspelled cons


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> The more things change, the more they stay the same.  Been dead a hundred and seven years as pegs people like IM2, Maryam and Paul to a T.





Vegasgiants said:


> Actually you said that


So you keep saying.  Am I supposed to have a reaction to your unproven accusations?


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> You misspelled cons


You're a lame amateur.  Are you new at this?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> So you keep saying.  Am I supposed to have a reaction to your unproven accusations?


No.  I'll just keep correcting you though


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> You're a lame amateur.  Are you new at this?


Let's just call each other names.  Lol


----------



## monkrules (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> I'm good bro lol. The older I get, the more racially conservative I have become. I trust white and other non black people very little at this point. I used to subscribe to this Post Racial Theory nonsense white people have propagated, but You realize the elders were right all along.


Then, why do you torture yourself by remaining in a country built and filled with people you hate? It makes no sense. Why make yourself miserable, when it's so easy and so cheap to move to the heavenly African shithole of your choice?

I'm sure you'll call me "racist" for even touching that idea. But it's a serious question.

I've lived in a couple of neighborhoods that I hated for various reasons. But I didn't expect anyone to change to my liking. I saved a few bucks and found a place I liked better.

I agree that racism exists, and I really doubt it will EVER go away. But I also think every person should be free to live among people he feels most comfortable with. Most people seem to naturally gather in groups of people most like themselves.

The best, and possibly the simplest, solution to our racial animosities or disagreements may be total segregation. No one seems happy with our present situation. It's a waste of time and money to continue with the rioting, whining, thievery, high crime, and other never-ending bullshit.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> No.  I'll just keep correcting you though


You do that.  I figure you're gonna get frustrated after a while when you don't get the attention you're seeking.  I've dealt with hundreds of weak nasty trash like you over the years.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Let's just call each other names.  Lol


Okay, you pusillanimous putrid punk.  Go ahead and top that one.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> You do that.  I figure you're gonna get frustrated after a while when you don't get the attention you're seeking.  I've dealt with hundreds of weak nasty trash like you over the years.


That's it.  Just insult 


Avoid debate


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Okay, you pusillanimous putrid punk.  Go ahead and top that one.


Isnt this fun?


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> That's it.  Just insult
> 
> 
> Avoid debate


Debate?  You don't want to debate.  You want to present a false narrative.  Keep going.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Isnt this fun?


Sure.  You're weak.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Sure.  You're weak.


This is the you're a poopyhead thread.  Lol


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> This is the you're a poopyhead thread.  Lol


Pretty much.  Presentation of a false narrative by accusations of racism on your part.  Yaaaawwwwnnnn


----------



## monkrules (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> He refuses to cite actual data lol. Ok, man, but down blame woke people for not buying that argument.
> 
> 
> Nothing substantial other than the civil rights act, which, we forced white people to do. Everything else is pretty superficial. . 3/4 of whites hated King at the time of his death, they just had to kill em. If we're going to make substantial progress, we have to embrace woke doctrine and push policies that will, again, be considered cavalier to white people. I want to put trillions into more racism audits, and giving perpetrators millions in fines that go directly to the affected, and also impose jail sentences; make racism illegal and even punishable by the death penalty; give ADOS reparations; have black people establish some sort of Eugenics program to deal with problems of IQ that lie on the periphery as the cause of some black social ills. Then you can say we've made substantial progress.


Lord... that's fucking *hilarious.*

You've just given me the best laugh I've had in months. Gad!!! You're thick as a fucking rock.

Thanks again !!! 

Lol...


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Pretty much.  Presentation of a false narrative by accusations of racism on your part.  Yaaaawwwwnnnn


Uh nope


You're just embarrassed you got caught


----------



## monkrules (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> I'm woke but I am a proponent of IQ. It wouldn't be compulsive, though, just a think tank for and by black people.


Jeeze!!! You did again. You're the funniest guy on the planet ! Lol...Lol...

"Think tank....black people..." Bwahahaha... Lol...

Thanks again!!

You're fucking hilarious...


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Uh nope
> 
> 
> You're just embarrassed you got caught


Oh yeah.  LOL. You're new here.  Race hustlers like you don't last very long.  You're wasting your time.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Oh yeah.  LOL. You're new here.  Race hustlers like you don't last very long.  You're wasting your time.


Get em ranger


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> IQ can still be used in a white supremacist fashion, even if Jews and Asians score higher. If IQ showed that Blacks did better than whites when  it was first created, I have no doubt that the data would have been discarded.


Yeah, it's all one big right wing racist conspiracy, huh.  Funny.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Get em ranger


Already done.  You're just spinning your wheels and spraying mud now and everyone can see it.  Your game didn't last very long, did it.  You're probably from Political Hotwire.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 20, 2022)

Hang on Sloopy said:


> I agree with the religion part. However, The people descended from Moses and his followers are ethnic Jews, and religious Jews. Hacidic would be closet. This is straight from the mouth of a Jewish acquaintance



Yeah, here's the problem I have with that...  Those people vanished a long time ago.  

People like Lisa are Europeans who adopted a version of their religion, but they are still racially Europeans...  

Lisa trying to claim that blacks in this country shouldn't complain because bad things happened to Jews in other countries is just a bit silly.  Coming out on the losing end of a 2000 year argument about who an invisible sky fairy loves best is kind of your own  problem.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Already done.  You're just spinning your wheels and spraying mud now and everyone can see it.  Your game didn't last very long, did it.  You're probably from Political Hotwire.


Ya think?  Lol


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Okay, you pusillanimous putrid punk.  Go ahead and top that one.


I’ll top it! He’s a supercalifragilisticexplalidcous idiot!


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Yeah, here's the problem I have with that...  Those people vanished a long time ago.
> 
> People like Lisa are Europeans who adopted a version of their religion, but they are still racially Europeans...
> 
> Lisa trying to claim that blacks in this country shouldn't complain because bad things happened to Jews in other countries is just a bit silly.  Coming out on the losing end of a 2000 year argument about who an invisible sky fairy loves best is kind of your own  problem.


You have no argument when you claim there is no God.  The entire topic is a Spiritual battle between God and Satan.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Ya think?  Lol


So who are you at PH?  I've been banned there about 50 times.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> You have no argument when you claim there is no God.  The entire topic is a Spiritual battle between God and Satan.


I guess the antisemite made fun of Jews’ beliefs, amirite? And then went back to crying about the evils of prejudice - against blacks, that is - I’m sure.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I guess the antisemite made fun of Jews’ beliefs, amirite? And then went back to crying about the evils of prejudice - against blacks, that is - I’m sure.


More confused than a termite in a yoyo.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> So who are you at PH?  I've been banned there about 50 times.


I'm not there


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> You have no argument when you claim there is no God. The entire topic is a Spiritual battle between God and Satan.



Well, um, no.  

First, Satan is a relatively recent invention.  He really doesn't become a think in Judaism until the Second Temple Period.  Or modern image of Satan has more to do with Dante and Milton than anything in the Bible.  

Second, reading JUST the bible, I'm having a hard time figuring out which one of these two fictional characters is the bad guy.    God kills everyone in the world except for 8 people by the sixth chapter in the book.  He murders every first born child in Egypt.  He spends 40 years torturing his special people in the desert.  He orders his followers to genocide other people.  He killed David's baby because David committed adultery. 

Satan only killed 10 people, and that was on a bet with God.  






Lisa558 said:


> I guess the antisemite made fun of Jews’ beliefs, amirite? And the. He went back to ceying About the evils of prejudice against blacks.



Uh, actually the  Jews INVENTED racism.   Which is why I find it funny when you whine about being victims of it. 

Hey, when you brag about committing genocide against the Amalekites and Moabites and Ammonites, you  kind of endorsed genocide, right?


----------



## ThomasSowellsFro (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Yeah, it's all one big right wing racist conspiracy, huh.  Funny.


White people use it as pretense for their racialism.


----------



## ThomasSowellsFro (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Yeah, it's all one big right wing racist conspiracy, huh.  Funny.


Also, iq tests back then were most certainly culturally biased. It is only recently that they have been amended. So the argument of iq being conjured up for the benefit of white Racialism is an observable fact, not to mention its creator was an avowed white supremacist.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Well, um, no.
> 
> First, Satan is a relatively recent invention.  He really doesn't become a think in Judaism until the Second Temple Period.  Or modern image of Satan has more to do with Dante and Milton than anything in the Bible.
> 
> ...


Your argument is with God.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> White people use it as pretense for their racialism.


Yeah, White lefties.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> Also, iq tests back then were most certainly culturally biased. It is only recently that they have been amended. So the argument of iq being conjured up for the benefit of white Racialism is an observable fact, not to mention its creator was an avowed white supremacist.


So you believe that most White people are racist?


----------



## ThomasSowellsFro (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> So you believe that most White people are racist?


Of course


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> The first thing a Black person does when they can afford it is move out of their high crime Black neighborhood to a safer predominantly White neighborhood.  Even the Obama's did it, after using Black thugs like Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown for political reasons to stir racism.



Exactly.  Even BLM (Buy Lots of Mansions) spent all their money in elitist white neighborhoods.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2022)

IM2 said:


> The people who have been made dependent are whites.  That's why you support the current white nationalist party in America-THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.



And who did you support last presidential election?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> I can't vote for Republicans because of racism.



Then who did you vote for last presidential election, or didn't you vote at all?


----------



## Roadrunner76 (Apr 20, 2022)

The White Liberal / Leftists constantly push the VICTIM HOOD mentality on blacks.  This way, they are* never responsible for their own actions* and can perpetually blame white supremacy,  racism , sexism etc,,,,,,this way, they depend upon the Democrat party and keep voting for them.  The Left could care less if their strategies destroy the country because that is exactly what they are doing.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> Of course


You're an idiot.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 20, 2022)

Roadrunner76 said:


> The White Liberal / Leftists constantly push the VICTIM HOOD mentality on blacks.  This way, they are* never responsible for their own actions* and can perpetually blame white supremacy,  racism , sexism etc,,,,,,this way, they depend upon the Democrat party and keep voting for them.  The Left could care less if their strategies destroy the country because that is exactly what they are doing.


Yes, the goal of the left is to destroy everything.  They can't build their utopia until this country as we know it is destroyed.  Obama was the first Democrat to admit it.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> lol Absolutely not. I ain't got the time nor energy my dude. You buggin' tbh.
> 
> 
> SO basically he is saying that those names are not black but "poor black". This actually proves our point. Wtf is a poor black name vs a non poor black name. No, he is using that as a proxy for feelings about blacks in general. In other words, being black denotes inferiority and low class in his mind, not the name. So when he shows that study that shows people associate black names with inferiority, it proves the point even further. There is no "ghettoization" of black names. In those studies he cited, the "black" names are actually just white names, hence, employer thinks they're white, hence less discrimination. The names African Americans carried before the 80s were just white names. You're simply not going to convince me that there is a totally distinct set of African America names that denote high class compared to specifically African American names that denote low class. A perception of high class just means that black person has an ambiguous white name. Oh, and we still see these biases when the names are of Asian descent. That really does bunk this argument because Asians are unequivocally more successful than any other group in America.



They give comparisons to white names like Bubba.  They also point out that they used higher ages for the black applications than they did white.  Believe it or not, you will be much more likely to be called for an interview being younger than older.  Trust me, I'm an older white guy and experienced this first hand.  Healthcare insurance for a company can be over twice as high for an older employee than a younger one.  One company I worked for years ago, the employer called middle-aged applicants over young girls for office jobs.  Why?  Because younger girls tend to be single and will eventually marry up and have children which again, runs up healthcare insurance.  They will likely take much more time off of work for illness or school problems of their child.  Middle-aged women had teen children or adult children those women didn't have to worry about.

Will you get a better employee from a middle-class community than a lower class?  9 times out of 10, yes you will.  The apple usually doesn't fall far from the tree.  

Employers do have a favorite color though, and that color is green.  The employees that make the employer the most green are that employers favorite employees.


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter
*The first thing a Black person does when they can afford it is move out of their high crime Black neighborhood to a safer predominantly White neighborhood. Even the Obama's did it, after using Black thugs like Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown for political reasons to stir racism.*

It's not that rich blk people want to so badly live with white people

_*It's that finding prosperous suburbs in the USA with little to no white people living there is a tough task.*_

A rich black person could live around blks (_and many do_) the problem is they may find themselves limited to the poorest, most crowded areas of town because whites supremacist have created a system which ensures that those areas are the most poorest and most crowded areas of town.

Where as white supremaciats have created a system which makes sure that sizeable % of white people get access to those prosperous areas with the help of mortgage discrimination, redlining, zoning laws and so-called “_market forces_” pricing many blacks out of the certain housing markets


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2022)

Roadrunner76 said:


> The White Liberal / Leftists constantly push the VICTIM HOOD mentality on blacks.  This way, they are* never responsible for their own actions* and can perpetually blame white supremacy,  racism , sexism etc,,,,,,this way, they depend upon the Democrat party and keep voting for them.  The Left could care less if their strategies destroy the country because that is exactly what they are doing.



Many years ago an immediate family member of mine had fallen prey to alcoholism.  When we went to seek professional help, the first question they asked is if this person is aware they have a problem?  The theory being if the person doesn't think they have a problem, it's much harder to solve a problem that isn't there in their mind. 

If you want a solution to a problem, you have to be honest about the problem first.  So far from the black members on this topic, nothing is their fault.  Their plight was created and maintained by white people.  They did everything the right way and continue to do so.  Like my family member, it's nearly impossible to solve a problem they don't think exists.  

We can bring all the evidence we want to support our point, all the statistics, and it doesn't matter.  They will call our evidence bogus, state that the statistics are wrong, so nothing will ever change until the black community comes to the understanding that they (at least mostly) are responsible for their own problems.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> How do you account for other groups that outperform whites in IQ tests(jews, asians)? The test should be as unbiased an accurate as possible, but It would certainly still have biases by whatever group is creating them. I took one last week on Mensa, and it was just a bunk of shapes and patterns.


There has been a bunch of  scandals in recent years showing cheating by Asians and  you have the one in California where rich whites paid. So, I think the IQ thing has serious problems as it pertains to accuracy and far too many blacks have proven that meme of an IQ score isn't really true.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> BS Filter
> *The first thing a Black person does when they can afford it is move out of their high crime Black neighborhood to a safer predominantly White neighborhood. Even the Obama's did it, after using Black thugs like Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown for political reasons to stir racism.*
> 
> It's not that rich blk people want to so badly live with white people
> ...



Zoning laws are created to keep low income people out of an area regardless of race.  Red lining was used to insure the security of the loan.  Banks don't want to lend money in an area that has sinking property value.  Bank standards are written for all applicants.  It doesn't matter what race you are, you need X amount of good credit, X amount of money in a banking account, X job that provides you with X income.  Racial discrimination in banking (or just about anything in this country) is against the law, and participants in it can get sued out of business.  

If a black applicant doesn't meet loan or underwriters standards, they won't get a loan.  If a white person  doesn't meet banking or underwriters standards, they don't get the loan either.  The problem is not loaning discrimination, the problem is many blacks don't meet the loan standards they use for all people.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> "There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs-partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs."
> Booker T. Washington


And Booker T was wrong. He learned it the hard way by watching his neighborhood get burned down by whites.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> And who did you support last presidential election?


Not the white nationalist candidate trump.


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland
*Many years ago an immediate family member of mine had fallen prey to alcoholism. When we went to seek professional help, the first question they asked is if this person is aware they have a problem? The theory being if the person doesn't think they have a problem, it's much harder to solve a problem that isn't there in their mind.*

Right

Ray From Cleveland
*If you want a solution to a problem, you have to be honest about the problem first. *

Right.

Ray From Cleveland
*So far from the black members on this topic, nothing is their fault. *

You said that. Not me. Nor has any black USMB member said that. 

If I pushed you into a river and assuming you could not swim, you drown and died. Would it be right for me to say ?: _“He died because you never took any swimming classes.”_

Well yes I'd be right technically.  But that's a secondary circumstances. Knowing how to swim might have been a solution to your dilemma, once you was in the water, but NOT knowing how to swim was not the CAUSE of your dilemma. The cause was me who pushed you

_Think about it._

Ray From Cleveland
*Their plight was created and maintained by white people. They did everything the right way and continue to do so. *

Not white people. The white supremacists. You are focused on trying to get whites off the hook
.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Ray From Cleveland
> *Many years ago an immediate family member of mine had fallen prey to alcoholism. When we went to seek professional help, the first question they asked is if this person is aware they have a problem? The theory being if the person doesn't think they have a problem, it's much harder to solve a problem that isn't there in their mind.*
> 
> Right
> ...



So give me a quote from you or any other black participant here saying "yes, that is our fault."


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 20, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Not the white nationalist candidate trump.



Did you dream up this white nationalism shit?  Trump never said that.  He said he's a nationalist.  It's the Communists that lied about the white nationalist shit.  

nationalism​[ nash-uh-nl-iz-uhm, nash-nuh-liz-  ]
See synonyms for nationalism on Thesaurus.com



noun
spirit or aspirations common to the whole of a nation.
devotion and loyalty to one's own country; patriotism.
excessive patriotism; chauvinism.
the desire for national advancement or political independence.
the policy or doctrine of asserting the interests of one's own nation viewed as separate from the interests of other nations or the common interests of all nations.
an idiom or trait peculiar to a nation.









						Definition of nationalism | Dictionary.com
					

Nationalism definition, spirit or aspirations common to the whole of a nation. See more.




					www.dictionary.com


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So give me a quote from you or any other black participant here saying "yes, that is our fault."



Who is the one with that creates these all white labour unions ?
Who is the one with pouring drugs into black communties ?
Who is the one funnellin black people into the prison system ?
Who is the one cancelling blk ppl from getting the loans ?
Who is the one with sabotaging black businesses ?
Who is the one running freeways down in black communities like they did in Florida - Miami when they had prosperous black areas ?
Who is the one pouring guns into the black communities ?
Who is the one gentrifiying black areas ?
Who is the one writing books and trying to prove how stupid black ppl are ?
Who is the one allowing the proud boys and Aryan nation types in the police ?
Who is the one with trying to economical cripple black countries that have done nothing to you ?

Who are these phantoms that run amok and then run around like _"Hey stop blaming whitey. I dunno what to do"





_


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 20, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland
*Banks don't want to lend money in an area that has sinking property value. *

Yes they do if they want to gentrify it and move white people in there. All of sudden the banks money flows real quick.

Detroit is being bought out (Flipping houses) and New Orleans will probably no longer have black residents all together.

It’s happening all over the states and blk ppl keep getting pushed back further AND further away from our homes.

It’s happening in New York, New Jersey and now Detroit, Chicago, New Orleans, but I predicted this would happen. As soon as the area (Thanks to shotty politicians/police) is out of funding/resources….it is now the “Ghetto”.

And instead of trying to help stimulate the economics, they would rather it become a wasteland, so bad that most of the black residents are either dead in ground, locked up or bounced completely.

I don’t have a problem with whites moving into a predominant blk area, it’s just the fact that once they move in, they try to kick everyone else out and somehow the area is no longer “mixed” by tactics. Money being one of them.

Ray From Cleveland
*Bank standards are written for all applicants. It doesn't matter what race you are, you need X amount of good credit, X amount of money in a banking account, X job that provides you with X income. Racial discrimination in banking (or just about anything in this country) is against the law, and participants in it can get sued out of business.*

So how do you explain Wells Fargo have been falsifying blk people's credit histories for years to make black applicants look like risks and they have deliberately trying to ropes black borrowers (to whom they referred as “mud people”) into high-cost loans.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

Roadrunner76 said:


> The White Liberal / Leftists constantly push the VICTIM HOOD mentality on blacks.  This way, they are* never responsible for their own actions* and can perpetually blame white supremacy,  racism , sexism etc,,,,,,this way, they depend upon the Democrat party and keep voting for them.  The Left could care less if their strategies destroy the country because that is exactly what they are doing.


You must be mentally retarded.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> They give comparisons to white names like Bubba.  They also point out that they used higher ages for the black applications than they did white.  Believe it or not, you will be much more likely to be called for an interview being younger than older.  Trust me, I'm an older white guy and experienced this first hand.  Healthcare insurance for a company can be over twice as high for an older employee than a younger one.  One company I worked for years ago, the employer called middle-aged applicants over young girls for office jobs.  Why?  Because younger girls tend to be single and will eventually marry up and have children which again, runs up healthcare insurance.  They will likely take much more time off of work for illness or school problems of their child.  Middle-aged women had teen children or adult children those women didn't have to worry about.
> 
> Will you get a better employee from a middle-class community than a lower class?  9 times out of 10, yes you will.  The apple usually doesn't fall far from the tree.
> 
> Employers do have a favorite color though, and that color is green.  The employees that make the employer the most green are that employers favorite employees.


Bullshit. Your  boy Flash says differently.

_ “I can say for sure that happens because I did it. Before retirement, I was an Engineer. For the last 20 years of my career, I was a Manager and Director and I hired hundreds of people. I reviewed well over a thousand resumes for all kinds of positions. Everything from Secretaries to Engineering Managers. Both Salary and Hourly. I always culled out the resumes with Black Ethnic names. Never shortlisted anybody with a Black Ethnic name. Never hired them.”

 “Since the Fortune 50 company I worked for had a stupid "affirmative action" hiring policies I never mentioned it to anybody and I always got away with it. A couple of times I was instructed to improve my departmental “diversity" demographics but I always ignored it and never got into any trouble. My stereotype is that anybody with a stupid ghetto Black ethnic name is probably worthless. I could have been wrong a couple of times but I was also probably right 99% of the time.

Glad I did it. I would do it again.”_


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Did you dream up this white nationalism shit?  Trump never said that.  He said he's a nationalist.  It's the Communists that lied about the white nationalist shit.
> 
> nationalism​[ nash-uh-nl-iz-uhm, nash-nuh-liz-  ]
> See synonyms for nationalism on Thesaurus.com
> ...


Ray, you post pure old style jim crow racism in every post yet you think somebody is making something up. How much more delusional can you get?


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 21, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Your argument is with God.



No, my argument is with assholes who think their "God" entitles them to do awful stuff.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 21, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Bullshit. Your  boy Flash says differently.
> 
> _ “I can say for sure that happens because I did it. Before retirement, I was an Engineer. For the last 20 years of my career, I was a Manager and Director and I hired hundreds of people. I reviewed well over a thousand resumes for all kinds of positions. Everything from Secretaries to Engineering Managers. Both Salary and Hourly. I always culled out the resumes with Black Ethnic names. Never shortlisted anybody with a Black Ethnic name. Never hired them.”_
> 
> ...



Having read Flash's posts, do you really think someone as deranged as he is could be a manager?


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> When you decide to get into politics, especially on the federal level, you must expect to be called names.  If you didn't, you're in the wrong business.
> 
> Unless she has a membership here, it's not an insult to her because she has no idea I even exist yet alone what I say about her.  But I don't recall you lashing out when people attacked Trump or Bush's wife multiple times.  Hey......it's all part of politics in this country.


What were you just saying about going into the library and asking for the books written by excuse makers?


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> If you object to a woman being called a whore, then you should object to a woman being called a racist who merely pointed out that the blacks who remain mired in poverty (a minority….most are middle class) are so for the same reasons as are poor whites - having babies thet can’t afford while unmarried and dropping out of school - and not due to racism.
> 
> IOW, if you call people nasty names, then so can Ray,
> 
> You libs are such hypocrites.


Make up your mind, are you proud to be a racist or not?  If you're not proud to be a racist or don't think you are, why have you referred to black people as "Sambos" here in this thread, among other derogatory comments regarding black people.

Being called something you are, a racist, is not being called a nasty name.  A man calling a woman a whore is calling someone a nasty name.  

I can't do anything to prevent either one of you from engaging in your classless behaviors but I can speak out about it instead of just letting it pass.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> They give comparisons to white names like Bubba. They also point out that they used higher ages for the black applications than they did white. Believe it or not, you will be much more likely to be called for an interview being younger than older. Trust me, I'm an older white guy and experienced this first hand. Healthcare insurance for a company can be over twice as high for an older employee than a younger one. One company I worked for years ago, the employer called middle-aged applicants over young girls for office jobs. Why? Because younger girls tend to be single and will eventually marry up and have children which again, runs up healthcare insurance. They will likely take much more time off of work for illness or school problems of their child. Middle-aged women had teen children or adult children those women didn't have to worry about.
> 
> Will you get a better employee from a middle-class community than a lower class? 9 times out of 10, yes you will. The apple usually doesn't fall far from the tree.
> 
> Employers do have a favorite color though, and that color is green. The employees that make the employer the most green are that employers favorite employees.



Okay, let's find all the deranged lies by Welfare Ray above. 

No one names their kid "Bubba".  

Most of the studies used identical experiences and educations for the comparisons, the ONLY difference was white names like Greg and Emily vs. black names like Jamal and Lakeisha. 

Just because you are a lazy slug who never tried to get away from your bottom feeding employer, doesn't mean the rest of us aren't.  If anything, I've found it easier to get interviewed as I have gotten older because I have a wider array of experience. Now, About 15 years ago, I did start dying my hair, and I advise almost all my resume clients not to go back further than 15 years on their resume.  So age is largely irrelevant. 

The problem is, you use your last employer as an example.  An employer that was small, couldn't afford to give their employees insurance that met even the low standards of ACA, and according to you, eventually closed their doors before TRUMP PLAGUE hit.  

Employers can still be racist AND make money.  They can be non-racist and make money.   Frankly, if you aren't in sales, most employees don't really effect the bottom line that much.


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> And why is it do you think thst an entire race if people make bad choices


Because they keep doing the same things.


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> You dont think racism exists?


Sure.  Racism exists.  You don't think the problem has gotten better?


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> But racism against black people was especially bad as it was US policy for hundreds of years....right?


Actually slavery, racism, segregation, bigotry, etc. were Democratic institutions.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 21, 2022)

DBA said:


> Plenty of white people make bad decisions. Plenty of white people have had just has tough of challenges in life as black people.


True, white people just like everyone else have their challenges.  But the challenges they face are not due to their race.  Black people have the same challenges as white people *PLUS *the additional challenges caused by institutional racism.   Therefore whites in poverty versus blacks in poverty are not equally due to the same set of circumstances as Lisa so naively insists on believing and stating

Look at this, you don't think that this poses a problem for Black people trying to improve their living situation and rise out of poverty?:





I said


> NewsVine_Mariyam said:
> 
> Why are the people of Appalachia living in generational poverty? Why aren't you lecturing them



to which you replied "[they] are starting out a a lower economic point".  ALL black people in the U.S. started out at a lower social-economic point that white people because it was *MANDATED *by *U.S.* law.  



DBA said:


> That brings up a good point.  Those folks make bad decisions, but admittedly are starting out a a lower economic point than many and in fact, may have it harder than many black people in a similar economic situations because they do not qualify for AA.  Instead of race and gender based, maybe AA should be economic based. That make more sense than the current system.  If you believe poverty is the underlying cause of the problems.  I am not a fan of AA in general, but I could be more on board if it was not blatantly racist and sexist.


A violation of the affirmative action laws is essentially a violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and all of it's addendums.  The agency that oversees and investigates these violations is the EEOC.  The second 'E' in the acronym stands for 'employment' so it has nothing to do with awarding anything and it is neither sexist or racist because the thing you all keep overlooking is that the 'O' stands for 'opportunity'.  Affirmative action doesn't give anyone anything especially not black people, other than an '*E*qual *E*mployment *O*pportunity...' so the people of Appalachia are NOT excluded.  They have the same rights to Equal Employment Opportunities as all the rest of us.

White people in general are not being discriminated against, they're just no longer being favored 100% and some 50 odd years later, AFTER this law went into effect society is finally, FINALLY starting to change.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Yes, the goal of the left is to destroy everything.  They can't build their utopia until this country as we know it is destroyed.  Obama was the first Democrat to admit it.


Absolutely. That is what Obama meant by “transforming America.” All one has to do is read the writings of American-hating leftist radicals like Alinsky in which they say that the country has to be destroyed in order to build it back as a socialist country.

There is no other valid explanation as to why a U.S. President would reverse the previous one’s stay-in-Mexico policy for the illegals - DURING COVID YET, and without requiring tests or vaccinations! - and import millions of poor, unskilled, semi-literate, uneducated, and often criminal foreigners who will be a burden to taxpayers and then within a year or less, give birth to anchor babies to put even more of strain on the system.

The Left, using a demented old man as their puppet, are working to bring down America.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Many years ago an immediate family member of mine had fallen prey to alcoholism.  When we went to seek professional help, the first question they asked is if this person is aware they have a problem?  The theory being if the person doesn't think they have a problem, it's much harder to solve a problem that isn't there in their mind.
> 
> If you want a solution to a problem, you have to be honest about the problem first.  So far from the black members on this topic, nothing is their fault.  Their plight was created and maintained by white people.  They did everything the right way and continue to do so.  Like my family member, it's nearly impossible to solve a problem they don't think exists.
> 
> We can bring all the evidence we want to support our point, all the statistics, and it doesn't matter.  They will call our evidence bogus, state that the statistics are wrong, so nothing will ever change until the black community comes to the understanding that they (at least mostly) are responsible for their own problems.


So true. And when you have a black supremacist like Paul, who blames  white supremacists for the core reasons blacks are poor (of those that still are)  - 1) having babies as teens when they can’t afford them, ans 2) dropping out of school - he and those like him will never get better.


----------



## Turtlesoup (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> True, white people just like everyone else have their challenges.  But the challenges they face are not due to their race.  Black people have the same challenges as white people *PLUS *the additional challenges caused by institutional racism.   Therefore whites in poverty versus blacks in poverty are not equally due to the same set of circumstances as Lisa so naively insists on believing and stating
> 
> Look at this, you don't think that this poses a problem for Black people trying to improve their living situation and rise out of poverty?:
> View attachment 633960
> ...


There is discrimination nowadays----called affirmative actions and hiring quotas for blacks.   Whites and asians are the ones discriminated against---


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Make up your mind, are you proud to be a racist or not?  If you're not proud to be a racist or don't think you are, why have you referred to black people as "Sambos" here in this thread, among other derogatory comments regarding black people.
> 
> Being called something you are, a racist, is not being called a nasty name.  A man calling a woman a whore is calling someone a nasty name.
> 
> I can't do anything to prevent either one of you from engaging in your classless behaviors but I can speak out about it instead of just letting it pass.


How many times have I had to explain the same thing? I’ve used that name as a parallel to the leftists who use a WHITE woman’s name to describe bad attitudes and behavior. The name was suggested to me by another poster (who has come on the thread to explain why) because I never would have thought of it myself.

And no, I am not a racist, but that’s what you leftists call people to slam shut a debate you can’t win. I am no more a racist than Harris is a whore (actually, she’s closer to a whore than I am a racist), and if you object to the idiotic Affirmative Action VP being called a whore, you need to stop calling me a racist.

To bring this back to the topic of discussion - since the leftists try to derail it with racist!, racist! - is:

THE REASON A SUBGROUP OF BLACKS REMAIN IN POVERTY IS NOT DUE TO RACISM,  BUT TO TWO BEHAVIORS: 1) Babies out of wedlock, and 2) dropping out of school. They could solve 95% of their problems in that sub-community be reversing those two things.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Absolutely. That is what Obama meant by “transforming America.” And one has to do is read the writings of American-hating leftist radicals like Alinsky in which they say that the country has to be destroyed in order to build it back as a socialist country.
> 
> There is no other valid explanation as to why a U.S. President would reverse the previous one’s stay-in-Mexico policy for the illegals - DURING COVID YET, and without requiring tests or vaccinations! - and import millions of poor, unskilled, semi-literate, uneducated, and often criminal foreigners who will be a burden to taxpayers and then within a year or less, give birth to anchor babies to put even more of strain on the system.



I am betting some WASP in the last century said the same thing about all the  Jews coming over from Europe.  

you know, Criminal Foreigners like Meier Lansky and Bugsy Seigel  

The reality is, we have an influx of immigrants because we have a labor shortage in crappy jobs Americans (even blacks) don't want to do. 



Lisa558 said:


> So true. And when you have a black supremacist like Paul, who blames white supremacists for the core reasons blacks are poor (of those that still are) - 1) having babies as teens when they can’t afford them, ans 2) dropping out of school - he and those like him will never get better.



The problem is, when a black kid avoids dropping out of school and avoids making a baby, you STILL want to deny them admittance to elite colleges because they got a slightly lower test score than a privileged white kid.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> How many times have I had to explain the same thing? I’ve used that name as a parallel to the leftists who use a WHITE woman’s name to describe bad attitudes and behavior. The name was suggested to me by another poster (who has come on the thread to explain why) because I never would have thought of it myself.
> 
> And no, I am not a racist, but that’s what you leftists call people to slam shut a debate you can’t win. I am no more a racist than Harris is a whore (actually, she’s closer to a whore than I am a racist), and if you object to the idiotic Affirmative Action VP being called a whore, you need to stop calling me a racist.



We'll stop calling you a racist when you stop acting like a racist.  



Lisa558 said:


> THE REASON A SUBGROUP OF BLACKS REMAIN IN POVERTY IS NOT DUE TO RACISM, BUT TO TWO BEHAVIORS: 1) Babies out of wedlock, and 2) dropping out of school. They could solve 95% of their problems in that sub-community be reversing those two things.



Except teen births are only a third of what they were 50 years ago, so, no.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> True, white people just like everyone else have their challenges.  But the challenges they face are not due to their race.  Black people have the same challenges as white people *PLUS *the additional challenges caused by institutional racism.   Therefore whites in poverty versus blacks in poverty are not equally due to the same set of circumstances as Lisa so naively insists on believing and stating
> 
> Look at this, you don't think that this poses a problem for Black people trying to improve their living situation and rise out of poverty?:
> View attachment 633960
> ...


You’re still doing it! We all know there was horrible racism long ago. That’s been over for generations. 

And man, are you the poster child for denial, or what? You’re claiming Affirmative Action doesn’t give anything to black people? Work in the higher education admissions field during peak time, and see the extent to which whites with high grades and scores are rejected to make room with blacks with substantially lower grades and scores. (I’m sure you’d be delighted.)

And you’re going to claim we are finally af a point where blacks aren’t being excluded? NO. We are at a point where half the brainwashed voters think there is nothing wrong with a president announcing, prior to his selection for the most prestigious jobs in the country, that WHITES WILL BE EXCLUDED.

The difference between conservatives like me and leftists like you is:

1) Me: We should be race-blind when it comes to policies and decisions, be it picking a SCOTUS nominee or selecting which students to admit to Harvard

2) You: We should use race as the determining factor in whom to include, as long as we are excluding only whites


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 21, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> BS Filter
> *The first thing a Black person does when they can afford it is move out of their high crime Black neighborhood to a safer predominantly White neighborhood. Even the Obama's did it, after using Black thugs like Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown for political reasons to stir racism.*
> 
> It's not that rich blk people want to so badly live with white people
> ...


Bullshit.  Everyone, Black, White, Asian, etc, can live anywhere they can afford to live.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> And inheriting it





AZrailwhale said:


> And you get money by earning it, living beneath your means and saving.


Oh really?  That's the only legal way to get money?


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 21, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> No, my argument is with assholes who think their "God" entitles them to do awful stuff.


Reality.  When you shoot rockets into my yard, don't be surprised when I drop a bomb on your garage.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

Turtlesoup said:


> There is discrimination nowadays----called affirmative actions and hiring quotas for blacks.   Whites and asians are the ones discriminated against---


Asians have it the worst because they are the ones who are getting the best grades and scores, and thus they have a target on their back as leftists figure out a way to exclude them from being admitted to prestigious programs. That’s what the SCOTUS case is all about: whether it is fair for Harvard to have designed a “personality test” with questions they could score blacks higher on and Asians lower, and then rejected Asians on the grounds they were unlikeable.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 21, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> No I don't.  Racism hurts the racist far more than it hurts the "victim".


I don't agree, most of the ones I've encountered are ignorant beyond belief.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 21, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> I am betting some WASP in the last century said the same thing about all the  Jews coming over from Europe.
> 
> you know, Criminal Foreigners like Meier Lansky and Bugsy Seigel
> 
> ...


Bullshit.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Oh really?  That's the only legal way to get money?


What other way is there?

 And don’t say white people inherit it. The vast, VAST majority of whites inherit nothing, or next to nothing, and for the slim majority of whites who did inherit, they did so when they were in their 60s - after working for 40 years, living within their means, and saving for retirement.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> So true. And when you have a black supremacist like Paul, who blames  white supremacists for the core reasons blacks are poor (of those that still are)  - 1) having babies as teens when they can’t afford them, ans 2) dropping out of school - he and those like him will never get better.



I could care less what they believe as long as they stop their crying and demanding change from everybody else, and as long as they quit invading white areas.  There are just some people that refuse to acknowledge their own faults.  I hear it all the time on my scanner.  When there's a shooting or a physical attack, the police tell dispatch nobody will cooperate with them.  Hey, if that's the environment you want to live in, fine by me, as long as you don't bring it to where I live which they have.  

That being said, blacks will continue to have the problems they have today in 50 years from now because they are not solving their own problems. They blame whitie instead who isn't the problem.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Oh really?  That's the only legal way to get money?



Not at all.  There are investments as well.  But you have to study investing and quit going to sports sites to learn about it.  It's risky and may require a lot of sacrifices like not having children or the latest smart phone, but outside of hitting a lottery game, the best chance at earning wealth.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Not at all.  There are investments as well.  But you have to study investing and quit going to sports sites to learn about it.  It's risky and may require a lot of sacrifices like not having children or the latest smart phone, but outside of hitting a lottery game, the best chance at earning wealth.


I think her ignorant and misguided implication was that whitey inherited millions from generations of family wealth-building. hah!


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Actually slavery, racism, segregation, bigotry, etc. were Democratic institutions.


That's nice


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> That's nice


There are 13 Congressional Volumes which detail how the KKK was formed as the terrorist wing of the Democratic Party for the express purpose of taking back their statehouses from BLACK REPUBLICANS through force and intimidation.

Full text of "Report of the Joint select committee appointed to inquire in to the condition of affairs in the late insurrectionary states : so far as regards the execution of the laws, and the safety of the lives and property of the citizens of the United States and Testimony taken"

Black political participation in Reconstruction | The Gilder Lehrman Institute of American History


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> There are 13 Congressional Volumes which detail how the KKK was formed as the terrorist wing of the Democratic Party for the express purpose of taking back their statehouses from BLACK REPUBLICANS through force and intimidation.
> 
> Full text of "Report of the Joint select committee appointed to inquire in to the condition of affairs in the late insurrectionary states : so far as regards the execution of the laws, and the safety of the lives and property of the citizens of the United States and Testimony taken"
> 
> Black political participation in Reconstruction | The Gilder Lehrman Institute of American History


So what?  They changed so much 90% of black people now vote Democrat


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I could care less what they believe as long as they stop their crying and demanding change from everybody else, and as long as they quit invading white areas.  There are just some people that refuse to acknowledge their own faults.  I hear it all the time on my scanner.  When there's a shooting or a physical attack, the police tell dispatch nobody will cooperate with them.  Hey, if that's the environment you want to live in, fine by me, as long as you don't bring it to where I live which they have.
> 
> That being said, blacks will continue to have the problems they have today in 50 years from now because they are not solving their own problems. They blame whitie instead who isn't the problem.


The problem is that what they believe - wrongly - is being translated into racist policies against whites.

And this whole thing kicked into high gear after Floyd was killed, and it HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE! (If it were, it would have been brought up on trial.) Nope, the Marxists who formed BLM used it as an excuse to reign down terror and chaos nationwide, and get blacks and their enabling whites to think they’re oppressed victims and bring about the anti-white sentiment we see today.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> What were you just saying about going into the library and asking for the books written by excuse makers?



What does that have to do with my comment?  I'm merely pointing out your hypocrisy.  First ladies get criticized all the time.  This is the first female VP but if we had others, they would be facing the same thing by the left, and no problem for you I guarantee.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Ray, you post pure old style jim crow racism in every post yet you think somebody is making something up. How much more delusional can you get?



Yeah, it's racist to ask a blogger to post evidence of their claim.  Furthermore to point out it was promoted bullshit by their party.


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> So what?  They changed so much 90% of black people now vote Democrat


Because they would have been lynched if they didn't.  

"Blacks made up the overwhelming majority of southern Republican voters, forming a coalition with “carpetbaggers” and “scalawags” (derogatory terms referring to recent arrivals from the North and southern white Republicans, respectively). A total of 265 African-American delegates were elected, more than 100 of whom had been born into slavery. Almost half of the elected black delegates served in South Carolina and Louisiana, where blacks had the longest history of political organization; in most other states, African Americans were underrepresented compared to their population. In all, 16 African Americans served in the U.S. Congress during Reconstruction; more than 600 more were elected to the state legislatures, and hundreds more held local offices across the South."

Articles: The Secret Racist History of the Democratic Party


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Because they would have been lynched if they didn't.
> 
> "Blacks made up the overwhelming majority of southern Republican voters, forming a coalition with “carpetbaggers” and “scalawags” (derogatory terms referring to recent arrivals from the North and southern white Republicans, respectively). A total of 265 African-American delegates were elected, more than 100 of whom had been born into slavery. Almost half of the elected black delegates served in South Carolina and Louisiana, where blacks had the longest history of political organization; in most other states, African Americans were underrepresented compared to their population. In all, 16 African Americans served in the U.S. Congress during Reconstruction; more than 600 more were elected to the state legislatures, and hundreds more held local offices across the South."
> 
> Articles: The Secret Racist History of the Democratic Party


Today?  Lynched?


HAHAHAHAHA 


HAHAHAHAHA 


HAHAHAHAHA


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Bullshit. Your  boy Flash says differently.
> 
> _ “I can say for sure that happens because I did it. Before retirement, I was an Engineer. For the last 20 years of my career, I was a Manager and Director and I hired hundreds of people. I reviewed well over a thousand resumes for all kinds of positions. Everything from Secretaries to Engineering Managers. Both Salary and Hourly. I always culled out the resumes with Black Ethnic names. Never shortlisted anybody with a Black Ethnic name. Never hired them.”_
> 
> ...



So take that issue up with him--not me.


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Today?  Lynched?
> 
> 
> HAHAHAHAHA
> ...


"In almost every Southern state, the Republican Party was actually formed by blacks, not whites. Case in point is Houston, Texas, where 150 blacks and 20 whites created the Republican Party of Texas. But perhaps most telling of all with respect to the Republican Party’s achievements is that black men were continuously elected to public office. For example, 42 blacks were elected to the Texas legislature, 112 in Mississippi, 190 in South Carolina, 95 representatives and 32 senators in Louisiana, and many more elected in other states -- all Republican. Democrats didn’t elect their first black American to the U.S. House until 1935!"

"By the mid-1860s, the Republican Party’s alliance with blacks had caused a noticeable strain on the Democrats’ struggle for electoral significance in the post-Civil War era. This prompted the Democratic Party in 1866 to develop a new pseudo-secret political action group whose sole purpose was to help gain control of the electorate. The new group was known simply by their initials, KKK (Ku Klux Klan). This political relationship was nationally solidified shortly thereafter during the 1868 Democratic National Convention when former Civil War General Nathan Bedford Forrest was honored as the KKK’s first Grand Wizard. But don’t bother checking the Democratic National Committee’s website for proof. For many years, even up through the 2012 Presidential Election, the DNC had omitted all related history from 1848 to 1900 from their timeline -- half a century worth! Nevertheless, this sordid history is still well documented. There’s even a thirteen-volume set of Congressional investigations dating from 1872 detailing the Klan’s connection to the Democratic Party. The official documents, titled Report of the Joint Select Committee to Inquire Into the Condition of Affairs in the Late Insurrectionary States, irrefutably proves the KKK’s prominent role in the Democratic Party."


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> What does that have to do with my comment?  I'm merely pointing out your hypocrisy.  First ladies get criticized all the time.  This is the first female VP but if we had others, they would be facing the same thing by the left, and no problem for you I guarantee.


And that’s another problem. The leftists will screech “RAAAACIST” at any American who dares criticize her decisions and actions once she takes over from Dementia.

The Marxists are clever. That’s the way they plan to shut up American patriots who object to the takedown: install a black, so that when she institutes anti-American policies, anyone speaking against her will be shut up - and dissent silenced - by screeching racist.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> "In almost every Southern state, the Republican Party was actually formed by blacks, not whites. Case in point is Houston, Texas, where 150 blacks and 20 whites created the Republican Party of Texas. But perhaps most telling of all with respect to the Republican Party’s achievements is that black men were continuously elected to public office. For example, 42 blacks were elected to the Texas legislature, 112 in Mississippi, 190 in South Carolina, 95 representatives and 32 senators in Louisiana, and many more elected in other states -- all Republican. Democrats didn’t elect their first black American to the U.S. House until 1935!"
> 
> "By the mid-1860s, the Republican Party’s alliance with blacks had caused a noticeable strain on the Democrats’ struggle for electoral significance in the post-Civil War era. This prompted the Democratic Party in 1866 to develop a new pseudo-secret political action group whose sole purpose was to help gain control of the electorate. The new group was known simply by their initials, KKK (Ku Klux Klan). This political relationship was nationally solidified shortly thereafter during the 1868 Democratic National Convention when former Civil War General Nathan Bedford Forrest was honored as the KKK’s first Grand Wizard. But don’t bother checking the Democratic National Committee’s website for proof. For many years, even up through the 2012 Presidential Election, the DNC had omitted all related history from 1848 to 1900 from their timeline -- half a century worth! Nevertheless, this sordid history is still well documented. There’s even a thirteen-volume set of Congressional investigations dating from 1872 detailing the Klan’s connection to the Democratic Party. The official documents, titled Report of the Joint Select Committee to Inquire Into the Condition of Affairs in the Late Insurrectionary States, irrefutably proves the KKK’s prominent role in the Democratic Party."


Newsflash its 2022 and black people CHOOSE to vote Democrat


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Newsflash its 2022 and black people CHOOSE to vote Democrat


Yeah because if they didn't in the past they would have been lynched.

September 3, 1868

25 African-Americans in the Georgia legislature, all Republicans, were expelled by the Democrat majority. They were later reinstated by a Republican-controlled Congress.

September 12, 1868

Civil rights activist Tunis Campbell and all other African-Americans in the Georgia Senate – all Republicans – were expelled by the Democrat majority. They were later be reinstated by a Republican-controlled Congress.

October 7, 1868

Republicans denounce the Democratic Party’s national campaign theme: “This is a white man’s country: Let white men rule”.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Newsflash its 2022 and black people CHOOSE to vote Democrat


And when a Black person votes Republican you deranged jackals call them an "Uncle Tom" or a "Sellout".


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Yeah because if they didn't in the past they would have been lynched.
> 
> September 3, 1868
> 
> ...


Uh.....its 2022.  Lol


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> And when a Black person votes Republican you deranged jackals call them an "Uncle Tom" or a "Sellout".


Uh.....nope


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Uh.....its 2022.  Lol


I know.  Back in...

October 22, 1868

While campaigning for re-election, U.S. Rep. James Hinds (R-AR) is assassinated by Democrat terrorists who were organized as the Ku Klux Klan.

December 10, 1869

Republican Gov. John Campbell of Wyoming Territory signs First-in-nation law granting women the right to vote and to hold public office.

February 3, 1870

After passing the U.S. House of Representatives with 98% Republican support and 97% Democrat opposition, the Republicans’ 15th Amendment is ratified, which granted the right to vote to all Americans regardless of race.

May 31, 1870

President Ulysses S. Grant signs the Republicans’ Enforcement Act, providing stiff penalties for depriving civil rights to any Americans.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> I know.  Back in...
> 
> October 22, 1868
> 
> ...


Yeah but back in 1300 AD......



HAHAHAHAHA 


HAHAHAHAHA 


HAHAHAHAHA


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> And when a Black person votes Republican you deranged jackals call them an "Uncle Tom" or a "Sellout".


Yeah…..the leftists show their stripes when they are faced with a black who won’t submit to their harmful agenda. Remember that ledtist protesting at a BLM riot who called the black cop the n word?

Same thing happens with the Jews. You should hear the contempt with which they speak of Jews who vote Republican.


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Yeah but back in 1300 AD......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm enjoying it. I hope you are too 

June 22, 1870

The Republican-controlled Congress creates the U.S. Department of Justice to safeguard the civil rights of African-Americans against Democrats in the South.

September 6, 1870

Women vote in Wyoming during the first election after women’s suffrage legislation was signed into law by Republican Gov. John Campbell.

February 28, 1871

Republican Congress passes Enforcement Act providing federal protection for African-American voters.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> I'm enjoying it. I hope you are too
> 
> June 22, 1870
> 
> ...


Ok


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Ok


We aren't done yet though....

April 20, 1871

The Republican-controlled Congress enacts the Ku Klux Klan Act, outlawing Democratic Party-affiliated terrorist groups which oppressed African-Americans.

October 10, 1871

Following warnings by Philadelphia Democrats against blacks voting, African-American Republican civil rights activist Octavius Catto was murdered by a Democratic Party operative, and his military funeral was attended by thousands.

October 18, 1871

After violence was committed against Republicans in South Carolina, Republican President Ulysses S. Grant deploys U.S. troops to combat Democrat terrorists who formed the Ku Klux Klan.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> We aren't done yet though....
> 
> April 20, 1871
> 
> ...


Keep it coming


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> We can bring all the evidence we want to support our point, all the statistics, and it doesn't matter. They will call our evidence bogus, state that the statistics are wrong, so nothing will ever change until the black community comes to the understanding that they (at least mostly) are responsible for their own problems.


I've never seen a bigger pile of crap in my life.  You don't HAVE any evidence.

White racism is the root cause of many of the ills of the black race yet IN SPITE of living in a country that was founded by white supremacists and living under the yoke of white supremacist law, the remnants of America's own version of apartheid that still remain TODAY, we endure.

It has not escaped my attention that you all want to focus on the most disadvantaged members of the black race when you have so many more of them of your own.  But you never want to talk about *successful *black people or any of the things any of them have accomplished.  Why is that?  Does the fact that we exist make  you so damn uncomfortable that the only way you can combat your feelings of unease is to constantly unleash a barrage of insanity in the form of racist falsehoods you continuously peddle?


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Keep it coming


Ok...

November 18, 1872

Susan B. Anthony arrested for voting, after boasting to Elizabeth Cady Stanton that she voted for “the Republican ticket, straight”.

January 17, 1874

Armed Democrats seize the Texas state government, ending Republican efforts to racially integrate the Texas government.

September 14, 1874

Democrat white supremacists seize Louisiana statehouse in attempt to overthrow the racially-integrated administration of Republican Governor William Kellogg. 27 people were killed.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Ok...
> 
> November 18, 1872
> 
> ...


More!!!!!!!!


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> More!!!!!!!!


Ok....

March 1, 1875

The Civil Rights Act of 1875, guaranteeing access to public accommodations without regard to race, was signed by Republican President Ulysses S. Grant. The law passed with 92% Republican support over 100% Democrat opposition.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Ok....
> 
> March 1, 1875
> 
> The Civil Rights Act of 1875, guaranteeing access to public accommodations without regard to race, was signed by Republican President Ulysses S. Grant. The law passed with 92% Republican support over 100% Democrat opposition.


Blacks vote 90% Democrat  TODAY


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Zoning laws are created to keep low income people out of an area regardless of race.  Red lining was used to insure the security of the loan.  Banks don't want to lend money in an area that has sinking property value.  Bank standards are written for all applicants.  It doesn't matter what race you are, you need X amount of good credit, X amount of money in a banking account, X job that provides you with X income.  Racial discrimination in banking (or just about anything in this country) is against the law, and participants in it can get sued out of business.
> 
> If a black applicant doesn't meet loan or underwriters standards, they won't get a loan.  If a white person  doesn't meet banking or underwriters standards, they don't get the loan either.  The problem is not loaning discrimination, the problem is many blacks don't meet the loan standards they use for all people.


You've very naive.  You remember the Wells Fargo scandal from about 10 years ago.  I think the only person who got any money of it was one of the employee who was committing the wrongdoing.  He got more than a million but the customers got screwed.

I'm a database back-end developer so I see a lot of data - I've worked for several mortgage companies and the whole subprime market was created to make more money off of poorer people.  Black people have traditionally been assumed to be poor risks so the financial institutions charge black people more, however when you're poor everything costs you more.  It really seems backwards, just like when in the more affluent areas the price of gas is a lot lower than in the poorer neighborhoods.

Look it up, this is United States history.


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Blacks vote 90% Democrat  TODAY


Yeah... because back in the day if they didn't they would be lynched.

"Black men participated in Georgia politics for the first time during Congressional Reconstruction (1867-76). Between 1867 and 1872 sixty-nine African Americans served as delegates to the constitutional convention (1867-68) or as members of the state legislature.

Democrats used terror, intimidation, and the Ku Klux Klan to "redeem" the state. One quarter of the black legislators were killed, threatened, beaten, or jailed. In the December 1870 elections the Democrats won an overwhelming victory. In 1906 W. H. Rogers from McIntosh County was the last black legislator to be elected before blacks were legally disenfranchised in 1908."


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Yeah... because back in the day if they didn't they would be lynched.
> 
> "Black men participated in Georgia politics for the first time during Congressional Reconstruction (1867-76). Between 1867 and 1872 sixty-nine African Americans served as delegates to the constitutional convention (1867-68) or as members of the state legislature.
> 
> Democrats used terror, intimidation, and the Ku Klux Klan to "redeem" the state. One quarter of the black legislators were killed, threatened, beaten, or jailed. In the December 1870 elections the Democrats won an overwhelming victory. In 1906 W. H. Rogers from McIntosh County was the last black legislator to be elected before blacks were legally disenfranchised in 1908."


But they arent lynched today....right?


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> But they arent lynched today....right?


Exactly because Republicans stopped the evil Democrats from doing it.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Exactly because Republicans stopped the evil Democrats from doing it.


Good.

Now blacks vote Democrat by choice


Thanks


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> I've never seen a bigger pile of crap in my life.  You don't HAVE any evidence.
> 
> White racism is the root cause of many of the ills of the black race yet IN SPITE of living in a country that was founded by white supremacists and living under the yoke of white supremacist law, the remnants of America's own version of apartheid that still remain TODAY, we endure.
> 
> It has not escaped my attention that you all want to focus on the most disadvantaged members of the black race when you have so many more of them of your own.  But you never want to talk about *successful *black people or any of the things any of them have accomplished.  Why is that?  Does the fact that we exist make  you so damn uncomfortable that the only way you can combat your feelings of unease is to constantly unleash a barrage of insanity in the form of racist falsehoods you continuously peddle?


You’re a big part of the problem.

The fact that you want to keep blaming long-ago outlawed racism* for the fact that a subgroup of blacks keep having OOW babies and dropping out of school - thus almost guaranteeing themselves a lifetime of financial struggle - is keeping them poor.


* I mean, really? As part of your argument upthread, you posted an ad from the early 19th century about slavery?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Ray From Cleveland
> *Banks don't want to lend money in an area that has sinking property value. *
> 
> Yes they do if they want to gentrify it and move white people in there. All of sudden the banks money flows real quick.
> ...



You have to love the NYT.  All their controversial stories are from "anonymous" sources.  No names, no evidence, just based on what they said. 

But I will point out a few things in this likely bogus article: 

First off it compares equal income between blacks and whites and how blacks usually got the subprime loans.  Anybody that knows anything about lending practices understands it's much more than income where the decision is made.  It's also things like how long you worked at your job, past bankruptcies, past home ownership, credit history and so on.  In fact credit history is looked on more importantly than income.  

When I bought my place I had A-1 credit.  I had a job and thriving career ahead of me.  The banks didn't want to give this white boy a loan.  Why?  Because it's rental property, and rental property is frowned upon by banks.  Landlords were renown for buying rental properties and letting them go to hell as long as they can keep an income going.  In order to get the loans, I had to come up with 30% down, had my father cosign the loan, and the only thing I could get was an ARM.  Of course after a year they allowed me to remortgage so I had a fixed rate, but what your article describes happens to white people with risk issues as well.  

If there was anything illegal about their loan practices, why didn't anybody file a suit against the company?  Seems to me from your article it was an open and shut case.  I'll tell you why, because they were doing nothing illegal or racially discriminatory.  

All banks use a point system.  You get X amount of points for credit history, X amount of points for income, X amount of points for timely payments and so on.  You and I apply for a credit card.  The first thing they do is run your credit score.  You make $5,000 a year more than I do, yet all they will offer you is a card with 9% APR, and me 0% APR.  Is it because you are black and I'm white?  No, it's because my credit score is 750 and yours is 575.  Try it yourself.  There are companies that will run your credit score for free; I forget the name of them now.  Or your bank will do that as well at no charge


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> How many times have I had to explain the same thing? I’ve used that name as a parallel to the leftists who use a WHITE woman’s name to describe bad attitudes and behavior. The name was suggested to me by another poster (who has come on the thread to explain why) because I never would have thought of it myself.
> 
> And no, I am not a racist, but that’s what you leftists call people to slam shut a debate you can’t win. I am no more a racist than Harris is a whore (actually, she’s closer to a whore than I am a racist), and if you object to the idiotic Affirmative Action VP being called a whore, you need to stop calling me a racist.
> 
> ...


Now it's


Turtlesoup said:


> There is discrimination nowadays----called affirmative actions and hiring quotas for blacks.   Whites and asians are the ones discriminated against---


You're not being discriminated against, you're just not being favored as much as you have been in the past.  And hiring quotas are not legal except as sanctions (part of a settlement agreement) for having been found to have violated the Civil Rights Act.  They're instituted in order to bring the workforce into alignment with the community when the company has refused to hire eligible minority or female applicants.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> You've very naive.  You remember the Wells Fargo scandal from about 10 years ago.  I think the only person who got any money of it was one of the employee who was committing the wrongdoing.  He got more than a million but the customers got screwed.
> 
> I'm a database back-end developer so I see a lot of data - I've worked for several mortgage companies and the whole subprime market was created to make more money off of poorer people.  Black people have traditionally been assumed to be poor risks so the financial institutions charge black people more, however when you're poor everything costs you more.  It really seems backwards, just like when in the more affluent areas the price of gas is a lot lower than in the poorer neighborhoods.
> 
> Look it up, this is United States history.


The whole subprime mortgage industry was created by Democrats who, in the search for “equity,” demanded that banks lend money to blacks who wouldn’t qualify under the normal requirements so they could own houses at a rate equivalent to white people.

This is what happens when you demand ”equal outcomes” without qualifications.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Who is the one with that creates these all white labour unions ?
> Who is the one with pouring drugs into black communties ?
> Who is the one funnellin black people into the prison system ?
> Who is the one cancelling blk ppl from getting the loans ?
> ...



Dodge of my question noted.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Now it's
> 
> You're not being discriminated against, you're just not being favored as much as you have been in the past.  And hiring quotas are not legal except as sanctions (part of a settlement agreement) for having been found to have violated the Civil Rights Act.  They're instituted in order to bring the workforce into alignment with the community when the company has refused to hire eligible minority or female applicants.


Sorry, but when the U.S. President announces that whites will not even be considered for the SCOTUS spot, yes…..whites are being discriminated against.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> You’re a big part of the problem.


You have no idea


Lisa558 said:


> The fact that you want to keep blaming long-ago outlawed racism* for the fact that a subgroup of blacks keep having OOW babies and dropping out of school - thus almost guaranteeing themselves a lifetime of financial struggle - is keeping them poor.


The fact that you have your nose stuck this far in the affairs of others for no other reason than so you can denigrate them to make yourself feel better is obvious


Lisa558 said:


> * I mean, really? As part of your argument up thread, you posted an ad from the early 19th century about slavery?


That image wasn't about slavery, it was an example of a racially restrictive covenant in a real estate deed.  It literally stated in the deed that the seller of the home or property could only sell it to a white person. 

How do you think that impacted the upward mobility of black families trying to get out of poverty that no one would sell a home to them?  They were finally just abolished in 1968.  I realize that is over 50 years ago but it certainly is within my lifetime.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> You've very naive.  You remember the Wells Fargo scandal from about 10 years ago.  I think the only person who got any money of it was one of the employee who was committing the wrongdoing.  He got more than a million but the customers got screwed.
> 
> I'm a database back-end developer so I see a lot of data - I've worked for several mortgage companies and the whole subprime market was created to make more money off of poorer people.  Black people have traditionally been assumed to be poor risks so the financial institutions charge black people more, however when you're poor everything costs you more.  It really seems backwards, just like when in the more affluent areas the price of gas is a lot lower than in the poorer neighborhoods.
> 
> Look it up, this is United States history.



Gasoline prices vary in any community.  Prior to computerized system, much of that variance was due to theft.  

Subprime mortgages were created at the end the Carter administration.  The concept was that there needed to be an alternative to selling your home first before buying another one.  Subprimes were designed to be very temporary and extremely short term until you sold your former house.  That way you didn't get screwed too much by interest rate changes. 

Of course we don't use it for that reason any longer.  Most people do sell their house before buying another one.  So subprimes are used for higher risk loans.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I could care less what they believe as long as they stop their crying and demanding change from everybody else, and as long as they quit invading white areas.


Why do you live in a black neighborhood?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Sorry, but when the U.S. President announces that whites will not even be considered for the SCOTUS spot, yes…..whites are being discriminated against.


Like Reagan did to all men?


----------



## ThomasSowellsFro (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> They give comparisons to white names like Bubba.  They also point out that they used higher ages for the black applications than they did white.  Believe it or not, you will be much more likely to be called for an interview being younger than older.  Trust me, I'm an older white guy and experienced this first hand.  Healthcare insurance for a company can be over twice as high for an older employee than a younger one.  One company I worked for years ago, the employer called middle-aged applicants over young girls for office jobs.  Why?  Because younger girls tend to be single and will eventually marry up and have children which again, runs up healthcare insurance.  They will likely take much more time off of work for illness or school problems of their child.  Middle-aged women had teen children or adult children those women didn't have to worry about.
> 
> Will you get a better employee from a middle-class community than a lower class?  9 times out of 10, yes you will.  The apple usually doesn't fall far from the tree.
> 
> Employers do have a favorite color though, and that color is green.  The employees that make the employer the most green are that employers favorite employees.


That hasn't been demonstrated by the link they gave, only theorized. Youd have to compare black sounding names with "ghetto" black names. But there is no objective standard on what a ghetto black name is. But Names like Lakeisha and Jamal that were used in the nber study are not ghetto. So that theory is bunk. They simply denote black race. And again, the Asians are discriminated against. The age thing I can't confirm because I haven't read the entire thing, but it simply couldn't explain the substantial 50% discrepancy. I would expect the effect to be in the margin, and I doubt there were way more black people than whites in higher age categories. Remember that the resumes were fictitious. 


I Can't think of a single.study that doesn't show white people ahead by a substantial margin, and that's just a coincidence? I.dont think.so.. White privilege is an obvious phenomenon that has been here for centuries.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> I've never seen a bigger pile of crap in my life.  You don't HAVE any evidence.
> 
> White racism is the root cause of many of the ills of the black race yet IN SPITE of living in a country that was founded by white supremacists and living under the yoke of white supremacist law, the remnants of America's own version of apartheid that still remain TODAY, we endure.
> 
> It has not escaped my attention that you all want to focus on the most disadvantaged members of the black race when you have so many more of them of your own.  But you never want to talk about *successful *black people or any of the things any of them have accomplished.  Why is that?  Does the fact that we exist make  you so damn uncomfortable that the only way you can combat your feelings of unease is to constantly unleash a barrage of insanity in the form of racist falsehoods you continuously peddle?



This discussion is not about successful people, it's about failures, that's why. 

Yes, we do bring evidence that you obviously ignored.  I posted studies yesterday that revealed black teen pregnancy is well over twice the rate of white girls. I also posted a study that found 33% of black males had a criminal record.  People with felonies (regardless of race) have to work lower paying jobs as better paying jobs have a felon restriction.  

With 25% of black female teens having kids, and 33% of black men having criminal records, it's not a wonder why they are held back.  It has nothing to do with discrimination or anything whitie did.  









						Data Exclusive: 75 percent of black California boys don't meet state reading standards
					

Across ethnicities and economic status, girls outperform boys on English in standardized tests.




					calmatters.org


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> You’re still doing it! We all know there was horrible racism long ago. That’s been over for generations.


The thing is, it's NOT over.  It's just no longer overt, the change in the laws forced things underground and now a lot of it is covert.  AND there remain remnants of the institutional racism upon which this country was founded.

You can't just start after the Civil Rights Act and say that it's passage solved all of our race problems when there was close to 200 years prior to it's passage of aparthaid right here in the good ole U.S. of A.

It still exists.  You may not see it because you're not black and you don't want to see or believe it.  But black people know it still exists because we all still experience it in various ways.  And sometimes in ways that will never get resolved, you just have to live with the wound.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> This discussion is not about successful people, it's about failures, that's why.
> 
> Yes, we do bring evidence that you obviously ignored.  I posted studies yesterday that revealed black teen pregnancy is well over twice the rate of white girls. I also posted a study that found 33% of black males had a criminal record.  People with felonies (regardless of race) have to work lower paying jobs as better paying jobs have a felon restriction.
> 
> ...


Yes racism has a deep toll


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> That hasn't been demonstrated by the link they gave, only theorized. Youd have to compare black sounding names with "ghetto" black names. But there is no objective standard on what a ghetto black name is. But Names like Lakeisha and Jamal that were used in the nber study are not ghetto. So that theory is bunk. They simply denote black race. And again, the Asians are discriminated against. The age thing I can't confirm because I haven't read the entire thing, but it simply couldn't explain the substantial 50% discrepancy. I would expect the effect to be in the margin, and I doubt there were way more black people than whites in higher age categories. Remember that the resumes were fictitious.
> 
> 
> I Can't think of a single.study that doesn't show white people ahead by a substantial margin, and that's just a coincidence? I.dont think.so.. White privilege is an obvious phenomenon that has been here for centuries.



If you take the time to read the entire article it has several hyperlinks taking you to their sources.


----------



## ThomasSowellsFro (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> If you take the time to read the entire article it has several hyperlinks taking you to their sources.


I did click on them. The one about "bubba,' isn't an actual study, just listing what they perceive as white trash names


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> And you’re going to claim we are finally af a point where blacks aren’t being excluded? NO. We are at a point where half the brainwashed voters think there is nothing wrong with a president announcing, prior to his selection for the most prestigious jobs in the country, that WHITES WILL BE EXCLUDED.
> 
> The difference between conservatives like me and leftists like you is:
> 
> ...


Lisa you don't know my opinions on any of what you've posted above because you've never asked me and have simply assumed that because I'm black that the things you wrote above are true.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> You have no idea
> 
> The fact that you have your nose stuck this far in the affairs of others for no other reason than so you can denigrate them to make yourself feel better is obvious
> 
> ...


You accuse me of denigrating others, when you called me a racist. Oh, the hypocrisy.

And it is not “sticking my nose in” when we have blacks and their enabling white leftists blaming RACISM for the subgroup of blacks who remain in poverty, when that isn’t the reason. This lie has taken on a life of its own, with all sorts of anti- white racist policies and sentiment being advanced across the country.

When the Governor of a state proposed paying black teachers at a higher rate than whites, for no other reason than race, and because of this false racist!, racist!, racist! LIE being strewn about, then yes.….whites have every reason to speak up and object.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> This discussion is not about successful people, it's about failures, that's why.


But none of the threads are ever about successful people, only about denigrating black people.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> You accuse me of denigrating others, when you called me a racist. Oh, the hypocrisy.
> 
> And it is not “sticking my nose in” when we have blacks and their enabling white leftists blaming RACISM for the subgroup of blacks who remain in poverty, when that isn’t the reason. This lie has taken on a life of its own, with all sorts of anti- white racist policies and sentiment being advanced across the country.
> 
> When the Governor of a state proposed paying black teachers at a higher rate than whites, for no other reason than race, and because of this false racist!, racist!, racist! LIE being strewn about, then yes.….whites have every reason to speak up and object.


I thought the problem was black people living in poverty, now it's black people getting paid more than whites?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> But none of the threads are ever about successful people, only about denigrating black people.



There is no charge for starting a topic on USMB.  Go for it!


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Lisa you don't know my opinions on any of what you've posted above because you've never asked me and have simply assumed that because I'm black that the things you wrote above are true.


No, I didn’t just assume you were Black. (And why the f does black keep coming out capitalized when white isn’t?)

I specifically said in another post that I had no idea if you were black or just one of the enabling, ledtists whites. Another poster said you noted in an earlier post that you were black.

It makes not one iota of difference what race you are. The statements regarding the cause of black poverty remain the same - it’s not racism; it’s their own choices,


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> I thought the problem was black people living in poverty, now it's black people getting paid more than whites?


Geez. You keep talking about how there is no anti-white racism, and that what we perceive as anti-white racism is no more than whites no longer being favored. So I gave you an example of anti-white racism.

Duh.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> I did click on them. The one about "bubba,' isn't an actual study, just listing what they perceive as white trash names



Okay, I don't want to go back and forth on this.  I posted the evidence and if you want to dismiss it, that's fine with me. 

So let me ask, why would a company not want blacks working for them?  Is it they don't like dark colored skin?


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> There is no charge for starting a topic on USMB.  Go for it!


Also, I’ll add that saying saying that blacks have the ability within themselves to get out of poverty isn’t denigrating them. It’s the leftists who are denigrating them via the bigotry of low expectations.

I say that any poor black can get out of poverty the same way my mother, father, aunt, and uncle did: none had children until after they were married, and all completed their education.


----------



## ThomasSowellsFro (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Okay, I don't want to go back and forth on this.  I posted the evidence and if you want to dismiss it, that's fine with me.
> 
> So let me ask, why would a company not want blacks working for them?  Is it they don't like dark colored skin?


Racism


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yes, we do bring evidence that you obviously ignored. I posted studies yesterday that revealed black teen pregnancy is well over twice the rate of white girls. I also posted a study that found 33% of black males had a criminal record. People with felonies (regardless of race) have to work lower paying jobs as better paying jobs have a felon restriction.


And the false premise is blacks are living in poverty for the same reasons whites are.  

All you did was post a couple of studies without showing any correlation to what Lisa has claimed.  That all that the 20% of black people living in poverty have to do is stay in school (not get a good education) and not have babies that they can't afford (however the government will give the caregivers money to ensure the baby is provided for).

That's not evidence nor does it prove anything.  I would be laughed out of the courtroom if I tried pulling something like that.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> It makes not one iota of difference what race you are. The statements regarding the cause of black poverty remain the same - it’s not racism; it’s their own choices,


So children born into poverty, to parents who have no clue how to do anything other than survive by putting in the hours sunup to sundown, are poor because of their own poor decisions?

Do you know why poor people have so many children?


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> So children born into poverty, to parents who have no clue how to do anything other than survive by putting in the hours sunup to sundown, are poor because of their own poor decisions?
> 
> Do you know why poor people have so many children?


How much clue does it take to know that having babies OOW and dropping out of school isn’t the key to success?

My grandparents also worked sunup to sundown to survive. Yet all their kids not only moved out of poverty, but became successes. So did all of their contemporaries.

Enough with the excuses. Stop enabling bad choices.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Geez. You keep talking about how there is no anti-white racism, and that what we perceive as anti-white racism is no more than whites no longer being favored. So I gave you an example of anti-white racism.
> 
> Duh.


Yeah, well consider Justice Jackson  a freebie.  You all don't have anything to worry about, it's not going to happen again anytime soon.

But since we're on the subject, do you object to a black woman being given the opportunity to serve as a Supreme Court Justice?  Or would you just prefer someone white?  I mean it has been more than 200 years since the court was established and this is the very first time


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Yeah, well consider Justice Jackson  a freebie.  You all don't have anything to worry about, it's not going to happen again anytime soon.
> 
> But since we're on the subject, do you object to a black woman being given the opportunity to serve as a Supreme Court Justice?  Or would you just prefer someone white?  I mean it has been more than 200 years since the court was established and this is the very first time



The issue is not her race, the issue is her record as a judge.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The issue is not her race, the issue is her record as a judge.


Yeah she's great


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> So children born into poverty, to parents who have no clue how to do anything other than survive by putting in the hours sunup to sundown, are poor because of their own poor decisions?
> 
> Do you know why poor people have so many children?



I know, it's more government benefits and lack of responsibility.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> How much clue does it take to know that having babies OOW and dropping out of school isn’t the key to success?
> 
> My grandparents also worked sunup to sundown to survive. Yet all their kids not only moved out of poverty, but became successes. So did all of their contemporaries.
> 
> Enough with the excuses. Stop enabling bad choices.


None are so blind as those who refuse to see.  None of you all are black are you?

And i"m not enabling anything, I can't impact the lives of any of the people you claim to be concerned with (not really). I'm just poking holes in your arguments that you can't substantiate.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> And the false premise is blacks are living in poverty for the same reasons whites are.
> 
> All you did was post a couple of studies without showing any correlation to what Lisa has claimed.  That all that the 20% of black people living in poverty have to do is stay in school (not get a good education) and not have babies that they can't afford (however the government will give the caregivers money to ensure the baby is provided for).
> 
> That's not evidence nor does it prove anything.  I would be laughed out of the courtroom if I tried pulling something like that.



Of course it's evidence.  Do you realize what it costs it is to raise a child today?  The CDC puts it at $233,000 for middle-class families.  When 25% of black girls are having babies when they are a child themselves, they enslaved themselves to a life of poverty.  Same with felons.  You'll be working at a pizza shop the rest of your life with a criminal record.  So it does play a huge part in the overall failure of blacks in this country.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Of course it's evidence.  Do you realize what it costs it is to raise a child today?  The CDC puts it at $233,000 for middle-class families.  When 25% of black girls are having babies when they are a child themselves, they enslaved themselves to a life of poverty.  Same with felons.  You'll be working at a pizza shop the rest of your life with a criminal record.  So it does play a huge part in the overall failure of blacks in this country.


Yes racism has a deep toll


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> Racism


Deflection noted.  Once again:  why would an employer not want blacks to work for them?  If you stick with racism, then are you saying skin color?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Deflection noted.  Once again:  why would an employer not want blacks to work for them?  If you stick with racism, then are you saying skin color?


Because they have racist views about black people


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Also, I’ll add that saying saying that blacks have the ability within themselves to get out of poverty isn’t denigrating them. It’s the leftists who are denigrating them via the bigotry of low expectations.
> 
> I say that any poor black can get out of poverty the same way my mother, father, aunt, and uncle did: none had children until after they were married, and all completed their education.



To a degree, yes.  But it also takes staying away from drugs and crime.  A high school graduate with no children is still going nowhere if they are on drugs or have a criminal past.  Employers don't want to hire people like that of any race.


----------



## ThomasSowellsFro (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Deflection noted.  Once again:  why would an employer not want blacks to work for them?  If you stick with racism, then are you saying skin color?


Not a deflection. I gave you the reason.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> How much clue does it take to know that having babies OOW and dropping out of school isn’t the key to success?
> 
> My grandparents also worked sunup to sundown to survive. Yet all their kids not only moved out of poverty, but became successes. So did all of their contemporaries.
> 
> Enough with the excuses. Stop enabling bad choices.


My ancestors worked from sunup to sundown too, but the fruits of their labor were stolen from them
"The Middleton Place Plantation"  Charleston South Carolina


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Yeah, well consider Justice Jackson  a freebie.  You all don't have anything to worry about, it's not going to happen again anytime soon.
> 
> But since we're on the subject, do you object to a black woman being given the opportunity to serve as a Supreme Court Justice?  Or would you just prefer someone white?  I mean it has been more than 200 years since the court was established and this is the very first time


Oh FFS. Of course I don’t object to a black woman on the SCOTUS! There you go - trying to make someone appear racist by suggesting theny would object to something like that. The normal posters reading this see right through you, as do most of the voters See right through the fake cries of racism.

I just object to racist standards being applied when selecting someone, and announcing that all whites are excluded is RACIST. But you have no objections to that, amirite?


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Of course it's evidence. Do you realize what it costs it is to raise a child today? The CDC puts it at $233,000 for middle-class families. When 25% of black girls are having babies when they are a child themselves, they enslaved themselves to a life of poverty. Same with felons. You'll be working at a pizza shop the rest of your life with a criminal record. So it does play a huge part in the overall failure of blacks in this country.


So why do you live among poor black people if everything about that particular demographic annoys and irritates you?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> So why do you live among poor black people if everything about that particular demographic annoys and irritates you?


Maybe he is also poor...which begs the question...what stopped him from being successful?


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> My ancestors worked from sunup to sundown too, but the fruits of their labor were stolen from them
> "The Middleton Place Plantation"  Charleston South Carolina
> View attachment 633994


I’m not talking about ancestors! There you go again, deflecting,

You made the excuse that poor blacks remain poor because they saw their parents work sunup to sundown, and thus the kids are clueless as to how to get out of poverty. i gave you why that’s a weak excuse, explaining how my parents and their siblings ALSO saw their parents work sunup to sundown, and yet they were able to move from poverty to the middle class is one generation.

And “your“ ancestors. You just gave away that you are indeed black. You are not helping your people ONE bit by sewing resentment against today’s whites for what SOME grandoarents’ grandparents might have done. (Not mine. They were impoverished Jews living in European shtetls.)

Stop with the excuses, and for G-d’s sake, stop going back 200 years. Blacks have been getting preferential treatment for two generations, and that was sufficient for most to become middle class. The ones that haven’t? it says something about THEM. Stop blaming whitey.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Oh FFS. Of course I don’t object to a black woman on the SCOTUS! There you go - trying to make someone appear racist by suggesting theny would object to something like that. The normal posters reading this see right through you, as do most of the voters See right through the fake cries of racism.
> 
> I just object to racist standards being applied when selecting someone, and announcing that all whites are excluded is RACIST. But you have no objections to that, amirite?


What I think is that you all are a bunch of hypocrites.  As long as the deck was stacked in favor of whites everything was just peachy keen right?

But the minute the playing field started to be leveled now there is a major crisis of epic proportions right?  Whites are allegedly being discriminated against and the fear is spilling out everywhere, it's ridiculous but to be expected.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Maybe he is also poor...which begs the question...what stopped him from being successful?


You know you may be on to something.  I mean if he can't raise himself out of the black poverty he's in and he's a WHITE guy doesn't that kind of prove the point that getting out of poverty is HARD?


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> What I think is that you all are a bunch of hypocrites.  As long as the deck was stacked in favor of whites everything was just peachy keen right?
> 
> But the minute the playing field started to be leveled now there is a major crisis of epic proportions right?  Whites are allegedly being discriminated against and the fear is spilling out everywhere, it's ridiculous but to be expected.


The playing field isn’t just “leveled” - and it isn’t just now. Blacks have been getting prefential treatment for decades. That’s why black kids with a 3.2 get into medical school and whites don’t have a fighting chance with a 3.6.

And a “level playing field” isn’t one that excludes all whites. A level playing field is one where people are selected on merit, not skin color. You hypocrites are just replacing the black racism of generations ago with white racism today.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I’m not talking about ancestors! There you go again, deflecting,
> 
> You made the excuse that poor blacks remain poor because they saw their parents work sunup to sundown, and thus the kids are clueless as to how to get out of poverty. i gave you why that’s a weak excuse, explaining how my parents and their siblings ALSO saw their parents work sunup to sundown, and yet they were able to move from poverty to the middle class is one generation.
> 
> ...


Why don't you want me to talk about my ancestors when you have talked about your family members?  I know you believe that slavery was a LONG LONG time ago but one of my cousins who I met several decades ago (1984ish) came from parents who lived on the Middleton Plantation.  That's where one half of my family originated.

So no, you don't get to talk about your family and how they pulled themselves up by their bootstraps (while not being black) and tell me not to talk about my family whom I'm proud of because they took what they learned while in captivity and used that knowledge and those skills to make a good life for themselves elsewhere as building contractors, the first African Americans to be licensed as such there in their home state.  

And it's never been a secret that I'm black, everyone who knows me here, knows that I'm black so I don't why you think I'm giving anything away but let me leave you with this. I was telling another poster about my grandfather who was a Tuskegee Airmen.  They accomplished all that they did 20 years at least before the advent of affirmative action, however they faced the same propaganda you all are spewing now - they were given preferential treatment, they took flight slots away from white pilots, white pilots were being discriminated against, etc.  

So, were the Tuskegee Airmen causing white pilots to be discriminated against?  In your opinion did they deserve the slots they got even if it meant some white pilots didn't get to fly?


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Why don't you want me to talk about my ancestors when you have talked about your family members?  I know you believe that slavery was a LONG LONG time ago but one of my cousins who I met several decades ago (1984ish) came from parents who lived on the Middleton Plantation.  That's where one half of my family originated.
> 
> So no, you don't get to talk about your family and how they pulled themselves up by their bootstraps (while not being black) and tell me not to talk about my family whom I'm proud of because they took what they learned while in captivity and used that knowledge and those skills to make a good life for themselves elsewhere as building contractors, the first African Americans to be licensed as such there in their home state.
> 
> ...


Because we all k ow about your ancestors, and yes….it was horrible….but it’s time to stop blaming the problems the subclass of blacks face TODAY on why they remain poor.

And do you realize how all,over the place you are? First, I was addressing you as if you were black.….you came out and said i don’t know if you’re black or white….I said that another poster said you were….and then when you said something about your ancestors and I remarked that you were black…..you said everything on here knows you’re black.

Thats why it’s impossible to debate with you people. You go back generations to explain why SOME blacks are still poor (then why are others not poor?) to use racism as an excuse, when the very topic of this thread is that it is ONE’s OWN CHOICES and not racism.

You try to explain that away by poor parents, woeking sunup to sundown, so how could their kids make good choices, and I explain how my grandparents also worked sunup to sundown, in sweatshops, and my parents made the right choices. So then you go back to ancestors.

You people are such hypocrites.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The playing field isn’t just “leveled” - and it isn’t just now. Blacks have been getting prefential treatment for decades. That’s why black kids with a 3.2 get into medical school and whites don’t have a fighting chance with a 3.6.
> 
> And a “level playing field” isn’t one that excludes all whites. A level playing field is one where people are selected on merit, not skin color. You hypocrites are just replacing the black racism of generations ago with white racism today.


LOL, you see black racism EVERYWHERE!  

What was there before the Civil Rights Act?  Almost 200 years of affirmative action giving preference to whites BY LAW.  I bet you or any of yours didn't have a problem with THAT did you?  What about the legacy admissions and schools who refused to allow black students to attend.  Do you know that one school district in Virginia I think it was, shut down the entire district rather than desegregate after the landmark Supreme Court ruling Brown v Board of Education.  They knew the white parents would put their children in private schools while the black parents couldn't afford to do so.  So the black students were unable to attend school for something like 3 years that that move got straightened out in court.  They hated black people so much that they rather shut down the district that have their children in the same classroom with them.  That's really vile however you seem to be unaware of a lot of the racial history of the U.S.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Because we all k ow about your ancestors, and yes….it was horrible….but it’s time to stop blaming the problems the subclass of blacks face TODAY on why they remain poor.
> 
> And do you realize how all,over the place you are? First, I was addressing you as if you were black.….you came out and said i don’t know if you’re black or white….I said that another poster said you were….and then when you said something about your ancestors and I remarked that you were black…..you said everything on here knows you’re black.
> 
> ...


Your family is still not black, so you can't compare your history with ours.  There is no further descent into poverty one can make than starting out from being a slave or having been a slave.

And you're misquoting me.  I said that you assumed the things you have about me _because _I am black, not however you jumbled it up.


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Good.
> 
> Now blacks vote Democrat by choice
> 
> ...


More like they were trained to live on the plantation.  Of course that hasn't really worked out well for most of them.  Welfare destroyed their nuclear family and has kept them in economic bondage for almost 100 years.  Very sad.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The issue is not her race, the issue is her record as a judge.


Uh huh.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> More like they were trained to live on the plantation.  Of course that hasn't really worked out well for most of them.  Welfare destroyed their nuclear family and has kept them in economic bondage for almost 100 years.  Very sad.


Trained?  Man that is racist


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

P.S. Stop with the land stolen form you. You are not getting whites who had nothing to do with slavery pay blacks who are many generations removed to pay you reparations.

My grandmother didn't get reparations from Germany when her OWN mother was MURDERED, and her sister, and her BIL, and her four nieces and nephews. So why should the U.S. pay blacks money for something they didn’t directly suffer from?


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> LOL, you see black racism EVERYWHERE!
> 
> What was there before the Civil Rights Act?  Almost 200 years of affirmative action giving preference to whites BY LAW.  I bet you or any of yours didn't have a problem with THAT did you?  What about the legacy admissions and schools who refused to allow black students to attend.  Do you know that one school district in Virginia I think it was, shut down the entire district rather than desegregate after the landmark Supreme Court ruling Brown v Board of Education.  They knew the white parents would put their children in private schools while the black parents couldn't afford to do so.  So the black students were unable to attend school for something like 3 years that that move got straightened out in court.  They hated black people so much that they rather shut down the district that have their children in the same classroom with them.  That's really vile however you seem to be unaware of a lot of the racial history of the U.S.


Says the resentful black woman who sees white racism everywhere. I’d cry if I didn’t laugh.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The issue is not her race, the issue is her record as a judge.


the leftists would have excused ANYTHING just to get a black woman on the Court.


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Trained?  Man that is racist


Ok how about they were conditioned to serve their white overlords?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Ok how about they were conditioned to serve their white overlords?


Wow you are piling up the racism


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Says the resentful black woman who sees white racism everywhere. I’d cry if I didn’t laugh.


You think I'm resentful?  You really think I would spend time here if I resented you all?  That would be a fool's errand.

Did you not see IM2's page full of the most vile racist comments that anyone would never wish to see?


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 21, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> You have very strange thinking
> 
> nothing is an excuse for bad behavior
> 
> but there was nothing bad white did back in the day that every other race and culture was not doing also


My "strange thinking?"
You just excused slavery, murder, rape, child molestation
BECAUSE
Everyone else was doing it.

Perhaps your "thinking" is what needs reevaluation.


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Wow you are piling up the racism


It's absolutely true.  Blacks are serving the interests of white politicians.  What have they gotten to show for it besides economic bondage.  It's sad.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> It's absolutely true.  Blacks are serving the interests of white politicians.  What have they gotten to show for it besides economic bondage.  It's sad.


Yes it's TRUE you post a lot of racist stuff


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Your family is still not black, so you can't compare your history with ours.  There is no further descent into poverty one can make than starting out from being a slave or having been a slave.
> 
> And you're misquoting me.  I said that you assumed the things you have about me _because _I am black, not however you jumbled it up.


Oh yes there is - and much more recently. there is no further descent into poverty to seeing the anti-Jewish persecution in Europe growing, and fleeing with NOTHING, and arriving in America penniless, impoverished, uneducated, and then hear how your remaining relatives were slaughtered like vermin, then a generation later having all your kids successful.

And they did thst in one generation without the help of Pell Grants, and Affirmative Action - and in fact the opposite: Jews were kept out of the best colleges. So if Jews could accomplish all that in ine generation, why can’t the blacks remaining in poverty accomplish it two - and buoyed by AA favoritism?

Or, let’s ask another way: why did MOST blacks move into the middle class, leaving just a subset still stuck in poverty?

 HINT: Correct choices. Just like my parents made. And my uncle. And my aunt. And all their friends. My parents, well Mom now since Dad passed away (RIPj, had a circle of friends who were from their old poor neighborhood, and they ALL become successful middle class homeowners in a single generation.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> You think I'm resentful?  You really think I would spend time here if I resented you all?  That would be a fool's errand.
> 
> Did you not see IM2's page full of the most vile racist comments that anyone would never wish to see?


I have that black racist on ignore. I’m glad you agree he’s a disgusting POS.


----------



## Mac-7 (Apr 21, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> My "strange thinking?"
> You just excused slavery, murder, rape, child molestation
> BECAUSE
> Everyone else was doing it.


Uh, yeah

the entire world was doing all those bad things in the 18th Century and in some places still is


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> LOL, you see black racism EVERYWHERE!
> 
> What was there before the Civil Rights Act?  Almost 200 years of affirmative action giving preference to whites BY LAW.  I bet you or any of yours didn't have a problem with THAT did you?  What about the legacy admissions and schools who refused to allow black students to attend.  Do you know that one school district in Virginia I think it was, shut down the entire district rather than desegregate after the landmark Supreme Court ruling Brown v Board of Education.  They knew the white parents would put their children in private schools while the black parents couldn't afford to do so.  So the black students were unable to attend school for something like 3 years that that move got straightened out in court.  They hated black people so much that they rather shut down the district that have their children in the same classroom with them.  That's really vile however you seem to be unaware of a lot of the racial history of the U.S.



The neighborhoods were segregated and thus the schools.  The only way to desegregate the schools was busing.

That happened in my city.  When it started whites moved out of the city into the suburbs.  Back then, few women drove and most all households were one car families that the father took to work everyday.  In the event of a problem a woman couldn't just hop in a car and drive across town to get her child, so the people with money left.  The people who didn't have the money were forced to stay.

So what happens to a city when all the people with money leave and the only people left are those with no money?  The legacy of busing still haunts our city until this day.


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Yes it's TRUE you post a lot of racist stuff


There you go again trying to make it about me


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Uh.....nope


The Black posters sure do here.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 21, 2022)

Activists look the other way as Black Americans pay bloody price for BLM, 'woke agenda': experts
					

Social justice activists have looked the other way on the crime and murder rates since 2020's BLM and defund the police protests and riots, according to experts.




					www.foxnews.com


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 21, 2022)

The truth hurts.  I've lived with poor folks, Black and White, all my life.  I'd rather live in a poor White neighborhood.  It's cleaner.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So give me a quote from you or any other black participant here saying "yes, that is our fault."


Why in the hell should we? So your white ass can feel good?


JoeB131 said:


> Having read Flash's posts, do you really think someone as deranged as he is could be a manager?


Yes. I've see what he said done by others.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Activists look the other way as Black Americans pay bloody price for BLM, 'woke agenda': experts
> 
> 
> Social justice activists have looked the other way on the crime and murder rates since 2020's BLM and defund the police protests and riots, according to experts.
> ...


BLM gave away 21.7 million dollars to black community organizations last year. Shut the fuck up with that fox news bullshit.


----------



## DBA (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> LOL, you see black racism EVERYWHERE!
> 
> What was there before the Civil Rights Act?  Almost 200 years of affirmative action giving preference to whites BY LAW.  I bet you or any of yours didn't have a problem with THAT did you?  What about the legacy admissions and schools who refused to allow black students to attend.  Do you know that one school district in Virginia I think it was, shut down the entire district rather than desegregate after the landmark Supreme Court ruling Brown v Board of Education.  They knew the white parents would put their children in private schools while the black parents couldn't afford to do so.  So the black students were unable to attend school for something like 3 years that that move got straightened out in court.  They hated black people so much that they rather shut down the district that have their children in the same classroom with them.  That's really vile however you seem to be unaware of a lot of the racial history of the U.S



So just to sum up, discriminating against blacks was terribly wrong,  which I agree, so we need to discriminate against whites now to makeup for that. Two wrongs equal = right in your world.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Why in the hell should we? So your white ass can feel good?



No, to refute my claim that you black posters will never blame yourselves for your situation. I knew you couldn't which is why I asked.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> No, to refute my claim that you black posters will never blame yourselves for your situation. I knew you couldn't which is why I asked.



What makes it even sadder is when a black man DOES acknowledge that the problems within the poor black community are due to their own poor choices, the leftists who rage against racism call him an Uncle Tom.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Not at all.  It happens all the time.  In any case my point (that obviously flew over your head) is that in many cases, it's actions of black people that keep them back, not discrimination or racism.  You posted some phony story about discrepancies between the success of whites and blacks as a whole.  I posted facts with links as to why.  Your article just came to some unproven conclusion where as mine are about statistics.
> 
> Like the lottery tickets, I see it all the time here.  Kids with kids.  Bottom line is when 25% of your girls are getting impregnated and 33% of your guys have felonies, it's not a wonder why they are being held back in society, but whites are not responsible for that, blacks do this to themselves.  Now you post another phony story about employment discrimination.  We've had laws against that the last couple of generations.  Again, that study isn't an apples to apples comparison.
> 
> ...


Ray, I posted a testimony from a person who hired people.  I've been part of a class-action suit against a U.S Corporation for racial discrimination. I'm not going to going to argue with your racist ass based on your selected use of statistics that validate your racism. I'm black and have lived  it. What you say is not so. Just because a law is made doesn't mean it is followed.  Racism must be heavily documented, any missing documentation ends the case. So again, the way you see things is not how they work in reality.  The reason blacks are living at double the rate of poverty is racism. A bunch of racists with opinions don't change that reality. I posted poverty stats from 1959 until 2020 and black poverty has never been less than double the white poverty rate. This is not because of what blacks have done to ourselves.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> No, to refute my claim that you black posters will never blame yourselves for your situation. I knew you couldn't which is why I asked.


I can't because it's not the reason. You can't face the reason and that is why we keep seeing threads like this from losers like you and Lisa, queen of affirmative action.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> What makes it even sadder is when a black man DOES acknowledge that the problems within the poor black community are due to their own poor choices, the leftists who rage against racism call him an Uncle Tom.


That's because he is an uncle tom.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

ALL RISE!

This afternoons lesson is titled:

BLACKS DID NOT DO THIS TO OURSELVES!


Lisa558 said:


> The point being that the examples of racism, horrible as it was, was generations ago. In today’s climate, and even going back 40 years in some areas, blacks are prioritized over whites.
> 
> It’s past time for leftists to stop blaming racism for why some blacks remain poor. It is the same reason some whites remain poor: they have babies they can’t afford when they’re still teens and acquire no career or job training.


YOUA are a racist now. Yet you are trying to tell somebody that racism is gone. STFU.


----------



## DBA (Apr 21, 2022)

IM2 said:


> That's because he is an uncle tom.



No, he is a person who has decided not to make excuses. *Everyone* can make excuses, it is those that choose not to let them hinder their progress that are successful.


----------



## DBA (Apr 21, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Yet you are trying to tell somebody that racism is gone.



And you are trying to tell us that we have white privilege.  Funny that black people are allowed this insight about white people but white people are not allowed to provide insight about black people.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

*ALL RISE!*

This afternoons lesson is titled:

*BLACKS DID NOT DO THIS TO OURSELVES!*

In 1959 the poverty rate for all American families was 20.8 percent. For white families, it was 16.5 percent. For black families, 54.9 percent. *During the time people declare that black families were “intact,” black family poverty was 3.33 times that of white ones. I*n 1966, the American poverty rate was 13.1 percent. For white families, the poverty rate was 9.7 percent, and for black families, 40.9 percent. In 1966, black family poverty was 4.2 times that of white families. In 1974 the poverty rate for all American families was 9.9 percent. Poverty for Black families was 29.3 percent. For Whites 7.3 percent. Black family poverty was four times that of whites ten years after Civil Rights was passed. In 1984, the poverty rate for all American families was 13.1 percent. For Black families, it was 33.3 percent, Whites 10.1 percent. Black family poverty was 3.29 times that of whites 20 years after Civil Rights was signed into law.

In 2004 the poverty rate for all American families was 11 percent. For white families, it was 9 percent. Black families, 23.8 percent. We are now 40 years past Johnson's signing of the Civil Rights Act. These numbers are well within our lifetimes. In 2004 black family poverty was 2.64 times that of a white family. In 2014, the American poverty rate was 12.7 percent. For white families, the poverty rate was 10.7 percent, and for black families, 24.6 percent. 50 years had passed since the Civil Rights Act, and black families still had at least double the white family poverty rate. In 2014 black family poverty was 2.3 times that of white families. In 2020 the poverty rate for all American families was 9.5 percent. Poverty for black families was 17.4 percent, white families 8.2 percent. Despite increases in educational attainment and breakthroughs at every level of American society, in 2020, black family poverty remained two times that of white families. No matter how it is measured, poverty for whites is lower than the national average, and black poverty is consistently double the national average. Since 1959 no matter how low or high poverty has been, blacks have continued living at double the white and overall American poverty rate. Increased high school and college graduation rates have not changed this discrepancy.

*At no time from 1959 through 2020 have whites and blacks come close to having equal income. It has not mattered whether America was practicing segregation. It has not mattered that blacks have become better educated. It has not mattered if black households were traditional two parent, two cars, a dog, two children having, good church-going members of American society.* We have had two terms of a black president, and still, the median income for blacks has been less than whites. Most certainly, if a black man can manage a nation, he can run a corporation. If a black woman can run the second-largest Department of Justice in America and serve as Vice President, she can manage your local Wal-Mart.* Sixty-eight years ago, Brown v. Topeka ended segregation in schools. Fifty-eight years ago, Civil Rights for everyone became law. This situation is not about the failure of “black culture” or so-called liberal handout policies. The root cause of the problems blacks face today is continuing white racism.*

U.S. Census Bureau, Current Population Survey, 1960 to 2021 Annual Social and Economic Supplements (CPS ASEC). _Table 2. Poverty Status of People by Family Relationship, Race, and Hispanic Origin: 1959 to 2020_


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

DBA said:


> No, he is a person who has decided not to make excuses. *Everyone* can make excuses, it is those that choose not to let them hinder their progress that are successful.


Whites like you make excuses. I am stating the facts.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Ray, I posted a testimony from a person who hired people.  I've been part of a class-action suit against a U.S Corporation for racial discrimination. I'm not going to going to argue with your racist ass based on your selected use of statistics that validate your racism. I'm black and have lived  it. What you say is not so. Just because a law is made doesn't mean it is followed.  Racism must be heavily documented, any missing documentation ends the case. So again, the way you see things is not how they work in reality.  The reason blacks are living at double the rate of poverty is racism. A bunch of racists with opinions don't change that reality. I posted poverty stats from 1959 until 2020 and black poverty has never been less than double the white poverty rate. This is not because of what blacks have done to ourselves.



Of course it's because of what blacks have done to themselves. You don't need much documentation for a lawsuit.  All you need is the qualifications of the white person that got the job over you.  That can be subpoenaed by a court.  

One person does not indicate systemic racism.  That's besides the fact we are on the internet.  You can tell any story you want here and there's no way to prove it pro or con. You can believe it or not believe it.  You said you experienced it.  I think you are FOS.  Every black person on USMB has made similar claims, and in spite of the laws heavily guarding against it, none of you ever sued anybody to rectify your situation. 

I can refute your stories and you can refute mine, but statistics tell the truth all the time.  As I said earlier, your race will never get anywhere if you people don't come to terms with the fact that much of your hardships you brought on yourselves. I can tell by the fact you call anybody that disagrees with you a racist, that if you did lose a job or court case, you dismissed every other possibility except racism.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

DBA said:


> And you are trying to tell us that we have white privilege.  Funny that black people are allowed this insight about white people but white people are not allowed to provide insight about black people.


That's because you have provided "insight" for nearly 246 years and your "insight" has been wrong.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Of course it's because of what blacks have done to themselves. You don't need much documentation for a lawsuit.  All you need is the qualifications of the white person that got the job over you.  That can be subpoenaed by a court.
> 
> One person does not indicate systemic racism.  That's besides the fact we are on the internet.  You can tell any story you want here and there's no way to prove it pro or con. You can believe it or not believe it.  You said you experienced it.  I think you are FOS.  Every black person on USMB has made similar claims, and in spite of the laws heavily guarding against it, none of you ever sued anybody to rectify your situation.
> 
> I can refute your stories and you can refute mine, but statistics tell the truth all the time.  As I said earlier, your race will never get anywhere if you people don't come to terms with the fact that much of your hardships you brought on yourselves. I can tell by the fact you call anybody that disagrees with you a racist, that if you did lose a job or court case, you dismissed every other possibility except racism.



This is not about one person. This matter is not debatable. I'm telling you how it is and the way I tell you is exactly how it is. Nothing you say is true. You can't refute shit.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> What makes it even sadder is when a black man DOES acknowledge that the problems within the poor black community are due to their own poor choices, the leftists who rage against racism call him an Uncle Tom.



Correct.  If there is such racism against blacks, how is it some blacks make it just fine and others don't?  It's the same in the white community.  There are whites that became wealthy, very wealthy, middle-class and poor.  It has nothing to do with race, or in our case, ethnic background.  It has to do with personal decisions.


----------



## monkrules (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> This discussion is not about successful people, it's about failures, that's why.
> 
> Yes, we do bring evidence that you obviously ignored.  I posted studies yesterday that revealed black teen pregnancy is well over twice the rate of white girls. I also posted a study that found 33% of black males had a criminal record.  People with felonies (regardless of race) have to work lower paying jobs as better paying jobs have a felon restriction.
> 
> ...



It's sad, and so-oo predictable.

All they have is excuses. Never-ending excuses. It's painful to listen to the whining, it's gone on for so long.

Why do they refuse to look, honestly, at their own bad choices and awful behavior?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

IM2 said:


> This is not about one person. This matter is not debatable. I'm telling you how it is and the way I tell you is exactly how it is. Nothing you say is true. You can't refute shit.



The difference between us is you offer opinion, and I offer fact.  It's like rock, paper scissors.  Facts and statistics beat opinion every single time.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

monkrules said:


> It's sad, and so-oo predictable.
> 
> All they have is excuses. Never-ending excuses. It's painful to listen to the whining, it's gone on for so long.
> 
> Why do they refuse to look, honestly, at their own bad choices and awful behavior?



Why?  Because it's so easy, that's why.  It's like that story I told about an immediate family member that became an alcoholic.  It's just easy to say I don't have a problem.  Because if you come to terms that you do have a problem, it's a long and hard fight to defeat it.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

The Lesson continues.

Payscale did a two-year study from 2017 to 2019, and this is their conclusion: _"we find equal pay for equal work is still not a reality."_  They studied the earnings of white men and men of color using data from 1.8 million employees. They found that no matter how far they advanced, black men made less than white men with the same qualifications. According to the study, _“black men were the only racial/ethnic group not achieving pay parity with white men at some level."_ The study showed that black men had the most significant "uncontrolled pay gap" relative to white men and that on average, black men earned 87 cents for every dollar a white man earned. The Payscale study showed that black men are paid less compared to all other men.

Even when black and white men had the same job, experience, education, and worked at the same geographic location, the study shows a controlled pay gap whereby black men earned less.  Executive-level black men still earn less than white men at that same level. At that level, black men are paid 97 cents for every dollar a white man is paid but face the same executive responsibilities and are expected to produce the same or superior results.

Dana M Peterson, Catherine L Mann_, Closing the Racial Inequality Gaps, The Economic Cost of Black Inequality in the U.S._, pg. 4, Closing the Racial Inequality Gaps - CitiGPS

Stephen Miller, _Black Workers Still Earn Less than Their White Counterparts,_ www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/hr-topics/compensation/pages/racial-wage-gaps-persistence-poses-challenge.aspx

The “conservative” judgment of the single parent, unwed mother, and fatherless home because of irresponsible black men has problems. The National Women’s Law Center also showed that black women are paid less than other women. Black women are paid 63 cents for every dollar paid to white men based on calculations used in the study. Where this impacts black single mothers is this study shows a pay difference of over 20,000 dollars per year. _"Black women have to work more than 19 months—until the very last day of July—to make as much as white, non-Hispanic men did in the previous 12-month calendar year."  _Black women in high-wage occupations earn 64 cents for every dollar a white man earns.  On average, that is 40,000 dollars per year less than white men in those same occupations. This renders the unwed mother, fatherless home opinion meritless relative to income and poverty because a black couple can get married, daddy lives at home, and the family still makes less than whites. This is not about lack of education. Nor is it about the field of study.

Brandie Temple and Jasmine Tucker, _Equal Pay for Black Women_, Equal Pay for Black Women - National Women's Law Center,

_"Even after completing undergraduate and graduate degrees, black and Hispanic workers earned less than non-Hispanic white workers with the same, or often less, education."_
*- Roy Eduardo Kokoyachuk, ThinkNow Research *

 Kokoyachuck found that blacks and Hispanics with college degrees were paid less than whites and Asians with comparable education. His study showed that blacks and Hispanics who graduated in S.T.E.M majors earned less than whites and Asians with degrees in those same majors. _"Even when Blacks and Hispanics go the extra mile and earn professional degrees, their incomes still don’t break six figures. Whites and Asians, however, double their incomes by earning professional degrees, allowing them to make well over $100,000 a year." 

Roy Eduardo Kokoyachuk, Education Alone Can't Close The Racial Wage Gap, Education Alone Can't Close The Racial Wage Gap_


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The difference between us is you offer opinion, and I offer fact.  It's like rock, paper scissors.  Facts and statistics beat opinion every single time.


I am showing fact. You are not. Nothing you have posted was anything but your opinion or information that supports your opinion. I live with this shit white boy. You look at it from the outside and with your own personal racism. Nothing you say has anything to do with black poverty. You cite felony rates, but the criminal justice system has been shown to be racist by studies done by professionals in the field. So your citing that by itself shows how racism creates poverty for black people.


----------



## monkrules (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Because they have racist views about black people


That may be true.

But many of the negative views whites might hold about black people come into being as a direct result of the horrible behavior many, especially younger, blacks engage in. Thievery, all kinds of crime, brainless riots, smash and grabs, senseless murders, demanding free shit they HAVEN'T EARNED.

How can people be expected to hold positive views about people who insist on acting like rabid animals - and then try to blame others for their self-created problems? Fuck them.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

monkrules said:


> That may be true.
> 
> But many of the negative views whites might hold about black people come into being as a direct result of the horrible behavior blacks engage in. Thievery, all kinds of crime, brainless riots, smash and grabs, senseless murders, demand in free shit they HAVEN'T EARNED.
> 
> How can people be expected to hold positive views about people who insist on acting like rabid animals - and then trying to blame others for their problems? Fuck them.


So you think black people act like rabid animals....right?


----------



## Unkotare (Apr 21, 2022)

monkrules said:


> That may be true.
> 
> But many of the negative views whites might hold about black people come into being as a direct result of the horrible behavior blacks engage in. ....


Classic excuse of a racist.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 21, 2022)

DBA said:


> No, he is a person who has decided not to make excuses. *Everyone* can make excuses, it is those that choose not to let them hinder their progress that are successful.


Everyone has challenges and obstacles to overcome.  Winners get up when knocked down.  Losers whine and blame others.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Everyone has challenges and obstacles to overcome.  Winners get up when knocked down.  Losers whine and blame others.


I know.  The crippled should crawl up the stairs.  Screw ramps


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> So you think black people act like rabid animals....right?


And the lame game continues.  Some Blacks are like rabid animals.  What else ya got?


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Correct.  If there is such racism against blacks, how is it some blacks make it just fine and others don't?  It's the same in the white community.  There are whites that became wealthy, very wealthy, middle-class and poor.  It has nothing to do with race, or in our case, ethnic background.  It has to do with personal decisions.


Yes, so obvious.

And I asked that question before of our leftists who insist that the blacks who remain poor are so due to race: Why then did most blacks move out of poverty and into the middle class and up?

The answer comes back, “they moved up despite racism.” Then let’s dive deeper. How were they able to succeed despite racism”? The answer is that they made the right choices and took advantage of the opportunities available to them.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> I know.  The crippled should crawl up the stairs.  Screw ramps


So all Blacks are crippled?  Why would you say such a racist thing?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> So all Blacks are crippled?  Why would you say such a racist thing?


Cause I feel like it.  Lol


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Why?  Because it's so easy, that's why.  It's like that story I told about an immediate family member that became an alcoholic.  It's just easy to say I don't have a problem.  Because if you come to terms that you do have a problem, it's a long and hard fight to defeat it.


It’s like when adults still blame their parents when they have problems. At some point, you’ve got to grow up and admit that you make your own choices.

I just spoke with a 60-year-old man who complained to me that his parents should have encouraged him to go to law school. Grow up!


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Cause I feel like it.  Lol


Racist pig.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Racist pig.


Get em ranger


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> So all Blacks are crippled?  Why would you say such a racist thing?


Yeah, that’s the bigotry of low expectations that is rampant among leftists. That the poster would compare able-bodied poor blacks who have Pell Grants available and Affirmative Action helping them get into prestigious programs as being “crippled” sure is telling!


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Get em ranger


Bye. Troll.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yeah, that’s the bigotry of low expectations that is rampant among leftists. That the poster would compare able-bodied poor blacks who have Pell Grants available and Affirmative Action helping them get into prestigious programs as being “crippled” sure is telling!


I put the troll on ignore.  Obviously mentally ill.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Bye. Troll.


Hoooooooooooah


----------



## DBA (Apr 21, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Whites like you make excuses. I am stating the facts.



What excuses am I making?


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

The lesson continues...

_"In 1965, Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s report, The Negro Family: The Case for National Action, attributed racial inequality as well as poverty and crime in the black community to family structure, particularly the prevalence of families headed by single mothers. Not only did research at the time cast doubt on this causality, but evidence over the last the 50 years demonstrates that rates of child poverty, educational attainment, and crime do not track rates of single parenthood. Thus, even though the share of children living with a single mother rose for all racial and ethnic groups through the mid-1990s and has remained high since then, school completion and youth arrests for violent crimes have declined significantly, while poverty rates have fluctuated according to economic conditions. Family structure does not drive racial inequity, and racial inequity persists regardless of family structure."_
*-Amy Traub, Laura Sullivan, Tatjana Meschede and Thomas Shapiro, DEMOS, “The Asset Value of Whiteness: Understanding the Racial Wealth Gap.”*

The median income for black households compared to non-Hispanic whites for the last 50 years show a history of earnings inequality. The numbers used were from the U.S. Census Bureau, Current Population Survey Annual Social and Economic Supplements (CPS ASEC), Table H-5 Race and Hispanic Origin of Householder--Households by Median and Mean Income: 1967 to 2020. Again, this will reflect that the unwed mother and fatherless home are not the sole cause of economic hardship. It is caused by a problem most want to deny.

In 1972, the American household median income was $9,697 per year. The median income for non-Hispanic white households was $10,318 per year; for Black households, it was $5,938. Black household median income was 58 percent of white households. In 1974, the American household median income was $11,197 per year. The median income for non-Hispanic white households was $11,810 per year; for black households, $6,964. Black household median income was 59 percent of what whites made.

Twenty years after the Civil Rights Act was passed (1984), the American household median income was $22,415 per year. The median income for non-Hispanic white households was $24,138 per year; for Blacks, $13,471.  Black household median income was 55.8 percent of non-Hispanic white households. In 2004, the annual American household median income was $44,334. The median yearly income for non-Hispanic white households was $48,910; for blacks it was $30,095. Black household median income was 61.5 percent of non-Hispanic whites.

In 2014, the annual American median income was $53,657 per year. The median yearly income for non-Hispanic White households was $60.256; for Black households, $35,398.  Black household income was 58.7 percent of what Whites made. In 2020, the American household median income was $67,521 per year.  The median income for non-Hispanic White households was $74.912; for Blacks households, $45,870. Black household median income was 61 percent of white households in 2020.

* At no time from 1959 through 2020 have whites and blacks come close to having equal income*.

This is not something blacks have done to ourselves. It's time you racists faced reality.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

DBA said:


> What excuses am I making?


The better question is what excuses don't you make.


----------



## gipper (Apr 21, 2022)

IM2 said:


> The lesson continues...
> 
> _"In 1965, Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s report, The Negro Family: The Case for National Action, attributed racial inequality as well as poverty and crime in the black community to family structure, particularly the prevalence of families headed by single mothers. Not only did research at the time cast doubt on this causality, but evidence over the last the 50 years demonstrates that rates of child poverty, educational attainment, and crime do not track rates of single parenthood. Thus, even though the share of children living with a single mother rose for all racial and ethnic groups through the mid-1990s and has remained high since then, school completion and youth arrests for violent crimes have declined significantly, while poverty rates have fluctuated according to economic conditions. Family structure does not drive racial inequity, and racial inequity persists regardless of family structure."_
> *-Amy Traub, Laura Sullivan, Tatjana Meschede and Thomas Shapiro, DEMOS, “The Asset Value of Whiteness: Understanding the Racial Wealth Gap.”*
> ...


Wrong. You have done it to yourself.

Your hate consumes you and makes you ignorant. You must be proud of these recent killings of whites by blacks.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 21, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Bullshit. Your  boy Flash says differently.
> 
> _ “I can say for sure that happens because I did it. Before retirement, I was an Engineer. For the last 20 years of my career, I was a Manager and Director and I hired hundreds of people. I reviewed well over a thousand resumes for all kinds of positions. Everything from Secretaries to Engineering Managers. Both Salary and Hourly. I always culled out the resumes with Black Ethnic names. Never shortlisted anybody with a Black Ethnic name. Never hired them.”_
> 
> ...


Congratulations, you found one stupid criminal who not only violated his company's hiring guidelines, but the law as well.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Oh really?  That's the only legal way to get money?


If there is another LEGAL way other than the very small percentage who inherit money, I've never heard of it.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> You've very naive.  You remember the Wells Fargo scandal from about 10 years ago.  I think the only person who got any money of it was one of the employee who was committing the wrongdoing.  He got more than a million but the customers got screwed.
> 
> I'm a database back-end developer so I see a lot of data - I've worked for several mortgage companies and the whole subprime market was created to make more money off of poorer people.  Black people have traditionally been assumed to be poor risks so the financial institutions charge black people more, however when you're poor everything costs you more.  It really seems backwards, just like when in the more affluent areas the price of gas is a lot lower than in the poorer neighborhoods.
> 
> Look it up, this is United States history.


A lot of the reason things cost more in poor neighborhoods is the businesses have a higher risk of theft and vandalism.  It costs more to do business there.


----------



## monkrules (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> So you think black people act like rabid animals....right?


Try to be honest, for once in your fucking life. Here is my statement. Have a 7 year old read and explain it to you:

" But many of the negative views whites might hold about black people come into being as a direct result of the horrible behavior *many*, especially younger, blacks engage in."

I stand by that statement. It is 100% true.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The whole subprime mortgage industry was created by Democrats who, in the search for “equity,” demanded that banks lend money to blacks who wouldn’t qualify under the normal requirements so they could own houses at a rate equivalent to white people.
> 
> This is what happens when you demand ”equal outcomes” without qualifications.


Not just blacks, but other minorities as well. There are people of all races that don't have the background to own a house.  They don't understand how expensive it can be and how much maintenance has to be done constantly.  I didn't understand it when I bought my first house.  Fortunately, I disregarded the realtor's insistence that I buy the most expensive house I could qualify for (this was the beginning of the sub-prime mess) and bought a house well within my ability to pay and I had the money to pay for repairs an upkeep until I learned how to do it myself.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

monkrules said:


> Try to be honest, for once in your fucking life. Here is my statement. Have a 7 year old read and explain it to you:
> 
> " But many of the negative views whites might hold about black people come into being as a direct result of the horrible behavior *many*, especially younger, blacks engage in."
> 
> I stand by that statement. It is 100% true.


And many more younger whites.....right?


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Because they have racist views about black people


Even black employers?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Even black employers?


Huh?


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 21, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Why don't you want me to talk about my ancestors when you have talked about your family members?  I know you believe that slavery was a LONG LONG time ago but one of my cousins who I met several decades ago (1984ish) came from parents who lived on the Middleton Plantation.  That's where one half of my family originated.
> 
> So no, you don't get to talk about your family and how they pulled themselves up by their bootstraps (while not being black) and tell me not to talk about my family whom I'm proud of because they took what they learned while in captivity and used that knowledge and those skills to make a good life for themselves elsewhere as building contractors, the first African Americans to be licensed as such there in their home state.
> 
> ...


Was your cousin a slave?  He would have had to been 120 years old or so to have been born a slave.  It's more likely he was the son or grandson of sharecroppers working the land for a percentage of the crops grown by them.  A lot of poor people of all races sharecropped in the nineteenth century.  My uncle's neighbor sharecropped my uncle's farm because while my uncle loved living in the country he wasn't interested in farming.  So, he allowed his farmer neighbor to work the land and they split the profits form the crop.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> So you think black people act like rabid animals....right?


Some certainly do, as do some Whites, Latinos, Asians and Native Americans.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Some certainly do, as do some Whites, Latinos, Asians and Native Americans.


That's nice.  He only mentioned blacks


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> I put the troll on ignore.  Obviously mentally ill.


I have him in ignore, too. I just knew what he said by your response.


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> So you think black people act like rabid animals....right?


I wouldn't but how would you describe this behavior?  You do understand what this table is showing, right?


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I have him in ignore, too. I just knew what he said by your response.


It's my fault.  I wound him up in another thread and he's taking it out on others.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Not just blacks, but other minorities as well. There are people of all races that don't have the background to own a house.  They don't understand how expensive it can be and how much maintenance has to be done constantly.  I didn't understand it when I bought my first house.  Fortunately, I disregarded the realtor's insistence that I buy the most expensive house I could qualify for (this was the beginning of the sub-prime mess) and bought a house well within my ability to pay and I had the money to pay for repairs an upkeep until I learned how to do it myself.


I did the same. The lender was pushing me for the most expensive house I could afford, but I went with one about 15% less expensive that was more than adequate for me. I wanted to be able to still go on nice vacations, cover repairs, AND - this is important - save for my retirement. IOW, I made a responsible choice not to overextend myself.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> It's my fault.  I wound him up in another thread and he's taking it out on others.


You’ll notice he just “joined” a few days ago. Obviously a troll who was so obnoxious that he was banned.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> You’ll notice he just “joined” a few days ago. Obviously a troll who was so obnoxious that he was banned.


I love that that I get such a reaction.  LOL


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Congratulations, you found one stupid criminal who not only violated his company's hiring guidelines, but the law as well.


We all know he is not the only one. If you're in his position, you do the same stuff.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Was your cousin a slave?  He would have had to been 120 years old or so to have been born a slave.  It's more likely he was the son or grandson of sharecroppers working the land for a percentage of the crops grown by them.  A lot of poor people of all races sharecropped in the nineteenth century.  My uncle's neighbor sharecropped my uncle's farm because while my uncle loved living in the country he wasn't interested in farming.  So, he allowed his farmer neighbor to work the land and they split the profits form the crop.



Bullshit. Things were not the same between black and white sharecroppers. Let's stop pretending that slavery was all of it.


----------



## DBA (Apr 21, 2022)

IM2 said:


> The better question is what excuses don't you make.



I don't need excuses and I'm not making any.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

gipper said:


> Wrong. You have done it to yourself.
> 
> Your hate consumes you and makes you ignorant. You must be proud of these recent killings of whites by blacks.


The facts say you are the ignorant one. Your comments prove it even more.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

DBA said:


> I don't need excuses and I'm not making any.


But you make them and deny the truth of history.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 21, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Reality. When you shoot rockets into my yard, don't be surprised when I drop a bomb on your garage.


Um, what does that have to do with your imaginary sky friend, exactly?  Oh never mind.  



Lisa558 said:


> Asians have it the worst because they are the ones who are getting the best grades and scores, and thus they have a target on their back as leftists figure out a way to exclude them from being admitted to prestigious programs. That’s what the SCOTUS case is all about: whether it is fair for Harvard to have designed a “personality test” with questions they could score blacks higher on and Asians lower, and then rejected Asians on the grounds they were unlikeable.


And then Harvard will just find another way to achieve diversity... 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> I could care less what they believe as long as they stop their crying and demanding change from everybody else, and as long as they quit invading white areas. There are just some people that refuse to acknowledge their own faults. I hear it all the time on my scanner. When there's a shooting or a physical attack, the police tell dispatch nobody will cooperate with them. Hey, if that's the environment you want to live in, fine by me, as long as you don't bring it to where I live which they have.



Given the level of misconduct of the police, no wonder no one cooperates with them...  

I got to know a young man through my resume business who spent 10 years in prison because the police beat a confession out of one of his friends.  The corrupt DA went along with it, and it wasn't until some kids at Northwestern actually did the hard work and investigated.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Correct. If there is such racism against blacks, how is it some blacks make it just fine and others don't? It's the same in the white community. There are whites that became wealthy, very wealthy, middle-class and poor. It has nothing to do with race, or in our case, ethnic background. It has to do with personal decisions.



For those playing along at home, Welfare Ray is on disability, lives in a slum, and hates his neighbors. 



Lisa558 said:


> And I asked that question before of our leftists who insist that the blacks who remain poor are so due to race: Why then did most blacks move out of poverty and into the middle class and up?



Wrong question- better question- why did it take close to 150 years after slavery ended for them to even START to climb out.  



Lisa558 said:


> The answer comes back, “they moved up despite racism.” Then let’s dive deeper. How were they able to succeed despite racism”? The answer is that they made the right choices and took advantage of the opportunities available to them.


But why should they have to work hard to overcome racism? Shit, when they don't make the bad decisions, stay in school, and get slightly lower scores than little Chang, you whine about how poor Chang is being discriminated against if they get into college.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 21, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Um, what does that have to do with your imaginary sky friend, exactly?  Oh never mind.
> 
> 
> And then Harvard will just find another way to achieve diversity...
> ...


Is it more important for someone to be qualified for a job or position or more important to be the preferred gender or minority to satisfy diversity?


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 21, 2022)

DBA said:


> So just to sum up, discriminating against blacks was terribly wrong, which I agree, so we need to discriminate against whites now to makeup for that. Two wrongs equal = right in your world.



Uh, Wait.  Checking my skin tone.  Yup, still the same pasty-white it's been for the last 60 years. 
Nobody whipped me today.. nobody is going to whip me tomorrow.  
Nobody refused to give me a job because of my skin color
No cops pulled me over because of my skin color. 
Nobody looked at me with suspicion because I went into a store. 

Sorry, setting a few jobs or seats in college aside for black folks is NOWHERE NEAR what white people did to them for the last 400 years.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Not just blacks, but other minorities as well. There are people of all races that don't have the background to own a house.  They don't understand how expensive it can be and how much maintenance has to be done constantly.  I didn't understand it when I bought my first house.  Fortunately, I disregarded the realtor's insistence that I buy the most expensive house I could qualify for (this was the beginning of the sub-prime mess) and bought a house well within my ability to pay and I had the money to pay for repairs an upkeep until I learned how to do it myself.



They didn't have the financial experience either.  They had no idea how much their mortgage would go up by 2% or so since most of the loans were on an ARM.  They also didn't have the intelligence to hire somebody to explain it to them.  

The trend since then has been renting.  Great for me as a landlord, but now other landlords are taking advantage of this, and charging outrageous prices for their rental units.  No matter what they charge, people are too happy just to find a place.  In fact California has limits on how high they can charge for rents.  

The last time I had an open unit was over 6 years ago.  Nobody leaves.  When I put the ad out in the middle of winter, I had over 14 replies the next day; some saying they'd take the place sight unseen.  Others saying they would pay me more rent than I was asking, or offered double security deposit.  It was nuts.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> They didn't have the financial experience either.  They had no idea how much their mortgage would go up by 2% or so since most of the loans were on an ARM.  They also didn't have the intelligence to hire somebody to explain it to them.
> 
> The trend since then has been renting.  Great for me as a landlord, but now other landlords are taking advantage of this, and charging outrageous prices for their rental units.  No matter what they charge, people are too happy just to find a place.  In fact California has limits on how high they can charge for rents.
> 
> The last time I had an open unit was over 6 years ago.  Nobody leaves.  When I put the ad out in the middle of winter, I had over 14 replies the next day; some saying they'd take the place sight unseen.  Others saying they would pay me more rent than I was asking, or offered double security deposit.  It was nuts.


I think ARMs should be abolished. Ignorant and/or greedy homebuyers chop off more than they can chew, and then run into problems as interest rates rise.

I say that if you don’t qualify for a loan with a fixed rate, and that your loan-to-income ratio is so borderline that the only way you buy the house is with an ARM a percentage point less, you have no business closing on that loan.

IMHO.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

monkrules said:


> The worthless clown has a few idiotic lines he uses over and over again. It's obvious he's included in the "85" statistics.
> 
> Now he's earned his place on my Sambo List. He'll like that. It's probably the only thing he's actually *earned* in his entire life. Lol...


He sounds like an adolescent.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 21, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Is it more important for someone to be qualified for a job or position or more important to be the preferred gender or minority to satisfy diversity?



This looks like a job for Resume-Man! 

You work on the assumption that those two things are mutually exclusive.  When you get a job posting, you have hundreds of resumes that come in.  There would be NO PROBLEM finding a person who both fulfills a diversity quota AND meets the bare minimum requirements of the job.  

I've known ONE person who I believe was hired as an affirmative Action hire who wasn't qualified for her job, and frankly, her resume was pretty darned good.  (in practice, she was kind of out of her depth). 

On the other hand, I have seen jobs given to people who were relatives, friends or lovers of managers who were in no way, shape or form qualified for their positions.  No way to fire them, you had to work around them. 

Of course, assuming you are dealing with a legitimate job search, and not one where they've found an internal candidate and they are just going through the motions (Happens way too often), the only thing a resume proves is who hired the best resume writer.  And, yes, a white person is more likely to be able to spend the $300.00 or so to hire a resume writer who knows how to beat the Applicant Tracking Software and make them eye-catching enough for the 30 seconds a real human might read them. 

Now, we've already discussed surveys that have shown that in blind tests, resumes with identical qualifications, but were split between "White" and "Black" names, the white names get 50% more responses.  

White privilege creeps into other sections, as well.  White people are more likely to be able to buy nice suits for an interview, while a poorer person is going to buy something off the rack.  They are more likely to have connections, as I've said.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 21, 2022)

DBA said:


> I don't need excuses and I'm not making any.



Who needs excuses when you have privilege?


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Is it more important for someone to be qualified for a job or position or more important to be the preferred gender or minority to satisfy diversity?


Why do whites like you ask this question? Do you not understand the real way things have happened?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

IM2 said:


> The lesson continues...
> 
> _"In 1965, Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s report, The Negro Family: The Case for National Action, attributed racial inequality as well as poverty and crime in the black community to family structure, particularly the prevalence of families headed by single mothers. Not only did research at the time cast doubt on this causality, but evidence over the last the 50 years demonstrates that rates of child poverty, educational attainment, and crime do not track rates of single parenthood. Thus, even though the share of children living with a single mother rose for all racial and ethnic groups through the mid-1990s and has remained high since then, school completion and youth arrests for violent crimes have declined significantly, while poverty rates have fluctuated according to economic conditions. Family structure does not drive racial inequity, and racial inequity persists regardless of family structure."_
> *-Amy Traub, Laura Sullivan, Tatjana Meschede and Thomas Shapiro, DEMOS, “The Asset Value of Whiteness: Understanding the Racial Wealth Gap.”*
> ...



The only people responsible for their own income are the people themselves.  If you dropped out of school and are worth a shit on the job, how is that anybody else's fault but your own?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> It’s like when adults still blame their parents when they have problems. At some point, you’ve got to grow up and admit that you make your own choices.
> 
> I just spoke with a 60-year-old man who complained to me that his parents should have encouraged him to go to law school. Grow up!



It seems to be inherent among leftists. I guess that's why over 90% of blacks vote that way.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

IM2 said:


> I am showing fact. You are not. Nothing you have posted was anything but your opinion or information that supports your opinion. I live with this shit white boy. You look at it from the outside and with your own personal racism. Nothing you say has anything to do with black poverty. You cite felony rates, but the criminal justice system has been shown to be racist by studies done by professionals in the field. So your citing that by itself shows how racism creates poverty for black people.



Oh, so now you're adding to your fairy tales, huh?  Like our police just pick up blacks at random, charge them with a felony, and courts sentence them to prison.  Do all blacks believe "denial" is a river in Egypt?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

monkrules said:


> The worthless clown has a few idiotic lines he uses over and over again. It's obvious he's included in the "85" statistics.
> 
> Now he's earned his place on my Sambo List. He'll like that. It's probably the only thing he's actually *earned* in his entire life. Lol...



That's the key.  If everybody would ignore trolls, they eventually get bored and go away.  As long as you give these kids attention, they get what they came here for.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> That's the key.  If everybody would ignore trolls, they eventually get bored and go away.  As long as you give these kids attention, they get what they came here for.


I know.  I hate trolls


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

*"Asians have it the worst because they are the ones who are getting the best grades and scores, and thus they have a target on their back as leftists figure out a way to exclude them from being admitted to prestigious programs. That’s what the SCOTUS case is all about: whether it is fair for Harvard to have designed a “personality test” with questions they could score blacks higher on and Asians lower, and then rejected Asians on the grounds they were unlikeable."*

This affirmative action benefactor doesn't know what the hell she's talking about.

Let us look at the particulars in Students for Fair Admissions v. President & Fellows of Harvard College. 

In this case, the contention is that Asians are discriminated against based on the number of Asians turned down for Harvard admission. More than 30,000 students each year apply to Harvard. In 2019, there were 36,000 applicants for 1,600 slots.27 That meant 34,400 students of all races were not admitted. The claim is Asians get excluded to add black and Hispanic students. Ironically the claim is not made about Asians being passed over for white legacy students. Students for Fair Admissions claimed that Harvard violated Title VI of the Civil Rights Act.28 Title VI “prohibits discrimination based on race, color, and national origin in federal financial assistance programs and activities.”29  Here is where the claim gets sticky. But before we get to that, we need to understand what courts use as regulations guiding a decision in cases such as this.

It is time to look at Blum's claim. He claims Asians are discriminated against in admissions. Harvard admission numbers do not support his claim. *Asians are 6 percent of the American population, but they were 25.9 percent of the students entering Harvard in 2021. That is a full ten percentage points more than African Americans (15.9%) and more than double the percentage of both Hispanics(12.5%) and Native Americans(11%). In fact, there were more Asians admitted into Harvard than Hispanics and Native Americans combined.* Additionally, a study published by the National Bureau of Economic Research and reported on the NBC.com website on September 20, 2019, revealed this:

_ “Using publicly released reports, we examine the preferences Harvard gives for recruited athletes, legacies, those on the dean’s interest list, and children of faculty and staff (ALDCs). Among white admits, over 43% are ALDC. Among admits who are African American, Asian American, and Hispanic, the share is less than 16% each. *Our model of admissions shows that roughly three quarters of white ALDC admits would have been rejected if they had been treated as white non-ALDCs*. Removing preferences for athletes and legacies would significantly alter the racial distribution of admitted students, with the share of white admits falling and all other groups rising or remaining unchanged.” _

 Here, we see that whites are provided entry by a plethora of other preferences they would not qualify for if not for connections they have due to their race. The study shows that Asians are not adversely impacted because Harvard must admit blacks and Hispanics that are presumably unqualified. *Instead, we see white ALDC students who would not qualify under any other circumstance who get accepted at more than double the percentage of Asians, Blacks, Hispanics, and Native Americans who meet the same criteria.*

Students for Fair Admissions, Inc. v. President & Fellows of Harvard College, _First Circuit Holds that Harvard’s Admissions Program Does Not Violate the Civil Rights Act.,_ Students for Fair Admissions, Inc. v. President & Fellows of Harvard College

_Admissions Statistics, A Brief Profile of the Admitted Class of 2025, Harvard welcomes students from across the country and all over_, Admissions Statistics

Daniella Silva, _Study on Harvard finds 43 percent of white students are legacy, athletes, related to donors or staff_, Study finds 43 percent of Harvard's white students are legacy, athletes, related to donors or staff

Peter Arcidiacono, Josh Kinsler, Tyler Ransom, National Bureau Of Economic Research, _Legacy And Athlete Preferences At Harvard_, Working Paper 26316, Legacy and Athlete Preferences at Harvard


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I think ARMs should be abolished. Ignorant and/or greedy homebuyers chop off more than they can chew, and then run into problems as interest rates rise.
> 
> I say that if you don’t qualify for a loan with a fixed rate, and that your loan-to-income ratio is so borderline that the only way you buy the house is with an ARM a percentage point less, you have no business closing on that loan.
> 
> IMHO.



That's actually what we did in this country.  But blacks complained about discrimination much like they do here, so Bill Clinton had his HUD secretary (Andrew Cuomo) the youngest and most inexperienced of any other secretary, lower bank standards so blacks could qualify for home loans.  They couldn't lower them for one race of people, they had to lower them for everybody, so they all jumped in on the bandwagon.  

As we both know, this led to the housing bubble and bust.  You didn't even need a credit check or down payment to buy a house.  Walk into just about any bank and they handed you money.  But the only possible way for them to have some security were ARM"s.  If we go back to prime loans, blacks will complain once again about discrimination because they don't have the education to understand loan standards.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 21, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> This looks like a job for Resume-Man!
> 
> You work on the assumption that those two things are mutually exclusive.  When you get a job posting, you have hundreds of resumes that come in.  There would be NO PROBLEM finding a person who both fulfills a diversity quota AND meets the bare minimum requirements of the job.
> 
> ...


So you assume a poor person is Black.  Wow, how racist is that.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> That's actually what we did in this country.  But blacks complained about discrimination much like they do here, so Bill Clinton had his HUD secretary (Andrew Cuomo) the youngest and most inexperienced of any other secretary, lower bank standards so blacks could qualify for home loans.  They couldn't lower them for one race of people, they had to lower them for everybody, so they all jumped in on the bandwagon.
> 
> As we both know, this led to the housing bubble and bust.  You didn't even need a credit check or down payment to buy a house.  Walk into just about any bank and they handed you money.  But the only possible way for them to have some security were ARM"s.  If we go back to prime loans, blacks will complain once again about discrimination because they don't have the education to understand loan standards.


That's not true


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> That's actually what we did in this country.  But blacks complained about discrimination much like they do here, so Bill Clinton had his HUD secretary (Andrew Cuomo) the youngest and most inexperienced of any other secretary, lower bank standards so blacks could qualify for home loans.  They couldn't lower them for one race of people, they had to lower them for everybody, so they all jumped in on the bandwagon.
> 
> As we both know, this led to the housing bubble and bust.  You didn't even need a credit check or down payment to buy a house.  Walk into just about any bank and they handed you money.  But the only possible way for them to have some security were ARM"s.  If we go back to prime loans, blacks will complain once again about discrimination because they don't have the education to understand loan





Ray From Cleveland said:


> That's actually what we did in this country.  But blacks complained about discrimination much like they do here, so Bill Clinton had his HUD secretary (Andrew Cuomo) the youngest and most inexperienced of any other secretary, lower bank standards so blacks could qualify for home loans.  They couldn't lower them for one race of people, they had to lower them for everybody, so they all jumped in on the bandwagon.
> 
> As we both know, this led to the housing bubble and bust.  You didn't even need a credit check or down payment to buy a house.  Walk into just about any bank and they handed you money.  But the only possible way for them to have some security were ARM"s.  If we go back to prime loans, blacks will complain once again about discrimination because they don't have the education to understand loan standards.


Those were the days of “no doc” loans, also. You were on your honor to declare your income….no proof required.

This whole thing also shows the danger of letting “outcome” be the driver for decisions, rather than qualifications. Harris once said that that racism is not over until blacks have the same outcomes as whites. This of course feeds the myth that the only reason, or even the main reason, that the subgroup of blacks remain poor is due to racism rather than their own life choices.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Those were the days of “no doc” loans, also. You were on your honor to declare your income….no proof required.
> 
> This while thing also shows the danger of letting “outcome” be the driver for decisions, rather than qualifications. Harris once said that that racism is not over until blacks have the same outcomes as whites. This of course feeds the myth that the only reason, or even the main reason, that the subgroup of blacks remain poor is due to racism rather than their own life choices.


Why do they make bad lifestyle choices?


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> I wouldn't but how would you describe this behavior?  You do understand what this table is showing, right?
> 
> View attachment 634151


It shows you used faulty math to create a false claim.


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

IM2 said:


> It shows you used faulty math to create a false claim.


Feel free to show your numbers.


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Why do they make bad lifestyle choices?


Did Lisa say lifestyle?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Did Lisa say lifestyle?


Many times


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Many times


Not in the post I read.  You know... the one you were replying to.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

*The problem is white racism and racists trying to say it isn't is like the fox telling the chickens he doesn't like poultry. The bad choice continues to be made by whites who practice racism.*


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Not in the post I read.  You know... the one you were replying to.


That's nice


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Why do they make bad lifestyle choices?


Most of them don’t. Most are middle class.  But as far as the ones that do, who knows? Maybe lack of judgment, poor motivation, no discipline, parents who didn’t instill good values, maybe not very bright, whatever. Same as poor whites who make bad decisions. But it sure isn’t due to racism.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Feel free to show your numbers.


The numbers show that whites commit more total crimes.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Did Lisa say lifestyle?


Good catch. I said “life choices.”


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Most of them don’t. Most are middle class.  But as far as the ones that do, who knows? Maybe lack of judgment, poor motivation, no discipline, parents who didn’t instill good values, maybe not very bright, whatever. Same as poor whites who make bad decisions. But it sure isn’t due to racism.


So it can never ever have anytthing to do with racism....right?


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Most of them don’t. Most are middle class.  But as far as the ones that do, who knows? Maybe lack of judgment, poor motivation, no discipline, parents who didn’t instill good values, maybe not very bright, whatever. Same as poor whites who make bad decisions. But it sure isn’t due to racism.


The poor choice is made by people like you. Racism is a bad lifestyle.


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> That's nice


Not really.  It was dishonest of you to change what she actually said.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Not really.  It was dishonest of you to change what she actually said.


Call a cop.  Lol


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> So it can never ever have anytthing to do with racism....right?


Do you know what an external locus of control is?


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Call a cop.  Lol


I'm satisfied with calling you out on it.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Do you know what an external locus of control is?


Is my question invisible?  Lol


----------



## IM2 (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> So it can never ever have anytthing to do with racism....right?


How would she know? She's never faced it. It's easy to be white and female living off hubbys dime and talk bullshit.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> I'm satisfied with calling you out on it.


Okay dokey pokey


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Good catch. I said “life choices.”


I know.  But that didn't suit his purposes.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> I know.  But that didn't suit his purposes.


HAHAHAHA


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Is my question invisible?  Lol


I don't think so, but it was a textbook example of an external locus of control.  

So do you are don't you know what an external locus of control is?


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> HAHAHAHA


I agree.  It was funny.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> I don't think so, but it was a textbook example of an external locus of control.
> 
> So do you are don't you know what an external locus of control is?


Do you have a,question for me?


I cant see it


It must be invisible


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Do you have a,question for me?
> 
> 
> I cant see it
> ...


Yes, I already asked it.  Twice.  

I'm surprised you have never heard of an external locus of control since you have one.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Yes, I already asked it.  Twice.
> 
> I'm surprised you have never heard of an external locus of control since you have one.


Where?

Was it after you answered mine?


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Where?
> 
> Was it after you answered mine?


They are still there.  Posts #1207 and #1214.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> They are still there.  Posts #1207 and #1214.


So is my question


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

IM2 said:


> The numbers show that whites commit more total crimes.



Which is a completely stupid statement given whites are five times the black population.


----------



## ding (Apr 21, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> So is my question


It's the answer to your question.  If a hard life is a result of racism, what are you going to do about it?  Feel sorry for yourself and give up?  Thereby transferring your control to an external source?


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Not really.  It was dishonest of you to change what she actually said.


The leftists always change what their opponent says, and you’re right….it’s a very dishonest (and unfair) way to debate. It’s a way of making the other person defend themself against something they didn’t say, and deflects from the point.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

ding said:


> It's the answer to your question.  If a hard life is a result of racism, what are you going to do about it?  Feel sorry for yourself and give up?  Thereby transferring your control to an external source?


Boy, did my grandparents ever have a hard life. Fleeing Jewish persecution overseas, they arrived here young, penniless, and uneducated, to work 12 hours a day in sweatshops. When they became parents themselves, they lost half their family to Hitler, had to hear how FDR turned away a boatload of Jews back to Europe because the country didn’t want no more Jews, and still..…EVERY ONE OF THEIR KIDS GRADUATED FROM COLLEGE!

Nothing libs hate more than a persecuted minority rising above it and achieving successful lives.


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Boy, did my grandparents ever have a hard life. Fleeing Jewish persecution overseas, they arrived here penniless and uneducated, to work 12 hours a day in sweatshops. As young parents themselves, they lost half their family to Hitler, had to hear how FDR turned away a boatload of Jews back to Europe because the country didn’t want no more Jews, and still..…EVERY ONE OF THEIR KIDS GRADUATED FROM COLLEGE!
> 
> Nothing libs hate more than a persecuted minority rising above it and achieving successful lives.


Why don't you direct your complaints of ‘Jewish oppression’ to you fellow white brethren ? It was the *REAL DEAL* white supremacists who killed Jewish people. Yet your up supporting the very system that killed your people.

Your grandparents came with billon dollars worth of whiteness.

*Black people have never enslaved or oppressed Jewish people.*

Allow me to introduce you to this white Jewish man. His name is Bernie Madoff







He got caught stealing 65 000 000 000 dollars.

*65 billion dollars is more money even if you added up the money robbed by every single black robber for the past 200 years in the USA*

De Niro made a movie about his life "Wizard Of Lies" a few years bk

When white people do crime it's glorified. They're seen as cool and cunning. GoodFellas ? Sopranos ? Al Capone ? Bonnie and Clyde....anyone ?

It's also good to remember that one Bernie Madoff can actually put whole towns out of business, with all its jobs and houses and population, black or white. And they have done so.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 21, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> It's also good to remember that one Bernie Madoff can actually put whole towns out of business, with all its jobs and houses and population, black or white. And they have done so.



So have blacks.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So have blacks.


Excellent point!

The difference is that when Bernie Madoff did that horrible thing, Jews were appalled. They didn’t make excuses or say “antisemitism made him do it.”

Compare that to, for example, the black mayor of Baltimore who, as she observed black thugs destroy her city, actually said “give them space to destroy.”


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 21, 2022)

You know how these leftists cry about “poor, oppressed blacks” and how they don’t have all the generational wealth transfer of whites?

Well, the median inheritance of whites is $88,000, and the median inheritance of blacks is $85,000! Almost identical. (Median is a better reflection than average, in which a small number of very rich people skew it up.) 

The fact is that for the vast majority of people in this country, there is little difference between blacks and whites when it comes to inheritance. Interestingly, it is the Latinos pulling up the rear, with a median of just over $50,000.









						Average Inheritance and 5 Tips for Leaving One to an Heir
					

Knowing the average inheritance can help you determine the amount of money or number of assets to pass along to your heirs.




					www.annuity.org


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 21, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So have blacks.



Bernie Madoff was just a common punk.

Notice how romanticism played a big part of it. Madoff was used shows how white crooks are envied for their slyness and intelligence. He was described as a criminal mastermind. I often wonder if Madoff was a black guy named Jerome Jenkins, how long would he have gotten away with it?

*Answer = Probably a couple of weeks......... if that *

A negro with money in the bank not asking for _‘handouts’_ the cashiers would have called the police. This is why I don't really have much empathy for whites who get fked over by other whites. You allow all these fked up white ppl to run riot and then like Lisa558 then wants to complain about it years later

Bernie Madoff is one of the biggest criminals ever and yet his doings are seen somehow “victimless” even though he stole billions which means tens of thousands lost their pention funds, money, houses, life savings etc.

Yet we see next to no resources dedicated to the investigation of organized and primarily white crime.

Laws are basically for the blk people to keep us controlled, off-balance, in line, in check and incarcerated.


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558
*Compare that to, for example, the black mayor of Baltimore who, as she observed black thugs destroy her city, actually said “give them space to destroy.”*

I agree with the riots in Baltimore. 

You have this belief that black people deserve to be killed and mistreated and should expect it. We are not gonna allow whites and law enforcement to come in and kill us and frame us, plant evidence and kill and harm our children

And we should just sit bk and accept this ? Get real

A white cop (_Micheal A Wood_) was a white retired White American police sergeant he noted what he saw while serving on the Baltimore police force from 2003 to 2014

He confirmed much of what many Black Americans in Baltimore have long known.

The Police :

Racially profile.·
Lie.
Do not see Black and poor people as real human being.
Are an occupying force in Black ghettos.
See the people there as the enemy, not as citizens to protect and serve.
Use unspoken arrest quota.
Each officer is expected to make so many arrests a month.
Do not care much about the US Constitution.
Are badly trained.
Fear Black males.
He found that arrests and crime bear little relationship to each other.

When he was put on patrol in a well-to-do White neighbourhood he would go to a nearby Black neighbourhood to make his arrest quota.

Not because there was more crime there but because he could get away with arresting blacks for little things, like throwing a cigarette on the floor or playing basketball in the street. Also the police were told not to enforce drug laws against white people


He did not see himself as racist but took part in a racist institution by following orders. And these orders came from top. Who were supported by politicians who represented not the people but moneyed interests like the prison-industrial complex that need 90% occupancy.


----------



## monkrules (Apr 21, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Excellent point!
> 
> The difference is that when Bernie Madoff did that horrible thing, Jews were appalled. They didn’t make excuses or say “antisemitism made him do it.”
> 
> Compare that to, for example, the black mayor of Baltimore who, as she observed black thugs destroy her city, actually said “give them space to destroy.”


What an incredibly disgusting and incompetent woman she is. I still get angry when I'm reminded of her stupidity.

This incompetent's name and decision should *never* be forgotten. She is former Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I have that black racist on ignore. I’m glad you agree he’s a disgusting POS


Just another thing you're wrong about.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The neighborhoods were segregated and thus the schools.  The only way to desegregate the schools was busing.
> 
> That happened in my city.  When it started whites moved out of the city into the suburbs.  Back then, few women drove and most all households were one car families that the father took to work everyday.  In the event of a problem a woman couldn't just hop in a car and drive across town to get her child, so the people with money left.  The people who didn't have the money were forced to stay.
> 
> So what happens to a city when all the people with money leave and the only people left are those with no money?  The legacy of busing still haunts our city until this day.


What is the state of the neighborhood now?


----------



## IM2 (Apr 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Which is a completely stupid statement given whites are five times the black population.


Not it shows just how far whites like you go to excuse the bad choices of your race. You don't get to commit more crimes because there are more of you. You have 17 times the wealth, own damn near everything, are represented at every level in the American system. Whites should not be committing more crimes than everybody else.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 22, 2022)

DBA said:


> So just to sum up, discriminating against blacks was terribly wrong,  which I agree, so we need to discriminate against whites now to makeup for that. Two wrongs equal = right in your world.


If you can show me where in the text of the executive order that created affirmative action, it states that blacks or any race are to be given preferential treatment over whites I will concede your point.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> No, to refute my claim that you black posters will never blame yourselves for your situation. I knew you couldn't which is why I asked.


What situation are you speaking of Ray?


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The difference between us is you offer opinion, and I offer fact.  It's like rock, paper scissors.  Facts and statistics beat opinion every single time.


Yeah, here we go - a current sampling of racial discrimination employment cases that have been settled (the bad guys were found to have actually committed the offenses they were accused of - they signed off on it)


> E-RACE AND OTHER EEOC INITIATIVES​Systemic​
> In March 2020,  Porous Materials, a manufacturer in Ithaca, NY, must pay $93,000 in monetary relief and report any future harassment allegations directly to the EEOC to settle claims that it engaged in pervasive harassment based on race, sex and national origin, according to a recent EEOC lawsuit.  The extreme bullying and harassment allegedly included a manager using racial slurs toward his employees, calling foreign workers “terrorists,” telling immigrants to leave America, and making unwanted sexual advances toward female employees.  The EEOC further claims the owner of Porous Materials did nothing to put a stop to the harassment.  _EEOC v. Porous Materials, Inc._, Civil Action No. 3:18-cv-01099 (N.D.N.Y. Mar. 3, 2020).
> 
> In March 2020,  Prewett Enterprises, Inc., doing business as B&P Enterprises, and Desoto Marine, LLC, rail services and disaster response companies, paid $250,000 and furnished other relief to settle a race harassment case brought by the EEOC. According to the EEOC's lawsuit, Prewett and Desoto supervisors and managers subjected African American employees to daily harassment and humiliation because of their race by calling them racially offensive and derogatory names and assigned Black employees the more dangerous job duties. Under the two-year consent decree, the businesses will revise their anti-racial harassment policies; create an 800-hotline number for employees to report complaints about discrimination, harassment and retaliation; and conduct exit interviews of employees who leave the company. The decree also mandates training of employees and the reporting of any future complaints of race harassment to the EEOC. _EEOC v. Prewett Enterprises, Inc. d/b/a B&P Enterprises, and Desoto Marine,LLC_, Civil Action No. 3:18-cv-213 (N.D. Miss. Mar. 18, 2020).
> ...


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 22, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> A lot of the reason things cost more in poor neighborhoods is the businesses have a higher risk of theft and vandalism.  It costs more to do business there.


True, but I was speaking of in general like here:
The True Cost of Being Poor in America


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 22, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Was your cousin a slave?  He would have had to been 120 years old or so to have been born a slave.  It's more likely he was the son or grandson of sharecroppers working the land for a percentage of the crops grown by them.  A lot of poor people of all races sharecropped in the nineteenth century.  My uncle's neighbor sharecropped my uncle's farm because while my uncle loved living in the country he wasn't interested in farming.  So, he allowed his farmer neighbor to work the land and they split the profits form the crop.


Her parents were slaves, yes, from the Middleton Plantation.  She actually wrote a book about her life and experiences there and there is a chart at the end of the book that shows the various branches of the family, including my grandfather's branch.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 22, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> If there is another LEGAL way other than the very small percentage who inherit money, I've never heard of it.


Gifts from family members, loans from family members, loans from the bank, marrying into money, etc.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> You know how these leftists cry about “poor, oppressed blacks” and how they don’t have all the generational wealth transfer of whites?
> 
> Well, the median inheritance of whites is $88,000, and the median inheritance of blacks is $85,000! Almost identical. (Median is a better reflection than average, in which a small number of very rich people skew it up.)
> 
> ...


Please excuse me newsvine for the language I am about to use on the "woman."

Lisa, you're about an ignorant bitch. You compared median inheritance and just because that median is close you are trying to argue that racism isn't a problem.

There about around 20 million black families in America, less than 400,000 have a net worth of 1 million. There are more players in an 8 man football game than there are black billionaires. There are only 7 of them in this country. You ignorant ass racists keep taking about 13 percent when you talk stupid about crime, but blacks are 13 percent of the population and havev2.6 percent of the wealth. Your ignorant ass talks about medians inheritance as if the numbers are close to the same, but:

* “The U.S. racial wealth gap is substantial and is driven by public policy decisions.*_ According to our analysis of the SIPP data, in 2011 the median white household had $111,146 in wealth holdings, compared to just $7,113 for the median Black household and $8,348 for the median Latino household. From the continuing impact of redlining on American homeownership to the retreat from desegregation in public education, public policy has shaped these disparities, leaving them impossible to overcome without racially-aware policy change.” -_*DEMOS 

So if 50 blacks got inheritances and 850 whites do and the black median inheritance is 85,000 and the white inheritance is 88,000 that proves to you that everything is equal. My goodness, are you mentally handicapped? *


----------



## IM2 (Apr 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So have blacks.


Name 1 black who pulled a Bernie Madoff.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Excellent point!
> 
> The difference is that when Bernie Madoff did that horrible thing, Jews were appalled. They didn’t make excuses or say “antisemitism made him do it.”
> 
> Compare that to, for example, the black mayor of Baltimore who, as she observed black thugs destroy her city, actually said “give them space to destroy.”



That didn't happen in Baltimore. Whites imagined a stolen election and stormed the Capital over what they imagined. So you really need to consider shutting the fuck up.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 22, 2022)

monkrules said:


> That may be true.
> 
> But many of the negative views whites might hold about black people come into being as a direct result of the horrible behavior many, especially younger, blacks engage in. Thievery, all kinds of crime, brainless riots, smash and grabs, senseless murders, demanding free shit they HAVEN'T EARNED.
> 
> How can people be expected to hold positive views about people who insist on acting like rabid animals - and then try to blame others for their self-created problems? Fuck them.



*"How can people be expected to hold positive views about people who insist on acting like rabid animals - and then try to blame others for their self-created problems? Fuck them."*

*And this is what we're talking about. Whites have acted like rabid animals for the past 403 years and have created the problems in this country. Instead of taking responsibility for the problems they have created, we read a bunch of psychosis from idiots like you. So fuck YOU.*


----------



## IM2 (Apr 22, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Everyone has challenges and obstacles to overcome.  Winners get up when knocked down.  Losers whine and blame others.



Losers accept injustice and make excuses about how everyone has had obstacles.. Winners face truth and challenge injustice. Your ass would have hung himself like Brooks Hadley a long time ago had you faced what we do. The rules were made for you chump. Without that, you'd be less than zero.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yeah, that’s the bigotry of low expectations that is rampant among leftists. That the poster would compare able-bodied poor blacks who have Pell Grants available and Affirmative Action helping them get into prestigious programs as being “crippled” sure is telling!


Here the number one beneficiary of aa is talking to the number one benefactor of government preferences about somebody else being crippled. Saturday Night Live couldn't make a funnier script.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Most of them don’t. Most are middle class.  But as far as the ones that do, who knows? Maybe lack of judgment, poor motivation, no discipline, parents who didn’t instill good values, maybe not very bright, whatever. Same as poor whites who make bad decisions. But it sure isn’t due to racism.


Is this what you're talking about?  If you add up the percentages below they total just under 60%.  What about the other 40%?


> As of the 2010 Census, black households had *a median income of $32,068*,[6] which placed the median black household within the second income quintile.[6]​​27.3% of black households earned an income between $25,000 and $50,000,​15.2% earned between $50,000 and $75,000,​7.6% earned between $75,000 and $100,000, and​9.4% earned more than $100,000.[6]​​Though this reflects a great disparity, just under 6 in 10 of black men will make it to the middle class in America. So, black men are on a trajectory of reducing the wealth disparity in the America.[7]​​Although the composition of the Black middle class varies by definition, the Black middle class is typically divided into a *lower-middle class, core middle class, and an upper-middle class*.[8][9][10] The* black lower-middle class* is concentrated in *sales, clerical positions, and blue-collar occupations,*[8] while* the black upper-middle class (sometimes combined into the black upper class)*[11] is characterized by* highly educated professionals in white-collar occupations, such as health care professionals, lawyers, professors, and engineers.*[12][13]​


----------



## Turtlesoup (Apr 22, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> I am betting some WASP in the last century said the same thing about all the  Jews coming over from Europe.
> 
> you know, Criminal Foreigners like Meier Lansky and Bugsy Seigel
> 
> ...


We have an influx in immigrants because of our welfare system that gives them money for nothing----at the cost of taxpayers.   

We don't have enough jobs-----the immigrants especially illegals suppress wages as it is and it is expected that most low level jobs that immigrants take will be replaced with machines----followed by higher level jobs being replaced by machines creating a massive shortage of workers.   The US is filled up--we have to many people now as it is---more pollution, more disease, more crowding, more crime, less green space and less clean water are the result of this.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 22, 2022)

Turtlesoup said:


> We have an influx in immigrants because of our welfare system that gives them money for nothing----at the cost of taxpayers.
> 
> We don't have enough jobs-----the immigrants especially illegals suppress wages as it is and it is expected that most low level jobs that immigrants take will be replaced with machines----followed by higher level jobs being replaced by machines creating a massive shortage of workers.   The US is filled up--we have to many people now as it is---more pollution, more disease, more crowding, more crime, less green space and less clean water are the result of this.


It's not money for nothing, it's tax payer money to care for their minor children.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 22, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> If you can show me where in the text of the executive order that created affirmative action, it states that blacks or any race are to be given preferential treatment over whites I will concede your point.


He can't.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 22, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> What situation are you speaking of Ray?


Ray thinks we need to blame ourselves for how things are for blacks. Apparently Ray got a Jethro Bodine education.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 22, 2022)

*Do you racists not understand just how much whites have been given by the government? *


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 22, 2022)

IM2 said:


> He can't.


Of course he can't.  The last time this happened I was told that they didn't care that it wasn't in the text, it was HIS opinion that affirmative is racist and gives preferential treatment to black people and he's entitled to his opinion [as erroneously as that may be apparently]

This is what we're dealing with.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 22, 2022)

ALL RISE!

This Mornings lesson:

Would You "Conservative" White Females Shut Up About Racial Preferences? Because You are the ones Who have Benefitted the Most From Them

On June 17, 2013, Sally Kohn wrote an article in Time titled, _“Affirmative Action Has Helped White Women More Than Anyone.” _Kohn provides this historical backdrop for the implementation, including the reasons why President Johnson added women: _“Originally, women weren’t even included in legislation attempting to level the playing field in education and employment. The first affirmative-action measure in America was an executive order signed by President Kennedy in 1961 requiring that federal contractors “take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin.” In 1967, President Johnson amended this, and a subsequent measure included sex, recognizing that women also faced many discriminatory barriers and hurdles to equal opportunity.”  _ Kohn continues by stating that while* Affirmative Action has helped people of color, it has disproportionately benefitted white women.*

_“While people of color, individually and as groups, have been helped by affirmative action in the subsequent years, data and studies suggest women — white women in particular — __have benefited disproportionately. According to one study__, in 1995, 6 million women, the majority of whom were white, had jobs they wouldn’t have otherwise held but for affirmative action.” -_*Sally Kohn*

The National Womens Law Center did a study on Affirmatives Action and found that: _“Women of color have lagged particularly far behind in both employment and education. For example, in 1998, the median weekly salary for Black women was $400 compared to $468 for white women and $615 for white men. Hispanic women earned a median weekly income of only $337. Even in sectors where women have made inroads into management, minority women continue to be underrepresented. In the banking industry, only 2.6% of executive, managerial and administrative jobs were held by Black women, and 5% by Hispanic women, compared to 37.6% by white women. In the hospital industry, Black and Hispanic women each held 4.6% of these jobs, while white women held 50.2%. At the top, women of color represented only 11.2% of all corporate officers in Fortune 500 companies. Women of color also earn fewer college degrees than white women. In 1997, white women made up 39% of college undergraduates and 42% of graduate students; minority women were only 16% of undergraduates and 10% of graduate students.”_

Tim Wise had a paper p_ublished in the National Women’s Studies Association Journal in the fall of 1998 titled, “Is Sisterhood Conditional?: White Women and the Rollback of Affirmative Action.” His paper was about the reluctance of some white women to advocate for Affirmative Action despite the gains white women had achieved from the policy over the 30 years at that time, due to the policy.

“Thanks in large measure to affirmative action and civil rights protections that opened up previously restricted opportunities to women of all colors, from 1972-1993:_

_The percentage of women architects increased from 3% to nearly 19% of the total;_
_The percentage of women doctors more than doubled from 10% to 22% of all doctors;_
_The percentage of women lawyers grew from 4% to 23% of the national total;_
_The percentage of female engineers went from less than 1% to nearly 9%;_
_The percentage of female chemists grew from 10% to 30% of all chemists; and,_
_The percentage of female college faculty went from 28% to 42% of all faculty. _
_ Furthermore, since only 1983, the percentage of women business managers and professionals grew from 41% of all such persons, to 48%, while the number of female police officers more than doubled, from 6% to 13% (U.S. Department of Commerce, Bureau of the Census 1995, Table 649). According to a 1995 study, there are at least six million women — the overwhelming majority of them white — who simply wouldn’t have the jobs they have today, but for the inroads made by affirmative action (Cose 1997, 171). -_*Tim Wise*

*The increased number of white women graduating college then entering into higher-paying fields formerly dominated by men raised the earnings of white women. Since white men were already disproportionately represented in high-paying positions, as white women married those men, their earnings combined with his further increased white household wealth. White women have been the number one beneficiary of Affirmative Action.*


----------



## IM2 (Apr 22, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Of course he can't.  The last time this happened I was told that they didn't care that it wasn't in the text, it was HIS opinion that affirmative is racist and gives preferential treatment to black people and he's entitled to his opinion [as erroneously as that may be apparently]
> 
> This is what we're dealing with.


Yes. They are obtuse along with being ignorant.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 22, 2022)

Title 4 or IV of the social security act of 1935 provided grants to states as Aid To Dependent Children. Eventually the name of the program was changed to Aid to Families with Dependent Children. This was welfare folks. Assistance for single moms with children and no daddy at home. In 1935. Blacks were excluded. Aid to Dependent Children functioned mainly to provide federal grants to help the states with mothers’ aid laws that began in 1910.

The ADC plan was written by two ladies who had been former directors of what was at the time called the U.S. Children’s Bureau. The Children’s Bureau’s goal was to provide aid to all children whose mothers had no support from a husband no matter how they got into that position. From the Children's Bureau in 1910 until 1965, no one talked about how the welfare state was wrong and created the disintegration of the white family. I read no lectures about the irresponsible white father. The program was not denigrated as something creating dependence on government; it was seen as essential assistance needed to help women without husbands who had children. Only when the law required that others besides whites be included did the story change to how the welfare state was wrong and destructive.

Blacks paid taxes and were excluded from this program. Blacks paid for white women to sit at home and have babies. Blacks paid their money for irresponsible white men to hop from bed to bed impregnating women and taking no responsibility. Ask Dale Brown, the former LSU basketball coach, whose dad sexed his mom, and left her pregnant with Dale who she had to raise alone. So I really do think it's time for you racists to shut your damn mouths unless you're admitting how you wouldn't  be jack squat without the government.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 22, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Is this what you're talking about?  If you add up the percentages below they total just under 60%.  What about the other 40%?



testing


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 22, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam

For some reason, I can’t reply within your post about the median income of blacks, and the quintile breakdown, so I will make my points here:

1) So your point is that median black family income is lower, and substantially, than whites? Well, duh…..that’s because 25% of black families are living in poverty and 12% of whites are (2010 census, linked below). Nobody is arguing that blacks, on average, are not poorer. But this is the result when a population has 75% of babies born out of wedlock, and with a large percentage dropping out of school.

2) Still, according to the census data, only 25% of the black population is living in poverty. The majority of blacks are NOT the oppressed victims of racism you would have whites believe - they, like most whites, are working to middle class.

3) You are deflecting to say that blacks earn less, on average, and discussing quintiles, etc. Of COURSE they earn less. They are having OOW babies at triple the rates of whites, which in turn is correlates for low educational attainment, high crime, and poverty. Stop the behavior and choices that result in poverty, and 97% of the problem is solved.





__





						Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2010 - Income & Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau
					

Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2010



					www.census.gov


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 22, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Of course he can't.  The last time this happened I was told that they didn't care that it wasn't in the text, it was HIS opinion that affirmative is racist and gives preferential treatment to black people and he's entitled to his opinion [as erroneously as that may be apparently]
> 
> This is what we're dealing with.


OMG. You are actually denying that Affirmative Action isn’t used to figure out a way to reject higher-scoring whites and Asians over lower-scoring blacks? The language, clarified by the Supreme Court in the Grutter decision, specifically allows admissions committees to use minority race as a factor In deciding whom to admit.

But would it be safe for me to assume that since you deny AA advantages blacks and discriminates against whites and Asians, you will have no objection when the SCOTUS deems that AA is racist and abolishes it?

It’s pretty sad that Harvard was so determined to get less qualified blacks in and keep the high-achieving Asians out that they designed some bogus, subjective personality test, scored Asians lower, and then rejected them because they had “unlike-able personalities”?

Now be honest. What would your reaction be if a company or school were sued by blacks because they were hiring or admitting lesser-qualified whites ahead of them - and the defense the company or school gave was that “blacks are unlike-able”? You’d be screaming holy hell. But because the racism exhibited by Harvard went against Asians, then you’re fine with it.









						Affirmative Action and the Black Experience in America
					

Affirmative action permits the use of “minority” factors, such as race, in decisions regarding allocations of government employment and other public benefits. Blacks overwhelmingly favor these programs, but whites substantially disfavor special preferences for minorities, although they support...




					www.americanbar.org


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 22, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> It's not money for nothing, it's tax payer money to care for their minor children.


We know it‘s taxpayer money to support their children. But they are in this country illegally and shouldn’t even be here. That’s the point. We are $30T in debt, are printing money hand over and fist, and we should just accept foreigners who wouldn’t qualify for admission here through legal channels - many have criminal records or would be otherwise deemed to be a negative to our country - to sneak or lie their way in, and then support their children?

(Also, not sure what this has to do with blacks who remain in poverty due to their poor choices, as opposed to the false blame of racism.)


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 22, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Gifts from family members, loans from family members, loans from the bank, marrying into money, etc.


So? Blacks can do that too. The median inheritance d white families is $88,000 and blacks $85,000. Practically identical.

But if your point is that blacks, on average, have lower incomes and thus are not in the same position as whites to lend money to their family members, well, again….DUH. That’s what happens when you keep having babies at an OOW rate of 75%. It leads to poverty, or lower earnings, and then you don’t have money to lend.

As far as borrowing from banks, blacks and whites with the same collateral, income to debt ratios, credit rating, etc., both get approved for loans at the same rate. if blacks overall have lower approval rates, it’s because they have lower incomes, credit scores, whatever. It‘s purely a business decision.

All you’re doing is complaining about the consequences of blacks being poorer and sidestepping the reason: bad life choices - among the subset that remains poor.









						Average Inheritance and 5 Tips for Leaving One to an Heir
					

Knowing the average inheritance can help you determine the amount of money or number of assets to pass along to your heirs.




					www.annuity.org


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> That's actually what we did in this country. But blacks complained about discrimination much like they do here, so Bill Clinton had his HUD secretary (Andrew Cuomo) the youngest and most inexperienced of any other secretary, lower bank standards so blacks could qualify for home loans. They couldn't lower them for one race of people, they had to lower them for everybody, so they all jumped in on the bandwagon.
> 
> As we both know, this led to the housing bubble and bust. You didn't even need a credit check or down payment to buy a house. Walk into just about any bank and they handed you money. But the only possible way for them to have some security were ARM"s. If we go back to prime loans, blacks will complain once again about discrimination because they don't have the education to understand loan standards.



Actually, what led to the housing bust was white people buying McMansions they couldn't afford with the expectation of flipping them in a few years at a profit. It really had nothing to do with ending redlining (which happened back in the 1970's) or the minor tweaks Clinton made to the CRA.   In fact, most of the banks that failed didn't handle CRA Loans.   Those were too tightly regulated to have the kinds of shenanigans we got in the Suburbs. 

I took out home loans in 1987, 2004 and 2021.   The loan I got in 2004 was EASIER for me to get than the one I got in 1987.  It was a no money down VA loan even though I was carrying thousands of dollars in other debt thanks to the First Bush Recession.   The one I got in 2021 was a LOT harder to get, even though I was carrying no debt, had money in the bank, because the banks were doing what they should have done all along- scrutinizing everything. 

The fact is, Bush was fine with easy to get home loans.  Activity in the housing industry offset the manufacturing jobs we were BLEEDING on his watch.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> We know it‘s taxpayer money to support their children. But they are in this country illegally and shouldn’t even be here. That’s the point. We are $30T in debt, are printing money hand over and fist, and we should just accept foreigners who wouldn’t qualify for admission here through legal channels - many have criminal records or would be otherwise deemed to be a negative to our country - to sneak or lie their way in, and then support their children?
> 
> (Also, not sure what this has to do with blacks who remain in poverty due to their poor choices, as opposed to the false blame of racism.)



We spend far more on Middle Class entitlements, than we do on poverty relief.  If you guys were really interested in debt you'd cut those things first. (And you often try when you want to give tax breaks to billionaires) 

We have illegals here because white people hire them.  

For instance, in 2002, I applied for a job at a company that distributed novelties, and the guy who interviewed me pretty much said that they know most of their warehouse employees were undocumented, but as long as they presented a reasonable fake document, they were fine with that. 

This guy also made a point of telling me they stopped working at Sundown on Friday because they were devout Jews.    Yup, devout enough to follow some bronze age superstition, but not so devout to obey the laws of man. 

You want to end illegal immigration, go after the people who hire them.  The factory owner who hires cheap labor, the rich yuppie who can't be bothered to raise their own kids, the idiot who hires a bunch of day-laborers to finish that DIY project.  (My racist Trump supporting brother did exactly that when he wasn't able to con his friends into helping him finish his remodeling project)


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Boy, did my grandparents ever have a hard life. Fleeing Jewish persecution overseas, they arrived here young, penniless, and uneducated, to work 12 hours a day in sweatshops. When they became parents themselves, they lost half their family to Hitler, had to hear how FDR turned away a boatload of Jews back to Europe because the country didn’t want no more Jews, and still..…EVERY ONE OF THEIR KIDS GRADUATED FROM COLLEGE!
> 
> Nothing libs hate more than a persecuted minority rising above it and achieving successful lives.



Wow, so let me get this straight. A boatload of German Jews try to get into Cuba, and that is FDR's fault when Cuba didn't take them, and we didn't take them either, before we put the strong arm on the UK to take them.  

The big difference between the Jews of Europe and blacks is that JEWS HAD A CHOICE.  For every Jew who tried to get away, there were 100 more who said, "Maybe Hitler won't be so bad!"  

Should also point out Hitler wanted to deport Germany's Jews to Palestine, and it was the British who said "No" because the Arabs didn't want them either.  Something about stealing their land...


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 22, 2022)

Turtlesoup said:


> We have an influx in immigrants because of our welfare system that gives them money for nothing----at the cost of taxpayers.
> 
> We don't have enough jobs-----the immigrants especially illegals suppress wages as it is and it is expected that most low level jobs that immigrants take will be replaced with machines----followed by higher level jobs being replaced by machines creating a massive shortage of workers. The US is filled up--we have to many people now as it is---more pollution, more disease, more crowding, more crime, less green space and less clean water are the result of this.



So when was the last time you signed up for one of those plentiful jobs picking lettuce or cleaning toilets? 

I remember when I was consulting for a company during Covid, and I was one of the last people out of the office because they didn't issue laptops to contractors, when they had cleaning crews come in to sanitize the office- yup- all Hispanics....  Unemployment peaking, people losing their jobs en-masse, and the shitty jobs STILL got done undocumented workers.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> OMG. You are actually denying that Affirmative Action isn’t used to figure out a way to reject higher-scoring whites and Asians over lower-scoring blacks? The language, clarified by the Supreme Court in the Grutter decision, specifically allows admissions committees to use minority race as a factor In deciding whom to admit.
> 
> But would it be safe for me to assume that since you deny AA advantages blacks and discriminates against whites and Asians, you will have no objection when the SCOTUS deems that AA is racist and abolishes it?
> 
> ...



Or what if we had white quotas in sports games like basketball or football?  The events would be much less exciting because they would not be allowed to have the best.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Or what if we had white quotas in sports games like basketball or football? The events would be much less exciting because they would not be allowed to have the best.



We already have that... that's what Title IX is about- Affirmative Action for white girls in sports.... and OH MY GOD, THERE'S A DUDE IN A DRESS, EVERYONE PANIC!!!!


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Lisa558
> *Compare that to, for example, the black mayor of Baltimore who, as she observed black thugs destroy her city, actually said “give them space to destroy.”*
> 
> I agree with the riots in Baltimore.
> ...


Isn't Baltimore a predominantly Democratic city?  Aren't the elected officials who run it predominately Democrats who were in large part elected by blacks?  But I hear you, man.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Or what if we had white quotas in sports games like basketball or football?  The events would be much less exciting because they would not be allowed to have the best.


Good point. If basketball and football teams were required to “diversify” their teams and have the racial percentage of players match their numbers in the general population (we’re always hearing that since blacks are 14% of the population, they should make up 14% of Harvard, or Yale Law, or whatever), we would need about 65% white.

The caliber of the games would drop bigtime, as color and not competence were the deciding factors in hiring.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> Isn't Baltimore a predominantly Democratic city?  Aren't the elected officials who run it predominately Democrats who were in large part elected by blacks?  But I hear you, man.


I stopped read that black racist’s post when he opened with how he’s in favor of destroying hardworking, honest people’s businesses, damaging other people’s property, committing arson, etc., otherwise known as “riots.”

Having a black come on here and support violence and harming other people isn’t helping their cause.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 22, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Title 4 or IV of the social security act of 1935 provided grants to states as Aid To Dependent Children. Eventually the name of the program was changed to Aid to Families with Dependent Children. This was welfare folks. Assistance for single moms with children and no daddy at home. In 1935. Blacks were excluded. Aid to Dependent Children functioned mainly to provide federal grants to help the states with mothers’ aid laws that began in 1910.
> 
> The ADC plan was written by two ladies who had been former directors of what was at the time called the U.S. Children’s Bureau. The Children’s Bureau’s goal was to provide aid to all children whose mothers had no support from a husband no matter how they got into that position. From the Children's Bureau in 1910 until 1965, no one talked about how the welfare state was wrong and created the disintegration of the white family. I read no lectures about the irresponsible white father. The program was not denigrated as something creating dependence on government; it was seen as essential assistance needed to help women without husbands who had children. Only when the law required that others besides whites be included did the story change to how the welfare state was wrong and destructive.
> 
> Blacks paid taxes and were excluded from this program. Blacks paid for white women to sit at home and have babies. Blacks paid their money for irresponsible white men to hop from bed to bed impregnating women and taking no responsibility. Ask Dale Brown, the former LSU basketball coach, whose dad sexed his mom, and left her pregnant with Dale who she had to raise alone. So I really do think it's time for you racists to shut your damn mouths unless you're admitting how you wouldn't  be jack squat without the government.



It's like my father told me.  When he was a child, his father lived until 54 years old which was way past the average life expectancy in the US at the time.  Women who usually stayed home taking care of the kids lost their husbands to illness or war.  They didn't get knocked up all the time from different baby daddies for fun and government benefits.  

My father grew up on welfare, but welfare back then meant pulling your red wagon to the fire station five miles down the road, the firemen would fill it up with fruits and vegetables, and you'd pull the wagon five miles back to the house.  Not such a daunting chore in the summer, but certainly a mission when there's a foot of snow on the ground which is usually all the time here in Cleveland.  

For my father and his several brothers and sisters, it was either that or starve.  They grew up doing both.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I stopped read that black racist’s post when he opened with how he’s in favor of destroying hardworking, honest people’s businesses, damaging other people’s property, committing arson, etc., otherwise known as “riots.”
> 
> Having a black come on here and support violence and harming other people isn’t helping their cause.



Uh, hey, remember when Colin Kapernaek took a knee.  Did we all say, "What a thoughtful young man you are, Colin, we need to look into your legitimate concerns about police misconduct."   Nope.  We ruined the man's career!  

Then black folks got tired of asking nicely and just started breaking white people's shit.   AMAZINGLY, White people started actually caring about police reform.  

Just like 50 years ago, people ignored Dr. King's sit ins, but when the Black Panthers and Malcolm X started threatening violence, we were all keen to fix things.  



Lisa558 said:


> Good point. If basketball and football teams were required to “diversify” their teams and have the racial percentage of players match their numbers in the general population (we’re always hearing that since blacks are 14% of the population, they should make up 14% of Harvard, or Yale Law, or whatever), we would need about 65% white.
> 
> The caliber of the games would drop bigtime, as color and not competence were the deciding factors in hiring.



We already have diversity in sports- it's called "Title IX", where we spend a lot of money on girl's sport no one cared about until some tranny in a dress started waiving his dick around in a locker room.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It's like my father told me. When he was a child, his father lived until 54 years old which was way past the average life expectancy in the US at the time. Women who usually stayed home taking care of the kids lost their husbands to illness or war. They didn't get knocked up all the time from different baby daddies for fun and government benefits.
> 
> My father grew up on welfare, but welfare back then meant pulling your red wagon to the fire station five miles down the road, the firemen would fill it up with fruits and vegetables, and you'd pull the wagon five miles back to the house. Not such a daunting chore in the summer, but certainly a mission when there's a foot of snow on the ground which is usually all the time here in Cleveland.
> 
> For my father and his several brothers and sisters, it was either that or starve. They grew up doing both.



Wow, Ray's deluded version of history... 

Of course, the reason why that kind of poverty ended was because we created more effective programs than pulling your little red wagon down to the firehouse and looking pathetic.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Good point. If basketball and football teams were required to “diversify” their teams and have the racial percentage of players match their numbers in the general population (we’re always hearing that since blacks are 14% of the population, they should make up 14% of Harvard, or Yale Law, or whatever), we would need about 65% white.
> 
> The caliber of the games would drop bigtime, as color and not competence were the deciding factors in hiring.



And what about the Hispanics in baseball?  At one time baseball was the all American game.  Today if an American doesn't speak Spanish, he's lost in the dugout.  

Why this huge takeover?  Because while our kids are getting fat on Doritoes and playing video games of baseball and football, people from poor countries are out there physically playing  because they grew up poor without any video games, cell phones, internet and so on.  In other words they grew up in their country the way we grew up in ours back in the day.  

Baseball is boring enough as it is.  Imagine if we had a white quota for the game.


----------



## Meathead (Apr 22, 2022)

IM2 said:


> ALL RISE!
> 
> This Mornings lesson:
> 
> Would You "Conservative" White Females Shut Up About Racial Preferences? Because You are the ones Who have Benefitted the Most From Them


White women benefited the most from racial preference? Even for those of you with the lowest of intelligence, how does that make sense? White women are white, right?

Do you think these AA programs were designed to benefit whites? Staggering stupidity regardless of your minuscule IQ.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> And what about the Hispanics in baseball?  At one time baseball was the all American game.  Today if an American doesn't speak Spanish, he's lost in the dugout.
> 
> Why this huge takeover?  Because while our kids are getting fat on Doritoes and playing video games of baseball and football, people from poor countries are out there physically playing  because they grew up poor without any video games, cell phones, internet and so on.  In other words they grew up in their country the way we grew up in ours back in the day.
> 
> Baseball is boring enough as it is.  Imagine if we had a white quota for the game.


All excellent points.

And could you imagine what a race in the Olympics would look like if the team had to be made up of 65% whites?


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 22, 2022)

Meathead said:


> White women benefited the most from racial preference? Even for those of you with the lowest of intelligence, how does that make sense. White women are white, right?


Yeah, that’s also a big lie the left is pushing to keep blacks getting favorable treatment. I know of two cases - both in the federal government, where liberalism and favoritism toward blacks are rampant - where a less qualified black got a promotion that the better qualified white woman was going for. in both cases, the white woman who were discriminated against for not being black sued, and both won. The libs try to get away with this all the time in the government, and you have to fight back!

In my own case, I went up against a black woman for a promotion and she got it - despite a much worse education and half the experience. The hiring manager told me she was sorry, but she was under a lot of pressure to hire and promote blacks, and offered me a “compensation” prize of another (higher) position. It wasn’t my cup of tea, but I took it - and then found another job where they judgEd on competence and not skin color.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 22, 2022)

Turtlesoup said:


> We have an influx in immigrants because of our welfare system that gives them money for nothing----at the cost of taxpayers.
> 
> We don't have enough jobs-----the immigrants especially illegals suppress wages as it is and it is expected that most low level jobs that immigrants take will be replaced with machines----followed by higher level jobs being replaced by machines creating a massive shortage of workers.   The US is filled up--we have to many people now as it is---more pollution, more disease, more crowding, more crime, less green space and less clean water are the result of this.



I have no idea where these leftists get the notion that we must grow our population non-stop.  Weren't we a great country when we had 50 million less people?  

Today housing is just about unaffordable for many Americans.  A good chunk of housing price is the property.  I believe it was Will Rogers who once said, buy land,  God ain't making anymore of it.  

Now that they are allowing illegals to flood our country by the millions every year, we have to find a place to put them.  Land is like anything else, supply and demand.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 22, 2022)

IM2 said:


> *"How can people be expected to hold positive views about people who insist on acting like rabid animals - and then try to blame others for their self-created problems? Fuck them."*
> 
> *And this is what we're talking about. Whites have acted like rabid animals for the past 403 years and have created the problems in this country. Instead of taking responsibility for the problems they have created, we read a bunch of psychosis from idiots like you. So fuck YOU.*



The difference is that as time went on, we whites became more civilized, while at the same time, blacks have become less civilized.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 22, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Name 1 black who pulled a Bernie Madoff.



Probably collectively they did worse things than Madoff when you consider the hundreds of billions in lost property value and closed down businesses across the country.


----------



## Meathead (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yeah, that’s also a big lie the left is pushing to keep blacks getting favorable treatment. I know of two cases - both in the federal government, where liberalism and favoritism toward blacks are rampant - where a less qualified black got a promotion that the better qualified white woman was going for. in both cases, the white woman who were discriminated against for not being black sued, and both won. The libs try to get away with this all the time in the government, and you have to fight back!
> 
> In my own case, I went up against a black woman for a promotion and she got it - despite a much worse education and half the experience. The hiring manager told me she was sorry, but she was under a lot of pressure to hire and promote blacks, and offered me a “compensation” prize of another (higher) position. It wasn’t my cup of tea, but I took it - and then found another job where they judgEd on competence and not skin color.


I think you missed IM2's "point" of white women benefiting from, and I quote "racial preference". Maybe Rachel Dolezal, but I would think she would be the exception.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The difference is that as time went on, we whites became more civilized, while at the same time, blacks have become less civilized.


Now that is incredibly racist


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 22, 2022)

Meathead said:


> I think you missed IM2's "point" of white women benefiting from, and I quote "racial preference". Maybe Rachel Dolezal, but I would think she would be the exception.


I missed his point because I have that black racist on ignore, along with a few other especially obnoxious bigots.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I missed his point because I have that black racist on ignore, along with a few other especially obnoxious bigots.


Only debate with people you agree with.  Lol


----------



## Meathead (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Now that is incredibly racist


It is also untrue. Despite some diffusion from the Arab world, very few sub-Saharans were ever civilized in the first place and remained stone-aged people until European colonialism and then only in the peripheries of the continent.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

Meathead said:


> It is also untrue. Despite some diffusion from the Arab world, very few sub-Saharans were ever civilized in the first place and remained stone-aged people until European colonialism and then only in the peripheries of the continent.


That also is incredibly racist


----------



## Meathead (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> That also is incredibly racist


Can truth be racist?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

Meathead said:


> Can truth be racist?


No.  But you can be


----------



## Meathead (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> No.  But you can be


OK, but at least I'm honest.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

Meathead said:


> OK, but at least I'm honest.


As am I.  What you said is incredibly racist


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 22, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> What situation are you speaking of Ray?



How about the topic we are in which is black poverty?  My links point to a very disturbing ratio of black girls getting pregnant in their teen years and black males becoming felons, both of which play a huge party in poverty these days.  I also posted a link that showed 75% of black male children cannot read at state levels in California, and I'm sure it's similar in other states, unless it's something in their drinking water.  

On a personal note I told you about my neighbor next door with the basketball hoop, the complaints I hear on my police scanner, and the fact our schools were once one of the best in the county until blacks moved in, and we've been on academic watch since.  

You and your cohorts ignore all of that and refer to phantom white racism and discrimination.  I won't say it doesn't happen, but certainly not nearly to the level of affecting an entire race of people.  They are anomalies at best.  Instead, you people post all kinds of things of the past about people you never even met that have nothing to do with your life in 2022, and final results instead of empirical evidence as to what led to those results.  

Per capita blacks lead the country in almost every crime category.  Over 50% of US murders are committed by just 7% of our population, and that are black males.  

You have a lot of things going against your race that whites are in no way responsible for.  Unless you address those issues, your grandchildren will be talking about the same thing in 50 years  from today.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 22, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Not it shows just how far whites like you go to excuse the bad choices of your race. You don't get to commit more crimes because there are more of you. You have 17 times the wealth, own damn near everything, are represented at every level in the American system. Whites should not be committing more crimes than everybody else.



Again, a completely stupid and uneducated claim.  If most people play auto lotto, then most people are going to win playing auto lotto instead of picking their own numbers.  It's not that auto lotto is any more luckier than picking your own numbers, it's that most everybody uses auto lotto. 

Per capita is where the truth lies; what each group of people do as a whole. Blacks lead the way in crime in nearly every category.  People today don't commit crimes because they are starving.  People today commit crimes as an option to work or for opportunity.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 22, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> What is the state of the neighborhood now?



I live in the suburbs, but Cleveland is broke.  Their police force has been decreasing for years while crimes, especially violent crimes have been increasing.  In the winter some people complain about being trapped on their street for days because they don't have nearly enough equipment or employees to clear those streets.  In many winters a third of those snow plows are in repair because the equipment is so old.  









						Cleveland mayor says city missed the mark with snow removal
					

Some roads remain snow covered on Wednesday.




					spectrumnews1.com


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Only debate with people you agree with.  Lol


No, I only debate with people who aren’t blatant antisemites or racists.  Or, previously banned for being obnoxious.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> How about the topic we are in which is black poverty?  My links point to a very disturbing ratio of black girls getting pregnant in their teen years and black males becoming felons, both of which play a huge party in poverty these days.  I also posted a link that showed 75% of black male children cannot read at state levels in California, and I'm sure it's similar in other states, unless it's something in their drinking water.
> 
> On a personal note I told you about my neighbor next door with the basketball hoop, the complaints I hear on my police scanner, and the fact our schools were once one of the best in the county until blacks moved in, and we've been on academic watch since.
> 
> ...


Thank you!

This thread keeps meandering as the leftists are eager to deflect from the obvious truth: that 25% of blacks remain in poverty because they are making bad choices, the most damaging one having a majority of babies out of wedlock, which in turn leads to low educational completion rates, and then poverty, and then high violent crime. They are all traced back to a 75% OOW rate.

That the leftists can do nothing more than go back GENERATIONS say…..yeah, but slavery!…..yeah, but Jim Crow!…..shows they have very little by which they can point to CURRENT racism.

Whites who point this out are not racist. We are simply tired of being blamed for something that is not our fault, and paying for it via “reverse racism.”


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Thank you!
> 
> This thread keeps meandering as the leftists are eager to deflect from the obvious truth: that 25% of blacks remain in poverty because they are making bad choices, the most damaging one having a majority of babies out of wedlock, which in turn leads to low educational completion rates, and then poverty, and then high violent crime. They are all traced back to a 75% OOW rate.
> 
> ...


To deny that racism is a factor is laughable


----------



## Meathead (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> As am I.  What you said is incredibly racist


No, here you're being rather vacuous and redundant, but if you want points for being incredibly woke, I'll give 'em to you.


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> To deny that racism is a factor is laughable


A factor in what?  Transferring their control to external sources?  Yeah... I agree.


----------



## Woodznutz (Apr 22, 2022)

ThomasSowellsFro said:


> How do you account for other groups that outperform whites in IQ tests(jews, asians)? The test should be as unbiased an accurate as possible, but It would certainly still have biases by whatever group is creating them. I took one last week on Mensa, and it was just a bunk of shapes and patterns.


It's not so much a matter of ability but one of seeing the value of education and of taking it seriously. Such students can be found in the poorest inner city schools.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Whites who point this out are not racist. We are simply tired of being blamed for something that is not our fault, and paying for it via “reverse racism.”



Actually it's not to challenge them but to help them.  I'm not black but I don't have to be black to see what's right in front of my face.  I'm not a politician either but the same applies to politics as well. 

If they want to go through life blaming everybody but themselves, that's fine with me.  It doesn't affect my life one way or another.  They will never solve anything that way, but if it makes them feel better, go for it.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Actually it's not to challenge them but to help them.  I'm not black but I don't have to be black to see what's right in front of my face.  I'm not a politician either but the same applies to politics as well.
> 
> If they want to go through life blaming everybody but themselves, that's fine with me.  It doesn't affect my life one way or another.  They will never solve anything that way, but if it makes them feel better, go for it.


True……it’s so obvious as to the cause.

As to whether it affects your life one way or another, maybe not you directly, but for whites, and particularly white males, in the work world, it does have an effect due to the response by leftists: let’s favor blacks over whites to make up for racism generations ago.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 22, 2022)

I came up with a very good topic for debate…..65 pages and still going. (Where’s my cookie???)

Just think how much better society would be, not just for blacks but for everyone, if leftists stopped pushing the blame game and a false narrative:

We wouldn’t have had a Summer of Thugs wreaking havoc over the entire country over the big lie about police targeting and killing blacks. We wouldn’t have had the Defund the Police movement that demonized cops and kicked off the crime spike as police were told to stand down. We wouldn’t have black students in inner-city liberal cities, who are failing to reach proficiency in basic academics, become resentful and hostile to whites as the curriculum focuses on “social justice” - rather than develop a basic educational foundation.

Instead, if we focused on the real reason 25% of blacks remain in poverty, more emphasis would be made on the immorality and poor outcomes of teens having out-of-wedlock babies, the minimal step of  graduating from high school, and the need for vocational training (at least). We would teach middle school poor black students to look to other impoverished minorities - including those with horrific prejudice against them - that moved out of poverty, and how do-able its is with the right determination and discipline.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> A factor in what?  Transferring their control to external sources?  Yeah... I agree.


I suppose it was wrong for slaves to complain about their locus of control too


HAHAHAHAHA


----------



## DBA (Apr 22, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> And then Harvard will just find another way to achieve diversity..



Right, because that is certainly more important than admitting the most qualified students.  Remember that the next time you have major surgery.  Choose your surgeon with diversity being the primary factor.


----------



## DBA (Apr 22, 2022)

IM2 said:


> He can't.


I don't need to. We know exactly how it is used in practice.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 22, 2022)

DBA said:


> Right, because that is certainly more important than admitting the most qualified students.  Remember that the next time you have major surgery.  Choose your surgeon with diversity being the primary factor.


Yup. Hey…the heart surgeon isn’t the best, or even particularly good, but he DID meet the minimal qualifications. And the most important thing is he isn’t white.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 22, 2022)

Ahhh...

Now the real story comes out. 



Lisa558 said:


> In my own case, I went up against a black woman for a promotion and she got it - despite a much worse education and half the experience. The hiring manager told me she was sorry, but she was under a lot of pressure to hire and promote blacks, and offered me a “compensation” prize of another (higher) position. It wasn’t my cup of tea, but I took it - and then found another job where they judgEd on competence and not skin color.



Uh, hello.  Has it occurred to you that maybe they just didn't think you were a good fit for other reasons. 

Frankly, if you come off 1/10th as unpleasant in person as you come off on these boards, I could imagine no one would want to work with you. 

Everyone has had a experience when someone less deserving got a job or a promotion that they thought they deserved.  I've had three such experiences in my career.   Eventually, all three of them proved me right.  

Get over it.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yup. Hey…the heart surgeon isn’t the best, or even particularly good, but he DID meet the minimal qualifications. And the most important thing is he isn’t white.



Medical schools use affirmative action????


Ate you kidding?  Lol


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> How about the topic we are in which is black poverty? My links point to a very disturbing ratio of black girls getting pregnant in their teen years and black males becoming felons, both of which play a huge party in poverty these days. I also posted a link that showed 75% of black male children cannot read at state levels in California, and I'm sure it's similar in other states, unless it's something in their drinking water.



Again, you fucking hypocrites whine about black pregnancy, and then you insist on cutting funds to planned parenthood because they perform abortions.   

You whine about black illiteracy, but you stopped busing for desegregation, and whine whenever they call for more school funding. 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> On a personal note I told you about my neighbor next door with the basketball hoop, the complaints I hear on my police scanner, and the fact our schools were once one of the best in the county until blacks moved in, and we've been on academic watch since.



Oh, noes, a basketball hoop!  were they eating fried chicken, too? 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Per capita blacks lead the country in almost every crime category. Over 50% of US murders are committed by just 7% of our population, and that are black males.



We only have 20,000 murders out of a population of 300,000,000.  Our murder stats are too high for a developed country, but it's hardly indicative of anything.


----------



## DBA (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Medical schools use affirmative action????
> 
> 
> Ate you kidding?  Lol



You're kidding right? Of course they do.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Medical schools use affirmative action????
> 
> 
> Ate you kidding?  Lol


Have you not ever heard of the Bakke decision?  Affirmative action has been in medical schools since 1978.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 22, 2022)

DBA said:


> Right, because that is certainly more important than admitting the most qualified students. Remember that the next time you have major surgery. Choose your surgeon with diversity being the primary factor.





Lisa558 said:


> Yup. Hey…the heart surgeon isn’t the best, or even particularly good, but he DID meet the minimal qualifications. And the most important thing is he isn’t white.



Hey, thanks to Managed Care, most of us get stuck with doctors from India to start with.  usually the cheapest provider.  I worry more about the insurance companies than I do the providers.  

I'm not worried that medical schools are churning out unqualified candidates... If you graduate, you are qualified.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Medical schools use affirmative action????
> 
> 
> Ate you kidding?  Lol


If you are this unaware of how affirmative action has infiltrated all areas of higher education, you really should shut up.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> If you are this unaware of how affirmative action has infiltrated all areas of higher education, you really should shut up.


Prove it for medical school


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 22, 2022)

EvilCat Breath said:


> Have you not ever heard of the Bakke decision?  Affirmative action has been in medical schools since 1978.


I think that was law school, but the point remains: grad programs were admitting lower-scoring blacks over higher-scoring whites since I was in college myself.

edit: never mind….it WAS medical school.









						REGENTS OF the UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, Petitioner, v. Allan BAKKE.
					






					www.law.cornell.edu


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 22, 2022)

IM2 said:


> We all know he is not the only one. If you're in his position, you do the same stuff.


He’s the only one you have been able to find in several years.  And although I’m not in his position, I would never base decisions on race.  I wanted to be surrounded by the best workers so I didn’t have to do extra work fixing their mistakes.  Ive never judged anyone by their color, only their statements and actions.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 22, 2022)

IM2 said:


> The numbers show that whites commit more total crimes.


Yep, because there are about five times as many of us as you.  The appropriate question is, do whites commit five times more crimes than blacks do?


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 22, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Again, you fucking hypocrites whine about black pregnancy, and then you insist on cutting funds to planned parenthood because they perform abortions.
> 
> You whine about black illiteracy, but you stopped busing for desegregation, and whine whenever they call for more school funding.
> 
> ...


You just revealed the problem with democrat policies.  Abortion isn't the solution to teenage pregnancy, and bussing kids to better schools also isn't a solution.  Fix the problem.  Demand accountability.  That's the real weakness with your policies.  No accountability.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 22, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Her parents were slaves, yes, from the Middleton Plantation.  She actually wrote a book about her life and experiences there and there is a chart at the end of the book that shows the various branches of the family, including my grandfather's branch.


So if her parents were slaves,  even if they were barely born in 1865 and had her at fifteen, she would have been born in 1880.  That would make her over a hundred years old when you met her.  The numbers don’t match up.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 22, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Gifts from family members, loans from family members, loans from the bank, marrying into money, etc.


None of those are earning money, and in the case of the loans they have to be paid back almost always with interest.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 22, 2022)

IM2 said:


> That didn't happen in Baltimore. Whites imagined a stolen election and stormed the Capital over what they imagined. So you really need to consider shutting the fuck up.


A couple of hundred idiots of all colors “stormed” the Capital.  There were over a hundred thousand peaceful protestors in the crowd.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I think that was law school, but the point remains: grad programs were admitting lower-scoring blacks over higher-scoring whites since I was in college myself.
> 
> edit: never mind….it WAS medical school.
> 
> ...


Nope it was medical school.  Alan Bakke was not accepted into California medical school in favor of the lesser qualified but black Patrick Chavis.  Bakke did go on to become a respected surgeon.  Chavis was always an incompetent doctor who killed many of his patients.  He lost his license and was shot to death at a Foster's Freeze waiting for an ice cream cone.

A had a black girl ask me to sue Cerritos Junior College because she wasn't admitted to some class.  It was full.  She was offered a spot to audit the class until someone dropped out.  Nope.  The basis of her complaint was "the class can't be full.  They have white people in the class. "    she thought that a white should be told to leave if a black wanted the spot.  It's not that bad yet.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 22, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> A couple of hundred idiots of all colors “stormed” the Capital.  There were over a hundred thousand peaceful protestors in the crowd.


Don’t know what the racist said, but I imagine he condemned whitey for a couple of hundred idiots for a few hours on Jan 6, while conveniently ignoring the thousands of BLM barbarians destroying dozens of cities throughout the nation, and for months on end.

These leftists sure have chutzpah!


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 22, 2022)

EvilCat Breath said:


> Nope it was medical school.  Alan Bakke was not accepted into California medical school in favor of the lesser qualified but black Patrick Chavis.  Bakke did go on to become a respected surgeon.  Chavis was always an incompetent doctor who killed many of his patients.  He lost his license and was shot to death at a Foster's Freeze waiting for an ice cream cone.
> 
> A had a black girl ask me to sue Cerritos Junior College because she wasn't admitted to some class.  It was full.  She was offered a spot to audit the class until someone dropped out.  Nope.  The basis of her complaint was "the class can't be full.  They have white people in the class. "    she thought that a white should be told to leave if a black wanted the spot.  It's not that bad yet.


Yeah, I corrected my error. It was medical school.

And that story about the black girl at the junior college does speak to how entitled blacks, or at least some of them, feel about getting admitted to college over whites.

i have some insights to AA that others here don’t, given my work in the field, and I know how the leftists think. They have decided since blacks are 14% of the population, or at least they were when I worked there, that the study body should be made up of 14% blacks. So what they do is lower the cut-off (GPA and test scores) until enough of them can get in, and they meet the 14%.

The challenge is that the GPA and score cut-off have to drop pretty far to get to the 14%. Then it’s a balancing act as to how much damage they are willing to absorb to the reputation of the school if they drop too low. If, for example, a prestigious school has to drop to 3.1 or 3.2 - a decent B student but nothing outstanding - to get to the 14%, should they cut off at 3.4, and be satisfied with a 10%?

Then you have the flip side. In order to make way for the 3.3 blacks, how “high up” do you have to go in rejecting highly qualified whites to make room for them? Do you have to reject the 3.7s? The 3.8s? Then what happens is that the discrepancy between the AA admits and whites becomes even more stark. You have whites with 3.9s and near perfect test scores on one side, and AA admits with 3.3 and pretty decent test scores on the other. The lower qualified AA admits struggle the ENTIRE FOUR YEARS to keep up with their white cohort, and often require lots of tutoring to keep them on the program.


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> I suppose it was wrong for slaves to complain about their locus of control too
> 
> 
> HAHAHAHAHA


The thing is they didn't complain.  They endured and eventually became state legislators who wrote righteous laws until they lost their way.  

Now they are just victims who can never be successful because... you know... racism.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yeah, I corrected my error. It was medical school.
> 
> And that story about the black girl at the junior college does speak to how entitled blacks, or at least some of them, feel about getting admitted to college over whites.
> 
> ...


Blacks are 12% of the population.  To be exact, 12.8%  homicide and abortion are whittling their numbers down.  Hispanics are 19% of the population and growing because of criminal invasion.


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Little Johnny... I want you to know that you can never be anything or do anything in this world because racism exists.  So you run on down to the store and fetch me another 40.  

Yeah... that's a winning hand alright.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> The thing is they didn't complain.  They endured and eventually became state legislators who wrote righteous laws until they lost their way.
> 
> Now they are just victims who can never be successful because... you know... racism.


I agree racism still exists.  Thanks


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I think that was law school, but the point remains: grad programs were admitting lower-scoring blacks over higher-scoring whites since I was in college myself.
> 
> edit: never mind….it WAS medical school.



Yes, it was.  Which brings back the point.... Do you think that the medical schools are graduating people who are incompetent?

What everyone forgets about Bakke is he didn't apply to medical school until he was 32 years old, much older than most medical students and far less likely to be trainable.  He also scored below the minimum...



BS Filter said:


> You just revealed the problem with democrat policies. Abortion isn't the solution to teenage pregnancy, and bussing kids to better schools also isn't a solution. Fix the problem. Demand accountability. That's the real weakness with your policies. No accountability.


Actually, Democratic policies work just fine when they are applied.

Obama, Clinton, Carter, LBJ, JFK, FDR all advanced black people when they were in charge.  The economy expands and things get better for everyone.

REpublicans, of course, bring us recessions, and people arguing over the scraps.

Abortion and Birth control ARE a cure to poverty.  As much as Lisa whines all day about the perseverance of her immigrant forbears, the main reason why whites have gotten into the middle class is because of contraception.


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> I agree racism still exists.  Thanks


And thank you for admitting black people have no control over their lives because racism still exists.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> And thank you for admitting black people have no control over their lives because racism still exists.


Thank you for admitting that you hate black people


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 22, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Yes, it was.  Which brings back the point.... Do you think that the medical schools are graduating people who are incompetent?
> 
> What everyone forgets about Bakke is he didn't apply to medical school until he was 32 years old, much older than most medical students and far less likely to be trainable.  He also scored below the minimum...
> 
> ...


So killing humans is a cure for poverty.  You're insane.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 22, 2022)

EvilCat Breath said:


> Nope it was medical school. Alan Bakke was not accepted into California medical school in favor of the lesser qualified but black Patrick Chavis. Bakke did go on to become a respected surgeon. Chavis was always an incompetent doctor who killed many of his patients. He lost his license and was shot to death at a Foster's Freeze waiting for an ice cream cone.



Um, okay, except that Bakke applied to SEVEN medical schools, all of which felt his grades were too low or he was too old to start the training.  

Did Chavis cheat him out of all those slots?  Nope. 

Except only one patient died because of Chavis' malpractice, not many.  For that he lost his license, unlike a lot of white doctors who keep theirs.





EvilCat Breath said:


> A had a black girl ask me to sue Cerritos Junior College because she wasn't admitted to some class. It was full. She was offered a spot to audit the class until someone dropped out. Nope. The basis of her complaint was "the class can't be full. They have white people in the class. " she thought that a white should be told to leave if a black wanted the spot. It's not that bad yet.



Oh, wait, you are a lawyer this week, when you aren't a painter or a shop owner.  

Hold on, I think ECB is actually BARBIE.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 22, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> So killing humans is a cure for poverty. You're insane.


Fetuses aren't people. 

Abortion created the white middle class.


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Thank you for admitting that you hate black people


I don't.  If anyone hates black people it's you for telling them that they aren't in control of their destiny because racism exists.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> I don't.  If anyone hates black people it's you for trying to tell them that they have no control of their destiny because racism exists.


Did you grow up hating black people?


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Did you grow up hating black people?


I don't hate black people.  I don't hate anyone.  Why should I?


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants : Little Johnny... I want you to know that you can never be anything or do anything in this world because racism exists. So you run on down to the store and fetch me another 40.

ding:  Yeah... that's a winning hand alright.


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

So glad Jackie Robinson didn't succumb to being a victim.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Apr 22, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Um, okay, except that Bakke applied to SEVEN medical schools, all of which felt his grades were too low or he was too old to start the training.
> 
> Did Chavis cheat him out of all those slots?  Nope.
> 
> ...


I am the same this week as last week, retired.  Yes I paint, because people pay me.  Just because you are a worthless, talentless hack doesn't, mean everyone is.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> And thank you for admitting black people have no control over their lives because racism still exists.


Because slavery means more to them than success,  they have to continually prove they are deserving of slavery.


----------



## monkrules (Apr 22, 2022)

Turtlesoup said:


> We have an influx in immigrants because of our welfare system that gives them money for nothing----at the cost of taxpayers.
> 
> We don't have enough jobs-----the immigrants especially illegals suppress wages as it is and it is expected that most low level jobs that immigrants take will be replaced with machines----followed by higher level jobs being replaced by machines creating a massive shortage of workers.   The US is filled up--we have to many people now as it is---more pollution, more disease, more crowding, more crime, less green space and less clean water are the result of this.


Totally agree with you.

Immigrants were needed when our country was new and expanding. And SKILLED immigrants are still needed.

But much of the immigration we see today seems to be comprised of people who are running away from the problems in their home countries. It's easier to run away than to fight for their own country. Then, once here for a while they join other whiners crying about how bad they have it.

Imo, all immigration should be shut down for at least 25 years.

Oh yeah, and in your last paragraph you probably meant to say we will have a massive "SURPLUS" of workers. Right??


----------



## katsteve2012 (Apr 22, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Why don't you direct your complaints of ‘Jewish oppression’ to you fellow white brethren ? It was the *REAL DEAL* white supremacists who killed Jewish people. Yet your up supporting the very system that killed your people.
> 
> Your grandparents came with billon dollars worth of whiteness.
> 
> ...



Madoff is just one in a long history of swindlers.









						8 of the most notorious Ponzi schemes in US history
					

Whether on a smaller scale, or superlatively large like financier Bernie Madoff's, Ponzi schemes are unnervingly and increasingly common. Here's a look at eight of the most notorious Ponzi schemes in US history.




					www.cnn.com


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> Vegasgiants : Little Johnny... I want you to know that you can never be anything or do anything in this world because racism exists. So you run on down to the store and fetch me another 40.
> 
> ding:  Yeah... that's a winning hand alright.


Never be anything?  Man you just lie all day on here


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Never be anything?  Man you just lie all day on here


Making it about me so soon?


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Never be anything?  Man you just lie all day on here


So you are saying that racism isn't holding black people back?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> Making it about me so soon?


I was a little surprised when you came out so strongly in favor of affirmative action


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 22, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> Uh, yeah
> 
> the entire world was doing all those bad things in the 18th Century and in some places still is


You excused it just like people in your KLAN excuse all their bad behaviors.

"THEY DID IT TOO"

The formal and normal excuse for the Tiny minded "conservative."


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> I was a little surprised when you came out so strongly in favor of affirmative action


Because black people can't succeed on their own?  Is that what you are saying?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> Because black people can't succeed on their own?  Is that what you are saying?


Is that why you support affirmative action?


----------



## katsteve2012 (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Excellent point!
> 
> The difference is that when Bernie Madoff did that horrible thing, Jews were appalled. They didn’t make excuses or say “antisemitism made him do it.”


Of course they were "appalled", because many of his victims were elderly Jewish people and Jewish organizations.

 I personally knew a Jewish couple that were swindled by him, and they lost their home and life savings.









						Bernie Madoff, Whose Ponzi Scheme Devastated the Jewish World, Dies in Prison at 82 — Detroit Jewish News
					

The Associated Press reported Madoff's death Wednesday at a federal prison in Butner, North Carolina.




					thejewishnews.com


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Is that why you support affirmative action?


I've never supported racial discrimination.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> I've never supported racial discrimination.


Me neither.  But you sure love affirmative action.


----------



## Meathead (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Is that why you support affirmative action?


If blacks could succeed on their own there would be no need for affirmative action. So there is that.


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Me neither.  But you sure love affirmative action.


There's no discrimination if the candidates have equal merit. So yes, I do love some affirmative action in those instances.

But under no circumstance do I believe that racism is the reason black people as whole have not succeeded.  The root cause of that problem goes back 90 years and is ironically something that was intended to help black people... welfare.  It decimated the black nuclear family and that is the root cause of your people's problems.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> There's no discrimination if the candidates have equal merit. So yes, I do love some affirmative action in those instances.
> 
> But under no circumstance do I believe that racism is the reason black people as whole have not succeeded.  The root cause of that problem goes back 90 years and is ironically something that was intended to help black people... welfare.  It decimated the black nuclear family and that is the root cause of your people's problems.


Good to hear your support of affirmative action


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 22, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Fetuses aren't people.
> 
> Abortion created the white middle class.


Now you’re denying science.  A Fetus is a human, same as you.  How can killing human beings create the middle class?


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Good to hear your support of affirmative action


Even with my caveat of equal merit?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> Even with my caveat of equal merit?


Your ideas to make it mandatory for every company in america I thought was quite creative


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 22, 2022)

katsteve2012 said:


> Of course they were "appalled", because many of his victims were elderly Jewish people and Jewish organizations.
> 
> I personally knew a Jewish couple that were swindled by him, and they lost their home and life savings.
> 
> ...


So they were only appalled only because Jews were affected? Them Jews don’t care about anyone but themselves? This sounds like another case of a black man objecting to racism while showing contempt for Jews.

Speaking for myself, and my family, and those in my circle, we were all appalled because 1) this is the type of crime that plays into the stereotype of sneaky, greedy Jews and would advance antisemitism, and, most importantly, 2) lots of people were hurt and in fact lost life savings.

There were plenty of non-Jews impacted. The most famous was Kevin Bacon.


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Your ideas to make it mandatory for every company in america I thought was quite creative


I don't believe you could have an honest discussion if your life depended on it.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> I don't believe you could have an honest discussion if your life depended on it.


Right back at you.  Dont misrepresent my position again


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Right back at you.  Dont misrepresent my position again


You mean the part where you believe racism keeps blacks from succeeding?  Did I misrepresent that?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> You mean the part where you believe racism keeps blacks from succeeding?  Did I misrepresent that?


Yes you are flat out lying by saying I said black people CAN'T succeed because of racism.  It is just much HARDER for them



You flat out lied


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Yes you are flat out lying by saying I said black people CAN'T succeed because of racism.  It is just much HARDER for them
> 
> 
> 
> You flat out lied


So racism isn't keeping black people from succeeding?  Because that doesn't seem like what you are saying.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> So racism isn't keeping black people from succeeding?  Because that doesn't seem like what you are saying.


So you hate black people?  Clearly that is what you are saying


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> So you hate black people?  Clearly that is what you are saying


No.  That's not what I am saying.  That's what you say I am saying.  

I asked you the question directly and you choose to not directly answer it.  Do you believe racism is keeping black people from succeeding?


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> I don't believe you could have an honest discussion if your life depended on it.


You're wasting your time on that one.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> No.  That's not what I am saying.  That's what you say I am saying.
> 
> I asked you the question directly and you choose to not directly answer it.  Do you believe racism is keeping black people from succeeding?


Yes.  It is PARTLY a reason some black people are not able to succeed.  


Now go and misrepresent that


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> You're wasting your time on that one.


You conceded long ago


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Yes.  It is PARTLY a reason some black people are not able to succeed.
> 
> 
> Now go and misrepresent that


Ok, so if it is partly the reason some black people can't succeed does that mean those black people have no control in succeeding?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> Ok, so if it is partly the reason some black people can't succeed does that mean those black have no control in succeeding?


They do not have complete control in their success due to racism


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> They do not have complete control in their success due to racism


What does not having complete control mean exactly?


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> No.  That's not what I am saying.  That's what you say I am saying.
> 
> I asked you the question directly and you choose to not directly answer it.  Do you believe racism is keeping black people from succeeding?


The correct answer is: racism isn’t keeping black people from succeeding any more than antisemitism is keeping Jews from succeeding.

My advice would be that if a black person discovers he’s reporting to a racist, the best thing to do is find a better job. I once overheard my manager speaking very negatively about Jews, and I found a better job within three weeks.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> What does not having complete control mean exactly?


Exactly what it sounds like.  If a white man gets promoted over a black man who should have got the promotion that is out of his control.


Its called racism


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> Exactly what it sounds like.  If a white man gets promoted over a black man who should have got the promotion that is out of his control.
> 
> 
> Its called racism


So in that circumstance the black man had no other options?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The correct answer is: racism isn’t keeping black people from succeeding any more than antisemitism is keeping Jews from succeeding.
> 
> My advice would be that if a black person discovers he’s reporting to a racist, the best thing to do is find a better job. I once overheard my manager speaking very negatively about Jews, and I found a better job within three weeks.


You must have had crappy jobs if you think you can work your way up then encounter racism and then start all over again at the bottom


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> So in that circumstance the black man had no other options?


My turn


Can racism hinder someones career?


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> My turn
> 
> 
> Can racism hinder someones career?


Maybe, but that doesn't mean he has no control over his life or that it will necessarily turn out worse for him.  

Now back to my question, in the circumstance the black man wasn't promoted because of his race, did the black man have no other options?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> Maybe, but that doesn't mean he has no control over his life or that it will necessarily turn out worse for him.
> 
> Now back to my question, in the circumstance the black man wasn't promoted because of his race, did the black man have no other options?


So then the answer is yes and racism can affect a black persons success



Thanks


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> So then the answer is yes and racism can affect a black persons success
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks


Now back to my question, in the circumstance the black man wasn't promoted because of his race, did the black man have no other options?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> Maybe, but that doesn't mean he has no control over his life or that it will necessarily turn out worse for him.
> 
> Now back to my question, in the circumstance the black man wasn't promoted because of his race, did the black man have no other options?


If a white person loses a job to affirmative action does he have no other options?


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> If a white person loses a job to affirmative action does he have no other options?


You aren't going to answer the question, are you?


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> You aren't going to answer the question, are you?


My answer is.....maybe.  LOL


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> If a white person loses a job to affirmative action does he have no other options?


It's exactly the same.  If anyone doesn't get a promotion they deserve, they have options.  So in all cases whatever the bias was didn't control what they did afterwards and can't be used as an excuse for their failures.

Ergo racism is not the reason black people do not succeed.


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> My answer is.....maybe.  LOL


Your dishonesty only harms you.


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Racism isn't the reason Jewish people don't succeed.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> It's exactly the same.  If anyone doesn't get a promotion they deserve, the have options.  So in all cases whatever the bias was didn't control what they did afterwards and can't be used as an excuse for their failures.
> 
> Ergo racism is not the reason black people do not succeed.


If he goes to EVERY company that has his job and they all discriminate would that hurt his chances of success?



Ergo.......I freaking love this


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Misogyny isn't the reason women fail.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> Your dishonesty only harms you.


Maybe is ok for you but not me


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Affirmative action isn't the reason white men fail.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> Racism is the reason Jewish people don't succeed.


LOL


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

If anyone wants to know why they failed all they have to do is look in the mirror.


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> LOL


My bad.  Typo.  Gonna fix it.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> If anyone wants to know why they failed all they have to do is look in the mirror.


Said the white man to his slave.  LOL


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Our own government's statistics show that some rich people get poorer and some poor people get richer.  But for the rich that get richer and the poor that get poorer there is a very simple explanation.... they keep doing the same things.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

Slaves could only blame themselves for not becoming doctors and lawyers in the 1800's.  LOL


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

Saying racism is the reason black people can't succeed is a crutch that literally keeps black people from succeeding.


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

No one is doing the black community any service by telling them they are victims and it's not your fault that you live in this ghetto.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

Saying racism kept black people down when they were denied entry to every college in this country is just a crutch


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> Ok, so if it is partly the reason some black people can't succeed does that mean those black people have no control in succeeding?


He’s not answering, so I will answer.

People face obstacles all the time, and they figure out a way to work around them. For example, in the late 40s, antisemitism was rampant in this country and it was hard for a smart, hard-working, new engineering grad to get hired in NY - if Jewish. (Hard to believe, but true.)

My dad learned that the federal government was willing to hire smart, hard-working Jewish boys. At 21, and never having traveled anywhere, he left his parents and brother and got a job in DC. (Rented a room in someone’s house.) It was a good starting job in his field, and he ended up doing well. SO…..antisemitism   didn’t keep him down, but he did have to adapt and move to a new city.

That’s what I believe you mean.


----------



## ding (Apr 22, 2022)

There's a reason for this and it isn't racism.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> He’s not answering, so I will answer.
> 
> People face obstacles all the time, and they figure out a way to work around them. For example, in the late 40s, antisemitism was rampant in this country and it was hard for a smart, hard-working, new engineering grad to get hired in NY - if Jewish. (Hard to believe, but true.)
> 
> ...


And some people have far far more obstacles than white people


That is called racism


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 22, 2022)

EvilCat Breath said:


> I am the same this week as last week, retired. Yes I paint, because people pay me. Just because you are a worthless, talentless hack doesn't, mean everyone is.



Actually, if your Avis are any indication of your work... it's kind of horrible. 

I think those lesbians sued you to NOT paint their picture.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> He’s not answering, so I will answer.
> 
> People face obstacles all the time, and they figure out a way to work around them. For example, in the late 40s, antisemitism was rampant in this country and it was hard for a smart, hard-working, new engineering grad to get hired in NY - if Jewish. (Hard to believe, but true.)
> 
> My dad learned that the federal government was willing to hire smart, hard-working Jewish boys. At 21, and never having traveled anywhere, he left his parents and brother and got a job in DC. (Rented a room in someone’s house.) It was a good starting job in his field, and he ended up doing well. SO…..antisemitism didn’t keep him down, but he did have to adapt and move to a new city.



Here's how you avoid anti-Semitism.  Don't tell anyone you are Jewish.   

Here's how to avoid racism.... Oh, that's right.  You can't.


----------



## Mac-7 (Apr 22, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> You excused it just like people in your KLAN excuse all their bad behaviors.
> 
> "THEY DID IT TOO"
> 
> The formal and normal excuse for the Tiny minded "conservative."


Yet slavery was common all over the world during the 18th century

if you dont know that then your education is incomplete


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 22, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Now you’re denying science. A Fetus is a human, same as you. How can killing human beings create the middle class?



Simple. 

Try supporting 4 people on a salary as opposed to seven people.  See how that works?  You just aren't very bright, are you? 

Fetuses aren't people because they aren't viable.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The correct answer is: racism isn’t keeping black people from succeeding any more than antisemitism is keeping Jews from succeeding.
> 
> My advice would be that if a black person discovers he’s reporting to a racist, the best thing to do is find a better job. I once overheard my manager speaking very negatively about Jews, and I found a better job within three weeks.



Um, okay.  So exactly how did someone with a negative attitude towards Jews hire you in the first place... could it be he had no idea you were Jewish because you didn't have a name like Cohen or Goldstein? 

So how was the black person supposed to get hired by a racist to be offended by his racism to start with.  

See, you keep trying to draw parallels between racism and non-existent anti-Semitism in this country, and it just doesn't fly.


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 22, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Simple.
> 
> Try supporting 4 people on a salary as opposed to seven people.  See how that works?  You just aren't very bright, are you?
> 
> Fetuses aren't people because they aren't viable.


Define "viable".


----------



## katsteve2012 (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> So they were only appalled only because Jews were affected? Them Jews don’t care about anyone but themselves? This sounds like another case of a black man objecting to racism while showing contempt for Jews.
> 
> Speaking for myself, and my family, and those in my circle, we were all appalled because 1) this is the type of crime that plays into the stereotype of sneaky, greedy Jews and would advance antisemitism, and, most importantly, 2) lots of people were hurt and in fact lost life savings.
> 
> There were plenty of non-Jews impacted. The most famous was Kevin Bacon.



You're quite obsessed racially aren't you?

I did not imply that "Jews only care about themselves"

I simply pointed out that quite a few of them were affected by that despicable criminal. 

Nothing more nothing less. Had it been someone Black, I would have been equally appalled as well. 

I have no use for thieves of any kind, because I have had money stolen from me before as well.

You have a serious psychosis bordering on insanity.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 22, 2022)

katsteve2012 said:


> You're quite obsessed racially aren't you?
> 
> I did not imply that "Jews only care about themselves:
> 
> ...


If I do, it’s after five years of hate coming from liberals.


----------



## Paleman (Apr 22, 2022)

Dekster said:


> And yet that would be two generations plus however many generations before of income production from property the blacks families couldn't have that we did.


If WE did all that, you must realize that you are also a part of the WE. That being the case I think it would be very big of you to share your wealth with some of the victims that YOU are personally responsible for. Let us know what sacrifices you are willing to offer for all the unfortunates YOU helped to create.


----------



## katsteve2012 (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> If I do, it’s after five years of hate coming from liberals.



Well, that's between you and "liberals".

That's your problem. Not mine.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 22, 2022)

BS Filter said:


> Define "viable".


Able to survive more than a few minutes outside the womb. 



Lisa558 said:


> If I do, it’s after five years of hate coming from liberals.



Um, yeah, ever consider that some of that hate is earned?


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Apr 22, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, if your Avis are any indication of your work... it's kind of horrible.
> 
> I think those lesbians sued you to NOT paint their picture.


He he he.  Jealous are ya?


----------



## BS Filter (Apr 22, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Able to survive more than a few minutes outside the womb.
> 
> 
> 
> Um, yeah, ever consider that some of that hate is earned?


That doesn't mean anything.  They're still a human being.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> If I do, it’s after five years of hate coming from liberals.


I despise the fuckers. Every leftist democrat deserves to be nothing more than road kill.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 22, 2022)

EvilCat Breath said:


> I despise the fuckers. Every leftist democrat deserves to be nothing more than road kill.


On another thread, when I mentioned how I’ve dropped most of my Democrat friends after years of being told that only racists and morons voted for Trump - with them KNOWING I voted for Trump - one of the leftists criticized me for separating myself from toxic friends like that. What do these people think? That we should voluntarily subject ourselves to their rage for years on end?

I had one person call me the day before the election call and ask if I’ve come to my senses yet and will vote for Biden, or do I still plan to vote for the racist. I mean, really…..how much verbal abuse from “friends” is one expected to take?

Another person came up to me after my father’s funeral - yes, you read that right - and asked how I could vote for a racist.

I could go on and on.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> On another thread, when I mentioned how I’ve dropped most of my Democrat friends after years of being told that only racists and morons voted for Trump - with them KNOWING I voted for Trump - one of the leftists criticized me for separating myself from toxic friends like that. What do these people think? That we should voluntarily subject ourselves to their rage for years on end?


I have dumped a few friends because they are democrat.  Now I screen them more carefully.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 22, 2022)

EvilCat Breath said:


> I have dumped a few friends because they are democrat.  Now I screen them more carefully.


I find it very easy to identify them. Virtually every interaction with them has them making a nasty dig against Trump voters, or saying we have to have compassion for the “undocumented workers,” or whatever. In fact, maybe they’re testing ME to see if I’m ”one of them,” but the more likely explanation is that they’re simply arrogant and assume I agree with them.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 22, 2022)

I see the usual white "experts" on blacks are here running their mouths.

On February 25th, 1913, the 16th Amendment of the United States Constitution was ratified. This amendment created the income tax. Today, every American must pay income tax unless their income is below a certain level. Since 1913 blacks have paid federal income taxes to help finance programs and policies that have excluded us. Most states began income taxes during Jim Crow Apartheid, and working blacks paid income taxes that helped states implement policies enforcing apartheid. 

 More than 50 billion dollars (based on 1930’s value) was spent on The New Deal and Servicemen's Readjustment Act. Both programs are credited with providing a significant boost to wealth accumulation in America. Both policies excluded vast numbers of blacks who worked and paid taxes. Federal housing policies kept blacks segregated in poorly built or maintained property using tax dollars working blacks paid. Education, paid for by tax dollars blacks pay into the system, continues underfunding schools in black neighborhoods. Blacks pay taxes to fund law enforcement who kill blacks at three times our population, even as whites are more than double the arrests. Tax money working blacks pay into the system allocated for social services or community development are not equally invested in organizations, services, or policies that would increase positive outcomes in black communities. I have seen this personally.

So all you white "experts" need to shut the fuck up. Your asses are where you are on OUR dime, your white asses haven't subsidized jack diddly for blacks.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I find it very easy to identify them. Virtually every interaction with them has them making a nasty dig against Trump voters, or saying we have to have compassion for the “undocumented workers,” or whatever. In fact, maybe they’re testing ME to see if I’m ”one of them,” but the more likely explanation is that they’re simply arrogant and assume I agree with them.


Undocumented workers!   Criminal invaders.  They should be shot on sight.   I have no compassion at all.  The invaders should be butchered for zoo food.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Apr 22, 2022)

IM2 said:


> I see the usual white "experts" on blacks are here running their mouths.
> 
> On February 25th, 1913, the 16th Amendment of the United States Constitution was ratified. This amendment created the income tax. Today, every American must pay income tax unless their income is below a certain level. Since 1913 blacks have paid federal income taxes to help finance programs and policies that have excluded us. Most states began income taxes during Jim Crow Apartheid, and working blacks paid income taxes that helped states implement policies enforcing apartheid.
> 
> ...


You should run around shutting people up.  See how far you get.   No one cares about you, your fellow black asses and no, black lives don't matter.


----------



## Death Angel (Apr 22, 2022)

bripat9643 said:


> Where has it been established that Poc have fewer opportunities to succeed?  If anything, the have more opportunities.  There are all kinds of scholarship designated specifically for PoC.  There are also AA quotas at many universities, government jobs and private corporations.
> 
> So advising them not to get pregnant before they get married is a racist plot?


Common sense eludes the pla tation blacks


----------



## IM2 (Apr 22, 2022)

*No. It’s perfectly acceptable - to non-liberals who don’t see racism everywhere - to start a thread outlining why blacks are poor due to their own bad choices and NOT racism, which is what people like you keep lying about.*
*
Asking why poor people are poor and avoiding any discussion of race, avoids the issue that racism - for blacks - is being wrongly blamed, while of course people like you call white people white trash.
*
*I specifically said in the OP that blacks and whites are poor for the same reasons.*

Lisa is a racist, and a racist who thinks her racism is a normal belief, so she is denying racism as a factor. Whites and blacks are not poor for the same reason. Not all whites are white trash. Only whites like Lisa.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 22, 2022)

EvilCat Breath said:


> You should run around shutting people up.  See how far you get.   No one cares about you, your fellow black asses and no, black lives don't matter.


I didn't ask for your opinion. I told you that blacks have paid taxes to help scrubs like you while we were excluded. That is what happened.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 22, 2022)

Death Angel said:


> Common sense eludes the pla tation blacks



Common sense eludes racist whites such as you.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 22, 2022)

EvilCat Breath said:


> Undocumented workers!   Criminal invaders.  They should be shot on sight.   I have no compassion at all.  The invaders should be butchered for zoo food.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Apr 22, 2022)

IM2 said:


> View attachment 634784


I am and you very well know it.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> On another thread, when I mentioned how I’ve dropped most of my Democrat friends after years of being told that only racists and morons voted for Trump - with them KNOWING I voted for Trump - one of the leftists criticized me for separating myself from toxic friends like that. What do these people think? That we should voluntarily subject ourselves to their rage for years on end?
> 
> I had one person call me the day before the election call and ask if I’ve come to my senses yet and will vote for Biden, or do I still plan to vote for the racist. I mean, really…..how much verbal abuse from “friends” is one expected to take?
> 
> ...



You should have engaged them.  Ask them what Trump ever said that was racist.  Then remind them of what Biden said, like I don't want my kids going into a racial jungle.  The problem in the black community is the parents are just as illiterate as their children.  They want to put ya'all back in chains.  He "Obama"  is articulate and* clean*.  Poor kids can be just as bright as white kids.

Then ask them why they voted for the most racist candidate in our lifetime for President.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 22, 2022)

ding said:


> No one is doing the black community any service by telling them they are victims and it's not your fault that you live in this ghetto.



No contractor takes a job to build a ghetto.  They build beautiful homes and businesses and people eventually move there and turn them into ghettos.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 22, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> You excused it just like people in your KLAN excuse all their bad behaviors.
> 
> "THEY DID IT TOO"
> 
> The formal and normal excuse for the Tiny minded "conservative."



Nobody is excusing anything.  The way things are going in this country, people in 100 years from now might consider us barbarians because we keep pets in our home instead of allowing them to be in the wild.  It's normal in our environment because a lot of people have pets in their home. 

Do you have any pets in your home?  Well then people in the future might consider you inhumane for doing so.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 22, 2022)

monkrules said:


> Totally agree with you.
> 
> Immigrants were needed when our country was new and expanding. And SKILLED immigrants are still needed.
> 
> ...



Exactly.  Our people have fought our own people and foreign wars throughout our history.  Freedom isn't free, it needs to be maintained even after you gain it. 

We worked night and day, seven days a week to make this the greatest country in the world in just a few hundred years.  Then we get these invaders that sneak into the country, look around and say "I like what you people did here, I think I'll stay and take advantage of your money, sweat and blood!"  

If you worked hard to have a beautiful and safe home, you don't leave your doors unlocked so homeless people can just stroll on in, make a meal in your kitchen, and sleep in your extra bedroom.  We keep our doors closed and locked to keep people like that out.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 22, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I came up with a very good topic for debate…..65 pages and still going. (Where’s my cookie???)
> 
> Just think how much better society would be, not just for blacks but for everyone, if leftists stopped pushing the blame game and a false narrative:
> 
> ...



What it boils down to is brainwashing which the MSM along with Democrats are responsible for.  Keep the people separated and fighting that way we can choose sides.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 22, 2022)

EvilCat Breath said:


> I am and you very well know it.


What I know is that you are completely wrong.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 22, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> No contractor takes a job to build a ghetto.  They build beautiful homes and businesses and people eventually move there and turn them into ghettos.


Wrong. You might need to go read about U.S. housing policy.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 23, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> What it boils down to is brainwashing which the MSM along with Democrats are responsible for.  Keep the people separated and fighting that way we can choose sides.


No it boils down to white losers who failed in life thinking everybody is like them. Such as you, a man living on disability in the hood. What was the poor choice that you made that ended up with you becoming disabled? Did you decide to do a swan dive from the second floor? After all that's the only reason people are in poverty isn't it Ray? They do it to themselves. And why do you get to sit on your ass sucking off the government tit Ray? Is that why you vote republican? Because they promise to keep your checks rolling?


----------



## IM2 (Apr 23, 2022)

*No one is doing the black community any service by telling them they are victims and it's not your fault that you live in this ghetto.*

Public policy created by racists tells us we are victims because those policies create the victimization.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 23, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Exactly.  Our people have fought our own people and foreign wars throughout our history.  Freedom isn't free, it needs to be maintained even after you gain it.
> 
> We worked night and day, seven days a week to make this the greatest country in the world in just a few hundred years.  Then we get these invaders that sneak into the country, look around and say "I like what you people did here, I think I'll stay and take advantage of your money, sweat and blood!"
> 
> If you worked hard to have a beautiful and safe home, you don't leave your doors unlocked so homeless people can just stroll on in, make a meal in your kitchen, and sleep in your extra bedroom.  We keep our doors closed and locked to keep people like that out.


You motherfuckers tried wiping out the people who were here when your asses showed up. You are descendants of illegal immigrants. You didn't do shit, my ancestors worked hard. What ye sows, ye shall also reap. God does not grant white privilege and since your asses illegally immigrated here the descendants of the people who came north to inhabit this land before the white man got here are returning for what is rightfully theirs.


----------



## ding (Apr 23, 2022)

IM2 said:


> *No one is doing the black community any service by telling them they are victims and it's not your fault that you live in this ghetto.*
> 
> Public policy created by racists tells us we are victims because those policies create the victimization.


Actually it's an external locus of control.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 23, 2022)

IM2 said:


> No it boils down to white losers who failed in life thinking everybody is like them. Such as you, a man living on disability in the hood. What was the poor choice that you made that ended up with you becoming disabled? Did you decide to do a swan dive from the second floor? After all that's the only reason people are in poverty isn't it Ray? They do it to themselves. And why do you get to sit on your ass sucking off the government tit Ray? Is that why you vote republican? Because they promise to keep your checks rolling?



Now, IM, Ray is totally deserving those disability checks.    

True, he knew for years his medical issues were going to at some point make it impossible for him to work as a truck driver, but it wasn't like he was keen to get other skills. 
And don't you dare ask him to take a customer service job sitting behind a desk at a computer when that might cut into his sitting behind a desk at a computer whining about black people all day.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 23, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Exactly. Our people have fought our own people and foreign wars throughout our history. Freedom isn't free, it needs to be maintained even after you gain it.
> 
> We worked night and day, seven days a week to make this the greatest country in the world in just a few hundred years. Then we get these invaders that sneak into the country, look around and say "I like what you people did here, I think I'll stay and take advantage of your money, sweat and blood!"
> 
> If you worked hard to have a beautiful and safe home, you don't leave your doors unlocked so homeless people can just stroll on in, make a meal in your kitchen, and sleep in your extra bedroom. We keep our doors closed and locked to keep people like that out.



Welfare Ray - the master of the tortured analogy! 

If we were to take your analogy to it's logical conclusion, then the person we should punish is the member of your household who keeps inviting the homeless person in.  

The undocumented don't come here to get "Free stuff", they come here because rich white people offer them jobs. 

Whether it be picking lettuce, or raising their yuppie larva, or doing that home improvement project that wasn't as easy as Chip and Joanna made it look, we all benefit from undocumented labor. 

You see, before you guys got all crazy about the border and your morbid fear a Mexican might date your daughter, migrant workers would come up for a season, make a lot of money and then go home and live very well.    Then you idiots decided that making it more of a pain to get here was a great idea, so they would just come once and not deal with the hassle of travelling back and forth. 

The easy solution would be to crack down on the people hiring them, while allowing for a guest worker program


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 23, 2022)

IM2 said:


> You motherfuckers tried wiping out the people who were here when your asses showed up. You are descendants of illegal immigrants. You didn't do shit, my ancestors worked hard. What ye sows, ye shall also reap. God does not grant white privilege and since your asses illegally immigrated here the descendants of the people who came north to inhabit this land before the white man got here are returning for what is rightfully theirs.



What do you mean illegally immigrated here?  Show us the law written when we founded this great country that we weren't allowed to come here.  In fact there was no such thing as illegal immigrants after we formed this country for many years, there was only immigrants.  When things started to get out of control, we had to secure our country so people didn't come here and change it to the places they left like they are today.  

Yes, we did create this great place called the United States.  Blacks and slaves were a small minority back then even more so than now.  You don't work simply to work, work has to be orchestrated and funded just like today.  You have to have the education, money and experience to build infrastructure. 

You claim you are black.  Who is hurt the most by these illegals?  That's right, black people, because black people often take manual labor jobs that are being stolen from them by the Democrat party.  They come here and undercut your wages just like they do to whites.  And if it's not bad enough blacks lag behind in education, these illegals are putting their children in your schools where the kids don't know a word of English.  They are holding all our children up.  

You better wake up and smell the roses.  The Democrats have been throwing your people under the bus and still are today.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 23, 2022)

IM2 said:


> No it boils down to white losers who failed in life thinking everybody is like them. Such as you, a man living on disability in the hood. What was the poor choice that you made that ended up with you becoming disabled? Did you decide to do a swan dive from the second floor? After all that's the only reason people are in poverty isn't it Ray? They do it to themselves. And why do you get to sit on your ass sucking off the government tit Ray? Is that why you vote republican? Because they promise to keep your checks rolling?



My health is none of your business, but I will tell you it was a government doctor that told me I could no longer work when I took my annual government physical.  In fact when I applied for disability two years ago, they didn't even call me in for an interview; none of their doctors wanted to see me.  They just looked at my medical records which I gladly submitted to them and determined I was unable to work any longer.  It wasn't a decision I made.  Nobody decides they will be disabled.  It's not something you can fake. 

I'm not in poverty.  Instead of having kids that would financially hold me back, I made real estate investments.  I learned a career.  I planned my life many, many years ago so I didn't have to live in poverty.  That's how intelligent people stay out of poverty.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 23, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Wrong. You might need to go read about U.S. housing policy.



Really?  US housing policy erected closed down boarded up stores with graffiti on the walls?  They built areas with garbage already in the streets?  They taught people how to be criminals?  

You forget where I'm from, or don't know history.  Cleveland was built as an immigrant city.  Yes, the houses were not very big, not a lot of property, but we moved from Cleveland in 1967.  It was a great place to live.  Today it's a ghetto.  You can look it up yourself.  The area is called Slavic Village.  When I was a child my grandparents (who lived downstairs from us) used to sleep every summer night with the door wide open and only the screen door with a fan in front of it to bring in cooler fresh air.  They didn't believe in AC back then.  Thriving businesses everywhere, churches packed on Sunday, and you could walk down the street in safety day or night.  

They didn't build ghettos, they built affordable housing.  It's like I've always said, it's the neighbors that make the neighborhood.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 23, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> What do you mean illegally immigrated here? Show us the law written when we founded this great country that we weren't allowed to come here. In fact there was no such thing as illegal immigrants after we formed this country for many years, there was only immigrants. When things started to get out of control, we had to secure our country so people didn't come here and change it to the places they left like they are today.



Obviously, you are ignorant of immigration history.  We've tried to restrict foreigners all through our history.   150 years ago it was the Irish, 100 years ago it was the Germans and Italians, and 50 years ago it was the Poles.   



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yes, we did create this great place called the United States. Blacks and slaves were a small minority back then even more so than now. You don't work simply to work, work has to be orchestrated and funded just like today. You have to have the education, money and experience to build infrastructure.



So, um, why do you live in a slum on welfare?  If you were part of the so-called Master Race that did all the wonderful things?  



Ray From Cleveland said:


> You claim you are black. Who is hurt the most by these illegals? That's right, black people, because black people often take manual labor jobs that are being stolen from them by the Democrat party. They come here and undercut your wages just like they do to whites. And if it's not bad enough blacks lag behind in education, these illegals are putting their children in your schools where the kids don't know a word of English. They are holding all our children up.



Or we could make the 1% pay their fair share and fund education adequately...  to create the future workforce that we need in a technical world... but that's just crazy talk. 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> You better wake up and smell the roses. The Democrats have been throwing your people under the bus and still are today.



Yes, IM needs a racist white man to tell him what's what.  



Ray From Cleveland said:


> My health is none of your business, but I will tell you it was a government doctor that told me I could no longer work when I took my annual government physical. In fact when I applied for disability two years ago, they didn't even call me in for an interview; none of their doctors wanted to see me. They just looked at my medical records which I gladly submitted to them and determined I was unable to work any longer. It wasn't a decision I made. Nobody decides they will be disabled. It's not something you can fake.



Because the ONLY  JOB you could possibly ever do is driving a truck. You fingers would burn if you had to do customer service.  



Ray From Cleveland said:


> I'm not in poverty. Instead of having kids that would financially hold me back, I made real estate investments. I learned a career. I planned my life many, many years ago so I didn't have to live in poverty. That's how intelligent people stay out of poverty.



And yet you still live in a slum.  Require a government check to make ends meet.  



Ray From Cleveland said:


> You forget where I'm from, or don't know history. Cleveland was built as an immigrant city. Yes, the houses were not very big, not a lot of property, but we moved from Cleveland in 1967. It was a great place to live. Today it's a ghetto. You can look it up yourself. The area is called Slavic Village. When I was a child my grandparents (who lived downstairs from us) used to sleep every summer night with the door wide open and only the screen door with a fan in front of it to bring in cooler fresh air. They didn't believe in AC back then. Thriving businesses everywhere, churches packed on Sunday, and you could walk down the street in safety day or night.



You leave out the reason why Cleveland became a Zombie Movie set... because when the Auto Industry was a thing, and they were fine with polluting the region to the point where the Cuyahoga caught on fire and Lake Eerie was such a metaphor for water pollution that even Dr. Seuss was dissing you.  So when industries decided they wanted to build new, efficient factories, they weren't building it in your toxic waste dump.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 23, 2022)

ding said:


> Actually it's an external locus of control.


Wrong. I'm black and the problem is racist white people in decision making positions.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 23, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Really?  US housing policy erected closed down boarded up stores with graffiti on the walls?  They built areas with garbage already in the streets?  They taught people how to be criminals?
> 
> You forget where I'm from, or don't know history.  Cleveland was built as an immigrant city.  Yes, the houses were not very big, not a lot of property, but we moved from Cleveland in 1967.  It was a great place to live.  Today it's a ghetto.  You can look it up yourself.  The area is called Slavic Village.  When I was a child my grandparents (who lived downstairs from us) used to sleep every summer night with the door wide open and only the screen door with a fan in front of it to bring in cooler fresh air.  They didn't believe in AC back then.  Thriving businesses everywhere, churches packed on Sunday, and you could walk down the street in safety day or night.
> 
> They didn't build ghettos, they built affordable housing.  It's like I've always said, it's the neighbors that make the neighborhood.



I have family members from Cleveland Ray.

Ray, you really need to shut up. U.S. housing policy created slums. White landlords outside of these community who own most of those boarded up buildings are writing off depreciation on their taxes and getting money back from the government as those buildings sit boarded up.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 23, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Obviously, you are ignorant of immigration history.  We've tried to restrict foreigners all through our history.   150 years ago it was the Irish, 100 years ago it was the Germans and Italians, and 50 years ago it was the Poles.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have relatives there. Ray is full of excuses.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 23, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> What do you mean illegally immigrated here? Show us the law written when we founded this great country that we weren't allowed to come here. In fact there was no such thing as illegal immigrants after we formed this country for many years, there was only immigrants. When things started to get out of control, we had to secure our country so people didn't come here and change it to the places they left like they are today.


I mean you descend from illegal immigrants. That's what happened. Don't come with that malarkey about finding laws. You descend from people who came over here without permission. There were 500 nations in this country when whites floated over here.




Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yes, we did create this great place called the United States. Blacks and slaves were a small minority back then even more so than now. You don't work simply to work, work has to be orchestrated and funded just like today. You have to have the education, money and experience to build infrastructure.



Sorry, but the fact is that whites owned slaves because they were too lazy to work. You did not create shit. Go buy the book 1491 and you will learn that what you believe is in error. At the end of slavery, 80 percent of Americas GNP was tied to slavery. So slavery built this country. He to burst your little white supremacist fairy tale. Not! Well actually, I love busting your lie in your white racist face.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> You claim you are black. Who is hurt the most by these illegals? That's right, black people, because black people often take manual labor jobs that are being stolen from them by the Democrat party. They come here and undercut your wages just like they do to whites. And if it's not bad enough blacks lag behind in education, these illegals are putting their children in your schools where the kids don't know a word of English. They are holding all our children up.



Ain't too many blacks picking cabbage or processing chicken or beef Ray. So your little racist claim is wrong as usual.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> You better wake up and smell the roses. The Democrats have been throwing your people under the bus and still are today.



The republican party is full of racists like you. So I will keep voting democrat.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> My health is none of your business, but I will tell you it was a government doctor that told me I could no longer work when I took my annual government physical. In fact when I applied for disability two years ago, they didn't even call me in for an interview; none of their doctors wanted to see me. They just looked at my medical records which I gladly submitted to them and determined I was unable to work any longer. It wasn't a decision I made. Nobody decides they will be disabled. It's not something you can fake.


When you talk the shit you do, it is. And I  don't give a damn if a government doctor gave the assessment. You run your mouth about poverty being self inflicted. You live in poverty, so apparently your disability was self inflicted.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> I'm not in poverty. Instead of having kids that would financially hold me back, I made real estate investments. I learned a career. I planned my life many, many years ago so I didn't have to live in poverty. That's how intelligent people stay out of poverty.


Ray, your racism allows you to ignore facts. Blacks do everything you have done. Intelligent people don't lie to themselves about the impact of racism.


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 23, 2022)

I'm going to be honest here.

I'm for stopping all immigration.

Because the immigants who come here (Black or white or Asian) most of them are hostile and show the same level contempt that whites show towards black americans. A lot of them have the same white supremacist mindset as many whites.

This is a 50 year plan and whites are gonna make many places in the USA full of hostile anti black immigrants who will integrate in the USA because what it means to integrate into the US is that you are willing to hate on black people

This is to be the final solution. That white supremacists are going to drown out the black population with hostile non black people and even hostile African immigrants who are willing to hate on black people


----------



## IM2 (Apr 23, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> I'm going to be honest here.
> 
> I'm for stopping all immigration.
> 
> ...


There are some Africans who are like that. That's true and these racists use them to the max.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 23, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> I'm going to be honest here.
> 
> I'm for stopping all immigration.
> 
> ...



Now, as repulsive as I find the racism of Lisa and Ray, this kind of shit isn't any better than what they are doing. 

I will agree, blacks should have some resentment when any immigrant jumps the line in front of them... but sometimes you have to make the effort to move the line forward. 

If there are whites who have an opinion that blacks are lazy, then your best defense is to be the best worker that you can, not complain that some Asian actually jumped ahead of you by working a bit harder.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 23, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Obviously, you are ignorant of immigration history.  We've tried to restrict foreigners all through our history.   150 years ago it was the Irish, 100 years ago it was the Germans and Italians, and 50 years ago it was the Poles.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You don't know your history.  All those people were welcomed into the country.  The only restrictions they faces were to be in good health, not have criminal records and be able to support themselves and not be a burden on society.  Before Ellis Island was set up, even those restrictions weren't enforced.  If they could pay for a boat ticket they were welcome.  Once they got here they faced discrimination;  often from the group that had immediately preceded them in immigration.  When the US needed people to fill the country and all those industrial age jobs everyone was welcome and everyone was exploited by the rich.  No we don't need illiterate peasants, there are few jobs for people without at least a basic education.  So our immigration policy has changed.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 23, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> You don't know your history. All those people were welcomed into the country. The only restrictions they faces were to be in good health, not have criminal records and be able to support themselves and not be a burden on society. Before Ellis Island was set up, even those restrictions weren't enforced. If they could pay for a boat ticket they were welcome. Once they got here they faced discrimination; often from the group that had immediately preceded them in immigration. When the US needed people to fill the country and all those industrial age jobs everyone was welcome and everyone was exploited by the rich. No we don't need illiterate peasants, there are few jobs for people without at least a basic education. So our immigration policy has changed.



Actually, what changed was "White people stopped showing up because Europe is nicer than America these days." 

The fact is, there are plenty of shit jobs Americans don't want to do.  There always will be.  The promise of immigration is you take the shit job so your kid can have the better job. 

The thing is, the One Percent have spent the last 50 years doing backsies on the gains made by white working people, but you nitwits blame the immigrants.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 23, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Now, as repulsive as I find the racism of Lisa and Ray, this kind of shit isn't any better than what they are doing.
> 
> I will agree, blacks should have some resentment when any immigrant jumps the line in front of them... but sometimes you have to make the effort to move the line forward.
> 
> If there are whites who have an opinion that blacks are lazy, then your best defense is to be the best worker that you can, not complain that some Asian actually jumped ahead of you by working a bit harder.


Except that the Asian may not be ahead because they work harder. Blacks have been the best they can be and still get passed over. Asians don't work harder than us, racists reward them because they are assumed to be quiet and take the racism they face while blacks get punished for fighting the racism we face.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 23, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> You don't know your history.  All those people were welcomed into the country.  The only restrictions they faces were to be in good health, not have criminal records and be able to support themselves and not be a burden on society.  Before Ellis Island was set up, even those restrictions weren't enforced.  If they could pay for a boat ticket they were welcome.  Once they got here they faced discrimination;  often from the group that had immediately preceded them in immigration.  When the US needed people to fill the country and all those industrial age jobs everyone was welcome and everyone was exploited by the rich.  No we don't need illiterate peasants, there are few jobs for people without at least a basic education.  So our immigration policy has changed.



White ethnic groups discriminated against each other for a short time then recognized they all were white and played the race card against people of color.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 23, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> You don't know your history.  All those people were welcomed into the country.  The only restrictions they faces were to be in good health, not have criminal records and be able to support themselves and not be a burden on society.  Before Ellis Island was set up, even those restrictions weren't enforced.  If they could pay for a boat ticket they were welcome.  Once they got here they faced discrimination;  often from the group that had immediately preceded them in immigration.  When the US needed people to fill the country and all those industrial age jobs everyone was welcome and everyone was exploited by the rich.  No we don't need illiterate peasants, there are few jobs for people without at least a basic education.  So our immigration policy has changed.


Yes, exactly. My relatives arrived legally, at Ellis Island, and went through the legitimate process - meeting all requirements. Also had to have a medical screening, and a sponsor who would see that you didn’t become a burden on existing Americans. Then they went to work in dark, dank sweatshops 12 hours a day to put food on the table and a roof over their heads. (A generation later, all were college graduates.) Enough with t black racists claiming whiteys snuck in and lazed about.

People who claim that we are all descended from illegal immigrants are wrong -  and obviously a leftist trying to play down what the illegals are doing at the southern border,


----------



## bripat9643 (Apr 23, 2022)

IM2 said:


> No it boils down to white losers who failed in life thinking everybody is like them. Such as you, a man living on disability in the hood. What was the poor choice that you made that ended up with you becoming disabled? Did you decide to do a swan dive from the second floor? After all that's the only reason people are in poverty isn't it Ray? They do it to themselves. And why do you get to sit on your ass sucking off the government tit Ray? Is that why you vote republican? Because they promise to keep your checks rolling?


What a gigantic asshole


----------



## bripat9643 (Apr 23, 2022)

IM2 said:


> *No one is doing the black community any service by telling them they are victims and it's not your fault that you live in this ghetto.*
> 
> Public policy created by racists tells us we are victims because those policies create the victimization.


True, white liberals lied to you about the reason for your poverty.  We always like people who tell us that our problems are not our fault, that they guy who is having a better time in life is the one who is at fault.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 23, 2022)

bripat9643 said:


> What a gigantic asshole


Oh I'm an asshole while you motherfuckers say this kind of shit to us every day.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 23, 2022)

bripat9643 said:


> True, white liberals lied to you about the reason for your poverty.  We always like people who tell us that our problems are not our fault, that they guy who is having a better time in life is the one who is at fault.



White liberals didn't tell me shit. 

In 1959 poverty for blacks was 55.1 percent. For whites, it was 18.1. Black poverty was 3.04 times that of whites. This was five years before the Civil Rights Act and during legalized segregation. In 1966, poverty for Blacks was 41.8 percent. For whites, it was 11.3 percent. Black poverty was 3.69 times that of whites. This was two years after the Civil Rights Act, and the country was trying to figure out how to get to equality. In 1974, poverty for Blacks was 30.3 percent. For Whites, 8.6 percent. Black poverty was 3.52 times that of whites ten years after the Civil Rights Act was passed. In 1984, poverty for Blacks was 33.8 percent. For Whites, 11.5 percent. Black poverty was still 2.94 times that of whites 20 years after the Civil Rights Act. One would think that if a real concerted effort had been made relative to hiring and equal pay, this would not be the case.

In 2004, the poverty rate for Blacks was 24.7 percent. For Whites, 10.8 percent. Black poverty was 2.28 times that of whites 40 years after the Civil Rights Act. In 40 years, black poverty was still twice that of whites. The difference between blacks and whites had decreased by less than 1 point. Either programs and policies designed to lower poverty in the black community did not work, or the necessary emphasis was not placed on trying to do what it takes to reduce poverty in the black community so that it was at least comparable to that of whites.

In 2014, the Black poverty rate was 26.2 percent. For Whites, 12.7 percent. Fifty years after the Civil Rights Act was passed and members of the American right determined that racism was a thing of the past, black poverty was still two times that of whites., In 2020 we heard all the bragging from President number 45 and his followers about all the great things he did for black people. When he left office, poverty for Blacks was 19.3 percent. For Whites, it was 8.2 percent. Despite the claims of President number 45, Black poverty was two times that of whites. Since 1959 no matter how low or high poverty has been, blacks have continued living at double the white and overall American poverty rate. Increased high school and college graduation rates have not changed this discrepancy. 

At no time from 1959 through 2020 have whites and blacks come close to having equal income. It has not mattered whether America was practicing segregation. It has not mattered that blacks have become better educated. It has not mattered if black households were traditional two parent, two cars, a dog, two children having, good church-going members of American society. We have had two terms of a black president, and still, the median income for blacks has been less than whites. Most certainly, if a black man can manage a nation, he can run a corporation. If a black woman can run the second-largest Department of Justice in America and serve as Vice President, she can manage your local Wal-Mart. Sixty-eight years ago, Brown v. Topeka ended segregation in schools. Fifty-eight years ago, Civil Rights for everyone became law. This situation is not about the failure of “black culture” or so-called liberal handout policies. The root cause of the problems blacks face today is continuing white racism.

U.S. Census Bureau, Current Population Survey, 1960 to 2021 Annual Social and Economic Supplements (CPS ASEC). _Table 2. Poverty Status of People by Family Relationship, Race, and Hispanic Origin: 1959 to 2020_, 404: Page Not Found

U.S. Census Bureau, Current Population Survey, 1968 to 2021 Annual Social and Economic Supplements (CPS ASEC)., _Table H-5. Race and Hispanic Origin of Householder--Households by Median and Mean Income: 1967 to 2020_, Historical Income Tables: Households

This is what tells me. Stop lying to yourself then try telling me that the lie you tell yourself is how things are. The root cause of the problems blacks face is white racism. I'm black. I've faced that racism. I know what it does. You have done none of these things. So shut the hell up and listen.


----------



## bripat9643 (Apr 23, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Oh I'm an asshole while you motherfuckers say this kind of shit to us every day.


Let's see.  Prog assholes like you call us "racist," "sexist," "traitors," "Nazis", "stupid,"  "bigots,"  "white losers who failed in life ," "white supremacists,"  yada, yada, yada.

Stick it where the sun don't shine, asshole.  

Live by the sword.  Die by the sword.


----------



## bripat9643 (Apr 23, 2022)

IM2 said:


> White liberals didn't tell me shit.



Of course they did.  White liberals told you everything in your post.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 23, 2022)

There is nothing racist about saying that blacks could solve their own problems with poverty (of the 25% in poverty) by waiting for babies and finishing school. What’s racist would be to say we have to give blacks money because they are incapable of getting out of poverty on their own.

This pattern of libs screeching “raaaaacist” at people pointing out the obvious - study after study shows delaying childbearing and completing school is the key to moving out of poverty - is promoting a sense of victimhood among poor blacks instead of empowerment. Plus, it’s just the nasty libs way of cutting off a debate.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 23, 2022)

IM2 said:


> White ethnic groups discriminated against each other for a short time then recognized they all were white and played the race card against people of color.



I wouldn't say it was for a short time.  My father was told he couldn't join the bricklayers union because of his Polish heritage.  The only reason they let him in was because he was a Korean war vet.  If not for that, he never would have had the career he had.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 23, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Except that the Asian may not be ahead because they work harder. Blacks have been the best they can be and still get passed over. Asians don't work harder than us, racists reward them because they are assumed to be quiet and take the racism they face while blacks get punished for fighting the racism we face.



Depends on what you mean by working harder. They may not be able to dig a ditch any faster than blacks but they bust their asses to learn as much as they can in school so they can advance themselves.  

One time I had an Asian/ American student.  Teaching him was the easiest person I ever had to teach.  After his lesson he'd be back the next week playing his lesson like a professional guitarist.  I couldn't give him enough work to do, and I've been teaching for quite a long time.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 23, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> I'm going to be honest here.
> 
> I'm for stopping all immigration.
> 
> ...



That post tells us a lot right there:  Everybody is racist or going to be racist.  Racism is all around you 24/7.  

So tell me, if that's the way you feel, do you support the Democrat party who is ushering them into this country, or the Republicans who want to keep them out?


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 23, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Depends on what you mean by working harder. They may not be able to dig a ditch any faster than blacks but they bust their asses to learn as much as they can in school so they can advance themselves.
> 
> One time I had an Asian/ American student.  Teaching him was the easiest person I ever had to teach.  After his lesson he'd be back the next week playing his lesson like a professional guitarist.  I couldn't give him enough work to do, and I've been teaching for quite a long time.


My best experience as a tutor was with an Asian/American student as well. He was an engineering major, and bright, but his English was poor, given that he had only been in the country a short while.

First, he was very appreciative of the fact that I was doing this as a volunteer, and thanked me after each session.

Second, he was motivated, disciplined, and determined to master the content. I remember one time I couldn’t meet with him on Tuesday, our weekly time, and suggested we just meet the following week. He asked if there was any way I could find sometime during the current week so he wouldn‘t miss a session.

Third, he did every part of every home work assignment I gave him.

Fourth, he was ALWAYS on time.

I probably had a dozen students over the few years I volunteered, and he was far and way the best of the bunch. Come to think of it, he exhibited the ”traits of whiteness” the Smithsonian listed with derision.


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 23, 2022)

JoeB131
*Now, as repulsive as I find the racism of Lisa and Ray, this kind of shit isn't any better than what they are doing.*

How does immigration help foundational black Americans ? We don't need immigrants coming here with their anti black American hatred. They just allocated billions and trillions to Afghan and Ukrainean refugees and they ain't even citizens

*

*
​


*

*​Yet when it comes to black people demanding repariations, the blk ppl who built this country, created the wealth of the country, fought in every was for this country. This is what we get






They sit these immigrants in black areas and they get housing, EBT card, WIC. So we get hit on ALL AROUND. And we can't go to their countries unless we have a bag of money.

*And I'm gonna say something else. *

It's these immigrants (_to a large extent_) that flood black communities with drugs. Haitian immigrants, italian immigrants and that crime gets dumped on black Americans and seen as a "_black thing_"

Now when it's something positive like a Haitian or Nigerian Doctor getting a PHD from Harvard or Yale ? It'll b _"this Nigerian Doctor"_ etc "t_his haitian lawyer_" _"Nigerian kids are so smart and kicking ass in school"_

O they *MAKE SURE* to differentiate themselves from black americans when they do something to put them in a good light.

If they were black immigrants with the same mentality as Nelson Mandela, Julius Malema or Robert Mugabe then I'd be the first to have them here but these Stepin Fetchit types, Steven From Django types they have to go

JoeB131
*If there are whites who have an opinion that blacks are lazy, then your best defense is to be the best worker that you can*

But the problem with this statement is that your making the value of black people conditional.

Are black people lazy ? But then I thought that black people are getting all these undeserved jobs via AA ? We can't be both.

Racism tries to break you in two ways

1. Physically
2. Psychologically.

Foundational Black Americans are broken physically meaning we get dumped on in terms of jobs, money, housing, investment but we (_for the most part_) are not broken psychologically

It takes courage to step to the the most powerful country on earth against a group that have shown they will use that to kill you.

But black American have done that and we do that knowing we are out gunned, out financed and out numbered.

That's because black American are not psychologically broken. That's why the arrows of racism is aimed at us so much. We don't look up to their opinion like you do. 

*A lot of non white immigrants are psychologically broken.*

We know whites are not gonna stop practicing white supremacy just because blk ppl mow their lawns, stay in school, have no out of wedlock kids.

Obama was smart, educated, successful and worked hard and a good family man but he got more racial contempt than any blk man alive.

JoeB131
*not complain that some Asian actually jumped ahead of you by working a bit harder.*

Who is complaining about Asians ? You said that not me.

And let's be clear on this "_hard working_" Asians thing. I'll tell you one place the Asian do work hard that's to put filth in our community.














They do this and ppl like you sit bk and say _"Well erm, ya know you blks just need to work harder"_

And it was black Americans who work hard for Asians to come over here in the first place. They didn't allow black or non white immigrants to come here in large numbers before we fought for the 1965 immigration act.

*Also Muhammad Ali gave up his best boxing years for Asians.*

He was out the sport for 3 years because he didn't want to got to Vietnam and harm Asian people






Black Americans In the 1960's are the one who called BULLSHIT on the war in Nam.  It was the black panthers speaking out against the Vietnam war






We are the economic base for Asians and that's NEVER been returned because Asians have a policy of not spending dime with blk ppl. And we better not go to their countries coz the anti blk racism is so deep there.

So asians were allowed to be at the front of the queue as a buffer class between black and white people. That's you've never had a China Town that was blown up like the black wall street.

Let the white supremacist sabotage Canal Street in New York. See how they get on after that ?






So Asians work in tandem with the white supremacists to keep the system rigged because the people it's rigged against for the most part is black people.

You remove black people's issues then you are automatically back to white supremacy because black people are the only ones fighting it.

Black people are the only people who practice meritocracy. Where as everybody else is caught in cheating scandals, tutoring scandals, payoff scandals, degree scandals.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 23, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yes, exactly. My relatives arrived legally, at Ellis Island, and went through the legitimate process - meeting all requirements. Also had to have a medical screening, and a sponsor who would see that you didn’t become a burden on existing Americans. Then they went to work in dark, dank sweatshops 12 hours a day to put food on the table and a roof over their heads. (A generation later, all were college graduates.) Enough with t black racists claiming whiteys snuck in and lazed about.
> 
> People who claim that we are all descended from illegal immigrants are wrong - and obviously a leftist trying to play down what the illegals are doing at the southern border,



Your ancestors had a choice on whether to come here. 

Blacks did not.  

Coming here was actually an IMPROVEMENT over living in Europe for most Jews. 
Getting brought here in chains was NOT an improvement for most blacks. 

There were not 400 years of anti-Jewish laws to keep you down. 
There were 400 years of anti-black laws to keep them down. 

White Americans fought a war to keep blacks as slaves. 
White Americans fought a war to keep Hitler from turning more Jews into lampshades. 

It's really not comparable at all.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 23, 2022)

Paul, I can appreciate that you've probably suffered some serious racism in your life, and I can see why you are a bitter guy.  You need to direct that energy in a more positive area. 



Paul Essien said:


> How does immigration help foundational black Americans ? We don't need immigrants coming here with their anti black American hatred. They just allocated billions and trillions to Afghan and Ukrainean refugees and they ain't even citizens



And how much has the US spent on various welfare programs in the last 50 years?   

Immigration helps ALL Americans, because right now, we are in a demographic death spiral.  Too many people getting old, not enough new babies to replace them.  They only way we get to equilibrium is bringing more people in. 

And I will say the same thing to you that I say to any white bigot like Ray or Flash whining about immigrants.  If you have failed so hard that someone with no money, no connections and a limited grasp on the English language is beating you 




Paul Essien said:


> It's these immigrants (_to a large extent_) that flood black communities with drugs. Haitian immigrants, italian immigrants and that crime gets dumped on black Americans and seen as a "_black thing_"



At the end of the day, drugs are only a problem because people take them.  Now, I think we need to refocus the war on drugs away from punishment and towards treatment. But you can't really blame anyone for created a supply when you are the ones created the demand.  



Paul Essien said:


> But the problem with this statement is that your making the value of black people conditional.
> 
> Are black people lazy ? But then I thought that black people are getting all these undeserved jobs via AA ? We can't be both.
> 
> ...



I hate to break this to you, but EVERYONE'S value is conditional.   I get paid because either my customers or my employers value my quality of work. 

Now, frankly, most of the black folks I've worked with are damned hard workers.   But it's always that one guy who comes into work with an attitude that make everyone else look bad.  



Paul Essien said:


> And it was black Americans who work hard for Asians to come over here in the first place. They didn't allow black or non white immigrants to come here in large numbers before we fought for the 1965 immigration act.
> 
> *Also Muhammad Ali gave up his best boxing years for Asians.*
> 
> He was out the sport for 3 years because he didn't want to got to Vietnam and harm Asian people



Uh, no, he gave up his sport because he didn't want to serve a country that had given him so much.  Avoiding military service doesn't get you a lot of points with me, but maybe because I am a third generation veteran.  (Although to be fair, my Grandfather fought for the Kaiser, but the point is, he still served his country.) 



Paul Essien said:


> So Asians work in tandem with the white supremacists to keep the system rigged because the people it's rigged against for the most part is black people.
> 
> You remove black people's issues then you are automatically back to white supremacy because black people are the only ones fighting it.
> 
> Black people are the only people who practice meritocracy. Where as everybody else is caught in cheating scandals, tutoring scandals, payoff scandals, degree scandals.



I agree, there needs to be more opportunities..  I've been arguing with Lisa558 for months about her whining about college admissions. 

But sometimes you have to go with the hand you are dealt.   I didn't get into the college I wanted to get into.  I also had to deal with both of my parents suffering terminal illnesses while I was in college.   I worked two minimum wage jobs and joined the National Guard to pay for college. 

Of course, when I was in the guard, I saw a lot of guys who joined the guard for that same scholarship money.  Some of them couldn't master basic problems like math or simple grammar.  Or knew basic facts of history like when WWI was fought.   So they often failed in their first year and then stopped showing up for drills.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 23, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Your ancestors had a choice on whether to come here.
> 
> Blacks did not.
> 
> ...


Jews living in this country had their mothers, and fathers, sisters, and brothers, and nieces, and nephews MURDERED - in their own lifetimes - and still moved from poverty to the upper middle class in one single generation.

And that is where your antisemitism comes from. How DARE a people that has been persecuted for 2,000 years be so successful? It makes it hard for blacks and libs to blame racism - rather than their own choices - for their failures.

And now, I’m putting you back on ignore. I just couldn’t resist seeing how you lie and skew the Jews’ experience.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 23, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> There is nothing racist about saying that blacks could solve their own problems with poverty (of the 25% in poverty) by waiting for babies and finishing school. What’s racist would be to say we have to give blacks money because they are incapable of getting out of poverty on their own.
> 
> This pattern of libs screeching “raaaaacist” at people pointing out the obvious - study after study shows delaying childbearing and completing school is the key to moving out of poverty - is promoting a sense of victimhood among poor blacks instead of empowerment. Plus, it’s just the nasty libs way of cutting off a debate.



One more time... All those black kid who got 3.2 GPA's and 1400 on the SAT that you tried to block out of your elite school did everything you said, and there was still someone like you standing in the doorway like this guy.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 23, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Jews living in this country had their mothers, and fathers, sisters, and brothers, and nieces, and nephews MURDERED - in their own lifetimes - and still move from poverty to the upper middle class in one single generation.



If they had enough money to get here, then they weren't living in poverty.  

My grandparents came here from Germany (after France occupied the Rhineland) in 1925... but like most European immigrants, they were considered "White enough" to get access to the mainstream. 

Nobody passed laws keeping Jews from using the same water fountains as Christians... or keeping them from marrying the _goyim_...


----------



## Muhammed (Apr 23, 2022)

IM2 said:


> White liberals didn't tell me shit.
> 
> In 1959 poverty for blacks was 55.1 percent. For whites, it was 18.1. Black poverty was 3.04 times that of whites. This was five years before the Civil Rights Act and during legalized segregation. In 1966, poverty for Blacks was 41.8 percent. For whites, it was 11.3 percent. Black poverty was 3.69 times that of whites. This was two years after the Civil Rights Act, and the country was trying to figure out how to get to equality. In 1974, poverty for Blacks was 30.3 percent. For Whites, 8.6 percent. Black poverty was 3.52 times that of whites ten years after the Civil Rights Act was passed. In 1984, poverty for Blacks was 33.8 percent. For Whites, 11.5 percent. Black poverty was still 2.94 times that of whites 20 years after the Civil Rights Act. One would think that if a real concerted effort had been made relative to hiring and equal pay, this would not be the case.
> 
> ...


Due to his economic policies, the black poverty rate under Trump was at an historical record low for blacks.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 23, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I wouldn't say it was for a short time.  My father was told he couldn't join the bricklayers union because of his Polish heritage.  The only reason they let him in was because he was a Korean war vet.  If not for that, he never would have had the career he had.


It was shorter than both groups have discriminated against us.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 23, 2022)

Muhammed said:


> Due to his economic policies, the black poverty rate under Trump was at an historical record low for blacks.


No, it was due to Obamas policies but black poverty was still double that of whites.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 23, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Jews living in this country had their mothers, and fathers, sisters, and brothers, and nieces, and nephews MURDERED - in their own lifetimes - and still moved from poverty to the upper middle class in one single generation.
> 
> And that is where your antisemitism comes from. How DARE a people that has been persecuted for 2,000 years be so successful? It makes it hard for blacks and libs to blame racism - rather than their own choices - for their failures.
> 
> And now, I’m putting you back on ignore. I just couldn’t resist seeing how you lie and skew the Jews’ experience.


Jews are a religion. Blacks were murdered and white jews like you practiced racism against blacks.


----------



## Muhammed (Apr 23, 2022)

IM2 said:


> No, it was due to Obamas policies but black poverty was still double that of whites.


And you're simply saying that because you're a piece of shit anti-white racist low IQ TDS afflicted moron.

You're a parody.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 23, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Paul, I can appreciate that you've probably suffered some serious racism in your life, and I can see why you are a bitter guy.  You need to direct that energy in a more positive area.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Joe, the country gave Ali segregation and racism. That's why he refused to fight.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 23, 2022)

Muhammed said:


> And you're simply saying that because you're a piece of shit anti-white racist low IQ TDS afflicted moron.
> 
> You're a parody.


I'm quite sure my IQ is higher than yours and what I stated was fact.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 23, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Depends on what you mean by working harder. They may not be able to dig a ditch any faster than blacks but they bust their asses to learn as much as they can in school so they can advance themselves.
> 
> One time I had an Asian/ American student.  Teaching him was the easiest person I ever had to teach.  After his lesson he'd be back the next week playing his lesson like a professional guitarist.  I couldn't give him enough work to do, and I've been teaching for quite a long time.


It means working harder. We bust our asses in school. I have degrees. You don't. So don't lecture me about some fucking Asian busting their ass to learn. The ONLY reason you racists try throwing Asians in our face is because you think Asians are soft and they take your shit without fighting back, while we'll take your racist asses to the hoop every time.


----------



## Muhammed (Apr 23, 2022)

IM2 said:


> I'm quite sure my IQ is higher than yours and what I stated was fact.


You're such a fucking stupid, low IQ, and therefore easily brainwashed moron, that you probably think it's a fact.

You have proven to this forum over and over again that you are a racist idiot. 

Take a poll if you want.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 23, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> There is nothing racist about saying that blacks could solve their own problems with poverty (of the 25% in poverty) by waiting for babies and finishing school. What’s racist would be to say we have to give blacks money because they are incapable of getting out of poverty on their own.
> 
> This pattern of libs screeching “raaaaacist” at people pointing out the obvious - study after study shows delaying childbearing and completing school is the key to moving out of poverty - is promoting a sense of victimhood among poor blacks instead of empowerment. Plus, it’s just the nasty libs way of cutting off a debate.


What you say is racist because its a false stereotype that doesn't apply.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 23, 2022)

bripat9643 said:


> Let's see.  Prog assholes like you call us "racist," "sexist," "traitors," "Nazis", "stupid,"  "bigots,"  "white losers who failed in life ," "white supremacists,"  yada, yada, yada.
> 
> Stick it where the sun don't shine, asshole.
> 
> Live by the sword.  Die by the sword.


You get called what you call others.

Loser.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 23, 2022)

bripat9643 said:


> Of course they did.  White liberals told you everything in your post.


Wrong. But you're delusional.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 23, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Your ancestors had a choice on whether to come here.
> 
> Blacks did not.
> 
> ...


Lisa is mentally retarded. She whines about affirmative action even though she's part of the demographic who benefitted from it the most.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 24, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Joe, the country gave Ali segregation and racism. That's why he refused to fight.



Actually, it made him a very rich man for beating up other black men.   Except, of course, that in the course of that, he so messed up his brain he had issues later in life. 

There was nothing noble about what he did.


----------



## gipper (Apr 24, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Lisa is mentally retarded. She whines about affirmative action even though she's part of the demographic who benefitted from it the most.


Whites benefited from AA. Do tell?


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 24, 2022)

gipper said:


> Whites benefited from AA. Do tell?


They always say that, but it isn’t true. The white woman who were passed over for promotions given to a less qualified black woman could attest to that. Myself included.

It‘s time for blacks in poverty to take accountability for their own choices, and for hiring, promotion, college admissions, etc., to be based on merit only.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 24, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> They always say that, but it isn’t true. The white woman who were passed over for promotions given to a less qualified black woman could attest to that. Myself included.
> 
> It‘s time for blacks in poverty to take accountability for their own choices, and for hiring, promotion, college admissions, etc., to be based on merit only.



I've seen white women promoted to positions they didn't deserve.  Sometimes because of Affirmative Action.  Sometimes because they were blowing the boss. 

I've seen people of color promoted to positions they didn't deserve. 

I've seen relatives of the boss promoted to positions they didn't deserve. 

Merit isn't going to ever be the sole factor, and frankly, merit is subjective.  

You might have someone with great technical skills, and poor people skills.  

So you have two kids. 

One is a black kid who went to an impoverished inner-city school, who worked hard, got good grades and scored a 1400 on his SAT. 

You got a white kid, who went to a fancy private school, had the benefit of tutors, and got a 1500 on his SAT.  

Which one do you think actually worked harder?


----------



## bripat9643 (Apr 24, 2022)

IM2 said:


> It was shorter than both groups have discriminated against us.


What is it that progs sasy whenever you point out some injustice committed against Republicans/white people?

Now I remember: "You po witto baby!"  Quit your crying an suck it up.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 24, 2022)

bripat9643 said:


> What is it that progs sasy whenever you point out some injustice committed against Republicans/white people?
> 
> Now I remember: "You po witto baby!"  Quit your crying an suck it up.


You know that other saying, too: “If progs didn’t have double standards, they’d have no standards at all.”


----------



## bripat9643 (Apr 24, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Jews are a religion. Blacks were murdered and white jews like you practiced racism against blacks.


6  million Jews were massacre during the Holocaust, asshole.


----------



## Tampa_Bay (Apr 24, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The reason for poverty among blacks who remain poor (most are working class or above) is the same reason that whites in poverty remain poor. It is due to having babies while still in one’s teens, without a husband, and often without completing high school as a result.
> 
> Anyone can break free of poverty by doing the following, at a minimum:
> 
> ...


Amen


----------



## bripat9643 (Apr 24, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Joe, the country gave Ali segregation and racism. That's why he refused to fight.


The poor baby: he only made $10 million a fight.


----------



## bripat9643 (Apr 24, 2022)

IM2 said:


> I'm quite sure my IQ is higher than yours and what I stated was fact.


I'm sure it's not.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 24, 2022)

bripat9643 said:


> 6  million Jews were massacre during the Holocaust, asshole.


I don’t know what the black racist said, since he’s on ignore, but they diminish the horrors of the Holocaust and what befell the Jewish people. It’s their only way to explain how a people who have suffered such horrific antisemitism -and start with nothing - can go on to have their children be so successful. Otherwise, their insistence that poverty is due to racism falls apart.

The other thing they say is that the impoverished Jews in the early 20th century didn’t experience antisemitism directly. To that, I’d say that having your European family - parents, siblings - wiped out, with you never to see or hear from them again, and knowing they were slaughtered for being Jewish Is a horrific loss - and is directly experiencing antisemitism.


----------



## Tampa_Bay (Apr 24, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Jews are a religion. Blacks were murdered and white jews like you practiced racism against blacks.



You are sick


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 24, 2022)

Tampa_Bay said:


> You are sick


I have no idea what the black bigot said, but based on what he said before I put him on ignore, I’d agree - one sick puppy.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 24, 2022)

IM2 said:


> It means working harder. We bust our asses in school. I have degrees. You don't. So don't lecture me about some fucking Asian busting their ass to learn. The ONLY reason you racists try throwing Asians in our face is because you think Asians are soft and they take your shit without fighting back, while we'll take your racist asses to the hoop every time.



Or how about Asians (unlike blacks) learn from their mistakes?  If something goes wrong, they don't blame what the government did to their ancestors, they blame themselves. 

In martial arts you learn more than just self-defense, you learn about the culture of people who brought us this kind of fighting technique.  Yeah, you have degrees, it shows by your posts and intelligence.  Ya gotta love the internet.  It's always the rich leftists who preach about needing higher taxes, and all you blacks who are so successful concerned about the failures of others in your race.   But you???? You're doing fantastic.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 24, 2022)

IM2 said:


> No, it was due to Obamas policies but black poverty was still double that of whites.



It was?  What policies of DumBama are you speaking of?


----------



## bripat9643 (Apr 24, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Wrong. But you're delusional.


I'm not wrong.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 24, 2022)

bripat9643 said:


> 6  million Jews were massacre during the Holocaust, asshole.



That's irrelevant to American blacks.  As far as they're concerned, the worst thing to happen in this world was black slavery and discrimination.  Forget German camp guards burying  Jews and Poles in mass graves while many of them were still alive and only shot once, surgical experimentation of people while they were still alive, the rape and torture of children and anybody who became ill was put to death because they couldn't work any longer.  Forget all that.  The worst thing was people coming from this country to buy slaves in Africa.

These are the same people who conducted nationwide riots because some drug addict died in the custody of a police officer.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 24, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> That's irrelevant to American blacks.  As far as they're concerned, the worst thing to happen in this world was black slavery and discrimination.  Forget German camp guards burying  Jews and Poles in mass graves while many of them were still alive and only shot once, surgical experimentation of people while they were still alive, the rape and torture of children and anybody who became ill was put to death because they couldn't work any longer.  Forget all that.  The worst thing was people coming from this country to buy slaves in Africa.
> 
> These are the same people who conducted nationwide riots because some drug addict died in the custody of a police officer.


The sad thing is that the Holocaust, which took the lives of 6 million Jews for no other reason than they were Jewish, should NOT be irrelevant to American blacks. It should stand as an example as to how a people so brutalized by bigotry could rise above it in ONE generation and become successful.

And again, before the excuse-makers rush in and say it didn’t happen to American Jews, tell it to my father (well, you can’t tell him anything anymore.…RIP) who studied his heart out as a 15-year-old to get top marks so he could get a tuition-free education (his parents were dirt poor) under the weight of knowing Jews were being slaughtered by the millions..….and the letter from his grandmother, and the last letter from his aunt to his mother, and the last letter from his cousins, was six months ago, and they could only assume the worst. (It turned out it was the worst.)

If Jews could rise from that in a single generation, then blacks with Affirmative Action can do it in two.


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 24, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> Yet slavery was common all over the world during the 18th century
> 
> if you dont know that then your education is incomplete


I know it.
You're saying it was OK because others were doing it too.
You do know this is the same argument the GOP uses each and every tine they get caught.
"They did it too"
"They did it first."

Your defense is not just without merit, it is without morals.


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 24, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Nobody is excusing anything.  The way things are going in this country, people in 100 years from now might consider us barbarians because we keep pets in our home instead of allowing them to be in the wild.  It's normal in our environment because a lot of people have pets in their home.
> 
> Do you have any pets in your home?  Well then people in the future might consider you inhumane for doing so.


Yes, I do.
I feed them.
Ensure their safety.
Ensure their health.
and in return they give me affection.

I don't rape them.
I don't boil them alive as a show for the other pets
I don't use a gun and shoot them if they wander off my property.

The future may indeed deem keeping pets immoral but not for the reason you think
With people starving around the world we choose to feed these animals who, really, serve no objective purpose.

But you excuse the former because the latter may be considered in different terms in the future.

When actual factual slavery came to the US it was because the owners of indentured servants saw their investments disappear after a period.
Of course, GREED overcame morality but they couldn't hold White people forever so...
They decided they could do it to the Black people. 
AND, of course
The religious leaders fell right in line ensure the Bible could be interpreted as justifying the crimes.

That you fail to criticize this shows your lack of morality
That you defend it shows how little any moral outlook means to you.


----------



## bripat9643 (Apr 24, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> I know it.
> You're saying it was OK because others were doing it too.
> You do know this is the same argument the GOP uses each and every tine they get caught.
> "They did it too"
> ...


NO.  It shows that your indignation is selective and that you're a gigantic hypocrite.

Your post is just another variation of accusing right wingers of "whataboutism."  It's your way of admitting that you're proud to be a hypocrite.


----------



## bripat9643 (Apr 24, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> Yes, I do.
> I feed them.
> Ensure their safety.
> Ensure their health.
> ...


Plantation owners fed their slaves.


----------



## Mac-7 (Apr 24, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> I know it.
> You're saying it was OK because others were doing it too.
> You do know this is the same argument the GOP uses each and every tine they get caught.
> "They did it too"
> ...


It was not ok by our standards today

but it was at that time


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 24, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> Yes, I do.
> I feed them.
> Ensure their safety.
> Ensure their health.
> ...



I'm not defending anything.  All I'm pointing out is the truth, and that is slavery was pretty normal not only here, but around the world back then.  That's why people didn't think much of it.  

God did sanction slavery back in the day.  People didn't have Jewish lawyers and money to sue.  If you brought harm or shame to a family, you offered yourself as a slave for repayment, or it was ruled by their courts.  God found repaying your debt to somebody favorable.  

As for how slaves were treated, yes, some were treated terribly, just like some people treat their animals terribly today.  When slavery ended they high tailed out of there.  But many were treated like family.  That's why former slaves often stayed with their former slave owners as paid help after slavery was abolished.  Did you ever hear of the term House N?  It's a term used by blacks in a derogatory way to insult other blacks who don't see things their way.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 24, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I don’t know what the black racist said, since he’s on ignore, but they diminish the horrors of the Holocaust and what befell the Jewish people. It’s their only way to explain how a people who have suffered such horrific antisemitism -and start with nothing - can go on to have their children be so successful. Otherwise, their insistence that poverty is due to racism falls apart.



Except Jews aren't a race, they are a religion. 



Lisa558 said:


> The other thing they say is that the impoverished Jews in the early 20th century didn’t experience antisemitism directly. To that, I’d say that having your European family - parents, siblings - wiped out, with you never to see or hear from them again, and knowing they were slaughtered for being Jewish Is a horrific loss - and is directly experiencing antisemitism.



I have a bunch of relatives in Germany who died in WWII.  Doesn't bother me in the least.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 24, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The sad thing is that the Holocaust, which took the lives of 6 million Jews for no other reason than they were Jewish, should NOT be irrelevant to American blacks. It should stand as an example as to how a people so brutalized by bigotry could rise above it in ONE generation and become successful.



Actually, the Holocaust took the lives of 12 million people, including Poles, Slavs, gays, political dissidents, Roma (Gypsies)... meanwhile their Japanese allies were murdering millions of Koreans and Chinese.   

The only reason we keep hearing about the Jews is because they run Hollywood and just won't stop crowing about their film about the Holocaust.  

I think I've seen one film about the Rape of Nanking, and it was mostly about how it ruined the day of compassionate white people.


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 24, 2022)

bripat9643 said:


> NO.  It shows that your indignation is selective and that you're a gigantic hypocrite.
> 
> Your post is just another variation of accusing right wingers of "whataboutism."  It's your way of admitting that you're proud to be a hypocrite.


My indignation IS SELECTIVE.

I am not indignant because someone is LGBTQ+.  But you are.
I'm not indignant because someone is a PoC with a good job and career.  But you are.
I'm not indignant when some bad cop is indicted and convicted for a racist murder.  But you are.

But, harm the innocent?  I am indignant. But You're not
Lie and steal to get power?  I am indignant. But you're not.
Try to overthrow the government because you lost and election?  I am indignant.  but you're not.

You see what happens when you make it personal my little cheeto sucking moron?
I stand for right.
You stand for whatever butthurt of the day about which you're told needs whining.

And, in the end,
I fell good aboiut me.  How does your racism, misogeny, and dishonesty make you feel about you?


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 24, 2022)

bripat9643 said:


> Plantation owners fed their slaves.


And?

when they ran away did the call their name or call the Patrol?
Did they look for them at the pound and post flyers or did they get the torches, tracking dogs and shotguns?

Your attempt ad equivocation only makes your argument worse.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 24, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> My indignation IS SELECTIVE.
> 
> I am not indignant because someone is LGBTQ+.  But you are.
> I'm not indignant because someone is a PoC with a good job and career.  But you are.
> ...


If you stand for right, you would not berate a Jew for calling Farrakhan out on his antisemitism, as you just did, and insisting she hates him because he’s black, and not because he is a disgusting antisemite who calls Jews termites.

(My G-d, where do these arrogant progs even come from?)


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 24, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> It was not ok by our standards today
> 
> but it was at that time


If it was OK at the time...
Why was there a war to end it?
Why did 650k Americans die in this war if it was OK.

Just because the majority says it's legal doesn't make it moral or OK.
To justify it in those terms is immoral.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 24, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> If it was OK at the time...
> Why was there a war to end it?
> Why did 650k Americans die in this war if it was OK.
> 
> ...


Wherever. It has nothing to do with the 25% poverty rate among blacks. And you people trying to get them to feel like oppressed victims of whitey are doing them more harm! All they need to do to get out of poverty is to not have babies OOW, and finish school.

Why in the world do you insist on making them feel like victims? if Jews and Asians could move from poverty to the middle class in one generation, despite all the prejudice, then blacks can do it in two, and WITH the benefit of Affirmative Action.


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 24, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I'm not defending anything.  All I'm pointing out is the truth, and that is slavery was pretty normal not only here, but around the world back then.  That's why people didn't think much of it.
> 
> God did sanction slavery back in the day.  People didn't have Jewish lawyers and money to sue.  If you brought harm or shame to a family, you offered yourself as a slave for repayment, or it was ruled by their courts.  God found repaying your debt to somebody favorable.
> 
> As for how slaves were treated, yes, some were treated terribly, just like some people treat their animals terribly today.  When slavery ended they high tailed out of there.  But many were treated like family.  That's why former slaves often stayed with their former slave owners as paid help after slavery was abolished.  Did you ever hear of the term House N?  It's a term used by blacks in a derogatory way to insult other blacks who don't see things their way.


The truth is that you pointing to it and saying "see?  It was ok then so it's OK now."
AND
That attitude is sick.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 24, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> The truth is that you pointing to it and saying "see?  It was ok then so it's OK now."
> AND
> That attitude is sick.


He never said slavery is OK now.

(When the Progs start lying about what their opponent says, you know they have no way to respond and they’re flailing. I see it done all the time here, and it’s getting more and more blatant.)


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 24, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> The truth is that you pointing to it and saying "see?  It was ok then so it's OK now."
> AND
> That attitude is sick.



When did I say it was okay then?  What I said is that it was acceptable to the people of that time.  

They used to have public hangings for a man simply stealing a horse.  We don't use horses for travel any longer, but we can't have a public hanging for stealing a car.  It's simply not acceptable today but was back then.  Did you ever see the classic movie Cool Hand Luke?  That's what prisons used to be like.  Again, acceptable back then, but not acceptable today.


----------



## Mac-7 (Apr 24, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> If it was OK at the time...
> Why was there a war to end it?
> Why did 650k Americans die in this war if it was OK.


I would compare changing or evolving standards in smoking

Today society looks down on tobacco smoking

As late as the 1950’s a doctor or anyone else could light up a cigarette in a hospital and still remain a respected member of society

but not now

standards of acceptability change


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 24, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> I would compare changing or evolving standards in smoking
> 
> Today society looks down on tobacco smoking
> 
> ...



Also I remember smoking in your hospital room.  You hospital room came with a urinal, bed pan, and an ashtray.


----------



## Mac-7 (Apr 24, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Also I remember smoking in your hospital room.  You hospital room came with a urinal, bed pan, and an ashtray.


So to Dadoalex I would say even in 1950 there was small but growing opposition to cigarette use

and over time the culture changed 

Yet for instance who in their right mind hates George Burns today because he was a smoker?


----------



## Mac-7 (Apr 24, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, the Holocaust took the lives of 12 million people, including Poles, Slavs, gays, political dissidents, Roma (Gypsies)... meanwhile their Japanese allies were murdering millions of Koreans and Chinese.
> 
> The only reason we keep hearing about the Jews is because they run Hollywood and just won't stop crowing about their film about the Holocaust.
> 
> *I think I've seen one film about the Rape of Nanking, and it was mostly about how it ruined the day of compassionate white people.*


Thats just hollywood

Chinese films are very interested in Japanese war crimes


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 24, 2022)

JoeB131
*Paul, I can appreciate that you've probably suffered some serious racism in your life, and I can see why you are a bitter guy. *

Spare me your cheap amateur psychology.

Any other social issue, the issue itself gets discussed.  Imagine how absurd it would be if you said "_We need to find ways to address child abuse_" and I responded with “_I can see why you are a bitter guy.”_

JoeB131
*You need to direct that energy in a more positive area.*

Well one of the ways black ppl have copied historically is through positive thinking and stuffing their experiences.

Believe or not but blk people like me and IM2 are not the norm.

Most blk ppl are actually reluctant to allege racism, be it on the job, or in schools, or anywhere else.

Most black people spend a lot of their lives trying to make white ppl comfortable and talking about racism - white supremacy doesn't make whites comfortable and considering that most black ppl in the USA are dependent on whites for jobs, housing then a lot of black people simply _“stuff”_ their experiences with racism, only making an allegation after many, many incidents.

White denial has long trumped claims of racism. And any _"area"_ you point out will be dominated by racism - white supremacy.

*That's why the relationship between whites and black is tacky*

You put 50 whiteS and 50 blacks in a room and watch how they interact ?....It will be tacky ....*TO THE MAX*

JoeB131
*Immigration helps ALL Americans, because right now, we are in a demographic death spiral. Too many people getting old, not enough new babies to replace them. They only way we get to equilibrium is bringing more people in*.

As long as the people they bring in are vast majority white and non black - Right ? They ain't gonna be shipping in thousands and thousands of people from Nigeria and Jamaica.

Also whites are the ones that are shook about their low birth rates. This is why they encourage blacks to have less children so they can keep up.

Say what you want but Black men are not about to put their peen on strike.

JoeB131
*And I will say the same thing to you that I say to any white bigot like Ray or Flash whining about immigrants. *

Maybe but white supremacists like to play both sides.

JoeB131
*If you have failed so hard that someone with no money, no connections and a limited grasp on the English language is beating you*

What are you talking about ? Who is beating me ?

JoeB131
*Uh, no, he gave up his sport because he didn't want to serve a country that had given him so much. *





Was he lying then ?

JoeB131
*Avoiding military service doesn't get you a lot of points with me, but maybe because I am a third generation veteran.*

When the white supremacists were over there in 1800's killing the people in the Phillipines, almost committing genocide. A black American man named David Fagan and other blk men defected because they didn't wanna see the filippinos get slaughtered. So he and a few other blk men started a guerilla war against the USA army






He went over there training the Asians so they wouldn't be sitting ducks for the white supremacists.

JoeB131
*At the end of the day, drugs are only a problem because people take them. Now, I think we need to refocus the war on drugs away from punishment and towards treatment. *

I agree but you are going to run into white supremacy and white privilege even within the drugs

Meth and heroin are drugs that black people rarely use or sell today. Most of the users and sellers are white or non black.

Waco has been a hotbed for crystal meth use. So what do the white supremacists do ? Change possession of meth from felony to misdemeanor.

All over the USA white people are drugged out on meth like this





















These white folks got K&A looking like skid row.

But the system of white supremacy gives them gives them clean needles and a program to pick up the needles those trifling cave beasts discard on the ground.

Plus they beg 24/7 with their dusty ass signs in the street and subway. You see when it’s a white problem it isn’t a problem. They don’t want the little white Timmys of the world to hit that cell





They have a system to go easy on them like Clinton in this opiod crisis. They have Methodone Clinics to help them manage their addiction.






Wonder if he's ever spoken on the CIA's trade of Cocaine 4 Weapons in Nicaragua '90's ? Or Nixon's overt racist drug war that he co-opted ?

They go so soft on white drug users that Miami police say they’ll offer opioid addicts rehab instead of arresting them






Look at the story of the dead opiod addict last year (Maddie Linsenmeir). You would think she was getting to be buried in Arlington with all this press around her death.






They’re making martyrs out of white drug users when we steady getting killed. Drugs don't stick with black folk. Heroin ended in the 60s. Coke the 70s. Crack the 80s. The only thing left is weed. But when Black folks put that down watch "them" make Newport illegal to smoke.

This is why black people fight against racism.

JoeB131
*But you can't really blame anyone for created a supply when you are the ones created the demand.*

Black ppl have not created any demand as though blk ppl are more likely than whites to report having been offered drugs in the past month, we are less likely to actually use drugs than whites.

Black people are also less likely to drink and smoke than whites. Despite targeted liquor and tobacco advertising in poor black communities.

I found this article on Alternet.com. It’s an interview done with a former police officer who was part of the War on Drugs. Now, he says he regrets it, because it caused way more harm than good. He also explains the real reason police don’t arrest whites who use drugs:

The legal system has built in protection for the whites called the Plea Bargain. If you can afford legal counsel that will not roll over then in many cases your potential felony case gets commuted to a misdemeanor.

So most stats are skewed on multiple levels due to systemic advantages. Prior to arrest, post arrest and jurisprudence itself is disproportionally meted out.

The DEA’s 2.3 billion dollar budget spent on the _“war on drugs”_ nets these results. The DEA targets black areas resulting in disproportionate arrest rates. Then you have the politically connected prison unions who never saw an incarceration it didn’t like.

End of the day most of the distributors of these drugs are white. The black dealers work for organized crime moving the product around the neighbourhoods. In order to sell these drugs, you have to have a distributor. There may be a few black distributors, but they few and far between. They are working for the higher up organized white crime.

JoeB131
*I hate to break this to you, but EVERYONE'S value is conditional.*

No it's not. White life is unconditional in a system of white supremacy

When Justine Damond (_A white woman_) ran up on a blk cop (_Mohammad Noor_) who was sitting in his car in a dark alley and banging on his car door. The cop can't see, shoots and kills her and gets 12 1//2 years.

When a white women get's killed. We get






Translation: She's relatively young. She's white. She's blond and find her attractive.

If that was a Black woman that pounded on the trunk of a police car in a dark alley, knowing they were investigating a violent crime, they would have called her ghetto, and said she deserved what she got. If she was black we'd know her whole criminal history along with a mugshot but there's none of that cause she's was a white woman.

And her family was awarded a record pay






They never made her (_The_ _Damond Family_) fight for the €18.19 million. They just announced it the day after he (_Mohammad Noor_) was convicted. Her family didn't have to sue or settle for it. It was just given away.

When the families are black they have to sue, incur cost, take them through the entire legal process before they settle right before the trial years later. The central park 5 from 20 years ago are STILL fighting to get paid and she got paid out IMMEDIATELY.

When was the last time a white person felt the need to stand up and apologize for a crime committed by another white person?

Better yet, when was the last timea white person felt the need to do this for fear that if they didn’t, their community would come to be viewed as violent and dangerous ?

Whites can screw up on the job, run entire corporations into the ground, rip off the Savings and Loans to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars, cut corners on occupational safety and health in the workplace, or scam millions from employee pension funds, without any white person worrying that it'll reflect badly on them

Why ? Because in a system of racism  white supremacy white life is unconditional

JoeB131
*Now, frankly, most of the black folks I've worked with are damned hard workers. *

Well they better be because in a system of racism - white supremacy. Black people are always the last hired and first fired.

JoeB131
*But it's always that one guy who comes into work with an attitude that make everyone else look bad*.

Well he is not here to defend himself. I don't know what you did or said for this to happen as he is not her to defend himself.

But would you have said about about a bad white worker ? No because you see white people as individuals.

Lisa558
*I agree, there needs to be more opportunities.. I've been arguing with Lisa558 for months about her whining about college admissions.*

Lisa558 is a teacher

I just hope she's not from Florida because they just passed a law to arm teachers and these guns are not meant for white kids.

These black kids in kindergarten, junior high, high school are on the list. These white supremacist teachers will shoot and kill you with no problems. And nothing will get done about it as usual.






People like Lisa558 she's the REAL WHITE SUPREMACIST I worry about. All these KKK, Aryan Nation, Proud Boys type. I'm not bothered about them. We have dealt with them in the past.

In fact I prefer them.

But ppl like Lisa558 are the ones who hide in plain sight and slip under the radar ? These are the white supremacist who are fkin up black kids

I had plenty of teachers like Lisa558 and she was the type that would punish the blk kids more harshly than the white kids for minor sh*t even if the blk kids committed minor sh*t no more frequently than the white kids.

She is the type of teacher I grew up with who'd track the blk kids into basic and remedial level classes but track the white kids into advanced and honors classes, even if the whites showed no more promise and sometimes often a bit less than the black kids.

JoeB131
*But sometimes you have to go with the hand you are dealt. I didn't get into the college I wanted to get into. I also had to deal with both of my parents suffering terminal illnesses while I was in college. I worked two minimum wage jobs and joined the National Guard to pay for college.*

I'm fully aware that not every white person or non black person has a charmed life. They can be born with the misfortune of having abusive, irresponsible, drug-addicted parents. They can be like you and have to through seeing their parents suffer terminal illness

However those difficulties in life are not due to social constructs engineered by black people.

And by the way education is white supremacist and anti black. Health care is white supremacist and anti black. Employment is white supremacist and anti black

JoeB131
*Of course, when I was in the guard, I saw a lot of guys who joined the guard for that same scholarship money. Some of them couldn't master basic problems like math or simple grammar. Or knew basic facts of history like when WWI was fought. So they often failed in their first year and then stopped showing up for drills.*

And what's your point ?


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 24, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> If you stand for right, you would not berate a Jew for calling Farrakhan out on his antisemitism, as you just did, and insisting she hates him because he’s black, and not because he is a disgusting antisemite who calls Jews termites.
> 
> (My G-d, where do these arrogant progs even come from?)



Or maybe we all get tired of you guys screaming "Buuuuuttttt Hitler" every time you run into even mild criticism. 



Lisa558 said:


> Wherever. It has nothing to do with the 25% poverty rate among blacks. And you people trying to get them to feel like oppressed victims of whitey are doing them more harm! All they need to do to get out of poverty is to not have babies OOW, and finish school.
> 
> Why in the world do you insist on making them feel like victims? if Jews and Asians could move from poverty to the middle class in one generation, despite all the prejudice, then blacks can do it in two, and WITH the benefit of Affirmative Action.



again, if they do everything you say, you'd still block their way into college for a white kid who got a higher score.   




Lisa558 said:


> He never said slavery is OK now.
> 
> (When the Progs start lying about what their opponent says, you know they have no way to respond and they’re flailing. I see it done all the time here, and it’s getting more and more blatant.)



Uh-huh... says the crazy woman who thinks posters in a mall are a conspiracy for white extinction.


----------



## Mac-7 (Apr 24, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> They’re making martyrs out of white drug users when we steady getting killed.


Who are “they?”

you must mean the liberal media because conservatives are not making excuses for drug abuse


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 24, 2022)

Dude, I was trying to be patient with you, but the stream of crazy is a bit to deal with.  



Paul Essien said:


> Spare me your cheap amateur psychology.
> 
> Any other social issue, the issue itself gets discussed. Imagine how absurd it would be if you said "_We need to find ways to address child abuse_" and I responded with “_I can see why you are a bitter guy.”_



You're not a child, you're a grown-ass man.  Sure, you've gotten a raw deal.  Sure, you are not going to get the breaks I've gotten.  Life isn't fair, and you can't go about whining about it.  Complaining doesn't create solutions.  Nobody is going to send the racists off to Tolerance Camp.  



Paul Essien said:


> Well one of the ways black ppl have copied historically is through positive thinking and stuffing their experiences.
> 
> Believe or not but blk people like me and @IM2 are not the norm.
> 
> Most blk ppl are actually reluctant to allege racism, be it on the job, or in schools, or anywhere else.


And that's probably a good strategy.  

Maybe your racist boss gets a talking to from HR, but you get a rep as a troublemaker.   At the end of the day, they value him more than you.  Is it fair?  Absolutely not. 

You see, right now, there is an unprecedented opportunity.  With the "Great Resignation", there are ample opportunities to get better jobs.  



Paul Essien said:


> Most black people spend a lot of their lives trying to make white ppl comfortable and talking about racism - white supremacy doesn't make whites comfortable and considering that most black ppl in the USA are dependent on whites for jobs, housing then a lot of black people simply _“stuff”_ their experiences with racism, only making an allegation after many, many incidents.
> 
> White denial has long trumped claims of racism. And any _"area"_ you point out will be dominated by racism - white supremacy.



Yes, it is. How is whining about it helping?  Do you really think your racist boss is going to say, "Wow, I've seen the error of my ways.  I pledge to be a nice person from now on." 

Here's the thing.  I've worked for a bunch of bosses in my 30+ post military career.  I would describe a couple of them as total assholes.  Trying to make them NOT be assholes is a waste of energy.  The best strategy is to get away from them.  



Paul Essien said:


> As long as the people they bring in are vast majority white and non black - Right ? They ain't gonna be shipping in thousands and thousands of people from Nigeria and Jamaica.



Here's the thing.  I've known Jamaican immigrants who have more contempt for native born blacks than Lisa and Ray do, if that's possible.  They come here, they want to work. 



Paul Essien said:


> Maybe but white supremacists like to play both sides.



Actually, you do a better job of making Lisa's case than she does..  



Paul Essien said:


> Was he lying then ?



Nope, he was just a guy 



Paul Essien said:


> When the white supremacists were over there in 1800's killing the people in the Phillipines, almost committing genocide. A black American man named David Fagan and other blk men defected because they didn't wanna see the filippinos get slaughtered. So he and a few other blk men started a guerilla war against the USA army


First, the war in the Philippines was fought in 1900-1903.. 
Second, if that happened, that was kind of stupid.  If the US hadn't taken the Philippines at that point, Germany or Japan would have, and those boys don't play.  Much as I love the Filipino people, they should be happy they got America instead of some really nasty characters.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 24, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> Who are “they?”
> 
> you must mean the liberal media because conservatives are not making excuses for drug abuse


Whites like you.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 24, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> When Justine Damond (_A white woman_) ran up on a blk cop (_Mohammad Noor_) who was sitting in his car in a dark alley and banging on his car door. The cop can't see, shoots and kills her and gets 12 1//2 years.





Paul Essien said:


> They never made her (_The_ _Damond Family_) fight for the €18.19 million. They just announced it the day after he (_Mohammad Noor_) was convicted. Her family didn't have to sue or settle for it. It was just given away.
> 
> When the families are black they have to sue, incur cost, take them through the entire legal process before they settle right before the trial years later. The central park 5 from 20 years ago are STILL fighting to get paid and she got paid out IMMEDIATELY.



I'm not sure why you are listing the settlement in Euros instead of US Dollars, it makes me think you might be a Russian Troll trying to stir up trouble. 

But let's look at that. 

Ms. Damond had no criminal record. She was actually doing the good citizen thing trying to alert a police officer to a problem.  Because that officer never should have been made a peace officer, he panicked and shot her.  Officer Noor had been fast tracked through the system, and a police psychologist had raised questions about his fitness two months before the shooting.

And her family got $20MM.  Floyd's family got $29MM.  

MEANWHILE-

George Floyd had an EXTENSIVE criminal record.  He was in the process of committed several crimes when he was being arrested.  What Chauvin did was completely out of line and he got more time than Noor did and the settlement was bigger.   I'm not sure what your complaint is here.   That the white person who never did anything wrong didn't have to fight as hard to get justice than the black guy who instigated the incident he was killed in? 

Both officers were in the wrong. Both were punished, both families got compensation.



Paul Essien said:


> @Lisa558 is a teacher
> 
> I just hope she's not from Florida because they just passed a law to arm teachers and these guns are not meant for white kids.
> 
> These black kids in kindergarten, junior high, high school are on the list. These white supremacist teachers will shoot and kill you with no problems. And nothing will get done about it as usual.



From what I understand, Lisa is a retired college administrator, not a teacher. 

Frankly, I think arming teachers is a pretty dumb idea.  but it makes the wingnuts feel better about themselves, especially the gun fetishists. 




Paul Essien said:


> Look at the story of the dead opiod addict last year (Maddie Linsenmeir). You would think she was getting to be buried in Arlington with all this press around her death.



Did you miss the near canonization of Geo. Floyd after he died?  I don't recall every network demanding nine minutes of silence for Ms. Linsenmeir. or people painting murals of her with angel wings. 

Um, okay, had to look this one up.  Because frankly, I haven't heard of this case that you seem to think was a national story.  She was arrested for a probation violation, and then allowed to die in a prison cell after complaining about chest pains for hours...  These cops were out of line, and I expect some big settlements here, too.




Paul Essien said:


> They’re making martyrs out of white drug users when we steady getting killed. Drugs don't stick with black folk. Heroin ended in the 60s. Coke the 70s. Crack the 80s. The only thing left is weed. But when Black folks put that down watch "them" make Newport illegal to smoke.



I've called Ray and others about the disparity on how the war on drugs treats whites vs. blacks... BUT YOU WOULDN'T HAVE THIS PROBLEM IF YOU DIDN'T TAKE THE DRUGS FROM THE GET!  We could also talk about all the "gangsta rap" songs that glorify drug dealing...  That's a good market, given how many rap stars are murdered or overdose, it's a perpetual help wanted sign.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 24, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, it made him a very rich man for beating up other black men.   Except, of course, that in the course of that, he so messed up his brain he had issues later in life.
> 
> There was nothing noble about what he did.


I can respect Ali for his stance and because he was willing to face the consequences of his actions.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 24, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Dude, I was trying to be patient with you, but the stream of crazy is a bit to deal with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually Joe, Paul is not crazy. Paul is 99 percent right.  Talking about how life is not fair allows you to  dismiss public policy that purposefully negatively impacts black communities that whites do not face. Paul is not whining and its time whites stopped referring to it as that. There are black sellouts everywhere but the majority of Jamaican immigrants do not show the contempt you claim. I know immigrants from the islands and Africans and the few you guys use to make your point is disingenuous. You need to understand one thing, black immigrants come to this country on H1B Visas and are given jobs in companies that deny American blacks jobs. Then these sellouts post rants about what black Americans aren't doing and people like yoou and othrs use their bullshit to deny the truth of this country. If not for H1B those Africans would not have jobs. Last, most Africans who come here are not your poor African citizen, they come from the upper classes of African wealth.

I knew an African student who got pissed off at the way he was treated in a club. He called daddy and daddy sent him the money to buy a building and start his own club so he could drink in peace. Most Black Americans can't do that. So I  really think its time to listen to what black Americans are saying instead of calling people crazy based on your experience being white.

You talk about unprecedented opportunity, but we also see an unprecedented increase in extremism and a white backlash against diversity. Blacks see this, many whites choose to ignore it. Until you have lived with racism on a daily basis you don't understand how it can wear you down. Do not try lecturing me from your perspective of never living with it. I understand what you're trying to do and I know that you are not racist, but you also are not black and until you become black you really cannot dismiss things that Paul says based on what he has experienced. There is no comparing him to Lisa, we are the result of treatment by people like Lisa and many other whites like them. We have the right to be angry and we have the right to be bitter as we see people with less talent than we have consistently get more chances, and less penalties for wrong doing, etc.,  because of their skin color.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 24, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> George Floyd had an EXTENSIVE criminal record. He was in the process of committed several crimes when he was being arrested.


This is not quite true Joe.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 24, 2022)

People want to talk about facing consequences. Blacks here are talking about at least 246 years of continuing racism since America decided it's Independence and 403 years from the beginning of colonization. None of you seem willing to face the consequences of such actions.


----------



## bripat9643 (Apr 24, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> My indignation IS SELECTIVE.
> 
> I am not indignant because someone is LGBTQ+.  But you are.
> I'm not indignant because someone is a PoC with a good job and career.  But you are.
> ...


That's a load of horseshit.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 24, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Actually Joe, Paul is not crazy. Paul is 99 percent right.  Talking about how life is not fair allows you to  dismiss public policy that purposefully negatively impacts black communities that whites do not face. Paul is not whining and its time whites stopped referring to it as that. There are black sellouts everywhere but the majority of Jamaican immigrants do not show the contempt you claim. I know immigrants from the islands and Africans and the few you guys use to make your point is disingenuous. You need to understand one thing, black immigrants come to this country on H1B Visas and are given jobs in companies that deny American blacks jobs. Then these sellouts post rants about what black Americans aren't doing and people like yoou and othrs use their bullshit to deny the truth of this country. If not for H1B those Africans would not have jobs. Last, most Africans who come here are not your poor African citizen, they come from the upper classes of African wealth.
> 
> I knew an African student who got pissed off at the way he was treated in a club. He called daddy and daddy sent him the money to buy a building and start his own club so he could drink in peace. Most Black Americans can't do that. So I  really think its time to listen to what black Americans are saying instead of calling people crazy based on your experience being white.
> 
> You talk about unprecedented opportunity, but we also see an unprecedented increase in extremism and a white backlash against diversity. Blacks see this, many whites choose to ignore it. Until you have lived with racism on a daily basis you don't understand how it can wear you down. Do not try lecturing me from your perspective of never living with it. I understand what you're trying to do and I know that you are not racist, but you also are not black and until you become black you really cannot dismiss things that Paul says based on what he has experienced. There is no comparing him to Lisa, we are the result of treatment by people like Lisa and many other whites like them. We have the right to be angry and we have the right to be bitter as we see people with less talent than we have consistently get more chances, and less penalties for wrong doing, etc.,  because of their skin color.


Maybe ONE average Black person can't rent or buy a building and start their own club, but a hundred, or five hundred can pool their resources and do so.  How do you think most immigrant businesses got started?  Families or groups pooled their money.  Ever hear of a Co-Op?  I'm not talking about homeowner's boards.  They get started because either the local store is robbing its customers blind, or because there is no local store.  So average people pool their money and start their own store, or agricultural organization. If you don't like how banks are treating black people, get a thousand black people to pool whatever spare money they have and open your own bank that caters only to black people.  What is the old saying from the sixties?  "If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem".  You claim to be a successful black man with organizational experience, take charge and use it to better your neighbors, don't spend all your time here scolding us about what some of our ancestors did to some of your ancestors, and what horrible people we are as a result.


----------



## Mac-7 (Apr 24, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Whites like you.


Do you have a quote to back that up?


----------



## mga138 (Apr 24, 2022)

IM2 said:


> People want to talk about facing consequences. Blacks here are talking about at least 246 years of continuing racism since America decided it's Independence and 403 years from the beginning of colonization. None of you seem willing to face the consequences of such actions.



You are still claiming that black failure is due to "Racism," LOL? First off, there are no more privileged people in the country, and secondly, how do you explain the fact that black failure is even more prevalent in areas of the country where blacks are the majority


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 24, 2022)

1) First, contrary to what the bigot upthread said, when Jews are criticized for whatever, NONE say “but Hitler…..” Get real! 

2) I never said I was a teacher. I said I worked in an admissions-related capacity. 

3) Enough with all these photos of slavery and lynching. We KNOW
it was horrific. This is now the 21st century, and blacks have been getting favored treatment for four decades. If 25% of them are still in poverty, that’s their own doing. After all, 75% are not!

4) To the leftist bigot who said I would “block” a black kid from getting into a college in order to admit the white with higher scores and grades, that’s not “blocking.” OMG! Do you racists even hear yourselves?  That’s admitting the better student. What IS blocking is what the racist libs are doing: blocking the white kid with better grades and scores to let in a black kid with worse. It is YOU leftists doing the blocking - but as long as the racism hurts only whites, you’re fine with it.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 24, 2022)

mga138 said:


> You are still claiming that black failure is due to "Racism," LOL? First off, there are no more privileged people in the country, and secondly, how do you explain the fact that black failure is even more prevalent in areas of the country where blacks are the majority


…..or. how would they explain that 75% of black families are NOT living in poverty? Does racism only exist for a minority of blacks? where I live, they own nice homes, shop at Prada, and have dinner out at Morton’s. That a subclass of blacks didn’t take advantage of the opportunities given them is not whitey’s fault.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 24, 2022)

IM2 said:


> This is not quite true Joe.



He passed a counterfeit bill.
He took a controlled substance
He resisted arrest

NONE of this excuse what Chauvin did, but Floyd wasn't a saint.








Lisa558 said:


> 1) First, contrary to what the bigot upthread said, when Jews are criticized for whatever, NONE say “but Hitler…..” Get real!



You spent half of this thread whining about how your distant relatives were killed in the Holocaust.  You can't talk about the Zionist/Palestinian conflict without old Dolfie being brought up. 



Lisa558 said:


> 3) Enough with all these photos of slavery and lynching. We KNOW
> it was horrific. This is now the 21st century, and blacks have been getting favored treatment for four decades. If 25% of them are still in poverty, that’s their own doing. After all, 75% are not!



Except it's not being favored, is it?



Lisa558 said:


> 4) To the leftist bigot who said I would “block” a black kid from getting into a college in order to admit the white with higher scores and grades, that’s not “blocking.” OMG! Do you racists even hear yourselves? That’s admitting the better student. What IS blocking is what the racist libs are doing: blocking the white kid with better grades and scores to let in a black kid with worse. It is YOU leftists doing the blocking - but as long as the racism hurts only whites, you’re fine with it.



But who is the "Better student".

The black kid who does EVERYTHING you demanded of him... He got good grades, despite going to an underfunded school with outdated textbooks and disinterested teachers, she didn't get pregnant and she completed the course.

Or the White kid who had a superior private school education, access to a tutor, good health care to avoid pregnancies,

It strikes me that you should consider MORE than just a score on a test.


----------



## Indeependent (Apr 24, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> He passed a counterfeit bill.
> He took a controlled substance
> He resisted arrest
> 
> ...


*Or the White kid who had a superior private school education, access to a tutor, good health care to avoid pregnancies,*

After 50 years, why aren't Black kids growing up the same way?
In fact, there are many that do and don't have to shoot anyone at a family get together.
You are stuck in the past.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 24, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> …..or. how would they explain that 75% of black families are NOT living in poverty? Does racism only exist for a minority of blacks? where I live, they own nice homes, shop at Prada, and have dinner out at Morton’s. That a subclass of blacks didn’t take advantage of the opportunities given them is not whitey’s fault.



Let's flip the script... 

How many of those 75% still get pulled over by the cops for pretextual stops.   How many of them STILL feel the need to have "the talk" with their kids on how not to get shot by the police?  How many of them will still be rudely treated by white store owners?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 24, 2022)

IM2 said:


> People want to talk about facing consequences. Blacks here are talking about at least 246 years of continuing racism since America decided it's Independence and 403 years from the beginning of colonization. None of you seem willing to face the consequences of such actions.



So we should face the consequences because of people we never known or met?


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 24, 2022)

JoeB131
*Dude, I was trying to be patient with you, but the stream of crazy is a bit to deal with.*

OK

JoeB131
*Ms. Damond had no criminal record.







*

That's what we got told.

But whites media often tends stall on releasing white people in crminal cases name and pic so they can scrub their social media.

He was just trying to get home to his family.

JoeB131
*She was actually doing the good citizen thing trying to alert a police officer to a problem. 



*





We need to take a look at Justine Damonds history. We need to know what prescriptions she took. Acting all erratic while the officer’s have their lives threatened everyday. She should have known to stay in her house until the officers gave her permission to move.

JoeB131
*Because that officer never should have been made a peace officer, he panicked and shot her. 







*

He clearly feared for his life and she had no business moving towards a police car. These thugs still don’t get it. Moving your hand towards your wallet is enough to be threatening to an officer, why on Earth would this criminal move her whole body towards police in an aggressive manner? She must of been on Meth. Now her family is playing the victim like they always do. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

JoeB131
*Officer Noor had been fast tracked through the system, and a police psychologist had raised questions about his fitness two months before the shooting. 







*

According to our legal system moving in any manner that results in an officer killing you out of fear for their own safety… is a justified homicide. Clearly that is the case here and playing the victim will get you people nowhere in life.

JoeB131
*And her family got $20MM. Floyd's family got $29MM.*

Justine Damond got the money because whites don't have to riot because black killers of whites tend to be arrested, charged, convicted and if they are in a state which allows it, have a better chance of getting the death penalty.

In the George Floyd case for example, they wasn’t even initially arrested.

Were it not for social media and some very vocal folks we wouldn’t even know about it. Black americans had to practically have a civil war and spread that message globally just get you to act like normal himan being

JoeB131
*George Floyd had an EXTENSIVE criminal record. He was in the process of committed several crimes when he was being arrested. *

George Floyd wasn't killed because he had a criminal record. He was killed because he was black and what you doing is part of the white supremacist that is always trying to justify why the blk person deserved to die..

But in America a Black Person has to be a ‘perfect victim. The reason the NAACP used Rosa Parks was her character could not be sh*t on by whites.

Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris slaughtred 23 ppl for no reason and the White Media made all sorts excuses for their behavior and many whites blamed Marilyn Manson, KFDM but not their upper-class two parent families who did not pay attention to these psychopaths or the fact that the Police had reported these guys were bullying their classmates months before the act occured.

Or the Boston bomber of 2013. White man got a front cover of rolling stone.






This white guy killed 3 and injured 250 civillians in the Boston bombing marathon in 2013. Many lost arms and legs and were blinded and wheel chair bound for life but Rolling Stone magazine presented Tsarnaev in a way to how rock stars are shown on magazine covers saying how popular and promising of student he was.

JoeB131
*What Chauvin did was completely out of line and he got more time than Noor did and the settlement was bigger*.

Well let's see who actually serves out the longer sentence and even in prison the system is still protecting Derek Chauvin.





JoeB131
*I'm not sure what your complaint is here. That the white person who never did anything wrong didn't have to fight as hard to get justice than the black guy who instigated the incident he was killed in? Both officers were in the wrong. Both were punished, both families got compensation.*

The difference is black people had to do this to get justice





And big tough talking President Trump, instead of speaking to the nation to bring calm, hid in a bunker when the protests reached the White House fence.

We have to do this and get the whole world behind us to get justice even as far as Paris.


African and Arab descent people have their own police brutality issues in France.

JoeB131
*I've called Ray and others about the disparity on how the war on drugs treats whites vs. blacks... BUT YOU WOULDN'T HAVE THIS PROBLEM IF YOU DIDN'T TAKE THE DRUGS FROM THE GET! *

This is the same argument that white supremacists said 70 years ago

_“You shouldn’t have drunk outta that water fountain if you didn’t want a beating, it doesn’t matter if white people can do whatever they want”_

or

_“You should have known better than to look at a white woman, even though white men can rape black women with impunity”. _

Or it’s like the  _“separate but equal_” schools, _“you should have been smarter even though your textbooks are two decades old and your schools are falling apart”._

The current criminal justice system is absolutely like Jim Crow. Some things are a crime for black people and are not a crime for white people. It’s as simple as that. So for u saying _“just don’t do the drugs”,_

That's kinda like me giving you some painkillers to solve your toothache, Until you deal with the cause of your toothache, not amount of painkillers will truly sort your toothache

See what you are basicaly saying is this

*Black men don’t deserve an equal shot at justice.*

And do you really think if every single black person never took a drug white supremacist would _"Dam you black people, you've figured us out "_

Blackness it'sef has been criminalized. So more laws would be created and situations to criminalize blk ppl.

JoeB131
*We could also talk about all the "gangsta rap" songs that glorify drug dealing. That's a good market, given how many rap stars are murdered or overdose, it's a perpetual help wanted sign.*

Most rappers today don't even rap about thug life and gangsta life. I don't know what hip-hop your listening to. Whites run hip hop anyway and most rap is bought by whites.

If whites wanted folks to buying CDs and downloading music by rap artists who rapped about community uplift then that’s the music that would be churned out in larger numbers.

It's white buyers who make the kind of rap you're complaining about profitable but instead of asking for any responsibility from them, you blame the artists for doing what they’re supposed to do in a capitalist system, which is respond to market demand, no matter the social consequences.

But it's odd how how the Sopranos never get blamed when white folks kill someone ? Or the Saw movie trilogy ? And the endless list of horror-slasher movies.

JoeB131
*You're not a child, you're a grown-ass man. *

And a grown ass man doesn't accept mistreatment and injustice and that's what blk ppl have done and we have done that despite all the drugs, war, molestation, slavery, guns, police brutality, glass ceilings, minstrel shows/ media destruction/ music destruction, prison systems, killings of our boys and girls, poison water/ food supply, Katrina, Haiti thrown at us

Black people are the only group who challenge white supremacy on consistent basis and have done so for centuries. We don't fully bow down it.

And what makes us so amazing is that we're the minority population here but we still go hard body. We are out here on the streets right now.

*We go up against the biggest military power on the planet.*

WE ARE OUT-NUMBERED
WE ARE OUT-GUNNED
WE ARE OUT-FINANCED
But we fking dust ourselves off and challenge the dam beast.........EVERYDAY !! We still out everyday saying "_Hell no.......we ain't gonna bow down to this sh*t_"






No one has that kinda fking courage. No one.

You are baffled at our resilience and cannot come to terms with it. If white were placed in our situation, any of them, they would have died off centuries ago.

You have the police. You need guns, batons, tanks, tasers and immediate militarized back up to square up to one unarmed black man. You don't do that to children






JoeB131
*Sure, you've gotten a raw deal. Sure, you are not going to get the breaks I've gotten. Life isn't fair, and you can't go about whining about it. *

White supremacists like to use this soft language. _"It's not fair"_ and _"whining"_ We deal with genodical white supremacists who run a system of white supremacy

JoeB131
*Complaining doesn't create solutions. Nobody is going to send the racists off to Tolerance Camp.*

Racism grows and feeds off a culture of silence. The point of calling out racism is to break down that silence. It does not matter if you persuade anyone, it does not matter if you “win the argument”. It is very unlikely you will. What matters is that you were heard and planted that seed in people’s minds of, “Hey, maybe this is not right.”

We have always had to force whites act right.

JoeB131
*And that's probably a good strategy. Maybe your racist boss gets a talking to from HR, but you get a rep as a troublemaker. At the end of the day, they value him more than you. Is it fair? Absolutely not.*

So black people should just accept mistreatment and injustice ?


----------



## IM2 (Apr 25, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Maybe ONE average Black person can't rent or buy a building and start their own club, but a hundred, or five hundred can pool their resources and do so.  How do you think most immigrant businesses got started?  Families or groups pooled their money.  Ever hear of a Co-Op?  I'm not talking about homeowner's boards.  They get started because either the local store is robbing its customers blind, or because there is no local store.  So average people pool their money and start their own store, or agricultural organization. If you don't like how banks are treating black people, get a thousand black people to pool whatever spare money they have and open your own bank that caters only to black people.  What is the old saying from the sixties?  "If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem".  You claim to be a successful black man with organizational experience, take charge and use it to better your neighbors, don't spend all your time here scolding us about what some of our ancestors did to some of your ancestors, and what horrible people we are as a result.


Shut the fuck up until you turn black and face what we live with....


----------



## IM2 (Apr 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So we should face the consequences because of people we never known or met?


Ray, you are a fucking racist. Your ass is facing the consequences of YOUR RACISM.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 25, 2022)

mga138 said:


> You are still claiming that black failure is due to "Racism," LOL? First off, there are no more privileged people in the country, and secondly, how do you explain the fact that black failure is even more prevalent in areas of the country where blacks are the majority


I'm saying what the facts have proven. Everything you have said here is a lie.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 25, 2022)

Meathead said:


> White women benefited the most from racial preference? Even for those of you with the lowest of intelligence, how does that make sense? White women are white, right?
> 
> Do you think these AA programs were designed to benefit whites? Staggering stupidity regardless of your minuscule IQ.


Why do you think they added women to the list of protected classes?  

That aside though, affirmative action has nothing in the text of the executive order that gives racial preference to ANY group, let alone black people.  There is also nothing in the text that legalizes discrimination against white people.  That would be unlawful.



> The Executive Order prohibits federal contractors and federally‐assisted construction contractors and subcontractors, who do over $10,000 in Government business in one year from discriminating in employment decisions on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity or national origin
> Executive Order 11246 – Equal Employment Opportunity | U.S. Department of Labor​


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 25, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yeah, that’s also a big lie the left is pushing to keep blacks getting favorable treatment. I know of two cases - both in the federal government, where liberalism and favoritism toward blacks are rampant - where a less qualified black got a promotion that the better qualified white woman was going for. in both cases, the white woman who were discriminated against for not being black sued, and both won. The libs try to get away with this all the time in the government, and you have to fight back!
> 
> In my own case, I went up against a black woman for a promotion and she got it - despite a much worse education and half the experience. The hiring manager told me she was sorry, but she was under a lot of pressure to hire and promote blacks, and offered me a “compensation” prize of another (higher) position. It wasn’t my cup of tea, but I took it - and then found another job where they judgEd on competence and not skin color.


Is that the only time that happened to you?


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 25, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Shut the fuck up until you turn black and face what we live with....


So I give you a positive suggestion and that’s your answer.  Look man I don’t like you and I really don’t respect you, but if you are who and what you claim, you could make a real difference.  If you’d rather badmouth me, that’s fine but it’s never going to change anything.  What I suggested is what successful Black Americans did for a hundred years.  It worked, and it would work today.  All you have to do is work together for all black Americans to succeed.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> How about the topic we are in which is black poverty?  My links point to a very disturbing ratio of black girls getting pregnant in their teen years and black males becoming felons, both of which play a huge party in poverty these days.  I also posted a link that showed 75% of black male children cannot read at state levels in California, and I'm sure it's similar in other states, unless it's something in their drinking water.
> 
> On a personal note I told you about my neighbor next door with the basketball hoop, the complaints I hear on my police scanner, and the fact our schools were once one of the best in the county until blacks moved in, and we've been on academic watch since.
> 
> ...


You were addressing me at the time.  None of that applies to me or my life.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 25, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> He passed a counterfeit bill.
> He took a controlled substance
> He resisted arrest
> 
> ...


Never said he was a saint but none of that warranted his death, therefore the mention of those things are irrelevant to the discussion of his situation. No one is a saint and alcohol and  nicotine are controlled substances that are legal. He may not have known that 20 was counterfeit. Still today nobody knows if that 20 was counterfeit. 

Whites have been on controlled substances, committing crimes, fight with police, take their vehicles and live. This is what Paul was pointing out;, the demonization of black victims of police violence while whites get treated like saints.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 25, 2022)

Then t


JoeB131 said:


> He passed a counterfeit bill.
> He took a controlled substance
> He resisted arrest
> 
> ...


Then take race out of it entirely.  Make Affirmative Action for anyone making less than the poverty level.  Make it economic, not racial.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 25, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> So I give you a positive suggestion and that’s your answer.  Look man I don’t like you and I really don’t respect you, but if you are who and what you claim, you could make a real difference.  If you’d rather badmouth me, that’s fine but it’s never going to change anything.  What I suggested is what successful Black Americans did for a hundred years.  It worked, and it would work today.  All you have to do is work together for all black Americans to succeed.


You did not give me a positive suggestion and I have never liked your racist ass either. So like I said, shut the fuck up until you turn black and live what we go through.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 25, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Then t
> 
> Then take race out of it entirely.  Make Affirmative Action for anyone making less than the poverty level.  Make it economic, not racial.


Whites have been given racial preference since day one. And whites benefit from affirmative action more than anyone else. Just how long are whites like you going to live in denial. What the fuck do you think Jim Crow was? And Jim Crow did not end in 1964, whites are still denying opportunity because of race.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 25, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Never said he was a saint but none of that warranted his death, therefore the mention of those things are irrelevant to the discussion of his situation. No one is a saint and alcohol and  nicotine are controlled substances that are legal. He may not have known that 20 was counterfeit. Still today nobody knows if that 20 was counterfeit.
> 
> Whites have been on controlled substances, committing crimes, fight with police, take their vehicles and live. This is what Paul was pointing out;, the demonization of black victims of police violence while whites get treated like saints.


Whites don’t get treated like saints.  White criminals go to jail.  When white criminals resist arrest they get beaten and shot, but no one makes a big deal about it because we blame them, not the cops.  I’ve been stopped and questioned and ticketed many times.  I make it my business to reduce tensions.  I do exactly what I’m told and make damned sure I don’t raise anyone’s stress levels.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 25, 2022)

IM2 said:


> You did not give me a positive suggestion and I have never liked your racist ass either. So like I said, shut the fuck up until you turn black and live what we go through.


All you have is insults,  you have a sad life.  Go ahead and wallow in your victimhood, it’s no skin off my nose.  I live a fulfilling and happy life.


----------



## monkrules (Apr 25, 2022)

Indeependent said:


> *Or the White kid who had a superior private school education, access to a tutor, good health care to avoid pregnancies,*
> 
> After 50 years, why aren't Black kids growing up the same way?
> In fact, there are many that do and don't have to shoot anyone at a family get together.
> You are stuck in the past.


No matter how positive the content of a conversation, a lot of black losers have to search for something to whine about. 

As you said some choose to live in the past - and, because of that they'll never change, they'll always be losers. 

Sadly, they're not even bright enough to be embarrassed about being losers. No use giving them a second thought.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 25, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> So if her parents were slaves,  even if they were barely born in 1865 and had her at fifteen, she would have been born in 1880.  That would make her over a hundred years old when you met her.  The numbers don’t match up.


Slavery was abolished by the passage of the 13th amendment when it was ratified in December 1865.

My cousin was born July 13th 1888 and died July 30th 1987 at age 99.  Her mother was born in 1855 10 years before the end of slavery and was 33 when her daughter was born.

I met her in 1984 when she visited my parent's home in the months shortly after they had all gathered in Charleston for a family reunion, just 3 years before she passed.

I know it sounds unbelievable and such a long time ago but having met her in person bridges that gap.  She wrote this at the beginning of the book:

"The Middletons were unusual, because many of them came out of slavery with education"​​and on the last page, this regarding the family union in August 1984...

"Eighty people finally came, some from Pennsylvania, where one of the uncles had moved his family years ago, and others from California, Maryland, Massachusetts, New York and Texas.  Like many American families, ours had dispersed itself clear across the continent; only the new activism toward reconnection with the past could make the family discover itself and its home.  Those who came home ranged from 4 years to past sixty.  They spent delightful hours over delicious meals discovering one another attainments. 'Those children chose the theme* "Excellence through Education'*" Grandmother will tell you and and it really does fit.  We were a group of many professions; we had at least four Ph.D.'s; one of our women cousins has a radio program; and we had two lay ministers to lead prayers Friday night.  Now, what do you say about _that?_"​


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 25, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> None of those are earning money, and in the case of the loans they have to be paid back almost always with interest.


Earning money wasn't part of the question, it was about acquiring money in ways other than earning it.

The point is, if the family you're born into isn't poor than you have a higher likelihood of not ending up being poor yourself, because you will learn (hopefully) what is needed in order to escape a descent into poverty.

Starting out with money is always preferable to starting without money and trying to obtain it.  And it's easier.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 25, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Yep, because there are about five times as many of us as you.  The appropriate question is, do whites commit five times more crimes than blacks do?


Whites and Blacks both commit crimes at similar rates, they just are not charged and convicted at the same rate.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 25, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> All you have is insults,  you have a sad life.  Go ahead and wallow in your victimhood, it’s no skin off my nose.  I live a fulfilling and happy life.



You post the garbage you do and don't think it's insulting? Your life ain't shit. You're in here spewing racist bullshit every day. That and crying about Affirmative Action. You wallow in white victimhood because you don't think you're getting everything you believe you're entitled to. Son, my life is great and I have made this place and people like you an example of the problem with this country. I don't know what a victim is besides a made up word used by racist whites to gaslight. And gaslighting is all you have because you don't have the manhood necessary to face the truth.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 25, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Whites don’t get treated like saints.  White criminals go to jail.  When white criminals resist arrest they get beaten and shot, but no one makes a big deal about it because we blame them, not the cops.  I’ve been stopped and questioned and ticketed many times.  I make it my business to reduce tensions.  I do exactly what I’m told and make damned sure I don’t raise anyone’s stress levels.


There have been whites who have beaten cops and lived. There have been blacks who have complied with cops and died. So spare me your opinion because all you want to do is deny the existence of racism and hear somebody black say its our fault we are in this position. Well it is not our fault, the record shows that and if you're expecting to see or hear anything like that, go find  Booker T. Washington because I'm not the one to tell you what you want to hear. I'm going to tell you what you need to know.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 25, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> …..or. how would they explain that 75% of black families are NOT living in poverty? Does racism only exist for a minority of blacks? where I live, they own nice homes, shop at Prada, and have dinner out at Morton’s. That a subclass of blacks didn’t take advantage of the opportunities given them is not whitey’s fault.


Blacks have lived at more than double the white poverty rate for the last 60 years. If racism doesn't exist whites and blacks should have the same rates of poverty. Now shut the fuck up.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 25, 2022)

monkrules said:


> No matter how positive the content of a conversation, a lot of black losers have to search for something to whine about.
> 
> As you said some choose to live in the past - and, because of that they'll never change, they'll always be losers.
> 
> Sadly, they're not even bright enough to be embarrassed about being losers. No use giving them a second thought.


 Here is an example of how prevalent psychosis is among members of the white right wing. This anus has consistently posted racist crap like this and he's talking about blacks living in the past.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 25, 2022)

*"Yep, because there are about five times as many of us as you. The appropriate question is, do whites commit five times more crimes than blacks do?"*

This is a ridiculous opinion and one we see far too many times argued. So if blacks and whites each kill 1,000 people blacks have a bigger problem because whites have to kill 5,000 people for it to be considered the same.


----------



## Muhammed (Apr 25, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> I
> 
> So you have two kids.
> 
> ...


Your racism is showing.

How did you become so racist?


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 25, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> That's what we got told.
> 
> But whites media often tends stall on releasing white people in crminal cases name and pic so they can scrub their social media.
> 
> He was just trying to get home to his family.



Do you have any evidence that Ms. Damond was anything other than a model citizen?  Again, I don't remember 9 minutes of silence for her. 



Paul Essien said:


> We need to take a look at Justine Damonds history. We need to know what prescriptions she took. Acting all erratic while the officer’s have their lives threatened everyday. She should have known to stay in her house until the officers gave her permission to move.


No, she had a reasonable expectation that the cops should listen to her concerns. 



Paul Essien said:


> He clearly feared for his life and she had no business moving towards a police car. These thugs still don’t get it. Moving your hand towards your wallet is enough to be threatening to an officer, why on Earth would this criminal move her whole body towards police in an aggressive manner? She must of been on Meth. Now her family is playing the victim like they always do. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.



Except she wasn't moving her hand towards her wallet. She just knocked on their window, and while the white cop who was with Noor was startled, he had the good sense NOT to shoot blindly.



Paul Essien said:


> According to our legal system moving in any manner that results in an officer killing you out of fear for their own safety… is a justified homicide. Clearly that is the case here and playing the victim will get you people nowhere in life.



Not really.  Chauvin went to Jail.  Van Dyke went to  jail. Noor went to jail.  Other cops who were cleared STILL lost their jobs. 



Paul Essien said:


> Justine Damond got the money because whites don't have to riot because black killers of whites tend to be arrested, charged, convicted and if they are in a state which allows it, have a better chance of getting the death penalty.
> 
> In the George Floyd case for example, they wasn’t even initially arrested.
> 
> Were it not for social media and some very vocal folks we wouldn’t even know about it. Black americans had to practically have a civil war and spread that message globally just get you to act like normal himan being



Actually, the reason why it became a 'big deal" was that the 9 minutes of video made it something other than the abstract "1000 Americans who are killed by police every year". 

Combine that with a population who had been locked in their homes for months due to Covid, millions of people losing their jobs or in the process of losing their jobs, and the media playing that tape ad nauseum, and yes, you got riots.  

I would argue the riots have backfired.  Whites started out having sympathy, but now you are seeing the backlash. 




Paul Essien said:


> George Floyd wasn't killed because he had a criminal record. He was killed because he was black and what you doing is part of the white supremacist that is always trying to justify why the blk person deserved to die..
> 
> But in America a Black Person has to be a ‘perfect victim. The reason the NAACP used Rosa Parks was her character could not be sh*t on by whites.



No, George Floyd was killed because he resisted arrest, and was high as a kite on fentanyl.  He absolutely SHOULD have been arrested.  It would have been negligent to let him drive off in his SUV while he was freaking out on Fentanyl. The problem came when excessive force was used to restrain him.



Paul Essien said:


> Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris slaughtred 23 ppl for no reason and the White Media made all sorts excuses for their behavior and many whites blamed Marilyn Manson, KFDM but not their upper-class two parent families who did not pay attention to these psychopaths or the fact that the Police had reported these guys were bullying their classmates months before the act occured.



Here's the thing.  We are surprised when this happens because white kids usually DON'T go on shooting sprees.  As opposed to when a gangbanger does a drive by and they have an extensive criminal record and were treated leniently by the Criminal Justice system not because they were reformed, but because we don't have enough room in the jails.

Nobody has been tougher on the topic of gun control than I've been... but the gun fetishists can rightly point out that while 50% of murders are committed by black men, only a handful happen at the hands of white mass shooters.  



Paul Essien said:


> Or the Boston bomber of 2013. White man got a front cover of rolling stone.



So you think that was a flattering article? 



Paul Essien said:


> The difference is black people had to do this to get justice



Yeah, good going.  IN the process, you almost gave us a second term of Trump.  If Trump had to merely deal with his ineptitude on Covid and the economy, he'd have lost 40 states.  But instead, BLM and Antifa scared the hell out of people and they voted for Trump again. 250,000 votes. That's all that needed to switch in five swing states for Trump to have won. 



Paul Essien said:


> And big tough talking President Trump, instead of speaking to the nation to bring calm, hid in a bunker when the protests reached the White House fence.
> 
> We have to do this and get the whole world behind us to get justice even as far as Paris.



Americans don't care what the rest of the world thinks.  The reason Trump came as close as he did to winning a second term is because people were terrified BLM and Antifa would stop by and burn their house down.



Paul Essien said:


> The current criminal justice system is absolutely like Jim Crow. Some things are a crime for black people and are not a crime for white people. It’s as simple as that. So for u saying _“just don’t do the drugs”,_
> 
> That's kinda like me giving you some painkillers to solve your toothache, Until you deal with the cause of your toothache, not amount of painkillers will truly sort your toothache



Um.  No.  Drugs are not like drinking out of the water fountain. I do think that the war on drugs has been a disaster, and sentences are uneven... but you aren't going to get a lot of sympathy from me that "I smoked crack and now I'm in jail." 



Paul Essien said:


> Racism grows and feeds off a culture of silence. The point of calling out racism is to break down that silence. It does not matter if you persuade anyone, it does not matter if you “win the argument”. It is very unlikely you will. What matters is that you were heard and planted that seed in people’s minds of, “Hey, maybe this is not right.”
> 
> We have always had to force whites act right.



Yeah, but if you are screaming racism at every petty offense and imagined slight, you kind of lose credibility.  Kind of like the Boy Who Cried Wolf.  There's notion of picking your battles wisely.

Here's the thing. I'm a white, straight male.  I try to do the right thing and stand for fairness, but frankly, if you are going to scream at me because I don't think that we should demonize cops or whatever, I'm kind of out.   It isn't a good thing when you try to help people and they STILL resent you for whatever anger issues they have.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 25, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Never said he was a saint but none of that warranted his death, therefore the mention of those things are irrelevant to the discussion of his situation. No one is a saint and alcohol and nicotine are controlled substances that are legal. He may not have known that 20 was counterfeit. Still today nobody knows if that 20 was counterfeit.
> 
> Whites have been on controlled substances, committing crimes, fight with police, take their vehicles and live. This is what Paul was pointing out;, the demonization of black victims of police violence while whites get treated like saints.



Well, then Paul was kind of an idiot for saying that.

I agree, the amount of force used against Floyd WAS excessive.  Taking him into custody was not.  He passed a fake $20.  He was stoned out of his  mind on fentanyl and driving an SUV.  And i'd have the exact same position if he were a white guy who was drunk and trying to drive off in an SUV. 

White victims don't get treated like saints.  In fact, MOST white people who are killed by police are usually treated like they had it coming.  The Damond case was an exception, because that cop was so completely out of line. He literally shot an unarmed woman who was asking for help.  It didn't help that Noor was fast-tracked through his training and police psychiatrists had serious concerns about his mental stability before the incident. 

Nobody made a big deal about Tony Timpa, a white schizophrenic man who suffocated while police were restraining him. 









						Killing of Tony Timpa - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Nobody made a big deal about Daniel Shaver, an unarmed white man who was shot by police while he was on his knees in a hotel hallway. 









						Shooting of Daniel Shaver - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




And I'm going to go one further.  The police make 10 million arrests and 40 million traffic stops a year.   Of those, only 1000 end up in lethal force being used.   A terrible number, but again, we live in a gun happy society.  Of those, most are justified.  The person in question pulled a gun or a knife.  

So out of 50 million police encounters, every year, you have maybe a handful where the police officer was out of line?   Well, you all got the response you wanted, the cops stopped responding at all, and crime rates have shot up.  Happy now?  I'm not.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 25, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Is that the only time that happened to you?


Yes, that’s the only time a manager felt so bad about it that she admitted it to me, but not the only time a less qualified black woman was promoted ahead of me. OTOW, a white woman was NEVER promoted into a role I applied for. If your implication is that I didn’t get the job(s) for other reasons, and not because my competitor was black, you’re in denial. I even overheard two black people talking at my mother’s ALF, and one was telling the other that she is a shoe-in because she’s a black female,


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 25, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Why do you think they added women to the list of protected classes?
> 
> That aside though, affirmative action has nothing in the text of the executive order that gives racial preference to ANY group, let alone black people.  There is also nothing in the text that legalizes discrimination against white people.  That would be unlawful.


OK, here’s how it happened:

True, the executive order only specifies “minorities,” but the liberals at colleges and grad programs looked around and took it upon themselves to favor the group most behind - the blacks. They sure didn’t decide to favor the Asians and Jews, who were already exemplary students and winning admittance on merit.

So it turned into special favor toward blacks, and, while not specifically being named in the EO, they are the beneficiaries of it. It has become so extreme in recent years that whites with 3.7 are rejected while blacks with 3.2 are accepted (and test scores equally disparate).

Now what has happened is that top white students were being rejected and far less qualified black students accepted to such an extreme, that whites being discriminated against were starting to rebel.. So the liberals at these institutions designed admissions tests that blacks could score about the same on to close the gap.

When even that failed, they started to come up with questions to which the ”correct” answer was subjective, such as the personality test that Harvard used to justify rejecting brilliant Asian students and accepting merely above-average black students - claiming Asians had unlikeable personalities. This is major racist bias designed to advantage blacks, and is in violation of the equal protection clause. This will be resolved by the SCOTUS.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 25, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Then t
> 
> Then take race out of it entirely.  Make Affirmative Action for anyone making less than the poverty level.  Make it economic, not racial.


That’s what I’ve been saying. It actually should be a combination of merit and SES - so that poor white kids who are also top students in their school get a chance over a middle-class black students with lesser grades.

That would STILL advantage blacks moreso than whites - at twice the rate - because blacks have twice the poverty rate. But blacks and their enabling self-loathing whites object on the grounds that they don’t want a program that favors whites, even poor ones, and they only want a program that favors blacks exclusively.

Tell me again….WHO are the racists?!


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 25, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Whites don’t get treated like saints.  White criminals go to jail.  When white criminals resist arrest they get beaten and shot, but no one makes a big deal about it because we blame them, not the cops.  I’ve been stopped and questioned and ticketed many times.  I make it my business to reduce tensions.  I do exactly what I’m told and make damned sure I don’t raise anyone’s stress levels.


Me too. The only time I was pulled over was because I made an illegal U turn. I didn’t give the cop attitude, claim he has no right to see my driver’s license when he asked, and otherwise treated the cop as though he was the bad guy. I just remained polite and respectful.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 25, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Earning money wasn't part of the question, it was about acquiring money in ways other than earning it.
> 
> The point is, if the family you're born into isn't poor than you have a higher likelihood of not ending up being poor yourself, because you will learn (hopefully) what is needed in order to escape a descent into poverty.
> 
> Starting out with money is always preferable to starting without money and trying to obtain it.  And it's easier.


Well, duh. Yes, starting out with money is easier. But that doesn’t mean racism is why a minority of blacks still live below poverty level. They are because they’re not making the right choices, which in this day and age are easier than ever with reliable birth control. The main cause of poverty is not racism - but out of wedlock births by kids who can’t afford babies.

And I digress, but in an ideal world, high school students wouldn’t be having sex at all. They’d be focused on their studies, and some casual fun with friends. Then there would be no worries about an unplanned pregnancy that could derail one’s life. There is time enough for sex later - starting in college, or late teens. Of course, we are not in an ideal world, so all you have to do is use reliable birth control, and double up.


----------



## Meathead (Apr 25, 2022)

IM2 said:


> You did not give me a positive suggestion and I have never liked your racist ass either. So like I said, shut the fuck up until you turn black and live what we go through.


All assholes have gone through what you go through. That's because you're assholes.

Now, as to why you're assholes may be interesting, it's for another thread.


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 25, 2022)

A white kid and a black kid start out at the same place on the starting line but the black kid has to carry a 50 lb weight 


It's called racism


----------



## mga138 (Apr 25, 2022)

IM2 said:


> I'm saying what the facts have proven. Everything you have said here is a lie.


Point to a single untruth I've ever written. I'll wait. . .


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 25, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> He never said slavery is OK now.
> 
> (When the Progs start lying about what their opponent says, you know they have no way to respond and they’re flailing. I see it done all the time here, and it’s getting more and more blatant.)


But it was OK then because "EVEYONE WAS DOING IT."

That was sick then and excusing it today is just as sick.
But thanks for giving us the house racist point of view.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 25, 2022)

Meathead said:


> All assholes have gone through what you go through. That's because you're assholes.
> 
> Now, as to why you're assholes may be interesting, it's for another thread.


I don’t know what that a-hole went through, since he’s on ignore, but as you point out, we ALL have shit to deal with, being treated like crap, etc.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 25, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> But it was OK then because "EVEYONE WAS DOING IT."
> 
> That was sick then and excusing it today is just as sick.
> But thanks for giving us the house racist point of view.


AGAIN.….it wasn't OK from our current perspective, but the mores of the time allowed for it. Regardless, what happened 200 years ago - or racism in general - has nothing to do with the fact that 25% of blacks live below the poverty line.

They could get out of poverty if they didn’t have babies out of wedlock and finished school. There’s nothing racist about that - study after study has shown the correlation between having a baby you can’t afford when you’re a unmarried girl and poverty.

You libs just scream Raaaaacist! at anyone who refuses to blame racism for poor outcomes, rather than personal choice. You’re not helping black people by making them believe that they are living in poverty because WHITE PEOPLE‘S FAULT!! instead of showing the them proven way out: no babies before marriage, finish high school, and acquire some sort of post-high school job training.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 25, 2022)

If racism is the cause for poverty, how come 75% of blacks moved beyond it?


----------



## Meathead (Apr 25, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I don’t know what that a-hole went through, since he’s on ignore, but as you point out, we ALL have shit to deal with, being treated like crap, etc.


I'm pretty sure he's got me on ignore too. Still, I see his posts and comment on him being an asshole with a chip on his shoulder.


----------



## Dadoalex (Apr 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> *When did I say it was okay then?  *What I said is that it was acceptable to the people of that time.
> 
> They used to have public hangings for a man simply stealing a horse.  We don't use horses for travel any longer, but we can't have a public hanging for stealing a car.  It's simply not acceptable today but was back then.  Did you ever see the classic movie Cool Hand Luke?  That's what prisons used to be like.  Again, acceptable back then, but not acceptable today.


In that post.
How is acceptable, not OK?
Try a little English today.

Geez.  You are so deep in denial you can't even understand the words you write.


----------



## Meathead (Apr 25, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> In that post.
> How is acceptable, not OK?
> Try a little English today.
> 
> Geez.  You are so deep in denial you can't even understand the words you write.


There was a time slavery was "acceptable". Was it OK too?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2022)

Dadoalex said:


> In that post.
> How is acceptable, not OK?
> Try a little English today.
> 
> Geez.  You are so deep in denial you can't even understand the words you write.



Are you mentally retarded or something?  Why are leftists so foreign to the English language?  One more time: 

Slavery was acceptable TO THE PEOPLE BACK THEN.  It doesn't mean it's okay with us in 2022.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2022)

IM2 said:


> *"Yep, because there are about five times as many of us as you. The appropriate question is, do whites commit five times more crimes than blacks do?"*
> 
> This is a ridiculous opinion and one we see far too many times argued. So if blacks and whites each kill 1,000 people blacks have a bigger problem because whites have to kill 5,000 people for it to be considered the same.



No, what it points to is you are five times more likely to be murdered by a black than a white.  You are five times more likely to be robbed by a black than a white.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Blacks have lived at more than double the white poverty rate for the last 60 years. If racism doesn't exist whites and blacks should have the same rates of poverty. Now shut the fuck up.



But it certainly can't be because blacks are more likely to make bad financial decisions in their life, can it?  Blacks never do that.  It must be racism that's responsible.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2022)

IM2 said:


> There have been whites who have beaten cops and lived. There have been blacks who have complied with cops and died.



Any officer that killed a citizen that complied with them are held to criminal standards.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Earning money wasn't part of the question, it was about acquiring money in ways other than earning it.
> 
> The point is, if the family you're born into isn't poor than you have a higher likelihood of not ending up being poor yourself, because you will learn (hopefully) what is needed in order to escape a descent into poverty.
> 
> Starting out with money is always preferable to starting without money and trying to obtain it.  And it's easier.



What kind of money are you talking about?  Enough to make a living, enough to have to live in mom's basement, enough to be considered one in the top 10%  

Poverty is a condition of having no or not enough money.  The solution to poverty is getting money.  The way to get money is to get a job and make money.  

It's like I said earlier on in the discussion.  I always heed to my fathers words when I was a child.  "Son, making money is easy. An idiot can make money.  But money is hard to keep!"  

If you can't keep the money you make, you can never make enough.  It seems the problem is not making money, but what you do with the money you make regardless of how much that is.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 25, 2022)

I 


Lisa558 said:


> Me too. The only time I was pulled over was because I made an illegal U turn. I didn’t give the cop attitude, claim he has no right to see my driver’s license when he asked, and otherwise treated the cop as though he was the bad guy. I just remained polite and respectful.


I used to be an inveterate speeder.  I got one or two tickets a year.  I always behaved respectfully towards the cop not only because it’s the smart thing to do, but because he was just doing his job.


----------



## katsteve2012 (Apr 25, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Joe, the country gave Ali segregation and racism. That's why he refused to fight.



He did "fight" for America in the Olympics and brought home a gold medal, which he tossed into the Ohio River, because even though he stood on the top pedestal to receive  the medal, when he returned home to Louisville, Kentucky, he still could not even be served a sandwich in a local diner.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 25, 2022)

mga138 said:


> Point to a single untruth I've ever written. I'll wait. . .


I know you want to believe that the crap you write about blacks is true, but I happen to be black and know they are not. 


JoeB131 said:


> Well, then Paul was kind of an idiot for saying that.
> 
> I agree, the amount of force used against Floyd WAS excessive.  Taking him into custody was not.  He passed a fake $20.  He was stoned out of his  mind on fentanyl and driving an SUV.  And i'd have the exact same position if he were a white guy who was drunk and trying to drive off in an SUV.
> 
> ...



Blacks have been getting murdered like this by police since policing was started. And police have gotten away with it. What people fail to understand is that protests against police brutality is a protest against all police brutality and killings.  Whites do not get killed by police at 3 times the rate of their population and blacks are at least 3 times more likely to get shot  than whites. These are convenient facts you leave out of this conversation. Police did not have to quit responding, they did so because they were mad that people are holding them to account.

The 2019 Global Burden of Diseases, Injuries, and Risk Factors Study published in The Lancet estimated that from 1980-2018, a span of 38 years, that police in the United States killed 30,800 people. During the same period, the study estimated that police killed 293,000 people worldwide. The study found that despite the U.S. having only 4 percent of the global population, American law enforcement was responsible for more than 13 percent of all police killings on planet earth.

_ "The burden of police violence fatalities in the USA is known to fall disproportionately on Black, Indigenous, and Hispanic populations. Recent studies suggest that over the life course, about one in every 1000 Black men are killed by the police in the USA, making them 2.5 times more likely to be killed by police than White men. Black women are about 1.4 times more likely to be killed by police than are White women. Systemic and direct racism, manifested in laws and policies as well as personal implicit biases, result in Black, Indigenous, and Hispanic Americans being the targets of police violence."_

Jordan Woods did a 10-year study of police stops, and it is considered one of the most in-depth studies on this issue. The findings were published in 2019 and are available at the Michigan Law Review repository website. Here are his words:

_ "To summarize, the findings do not support the dominant danger narrative surrounding routine traffic stops. Based on a conservative estimate, I found that the rate for a felonious killing of an officer during a routine traffic stop for a traffic violation was only 1 in every 6.5 million stops. The rate for an assault that results in serious injury to an officer was only 1 in every 361,111 stops. Finally, the rate for an assault (whether it results in officer injury or not) was only 1 in every 6,959 stops. Less conservative estimates suggest that these rates may be much lower. In addition, the vast majority (over 98%) of the evaluated cases in the study resulted in no or minor injuries to the officers. Further, only a very small percentage of cases (about 3%) involved violence against officers in which a gun or knife was used or found at the scene, and the overwhelming majority of those cases resulted in no or minor injuries to an officer. Less than 1% of the evaluated cases involved guns or knives and resulted in serious injury to or the felonious killing of an officer."_

 The findings speak for themselves. The actual threat level to police appears to be less than the authority to kill police are given.

The quote below is written by members of the National Conference of Black Lawyers, the International Association of Democratic Lawyers, and the National Lawyers Guild as part of the Report of the International Commission of Inquiry on Systemic Racist Police Violence against People of African Descent in the U.S., on page 16:

_"The Commissioners find a prima facie case of Crimes against Humanity warranting an investigation by the International Criminal Court (ICC). The crimes under the Rome Statute include: Murder, Severe Deprivation of Physical Liberty, Torture, Persecution of people of African descent, and other Inhumane Acts, which occurred in the context of a widespread or systematic attack directed against the civilian population of Black people in the U.S."_

Jordan B. Woods, _Policing, Danger Narratives, and Routine Traffic Stops_, 117 MICH. L. REV. 635 (2019)."Policing, Danger Narratives, and Routine Traffic Stops" by Jordan Blair Woods

GBD 2019 Police Violence US Subnational Collaborators, _Fatal police violence by race and state in the USA, 1980–2019: a network meta-regression,_ The Lancet , VOLUME 398, ISSUE 10307, P1239-1255, OCTOBER 02, 2021, DEFINE_ME

National Conference of Black Lawyers, the International Association of Democratic Lawyers, and the National Lawyers Guild_, Report of the International Commission of Inquiry on Systemic Racist Police Violence against People of African Descent in the U.S_. pg. 16, https://inquirycommission.org/website/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Commission-Report-15-April.pdf


----------



## IM2 (Apr 25, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Any officer that killed a citizen that complied with them are held to criminal standards.


No they aren't. Ask Philando Castille.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 25, 2022)

White have a bunch of whites trying to tell blacks that what we see is not so even as they have never seen it.


----------



## Meathead (Apr 25, 2022)

IM2 said:


> White have a bunch of whites trying to tell blacks that what we see is not so even as they have never seen it.


Your English is like your math. Now figure out why you're a failure.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2022)

IM2 said:


> No they aren't. Ask Philando Castille.



I didn't know who he was so I looked it up.  As I stated earlier, the officer was held responsible,  charged, but found not guilty by a jury of his peers.  One juror gave this statement to the media: 

*What we were looking at was some pretty obscure things to a lot of people, like culpable negligence. You think you might know what it means: It's negligent, but maybe pretty bad negligence. Well, it's gross negligence with an element of recklessness ... We had the law in front of us so we could break it down.

It just came down to us not being able to see what was going on in the car. Some of us were saying that there was some recklessness there, but that didn't stick because we didn't know what escalated the situation: was he really seeing a gun? We felt [Yanez] was an honest guy ... and in the end, we had to go on his word, and that's what it came down to.[89]*

I find it very difficult to believe a police officer would shoot a motorist for no reason at all; jeopardizing his career, violence, and of course his job which he was fired from regardless of the verdict.  In our system of justice an accused is innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around the way liberals would like to see in this country.  If you know a police officer feels threatened by your actions, the best thing you can do is simply freeze which apparently this guy didn't do.  

And here is something else for you to know: 

*In fact, as of July 9, whites were 54 percent of the 440 police shooting victims this year whose race was known, blacks were 28 percent and Hispanics were 18 percent, according to The Washington Post’s ongoing database of fatal police shootings. Those ratios are similar to last year’s tally, in which whites made up 50 percent of the 987 fatal police shootings, and blacks, 26 percent. (The vast majority of those police homicide victims were armed or otherwise threatening the officer.) But Butterfield could be forgiven his error, given the virtually exclusive media focus on black victims of police officers.*

_








						Police Shootings and Race | Manhattan Institute
					

This piece is the first installment of a guest-blog series by Heather Mac Donald for the Washington Post's The Volokh Conspiracy Eugene has kindly invited me to present findings from my new book, “The War on Cops.” The book argues that the Black Lives Matter narrative about a racist...




					www.manhattan-institute.org
				



_


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 25, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Blacks have been getting murdered like this by police since policing was started. And police have gotten away with it. What people fail to understand is that protests against police brutality is a protest against all police brutality and killings. Whites do not get killed by police at 3 times the rate of their population and blacks are at least 3 times more likely to get shot than whites. These are convenient facts you leave out of this conversation. Police did not have to quit responding, they did so because they were mad that people are holding them to account.



I'm going to give you a bit of preamble here, because I see both sides of this.  I have been on speaking terms with my brother for five years because he is friends with a police officer who was involved in a high profile shooting incident here in Chicago.  He didn't like that I felt this officer should have been held to account (and was.)  On the upside, I don't have to talk to his crazy wife, either.   Conversely, a girl I graduated from Grammar School with lost her son-in-law because he was struck by a train when following up on a shooting report because some knucklehead decided to start firing a gun he found in a railroad yard. 

So, I completely understand WHY cops aren't being proactive anymore.  The officer who went to prison probably wasn't a racist (I was surprised to find out his sister is married to a black man), he just panicked in a stressful situation.  For that, he lost his job, went to prison, and probably won't have much for a professional career.  So I can imagine a cop, who is maybe a year away from his pension, and he hears about an incident where someone is robbing a store or trying to break into a truck, you think he's going to rush out to get in the middle of that?   Nope.  Better to hang back, write up a report, and be done with it.  

Because, frankly, the police are under no legal requirement to protect your life (_Warren v. District of Columbia, Lozito v. NYC_).  Why risk your own finances and freedom?  




IM2 said:


> The 2019 Global Burden of Diseases, Injuries, and Risk Factors Study published in The Lancet estimated that from 1980-2018, a span of 38 years, that police in the United States killed 30,800 people. During the same period, the study estimated that police killed 293,000 people worldwide. The study found that despite the U.S. having only 4 percent of the global population, American law enforcement was responsible for more than 13 percent of all police killings on planet earth.



Okay, do you really think that the Chinese police are being forthcoming on how many people they kill?  Or Russia? Or any of the other countries in the third world? 

Now, I'll agree, that our police do use lethal force more often than their counterparts in other developed countries.  Then again, police in other developed countries aren't dealing with 300 million guns on the streets, including semi-automatic weapons.  They aren't dealing with dangerous, unmedicated schizophrenics and drug addicts, either. So in many ways, the police are dealing with the other things we refuse to fix in this country.  And, yes, racism is one of those things.  So is poverty.  



IM2 said:


> "The burden of police violence fatalities in the USA is known to fall disproportionately on Black, Indigenous, and Hispanic populations. *Recent studies suggest that over the life course, about one in every 1000 Black men are killed by the police in the USA, making them 2.5 times more likely to be killed by police than White men.* Black women are about 1.4 times more likely to be killed by police than are White women. Systemic and direct racism, manifested in laws and policies as well as personal implicit biases, result in Black, Indigenous, and Hispanic Americans being the targets of police violence."



I am going to call shenanigans on this claim.  1 in 1000?   African Americans make up 13% of the population.  - that would mean 42 million people.  Taking out females (21 million) 1 in 1000 is 21,000.   not sure what you are considering a "life course" exactly...  but let's say 60 years. Okay, then you MIGHT get to 350 a year.   

The actual numbers are less.


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 25, 2022)

JoeB131
*Do you have any evidence that Ms. Damond was anything other than a model citizen?



*





Yes. The system of white supremacy.

She was potrayed as an angel. And the way the union put up a half hearted defense. The only time the union will stand up for a black officer is when he kills or injures someone black.

JoeB131
*Again, I don't remember 9 minutes of silence for her.



*





Well fight for her to get 9 minutes of silence. Get out their and GRIND. The reason why practically everyone in the USA knos the name George Floyds name is because we fought for his name to be heard.

If all ppl are really suffering from police brutality then wouldn’t you think that whites should be complaining about the police ? Rather than complaining about blks complaining about the police ?

End of the day white people will support harsher police force if they’ll hurt blacks even if they could potentially be used against whites too.

It’s an example of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

JoeB131
*Except she wasn't moving her hand towards her wallet. 



*





Neighbours said that before the gunfire they heard what sounded like Damond banging on the police car. Presumably she was trying to get their attention.

And notice something else ? There was n video evidence.

To compare: In Minneapolis in 2015 Jamar Clark, an unarmed Black man, was shot in the head by a White police officer and died. Witnesses said Clark was on the ground in handcuffs. Police said Clark was reaching for an officer’s gun. The state police looked into it and agreed with the city police. The officers involved were not charged with a crime.

JoeB131
*She just knocked on their window, and while the white cop who was with Noor was startled, he had the good sense NOT to shoot blindly.*

This was essentially a seminal case involving black police officers who shoot and kill a white suspect of which all future case will be judged.

All black law enforcement members will be placed in an unfortunately inverted position of whether to shoot and live the balance of your life or some portion of it in prison, or in the alternative, refrain from shooting and be counted amongst those officers already tallied or calculated within the statistics. Take your pick, but do it quickly.

JoeB131
*No, George Floyd was killed because he resisted arrest, and was high as a kite on fentanyl.*

It doesn't matter if black people are obeying the law or complying.


JoeB131
*Here's the thing. We are surprised when this happens because white kids usually DON'T go on shooting sprees. As opposed to when a gangbanger does a drive by and they have an extensive criminal record and were treated leniently by the Criminal Justice system not because they were reformed, but because we don't have enough room in the jails. Nobody has been tougher on the topic of gun control than I've been... but the gun fetishists can rightly point out that while 50% of murders are committed by black men, only a handful happen at the hands of white mass shooters.*





JoeB131
*Americans don't care what the rest of the world thinks. The reason Trump came as close as he did to winning a second term is because people were terrified BLM and Antifa would stop by and burn their house down.*

This is getting sillier

JoeB131
*Yeah, but if you are screaming racism at every petty offense and imagined slight you kind of lose credibility Kind of like the Boy Who Cried Wolf. There's notion of picking your battles wisely.*

White America have always denied racism even back in the 1960's. When you look Gallup polls bk then most white American though MLK was a troublemaker and black had just as good chance in getting the job and education and housing.

As for me "_screaming_" ? White people anger and screaming is pretty damn _transparent_ to black People. I can fee yours and Lisa558 and monkrules anger

White emotion and screaming is so justified by the culture that whites don't recognize it as emotion. Their arguments they use time and time again are not seen by them as emotional because they think that it is justified and reasonable. _"My ancestors never owned any slaves!"_ seems to them like a_ 'rational'_ and _'obvious'_ (and 'creative') refutation of white supremacy.

JoeB131
*Here's the thing. I'm a white, straight male. I try to do the right thing and stand for fairness*

If you srated talking like this

"_The truth is blacks imagine little. Discrimination in hiring, housing and education has been well documented. The government should take forceful action to end it as it goes against the American value of equal opportunity for all regardless of race_."

I'd take your point

*But yet almost no white person talks like that*

At best some whites will admit to discrimination but then discount its effects. Or they will say they believe in equality of opportunity but then find reasons to oppose any policy with the teeth to achieve it.

Joe fox
*but frankly, if you are going to scream at me*

Once again. I'm not screaming. I'm disagreeing with you.

JoeB131
*because I don't think that we should demonize cops or whatever,*

No I like cops. What I don't like is these white supremacist cop who are all over law enforcement and let's be clear on something else. This "_He was resisting arrest"_ argument that many whites use to justify blk ppl getting killed by police

The police know how to disarm ppl when they are white, no matter how agresssive they are. Their guns don't seem to work when they are white




Where as even when blk ppl are handcuffed and not resisting


JoeB131
*I'm kind of out. It isn't a good thing when you try to help people and they STILL resent you for whatever anger issues they have.*
.
Black American have always tried to do this the nice way. We have marched. We have sang. Just to eat a lunch counter. Just to go to school









We have written films. There are studies and survey about racism. We have written books about racism and whites too. MLK said _"Wanna a world were blk boys and white girls can hold hands"_ and whites killed him

Fast forward to today

When blk ppl in the NFL (_Colin Kapernick_) complained at police brutality and racism, he took a knee.

What could have been more politically correct, less angry, more friendly to white ppls tender sensitivities than taken a knee ? There was no riots. No uprisings.

But did you see anyone say "_O since you negroes asked so politely. We're gonna have legislation. Yes !! Legislation today !! We are going to have the FBI set up a taskforce to round up all the racists who kill blk ppl. Were gonna have laws to put ppl, who call the police on blk ppl, just 4 being blk, in jail_"

But white supremacist don't understand that language and you have to speak the language of the white man and the white man only understands violence. So you have to talk in a way that he understands. So we have to burn sh*t,, destroy sh*t, even kill.

Even a RAT, if you corner that rat ? It'll jump up and bite ya ass. Every creature will defend its self from mistreatment
.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 25, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Yes. The system of white supremacy.
> 
> She was potrayed as an angel. And the way the union put up a half hearted defense. The only time the union will stand up for a black officer is when he kills or injures someone black.



She was portrayed as an innocent woman with a decent job, who was shot for no good reason...  And kind of hard for the union to put up a defense when you are that obviously in the wrong.  The union didn't put much of a defense up for Chauvin, either.   The question I would ask the Union for both of these men is why these guys were STILL cops where there were so many previous incidents indicating they might be unfit.  Chauvin previously choked a suspect, Noor pulled out his gun and menaced people on a traffic stop. 



Paul Essien said:


> Well fight for her to get 9 minutes of silence. Get out their and GRIND. The reason why practically everyone in the USA knos the name George Floyds name is because we fought for his name to be heard.



Well, more like, there was video from mulitple angle documenting the event.  What happened to him was wrong.  He's not Rosa Parks. He's not Emmet Till.  He's a career criminal who ran into a bad cop.  



Paul Essien said:


> If all ppl are really suffering from police brutality then wouldn’t you think that whites should be complaining about the police ? Rather than complaining about blks complaining about the police ?



Here's a little insight... if white people have an analog to Geo. Floyd, a career criminal who gets killed while committing a crime, we say, "Good Riddance".  We write that person off as a bad seed. 



Paul Essien said:


> This was essentially a seminal case involving black police officers who shoot and kill a white suspect of which all future case will be judged.
> 
> All black law enforcement members will be placed in an unfortunately inverted position of whether to shoot and live the balance of your life or some portion of it in prison, or in the alternative, refrain from shooting and be counted amongst those officers already tallied or calculated within the statistics. Take your pick, but do it quickly.



How is that any different?  Of course, if Noor considered this tiny Australian woman to be a threat, then he probably didn't need to be out there with a badge and a gun to start with, and probably wouldn't have been had Minneapolis pushed him through an accellerated training program. 



Paul Essien said:


> White America have always denied racism even back in the 1960's. When you look Gallup polls bk then most white American though MLK was a troublemaker and black had just as good chance in getting the job and education and housing.
> 
> As for me "_screaming_" ? White people anger and screaming is pretty damn _transparent_ to black People.



Uh, can we focus on the present, please?   Thanks.   We aren't talking about what people thought in the 1960's.  




Paul Essien said:


> No I like cops. What I don't like is these white supremacist cop who are all over law enforcement and let's be clear on something else. This "_He was resisting arrest"_ argument that many whites use to justify blk ppl getting killed by police
> 
> The police know how to disarm ppl when they are white, no matter how agresssive they are. Their guns don't seem to work when they are white



Except the police kill more white people than black people.  Check out this chart.   in 2020, they shot 457 white people, 241 black people, and 169 Hispanics.  126 people were of race unknown. 

In 2021. They only shot 234 white people, 139 black people, 66 Hispanics and 608 people unknown... yeah, kind of fishy, they just stopped reporting race. 






And here's the thing. 

Police make 10 million arrests and 40 million traffic stops a year. 
1000 of those involve lethal use of force.  Way too many, as far as I'm concerned, but also a pretty small number.  1 in 50,000.  
Are some cops racist?  Yup.  And a lot of them are just incompetent. 
Yes, we need police reform. 
Instead, you guys demonized the cops, and they just stopped doing their jobs, leaving you to the mercies of the George Floyd's of the world. 





Paul Essien said:


> If you srated talking like this
> 
> "_The truth is blacks imagine little. Discrimination in hiring, housing and education has been well documented. The government should take forceful action to end it as it goes against the American value of equal opportunity for all regardless of race_."



I have been saying that for years here, and have gotten on the bad side of nearly every right winger here.   Next.  




Paul Essien said:


> At best some whites will admit to discrimination but then discount its effects. Or they will say they believe in equality of opportunity but then find reasons to oppose any policy with the teeth to achieve it.



Hey, I support Affirmative Action...  Even once lost out on an opportunity to a less qualified person.  I support fair housing laws.  I believe in sincere police reform.  

But if you are going to just lump all white people together, at a certain point, we are just going to get on with our lives.  And frankly, talked like this.. 



Paul Essien said:


> But white supremacist don't understand that language and you have to speak the language of the white man and the white man only understands violence. So you have to talk in a way that he understands. So we have to burn sh*t,, destroy sh*t, even kill.
> 
> Even a RAT, if you corner that rat ? It'll jump up and bite ya ass. Every creature will defend its self from mistreatment



Hey, ask the Palestinians how well that's working out for them.  They've been fighting the Zionists for what, 70 years now.  You really think burning down a store that isn't owned by a white person is going to make white people more sympathetic? 

Here's the biggest problem with violence.  There's more of us than there are of you.  This kind of thinking got you Trump.  It might get you DeSantis in two years.  People don't make good decisions when they are scared.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 25, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yes, that’s the only time a manager felt so bad about it that she admitted it to me, but not the only time a less qualified black woman was promoted ahead of me. OTOW, a white woman was NEVER promoted into a role I applied for. If your implication is that I didn’t get the job(s) for other reasons, and not because my competitor was black, you’re in denial. I even overheard two black people talking at my mother’s ALF, and one was telling the other that she is a shoe-in because she’s a black female,


You're doing it again, you're making assumptions about me, such as why I asked you what I did, based on your own biases, and oftentimes erroneous preconceived notions about black people.  Then you attempt to apply them to me just because I'm black.

I was just curious about how many times this has happened to you over your lifetime.  And how often did you work in an environment where there were no black people?


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 25, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> OK, here’s how it happened:
> 
> True, the executive order only specifies “minorities,” [snipped]


You're starting out with a lie, the EO says NOTHING about any specific race so we know where you pulled that BS indicating "specifies minorities" from.

Again for about the 50th time, this is what the EO says:

1961 – President John F. Kennedy's Executive Order (E.O.) 10925 used affirmative action for the first time by instructing federal contractors to take "affirmative action to _ensure that applicants are treated equally *without regard to race, color, religion, sex, or national origin*_,” Established the Committee on Equal Employment Opportunity.​


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 25, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> That’s what I’ve been saying. It actually should be a combination of merit and SES - so that poor white kids who are also top students in their school get a chance over a middle-class black students with lesser grades.
> 
> That would STILL advantage blacks moreso than whites - at twice the rate - because blacks have twice the poverty rate. But blacks and their enabling self-loathing whites object on the grounds that they don’t want a program that favors whites, even poor ones, and they only want a program that favors blacks exclusively.
> 
> Tell me again….WHO are the racists?!


Who gets to be the arbitrator of merit?  Because before we had laws to do something about it, you all were doing an extremely shitty job of it.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 25, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> You're doing it again, you're making assumptions about me, such as why I asked you what I did, based on your own biases, and oftentimes erroneous preconceived notions about black people.  Then you attempt to apply them to me just because I'm black.
> 
> I was just curious about how many times this has happened to you over your lifetime.  And how often did you work in an environment where there were no black people?


I never worked in an environment where there were no black people. I always worked either in DC, or a few miles out of the city. We have lots of black people here. No idea what you’re trying to imply.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 25, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Who gets to be the arbitrator of merit?  Because before we had laws to do something about it, you all were doing an extremely shitty job of it.


Merit for a difficult educational program is decided by proven ability to succeed in academic programs, and that is by past performance - as measured by grades and test scores. This isn’t rocket science.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 25, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Here's a little insight... if white people have an analog to Geo. Floyd, a career criminal who gets killed while committing a crime, we say, "Good Riddance". We write that person off as a bad seed.



Ok Joe, you've gone too far. Whites couldn't tolerate the results of a legal election. So spare me. Whites would not say good riddance for police killing a man over an alleged counterfeit 20. Funny how the more whites do things argument is used when it suits whites. More whites commit crimes, are arrested for crimes and resist arrest. But when that is bought up, we get per capita. So what is it going to be? We are 3 times more likely to be shot and are killed by police at 3 times the rate of our population. So either whites get shot more because they commit more crimes, or we recognize that blacks are disproportionately murdered by police.

Floyd was not a career criminal. Floyd did not resist arrest and what he was accused of was something a ticket to appear could have been written for. Whites elect career criminals to make laws, so lets stop talking crazy.

So let me end with this, whites have pissed off, blacks, hispanics, indigenous nations and asians. So you can talk that shit about electing a trump or DeSantis all you want, but unless whites can keep us divided, you would be wise to start listening.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 25, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> You're starting out with a lie, the EO says NOTHING about any specific race so we know where you pulled that BS indicating "specifies minorities" from.
> 
> Again for about the 50th time, this is what the EO says:
> 
> 1961 – President John F. Kennedy's Executive Order (E.O.) 10925 used affirmative action for the first time by instructing federal contractors to take "affirmative action to _ensure that applicants are treated equally *without regard to race, color, religion, sex, or national origin*_,” Established the Committee on Equal Employment Opportunity.​


Did you read what I wrote? I said it didn’t originally specify by Race, but that social justice warriors - otherwise known as the liberals - ended up eventually focusing on blacks and favoring them over any other minorities. I’m not going to retype the whole thing - and have you not read it again.

You keep going back to the original EO as evidence. The problem is that the libs have deviated from that, and are now giving advantage to one specific race. Thus, they are in violation of the EO, and of the equal protection clause, and I expect the SCOTUS to rule what is now happening as racist and unconstitutional. The ones being discriminated against more than whites are the Asians.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 25, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Merit for a difficult educational program is decided by proven ability to succeed in academic programs, and that is by past performance - as measured by grades and test scores. This isn’t rocket science.


Whites have not gotten anything solely based on merit.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 25, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Did you read what I wrote? I said it didn’t originally specifics by Race, but that social justice warriors - otherwise known as the liberals - ended up eventually focusing on blacks and favoring them over any other minorities. I’m not going to retype the whole thing - and have you not read it again.


White women have benefitted the most from social justice.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 25, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Whites and Blacks both commit crimes at similar rates, they just are not charged and convicted at the same rate.


You didn't know that this is true?


----------



## IM2 (Apr 25, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Did you read what I wrote? I said it didn’t originally specify by Race, but that social justice warriors - otherwise known as the liberals - ended up eventually focusing on blacks and favoring them over any other minorities. I’m not going to retype the whole thing - and have you not read it again.
> 
> You keep going back to the original EO as evidence. The problem is that the libs have deviated from that, and are now giving advantage to one specific race. Thus, they are in violation of the EO, and of the equal protection clause, and I expect the SCOTUS to rule what is now happening as racist and unconstitutional. The ones being discriminated against more than whites are the Asians.


Bullshit. Again:

*WHITE WOMEN HAVE BENEFITTED MOST FROM AFFIRMATIVE ACTION

Based on the facts, SCOTUS should not rule in favor of Edward Blum. Asians are not being discriminated against at Harvard or anywhere else.*


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 25, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Ok Joe, you've gone too far. Whites couldn't tolerate the results of a legal election. So spare me. Whites would not say good riddance for police killing a man over an alleged counterfeit 20. Funny how the more whites do things argument is used when it suits whites. More whites commit crimes, are arrested for crimes and resist arrest. But when that is bought up, we get per capita. So what is it going to be? We are 3 times more likely to be shot and are killed by police at 3 times the rate of our population. So either whites get shot more because they commit more crimes, or we recognize that blacks are disproportionately murdered by police.
> 
> Floyd was not a career criminal. Floyd did not resist arrest and what he was accused of was something a ticket to appear could have been written for. Whites elect career criminals to make laws, so lets stop talking crazy.
> 
> So let me end with this, whites have pissed off, blacks, hispanics, indigenous nations and asians. So you can talk that shit about electing a trump or DeSantis all you want, but unless whites can keep us divided, you would be wise to start listening.



You are making up your own facts.  I posted a source that shows whites are shot and killed by police more often than blacks by percentage of shootings.  But with that figure, NOW you want to talk about per capita.  But as my link (with hyperlinks) demonstrate, blacks are shot and killed twice their ratio of our population.  However given the fact blacks lead the country in just about every crime, it's reasonable to assume they have more interaction with police than whites do. 

Floyd was not killed over counterfeit money, he had three times the lethal dose of fentanyl, mixed in with a variety of other drugs, serious medical conditions like a bad heart and clogged arteries, and couldn't sit still in the back of a police car.  

He was no career criminal?  You have to be kidding me. 

Criminal history in Texas​*   Between 1997 and 2005, Floyd was arrested several times on drug and theft charges and spent months in jail.

   In 2007, Floyd was charged with aggravated robbery in which he allegedly placed a gun on a woman’s abdomen and demanded drugs and money. In 2009, he pleaded guilty and received a five-year prison sentence. He got out on parole in 2013.

On May 6, 2019, Floyd was arrested. According to officers in the body camera video, Floyd appeared to be in possession of pills.

The defense for the upcoming trials claimed the body camera video from this arrest captured similar behavior from Floyd seen in his 2020 police encounter such as crying, pleading for his mom and evasive drug tactics.*









						Who was George Floyd?
					

A look at George Floyd's life and impact following his death in Minneapolis police custody.




					www.fox9.com
				











​


----------



## monkrules (Apr 26, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Did you read what I wrote? I said it didn’t originally specify by Race, but that social justice warriors - otherwise known as the liberals - ended up eventually focusing on blacks and favoring them over any other minorities. I’m not going to retype the whole thing - and have you not read it again.
> 
> You keep going back to the original EO as evidence. The problem is that the libs have deviated from that, and are now giving advantage to one specific race. Thus, they are in violation of the EO, and of the equal protection clause, and I expect the SCOTUS to rule what is now happening as racist and unconstitutional. The ones being discriminated against more than whites are the Asians.


This topic always ends up being a circular argument. Bleeding heart libs work tirelessly to lower standards across the board: in education, business, and government.

And they, And BLM whiners twist themselves into pretzels as they concoct endless nonsensical excuses for the lowered standards.

The simple and obvious truth is that blacks could NEVER compete, on a level field, with either whites or asians. Affirmative Action is a way of holding back other races in order to move blacks to the front of the line. All because, honestly, they could NEVER make it there on MERIT.

One truly negative result of this misguided favoritism is that black don't have an incentive to improve their intellectual skills and abilities. Having black skin is all they need.

Meanwhile our schools and businesses are going to shit because of the lowered standards. America as a whole loses, as a result of this ridiculous scheme


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 26, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> They always say that, but it isn’t true. The white woman who were passed over for promotions given to a less qualified black woman could attest to that. Myself included.
> 
> It‘s time for blacks in poverty to take accountability for their own choices, and for hiring, promotion, college admissions, etc., to be based on merit only.


Your attestations aren't worth much, they could easily be refuted by all of your postings denigrating black people.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 26, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Whites and Blacks both commit crimes at similar rates, they just are not charged and convicted at the same rate.


You didn't know that this is true? 

What do you think will happen If you have two people running a foot race but one of them starts 100 yards ahead of the starting line while the other starts from the starting line, do you really think that the person who started ahead of the other runner can turn around and criticize the other racer for not 1) not having caught him, 2) consistently lagging behind, 3) not doing better


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 26, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> This is now the 21st century, and blacks have been getting favored treatment for four decades


Not that this is true but 4 decades out of 24+ is what you're bitching about?  That makes you a snowflake.


----------



## ninja007 (Apr 26, 2022)

libs are libs first. color be damned. the highest form of hypocrisy . they vote for elitist racist whites as long as their is a d next to their name; they vote for racists like biden and clinton who put the most blacks in jail by far. they vote for a party who supports blacks killing babies and blacks having no 2 parent households because big daddy guvernment check will be daddy to the millions of black bastard kids everywhere.


----------



## ninja007 (Apr 26, 2022)

conservatives givea hand up, not a hand out. the only way libs win elections is by handouts and cheating and illegal immigrants.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 26, 2022)

monkrules said:


> No matter how positive the content of a conversation, a lot of black losers have to search for something to whine about.
> 
> As you said some choose to live in the past - and, because of that they'll never change, they'll always be losers.
> 
> Sadly, they're not even bright enough to be embarrassed about being losers. No use giving them a second thought.


Well that just goes to show how blindingly ignorant you all are.

We've nothing to be embarrassed about, because we're not losers.  And not just because *we *say we're not losers but because others say so as well, including some mega corporations like HP, Microsoft, UW, many professional organizations & government agencies, and a slew of colleges and universities.  When you accomplish certain things in life, there are people there to recognize and applaud your accomplishments, especially when they're obtained when the odds are against you or there were obstacles in your way.

There are lots of different ways to measure success and you all seem for the most part to be most proud of having been born into the White race.  You all pat yourself on the back a lot for that one but _being born white is not an _*accomplishment*, nor is being born Jewish (yes I'm talking about you Lisa).  That's merely the circumstances of your birth.  You did nothing to earn or win that particular set of circumstances.  

So if you all are "all that!" then tell us what's so special about each of you and how have you managed to navigate life without it being discovered what rabid racists you all are.

We're not here because we're losers, we're here to rub your noses in your own shit just like some people do to puppies when they're trying to potty train them but don't take that the wrong way.  You all are beyond redemption in my opinion and I would wager my last dollar that when you take your last breath and exit this world you will still be just as racist as you are today, so I personally just do this sometimes for fun.

That's how bright I am.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 26, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Slavery was abolished by the passage of the 13th amendment when it was ratified in December 1865.
> 
> My cousin was born July 13th 1888 and died July 30th 1987 at age 99.  Her mother was born in 1855 10 years before the end of slavery and was 33 when her daughter was born.
> 
> ...





Lisa558 said:


> Well, duh. Yes, starting out with money is easier. But that doesn’t mean racism is why a minority of blacks still live below poverty level. [snipped]


And what did slavery deprive the black people in this country of?  Money.  So even the poorest white people could still earn money, the slaves couldn't.

What else did slavery deprive black people of?  Education, even learning to read was punishable by whipping.

All of the things that you keep harping on that black people need to do and do better about are things that they were deprived of initially.  There has never been a chance to catch up because ever effort to progress was met with legislation to hold black people back as a race.  They passed laws that only applied to black people and they were all meant to control their lives and movement and to diminish their rights and freedoms.

We're running a race, we're starting 100 yards behind the starting line while you all are starting 100 yards ahead of the starting line.  If you can't understand this simple concept then you're either being disingenuous or you're just evil and don't follow your faith if you continue to intentionally lie about other people knowing the history of black people in the U.S. and the history of racism in this country.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 26, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> A white kid and a black kid start out at the same place on the starting line but the black kid has to carry a 50 lb weight
> 
> 
> It's called racism


They don't both start from the same place.  Remember, the laws passed when this country was founded were crafted to give white people every advantage possible and oftentimes at the expense of black people  while simultaneously relegating black people to 2nd class citizen status via a series of laws and court cases (Jim Crow, Black Codes, etc.)

The *Black Codes*, sometimes called *Black Laws*, were laws governing the conduct of African Americans (free and freed blacks). In 1832, James Kent wrote that "in most of the United States, there is a distinction in respect to political privileges, between free white persons and free colored persons of African blood; and in no part of the country do the latter, in point of fact, participate equally with the whites, in the exercise of civil and political rights."[1] Although Black Codes existed before the Civil War and many Northern states had them, it was the Southern U.S. states that codified such laws in everyday practice. The best known of them were passed in 1865 and 1866 by Southern states, after the American Civil War, in order to restrict African Americans' freedom, and to compel them to work for low wages.
Black Codes (United States) - Wikipedia​​Jim Crow laws were a collection of state and local statutes that legalized racial segregation. Named after a Black minstrel show character, the laws—which existed for about 100 years, from the post-Civil War era until 1968—were meant to marginalize African Americans by denying them the right to vote, hold jobs, get an education or other opportunities. Those who attempted to defy Jim Crow laws often faced arrest, fines, jail sentences, violence and death.​The roots of Jim Crow laws began as early as 1865, immediately following the ratification of the 13th Amendment, which abolished slavery in the United States.​​Black codes were strict local and state laws that detailed when, where and how formerly enslaved people could work, and for how much compensation. The codes appeared throughout the South as a legal way to put Black citizens into indentured servitude, to take voting rights away, to control where they lived and how they traveled and to seize children for labor purposes.​​The legal system was stacked against Black citizens, with former Confederate soldiers working as police and judges, making it difficult for African Americans to win court cases and ensuring they were subject to Black codes.​​These codes worked in conjunction with labor camps for the incarcerated, where prisoners were treated as enslaved people. Black offenders typically received longer sentences than their white equals, and because of the grueling work, often did not live out their entire sentence.
Jim Crow Laws​


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I didn't know who he was so I looked it up.  As I stated earlier, the officer was held responsible,  charged, but found not guilty by a jury of his peers.  One juror gave this statement to the media:
> 
> *What we were looking at was some pretty obscure things to a lot of people, like culpable negligence. You think you might know what it means: It's negligent, but maybe pretty bad negligence. Well, it's gross negligence with an element of recklessness ... We had the law in front of us so we could break it down.
> 
> ...


The officers were always found to have been justified in their shooting/killings. UNTIL just a couple of years ago and that's only because of the phones everyone carries on them that captured video of the officers in the act of wrong doing.

The police ALWAYS got away with this crap.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 26, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I never worked in an environment where there were no black people. I always worked either in DC, or a few miles out of the city. We have lots of black people here. No idea what you’re trying to imply.


Why are you so defensive all of a sudden?


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 26, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Merit for a difficult educational program is decided by proven ability to succeed in academic programs, and that is by past performance - as measured by grades and test scores. This isn’t rocket science.


A _*difficult *_educational program? Why difficult?


Lisa558 said:


> Did you read what I wrote? I said it didn’t originally specify by Race, but that social justice warriors - otherwise known as the liberals - ended up eventually focusing on blacks and favoring them over any other minorities. I’m not going to retype the whole thing - and have you not read it again.
> 
> You keep going back to the original EO as evidence. The problem is that the libs have deviated from that, and are now giving advantage to one specific race. Thus, they are in violation of the EO, and of the equal protection clause, and I expect the SCOTUS to rule what is now happening as racist and unconstitutional. The ones being discriminated against more than whites are the Asians.


No I didn't read what you wrote, that's what the [snipped] means.  And I didn't read it because your very first sentence was a mega untruth that has been repeated over and over again in spite of the fact that I've shown you all the text itself.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 26, 2022)

monkrules said:


> This topic always ends up being a circular argument. Bleeding heart libs work tirelessly to lower standards across the board: in education, business, and government.
> 
> And they, And BLM whiners twist themselves into pretzels as they concoct endless nonsensical excuses for the lowered standards.
> 
> ...


My grandfather was a fighter pilot during WWII.  Your opinion that "the simple and obvious truth is that blacks could NEVER compete on a level field with either whites or Asians" is nothing more than wishful thinking on your part.  The exact same thing was said about the Tuskegee Airmen when they had to sue the government in order to get admitted into flight training.

Once admitted they went on to make a name for themselves, 20 years prior to affirmative action, the "Red Tails" and many of the bomber pilots would request them as their escort for their bombing runs.

Listening to you blather on about people whom you are so far underneath, in every way imaginable was be laughable if it weren't so pathetic.

Do you all not believe that either?  More importantly why do you think I have any reason at all to lie to a bunch of racists?


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 26, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Ok Joe, you've gone too far. Whites couldn't tolerate the results of a legal election. So spare me. Whites would not say good riddance for police killing a man over an alleged counterfeit 20. Funny how the more whites do things argument is used when it suits whites. More whites commit crimes, are arrested for crimes and resist arrest. But when that is bought up, we get per capita. So what is it going to be? We are 3 times more likely to be shot and are killed by police at 3 times the rate of our population. So either whites get shot more because they commit more crimes, or we recognize that blacks are disproportionately murdered by police.



Actually, I gave TWO examples yesterday of white people who were killed by police, and you don't see white people getting worked up about them. 

One was Daniel Shaver, shot on his knees in a hotel hallway while he begged for his life, the other was Tony Timpa, a schizophrenic who died pretty much the same way that Floyd did. In neither case did the officers involved go to prison. And neither of these guys had extensive criminal records like Floyd had. 



IM2 said:


> Floyd was not a career criminal. Floyd did not resist arrest and what he was accused of was something a ticket to appear could have been written for. Whites elect career criminals to make laws, so lets stop talking crazy.



Actually, no.  He was operating a vehicle under the influence, they usually take you into custody for that.  He spent considerable amounts of his life in prison or probation, including aggrevated home invasion and armed robbery in 2009. .

There are black people who have been killed by police who truly were innocent.  Tamir Rice, Breonna Taylor, etc.  They weren't committing crimes or at least not serious crimes. Floyd wasn't innocent.  He's not Emmet Till.   The only reason why he was a big deal was his death was documented on video during a time period when the whole country was on edge because of Covid. 

Now in an ideal world, Floyd would have gotten treatment for his addiction, vocational training while he was in prison, etc. so that he wouldn't sink back into old habits when he got out of prison in 2013. 



IM2 said:


> So let me end with this, whites have pissed off, blacks, hispanics, indigenous nations and asians. So you can talk that shit about electing a trump or DeSantis all you want, but unless whites can keep us divided, you would be wise to start listening.



I wouldn't be so sure about that.... I recently had a discussion with an associate of mine- a Gay Hispanic Woman, who voted for Trump.  Right now, in Illinois, we have a black guy running for governor on a pro-police, pro-law and order platform.  People of all races are a little fed up with crime. They are fed up with little Timmy coming home from school and not knowing how to do math, but he's been told he's an oppressor. 

I personally wouldn't vote for DeSantis, but he knows how to take the same shit Trump was selling and put it in much nicer packaging. 

I try to avoid sounding like a whiny Mac1958, but this is a case where the left HAS gone too far.    Police reform.  Yeah, everyone can go along with that. We need to fix our police departments.  Talk about defunding the police and making a character like Floyd into a saint... that's when you start losing people. 

Even though Biden has avoided the more toxic rhetoric, part of the reason why his approval ratings are where they are at is because of this nonsense.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 26, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Not that this is true but 4 decades out of 24+ is what you're bitching about?  That makes you a snowflake.


Not sure what you’re talking about with 24 years, but the point is that blacks have had TWO full generations to move out of poverty via anti-white racist admissions policies - and most have - but for those who remain mired in the underclass, it’s in THEM to get out with responsible choices. It’s not whitey’s fault that they keep having babies they can’t afford and then don’t complete their education.

Once again, for the people in the back, do the following and you will move out of poverty:

1. Do not have baby you can’t afford while you’re young and unmarried
2. Finish high school

….and 3, stop blaming “racism” for your failure to do the above


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 26, 2022)

monkrules said:


> This topic always ends up being a circular argument. Bleeding heart libs work tirelessly to lower standards across the board: in education, business, and government.
> 
> And they, And BLM whiners twist themselves into pretzels as they concoct endless nonsensical excuses for the lowered standards.
> 
> ...



Oh, bullshit.  Check your privilege. 

I promise you, if I talked to everyone you ever worked with, I could find at least one person who thinks you are kind of useless.   And that works on the assumption you have a job. 

I've seen black people put into positions they didn't merit because of AA.  I've also seen white people put into positions they didn't merit because of nepotism or favoritism. 

A couple of years ago, I was in a Temp position where they selected a black woman for a full time position and kept me as a contractor.   Part of that was AA, part of that was office politics.  It became very annoying to me when this woman kept asking me how to do her job, but I'm a nice guy and I help people like that. 

You know what, though... eventually I got a better job because someone else I was nice to put in a good word for me.  

I know going into any job hunt, I am favored for being a white male, with an added bonus of being a veteran.  My downside is that I'm at an age where people are less likely to hire me because I'm older.  (Which is why I took to dying my hair).


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 26, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> A _*difficult *_educational program? Why difficult?
> 
> No I didn't read what you wrote, that's what the [snipped] means.  And I didn't read it because your very first sentence was a mega untruth that has been repeated over and over again in spite of the fact that I've shown you all the text itself.


If you didn’t read what I wrote, and then argue back showing a complete lack of understanding as to how the EO went from its original text to WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW, then there’s no point in continuing this debate. You choose to remain ignorant, defiant, and arrogant.

Hoe many years have YOU worked in admissions? Like zero?


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 26, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Not sure what you’re talking about with 24 years, but the point is that blacks have had TWO full generations to move out of poverty via racist admissions policies - and most have - but for those who remain mired in the underclass, it’s in THEM to get out with responsible choices. It’s not whitey’s fault that they keep having babies they can’t afford and then don’t complete their education.
> 
> Once again, for the people in the back, do the following and you will move out of poverty:
> 
> ...



Except - one more time- if they do all those things and STILL score slightly less than a white person, you'd deny them admission into a school.  

Here's a crazy idea.  How about if someone exhibits all the positive things you've said, you cut them a break?


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 26, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> If you didn’t read what I wrote, and then argue back showing a complete lack of understanding as to how the EO went from its original text to WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW, then there’s no point in continuing this debate. You choose to remain ignorant, defiant, and arrogant.
> 
> Hoe many years have YOU worked in admissions? Like zero?



Here's the problem...  the black kids you want to deny got qualifying scores, just not as good of scores as the white kids.  You can't say, "Work hard, stay in school, don't do drugs, don't get pregnant", and then say, "Ha-ha, little Timmy Whitebread got 50 more points on his SAT, he should go first even though he's kind of a slacker who got a tutor."  

If they give black kids a leg up in admissions, it's because to get to that point, they've ALREADY overcome a lot of obstacles to get there.   And little Timmy can go to state, he'll be just fine.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 26, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Well that just goes to show how blindingly ignorant you all are.
> 
> We've nothing to be embarrassed about, because we're not losers.  And not just because *we *say we're not losers but because others say so as well, including some mega corporations like HP, Microsoft, UW, many professional organizations & government agencies, and a slew of colleges and universities.  When you accomplish certain things in life, there are people there to recognize and applaud your accomplishments, especially when they're obtained when the odds are against you or there were obstacles in your way.
> 
> ...


Oh, that’s how bright you are?! You are demonstrating the danger when arrogance meets ignorance.

As far as being born Jewish not being an accomplishment - wow, is your resentment showing - I never said it was. It’s actually an obstacle given how much antisemitism abounds, What IS an accomplishment is being born to poor, uneducated parents who  immigrated here without a penny to escape Jewish persecution, and then live through half your family being killed back in Europe, and despite this, graduating from college along with every single one of your siblings. 

And it’s not just my family. All my parents‘ friends were in the same boat - poor immigrant Jewish parents - and yet ALL managed to move into the middle class. How so? Because Jews value the two things that move one from poverty:

1) You don’t have babies until you are married,
2) You finish school.

Instead of screaming racism at everyone who points out this obvious truth, leaders in the black community should set Jews up as an example of how to move from poverty to middle class, IN ONE GENERATION, and under the weight of horrific antisemitism.


----------



## gipper (Apr 26, 2022)

Blacks have been given preferential treatment in college admissions for decades. I believe this issue has been settled for a long time. No need to debate it.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 26, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> And what did slavery deprive the black people in this country of?  Money.  So even the poorest white people could still earn money, the slaves couldn't.
> 
> What else did slavery deprive black people of?  Education, even learning to read was punishable by whipping.
> 
> ...


Blah, blah, blah. None of that matters when you see how poor people can move here and become middle class in ONE generation. They also started well behind the starting line. You’re perpetrating the myth - the excuse - that whites are ahead of blacks because had all these generations to make money.

And slavery deprived blacks of an education? Well, the impoverished Jews moving here two generations AFTER slavery weren't educated, either. All it took was one generation in this country to make uo the lost ground, and move into the middle class.

You are hurting your own people by refusing to acknowledge that the oath from poverty to the middle class is within themselves, through the own choices, and instead instilling s sense of victimhood.

And shame on you for calling me evil. You libs sure do resort to the nastiest accusations when your argument keeps getting refuted.

1. No babies before marriage
2. Stay in school


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 26, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> They don't both start from the same place.  Remember, the laws passed when this country was founded were crafted to give white people every advantage possible and oftentimes at the expense of black people  while simultaneously relegating black people to 2nd class citizen status via a series of laws and court cases (Jim Crow, Black Codes, etc.)
> 
> The *Black Codes*, sometimes called *Black Laws*, were laws governing the conduct of African Americans (free and freed blacks). In 1832, James Kent wrote that "in most of the United States, there is a distinction in respect to political privileges, between free white persons and free colored persons of African blood; and in no part of the country do the latter, in point of fact, participate equally with the whites, in the exercise of civil and political rights."[1] Although Black Codes existed before the Civil War and many Northern states had them, it was the Southern U.S. states that codified such laws in everyday practice. The best known of them were passed in 1865 and 1866 by Southern states, after the American Civil War, in order to restrict African Americans' freedom, and to compel them to work for low wages.​Black Codes (United States) - Wikipedia​​Jim Crow laws were a collection of state and local statutes that legalized racial segregation. Named after a Black minstrel show character, the laws—which existed for about 100 years, from the post-Civil War era until 1968—were meant to marginalize African Americans by denying them the right to vote, hold jobs, get an education or other opportunities. Those who attempted to defy Jim Crow laws often faced arrest, fines, jail sentences, violence and death.​​The roots of Jim Crow laws began as early as 1865, immediately following the ratification of the 13th Amendment, which abolished slavery in the United States.​​Black codes were strict local and state laws that detailed when, where and how formerly enslaved people could work, and for how much compensation. The codes appeared throughout the South as a legal way to put Black citizens into indentured servitude, to take voting rights away, to control where they lived and how they traveled and to seize children for labor purposes.​​The legal system was stacked against Black citizens, with former Confederate soldiers working as police and judges, making it difficult for African Americans to win court cases and ensuring they were subject to Black codes.​​These codes worked in conjunction with labor camps for the incarcerated, where prisoners were treated as enslaved people. Black offenders typically received longer sentences than their white equals, and because of the grueling work, often did not live out their entire sentence.​Jim Crow Laws​


Blah, blah, blah. You’re still going back to distant generations. Blacks have been favored since the 1970s, via admissions preferences.

You still don’t get it. You have to resort to talking about how blacks had such a bad start generations ago and that explains their high poverty rate NOW, decades later. Your argument falls apart when other persecuted minorities, also with a bad start, moved ahead in ONE generation.

You keep ignoring my question: If historic racism explains why some blacks are still poor, then how do you explain that the majority are not?  I’m pretty sure that the black kids I went to college with 40 years ago are part of the upper-middle class by now. I’m sure their children are as well.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 26, 2022)

gipper said:


> Blacks have been given preferential treatment in college admissions for decades. I believe this issue has been settled for a long time. No need to debate it.


You don’t think it should be debated whether to continue the preferential treatment - and devising ridiculous personality tests (Harvard) and whatnot as a justification for admitting significantly less qualified blacks over much more qualified whites? There’s a case pending before the SCOTUS, and we may finally have come to a point where we can abolish these racist policies.


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## Lisa558 (Apr 26, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Why are you so defensive all of a sudden?


Are you kidding? People get defensive when they are unfairly called racist and other nasty things. I believe your latest was to call me evil.

Why are you getting so nasty all of a sudden? Could it be because all your points are proving false?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2022)

gipper said:


> Blacks have been given preferential treatment in college admissions for decades. I believe this issue has been settled for a long time. No need to debate it.



Correct, it has been used for a long time which means it's not needed now and hasn't been for a while


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> The officers were always found to have been justified in their shooting/killings. UNTIL just a couple of years ago and that's only because of the phones everyone carries on them that captured video of the officers in the act of wrong doing.
> 
> The police ALWAYS got away with this crap.



That's not what it said in the Wiki link.  What it said is they had to review the case repeatedly to see if charges were even appropriate.  Again, innocent until proven guilty.  What the video showed was the officer screaming at the subject repeatedly not to go near his gun. After several warnings, the officer fired in self-defense.  

As a CCW holder in our state, we have strict instructions to keep your hands on top of the steering wheel until instructed otherwise when carrying a firearm so things like this don't happen.  Nearly every single one of these police shootings have one thing in common: the black subject didn't listen to the orders of the police officers.  A problem that has such a simple solution an 8 year old could solve.


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## Lisa558 (Apr 26, 2022)

With all the crying about how blacks are still so far behind because there used to be racism generations ago, why then is the median inheritance from blacks and from Whites basically the same - in the $80k range?

(Also, in the article, you’ll note that the single photo they selected was of an affluent-looking black family.)









						Average Inheritance and 5 Tips for Leaving One to an Heir
					

Knowing the average inheritance can help you determine the amount of money or number of assets to pass along to your heirs.




					www.annuity.org


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> And what did slavery deprive the black people in this country of?  Money.  So even the poorest white people could still earn money, the slaves couldn't.
> 
> What else did slavery deprive black people of?  Education, even learning to read was punishable by whipping.
> 
> ...



People come to this country all the time that were further behind in the race than any black today.  For instance the guy that owns the beverage store I frequent.  Came here from India with little, worked day and night 7 days a week.  Made a lot of sacrifices to save and open his own business.  Because the family were very friendly and gave great service, he was successful.  He parlayed some of those beverage store profits to buy rental property.  I believe he told me he has 8 units or something like that.  About six years ago he bought a hotel outside of our city about 45 minutes away.  His wife left the beverage store to run that, and he spends a day or so out there plus weekends. 

These people are still working seven days a week in spite of their age and great financial success.  They only take two weeks vacation every year.  

As much as I hate the guy, George Soros said it best "If you were born in America, you already started off on second base."  Yes, that includes blacks as well.


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## Lisa558 (Apr 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> People come to this country all the time that were further behind in the race than any black today.  For instance the guy that owns the beverage store I frequent.  Came here from India with little, worked day and night 7 days a week.  Made a lot of sacrifices to save and open his own business.  Because the family were very friendly and gave great service, he was successful.  He parlayed some of those beverage store profits to buy rental property.  I believe he told me he has 8 units or something like that.  About six years ago he bought a hotel outside of our city about 45 minutes away.  His wife left the beverage store to run that, and he spends a day or so out there plus weekends.
> 
> These people are still working seven days a week in spite of their age and great financial success.  They only take two weeks vacation every year.
> 
> As much as I hate the guy, George Soros said it best "If you were born in America, you already started off on second base."  Yes, that includes blacks as well.


Absolutely! There is absolutely no excuse for people to remain in poverty, assuming they were born into it, given the wonderful opportunities this country provides. Just think if it: any kid from a poor family gets thousands of dollars a year, via a Pell Grant, from which he can choose from a variety of vocational training programs or a 2-year A.A. program. There’s no excuse for not availing oneself of this gift from American taxpayers.

And yes, that includes blacks.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2022)

monkrules said:


> This topic always ends up being a circular argument. Bleeding heart libs work tirelessly to lower standards across the board: in education, business, and government.
> 
> And they, And BLM whiners twist themselves into pretzels as they concoct endless nonsensical excuses for the lowered standards.
> 
> ...



We all have challenges in life, different ones perhaps, but challenges. 

When I find a challenge of my own I thought impossible to solve, I ask myself "If they could put another person in my body, would they be able to figure out how to solve this problem?"  In most cases the answer is yes.  To me a problem is a challenge that can't be won under any circumstance.


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## Vegasgiants (Apr 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> People come to this country all the time that were further behind in the race than any black today.  For instance the guy that owns the beverage store I frequent.  Came here from India with little, worked day and night 7 days a week.  Made a lot of sacrifices to save and open his own business.  Because the family were very friendly and gave great service, he was successful.  He parlayed some of those beverage store profits to buy rental property.  I believe he told me he has 8 units or something like that.  About six years ago he bought a hotel outside of our city about 45 minutes away.  His wife left the beverage store to run that, and he spends a day or so out there plus weekends.
> 
> These people are still working seven days a week in spite of their age and great financial success.  They only take two weeks vacation every year.
> 
> As much as I hate the guy, George Soros said it best "If you were born in America, you already started off on second base."  Yes, that includes blacks as well.


If you were born white  in America, you already started off on second base."


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Absolutely! There is absolutely no excuse for people to remain in poverty, assuming they were born into it, given the wonderful opportunities this country provides. Just think if it: any kid from a poor family gets thousands of dollars a year, via a Pell Grant, from which he can choose from a variety of vocational training programs or a 2-year A.A. program. There’s no excuse for not availing oneself of this gift from American taxpayers.
> 
> And yes, that includes blacks.



Actually it's part of the problem.  If a  child is raised watching his mother or parents bust their ass all the time, they come to the understanding they don't want to live that way.  Stay in school, don't have children when you're a child yourself, stay away from drugs and crime and make something of yourself.  However is a child is raised in a suburban house, the mother doesn't do much of anything, you eat better than working people, you still have a big screen, cable television, smart phones, what's the point of working for a better life?  You have a pretty good life already.


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## JoeMoma (Apr 26, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> If you were born white  in America, you already started off on second base."


Some of us were luckier with the birth lottery than others, and it's not all about color.  A kid  born to rich black parents may get to start with runs already scored compared to a kid born to poor white parents who have substance abuse problem.


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## Vegasgiants (Apr 26, 2022)

JoeMoma said:


> Some of us were luckier with the birth lottery than others, and it's not all about color.  A kid  born to rich black parents may get to start with runs already scored compared to a kid born to poor white parents who have substance abuse problem.


In general my point is true


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## Lisa558 (Apr 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Actually it's part of the problem.  If a  child is raised watching his mother or parents bust their ass all the time, they come to the understanding they don't want to live that way.  Stay in school, don't have children when you're a child yourself, stay away from drugs and crime and make something of yourself.  However is a child is raised in a suburban house, the mother doesn't do much of anything, you eat better than working people, you still have a big screen, cable television, smart phones, what's the point of working for a better life?  You have a pretty good life already.


I disagree with you here, Ray.

That’s not what happens in real life. How else would you explain kids making the same mistakes as their parents - another generation of out of wedlock babies, and no schooling. I know someone who is struggling, and she had her first baby as a teen, unmarried. Her mother had her when SHE was 16. And her mother before her, the grandmother, had her mother when she was only 14! You would think they would learn, but no.

Then you take a suburban home, where the Mom stayed home. (That was my home.) But that was LAST generation, where a college-educated husband could buy a home for his family on one income. By the time I came up, I knew that I would need to work to provide a nice life, either on my own, or, if married, as part of a team. I live in a very nice neighborhood, and ALL mothers have jobs.

Right now, I am in a row of 8 townhouses, and there is one other retired couple besides me. By 8:00 a.m, the driveways are EMPTY, except for that one retired couple. Everyone understands that adults have jobs (other than young mothers temporarily dropping out of the work force with young kids).


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2022)

JoeMoma said:


> Some of us were luckier with the birth lottery than others, and it's not all about color.  A kid  born to rich black parents may get to start with runs already scored compared to a kid born to poor white parents who have substance abuse problem.



People think money is the entire issue.  Having money is a responsibility not all are prepared for.  I've been to companies where the owner got too old and sick to run the company, or otherwise died and left it to his children, and they ran it right into the ground.  There are stories out there of lottery winners where their dream turned into their worst nightmare.  They ended up with serious tax problems, loss of friends and family, and ended up more broke than before they hit.


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## Lisa558 (Apr 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> People think money is the entire issue.  Having money is a responsibility not all are prepared for.  I've been to companies where the owner got too old and sick to run the company, or otherwise died and left it to his children, and they ran it right into the ground.  There are stories out there of lottery winners where their dream turned into their worst nightmare.  They ended up with serious tax problems, loss of friends and family, and ended up more broke than before they hit.


From shirtsleeve to shirtsleeve in three generations. Often proves true.


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## JoeMoma (Apr 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> People think money is the entire issue.  Having money is a responsibility not all are prepared for.  I've been to companies where the owner got too old and sick to run the company, or otherwise died and left it to his children, and they ran it right into the ground.  There are stories out there of lottery winners where their dream turned into their worst nightmare.  They ended up with serious tax problems, loss of friends and family, and ended up more broke than before they hit.


You are exactly right, money  isn't the entire issue.   No one thing is the entire issue.  The thing is we all have to play the cards that are dealt us and to paraphrase Kenny Rogers, every hand is a winner and every hand is a looser.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I disagree with you here, Ray.
> 
> That’s not what happens in real life. How else would you explain kids making the same mistakes as their parents - another generation of out of wedlock babies, and no schooling. I know someone who is struggling, and she had her first baby as a teen, unmarried. Her mother had her when SHE was 16. And her mother before her, the grandmother, had her mother when she was only 14! You would think they would learn, but no.
> 
> ...



In my opinion the apple usually doesn't fall far from the tree.  In a working family environment kids learn what it takes to survive in this world of ours.  If they grew up on government goodies that's what they learned to survive.  I think those kids are at a disadvantage because that's how they were brought up.  But when kids see mom and pop busting their ass 50 hours a week, they try to do better for themselves.  

People of our age usually grew up in a two-parent household.  Our parents were robbed of education because if their parents passed away while they were young, they had to quit school to support the family like my father did.  Some quit school anyway because their parents didn't make enough money.  

For a man with only a 9th grade education, my father did pretty good for himself.  He was able to raise a family of 5, retired early, and is still collecting his pension at the age of 91.  Wealthy?  Far from it.  My sister went to college and she makes nearly 6 figures a year.  I was more a chip off the old block and found a blue collar career in driving, and made real estate investments which are paying off now that I'm disabled. 

If we were raised in a Section 8 house in the suburbs by my mother only, I don't think my sister and I would have chosen the paths we did.  We would have grown up thinking there is no sense in working or trying to better yourself.  Just too much work.  It's better to take it easy like mom did.


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## JoeMoma (Apr 26, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Then you take a suburban home, where the Mom stayed home. (That was my home.) But that was LAST generation, where a college-educated husband could buy a home for his family on one income. By the time I came up, I knew that I would need to work to provide a nice life, either on my own, or, if married, as part of a team. I live in a very nice neighborhood, and ALL mothers have jobs.


Part of the reason that one working spouse cannot buy a home for the family on one income is that people are buying much larger homes than they used to buy (like in the 50s, 60s and 70s).  When I was a kid, my brother and I shared a bedroom and the whole family, Mom, Dad, my brother and I, shared 1 bathroom.


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## Lisa558 (Apr 26, 2022)

JoeMoma said:


> Part of the reason that one working spouse cannot buy a home for the family on one income is that people are buying much larger homes than they used to buy (like in the 50s, 60s and 70s).  When I was a kid, my brother and I shared a bedroom and the whole family, Mom, Dad, my brother and I, shared 1 bathroom.


Yup. The whole definition of what is considered a decent lifestyle has escalated to the point requiring both spouses to work.

My family of four (during childhood) also shared one bathroom, and that was considered normal, in an 1100 square foot house. There was one car. Dinner out was maybe once a month at the Hot Shoppes cafeteria, or an inexpensive deli, and a REAL restaurant was reserved for birthdays, and even then, they were inexpensive. Vacation was a one-week rental apartment at the beach. And we all felt we were living a nice, middle class life!

Now people need a separate bedroom for each child, a separate master suite with a bathroom just for the parents, a guest room, in a 3000 s house. There are at least two cars per family. Dinner out is a weekly thing, at nice seafood or steak restaurants. Vacation consists of a a few days in Disneyworld (booooooo…..) over spring break, a ski trip in winter, and a trip out West  (or wherever) over summer. Anything less, and people think they’re not living a middle class life.


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## AZrailwhale (Apr 26, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> They don't both start from the same place.  Remember, the laws passed when this country was founded were crafted to give white people every advantage possible and oftentimes at the expense of black people  while simultaneously relegating black people to 2nd class citizen status via a series of laws and court cases (Jim Crow, Black Codes, etc.)
> 
> The *Black Codes*, sometimes called *Black Laws*, were laws governing the conduct of African Americans (free and freed blacks). In 1832, James Kent wrote that "in most of the United States, there is a distinction in respect to political privileges, between free white persons and free colored persons of African blood; and in no part of the country do the latter, in point of fact, participate equally with the whites, in the exercise of civil and political rights."[1] Although Black Codes existed before the Civil War and many Northern states had them, it was the Southern U.S. states that codified such laws in everyday practice. The best known of them were passed in 1865 and 1866 by Southern states, after the American Civil War, in order to restrict African Americans' freedom, and to compel them to work for low wages.​Black Codes (United States) - Wikipedia​​Jim Crow laws were a collection of state and local statutes that legalized racial segregation. Named after a Black minstrel show character, the laws—which existed for about 100 years, from the post-Civil War era until 1968—were meant to marginalize African Americans by denying them the right to vote, hold jobs, get an education or other opportunities. Those who attempted to defy Jim Crow laws often faced arrest, fines, jail sentences, violence and death.​​The roots of Jim Crow laws began as early as 1865, immediately following the ratification of the 13th Amendment, which abolished slavery in the United States.​​Black codes were strict local and state laws that detailed when, where and how formerly enslaved people could work, and for how much compensation. The codes appeared throughout the South as a legal way to put Black citizens into indentured servitude, to take voting rights away, to control where they lived and how they traveled and to seize children for labor purposes.​​The legal system was stacked against Black citizens, with former Confederate soldiers working as police and judges, making it difficult for African Americans to win court cases and ensuring they were subject to Black codes.​​These codes worked in conjunction with labor camps for the incarcerated, where prisoners were treated as enslaved people. Black offenders typically received longer sentences than their white equals, and because of the grueling work, often did not live out their entire sentence.​Jim Crow Laws​


No one denies that Black Americans were discriminated against in the past in the South.  But the South is a small part of the USA. When desegregation FINALLY came along, it was the North and mostly northern Whites supporting it and holding the government's feet to the fire to enforce the new laws.  If the majority of Whites didn't want Blacks to have a fair chance nothing would have changed.  Almost all Whites today want ALL minorities to be treated equally with the majority, not just Blacks, but Native Americans, Latinos, Asians and every other racial, ethnic or religious group. You, as an individual, are owed nothing for things that didn't happen to you.  The past is dead and gone.  I have never discriminated against anyone, so it's unfair and stupid for you to try to hold me responsible for something someone else's great grandparents did to your great grandparents.  All people like you, Paul and IM2 do is create hostility in people who are otherwise inclined to help Black Americans out of a sense of innate fairness.  Your words and actions are counterproductive as long as you are a minority.  If you were the 86% of the population instead of the 13% you could get away with treating other races like bad puppies that crapped in the house.  But you aren't and your words and actions are quickly eroding the support you have among the majority of White Americans.


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## AZrailwhale (Apr 26, 2022)

JoeMoma said:


> Part of the reason that one working spouse cannot buy a home for the family on one income is that people are buying much larger homes than they used to buy (like in the 50s, 60s and 70s).  When I was a kid, my brother and I shared a bedroom and the whole family, Mom, Dad, my brother and I, shared 1 bathroom.


That's part of it, but the larger part is the government at all levels is taking far more in taxes than in our parent's day.  If you add up the taxes you pay NOT counting sales tax, the government is taking more than half your gross income.  Yes, some of that is Social Security and Medicare which will come back to you, but the majority just goes into government coffers. Next time you buy gas, take a look at the sticker on the pump that shows how much of that price per gallon is taxes, you will be shocked.


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## Lisa558 (Apr 26, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> No one denies that Black Americans were discriminated against in the past in the South.  But the South is a small part of the USA. When desegregation FINALLY came along, it was the North and mostly northern Whites supporting it and holding the government's feet to the fire to enforce the new laws.  If the majority of Whites didn't want Blacks to have a fair chance nothing would have changed.  Almost all Whites today want ALL minorities to be treated equally with the majority, not just Blacks, but Native Americans, Latinos, Asians and every other racial, ethnic or religious group. You, as an individual, are owed nothing for things that didn't happen to you.  The past is dead and gone.  I have never discriminated against anyone, so it's unfair and stupid for you to try to hold me responsible for something someone else's great grandparents did to your great grandparents.  All people like you, Paul and IM2 do is create hostility in people who are otherwise inclined to help Black Americans out of a sense of innate fairness.  Your words and actions are counterproductive as long as you are a minority.  If you were the 86% of the population instead of the 13% you could get away with treating other races like bad puppies that crapped in the house.  But you aren't and your words and actions are quickly eroding the support you have among the majority of White Americans.


That’s an excellent point. Blacks need support from whites, and thus far, they’ve gotten plenty - particularly in regard to Affirmative Action, which was proposed and put into actions thanks to the efforts of whites. This demonization of whites who point out choices that are causing the black underclass to remain stuck in poverty not only fails to give blacks the confidence to know that they themselves have the power to move beyond it, but it builds anger among whites who are being unfairly blamed for it.

The worst example in recent time that I can think of is when the BLM leader out of NY said that if whites don’t give blacks what they “demand,” they will burn the whole system down. As you point out, they are a minority in this country, and they do more harm than good when they demand that the majority bow to their demands.

I have proposed a solution to the current race-based favoritism in admissions: make it a combination of need and merit, and have students competing within their own cohort (thereby eliminating the advantage that comes from a prosperous school district): the top 5% of each high school in the country, who meets SES guidelines, gets a fully paid ride to the state university. For this suggestion, because it does not benefit blacks exclusively, I have been called racist.

In summary, you’re correct: blacks like Vine, Paul, and IM2 are doing the black community harm by vilifying whites, and making demands of them for which they have no right. It just builds hostility among the very people - the majority of the country - from whom they need support.


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## IM2 (Apr 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I didn't know who he was so I looked it up.  As I stated earlier, the officer was held responsible,  charged, but found not guilty by a jury of his peers.  One juror gave this statement to the media:
> 
> *What we were looking at was some pretty obscure things to a lot of people, like culpable negligence. You think you might know what it means: It's negligent, but maybe pretty bad negligence. Well, it's gross negligence with an element of recklessness ... We had the law in front of us so we could break it down.
> 
> ...


Funny how you don't use per capita here. These are more bullshit excuses. This is not open to debate. The root cause of the problems blacks face is white racism. Period.

_“It would neither be true or honest to say that the Negros problem is what it is because he is innately inferior or because he is basically lazy and listless or because he has not lifted himself by his own bootstraps. To find the origins of the Negro problem we must turn to the white man’s problem.”

-_*Rev. Martin Luther King Jr*


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## IM2 (Apr 26, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> That's part of it, but the larger part is the government at all levels is taking far more in taxes than in our parent's day.  If you add up the taxes you pay NOT counting sales tax, the government is taking more than half your gross income.  Yes, some of that is Social Security and Medicare which will come back to you, but the majority just goes into government coffers. Next time you buy gas, take a look at the sticker on the pump that shows how much of that price per gallon is taxes, you will be shocked.


Bullshit. The government took more taxes way back when.


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## IM2 (Apr 26, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> That’s an excellent point. Blacks need support from whites, and thus far, they’ve gotten plenty - particularly in regard to Affirmative Action, which was proposed and put into actions thanks to the efforts of whites. This demonization of whites who point out choices that are causing the black underclass to remain stuck in poverty not only fails to give blacks the confidence to know that they themselves have the power to move beyond it, but it builds anger among whites who are being unfairly blamed for it.
> 
> The worst example in recent time that I can think of is when the BLM leader out of NY said that if whites don’t give blacks what they “demand,” they will burn the whole system down. As you point out, they are a minority in this country, and they do more harm than good when they demand that the majority bow to their demands.
> 
> ...


More white racist bullshit.

Whites are where they are off our backs. Literally starting with slavery.

On February 25th, 1913, the 16th Amendment of the United States Constitution was ratified. This amendment created the income tax. Today, every American must pay income tax unless their income is below a certain level. Since 1913 blacks have paid federal income taxes to help finance programs and policies that have excluded us. Most states began income taxes during Jim Crow Apartheid, and working blacks paid income taxes that helped states implement policies enforcing apartheid. 

More than 50 billion dollars (based on 1930’s value) was spent on The New Deal and Servicemen's Readjustment Act. Both programs are credited with providing a significant boost to wealth accumulation in America. Both policies excluded vast numbers of blacks who worked and paid taxes. Federal housing policies kept blacks segregated in poorly built or maintained property using tax dollars working blacks paid. Education, paid for by tax dollars blacks pay into the system, continues underfunding schools in black neighborhoods. Blacks pay taxes to fund law enforcement who kill blacks at three times our population, even as whites are more than double the arrests. Tax money working blacks pay into the system allocated for social services or community development are not equally invested in organizations, services, or policies that would increase positive outcomes in black communities. I have seen this personally.

So again we are reading psychosis riddled babble from a white female, the number one group favored by affirmative action.


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## IM2 (Apr 26, 2022)

ALL RISE!

This afternoons lesson is titled:

*I'm Jewish, We've Had it as Hard As Blacks-NOT!*

Negroes Are Anti-Semitic Because They're Anti-White
April 9, 1967​By JAMES BALDWIN​


hen we were growing up in Harlem our demoralizing series of landlords were Jewish, and we hated them. We hated them because they were terrible landlords, and did not take care of the building. A coat of paint, a broken window, a stopped sink, a stopped toilet, a sagging floor, a broken ceiling, a dangerous stairwell, the question of garbage disposal, the question of heat and cold, of roaches and rats--all questions of life and death for the poor, and especially for those with children--we had to cope with all of these as best we could. Our parents were lashed to futureless jobs, in order to pay the outrageous rent. We knew that the landlord treated us this way only because we were colored, and he knew that we could not move out.

The grocer was a Jew, and being in debt to him was very much like being in debt to the company store. The butcher was a Jew and, yes, we certainly paid more for bad cuts of meat than other New York citizens, and we very often carried insults home, along with the meat. We bought our clothes from a Jew and, sometimes, our secondhand shoes, and the pawnbroker was a Jew--perhaps we hated him most of all. The merchants along 125th Street were Jewish--at least many of them were; I don't know if Grant's or Woolworth's are Jewish names--and I well remember that it was only after the Harlem riot of 1935 that Negroes were allowed to earn a little money in some of the stores where they spent so much.

Not all of these white people were cruel--on the contrary, I remember some who were certainly as thoughtful as the bleak circumstances allowed--but all of them were exploiting us, and that was why we hated them.

The root of anti-Semitism among Negroes is, ironically, the relationship of colored peoples--all over the globe--to the Christian world. This is a fact which may be difficult to grasp, not only for the ghetto's most blasted and embittered inhabitants, but also for many Jews, to say nothing of many Christians. But it is a fact, and it will not ameliorated--in fact, it can only be aggravated--by the adoption, on the part of colored people now, of the most devastating of the Christian vices.

Of course, it is true, and I am not so naive as not to know it, that many Jews despise Negroes, even as their Aryan brothers do. (There are also Jews who despise Jews, even as their Aryan brothers do.) It is true that many Jews use, shamelessly, the slaughter of the 6,000,000 by the Third Reich as proof that they cannot be bigots--or in the hope of not being held responsible for their bigotry. It is galling to be told by a Jew whom you know to be exploiting you that he cannot possibly be doing what you know he is doing because he is a Jew. It is bitter to watch the Jewish storekeeper locking up his store for the night, and going home. Going, with _your_ money in his pocket, to a clean neighborhood, miles from you, which you will not be allowed to enter. Nor can it help the relationship between most Negroes and most Jews when part of this money is donated to civil rights. In the light of what is now known as the white backlash, this money can be looked on as conscience money merely, as money given to keep the Negro happy in his place, and out of white neighborhoods.

One does not wish, in short, to be told by an American Jew that his suffering is as great as the American Negro's suffering. It isn't, and one knows that it isn't from the very tone in which he assures you that it is.





__





						Negroes Are Anti-Semitic Because They're Anti-White
					





					archive.nytimes.com


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2022)

IM2 said:


> More white racist bullshit.
> 
> Whites are where they are off our backs. Literally starting with slavery.
> 
> ...



Even today nearly half of Americans pay no actual income tax.  How did blacks pay it back then?  Schools are mostly funded by local taxes, and blacks can vote to increase taxes as high as they want for their schools.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Funny how you don't use per capita here. These are more bullshit excuses. This is not open to debate. The root cause of the problems blacks face is white racism. Period.
> 
> _“It would neither be true or honest to say that the Negros problem is what it is because he is innately inferior or because he is basically lazy and listless or because he has not lifted himself by his own bootstraps. To find the origins of the Negro problem we must turn to the white man’s problem.”
> 
> -_*Rev. Martin Luther King Jr*



And he was correct.........back in the mid 60's.  But you don't live in the mid 60's today.  You live in 2022.  The study I posted did use per capita.  If you actually read it you'd know that.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 26, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Bullshit. The government took more taxes way back when.


Bullshit back to you.  The income tax RATE was higher, but there were so many deductions only idiots paid anything near the posted rates.  State taxes were lower, property taxes were lower sales taxes were lower, shall I go on?


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 26, 2022)

Another point about discussion on the subject of Affirmative Action.  

Karen... I mean Lisa558 goes on all day about the kids who don't finish high school, and get pregnant as teens. But she is the first one who would reject the black kid who did all that and got a 3.2 GPA compared to a white kid with a 3.6 GPA.  

And to be fair, that kid who got the 3.2 GPA is often from a middle class family in the suburbs.  So why cut them a break over let's say the poor white kid from the trailer park.  

The answer is obvious... because equality often comes top down, not bottom up.  Those elite schools give us the occupants of the C-suites.  Maybe it shouldn't be, but it is.  If those places remain old boys clubs, then we aren't going to see progress.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Even today nearly half of Americans pay no actual income tax.  How did blacks pay it back then?  Schools are mostly funded by local taxes, and blacks can vote to increase taxes as high as they want for their schools.


They paid it like everyone else paid. Just face the truth, I'm done arguing about this. I'm black and I'm telling you how things are for black. If you don't like it, so what?


----------



## IM2 (Apr 26, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Bullshit back to you.  The income tax RATE was higher, but there were so many deductions only idiots paid anything near the posted rates.  State taxes were lower, property taxes were lower sales taxes were lower, shall I go on?


Blah. Blah, and blah.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> And he was correct.........back in the mid 60's.  But you don't live in the mid 60's today.  You live in 2022.  The study I posted did use per capita.  If you actually read it you'd know that.


It is correct now.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Even today nearly half of Americans pay no actual income tax. How did blacks pay it back then? Schools are mostly funded by local taxes, and blacks can vote to increase taxes as high as they want for their schools.



Lying again, Welfare Ray?   When you say, "Half of Americans don't pay income taxes", you have to include CHILDREN and RETIRED PEOPLE to get to that number.   Also, most Americans do pay a STATE income tax 

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/26506/901527-Five-Myths-About-the-Percent.pdf

Politicians and commentators often talk about those who don't pay income taxes as though they're in a special club with lifetime membership. In fact, it's a highly diverse group, some of whom move in and out from year to year. When they first join the workforce, for example, young people may not earn enough to pay federal income taxes. The same is true for many of the temporarily unemployed, working parents and entrepreneurs whose businesses experience a loss. But most of these people look forward to the day, perhaps in just a year or two, when their incomes will rise and they will join or rejoin the 53 percent of Americans who do pay federal income taxes. The reverse is true for many senior citizens: They may pay no federal income tax in retirement, but most did during their working years.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> And he was correct.........back in the mid 60's. But you don't live in the mid 60's today. You live in 2022. The study I posted did use per capita. If you actually read it you'd know that.



Some things have improved since the 1960's, others have not.


----------



## Indeependent (Apr 26, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Another point about discussion on the subject of Affirmative Action.
> 
> Karen... I mean Lisa558 goes on all day about the kids who don't finish high school, and get pregnant as teens. But she is the first one who would reject the black kid who did all that and got a 3.2 GPA compared to a white kid with a 3.6 GPA.
> 
> ...


Employers consider a person’s personal lack of judgement, especially in high level jobs.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 26, 2022)

IM2 said:


> More white racist bullshit.
> 
> Whites are where they are off our backs. Literally starting with slavery.
> 
> ...


The income levels for paying income tax were so high that only the very rich paid income taxes.  Here's the level.
"The Revenue Act of 1913 imposed a one percent tax on incomes* above $3,000*, with a top tax rate of six percent on those earning more than $500,000 per year. Approximately three percent of the population was subject to the income tax."  The MEDIAN income in 1913 was $2,267.00.  Based upon your posts I doubt that very many Black Americans made over the median income, so damned few paid a dime in income taxes.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2022)

IM2 said:


> It is correct now.



Yes, we know.  

Blacks are poor.  It has nothing to do with drugs that preclude them from passing a drug test for better paying jobs.  It has nothing to do with the fact 25% of black teen girls having babies.  It has nothing to do with 33% of black males having a criminal record.  It has nothing to do with 75% of black male children that can't read at state levels.  All your failures have to do with white racism.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2022)

IM2 said:


> They paid it like everyone else paid. Just face the truth, I'm done arguing about this. I'm black and I'm telling you how things are for black. If you don't like it, so what?



I don't like it or dislike it.  It doesn't affect me one way or the other.  We agree on something here.  Blacks pay for their own schools like whites pay for their own schools.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 26, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> And he was correct.........back in the mid 60's.  But you don't live in the mid 60's today.  You live in 2022.  The study I posted did use per capita.  If you actually read it you'd know that.


Didn’t read what the racist black wrote, but he obviously had to go back 60 years to show there WAS racism. Since that time, we’ve had programs favoring blacks, and most are not in poverty - due to their taking advantage of America’s opportunities,

What exactly do you think is IM2’s goal in blaming whites for the 25% black poverty rate resulting from their own irresponsible and/or unwise choices - namely OOW babies and failure to complete education?

Answer: they are pushing this false narrative for reparations.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 26, 2022)

Dang those Jews! They had to come here impoverished and uneducated to escape European antisemitism, settle into cold-water city tenements, lose their families to Hitler, still face Jew-hate here in America (”we don’t want those Jew refugees…..send them back to Hitler”), and despite all this, a generation later their kids are all college graduates, and living out in the suburbs with a house of their own.

How DARE they show that people can experience horrible bigotry and recover in a single generation, and despite anti-Jew quotas keeping them from the best colleges? They’re making blacks look bad! Why couldn’t they still have a big chunk of them living in the ghetto, to prove that bigotry holds one down for generations? Some nerve they have being successful!

And the Asians aren’t much better. They also come here with nothing, set up a little shop, and a generation later - their kids all college graduates too! It’s so bad that Harvard is design personality tests to keep them out.


----------



## DGS49 (Apr 26, 2022)

57% of U.S. households paid no federal income tax last year as Covid took a toll, study says
					

More than half of Americans paid no federal income tax last year due to Covid-relief funds, tax credits and stimulus, according to a new report.




					www.cnbc.com
				




Tell me again how Blacks are paying their fair share in Federal Income taxes.

How much are they paying in real estate taxes, which is where school funding in primarily based?  Not much, I'd wager.  And "urban" schools spend more per student than others, while getting deplorable results, academically speaking.

Losers blame others for their failures in life.  Always have; always will.  Invariably, others from the same circumstances succeeded.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 26, 2022)

Indeependent said:


> Employers consider a person’s personal lack of judgement, especially in high level jobs.



Um, what did that have to do with my point?  

Frankly, what I see in high level jobs are a bunch of good old boys who couldn't find their ass with both hands and a flashlight. 



Lisa558 said:


> Dang those Jews! They had to come here impoverished and uneducated to escape European antisemitism, settle into cold-water city tenements, lose their families to Hitler, still face Jew-hate here in America (”we don’t want those Jew refugees…..send them back to Hitler”), and despite all this, a generation later their kids are all college graduates, and living out in the suburbs with a house of their own.



Yes, you are doing what you do best....wearing out your welcome.  you completely ignore IM's that what often antagonizes people of color is the bad behavior of Jewish slumlords. 




Lisa558 said:


> And the Asians aren’t much better. They also come here with nothing, set up a little shop, and a generation later - their kids all college graduates too! It’s so bad that Harvard is design personality tests to keep them out.



Now, here's the thing, Karen,  you treat "College Education" as a big thing.   Now, when I graduated from college in 1985, I was the first member of my family to do so.  Not bad, a mere 60 years after my grandparents and my dad got off the boat.  Only 18% of the population had a bachelor degree back then. 

But today... meh...  not so much.  You need a bachelor degree to get even an entry level job, and 33% of the population has one.  





More to the point, blacks have done a better job of increasing their college numbers since 1993.  While white enrollment in college has only increased 12% since 1993, black enrollment has increased by 72%.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 26, 2022)

The guy who never graduated college, lives in a slum and collects a government check gets to lecture us on "failure" again. 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yes, we know.
> 
> Blacks are poor. It has nothing to do with drugs that preclude them from passing a drug test for better paying jobs. It has nothing to do with the fact 25% of black teen girls having babies. It has nothing to do with 33% of black males having a criminal record. It has nothing to do with 75% of black male children that can't read at state levels. All your failures have to do with white racism.



again, we've pointed out to you that our racist justice system treats whites and blacks differently...  time and again.  Which is why Rush Limbaugh didn't die in a jail cell. 

But you've had all the advantages of being white in this society, and you are still living next to "those people".


----------



## monkrules (Apr 26, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> That’s an excellent point. Blacks need support from whites, and thus far, they’ve gotten plenty - particularly in regard to Affirmative Action, which was proposed and put into actions thanks to the efforts of whites. This demonization of whites who point out choices that are causing the black underclass to remain stuck in poverty not only fails to give blacks the confidence to know that they themselves have the power to move beyond it, but it builds anger among whites who are being unfairly blamed for it.
> 
> The worst example in recent time that I can think of is when the BLM leader out of NY said that if whites don’t give blacks what they “demand,” they will burn the whole system down. As you point out, they are a minority in this country, and they do more harm than good when they demand that the majority bow to their demands.
> 
> ...


Terrific post Lisa! Wish I could give it 10 "Love" ratings.

Some of the more radical BLM members and supporters are becoming absolutely laughable with the extremist nonsense they spout. Sadly, some people still take them seriously.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 26, 2022)

monkrules said:


> Terrific post Lisa! Wish I could give it 10 "Love" ratings.
> 
> Some of the more radical BLM members and supporters are becoming absolutely laughable with the extremist nonsense they spout. Sadly, some people still take them seriously.


Thank you! Hugs and kisses back at ya!

Yes, the BLM radicals and overtly angry and racist blacks, a few of whom have graced these pages, are setting race relations back 60 years with their mishegas.


----------



## monkrules (Apr 26, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Didn’t read what the racist black wrote, but he obviously had to go back 60 years to show there WAS racism. Since that time, we’ve had programs favoring blacks, and most are not in poverty - due to their taking advantage of America’s opportunities,
> 
> What exactly do you think is IM2’s goal in blaming whites for the 25% black poverty rate resulting from their own irresponsible and/or unwise choices - namely OOW babies and failure to complete education?
> 
> Answer: they are pushing this false narrative for reparations.



Yep. Sadly, many blacks live *only* to whine for more free shit.

Self-reliance -earn your own way - are concepts shunned by too many of these *(yes,these)* folks.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 26, 2022)

monkrules said:


> Yep. Sadly, many blacks live *only* to whine for more free shit.
> 
> Self-reliance -earn your own way - are concepts shunned by too many of these *(yes,these)* folks.


I‘ve said it before and I’ll say it again: what this country is missing is good old-fashioned SHAME. There SHOULD be shame in being unable to support yourself and your family, due largely to one’s own poor decisions. Instead, people proudly beam as they tell how they got in a special program that pays the rent for them.

There‘s one poster here who is especially shameful. (A white leftist.) He brags that although he was a 4.0 undergrad and earned an MBA, he INTENTIONALLY worked as little as possible - to earn as little as possible - so he could qualify all his six kids for welfare! He said his wife did not work at all, and he the minimal. And he brags about it!


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I‘ve said it before and I’ll say it again: what this country is missing is good old-fashioned SHAME. There SHOULD be shame in being unable to support yourself and your family, due largely to one’s own poor decisions. Instead, people proudly beam as they tell how they got in a special program that pays the rent for them.
> 
> There‘s one poster here who is especially shameful. (A white leftist.) He brags that although he was a 4.0 undergrad and earned an MBA, he INTENTIONALLY worked as little as possible - to earn as little as possible - so he could qualify all his six kids for welfare! He said his wife did not work at all, and he the minimal. And he brags about it!



Absolutely.  People have always used food stamps to some degree, but most were embarrassed about it.  I heard of some people going to the grocery store at night when nobody was there.  

Today they whip out that SNAP'S card like an American Express.  If there are any questions on a purchase, they just laugh it off proudly holding their SNAP's card the entire time.  Then they proudly leave the line after checking out and go to the head cashier to buy their cigarettes and lottery tickets.  No shame whatsoever.


----------



## monkrules (Apr 26, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I‘ve said it before and I’ll say it again: what this country is missing is good old-fashioned SHAME. There SHOULD be shame in being unable to support yourself and your family, due largely to one’s own poor decisions. Instead, people proudly beam as they tell how they got in a special program that pays the rent for them.
> 
> There‘s one poster here who is especially shameful. (A white leftist.) He brags that although he was a 4.0 undergrad and earned an MBA, he INTENTIONALLY worked as little as possible - to earn as little as possible - so he could qualify all his six kids for welfare! He said his wife did not work at all, and he the minimal. And he brags about it!


No shame is right!

A black woman was interviewed on the nightly television news some time ago.

Under some new Section 8 program, the government had moved her, and her kids (four, if I remember right) into a brand new 3-bedroom home in a fine suburban development.

The pig was gushing with happiness, and said, "I didn't think I would ever make it to such a high place..." The stupid bitch talked as though she had *EARNED* the home. As if she were paying her own fucking rent - instead of living on handouts taxpaying Americans are FORCED to provide for her lazy, stinking, worthless ass.

That was one of the most disgusting reports I've ever seen. I'll never be able to forget that clueless piece of dogshit.

As you said, lots of these fools have no sense of shame. I doubt most of them even know the meaning of the word. What a fucking total waste of money.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 26, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Didn’t read what the racist black wrote, but he obviously had to go back 60 years to show there WAS racism. Since that time, we’ve had programs favoring blacks, and most are not in poverty - due to their taking advantage of America’s opportunities,
> 
> What exactly do you think is IM2’s goal in blaming whites for the 25% black poverty rate resulting from their own irresponsible and/or unwise choices - namely OOW babies and failure to complete education?
> 
> Answer: they are pushing this false narrative for reparations.



Last I looked it was 18%.  In any case one doesn't have to be considered legally poor to be poor.  For instance nationwide, you are considered poor if you make 12K  a year.  If you make 15K a year, you're technically not poor, but you sure as hell are not doing very well, and that's what we're really talking about here.  









						2021 Poverty Guidelines
					

U.S. Federal Poverty Guidelines Used to Determine Financial Eligibility for Certain Federal Programs [Federal Register Notice, February 1, 2021 - Full text] [Computations for the 2021 Poverty Guidelines] There are two slightly different versions of the federal poverty measure:




					aspe.hhs.gov
				




Cost of living varies as well.  Here if you are making 20 bucks an hour, you can live in a decent apartment or even able to buy a house.  In NYC or NJ, you're living under a bridge at 20 bucks an hour.  

It's easy to say it's somebody else's fault.  It takes a lot of work when you come to terms it's your own fault and need to make life adjustments.  It takes admitting your mistakes, making sacrifices to change your situation, get off the dope if that's what's been  holding you back, maybe go back and finish high school.  It's not easy.  Easy is saying none of my problems are my doing. 

To be honest, in spite of the constant hate and racist accusations, I really want to see people like IM2 and SuperBadBreath do better.  I'd like to see them pass the word to their brothers and sisters who also fell for leftist brainwashing.  For instance I can stop all police shootings of black people this minute:  Just do whatever a police officer instructs you to do, and nobody gets hurt.  But that's a lot of work; actually being black and having the balls to offer this pragmatic and successful solutions to other people.  It's more fun to riot, destroy public and private property, steal whatever your arms can hold.  Forget about what the laws say, act on what you personally think the problem is.


----------



## monkrules (Apr 26, 2022)

"All my problems were caused by somebody else!!" Better believe it...

That should be BLM and the entire black movement's official slogan. Catchy, ain't it?

Sharpton, Jackson, and all the other worthless race hustlers will love it.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 27, 2022)

monkrules said:


> Terrific post Lisa! Wish I could give it 10 "Love" ratings.



I liked their old system better.  They used to have a "winner" rating.  When they went to this new system they got rid of it.


----------



## monkrules (Apr 27, 2022)

Here's a wonderful example of why our country is going down the shitter. The woman in question is hispanic, but loads of black women are just as stupid, and also drop loads of kids they cannot, and do not, support.

The pig in question has been sitting on death row for years. This brainless twat has FOURTEEN fucking kids!!! Imagine how much this pig has cost taxpayers over the years.

And Traitor Biden wants to send these whores a monthly check for every stinking kid they drop. Under Biden's plan, this piece of dogshit would nearly be rich, come the first of each month.

Your tax dollars at work.

Watch Judge Judy, or the other TV-court shows and you'll see loads of black men and women who have done the same stupid shit: dropped kids just about like dogs dropping litters.

These whores should be sterilized before getting welfare for their first little bastard.





__





						Texas Death Row Inmate Melissa Lucio Granted Stay of Execution | BWCentral
					

The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals on Monday granted a stay of execution for a woman who was set to be judicially killed on Wednesday for the 2007 death of one of her 14 children, ordering a lower court to review new evidence in the case. Lawyers for Mexican-American Melissa Lucio, 52, say new...




					bwcentral.org


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## Lisa558 (Apr 27, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Absolutely.  People have always used food stamps to some degree, but most were embarrassed about it.  I heard of some people going to the grocery store at night when nobody was there.
> 
> Today they whip out that SNAP'S card like an American Express.  If there are any questions on a purchase, they just laugh it off proudly holding their SNAP's card the entire time.  Then they proudly leave the line after checking out and go to the head cashier to buy their cigarettes and lottery tickets.  No shame whatsoever.


Yup. My grandparents could have gotten “Relief” (the old name for welfare) during the Depression - both my grandfathers were WWII vets - and the extra money would have enabled them to move to a nicer apartment, and not have to have a “lodger” to help them make ends meet. But they didn’t want charity from the government.

Nowadays, there’s no shame. The contrary - there’s a sense of entitlement that it should be provided, and despite the fact that they wouldn’t need it if they got a job (or another adult in their family got a job). There should be NO government welfare, for example, where there is a married couple with children of school age, and where the mother refuses to get a part-time job to help with the family income.

Edit to correct: Both grandfathers were WWI vets, not II.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 27, 2022)

monkrules said:


> No shame is right!
> 
> A black woman was interviewed on the nightly television news some time ago.
> 
> ...


That’s horrible - and you’re right. There’s such a sense of entitlement that people on welfare can’t distinguish between EARNING what they have and being GIVEN what they have.

And they really need to ramp down on welfare. It’s so generous, or so prone to cheating, by the time you add in housing subsidies, food stamps, Medicaid, free this, free that, that a welfare recipient can live better than a young college graduate!

The problem is, there’s no stigma for anything these days. A 20-year-old has three children, with different fathers, and none are contributing? The mother AND the fathers should all be ashamed of themselves! But no…..that’s bad for self-esteem. So we coddle and excuse what SHOULD be inexcusable behavior. 

And worse…..if that inexcusable behavior is done by blacks, and it results in poverty, the leftists blame racism (while simultaneously referring to poor whites as trash and morons).


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 27, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> That’s horrible - and you’re right. There’s such a sense of entitlement that people on welfare can’t distinguish between EARNING what they have and being GIVEN what they have.
> 
> And they really need to ramp down on welfare. It’s so generous, or so prone to cheating, by the time you add in housing subsidies, food stamps, Medicaid, free this, free that, that a welfare recipient can live better than a young college graduate!
> 
> ...



My biggest problem are the Section 8 people.  If our tax dollars have to support you, we'll support you over there, not over here.  People work six days a week to afford a home in the suburbs, then the Democrats come along and insert their lowlifes into a once great neighborhood and they ruin it.  

These lowlifes are up all night, throwing parties, keeping working people up who have to get to work early in the morning.  Not only are they not thankful for what our tax money provided them, they don't have the courtesy to let people sleep at night so they can make that tax money for them.  Call the cops?  It doesn't even phase them.  

HUD and Section 8 pay way too much.  If we have to support these people, it should be in the lowest housing areas of the city, not in the suburbs.  All they do is bring down property value, bring in crime, and destroy our schools.  That's what needs to stop in this country.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 27, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yup. My grandparents could have gotten “Relief” (the old name for welfare) during the Depression - both my grandfathers were WWII vets - and the extra money would have enabled them to move to a nicer apartment, and not have to have a “lodger” to help them make ends meet. But they didn’t want charity from the government.
> 
> Nowadays, there’s no shame. The contrary - there’s a sense of entitlement that it should be provided, and despite the fact that they wouldn’t need it if they got a job (or another adult in their family got a job). There should be NO government welfare, for example, where there is a married couple with children of school age, and where the mother refuses to get a part-time job to help with the family income.



That's what happened here years ago.  I rented to a couple with two children, one in her early teens and the other about three or four years old.  They were getting behind on the rent, so I told them we needed to discuss the problem.  He refused to work one hour past 40 a week.  She stayed home supposedly to home school the kids even though she was a dumb as a rock herself. 

My solution to their financial problems was for her to work part-time on the weekends, perhaps 2 ten hour days.  Since he's home anyway, he could watch the kids.  

They didn't even consider my perfect solution.  She was getting close to $300.00 a month on food stamps.  Since they were not married, the government seen her as a single jobless mother with two kids.  And of course they had the large dog and several cats.  

I told them they'd have to leave which they didn't.  I had to evict them in court.  They didn't leave until the day the bailiff was going to come over to forcibly remove them.  And for what?  A few hundred bucks in food stamps.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 27, 2022)

Wow, a whole page of welfare Ray telling us how he's much better than those other welfare dependents. 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Absolutely. People have always used food stamps to some degree, but most were embarrassed about it. I heard of some people going to the grocery store at night when nobody was there.
> 
> Today they whip out that SNAP'S card like an American Express. If there are any questions on a purchase, they just laugh it off proudly holding their SNAP's card the entire time. Then they proudly leave the line after checking out and go to the head cashier to buy their cigarettes and lottery tickets. No shame whatsoever.



40% of families on SNAP have at least one family member with a job.  If they have a sense of entitlement, it's because the minimum wage stopped being a living wage some time ago. 

Poor people shouldn't be ashamed of being poor.  The rest of us should be ashamed that poor people are a thing in this country.  



Lisa558 said:


> Yup. My grandparents could have gotten “Relief” (the old name for welfare) during the Depression - both my grandfathers were WWII vets - and the extra money would have enabled them to move to a nicer apartment, and not have to have a “lodger” to help them make ends meet. But they didn’t want charity from the government.
> 
> Nowadays, there’s no shame. The contrary - there’s a sense of entitlement that it should be provided, and despite the fact that they wouldn’t need it if they got a job (or another adult in their family got a job). There should be NO government welfare, for example, where there is a married couple with children of school age, and where the mother refuses to get a part-time job to help with the family income.



Wow...  no wonder you people invented the word "Chutzpah"....  

The problem is, a part time job wouldn't cover the cost of Child Care, and you complain about the out-of-wedlock birth rate, but the main reason why poor people don't get married (which is the preferable thing, I guess), is because the government penalizes them.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 27, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> My biggest problem are the Section 8 people.  If our tax dollars have to support you, we'll support you over there, not over here.  People work six days a week to afford a home in the suburbs, then the Democrats come along and insert their lowlifes into a once great neighborhood and they ruin it.
> 
> These lowlifes are up all night, throwing parties, keeping working people up who have to get to work early in the morning.  Not only are they not thankful for what our tax money provided them, they don't have the courtesy to let people sleep at night so they can make that tax money for them.  Call the cops?  It doesn't even phase them.
> 
> HUD and Section 8 pay way too much.  If we have to support these people, it should be in the lowest housing areas of the city, not in the suburbs.  All they do is bring down property value, bring in crime, and destroy our schools.  That's what needs to stop in this country.


I agree completely. It‘s the fault of the liberals who, in their pursuit of “equity,” think that poor people should get to live in as nice an area as the hard-working people who EARNED the ability to live in a nice area.

I live in the affluent part of town, where townhouses start at $600,000 and go above $1 million. (It took me until my 40s, after 10 years of running my business working round the clock to afford it.) Our liberal government put in a subsidized townhouse complex a few blocks away, and the older teen boys of the single mothers who live there - all black - meander around the town all day and evening. Why don’t they have jobs?

When they talked about building a new 90-bed homeless shelter about a block from there, which means the men living there ALSO would meander around the town all day - I asked (at the Board meeting), why the government has to buy the expensive land in the affluent part of town for this, and why not in the working class area a couple of miles away where land is cheaper. The answer came back, with that liberal sense of superiority we all know well, that “poor people deserve to live in as nice a place as the rich people.”


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 27, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> That's what happened here years ago.  I rented to a couple with two children, one in her early teens and the other about three or four years old.  They were getting behind on the rent, so I told them we needed to discuss the problem.  He refused to work one hour past 40 a week.  She stayed home supposedly to home school the kids even though she was a dumb as a rock herself.
> 
> My solution to their financial problems was for her to work part-time on the weekends, perhaps 2 ten hour days.  Since he's home anyway, he could watch the kids.
> 
> ...


That’s another common thing I’ve noticed: the homeschooling. The very mothers who could use the time their kids are in school to get a friggin’ job are the ones who barely got through high school themselves and now insist on remaining home with the kids to homeschool them - and this they have no time for a job.

Everyone suffers for that. The taxpayers having to make up the diffeeence with welfare, the mother who could start getting some job experience and even work her way up, and most of all, the kids being deprived of an education.

There needs to be a rule that once there are no kids under 4, the mother needs to get a job or there will be NO government assistance.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 27, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> That’s another common thing I’ve noticed: the homeschooling. The very mothers who could use the time their kids are in school to get a friggin’ job are the ones who barely got through high school themselves and now insist on remaining home with the kids to homeschool them - and this they have no time for a job.
> 
> Everyone suffers for that. The taxpayers having to make up the diffeeence with welfare, the mother who could start getting some job experience and even work her way up, and most of all, the kids being deprived of an education.
> 
> There needs to be a rule that once there are no kids under 4, the mother needs to get a job or there will be NO government assistance.



We could eliminate a lot of it by having a requirement of being fixed first before receiving welfare.  The more kids, the more government goodies.  It's like we're rewarding lowlifes to have large families, just like we are rewarding failures by providing housing in suburban areas.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 27, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I agree completely. It‘s the fault of the liberals who, in their pursuit of “equity,” think that poor people should get to live in as nice an area as the hard-working people who EARNED the ability to live in a nice area.
> 
> I live in the affluent part of town, where townhouses start at $600,000 and go above $1 million. (It took me until my 40s, after 10 years of running my business working round the clock to afford it.) Our liberal government put in a subsidized townhouse complex a few blocks away, and the older teen boys of the single mothers who live there - all black - meander around the town all day and evening. Why don’t they have jobs?
> 
> When they talked about building a new 90-bed homeless shelter about a block from there, which means the men living there ALSO would meander around the town all day - I asked (at the Board meeting), why the government has to buy the expensive land in the affluent part of town for this, and why not in the working class area a couple of miles away where land is cheaper. The answer came back, with that liberal sense of superiority we all know well, that “poor people deserve to live in as nice a place as the rich people.”



One thing our government has never learned is that if you take 3/4 cup of fresh wholesome milk, mix that with 1/4 cup of sour curdled milk, you only end up with one thing, and that is a cup of bad milk.  

The good never changes the bad.  The bad just makes it worse on everybody else.  My neighbor charges so much for rent that the only people stupid enough to spend that kind of money are section 8 and HUD people.  The government gives them a generous voucher and they work part-time (usually in the afternoons) to make up the difference.  Anybody paying cash would opt for a nicer suburb, but finding a HUD house in a nicer suburb is nearly impossible.  These houses are on a main street, no garages, and very little room to park.  He hasn't rented it in a year because he had to put so much money into the place from the section 8 people that destroyed it the last time.  

Now he's finally showing it again, and of course to lowlifes.  Last summer when I had my security cameras installed, I put one facing right on his property in the backyard.  I'm hoping his potential renters see it and decide they don't want to live where they're being watched 24/7.  My camera DVR holds up to seven days of streaming video.  The kicker is the landlord isn't even an American.  He's from the middle-east somewhere.  Hey, if  you want to destroy other people's neighborhoods, move back to your own country and destroy them there.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 27, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I agree completely. It‘s the fault of the liberals who, in their pursuit of “equity,” think that poor people should get to live in as nice an area as the hard-working people who EARNED the ability to live in a nice area.
> 
> I live in the affluent part of town, where townhouses start at $600,000 and go above $1 million. (It took me until my 40s, after 10 years of running my business working round the clock to afford it.) Our liberal government put in a subsidized townhouse complex a few blocks away, and the older teen boys of the single mothers who live there - all black - meander around the town all day and evening. Why don’t they have jobs?
> 
> When they talked about building a new 90-bed homeless shelter about a block from there, which means the men living there ALSO would meander around the town all day - I asked (at the Board meeting), why the government has to buy the expensive land in the affluent part of town for this, and why not in the working class area a couple of miles away where land is cheaper. The answer came back, with that liberal sense of superiority we all know well, that “poor people deserve to live in as nice a place as the rich people.”



Wow, so the rich might actually have to look the poor people they exploit in the eye!  How horrible for them.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 27, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> One thing our government has never learned is that if you take 3/4 cup of fresh wholesome milk, mix that with 1/4 cup of sour curdled milk, you only end up with one thing, and that is a cup of bad milk.



I'm sure someone would look at your welfare collecting ass and think you are ruining the neighborhood.  I would be very worried if I had a gun nut sticking cameras over the building while he doesn't have a job. 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> The good never changes the bad. The bad just makes it worse on everybody else. My neighbor charges so much for rent that the only people stupid enough to spend that kind of money are section 8 and HUD people. The government gives them a generous voucher and they work part-time (usually in the afternoons) to make up the difference. Anybody paying cash would opt for a nicer suburb, but finding a HUD house in a nicer suburb is nearly impossible. These houses are on a main street, no garages, and very little room to park. He hasn't rented it in a year because he had to put so much money into the place from the section 8 people that destroyed it the last time.



Having visited Cleveland, you can get why no one wants to live there if they don't have to. 

The last condo complex I lived in has section 8 families...  Frankly, you'd never know the difference, because we have HOA rules. 

If homes are impossible to find, it's because we haven't kept up with building affordable housing in this country. 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Now he's finally showing it again, and of course to lowlifes. Last summer when I had my security cameras installed, I put one facing right on his property in the backyard. I'm hoping his potential renters see it and decide they don't want to live where they're being watched 24/7. My camera DVR holds up to seven days of streaming video. The kicker is the landlord isn't even an American. He's from the middle-east somewhere. Hey, if you want to destroy other people's neighborhoods, move back to your own country and destroy them there.



Oh, noes, Ray is going to have more neighbors he hates!   We knew it was only a matter of time.  

Has it occurred to you that your neighborhood sucks because people like you live in it?  Honestly, if I saw a house with a crazy neighbor who puts cameras up to watch everything, I'd be reluctant to live there.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 27, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> One thing our government has never learned is that if you take 3/4 cup of fresh wholesome milk, mix that with 1/4 cup of sour curdled milk, you only end up with one thing, and that is a cup of bad milk.
> 
> The good never changes the bad.  The bad just makes it worse on everybody else.  My neighbor charges so much for rent that the only people stupid enough to spend that kind of money are section 8 and HUD people.  The government gives them a generous voucher and they work part-time (usually in the afternoons) to make up the difference.  Anybody paying cash would opt for a nicer suburb, but finding a HUD house in a nicer suburb is nearly impossible.  These houses are on a main street, no garages, and very little room to park.  He hasn't rented it in a year because he had to put so much money into the place from the section 8 people that destroyed it the last time.
> 
> Now he's finally showing it again, and of course to lowlifes.  Last summer when I had my security cameras installed, I put one facing right on his property in the backyard.  I'm hoping his potential renters see it and decide they don't want to live where they're being watched 24/7.  My camera DVR holds up to seven days of streaming video.  The kicker is the landlord isn't even an American.  He's from the middle-east somewhere.  Hey, if  you want to destroy other people's neighborhoods, move back to your own country and destroy them there.


Yup, that’s what they’re trying to do - move poor lowlifes into nice middle class neighborhoods, even affluent ones, because, as it’s been explained to me, it’s better for the POOR people to be among the middle class.

Well, what about the middle class? It certainly isn’t better for them. As you point out, the schools drop in caliber and the property values along with them.

And this is why  the Dems are losing - have lost, in fact - the hard-working Americans who saved for years for a down payment for a nice suburban home, where their kids could go to a decent school, as their concern is focused on what’s best for the POOR people who don’t support themselves, and in doing so, make things worse for the middle class.

My parents’ house would be worth around $800,000 if it remained the nice middle (actually upper-middle class) area it was when they first bought it. There was a country club walking distance, and lots of neighbors belonged. But the county built low-income housing on the opposite side of the boulevard, and in the same school district, and the school rating PLUMMETED. (The younger parents in the nice houses, with school kids, moved out, and of course the country club is no longer.) The house price, while still good, is nowhere as good as if it were located on the other side of the county, where they DIDN’T put the low-income housing, and coincidently, where the county government Board members all live.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 27, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yup, that’s what they’re trying to do - move poor lowlifes into nice middle class neighborhoods, even affluent ones, because, as it’s been explained to me, it’s better for the POOR people to be among the middle class.
> 
> Well, what about the middle class? It certainly isn’t better for them. As you point out, the schools drop in caliber and the property values along with them.
> 
> ...



Which is what I told other posters here. Nobody builds a ghetto.  They build nice homes, stores, schools, and then people move there and turn it into a ghetto.  

Right now my houses are probably only worth a little more than when I bought them nearly 30 years ago.  Between the stores closing, robberies, murders, our schools turning into war zones, property values go right down the toilet.


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 27, 2022)

JoeB131
*Except the police kill more white people than black people. Check out this chart. in 2020, they shot 457 white people, 241 black people, and 169 Hispanics. 126 people were of race unknown.*

And how many of those white people were unarmed ?

We are talking about unarmed people.

The reason why there was so much uproar about George Floyd, Mike Brown, Freddie Gray, Trayvon Martin Jacob Black, Botham Jean, Tamir Rice and Breaonna Taylor and many more is because they were all unarmed

You dont have cases in the white comunity of the police killing seven year white girls and walking free






Where as a dogs life is considered more valuable than a black life in a system of white supremacy





You don't have the police doing this to young white girls





JoeB131
*Police make 10 million arrests and 40 million traffic stops a year. 1000 of those involve lethal use of force. Way too many, as far as I'm concerned, but also a pretty small number. 1 in 50,000.*

How many cops have been killed by an unarmed citizen in the last year ? ZERO.

How many times a year does a police officer get beaten to death ? ZERO.

How many officers in the field are killed each year by violence, 0.5 per state.

There are over 900,000 sworn law enforcement officers and less than one officer per state meets a violent demise, only 100 officers are killed in the line of duty each year (and of that 100 most of those deaths are by vehicles)

So tell me where is the danger? Once again we are talking about unarmed ppl.

JoeB131
*Are some cops racist? Yup.*

You notice ppl like you never say anything should be done about it ? Start talking about punishment then I'll take you seriously.

JoeB131
*And a lot of them are just incompetent.*

They're not imcomptent when it comes to white people. They're extremely competent when it comes to dealing with white people even if that white person is a threat to them






Their guns dont wrk when it comes to white.

JoeB131
*Yes, we need police reform.*

What the does that mean ? This is what you do.

Give cops who unjustly kill unarmed blk ppl minumum 20 year sentences without the possibilty of parole

That will stop it overnight. All of sudden cops won't confuse their tasers for gun.

JoeB131
*Instead, you guys demonized the cops, and they just stopped doing their jobs, leaving you to the mercies of the George Floyd's of the world.*

No your trolling. We want cops. We want good cops. We don't want white supremacist cops.

The problem is when the good cops try and challenge the bad cops, the bad cops close ranks and make life hell for the good cops ?










Systems operate as they are designed to operate, with or without the approval of who turns the gears of the machine. Sure you can push against the gears if you like, but the machinery is stronger than you.

if you were a “good cops” in the NYPD during the days of widespread stop-and-frisk, what would your goodness be worth?

The system of policing in the city at that time was dedicated to the daily harassment of black ppl, almost none of whom had drugs or weapons on them, very few of them were even issued a citation for any wrongdoing.

As such, a police man's job, every day they walked out the door of the precinct was to fk with people. And solely as a way to assert dominance.

Don't listen to me.

This was official policy

When one New York State Senator, himself formerly a member of the NYPD, challenged Commissioner Ray Kelly on the practice, he was told that the racial targeting within stop-and-frisk was intentional, because the goal was to “instill fear in them, every time they leave their home, that they could be stopped by the police.”

JoeB131
*You really think burning down a store that isn't owned by a white person is going to make white people more sympathetic?*

Sympathetic ?

You seem to think I'm in the business of telling sob stories to appeal to the pity of whites. As I have made plain elsewhere I think most whites have hearts of stone when it comes to blacks.

Huntington Beach in Cali is White. Every summer the city host the U.S. Open of Surfing. This didn't get much attention from the mainstream media.

These young white folks were upset because an annual tournament ended. There fights and burglaries but the local news didn’t refer to them looters as thugs.















So lighting a whole bus on fire and destroying people’s cars, fighting and shooting guns randomly because a baseball team won the World Series is acceptable, but rioting because of blatant income inequality, lack of opportunity and disregard for black life is not acceptable?

Only a white supremacist can rationalize something like that.

JoeB131
*Here's the biggest problem with violence. There's more of us than there are of you. *

And ? Is that you trying to talk tough here ? Am I supposed t be scared now ?

But you're correct in fact not only are we outnumbered, we are also severly outgunned and outfinanced too in the USA.

Many whites always talk about race war. But do you really want it ? Had they let Chauvin walk free in the George Floyd case, the race war would have happened and that would have been a good thing.

Most ppl have access to guns. You will always be faced with mass resistance.

Plenty of innocents will be massacred, families wiped out, communities looted and burnt.

This is not an easy win.

There is no shortage of real veterans from blk urban background. Yes the most disproportionately represented group come from white exurban and rural areas.

Yes white supremacists have always Joined the military, to learn to fight in their little Rahowa thing. The flipside to that, is if they do start up their race war, you'll find there's a lot of blk ppl who've had that same training, as well as combat experience.

Black people ain't going anywhere without great tragedy to your own.

JoeB131
*Hey, ask the Palestinians how well that's working out for them. They've been fighting the Zionists for what, 70 years now.*

That's the point. You want to force your enemy to wipe you out.

Much better to die fighting for something than living for nothing. When you fight especially as black people have done, and we face the most powerful country on the planet. You don't die. 

How many KKK leaders from 60 or 70 years ago are known globally today ? All of these Bull Connor's, George Wallace's and George Rockwell's

*Nobody remembers them*

But the world knows who MLK is, who Muhammad Ali is, who Malcolm x is, who Nelson Mandela is, who Harriet Tubman is.. Even President Trueman who nuked the japs killing half million of them. Nobody remembers him. You don't die when you fight injustice.

JoeB131
*You really think burning down a store that isn't owned by a white person is going to make white people more sympathet*

Sympathetic ? You seem to think I'm in the business of writng sob stories to appeal to the pity whites.

As I've said many times -  Most whites have a heart of stone when it comes to black people. We take care of ourselves and we fight for the things we need and we will fight you till hell freezes over n then fight you on that ice

We fight.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 27, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Which is what I told other posters here. Nobody builds a ghetto.  They build nice homes, stores, schools, and then people move there and turn it into a ghetto.
> 
> Right now my houses are probably only worth a little more than when I bought them nearly 30 years ago.  Between the stores closing, robberies, murders, our schools turning into war zones, property values go right down the toilet.



Same thing with my place in my first neighborhood (as an adult). I purchased my little condo - a starter home - for $80,000 almost 35 years ago, and it was such a nice community that we even had a couple of famous sports stars there. But then, the surrounding area went to shit because of lowlifes moving in, and stores closed, the tennis club I belonged to shuttered its doors, the upscale shopping mall across the street was converted into a discount mall, all the decent restaurants closed, and I was left with nothing but a Walmart type place and a junky pizza place. I sold it 15 years later for exactly $1,400 more than I paid for it. Anywhere else, it would have doubled.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 27, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Same thing with my place in my first neighborhood (as an adult). I purchased my little condo - a starter home - for $80,000 almost 35 years ago, and it was such a nice community that we even had a couple of famous sports stars there. But then, the surrounding area went to shit because of lowlifes moving in, and stores closed, the tennis club I belonged to shuttered its doors, the upscale shopping mall across the street was converted into a discount mall, all the decent restaurants closed, and I was left with nothing but a Walmart type place and a junky pizza place. I sold it 15 years later for exactly $1,400 more than I paid for it. Anywhere else, it would have doubled.



Same thing with my city.  My hardware store turned into a dollar general store, my doughnut shop into a check cashing place, my bowling ally into a Baptist church, our floor and carpet place into a manpower outlet, my convenient store into one of the dozens of child care centers in the city.  And then there are the nail salons or cell phone/ pager places that popped up all over the city.  

I'd be happy to have a Walmart nearby.  Both of ours in the area had to close down because of all the theft.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 27, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Same thing with my city.  My hardware store turned into a dollar general store, my doughnut shop into a check cashing place, my bowling ally into a Baptist church, our floor and carpet place into a manpower outlet, my convenient store into one of the dozens of child care centers in the city.  And then there are the nail salons or cell phone/ pager places that popped up all over the city.
> 
> I'd be happy to have a Walmart nearby.  Both of ours in the area had to close down because of all the theft.


Yup. What is it with the nail salons?! Lots of them cropped up as the neighborhood went downhill.

Oh…and about the stores that now have to put bars on their windows due to all the shoplifting? The blacks are complaining it’s racist, and that they’re not putting up bars in the white neighborhoods. Well, duh…..if you dare say that it’s because there’s less shoplifting in the white neighborhoods, you’ll get called a racist.

Are you in Cleveland, Ohio, or that other Cleveland (somewhere in the south)?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 27, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> And how many of those white people were unarmed ?
> 
> We are talking about unarmed people.
> 
> ...



This is the problem with the black community:  Ignorance of the law.  A police officer or armed citizen need not be threatened by a subject using deadly force in order to legally use deadly force themselves.  Our laws (similar to most if not all states) reads: _*A CCW holder can legally use deadly force if they believe that they (or others) are in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death.  *_That's the law.  It applies to citizens as well as police officers. 

So if an officer has reason to believe their safety or life is in jeopardy, that gives them the legal right to use a gun against an unarmed attacker.  As for your other false claim:

I*n 2015, the police fatally shot 36 unarmed black males, according to The Washington Post’s typology, and 31 unarmed white males. The Post’s classification of victims as “unarmed” is literally accurate but sometimes misleading. The label can fail to convey the charged situation facing the officer who used deadly force.

At least five “unarmed” black victims had tried to grab the officer’s gun, or had been beating the cop with his own equipment. Some were shot from an accidental discharge triggered by their own assault on the officer. One had the officer on the ground and was beating him on the head so violently, breaking bones and causing other injuries, as to risk the officer’s loss of consciousness. And one individual included in the Post’s “unarmed black male victim” category was a bystander unintentionally struck by an officer’s bullet after an illegal-gun trafficker opened fire at the officer and the officer shot back. If a victim was not the intended target of a police shooting, race could have had no possible role in his death.*









						Police Shootings and Race | Manhattan Institute
					

This piece is the first installment of a guest-blog series by Heather Mac Donald for the Washington Post's The Volokh Conspiracy Eugene has kindly invited me to present findings from my new book, “The War on Cops.” The book argues that the Black Lives Matter narrative about a racist...




					www.manhattan-institute.org


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 27, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yup. What is it with the nail salons?! Lots of them cropped up as the neighborhood went downhill.
> 
> Oh…and about the stores that now have to put bars on their windows due to all the shoplifting? The blacks are complaining it’s racist, and that they’re not putting up bars in the white neighborhoods. Well, duh…..if you dare say that it’s because there’s less shoplifting in the white neighborhoods, you’ll get called a racist.
> 
> Are you in Cleveland, Ohio, or that other Cleveland (somewhere in the south)?



No, in Ohio unfortunately.  There is another Cleveland in Tennessee I believe, but not really a major city.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 27, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> And how many of those white people were unarmed ?
> 
> We are talking about unarmed people.
> 
> The reason why there was so much uproar about George Floyd, Mike Brown, Freddie Gray, Trayvon Martin Jacob Black, Botham Jean, Tamir Rice and Breaonna Taylor and many more is because they were all unarmed



Jacob Blake had a knife.  He was about to try to drive off in a vehicle with three children in it. 
Tamir Rice was pointing a realistic model gun in a public area.

I do think the cops who shot them overreacted... 

But let's look at that... You've listed a whopping 8 people over 10 years

out of 50 million interactions a year. 

And, yes, cops do kill unarmed white people.  I gave you two examples, Tony Timpa and Daniel Shaver. I could find more if I really wanted to waste a morning looking.




Paul Essien said:


> You notice ppl like you never say anything should be done about it ? Start talking about punishment then I'll take you seriously.



For merely being a racist? Are you going to start a "Thought Police".. Shades of Orwell. 



Paul Essien said:


> What the does that mean ? This is what you do.
> 
> Give cops who unjustly kill unarmed blk ppl minumum 20 year sentences without the possibilty of parole
> 
> That will stop it overnight. All of sudden cops won't confuse their tasers for gun.



Or they'll just do what they are doing now.  Hang back, let the bad guys do whatever damage they are going to do.



Paul Essien said:


> No your trolling. We want cops. We want good cops. We don't want white supremacist cops.
> 
> The problem is when the good cops try and challenge the bad cops, the bad cops close ranks and make life hell for the good cops ?



Um, doesn't sound like any other profession.  no one likes a snitch...  No one like the guy who gets his coworkers in trouble. 



Paul Essien said:


> Systems operate as they are designed to operate, with or without the approval of who turns the gears of the machine. Sure you can push against the gears if you like, but the machinery is stronger than you.
> 
> if you were a “good cops” in the NYPD during the days of widespread stop-and-frisk, what would your goodness be worth?



But the question is, WHY did NYC adopt stop and frisk? Oh, that's right, because crime was completely out of control.  They ended it, and crime has shot right back up again.



Paul Essien said:


> You seem to think I'm in the business of telling sob stories to appeal to the pity of whites. As I have made plain elsewhere I think most whites have hearts of stone when it comes to blacks.



I think you are in the business of being perpetually angry and looking for excuses to be angry. 



Paul Essien said:


> So lighting a whole bus on fire and destroying people’s cars, fighting and shooting guns randomly because a baseball team won the World Series is acceptable, but rioting because of blatant income inequality, lack of opportunity and disregard for black life is not acceptable?



Were those people charged for property damage?  Yes, they were.  A lot of people who committed property damage during the 2020 riots never saw a day in jail. 



Paul Essien said:


> As I've said many times - Most whites have a heart of stone when it comes to black people. We take care of ourselves and we fight for the things we need and we will fight you till hell freezes over n then fight you on that ice
> 
> We fight.



Considering that far more blacks die at the hands of other blacks, I don't think this is something to be happy about.

You've gotten the cops to stop doing their jobs, and crime rates in NYC, Chicago, etc. have shot up.  Most of the victims are people of color. 

You whine about the 223 black people killed by police, even though most of them were armed and threatening someone.  What I don't see you getting as concerned about- the 8600 black victims of homicide, most of them at the hands of other black people.  The 30,000 black people who've died of drug overdoses because street gangs flood our inner cities with drugs. 

Nope. Let's be horribly upset about the cop who panics when threatened by some loon flashing a knife or a gun.


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 27, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland
_A CCW holder can legally use deadly force if they believe that they (or others) are in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death. _That's the law. It applies to citizens as well as police officers.

So basically what you are saying here is that you can kill a black person and use the _"I'm white and I say so" _That thing were people believe anything whites say.

_

_

*It'll go like this*

White person  _"I killed that black man because I felt threatened" _
Judge _"Really. Why ?"_
White person _"Because I felt threatened"_
Judge _"What do he do ?"_
White person _"He was behaving in a threatening manner"_
Judge _"OK. But what do he actually do"_
White person _"I just told you. He was behaving in a threatening manner"_
Judge_ "OK. You make some very good points. I gotta let you go, Have a good day




_

Black Person _"I killed that white man because I felt threatened"_
Judge_ "Really ? Negro. Well I feel threatened by you. Life without parole" _






JoeB131
I*n 2015, the police fatally shot 36 unarmed black males, according to The Washington Post’s typology, and 31 unarmed white males. The Post’s classification of victims as “unarmed” is literally accurate but sometimes misleading. The label can fail to convey the charged situation facing the officer who used deadly force.*

Let me tell you something about white people. Because at this point in my life. I'm expert on how you guys think.

There is not much I respect about white supremacist society but one thing I do respect is that white people have a DEEP _"You're not gonna treat us like the negroes"_ mentality.

The police ain't killing unarmed white men and women and children.

You know why ?

White people would never stand for it. They'd be bombing police stations tomorrow. They'd be finding out where the police officer lived and handing out fatal street justice

And you know what ?

*I gotta respect that**.*

There was a Doctor who caught up by the police and he says _"Your treating me like a black person"_

**
See when it get's serious. You know the deal. White people know who are the people who are targeted for mistreatment by the police and who ain't and white society gets an ego boost and thrill when they see the police killing black people

That's why in any case were the mistreatment of blk ppl is threatened and it goes to court ? The police officer gets donations from all over the USA, getting close half million in their gofund me account because white society sees the mistreatment of black people as a right


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 27, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Wow, a whole page of welfare Ray telling us how he's much better than those other welfare dependents.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Minimum wage never was a "living wage" it was a place to start.  The only time in my life I made minimum wage was my first job in high school, and even then, I got a raise after a few months. The jobs I held in grade school and junior high paid less than minimum wage (newspaper stand in grade school and paper route in junior high), but I worked because my family needed the money.  My grandmother was also too proud to take public assistance.


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 27, 2022)

JoeB131 
*Considering that far more blacks die at the hands of other blacks, I don't think this is something to be happy about*

Are more blk ppl were kiled by blk ppl than by the police ?

Yes that's true.

But that would have been true 100 years ago

But would have that justified the lynching and hangings from the Klan ? No

The black on black crime figure will always be higher that white on black. Why ? Because those are the people you live around.

You're argument is as stupid as me telling a woman with breast cancer, not worry about it and not focus on it because all the focus is on Lung Cancer because is the biggest cancer killer.

The police are held to a higher standard. Because if you have the power to kill me, then you better believe I'm gonna hold you to a higher standard.

It's the same way a teacher can't be late often for their class and then turn around and say "Well some of you are late too"

JoeB131 
*You whine about the 223 black people killed by police, even though most of them were armed and threatening someone.* 





JoeB131 
*What I don't see you getting as concerned about- the 8600 black victims of homicide, most of them at the hands of other black people. *

And how does that affect white people ?

Crime is mostly intra-racial. That means there will always be way more black-on-black crime than white-on-black crime. While it is true that 90 of black murders are black-on-black, it is just as true that 90% of white murders are white-on-white. In fact, most crime in America is white-on-white – yet for every web page that mentions “white-on-white crime”, there are 25 that mention “black-on-black crime”.

JoeB131 
*The 30,000 black people who've died of drug overdoses because street gangs flood our inner cities with drugs*.





30,000 ? lol





JoeB131
*I think you are in the business of being perpetually angry and looking for excuses to be angry.*

Now your projecting. That's when someone realizes that a negative trait applies to them, they then attempts to locate that trait in others,.

JoeB131 
*Jacob Blake had a knife. He was about to try to drive off in a vehicle with three children in it. Tamir Rice was pointing a realistic model gun in a public area.*

Of course he did  

You came here as a king of your little sand castle of delightfully white sands. And you know if you answer the questions here, your castle will be washed away by the the waves of curiosity and knowledge.

Poetic, aren’t I?

JoeB131 
*I do think the cops who shot them overreacted...*

No they didn't over-react. Because they don't over react when it comes to white people


JoeB131 
*But let's look at that... You've listed a whopping 8 people over 10 years*

I'd be all day if I listed the blk ppl killed by cops in the last ten years.





Fact is more black people were killed in 2015 by the police than were killed by the police in 1895 and every year following up to 1965 when Jim crow ended.

JoeB131 
*And, yes, cops do kill unarmed white people. I gave you two examples, Tony Timpa and Daniel Shaver. I could find more if I really wanted to waste a morning looking.*

That's as stupid as saying "_Well Walmart throws out food. So they can't make money"_

This Tony Timpa and Shaver. That's the cost of doing business. Racism is war and when a country goes to war. They estimate how many casualties they will lose. Timpa n Shaver were casualties of war 

And from what read about Timpa. It was an accidental dealth. They didn't just go in at him blasting





As for Shaver ? I'll let all lives matter deal with that one.

JoeB131 
*A lot of people who committed property damage during the 2020 riots never saw a day in jail.*

Because most them were white






JoeB131 
*Were those people charged for property damage? Yes, they were.*

Are you serious  They're white. White men can be rapists and not spend a day in prison.






And let's be clear. This guy raped multiple women, one was a pastors daughter and another rape victim died.

Please show me one case where a black person raped multiple women didn’t have to spend a day in prison or register as a sex offender.

_I’ll wait._


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 27, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Let me tell you something about white people. Because at this point in my life. I'm expert on how you guys think.
> 
> There is not much I respect about white supremacist society but one thing I do respect is that white people have a DEEP _"You're not gonna treat us like the negroes"_ mentality.
> 
> ...



Hey, check this out...  Jeremy Mardis, a white six year old child killed by police.  









						Killing of Jeremy Mardis - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Nobody had to firebomb a police department... amazing.  Nobody firebombed a police station over Justine Damond, either. 

  I've already pointed out that there have been numerous cases of police killing unarmed white people, and frankly, we aren't seeing that much of a complaint about it.  Why, because usually if you are killed by the cops- no matter what your race- you were usually engaging in some variety of dumbass.





Paul Essien said:


> See when it get's serious. You know the deal. White people know who are the people who are targeted for mistreatment by the police and who ain't and white society gets an ego boost and thrill when they see the police killing black people
> 
> That's why in any case were the mistreatment of blk ppl is threatened and it goes to court ? The police officer gets donations from all over the USA, getting close half million in their gofund me account because white society sees the mistreatment of black people as a right



We should also point out that rioters got millions in their GoFundMe accounts to pay for bail...  You get on the news, someone will send you money for a Go-Fund Me account.

The major difference, as I have said, is that when a white person is mistreated by the police, they are usually the person



Paul Essien said:


> And let's be clear. This guy raped multiple women, one was a pastors daughter and another rape victim died.
> 
> Please show me one case where a black person raped multiple women didn’t have to spend a day in prison or register as a sex offender.



97% of rapists never go to jail. 





__





						The Criminal Justice System: Statistics | RAINN
					

The majority of perpetrators of sexual assault will not go to prison.




					www.rainn.org


----------



## Ralph Norton (Apr 27, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Funny how you don't use per capita here. These are more bullshit excuses. This is not open to debate. The root cause of the problems blacks face is white racism. Period.


Funny how you encourage the use of 'per capita' here but scoff at it in another thread about crime rates by race.
Good to have options, isn't it?
PS - putting "period" at the end of your statement doesn't make you right.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 27, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Of course he did
> 
> You came here as a king of your little sand castle of delightfully white sands. And you know if you answer the questions here, your castle will be washed away by the the waves of curiosity and knowledge.
> 
> Poetic, aren’t I?



Nuts, aren't you?  That Blake had a knife isn't really in dispute.  The question was it in his hand or inside the car.  Now, I completely think the police overreacted, but the man was about to get into a car with three kids in it that he didn't have custody of.  



Paul Essien said:


> No they didn't over-react. Because they don't over react when it comes to white people



Really?  Tell that to Sadler and Timpa.  



Paul Essien said:


> I'd be all day if I listed the blk ppl killed by cops in the last ten years.



Yes, but how many of them were armed? how many of them were in the process of committing crimes. 

Again, the police execute 10 million arrests and make 40 million traffic stops ever year.  
Of those, 1000 end up with loss of life. 
Of those, only a fraction didn't involve some idiot pulling a gun or a knife.  

Do we need to train officers better in de-escalation tactics?  Yup. 
Do we need to train them in using non-lethal force? Yup.  



Paul Essien said:


> This Tony Timpa and Shaver. That's the cost of doing business. Racism is war and when a country goes to war. They estimate how many casualties they will lose. Timpa n Shaver were casualties of war
> 
> And from what read about Timpa. It was an accidental dealth. They didn't just go in at him blasting



Actually, Timpa's case was remarkably similar to Geo. Floyd.  The police used force to restrain an emotionally disturbed person, and he died.  



Paul Essien said:


> Because most them were white


Wow, white people protesting in response to the deaths of black people... um.... okay.  Maybe more of them should talk to you, they probably wouldn't bother.


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 27, 2022)

JoeB131 
*Hey, check this out... Jeremy Mardis, a white six year old child killed by police.*





Well yes I know this story. To give you some contect the cops were gonna arrest the JEREMY Mardis dad for somestic abuse but the Dad took off, and sirens blaring the cops gave chase, it ended up in a stand off where the cop pumped 18 shots into the vehicle not knowing that Jermy Mardis (the 6 year old kid) was in the car oo. So it was an unintentiinak shooting, totally different from when black kids are shot and killed. So not very good attempt at your trying to draw parrell with black victims

JoeB131 
*Nobody had to firebomb a police department... amazing. Nobody firebombed a police station over Justine Damond, either*

Because the cops who shot and killed kid (Above) looked like this Derrick Stafford and Norris Greenhouse





Within 72 hours, they were arrested and charged with second-degree murder and attempted second-degree murder. They were in jail on a $1 million bond. 

From what I hear and read on forums and media Greenhouse was enchanted with the child's White mama, in fact they were having an affair. 

The mother initiated the confrontation by calling the police after she and the father had an argument. This was not a random traffic stop. In my opinion this has nothing to do with police brutality, but more of a 3way love triangle. 





Greenhouse and the boy's father had a previous encounter about a month before the shooting took place, according to the boy's father's fiance. The boy's father told the officer to stay away from the fiance or he would hurt him. Apparently, the boy's father and Greenhouse had gone to high school together. This was a crime of passion rather 

The fact that they were even prosecuted speaks volumes. I watched the system work as it was intended.

Also

No one said, “wait for all the facts to come in.”
No one said, “Not all cops are bad.”
No one called a grand jury.
No one blamed Mardis for his death. Even though his father decided on cop cahse rather hand him self over
No one demonized his parents.
No one searched his school records.
No one said Mardis was “no angel”. Instead they said he was “a special gift from God.”
No one talked about White-on-White crime.
No one had to march or protest.
No one had to pay for an independent autopsy.
No one had to call the Justice Department.
And no one had to say, “White lives matter.”
Result ?






And Norris Greenhouse (who never fired a shot)





*Meanwhile*, Tamir Rice’s killer, almost a year later, is still enjoying a paid vacation.





JoeB131 
*I've already pointed out that there have been numerous cases of police killing unarmed white people, and frankly, we aren't seeing that much of a complaint about it. *

No you haven't. Jeremy Mardis wasn't shot and killed because he was white. He was unlucky to be at the wrong place at the wrong time and truth be told it's his father who should be blame if anything. Not saying the cops were right though

The police are not shooting and killed unarmed white peple. Finding one case from ten years ago doesn't prove anything. The same way Stevie Wonder's money doesn't disprove thea fact that it's an advantage to have your eye sight.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 27, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> So basically what you are saying here is that you can kill a black person and use the _"I'm white and I say so" _That thing were people believe anything whites say.



The law is not written based on race, that is unless you can tell me that all attackers are black.  

Prosecutors can still bring a case to court IF they have evidence a person was not in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death,  or had reason to believe so.  

For instance when I was younger, I could never use deadly force against some skinny 5'6 guy who simply made a threat.  I'm 6'3" and in a younger day, well built and a black belt in Kempo.  Between my size and training, a prosecutor could easily make a valid case I was in no position to believe I was in threat of serious bodily harm or death. 

Since you mentioned it, take the Travon Martin case.   Zimmerman suffered multiple injuries from the attack including two black eyes, a broken nose and back injuries.  Martin showed no intention of stopping.  Zimmerman had every reason to believe he suffered serious bodily harm and could be risking death by not using deadly force to stop the attack.  The only reason he was arrested and charged later on was because of the public outrage as the media originally lied about the story, but they had no grounds in which to charge him.  He followed the letter of the law to a tee.  Even the jurors admitted that they had to rule not-guilty because the law was followed perfectly. 

Brown was high as a kite.  He first tried to disarm the officer in his car resulting in his hand getting shot.  He tried to take Brown into custody, but Brown instead ran after the officer.  Brown was much larger and younger than the officer, so he had every reason to believe he was in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death.  After all if he didn't stop the attack using his firearm, Brown could have easily disarmed the officer and use his very own gun against him.  Plus the fact he apparently didn't even feel the hand injury.  That's why he too was found not-guilty.  

So as I stated, the big problem with blacks is they don't know the laws of their state.  Many are under the impression that it's illegal to use deadly force unless the attacker too is armed.  So they get upset thinking it's a race thing and the white guy got off simply because of the color of his skin.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 27, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Well yes I know this story. To give you some contect the cops were gonna arrest the JEREMY Mardis dad for somestic abuse but the Dad took off, and sirens blaring the cops gave chase, it ended up in a stand off where the cop pumped 18 shots into the vehicle not knowing that Jermy Mardis (the 6 year old kid) was in the car oo. So it was an unintentiinak shooting, totally different from when black kids are shot and killed. So not very good attempt at your trying to draw parrell with black victims



You know what, your arguments would be a lot more compelling if you could spell properly.  It makes me wonder if you are illiterate or if you are a Russian Troll trying to stir up shit.  

Besides your bizarre conspiracy theory of an affair between Mardis' mother and one of the officers,  most of the case was pretty cut and dried.  The officer involved fired into a car after the driver had given up.  It was all cut on tape.  Add to that the officers involved had previous records of excessive force. 



Paul Essien said:


> Also
> 
> No one said, “wait for all the facts to come in.”
> No one said, “Not all cops are bad.”
> ...



Most of those things didn't happen because the officers involved plead guilty.   As far as your claim about "no one checking his school records", it was reported that the child was on the Autism spectrum.  

Also, you list a bunch of grievances of what should have been done when black teens or adults have been killed (sometimes not even by police), by cherry picking offenses in various cases.   

I agree, some of these cases HAVE been bad.  

Now, I have not been on speaking terms with certain family members for years because I stated my belief the officer who shot Laquan McDonald should have been held accountable. 

But I'll turn it around.  How many of the political opportunists and community activists who insisted on Jason van Dyke's scalp cared when McDonald was being routinely abused by his drug addict mother?   How many of them cared when he was living on the streets?  Or when he started running with a street gang.  Or did he only become useful, like Floyd, when he became a tool in an anti-police agenda? 



Paul Essien said:


> And Norris Greenhouse (who never fired a shot)


You left out the part where Greenhouse only served a year and a half of that seven year sentence.  By contrast, Jason van Dyke had to serve 3 1/2 years for shooting Laquan McDonald.  



Paul Essien said:


> *Meanwhile*, Tamir Rice’s killer, almost a year later, is still enjoying a paid vacation.



Actually, no, he was fired from the Cleveland PD years ago, despite being acquitted of all charges.    



Paul Essien said:


> No you haven't. Jeremy Mardis wasn't shot and killed because he was white. He was unlucky to be at the wrong place at the wrong time and truth be told it's his father who should be blame if anything. Not saying the cops were right though
> 
> The police are not shooting and killed unarmed white peple. Finding one case from ten years ago doesn't prove anything. The same way Stevie Wonder's money doesn't disprove thea fact that it's an advantage to have your eye sight.



Um... wow, you suck at analogy. 

The police kill MORE white people than black people.  True, that has more to do with the fact of 70% of the population vs. 13% of the population. 

You see, I agree with you that the police are too quick to use lethal force, and far too quick to use it on people of color. I believe there is a need for a lot of reform of our police department. 

But I don't try to pretend that George Floyd was on the same moral plane as Jeremy Mardis.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 27, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brown was high as a kite. He first tried to disarm the officer in his car resulting in his hand getting shot. He tried to take Brown into custody, but Brown instead ran after the officer. Brown was much larger and younger than the officer, so he had every reason to believe he was in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death. After all if he didn't stop the attack using his firearm, Brown could have easily disarmed the officer and use his very own gun against him. Plus the fact he apparently didn't even feel the hand injury. That's why he too was found not-guilty.



You left out the part where brown ran 152 feet away from the police cruiser where the altercation started, lost both of his sandals, turned around and according to 14 witnesses, has his hands up trying to give up when he was shot.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 27, 2022)

So instead of arguing with Welfare Ray who seems to think that there's never been a black person murdered who didn't have it coming, and Paul who thinks everything is a huge fucking conspiracy, let's talk about some SENSIBLE reforms.  

My short list. 

Every cop should be equipped with a body cam.  
Every cop should be equipped with a Taser and be proficient in their use. 
Remove police unions from the disciplinary process; every cop involved in a shooting incident usually had a long history of bad behavior leading up to it. 
Have a law enforcement license, just like nurses, doctors, lawyers and other professionals. 
Qualified Immunity should be eliminated.  The police Unions can set up insurance funds to pay out damages instead of the city's that could fire them. 
Train all police officers in de-escalation tactics
Make police part of the communities again.  If you have cops going home to their enclaves where all their neighbors are also cops, it puts too much of a barrier between the cops and the communities they serve.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 27, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The law is not written based on race, that is unless you can tell me that all attackers are black.
> 
> Prosecutors can still bring a case to court IF they have evidence a person was not in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death,  or had reason to believe so.
> 
> ...


Yup. Jury got it right.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Brown was high as a kite.  He first tried to disarm the officer in his car resulting in his hand getting shot.  He tried to take Brown into custody, but Brown instead ran after the officer.  Brown was much larger and younger than the officer, so he had every reason to believe he was in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death.  After all if he didn't stop the attack using his firearm, Brown could have easily disarmed the officer and use his very own gun against him.  Plus the fact he apparently didn't even feel the hand injury.  That's why he too was found not-guilty.



Yup. Jury got it right again here.


Ray From Cleveland said:


> So as I stated, the big problem with blacks is they don't know the laws of their state.  Many are under the impression that it's illegal to use deadly force unless the attacker too is armed.  So they get upset thinking it's a race thing and the white guy got off simply because of the color of his skin.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 27, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> So instead of arguing with Welfare Ray who seems to think that there's never been a black person murdered who didn't have it coming, and Paul who thinks everything is a huge fucking conspiracy, let's talk about some SENSIBLE reforms.
> 
> My short list.
> 
> ...


As much as I usually disagree with you, those are all good ideas.  An even better one that will never be done due to budgetary issues is getting cops out of their cruisers and on foot on specified beats. That way they know the neighborhood and the people and the people know them.  Unfortunately that will cost somewhere in excess of ten times the current budgets because police on foot can cover such a small area.
Tasers aren’t magic though.  I was on a Criminal Grand Jury, and one of our cases was a drug possession for sale/resisting arrest.  One cop was wrestling with the criminal while the other tried to tase him.  One lead hit the criminal and the other hit the cop.  He said it really lit him up every time his partner hit the trigger, but it wasn’t enough to disable.  The darts tasers shoot are very susceptible to wind.  That being said, they are an invaluable tool to reduce levels of force that are usually fatal.  What cops really need is a Star Trek style stunner so they can safely shoot (stun) first and ask questions later.


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 27, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland 
*The law is not written based on race, that is unless you can tell me that all attackers are black.*

All lawas are racial based.

Ray From Cleveland 
*Prosecutors can still bring a case to court IF they have evidence a person was not in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death, or had reason to believe so.*

All lawas are racial based.

Ray From Cleveland 
*For instance when I was younger, I could never use deadly force against some skinny 5'6 guy who simply made a threat. I'm 6'3" and in a younger day, well built and a black belt in Kempo. Between my size and training, a prosecutor could easily make a valid case I was in no position to believe I was in threat of serious bodily harm or death*.

Well he ain't here to give his side of the story.

Since you mentioned it, take the Travon Martin case. Zimmerman suffered multiple injuries from the attack including two black eyes, a broken nose and back injuries. Martin showed no intention of stopping. Zimmerman had every reason to believe he suffered serious bodily harm and could be risking death by not using deadly force to stop the attack. 






Ray From Cleveland 
*The only reason he was arrested and charged later on was because of the public outrage as the media originally lied about the story, but they had no grounds in which to charge him. He followed the letter of the law to a tee. Even the jurors admitted that they had to rule not-guilty because the law was followed perfectly.



*

Ray From Cleveland 
*Brown was high as a kite. He first tried to disarm the officer in his car resulting in his hand getting shot. He tried to take Brown into custody, but Brown instead ran after the officer. Brown was much larger and younger than the officer, so he had every reason to believe he was in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death. After all if he didn't stop the attack using his firearm, Brown could have easily disarmed the officer and use his very own gun against him. Plus the fact he apparently didn't even feel the hand injury. That's why he too was found not-guilty.



*

That's what happens with white supremacists. They just use the_ "I'm white and say so"_


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 27, 2022)

JoeB131 
*Every cop should be equipped with a body cam.*

Which the white supremacist cops will switch off. Eric Garner was on cam. They don't care. 

JoeB131
*Every cop should be equipped with a Taser and be proficient in their use.*

And there will just be a truck load of lying white supremacist cops who will claim they mistook their taser for a gun. That's what happened to Kim Potter in the Daunte Wright killing





JoeB131 
*Remove police unions from the disciplinary process; every cop involved in a shooting incident usually had a long history of bad behavior leading up to it.*

There are white supremacist beat cops, sergeants, captains, police chiefs and prosecutors who are using sheriff departments as havens and nests were white supremacist can be hired to kill black ppl and the white supremacist district attorney will back them up on it.

JoeB131 
*Have a law enforcement license, just like nurses, doctors, lawyers and other professionals.
Qualified Immunity should be eliminated. The police Unions can set up insurance funds to pay out damages instead of the city's that could fire them.*

Your babbling. All you do is give them 20 or 30 years in prison without parole. That will stop it overnnight. All this legalize talk that you're doing where your trying to sound intelligence is pointless. 

JoeB131
*Train all police officers in de-escalation tactics*

They only use de-escalation tactics when they are white.

JoeB131
*Make police part of the communities again. If you have cops going home to their enclaves where all their neighbors are also cops, it puts too much of a barrier between the cops and the communities they serve.*

OK. That's not bad one. That's the only suggestion that'd I agree with


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 27, 2022)

JoeB131 
*How many of the political opportunists and community activists who insisted on Jason van Dyke's scalp cared when McDonald was being routinely abused by his drug addict mother? How many of them cared when he was living on the streets? Or when he started running with a street gang. Or did he only become useful, like Floyd, when he became a tool in an anti-police agenda?*





JoeB131 
*You know what, your arguments would be a lot more compelling if you could spell properly. It makes me wonder if you are illiterate or if you are a Russian Troll trying to stir up shit.*

 What makes sense to the wolf is not going to make sense to the sheep. 

JoeB131
*Besides your bizarre conspiracy theory of an affair between Mardis' mother and one of the officers, most of the case was pretty cut and dried. *

He was fking her. What do you want me to say ? There are recorded facebook messages between them.

JoeB131
*The officer involved fired into a car after the driver had given up. It was all cut on tape. Add to that the officers involved had previous records of excessive force.*

He didn't know the kids was in there. It wasn't murder

JoeB131 
*The police kill MORE white people than black people. True, that has more to do with the fact of 70% of the population vs. 13% of the population.*

The police are not killing unarmed white men women and children.

JoeB131 
*You see, I agree with you that the police are too quick to use lethal force, and far too quick to use it on people of color. I believe there is a need for a lot of reform of our police department.*

I'm not interest in changing hearts and minds. I'm about punishment. Unless you are talking about punishment. That means life with parole or minnumum 20 year sentences then don't talk.

JoeB131 
*Actually, no, he was fired from the Cleveland PD years ago, despite being acquitted of all charges.*

White supremacist don't get fired. they get transferred..

JoeB131 
*st, Jason van Dyke had to serve 3 1/2 years for shooting Laquan McDonald.*

He is now outta jail and only served 3 years in prison. A sentence which is far less than many people face for selling a nickle bag of weed.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 28, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Not sure what you’re talking about with 24 years, but the point is that blacks have had TWO full generations to move out of poverty via anti-white racist admissions policies - and most have - but for those who remain mired in the underclass, it’s in THEM to get out with responsible choices. It’s not whitey’s fault that they keep having babies they can’t afford and then don’t complete their education.


Not 24 years Lisa, 24 DECADES, in other words *240 *years.  

You're complaining because in your opinion, black people haven't done enough in two generations which is approximately *50* years out of over *240* years since the U.S. declared it's independence, *190* of those years in which we were legally segregated and lawfully discriminated against.

That's stupid and ridiculous.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 28, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Blah, blah, blah. None of that matters when you see how poor people can move here and become middle class in ONE generation. They also started well behind the starting line. You’re perpetrating the myth - the excuse - that whites are ahead of blacks because had all these generations to make money.
> 
> And slavery deprived blacks of an education? Well, the impoverished Jews moving here two generations AFTER slavery weren't educated, either. All it took was one generation in this country to make uo the lost ground, and move into the middle class.
> 
> ...


You are are evil because you knowingly present lies as facts in order to hurt others.  Even though you have been shown where you have been mistaken, you ignore that information and continue on with you crusade against poor black.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 28, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> If you didn’t read what I wrote, and then argue back showing a complete lack of understanding as to how the EO went from its original text to WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW, then there’s no point in continuing this debate. You choose to remain ignorant, defiant, and arrogant.
> 
> Hoe many years have YOU worked in admissions? Like zero?


I'm a software developer, why would I be interested in working in "admissions".  But I do work with data and a lot of the government agencies will send you their unclassified data so that you can query and analyze it yourself in order to discover how they derive the data that they publish on some of their websites.  

Anytime an organization or agency accepts money from the government they have to report back to them how they spent it and generally provide demographic data on those served or were recipients of the funds.  That's one of the ways we know that white women are the largest beneficiaries because of the tracking that the agencies are so fond of doing in order to make sure that the funding for their budgets continue (and increase).

Oh and by the way, if the original EO did not explicitly state that black people are to be given preference over white people nor any other minority, then it's still incorrect to CLAIM that affirmative actions instructs anyone to give black people preference at the expense of white people.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 28, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> What IS an accomplishment is being born to poor, uneducated parents who immigrated here without a penny to escape Jewish persecution, and then live through half your family being killed back in Europe, and despite this, graduating from college along with every single one of your siblings.


Well color me unimpressed then.  That's not a personal accomplishment, as I stated it's merely the circumstances of your birth.

I was born into a middle class family however I have the humility to realize that a lot of people made innumerable sacrifices for us to be able to live as we did.  We were not wealthy but we had enough and enough for extras.  

There is a movie show casing on Prime Video currently called 'Them' about a black family who moved from the south to Compton California back in the '50s or early '60s (probably the '50s).  It is nauseating how what this family experienced is depicted but YOU would brush being subjected to this kind of terrorization as NOTHING compared to the persecution of the Jewish people in Europe.

I have never discounted what the Jewish people endured at the hands of the Axis and am very cognizant of the horror of it all but the difference between you and I is that I can easily acknowledge the wrong that was done to both groups of people but what was done to each group was not the same thing.  The Jewish was the subject of a genocidal attempt by Hitler and many had to flee for their lives but there were countries who welcomed them with open arms.  Black people in this country were subjected to being held in slavery and if any were fortunate enough to escape there was no where in the country they could go where there would be warm welcome and help for them because our entire country was a white supremacist country (by law).  

When slavery ended, there still was not a warm welcome anywhere, in fact the country was openly hostile to people of "African decent" aka "black people".  Black people who served in WWII reported that the German prisoners of war were treated better than they were, many of whom were officer, simply because they were white.

Jewish people entering the U.S. seeking escape from annihilation by Hitler were met very differently than the black people who were already here and still live here and who still are dealt with in hostility in many situations.  You keep wanting to whitewash this core difference between the Jewish people and black people in the U.S. and at this point all of the evidence points to you doing this willfully and intentionally.

I dislike what you do because you're a racist, not because you're Jewish, that's just incidental as far as I am concerned although I never could understand why someone who is Jewish and knows what it's like to be treated with hatred and have been discriminated against would then turn around and do the same thing to another group.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 28, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Are you kidding? People get defensive when they are unfairly called racist and other nasty things. I believe your latest was to call me evil.
> 
> Why are you getting so nasty all of a sudden? Could it be because all your points are proving false?


I don't know why you bother to deny it.  Why do you single out poor black people for censure Lisa?  Why are you so judgmental?


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 28, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> That's not what it said in the Wiki link.  What it said is they had to review the case repeatedly to see if charges were even appropriate.  Again, innocent until proven guilty.  What the video showed was the officer screaming at the subject repeatedly not to go near his gun. After several warnings, the officer fired in self-defense.
> 
> As a CCW holder in our state, we have strict instructions to keep your hands on top of the steering wheel until instructed otherwise when carrying a firearm so things like this don't happen.  Nearly every single one of these police shootings have one thing in common: the black subject didn't listen to the orders of the police officers.  A problem that has such a simple solution an 8 year old could solve.


Are we talking about Philando Castile?  The asshole cop had just asked him to hand him his papers (license, registration, insurance).  Then for whatever reason he had a memory lapse, forgot what he had just requested/demanded and thought Castile was reaching for his weapon.

The cop totally panicked.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 28, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> People come to this country all the time that were further behind in the race than any black today


And they're not black are they?

Did you know our government gives money to people who come to our country to help them get started?  You think maybe that helps?


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 28, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Dang those Jews! They had to come here impoverished and uneducated to escape European antisemitism, settle into cold-water city tenements, lose their families to Hitler, still face Jew-hate here in America (”we don’t want those Jew refugees…..send them back to Hitler”), and despite all this, a generation later their kids are all college graduates, and living out in the suburbs with a house of their own.
> 
> How DARE they show that people can experience horrible bigotry and recover in a single generation, and despite anti-Jew quotas keeping them from the best colleges? They’re making blacks look bad! Why couldn’t they still have a big chunk of them living in the ghetto, to prove that bigotry holds one down for generations? Some nerve they have being successful!
> 
> And the Asians aren’t much better. They also come here with nothing, set up a little shop, and a generation later - their kids all college graduates too! It’s so bad that Harvard is design personality tests to keep them out.


And still, none of you are designated as "people of African descent" aka "black people".

In spite of all of that patting yourself on the back for having escaped the plight of the black race, you're still complete dense when it comes to this glaringly obvious fact.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 28, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> More to the point, blacks have done a better job of increasing their college numbers since 1993. While white enrollment in college has only increased 12% since 1993, black enrollment has increased by 72%.


Oh look Lisa, they did EXACTLY what you wanted and you're still bitching.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 28, 2022)

monkrules said:


> Yep. Sadly, many blacks live *only* to whine for more free shit.
> 
> Self-reliance -earn your own way - are concepts shunned by too many of these *(yes,these)* folks.


Bottom of the barrel racists complaining about everyone else's business instead of minding their own.

You all are useless.  At least I used my platform to help others.  All you cretins do is criticize and sit in judgement of others while not being able to do any better.

Hypocrites.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 28, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> And he was correct.........back in the mid 60's.  But you don't live in the mid 60's today.  You live in 2022.  The study I posted did use per capita.  If you actually read it you'd know that.


Fuck you. That tired ass dodge has no merit. What King said then can be said now. And fuck the per capita crap, you racists only use it to deny that whites have the biggest problems. You pussies talk that I am an individual shit then argue about something using per 100,000. You are a grown ass man with an infant mentality. The root cause of the problems we face is white racism. I will not be blaming blacks for things I have seen white racism cause. And nobody white can tell me shit. 

*Do you understand?*


----------



## IM2 (Apr 28, 2022)

DGS49 said:


> 57% of U.S. households paid no federal income tax last year as Covid took a toll, study says
> 
> 
> More than half of Americans paid no federal income tax last year due to Covid-relief funds, tax credits and stimulus, according to a new report.
> ...



Yes white losers blame others. But since we have documented evidence of what whites have done, your dumb ass comments show that you are ignorant.

Everything you say is wrong. So I have 3 words for you:

Shut up, racist.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 28, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> *The law is not written based on race*, that is unless you can tell me that all attackers are black.


That's what you say, but you all SWEAR that the law that created affirmative action gives preference to black people when there is NOTHING in the text that says that.

It's selective enforcement of the laws.  That's pretty much why they were written in the first place, in order to target certain segments of the population but as we all know, that laws were routinely ignored, especially down south when the perpetrator was white and the victim black but were enforced with gusto when the SUSPECT was black and the victim was white.

I believe it's only within the last 50 to 60 years that a white man was executed for the first time in the U.S. for killing a black man.  I don't have the citation at my fingertips but I believe that's correct.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 28, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Thank you! Hugs and kisses back at ya!
> 
> Yes, the BLM radicals and overtly angry and racist blacks, a few of whom have graced these pages, are setting race relations back 60 years with their mishegas.


No Mrs Affirmative action racist jew. We aren't setting squat back. You will recognize or get run over. Whites will soon be a minority so it's best that you adjust your little attitude.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 28, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> One thing our government has never learned is that if you take 3/4 cup of fresh wholesome milk, mix that with 1/4 cup of sour curdled milk, you only end up with one thing, and that is a cup of bad milk.
> 
> The good never changes the bad.  The bad just makes it worse on everybody else.  My neighbor charges so much for rent that the only people stupid enough to spend that kind of money are section 8 and HUD people.  The government gives them a generous voucher and they work part-time (usually in the afternoons) to make up the difference.  Anybody paying cash would opt for a nicer suburb, but finding a HUD house in a nicer suburb is nearly impossible.  These houses are on a main street, no garages, and very little room to park.  He hasn't rented it in a year because he had to put so much money into the place from the section 8 people that destroyed it the last time.
> 
> Now he's finally showing it again, and of course to lowlifes.  Last summer when I had my security cameras installed, I put one facing right on his property in the backyard.  I'm hoping his potential renters see it and decide they don't want to live where they're being watched 24/7.  My camera DVR holds up to seven days of streaming video.  The kicker is the landlord isn't even an American.  He's from the middle-east somewhere.  Hey, if  you want to destroy other people's neighborhoods, move back to your own country and destroy them there.


Shut the fuck up idiot.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 28, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The law is not written based on race, that is unless you can tell me that all attackers are black.
> 
> Prosecutors can still bring a case to court IF they have evidence a person was not in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death,  or had reason to believe so.
> 
> ...


George Zimmerman is a punk who shot Martin because he was getting his ass handed to him in a fist fight that never would have happened had he not been stalking Martin and presented himself as a threat to him.

I have the same damn license that he has and it does not allow any of the things that you all claim it does.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 28, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> This is the problem with the black community:  Ignorance of the law.  A police officer or armed citizen need not be threatened by a subject using deadly force in order to legally use deadly force themselves.  Our laws (similar to most if not all states) reads: _*A CCW holder can legally use deadly force if they believe that they (or others) are in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death.  *_That's the law.  It applies to citizens as well as police officers.
> 
> So if an officer has reason to believe their safety or life is in jeopardy, that gives them the legal right to use a gun against an unarmed attacker.  As for your other false claim:
> 
> ...


Shut the fuck up you ignorant bastard. Whites beat up police and live.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 28, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> The police kill MORE white people than black people. True, that has more to do with the fact of 70% of the population vs. 13% of the population.


Blacks a more likely to get shot than whites and are killed at triple our population.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 28, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Blacks a more likely to get shot than whites and are killed at triple our population.


That's because the police are _taught_ and trained that black people are more prone to violence therefore we are automatically approached as a threat in most cases.

There are Supreme Court cases affirming this.  And other cases that say they can make that presumption, now how fucked up is that?  And don't expect any help from our alleged "justice" system:



> The U.S. Supreme Court rejected a Black death-row inmate’s appeal despite one of his Texas jurors believing non-whites are more dangerous than whites.​


----------



## IM2 (Apr 28, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Considering that far more blacks die at the hands of other blacks, I don't think this is something to be happy about.



Far more blacks die from stress caused by living with white racism than by other blacks.

Rav Arora of the NY Post wrote an article titled, _“These Black Lives Didn’t Seem To Matter In 2020.” _In this article, Arora sings the same racist tune we have all come to know.

Arora writes this mumbo jumbo calling himself mocking Black Lives Matter. But when we look at reality, his opinion is lacking. His beef appears to be with blacks protesting being murdered by police. He is trying to denigrate BLM because he falsely believes there is a lack of concern for the number of blacks not killed by police. He points out that over 8,600 blacks were killed in 2020 and that 90 percent of those were killed by another black. He then goes on to say this: _“Since more than 90 percent of black homicide victims are killed by black offenders, the ghost of endemic white supremacy cannot be invoked to push racial grievance narratives. As a result, the media turns a blind eye. Black lives only seem to matter when racism is involved.” _

Arora is right; the media, including him, turn a blind eye to the biggest killer of black people. For years we as black people have heard the constant lectures about black-on-black crime. People like Arora, McDonald, Carlson, Shapiro, and others have written extensively on blacks murdering blacks. Arora cites 8,600 homicides of blacks with 90 percent of those homicides committed by other blacks and believes he is making a compelling argument while calling out black organizations such as BLM to take responsibility for what he views as THE problem in the black community. So let me help Mr. Arora and others who hold similar beliefs understand the real problem.

According to the American Heart Association, hypertension-related deaths in the black community increased from 171,259 to 270,839 annually from 2000-2018. These numbers are 20 and 31 times the number of blacks who were murdered in ways that “bother” people like Arora. Most of these people died from hypertension caused by the stress of living with white racism. Racism was outlawed on paper in 1965. That makes racism a crime. Racism is a crime that continues to be perpetrated against blacks and all people of color in the United States. According to Arora, at least 90 percent of those 8,600 murders of blacks were by blacks. If you use Aroras claim as the basis, at least 7,740 blacks were killed by other blacks in 2020. He and others claim this is a number that blacks must immediately address. More than 270,000 blacks died due to hypertension in 2020, judging by the trends shown by the American Heart Association. If we are generous and conclude that just 10 percent of these deaths are directly attributed to racist actions by whites, over 27,000 such deaths in 2020 were caused by white racism. That means 3.5 times more black people died from stress induced by white racism than blacks murdering each other on the streets of America. That is white-on-black crime, and it’s a real problem that must be solved with by the white community.

*So can we please stop bringing up black on black crime to dodge issues?*


----------



## IM2 (Apr 28, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> That's because the police are _taught_ and trained that black people are more prone to violence therefore we are automatically approached as a threat in most cases.
> 
> There are Supreme Court cases affirming this.  And other cases that say they can make that presumption, now how fucked up is that?  And don't expect any help from our alleged "justice" system:


As Richard Pryor said-JUST US.

Be we are whining and blaming poor innocent whitey for "our problems."


----------



## IM2 (Apr 28, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The law is not written based on race, that is unless you can tell me that all attackers are black.
> 
> Prosecutors can still bring a case to court IF they have evidence a person was not in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death,  or had reason to believe so.
> 
> ...


Would you please shut your retarded ass up? You're lying about Mike Brown, you falsely claim blacks don't know laws, your posts are nothing but ignorant racist jibberish.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 28, 2022)

10 Facts About Beula Mae Donald, The Mom Who Took Down The Klan


> ​On March 21, 1981, in Mobile, Alabama, 19-year-old Michael Donald was kidnapped, brutally beaten, and lynched by James Knowles and Henry Francis Hays, members of the United Klans of America—an Alabama faction of the KKK, and (at the time) one of the organization's largest, and most violent, groups.​​In many ways, the brutal attack on Donald was the result of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. In the week leading up to his murder, Mobile had become a hotbed of Klan activity due to the trial of Josephus Anderson, a Black man accused of killing a white police officer during an armed robbery in nearby Birmingham. Though the jury was still in deliberations at the time of Donald's murder, the fact that some of the jury members on Anderson's trial were Black didn't sit well with the KKK. Earlier in the week, according to one of his fellow Klansmen, Hays—worried that Anderson would be allowed to walk free—had even stated that, "If a Black man can get away with killing a white man, we ought to be able to get away with killing a Black man." And with that, a plan was set in motion.​​It was late at night and Donald was walking home when he crossed paths with Knowles and Hays, who were on the hunt for a victim. They ordered Donald into their vehicle and proceeded to carry out an extremely brutal, and hours-long attack on the teen. It ended with Hays and Knowles hanging Donald's body from a tree on Herndon Avenue, just across the street from Hays's home. But it wasn't the end of Donald's story.​​_The People v. The Klan_, a four-part CNN Original Series produced by Blumhouse Television, tells the courageous story of Michael's mother, Beulah Mae Donald, who would stop at nothing to get justice for the senseless killing of her son. Here are 10 facts about the woman behind the bravery.
> 
> continued...​


----------



## Meathead (Apr 28, 2022)

You boys are really jumping up and down today. Somehow you think blacks are only failures in the US. The US has by far more successful blacks than anywhere else in the world. It's a very low bar indeed, but it's a fact all-the-same.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 28, 2022)

Ralph Norton said:


> Funny how you encourage the use of 'per capita' here but scoff at it in another thread about crime rates by race.
> Good to have options, isn't it?
> PS - putting "period" at the end of your statement doesn't make you right.


I don't encourage per capita, I'm pointing out where you guys won't use per capita. Putting a period at the end of my comment makes me right when the information in my sentence is right. Whites commit the most crime. And the fact more white are here make whites the greatest threat for committing crimes. Furthermore whites have more money, own more things and have access to more services to prevent crime but still commit the most. So your use of per capita is just a dodge.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 28, 2022)

monkrules said:


> Yep. Sadly, many blacks live *only* to whine for more free shit.
> 
> Self-reliance -earn your own way - are concepts shunned by too many of these *(yes,these)* folks.


Here we read some racist crap from a member of a race that would have little to nothing without what the government gave them.

_ "At the very same time that America refused to give the Negro any land, through an act of Congress our government was giving away millions of acres of land in the West and the Midwest, which meant it was willing to undergird its white peasants from Europe with an economic floor." 

"But not only did they give them land, they built land grant colleges with government money to teach them how to farm. Not only that, they provided county agents to further their expertise in farming. Not only that, they provided low interest rates in order that they could mechanize their farms."

"*Not only that, today many of these people are receiving millions of dollars in federal subsidies not to farm, and they are the very people telling the black man that he ought to lift himself by his own bootstraps. *And this is what we are faced with, and this is the reality."
 -_*Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.*


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 28, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> He was fking her. What do you want me to say ? There are recorded facebook messages between them.



Do you have proof of that?  



Paul Essien said:


> He didn't know the kids was in there. It wasn't murder


Legal principle- intent follows the bullet.  When this cop fired into the car, he was responsible for anyone he hit.  



Paul Essien said:


> The police are not killing unarmed white men women and children.



Except Justine Damond and Jeremy Mardis.  

Oh, wait, here are some others. 









						Did Caroline Small have to die?
					

Police shooting of Caroline Small was ’worst’ ever seen, GBI agent says. Officers were cleared in 2010 case riddled with special treatment, AJC investigation finds.



					investigations.ajc.com
				












						White woman is shot dead by cop after 'threatening to shoot him'
					

Hannah Fizer, 25, was killed on Saturday night in Sedalia, Missouri. Authorities said an unnamed sheriff's deputy shot Fizer after she claimed she had a gun and threatened to use it.




					www.dailymail.co.uk
				












						12-Year-Old Boy, Shot in the Back and Killed by Philly Police, ID'd
					

A 12-year-old shot in the back and killed by a Philadelphia police officer has been identified as Thomas Siderio.




					www.nbcphiladelphia.com
				








Paul Essien said:


> I'm not interest in changing hearts and minds. I'm about punishment. Unless you are talking about punishment. That means life with parole or minnumum 20 year sentences then don't talk.



I'm sure you want revenge for every white person who didn't put up with your shit, but really, we need to change policies and procedures to keep future events from happening.  The reality is, all things being equal, juries WILL give a police officer the benefit of the doubt.  



Paul Essien said:


> White supremacist don't get fired. they get transferred..



Except Loehmann wasn't transferred.  He has not worked in law enforcement since.  






Paul Essien said:


> He is now outta jail and only served 3 years in prison. A sentence which is far less than many people face for selling a nickle bag of weed.



I believe the judge abused his sentencing authority, but the prosecutors and jury did their job in that case.  

Also, I noticed you danced around the point that all the community activists couldn't care less about the victims of police violence until they became victims of police violence. 

I'll ask again, where was Jesse Jackson when Laquan McDonald was being abused by his drug addict mother?  When he was bounced around by DCFS?  When he was sleeping on a grate.  

If McDonald hadn't been shot by Van Dyke, today he'd be that scary homeless dude that you cross the street to avoid.  



Paul Essien said:


> Which the white supremacist cops will switch off. Eric Garner was on cam. They don't care.



Garner was a 400 lb bloat with a bad heart, who decided he could wrestle six cops.   It was stupid of the cops to arrest him for selling smokes, but it was equally stupid of him to get into a fight with them given his underlying medical conditions.  



Paul Essien said:


> And there will just be a truck load of lying white supremacist cops who will claim they mistook their taser for a gun. That's what happened to Kim Potter in the Daunte Wright killing



Except Kim Potter is going to jail.  



Paul Essien said:


> There are white supremacist beat cops, sergeants, captains, police chiefs and prosecutors who are using sheriff departments as havens and nests were white supremacist can be hired to kill black ppl and the white supremacist district attorney will back them up on it.



Which would be eliminated by cop licensing...  going back to Loehmann, the guy who shot Tamir Rice, he had been rejected by three other police departments, and a fourth was in the process of firing him, when Cleveland picked him up.   Now, maybe someone failed to do proper background checks, or maybe Cleveland is so desperate for cops that they will hire anyone. 



Paul Essien said:


> Your babbling. All you do is give them 20 or 30 years in prison without parole. That will stop it overnnight. All this legalize talk that you're doing where your trying to sound intelligence is pointless.



And then you'll have a bunch of cops who will take their sweet time responding to domestic violence and shooting incidents.   As stated, COPS ARE UNDER NO LEGAL OBLIGATION TO TRY TO SAVE YOU!   So you think they are going to rush out and try to protect people if they might end in prison if it escalates to lethal force?  Nope.  Better to wait until it's over and fill out a report.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 28, 2022)

IM2 said:


> According to the American Heart Association, hypertension-related deaths in the black community increased from 171,259 to 270,839 annually from 2000-2018. These numbers are 20 and 31 times the number of blacks who were murdered in ways that “bother” people like Arora. Most of these people died from hypertension caused by the stress of living with white racism. Racism was outlawed on paper in 1965. That makes racism a crime. Racism is a crime that continues to be perpetrated against blacks and all people of color in the United States. According to Arora, at least 90 percent of those 8,600 murders of blacks were by blacks. If you use Aroras claim as the basis, at least 7,740 blacks were killed by other blacks in 2020. He and others claim this is a number that blacks must immediately address. More than 270,000 blacks died due to hypertension in 2020, judging by the trends shown by the American Heart Association. If we are generous and conclude that just 10 percent of these deaths are directly attributed to racist actions by whites, over 27,000 such deaths in 2020 were caused by white racism. That means 3.5 times more black people died from stress induced by white racism than blacks murdering each other on the streets of America. That is white-on-black crime, and it’s a real problem that must be solved with by the white community.



Um... okay, simple enough solution to that.  Stop selling cigarettes and fried chicken in the black community, as these are obviously part of a racist conspiracy to kill black people.



Yeah, look at this white supremacist bastard... we know what you are up to! Secret Recipe indeed!  







IM2 said:


> As Richard Pryor said-JUST US.
> 
> Be we are whining and blaming poor innocent whitey for "our problems."



In another skit, Pryor said, "I've been to the prisons.  I've met the brothers.  I'M GLAD WE HAVE PRISONS!  I asked, 'why did you kill everyone in the house', and he answered "Because they was home!' "



IM2 said:


> Shut the fuck up you ignorant bastard. Whites beat up police and live.



And so do a lot of black people.  My nieces' husband is a suburban cop, and spent weeks on medical leave with a back injury because a suspect he and his partner arrested threw a fit in the back of their police car and started kicking the seats. 

Again- totally with you on the need for police reform, but the police make 10 million arrests a year and 40 million traffic stops.  Yet there are only 1000 incidents a year of lethal force being used, and MOST of those involved someone proving Darwin right by pulling a knife or a gun.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 28, 2022)

IM2 said:


> No Mrs Affirmative action racist jew. We aren't setting squat back. You will recognize or get run over. Whites will soon be a minority so it's best that you adjust your little attitude.



Works on the assumption that other minorities will continue having a pity party like blacks are doing. 

Here's the thing.  At one point, Jews, Germans, Irish, Poles, Italians, Catholics were considered undesirable minorities.  Eventually, they entered the mainstream.  I'd argue we still haven't gotten the affluence of the WASP minority. (We've only had TWO Catholic Presidents in our entire history, counting Biden).  

From what I've seen, Asians do a pretty good job entering the mainstream.   Hispanics struggle, but you get a certain number of generations down the road, and they mainstream as well, intermarry with whites and no one thinks twice about it.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 28, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Not 24 years Lisa, 24 DECADES, in other words *240 *years.
> 
> You're complaining because in your opinion, black people haven't done enough in two generations which is approximately *50* years out of over *240* years since the U.S. declared it's independence, *190* of those years in which we were legally segregated and lawfully discriminated against.
> 
> That's stupid and ridiculous.


No. I’m saying stop going back 200 years to blame the current poverty rate among blacks on racism. it’s history. All the black underclass has to do is 1) stay in school, and 2) delay babies, and the poverty rate would drop to almost nothing.

All the excuses are hurting your people. And lest you forget - the underclass is a minority among blacks. Most are living like either the white working class (not a lot of disposable income but they get by) or the comfortable middle class, and about 10% are quite affluent. That’s why the inheritance (I’ve quoted it above) between blacks and whites is virtually identical.

That there remains a small underclass of blacks is THEIR fault - not whites.

And if you think all this insistence that blacks are pulling up the rear because whites are oppressing them and are aiming for reparations, forget it. You will never see a dime.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 28, 2022)

Meathead said:


> You boys are really jumping up and down today. Somehow you think blacks are only failures in the US. The US has by far more successful blacks than anywhere else in the world. It's a very low bar indeed, but it's a fact all-the-same.


For sure! There’s a very upscale mall near me, and I stop in occasionally for a lunch. I really can’t afford to buy anything there. The stores are Chanel, Prada, Gucci, Ferragamo, etc., etc, and there are TONS of black people shopping there.

My family and I splurged on an upscale steakhouse when the COVID restrictions first lifted - after a year without going out to eat - and there were tons of blacks there.

I live in an upscale area, with expensive homes, and there are plenty of black homeowners here too. (Of course, the liberals plopped a subsidized townhouse community right in the middle, and it is all poor blacks, but that’s certainly not whites’ fault. All the women there have multiple children without husbands - their doing, not whitey’s.)


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 28, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> That's what you say, but you all SWEAR that the law that created affirmative action gives preference to black people when there is NOTHING in the text that says that.
> 
> It's selective enforcement of the laws.  That's pretty much why they were written in the first place, in order to target certain segments of the population but as we all know, that laws were routinely ignored, especially down south when the perpetrator was white and the victim black but were enforced with gusto when the SUSPECT was black and the victim was white.
> 
> I believe it's only within the last 50 to 60 years that a white man was executed for the first time in the U.S. for killing a black man.  I don't have the citation at my fingertips but I believe that's correct.


It’s been explained a zillion times, but your deluded thinking won’t allow you to process It:

The original text said nothing about blacks, specifically. But the libs aren’t adhering to that. That’s the problem! The liberal educators have applied bias to it, though, and have been favoring blacks, specifically.

It’s time to rule unconstitutional the way the libs have perverted the application of the EO, and stop favoring some students over others, on the basis of rwce.

You are going to have a meltdown when the SCOTUS comes down hard on the racism the liberals have been employing to reject better scoring whites to make room for lower scoring blacks. The two generations they’ve had of favored treatment is about to end.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 28, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Oh look Lisa, they did EXACTLY what you wanted and you're still bitching.


I have no idea what that poster said. He has said disgusting things about Jews, and I don’t listen to bigots. He‘s on ignore, but based on his earlier comments, I suspect that what the antisemite said has no relation to the truth


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 28, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Bottom of the barrel racists complaining about everyone else's business instead of minding their own.
> 
> You all are useless.  At least I used my platform to help others.  All you cretins do is criticize and sit in judgement of others while not being able to do any better.
> 
> Hypocrites.


I use my platform to educate others how to get out of poverty, using my own parents as examples: From cold-water tenements to a house in the suburbs in 10 years:

1. Stay in school and get vocational or career training 
2. No babies before marriage and able to financially provide for them

I don’t know why you think people in the black underclass are incapable of this.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 28, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> I don't know why you bother to deny it.  Why do you single out poor black people for censure Lisa?  Why are you so judgmental?


I’m singling out poor blacks because poor whites aren’t blaming RACISM for their situation. That‘s point of the thread!  I said in the OP that blacks and whites in poverty are so for the same reasons. 

As far as being judgmental, whites don’t like being blamed for something that isn’t their fault. The blacks who remain in poverty are so due to their own choices they’ve made TODAY, and TEN YEARS ago, and TWENTY years ago, and THIRTY years ago.

You say it’s “judgmental” for whites to object when they are being unfairly blamed for blacks being poor (of the minority who are)? That’s just correcting a false accusation.

Why do YOU demand that whites sit by quietly and accept blame for nothing they’ve caused In TODAY’s environment?

1) Stay in school
2) No babies before marriage


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 28, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> And they're not black are they?
> 
> Did you know our government gives money to people who come to our country to help them get started?  You think maybe that helps?


They do?? My impoverished grandparents sure didn’t get a dime to help them get started. Their kids still managed to all graduate from college, and some even had the motivation to get a grad degree.

From drinking watered-down soup and day-old bread for dinner to the middle class in a single generation!


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 28, 2022)

Vine needs to stop calling people racist for refusing to submit to the false blame of racism for the black underclass.

Thats so typical of leftists today - and not just blacks. To them, no criticism of blacks is allowed, including pointing out ways the underclass could improve their situation. The only thing they permit is some version of “it’s because whites have oppressed blacks and blacks are victims.”

All the blacks I see at the expensive steakhouses and upscale stores near where I live sure don’t feel like victims! They are probably embarrassed when they hear “racism from 200 years ago is why blacks ar e poor!” GMAFB.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Here we read some racist crap from a member of a race that would have little to nothing without what the government gave them.
> 
> _ "At the very same time that America refused to give the Negro any land, through an act of Congress our government was giving away millions of acres of land in the West and the Midwest, which meant it was willing to undergird its white peasants from Europe with an economic floor."
> 
> ...



You are not making any points when you have to go back a few generations to make them.  Talk about today, like when the Communists wanted to bailout minority farmers only and to hell with the white farmers. 









						Judge halts Biden’s $4B financial aid program for farmers of color
					

A federal judge has stopped a nearly $4 billion Biden Administration effort intended to provide debt relief to minority farmers, noting that the program doesn’t consider the financial status …




					nypost.com


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2022)

IM2 said:


> I don't encourage per capita, I'm pointing out where you guys won't use per capita. Putting a period at the end of my comment makes me right when the information in my sentence is right. Whites commit the most crime. And the fact more white are here make whites the greatest threat for committing crimes. Furthermore whites have more money, own more things and have access to more services to prevent crime but still commit the most. So your use of per capita is just a dodge.



A lie as always from you leftists.  Blacks commit the most crime on every level, and using our population size doesn't change that.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Would you please shut your retarded ass up? You're lying about Mike Brown, you falsely claim blacks don't know laws, your posts are nothing but ignorant racist jibberish.



If blacks knew the laws there wouldn't have been any riots. The comment made by your buddy Paul insinuated that unarmed blacks that got killed by police (and armed citizens) was because they were white.  No, the reason they got away with it is because there was nothing to get away with.  Our laws state you can use deadly force against an armed or unarmed attacker or suspect.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Shut the fuck up you ignorant bastard. Whites beat up police and live.



I posted the statistics.  If you don't like them, that doesn't make them wrong.  It makes you wrong.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> George Zimmerman is a punk who shot Martin because he was getting his ass handed to him in a fist fight that never would have happened had he not been stalking Martin and presented himself as a threat to him.
> 
> I have the same damn license that he has and it does not allow any of the things that you all claim it does.



Trust me, I studied the case carefully.  Martin was a punk.  He was living with his father and his girlfriend because his mother couldn't take him any longer after his second suspension from school.  

Zimmerman ran after Martin for about 15 seconds where Martin easily outran Zimmerman.  Zimmerman stayed on the phone with police dispatch for another minute.  When he hung up the phone, Martin was hiding and waiting for the opportunity to attack him.  He didn't bother to try to leave the complex, he didn't even try to walk home, he didn't even try to call police himself, he hid behind the Bushes in the dark.  

You don't have any license.  If you did you'd know what the laws are.  I do have a license, and in our 10 hour class they focused mostly on those laws.  The written test had to be passed by 100%.  To say the laws don't allow what Zimmerman did clearly exposes you never had a license to carry a gun; either that or your state failed in their curriculum.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> That's what you say, but you all SWEAR that the law that created affirmative action gives preference to black people when there is NOTHING in the text that says that.
> 
> It's selective enforcement of the laws.  That's pretty much why they were written in the first place, in order to target certain segments of the population but as we all know, that laws were routinely ignored, especially down south when the perpetrator was white and the victim black but were enforced with gusto when the SUSPECT was black and the victim was white.
> 
> I believe it's only within the last 50 to 60 years that a white man was executed for the first time in the U.S. for killing a black man.  I don't have the citation at my fingertips but I believe that's correct.



That's likely because blacks mostly kill blacks and whites mostly kill whites. 

Let's look at the largest domestic terror attack of last year.  A black guy and renown racist BLM supporter drove to an all white area where a parade was being held.  He used his car to hit over 50 white people, killing 6 of them including an 8 year old white child.  It disappeared from the news in less than a week.  Unless you really look around, nobody even knows what happened to this terrorist.

Do you think he will be charged with a hate crime?  Do you think he will even face the death penalty?  It will be such a buried story we will probably never know.  Now can you put your hand on the Holy Bible and swear to me that if this was a white attacker that went to an all black area to kill as many blacks as possible, it would be ignored like this story is?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Fuck you. That tired ass dodge has no merit. What King said then can be said now. And fuck the per capita crap, you racists only use it to deny that whites have the biggest problems. You pussies talk that I am an individual shit then argue about something using per 100,000. You are a grown ass man with an infant mentality. The root cause of the problems we face is white racism. I will not be blaming blacks for things I have seen white racism cause. And nobody white can tell me shit.
> 
> *Do you understand?*



What I understand is that you are very angry.  This happens to a lot of people when they are proven wrong and have no defense of the argument.  No, what was said 60 years ago does not apply today because so many things have changed since then.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> And they're not black are they?
> 
> Did you know our government gives money to people who come to our country to help them get started?  You think maybe that helps?



No I don't.  I talked to these people.  Government doesn't just hand them money because they're foreigners.  What drives them is they actually know what poverty is.  They came from countries where if you were born poor, that's exactly how you're going to stay no matter what you do.  They came from countries where they had to dig a hole in the ground to take a shit.  They didn't have big screens, smart phones, internet and cable like our so-called poor have in this country. 

When they came here they did so because you can work your way to success.  You can work as many hours as you like, have several jobs, safe places you can keep the money you earn, and the availability to borrow money you need to make your dreams come true.  You can use that money for education, to make financial investments, to open up your own business which many do.  They don't need the newest smart phone, the latest car model, or the highest price apartment or house they can afford.   They grew up without any of those things. 

The difference between being born here and born in another country is like the difference between being born in a rich family or born in a working class family.  When you're born rich, you don't value money as much.  If you were born working class and hit the lottery for 5 million dollars, it changes your entire life.  We are born here so we take everything and every opportunity for granted.  When people come from countries where there were no opportunities, they hit the lottery, value everything they never had before, and take advantage of every second of it.





__





						Do New Immigrant Businesses Pay Corporate Taxes the First Five Years in the U.S.?
					

Do New Immigrant Businesses Pay Corporate Taxes the First Five Years in the U.S.?. America has a rich tradition of immigrant entrepreneurship. About 1-in-6 new U.S. businesses is started by immigrants, and more than 40 percent of the companies in the Fortune 500 were founded by immigrants or the...




					smallbusiness.chron.com


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Are we talking about Philando Castile?  The asshole cop had just asked him to hand him his papers (license, registration, insurance).  Then for whatever reason he had a memory lapse, forgot what he had just requested/demanded and thought Castile was reaching for his weapon.
> 
> The cop totally panicked.



No, apparently he asked for his license and then seen a gun, told him to stay away from it, and when he put his hand near the gun, the officer shot.  At that point the guy should have just stopped moving or put his hands on top of the steering wheel, but he insisted he was going to get his license (if that's what he was really reaching for) in spite of the officers concern and a gun pointed right at him.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Ray From Cleveland
> *The law is not written based on race, that is unless you can tell me that all attackers are black.*
> 
> All lawas are racial based.
> ...



So where did I say because I am white?  You leftists read things and if you don't like what you're reading, make up your own words and claim it's ours.  And oh, BTW, Zimmerman too is a minority.  He's half Hispanic and half white.


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 28, 2022)

JoeB131 
*Also, I noticed you danced around the point that all the community activists couldn't care less about the victims of police violence until they became victims of police violence.*

There are plenty of black people and countless organizations, activists and movements dedicated to curbing violence in black communities.

The number of _“Stop the Violence”_ marches dwarfs the demonstrations against police brutality. Unity rallies and peace picnics happen every day.

Scared Straight programs for at-risk youths, gang counseling, neighborhood watches, intervention specialists, youth counselors.

There have been movements like the #NeverAgain campaign which was led by Black youth in the aftermath of the Parkland, Florida school shooting. Those young people were protesting against gun violence and advocating for gun control.

the men of Alpha Phi Alpha, the nation's oldest black Greek-letter fraternity, marching down 79th Street regularly to protest shootings in Chatham?

How about the army of mothers in Englewood who gather at the scene of every shooting and patrol the streets of their neighborhood on foot?

And what about the annual peace march in Grand Crossing that draws hundreds of South Siders onto the streets at the start of the school year?

And the Nation Of Islam and Louis Farrakhan is someone whose community work with young black men has been constructive where many other efforts to reach them have failed. 

Now what you doing ? Tell me.

JoeB131 
*I'll ask again, where was Jesse Jackson when Laquan McDonald was being abused by his drug addict mother? When he was bounced around by DCFS? When he was sleeping on a grate.*

Crazy question. Laquan McDonald was killed by a white supremacist cop not because he may or may not have had drug addicted mother

And if you are sick Jesse Jackson always out front whenever white racism pops up.

There’s an easy way to solve that problem.

Do the work yourselves.

If whites were willing to stand up and condemn the racism in your community then Jackson wouldn’t have to be the ones leading the rally. 

But that’s the problem: most whites do nothing in the face of racism. Most of whites don’t speak up, don’t talk back, don’t challenge family, friends, colleagues. You sit back and remain silent. No wonder black leaders like Jackson end up being the faces of resistance: u aren’t showing up at all, so what are blk ppl supposed to do?

It's is white silence that has always made racism possible. 

JoeB131 
*And then you'll have a bunch of cops who will take their sweet time responding to domestic violence and shooting incidents.*

They do anyway and we are tax payers. We or I pay for the police.

It's about punishing that's how you get them tact right and if the police know that if they unjustly kill black people they'll spend 20 or 30 years in jail means they're gonna act like a child and do the_ "It's my ball...I'm going home"_ routine then they are not the types of cops I want in black commmunityies

JoeB131 
*As stated, COPS ARE UNDER NO LEGAL OBLIGATION TO TRY TO SAVE YOU! *

What are babbling about ? The police are not all that interested in protecting or saving the lives and property of poor black people. Not as interested as they are in protecting rich white people or even not-all-that-rich white people. They will even protect white foreigners over black Americans.

What we want is to get rid of the white supremacist cops in law enforcment 






Also get rid of all this coddling like babies they give to these killer cops because what happens is this

They get administrative leave: paid vacation.

Then there's the blue wall of silence: the so-called good cops do not speak out against bad ones.

Then the press presents the police account as more or less true while demonizing the dead blk victim, poisoning any possible jury.

Then they have an investigation which is carried out by the police themselves, which amounts to a cover-up.

Then the medical examiner examines the body for cause and manner of death. The medical examiners are in bed with the police, even making up stuff found in no medical book.

Then the public prosecutor is almost always in bed with the police. 

Then the prosecutor presents the investigation / cover-up to a secret grand jury. No press, no public, not even lawyers from the victim’s family are allowed. That keeps it out of the news. It also means the grand jury hears only the police side of the story. So they rarely bring an indictment of charges.

The trial jury will almost always have white people on it who, like you, have a sickeningly childlike belief in the honesty of the police. That means even if there are some sensible Black people, the jury will at best deadlock, letting the killer cop walk free. 

The Judges are unwilling to second-guess the police.

The US Department of Justice: Have they ever sent a killer cop to prison?

Civil lawsuit brought by the victim’s family for damages. Rarely affects the killer cop or the police since any damages are paid by taxpayers.

*The five magic words* - _“I feared for my life.” _Almost always gets them off. They do not even have to see a gun to be believed, just _think_ they saw one. And if the victim is Black, even that is unnecessary: the Black Brute stereotype, held by news reporters, jurors and helicopter pilots, will do the rest. 

Case closed.

JoeB131 
*Which would be eliminated by cop licensing... going back to Loehmann, the guy who shot Tamir Rice, he had been rejected by three other police departments, and a fourth was in the process of firing him, when Cleveland picked him up. Now, maybe someone failed to do proper background checks, or maybe Cleveland is so desperate for cops that they will hire anyone.*

Cleveland wasn't desparate. Killing black people especially innocent blk ppl get's respect in law enforcement. 

Loehmann fully decided and intended to murder Tamir Rice for sport. He get's out of his care and starts blasting within two seconds. The thousand or so different white supremacist hate groups operating in the U.S. (the number more than doubled after Obama was elected) have had the agenda of infiltrating law enforcement which already attracts the ‘Archie Bunker’ mentality. I

JoeB131 
*Except Kim Potter is going to jail.*

16 months in jail ?  





White women tears prevail again

this is why I don't dance, scream and shout just cause there is a guilty verdict.  Forwhites, there's a different, let's try to find the loophole to give them a sympathy break. america, america, God shed his grace on thee (white people).

Had that been a black female cop who shot a scared white teenager she would have been given 25 years. 








white woman tears prevail again.

Once again. Minimum 20 year sentence. But white people will always protect each when it comes to killing black people.


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 28, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So where did I say because I am white?  You leftists read things and if you don't like what you're reading, make up your own words and claim it's ours.  And oh, BTW, Zimmerman too is a minority.  He's half Hispanic and half white.


what race are you ?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> what race are you ?



Why would it matter what race I was?  I am white, but don't use my race as a crutch like the rest of you do here.  I'm talking about law and you're talking about race since you have no argument of the laws even with your six page replies.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 28, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> No, apparently he asked for his license and then seen a gun, told him to stay away from it, and when he put his hand near the gun, the officer shot.  At that point the guy should have just stopped moving or put his hands on top of the steering wheel, but he insisted he was going to get his license (if that's what he was really reaching for) in spite of the officers concern and a gun pointed right at him.


What I would like to add is that whenever blacks insist how victimized they are, they always bring up the same six or seven blacks, over a period of years, who MIGHT have been killed by a cop who jumped the gun. That it happens so rarely, given that cops have 50 million encounters with people every year, with many of them stoned, drunk, belligerent, or defiant, is testimony to cops’ restraint.

i wish I could find a graphic of 50 million of something, and then compare it to 10 or 12 of the same something, and that would illustrate how cops’ killing unarmed blacks who are not threatening them is ritually nil.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 28, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> You are are evil because you knowingly present lies as facts in order to hurt others.  Even though you have been shown where you have been mistaken, you ignore that information and continue on with you crusade against poor black.


Stopped with your disgusting “you are evil” remark. You’re a disgusting racist, who ignores what is being explained to you because it doesn’t fit your biased narrative.

I’m not going to waste any more time on a resentful black woman who calls whites “evil” because they won’t go Along with the falsehood that racism is the reason for poor blacks. If it were, there won’t be all these middle class and affluent blacks.

And P.S. Calling white people “evil” because they point out that racism doesn’t explain black poverty, but rather points out that it is poor choices, isn’t going to win whites over to your side. And you NEED whites on your side.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 28, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland

i will address my comment to you because that resentful black woman is so angry at whites who don’t go along with the “blacks are poor because of whitey” narrative that she can’t process the most basic discussion. (She’s too busy yelling “you’re evil” at those who won’t submit to leftist propganda.)

She keeps going back to the fact that there’s nothing in the original EO that says to give blacks, specifically, special advantages. And that’s the point! The liberals in the education field have taken it among themselves to pervert the text, and yes….single out blacks for special favortism. That is why you see blacks with a 3.2 and OKish scores get into programs where whites with a 3.7 and excellent scores get laughed out of the place.

So while the original text wasn’t racist in favor of blacks, the application of the law has been - and it’s been going on for 40 years. Enough is enough.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 28, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> And still, none of you are designated as "people of African descent" aka "black people".
> 
> In spite of all of that patting yourself on the back for having escaped the plight of the black race, you're still complete dense when it comes to this glaringly obvious fact.


You are in complete denial, and lashing out with the “you’re evil!”…..  ”you’re racist!” nasty shit simply because I won’t submit to YOUR falsehood that bigotry explain why blacks remain poor (of the minority who do).

And I am not not “patting ourselves for escaping the plight of blacks.” I am showing how making the right choices, valuing the correct things, following through and getting an education, and not having babies out of wedlock allows one to overcome bigotry and move from poverty to the middle class. And you are FURIOUS that I point out this very obvious fact.

And this is the 4th time I’ve asked: if racism is why (some) blacks are poor, then why are most NOT poor? What was so different about them?  (Answer: they made the right choices.)


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> What I would like to add is that whenever blacks insist how victimized they are, they always bring up the same six or seven blacks, over a period of years, who MIGHT have been killed by a cop who jumped the gun. That it happens so rarely, given that cops have 50 million encounters with people every year, with many of them stoned, drunk, belligerent, or defiant, is testimony to cops’ restraint.
> 
> i wish I could find a graphic of 50 million of something, and then compare it to 10 or 12 of the same something, and that would illustrate how cops’ killing unarmed blacks who are not threatening them is ritually nil.



it's not so much that, it's that white suspects are killed by police at a much higher rate than blacks.  Furthermore unarmed whites are shot and killed by police at nearly the same rate as blacks.  The difference is the media doesn't report on shootings of white suspects, only blacks.  That leads the public to believe these shootings never happen to white suspects.

The media is not there to tell the entire story, the media is there to make money.  If they reported how a white got shot by a police officer, we whites shrug our shoulders and say "the asshole must have deserved it!"  So there is no business sense in making an issue out of it.  

If they report on a black getting shot and killed, especially an unarmed black, they stand a chance at making big bucks.  Protests could form, riots can break out, stores being burned or looted.  It all makes for great advertising dollars.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 28, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> it's not so much that, it's that white suspects are killed by police at a much higher rate than blacks.  Furthermore unarmed whites are shot and killed by police at nearly the same rate as blacks.  The difference is the media doesn't report on shootings of white suspects, only blacks.  That leads the public to believe these shootings never happen to white suspects.
> 
> The media is not there to tell the entire story, the media is there to make money.  If they reported how a white got shot by a police officer, we whites shrug our shoulders and say "the asshole must have deserved it!"  So there is no business sense in making an issue out of it.
> 
> If they report on a black getting shot and killed, especially an unarmed black, they stand a chance at making big bucks.  Protests could form, riots can break out, stores being burned or looted.  It all makes for great advertising dollars.


That too.

If the media reported honestly, though, we’d have President Trump in office right now. EVERYTHING they did for the past two years - from hiding the Hunter laptop story, to hiding everything Trump did in response to COVID (he was looking so good in the daily press conferences that CNN refused to cover them), to making the Floyd death all about racism - was to get Trump out of office.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 28, 2022)

Lisa558 






NO BABIES FOR YOU!!!!!


----------



## Prof.Lunaphile (Apr 28, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The reason for poverty among blacks who remain poor (most are working class or above) is the same reason that whites in poverty remain poor. It is due to having babies while still in one’s teens, without a husband, and often without completing high school as a result.
> 
> Anyone can break free of poverty by doing the following, at a minimum:
> 
> 1) If you have sex while in high school (not everyone does, by the way), use birth control consistently. Double up, even, because a pregnancy at this stage of life will likely result in a life of financial struggle. Thus, your chance of an unwanted pregnancy drops from “probably” to about 1 in 200.



High school is a white people's thing. So your whole premise is biased suggesting that high school is an altruistic humanity thing. It is not. High school is a white people's social construct to keep non-whites down.

Did black people ever have "high school"?


Lisa558 said:


> 2) Unencumbered by a baby, complete high school and then use a Pell Grant to get a free community college education focused on a vocational track. That right there moves you into the lower-middle class.



Community college is a white thing. Vocation is a white thing.

Did black people ever have "community college"? Did black people ever have  "vocation"?


Lisa558 said:


> That’s it. Race is not a factor. In fact, the only two poor people I interact with on a consistent basis are white women both had babies (one at 15 and one at 17) and did not complete high school.


You are a racist.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 28, 2022)

Prof.Lunaphiles said:


> High school is a white people's thing. So your whole premise is biased suggesting that high school is an altruistic humanity thing. It is not. High school is a white people's social construct to keep non-whites down.
> 
> Did black people ever have "high school"?
> 
> ...


Having an education or getting training for a job is a white thing! Oye. With crap being spewed like that, no wonder there remains a black underclass. Getting a high school diploma is a white thing,

You‘re really crazy.


----------



## Ralph Norton (Apr 28, 2022)

Prof.Lunaphiles said:


> High school is a white people's thing. So your whole premise is biased suggesting that high school is an altruistic humanity thing. It is not. High school is a white people's social construct to keep non-whites down.
> 
> Did black people ever have "high school"?
> 
> ...


You are an idiot.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 28, 2022)

Ralph Norton said:


> You are an idiot.


I think that idiot must have been on the Board of the African-American Museum that had an exhibit saying the following attributes were also a white thing: being polite, keeping to a schedule, respecting authority, speaking English well, and working hard.

The real question is: why are liberals trying to deny the very things that would help black people do better in life?


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 28, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Works on the assumption that other minorities will continue having a pity party like blacks are doing.
> 
> Here's the thing.  At one point, Jews, Germans, Irish, Poles, Italians, Catholics were considered undesirable minorities.  Eventually, they entered the mainstream.  I'd argue we still haven't gotten the affluence of the WASP minority. (We've only had TWO Catholic Presidents in our entire history, counting Biden).
> 
> From what I've seen, Asians do a pretty good job entering the mainstream.   Hispanics struggle, but you get a certain number of generations down the road, and they mainstream as well, intermarry with whites and no one thinks twice about it.


Yeah, we will be a minority to Latinos who hate blacks for more than any white does.  We will be slightly less than fifty percent and you will still be thirteen percent to a majority that absolutely despises you and has no guilt for you to play upon.  It will really suck to be Black then.  Think the Jim Crow South was bad?  Just wait for the Latino nation to take over.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 28, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> And the Nation Of Islam and Louis Farrakhan is someone whose community work with young black men has been constructive where many other efforts to reach them have failed.
> 
> Now what you doing ? Tell me.



Farakhan is a thug.   

I'm not the one with a problem.  It's really not incumbent on me to "fix" a problem I don't have.  I think we do need to fix police misconduct and we need police reform...  

We also need to fix underlying social problems that the police are often the last line in fixing.   There was a whole echelon of family, social services, schools, etc. that failed Laquan McDonald long before he was shot. 



Paul Essien said:


> Crazy question. Laquan McDonald was killed by a white supremacist cop not because he may or may not have had drug addicted mother



Actually, there's no doubt that McDonald's mother, Tina Hunter (how is it they all have different last names than their mothers?) was into drugs.  That's why DCFS took him out of the home. OH, and she was 14 when he was born.  









						The Complicated, Short Life Of Laquan McDonald
					

CHICAGO — When Laquan McDonald was nearly 16 and locked up again in a juvenile detention center, he tried to brush aside the challenges of his complicated life.



					www.swtimes.com
				






Paul Essien said:


> And if you are sick Jesse Jackson always out front whenever white racism pops up.



I live in Chicago, I'm old enough to remember him waiving the bloody shirt, or how he used to brag about spitting in white people's soup and serving it with a smile.  



Paul Essien said:


> But that’s the problem: most whites do nothing in the face of racism. Most of whites don’t speak up, don’t talk back, don’t challenge family, friends, colleagues. You sit back and remain silent. No wonder black leaders like Jackson end up being the faces of resistance: u aren’t showing up at all, so what are blk ppl supposed to do?



Did you miss the part where I said my brother and I haven't been on speaking terms for five years because of the McDonald Case.  Or how I challenge Ray and Lisa on their racism on a regular basis.  I'm starting to wonder if it is worth it to challenge people, or even take your side, given I get very little gratitude for doing so. I'd rather focus my efforts on where they ARE appreciated, thank you. 



Paul Essien said:


> They do anyway and we are tax payers. We or I pay for the police.
> 
> It's about punishing that's how you get them tact right and if the police know that if they unjustly kill black people they'll spend 20 or 30 years in jail means they're gonna act like a child and do the_ "It's my ball...I'm going home"_ routine then they are not the types of cops I want in black commmunityies



If punishment was a 'deterrent', then how do we have 2 million people in prison?  

The risk of 20 years of prison might make them a lot less likely to engage a suspect. 



Paul Essien said:


> What are babbling about ? The police are not all that interested in protecting or saving the lives and property of poor black people. Not as interested as they are in protecting rich white people or even not-all-that-rich white people. They will even protect white foreigners over black Americans.



White foreigners don't need to be protected from each other when they visit, that's the thing. 



Paul Essien said:


> Cleveland wasn't desparate. Killing black people especially innocent blk ppl get's respect in law enforcement.
> 
> Loehmann fully decided and intended to murder Tamir Rice for sport. He get's out of his care and starts blasting within two seconds. The thousand or so different white supremacist hate groups operating in the U.S. (the number more than doubled after Obama was elected) have had the agenda of infiltrating law enforcement which already attracts the ‘Archie Bunker’ mentality. I



First, how do you know what was in Lohmann's mind?  I've been arguing the Rice case with Ray for years here.   Frankly, I haven't found one shred of evidence the man (Lohmann, not Ray) had animosity towards black people.  All the evidence we do have is that he was emotionally immature and unfit to be a police officer.  Which if Cleveland had bothered to do even a minimal background check, they'd have found out.  

Oh, Cleveland does have a police shortage.   









						Where the shortage of Cleveland police officers is affecting you most: I-Team
					

The FOX 8 I-Team has uncovered a new report showing how a chronic shortage of officers is affecting Cleveland police working to keep you safe.




					fox8.com
				







Paul Essien said:


> Had that been a black female cop who shot a scared white teenager she would have been given 25 years.



Do you have an actual case where a black police officer accidently shot a white suspect because she mistook her gun for a taser?  



Paul Essien said:


> 16 months in jail ?



About the same amount of time one of the cops who shot Jeremy Mardis got.  

During a struggle, she mistook a gun for a taser.   If Duante Wrights' full criminal record had been shown to the court, I doubt she have gotten that long.  They didn't get to see the four file boxes of juvenile records for Laquan McDonald, they didn't get to hear about the woman who George Floyd robbed at gunpoint during a home invasion. 









						Daunte Wright victims tell of his violent past
					

Before Daunte Wright was shot and killed by now former Minnesota police officer Kim Potter, he terrorized his local neighborhood for several years, victims told DailyMail.com.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 28, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Yeah, we will be a minority to Latinos who hate blacks for more than any white does. We will be slightly less than fifty percent and you will still be thirteen percent to a majority that absolutely despises you and has no guilt for you to play upon. It will really suck to be Black then. Think the Jim Crow South was bad? Just wait for the Latino nation to take over.



I wouldn't go that far.   I've always  felt "Latino/Hispanic" was a largely artificial racial classification to start with.  Are you still "Hispanic" if no one in your family speaks Spanish anymore?  

I put it out there because when my Grandparents came to this country from Germany because their little village was occupied by the hated French between the World Wars, it was pretty much the height of anti-German sentiment. 

My dad married a non-German woman, largely forgot how to speak German, I attempted to learn it in college and frankly gave myself a headache.  So am I a German-American, or just plain old American? 

This is why I don't worry so much about "Latinos" pushing white into the minority.  Or Asians, that much. Heck, I worked in an office with three Asian women, and two of them were married to white dudes.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 28, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Having an education or getting training for a job is a white thing! Oye. With crap being spewed like that, no wonder there remains a black underclass. Getting a high school diploma is a white thing,
> 
> You‘re really crazy.


I think he is being sarcastic.  At least I hope he is.u


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 28, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> I think he is being sarcastic.  At least I hope he is.u


I would hope so, but then again…..the Smithsonian exhibit wasn’t being sarcastic when it said that said being polite and working hard was a white thing. So who knows with these leftists?


----------



## monkrules (Apr 28, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Stopped with your disgusting “you are evil” remark. You’re a disgusting racist, who ignores what is being explained to you because it doesn’t fit your biased narrative.
> 
> I’m not going to waste any more time on a resentful black woman who calls whites “evil” because they won’t go Along with the falsehood that racism is the reason for poor blacks. If it were, there won’t be all these middle class and affluent blacks.
> 
> And P.S. Calling white people “evil” because they point out that racism doesn’t explain black poverty, but rather points out that it is poor choices, isn’t going to win whites over to your side. And you NEED whites on your side.


Lisa, you and Ray deserve medals. For your logic, patience, and endurance.

I've long had im2, essien(sp), and vine on ignore. Their non-stop whining and excuse-making, make me want to puke.

I sometimes wish I could write in gentler terms, but the truth is vitally important - but not always easy to discuss.

Essen and Vine both write long-winded posts. Lots of words, few of value. Always filled with rationalizations, accusations, and blatant excuses. Nothing is EVER the fault of blacks. They have no control over their decisions and actions. They are like mistreated pets, completely controlled by whitey, according to these three. 

There's a rather mean old saying that seems to fit perfectly, here. It says that "Blacks can be trained, but not taught." 

Many old sayings are based on more than a grain of undeniable truth.

The Iggie list can save users from a lot of needless headaches. Lol...


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 28, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> That's likely because blacks mostly kill blacks and whites mostly kill whites.
> 
> Let's look at the largest domestic terror attack of last year.  A black guy and renown racist BLM supporter drove to an all white area where a parade was being held.  He used his car to hit over 50 white people, killing 6 of them including an 8 year old white child.  It disappeared from the news in less than a week.  Unless you really look around, nobody even knows what happened to this terrorist.
> 
> Do you think he will be charged with a hate crime?  Do you think he will even face the death penalty?  It will be such a buried story we will probably never know.  Now can you put your hand on the Holy Bible and swear to me that if this was a white attacker that went to an all black area to kill as many blacks as possible, it would be ignored like this story is?


I guarantee you they won’t be televising the trial, like they did with Kyle Rittenhouse - to make an example of the white boy who interfered with BLM’s destruction.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 28, 2022)

monkrules said:


> Lisa, you and Ray deserve medals. For your logic, patience, and endurance.
> 
> I've long had im2, essien(sp), and vine on ignore. Their non-stop whining and excuse-making, make me want to puke.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I’ve had IM2 and Eisen on ignore for a while, but I was trying to make some headway with Vine. Her latest tantrum, in which she called me “evil” was the last straw, and I‘m not wasting any more time on such a nasty libtard.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 28, 2022)

monkrules said:


> Lisa, you and Ray deserve medals. For your logic, patience, and endurance.
> 
> I've long had im2, essien(sp), and vine on ignore. Their non-stop whining and excuse-making, make me want to puke.
> 
> ...


Also…..you notice how she won’t answer the question: if racism “causes” a subset of blacks to remain in poverty, why then are most blacks NOT in poverty?


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 28, 2022)

JoeB131
*Do you have an actual case where a black police officer accidently shot a white suspect because she mistook her gun for a taser?*

Cops don't handle white people with an iron fist based on preconceived notions of them being drug crazed, naturally stronger thugs with a tendency towards criminality and violence.

What I can say is, if a black cop did shoot an unarmed white person (without valid justification), it would definitely make the news; if only to use the one incident as a way of discrediting the thousand white cop/dead black man cases we've heard about over the years.

Here's a few things we wouldn't see

The cop automatically heralded as a hero in the news
The white guy automatically portrayed as a villain
The white guys rap sheet listed on the front page news to use his previous transgressions as an excuse for his current death
GoFundMe accounts filled overnight with hundreds of thousands of dollars. For the black cop
Fox news reports calling the white guy a thug
All Lives Matters groups protesting just to shut down any conversation about the senseless killing
Fake news of a different white person committing a crime to explain why this one had to be put down
Talk of the 80% white-on-white crime rate as a justification for the cop's actions
Withheld footage of the shooting
Preemptive use of military forces to stifle the First Amendment right to protest
DOJ findings of numerous violations against whites by black police officers
Thousands of black people protesting in favor of the black cop
Blue Lives Matter protesting in favor of the Black cop
JoeB131
*During a struggle, she mistook a gun for a taser. If Duante Wrights' full criminal record had been shown to the court, I doubt she have gotten that long. They didn't get to see the four file boxes of juvenile records for Laquan McDonald, they didn't get to hear about the woman who George Floyd robbed at gunpoint during a home invasion.*

Daunte Wright was killed because he was black.
Laquan MdDonald was killed because he was black.
George Floyd was killed because he was black
*Everything else is irrelevant.*

Whatever they may have done in their lives had no bearing on their encounters at the given moment with the officers.

All that matters is what they are doing at that moment, and whether it endangered the lives of the officer or another person — something that should be evaluated by independent fact-finders, not D.A.s who work hand-in-glove with police every day.

If their actions did endanger the officer’s life or that of another person, then you would'nt need to look into old arrests and troubles.

*The search for the perfect victim is as impossible. *

It is impossible because few who get to adulthood make it there without having done something about which they'd prefer others not know.

But unless some one has a relatively spotless record, they should'nt expect safety or even the luxury of another breath ?

*Then why even have trials ?*

By your logic, we should simply check to see if people arrested have a record already, and if so, pronounce them guilty on the spot.

*But you only hold out such impossible standards for black people. Don't you ?*

.@JoeB131
*Did you miss the part where I said my brother and I haven't been on speaking terms for five years because of the McDonald Case.*





Is that how low the bar is for white people ?

You're not supposed to shoot unarmed blk ppl who pose no threat to you16 times. I'm not gonna give credit to a person for doing something they're not supposed to do.

You still try to justify Macdonald's death with the usual white character assainations and then you ask for gratitude ?





And then you go into protective mode about Van Dyke.





 is there a handgun that can fire 16 rounds w/o reloading.  I’ll have to ask gun owning friends.

JoeB131
*Or how I challenge Ray and Lisa on their racism on a regular basis. *

All I know this. If I'm in court and you Lisa558 and Ray From Cleveland are on the jury ?

*I'm fked.*

Sure you'll beef with each other but when it comes to mistreating blk ppl ? You'll drop your swords and be on the same page.

JoeB131
*I'm starting to wonder if it is worth it to challenge people, or even take your side*

So you're gonna wimp out ?

There was a white guy called Joshua Solomon who in 1999 changed himself from black to white.
He felt that many black people used racism as an an excuse. He was like you and a lot of ppl on USMB. He was one of those _"racism explainers"._

He went to a doctor who gave him pills to turn his white skin brown.

He shaved the hair off his head but dressed the same, acted the same, talked the same. and he had the same money and education.

This is him.






*But by the second day he was in tears*.

He was going to do it for about 4 months around the country.

The police would stop him for walking down the street. Restaurants would tell him they were full, even when they were not. Whites viewed him with 24-7 hostility.

_*After one week he was done*_*.*

It was just too much! He went back home to let the pills wear off and turn white again. _*Clicks heels three times.*_






Oprah did a programme about it.



*Like you he wimped out when it got too much.*

JoeB131
*given I get very little gratitude for doing so. I'd rather focus my efforts on where they ARE appreciated, thank you*

You don't get gratitude for trying to justify why a 10 year black kid deserved to die





You'd get gratitude if you could show me receipts of the work you have done to assist in the black liberation struggle that works within your *OWN* white community where the main decisions are made that negatively affects black people.

The decisions that bring about the bias, the discrimination that affects blacks; all those decision are not made in the ghettoes of black America. They are made in the burbs because it is the people who look like you who makes those decisions

You'd get gratitude if you were prepared to show humility and be ready to get the brunt of the criticism. You may have to listen to the angry black voices and be prepared to be criticized and rejected and not trusted.

*That's part of the price of the ticket back to justice.*

Instesd you spend all your time disagreeing with me and IM2 on everything and you wonder we think your full of shit


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 28, 2022)

Lisa558 
*Also…..you notice how she won’t answer the question: if racism “causes” a subset of blacks to remain in poverty, why then are most blacks NOT in poverty?*

Because we achieve IN SPITE of racism not because of it. But the system itself should not be there.


----------



## Zincwarrior (Apr 28, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The reason for poverty among blacks who remain poor (most are working class or above) is the same reason that whites in poverty remain poor. It is due to having babies while still in one’s teens, without a husband, and often without completing high school as a result.
> 
> Anyone can break free of poverty by doing the following, at a minimum:
> 
> ...


What's the reason for poverty in whites?


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 28, 2022)

Zincwarrior said:


> What's the reason for poverty in whites?


I said what is was in my OP: it’s the same regardless of race.

1) Having babies as an unwed teen
2) Dropping at of school


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I guarantee you they won’t be televising the trial, like they did with Kyle Rittenhouse - to make an example of the white boy who interfered with BLM’s destruction.



Or like Chauvin for that matter, and he had no intention of killing anybody.  I've seen police officers use that technique on the show COPS many times.  In this case the media buried that story as fast as it came out.  It has nothing to do with discrimination either.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2022)

monkrules said:


> Lisa, you and Ray deserve medals. For your logic, patience, and endurance.
> 
> I've long had im2, essien(sp), and vine on ignore. Their non-stop whining and excuse-making, make me want to puke.
> 
> ...



Thank you very much for the compliment.  

I only use the ignore list when people get too repetitive or insulting.  I like to have nice adult conversations.  The reason I come to this service is to discuss issues with people of opposite views, but usually political views more than race.  The only reason I'm in this group is because (as they always do) the mods moved the topic to a different forum.  

I do agree with you on these posts that go on forever or those broken up in a dozen pieces.  When it takes people ten paragraphs to write something I could write in two and still get every point across, I kind of lose my patience and skip over the thing.  

It's always been my opinion that the reason blacks and whites don't get along is because we are so opposite and different in every possible way.  That's why I think it's important to discuss those differences.  It doesn't mean the other side has to agree with them, but perhaps somewhere down the road when the situation presents itself, people might think of what is discussed here.   

I don't buy into this "I'm fine, it's others I worry about" stance.  If you're doing fine, why can't others like you do fine as well?  It's kind of like all the leftists claiming how successful or wealthy they are, and then preach how our representatives should raise taxes higher on them.  It simply defies logic, especially when the governments have no problem with you giving them as much money as you want.  

If I were black and did well for myself, then my opinion would be I did it, why can't you?  Instead they make excuses for them, and it makes me highly suspicious that they are not doing that well at all.  They are not speaking on behalf of anybody else, they are speaking on behalf of themselves.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 28, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I said what is was in my OP: it’s the same regardless of race.
> 
> 1) Having babies as an unwed teen
> 2) Dropping at of school


In 2017, Demos published a study titled, _“The Asset Value of Whiteness: Understanding the Racial Wealth Gap.” _On page 10 this statement is written: _*"The median white single parent has 2.2 times more wealth than the median black two-parent household and 1.9 times more wealth than the median Latino two-parent household."*_


----------



## IM2 (Apr 28, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Thank you very much for the compliment.
> 
> I only use the ignore list when people get too repetitive or insulting.  I like to have nice adult conversations.  The reason I come to this service is to discuss issues with people of opposite views, but usually political views more than race.  The only reason I'm in this group is because (as they always do) the mods moved the topic to a different forum.
> 
> ...


Facts are not excuses. But I realize you and monk are uneducated.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 28, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Or like Chauvin for that matter, and he had no intention of killing anybody.  I've seen police officers use that technique on the show COPS many times.  In this case the media buried that story as fast as it came out.  It has nothing to do with discrimination either.


If he had no intention of killing, he would have taken his knee off a handcuffed mans neck.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Facts are not excuses. But I realize you and monk are uneducated.



You never present any facts.  What you present are results without pointing to what facts caused those results.  At that point you make insinuations or conspiracy theories.  

We present facts, but you don't like facts so live in your own bubble instead of looking at anything outside the paradigm you created for your comfort zone.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 28, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You never present any facts.  What you present are results without pointing to what facts caused those results.  At that point you make insinuations or conspiracy theories.
> 
> We present facts, but you don't like facts so live in your own bubble instead of looking at anything outside the paradigm you created for your comfort zone.


That's a lie. Everything you said in the second sentence is what you do. You have no facts to present me. I'm black, I speak as an expert on what impacts blacks. Tha'ts because it has impacted me, blacks I know and considering the fact that I have met blacks from all over America, the islands, Europe, Africa, and South America and hear what they have said, you have no other position here but to listen.

Conspiracy theories my ass. I've posted information with links. I know what I say is correct. What you and other racists believe simply is not so. It's not debatable. I'm black, your white and racist. The root cause of the problems blacks face is white racism. I say that because I've faced it. You are white racism, people like you are the root cause of our problem.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2022)

IM2 said:


> That's a lie. Everything you said in the second sentence is what you do. You have no facts to present me. I'm black, I speak as an expert on what impacts blacks. Tha'ts because it has impacted me, blacks I know and considering the fact that I have met blacks from all over America, the islands, Europe, Africa, and South America and hear what they have said, you have no other position here but to listen.
> 
> Conspiracy theories my ass. I've posted information with links. I know what I say is correct. What you and other racists believe simply is not so. It's not debatable. I'm black, your white and racist. The root cause of the problems blacks face is white racism. I say that because I've faced it. You are white racism, people like you are the root cause of our problem.



And yet successful blacks feel differently.  You don't have to be black to know blacks.  You don't have to be black to understand their problems, just like you don't have to be a professional athlete to call a play bad, or a politician to be a member on USMB.  

Here is your entire argument:  

More blacks in jail than whites per capita.  Racism. 
Whites make more money than blacks.  Racism. 
Whites do better in school than blacks.  Racism. 
Blacks lower property values while whites keep them up.  Racism. 
Blacks lead in all categories of violent crime and theft.  Racism. 
Blacks get stopped for traffic violations more than whites.  Racism.  
Blacks have twice the out of wedlock birth rates than whites. Racism. 


So there you go.  All problems black boil down to one thing for you, racism.  How does anybody have an intelligent debate when that's all you have?


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 28, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Works on the assumption that other minorities will continue having a pity party like blacks are doing.
> 
> Here's the thing.  At one point, Jews, Germans, Irish, Poles, Italians, Catholics were considered undesirable minorities.  Eventually, they entered the mainstream.  I'd argue we still haven't gotten the affluence of the WASP minority. (We've only had TWO Catholic Presidents in our entire history, counting Biden).
> 
> From what I've seen, Asians do a pretty good job entering the mainstream.   Hispanics struggle, but you get a certain number of generations down the road, and they mainstream as well, intermarry with whites and no one thinks twice about it.


Again, for the 51st time, NONE OF THOSE PEOPLE are "people of African descent" AKA "black people", you know the designated whipping boys of the white supremacists who founded the country.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 28, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> It’s been explained a zillion times, but your deluded thinking won’t allow you to process It:
> 
> The original text said nothing about blacks, specifically. But the libs aren’t adhering to that. That’s the problem! The liberal educators have applied bias to it, though, and have been favoring blacks, specifically.
> 
> ...


It doesn't matter how many times you SAY it, REPEAT it, whatever, it still doesn't change the fact that the very thing that you all have been claiming is not true.

If a bunch of white people misinterpreted the statute to mean something other than what it says, that does not change the intent or the content of the original executive order.

You have consistently wrongly predicted things about me just like you're doing now.  Give it a break and admit you were mistaken, there is no shame in being wrong and admitting it.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 28, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> It doesn't matter how many times you SAY it, REPEAT it, whatever, it still doesn't change the fact that the very thing that you all have been claiming is not true.
> 
> If a bunch of white people misinterpreted the statute to mean something other than what it says, that does not change the intent or the content of the original executive order.
> 
> You have consistently wrongly predicted things about me just like you're doing now.  Give it a break and admit you were mistaken, there is no shame in being wrong and admitting it.



Well what is AA without quotas?  This is especially true in government. 

_Council voted to allow the city to set mandatory goals that go into effect Jan. 1 requiring those with primary city contracts of $50,000 or more to ward certain percentages of their subcontracts to firms owned by white female and black-owned businesses. Those percentages, which can be updated and changed later, are:_


_17 percent to black-owned companies for construction work_
_10 percent to white women-owned companies for construction work_
_14 percent to black-owned companies for professional services_
_16 percent to white women-owned companies for professional services_



			https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/09/30/city-sets-mandatory-goals-for-hiring-minority-and.html
		



_"We don't have that many minority companies with the capacity to do the bigger projects," said City Councilwoman Paula Johnson Branch. "That's because over the years minorities were not sought after to work on the bigger contracts, so they weren't able to grow. They remained stagnant."

Baltimore officials are taking a two-pronged approach to changing that. One initiative is aimed at increasing the size of performance bonds for which small businesses can qualify. A second is a push for minority companies to create joint ventures that would provide them with more capital and bigger work forces._









						City to assist minority-run businesses
					






					www.baltimoresun.com
				





_Wilmington At-Large City Councilwoman Rysheema Dixon said she is looking to level the playing field when it comes to businesses the city hires for contracts.

"We want to see an increase in the amount of diversity among businesses that are getting city contracts. We want to be able to showcase that that disparity is no longer there."

City Council approved a $250,000 study to be conducted by Miller³, a national consulting firm, that plans to address and quantify the types of businesses receiving the city's business. _









						City Councilwoman hopes disparity study leads to increased women-and-minority hiring in Wilmington
					

Wilmington At-Large City Councilwoman Rysheema Dixon said she is looking to level the playing field when it comes to businesses the city hires for contracts.




					www.wdel.com
				




There are countless stories like this because they are happening all across the country, especially in cities with liberal governments.  It's not quality of work they seek, best prices, companies of capable size to handle the job.  It's all about race, a criteria that even Joe Biden used to nominate the latest Supreme Court judge as flawed as she was.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 28, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I use my platform to educate others how to get out of poverty, using my own parents as examples: From cold-water tenements to a house in the suburbs in 10 years:
> 
> 1. Stay in school and get vocational or career training
> 2. No babies before marriage and able to financially provide for them
> ...


Except you don't have a platform here Lisa to "those people" whom you claim to be so concerned about, because if you did, you'd have heard from them by now.

There will always be a percentage of people who live in poverty but your false concern doesn't fool anybody, you simply for some reason, need someone you can condemn and berate who you and society in general consider below you, in social-economic status, in order to feel better about yourself.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 28, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I’m singling out poor blacks because poor whites aren’t blaming RACISM for their situation


LOL, what kind of sense would that make?  For members of the race who instituted white supremacy as the law of the land to blame their own racism for their inability to get out of poverty?

You're not fooling anyone Lisa, none of you are.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Trust me, I studied the case carefully.  Martin was a punk.  He was living with his father and his girlfriend because his mother couldn't take him any longer after his second suspension from school.
> 
> Zimmerman ran after Martin for about 15 seconds where Martin easily outran Zimmerman.  Zimmerman stayed on the phone with police dispatch for another minute.  When he hung up the phone, Martin was hiding and waiting for the opportunity to attack him.  He didn't bother to try to leave the complex, he didn't even try to walk home, he didn't even try to call police himself, he hid behind the Bushes in the dark.
> 
> You don't have any license.  If you did you'd know what the laws are.  I do have a license, and in our 10 hour class they focused mostly on those laws.  The written test had to be passed by 100%.  To say the laws don't allow what Zimmerman did clearly exposes you never had a license to carry a gun; either that or your state failed in their curriculum.


Why would you just say something like "you don't have any license" when you don't know if I do or don't?  
How stupid and desperate are you that would cause you to say something so idiotic simply because you can't imagine that I ALSO having something coveted that you were able to obtain?

How bout we make a wager?  If you're so sure that I don't have a license, let alone a Florida concealed carry permit then bet me.  I'll leave this board and never come back with apologies to every single one of you racists before my departure.

What are you willing to bet?

And Zimmerman's still a punk, all day all night.  He tried to sue Martin's parents because he had to face trial for killing their son, nothing but a POS.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 29, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Why would you just say something like "you don't have any license" when you don't know if I do or don't?
> How stupid and desperate are you that would cause you to say something so idiotic simply because you can't imagine that I ALSO having something coveted that you were able to obtain?



It's easy when you say something like this: 



NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> I have the same damn license that he has and it does not allow any of the things that you all claim it does.



Even if you were sleeping during most of the class, you'd still know that yes, having that license does allow those things.  That license says you have the right to use deadly force if you believe that you (or others) are in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death which apparently Zimmerman was in.  Two black eyes, an injured back, a broken nose and this hoodlum not stopping gives you every reason to believe this guy caused serious bodily injury and if not stopped, could have easily led to your death.  If you can't use deadly force in that situation, then WTF could you use it? 

And even if you were sleeping in class, you'd still have to pass a written test stating you know of these laws.  That's how I know you never had a firearms license in your life.  Those laws are rudimentary in the CCW firearms course.  It's the very least you should know because if you didn't know these things, you would have never been able to obtain a license.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You never present any facts.  What you present are results without pointing to what facts caused those results.  At that point you make insinuations or conspiracy theories.
> 
> We present facts, but you don't like facts so live in your own bubble instead of looking at anything outside the paradigm you created for your comfort zone.


Here's some facts for you and the rest of the racists.  Compton is where I grew up.  Note the differences between how we viewed our neighbors (and were viewed) and how you all view your black neighbors and black people in general.  Note also how none of the racists mentioned below considered themselves racist either, just like many of you, though they fought tooth and nail to keep black people out of their neighborhoods:
Before the 1950s, the Whiteness of Compton was Defended Vehemently ​When Ellis Cooke moved to Compton _*in 1962, it was a time when whites and blacks peacefully coexisted*_. That, however, was a very unique sandwiched-in period for the city. *Before the courts struck down racially restrictive covenants--deeds that prohibited blacks and other races from living on a property--in 1948, Compton was white. Really white*.

*"It's difficult to overstate how white Compton was in the early 50s and late 40s--*_*exclusively white with an extraordinary web of racially restrictive covenants with a very aggressive policing strategy about keeping black people out,*_" explained historian Josh Sides, the director of the Center for Southern California Studies at CSU Northridge. _*"There was no more effective tool in 20th America than the racially restrictive covenant in terms of keeping neighborhoods white*_, and Compton was not unique in its application of covenants. _*There were very few neighborhoods in Los Angeles or Southern California generally in which there was not a restrictive web of covenants established*_. So in that regard, Compton is unexceptional, _*but the virulence and the violence in which the Comptonites protected the whiteness of their neighborhood was much more acute than you would have found in the city of Los Angeles for example*_."

Compton as the Bellwether for Urban America
Richland Farms: An Introduction

_Covenants across the country began in the late 1910s and early 1920s in response to the increasing black population in American cities, namely Northern and Western ones that saw the rise during World War I during the so-called great migration from the South_*. In Los Angeles, however, the move of African Americans was slow until World War II. *_*Still, that slow growth in the 1920s was enough for white homeowners to become concerned about declining property values because of the black influx*_.

"There's a curious thing about this and that is this: _*whites believe then, and I think now, that the arrival of black people in their neighborhood will lower property values," said Sides. "And the really troubling reality is, that that is true*_. _*The arrival of black people does usually lower property values, but not, of course, because of any material difference, but simply because real estate is all about perception*_. In fact, if you looked at the FHA--Federal Housing Administration--studies during World War II, *they actually found that blacks defaulted at a lower rate on their mortgage than whites did. But it doesn't really matter.*"

Sides continued: "[The FHA] even had an anecdotal study in L.A. that was kind of colorful that talked about the extent to which blacks planted more flowers and maintained their gardens in better condition than whites did, but, of course, real estate is never really about true value, it's about perceptual value. *And in this case, the perception that blacks would lower value meant that in reality, the values did decline*. And *so white paranoia about that decline, even when whites did not think of themselves as racists. In fact, in L.A., they really distanced themselves from that sort of malicious Southern racism, but, of course, whether they were racists or not was sort of immaterial because they entered into an agreement that kept blacks out of their neighborhoods, and they defended those agreements very vehemently.*"

More About Redlining and Restrictive Covenants
_The Legacy of Racially Restrictive Covenants_​*When the legality of racially restrictive covenants was destroyed, white developers with the primary goal of turning a profit looked to creating affordable housing for aspiring middle-class African Americans who wanted to move to Compton*. _*And in 1952 with a series of new developments, the demographics change almost overnight. "There's a moment in time, which as a historian to me I find so interesting because it was really kind of a window of opportunity, where blacks and whites coexisted quite peacefully in Compton" from the early 1950s to the Watts riots of 1965, said Sides.*_

During that time, the landscape, physically speaking, was also considerably different. "We had a lot of open space to do horseback riding at that time," Cooke said, reminiscing about his five-hour morning rides. He even knew people who could ride to Pasadena and back.

_The Departures Richland Farms series is broken down into two parts as interactive murals: The Past and The Present. The above information is based on The Past's fourth mural hotspot, where two additional video interviews with Cooke and another resident, Marie Hollis, can be found. Additionally, a photo slide show, " From the South to Compton," can be viewed there._

Read More


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It's easy when you say something like this:
> 
> Even if you were sleeping during most of the class, you'd still know that yes, having that license does allow those things.  That license says you have the right to use deadly force if you believe that you (or others) are in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death which apparently Zimmerman was in.  Two black eyes, an injured back, a broken nose and this hoodlum not stopping gives you every reason to believe this guy caused serious bodily injury and if not stopped, could have easily led to your death.  If you can't use deadly force in that situation, then WTF could you use it?
> 
> And even if you were sleeping in class, you'd still have to pass a written test stating you know of these laws.  That's how I know you never had a firearms license in your life.  Those laws are rudimentary in the CCW firearms course.  It's the very least you should know because if you didn't know these things, you would have never been able to obtain a license.


So you're not willing to bet anything huh, figures you'd punk out just like your heroes, who wouldn't have had to shoot their way out of a situation had they not inserted themselves into it.

I no longer a copy of the webpage on this computer but I'd say about 10 years ago the state of Florida actually had a statement on it's website where you apply for concealed carry that stated (paraphrased) "A permit to carry a concealed weapon does not grant permission to use your weapon".  It then went on to advise anyone applying for or with a permit to familiarize themselves with the Florida statues governing *lawful self-defense* and other applicable statutes (such as prohibited places for example).

You have no idea how very amusing it is to observe your white male mansplaining especially when you are so very wrong about practically every salient point.  And don't go attributing all of the bad habits and ignorance of your particular demographic to me.  Even if I had slept through the course although I'm not sure how I would have gotten through the shooting portion had I not been awake, I would still be able to easily tell that YOU are the one who doesn't know what they're talking about.

I'm not going to argue with you about the case because it's water under the bridge but I will tell you exactly what you said that gives you away.

A concealed carry permit has NOTHING to do with the circumstances under which you can LAWFULLY *use *your firearm,  for self-defense,  The aforementioned Florida website even mentioned that a concealed carry permit does not grant police powers,  it only grants permission from the government for you to carry it on your person.  That's it.

So since you don't make to make a wager I guess you're conceding the fact that you are full of it and just talking out of your rear?


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 29, 2022)

More about the city of Compton:


> Compton, California (1867- )​Posted on August 20, 2017by  contributed by: Ayala Feder-Haugabook​
> 
> 
> Ariel view of Compton, ca. 1935​Public domain image
> ​Compton is a city in Southern _California_, located in south Los Angeles County. Compton was settled in 1867 by thirty pioneer families led by Griffith Dickenson Compton, after whom the city was named. The first black families came to the city just before World War II. *Throughout the twentieth century, Compton was a middle-class suburb with relatively inexpensive housing.*​​_*Prior to World War II, Compton was 95 percent white. The city adopted racially restrictive covenants in 1921 to bar African Americans and other people of color from the municipality. Civic leaders, real-estate agents, and law-enforcement agencies perpetuated this racial exclusion with their own practices*_.​​Compton’s demographics began to change during the late 1940s and early 1950s._* Many African Americans in south central Los Angeles were now prosperous enough to move to Compton*_. _They took advantage of the U.S. Supreme Court’s ban on restrictive covenants in 1948 and began to purchase houses in Compton_. *Some of the first black families entering Compton neighborhoods were met with violence, vandalism, and terror*.​​By the mid-1950s, *white flight—the process of white families rapidly leaving a neighborhood due to changing racial demographics—was spreading in Compton. Real-estate brokers accelerated this process by scaring white families with threats of low property values due to the new racially integrated neighborhoods*. The black population in Compton rose from 5 percent in 1940 to 40 percent in 1960. The Watts Riots of 1965 accelerated black flight from Los Angeles and in turn increased white flight from Compton._* By 1970, Compton had become 65 percent African American.*_​​In the early 1960s, while whites still controlled politics and law enforcement, blacks began to make political progress. In 1969, Douglas Dollarhide was elected the first black mayor of Compton. By the 1980s, Compton’s “ghetto” image had emerged as unemployment among black men rose to 10 percent, almost twice the national average for all unemployment.​​(continued here Compton, California (1867- ) •​


----------



## monkrules (Apr 29, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I said what is was in my OP: it’s the same regardless of race.
> 
> 1) Having babies as an unwed teen
> 2) Dropping at of school


They're actually giving that stupid post "high fives." You're wasting time trying to reason with them. They're determined to remain thick as rocks. I'm beginning to believe it's their natural state.




Zincwarrior said:


> What's the reason for poverty in whites?



The answer is in the very first paragraph of her opening post.

Amazing. I hope you're just being a wiseguy. But I think not. Sadly, your question was probably meant as a serious one. 😒


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 29, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Cops don't handle white people with an iron fist based on preconceived notions of them being drug crazed, naturally stronger thugs with a tendency towards criminality and violence.
> 
> What I can say is, if a black cop did shoot an unarmed white person (without valid justification), it would definitely make the news; if only to use the one incident as a way of discrediting the thousand white cop/dead black man cases we've heard about over the years.



Except we've already given you two cases - Justine Damond and Jeremy Mardis, innocent white people shot by black cops, who got NOWHERE near the coverage of McDonald, Floyd, or Wright.  Mardis' case was so obscure I had to google it.  




Paul Essien said:


> Whatever they may have done in their lives had no bearing on their encounters at the given moment with the officers.
> 
> All that matters is what they are doing at that moment, and whether it endangered the lives of the officer or another person — something that should be evaluated by independent fact-finders, not D.A.s who work hand-in-glove with police every day.
> 
> If their actions did endanger the officer’s life or that of another person, then you would'nt need to look into old arrests and troubles.



Okay. 

McDonald had a knife and was running down a busy street. 
Floyd was operating a vehicle stoned out of his mind on PCP
Wright was attempting to flee in his vehicle 

The police had every right to restrain them or attempt to place them under arrest because the WERE breaking the law.  My issue was that excessive force was used. 



Paul Essien said:


> *The search for the perfect victim is as impossible. *
> 
> It is impossible because few who get to adulthood make it there without having done something about which they'd prefer others not know.
> 
> But unless some one has a relatively spotless record, they should'nt expect safety or even the luxury of another breath ?



Hey, funny thing.  I'm going to hit the Big Six-O next week.  
In sixty-years, I've never been arrested. 
Never had an encounter with the police more serious than a moving violation
Served my country for 11 years in the US Army. 
Worked my way through college
Own my own home, have been gainfully employed since I was 16 in some capacity or another. 

Now, if you want to tell me, that, yeah, I've had a good life because of white privilege, absolutely, I have.  




Paul Essien said:


> Is that how low the bar is for white people ?
> 
> You're not supposed to shoot unarmed blk ppl who pose no threat to you16 times. I'm not gonna give credit to a person for doing something they're not supposed to do.
> 
> You still try to justify Macdonald's death with the usual white character assainations and then you ask for gratitude ?



Facts are character assassination?  He was on drugs.  He did have a history of mental illness. on the night of the shooting, he was breaking into trucks and brandishing a knife. 

Trying to take him into custody was perfectly justified.  Shooting him 16 times was not.  If Van Dyke only shot him once, he probably wouldn't have had an issue. 

I'll go one further, and maybe this is part of the problem.  The top brass reviewed the infamous tape, including deputy chief Eddie Johnson, and ruled it justified.  Johnson became the Police Superintendent after Rahm decided to throw McCarthy under the bus. Did I mention that Johnson is black? 

The city tried to make it go away by paying McDonald's family 5 Million dollars, which they happily took and signed an NDA. (It only became public after the coroners' office disputed the official police version and the press demanded the tape under the FOI act.) 

There were no real "Good guys" in this scenario. Not Van Dyke, not McDonald. Not McDonald's family, looking to cash in, not Rahm Emmanual, or the CPD, or Cook County State's Attorney Anita Alvarez, who got voted out of office and replaced by Kim Foxx.  Heck, even Obama didn't make a big deal about this case (Unlike Mike Brown or Trayvon Martin) because he didn't want to jam up his buddy Rahm.  





Paul Essien said:


> is there a handgun that can fire 16 rounds w/o reloading. I’ll have to ask gun owning friends.



Yes, that's standard issue for Chicago PD.  A Smith and Wesson 9 MM. Maybe you need to learn the facts of a case before you express an opinion.  



Paul Essien said:


> Sure you'll beef with each other but when it comes to mistreating blk ppl ? You'll drop your swords and be on the same page.



Well, I'd like to think it depends on what the evidence is.  I suspect that if you ever found yourself in court, your attitude would go a long way in convicting you as your advocate rolls his eyes.  



Paul Essien said:


> So you're gonna wimp out ?
> 
> There was a white guy called Joshua Solomon who in 1999 changed himself from black to white.
> He felt that many black people used racism as an an excuse. He was like you and a lot of ppl on USMB. He was one of those _"racism explainers"._
> ...



Wasn't that the plot for Soul Man? 








Paul Essien said:


> You don't get gratitude for trying to justify why a 10 year black kid deserved to die



Well, that's a good thing, because I didn't do that.  If you are talking about Tamir Rice, he was 12, and brandishing a realistic looking model gun in a public place.  He was 5'8" and weighed 185 lbs. 



Paul Essien said:


> You'd get gratitude if you could show me receipts of the work you have done to assist in the black liberation struggle that works within your *OWN* white community where the main decisions are made that negatively affects black people.
> 
> The decisions that bring about the bias, the discrimination that affects blacks; all those decision are not made in the ghettoes of black America. They are made in the burbs because it is the people who look like you who makes those decisions
> 
> You'd get gratitude if you were prepared to show humility and be ready to get the brunt of the criticism. You may have to listen to the angry black voices and be prepared to be criticized and rejected and not trusted.



Yeah, funny thing.  No, not really.  When I was a sergeant in the Army, I helped develop and promote black soldiers in my unit.  When I've been a supervisor, I've helped along black people on my team.  Even kept one from getting fired by my Jewish boss.   In my current business, (I write resumes), I've helped hundreds of people of color find better jobs or get their careers on the right track.  



Paul Essien said:


> Instesd you spend all your time disagreeing with me and @IM2 on everything and you wonder we think your full of shit



I have a little more respect for IM2, because he's somewhat rational.  You are a guy who seems to enjoy nursing his grudges.  Frankly, you sound just as angry as Ray and Lisa, just from the other side.


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland
*Why would it matter what race I was? I am white.*

And that shapes how you think.

Ray From Cleveland
*but don't use my race as a crutch like the rest of you do here.*

That's because white people are not crutches. You live in a system of racism - white supremacy

Ray From Cleveland
* I'm talking about law *

And who creates the law ?

Ray From Cleveland
*and you're talking about race since you have no argument of the laws even with your six page replies.*

Look at the arrogance. 

Less than 22% of the world is white.
Less than 11% of the world is white and male.
Less than 2.3% of the world is white, male and speaks English.
Yet they run the BBC, CNN, the _New York Times_, Harvard, Oxford and Cambridge, Google, Twitter, Facebook, Reddit. They write most of the Hollywood films and Wikipedia articles. They even own BET. 

English-speaking white men own and run nearly all the main bits of the Global Talking Machine. Y
You have sites like n*ggermania, chimpmania. No one is taken them down. You you can talk sh*t about black people all day. You have Nick Fuentes. You have Richard Spencer. You have Tucker Carlson. You have Ben Shapiro. You have Jared Taylor. You have Matt Heimbach.

White supremacist are allowed to run a muck on here, and now Elon Musk has took over Twitter that's gonna be like Klan rally, run a muck on facebook, run a muck on reddit, run a muck on 4chan.

You have stormfront. You have AmericanRennsance. We just finished two terms of Trump the most pro white POTUS ever. You EVEN have black ppl like Cndace Owens and Larry Elder speaking like a white supremacist

White people also have the world's strongest publishing industry statistically supporting them more than any other group where you can read books like the Bell Curve which tries to prove how stupid black people are.

The white supremacist male male opinion is rammed down everyone's throats 24-7

And you still complain ?

That my and other blk ppl posts are such an affront to certain you speaks VOLUMES about the privilege you posses, where even a single small instance of contrary opinions are a threat to u. And causes you to erupt like a hilarious volcano (lol)


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> If I were black and did well for myself, then my opinion would be I did it, why can't you? Instead they make excuses for them, and it makes me highly suspicious that they are not doing that well at all. They are not speaking on behalf of anybody else, they are speaking on behalf of themselves.



Yeah, Ray, but you've had all the advantages of being white, and you still ended up living in a slum and collecting welfare.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> That's likely because blacks mostly kill blacks and whites mostly kill whites.
> 
> Let's look at the largest domestic terror attack of last year. A black guy and renown racist BLM supporter drove to an all white area where a parade was being held. He used his car to hit over 50 white people, killing 6 of them including an 8 year old white child. It disappeared from the news in less than a week. Unless you really look around, nobody even knows what happened to this terrorist.
> 
> Do you think he will be charged with a hate crime? *Do you think he will even face the death penalty?* It will be such a buried story we will probably never know. Now can you put your hand on the Holy Bible and swear to me that if this was a white attacker that went to an all black area to kill as many blacks as possible, it would be ignored like this story is?



Actually, as been explained to you numerous times, Wisconsin doesn't have a death penalty. 

So we can say with a certain level of certainty that he won't face the death penalty. 

Most criminal stories disappear after a week. 

As far as them not treating him seriously...









						The suspect in the Waukesha parade tragedy faces more than 70 new charges
					

Prosecutors in Wisconsin brought the charges against Darrell Brooks, who is accused of killing six people and injuring dozens more when he allegedly drove his car into a Christmas parade in November.




					www.npr.org
				




Prosecutors have filed 71 new charges in their case against the suspect in last November's Waukesha, Wisconsin parade tragedy that left six people dead and dozens more injured.

Darrell Brooks was previously charged with six counts of first-degree intentional homicide related to the victims killed in the crash. Now, he is facing a total of 77 charges, according to online court records reviewed by NPR.

The new charges, filed on Wednesday, i_*nclude 61 counts of first degree recklessly endangering safety with a dangerous weapon, six counts of committing a hit and run causing a death, two felony charges of bail jumping and two counts of domestic abuse*_.

Sounds to me like they are throwing the book at him.



Lisa558 said:


> I guarantee you they won’t be televising the trial, like they did with Kyle Rittenhouse - to make an example of the white boy who interfered with BLM’s destruction.



Actually, all cases in Wisconsin are televised.   Will the national networks carry it like they did Shooty McFlopsweat?  Probably not.  Mostly because he won't get thousand of people contributing millions to his defense fund to put on a real show, but also because the legal issue will probably be whether or not his actions meet the legal definition of insanity. 

He was mentally ill, but the legal standard is could he tell the difference between right and wrong.  On the assumption he can afford expert witnesses, it's probably not going to be that interesting to hear a discussion about schizophrenia or paranoia. 

But check it out, the ADL is pointing out how Neo-Nazis are exploiting this case.  Good company you are finding yourself in these days, Lisa. 









						Waukesha: Tragedy Exploited by White Supremacists | ADL
					

The mission of ADL is to stop the defamation of the Jewish people and to secure justice and fair treatment to all.




					www.adl.org


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 29, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> *McDonald had a knife and was running down a busy street.*
> *Floyd was operating a vehicle stoned out of his mind on PCP*
> *Wright was attempting to flee in his vehicle*
> 
> ...



I rarely stick up for Ray, but why not address his point.  

Just because Van Dyke, Chauvin, and Potter were bad guys did not make McDonald, Floyd and Wright "Good guys".   I can have a little sympathy for McDonald because there was mental illness in play,  Floyd was endangering everyone on that street, and he had a long criminal record.   Wright was attempting to flee because he had jumped bail on other criminal charges he was facing. 

Now, there are "perfect" victims.  Jean Botham was sitting in his apartment minding his own business.   Sandra Bland was arrested for "contempt of cop" and killed herself because she wasn't carefully watched.  Breonna Taylor was in her home, because the police had the wrong address.  Anjanette Young was forced to stand naked in her own home handcuffed because the CPD had the wrong address. 

Ironically, the one officer who acted decently in the Young case, Ella French, was praised for doing the right thing and insisting they get the woman some clothes, but was later killed in August by a suspect. COPA, on the other hand recommended a 3 day suspension for her, and didn't release their findings until AFTER she had been slain. .


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 29, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> LOL, what kind of sense would that make?  For members of the race who instituted white supremacy as the law of the land to blame their own racism for their inability to get out of poverty?
> 
> You're not fooling anyone Lisa, none of you are.


Why is the nasty, angry black woman who refuses to acknowledge that poor blacks are so for the same reasons as poor whites (irresponsible behavior and stupid choices) still addressing me?

I told her that I am not going to condescend to someone who calls me evil simply for pointing out the obvious truth instead of blaming everything on racism.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 29, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Ray From Cleveland
> *McDonald had a knife and was running down a busy street.*
> *Floyd was operating a vehicle stoned out of his mind on PCP*
> *Wright was attempting to flee in his vehicle*
> ...



The debating style on USMB is to use actual quotes; actually it's a USMB violation if you make up quotes people never said in a discussion. 

I don't come here for victory or defeat, only to present my points of view.  I do so supporting my points with reliable studies, links, and even evidence.  

I heed the words of the late Rush Limbaugh  _"Folks, you can never tell anybody they are wrong.  They have to decide that for themselves.  All you can do is give them the necessary tools so they can come to that conclusion on their own."_


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 29, 2022)

monkrules said:


> They're actually giving that stupid post "high fives." You're wasting time trying to reason with them. They're determined to remain thick as rocks. I'm beginning to believe it's their natural state.


All they’re doing is revealing how determined they are to keep poor blacks poor. All they have to do is not have a baby in high school and complete one’s education, and they’re not poor. Every single poor person alive I’ve come across - I volunteer teach financial literacy - has the same thing in common: they each had at least one baby as a teen, unmarried. THAT is what causes poverty.




monkrules said:


> The answer is in the very first paragraph of her opening post.
> 
> Amazing. I hope you're just being a wiseguy. But I think not. Sadly, your question was probably meant as a serious one. 😒


I think some of these leftists are either brain-dead or so mired in their own world of “whites are racist! Look at what they did in the 19th century!” that the can’t see the truth when it repeated as nauseum.

They simply refuse to admit that blacks can make bad choices and end up with a difficult life as a result. It’s always got to be an outside reason. At the same time, they gleefully show their disdain for poor whites, with their “white trash” label.


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 29, 2022)

JoeB131
*Van Dyke, Chauvin, and Potter were bad guys did not make McDonald, Floyd and Wright "Good guys". I can have a little sympathy for McDonald because there was mental illness in play, Floyd was endangering everyone on that street, and he had a long criminal record. Wright was attempting to flee because he had jumped bail on other criminal charges he was facing.*

But all you doing here is just repeating your point again. A point I have answered. Once again it comes back to the Adolf Hitler tactic. I like a debate to grow. When ppl just keep on repeating what they have already said. Now they are trolling






JoeB131
*Now, there are "perfect" victims. Jean Botham was sitting in his apartment minding his own business. Sandra Bland was arrested for "contempt of cop" and killed herself because she wasn't carefully watched. Breonna Taylor was in her home, because the police had the wrong address. Anjanette Young was forced to stand naked in her own home handcuffed because the CPD had the wrong address.*

And here another difference when Channon Christian and Newsome were murdered by black men. No black man or woman justified that. But part of white supremacist culture is always trying to justify why black people deserve to be killed and that's done by repeating the same lie over and over again .


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## Paul Essien (Apr 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland
*The debating style on USMB is to use actual quotes; actually it's a USMB violation if you make up quotes people never said in a discussion.*

I admit I quoted the wrong person. I quoted something JoeB131 wrote but quoted you by mistake. I've deleted it now. But to be honest it still applies to both of you in that both of your debating styles is not to dispute but to dismiss and then repeat what yfrou have already said. You choose which facts you wishes to believe in. It's part of how your brain works.

The both of you are locked in your own self-delusion. Debating with people like you two is like farting in a windstorm. You have your preconceived notions in place and have no intentions of listening to what anyone has to say.

Ray From Cleveland
*I don't come here for victory or defeat, only to present my points of view.*

Which is the white supremacist POV which is taken seriously and that's the issue. Guys like you are given the mic and taken seriouslty.
_"_


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## Paul Essien (Apr 29, 2022)

JoeB131
*Now, there are "perfect" victims. Jean Botham was sitting in his apartment minding his own business. Sandra Bland was arrested for "contempt of cop" and killed herself because she wasn't carefully watched. Breonna Taylor was in her home, because the police had the wrong address. Anjanette Young was forced to stand naked in her own home handcuffed because the CPD had the wrong address.*

But once again and I don't want to repeat what I have wrote you. This does not apply to white people.

The value of white life to you is unconditional. The value of black life is conditional.

And people who think like you are taken seriously. People who think like you are in the Jury, are the Juder etc

You didn't apply that same rule to the father of Jeremy Mardis whose wife was banging the black guy and who was a wife beater and the reason the two blk cops were at his home was to arrest him for that but he sped off which ended up in a shoot out which his son was shot and killed

Take Nicole Simpson in the OJ case

No one belittled the killing of Nicole Simpson by quoting white crime statistics, saying “white people kill each other all the time, what’s the big deal?”
No one deflected by talking about white parenting or violence in white films.
No one made Nicole Simpson posters for target practice.
No one pretended to be a dead Nicole Simpson for laughs.
No one questioned Nicole Simpson’s character – or her choice in clothing.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 29, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Ray From Cleveland
> *Why would it matter what race I was? I am white.*
> 
> And that shapes how you think.
> ...



I don't come here to get angry, I come here for enjoyment.  If I start getting angry over here, I'll find something better to do with my time.  You are apparently reading way too much into my words.

In any case, you are so mired in race that you ignore the politics of race altogether.  Most  of the people, programming and institutions you listed belong to leftists, lock, stock and bond.  As a pretty hard right person myself I'm against them and their practices as well.  Hard to believe that you and I could ever be on the same side, huh?  

I believe we have a US President that said the most racist things about blacks in our lifetime before taking office.  I believe the media and social media are responsible for all those riots that spread coast to coast.  It cost black businesses, closed some of them down, killed black people, put many in jail or prison, destroyed their communities, all for the sake of a dollar, and for leftist politicians to try and win the next presidential election, which they did by the way.  I believe they hurt black communities by defunding their police departments, empowering criminals, not punishing criminals we were not allowed to even be near a firearm.  

 President Trump didn't serve two terms, he served one.  Unlike Biden, you can't point to one actual racist thing the man said in his life.  Under his leadership, black unemployment hit it's lowest point since records were kept.  He signed the re-funding of historic black colleges that DumBama took away.  He instituted prison reform that gave early release to non-violent offenders many which were black.  He offered federal help to places like Chicago and Baltimore to help them bring down violence and murders they couldn't (and still can't) control. Of course they refused his offers.   His strict border policies stopped many of these illegals from taking jobs from Americans, and yes, that benefited the black communities as well since they mostly migrated to liberal cities.  

What I find disturbing about your comment is this opinion that any prominent black person that doesn't hold your views are white supremacists.  In your world, blacks are either anti-white or white supremacists?  That's pretty narrow minded, don't you think?  And after all the struggles of blacks of the past that you and others often refer to here, blacks are only allowed to have one point of view?  

supremacy​[ suh-prem-uh-see, soo-  ]

Definition of supremacy
noun
the state of being supreme. 
supreme authority or power.

So please tell me what Elder, Thomas or Owens ever said that ever hinted at white supremacy.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 29, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> So you're not willing to bet anything huh, figures you'd punk out just like your heroes, who wouldn't have had to shoot their way out of a situation had they not inserted themselves into it.
> 
> I no longer a copy of the webpage on this computer but I'd say about 10 years ago the state of Florida actually had a statement on it's website where you apply for concealed carry that stated (paraphrased) "A permit to carry a concealed weapon does not grant permission to use your weapon".  It then went on to advise anyone applying for or with a permit to familiarize themselves with the Florida statues governing *lawful self-defense* and other applicable statutes (such as prohibited places for example).
> 
> ...



How are you going to wager something you can't prove?  Nobody on the internet gives their names, dates or SS numbers to strange people on a blog.  What evidence could you present?  Hey, here is my CCW license from Florida: 



 
 

Now Mrs CCW holder, can you explain to me what good a CCW license is if you can only carry a gun and never use it?  

Oh, and for the parts you slept through in class: 



The 2021 Florida Statutes


 
 

* Title XLVI*
CRIMES* Chapter 776 *
JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE*View Entire Chapter*
776.012 Use or threatened use of force in defense of person.—

_(1) A person is justified in using or threatening to use force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. A person who uses or threatens to use force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat before using or threatening to use such force.

(2) A person *is justified *in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that *using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony.* A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be._
History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1188, ch. 97-102; s. 2, ch. 2005-27; s. 3, ch. 2014-195.





__





						Statutes & Constitution        :View Statutes      :      Online Sunshine
					





					www.leg.state.fl.us
				




As I said earlier, Florida laws reflect most other states including mine as to the legal use of deadly force.  In the Zimmerman/ Martin case, Zimmerman was well within the laws to use his firearm as you can see in this statute.


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## Lisa558 (Apr 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I don't come here to get angry, I come here for enjoyment.  If I start getting angry over here, I'll find something better to do with my time.  You are apparently reading way too much into my words.
> 
> In any case, you are so mired in race that you ignore the politics of race altogether.  Most  of the people, programming and institutions you listed belong to leftists, lock, stock and bond.  As a pretty hard right person myself I'm against them and their practices as well.  Hard to believe that you and I could ever be on the same side, huh?
> 
> ...


If I might jump into this lovely discussion, you bring up an excellent point. For the worst of the blacks on this forum [IM2, Essen, and Vine), the choice is either:

1) You blame whites and racism for any problems that exist in the  black community, and hold all blacks blameless entirely for any poor outcomes among them, or

2) You are on evil, white suoremacist.

What about neither?? I said at the outset that blacks and whites who remain stuck in poverty do so because of the same poor choices - babies as unwed teens and incomplete schooling - and that racism isn’t to blame. Yet bam! You don’t blame racism? You’re an evil racist!

Similarly, opposition to race-based affirmative action, as it is has been applied for the past 40 years to blacks, and favoring a race-blind policy is routed as being racist. You don’t want to keep giving admitting blacks over whites, even if the whites have better grades and scores? Bam! You’re a racist.

Or, final example, you object when the U.S. President brags that he I’ll excludes all whites from consideration for a prestigious, lifelong appointment, and think it should instead just go to the best qualified, regardless of race? Bam! You’re a white suoremacist.

Ironically, leftist consider the only whites not racist to be the ones who support racist policies and decisions that favor blacks.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 29, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Here's some facts for you and the rest of the racists.  Compton is where I grew up.  Note the differences between how we viewed our neighbors (and were viewed) and how you all view your black neighbors and black people in general.  Note also how none of the racists mentioned below considered themselves racist either, just like many of you, though they fought tooth and nail to keep black people out of their neighborhoods:
> Before the 1950s, the Whiteness of Compton was Defended Vehemently​When Ellis Cooke moved to Compton _*in 1962, it was a time when whites and blacks peacefully coexisted*_. That, however, was a very unique sandwiched-in period for the city. *Before the courts struck down racially restrictive covenants--deeds that prohibited blacks and other races from living on a property--in 1948, Compton was white. Really white*.
> 
> *"It's difficult to overstate how white Compton was in the early 50s and late 40s--*_*exclusively white with an extraordinary web of racially restrictive covenants with a very aggressive policing strategy about keeping black people out,*_" explained historian Josh Sides, the director of the Center for Southern California Studies at CSU Northridge. _*"There was no more effective tool in 20th America than the racially restrictive covenant in terms of keeping neighborhoods white*_, and Compton was not unique in its application of covenants. _*There were very few neighborhoods in Los Angeles or Southern California generally in which there was not a restrictive web of covenants established*_. So in that regard, Compton is unexceptional, _*but the virulence and the violence in which the Comptonites protected the whiteness of their neighborhood was much more acute than you would have found in the city of Los Angeles for example*_."
> ...



Look, you always go back to times when you weren't even on this planet yet.  Talk about today, ten years ago, twenty years ago.  I'll be the first to admit racism was strong and widespread in the past.  I was a child of the 60s.  I know what went on even back then.  But times have changed, quite a bit actually.  Talking about the past doesn't do you or anybody else any good since, well......it was the past.  

What my father or grandfather endured has nothing to do with my life in America.  My father was poor, grew up on welfare, had to leave school in 9th grade to help support his family, grew up in a tiny house with his five siblings that had no electricity or running water.  But what my father went through has no affect on how I conduct my life, what decisions I made, what my successes or failures were or are.  I didn't lead their life, I led my own.  

The reason dwelling on the past is fruitless is because you can't change the past.  Neither can I. Nobody can.  What you can change is the future.  We only have so much energy in our little bodies, and to use that energy on something you can never change is a waste of time.  We all wish we did some things differently in life.  It's quite normal for most people.  However if we use that same energy to advance ourselves instead of trying to change something we can't, we stand a chance at bettering our lifestyle.


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## Paul Essien (Apr 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland
*I don't come here to get angry, I come here for enjoyment. If I start getting angry over here, I'll find something better to do with my time. You are apparently reading way too much into my words.*

Right.

Ray From Cleveland
*In any case, you are so mired in race that you ignore the politics of race altogether. Most of the people, programming and institutions you listed belong to leftists, lock, stock and bond. As a pretty hard right person myself I'm against them and their practices as well. Hard to believe that you and I could ever be on the same side, huh?*

What's a leftist ?

Ray From Cleveland
*I believe we have a US President that said the most racist things about blacks in our lifetime before taking office*.

Right.

Ray From Cleveland
*I believe the media and social media are responsible for all those riots that spread coast to coast.*

No. It was systematic white supremacy

Ray From Cleveland
*It cost black businesses, closed some of them down, killed black people, put many in jail or prison, destroyed their communities*

And did that affect white people ?

Ray From Cleveland
*All for the sake of a dollar, and for leftist politicians to try and win the next presidential election, which they did by the way.*

What's a leftist ?

Ray From Cleveland
*I believe they hurt black communities by defunding their police departments, empowering criminals, not punishing criminals we were not allowed to even be near a firearm.*





Ray From Cleveland
*President Trump didn't serve two terms, he served one.*

True

Ray From Cleveland
*Unlike Biden, you can't point to one actual racist thing the man said in his life. Under his leadership*,

And that means what ? You have to say the N word to be a white supremacist ?

Ray From Cleveland
*Black unemployment hit it's lowest point since records were kept. He signed the re-funding of historic black colleges that DumBama took away. He instituted prison reform that gave early release to non-violent offenders many which were black. *

You are only pointing out things should have done.

Sky high black unemployment should have been tackled.
Black colleges should get funding.
Black people who are non violent offenders who are given unjust sentences should have their cases looked at
*I'm not gonna be thankful to someone for doing things they should do.*

And this one of the issues of racism - white supremacy. Black mistreatment has been so normalized. That you see normal behaviour towards black people as some privilege, as something we should be thankful for.

*Ray From Cleveland 
He offered federal help to places like Chicago and Baltimore to help them bring down violence and murders they couldn't (and still can't) control*.

Chicago is on that Hyper-gentrification and Negro Removal thing. Chicago PD corruption runs deep many of them were gang affiliated, so they allowed things to happen. Google Chicago Police Indictments especially in the early 2000s

Why do all the shootings happen on the weekends ?
Why are there several testimonies that police give guns to gang members?
Why are the murders automatically blamed on black people despite 80% going unsolved ?
Why do 80% go unsolved in a city with so much surveillance ?

They never ask how these guns are getting into Chicago in the first place. Here's a BIG part of the answer. White male Klent Kelley from Arkansas was caught trafficking military-style semi-automatic rifles and other guns in Chicago.

Chicago was the ground zero of the Trump/Sessions test run to see how American society reacts to government sponsored genocide of black people. They are being enacted by mercenaries, law enforcement operatives and supported by the 4th estate (white media) to propagandize it as black on black violence

The police are behind many of these shootings and blame it on gang violence.

As you can see in the above link chicago Police Officers were Sentenced For their involvement in criminal activities including 30 murders. This is FURTHER proof that many "gang murders" in Chicago are done by undercover cops and the white supremacists connected to them

Ray From Cleveland
*What I find disturbing about your comment is this opinion that any prominent black person that doesn't hold your views are white supremacists. In your world, blacks are either anti-white or white supremacists? That's pretty narrow minded, don't you think? And after all the struggles of blacks of the past that you and others often refer to here, blacks are only allowed to have one point of view?*

The white media loves a black person who'll put a black face on white opinion and power. That's why they give the mic to a Candace Owens and Larry Elder and all these other white supremacist ass kissers

And the thing is.

Nobody remembers them

.But the world knows who  MLK was.
Who Malcolm X was.
Who the black panthers were.
Who Rosa Parks was.
Who Nelson Mandela was.

Why ? Because they stood up and fought were not afraid to die

Nobody remembers the black people who kiss white supremacist ass and parrot their white supremacist view _"Well....erm...erm...but but blk on black crime rate and out of wedlock children in the black community"



_

Be quiet

Thomas Sowell (_another white supremacist ass kisse_r) was a black man who was a senior fellow at The Hoover Institute which is a white supremacist think tank. This guy was a piece of work. He thought that the book _"The Bell Curve" (_The white supremacist bible which is a book that basically tries to prove how stupid blk ppl are) is a good well written book.

He's made his money from hustling the white supremacists by articulating their racist views for them.

It's the oldest play in the Book of White Eddicts: use a black man to condone and excuse or cover for racist actions by white people. Because if a black man agrees, it can't possibly be racist.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 29, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> If I might jump into this lovely discussion, you bring up an excellent point. For the worst of the blacks on this forum [IM2, Essen, and Vine), the choice is either:
> 
> 1) You blame whites and racism for any problems that exist in the  black community, and hold all blacks blameless entirely for any poor outcomes among them, or
> 
> ...



I can only thank God I'm not of that mentality; to say all my problems are in the control of another person, person(s), or group of people, especially when so many like me have done much better all on their own.  What's the point of living in a free country then?  Might as well move to Cuba or North Korea where you can actually blame others for your inability to advance yourself.  

People come here from all over the world, and yes, including black countries because they had no opportunity where they were born.  Those people do have legitimate excuses.  Even if they only had a 5% chance at advancing themselves, it's worth it to them because 5% is better than  0%.  But the truth is they have a much greater chance at advancement and even becoming successful.  It's why they spend the time, money, and effort to get here legally.  

When I thank God for the things I have, the top two on my list are a good family and being born in the greatest country in the world.  If you can't avoid being a failure here, you are a total loser because there isn't a country in the world where you won't be a failure.  At that point you have to come to the conclusion it's inherent, and not bad luck, race, or poverty.


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## Paul Essien (Apr 29, 2022)

JoeB131
*Except we've already given you two cases - Justine Damond and Jeremy Mardis, innocent white people shot by black cops, who got NOWHERE near the coverage of McDonald, Floyd, or Wright. Mardis' case was so obscure I had to google it.*

The difference is this, take the Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom murders:








Lemaricus Davidson: *death by lethal injection*
Letalvis Cobbins: *life without parole*
George Thomas:* life without parole*
Vanessa Coleman: *35 years*
Eric Boyd :* 18 years*
*Robert Purvis murder:*









As you can see black killers of whites are arrested, charged, convicted and if they are in a state which allows it, have a better chance of getting the death penalty. So white people don't have to riot.  

The reason you have riots and demo's is because of the actions of the authorities in letting cop killers go free when they kill black people. Were it not for social media and some very vocal black folks you wouldn’t even know about any of the black people killed by police.

The other difference is that with the exception of a few literally insane people blacks won’t be lining up to defend a black person who killed an unamed white child and hint that the kid probably deserved it.

Whereas whites like yourself do.

JoeB131
*Hey, funny thing. I'm going to hit the Big Six-O next week.*

Ok.

JoeB131
* In sixty-years, I've never been arrested.*

That doesn't mean you have never committed a crime or done anything illegal

JoeB131
*Never had an encounter with the police more serious than a moving violation*

That doesn't mean you have never committed a crime or done anything illegal.

JoeB131
*Served my country for 11 years in the US Army.*

And what's your point ?

JoeB131
*Worked my way through college. Own my own home, have been gainfully employed since I was 16 in some capacity or another.*

And what's your pount ?

JoeB131
*Now, if you want to tell me, that, yeah, I've had a good life because of white privilege, absolutely, I have*.

And that's why you defend it so much because you couldn't have cut it without it.

JoeB131
*He did have a history of mental illness. on the night of the shooting, he was breaking into trucks and brandishing a knife.*

OK. Well let's just run with that. Since you want to believe so much I'll give it to you.

Then tell me how come they seem to know to not shoot and kill white dudes with knife, who not have a knife but stab the officer ?


How come even when whites attack police they still don't shoot ?


How come even when white people attack police and rob there car they don't shoot ?


Or why didn't the police shoot and kill this white man who actually killed an officer during a standoff while barricaded in a house.

Or why didn't the police shoot and kill this white guy who killed a Pennsylvania State Trooper and then went on the run for 48 days.

Or why didn't the police shoot and kill this white guy — an Indianapolis police officer — who shot one of his colleagues and then led other officers on a chase until he was finally captured.

Or why didn't the police shoot and kill this white guy who opened fire inside a family restaurant in Louisville.

Or why didn't the police shoot and kill this white guy who stalked Portland, Oregon police for months and was finally arrested while parked outside a precinct station with a car full of guns and ammo.

Or why didn't the police shoot and kill this white guy in Idaho who killed a cop, went on the run, and then refused to come out of his hiding spot when police first cornered him.

Or this white guy who pointed a weapon at three New Orleans officers and told them to “drop your fucking guns.”

Or this white guy who shot up a movie theatre full of people and was arrested outside without a scratch.

Or this white guy who was walking around menacingly downtown in Louisville with an 18-inch knife.

Or this white guy who literally beat the crap out of two police officers before getting away

JoeB131
*I'll go one further, and maybe this is part of the problem. The top brass reviewed the infamous tape, including deputy chief Eddie Johnson, and ruled it justified. Johnson became the Police Superintendent after Rahm decided to throw McCarthy under the bus. Did I mention that Johnson is black*?

That don't mean anything. Put a powerless token black person up front means nothing. It's the white supremacist behind who control him.


----------



## monkrules (Apr 29, 2022)

I was surprised to realize, in an eye-opening moment, that the discussions here are giving me a better understanding of my reactions to some posts. Especially, why I'm so impatient with certain kinds of posts.

My family was working class. Father was raised on a farm, spent 20 years in the military, then 30 years on his last job. He'd get up at 4 or 5am and walk to work. Got home between 6 and 8 pm. I never heard him complain.

We were expected to work, be responsible for our decisions, and NEVER to touch anything that didn't belong to us.

The worst things we could do were, 1) be a thief. 2) be a liar. 3) be lazy. And feeling sorry for yourself would bring reactions that would make you absolutely cringe.

My sister is about 20 years older than me. She began working when she was 7 years old, and finally "retired" at about 85 years of age.

Where we lived, farmers would drive through with stake bed trucks, yelling for people who wanted to work. They'd fill the trucks with people who were taken out to the farms. They would pick crops, including jalapenos, beans, tomatoes, watermelons, you name it. That's where my sister started working. Early start, late finish, low pay. NO FUCKING WHINING. I never heard her once blame others for her tough times.

She raised 4 fine kids. Bought a couple of homes. And those kids are hard workers, too.

So when I hear our well known whiners wallow in self pity about being so fucking oppressed, and blaming others for their own failures, it makes me want to explode. And, in a verbal sense, I suppose I do sort of explode.

All I have to say to lazy, whining people, is to shove their fucking self pity up their worthless, lazy, asses.

There's my little catharsis. Maybe I'll be more patient in the future.

The Hell I will. Lol...


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 29, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Here's some facts for you and the rest of the racists.  Compton is where I grew up.  Note the differences between how we viewed our neighbors (and were viewed) and how you all view your black neighbors and black people in general.  Note also how none of the racists mentioned below considered themselves racist either, just like many of you, though they fought tooth and nail to keep black people out of their neighborhoods:
> Before the 1950s, the Whiteness of Compton was Defended Vehemently​When Ellis Cooke moved to Compton _*in 1962, it was a time when whites and blacks peacefully coexisted*_. That, however, was a very unique sandwiched-in period for the city. *Before the courts struck down racially restrictive covenants--deeds that prohibited blacks and other races from living on a property--in 1948, Compton was white. Really white*.
> 
> *"It's difficult to overstate how white Compton was in the early 50s and late 40s--*_*exclusively white with an extraordinary web of racially restrictive covenants with a very aggressive policing strategy about keeping black people out,*_" explained historian Josh Sides, the director of the Center for Southern California Studies at CSU Northridge. _*"There was no more effective tool in 20th America than the racially restrictive covenant in terms of keeping neighborhoods white*_, and Compton was not unique in its application of covenants. _*There were very few neighborhoods in Los Angeles or Southern California generally in which there was not a restrictive web of covenants established*_. So in that regard, Compton is unexceptional, _*but the virulence and the violence in which the Comptonites protected the whiteness of their neighborhood was much more acute than you would have found in the city of Los Angeles for example*_."
> ...


The really funny thing about that is I grew up near MacAurther Park near Tommys.  Compton was a much nicer area than I lived in then (that was the mid-sixties and early seventies) The last time I was in Compton, about 2008 I think, it was a hell hole of run down houses and small apartment buildings with gang members standing around.  The area I grew up in is mostly Latino now with some gangs, but most people are working, the southern area near the Park is part of Koreatown and is thriving.
Those covenants were a bad thing, but they existed.  What you refuse to acknowledge is that the Irish, Italians, Eastern Europeans, Jews, Japanese, Chinese, Arabs, Greeks, Germans and many other groups were all discriminated against in the past, but are all thriving now and part of society.  They all refused to allow discrimination by intolerant people define them.


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## Paul Essien (Apr 29, 2022)

AZrailwhale 
*What you refuse to acknowledge is that the Irish, Italians, Eastern Europeans, Jews, Japanese, Chinese, Arabs, Greeks, Germans and many other groups were all discriminated against in the past, but are all thriving now and part of society. They all refused to allow discrimination by intolerant people define them*.

All the groups you mention are not not black Americans. So of course they have a system to move up the ladder.

AZrailwhale 
*The really funny thing about that is I grew up near MacAurther Park near Tommys. Compton was a much nicer area than I lived in then (that was the mid-sixties and early seventies) The last time I was in Compton, about 2008 I think, it was a hell hole of run down houses and small apartment buildings with gang members standing around. *

How do you know they are gang members ? And if it's run down then that's fault of the white supremacist.

Ghettoes were designed by white people as holding pens to contain black people.

Generations of housing discrimination created them, as did decade after decade of white riots against black people whenever we would move into white neighbourhoods.

When it comes to racism you don't need to throw a molly through a window when you can knock down the building using a bulldozer with public money. Zoning laws, redlining, predatory lending, stop-and-frisk: all are white violence, they are all white rioting.

And at the same time that black housing was being destroyed, millions of white families were getting government-guaranteed loans (_through the FHA and VA loan programs_) that were almost entirely off-limits to black people and which allowed whites to hustle it out to the suburbs where only they were allowed to go.


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## JoeB131 (Apr 29, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> The difference is this, take the Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom murders:



Wow, this was the best case you could come up with, that a couple who was kidnapped, raped and murdered, the people who did it were given harsh punishments.  

Clearly, you really don't understand the law.  These five thugs woke up that morning and planned to kidnap and kill them a couple of white people.   I doubt Van Dyke or Chauvin woke up that morning and said, "You know what, I'm going to go out and kill a black person today!"  

Reading the details of the case, how did they NOT deserve the harshest penalty the law allows. 

Robert Purvis was murdered over a car.  

Not nearly the same thing as an officer making a split second decision, and making the wrong one. 

Again- 10 million arrests every year, 99.99% of them DON'T end in a fatality.  



Paul Essien said:


> OK. Well let's just run with that. Since you want to believe so much I'll give it to you.
> 
> Then tell me how come they seem to know to not shoot and kill white dudes with knife, who not have a knife but stab the officer ?



Again - 10 million arrests... and MOST of the time, the cops don't need to shoot.  So in 2020, the police shot 457 white people and 241 black people.  

I don't think those 241 black people who were killed were the only ones brandishing weapons. 



Paul Essien said:


> That don't mean anything. Put a powerless token black person up front means nothing. It's the white supremacist behind who control him.



Or Eddie Johnson thought like a cop and put himself in that situation.  

Again, the solution the cops might come up with is taking their sweet time responding to a call like that.  Then the story becomes, "Crazed teen stabs multiple people at Burger King".  Oh, wait' that's what's happening NOW.   Crime has spiked in Chicago and NYC because cops don't want to risk prison for doing their jobs. 



Paul Essien said:


> And that's why you defend it so much because you couldn't have cut it without it.



Yeah, okay.... So what have you done with your life?  I'm pretty proud of what I've done with mine.  



Paul Essien said:


> As you can see black killers of whites are arrested, charged, convicted and if they are in a state which allows it, have a better chance of getting the death penalty. So white people don't have to riot.



Which is why I oppose capital punishment, because it is unevenly applied. Not just on the basis of race but the basis of wealth. 



Paul Essien said:


> The reason you have riots and demo's is because of the actions of the authorities in letting cop killers go free when they kill black people. Were it not for social media and some very vocal black folks you wouldn’t even know about any of the black people killed by police.



Okay, let's look at that.   as stated, 241 black people were killed by police in 2020.  So we heard about Breonna Taylor.  We heard about Geo. Floyd.  We heard about that knucklehead who grabbed a cops taser and got shot.  So maybe, if you squint really hard, you can find 10 cases of those where the cops overracted or used excessive force. 

Which implies that the other 230 probably did something where they seriously threatened the lives of officers or others.  And thousand of others who brandished weapons and were arrested peacefully. 



Paul Essien said:


> The other difference is that with the exception of a few literally insane people blacks won’t be lining up to defend a black person who killed an unamed white child and hint that the kid probably deserved it.



Except you really haven't cited a case of an unarmed black child. 
Laquan McDonald had a knife
Tamir Rice had a realistic looking gun. 

I have stated- in both of those cases, the officers used excessive force.  Both show that we need better training, better selection of officers, and better tactics.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 29, 2022)

monkrules said:


> I was surprised to realize, in an eye-opening moment, that the discussions here are giving me a better understanding of my reactions to some posts. Especially, why I'm so impatient with certain kinds of posts.
> 
> My family was working class. Father was raised on a farm, spent 20 years in the military, then 30 years on his last job. He'd get up at 4 or 5am and walk to work. Got home between 6 and 8 pm. I never heard him complain.
> 
> ...



I think you touched on something that hasn't been discussed here yet, and that is upbringing.  How you are brought up has everything to do with what kind of an adult you became.  

We moved from Cleveland to the burbs in 1967 thanks to the hard work of my father.  I was only seven years old at the time.  After my father got home beat and tired from his job, he'd head straight over to the house he was building us after work and weekends.  

He'd take us kids with him to give my mother some relief, but we didn't go there just to watch.  He gave us meaningless jobs just to help do something as little as it was, and to teach us the value of working.  After the house was built and we moved, the teaching didn't stop there.  My father once again came home from his full-time job, and went to do side work.  I was with him much of the time.  He paid me one dollar an hour to mix cement, carry bricks or blocks to the job site, keep the tools clean, and come home full of sand and cement.  The only thing I could do at night when we got home was to take a shower and go to bed.  This started at the age of 12. 

Most kids back then did anything to earn money.  The few where the parents just handed their kids money turned out to be failures; always expecting handouts for the rest of their life.  They always had an excuse why they quit their job or were fired, and they lived at home for much longer than the rest of us that learned how to use our wings as adults. 

I don't think you'd find many that were raised like you, I and Lisa that adopted a victimization stance.  The adults that were victims were raised as victims, always being felt sorry for by their families and friends when harder times for them came along.  For us, when you got bounced to the ground, you simply had to get up, dust yourself off and go to a new adventure.  
It wasn't white privilege, it was a two-parent working family privilege, and it didn't come easy either, but again, thank God I'm from such a family.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 29, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> But all you doing here is just repeating your point again. A point I have answered. Once again it comes back to the Adolf Hitler tactic. I like a debate to grow. When ppl just keep on repeating what they have already said. Now they are trolling










Paul Essien said:


> And here another difference when Channon Christian and Newsome were murdered by black men. No black man or woman justified that. But part of white supremacist culture is always trying to justify why black people deserve to be killed and that's done by repeating the same lie over and over again .



Uh, big difference between guys who carry out a vicious, pre-meditated murder-rape and a cop who in a stressful situation, made a bad judgement call. 



Paul Essien said:


> But once again and I don't want to repeat what I have wrote you. This does not apply to white people.
> 
> The value of white life to you is unconditional. The value of black life is conditional.
> 
> And people who think like you are taken seriously. People who think like you are in the Jury, are the Juder etc



Except we convict white people of heinous murders all the time...  just like we convict black people of heinous murders. 

On another thread, I was discussing the Scot Peterson case.    I didn't pay a lot of attention to it in 2003 when it happened, but wow... talk about a guy who got convicted on almost no evidence.  And he was white and relatively affluent.  





Paul Essien said:


> You didn't apply that same rule to the father of Jeremy Mardis whose wife was banging the black guy and who was a wife beater and the reason the two blk cops were at his home was to arrest him for that but he sped off which ended up in a shoot out which his son was shot and killed



Again, haven't heard anyone BUT you insinuate that there was an affair. Or that his father was a wife beater.  Or that they were called to the home.  (In fact, he had left a bar when the cops started following him.). 

Point was, they fired into a car not knowing who was in the car.  



Paul Essien said:


> Take Nicole Simpson in the OJ case
> 
> No one belittled the killing of Nicole Simpson by quoting white crime statistics, saying “white people kill each other all the time, what’s the big deal?”
> No one deflected by talking about white parenting or violence in white films.
> ...


Really?  I guess I remember that differently.  What I remembered were the Dancing Itos and the other ways that the murder of this woman was belittled and turned into a national joke.  I remember jokes comparing Nicole to a Pez Dispenser.  I remember OJ's legal team talking about her sex life, insinuating she was involved in the drug trade, etc.  

Oh, yeah, and a mostly black jury ignored a ton of evidence that OJ did it, and people celebrated. .  



Paul Essien said:


> Thomas Sowell (_another white supremacist ass kisse_r) was a black man who was a senior fellow at The Hoover Institute which is a white supremacist think tank. This guy was a piece of work. He thought that the book _"The Bell Curve" (_The white supremacist bible which is a book that basically tries to prove how stupid blk ppl are) is a good well written book.



Good point.  The Hoover institute should publish a collection of your posts... that would be FAR more effective in making black people look bad.... or maybe just you.   



Paul Essien said:


> And what's your point ?



That if you stop whining and actually try to accomplish something, you might get somewhere.


----------



## monkrules (Apr 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I think you touched on something that hasn't been discussed here yet, and that is upbringing.  How you are brought up has everything to do with what kind of an adult you became.
> 
> We moved from Cleveland to the burbs in 1967 thanks to the hard work of my father.  I was only seven years old at the time.  After my father got home beat and tired from his job, he'd head straight over to the house he was building us after work and weekends.
> 
> ...


Your story really took me back.

Sometimes my dad would have a lot of extra work to do, and he'd come home for dinner, then mom and I would go with him back to his workplace. Once or twice a week during busy times. There were small jobs mom or I could handle, and we'd work together for a few hours.

As I got more familiar with the large building, and the work, I could get quite a lot done. I was about 5 or 6 years old when I started 'helping out.'

On Friday, if I wasn't in school, mom and I would go meet my father for lunch on "payday." After lunch, dad went back to work, and mom and went downtown to make payments on bills, utilities, etc., and buy a couple of things we needed. I could also buy a couple of things with the five bucks I had earned for my "work" earlier in the week.

Funny how, when you remember one of those activities, many more memories will follow. I didn't realize it at the time but a lot of learning was taking place at the same time.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 29, 2022)

monkrules said:


> Your story really took me back.
> 
> Sometimes my dad would have a lot of extra work to do, and he'd come home for dinner, then mom and I would go with him back to his workplace. Once or twice a week during busy times. There were small jobs mom or I could handle, and we'd work together for a few hours.
> 
> ...



Exactly.  Pop is 91 now and I have cancer.  I don't know which one of us will make it to the finish line first.  But if it's my father, I will always cherish those memories of my father and I working side by side, him teaching me his trade, holding the light bar for him after nightfall (yes, he really did that) to finish up a wall or set of steps.  At the moment I thought I was only making money for my musical equipment.  I didn't realize at the time we were also making memories.  

Even today when the subject comes up, my father would ask me "Remember that one job we did on the west side........."


----------



## monkrules (Apr 29, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Exactly.  Pop is 91 now and I have cancer.  I don't know which one of us will make it to the finish line first.  But if it's my father, I will always cherish those memories of my father and I working side by side, him teaching me his trade, holding the light bar for him after nightfall (yes, he really did that) to finish up a wall or set of steps.  At the moment I thought I was only making money for my musical equipment.  I didn't realize at the time we were also making memories.
> 
> Even today when the subject comes up, my father would ask me "Remember that one job we did on the west side........."


Hey Ray, 
Where's Lisa been? She hasn't posted for a while.

She's probably taking a well deserved rest. Exhausted...after fighting a brick wall. Lol...


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 29, 2022)

monkrules said:


> Hey Ray,
> Where's Lisa been? She hasn't posted for a while.
> 
> She's probably taking a well deserved rest. Exhausted...after fighting a brick wall. Lol...



She's here but probably in a different topic.  It gets old repeating the same things over and over again to the same people and they never seem to get it or understand.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 29, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> AZrailwhale
> *What you refuse to acknowledge is that the Irish, Italians, Eastern Europeans, Jews, Japanese, Chinese, Arabs, Greeks, Germans and many other groups were all discriminated against in the past, but are all thriving now and part of society. They all refused to allow discrimination by intolerant people define them*.
> 
> All the groups you mention are not not black Americans. So of course they have a system to move up the ladder.
> ...


That's bullshit and you know it.  Groups of MEN standing around on street corners with gang colors (and yes, a White man can recognize gang colors) in the middle of the day on a week day are gang members.  Ghettos AREN'T the result of racism, all the various immigrant communities I listed lived in the ghettos at one time or another.  Everything you have are excuses.  Most Blacks are as successful as most other people today.  The failures have only themselves to blame.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 29, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Wow, this was the best case you could come up with, that a couple who was kidnapped, raped and murdered, the people who did it were given harsh punishments.
> 
> Clearly, you really don't understand the law.  These five thugs woke up that morning and planned to kidnap and kill them a couple of white people.   I doubt Van Dyke or Chauvin woke up that morning and said, "You know what, I'm going to go out and kill a black person today!"
> 
> ...


Rice deliberately painted the orange tip on the toy gun to make it look real.  Incidents like this are why toy guns are mandated to have that orange tip on the barrel.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 29, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> View attachment 638040
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A couple of Los Angeles talk show hosts, John and Ken had a lot to do with the Peterson prosecution.  They kept the pressure up on the prosecutor for months to do something about the case.  They also championed the case of a mentally ill man who was shot by the LAPD who claimed the hose nozzle he was holding was a gun.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 29, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Rice deliberately painted the orange tip on the toy gun to make it look real. Incidents like this are why toy guns are mandated to have that orange tip on the barrel.



My understanding it was a rubber tip and it had been removed before Rice got it.  Rice traded it for call phone that day. 



AZrailwhale said:


> A couple of Los Angeles talk show hosts, John and Ken had a lot to do with the Peterson prosecution. They kept the pressure up on the prosecutor for months to do something about the case.



My understanding the real culprit was Nancy Grace.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Apr 29, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> My understanding it was a rubber tip and it had been removed before Rice got it.  Rice traded it for call phone that day.
> 
> 
> 
> My understanding the real culprit was Nancy Grace.


You could be right about the gun, regardless, it looked exactly like a real gun, not a toy.  That's not on the cops who were responding to a call that someone was pointing a gun at people.  As for Peterson, based upon the evidence at trial and his actions, the cops got the right guy.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 29, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> You could be right about the gun, regardless, it looked exactly like a real gun, not a toy.  That's not on the cops who were responding to a call that someone was pointing a gun at people.  As for Peterson, based upon the evidence at trial and his actions, the cops got the right guy.



I have OCD Joe on ignore, but based on your comment I know all his lies in this case. 

It's been told to this mental midget how realistic the gun looked and the officer shot in self-defense.  He keeps using the word "toy" because he's a child himself.  So as I repeatedly did over, and over, and over again, I'm going to post the air soft gun he had in comparison to the model it was manufactured after. 





As anybody who is not a complete idiot can see, this is an exact replica of the real gun which nobody (especially in one second) could distinguish unless they held it in their hand.


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 30, 2022)

JoeB131 
*Uh, big difference between guys who carry out a vicious, pre-meditated murder-rape and a cop who in a stressful situation, made a bad judgement call.*

How do you know it was pre-mediated ? You don't your guessing. 

JoeB131 
*That if you stop whining and actually try to accomplish something, you might get somewhere.*

No whining here. Your pushing 60 and in your case age doesn't breed wisdom. I'm not young myself. I'm in my late 30's but still gotta a good few years on you. Your just angry and in the last chapter of your life and scared bcoz you can see the finishing line. 

You're better off using the time you left by healing the bad blood with your brother. I assume your mother and father have gone to the other side. So what u have left ? Kids ? Considering how much time you spend arguing with me they probably don't even speak to your ass. 

By the time I'm your age I won't be wasting my time on internet forums, angry at the world and life. I'll be chilling

JoeB131 
*Again, haven't heard anyone BUT you insinuate that there was an affair. Or that his father was a wife beater. Or that they were called to the home. (In fact, he had left a bar when the cops started following him.).Point was, they fired into a car not knowing who was in the car.*






Click on the pictures to read rest of story. He was fking her and she was druggie.

JoeB131 
*Except we convict white people of heinous murders all the time... just like we convict black people of heinous murders.*

And what has that got to do with the fact that to you, white life is unconditional, where as black life is conditional

JoeB131 
*On another thread, I was discussing the Scot Peterson case. I didn't pay a lot of attention to it in 2003 when it happened, but wow... talk about a guy who got convicted on almost no evidence. And he was white and relatively affluent.*

Scot who ? I'm more concerned about the tons of black men who have been PROVEN to have not done their crime not some white dude who you think _"probably" _didn't do it.......but probably did. A rich white dude going to Shawshank ? He *MUST* have done it


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 30, 2022)

AZrailwhale 
*That's bullshit and you know it. Groups of MEN standing around on street corners with gang colors (and yes, a White man can recognize gang colors) in the middle of the day on a week day are gang members. *

That's just "I'm white and I say so"

_"Hey there's a bunch of blks, hanging around and I think they're gang members"_





AZrailwhale
*Ghettos AREN'T the result of racism,*

Yes they are and I pretty sure you know that.

AZrailwhale
*all the various immigrant communities I listed lived in the ghettos at one time or another.*

All immigrants are allowed to prosper over blk ppl and these immigrants get right in line with dominant society and they all practice anti black racism. They're not the same as us. It's the world against against black Americans.

AZrailwhale
*Everything you have are excuses. Most Blacks are as successful as most other people today. *

There were successful black people 50, 60, 70 years ago. Muhammad Ali, Lena Horne, Nat King Cole, Joe Louis, Sidney Poiter.. What are you talking about ?


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 30, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> You could be right about the gun, regardless, it looked exactly like a real gun, not a toy. That's not on the cops who were responding to a call that someone was pointing a gun at people. As for Peterson, based upon the evidence at trial and his actions, the cops got the right guy.



No, actually, it was on the cop to NOT go in shooting until he determined what was going on.   Especially since the person who called it in thought it was a kid with a toy. 

As for Peterson...  

Based on the evidence?  What fucking evidence. 

There were no forensics.  No witnesses.  No weapon.  A timeline that was questionable, at best.   Witnesses who saw her walking her dog at the time he was supposedly driving to dispose of the body.   A completely plausible alternative explanation - that there were people robbing the house across the street the same day she disappeared.  

The evidence was - 
1) He was lying about an affair.  Most guys would under those circumstances.  The cops tried to get the girlfriend to get him to incriminate himself on tape and he didn't. 
2) The body was found where he had been fishing, but the police announced almost immediately what his alibi was, which gave the real killers ample time to dump the body there. 




Ray From Cleveland said:


> I have OCD Joe on ignore, but based on your comment I know all his lies in this case.
> 
> It's been told to this mental midget how realistic the gun looked and the officer shot in self-defense. He keeps using the word "toy" because he's a child himself. So as I repeatedly did over, and over, and over again, I'm going to post the air soft gun he had in comparison to the model it was manufactured after.



Dude, we've got the picture of crazy cop shooting the kid.  the TOY was under his coat when he was shot. Quit wanking off over the murder of this black child... it's unseemly.


----------



## Meathead (Apr 30, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> JoeB131
> *Uh, big difference between guys who carry out a vicious, pre-meditated murder-rape and a cop who in a stressful situation, made a bad judgement call.*
> 
> How do you know it was pre-mediated ? You don't your guessing.
> ...


Joey is absolutely bonkers, but at least he can write.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 30, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> How do you know it was pre-mediated ? You don't your guessing.



On person commits a crime on the spur of the moment.  Five thugs have a plan.  



Paul Essien said:


> No whining here. Your pushing 60 and in your case age doesn't breed wisdom. I'm not young myself. I'm in my late 30's but still gotta a good few years on you. Your just angry and in the last chapter of your life and scared bcoz you can see the finishing line.



Not really.  More frustrated we haven't fixed many of the problems in this country.  Part of it because of racists like Ray and Lisa, part of it because of people like you who want to excuse bad behavior.   You whine that the cops had to deal with people like Floyd and McDonald because you failed to do so yourself.  



Paul Essien said:


> You're better off using the time you left by healing the bad blood with your brother. I assume your mother and father have gone to the other side. So what u have left ? Kids ? Considering how much time you spend arguing with me they probably don't even speak to your ass.



Don't have kids.  I do have three other siblings, (one of whom passed away), and a bunch of nieces and nephews.  As far as my brother, he's always been a racist douchenoodle. (He called one of my friends the n-word because he thought it was funny once.  I had to snap him back for that.)  



Paul Essien said:


> By the time I'm your age I won't be wasting my time on internet forums, angry at the world and life. I'll be chilling



By the time you're my age, you'll still be whining about how white people did you wrong for your failures as a man. 



Paul Essien said:


> Click on the pictures to read rest of story. He was fking her and she was druggie.



Okay- I clicked on the story... um... it's the Daily Mail, which isn't exactly a credible news source.  But if you take the source at face value...  Greenhouse was a bad cop with a long history of corruption who instigated a situation where a white child was caught in a crossfire, and he was released after a year and a half in a seven year sentence.  

Van Dyke was an officer with a spotty record (both commendations and a lot of complaints) who got 7 years for shooting a black teen brandishing a knife and spent 3 years in prison.  

Both sound like cases where someone was given a lot more leeway for a crime because they were cops.  If anything, it seems like Greenhouse was a much worse actor than Van Dyke was.  



Paul Essien said:


> And what has that got to do with the fact that to you, white life is unconditional, where as black life is conditional



Since no one said that, you are attacking a straw man.  More white people are shot than black people by police. Far more black people are shot by other black people than by cops.  So congrats, you got the cops to back off and the murder rate shot through the roof.  Um... yeah.  

"Well, at least I wasn't shot by a cop... Gasp... gurgle...death rattle!" 



Paul Essien said:


> Scot who ? I'm more concerned about the tons of black men who have been PROVEN to have not done their crime not some white dude who you think _"probably" _didn't do it.......but probably did. A rich white dude going to Shawshank ? He *MUST* have done it



Actually, I don't think he did it at all.. based on the evidence. No forensics, no witnesses, no weapon, no timeline, etc.  He was purely convicted on emotion whipped up by a media circus.  (I think there was also a feeling, a mere 8 years after the Simpson Travesty, that they weren't going to let THIS one get away with it.)  A man with NO criminal record, a business owner, and could afford a good lawyer could be railroaded by the system. 

Now, just picking the first one of your whining complaints. 





__





						Kevin Strickland - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




You had a witness who picked Strickland out of a lineup.  He was an associate of the two guys who DID do it.  The two guys who did do it claimed he didn't help, but refused to identify the third accomplice.  Oh, yeah, and Strickland had a previous arrest for a shooting.  





__





						Kevin Strickland - National Registry of Exonerations
					






					www.law.umich.edu
				




The officers who interviewed Strickland at the police station would later note that he was “uncooperative and combative.” In the written report, the officers said that Strickland told them he already knew about the triple homicide. He also said that he had been with Bell and Adkins at about 5 p.m., a few hours before the murders.

According to the police report, Strickland said a friend of his called him after the shooting and said that the “girl that was shot in the leg” knew who had shot her and was going to tell the police. He declined to name this friend. The police report also said that Strickland said he received a call at around 9 a.m. on April 26 from Bell and Adkins, asking whether the police were looking for him. Strickland said he told them they were; the police were at his mother’s house.

Strickland told the police that he might have handled Bell’s shotgun a few days before the shooting and that he had given Bell some shells.

Later, Strickland told the officers he wasn’t talking any more. *“Book me or turn me loose, but if you do, next time you come after me, draw first or I’ll kill you,” he said. He denied any involvement in the shooting, but said that if he had been involved, he would have been shooting with everyone else, because “I love to shoot my gun. I’m a good shot, and I love to kill people*.”

Yeah, sounds like a model citizen.  Can't see why the police suspected this guy at all.     

I'm sure I could pick apart the other two, but frankly, I have a busy morning helping people who actually want to improve their lives.


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 30, 2022)

JoeB131
*On person commits a crime on the spur of the moment. Five thugs have a plan.*

So you can read people's minds then ?

Like all white supremacists you put forward arguments that are the opposite of social science, the scientific method begins with a hypothesis and then examines all the evidence, for and against that hypothesis, without presuming to know what the data will suggest in the end. White supremacists, begin with an unshakeable belief - black people are dangerous and out to harm whites and then find any evidence they can that fits their hypothesis.

JoeB131
*Not really. More frustrated we haven't fixed many of the problems in this country. Part of it because of racists like Ray and Lisa*

You're just like Ray From Cleveland and Lisa558 in fact your worse, at least they're kinda upfront and honest about.

Your just one of those white supreamacist I used to debate with in college, the ones that try so hard to sound and come across as intelligent but in reality they just masquerade their internal chaos into a form of rationality

You're not proud of what you are: A white racist defending the rights of the white race.

Why you try to deny it ? When at the same time you're trying to prove your racist point “_factually_”

JoeB131
*part of it because of people like you who want to excuse bad behavior. *

Says the person who excuses cops killing 10 year old blk kids.

JoeB131
*You whine that the cops had to deal with people like Floyd and McDonald because you failed to do so yourself.*

We face the most powerful miltary on the planet. The most powerful country on earth.

We are out numbered, out gunned and out financed but we get out fight white and non blk ppl till hell freezes over and then we will fight you on that fkin ice.

No race of ppl hae that kinda heart.

Our history is FULL of freedom fighters. From MLK, to Malcom x, to Black Panthers, To Mandela. No race of people on this planet has the heart and courage black people have shown. Our courage is written in history.

The reason why immigrants can come to this country is because of the fighting black Americans have fought for. That's why the arrows of racism is aimed at black people. We have no friends. That's why I hate the term "_People of Color_" Because we are the only people fighting you. Asians and Latinos are white ass lickers who have the same anti blk contempt.

JoeB131
*Don't have kids. *

So  you are gonna die on your own. At your age. You should be welcoming in your first grandson. Maybe going to daughter or sons wedding. Not arguing with some ppl on internet forums.

JoeB131
*I do have three other siblings, (one of whom passed away), and a bunch of nieces and nephews. *

Who probably don't speak to you.

JoeB131
*As far as my brother, he's always been a racist douchenoodle. (He called one of my friends the n-word because he thought it was funny once. I had to snap him back for that.)*

Is that supposed to impress me ?

JoeB131
*By the time you're my age, you'll still be whining about how white people did you wrong for your failures as a man*

There is no area of American life where white men are not entirely in charge —  executive suites, politics, professional sports, religion, the media, and the judiciary.

And yet to listen to you whiny white guys on here, you would believe that white men are inches from being lined up against the wall and shot.

And by the time I get to your age. I'll probably be going to my daughters wedding or with my grandkids. I'll have been to my son's graduation. Things that you  (_A 60 year old white man with no kids_) will never get to do (_ouch does that hurt_)

And I do very well. Black wife. Black child. Nice house. Nice car. Own my business. But I don't get fooled by that. I'm not _"I 'm doinhg very well. Why can't these others blacks do it ?"_ Because for one the white supremacists can take it all away, and two I still do with white supremacy, maybe even more than most, because when you try to build and grow, buy real estate, even cash in hand, u still deal with the white supremacists

JoeB131
*Okay- I clicked on the story... um... it's the Daily Mail, which isn't exactly a credible news source. *

Just take the L dude


----------



## Paul Essien (Apr 30, 2022)

JoeB131 
*Actually, I don't think he did it at all.. based on the evidence. No forensics, no witnesses, no weapon, no timeline, etc. He was purely convicted on emotion whipped up by a media circus*

Bothing to do witb that. Just the jury was filled with white supremacist, like you who simply stayed on code.It's a bit like if you were in court and if the black man was innocent, you'd still give him life without parole. Nothing to do with emotion. It's once again, you staying on code.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 30, 2022)

monkrules said:


> Hey Ray,
> Where's Lisa been? She hasn't posted for a while.
> 
> She's probably taking a well deserved rest. Exhausted...after fighting a brick wall. Lol...


I’m here, and have made a few posts, but I’m visiting my mom this weekend. Thanks for missing me!


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## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 30, 2022)

monkrules said:


> They're actually giving that stupid post "high fives." You're wasting time trying to reason with them. They're determined to remain thick as rocks. I'm beginning to believe it's their natural state.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well apparently most racist don't think they're racists, so I guess it's not surprising that these same people who amusingly call others "thick as rocks" aren't cognizant of the fact that it is they who actually don't have a clue while stubbornly clinging to their false perceptions of themselves as being superior to anyone.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 30, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> I have a little more respect for IM2, because he's somewhat rational. You are a guy who seems to enjoy nursing his grudges. Frankly, you sound just as angry as Ray and Lisa, just from the other side.


What I will say to you about this Joe is that Paul is the result of racism he has faced. Lisa and Ray are racists, real live white supremacists who believe blacks are less human. There is a difference. There is only so much so much of the double standards and recognition of the way the system is maintained that a person of color will tolerate. Paul has a right to be angry, so does every black person in this country. It is indeed arrogant for a group of people to have done what whites have done to us, then tell us we are wrong for being angry.   

Paul has been correct about the things he has said. We aren't talking about conspiracies. As you are not a racist, perhaps instead of trying to compare Paul to pure white racist trash, that you begin to understand how he has come to feeling that way, because in my experience as a black man, I find that brother Paul Essen has a message you guys need to hear. It's not going to be what you like to hear, but until you guys can understand that we do have the right to be angry, whites will not do everything they need to make racism in the white community irrelevant.


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## IM2 (Apr 30, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Why is the nasty, angry black woman who refuses to acknowledge that poor blacks are so for the same reasons as poor whites (irresponsible behavior and stupid choices) still addressing me?
> 
> I told her that I am not going to condescend to someone who calls me evil simply for pointing out the obvious truth instead of blaming everything on racism.


She doesn't acknowledge what is not true. You are not speaking truth.


----------



## IM2 (Apr 30, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Well apparently most racist don't think they're racists, so I guess it's not surprising that these same people who amusingly call others "thick as rocks" aren't cognizant of the fact that it is they who actually don't have a clue while stubbornly clinging to their false perceptions of themselves as being superior to anyone.


Monk is ignorant uneducated white trash. He's a loser.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Apr 30, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Well apparently most racist don't think they're racists, so I guess it's not surprising that these same people who amusingly call others "thick as rocks" aren't cognizant of the fact that it is they who actually don't have a clue while stubbornly clinging to their false perceptions of themselves as being superior to anyone.



So why don't you give us a quote by myself or others here where we claimed superiority?  Show me where Lisa, I or Monk said we are better because of our skin color.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 30, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Why is the nasty, angry black woman who refuses to acknowledge that poor blacks are so for the same reasons as poor whites (irresponsible behavior and stupid choices) still addressing me?
> 
> I told her that I am not going to condescend to someone who calls me evil simply for pointing out the obvious truth instead of blaming everything on racism.


I don't think I'm coming across as angry, amused quite often, dubious about many of the things you claim, sure, but your attempt to categorize me as an "angry black woman" is quite hilarious.  Let's ask the guys - "Hey guys, do I come across as an 'angry black woman'" LOL?  Oh, and if you're not one of my friends here, that question doesn't extend to you.  I'm not interested in hearing from the peanut gallery.

Face it Lisa, your premise is FALSE therefore no matter what you say, how many times you say it, how many times you refine the *way *you say it, it's still going to be *FALSE*.

So let's give you something better to think about, perhaps how transparent you are and how your upbringing was lacking in certain areas.  

We were taught that not only is is not nice, but that it is very ill mannered to mock or deride people who are less fortunate than ourselves.  None of us believe for a minute that you have any good intentions at heart with your constant derision of black people especially when there are _way _more white people living in poverty than us.  Why haven't you taken your soapbox over to Appalachia and lectured them on staying in school and not getting pregnant so that they can claw their way out of povert although the alleged opioid crisis there, if accurate, may just cancel out what that good advice might do.

The true give away about your actual intentions though have to do with this - what good does it do, telling people not to do something that they've already done other than to possibly make them feel bad (or worse) about their situation?  Surly you can't fault me for believing that this is what all your blathering has been about all along, denigrating people and trying to make others feel badly about their life choices while you allegedly sit on high in judgment of others.  You were never taught that being judgmental is a very unattractive trait in a woman?  Well in anyone really, but ...

In closing <  > I want you to always remember something, aside from the fact that I know what you are, and that you're not fooling anyone with how you like to crow about how your people came here after having escaped being murdered in Europe and then rose up from nothing to middle class status and above in "10 years".  Well 10 years was your last assertion, down from your previous claim of 2 generations which is approximately 50 years.  Which I know they didn't do without any money or assistance.  Anyway, that something is this - my grandfather fought to help free "you and your people".  He risked his life along with all of the rest of the Tuskegee Airmen and engaged the German Luftwaffe in direct combat to help ensure you escaped Hitler's plans for you and your family.  

The 99th Fighter Squadron was sent to North Africa in April 1943 for combat duty. They were joined by the 100th, 301st, and 302nd African-American fighter squadrons. Together these squadrons formed the 332nd fighter group. _*The transition from training to actual combat wasn't always smooth given the racial tensions of the time*_. However, the Airmen overcame the obstacles posed by segregation. Under the able command of Col. Benjamin O. Davis, Jr., the well-trained and highly motivated 332nd flew successful missions over Sicily, the Mediterranean, and North Africa.​​Bomber crews named the Tuskegee Airmen "Red-Tail Angels" after the red tail markings on their aircraft. Also known as "Black" or "Lonely Eagles," the German Luftwaffe called them "Black Bird Men." The Tuskegee Airmen flew in the Mediterranean theater of operations. _*The Airmen completed 15,000 sorties in approximately 1,500 missions, destroyed over 260 enemy aircraft, sank one enemy destroyer, and demolished numerous enemy installations. Several aviators died in combat*_. The Tuskegee Airmen were awarded numerous high honors, including Distinguished Flying Crosses, Legions of Merit, Silver Stars, Purple Hearts, the Croix de Guerre, and the Red Star of Yugoslavia.  A Distinguished Unit Citation was awarded to the 332nd Fighter Group for "outstanding performance and extraordinary heroism" in 1945.​​_*The Tuskegee Airmen of the 477th Bombardment Group never saw action in WWII. However, they staged a peaceful, non-violent protest for equal rights at Freeman Field, Indiana, in April 1945.*_​​_Their achievements proved conclusively that the Tuskegee Airmen were highly disciplined and capable fighters. They earned the respect of fellow bomber crews and of military leaders. Having fought America's enemies abroad, the Tuskegee Airmen returned to America to join the struggle to win equality at home_.
Legends of Tuskegee: The Tuskegee Airmen: Airmen in Combat​
I have always wondered why a people who have been subjected to such horrors due to "racial" discrimination and bigotry against them could then turn around and do the same to another group of people.  That takes a special kind of arrogance to believe that you are inherently better than others to that degree.


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## Lisa558 (Apr 30, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> I don't think I'm coming across as angry, amused quite often, dubious about many of the things you claim, sure, but your attempt to categorize me as an "angry black woman" is quite hilarious.  Let's ask the guys - "Hey guys, do I come across as an 'angry black woman'" LOL?  Oh, and if you're not one of my friends here, that question doesn't extend to you.  I'm not interested in hearing from the peanut gallery.
> 
> Face it Lisa, your premise is FALSE therefore no matter what you say, how many times you say it, how many times you refine the *way *you say it, it's still going to be *FALSE*.
> 
> ...


And YOU keep saying the same thing over and over, calling me a racist, and asking the same question about why I don’t “lecture” the poor whites in Appalachia. I’ve told you a zillion times that the POINT of this thread is that it isn’t racism that keeps the black subclass poor, but their poor choices - which are the same poor choices as poor whites. The difference is that the whites aren’t blaming racism, and blacks like you are.

And where did I mock black people? You are so deluded with thinking people who refuse to hold black responsible for their own choices are racist or mocking. With that line of thinking, no blacks are ever responsible for the way they turn out because…..racism.

Also, because of your delusions and insistence that people who don’t excuse away every failure among poor blacks are racist, you got mixed up with the years. But yes….10 years to rise from poverty to the middle class in my family. No help. Dad went from being a 20-year-old college student (no babies….) living in a tenement to being the owner of a house in the suburbs at age 30. The two generations refers to the amount of time blacks have had to take advantage of favoritism in college admissions (and plenty have), and if a minority of blacks are still poor after that, that’s their fault.

I’ll end with this. This will be the fifth time I’ve asked, and younahve skirted the question the previous four times: If racism is why 25% of blacks are stuck in poverty, then how are 75% NOT in poverty?

(And stop with your sanctimonious ”I know what you are“ remarks. For someone accusing others of acting superior, you sure hold yourself up to be a better person than I - and you are not.)


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 30, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So why don't you give us a quote by myself or others here where we claimed superiority?  Show me where Lisa, I or Monk said we are better because of our skin color.


Thanks. We’ve said nothing, as far as I know. Vine thinks that pointing out that blacks who are poor are so for the SAME REASONS as poor whites (out of wedlock babies and failure to finish school) makes one a racist. The ONLY way people like her think someone is NOT a racist is if they don’t hold blacks responsible for their own choices and instead blame racism.


----------



## Lisa558 (Apr 30, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam

And P.S. That was another sanctimonious slap when you said my upbringing was lacking. Maybe YOU need to look in the mirror. I don’t go around calling people “evil” for wanting to abolish race-based admissions policies or pointing out the two simple steps to move from poverty.

I was raised well, with good values. One of the things I learned (besides not to call people “evil” for disagreeing with me) is that you don’t go around making excuses for poor choices and blaming other people for one’s own actions.

I would suggest you take a good, hard look at yourself. Clearly, something in your upbringing was lacking, or you wouldn’t attack decent people with horrific accusations for making valid points.

Now we are done. We can discuss the correct decision the SCOTUS makes next year when it determines that “gerrymandering” admissions processes to arrive at a certain racial outcome is a violation of the equal protection clause. It’s as clear as black and white.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 30, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> How are you going to wager something you can't prove?  Nobody on the internet gives their names, dates or SS numbers to strange people on a blog.  What evidence could you present?  Hey, here is my CCW license from Florida:
> 
> View attachment 637914
> 
> ...


Wow Ray, that's a lot of excuses for someone who claims to have all of the answers.  Here's a scan of my Florida permit:




If you Google the phone number above it will take you to this page:





Why would I have a Florida concealed carry permit in my possession if it hadn't been issued to me?  

This is the funny part though


Ray From Cleveland said:


> Now Mrs CCW holder, can you explain to me what good a CCW license is if you can only carry a gun and never use it?


That's "Mrs Ms. CCWs holder numbering 5"

I'll go you one better.  By YOUR logic and the way you erroneously tied having a CCW license with the right to self defense, if we use the inverse of this situation, people WITHOUT a CCW license would have NO right to self defense.  And everyone knows that's not true, so you want to rethink your position or at least your explanation BEFORE you start working on your legal analysis as a non-attorney?

The *REASON *you believe what you do, that Martin's killing falls within the lawful parameters of the self-defense laws and that Zimmerman was somehow justified in his reaction, is because our alleged "justice" system has sanctioned not just this killing but millions prior to it.  That's why you believe it's okay for the police and others to kill black people for *disobedience* instead of because a valid imminent threat of grievous bodily harm or death was made.  It is also why black people are automatically viewed as threats to grease the skids for the allegations that will ultimately be made that "I was in fear for my life".  And our courts have said this is okay.

In the three years I have been here I have given you all a lot of leeway when it comes to your beliefs, rancor and open hostilities towards the black people here and apparently elsewhere.  There is no reason not to believe that if you are so mistaken about one thing and cling so fervently to said belief IN SPITE of being shown information to the contrary, that you will do so as well in other areas as well.


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## NewsVine_Mariyam (Apr 30, 2022)

This barely took me 5 minutes.


Ray From Cleveland said:


> So why don't you give us a quote by myself or others here where we claimed superiority?  Show me where Lisa, I or Monk said we are better because of our skin color.


White Separatism​*White separatism is a form of white supremacy* that emphasizes the idea that white people should exist separately from all inferior, non-white races, whether by establishing an all-white community somewhere or removing non-whites from their midst. *Some white supremacists also use the phrase because they believe it may be more benignly perceived by others than the term “white supremacist.*”
White Separatism

Link to original posting is here: 
Affirmative action, helpful or harmful?


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Look, you always go back to times when you weren't even on this planet yet. Talk about today, ten years ago, twenty years ago. I'll be the first to admit racism was strong and widespread in the past. I was a child of the 60s. I know what went on even back then. But times have changed, quite a bit actually. Talking about the past doesn't do you or anybody else any good since, well......it was the past.


Why in the hell do you get to talk about your dad, and Lisa gets to talk about her family escaping the Nazi's during the mid 1940s, but God forbid I talk about where my parents lived and where I grew up in the 50s onward.

Times may have changed but some habits die hard, including the resentment that many whites STILL have against black people.  I understand you all don't want to talk about that, however I really couldn't care less what you all WANT BECAUSE I do want to talk about WHY the white racists are STILL doing the things they always have.

Lisa feels it's her right to point out repeatedly, and erroneously I might add, that the reasons for the black people living in poverty are identical to the reasons that white people are living in poverty in the United States.  Did you all not see the parts of the Compton article I bolded and highlighted in red text that talked about the racially restrictive covenants that white racists in Compton used to keep black people out?  How are you supposed to get out of poverty if no one will allow you to move somewhere that's not poverty stricken because the white supremacists created laws that said "no black people"?

What I'm discussing happened during my lifetime, my parent's lifetime so it's not some ancient history like you all would like everyone to believe.  And while the laws may have changed, attitudes have not as demonstrated most recently by you Ray.  You a self-proclaimed white separatist which makes you a white racist.

You're part of the problem and unlike Lisa and her imaginary soap box, some of us have an audience who are interested in the comments you all make.  And quite frankly some of them are very appalled and have stated that none of you speak for white people, only other white racist.


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## Ray From Cleveland (May 1, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> This barely took me 5 minutes.
> 
> White Separatism​*White separatism is a form of white supremacy* that emphasizes the idea that white people should exist separately from all inferior, non-white races, whether by establishing an all-white community somewhere or removing non-whites from their midst. *Some white supremacists also use the phrase because they believe it may be more benignly perceived by others than the term “white supremacist.*”
> White Separatism
> ...



So where do you see racism in my comment?  Stating what's going on in this country is no more racist than posting facts about crime, imprisonment or educational failure.  Facts can't be racist, they are merely facts.  Racism (or white supremacy as you people like to call it) is stating whites are more intelligent than blacks, or more talented in entertainment, or whites are the only race that can reach economic achievements. 

I'd sure like to know your source for white supremacy.  Here's mine from Dictionary.com:

noun
the belief, theory, or doctrine that white people are inherently superior to people from all other racial and ethnic groups, especially Black people, and are therefore rightfully the dominant group in any society.









						Definition of white supremacy | Dictionary.com
					

White supremacy definition, the belief, theory, or doctrine that white people are inherently superior to people from all other racial and ethnic groups, especially Black people, and are therefore rightfully the dominant group in any society. See more.




					www.dictionary.com
				




I don't see anywhere in this definition where it states the desire of living separately is supremacy.  How can wanting to live with your own kind be an act of supremacy?  If you search my posts you'd also see I'm in favor of dividing our country into two countries instead: one side for leftists and the other side for righties.  Does that make me a right supremacist?


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## Westender (May 1, 2022)

Dekster said:


> And I would think at 62, at some point you were aware of and perhaps attended a segregated school.


No, we didn't have them in the panhandle of Florida in the 70s. Black people don't care about being parents much less school. I work for a athletic program at a major college, very few black athletes have 2 parents that give a crap about them. The majority are feral


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## Westender (May 1, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Why in the hell do you get to talk about your dad, and Lisa gets to talk about her family escaping the Nazi's during the mid 1940s, but God forbid I talk about where my parents lived and where I grew up in the 50s onward.
> 
> Times may have changed but some habits die hard, including the resentment that many whites STILL have against black people.  I understand you all don't want to talk about that, however I really couldn't care less what you all WANT BECAUSE I do want to talk about WHY the white racists are STILL doing the things they always have.
> 
> ...


Black people are much more racist than whites. I see young blacks with attitudes towards us all the time. It's a free country though, you have the right to hate people because of the color of your skin. I don't whine about it, I just don't support black businesses. Free country


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## Ray From Cleveland (May 1, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Why in the hell do you get to talk about your dad, and Lisa gets to talk about her family escaping the Nazi's during the mid 1940s, but God forbid I talk about where my parents lived and where I grew up in the 50s onward.
> 
> Times may have changed but some habits die hard, including the resentment that many whites STILL have against black people.  I understand you all don't want to talk about that, however I really couldn't care less what you all WANT BECAUSE I do want to talk about WHY the white racists are STILL doing the things they always have.
> 
> ...



The only reason we bring up our family and history is to demonstrate how what happened to our parents or grandparents have nothing to do with our lives today.  You bring up your past to excuse your failures.  Big difference.  You have never seen me or any white member here say that they are victims based on what happened to their ancestors.

You want to talk about resentment some whites have?  I'll be glad to talk about it.  So first question: do you think this resentment comes from skin color?  A simple yes or no answer will suffice.  Do you think this resentment would exist if most blacks were renown for keeping their neighborhood clean and safe, supportive of our police, renown for being law abiding citizens, hell bent against theft and violence, keeping up the academic standards of our schools, being quiet and coy people? 

People of different races can live together in peace.  People of different cultures can't. This is why whites can successfully live together with all kinds of different people with no problems.  We can live with Asians, we can live with people of middle-east decent, we can live with people of Hispanic decent.  Why is that?  Because these other groups of people don't move in and close our stores down with theft.  They don't move in and destroy our schools.  They don't move in and toss garbage all over the sidewalks and streets.  They don't make it unsafe to walk to your convenient store at night.  They don't destroy our property values.  They don't force cities to close down public events because you can't assemble any number of these people without it breaking out into gang fights or riots. 

So if you say that the resentment is because of skin color, it's just as much of a lie as saying your failures are because of your skin color.  But if you say the resentment comes from how blacks conduct themselves, then you are dead on.  How can anybody not be resentful when their property lost value instead of gaining value in the past 20 years or so?  How can anybody not be resentful when they have to travel to the other side of town where it's white just to go shopping at a major store?


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## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 1, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> NewsVine_Mariyam
> 
> And P.S. That was another sanctimonious slap when you said my upbringing was lacking. Maybe YOU need to look in the mirror. I don’t go around calling people “evil” for wanting to abolish race-based admissions policies or pointing out the two simple steps to move from poverty.
> 
> ...


You're not a decent person Lisa, why can't you just admit that you don't think much of black people.  It's not like we don't know it.  And I'm not saying that you should or have to but when it shows in you the way it does, I don''t understand the point of denying it.

And spare me the bullshit about how you were well raised with good values.  If that is true how has it escaped your attention that your constant denigration of black people, especially those less fortunate than you shows your true colors and they are not "beautiful".

If you don't like being called evil then maybe you should check yourself and quit telling lies about others as if they were the gospel truth.  I have shown you repeatedly how and why the circumstances which result in people living in poverty are not exact between white people and black people in the United States of America yet your inability to even examine what I'm telling you or to read any of the historical documentation I've provided says you're either stubborn, a fake persona who enjoys being hostile towards black people or stupid.  Quite likely all of the above.

And by the way, you lost what little credibility you had left when you attempted to color me as an "angry black woman":

Close your eyes and picture an angry Black woman. It only took an instant to visualize her, right? The image is ready-made: one hand on her hip, one finger pointed in your face, head and neck swiveling. You can probably hear her Black English. She probably strikes you as intimidating.  She's overly sensitive and mannish. She's easy to piss off and difficult to calm down. She's aggressive and irrational, too loud and too much.​​She's also _not real_. Let me repeat: The image of the angry Black woman (ABW) that surfaced so easily in your mind is as fake as a fairy tale. She's imaginary, but she's by no means an accident. She — the trope — is meant to control and undermine Black women, to punish us when we express even slight and reasonable indignation, pain, or irritation (let alone rage), and to protect a status quo in which Black women and girls are often treated as interchangeable, irrational problems instead of human beings with very reasonable complaints.​​*The angry Black woman character goes way back. I see its roots in chattel slavery, when expressions of Black female anger, particularly toward white people, were profoundly justified but also impermissible. With a culture and economy that depended on viciously controlling Black women's bodies and lives, it made good economic sense to portray Black female anger as unreasonable and ugly instead of as a rational response to subordination and humiliation.*​​


> Once we're seen as angry, the "Angry Black Woman" stereotype deems that _anger_ as explosive, irrational, and scary.​


​The trope found its way into minstrel shows, where white men donned blackface and fatsuits to play boorish and brooding caricatures of Black women. It moved from that 18th- and 19th-century white imagination to 20th-century entertainment, showing up in dramas such as _Gone with the Wind_ and comedies such as _Amos 'n Andy_. Popular entertainment from the 1990s, including _The Jerry Springer Show_ and _Ricki Lake_ — which I consumed as a child — helped reinforce the stereotype.​​_*In recent years, our culture has stapled the belittling ABW label to Michelle Obama, Serena Williams, Kamala Harris, Shonda Rhimes, Congresswoman Maxine Waters, Meghan Markle, Jemele Hill, and many others in response to the kind of truth-telling, creativity, and demand for self-respect we frequently applaud in others. Each of these women has hard-won power and an authoritative voice — but we, as a culture, don't often want to hear what Black women have to say.*_
_https://www.shape.com/lifestyle/mind-and-body/mental-health/angry-black-woman_​


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## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 1, 2022)

Westender said:


> Black people are much more racist than whites. I see young blacks with attitudes towards us all the time. It's a free country though, you have the right to hate people because of the color of your skin. I don't whine about it, I just don't support black businesses. Free country


Your opinion, however worthless, is noted.


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## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I can only thank God I'm not of that mentality; to say all my problems are in the control of another person, person(s), or group of people, especially when so many like me have done much better all on their own.  What's the point of living in a free country then?  Might as well move to Cuba or North Korea where you can actually blame others for your inability to advance yourself.
> 
> People come here from all over the world, and yes, including black countries because they had no opportunity where they were born.  Those people do have legitimate excuses.  Even if they only had a 5% chance at advancing themselves, it's worth it to them because 5% is better than  0%.  But the truth is they have a much greater chance at advancement and even becoming successful.  It's why they spend the time, money, and effort to get here legally.
> 
> When I thank God for the things I have, the top two on my list are a good family and being born in the greatest country in the world.  If you can't avoid being a failure here, you are a total loser because there isn't a country in the world where you won't be a failure.  At that point you have to come to the conclusion it's inherent, and not bad luck, race, or poverty.


Quit patting yourselves on the backs, you all aren't special and certainly no better than anyone else, in spite of your white supremacist _erroneous _beliefs.


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## IM2 (May 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So why don't you give us a quote by myself or others here where we claimed superiority?  Show me where Lisa, I or Monk said we are better because of our skin color.


Considering that you think you can tell blacks what they have lived through is not so, or the reason for a problem cannot be what blacks say they are, but can only be the way you, lisa or monk say is pretty much telling us that you're better because of your skin color.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 1, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> The really funny thing about that is I grew up near MacAurther Park near Tommys.  Compton was a much nicer area than I lived in then (that was the mid-sixties and early seventies) The last time I was in Compton, about 2008 I think, it was a hell hole of run down houses and small apartment buildings with gang members standing around.  The area I grew up in is mostly Latino now with some gangs, but most people are working, the southern area near the Park is part of Koreatown and is thriving.
> Those covenants were a bad thing, but they existed.  What you refuse to acknowledge is that the Irish, Italians, Eastern Europeans, Jews, Japanese, Chinese, Arabs, Greeks, Germans and many other groups were all discriminated against in the past, but are all thriving now and part of society.  They all refused to allow discrimination by intolerant people define them.


Are the

Irish people Negro or people of African descent - NO they are not
Italians Negro or people of African descent - NO they are not
Eastern Europeans Negro or people of African descent - NO they are not
Jews Negro or people of African descent - NO they are not
Japanese Negro or people of African descent - NO they are not
Chinese Negro or people of African descent - NO they are not
Arabs Negro or people of African descent - NO they are not
Greeks Negro or people of African descent - NO they are not
Germans Negro or people of African descent - NO they are not








A timeline of legislation that only applied to black people to their detriment that DID NOT apply to white people 
TimelineJS Embed


----------



## IM2 (May 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The only reason we bring up our family and history is to demonstrate how what happened to our parents or grandparents have nothing to do with our lives today. You bring up your past to excuse your failures. Big difference. You have never seen me or any white member here say that they are victims based on what happened to their ancestors.


That victim shit is used by racists. Your families have not faced continuing racis. You do know what continuing means don't you? It means that this discussion is not just about the past, but about YOUR RACISM RIGHT NOW.

Your are a loser white male stuck in a Cleveland slum. I am a black man who owns my home in a fairly nice hood. You are uneducated, I am college educated. I have helped build several non profits. You can't even drive a truck anymore, but you're talking about excuses for failure to people who have not failed. The only person making excuses here are you, lisa and other whites.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> You want to talk about resentment some whites have? I'll be glad to talk about it. So first question: do you think this resentment comes from skin color? A simple yes or no answer will suffice. Do you think this resentment would exist if most blacks were renown for keeping their neighborhood clean and safe, supportive of our police, renown for being law abiding citizens, hell bent against theft and violence, keeping up the academic standards of our schools, being quiet and coy people?



You have resentment. And when you look at crime, the higher numbers belong to whites. But you racists have an excuse for that, you'll just take the number of  offender divide them by a entire population then muliply it by 100,000 then claim that's the correct way to determine activities that happen one on one. Then after you do that, you whine about how you are an individual. Whites aren't known to be any of the things you posted. You are just white racist trash.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> People of different races can live together in peace. People of different cultures can't. This is why whites can successfully live together with all kinds of different people with no problems. We can live with Asians, we can live with people of middle-east decent, we can live with people of Hispanic decent. Why is that? Because these other groups of people don't move in and close our stores down with theft. They don't move in and destroy our schools. They don't move in and toss garbage all over the sidewalks and streets. They don't make it unsafe to walk to your convenient store at night. They don't destroy our property values. They don't force cities to close down public events because you can't assemble any number of these people without it breaking out into gang fights or riots.



Whites have gangs dumb ass. And 1-6-2021 was not done by blacks. Whites have fucked up plenty of public events. We live in America, therefore we are part on the American culture. You substitute culture for race so you can lie about your racism. If you want to play that way, white culture has been the biggest problem and it is because of whites like you.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> So if you say that the resentment is because of skin color, it's just as much of a lie as saying your failures are because of your skin color. But if you say the resentment comes from how blacks conduct themselves, then you are dead on. How can anybody not be resentful when their property lost value instead of gaining value in the past 20 years or so? How can anybody not be resentful when they have to travel to the other side of town where it's white just to go shopping at a major store?



The resentment is because of race. You travel across town because of retail redlining. White racism is the root cause of our problem. You're problems come from you being ignorant and racist. Your property has not lost value and the claim that blacks cause property values to decrease is an old unproven racist piece of crap. You're a racist Ray. Own it.


----------



## IM2 (May 1, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> NewsVine_Mariyam
> 
> And P.S. That was another sanctimonious slap when you said my upbringing was lacking. Maybe YOU need to look in the mirror. I don’t go around calling people “evil” for wanting to abolish race-based admissions policies or pointing out the two simple steps to move from poverty.
> 
> ...


You're a racist. Your upbringing WAS lacking.


----------



## IM2 (May 1, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> And YOU keep saying the same thing over and over, calling me a racist, and asking the same question about why I don’t “lecture” the poor whites in Appalachia. I’ve told you a zillion times that the POINT of this thread is that it isn’t racism that keeps the black subclass poor, but their poor choices - which are the same poor choices as poor whites. The difference is that the whites aren’t blaming racism, and blacks like you are.
> 
> And where did I mock black people? You are so deluded with thinking people who refuse to hold black responsible for their own choices are racist or mocking. With that line of thinking, no blacks are ever responsible for the way they turn out because…..racism.
> 
> ...


You are a racist.


----------



## IM2 (May 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> She's here but probably in a different topic.  It gets old repeating the same things over and over again to the same people and they never seem to get it or understand.


We understand that we  are talking to some dumb ass racists and YOU are the ones who don't get it.


----------



## IM2 (May 1, 2022)

Did any of you racists get out of high school? Or did they just not teach history where you guys live?


----------



## Lisa558 (May 1, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> You're not a decent person Lisa, why can't you just admit that you don't think much of black people.  It's not like we don't know it.  And I'm not saying that you should or have to but when it shows in you the way it does, I don''t understand the point of denying it.
> 
> And spare me the bullshit about how you were well raised with good values.  If that is true how has it escaped your attention that your constant denigration of black people, especially those less fortunate than you shows your true colors and they are not "beautiful".
> 
> ...


I don’t know where to start with all your bullshit.

1) Saying that racism is not to blame for the minority of blacks being in poverty - but their own choices, just as it is with whites - is not denigrating them. It’s pointing out that racism isn’t the cause.

2) Odd how you accuse me of feeling superior, and then you lash out - since you feel you can judge people - that my background is lacking. YOUR background is lacking. People raised right don‘t go around calling people evil, and when that is pointed out to them, double down and insist…..yes, you ARE evil. What kind of decent person with a proper upbringing does that?

3) And we are not allowed to describe any black person as angry? You are certainly angry, lashing out at people with nasty accusations simply because they fail to submit to your beliefs?

Finally, for the sixth (6th!) time: if racism is why 25% of blacks are in poverty, then why are 75% of blacks NOT in poverty?


----------



## Lisa558 (May 1, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Quit patting yourselves on the backs, you all aren't special and certainly no better than anyone else, in spite of your white supremacist _erroneous _beliefs.


Again, pointing out that people who do not have babies as teens and instead complete their schooling - whether white or black - does not make one a white supremacist.


----------



## Lisa558 (May 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The only reason we bring up our family and history is to demonstrate how what happened to our parents or grandparents have nothing to do with our lives today.  You bring up your past to excuse your failures.  Big difference.  You have never seen me or any white member here say that they are victims based on what happened to their ancestors.
> 
> You want to talk about resentment some whites have?  I'll be glad to talk about it.  So first question: do you think this resentment comes from skin color?  A simple yes or no answer will suffice.  Do you think this resentment would exist if most blacks were renown for keeping their neighborhood clean and safe, supportive of our police, renown for being law abiding citizens, hell bent against theft and violence, keeping up the academic standards of our schools, being quiet and coy people?
> 
> ...


Exactly. But Vine is so angry (oops….not allowed to described a black person as angry, she tells me) at whites who point out that blacks can and do rise from poverty due to their own choices that she can’t decipher the difference between us talking about our poor family backgrounds and her talking about her family background.

And my family background runs more parallel to what we are talking about in this thread: impoverished, persecuted grandparents who suffered  horrible the bigotry against their people, and yet all their kids still managed to graduate from college. How so? Because they knew THEY and they alone were responsible for how their lives turned out, and they made the right choices.

And if I might circle back to upbringing, since Vine in her superior wisdom saw fit to criticize MINE - people who are brought up well have learned that you don’t blame other people for your own mistakes,


----------



## Deplorable Yankee (May 1, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The reason for poverty among blacks who remain poor (most are working class or above) is the same reason that whites in poverty remain poor. It is due to having babies while still in one’s teens, without a husband, and often without completing high school as a result.
> 
> Anyone can break free of poverty by doing the following, at a minimum:
> 
> ...


----------



## Lisa558 (May 1, 2022)

Deplorable Yankee said:


> View attachment 638875


What in the world is your point? That a middle class family had babies? Nobody on this thead said that blacks and whites shouldn’t marry. That’s how White Suoremacists think,  and nobody here is one,

You leftists need to stop accusing people of being racists simply because they point out that making good choices is the way out of poverty, for blacks and whites alike.

You know who you sanctimonious liberals, who have erroneously convinced themselves that good, decent people are racists simply because they don’t agree with liberalism, remind me of?Javert in Les Miz. He had convinced himself that his adversary, Jon Valjean, was some awful, evil criminal - and he devoted his life to capturing him and punishing him for the person (he thought) he was. Then when he finally saw who Valjean actually was - a decent person - the pain of realizing that he had wasted his life on a demon that existed only in his mind - that he couldn’t live with it.


----------



## Lisa558 (May 1, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Wow Ray, that's a lot of excuses for someone who claims to have all of the answers.  Here's a scan of my Florida permit:
> View attachment 638802
> 
> If you Google the phone number above it will take you to this page:
> ...


Wow. More sanctimony from the woman who goes around accusing others of feeling superior.

YOU are telling Ray why he believes what he believes? Do you even hear the air of superiority that you reveal with that comment?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 1, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Exactly. But Vine is so angry (oops….not allowed to described a black person as angry, she tells me) at whites who point out that blacks can and do rise from poverty due to their own choices that she can’t decipher the difference between us talking about our poor family backgrounds and her talking about her family background.
> 
> And my family background runs more parallel to what we are talking about in this thread: impoverished, persecuted grandparents who suffered  horrible the bigotry against their people, and yet all their kids still managed to graduate from college. How so? Because they knew THEY and they alone were responsible for how their lives turned out, and they made the right choices.
> 
> And if I might circle back to upbringing, since Vine in her superior wisdom saw fit to criticize MINE - people who are brought up well have learned that you don’t blame other people for your own mistakes,



As the old saying goes, actions speak louder than words. 

When people came to this country (and still do) they immediately went into action.  They found jobs, worked a lot of hours, switched jobs if another paid better, some even went without televisions and phones, and of course took public transportation everywhere they went unless they were fortunate enough to have a single car in the family. 

With their heavy accents they were looked down upon by employers of different ethnicity.  Their children attended school and the parents were strict on learning.  They themselves took night classes to learn our language.  They would likely never be financially successful, but that didn't matter as long as they had the opportunity to advance themselves, an option that their former country never offered them.  

The point I'm making is that people who came here from places of no opportunity took advantage of every possible thing they could get their hands on.  Did blacks do that when laws were created in their favor?  Some did of course.  They are called Uncle Tom's by their own people because they did.  But others sat back to dwell on their past wallowing in their own pity instead of saying they did every possible thing to advance their life. Now a few generations later, they still are. 

My father found a jack of all trades handyman.   They became friends throughout the years because of their shared interest in construction and household repairs.  My father calls him to do work that I could do, but I understand he's only looking for an excuse to have the guy come over just to see him.  I hired him a few times myself when my father could get a hold of the guy.  It's very difficult because he does good work at a more than reasonable price.  

This guy is around my age so I know by the time he became an adult he never faced any real discrimination.  Now nearing retirement he's loaded with money.  My father would tell me about all the kinds of cars he owns.  In spite of his success, he's still hard to get a hold of because he's so damn busy.  He'll probably work until he dies because he just loves working.  He didn't let Jim Crow, slavery, the excuse of discrimination stop him.  I think if he had the education or interest in finances he'd probably be a multi-millionaire today.


----------



## Lisa558 (May 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> As the old saying goes, actions speak louder than words.
> 
> When people came to this country (and still do) they immediately went into action.  They found jobs, worked a lot of hours, switched jobs if another paid better, some even went without televisions and phones, and of course took public transportation everywhere they went unless they were fortunate enough to have a single car in the family.
> 
> ...


You have it so completely on target.

I use my grandparents as an example, but of course they are representative of millions who arrived around the same time: poor, uneducated, not even speaking the language. But they immediately got jobs, often in sweatshops working 12 hours a day - grateful that they were in a country that allowed opportunities, and moving beyond the discrimination, bigotry, and/or limited opportunities of their previous countries.

 Our families were thankful simply for a chance, and that the old ways we’re behind them. Blacks today have been given FAVORITISM over whites, since the late 70s, especially in terms of admission to college, but also in terms of jobs in liberal cities. The federal government is notorious for this - giving black hires and promotions priority over whites.

And as you note, many blacks have taken advantage of this. The black people near me shopping in upscale malls, eating in fancy steakhouses, and buying large colonial homes are often two-income government emoloyees. Others are doctors and lawyers, more likely than not benefitting from the lowered standards of admission to these programs.

Now some blacks did NOT take advantage of the favoritism in admissions. They did not take out Pell Grants for a free community college degree. They did not use birth control in high school (or better yet, refrain from sex since an unwanted pregnancy can derail one’s life at that age). IOW, they made the wrong choices - same as whites who remain stuck in poverty. Blaming it on racism is just plain wrong, and demonizing people who point it out is even worse.


----------



## JoeB131 (May 1, 2022)

Paul, I'd recommend you get help, but I can't think of a therapist I dislike enough to wish you on.  



Paul Essien said:


> So you can read people's minds then ?
> 
> Like all white supremacists you put forward arguments that are the opposite of social science, the scientific method begins with a hypothesis and then examines all the evidence, for and against that hypothesis, without presuming to know what the data will suggest in the end. White supremacists, begin with an unshakeable belief - black people are dangerous and out to harm whites and then find any evidence they can that fits their hypothesis.



Simple logic, One person does something on the spur of the moment.  Five people making repeated decisions is a conspiracy.  Is this what you are really defending, five people who kidnapped a couple, repeatedly raped them and then murdered them? 



Paul Essien said:


> You're just like @Ray From Cleveland and @Lisa558 in fact your worse, at least they're kinda upfront and honest about.
> 
> Your just one of those white supreamacist I used to debate with in college, the ones that try so hard to sound and come across as intelligent but in reality they just masquerade their internal chaos into a form of rationality
> 
> ...



Actually, I'm the first one to admit that I grew up in a racist society, and have to constantly evaluate my attitudes.  It's called self-reflection.  This is something you and Lisa both lack, just from different ends of the spectrum. 



Paul Essien said:


> Says the person who excuses cops killing 10 year old blk kids.



Again, which 10 year old kid are we talking about.  Tamir Rice was 12 and I've condemned what the cops did there. 



Paul Essien said:


> We face the most powerful miltary on the planet. The most powerful country on earth.
> 
> We are out numbered, out gunned and out financed but we get out fight white and non blk ppl till hell freezes over and then we will fight you on that fkin ice.
> 
> No race of ppl hae that kinda heart.



Oh, let's get real.  I was in the army for 11 years...  Most of the guys who I served with (regardless of race) weren't there to fight, or to liberate anyone.  They were there for the benefits.  



Paul Essien said:


> The reason why immigrants can come to this country is because of the fighting black Americans have fought for. That's why the arrows of racism is aimed at black people. We have no friends. That's why I hate the term "_People of Color_" Because we are the only people fighting you. Asians and Latinos are white ass lickers who have the same anti blk contempt.


Okay, let's look at that.   If America was as racist as you say, then why do Hispanics and especially Asians do so well? Do you think they don't run into bigots? 

I will be the first one to admit, they haven't had the experience black people have had...  slavery, Jim Crow, etc.  But they also aren't white, and by your logic, shouldn't do well.  



Paul Essien said:


> Is that supposed to impress me ?


Nope, I think you are too mired in your own hate.  



Paul Essien said:


> And I do very well. Black wife. Black child. Nice house. Nice car. Own my business. But I don't get fooled by that. I'm not _"I 'm doinhg very well. Why can't these others blacks do it ?"_ Because for one the white supremacists can take it all away, and two I still do with white supremacy, maybe even more than most, because when you try to build and grow, buy real estate, even cash in hand, u still deal with the white supremacists



Again, is it because they are white supremacists, or is because you are kind of an asshole?  If you come off in person like you come off here, I suspect most people wouldn't want to deal with you.  You are the pain in the ass customer every barista and cashier fears.  



Paul Essien said:


> Bothing to do witb that. Just the jury was filled with white supremacist, like you who simply stayed on code.It's a bit like if you were in court and if the black man was innocent, you'd still give him life without parole. Nothing to do with emotion. It's once again, you staying on code.



Actually, I would judge the case on the evidence.  

In the case of Petersen, the evidence wasn't really there.   There was just the emotional aspect that his wife was pregnant and he was stepping out with another woman.  That jury didn't convict on evidence, it convicted on emotion.  (And frankly, him stepping out on his pregnant wife kind of made him an asshole.) 

In the case of Strickland... a witness identified him, he was an associate of the two guys who who did do it, and when the cops hauled him in, he talked about how he liked to shoot people.   Um, yeah, stupidity might not be a crime, but it doesn't help.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 1, 2022)

IM2 said:


> That victim shit is used by racists. Your families have not faced continuing racis. You do know what continuing means don't you? It means that this discussion is not just about the past, but about YOUR RACISM RIGHT NOW.
> 
> Your are a loser white male stuck in a Cleveland slum. I am a black man who owns my home in a fairly nice hood. You are uneducated, I am college educated. I have helped build several non profits. You can't even drive a truck anymore, but you're talking about excuses for failure to people who have not failed. The only person making excuses here are you, lisa and other whites.
> 
> ...



Ah, so more excuses.  Red lining is not why stores close down.  They close down when theft makes it impossible to create profit.  The Walton's don't need banks to open up new stores.  

Whites don't determine property value, the banks do.  That determination is made based on what people are willing to pay to live in a certain area, and nobody wants to live around blacks; not because of racism, but because of crime, noise, filth, and bad upkeep of property.  

Of course you're not a failure.  Nobody on your side of the fence is.  You just preach about how other people are and are speaking on their behalf.  It's like these liberals around here that claim their success but taxes are not high enough for them.  It simply makes no sense.  Isn't the internet such a wonderful thing?  You can pretend to be anybody you want to be.

So now I live in a slum, huh?  Tell me, who turned it into a slum?  It was one of the top rated suburbs when I moved here 35 years ago. So what happened?  We used to have at best one murder every 15 years or so compared to today where it's several a year.  Property value increased every year.  We were flooded with stores and businesses.  Our police were so bored they had nothing better to do than do traffic stops.  Our schools were rated one of the best in the county.  So what changed?

Whites have fucked up plenty of events?  Then why did we always have successful events here years ago with no problems?  Can you show me the last sporting event where the white audience created a mob scene?  Seems to me when the news reports it, it's always an all black audience just like it is in my city.  

Just for fun, I counted the number of times you used the word "race" or "racist" in your reply.  Eight times in five short paragraphs.  You've been trained well.


----------



## Westender (May 1, 2022)

IM2 said:


> That victim shit is used by racists. Your families have not faced continuing racis. You do know what continuing means don't you? It means that this discussion is not just about the past, but about YOUR RACISM RIGHT NOW.
> 
> Your are a loser white male stuck in a Cleveland slum. I am a black man who owns my home in a fairly nice hood. You are uneducated, I am college educated. I have helped build several non profits. You can't even drive a truck anymore, but you're talking about excuses for failure to people who have not failed. The only person making excuses here are you, lisa and other whites.
> 
> ...


Here's some evidence for you, the most heinous crime there is. An eighth of the population commits 55.9% of the murders. Tell me how that won't drop your property values.

"According to the FBI, African-Americans accounted for 55.9% of all homicide offenders in 2019, with whites 41.1%, and "Other" 3.0% in cases where the race was known. Among homicide victims in 2019 where the race was known, *54.7%* were black or African-American, 42.3% were white, and 3.1% were of other races."





__





						Race and crime in the United States - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## JoeB131 (May 1, 2022)

IM2 said:


> What I will say to you about this Joe is that Paul is the result of racism he has faced. Lisa and Ray are racists, real live white supremacists who believe blacks are less human. There is a difference. There is only so much so much of the double standards and recognition of the way the system is maintained that a person of color will tolerate. Paul has a right to be angry, so does every black person in this country. It is indeed arrogant for a group of people to have done what whites have done to us, then tell us we are wrong for being angry.



What does being angry get you?   I've had a lot of shitty things happen to me in my life, and frankly, I'm still angry about some of them.   Angry doesn't solve the problem. Being angry at people who didn't cause the problem is part of it.  

Ray doesn't want to talk to me right now, but I get some of his anger.  He worked all his life to buy his property, which isn't worth the money he paid for it because his neighborhood has changed due to the Government dumping a bunch of Section 8 people into it.  Because he didn't gain other skills, when the government told him he could no longer drive a truck, he was stuck going on disability.  He is like a lot of white people in this country- they see themselves not having the affluence their parents had, and getting blamed for stuff they really had no hand in.  

Not that Ray isn't a contemptable racist, because he is... but I can also see how the system screwed him. So he lashes out.  He picks out the news story that makes him angrier... He and Paul have a lot more in common than you want to admit. 



IM2 said:


> Paul has been correct about the things he has said. We aren't talking about conspiracies. As you are not a racist, perhaps instead of trying to compare Paul to pure white racist trash, that you begin to understand how he has come to feeling that way, because in my experience as a black man, I find that brother Paul Essen has a message you guys need to hear. It's not going to be what you like to hear, but until you guys can understand that we do have the right to be angry, whites will not do everything they need to make racism in the white community irrelevant.



Okay, let's look at that.  

Most white people who watched the George Floyd tape were upset.  They completely agreed with you that what Chauvin did was completely out of line. They even agreed that this was the time for substantial police reform. 

But then it got carried too far.  The riots dragged on for months.  Property was destroyed.  Crime rates spiked, partially because the police were overwhelmed, partially because no one wanted to be the next Chauvin.   And look how close Trump came to winning a second term, despite all his failures? 

Santayana once describes a fanatic as someone who redoubles his efforts while losing sight of his goal.  

So what is your goal, and how do you get there?


----------



## JoeB131 (May 1, 2022)

okay, that part where I just kind of stuck up for Ray... boy, he makes it hard. 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Ah, so more excuses. Red lining is not why stores close down. They close down when theft makes it impossible to create profit. The Walton's don't need banks to open up new stores.
> 
> Whites don't determine property value, the banks do. That determination is made based on what people are willing to pay to live in a certain area, and nobody wants to live around blacks; not because of racism, but because of crime, noise, filth, and bad upkeep of property.



So essentially, the banks and the Waltons decide to make a community a slum, and it becomes a slum... and you think this is okay. 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Of course you're not a failure. Nobody on your side of the fence is. You just preach about how other people are and are speaking on their behalf. It's like these liberals around here that claim their success but taxes are not high enough for them. It simply makes no sense. Isn't the internet such a wonderful thing? You can pretend to be anybody you want to be.



I think my taxes are plenty high.   They aren't high enough on the guy who has 5 Billion dollars to build a dick-rocket and fly into space with Captain Kirk.  The ironic thing is you guys complain about the size of government and then want more tax cuts.... when in reality- when you get all this stuff for free and you don't have to pay for it, you just want more of it.  The fastest way to make government smaller would be to have high enough taxes to pay for it all, and then some to pay back all the debt.  



Ray From Cleveland said:


> So now I live in a slum, huh? Tell me, who turned it into a slum? It was one of the top rated suburbs when I moved here 35 years ago. So what happened? We used to have at best one murder every 15 years or so compared to today where it's several a year. Property value increased every year. We were flooded with stores and businesses. Our police were so bored they had nothing better to do than do traffic stops. Our schools were rated one of the best in the county. So what changed?



Okay, here's what changed.  Your city was once an industrial hub, second to only Detroit in the Auto industry.  Then the Auto industry changed.  Japanese and German cars entered the market, and people liked them better because Volkswagen and Toyota understood the emerging market, while the Big Three kept cranking out Pintos and Chevettes and Gremlins.  A couple of bailouts later, the Auto Industry recovered, but Detroit and Cleveland didn't.  People who could get out did... people who couldn't didn't.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 1, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> You have it so completely on target.
> 
> I use my grandparents as an example, but of course they are representative of millions who arrived around the same time: poor, uneducated, not even speaking the language. But they immediately got jobs, often in sweatshops working 12 hours a day - grateful that they were in a country that allowed opportunities, and moving beyond the discrimination, bigotry, and/or limited opportunities of their previous countries.
> 
> ...



It all boils down to value.  We were born in this country.  Opportunity has been with us all of our lives so many don't value it as much.  If we want it, it's always there for us.  We don't have to go out of our way, travel thousands of miles for it, wait for years and over a decade to get this unique opportunity, leave behind family and friends.  It's right at our front door if we decide we want it. 

It's kind of like if you were born into a wealthy family.  Your father buys you a new car every two years.  Do you really value those cars?  To a degree perhps.  Yeah, you'll take it to the car wash once in a while, get out the shop vac to clean up all the garbage laying around on the seats and floor the last six months.  But you won't value that car like a person who never had one before, had to save for a couple of years, take a loan out, and make payments on the damn thing for the next five years.  Those people hand wash their car several times a week.  Apply wax once a month, wipe the slightest smudge off the windshield or windows, check the oil and tire pressure weekly.  That car means everything to them. 

It's a shame people born here don't value liberty and opportunity as much as foreigners who come here, but it is what it is.


----------



## JoeB131 (May 1, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Finally, for the sixth (6th!) time: if racism is why 25% of blacks are in poverty, then why are 75% of blacks NOT in poverty?



Because they work hard despite racism...  

Also, your numbers are wrong...  19.2% of blacks live below poverty line, while 8.2% of whites do.  



Lisa558 said:


> What in the world is your point? That a middle class family had babies? Nobody on this thead said that blacks and whites shouldn’t marry. That’s how White Suoremacists think, and nobody here is one,



I think his point was that the black boyfriend in the first picture was out of the picture by the second picture, but the kid was still there....   So it was a backhanded slap at black people not knowing what the relationship issues were at that point.


----------



## JoeB131 (May 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It's a shame people born here don't value liberty and opportunity as much as foreigners who come here, but it is what it is.



Or, maybe black people watch the Jews, the Germans, the Irish, The Italians all jump in line ahead of them, and then they see the Asians and the Hispanics jump in line ahead of them, too.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 1, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Considering that you think you can tell blacks what they have lived through is not so, or the reason for a problem cannot be what blacks say they are, but can only be the way you, lisa or monk say is pretty much telling us that you're better because of your skin color.



When TF did any of us ever say that?  You are the one telling us that race is your crutch, and it's us telling you that it's not.  That's racist?  It seems to me it's quite the opposite.  We are telling you that you and people of your race have no disabilities when it comes to financial stability or success.  We are looking at you as individuals, not as the kid on the short bus like the Democrats do.  We are saying we are Americans, and you too are an American, perfectly capable of advancing yourself with your own hard work, good decisions and merits just like anybody else.  

If racism were responsible, no black person today would be able to move forward.  All blacks would be poor, in prison, unable to manage your own affairs.  But that's not true is it?  There are plenty of people in your race that do just fine, in fact most do.  What does that tell us?  It tells us that much like our race, success or failure is generally based on your decision making, not your race.   How can we deliver anymore positive advice than that?


----------



## Turtlesoup (May 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Or, maybe black people watch the Jews, the Germans, the Irish, The Italians all jump in line ahead of them, and then they see the Asians and the Hispanics jump in line ahead of them, too.


Jump in what line?


----------



## Turtlesoup (May 1, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Considering that you think you can tell blacks what they have lived through is not so, or the reason for a problem cannot be what blacks say they are, but can only be the way you, lisa or monk say is pretty much telling us that you're better because of your skin color.


I am the one that does that.   History says what the race hos say isn't true.   Black activists claims of Floyd and others being the victims---almost never holds water.    People lie--especially people who support criminal activity.


----------



## Turtlesoup (May 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Because they work hard despite racism...
> 
> Also, your numbers are wrong...  19.2% of blacks live below poverty line, while 8.2% of whites do.
> 
> ...


Collecting welfare working part times at mcdonalds is not working hard hun.


----------



## JoeB131 (May 1, 2022)

Turtlesoup said:


> Collecting welfare working part times at mcdonalds is not working hard hun.



I'd like to see anyone who says shit like that have to work for a week at McDonalds...  you wouldn't last a week.  

What should happen is McDonald's should pay everyone a living wage, not cheat them at every opportunity.  



Ray From Cleveland said:


> If racism were responsible, no black person today would be able to move forward. All blacks would be poor, in prison, unable to manage your own affairs. But that's not true is it? There are plenty of people in your race that do just fine, in fact most do. What does that tell us? It tells us that much like our race, success or failure is generally based on your decision making, not your race. How can we deliver anymore positive advice than that?



No one is saying you can't overcome the obstacles, the question is, why are the obstacles still there to start with?  Sure, there are lots of successful black people, who still have to put up with being racially profiled, or pulled over for a DWB. 

Do I need to show the tape of the black Second Lt. who got guns shoved in his face over a traffic stop?


----------



## IM2 (May 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> When TF did any of us ever say that?  You are the one telling us that race is your crutch, and it's us telling you that it's not.  That's racist?  It seems to me it's quite the opposite.  We are telling you that you and people of your race have no disabilities when it comes to financial stability or success.  We are looking at you as individuals, not as the kid on the short bus like the Democrats do.  We are saying we are Americans, and you too are an American, perfectly capable of advancing yourself with your own hard work, good decisions and merits just like anybody else.
> 
> If racism were responsible, no black person today would be able to move forward.  All blacks would be poor, in prison, unable to manage your own affairs.  But that's not true is it?  There are plenty of people in your race that do just fine, in fact most do.  What does that tell us?  It tells us that much like our race, success or failure is generally based on your decision making, not your race.   How can we deliver anymore positive advice than that?


You're saying this in all your posts. Racism is the problem. Madame CJ Walker became a millionaire during Jim Crow, so don't talk stupid. Blacks are 13 percent of the population with 2 percent of the wealth. No matter how low poverty is blacks live at double the rate. No matter how low unemployment is, blacks have double the unemployment rate. Black median income has always been lower than whites regardless of education. Blacks get paid less than whites even when their education and experience are the same. None of this is because people are having babies you, not graduating high school or whatever else whitey wants to define for us as the problem.

You can't tell me shit white boy. I am telling you that the root cause of this problem is white racism and unlike you, I have the economic data that supports my opinion. The problem we have are due to decisions made by whites in power. You're an ignorant uneducated white man who tried to argue about an economic matter using birth rates and incarceration rates. And all your arguments refuse to factor in white racism which is a reality we face whether your white ass likes hearing it or not. So shut up being white trying to tell me how things are for blacks.


----------



## IM2 (May 1, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I don’t know where to start with all your bullshit.
> 
> 1) Saying that racism is not to blame for the minority of blacks being in poverty - but their own choices, just as it is with whites - is not denigrating them. It’s pointing out that racism isn’t the cause.
> 
> ...


Racism is the problem. You've never lived as a black person to face it, so shut your fucking mouth. 1 in 4 blacks live in poverty. I in 12 whites do. But you don't see the problem.  In 2020, the American household median income was $67,521 per year.  The median income for non-Hispanic White households was $74.912; for Blacks households, $45,870.50 Black household median income was 61 percent of white households in 2020.

But racism is not the problem.

Payscale did a two-year study from 2017 to 2019, and this is their conclusion: _"we find equal pay for equal work is still not a reality."_ They studied the earnings of white men and men of color using data from 1.8 million employees. They found that no matter how far they advanced, black men made less than white men with the same qualifications. According to the study, _“black men were the only racial/ethnic group not achieving pay parity with white men at some level."_

But racism is not the problem.

_"Even after completing undergraduate and graduate degrees, black and Hispanic workers earned less than non-Hispanic white workers with the same, or often less, education."_
*- Roy Eduardo Kokoyachuk, ThinkNow Research *

 Kokoyachuck found that blacks and Hispanics with college degrees were paid less than whites and Asians with comparable education. His study showed that blacks and Hispanics who graduated in S.T.E.M majors earned less than whites and Asians with degrees in those same majors. _"Even when Blacks and Hispanics go the extra mile and earn professional degrees, their incomes still don’t break six figures. Whites and Asians, however, double their incomes by earning professional degrees, allowing them to make well over $100,000 a year." _

The National Women’s Law Center also showed that black women are paid less than other women._ Black women are paid 63 cents for every dollar paid to white men based on calculations used in the study._ Where this impacts black single mothers is this study shows a pay difference of over 20,000 dollars per year._ "Black women have to work more than 19 months—until the very last day of July—to make as much as white, non-Hispanic men did in the previous 12-month calendar year."  _Black women in high-wage occupations earn 64 cents for every dollar a white man earns. On average, that is 40,000 dollars per year less than white men in those same occupations.

But racism is not the problem.

At no time from 1959 through 2020 have whites and blacks come close to having equal income. It has not mattered whether America was practicing segregation. It has not mattered that blacks have become better educated. It has not mattered if black households were traditional two parent, two cars, a dog, two children having, good church-going members of American society. We have had two terms of a black president, and still, the median income for blacks has been less than whites. Most certainly, if a black man can manage a nation, he can run a corporation. If a black woman can run the second-largest Department of Justice in America and serve as Vice President, she can manage your local Wal-Mart. Sixty-eight years ago, Brown v. Topeka ended segregation in schools. Fifty-eight years ago, Civil Rights for everyone became law. This situation is not about the failure of “black culture” or so-called liberal handout policies. The root cause of the problems blacks face today is continuing white racism.

So just stop asking dumb ass questions. The cause is racism. This is not debatable.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 1, 2022)

IM2 said:


> You're saying this in all your posts. Racism is the problem. Madame CJ Walker became a millionaire during Jim Crow, so don't talk stupid. Blacks are 13 percent of the population with 2 percent of the wealth. No matter how low poverty is blacks live at double the rate. No matter how low unemployment is, blacks have double the unemployment rate. Black median income has always been lower than whites regardless of education. Blacks get paid less than whites even when their education and experience are the same. None of this is because people are having babies you, not graduating high school or whatever else whitey wants to define for us as the problem.
> 
> You can't tell me shit white boy. I am telling you that the root cause of this problem is white racism and unlike you, I have the economic data that supports my opinion. The problem we have are due to decisions made by whites in power. You're an ignorant uneducated white man who tried to argue about an economic matter using birth rates and incarceration rates. And all your arguments refuse to factor in white racism which is a reality we face whether your white ass likes hearing it or not. So shut up being white trying to tell me how things are for blacks.



You have zero evidence that racism is responsible for any of the things you listed.  Zero.  I presented evidence on the possible reasons you hold those statistics such as doing poorly in school compared to people of other races, having children out of wedlock at twice the rate of whites, a third of all black adult males having a felony which precludes them from obtaining better paying work.  Those are real statistics and you refuse to even acknowledge them.  All you have is blacks do worse in employment, income and wealth so "it must be" racism.  Forget all the other factors that are known to cause these things.


----------



## Lisa558 (May 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You have zero evidence that racism is responsible for any of the things you listed.  Zero.  I presented evidence on the possible reasons you hold those statistics such as doing poorly in school compared to people of other races, having children out of wedlock at twice the rate of whites, a third of all black adult males having a felony which precludes them from obtaining better paying work.  Those are real statistics and you refuse to even acknowledge them.  All you have is blacks do worse in employment, income and wealth so "it must be" racism.  Forget all the other factors that are known to cause these things.


Actually, he hit upon the answer to the question I’ve been asking for days now, and to which none of these “blame racism!” leftists will respond:

*If racism is why 20% or so are blacks remain in poverty, then how do you explain why 80% or so of blacks are NOT in poverty?”*

The leftist upthread inadvertently answered it: because they work hard. So in other words, it’s not racism that is keeping the subset of blacks poor, it’s because they have chosen not to work (or to work hard). While I don’t think that’s it exactly - the real reasons are the babies and lack of schooling - but the underlying message is the same: the blacks making the right choice and doing the same thing move out of poverty.


----------



## Lisa558 (May 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You have zero evidence that racism is responsible for any of the things you listed.  Zero.  I presented evidence on the possible reasons you hold those statistics such as doing poorly in school compared to people of other races, having children out of wedlock at twice the rate of whites, a third of all black adult males having a felony which precludes them from obtaining better paying work.  Those are real statistics and you refuse to even acknowledge them.  All you have is blacks do worse in employment, income and wealth so "it must be" racism.  Forget all the other factors that are known to cause these things.


Also, the harm in this thinking is that in removes any responsibility from blacks to do the correct thing to move beyond poverty, and that the only determination of whether racism is “over” is when blacks have the same net income and education as whites.

The problem is that there then is no effort or motivation for blacks themselves to correct the behavior that is correlated so closely with poverty. As long as blacks keep giving birth to the majority of children out of wedlock, they will never catch up to whites, on average.


----------



## IM2 (May 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> What does being angry get you? I've had a lot of shitty things happen to me in my life, and frankly, I'm still angry about some of them. Angry doesn't solve the problem. Being angry at people who didn't cause the problem is part of it.


It got blacks voting rights and civil rights. Anger channeled constructively can be used positively. Don't think for one second that Dr. King was not as pissed off as Malcolm X. Both men expressed their anger differently. We have the right to be angry and we have faced more than the normal "shitty things just happen to people" stuff.



JoeB131 said:


> Ray doesn't want to talk to me right now, but I get some of his anger. He worked all his life to buy his property, which isn't worth the money he paid for it because his neighborhood has changed due to the Government dumping a bunch of Section 8 people into it. Because he didn't gain other skills, when the government told him he could no longer drive a truck, he was stuck going on disability. He is like a lot of white people in this country- they see themselves not having the affluence their parents had, and getting blamed for stuff they really had no hand in.



The government are not the landlords who don't keep up property or let vacant properties sit while writing depreciation off on their taxes. 15 years ago, I worked in a hood with a church-created CDC and they tried to buy some community eyesores from white owners who lived in the suburbs. In one case an owner was asking for 60,000 dollars for a building that had no roof, all the windows were gone, the inside was rubble and the only thing that could be done to that building was tear it down. We offered to get an appraiser and we would pay the appraised value. He didn't want to do that because he knew that the building would not be appraised at anywhere near 60,000. Over the years I have driven by that area and the eyesore still stands. And that eyesore, owned by a white man in the suburbs is reducing the property value in that community. So fuck Ray.

Ray is a racist, he is being blamed for continuing the problem. This is what many whites don't seem to get.  



JoeB131 said:


> Most white people who watched the George Floyd tape were upset. They completely agreed with you that what Chauvin did was completely out of line. They even agreed that this was the time for substantial police reform.
> 
> But then it got carried too far. The riots dragged on for months. Property was destroyed. Crime rates spiked, partially because the police were overwhelmed, partially because no one wanted to be the next Chauvin. And look how close Trump came to winning a second term, despite all his failures?



And most white people didn't notice that almost 95 percent of the protests had no violence or damage. Many that did, the damage was done by whites. Police were not overwhelmed because they were still shooting and killing unarmed blacks. Trump was soundly defeated.

The question is not what black peoples goals are. The question is when will whites decide to take the responsibility they have to fix the damage created by the continuing racism that some still today are inflicting on communities of color instead of pretending racism doesn't exist now and that they are being blamed for stuff they did not do?


----------



## IM2 (May 1, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Actually, he hit upon the answer to the question I’ve been asking for days now, and to which none of these “blame racism!” leftists will respond:
> 
> *If racism is why 20% or so are blacks remain in poverty, then how do you explain why 80% or so of blacks are NOT in poverty?”*
> 
> The leftist upthread inadvertently answered it: because they work hard. So in other words, it’s not racism that is keeping the subset of blacks poor, it’s because they have chosen not to work (or to work hard). While I don’t think that’s it exactly - the real reasons are the babies and lack of schooling - but the underlying message is the same: the blacks making the right choice and doing the same thing move out of poverty.


Bitch, the problem is racism. Joe isn't black, but you don't want to face the truth. Babies and lack of schooling ain't it.


----------



## IM2 (May 1, 2022)

Westender said:


> Here's some evidence for you, the most heinous crime there is. An eighth of the population commits 55.9% of the murders. Tell me how that won't drop your property values.
> 
> "According to the FBI, African-Americans accounted for 55.9% of all homicide offenders in 2019, with whites 41.1%, and "Other" 3.0% in cases where the race was known. Among homicide victims in 2019 where the race was known, *54.7%* were black or African-American, 42.3% were white, and 3.1% were of other races."
> 
> ...


Try not using wikipedia then recognize there are 30 categories of crime and in 2020 whites led in 28. Murder amounted to a small amount of overall crime. Whites committed more rapes than blacks did murder.. The same goes for assault and battery


----------



## IM2 (May 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Ah, so more excuses.  Red lining is not why stores close down.  They close down when theft makes it impossible to create profit.  The Walton's don't need banks to open up new stores.
> 
> Whites don't determine property value, the banks do.  That determination is made based on what people are willing to pay to live in a certain area, and nobody wants to live around blacks; not because of racism, but because of crime, noise, filth, and bad upkeep of property.
> 
> ...


Ray, I don't make excuses. While you were driving trucks, I was working in the black community on issues. You don't know what the hell you're talking about. Ray, please shut up before you embarrass yourself more.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 1, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Actually, he hit upon the answer to the question I’ve been asking for days now, and to which none of these “blame racism!” leftists will respond:
> 
> *If racism is why 20% or so are blacks remain in poverty, then how do you explain why 80% or so of blacks are NOT in poverty?”*
> 
> The leftist upthread inadvertently answered it: because they work hard. So in other words, it’s not racism that is keeping the subset of blacks poor, it’s because they have chosen not to work (or to work hard). While I don’t think that’s it exactly - the real reasons are the babies and lack of schooling - but the underlying message is the same: the blacks making the right choice and doing the same thing move out of poverty.



This kinda reminds me of our discussions about Voter-ID.  My adversaries were claiming that a lot of these people had no ability to get an ID, especially those of race.  They couldn't afford them, had no way to get to the places that issued ID's, a lot of blacks don''t drive, especially older blacks, just one thing after another. 

I told them that if you told any one of these people there is a $1,000 check waiting for them at the other end of the state, and all they had to do is get there and present an acceptable form of ID to claim it, they would be there in less than 24 hours.  

Same thing applies here.  If you told any one of these people that blame racism for their failures, that we taxpayers will pay them $50,000 to overcome this racism, find a decent job, and stay away from dope, every one of them would be collecting that 50K within six months.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 1, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Try not using wikipedia then recognize there are 30 categories of crime and in 2020 whites led in 28. Murder amounted to a small amount of overall crime. Whites committed more rapes than blacks did murder.. The same goes for assault and battery



You continue with your stupid statements.  One more time:  WHITES ARE FIVE TIMES THE SIZE OF YOUR POPULATION.  There is no possible way whites would have less in every category simply because of our size differences.  Per capita however, blacks lead in the most crime in the US.  

Homicide​
_According to the FBI, African-Americans accounted for 55.9% of all homicide offenders in 2019, with whites 41.1%, and "Other" 3.0% in cases where the race was known.[52] Among homicide victims in 2019 where the race was known, 54.7% were black or African-American, 42.3% were white, and 3.1% were of other races.[53][54] The per-capita offending rate for African-Americans was roughly eight times higher than that of whites, and their victim rate was similar._






						Race and crime in the United States - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Eight times higher.  So you want to stick with your stupid statement that whites are the biggest offenders?


----------



## IM2 (May 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You have zero evidence that racism is responsible for any of the things you listed.  Zero.  I presented evidence on the possible reasons you hold those statistics such as doing poorly in school compared to people of other races, having children out of wedlock at twice the rate of whites, a third of all black adult males having a felony which precludes them from obtaining better paying work.  Those are real statistics and you refuse to even acknowledge them.  All you have is blacks do worse in employment, income and wealth so "it must be" racism.  Forget all the other factors that are known to cause these things.


No Ray, I have shown conclusive evidence. You picked stats that validate your bias. You talk about having babies out of wedlock,  but passed over this information I presented earlier.

In 2017, Demos published a study titled, _“The Asset Value of Whiteness: Understanding the Racial Wealth Gap.” _On page 10 this statement is written: 

*"The median white single parent has 2.2 times more wealth than the median black two-parent household and 1.9 times more wealth than the median Latino two-parent household."*

You talk about incarceration but don't talk about racism in the justice system. And you ignored this bit of information you were shown earlier.

Having a criminal record negatively affects the likelihood of being considered for a job. Devah Pager conducted a matched-pair experiment in which she had male testers apply for the same entry-level jobs advertised in Milwaukee newspapers. She gave the assistants fake credentials that make them equivalent in terms of education, job experience, and so on. Half were Black and half White.

One tester from each pair was instructed to indicate that they had a past non-violent drug possession offense. Pager then collected data on how many of the applicants were called back for an interview after submitting their fake applications.

The results indicate that getting a job with a criminal record is difficult. Having even a non-violent drug offense had a significant impact on rates of callbacks:

*What was surprising was that race actually turned out to be more significant than a criminal background. Notice that employers were more likely to call Whites with a criminal record (17% were offered an interview) than Blacks without a criminal record (14%).*







						Race, Criminal Background, and Employment - Sociological Images
					

The Society Pages (TSP) is an open-access social science project headquartered in the Department of Sociology at the University of Minnesota




					thesocietypages.org
				




*THE ROOT CAUSE OF THE PROBLEMS BLACKS FACE IS WHITE RACISM.*


----------



## IM2 (May 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You continue with your stupid statements.  One more time:  WHITES ARE FIVE TIMES THE SIZE OF YOUR POPULATION.  There is no possible way whites would have less in every category simply because of our size differences.  Per capita however, blacks lead in the most crime in the US.
> 
> Homicide​
> _According to the FBI, African-Americans accounted for 55.9% of all homicide offenders in 2019, with whites 41.1%, and "Other" 3.0% in cases where the race was known.[52] Among homicide victims in 2019 where the race was known, 54.7% were black or African-American, 42.3% were white, and 3.1% were of other races.[53][54] The per-capita offending rate for African-Americans was roughly eight times higher than that of whites, and their victim rate was similar._
> ...


Ray that is a weak ass excuse. Whites commit more crimes. Fuck per capita, crimes don't happen that way.

The argument coming from the right is that since blacks are 13 percent of the population, blacks should be committing 13 percent of the crime. The problem with this claim is that percentages come attached with real numbers, and when you use those real numbers, the 13 percent excuse has no merit as an argument. In 2020, whites made up 51 percent of all criminal offenders. 

According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report Crime data. In 2020, there were 7,173,072, crime offenders in the United States. That 7.1 million is 100 percent of the offenders in America. In 2020 according to the census, the U.S. population was 331,449,281. That number is 100 percent of the U.S. population. Out of 331,449,281 citizens, 7,173,072 people or 2.16 percent of the American population were criminal offenders. *The 3,642,932 white offenders were 1.09 percent of the American population. The 2,122,038 black offenders were 0.006 percent of the American population. *This is where the 13 percent excuse fails. Simple math shows the misuse of percentages. The 13 percent excuse uses the percentage of blacks committing a crime against the percentage of the black population instead of it being used to reflect the percentage of blacks committing a specific violation. The numbers here show that 13 percent of the American people are not committing 50 percent of the crime. Furthermore, they show that 1 percent of the population is 51 percent of the criminal offenders and they are not black.

In 2020 blacks led in arrests in 2 categories in the Uniform Crime Report, murder and robbery. I am not going to pretend this is a good thing, but let’s look at the arrest categories whites led in:

*Rape, Aggravated assault, Burglary, Larceny-theft, Motor vehicle theft, Arson, Violent crime, Property crime, Other assaults, Forgery and counterfeiting, Fraud, Embezzlement, buying, receiving, and possessing stolen property, Vandalism, carrying, possessing, Weapons, Prostitution and commercialized vice, Sex offenses besides rape and prostitution, Drug abuse violations, Gambling, Offenses against the family and children, Driving under the influence, Liquor laws, Drunkenness, Disorderly conduct, Vagrancy, All other offenses (except traffic), Suspicion, Curfew and loitering law violations.*

I used the Official FBI Uniform Crime Report. Now just face the facts and be quiet Ray.


----------



## JoeB131 (May 1, 2022)

IM2 said:


> he government are not the landlords who don't keep up property or let vacant properties sit while writing depreciation off on their taxes. 15 years ago, I worked in a hood with a church-created CDC and they tried to buy some community eyesores from white owners who lived in the suburbs. In one case an owner was asking for 60,000 dollars for a building that had no roof, all the windows were gone, the inside was rubble and the only thing that could be done to that building was tear it down. We offered to get an appraiser and we would pay the appraised value. He didn't want to do that because he knew that the building would not be appraised at anywhere near 60,000. Over the years I have driven by that area and the eyesore still stands. And that eyesore, owned by a white man in the suburbs is reducing the property value in that community. So fuck Ray.



It sounds to me like the solution to that would be to appeal to the zoning board and have that building condemned.  

I do see the other end of it, though.  Condo complex I recently moved out of has 30 or so section 8 families out of 256 units.   Essentially, some investors picked up the properties when the prices bottomed out in the 2008 crash, and they rent them out to some people who are crowding five people into a one bedroom apartment.  The Condo board tried to pass a limit on occupancy, and they threatened to sue.   Last year, the ownership voted overwealmingly to take a buy out from an investor, and guess who is suing in court to block the sale?  Yup.  The same investors who don't live on the property. 

We were seeing the local PD out there about once a week, usually breaking up a domestic.  

NOw, this isn't a racial thing, because some of the offending idiots were white, Hispanic, one was even south Asian, where the cops were coming out once a week, and then we had a bad smell coming out of the apartment we thought was decomp.   (Fortunately, it was only food they left in the fridge before the power was shut off.) 

Section 8 might be a better policy than the high-rise projects... but still have a lot of problems.  



IM2 said:


> And most white people didn't notice that almost 95 percent of the protests had no violence or damage. Many that did, the damage was done by whites. Police were not overwhelmed because they were still shooting and killing unarmed blacks. Trump was soundly defeated.



Trump was hardly "soundly defeated" if it took until Saturday to confirm that Biden won.   And frankly, people have every reason to be concerned about the riots. 

I have another friend of mine, a gay Hispanic woman, who I recently found out voted for Trump in the last election, because she thought that he was better for the economy and because some of the things that Democrats said during the election kind of frightened her. (IT doesn't help her current girlfriend is a Republican).  



IM2 said:


> The question is not what black peoples goals are. The question is when will whites decide to take the responsibility they have to fix the damage created by the continuing racism that some still today are inflicting on communities of color instead of pretending racism doesn't exist now and that they are being blamed for stuff they did not do?



I guess the problem is, do you believe in collective guilt? I could argue that my family on my father's side were German immigrants, and my family on my mothers side were poor Missouri dirt farmers.  None of them owned slaves, none of them really benefited from Jim Crow.   

Of course, our history IS full of racial injustices, and we really do need to fix that.   Which is why I support affirmative action, even though I once lost out on an opportunity to someone who was utterly unqualified for the job.  (This woman actually had the nerve to call me at home after my contract ended on how to do an aspect of her job. I politely told her since I was no longer being paid and shouldn't have access to confidential company data, I really couldn't help her.)


----------



## IM2 (May 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> It sounds to me like the solution to that would be to appeal to the zoning board and have that building condemned.
> 
> I do see the other end of it, though.  Condo complex I recently moved out of has 30 or so section 8 families out of 256 units.   Essentially, some investors picked up the properties when the prices bottomed out in the 2008 crash, and they rent them out to some people who are crowding five people into a one bedroom apartment.  The Condo board tried to pass a limit on occupancy, and they threatened to sue.   Last year, the ownership voted overwealmingly to take a buy out from an investor, and guess who is suing in court to block the sale?  Yup.  The same investors who don't live on the property.
> 
> ...


I don't play that collective guilt shit. I have never fathered a child out of wedlock, sold drugs, was a member of a gang, never committed a crime, never have drawn welfare, and am college educated. Yet I have worked in the black community to help reduce those problems. Whites have a collective responsibility to end white racism. 

Your family did benefit from Jim Crow and even if they didn't it does not absolve you from your responsibility to end white racism. The excuses from whites must end.

Section 8 is not the problem. White attitudes are. Whites have the tendency to take a small number of occurrences relative to other races and blow them out of proportion while not wanting to have anyone paint them with a broad brush. Prime example, the obsession with using one category of crime to make claims about black violence. There are a whole lot of blacks living in section 8 housing that do what's right. Furthermore, numerically more whites are on Section 8. So...


----------



## JoeMoma (May 1, 2022)

IM2 said:


> I don't play that collective guilt shit. I have never fathered a child out of wedlock, sold drugs, was a member of a gang, never committed a crime, never have drawn welfare, and am college educated. Yet I have worked in the black community to help reduce those problems. Whites have a collective responsibility to end white racism.


So you followed the "rules" the OP posted about being successful and you are successful.......Interesting!


----------



## AZrailwhale (May 1, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Wow Ray, that's a lot of excuses for someone who claims to have all of the answers.  Here's a scan of my Florida permit:
> View attachment 638802
> 
> If you Google the phone number above it will take you to this page:
> ...


Martin ambushed and attacked Zimmerman. That's clear from what little physical evidence existed.  All the injuries from the fight were on Zimmerman and the only eyewitness saw Martin on top of Zimmerman beating him "MMA style".  Martin had disengaged from Zimmerman and was in no danger.  All he had to do was go to his father's house which as I remember was within a hundred feet of the ambush site and nothing would have happened.  So it was clearly self-defense under the law of every state.


----------



## JoeB131 (May 1, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Your family did benefit from Jim Crow and even if they didn't it does not absolve you from your responsibility to end white racism. The excuses from whites must end.



Okay, let's look at that.  Grandpa Ludwig didn't benefit.  He faced a LOT of hostility when he got off the boat from Germany.  He even seriously considered returning to Germany after getting his US Citizenship.   (Then the Nazis took over, and nope.)  

My Dad served in WWII, worked very hard his entire life as a sheet metal worker before sucumbing to lung cancer at age 56.  I guess if you consider that to be privilege, it doesn't sound like much of one.  

And as stated, I lost at least one opportunity I know of to Affirmative Action, (probably a lot more I don't know about), so not seeing where I am personally benefiting to the point where I have an obligation to do much of anything than to take care of myself.   Of course, I've helped a lot of people of all races through my career, and most of the time it didn't pay off.  



IM2 said:


> Section 8 is not the problem. White attitudes are. Whites have the tendency to take a small number of occurrences relative to other races and blow them out of proportion while not wanting to have anyone paint them with a broad brush. Prime example, the obsession with using one category of crime to make claims about black violence. There are a whole lot of blacks living in section 8 housing that do what's right. Furthermore, numerically more whites are on Section 8. So...



Yes, reality, it's always the one fool that makes everyone else look bad.  

I'm not worried about the person on Section 8 who works a menial job.  I worry about the one who looks to game the system and make no effort to improve themselves. 

This is why I think most assistance programs SHOULD have a work requirement.


----------



## JoeB131 (May 1, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Martin ambushed and attacked Zimmerman. That's clear from what little physical evidence existed. All the injuries from the fight were on Zimmerman and the only eyewitness saw Martin on top of Zimmerman beating him "MMA style". Martin had disengaged from Zimmerman and was in no danger. All he had to do was go to his father's house which as I remember was within a hundred feet of the ambush site and nothing would have happened. So it was clearly self-defense under the law of every state.



Then those laws are fucked up.   Shooting a child because he is kicking your ass is not "justified".


----------



## AZrailwhale (May 1, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Are the
> 
> Irish people Negro or people of African descent - NO they are not
> Italians Negro or people of African descent - NO they are not
> ...


You might notice that the first is dated 1929 and the second is dated 1933.  All of your excuses come from long ago and before the various equal rights laws were passed.  Nothing in law or societal attitudes today prevents a Black American from being as successful as any other American.


----------



## JoeMoma (May 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Then those laws are fucked up.   Shooting a child because he is kicking your ass is not "justified".


If the "child" is kicking your ass, then he has the ability to kill your ass.


----------



## AZrailwhale (May 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> okay, that part where I just kind of stuck up for Ray... boy, he makes it hard.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The biggest problem was that the city governments still spent money like they had the tax base when the automakers were a captive audience.  So they ran their own cities into the ground and anyone with sense and the means to do so left for better managed cities.  California and NYC are undergoing the same process today.


----------



## Lisa558 (May 1, 2022)

JoeMoma said:


> So you followed the "rules" the OP posted about being successful and you are successful.......Interesting!


Exactly!

Paraphrasing the debate, it goes like this…..

*White Conservative*: Racism isn’t why a percentage of blacks remain in poverty. It’s because they’re making the wrong choices - having babies out of wedlock and not completing their education. Same as white people in poverty.

*Black Leftist: *That’s not true, you evil white supremacist! Look at all these examples of racism from the last century.

*White conservative: *That’s from long ago. Right now, blacks can be (and most are) successful because they make the right choices - delaying childbearing until marriage and getting an education.

*Black leftist: *You racist! I am a successful black man! I didn‘t father any children out of wedlock, got a college education, and worked hard.

*White conservative: *And you just made my point. Thank you!


----------



## AZrailwhale (May 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Or, maybe black people watch the Jews, the Germans, the Irish, The Italians all jump in line ahead of them, and then they see the Asians and the Hispanics jump in line ahead of them, too.


They don't "jump in line ahead of them" they climbed the ladder faster.  We all get it that blacks in the deep south had it bad up until the sixties.  But many Blacks moved North and West and did quite well for themselves.  Others moved and didn't do as well.  There were, are and always will be bigots in all races and religions.  A smart person doesn't allow a bigot to define them but achieves to spite the bigot.


----------



## Indeependent (May 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Then those laws are fucked up.   Shooting a child because he is kicking your ass is not "justified".


Until someone is bashing *your* head into the cement.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 1, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Martin ambushed and attacked Zimmerman. That's clear from what little physical evidence existed.  All the injuries from the fight were on Zimmerman and the only eyewitness saw Martin on top of Zimmerman beating him "MMA style".  Martin had disengaged from Zimmerman and was in no danger.  All he had to do was go to his father's house which as I remember was within a hundred feet of the ambush site and nothing would have happened.  So it was clearly self-defense under the law of every state.



Not only was he beating Zimmerman, he pinned his shoulders down with his knees so he coudn't get away.  That's not self-defense, that's felonious assault.  The prosecutor that laid murder charges on him should have been fired.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 1, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Section 8 is not the problem. White attitudes are. Whites have the tendency to take a small number of occurrences relative to other races and blow them out of proportion while not wanting to have anyone paint them with a broad brush. Prime example, the obsession with using one category of crime to make claims about black violence. There are a whole lot of blacks living in section 8 housing that do what's right. Furthermore, numerically more whites are on Section 8. So...



I've had about five different section 8 people living next door to me, and every single one was a problem.  The last ones the husband shot at his wife through a kitchen window at 4:30 in the morning on a work night.  Prior to that was the screaming and yelling that took place.  

Yes, they are a problem, and they are destroying neighborhoods all across the country.  Thank goodness it's been empty for about a year. So nice and quiet, people could actually sleep at night.  Now that he fixed up all the damage in one of the units, he's showing it once again.  When he finds renters, I'll be putting the police phone number back in my favorites in my cell phone because I know I'll be using it all the time like I have with the others.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 1, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Ray that is a weak ass excuse. Whites commit more crimes. Fuck per capita, crimes don't happen that way.
> 
> The argument coming from the right is that since blacks are 13 percent of the population, blacks should be committing 13 percent of the crime. The problem with this claim is that percentages come attached with real numbers, and when you use those real numbers, the 13 percent excuse has no merit as an argument. In 2020, whites made up 51 percent of all criminal offenders.
> 
> ...



Your argument is complete stupidity.  You are using our entire population instead of the population of the races themselves.  The majority of our population are whites, therefore it only stands to reason that majority will have more offenders as slight as it may be.  The reason you don't like per capita is because it tells the truth about each race.  You don't like that.  You are completely defenseless in the argument.  

Blacks lead the country in almost every category of crime, and in all categories of violent crime; not by total population, but by their race alone.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 1, 2022)

IM2 said:


> No Ray, I have shown conclusive evidence. You picked stats that validate your bias. You talk about having babies out of wedlock,  but passed over this information I presented earlier.
> 
> In 2017, Demos published a study titled, _“The Asset Value of Whiteness: Understanding the Racial Wealth Gap.” _On page 10 this statement is written:
> 
> ...



Oh, and of course we are to ignore other things such as duration one held past jobs, references from those other jobs, family size and the impact it would have on an employers health benefits that he or she has to pay for. 

I won't rent to felons.  Why?  Because I tried it in the past and it was nothing but a problem, a major problem in one instance.  I had cars pulling into the parking lot, staying for about a minute when the tenant ran out, and they'd dash out of the drive again.  So these were non-violent felons.  Then all kinds of weirdos started to hang around, probably casing the apartments of my other tenants.  When they went back on dope, they stopped paying rent.  I just don't need the headache when I could be renting to law abiding non-criminal tenants.

It's no secret that felons have a much harder time getting a job than people who were never a felon before. 

I also look at the intelligence level of potential tenants.  If they reply to an ad with the writing skills of a 9 year old, I don't respond back I don't care what race they are.  I'm sure employers do the same.  So if somebody is trying to rig a study, all they have to do is fill out the application like a moron and they won't get called back.  It's so easy to do. 

Again, employers do have a favorite color, and that color is green.  The employees that produce the most green for the employer are that employers favorite employees.


----------



## Paul Essien (May 1, 2022)

JoeB131 
*Actually, I'm the first one to admit that I grew up in a racist society,*

But yet you want to claim your brother and Lisa558 and Ray From Cleveland are real racists

JoeB131 
*And have to constantly evaluate my attitudes. It's called self-reflection.*

Yes you evalute your attitude and then you decide that the attitude of being a white supremacist is right. You self reflect only to remember to yourself that being a white supremacist is right.

JoeB131 
*This is something you and Lisa both lack, just from different ends of the spectrum*

There is no difference between you and Lisa558 

As for me being racist - Well if you had 100 snakes coming at you, would stop and try and find the few good snakes from the bad ones ? Or would close the door on the lot of them ?

JoeB131 
*Simple logic,
 One person does something on the spur of the moment. Five people making repeated decisions is a conspiracy. Is this what you are really defending, five people who kidnapped a couple, repeatedly raped them and then murdered them?*

You don't know what was in their mind. You don't know if they had a bad upbringing. You don't know anything. All you are doing is guessing

JoeB131 
*Again, which 10 year old kid are we talking about. Tamir Rice was 12 and I've condemned what the cops did there.*

Condeming without punishing........standard white supremacist practice

JoeB131 
*Oh, let's get real. I was in the army for 11 years... Most of the guys who I served with (regardless of race) weren't there to fight, or to liberate anyone. They were there for the benefits.*

And what has that got to do with what I wrote ?

JoeB131 
*Okay, let's look at that. If America was as racist as you say, then why do Hispanics and especially Asians do so well? Do you think they don't run into bigots? I will be the first one to admit, they haven't had the experience black people have had... slavery, Jim Crow, etc. But they also aren't white, and by your logic, shouldn't do well.*

Because they're not black.

Most white hispanics are classfied as white.





The white supremacists make sure they have BUFFER class of non white supremacists.

They have recruitment drives for them. If four black men were hanging outside home depot looking for jobs white people would call the police in a second but at every home depot in America you have illegal hispanic aliens who aren't even to citizens standing around






Black people have never been allowed to stand around. But this is just in case black people have a baby boom we will be born into a hostile anti black country that is already in place.

In Seattle the Asian already got that lock. Oregon is full of white meth head, no place for blk ppl.
On down to Northern Cali that looks like Louisiana, rural area and Orange farms, no place for blk folk there. Move on over Ohio-Idaho-New Mexico-Nevada-Vegas-Montana-Nebraska, they're gonna send to them to those.

Nazi chic is all the rage over their in Asia.












So Asian are primed and ready to get on board the kiss white ass- white supremacist anti black train.

This is why the white supremacist allow asians to occupy whole business districts like Canal Street in New York






You've never had a China Town that was blown up like the black wall street. Let the white supremacist sabotage Canal Street in New York. See how they get on after that ?

Black ppl in the US have built private communities, banks but we were shut out by law, by decree, by bombing, by goverrment force and violence. Asians have never been through any of that in the US.

Black businesses are the only businesses that get sabotaged












#

That's why whites don't really mind Asians. Asian men can't fk white women. But white men can fk Asian women by the truckload. So there is no sexual threat from Asian men like white men have for black men who can and do fk white women.

That's part of the deal for immigrants. You have to hate on black Americans and most go along with it.

This is a 50 year plan and whites are gonna make many places in the USA full of hostile anti black immigrants who will integrate in the USA because what it means to integrate into the US is that you are willing to hate on black people

This is to be the final solution. That white supremacists are going to drown out the black population with hostile non black people and even hostile African immigrants who are willing to hate on black people.

Joe fox 
*Again, is it because they are white supremacists, or is because you are kind of an asshole? If you come off in person like you come off here, I suspect most people wouldn't want to deal with you. You are the pain in the ass customer every barista and cashier fears.*

Well I'd expect a white supremacist to say that. I mean that's part of the white supremacist code. To always defend the actions of other white supremacists

JoeB131 
*Actually, I would judge the case on the evidence.*

And the evidence would be to send the innocent black man down. To be honest if your not a white supremacist you will get into trouble with other white  people. 

JoeB131 
*In the case of Petersen, the evidence wasn't really there. There was just the emotional aspect that his wife was pregnant and he was stepping out with another woman. That jury didn't convict on evidence, it convicted on emotion. (And frankly, him stepping out on his pregnant wife kind of made him an asshole.)*

I don't know this Peterson. All I know is that if a rich white man goes down ? Then he did it. They let off poor white people for all sorts of crimes. Don't listen to me. Listen to countless stories of white people write about how got off with crimes that a black man never would have


----------



## JoeB131 (May 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Not only was he beating Zimmerman, he pinned his shoulders down with his knees so he coudn't get away. That's not self-defense, that's felonious assault. The prosecutor that laid murder charges on him should have been fired.



Wait, now... he pinned his shoulders to the ground so he couldn't get away, yet Zimmerman was able to pull his gun and shoot him...


----------



## AZrailwhale (May 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Wait, now... he pinned his shoulders to the ground so he couldn't get away, yet Zimmerman was able to pull his gun and shoot him...


Yep, the gun was in a waistband holster.  They demonstrated that the trial and showed what Zimmerman had to do to get to the gun.


----------



## JoeB131 (May 1, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> But yet you want to claim your brother and @Lisa558 and @Ray From Cleveland are real racists



And so are you...  They've justified their racism in their heads, you've justified yours....



Paul Essien said:


> Yes you evalute your attitude and then you decide that the attitude of being a white supremacist is right. You self reflect only to remember to yourself that being a white supremacist is right.



Yawn, tried to engage you sensibly... but you kind of sound like Ray...  



Paul Essien said:


> There is no difference between you and @Lisa558
> 
> As for me being racist - Well if you had 100 snakes coming at you, would stop and try and find the few good snakes from the bad ones ? Or would close the door on the lot of them ?



Funny, Lisa thinks the same way... except she had the authority to close doors.  



Paul Essien said:


> You don't know what was in their mind. You don't know if they had a bad upbringing. You don't know anything. All you are doing is guessing



Yes, when you kidnap and rape and murder two complete strangers, I tend to guess that they had a bad upbringing and they all conspired to do it. 



Paul Essien said:


> Condeming without punishing........standard white supremacist practice



Wasn't my place to punish Officer Loehmann.  A grand jury- which had black people on it - reviewed the evidence and decided not to charge.  Now, I've said I thought that process was wrong.  That the DA went into the Grand Jury acting like a defense lawyer... but other blacks decided not to prosecute and when McGinty was replaced with a black DA, he didn't reopen the case, either. 




Paul Essien said:


> And what has that got to do with what I wrote ?



Everything.  



Paul Essien said:


> Because they're not black.
> 
> Most white hispanics are classfied as white.



I've always felt the "Hispanic" qualification is a bit hazy, as it is based on culture and not race.  Because Latin America never had the Miscegenation laws the US had, the races mixed fairly freely, which is why they are a mixture of European, African and Indigenous American.  




Paul Essien said:


> The white supremacists make sure they have BUFFER class of non white supremacists.
> 
> They have recruitment drives for them. If four black men were hanging outside home depot looking for jobs white people would call the police in a second but at every home depot in America you have illegal hispanic aliens who aren't even to citizens standing around



Or more likely, white people know if they pick up some Hispanic men, the work will get done.  



Paul Essien said:


> Nazi chic is all the rage over their in Asia.



Uh, yeah... not really.  Here's the thing.  The Swastika is considered a symbol of good luck in Asia.  Also, the Japanese have a whole bunch of weird subcultures and fads.  They don't have the hostility towards Nazis because WWII isn't really taught in Japanese schools.  The Japanese barely acknowledge the awful shit they did, much less what their ally did. 



Paul Essien said:


> This is why the white supremacist allow asians to occupy whole business districts like Canal Street in New York



Or they just find the businesses to be quaint...  



Paul Essien said:


> You've never had a China Town that was blown up like the black wall street. Let the white supremacist sabotage Canal Street in New York. See how they get on after that ?
> 
> Black ppl in the US have built private communities, banks but we were shut out by law, by decree, by bombing, by goverrment force and violence. Asians have never been through any of that in the US.



Really?
How about when the Japanese Americans were interned during WWII? 
Or when we engaged in a genocidal war in the Philippines?
Or when we passed a Chinese Exclusion act after bringing Chinese men over here to build the railroads, and then excluded their families? 



Paul Essien said:


> That's why whites don't really mind Asians. Asian men can't fk white women. But white men can fk Asian women by the truckload. So there is no sexual threat from Asian men like white men have for black men who can and do fk white women.
> 
> That's part of the deal for immigrants. You have to hate on black Americans and most go along with it.
> 
> ...



I've known a lot of white chicks who date Asian dudes...  but you might have a point, that there is a fetishism towards Asian women by white men.  I personally think this is because white women have become kind of a pain due to feminism and they find Asian women more compliant.  

So let me get this straight..White people hate you. Asian people hate you. Hispanic people are really white and hate you. Black people immigrating from the Caribbean and Africa hate you.   Black people like Thomas Sowell are sellouts...  Did I miss anything.  

The whole world is out to get Paul.... they have a word for that.  Paranoid. 



Paul Essien said:


> Well I'd expect a white supremacist to say that. I mean that's part of the white supremacist code. To always defend the actions of other white supremacists



Generally, I don't know what any store keeper said to you, but given the attitude you express here, 



Paul Essien said:


> And the evidence would be to send the innocent black man down. To be honest if your not a white supremacist you will get into trouble with other white people.



I'm in trouble with other white people all the time... it just doesn't bother me that much.  This is why my bro and I aren't on speaking terms.  The evidence told me his buddy did it.  He feels his buddy was railroaded. 



Paul Essien said:


> I don't know this Peterson. All I know is that if a rich white man goes down ? Then he did it. They let off poor white people for all sorts of crimes. Don't listen to me. Listen to countless stories of white people write about how got off with crimes that a black man never would have



Except black people get away with crimes all the time.  Often because other black people won't report it.  

Recently, we had a shootout in Chicago, 









						Prosecutors reject charges against 5 suspects in deadly gang-related gunfight in Austin: ‘It’s just like the Wild West’
					

The suspects are members of two warring factions of the Four Corner Hustlers street gang who allegedly shot it out Friday morning in the 1200 block of North Mason Avenue, where more than 70 shell casings were found.




					chicago.suntimes.com
				




Left one person dead, two wounded, and prosecutors declined to prosecute because no one knew who fired the first shot. 

Hey, have they solved Biggie and Tupac's murders yet?


----------



## IM2 (May 1, 2022)

JoeMoma said:


> So you followed the "rules" the OP posted about being successful and you are successful.......Interesting!


Every step of the way I faced white racism. OK? That's something no one should have to endure. The reason for black poverty are not the things some white racist female says. There are millions like me who did the same and live in poverty. You guys have been shown information that shows what you believe is crap, but you cling to the lie.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The only reason we bring up our family and history is to demonstrate how what happened to our parents or grandparents have nothing to do with our lives today.  You bring up your past to excuse your failures.  Big difference.  You have never seen me or any white member here say that they are victims based on what happened to their ancestors.
> 
> You want to talk about resentment some whites have?  I'll be glad to talk about it.  So first question: do you think this resentment comes from skin color?  A simple yes or no answer will suffice.  Do you think this resentment would exist if most blacks were renown for keeping their neighborhood clean and safe, supportive of our police, renown for being law abiding citizens, hell bent against theft and violence, keeping up the academic standards of our schools, being quiet and coy people?
> 
> ...


So now we're getting to the truth.

I guess you didn't read the part in the Compton article which stated that property values going down was due to the _*perceptions *_that whites had not due to any actual material facts, and the perceptions that they *perpetuated* that black people moving in was an indicator that the property values were going to go down.  The article also mentioned that the black people in the mixed neighborhoods tended to keep their properties/gardens in better condition than the white residents and they stated that actual records from the agencies that tracks the mortgages I guess indicated that black people defaulted on their mortgages a lot less than the white people who were all in a panic about the blacks moving into their white neighborhood did.



I was not objecting to you all discussing your families, only to the double standard that you have when I bring up mine.


Lisa558 said:


> And YOU keep saying the same thing over and over, calling me a racist, and asking the same question about why I don’t “lecture” the poor whites in Appalachia. I’ve told you a zillion times that the POINT of this thread is that it isn’t racism that keeps the black subclass poor, but their poor choices - which are the same poor choices as poor whites. The difference is that the whites aren’t blaming racism, and blacks like you are.
> 
> And where did I mock black people? You are so deluded with thinking people who refuse to hold black responsible for their own choices are racist or mocking. With that line of thinking, no blacks are ever responsible for the way they turn out because…..racism.
> 
> ...


Maybe this will clear things up a bit however I'm not going to hold my breath.

You, as a white woman, chose to post on a public message board an allegedly benign recommendation as to how poor black people can climb out of poverty.  Despite your protestations to the contrary, you singled out black people as the subject of your commentary, correction "poor" black people.  That comment about poor white people [as well] does nothing to negate how your comment came across.

Poor black people are the demographic with the least amount of power in the social-economic hierarchy so your comment went over all well as if your thread had been entitled "The problem with the darkies".

Had you introduced your topic as an invitation to discuss the differences between blacks and whites living in poverty I believe you would have gotten a different response presuming though 1) that you want honest debate and 2) not merely a platform from which to denigrate black people, especially those living in poverty.

When it was pointed out to you that you singling out black people makes you *look *like a racist, instead of self-correcting you doubled-down and shifted into hypermode.  When it was additionally pointed out to you that your premise is faulty because the white supremacist laws that were put in place at the founding of this country undergirds EVERY aspect of the lives of black people in the United States and therefore we don't start from the same place in our upward trajectory, instead of pondering how that could be and what the implications of something of that nature are, you along with the rest of USMB's resident racists went on the attack with the same old tired bullshit regarding black people.  That nothing in our lives is within our control, that racism is just an excuse, we blame everything on racism, we're all failures, blah blah blah, yeah we've heard it all before.

You probably won't live long enough to ever realize the errors of your ways, but you're wrong as are your supporters.  I've been giving you all the benefit of the doubt that you have the ability to expand your minds, do some real research and perhaps understand the perspectives of_* someone black who has lived the things we've explained to you*_* all *instead of you all just having read about them.

I understand what it feel like to not want to read or know about certain things, I get that.  But if you choose to remain willfully ignorant about black people in America and our history that's certainly your choice and your right.  But if you continue to make false statements about us or any of our history then that is a whole different situation because white racists lying on black people and lying about us traditionally has had the potential to cause harm to us.

And for the record, I have never indicated that I am "better" than you.  That would be a very arrogant statement for anyone to make.  On the other hand, there are a lot of white people who presume they are better than us with no supporting evidence of any sort.  It's particularly amusing when they know little to nothing about their own history, the history of the U.S. and nothing but erroneous beliefs when it comes to black people EXCEPT for the fact that white people at one time in this country had the legal right to dominion over the black race.  I'm sure they long for a return to such times.

I presume there are things that you are more knowledgeable about than myself just as I know there are things I'm more knowledgeable about than you, Ray and Monk.  Part of it is because my dad taught us to seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave, the other part is because it's required as part of my profession.  

What can you concede?


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 1, 2022)

IM2 said:


> The resentment is because of race


And all that it implies.


----------



## IM2 (May 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> And so are you... They've justified their racism in their heads, you've justified yours....



No Joe it's not the same. This doesn't seem to register. Ray and Lisa were taught racist beliefs. Paul has faced racism. All his life. Just like I have. Ray and Lisa believe what they do based on lies. Paul believes what he does because of the way he has seen whites treat him and other blacks. You really have got to start understanding this instead of creating a false equivalence.

Now don't try giving me some easy solution based on your opinion because until you live for years facing racism every day or the threat of it, you do not know how it feels.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> If racism were responsible, no black person today would be able to move forward.


Racism is an impediment.  How much it holds you back depends on a whole lot of factors.

There have always been people who can help a person they want to succeed navigate around the obstacles that racism presents.  But think about it, while being affluent certainly will help you with upward mobility, everyone knows that black people of celebrity status and mega fortunes STILL get harassed by the police, STILL get jammed up and the police called on them by the banks, if they are unrecognized STILL are treated with suspicion in some situations, etc.

UNTIL racism is removed completely, which personally, I don't believe it will be or can be, at least not during my lifetime, the suspicion and possibility that it has contributed to a negative outcome cannot be discounted.  That is a scientific fact, or mathematical if you prefer.

I know you don't _want _to believe that racism has ANYTHING to do with ANY of the problems that black people face, even as we continue our upward climb, but that belief is just not factual.


----------



## IM2 (May 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Really?
> How about when the Japanese Americans were interned during WWII?
> Or when we engaged in a genocidal war in the Philippines?
> Or when we passed a Chinese Exclusion act after bringing Chinese men over here to build the railroads, and then excluded their families?


All those things went on while blacks were under Jim Crow. You need to quit dismissing how blacks feel with things like this. It makes you look racist. Paul is talking about what blacks have experienced. How about trying to discuss that instead of what you're doing?


----------



## AZrailwhale (May 1, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> So now we're getting to the truth.
> 
> I guess you didn't read the part in the Compton article which stated that property values going down was due to the _*perceptions *_that whites had not due to any actual material facts, and the perceptions that they *perpetuated* that black people moving in was an indicator that the property values were going to go down.  The article also mentioned that the black people in the mixed neighborhoods tended to keep their properties/gardens in better condition than the white residents and they stated that actual records from the agencies that tracks the mortgages I guess indicated that black people defaulted on their mortgages a lot less than the white people who were all in a panic about the blacks moving into their white neighborhood did.
> 
> ...


You don’t come out and say you are better than whites.  You say we are worse than you.  Tomato, tomahto.


----------



## AZrailwhale (May 1, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Racism is an impediment.  How much it holds you back depends on a whole lot of factors.
> 
> There have always been people who can help a person they want to succeed navigate around the obstacles that racism presents.  But think about it, while being affluent certainly will help you with upward mobility, everyone knows that black people of celebrity status and mega fortunes STILL get harassed by the police, STILL get jammed up and the police called on them by the banks, if they are unrecognized STILL are treated with suspicion in some situations, etc.
> 
> ...


Racism won’t ever be erased.  All races suffer from racism.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You are the one telling us that race is your crutch


NO, you all are the ones telling us that any reference to racism is NOTHING MORE than a crutch used by black people.  You discount racism entirely as if it doesn't exist.

Just because the laws changed doesn't mean the people's attitudes have changed.  There are lots of people who will tell you "I don't care what law they passed saying I can't text & drive anymore, I'm gonna still do it".  Or drink & drive or whatever, people selectively obey the laws they want to and not the ones they don't agree sometimes.

There is a lot of residual racism left in this country.  

Our country has lived with *LAWFUL* discrimination and racism towards black people for almost 4 times longer than it has lived without.  You all want almost 200 years of damage to be reversed in barely than 58 years.

That's not a reasonable expectation.


----------



## Indeependent (May 1, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> NO, you all are the ones telling us that any reference to racism is NOTHING MORE than a crutch used by black people.  You discount racism entirely as if it doesn't exist.
> 
> Just because the laws changed doesn't mean the people's attitudes have changed.  There are lots of people who will tell you "I don't care what law they passed saying I can't text & drive anymore, I'm gonna still do it".  Or drink & drive or whatever, people selectively obey the laws they want to and not the ones they don't agree sometimes.
> 
> ...


We figure 58 years of welfare checks is enough.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 1, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> You don’t come out and say you are better than whites.  You say we are worse than you.  Tomato, tomahto.


I never said I personally was better than anyone white, or anything to indicate that I believe that the black race is better than the white race.

I was talking about specific individuals here who happen to be white racists.  Some are self-admitted white racists, the others keep saying things to indicate that they are racists yet pitch a hissy fit if you call them one.

Don't let them confuse you.


----------



## MarathonMike (May 1, 2022)

Dekster said:


> If TyroneKwa never applied himself, got booted out of school, joined a gang, did the crimes, etc etc etc, the it is certainly TyroneKwa's fault.  However, when it comes to blacks as a group, it is naive to think that racism/Jim Crow didn't contribute to blacks still being disproportionately poor.  I am currently the owner of income-producing inherited properties that have been in my family for generations with those lovely Jim Crow restrictions in the deeds.


Go look up how old Jim Crow laws are and then come back and tell us why the CURRENT GENERATION of Blacks are still held down by these ancient and defunct laws.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 1, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> NO, you all are the ones telling us that any reference to racism is NOTHING MORE than a crutch used by black people.  You discount racism entirely as if it doesn't exist.
> 
> Just because the laws changed doesn't mean the people's attitudes have changed.  There are lots of people who will tell you "I don't care what law they passed saying I can't text & drive anymore, I'm gonna still do it".  Or drink & drive or whatever, people selectively obey the laws they want to and not the ones they don't agree sometimes.
> 
> ...



Who said anything about reversing it?  What we are saying is that it's not applicable to your situation today nor anybody else of your race.  

Assuming you are not using the word "racism" as defined by any dictionary, and using the word to describe discrimination against black people, I'm sure it happens, but it's very rare these days, and certainly not nearly enough to hold a large percentage of people back, especially when the majority has moved well beyond that.  The "damage" you speak of was not done to you, it was done to people before you ended up on this planet, many of whom you never even met.  

There is a huge difference between going to jail for a DUI, or perhaps a traffic violation for not paying attention to your driving, and risking a huge lawsuit and reputation of your company.  The risk is much greater with the latter which is why it's very rare.


----------



## MarathonMike (May 1, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> I never said I personally was better than anyone white, or anything to indicate that I believe that the black race is better than the white race.
> 
> I was talking about specific individuals here who happen to be white racists.  Some are self-admitted white racists, the others keep saying things to indicate that they are racists yet pitch a hissy fit if you call them one.
> 
> Don't let them confuse you.


You are the one who is confused. There will ALWAYS be individuals who are Racists. There will always be White Racists, Black Racists, Brown Racists etc. Fortunately as the world matures, the majority of individuals becomes less Racist with each generation as is clearly evident by the last 60 years of American history.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 1, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Racism is an impediment.  How much it holds you back depends on a whole lot of factors.
> 
> There have always been people who can help a person they want to succeed navigate around the obstacles that racism presents.  But think about it, while being affluent certainly will help you with upward mobility, everyone knows that black people of celebrity status and mega fortunes STILL get harassed by the police, STILL get jammed up and the police called on them by the banks, if they are unrecognized STILL are treated with suspicion in some situations, etc.
> 
> ...



It's very factual.  I was a child of the 60's and 70's.  I went to school with black people once I left Catholic grade school.  I and my black classmates all had the opportunity to attend college or trade school.  We all had the opportunity to get jobs, especially blacks given the laws that were passed along the way.  I made the conscious decision never to get married or have children. I made real estate investments, played the stock market for a while, spent a couple of years in the commodities market, all things any black person could have done, but most didn't.

In my middle age I decided I wasn't making enough money, my skills not desired enough, so I learned how to drive a tractor-trailer, something any black person could have done and can still do today.  Do you know Walmart is offering drivers salaries into the six figure range?  And no, they will not hold the experience of your ancestors against you.  

Can you name me a bank that ever called police because a black person looked suspicious, or a police officer that pulled over a black person when they had no infraction of the law?  

Urban legends are just that, phony stories.  50 years ago?  Maybe, but not in my lifetime as an adult.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 1, 2022)

Indeependent said:


> We figure 58 years of welfare checks is enough.


Let's see, 243 years that the United States has been in existence.  57 years since the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

That's *186 *years of *LAWFUL RACIAL DISCRIMINATION* against black people versus *57 *years where such *RACIAL DISCRIMINATION *is *UNLAWFUL*.

I see your bullshit claim of *58 *years of "welfare" (you made a mistake, it's not 58 yet) and raise you *186*+ years of reparations.

And you all should give your government welfare checks that you received during COVID back to the government if you're so opposed to "welfare".


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 1, 2022)

MarathonMike said:


> You are the one who is confused. There will ALWAYS be individuals who are Racists. There will always be White Racists, Black Racists, Brown Racists etc. Fortunately as the world matures, the majority of individuals becomes less Racist with each generation as is clearly evident by the last 60 years of American history.


You apparently do not understand the definition of confusion since your comment lent nothing to clarify what you believe I'm confused about.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 1, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> So now we're getting to the truth.
> 
> I guess you didn't read the part in the Compton article which stated that property values going down was due to the _*perceptions *_that whites had not due to any actual material facts, and the perceptions that they *perpetuated* that black people moving in was an indicator that the property values were going to go down. The article also mentioned that the black people in the mixed neighborhoods tended to keep their properties/gardens in better condition than the white residents and they stated that actual records from the agencies that tracks the mortgages I guess indicated that black people defaulted on their mortgages a lot less than the white people who were all in a panic about the blacks moving into their white neighborhood did.



Property values don't go down because of perception, they go down when things change for the negative.  White Flight has been a term used in the past couple of generations.  Are you telling me that blacks cannot maintain property value without whites?  And if so, why not?  

If you go to the horse races and keep laying money on the horse Silver Bells, but Silver Bells always loses the race, how long before you stop laying a bet on that horse?  When people realize blacks are moving in, they naturally expect their neighborhood or city to replicate what happens to just about every other city when blacks move in.  In fear of losing a hell of a lot of money or for the safety of their family, they get the hell away from the blacks.  

If blacks would ever change this trend, that will eliminate white flight.  But don't blame whites for the actions of blacks.  It's disingenuous.  As I stated before, whites can live with just about any other group of people except blacks, and it's not because of their pigmentation either.


----------



## Westender (May 1, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Try not using wikipedia then recognize there are 30 categories of crime and in 2020 whites led in 28. Murder amounted to a small amount of overall crime. Whites committed more rapes than blacks did murder.. The same goes for assault and battery


There's 6 whites to every 1 black.


----------



## IM2 (May 1, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> You don’t come out and say you are better than whites.  You say we are worse than you.  Tomato, tomahto.


Nobody says that. We point to whites who exhibit a certain behavior. That behavior is racism. This means we recognize other whites are better than whites who are racists. You and those here who believe similarly seem to believe that all whites are racists.


----------



## IM2 (May 1, 2022)

Westender said:


> There's 6 whites to every 1 black.


Doesn't matter. You have 5 times everything needed to have zero crime but you commit the most.


----------



## IM2 (May 1, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Property values don't go down because of perception, they go down when things change for the negative.  White Flight has been a term used in the past couple of generations.  Are you telling me that blacks cannot maintain property value without whites?  And if so, why not?
> 
> If you go to the horse races and keep laying money on the horse Silver Bells, but Silver Bells always loses the race, how long before you stop laying a bet on that horse?  When people realize blacks are moving in, they naturally expect their neighborhood or city to replicate what happens to just about every other city when blacks move in.  In fear of losing a hell of a lot of money or for the safety of their family, they get the hell away from the blacks.
> 
> If blacks would ever change this trend, that will eliminate white flight.  But don't blame whites for the actions of blacks.  It's disingenuous.  As I stated before, whites can live with just about any other group of people except blacks, and it's not because of their pigmentation either.


Ray you keep repeating the same ignorant argument. The majority of the lawmakers in this country are white and public policy made by whites is the main problem. The claim of property values decreasing because of blacks is racist fake news. There are affluent black neighborhoods in Cleveland son and poor white ones. I live in Kansas and if I drive down any highway in this state, I see dead all white rural towns that look worse that the so called black slums you have created in your mind. And nobody is rushing to live in them. Property values are low and declining. It ain't because blacks are moving in. Boy, you're as ignorant as it gets.


----------



## MarathonMike (May 1, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> You apparently do not understand the definition of confusion since your comment lent nothing to clarify what you believe I'm confused about.


The bottom line is that you, IM2, Paul and the rest spend your day pointing your finger at everyone screaming RACIST!! That is a complete waste of time and accomplishes exactly nothing. Individuals who are Racist have no bearing on anyone's life but their own.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 1, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I don’t know where to start with all your bullshit.
> 
> 1) Saying that racism is not to blame for the minority of blacks being in poverty - but their own choices, just as it is with whites - is not denigrating them. It’s pointing out that racism isn’t the cause.
> 
> ...





Lisa558 said:


> Wow. More sanctimony from the woman who goes around accusing others of feeling superior.
> 
> YOU are telling Ray why he believes what he believes? Do you even hear the air of superiority that you reveal with that comment?


Lisa, if you are unable to read one or more statements and then draw a correct conclusion, while I am, then perhaps my critical thinking skills ARE superior to yours.  However being more proficient in a particular area doesn't make me a better person than you, but it does make me better equipped to deal with bullshit arguments.

Let's say the following is a class assignment:

Ray from Cleveland BELIEVES that George Zimmerman acted lawfully when he killed Trayvon Martin.

The State of Florida has ruled that George Zimmerman acted lawfully when he killed Trayvon Martin.

Newsvine_Mariyam states that Ray from Cleveland BELIEVES George Zimmerman acted lawfully when he killed Trayvon Martin BECAUSE the State of Florida ruled that Zimmerman acted lawfully.

Newvine_Mariyam states further than Ray's beliefs are reinforced by other previous court cases in which black men have been killed by whites absent an imminent threat of grievous bodily injury or death, such as when the person shot is shot in the back while attempting to flee, as one example.

Did they not teach you deductive reasoning in class or did you not attend college?  I'm not telling Ray what he believes, he told ME what he believes and I was pointing out that he's confident in his beliefs because they are back by rulings in our justice system which traditionally have been unfavorable to black people, black men especially.


----------



## AZrailwhale (May 1, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Lisa, if you are unable to read one or more statements and then draw a correct conclusion, while I am, then perhaps my critical thinking skills ARE superior to yours.  However being more proficient in a particular area doesn't make me a better person than you, but it does make me better equipped to deal with bullshit arguments.
> 
> Let's say the following is a class assignment:
> 
> ...


No you are deciding what Ray is thinking with no evidence at all.  An objective person looking at the evidence and the testimony of the sole independant witness could only conclude self-defense.  You are allowing your personal prejudices to affect your deductive reasoning.  Previous court decisions had nothing to do with either the verdict, or Martin's actions that night.  Martin had broken contact with Zimmerman.  An average person would have gone to a safe place (in this case the father's home) and called 911 if he or she was being followed and in fear of harm.  No reasonable person would hide and ambush a person they were afraid of when reasonable alternatives were available.  The jury was never exposed to Martin's criminal history and the media deliberately played down his criminality and portrayed Martin as a innocent child murdered by an aggressive, racist adult.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 1, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Exactly. But Vine is so angry (oops….not allowed to described a black person as angry, she tells me) at whites who point out that blacks can and do rise from poverty due to their own choices that she can’t decipher the difference between us talking about our poor family backgrounds and her talking about her family background.
> 
> And my family background runs more parallel to what we are talking about in this thread: impoverished, persecuted grandparents who suffered  horrible the bigotry against their people, and yet all their kids still managed to graduate from college. How so? Because they knew THEY and they alone were responsible for how their lives turned out, and they made the right choices.
> 
> And if I might circle back to upbringing, since Vine in her superior wisdom saw fit to criticize MINE - people who are brought up well have learned that you don’t blame other people for your own mistakes,


And which mistakes have I made Lisa?


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 2, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> You might notice that the first is dated 1929 and the second is dated 1933.  All of your excuses come from long ago and before the various equal rights laws were passed.  *Nothing in law or societal attitudes today prevents a Black American from being as successful as any other American.*


Well you're wrong about the attitudes especially since a change in law doesn't guarantee a change in attitude or adherence to the new laws.  There is still a lot of residual racism left over and I personally think it's a wonderful idea that the people below are removing the covenants from existing deeds yet preserving the deeds as originally written to show the history of this particular form of racism:


> Law that keeps racist covenants in separate public record helps preserve history, top state court says​By Debra Cassens Weiss​April 4, 2022, 10:29 am CDT​
> 
> _Image from Shutterstock._​​The Washington Supreme Court has said a new state law strikes a balance between removing racial covenants from a home’s title while keeping them part of the public record.​​The state supreme court said in a March 31 opinion the new law applies to the case of homeowner Alex May, who sought to remove a racially restrictive covenant on his deed and eliminate the restriction from the public record. The law was enacted after an appeals court ruled in May’s case that a court order striking the covenant should be included in the property record, but there is no need to alter existing records.​​The new law allows homeowners to get a court order to remove illegal covenants from chains of title. A homeowner takes the corrected document to county recording officials, who place it in the public records with a notation that the original document was corrected. County officials then update the indexes of each original document referenced in the court order, adding a note the original document is no longer the primary official record.​​The old document is then maintained separately by the county.​​Washington is one of the first states to adopt a statute requiring this process, according to Vicky Dalton, the Spokane County, Washington, auditor, who spoke with the Spokesman-Review.​​“This is really exciting because this is the case that’s going to help us test all those steps out,” Dalton said.​​The restrictive covenant on May’s deed said: “No race or nationality other than the white race shall use or occupy any building on any lot, except that this covenant shall not prevent occupancy by domestic servants of a different race or nationality employed by an owner or tenant.”​​The Washington Supreme Court noted that in 1948, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in _Shelley v. Kraemer_ that racially restrictive covenants are unenforceable but not illegal. The Fair Housing Act of 1968 made racially restrictive covenants illegal.​


Law that keeps racist covenants in separate public record helps preserve history, top state court says


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 2, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Lisa, if you are unable to read one or more statements and then draw a correct conclusion, while I am, then perhaps my critical thinking skills ARE superior to yours.  However being more proficient in a particular area doesn't make me a better person than you, but it does make me better equipped to deal with bullshit arguments.
> 
> Let's say the following is a class assignment:
> 
> ...



It has nothing to do with what I believe.  What I stated was law.  I even provided the context of that law with a Florida state link.  

Zimmerman is a minority himself.  He's half white and half Hispanic.  Of course the media can't get people to protest and riot over that.  it's why their original reporting and follow ups were that Zimmerman was a white male.  

It has nothing to do with past cases either or the race of those involved.  It has to do with laws passed by the state legislature, again....which I posted to support my position.  

Self defense is not a belief.  You were either defending yourself or you weren't.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 2, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> They don't "jump in line ahead of them" they climbed the ladder faster.  We all get it that blacks in the deep south had it bad up until the sixties.  But many Blacks moved North and West and did quite well for themselves.  Others moved and didn't do as well.  There were, are and always will be bigots in all races and religions.  A smart person doesn't allow a bigot to define them but achieves to spite the bigot.


Your opinion is not based in reality.  How would you like to be a highly decorated officer risking your life fighting in WWII and have the German POWs treated better than you because they are white and you are black?  That's just one example but it's a pretty glaring one.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I've had about five different section 8 people living next door to me, and every single one was a problem.  The last ones the husband shot at his wife through a kitchen window at 4:30 in the morning on a work night.  Prior to that was the screaming and yelling that took place.
> 
> Yes, they are a problem, and they are destroying neighborhoods all across the country.  Thank goodness it's been empty for about a year. So nice and quiet, people could actually sleep at night.  Now that he fixed up all the damage in one of the units, he's showing it once again.  When he finds renters, I'll be putting the police phone number back in my favorites in my cell phone because I know I'll be using it all the time like I have with the others.


Are they all black?  What about the property owner?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 2, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Ray you keep repeating the same ignorant argument. The majority of the lawmakers in this country are white and public policy made by whites is the main problem. The claim of property values decreasing because of blacks is racist fake news. There are affluent black neighborhoods in Cleveland son and poor white ones. I live in Kansas and if I drive down any highway in this state, I see dead all white rural towns that look worse that the so called black slums you have created in your mind. And nobody is rushing to live in them. Property values are low and declining. It ain't because blacks are moving in. Boy, you're as ignorant as it gets.



So what does the race of lawmakers have to do with anything?  Property values always decline when blacks move in.  It's just a fact outside of affluent areas where only educated and civilized blacks can afford.  

So where in Cleveland (which I have lived all of my life) are these affluent black areas at?  I don't seem to know where they are, and I'm a retired local truck driver.  And if there are any, why didn't the head of BLM move into one of them?  Seems to me that Buy Lotsa Mansions did so in totally white areas.  

But I'm always up to the challenge:  Give me the name of any middle-class city where blacks took over that didn't have an increase in crimes, particularly violent crimes.  I'll be glad to look them up and present my findings.  It's supposed to rain all day Tuesday.  If available, I'll even post the history of property values there.  I'm not talking about 5% or 10% blacks, I'm talking about a majority of blacks where the makeup is 50% or more.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 2, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Are they all black?  What about the property owner?



The property owner is from the middle-east.  He buys rental property and charges outrageous prices that nobody would pay outside of Section 8.  They get their vouchers, add money to them from their part-time jobs, and that's how they sneak into the suburbs.  I've had fights with the guy about his tenants.  I even threatened him that if I lose one tenant over his tenants, their noise, their disruption, I'll be suing him in court for my losses.  His eyes lit up like he just met Jesus.  

Yes, his tenants were all black.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Who said anything about reversing it?  What we are saying is that it's not applicable to your situation today nor anybody else of your race.
> 
> Assuming you are not using the word "racism" as defined by any dictionary, and using the word to describe discrimination against black people, I'm sure it happens, but it's very rare these days, and certainly not nearly enough to hold a large percentage of people back, especially when the majority has moved well beyond that.  The "damage" you speak of was not done to you, it was done to people before you ended up on this planet, many of whom you never even met.
> 
> There is a huge difference between going to jail for a DUI, or perhaps a traffic violation for not paying attention to your driving, and risking a huge lawsuit and reputation of your company.  The risk is much greater with the latter which is why it's very rare.


Two things:
1.  Are you going to apologize to me for calling me a liar when you said I do not have a Florida concealed carry permit?

2.  Your opinion that racism "is very rare these days" is wrong and I don't know where you're getting your information.  The EEOC has current stats, you don't believe them?  Every state has their own civil rights office and they are in the year 2022, investigating and processing cases with findings of racial and other discrimination.  You don't believe them either?  

Then there is our criminal justice system.  This guy immediately came to mind when I read that you believe racism is rare in our current day and age:



> On May 26, 2017, Jeremy Joseph Christian fatally stabbed two white men and injured a third after he was confronted for shouting racist and anti-Muslim slurs at two black teenagers, Destinee Mangum and Walia Mohamed, on a MAX Light Rail train in Portland, Oregon.[1][2] Two of the victims, Ricky John Best of Happy Valley and Taliesin Myrddin Namkai-Meche of Portland, were killed; the third victim, Micah David-Cole Fletcher, survived serious wounds.​​Christian,* a white supremacist[1] and self-described white nationalist,**[3]* was arrested and indicted soon after the attack on charges of murder, attempted murder, and other crimes,[4][5] including a separate hate-crime assault the day before the fatal attack.[6] In February 2020, following a jury trial, Christian was found guilty on all counts.[2] Christian was sentenced on June 24, 2020, to two life terms.[7]​


----------



## MarathonMike (May 2, 2022)

Well, this thread has been dragged into a rabbit hole so allow me to bring it back. Lisa is 100% correct. Racism, specifically SYSTEMIC racism is not the cause of poverty in Black people. Certainly having a baby before you are financially or emotionally ready is about the worst thing you can do to yourself or your child. And again Lisa is 100% correct that it doesn't matter if your skin is White, Black, Brown or polka dot. Your trip into poverty is virtually guaranteed.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 2, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Can you name me a bank that ever called police because a black person looked suspicious, or a police officer that pulled over a black person when they had no infraction of the law?


Maybe the problem is because you're not black you're not aware of the things that happen to black people, sort of the equivalence to living in la la land.

This happens on a regular basis:
Arizona Bank Calls Police on Black Man Trying to Cash Check Received From Boat Sale
This one had guns drawn on him
https://www.usnews.com/news/enterta...-director-mistaken-for-bank-robber-in-atlanta

And urban legends?  Really?  A public records request can be used to verify police activity and what's reported in the story.


----------



## JoeB131 (May 2, 2022)

IM2 said:


> No Joe it's not the same. This doesn't seem to register. Ray and Lisa were taught racist beliefs. Paul has faced racism. All his life. Just like I have. Ray and Lisa believe what they do based on lies. Paul believes what he does because of the way he has seen whites treat him and other blacks. You really have got to start understanding this instead of creating a false equivalence.
> 
> Now don't try giving me some easy solution based on your opinion because until you live for years facing racism every day or the threat of it, you do not know how it feels.



Paul hates white people because of the way SOME white people act.  
Lisa and Ray have black people because of the way SOME black people act.  

I take the sensible position that you should only hate THAT PERSON.

Now, let's talk about one of my biases. I have as strong dislike of organized religion.  Probably a side effect of 12 years of Catholic education.  I have a particular contempt for Mormons.   But I base that on what they actually believe, and how they act, not on who they are.  



IM2 said:


> All those things went on while blacks were under Jim Crow. You need to quit dismissing how blacks feel with things like this. It makes you look racist. Paul is talking about what blacks have experienced. How about trying to discuss that instead of what you're doing?



I don't spend much time worrying about "Feelings".   Funny thing, one of my best friends is a Filipina lady. The Philippines suffered under American colonization for something like 50 years, including the afformentioned war where 200,000 Filipinos were killed by American troops.  Never heard her complain about that once, nor any other Filipino i've gotten to know over the years.   She went from being an immigrant 16 years ago to being a director today.  

Sure, racism is going to be  thing you encounter, and it's wrong and we need to stop it.  But it shouldn't be an excuse.  



IM2 said:


> Ray you keep repeating the same ignorant argument. The majority of the lawmakers in this country are white and public policy made by whites is the main problem. The claim of property values decreasing because of blacks is racist fake news. There are affluent black neighborhoods in Cleveland son and poor white ones. I live in Kansas and if I drive down any highway in this state, I see dead all white rural towns that look worse that the so called black slums you have created in your mind. And nobody is rushing to live in them. Property values are low and declining. It ain't because blacks are moving in. Boy, you're as ignorant as it gets.



But wait, how can that be? If racism is so endemic, how is it there are poor white neighborhoods?   Sounds to me that the problem is economic, not racial.


----------



## Lisa558 (May 2, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> I never said I personally was better than anyone white, or anything to indicate that I believe that the black race is better than the white race.
> 
> I was talking about specific individuals here who happen to be white racists.  Some are self-admitted white racists, the others keep saying things to indicate that they are racists yet pitch a hissy fit if you call them one.
> 
> Don't let them confuse you.


There are no white racists here. Only those who say that blacks who remain in poverty are doing it to themselves via their bad choices - mainly have a child out of wedlock they can’t afford - the same way poor whites do.


----------



## Lisa558 (May 2, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> So now we're getting to the truth.
> 
> I guess you didn't read the part in the Compton article which stated that property values going down was due to the _*perceptions *_that whites had not due to any actual material facts, and the perceptions that they *perpetuated* that black people moving in was an indicator that the property values were going to go down.  The article also mentioned that the black people in the mixed neighborhoods tended to keep their properties/gardens in better condition than the white residents and they stated that actual records from the agencies that tracks the mortgages I guess indicated that black people defaulted on their mortgages a lot less than the white people who were all in a panic about the blacks moving into their white neighborhood did.
> 
> ...


Ah! So you say would have approved if I had opened the thread about the different reasons blacks and whites are poor? Well, DUH. of course you would. That’s YOUR position: that blacks are poor (of the minority who are) because of racism.

Bit that is not why I opened the thread. I opened it to refute the blame that whites are getting because some SOME p blacks are poor. No,  poor blacks are so because they are having children out of wedlock (a 75% illegitimacy rate is shameful) and not completing their schooling as a result.

And your sarcastic comment about “the problem with the darkies” shows that you inject racism into everything. MY point was that, generations after racism has been wiped from the books, it’s not fair to blame whitey for blacks’ poor decisions that result in their poverty.

And IM2, one of the worst racists on this forum, made my point himself. He angrily defended himself as being a successful black man - proudly explaining how he never fathered an out of wedlock child and he went to college. Bam! That’s my point! He made the right choices, and thus he isn’t stuck in poverty.

Until blacks are willing to accept that they are responsible for their own outcomes, and that f’ing when you’re a teen without birth control is almost guaranteed to result in a child you can’t afford, and a life of financial struggle - and that successful blacks TELL them that, rather than make excuses for them - I don’t see how the black poverty rate will go down.


----------



## Lisa558 (May 2, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Racism is an impediment.  How much it holds you back depends on a whole lot of factors.
> 
> There have always been people who can help a person they want to succeed navigate around the obstacles that racism presents.  But think about it, while being affluent certainly will help you with upward mobility, everyone knows that black people of celebrity status and mega fortunes STILL get harassed by the police, STILL get jammed up and the police called on them by the banks, if they are unrecognized STILL are treated with suspicion in some situations, etc.
> 
> ...


Yes. Racism is an impediment. So is antisemitism. But one moves beyond poverty, and amidst bigotry, into outright affluence if smart and motivated enough, by making the right choices. The fact that some blacks are still in poverty, while the majority are NOT, speaks to the poor choices the poor blacks have made….NOT racism.

Just as IM2 said, he is a successful black man because he didn’t father an illegitimate baby and he went to college. Instead of blaming whitey for the fact that some blacks are still poor, he - and you - and ALL successful blacks should be emphasizing and teaching young black children that the way out of poverty is by NOT becoming an unwed teen mother and instead graduating from high school, at a minimum, and going on to get some sort of career or vocational training.

Instead, you’re trying to convince them that their failures are not their fault, but whitey’s. THAT type of message is the real impediment.


----------



## Indeependent (May 2, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Let's see, 243 years that the United States has been in existence.  57 years since the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
> 
> That's *186 *years of *LAWFUL RACIAL DISCRIMINATION* against black people versus *57 *years where such *RACIAL DISCRIMINATION *is *UNLAWFUL*.
> 
> ...


Cry us a river.
I work in 3 Black towns where people are doing quite well because they actually studied instead of hanging out at the bar.


----------



## Lisa558 (May 2, 2022)

MarathonMike said:


> Go look up how old Jim Crow laws are and then come back and tell us why the CURRENT GENERATION of Blacks are still held down by these ancient and defunct laws.


Thank you! That has been my point all alone. Minorities alive today have horrible persecution and bigotry in their history, and some within their living memories. My father remembered his entire life the heartache my grandmother went through when Hitler slaughtered her own mother, and her sister, and her four nieces and nephews who hadn’t even reached their teens - and the terror they went through in the last minutes of their lives.

Yet even under this backdrop of the most Jew-hatred one can imagine, my parents and their siblings ALL graduated from college. And then of course the next generation (mine) is replete with doctors, lawyers, accountants, and more.) And this is throughout the Jewish community - all my parents’ friends also grew up poor, lost relatives to the Holocaust, and still went in to become successful. (My dad’s best friend was the grandson of a man who, at age 15, hid from the Nazis and survived for years in the forest.)

The point is that people do and have risen above the worst of bigotry, and in one generation. For blacks to go back to WWII, and further, with story after story of how racist this country USED to be, and using that as an excuse for why some blacks are still poor today, is merely justifying and excusing poor choices that lead to poverty.


----------



## Lisa558 (May 2, 2022)

Indeependent said:


> Cry us a river.
> I work in 3 Black towns where people are doing quite well because they actually studied instead of hanging out at the bar.


You should see where I live! Blacks are buying McMansions, shopping at expensive designer stores, driving fancy cars, and eating in upscale steakhouses. They are primarily dual-income government employees, but they are also lawyers, VP’s at corporations, etc.

THEY made the right choices.


----------



## Lisa558 (May 2, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Let's see, 243 years that the United States has been in existence.  57 years since the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
> 
> That's *186 *years of *LAWFUL RACIAL DISCRIMINATION* against black people versus *57 *years where such *RACIAL DISCRIMINATION *is *UNLAWFUL*.
> 
> ...


So you think we have to have favoritism toward blacks for the same number of years that there was racism? You want anti-white laws for the next 200 years?

Get real. All that is required is to give favoritism to blacks for ONE generation, and they can reverse the situation. They’ve already had two. If after two generations, the majority of blacks are no longer poor - and many are now upper-middle class or downright wealthy - then the ones who still are poor are so due to their own stupid choices.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 2, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Maybe the problem is because you're not black you're not aware of the things that happen to black people, sort of the equivalence to living in la la land.
> 
> This happens on a regular basis:
> Arizona Bank Calls Police on Black Man Trying to Cash Check Received From Boat Sale
> ...



Oh please!  You post these pathetic stories and claim racism?  Since you only read the headlines and not the story as I did, this is what was reported; your first story:

_The Pinal County Federal Credit Union stated that the bank manager called 911 shortly after running the check. After the bank ran the check through the third-party verification system, it came out inconclusive.

The Pinal County Federal Credit Union told 12 News that the check Brewer handed them had “red flags.” They claimed the check bore an old credit union logo and a routing and account number that didn’t match the check writer’s information._

It had nothing to do with his Fn race you liar.  Second story:

_Movie director Ryan Coogler was briefly handcuffed by Atlanta police after he was mistaken for a robber when he passed a teller a note while trying to withdraw a large amount of cash from his account, police said.

The “Black Panther” director, who is Black, walked into a Bank of America branch Jan. 7 and passed the teller a withdrawal slip with a note written on the back *asking her to “be discreet when handing him the cash,” *according to a police report.

He was trying to withdraw more than $10,000, and *the teller “received an alert notification” on her computer* and quickly alerted her manager that Coogler was trying to rob the bank, the report says. *The bank employee is a Black woman*, the report says._

I don't mind reading links, but if you're going to waste my time posting stories with false claims, I'm just going to ignore them.  In BOTH CASES, the employees were alerted to a potential problem by technology.  WTF did you want the employees to do, ignore the warnings, cash bad checks and lose their jobs because they didn't follow bank protocols because the customers were black?  I mean really......passing a note to a teller saying "be discrete when handing me the cash?"  For crying out loud, in the second story the teller was black herself, or was she just being an Aunt Jemima for doing her job as required by her employer?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 2, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Two things:
> 1.  Are you going to apologize to me for calling me a liar when you said I do not have a Florida concealed carry permit?
> 
> 2.  Your opinion that racism "is very rare these days" is wrong and I don't know where you're getting your information.  The EEOC has current stats, you don't believe them?  Every state has their own civil rights office and they are in the year 2022, investigating and processing cases with findings of racial and other discrimination.  You don't believe them either?
> ...



Why would I apologize for something I said that was 100% correct?  You posted nothing that anybody couldn't find on the internet, as in the Florida CCW license I posted claiming it was mine.  If you have a CCW license, you better contact your state and explain how some instructors are passing out licenses to people that can't pass the test, and anybody that claims carrying a firearm and not being allowed to use it is what they were instructed should get every dime of their money back, and the instructor should lose his license to issue CCW's. You didn't even know the basic laws of using a firearm in public.  That's how I know you are lying.  

Making a complaint is not the same as being found guilty of wrongdoing; anybody can file a complaint whether genuine or phony.  People get pissed off because they didn't get a job and look for ways to get even with the company that didn't hire them.  So again, you proved nothing.


----------



## Lisa558 (May 2, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Two things:
> 1.  Are you going to apologize to me for calling me a liar when you said I do not have a Florida concealed carry permit?


Why should he apologize to you? He said nothing wrong. You on the other hand have been calling me disgusting names.Are you going to apologize to me? After all, you did call me evil and a racist, neither of which is true.


NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> 2.  Your opinion that racism "is very rare these days" is wrong and I don't know where you're getting your information.  The EEOC has current stats, you don't believe them?  Every state has their own civil rights office and they are in the year 2022, investigating and processing cases with findings of racial and other discrimination.  You don't believe them either?


Of course it’s rare. Your digging up a couple of stories - which werent even backing up your claim - doesn’t mean racism is common. Millions of people go into a bank every day, and if there are a few isolated cases, that counts as rare.

In fact, antisemitism is more common. A Jew is more likely to be a victim of a hate crime than a black. i myself have been victimized twice - property damaged with the word Jew scratched in in one case, and spray painted in the other.


----------



## Paul Essien (May 2, 2022)

JoeB131
*I'm in trouble with other white people all the time... it just doesn't bother me that much. This is why my bro and I aren't on speaking terms. The evidence told me his buddy did it. He feels his buddy was railroaded*.

You're brother is a white extremist.

Bull Connor. David Duke, Richard Spencer, George Rockwell, Dylan Roof, Matt Heimbach, Aryan Nation, Nazi Low Riders, Aryan Brotherhood, The Proud Boys.

They're extreme advocates of white supremacy.

You seem to use white extremists as a barometer as to your own racism. Of course most white don’t suscribe to KKK or neo-nazi babblings, this is why they are invaluable.

This is why your up here bragging about not talking to your brother. It makes you feel good about yourself since you think your not so extreme. You're brother was like these other cowardly white extremists in police departments










When I think of a white supremacist. I don't think about ppl like your brother. I think of the nicest, sweetest acting white person I could find. I think of Ellen DeGeneres. I think of Tom Hanks. The calm white supremacist who do this.












White supremacists are normal everyday people who hid in plain sight. They're teachers, fireman, your next door neighbor.

I prefer the blatant racist as I don’t have to waste my precious time and energy finding this out down the road. All these _"fughn race war maaan" "White power maan" "14 words maaan" _not worried about them

I also prefer the white person who acknowledges their biases and racism and works to rid themselves of their views.

JoeB131
*So let me get this straight..White people hate you. Asian people hate you. Hispanic people are really white and hate you. Black people immigrating from the Caribbean and Africa hate you. Black people like Thomas Sowell are sellouts... Did I miss anything.*

I never said anything about hate.

Racism is not about not _“liking”_ someone of another group. Racism is a systematic way of harming people of another group and that requires power and systems and the collective agreement by that group to support and participate in the mistreatment of people outside that group

The only people on the planet who systematically exhibit these kind of behaviours toward people just because they look different (_no matter where they go_) from North America to Africa to New Zealand and Australia are white people.

A white supremacist can marry and have kids to a black or non white person.

That white supremacist Gregory Bush who went into that church in Kentucky and killed two black people a couple of years bk. He wanted to kill more but the door was locked. He was married to a black woman






Charles Murray (_Author of The Bell Curve_) married an Asian woman and had two hapa children and this is the author of the most-cited white supremacist handbooks (_the book that scientifically tries to prove how stupid that blk ppl are_)











Irony is now the leaders of the Alt-Right are complaining about the growing number of Hapas attending their white nationalist conferences that their white supremacist fathers dragged them to.

That's why we have Asian whites supremacists in USMB like Juicin and abu afak

At the end of the day - Apart from a few nuts white people do not walk out their door in the morning saying,_ “I am going to screw black people”_

They don't have to : Their forefathers set up the country to do just that.

JoeB131
*And so are you... They've justified their racism in their heads, you've justified yours....*

OK. Let's say I am racist ..So what ? You still get the job. You still get the car. You still get loan. Your areas don't get gentrified. You still don't get shot in the head for traffice violations. You're still given the benefit of the doubt. You can still go anywhere in the world and set up shop and no one would have problem

So how does this black racism affect you ?

JoeB131
*Except black people get away with crimes all the time. Often because other black people won't report it*






JoeB131
*Generally, I don't know what any store keeper said to you, but given the attitude you express here,*






JoeB131
*I've known a lot of white chicks who date Asian dudes... but you might have a point, that there is a fetishism towards*

Maybe you have but the dismal reality Asian men or should I say Oriental men find themselves in in is that women don’t want them for anything except the occasional help on a computer or numbers-related problem.

Chinese men are the world’s least fuckable men.





Their own females (espcially in the west) don't want them and are happy getting dick downed by white boys ...TO THE MAX

White dudes have destroyed the Asian male image.

But sure whites may say "Asians have a higher IQ" but they'll also say "Asians are less creative" . They will still typecast Asian males as nerdy and effeminate and Asian women as submissive and at the mercy of white western males.

So that's one way white supremacists get around the Asian IQ roadblock. Also they'll still dehumanize Asians into "emotionless think tanks". This is why in Silicon Valley they deny Asians opportunities at leadership positions and give them jobs only as programmers

JoeB131
*I personally think this is because white women have become kind of a pain due to feminism and they find Asian women more compliant.*

Are you listening to that Lisa558 ?

JoeB131
*Really? How about when the Japanese Americans were interned during WWII? Or when we passed a Chinese Exclusion act after bringing Chinese men over here to build the railroads, and then excluded their families?*

And they got their repariations

Reparations was given to the HEIRS of the Japanese who we’re interned. So the same should be done for the heirs of Black American slaves






Black people built the USA. Trump admits this. Yet no reparations in the form of CASH PAYMENTS but for everyone else ? No problem






Meanwile North Carolina gave $846 million in taxpayer funds to white owned and run Apple (worth $2.3 trillion) to build a mainly white campus there. White owned and run Amazon (worth $1.7T) got $3.8B in subsidies across the U.S. When  blk people get free money, it's "welfare." When white corporations do, it's "incentives."






JoeB131
*Or when we engaged in a genocidal war in the Philippines?*

And who was it that put a stop to that ?

A black American man named David Fagan and other blk men defected because he didn't wanna see the filippinos get slaughtered. So he and a few other blk men started a guerilla war against the USA army






He went over there training the Asians so they wouldn't be sitting ducks for the white supremacists.

In the 1960's; Asians are over here because of us fighting for the 1965 immigration act. It was the black panthers speaking out against the Vietnam war






Muhammad Ali gave up his best boxing years for Asians.

He was out the sport for 3 years because he didn't want to got to Vietnam and harm Asian people





We are the economic base for Asians. We propped them up but that was not returned because Asians have a policy of not spending a dime with black businesses. And we better not go to their countries coz the anti blk racism is so deep there. It was black people who watched them Kung Fu movies of the 70's and made Bruce Lee an icon.

We have helped everybody.

And let's broaden thids out

The USA uses drones all over South Asia.





They send Hellfire missiles not just at military targets but at houses, schools, restaurants, bakeries, during Ramadan, during funerals, after they have prayed, after they protest against drones, sends them if they come to help the dying and wounded from the first missile, even if it is your father, mother, sister, brother, cousin






It's white supremacist who are real killers on this planet


----------



## Paul Essien (May 2, 2022)

JoeB131
*Uh, yeah... not really. Here's the thing. The Swastika is considered a symbol of good luck in Asia.*





JoeB131
*Also, the Japanese have a whole bunch of weird subcultures and fads. They don't have the hostility towards Nazis because WWII isn't really taught in Japanese school*s.





joebfishin
*The Japanese barely acknowledge the awful shit they did, much less what their ally did.*





JoeB131
*Or more likely, white people know if they pick up some Hispanic men, the work will get done.*

So what is it about black people that makes us so lazy ?

JoeB131
*Wasn't my place to punish Officer Loehmann.*

And that's what white supremacist do. Condemn white supremacists with out punishing

JoeB131
* A grand jury- which had black people on it - reviewed the evidence and decided not to charge. Now, I've said I thought that process was wrong. That the DA went into the Grand Jury acting like a defense lawyer... but other blacks decided not to prosecute and when McGinty was replaced with a black DA, he didn't reopen the case, either




*


----------



## IM2 (May 2, 2022)

MarathonMike said:


> The bottom line is that you, IM2, Paul and the rest spend your day pointing your finger at everyone screaming RACIST!! That is a complete waste of time and accomplishes exactly nothing. Individuals who are Racist have no bearing on anyone's life but their own.


And you and the other racists spend your day posting racism. So as long as you do that, you will be called on it. You are a racist individual and you elect racist individuals who create policies that affect millions of lives.


----------



## IM2 (May 2, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Ah! So you say would have approved if I had opened the thread about the different reasons blacks and whites are poor? Well, DUH. of course you would. That’s YOUR position: that blacks are poor (of the minority who are) because of racism.
> 
> Bit that is not why I opened the thread. I opened it to refute the blame that whites are getting because some SOME p blacks are poor. No,  poor blacks are so because they are having children out of wedlock (a 75% illegitimacy rate is shameful) and not completing their schooling as a result.
> 
> ...


No Lisa, I am not a racist. I did not make your argument because all my life I have faced racism. You cannot make any claims about the lives of people of color and not factor in racism. My mom and dad lived together for 52 years until my father died. Both had the required education necessary and we grew up poor. You have been shown that white single parents make more money than 2 parent black families. You have been shown that regardless of education and work experience blacks are paid less than whites, yet you cling to your racist lie.

So until whites like you are willing to accept that white racism remains a stumbling block for communities of color, the fight will continue.


----------



## JoeMoma (May 2, 2022)

There are a couple of dogmatic "axioms" demonstrated by several posters in this thread.

1.  All the major problems faced by blacks in America is due to racism of whites.  
2.  Anything people say to explain otherwise is either false or irrelevant.


----------



## IM2 (May 2, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yes. Racism is an impediment. So is antisemitism. But one moves beyond poverty, and amidst bigotry, into outright affluence if smart and motivated enough, by making the right choices. The fact that some blacks are still in poverty, while the majority are NOT, speaks to the poor choices the poor blacks have made….NOT racism.
> 
> Just as IM2 said, he is a successful black man because he didn’t father an illegitimate baby and he went to college. Instead of blaming whitey for the fact that some blacks are still poor, he - and you - and ALL successful blacks should be emphasizing and teaching young black children that the way out of poverty is by NOT becoming an unwed teen mother and instead graduating from high school, at a minimum, and going on to get some sort of career or vocational training.
> 
> Instead, you’re trying to convince them that their failures are not their fault, but whitey’s. THAT type of message is the real impediment.


Look ho, don't try using my words to justify your racism. You are white. You are racist, but you want to use being jewish as plausible deniability.



Lisa558 said:


> Anyone can break free of poverty by doing the following, at a minimum:
> 
> 1) If you have sex while in high school (not everyone does, by the way), use birth control consistently. Double up, even, because a pregnancy at this stage of life will likely result in a life of financial struggle. Thus, your chance of an unwanted pregnancy drops from “probably” to about 1 in 200.
> 
> ...



1 in 4 blacks live in poverty. I in 12 whites do. In 2020, the American household median income was $67,521 per year. The median income for non-Hispanic White households was $74.912; for Blacks households, $45,870.50 Black household median income was 61 percent of white households in 2020.

*Unencumbered by a baby, complete high school and then use a Pell Grant to get a free community college education focused on a vocational track. That right there moves you into the lower-middle class*

_More than 90 percent of younger African Americans (ages 25 to 29) have graduated from high school, compared with just over half in 1968—which means they’ve nearly closed the gap with white high school graduation rates. _

Janelle Jones, John Schmitt, Valerie Wilson, “_50 years after the Kerner Commission,”_ Economic Policy Institute, February 26, 2018, 50 years after the Kerner Commission: African Americans are better off in many ways but are still disadvantaged by racial inequality

Payscale did a two-year study from 2017 to 2019, and this is their conclusion: _"we find equal pay for equal work is still not a reality."_ They studied the earnings of white men and men of color using data from 1.8 million employees. They found that no matter how far they advanced, black men made less than white men with the same qualifications. According to the study, _“black men were the only racial/ethnic group not achieving pay parity with white men at some level."_ The study showed that black men had the most significant "uncontrolled pay gap" relative to white men and that on average, black men earned 87 cents for every dollar a white man earned. The Payscale study showed that black men are paid less compared to all other men. Even when black and white men had the same job, experience, education, and worked at the same geographic location, the study shows a controlled pay gap whereby black men earned less.  Executive-level black men still earn less than white men at that same level.

Stephen Miller, _Black Workers Still Earn Less than Their White Counterparts,_ www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/hr-topics/compensation/pages/racial-wage-gaps-persistence-poses-challenge.aspx

The National Women’s Law Center also showed that black women are paid less than other women. Black women are paid 63 cents for every dollar paid to white men based on calculations used in the study. Where this impacts black single mothers is this study shows a pay difference of over 20,000 dollars per year. _"Black women have to work more than 19 months—until the very last day of July—to make as much as white, non-Hispanic men did in the previous 12-month calendar year."  _Black women in high-wage occupations earn 64 cents for every dollar a white man earns. On average, that is 40,000 dollars per year less than white men in those same occupations. This renders the unwed mother, fatherless home opinion meritless relative to income and poverty because a black couple can get married, daddy lives at home, and the family still makes less than whites. This is not about lack of education. Nor is it about the field of study.

Brandie Temple and Jasmine Tucker, _Equal Pay for Black Women_, Equal Pay for Black Women - National Women's Law Center,

_"Even after completing undergraduate and graduate degrees, black and Hispanic workers earned less than non-Hispanic white workers with the same, or often less, education."_
*- Roy Eduardo Kokoyachuk, ThinkNow Research*37 

 Kokoyachuck found that blacks and Hispanics with college degrees were paid less than whites and Asians with comparable education. His study showed that blacks and Hispanics who graduated in S.T.E.M majors earned less than whites and Asians with degrees in those same majors. _"Even when Blacks and Hispanics go the extra mile and earn professional degrees, their incomes still don’t break six figures. Whites and Asians, however, double their incomes by earning professional degrees, allowing them to make well over $100,000 a year." _

Roy Eduardo Kokoyachuk, _Education Alone Can't Close The Racial Wage Gap_, Education Alone Can't Close The Racial Wage Gap

*"In 1965, Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s report, The Negro Family: The Case for National Action, attributed racial inequality as well as poverty and crime in the black community to family structure, particularly the prevalence of families headed by single mothers. Not only did research at the time cast doubt on this causality, but evidence over the last the 50 years demonstrates that rates of child poverty, educational attainment, and crime do not track rates of single parenthood. Thus, even though the share of children living with a single mother rose for all racial and ethnic groups through the mid-1990s and has remained high since then, school completion and youth arrests for violent crimes have declined significantly, while poverty rates have fluctuated according to economic conditions. Family structure does not drive racial inequity, and racial inequity persists regardless of family structure." -Amy Traub, Laura Sullivan, Tatjana Meschede and Thomas Shapiro, DEMOS, “The Asset Value of Whiteness: Understanding the Racial Wealth Gap.”*

Amy Traub, Laura Sullivan, Tatjana Meschede and Thomas Shapiro, DEMOS, _The Asset Value of Whiteness: Understanding the Racial Wealth Gap,_ pg. 10 https://www.demos.org/sites/default/files/publications/Asset Value of Whiteness_0.pdf

You can believe in Santa Claus, but when you are shown Santa does not exist, you're a dumb ass to keep repeating that he does. The same holds true for Lisas argument and all others in agreement.


----------



## IM2 (May 2, 2022)

Juicin said:


> Jesus christ paul i can't be reading all this n i g g e r delusion
> 
> And no we did not give handouts to "japanese americans' we gave handouts to specifically the ones we put in fucking camps
> 
> The rest i'm too lazy. I don't even see where you referenced me i just got a ping


You're the delusional one and using a slur you would not dare say to Essen in his face.


----------



## IM2 (May 2, 2022)

JoeMoma said:


> There are a couple of dogmatic "axioms" demonstrated by several posters in this thread.
> 
> 1.  All the major problems faced by blacks in America is due to racism of whites.
> 2.  Anything people say to explain otherwise is either false or irrelevant.


*“The U.S. racial wealth gap is substantial and is driven by public policy decisions.*_ According to our analysis of the SIPP data, in 2011 the median white household had $111,146 in wealth holdings, compared to just $7,113 for the median Black household and $8,348 for the median Latino household. From the continuing impact of redlining on American homeownership to the retreat from desegregation in public education, public policy has shaped these disparities, leaving them impossible to overcome without racially-aware policy change.” -_*DEMOS *

Fact. Not dogmatic.


----------



## Juicin (May 2, 2022)

IM2 said:


> You're the delusional one and using a slur you would not dare say to Essen in his face.



I'm twice his size, i assure you i would have no fear saying it to either of you

Especially as you're ranting about your fucking delusions. Making us all look bad

"listen here ****** we're not going to be collateral in your war with the whites"


----------



## IM2 (May 2, 2022)

Juicin said:


> I'm twice his size, i assure you i would have no fear saying it to either of you
> 
> Especially as you're ranting about your fucking delusions. Making us all look bad
> 
> "listen here ****** we're not going to be collateral in your war with the whites"


You would not like the consequences of your decision. 

So understand this, other people of color feel just like we do. You are a sellout.


----------



## JoeMoma (May 2, 2022)

IM2 said:


> *“The U.S. racial wealth gap is substantial and is driven by public policy decisions.*_ According to our analysis of the SIPP data, in 2011 the median white household had $111,146 in wealth holdings, compared to just $7,113 for the median Black household and $8,348 for the median Latino household. From the continuing impact of redlining on American homeownership to the retreat from desegregation in public education, public policy has shaped these disparities, leaving them impossible to overcome without racially-aware policy change.” -_*DEMOS *
> 
> Fact. Not dogmatic.


----------



## Lisa558 (May 2, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Look ho, don't try using my words to justify your racism. You are white. You are racist, but you want to use being jewish as plausible deniability.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I stopped reading when you called me a Ho. Adios, your racist.


----------



## Juicin (May 2, 2022)

IM2 said:


> You would not like the consequences of your decision.
> 
> So understand this, other people of color feel just like we do. You are a sellout.



Little white girls shoot straighter than your average black man

And 95% you soft little fuckers can't fight. Hah


----------



## IM2 (May 2, 2022)

Juicin said:


> Little white girls shoot straighter than your average black man
> 
> And 95% you soft little fuckers can't fight. Hah


If you need a gun you're a punk. And judging by the past 70-80 of boxing, your second sentence is wrong too. My experience tells me that you guys from India are extremely soft. Because most of the Indians that come here are upper crust, caviar eating pricks with silver spoons stuck in their mouths, gold spoons stuck up their asses, who are here by government handout H1B visas that give you jobs and then you have the nerve to talk about what blacks need to do. Go take your Punjabi ass back to Mumbai and find a pick up cricket game.


----------



## Juicin (May 2, 2022)

IM2 said:


> If you need a gun you're a punk. And judging by the past 70-80 of boxing, your second sentence is wrong too. My experience tells me that you guys from India are extremely soft. Because most of the Indians that come here are upper crust, caviar eating pricks with silver spoons stuck in their mouths, gold spoons stuck up their asses, who are here by government handout H1B visas that give you jobs and then you have the nerve to talk about what blacks need to do. Go take your Punjabi ass back to Mumbai and find a pick up cricket game.




lol Africans can't even handle Indians in Africa









						Indian vs. Black: Vigilante Killings Upend a South African Town (Published 2021)
					

As rioting and looting swept the country, Indians in the suburb of Phoenix set up roadblocks to police their streets. Dozens of Black people passing through wound up dead.




					www.nytimes.com
				




The bit of the American blacks that is scary is the white part of you, darky.

I'm a big hybrid too, difference is I can't jump, but i can read.  Hahaha

Blacks are the lowest on the totem pole in martial prowess, other than Ethiopians who like all mountain dwellers are not to be fucked with. Indians who dissolved their warrior caste millenia ago still cutting through you like butter.


----------



## Paul Essien (May 2, 2022)

Juicin 
*Especially as you're ranting about your fucking delusions. Making us all look bad*

_"Us" ? Sure about that ?_

Juicin 
*"listen here ****** we're not going to be collateral in your war with the whites"*

We don't need you for nothing. You gotta get that straight in your head.


----------



## MarathonMike (May 2, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Thank you! That has been my point all alone. Minorities alive today have horrible persecution and bigotry in their history, and some within their living memories. My father remembered his entire life the heartache my grandmother went through when Hitler slaughtered her own mother, and her sister, and her four nieces and nephews who hadn’t even reached their teens - and the terror they went through in the last minutes of their lives.
> 
> Yet even under this backdrop of the most Jew-hatred one can imagine, my parents and their siblings ALL graduated from college. And then of course the next generation (mine) is replete with doctors, lawyers, accountants, and more.) And this is throughout the Jewish community - all my parents’ friends also grew up poor, lost relatives to the Holocaust, and still went in to become successful. (My dad’s best friend was the grandson of a man who, at age 15, hid from the Nazis and survived for years in the forest.)
> 
> The point is that people do and have risen above the worst of bigotry, and in one generation. For blacks to go back to WWII, and further, with story after story of how racist this country USED to be, and using that as an excuse for why some blacks are still poor today, is merely justifying and excusing poor choices that lead to poverty.





IM2 said:


> And you and the other racists spend your day posting racism. So as long as you do that, you will be called on it. You are a racist individual and you elect racist individuals who create policies that affect millions of lives.


Let's see. I post reports of Chicago shootings. Hmmm no racism there. I post facts about Thomas Sowell and Shelby Steele. No racism there. I post a lot about forgotten Black kids who were murdered because everyone else wants to forget them. No racism there. Can you point out specifically which of my posts were racist?


----------



## Paul Essien (May 2, 2022)

MarathonMike
*Let's see. I post reports of Chicago shootings. Hmmm no racism there. I post facts about Thomas Sowell and Shelby Steele. No racism there. I post a lot about forgotten Black kids who were murdered because everyone else wants to forget them. No racism there. Can you point out specifically which of my posts were racist?*

*You don't care if black kids or black people are getting murdered. *

You're just trying to prove that black people are screwed up and therefore deserve to be mistreated. It's just a way to shift the blame onto black people that's all.

And to be honest most of your stories are lies because there is never any arrests or suspects in these so called black kid murders..

And what's the obssesion with black children anyway ? Are you a child sex offender ?

Do you see me or IM2 or NewsVine_Mariyam start threads about white kids getting killed ?

And if you care so much about kids getting killed then why don't you focus on white kids ? Or Asian kids ? Or Latino kids ? Why do you have a sexual perverted obsession with black kids ?


----------



## JoeB131 (May 2, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> And IM2, one of the worst racists on this forum, made my point himself. He angrily defended himself as being a successful black man - proudly explaining how he never fathered an out of wedlock child and he went to college. Bam! That’s my point! He made the right choices, and thus he isn’t stuck in poverty.



Again, if a black kid came to you after not fathering any children out of wedlock, stayed in school, and you would reject him for admission if a white kid got a slightly higher test score.


----------



## JoeB131 (May 2, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> You're brother is a white extremist.



Naw, he's just an asshole.  (Which he'll pretty freely admit.) 



Paul Essien said:


> You seem to use white extremists as a barometer as to your own racism. Of course most white don’t suscribe to KKK or neo-nazi babblings, this is why they are invaluable.
> 
> This is why your up here bragging about not talking to your brother. It makes you feel good about yourself since you think your not so extreme. You're brother was like these other cowardly white extremists in police departments



No, he was a guy who felt that his friend got railroaded for politics.  I don't agree with him, but I certainly understand where he's coming from.  



Paul Essien said:


> When I think of a white supremacist. I don't think about ppl like your brother. I think of the nicest, sweetest acting white person I could find. I think of Ellen DeGeneres. I think of Tom Hanks. The calm white supremacist who do this.



Yes, we realize this... you have issues.   



Paul Essien said:


> White supremacists are normal everyday people who hid in plain sight. They're teachers, fireman, your next door neighbor.
> 
> I prefer the blatant racist as I don’t have to waste my precious time and energy finding this out down the road. All these _"fughn race war maaan" "White power maan" "14 words maaan" _not worried about them
> 
> I also prefer the white person who acknowledges their biases and racism and works to rid themselves of their views.



Which I kind of have...but you go do you, bud.  

Yes, the Neo-Nazi is bad.  But the average woman who crosses to the other side of the street when she sees a couple of young black guys?  Is she an evil racist, too?  Because Rev. Jackson has said he does the same thing. 



Paul Essien said:


> I never said anything about hate.
> 
> Racism is not about not _“liking”_ someone of another group. Racism is a systematic way of harming people of another group and that requires power and systems and the collective agreement by that group to support and participate in the mistreatment of people outside that group



I kind of agree with that... So since 99% of white people really don't have the power to harm you... why all the hate? 



Paul Essien said:


> Charles Murray (_Author of The Bell Curve_) married an Asian woman and had two hapa children and this is the author of the most-cited white supremacist handbooks (_the book that scientifically tries to prove how stupid that blk ppl are_)


Well, if he tried to say how stupid Asians were, he wasn't getting any pussy that night... so there's that.  



Paul Essien said:


> Maybe you have but the dismal reality Asian men or should I say Oriental men find themselves in in is that women don’t want them for anything except the occasional help on a computer or numbers-related problem.



Wow, you know, nobody says "Oriental" anymore... it's like saying "Colored".  



Paul Essien said:


> Their own females (espcially in the west) don't want them and are happy getting dick downed by white boys ...TO THE MAX


But not black guys, which is what pisses you off, amiright? 



Paul Essien said:


> But sure whites may say "Asians have a higher IQ" but they'll also say "Asians are less creative" . They will still typecast Asian males as nerdy and effeminate and Asian women as submissive and at the mercy of white western males.



I've never heard a white person say that, ever.   



Paul Essien said:


> So that's one way white supremacists get around the Asian IQ roadblock. Also they'll still dehumanize Asians into "emotionless think tanks". This is why in Silicon Valley they deny Asians opportunities at leadership positions and give them jobs only as programmers



Again, never heard any white person say that.... but never mind.  




Paul Essien said:


> And they got their repariations
> 
> Reparations was given to the HEIRS of the Japanese who we’re interned. So the same should be done for the heirs of Black American slaves



Actually, they only paid reparations - about $11,000 to people who were interned.  



Paul Essien said:


> Meanwile North Carolina gave $846 million in taxpayer funds to white owned and run Apple (worth $2.3 trillion) to build a mainly white campus there. White owned and run Amazon (worth $1.7T) got $3.8B in subsidies across the U.S. When blk people get free money, it's "welfare." When white corporations do, it's "incentives."



I'd be the first one to criticize Corporate Welfare, but how many jobs do these campuses generate? 



Paul Essien said:


> And who was it that put a stop to that ?
> 
> A black American man named David Fagan and other blk men defected because he didn't wanna see the filippinos get slaughtered. So he and a few other blk men started a guerilla war against the USA army



Yeah, that did it... sure.   So...um, why didn't we leave the Philippines until 1946?  Oh, no, buddy, the Philippine War ended because the First Philippine Republic got defeated and Emilio Aguinaldo went full Winston Smith.  

Actually, here's what actually happened... American Public opinion turned against the war, when people like Mark Twain spoke out against it.


----------



## JoeB131 (May 2, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> You're just trying to prove that black people are screwed up and therefore deserve to be mistreated. It's just a way to shift the blame onto black people that's all.
> 
> And to be honest most of your stories are lies because there is never any arrests or suspects in these so called black kid murders..
> 
> ...



Here's the thing... if a white kid is gunned down, every last person who witnesses is going to give a statement to the cops.  

If there's a drive by in Chicago, nobody saw nothing.  










						15 injured in Chicago drive-by shooting at funeral for man killed in drive-by shooting | CNN
					

Fifteen people were shot in a drive-by shooting in Chicago on Tuesday at a funeral for a victim of another drive-by shooting, Chicago Police said.




					www.cnn.com


----------



## IM2 (May 2, 2022)

Joe the problem is public policy. This is not just about what can be done by a single individuals. There are about 250 whites in this country at minimum who can destroy the lives of almost 48 million blacks.  And I'm not including state and local governments.


----------



## IM2 (May 2, 2022)

MarathonMike said:


> Let's see. I post reports of Chicago shootings. Hmmm no racism there. I post facts about Thomas Sowell and Shelby Steele. No racism there. I post a lot about forgotten Black kids who were murdered because everyone else wants to forget them. No racism there. Can you point out specifically which of my posts were racist?


You are a racist. Chicago is not even close to the top in shootings and killings. Sowell and Steele are 2 idiots who say what racists want to hear. You post about those black kids with a running commentary full of racist stereotypes. The first one being that everyone else wants to forget them. We are talking about ending the problem that creates the violence in the first place. At this point we are at more than 80,000 dead blacks that YOU want to forget and that YOU have refused to believe was the cause of death.  So you aren't fooling anyone racist.


----------



## MarathonMike (May 2, 2022)

IM2 said:


> You are a racist. Chicago is not even close to the top in shootings and killings. Sowell and Steele are 2 idiots who say what racists want to hear. You post about those black kids with a running commentary full of racist stereotypes. The first one being that everyone else wants to forget them. We are talking about ending the problem that creates the violence in the first place. At this point we are at more than 80,000 dead blacks that YOU want to forget and that YOU have refused to believe was the cause of death.  So you aren't fooling anyone racist.


I knew you couldn't *come up with a single post I've made that was racist. *I just wanted to prove it to USMB. Thanks for playing you lose......again. 

Thomas Sowell and Shelby Steele are idiots? 
My you really are digging that hole deep today, arent' you?


----------



## MarathonMike (May 2, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> *You don't care if black kids or black people are getting murdered. *


What a stupid statement! How can you possibly KNOW what another person cares about? All you do is feed your hatred of White people all day long. I truly pity you and your buddy IM2.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 2, 2022)

MarathonMike said:


> The bottom line is that you, IM2, Paul and the rest spend your day pointing your finger at everyone screaming RACIST!! That is a complete waste of time and accomplishes exactly nothing. Individuals who are Racist have no bearing on anyone's life but their own.


Not when they are police officers, or prosecutors, or attorneys, or judges, property owners, landlords, bankers or other people who lodge false complaints, or have the authority to have you fired, or deny you a needed loan or to call in your mortgage, the list goes on and on.

ALL white racists have the ability to do harm and many have and will continue to do so..  If this weren't true we would not have the CURRENT (meaning in the last few years to date) criminal, civil, and administrative findings that show racism and/or crimes of hate against people who have protected class status.  And that's on top of everything that came before that white racists ALWAYS want to discount as if they do not understand the totality of the situation and how the harm is cumulative.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 2, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> There are no white racists here. Only those who say that blacks who remain in poverty are doing it to themselves via their bad choices - mainly have a child out of wedlock they can’t afford - the same way poor whites do.


Ray is a self-admitted white separatist.  Death Angel is a self-admitted racist as are at least two others I can't think of at the moment and I'm not going to take the time to look them up especially since I've already posted Ray's comment from 2018 in which he admits this.

You're so simple minded but believe whatever you want.  I don't see you making any positive impact on this world, unlike our allies



> Murder of Jewish civil rights activists​
> 
> 
> ​Andrew Goodman​​The summer of 1964 was designated the Freedom Summer, and many Jews from the North and West traveled to the South to participate in a concentrated voter registration effort. Two Jewish activists, Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner, and one Black activist, James Chaney, were murdered by the Ku Klux Klan near Philadelphia, Mississippi, as a result of their participation. Their deaths were considered martyrdom by some, and as a result, Black-Jewish relations were temporarily strengthened.[_citation needed_]​​In 1965, Martin Luther King Jr., said,​How could there be anti-Semitism among Negroes when our Jewish friends have demonstrated their commitment to the principle of tolerance and brotherhood not only in the form of sizable contributions, but in many other tangible ways, and often at great personal sacrifice. Can we ever express our appreciation to the rabbis who chose to give moral witness with us in St. Augustine during our recent protest against segregation in that unhappy city? Need I remind anyone of the awful beating suffered by Rabbi Arthur Lelyveld of Cleveland when he joined the civil rights workers there in Hattiesburg, Mississippi? And who can ever forget the sacrifice of two Jewish lives, Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner, in the swamps of Mississippi? It would be impossible to record the contribution that the Jewish people have made toward the Negro's struggle for freedom—it has been so great.[49][_non-primary source needed_]
> African American–Jewish relations - Wikipedia​


​​


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The property owner is from the middle-east.  He buys rental property and charges outrageous prices that nobody would pay outside of Section 8.  They get their vouchers, add money to them from their part-time jobs, and that's how they sneak into the suburbs.  I've had fights with the guy about his tenants.  I even threatened him that if I lose one tenant over his tenants, their noise, their disruption, I'll be suing him in court for my losses.  His eyes lit up like he just met Jesus.
> 
> Yes, his tenants were all black.


It sounds like the problems you have are caused more by the fact you live in a poor neighborhood than in a black neighborhood.

And/or that one or more of the property owners are renting out their properties instead of living in them.  I had a close friend who experienced the same problem but it happened in a middle class black neighborhood.  She and her mom had lived there for something like 30 years when the next door neighbor moved out and a series of undesirable neighbors moved in as renters.

When you own your home and live in a nice neighborhood it seems as if there is some tacit agreement that everyone keeps up their own property or pressure the ones who aren't into not bringing the neighborhood done.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 3, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> So you think we have to have favoritism toward blacks for the same number of years that there was racism? You want anti-white laws for the next 200 years?
> 
> Get real. All that is required is to give favoritism to blacks for ONE generation, and they can reverse the situation. They’ve already had two. If after two generations, the majority of blacks are no longer poor - and many are now upper-middle class or downright wealthy - then the ones who still are poor are so due to their own stupid choices.


You're stupid.  Nobody has received "welfare" for 58 years, that's a lie that racist tell about black people.  And there is no such thing as "anti-white" laws in the U.S. nor has there ever been.  

But yeah, or government should pay reparations for the 186 years that black people were subjected to lawful segregation, discrimination, hatred and violence.

How did your people get reparations?  And why?


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Oh please!  You post these pathetic stories and claim racism?  Since you only read the headlines and not the story as I did, this is what was reported; your first story:
> 
> _The Pinal County Federal Credit Union stated that the bank manager called 911 shortly after running the check. After the bank ran the check through the third-party verification system, it came out inconclusive.
> 
> ...


How many times have you had the police draw down on you Ray?  How many times while you were in your bank withdrawing large sums of money?  According to you, you made good money, surly there must have been times when you wanted to withdraw some of your cash, right?  Were the police called on you, was anyone pointing a gun at you?


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 3, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Why would I apologize for something I said that was 100% correct?  You posted nothing that anybody couldn't find on the internet, as in the Florida CCW license I posted claiming it was mine.  If you have a CCW license, you better contact your state and explain how some instructors are passing out licenses to people that can't pass the test, and anybody that claims carrying a firearm and not being allowed to use it is what they were instructed should get every dime of their money back, and the instructor should lose his license to issue CCW's. You didn't even know the basic laws of using a firearm in public.  That's how I know you are lying.
> 
> Making a complaint is not the same as being found guilty of wrongdoing; anybody can file a complaint whether genuine or phony.  People get pissed off because they didn't get a job and look for ways to get even with the company that didn't hire them.  So again, you proved nothing.


So you're claiming that what I posted is not a real license, it's something that I found on the internet and photo shopped?  I suspect that even if I posted my actual license, photo, name and all, you still wouldn't believe it.  Why is that?  Is it that difficult for you to believe that I may move in circles that you're not privy or able to?

I tell you what though.  I have to see my firearm instructor this month because my annual firearms requalification is due. He's certified by the state and he's a white guy so I guess that means you'll believe him even if you won't believe me.  I'll ask him the same thing that I stated to you, that a concealed carry permit is not a permit to use your weapon, merely to carry it.  That use of the weapon is governed by the self-defense laws which are pretty much universal in all states but with the specifics of each state added.  And speaking of such 
​


> 776.041 Use or threatened use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:​(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or​     (2) *Initially provokes the use or threatened use of force against himself or herself*, unless:
> (a) Such force or threat of force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use or threatened use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or​(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use or threatened use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use or threatened use of force.​History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1190, ch. 97-102; s. 7, ch. 2014-195.
> 
> Statutes & Constitution        :View Statutes      :      Online Sunshine​



And you do know that I CAN prove my identity to you here on this site, but I suspect you don't want me to do that because that would prove that you've been wrong this entire time, about several things.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 3, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Why should he apologize to you? He said nothing wrong. You on the other hand have been calling me disgusting names.Are you going to apologize to me? After all, you did call me evil and a racist, neither of which is true.
> 
> Of course it’s rare. Your digging up a couple of stories - which werent even backing up your claim - doesn’t mean racism is common. Millions of people go into a bank every day, and if there are a few isolated cases, that counts as rare.
> 
> In fact, antisemitism is more common. A Jew is more likely to be a victim of a hate crime than a black. i myself have been victimized twice - property damaged with the word Jew scratched in in one case, and spray painted in the other.


Lisa do you have a Florida concealed weapons permit?  Because that was the topic and the surrounding laws regarding self-defense.  Ray claims WITH NO EVIDENCE that I don't have one, which is an extremely stupid comment to make since he doesn't know if I do or not.

Also just because he can't think of a way for me to prove that I do, doesn't mean that I can't.  Just being short-sighted.

And antisemitism is not more common than hate crimes against black people nor has it ever been.  If you've experienced it twice in your life, I would say twice is two times too many for anyone to be singled out for that kind of "racial" hatred .  On the other hand, I have experienced discrimination in housing, employment, banking, etc. probably at least a dozen times.  In fact one of the housing incidents occurred in Florida and my boss when he saw how shaken I was when I arrived at work, called the landlord who was advertising for the apartment I wanted and was told they didn't have it anymore and verified that they were lying to me -  they wanted him to come down immediately in order to view it.  I didn't do anything about it, I just found another place, but no one should have to "find somewhere else" other than the place they want it they can afford it and meet all other requirements.


----------



## IM2 (May 3, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> I stopped reading when you called me a Ho. Adios, your racist.


You're a racist so I don't have any respect for you. You call me a racist for calling out racism. That's a prime tactic used in white fragility.


----------



## IM2 (May 3, 2022)

Juicin said:


> lol Africans can't even handle Indians in Africa
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Juicin,

The white man ran your asses for nearly 300 years during the Raj, shut the fuck up.


----------



## IM2 (May 3, 2022)

MarathonMike said:


> What a stupid statement! How can you possibly KNOW what another person cares about? All you do is feed your hatred of White people all day long. I truly pity you and your buddy IM2.


You don't care. You only do it to run your mouth using stereotypes. I've worked in the community, all you've done is post racist bullshit in a forum.


----------



## IM2 (May 3, 2022)

MarathonMike said:


> I knew you couldn't *come up with a single post I've made that was racist. *I just wanted to prove it to USMB. Thanks for playing you lose......again.
> 
> Thomas Sowell and Shelby Steele are idiots?
> My you really are digging that hole deep today, arent' you?


Yes, Sowell and Steele are idiots. You have a whole racist thread fool.


----------



## IM2 (May 3, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Here's the thing... if a white kid is gunned down, every last person who witnesses is going to give a statement to the cops.
> 
> If there's a drive by in Chicago, nobody saw nothing.
> 
> ...


That's not true. And besides blacks have real good reason not to trust police.

Joe, you're filling up pages with some stereotypes about black people that are untrue because you want to tell Paul how wrong he is. Paul is not wrong. When Ahmaud Arbery was shot, the white police department tried covering it up. Whites corporatized crime Joe, so you really need to drop the stereotypes.


----------



## JoeB131 (May 3, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Joe the problem is public policy. This is not just about what can be done by a single individuals. There are about 250 whites in this country at minimum who can destroy the lives of almost 48 million blacks. And I'm not including state and local governments.



Frankly, if your life is so fragile that 250 members of Congress can destroy it, that says a lot about dependency.  

My own interaction with the Federal Government has been kind of limited since I hung up the fatigues.  I pay my taxes every year, I got a VA loan once, and... that's about it.   Sure, they will fuck up the economy, but they fuck that up for everyone.


----------



## JoeB131 (May 3, 2022)

IM2 said:


> That's not true. And besides blacks have real good reason not to trust police.
> 
> Joe, you're filling up pages with some stereotypes about black people that are untrue because you want to tell Paul how wrong he is. Paul is not wrong. When Ahmaud Arbery was shot, the white police department tried covering it up. Whites corporatized crime Joe, so you really need to drop the stereotypes.



The guys who shot Arbery have gone to prison for life.. including the poor fool who was only holding the camera and didn't have the good sense to hit erase.  

My point was, when you have a drive by shooting, dozens of witnesses, and no one sees nothing, and the cops eventually have to toss it into the "Don't give a crap" docket. 

Should the police work harder?  Absolutely.  They turned over every rock to prove Jussie Smollett lied about a hate crime.  They could work harder on these drive-by shootings.  But the first step is someone saying... 'I saw Jamal firing the Mac-10".  

Mistrust in authority is sensible.   Handing over your communities to criminal organizations is not.  There are areas in Chicago like Austin and Englewood that most people of all races have the good sense to avoid.   but someone has to live there, and they are the ones who need to initiate the change.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 3, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Lisa do you have a Florida concealed weapons permit? Because that was the topic and the surrounding laws regarding self-defense. Ray claims WITH NO EVIDENCE that I don't have one, which is an extremely stupid comment to make since he doesn't know if I do or not.
> 
> Also just because he can't think of a way for me to prove that I do, doesn't mean that I can't. Just being short-sighted.



WTF are you talking about no evidence?  You don't know the first thing about CCWs or the laws, that's what I'm basing my opinion on.  If you told me you were a doctor and recommend putting a band aid on a bullet wound, then yes, I'm liable to believe you are no doctor at all because no doctor would ever make such a recommendation.  If you told me you were a music teacher that taught timing was unimportant in music, I would say you're no music teacher at all because I was a music teacher, and timing is the most important factor when learning a musical instrument.  

What you told me is that CCW holders are taught to carry a gun but never use a gun for self-defense.  THAT'S WHAT CCW'S ARE FOR, TO USE FOR SELF-DEFENSE!  You didn't even know the basic law which is an attacker doesn't need to be using deadly force against you to legally use that firearm for self-defense.  

Nobody with a CCW permit would ever say anything close to what you stated.  They wouldn't have been able to pass the written test with that lack of knowledge.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 3, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> So you're claiming that what I posted is not a real license, it's something that I found on the internet and photo shopped? I suspect that even if I posted my actual license, photo, name and all, you still wouldn't believe it. Why is that? Is it that difficult for you to believe that I may move in circles that you're not privy or able to?
> 
> I tell you what though. I have to see my firearm instructor this month because my annual firearms requalification is due. He's certified by the state and he's a white guy so I guess that means you'll believe him even if you won't believe me. I'll ask him the same thing that I stated to you, that a concealed carry permit is not a permit to use your weapon, merely to carry it. That use of the weapon is governed by the self-defense laws which are pretty much universal in all states but with the specifics of each state added.



So what state do you supposedly have this license from?


----------



## Lisa558 (May 3, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Ray is a self-admitted white separatist.  Death Angel is a self-admitted racist as are at least two others I can't think of at the moment and I'm not going to take the time to look them up especially since I've already posted Ray's comment from 2018 in which he admits this.
> 
> You're so simple minded but believe whatever you want.  I don't see you making any positive impact on this world, unlike our allies
> 
> ...


I’ve already made a positive impact, via the decades in my career (the admissions work was just for a few years) and now via my volunteer efforts. You on the other hand are just making excuses for poor blacks - it’s because of racism!- rather than encourage them to make the right choices that will move them from poverty, like my parents, aunt, and uncle all did.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 3, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> How many times have you had the police draw down on you Ray?  How many times while you were in your bank withdrawing large sums of money?  According to you, you made good money, surly there must have been times when you wanted to withdraw some of your cash, right?  Were the police called on you, was anyone pointing a gun at you?



First off I never claimed to make a lot of money.  I was a working stiff like most people.  I'm as middle-class as anybody can get.  I come from a blue-collar family and carried that tradition in my life.  Investments?  Yes I made investments, but nothing I ever claimed great wealth on.  I have a moderate IRA, real estate investments, played various markets throughout life.  

No, police never "drew down" on me because I never had any suspicious transactions.  I would never dream of handing a teller a note saying "hand over the cash inconspicuously."  I never tried to cash a check for cash from a person that had un-matching account information.  It has nothing to do with being white anymore than the stories you posted had nothing to do with the customers being black.  Guess what!  Computers don't know the race of people when it displays red flags on a transaction.  

And this is why all these racist claims are evidently phony.  You people look to make something racial that never was.  How can anybody take you seriously?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 3, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> It sounds like the problems you have are caused more by the fact you live in a poor neighborhood than in a black neighborhood.
> 
> And/or that one or more of the property owners are renting out their properties instead of living in them.  I had a close friend who experienced the same problem but it happened in a middle class black neighborhood.  She and her mom had lived there for something like 30 years when the next door neighbor moved out and a series of undesirable neighbors moved in as renters.
> 
> When you own your home and live in a nice neighborhood it seems as if there is some tacit agreement that everyone keeps up their own property or pressure the ones who aren't into not bringing the neighborhood done.



It doesn't matter what the neighborhood is.  When HUD or Section 8 targets your area for destruction, that's exactly what they do, destroy it by bringing in their lowlifes.  









						Biden and Dems Are Set to Abolish the Suburbs | National Review
					

If suburban voters knew what the Democrats had in store for them, they’d run screaming in the other direction.




					www.nationalreview.com


----------



## Lisa558 (May 3, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Lisa do you have a Florida concealed weapons permit?  Because that was the topic and the surrounding laws regarding self-defense.  Ray claims WITH NO EVIDENCE that I don't have one, which is an extremely stupid comment to make since he doesn't know if I do or not.
> 
> Also just because he can't think of a way for me to prove that I do, doesn't mean that I can't.  Just being short-sighted.
> 
> And antisemitism is not more common than hate crimes against black people nor has it ever been.  If you've experienced it twice in your life, I would say twice is two times too many for anyone to be singled out for that kind of "racial" hatred .  On the other hand, I have experienced discrimination in housing, employment, banking, etc. probably at least a dozen times.  In fact one of the housing incidents occurred in Florida and my boss when he saw how shaken I was when I arrived at work, called the landlord who was advertising for the apartment I wanted and was told they didn't have it anymore and verified that they were lying to me -  they wanted him to come down immediately in order to view it.  I didn't do anything about it, I just found another place, but no one should have to "find somewhere else" other than the place they want it they can afford it and meet all other requirements.


First, I don’t carry a gun and haven’t been following that aspect of the thread.

Second, yes…proportionate to their numbers, there are more hate crimes against Jews than against blacks. That means that a Jew is more likely to experience a hate crime than a black.

Third, I too have been discriminated against.….jobs, a new neighborhood (this was with my parents 50 years ago)…..clubs, etc. A friend’s father wouldn’t allow her to invite me to her 16th birthday party because he didn’t allow Jews in the house. 

Fourth, when I say two hate crimes, I mean those that actually defaced my property. There were many other incidents that did not hurt propertyl The scariest was when I was about 12 or 13, and home alone, and two teenage boys from up the street came right into my house (we didn’t lock doors during the daytime back then) and unleashed a torrent of anti-Jew venom at me.

My parents could relate similar, and worse, stories - along with their friends. And my grandparents and their friends - OMG. And my great-grandparents, with the Russian pograms, they also had their stories, I’m sure.

But the difference is.…my parents and grandparents never focused on all this. In fact, my grandmother, may she RIP, who lost her own mother, sister, and four nieces and nephews to Hitler, never talked about it. My dad said very little as well. The focus was always what we had NOW - in this great country - and to take advantage of the wonderful opportunities, despite the antisemitism that still exists.

Stop living in the past. You and “your people” live in a country of wonderful opportunity, if only the right choices are made.


----------



## Juicin (May 3, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Juicin,
> 
> The white man ran your asses for nearly 300 years during the Raj, shut the fuck up.



There were millenia of muslim rule before that too

Yet we are by far the biggest group of humans on the planet

Can't say the same for the homeland tho, eh/

Just a shit hole

Hahaha, like butter, even in South Africa where the whites built everything you can't take care of your own.


----------



## Juicin (May 3, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Juicin,
> 
> The white man ran your asses for nearly 300 years during the Raj, shut the fuck up.



Oh yea and I forgot your ancestors were sold by other africans for trinkets like bracelets european peasants would throw away. HAHAH

Indians never sold their own like that, at least not for trinkets


----------



## IM2 (May 3, 2022)

Juicin said:


> Oh yea and I forgot your ancestors were sold by other africans for trinkets like bracelets european peasants would throw away. HAHAH
> 
> Indians never sold their own like that, at least not for trinkets


Really ? Part of the Indians worked for the British and helped then subjugate and kill other Indians. Africa is not one nation. So your story is removed from fact.

ALL RISE!

This Mornings Lesson

*An African Tells The Story About the Slave Trade.*

You are about to read an account from an African about what happened when Europeans showed up in Africa. His ancestors passed this story to each generation, and it was told to him by his elders.

_When the white strangers first came to Africa, We (my ancestors) were not sure about their intentions so most communities drove them away from their land. However, the white strangers managed to convince some of our traditional rulers that they had not come to cause any harm but just to preach the good news (the Bible) and also to trade with the local people. It was barter trading where goods were exchanged for goods. My country Ghana was called "Gold Coast" because gold was in abundance. Although my ancestors valued gold as a precious metal, the white strangers valued it more as a precious mineral worth more than blood in some cases. In other words, my ancestors had the gold and the white strangers needed the gold and had to trade things like bottles of wine, clothing and textiles, guns and ammunitions, etc. for pieces of gold. That was how the "trade" started.

The white strangers did not understand the local language and the local people did not understand a word the white strangers were saying so it made communication very difficult. To help break the language barrier, the white strangers went to the local rulers and asked the local rulers to give them some of the local people to train so they could speak the foreign language which would make communication easier but none of those local rulers were ready to give their people out to go stay with strangers.

Later on, some of the local rulers came up with an idea that, instead of killing those criminals, they could actually give those criminals to the white strangers so the white strangers could preach the good news they said they came to preach to those criminals, change them into good people and also train them in the foreign language in order to aid communication which was better than killing those criminals. So the traditional rulers gave those criminals out to the white strangers and to show appreciation, those white strangers gave gifts like textiles, bottles of wine, mirrors, etc. to the traditional rulers. That was how the white strangers got their first "local servers."

Those local people (the criminals) lived and served the white strangers in the castles and forts and learned the foreign language which enabled them to serve as mediators translating the local language for the white strangers and the foreign language to the local people. This helped a lot in communication.

As I mentioned earlier on, those local servers living with the white strangers were the criminals in the society and although they served as mediators and made communication a whole lot easier, they also made life a living hell for the local people (some as a form of revenge). For example, when the white strangers sent them to go collect taxes (lets say 5 pieces of gold), those criminals added their own taxes and made it 8 pieces of gold. At times too, they mis-translated just so they could get more power. Some of those criminals even became more powerful than the traditional rulers. In other words, the white strangers, after preaching the good news to those criminals, turned them into even far more dangerous monsters than they were before. Why? Because only the white man had guns at that time and they shot anyone the criminals considered "criminals."

Those criminals were the few "Africans" who helped the white strangers to get more slaves. However, don't forget the fact that they were criminals condemned to death in their various societies for being "Un-African."

Those local people living with the white strangers served and "worshiped" them so well to the point where the white strangers began asking for more. Because of the benefits they derived from those local servers, some of the white strangers took some local servers with them on their return home. Back home (abroad), they found those local servers (the black men from Africa) very useful and decided to come back for more. They realized they could use them to work on their plantation farms back home to make more money. They also realized they could sell some of those 'local servers' to their friends and countrymen and make more money and that was why most of them (the white strangers but this time around slave traders) returned with the intention of picking more local servers (this time around, slaves).

So they returned for slaves but no local ruler was ready to give their people out except those criminals I mentioned earlier on and prisoners of war (tribal wars). In my country for example, the Ashantis and those living in the interior parts of the country did not want to have anything to do with the white strangers. In fact, the first white stranger that set foot on the Ashanti empire did not return.

However, the white strangers needed slaves and more slaves but there was no easy way of getting slaves in Africa. So what they did was that, they created confusion among the various tribes so that there would be more tribal wars and more war prisoners so they could get more "slaves" and that was exactly what they did.

Before the white man came to Africa, tribal wars were mostly fought with swords, spears, bows and arrows. Although these weapons were lethal they were nowhere near as quick and fatal as the gun. The problem here was that, only the white strangers had guns and decided which tribal group to support in times of battle. Any tribal group the white strangers supported with their powerful cannons, guns and ammunitions, easily conquered their enemies. This also created another major problem. The white strangers did not support any tribal group for free. In fact, the white strangers started demanding taxes (which included pieces of gold and prisoners of war) and total submission after victory. Any tribal group or community which failed to submit to the Europeans and pay taxes were wiped out. Sometimes the leaders of those communities were executed publicly as a form of warning to neighboring communities. Most communities in Africa were turned into concentration camps with European authorities in place.

In other words, my ancestors were not ready to give their own brothers and sisters out into slavery. In fact, most fought and died in battle just to save their communities from the hands of those white strangers. Rather, the white strangers were the ones who "demonically" manipulated my people by creating so much confusion between the various tribes and creating so many tribal wars all in an effort to get slaves. 

In Ghana for example, because the Ashanti empire was so powerful to defeat, the white strangers created so much confusion and so many wars between the Ashantis and the neighboring tribes and in most cases supplied some of those neighboring tribes with guns to enable them defeat the Ashantis. The white strangers continued this until they were able to defeat the Ashantis and took away the king of the Ashantis (Nana Prempeh I) and the queen mother (Nana Yaa Asantewaa) and several others into exile just to break the Ashanti kingdom apart even after slavery so they could colonize and control the Ashanti gold,etc._

_To conclude, my ancestors did not sell their own brothers and sisters into slavery just like that. They were deceived and "demonically" manipulated by those white strangers who visited our land."_

Africans did NOT sell their own people into slavery


----------



## IM2 (May 3, 2022)

Juicin said:


> There were millenia of muslim rule before that too
> 
> Yet we are by far the biggest group of humans on the planet
> 
> ...


Yeah right. You couldn't get a job in India because it's a shithole so you get U.S. government help and come over here talking stupid. Go cook some N'aan chump.


----------



## IM2 (May 3, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> The guys who shot Arbery have gone to prison for life.. including the poor fool who was only holding the camera and didn't have the good sense to hit erase.
> 
> My point was, when you have a drive by shooting, dozens of witnesses, and no one sees nothing, and the cops eventually have to toss it into the "Don't give a crap" docket.
> 
> ...


And my point is that whites made crime a business with some police participating in it. There a rural all white towns I avoid and if I am driving I make sure I have the gas necessary not to stop in them. Funny how you mention those 2 communities but there are families and businesses that have lived in both for quite some time safely. Meanwhile those who control the crime in Chicago live in nice plush "safe" white neighborhoods. And they pay lawyers top dollars to keep them in operation.


----------



## Juicin (May 3, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Really ? Part of the Indians worked for the British and helped then subjugate and kill other Indians. Africa is not one nation. So your story is removed from fact.
> 
> ALL RISE!
> 
> ...



You think some anecdote from one slave makes history?

Forts? That is not how the slave trade started. It started with Europeans bringing trinkets and trading Africans for people

Then they moved to arms

Then later they actually colonized Africa. At first, the vast majority of American blacks included, were traded for. Not captured by whites. Captured by blacks

So let's just be clear about the history here. Slave trade in western Africa was going LONG before Europeans got there. Your kin were the losers. The winners make statues in their ancestors honor. You were saved from a terrible terrible fate, and generations that are not your own faced the burden. All you've gotten is a cush fucking situation you want to bitch about. Reparations for what? Your life in Africa without the whites would be fucking terrible. American blacks control more wealth than any other group of Africans on the planet.


----------



## Juicin (May 3, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Yeah right. You couldn't get a job in India because it's a shithole so you get U.S. government help and come over here talking stupid. Go cook some N'aan chump.



Yea because us as the highest earning ethnic group in America are known for our inability to get a job? lol

The fuck are you talking about? 

Some black saying this to me, a brahmin, hahahah

So uppity


----------



## IM2 (May 3, 2022)

Juicin said:


> Yea because us as the highest earning ethnic group in America are known for our inability to get a job? lol
> 
> The fuck are you talking about?
> 
> ...


Yeah, H1B government assistance has been good to you. You ain't no Brahim son. You just a punk ass  Indian immigrant who got a H1B visa.


----------



## IM2 (May 3, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Frankly, if your life is so fragile that 250 members of Congress can destroy it, that says a lot about dependency.
> 
> My own interaction with the Federal Government has been kind of limited since I hung up the fatigues.  I pay my taxes every year, I got a VA loan once, and... that's about it.   Sure, they will fuck up the economy, but they fuck that up for everyone.


You don't seem to understand the impact of law and policy. 7 white men made it possible for apartheid to happen in America. Those seven men ruined the lives of generations of blacks directly and what they did even affects blacks today.


----------



## IM2 (May 3, 2022)

Juicin said:


> You think some anecdote from one slave makes history?
> 
> Forts? That is not how the slave trade started. It started with Europeans bringing trinkets and trading Africans for people
> 
> ...


I think that the testimony of an African based on recorded African history means something. And the way he described it is the way Africans I have met from all over Africa describe it. So your story is fake news. So go put a dot on your forehead because you're the white supremacists little brown bitch.


----------



## IM2 (May 3, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Frankly, if your life is so fragile that 250 members of Congress can destroy it, that says a lot about dependency.
> 
> My own interaction with the Federal Government has been kind of limited since I hung up the fatigues.  I pay my taxes every year, I got a VA loan once, and... that's about it.   Sure, they will fuck up the economy, but they fuck that up for everyone.


Joe, let me give you credit for at least trying to have a civil discussion. We don't agree but at least you aren't getting stupid.


----------



## Juicin (May 3, 2022)

IM2 said:


> I think that the testimony of an African based on recorded African history means something. And the way he described it is the way Africans I have met from all over Africa describe it. So your story is fake news. So go put a dot on your forehead because you're the white supremacists little brown bitch.



Yea it means something in relation to his life and time.

Not the slave trade as a fucking whole

You can't just extrapolate one, presumably quality source, into a fucking whole non existent narrative. Like I said. You and I both know they make statues to the slave traders who sold you in Nigera. Don't pretend the whites did this to you. By our lifetime you have only reaped benefits from this situation.

To deny otherwise, just like me denying British Colonialism was good for Indians is insane. Indians could not have unified the billion people required to make modern India. Black Americans could not have gained even a small fraction of the wealth they have now in Africa. Those are facts.

Weakness to pretend otherwise. All that's left to do is take advantage of what the whites have GIVEN us. They didn't have to, they could have burned India and sent every black back to Africa.


----------



## IM2 (May 3, 2022)

Juicin said:


> Yea it means something in relation to his life and time.
> 
> Not the slave trade as a fucking whole
> 
> ...


Well since its not just one story I don't have to pretend. You are delusional and suffer from internalized racism. India prospered before whites showed up. Africa was doing quite fine before colonization. You're making me laugh with the way you suck white racist buttholes.

_“One major author on the slave trade (appropriately titled Sins of Our Fathers) explained how many white people urged him to state that the trade was the responsibility of African chiefs, and that Europeans merely turned up to buy captives- as though without European demand there would have been captives sitting on the beach by the millions! _*- Walter Rodney*


----------



## Westender (May 3, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Doesn't matter. You have 5 times everything needed to have zero crime but you commit the most.


Stupid response. I was in an Uber in DC a few weeks ago and an African Uber driver was telling me how they hate black Americans. He is a true African American because he has dual citizenship. He said they are religious, hardworking, family oriented and mostly peaceful people. He said black Americans are nothing like Africans and give them a bad name.


----------



## Juicin (May 3, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Well since its not just one story I don't have to pretend. You are delusional and suffer from internalized racism. India prospered before whites showed up. Africa was doing quite fine before colonization. You're making me laugh with the way you suck white racist buttholes.
> 
> _“One major author on the slave trade (appropriately titled Sins of Our Fathers) explained how many white people urged him to state that the trade was the responsibility of African chiefs, and that Europeans merely turned up to buy captives- as though without European demand there would have been captives sitting on the beach by the millions! _*- Walter Rodney*




Yea i'm sure they did. Doesn't change the reality

Why the fuck would whites go into a place they will catch diseases and die when they could just trade humans for goods at the shore? Not their way

Internalized racism...lol


----------



## IM2 (May 3, 2022)

Juicin,
You ran your mouth, posted all kinds of racial slurs and moderators have allowed you to get away with it. You talked shit to Paul. Paul has handled you guys with precision, so I won't be talking for him. But when your punk ass came at me, you  made a mistake. You are about to be made to understand that I'm the wrong...to fuck with.

Number one, you ass is over here thanks to the government. If not for the American government your ass would be over in New Delhi worshipping cattle. So you need to humble yourself real quick.

Dr Shashi Tharoor MP - Britain Does Owe Reparations​
YOUR people are demanding reparations. Apparently they don't agree with your assessment of how they could not have done anything without the white mans help.

And I'm sure they found great benefit from whites taking that 45 trillion the British have robbed them of.

How much money did Britain take away from India? About $45 trillion in 173 years, says top economist​*Patnaik, in her essay published in Columbia University Press recently, said Britain drained out over $45 trillion from India, which to date has hampered the country's ability to come out of poverty.*​








						How much money did Britain take away from India? About $45 trillion in 173 years, says top economist
					

Renowned economist Utsa Patnaik, who has done a deep research on the fiscal relations between Colonial India and Britain, has tried to answer one particular question every Indian seems to be interested in knowing -- how much money did Britishers take away




					www.businesstoday.in
				




Your self hate is your problem. But I'm a black man and proud of it. The legacy MY ancestors left was not the punk role. They fought to erase apartheid here. We fight to end modern racism The fight will continue until whites who practice racism learn that remaking racism in order to continue practicing it is not acceptable.  Because if not for us, your Indian ass would not have what you do right now. Learn that before you put your turban on next time.


----------



## IM2 (May 3, 2022)

Westender said:


> Stupid response. I was in an Uber in DC a few weeks ago and an African Uber driver was telling me how they hate black Americans. He is a true African American because he has dual citizenship. He said they are religious, hardworking, family oriented and mostly peaceful people. He said black Americans are nothing like Africans and give them a bad name.


It's the truth. And you can't face  it. The stupid response is the "there are 5 times more of us" as if because there are more of you, you get to commit more crime. Don't tell me that tired ass whitebread story about the African you met who hates American blacks. And don''t try whitesplaining to me what a real African American is because I am one. My designation is just like irish americans, italian americans etc.  I know too many Africans to read some shit from a white scrub who has posted nothing but racist screeds.


----------



## Paul Essien (May 3, 2022)

Your writing was just you babbling again. But I just want to address the only point you made that's was worth responding to

JoeB131
*If there's a drive by in Chicago, nobody saw nothing.*

That because a lot of the shooting (_Not all_) in Chicago are doing by the white supremacists and they blame it on black people


Chicago Police Officers were sentenced for their involvement in criminal activities including 30 murders. Cops in Chicago are some of the biggest thugs n that city. How many times have we heard about Black Op sites n straight up criminal behavior of the CPD ?

There is no way possible that in the 3rd largest city in America. The most powerful nation on earth; that multiple killings can happen this often without some dirty cops being involved.

City taxes pay for camera’s on every block but when a shooting takes place, no one is in custody, nor do they have leads.

There are no places you can walk in Chicago or go without being on tape. None. It's probably the most heavily surveillanced city in the world.

So tell me about arrests made ? Charged made ? Leads they have ?

I've been to Rogers Park, North Side. Roscoe Village, Northwest Side. Portage Park (Portage Park, Six Corners), Central, Near North, and Near South Side.

Questions ?
_"Yeah but but ...blacks have a "no snitch code"....I mean don't blks say snitches get stiches ?"_

All several hundred witnesses to these shootings r not keeping silent out of a silly ass no snitch code. No snitch code goes out the window when little children are being killed. U saw how fast the black community came forward in the murder of Tyshawn Lee ?

Even a jailhouse, convicted felon came forward and turned the killer in. Because there is no one standing for that.

Chicago will be ground zero of the Biden test run to see how American society reacts to government sponsored genocide of black people. They are being enacted by mercenaries, law enforcement operatives and supported by the 4th estate (white media) to propagandize it as black on black violence

But I find it funny that a white man telling a a black man about black violence in Chicago when it was white men who got violence ball rolling in Chicago.

People like Al Capone ? John Dillinger ? Pretty Boy Floyd ? Baby Face Nelson ? Events like the Valentine’s Day Massacre ? But those white people are applauded, romanticized as heroes and have films and documentaries made about them. Funny that eh ?

JoeB131









						15 injured in Chicago drive-by shooting at funeral for man killed in drive-by shooting | CNN
					

Fifteen people were shot in a drive-by shooting in Chicago on Tuesday at a funeral for a victim of another drive-by shooting, Chicago Police said.




					www.cnn.com
				




*Funerals are considered off limits when it comes to gang violence.*

And once again they say "_please come forward or submit a tip anonymously"_.

The police can't find these fellas ? Really ? The white man who can tell you the precise location of a star million of light years away. The white man who can get the bones of a dinosaur millions of years old and find out what it ate for breakfast........ but he can't find some guys that do a drive by of a funeral in the most heavily survellianced city on the planet ?

And people with child like mindset like yourself belive them.

Let these supposed super elusive James Bond black gangbangers do a drive by in Beverly Hills ? 

All of sudden their dumb Barney Fife act they put on to black killings in Chicago _"Hey I mean we don't no who shot those blks,....we think it's gangbangers .....we don't know but u come forward with information and we'll sure as look into it"_






All of a sudden they'll catch them before the bullet has even hit anyone


----------



## JoeB131 (May 3, 2022)

IM2 said:


> And my point is that whites made crime a business with some police participating in it. There a rural all white towns I avoid and if I am driving I make sure I have the gas necessary not to stop in them. Funny how you mention those 2 communities but there are families and businesses that have lived in both for quite some time safely. Meanwhile those who control the crime in Chicago live in nice plush "safe" white neighborhoods. And they pay lawyers top dollars to keep them in operation.



If you really want to go there... how many people were murdered in those rural communities last year.  

Chicago had 797 homicides last year.  

Not sure what you mean by those who "control" the crime?  You mean the gang leaders? The Mafia?  City Hall?  Or do you mean the police.  



IM2 said:


> You don't seem to understand the impact of law and policy. 7 white men made it possible for apartheid to happen in America. Those seven men ruined the lives of generations of blacks directly and what they did even affects blacks today.



If you mean Plessy, yes, that was a bad decision...  But it only confirmed practices already in place.


----------



## JoeB131 (May 3, 2022)

Okay, man, Paul... you are just coming off as crazier and crazier...

I almost feel bad about enabling you



Paul Essien said:


> That because a lot of the shooting (_Not all_) in Chicago are doing by the white supremacists and they blame it on black people



Um, okay, I knew it was ONLY a matter of time before you went into conspiracy theories.  



Paul Essien said:


> Chicago Police Officers were sentenced for their involvement in criminal activities including 30 murders. Cops in Chicago are some of the biggest thugs n that city. How many times have we heard about Black Op sites n straight up criminal behavior of the CPD ?
> 
> There is no way possible that in the 3rd largest city in America. The most powerful nation on earth; that multiple killings can happen this often without some dirty cops being involved.
> 
> ...



Actually, we've only got 30,000 City Cameras.  Most of them for controlling traffic.   We have 3 million people. Simple math. that's one camera for every 100 people. I mean, good luck if you happen to catch one committing a crime.  



Paul Essien said:


> People like Al Capone ? John Dillinger ? Pretty Boy Floyd ? Baby Face Nelson ? Events like the Valentine’s Day Massacre ? But those white people are applauded, romanticized as heroes and have films and documentaries made about them. Funny that eh ?



Okay... here's the thing.  You know why Capone and Dillinger are romanticized?  Well, in Capone's case, it was because he broke a law that nearly everyone thought was stupid. Dillinger got folk hero status for robbing banks at a time when Banks had made EVERYONE'S lives miserable.  But you'll see "White Supremacy" in everything (Ray accused me of that, but you are an actual example.) 




Paul Essien said:


> Chicago will be ground zero of the Biden test run to see how American society reacts to government sponsored genocide of black people. They are being enacted by mercenaries, law enforcement operatives and supported by the 4th estate (white media) to propagandize it as black on black violence





Paul Essien said:


> Funerals are considered off limits when it comes to gang violence.



Right, because we all know that gang banger, people who poison their communities with drugs, murder people with impunity, rob, steal loot, they have this special reverence for funerals.  Must have been some secret Klan members!!!


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 3, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> That because a lot of the shooting (_Not all_) in Chicago are doing by the white supremacists and they blame it on black people


----------



## Paul Essien (May 3, 2022)

JoeB131
*Actually, we've only got 30,000 City Cameras. Most of them for controlling traffic. We have 3 million people. Simple math. that's one camera for every 100 people. I mean, good luck if you happen to catch one committing a crime.*

Debating with you is a bit like fighting with Zombies....no matter how times you slap em down ...they still keep coming

Let black people go into Beverly Hills and start shooting up there and then let's see how incredibly hard the police would find it to catch them.

You know perfectly well the police wouldn't be _"Well ya know, we've only 30,000 cams....and that's for traffic and that one cam for 100 people"_

They'd find them and they'd find them very quickly. See now your trolling

JoeB131
*Okay... here's the thing. You know why Capone and Dillinger are romanticized? Well, in Capone's case, it was because he broke a law that nearly everyone thought was stupid. Dillinger got folk hero status for robbing banks at a time when Banks had made EVERYONE'S lives miserable. But you'll see "White Supremacy" in everything (Ray accused me of that, but you are an actual example.)*

You're Italian American ...aren't you ?

But let's romantize Al Capone and the mafia (Costa Nostra) were

*There has never been any rule in Sicilian mafia that bans killing of women and children.*

If they have to be murdered, then they have to be. It doesn’t matter how young a child is or who the woman is, if they are the ones who have to be killed, they will be. Any method will do: acid bath, fire, shooting, strangulation, knifing, bombs.

The murder is the message.

The Mafia (Cosa Nostra) were most of those guys had killed at least one individual. They had to. You do not enter this organisation without participating in a murder. Later it became enough to participate in murder, chop up the body, help to kill the victim by holding or setting up the actual murder.

That alone puts the number of their murder victims in thousands. And that number is just their murders and just by the Italian American crime. This does not include murders committed by their associates and non-members who were and are involved in that business.

Add to this the drug trade which they have had a huge say in since the 1930’s.

How many people died during those decades from over doses and other drug related reasons?

Thousands at least.

Add to that the massive commercial thievery, lone sharking, gambling, numbers, prostitution, porn, labour unions, corruption of politicians, judges, judicial systems in several cities, Hollywood and forgery, robberies, transportation, fashion industry, clothing industry, waste management etc.

And as I say what happens with these white killers ? They're shown as cool, as edgy, as stylish. Goodfellas ? Untouchables ? The Sopraonos ? Untouchables ? Godfather ?

White people are always trying to humanize white killers. Every week there is some documentary on a Jeffery Dalhmer, a John Gacy, a Ted Bundy, a Richard Ramirez always talking about their chilhood and how _"there parents never loved them"_ and how _"they were bullied"_

See that's the difference between whtes and blacks. We call out our savages. We don't co sign them. Where as you give your savages soft ball interviews and a platform and make films about them and write books about them.

Ted Bundy used to slit 14 year old girls from their vaginas to their throat but go to 1.05 in this video and see the way the white sentencing judge was grovelling and apologetic to this psycho when he gave Bundy the death sentence.



It's very funny how you promoting the idea of black criminality somehow forget all that

JoeB131
*Right, because we all know that gang banger, people who poison their communities with drugs, murder people with impunity, rob, steal loot, they have this special reverence for funerals. Must have been some secret Klan members!!!*

Now you are projecting


----------



## Westender (May 4, 2022)

IM2 said:


> It's the truth. And you can't face  it. The stupid response is the "there are 5 times more of us" as if because there are more of you, you get to commit more crime. Don't tell me that tired ass whitebread story about the African you met who hates American blacks. And don''t try whitesplaining to me what a real African American is because I am one. My designation is just like irish americans, italian americans etc.  I know too many Africans to read some shit from a white scrub who has posted nothing but racist screeds.


What is whiteplaining, more of your ebonics


----------



## AZrailwhale (May 4, 2022)

Westender said:


> What is whiteplaining, more of your ebonics


Obviously hes singing his usual bullshit of everything being whites fault.


----------



## JoeB131 (May 4, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Debating with you is a bit like fighting with Zombies....no matter how times you slap em down ...they still keep coming
> 
> Let black people go into Beverly Hills and start shooting up there and then let's see how incredibly hard the police would find it to catch them.
> 
> ...



If some gangbangers shot up Beverly Hills, you'd have a hundred witnesses describing them... and ready to testify. 

Some gangbangers shoot up some other gangbangers, nobody saw nothing!  

Hey, have they ever solved the murders of Biggie Smalls and Tupac yet?  Nobody saw nothing. 




Paul Essien said:


> You're Italian American ...aren't you ?
> 
> But let's romantize Al Capone and the mafia (Costa Nostra) were



Actually, I'm mostly German.  

and I will admit, that the romanticizing of organized crime is something that never should have happened, and Hollywood should be ashamed of itself. 

But as stated, the main reason WHY it gained a foothold was because of a truly dumb government policy (Prohibition).   The Mob gave people what they wanted... until the government finally realized it was a terrible idea and the mob moved on to other pursuits (Drugs, Prostitution, gambling). 



Paul Essien said:


> See that's the difference between whtes and blacks. We call out our savages. We don't co sign them. Where as you give your savages soft ball interviews and a platform and make films about them and write books about them.



You call out your savages? Really?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 4, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Obviously hes singing his usual bullshit of everything being whites fault.



It's funny though.  Most of the drive-by's in Chicago are white supremacists that never get caught, and they blame it on blacks?  I mean really.  What kind of dope do you have to be using to think up of something like that?  

Then they can't figure out why nobody can take them seriously.


----------



## Paul Essien (May 4, 2022)

JoeB131
*If some gangbangers shot up Beverly Hills, you'd have a hundred witnesses describing them... and ready to testify.*

So by that logic if black people went into Beverly Hills n shot up whites in a drive by and there were no witnesses are you saying the police would not be able to catch them ?

JoeB131
*Some gangbangers shoot up some other gangbangers, nobody saw nothing*

Again. You're just repeating what you ve already wrote and I answered this point previously. After I write a thought-out post showing how you're wrong, you'll come back in a few days later when you think I've forgotten and then repeat your main point again as if you didn't lose at all.

That seems to be your tactic.

JoeB131
*You call out your savages? Really?*

Again. Your repeating the same point you made about George Floyd previously

Once a person gets a certain idea into their mind, it is hard to get it out of their mind…..People like you lack the ability to think rationally and probably send a lot of time watching TV and believe everything you see on TV.

JoeB131
*Actually, I'm mostly German.*

And Germany is a bit of slum these days. I've been there and most of Europe.

JoeB131
*and I will admit, that the romanticizing of organized crime is something that never should have happened, and Hollywood should be ashamed of itself.*

Right.

JoeB131
*But as stated, the main reason WHY it gained a foothold was because of a truly dumb government policy (Prohibition).*

It was because the mafia were white. That's the reason why it goined a foothold.

JoeB131
*Hey, have they ever solved the murders of Biggie Smalls and Tupac yet? Nobody saw nothing.*

Listen to this guy. He can't even get his hip hop stereotypes up to date.


----------



## AZrailwhale (May 4, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> JoeB131
> *If some gangbangers shot up Beverly Hills, you'd have a hundred witnesses describing them... and ready to testify.*
> 
> So by that logic if black people went into Beverly Hills n shot up whites in a drive by and there were no witnesses are you saying the police would not be able to catch them ?
> ...


The Mafia gained a foothold for the same reason the Latino and Black drug gangs gained a foothold.  Unlimited amounts of money to bribe cops. prosecutors, judges and public officials.  Not to mention being willing to use violence to further their aims.  The Cartels have a phrase for it "plomo o plata" lead or silver. In other words take the bribe or die.


----------



## AZrailwhale (May 4, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> JoeB131
> *If some gangbangers shot up Beverly Hills, you'd have a hundred witnesses describing them... and ready to testify.*
> 
> So by that logic if black people went into Beverly Hills n shot up whites in a drive by and there were no witnesses are you saying the police would not be able to catch them ?
> ...


At the time Italians weren't considered white, neither were the Irish and Jews.


----------



## JoeB131 (May 4, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> So by that logic if black people went into Beverly Hills n shot up whites in a drive by and there were no witnesses are you saying the police would not be able to catch them ?



Uh, you and logic aren't even in the same Zip Code.  

Obviously, people can get away with murder... Just look at OJ and Robert Blake.  But they usually don't get away with it when there are dozens of witnesses... unless they didn't see nothin'  




Paul Essien said:


> Again. You're just repeating what you ve already wrote and I answered this point previously. After I write a thought-out post showing how you're wrong, you'll come back in a few days later when you think I've forgotten and then repeat your main point again as if you didn't lose at all.



A crazy post saying "White Supremacists" shot up that funeral?   Were they the same White Supremacists who beat up Juicy Smollet?  



Paul Essien said:


> Again. Your repeating the same point you made about George Floyd previously
> 
> Once a person gets a certain idea into their mind, it is hard to get it out of their mind…..People like you lack the ability to think rationally and probably send a lot of time watching TV and believe everything you see on TV.



I just point out the observance.  Yes, it was tragic that Floyd died, but he certainly doesn't merit canonization.   



Paul Essien said:


> And Germany is a bit of slum these days. I've been there and most of Europe.





Paul Essien said:


> It was because the mafia were white. That's the reason why it goined a foothold.



Well, that and it provides services people want.  Legalize prostitution, legalize drugs, legalize gambling, you'd be amazed how fast what little is left of the Mafia would go away. 



Paul Essien said:


> Listen to this guy. He can't even get his hip hop stereotypes up to date.



I don't pay enough attention to Hip Hop to know who has been offing who... I just think it's funny when it happens.


----------



## Paul Essien (May 4, 2022)

JoeB131 
*I don't pay enough attention to Hip Hop to know who has been offing who... I just think it's funny when it happens*.

Well you are an older senile man. So I'll give you a pass.

JoeB131 
*Well, that and it provides services people want. Legalize prostitution, legalize drugs, legalize gambling, you'd be amazed how fast what little is left of the Mafia would go away.*

Many white men want to have sex with underage boys and gisls. What's your point ?

JoeB131 
*A crazy post saying "White Supremacists" shot up that funeral? *

My father always said the meanest people on earth were white People and that they are products of what is known as INVOLUTION which is the opposite of EVOLUTION.

Only a soul can make you a HUE-man and we use our pineal glands to connect with our souls. They don’t poison them, starve them and drop bombs on them and all that done from a people who have done nothing to them

When you look at black history it's almost like we are dealing with another species. So white supremacist shooting up a black funeral is light work

JoeB131 
*I just point out the observance. Yes, it was tragic that Floyd died, but he certainly doesn't merit canonization*.

You're just repeating what you have already wrote. 

JoeB131 
*Obviously, people can get @away with murder..*

I'm not talking about other murders that people have got away with. I was talking about the fact that you wrote

JoeB131 
_"If some gangbangers shot up Beverly Hills, you'd have a hundred witnesses describing them... and ready to testif_y"

So if that's the case then you must think if black people were to do a drive by in beverly hills and shoot up whites and there were no witnesses. They would get away with murder

JoeB131 
*"Just look at OJ and Robert Blake. But they usually don't get away with it when there are dozens of witnesses... unless they didn't see nothin'*

OK. Let's not try and derail the argument here. Let's not do that. Stay on the subject if you are able to. So let's *SLOW WALK* this. So go back to what you wrote about Beverly Hills and answer the question


----------



## IM2 (May 4, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> At the time Italians weren't considered white, neither were the Irish and Jews.



But they turned white just in time to enforce jim crow.


----------



## IM2 (May 4, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> The Mafia gained a foothold for the same reason the Latino and Black drug gangs gained a foothold.  Unlimited amounts of money to bribe cops. prosecutors, judges and public officials.  Not to mention being willing to use violence to further their aims.  The Cartels have a phrase for it "plomo o plata" lead or silver. In other words take the bribe or die.


There is no black and latino gang that is the equivalent of the mafia.


----------



## IM2 (May 4, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


>


That does happen in some cases. And whites do actually shoot each other in Chicago.


----------



## MarathonMike (May 4, 2022)

IM2 said:


> There is no black and latino gang that is the equivalent of the mafia.


There we go! The drug cartels are no problem  but the "Mafia" is the real problem. So provide a link supporting your theory that the real problem isn't MS-13 and the Mexican Cartels, it is the Italian Mafia.


----------



## IM2 (May 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> If you really want to go there... how many people were murdered in those rural communities last year.
> 
> Chicago had 797 homicides last year.
> 
> ...


Don't play stupid Joe. Chicago was not the number 1 city in killing nor is it in the top 10 most dangerous. 

Joe, whites such as yourself run off at the mouth about 1 kind of killing and want us to jump on that upon your command. I think it's time you went to school.

ALL RISE!

Todays lesson:

*797 Homicides in Chicago Equal approximately 1 Days Worth of the Number of Blacks Who Die Each Day From Health Problems Caused by White Racism.*

On June 3, 2020, SAMHSA’s Office of Behavioral Health Equity published a report titled, _“Trauma, Racism, Chronic Stress and the Health of Black Americans.”_ They found that racism contributed to poor mental health and chronic physical health problems.

_ “Racism and associated trauma and violence contribute to mental health disorders, particularly depression, anxiety and PTSD, and chronic health conditions such as cardiovascular disease, hypertension, diabetes, maternal mortality/infant mortality and morbidity in African Americans. Racism is considered a fundamental cause of adverse health outcomes for racial/ethnic minorities and racial/ethnic inequities in health. The primary domains of racism - structural/institutional racism, cultural racism, and individual-level discrimination— are linked to mental and physical health outcomes. Racism and violence targeting a specific community is increasingly associated with complex trauma and intergenerational trauma, all of which have physical and behavioral health consequences.”_ 

Studies show that consistent exposure to adversity and marginalization causes early health declines in black Americans. Racism is a stressor that triggers the body into allostasis or better understood, and racism forces the body to adapt to stress. Allostasis is the process that helps us adapt to stress. Allostatic load is compiled damage to the body due to constant pressure. Such stress leads to allostatic overload, which is the point when the overall amount of stress causes health problems or death. For example, allostatic processes lead to increases in blood pressure, a leading cause of death in the black community. Allostatic overload created by stress caused due to constant exposure to racism increases the occurrences of myocardial infarction in blacks.

Simply put, a myocardial infarction is a heart attack. In 2014, “_Structural racism and myocardial infarction in the United States,”_ a study by Alicia Lukachko, Mark Hatzenbuehler, & Katherine Keyes, was published in Social Science and Medicine Journal. Their research showed that structural racism was one cause of heart attacks in black people.

You have stated that 797 homicides occurred in Chicago last year, 

According to the American Heart Association, hypertension-related deaths in the black community increased from 171,259 to 270,839 annually from 2000-2018. According to these numbers, 739 blacks die each day from stress related hypertension. You guys talk about murder, but white racism is killing way more blacks than what you decide to use for an example. Blacks see the 2021 Chicago homicide rate every day and other blacks aren't doing the killing.

You will probably dismiss this, and try to claim something else causes the hypertension, but I am black and know what happens to a persons body when they experience white racism and consistently see acts of it. 739 people per day and those are black lives that matter who we are trying to save.


----------



## IM2 (May 4, 2022)

MarathonMike said:


> There we go! The drug cartels are no problem  but the "Mafia" is the real problem. So provide a link supporting your theory that the real problem isn't MS-13 and the Mexican Cartels, it is the Italian Mafia.


No I won't. The Mafia does business with those cartels.


----------



## AZrailwhale (May 4, 2022)

IM2 said:


> There is no black and latino gang that is the equivalent of the mafia.


You're kidding right?  You haven't heard of MS-13, Nuevo Laredo Cartel, Sinaloa Cartel, Medellin Cartel, Gulf Cartel, Los Zetas, Juarez Cartel for Latino gangs?  How about the Crips and the Bloods for Black gangs?  Those are just the big ones that come immediately to mind.


----------



## AZrailwhale (May 4, 2022)

IM2 said:


> But they turned white just in time to enforce jim crow.


Jim Crow was mostly enforced by WASPs and mostly in the Southern states.  The southern racists hated Wops, Micks and Kikes at least as much as they hated Blacks.  They probably hated them more than they hated wetbacks.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 4, 2022)

IM2 said:


> That does happen in some cases. And whites do actually shoot each other in Chicago.



From time to time I'm sure.  It's no different here than any other city.  Black gangs get involved in drugs and kill each other.  Blacks have what I call the code of stupidity.  Somebody kills a person and nobody seen a thing.  Blacks want to take care of their own problems themselves.  So then a gang or family member of the deceased goes out and kills somebody from the shooters gang or family member to get even.  Then it goes back and forth until the police figure out one of the murders, arrest the guy, and the killing stops for a while.


----------



## MarathonMike (May 4, 2022)

IM2 said:


> No I won't. The Mafia does business with those cartels.


Busted IM2 loses again.


----------



## MarathonMike (May 4, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Don't play stupid Joe. Chicago was not the number 1 city in killing nor is it in the top 10 most dangerous.
> 
> Joe, whites such as yourself run off at the mouth about 1 kind of killing and want us to jump on that upon your command. I think it's time you went to school.
> 
> ...


How many hundreds of times are you going to regurgitate this nonsense? This is all you got? Some bogus study on "death by racism" that you obsess about constantly. You are a sad, angry little man,.


----------



## IM2 (May 4, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> You're kidding right?  You haven't heard of MS-13, Nuevo Laredo Cartel, Sinaloa Cartel, Medellin Cartel, Gulf Cartel, Los Zetas, Juarez Cartel for Latino gangs?  How about the Crips and the Bloods for Black gangs?  Those are just the big ones that come immediately to mind.


There are more white gangs and the Mafia works with all those gangs.


----------



## IM2 (May 4, 2022)

MarathonMike said:


> How many hundreds of times are you going to regurgitate this nonsense? This is all you got? Some bogus study on "death by racism" that you obsess about constantly. You are a sad, angry little man,.


It real son. You are a sad angry delusional little white racist man.


----------



## IM2 (May 4, 2022)

MarathonMike said:


> Busted IM2 loses again.


Nope. It's reality. None of those gangs own trucking companies.


----------



## IM2 (May 4, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Jim Crow was mostly enforced by WASPs and mostly in the Southern states.  The southern racists hated Wops, Micks and Kikes at least as much as they hated Blacks.  They probably hated them more than they hated wetbacks.


Jim Crow was nationwide.


----------



## IM2 (May 4, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> From time to time I'm sure.  It's no different here than any other city.  Black gangs get involved in drugs and kill each other.  Blacks have what I call the code of stupidity.  Somebody kills a person and nobody seen a thing.  Blacks want to take care of their own problems themselves.  So then a gang or family member of the deceased goes out and kills somebody from the shooters gang or family member to get even.  Then it goes back and forth until the police figure out one of the murders, arrest the guy, and the killing stops for a while.


Whites organize crime and made it corporate. Some even employ police.


----------



## MarathonMike (May 4, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Nope. It's reality. None of those gangs own trucking companies.


More fiction out the mind of an obsessed racist. You shovel a lot of shit and never provide evidence that supports your nonsense. Oh, except for Left wing professors who feed you studies that get you all excited.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 4, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Whites organize crime and made it corporate. Some even employ police.



Yes they did.  Not so much now of course.  Cleveland used to be a big mob town.  In fact one of my first jobs was a company owned by the mob.  But the mob was not always a bad thing. They used to keep neighborhoods safe.  Look at Vegas.  When the mob ran it, it was a safe prosperous town.  After the government ran them out, it pretty much went to hell.  Murders, robberies, casino cheats.  The mob never allowed that kind of shit to go on.


----------



## MarathonMike (May 4, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yes they did.  Not so much now of course.  Cleveland used to be a big mob town.  In fact one of my first jobs was a company owned by the mob.  But the mob was not always a bad thing. They used to keep neighborhoods safe.  Look at Vegas.  When the mob ran it, it was a safe prosperous town.  After the government ran them out, it pretty much went to hell.  Murders, robberies, casino cheats.  The mob never allowed that kind of shit to go on.


Just like with everything else, IM2 thinks it's 1960.


----------



## Stormlover (May 4, 2022)

*It's feminism. *
Destruction of the family
Removing fathers from the life of the child

Young men aren't getting raised right and that is resulting in a lot of pain.


----------



## IM2 (May 4, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yes they did.  Not so much now of course.  Cleveland used to be a big mob town.  In fact one of my first jobs was a company owned by the mob.  But the mob was not always a bad thing. They used to keep neighborhoods safe.  Look at Vegas.  When the mob ran it, it was a safe prosperous town.  After the government ran them out, it pretty much went to hell.  Murders, robberies, casino cheats.  The mob never allowed that kind of shit to go on.


They do it as much now as they ever did. They did not keep neighborhoods safe. The mob was killing robbing and cheating. That's why they are the mob.


----------



## IM2 (May 5, 2022)

MarathonMike said:


> Just like with everything else, IM2 thinks it's 1960.


Wrong. You think that everything ended in the 1960's. But racism still exists. You are an example.


----------



## MarathonMike (May 5, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Wrong. You think that everything ended in the 1960's. But racism still exists. You are an example.


As I have posted NUMEROUS TIMES, individual racism still exists. You are the prime example of racism on USMB. Your entire life revolves around racism. I truly feel sorry for you.


----------



## IM2 (May 5, 2022)

MarathonMike said:


> More fiction out the mind of an obsessed racist. You shovel a lot of shit and never provide evidence that supports your nonsense. Oh, except for Left wing professors who feed you studies that get you all excited.


Yes what you post is racist fiction. I've presented facts. You choose to lie to yourself. So what exactly have you done to honor the memory of this child whose name you use to post your racist opinion of blacks?


----------



## IM2 (May 5, 2022)

MarathonMike said:


> As I have posted NUMEROUS TIMES, individual racism still exists. You are the prime example of racism on USMB. Your entire life revolves around racism. I truly feel sorry for you.


Systemic racism exists as well as individual. Individual racists work in the system idiot. No, I'm not the prime example of racism here. I laugh when whites trash starts telling me how my life revolves around racism. It's easy to be white and make dumbfuck comments like that thinking you make sense when in reality you look like a dumb ass. I feel sorry for you. You're a racist and you have deluded yourself into believing that you're not even as you post racism daily. I'm about stopping racism. That is a top priority for about 99.99999999 percent of the black people in America.


----------



## Paul Essien (May 5, 2022)

AZrailwhale
*The Mafia gained a foothold for the same reason the Latino and Black drug gangs gained a foothold. Unlimited amounts of money to bribe cops. prosecutors, judges and public officials. Not to mention being willing to use violence to further their aims. The Cartels have a phrase for it "plomo o plata" lead or silver. In other words take the bribe or die.*

The mafia gained a foothold because there white.

*There's no such thing as a black drug gang. *

The black gangs you speak are street level dealers  who are nothing but bullet fodder and a source of income for those who gain jobs in the prisons.

The distributors of these drugs are white and non black. That's were the real money is. The black dealers work for organized crime moving the product around the neighbourhoods. In order to sell these drugs, you have to have a distributor. There may be a few black distributors, but they few and far between. They are working for the higher up organized crime folk

The distributors live in communities divorced from the street level dealers. They are almost never caught. If a black dealer, goes down, there is always another to take their place.


----------



## Paul Essien (May 5, 2022)

MarathonMike said:


> As I have posted NUMEROUS TIMES, individual racism still exists. You are the prime example of racism on USMB. Your entire life revolves around racism. I truly feel sorry for you.


Says the person who likes to post about black children being killed

Got it.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 5, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> WTF are you talking about no evidence?  You don't know the first thing about CCWs or the laws, that's what I'm basing my opinion on.  If you told me you were a doctor and recommend putting a band aid on a bullet wound, then yes, I'm liable to believe you are no doctor at all because no doctor would ever make such a recommendation.  If you told me you were a music teacher that taught timing was unimportant in music, I would say you're no music teacher at all because I was a music teacher, and timing is the most important factor when learning a musical instrument.
> 
> What you told me is that CCW holders are taught to carry a gun but never use a gun for self-defense.  THAT'S WHAT CCW'S ARE FOR, TO USE FOR SELF-DEFENSE!  You didn't even know the basic law which is an attacker doesn't need to be using deadly force against you to legally use that firearm for self-defense.
> 
> Nobody with a CCW permit would ever say anything close to what you stated.  They wouldn't have been able to pass the written test with that lack of knowledge.


Okay, so now you're going to blame me because you misinterpreted what I wrote? 

The post below means I also have a Florida concealed carry permit (like George Zimmerman) and I am correct that it is not the permit itself that allows any of the things you say it does.  The laws governing the carrying of a concealed "weapon" is a separate law from the laws governing self-defense and each is independent of the other. 

No where did I state what you claim, that "CCW holders are taught to carry a gun but never use a gun for self-defense"






Then you go to attempting to ridicule me saying yes a concealed carry permit SAYS you have the right to use deadly force blah blah blah.  It SAYS no such thing, it's the self-defense laws of each state that say under what circumstances lethal force can be used.




I suspect what you did is simply remember that they taught you the laws in your CCW training class and then forgot or never even realized that the laws they were teaching you about were the specific self-defense laws not the CCW laws since you don't seem to remember much about them.  The CCW laws deal with things like 1) eligibility requirements, 2) things that disqualify you from being issued a license, 3) grounds under which the state can revoke your license, 4) license renewals, 5) obtaining a duplicate license in case you lose yours, 6) change of address etc.

OR it could be that the CCW laws in your state are different but the fact remains, I was discussing Florida concealed carry and self-defense laws.

So here we are with you accusing me of a lack of knowledge when my understanding of the subject matter is rather thorough, due to having actually traversed the system multiple times.  

Which makes you less knowledgeable because I don't recall you stating you have a Florida concealed carry permit but even if you do, you have demonstrated your lack of understanding of which laws are applicable to the topic.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 5, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> First, I don’t carry a gun and haven’t been following that aspect of the thread.
> 
> Second, yes…proportionate to their numbers, there are more hate crimes against Jews than against blacks. That means that a Jew is more likely to experience a hate crime than a black.
> 
> ...


When did you all arrive in this country?  And do you receive regular communications from the Department of Homeland Security about the trends in hate crimes?


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 5, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> At the time Italians weren't considered white, neither were the Irish and Jews.


Why do you think that is?  That white racists wouldn't consider other white people as being white?


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 5, 2022)

MarathonMike said:


> As I have posted NUMEROUS TIMES, individual racism still exists. You are the prime example of racism on USMB. Your entire life revolves around racism. I truly feel sorry for you.


No, systemic racism still exists.  There is no real way to get rid of it since everything from the inception of this country was built upon a white supremacist belief system.  The laws, the court cases, the police systems, public and government policies, social mores, etc.  It's like a vine that has tendrils throughout the entire system.

When the Civil Rights Acts of 1964 was passed, ALL it did was say "this is no longer lawful" but then, just like with any law, individuals are FREE to comply with them or not and when you are born as a member of the ruling class which had the lawful right of dominion over an entire nother race, no one was going to give that up, at least not willingly.

Look at the people on this message board.  They assert their mythical rights of superiority over others every friggin day.  They don't even care that most of their claims cannot be substantiated, generally because they're false, but that doesn't keep them from repeating over and over again.


----------



## JoeB131 (May 5, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> My father always said the meanest people on earth were white People and that they are products of what is known as INVOLUTION which is the opposite of EVOLUTION.
> 
> Only a soul can make you a HUE-man and we use our pineal glands to connect with our souls. They don’t poison them, starve them and drop bombs on them and all that done from a people who have done nothing to them
> 
> When you look at black history it's almost like we are dealing with another species. So white supremacist shooting up a black funeral is light work



Again, must have been those guys who beat up Jussie Smollet.  Those guys must be busy... 



Paul Essien said:


> OK. Let's not try and derail the argument here. Let's not do that. Stay on the subject if you are able to. So let's *SLOW WALK* this. So go back to what you wrote about Beverly Hills and answer the question



I wrote a very clear answer... I'm sorry you didn't understand it.  But you don't seem very bright.


----------



## JoeB131 (May 5, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Don't play stupid Joe. Chicago was not the number 1 city in killing nor is it in the top 10 most dangerous.
> 
> Joe, whites such as yourself run off at the mouth about 1 kind of killing and want us to jump on that upon your command. I think it's time you went to school.
> 
> ...



This is the kind of stuff that makes you look silly.  

The stuff you list happen because of poor diet and lack of exercise, not because "Oh, my Gosh, I'm stressing out because white people are mean to me!"  



IM2 said:


> According to the American Heart Association, hypertension-related deaths in the black community increased from 171,259 to 270,839 annually from 2000-2018. According to these numbers, 739 blacks die each day from stress related hypertension. You guys talk about murder, but white racism is killing way more blacks than what you decide to use for an example. Blacks see the 2021 Chicago homicide rate every day and other blacks aren't doing the killing.



So exercise more, stop eating greasy food, 

The reality is, Heart Disease and Cancer are the things that kill you because your body wears out.   Humans really weren't designed to live 60 years...  Most points in history, living to be 60 was an exception, not the rule.   (Neither of my parents lived to see sixty... two more days and I will!)


----------



## Lisa558 (May 5, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> When did you all arrive in this country?  And do you receive regular communications from the Department of Homeland Security about the trends in hate crimes?


THAT is your response to my sharing with you the horrific antisemitism - and loss of loved ones due to outright murder for their religion  - that my family ONE generation up from me suffered, and that despite that every one in the next generation went on to college and successful lives?!

Stop going back in history to excuse why the black poverty rate is double the whites. They need to concentrate on what they can do NOW to reduce it, and substantially, by simply not having the majority of babies OOW and finishing school.


----------



## JoeB131 (May 5, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> THAT is your response to my sharing with you the horrific antisemitism - and loss of loved ones due to outright murder for their religion - that my family ONE generation up from me suffered, and that despite that every one in the next generation went on to college and successful lives?!



But Hiiiiiiiiiitler!!!! 

Point is, Jews weren't discriminated against in THIS country.   You don't get credit for what happened in other countries.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 5, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Why do you think that is?  That white racists wouldn't consider other white people as being white?



At the time, no they didn't.  Also at the time, you didn't marry outside your religion unless you didn't care about being disowned by your family.  A lot of people were not happy if you married outside your ethnic background.  Things were entirely different many years ago.  That's why it's fruitless to dwell on those times.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 5, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Okay, so now you're going to blame me because you misinterpreted what I wrote?
> 
> The post below means I also have a Florida concealed carry permit (like George Zimmerman) and I am correct that it is not the permit itself that allows any of the things you say it does.  The laws governing the carrying of a concealed "weapon" is a separate law from the laws governing self-defense and each is independent of the other.
> 
> ...



I posted the Florida law (which mirrors ours here in Ohio) with a link.  Again, the law states deadly force is legally allowed to be used if you believe that you (or others) are in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death.  Zimmerman suffered serious bodily harm which warranted him to use deadly force against an unarmed attacker to stop the assault.  It wasn't a fist fight outside of a bar, it was a felonious assault attack.  

No, a CCW is not an administrative process, it's training of handling a gun in public, training on what the laws of your state and others (those with reciprocity with your state) are, range training and testing to make sure you know how to use that weapon.  You don't need 10 hours of class time to teach the application process and maintenance of a license.  The class is heavily focused on the laws, safety such as downrange (if you want to know what that means, ask) statistics on missed shots from X feet away, how you can be blinded by using your firearm at night from the gun powder flash, real stories and situations of other CCW holders using deadly force in the past and court rulings. 

Every time you comment on CCW licenses, it makes it more and more evident you have no CCW license at all and never have.  You just keep


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 5, 2022)

IM2 said:


> They do it as much now as they ever did. They did not keep neighborhoods safe. The mob was killing robbing and cheating. That's why they are the mob.



Yes they did.  Lowlifes were more scared of the mob than law abiding citizens.  They didn't mess around with those guys.  You cross one of them, you're liable to disappear off the planet and nobody ever see you again and they knew it. 

Here we had an all Italian section of town referred to as Murry Hill.  It was kind of a main street that went through that part of the city.  And of course, a lot of people from the mob lived there.  Safest place anybody could be.  You could walk down the streets day or night.  You can't do that today.  If you get robbed, assaulted or killed, all anybody can do is call the cops just like anyplace else.


----------



## JoeMoma (May 5, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yes they did.  Lowlifes were more scared of the mob than law abiding citizens.  They didn't mess around with those guys.  You cross one of them, you're liable to disappear off the planet and nobody ever see you again and they knew it.
> 
> Here we had an all Italian section of town referred to as Murry Hill.  It was kind of a main street that went through that part of the city.  And of course, a lot of people from the mob lived there.  Safest place anybody could be.  You could walk down the streets day or night.  You can't do that today.  If you get robbed, assaulted or killed, all anybody can do is call the cops just like anyplace else.


Perhaps the safest place for those that don't cross the mob.  Not safe for those that "disappear off the planet".


----------



## AZrailwhale (May 5, 2022)

IM2 said:


> There are more white gangs and the Mafia works with all those gangs.


The Mafia is mostly gone and dead.  It’s members have gone legit.


----------



## AZrailwhale (May 5, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Why do you think that is?  That white racists wouldn't consider other white people as being white?


Because the WASPs didn’t recognize “dirty immigrants” as white.


----------



## Lisa558 (May 5, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Because the WASPs didn’t recognize “dirty immigrants” as white.


Even so, they buckled down and got to work. They’re not still complaining about what happened generations ago.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 5, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> The Mafia is mostly gone and dead.  It’s members have gone legit.



I don't' know about dead and gone.  Perhaps not nearly as large as they used to be.  They just keep a real low profile right now.  At least around here you can still find people who run numbers, take sports bets and that kind of thing.  

My cousin opened up his own office cleaning business several years ago in a small town.  They told him he had to close down because he was crossing into the wrong territory.  Same thing if you buy some pinball or other gaming machines and put them into bars and such.  You might be getting a visit from one of those guys.


----------



## AZrailwhale (May 5, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I don't' know about dead and gone.  Perhaps not nearly as large as they used to be.  They just keep a real low profile right now.  At least around here you can still find people who run numbers, take sports bets and that kind of thing.
> 
> My cousin opened up his own office cleaning business several years ago in a small town.  They told him he had to close down because he was crossing into the wrong territory.  Same thing if you buy some pinball or other gaming machines and put them into bars and such.  You might be getting a visit from one of those guys.


Are they Mafia, or just criminals?  The FBI did a pretty good job of gutting the Mafia with the aid of RICO laws.


----------



## IM2 (May 5, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> The Mafia is mostly gone and dead.  It’s members have gone legit.


Of course they have.


----------



## IM2 (May 5, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Even so, they buckled down and got to work. They’re not still complaining about what happened generations ago.



Since you're evidence of racism now... It means we just aren't talking about the past. On top of that whites didn't really face exclusion.


----------



## IM2 (May 5, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> This is the kind of stuff that makes you look silly.
> 
> The stuff you list happen because of poor diet and lack of exercise, not because "Oh, my Gosh, I'm stressing out because white people are mean to me!"



Joe, I told you not to try telling me about something your white ass doesn't experience. I know what the body goes through when a person experiences racism. Because I have felt it. You have not. Living with racism is stressful and it a lot fucking more than "white people are mean to me". Whites like you come forth with this simple minded bullshit because you don't live with it and you think its only a few nasty words.



JoeB131 said:


> So exercise more, stop eating greasy food,
> 
> The reality is, Heart Disease and Cancer are the things that kill you because your body wears out. Humans really weren't designed to live 60 years... Most points in history, living to be 60 was an exception, not the rule. (Neither of my parents lived to see sixty... two more days and I will!)



No Joe that's not the complete cure. If you actually experienced the chemical reactions that take place when you face racism, you would not make such simplistic comments.

*Allostasis is the process that helps us adapt to stress. Allostatic load is compiled damage to the body due to constant pressure. Such stress leads to allostatic overload, which is the point when the overall amount of stress causes health problems or death. For example, allostatic processes lead to increases in blood pressure, a leading cause of death in the black community. Allostatic overload created by stress caused due to constant exposure to racism increases the occurrences of myocardial infarction(heart attacks) in blacks.*

I'm going to give you some things to read and you would be wise to read them and learn from what you are about to read.

Ryan C.T. DeLapp, MA, and Monnica T. Williams, Ph.D._, “Proactively Coping With Racism, Getting back to our lives in the aftermath of racial violence in the media.”_, _July 18, 2016, _www.psychologytoday,com

Natasha Tracy, _Types of Abuse: What are the Different Forms of Abuse?_Types of Abuse: What are the Different Forms of Abuse? | HealthyPlace

_Ryan C.T. DeLapp, MA, and Monnica T. Williams, Ph.D., “Proactively Coping With Racism, Getting back to our lives in the aftermath of racial violence in the media.”_, _July 18, 2016, _www.psychologytoday,com

_Is Racism a Public Health Issue?_ Center for the Study of Racism, Social Justice & Health, October 9, 2017, Is Racism a Public Health Issue? — Center for the Study of Racism, Social Justice & Health

Camara Jules P. Harrell, Tanisha I. Burford, Brandi N. Cage, Travette McNair Nelson, Sheronda Shearon, Adrian Thompson, and Steven Green_, *Multiple Pathways Linking Racism to Health Outcomes*, _US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health
_ 
Trauma, Racism, Chronic Stress and the Health of Black Americans, _Compilation by the SAMHSA Office of Behavioral Health Equity, June 3, 2020, https://www.mhanational.org/sites/default/files/AfricanAmericansRaceViolenceandHealth SAMHSA OBHE 6.3.20.pdf

Geronimus, A. T., Hicken, M., Keene, D., & Bound, J. (2006). _"Weathering" and age patterns of allostatic load scores among blacks and whites in the United States._ American journal of public health, 96(5), 826–833. The American Journal of Public Health (AJPH) from the American Public Health Association (APHA) publications

B.S. McEwen, J.C. Wingfield, _Allostasis and Allostatic Load_, Encyclopedia of Stress (Second Edition), 2007, Allostasis and Allostatic Load

B.S. McEwen, _Stress: Homeostasis, Rheostasis, Allostasis and Allostatic Load__, Encyclopedia of Neuroscience, 2009_, Stress: Homeostasis, Rheostasis, Reactive Scope, Allostasis and Allostatic Load

Lukachko, Alicia & Hatzenbuehler, Mark & Keyes, Katherine. (2014_). Structural racism and myocardial infarction in the United States. Social science & medicine _(1982). 103. 42-50. 10.1016/ Structural racism and myocardial infarction in the United States


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 5, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Are they Mafia, or just criminals?  The FBI did a pretty good job of gutting the Mafia with the aid of RICO laws.



Oh no, it was the mafia.  That one place I worked at many years ago was mob ran, and my cousin worked for the same place.  It was a vending company.  He would buy older pinball machines from the company and put them into bars, but he had to get permission on the bars he was allowed to use them in.  He's dealt with these people before.  Besides, what other criminals would be involved in something like office cleaning?


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 6, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> THAT is your response to my sharing with you the horrific antisemitism - and loss of loved ones due to outright murder for their religion  - that my family ONE generation up from me suffered, and that despite that every one in the next generation went on to college and successful lives?!
> 
> Stop going back in history to excuse why the black poverty rate is double the whites. They need to concentrate on what they can do NOW to reduce it, and substantially, by simply not having the majority of babies OOW and finishing school.


My response is that you and your people have not been in this country long enough to have suffered *MORE *than black "Americans".  And I put "Americans" in quotes because SCOTUS Justice Taney, in the landmark ruling Dred Scoft v Sanford stated the following



> On March 6, 1857, Chief Justice Roger Taney issued what is widely regarded as the worst Supreme Court opinion ever. He noted that _*the question before the Court was whether African Americans are citizens of the United States*_ and thus able to file suit in federal court. His analysis of that issue is couched in abjectly racist language:​​_[African Americans] had for more than a century before been regarded as beings of an inferior order, and altogether unfit to associate with the white race, either in social or political relations; *and so far inferior, that they had no rights which the white man was bound to respect*; and that the negro might justly and lawfully be reduced to slavery for his benefit. He was bought and sold, and treated as an ordinary article of merchandise and traffic, whenever a profit could be made by it._​



If you feel that my responses are lacking in compassion for what your people have suffered "so long ago", it's because you've failed to show an ounce of compassion for what black people have suffered in this country - in the past as well as currently.

*Why do you think that the killing of the Jewish people is worse than any of the killings of black people*?  Why are you unable to look at our history with any understanding or compassion?  How is it that I can care for and have compassion for your people, enough to put my life on the line for some of you, but all you can do is find fault?

If you were right about the things you're saying, I'd tell you so even if I got tired of hearing you talk about it.  But you're not right.  There are plenty of single mothers or young mothers still making their way through school with young children who manage to rise out of poverty.  Yes, some of them chose to do it the harder way but that's their right.  My sister's younger son and his girlfriend are both graduating this month.  They have a 3 year old that they're raising and his mom is graduating with her Master's degree in spite of her pregnancy disrupting her schooling momentarily.  My sister's daughter is graduating this month as well with her bachelor's at age 22 in spite of the COVID interruptions and already has a job in her field.  Both of my sister's sons will be graduating with at least a bachelor possibly a master's degree.

I think it's great that you all accomplished what you did, because I believe education can open doors and change lives however I don't kick the homeless people as I pass them by or shout at them that all they need to do to get off the streets and out of poverty & homelessness is to stay in school and not have babies.  Most of them are white men, by the way.

Your people are NOT the only ones who have suffered or been murdered due to race or because who they are.  Your head must be up in the clouds if you cannot see that.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 6, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I posted the Florida law (which mirrors ours here in Ohio) with a link.  Again, the law states deadly force is legally allowed to be used if you believe that you (or others) are in jeopardy of serious bodily harm or death.  Zimmerman suffered serious bodily harm which warranted him to use deadly force against an unarmed attacker to stop the assault.  It wasn't a fist fight outside of a bar, it was a felonious assault attack.
> 
> No, a CCW is not an administrative process, it's training of handling a gun in public, training on what the laws of your state and others (those with reciprocity with your state) are, range training and testing to make sure you know how to use that weapon.  You don't need 10 hours of class time to teach the application process and maintenance of a license.  The class is heavily focused on the laws, safety such as downrange (if you want to know what that means, ask) statistics on missed shots from X feet away, how you can be blinded by using your firearm at night from the gun powder flash, real stories and situations of other CCW holders using deadly force in the past and court rulings.
> 
> Every time you comment on CCW licenses, it makes it more and more evident you have no CCW license at all and never have.  You just keep



The link you posted doesn't say anything about carrying a concealed weapon.  It was about self-defense laws and you seem unable to differentiate between the two.

The following is Florida's Concealed Carry Law, statue 790.06 and it says nothing about what constitutes self-defense.  I would guess that the certification each person submits serves as their proof that they have been properly trained and know and understand the applicable self-defense laws.  Some of them obviously don't know or understand them but I suspect just as many do and simply ignore them.

I was going to format the text for ease of reading but figured you wouldn't read it anyway but it's here for anyone else who  cares to peruse it.

*790.06 License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.—*
(1) The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services is authorized to issue licenses to carry concealed weapons or concealed firearms to persons qualified as provided in this section. Each such license must bear a color photograph of the licensee. For the purposes of this section, concealed weapons or concealed firearms are defined as a handgun, electronic weapon or device, tear gas gun, knife, or billie, but the term does not include a machine gun as defined in s. 790.001(9). Such licenses shall be valid throughout the state for a period of 7 years from the date of issuance. Any person in compliance with the terms of such license may carry a concealed weapon or concealed firearm notwithstanding the provisions of s. 790.01. The licensee must carry the license, together with valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must display both the license and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer. Violations of the provisions of this subsection shall constitute a noncriminal violation with a penalty of $25, payable to the clerk of the court.

(2) The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall issue a license if the applicant:
       (a) Is a resident of the United States and a citizen of the United States or a permanent resident alien of the United
              States, as determined by the United States Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services, or is a consular security
              official of a foreign government that maintains diplomatic relations and treaties of commerce, friendship, and
              navigation with the United States and is certified as such by the foreign government and by the appropriate
              embassy in this country;
        (b) Is 21 years of age or older;
        (c) Does not suffer from a physical infirmity which prevents the safe handling of a weapon or firearm;
        (d) Is not ineligible to possess a firearm pursuant to s. 790.23 by virtue of having been convicted of a felony;
        (e) Has not been:
               1. Found guilty of a crime under the provisions of chapter 893 or similar laws of any other state relating to
                     controlled substances within a 3-year period immediately preceding the date on which the application is
                      submitted; or
               2. Committed for the abuse of a controlled substance under chapter 397 or under the provisions of former
                     chapter 396 or similar laws of any other state. An applicant who has been granted relief from firearms
                     disabilities pursuant to s. 790.065(2)(a)4.d. or pursuant to the law of the state in which the commitment
                     occurred is deemed not to be committed for the abuse of a controlled substance under this subparagraph;
         (f) Does not chronically and habitually use alcoholic beverages or other substances to the extent that his or her
                normal faculties are impaired. It shall be presumed that an applicant chronically and habitually uses alcoholic
                beverages or other substances to the extent that his or her normal faculties are impaired if the applicant has been
                convicted under s. 790.151 or has been deemed a habitual offender under s. 856.011(3), or has had two or more convictions under s. 316.193 or similar laws of any other state, within the 3-year period immediately preceding the date on which the application is submitted;
(g) Desires a legal means to carry a concealed weapon or firearm for lawful self-defense;
(h) Demonstrates competence with a firearm by any one of the following:
1. Completion of any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission or a similar agency of another state;
2. Completion of any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course;
3. Completion of any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law enforcement agency, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school, using instructors certified by the National Rifle Association, Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission, or the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services;
4. Completion of any law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of a law enforcement agency or security enforcement;
5. Presents evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or military service;
6. Is licensed or has been licensed to carry a firearm in this state or a county or municipality of this state, unless such license has been revoked for cause; or
7. Completion of any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state-certified or National Rifle Association certified firearms instructor;
A photocopy of a certificate of completion of any of the courses or classes; an affidavit from the instructor, school, club, organization, or group that conducted or taught such course or class attesting to the completion of the course or class by the applicant; or a copy of any document that shows completion of the course or class or evidences participation in firearms competition shall constitute evidence of qualification under this paragraph. A person who conducts a course pursuant to subparagraph 2., subparagraph 3., or subparagraph 7., or who, as an instructor, attests to the completion of such courses, must maintain records certifying that he or she observed the student safely handle and discharge the firearm in his or her physical presence and that the discharge of the firearm included live fire using a firearm and ammunition as defined in s. 790.001;
(i) Has not been adjudicated an incapacitated person under s. 744.331, or similar laws of any other state. An applicant who has been granted relief from firearms disabilities pursuant to s. 790.065(2)(a)4.d. or pursuant to the law of the state in which the adjudication occurred is deemed not to have been adjudicated an incapacitated person under this paragraph;
(j) Has not been committed to a mental institution under chapter 394, or similar laws of any other state. An applicant who has been granted relief from firearms disabilities pursuant to s. 790.065(2)(a)4.d. or pursuant to the law of the state in which the commitment occurred is deemed not to have been committed in a mental institution under this paragraph;
(k) Has not had adjudication of guilt withheld or imposition of sentence suspended on any felony unless 3 years have elapsed since probation or any other conditions set by the court have been fulfilled, or expunction has occurred;
(l) Has not had adjudication of guilt withheld or imposition of sentence suspended on any misdemeanor crime of domestic violence unless 3 years have elapsed since probation or any other conditions set by the court have been fulfilled, or the record has been expunged;
(m) Has not been issued an injunction that is currently in force and effect and that restrains the applicant from committing acts of domestic violence or acts of repeat violence; and
(n) Is not prohibited from purchasing or possessing a firearm by any other provision of Florida or federal law.
(3) The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall deny a license if the applicant has been found guilty of, had adjudication of guilt withheld for, or had imposition of sentence suspended for one or more crimes of violence constituting a misdemeanor, unless 3 years have elapsed since probation or any other conditions set by the court have been fulfilled or the record has been sealed or expunged. The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall revoke a license if the licensee has been found guilty of, had adjudication of guilt withheld for, or had imposition of sentence suspended for one or more crimes of violence within the preceding 3 years. The department shall, upon notification by a law enforcement agency, a court, or the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and subsequent written verification, suspend a license or the processing of an application for a license if the licensee or applicant is arrested or formally charged with a crime that would disqualify such person from having a license under this section, until final disposition of the case. The department shall suspend a license or the processing of an application for a license if the licensee or applicant is issued an injunction that restrains the licensee or applicant from committing acts of domestic violence or acts of repeat violence.
(4) The application shall be completed, under oath, on a form adopted by the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services and shall include:
(a) The name, address, place of birth, date of birth, and race of the applicant;
(b) A statement that the applicant is in compliance with criteria contained within subsections (2) and (3);
(c) A statement that the applicant has been furnished a copy of or a website link to this chapter and is knowledgeable of its provisions;
(d) A conspicuous warning that the application is executed under oath and that a false answer to any question, or the submission of any false document by the applicant, subjects the applicant to criminal prosecution under s. 837.06;
(e) A statement that the applicant desires a concealed weapon or firearms license as a means of lawful self-defense; and
(f) Directions for an applicant who is a servicemember, as defined in s. 250.01, or a veteran, as defined in s. 1.01, to request expedited processing of his or her application.
(5) The applicant shall submit to the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services or an approved tax collector pursuant to s. 790.0625:
(a) A completed application as described in subsection (4).
(b) A nonrefundable license fee of up to $55 if he or she has not previously been issued a statewide license or of up to $45 for renewal of a statewide license. The cost of processing fingerprints as required in paragraph (c) shall be borne by the applicant. However, an individual holding an active certification from the Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission as a law enforcement officer, correctional officer, or correctional probation officer as defined in s. 943.10(1), (2), (3), (6), (7), (8), or (9) is exempt from the licensing requirements of this section. If such individual wishes to receive a concealed weapon or firearm license, he or she is exempt from the background investigation and all background investigation fees but must pay the current license fees regularly required to be paid by nonexempt applicants. Further, a law enforcement officer, a correctional officer, or a correctional probation officer as defined in s. 943.10(1), (2), or (3) is exempt from the required fees and background investigation for 1 year after his or her retirement.
(c) A full set of fingerprints of the applicant administered by a law enforcement agency or the Division of Licensing of the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services or an approved tax collector pursuant to s. 790.0625 together with any personal identifying information required by federal law to process fingerprints. Charges for fingerprint services under this paragraph are not subject to the sales tax on fingerprint services imposed in s. 212.05(1)(i).
(d) A photocopy of a certificate, affidavit, or document as described in paragraph (2)(h).
(e) A full frontal view color photograph of the applicant taken within the preceding 30 days, in which the head, including hair, measures 7/8 of an inch wide and 11/8 inches high.
(f) For expedited processing of an application:
1. A servicemember shall submit a copy of the Common Access Card, United States Uniformed Services Identification Card, or current deployment orders.
2. A veteran shall submit a copy of the DD Form 214, issued by the United States Department of Defense, or another acceptable form of identification as specified by the Department of Veterans’ Affairs.
(6)(a) The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, upon receipt of the items listed in subsection (5), shall forward the full set of fingerprints of the applicant to the Department of Law Enforcement for state and federal processing, provided the federal service is available, to be processed for any criminal justice information as defined in s. 943.045. The cost of processing such fingerprints shall be payable to the Department of Law Enforcement by the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services.
(b) The sheriff’s office shall provide fingerprinting service if requested by the applicant and may charge a fee not to exceed $5 for this service.
(c) The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall, within 90 days after the date of receipt of the items listed in subsection (5):
1. Issue the license; or
2. Deny the application based solely on the ground that the applicant fails to qualify under the criteria listed in subsection (2) or subsection (3). If the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services denies the application, it shall notify the applicant in writing, stating the ground for denial and informing the applicant of any right to a hearing pursuant to chapter 120.
3. In the event the department receives criminal history information with no final disposition on a crime which may disqualify the applicant, the time limitation prescribed by this paragraph may be suspended until receipt of the final disposition or proof of restoration of civil and firearm rights.
(d) In the event a legible set of fingerprints, as determined by the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services or the Federal Bureau of Investigation, cannot be obtained after two attempts, the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall determine eligibility based upon the name checks conducted by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.
(e) A consular security official of a foreign government that maintains diplomatic relations and treaties of commerce, friendship, and navigation with the United States and is certified as such by the foreign government and by the appropriate embassy in this country must be issued a license within 20 days after the date of the receipt of a completed application, certification document, color photograph as specified in paragraph (5)(e), and a nonrefundable license fee of $300. Consular security official licenses shall be valid for 1 year and may be renewed upon completion of the application process as provided in this section.
(f) The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall, upon receipt of a completed application and the identifying information required under paragraph (5)(f), expedite the processing of a servicemember’s or a veteran’s concealed weapon or firearm license application.
(7) The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall maintain an automated listing of licenseholders and pertinent information, and such information shall be available online, upon request, at all times to all law enforcement agencies through the Florida Crime Information Center.
(8) Within 30 days after the changing of a permanent address, or within 30 days after having a license lost or destroyed, the licensee shall notify the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services of such change. Failure to notify the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services pursuant to the provisions of this subsection shall constitute a noncriminal violation with a penalty of $25.
(9) In the event that a concealed weapon or firearm license is lost or destroyed, the license shall be automatically invalid, and the person to whom the same was issued may, upon payment of $15 to the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, obtain a duplicate, or substitute thereof, upon furnishing a notarized statement to the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services that such license has been lost or destroyed.
(10) A license issued under this section shall be suspended or revoked pursuant to chapter 120 if the licensee:
(a) Is found to be ineligible under the criteria set forth in subsection (2);
(b) Develops or sustains a physical infirmity which prevents the safe handling of a weapon or firearm;
(c) Is convicted of a felony which would make the licensee ineligible to possess a firearm pursuant to s. 790.23;
(d) Is found guilty of a crime under the provisions of chapter 893, or similar laws of any other state, relating to controlled substances;
(e) Is committed as a substance abuser under chapter 397, or is deemed a habitual offender under s. 856.011(3), or similar laws of any other state;
(f) Is convicted of a second violation of s. 316.193, or a similar law of another state, within 3 years after a first conviction of such section or similar law of another state, even though the first violation may have occurred before the date on which the application was submitted;
(g) Is adjudicated an incapacitated person under s. 744.331, or similar laws of any other state; or
(h) Is committed to a mental institution under chapter 394, or similar laws of any other state.
Notwithstanding s. 120.60(5), service of a notice of the suspension or revocation of a concealed weapon or firearm license must be given by either certified mail, return receipt requested, to the licensee at his or her last known mailing address furnished to the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, or by personal service. If a notice given by certified mail is returned as undeliverable, a second attempt must be made to provide notice to the licensee at that address, by either first-class mail in an envelope, postage prepaid, addressed to the licensee at his or her last known mailing address furnished to the department, or, if the licensee has provided an e-mail address to the department, by e-mail. Such mailing by the department constitutes notice, and any failure by the licensee to receive such notice does not stay the effective date or term of the suspension or revocation. A request for hearing must be filed with the department within 21 days after notice is received by personal delivery, or within 26 days after the date the department deposits the notice in the United States mail (21 days plus 5 days for mailing). The department shall document its attempts to provide notice, and such documentation is admissible in the courts of this state and constitutes sufficient proof that notice was given.
(11)(a) At least 90 days before the expiration date of the license, the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall mail to each licensee a written notice of the expiration and a renewal form prescribed by the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services. The licensee must renew his or her license on or before the expiration date by filing with the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services the renewal form containing an affidavit submitted under oath and under penalty of perjury stating that the licensee remains qualified pursuant to the criteria specified in subsections (2) and (3), a color photograph as specified in paragraph (5)(e), and the required renewal fee. Out-of-state residents must also submit a complete set of fingerprints and fingerprint processing fee. The license shall be renewed upon receipt of the completed renewal form, color photograph, appropriate payment of fees, and, if applicable, fingerprints. Additionally, a licensee who fails to file a renewal application on or before its expiration date must renew his or her license by paying a late fee of $15. A license may not be renewed 180 days or more after its expiration date, and such a license is deemed to be permanently expired. A person whose license has been permanently expired may reapply for licensure; however, an application for licensure and fees under subsection (5) must be submitted, and a background investigation shall be conducted pursuant to this section. A person who knowingly files false information under this subsection is subject to criminal prosecution under s. 837.06.
(b) A license issued to a servicemember, as defined in s. 250.01, is subject to paragraph (a); however, such a license does not expire while the servicemember is serving on military orders that have taken him or her over 35 miles from his or her residence and shall be extended, as provided in this paragraph, for up to 180 days after his or her return to such residence. If the license renewal requirements in paragraph (a) are met within the 180-day extension period, the servicemember may not be charged any additional costs, such as, but not limited to, late fees or delinquency fees, above the normal license fees. The servicemember must present to the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services a copy of his or her official military orders or a written verification from the member’s commanding officer before the end of the 180-day period in order to qualify for the extension.
(12)(a) A license issued under this section does not authorize any person to openly carry a handgun or carry a concealed weapon or firearm into:
1. Any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05;
2. Any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station;
3. Any detention facility, prison, or jail;
4. Any courthouse;
5. Any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom;
6. Any polling place;
7. Any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district;
8. Any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof;
9. Any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms;
10. Any elementary or secondary school facility or administration building;
11. Any career center;
12. Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose;
13. Any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile;
14. The inside of the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or
15. Any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.
(b) A person licensed under this section shall not be prohibited from carrying or storing a firearm in a vehicle for lawful purposes.
(c) This section does not modify the terms or conditions of s. 790.251(7).
(d) Any person who knowingly and willfully violates any provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(13) Notwithstanding any other law, for the purposes of safety, security, personal protection, or any other lawful purpose, a person licensed under this section may carry a concealed weapon or firearm on property owned, rented, leased, borrowed, or lawfully used by a church, synagogue, or other religious institution. This subsection does not limit the private property rights of a church, synagogue, or other religious institution to exercise control over property that the church, synagogue, or other religious institution owns, rents, leases, borrows, or lawfully uses.
(14) All moneys collected by the department pursuant to this section shall be deposited in the Division of Licensing Trust Fund, and the Legislature shall appropriate from the fund those amounts deemed necessary to administer the provisions of this section. All revenues collected, less those costs determined by the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services to be nonrecurring or one-time costs, shall be deferred over the 7-year licensure period. Notwithstanding the provisions of s. 493.6117, all moneys collected pursuant to this section shall not revert to the General Revenue Fund; however, this shall not abrogate the requirement for payment of the service charge imposed pursuant to chapter 215.
(15) All funds received by the sheriff pursuant to the provisions of this section shall be deposited into the general revenue fund of the county and shall be budgeted to the sheriff.
(16) The Legislature finds as a matter of public policy and fact that it is necessary to provide statewide uniform standards for issuing licenses to carry concealed weapons and firearms for self-defense and finds it necessary to occupy the field of regulation of the bearing of concealed weapons or firearms for self-defense to ensure that no honest, law-abiding person who qualifies under the provisions of this section is subjectively or arbitrarily denied his or her rights. The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall implement and administer the provisions of this section. The Legislature does not delegate to the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services the authority to regulate or restrict the issuing of licenses provided for in this section, beyond those provisions contained in this section. Subjective or arbitrary actions or rules which encumber the issuing process by placing burdens on the applicant beyond those sworn statements and specified documents detailed in this section or which create restrictions beyond those specified in this section are in conflict with the intent of this section and are prohibited. This section shall be liberally construed to carry out the constitutional right to bear arms for self-defense. This section is supplemental and additional to existing rights to bear arms, and nothing in this section shall impair or diminish such rights.
(17) The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall maintain statistical information on the number of licenses issued, revoked, suspended, and denied.
(18) As amended by chapter 87-24, Laws of Florida, this section shall be known and may be cited as the “Jack Hagler Self Defense Act.”
History.—s. 2, ch. 4147, 1893; s. 1, ch. 5139, 1903; GS 3268; RGS 5101; CGL 7203; s. 2, ch. 76-165; s. 67, ch. 77-121; s. 1, ch. 77-302; s. 176, ch. 79-164; ss. 1, 2, ch. 87-24; s. 4, ch. 88-183; s. 2, ch. 89-60; s. 110, ch. 89-96; s. 3, ch. 90-311; s. 2, ch. 90-316; ss. 1, 7, ch. 90-364; s. 1, ch. 92-52; s. 1, ch. 92-183; s. 38, ch. 93-39; s. 52, ch. 95-196; s. 1, ch. 95-229; s. 10, ch. 95-430; s. 17, ch. 97-94; s. 1206, ch. 97-102; s. 5, ch. 98-284; s. 3, ch. 98-335; s. 228, ch. 99-245; s. 61, ch. 2000-258; s. 10, ch. 2002-295; s. 108, ch. 2003-1; s. 60, ch. 2004-357; s. 1, ch. 2006-90; s. 1, ch. 2008-105; s. 2, ch. 2011-145; s. 1, ch. 2012-144; s. 61, ch. 2013-116; s. 1, ch. 2014-205; ss. 39, 40, ch. 2016-166; s. 50, ch. 2017-36; s. 39, ch. 2017-85; s. 1, ch. 2021-200.
790.0601 Public records exemption for concealed weapons.—
(1) Personal identifying information of an individual who has applied for or received a license to carry a concealed weapon or firearm pursuant to s. 790.06 held by the Division of Licensing of the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services is confidential and exempt from s. 119.07(1) and s. 24(a), Art. I of the State Constitution. This exemption applies to such information held by the division before, on, or after the effective date of this section.
(2) Personal identifying information of an individual who has applied for a license to carry a concealed weapon or firearm pursuant to s. 790.0625 which is held by a tax collector appointed by the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services to receive applications and fees is confidential and exempt from s. 119.07(1) and s. 24(a), Art. I of the State Constitution. This exemption applies to such information held by the tax collector before, on, or after the effective date of this subsection.
(3) Information made confidential and exempt by this section shall be disclosed:
(a) With the express written consent of the applicant or licensee or his or her legally authorized representative.
(b) By court order upon a showing of good cause.
(c) Upon request by a law enforcement agency in connection with the performance of lawful duties, which shall include access to any automated database containing such information maintained by the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services.
History.—s. 1, ch. 2006-102; s. 1, ch. 2011-136; s. 1, ch. 2014-206; s. 1, ch. 2019-34.


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## JoeB131 (May 6, 2022)

IM2 said:


> Joe, I told you not to try telling me about something your white ass doesn't experience. I know what the body goes through when a person experiences racism. Because I have felt it. You have not. Living with racism is stressful and it a lot fucking more than "white people are mean to me". Whites like you come forth with this simple minded bullshit because you don't live with it and you think its only a few nasty words.



Yes, because clearly I've had no stress in my life... 
Other than having both of my parents die when I was 19
And being in the military. That's not a stressful job at all.
Or nearly being economically wiped out in 2008 after dealing with a combination of medical bills and job changes. 
Or dealing with a shitload of asshole bosses. 
Or working 80 hours a week building my business like I do now. 

But if I have a heart attack, I'm not going to blame ANYONE but myself, for my poor diet and lack of exercise. 




IM2 said:


> No Joe that's not the complete cure. If you actually experienced the chemical reactions that take place when you face racism, you would not make such simplistic comments.
> 
> *Allostasis is the process that helps us adapt to stress. Allostatic load is compiled damage to the body due to constant pressure. Such stress leads to allostatic overload, which is the point when the overall amount of stress causes health problems or death. For example, allostatic processes lead to increases in blood pressure, a leading cause of death in the black community. Allostatic overload created by stress caused due to constant exposure to racism increases the occurrences of myocardial infarction(heart attacks) in blacks.*
> 
> I'm going to give you some things to read and you would be wise to read them and learn from what you are about to read.



Again, if you are going to get into this level of silly, I'm not sure there is much I can do for you. 


You tell me we need to reform the police, I'm totally with you. 
You tell me we still need affirmative action, because of the racism inherit in the system, I would totally agree. 
You say, we should have universal health care so poor black people can get the same access to medical treatment that affluent white people get, I completely support that. 
You tell me that you are having stress because white people are mean to you, then I say, get a life.  Everyone has a sad story.  But I'd still rather be an American than any other nationality in the world, where they have REAL Stress.  


When half your "poor" people are overweight, then you really don't have the problems you think you have.


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## Lisa558 (May 6, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> My response is that you and your people have not been in this country long enough to have suffered *MORE *than black "Americans".  And I put "Americans" in quotes because SCOTUS Justice Taney, in the landmark ruling Dred Scoft v Sanford stated the following
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Didn’t read through you entire novella beyond your claim that my family wasn’t in this country to suffer as much as blacks.

My point is that MY family suffered more, much more, than blacks today. They had their loved ones - their own parents and siblings! - ripped from them and murder because they were Jewish! This happened in their lifetime. My father lost his four cousins - when they were all pre-teens or teens! And yet, in that very same generation, EVERY SINGLE CHILD went on to graduate from college.

So stop with all your desperate attempts at excuse making as you refuse to hold blacks TODAY responsible for their own decisions. They’ve been given major advantages via affirmative action for two generations!  If my parents and their siblings, growing up in the shadow of the Holocaust could graduate from college DESPITE the anti-Jew quotas, then there’s no excuse for blacks to have not been able to do the same, and WITH pro-black bias in admissions.

All this excuse making about the poor blwck victims and their whitr oppressors, and your demand that whitey do more! more! More! to help blacks who won’t even help themselves is going to drive resentment from whites who owe blacks people nothing.

1. No babies before marriage.
2. Stay in school.


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## JoeB131 (May 6, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Didn’t read through you entire novella beyond your claim that my family wasn’t in this country to suffer as much as blacks.
> 
> My point is that MY family suffered more, much more, than blacks today. They had their loved ones - their own parents and siblings! - ripped from them and murder because they were Jewish! This happened in their lifetime. My father lost his four cousins - when they were all teens! And yet, in that very same generation, EVERY SINGLE CHILD went on to graduate from college.



Cousins?  Really?  Frankly, I haven't talked to any of my cousins in 10 years, and frankly, barely miss them.   I think if one of them died, I'd be mildly annoyed I had to go to a funeral. 

There's a whole wing of cousins I haven't talked to since Childhood. 



Lisa558 said:


> So stop with all your desperate attempts at excuse making as you refuse to hold blacks TODAY responsible for their own decisions. They’ve been given major advantages via affirmative action for two generations! If my parents and their siblings, growing up in the shadow of the Holocaust could graduate from college DESPITE the anti-Jew quotas, then there’s no excuse for blacks to have not been able to do the same, and WITH pro-black bias in admissions.



The Holocaust didn't happen here.   And most colleges didn't have anti-Jewish quotas.  Your religion is a choice, at the end of the day, one you aren't really being penalized for. 

Race isn't a choice, and there is real discrimination that goes on.   You can make all the right choices, and still face discrimination, like the black Army Lieutenant who had two cops brandish pistols in his face because he drove too fast.


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## JoeMoma (May 6, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Yes, because clearly I've had no stress in my life...
> Other than having both of my parents die when I was 19
> And being in the military. That's not a stressful job at all.
> Or nearly being economically wiped out in 2008 after dealing with a combination of medical bills and job changes.
> ...


I would not be surprised if IM2  does experience hypertension from brooding over his perceived white racism 24/7.  On the other hand, I doubt the average black is constantly brooding over white racism all the time because they are too busy simply living their lives. 

 I'm not saying that racism is not a problem, but we have come a long way since the 1960s.


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## Paul Essien (May 6, 2022)

Lisa558
*My point is that MY family suffered more, much more, than blacks today. They had their loved ones - their own parents and siblings! - ripped from them and murder because they were Jewish! This happened in their lifetime. My father lost his four cousins - when they were all teens!*

And show me black ppl (_as a group_) mocking that ? Show me black ppl saying "_Well you know Jewish ppl sold there own"_ ...after all I'm pretty sure you know that there were many jewish collaborators who sent their own people to the oven or gassed in the concentration camps

Like this women. Stella Goldschlag.





But notice no one downplays the holocaust. Hell  Holocaust denial is virtually a crime. Now when it comes to black chattel slavery _"You ppl sold your own" "Get over it" _and a million other excuses

There are tons of white people who will have more challenging lives that I as black man will have. This quadriplegic white man with cerebral palsy will face a much more challenging life than me in many ways





But the massive problems he will face won't b due to his race.

But there are also black men with celebral palsy too





And I'm pretty sure the treatment that black men with celebral palsy get is almost certainly inferior to the treatment that white men with celebral palsy get.

You seem to think black people in USMB are trying to win gold medal at the oppression Olympics.

So your trick is this : when a black person points out an example of racism you ask yourself these questions:

Has something like it ever been done to you or any other white person you know (_or can find out about on Google_)?
Have whites done something like it to other whites, like maybe to poor whites?
Has the other person’s own race done something like it?
Has anyone in history done something like it before? If you can come up with at least two examples then you can say, “It’s just human nature”.
*You are bound to find something. *

Especially if you overlook the cause and scale of what they are talking about (l_ike racial profiling by the police of blacks_ ) and look just at the narrow form of the action (_like being stopped by the police_).


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## Lisa558 (May 6, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> My response is that you and your people have not been in this country long enough to have suffered *MORE *than black "Americans".  And I put "Americans" in quotes because SCOTUS Justice Taney, in the landmark ruling Dred Scoft v Sanford stated the following
> 
> 
> 
> ...


and I never said my people were the only ones that suffered. But my people moved beyond it, by and large, even though the worst of it happened in the lifetimes of those still alive today -  and you are still quoting legal cases from 1857 to justify why your people have a 75% OOW rate that contributes DIRECTLY to their poverty.

And you’re not right. Giving examples of some successful single mothers does not negate the facts: the is a direct correlation between having babies you can’t afford OOW, and poverty. Blacks have a HORRIBLE pattern of having babies first, often as teens, and then you’re going to blame 1857 mores on black poverty?


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## squeeze berry (May 6, 2022)

Dekster said:


> If TyroneKwa never applied himself, got booted out of school, joined a gang, did the crimes, etc etc etc, the it is certainly TyroneKwa's fault.  However, when it comes to blacks as a group, it is naive to think that racism/Jim Crow didn't contribute to blacks still being disproportionately poor.  I am currently the owner of income-producing inherited properties that have been in my family for generations with those lovely Jim Crow restrictions in the deeds.


not evert white person has inherited income producing properties


PinktheFloyd88 said:


> You have no understanding of US History or policy if you think it is not racism.
> 
> Just a 10 minute read of the Tulsa town bombings and Emmitt Till’a murder teaches you all you need to know.
> 
> ...


meanwhile BLM riots, Watts, George Floyd Riots, LA riots, polar bear hunting, Channon Christian and Christopher Newsome, inter-racial violent crime rates, OJ Simpson, jussie Smollett, Duke LAX, welfare, affirmative action.....


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## Ray From Cleveland (May 6, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> The link you posted doesn't say anything about carrying a concealed weapon. It was about self-defense laws and you seem unable to differentiate between the two.
> 
> The following is Florida's Concealed Carry Law, statue 790.06 and it says nothing about what constitutes self-defense. I would guess that the certification each person submits serves as their proof that they have been properly trained and know and understand the applicable self-defense laws. Some of them obviously don't know or understand them but I suspect just as many do and simply ignore them.
> 
> I was going to format the text for ease of reading but figured you wouldn't read it anyway but it's here for anyone else who cares to peruse it.



Yes, the link I posted is the law for self-defense using a deadly weapon, which in 99.9% of the cases is a firearm.  That's why they teach law when you go to CCW class.  And what other license is there to carry a concealed weapon other than a CCW?  Your own link states you must possess and carry your license for a concealed weapon at all times you are armed with said weapon.


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## Ray From Cleveland (May 6, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> My response is that you and your people have not been in this country long enough to have suffered *MORE *than black "Americans".  And I put "Americans" in quotes because SCOTUS Justice Taney, in the landmark ruling Dred Scoft v Sanford stated the following
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, whites makeup most of the homeless because we are five times the size of the black population in this country.  Per capita however, most homeless are blacks: 


African Americans make up more than 40% of the homeless population, but represent 13 percent of the general population.
American Indians/Alaska Natives, Native Hawaiians and Pacific Islanders, and those of more than one race each make up less than 5 percent of the general population. But each group’s share of the homeless population is more than double their share of the general population.
The proportion of Native Hawaiians and Pacific Islanders in the homeless population (1.3 percent) is 6.5 times higher than their proportion in the general population (0.2 percent).
Those identifying as Hispanic make up 18 percent of the general population but 21 percent of the homeless population.
Both Whites and Asians are significantly _under_represented among the homeless population.









						Racial Disparities in Homelessness in the United States
					

Most minority groups in the United States experience homelessness at higher rates than Whites, and therefore make up a disproportionate share of the homeless population: African Americans make up more than 40% of the homeless population, but represent 13 percent […]




					endhomelessness.org


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## Lisa558 (May 6, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yes, whites makeup most of the homeless because we are five times the size of the black population in this country.  Per capita however, most homeless are blacks:
> 
> 
> African Americans make up more than 40% of the homeless population, but represent 13 percent of the general population.
> ...


Yes, and the reason blacks are disproportionately poor…..and homeless…..and less educated…..and more criminal…..is because of their high out of wedlock birthrate.


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## Lisa558 (May 6, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yes, whites makeup most of the homeless because we are five times the size of the black population in this country.  Per capita however, most homeless are blacks:
> 
> 
> African Americans make up more than 40% of the homeless population, but represent 13 percent of the general population.
> ...


P.S. Any stats on what percent of Jews are homeless? I bet it’s negligible.


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## Ray From Cleveland (May 6, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yes, and the reason blacks are disproportionately poor…..and homeless…..and less educated…..and more criminal…..is because of their high out of wedlock birthrate.



It's more than just that.  As that one link I posted states, their research shows that a third of all black males have a felony record.  Right there that will disqualify a person from better paying jobs no matter what race you are.  Then there is the question of what you do with that money you can make.  Are you going to use it on drugs, the newest iPhone, an apartment that takes you check to check to afford?  

I made real estate investments in my mid 30's along with an IRA my employer started and contributed to.  I had to work at that real estate investment and it's paying off today, not because of my skin color, but what I did differently than these racist paranoid people here and across the country.  Every single one of them could have done what I did throughout life.  
Children are a large part of it.  As I stated earlier in the conversation, the CDC estimates that it will cost a parent $233,000 to raise a middle-class child from birth until the age of 18.  But there is more to it such as education, getting into a field of work where you're in demand, unnecessary spending, investments, staying off of drugs and not getting in trouble with the law.  These are all things anybody (including blacks) can do, and many have.  

However if you don't do one (or more) of these things and sit back screaming racism the rest of your life instead of screaming at the person in the mirror, you will always be a failure in life because you refuse to come to terms that your situation is your own doing.


----------



## Lisa558 (May 6, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It's more than just that.  As that one link I posted states, their research shows that a third of all black males have a felony record.  Right there that will disqualify a person from better paying jobs no matter what race you are.  Then there is the question of what you do with that money you can make.  Are you going to use it on drugs, the newest iPhone, an apartment that takes you check to check to afford?
> 
> I made real estate investments in my mid 30's along with an IRA my employer started and contributed to.  I had to work at that real estate investment and it's paying off today, not because of my skin color, but what I did differently than these racist paranoid people here and across the country.  Every single one of them could have done what I did throughout life.
> Children are a large part of it.  As I stated earlier in the conversation, the CDC estimates that it will cost a parent $233,000 to raise a middle-class child from birth until the age of 18.  But there is more to it such as education, getting into a field of work where you're in demand, unnecessary spending, investments, staying off of drugs and not getting in trouble with the law.  These are all things anybody (including blacks) can do, and many have.
> ...


But it all comes down to their having the majority of their kids when they’re young, unmarried, and unable to support them - including all the felonies. Single motherhood is correlated with poverty, which in turn is correlated with low educational attainment, which in turn is correlated with high crime rates.

It is both depressing and infuriating that the black deniers on this thread insist on blaming historical racism for the failures among blacks TODAY, or even a generation ago, instead of their own choices - and that any white person pointing this out is called evil, racist, white supremacist, what have you.

The key that shows that racism is not to blame for black poverty today is that the majority of blacks are not in poverty. Most are working to middle class. And I’ve asked the same question repeatedly, and never get an answer (because the answer shows it’s personal choice that matters): If racism is to blame for blacks living in poverty, why are MOST blacks not in poverty? What is different about THOSE blacks, who are the majority of them?


----------



## JoeB131 (May 6, 2022)

JoeMoma said:


> I would not be surprised if IM2 does experience hypertension from brooding over his perceived white racism 24/7. On the other hand, I doubt the average black is constantly brooding over white racism all the time because they are too busy simply living their lives.
> 
> I'm not saying that racism is not a problem, but we have come a long way since the 1960s.



And we still have a long way to go.  

I like most of what IM posts, but sometimes he goes off on weird tangents.  Sometimes I go off on weird tangents.


----------



## JoeMoma (May 6, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> And we still have a long way to go


How much... as a percentage.? Have we made it 25% of the way yet? 50%, 75%? 90%?


----------



## JoeB131 (May 6, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It's more than just that. As that one link I posted states, their research shows that a third of all black males have a felony record. Right there that will disqualify a person from better paying jobs no matter what race you are. Then there is the question of what you do with that money you can make. Are you going to use it on drugs, the newest iPhone, an apartment that takes you check to check to afford?



Again, 100 Million Americans have a police record, about 30% of Americans. 

The problem here is that white people get probation and rehab, black men get felony records.  This is pretty much the ROT at the root of our system. 

People I grew up with got into all sorts of trouble as young people...  and didn't come out of it with any record.  because WHITE PRIVILEGE.   



Ray From Cleveland said:


> I made real estate investments in my mid 30's along with an IRA my employer started and contributed to. I had to work at that real estate investment and it's paying off today, not because of my skin color, but what I did differently than these racist paranoid people here and across the country. Every single one of them could have done what I did throughout life.



Yet you still live in a slum and collect a government check...


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 7, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> and I never said my people were the only ones that suffered. But my people moved beyond it, by and large, even though the worst of it happened in the lifetimes of those still alive today -  and you are still quoting legal cases from 1857 to justify why your people have a 75% OOW rate that contributes DIRECTLY to their poverty.
> 
> And you’re not right. Giving examples of some successful single mothers does not negate the facts: the is a direct correlation between having babies you can’t afford OOW, and poverty. Blacks have a HORRIBLE pattern of having babies first, often as teens, and then you’re going to blame 1857 mores on black poverty?


There you go again, you're harping on what you claim black people are doing.  

Why is it always specific to black people with you?  You act as if ONLY poor black people have babies they can't afford when there are plenty of poor white people who also have babies they can't afford.  In fact, there are more white people living in poverty and on welfare than black people,  

So since there are more of you all, why are you not riding their asses about getting it together and staying in school and stop having babies they can't afford?

This is HERE, this is specifically what makes you keep looking like a racist because your comments don't come from a place of concern or caring, only from you looking down on everyone else whom in your mind is inferior to you.

I have tried to be patient with you because I don't know what other mental deficiencies you might have, other than being racist and we were taught you just don't go around beating up on people who are disadvantaged.  But you have been told repeatedly that the things you are saying are not true so I will tell you this.  Black people have been living in what now constitutes the United States for several centuries.  The Jewish refugees fleeing Hitler only arrived here in the 1940s.  If you are unable to do the math, then I guess your problems are bigger than I ever guessed but continuing to falsely claim that the Jewish people have been targeted MORE than black people in America simply makes you a liar.  

You know it and we all know that you know it because you don't even bother to show anything in support of your lies. 

I don't know which one of you is deeper in denial, you or Ray.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 7, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> But it all comes down to their having the majority of their kids when they’re young, unmarried, and unable to support them - including all the felonies. Single motherhood is correlated with poverty, which in turn is correlated with low educational attainment, which in turn is correlated with high crime rates.
> 
> It is both depressing and infuriating that the black deniers on this thread insist on blaming historical racism for the failures among blacks TODAY, or even a generation ago, instead of their own choices - and that any white person pointing this out is called evil, racist, white supremacist, what have you.
> 
> The key that shows that racism is not to blame for black poverty today is that the majority of blacks are not in poverty. Most are working to middle class. And I’ve asked the same question repeatedly, and never get an answer (because the answer shows it’s personal choice that matters): If racism is to blame for blacks living in poverty, why are MOST blacks not in poverty? What is different about THOSE blacks, who are the majority of them?


Why didn't answer my question about how it came about that the Jewish people received reparations?  And why?


----------



## Paul Essien (May 7, 2022)

So now, without our permission, money is debited from blk ppl's account to help white ppl in Ukraine. A people who are not too fond of blacks


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 7, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Yes, and the reason blacks are disproportionately poor…..and homeless…..and less educated…..and more criminal…..is because of their high out of wedlock birthrate.


F


----------



## Lisa558 (May 7, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> There you go again, you're harping on what you claim black people are doing.
> 
> Why is it always specific to black people with you?  You act as if ONLY poor black people have babies they can't afford when there are plenty of poor white people who also have babies they can't afford.  In fact, there are more white people living in poverty and on welfare than black people,
> 
> ...


I don’t read your entire diatribes, since all you do is ask the same questions and make the same attacks and the same false arguments.

For the umoteenth time, the reason I am targeting poor black people is because we whites are being falsely blamed for their bad choices and resulting poverty. it was right in the title of the thread.

And Jews have been persecuted HORRIBLY for millennia. You are twisting around to explain why Jews, living in this country in the 1940s and suffering the worse loss imaginable - the loss of their families to torture and murder - still were able to see their children graduate from college. You just won’t admit it, because that would mean you would have to hold blacks responsible for their own decisions and kill your “oppressed victims” CRT crap.

Blacks in poverty - in Chicago, in Detroit, in DC, wherever - are so because they have a horrible out-of-wedlock rate.  Once they correct that behavior, and start taking responsibility for their own actions, the poverty rate among blacks would drop significantly,


----------



## Lisa558 (May 7, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Why didn't answer my question about how it came about that the Jewish people received reparations?  And why?


HUH? You are comparing the reparations Holocaust survivors got to blacks today? Holocaust survivors who were directly impacted - suffering lifelong physical ailments and their homes and property - got modest payments from Germany.

People who did not suffer a direct loss - such as my grandmother who had her family killed - got nothing. Blacks today have suffered no direct loss, and in recent generations, actually have gotten favorable treatment, particularly in college admissions, and in liberal cities, favoritism for hiring and promotions.

White people owe black people NOTHING other than to hold them to the same standards as everyone else.


----------



## Lisa558 (May 7, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Why didn't answer my question about how it came about that the Jewish people received reparations?  And why?


And why didn’t you answer my question as to why 75% of blacks are NOT living in poverty?


----------



## Lisa558 (May 7, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> There you go again, you're harping on what you claim black people are doing.
> 
> Why is it always specific to black people with you?  You act as if ONLY poor black people have babies they can't afford when there are plenty of poor white people who also have babies they can't afford.  In fact, there are more white people living in poverty and on welfare than black people,
> 
> ...


Also, you ask me why I’m not riding black people’s asses to stay in school and stop having all these babies? Look at YOUR reaction when I say that. I’m sure I’d be welcomed with open arms into a poor Blaxk DC neighborhood and start telling them what they need to do.

No - that’s up to YOU and other blacks. But that won’t happen becuae you’re stuck blaming their problems on whitey for stuff that happened generations ago.


----------



## JoeB131 (May 7, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> So now, without our permission, money is debited from blk ppl's account to help white ppl in Ukraine. A people who are not too fond of blacks



So don't eat there.  

My guess is this guy was probably given an option on cash out, "Do you want to donate 1 to Ukraine relief" and he pressed yes.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 7, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> So now, without our permission, money is debited from blk ppl's account to help white ppl in Ukraine. A people who are not too fond of blacks



Is that a black only restaurant or something?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 7, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> Why is it always specific to black people with you? You act as if ONLY poor black people have babies they can't afford when there are plenty of poor white people who also have babies they can't afford. In fact, there are more white people living in poverty and on welfare than black people,
> 
> So since there are more of you all, why are you not riding their asses about getting it together and staying in school and stop having babies they can't afford?



For one, the only reason there are "more of us" is because we are five times your population, not because you are doing better than us in welfare, teen pregnancy, violent crime.  Per capita (which is the only intelligent way to measure outcomes) speaks the exact opposite story.

White people do have kids they can't afford, but the difference is we are not blaming anybody but the individual for their own choices whereas you and other blacks refuse to accept any responsibility for the actions of people in your race.  You make excuses for them.  We don't do that with white teens or any white that can't afford children.  In fact we chastise them for being irresponsible. 



NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> I have tried to be patient with you because I don't know what other mental deficiencies you might have, other than being racist and we were taught you just don't go around beating up on people who are disadvantaged. But you have been told repeatedly that the things you are saying are not true so I will tell you this. Black people have been living in what now constitutes the United States for several centuries. The Jewish refugees fleeing Hitler only arrived here in the 1940s. If you are unable to do the math, then I guess your problems are bigger than I ever guessed but continuing to falsely claim that the Jewish people have been targeted MORE than black people in America simply makes you a liar.
> 
> You know it and we all know that you know it because you don't even bother to show anything in support of your lies.
> 
> I don't know which one of you is deeper in denial, you or Ray.



Nobody is in denial of anything other than the concept that your misfortunes have to do with people you never met in your life.  The only reason Lisa brings up her family and what they went through is to make the point other people who's family suffered major setbacks didn't use their heritage as a crutch for their own misfortunes.  I told you how my father and his family were raised; growing up poor, in a house the size of a three car garage, no indoor plumbing or electricity, taking handouts from whoever was kind enough to offer them at the time.  He said the only reason he joined the military and fought in the Korean war was to see what it was like to not go to bed starving. 

What my father went through has nothing to do with how I turned out.  The only fortune I have being white is that I was raised in a two-parent home, but that's not exclusive to whites, that environment is for anybody to create.  My father taught me how to work, the value of money, my parents taught me personal responsibility, religion, total respect for our police and law in general.  My father was not a guy that got me and my siblings every other weekend.  My father was there for us every single day and night. 

I know you probably won't read it, but I'm going to post this article by my favorite economist, Dr. Walter E Williams.  Make an exception this time because it's a very short read from a brilliant black man who made his way to prominence at a time when some of these bad things were happening to some blacks. 





__





						Walter Williams: Black Self-Sabotage
					

Walter  Williams



					jewishworldreview.com


----------



## Lisa558 (May 7, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> For one, the only reason there are "more of us" is because we are five times your population, not because you are doing better than us in welfare, teen pregnancy, violent crime.  Per capita (which is the only intelligent way to measure outcomes) speaks the exact opposite story.
> 
> White people do have kids they can't afford, but the difference is we are not blaming anybody but the individual for their own choices whereas you and other blacks refuse to accept any responsibility for the actions of people in your race.  You make excuses for them.  We don't do that with white teens or any white that can't afford children.  In fact we chastise them for being irresponsible.
> 
> ...


Thanks for explaining to Vine - once again - why I bring up my family, but she won’t get it. (And she tells ME that I’m the one who is mentally defective!)

That‘s a great article you posted, but Vine won’t read it because not only is she closed off to to the truth, but it appeared in the Jewish Journal (albeit written by a black man), and she is quite resentful of a persecuted minority whose members achieve above-average success, and in short order, despite all the bigotry against them.

The author brings up a point, and something I’ve been trying to say. How come ALL OF A SUDDEN blacks are going backwards, and now blaming it on whitey? As he points out, in the 1940s, the black OOW birthrate was only 14% - and that was despite much of the black community living within Jim Crow laws, and not allowed to drink at the white fountain, or sit at the white restaurant counter.

So how can angry deniers - who constantly reverts to insults and screeches of “raaaaacist” - explain why blacks are making worse decisions NOW, with 75% of babies born to unwed mothers, when during the era of Jim Crow and true racism, they were overwhemingly  part of stable, two-parent homes?

The answer is: the Democrats, starting with LBJ, told blacks that husbands were unnecessary because the government would provide. They thus broke down the strong black family unit, and the result is poverty and the resulting higher crime and school dropouts.

(But that does beg the question: the same offer is made to whites, yet they are not deciding to have 75% of their babies out of wedlock.)

Regardless, it does show that the Dems are blacks’ worst enemies.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 7, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Thanks for explaining to Vine - once again - why I bring up my family, but she won’t get it. (And she tells ME that I’m the one who is mentally defective!)
> 
> That‘s a great article you posted, but Vine won’t read it because not only is she closed off to to the truth, but it appeared in the Jewish Journal (albeit written by a black man), and she is quite resentful of a persecuted minority whose members achieve above-average success, and in short order, despite all the bigotry against them.
> 
> ...



I think Professor Williams joined the Jewish religion, but don't hold me to that.

In any case his quote that black fathers were replaced by a welfare check hits home.  You and I are both old enough to remember the lefts push for single-parent homes back in the 70's.  They basically told us the father was only a sperm donor and no longer needed after pregnancy.  It wasn't a black or white thing, it was a leftist thing that blacks took whole heartedly. 

 Fast forward to today and the feminist movement is pretty much gone, but the damage left behind is tragic especially for the black communities across the country.  I don't care if a father is involved with his children or not, nothing beats a two-parent household.  IMO, both parents need to raise children full-time.  I know that isn't possible in some cases, but at least the goal should be there.  Whites didn't invent the term _baby daddies_, yes, that's plural. 

But even according to the left, single mothers is a plague on the black community.  When the left admits this, it's hard for anybody to make an argument against it.









						PolitiFact - CNN's Don Lemon says more than 72 percent of African-American births are out of wedlock
					

In the middle of a national conversation about race following the George Zimmerman acquittal, CNN anchor Don Lemon gave




					www.politifact.com


----------



## Lisa558 (May 7, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I think Professor Williams joined the Jewish religion, but don't hold me to that.
> 
> In any case his quote that black fathers were replaced by a welfare check hits home.  You and I are both old enough to remember the lefts push for single-parent homes back in the 70's.  They basically told us the father was only a sperm donor and no longer needed after pregnancy.  It wasn't a black or white thing, it was a leftist thing that blacks took whole heartedly.
> 
> ...


It’s obviously at the root of their problems, but as long as defiant, angry, resentful blacks and their self-loathing white enablers blame whites and quote 19th legal decisions (and scream “raaaacist” at anyone who points out the root of the problems ) instead of acknowledging responsibility for their own choices - they will never solve this.


----------



## Paul Essien (May 7, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> So don't eat there.
> 
> My guess is this guy was probably given an option on cash out, "Do you want to donate 1 to Ukraine relief" and he pressed yes.



The money always comes for white and non blk immigrants.









Ukrainean women will marry USA white men to "whiten" their names for their children. The men will also marry white USA women and whiten there names or make them more angliced to fit in. Like many white jews do

Woody Allen = Allen Konigsberg
Fred Astaire = Frederick Austerlitz
Tony Bennett = Anthony Benedetto
Jack Benny = Benjamin Kubelsky
Mel Brooks = Mel Kaminsky
George Burns = Nathan Birnbaum
Nicolas Cage = Nicolas Coppola
David Copperfield = David Seth Kotkin
Kirk Douglas = Issur Danielovitch Demsky
Helen Mirren = Ilynea Lydia Mironoff
Demi Moore = Demetria Guynes
Chuck Norris = Carlos Ray Norris

They will get low interest loans, free housing, food stamps, etc. All from blk tax dollars and Black Americans don’t get anything and in generations to come these American sounding Ukraineans will have surnames like Johnson, Miller, Smith and Williams

Then in 50 years time you'll have ukraine versions of Lisa558 who'll run around and tell black people _"My family came over from Ukraine. We were facing persecution and war. But my parents came to the USA, worked hard to provide for their family to make me the person I am today. We didn't moan and complain. Why you can't you blk Americans do the same ?"_

Even this week

__

And the real natives won’t get it…the 5 dollar Hawaiians will aka white and Asian…most Hawaiians fighting over their lands most already pushed out this is a finesse big time bro


----------



## Paul Essien (May 7, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> It’s obviously at the root of their problems, but as long as defiant, angry, resentful blacks and their self-loathing white enablers blame whites and quote 19th legal decisions (and scream “raaaacist” at anyone who points out the root of the problems ) instead of acknowledging responsibility for their own choices - they will never solve this.


Barack Obama had no kids out wedlock.

He world hard.
He was successful.
He was a good father.
He didn't cheat on his wife.
He spoke in a way that was acceptable to whites.
He didn't sag his his pants
He did little about the mass incarceration of black men
He did little about racial profiling.
He did little about police brutality
He did little about black poverty.
He did little about sky high black unemployment.
He did little about high rates of black infant mortality.
He did little about racial segregation in housing and education.
He did little about the growing wealth gap.
He did little aboutor about gun control until white children were gunned down.
Aand say what you want about his presidency...there was not one bit of personal scandal against that man in two terms of offiice.

Yet despite all that he got more racism (and his wife) than any black man alive. Got more death threats that any POTUS ever

You only need to look at the disrespect Obama was treated with; Like when white female Jan Brewer (Arizona governor) wagging her finger in his face in full view of TV cameras






Yet when Vice-Prez Cheney (_a white male_) shot a man in the heart in a hunting accident, the man (_with less power_) apologized to Cheney for “_…causing his family so much trouble_…”







That’s what respect looks like

Even black people in Harvard get the same sh*t

*

*

White racism is irrational and self-serving. It cannot be “disproved”, only confirmed. Stereotypes are based on confirmation bias. So all it takes are a few bad apples for Whites to think their stereotypes are true: “I’ve been attacked – jumped by blacks.”

No matter how many degrees you have, no matter how nicely you dress, no matter how “articulate” you are, Whites will still see blks as a “n&ggers”. Or as an “exception” who, deep down, is still a n&gger. Not because blk person is, but because whites need to see blk ppl that way. To feel good about themselves. To feel that American society and their place in it is not a huge fraud. Black degradation is novocaine for white souls.

Lisa558 
*Yes, and the reason blacks are disproportionately poor…..and homeless…..and less educated…..and more criminal…..is because of their high out of wedlock birthrate.*

Funny that white people could fly planes into buildings, shoot up movie theaters, schools, religious buildings, rape children both here and abroad (_Korea, Bangkok, recently Kenya_) commit multiple acts of domestic terrorism and crimes against humanity yet never have to prove their humanity to anyone


----------



## Paul Essien (May 7, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland 
*IIs that a black only restaurant or something?*

I very much doubt that a black owned restaurant would be debiting black people bank acounts for a bunch of white immigrants that hate black people.

*I very much doubt that.*

Black business are always sabotaged.


A successful Black business is being sabotaged with lawsuits from residents claiming the Turkey Leg smoke is a "noxious" health risk.

These suspected racist “environmentalists” all of sudden they “care” about the earth when comes to blk ppl. I don’t see them bringing that same energy to theses white owned factories that pollute the air non stop.

Whenever black people as a group prosper, the white supremacists have always sabotaged that progress with NO exceptions

White supremacists are always doing stuff.






And despite all this many black people still become successful without any help and in spite of systematic sabotage. You are so inept, you need a system of non-justice to sabotage an entire group because you can’t compete with black men equally

No white man feels superior to a black man. Stop coping.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 7, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Ray From Cleveland
> *IIs that a black only restaurant or something?*
> 
> I very much doubt that a black owned restaurant would be debiting black people bank acounts for a bunch of white immigrants that hate black people.
> ...



So, this store is drawing problem people to the mall.  Surprise surprise they want to get rid of them to try and stop future problems.  A triple shooting?  Gang fights as always with blacks?  Yeah, I'd want to get rid of them to.  We do the same thing in my suburb.  When police are constantly called to a bar for fights, shootings or knife injuries, the city votes to get rid of them.  That's what taxpaying communities want.


----------



## AZrailwhale (May 7, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> So now, without our permission, money is debited from blk ppl's account to help white ppl in Ukraine. A people who are not too fond of blacks


Give it a break Paul.  That's the restaurant, and if you don't want to pay it, have them take it off the bill.  They have to unless there is a sign somewhere that mandatory donations for Ukraine will be added to all checks.  I very much doubt there is such a sign because that would be illegal.


----------



## Lisa558 (May 7, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Give it a break Paul.  That's the restaurant, and if you don't want to pay it, have them take it off the bill.  They have to unless there is a sign somewhere that mandatory donations for Ukraine will be added to all checks.  I very much doubt there is such a sign because that would be illegal.


The Ukrainian people are suffering unspeakable losses, and I think it’s commendable that this restaurant wants to raise money to help them. I myself gave to a fund, just as I have with other disasters - for wars, earthquakes, etc. i never gave a thought as to whether whites or blacks would be the beneficiaries. I believe that the Haitian earthquake affected mostly blacks, and I gave to that.

 I say if the racist black man above doesn’t want to donate to white people in need, then he doesn’t have to. But he does lose standing to accuse white posters of being racists.


----------



## AZrailwhale (May 7, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> The money always comes for white and non blk immigrants.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Paul,
Black African nations get far more aid than Ukraine does and have every year since 1960.  In 2012 alone Black African countries got twelve billion dollars in free money from the US taxpayer.  In FY 2021 $5,200,000,000.00 of UIS taxpayers dollars are going to Black African countries, in FY 2019 they got $7,100,000,000.00 in aid.  That's not loans of grants from the UN, that's money direct from Uncle Sam (meaning you and I)  Over the last decade before the war, Ukraine got between $300,000,000.00 and 500,000,000.00 a year.


----------



## Paul Essien (May 7, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> So, this store is drawing problem people to the mall.  Surprise surprise they want to get rid of them to try and stop future problems.  A triple shooting?  Gang fights as always with blacks?  Yeah, I'd want to get rid of them to.  We do the same thing in my suburb.  When police are constantly called to a bar for fights, shootings or knife injuries, the city votes to get rid of them.  That's what taxpaying communities want.


What are you babbling about ?

White people have been the most violent ppl ever to walk this.

And I’m pretty sure you know that


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 7, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> What are you babbling about ?
> 
> White people have been the most violent ppl ever to walk this.
> 
> And I’m pretty sure you know that



I'm talking about yet another of your hundred false claims it's about race instead of actions.  

The difference between white people and blacks are we became more civilized as time went on and you became less civilized.


----------



## Paul Essien (May 7, 2022)

AZrailwhale
*Black African nations get far more aid than Ukraine does and have every year since 1960. In 2012 alone Black African countries got twelve billion dollars in free money from the US taxpayer. In FY*

There is no such thing as aid. White supremacists just play *GOOD COP  BAD COP*. 

They go into Africa and use scorched earth policy were they fk up the earth so they can grow anything. Put Cholera in the water to make the people go bline etc. 

Spread diseases like Ebola. They kill the women and men and children for their hearts and lungs for organ harvesting then pretend to be good cop by giving them a bag of rice in exchange for a bag od diamonds.

White supremacist good cops also have a system were the World bank (_A white supremacist organisation_) gives out credits to African countries thereby holding them hostage through debt. The payback is done by getting more resources at low prices. Meanwhile local infrastructures are crumbling. Social programmes and local developments are cut because of the paybacks.

The white supremacists also expects from their _‘generous gestures’_ positive votes at the next UN assembly. Any African who goes against it ? They threaten the local authorities to pull their funds out or threaten them to initiate another government turnover.

White supremacist don’t want Africans or black countries in charge of their own destiny.

Colonel Gaddifi was trying to create a central African bank and an African communication network. Africa is a massive source for mobile phone networks and internet. Africans make billions for the white supremacists. Gaddifi plan went against there wishes. So he had to be killed.

*Take a country in Africa like South Africa*

So whites go into a country like South Africa and do this to black South Africans.






And impose laws like this






And because of that are living like this in South Africa






Many white South Africans have moved to Australia but guess what ? They're unhappy. They traded living among the upper class in South Africa to living in the lower class in Australia or NZ.

It bums them out that they can't go to restaurants and mistreat the black employees. They long to back in the good old days in SA when not only white men were shooting black south Africans but their women were too.






But those dam blacks!!! Why can't they be happy at being shitted on ?













I mean black South Africans should be happy to live like this right ?






These white South Africans took everything and now they want to vilify people who are experiencing more suffering than they'll ever know. Suffering they caused.

And the fact is that a big majority of black South African's can't afford to be online. So propaganda spreads without any actual black South Africans defending themselves.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 7, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The Ukrainian people are suffering unspeakable losses, and I think it’s commendable that this restaurant wants to raise money to help them. I myself gave to a fund, just as I have with other disasters - for wars, earthquakes, etc. i never gave a thought as to whether whites or blacks would be the beneficiaries. I believe that the Haitian earthquake affected mostly blacks, and I gave to that.
> 
> I say if the racist black man above doesn’t want to donate to white people in need, then he doesn’t have to. But he does lose standing to accuse white posters of being racists.



And I'd love to see if there was a sign alerting people that was their new policy.  I can't believe they just charge people for something without prior notification.


----------



## Paul Essien (May 7, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland
*I'm talking about yet another of your hundred false claims it's about race instead of actions. The difference between white people and blacks are we became more civilized as time went on and you became less civilized.*

OK. What's civilized about white people ?


----------



## Lisa558 (May 7, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Ray From Cleveland
> *I'm talking about yet another of your hundred false claims it's about race instead of actions. The difference between white people and blacks are we became more civilized as time went on and you became less civilized.*
> 
> OK. What's civilized about white people ?


Damn but you are one of the nastiest racist blacks on this forum.


----------



## Paul Essien (May 7, 2022)

Lisa558
*Damn but you are one of the nastiest racist blacks on this forum.*

So a white person like Ray From Cleveland writing that _"White people are civilised and black ppl are uncivilized"_ is not racist

But me asking_ "What's civilized about white people"_ is racist.

OK. Got it.

Black people have done nothing to white people, nothing to anyone..So let's be clear on who is racist here

Let's say I am racist. so what ? You still get the job. You still get the loan. You still get the car. You're still given the benefit ot the doubt 

You are still white. So that means Employers, loan officers, police, teachers, and average everyday folks on the street would look at you, presume your whiteness, and treat you accordingly. 

So the presumptions of competence, and law-abidingness, and credit-worthiness, and general intelligence wiykd be given. Things that no black man or women can assume other will presume about us.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 7, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Ray From Cleveland
> *I'm talking about yet another of your hundred false claims it's about race instead of actions. The difference between white people and blacks are we became more civilized as time went on and you became less civilized.*
> 
> OK. What's civilized about white people ?



The fact we've become less and less violent as time went on.  Today, over half of all US murders are committed by just 7% of our population, and that are black males.  Blacks as a whole represent 13% of our population and whites are 61%.


----------



## AZrailwhale (May 7, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> AZrailwhale
> *Black African nations get far more aid than Ukraine does and have every year since 1960. In 2012 alone Black African countries got twelve billion dollars in free money from the US taxpayer. In FY*
> 
> There is no such thing as aid. White supremacists just play *GOOD COP  BAD COP*.
> ...


You’re a idiot.  I post verifiable facts and you resort to lies and disproven propaganda.  Grow up.


----------



## Paul Essien (May 8, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> The fact we've become less and less violent as time went on.  Today, over half of all US murders are committed by just 7% of our population, and that are black males.  Blacks as a whole represent 13% of our population and whites are 61%.


Hmm so what is it about us black men that makes us just so violent, barbaric and savage ?


----------



## JoeB131 (May 8, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Thanks for explaining to Vine - once again - why I bring up my family, but she won’t get it. (And she tells ME that I’m the one who is mentally defective!)
> 
> That‘s a great article you posted, but Vine won’t read it because not only is she closed off to to the truth, but it appeared in the Jewish Journal (albeit written by a black man), and she is quite resentful of a persecuted minority whose members achieve above-average success, and in short order, despite all the bigotry against them.



Religion isn't a race. 

The problem that all immigrants use is that "well, we did well, so why can't blacks?" is that at a certain point, we are considered "White enough".    Usually within one or two generations of getting off the boat.  

Every immigrant group can tell a sad story about how they were discriminated against by the WASP's - Jews, Catholics, German, Irish, Italians, Poles.  

But there's a certain point where we are considered white enough to access the mainstream.  More access than Native Americans and African-Americans have gotten, discrimination against them in written into the founding documents and has been institutionalized for hundreds of years.  

At the end of the day, Jews CHOSE to be Americans (despite their dual loyalty to the Zionist Entity).  Blacks didn't have any say in the matter.  They were kidnapped, subjected to 250 years of slavery, 100 years of Jim Crow, and maybe 50 years of almost being treated as an equal and no one using the N-word to their face.


----------



## JoeB131 (May 8, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> The author brings up a point, and something I’ve been trying to say. How come ALL OF A SUDDEN blacks are going backwards, and now blaming it on whitey? As he points out, in the 1940s, the black OOW birthrate was only 14% - and that was despite much of the black community living within Jim Crow laws, and not allowed to drink at the white fountain, or sit at the white restaurant counter.
> 
> So how can angry deniers - who constantly reverts to insults and screeches of “raaaaacist” - explain why blacks are making worse decisions NOW, with 75% of babies born to unwed mothers, when during the era of Jim Crow and true racism, they were overwhemingly part of stable, two-parent homes?



Um, Lisa, the WHITE OOW rate has also increased since the 1940's.  And that is with the advent of effective contraceptives and the legalization of abortion. 

32% of WHITE kids are born out of wedlock today, compared to 4% in 1952. (It was 22% for blacks.) 







As an aside, the 1940's are probably not a good starting point, as most of the available men were conscripted into federal service, and most of the women were working in factories. 

So let's review-
Blacks jumped from 22% to 70%. - a 318% increase.  Sounds awful
Hispanics jumped from 12% to 57%.  - a 475% increase. 
White people jumped from 4% fo 32%- an 800% increase!!!!

And this is DESPITE the ready availability of both contraceptives and abortion after the 1970's..  Despite that, the numbers kept climbing. 

Why? Because back in 1952, there was a societal expectation that if you knocked a girl up, you dropped out of whatever you were doing and married her and got a job.  Today, you have other options.  The woman can work.  She can get an abortion. She could have used the pill.

Frankly, how many people got locked into awful marriages with women they didn't really care about because society insisted they do so.


----------



## JoeB131 (May 8, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Hmm so what is it about us black men that makes us just so violent, barbaric and savage ?



Better question- why are black people who aren't violent willing to put up with the ones who are?  
We have our bad seeds in the white community.  The kid everyone knew was going to end up bad from Grade School.  and this funny thing, when they got old enough to get into real trouble, we either straightened them out or we got rid of them.


----------



## JoeB131 (May 8, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> In any case his quote that black fathers were replaced by a welfare check hits home. You and I are both old enough to remember the lefts push for single-parent homes back in the 70's. They basically told us the father was only a sperm donor and no longer needed after pregnancy. It wasn't a black or white thing, it was a leftist thing that blacks took whole heartedly.
> 
> Fast forward to today and the feminist movement is pretty much gone, but the damage left behind is tragic especially for the black communities across the country. I don't care if a father is involved with his children or not, nothing beats a two-parent household. IMO, both parents need to raise children full-time. I know that isn't possible in some cases, but at least the goal should be there. Whites didn't invent the term _baby daddies_, yes, that's plural.
> 
> But even according to the left, single mothers is a plague on the black community. When the left admits this, it's hard for anybody to make an argument against it.



I know I've humiliated WELFARE RAY so many times...  so he doesn't read my posts,...  But out of wedlock births are increasingly becoming the norm for ALL Races.   32% of WHITE kids are born out of wedlock.   it's just not the stigma it used to be.  



Paul Essien said:


> The money always comes for white and non blk immigrants.



Um, yeah. And a lot of money goes to black people in this country, what's your point? 
Also, why do you keep using European sources for news?  that kind of makes me think you are a Russian Troll pretending to be a black guy.  As do the frequent misspellings. 



Paul Essien said:


> Ukrainean women will marry USA white men to "whiten" their names for their children. The men will also marry white USA women and whiten there names or make them more angliced to fit in. Like many white jews do



Actually, that's kind of always been the case, though.  For instance, when my Grandfather came here from Germany in 1925, he stopped calling himself "Ludwig" and started calling himself "Louis".   He also changed the way we pronounce the family name, replacing the hard U with a soft U.  (Although I suspect that wasn't intentionally, he just got tired of correcting people.)  

Ukrainian women find American husbands for the same reason that Filipina women do... because they want in and American men don't like to deal with American women and their bullshit.  Sometimes those marriages even last after she gets her citizenship!  



Paul Essien said:


> They will get low interest loans, free housing, food stamps, etc. All from blk tax dollars and Black Americans don’t get anything and in generations to come these American sounding Ukraineans will have surnames like Johnson, Miller, Smith and Williams
> 
> Then in 50 years time you'll have ukraine versions of @Lisa558 who'll run around and tell black people _"My family came over from Ukraine. We were facing persecution and war. But my parents came to the USA, worked hard to provide for their family to make me the person I am today. We didn't moan and complain. Why you can't you blk Americans do the same ?"_



And they'd probably be right.  

I've pointed out that there is discrimination in hiring in that resumes with names like "Jamal" and "Lakeisha" are less likely to get callbacks than names like "Greg" and "Emily".  

Part of that is racism, without a doubt, but part of it picking goofy names that no one was using 50 years ago.  So while immigrants are finding ways to assimilate, blacks are finding ways to self-segregate.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 8, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Hmm so what is it about us black men that makes us just so violent, barbaric and savage ?



That I couldn't tell you.  You're black so you'd have more insight to that than I do.  What it seems to me is blacks are less capable of controlling their anger, so to the point we can't even have awards shows or a comedy night without them getting violent. 

Where I live it was mostly white when I moved here 35 years ago.  After blacks became over 50% of our population, the city had to halt 4th of July fireworks because you can''t assemble any large group of blacks without it turning into massive gang fights.  A local Catholic church used to hold their annual carnival which we all looked forward to.  Same thing.  It turned violent and they had to stop doing that after generations of safe, successful events that we enjoyed.


----------



## Paul Essien (May 8, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland 
*That I couldn't tell you. You're black so you'd have more insight to that than I do. *

Well shit I don't know. You're the superior calm rational white male...No ? You tell me. I can't competer with you dude.

Ray From Cleveland 
*What it seems to me is blacks are less capable of controlling their anger, *

OK. So why is that ?

Ray From Cleveland 
*Where I live it was mostly white when I moved here 35 years ago. After blacks became over 50%of our population, the city had to halt 4th of July fireworks because you can''t assemble any large group of blacks without it turning into massive gang fights. A local Catholic church used to hold their annual carnival which we all looked forward to. Same thing. It turned violent and they had to stop doing that after generations of safe, successful events that we enjoyed.*

Well I'm only getting your side the story. The black people in Clevleand are not here to defend themselves


----------



## Paul Essien (May 8, 2022)

JoeB131
*Um, yeah. And a lot of money goes to black people in this country, what's your point?*

OK. Like what ?

JoeB131
*Also, why do you keep using European sources for news? that kind of makes me think you are a Russian Troll pretending to be a black guy. As do the frequent misspellings.*

Accusing someone of trolling is trolling. Me thinks considering your constent allegations of me being a troll that tells me that you're the troll. Once again. Accusing someone of trolling is trolling.

As for my misspellings ? That's says a lot about what I think of you. It says nothing about me. I don't really respect you enough to actually care if i misspell. People in the world worry about hunger or being poor. But white people's biggest worry is finding out that a person has used _‘their’_ when they should have used _‘there’"




_

If you want a white person to love you say this

“_Hey White Person. I'm sending this cover letter out for this job. Can you look this over for me and see if it's ok?”_

*It's impossible for a white person to turn down the opportunity to proofread.*

But look - I just type it out. Quickly glance over it and press the _"Post Reply*_ button.

Now sure if it was for someone serious or something serious my life, like a job or loved one or close family friend, then yeah I'd go over it, put it through MS word or put it through an online spell and grammar checker. But you and other white supremacist on USMB ? I don't give a sh*t.

JoeB131
*Actually, that's kind of always been the case, though. For instance, when my Grandfather came here from Germany in 1925, he stopped calling himself "Ludwig" and started calling himself "Louis". He also changed the way we pronounce the family name, replacing the hard U with a soft U. (Although I suspect that wasn't intentionally, he just got tired of correcting people.)*

Your grandfather gave up to the power of white supremacy. The desire for white normalcy from even white people who change their names to whitewash any hint of ethnicity.

So he gave up his real name (_Ludwig_) even though it denoted his ethnic German heritage and decided to call himslf (_Louis_) and I'm pretty sure your grandfather carried on the tradition of white immigrants anglicizing there names by giving his kids names like Anne, Connor and Tyler.

European names like Hans, Sven, Wladimir, Boris, Luka, Alessandro, Giuseppe are actually your white names from the Russian, German, Italian or various European places your lineage is from.

So all those those Russian, Polish, Irish, Scottish, German and Italian cultures, the languages, the history, the customs have been lost to such an extent that most white Americans are grasping at straws. You probably can't even speak German. You probably have relatives in Germany that you don't know sh*t about

But that had to be suppressed in the name of this pan-European unity called whiteness. I guess this is why whites Americans rage against multi-culuralism because you have been deculturated and this has been done, not by libs or lefties and for sure not by blks, you've been de-culturated by whiteness.

JoeB131
*Ukrainian women find American husbands for the same reason that Filipina women do... because they want in and American men don't like to deal with American women and their bullshit. Sometimes those marriages even last after she gets her citizenship!*

OK......ok..... Sounds like you wanna get something off your chest. Sounds like an American woman has dogged you out .........to the max. Get it off your chest ...boy

JoeB131 
*I've pointed out that there is discrimination in hiring in that resumes with names like "Jamal" and "Lakeisha" are less likely to get callbacks than names like "Greg" and "Emily".*

But if your a white dude and your name was ‘Bubba’ or ‘Jim Bob....no problem.

But a black man being named '_Jamal_’ or _‘Lakisha’ _is an automatic fail.

Even though Jamal is a masculine Arabic name that means _“Beautiful”_ or _“handsome.”_ It’s pretty widely used in the muslim world that spans a good part of the globe.

The Egyptian President, Jamal Abdel Nasser (1918–1970) is an Egyptian rendering of the name.

Lakisha is also an Arabic name, meaning “Alive” or _“She who lives.” _there is also an English variant, usually spelled _“Lakeisha”_ that means _“Joyful.”_

But neither name was invented in the ghetto, or somehow put together by illiterates. They're just names from another culture, that lean toward a Muslim asian world view rather than a Western Christian world view. There’s nothing ghetto about it.

But if black people give their children the whitest names out there like Cody, Connor, Wyatt, Amy, Claire, Katelyn, Molly racism will disappear then. Right ?

Go n ask the family of Mike.Brown, Eric Garner, Freddie Grey if having a so called white name protects you from racism.

JoeB131 
*Part of that is racism, without a doubt, but part of it picking goofy names that no one was using 50 years ago. *

I'd rather be a _Laquisha_ than a _Billy Bob, John Boy, Rebel Wilbur, Woody._

Why did white couple Gwyneth Paltrow and musician Chris Marten call their child "_Apple_ ?
Why did white actress Kate Winslet call her child "_Bear Blaze_" ?
Why did white singer Bono from U2 call his child "_Blue Angel_" ?
Why did white actor Tom Cruise call his child "_Suri_" ?
Why did white UK singe Ed Sheeran call his child "_Lyra Antarctica_ " ?
Why did white billionaire Elon Musk.....(_well he didn't even call his child a name_) he called by symbols "X Æ A-12
Why should black people have to think of names to please whites when whites don't think they have to think of names to please blacks ?

Your name is your name. Why should anyone have to change it for anyone else's convenience?

And whats with silly ass trend of white kids names?

Noah – where’s your ark ?

These feminine names white parents give their sons.

Madison, Caydan, Cayden, Jayden (girls and boys) Sierra (lets name our kids after a country in Africa) Tyler

JoeB131 
*So while immigrants are finding ways to assimilate, blacks are finding ways to self-segregate.*

The whole naming thing comes down to POWER.

No white person is concerned with naming their children to please blacks.

Why is that ?

No one is shaming them for their boring names. Anne. Jill. Emily

Why do white ppl think it's ok to tmake a first name out of a last name ? Like MacKenzie, or Parker ?
Why do white people love giving their children two last names ? Elijah Sadler-Moore ? What happens if this guy marries Amy Smith-Taylor ?

Does their kid end up with four last names?

*Love to see the College Lacrosse and Soccer Jerseys on that one.*


----------



## JoeB131 (May 8, 2022)

Wow, I think I really popped the Cork on Pavel Essenovich



Paul Essien said:


> As for my misspellings ? That's says a lot about what I think of you. It says nothing about me. I don't really respect you enough to actually care if i misspell. People in the world worry about hunger or being poor. But white people's biggest worry is finding out that a person has used _‘their’_ when they should have used _‘there’"_



Naw, Pavel, I stand with my original statement, that you are in a Troll Farm somewhere pretending to be a black man to stir up trouble.  Sounds like they've been cutting your borscht ration since Putin started losing the Ukraine war.   



Paul Essien said:


> Your grandfather gave up to the power of white supremacy. The desire for white normalcy from even white people who change their names to whitewash any hint of ethnicity.
> 
> So he gave up his real name (_Ludwig_) even though it denoted his ethnic German heritage and decided to call himslf (_Louis_) and I'm pretty sure your grandfather carried on the tradition of white immigrants anglicizing there names by giving his kids names like Anne, Connor and Tyler.



Meh, he named his son Rudolf, which is about as German as you can get.  My dad with with the spelling Rudolph, though.   I think when you got to my generation, is where you got all the "Americanized" names. Then again, Ludwig's middle name was Josef, so not that far.  



Paul Essien said:


> But if your a white dude and your name was ‘Bubba’ or ‘Jim Bob....no problem.
> 
> But a black man being named '_Jamal_’ or _‘Lakisha’ _is an automatic fail.


Well, first, those are nicknames, not proper names.  James Robert would be perfectly acceptable.  



Paul Essien said:


> It's impossible for a white person to turn down the opportunity to proofread.



Yes... this is how you win the race war... you scatter a bunch of documents with misspelling on them, and white people will just stop to proofread EVERYTHING, because we can't help ourselves! 



Paul Essien said:


> But neither name was invented in the ghetto, or somehow put together by illiterates. They're just names from another culture, that lean toward a Muslim asian world view rather than a Western Christian world view. There’s nothing ghetto about it.



That's the point, it's another culture.  NOT THIS CULTURE.  




Paul Essien said:


> Go n ask the family of Mike.Brown, Eric Garner, Freddie Grey if having a so called white name protects you from racism.



Naw, what would have protected those idiots was "doing exactly what the police tell you to do".  Immediately followed by "Don't go out and break laws to start with!"  



Paul Essien said:


> Madison, Caydan, Cayden, Jayden (girls and boys) Sierra (lets name our kids after a country in Africa) Tyler



You realize that Sierra is Spanish for Mountains, right... it's not just a country in Africa (I assume you mean Sierra Leone). 



Paul Essien said:


> Why do white ppl think it's ok to tmake a first name out of a last name ? Like MacKenzie, or Parker ?
> Why do white people love giving their children two last names ? Elijah Sadler-Moore ? What happens if this guy marries Amy Smith-Taylor ?



I would imagine they would go with a name like Sadler-Taylor.   If they continue the tradition.  Actually, it's not than usual, in the UK, hyphenated names are common.  



Paul Essien said:


> Why should black people have to think of names to please whites when whites don't think they have to think of names to please blacks ?



Um, because it's white people who are going to be doing the hiring!


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 8, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Ray From Cleveland
> *That I couldn't tell you. You're black so you'd have more insight to that than I do. *
> 
> Well shit I don't know. You're the superior calm rational white male...No ? You tell me. I can't competer with you dude.
> ...



How can anybody defend themselves when using violence?  There's an old Chinese proverb one of my martial arts teachers taught me many years ago:  Only use violence for self-defense, or when mind too weak to solve problem.  

Asian people are so well thought out, spot on too.  I guess that's why you never see two doctors or two lawyers beating the hell out of each other in the street.  They are too intelligent to do that.  They solve their disputes in non-violent ways.


----------



## Paul Essien (May 8, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland 
*How can anybody defend themselves when using violence? *

I'm only getting your side of the story and white supremacists lie about anything and everything when it comes to black ppl.

Ray From Cleveland 
*There's an old Chinese proverb one of my martial arts teachers taught me many years ago: Only use violence for self-defense, or when mind too weak to solve problem.*

And there is another chinese proverb





So that's why I'm saying the black people of cleveland are not here to give their side of the story.

Ray From Cleveland 
*Asian people are so well thought out, spot on too.*

White supreamacists call Asians Chinks and Gooks. Well thought of ? Whites thought so well of them that they (Trueman) nuked their country (Japan) in WW2 killing half a milion Asians.

And of course whites don't mind Asians because whites go over to Asia and rape their women and molest their kids all over Singapore and Thailand.

Ray From Cleveland 
* I guess that's why you never see two doctors or two lawyers beating the hell out of each other in the street. They are too intelligent to do that. They solve their disputes in non-violent ways.*

So a street fight is real violence...is it ?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 8, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Ray From Cleveland
> *How can anybody defend themselves when using violence? *
> 
> I'm only getting your side of the story and white supremacists lie about anything and everything when it comes to black ppl.
> ...



Yes, street fights are violence.  What else would you call it? 

Yes you are getting one side of the story. What other side can there be?  

Why is it you people always have to go back 50, 100, 200 years to try and make a point?


----------



## Lisa558 (May 8, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yes, street fights are violence.  What else would you call it?
> 
> Yes you are getting one side of the story. What other side can there be?
> 
> Why is it you people always have to go back 50, 100, 200 years to try and make a point?


Because there’s nothing within the last 50 years that support their claims.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 8, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Because there’s nothing within the last 50 years that support their claims.



He's trying to make the insinuation that there's a legitimate reason for gang fights that stop the enjoyment of all other people.  How much you want to bet he uses racism as the excuse.


----------



## Lisa558 (May 8, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> He's trying to make the insinuation that there's a legitimate reason for gang fights that stop the enjoyment of all other people.  How much you want to bet he uses racism as the excuse.


What DOESN’T he blame on racism?


----------



## Paul Essien (May 8, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland
*Yes you are getting one side of the story. What other side can there be?*

The black people who you claim are responsible for the violence in Cleveland are not here to give there side of the story. So I'm only getting your side of the story.

Ray From Cleveland
*Yes, street fights are violence. What else would you call it?*

It depends. If a sum1 comes at you with brute force, you can't come at them with peace.

Ray From Cleveland
*Why is it you people always have to go back 50, 100, 200 years to try and make a point?*

Because today is built on what happened yesterday and tomorrow is built on what happens today.


----------



## Paul Essien (May 8, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland 
*He's trying to make the insinuation that there's a legitimate reason for gang fights that stop the enjoyment of all other people. How much you want to bet he uses racism as the excuse*

And the white supremacists are biggest gangs on the planet


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 8, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Ray From Cleveland
> *Yes you are getting one side of the story. What other side can there be?*
> 
> The black people who you claim are responsible for the violence in Cleveland are not here to give there side of the story. So I'm only getting your side of the story.
> ...



Totally wrong.  Nothing is built on what happened to people you never knew in the first place.  And your dodge is noted, you can't give me any possible reason people would participate in riots.  You seem not to have a grasp between self-defense and aggression.


----------



## Paul Essien (May 8, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland 
*Totally wrong. Nothing is built on what happened to people you never knew in the first place. And your dodge is noted, you can't give me any possible reason people would participate in riots. You seem not to have a grasp between self-defense and aggression*

What riot are you talking about ?


----------



## Paul Essien (May 8, 2022)

JoeB131 
*Naw, Pavel, I stand with my original statement, that you are in a Troll Farm somewhere pretending to be a black man to stir up trouble. Sounds like they've been cutting your borscht ration since Putin started losing the Ukraine war.*

Well let's do a ZOOM or streamyard call and you we'll see that I'm a black man. In fact that will be good to put a face to all USMB members.

JoeB131 
*Yes... this is how you win the race war... you scatter a bunch of documents with misspelling on them, and white people will just stop to proofread EVERYTHING, because we can't help ourselves!*

Yup. They will.

Clinging on to good grammar is like hanging on to a skill that will never come back into popularity  Kind of like saying, _“I was the best quarterback in my high school.”_

When was the last time you ever heard anyone say, _“He’s really smart, you can tell by his grammar.”_

*All new languages started off as slang.*

Then they gradually became more formalized with their own rules until they evolved into a new language altogether.

How did you get French, Portuguese, Spanish and Italian from Latin?

JoeB131 
*That's the point, it's another culture. NOT THIS CULTURE*

 What culture ?

JoeB131 
*Um, because it's white people who are going to be doing the hiring!*

No sh*t


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (May 8, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> Ray From Cleveland
> *Totally wrong. Nothing is built on what happened to people you never knew in the first place. And your dodge is noted, you can't give me any possible reason people would participate in riots. You seem not to have a grasp between self-defense and aggression*
> 
> What riot are you talking about ?



The kind responsible for our city shutting down public gatherings and a church stopping their charity events as well.


----------



## JoeB131 (May 9, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> White supreamacists call Asians Chinks and Gooks. Well thought of ? Whites thought so well of them that they (Trueman) nuked their country (Japan) in WW2 killing half a milion Asians.



Wow, you can't even spell the name of President Truman correctly, Pavel?   You left out the parts where Japan attacked us and committed tons of atrocities.  Without rehashing the whole thing leading up to atomic bombings, the bombs were developed because we believed the Nazis were developing them. 

Oh, and the total death totals from Hiroshima and Nagasaki was nowhere near half a million.  



Paul Essien said:


> Well let's do a ZOOM or streamyard call and you we'll see that I'm a black man. In fact that will be good to put a face to all USMB members.


Hard Pass, Pavel... you seem like a pretty unstable person.   



Paul Essien said:


> Yup. They will.
> 
> Clinging on to good grammar is like hanging on to a skill that will never come back into popularity Kind of like saying, _“I was the best quarterback in my high school.”_
> 
> When was the last time you ever heard anyone say, _“He’s really smart, you can tell by his grammar.”_



Actually, I hear that all the time.  I've even made a business out of it, in correcting and optimizing resumes.  The fact is, if you send in a resume with bad grammar, it won't be rejected by a person, it will be rejected by an ATS program.  The person will reject it when they see you have a goofy name like Jamal.  



Paul Essien said:


> *All new languages started off as slang.*
> 
> Then they gradually became more formalized with their own rules until they evolved into a new language altogether.
> 
> How did you get French, Portuguese, Spanish and Italian from Latin?



Um, repeated invasions from Franks, Goths, Lombards, Arabs... if you paid attention in history class that didn't involve "things black people whine about" you'd know this. 

Come to think of it, you are kind of a walking advertisement against CRT, given your ignorance of actual history. 



Paul Essien said:


> No sh*t



So approach it that way.  That white person has something you want.  You have to convince him that you are the best person to give it to...  

You don't get it sending him a resume with bad grammar and spelling.
You don't get it if you go in copping an attitude.


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## Paul Essien (May 9, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Wow, you can't even spell the name of President Truman correctly, Pavel?   You left out the parts where Japan attacked us and committed tons of atrocities.  Without rehashing the whole thing leading up to atomic bombings, the bombs were developed because we believed the Nazis were developing them.
> 
> Oh, and the total death totals from Hiroshima and Nagasaki was nowhere near half a million.
> 
> ...


I hear what you're saying, and that's great, but I really don't care.

Good day sir (JoeB131 _will continue talking _) .......*I SAID GOOD DAY*


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## JoeB131 (May 9, 2022)

Paul Essien said:


> I hear what you're saying, and that's great, but I really don't care.
> 
> Good day sir (@JoeB131 _will continue talking _) .......*I SAID GOOD DAY*



Awww... don't go away mad, Pavel, you won't get your ration of borscht like that.


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## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 12, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland


Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yes, the link I posted is the law for self-defense using a deadly weapon, which in 99.9% of the cases is a firearm.  That's why they teach law when you go to CCW class.  And what other license is there to carry a concealed weapon other than a CCW?  Your own link states you must possess and carry your license for a concealed weapon at all times you are armed with said weapon.


Ray my new Florida Concealed Weapon or Firearm License arrived in the mail a few days ago.  Imagine my surprise when the cardboard insert that was holding it in place says exactly what I said to you in my first post.

A simple, "I was mistaken, you were right" will suffice as an apology.  You don't even have to admit you were wrong.


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## NewsVine_Mariyam (May 13, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> HUH? You are comparing the reparations Holocaust survivors got to blacks today? Holocaust survivors who were directly impacted - suffering lifelong physical ailments and their homes and property - got modest payments from Germany.
> 
> People who did not suffer a direct loss - such as my grandmother who had her family killed - got nothing. Blacks today have suffered no direct loss, and in recent generations, actually have gotten favorable treatment, particularly in college admissions, and in liberal cities, favoritism for hiring and promotions.
> 
> White people owe black people NOTHING other than to hold them to the same standards as everyone else.


White people are who paid the Jewish people reparations?  It wasn't the government?


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## Lisa558 (May 13, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> White people are who paid the Jewish people reparations?  It wasn't the government?


Mostly whites, yes, because most German citizens are white, but that has nothing to do with it. They were paying the direct SURVIVORS. They certainly didn’t pay surviving family who did not directly experience the Holocaust.

My grandmother suffered a great loss - six members of her immediate family, including her own mother - and she didn’t get a dime. NOBODY in the family got a dime. And you think blacks, generations re moved from slavery, should get money? They’ve already had two generations of preferential treatment in admissions, and that’s more than enough. 

Blacks today did not directly experience slavery. Thus they get no reparations as well.

Any still living slave, like any still living Holocaust survivor, gets a modest monthly payment.


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## Paul Essien (May 13, 2022)

Lisa558
*They’ve already had two generations of preferential treatment in admissions, and that’s more than enough.*













*And these are the only ones that have been caught and outed.*

White people don't allow black people to have the upper hand in anything. Nothing. So why should college admissions be different ? Their is no college admissions who is saying _"Aw theese poor dumb blacks, they're just so dumb and poor, so we need to lower the bar to let them in this colege or university at the expense of the more smarter non black people"_

If we get it. We earn it.

Lisa558
*Mostly whites, yes, because most German citizens are white, but that has nothing to do with it. They were paying the direct SURVIVORS. They certainly didn’t pay surviving family who did not directly experience the Holocaust.*

My grandad fought in WWII & went to Germany to help rescue Jewish ppl from Concentration camps. Only to come back home & have ppl from the anti-Black sector of Jewish society like William Levitt who created the modern suburbs, NOT allow Black ppl to live there





Also never forget the entire Levittown venture was subsidized fully by the US Government offering below market value to White folk at 90% locking FBA completely out of homeownership.


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## JoeB131 (May 13, 2022)

Lisa558 said:


> Mostly whites, yes, because most German citizens are white, but that has nothing to do with it. They were paying the direct SURVIVORS. They certainly didn’t pay surviving family who did not directly experience the Holocaust.
> 
> My grandmother suffered a great loss - six members of her immediate family, including her own mother - and she didn’t get a dime. NOBODY in the family got a dime. And you think blacks, generations re moved from slavery, should get money? They’ve already had two generations of preferential treatment in admissions, and that’s more than enough.



And how much money has the US shovelled into the Zionist Entity since 1948 because we felt bad about the Holocaust?  

Not to mention the costs of all the wars we get dragged into because the Zionists control our policy making.


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