# $90 BILLION Dollars A Year Spent On Welfare For Illegal Aliens!



## Sovereignty

$90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.


CNN.com - Transcripts

ROBERT RECTOR, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: 

"Well, assuming that we have about 11 million immigrants in the U.S., the net cost or the total cost of services and benefits provided to them, education, welfare, general social services would be about $90 billion a year, and they would pay very little in taxes. It's important to remember that at least half of illegal immigrants are high school dropouts."


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## xsited1

So that's what the Hispanic vote costs.  I never knew until now.


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## Sovereignty

Oh, they cost more than that!  This link expired but the article was a good one.  I suppose you have to pay to get it now.

Washington Times:

In 2007, Legal and illegal aliens, cost the federal government more than $346 Billion dollars and the U.S. taxpayers paid more than $9,000. for each immigrant in the country!

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps...le?AID=/20080409/NATION/341902874/1002/NATION


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## sealybobo

That's 9 months in Iraq.


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## Sovereignty

Both are wrong.


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## sealybobo

xsited1 said:


> So that's what the Hispanic vote costs.  I never knew until now.



No shit. 

The Dems don't do anything about illegals because they are flaming liberals and the GOP won't fix the problem because their base are the people hiring illegals.


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## Sovereignty

It makes you wonder when are the American people going to wake up and STOP letting a handful of politicians run our country into the ground.  We need to VOTE THE BUMS OUT, ALL OF THEM, NO EXCEPTIONS!

Either that OR get ready to be demoted to 3rd World Status.


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## Andrew2382

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year. FAIR: Immigration and Welfare 

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. http://www.cisorg/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html 

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens. http://www.cisorg/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html 

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html 

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies. CNN.com - Transcripts 

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. CNN.com - Transcripts 

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens. CNN.com - Transcripts 

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare and Social Services by the American taxpayers. http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html 

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens. http://transcripts..cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html 

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two-and-a-half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US. CNN.com - Transcripts 

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border. Homeland Security Report. http://tinyurl.com/t9sht 

12 The National Policy Institute, "estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period."http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf  

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin. Wooldridge - How Much Further Into This Nightmare? 

14. "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States". http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml 


Total cost is a whooping... $338.3 BILLION A YEAR!!! 

We spend almost triple on illegal aliens then we do on Iraq


Also

Illegal Aliens Kill More Americans Than Iraq War

Illegal Aliens Kill More Americans Than Iraq War

By The Editors

As noted in Illegal Alien Crime Wave in Full Swing, in April 2005, the GAO released a report on a study of 55,322 illegal aliens incarcerated in federal, state, and local facilities during 2003.  It found the following: 

Of the 55,322 illegal aliens studied, researchers found that they were arrested a total of 459,614 times, averaging about 8 arrests per illegal alien.

·  They were arrested for a total of about 700,000 criminal offenses, averaging about 13 offenses per illegal alien. 

·   49% had previously been convicted of a felony, 20% of a drug offense; 18% a violent offense, and 11%, other felony offenses.

·   81% of the arrests occurred after 1990

·   56% of those charged with a reentry offense had previously been convicted on at least 5 prior occasions.  

·   Defendants charged with unlawful reentry had the most extensive criminal histories.  90% had been previously arrested.  Of those with a prior arrest, 50% had been arrested for violent or drug-related felonies.

All of these crimes would have never happened, i.e. they were preventable, has we had a serious program of deportation of the illegal aliens already here and proper border security to prevent both entry and re-entry.

In reviewing those numbers, note that the study sampled only about 21% of the incarcerated illegal aliens.  To get the full extent of the collateral damage, we need to apply the average number of offenses across all 267,000 currently incarcerated illegal alien criminals.  Doing so results in 1,288,619 crimes!


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## Sovereignty

It's like paying CHILD SUPPORT for illegal aliens.  We pay and the big business uses them as cheap labor sometime not even paying them minimum wage.  When they get hurt they rush to the Emergency Rooms.  The illegal aliens also use Emergency Rooms as Primary Health Care and as Birthing Centers.  So, we can pay some more for their off spring and health needs.

This UNFAIR to the American Taxpayers but our government and big business don't care.  So, why should we care about them?


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## Andrew2382

dont qworry...obama will give them all citizenship once he is elected


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## Mad Scientist

Andrew2382 said:


> dont qworry...obama will give them all citizenship once he is elected


Yeah, if we make them all citizens then we won't have to pay them any benefits!


Oh, wait a minute...


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## GigiBowman

I am a substitute teacher in my local High School.  We have a large Illegal Immigrant problem in our town....you know how it is....every morning there's hundreds of guys stanging on a particular corner...all of them hoping the next car that drives by will pull over and offer them a job for the day.

Well, those men all live here. Their children go to the school.

Today I sub'd for an ESL class --English as a Second Language. 

Let me tell you....these kids do NOT want to learn.

They are rude, bad, perverted. They curse in their own language all through class and they curse at me. They all have iphones, gold and silver necklaces. Expensive sneakers.  New Jeans, shirts.  

Ever single day they get free breakfast and free lunch.

There are two teachers dedicated to teaching the ESL classes.  The teachers here make anywhere from 60 to 95,000 a year.  

If the kids were good and wanted to learn and were courteous and appreciate I might even feel a little better....but they are BAD!  They pick up chairs and threaten other kids with them, they climb out the window and climb back in. They never completed their work and they never tried today.

They also have bandannas in their back pockets which means they belong to a gang --I think.

Meanwhile I live in an affluent area where people can pay upwards of $25,000 a year on their house taxes!  


how happy does this make you?  It doesn't make me too happy.....


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## Gunny

xsited1 said:


> So that's what the Hispanic vote costs.  I never knew until now.



Why do you think politicians won't touch it?  They just pay the issue lip service until they can shelve it again.  

Neither side wants to alienate the Hispanic American vote; which, in and of itself is stupid that Hispanic Americans would vote against control of illegal immigration.


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## Turboswede

They should be entitled to receive benefits seeing as how they pay taxes!

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html

Here in Washington we only have a sales tax and a property tax so that it doesnt matter if you are a citizen or illegal immigrant, you are still going to pay the same rate of tax.  So (in Washington at least) they dam well have a right to benefits.  In fact, they are suffering from taxation without representation and thats an issue that should be addressed.  

I believe its similar in CA as you are required to file a 540 or 540NR regardless of your status federal immigration status.  The only thing I think they would avoid is federal income tax, but as most of them would not have any taxable income their net FIT would be $0 anyway.  They do pay federal payroll and consumption taxes (gas tax, etc.).

*Why are all of you so scared of immigration? Unless your last name is something like Running Bear you probably have some immigrant history too and should stop being so hypocritical!*


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## Turboswede

Andrew2382 said:


> 1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year. FAIR: Immigration and Welfare
> 
> 2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. http://www.cisorg/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
> 
> 3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens. http://www.cisorg/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
> 
> 4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html
> 
> 5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies. CNN.com - Transcripts
> 
> 6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. CNN.com - Transcripts
> 
> 7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens. CNN.com - Transcripts
> 
> 8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare and Social Services by the American taxpayers. http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html




These cost are not cumulative, pick one and run with it depending on how much you hate illegals (food aid and welfare are the same thing, etc.), Gunny took the $90B figure and I think that should be enough.

If Illegals didn't take those $200B in "American" jobs, the jobs would just migrate to Mexico anyway because US citizen wages are too high.


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## PoliticalChic

GigiBowman said:


> I am a substitute teacher in my local High School.  We have a large Illegal Immigrant problem in our town....you know how it is....every morning there's hundreds of guys stanging on a particular corner...all of them hoping the next car that drives by will pull over and offer them a job for the day.
> 
> Well, those men all live here. Their children go to the school.
> 
> Today I sub'd for an ESL class --English as a Second Language.
> 
> Let me tell you....these kids do NOT want to learn.
> 
> They are rude, bad, perverted. They curse in their own language all through class and they curse at me. They all have iphones, gold and silver necklaces. Expensive sneakers.  New Jeans, shirts.
> 
> Ever single day they get free breakfast and free lunch.
> 
> There are two teachers dedicated to teaching the ESL classes.  The teachers here make anywhere from 60 to 95,000 a year.
> 
> If the kids were good and wanted to learn and were courteous and appreciate I might even feel a little better....but they are BAD!  They pick up chairs and threaten other kids with them, they climb out the window and climb back in. They never completed their work and they never tried today.
> 
> They also have bandannas in their back pockets which means they belong to a gang --I think.
> 
> Meanwhile I live in an affluent area where people can pay upwards of $25,000 a year on their house taxes!
> 
> 
> how happy does this make you?  It doesn't make me too happy.....



And of course, these kids are looked up to by other kids -- not only sucking up our money, but also spreading the "social" disease.  And people wonder why I homeschool.


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## Turboswede

GigiBowman said:


> I am a substitute teacher in my local High School.  We have a large Illegal Immigrant problem in our town....you know how it is....every morning there's hundreds of guys stanging on a particular corner...all of them hoping the next car that drives by will pull over and offer them a job for the day.
> 
> Well, those men all live here. Their children go to the school.
> 
> Today I sub'd for an ESL class --English as a Second Language.
> 
> Let me tell you....these kids do NOT want to learn.
> 
> They are rude, bad, perverted. They curse in their own language all through class and they curse at me. They all have iphones, gold and silver necklaces. Expensive sneakers.  New Jeans, shirts.



Hey GiGi, hows my favorite Librarian (oops, I mean Libertarian) doing today?

I must admit even as a bleeding heart liberal I have mixed feelings about ESL programs.  I immigrated with my family back in the 70s and as there was no ESL program for European languages it forced me to learn English VERY quickly if I wanted to relate to any of the other kids.  I think ESL programs stand in the way of assimilation by creating a separate group off the bat and, like the court said in _Brown v. Board of Ed_, separated by its very nature can never be equal.

We seem to spend a lot of dollars trying to teach kids in special (read segregated) class in a language other than English.  The net effect is to cost more money than need be and prevent immigrants from assimilating into American culture.  Where I grew up they did have ESL classes for Asian students (Korean, Vietnamese, Laotian, etc.) and my impression was that the kids who stayed in those classes past elementary school ended up excluded from the social experience of being an American teenager where as a couple of my friends who toughed it out in English based classes were seen as just normal kids.

I know that if I had the crutch of ESL I would never have lost my original accent and I would have hated going through high school sounding like my Dad.


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## Sovereignty

Turboswede said:


> They should be entitled to receive benefits seeing as how they pay taxes!
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html
> 
> Here in Washington we only have a sales tax and a property tax so that it doesnt matter if you are a citizen or illegal immigrant, you are still going to pay the same rate of tax.  So (in Washington at least) they dam well have a right to benefits.  In fact, they are suffering from taxation without representation and thats an issue that should be addressed.
> 
> I believe its similar in CA as you are required to file a 540 or 540NR regardless of your status federal immigration status.  The only thing I think they would avoid is federal income tax, but as most of them would not have any taxable income their net FIT would be $0 anyway.  They do pay federal payroll and consumption taxes (gas tax, etc.).
> 
> *Why are all of you so scared of immigration? Unless your last name is something like Running Bear you probably have some immigrant history too and should stop being so hypocritical!*



Tourist pay taxes.  You're in America now, you must obey the law of the land.  We're not living in the dark ages anymore!  

We are nation of laws, no one is above the law.  Why should we reward illegal aliens for breaking the laws?

To reward illegal aliens for breaking the laws would be like, letting a bank robber keep the money he stole from a bank heist, after he gets out of jail.  

The illegal alien don't deserve to be rewarded they need to be arrest and returned to their country of origin!  They cost the American taxpayer's more than they put into the system.  They also murder people.

Big business runs the media and politicians, lobbyist legally bribe our politicians to run America into the ground.  

*Why should illegal aliens be treated better than the citizens of the United States?  Answer that question*

If you feel so strongly about illegal aliens why don't you go to their country and fix their government.  Riot in the streets and make their government provide jobs, food, education and medical care.

No one is scared of LEGAL IMMIGRATION.  The illegal aliens can come the right way OR don't come at.  Maybe you could help them in their own country obtain the proper paper work required by Federal law to immigrate.  Just like the rest of the immigrants that want to come to America!  File the proper paper work and get in line, LEGAL OR LEAVE!


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## Turboswede

Sovereignty said:


> Tourist pay taxes.  You're in America now, you must obey the law of the land.  We're not living in the dark ages anymore!
> 
> We are nation of laws, no one is above the law.  Why should we reward illegal aliens for breaking the laws?



I dont get your argument, tourists dont pay social security & medicare taxes unless they are working here illegally so they shouldnt be entitled to those benefits.  If you want to choke off the flow of illegals hit the people who hire them, as long as there is a market for their labor people will come across the border.



Sovereignty said:


> To reward illegal aliens for breaking the laws would be like, letting a bank robber keep the money he stole from a bank heist, after he gets out of jail.
> 
> The illegal alien don't deserve to be rewarded they need to be arrest and returned to their country of origin!  They cost the American taxpayer's more than they put into the system.  They also murder people.



Whats the reward?  I dont get this argument.



Sovereignty said:


> Big business runs the media and politicians, lobbyist legally bribe our politicians to run America into the ground.



Right, thats why all the focus is on the family trying to get into the country rather than the Wal-Mart or Farm that employs them because they will work for less than minimum wage under the threat of deportation, big business does not want a source of cheep docile labor chocked off.



Sovereignty said:


> *Why should illegal aliens be treated better than the citizens of the United States?  Answer that question*



How are they being treated better?



Sovereignty said:


> If you feel so strongly about illegal aliens why don't you go to their country and fix their government.  Riot in the streets and make their government provide jobs, food, education and medical care.



Umbecause I am an American and America is founded on immigrants seeking a better life.

Look, if someone is going to leave their family behind, cross a desert where it reaches 120, swim through a sewage filled wash, climb a barb wire fence and risk being shot by border guards and Militia Minute Men for a manual labor job that pays $1.25 per hour; they deserve citizenship more then at least 10% of the folks who happen to be born on US territory. 

One last thing, I am generally proud to be an American and I love my adopted homeland, but I felt true shame the first time my family was stopped at an INS checkpoint on highway 8 (San Diego to Tucson) and asked for our papersThat shouldnt happen in my America. 



Sovereignty said:


> No one is scared of LEGAL IMMIGRATION.  The illegal aliens can come the right way OR don't come at.  Maybe you could help them in their own country obtain the proper paper work required by Federal law to immigrate.  Just like the rest of the immigrants that want to come to America!  File the proper paper work and get in line, LEGAL OR LEAVE!



Of course they are, Xenophobic people have always shaped US immigration to prevent undesirables from immigrating legally, in the 1800s it was the Irish, then the Italians, then the Chinese, they anyone not of Caucasian Decent then not Caucasians either unless they derived from northern European heritage.  What is legal and Illegal when it comes to immigration has a lot to do with the general attitude toward a specific type of immigrant at a certain time in history.

I will just keep working to open up US borders so that we can keep attracting the best and brightest from all over the world and keep America the land of opportunity.


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## Againsheila

Turboswede said:


> They should be entitled to receive benefits seeing as how they pay taxes!
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html
> 
> Here in Washington we only have a sales tax and a property tax so that it doesnt matter if you are a citizen or illegal immigrant, you are still going to pay the same rate of tax.  So (in Washington at least) they dam well have a right to benefits.  In fact, they are suffering from taxation without representation and thats an issue that should be addressed.
> 
> I believe its similar in CA as you are required to file a 540 or 540NR regardless of your status federal immigration status.  The only thing I think they would avoid is federal income tax, but as most of them would not have any taxable income their net FIT would be $0 anyway.  They do pay federal payroll and consumption taxes (gas tax, etc.).
> 
> *Why are all of you so scared of immigration? Unless your last name is something like Running Bear you probably have some immigrant history too and should stop being so hypocritical!*



Immigrants do have rights, illegals do not.  They take from the rest of us.  They keep our wages low, and as a result less taxes go into the state budget and they end up making the taxes on our citizens increase.  To grant these law breakers ANYTHING is a slap in the face to every LEGAL immigrant in this nation.  Why should anyone get the background check, the health check, pay the fees, fill out the forms, go through the interview process AND get sponsors if all they have to do is walk across our border ILLEGALLY and get the same benefits?

Do you have any idea how many millions of people are denied entry to this nation every year and don't break our laws to get here?  Why do you think illegals deserve more rights than those people?  Because they are willing to break our laws???  That just makes no sense whatsoever.


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## Sovereignty

TURBOSWEDE,

America is not yours to give away.  I'm playing the tinyest violin in the world for you right now.  Can you hear it?  The only thing illegal aliens deserve is a good kick in the pants and deported back to their country of origin.  Why don't go too, to help them come back the legal way.  You're need there, run along...

The Department of Health and Human Services spent $672.9 billion in 2007 according to financial analyst Edwin S. Rubenstein.
&#8220;Immigrants are poorer, pay less tax, and are more likely to receive public benefits than American citizens,&#8221; said Edwin Rubenstein, reporting on the National Research Council&#8217;s new book: &#8220;The New Americans: Economic, Demographics and Fiscal Effects of Immigration.&#8221; The Social Contract Winter 2007-08. The Social Contract Press - a quarterly journal on population, environment, public issues, international migration, immigration, language and assimilation
Source:
http://nationalwriterssyndicate.com/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=483

*****

DIRECT LINK;  To The Department Of Homeland Security Report by Shadow Secretary of Homeland Security Edwin S. Rubenstein.
http://www.esrresearch.com/Rubensteinreport.pdf


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## Turboswede

Sovereignty said:


> TURBOSWEDE,
> 
> America is not yours to give away.  I'm playing the tinyest violin in the world for you right now.  Can you hear it?  The only thing illegal aliens deserve is a good kick in the pants and deported back to their country of origin.  Why don't go too, to help them come back the legal way.  You're need there, run along...
> 
> The Department of Health and Human Services spent $672.9 billion in 2007 according to financial analyst Edwin S. Rubenstein.
> Immigrants are poorer, pay less tax, and are more likely to receive public benefits than American citizens, said Edwin Rubenstein, reporting on the National Research Councils new book: The New Americans: Economic, Demographics and Fiscal Effects of Immigration. The Social Contract Winter 2007-08. The Social Contract Press - a quarterly journal on population, environment, public issues, international migration, immigration, language and assimilation
> Source:
> http://nationalwriterssyndicate.com/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=483



Right but its not yours to deny either.

Why play a Violin for me, I think the pro-immigration side of the argument is winning.  

Oh and it looks like your source doesnt discriminate vey much between legal and illegal immigrants, how about this.  If you avoid linking ultra-right sources I will refrain from linking articles from the Revolutionary Worker.  

Fiscal Impact of America's Foreign-Born Population - Social Contract Press - a quarterly journal on population, environment, public issues, international migration, immigration, language and assimilation


*Oh, and as the DHHS budget for 2008 is $9.8 Billion, I doubt they spent $672.9 Billion on Immigrants (leagal or otherwise) in 2007.*

So Sovereignty, what tribe do you belong to?

I think I will stay here and double my efforts on opening up the borders so that those looking for a place where hard work equates to success can continue to keep America strong in the coming century.


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## Sovereignty

Turboswede said:


> Right but it&#8217;s not yours to deny either.
> 
> Why play a Violin for me, I think the pro-immigration side of the argument is winning.
> 
> Oh and it looks like your source doesn&#8217;t discriminate vey much between legal and illegal immigrants, how about this.  If you avoid linking ultra-right sources I will refrain from linking articles from the Revolutionary Worker.
> 
> Fiscal Impact of America's Foreign-Born Population - Social Contract Press - a quarterly journal on population, environment, public issues, international migration, immigration, language and assimilation
> 
> 
> *Oh, and as the DHHS budget for 2008 is $9.8 Billion, I doubt they spent $672.9 Billion on &#8220;Immigrants&#8221; (leagal or otherwise) in 2007.*
> 
> So Sovereignty, what tribe do you belong to?
> 
> I think I will stay here and double my efforts on opening up the borders so that those looking for a place where hard work equates to success can continue to keep America strong in the coming century.



Hurry up and drink the rest of your KOOLAID! I'm an American Citizen natural born, so I guess that's what tribe I am from.  What 3rd World cesspool country is your mama from?

Perhaps you will like these SOURCES better:

The Fiscal Impact of immigration An Analysis of the Cost to 15 Federal Departments and Agencies
The Social Contract:  An Exclusive Report Department of Homeland Security by Shadow Secretary of Homeland Security Edwin S. Rubenstein
http://www.esrresearch.com/Rubensteinreport.pdf

***

Web page:
Health and Human Services ... Department of Health and Human Services spent $672.9 billion in 2007 - Yahoo! Search Results


Turbowsede,

The illegal aliens and their supporters have got some nerve complaining, when its U.S. Taxpayers that are footing the bills for their every need. It's the taxpayers that feed, house and cloth them and born their young and rear and educate them and provide the medical care they use, and I might add fine medical care!

If it wasn&#8217;t for the American taxpayers illegal aliens and their Anchor babies would be squatting around a camp fire making dinner every night.  They&#8217;d be living in stick and mud huts with 6 kids running around in loin cloths, chewing on bones!

***

The Department of Health and Human Services spent $672.9 billion in 2007 according to financial analyst Edwin S. Rubenstein.

 &#8220;Immigrants are poorer, pay less tax, and are more likely to receive public benefits than American citizens,&#8221; said Edwin Rubenstein, reporting on the National Research Council&#8217;s new book: &#8220;The New Americans: Economic, Demographics and Fiscal Effects of Immigration
SOURCE:
http://www.esrresearch.com/Rubensteinreport.pdf


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## Andrew2382

Turboswede said:


> These cost are not cumulative, pick one and run with it depending on how much you hate illegals (food aid and welfare are the same thing, etc.), Gunny took the $90B figure and I think that should be enough.
> 
> If Illegals didn't take those $200B in "American" jobs, the jobs would just migrate to Mexico anyway because US citizen wages are too high.



Of course they are cumulative.  They all relate to Illegal Immigration


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## Sovereignty




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## PeterS

Sovereignty said:


> $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
> 
> 
> CNN.com - Transcripts
> 
> ROBERT RECTOR, HERITAGE FOUNDATION:
> 
> "Well, assuming that we have about 11 million immigrants in the U.S., the net cost or the total cost of services and benefits provided to them, education, welfare, general social services would be about $90 billion a year, and they would pay very little in taxes. It's important to remember that at least half of illegal immigrants are high school dropouts."



Is this the cost net of taxes paid by illegals? Also, what about the increase in profits to businesses or the lower CoGS passed on to customers? You have to know all of the above before you can calculate actual cost. Has this been done. If not then what is the real point of your argument?


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## Vel

Turboswede said:


> I will just keep working to open up US borders so that we can keep attracting the best and brightest from all over the world and keep America the land of opportunity.



In case you couldn't read the teachers post, those swarming our borders are not the best and brightest from all over the world and they are doing anything but continuing to make America the land of opportunity. With a more than 50% out of wedlock birthrate, what they're creating is another third world like the one they left behind.


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## Againsheila

One last thing, I am generally proud to be an American and I love my adopted homeland, but I felt true shame the first time my family was stopped at an INS checkpoint on highway 8 (San Diego to Tucson) and asked for our papers&#8230;That shouldn&#8217;t happen in my America. 

<<< 

I'm so glad you are proud of this country that granted you and your family entrance.  I'm so glad you want all the peoples of the world to come here and overrun our country.  I'm so glad no one taught you about over population or the fact that America's resources are limited.  Right here, in our state, (yes I live in WA also) at the current rate of growth, our state will run out of water by 2016.  They've been trying for the last 30 years to fix the traffic problem and failed miserably, do you really think they'll fix the water problem in 8 years?

BTW, my father was career Air Force.  My family was stationed in England when Hungary was taken over by the communists.  My family took in a couple that had escaped Hungary and they lived with us for over a year.  My father tried, unsuccessfully to get the couple into our country but they were denied.  It didn't matter that my father was career Air Force for the USA or that my parents, grand parents and great grandparents had all been Americans and many of them have served in the military, our friends were denied entry to our country.  They ended up living out their lives in Canada.

Now explain to me why you believe illegals deserve more rights than our friends?


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## Turboswede

Againsheila said:


> One last thing, I am generally proud to be an American and I love my adopted homeland, but I felt true shame the first time my family was stopped at an INS checkpoint on highway 8 (San Diego to Tucson) and asked for our papersThat shouldnt happen in my America.
> 
> <<<
> 
> I'm so glad you are proud of this country that granted you and your family entrance.  I'm so glad you want all the peoples of the world to come here and overrun our country.  I'm so glad no one taught you about over population or the fact that America's resources are limited.  Right here, in our state, (yes I live in WA also) at the current rate of growth, our state will run out of water by 2016.  They've been trying for the last 30 years to fix the traffic problem and failed miserably, do you really think they'll fix the water problem in 8 years?
> 
> BTW, my father was career Air Force.  My family was stationed in England when Hungary was taken over by the communists.  My family took in a couple that had escaped Hungary and they lived with us for over a year.  My father tried, unsuccessfully to get the couple into our country but they were denied.  It didn't matter that my father was career Air Force for the USA or that my parents, grand parents and great grandparents had all been Americans and many of them have served in the military, our friends were denied entry to our country.  They ended up living out their lives in Canada.
> 
> Now explain to me why you believe illegals deserve more rights than our friends?



Um...Washington State, run out of water, are you high?

My family didn't have any trouble geting into America, we were white, Northern European and had over $1M to start a business.  Too bad for those Hungarian Commies though.


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## Againsheila

Turboswede said:


> Um...Washington State, run out of water, are you high?
> 
> My family didn't have any trouble geting into America, we were white, Northern European and had over $1M to start a business.  Too bad for those Hungarian Commies though.



Okay, I can't find the report documenting our problem with water.  Here's the closest thing I can find.

FOOD, LAND, POPULATION and the U.S. ECONOMY

At the present growth rate of 1.1% per year, the U.S. population will double to more than half a billion people within the next 60 years. It is estimated that approximately one acre of land is lost due to urbanization and highway construction alone for every person added to the U.S. population. 
This means that only 0.6 acres of farmland would be available to grow food for each American in 2050, as opposed to the 1.8 acres per capita available today. At least 1.2 acres per person is required in order to maintain current American dietary standards. Food prices are projected to increase 3 to 5-fold within this period. 
If present population growth, domestic food consumption and topsoil loss trends continue, the U.S. will most likely cease to be a food exporter by approximately 2025 because food grown in the U.S. will be needed for domestic purposes. 
Since food exports earn $40 billion for the U.S. annually, the loss of this income source would result in an even greater increase in America's trade deficit. 
Considering that America is the world's largest food exporter, the future survival of millions of people around the world may also come into question if food exports from the U.S. were to cease. 

We cannot afford to take in the rest of the world.  With your $million, perhaps you could sponsor a poor hispanic family so they could come legally?  No one would object to that.  My family has sponsored several immigrants.  How many has yours sponsored and why do you believe that the illegal immigrants have more rights than the legal immigrants?  Than our friends that were denied entry?


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## sealybobo

$120 billion spent in Iraq every year.


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## jodylee

Sovereignty said:


> $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
> 
> 
> CNN.com - Transcripts
> 
> ROBERT RECTOR, HERITAGE FOUNDATION:
> 
> "Well, assuming that we have about 11 million immigrants in the U.S., the net cost or the total cost of services and benefits provided to them, education, welfare, general social services would be about $90 billion a year, and they would pay very little in taxes. It's important to remember that at least half of illegal immigrants are high school dropouts."



1, you are all immigrants. and owe your existance to the slaugter of millions of native americans.
2, what about the effect so much cheep labour has on your economy.
3, when times go bad why do you blame the people at the bottom, when your economy has just been shafted by the people at the top.
4, if they weren't illigal maybe they could pay taxes. they just need the same chance your ancestors had.
5, whos gona do the crappy jobs you lot dont want, esspecialy as you look down on anyone who dosn't ware a tie to work.

in short, your a bunch of overweight, greedy, spoilet little brats, so gullable that you voted in george bush as president, TWICE!. 
so you deserve whats coming to ya, when the dollar collapses.


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## Sovereignty

jodylee said:


> 1, you are all immigrants. and owe your existance to the slaugter of millions of native americans.
> 2, what about the effect so much cheep labour has on your economy.
> 3, when times go bad why do you blame the people at the bottom, when your economy has just been shafted by the people at the top.
> 4, if they weren't illigal maybe they could pay taxes. they just need the same chance your ancestors had.
> 5, whos gona do the crappy jobs you lot dont want, esspecialy as you look down on anyone who dosn't ware a tie to work.
> 
> in short, your a bunch of overweight, greedy, spoilet little brats, so gullable that you voted in george bush as president, TWICE!.
> so you deserve whats coming to ya, when the dollar collapses.




You are very Anti-American, borderline Home grown terrorist.  Why do you hate America so much that you wish to destroy her from within?

Don't worry about the undesirable jobs.  Someone did them before the illegal alien invasion and some will do them after we eradicate the illegal aliens.  

We have machines that can do most of jobs.  We have engineers that are inventing more high tech. machinery to do manual labor as we speak.  The jobs that require human interventions will be worked by American citizens with a living wage!  I personally am against paying illegal aliens $1.50 an hour to break their backs in the farm field, when the produce is still sold at fair market value to the American public.


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## Andrew2382

sealybobo said:


> $120 billion spent in Iraq every year.



over 300 billion a year spent in illegal immigration


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## Turboswede

Againsheila said:


> Okay, I can't find the report documenting our problem with water.  Here's the closest thing I can find.
> 
> FOOD, LAND, POPULATION and the U.S. ECONOMY
> 
> At the present growth rate of 1.1% per year, the U.S. population will double to more than half a billion people within the next 60 years. It is estimated that approximately one acre of land is lost due to urbanization and highway construction alone for every person added to the U.S. population.
> This means that only 0.6 acres of farmland would be available to grow food for each American in 2050, as opposed to the 1.8 acres per capita available today. At least 1.2 acres per person is required in order to maintain current American dietary standards. Food prices are projected to increase 3 to 5-fold within this period.
> If present population growth, domestic food consumption and topsoil loss trends continue, the U.S. will most likely cease to be a food exporter by approximately 2025 because food grown in the U.S. will be needed for domestic purposes.
> Since food exports earn $40 billion for the U.S. annually, the loss of this income source would result in an even greater increase in America's trade deficit.
> Considering that America is the world's largest food exporter, the future survival of millions of people around the world may also come into question if food exports from the U.S. were to cease.
> We cannot afford to take in the rest of the world.  With your $million, perhaps you could sponsor a poor hispanic family so they could come legally?  No one would object to that.  My family has sponsored several immigrants.  How many has yours sponsored and why do you believe that the illegal immigrants have more rights than the legal immigrants?  Than our friends that were denied entry?



Ok, just dealing with WA I pulled some numbers from the USDA and The WA dept of agriculture if you want to check them out go to:

http://agr.wa.gov/fof/LandStats.pdf

In 2007 we produced $5.3 Billion in agricultural products including an agricultural Surplus of $2.6 Billion, given a CBT price of $564 per 5,000 Bu thats a surplus of about 1,500 Bu per acre of farm land so it stands to reason that WA could still be a net exporter of food if only 7,500,00 acres were used for Agriculture.

Currently agriculture uses 50% of all private land in WA but supplies only 2% of the GSP.  Assuming that other counties keep producing food for export, if we were to convert ¼ of WA agricultural land to urban use, we would be able to increase Gross State Product by $67 Billion or 25% while still producing an agricultural surplus of 11 Billion Bu per year.  Even given your own 1.2 acres per person, Agriculture in WA should be able to provide for 12 Million People and still generate a surplus.  The thing is our land is much more productive if put to a use other than agriculture, and a reduction in agricultural work would also help stem the tide of illegal immigration as agricultural work would shift from the U.S. to Mexico.  

Given the .88% rate of National growth determined by the US Census (which is below the average of 1.16% growth rate), the population of WA will reach its agricultural tipping point of 12 Million people by 2072 provided that no advancements increase agricultural productivity in the next 64 years.

Of course, if the past is any indication of the future agricultural productivity will increase, given the finding of this USDA report on agricultural productivity:

http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/aib740/aib740.pdf

The average rate of growth for the period 1948-1998 (50 years) was 1.56% so, extrapolating on that figure, by growing  Soylient Blue (or whatever it is in 2072) WA will be able to support a population of 18 Million so, even with our population of 12 Million and ½ the farm land we are currently using, Wa will produce a 30% Agricultural Surplus, so I think the argument about not being able to feed the immigrants just doesnt hold water.


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## Turboswede

Sovereignty said:


> You are very Anti-American, borderline Home grown terrorist.  Why do you hate America so much that you wish to destroy her from within?



Why are they Anti-American, borderline Home grown terrorist for pointing out that anyone without a tribal membership was an immigrant at one point or another?  From the list of points:

1, you are all immigrants. and owe your existence to the slaughter of millions of native Americans.

2, what about the effect so much cheap labor has on your economy.

3, when times go bad why do you blame the people at the bottom, when your economy has just been shafted by the people at the top.

4, if they weren't illegal maybe they could pay taxes. they just need the same chance your ancestors had.

5, whos gona do the crappy jobs you lot dont want, especially as you look down on anyone who doesnt ware a tie to work.

I dont see this as being against America as much as being against the Idea that we are happy that business profits from immigrant labor on the one hand and want to reject providing those same works with basic human rights.

I dont see how objecting to taxation without representation is Anti-American, and I didnt see any reference to violence that would suggest Terrorism, terrorists need to advocate violence in order to inspire terror (thus terrorism).  In this case I just see someone who is angry about a perceived injustice and wants to talk about it.



Sovereignty said:


> Don't worry about the undesirable jobs.  Someone did them before the illegal alien invasion and some will do them after we eradicate the illegal aliens.
> 
> We have machines that can do most of jobs.  We have engineers that are inventing more high tech. machinery to do manual labor as we speak.  The jobs that require human interventions will be worked by American citizens with a living wage!  I personally am against paying illegal aliens $1.50 an hour to break their backs in the farm field, when the produce is still sold at fair market value to the American public.



From all the rhetoric you pulled from Social Contract Press, I would guess that you have a similar view of any Foreign-Born Quasi Americans, so do you agree with their stance on L and H Visas, in which case the sucking sound you hear will be jobs moving to India.


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## Sovereignty

Turboswede said:


> Why are they &#8220;Anti-American, borderline Home grown terrorist&#8221; for pointing out that anyone without a tribal membership was an immigrant at one point or another?  From the list of points:
> 
> 1, you are all immigrants. and owe your existence to the slaughter of millions of native Americans.
> 
> 2, what about the effect so much cheap labor has on your economy.
> 
> 3, when times go bad why do you blame the people at the bottom, when your economy has just been shafted by the people at the top.
> 
> 4, if they weren't illegal maybe they could pay taxes. they just need the same chance your ancestors had.
> 
> 5, who&#8217;s gona do the crappy jobs you lot don&#8217;t want, especially as you look down on anyone who doesn&#8217;t ware a tie to work.
> 
> I don&#8217;t see this as being against America as much as being against the Idea that we are happy that business profits from immigrant labor on the one hand and want to reject providing those same works with basic human rights.
> 
> I don&#8217;t see how objecting to taxation without representation is &#8220;Anti-American&#8221;, and I didn&#8217;t see any reference to violence that would suggest Terrorism, terrorists need to advocate violence in order to inspire &#8220;terror&#8221; (thus terrorism).  In this case I just see someone who is angry about a perceived injustice and wants to talk about it.
> 
> 
> 
> From all the rhetoric you pulled from Social Contract Press, I would guess that you have a similar view of any &#8220;Foreign-Born&#8221; Quasi Americans, so do you agree with their stance on L and H Visas, in which case the sucking sound you hear will be jobs moving to India.



*I have no qualms about legal immigration or Legal immigrants.  Just the illegal aliens who are violating our country.*

The Social Contract is An Exclusive Report by Department of Homeland Security by Shadow Secretary of Homeland Security, Edwin S. Rubebstein.

"Called The Fiscal Imapct Of Immigration An Analysis Of the Cost To 15 Federal Department And Agengies"

Here's the Link:
SOURCE:
http://www.esrresearch.com/Rubensteinreport.pdf

Excerpt:

The Department of Health and Human Services spent $672.9 billion in 2007 according to financial analyst Edwin S. Rubenstein.

 &#8220;Immigrants are poorer, pay less tax, and are more likely to receive public benefits than American citizens,&#8221; said Edwin Rubenstein, reporting on the National Research Council&#8217;s new book: &#8220;The New Americans: Economic, Demographics and Fiscal Effects of Immigration


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## Againsheila

jodylee said:


> 1, you are all immigrants. and owe your existance to the slaugter of millions of native americans.
> 2, what about the effect so much cheep labour has on your economy.
> 3, when times go bad why do you blame the people at the bottom, when your economy has just been shafted by the people at the top.
> 4, if they weren't illigal maybe they could pay taxes. they just need the same chance your ancestors had.
> 5, whos gona do the crappy jobs you lot dont want, esspecialy as you look down on anyone who dosn't ware a tie to work.
> 
> in short, your a bunch of overweight, greedy, spoilet little brats, so gullable that you voted in george bush as president, TWICE!.
> so you deserve whats coming to ya, when the dollar collapses.



The USA didn't exist until the Europeans got here and fought the English and won their Independence and started their own country.

I so called "native americans" came across on the land bridge as all of us supposedly evolved in Africa.  That makes them immigrants too.

My parents took in some Hungarian refugees that feld when the communists took over Hungary.  My father was career USAF.  My parents couldn't get our friends into this country.  Why do you believe someone who sneaks across the border deserves more rights than our friends?

My brother married a woman from Thailand.  It cost him $thousands, she had to have a medical check, a background check and my parents had to sponsor her so she could come, why do you believe someone who sneaks across our border deserves more rights than my sister in law?

My brother in law is from Canada, he had $40,000 in the bank and my parents STILL had to sponsor him so he could come here even though he was married to my sister and they had two kids.  Why do you believe illegals deserve more rights than my brother in law?

My cousin in law came here from Germany, same story, background check, medical check, fees paid, forms filled out, sponsorship, why do you believe someone who snuck across the borders deserves more rights than him?

At this time in our history, why do you think ANYONE should be allowed into this country to stay without a complete background and health check?


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## Windship

Sovereignty said:


> It makes you wonder when are the American people going to wake up and STOP letting a handful of politicians run our country into the ground.  We need to VOTE THE BUMS OUT, ALL OF THEM, NO EXCEPTIONS!
> 
> Either that OR get ready to be demoted to 3rd World Status.



And vote in who???


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