# Let There Be Peace Already



## MJB12741 (May 5, 2012)

If I were prime minister of Israel the first thing I would do is acknowledge that Hamas is the duly elected government of the Palestinian people.  No peace can be obtained by just ignoring Hamas as a terrorist organization.  I would invite all of Hamas leaders to Tel Aviv for peace negotiations.  I would provide them with the most lavish housing & fine dining available throughout this historic event.  After an introductory dinner while we are all seated I would make an announcement to Hamas --- Welcome & thank you for coming.  From now on, each time you kill an Israeli, Israel will retaliate by killing 10,000 Palestinians.  Then I would open up the meeting for peace negotiations.  What could be more fair & ethical than to let Hamas decide how many, if any, Palestinians Israel will have to kill for peace.


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## Saigon (May 5, 2012)

The situation you describe (wherein each time you kill, we kill 10,000) is not so different from the situaton as it has existed since the mid-eighties, in both Lebanon and Gaza. 

It just doesn't work. You don't disuade angry 17 year olds from firing rockets by warning him of dire consequences. Unfortunately. 

If I were the PM of Israel, I'd agree to recognise and talk to Hamas when Hamas agree to recognise and talk to me. Hamas can't do that, so it doesn't happen. Unfortunately. 

But if Israel anounced "Enough. We want to get this conflict sorted, and we'll pull out of the West Bank within 12 months if Hamas agree" perhaps they would. I'd apply public pressure of Hamas, and make it look as if Hamas is the impediment to peace. Which it is.


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## JStone (May 5, 2012)

> Torah: Love thy neighbor.  Love the stranger.  Love the foreigner.





> Quran: We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"


United States President John Quincy Adams


> The precept of the koran is perpetual war against all who deny that Mahomet is the prophet of God. The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute; the victorious may be appeased by a false and delusive promise of peace; and the faithful follower of the prophet, may submit to the imperious necessities of defeat: but the command to propagate the Moslem creed by the sword is always obligatory, when it can be made effective. The commands of the prophet may be performed alike, by fraud, or by force.
> Amazon.com: Memoir of the life of John Quincy Adams. (9781240038398): Josiah Quincy: Books


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## peach174 (May 5, 2012)

Hamas wants to wipe Israel off the map. They will not change, as long as Palestinians keep them in power there will never be peace.


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## JStone (May 5, 2012)

peach174 said:


> Hamas wants to wipe Israel off the map. They will not change, as long as Palestinians keep them in power there will never be peace.



Yes, but, what's a palestinian?


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## peach174 (May 5, 2012)

JStone said:


> peach174 said:
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> > Hamas wants to wipe Israel off the map. They will not change, as long as Palestinians keep them in power there will never be peace.
> ...



That's the million dollar question huh.
They are Arabs and DNA shows that Jews and Arabs are related.
Epiphenom: The shared genetic heritage of Jews and Palestinians


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## JStone (May 5, 2012)

peach174 said:


> JStone said:
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Yes, but, what's a palestinian?


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## peach174 (May 5, 2012)

JStone said:


> peach174 said:
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It only became Palestine when the LN (League of Nations) granted it as a temporary mandate to Great Britain who promptly gave 2/3 of it to the Hashemite Arabs (yep, same tribe) forming the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan. The rump of Palestine was divided between the majority Jewish area and majority Muslim area by the UN with the Jewish part being called Israel and the Muslim part retaining the Palestine name.

Bottom line: there was never a nation called Palestine nor was there ever a nation comprised of the area of Palestine called another name. The closest thing today is The Palestinian Authority which has been blocked by a rebel HAMAS government in Gaza from forming a country and, one could argue, Jordan, comprising 2/3 of Palestine (it was half when they invaded the area that was to be a free Palestine in 1948 and annexed the west bank until defeated by Israel in the sixties).


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## JStone (May 5, 2012)

peach174 said:


> JStone said:
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I thought history says the Romans renamed Israel "palestine" during the Roman Empire thousands of years before the UN, in an attempt to destroy the 1000 year Jewish identity of Israel, just like the Romans destroyed Carthage.  

The historians are wrong?


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## Saigon (May 6, 2012)

peach174 said:


> JStone said:
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It's a question for people who don't follow the debate. It's not a question any informed analyst would ask. 

Actually, I'd go further and say that for most people who ask it - as we see on this thread - the question is about avoiding real answers rather than finding them.


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## P F Tinmore (May 6, 2012)

peach174 said:


> JStone said:
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> It only became Palestine when the LN (League of Nations) granted it as a temporary mandate to Great Britain...



The Palestine Mandate was an administrative position given to Britain to assist the already existing Palestine. Britain never annexed or otherwise claimed ownership of Palestine. Palestine continued to exist after the end of the mandate.



> The rump of Palestine was divided between the majority Jewish area and majority Muslim area by the UN...



It was not. The UN did not partition Palestine.


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## JStone (May 6, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> peach174 said:
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"Rep System Guidelines: Our reputation system is designed to provide a feedback and credibility mechanism."

P F Tinmore Rep Power: 0
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,512
"PF Tinmore is off the scale"


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## MJB12741 (May 6, 2012)

Anyone else have a suggestion for peace between Israel & the Palestinians?  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!




MJB12741 said:


> If I were prime minister of Israel the first thing I would do is acknowledge that Hamas is the duly elected government of the Palestinian people.  No peace can be obtained by just ignoring Hamas as a terrorist organization.  I would invite all of Hamas leaders to Tel Aviv for peace negotiations.  I would provide them with the most lavish housing & fine dining available throughout this historic event.  After an introductory dinner while we are all seated I would make an announcement to Hamas --- Welcome & thank you for coming.  From now on, each time you kill an Israeli, Israel will retaliate by killing 10,000 Palestinians.  Then I would open up the meeting for peace negotiations.  What could be more fair & ethical than to let Hamas decide how many, if any, Palestinians Israel will have to kill for peace.


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## Saigon (May 6, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Anyone else have a suggestion for peace between Israel & the Palestinians?  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!



I have lots of ideas, but none are particularly new!

I'd like to see the Israeli government endorse the concept of a two party state. 

I'd like to see both sides genuinely commit to peace and to finding a solution. 

I'd like to see both sides operate with respect for religion and ethnicity.


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## JStone (May 6, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Anyone else have a suggestion for peace between Israel & the Palestinians?  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!
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Burn every quran! 

United States President John Quincy Adams


> The precept of the koran is perpetual war against all who deny that Mahomet is the prophet of God. The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute; the victorious may be appeased by a false and delusive promise of peace; and the faithful follower of the prophet, may submit to the imperious necessities of defeat: but the command to propagate the Moslem creed by the sword is always obligatory, when it can be made effective. The commands of the prophet may be performed alike, by fraud, or by force (Blunt, 29:274).
> Amazon.com: Memoir of the life of John Quincy Adams. (9781240038398): Josiah Quincy: Books


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## Saigon (May 6, 2012)

Stone - 

Please don't spam threads. 

It's a discussion forum - either participate in the discussion or allow others to do so.


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## American Horse (May 6, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> If I were prime minister of Israel the first thing I would do is acknowledge that Hamas is the duly elected government of the Palestinian people.  No peace can be obtained by just ignoring Hamas as a terrorist organization.  I would invite all of Hamas leaders to Tel Aviv for peace negotiations.  I would provide them with the most lavish housing & fine dining available throughout this historic event.  After an introductory dinner while we are all seated I would make an announcement to Hamas --- Welcome & thank you for coming. * From now on, each time you kill an Israeli, Israel will retaliate by killing 10,000 Palestinians. * Then I would open up the meeting for peace negotiations.  What could be more fair & ethical than to let Hamas decide how many, if any, Palestinians Israel will have to kill for peace.



The reality is to get a single Israeli freed by negotiations, the Israelis have to agree to free scores of Palestinian terrorists.


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## JStone (May 6, 2012)

Winston Churchill's observations of the muslimes in 1899.  Then and now...


> How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
> 
> The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
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## Saigon (May 6, 2012)

American Horse said:


> The reality is to get a single Israeli freed by negotiations, the Israelis have to agree to free scores of Palestinian terrorists.



It does seem that way, but it's worth keeping in mind that a lot of Palestinians in Israeli prisons did little wrong to begin with. There has been a lot of discussion in Israel about how many people are locked up withour trial for things like protesting or waving a Palestinian flag. 

It seems to have become a bit of a game - Israel locks dozens of teenagers up so that it can release them in the next prisoner exchange. 

No doubt some of the prirsoners are complete scum, but the IDF has always said it will its troops back home no matter what, and that's a very popular policy in Israel.


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## JStone (May 6, 2012)

Islime must be destroyed

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWIDZ7Jpdqg]Hamas - "We desire death like you desire life" - YouTube[/ame]


Winston Churchill...


> How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
> 
> The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
> 
> ...


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## MJB12741 (May 6, 2012)

"Two party state."  So are you referring to a one state solution?




Saigon said:


> MJB12741 said:
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> > Anyone else have a suggestion for peace between Israel & the Palestinians?  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!
> ...


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## Lipush (May 6, 2012)

Saigon said:


> American Horse said:
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> > The reality is to get a single Israeli freed by negotiations, the Israelis have to agree to free scores of Palestinian terrorists.
> ...



The prisoners that went free in the Hamas negotiations were not prisoners who did "little" to start with. those were prisoners who butchered Israeli women and children. the "small criminals" are an entire different issue that should be delt with with a completely different glove.

The policy of prisoners exchange is a policy that is based on culture and values. the Israeli government released a prisoner who tortured a little girl to death and shot her sibling and father infront of her mother's eyes. this man walked free like some hero, in exchange of bodies of Israeli soldeirs that were captured in Lebanon. and they were not even alive. So naturally, the price for Gilad Shalit was 100 times higher.

the Israeli society see the IDF soldier as something SACRED, therefor there is no "red line" so far, for what is willing to pay to bring the soldiers back. but that policy is at times need to be changed. The Talmud states clearly (part of the Hebrew law which courts take to mind at many times) that a peironer should be exchanged at his price only, and not higher, because the balance breaks otherwise. Besides, it is not reasonable that all terrorists will go free everytime they feel like taking someone in captivity. Israel doesn't have any strict clear policy stated by law or document when comming to negotiating with terrorists, like the USA does


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## MJB12741 (May 6, 2012)

I wonder how many Palestinian terrorists Israel exchanges for just one Israeli reunite to attack Israeli's again?





Lipush said:


> Saigon said:
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> > American Horse said:
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## Saigon (May 6, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> "Two party state."  So are you referring to a one state solution?



I think a two party state is more practical. 

If neither side can leave peacefully with the other, then let them live separately. 

It needn't be that complicated, either: Palestine gets Gaza and 80% of the West Bank, with land trades for the remaining 20%. Limited right of return. International monitoring of borders and ports. A neutral zone for the Old City. Both countries recognise the other, and Palestine accepts limits on its military powers.


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## JStone (May 6, 2012)

*Founding Father of the United States of America John Adams *


> I will insist that the Hebrews have done more to civilize men than any other nation. If I were an atheist, and believed in blind eternal fate, I should still believe that fate had ordained the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations. If I were an atheist of the other sect, who believe or pretend to believe that all is ordered by chance, I should believe that chance had ordered the Jews to preserve and propagate to all mankind the doctrine of a supreme, intelligent, wise, almighty sovereign of the universe, which I believe to be the great essential principle of all morality, and consequently of all civilization
> Amazon.com: Roots Of American Order (9781882926992): Russell Kirk, Forrest McDonald: Books


 
*United States President John Quincy Adams*


> The precept of the koran is perpetual war against all who deny that Mahomet is the prophet of God. The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute; the victorious may be appeased by a false and delusive promise of peace; and the faithful follower of the prophet, may submit to the imperious necessities of defeat: but the command to propagate the Moslem creed by the sword is always obligatory, when it can be made effective. The commands of the prophet may be performed alike, by fraud, or by force .
> Amazon.com: Memoir of the life of John Quincy Adams. (9781240038398): Josiah Quincy: Books


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## MJB12741 (May 7, 2012)

There can be no "two party state" living in peace in Israel.  And no surrounding Arab country will grant the Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Do you think maybe Mecca would be a nice place for a Palestinian State?




Saigon said:


> MJB12741 said:
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> > "Two party state."  So are you referring to a one state solution?
> ...


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## JStone (May 7, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> There can be no "two party state" living in peace in Israel.  And no surrounding Arab country will grant the Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Do you think maybe Mecca would be a nice place for a Palestinian State?
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There is no palestine nor palestinians.  The Romans invented the word palestine to call Israel during the Roman Empire.

Last time I checked, the Roman Empire collapsed centuries ago or does Italy own Israel today? 

They're just unachieving arabs like the rest of the arab world.


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## Saigon (May 7, 2012)

Stone - 

I did actually explain this to you the other day, and I noticed you completely ignored my post. I'll try again, but please do read the comment and give it some consideration. 

You will never understand this topic until you understand this point. 

The word 'Palestinian' is older than the word 'German' or 'Italian'. 

In many, many countries, nation states were formed across what had previusly been principalities, regions or kingdoms. People who used to call themselves Genoese, Piedmontese or Sicilian became Italian only 170 years ago, just as Prussians and Saxons became Germans. 

Do you imagine Germany should be anulled as a concept?

What matters is that families can trace their history back in German cities for 1,000+ years, just as they can in Jericho, Jerusalem and Jaffa. People have come and gone in that time, but genetic testing has proven that they are essentially one people on that land. 

Please acknowledge this point. 

If ou don't, I'll merely C&P on to every thread where you post the same mistake.


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## JStone (May 7, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Stone -
> 
> I did actually explain this to you the other day, and I noticed you completely ignored my post. I'll try again, but please do read the comment and give it some consideration.
> 
> ...



You're allowed to be uneducated.  It's the only thing you excel at.

Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen, Professor of Religion, Boston University; Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University; Diploma in Theology, Oxford University 


> The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish rebel] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure. Its result was not: [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.
> 
> *The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory. And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.*
> Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews by Paula Fredriksen - Book - Random House


 
PBS...


> In 70 AD, after a siege marked by starvation and terror crucifixions, the Roman army broke through the walls of Jerusalem.  Not only did they kill thousands of Jews, they laid waste to the Temple, the only place on Earth, according to Biblical law, where Jews could worship God.
> 
> It was the death of the religion of Priests and sacrifices described by the Hebrew Bible.  But, it would not be the death of Judaism.  In the years ahead, some of the greatest religious minds in history would struggle to reinvent the religion of Moses and David.
> 
> *But, the Jews would be forced to work during a period of almost inconceivable bloodshed and turmoil.  They would watch their people be expelled from Jerusalem on pain of death and see the name of their homeland changed from Judea to Palestine*


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLypbbijk2I&feature=relmfu]The Gifts of the Jews - YouTube[/ame]


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## Saigon (May 7, 2012)

Well, this is much like the other thread, isn't it?

You are wrong, you know that you are wrong, but you refuse to admit it and refuse to learn anything that might be useful for you in future discussions. 

It's a shame - but given that you seem to be motivated entirely by racial hatred, it isn't surprising.


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## JStone (May 7, 2012)

Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen, Professor of Religion, Boston University; Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University; Diploma in Theology, Oxford University 


> The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish rebel] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure. Its result was not: [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.
> 
> *The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory. And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.*
> Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews by Paula Fredriksen - Book - Random House


 
PBS...


> In 70 AD, after a siege marked by starvation and terror crucifixions, the Roman army broke through the walls of Jerusalem.  Not only did they kill thousands of Jews, they laid waste to the Temple, the only place on Earth, according to Biblical law, where Jews could worship God.
> 
> It was the death of the religion of Priests and sacrifices described by the Hebrew Bible.  But, it would not be the death of Judaism.  In the years ahead, some of the greatest religious minds in history would struggle to reinvent the religion of Moses and David.
> 
> *But, the Jews would be forced to work during a period of almost inconceivable bloodshed and turmoil.  They would watch their people be expelled from Jerusalem on pain of death and see the name of their homeland changed from Judea to Palestine*


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLypbbijk2I&feature=relmfu]The Gifts of the Jews - YouTube[/ame]

PBS...


> Specializing in the history of early Christianity, Paula Fredriksen is author of two books and over a dozen articles on early Christianity. Among her numerous awards and honors are a National Endowment for the Humanities grant for University Professors and a Lady Davis Visiting Professorship of Ancient Christianity at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. Her second book, From Jesus to Christ: The Origins of the New Testament Images of Jesus, received the Yale Press Governors' Award for Best Book in 1988. Fredriksen holds a Ph.D. in history of religions, ancient christianity, and Greco-Roman religions from Princeton University and a theology diploma from Oxford University. She served as historical consultant for the BBC production The Lives of Jesus and was a featured speaker and historical consultant for U.S. News and World Report's "The Life and Times of Jesus."
> Biographies | From Jesus To Christ - The First Christians | FRONTLINE | PBS


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## Lipush (May 7, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> I wonder how many Palestinian terrorists Israel exchanges for just one Israeli reunite to attack Israeli's again?
> 
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For Gilad shalit 1027 killers were freed. For Ehud Goldvaser and Eldad Regev were freed I believe 5.


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## Lipush (May 7, 2012)

Saigon said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > "Two party state."  So are you referring to a one state solution?
> ...



I don't think that expelling more Jews from their houses will be a great thing. Last time it happened it made the situation worse, not better.


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## MJB12741 (May 7, 2012)

Why does Israel allow wounded Palestinian terrorists to get well in Israeli hospitals so they can attack & kill even more Israeli's?  This entire Zionist agenda has to go.


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## Saigon (May 7, 2012)

Lipush said:


> I don't think that expelling more Jews from their houses will be a great thing. Last time it happened it made the situation worse, not better.



No, neither do I, but neither do I support Palestinians and Christians being expelled from their houses (i.e. around Gilo). That has definitely made the situation worse.

Jews have lived in Western Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and Galilee for thousands of years and have a right to that land. 

Palestinians have lived in East Jerusalem, Akko and Jaffa for thousands of years and have a right to that land. 

The only solution rests with mutual recognition of that fairly simple fact - the solution is prevented by racism and hatred on both sides, much as we see on this board. It's also interesting that most people opposing a peaeful solution don't have to live with the war!


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## JStone (May 8, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think that expelling more Jews from their houses will be a great thing. Last time it happened it made the situation worse, not better.
> ...







Eminent Archaeologist and Historian, former Fulbright Scholar Eric Cline...


> The claims that modern Palestinians are descended from the ancient Jebusites are made without any supporting evidence.  Historians and archaeologists have generally concluded that most, if not all, modern Palestinians are probably more closely related to the Arabs of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordan and other countries than they are to the ancient Jebusites, Canaanites or Philistines.
> Oxford University Press: Oxford Handbook of the Bronze Age Aegean: Eric H. Cline


 
Rashid Khalidi, Professor of Modern Arab Studies, Columbia University, Director of Columbia University's Middle East Institute and advisor to various Arab groups...


> There is a relatively recent tradition which argues that Palestinian nationalism has deep historical roots.  As with other national movements, extreme advocates of this view anachronistically read back into the history of Palestine over the past few centuries a nationalist consciousness and identity that are in fact relatively modern.  Among the manifestations of this outlook are a predilection for seeing in peoples such as the Canaanites, Jebusites and Philistines the lineal ancestors of the modern Palestinians.
> Amazon.com: Palestinian Identity (9780231105156): Rashid Khalidi: Books


 
Eminent Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis



> By [Arabs] bypassing the Biblical Israelites and claiming kinship with the Canaanites, it is possible to assert a historical claim antedating the biblical promise and possession put forward by the Jews.  This line of argument isaccompanied by the common practice in Arab countries, in textbook, museums and exhibitions of minimizing the Jewish role in ancient history or, more frequently, presenting it in very negative terms.
> 
> In terms of scholarship as distinct from politics, there is no evidence whatsoever for the assertion that the Canaanites were Arabs.
> Amazon.com: Political Words and Ideas in Islam (9781558764248): Bernard Lewis: Books



Eminent Historian Sir Martin Gilbert...


> On August 18 Yasir Arafat, speaking as head of the Palestinian National Authority in Gaza and Jericho, told Arab youngsters at a summer camp, "Those of you who lit the intifada fire must now act as defenders of this young state, whose capital is Jerusalem. It is Bir Salem [the fountain of Salem]. Salem was one of the Canaanite Kings, one of our forefathers. This city is the capital of our children and our children's children. If not for this belief and conviction of the Palestinian nation, this people would have been erased from the face of the earth, as were so many other nations."
> 
> King Salem is a newcomer on the historical scene. No such Canaanite, Jebusite or Philistine king is known to history.
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0041CNUIC/?tag=ff0d01-20



"Palestinian" Hamas Minister of the Interior Fathi Hammad, Al-Hekma TV [Egypt]: "Half of the Palestiniains are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis"


> Brothers, there are 1.8 million of us in Gaza. Allah be praised, we all have Arab roots and every Palestinian in Gaza and throughout Palestine can prove his Arab roots--whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere.
> 
> Personally, half my family is Egyptian.  We are all like that.
> 
> ...


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## Saigon (May 8, 2012)

Stone - 

Do you ever step back from your posting and wondering what you are trying to achieve?

You post obsessively about a country you have never been to and will never go to. 

You quote from books you clearly have not read.

You post statements you know full well are false.

You refuse to answer questions and refuse to acknowledge facts. 

Do you consider yourself an honest person normally?

I don't mean this is as an insult, but reading your comments here the last week, you come across like someone around twelve years old. I don't think I have ever seen such weak posting.


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## Saigon (May 8, 2012)

And the response is....more spamming. 

Well, I'll give you one thing, Stone - you clearly know when you are beaten!


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## JStone (May 8, 2012)

Eminent Archaeologist and Historian, former Fulbright Scholar Eric Cline...


> The claims that modern Palestinians are descended from the ancient Jebusites are made without any supporting evidence.  Historians and archaeologists have generally concluded that most, if not all, modern Palestinians are probably more closely related to the Arabs of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordan and other countries than they are to the ancient Jebusites, Canaanites or Philistines.
> Oxford University Press: Oxford Handbook of the Bronze Age Aegean: Eric H. Cline


 
Rashid Khalidi, Professor of Modern Arab Studies, Columbia University, Director of Columbia University's Middle East Institute and advisor to various Arab groups...


> There is a relatively recent tradition which argues that Palestinian nationalism has deep historical roots.  As with other national movements, extreme advocates of this view anachronistically read back into the history of Palestine over the past few centuries a nationalist consciousness and identity that are in fact relatively modern.  Among the manifestations of this outlook are a predilection for seeing in peoples such as the Canaanites, Jebusites and Philistines the lineal ancestors of the modern Palestinians.
> Amazon.com: Palestinian Identity (9780231105156): Rashid Khalidi: Books


 
Eminent Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis


> By [Arabs] bypassing the Biblical Israelites and claiming kinship with the Canaanites, it is possible to assert a historical claim antedating the biblical promise and possession put forward by the Jews.  This line of argument isaccompanied by the common practice in Arab countries, in textbook, museums and exhibitions of minimizing the Jewish role in ancient history or, more frequently, presenting it in very negative terms.
> 
> In terms of scholarship as distinct from politics, there is no evidence whatsoever for the assertion that the Canaanites were Arabs.
> Amazon.com: Political Words and Ideas in Islam (9781558764248): Bernard Lewis: Books


 
Eminent Historian Sir Martin Gilbert...


> On August 18 Yasir Arafat, speaking as head of the Palestinian National Authority in Gaza and Jericho, told Arab youngsters at a summer camp, "Those of you who lit the intifada fire must now act as defenders of this young state, whose capital is Jerusalem. It is Bir Salem [the fountain of Salem]. Salem was one of the Canaanite Kings, one of our forefathers. This city is the capital of our children and our children's children. If not for this belief and conviction of the Palestinian nation, this people would have been erased from the face of the earth, as were so many other nations."
> 
> King Salem is a newcomer on the historical scene. No such Canaanite, Jebusite or Philistine king is known to history.
> Amazon.com: Martin Gilbert'sThe Routledge Atlas of Jewish History (Routledge Historical Atlases) [Hardcover](2010): M., (Author) Gilbert: Books



"Palestinian" Hamas Minister of the Interior Fathi Hammad, Al-Hekma TV [Egypt]: "Half of the Palestiniains are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis"


> Brothers, there are 1.8 million of us in Gaza. Allah be praised, we all have Arab roots and every Palestinian in Gaza and throughout Palestine can prove his Arab roots--whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere.
> 
> Personally, half my family is Egyptian.  We are all like that.
> 
> ...



*PBS: Civilization and the Jews *


> The interaction of Jewish history and Western civilization successively assumed different forms. In the Biblical and Ancient periods, Israel was an integral part of the Near Eastern and classical world, which gave birth to Western civilization. It shared the traditions of ancient Mesopotamia and the rest of that world with regard to it&#8217;s own beginning; it benefited from the decline of Egypt and the other great Near Eastern empires to emerge as a nation in it&#8217;s own right; it asserted it&#8217;s claim to the divinely promised Land of Israel
> PBS - Heritage


 
*Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel* The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum 



> In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.
> Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.



* Harvard University Semitic Museum: Jerusalem During The Reign Of King Hezekiah--New Exhibition At The Semitic Museum Re-Creates Numerous Aspects Of Ancient Israel* Harvard Gazette: Jerusalem during the reign of King Hezekiah 



> The Semitic Museum has installed a new exhibition that brings the world of biblical Israel into vivid, three-dimensional reality. "The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine" immerses the viewer in Israelite daily life around the time of King Hezekiah (8th century B.C.), creating an experiential environment based on the latest archaeological, textual, and historical research.
> The centerpiece of the exhibition is a full-scale Israelite house, open on one side, filled with authentic ancient artifacts that show how life was lived by common inhabitants of ancient Jerusalem. Agricultural tools, a cooking area, and a stall occupied by a single, scruffy ram fill the ground floor of the cube-shaped, mud-brick structure, which, thankfully, is not olfactorily authentic. The upper story, reached by a ladder, is devoted to eating and sleeping.



*Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel* The Archaeology of Ancient Israel - Ben-Tor, Amnon; Greenberg, R. - Yale University Press



> In this lavishly illustrated book some of Israel's foremost archaeologists present a thorough, up-to-date, and readily accessible survey of early life in the land of the Bible, from the Neolithic era (eighth millennium B.C.E.) to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. It will be a delightful and informative resource for anyone who has ever wanted to know more about the religious, scientific, or historical background of the region.



*PBS Nova *...


> In the banks of the Nile in southern Egypt in 1896, British archaeologisit Flinders Petrie unearthed one of the most important discoveries in biblical archaeology known as the Merneptah Stele.  Merneptah's stele announces the entrance on the world stage of a People named Israel.
> 
> The Merneptah Stele is powerful evidence that a People called the Israelites are living in Canaan over 3000 years ago
> 
> Dr. Donald Redford, Egyptologist and archaeologist: The Merneptah Stele is priceless evidence for the presence of an ethnical group called Israel in Canaan.




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvg2EZAEw5c]1/13 The Bible's Buried Secrets (NOVA PBS) - YouTube[/ame]


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## P F Tinmore (May 8, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Lipush said:
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> > I don't think that expelling more Jews from their houses will be a great thing. Last time it happened it made the situation worse, not better.
> ...



The fact is that Christians, Muslims, and Jews all have the right to live in the holy land.

The problem is that the Zionists are a bunch of pigs who want it all for themselves. There has been war ever since and it is their war. They started it and they are the the only ones who can stop it.


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## Lipush (May 8, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Why does Israel allow wounded Palestinian terrorists to get well in Israeli hospitals so they can attack & kill even more Israeli's?  This entire Zionist agenda has to go.



Have you heard of the story of Muhammad Abu Mustafa? a classic example of your question. Yet it would have been extremely immoral if the Israeli society refused to treat him in an Israeli hospitals.

"For whoever keeps one soul, like kept a world of its own" - Babylonian Talmud.


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## Lipush (May 8, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Lipush said:
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> > I don't think that expelling more Jews from their houses will be a great thing. Last time it happened it made the situation worse, not better.
> ...



Not one of you have to live with the war, dear sir. That is why you don't see that all the solutions suggested are not worth the time you type them on. 

That's just how it is.


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## Lipush (May 8, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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We don't "want it all". The Palestinians are the ones who want it all. All Jews in the sea and all Arab Muslims in "Palestine".

We only want what is rightfully ours.

All I want is the fields that were burned and the houses which were destroyed in the 30's. Those fields belonged to my family. the houses and property belonged to my family. till the day she died my grandmother remembered her ranch when she was happy in, but was expelled by Arab terrorists who she saw as older brothers. Who will give that back to us?


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## P F Tinmore (May 8, 2012)

Lipush said:


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Where was that ranch and how long had they lived there?


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## Lipush (May 8, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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The ranch was in central Israel, the lived there since late 1800's.


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## ima (May 8, 2012)

Lipush said:


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She wasn't your granny, you were adopted.


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## Lipush (May 8, 2012)

ima said:


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Why are adopted children different from any regular ones?


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## ima (May 8, 2012)

Lipush said:


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It's in the genes. As a white person, I can't get adopted by Martin Luther King's daughter and then claim to be a descendant of him, that's absurd.


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## Lipush (May 8, 2012)

ima said:


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You sound really shallow here. if you yourself happen to know about connection between a grandparent and a child, you probably know that genes have absolutely nothing to do with it. they didn't love me less or considered me less "belonged' to the family. actually, even more. I was the only person who was not blood connected to my grandparents, but I was the only one who saw them every day, for hours. the other grandchildren didn't know them as well as I did. Now my grandfather is almost 94, God bless his soul, and we were all envited to a family reuinion. my cousin called him and tried to talk with him but he simply looked at her with a weird face. She asked if he suddenly has alzheimer, and I looked at her with a WTF face, told her that it because of his hearing peoblem. 'Don't you know that he has that for almost 4 years now? where do you live?' that anonyed me.

biology is just biology. It doesn't buy love or family. who cares about blood. it's just blood.


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## Lipush (May 8, 2012)

ima said:


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I'm Latina Mestizo, My parants roots came from Europe, if you look at us you can clearly say that I don't belong to the family. 

The Israeli law, and morale law, doesn't make any difference between an adopted child and a regular child. They are my parents, I am their daughter. I feel much connected to them than to the hooker who happened to give birth to me, and the basterd father who didn't give a crap. For 20 years I belonged to that family, who are you or anyone to say i don't. That's just not true


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## P F Tinmore (May 8, 2012)

Lipush said:


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It was in central Israel in the '30s?

You know that if it were not for the Zionist invasion, you would probably still live there.


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## Lipush (May 8, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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In the 30's? Zionist invasion?!

the masscare of Jews and Britians by Arabs had nothing to do with Zionism, the Zionists who enforced themselves where not yet an issue. 

The progroms in the 30's by Arabs were pure bloodlust and the desire to hurt Jews.

You often blaimed raped woman for seducing her rapist?


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## P F Tinmore (May 8, 2012)

Lipush said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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The Zionist invasion was in full bloom when the British came to Palestine with the Balfour declaration in its pocket.

Anyone who tells you that the Palestinian attacks in the '20s and '30s wasn't because of the Zionist invasion is feeding you a line of crap.


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## P F Tinmore (May 8, 2012)

Lipush said:


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> ...but was expelled by Arab terrorists who she saw as older brothers.



Interesting, what changed that?


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## Lipush (May 8, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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Once the progrom started, the Arab workers in our family's ranch didn't care that they lived with them and ate in the same plate as them. They still attacked their house and fields, to "join the party" of the rest of Arab attackers.

since then my grandmother never strusted a single Arab she came in contact with.


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## JStone (May 8, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
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"Rep System Guidelines: Our reputation system is designed to provide a feedback and credibility mechanism."

P F Tinmore Rep Power: 0
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,512
"PF Tinmore is off the scale"



Eminent Historian Sir Martin Gilbert, Author of 10 Books on Middle East History and History of Jerusalem

Jerusalem became the capital of the first Jewish kingdom in 1004 BC, over 3000 years ago.  With the brief exception of the Crusader period, no other non-Jewish ruling power of Jerusalem made the city a capital but it was consistently a capital for the Jews.  Driven into partial exile by Nebuchadnezzar in 586 BC, the Jews returned fifty years later and rebuilt Jerusalem as their capital.  It was their capital, too, under the Maccabees.  The unity of the city achieved in 1967, then, was more than a quirk of military geography.  It was the fulfillment of unbroken historical longings.

In 1210, following the defeat of the Crusaders, groups of Jews began to return Jerusalem.  Henceforth, without interruption, and in every decade, individual Jews and groups of Jews reached the city from the Maghreb [north Africa] and elsewhere forming an ever-growing community.  Driven out by the Tartar invasion of 1244, they had returned by 1250.  Three times a day the Jews repeated in their prayers, "And to Jerusalem Thy city mayest thou return to mercy, and dwell in its midst as Thou hast spoken, and rebuild it soon in our days for evermore

Areas from which some 300 Rabbis travelled to Jerusalem, Acre and Ramla in 1210 AD, to strengthen the Jewish communities weakened by the Crusader massacres and expulsions.  Jews are known to have traveled from throughout the region to Jerusalem [after 1267], settling permanently and forming by 1841 the largest single community in Jerusalem.    

1000 AD: Jews take part in the defence of Haifa against the Crusades

1099:AD: Jews take part in the defence of Jerusalem against the Crusaders 

1211: Several Rabbis from France and England settle in Jerusalem 

1267: Maimonides arrives in Jerusalem and establishes a synagogue .  During the next 500 years, Jerusalem is reinstated as a centre of Jewish learning.

In 1500, there were an estimated 10,000 Jews living in the Safed region

1563: Establishment of a Hebrew printing press in Jerusalem, the first printing press on the Asian Continent

By 1880 the Jews formed the majority of the population Jerusalem      

During the 17th and 18th centuries, many Jerusalem Jews, scholars and rabbis, travelled from Jerusalem to teach in Jewish communities elsewhere, and also to seek alms and charity for the poorer members of their own community.  there was also a regular movement of families, in both directions, between Jerusalem and several towns of the eastern Mediterranean region

Jewish villages in Israel 1855--1914...

Deganya
Jerusalem
Safed
Tiberias
Kinneret
Merhavya
Zikhron Yacov
Ekron
Mikveh Israel
Rishon le-Zion
Ben Shemen
Rehovot
Hulda
Kastinia
Artuf
Hebron
Ruhama
Beer-Toviya
Hartuv
Gedera
Kfar Uriya
Motza
Nes Ziona
Beer Yaakov
Nahalat Yehuda
Mahane Yehuda
Ein Ganim
Petah Tikvah
Kfar Sava
Kfar Mahal
Hadera
Gan Shmuel
Nahliel
Karkur
Givat Ada
Bat Shelomo
Tantura
Shefeiya
Yavneel
Beit Gan
Kfar Tova
Poriya
Sejera
Menahemya
Beitanya
Mizpa
Kfar Hittim
Bnei Yehuda
Mishmar Hayarden
Ayelet Hashashar
Ein Zeitim
Metulla
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/GilbertsThe-Routledge-History-Historical-Hardcover/dp/B0041CNUIC/ref=sr_1_24?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1333126978&sr=1-24]Amazon.com: Martin Gilbert&#39;sThe Routledge Atlas of Jewish History (Routledge Historical Atlases) [Hardcover](2010): M., (Author) Gilbert: Books[/ame]


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## P F Tinmore (May 8, 2012)

Lipush said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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Palestinians have said the same thing. They had been friends for years then the Jews showed up at their door with guns.

What could have caused that?


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## JStone (May 8, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


"Rep System Guidelines: Our reputation system is designed to provide a feedback and credibility mechanism."

P F Tinmore Rep Power: 0
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,512
"PF Tinmore is off the scale"


Eminent Historian Sir Martin Gilbert, Author of 10 Books on Middle East History and History of Jerusalem

Jerusalem became the capital of the first Jewish kingdom in 1004 BC, over 3000 years ago.  With the brief exception of the Crusader period, no other non-Jewish ruling power of Jerusalem made the city a capital but it was consistently a capital for the Jews.  Driven into partial exile by Nebuchadnezzar in 586 BC, the Jews returned fifty years later and rebuilt Jerusalem as their capital.  It was their capital, too, under the Maccabees.  The unity of the city achieved in 1967, then, was more than a quirk of military geography.  It was the fulfillment of unbroken historical longings.

In 1210, following the defeat of the Crusaders, groups of Jews began to return Jerusalem.  Henceforth, without interruption, and in every decade, individual Jews and groups of Jews reached the city from the Maghreb [north Africa] and elsewhere forming an ever-growing community.  Driven out by the Tartar invasion of 1244, they had returned by 1250.  Three times a day the Jews repeated in their prayers, "And to Jerusalem Thy city mayest thou return to mercy, and dwell in its midst as Thou hast spoken, and rebuild it soon in our days for evermore

Areas from which some 300 Rabbis travelled to Jerusalem, Acre and Ramla in 1210 AD, to strengthen the Jewish communities weakened by the Crusader massacres and expulsions.  Jews are known to have traveled from throughout the region to Jerusalem [after 1267], settling permanently and forming by 1841 the largest single community in Jerusalem.    

1000 AD: Jews take part in the defence of Haifa against the Crusades

1099:AD: Jews take part in the defence of Jerusalem against the Crusaders 

1211: Several Rabbis from France and England settle in Jerusalem 

1267: Maimonides arrives in Jerusalem and establishes a synagogue .  During the next 500 years, Jerusalem is reinstated as a centre of Jewish learning.

In 1500, there were an estimated 10,000 Jews living in the Safed region

1563: Establishment of a Hebrew printing press in Jerusalem, the first printing press on the Asian Continent

By 1880 the Jews formed the majority of the population Jerusalem      

During the 17th and 18th centuries, many Jerusalem Jews, scholars and rabbis, travelled from Jerusalem to teach in Jewish communities elsewhere, and also to seek alms and charity for the poorer members of their own community.  there was also a regular movement of families, in both directions, between Jerusalem and several towns of the eastern Mediterranean region

Jewish villages in Israel 1855--1914...

Deganya
Jerusalem
Safed
Tiberias
Kinneret
Merhavya
Zikhron Yacov
Ekron
Mikveh Israel
Rishon le-Zion
Ben Shemen
Rehovot
Hulda
Kastinia
Artuf
Hebron
Ruhama
Beer-Toviya
Hartuv
Gedera
Kfar Uriya
Motza
Nes Ziona
Beer Yaakov
Nahalat Yehuda
Mahane Yehuda
Ein Ganim
Petah Tikvah
Kfar Sava
Kfar Mahal
Hadera
Gan Shmuel
Nahliel
Karkur
Givat Ada
Bat Shelomo
Tantura
Shefeiya
Yavneel
Beit Gan
Kfar Tova
Poriya
Sejera
Menahemya
Beitanya
Mizpa
Kfar Hittim
Bnei Yehuda
Mishmar Hayarden
Ayelet Hashashar
Ein Zeitim
Metulla
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/GilbertsThe-Routledge-History-Historical-Hardcover/dp/B0041CNUIC/ref=sr_1_24?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1333126978&sr=1-24]Amazon.com: Martin Gilbert&#39;sThe Routledge Atlas of Jewish History (Routledge Historical Atlases) [Hardcover](2010): M., (Author) Gilbert: Books[/ame]


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## MJB12741 (May 8, 2012)

Another brilliant unbiased replay by Tinmore.  "Zionists are a bunch of pigs."  So tell us Tinmore with your wealth of wisdom, are Zionist pigs kosher?




P F Tinmore said:


> Saigon said:
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## P F Tinmore (May 8, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Another brilliant unbiased replay by Tinmore.  "Zionists are a bunch of pigs."  So tell us Tinmore with your wealth of wisdom, are Zionist pigs kosher?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That was just a figure of speech defining their actions.

It wasn't meant to be that apes and pigs thing.


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## JStone (May 8, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Another brilliant unbiased replay by Tinmore.  "Zionists are a bunch of pigs."  So tell us Tinmore with your wealth of wisdom, are Zionist pigs kosher?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



"Rep System Guidelines: Our reputation system is designed to provide a feedback and credibility mechanism."

P F Tinmore Rep Power: 0
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,512
"PF Tinmore is off the scale"


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## ima (May 8, 2012)

Lipush said:


> ima said:
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So you're not a descendant of Jews like you claim, that's all.
And I was just saying that Jews won't ever consider you as a real Jew. Jus' sayin'.


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## Saigon (May 8, 2012)

Ima - 

I think it is up to Lipush what she feels she is, and where she feels she belongs. 

If she lives in Israel and feels Israeli and Jewish - who are we to say she is not?


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## MJB12741 (May 8, 2012)

If we go back far enough in our geneology, most Christians have a Jewish bloodline.  The same as Jesus, John the Baptist & the apostles.  To hate Jews is to hate their own heritage.


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## Saigon (May 8, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> If we go back far enough in our geneology, most Christians have a Jewish bloodline.  The same as Jesus, John the Baptist & the apostles.  To hate Jews is to hate their own heritage.



No, that isn't true at all. 

While there is an enormous coultural influence from Judaism in Christian/European culture, the genetic influence is limited to areas which have had a strong Ashkenazim community, e.g. Cracow, Budapest. 

The impact of Jewish genes in areas like Scandinavia or Iberia is virtually nil.


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## MJB12741 (May 8, 2012)

Eh, excuse me but I believe I said "most Christians."  Does Scandinavia or Iberia represent "most Christians"?




Saigon said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > If we go back far enough in our geneology, most Christians have a Jewish bloodline.  The same as Jesus, John the Baptist & the apostles.  To hate Jews is to hate their own heritage.
> ...


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## Saigon (May 8, 2012)

MJB - 

No one area represents "most Christians". 

But Iberia and Scandinavia are traditionally Christian societies in which there is virtualy no Jewish genetic impact on the gene pool at all. I can think of pletny of other examples as well...how much Jewish genetic heritage is there in Chile, Brazil, Guatemala, New Zealand, Flores or Uganda?

These societies all have a Jewish population of less than 1% of the total population, thus I think we can assume they have not exactly transformed the gene pool. 

Even in cities like Cracow and Budapest, the 'interbreeding' between Jews and other local inhabitants was very limited, even before the ghettoization of those cities.


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## JStone (May 8, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> If we go back far enough in our geneology, most Christians have a Jewish bloodline.  The same as Jesus, John the Baptist & the apostles.  To hate Jews is to hate their own heritage.



Jesus was Jewish.  John the Baptist was Jewish.  The Apostle Paul was Jewish.  The authors of the 4 Gospels were likely all Jewish.

Baptism was originally a Jewish ritual of purification

For about the first 100 years after Jesus's death ca 30 CE, the Jesus movement was mostly a Jewish sect.  Those wishing to follow Jesus were first required to convert to Judaism.


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## Saigon (May 8, 2012)

JStone said:


> For about the first 100 years after Jesus's death ca 30 CE, the Jesus movement was mostly a Jewish sect.  Those wishing to follow Jesus were first required to convert to Judaism



Even in Rome? 

How many members of the court of Constantine were Jewish?

You guys seem to be figuring that Jesus, Paul and the apostles slept with several hundreds of thousands of women....!


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## JStone (May 8, 2012)

Saigon said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > For about the first 100 years after Jesus's death ca 30 CE, the Jesus movement was mostly a Jewish sect.  Those wishing to follow Jesus were first required to convert to Judaism
> ...



Er, Rome occupied Israel.  Constantine converted in the 4th century CE


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## Saigon (May 8, 2012)

How many members of the court of Constantine were Jewish?

How many Christians in Rome were Jewish?

Since you mention it - how many Roman Christians in Palestine were Jewish?


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## MJB12741 (May 8, 2012)

Do you deny that Jesus, John the Baptist, Paul, the apostles & all their followers were Jews?  I repeat --- If you go back far enough in Christian geneology, "most" Christians have a Jewish bloodline.  And to hate the Jews is to hate their own heritage. 




Saigon said:


> MJB -
> 
> No one area represents "most Christians".
> 
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## JStone (May 8, 2012)

Saigon said:


> How many members of the court of Constantine were Jewish?
> 
> How many Christians in Rome were Jewish?
> 
> Since you mention it - how many Roman Christians in Palestine were Jewish?



At it's highpoint, approx. 10 percent of the Roman Empire was Jewish, or, about 7 million.  Of this, about 4 million were Jewish by birth and the balance Jewish converts.

Palestine is not a legitimate historical or Biblical name.  The correct name of the land was Israel or Judah or Judea.  "Jew" is derived from Judah.

The Romans renamed Israel "palestine" in the second century CE in retribution for the Bar Kokhba Revolt in an attempt to erase 1000 years of Jewish nationhood, in addition to Hadrian renaming Jerusalem Aelia Capitolina, named after himself, Publius Aelius Hadrianus.


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## Saigon (May 8, 2012)

Stone - 

I have explained to you twice why Palestine is as legitimate a term as German or Italian. 

Please post honestly, and ideally also please acknowledge when you have been proven wrong. Posting what you know to be false is simply lying. 

The term Israel is entirely 'correct', and dates back thousands of years. It seems amazing that a self-professed expert doesn't know where the word Israel comes from. It in no way conflicts with the term Judea.

Please provide proof of your claim that 10% of the Roman Empire was Jewish, and I'll take a look at it. 

I think we both know that it is nonsense.


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## JStone (May 8, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Stone -
> 
> I have explained to you twice why Palestine is as legitimate a term as German or Italian.
> 
> ...



Read, learn...

Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen, Professor of Religion, Boston University; Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University; Diploma in Theology, Oxford University 


> The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish rebel] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure. Its result was not: [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.
> 
> *The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory. And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.*
> Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews by Paula Fredriksen - Book - Random House


 
PBS...


> In 70 AD, after a siege marked by starvation and terror crucifixions, the Roman army broke through the walls of Jerusalem.  Not only did they kill thousands of Jews, they laid waste to the Temple, the only place on Earth, according to Biblical law, where Jews could worship God.
> 
> It was the death of the religion of Priests and sacrifices described by the Hebrew Bible.  But, it would not be the death of Judaism.  In the years ahead, some of the greatest religious minds in history would struggle to reinvent the religion of Moses and David.
> 
> *But, the Jews would be forced to work during a period of almost inconceivable bloodshed and turmoil.  They would watch their people be expelled from Jerusalem on pain of death and see the name of their homeland changed from Judea to Palestine*


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLypbbijk2I&feature=relmfu]The Gifts of the Jews - YouTube[/ame]
PBS...


> Specializing in the history of early Christianity, Paula Fredriksen is author of two books and over a dozen articles on early Christianity. Among her numerous awards and honors are a National Endowment for the Humanities grant for University Professors and a Lady Davis Visiting Professorship of Ancient Christianity at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. Her second book, From Jesus to Christ: The Origins of the New Testament Images of Jesus, received the Yale Press Governors' Award for Best Book in 1988. Fredriksen holds a Ph.D. in history of religions, ancient christianity, and Greco-Roman religions from Princeton University and a theology diploma from Oxford University. She served as historical consultant for the BBC production The Lives of Jesus and was a featured speaker and historical consultant for U.S. News and World Report's "The Life and Times of Jesus."
> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/etc/bios.html


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## Saigon (May 8, 2012)

Stone - 

Ok, so you have no evidence to back up your claim, and you refuse to admit when you are wrong, even though you clearly know that you are wrong. 

I have to say - you may be the weakest poster on this topic I've ever seen.

I'll look at this thread and later, and if you mke any substantive and ON TOPIC comments, I will respond to them.


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## JStone (May 8, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Stone -
> 
> Ok, so you have no evidence to back up your claim, and you refuse to admit when you are wrong, even though you clearly know that you are wrong.
> 
> ...



You lost, as always.  Run along.

Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen, Professor of Religion, Boston University; Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University; Diploma in Theology, Oxford University 


> The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish rebel] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure. Its result was not: [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.
> 
> *The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory. And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.*
> Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews by Paula Fredriksen - Book - Random House


PBS...


> Specializing in the history of early Christianity, Paula Fredriksen is author of two books and over a dozen articles on early Christianity. Among her numerous awards and honors are a National Endowment for the Humanities grant for University Professors and a Lady Davis Visiting Professorship of Ancient Christianity at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. Her second book, From Jesus to Christ: The Origins of the New Testament Images of Jesus, received the Yale Press Governors' Award for Best Book in 1988. Fredriksen holds a Ph.D. in history of religions, ancient christianity, and Greco-Roman religions from Princeton University and a theology diploma from Oxford University. She served as historical consultant for the BBC production The Lives of Jesus and was a featured speaker and historical consultant for U.S. News and World Report's "The Life and Times of Jesus."
> Biographies | From Jesus To Christ - The First Christians | FRONTLINE | PBS


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## Saigon (May 9, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Stone -
> 
> I have explained to you twice why Palestine is as legitimate a term as German or Italian.
> 
> ...



Stone - 

No one disputes that the word Palestine is relatively recent. Howver, as you have been shown, many national titles are much more recent invetions, and this in no way compromises the concept of the state.

Do you accept that Italy is a legimate state?

Either rebut these points with on topic arguments, or admit that you are wrong. 

Also, please back up your claim that 10 per cent of people on Roman lands were actually Jewish. 

Spamming the thread with off topic quotes is not presenting a factual and substantive point. As an expert in this field, you should know this.


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## Lipush (May 9, 2012)

ima said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



First of all, you're not a Jew, and even less, you don't know anything about my family, so you cannot possibly know how they consider me and WHAT they consider me.

Second of all, it was their choice to take me in, if people would have not consider me Jewish, my parents would not have put me in that position to start with. 

And last, I have said that i'm converted. 

I hope I made myself clear. I'm Jewish, I'm Israeli, therefor I can speak in behalf of someone who's a Jew and Israeli. 

And you're in no position to tell me who or what I am.


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## ima (May 9, 2012)

Lipush said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



Like you say, you're a converted jew, not a real one. You can speak on behalf of hispanics who converted to Judaism and moved to Israel. And NO ONE, not even you're own family considers you a real Jew, ask them and look at their faces when they say you are, you'll get your answer.


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## JStone (May 9, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Stone -
> ...



Israel, not palestine, dummy.  

Old Testament


> Exodus 34:27: Then the LORD said to Moses, &#8220;Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.


 
New Testament


> John 12:13 They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting, &#8220;Hosanna! &#8220;Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! &#8220;Blessed is the king of Israel!&#8221;




Quran


> Quran 10:93 We settled the Children of Israel in a beautiful dwelling-place, and provided for them sustenance of the best: it was after knowledge had been granted to them.


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## Saigon (May 9, 2012)

JStone - 

Please try and post honestly and logically, rather than just spouting childish abuse. 

Again - do you contend that Italy and Germany are not legitmate states, given that the names Germany and Italy are younger than the name of Palestine?


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## Truthseeker420 (May 9, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> If I were prime minister of Israel the first thing I would do is acknowledge that Hamas is the duly elected government of the Palestinian people.  No peace can be obtained by just ignoring Hamas as a terrorist organization.  I would invite all of Hamas leaders to Tel Aviv for peace negotiations.  I would provide them with the most lavish housing & fine dining available throughout this historic event.  After an introductory dinner while we are all seated I would make an announcement to Hamas --- Welcome & thank you for coming.  From now on, each time you kill an Israeli, Israel will retaliate by killing 10,000 Palestinians.  Then I would open up the meeting for peace negotiations.  What could be more fair & ethical than to let Hamas decide how many, if any, Palestinians Israel will have to kill for peace.



so you're no better than a suicide bomber.


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## Saigon (May 9, 2012)

And we are back to irrelevent spam....what a surprise. 

You raised the topic of the word 'Palestine', and then run away from the topic as soon as you are challenged. 

Staggering stuff from an expert!!

btw - We should definitely follow Roudy's idea and all post or qualifications to post on this topic. I'm ver keen, and very interested to see what your qualifications are.


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## JStone (May 9, 2012)

Saigon said:


> JStone -
> 
> Please try and post honestly and logically, rather than just spouting childish abuse.
> 
> Again - do you contend that Italy and Germany are not legitmate states, given that the names Germany and Italy are younger than the name of Palestine?



Israel, not palestine. Israel is the name the indigenous Jews gave to their land.  Palestine was an occupying Roman pagan invention to destroy Jewish nationhood.

*Eminent Middle East Historian Dr. Bernard Lewis, Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton University, Author, "The Middle East: A Brief History of the Last 2000 Years," "The Future of the Middle East," "The Shaping of the Modern Middle East," "The End of Modern History in the Middle East," Faith and Power: Religion and Politics in the Middle East"*


> The countries forming the western arm of the Fertile Crescent were called by the names of the various kingdoms and peoples that ruled and inhabited them. Of these, the most familiar, or at least the best documented, are the southern lands, known in the earlier books of the Hebrew Bible and some other ancient writings as Canaan. After the Israelite conquest and settlement, the area inhabited by them came to be described as "land of the children of Israel" or simply "land of Israel" After the breakup of the kingdom of David and Solomon in the tenth century BCE, the southern part, with Jerusalem as its capital, was called Judah, while the north was called Israel


 


> It is by now commonplace that the civilizations of the Middle East are oldest known to human history.  They go back thousands of years, much older than the civilizations of India and China, not to speak of other upstart places.  It is also interesting, though now often forgotten, that the ancient civilizations of the Middle East were almost totally obliterated and forgotten by their own people as well as by others.  Their monuments were defaced or destroyed, their languages forgotten, their scripts forgotten, their history forgotten and even their identities forgotten.
> 
> All that was known about them came from one single source, and that is Israel, the only component of the ancient Middle East to have retained their identity, their memory, their language and their books.  For a very long time, up to comparatively modern times, with rare exceptions all that was known about the ancient Middle East--the Babylonians, the Egyptians and the rest--was what the Jewish tradiiton has preserved.
> Amazon.com: Political Words and Ideas in Islam (9781558764248): Bernard Lewis: Books



*PBS: Civilization and the Jews *


> The interaction of Jewish history and Western civilization successively assumed different forms. In the Biblical and Ancient periods, Israel was an integral part of the Near Eastern and classical world, which gave birth to Western civilization. It shared the traditions of ancient Mesopotamia and the rest of that world with regard to it&#8217;s own beginning; it benefited from the decline of Egypt and the other great Near Eastern empires to emerge as a nation in it&#8217;s own right; it asserted it&#8217;s claim to the divinely promised Land of Israel
> PBS - Heritage


 
*Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel* The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum 



> In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.
> Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.



* Harvard University Semitic Museum: Jerusalem During The Reign Of King Hezekiah--New Exhibition At The Semitic Museum Re-Creates Numerous Aspects Of Ancient Israel* Harvard Gazette: Jerusalem during the reign of King Hezekiah 



> The Semitic Museum has installed a new exhibition that brings the world of biblical Israel into vivid, three-dimensional reality. "The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine" immerses the viewer in Israelite daily life around the time of King Hezekiah (8th century B.C.), creating an experiential environment based on the latest archaeological, textual, and historical research.
> The centerpiece of the exhibition is a full-scale Israelite house, open on one side, filled with authentic ancient artifacts that show how life was lived by common inhabitants of ancient Jerusalem. Agricultural tools, a cooking area, and a stall occupied by a single, scruffy ram fill the ground floor of the cube-shaped, mud-brick structure, which, thankfully, is not olfactorily authentic. The upper story, reached by a ladder, is devoted to eating and sleeping.



*Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel* The Archaeology of Ancient Israel - Ben-Tor, Amnon; Greenberg, R. - Yale University Press



> In this lavishly illustrated book some of Israel's foremost archaeologists present a thorough, up-to-date, and readily accessible survey of early life in the land of the Bible, from the Neolithic era (eighth millennium B.C.E.) to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. It will be a delightful and informative resource for anyone who has ever wanted to know more about the religious, scientific, or historical background of the region.


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## Saigon (May 9, 2012)

JStone & Roudy - 

So when do you guys want to post our qualifications to post on the Middle East?

Shall we maybe make a separate thread for it? 

Do you guys want to go first, or shall I?

btw, I guess this is obvious - but everything should be verifiable. If you are going to claim to have been to the Istaqlal Mosue, expect to be asked for pictures.


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## Lipush (May 9, 2012)

ima said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



I look at their faces every time, and all I see is love that is endless, and a lot of pride. I have no need to doubt or to feel that I don't belong.

The photo of which I was baptized in the Mikveh by the Rabbi of Ashdod, I came across it, btw, just few months ago, that is the first time I knew I was converted. I never thought of this before, I knew where I came from, but it was so trivial that it never crossed my mind that I needed to be converted. But once you are converted, there is no difference between you and the next friend. 

but I don't think that someone who believes that one race is better then the other, like YOU DO, will ever understand that. 

You simply have no idea how the world works. Not to mention your racism. I really hope your grandchildren and their children will think differently then you do.


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## Lipush (May 9, 2012)

Saigon said:


> JStone -
> 
> Please try and post honestly and logically, rather than just spouting childish abuse.
> 
> Again - do you contend that Italy and Germany are not legitmate states, given that the names Germany and Italy are younger than the name of Palestine?



You know there is no "P" in Arabic, it is "Falastin" which kinds of loses its real meaning, since the word "Palestine" rooted in Hebrew, says "Paleshet", which means "to invade". This is how the Hebrews called the philisitines. how Palestinians of today philisitines? since the philisitines came from europe, i would vote no on that one


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## ima (May 9, 2012)

Lipush said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



So which race do I think is superior, since you seem to know. I was just pointing out facts, it has nothing to do with my personal beliefs.


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## JStone (May 9, 2012)

ima said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



Ima Dunce, which one is you in the pic?




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4Vp642ERhM&feature=related]Sound-Effects - Crowd Laughing - YouTube[/ame][/QUOTE]


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## MJB12741 (May 9, 2012)

She is Jewish by choice.  Why do you have a problem with that?





ima said:


> Lipush said:
> 
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> > ima said:
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## Lipush (May 9, 2012)

ima said:


> Lipush said:
> 
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> > ima said:
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You don't back up your "facts" with anything valid, and I can point up a living proof that your "facts" are not true. That makes it an opinion.

Since you obviously think that my surrounding think of me as "subhuman" since I am "not a real Jew" (quoting your own words), also, without backing it up, you simply show an opinion, which again, based on nothing but assumptions. since you assume that Jews, not matter who and from where, think they're better than anyone else, it means you follow the same pattern that previous Jew haters followed.

Next you're gonna probably blaim us for drinking Christian blood. 

Oh, but wait. I am not 'a real Jew'. So I don't do that. the people who raised me do, though. But since it *IS* the 21 century, it's probably Palestinian blood,now, right?

riiiiight.


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## Saigon (May 9, 2012)

If someone lives in Israel and feels Jewish - as far as I am concerned, they are Jewish. 

Mosrt Israeli Jews are not Sabra...it shouldn't matter where someone was born. There are a million Russian-born Ashkenazim Jews in Israel - who says they are not really Jewish?


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## Lipush (May 9, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> She is Jewish by choice.  Why do you have a problem with that?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



this is not that I'm converted Jew that is Ima's problem. Ima's desperate to believe that because i wasn't BORN Jewish, that my family thinks I worth less then a "pure blooded" Jew. I told Ima this is far from the truth, but when this bigoted believe is so deeply rooted, Ima cannot except anything but the truth that racism creats for itself.


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## MJB12741 (May 9, 2012)

Yes but let us be careful not to make a point of correcting Ima.  Where will we go for fun & laughs if he leaves us?




Lipush said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > She is Jewish by choice.  Why do you have a problem with that?
> ...


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## ima (May 10, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> She is Jewish by choice.  Why do you have a problem with that?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have no problem with anyone converting to a religion, it's that she said she was a descendant of some white Jewish important person, and she's not, she's adopted and hispanic. Jus' sayin'.


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## ima (May 10, 2012)

Lipush said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > She is Jewish by choice.  Why do you have a problem with that?
> ...



I'm sure your family loves you almost as much as if you were a real born Jew. And you ARE worth less in the eyes of Jews, because you were born a gentile. If you don't think that Jews think that they alone are god's chosen people and the rest of us are barely above shmucks, then you obviously don't know much about Judaism and your "fellow" Jews.


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## Lipush (May 10, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > She is Jewish by choice.  Why do you have a problem with that?
> ...



I was adopted by Sabra Jewish mother. her family was here since the end of the 1800's. My father was not born in Israel, but he has a very well known heritage of his Jewish Rabbis grandparents, the Jewish community of Hungary is all familiar with who they were and how they lived.

I'm my patents' only daughter, and this is the family heritage I carry. I am no different than the next Israeli Jew.


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## ima (May 10, 2012)

Lipush said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
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This is your adoptive family's heritage, your own heritage passes through the woman (crack whore?) who gave birth to you and the man whose sperm sealed the deal.


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## Lipush (May 10, 2012)

ima said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



First of all, your statement is an oxymoron, since most people outside my family don't even know that I was born a gentile. We don't actually talk about it with strangers. So how can they think less of me.

Second, I do know the community I live in, to tell you that what you say is not true. The Jews of the world don't see themselves as better then anyone else, they simply see themselves as different from the rest of the world. Because the rest of the world rejected the Jews, isolated them, banned them, some of the Jews learned or thought that would be better to far themselves from the gentiles, since it's the only way of surviving normally. When Jews tried to blind in, they were rejected, when they pulled themselved out, people thought they were racists. it's became a lose-lose kind of situation.

I do remember that when being a child and hearing on politics and the conflict of the radio, I used to ask why is the world so blind, and what will the future bring? maybe if we just explain to them how things are, they would "leave us alone", and my dad said to me the same that his father told him after WW2. "Ein Emuna BaGoyim", "We won't put our blind faith in the gentiles", he said "only in ourselves we trust". 

When my old man was young, he used to go to school in a small village near Budapest. He went there with his brother, who was 2 years older then he, and another Jewish boy in a different class. they were the 3 only Jewish boys in the whole school. the school manager happened to be extremely Antisemitic, just like many Hunganian Christians after the holocaust. The boy in the different class was maybe 10, i think even younger, while my uncle was 8 and my father just turned 6. The other boy got into a fight with other two boys, they were harrasing him for his weird accent, and he pushed one of them in a moment of fury; the school manager saw this, catched the boy from his name and spit in his face, 'Mit csinálsz, te szennye Zsidó??', ('What are you doing, you filthy Jew??') they boy was helpless then furious of the public unjustified humiliation, my father and uncle both saw this incident with the other kids in the yard, so the boy did the probably most idiotic thing an angry kid could do at the moment. he braught his right fist and punched the big man in the nose. when his grip on the boy got released, the child ran of like a squirl, jumped of the fence and was never seen again. Seeing that, my uncle took my fathers smaller hand in his, and told him, "C'mon, we're leaving". And that was the last day they learned in any school in Hungary. They knew the word will spread and they will have no permission to going back to school.

Apperenly, it's not US who think were better, like others who think we think that, while treating Jews like crap.


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## theliq (May 10, 2012)

jstone said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> > jstone said:
> ...


   moron


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## Lipush (May 10, 2012)

theliq said:


> jstone said:
> 
> 
> > peach174 said:
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A moron is a Palestinian?

ROFL

Sorry, just had to.


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## ima (May 10, 2012)

Lipush said:


> ima said:
> 
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> > Lipush said:
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Jews are considered god's chosen people by some, which means that god chose them over everyone else, meaning everyone else aren't chosen by god, meaning god likes Jews more than anyone else, meaning they think that god thinks that they are more worthy/better than everyone else, meaning that "gentile" is a derogatory word, like calling a black person "boy".


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## Lipush (May 10, 2012)

ima said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



The word "Gentile" is not familiar to me in a way that I can look at some deep meaning into it. The word I know is "Goy". Goy is a word which comes from the Torah, Abraham was called a Goy by HaShem(God). Goy means "nation". while reading in the bible later on, the word "Goy" means "A nation which is not Israel". It is not a word which means to be insulting or harming in any way. it a simple description.


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## Lipush (May 10, 2012)

ima said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



I don't know them, nor care about them, nor hold any connection to them.

The family i have is the family who raised me. there is no question about it.


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## MJB12741 (May 10, 2012)

SO what?  Converted Jews are Jews.  Just like converted Christians are Christians or Muslims are Muslims.




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > She is Jewish by choice.  Why do you have a problem with that?
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (May 10, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> SO what?  Converted Jews are Jews.  Just like converted Christians are Christians or Muslims are Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



True, and many Palestinian Muslims used to be Jews or Christians. Palestine is their homeland.


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## JStone (May 10, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > SO what?  Converted Jews are Jews.  Just like converted Christians are Christians or Muslims are Muslims.
> ...



Palestine is Israel, douchebag.  The Romans invented the word palestine to call Israel during the Roman Empire.

No reputation points for you, loser.

Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen, Professor of Religion, Boston University; Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University; Diploma in Theology, Oxford University 


> The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish rebel] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure. Its result was not: [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.
> 
> *The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory. And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.*
> Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews by Paula Fredriksen - Book - Random House


 
PBS...


> In 70 AD, after a siege marked by starvation and terror crucifixions, the Roman army broke through the walls of Jerusalem.  Not only did they kill thousands of Jews, they laid waste to the Temple, the only place on Earth, according to Biblical law, where Jews could worship God.
> 
> It was the death of the religion of Priests and sacrifices described by the Hebrew Bible.  But, it would not be the death of Judaism.  In the years ahead, some of the greatest religious minds in history would struggle to reinvent the religion of Moses and David.
> 
> *But, the Jews would be forced to work during a period of almost inconceivable bloodshed and turmoil.  They would watch their people be expelled from Jerusalem on pain of death and see the name of their homeland changed from Judea to Palestine*


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLypbbijk2I&feature=relmfu]The Gifts of the Jews - YouTube[/ame]


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## MJB12741 (May 10, 2012)

Exactly right.  How proud of you I am.  In fact, the first & only indigenous Palestinians were Jews & then Christians.  Don't you agree it's time for the Arab Muslim Palestinians to stop stealing their land?




P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > SO what?  Converted Jews are Jews.  Just like converted Christians are Christians or Muslims are Muslims.
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (May 10, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Exactly right.  How proud of you I am.  In fact, the first & only indigenous Palestinians were Jews & then Christians.  Don't you agree it's time for the Arab Muslim Palestinians to stop stealing their land?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Contradictory post of the day*.


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## JStone (May 10, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Exactly right.  How proud of you I am.  In fact, the first & only indigenous Palestinians were Jews & then Christians.  Don't you agree it's time for the Arab Muslim Palestinians to stop stealing their land?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Indigenous palestinians are really egyptians and saudis who invaded Israel a few decades ago.  There are no indigenous palestinians in Israel

Palesteenian Hamas Minister of the Interior Fathi Hammad, Al-Hekma TV [Egypt]: "Half of the Palestiniains are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis"


> Brothers, there are 1.8 million of us in Gaza. Allah be praised, we all have Arab roots and every Palestinian in Gaza and throughout Palestine can prove his Arab roots--whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere.
> 
> Personally, half my family is Egyptian.  We are all like that.
> 
> ...


 
Winston Churchill, Secretary of "Palestine" During British Mandate to House of Commons, Parliamentary Debates, 23 May 1939


> So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population.
> Churchill and the Jews | Martin Gilbert | Macmillan


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## MJB12741 (May 10, 2012)

Fact is there were no Muslims at all, until the 7th century AD.  Lets see now, were there Jews in Israel or Palestine before then?  So who is stealing who's land?  Boy, thats a tough one, huh?


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## Saigon (May 10, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Fact is there were no Muslims at all, until the 7th century AD.  Lets see now, were there Jews in Israel or Palestine before then?  So who is stealing who's land?  Boy, thats a tough one, huh?



Yes, it is - because there were both Jews and Arabs living in both Jericho and Jerusalem in 2,700 BC. 

Arabs formed more than 90% of the population. 

They continued to form the majority of the population until the 1930s, I believe.


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## Saigon (May 10, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Exactly right.  How proud of you I am.  In fact, the first & only indigenous Palestinians were Jews & then Christians.  Don't you agree it's time for the Arab Muslim Palestinians to stop stealing their land?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This really is very, very funny. 

Have you though about perhaps just posting a range of random adjectives like "Jew Christian Canaanite Arab Palestinian Kurd Canuck Phoenician"?


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## JStone (May 10, 2012)

Saigon said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Fact is there were no Muslims at all, until the 7th century AD.  Lets see now, were there Jews in Israel or Palestine before then?  So who is stealing who's land?  Boy, thats a tough one, huh?
> ...



You have any archaeological record for Arabs in Jericho and Jerusalem in 2700 BCE? No, I didn't think so because you made it up 

Eminent Middle East Historian Dr. Bernard Lewis, Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton University, Author, "The Middle East: A Brief History of the Last 2000 Years," "The Future of the Middle East," "The Shaping of the Modern Middle East," "The End of Modern History in the Middle East," Faith and Power: Religion and Politics in the Middle East"


> The countries forming the western arm of the Fertile Crescent were called by the names of the various kingdoms and peoples that ruled and inhabited them. Of these, the most familiar, or at least the best documented, are the southern lands, known in the earlier books of the Hebrew Bible and some other ancient writings as Canaan. After the Israelite conquest and settlement, the area inhabited by them came to be described as "land of the children of Israel" or simply "land of Israel" After the breakup of the kingdom of David and Solomon in the tenth century BCE, the southern part, with Jerusalem as its capital, was called Judah, while the north was called Israel





> It is by now commonplace that the civilizations of the Middle East are oldest known to human history.  They go back thousands of years, much older than the civilizations of India and China, not to speak of other upstart places.  It is also interesting, though now often forgotten, that the ancient civilizations of the Middle East were almost totally obliterated and forgotten by their own people as well as by others.  Their monuments were defaced or destroyed, their languages forgotten, their scripts forgotten, their history forgotten and even their identities forgotten.
> 
> All that was known about them came from one single source, and that is Israel, the only component of the ancient Middle East to have retained their identity, their memory, their language and their books.  For a very long time, up to comparatively modern times, with rare exceptions all that was known about the ancient Middle East--the Babylonians, the Egyptians and the rest--was what the Jewish tradiiton has preserved.
> Amazon.com: Political Words and Ideas in Islam (9781558764248): Bernard Lewis: Books


 

*PBS: Civilization and the Jews *


> The interaction of Jewish history and Western civilization successively assumed different forms. In the Biblical and Ancient periods, Israel was an integral part of the Near Eastern and classical world, which gave birth to Western civilization. It shared the traditions of ancient Mesopotamia and the rest of that world with regard to its own beginning; it benefited from the decline of Egypt and the other great Near Eastern empires to emerge as a nation in its own right; it asserted its claim to the divinely promised Land of Israel
> PBS - Heritage


 
*Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel* The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum 



> In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.
> Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.



* Harvard University Semitic Museum: Jerusalem During The Reign Of King Hezekiah--New Exhibition At The Semitic Museum Re-Creates Numerous Aspects Of Ancient Israel* Harvard Gazette: Jerusalem during the reign of King Hezekiah 



> The Semitic Museum has installed a new exhibition that brings the world of biblical Israel into vivid, three-dimensional reality. "The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine" immerses the viewer in Israelite daily life around the time of King Hezekiah (8th century B.C.), creating an experiential environment based on the latest archaeological, textual, and historical research.
> The centerpiece of the exhibition is a full-scale Israelite house, open on one side, filled with authentic ancient artifacts that show how life was lived by common inhabitants of ancient Jerusalem. Agricultural tools, a cooking area, and a stall occupied by a single, scruffy ram fill the ground floor of the cube-shaped, mud-brick structure, which, thankfully, is not olfactorily authentic. The upper story, reached by a ladder, is devoted to eating and sleeping.



*Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel* The Archaeology of Ancient Israel - Ben-Tor, Amnon; Greenberg, R. - Yale University Press



> In this lavishly illustrated book some of Israel's foremost archaeologists present a thorough, up-to-date, and readily accessible survey of early life in the land of the Bible, from the Neolithic era (eighth millennium B.C.E.) to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. It will be a delightful and informative resource for anyone who has ever wanted to know more about the religious, scientific, or historical background of the region.



*PBS Nova *...


> In the banks of the Nile in southern Egypt in 1896, British archaeologisit Flinders Petrie unearthed one of the most important discoveries in biblical archaeology known as the Merneptah Stele.  Merneptah's stele announces the entrance on the world stage of a People named Israel.
> 
> The Merneptah Stele is powerful evidence that a People called the Israelites are living in Canaan over 3000 years ago
> 
> Dr. Donald Redford, Egyptologist and archaeologist: The Merneptah Stele is priceless evidence for the presence of an ethnical group called Israel in Canaan.




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvg2EZAEw5c]1/13 The Bible&#39;s Buried Secrets (NOVA PBS) - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## MJB12741 (May 10, 2012)

Ya know, here is where the Paslestinians really blew it.  First we heard they are the decendents of Assyrians, then Phoenicians, then Canaanites, then Philistines.  Can you imagine how doomed Israel would have been if they had the brains to just claim they are the decendents of the lost tribes of Israel?




Saigon said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Exactly right.  How proud of you I am.  In fact, the first & only indigenous Palestinians were Jews & then Christians.  Don't you agree it's time for the Arab Muslim Palestinians to stop stealing their land?
> ...


----------



## JStone (May 10, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Ya know, here is where the Paslestinians really blew it.  First we heard they are the decendents of Assyrians, then Phoenicians, then Canaanites, then Philistines.  Can you imagine how doomed Israel would have been if they had the brains to just claim they are the decendents of the lost tribes of Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Eminent Archaeologist and Historian, former Fulbright Scholar Eric Cline...


> The claims that modern Palestinians are descended from the ancient Jebusites are made without any supporting evidence.  Historians and archaeologists have generally concluded that most, if not all, modern Palestinians are probably more closely related to the Arabs of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordan and other countries than they are to the ancient Jebusites, Canaanites or Philistines.
> Oxford University Press: Oxford Handbook of the Bronze Age Aegean: Eric H. Cline


 
Rashid Khalidi, Professor of Modern Arab Studies,  
Columbia University, Director of Columbia University's Middle East Institute and advisor to various Arab groups...


> There is a relatively recent tradition which argues that Palestinian nationalism has deep historical roots.  As with other national movements, extreme advocates of this view anachronistically read back into the history of Palestine over the past few centuries a nationalist consciousness and identity that are in fact relatively modern.  Among the manifestations of this outlook are a predilection for seeing in peoples such as the Canaanites, Jebusites and Philistines the lineal ancestors of the modern Palestinians.
> Amazon.com: Palestinian Identity (9780231105156): Rashid Khalidi: Books


 
Eminent Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis



> By [Arabs] bypassing the Biblical Israelites and claiming kinship with the Canaanites, it is possible to assert a historical claim antedating the biblical promise and possession put forward by the Jews.  This line of argument isaccompanied by the common practice in Arab countries, in textbook, museums and exhibitions of minimizing the Jewish role in ancient history or, more frequently, presenting it in very negative terms.
> 
> In terms of scholarship as distinct from politics, there is no evidence whatsoever for the assertion that the Canaanites were Arabs.
> http://www.amazon.com/Political-Wor...&ie=UTF8&qid=1323825054&sr=1-38&tag=ff0d01-20


 
Eminent Historian Sir Martin Gilbert...


> On August 18 Yasir Arafat, speaking as head of the Palestinian National Authority in Gaza and Jericho, told Arab youngsters at a summer camp, "Those of you who lit the intifada fire must now act as defenders of this young state, whose capital is Jerusalem. It is Bir Salem [the fountain of Salem]. Salem was one of the Canaanite Kings, one of our forefathers. This city is the capital of our children and our children's children. If not for this belief and conviction of the Palestinian nation, this people would have been erased from the face of the earth, as were so many other nations."
> 
> 
> King Salem is a newcomer on the historical scene. No such Canaanite, Jebusite or Philistine king is known to history.p://www.amazon.com/GilbertsThe-Routledge-History-Historical-Hardcover/dp/B0041CNUIC/ref=sr_1_24?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1333126978&sr=1-24



"Palestinian" Hamas Minister of the Interior Fathi Hammad, Al-Hekma TV [Egypt]: "Half of the Palestiniains are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis"


> Brothers, there are 1.8 million of us in Gaza. Allah be praised, we all have Arab roots and every Palestinian in Gaza and throughout Palestine can prove his Arab roots--whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere.
> 
> Personally, half my family is Egyptian.  We are all like that.
> 
> ...


----------



## Saigon (May 10, 2012)

And....we're back to having the thread closed down with spam. 

Great work, JStone - you killed ANOTHER Thread!! Excellent!!


----------



## JStone (May 10, 2012)

Saigon said:


> And....we're back to having the thread closed down with spam.
> 
> Great work, JStone - you killed ANOTHER Thread!! Excellent!!



You're done, as usual.  Run along, loser


----------



## ima (May 10, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Fact is there were no Muslims at all, until the 7th century AD.  Lets see now, were there Jews in Israel or Palestine before then?  So who is stealing who's land?  Boy, thats a tough one, huh?


The real fact is that there were no whiteys in Oz 500 years ago, so who stole whose land?


----------



## MJB12741 (May 10, 2012)

Here it is folks.  Like it or not, it is what it is.




peach174 said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > peach174 said:
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (May 10, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Ya know, here is where the Paslestinians really blew it.  First we heard they are the decendents of Assyrians, then Phoenicians, then Canaanites, then Philistines.  Can you imagine how doomed Israel would have been if they had the brains to just claim they are the decendents of the lost tribes of Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> First we heard they are the decendents of Assyrians, then Phoenicians, then Canaanites, then Philistines.



Indeed, those and more. Not unlike America.

Do you have a point?


----------



## ima (May 10, 2012)

Saigon said:


> And....we're back to having the thread closed down with spam.
> 
> Great work, JStone - you killed ANOTHER Thread!! Excellent!!



That's his role here because he's too embarrassed by Israel to actually debate anything on point. Put him on ignore and turn the oven on high.


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## JStone (May 10, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Ya know, here is where the Paslestinians really blew it.  First we heard they are the decendents of Assyrians, then Phoenicians, then Canaanites, then Philistines.  Can you imagine how doomed Israel would have been if they had the brains to just claim they are the decendents of the lost tribes of Israel?
> ...



The point is fakestinians are an invention

Former PLO Leader Zuheir Mohsen


> The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.
> Zuheir Mohsen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## MJB12741 (May 10, 2012)

Yes.  The point is if they are Assyrians, Phoenicians, Canaanites & Philistines as you & they claim they are, then how did they become "Palestinians"?





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Ya know, here is where the Paslestinians really blew it.  First we heard they are the decendents of Assyrians, then Phoenicians, then Canaanites, then Philistines.  Can you imagine how doomed Israel would have been if they had the brains to just claim they are the decendents of the lost tribes of Israel?
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 10, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Yes.  The point is if they are Assyrians, Phoenicians, Canaanites & Philistines as you & they claim they are, then how did they become "Palestinians"?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How did all these different people become Americans?


----------



## JStone (May 10, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes.  The point is if they are Assyrians, Phoenicians, Canaanites & Philistines as you & they claim they are, then how did they become "Palestinians"?
> ...



You didn't get the memo that pallies are re-invented egyptians and saudis?

Palesteenian Hamas Minister of the Interior Fathi Hammad, Al-Hekma TV [Egypt]: "Half of the Palestiniains are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis"


> Brothers, there are 1.8 million of us in Gaza. Allah be praised, we all have Arab roots and every Palestinian in Gaza and throughout Palestine can prove his Arab roots--whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere.
> 
> Personally, half my family is Egyptian.  We are all like that.
> 
> ...


 
Winston Churchill, Secretary of "Palestine" During British Mandate to House of Commons, Parliamentary Debates, 23 May 1939


> So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population.
> Churchill and the Jews | Martin Gilbert | Macmillan


----------



## MJB12741 (May 10, 2012)

Did you know that Columbus discovered America?  If you don't believe it, just ask any native American Indian whose familie's were already here when Columbus arrived.  Does that answer your question?




P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes.  The point is if they are Assyrians, Phoenicians, Canaanites & Philistines as you & they claim they are, then how did they become "Palestinians"?
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (May 10, 2012)

Honestly, just leave it to Israel to be the only country in the entire Middle East to ever make peace offerings to Palestinians, build a security fence & concede land to them so they can remain there.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 10, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Honestly, just leave it to Israel to be the only country in the entire Middle East to ever make peace offerings to Palestinians, build a security fence & concede land to them so they can remain there.





> ...peace offerings to Palestinians...


----------



## MJB12741 (May 10, 2012)

Believe it or not, I was once a proud Zionist.  Back in the days when Zionism meant having, building, protecting & defending the land & the people of Israel.  And just look at them Zionists in Israel today provoking Palestinian terrorists with their damn peace offerings, security fence & land concessions so they can remain in Israel to continue to kill their citizens & continue their vow to annihilate Israel.  Shame on Israel.





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Honestly, just leave it to Israel to be the only country in the entire Middle East to ever make peace offerings to Palestinians, build a security fence & concede land to them so they can remain there.
> ...


----------



## SAYIT (May 10, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Honestly, just leave it to Israel to be the only country in the entire Middle East to ever make peace offerings to Palestinians, build a security fence & concede land to them so they can remain there.
> ...



On August 2, 2008, 180 Fatah "freedom fighters," some wounded in vicious battles with their "Palestinian" Hamas brethren, put down their weapons and crossed into Israel. The wounded were treated. They clearly believed they would be better treated in Israel than they would in Gaza. What does that tell you? Can you imagine what would become of 180 IDFers if they put down their weapons and crossed into Gaza?


----------



## JStone (May 10, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Honestly, just leave it to Israel to be the only country in the entire Middle East to ever make peace offerings to Palestinians, build a security fence & concede land to them so they can remain there.
> ...



Why don't you have even one reputation point after 3 years and why does your own page say you suck off goats?


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## P F Tinmore (May 10, 2012)

SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



Of course they were treated better by Israel, they worked for Israel.


----------



## JStone (May 10, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Israel should treat Hamas well when Hamas is a terrorist faction in a declared state of war with Israel?  The same Hamas that expressed outrage for bin Laden's assassination as their holy warrior.

No reputation points for you, dopey.


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## MJB12741 (May 10, 2012)

Good point.  Yes, that too pisses me off with those Zionists in Israel.  Send the wounded Palestinian terrorists to get well in Israeli hospitals so they can kill even more Israeli's for a thank you.  I've said it before & I'll say it again.  If there is ever any hope for a lasting peace between Israel & the Palestinians, first this entire disgraceful Zionist agenda & has to go.  




SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


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## pbel (May 10, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Believe it or not, I was once a proud Zionist.  Back in the days when Zionism meant having, building, protecting & defending the land & the people of Israel.  And just look at them Zionists in Israel today provoking Palestinian terrorists with their damn peace offerings, security fence & land concessions so they can remain in Israel to continue to kill their citizens & continue their vow to annihilate Israel.  Shame on Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


MJ, my understanding is that the 1.5 million Israeli/Palestinians have been very good peaceful citizens. Even the conquored in E. Jerusalem are law abiding.

 Can't you see that going the hate route as so many of your ZioNut friends will never give Israelis peace?


----------



## JStone (May 10, 2012)

pbel said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Believe it or not, I was once a proud Zionist.  Back in the days when Zionism meant having, building, protecting & defending the land & the people of Israel.  And just look at them Zionists in Israel today provoking Palestinian terrorists with their damn peace offerings, security fence & land concessions so they can remain in Israel to continue to kill their citizens & continue their vow to annihilate Israel.  Shame on Israel.
> ...



You have no understanding.


----------



## Saigon (May 10, 2012)

pbel said:


> Can't you see that going the hate route as so many of your ZioNut friends will never give Israelis peace?



JStone has no interest in Israel, nor in peace. Why would he have?


----------



## Saigon (May 10, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Believe it or not, I was once a proud Zionist.  Back in the days when Zionism meant having, building, protecting & defending the land & the people of Israel.  And just look at them Zionists in Israel today provoking Palestinian terrorists with their damn peace offerings, security fence & land concessions so they can remain in Israel to continue to kill their citizens & continue their vow to annihilate Israel.  Shame on Israel.



You have to laugh, don't you?! 

But I also ask myself  - could any honest person have so completely confused the facts, or is this simply wilful ignorance?


----------



## JStone (May 10, 2012)

Saigon said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Believe it or not, I was once a proud Zionist.  Back in the days when Zionism meant having, building, protecting & defending the land & the people of Israel.  And just look at them Zionists in Israel today provoking Palestinian terrorists with their damn peace offerings, security fence & land concessions so they can remain in Israel to continue to kill their citizens & continue their vow to annihilate Israel.  Shame on Israel.
> ...



Shut the fuck up, you uneducated sack of shit.


----------



## Saigon (May 10, 2012)

JStone - 

I think it is fairly obvious that you post out of wilful ignorance. 

On several occasions I have posted what are simply cast iron fact, and your response has been to spam the thread in the hopes no one else saw them. And then you go repeating what you know full well are simply myths and lies. 

I sense even the few other Zionist posters here find your posting embarassing....and I'm not surprised.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 10, 2012)

Huh?  What "hate route" have I gone?  Those Palestinians who live in peace with Israeli's are to be commended.  Those who cannot live in peace with Israeli's, Israel should help them by finding an incentive to offer the Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  What "hate" is there in that?  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!





pbel said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Believe it or not, I was once a proud Zionist.  Back in the days when Zionism meant having, building, protecting & defending the land & the people of Israel.  And just look at them Zionists in Israel today provoking Palestinian terrorists with their damn peace offerings, security fence & land concessions so they can remain in Israel to continue to kill their citizens & continue their vow to annihilate Israel.  Shame on Israel.
> ...


----------



## Saigon (May 10, 2012)

MJB - 

You may be the victim of a little mistaken identitity there. 

Given both Roady and JStone post largely on the basis of racial hatred (neither seem to actully have any real interest in the topic, that's for sure), it's easy to assume that all of you guys feel the same way. 

I do agree that Zionism isn't necessarily anti-Palestinian. That said, your prior statement about Israel is NOT a Zionist position, and I think any real Zionist would tear it to shreds.


----------



## JStone (May 10, 2012)

Saigon said:


> MJB -
> 
> You may be the victim of a little mistaken identitity there.
> 
> ...



Shut the fuck up, you uneducated sack of shit.


----------



## SAYIT (May 11, 2012)

ima said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > And....we're back to having the thread closed down with spam.
> ...



OK, I give up. What the hell does that mean?


----------



## SAYIT (May 11, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Ya know, I asked you recently how any poster of any stripe could spend years here posting over 14000 posts and gain no respect, a question you pointedly ignored, but this response explains all anyone needs to know about you ... you're a flaming azzhole.


----------



## Saigon (May 11, 2012)

Jstone - 

Seeing you raise the issue of education, please remember to post your qualifications. Both you and Roadby claim to be well qualified and well-educated - let's see the proof.

While you are at it, perhaps back up your claim that 10 per cent of Roman subjects were Jewish?


----------



## theliq (May 11, 2012)

SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...



Go Fuck yourself BIG MOUTH.......SCUMBAG...theliq always right of course


----------



## ima (May 11, 2012)

SAYIT said:


> Ya know, I asked you recently how any poster of any stripe could spend years here posting over 14000 posts and gain no respect, a question you pointedly ignored, but this response explains all anyone needs to know about you ... you're a flaming azzhole.



You must be like 12 years old. All you have is petty insults and an immature obsession about some meaningless reputation meter, rather than counter with an attempt at a valid argument. You get one more chance and then it's in the vortex with JewStone.


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## P F Tinmore (May 11, 2012)

SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...



Nice deflection. And name calling too.

You obviously had no intelligent response to my post.


----------



## JStone (May 11, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Still, not even one reputation point after 3 years, tinhead?  What a surprise!


----------



## MJB12741 (May 11, 2012)

Why the name calling?  Better we play nice as ladies & gentlemen & just beat each other up sticking to the subject.


----------



## JStone (May 11, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Jstone -
> 
> Seeing you raise the issue of education, please remember to post your qualifications. Both you and Roadby claim to be well qualified and well-educated - let's see the proof.
> 
> While you are at it, perhaps back up your claim that 10 per cent of Roman subjects were Jewish?



Shut the fuck up, you uneducated sack of shit.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 11, 2012)

Thank you Tinmore for your thank you.  When all that's left is to call our adversaries derogatory names, the dispute is over & we lost.




MJB12741 said:


> Why the name calling?  Better we play nice as ladies & gentlemen & just beat each other up sticking to the subject.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 11, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Thank you Tinmore for your thank you.  When all that's left is to call our adversaries derogatory names, the dispute is over & we lost.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Amen


----------



## MJB12741 (May 11, 2012)

Now then, can we return to the subject as to what you would do for peace if you were prime minister of Israel?


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 11, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Now then, can we return to the subject as to what you would do for peace if you were prime minister of Israel?



The way to peace is ending the occupation. Not just little pieces of it but all of it.

Don't hold your breath.


----------



## JStone (May 11, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Now then, can we return to the subject as to what you would do for peace if you were prime minister of Israel?
> ...



The egyptian and saudi occupation of Jewish Israel.

Palesteenian Hamas Minister of the Interior Fathi Hammad, Al-Hekma TV [Egypt]: "Half of the Palestiniains are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis"


> Brothers, there are 1.8 million of us in Gaza. Allah be praised, we all have Arab roots and every Palestinian in Gaza and throughout Palestine can prove his Arab roots--whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere.
> 
> Personally, half my family is Egyptian.  We are all like that.
> 
> ...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAfENxzv2mc]Hamas Interior Minister Slams Egypt over Fuel Shortage in Gaza Strip: We are Egyptians! - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## MJB12741 (May 11, 2012)

Once again we are in agreement.  How many times have I condemned Israel for allowing the Palestinians to squat on their land for so long by making peace offerings to them, building a security fence & conceeding land to them?  Unless & until Israel finds a way to end the occupation by freeing the Palestinians back to their indigenous homelands there can be no peace.  Call it a one state solution.






P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Now then, can we return to the subject as to what you would do for peace if you were prime minister of Israel?
> ...


----------



## SAYIT (May 11, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Still can't explain how it is possible to spend your entire adult life posting over 14,000 screeds on this board and get absolutely no respect?
BTW, you response is so stupid you have been declared "Mr goat suck-off" and are required to wear that dunce cap Stoner so regularly puts on you and sit quietly in the corner.
So where is the link to your absurd charge?


----------



## MJB12741 (May 11, 2012)

I wonder if Mecca would be a nice place for a Palestinian State?


----------



## Hossfly (May 11, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> I wonder if Mecca would be a nice place for a Palestinian State?


Or Southern California?


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## rhodescholar (May 11, 2012)

pbel said:


> MJ, my understanding is that the 1.5 million Israeli/Palestinians have been very good peaceful citizens. Even the conquored in E. Jerusalem are law abiding. Can't you see that going the hate route as so many of your ZioNut friends will never give Israelis peace?



Peabrain, are facts important?

The good citizens of the north, who cheered on hezbollah rocket fire in 2006 into civilian neighborhoods, even when they were killing arabs?

Or the dung like the arab filth allowed into the knesset, who aided and abetted hezbollah in 2006 with inside security information on israel?

How about the israeli arab scum that provided taxi rides driving the muslim filth suicide bombers to their destinations of murder?

Are those the good citizens to which you are referring, imbecile?


----------



## rhodescholar (May 11, 2012)

Saigon said:


> On several occasions I have posted what are simply cast iron fact, and your response has been to spam the thread in the hopes no one else saw them. And then you go repeating what you know full well are simply myths and lies. I sense even the few other Zionist posters here find your posting embarassing....and I'm not surprised.



What "facts" are those, monkey?  The horseshit you find at fuckholes like electronic intifada?


----------



## rhodescholar (May 11, 2012)

Saigon said:


> MJB - You may be the victim of a little mistaken identitity there. Given both Roady and JStone post largely on the basis of racial hatred (neither seem to actully have any real interest in the topic, that's for sure), it's easy to assume that all of you guys feel the same way.   I do agree that Zionism isn't necessarily anti-Palestinian. That said, your prior statement about Israel is NOT a Zionist position, and I think any real Zionist would tear it to shreds.



"Racial hatred"?  Is that what the vanquished muslim terrorist defenders describe when they are called out for being scumbags?


----------



## rhodescholar (May 11, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Now then, can we return to the subject as to what you would do for peace if you were prime minister of Israel?
> ...



And then what, ****?  When the terrorism continues, what will turd like you say?  "Oh, if only we gave the arabs more money, they'd stop attacking..."

And when they get more money, the far left idiots like this will claim: "the arabs just need more land and a new government..." or some other BS.

The problem with fucking trash like this asshole is that there are a lot of people like me who remember EXACTLY what things were like before 1967, and the excuses were different - but the endless, mindless terrorism - was the same.

And there were lowlifes like this animal asshole defending it back then as well, there was just no internet for them to be heard, so when you'd hear one of these fucking ***** defending the arabs on a soapbox at a street corner, you just called them an asshole, and walked past.   As did almost all people then, as they do now.

The only thing given this filth any traction/staying power today is the massive saudi money flowing into colleges to brainwash young people with myths and nonsense.  But when they grow up and learn the truth, they cease defending the muslim filth - at least the ones with any intelligence - unlike the scum I quoted above.


----------



## theliq (May 11, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



Rhodescholar YOU ARE NOT.........you are an Idiot..repeat YOU ARE AN IDIOT.....YOUR INPUT HERE IS NOT REQUIRED........I am theliq ... I am renown for kicking ASS,so bend over LET ME SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW.


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## SAYIT (May 11, 2012)

theliq said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



You are done here, Liq. Now slither back under your rock and dither your kangaroo.


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## theliq (May 11, 2012)

SAYIT said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > rhodescholar said:
> ...



You HAVE A LOW MENTALITY.....because you are a SMALL man (dither meaning indecisive) moreover TOTALLY UNEDUCATED......but as I soar I note with much pleasure,you are up to you sorry neck in SHIT.WHAT A LIFE

as always


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## MJB12741 (May 11, 2012)

I think Theliq is long overdo for the funny farm.




SAYIT said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > rhodescholar said:
> ...


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## JStone (May 11, 2012)

theliq said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



You worship a cave dwelling, caravan hijacking con artist who married a 6 year old in his 50s and who married his former daughter in law.

Who has the low mentality?


----------



## theliq (May 11, 2012)

JStone said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...



Well methinks it's all Arabic Land and all the IMMIGRANTS should go back to where they came from


----------



## JStone (May 11, 2012)

theliq said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



Arabic land would be...Arabia, now Saudi Arabia.  Are you mentally ill or just stupid?  Oh, you're a muslime, so, you're both


----------



## Saigon (May 12, 2012)

JStone - 

Can you explain why you do not consider Egypt, Iraq, Libya or Jordan to be Arabic?

You know - you really are the weakest poster on this topic here. If you are constantly going to fire around abuse about stupidity - maybe learn some basic English grammar first? Your writing is atrocious!


----------



## JStone (May 12, 2012)

Saigon said:


> JStone -
> 
> Can you explain why you do not consider Egypt, Iraq, Libya or Jordan to be Arabic?
> 
> You know - you really are the weakest poster on this topic here. If you are constantly going to fire around abuse about stupidity - maybe learn some basic English grammar first? Your writing is atrocious!



Jews lived in Egypt 1000 years before Arabs and 2500 years in Mesopotamia before Arabs in Iraq.  Open a book, birdbrain.


----------



## Saigon (May 12, 2012)

JStone - 

Jews also lived in Spain during this period...as did Moors - so does that mean Spain is not Spanish?

So if Jews have lived anywhere in the world at any time - it is then theirs, and does not belong to the 90% of the population who are not Jews?


----------



## JStone (May 12, 2012)

Saigon said:


> JStone -
> 
> Jews also lived in Spain during this period...as did Moors - so does that mean Spain is not Spanish?
> 
> So if Jews have lived anywhere in the world at any time - it is then theirs, and does not belong to the 90% of the population who are not Jews?



Pay attention, dummy: Jews lived in Egypt 1000 years before Arabs.  That makes Egypt Jewish, right, dummy?


----------



## Saigon (May 12, 2012)

JSStone - 

Um....no, it just makes you very poorly informed. Or, perhaps more likely, you are once again being wilfuly ignorant. 

Jews were not the first people in the area - the forefathers of the modern Egyptians (and Nubians) were. 

Late Paleolithic

The Late Paleolithic in Egypt started around 30,000 BC.[2] The Nazlet Khater skeleton was found in 1980 and dated in 1982 from nine samples ranging between 35,100 to 30,360 years.[3] This specimen is the only complete modern human skeleton from the earliest Late Stone Age in Africa.[4]
Wadi Halfa

Some of the oldest known buildings were discovered in Egypt by archaeologist Waldemar Chmielewski along the southern border near Wadi Halfa.[2] They were mobile structures &#8212; easily disassembled, moved, and reassembled &#8212; providing hunter-gatherers with semi-permanent habitation.[2]

Prehistoric Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## JStone (May 12, 2012)

Saigon said:


> JSStone -
> 
> Um....no, it just makes you very poorly informed. Or, perhaps more likely, you are once again being wilfuly ignorant.
> 
> ...



Fucktard, try to pay attention: Jews lived in Egypt 1000 years before Arabs.

Now, run along.


----------



## Saigon (May 12, 2012)

JStone - 

So even though you now admit that Jews were not the first inhabitants of Egypt - you consider it their land?

Why?

Again - do you consider Southern Spain to belong to the Moors? to the Jews?


----------



## docmauser1 (May 12, 2012)

Saigon said:


> _Jews also lived in Spain during this period...as did Moors - so does that mean Spain is not Spanish?_


It's Al Andulus, of course.


----------



## theliq (May 12, 2012)

Saigon said:


> JStone -
> 
> So even though you now admit that Jews were not the first inhabitants of Egypt - you consider it their land?
> 
> ...



No the Northern area of Spain and France is Basque,the rest is is not Jewish because like Palestine NEVER WAS


----------



## theliq (May 12, 2012)

Saigon said:


> JSStone -
> 
> Um....no, it just makes you very poorly informed. Or, perhaps more likely, you are once again being wilfuly ignorant.
> 
> ...


 Sia,remember what I told you,going around in ever decreasing circles........which with this mob will desend you into the pit of HELL.

Look you just can't communicate with idiots like this because all these Zionist have had a labotomy theliq


----------



## docmauser1 (May 12, 2012)

theliq said:


> _No the Northern area of Spain and France is Basque,the rest is is not Jewish because like Palestine NEVER WAS_


True, palistanians are delusional.


----------



## docmauser1 (May 12, 2012)

Saigon said:


> _So even though you now admit that Jews were not the first inhabitants of Egypt - you consider it their land?_


Honorable P F Tinmore does through proposing elsewhere that jews should return to Egypt.


----------



## theliq (May 12, 2012)

docmauser1 said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > _So even though you now admit that Jews were not the first inhabitants of Egypt - you consider it their land?_
> ...



DICKHEAD


----------



## ima (May 12, 2012)

"This message is hidden because docmauser1 is on your ignore list."

Ahhh, life is good.


----------



## rhodescholar (May 12, 2012)

theliq said:


> YOUR INPUT HERE IS NOT REQUIRED........I am theliq ... I am renown for kicking ASS,so bend over LET ME SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW.



What you are is a **** idiot weak asshole, with no brains and less future.

The shining example of an arab muslim defending loser internet teen looking at $100K in debt and no job because the zero opted for a very "useful" middle east studies degree from a local 2 year community college funded by a saudi douchebag.

Congratulations idiot, you'll be collecting my tax money through welfare and food stamps for the rest of your life.


----------



## rhodescholar (May 12, 2012)

theliq said:


> Well methinks it's all Arabic Land and all the IMMIGRANTS should go back to where they came from



"Arab" land?  Is that like white person's land?

And if you want the immigrants to leave, when will the arab muslim filth go back to egypt, syria and jordan?

And when will verminous immigrant filth like you leave australia and go back to england, scumbag?


----------



## rhodescholar (May 12, 2012)

Saigon said:


> JStone - Can you explain why you do not consider Egypt, Iraq, Libya or Jordan to be Arabic?



Genius, he never claimed they were not arabic-majority, he said that the pal arabs are illegal immigrants who came from those countries - and are not native to israel/west bank/gaza and have no claim to them.


----------



## JStone (May 12, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Well methinks it's all Arabic Land and all the IMMIGRANTS should go back to where they came from
> ...



Since all arabs originate from their native arabia, by definition, all arabs living elsewhere are IMMIGRANTS.


----------



## ima (May 12, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > JStone - Can you explain why you do not consider Egypt, Iraq, Libya or Jordan to be Arabic?
> ...



You mean like most of the Israelis who aren't native to the area either?


----------



## Saigon (May 12, 2012)

JStone said:


> Since all arabs originate from their native arabia, by definition, all arabs living elsewhere are IMMIGRANTS.



So the MILLION Russians who have moved to Israel during the past 10 years or so should all go home?

btw: how many white Americans lived in America in 1,000BC?

There are days I would swear you have to an Arabic troll, you know! It's hard to imagine you can jump infront of so many trucks by accident.


----------



## JStone (May 12, 2012)

ima said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...



Ima Dunce, you mean like most Israelis who are indigenous to Israel and the Near East dating back 3000 years


----------



## Saigon (May 12, 2012)

JStone said:


> most Israelis who are indigenous to Israel



Jewish 76.4% (of which Israel-born 67.1%, Europe/America-born 22.6%, Africa-born 5.9%, Asia-born 4.2%), non-Jewish 23.6% (mostly Arab) 

Going back ONE generation, the figure for Israeli born is less than 50%. 

Would you like to compare that figure to neighbouring Arab states?


----------



## JStone (May 12, 2012)

Saigon said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > most Israelis who are indigenous to Israel
> ...



You know less than zero, as usual.

Most Israeli Jews are indigenous to the Near East.  Nearly one million Jews were expelled from Arab countries in the aftermath of the '48 War and were repatriated in Israel.

1 million Jews lived in Egypt in the 4th century BCE where the Septuagint Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible was translated to serve the large Greek-speaking Jewish community.

Read, learn...

Eminent Historian Sir Martin Gilbert, Author of 10 Books on Middle East History and History of Jerusalem

Jerusalem became the capital of the first Jewish kingdom in 1004 BC, over 3000 years ago.  With the brief exception of the Crusader period, no other non-Jewish ruling power of Jerusalem made the city a capital but it was consistently a capital for the Jews.  Driven into partial exile by Nebuchadnezzar in 586 BC, the Jews returned fifty years later and rebuilt Jerusalem as their capital.  It was their capital, too, under the Maccabees.  The unity of the city achieved in 1967, then, was more than a quirk of military geography.  It was the fulfillment of unbroken historical longings.

In 1210, following the defeat of the Crusaders, groups of Jews began to return to Jerusalem.  Henceforth, without interruption, and in every decade, individual Jews and groups of Jews reached the city from the Maghreb [north Africa] and elsewhere forming an ever-growing community.  Driven out by the Tartar invasion of 1244, they had returned by 1250.  Three times a day the Jews repeated in their prayers, "And to Jerusalem Thy city mayest thou return to mercy, and dwell in its midst as Thou hast spoken, and rebuild it soon in our days for evermore

Areas from which some 300 Rabbis travelled to Jerusalem, Acre and Ramla in 1210 AD, to strengthen the Jewish communities weakened by the Crusader massacres and expulsions.  Jews are known to have traveled from throughout the region to Jerusalem [after 1267], settling permanently and forming by 1841 the largest single community in Jerusalem.    

1000 AD: Jews take part in the defence of Haifa against the Crusades

1099:AD: Jews take part in the defence of Jerusalem against the Crusaders 

1211: Several Rabbis from France and England settle in Jerusalem 

1267: Maimonides arrives in Jerusalem and establishes a synagogue .  During the next 500 years, Jerusalem is reinstated as a centre of Jewish learning.

In 1500, there were an estimated 10,000 Jews living in the Safed region

1563: Establishment of a Hebrew printing press in Jerusalem, the first printing press on the Asian Continent

By 1880 the Jews formed the majority of the population Jerusalem      

During the 17th and 18th centuries, many Jerusalem Jews, scholars and rabbis, travelled from Jerusalem to teach in Jewish communities elsewhere, and also to seek alms and charity for the poorer members of their own community.  there was also a regular movement of families, in both directions, between Jerusalem and several towns of the eastern Mediterranean region

Jewish villages in Israel 1855--1914...

Deganya
Jerusalem
Safed
Tiberias
Kinneret
Merhavya
Zikhron Yacov
Ekron
Mikveh Israel
Rishon le-Zion
Ben Shemen
Rehovot
Hulda
Kastinia
Artuf
Hebron
Ruhama
Beer-Toviya
Hartuv
Gedera
Kfar Uriya
Motza
Nes Ziona
Beer Yaakov
Nahalat Yehuda
Mahane Yehuda
Ein Ganim
Petah Tikvah
Kfar Sava
Kfar Mahal
Hadera
Gan Shmuel
Nahliel
Karkur
Givat Ada
Bat Shelomo
Tantura
Shefeiya
Yavneel
Beit Gan
Kfar Tova
Poriya
Sejera
Menahemya
Beitanya
Mizpa
Kfar Hittim
Bnei Yehuda
Mishmar Hayarden
Ayelet Hashashar
Ein Zeitim
Metulla
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/GilbertsThe-Routledge-History-Historical-Hardcover/dp/B0041CNUIC/ref=sr_1_24?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1333126978&sr=1-24]Amazon.com: Martin Gilbert'sThe Routledge Atlas of Jewish History (Routledge Historical Atlases) [Hardcover](2010): M., (Author) Gilbert: Books[/ame]


----------



## SAYIT (May 12, 2012)

theliq said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > JStone -
> ...



Really, Princess? Palestine was never Jewish? I just know you're gonna provide a link for that camel crap, right?


----------



## Saigon (May 12, 2012)

The myth. 



JStone said:


> Most Israeli Jews are indigenous to the Near East.  /QUOTE]
> 
> The reality:
> 
> ...


----------



## JStone (May 12, 2012)

Saigon said:


> The myth.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Lipush (May 12, 2012)

JStone said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > The myth.
> ...


----------



## JStone (May 12, 2012)

Lipush said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...


----------



## Lipush (May 12, 2012)

JStone said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > JStone said:
> ...


----------



## JStone (May 12, 2012)

Lipush said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...


----------



## Lipush (May 12, 2012)

JStone said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > JStone said:
> ...


----------



## JStone (May 12, 2012)

Lipush said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...


----------



## docmauser1 (May 12, 2012)

theliq said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...


I don't think he'll appreciate being called that.


----------



## docmauser1 (May 12, 2012)

ima said:


> _"This message is hidden because docmauser1 is on your ignore list." Ahhh, life is good._


Indeed, less drivel for me to contend with.


----------



## Saigon (May 12, 2012)

JStone said:


> Repeating the same mistake doesn't make it correct, it merely shows your own self-defeat.



Ok, I'm calling troll on this one....there is no way JStone could post that without irony, is there?


----------



## rhodescholar (May 12, 2012)

ima said:


> You mean like most of the Israelis who aren't native to the area either?



Asshole, if most israelis and most arabs are immigrants to the area - why would the arabs have more rights than anyone else?


----------



## rhodescholar (May 12, 2012)

Saigon said:


> So if Jews have lived anywhere in the world at any time - it is then theirs, and does not belong to the 90% of the population who are not Jews?



Let me fix the question for you, idiot: 

So if arab muslims have lived anywhere in the world at any time - it is then theirs, and cannot belong to anyone else, as in dar-al islam?


----------



## JStone (May 13, 2012)

Saigon said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > Repeating the same mistake doesn't make it correct, it merely shows your own self-defeat.
> ...



SAIGON



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4Vp642ERhM&feature=related]Sound-Effects - Crowd Laughing - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Saigon (May 13, 2012)

Rhodes - 

To my way of thinking - continual habitation on a piece of land is the only real claim to international legitimacy. 

I do not accept owenrship by conquest - not when Iraq invades Kuwait, or when Israel occupies the West Bank.

btw. Please try and limit and abuse and name-calling. If you need to do that to feel good, it suggests to me you don't have a great grasp of the topic. 

btw. Would you mind telling us your experience/background in the Middle East on the other thread? I am trying to restrict my discussions now to people who are genuinely interested in this topic, and not just posting gossip and hate speech.


----------



## JStone (May 13, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Rhodes -
> 
> To my way of thinking - continual habitation on a piece of land is the only real claim to international legitimacy.
> 
> ...







Palesteenian Hamas Minister of the Interior Fathi Hammad, Al-Hekma TV [Egypt]: "Half of the Palestiniains are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis"


> Brothers, there are 1.8 million of us in Gaza. Allah be praised, we all have Arab roots and every Palestinian in Gaza and throughout Palestine can prove his Arab roots--whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere.
> 
> Personally, half my family is Egyptian.  We are all like that.
> 
> ...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAfENxzv2mc]Hamas Interior Minister Slams Egypt over Fuel Shortage in Gaza Strip: We are Egyptians! - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 13, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Rhodes -
> 
> To my way of thinking - continual habitation on a piece of land is the only real claim to international legitimacy.
> 
> ...



I agree 100%.

The League of Nations created the state of Palestine and defined its borders in 1922. All of the people whose *normal residence* was inside those borders at that time officially became Palestinians. I can't see how anyone could argue that.


----------



## JStone (May 13, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Rhodes -
> ...





"Rep System Guidelines: Our reputation system is designed to provide a feedback and credibility mechanism."

P F Tinmore Rep Power: 0
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,512
"PF Tinmore is off the scale"


----------



## Saigon (May 13, 2012)

JStone - 

Once again, you seem to be spamming your own thread in lieu of actually mustering a coherent statement. 

Is there an adult in the house who could help you with your posting?


----------



## theliq (May 13, 2012)

JStone said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > If we go back far enough in our geneology, most Christians have a Jewish bloodline.  The same as Jesus, John the Baptist & the apostles.  To hate Jews is to hate their own heritage.
> ...



Well  You have always been an ununified mob really,hense the 12 tribes of which there has never been real unification of the Jews, even today you are basically a country of different people from different parts of the world....who have little in common....apart from this artificial country called Israel.....non of you would be FULL-BLOOD Jews,if we took a look at your past.........and few related to each other. So your so called PURITY BULLSHIT is just that....you are bitsas like the rest of mankind a bit of this and a bit of that.


Palestinians would have a stonger claim of being pureblooded.


theliq bring into focus the future of jews


----------



## ima (May 13, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > So if Jews have lived anywhere in the world at any time - it is then theirs, and does not belong to the 90% of the population who are not Jews?
> ...



So if someone is raping another person somewhere in the world, that makes it ok for you to rape someone where you are?


----------



## docmauser1 (May 13, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> _The League of Nations created the state of Palestine and defined its borders in 1922. All of the people whose normal residence was inside those borders at that time officially became Palestinians. I can't see how anyone could argue that._


Yes, we can! So, who was that sultan, emir, sheikh, president, prime-minister of that "palestine"?


----------



## docmauser1 (May 13, 2012)

ima said:


> _So if someone is raping another person somewhere in the world, that makes it ok for you to rape someone where you are?_


Ah, poor raped palistanians drivel.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 13, 2012)

Everything J.Stone says here is all true.  Fact is there were no Christians during the lifetime of Jesus.  Nor were there any Muslim Palestinians who later stole Israel's land.





theliq said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


----------



## Saigon (May 13, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Fact is there were no Christians during the lifetime of Jesus.



I'll let you think about that one for a few minutes and correct it yourself. 

Think about names like Paul, Matthew, Peter...were they Christians?


----------



## Hossfly (May 13, 2012)

Saigon said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Fact is there were no Christians during the lifetime of Jesus.
> ...


Definition of CHRISTIAN



1

 a: one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ


----------



## Hossfly (May 13, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


They were Christians by definition only.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 13, 2012)

It is you who needs to think this over.  Jesus was born & died a Jew.  Only after his life on earth did Christianity begin by his followers, those who believed in Jesus as the promised Messiah of the Jews.





Saigon said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Fact is there were no Christians during the lifetime of Jesus.
> ...


----------



## JStone (May 13, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> It is you who needs to think this over.  Jesus was born & died a Jew.  Only after his life on earth did Christianity begin by his followers, those who believed in Jesus as the promised Messiah of the Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The Jesus Movement was a Jewish sect through 100 years after Jesus's death.  In fact, in order to follow Jesus, converts needed to convert to Judaism.

John The Baptist was Jewish.  His "baptism" was a Jewish ritual of purity.

The 4 Gospels were Jewish, too, as was Paul


----------



## rhodescholar (May 13, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Rhodes -
> 
> To my way of thinking - continual habitation on a piece of land is the only real claim to international legitimacy.
> 
> ...



Continual habitation is not a legal foundation for claiming land anywhere on earth - just as a squatter cannot simply move into a building or onto someone else's land who happens to not be living there at the time - and claim it is theirs.

And if you do not accept ownership by conquest, you better start complaining about every country on earth - there is not a single one who has not occupied or is occupying the land of some group who they conquered at least part of it to attain their current dominion, arab muslims in particular.

It is only the left-wing media-fed frenzy along with plain old anti-semitism that props up the arab-israeli conflict to the level of mainstream attention it receives.

Further, to those of rational thought, it must seem rather strange that only the pal arabs have all of these "special" dispensations; they have their very own UN org dedicated to keeping them fed and supplied, they are the only refugee group ever created with their own distinct definition, etc.  Clearly, there are huge dollars and political machinery - primarily directed from the decrepit arab muslim world using malleable, clueless lackeys in the West - that have worked to ensure that the worldwide political focus remains on israel, no matter how much worse others behave.

The fact that this section of the forum retains few if any threads on syria - a nation literally massacring its civilians daily - but many on israel.


----------



## JStone (May 13, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Rhodes -
> ...



From a strictly legal standpoint, the Jews have prior possession to Israel dating back 3000 years when Israeli sovereignty was established which Jews have never relinquished to today.  While Israel has been occupied through the years by foreign invaders, Jews have maintained a continual presence in Israel for 3 millenia

First rule of property law: First in time, first in right


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 13, 2012)

And those pesky Palestinians are not just going to walk away from their country.


----------



## JStone (May 13, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> And those pesky Palestinians are not just going to walk away from their country.:clp2::cap2::clp2:



Those fakestinians are merely rebranded arabs from egypt and saudi arabia who migrated to Israel a few years ago to glomb off of Jewish success.  This is no secret

That's why you can't name "their" country, because, they never had one., except their countries of origin

No reputation points for you


----------



## MJB12741 (May 13, 2012)

You bring up a valid point.  Why not more on what is going on in Syria?  Middle East Muslim terrorists massacring each other in record numbers.  What greater contribution to peace, mankind & civilization?  Long live the Arab Spring.




rhodescholar said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Rhodes -
> ...


----------



## JStone (May 13, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> You bring up a valid point.  Why not more on what is going on in Syria?  Middle East Muslim terrorists massacring each other in record numbers.  What greater contribution to peace, mankind & civilization?  Long live the Arab Spring.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



About 2 million have been slaughtered in Darfur thus far by the religion of murderers with barely a peep


----------



## ima (May 13, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> You bring up a valid point.  Why not more on what is going on in Syria?  Middle East Muslim terrorists massacring each other in record numbers.  What greater contribution to peace, mankind & civilization?  Long live the Arab Spring.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Syria has no Jews, so the media doesn't focus on that. And with no Jews AND no oil, the US/Haliburton isn't interested either.


----------



## Hossfly (May 13, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > You bring up a valid point.  Why not more on what is going on in Syria?  Middle East Muslim terrorists massacring each other in record numbers.  What greater contribution to peace, mankind & civilization?  Long live the Arab Spring.
> ...


Don't bet on it.


----------



## JStone (May 13, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > You bring up a valid point.  Why not more on what is going on in Syria?  Middle East Muslim terrorists massacring each other in record numbers.  What greater contribution to peace, mankind & civilization?  Long live the Arab Spring.
> ...



How many mirrors have cracked when you've looked into them, ugly face?


----------



## ima (May 13, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



I wouldn't bet against Haliburton in a million years. They're probably trying right now to cost out invading Iran, versus how many soldiers will die, versus how much money they make. If their calculations end in an obscene amount of profit for themselves, we'll invade Iran as soon as there's a republican prez.


----------



## JStone (May 13, 2012)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



Halliburton didn't make you so physically repulsive.  Why be angry at them?


----------



## Hossfly (May 13, 2012)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


I was primarily speaking of the US. Haliburton, an oilfield services company, shouldn't be part of the equation. I think you're just blowing smoke so you can hear the wind whistle thru your ears.


----------



## rhodescholar (May 13, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> And those pesky Palestinians are not just going to walk away from their country.



What country is that, fuckbrain?

You're a little late, they already walked away from syria, egypt and jordan about 75 years ago.


----------



## rhodescholar (May 13, 2012)

ima said:


> Syria has no Jews, so the media doesn't focus on that. And with no Jews AND no oil, the US/Haliburton isn't interested either.



That doesn't make sense, since the lie about jews controlling the media would fall flat.  If jews control the media, they'd ensure that there'd be no coverage of israel, since if they were actually oppressing the arabs, they'd want no one to know about it.

But that's an example of the mental illness that the jew/israel-hating vermin suffers from, the jews are guilty even if the claim is wrong, and russia was a good example of the jew-hating filth attacking them both ways: they are communists, so they are behind the powers that want to control the country, but they are also greedy money grubbers, who want all the wealth.

This is a good example of the lies that filth like tinhead proffer against jews - they control the wealth and media, yet are somehow in the press non-stop; well which lie is it?


----------



## MJB12741 (May 13, 2012)

Palestinians never had a "country" of their own.  And they were massacred & driven out of their indigenous Arab homelands.  Gosh I wonder why?





rhodescholar said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > And those pesky Palestinians are not just going to walk away from their country.
> ...


----------



## JStone (May 13, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Palestinians never had a "country" of their own.  And they were massacred & driven out of their indigenous Arab homelands.  Gosh I wonder why?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Fakestinians' countries are Egypt, Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries they originated from when they migrated to Israel in the 20th century to glomb off Israeli success.

Half of all pestilinians are named al-Masri, which means The Egyptian in Arabic.  I've never met anyone named al-palestini


----------



## theliq (May 13, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Syria has no Jews, so the media doesn't focus on that. And with no Jews AND no oil, the US/Haliburton isn't interested either.
> ...


Well they tried to repress ALL media in the past but their deeds we so horrendous that they failed,with todays technology it is impossible,which is a good thing.

Anyway most throughout the world realise that the majority of Jews in Israel are either illegal or chidren of Illegal immigrants...and there is little in common with many of them,that's why there is such division between them.

OK I know already I'm RIGHT AGAIN


----------



## theliq (May 13, 2012)

Lipush said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



Hi Lips,I am glad that you feel the way you do,your parents hopefully have given you the security and happiness that every child needs in their formative years....I have mentioned before to you, how great you are looking after members of your family,through your pubecent years and onwards(not an easy thing).

The problem is that many adopted children in later years desire to meet their natural(for use of a better word)parents as they feel that there is something missing in their lives.

This road can be great for all parties but can also be a disaster and even more disruptive to the adopted child/now grown up.

I never say anyone is adopted because it's often used as negative term..and you are completely correct "there is NO difference"...and who cares as long as everyone is happy.

You are pretty well ajusted as a person,which shows me you parents did a great job moreover it tell me a lot about the person you are....which you know I admire.

I may not always agree with you but compared to the majority of the rabble on here ....... I do RESPECT YOU. steve


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## JStone (May 13, 2012)

theliq said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



Eminent Historian Sir Martin Gilbert, Author of 10 Books on Middle East History and History of Jerusalem

Jerusalem became the capital of the first Jewish kingdom in 1004 BC, over 3000 years ago.  With the brief exception of the Crusader period, no other non-Jewish ruling power of Jerusalem made the city a capital but it was consistently a capital for the Jews.  Driven into partial exile by Nebuchadnezzar in 586 BC, the Jews returned fifty years later and rebuilt Jerusalem as their capital.  It was their capital, too, under the Maccabees.  The unity of the city achieved in 1967, then, was more than a quirk of military geography.  It was the fulfillment of unbroken historical longings.

In 1210, following the defeat of the Crusaders, groups of Jews began to return Jerusalem.  Henceforth, without interruption, and in every decade, individual Jews and groups of Jews reached the city from the Maghreb [north Africa] and elsewhere forming an ever-growing community.  Driven out by the Tartar invasion of 1244, they had returned by 1250.  Three times a day the Jews repeated in their prayers, "And to Jerusalem Thy city mayest thou return to mercy, and dwell in its midst as Thou hast spoken, and rebuild it soon in our days for evermore

Areas from which some 300 Rabbis travelled to Jerusalem, Acre and Ramla in 1210 AD, to strengthen the Jewish communities weakened by the Crusader massacres and expulsions.  Jews are known to have traveled from throughout the region to Jerusalem [after 1267], settling permanently and forming by 1841 the largest single community in Jerusalem.    

1000 AD: Jews take part in the defence of Haifa against the Crusades

1099:AD: Jews take part in the defence of Jerusalem against the Crusaders 

1211: Several Rabbis from France and England settle in Jerusalem 

1267: Maimonides arrives in Jerusalem and establishes a synagogue .  During the next 500 years, Jerusalem is reinstated as a centre of Jewish learning.

In 1500, there were an estimated 10,000 Jews living in the Safed region

1563: Establishment of a Hebrew printing press in Jerusalem, the first printing press on the Asian Continent

By 1880 the Jews formed the majority of the population Jerusalem      

During the 17th and 18th centuries, many Jerusalem Jews, scholars and rabbis, travelled from Jerusalem to teach in Jewish communities elsewhere, and also to seek alms and charity for the poorer members of their own community.  there was also a regular movement of families, in both directions, between Jerusalem and several towns of the eastern Mediterranean region

Jewish villages in Israel 1855--1914...

Deganya
Jerusalem
Safed
Tiberias
Kinneret
Merhavya
Zikhron Yacov
Ekron
Mikveh Israel
Rishon le-Zion
Ben Shemen
Rehovot
Hulda
Kastinia
Artuf
Hebron
Ruhama
Beer-Toviya
Hartuv
Gedera
Kfar Uriya
Motza
Nes Ziona
Beer Yaakov
Nahalat Yehuda
Mahane Yehuda
Ein Ganim
Petah Tikvah
Kfar Sava
Kfar Mahal
Hadera
Gan Shmuel
Nahliel
Karkur
Givat Ada
Bat Shelomo
Tantura
Shefeiya
Yavneel
Beit Gan
Kfar Tova
Poriya
Sejera
Menahemya
Beitanya
Mizpa
Kfar Hittim
Bnei Yehuda
Mishmar Hayarden
Ayelet Hashashar
Ein Zeitim
Metulla
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/GilbertsThe-Routledge-History-Historical-Hardcover/dp/B0041CNUIC/ref=sr_1_24?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1333126978&sr=1-24]Amazon.com: Martin Gilbert&#39;sThe Routledge Atlas of Jewish History (Routledge Historical Atlases) [Hardcover](2010): M., (Author) Gilbert: Books[/ame]


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## theliq (May 13, 2012)

steve......but cut down on the repetition and reply to other posters actual comments


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## theliq (May 13, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Everything J.Stone says here is all true.  Fact is there were no Christians during the lifetime of Jesus.  Nor were there any Muslim Palestinians who later stole Israel's land.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You forgot to mention the NOSTICS


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## theliq (May 13, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> It is you who needs to think this over.  Jesus was born & died a Jew.  Only after his life on earth did Christianity begin by his followers, those who believed in Jesus as the promised Messiah of the Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



BECAUSE THE JEWS NEVER DID  just sayin


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## theliq (May 13, 2012)

JStone said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > JStone said:
> ...


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## theliq (May 13, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


 The thought of thousands of illegal immigrant Jews and the thought of dispossesion,one would have thought.....what you haven't mentioned is that the ZIONIST you know the collaborators with the NAZIS were waging an illegal TERRORIST WAR AT THE TIME.

I have met many Jewish families that have always got on with Palestinians pre 1948 and after...the thought the aparthied the Israelis used against the Palestinians was criminal eg SEPERATE BUSES FOR JEWS AND PALESTINIANS for a start...you see Lips you always only tell one side of the story,the side you have been indoctorinated to believe.   I'm right but I'll say no more for now


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## JStone (May 13, 2012)

theliq said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



Pestilinians are illegal immigrants.

Palesteenian Hamas Minister of the Interior Fathi Hammad, Al-Hekma TV [Egypt]: "Half of the Palestiniains are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis"


> Brothers, there are 1.8 million of us in Gaza. Allah be praised, we all have Arab roots and every Palestinian in Gaza and throughout Palestine can prove his Arab roots--whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere.
> 
> Personally, half my family is Egyptian.  We are all like that.
> 
> ...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAfENxzv2mc]Hamas Interior Minister Slams Egypt over Fuel Shortage in Gaza Strip: We are Egyptians! - YouTube[/ame]

Winston Churchill, Secretary of "Palestine" During British Mandate to House of Commons, Parliamentary Debates, 23 May 1939


> So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population.
> Churchill and the Jews | Martin Gilbert | Macmillan


----------



## theliq (May 13, 2012)

JStone said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



all the leaves are brown,and the skies are grey


----------



## JStone (May 13, 2012)

*BBC: How Israel Became A High-Tech Hub*


> Tiny Israel, a country embroiled in conflicts for decades, has managed to transform itself from a stretch of farmland into a high-tech wonder
> 
> Israel currently has almost 4,000 active technology start-ups - more than any other country outside the United States, according to Israel Venture Capital Research Centre
> 
> ...


 
*The Economist Magazine: Arab World Self-Doomed To Failure*


> WHAT went wrong with the Arab world? Why is it so stuck behind the times? It is not an obviously unlucky region. Fatly endowed with oil, and with its people sharing a rich cultural, religious and linguistic heritage, it is faced neither with endemic poverty nor with ethnic conflict. But, with barely an exception, its autocratic rulers, whether presidents or kings, give up their authority only when they die; its elections are a sick joke; half its people are treated as lesser legal and economic beings, and more than half its young, burdened by joblessness and stifled by conservative religious tradition, are said to want to get out of the place as soon as they can.
> 
> One in five Arabs still live on less than $2 a day. And, over the past 20 years, growth in income per head, at an annual rate of 0.5%, was lower than anywhere else in the world except sub-Saharan Africa. At this rate, it will take the average Arab 140 years to double his income, a target that some regions are set to reach in less than ten years. Stagnant growth, together with a fast-rising population, means vanishing jobs. Around 12m people, or 15% of the labour force, are already unemployed, and on present trends the number could rise to 25m by 2010.
> 
> ...


----------



## rhodescholar (May 13, 2012)

theliq said:


> Well they tried to repress ALL media in the past but their deeds we so horrendous that they failed,with todays technology it is impossible,which is a good thing.



To those with any brains, see what I mean?  This chimp is too stupid to grasp that if the jews did indeed control the media, this manufactured conflict would not be in the headlines every day - but the chimp is too stupid to understand the circular failure of the argument.  



> Anyway most throughout the world realise that the majority of Jews in Israel are either illegal or chidren of Illegal immigrants...and there is little in common with many of them,that's why there is such division between them.



Most people have no clue or are stupid - like you - but once they do a bit of research, they realize that the original solution to split the region into two nations for two peoples was ideal - except that the arab muslim filth will not nor ever tolerate the sovereign rights of others, so they of course rejected the split, as they had to have control over ALL of the land.



> OK I know already I'm RIGHT AGAIN



The only time a moron like you would ever say something accurate is if you read one of my posts out loud.


----------



## rhodescholar (May 13, 2012)

theliq said:


> [The thought of thousands of illegal immigrant Jews and the thought of dispossesion,one would have thought.....what you haven't mentioned is that the ZIONIST you know the collaborators with the NAZIS were waging an illegal TERRORIST WAR AT THE TIME.



Fuckbrain, when do you plan on leaving Australia and giving it back to the aborigines?


----------



## rhodescholar (May 13, 2012)

theliq said:


> all the leaves are brown,and the skies are grey



The requisite non-answer from the resident fucking idiot.  The arabs are just so lucky to have someone so "intelligent" and "articulate" to defend them, no wonder they've lived in shithole dumps for the past 70 years with no hope for a better future any time soon.


----------



## JStone (May 13, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > all the leaves are brown,and the skies are grey
> ...



Arabs doing real well.   Too much wife beating and honor killing, not enough thinking and working. 

Widespread Poverty Throughout Arab Muslim World


> Two in five Arabs live in poverty as a widespread lack of basic elements of human security, such as access to clean water, freedom from hunger, democracy and a robust rule of law, is denying citizens of Arab countries the ability to fulfil their potential, a UN-sponsored report has said.
> 
> "One in five people in the Arab region lives below the internationally recognised poverty threshold of $2 a day as poverty and hunger persist in the Arab region despite its comparative affluence. However, a significantly larger proportion of Arabs in countries studied by the report, however, lives under nationally determined poverty lines and still cannot afford bare necessities," said the Arab Human Development Report 2009: Challenges to Human Security in the Arab Countries.
> 
> ...


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## MJB12741 (May 13, 2012)

LMAO!  Yeah right.  The Palestinians have it so bad in Israel that most of them prefer Israel to having their own Palestinian State.  Oh well, considering what Palestinians have achieved on their own, who can blame them?




theliq said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 13, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> LMAO!  Yeah right.  The Palestinians have it so bad in Israel that most of them prefer Israel to having their own Palestinian State.  Oh well, considering what Palestinians have achieved on their own, who can blame them?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Palestine was a self sufficient country until Israel stole, bombed, and bulldozed their stuff.

Now we have two countries on welfare.

Good plan???


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## MJB12741 (May 13, 2012)

In your dreams.  Send us a link on this "self sufficient country of Palestine" you speak of.  





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > LMAO!  Yeah right.  The Palestinians have it so bad in Israel that most of them prefer Israel to having their own Palestinian State.  Oh well, considering what Palestinians have achieved on their own, who can blame them?
> ...


----------



## JStone (May 13, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > LMAO!  Yeah right.  The Palestinians have it so bad in Israel that most of them prefer Israel to having their own Palestinian State.  Oh well, considering what Palestinians have achieved on their own, who can blame them?
> ...


"Rep System Guidelines: Our reputation system is designed to provide a feedback and credibility mechanism."

P F Tinmore Rep Power: 0
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,512
"PF Tinmore is off the scale"




*John F. Kennedy *


> When the first Zionist conference met in 1897, Palestine was a neglected wasteland
> 
> I first saw Palestine in 1939. There the neglect and ruin left by centuries of Ottoman [Muslim] misrule were slowly being transformed by miracles of [Jewish] labor and sacrifice. But Palestine was still a land of promise in 1939, rather than a land of fulfillment. I returned in 1951 to see the grandeur of Israel
> 
> ...


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## Saigon (May 13, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > all the leaves are brown,and the skies are grey
> ...



Oh, yeah, places like Bahrain, Dubai, Kuwait and Abu Dhabi are so poor....!

Can you remind us what the average per capita income is in those countries again, please?

btw, Don't forget to tell us your personal connection with the ME on that thread. Few of your pals here had ever been within a thousand miles of Israel - but I have hope one of you will prove worth talking to yet!!


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## JStone (May 13, 2012)

Saigon said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



SAIGON






*Widespread Poverty Throughout Arab Muslim World*


> Two in five Arabs live in poverty as a widespread lack of basic elements of human security, such as access to clean water, freedom from hunger, democracy and a robust rule of law, is denying citizens of Arab countries the ability to fulfil their potential, a UN-sponsored report has said.
> 
> "One in five people in the Arab region lives below the internationally recognised poverty threshold of $2 a day as poverty and hunger persist in the Arab region despite its comparative affluence. However, a significantly larger proportion of Arabs in countries studied by the report, however, lives under nationally determined poverty lines and still cannot afford bare necessities," said the Arab Human Development Report 2009: Challenges to Human Security in the Arab Countries.
> 
> ...


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## Saigon (May 13, 2012)

JStone - 

As I am sure you realise yourself - the point at which posters who have never been within 1,000kms of the ME start telling people who have lived and worked there what it is like - we have passed from idiocy to self-satire. 

My guess is that you are actually a Pro-Palestinian troll, just looking for attention.


----------



## JStone (May 13, 2012)

Saigon said:


> JStone -
> 
> As I am sure you realise yourself - the point at which posters who have never been within 1,000kms of the ME start telling people who have lived and worked there what it is like - we have passed from idiocy to self-satire.
> 
> My guess is that you are actually a Pro-Palestinian troll, just looking for attention.



SAIGON






*UN: Arab World Rife with Illiteracy & Lacks Innovation*


> U.N. report finds one third of Arabs illiterate and only $10 per person spent on scientific research. The level of education, research and innovation in the Arab world is appalling, a new United Nations report has claimed.
> 
> The report, produced as part of a partnership between the United Nations Development Program and the United Arab Emirates-based Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum Foundation, found that despite the efforts of scientists and researchers throughout the region, the Arab world makes up only 1.1% of global scientific publishing and the low level of investment into research has led to relatively low levels of innovation throughout the Arab world.
> 
> ...


----------



## Saigon (May 13, 2012)

JStone - 

I tell you what - I'l give you a chance to prove that you are not a Palestinian troll. 

Present your best point here....your single strongest case on any element of this topic. 

Give me your absolute best shot. 

And let's discuss that.

All of the other posters who hadn't been to the Middle East or had no conection with it, I put on ignore yesterday to establish a kind of minimum level of credible debate, but I do so enjoy reading your train wrecks I had to give you a chance....!


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## JStone (May 13, 2012)

Saigon said:


> JStone -
> 
> I tell you what - I'l give you a chance to prove that you are not a Palestinian troll.
> 
> ...



Former PLO Leader Zuheir Mohsen 


> The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.
> Zuheir Mohsen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Saigon (May 13, 2012)

Jstone - 

Ok, so that is your best, your strongest point? 

Ok, let's deal with that. 

Have you heard of pan-Arabism?

Pan-Arabism was very much triumphed during the 1970s under Nasser. He talked very much about there being one Arabic people, with many countries. His rhetoric was informed by the Soviet concept of 'one country, many peoples' only inverted. 

Mohsen's point is that the peoples of Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Palestine are all very closely related. They speak one language, have family ties, and live on a relatively small area of land. Especially Jordan and Palestine - some 50%+ of people in Jordan have Palestinian blood. So the line between Palestine and Jordan is less ethnic than geographical. It is much like the Swiss, Austrians and Germans - they are very much a family of nations with a lot of cultural and linguistic ties to each other. 

So Mohsen's argument (which I don't personally support) is that Palestine is a piece in a greater puzzle is not so different for me than the wish for people in Denmark to have close ties with Sweden, or France to Belgium, based on history, language and culture. 

I don't think Mohsen LITERALLY means Palestinians do not exist - only that the greater Arabic concept is, for him, a greater and deeper tie. 

Is that about right?

By all means discuss this in your own words, and without the usual spam and abuse, and maybe we can have a sensible adult discussion.


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## JStone (May 13, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Jstone -
> 
> Ok, so that is your best, your strongest point?
> 
> ...



SAIGON






*Arab Commentator Azmi Bishara * 


> Well, I dont think there is a Palestinian nation at all. I think there is an Arab nation. I always thought so and I did not change my mind. I do not think there is a Palestinian nation, I think its a colonialist invention - Palestinian nation. When were there any Palestinians? Where did it come from? I think there is an Arab nation. I never turned to be a Palestinian nationalist, despite of my decisive struggle against the occupation. I think that until the end of the 19th century, Palestine was the south of Greater Syria


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3n5-yG-6dU]Professor Azmi Bishara: There Is No "Palestinian Nation", Never Was ! - YouTube[/ame]


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## Saigon (May 13, 2012)

JStone - 

The point has been addressed. Please comment on what has been presented. 

Otherwise I think it will be fairly clear that you really are a Palestinian troll.


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## JStone (May 14, 2012)

Saigon said:


> JStone -
> 
> The point has been addressed. Please comment on what has been presented.
> 
> Otherwise I think it will be fairly clear that you really are a Palestinian troll.



Former PLO Leader Zuheir Mohsen


> The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.
> Zuheir Mohsen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 14, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> In your dreams.  Send us a link on this "self sufficient country of Palestine" you speak of.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In 1615 the English traveler George Sandys described Palestine as "a land that flows with milk and honey; in the midst as it were of the habitable world, and under a temperate clime; adorned with beautiful mountains and luxurious valleys; the rocks producing excellent waters; and no part empty of delight or profit."(4)

A British missionary who lived in Beirut and visited Palestine in 1859 described the southern coastal area as "a very ocean of wheat," and the British Consul in Jerusalem, James Finn, reported that "the fields would do credit to British farming."(5)

The German geographer Alexander Scholch concluded that between 1856 and 1882 "Palestine produced a relatively large agricultural surplus which was marketed in neighboring countries, such as Egypt and Lebanon, and increasingly exported to Europe. These exports included wheat, barley, dura, maise, sesame, olive oil, soap, oranges, vegetables and cotton. Among the European importers of Palestinian produce were France, England, Turkey, Greece, Italy and Malta."(6)

Lawrence Oliphant, who visited Palestine in 1887, wrote that Palestine's Valley of Esdraelon was "a huge green lake of waving wheat, with its village-crowned mounds rising from it like islands; and it presents one of the most striking pictures of luxuriant fertility which it is possible to conceive."(7) This Palestinian wheat had historically played an important part in international commerce. According to Paul Masson, a French economic historian, "wheat shipments from the Palestinian port of Acre had helped to save southern France from famine on numerous occasions in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries."(8)

Agricultural techniques in Palestine, especially in citriculture, were among the most advanced in the world long before the first Zionist settlers came to its shores. In 1856, the American consul in Jerusalem, Henry Gillman, "outlined reasons why orange growers in Florida would find it advantageous to adopt Palestinian techniques of grafting directly onto lemon trees."^ In 1893, the British Consul advised his government of the value of importing "young trees procured from Jaffa" to improve production in Australia and South Africa.(10)

Chapter 2: Encyclopedia of the Palestine Problem

BTW, when did Palestine start receiving welfare?


----------



## Saigon (May 14, 2012)

JStone - 

So you are admitting that you are a pro-Palestinian troll, right?

I just want to be clear about this. 

Feel free to PM me if you prefer.


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## JStone (May 14, 2012)

Saigon said:


> JStone -
> 
> So you are admitting that you are a pro-Palestinian troll, right?
> 
> ...


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## Saigon (May 14, 2012)

JStone - 

It's a genuine question. 

When I see a poster who has never been to the Middle East telling a poster in Oman that he needs to "get out more", my first thought is - TROLL ALERT!!!! 

I do not honestly believe that any adult anywhere in the world could post that without tears of laughter pouring down their face. 

So you are either the least self-aware person on earth, or you are a troll. 

Either way - you "political views" (as you prove again here when you refuse to discuss what you consider your strongest single argument) amount to self-abuse.


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## JStone (May 14, 2012)

Saigon said:


> JStone -
> 
> It's a genuine question.
> 
> ...


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## Saigon (May 14, 2012)

JStone - 

Given the situation - I think that is probably the best respnse possible. 

My assumption from this point on is that you are a sock-puppet, and actually believe nothing that you post. Good luck to you, I say.


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## theliq (May 14, 2012)

saigon said:


> jstone -
> 
> given the situation - i think that is probably the best respnse possible.
> 
> My assumption from this point on is that you are a sock-puppet, and actually believe nothing that you post. Good luck to you, i say.



told ya so


----------



## Saigon (May 14, 2012)

theliq said:


> saigon said:
> 
> 
> > jstone -
> ...



You did, indeed! 

The best thing to do with attention whores is ignore them...maybe if enough people ignore JStone he'll stop the act and post like a normal person eventually.


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## thetor (May 14, 2012)

JStone said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > JStone -
> ...


 we know you are. tor


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## ima (May 14, 2012)

Saigon said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > saigon said:
> ...



JewStone is best on everyone's "ignore list". I always get a laugh when I post something, then that troll posts a response 3 seconds later that I can't see and he knows it. I know that that bakes his cookies.


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## Hossfly (May 14, 2012)

Saigon said:


> JStone -
> 
> So you are admitting that you are a pro-Palestinian troll, right?
> 
> ...


If you had seen previous threads you would notice we are all Palisimians. Even the posters born in Israel,Palestine,Lebanon,Iran,Pakistan,etc Also some who have worked and lived or were in the military stationed in the ME. There are also posters of those catagories that read your drivel that haven't replied but they will soon pounce upon you like a duck on a Junebug. (or a mouse) Be advised.


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## JStone (May 14, 2012)

ima said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



Ignore shows self-defeat.


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## Saigon (May 14, 2012)

JStone - 

Ignore also means you are in need of a few act! 

Everyone knows you are a sock puppet - you might as well quit while you're behind. 

PS. The moment when you finaly blew it for me was telling that guy in Oman that he needed to get out more. I did piss myself laughing, but there was no way on earth any adult could have posted that with a straight face - it was just TOO funny!!


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## JStone (May 14, 2012)

Saigon said:


> JStone -
> 
> Ignore also means you are in need of a few act!
> 
> ...



Ignore means you are ill-equipped to debate me given you know less than zero about the subject matter, as I have demostrated, repeatedly.

No worries, I'll continue to demolish you.


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## MJB12741 (May 14, 2012)

Your concern over JStone is overwhelming.  You act like JStone owns you.  Sure hope I can gain that kind of respect from you.






Saigon said:


> JStone -
> 
> Ignore also means you are in need of a few act!
> 
> ...


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## JStone (May 14, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Your concern over JStone is overwhelming.  You act like JStone owns you.  Sure hope I can gain that kind of respect from you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I do.


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## Saigon (May 14, 2012)

JStone said:


> as I have demostrated, repeatedly.



Oh, yes!

Like when you claimed the British had re-invented the word 'Palestine' earlier this century - only to find out the mandate the League of Nations passed them was called 'Palestine'!

Or when you claimed all Islamic countries use Sharia for all law - and then found only four actually do!

Or when you claimed that 10% of subjects in the Roman Empire were Jews!!!

Or when you claimed that honor killing occured right across the Islamic World - and then found it only actually occurs in places like Kurdistan, Jordan, Lebanon...and parts of Christian South America!!!

Or funniest of all - remember when you claimed there was no Christian terror....and then you heard about the Lord's Resistance Army making two million people homeless in a bid to establish a country based on the 10 commandments?!

You see what I mean I am sure - NO serious poster could be wrong so often, so totally, and so stupidly. 

You ARE a sock puppet, and of that there is no doubt.


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## Saigon (May 14, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Sure hope I can gain that kind of respect from you.



It's always fascinating to unmask a troll. 

I've seen a few in my time, and it really is interesting. (Though I was tipped off by 2 posters that JStone was a fake)

But respect is harder to come by. 

Have a go at my Middle East quiz - and if you can get half the questions right without googling, I'll definitely be more respectful of you.


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## JStone (May 14, 2012)

Saigon said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Sure hope I can gain that kind of respect from you.
> ...



I OWN you  http://www.usmessageboard.com/5280204-post485.html


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## MJB12741 (May 14, 2012)

When will Israel stop with their damn Zionist agenda of peace offerings, security fences & land concessions to Palestinians so they can stay & do what is necessary to protect & defend their country & their citizens from these terrorists?


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## theliq (May 14, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> When will Israel stop with their damn Zionist agenda of peace offerings, security fences & land concessions to Palestinians so they can stay & do what is necessary to protect & defend their country & their citizens from these terrorists?



What,the ZIONIST TERRORISTs you mean


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## JStone (May 14, 2012)

theliq said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > When will Israel stop with their damn Zionist agenda of peace offerings, security fences & land concessions to Palestinians so they can stay & do what is necessary to protect & defend their country & their citizens from these terrorists?
> ...



*John F. Kennedy: Zionists of America*


> When the first Zionist conference met in 1897, Palestine was a neglected wasteland
> 
> I first saw Palestine in 1939. There the neglect and ruin left by centuries of Ottoman [Muslim] misrule were slowly being transformed by miracles of [Jewish] labor and sacrifice. But Palestine was still a land of promise in 1939, rather than a land of fulfillment. I returned in 1951 to see the grandeur of Israel
> 
> ...


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## theliq (May 14, 2012)

JStone said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



Your complete testament above......is banal as it is cretinous.....if you think normal folk will swallow such tripe,methinks you need a straight jacket.

In a word Stoney YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT.


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## SAYIT (May 14, 2012)

theliq said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



So are you claiming the quote is bogus or that you just don't like what Kenedy said?


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## theliq (May 14, 2012)

SAYIT said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > JStone said:
> ...



You can even spell your ex Presidents name correctly.....ya dickhead. What was interesting was John K's statement re "plowshears,spears and pruning hooks" as he knew full well America had supplied then at the time state of the art weponary and Israel was ILLEGALY OBTAINING NUCLEAR CAPABILITY,but then he was the puppet of the Zionist lobby who had a load of dirt on him.

So these repetative one liners are like a media bite.......a fraction of the truth....but dickheads like you with the attention span of a flea,reality.?????????


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## JStone (May 14, 2012)

*John F. Kennedy: Zionists of America*


> When the first Zionist conference met in 1897, Palestine was a neglected wasteland
> 
> I first saw Palestine in 1939. There the neglect and ruin left by centuries of Ottoman [Muslim] misrule were slowly being transformed by miracles of [Jewish] labor and sacrifice. But Palestine was still a land of promise in 1939, rather than a land of fulfillment. I returned in 1951 to see the grandeur of Israel
> 
> ...



*John F. Kennedy, "Salute To Israel"*


> Both Israel and the United States acknowledge the supremacy of the moral law  both believe in personal as well as national liberty  and, perhaps most important, both will fight to the end to maintain that liberty
> 
> I join in this salute of Israel today because of my own deep admiration for Israel and her people  an admiration based not on hearsay, not on assumption, but on my own personal experience. For I went to Palestine in 1939; and I saw there an unhappy land...For century after century, Romans, Turks, Christians, Moslems, Pagans, British  all had conquered the Holy Land  but none could make it prosper. In the words of Israel Zangwill: The land without a people waited for the people without a land. The realm where once milk and honey flowed, and civilization flourished, was in 1939 a barren realm  barren of hope and cheer and progress as well as crops and industries  a gloomy picture for a young man paying his first visit from the United States.
> 
> ...


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## SAYIT (May 14, 2012)

theliq said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



I'll take that to mean you haven't a clue what you meant. What a surprise, Pissant.


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## Hossfly (May 14, 2012)

theliq said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...


Uh oh, spelling polizei on the prowl.


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## JStone (May 14, 2012)

> Quote: Originally Posted by theliq
> You can even spell your *ex Presidents name *correctly.....ya dickhead



Proper basic grammar is "ex-President's name" not "ex Presidents name"

That would make YOU the dickhead, dickhead!  

Worship of the pedophile Muhammad fucked up your mind, although, you no doubt were fucked up at birth


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## theliq (May 14, 2012)

JStone said:


> > Quote: Originally Posted by theliq
> > You can even spell your *ex Presidents name *correctly.....ya dickhead
> 
> 
> ...



see at least you take notice,but the sad thing is you never answer any real questions that I or others post.....so Zionist Pedo that you are,leaves as in all the leaves are brown and the skies are grey Stoney is a Pedo draped in a swastika, all your post irellevent sic,but hey what do we expect from a Fuckard like you


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## theliq (May 14, 2012)

SAYIT said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...


been looking in that mirror AGAIN IT SAYTosser


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## rhodescholar (May 14, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Oh, yeah, places like Bahrain, Dubai, Kuwait and Abu Dhabi are so poor....!  Can you remind us what the average per capita income is in those countries again, please?  btw, Don't forget to tell us your personal connection with the ME on that thread. Few of your pals here had ever been within a thousand miles of Israel - but I have hope one of you will prove worth talking to yet!!



Moron, who said a word about APC?  Are they free politically?  Are minorities/gays/women well treated?  Outside of Wall St. bank jobs there, who is moving to any of them?

China has a so-called middle class, and what asshole would ever want to move there?  WTF does money have to do with it?  Or are you just another pro-arab turd who changes the topic when cornered?

And as for APC, if a few princes have billions, and spread a few dimes around bringing the average up, it really does not mean much.  But then again, idiot pro-arab defenders cannot distinguish between concepts such as average and median.


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## rhodescholar (May 14, 2012)

Saigon said:


> JStone -
> 
> As I am sure you realise yourself - the point at which posters who have never been within 1,000kms of the ME start telling people who have lived and worked there what it is like - we have passed from idiocy to self-satire.
> 
> My guess is that you are actually a Pro-Palestinian troll, just looking for attention.



My guess is that you are in real life as fucking stupid as you are presenting yourself here.


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## theliq (May 14, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > JStone -
> ...



Rhodescholar my Ass I suggest youcommenting because it shows you R RABID and


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## rhodescholar (May 14, 2012)

Saigon said:


> JStone -
> 
> Ignore also means you are in need of a few act!
> 
> ...



You are as big a fucking moron as I've ever seen on this board, and that says A LOT given the dogshit that has passed through here over the years (some of whom appear in my sig).

I've yet to see even one rational, on-topic post from you - complete zero.


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## JStone (May 14, 2012)

theliq said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > > Quote: Originally Posted by theliq
> ...



I take "notice" that you are illiterate and lacking even basic grammar skills, like muhammad the pedophile


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## Hossfly (May 14, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > JStone -
> ...


Has theliq been at theliquor again?


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## rhodescholar (May 14, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Or when you claimed all Islamic countries use Sharia for all law - and then found only four actually do!



How many muslim-majority nations have their legal foundations based on sharia? 

List of country legal systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Looks like most to me, dipshit.



> Or when you claimed that honor killing occured right across the Islamic World - and then found it only actually occurs in places like Kurdistan, Jordan, Lebanon...and parts of Christian South America!!!



In a lot more muslim places than that, fuckbrain...



> Or funniest of all - remember when you claimed there was no Christian terror....and then you heard about the Lord's Resistance Army making two million people homeless in a bid to establish a country based on the 10 commandments?!



You're a fucking idiot.  Soon you'll be claiming the Westboro church represents all christians too, you fucking idiot.  Dig deeper, you might get lucky...


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## rhodescholar (May 14, 2012)

theliq said:


> In a word Stoney YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT.



Mental retard, when are you giving Australia back to the Aborigines?


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## theliq (May 14, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...



Well I could say Hoss,you have all driven me to drink


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## rhodescholar (May 14, 2012)

theliq said:


> Rhodescholar my Ass I suggest youcommenting because it shows you R RABID and



Ugh, the mental ward just opened its bathroom door, and the feces rolled out...


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## JStone (May 14, 2012)

> Quote: Originally Posted by theliq
> Rhodescholar my Ass *I suggest youcommenting *because it shows you R RABID and



"I suggest you commenting"?  You are unable to form a coherent thought.

Are you a cave-dweller as your pedophile muhammad had been?


----------



## theliq (May 14, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > In a word Stoney YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT.
> ...


 Well when you give Palestine back to it's rightful owners the Palestinians you DICKHEADSCUMBAG.

As the Aboriginal population is only  4 % of the AUSTRALIAN population it would be a little hard methinks.

Again YOU FAIL COCKSUCKER DUNNIE HOUSE


----------



## theliq (May 14, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Rhodescholar my Ass I suggest youcommenting because it shows you R RABID and
> ...



STOP SPEAKING OF YOURSELF IN THIS MANNER,but then you are a bit of a SHITHEAD


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## JStone (May 14, 2012)

theliq said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



The Romans invented the word palestine to rename Israel during the Roman Empire.

Palestine is a European invention which is why it does not appear in the Bible or even Quran.  Israel appears 2500 times in the Bible and Quran

Now, you know.

Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen, Professor of Religion, Boston University; Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University; Diploma in Theology, Oxford University 


> The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish rebel] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure. Its result was not: [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.
> 
> *The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory. And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.*
> Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews by Paula Fredriksen - Book - Random House


 
PBS...


> In 70 AD, after a siege marked by starvation and terror crucifixions, the Roman army broke through the walls of Jerusalem.  Not only did they kill thousands of Jews, they laid waste to the Temple, the only place on Earth, according to Biblical law, where Jews could worship God.
> 
> It was the death of the religion of Priests and sacrifices described by the Hebrew Bible.  But, it would not be the death of Judaism.  In the years ahead, some of the greatest religious minds in history would struggle to reinvent the religion of Moses and David
> 
> *But, the Jews would be forced to work during a period of almost inconceivable bloodshed and turmoil.  They would watch their people be expelled from Jerusalem on pain of death and see the name of their homeland changed from Judea to Palestine*


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLypbbijk2I&feature=relmfu]The Gifts of the Jews - YouTube[/ame]


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## MJB12741 (May 14, 2012)

It's nothing that can't be corrected as soon as he gets back on his meds again.




Hossfly said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...


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## theliq (May 14, 2012)

JStone said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > rhodescholar said:
> ...



MORE SHIT FROM THE STONE AGE MAN........who thinks Jews created Homo Erectus.....Homos maybe...Erect NEVER


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## JStone (May 14, 2012)

theliq said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



PBS...


> Specializing in the history of early Christianity, Paula Fredriksen is author of two books and over a dozen articles on early Christianity. Among her numerous awards and honors are a National Endowment for the Humanities grant for University Professors and a Lady Davis Visiting Professorship of Ancient Christianity at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. Her second book, From Jesus to Christ: The Origins of the New Testament Images of Jesus, received the Yale Press Governors' Award for Best Book in 1988. Fredriksen holds a Ph.D. in history of religions, ancient christianity, and Greco-Roman religions from Princeton University and a theology diploma from Oxford University. She served as historical consultant for the BBC production The Lives of Jesus and was a featured speaker and historical consultant for U.S. News and World Report's "The Life and Times of Jesus."
> Biographies | From Jesus To Christ - The First Christians | FRONTLINE | PBS



Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen, Professor of Religion, Boston University; Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University; Diploma in Theology, Oxford University 


> The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish rebel] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure. Its result was not: [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.
> 
> *The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory. And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.*
> Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews by Paula Fredriksen - Book - Random House


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## theliq (May 14, 2012)

JStone said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > JStone said:
> ...



HomoStoney,well a Pedo would be,


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## SAYIT (May 14, 2012)

theliq said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



Is it really true that you put a condom on your kangaroo before you Liq him?


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## JStone (May 14, 2012)

theliq said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



The Romans invented the Latin word palestine to rename Israel during the Roman Empire.  The Roman Empire no longer exists, neither does the fictional palestine.

Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. L. Michael White, Ph.D. and Master of Divinity Degrees from Yale University ....


> Responses to the Roman Destruction of Jerusalem
> 
> The Roman destruction of Jerusalem sent shock waves through the Jewish population.  The loss of life was devastating, but the destruction of Jerusalem and especially the Temple was even more devastating.
> 
> ...


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## theliq (May 14, 2012)

JStone said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > JStone said:
> ...



Homosexual Stoney I thought you'd be confusedand Pedophile Stoney.

I just don't know how mankind ever achieved anything according to you without Jewish help..IDIOT


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## theliq (May 14, 2012)

SAYIT said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...



Do YOU mean SUCK,(as in suck off a Kangaroo) Gee you are funny Tosser but not very cleverBOOORRRRRRRING AS USUAL


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## JStone (May 14, 2012)

theliq said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



PBS.


> One of the nation's foremost religion scholars, L. Michael White has a special interest in the social world of early Christians and Jews in the Greco-Roman period. His forthcoming book, Images of Jesus: The Shape of the Gospels and the Making of Tradition, deals extensively with the development of the gospels in early Christian history. White's distinguished career includes academic appointments at Yale University, Oberlin College, and University of Texas at Austin, where he currently serves as professor of classics and director of the religious studies program. White has published six books and over thirty articles and book reviews on Christianity and has received numerous awards and honors, including two National Endowment for the Humanities research fellowships. He is active as a program leader in the Society of Biblical Literature and is currently series editor for the Archaeology and Biblical Studies Series. He has served on the editorial boards of The Journal of Early Christian Studies and Biblical Archaeologist. White has served on archaeological excavations in Israel and also has done extensive field research in Italy, Greece, and Turkey. He received his Ph.D. and master of divinity degrees from Yale University.
> Biographies | From Jesus To Christ - The First Christians | FRONTLINE | PBS



Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. L. Michael White, Ph.D. and Master of Divinity Degrees from Yale University ....


> Responses to the Roman Destruction of Jerusalem
> 
> The Roman destruction of Jerusalem sent shock waves through the Jewish population.  The loss of life was devastating, but the destruction of Jerusalem and especially the Temple was even more devastating.
> 
> ...


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## SAYIT (May 14, 2012)

theliq said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



I thought you said you're smart, Pissant. I was being diplomatic but I'll take your response as a yes.


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## Saigon (May 14, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> You are as big a fucking moron as I've ever seen on this board, and that says A LOT given the dogshit that has passed through here over the years (some of whom appear in my sig).
> 
> I've yet to see even one rational, on-topic post from you - complete zero.



It's quite common for people to lose their temper after they have been proven wrong.

Again, you claimed:



> they've lived in shithole dumps for the past 70 years with no hope for a better future any time soon.



Which clearly fails to address the fact that people in Bahrain, Dubai and Kuwait enjoy an exceptional standard of living, and also that in countries like Turkey, Malaysia and Beirut we see people enjoying great lives and having a high standard of living.

I wonder if our anger stems from the fact that you have no connection or experience of the Middle East personally, so feel a little out-gunned by posters who have?


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## SAYIT (May 14, 2012)

theliq said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...



Woo ... and you really think you're smart? Maybe you meant smart mouthed or a smart 4 year old.


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## JStone (May 14, 2012)

Saigon said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > You are as big a fucking moron as I've ever seen on this board, and that says A LOT given the dogshit that has passed through here over the years (some of whom appear in my sig).
> ...



*Gulf News/Bahrain: Widespread Poverty Throughout Arab World*


> Two in five Arabs live in poverty as a widespread lack of basic elements of human security, such as access to clean water, freedom from hunger, democracy and a robust rule of law, is denying citizens of Arab countries the ability to fulfil their potential, a UN-sponsored report has said.
> 
> "One in five people in the Arab region lives below the internationally recognised poverty threshold of $2 a day as poverty and hunger persist in the Arab region despite its comparative affluence. However, a significantly larger proportion of Arabs in countries studied by the report, however, lives under nationally determined poverty lines and still cannot afford bare necessities," said the Arab Human Development Report 2009: Challenges to Human Security in the Arab Countries.
> 
> ...


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## SAYIT (May 14, 2012)

Saigon said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > You are as big a fucking moron as I've ever seen on this board, and that says A LOT given the dogshit that has passed through here over the years (some of whom appear in my sig).
> ...




An ocean of oil goes a long way in providing an exceptional standard of living and Beirut is no longer the paradise it once was. Neither Turkey nor Malaysia is Arab and the statndard of living for the vast majority of Mideast Arabs is, by their own admission, way below exceptional. I thought you said you know the region.


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## JStone (May 14, 2012)

*UN: Arab World Rife with Illiteracy & Lacks Innovation*


> U.N. report finds one third of Arabs illiterate and only $10 per person spent on scientific research. The level of education, research and innovation in the Arab world is appalling, a new United Nations report has claimed.
> 
> The report, produced as part of a partnership between the United Nations Development Program and the United Arab Emirates-based Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum Foundation, found that despite the efforts of scientists and researchers throughout the region, the Arab world makes up only 1.1% of global scientific publishing and the low level of investment into research has led to relatively low levels of innovation throughout the Arab world.
> 
> ...


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## rhodescholar (May 15, 2012)

theliq said:


> As the Aboriginal population is only  4 % of the AUSTRALIAN population it would be a little hard methinks.



It was their country first, fucking moron **** idiot asshole - now ignored.  This turd sounds like shogun....hmmmm.....


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## rhodescholar (May 15, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Again, you claimed: "they've lived in shithole dumps for the past 70 years with no hope for a better future any time soon."
> 
> Which clearly fails to address the fact that people in Bahrain, Dubai and Kuwait enjoy an exceptional standard of living, and also that in countries like Turkey, Malaysia and Beirut we see people enjoying great lives and having a high standard of living.



I was referring to the pal arabs living in camps all over the mideast, fucking retarded idiot.


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## Saigon (May 15, 2012)

Rhodes - 

Which camps have you been to?

Please be specific in your answer, because when yo say "all over the mideast" I am not sure what you mean.


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## JStone (May 15, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > As the Aboriginal population is only  4 % of the AUSTRALIAN population it would be a little hard methinks.
> ...



Hmmmmmmm


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## Saigon (May 15, 2012)

SAYIT said:


> An ocean of oil goes a long way in providing an exceptional standard of living and Beirut is no longer the paradise it once was. Neither Turkey nor Malaysia is Arab and the statndard of living for the vast majority of Mideast Arabs is, by their own admission, way below exceptional. I thought you said you know the region.



Oil has playeed an enormous part in generating wealth of course - but it has also been well handled in many ME countries. 

Nigeria has earned 32 billion in oil revenues since independence, but has a GDP per capita less than 1/10th of Bahrain, for instance. 

Beirut is still wonderful - when were you last there?

I think both Turkey and Malaysia belong in this debate to - we're lagely discussing Islam, rather than ethnic Arabs.


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## JStone (May 15, 2012)

Saigon said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > An ocean of oil goes a long way in providing an exceptional standard of living and Beirut is no longer the paradise it once was. Neither Turkey nor Malaysia is Arab and the statndard of living for the vast majority of Mideast Arabs is, by their own admission, way below exceptional. I thought you said you know the region.
> ...



Gulf News/Bahrain: Widespread Poverty Throughout Arab World


> Two in five Arabs live in poverty as a widespread lack of basic elements of human security, such as access to clean water, freedom from hunger, democracy and a robust rule of law, is denying citizens of Arab countries the ability to fulfil their potential, a UN-sponsored report has said.
> 
> "One in five people in the Arab region lives below the internationally recognised poverty threshold of $2 a day as poverty and hunger persist in the Arab region despite its comparative affluence. However, a significantly larger proportion of Arabs in countries studied by the report, however, lives under nationally determined poverty lines and still cannot afford bare necessities," said the Arab Human Development Report 2009: Challenges to Human Security in the Arab Countries.
> 
> ...


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## theliq (May 15, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > As the Aboriginal population is only  4 % of the AUSTRALIAN population it would be a little hard methinks.
> ...



I'll over look the EXPLETIVES YOU MORON.....so by your warped anal  ogy the US should be returned to the native Americans,Israel to the Palestinians,Jamacia and West Indies to the Arawak Indians...........................It was their country first......what a complete Idiotic Ct you are...for all to see.

Keep WankingYou may one day get an ERECTION but I doubt it


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## ima (May 15, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > As the Aboriginal population is only  4 % of the AUSTRALIAN population it would be a little hard methinks.
> ...



Actually, when Australia was formed, there were no humans, just plants and animals. So everyone in Oz, none of you belong there, so everyone please go jump in the ocean, NOW!


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## rhodescholar (May 15, 2012)

ima said:


> Actually, when Australia was formed, there were no humans, just plants and animals. So everyone in Oz, none of you belong there, so everyone please go jump in the ocean, NOW!



Nice nonsensical, useless response from the asshole gallery.  Just hilarious how in the minds of the mentally ill jew-haters, jews are not allowed to migrate - but others can and even slaughter the native population - that's manifest destiny, or the natural order.  Just fucking hilarious.


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## ima (May 15, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, when Australia was formed, there were no humans, just plants and animals. So everyone in Oz, none of you belong there, so everyone please go jump in the ocean, NOW!
> ...



Ok, now I know you are actually insane, how do I become a Jew-hater with this post? 

And basically what you're saying is that you're comparing jews to people who conquered and slaughtered the native populations. Is that right?


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## MJB12741 (May 15, 2012)

HUH???  When any land was formed there were no humans.  So what is your point here?




ima said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...


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## Saigon (May 15, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Again, you claimed: "they've lived in shithole dumps for the past 70 years with no hope for a better future any time soon."
> ...



Precisely which camps do you mean?

Please name them, and tell us which ones you have been to personally?

I ask this, because very few people actually have a clue what the camps actually are - but if you have been personally, then you'll know. 

BTW - Please try and stick to facts and posts of substance - your childish abuse just makes you look like a bitter loser.


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## JStone (May 15, 2012)

Saigon said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...



Lebanon: Seize Opportunity to End Discrimination Against Palestinians | Human Rights Watch


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## ima (May 15, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> HUH???  When any land was formed there were no humans.  So what is your point here?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Roadz thinks that the "natives" (abos) own Oz because they were there first. But my point is that the abos are immigrants as well.


----------



## Saigon (May 15, 2012)

Ima - 

And where did aboriginals immigrate from? 

If you are going to take that approach, the only country in the world with a claim to own land would be Kenya.


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## ima (May 15, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Ima -
> 
> And where did aboriginals immigrate from?
> 
> If you are going to take that approach, the only country in the world with a claim to own land would be Kenya.


Exactly. Rendering the whole false argument of "whomever got there first owns the land in perpetuity" completely moot.


----------



## Saigon (May 15, 2012)

Ima - 

then we totally agree. 

I see no point in attempting to discuss land ownership before the time when people abandoned nomadic lifestyles and settled into permanant communities, from which continual haibation can be traced.

We know that the foreafethers of todays Palestinians lived in towns like Jericho 3,000+ years ago, and we know they formed the majority of the population in that time. We also know a small number of Jews lived alongside them. 

To me that is really the beginning and the end of it.


----------



## JStone (May 15, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Ima -
> 
> then we totally agree.
> 
> ...






Eminent Archaeologist and Historian, former Fulbright Scholar Eric Cline...


> The claims that modern Palestinians are descended from the ancient Jebusites are made without any supporting evidence.  Historians and archaeologists have generally concluded that most, if not all, modern Palestinians are probably more closely related to the Arabs of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordan and other countries than they are to the ancient Jebusites, Canaanites or Philistines.
> Oxford University Press: Oxford Handbook of the Bronze Age Aegean: Eric H. Cline


 
Rashid Khalidi, Professor of Modern Arab Studies, Columbia University, Director of Columbia University's Middle East Institute and advisor to various Arab groups...


> There is a relatively recent tradition which argues that Palestinian nationalism has deep historical roots.  As with other national movements, extreme advocates of this view anachronistically read back into the history of Palestine over the past few centuries a nationalist consciousness and identity that are in fact relatively modern.  Among the manifestations of this outlook are a predilection for seeing in peoples such as the Canaanites, Jebusites and Philistines the lineal ancestors of the modern Palestinians.
> Amazon.com: Palestinian Identity (9780231105156): Rashid Khalidi: Books


 
Eminent Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis



> By [Arabs] bypassing the Biblical Israelites and claiming kinship with the Canaanites, it is possible to assert a historical claim antedating the biblical promise and possession put forward by the Jews.  This line of argument isaccompanied by the common practice in Arab countries, in textbook, museums and exhibitions of minimizing the Jewish role in ancient history or, more frequently, presenting it in very negative terms.
> 
> In terms of scholarship as distinct from politics, there is no evidence whatsoever for the assertion that the Canaanites were Arabs.
> Amazon.com: Political Words and Ideas in Islam (9781558764248): Bernard Lewis: Books


 
Eminent Historian Sir Martin Gilbert...


> On August 18 Yasir Arafat, speaking as head of the Palestinian National Authority in Gaza and Jericho, told Arab youngsters at a summer camp, "Those of you who lit the intifada fire must now act as defenders of this young state, whose capital is Jerusalem. It is Bir Salem [the fountain of Salem]. Salem was one of the Canaanite Kings, one of our forefathers. This city is the capital of our children and our children's children. If not for this belief and conviction of the Palestinian nation, this people would have been erased from the face of the earth, as were so many other nations."
> 
> King Salem is a newcomer on the historical scene. No such Canaanite, Jebusite or Philistine king is known to history
> 
> Amazon.com: Martin Gilbert'sThe Routledge Atlas of Jewish History (Routledge Historical Atlases) [Hardcover](2010): M., (Author) Gilbert: Books



"Palestinian" Hamas Minister of the Interior Fathi Hammad, Al-Hekma TV [Egypt]: "Half of the Palestiniains are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis"


> Brothers, there are 1.8 million of us in Gaza. Allah be praised, we all have Arab roots and every Palestinian in Gaza and throughout Palestine can prove his Arab roots--whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere.
> 
> Personally, half my family is Egyptian.  We are all like that.
> 
> ...


----------



## Saigon (May 15, 2012)

peach174 said:


> Hamas wants to wipe Israel off the map. They will not change, as long as Palestinians keep them in power there will never be peace.



True. 

But it is in the interests of both Palestinians and Israelis that Palestinian voters sense they will get a better deal elsewhere. 

How did UNO defeat Sandinista in the classis Nicaraguan election of 1990?

By offering peace - and the benefits of peace, such as an end to conscription. 

If Israel really wanted peace, they could offer something similiar to the Camp David deal to Fatah, with conditions. They way voters in Gaza might consider abandoning Hamas and back the more moderate Fatah. 

In one sense, Israel strengthened Hamas by bombing it to death a couple of years back - it proved that what Hamas says about Israel is true, in one sense.


----------



## JStone (May 15, 2012)

Saigon said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> > Hamas wants to wipe Israel off the map. They will not change, as long as Palestinians keep them in power there will never be peace.
> ...






*Arab American Journalist Joseph Farah: The Myth Of Palestine And Palestinians*


> The truth is that Palestine is no more real than Never-Never Land. The first time the name was used was in 70 A.D. when the Romans committed genocide against the Jews, smashed the Temple and declared the land of Israel would be no more. From then on, the Romans promised, it would be known as Palestine. The name was derived from the Philistines, a Goliathian people conquered by the Jews centuries earlier. It was a way for the Romans to add insult to injury. They also tried to change the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina, but that had even less staying power.
> 
> Palestine has never existed &#8212; before or since &#8212; as an autonomous entity. It was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their homeland.
> 
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 15, 2012)

Saigon said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> > Hamas wants to wipe Israel off the map. They will not change, as long as Palestinians keep them in power there will never be peace.
> ...



I keep hearing the term moderate when talking about Fatah. That was not what the Palestinians were looking for in the elections.

Hamas does for the people and defends the people.

Fatah does not.

When Israel attacks Palestinians in Gaza it is met with bombs and bullets.

In the West Bank Fatah rolls out the red carpet. The PA has a 50,000 security force. Half of its budget goes to security. Yet when Palestinians are attacked there is never a cop in sight.


----------



## JStone (May 15, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > peach174 said:
> ...



Hamas is moderate?  

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oV2j-N4AaBI]Hamas brutality against Fatah on Palestinian TV - PA public - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## MJB12741 (May 15, 2012)

So true Tinmore.  Long live Hamas.  They have already killed more Palestinians in the few years since their election by the Palestinian people than Israel has since 1948.  





P F Tinmore said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > peach174 said:
> ...


----------



## rhodescholar (May 15, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Rhodes - Which camps have you been to?  Please be specific in your answer, because when yo say "all over the mideast" I am not sure what you mean.



This is an example of the weak posters here defending the muslim filth; they try to re-direct the topic away from the arab muslim failures to attacks on the poster... zzzzzzzz.....


----------



## rhodescholar (May 15, 2012)

ima said:


> Roadz thinks that the "natives" (abos) own Oz because they were there first. But my point is that the abos are immigrants as well.



You're too fucking stupid to have a point, otherwise you'd recognize the hypocrisy of attacking jews for ALLEGEDLY taking land from the natives, while excusing others from actually doing it.

But to the low IQ arab defenders here, they cannot even spell hypocrisy, let alone understand it.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 15, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> So true Tinmore.  Long live Hamas.  They have already killed more Palestinians in the few years since their election by the Palestinian people than Israel has since 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Only the Palestinians who are on the US payroll.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 15, 2012)

Why hasn't anyone listed Arafat or Hamas as a Palestinian contribution to peace, mankind & civilization?  Who has ever killed more Palestinian terrorists than Arafat or Hamas?  





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > So true Tinmore.  Long live Hamas.  They have already killed more Palestinians in the few years since their election by the Palestinian people than Israel has since 1948.
> ...


----------



## rhodescholar (May 15, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Only the Palestinians who are on the US payroll.



You mean the iranian one, don't you fucking **** moron?


----------



## SAYIT (May 15, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Ima -
> 
> then we totally agree.
> 
> ...



How convenient. 
Must we use your snapshot to determine that land ownership was established 3000 years ago?
Who died and made you god?
Perhaps we should use mine instead: I see no point in considering any alleged land ownership prior to 2012. 
Israel exists, Princess, and those Israelis aren't going anywhere. I suggest you get used to it.
Israel - 23,000 days of statehood and still winning!
"Palestine" - 0 days of statehood and still whining!


----------



## SAYIT (May 15, 2012)

Saigon said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> > Hamas wants to wipe Israel off the map. They will not change, as long as Palestinians keep them in power there will never be peace.
> ...




The more moderate Fatah? You've been drinking the kool-aid again. What Israel proved to Hamas and those "peaceful" Arabs alike was that they can only poke Israel with those rockets for so long before some lead is cast in the Arab's direction.


----------



## SAYIT (May 15, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > So true Tinmore.  Long live Hamas.  They have already killed more Palestinians in the few years since their election by the Palestinian people than Israel has since 1948.
> ...



That, of course, is any "Palestinian" who believes co-existence with Israel is preferable to your never-ending war against the Joooos, eh Princess?


----------



## Saigon (May 15, 2012)

SAYIT said:


> The more moderate Fatah? You've been drinking the kool-aid again. What Israel proved to Hamas and those "peaceful" Arabs alike was that they can only poke Israel with those rockets for so long before some lead is cast in the Arab's direction.



Sayit - 

Yes, Fatah are more moderate than Hamas. You may also remember that Fatah fught an internecine to war with Hamas recently, one of the key points of different being polci conerning Israel. 

What Israel did with Gaza is to increase membership of Hamas by 20%. Just like when Israel first invaded Southern Lebanon, and increased the suport of Hezbollah by 430% within one year.

btw. Sayit - try and keep in mind that I have lived in Israel, and consider the country my second home. Trying to paint me as an enemy of Israel doesn't suggest to me you quite 'get' the issues here.


----------



## Saigon (May 15, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Rhodes - Which camps have you been to?  Please be specific in your answer, because when yo say "all over the mideast" I am not sure what you mean.
> ...



Still no answer. 

The word 'camps' is a bit confusing, because they aren't actually camps as such. There are no fences, guard towers, gates or walls. They are just villages. 

They aren't pretty, but then these people are largely refugees, and most to be going elsewhere at some point. 

The camps are not "all over the middle east", they are in Lebanon and Syria.


----------



## rhodescholar (May 15, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Still no answer.
> 
> The word 'camps' is a bit confusing, because they aren't actually camps as such. There are no fences, guard towers, gates or walls. They are just villages.
> 
> ...



Wrong again, moron:

Palestine refugee camps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They are not refugees according to the definition accorded to EVERY other group on earth.  Sorry dipshit, but you don't get to be a refugee when your grandparents started a war they lost.


----------



## Saigon (May 15, 2012)

Rhodes - 

Your link to a story entitled:

"Palestine refugee camps"

suggests to me that many people consider them to be refugees. 

Certainly they consider themselves to be, as certainly their hosts consider them to be. 

If you wish to present a case that a person who moved from Shabaa Farms to Beirut because of the bombing is NOT a refugee - then by all means do so.

btw, The children of refugees and asylum seekers can also be considered refugees and asylum seekers. The concept does not expire after one generation.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 16, 2012)

SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



I am not sure how that relates to my post.

Where did you get that info? I believe it is incorrect.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 16, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Still no answer.
> ...





> Sorry dipshit, but you don't get to be a refugee when your grandparents started a war they lost.



Not true. Where did you get that?


----------



## rhodescholar (May 16, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Rhodes - Your link to a story entitled: "Palestine refugee camps"suggests to me that many people consider them to be refugees.



B/c they call themselves "refugees" does not mean that they are.  I can call myself martian, but if the legal definition of the term does not apply - then I am not one.



> Certainly they consider themselves to be, as certainly their hosts consider them to be.



Their "hosts" discriminate against them, and use them as a political tool against Israel.  Still does not make them refugees, just discriminated against.  



> If you wish to present a case that a person who moved from Shabaa Farms to Beirut because of the bombing is NOT a refugee - then by all means do so. btw, The children of refugees and asylum seekers can also be considered refugees and asylum seekers. The concept does not expire after one generation.



Try buying some facts, fuckbrain - and this from the asshole who keeps trying to litmus test about other posters knowledge - too fucking hilarious.

According to the official UN definition of a refugee - the pal arabs are NOT refugees, as following generations CANNOT be considered as such.  Next time asshole you want to question someone else's knowledge, just STFU.


----------



## rhodescholar (May 16, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Not true. Where did you get that?



Children of refugees are not legally considered refugees as well according to the official definition of a refugee of the UN, moron.

It was only after the arab-driven and artificially manufactured pal arab "special" definition through UNWRA did anyone begin considering them as such.

No other group in the world has a special definition created for them to be called "refugees", which is why no one rational accepts them as such.  Either the same rules apply to all, or no one.

Sorry douchebag.


----------



## rhodescholar (May 16, 2012)

Refugee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

* "The major exception is the 4,600,000 Palestinian refugees under the authority of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA), who are the only group to be granted refugee status to the descendants of refugees according to the above definition.[8]"*

QFT.  NEXT.


----------



## JStone (May 16, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Not true. Where did you get that?
> ...



Absolutely correct.  Descendants of refugees are not refugees.  My grandfather immigrated from Poland, but, I'm not a Polish refugee.  If I went to the UN asking for refugee benefits, they'd laugh me out the door.

The UN created a unique definition for so-called palestinian refugees that any arab living in Israel prior to the '48 War became a palestinian refugee.  So, an Egyptian, Saudi, Algerian, Syrian or any other arab who migrated to Israel before the war magically became a palestinian refugee.

It's important to note that palestinian is not an ethnic designation: Under the British Mandate, which reinvented the word palestine, everyone, including Jews, was a palestinian

Most if not all of the original arab refugees of the '48 war are deceased.  There are no more palestinian refugees in point of fact.


----------



## Saigon (May 16, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Rhodes - Your link to a story entitled: "Palestine refugee camps"suggests to me that many people consider them to be refugees.
> ...



By which definition of the term are they not refugees?

I'd be interested to see your definiton - and the source for it.


----------



## Saigon (May 16, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> Refugee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> * "The major exception is the 4,600,000 Palestinian refugees under the authority of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA), who are the only group to be granted refugee status to the descendants of refugees according to the above definition.[8]"*
> 
> QFT.  NEXT.



Ah, ok - I' hadn't seen this when making my previous post....this doesn't seem to be entirely true of asylum seekers, though is it?

And have not many Palestinians leaving the area claimed asylum seeker status?


----------



## JStone (May 16, 2012)

Saigon said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > Refugee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> ...



What's a palestinian since Jews were palestinians under the British Mandate?

You don't even know


----------



## docmauser1 (May 16, 2012)

Saigon said:


> _"Palestine refugee camps" suggests to me that many people consider them to be refugees._


They have the right to be delusional, indeed.


Saigon said:


> _Certainly they consider themselves to be,_


Occupationally, of course.


Saigon said:


> _The children of refugees and asylum seekers can also be considered refugees and asylum seekers. The concept does not expire after one generation._


Because palistanians have their own tailor-made exclusive UNRWA to perpetuate a "perpetual refugee" scam. Non-royal, ie. real refugees on/of all good earth, get by with a discount UNHCR, which denies a refugee status to the descendants of refugees. Besides, the majority of palistanians in Lebanon ran there from Jordan.


----------



## JStone (May 16, 2012)

> Quote: Originally Posted by Saigon
> The children of refugees and asylum seekers can also be considered refugees and asylum seekers. The concept does not expire after one generation.



Incorrect, under standard refugee guidelines, descendants of refugees are not refugees.

I'm not a Polish refugee though my grandfather was.


----------



## rhodescholar (May 16, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Ah, ok - I' hadn't seen this when making my previous post....this doesn't seem to be entirely true of asylum seekers, though is it?  And have not many Palestinians leaving the area claimed asylum seeker status?



As I mentioned, people can "claim" to be anything they want, but it doesn't make it as such. 

Look at the US, where illegal immigrants from mexico and south america come into the country claiming needs status or having babies here, so that they can collect welfare and handouts.

As long as there are clueless or malicious aiders and abettors - and the pal arabs have lots of both, though most are malicious given their hatred of jews and/or political motivations against israel - there will always be (my favorite word) "disenfranchised" groups seeking a handout.

Just ask Al Sharpton's accountant, it's what keeps people like him, Charlie Rangel and Jesse Jackson in business, well-fed, and well-dressed.

When you think about it, it's a great system; it gives jobs to lots of people like the aid workers and hamas in gaza - keeps the terrorist money flowing there - and gives the poor, poor, "disenfranchised" pal arabs under the misguided impression that they are "refugees" and therefore entitled to handouts, aid, and political cover by their arab brethren seeking a tool to point at israel.  It's really an excellent manufactured system, as it perpetuates the issue indefinitely by granting "refugee" status to descendants, and as "refugees", its an opportunity to seek sympathy from clueless college students and ignorant young people in the West, who can then feel they are "helping" the situation by chanting, attending rallies and meetings, and other such nonsense on behalf of the pal arabs.  It's one big fat party for all of them - designed to never actually solve the issue, just keep the wasted money and misguided sympathy flowing forever.


----------



## Saigon (May 16, 2012)

Rhodes - 

I think it is important to note the difference between refugees with asylum seekers. 

The latter is fantastically hard to determine, but refugees not so much so, I'd have thought. 

I wonder if you would be quite so dismissive of the claims of Palestinians rights to refugee status if they were white - it is very difficult for people to remove their own sense of hatred from the situation and be objective.


----------



## Saigon (May 16, 2012)

docmauser1 said:


> Besides, the majority of palistanians in Lebanon ran there from Jordan.



I am not sure if the majority did - you are going back to events which took place in 1970, and many Palestinians in Lebanon were not born in 1970. 

I suspect the single largest grouping of Palestinians in Lebanon are Lebanon-born Palestinians. Given the Lebanese tend not to accept them as being Lebanese, I can understand why they consider themselves Palestinians.


----------



## JStone (May 16, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Rhodes -
> 
> I think it is important to note the difference between refugees with asylum seekers.
> 
> ...



In the aftermath of WW II, 150 million refugees were repatriated including 12 million ethnic Germans.  1 million Jewish refugees expelled from their Arab countries repatriated to Israel.

It's long overdue for the Arab countries who initiated the '48 War to repatriate their own people


----------



## rhodescholar (May 16, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Rhodes - I think it is important to note the difference between refugees with asylum seekers.



Asylum?  From who, their own repressive governments, in Egypt, Syria and Gaza?  Then the whole arab world would be eligible for asylum status, which no one would accept.  The arabs needs to start fixing their own countries, and stop relying upon others for aid - or blaiming the West, Israel or some other boogeymen for their own failings.

Read the UN reports jstone has linked to here - written by and for arabs, they pretty much explain what the failings are in the arab muslim world - and it is not the fault of anyone but themselves.



> I wonder if you would be quite so dismissive of the claims of Palestinians rights to refugee status if they were white - it is very difficult for people to remove their own sense of hatred from the situation and be objective.



All BS aside, this statement is why people are dismissive of YOU.  WTF are you, who knows absolutely nothing about me, my race, ethnicity, background, etc., and claim that <I> am prejudicial against a group of people based upon their skin color?  WTF is that?  And how would you react if you found out that I was not white?

FYI, I am VERY objective, as I know the region well having lived throughout the ME for probably longer than most of these posters have been alive.  You are falling into the trap of trying to attack someone personally when you disagree with their assessment or made a factual error - don't.


----------



## Saigon (May 16, 2012)

Rhodes - 

Syrians may well be claiming asylum from their own govermnent, absolutely. Palestinians in Gaza likewise could be claiming asylum from Hamas, no? 

But SOME Palestinians also have a claim for asylum from Israel, I would think. Certainly I can understand some people their lives and livelihoods have been ruined by the wall, by collective punishment and detention without trial. We know for a fact these things happen.

I agree many Arab states blame Israel and the US for their own failings - but this does not mean that occasionally they are right to blame Israel, in particular. 

As for your second point - given much of your positng seems to amoint to abuse, ridicule and name-calling, I hadn't imagine you'd be terribly sensitive in return. I can only assume this sentence:



> You are falling into the trap of trying to attack someone personally when you disagree with their assessment or made a factual error - don't.



is a Stone-eque piece of self-irony. 

You don't seem terribly objective to me - you seem wildly anti-Palestinian.

btw. I am delighted to hear you have lived in the region - it puts you a few steps up on the like of Stone and Co.!!


----------



## JStone (May 16, 2012)

Saigon said:


> You don't seem terribly objective to me - you seem wildly anti-Palestinian.



What's a palestinian?

Arab American Journalist Joseph Farah: The Myth Of Palestine And Palestinians


> The truth is that Palestine is no more real than Never-Never Land. The first time the name was used was in 70 A.D. when the Romans committed genocide against the Jews, smashed the Temple and declared the land of Israel would be no more. From then on, the Romans promised, it would be known as Palestine. The name was derived from the Philistines, a Goliathian people conquered by the Jews centuries earlier. It was a way for the Romans to add insult to injury. They also tried to change the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina, but that had even less staying power.
> 
> Palestine has never existed  before or since  as an autonomous entity. It was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their homeland.
> 
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (May 16, 2012)

If the Arabs had accepted the 1947 UN resolution, not a single Palestinian would have been a refugee.  Truly what the Arab countries did to their Palestinians is hard to ever forgive.


The Palestine Refugee Problem


----------



## Hossfly (May 16, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Rhodes -
> 
> Syrians may well be claiming asylum from their own govermnent, absolutely. Palestinians in Gaza likewise could be claiming asylum from Hamas, no?
> 
> ...


Ol' Hoss is the anti-Palestinian here. You can dump all your diatribe on me.


----------



## JStone (May 16, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Rhodes -
> ...



Saigon is uneducated and unaware that Jews were called palestinians during the British Mandate.  He's not to be taken seriously.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 16, 2012)

We all know that.  But he sure is entertaining.




JStone said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...


----------



## theliq (May 16, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> If the Arabs had accepted the 1947 UN resolution, not a single Palestinian would have been a refugee.  Truly what the Arab countries did to their Palestinians is hard to ever forgive.
> 
> 
> The Palestine Refugee Problem



Well M they the Palestinians were put between a Rock and a Hard place,but I agree with you in as much that the Palestinians have NOTHING TO THANK ANY ARABIC NEIGHBOUR FOR and in the end it will be the will of the Palis and Israelis to reach a settlement,finally.
steve


----------



## Tweezerman (May 16, 2012)

Palestinians are Arabs from Arab countries.  What is stopping them from returning?


----------



## Saigon (May 16, 2012)

Tweezerman said:


> Palestinians are Arabs from Arab countries.  What is stopping them from returning?



About 3,000 years of permanant inhabitaed in Palestine.

In other words, about 2,000 years more than that which stops half of Central America moving to Spain. 

Why don't all Indonesians move back to Thailand?

Why don't all white South Africans move bck to Holland?

Wy don't all Hunagrians move back to Russia?


----------



## Tweezerman (May 16, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Tweezerman said:
> 
> 
> > Palestinians are Arabs from Arab countries.  What is stopping them from returning?
> ...



What's palestine?  The land was Israel 3000 years ago, named by the Jews.  palestine was a European invention to call Israel much later

I see why people here mock you for your lack of knowledge


----------



## Saigon (May 16, 2012)

Twezeerman - 

Do you believe that Italy and Germany are legitimate states?

Which concept of the three (Italy, Germany, Palestine) if the oldest?

Honestly, dude, this is such an obvious point. If there was no Germany and no Italy 200 years ago, how can you complain about there not being a Palestine as if this was some important information?

The history of the occupation of land is not tied to the existance of nation states!


----------



## Tweezerman (May 16, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Twezeerman -
> 
> Do you believe that Italy and Germany are legitimate states?
> 
> ...



You're deflecting and rather pitifully because you were caught unknowledgeable.

After the Israelites emerged from Canaanite society, they established Israel, not palestine.  Jesus was the King of Israel in the Bible.

Israel appears thousands of times in the Bible.  But, there's no palestine because it was invented much later by the Romans and the British

You really are uneducated.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 16, 2012)

Not only did the surrounding Arab countries leave tens of thousands of Palestinians as refugees & dump millions of others on Israel after the 67 war but now they won't even grant them a right of return back to their homelands.  And to make matters even worse for the Palestinians, Israel makes peace offerings to them, builds a security fence & concedes land to them so they can stay in Israel.




theliq said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > If the Arabs had accepted the 1947 UN resolution, not a single Palestinian would have been a refugee.  Truly what the Arab countries did to their Palestinians is hard to ever forgive.
> ...


----------



## Saigon (May 16, 2012)

Tweezerman - 

Please try and stay on topic. Please address the point raised, and post honestly. 

YOU raise the issue of the legitimacy of a Palestinian entity - let's discuss that, that alone, no?


----------



## Saigon (May 16, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Not only did the surrounding Arab countries leave tens of thousands of Palestinians as refugees & dump millions of others on Israel after the 67 war but now they won't even grant them a right of return back to their homelands.  And to make matters even worse for the Palestinians, Israel makes peace offerings to them, builds a security fence & concedes land to them so they can stay in Israel.
> ]



What on earth are you talking about?

With all due rspect, MJB, this is just gibberish. 

You think Israel is building the security fence "so that they can stay" in Israel?


----------



## Tweezerman (May 16, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Tweezerman -
> 
> Please try and stay on topic. Please address the point raised, and post honestly.
> 
> YOU raise the issue of the legitimacy of a Palestinian entity - let's discuss that, that alone, no?



You seem to have a problem staying on topic because you're so uneducated.

I only see Israel in the Bible, no "palestinian entity"  Jesus was King of Israel, not of any "palestinian entity"

You really need to act smart even though you are not and refer to the land by its correct name, Israel.


----------



## Saigon (May 16, 2012)

Tweezer - 

Do you accept that the concept of 'Palestine' - and again YOU raised this issue here - is older than the concept of "USA"?


----------



## Tweezerman (May 16, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Tweezer -
> 
> Do you accept that the concept of 'Palestine' - and again YOU raised this issue here - is older than the concept of "USA"?



I see Israel thousands of times in the Bible and even the Quran.  Show me palestine


----------



## Saigon (May 17, 2012)

Tweezerman - 

Does the US appear on your biblical maps? Germany? Italy?

I tend to operate a kind of minimum standard for debate. You are below it. 

Get back to me if you wish to discuss this honestly.


----------



## Tweezerman (May 17, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Tweezerman -
> 
> Does the US appear on your biblical maps? Germany? Italy?
> 
> ...



Wow, you're really, really dumb, not merely uneducated. 

Did the US exist in Biblical times? Did the US exist in the Near East?

You get the award for most idiotic post of the year


----------



## Saigon (May 17, 2012)

Tweezerman said:


> Did the US exist in Biblical times? Did the US exist in the Near East?
> r



No, it didn't. 

Is the US a legitimate state?


----------



## theliq (May 17, 2012)

Tweezerman said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Twezeerman -
> ...



Don't be an Idiot...Sia is completely correct.....What universe have you just dropped in from ??????????   theliq


----------



## Tweezerman (May 17, 2012)

theliq said:


> Tweezerman said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...



The idiot is in the mirror when your ugly face appears in it.  Were you in a car crash or born that ugly?


----------



## theliq (May 17, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Tweezerman said:
> 
> 
> > Palestinians are Arabs from Arab countries.  What is stopping them from returning?
> ...



Nearly right Sia but the Hungarians and afterwards a section of these folk moved northwards to create Finland.....they are thought to have come from the steppes of what is now Russia but they now be Hungarian(Magyres)now but wern't then.

I have Basque ancestory and no one knows where they originated...... this tweezer person by the way is a complete Moron......and pointless like stoney to dialogue with..... as for sayit......well what gutter did HE CRAWL OUT OF,I wonder.steve


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 17, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Twezeerman -
> 
> Do you believe that Italy and Germany are legitimate states?
> 
> ...





> The history of the occupation of land is not tied to the existance of nation states!



Interesting point.

No one will dispute that Egypt occupied Gaza and Jordan occupied the West Bank between 1948 and 1967. However, it is said that Israel does not occupy Palestine because it is not a state.

Propagandists hope that nobody notices these little inconsistencies.


----------



## docmauser1 (May 17, 2012)

Saigon said:


> _Why don't all Indonesians move back to Thailand? Why don't all white South Africans move bck to Holland? Wy don't all Hunagrians move back to Russia?_


Indeed, why should palistanian settlers and squatters return to what was not theirs?


----------



## docmauser1 (May 17, 2012)

theliq said:


> _Nearly right Sia ... _


"Sia", or "Shia"?


----------



## theliq (May 17, 2012)

Tweezerman said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Tweezerman said:
> ...


 Gee your funny..NOT....try and get a life,you IDIOT..I'm theliq,I kick ASS because I can and dobend over.....Woosh,thats it,now cry baby cry


----------



## ima (May 17, 2012)

I don't see why what happened 3000 years ago is even relevant to today. If someone owned my land 3000 years ago, does that give his religious descendants the right 3000 years later to come and kick my ass out of there?


No.


----------



## docmauser1 (May 17, 2012)

ima said:


> _I don't see why what happened 3000 years ago is even relevant to today._


Indeed, palistanians should stop babbling about being there for centuries, millenia and eons too.


ima said:


> _If someone owned my land 3000 years ago, does that give his religious descendants the right 3000 years later to come and kick my ass out of there?_


But palistanians didn't own that land 3000 years ago.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 17, 2012)

All of today's history would not be what it is if not for ancient history.  Think about it Ima.  Just think for a change.




ima said:


> I don't see why what happened 3000 years ago is even relevant to today. If someone owned my land 3000 years ago, does that give his religious descendants the right 3000 years later to come and kick my ass out of there?
> 
> 
> No.


----------



## rhodescholar (May 17, 2012)

theliq said:


> Gee your funny..NOT....try and get a life,you IDIOT..I'm theliq,I kick ASS because I can and dobend over.....Woosh,thats it,now cry baby cry



What you are is an immature fucking idiot with no facts and less brains.  You and tin-idiot should 69 with jos-*XXXXX* as the meat in the sandwich - 3 born losers/filth with no futures.


----------



## ima (May 17, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> All of today's history would not be what it is if not for ancient history.  Think about it Ima.  Just think for a change.
> 
> 
> ima said:
> ...


"today's history". 

So in other words, you agree that I have no claim to my own house under the scenario that I presented?


----------



## docmauser1 (May 17, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > All of today's history would not be what it is if not for ancient history.  Think about it Ima.  Just think for a change.
> ...


Especially under eminent domain.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 17, 2012)

Oh Ima.  What am I to do with you?  Do you have a deed to your house?




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > All of today's history would not be what it is if not for ancient history.  Think about it Ima.  Just think for a change.
> ...


----------



## theliq (May 17, 2012)

docmauser1 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > _I don't see why what happened 3000 years ago is even relevant to today._
> ...



Neither did the Jews Doc,neither did the Jews.steve


----------



## theliq (May 17, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Gee your funny..NOT....try and get a life,you IDIOT..I'm theliq,I kick ASS because I can and dobend over.....Woosh,thats it,now cry baby cry
> ...



IF YOU EVER(WHICH I DOUBT) GET A GRASP OF THE ENGLISH..........THEN MAYBE FOLK MY TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY........but like the GEEZER TWEEZER,YOU WHO CALL YOURSELF "RHODESCHOLAR" WHICH IS IN ITSELF IS  A joke,little boy.

I bet you don't even know what the Rhodes in Rhodescholar even means....you DUMB ASS

Weep ON......you have the backbone of a JELLYFISH.......but Weep ON

Anyway your simple arithmetic doesn't add up...It couldn't be a 69er but it could be a 669er or 699er but never a 69er.......what a vulgar fool you are.......DUMB ASS........you can never defeat theliq because you just ain't SMART ENOUGH.......now crawl back into your KENNEL,boy


----------



## ima (May 18, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Oh Ima.  What am I to do with you?  Do you have a deed to your house?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, you guys really will use any lame excuse to kick out families who've lived there for generations. So if some of them did have a deed, what's next? They need to have had a bank account?


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 18, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh Ima.  What am I to do with you?  Do you have a deed to your house?
> ...



Whenever Israel cleansed a village they would rob the Bank.


----------



## Hossfly (May 18, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


You've seen Kelly's Heroes!!!


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 18, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



No, but Israel would rob the banks, send in trucks to cart off the Palestinian's furniture and other valuables. Israel stole everything.


----------



## Hossfly (May 18, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Just like Himmler! This story gets better and better.Talk about the train rides.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 18, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



Naw, the Palestinians had to walk.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 18, 2012)

If the Arab Muslim Palestinians didn't steal Israel's land to begin with, there would be nothing for Israel to steal from them?




P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 18, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> If the Arab Muslim Palestinians didn't steal Israel's land to begin with, there would be nothing for Israel to steal from them?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Muslims, Christians, and Jews lived in Palestine for centuries. When were there any land disputes?


----------



## MJB12741 (May 18, 2012)

When were there ever any land disputes before Muslims in the holy land?





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > If the Arab Muslim Palestinians didn't steal Israel's land to begin with, there would be nothing for Israel to steal from them?
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 18, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> When were there ever any land disputes before Muslims in the holy land?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



?????

I haven't seen any problems before Israel.


----------



## Lipush (May 18, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > When were there ever any land disputes before Muslims in the holy land?
> ...



..."Then you need to get your eyesight checked, Olsen"


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 18, 2012)

Lipush said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



What land disputes were there before WWI?


----------



## MJB12741 (May 18, 2012)

Surely you jest.  Ever since man lived on this earth there have been land disputes.  Even pre Neanderthal.  Only back then it was for survival of one tribe over others.  Food & water was the priorty that drove people to kill each other over land.  Why do you think every early civilization began near a river?  Think man, think.



P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


----------



## Hossfly (May 18, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Surely you jest.  Ever since man lived on this earth there have been land disputes.  Even pre Neanderthal.  Only back then it was for survival of one tribe over others.  Food & water was the priorty that drove people to kill each other over land.  Why do you think every early civilization began near a river?  Think man, think.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Whenever Tinhorn trys to think, he gets a terrible charleyhorse between his ears.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 18, 2012)

Truly I don't understand where he comes up with most of things he posts.





Hossfly said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Surely you jest.  Ever since man lived on this earth there have been land disputes.  Even pre Neanderthal.  Only back then it was for survival of one tribe over others.  Food & water was the priorty that drove people to kill each other over land.  Why do you think every early civilization began near a river?  Think man, think.
> ...


----------



## rhodescholar (May 18, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Truly I don't understand where he comes up with most of things he posts.



Its called trolling, to try and get a reaction out of people.  That's why I put the human feces on ignore years ago, and rarely bother to read the scumbag's drivel.  There's never anything of value emanating from this turd.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 18, 2012)

Well, regardless I have never & probably will never put anyone on ignore.  Quite franlky I find it entertaining what they have to say.  What fun seeing them suffer over the fact that Israel is & Palestine is not.





rhodescholar said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Truly I don't understand where he comes up with most of things he posts.
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 18, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Well, regardless I have never & probably will never put anyone on ignore.  Quite franlky I find it entertaining what they have to say.  What fun seeing them suffer over the fact that Israel is & Palestine is not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have only put one person ignore. That is because I had already seen all his long, off topic, irrelevant posts a thousand times.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 18, 2012)

Problem is who is to be the judge of who's posts are worthless.  If we all put our adversaries on ignore, this board would cease to exist.  Welcome everyone.  We are like an externded family, albeirt a bit dysfunctional.




P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, regardless I have never & probably will never put anyone on ignore.  Quite franlky I find it entertaining what they have to say.  What fun seeing them suffer over the fact that Israel is & Palestine is not.
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 18, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Problem is who is to be the judge of who's posts are worthless.  If we all put our adversaries on ignore, this board would cease to exist.  Welcome everyone.  We are like an externded family, albeirt a bit dysfunctional.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't back away from any debate but there can be no response to off topic blabber.


----------



## docmauser1 (May 19, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> _I don't back away from any debate but there can be no response to off topic blabber._


Funny lying, of course!


----------



## ima (May 19, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, regardless I have never & probably will never put anyone on ignore.  Quite franlky I find it entertaining what they have to say.  What fun seeing them suffer over the fact that Israel is & Palestine is not.
> ...



I have JewStone (waste of space), eots (I don't watch videos) and docmauser (he thinks he's funny but he's just a waste of time too) on ignore. Wish i didn't have to, but that's life. And it's good.


----------



## docmauser1 (May 19, 2012)

ima said:


> _I have JewStone (waste of space), eots (I don't watch videos) and docmauser (he thinks he's funny but he's just a waste of time too) on ignore. Wish i didn't have to, but that's life. And it's good. _


That last one's a delusion, of course.


----------



## ima (May 19, 2012)

"This message is hidden because docmauser1 is on your ignore list."

I bet it's something irrelevant, let me have a look. Hey! I was right!


----------



## MJB12741 (May 19, 2012)

Thats funny.  Hey Ima, did you hear the one about "Israel is stealing 'Palestinian' land"?





ima said:


> "This message is hidden because docmauser1 is on your ignore list."
> 
> I bet it's something irrelevant, let me have a look. Hey! I was right!


----------



## ima (May 20, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Thats funny.  Hey Ima, did you hear the one about "Israel is stealing 'Palestinian' land"?
> 
> 
> ima said:
> ...



As loinboy mentioned in another thread, why don't any of you severely pro-Israel people say something like yes, not everything Israel has done was cool. 
I don't know what your question is trying to say, but yes zionists took a lot of arab land by force, and imho, it's normal that the people who lost land are pissed. What the fuck else do you expect?


----------



## rhodescholar (May 20, 2012)

ima said:


> As loinboy mentioned in another thread, why don't any of you severely pro-Israel people say something like yes, not everything Israel has done was cool.



You let us know asshole when the jew-haters here will say the same about the arab muslims.



> I don't know what your question is trying to say, but yes zionists took a lot of arab land by force, and imho, it's normal that the people who lost land are pissed. What the fuck else do you expect?



In a war the arab muslims started.  Scumbag, how come everyone else has to use diplomacy - but arab muslims get to use terrorism and violence, and when they lose those wars they start, still get to keep the spoils?

Had the arab muslims not opted for war in 1948 they would not have lost so much land as the jews were content to accept the partition, which only granted them a tiny sliver of what they ended up with after the 1949 armistice.  

But as usual, the intolerant, warlike, violent arab muslims had to have EVERYTHING.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 20, 2012)

Well, when did Israel's ancient land become this "Palestinian land" that Israel is now stealing?





ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Thats funny.  Hey Ima, did you hear the one about "Israel is stealing 'Palestinian' land"?
> ...


----------



## Hossfly (May 20, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > As loinboy mentioned in another thread, why don't any of you severely pro-Israel people say something like yes, not everything Israel has done was cool.
> ...


Post of the week!
Your first sentence sums up the entire situation: Diplomacy vs terror.
Hardly anybody else sees that.


----------



## rhodescholar (May 20, 2012)

ima said:


> I have JewStone (waste of space), eots (I don't watch videos) and docmauser (he thinks he's funny but he's just a waste of time too) on ignore. Wish i didn't have to, but that's life. And it's good.



The planets must all be in alignment, b/c I actually agree with this poster on one of his choices, just shocking.


----------



## rhodescholar (May 20, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> Post of the week! Your first sentence sums up the entire situation: Diplomacy vs terror. Hardly anybody else sees that.



Take note of how the rats scatter when this point is raised.

Also note how much pressure the arab muslim filth defenders place on the US and israel to go to international bodies to resolve all issues - where they enjoy a superior numerical advantage - and always use "multilateralism" and diplomacy.

But the scumbag fucking filth never seems to ask why didn't the arab try to resolve the conflict in '48 through the UN, or '67, etc.  Arabs can use violence to solve their conflicts - but everyone else is held to a higher standard.

What's really interesting is how these turds don't recognize the reverse racism they are perpetuating against the arabs, where they are pushing the idea that arabs cannot and should not be held to the same standards.  But it is rare to find a pro-arab muslim defender with enough brains to realize this, and none of the ones here even approach that level of intellectual ability, let alone integrity.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 20, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > As loinboy mentioned in another thread, why don't any of you severely pro-Israel people say something like yes, not everything Israel has done was cool.
> ...





> You let us know asshole when the jew-haters here will say the same about the arab muslims.



It is good to know that I am not in that category.
I regularly criticize Fatah, Abbas, Fayyad, etc.


----------



## ima (May 20, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



I also don't think that everything the arabs do is cool. I also find it bizarre that the rabid pro-Israel side here love to call people names, as though it adds intelligence or weight to their argument.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 20, 2012)

HUH???  What names have I ever called you?






ima said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rhodescholar said:
> ...


----------



## rhodescholar (May 20, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> It is good to know that I am not in that category.
> I regularly criticize Fatah, Abbas, Fayyad, etc.



The only reason scumbag filth like you "criticizes" fatah is because you are in allegience with hamas.  If there was a more extreme version than hamas, you'd defend them, and criticize hamas also.  You're the scum of the earth.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 20, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > It is good to know that I am not in that category.
> ...



Not so. I criticize Fatah because they are the ones violating domestic and international law.

You people criticize Hamas enough. I need not jump on that bandwagon.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby (May 20, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Thats funny.  Hey Ima, did you hear the one about "Israel is stealing 'Palestinian' land"?
> ...




If you're using the term Zionists then you're an idiot. I've talked to plenty of Jews and I've yet to come across one that calls himself a Zionist; especially as it relatest to the Mideast conflict.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 20, 2012)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



Israel was created by the World Zionist Organization. It is their own name.


----------



## Hossfly (May 20, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


You're confusing me Tinny. I thought Israel's name was Jacob.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 21, 2012)

I detest the Zionists for their treatment of the Palestinians.  Peace offerings, as security fence & land concessions to keep Palestinians captives in Israel.  Not once has Israel's leaders even tried to free them by finding an incentive to offer the Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Shame on those Zionists.




TheGreatGatsby said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (May 21, 2012)

Oh now I get it.  There was no Israel until 1948 when it "was created by the World Zionist Organization."  So that's when the people became the Israelites.  Amazing what we can learn here on this board.




P F Tinmore said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 21, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Oh now I get it.  There was no Israel until 1948 when it "was created by the World Zionist Organization."  So that's when the people became the Israelites.  Amazing what we can learn here on this board.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The World Zionist Organization


----------



## theliq (May 21, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Post of the week! Your first sentence sums up the entire situation: Diplomacy vs terror. Hardly anybody else sees that.
> ...



You and Hoss are starting to Dream again...Israeli DIPLOMACY !!!!!!!! now that's a joke...No they like the US are a VIOLENT Nation........WANKER<YOU NUT


----------



## rhodescholar (May 21, 2012)

theliq said:


> You and Hoss are starting to Dream again...Israeli DIPLOMACY !!!!!!!! now that's a joke...No they like the US are a VIOLENT Nation........WANKER<YOU NUT



See my sig, chimp?  Clearly a turd as stupid as you cannot read, so not surprised.


----------



## rhodescholar (May 21, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel was created by the World Zionist Organization. It is their own name.



So now the WZO has the authority to create new countries.  You are a fucking retarded idiot.


----------



## theliq (May 21, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Oh now I get it.  There was no Israel until 1948 when it "was created by the World Zionist Organization."  So that's when the people became the Israelites.  Amazing what we can learn here on this board.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well circa 1870 the Jews made up about 5% of the POPULATION OF PALESTINE....FACT


I just SOAR HIGHER AND HIGHER,dealing with FOOLS...even the present Israeli Government and citizen do recognise Palestine but the MORONIC CRETINS ON HERE SAY THEY NEVER EXISTED......We have a problem here,I personally think that these PRO-JEWISH ZIONIST COLLABORATORS are NOT EVEN JEWISH BUT BIBLE BASHING CHRISTIANS WHO ARE ZIONIST WANNABEES......WHAT A SAD FUCKING LOT THEY ARE..... they need help but I ain't gonna help such lost causes........reading their posts is like looking into the minds of MADMEN.....which to normal people like my assocciates and friends on here....really makes us feel TOTAL PITY FOR THEM


----------



## theliq (May 21, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



AND COLLABORATING IMAGE, Tinnie


----------



## rhodescholar (May 21, 2012)

theliq said:


> Well circa 1870 the Jews made up about 5% of the POPULATION OF PALESTINE....FACT



Mentally ill chimp, please describe for us how much land was sold by arab landlords to jewish farmers.

Then once you've posted that, we can discuss with tin-douche - who claims that it is the people, not governments, that own land - since the jews legally purchased large amounts of current israel and the WB, still have no legal right to the land.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 21, 2012)

What a BRILLIANT, highly educated, unbiased knockout reply from our board drongo.  How do you do it mate?  Read this folks.  Heh Heh.





theliq said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh now I get it.  There was no Israel until 1948 when it "was created by the World Zionist Organization."  So that's when the people became the Israelites.  Amazing what we can learn here on this board.
> ...


----------



## Hossfly (May 21, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> What a BRILLIANT, highly educated, unbiased knockout reply from our board drongo.  How do you do it mate?  Read this folks.  Heh Heh.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You have to admit theliq is a great source of inspiration for us infidels.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 21, 2012)

LOL.  That guy sure is flying high.  Must be a good year for those Arabian poppies he smokes.





Hossfly said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > What a BRILLIANT, highly educated, unbiased knockout reply from our board drongo.  How do you do it mate?  Read this folks.  Heh Heh.
> ...


----------



## Saigon (May 21, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Well circa 1870 the Jews made up about 5% of the POPULATION OF PALESTINE....FACT
> ...



Theliq's point is entirely factually correct - a poin I am surprised you do not acknowledge. 

Jewish settlement into Israel only began en masse with the first Aliyah in 1899-1901. Prior to that the Jewish population in Israel was miniscule. 

I am always amazed how both sides of this debate here on this board refuse to acknlowledge cast iron facts, and instead stand around thumping their chests and repeating myths.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 22, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Well circa 1870 the Jews made up about 5% of the POPULATION OF PALESTINE....FACT
> ...



This is so confusing to you isn't it?


----------



## rhodescholar (May 22, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Theliq's point is entirely factually correct - a poin I am surprised you do not acknowledge.



No need to acknowledge complete BS.  5% of what, the middle east?There has been a large and significant jewish population in jerusalem for a thousand years, unlike the nomadic arabs who despite passing through the area, never settled and formed a nation until jews began immigrating.  



> I am always amazed how both sides of this debate here on this board refuse to acknlowledge cast iron facts, and instead stand around thumping their chests and repeating myths.



Let me know when the pro-arab dogshit admits:

1-large numbers of arabs immigrated from egypt, syria and jordan to work on jewish-owned farms

2-if anything, Israel - as created by the UN is more legitimate than syria, lebanon or jordan - which were artificially created by the UK/France

3-the arabs would have massacred all of the jews and drove them out of the area completely had they won in '48 or '67

4- during the 19-year period from '48 - '67 when the arabs were under jordanian and egyptian rule in the WB/Gaza, they made zero effort for form a nation

And most importantly, 5- that arab muslims will not tolerate the rights or sovereignty of other groups in the middle east, and claim that all land there is dar al-Islam, meaning it belongs to muslims only

THEN, and only THEN, would I be willing to consider listening to the pro-arab muslim BS lies.


----------



## rhodescholar (May 22, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> This is so confusing to you isn't it?



The fucktard's usual deflection, it must suck to be a complete mentally ill piece of shit failure in life, isn't it sweetie?


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 22, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Theliq's point is entirely factually correct - a poin I am surprised you do not acknowledge.
> ...



Talk about BS.

The UN did not create Israel.

Between '48 and '67 there were many attacks by the Palestinians trying to regain their land.


----------



## Saigon (May 22, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Theliq's point is entirely factually correct - a poin I am surprised you do not acknowledge.
> ...



5% of the area which now constitutes the state of Israel, the West Bank, Golan Heights and Gaza. 

Obviously. 

There has ben a tiny Jewish population in the Levant for far, far longer than a thousand years, but until 1899, it never consituted more than a small percentage of the total population.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 22, 2012)

I have to admit, this is the part I don't understand.  WHEN did Israel's ancient land become this "Palestinian land" they claim Israel has stolen or is stealing?  I mean seriously, which came first Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?





P F Tinmore said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...


----------



## Hossfly (May 22, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> I have to admit, this is the part I don't understand.  WHEN did Israel's ancient land become this "Palestinian land" they claim Israel has stolen or is stealing?  I mean seriously, which came first Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You have to give Tinmore credit for being a master debater.


----------



## rhodescholar (May 22, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> The UN did not create Israel.



They didn't?  You mean the partition plan came from Belgium?  Wow, I never knew that... 



> Between '48 and '67 there were many attacks by the Palestinians trying to regain their land.



But you claimed earlier that the arabs never attacked israel, so once again, you got caught lying.

Still claiming there are no anti-tank rockets in Gaza, aren't you chimp?

Ever get tired of getting caught as a liar?


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 22, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > The UN did not create Israel.
> ...



Still no reports of Israel losing any tanks in Gaza, chump.


----------



## rhodescholar (May 22, 2012)

Saigon said:


> 5% of the area which now constitutes the state of Israel, the West Bank, Golan Heights and Gaza. Obviously. There has ben a tiny Jewish population in the Levant for far, far longer than a thousand years, but until 1899, it never consituted more than a small percentage of the total population.



MidEast Web - Population of Palestine

"The major conclusion is "The nature of the data do not permit precise conclusions about the Arab population of Palestine in Ottoman and British times"  Anyone who pretends otherwise is deliberately misleading you."


----------



## rhodescholar (May 22, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Still no reports of Israel losing any tanks in Gaza, chump.



Compunding the lie further, are we moron?

You claimed "there were no anti-tank rockets in gaza."

That same day, the arab muslims fired an anti-tank rocket at an israeli school bus.

Own up to the lie, moron.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 22, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Still no reports of Israel losing any tanks in Gaza, chump.
> ...



Gaza has anti-tank rockets and shoots a school bus but *never shoots a tank.*

You are so easily duped, dupe.


----------



## Hossfly (May 22, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


What a back assward philosophy: shoot kids schoolbus with AT rounds; throw rocks at tanks and armored vehicles. What a way to fight a war!


----------



## Lipush (May 22, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rhodescholar said:
> ...



It's all in the book "MidEast for Dummies" which is right on the right shelf, next to "I'm a terrorist, ask me how".


----------



## MJB12741 (May 22, 2012)

Honestly, why Israel even allows the Palestinians to remain in Israel is a mystery to me.






Lipush said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 22, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rhodescholar said:
> ...



You people will believe anything.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 22, 2012)

You mean there is no tooth fairy?




P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


----------



## rhodescholar (May 22, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Gaza has anti-tank rockets and shoots a school bus but never shoots a tank.  You are so easily duped, dupe.



Here's what the animal asshole actually claimed:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/5306175-post2372.html

"Sure, I don't believe that Gaza has anti-tank missiles."

=============================================

If you are as big a lying fucking turd off the web as you are on it, I can understand why a loser weak fool like you would actually defend the lowest garbage like the pal arabs - you identify with them.


----------



## rhodescholar (May 22, 2012)

As for the rest of the lying scumbag's statement:

Gaza anti-tank missile penetrated IDF tank, Ashkenazi reveals - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

""On December 6, a Kornet rocket was fired for the first time and hit an IDF tank and penetrated its outer shell," Ashkenazi told the Knesset's Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, saying that the Kornet missile penetrated the tank exterior shell but failed to detonate inside it."

===========================

The lowest form of shit on earth can be found defending arab muslims on this board, and tin-retard is one of the weakest.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 22, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> As for the rest of the lying scumbag's statement:
> 
> Gaza anti-tank missile penetrated IDF tank, Ashkenazi reveals - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
> 
> ...



Dec.21, 2010

Only one (maybe) a year and a half ago and it did not explode.

What else you got?


----------



## Saigon (May 22, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > 5% of the area which now constitutes the state of Israel, the West Bank, Golan Heights and Gaza. Obviously. There has ben a tiny Jewish population in the Levant for far, far longer than a thousand years, but until 1899, it never consituted more than a small percentage of the total population.
> ...



If you do not want to be informed, no one can force you, Rhodes. You can be wrong on this for the next 20 years if you prefer. 

If you would like to understand this, the facts are easily available - 

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/The-Population-Palestine-Statistics-Institute/dp/0231071108]Amazon.com: The Population of Palestine: Population History and Statistics of the Late Ottoman Period and the Mandate (Institute for Palestine Studies Series) (9780231071109): Justin McCarthy: Books[/ame]

btw - Blogs are not reliable sources.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 23, 2012)

Lets talk about Israel's "slow but steady" genocide of the Palestinians.  How about we consider documented facts for a change.  As you can see in 1948there were approximately 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel.  And today there are only just under 6 million of them left.  

Population Statistics - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - ProCon.org


----------



## Hossfly (May 23, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Lets talk about Israel's "slow but steady" genocide of the Palestinians.  How about we consider documented facts for a change.  As you can see in 1948there were approximately 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel.  And today there are only just under 6 million of them left.
> 
> Population Statistics - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - ProCon.org


If this genocide of Palestinians by Israel doesn't cease immediatly, there soon will be only about 10 million poor souls left. Practically extinct. Damn shame.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 23, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Lets talk about Israel's "slow but steady" genocide of the Palestinians.  How about we consider documented facts for a change.  As you can see in 1948there were approximately 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel.  And today there are only just under 6 million of them left.
> 
> Population Statistics - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - ProCon.org


----------



## rhodescholar (May 23, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Only one (maybe) a year and a half ago and it did not explode.What else you got?



Hilarious...first the idiot asshole claims there are no anti-tank rockets - and gets caught as a lying piece of shit.

Then the idiot asshole claims that while the arabs in gaza have them, they are not firing them - and gets caught as a lying piece of shit.

Third the idiot asshole claims that there are no anti-tank rockets being fired at tanks - and gets caught as a lying piece of shit.

Does this moron actually believe it is earning respect here, by continually getting its ass kicked, and trying to weasel around its de-bunked lies?  

This is like listening to hamas/hez terrorist spokesmen, who always claim "victory" even after losing 10x the number of fighters as their enemy, just hilarious.  

Or actually closer to Baghdad Bob's exhortations: "there are no american troops in Iraq, because if there were - we would be destroying them!"

Perhaps we should just call tin-fuckbrain "Baghdad Bob", its much closer to the true nature of this sack of shit than any other descriptive one can conjure.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 23, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Only one (maybe) a year and a half ago and it did not explode.What else you got?
> ...



Nice rant.


----------



## rhodescholar (May 23, 2012)

Saigon said:


> If you do not want to be informed, no one can force you, Rhodes. You can be wrong on this for the next 20 years if you prefer. If you would like to understand this, the facts are easily available



#1 - I've personally seen the turkish census' firsthand

#2 - from my link, which you were obviously too lazy to read through:

"According to Justin McCarthy, in 1860, there were 411,000 Arabs in Palestine,  in 1890 there were 553,000, in 1914 there were 738,000, but in 1918 there were only 689,000. As there was no census in several of those years,  it is not clear how he draws these conclusions McCarthy tells us that these numbers have been adjusted for undercounting of women and children, accounting for the differences between McCarthy's figures and census data. The drop during the war may have been caused by famine and disease as McCarthy claims, but he doesn't note that in 1922, the British census listed only 660,641 Arab Palestinians (Christians and Arabs, see table below) nor does he explain the drop from 1918. Perhaps the earlier figures include areas of Palestine not included in the mandate or other overestimates."



> btw - Blogs are not reliable sources.



And biased books are?


----------



## MJB12741 (May 23, 2012)

Right on.  Lets face it, this Israeli genocide of the Palestinians is not an issue we should just ignore.  I feel it my moral obligation to let the world see the facts.





Hossfly said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Lets talk about Israel's "slow but steady" genocide of the Palestinians.  How about we consider documented facts for a change.  As you can see in 1948there were approximately 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel.  And today there are only just under 6 million of them left.
> ...


----------



## theliq (May 23, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Right on.  Lets face it, this Israeli genocide of the Palestinians is not an issue we should just ignore.  I feel it my moral obligation to let the world see the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very Interesting graphs and predictions M,moreover nice to see you at least acknowledge that Palestinians exist within Israel and outside......what is interesting is the forecast of Palestinian population growth within Israel in the coming years.

steve


----------



## theliq (May 23, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Only one (maybe) a year and a half ago and it did not explode.What else you got?
> ...



Your foulmouthing,makes your arguements null and void.......you need to curb your swearing. the


----------



## MJB12741 (May 23, 2012)

Oh thank you theliq.  Why of course there are Palestinians both inside & ouside of Israel.  And growing in numbers by leaps & bounds.  Guess Israel's gonna have to step up that "slow but steady" genocide the Palestinians & their supporters tell us about.  




theliq said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Right on.  Lets face it, this Israeli genocide of the Palestinians is not an issue we should just ignore.  I feel it my moral obligation to let the world see the facts.
> ...


----------



## theliq (May 23, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Oh thank you theliq.  Why of course there are Palestinians both inside & ouside of Israel.  And growing in numbers by leaps & bounds.  Guess Israel's gonna have to step up that "slow but steady" genocide the Palestinians & their supporters tell us about.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well in the past yes but now it's nearing the end game for reconcilliation.......it's just stupid tit for tat.....killings.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 23, 2012)

Right on.  Amazing how we are in agreement lately.  It's a game of "Tit for tat."  And Israel is to blame for allowing that when they have the capability to put it to an end.  Shame on Israel for their Zionist agenda.





theliq said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh thank you theliq.  Why of course there are Palestinians both inside & ouside of Israel.  And growing in numbers by leaps & bounds.  Guess Israel's gonna have to step up that "slow but steady" genocide the Palestinians & their supporters tell us about.
> ...


----------



## Saigon (May 23, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > If you do not want to be informed, no one can force you, Rhodes. You can be wrong on this for the next 20 years if you prefer. If you would like to understand this, the facts are easily available
> ...



Oh dear....you aren't trying very hard, are you?

I tell you what  you come up with a decent explanation as to why we should ignore the fact that Palestinians made up around 90% of the population of the area for 2,000 years years, and I'll reply to it. 

Forget blogs, please try and stick to authoritive sources.


----------



## theliq (May 24, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Right on.  Amazing how we are in agreement lately.  It's a game of "Tit for tat."  And Israel is to blame for allowing that when they have the capability to put it to an end.  Shame on Israel for their Zionist agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's a little more complicated than that M


----------



## MJB12741 (May 24, 2012)

Can you tell me why Israel continues to play this "tit for tat" Palestinian game instead of communicating with the Palestinians like king Hussein did to put an end to it?  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!





theliq said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Right on.  Amazing how we are in agreement lately.  It's a game of "Tit for tat."  And Israel is to blame for allowing that when they have the capability to put it to an end.  Shame on Israel for their Zionist agenda.
> ...


----------



## rhodescholar (May 24, 2012)

Saigon said:


> I tell you what  you come up with a decent explanation as to why we should ignore the fact that Palestinians made up around 90% of the population of the area for 2,000 years years, and I'll reply to it.



If you are so clueless and ignorant as to believe that the grandparents and descendents of the vast majority of pal arabs living in the west bank, gaza, or in greenline israel for that matter actually were not from egypt, syria or jordan, there really is nothing to discuss with you.


----------



## Saigon (May 24, 2012)

Rhodes - 

No, I'm not clueless or ignorant about this topic - I've actually published extensively on it, and in major American publications.

The question remains - given Palestinians living in Palestine today can trace their history back generation-through-generation through 3,000 years of permanant habitation in cities like Akko, Jericho and Jerusalem, why do you refuse to consider their claims to the land?

This has been proven by genetic testing, and is a plain, simple historical fact.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 24, 2012)

Quite true.  Those were the indigenous Jewish Palestinians whom the Muslim Palestinians stole their land.





Saigon said:


> Rhodes -
> 
> No, I'm not clueless or ignorant about this topic - I've actually published extensively on it, and in major American publications.
> 
> ...


----------



## rhodescholar (May 24, 2012)

Saigon said:


> The question remains - given Palestinians living in Palestine today can trace their history back generation-through-generation through 3,000 years of permanant habitation in cities like Akko, Jericho and Jerusalem, why do you refuse to consider their claims to the land? This has been proven by genetic testing, and is a plain, simple historical fact.



Except its BS, and no one buys it.  You can claim whatever you want, there is no fact-based evidence for such nonsense, and the pal arabs themselves admit that they immigrated in large numbers in the late 19th and 20th century into the levant.  

As for 3,000 years ago, the jews can claim the land was theirs 5,000 years ago, so if you want to go that route, you're outgunned there as well.


----------



## Saigon (May 24, 2012)

Rhodes - 

No, it's a fact, and not even particularly disputed. 

I notice a lot of extremists seem to cling to the idea that all populations are frozen, that time stuck in Year 0 AD and since then no one should have entered or left the Levant. 

That really is childish, and staggeringly ignorant. 

No race is frozen in time; peoples move, migrate and merge with others over time quite naturally. Te further we go back in history, the more we seen entire peoples moving and merging - that does not mean they do not exist, and that does not mean we can not identify distinct peoples living on distinct areas of land. 

Linguistically, Finns are related to Hungarians. 

So would you say we are one people?

Would you say Hungarians don't exist?

Of course not. 

People who work with history understand it is a fluid concept. 

Of course some Palestinians have had contact with Egypt and Saudi Arabia, and of course many have family there. So what? Is that wrong? 

Do you not think a lot of Jews have blood from Spain or Poland or Russia or Yemen? Why do you think Yemeni Jews are darker than Polish Jews?

It just doesn't matter. 

Jews are Jews and Palestinians are Palestinians, and both have genetic code in the Levant that an be traced back 3,000 years. 

If you don't get that - that's fine. Be wrong.


----------



## rhodescholar (May 24, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Rhodes -
> 
> No, it's a fact, and not even particularly disputed.
> 
> ...



Let's see now, you claim that the same exact people can claim their ancestry back 3,000 - to what, exactly?  And what proves that those are EXACTLY the same people living in jerusalem or the WB for 3,000 consecutive years?  

You claimed in this post that populations are fluid - after claiming earlier that these same people stayed exactly in the same land for 3,000 years. Make up your mind which line you want to go with...


----------



## Saigon (May 24, 2012)

Rhodes - 

This isn't difficult to understand - unless you genuinely do not WANT to understand. 

Genetic tests have confirmed that the people who live in Palestine are extremely closely related to the people who lived in the Levant 3,000 years ago. 

We also know that people have moved into the Levant from Saudi Arabia and Egypt since time began. 

These patterns are true of most countries around the world - from Poland to Taiwan, from Paraguay to Rwanda. 

Why anyone would single out Palestine for special attention can only be race politics.


----------



## ima (May 24, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Rhodes -
> 
> No, I'm not clueless or ignorant about this topic - I've actually published extensively on it, and in major American publications.
> 
> ...



it doesn't even matter who was there 3000 years ago, land was taken from people in the creation of Israel, that's pretty simple. It doesn't matter whether it was an Arab, a Jew or a Mongolian who lived there 3000 years ago.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 24, 2012)

Eh, Ima.  With all due respect to your very fine brain, land was taken from people in the creation of any country.  Case in point:  All Muslim countries are stolen lands from the indigenous populations.





ima said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Rhodes -
> ...


----------



## ima (May 24, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Eh, Ima.  With all due respect to your very fine brain, land was taken from people in the creation of any country.  Case in point:  All Muslim countries are stolen lands from the indigenous populations.



So cool of you to finally admit that Israel was made with stolen land.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 24, 2012)

Hey Ima, did you know that Columbus discovered America?  Yes, & if you don't believe it just ask any native American Indian who's family was here when Columbus arrived.  Jeesh!  Do you get it yet???





ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Eh, Ima.  With all due respect to your very fine brain, land was taken from people in the creation of any country.  Case in point:  All Muslim countries are stolen lands from the indigenous populations.
> ...


----------



## Saigon (May 24, 2012)

MJB - 

Have you ever - and I mean ever - posted anything of any substance at all?

Can we see a link?

90% of your posts seem to be flailing blindly in the dark, and the other 10% rhetorical questions you don't want answers to and clearly don't understand yourself.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 24, 2012)

Nah, I guess not.  Most of my posts have only received over 500 replies.  Whenever you don't understand my comments please advise & I will try to dumb it down for you.  Thanks.





Saigon said:


> MJB -
> 
> Have you ever - and I mean ever - posted anything of any substance at all?
> 
> ...


----------



## Saigon (May 24, 2012)

MJB - 

Your posts are dumbed down. 

I just think maybe you could try a little harder to actually discuss the topic sensibly, rather than just posting snide remarks and comments about how smart you are. 

In all honesty - I don't think I've ever seen you post a fact.


----------



## theliq (May 25, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > The question remains - given Palestinians living in Palestine today can trace their history back generation-through-generation through 3,000 years of permanant habitation in cities like Akko, Jericho and Jerusalem, why do you refuse to consider their claims to the land? This has been proven by genetic testing, and is a plain, simple historical fact.
> ...



You are so FULL OF SHIT


----------



## theliq (May 25, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Hey Ima, did you know that Columbus discovered America?  Yes, & if you don't believe it just ask any native American Indian who's family was here when Columbus arrived.  Jeesh!  Do you get it yet???
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well that is much in dispute.......re Columbus.......I think the Vikings and the Pacific peoples arrived earlier....but the Native Americans discovered America.....why would you assume WRONGLY that Europeans discovered America.

You do need educating really....as for your incredible statement regarding Muslims !!!!!!!!! what you FORGOT TO MENTION THAT JEWS stole lands from the Caananites,Moabites etc,.

Not good enough M,not good enough at all.

Theliq educating the pro-Israel lobby.......of cause he is,as he flys higher and higher


----------



## Saigon (May 25, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Eh, Ima.  With all due respect to your very fine brain, land was taken from people in the creation of any country.  Case in point:  All Muslim countries are stolen lands from the indigenous populations.



This really is very, very funny. 

Would you mind telling us who stole land when Ethiopia was settled? 

How about Thailand?

How about Italy?

Surely in literally dozens of cases the indigenous people of the land ARE the creators of the country?


----------



## theliq (May 25, 2012)

Saigon said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Eh, Ima.  With all due respect to your very fine brain, land was taken from people in the creation of any country.  Case in point:  All Muslim countries are stolen lands from the indigenous populations.
> ...



Poor old M,Sia, he seems not to realize that Islam is a religion and local populations converted to Islamism.

By his way of thinking,all Christian countries were stolen,all Buddist countries were stolen ad-nausium,it's complete shit M says really,and regrettably makes no sense.

steve


----------



## ima (May 25, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Hey Ima, did you know that Columbus discovered America?  Yes, & if you don't believe it just ask any native American Indian who's family was here when Columbus arrived.  Jeesh!  Do you get it yet???
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This thread isn't about America, it's about the ME. If everyone jumps off a cliff, you gonna jump too? If everyone is convicted of rape, you gonna start raping too? ...


----------



## Hossfly (May 25, 2012)

theliq said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


I'm doing some research for a paper on the mid-East and need some background information about various religions. Only one question for now: How did the religion of Islam spread to countries such as Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran and a host of others?


----------



## Saigon (May 25, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> I'm doing some research for a paper on the mid-East



That's the least likeliest claim made on this board since.....(insert unlikely claim)

(If it were true, you'd probably know that Pakistan isn't a Middle Eastern country.)


----------



## Hossfly (May 25, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > I'm doing some research for a paper on the mid-East
> ...


Sorry. I didn't know that. Does that mean I don't get a green dot today?


----------



## MJB12741 (May 25, 2012)

LOL.  The religion of Islam spread by the loving & peaceful words of the followers of Mohammed.  They talked about how they were adamantly against religions conquering indigenous peoples lands & religions that spread by force where people were givin a choice of convert, leave or be killed.  






Hossfly said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...


----------



## Saigon (May 25, 2012)

> land was taken from people in the creation of any country



I tell you what, MJB - why don't you edit this statement so that it makes sense even to you, and then we can look at what you come up with.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 25, 2012)

Okay.  I apologize for not dumbing my statement down enough for you.  Try to think real real hard now.  You see, it means that somebody already was living in all lands that became countries even before the land was given a country name.  Get it yet?



Saigon said:


> > land was taken from people in the creation of any country
> 
> 
> 
> I tell you what, MJB - why don't you edit this statement so that it makes sense even to you, and then we can look at what you come up with.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 25, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Okay.  I apologize for not dumbing my statement down enough for you.  Try to think real real hard now.  You see, it means that somebody already was living in all lands that became countries even before the land was given a country name.  Get it yet?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Do you mean like all of the Palestinians living in Palestine before it legally became Palestine.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 25, 2012)

Problem here is that first of all there NEVER was any COUNTRY named Palestine.  And there NEVER were any indigenous Muslim Palestinians in the land.  There were however Jewish indigenous Palestinians.  Is that who mean?





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Okay.  I apologize for not dumbing my statement down enough for you.  Try to think real real hard now.  You see, it means that somebody already was living in all lands that became countries even before the land was given a country name.  Get it yet?
> ...


----------



## Saigon (May 25, 2012)

MJB - 

Please try and post like an adult. 



> land was taken from people in the creation of any country



How was land taken from people in the creation of Ethiopia?

of Italy?

of Thailand?

of Ireland?

of Iceland?

of Sweden?

of Bhutan?


----------



## Saigon (May 25, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Problem here is that first of all there NEVER was any COUNTRY named Palestine.  And there NEVER were any indigenous Muslim Palestinians in the land.  There were however Jewish indigenous Palestinians.  Is that who mean?



Really stupid, childish posting. 

There was no country called Palestine in antiquity because there no countries at all in antiquity.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 25, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Problem here is that first of all there NEVER was any COUNTRY named Palestine.  And there NEVER were any indigenous Muslim Palestinians in the land.  There were however Jewish indigenous Palestinians.  Is that who mean?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The Jews were only a few percent of Palestine's population. Who were all those other people?


----------



## Hossfly (May 25, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Problem here is that first of all there NEVER was any COUNTRY named Palestine.  And there NEVER were any indigenous Muslim Palestinians in the land.  There were however Jewish indigenous Palestinians.  Is that who mean?
> ...


Eskimos.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 25, 2012)

Good question.  Thanks for asking.  It is important everyone learns the truth about this issue.  There were lots of others indigenous to the land.  And not a single Muslim Palestinian among them.  Why is that?

Are Palestinians the Indigenous People of Palestine? DR.Rivka Shpak Lissak | Rivka Shpak Lissak





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Problem here is that first of all there NEVER was any COUNTRY named Palestine.  And there NEVER were any indigenous Muslim Palestinians in the land.  There were however Jewish indigenous Palestinians.  Is that who mean?
> ...


----------



## Hossfly (May 25, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > I'm doing some research for a paper on the mid-East
> ...


I do believe the subjectwas 'various religions.' And I said 'host of others' which meant Indonesia, Thailand, China, Phillipines and a host of others. Please remove your head from your third point of contact.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 25, 2012)

Please forgive them Hossfly.  THINKING is not one of their greater virtues.





Hossfly said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


----------



## Saigon (May 25, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



No, not at all - the statement was:



> land was taken from people in the creation of any country



ANY country seems fairly clear to me.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 25, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...



Did any of those people fight back?


----------



## MJB12741 (May 25, 2012)

Yes.  But unfortunately they were killed by the Muslim invadors for that.  Far better to just convert or leave, don't you think?





P F Tinmore said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 25, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Yes.  But unfortunately they were killed by the Muslim invadors for that.  Far better to just convert or leave, don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OK, but people have the right to fight back.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 25, 2012)

You bertcha.  Consider Israel's justifiable retaliations against the constant Palestinian attacks on Israel.




P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes.  But unfortunately they were killed by the Muslim invadors for that.  Far better to just convert or leave, don't you think?
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 25, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> You bertcha.  Consider Israel's justifiable retaliations against the constant Palestinian attacks on Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wasn't it the Zionists who started that war?


----------



## MJB12741 (May 25, 2012)

Well, what about the Palestinians killing the Jews in their land even before Zionist Israel in 1948?






P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > You bertcha.  Consider Israel's justifiable retaliations against the constant Palestinian attacks on Israel.
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 25, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Well, what about the Palestinians killing the Jews in their land even before Zionist Israel in 1948?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The Zionist invasion started 50 years before 1948.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 25, 2012)

Very interesting.  So how many Jews were there in Israel 50 years before 1948?  And what is wrong with bringing the Jews back to their ancient land in Israel?




P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, what about the Palestinians killing the Jews in their land even before Zionist Israel in 1948?
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 25, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Very interesting.  So how many Jews were there in Israel 50 years before 1948?  And what is wrong with bringing the Jews back to their ancient land in Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Most of those Jews had no ancestors who had ever been there. How can you "bring them back?"


----------



## MJB12741 (May 25, 2012)

Yeah, just a bunch of khazers, right?





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Very interesting.  So how many Jews were there in Israel 50 years before 1948?  And what is wrong with bringing the Jews back to their ancient land in Israel?
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 25, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Yeah, just a bunch of khazers, right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The Jews who wanted to live in the holy land were already living there and immigration was allowed.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 25, 2012)

Agreed.  So?





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, just a bunch of khazers, right?
> ...


----------



## Lipush (May 25, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, what about the Palestinians killing the Jews in their land even before Zionist Israel in 1948?
> ...



The Zionist "invasion" to the holy land started centuries before that, actually


----------



## Lipush (May 25, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Very interesting.  So how many Jews were there in Israel 50 years before 1948?  And what is wrong with bringing the Jews back to their ancient land in Israel?
> ...



Any Jew when coming to Israel is not actually "coming to Israel" but RETURNING TO ISRAEL.

Since the Jew belongs to Israel since birth.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 25, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Agreed.  So?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So Palestine was already the homeland of the Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 25, 2012)

Lipush said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



Returning is an interesting concept for people who have never been there. What about those who do have ancestors from there? Can they return too?


----------



## Hossfly (May 25, 2012)

Saigon said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...


Not my quote about the land being taken. That was a statement by MJB in reply to Ima. get real, Saigoon.


----------



## ima (May 25, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Problem here is that first of all there NEVER was any COUNTRY named Palestine.  And there NEVER were any indigenous Muslim Palestinians in the land.  There were however Jewish indigenous Palestinians.  Is that who mean?


before 1776, there was no country called the United States. So does that mean we don't exist? Or shouldn't


----------



## MJB12741 (May 25, 2012)

Please allow me to dumb it down for you so even you can understand.  It means before 1776 there was no USA.  Therefore the USA DID NOT exist as a country until then.  And Palestine has NEVER existed as a COUNTRY.  But there is a country of Israel.  Check it out.






ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Problem here is that first of all there NEVER was any COUNTRY named Palestine.  And there NEVER were any indigenous Muslim Palestinians in the land.  There were however Jewish indigenous Palestinians.  Is that who mean?
> ...


----------



## ima (May 25, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Please allow me to dumb it down for you so even you can understand.  It means before 1776 there was no USA.  Therefore the USA DID NOT exist as a country until then.  And Palestine has NEVER existed as a COUNTRY.  But there is a country of Israel.  Check it out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In case you missed it, peace talks have always revolved around creating a state of Palestine.
If there were "Jewish indigenous Palestinians", shouldn't their country have been called Palestine?


----------



## Jos (May 25, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Please allow me to dumb it down for you so even you can understand.  It means before 1776 there was no USA.  Therefore the USA DID NOT exist as a country until then.  And Palestine has NEVER existed as a COUNTRY.  But there is a country of Israel.  Check it out.


You win a coin!


----------



## MJB12741 (May 25, 2012)

Aw bless you Jos for showining everyone the truth.  Yep, written in Hebrew.  Like I said, the Jews were the indigenous Palestinians.  No Arab Muslim Palestinians at all until after the 7th century AD when they befgan stealing the land.





Jos said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Please allow me to dumb it down for you so even you can understand.  It means before 1776 there was no USA.  Therefore the USA DID NOT exist as a country until then.  And Palestine has NEVER existed as a COUNTRY.  But there is a country of Israel.  Check it out.
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 25, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Aw bless you Jos for showining everyone the truth.  Yep, written in Hebrew.  Like I said, the Jews were the indigenous Palestinians.  No Arab Muslim Palestinians at all until after the 7th century AD when they befgan stealing the land.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Indeed, Palestine was the homeland of the Jews.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 25, 2012)

So right you are.  In fact, Palestine was named for the Jews by the Roman emperer Hadrian in 135 A.D.  Keep it going.  You're on a roll.





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Aw bless you Jos for showining everyone the truth.  Yep, written in Hebrew.  Like I said, the Jews were the indigenous Palestinians.  No Arab Muslim Palestinians at all until after the 7th century AD when they befgan stealing the land.
> ...


----------



## Jos (May 25, 2012)

Ergo there was a country called Palestine, they had their own currency you stated "Palestine has NEVER existed as a COUNTRY", so which country do these coins belong to?


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 25, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> So right you are.  In fact, Palestine was named for the Jews by the Roman emperer Hadrian in 135 A.D.  Keep it going.  You're on a roll.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The Jews lived in peace in their Palestinian homeland. Then Israel came along and they have seen nothing but war ever since.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 25, 2012)

The coins belong to the Jews of THE LAND.  That is why they have Hebrew writing on them.  Surely even you must know there NEVER was any COUNTRY of Palestine.  And that includes from antiquity even to today.  If you don't believe me, check it out on your own.






Jos said:


> Ergo there was a country called Palestine, they had their own currency you stated "Palestine has NEVER existed as a COUNTRY", so which country do these coins belong to?


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 25, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> The coins belong to the Jews of THE LAND.  That is why they have Hebrew writing on them.  Surely even you must know there NEVER was any COUNTRY of Palestine.  And that includes from antiquity even to today.  If you don't believe me, check it out on your own.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Palestine had three official languages. English, Hebrew, and Arabic.


----------



## Jos (May 25, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> The coins belong to the Jews of THE LAND.  That is why they have Hebrew writing on them.  Surely even you must know there NEVER was any COUNTRY of Palestine.  And that includes from antiquity even to today.  If you don't believe me, check it out on your own.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They also have Arabic writing on the Palestinian coins, does that mean Arabs and jews lived together in Palestine?


----------



## MJB12741 (May 25, 2012)

Yes of course.  In fact long before 1948 the Palestinian Arabs had invaded the land.  And they are still stealing it even today.




Jos said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > The coins belong to the Jews of THE LAND.  That is why they have Hebrew writing on them.  Surely even you must know there NEVER was any COUNTRY of Palestine.  And that includes from antiquity even to today.  If you don't believe me, check it out on your own.
> ...


----------



## Jos (May 25, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Yes of course.  In fact long before 1948 the Palestinian Arabs had invaded the land.  And they are still stealing it even today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What was the name of the country, at that time?


----------



## Roudy (May 25, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Aw bless you Jos for showining everyone the truth.  Yep, written in Hebrew.  Like I said, the Jews were the indigenous Palestinians.  No Arab Muslim Palestinians at all until after the 7th century AD when they befgan stealing the land.
> ...


For thousands of years up until 1964 when the Arabs started calling themselves "Palestinians".


----------



## Roudy (May 25, 2012)

Jos said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes of course.  In fact long before 1948 the Palestinian Arabs had invaded the land.  And they are still stealing it even today.
> ...


That's a British coin. You picked that one because it doesn't have the seal of the Queen on it. The rest of the ones from that time frame do. More Islamic lies and Taquiah.


----------



## Roudy (May 25, 2012)

Jos said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > The coins belong to the Jews of THE LAND.  That is why they have Hebrew writing on them.  Surely even you must know there NEVER was any COUNTRY of Palestine.  And that includes from antiquity even to today.  If you don't believe me, check it out on your own.
> ...


As in the Hebron massacre?


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 25, 2012)

Roudy said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



Palestine was never part of Britain.


----------



## Jos (May 25, 2012)

Roudy said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



There was no Queen on any Palestine coins, I invite you to post a link


----------



## thetor (May 25, 2012)

Tweezerman said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Twezeerman -
> ...



So are you dunce


----------



## thetor (May 25, 2012)

SAYIT said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...



red flaggedtor


----------



## thetor (May 25, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Yes of course.  In fact long before 1948 the Palestinian Arabs had invaded the land.  And they are still stealing it even today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



U R NUTS.tor


----------



## Roudy (May 25, 2012)

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


Oh look what I found, Palestinian British pounds.


----------



## Roudy (May 25, 2012)

Jos said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Jos said:
> ...


Hey anytime you've eaten enough shit let us know okay:


----------



## Jos (May 26, 2012)

Roudy said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


What, No Queens Head?
http://www.usmessageboard.com/israe...et-there-be-peace-already-39.html#post5342200


----------



## MJB12741 (May 26, 2012)

HUH?  There was no country then.




Jos said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes of course.  In fact long before 1948 the Palestinian Arabs had invaded the land.  And they are still stealing it even today.
> ...


----------



## rhodescholar (May 26, 2012)

Jos said:


> What was the name of the country, at that time?



Yes, fucking turd, exactly - if there was no country there, then what could the jews have "stolen"?  

The low level of intelligence of the pro-arab muslim filth here is laughable.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 26, 2012)

I am learning that the more you try to discuss an issue with most of the Palestinian supporters like Jos, the more futile the effort becomes.


----------



## rhodescholar (May 26, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> I am learning that the more you try to discuss an issue with most of the Palestinian supporters like Jos, the more futile the effort becomes.



If you break them down:

- Jos: lowlife scum of the earth, a muslim terrorist supporter and fanatic psychotic hezbollah follower

- tin-douche: lies, has no brains, intellectual capability or honesty to discuss anything.  Regularly gets caught in lies and tries to change the subject like a good pro-arab mentally ill disciple

- lacking in the loins: a clueless internet teen who just heard of this whole situation from his junior high school teacher 3 weeks ago, so now this idiot thinks they can finally get a girlfriend at age 17 (yes, 17 but still in JHS) by touting anti-israel slogans

- sunni asshole - not even worth mentioning, makes the others look like rocket scientists and gives jos a run for person with lowest IQ and still able to be able to go to the bathroom without assistance

- idiot oats: nothing there to comment on, poster is a total zero who cannot form a sentence, likely writing its posts from an asylum or home for the mentally ill

- Saigon: easily the brightest of a very sad bunch - though this obviously doesn't say much - but with a 1.2 grade point average, he leads the team...

Did i miss anyone?


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 26, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > I am learning that the more you try to discuss an issue with most of the Palestinian supporters like Jos, the more futile the effort becomes.
> ...



*Nice rant!*


----------



## rhodescholar (May 26, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Nice rant!



Deflection.

Nothing to add as usual.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 26, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Nice rant!
> ...



OK, I will stick to your topic.



> Did i miss anyone?



Yes. You are a moron.


----------



## ima (May 27, 2012)

You missed ME!!!!!!!!!

cmon pleeeeeeeze call me a bad name and give me some more neg rep.


----------



## Jos (May 27, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> HUH?  There was no country then.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



By what name was The area  known as?


----------



## MJB12741 (May 27, 2012)

Aw, bless you for asking Jos.  Originally the land was named Israel. The land of the Jews until the Roman emperor Hadrian changed it to Palestine.  Same land, same indigenous Jewish heritage & still without a single Muslim yet to come to steal the land for about another 600 years.





Jos said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > HUH?  There was no country then.
> ...


----------



## ima (May 27, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Aw, bless you for asking Jos.  Originally the land was named Israel. The land of the Jews until the Roman emperor Hadrian changed it to Palestine.  Same land, same indigenous Jewish heritage & still without a single Muslim yet to come to steal the land for about another 600 years.



So what does that have to do with whom they took the land from in 1948? Anything at all?


----------



## docmauser1 (May 27, 2012)

ima said:


> _So what does that have to do with whom they took the land from in 1948?_


Ah. Arab major immigrants and their imaginary "land".


----------



## theliq (May 27, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > I am learning that the more you try to discuss an issue with most of the Palestinian supporters like Jos, the more futile the effort becomes.
> ...



YES ME,you fucking asshole.......you are of low mentality,a collaborator,and a foul mouth.I am theliq,I kick  assholes,now bend down low,let ME show you what I know.


----------



## theliq (May 27, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Aw, bless you for asking Jos.  Originally the land was named Israel. The land of the Jews until the Roman emperor Hadrian changed it to Palestine.  Same land, same indigenous Jewish heritage & still without a single Muslim yet to come to steal the land for about another 600 years.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



HUH'? The AREA/COUNTRY was known then

More Idiocy from the poorly read M,actually before the Jews moved into that area it was called Caanan.....get your f.,facts right.

And they lost it to the Romans.................so M your point IS.....as I thought...NOTHING as you lack and have like the other Zionists..NO CREDIBILITY,NO CREDIBILITY AT ALL. OF COURSE YOU ARE.king of kings H.I.M. theliq


----------



## theliq (May 28, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Nice rant!
> ...



Well you fuckwit,I have never been called trash before,and infact quite resent as my family do,being called trash.

I think you are Israeli based or White American Trash.

As for myself,I am a self made multi millionaire(which is no big deal)but it shows a great deal about a person,their motivation and positive attitude to others and oneself.

My mother was widowed at 29 with 6 children,what we never had in material things were compensated by love and affection,and an ethic for life.

I have several companies and employ over 300 people,my companies have always shown growth,I have never been in a position to retrentch(sack or put off)any employee,our team.

In the past 11 months we have purchased product from the US to the value of 10.6 million US dollars.

I have always treated folk,no matter where or which religion they are with utmost respect.

I have found this site full of people who are selfish,full of self interest and exceptionally ignorant of others....you I think must be the worst....and that's saying a lot,considering the drones on here.

You think you are clever,slagging everone off who differs from your skewed opinion(because it is more often YOUR opinion only).

Those that have supported you by pos-reps or within the thread,really need to look at themselves.

You are a foulmouth bully,but you lack one fundemental "A BACKBONE"

I hate to imagine you are someone like Stoney in a different presonna,which I don't because you are a one off,thankfully the broke the mould after they created such a creature as you.

Your rabid anti-semitism and anti Palestinian prose is only bettered by your foul mouthing,which after your first shocking post became a boor.

Now a bully is easily dealt with.............as you will see,as you know I only deal in fact and not threats.Just watch your back son.

Anyway,what makes you believe that you are so great,you have achieved nothing moreover the only thing that you could do better than any Palestinian...IS, WIPE THE DOG SHIT OFF THEIR SHOES.

As it's said  "SHIT BEGATS SHIT" and YOU ARE SHIT.    I'm theliq.now remember the name son.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 28, 2012)

BINGO!  Looks like even Ima finally sees the truth!  The land was Israel, the land of the Jews which Ima agrees.  And she asks "
what does that have to do with whom they took the land from in 1948? Anything at all"? [/QUOTE]


If the land is Israel the land of the Jews, where the hell did all the Palestinian squatters on Israel's land come from to steal the land of the Jews & when?



ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Aw, bless you for asking Jos.  Originally the land was named Israel. The land of the Jews until the Roman emperor Hadrian changed it to Palestine.  Same land, same indigenous Jewish heritage & still without a single Muslim yet to come to steal the land for about another 600 years.
> ...


----------



## docmauser1 (May 28, 2012)

theliq said:


> _iactually before the Jews moved into that area it was called Caanan....._


And absolutely no palistan and its palistanians around! Hallelujah!


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 28, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> BINGO!  Looks like even Ima finally sees the truth!  The land was Israel, the land of the Jews which Ima agrees.  And she asks "
> what does that have to do with whom they took the land from in 1948? Anything at all"?




If the land is Israel the land of the Jews, where the hell did all the Palestinian squatters on Israel's land come from to steal the land of the Jews & when?



ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Aw, bless you for asking Jos.  Originally the land was named Israel. The land of the Jews until the Roman emperor Hadrian changed it to Palestine.  Same land, same indigenous Jewish heritage & still without a single Muslim yet to come to steal the land for about another 600 years.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvGJvzwKqg0]Don&#39;t Bogart That Joint! - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## ima (May 29, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> BINGO!  Looks like even Ima finally sees the truth!  The land was Israel, the land of the Jews which Ima agrees.  And she asks "
> what does that have to do with whom they took the land from in 1948? Anything at all"?
> 
> 
> If the land is Israel the land of the Jews, where the hell did all the Palestinian squatters on Israel's land come from to steal the land of the Jews & when?



Are you really that dense or did you know that I meant if an oriental family owned a house and got kicked out of it so they could make way for Israel, that family got screwed and have a legitimate grievance with Israel. It makes no difference who owned that house 3000 years ago, that's completely irrelevant.


----------



## docmauser1 (May 29, 2012)

ima said:


> _It makes no difference who owned that house 3000 years ago, that's completely irrelevant._


But, of course it does, with arab major immigrants, as per Churchill, claiming they've owned something there before!


----------



## ima (May 29, 2012)

docmauser1 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > _It makes no difference who owned that house 3000 years ago, that's completely irrelevant._
> ...



Churchill was an alcoholic.


----------



## Hossfly (May 29, 2012)

ima said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


So was U.S. Grant.


----------



## rhodescholar (May 29, 2012)

ima said:


> Churchill was an alcoholic.



And the concept of dar al-islam is well known, where every inch of land once under muslim control must always remain so.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 29, 2012)

Gosh I wonder what ever happened to Zoroastrian Persia's land?





rhodescholar said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Churchill was an alcoholic.
> ...


----------



## ima (May 30, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > docmauser1 said:
> ...



 relevance?


----------



## MJB12741 (May 30, 2012)

Documented Fact:  There were no Muslims at all, let alone Palestinian Muslims until after the 7th century AD.  Thus all Muslim lands are stolen lands from the native populations.





MJB12741 said:


> Gosh I wonder what ever happened to Zoroastrian Persia's land?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## ima (May 30, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Documented Fact:  There were no Muslims at all, let alone Palestinian Muslims until after the 7th century AD.  Thus all Muslim lands are stolen lands from the native populations.
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> ...



And there were no Jews before their religion was invented, so they stole the land from the indigenous people before them. Your point is...


----------



## MJB12741 (May 30, 2012)

Aw, bless you for asking Ima.  My point is that Israel existed in antiquity long before there were any Muslims at all, let alone Muslim Paletinians.  Hopefully you deny this.  Otherwise is it not the Muslim Palestinians who are stealing or occupying Israel's land?





ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Documented Fact:  There were no Muslims at all, let alone Palestinian Muslims until after the 7th century AD.  Thus all Muslim lands are stolen lands from the native populations.
> ...


----------



## ima (May 30, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Aw, bless you for asking Ima.  My point is that Israel existed in antiquity long before there were any Muslims at all, let alone Muslim Paletinians.  Hopefully you deny this.  Otherwise is it not the Muslim Palestinians who are stealing or occupying Israel's land?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But the conflict arises from Israel taking people's land in 1948, like for example, if I was there and they took my house and shipped me off the Gaza or some other shithole, naturally, I'd be pissed, especially if they killed a few of my friends and family.
What's the matter with you people? Why can't you see this? Only when you address the real problems can positive things happen.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 30, 2012)

You mean when Israel knocks on Palestinian doors to take away their homes & move them elswhere, the Israeli's don't even honor the Palestinians land deeds to the property?





ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Aw, bless you for asking Ima.  My point is that Israel existed in antiquity long before there were any Muslims at all, let alone Muslim Paletinians.  Hopefully you deny this.  Otherwise is it not the Muslim Palestinians who are stealing or occupying Israel's land?
> ...


----------



## ima (May 31, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> You mean when Israel knocks on Palestinian doors to take away their homes & move them elswhere, the Israeli's don't even honor the Palestinians land deeds to the property?
> 
> 
> ima said:
> ...


You can hide behind any false rationalization that you want to obfuscate a wrong, but I seriously doubt that you would say anything like that if it was you and your family who got deported to Gaza and had some of your friends and relatives killed along the way. So see? You can't even admit that what happened back then was wrong, and you wonder why they want to nuke you.


----------



## rhodescholar (May 31, 2012)

ima said:


> But the conflict arises from Israel taking people's land in 1948, like for example, if I was there and they took my house and shipped me off the Gaza or some other shithole, naturally, I'd be pissed, especially if they killed a few of my friends and family.
> What's the matter with you people? Why can't you see this? Only when you address the real problems can positive things happen.



How fucking stupid can you be, asshole?

If the arabs had not attacked in '48 after israel declared itself and independent state, they would not have lost an inch.


----------



## ima (May 31, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > But the conflict arises from Israel taking people's land in 1948, like for example, if I was there and they took my house and shipped me off the Gaza or some other shithole, naturally, I'd be pissed, especially if they killed a few of my friends and family.
> ...



So basically you're saying that when Israel declared its borders in 1948, no one got screwed and all the arabs were smiling and high fiving the new Israelis?


----------



## MJB12741 (May 31, 2012)

Problem is if the Paletinians didn't attack Israel in 1948, they would have had their own Palestinian State to deal with.  No more just sucking off Israel for their well being.





rhodescholar said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > But the conflict arises from Israel taking people's land in 1948, like for example, if I was there and they took my house and shipped me off the Gaza or some other shithole, naturally, I'd be pissed, especially if they killed a few of my friends and family.
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 31, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Problem is if the Paletinians didn't attack Israel in 1948, they would have had their own Palestinian State to deal with.  No more just sucking off Israel for their well being.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The Palestinians did not attack Israel in 1948.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 31, 2012)

Eh, Tinmore.  How quicly you forget.  Any comments?


1948 Arab




P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Problem is if the Paletinians didn't attack Israel in 1948, they would have had their own Palestinian State to deal with.  No more just sucking off Israel for their well being.
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 31, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Eh, Tinmore.  How quicly you forget.  Any comments?
> 
> 
> 1948 Arab
> ...



All of those Arab forces entered Palestine.


----------



## rhodescholar (May 31, 2012)

ima said:


> So basically you're saying that when Israel declared its borders in 1948, no one got screwed and all the arabs were smiling and high fiving the new Israelis?



The jews got a nation, and the arabs did - but the arabs have to have everything, which is why minorities are so badly treated across the middle east.  The arabs chose war over being satisfied with getting part of the land, or over diplomacy if they were dissatisfied.

Interesting how you sidestep how it was the arabs who chose war to address the situation, rather than diplomacy/negotiations.  But as stated before, only arabs can use violence to resolve political grievances, everyone else has to use multi-lateralism/diplomacy.

We rarely hear about assyrians, chaldeans, copts, maronites, kurds, etc., because they did not choose to fight back against the tyranny of the arab muslims - only the jews did.  That's why, despite have huge numbers of minorities across the middle east, there is only one non-muslim nation: Israel.

When the arab muslims start respecting the rights of other, indigenous groups to have sovereignty, then there might be a chance for peace in the middle east.  As long as the arabs demand control over all others, there never will be.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 31, 2012)

Oh I see.  So the Palestinians protested what the Arab forces were doing rather than join them, right?




P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Eh, Tinmore.  How quicly you forget.  Any comments?
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 31, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Oh I see.  So the Palestinians protested what the Arab forces were doing rather than join them, right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



All of those countries fought Israeli troops in Palestine. None of them entered Israel.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 31, 2012)

HUH??? You are the fellow who said Israel & Palestine is one & the same piece of land.





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh I see.  So the Palestinians protested what the Arab forces were doing rather than join them, right?
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (Jun 1, 2012)

There will be no peace here until Israel ends the occupation by finding an incentive to offer the Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.


----------



## Hossfly (Jun 1, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> There will be no peace here until Israel ends the occupation by finding an incentive to offer the Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.


Anyone for donating the price of a one-way ticket? Should be plenty of willing donors.


----------



## docmauser1 (Jun 1, 2012)

ima said:


> _So basically you're saying that when Israel declared its borders in 1948, no one got screwed and all the arabs were smiling and high fiving the new Israelis?_


Leaving the border issue aside for now, we, indeed, may say that arabs were nursing their sore asses. Unenviable occupation much, after all those wild-eyed expectations-anticipations of murdering jews and plundering jewish property, isn't it?


----------



## docmauser1 (Jun 1, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> _The Palestinians did not attack Israel in 1948._


Indeed, they didn't exist back then.


----------



## docmauser1 (Jun 1, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> _All of those countries fought Israeli troops in Palestine. None of them entered Israel._


Great! Let palistanians demand all their so-called grievances be met by those arabs! Isn't that fair?!


----------



## docmauser1 (Jun 1, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> _Anyone for donating the price of a one-way ticket? Should be plenty of willing donors._


Indeedy, sir. The problem solved!


----------



## MJB12741 (Jun 2, 2012)

Muslim Paletinians were NEVER indigenous to the land of Israel/Palestine.  But the Jews were.  Holy mackeral, is it actually possible the Muslim Palestinians are stealing Israel's land?





docmauser1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > _The Palestinians did not attack Israel in 1948._
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 2, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Muslim Paletinians were NEVER indigenous to the land of Israel/Palestine.  But the Jews were.  Holy mackeral, is it actually possible the Muslim Palestinians are stealing Israel's land?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No they weren't. The Jews were immigrants from Egypt.


----------



## MJB12741 (Jun 2, 2012)

Which came first. Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Muslim Paletinians were NEVER indigenous to the land of Israel/Palestine.  But the Jews were.  Holy mackeral, is it actually possible the Muslim Palestinians are stealing Israel's land?
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 2, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Which came first. Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It doesn't matter. The Jews were not the first people in Palestine nor were they *ever* the only people there.

There is no historic precedent for an exclusive Jewish state.


----------



## MJB12741 (Jun 2, 2012)

There IS an historic precendent for a Jewish State.  This was granted both morally & legally by a vote of world UN member nations, whereas all Muslim lands are stolen lands conquered by force.





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Which came first. Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 2, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> There IS an historic precendent for a Jewish State.  This was granted both morally & legally by a vote of world UN member nations, whereas all Muslim lands are stolen lands conquered by force.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not true. The UN had nothing to do with the creation of Israel.


----------



## MJB12741 (Jun 2, 2012)

I like you Tinmore for being willing to discuss the issues in a civilized manner, even when you jest like now.






P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > There IS an historic precendent for a Jewish State.  This was granted both morally & legally by a vote of world UN member nations, whereas all Muslim lands are stolen lands conquered by force.
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 2, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> I like you Tinmore for being willing to discuss the issues in a civilized manner, even when you jest like now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OK, what did the UN have to do in the creation of Israel?


----------



## MJB12741 (Jun 2, 2012)

It was the UN vote that made Israel officially a Jewish State.  You know, one that is so apartheid that it is the only country in the entire Middle East to have citizens of virtually all living faiths & their houses of worship protected by the Israeli government of which Palestinians even have representatives in the Knesset.

Just curious, how many Jews are there as citizens in Arab countries with representation in their governments?




P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > I like you Tinmore for being willing to discuss the issues in a civilized manner, even when you jest like now.
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 2, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> It was the UN vote that made Israel officially a Jewish State.  You know, one that is so apartheid that it is the only country in the entire Middle East to have citizens of virtually all living faiths & their houses of worship protected by the Israeli government of which Palestinians even have representatives in the Knesset.
> 
> Just curious, how many Jews are there as citizens in Arab countries with representation in their governments?
> 
> ...





> It was the UN vote that made Israel officially a Jewish State.



What UN vote was that?


----------



## MJB12741 (Jun 2, 2012)

http://www.factsofisrael.com/archives/000520.html





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > It was the UN vote that made Israel officially a Jewish State.  You know, one that is so apartheid that it is the only country in the entire Middle East to have citizens of virtually all living faiths & their houses of worship protected by the Israeli government of which Palestinians even have representatives in the Knesset.
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 2, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> http://www.factsofisrael.com/archives/000520.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> Page not Found



Thanks for the link. Somebody must have flushed.


----------



## MJB12741 (Jun 2, 2012)

Formation of Israel as Jewish State



The Holocaust, the killing of approximately 6 million European Jews by the Nazis, had a major impact on the situation in Palestine. During World War II Britain, which had been granted a mandate over Palestine by the United Nations, forbade entry into Palestine for European Jews escaping Nazi persecution. 

On November 29, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly voted 33 to 13, with 10 abstentions, in favor of a Partition Plan that created the State of Israel. The British reliquished their mandate over Palestine in 1948. War broke out between the Arabs and Jews soon after. The 1948 Arab-Israeli War, established the state of Israel as an independent state, with the rest of the British Mandate of Palestine split into areas controlled by Egypt and Transjordan. 

In 1949, Israel signed separate cease-fire agreements with Egypt on February 24, Lebanon on March 23, Transjordan on April 3, and Syria on July 20. Israel was able to draw its own borders, occupying 70% of Mandatory Palestine, fifty percent more than the UN partition proposal allotted them. These borders have been known afterwards as the "Green Line". The Gaza Strip and West Bank were occupied by Egypt and Transjordan respectively. 

While the establishment of the state of Israel was seen by Christian Zionists as a sign that God was fulfilling his promises to Abraham and Jacob, the early political leaders of Israel were primarily secular. David Ben Gurion, Israel's Prime Minister from the founding of Israel until 1963, represented the secular Ideals of the early Zionists. For practical reasons, Ben Gurion accepted the boundaries that excluded the ancient Jewish lands of Samaria and Judea in the West Bank. The early Israeli leaders also agreed to a divided Jerusalem. 
Last updated: January-2005


----------



## Jos (Jun 2, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Formation of Israel as Jewish State
> 
> 
> 
> The Holocaust, the killing of approximately 6 million European Jews by the Nazis,



Hey, what about all the other non Jewish victims?


----------



## MJB12741 (Jun 2, 2012)

Good point.  They are mentioned in every Holocaust museum thanks to Israel.   Any quesions on that historical UN vote making Israel officially a Jewish State?




Jos said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Formation of Israel as Jewish State
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 2, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Good point.  They are mentioned in every Holocaust museum thanks to Israel.   Any quesions on that historical UN vote making Israel officially a Jewish State?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> Any quesions on that historical UN vote making Israel officially a Jewish State?



Yes.


----------



## Hossfly (Jun 2, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Good point.  They are mentioned in every Holocaust museum thanks to Israel.   Any quesions on that historical UN vote making Israel officially a Jewish State?
> ...


Tinmore knows. Tell them Tinmore. That 30-13 vote was illegal and doesn't count. Therefore Israel doesn't exist. Keep 'em straight and on their toes,Tinnie. Atta boy.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 2, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



That looks like UN General Assembly resolution 181. Resolution 181 was a proposal for the Security Council to partition Palestine.

The Security Council rejected the proposal. Resolution 181 was not implemented.


----------



## rhodescholar (Jun 2, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> The Security Council rejected the proposal. Resolution 181 was not implemented.



So then why did the arab muslims attack, idiot asshole?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 2, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > The Security Council rejected the proposal. Resolution 181 was not implemented.
> ...



They didn't.


----------



## MJB12741 (Jun 2, 2012)

Well, you see what happened is Israel paid the Arab countries to unite & mount armed forces to surround Israel & threaten to annihilate Israel so Israel could attack them, route them & then steal their land & claim it was for security.  Right Tinmore?





P F Tinmore said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


----------



## rhodescholar (Jun 2, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> They didn't.



Lying twat scumbag fucking turd:

1948 Arab

"Within hours of the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel, five of the seven countries of the Arab League at that time, namely Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria, backed by Saudi Arabian and Yemenite contingents invaded..."

Tin-douche, you are clearly mentally ill, you're so very sick - and stupid.  It's really sad.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 2, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > They didn't.
> ...





> namely Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria, backed by Saudi Arabian and Yemenite contingents invaded..."



Why did you stop after "invaded?" Because it *did not say* "invaded Israel?"

Just like I said. They did not invade Israel.


----------



## MJB12741 (Jun 2, 2012)

Oh you mean the Arab countries united in mass with weapons to welcome the reestablishment of Israel by the member nations of the UN?




P F Tinmore said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 2, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Oh you mean the Arab countries united in mass with weapons to welcome the reestablishment of Israel by the member nations of the UN?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The UN did not establish anything.

The Arab states did not invade Israel.


----------



## MJB12741 (Jun 2, 2012)

Hey Mr. Tinmore, remember this?

Arab Threats Against Israel




P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh you mean the Arab countries united in mass with weapons to welcome the reestablishment of Israel by the member nations of the UN?
> ...


----------



## rhodescholar (Jun 2, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Why did you stop after "invaded?" Because it *did not say* "invaded Israel?"  Just like I said. They did not invade Israel.



Wrong, turd.  Israel was declared a sovereign state, by the significant number of residents living in the portion set aside for jews, and the arabs attacked them.

You also claimed that the arabs did not attack - which is a lie.  If you were not a complete fucking scumbag idiot jew-hating douchebag, I'd be willing to ask questions like why do you accept the arab onslaught, instead of trying for a diplomatic solution - but you are fucking worthless trash not worthy or capable of a rational conversation.  Back to ignore, twat douchebag...


----------



## rhodescholar (Jun 2, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> The UN did not establish anything.The Arab states did not invade Israel.



LOL.  To the jew hating fucking scumbags like this, self-determination is not something allowed for jews, only arab muslims LOL. 

Psychotic, worthless fucking trash.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 3, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Why did you stop after "invaded?" Because it *did not say* "invaded Israel?"  Just like I said. They did not invade Israel.
> ...



Why don't you post a 1948 map of Israel showing where the Arab countries entered Israel?


----------



## docmauser1 (Jun 3, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> _Why don't you post a 1948 map of Israel showing where the Arab countries entered Israel?_


There's a problem - arabs are too shy to publish pics of their sore asses, of course.


----------



## Jos (Jun 3, 2012)

> Within hours of the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel, five of the seven countries of the Arab League at that time, namely Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria, backed by Saudi Arabian and Yemenite contingents invaded territory in the former British Mandate of Palestine on the night of 14&#8211;15 May 1948.


1948 Arab


----------



## MJB12741 (Jun 3, 2012)

Thanks Jos.





Jos said:


> > Within hours of the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel, five of the seven countries of the Arab League at that time, namely Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria, backed by Saudi Arabian and Yemenite contingents invaded territory in the former British Mandate of Palestine on the night of 1415 May 1948.
> 
> 
> 1948 Arab


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 3, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Thanks Jos.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> ...invaded territory in the former British Mandate of Palestine...



Well it didn't say "invaded Israel."


----------



## MJB12741 (Jun 3, 2012)

Now lookie here.  YOU are the guy who said what I call Israel & you call Palestine "is one & the same piece of land."  




P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Jos.
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 3, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Now lookie here.  YOU are the guy who said what I call Israel & you call Palestine "is one & the same piece of land."
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They are both on Palestinian land so you could say that.


----------



## MJB12741 (Jun 3, 2012)

This is the part I don't understand.  Help me out here.  When did Israel's ancient land become this "Palestinian land" you refer to?





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Now lookie here.  YOU are the guy who said what I call Israel & you call Palestine "is one & the same piece of land."
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 3, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> This is the part I don't understand.  Help me out here.  When did Israel's ancient land become this "Palestinian land" you refer to?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good question. Why don't you research it and post your findings?


----------



## MJB12741 (Jun 3, 2012)

Honestly Tinmore, you speak as if the Muslim Palestinians are stealing Israel's land.  How can that be when those Zionists built their wailing wall around the Al Asqa Mosque?





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > This is the part I don't understand.  Help me out here.  When did Israel's ancient land become this "Palestinian land" you refer to?
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (Jun 4, 2012)

In discussing the land issue with the Palestinian supporters, more & more we learn of the Palestinian occupation of Israel's land.






MJB12741 said:


> Honestly Tinmore, you speak as if the Muslim Palestinians are stealing Israel's land.  How can that be when those Zionists built their wailing wall around the Al Asqa Mosque?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (Jun 5, 2012)

My bitch against Israel is for keeping the Palestinians captives with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions rather than find a way to help free the Palestinians back to their indigenous homelands.


----------



## ima (Jun 5, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> My bitch against Israel is for keeping the Palestinians captives with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions rather than find a way to help free the Palestinians back to their indigenous homelands.



So you're for the right of return to Israel for all the displaced arabs? Cool.


----------



## MJB12741 (Jun 5, 2012)

Does Ima ever hit on all cylinders?  FYI, I have always supported a Palestinian right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  And why would any Palestinian want to return to Israel's prison you refer to?  Do you hate Palestinians so much you want them kept as captives in Israel rather than Israel free them?





ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > My bitch against Israel is for keeping the Palestinians captives with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions rather than find a way to help free the Palestinians back to their indigenous homelands.
> ...


----------



## rhodescholar (Jun 5, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Why don't you post a 1948 map of Israel



Israel's Borders After 1948 War

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/invade48.html


----------



## ima (Jun 6, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Does Ima ever hit on all cylinders?  FYI, I have always supported a Palestinian right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  And why would any Palestinian want to return to Israel's prison you refer to?  Do you hate Palestinians so much you want them kept as captives in Israel rather than Israel free them?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So SOME arabs must be able to claim Israel as their birth place, no? You're not going to try to say that NO arabs come from the land that was used to form Israel, are you?
Anyways, Jews come from Egypt, maybe they should go home as well?


----------



## MJB12741 (Jun 6, 2012)

Israel cannot steal land that was theirs before being invaded by Muslims.  Get it yet?





ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Does Ima ever hit on all cylinders?  FYI, I have always supported a Palestinian right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  And why would any Palestinian want to return to Israel's prison you refer to?  Do you hate Palestinians so much you want them kept as captives in Israel rather than Israel free them?
> ...


----------



## ima (Jun 6, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Israel cannot steal land that was theirs before being invaded by Muslims.  Get it yet?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So once a Jew steps on land, it's theirs for eternity?


----------



## MJB12741 (Jun 6, 2012)

Not Jews, Muslims.  Hey Ima whatever happened to the Persian Zoroastrians?






ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Israel cannot steal land that was theirs before being invaded by Muslims.  Get it yet?
> ...


----------



## rhodescholar (Jun 6, 2012)

ima said:


> So once a Jew steps on land, it's theirs for eternity?



Muslims believe so, they call it dar-al Islam.


----------



## ERGO (Jun 6, 2012)

*Brainwashed Christian Zionist extremists support for Israel *

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf5RSsvClQQ&feature=related]Brainwashed Christian Zionist extremists support for Israel - YouTube[/ame]


*Israeli Children being brainwashed to become Intolerant zionists. *

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiRNaPN4OSg]Israeli Children being brainwashed to become Intolerant zionists. - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Emanamana (Jun 6, 2012)

JStone said:


> > Torah: Love thy neighbor.  Love the stranger.  Love the foreigner.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 6, 2012)

ERGO said:


> *Brainwashed Christian Zionist extremists support for Israel *
> 
> Brainwashed Christian Zionist extremists support for Israel - YouTube
> 
> ...



I guess Israel forgot to tell Hagee that Israel was bulldozing Christian homes to make room for more settlers.


----------



## Hossfly (Jun 7, 2012)

ERGO said:


> *Brainwashed Christian Zionist extremists support for Israel *
> 
> Brainwashed Christian Zionist extremists support for Israel - YouTube
> 
> ...


What's wrong with that?


----------



## eots (Jun 7, 2012)

Emanamana said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > > Torah: Love thy neighbor.  Love the stranger.  Love the foreigner.
> ...


----------



## ima (Jun 7, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > So once a Jew steps on land, it's theirs for eternity?
> ...



So are you all going to stop bringing up who was there 3000 years ago? Because I know that you know that that's irrelevant.


----------



## rhodescholar (Jun 7, 2012)

ima said:


> So are you all going to stop bringing up who was there 3000 years ago? Because I know that you know that that's irrelevant.



Why is it "irrelevent"?  On what grounds do muslims have to claim the region since they are the latest group to come to it, immigrated in large numbers as the jews have for the past 100 years, and were only sovereign over the area due to military conquest?

The best solution was a negotiated split of the area - but the intolerant muslims won't accept the rights of anyone else, as the entirety of the mideast shows.


----------



## ERGO (Jun 7, 2012)

*Jewish Man Exposes Israel's Lies *

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCKWDarNdGw]Jewish Man Exposes Israel&#39;s Lies - YouTube[/ame]


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## MJB12741 (Jun 7, 2012)

Well lets figure this out who is stealing who's land?  Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?






ima said:


> rhodescholar said:
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> > ima said:
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## P F Tinmore (Jun 7, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Well lets figure this out who is stealing who's land?  Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Foreigners from Europe went to Palestine and drove the people off their land at the point of a gun.

You need to read up on history.


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## MJB12741 (Jun 7, 2012)

HUH???  Are you saying Solomon's Temple predated the Al Asqa Mosque before the Muslim theft of Israel's land?





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Well lets figure this out who is stealing who's land?  Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 7, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> HUH???  Are you saying Solomon's Temple predated the Al Asqa Mosque before the Muslim theft of Israel's land?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No, you are saying that.


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## MJB12741 (Jun 7, 2012)

So am I wrong in saying Solomon's Temple long predated the Al Asqa Mosque?





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > HUH???  Are you saying Solomon's Temple predated the Al Asqa Mosque before the Muslim theft of Israel's land?
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 7, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> So am I wrong in saying Solomon's Temple long predated the Al Asqa Mosque?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not wrong. Only irrelevant.


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## MJB12741 (Jun 7, 2012)

Why is it that whenever truth is posted that even you agree with, truth becomes "irrelevant"?





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > So am I wrong in saying Solomon's Temple long predated the Al Asqa Mosque?
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 7, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Why is it that whenever truth is posted that even you agree with, truth becomes "irrelevant"?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OK, the Jews were immigrants from Egypt.


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## ERGO (Jun 7, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> So am I wrong in saying Solomon's Temple long predated the Al Asqa Mosque?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It doesn't matter if Solomon Temple was there before Al Asqa Mosque. If you abandoned  your land and stopped paying taxes on it and someone else comes along moves in on it and pays the taxes on it, that land is no longer yours because you forfeited your rights to it by abandoning it.


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## ima (Jun 7, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> HUH???  Are you saying Solomon's Temple predated the Al Asqa Mosque before the Muslim theft of Israel's land?



Before Jews even existed, a race of ape people (sort of like Lucy) lived in what is now Palestine. So everyone's a squatter according to you.


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## MJB12741 (Jun 7, 2012)

The Jews never "abandoned" the land.  




ERGO said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > So am I wrong in saying Solomon's Temple long predated the Al Asqa Mosque?
> ...


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## ima (Jun 7, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> The Jews never "abandoned" the land.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sure they did, they left Egypt and got saved by the parting of the Red Sea and Yul Brynner got his ass wupped. Didn't you see the movie?


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## MJB12741 (Jun 7, 2012)

Oh Ima, what are we to do with you?  Heh Heh!





ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
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> 
> > The Jews never "abandoned" the land.
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## ima (Jun 8, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Oh Ima, what are we to do with you?  Heh Heh!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So when are you all going back to Egypt?


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## MJB12741 (Jun 8, 2012)

Maybe when Israel steals their land.  Okay by you?





ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh Ima, what are we to do with you?  Heh Heh!
> ...


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## ima (Jun 8, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Maybe when Israel steals their land.  Okay by you?
> 
> 
> ima said:
> ...


Wow! makes no sense. At least you're consistent. 
Anyways, didn't the Jews wander the desert for 40 years, thereby giving up claim to any specific piece of land?


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## MJB12741 (Jun 8, 2012)

BINGO  Even Ima now gets it.  How proud of you I am Ima.  Absolutely correct.  Egypt was never Jewish land to begin with.  So why did you ask when will the Jews will return to their land in Egypt?  And who said Ima is incapable of seeing the truth?





ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe when Israel steals their land.  Okay by you?
> ...


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## MJB12741 (Jun 10, 2012)

So Ima, if you were prime minister of Israel, what would your peace proposal be to the Palestinians?


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## MJB12741 (Jun 11, 2012)

Hey Ima, how's about Israel turns over all their nukes, fighter jets, tanks & all other sophisticated weaponry to the noble peace loving, life loving Palestinians to protect Israel.  Would that be an acceptable peace initiative for you?


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## Hossfly (Jun 11, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> So Ima, if you were prime minister of Israel, what would your peace proposal be to the Palestinians?


MJ, you've asked that question of a few people and no replies. Maybe you should increase the size of your font and put it in red. All caps. They just don't see your post.


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 11, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > So Ima, if you were prime minister of Israel, what would your peace proposal be to the Palestinians?
> ...



Everything inside Israel's borders is Israel. Everything inside Palestine's borders is Palestine.


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## Hossfly (Jun 11, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
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> 
> > MJB12741 said:
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What's the point, Hazel?


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## MJB12741 (Jun 12, 2012)

Good point.  That may be it.  And here I thought they either don't want peace or are incapable of thinking on their own.




Hossfly said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > So Ima, if you were prime minister of Israel, what would your peace proposal be to the Palestinians?
> ...


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## Hossfly (Jun 12, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Good point.  That may be it.  And here I thought they either don't want peace or are incapable of thinking on their own.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They may want peace.I don't know. About the thinking part, they seem to have Tinmoreitis.Every time they try to think, they seem to develop severe muscle cramps between the ears. Possible cause is all that rampant inbreeding.


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## MJB12741 (Jun 12, 2012)

I have noticed that Tinmore often suffers from memory loss over statements he previously made on this board.  





Hossfly said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Good point.  That may be it.  And here I thought they either don't want peace or are incapable of thinking on their own.
> ...


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## ima (Jun 12, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> So Ima, if you were prime minister of Israel, what would your peace proposal be to the Palestinians?



I already said:

retreat unilaterally to 1967 borders 
Leave the WB without destroying anything
Jerusalem as an international city open to all.
Compensate those who lost land in 1948 (or their descendants)


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 12, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > So Ima, if you were prime minister of Israel, what would your peace proposal be to the Palestinians?
> ...



I agree that compensation could be offered as an alternative to the right of return.

>Would that compensation be at current market values?
>Would that compensation include 60 years of lost income for factories, farms, and orchards?
>Who would have to pay this compensation?


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## MJB12741 (Jun 12, 2012)

So the deal is Israel is to give the Palestinians anything & everything they ask for & the Palestinians Issue israel an IOU for peace.  is that correct?

Hey, how's about this?  Israel turns over all their nukes, fighter jets, tanks & all other sophisticated weaponry to the noble peace loving, life loving Palestinians to protect Israel & the surrounding Arab countries as well? 





P F Tinmore said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
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