# Republic of Türkiye



## ekrem

Here i will write about Turkish republic. Who is interested in, can follow this thread.


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## ekrem

Turkey 15th biggest economy of the world.
Datas are from IMF.

*Year 2007
*GDP nominal : 658.8 billion $
GDP PPP : $1.026 trillion $
http://www.turkstat.gov.tr/PreHaberBultenleri.do?id=1949
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey#cite_note-2

Some countries in our pivotal region.
*
Iran 2007*
GDP nominal: $294 billion 
GDP PPP: $752 billion 
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft...r=1&c=469,429,456,463&s=NGDPD,PPPGDP&grp=0&a=

*
Egypt 2007*
GDP nominal: $127 Billion
GDP PPP: $403 Billion
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft...r=1&c=469,429,456,463&s=NGDPD,PPPGDP&grp=0&a=

*Saudi-Arabia 2007*
GDP nominal: $376 Billion
GDP PPP: $564 Billion
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft...r=1&c=469,429,456,463&s=NGDPD,PPPGDP&grp=0&a=

*
Syria 2007*
GDP nominal: $37 Billion
GDP PPP: $87 Billion 
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft...r=1&c=469,429,456,463&s=NGDPD,PPPGDP&grp=0&a=


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## Gunny

You back on your world domination kick?


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## akiboy

Surprising to know Iran has the 16th biggest economy in the world..

But i guess they rank pretty low in the UN human development Index.


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## Toro

Spammer.

Having said that, I quite liked Turkey.  People were very friendly and there are great sites.  

Too many Australians though...


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## trobinett

Nothing new here, carry on canavar.


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## nibor

I hate to be a stickler for SENSE and relevance but what exactly is your point..................


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## Gunny

Toro said:


> Spammer.
> 
> Having said that, I quite liked Turkey.  People were very friendly and there are great sites.
> 
> Too many Australians though...



The Aussies are invading Turkey?


----------



## Gunny

nibor said:


> I hate to be a stickler for SENSE and relevance but what exactly is your point..................



Canavar is our resident Turkish ultra-freaked-out Nazi Nationalist.  Been here off and on for years.  He's the Joseph Goebbels of Turkey.  

It would be to that Trobinett is referring.


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## ekrem

nibor said:


> I hate to be a stickler for SENSE and relevance but what exactly is your point..................



My point is that i will concentrate my writing habit (which evolves in regular cycles) in this thread. From a theoretical perspective this thread will be spam, as i can foresee, that there will be post by post without any interaction with other users. But i do anyway do not interact much with people here. It's just some chosen ones (if i like or not ) i can count on one hand.  

The other point is, that Turkey is a country sitting on one of the most valuable real assets in this world and is (you will recognize this in the proceeding thread) a country  where is big dynamics from within. Not imposed.
This dynamic coupled with the prerequisite (economy, soft-power, military, trade etc) of this republic is predetermined to influence actions beyond its boarders. If you agree or ideologically influenced do not agree does not matter, Turkey is one of those countries worth to watch. I do not mean this solely from a foreign politics perspective but also from inner politics. 

Finished saying that, it is normal that there will be posted some basic data. Nothing big, just to make possible a classification in relation to the pivotal region which consists either of a region where others put Turkey in, or where the constituted strategic outreach of this republic is. But i intend not to make this thread a comparison thread, but comparisons are unavoidable on some data.


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## ReillyT

canavar said:


> My point is that i will concentrate my writing habit (which evolves in regular cycles) in this thread. From a theoretical perspective this thread will be spam, as i can foresee, that there will be post by post without any interaction with other users. But i do anyway do not interact much with people here. It's just some chosen ones (if i like or not ) i can count on one hand.
> 
> The other point is, that Turkey is a country sitting on one of the most valuable real assets in this world and is (you will recognize this in the proceeding thread) a country  where is big dynamics from within. Not imposed.
> This dynamic coupled with the prerequisite (economy, soft-power, military, trade etc) of this republic is predetermined to influence actions beyond its boarders. If you agree or ideologically influenced do not agree does not matter, Turkey is one of those countries worth to watch. I do not mean this solely from a foreign politics perspective but also from inner politics.
> 
> Finished saying that, it is normal that there will be posted some basic data. Nothing big, just to make possible a classification in relation to the pivotal region which consists either of a region where others put Turkey in, or where the constituted strategic outreach of this republic is. But i intend not to make this thread a comparison thread, but comparisons are unavoidable on some data.



Where do you live in Turkey?


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## ekrem

@ReillyT
When i am in Turkey (most of the year) i live in Gaziantep, which is trade hub to Syria and Iraq and a major industrial and agricultural factor within Turkey. 
Originally known as Antep, the title Gazi (meaning victorious/veteran/heroic in Turkish) was added to the province's and the provincial capital's name in 1921, due to its population's extraordinary courage during the Turkish War of Independence when French troops tried to occupy south-east Turkey. 
Meaning my ancestors kicked French out into today's Syria without Ataturk's liberation army which on the other hand kicked all occupiers of Anatolia out after collapse of Ottoman Empire.
Unlike Germans, my ancestors did not let occupiers slip over our women and mothers and live as none-rulers.






a structure of this thread. The list is not final and no linear strategy for courses of writing. Just a list what might be written here regularly or irregularity be it in this forum or another forum where such a thread might belong better into.


*Foreign Policy:*
a)
Interaction with "classical" allies
1. USA
2. EU
= NATO, EU-Membership 

Interaction with pivotal region
1. Mid-East
2. -stans of Central Asia 
3. Mediterranean
4. Balkan
5. Black Sea
6. Caucasus
7. North-Africa

Interaction with historical "classical" none-ally powers 
1. Heavyweights within SCO

b)
enforce interests to our predefined strategic outreach

c)
Military and economical strategy and build-up so it is ensured we do not have to compel another arrangement to point c)
*
Inner politics:*
a) Institutions
1. Army
2. Parties
2.1 strategies, goals of parties
3. judiciary
4. government
5. presidency
6. interaction between institutions

b) society
1. trends in society, statistical trend based on election history of ideology of population (right, left etc)
2. polls to different things including a) Institutions
3. interesting things not related to politics (culture etc)
*
Economy*
1. growth 
2. industrialization
3. budget
4. foreign trade
....
....
....
....
*
Environment*
a) water management
b) water trade
c) infrastructure for water utilization in foreign policy
d) afforestation 

*
Military* (none inner-politics related)
....
....
....
....


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## onedomino

canavar said:
			
		

> Foreign Policy:
> a)
> Interaction with "classical" allies
> 1. USA
> 2. EU
> = NATO, EU-Membership
> 
> Interaction with pivotal region
> 1. Mid-East
> 2. -stans of Central Asia
> 3. Mediterranean
> 4. Balkan
> 5. Black Sea
> 6. Caucasus
> 7. North-Africa
> 
> Interaction with historical "classical" none-ally powers
> 1. Heavyweights within SCO
> 
> b)
> enforce interests to our predefined strategic outreach
> 
> c)
> Military and economical strategy and build-up so it is ensured we do not have to compel another arrangement to point c)
> 
> Inner politics:
> a) Institutions
> 1. Army
> 2. Parties
> 2.1 strategies, goals of parties
> 3. judiciary
> 4. government
> 5. presidency
> 6. interaction between institutions
> 
> b) society
> 1. trends in society, statistical trend based on election history of ideology of population (right, left etc)
> 2. polls to different things including a) Institutions
> 3. interesting things not related to politics (culture etc)
> 
> Economy
> 1. growth
> 2. industrialization
> 3. budget
> 4. foreign trade
> ....
> ....
> ....
> ....
> 
> Environment
> a) water management
> b) water trade
> c) infrastructure for water utilization in foreign policy
> d) afforestation
> 
> 
> Military (none inner-politics related)
> ....
> ....
> ....
> ....
> __________________


Come on canavar. At least in the past one could make sense of your posts. What's this stuff supposed to mean?


----------



## Toro

GunnyL said:


> The Aussies are invading Turkey?



I backpacked through Europe after college.  There were about a billion Aussies in Turkey, I swear.  Nice people, but "G'day mate!" isn't the most common phrase I want to hear at the Aya Sofia.


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## Gunny

canavar said:


> @ReillyT
> When i am in Turkey (most of the year) i live in Gaziantep, which is trade hub to Syria and Iraq and a major industrial and agricultural factor within Turkey.
> Originally known as Antep, the title Gazi (meaning victorious/veteran/heroic in Turkish) was added to the province's and the provincial capital's name in 1921, due to its population's extraordinary courage during the Turkish War of Independence when French troops tried to occupy south-east Turkey.
> Meaning my ancestors kicked French out into today's Syria without Ataturk's liberation army which on the other hand kicked all occupiers of Anatolia out after collapse of Ottoman Empire.
> Unlike Germans, my ancestors did not let occupiers slip over our women and mothers and live as none-rulers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a structure of this thread. The list is not final and no linear strategy for courses of writing. Just a list what might be written here regularly or irregularity be it in this forum or another forum where such a thread might belong better into.
> 
> 
> *Foreign Policy:*
> a)
> Interaction with "classical" allies
> 1. USA
> 2. EU
> = NATO, EU-Membership
> 
> Interaction with pivotal region
> 1. Mid-East
> 2. -stans of Central Asia
> 3. Mediterranean
> 4. Balkan
> 5. Black Sea
> 6. Caucasus
> 7. North-Africa
> 
> Interaction with historical "classical" none-ally powers
> 1. Heavyweights within SCO
> 
> b)
> enforce interests to our predefined strategic outreach
> 
> c)
> Military and economical strategy and build-up so it is ensured we do not have to compel another arrangement to point c)
> *
> Inner politics:*
> a) Institutions
> 1. Army
> 2. Parties
> 2.1 strategies, goals of parties
> 3. judiciary
> 4. government
> 5. presidency
> 6. interaction between institutions
> 
> b) society
> 1. trends in society, statistical trend based on election history of ideology of population (right, left etc)
> 2. polls to different things including a) Institutions
> 3. interesting things not related to politics (culture etc)
> *
> Economy*
> 1. growth
> 2. industrialization
> 3. budget
> 4. foreign trade
> ....
> ....
> ....
> ....
> *
> Environment*
> a) water management
> b) water trade
> c) infrastructure for water utilization in foreign policy
> d) afforestation
> 
> *
> Military* (none inner-politics related)
> ....
> ....
> ....
> ....



Big deal.  Who HASN'T kicked France's ass?


----------



## ekrem

Please leave all your ideological sides offside and read. I think this is a quite informative post.

The Jamestown Foundation had some nice articles these days/weeks on Pan-Turkism. First i will sum-up those articles and then write my own commentary and additional infos. 
The rebirth of Pan-Turkism? ----- January 11, 2008

Pan-Turkism takes step forward in Eurasia ----- February 29, 2008

In the articles it is mentioned that by the initiative of Kazakh president Nazarbayev  a Turkic inter-parliamentary institution is being set-up. 
From all *independent* Turkic states (Note: There are still Turkic federal Republics in Russia and Ukraine) currently 
- Turkey
- Azerbaycan
- Kazakhstan
- Kyrgizistan
have signed the agreement at the latest "Friendship, Brotherhood, and Cooperation Congress of the Turkic States". Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan currently did not sign the agreement. 
Jamestown Foundation questions whether this Parliament will go political or just enhance economical issues between the member states and puts this development in a negative context for Russia. Also Jamestown Foundation questions how Turkic states will overcome some problems which they currently have and how this Parliament will actually work.
Due to the petrol dollars of Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan, Jamestown Foundation gives those 2 states a heavy role within the Parliament. 

The questions Jamestown Foundation is asking are answered by the Turkishdailynews.com:
- 50 member Parliament of Turkic Unity, on a European Union model
- Deputies of Parliament will be represented in proportion to the country's population
- Headquarters in Istanbul
- Parliament will have a logo, an emblem, a Web site and liaison offices in each member country
- Three Parliament Commissions: 
1. Foreign affairs
2. Social affairs
3. Economic Relations and Eurasian countries Commission
- Turkey will undertake the logistic requirements of the parliament including construction of the building

The "Friendship, Brotherhood, and Cooperation Congress of the Turkic States" is held every year in another Turkic country. Participation is on State President or Prime-Ministry level. The latest Congress was in Azerbaycan's capital Baku. 
Now this Congress gets a permanent Secretariat in Istanbul.  The permanent secretariat will be overseeing preparation work for the Congress meetings. The secretariat will also follow up decisions made at the Congress, thereby providing immediate resolution to troubles at the implementation stage and giving the summit much higher functionality.

We have the EU, Arab League, OIC, and some other multi-national organizations in this world. Now we also will have something like a Commonwealth of Turkic States. This is not an alliance or something like that. It is the first steps for unity which may come or may not come in the future. 
What stays is, that this "Commonwealth" is very rich in resources beginning from oil over gold to uranium. Also all states have high economic growth rates and rising state expenditure budgets.  

So, how much can an integration between the countries go?
There are several factors influencing this:
1. Economic relations
2. Cultural Relations

One of the most important things is language.
After Azerbaycan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan already switched their Turkish language to Latin alphabet, Kazakhstan now also makes a language reform leaving Russian Cyrillic Alphabet. 
See info on American Chamber of Commerce in Kazakhstan.
The Turkish state-run Linguistics Board (TDK) is cooperating with Kazakhstan in language transition. 
Official statement in Turkish from Turkish Linguistic Board (TDK) can be found here .
It is foreseen that the language transition will take 12-15 years in Kazakhstan.
All countries speak a different dialect of Turkish, whilst Azerbaijani-, Uzbek- and Turkmen- Turkish are the nearest to Turkey-Turkish. 
Kazakh Turkish is the most far dialect to Turkey-Turkish.  
You can see here a vocabulary comparison between the different dialects of Turkish.
So i can speak and understand quick Turkmen Turkish, Azerbaijan Turkish. 
In Kazakh Turkish the speaker must speak slowly if i want do not want to understand just the half of what he is telling me. 

The next point is raising awareness under the societies of each country that there is a Turkic world. 
Turkey has 5 state Television Channels. TRT 1 to 3, TRT INT and TRT Turk. 
TRT Turk is solely sending on east beam to Central Asia and the content is strictly Turkey related. 
TRT Turk now gets transformed into a multi-national TV Channel which produces content related to all Turkic countries. 
TRT Turk will get fusioned with other TV channels like Ictimai TV from Azerbaijan. 
The new channel will send non-stop news from the Turkic world to all Turkic countries.
The Europeans do also have something similar called Euronews.

Since 1993, Turkey has given 18.000 scholarships in Turkish Universities to students from Turkic countries. These are the elites of tomorrow in the Turkic countries educated by Turkey. 
All students from Turkic countries are free from obligatory University acceptance tests in Turkish Universities. Every year Higher Education body of Turkey allocates contingents for scholarships to Turkic students.
In Turkey there are many NGO's financing the needs of Turkic students.
Even Japanese Nippon-Foundation finances books for Turkic students in Turkish Universities.

Turkey does not only educate Turkic students in Turkey, but also in Turkic countries itself. In Kyrgizistan for example Turkish State finances and operates 2 Universities (Manas and Ataturk Universities). Also Turkey finances and operates 14 colleges in Kyrgizistan.
Additional to that Turkey finances 2 more universities (Osh University, Kyrgiz-Uzbek University) but leaves operation to Kyrgiz Turks. These additional 2 universities have currently 20.000 students. 
http://www.jamestown.org/edm/article.php?article_id=2372320 
It is significant when we note that Kyrgizistan has a total population of 5,3 million people.
Turkish government is the largest investor in the Kyrgyz educational system.

In Kazakhstan for example Turkish state operates Yesevi University, Suleyman Demirel University and 27 High Schools/Lyceums. According to Salyk Zimanov from the "National Academy of Science of Kazakhstan" Turkish High Schools in Kazakhstan won half of the whole number of medals Kazakhstan schoolchildren were awarded in International Olympiads. 97 per cent of the graduates are annually admitted to both national and foreign Universities.
http://www.kazpravda.kz/index.php?uin=1152249713&act=archive_date&day=17&month=9&year=2003
Turkish State building the Elite in Kazakhstan.

In Turkmenistan there is the Turkmen-Turkish University. According to the "International Herald Tribune (IHT)" Turkmenistan's capital Ashgabat alone is home to 20 Turkish schools considered to be the best in the whole country.


> the city is home to around 20 Turkish schools, many considered to be among the best in the country.


http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/02/15/asia/AS-ANL-Turkmenistan-Turkeys-Influence.php

In Azerbaijan there is the Kafkas University.
According to Wikipedia the first and the only foreign private university in the country.
Turkey has to all Turkic countries the best relations with Azerbaijan. 
Just believe me when i am saying that Turkish state operates also lyceums and high schools in Azerbaijan without giving any links.


So. Why do i have always said "Turkish State"?
Because we need a seperation between Turkish State and Turkish NGO's, Turkish Movements, Turkish Business. All of them are also heavily engaged in education systems of Turkic countries.
Turkey has 2 major religious streams. One Sunnites and the other Alevites. 
"Cag Ögretim" which simply means "Epoch Teaching" is from Turkish Alevites and is mainly operateing in Azerbaijan.
KATEV is from Turkish Sunnites, mainly the Gülen movement. 
The Gülen movement is lead by Gülen. 

Allthough Gülen is considered by the West as a Reformer of Islam, he had to flee to USA in 1997 to avoid Turkish jail. 
British House of Lords makes Gülen conferences. Western Media portrays him as messiahs. You will find much on the Internet about him.
The Economist published on 6th March 2008 2 articles about Gülen movement 
Global Muslim networks

A farm boy on the world stage
I recommend you to read the first link.
The Gülen movement is a multi-billion $ money printing machine, a mix of Islamic puritanism and capitalism. You may not heard of Gülen movement, but that is because of non-terrorism and ideology of Gülen movement rather then insignificance, and unfortunately there are other islamic groups to talk about in Anti-Terror times.


> The global Gülen network, with over 500 companies, hundreds of schools, thousands of loyal teachers, and followers numbering in the millions, poses the single greatest challenge to the Kemalist ideology in Turkey today.


http://www.meforum.org/article/1531
Most of money of Gülen movement goes into education all over the world.

Like The Economist also said:


> They claim to have founded more than 500 places of learning in 90 countries.


http://www.economist.com/world/international/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10808408

From the Zürich (Swiss) Technological University:


> In line with Gulen's vision, his followers have travelled around the world and created hundreds of modern highly-regarded schools worldwide. These schools first emerged in Turkey and in the neighbouring Central Asian countries but are now established in South and Southeast Asia, Africa, Europe and Australia. In Western Europe they built community centres and student hostels to provide support for students studying in the mainstream or public education system.
> Despite being inspired by Gulen's ideas, none of these schools bear his name or are registered under his name. Rather, these schools are registered under the name of individual businessman or foundations.
> In Southeast Asia, the group has started schools in virtually all the Southeast Asian countries.


http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?ID=17551

A big portion of schools from Gülen movement are in Central Asia.

*The Turkish City of Kayseri*
_Home to the "Islamic Calvinists"_
Kayseri is booming. *It holds the world record for the number of factories opening in day - 190*. The city boasts 50 out 500 of the wealthiest people in Turkey.
http://www.qantara.de/webcom/show_article.php/_c-476/_nr-759/i.html
Full report:
http://www.esiweb.org/index.php?lang=en&id=156&document_ID=69
*
Anatolian Tigers*
is a term internationally used in the context of the Turkish economy to refer to and to explain the phenomenon of a number of cities in Turkey which have displayed impressive growth records since the 1980s, as well as to a defined new breed of entrepreneurs rising in prominence and who can often be traced back to the cities in question and who generally rose from the status of SMEs [1].
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatolian_Tigers

Konya is also a religious Anatolian Tiger. I would clearly say more religious then Kayseri.
My hometown Gaziantep is also Anatolian Tiger, but we are considered nationalist in election preference. 

After this little excursus there is more to follow (when i have time) on Turkic states and Turkey and i will put this into context of 
Foreign Policy:
a)
Interaction with "classical" allies
1. USA
2. EU
= NATO, EU-Membership


----------



## ekrem

I still didn't write about Turkish factor in Central Asian economies. 
Central Asian economies must be divided into Oil/Gas sector and Non-Oil sector.
Allthough Turkish state firms and private firms are also involved in these sectors, the Multi-National oil multies outperform Turkish factor in Oil/Gas sectors.

But Oil/Gas is not endless and Turkish firms have dominant position in non-Oil/Gas sectors. Building lasting interconnectivity. This will get the most detailed part of my writitings about Turkic States subject based on the fact, that in  economy is happening the most. You will also learn of a Turkish business man ascent to Minister of Turkmenistan Government.
In the end, all talk of "Brotherhood" is cheap talk if there is no economical leverage on which cultural and political approach can accelerate.
Turkey is driving a multi-level strategy to Turkic states (Economy, Military, Education, Culture etc.).

But i want to deliver some basic info before:

*
Oghuz Turks*
Oghuz is not an ethnic name, and it can be simply translated into "Turkic tribes". The "Oghuz Turk branch" or "Western Turk branch" is one of the traditional six branches of the modern Turkic peoples. The "Oghuz branch" is a geographical and historical designation, not a separate ethnic term since the Turkic peoples of the world share the same ethnic roots.

The Oghuz Turks are ancestors of today's Southwestern Turks,[1][2][3][4] totalling a combined population of 100 million and ranging from eastern Europe to western Asia. The peoples who identify themselves as descendants of the Oghuz Turks include the Azerbaijanis, Turks (of Turkey), Turkish Cypriots, Balkan Turks, Turkmens, Qashqai, Khorasani, Gagauz and Salar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oghuz_Turks

Because of that Turkmenistan- and Azerbaijani-Turkish is nearly identical to Turkey-Turkish. Like Turkey-Turks they are also Oghuz.
Kazakhs e.g. are another Turkic tribe.
Safavids of Iran and Iran Azerbaijanis are also Oghuz.
So are Turcomens in Iraq.
Just because Turcomens in  Iraq do not have Turkish passport does not mean Turkey has no responsibility for them. It's the same responsibility for all other Oguz Turks. Like Cypriot Turks.

As Turkey Oghuz Turks are most potent in history (Seljuk, Ottoman) and present, Turkey has the accumulated duty to look for all other Oghuz Turks numbering about 100 Mio in total.
Oghuz Turks plus other Turkic tribes = 163 Mio people.
http://www.joshuaproject.net/affinity-blocs.php?rop1=A015

To look at all 163 Million is a huge responsibility extremely over-stretching current Turkish capabilities. Impossible at this stage. But we are nearing a point where it is possible to look after the most Turkic tribes by interconnectivity and rising Turkish power. 
In analogy to our glorious past Turkey (tiny 80 years old) has still to write its place in history books. 






Dark blue = independent country with Turkic laguage
Light blue = federal state within foreign country with Turkic language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_people#cite_note-3


----------



## Gunny

canavar said:


> Please leave all your ideological sides offside and read. I think this is a quite informative post.
> 
> The Jamestown Foundation had some nice articles these days/weeks on Pan-Turkism. First i will sum-up those articles and then write my own commentary and additional infos.
> The rebirth of Pan-Turkism? ----- January 11, 2008
> 
> Pan-Turkism takes step forward in Eurasia ----- February 29, 2008
> 
> In the articles it is mentioned that by the initiative of Kazakh president Nazarbayev  a Turkic inter-parliamentary institution is being set-up.
> From all *independent* Turkic states (Note: There are still Turkic federal Republics in Russia and Ukraine) currently
> - Turkey
> - Azerbaycan
> - Kazakhstan
> - Kyrgizistan
> have signed the agreement at the latest "Friendship, Brotherhood, and Cooperation Congress of the Turkic States". Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan currently did not sign the agreement.
> Jamestown Foundation questions whether this Parliament will go political or just enhance economical issues between the member states and puts this development in a negative context for Russia. Also Jamestown Foundation questions how Turkic states will overcome some problems which they currently have and how this Parliament will actually work.
> Due to the petrol dollars of Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan, Jamestown Foundation gives those 2 states a heavy role within the Parliament.
> 
> The questions Jamestown Foundation is asking are answered by the Turkishdailynews.com:
> - 50 member Parliament of Turkic Unity, on a European Union model
> - Deputies of Parliament will be represented in proportion to the country's population
> - Headquarters in Istanbul
> - Parliament will have a logo, an emblem, a Web site and liaison offices in each member country
> - Three Parliament Commissions:
> 1. Foreign affairs
> 2. Social affairs
> 3. Economic Relations and Eurasian countries Commission
> - Turkey will undertake the logistic requirements of the parliament including construction of the building
> 
> The "Friendship, Brotherhood, and Cooperation Congress of the Turkic States" is held every year in another Turkic country. Participation is on State President or Prime-Ministry level. The latest Congress was in Azerbaycan's capital Baku.
> Now this Congress gets a permanent Secretariat in Istanbul.  The permanent secretariat will be overseeing preparation work for the Congress meetings. The secretariat will also follow up decisions made at the Congress, thereby providing immediate resolution to troubles at the implementation stage and giving the summit much higher functionality.
> 
> We have the EU, Arab League, OIC, and some other multi-national organizations in this world. Now we also will have something like a Commonwealth of Turkic States. This is not an alliance or something like that. It is the first steps for unity which may come or may not come in the future.
> What stays is, that this "Commonwealth" is very rich in resources beginning from oil over gold to uranium. Also all states have high economic growth rates and rising state expenditure budgets.
> 
> So, how much can an integration between the countries go?
> There are several factors influencing this:
> 1. Economic relations
> 2. Cultural Relations
> 
> One of the most important things is language.
> After Azerbaycan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan already switched their Turkish language to Latin alphabet, Kazakhstan now also makes a language reform leaving Russian Cyrillic Alphabet.
> See info on American Chamber of Commerce in Kazakhstan.
> The Turkish state-run Linguistics Board (TDK) is cooperating with Kazakhstan in language transition.
> Official statement in Turkish from Turkish Linguistic Board (TDK) can be found here .
> It is foreseen that the language transition will take 12-15 years in Kazakhstan.
> All countries speak a different dialect of Turkish, whilst Azerbaijani-, Uzbek- and Turkmen- Turkish are the nearest to Turkey-Turkish.
> Kazakh Turkish is the most far dialect to Turkey-Turkish.
> You can see here a vocabulary comparison between the different dialects of Turkish.
> So i can speak and understand quick Turkmen Turkish, Azerbaijan Turkish.
> In Kazakh Turkish the speaker must speak slowly if i want do not want to understand just the half of what he is telling me.
> 
> The next point is raising awareness under the societies of each country that there is a Turkic world.
> Turkey has 5 state Television Channels. TRT 1 to 3, TRT INT and TRT Turk.
> TRT Turk is solely sending on east beam to Central Asia and the content is strictly Turkey related.
> TRT Turk now gets transformed into a multi-national TV Channel which produces content related to all Turkic countries.
> TRT Turk will get fusioned with other TV channels like Ictimai TV from Azerbaijan.
> The new channel will send non-stop news from the Turkic world to all Turkic countries.
> The Europeans do also have something similar called Euronews.
> 
> Since 1993, Turkey has given 18.000 scholarships in Turkish Universities to students from Turkic countries. These are the elites of tomorrow in the Turkic countries educated by Turkey.
> All students from Turkic countries are free from obligatory University acceptance tests in Turkish Universities. Every year Higher Education body of Turkey allocates contingents for scholarships to Turkic students.
> In Turkey there are many NGO's financing the needs of Turkic students.
> Even Japanese Nippon-Foundation finances books for Turkic students in Turkish Universities.
> 
> Turkey does not only educate Turkic students in Turkey, but also in Turkic countries itself. In Kyrgizistan for example Turkish State finances and operates 2 Universities (Manas and Ataturk Universities). Also Turkey finances and operates 14 colleges in Kyrgizistan.
> Additional to that Turkey finances 2 more universities (Osh University, Kyrgiz-Uzbek University) but leaves operation to Kyrgiz Turks. These additional 2 universities have currently 20.000 students.
> http://www.jamestown.org/edm/article.php?article_id=2372320
> It is significant when we note that Kyrgizistan has a total population of 5,3 million people.
> Turkish government is the largest investor in the Kyrgyz educational system.
> 
> In Kazakhstan for example Turkish state operates Yesevi University, Suleyman Demirel University and 27 High Schools/Lyceums. According to Salyk Zimanov from the "National Academy of Science of Kazakhstan" Turkish High Schools in Kazakhstan won half of the whole number of medals Kazakhstan schoolchildren were awarded in International Olympiads. 97 per cent of the graduates are annually admitted to both national and foreign Universities.
> http://www.kazpravda.kz/index.php?uin=1152249713&act=archive_date&day=17&month=9&year=2003
> Turkish State building the Elite in Kazakhstan.
> 
> In Turkmenistan there is the Turkmen-Turkish University. According to the "International Herald Tribune (IHT)" Turkmenistan's capital Ashgabat alone is home to 20 Turkish schools considered to be the best in the whole country.
> 
> http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/02/15/asia/AS-ANL-Turkmenistan-Turkeys-Influence.php
> 
> In Azerbaijan there is the Kafkas University.
> According to Wikipedia the first and the only foreign private university in the country.
> Turkey has to all Turkic countries the best relations with Azerbaijan.
> Just believe me when i am saying that Turkish state operates also lyceums and high schools in Azerbaijan without giving any links.
> 
> 
> So. Why do i have always said "Turkish State"?
> Because we need a seperation between Turkish State and Turkish NGO's, Turkish Movements, Turkish Business. All of them are also heavily engaged in education systems of Turkic countries.
> Turkey has 2 major religious streams. One Sunnites and the other Alevites.
> "Cag Ögretim" which simply means "Epoch Teaching" is from Turkish Alevites and is mainly operateing in Azerbaijan.
> KATEV is from Turkish Sunnites, mainly the Gülen movement.
> The Gülen movement is lead by Gülen.
> 
> Allthough Gülen is considered by the West as a Reformer of Islam, he had to flee to USA in 1997 to avoid Turkish jail.
> British House of Lords makes Gülen conferences. Western Media portrays him as messiahs. You will find much on the Internet about him.
> The Economist published on 6th March 2008 2 articles about Gülen movement
> Global Muslim networks
> 
> A farm boy on the world stage
> I recommend you to read the first link.
> The Gülen movement is a multi-billion $ money printing machine, a mix of Islamic puritanism and capitalism. You may not heard of Gülen movement, but that is because of non-terrorism and ideology of Gülen movement rather then insignificance, and unfortunately there are other islamic groups to talk about in Anti-Terror times.
> 
> http://www.meforum.org/article/1531
> Most of money of Gülen movement goes into education all over the world.
> 
> Like The Economist also said:
> 
> http://www.economist.com/world/international/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10808408
> 
> From the Zürich (Swiss) Technological University:
> 
> http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?ID=17551
> 
> A big portion of schools from Gülen movement are in Central Asia.
> 
> *The Turkish City of Kayseri*
> _Home to the "Islamic Calvinists"_
> Kayseri is booming. *It holds the world record for the number of factories opening in day - 190*. The city boasts 50 out 500 of the wealthiest people in Turkey.
> http://www.qantara.de/webcom/show_article.php/_c-476/_nr-759/i.html
> Full report:
> http://www.esiweb.org/index.php?lang=en&id=156&document_ID=69
> *
> Anatolian Tigers*
> is a term internationally used in the context of the Turkish economy to refer to and to explain the phenomenon of a number of cities in Turkey which have displayed impressive growth records since the 1980s, as well as to a defined new breed of entrepreneurs rising in prominence and who can often be traced back to the cities in question and who generally rose from the status of SMEs [1].
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatolian_Tigers
> 
> Konya is also a religious Anatolian Tiger. I would clearly say more religious then Kayseri.
> My hometown Gaziantep is also Anatolian Tiger, but we are considered nationalist in election preference.
> 
> After this little excursus there is more to follow (when i have time) on Turkic states and Turkey and i will put this into context of
> Foreign Policy:
> a)
> Interaction with "classical" allies
> 1. USA
> 2. EU
> = NATO, EU-Membership



Are you kidding?

Leave our ideologies aside and listen to YOUR warped view of things? 

I notice no mention in all your junk of how many psychological therapists Turkey has.  Please find one of them as soon as you possibly can.


----------



## ekrem

GunnyL said:


> Are you kidding?
> 
> Leave our ideologies aside and listen to YOUR warped view of things?
> 
> I notice no mention in all your junk of how many psychological therapists Turkey has.  Please find one of them as soon as you possibly can.



There is comprehend and serious information on the screen and there should be converting capability in the brain. I do not want to get personal but i know you have this capability. Or not?
Maybe you think i am Megalomaniac, but i only documented mostly Turkey's educational engagement. 
This is no megalomany but serious things going on.

Strategic thinking people in knowledge of this region - if they didn't have had the infos before - can now process infos into their strategic assessment of their approach to the region. By region i for this part limited myself to Central Asia. Here i have yet to write one of the most important aspects (economy).

Further in the approaching thread you will see that Turkey has strategies in all directions. It is an act of preference 1) that i begin with this geography and 2) where Turkish state does canalize more efforts then into other regions.

This does anyway not mean, that Turkey is acting like driving on a oneway-street.
We have capabilities to drive on different high-ways at the same time, allthough with different speed. 
Even  e.g. if we drive wit different speed on Mid-East, Balkan, Mediterenean Highways, it does not mean that OTHER motorist driving against the Turkish traffic on Highways is going to have a platitudinous experience.
This speaking for our pivotal neighbours excludeing Russia. 
USA factor in our pivotal region is also a factor, and USA being the only factor to crash Turkish motor especially on Mid-East highway. After that USA motorist will have to take a huge stop-over for a total general overhaul.
Iran is just some marten nibbling on some US cables.

That discussion i do not want to lead, as in my processing capabilty of last months , this discussion has not anymore a factual base.


----------



## Gunny

canavar said:


> There is comprehend and serious information on the screen and there should be converting capability in the brain. I do not want to get personal but i know you have this capability. Or not?
> Maybe you think i am Megalomaniac, but i only documented mostly Turkey's educational engagement.
> This is no megalomany but serious things going on.
> 
> Strategic thinking people in knowledge of this region - if they didn't have had the infos before - can now process infos into their strategic assessment of their approach to the region. By region i for this part limited myself to Central Asia. Here i have yet to write one of the most important aspects (economy).
> 
> Further in the approaching thread you will see that Turkey has strategies in all directions. It is an act of preference 1) that i begin with this geography and 2) where Turkish state does canalize more efforts then into other regions.
> 
> This does anyway not mean, that Turkey is acting like driving on a oneway-street.
> We have capabilities to drive on different high-ways at the same time, allthough with different speed.
> Even  e.g. if we drive wit different speed on Mid-East, Balkan, Mediterenean Highways, it does not mean that OTHER motorist driving against the Turkish traffic on Highways is going to have a platitudinous experience.
> This speaking for our pivotal neighbours excludeing Russia.
> USA factor in our pivotal region is also a factor, and USA being the only factor to crash Turkish motor especially on Mid-East highway. After that USA motorist will have to take a huge stop-over for a total general overhaul.
> Iran is just some marten nibbling on some US cables.
> 
> That discussion i do not want to lead, as in my processing capabilty of last months , this discussion has not anymore a factual base.



Dude, how long have you been trying to sell this junk on this board?  Three-four years?  Even the few people who have actually expressed an interest are put off by your deluded arrogance and Nazi-like attitude.

Get a clue.


----------



## cbi0090

I'm still trying to figure out what this is all supposed to be leading to?  How about this?

Year 2007
Population - 72.3 million 
Life Expectancy - men 67.5 years  women 72.1 years (not bad)
No. of men per women 102 (not good)
Population over 60 - 8% (hmmmm ?)
Population under 15 - 29.2% (you guys are busy)
GDP per head - $4,190 (US, not bad)
GDP spent on health care - 7.6%

Main export destinations EU - 54.6%, Germany - 13.9%, UK - 8.8%, US - 7.7%
Import origins:  EU - 46.7%, Germany - 12.9%, Russia - 9.3%, Italy - 7.1%, US - 4.8%

What a conversation we're having!!!

Doctors per 1000 - 1.3
GDP spent on Education - 3.6
Adult literacy - 97.7% (very good)
Avg number per household - 4.7 (I knew it!)
Marriages per 1000 - 8.5
Divorces per 1000 - .6 (pretty good but Colombia has everyone beat)

Color TV's per 100 - 68
Telephone lines per 100 - 26.5 (do you all yodel?)
Mobile phones per 100 - 48 (that explains the above)

There, I'm glad I got that off my chest.


----------



## Gunny

cbi0090 said:


> I'm still trying to figure out what this is all supposed to be leading to?  How about this?
> 
> Year 2007
> Population - 72.3 million
> Life Expectancy - men 67.5 years  women 72.1 years (not bad)
> No. of men per women 102 (not good)
> Population over 60 - 8% (hmmmm ?)
> Population under 15 - 29.2% (you guys are busy)
> GDP per head - $4,190 (US, not bad)
> GDP spent on health care - 7.6%
> 
> Main export destinations EU - 54.6%, Germany - 13.9%, UK - 8.8%, US - 7.7%
> Import origins:  EU - 46.7%, Germany - 12.9%, Russia - 9.3%, Italy - 7.1%, US - 4.8%
> 
> What a conversation we're having!!!
> 
> Doctors per 1000 - 1.3
> GDP spent on Education - 3.6
> Adult literacy - 97.7% (very good)
> Avg number per household - 4.7 (I knew it!)
> Marriages per 1000 - 8.5
> Divorces per 1000 - .6 (pretty good but Colombia has everyone beat)
> 
> Color TV's per 100 - 68
> Telephone lines per 100 - 26.5 (do you all yodel?)
> Mobile phones per 100 - 48 (that explains the above)
> 
> There, I'm glad I got that off my chest.



It translates into Turkey is THE greatest thing ever, and if you don't agree, Canavar and the Turkish Brownshirts will visit your home in the wee hours of the morning.


----------



## ekrem

cbi0090 said:


> I'm still trying to figure out what this is all supposed to be leading to?  How about this?
> 
> Year 2007
> Population - 72.3 million
> Life Expectancy - men 67.5 years  women 72.1 years (not bad)
> No. of men per women 102 (not good)
> Population over 60 - 8% (hmmmm ?)
> Population under 15 - 29.2% (you guys are busy)
> GDP per head - $4,190 (US, not bad)
> GDP spent on health care - 7.6%
> 
> Main export destinations EU - 54.6%, Germany - 13.9%, UK - 8.8%, US - 7.7%
> Import origins:  EU - 46.7%, Germany - 12.9%, Russia - 9.3%, Italy - 7.1%, US - 4.8%
> 
> What a conversation we're having!!!
> 
> Doctors per 1000 - 1.3
> GDP spent on Education - 3.6
> Adult literacy - 97.7% (very good)
> Avg number per household - 4.7 (I knew it!)
> Marriages per 1000 - 8.5
> Divorces per 1000 - .6 (pretty good but Colombia has everyone beat)
> 
> Color TV's per 100 - 68
> Telephone lines per 100 - 26.5 (do you all yodel?)
> Mobile phones per 100 - 48 (that explains the above)
> 
> There, I'm glad I got that off my chest.



You ask where this thread is being supposed to lead to. 
I was writing about foreign relations of Turkey.

So thank you for posting these data. We can discuss willingly inner Turkish issues, if you like. But i do not get sense about talking how much Telephone lines Turkey has, how much is life expectancy or how much Turkey spents in health care. Some data have no sense in power politics.

GDP per capita we can talk about. But we then also have to take accurate data. 
For example from Deutsche Bank / German Bank.
http://www.dbresearch.de/servlet/reweb2.ReWEB?rwkey=u1562150


Public debt / GDP (2003): 79.8 %
Public debt / GDP (2007): 54,7 %

GDP per head (2003): 4,419 $
GDP per head (2007): 9,321 $

GDP nominal (2003): 305 billion $
GDP nominal (2007): 659 Billion $

GDP per head (2008 estimate): 10,737 $
GDP nominal (2008 estimate): 748 billion $

Consumer prices:






Industrial Production (1997) = 100%
Industrial Production (2007) = 139,2 %
http://www.turkstat.gov.tr/PreHaberBultenleri.do?id=1953&tb_id=1



> 65 % of the industrial materials of Middle East and North Africa are exported by Turkey.


Source: Foreign Economic Relations Board
http://www.deik.org.tr/deik_baskaninin_mesaji_eng.asp



> Turkey and Saudi Arabia alone accounted for 78.4% and 53% respectively of the region's combined manufactured trade and manufacturing value added in 2005. They also represented 81.5% of region's sophisticated manufactures (medium and high-tech manufactures), up from 66.4% in 2000.


http://www2.ifc.org/newsflash/docs/MENA_OA407.doc

These are the relevant data.
In relation to USA, Turkish datas are not comparable but with these data Turkey is THE factor in this region. And data improve year to year.
Into play comes also Military factor and other factors like environment-water.
We have no natural enemy in this region neutralizing Turkish "expansion".
An expansionist China is partly neutralized by Japan and South-Korea.

By classical expansion like economy Turkey is expanding into all directions. The heaviest into Mid-East and Central Asia. 
By saying the obvious, preconditioned you can claim to have detailed knowledge of the most important part of the world, i am in no way a Nazi. 
Turkey is one of the key countries of this century. 
I you have a problem with this certainty, it is not my fault.

Of Turkey being THE greatest thing ever is no talk about. 
Turkey has its historical, cultural Hinterland. We will do everything to power project into there. Which country would not if it had the capabilities. The turn-outs stand on expansion. And by that i do not mean necessarily territorial expansion.


----------



## roomy

The fact is, Turkey is a 3rd rate Muslim shit hole with delusions of grandeur.
Homosexuality, paedophilia and rape are the norm and lies are the new truth.


----------



## cbi0090

Look, I agree Turkey has a lot going for it.  I worked in Ankara for a short time on a bridge north of there, but it still has a long way to go and, hopefully, it will stay on course.  There are some Islamic leanings that are worrisome and you just have to come to terms with the Kurds and get over it.  Granted it's a two way street but you guys are in the drivers seat for the moment and could really do more to settle things.  
That being said, Turkey is a good example to the rest of the middle east of how and why religion has to be separated from government.  These movements to mesh the two, and it's happening all over the world including the U.S., is a formula for disaster as history has shown many times.  Keep the government in the business of governing everyone and you'll be OK.  
Nothing wrong with being proud of your accomplishments but don't expect everyone to share your enthusiasm there are still a lot of differences.  We can only hope those will disappear over time.


----------



## Toro

Turkey is a great beacon for what one would hope the Islamic states would aspire to.


----------



## roomy

Do me a fucking favour guys, Turkey is a fucking smelly shithole, it is striving to make itself a tourist attraction for the western Europeans and truth be told a lot of folks are falling for the Muslims smiley lie, but not all, and that is the crux of the matter, we don't all buy it  It will be the straw that broke the camels back when it comes to the amount of rapes etc we will put up with before we say fuck it scumbos, I suppose we will have to suck it and see.


----------



## onedomino

roomy said:


> Do me a fucking favour guys, Turkey is a fucking smelly shithole, it is striving to make itself a tourist attraction for the western Europeans and truth be told a lot of folks are falling for the Muslims smiley lie, but not all, and that is the crux of the matter, we don't all buy it  It will be the straw that broke the camels back when it comes to the amount of rapes etc we will put up with before we say fuck it scumbos, I suppose we will have to suck it and see.


The above quote is some weird, twisted, unexplained stuff from roomy.

I am no fan of Turkey due to the unmitigated lies told about America in the Turk media. According to public opinion polls (which I have previously posted and challenged canavar with), no nation despises America more than Turkey. An interesting result for an alleged ally. Turkey literally tops the list with more than 80 percent holding a negative view of America. Iran has a more favorable view of America than Turkey. But roomy, from the UK, seems to have a view of Turks that comes from a nightmare. "Amount of rapes, etc.," what is he talking about? Perhaps if he would explain, rather than leaving bizarre drive-bys, we would know to what he is referring.


----------



## roomy

onedomino said:


> The above quote is some weird, twisted, unexplained stuff from roomy.
> 
> I am no fan of Turkey due to the unmitigated lies told about America in the Turk media. According to public opinion polls (which I have previously posted and challenged canavar with), no nation despises America more than Turkey. An interesting result for an alleged ally. Turkey literally tops the list with more than 80 percent holding a negative view of America. Iran has a more favorable view of America than Turkey. But roomy, from the UK, seems to have a view of Turks that comes from a nightmare. "Amount of rapes, etc.," what is he talking about? Perhaps if he would explain, rather than leaving bizarre drive-bys, we would know to what he is referring.



Ask canavar about the rapes perpetrated upon holidaymakers every year, ask canavar about the age of the girls turkish men can marry, ask canavar about the rampant homosexuality that isn't really homosexuality in all muslim countries, ask yourself whether you know anything about anything before you question anyone.


----------



## onedomino

roomy said:


> Ask canavar about the rapes perpetrated upon holidaymakers every year, ask canavar about the age of the girls turkish men can marry, ask canavar about the rampant homosexuality that isn't really homosexuality in all muslim countries, ask yourself whether you know anything about anything before you question anyone.


Thoughtful response and along the lines of what I expected from you, expecially the insulting last part. "Anything about anything?" What a nasty thing to say. Fortunately, you are no more representative of folk from the UK than I hope canavar is of people from Turkey. Of course you have links to back up your accusations. I have read and traveled widely and have never heard of what you are referring. Let's see the links regarding "rampant homosexuality." The crime stats for visitors to Turkey are worse than other nations? Let's see the links.


----------



## Toro

Its good to see the BNP repping at USMB...


----------



## Gunny

onedomino said:


> Thoughtful response and along the lines of what I expected from you, expecially the insulting last part. "Anything about anything?" What a nasty thing to say. Fortunately, you are no more representative of folk from the UK than I hope canavar is of people from Turkey. Of course you have links to back up your accusations. I have read and traveled widely and have never heard of what you are referring. Let's see the links regarding "rampant homosexuality." The crime stats for visitors to Turkey are worse than other nations? Let's see the links.



The biggest problem with Turks is manifest in Canavar.  They still believe they are the Ottoman Empire.  Ultra-nationalists who view themselves as superior to everyone else.  

Fortunately, regardless their beliefs, their government is a bit more pragmatic than the likes of Canavar.  Remember his chest-thumping that Turkey was just going to invade Iraq and go after the Kurds and if they US tried to stop them we'd get our asses kicked too?

Reality didn't quite work out that way.  Probably why canavar was nowhere to be found.  He as pouting in the corner in his room because the Turkish government actually worked out an agreement with the US before doing anything.


----------



## onedomino

GunnyL said:


> The biggest problem with Turks is manifest in Canavar.  They still believe they are the Ottoman Empire.  Ultra-nationalists who view themselves as superior to everyone else.
> 
> Fortunately, regardless their beliefs, their government is a bit more pragmatic than the likes of Canavar.  Remember his chest-thumping that Turkey was just going to invade Iraq and go after the Kurds and if they US tried to stop them we'd get our asses kicked too?
> 
> Reality didn't quite work out that way.  Probably why canavar was nowhere to be found.  He as pouting in the corner in his room because the Turkish government actually worked out an agreement with the US before doing anything.


I do remember that. Canavar was far off the deep end in those posts. It was always clear that the Turks were not going to do anything in Iraq without US agreement. Further, the points made about the Turk government seeking a public relations move that would mollify people like canavar has also proved correct. No way has their very limited recent military activity along the northern border done anything to subdue the PKK in the long term. But such activity has had people like canavar dreaming of the glory days of the Ottoman Empire. We discussed it before. If the Turks wanted a real voice in what was going to happen in Iraq, then they needed to not wring their hands on the sidelines back in 2003, while simultaneously throwing their increasingly Islamified culture and rabid media a bone by blocking the advance of the 4th ID into northern Iraq. Instead the Turk government ducked for cover, and is now ineffectually seeking an anti Kurd response that assuages a mercurial electorate that wanted no involvement in Iraq in 2003, and now wants influence over the Kurds in 2008. Not very realistic.


----------



## Anguille

canavar said:


> Here i will write about Turkish republic. Who is interested in, can follow this thread.



Canavar, how did you feel about the criminal charges made against Orhan Pamuk in '05 for supposedly insulting Turkey's armed forces by alluding to the Armenian genocide in a magazine interview?


----------



## roomy

onedomino said:


> Thoughtful response and along the lines of what I expected from you, expecially the insulting last part. "Anything about anything?" What a nasty thing to say. Fortunately, you are no more representative of folk from the UK than I hope canavar is of people from Turkey. Of course you have links to back up your accusations. I have read and traveled widely and have never heard of what you are referring. Let's see the links regarding "rampant homosexuality." The crime stats for visitors to Turkey are worse than other nations? Let's see the links.



Show me a link to your ability to comprehend and I will show you the links you ask for as you seem to be incapable of research.


----------



## onedomino

roomy said:


> Show me a link to your ability to comprehend and I will show you the links you ask for as you seem to be incapable of research.


What a surprise. You've got nothing.


----------



## roomy

onedomino said:


> What a surprise. You've got nothing.



Yet my nothing is still twice as much as you've got, what does 2x0=?


----------



## ekrem

Anguille said:


> Canavar, how did you feel about the criminal charges made against Orhan Pamuk in '05 for supposedly insulting Turkey's armed forces by alluding to the Armenian genocide in a magazine interview?



It is normal that everyone (and i mean everyone) can accuse someone to have broken laws. 
Such a citizen is Kemal Kerincsiz makeing use of its rights, which everyone also has:


> Kemal Kerinçsiz is a Turkish ultra-nationalist lawyer,[1][2] famous for filing complaints against more than 40 Turkish journalists and authors (including Orhan Pamuk, Elif &#350;afak,[3][4] and the late Hrant Dink[5]) for "insulting Turkishness". He heads the Büyük Hukukçular Birli&#287;i ("Great Union of Jurists"), which is responsible for most Article 301 trials.[6]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemal_Kerinçsiz
When someone makes a charge court will investigate. If it finds accusations accurate person will get sanctioned. 

To Orhan Pamuk: 
Not the accusal is important but the evaluation and rendition. 
Orhan Pamuk, was speaken free of the charge. 

Another case is Hrant Dink. He was an owner of a newspaper and philosophed therein about Turkish blood. Later he was shot down by a 17 year old teenager. There is still a debate how Hrant Dink meant his article about Turkish Blood. The court interpreted it as insulting Turkishness.
Here the subjective motive on which the teenager shot Hrant Dink:


> "I read on the Internet that [Dink] said 'I am from Turkey but Turkish blood is dirty' and I decided to kill him ...I do not regret this," CNN Turk quoted Samast as saying.
> "I don't regret it. I would do it again," the youth was quoted as saying during his preliminary interrogation in Samsun, according Chief Prosecutor Ahmet Gokcinar.


http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=64501


Here a 	representative study by METU-University interrogating 18.000 student future teachers country-wide on universities.


> Close to two-thirds of students (72.1 percent) believe schools should instill a sense of Turkishness and the principles of being a Turk, according to the poll.


http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=90525
Introduceing ex ante the next generation of Turks.


Regarding article 301 of Turkish criminal code, every country has such.
Article 301 and its European cousins
http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=57105


----------



## ekrem

GunnyL said:


> The biggest problem with Turks is manifest in Canavar.  They still believe they are the Ottoman Empire.  Ultra-nationalists who view themselves as superior to everyone else.
> 
> Fortunately, regardless their beliefs, their government is a bit more pragmatic than the likes of Canavar.  Remember his chest-thumping that Turkey was just going to invade Iraq and go after the Kurds and if they US tried to stop them we'd get our asses kicked too?
> 
> Reality didn't quite work out that way.  Probably why canavar was nowhere to be found.  He as pouting in the corner in his room because the Turkish government actually worked out an agreement with the US before doing anything.



Turkish nationalism is not based on being superior to anyone else.
We also are not the Ottoman Empire. 
We are T&#252;rkiye Cumhuriyeti (Turkish Republic). As such haveing no imperial past since foundation in 1923. 

Turkey has much what Ottoman Empire didn't have and vice-versa. Ottoman Empire in its endings was a primitive farmer state dealing with spices and such. Also it did loose military backwater over its rivals. 
This theme is totally complex and can be subject to academical writings, so here is not the place to talk about, just polarizing and summarizing in 2 sentences. 

The point, GunnyL, is, that you have almost no clue about geo-politics of Turkey in regard of its influence over this region.
And this is not meant negative as we do not have an imperial past and did drive a isolationistic strategy the last 85 years. 
15 years ago there was the Soviets, 10 years ago a hostile Greece and Syria, 5 years ago  a hostile Iran and an UN-sanctioned Iraq. 
So Turkey did concentrate mainly on direct neighbors. No option of expansion in general and specifically for example 10 years ago we did not have that clear advantage over neighbours like Greece (military speaking, although creating Northern Cyprus). Greece? Yes, they are armed with High-Tech from all over the world from toe to teeths. The strongest conventional country on earth in similar population size category.
Today its totally different. We can dominate our neighbors excluding Russia, with which we do not have any problems but are cooperateing. It is a must for Russia and Turkey as well.

10 years ago, political and hostile differences did block Turkish economical expansion into neighbouring countries. Today we expand therein and beyond that. 
And that is not because Turkey is the world's economical superpower, but we are in comparison to our Hinterland the very economic power, while most of our Hinterland are fucked-up states due to different reasons and ideologies. This also is very complex.
As Turkey is also currently in Transantlantic system in general and in EU customs union specifically our economy did have to to adapt not being imperialized.
And this is also working. Turkish-EU complete trade is more than 100 billion &#8364; a year, makeing Turkey every year more important also to our traditional focus points. Today Turkey is 5th biggest trade partner of EU whilst we do import many things, we do also export a shitload of different things. Turkish mid-high technology exports rising every year paralell to Turkish brands accomplishing in traditional markets, like EU.

We are in comparison to our neighbours THE economical, industrial factor.
Only political differences can stop Turkish expansion into Hinterland. So strategy is zero-problems politics, so it is ensured that Turkish economical expansion is not hidered. 
Imagine you are a country boardering to 10 countries and 1 country is UN-sanctioned and 6 others block your business activity just because you have hostile relations to them. Substantial development can't be made in these circumstances. Tell an Iran about WTO  
In Iran for example everything state planned or in hands of religious bonjads (Mullah trusts). Other neighbours do not even have a substantial industry. 
Once boarders open (i do not speak specifically of Iran) Turkish exports skyrocket.
No "tigers" around us.
That is currently happening:
Sustainable growth rates in traditional markets and finally flooding of Turkish goods into markets of surrounding region.
Turkish private business entrepreneurship is successful and expanding. As a consequence Turkish state by wealthier citizens and higher taxes has more to spent. 

Military is also a factor, 2nd largest standing force within NATO. This does not necessarily mean anything, because we do not fight with swords. But everything what a modern-day army makes it a powerhouse, Turkey has. 
Exponentially rising self-sustaining. Turkey developing fighter aircrafts we will not see. F-35 is latest import product for airforce allthough we do have a workshare within F-35 project. By saying last it does not mean, that Turkey will leave te order at the initial order of 100-116 units. Beyond initial requirement they will replace other squadrons of F-4E 2020 Terminator, F-4E Phantom II, F-5 2000. 
All of them modernized in last years in co-production with Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) and Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI).
First requirement is 100-116 F-35. Paralell we have about 248 F-16 CCIP.
The future is UCAV and TAI is researching in these areas haveing developed indigenious UAV's.
In Navy, and Army Turkey has major indigenious projects going on. Some of them in delivery, some in development phase.
Not that shit products of reverse-engineering of North-Korean missiles for example.
If we cooperate in development then with Italy, Germany, South-Korea and Israel.
And we actually do.

Military is the biggest factor and GunnyL what he might think in general about Turkey can not deny, that TSK will bring a major shitload of destruction over our neighbours (some of them simultanouesly) once war-machinery rolls. A power which does have stronger army then Turkey (and they are not many) has as a start to bring its war-machinery into this region. For example on paper UK is militarily more advanced (especially Royal Navy) then Turkey. But our war-machinery is here, in-tact, flexible and deployable beyond our boarders.
So UK might be a bigger military power then Turkey, but in its own region. 
Or don't you agree?

So what do we have? Being THE factor  in this region
- econimically
- industrially
- militarily

This is a broad-spectrum strength to which you can add also factors like environment (water, agriculture, animal husbandry). It will be a critical factor in near future. 2025 onwards. Turkey is industrializing all its environment ressources. 
Water is subject of national security and as such utilized and investments canalized. I will not talk of being able to stop waterflow of transnational lifelines like Euphrates and Tigris. We are able. GAP project has a flooding of size of Benelux countries and will have prognosticallly agricultural output of half California once it is completed.

Scientific output, which we do also lead in this region is mainly a sub-subject of economy. So i count it. Except knowledge which is utilized by state. 
Turkey has Thorium research activities and is in development phase of uranium  nuclear reactors. Uranium reactors are being indigeniously developped for 3 Billion YTL = 2,3 Billion $. 
http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/news/402183.asp
Off course this is only development costs and setting them up economically will raise total costs. It is only development. Not taking 10 reactors online into grid.
If Turkey once wants to be a nuclear power, we have the knowledge to. And the whole cycle is in Turkish state's hand (TAEK= Atomic Energy Institution).
This blackmarket-activity is not equitably to our past and present. 
Turkey can dig into Toros-mountains and build nuclear weapons nobody even knowing about. It's those relying on blackmarket countries where IAEA comes to step on your foots. See Iran.

What misses is the delivering mechanism. ICBM's etc..
This will be solved paralell to Turkish space missile in 2014, which will bring a scientific satellite either to Mars or Moon. It is not decided yet.
Space programme is under authority of Airforce and financed from its budget.
Developer is Roketsan.
Here you can access a study of  Engineering Directorate of Roketsan giving a roadmap.
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=1512698
In Turkish sources it is being said 2014.
2011 beginning of construction of space station.

My point is working against the equatation of acting aggressively and being "important". What cliches some people do have here on board is not that important. In the end i am a nobody just writeing in his free time in a forum. Allthough on a factual basis. And I came here on a specifical subject, and after writeing that much i find it pity to let this account in the annals of Internet data-garbage after that specifical subject is getting less important.
If you do impute me megalomania, dreaming, fixing + fakeing it does not interest me  at the end of the day.
I am sure, i hope so, that there are maybe people interested in Turkey beyond those few people who actually respond to my posts.
Off course, to those people imputeing me these things: It is far from over. 
As there is dynamism in Turkey, there is much to write about.

And yes, GunnyL, i am nationalistic and there is nothing wrong about. Nationalism may have a negative bridge to fascism in west, but not in Turkey's history and practizing of my positions. I am the antonym to what you link me and permanently direct or indirect label me.


----------



## Anguille

canavar said:


> It is normal that everyone (and i mean everyone) can accuse someone to have broken laws.
> Such a citizen is Kemal Kerincsiz makeing use of its rights, which everyone also has:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemal_Kerinçsiz
> When someone makes a charge court will investigate. If it finds accusations accurate person will get sanctioned.
> 
> To Orhan Pamuk:
> Not the accusal is important but the evaluation and rendition.
> Orhan Pamuk, was speaken free of the charge.
> 
> Another case is Hrant Dink. He was an owner of a newspaper and philosophed therein about Turkish blood. Later he was shot down by a 17 year old teenager. There is still a debate how Hrant Dink meant his article about Turkish Blood. The court interpreted it as insulting Turkishness.
> Here the subjective motive on which the teenager shot Hrant Dink:
> 
> http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=64501
> 
> 
> Here a 	representative study by METU-University interrogating 18.000 student future teachers country-wide on universities.
> 
> http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=90525
> Introduceing ex ante the next generation of Turks.
> 
> 
> Regarding article 301 of Turkish criminal code, every country has such.
> Article 301 and its European cousins
> http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=57105



Thanks Canovar, for the links. particularly the one about Article 301. It's always best to hear both sides of the story.


----------



## ekrem

roomy said:


> Do me a fucking favour guys, Turkey is a fucking smelly shithole, it is striving to make itself a tourist attraction for the western Europeans and truth be told a lot of folks are falling for the Muslims smiley lie, but not all, and that is the crux of the matter, we don't all buy it  It will be the straw that broke the camels back when it comes to the amount of rapes etc we will put up with before we say fuck it scumbos, I suppose we will have to suck it and see.



Turkey is statistically the 11th country which attracts most tourists.
2007 came 23.8 million tourists to Turkey.
Also and this counts especially for Russian youth, there is something called "holiday flirt".
That under those many tourists rapes occur is possible, but i am in no knowledge of such cases. You come or you do not come. It is up to you. 
Nobody is forced to come to Turkey. 
Would those tourists be raped, they would not come every year.


----------



## Gunny

canavar said:


> Turkish nationalism is not based on being superior to anyone else.
> We also are not the Ottoman Empire.
> We are Türkiye Cumhuriyeti (Turkish Republic). As such haveing no imperial past since foundation in 1923.
> 
> Turkey has much what Ottoman Empire didn't have and vice-versa. Ottoman Empire in its endings was a primitive farmer state dealing with spices and such. Also it did loose military backwater over its rivals.
> This theme is totally complex and can be subject to academical writings, so here is not the place to talk about, just polarizing and summarizing in 2 sentences.
> 
> The point, GunnyL, is, that you have almost no clue about geo-politics of Turkey in regard of its influence over this region.
> And this is not meant negative as we do not have an imperial past and did drive a isolationistic strategy the last 85 years.
> 15 years ago there was the Soviets, 10 years ago a hostile Greece and Syria, 5 years ago  a hostile Iran and an UN-sanctioned Iraq.
> So Turkey did concentrate mainly on direct neighbors. No option of expansion in general and specifically for example 10 years ago we did not have that clear advantage over neighbours like Greece (military speaking, although creating Northern Cyprus). Greece? Yes, they are armed with High-Tech from all over the world from toe to teeths. The strongest conventional country on earth in similar population size category.
> Today its totally different. We can dominate our neighbors excluding Russia, with which we do not have any problems but are cooperateing. It is a must for Russia and Turkey as well.
> 
> 10 years ago, political and hostile differences did block Turkish economical expansion into neighbouring countries. Today we expand therein and beyond that.
> And that is not because Turkey is the world's economical superpower, but we are in comparison to our Hinterland the very economic power, while most of our Hinterland are fucked-up states due to different reasons and ideologies. This also is very complex.
> As Turkey is also currently in Transantlantic system in general and in EU customs union specifically our economy did have to to adapt not being imperialized.
> And this is also working. Turkish-EU complete trade is more than 100 billion  a year, makeing Turkey every year more important also to our traditional focus points. Today Turkey is 5th biggest trade partner of EU whilst we do import many things, we do also export a shitload of different things. Turkish mid-high technology exports rising every year paralell to Turkish brands accomplishing in traditional markets, like EU.
> 
> We are in comparison to our neighbours THE economical, industrial factor.
> Only political differences can stop Turkish expansion into Hinterland. So strategy is zero-problems politics, so it is ensured that Turkish economical expansion is not hidered.
> Imagine you are a country boardering to 10 countries and 1 country is UN-sanctioned and 6 others block your business activity just because you have hostile relations to them. Substantial development can't be made in these circumstances. Tell an Iran about WTO
> In Iran for example everything state planned or in hands of religious bonjads (Mullah trusts). Other neighbours do not even have a substantial industry.
> Once boarders open (i do not speak specifically of Iran) Turkish exports skyrocket.
> No "tigers" around us.
> That is currently happening:
> Sustainable growth rates in traditional markets and finally flooding of Turkish goods into markets of surrounding region.
> Turkish private business entrepreneurship is successful and expanding. As a consequence Turkish state by wealthier citizens and higher taxes has more to spent.
> 
> Military is also a factor, 2nd largest standing force within NATO. This does not necessarily mean anything, because we do not fight with swords. But everything what a modern-day army makes it a powerhouse, Turkey has.
> Exponentially rising self-sustaining. Turkey developing fighter aircrafts we will not see. F-35 is latest import product for airforce allthough we do have a workshare within F-35 project. By saying last it does not mean, that Turkey will leave te order at the initial order of 100-116 units. Beyond initial requirement they will replace other squadrons of F-4E 2020 Terminator, F-4E Phantom II, F-5 2000.
> All of them modernized in last years in co-production with Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) and Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI).
> First requirement is 100-116 F-35. Paralell we have about 248 F-16 CCIP.
> The future is UCAV and TAI is researching in these areas haveing developed indigenious UAV's.
> In Navy, and Army Turkey has major indigenious projects going on. Some of them in delivery, some in development phase.
> Not that shit products of reverse-engineering of North-Korean missiles for example.
> If we cooperate in development then with Italy, Germany, South-Korea and Israel.
> And we actually do.
> 
> Military is the biggest factor and GunnyL what he might think in general about Turkey can not deny, that TSK will bring a major shitload of destruction over our neighbours (some of them simultanouesly) once war-machinery rolls. A power which does have stronger army then Turkey (and they are not many) has as a start to bring its war-machinery into this region. For example on paper UK is militarily more advanced (especially Royal Navy) then Turkey. But our war-machinery is here, in-tact, flexible and deployable beyond our boarders.
> So UK might be a bigger military power then Turkey, but in its own region.
> Or don't you agree?
> 
> So what do we have? Being THE factor  in this region
> - econimically
> - industrially
> - militarily
> 
> This is a broad-spectrum strength to which you can add also factors like environment (water, agriculture, animal husbandry). It will be a critical factor in near future. 2025 onwards. Turkey is industrializing all its environment ressources.
> Water is subject of national security and as such utilized and investments canalized. I will not talk of being able to stop waterflow of transnational lifelines like Euphrates and Tigris. We are able. GAP project has a flooding of size of Benelux countries and will have prognosticallly agricultural output of half California once it is completed.
> 
> Scientific output, which we do also lead in this region is mainly a sub-subject of economy. So i count it. Except knowledge which is utilized by state.
> Turkey has Thorium research activities and is in development phase of uranium  nuclear reactors. Uranium reactors are being indigeniously developped for 3 Billion YTL = 2,3 Billion $.
> http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/news/402183.asp
> Off course this is only development costs and setting them up economically will raise total costs. It is only development. Not taking 10 reactors online into grid.
> If Turkey once wants to be a nuclear power, we have the knowledge to. And the whole cycle is in Turkish state's hand (TAEK= Atomic Energy Institution).
> This blackmarket-activity is not equitably to our past and present.
> Turkey can dig into Toros-mountains and build nuclear weapons nobody even knowing about. It's those relying on blackmarket countries where IAEA comes to step on your foots. See Iran.
> 
> What misses is the delivering mechanism. ICBM's etc..
> This will be solved paralell to Turkish space missile in 2014, which will bring a scientific satellite either to Mars or Moon. It is not decided yet.
> Space programme is under authority of Airforce and financed from its budget.
> Developer is Roketsan.
> Here you can access a study of  Engineering Directorate of Roketsan giving a roadmap.
> http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=1512698
> In Turkish sources it is being said 2014.
> 2011 beginning of construction of space station.
> 
> My point is working against the equatation of acting aggressively and being "important". What cliches some people do have here on board is not that important. In the end i am a nobody just writeing in his free time in a forum. Allthough on a factual basis. And I came here on a specifical subject, and after writeing that much i find it pity to let this account in the annals of Internet data-garbage after that specifical subject is getting less important.
> If you do impute me megalomania, dreaming, fixing + fakeing it does not interest me  at the end of the day.
> I am sure, i hope so, that there are maybe people interested in Turkey beyond those few people who actually respond to my posts.
> Off course, to those people imputeing me these things: It is far from over.
> As there is dynamism in Turkey, there is much to write about.
> 
> And yes, GunnyL, i am nationalistic and there is nothing wrong about. Nationalism may have a negative bridge to fascism in west, but not in Turkey's history and practizing of my positions. I am the antonym to what you link me and permanently direct or indirect label me.



I didn't say you were a "Nationalist."  You're an ultra-nationalist fanatic.  So much so, that you don't have a good grasp of the real world you live in.  That's exactly what you are and if you think otherwise, I suggest a good long look in the mirror.


----------



## ekrem

Saturday is party congress of CHP (Cumhuriyet Halk Partisi = Republican People's Party). CHP is the party which Atat&#252;rk founded. 
Deniz Baykal is party leader of CHP and very unsympathic. He is since 1992 Party leader of CHP and does not want to retire. He is 71 years old and has gone with CHP into election 5 times. Never achieving a mandate for government building.
To become party leader in CHP you have to get the majority of delegates within the party. 
Deniz Baykal made it so that from total 1200 delegates a candidate must have a minimum support of 253 delegates to even run for Party leader candidate election. 
This represents a 20&#37; barrier and is very undemocratic. 
CHP has currently with this type of administration no claim of being government. It is very tragic at this old man, who does not represent Turkey in any kind is playing dictator within the party allthough he is literally a loser for 5 elections.
All delegates where chosen by Deniz Baykal, who may fear retaliation if they support another candidate then Deniz Baykal.
On Saturday is now congress. A change of party leadership is very hard but still not impossible. 

Candidates are Deniz Baykal






Haluk Koc





Umut Oran





Tolga Yarman





The difference of all candidates to Deniz Baykal is, that they are much younger. 
The favourite of all opposition candidates to Deniz Baykal is Umut Oran.
He is 45 years young and represents the fresh blood in politics analog to Turkey's young population.
He is also a very succesfull businessman. 
He achieved these curriculum vita with 45 years:

1992 foundation of Domino Company
2002 President of Turkish Clothing Manufacturers Association
2002 President of the European Apparel Manufacturers Association
2002/3 President of World Ready-Wear Clothing Industrialists Federation
2002 Social Responsibility Award
2003 Turkey's Most Successful Young Man, organized by the Junior Chamber Turkey
currently
- President of Turkish Ready-Made Clothing Industry 
- President of Bolu Chamber of Commerce and Industry

As the current government faces a closure ban (judicial process might take 4-6 months) it is likely Turkey will hold general elections at the end of this year. In March 2009 are also elections in all Municipalities. 
Deniz Baykal failed to achieve majority for 5 elections. He is 71 and does not have the support of the people.
This congress is one of the key events this year in Turkey haveing the capability to influence the next years of Turkish political system.


----------



## roomy

Omut Uran will win because he is the only candidate that we know of that hasn't yet had sex with his neighbours goat, his celibacy is revered nationwide, he has vowed not to act upon his Turkish base instincts until he has presidential office and full control of all farm animals in Turkey.


----------



## ekrem

Here is a ceremony by GE (General Electric) and TEI (Turkish Enegine Industries).
Both companies started a research & design center for aircraft engines.
Both companies do also cooperate in F136 engine for VTOL version of F-35. 
http://www.tei.com.tr/1/en/news.asp?nid=46

It is likely that Turkey will also procure VTOL version of F-35. 
Aircraft/helicopter carrier (Dokdo Class of South-Korea) is also being procured which fits F-35 VTOL. 










I will post an image of Turksat 2A (will soon be junk).





As you can see, Turkey is surrounded by 4 seas: Black Sea, Mediterranean, Marmara and Aegis. Navy is very important for Turkey for more then 1 reason: Energy Security in port of Ceyhan, securing of Motherland territory from the seas and also power projection to neighbours who do not share a physical boarder with Turkey. So the philosophy is to dominate all seas surrounding us. 
Westwards in Mediteranean Sea there are still powerful navies such as Italy and France. But there is anyway no claim by Turkey to controll whole Mediteranean sea.

The port of Ceyhan lies near Adana, also in near to Incirlik Base. 





In Ceyhan do cross 3 major oil pipelines:
- Bakü-Tiflis-Ceyhan pipeline ---- 1,6 Mio Barrel/day or 80 Mio Tonnes/year
- Samsun-Ceyhan Pipeline ---- 1,6 Mio Barrel/day or 80 Mio Tonnes/year
- Kerkük-Ceyhan Pipeline ---- 1,6 Mio Barrel/day or 80 Mio Tonnes/year

The second pipeline is currently build by a joint-venture of Turkish Calik and Italian ENI, which is also operator of Kashagan oil field in Kazakhstan. Kashagan is the biggest oil field discovered in last 30 years and has 9 to 16 Billion Barrels in reserves.
ENI will transport Kashagan oil via Russian Black Sea port of Novorisijsk to Samsun where Samsun-Ceyhan Pipeline will transport oil to Ceyhan Oil terminsal.
Kirkuk-Ceyhan pipeline does currently not operate on full capacity, as Iraq is fucked up.

This makes Ceyhan  in the premise of all pipelines operateing at full capacity (which is intended) as one of the biggest Oil terminals in the world and is not only of importance to Turkey but also for international energy consumption system.
In the sphere of Ceyhan does operate Turkish coast guard. 
But i will talk better about Turkish Navy.

First Milgem Corvette will enter service in 27 September 2008. 








8 Milgems will join Turkish Navy. Derivated from Milgem project there will also enter 4 TF-1000 Frigates into Turkish Navy. After all indigeniously developed corvettes and Frigates entered service, Gölcük Naval Shipyard will begin construction on TF-2000 Frigate project. The first batch of TF-2000 is 4 Anti-Air and Anti-submarine Warfare Frigates. All these ships will enter service the next years.
- 8 Milgem Corvettes
- 4 TF-1000 Frigates
- 8 TF-2000 Frigates

TF-2000 project does cost only 15 Billion $, as reported by CNN-Türk.

In case of war, Turkey is able to mass produce these ships.
As Turkish Navy is already dominating its surrounding seas, these new ships will widen the gap to potential rivals.
Turkey will also procure 6 new AIP submarines. Those submarines is no indigenious project and SSM (Arms procurement authority) will likely choose German made U-212/4 submarines. 
With current 14 German submarines, Turkish Navy is operateing more German Submarines then German Navy itself. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_navy#Main_equipment
With 6 new it will total 20 German made submarines.

Turkish Navy also procures LPD (Landing Plattform Dock) from South-Korea. It is the Dokdo class capable of carrying Attak-Helicopters or F-35 VTOL version.









Turkish Navy within the comming years:
- 20 submarine
- 22 Frigates
- 14 corvettes
- 1 Helicopter / F-35 VTOL carrier
- 48 Fast Attack Missile & Torpedo Boats
- 55 Naval Warfare Helicopters / Anti-Submarine
- 26 Mine Warfare Ships
- 7 Main Landing Ships
- 50 landing crafts

Those (remember it is relative to what you compare) small ships are mainly armed with different Block versions of Harpoon missiles.  
Max 315 KM range.




With about 450 Harpoon missiles, Turkish navy operates them most after US Navy.


----------



## ekrem

Here is a ceremony by GE (General Electric) and TEI (Turkish Enegine Industries).
Both companies started a research & design center for aircraft engines.
Both companies do also cooperate in F136 engine for VTOL version of F-35. 
http://www.tei.com.tr/1/en/news.asp?nid=46

It is likely that Turkey will also procure VTOL version of F-35. 
Aircraft/helicopter carrier (Dokdo Class of South-Korea) is also being procured which fits F-35 VTOL. 







I will post an image of Turksat 2A (will soon be junk).





As you can see, Turkey is surrounded by 4 seas: Black Sea, Mediterranean, Marmara and Aegis. Navy is very important for Turkey for more then 1 reason: Energy Security in port of Ceyhan, securing of Motherland territory from the seas and also power projection to neighbours who do not share a physical boarder with Turkey. So the philosophy is to dominate all seas surrounding us. 
Westwards in Mediteranean Sea there are still powerful navies such as Italy and France. But there is anyway no claim by Turkey to controll whole Mediteranean sea.

The port of Ceyhan lies near Adana, also in near to Incirlik Base. 





In Ceyhan do cross 3 major oil pipelines:
- Bakü-Tiflis-Ceyhan pipeline ---- 1,6 Mio Barrel/day or 80 Mio Tonnes/year
- Samsun-Ceyhan Pipeline ---- 1,6 Mio Barrel/day or 80 Mio Tonnes/year
- Kerkük-Ceyhan Pipeline ---- 1,6 Mio Barrel/day or 80 Mio Tonnes/year

The second pipeline is currently build by a joint-venture of Turkish Calik and Italian ENI, which is also operator of Kashagan oil field in Kazakhstan. Kashagan is the biggest oil field discovered in last 30 years and has 9 to 16 Billion Barrels in reserves.
ENI will transport Kashagan oil via Russian Black Sea port of Novorisijsk to Samsun where Samsun-Ceyhan Pipeline will transport oil to Ceyhan Oil terminsal.
Kirkuk-Ceyhan pipeline does currently not operate on full capacity, as Iraq is fucked up.

This makes Ceyhan  in the premise of all pipelines operateing at full capacity (which is intended) as one of the biggest Oil terminals in the world and is not only of importance to Turkey but also for international energy consumption system.
In the sphere of Ceyhan does operate Turkish coast guard. 
But i will talk better about Turkish Navy.

First Milgem Corvette will enter service in 27 September 2008. 








8 Milgems will join Turkish Navy. Derivated from Milgem project there will also enter 4 TF-1000 Frigates into Turkish Navy. After all indigeniously developed corvettes and Frigates entered service, Gölcük Naval Shipyard will begin construction on TF-2000 Frigate project. The first batch of TF-2000 is 4 Anti-Air and Anti-submarine Warfare Frigates. All these ships will enter service the next years.
- 8 Milgem Corvettes
- 4 TF-1000 Frigates
- 8 TF-2000 Frigates

TF-2000 project does cost only 15 Billion $, as reported by CNN-Türk.

In case of war, Turkey is able to mass produce these ships.
As Turkish Navy is already dominating its surrounding seas, these new ships will widen the gap to potential rivals.
Turkey will also procure 6 new AIP submarines. Those submarines is no indigenious project and SSM (Arms procurement authority) will likely choose German made U-212/4 submarines. 
With current 14 German submarines, Turkish Navy is operateing more German Submarines then German Navy itself. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_navy#Main_equipment
With 6 new it will total 20 German made submarines.

Turkish Navy also procures LPD (Landing Plattform Dock) from South-Korea. It is the Dokdo class capable of carrying Attak-Helicopters or F-35 VTOL version.






Turkish Navy within the comming years:
- 20 submarine
- 22 Frigates
- 14 corvettes
- 1 Helicopter / F-35 VTOL carrier
- 48 Fast Attack Missile & Torpedo Boats
- 55 Naval Warfare Helicopters / Anti-Submarine
- 26 Mine Warfare Ships
- 7 Main Landing Ships
- 50 landing crafts

Those (remember it is relative to what you compare) small ships are mainly armed with different Block versions of Harpoon missiles.  
Max 315 KM range.




With about 450 Harpoon missiles, Turkish navy operates them most after US Navy.


----------



## Toro

Midnight Express was a great movie.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Toro*
> Midnight Express was a great movie.



Specially that part near the end where that fat turk starts pulling down his pants to sodomise the american prisoner.


----------



## roomy

José;689342 said:
			
		

> Specially that part near the end where that fat turk starts pulling down his pants to sodomise the american prisoner.




when he gets the coat hanger in his skull               I've never laughed so much         fucking Turkish homos, endemic homosexuality and paedophilia, muslim culture gives me murderous tendencies.


----------



## Gunny

roomy said:


> when he gets the coat hanger in his skull               I've never laughed so much         fucking Turkish homos, endemic homosexuality and paedophilia, muslim culture gives me murderous tendencies.




Oh, so you've met Canavar?


----------



## roomy

GunnyL said:


> Oh, so you've met Canavar?




He's an idiot muslim nationalist, if we weren't free speech western world, I would advocate banning the c**t.


----------



## ekrem

According to Turkish Defence Minister Gönül Turkish defence industry supplies total need of Turkish Army by a rate of 47% in 2008.
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/ekonomi/8874844.asp?m=1

The figures for the previous years are as follows:
*2006:* 36,5 %
*2007:* 41,5 %
http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/news/445212.asp

*2008:* 47%
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/ekonomi/8874844.asp?m=1

Some projects of Defence Industries for Turkish Land Forces:

*T-155 FIRTINA* (72 produced of 350 units ordered)
The T-155 F&#305;rt&#305;na (Turkish: Storm) has used some of the subsystems of the South-Korean K-9 produced by Samsung Techwin, which entered service into South Korean Army in 1999.
Even though the overall design of the T-155 looks similar to the K-9, the Turkish howitzer has considerable differences in its turret design, navigation system and electronical systems.
The Firtina fires 155mm rockets fired by a rate of 6-8/minute.
Firing Range: 40 km
Operational range: 480 km




*
T-155 panteher* (120 delivered from 400 units order)
developed by MKE.
Fires 155 mm rockets.










*MITÜP (National Tank Production Project)* (1000 units in 4 batches a 250 units)
Cooperatively developed by Turkish Aselsan, MKE, STM and South-Korean Samsung Techwin, Rotem and South Korean Agency for Defense Development(ADD).
In order to improve the current technical capabilities of the Turkish defense industries and increase the amount of domestic contribution towards national defense, the Undersecreteriat for Defense Industries decided that a "National Tank" will serve as an excellent catalyst for uniting certain Turkish defense companies around a common goal and for providing the Turkish military with extra firepower in the form of a modern tank.

Turkish Tank will be a Turkish improvement of Korean K2 Black Panther, which itself enters into South-Korean army in mass production from 2011 onwards and which is regarded as the most modern tank currently.






Demonstration designs of MITÜP:










*Volkan (Leopard-1 Tank Improvment Project)*
393 Leopard-1 Tanks are being upgraded by Aselsan with new Firecontrol-System, and other electronical subsystems.
The new indigenous system provides the capability of detecting the targets day and night in all weather conditions and combat environments. It highly increases the first round hit probability on the move.












*
Sabra Project* (170 M60 Patton tanks being heavily modernized)
Upgrade being carried out by Turkish MKE, Aselsan and Israelian IMI (Israelian Military Industries) and Elbit Systems.
- Merkava 120mm gun
- Merkava modular passive armour protection
- Merkava explosive reactive armour
- thermal imaging system
- automatic fire and explosion suppression system
- Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Protection
- full system modernization






*T129 ATAK* (50 units +41 optional)
Based on the British-Italian A129 attack helicopter, T129 will be intellectual property right of Turkish TAI (Turkish Aerospace Industries) includeing  sales rights for the world excluding Italy and England.
T129 will be a heavy modernization of A129.
- indigenious mission computer
- Indigenous Electronic warfare and countermeasures
- indigenious targeting pod
- indigenious Friend&Foe identification
- indigenious communication systems
- indigenious digital mapping system
- indigenious helmet-mounted cueing system
- indigenious rockets
...
...
...
- Air to ground Missile carrying capabilty raised to 12 from previous 8.
- now able to carry 4 Air to Air missiles from previous 0.
- Mast radar, similar to that of the Apache Longbow but based on IAI/ELTA's (Israel) being able to identify enemies up to 30 km
- Commanche LHTEC-800 engines, which were designed for never-being-built Commanche attack-helicopter. Will improve engine power by 20%.
Only the airframe of A129 will stay the same

MMW radar of Israelian firms will be later replaced by Aselsan's MMW radar with 35GhZ, there are development problems.








*CIRIT Laser guided rocket* (1.000 ordered)
The 78mm laser guided rocket was developed by Roketsan and mass-production started in 2008. CIRIT will become the stadard rocket of all attack-helicopters in Turkish army includeing future T129. 
Three mix warhead:
- anti-armor
- anti-personel
- burning









*
UMTAS* (1.000 ordered)
The 165 mm heavy anti-tank missile was developed by Roketsan and mass-production started in 2008. UMTAS will be the standard anti-tank missile in Turkish Army.
- Imaging Infra-Red seeker
- LoBL/LoAL (Lock on Before Launch/Lock on After Launch) capability
- different warheads per mission with HEAT explosives being standard equippment




*
OMTAS*
Little brother of UMTAS being fired by Attack-Helicopters and manpads.
*
Kas&#305;rga WS-1A (Unguided, 80 KM, CEP 1%) & Kasirga WS-1B (Unguided, 180 KM, CEP 1,25%)*
Developed by Roketsan.
Fires 302mm rockets.










*
Yildirim 1 (inertial guided CEP 0.17%, 150 KM) & Yildirim 2 (inertial + GPS guidance CEP <50m, 300 KM)*
Developed by Roketsan with Chinese Army.









*
Toros230 (65km) & Toros260 (110 km)*
deveoped by Tübitak (Turkish Research Council)


*
FNSS Pars* (102 units order)
Deliveries to begin 2009-2010
Speed: 100km/h
Operational Range: 1000 KM




*
Cobra AH-1 update*
Carried out by Aselsan. Fire tests were done in October 2007. As OMTAS/UMTAS rockets were then not in inventory, Israeli NTD missiles were used.
- indigenous main mission computer
- indigenious electronics
- indigenious avionics 
- indigenious fire control system













Left with hat Murad Bayar, chief of SSM (Army procurement authority). In the 
middle Defence Minister Vecdi Gönül.










and many many more.
Check Turkish Defence Industry Catalogue from SSM (Arms procurement authority).
http://www2.ssm.gov.tr/katalog2007/index.html




OFF-Topic.
Oliver Stone sorry for Midnight Express
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/dec/16/turkey.film

Billy Hayes, on whose experience in Turkish jail and his written book the film bases appeared on YouTube (Part 1 - Part 2) recorded during the 1999 Cannes Film Festival, in which he described his real experiences and expressed his disappointment with the film adaptation.[2]
In an article for the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, Hayes was reported as saying that the film 'depicts all Turks as monsters'.[3]


Also see Anti-Turkism
# Anti-Turkish examples in film and theatre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Turkism#Anti-Turkish_examples_in_film_and_theatre


----------



## ekrem

José;689342 said:
			
		

> Specially that part near the end where that fat turk starts pulling down his pants to sodomise the american prisoner.



The film is Hollywood with Billy Hayes rejecting the film and Oliver Stone apologizing after years for his shitwork. 
Also no Turk played in the movie and the actors were all Greek and Armenian.


----------



## ekrem

GunnyL said:


> Oh, so you've met Canavar?



Did i fuck you homosexually, that you have any credibility in associateing me with such?


----------



## roomy

canavar said:


> Did i fuck you homosexually, that you have any credibility in associateing me with such?


  YOU WISH TURK.


----------



## ekrem

roomy said:


> YOU WISH TURK.



No i wish not, and do not associate me with the mirrorside of your pitiful person.


----------



## roomy

canavar said:


> No i wish not, and do not associate me with the mirrorside of your pitiful person.




Fuck off  you miserable, muslim, backstabbing, homosexual ,paedophile ****.


----------



## Gunny

canavar said:


> Did i fuck you homosexually, that you have any credibility in associateing me with such?



Are you still alive?  I believe that would answer your question, wouldn't it?  

Where did I associate you with anything other than being an ultranationalist fascist Turk with delusions of once again becomming the Ottoman Empire?

I merely commented that perhaps Roomy knows you.  Any other inference is purely assumption on YOUR part.


----------



## Toro

Actually, I quite liked Turkey.  It was one of my favorite places to visit.  But I think this thread is a bit over the top.


----------



## roomy

Toro said:


> Actually, I quite liked Turkey.  It was one of my favorite places to visit.  But I think this thread is a bit over the top.



Forgive me do


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *canavar*
> The film is Hollywood with Billy Hayes rejecting the film and Oliver Stone apologizing after years for his shitwork.
> Also no Turk played in the movie and the actors were all Greek and Armenian.



Lighten up, canavar

Turkey was indeed portrayed in a bad light but its just a movie.

Everybody with a functioning brain knows perfectly well thats not an accurate depiction of the judiciary and people of Turkey.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *roomey*
> when he gets the coat hanger in his skull               I've never laughed so much         fucking Turkish homos, endemic homosexuality and paedophilia, muslim culture gives me murderous         tendencies.



Roomy

The funniest thing was the fact that the guy took the most severe beating in the history of Hollywood and didnt react.

But when he saw the fat turk unzipping his pants he thought to himself:

*Thats it This is where I draw the line. Hell if Im gonna let you spank me down there.*

And then killed the fatso turk


----------



## José

Roomy

We need an antidote to all this homosexual talk.

On behalf of all the horny dogs of the USMB I beg you:

*TELL US ALL ABOUT NIGELLA LAWSONS TITS!!!!!*


----------



## José

I&#8217;m not joking, roomy, I have a major crush on Nigella.

Hell, my favorite tv genre is documentaries&#8230; any type of documentary but specially on science and nature. I must have watched hundreds of BBC documentaries.

I never watched a single cooking show in my entire life before her&#8230;

And even now, the only thing I want to eat is Nigella herself.

Man, despite all my admiration for her, that woman boggles my mind&#8230;

She talks all the time about what she eats at 9:00 AM, 10:00 AM, 11:00 etc, etc, etc&#8230;

That woman doesn&#8217;t eat to live, she lives to eat!!!

Doesn&#8217;t she get satisfied or at least tired of eating?

Doesn&#8217;t she do anything else in her life?

I like to eat too but that&#8217;s an obsession.

I&#8217;d marry Nigella in a heartbeat and I make a reasonable amount of money in my field but I&#8217;m not sure I can afford half the food that woman devours (thank god she&#8217;s a millionaire).

Small wonder she has that big fat ass that drives me crazy.


----------



## José

Tell us all you know about your busty compatriot, Roomy.


----------



## roomy

José;690080 said:
			
		

> Tell us all you know about your busty compatriot, Roomy.




Shut the fuck up you idiot.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *roomy*
> Shut the fuck up you idiot.



OK, but only if you let me suck those two massive watermel...,err, I mean, tits till they dry.


----------



## roomy

José;690156 said:
			
		

> OK, but only if you let me suck those two massive watermel...,err, I mean, tits till they dry.




Feel free but Nigellas are bigger than mine


----------



## nibor

Actually I wasn't aware that Turkey was our enemy..................beyond theopolitical nonsense..........why would we not wish them well.............someone enlighten me.............


----------



## roomy

nibor said:


> Actually I wasn't aware that Turkey was our enemy..................beyond theopolitical nonsense..........why would we not wish them well.............someone enlighten me.............




I guess I am just an old fashioned racist


----------



## nibor

roomy said:


> I guess I am just an old fashioned racist



Well the fact that being a "nationalist" no matter what nation you happen to live in is normal and a good thing in most instances and SHOULD be a point of pride in your existence instead of allowing yourself to be brainwashed into actually believing that you're merely an invisible citizen of the globalist cluster fuck patrol.....................now if this person were coming here stating that in time we would all be bowing to his Islam or country, then I think I'd have the same reaction as you guys(with your apparent nationalism).................but I've not read it...........maybe I missed it?????????


----------



## Toro

nibor said:


> Actually I wasn't aware that Turkey was our enemy..................beyond theopolitical nonsense..........why would we not wish them well.............someone enlighten me.............



They're not.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *roomy*
> Feel free but Nigellas are bigger than mine



No, thanks...

I'm not *THAT* desperate.


----------



## GHook93

Toro said:


> Turkey is a great beacon for what one would hope the Islamic states would aspire to.



100% agree with that!


----------



## ekrem

Today the Constitutional court abolished a law which granted head-scrafed women entrance to universities.
AFP: Turkish court annuls headscarf law in blow to government

Women entering Universities with head-scarfs is forbidden since 1982 constitution.
Earlier this year the government (AKP) together with an opposition party (MHP) agreed to abolish that passage of constitution and an other opposition party (CHP) took that initiative by the 2 other partys to the constitutional court. 
The constitutional court said, that the change of constituion in this regard violates secularism. 

Paralell there is the case of AKP-closure case waiting at the constitutional court. State prosecutor Yalcinkaya opened a case and transfered it to the constitutional court, and AKP has already given written defence in front of the constitutional court. Yalcinkaya claims AKP is undermining secularism. 
Today it is clear that AKP will be shut down, as constitutional court itself said AKP has violated principles of secularism in a paralell case.



> "The law of February 9th making constitutional amendments to lift a ban on headscarf at universities has been cancelled based on the constitution's articles no. 2, 4 and 148. The execution of the law has also been stopped", said the Constitution Court.
> (...)
> The case is seen as a proxy in the closure case filed against the ruling AKP in March in which the chief prosecutor cited this law as an evidence to close down the party.
> 
> Article 2 of the constitution describes Turkey as a "secular and democratic Republic," and Article 4 says the first three articles cannot be amended or even proposed to be amended. Article 148 defines the mandate of the Constitutional Court.
> 
> The law of February 9th amended articles 10 (equality before law) and 42 (right and duty of training and education) of the Constitution.Turkey's ruling AKP, with the backing of the nationalist MHP, had passed the bill amending the constitution to lift the headscarf ban in universities in February. Public opinion is divided over the issue and the main opposition CHP and the leftist DSP had challenged the bill in the Constitutional Court. (...)


Turkish top court annuls headscarf law, deals a blow to ruling AKP

The announcement of the other case by constitutional court is expected end summer early spring.


----------



## William Joyce

So, canavar, I've heard the Turks are really just crypto-Jews, and Ataturk was nothing but a Jew.

True?


----------



## Dirt McGirt

GunnyL said:


> Big deal.  Who HASN'T kicked France's ass?



Lichtenstein....but give them time.


----------



## Toro

Portugal spanked Turkey on Saturday, 2-0.

The turks aren't a bad team though.  They might get through to the second round.


----------



## turkemre

ekrem you aren't alone ok?


----------



## ekrem

After a medium break, I want to write a bit about Energy. Particularly about Oil & Gas. 

The Turkish state is involved in Upstream and Midstream. 
The state company TPAO is drilling and searching for oil, and state company BOTAS is laying all pipelines within the country.
TPAO would have been one of the biggest companies around in this region, would the "free-market" State philosophy would not have split TPAO. 
During the decades, there were 17 new companies found out of the core mass of TPAO and 16 of them privatized. 
From gas stations to refineries all was taken out of TPAO. The 17th company is BOTAS, but is still in the hands of the state. And it seems that TPAO and BOTAS will fusion.

Turkey 'eyes energy flagship'
Turkey 'eyes energy flagship' - Upstreamonline

Also TPAO has announced to vertically expand in the sector again by establishing gas stations and refineries. As in Turkey gas prices are very high this is a good idea as here you can earn very much.

Turkey's oil consumption is about 700.000 barrels/day. Of this TPAO supplies only about 105.000 Barrels (70.000 Barrels of internal production in Turkey, 35.000 in other countries).
There are University studies etc. saying that only about 40% of Turkish territory have been explored for oil, but about that i will not talk, as the hopes in domestic oil & gas finds are in the seas around us. Mainly the Black Sea and Mediterenean.

According to the CEO of TPAO, TPAO has indications that in the middle part of Turkish Black Sea soverignity area are around 10 Billion Barrels of oil.



> But while expanding operations abroad offers the chance to broaden operations, the ace up TPAO's sleeve is closer to home: a major oil find off Turkey's Black Sea coast.
> "Seismic surveys have indicated reserves of around 10bn barrels," Mr Uysal says with a smile.
> The find is reckoned to stretch from the central Black Sea region as far as the Georgian border.
> "We're planning to drill the first well in 2010 and to have reached full production some time after 2015."
> TPAO aims to exploit the find in partnership with Petrobras of Brazil, with which it has a five-year exploration agreement for two blocks on Turkey's western Black Sea coast.


FT.com / Companies / Energy Utilities Mining - Turkish group looks south

THE BLACK SEA OIL FIELDS MAY MAKE TURKEY ENERGY INDEPENDENT
THE BLACK SEA OIL FIELDS MAY MAKE TURKEY ENERGY INDEPENDENT - Eurasia Daily Monitor

The area where the oilfield is laying is marked in the follwing map as TPAO-BR-JV. It is in the middle. BR stands for Petrobras from Brazil, the most specialiced oil drilling company in offshore terms.





The CEO of TPAO says, that drilling will start in 2010, and in 2015 the oilfield in this block of Black Sea will provide half of Turkey's oil demand. And in 2023, the 100th aniversary of Turkish Repulic, the oilfield will produce total demand of Turkish consumption.

As you can see in the above map, there are still areas of Turkish Black Sea, were TPAO has no partnership and is not drilling. There will follow another licencing rounds to take on board International Companies to explore and exploit those areas.
According to TPAO Chevron and EXXON are interested to drill with TPAO in some areas of Black Sea.


> The president of TPAO said that energy companies like Chevron and Exxon Mobil also have expressed an interest in drilling in the Back Sea.


THE BLACK SEA OIL FIELDS MAY MAKE TURKEY ENERGY INDEPENDENT - Eurasia Daily Monitor

So the logic says, where Oil is is also gas, and where those 2 are, there is a high potential that there will be discovered more. More so, if Romania already produces oil in Black Sea and Ukraine has also found oil reserves in Black Sea.

What does this mean beside energy security for Turkey? First, money stays within the country which would have gone outside for oil imports. As Turkey is free-market economy, it is the private economy which imports the oil. 
Exponentially rising and in 2015 reaching capability to supply half of private companies oil demand, Turkish private companies will now pay the oil money to TPAO. TPAO is State company. So State has a new income source. Which Turkish State did not have before, but reached a far more point than Countries around us who earned money with oil for decades.

Also Turkey is already a refinery heavyweight in the region, exporting gasoline to Iraq, Iran and others around us.  This capacity will be extended and this will transform in political weight. 


> The president of the state-owned Turkish Petroleum Corporation (TPAO) said that &#8220;between 2007 and 2012, $87 billion is planned to be invested in the petroleum industry&#8221;


THE BLACK SEA OIL FIELDS MAY MAKE TURKEY ENERGY INDEPENDENT - Eurasia Daily Monitor


From aspect of Turkish GDP, there is a sector waiting to explode and contribute to GDP expansion. And after all Turkish state has more money to spent. Good to hear, that Turkey produces now also its indigenious Oil & Gas searching ships. With the prototype have cost 100 Million $.
Petrol arama gemisi yapýlacak

Before these ships, we had to take the services of foreign companies for these activities. 
Such as 


> Schlumberger announced today that Turkish state oil company Turkiye Petrolleri A.O. (TPAO) has contracted WesternGeco to conduct the largest high-specification Q-Marine* 3D exploration surveys *ever undertaken in the Black Sea*.


http://www.westerngeco.com/content/about/press_releases/2006/news_08022006.asp


----------



## politicsezine

ekrem said:


> So the logic says, where Oil is is also gas, and where those 2 are, there is a high potential that there will be discovered more. More so, if Romania already produces oil in Black Sea and Ukraine has also found oil reserves in Black Sea.



WTF?

Crude oil is made into gasoline (also known as petroleum) in an oil refinery. Gasoline isn't found naturally in the world.

Unless you're thinking of natural gas, in which case you should say natural gas. Otherwise it is just confusing.

To my knowledge nobody drills for natural gas offshore anyway. Its just not done. We have tonnes of natural gas anyway. There's no shortage of it.

And if you were thinking in terms of gasoline... well, sheesh. That is as bad as the vegetarian who only drinks powdered milk because they think dairy farms torture cows for the milk (when in reality powdered milk is made from real milk anyway).

Vegetarians are so clueless sometimes. Especially when they wear leather jackets and boots. Such hypocrites.


----------



## ekrem

I know, that many of you do not have much knowledge about Turkey. The knowledge you might have is a bit on foreign policy and through an US perspective.

I want to write about the closure case against the AKP and what might come next. 
For this you have to know, that current Prime Minister Erdogan is a very charismatic leader. He is nearly unmatched in approaching the publics. Also his talking skills are very good. 
In short he is very popular. In Turkey "political parties" are not that important as it is the leaders of the parties. The electors do vote for the persons leading the party and not necassarily for the programme of the party.

Also when Erdogan came to power, it happened through a new founded party. The AKP. The time frame also played into the hands of the new party, as AKP was elected into office in 2002, and just months ago in 2001 Turkey had the worst economic crisis since Republic's foundation. 
People were sick of old dinosaurs in Turkish politics, and might have thought that these dinosaurs were given enough chance and they did lead Turkey in a economic crisis. So AKP was elected. 

For example former president Süleyman Demirel has lead DYP party over 30 years. Current leader of CHP party is about 70 years old and has lead the party into election 6 times, never achieving victory, but staying at the head of the party. 
This is what it is called being dinosaur. 

Turkish people think very much with the heart. And sometimes irrationally. Many depends on persons in politics. 
And AKP party will get closed. It is an unspoken secret. Not so secret if i think more about. 

There is a person which was deputy in AKP, state minister for economics. But today he resigned from AKP party. Paralelly he teaches economics in TOBB University.
His name is Sener. He is very young, and as much talented in approaching the masses as Erdogan is. Also he is a professor and all polls in Turkey show, that he is one of the most trusted and loved persons in politics. 
There is for long rumours in Turkish newspapers floating that Sener will form a new party. The party has the support of TOBB, which is the "Union of Chambers and Commodity Exchanges of Turkey" and is very powerfull. Sener also is Professor at an TOBB University. TOBB is together with TÜSIAD (Association of Turkish Business) the most powerfull civil institution within Turkey.  
What they say counts, as money makes the talk. 

Head of TOBB is Hisarciklioglu who hisself is a factor when talking about Turkish economy. It is being said, that Hisarciklioglu will also take a leading role within Sener's new party. So the party will be lead by Professors and leading business persons of the country. This is an important message for the public, as it implies that public can vote for them without fearing they will crash the economy. 

Today Sener resigned from AKP party officially. And today also there where advertises in Turkish newspapers of a new party being formed with Sener's picture on the advertise. 






AKP will get banned in about 3-6 weeks. Turkey will have new elections in fall of this year. And there is a very high chance that the masses will give confidence to this new party in the elections to be held in fall this year. 
The AKP is getting destroyed, and split from within. When AKP is being banned, there will be transfers from former AKP members to the new party. Off course Sener will select them and off course only members will be transferred who will not have a political ban by the Constitutional court in about 3-6 weeks. 

It is being said in newspaper articles, that about 60 AKP members of Turkish parliament have already signaled to switch to the new party.
Sener is 54, Hisarciklioglu 53. So this is fresh blood in an environment of dinosaurs. 
Also, allthough you as US citizens might not know the names, there are several names from former politics and civil society who will start career in Sener's party. 
Newspapers report that Sener and his gang are in the believe that to be elected there is being the need for a strong squad, who are clean (corruption) and have sympathies in the public. 

I think Sener will be new Prime Minister of Turkey in some months. Good for Turkey. He is very talented, a person of integrity, can talk very well and the masses love him. 
As a bonus he is one of the most competent men in Turkey in cases of Economy.


----------



## ekrem

From Jamestown Foundation.
ABDULLATIF SENER: A DIVISIVE FACTOR OR THE NEW POLITICAL LEADER OF TURKEY? - Eurasia Daily Monitor

In short:
- Sener is one of 4 founding members of AKP.
- Polls reveal Sener is most appreciated political leader in center right after Gül and Erdogan.
- Sener did critizize corruption within AKP and therefore declined to be Parliament Member for AKP in July 2007 elections.
- has support of biggest media conglomerate in Turkey (Dogan Holding).
- is currently holding rallies and meetings in conservative cities mainly with AKP voters.
- is respected by ultra-secularists of society



> It seems that Seners role in short-term politics will be to divide the ruling party, but it is not clear how deep a political wound he might leave on the face of the AKP, since there is absolutely no sign as to what Erdogans plan will be if the court shuts his party down. Sener is in a critical position and must play the right cards at just the right time. Sener could become Erdogans Brutus or, with the help of the political climate and a bit of luck, he could be the next leader of Turkey.



And what Jamestownfoundation did not mentioned:
- One of the wisest men in Turkish economics
- Currently serving as professor in University of TOBB ::TOBB ETU:: TOBB UNIVERSITY OF ECONOMICS AND TECHNOLOGY
- has support of TOBB, Union of Chambers and Exchange Commodities which consists of 178 Industry Chambers, 60 commerce chambers, 113 Exchanges, 2 Sea Trade Chambers. 
Has 1,3 Million members. 
Türkiye Odalar ve Borsalar Birli?i - Vikipedi


----------



## ekrem

Today is a good day for Israelian-Turkish relations. 
There were for years talks about pipelines to be built between Turkey and Israel, which interconnects both countries. There was since years goodwill for this project and also a study team was selected to make a preliminary feasibility study. 

The feasibility study shows that the project is economicaly viable and in the next weeks a framework agreement will be signed between Israel and Turkey. A Turkish team will visit Israel in next days. 
The target completion date is 2012-2013. 
There will be built
- oil pipeline (20-50 million tonnes a year)
- natural gas pipeline (4-10 billion m³)
- electricity pipeline (4,200 MW)
- water pipeline (400 million - 1 billion m³)

All crossing the Mediteranean from Turkish Ceyhan to Israelian Haifa.
Turkey will supply Israel with those 4 ressources. 
Read more at Israelian Ministry
Messages - Med Stream


----------



## ekrem

Today SSM (Arms Procurement Authority) chose German U-214 submarines.
The submarines are engined by hydrogen fuelcells and are very modern.
Type 214 submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Turkey will order 6 pieces, with the first entering service in 2015. 
The submarines will be built in Gölcük Naval Military Shipyard near Istanbul. 
Turkish industrial participation will be at 80 percent. Around 20 of the systems and sub-systems of U-214 will be built by Turkish industry. 
UPDATE 3-Turkey in $4 bln submarines deal with HDW | Industries | Autos & Transport | Reuters

Nice. Turkey already has great experience with German submarines. We produced them all local, with a mix of German-Turkish industry participation as it will be again with U-214 order. 
Turkey will remain its status as described here:


> The Turkish Navy is also the largest operator of German-designed submarines in the world.


Type 209 submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## ekrem

3 days left till first MILGEM corvette will be released to sea:
Deniz Kuvvetleri Komutanlýðý Resmi Kurumsal Ýnternet Sitesidir - Anasayfa - Turkish Naval Forces Official Web Site - Main Page










MILGEMs will be produced 12 times and are indigenious. Displacement is 2.000 tonnes.
It is a stealth corvette ship. 
You can read here from "Arms Procurement Authority" which sub-projects and sub-components were developed for MILGEM.
Patrol & Anti-Submarine Warfare Ship (MILGEM) Project

Stealth materials and paints have developed by Aselsan-Tubitak-ODTU. The most important feature of the new materials is that they provide high absorption and reduce the radar cross section by 1/1000, which means it enables a 100-squaremeter object to be perceived as 0.1 square meter.










A derivate of MILGEM will be "TF-100"-Type  Frigate. This derivate will be longer and will displace more tonnes. MILGEM is Anti-Submarine Corvette.
"TF-100" will be multirole Frigate.
Milgem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After MILGEM and TF-100 Projects are completed, TF-2000 project will begin. 
TF-2000 will be a complete different design and is intended for Anti-Air warfare with a displacement of 5.500 tonnes. 
According to CNN-Türk TF-2000 project will add a volume of 15 billion $ to Turkish defence industry:
CNNTürk 2008 - Sava? Gemisi Çal??tay? ?ubatta toplan?yor

"Arms Procurement Authority" approved building of 4 TF-2000 ships
TF 2000 Project


----------



## Sunni Man

Turkey is making a mistake in dealing with the Zionist leadership of Israel.

Someday Turkey will regret dealing with Israel.


----------



## ekrem

Sunni Man said:


> Turkey is making a mistake in dealing with the Zionist leadership of Israel.
> 
> Someday Turkey will regret dealing with Israel.



If Turkey is going to regret anything or change anything this motivation will come from inside Turkey. Off course no nation is really fully independent in this globalized world, but leaving aside globalization with shocks unable to prevent from being felt also in Turkey, Turks do make their own politics in full independence. 

There is no one around being able to let Turkey regret anything.


----------



## ekrem

Today was a special day in Astronomy. Jupiter stood near to the moon.
Here a picture taken from Turkish city Edirne:






And some history (picture taken from Wikipedia, Software "stellarium")


----------



## Annie

ekrem said:


> Today was a special day in Astronomy. Jupiter stood near to the moon.
> Here a picture taken from Turkish city Edirne:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And some history (picture taken from Wikipedia, Software "stellarium")



So Canavar, you've jumped the shark, big time. Congrats!


----------



## Lycurgus

ekrem said:


> If Turkey is going to regret anything or change anything this motivation will come from inside Turkey. Off course no nation is really fully independent in this globalized world, but leaving aside globalization with shocks unable to prevent from being felt also in Turkey, Turks do make their own politics in full independence.
> 
> There is no one around being able to let Turkey regret anything.





Tell me something, which group do you work for?

And why lobby this site?

Further, if anyone wants some insight into the Turks, they can look at how they treated us when we needed them. And it had nothing to do with them feeling that going into Iraq was wrong. It was because we would not be letting them slaughter the Kurds as they have in the past.


----------



## ekrem

Lycurgus said:


> Tell me something, which group do you work for?
> 
> And why lobby this site?
> 
> Further, if anyone wants some insight into the Turks, they can look at how they treated us when we needed them. And it had nothing to do with them feeling that going into Iraq was wrong. It was because we would not be letting them slaughter the Kurds as they have in the past.



I am working for no "group", you?
You live in a small world if you think Turkey is defined by its decision not to allow US soldiers on its territory. Maybe you are confuseing the issue, Turkey is no US dog relying on US security guarantees or being dictated policies to follow. We brew our own beer and as Turkey gets more involved in regional politics, everyone (includeing the US) has to be cautious and must sleep over the issue of follow-up damage by provoking Turkish reaction. We have witnessed this between US and Turkey the last years and the outcome of this is that US decided not to push too much against Turkey. Despite Iraq war has been catastrophic for region and Iraq issue will be a conflict zone between regional powers even when US redeployed to a non-relevant presence in this region, Iraq issue is now being shaped by US in compliance to Turkish interests, and US gets word Turkey will not occupy North-Iraq in a large-scale. In practical this means US giving up policy of Turkish blockade into Iraqi realpolitics. US for itself does not need to follow policy of strengthening centralist Iraq, geo-political reality of Turkey ensures other regional powers of not following policy to divide Iraq up. Namely Iran. 


> Stratfor has received word that Turkish President Abdullah Gul recently reached a deal with U.S. President George W. Bush on the question of Kirkuk and Turkish military intervention in northern Iraq. In return for the shelving of U.S. plans to hold the Kirkuk referendum, Turkey allegedly has promised not to launch a large-scale military incursion into northern Iraq and instead will stick to cross-border shelling and occasional airstrikes.


Free Preview of Members-Only Content | Stratfor


Of factions within Iraq (Kurds) i do not even talk about, this geography is no musical request programme. Despite Iraq being a ressource power, Iraq as an entity has lost ability to keep up with other regional powers: Iran, Saudi-Arabia and Turkey. If you look at Iraq on a faction/sectarian/ethnic level each faction is being doomed to a vasall status. This may sound arrogant but it is the truth what Iraq awaits as an entity and on faction level.


----------



## ekrem

Turkish president is currently for a 4-day visit in Russia. 
There was important developments. 
Russia and Turkey agreed to switch their trade transactions to local currencies, Rubel and Turkish Lira. *
Turkey, Russia agree on TL-ruble area in bilateral trade*
World Bulletin [ Turkey, Russia agree on TL-ruble area in bilateral trade ]


Some deals were made worth 60 to 80 billion $:
*$US 60 billion energy contract signed in Moscow*
Russia and Turkey have signed a 15-year energy contract worth $US 60 billion. The agreements were reached while Turkish President Abdullah Gul is in Moscow for a four day official visit.
Russian Energy Minister Sergey Shmatko says the two countries have *also* almost agreed to build four reactors for a potential nuclear plant in Turkey, which could cost $US 18-20 billion. Each reactor would have 1200 MW of power. The project is planned to be finished within six years.
RT: News : $US 60 billion energy contract signed in Moscow


Then there was signed an strategic cooperation agreement:
*
Putin says Turkey 'priority' for Russian foreign policy*
http://en.rian.ru/world/20090213/120131597.html
*
Presidents of Russia, Turkey adopt strategic declaration*
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20090213/120126947.html
*
Russia, Turkey hail flourishing neighbourhood ties*
AFP: Russia, Turkey hail flourishing neighbourhood ties


----------



## Munin

ekrem said:


> Lycurgus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me something, which group do you work for?
> 
> And why lobby this site?
> 
> Further, if anyone wants some insight into the Turks, they can look at how they treated us when we needed them. And it had nothing to do with them feeling that going into Iraq was wrong. It was because we would not be letting them slaughter the Kurds as they have in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am working for no "group", you?
> You live in a small world if you think Turkey is defined by its decision not to allow US soldiers on its territory. Maybe you are confuseing the issue, Turkey is no US dog relying on US security guarantees or being dictated policies to follow. We brew our own beer and as Turkey gets more involved in regional politics, everyone (includeing the US) has to be cautious and must sleep over the issue of follow-up damage by provoking Turkish reaction. We have witnessed this between US and Turkey the last years and the outcome of this is that US decided not to push too much against Turkey. Despite Iraq war has been catastrophic for region and Iraq issue will be a conflict zone between regional powers even when US redeployed to a non-relevant presence in this region, Iraq issue is now being shaped by US in compliance to Turkish interests, and US gets word Turkey will not occupy North-Iraq in a large-scale. In practical this means US giving up policy of Turkish blockade into Iraqi realpolitics. US for itself does not need to follow policy of strengthening centralist Iraq, geo-political reality of Turkey ensures other regional powers of not following policy to divide Iraq up. Namely Iran.
> 
> 
> 
> Stratfor has received word that Turkish President Abdullah Gul recently reached a deal with U.S. President George W. Bush on the question of Kirkuk and Turkish military intervention in northern Iraq. In return for the shelving of U.S. plans to hold the Kirkuk referendum, Turkey allegedly has promised not to launch a large-scale military incursion into northern Iraq and instead will stick to cross-border shelling and occasional airstrikes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Free Preview of Members-Only Content | Stratfor
> 
> 
> Of factions within Iraq (Kurds) i do not even talk about, this geography is no musical request programme. Despite Iraq being a ressource power, Iraq as an entity has lost ability to keep up with other regional powers: Iran, Saudi-Arabia and Turkey. If you look at Iraq on a faction/sectarian/ethnic level each faction is being doomed to a vasall status. This may sound arrogant but it is the truth what Iraq awaits as an entity and on faction level.
Click to expand...


              

Turkish people are very, very pride about their country,  ekrem here is a good example of it.


A bit like americans that have so much patriotism, so glad to put an american flag everywhere it is possible : this site is a good example of it 



I find it also a confusing country: is it muslim? or is it secular?



ekrem said:


> We brew our own beer


 Muslims do not drink alcohol.


----------



## Shogun

Lycurgus said:


> ekrem said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Turkey is going to regret anything or change anything this motivation will come from inside Turkey. Off course no nation is really fully independent in this globalized world, but leaving aside globalization with shocks unable to prevent from being felt also in Turkey, Turks do make their own politics in full independence.
> 
> There is no one around being able to let Turkey regret anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me something, which group do you work for?
> 
> And why lobby this site?
> 
> Further, if anyone wants some insight into the Turks, they can look at how they treated us when we needed them. And it had nothing to do with them feeling that going into Iraq was wrong. It was because we would not be letting them slaughter the Kurds as they have in the past.
Click to expand...


Gosh, i don't recall you asking toomuchtime_ that same question.. geee, the double standard is amazing.  A turk posting about his muslim nation gets flak while the standard issue retinue of zionist jews get nothing less than a sloppy blowjob. SAY IT AINT SO!


----------



## ekrem

ekrem said:


> Turkish president is currently for a 4-day visit in Russia.
> There was important developments.
> Russia and Turkey agreed to switch their trade transactions to local currencies, Rubel and Turkish Lira. *
> Turkey, Russia agree on TL-ruble area in bilateral trade*
> World Bulletin [ Turkey, Russia agree on TL-ruble area in bilateral trade ]
> 
> 
> Some deals were made worth 60 to 80 billion $:
> *$US 60 billion energy contract signed in Moscow*
> Russia and Turkey have signed a 15-year energy contract worth $US 60 billion. The agreements were reached while Turkish President Abdullah Gul is in Moscow for a four day official visit.
> Russian Energy Minister Sergey Shmatko says the two countries have *also* almost agreed to build four reactors for a potential nuclear plant in Turkey, which could cost $US 18-20 billion. Each reactor would have 1200 MW of power. The project is planned to be finished within six years.
> RT: News : $US 60 billion energy contract signed in Moscow
> 
> 
> Then there was signed an strategic cooperation agreement:
> *
> Putin says Turkey 'priority' for Russian foreign policy*
> RIA Novosti - World - Putin says Turkey 'priority' for Russian foreign policy
> *
> Presidents of Russia, Turkey adopt strategic declaration*
> RIA Novosti - Russia - Presidents of Russia, Turkey adopt strategic declaration
> *
> Russia, Turkey hail flourishing neighbourhood ties*
> AFP: Russia, Turkey hail flourishing neighbourhood ties





Turkey will build a total of 3 nuclear power plants. The nuclear power plants will be built and operated by private sector. The first tender to build the first nuclear power plant on the south coast of Turkey in Akkuyu was  won by a Russian-Turkish consortium. The consortium consists of a Russian energy distributor, a Turkish energy distributor and the Russian state company for nuclear technology. 

The consortium offered to build the VVER-1200 type reactor. That reactor is the newest developed reactor Russia has to offer. The reactor itself is not being installed in Russia, yet. 
But the Russian government has authorized to build 6 nuclear reactors on VVER-1200 technology in Russia between 2011-2015:
Russian government approved a General plan of power industry objects placement till 2020

The Nuclear power plant in Akkuyu has a design of 4 * 1.200 MW reactors and has a project value of 18 to 20 Billion $. 
RT: News : $US 60 billion energy contract signed in Moscow

The next tender will be for the nuclear power plant on the north coast in Turkey in Sinop.
Where the 3rd nuclear power plant will be built is not decided, yet, but press reports indicate, that in Sinop will be built also the 3rd nuclear power plant.

All these nuclear power plants will be built and operated by the private sector, no state involvement. The state itself currently develops an indigenious reactor technology. The aim is to produce a 100 MW reactor by 2015. The project is financed with 3 billion TL (current exchange rate = 1,8 billion $) and finace was approved by government in 2007:
Nükleer için TAEKe 3 milyar YTL kaynak

The first round of nuclear power plants is private company related. In the first round there will be built 3 nuclear power plants with foreign technology. The 3 nuclear power plants will produce about 14.000 to 15.000 MW. So each plant is designed containing several reactors.


----------



## roomy

ekrem said:


> ekrem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Turkish president is currently for a 4-day visit in Russia.
> There was important developments.
> Russia and Turkey agreed to switch their trade transactions to local currencies, Rubel and Turkish Lira. *
> Turkey, Russia agree on TL-ruble area in bilateral trade*
> World Bulletin [ Turkey, Russia agree on TL-ruble area in bilateral trade ]
> 
> 
> Some deals were made worth 60 to 80 billion $:
> *$US 60 billion energy contract signed in Moscow*
> Russia and Turkey have signed a 15-year energy contract worth $US 60 billion. The agreements were reached while Turkish President Abdullah Gul is in Moscow for a four day official visit.
> Russian Energy Minister Sergey Shmatko says the two countries have *also* almost agreed to build four reactors for a potential nuclear plant in Turkey, which could cost $US 18-20 billion. Each reactor would have 1200 MW of power. The project is planned to be finished within six years.
> RT: News : $US 60 billion energy contract signed in Moscow
> 
> 
> Then there was signed an strategic cooperation agreement:
> *
> Putin says Turkey 'priority' for Russian foreign policy*
> RIA Novosti - World - Putin says Turkey 'priority' for Russian foreign policy
> *
> Presidents of Russia, Turkey adopt strategic declaration*
> RIA Novosti - Russia - Presidents of Russia, Turkey adopt strategic declaration
> *
> Russia, Turkey hail flourishing neighbourhood ties*
> AFP: Russia, Turkey hail flourishing neighbourhood ties
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey will build a total of 3 nuclear power plants. The nuclear power plants will be built and operated by private sector. The first tender to build the first nuclear power plant on the south coast of Turkey in Akkuyu was  won by a Russian-Turkish consortium. The consortium consists of a Russian energy distributor, a Turkish energy distributor and the Russian state company for nuclear technology.
> 
> The consortium offered to build the VVER-1200 type reactor. That reactor is the newest developed reactor Russia has to offer. The reactor itself is not being installed in Russia, yet.
> But the Russian government has authorized to build 6 nuclear reactors on VVER-1200 technology in Russia between 2011-2015:
> Russian government approved a General plan of power industry objects placement till 2020
> 
> The Nuclear power plant in Akkuyu has a design of 4 * 1.200 MW reactors and has a project value of 18 to 20 Billion $.
> RT: News : $US 60 billion energy contract signed in Moscow
> 
> The next tender will be for the nuclear power plant on the north coast in Turkey in Sinop.
> Where the 3rd nuclear power plant will be built is not decided, yet, but press reports indicate, that in Sinop will be built also the 3rd nuclear power plant.
> 
> All these nuclear power plants will be built and operated by the private sector, no state involvement. The state itself currently develops an indigenious reactor technology. The aim is to produce a 100 MW reactor by 2015. The project is financed with 3 billion TL (current exchange rate = 1,8 billion $) and finace was approved by government in 2007:
> Nükleer için TAEKe 3 milyar YTL kaynak
> 
> The first round of nuclear power plants is private company related. In the first round there will be built 3 nuclear power plants with foreign technology. The 3 nuclear power plants will produce about 14.000 to 15.000 MW. So each plant is designed containing several reactors.
Click to expand...



Mark my words, it will end in disaster.


----------



## Munin

roomy said:


> ekrem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ekrem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Turkish president is currently for a 4-day visit in Russia.
> There was important developments.
> Russia and Turkey agreed to switch their trade transactions to local currencies, Rubel and Turkish Lira. *
> Turkey, Russia agree on TL-ruble area in bilateral trade*
> World Bulletin [ Turkey, Russia agree on TL-ruble area in bilateral trade ]
> 
> 
> Some deals were made worth 60 to 80 billion $:
> *$US 60 billion energy contract signed in Moscow*
> Russia and Turkey have signed a 15-year energy contract worth $US 60 billion. The agreements were reached while Turkish President Abdullah Gul is in Moscow for a four day official visit.
> Russian Energy Minister Sergey Shmatko says the two countries have *also* almost agreed to build four reactors for a potential nuclear plant in Turkey, which could cost $US 18-20 billion. Each reactor would have 1200 MW of power. The project is planned to be finished within six years.
> RT: News : $US 60 billion energy contract signed in Moscow
> 
> 
> Then there was signed an strategic cooperation agreement:
> *
> Putin says Turkey 'priority' for Russian foreign policy*
> RIA Novosti - World - Putin says Turkey 'priority' for Russian foreign policy
> *
> Presidents of Russia, Turkey adopt strategic declaration*
> RIA Novosti - Russia - Presidents of Russia, Turkey adopt strategic declaration
> *
> Russia, Turkey hail flourishing neighbourhood ties*
> AFP: Russia, Turkey hail flourishing neighbourhood ties
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey will build a total of 3 nuclear power plants. The nuclear power plants will be built and operated by private sector. The first tender to build the first nuclear power plant on the south coast of Turkey in Akkuyu was  won by a Russian-Turkish consortium. The consortium consists of a Russian energy distributor, a Turkish energy distributor and the Russian state company for nuclear technology.
> 
> The consortium offered to build the VVER-1200 type reactor. That reactor is the newest developed reactor Russia has to offer. The reactor itself is not being installed in Russia, yet.
> But the Russian government has authorized to build 6 nuclear reactors on VVER-1200 technology in Russia between 2011-2015:
> Russian government approved a General plan of power industry objects placement till 2020
> 
> The Nuclear power plant in Akkuyu has a design of 4 * 1.200 MW reactors and has a project value of 18 to 20 Billion $.
> RT: News : $US 60 billion energy contract signed in Moscow
> 
> The next tender will be for the nuclear power plant on the north coast in Turkey in Sinop.
> Where the 3rd nuclear power plant will be built is not decided, yet, but press reports indicate, that in Sinop will be built also the 3rd nuclear power plant.
> 
> All these nuclear power plants will be built and operated by the private sector, no state involvement. The state itself currently develops an indigenious reactor technology. The aim is to produce a 100 MW reactor by 2015. The project is financed with 3 billion TL (current exchange rate = 1,8 billion $) and finace was approved by government in 2007:
> Nükleer için TAEK&#8217;e 3 milyar YTL kaynak
> 
> The first round of nuclear power plants is private company related. In the first round there will be built 3 nuclear power plants with foreign technology. The 3 nuclear power plants will produce about 14.000 to 15.000 MW. So each plant is designed containing several reactors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Mark my words, it will end in disaster.
Click to expand...



Russia and Nuclear. I always thought that you should keep those 2 words as far away from each other as possible  .


----------



## Lycurgus

Shogun said:


> Lycurgus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ekrem said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Turkey is going to regret anything or change anything this motivation will come from inside Turkey. Off course no nation is really fully independent in this globalized world, but leaving aside globalization with shocks unable to prevent from being felt also in Turkey, Turks do make their own politics in full independence.
> 
> There is no one around being able to let Turkey regret anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me something, which group do you work for?
> 
> And why lobby this site?
> 
> Further, if anyone wants some insight into the Turks, they can look at how they treated us when we needed them. And it had nothing to do with them feeling that going into Iraq was wrong. It was because we would not be letting them slaughter the Kurds as they have in the past.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gosh, i don't recall you asking toomuchtime_ that same question.. geee, the double standard is amazing.  A turk posting about his muslim nation gets flak while the standard issue retinue of zionist jews get nothing less than a sloppy blowjob. SAY IT AINT SO!
Click to expand...



*My complaints with Turkey are more than fair. Further wanting to know which propaganda group a person represents is a fair question. since I am not a Zionist, I don't understand your last comments. I stated fact and asked fair question, that is not flack! Grow up! *


----------



## Lycurgus

> I am working for no "group", you?
> You live in a small world if you think Turkey is defined by its decision not to allow US soldiers on its territory. Maybe you are confuseing the issue, Turkey is no US dog relying on US security guarantees or being dictated policies to follow. We brew our own beer and as Turkey gets more involved in regional politics, everyone (includeing the US) has to be cautious and must sleep over the issue of follow-up damage by provoking Turkish reaction. We have witnessed this between US and Turkey the last years and the outcome of this is that US decided not to push too much against Turkey. Despite Iraq war has been catastrophic for region and Iraq issue will be a conflict zone between regional powers even when US redeployed to a non-relevant presence in this region, Iraq issue is now being shaped by US in compliance to Turkish interests, and US gets word Turkey will not occupy North-Iraq in a large-scale. In practical this means US giving up policy of Turkish blockade into Iraqi realpolitics. US for itself does not need to follow policy of strengthening centralist Iraq, geo-political reality of Turkey ensures other regional powers of not following policy to divide Iraq up. Namely Iran.



I only speak for myself. Thank you for your response, it is very hum, Turkish and expected. Further it supports my worries about the US giving too much in that direction, it will come back to bite us. No one asked you to be their dogs, but, they did expect a fair agreement considering what has been done for Turkey. Seems you forgot who aided in all of that industry building.  Washington needs to learn from this.


----------



## ekrem

Lycurgus said:


> I am working for no "group", you?
> You live in a small world if you think Turkey is defined by its decision not to allow US soldiers on its territory. Maybe you are confuseing the issue, Turkey is no US dog relying on US security guarantees or being dictated policies to follow. We brew our own beer and as Turkey gets more involved in regional politics, everyone (includeing the US) has to be cautious and must sleep over the issue of follow-up damage by provoking Turkish reaction. We have witnessed this between US and Turkey the last years and the outcome of this is that US decided not to push too much against Turkey. Despite Iraq war has been catastrophic for region and Iraq issue will be a conflict zone between regional powers even when US redeployed to a non-relevant presence in this region, Iraq issue is now being shaped by US in compliance to Turkish interests, and US gets word Turkey will not occupy North-Iraq in a large-scale. In practical this means US giving up policy of Turkish blockade into Iraqi realpolitics. US for itself does not need to follow policy of strengthening centralist Iraq, geo-political reality of Turkey ensures other regional powers of not following policy to divide Iraq up. Namely Iran.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only speak for myself. Thank you for your response, it is very hum, Turkish and expected. Further it supports my worries about the US giving too much in that direction, it will come back to bite us. No one asked you to be their dogs, but, they did expect a fair agreement considering what has been done for Turkey. Seems you forgot who aided in all of that industry building.  Washington needs to learn from this.
Click to expand...


I am expectant in hearing your theories of how USA did build-up Turkish industry.


----------



## Lycurgus

*History is a good teacher. Washington would do good to study Turkish history to avoid a royal screwing. I wouldn't want them in a foxhole with me! *


----------



## GHook93

The Ottoman Empire is a big reason for the mess in the middle east! Of course you Muslim are quick to point the finger at everyone but yourselves. Turkey a huge culprit in the chaos. Just as you were responsible for the sole genocide during WW I!


----------



## Shogun

Lycurgus said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lycurgus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me something, which group do you work for?
> 
> And why lobby this site?
> 
> Further, if anyone wants some insight into the Turks, they can look at how they treated us when we needed them. And it had nothing to do with them feeling that going into Iraq was wrong. It was because we would not be letting them slaughter the Kurds as they have in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gosh, i don't recall you asking toomuchtime_ that same question.. geee, the double standard is amazing.  A turk posting about his muslim nation gets flak while the standard issue retinue of zionist jews get nothing less than a sloppy blowjob. SAY IT AINT SO!
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *My complaints with Turkey are more than fair. Further wanting to know which propaganda group a person represents is a fair question. since I am not a Zionist, I don't understand your last comments. I stated fact and asked fair question, that is not flack! Grow up! *
Click to expand...


Geee. someone riding a double standard who thinks their one sided approach is FAIR?!?!?!

SAY.

IT.

AINT.

SO!


----------



## Lycurgus

Armenian National Institute


----------



## Lycurgus

Turkish Crimes against Humanity


----------



## Lycurgus

TURKISH CRIMES


----------



## Lycurgus

Turkey's War Crimes



by Kani Xulam

January 28, 1996



Just a few weeks ago, "The European", a weekly newspaper published in London, England, had a picture with a warning on its front page. It showed a Turkish soldier holding the decapitated heads of two Kurds. The caption read: "Pictures that will shock the world."



A closer look at the pictures and the story which accompanies them reveals that these photographs depict the triumph of five Turkish soldiers over the dead bodies of four Kurdish rebels. In one picture, two of the naked Kurds are headless, one lying on his back and the other on his stomach. The first has a rope tied to his ankles and the second has a rope tied around his trunk, betraying the not uncommon practice of dragging dead bodies behind armored vehicles in Turkey's southeast. Historians tell us that the warriors of Ghengis Khan did the same to their victims, only with horses rather than army vehicles.



In another picture, a soldier in his twenties is holding the two severed heads while smiling at the camera and his comrade in the background is smirking. There are other pictures and other depravities. Suffice it to note that one is uglier than the other and each alone is enough to make Kurds and their friends sick for days.



For days now, I have been staring at these pictures. I have been telling myself: "One of the decapitated heads is yours." It is an eerie feeling. Just stop and think of it: somebody staring at you holding your decapitated head. I have made a point of looking at the reactions of Kurds who confront these pictures for the first time. They feel utterly numb. Think of a people without faith, without love, without hope and with lots of pain. That is what the Kurds of Turkey have become.



These pictures and the heinous crimes they show are not aberrations. These scenes are repeated often in southeastern Turkey, the historical land of the Kurds. Armed with East German rifles, West German armored vehicles and sophisticated American weapons, Turkish soldiers are creating the largest moonscape on the face the earth, raining death and destruction on the Kurds and their land. House Concurrent Resolution 136 of the 104th Congress notes that more than 2,650 Kurdish villages have been destroyed in this most recent Turkish assault on the Kurds.



The French philosopher Voltaire wrote that the worst kind of death is to be obscurely hanged. The slaughter of the Turkish Kurds is a good example of that. Ask the Kurds for the name of a people that supports their cause for civil rights and there is not an answer.



In Turkey, where the majority of an estimated 25 to 30 million Kurds live, resistance is costly; as the pictures show, even your dead body is not immune from abuse and degradation. Public office is costly, too, as is proven by the case of 13 duly elected Kurdish deputies who lost their seats in the Turkish Parliament. Four were sentenced to 15 years in prison for advocating the legitimate rights of their people.



Ankara has tried everything in its power to discourage the Kurds from demanding their rights. It has tried force. Nothing has come of it. It has tried the "village guard" system in which poor Kurds are armed to teeth and inculcated with hatred for their kin. The upshot has been a disaster: Kurds killing Kurds to the chagrin of their friends. It has tried religion, the opium of masses in the words of Karl Marx, and again the policy has not worked. But something quite unexpected has taken root in Turkey because of the heavy emphasis on religion.



The Islamic Welfare Party scored the highest number of votes in Turkey's latest parliamentary elections. This was the result of an unscrupulous campaign by Turkey's leaders, first to undermine the rising tide of Kurdish national consciousness by inculcating a universalistic Islamic ideology which they considered less dangerous than the Kurds, second by using the rising tide of Islamic threat in order to manipulate opinions in the European Union and the United States so as to secure closer military and economic ties.



The late Egyptian President Anwar Sadat encouraged Islamic fundamentalist organizations like the Muslim Brotherhood in order to use them against alienated Egyptian youth who were increasingly turning to Marxism. But he himself became the victim of the forces to which he gave a free reign. Members of the Muslim Brotherhood within the Egyptian military gunned him down.



Maybe there is something called poetic justice in the world. Maybe we Kurds will get our civil rights after Turkey travels the same road taken by Iran. Maybe then the State Department will recognize our sacrifices of pain and blood and let us have our due.


----------



## ekrem

*Black Sea oil to meet turkeys needs for 40 yrs*
The Black Sea has a massive amount of oil and natural gas resources, comparable to those of the Caspian Sea -- enough to meet Turkey's needs for the coming 40 years, the general manager of Turkey's state-owned oil exploration and drilling company has said. 
Turkish Petroleum Corporation (TPAO) General Manager Mehmet Uysal noted that estimates based on the findings of sonar-equipped oil exploration ships show that there are at least 10 billion barrels of oil reserves beneath the Black Sea.

In addition to this, some 1.5 trillion cubic meters of gas lie beneath the sea, he said, and added that the US's Exxon Mobil and Brazil's Petrobras exploring for oil in the region. Uysal further underlined that these resources will help Turkey slash its costs and that it plans to pay $600 billion for the import of crude oil in the next 10 years.
Black Sea oil to meet turkeyâs needs for 40 yrs


----------



## ekrem

ekrem said:


> *Black Sea oil to meet turkeys needs for 40 yrs*
> The Black Sea has a massive amount of oil and natural gas resources, comparable to those of the Caspian Sea -- enough to meet Turkey's needs for the coming 40 years, the general manager of Turkey's state-owned oil exploration and drilling company has said.
> Turkish Petroleum Corporation (TPAO) General Manager Mehmet Uysal noted that estimates based on the findings of sonar-equipped oil exploration ships show that there are at least 10 billion barrels of oil reserves beneath the Black Sea.
> 
> In addition to this, some 1.5 trillion cubic meters of gas lie beneath the sea, he said, and added that the US's Exxon Mobil and Brazil's Petrobras exploring for oil in the region. Uysal further underlined that these resources will help Turkey slash its costs and that it plans to pay $600 billion for the import of crude oil in the next 10 years.
> Black Sea oil to meet turkeyâs needs for 40 yrs



I want to deepen into the subject: 
Off course total amount of reserves are important, but more important is at which rate you can exploit the ressources (barrel / day). 

Petrobras which is the most specialized Off-Shore driller in the world expects to produce 100.000 barrels from its share of the territorial block by 2020.
Petrobras stalls US Gulf operations - Upstreamonline
That alone is more then the inland consumption of Turkey.

Also Turkey will drill in another block in the Black Sea with Chevron
Chevron 'nears Turkish E&P deal' - Upstreamonline

And with ExxonMobil
TPAO seals exploration deals - Upstreamonline

We are also negotiating with German RWE which has a revenue of 48 billion 
RWE AG - Annual Report 2008 - Consolidated Financial Statements
Karadenizde Chevron ve RWE de petrol arayacak / Ekonomi / Radikal Ýnternet

These are all big players in Oil business with multi-billion dollar revenues and they surely would not invest in Black Sea drilling if they would not expect a return.







The green marked areas are the blocks where Turkey will drill together with Petrobras. The yellow marked areas will be the areas where Turkey will drill together with Exxon and Chevron. Also, which i did not mentioned above a Texan Oil company EOG Group also got a licence to drill with Turkey. But EOG Group is a smaller company with just 3,9 billion $ turnover
100 Best Companies to Work For 2008: EOG Resources snapshot | FORTUNE
TPAO seals exploration deals - Upstreamonline

How the yellow marked areas will be shared i can not say at this point, yet. In nearest future also other areas of Black Sea will be put into "auction"/farm-out.

In a not too far distant future (a couple of years) Turkey will be self-sustaining in Oil and Natural Gas. This will kick off a total new industry-sector for Turkey generating growth. Turkish state company TPAO, which is drilling in Joint-Ventures with above mentioned companies will generate much money for the Turkish state. Also Turkish state has royality shares from the production of Chevron, Exxon etc. and off course tax income from the production, revenues and sales.

Also Turkey will not any more have to pay money for its ressources to abroad, but the money will stay in Turkey. The money will be circulated in Turkey. Only in the next 10 years Turkey would have to pay 600 billion $ for oil import
Black Sea oil to meet turkeyâs needs for 40 yrs[/quote]
Natural Gas is not calculated in this. When this money stays in Turkish Economy it is good for Turkey.

We are already the world's 15th largest economy. Our economy is not based on ressources. If you add the whole coming ressource-sector into this calculation Turkey will do much better in future. The Turkish state budget will then get also income from ressources to spent, which it currently does not have. More money for everything from infrastructural development over education to army.


*Turkish Naval Forces are planning to establish a new military base in the country's Black Sea province of Trabzon.*
The planned military base will be the second on the countrys Black Sea coast.
Turkey planning to open a new military base in the Black Sea coast


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## ekrem

*Undeterred by Financial Crisis, Turkish Defense Companies Plan to Increase Domestic Arms Production*

It is estimated that Turkey has been spending about $5 billion for arms per year and according to a report released by the country's main arms procurement agency, has set a goal to increase the share of the arms produced domestically to 58 percent of the production from 107 military procurement projects. Direct purchases are to account for 16 percent, production with a consortium 2 percent, and joint production 24 percent. 
single - The Jamestown Foundation[tt_news]=34568&tx_ttnews[backPid]=390&cHash=33becc173a


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## ekrem

These days Stratfor founder George Friedman is in Turkey and participates in several platforms. 



> Only one-fifth of Turkey&#8217;s population is non-Turkish, while roughly half of Iran is non-Persian. Iran requires a large army simply to maintain rule at home, while Turkey has the relative freedom to expend resources on power projection tools such as an air force and navy. The difference shines through in their respective economies as well. *Despite having nearly identical populations in terms of size, Iran&#8217;s economy is only two-fifths the size of Turkey&#8217;s*. Even in the battle of ideologies, Turkey retains the advantage. The Arab majority in the region prefer Turkey &#8212; a fellow Sunni power &#8212; to take the lead in managing regional affairs, whereas Shiite Persian Iran is the historical rival of the Arab world.


Free Article for Non-Members | Stratfor

*US Expert Friedmann: Turkey will 'rule' former Ottoman territories by 2040 *
... since Friedman is the manager of one of the most important U.S. strategic research centers "Stratfor", and is close to the Pentagon. He claims that the process has already begun in regional Islamic countries, where Turkey's influence is constantly rising.
Friedman assesses that Turkey is characterized by two things - *"live" economy and strong army*. According to him, Turkey has the 17th largest global economy, whereas it will move *in the top 10 by 2020*.
MINA Breaking News - US Expert: Turkey will 'rule' former Ottoman territories by 2040


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## ekrem

*Clinton in Turkey speaks of 'friend for all times' - 2nd Update *
Clinton in Turkey speaks of 'friend for all times' - 2nd Update : Middle East World

*Obama to visit Turkey, first trip to Muslim nation*
Obama to visit Turkey, first trip to Muslim nation | Politics | Reuters

Obama's visit will be his sixth visit to a foreign country after Canada, Britain, France, Germany and the Czech Republic.
The Czechs currently have the EU presidency for 6 months, so it is not unusual Obama visiting there.
I think this shows the importance the new US-Administration in the relations with Turkey.


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## ekrem

As it stands now there is only a small possibility, that Obama will choose Turkey for his "Islam-Relations" speech which is expected from him to be spoken in an Islamic country. Newspapers report here that political Ankara does also not want Obama holding his "Islam"-speech over here. Actually this is a good sign, because the visit of Obama will not be made due to this speech. He can visit another neighbouring country just for the sake of speaking to the "Islamic World".

If he would have chosen Turkey for his speech it would be perceived with a bitter conspiracy aftertaste as if the U.S. had chosen Turkey to be leader of the Islamic world in the form of "Hey, look bad guys this is the good guy". In such a leadership position Turkey is growing anyway whether USA supports or disklikes does not matter, we have no gift to take from anyone, we grow into that position by power, determination and self-confidence.

The visit of Obama which will be likely on 6th or 7th March equaling to the 77th day Obama in office will be made as damage controll from Bush era. This signals the determination of the Obama administration to repair the relations with Turkey. And off course US wants not to repair the relations with Turkey because US has gone from Saulus to Paulus with Obama, but US has no other option. USA can not make any adventures around here without Turkey, contrary thinking circles in USA will crash the plane as Bush did.

Some circles in the US wanted to play hardball with Turkey between the period 2003-2007.  This pictured itself in USA blocking Turkish power projection into Iraq, looking away from PKK and making Iraq a No-Go zone for Turkey and putting Armenian resolutions in your congress. When Turkey threatened to play hardball back and called its ambassador from Washington home, Bush who logically did not like Turkey and her current leaders because Turkish stance on Bush adventures was primarily the cause of Bush failure around here as Rumfsfeld said several times had no option to come to terms with Turkey. Some quotes from that period: 


> "... Some in Congress wanted to play hardball. I can assure you that Turkey knows how to play hardball," Egemen Bagis, ruling AK Party deputy chairman and Erdogan's foreign policy adviser, told reporters in Washington"


Turkey says ready to face world criticism over Iraq | Reuters

Now there is not coming anymore beep-beeps from Barzani, Kirkuk stays Iraqi, North-Iraqi airspace is de-facto Turkish airspace, US satellites cruise orbit producing intelligence for Turkish general staff and Bush himself making CIA giving Turkey informations it does not even give UK or Germany.
Kurden-Konflikt: Bush verspricht Erdogan Zugriff auf CIA-Daten - Nachrichten Politik - WELT ONLINE
Google Translation http://www.welt.de/politik/article1337019/Bush_verspricht_Erdogan_Zugriff_auf_CIA_Daten.html

This all in an environment where the personal interactions by state leaders do also count in diplomacy between states and we can write down that the "personal connection" between the US government and Turkish government was icy. Would Turkey have cooperated with Bush adventurer Bush would not have been remembered as plane crasher but as "Democracy Lighthouse Builder of Bagdad". Sounds arrogant but Turkish support would have meant a sure enough stabilizing factor for US plane under Bush pilot.

Obama and Biden assured Armenian voters and "Armenian genocide faking mafia"-Lobies within USA to recognize this mafia produced faking. Off course during his presidential campaign Obama did not have access to state knowledge. Now Obama has access to this state knowledge and diplomacy canals are open for him, welcome in the reality Mr. Obama, you are facing the Turkish hardball player with its anatomically and sports meant steel balls. 
Such a joy to see in the faces of people like "Lycurgus" from above which made some beep-beeps in that direction.

As i already said, US wants not to leave behind Bush era with Turkey because Obama-America is the do-gooder for just the sake of doing good, but Realpolitik paves the way for "Armenian Genocide"-Promisser Obama.
Realpolitik from US view gives the need 
- for Turkey cooperating in the redeployment of US-Forces from Iraq 
- growing into regional vacuum filler not against US interests
- not taking steps making life of Israel harder
- more Turkish soldiers for Afghanistan
- widening Incirlik airbase after Kyrgiszistan F*U.
- reverting cooperation with Iran
- distributing Turkish capacities to stop Iranian outreach in non-Iran Middle-East which is within Turkish reach
- reverting cooperation with Russia and join pressuring campaign against Russia, as Turkey is the NATO-country with most tools to pressure Russia


> Turkey is a crucial link in the Wests pressure campaign against Russia. (...) But the Turks have little interest (...)  to be pushed by the United States into a potential conflict  naval or otherwise  with the Russians. (...) But the Russians are playing a risky game. As much as Turkey wants this conflict to go away, it still has cards to play  *far more than any other NATO member*  if it is pushed too hard.


Free Article for Non-Members | STRATFOR


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## ekrem

The official date of Obama visit has been announced.
It will be a 2-day visit. On 6th April he will hold talks in Ankara and on 7th April he will move on to Istanbul. 
Obama'nýn Türkiye programý belli oldu - Hürriyet

It is likely that Hillary Clinton will aslo come again with Obama this time.


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## DavidS

I was Hungary so I ate Turkey.


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## ekrem

DavidS said:


> I was Hungary so I ate Turkey.



You are so funny.
United States public debt - Turkish Foreign Ownership - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## ekrem

Regarding Obama's visit.

Security personel of Obama was already in Ankara for coordination of his visit. Next week will come political coordinators.

Obama wants to attend a parliamentary session of Turkish Parliament and speak to Turkish Nation.
Due to local elections in Turkey parliament is currently in holiday, but Parliament speaker Köksal Toptan says he will extraordinately call parliamentarians into parliament for session.
He also will seperately join a TV show later in Turkish TV talking also there to Turkish Nation.

The next day Obama will travel to Istanbul and attend the UN Alliance of Civilization meeting which is led by Spain and Turkey, so Zapatero and Erdogan will also be there.
Then Obama will visit Orthodox Patriarchate Bartholemeus and then make a cultural visit through historical Istanbul travelling to Aya Sofya Mosque/Museum or Sultanahmet Mosque or both.
It is being said that Obama explicitely does want contact on streets with Istanbul residents.
Obama, halkla buluÅ&#376;acak / Siyaset / Milliyet Ä°nternet


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## morpheus

ekrem, with all due respect, what is the point of all this?


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