# Used and abused: UK's young girls



## Vikrant

LONDON: Six men under investigation in Britain over alleged child sex exploitation were ordered Wednesday to stay away from girls, in what police hailed as a "groundbreaking" court ruling.

London's High Court issued an injunction banning the men from Birmingham, in central England, from approaching "any female under 18" with whom they are not associated.

The move was aimed at protecting a vulnerable 17-year-old girl in authority care who had been found by police in a hotel room and around cars with men, the court heard.

A judge ruled Wednesday that the men, who have not been convicted of any crime in relation to the teenager, could be named, despite objections from police concerned about their safety.

Judge Michael Keehan said there was "a high public interest in the public having the right to know what has happened in this case".

Injunctions were made against Mohammed Anjam, Omar Ahmed, Naseem Khan, Mohammed Javed, Shah Alam and Sajid Hussain -- who all come from the Birmingham area.

Most of the men denied any wrongdoing.

One told reporters as he left court Wednesday that the proceedings were "racist" and said he would appeal the decision.

Detective Chief Superintendent Danny Long, head of West Midlands Police's Public Protection Unit, defended the injunctions which he said followed months of investigations.

"Being found in a hotel room with a child isn't a crime. Being in a taxi with a child isn't a crime. Having the number of a vulnerable child in your phone or on your social media network isn't a crime. But these injunctions mean that it is now prohibited for these men," he said.

He added that the court orders were "incredibly restricting", prohibiting "any contact, in any form, with any girl under 18 years of age, who they can't prove they know".

He said anyone who breached an injunction could face prison.

Lawyers for Birmingham City Council, who launched civil court proceedings against 10 men, are due to present more evidence against several others on Thursday.

Authorities say there is currently inadequate evidence for a criminal conviction. – AFP

Men barred from approaching girls in UK anti-grooming case theSundaily


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## anotherlife

Pedophilia is like all other sex crimes, totally incurable.  Psychologists and liberals think that everything is curable.  Sometimes, the only cure is the bullet/gallow.  Why can't we do executions any more?


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## Coyote

There's been a lot of scandal in the UK in regards to sexual crimes against children being covered up going back some years.

A ‘big political cover-up’ of 1980s pedophile-ring in U.K. Parliament?

This is also from July but - it's disturbing to read the occupations of some of the people arrested but it sounds like they are taking things seriously and trying to clean it up: National Crime Agency - UK-wide operation snares 660 suspected paedophiles

_An unprecedented six-month operation coordinated by the NCA and involving 45 police forces across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland has led to the arrest of 660 suspected paedophiles.
More than 400 children across the UK have been safeguarded.
Some of those arrested had unsupervised access to children in the course of their work. *They include doctors, teachers, scout leaders, care workers and former police officers.*_​


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## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> There's been a lot of scandal in the UK in regards to sexual crimes against children being covered up going back some years.
> 
> A ‘big political cover-up’ of 1980s pedophile-ring in U.K. Parliament?
> 
> This is also from July but - it's disturbing to read the occupations of some of the people arrested but it sounds like they are taking things seriously and trying to clean it up: National Crime Agency - UK-wide operation snares 660 suspected paedophiles
> 
> _An unprecedented six-month operation coordinated by the NCA and involving 45 police forces across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland has led to the arrest of 660 suspected paedophiles.
> More than 400 children across the UK have been safeguarded.
> Some of those arrested had unsupervised access to children in the course of their work. *They include doctors, teachers, scout leaders, care workers and former police officers.*_​



Seriously disturbing.  How were they able to get away with this?  Does nobody care about these kids?  WTH?  Hearing about stuff like this, just makes me soooo angry.


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## Phoenall

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's been a lot of scandal in the UK in regards to sexual crimes against children being covered up going back some years.
> 
> A ‘big political cover-up’ of 1980s pedophile-ring in U.K. Parliament?
> 
> This is also from July but - it's disturbing to read the occupations of some of the people arrested but it sounds like they are taking things seriously and trying to clean it up: National Crime Agency - UK-wide operation snares 660 suspected paedophiles
> 
> _An unprecedented six-month operation coordinated by the NCA and involving 45 police forces across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland has led to the arrest of 660 suspected paedophiles.
> More than 400 children across the UK have been safeguarded.
> Some of those arrested had unsupervised access to children in the course of their work. *They include doctors, teachers, scout leaders, care workers and former police officers.*_​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously disturbing.  How were they able to get away with this?  Does nobody care about these kids?  WTH?  Hearing about stuff like this, just makes me soooo angry.
Click to expand...





 Very simple the last government we had used legalities to silence the voices of dissent when they threatened parents with arrest for speaking out against the widespread abuse of girls as young as 11 and 12 by gangs of muslim men. They informed the police to make the threats under racism laws and to not investigate any of the claims or they themselves would be seen as racists. This went on for 14 years and actually increased as the government open the doors to a flood of immigrants in return for votes. The government had been infiltrated by neo Marxists who imposed political correctness across the country, much as the USA is, or was, in the grip of neo Marxists headed by Obama. It became a crime to report any serious crime committed by immigrants under the regime imposed on the people, and you faced arrest, trial and sentencing to prison if you did. So the decent people of the UK lived in fear of arrest for daring to report serious child abuse crimes. The same with the politicians who used their positions of power to hide their crimes and called on their old school friends and clubs to help hide the crimes. Many celebrities hid behind their fame and money, buying people off and making it look bad for the TV companies if they were investigated.


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## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> There's been a lot of scandal in the UK in regards to sexual crimes against children being covered up going back some years.
> 
> A ‘big political cover-up’ of 1980s pedophile-ring in U.K. Parliament?
> 
> This is also from July but - it's disturbing to read the occupations of some of the people arrested but it sounds like they are taking things seriously and trying to clean it up: National Crime Agency - UK-wide operation snares 660 suspected paedophiles
> 
> _An unprecedented six-month operation coordinated by the NCA and involving 45 police forces across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland has led to the arrest of 660 suspected paedophiles.
> More than 400 children across the UK have been safeguarded.
> Some of those arrested had unsupervised access to children in the course of their work. *They include doctors, teachers, scout leaders, care workers and former police officers.*_​





 And the vast majority of cases were committed by muslim men following the commands of their religion and using sex abuse as a form of RACISM and TERRORISM


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## anotherlife

ChrisL said:


> Seriously disturbing.  How were they able to get away with this?  Does nobody care about these kids?  WTH?  Hearing about stuff like this, just makes me soooo angry.


Angry?  Very interesting response.  So why is the death penalty not acceptable to you Britons then?


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## ChrisL

anotherlife said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously disturbing.  How were they able to get away with this?  Does nobody care about these kids?  WTH?  Hearing about stuff like this, just makes me soooo angry.
> 
> 
> 
> Angry?  Very interesting response.  So why is the death penalty not acceptable to you Britons then?
Click to expand...


I'm an American.  Besides, although I am angry, justice shouldn't be doled out based upon our emotions but upon the facts of the case.  I am an anti death penalty American because I don't think it's appropriate for government (at any level) have the power to kill citizens on a whim.  Besides, there have been many mistakes during many trials, which always leaves room for doubt.


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## ChrisL

Phoenall said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's been a lot of scandal in the UK in regards to sexual crimes against children being covered up going back some years.
> 
> A ‘big political cover-up’ of 1980s pedophile-ring in U.K. Parliament?
> 
> This is also from July but - it's disturbing to read the occupations of some of the people arrested but it sounds like they are taking things seriously and trying to clean it up: National Crime Agency - UK-wide operation snares 660 suspected paedophiles
> 
> _An unprecedented six-month operation coordinated by the NCA and involving 45 police forces across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland has led to the arrest of 660 suspected paedophiles.
> More than 400 children across the UK have been safeguarded.
> Some of those arrested had unsupervised access to children in the course of their work. *They include doctors, teachers, scout leaders, care workers and former police officers.*_​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously disturbing.  How were they able to get away with this?  Does nobody care about these kids?  WTH?  Hearing about stuff like this, just makes me soooo angry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very simple the last government we had used legalities to silence the voices of dissent when they threatened parents with arrest for speaking out against the widespread abuse of girls as young as 11 and 12 by gangs of muslim men. They informed the police to make the threats under racism laws and to not investigate any of the claims or they themselves would be seen as racists. This went on for 14 years and actually increased as the government open the doors to a flood of immigrants in return for votes. The government had been infiltrated by neo Marxists who imposed political correctness across the country, much as the USA is, or was, in the grip of neo Marxists headed by Obama. It became a crime to report any serious crime committed by immigrants under the regime imposed on the people, and you faced arrest, trial and sentencing to prison if you did. So the decent people of the UK lived in fear of arrest for daring to report serious child abuse crimes. The same with the politicians who used their positions of power to hide their crimes and called on their old school friends and clubs to help hide the crimes. Many celebrities hid behind their fame and money, buying people off and making it look bad for the TV companies if they were investigated.
Click to expand...


Well, that sounds disgusting, but I think I would need to see some kind of evidence that this is the reason.  I wouldn't be surprised if it was, but there could be other reasons why these things were being overlooked.  Incompetence comes to mind.


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## anotherlife

ChrisL said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously disturbing.  How were they able to get away with this?  Does nobody care about these kids?  WTH?  Hearing about stuff like this, just makes me soooo angry.
> 
> 
> 
> Angry?  Very interesting response.  So why is the death penalty not acceptable to you Britons then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm an American.  Besides, although I am angry, justice shouldn't be doled out based upon our emotions but upon the facts of the case.  I am an anti death penalty American because I don't think it's appropriate for government (at any level) have the power to kill citizens on a whim.  Besides, there have been many mistakes during many trials, which always leaves room for doubt.
Click to expand...


You have a beautiful avatar.  Do you deserve it?   

Many argue that prison is worse than a death penalty.  Plus even with judicial mistakes, prison years can't be undone.  They are not even financially compensated for those criminals that are exhonorated.  Why does then swapping prison for death make a difference?


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## Phoenall

anotherlife said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously disturbing.  How were they able to get away with this?  Does nobody care about these kids?  WTH?  Hearing about stuff like this, just makes me soooo angry.
> 
> 
> 
> Angry?  Very interesting response.  So why is the death penalty not acceptable to you Britons then?
Click to expand...




 Because the government went against the peoples wishes and banned it. Many people want to see it reinstated for certain crimes like child murder and terrorism.


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## Phoenall

ChrisL said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's been a lot of scandal in the UK in regards to sexual crimes against children being covered up going back some years.
> 
> A ‘big political cover-up’ of 1980s pedophile-ring in U.K. Parliament?
> 
> This is also from July but - it's disturbing to read the occupations of some of the people arrested but it sounds like they are taking things seriously and trying to clean it up: National Crime Agency - UK-wide operation snares 660 suspected paedophiles
> 
> _An unprecedented six-month operation coordinated by the NCA and involving 45 police forces across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland has led to the arrest of 660 suspected paedophiles.
> More than 400 children across the UK have been safeguarded.
> Some of those arrested had unsupervised access to children in the course of their work. *They include doctors, teachers, scout leaders, care workers and former police officers.*_​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously disturbing.  How were they able to get away with this?  Does nobody care about these kids?  WTH?  Hearing about stuff like this, just makes me soooo angry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very simple the last government we had used legalities to silence the voices of dissent when they threatened parents with arrest for speaking out against the widespread abuse of girls as young as 11 and 12 by gangs of muslim men. They informed the police to make the threats under racism laws and to not investigate any of the claims or they themselves would be seen as racists. This went on for 14 years and actually increased as the government open the doors to a flood of immigrants in return for votes. The government had been infiltrated by neo Marxists who imposed political correctness across the country, much as the USA is, or was, in the grip of neo Marxists headed by Obama. It became a crime to report any serious crime committed by immigrants under the regime imposed on the people, and you faced arrest, trial and sentencing to prison if you did. So the decent people of the UK lived in fear of arrest for daring to report serious child abuse crimes. The same with the politicians who used their positions of power to hide their crimes and called on their old school friends and clubs to help hide the crimes. Many celebrities hid behind their fame and money, buying people off and making it look bad for the TV companies if they were investigated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, that sounds disgusting, but I think I would need to see some kind of evidence that this is the reason.  I wouldn't be surprised if it was, but there could be other reasons why these things were being overlooked.  Incompetence comes to mind.
Click to expand...




 Here is just a taster of what went on

Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 The *Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal* refers to the existence of widespread child sexual abuse in the town of Rotherham, South Yorkshire, England, between 1997 and 2013, *and its subsequent cover-up.*


The Inquiry's initial report was published on 26 August 2014 and condemned the failure of the authorities in Rotherham to act effectively against the abuse and even, in some cases, to acknowledge that it was taking place.[2][4][5] It conservatively estimated that 1,400 children had been sexually abused in the town between 1997 and 2013, predominantly by gangs of British-Pakistani men. Abuses described by the report included abduction, rape, torture and sex trafficking of children.[5]

Members of the British-Pakistani community condemned both the sexual abuse and that it had been covered up for fear of "giving oxygen" to racism.[6] The leader of Rotherham Borough Council, Roger Stone, resigned, as did the council's Chief Executive, Martin Kimber, and the director of children's services, Joyce Thacker. Shaun Wright, the Police and Crime Commissioner (PCC) for South Yorkshire who had been a Labour councillor in charge of child safety at the council, stood down on 16 September, after initially refusing demands that he should do so.[7] The Home Secretary, Theresa May, blamed the failure of the authorities in Rotherham on "institutionalised political correctness",[8] and Denis MacShane, the former MP for Rotherham during the period covered by the report, admitted that he had been "guilty of doing too little" to investigate the extent of the sex crimes being committed in his constituency.[9]
Independent inquiries were set up into the actions of both South Yorkshire Police and Rotherham Borough Council, to examine their roles in investigating the allegations, and their procedures and practices.[10][11] Further allegations of a cover-up, including the theft of documents from a council researcher's office, were made in a Home Affairs Select Committee report in October 2014.[


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## ChrisL

Phoenall said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's been a lot of scandal in the UK in regards to sexual crimes against children being covered up going back some years.
> 
> A ‘big political cover-up’ of 1980s pedophile-ring in U.K. Parliament?
> 
> This is also from July but - it's disturbing to read the occupations of some of the people arrested but it sounds like they are taking things seriously and trying to clean it up: National Crime Agency - UK-wide operation snares 660 suspected paedophiles
> 
> _An unprecedented six-month operation coordinated by the NCA and involving 45 police forces across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland has led to the arrest of 660 suspected paedophiles.
> More than 400 children across the UK have been safeguarded.
> Some of those arrested had unsupervised access to children in the course of their work. *They include doctors, teachers, scout leaders, care workers and former police officers.*_​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously disturbing.  How were they able to get away with this?  Does nobody care about these kids?  WTH?  Hearing about stuff like this, just makes me soooo angry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very simple the last government we had used legalities to silence the voices of dissent when they threatened parents with arrest for speaking out against the widespread abuse of girls as young as 11 and 12 by gangs of muslim men. They informed the police to make the threats under racism laws and to not investigate any of the claims or they themselves would be seen as racists. This went on for 14 years and actually increased as the government open the doors to a flood of immigrants in return for votes. The government had been infiltrated by neo Marxists who imposed political correctness across the country, much as the USA is, or was, in the grip of neo Marxists headed by Obama. It became a crime to report any serious crime committed by immigrants under the regime imposed on the people, and you faced arrest, trial and sentencing to prison if you did. So the decent people of the UK lived in fear of arrest for daring to report serious child abuse crimes. The same with the politicians who used their positions of power to hide their crimes and called on their old school friends and clubs to help hide the crimes. Many celebrities hid behind their fame and money, buying people off and making it look bad for the TV companies if they were investigated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, that sounds disgusting, but I think I would need to see some kind of evidence that this is the reason.  I wouldn't be surprised if it was, but there could be other reasons why these things were being overlooked.  Incompetence comes to mind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is just a taster of what went on
> 
> Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> The *Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal* refers to the existence of widespread child sexual abuse in the town of Rotherham, South Yorkshire, England, between 1997 and 2013, *and its subsequent cover-up.*
> 
> 
> The Inquiry's initial report was published on 26 August 2014 and condemned the failure of the authorities in Rotherham to act effectively against the abuse and even, in some cases, to acknowledge that it was taking place.[2][4][5] It conservatively estimated that 1,400 children had been sexually abused in the town between 1997 and 2013, predominantly by gangs of British-Pakistani men. Abuses described by the report included abduction, rape, torture and sex trafficking of children.[5]
> 
> Members of the British-Pakistani community condemned both the sexual abuse and that it had been covered up for fear of "giving oxygen" to racism.[6] The leader of Rotherham Borough Council, Roger Stone, resigned, as did the council's Chief Executive, Martin Kimber, and the director of children's services, Joyce Thacker. Shaun Wright, the Police and Crime Commissioner (PCC) for South Yorkshire who had been a Labour councillor in charge of child safety at the council, stood down on 16 September, after initially refusing demands that he should do so.[7] The Home Secretary, Theresa May, blamed the failure of the authorities in Rotherham on "institutionalised political correctness",[8] and Denis MacShane, the former MP for Rotherham during the period covered by the report, admitted that he had been "guilty of doing too little" to investigate the extent of the sex crimes being committed in his constituency.[9]
> Independent inquiries were set up into the actions of both South Yorkshire Police and Rotherham Borough Council, to examine their roles in investigating the allegations, and their procedures and practices.[10][11] Further allegations of a cover-up, including the theft of documents from a council researcher's office, were made in a Home Affairs Select Committee report in October 2014.[
Click to expand...


This is just insane!  Has the world gone crazy for these Muslims effers, or what?


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## ChrisL

Phoenall said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously disturbing.  How were they able to get away with this?  Does nobody care about these kids?  WTH?  Hearing about stuff like this, just makes me soooo angry.
> 
> 
> 
> Angry?  Very interesting response.  So why is the death penalty not acceptable to you Britons then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the government went against the peoples wishes and banned it. Many people want to see it reinstated for certain crimes like child murder and terrorism.
Click to expand...


Well, I don't see why we can't just lock them up.  How does killing them make us any better?  If you murder, we're going to murder you?    Death penalty is disgusting, barbaric, primitive.


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## ChrisL

^^^

Yes, the Muslims just LOVE their death penalty too.


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## Phoenall

ChrisL said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's been a lot of scandal in the UK in regards to sexual crimes against children being covered up going back some years.
> 
> A ‘big political cover-up’ of 1980s pedophile-ring in U.K. Parliament?
> 
> This is also from July but - it's disturbing to read the occupations of some of the people arrested but it sounds like they are taking things seriously and trying to clean it up: National Crime Agency - UK-wide operation snares 660 suspected paedophiles
> 
> _An unprecedented six-month operation coordinated by the NCA and involving 45 police forces across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland has led to the arrest of 660 suspected paedophiles.
> More than 400 children across the UK have been safeguarded.
> Some of those arrested had unsupervised access to children in the course of their work. *They include doctors, teachers, scout leaders, care workers and former police officers.*_​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously disturbing.  How were they able to get away with this?  Does nobody care about these kids?  WTH?  Hearing about stuff like this, just makes me soooo angry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very simple the last government we had used legalities to silence the voices of dissent when they threatened parents with arrest for speaking out against the widespread abuse of girls as young as 11 and 12 by gangs of muslim men. They informed the police to make the threats under racism laws and to not investigate any of the claims or they themselves would be seen as racists. This went on for 14 years and actually increased as the government open the doors to a flood of immigrants in return for votes. The government had been infiltrated by neo Marxists who imposed political correctness across the country, much as the USA is, or was, in the grip of neo Marxists headed by Obama. It became a crime to report any serious crime committed by immigrants under the regime imposed on the people, and you faced arrest, trial and sentencing to prison if you did. So the decent people of the UK lived in fear of arrest for daring to report serious child abuse crimes. The same with the politicians who used their positions of power to hide their crimes and called on their old school friends and clubs to help hide the crimes. Many celebrities hid behind their fame and money, buying people off and making it look bad for the TV companies if they were investigated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, that sounds disgusting, but I think I would need to see some kind of evidence that this is the reason.  I wouldn't be surprised if it was, but there could be other reasons why these things were being overlooked.  Incompetence comes to mind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is just a taster of what went on
> 
> Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> The *Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal* refers to the existence of widespread child sexual abuse in the town of Rotherham, South Yorkshire, England, between 1997 and 2013, *and its subsequent cover-up.*
> 
> 
> The Inquiry's initial report was published on 26 August 2014 and condemned the failure of the authorities in Rotherham to act effectively against the abuse and even, in some cases, to acknowledge that it was taking place.[2][4][5] It conservatively estimated that 1,400 children had been sexually abused in the town between 1997 and 2013, predominantly by gangs of British-Pakistani men. Abuses described by the report included abduction, rape, torture and sex trafficking of children.[5]
> 
> Members of the British-Pakistani community condemned both the sexual abuse and that it had been covered up for fear of "giving oxygen" to racism.[6] The leader of Rotherham Borough Council, Roger Stone, resigned, as did the council's Chief Executive, Martin Kimber, and the director of children's services, Joyce Thacker. Shaun Wright, the Police and Crime Commissioner (PCC) for South Yorkshire who had been a Labour councillor in charge of child safety at the council, stood down on 16 September, after initially refusing demands that he should do so.[7] The Home Secretary, Theresa May, blamed the failure of the authorities in Rotherham on "institutionalised political correctness",[8] and Denis MacShane, the former MP for Rotherham during the period covered by the report, admitted that he had been "guilty of doing too little" to investigate the extent of the sex crimes being committed in his constituency.[9]
> Independent inquiries were set up into the actions of both South Yorkshire Police and Rotherham Borough Council, to examine their roles in investigating the allegations, and their procedures and practices.[10][11] Further allegations of a cover-up, including the theft of documents from a council researcher's office, were made in a Home Affairs Select Committee report in October 2014.[
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is just insane!  Has the world gone crazy for these Muslims effers, or what?
Click to expand...





 It was all allowed and condoned because the Labour party wanted to keep in power, the people spoke and they ended up with many questions that are still to be answered


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## Phoenall

ChrisL said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously disturbing.  How were they able to get away with this?  Does nobody care about these kids?  WTH?  Hearing about stuff like this, just makes me soooo angry.
> 
> 
> 
> Angry?  Very interesting response.  So why is the death penalty not acceptable to you Britons then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the government went against the peoples wishes and banned it. Many people want to see it reinstated for certain crimes like child murder and terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I don't see why we can't just lock them up.  How does killing them make us any better?  If you murder, we're going to murder you?    Death penalty is disgusting, barbaric, primitive.
Click to expand...




 Have you seen the costs involved in locking them up, in the UK it runs into £thousands per week to keep someone in prison. All this has to be found from tax revenues that could be spent elsewhere on more deserving causes. If we have to send them to prison lets make them work for the privilege by walking endlessly on a treadmill generating free electricity. Producing their own food from a prison farm and selling any surplus to cover any costs.


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## ChrisL

Phoenall said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously disturbing.  How were they able to get away with this?  Does nobody care about these kids?  WTH?  Hearing about stuff like this, just makes me soooo angry.
> 
> 
> 
> Angry?  Very interesting response.  So why is the death penalty not acceptable to you Britons then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the government went against the peoples wishes and banned it. Many people want to see it reinstated for certain crimes like child murder and terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I don't see why we can't just lock them up.  How does killing them make us any better?  If you murder, we're going to murder you?    Death penalty is disgusting, barbaric, primitive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you seen the costs involved in locking them up, in the UK it runs into £thousands per week to keep someone in prison. All this has to be found from tax revenues that could be spent elsewhere on more deserving causes. If we have to send them to prison lets make them work for the privilege by walking endlessly on a treadmill generating free electricity. Producing their own food from a prison farm and selling any surplus to cover any costs.
Click to expand...


I'm an American and have no say in what happens in the UK.  However, personally, I don't have a problem with making prisoners work.  Bring back the chain gangs!


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## Vikrant

Coyote said:


> There's been a lot of scandal in the UK in regards to sexual crimes against children being covered up going back some years.
> 
> A ‘big political cover-up’ of 1980s pedophile-ring in U.K. Parliament?
> 
> This is also from July but - it's disturbing to read the occupations of some of the people arrested but it sounds like they are taking things seriously and trying to clean it up: National Crime Agency - UK-wide operation snares 660 suspected paedophiles
> 
> _An unprecedented six-month operation coordinated by the NCA and involving 45 police forces across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland has led to the arrest of 660 suspected paedophiles.
> More than 400 children across the UK have been safeguarded.
> Some of those arrested had unsupervised access to children in the course of their work. *They include doctors, teachers, scout leaders, care workers and former police officers.*_​



In my other thread about Pakistani men raping 1400 girls, I consistently maintained that authorities were involved in it. But most people who engaged in the discussion on that thread just latched on to one aspect of the culprits - their Pakistani/Muslim origin. They kept maintaining that this happened because UK society is too PC. This line of argument never made any sense to me because British society although is a great society, it still does have great deal of racism that it needs to overcome. Now there are new reports coming out which indicate that high level UK politicians were involved in child prostitution rings, which proves my initial line of argument that I consistently made in my other thread.


----------



## Vikrant

anotherlife said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously disturbing.  How were they able to get away with this?  Does nobody care about these kids?  WTH?  Hearing about stuff like this, just makes me soooo angry.
> 
> 
> 
> Angry?  Very interesting response.  So why is the death penalty not acceptable to you Britons then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm an American.  Besides, although I am angry, justice shouldn't be doled out based upon our emotions but upon the facts of the case.  I am an anti death penalty American because I don't think it's appropriate for government (at any level) have the power to kill citizens on a whim.  Besides, there have been many mistakes during many trials, which always leaves room for doubt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have a beautiful avatar.  Do you deserve it?
> 
> Many argue that prison is worse than a death penalty.  Plus even with judicial mistakes, prison years can't be undone.  They are not even financially compensated for those criminals that are exhonorated.  Why does then swapping prison for death make a difference?
Click to expand...


She absolutely deserves her beautiful avatar.


----------



## HenryBHough

If goats had the cash to pay a lawyer they'd have protective orders too.


----------



## ChrisL

Vikrant said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's been a lot of scandal in the UK in regards to sexual crimes against children being covered up going back some years.
> 
> A ‘big political cover-up’ of 1980s pedophile-ring in U.K. Parliament?
> 
> This is also from July but - it's disturbing to read the occupations of some of the people arrested but it sounds like they are taking things seriously and trying to clean it up: National Crime Agency - UK-wide operation snares 660 suspected paedophiles
> 
> _An unprecedented six-month operation coordinated by the NCA and involving 45 police forces across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland has led to the arrest of 660 suspected paedophiles.
> More than 400 children across the UK have been safeguarded.
> Some of those arrested had unsupervised access to children in the course of their work. *They include doctors, teachers, scout leaders, care workers and former police officers.*_​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my other thread about Pakistani men raping 1400 girls, I consistently maintained that authorities were involved in it. But most people who engaged in the discussion on that thread just latched on to one aspect of the culprits - their Pakistani/Muslim origin. They kept maintaining that this happened because UK society is too PC. This line of argument never made any sense to me because British society although is a great society, it still does have great deal of racism that it needs to overcome. Now there are new reports coming out which indicate that high level UK politicians were involved in child prostitution rings, which proves my initial line of argument that I consistently made in my other thread.
Click to expand...


Well I agree that there are pedophiles of all origins, but having sex with children is an acceptable practice in a lot of predominantly Muslim cultures.

This is what I meant when I spoke of culture clash.  Something that is a crime in America or the UK, can be a perfectly acceptable practice in another culture.  They don't think there is anything wrong with bedding down with a 12-year-old child.


----------



## Vikrant

ChrisL said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's been a lot of scandal in the UK in regards to sexual crimes against children being covered up going back some years.
> 
> A ‘big political cover-up’ of 1980s pedophile-ring in U.K. Parliament?
> 
> This is also from July but - it's disturbing to read the occupations of some of the people arrested but it sounds like they are taking things seriously and trying to clean it up: National Crime Agency - UK-wide operation snares 660 suspected paedophiles
> 
> _An unprecedented six-month operation coordinated by the NCA and involving 45 police forces across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland has led to the arrest of 660 suspected paedophiles.
> More than 400 children across the UK have been safeguarded.
> Some of those arrested had unsupervised access to children in the course of their work. *They include doctors, teachers, scout leaders, care workers and former police officers.*_​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my other thread about Pakistani men raping 1400 girls, I consistently maintained that authorities were involved in it. But most people who engaged in the discussion on that thread just latched on to one aspect of the culprits - their Pakistani/Muslim origin. They kept maintaining that this happened because UK society is too PC. This line of argument never made any sense to me because British society although is a great society, it still does have great deal of racism that it needs to overcome. Now there are new reports coming out which indicate that high level UK politicians were involved in child prostitution rings, which proves my initial line of argument that I consistently made in my other thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I agree that there are pedophiles of all origins, but having sex with children is an acceptable practice in a lot of predominantly Muslim cultures.
> 
> This is what I meant when I spoke of culture clash.  Something that is a crime in America or the UK, can be a perfectly acceptable practice in another culture.  They don't think there is anything wrong with bedding down with a 12-year-old child.
Click to expand...


I personally think you made great posts in that thread. 

Reality of prostitution of young girls in UK is that a good number of men who coerce these young girls into prostitution are indeed Pakistani/Muslims. Even the OP in this thread talks about a case involving Muslim (Pakistani?) men. I am not denying that. But there are other facilitators as well who seemed to have escaped the wrath. These facilitators include powerful members of UK elites, police officers, civil officers, teachers, etc. Exploitation of young girls in UK would not have been possible without this group. They provided protection, customer base and overall lifeline for the prostitution operations. And, this is what I am trying to emphasize.


----------



## anotherlife

ChrisL said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously disturbing.  How were they able to get away with this?  Does nobody care about these kids?  WTH?  Hearing about stuff like this, just makes me soooo angry.
> 
> 
> 
> Angry?  Very interesting response.  So why is the death penalty not acceptable to you Britons then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the government went against the peoples wishes and banned it. Many people want to see it reinstated for certain crimes like child murder and terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I don't see why we can't just lock them up.  How does killing them make us any better?  If you murder, we're going to murder you?    Death penalty is disgusting, barbaric, primitive.
Click to expand...

But why shall we obligate ourselves to feeding them?  I would not mind cryogenically freezing them for the duration of their sentences, but that is prohibited too why? 



ChrisL said:


> ^^^
> 
> Yes, the Muslims just LOVE their death penalty too.


In sharia law, the punishment for murder is not execution.  It is a negotiation of a payment plan to compensate the family of the victim. 



Phoenall said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously disturbing.  How were they able to get away with this?  Does nobody care about these kids?  WTH?  Hearing about stuff like this, just makes me soooo angry.
> 
> 
> 
> Angry?  Very interesting response.  So why is the death penalty not acceptable to you Britons then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the government went against the peoples wishes and banned it. Many people want to see it reinstated for certain crimes like child murder and terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I don't see why we can't just lock them up.  How does killing them make us any better?  If you murder, we're going to murder you?    Death penalty is disgusting, barbaric, primitive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you seen the costs involved in locking them up, in the UK it runs into £thousands per week to keep someone in prison. All this has to be found from tax revenues that could be spent elsewhere on more deserving causes. If we have to send them to prison lets make them work for the privilege by walking endlessly on a treadmill generating free electricity. Producing their own food from a prison farm and selling any surplus to cover any costs.
Click to expand...


For physical facts, they would not be able to generate even as little as 10% of their cell heating needs.  How about freezing them, but without slowing their metabolism so that they don't wake up at the end of their sentences like they are the same age as  entering.


----------



## ChrisL

anotherlife said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously disturbing.  How were they able to get away with this?  Does nobody care about these kids?  WTH?  Hearing about stuff like this, just makes me soooo angry.
> 
> 
> 
> Angry?  Very interesting response.  So why is the death penalty not acceptable to you Britons then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the government went against the peoples wishes and banned it. Many people want to see it reinstated for certain crimes like child murder and terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I don't see why we can't just lock them up.  How does killing them make us any better?  If you murder, we're going to murder you?    Death penalty is disgusting, barbaric, primitive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But why shall we obligate ourselves to feeding them?  I would not mind cryogenically freezing them for the duration of their sentences, but that is prohibited too why?
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^
> 
> Yes, the Muslims just LOVE their death penalty too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In sharia law, the punishment for murder is not execution.  It is a negotiation of a payment plan to compensate the family of the victim.
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously disturbing.  How were they able to get away with this?  Does nobody care about these kids?  WTH?  Hearing about stuff like this, just makes me soooo angry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Angry?  Very interesting response.  So why is the death penalty not acceptable to you Britons then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the government went against the peoples wishes and banned it. Many people want to see it reinstated for certain crimes like child murder and terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I don't see why we can't just lock them up.  How does killing them make us any better?  If you murder, we're going to murder you?    Death penalty is disgusting, barbaric, primitive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you seen the costs involved in locking them up, in the UK it runs into £thousands per week to keep someone in prison. All this has to be found from tax revenues that could be spent elsewhere on more deserving causes. If we have to send them to prison lets make them work for the privilege by walking endlessly on a treadmill generating free electricity. Producing their own food from a prison farm and selling any surplus to cover any costs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For physical facts, they would not be able to generate even as little as 10% of their cell heating needs.  How about freezing them, but without slowing their metabolism so that they don't wake up at the end of their sentences like they are the same age as  entering.
Click to expand...


The death penalty is more expensive than to keep a prisoner in jail for life!  That is because of the automatic appeals process, and THAT is to protect us citizens against the government, if they are going to put us to death for crimes.  

Good Lord!  That is not true at all.  Look at ALL the countries that are run by Sharia, and the death penalty is applied plenty of times for relatively small offenses, like adultery, being a homosexual, etc.


----------



## ChrisL

Vikrant said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's been a lot of scandal in the UK in regards to sexual crimes against children being covered up going back some years.
> 
> A ‘big political cover-up’ of 1980s pedophile-ring in U.K. Parliament?
> 
> This is also from July but - it's disturbing to read the occupations of some of the people arrested but it sounds like they are taking things seriously and trying to clean it up: National Crime Agency - UK-wide operation snares 660 suspected paedophiles
> 
> _An unprecedented six-month operation coordinated by the NCA and involving 45 police forces across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland has led to the arrest of 660 suspected paedophiles.
> More than 400 children across the UK have been safeguarded.
> Some of those arrested had unsupervised access to children in the course of their work. *They include doctors, teachers, scout leaders, care workers and former police officers.*_​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my other thread about Pakistani men raping 1400 girls, I consistently maintained that authorities were involved in it. But most people who engaged in the discussion on that thread just latched on to one aspect of the culprits - their Pakistani/Muslim origin. They kept maintaining that this happened because UK society is too PC. This line of argument never made any sense to me because British society although is a great society, it still does have great deal of racism that it needs to overcome. Now there are new reports coming out which indicate that high level UK politicians were involved in child prostitution rings, which proves my initial line of argument that I consistently made in my other thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I agree that there are pedophiles of all origins, but having sex with children is an acceptable practice in a lot of predominantly Muslim cultures.
> 
> This is what I meant when I spoke of culture clash.  Something that is a crime in America or the UK, can be a perfectly acceptable practice in another culture.  They don't think there is anything wrong with bedding down with a 12-year-old child.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I personally think you made great posts in that thread.
> 
> Reality of prostitution of young girls in UK is that a good number of men who coerce these young girls into prostitution are indeed Pakistani/Muslims. Even the OP in this thread talks about a case involving Muslim (Pakistani?) men. I am not denying that. But there are other facilitators as well who seemed to have escaped the wrath. These facilitators include powerful members of UK elites, police officers, civil officers, teachers, etc. Exploitation of young girls in UK would not have been possible without this group. They provided protection, customer base and overall lifeline for the prostitution operations. And, this is what I am trying to emphasize.
Click to expand...


Oh, I definitely agree that those people that were allegedly in charge at the time that these crimes occurred should be charged with something too.


----------



## Vikrant

ChrisL said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's been a lot of scandal in the UK in regards to sexual crimes against children being covered up going back some years.
> 
> A ‘big political cover-up’ of 1980s pedophile-ring in U.K. Parliament?
> 
> This is also from July but - it's disturbing to read the occupations of some of the people arrested but it sounds like they are taking things seriously and trying to clean it up: National Crime Agency - UK-wide operation snares 660 suspected paedophiles
> 
> _An unprecedented six-month operation coordinated by the NCA and involving 45 police forces across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland has led to the arrest of 660 suspected paedophiles.
> More than 400 children across the UK have been safeguarded.
> Some of those arrested had unsupervised access to children in the course of their work. *They include doctors, teachers, scout leaders, care workers and former police officers.*_​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my other thread about Pakistani men raping 1400 girls, I consistently maintained that authorities were involved in it. But most people who engaged in the discussion on that thread just latched on to one aspect of the culprits - their Pakistani/Muslim origin. They kept maintaining that this happened because UK society is too PC. This line of argument never made any sense to me because British society although is a great society, it still does have great deal of racism that it needs to overcome. Now there are new reports coming out which indicate that high level UK politicians were involved in child prostitution rings, which proves my initial line of argument that I consistently made in my other thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I agree that there are pedophiles of all origins, but having sex with children is an acceptable practice in a lot of predominantly Muslim cultures.
> 
> This is what I meant when I spoke of culture clash.  Something that is a crime in America or the UK, can be a perfectly acceptable practice in another culture.  They don't think there is anything wrong with bedding down with a 12-year-old child.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I personally think you made great posts in that thread.
> 
> Reality of prostitution of young girls in UK is that a good number of men who coerce these young girls into prostitution are indeed Pakistani/Muslims. Even the OP in this thread talks about a case involving Muslim (Pakistani?) men. I am not denying that. But there are other facilitators as well who seemed to have escaped the wrath. These facilitators include powerful members of UK elites, police officers, civil officers, teachers, etc. Exploitation of young girls in UK would not have been possible without this group. They provided protection, customer base and overall lifeline for the prostitution operations. And, this is what I am trying to emphasize.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, I definitely agree that those people that were allegedly in charge at the time that these crimes occurred should be charged with something too.
Click to expand...


d'accord . mon bel ange.


----------



## Phoenall

Vikrant said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's been a lot of scandal in the UK in regards to sexual crimes against children being covered up going back some years.
> 
> A ‘big political cover-up’ of 1980s pedophile-ring in U.K. Parliament?
> 
> This is also from July but - it's disturbing to read the occupations of some of the people arrested but it sounds like they are taking things seriously and trying to clean it up: National Crime Agency - UK-wide operation snares 660 suspected paedophiles
> 
> _An unprecedented six-month operation coordinated by the NCA and involving 45 police forces across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland has led to the arrest of 660 suspected paedophiles.
> More than 400 children across the UK have been safeguarded.
> Some of those arrested had unsupervised access to children in the course of their work. *They include doctors, teachers, scout leaders, care workers and former police officers.*_​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my other thread about Pakistani men raping 1400 girls, I consistently maintained that authorities were involved in it. But most people who engaged in the discussion on that thread just latched on to one aspect of the culprits - their Pakistani/Muslim origin. They kept maintaining that this happened because UK society is too PC. This line of argument never made any sense to me because British society although is a great society, it still does have great deal of racism that it needs to overcome. Now there are new reports coming out which indicate that high level UK politicians were involved in child prostitution rings, which proves my initial line of argument that I consistently made in my other thread.
Click to expand...





 If you had read the news reports regarding the trials of the Pakistani muslim men you would have seen the same thing being brought up every time, the racist overtones of the rapes and abuse of these girls. Then the offenders made claims that they were only arrested because the police were racist, even though the girls had made numerous complaints. Not once did the men deny the rapes or prostitution, they just claim their arrests were racist.
 For the record the 1400 cases were from just one medium sized town, when all the other towns and cities are taken into consideration the numbers of girls raped comes to many tens of thousands, and still more cases are being brought against more Pakistani men. Yes it is not just confined to one race or one religion, it is across all races and all religions. But the facts are that the most prevalent child abusers in the UK happen to be Pakistani muslim men. The reports of high level politicians are old news as many knew about them 25 years ago when the Americans operated a sting and caught many cabinet ministers and front benchers buying hard core child porn. It was shown a couple of years back that the most users of child porn sites were muslims, and many were run by muslims who produced their own stock. All this as a front for their terrorist activities and training


----------



## Coyote

Vikrant said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's been a lot of scandal in the UK in regards to sexual crimes against children being covered up going back some years.
> 
> A ‘big political cover-up’ of 1980s pedophile-ring in U.K. Parliament?
> 
> This is also from July but - it's disturbing to read the occupations of some of the people arrested but it sounds like they are taking things seriously and trying to clean it up: National Crime Agency - UK-wide operation snares 660 suspected paedophiles
> 
> _An unprecedented six-month operation coordinated by the NCA and involving 45 police forces across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland has led to the arrest of 660 suspected paedophiles.
> More than 400 children across the UK have been safeguarded.
> Some of those arrested had unsupervised access to children in the course of their work. *They include doctors, teachers, scout leaders, care workers and former police officers.*_​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my other thread about Pakistani men raping 1400 girls, I consistently maintained that authorities were involved in it. But most people who engaged in the discussion on that thread just latched on to one aspect of the culprits - their Pakistani/Muslim origin. They kept maintaining that this happened because UK society is too PC. This line of argument never made any sense to me because British society although is a great society, it still does have great deal of racism that it needs to overcome. *Now there are new reports coming out which indicate that high level UK politicians were involved in child prostitution rings, *which proves my initial line of argument that I consistently made in my other thread.
Click to expand...


That is really disturbing.  When politicians and police are involved - and it gets covered up for years - very bad.

I agree - the PC part is a red herring imo, because everyone wants to focus on the Muslim aspect and ignore the rest of it - that this is a very deep seated problem, that has little to do with Muslims per se but rather issues of criminality and corruption that go very high and are well protected and have been for years apparently.


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's been a lot of scandal in the UK in regards to sexual crimes against children being covered up going back some years.
> 
> A ‘big political cover-up’ of 1980s pedophile-ring in U.K. Parliament?
> 
> This is also from July but - it's disturbing to read the occupations of some of the people arrested but it sounds like they are taking things seriously and trying to clean it up: National Crime Agency - UK-wide operation snares 660 suspected paedophiles
> 
> _An unprecedented six-month operation coordinated by the NCA and involving 45 police forces across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland has led to the arrest of 660 suspected paedophiles.
> More than 400 children across the UK have been safeguarded.
> Some of those arrested had unsupervised access to children in the course of their work. *They include doctors, teachers, scout leaders, care workers and former police officers.*_​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *And the vast majority of cases were committed by muslim men *following the commands of their religion and using sex abuse as a form of RACISM and TERRORISM
Click to expand...


That was debunked in another thread.


----------



## ChrisL

anotherlife said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously disturbing.  How were they able to get away with this?  Does nobody care about these kids?  WTH?  Hearing about stuff like this, just makes me soooo angry.
> 
> 
> 
> Angry?  Very interesting response.  So why is the death penalty not acceptable to you Britons then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm an American.  Besides, although I am angry, justice shouldn't be doled out based upon our emotions but upon the facts of the case.  I am an anti death penalty American because I don't think it's appropriate for government (at any level) have the power to kill citizens on a whim.  Besides, there have been many mistakes during many trials, which always leaves room for doubt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have a beautiful avatar.  Do you deserve it?
> 
> Many argue that prison is worse than a death penalty.  Plus even with judicial mistakes, prison years can't be undone.  They are not even financially compensated for those criminals that are exhonorated.  Why does then swapping prison for death make a difference?
Click to expand...


My  aversion to the death penalty has absolutely nothing to do with the "comfort" of the prisoners.


----------



## Coyote

anotherlife said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously disturbing.  How were they able to get away with this?  Does nobody care about these kids?  WTH?  Hearing about stuff like this, just makes me soooo angry.
> 
> 
> 
> Angry?  Very interesting response.  So why is the death penalty not acceptable to you Britons then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm an American.  Besides, although I am angry, justice shouldn't be doled out based upon our emotions but upon the facts of the case.  I am an anti death penalty American because I don't think it's appropriate for government (at any level) have the power to kill citizens on a whim.  Besides, there have been many mistakes during many trials, which always leaves room for doubt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have a beautiful avatar.  Do you deserve it?
> 
> Many argue that prison is worse than a death penalty.  Plus even with judicial mistakes, prison years can't be undone.  They are not even financially compensated for those criminals that are exhonorated.  Why does then swapping prison for death make a difference?
Click to expand...


Prison years can't be undone...but a life taken can never be returned.  Ask the prisoners what they would prefer, I think most would say life.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's been a lot of scandal in the UK in regards to sexual crimes against children being covered up going back some years.
> 
> A ‘big political cover-up’ of 1980s pedophile-ring in U.K. Parliament?
> 
> This is also from July but - it's disturbing to read the occupations of some of the people arrested but it sounds like they are taking things seriously and trying to clean it up: National Crime Agency - UK-wide operation snares 660 suspected paedophiles
> 
> _An unprecedented six-month operation coordinated by the NCA and involving 45 police forces across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland has led to the arrest of 660 suspected paedophiles.
> More than 400 children across the UK have been safeguarded.
> Some of those arrested had unsupervised access to children in the course of their work. *They include doctors, teachers, scout leaders, care workers and former police officers.*_​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my other thread about Pakistani men raping 1400 girls, I consistently maintained that authorities were involved in it. But most people who engaged in the discussion on that thread just latched on to one aspect of the culprits - their Pakistani/Muslim origin. They kept maintaining that this happened because UK society is too PC. This line of argument never made any sense to me because British society although is a great society, it still does have great deal of racism that it needs to overcome. Now there are new reports coming out which indicate that high level UK politicians were involved in child prostitution rings, which proves my initial line of argument that I consistently made in my other thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I agree that there are pedophiles of all origins, but having sex with children is an acceptable practice in a lot of predominantly Muslim cultures.
> 
> This is what I meant when I spoke of culture clash.  Something that is a crime in America or the UK, can be a perfectly acceptable practice in another culture.  They don't think there is anything wrong with bedding down with a 12-year-old child.
Click to expand...


Sex with children is not exactly widely acceptable.  In many parts of the world - Muslim and NON-Muslim, girls are married at 12, which is also considered puberty.  It's driven by poverty, culture, the idea that girls have little value (and it's not worth educating them) - even, in war torn areas - marrying them young to save them from rape. Not too long ago, when a supposed child bride was killed in Yemen - huge numbers of people protested child marriages, demonstrated against the government for laws preventing this and for enforcement of existing laws.  It ended up being a hoax but it drove action.

It's a complex problem.


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's been a lot of scandal in the UK in regards to sexual crimes against children being covered up going back some years.
> 
> A ‘big political cover-up’ of 1980s pedophile-ring in U.K. Parliament?
> 
> This is also from July but - it's disturbing to read the occupations of some of the people arrested but it sounds like they are taking things seriously and trying to clean it up: National Crime Agency - UK-wide operation snares 660 suspected paedophiles
> 
> _An unprecedented six-month operation coordinated by the NCA and involving 45 police forces across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland has led to the arrest of 660 suspected paedophiles.
> More than 400 children across the UK have been safeguarded.
> Some of those arrested had unsupervised access to children in the course of their work. *They include doctors, teachers, scout leaders, care workers and former police officers.*_​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my other thread about Pakistani men raping 1400 girls, I consistently maintained that authorities were involved in it. But most people who engaged in the discussion on that thread just latched on to one aspect of the culprits - their Pakistani/Muslim origin. They kept maintaining that this happened because UK society is too PC. This line of argument never made any sense to me because British society although is a great society, it still does have great deal of racism that it needs to overcome. Now there are new reports coming out which indicate that high level UK politicians were involved in child prostitution rings, which proves my initial line of argument that I consistently made in my other thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I agree that there are pedophiles of all origins, but having sex with children is an acceptable practice in a lot of predominantly Muslim cultures.
> 
> This is what I meant when I spoke of culture clash.  Something that is a crime in America or the UK, can be a perfectly acceptable practice in another culture.  They don't think there is anything wrong with bedding down with a 12-year-old child.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


This quote is kind of messed up.  I'm not sure which of these quotes you were addressing to me, or if you were meaning to address me at all.


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously disturbing.  How were they able to get away with this?  Does nobody care about these kids?  WTH?  Hearing about stuff like this, just makes me soooo angry.
> 
> 
> 
> Angry?  Very interesting response.  So why is the death penalty not acceptable to you Britons then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm an American.  Besides, although I am angry, justice shouldn't be doled out based upon our emotions but upon the facts of the case.  I am an anti death penalty American because I don't think it's appropriate for government (at any level) have the power to kill citizens on a whim.  Besides, there have been many mistakes during many trials, which always leaves room for doubt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have a beautiful avatar.  Do you deserve it?
> 
> Many argue that prison is worse than a death penalty.  Plus even with judicial mistakes, prison years can't be undone.  They are not even financially compensated for those criminals that are exhonorated.  Why does then swapping prison for death make a difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Prison years can't be undone...but a life taken can never be returned.  Ask the prisoners what they would prefer, I think most would say life.
Click to expand...


There was a case in a neighboring state to mine where a police officer was convicted of killing his mistress.  Well, come to find out, years and years later, he was innocent.  

Scott Hornoff New England Innocence Project


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously disturbing.  How were they able to get away with this?  Does nobody care about these kids?  WTH?  Hearing about stuff like this, just makes me soooo angry.
> 
> 
> 
> Angry?  Very interesting response.  So why is the death penalty not acceptable to you Britons then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm an American.  Besides, although I am angry, justice shouldn't be doled out based upon our emotions but upon the facts of the case.  I am an anti death penalty American because I don't think it's appropriate for government (at any level) have the power to kill citizens on a whim.  Besides, there have been many mistakes during many trials, which always leaves room for doubt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have a beautiful avatar.  Do you deserve it?
> 
> Many argue that prison is worse than a death penalty.  Plus even with judicial mistakes, prison years can't be undone.  They are not even financially compensated for those criminals that are exhonorated.  Why does then swapping prison for death make a difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Prison years can't be undone...but a life taken can never be returned.  Ask the prisoners what they would prefer, I think most would say life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was a case in a neighboring state to mine where a police officer was convicted of killing his mistress.  Well, come to find out, years and years later, he was innocent.
> 
> Scott Hornoff New England Innocence Project
Click to expand...


There are way too many cases like that, and more and more keep coming to light.  I oppose the death penalty because of it's innate injustice and inequality.  If you're rich, have a good lawyer, white, you will get jail time over the death penalty.  If you are a black male and the victim is a white female - you are more likely to get the death penalty than vice versa. Even eye witness's have been proven to be inaccurate.  If the defendent is poor, he is far less likely to be able to get a good defense.  There is just so much wrong with the system.  It's brutal.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's been a lot of scandal in the UK in regards to sexual crimes against children being covered up going back some years.
> 
> A ‘big political cover-up’ of 1980s pedophile-ring in U.K. Parliament?
> 
> This is also from July but - it's disturbing to read the occupations of some of the people arrested but it sounds like they are taking things seriously and trying to clean it up: National Crime Agency - UK-wide operation snares 660 suspected paedophiles
> 
> _An unprecedented six-month operation coordinated by the NCA and involving 45 police forces across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland has led to the arrest of 660 suspected paedophiles.
> More than 400 children across the UK have been safeguarded.
> Some of those arrested had unsupervised access to children in the course of their work. *They include doctors, teachers, scout leaders, care workers and former police officers.*_​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my other thread about Pakistani men raping 1400 girls, I consistently maintained that authorities were involved in it. But most people who engaged in the discussion on that thread just latched on to one aspect of the culprits - their Pakistani/Muslim origin. They kept maintaining that this happened because UK society is too PC. This line of argument never made any sense to me because British society although is a great society, it still does have great deal of racism that it needs to overcome. Now there are new reports coming out which indicate that high level UK politicians were involved in child prostitution rings, which proves my initial line of argument that I consistently made in my other thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I agree that there are pedophiles of all origins, but having sex with children is an acceptable practice in a lot of predominantly Muslim cultures.
> 
> This is what I meant when I spoke of culture clash.  Something that is a crime in America or the UK, can be a perfectly acceptable practice in another culture.  They don't think there is anything wrong with bedding down with a 12-year-old child.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This quote is kind of messed up.  I'm not sure which of these quotes you were addressing to me, or if you were meaning to address me at all.
Click to expand...


I'm having frustrating software problems with quotes and replies


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's been a lot of scandal in the UK in regards to sexual crimes against children being covered up going back some years.
> 
> A ‘big political cover-up’ of 1980s pedophile-ring in U.K. Parliament?
> 
> This is also from July but - it's disturbing to read the occupations of some of the people arrested but it sounds like they are taking things seriously and trying to clean it up: National Crime Agency - UK-wide operation snares 660 suspected paedophiles
> 
> _An unprecedented six-month operation coordinated by the NCA and involving 45 police forces across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland has led to the arrest of 660 suspected paedophiles.
> More than 400 children across the UK have been safeguarded.
> Some of those arrested had unsupervised access to children in the course of their work. *They include doctors, teachers, scout leaders, care workers and former police officers.*_​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my other thread about Pakistani men raping 1400 girls, I consistently maintained that authorities were involved in it. But most people who engaged in the discussion on that thread just latched on to one aspect of the culprits - their Pakistani/Muslim origin. They kept maintaining that this happened because UK society is too PC. This line of argument never made any sense to me because British society although is a great society, it still does have great deal of racism that it needs to overcome. Now there are new reports coming out which indicate that high level UK politicians were involved in child prostitution rings, which proves my initial line of argument that I consistently made in my other thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I agree that there are pedophiles of all origins, but having sex with children is an acceptable practice in a lot of predominantly Muslim cultures.
> 
> This is what I meant when I spoke of culture clash.  Something that is a crime in America or the UK, can be a perfectly acceptable practice in another culture.  They don't think there is anything wrong with bedding down with a 12-year-old child.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sex with children is not exactly widely acceptable.  In many parts of the world - Muslim and NON-Muslim, girls are married at 12, which is also considered puberty.  It's driven by poverty, culture, the idea that girls have little value (and it's not worth educating them) - even, in war torn areas - marrying them young to save them from rape. Not too long ago, when a supposed child bride was killed in Yemen - huge numbers of people protested child marriages, demonstrated against the government for laws preventing this and for enforcement of existing laws.  It ended up being a hoax but it drove action.
> 
> It's a complex problem.
Click to expand...


I googled the Yemeni child bride and do not see where it was ever exposed as a hoax.  

Oh, there have been other young girls who have died on the wedding nights due to internal bleeding.  I know you're going to find other excuses, but I'm sorry, but this religion is awful and yes, it condones these types of actions against women.  It's a very horrible and oppressive religion towards women and girls.  

Child marriage - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Most religions, over history, influenced the marriageable age. For example, Christian ecclesiastical law forbade marriage of a girl before the age of puberty.[24] Hindu vedic scriptures mandated the age of a girl's marriage to be adulthood which they defined as three years after the onset of puberty.[25] Jewish scholars and rabbis strongly discouraged marriages before the onset of puberty.[23] In contrast, some Islamic marriage practices have permitted marriage of girls below the age of 10, because Shariat law is based in part on the life and practices of Muhammad, the Prophet, as described in part in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim. The Prophet married Aisha, his third wife, when she was about age six,[26] and consummated the marriage when she was about age nine.[27][28]

Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

—Sahih al-Bukhari, 7:62:64


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's been a lot of scandal in the UK in regards to sexual crimes against children being covered up going back some years.
> 
> A ‘big political cover-up’ of 1980s pedophile-ring in U.K. Parliament?
> 
> This is also from July but - it's disturbing to read the occupations of some of the people arrested but it sounds like they are taking things seriously and trying to clean it up: National Crime Agency - UK-wide operation snares 660 suspected paedophiles
> 
> _An unprecedented six-month operation coordinated by the NCA and involving 45 police forces across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland has led to the arrest of 660 suspected paedophiles.
> More than 400 children across the UK have been safeguarded.
> Some of those arrested had unsupervised access to children in the course of their work. *They include doctors, teachers, scout leaders, care workers and former police officers.*_​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my other thread about Pakistani men raping 1400 girls, I consistently maintained that authorities were involved in it. But most people who engaged in the discussion on that thread just latched on to one aspect of the culprits - their Pakistani/Muslim origin. They kept maintaining that this happened because UK society is too PC. This line of argument never made any sense to me because British society although is a great society, it still does have great deal of racism that it needs to overcome. Now there are new reports coming out which indicate that high level UK politicians were involved in child prostitution rings, which proves my initial line of argument that I consistently made in my other thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I agree that there are pedophiles of all origins, but having sex with children is an acceptable practice in a lot of predominantly Muslim cultures.
> 
> This is what I meant when I spoke of culture clash.  Something that is a crime in America or the UK, can be a perfectly acceptable practice in another culture.  They don't think there is anything wrong with bedding down with a 12-year-old child.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This quote is kind of messed up.  I'm not sure which of these quotes you were addressing to me, or if you were meaning to address me at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm having frustrating software problems with quotes and replies
Click to expand...


I know how annoying that can be.  Grrr.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's been a lot of scandal in the UK in regards to sexual crimes against children being covered up going back some years.
> 
> A ‘big political cover-up’ of 1980s pedophile-ring in U.K. Parliament?
> 
> This is also from July but - it's disturbing to read the occupations of some of the people arrested but it sounds like they are taking things seriously and trying to clean it up: National Crime Agency - UK-wide operation snares 660 suspected paedophiles
> 
> _An unprecedented six-month operation coordinated by the NCA and involving 45 police forces across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland has led to the arrest of 660 suspected paedophiles.
> More than 400 children across the UK have been safeguarded.
> Some of those arrested had unsupervised access to children in the course of their work. *They include doctors, teachers, scout leaders, care workers and former police officers.*_​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my other thread about Pakistani men raping 1400 girls, I consistently maintained that authorities were involved in it. But most people who engaged in the discussion on that thread just latched on to one aspect of the culprits - their Pakistani/Muslim origin. They kept maintaining that this happened because UK society is too PC. This line of argument never made any sense to me because British society although is a great society, it still does have great deal of racism that it needs to overcome. Now there are new reports coming out which indicate that high level UK politicians were involved in child prostitution rings, which proves my initial line of argument that I consistently made in my other thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I agree that there are pedophiles of all origins, but having sex with children is an acceptable practice in a lot of predominantly Muslim cultures.
> 
> This is what I meant when I spoke of culture clash.  Something that is a crime in America or the UK, can be a perfectly acceptable practice in another culture.  They don't think there is anything wrong with bedding down with a 12-year-old child.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sex with children is not exactly widely acceptable.  In many parts of the world - Muslim and NON-Muslim, girls are married at 12, which is also considered puberty.  It's driven by poverty, culture, the idea that girls have little value (and it's not worth educating them) - even, in war torn areas - marrying them young to save them from rape. Not too long ago, when a supposed child bride was killed in Yemen - huge numbers of people protested child marriages, demonstrated against the government for laws preventing this and for enforcement of existing laws.  It ended up being a hoax but it drove action.
> 
> It's a complex problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I googled the Yemeni child bride and do not see where it was ever exposed as a hoax.
> 
> Oh, there have been other young girls who have died on the wedding nights due to internal bleeding.  I know you're going to find other excuses, but I'm sorry, but this religion is awful and yes, it condones these types of actions against women.  It's a very horrible and oppressive religion towards women and girls.
> 
> Child marriage - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Most religions, over history, influenced the marriageable age. For example, Christian ecclesiastical law forbade marriage of a girl before the age of puberty.[24] Hindu vedic scriptures mandated the age of a girl's marriage to be adulthood which they defined as three years after the onset of puberty.[25] Jewish scholars and rabbis strongly discouraged marriages before the onset of puberty.[23] In contrast, some Islamic marriage practices have permitted marriage of girls below the age of 10, because Shariat law is based in part on the life and practices of Muhammad, the Prophet, as described in part in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim. The Prophet married Aisha, his third wife, when she was about age six,[26] and consummated the marriage when she was about age nine.[27][28]
> 
> Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
> 
> —Sahih al-Bukhari, 7:62:64
Click to expand...


I think this is important -- In contrast, *some* Islamic marriage practices

The Yemeni incident might or might not have been a hoax - I read somewhere that it was and elsewhere that it wasn't -
snopes.com 8 Year-Old Yemeni Child Bride Dies of Internal Injuries

In a sense though it doesn't matter because it has long been an issue in Yemen that Yemeni's have been trying to change and this particular story was the straw that broke the camel's back.

On Aisha though - there is dissent aamongst Islamic scholars  to both her age of marriage and the accuracy of the Hadith that reported those events.

Aisha s Age

I HATE MY computer...it's not letting me reply right or paste links easily argh


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's been a lot of scandal in the UK in regards to sexual crimes against children being covered up going back some years.
> 
> A ‘big political cover-up’ of 1980s pedophile-ring in U.K. Parliament?
> 
> This is also from July but - it's disturbing to read the occupations of some of the people arrested but it sounds like they are taking things seriously and trying to clean it up: National Crime Agency - UK-wide operation snares 660 suspected paedophiles
> 
> _An unprecedented six-month operation coordinated by the NCA and involving 45 police forces across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland has led to the arrest of 660 suspected paedophiles.
> More than 400 children across the UK have been safeguarded.
> Some of those arrested had unsupervised access to children in the course of their work. *They include doctors, teachers, scout leaders, care workers and former police officers.*_​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my other thread about Pakistani men raping 1400 girls, I consistently maintained that authorities were involved in it. But most people who engaged in the discussion on that thread just latched on to one aspect of the culprits - their Pakistani/Muslim origin. They kept maintaining that this happened because UK society is too PC. This line of argument never made any sense to me because British society although is a great society, it still does have great deal of racism that it needs to overcome. Now there are new reports coming out which indicate that high level UK politicians were involved in child prostitution rings, which proves my initial line of argument that I consistently made in my other thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I agree that there are pedophiles of all origins, but having sex with children is an acceptable practice in a lot of predominantly Muslim cultures.
> 
> This is what I meant when I spoke of culture clash.  Something that is a crime in America or the UK, can be a perfectly acceptable practice in another culture.  They don't think there is anything wrong with bedding down with a 12-year-old child.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sex with children is not exactly widely acceptable.  In many parts of the world - Muslim and NON-Muslim, girls are married at 12, which is also considered puberty.  It's driven by poverty, culture, the idea that girls have little value (and it's not worth educating them) - even, in war torn areas - marrying them young to save them from rape. Not too long ago, when a supposed child bride was killed in Yemen - huge numbers of people protested child marriages, demonstrated against the government for laws preventing this and for enforcement of existing laws.  It ended up being a hoax but it drove action.
> 
> It's a complex problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I googled the Yemeni child bride and do not see where it was ever exposed as a hoax.
> 
> Oh, there have been other young girls who have died on the wedding nights due to internal bleeding.  I know you're going to find other excuses, but I'm sorry, but this religion is awful and yes, it condones these types of actions against women.  It's a very horrible and oppressive religion towards women and girls.
> 
> Child marriage - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Most religions, over history, influenced the marriageable age. For example, Christian ecclesiastical law forbade marriage of a girl before the age of puberty.[24] Hindu vedic scriptures mandated the age of a girl's marriage to be adulthood which they defined as three years after the onset of puberty.[25] Jewish scholars and rabbis strongly discouraged marriages before the onset of puberty.[23] In contrast, some Islamic marriage practices have permitted marriage of girls below the age of 10, because Shariat law is based in part on the life and practices of Muhammad, the Prophet, as described in part in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim. The Prophet married Aisha, his third wife, when she was about age six,[26] and consummated the marriage when she was about age nine.[27][28]
> 
> Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
> 
> —Sahih al-Bukhari, 7:62:64
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Obviously still having problems.  I'll give you some time to work out your reply.  Lol.


----------



## ChrisL

Now, I realize that this link is a little bit "questionable."  LOL, but there are links within the link for reference that are quite reliable sources.  

Sharia Law has led to the legislation of child marriage in 6 countries RAWA News


----------



## Phoenall

ChrisL said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously disturbing.  How were they able to get away with this?  Does nobody care about these kids?  WTH?  Hearing about stuff like this, just makes me soooo angry.
> 
> 
> 
> Angry?  Very interesting response.  So why is the death penalty not acceptable to you Britons then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the government went against the peoples wishes and banned it. Many people want to see it reinstated for certain crimes like child murder and terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I don't see why we can't just lock them up.  How does killing them make us any better?  If you murder, we're going to murder you?    Death penalty is disgusting, barbaric, primitive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But why shall we obligate ourselves to feeding them?  I would not mind cryogenically freezing them for the duration of their sentences, but that is prohibited too why?
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^
> 
> Yes, the Muslims just LOVE their death penalty too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In sharia law, the punishment for murder is not execution.  It is a negotiation of a payment plan to compensate the family of the victim.
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Angry?  Very interesting response.  So why is the death penalty not acceptable to you Britons then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the government went against the peoples wishes and banned it. Many people want to see it reinstated for certain crimes like child murder and terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I don't see why we can't just lock them up.  How does killing them make us any better?  If you murder, we're going to murder you?    Death penalty is disgusting, barbaric, primitive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you seen the costs involved in locking them up, in the UK it runs into £thousands per week to keep someone in prison. All this has to be found from tax revenues that could be spent elsewhere on more deserving causes. If we have to send them to prison lets make them work for the privilege by walking endlessly on a treadmill generating free electricity. Producing their own food from a prison farm and selling any surplus to cover any costs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For physical facts, they would not be able to generate even as little as 10% of their cell heating needs.  How about freezing them, but without slowing their metabolism so that they don't wake up at the end of their sentences like they are the same age as  entering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The death penalty is more expensive than to keep a prisoner in jail for life!  That is because of the automatic appeals process, and THAT is to protect us citizens against the government, if they are going to put us to death for crimes.
> 
> Good Lord!  That is not true at all.  Look at ALL the countries that are run by Sharia, and the death penalty is applied plenty of times for relatively small offenses, like adultery, being a homosexual, etc.
Click to expand...




So a person convicted of murder at age 25 would cost less to keep in prison for the next 40 years or so than to hang them one week after being found guilty ?


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's been a lot of scandal in the UK in regards to sexual crimes against children being covered up going back some years.
> 
> A ‘big political cover-up’ of 1980s pedophile-ring in U.K. Parliament?
> 
> This is also from July but - it's disturbing to read the occupations of some of the people arrested but it sounds like they are taking things seriously and trying to clean it up: National Crime Agency - UK-wide operation snares 660 suspected paedophiles
> 
> _An unprecedented six-month operation coordinated by the NCA and involving 45 police forces across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland has led to the arrest of 660 suspected paedophiles.
> More than 400 children across the UK have been safeguarded.
> Some of those arrested had unsupervised access to children in the course of their work. *They include doctors, teachers, scout leaders, care workers and former police officers.*_​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *And the vast majority of cases were committed by muslim men *following the commands of their religion and using sex abuse as a form of RACISM and TERRORISM
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was debunked in another thread.
Click to expand...




NOPE it never was, the media in the UK was full of the Judges words in his summing up and how many of the rapists treated the girls with contempt and hate. The facts were laid out at the trials and the rapists were never charged with the offenses of racism and terrorism like they should have been


----------



## ChrisL

Phoenall said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Angry?  Very interesting response.  So why is the death penalty not acceptable to you Britons then?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the government went against the peoples wishes and banned it. Many people want to see it reinstated for certain crimes like child murder and terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I don't see why we can't just lock them up.  How does killing them make us any better?  If you murder, we're going to murder you?    Death penalty is disgusting, barbaric, primitive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But why shall we obligate ourselves to feeding them?  I would not mind cryogenically freezing them for the duration of their sentences, but that is prohibited too why?
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^
> 
> Yes, the Muslims just LOVE their death penalty too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In sharia law, the punishment for murder is not execution.  It is a negotiation of a payment plan to compensate the family of the victim.
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because the government went against the peoples wishes and banned it. Many people want to see it reinstated for certain crimes like child murder and terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I don't see why we can't just lock them up.  How does killing them make us any better?  If you murder, we're going to murder you?    Death penalty is disgusting, barbaric, primitive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you seen the costs involved in locking them up, in the UK it runs into £thousands per week to keep someone in prison. All this has to be found from tax revenues that could be spent elsewhere on more deserving causes. If we have to send them to prison lets make them work for the privilege by walking endlessly on a treadmill generating free electricity. Producing their own food from a prison farm and selling any surplus to cover any costs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For physical facts, they would not be able to generate even as little as 10% of their cell heating needs.  How about freezing them, but without slowing their metabolism so that they don't wake up at the end of their sentences like they are the same age as  entering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The death penalty is more expensive than to keep a prisoner in jail for life!  That is because of the automatic appeals process, and THAT is to protect us citizens against the government, if they are going to put us to death for crimes.
> 
> Good Lord!  That is not true at all.  Look at ALL the countries that are run by Sharia, and the death penalty is applied plenty of times for relatively small offenses, like adultery, being a homosexual, etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So a person convicted of murder at age 25 would cost less to keep in prison for the next 40 years or so than to hang them one week after being found guilty ?
Click to expand...


We don't hang people here in America anymore.  We haven't done that in . . . I don't know how long.  

Because of automatic appeals process (the prisoner has no choice in this - it is an automatic process - this is to protect we citizens against the government, so that they can't just put people to death!!), it is VERY expensive.  The appeals process is very thorough (as it SHOULD be).  This is also why it takes so long to put people to death.


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Angry?  Very interesting response.  So why is the death penalty not acceptable to you Britons then?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm an American.  Besides, although I am angry, justice shouldn't be doled out based upon our emotions but upon the facts of the case.  I am an anti death penalty American because I don't think it's appropriate for government (at any level) have the power to kill citizens on a whim.  Besides, there have been many mistakes during many trials, which always leaves room for doubt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have a beautiful avatar.  Do you deserve it?
> 
> Many argue that prison is worse than a death penalty.  Plus even with judicial mistakes, prison years can't be undone.  They are not even financially compensated for those criminals that are exhonorated.  Why does then swapping prison for death make a difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Prison years can't be undone...but a life taken can never be returned.  Ask the prisoners what they would prefer, I think most would say life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was a case in a neighboring state to mine where a police officer was convicted of killing his mistress.  Well, come to find out, years and years later, he was innocent.
> 
> Scott Hornoff New England Innocence Project
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are way too many cases like that, and more and more keep coming to light.  I oppose the death penalty because of it's innate injustice and inequality.  If you're rich, have a good lawyer, white, you will get jail time over the death penalty.  If you are a black male and the victim is a white female - you are more likely to get the death penalty than vice versa. Even eye witness's have been proven to be inaccurate.  If the defendent is poor, he is far less likely to be able to get a good defense.  There is just so much wrong with the system.  It's brutal.
Click to expand...


I really think the difference is between rich and poor nowadays, as opposed to black/white.  Look at the infamous OJ trial.  It's MONEY that matters in this country.


----------



## BlackSand

anotherlife said:


> Pedophilia is like all other sex crimes, totally incurable.  Psychologists and liberals think that everything is curable.  Sometimes, the only cure is the bullet/gallow.  Why can't we do executions any more?



The death penalty is available in the state of Louisiana for cases involving child rape. This applies even in cases where the child did not die ... And whether or not the rapist intended for the child to die.

.


----------



## 007

All MUSLIM men in the OP... and the girl is SEVENTEEN? Hell that's OLD for muslims... they like 'em a hell of a lot younger than that... seeing as how their PROPHET, MUHHAMED, married a SIX YEAR OLD, and FUCKED her when she was NINE... so SEVENTEEN is pretty OLD for a mussie... give 'em a BREAK...


----------



## ChrisL

BlackSand said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pedophilia is like all other sex crimes, totally incurable.  Psychologists and liberals think that everything is curable.  Sometimes, the only cure is the bullet/gallow.  Why can't we do executions any more?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The death penalty is available in the state of Louisiana for cases involving child rape. This applies even in cases where the child did not die ... And whether or not the rapist intended for the child to die.
> 
> .
Click to expand...


And some people would say that would give the rapist motivation to go through with killing the child.


----------



## Vikrant

Folks,

Please do not insult prophet Muhammad. He delivered to people (believers) the message of god. He is respected by a large number of people world wide. It is wrong to disrespect him like that. Besides it is off topic. This thread is not here to discuss Islam and prophet Muhammad.


----------



## BlackSand

ChrisL said:


> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pedophilia is like all other sex crimes, totally incurable.  Psychologists and liberals think that everything is curable.  Sometimes, the only cure is the bullet/gallow.  Why can't we do executions any more?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The death penalty is available in the state of Louisiana for cases involving child rape. This applies even in cases where the child did not die ... And whether or not the rapist intended for the child to die.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And some people would say that would give the rapist motivation to go through with killing the child.
Click to expand...


Well ... Other people *do* say that it *is* a deterrent ... In any case, *it was struck down by SCotUS in regards to Kennedy v Louisiana.*

.


----------



## ChrisL

BlackSand said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pedophilia is like all other sex crimes, totally incurable.  Psychologists and liberals think that everything is curable.  Sometimes, the only cure is the bullet/gallow.  Why can't we do executions any more?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The death penalty is available in the state of Louisiana for cases involving child rape. This applies even in cases where the child did not die ... And whether or not the rapist intended for the child to die.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And some people would say that would give the rapist motivation to go through with killing the child.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well ... Other people *do* say that it *is* a deterrent ... In any case, it *is* the law.
> 
> .
Click to expand...


If a rapist thinks he will get the death penalty for raping a child, in some instances he will just kill the child to eliminate the witness to his crime, IMO.  I don't think such a law is doing the child victims any favors at all.


----------



## BlackSand

ChrisL said:


> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pedophilia is like all other sex crimes, totally incurable.  Psychologists and liberals think that everything is curable.  Sometimes, the only cure is the bullet/gallow.  Why can't we do executions any more?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The death penalty is available in the state of Louisiana for cases involving child rape. This applies even in cases where the child did not die ... And whether or not the rapist intended for the child to die.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And some people would say that would give the rapist motivation to go through with killing the child.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well ... Other people *do* say that it *is* a deterrent ... In any case, it *is* the law.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If a rapist thinks he will get the death penalty for raping a child, in some instances he will just kill the child to eliminate the witness to his crime, IMO.  I don't think such a law is doing the child victims any favors at all.
Click to expand...


SCOTUS opposed the law in regards to the 8th Amendment ... And used precedence established in "mental retardation" prohibitions against execution to save the child rapists. Which doesn't really protect them from execution ... It really just leaves the issue of their execution to their fellow inmates.

.


----------



## ChrisL

BlackSand said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pedophilia is like all other sex crimes, totally incurable.  Psychologists and liberals think that everything is curable.  Sometimes, the only cure is the bullet/gallow.  Why can't we do executions any more?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The death penalty is available in the state of Louisiana for cases involving child rape. This applies even in cases where the child did not die ... And whether or not the rapist intended for the child to die.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And some people would say that would give the rapist motivation to go through with killing the child.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well ... Other people *do* say that it *is* a deterrent ... In any case, it *is* the law.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If a rapist thinks he will get the death penalty for raping a child, in some instances he will just kill the child to eliminate the witness to his crime, IMO.  I don't think such a law is doing the child victims any favors at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> SCOTUS opposed the law in regards to the 8th Amendment ... And used precedence established in "mental retardation" prohibitions against execution to save the child rapists. Which doesn't really protect them from execution ... It really just leaves the issue of their execution to their fellow inmates.
> 
> .
Click to expand...


I don't have a problem with fellow inmates taking care of things.    Lol.  I have a problem with state sponsored killing for a variety of reasons.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pedophilia is like all other sex crimes, totally incurable.  Psychologists and liberals think that everything is curable.  Sometimes, the only cure is the bullet/gallow.  Why can't we do executions any more?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The death penalty is available in the state of Louisiana for cases involving child rape. This applies even in cases where the child did not die ... And whether or not the rapist intended for the child to die.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And some people would say that would give the rapist motivation to go through with killing the child.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well ... Other people *do* say that it *is* a deterrent ... In any case, it *is* the law.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If a rapist thinks he will get the death penalty for raping a child, in some instances he will just kill the child to eliminate the witness to his crime, IMO.  I don't think such a law is doing the child victims any favors at all.
Click to expand...



There are other factors as well.  One being - discerning guilt can be quite difficult, parents are known to accuse the other of child molestation in particularly bad rape cases, children's testimonies can be inaccurate.  The chances of killing an innocent person can be higher.

The other factor is quite often the perpetrator is someone the child knows and is close to and a childs feelings may be very mixed and torn.  If they know that the perpetrator will be killed they might be that much less likely to testify against them or they might feel responsible.  Life in prison stands a better chance of gaining convictions than the death penalty and less chance of innocent people being killed.


----------



## ChrisL

Believe me, my reasons for being against the DP have nothing to do with sympathy of any kind for the accused, that's for sure.  There are some stories I hear (like this one) where I would like to strangle people with my own bare hands because they make me so angry.


----------



## 007

Vikrant said:


> Folks,
> 
> Please do not insult prophet Muhammad. He delivered to people (believers) the message of god. He is respected by a large number of people world wide. It is wrong to disrespect him like that. Besides it is off topic. This thread is not here to discuss Islam and prophet Muhammad.


And exactly how has the fraudulent prophet, pedophile muhammad been insulted?


----------



## Coyote

Let's discuss the topic and not derail the thread.


----------



## ChrisL

Vikrant said:


> Folks,
> 
> Please do not insult prophet Muhammad. He delivered to people (believers) the message of god. He is respected by a large number of people world wide. It is wrong to disrespect him like that. Besides it is off topic. This thread is not here to discuss Islam and prophet Muhammad.



I won't, out of respect for you and your thread, but I don't have any respect for Muhammad whatsoever.  Sorry.


----------



## Vikrant

007 said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Folks,
> 
> Please do not insult prophet Muhammad. He delivered to people (believers) the message of god. He is respected by a large number of people world wide. It is wrong to disrespect him like that. Besides it is off topic. This thread is not here to discuss Islam and prophet Muhammad.
> 
> 
> 
> And exactly how has the fraudulent prophet, pedophile muhammad been insulted?
Click to expand...


Dude, 

This thread is not about Muhammad. This thread is not about Islam either. Heck, this thread is not even about religion. Yet, you are bringing Muhammad into it. Let us discuss the topic at hand.


----------



## 007

Vikrant said:


> 007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Folks,
> 
> Please do not insult prophet Muhammad. He delivered to people (believers) the message of god. He is respected by a large number of people world wide. It is wrong to disrespect him like that. Besides it is off topic. This thread is not here to discuss Islam and prophet Muhammad.
> 
> 
> 
> And exactly how has the fraudulent prophet, pedophile muhammad been insulted?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dude,
> 
> This thread is not about Muhammad. This thread is not about Islam either. Heck, this thread is not even about religion. Yet, you are bringing Muhammad into it. Let us discuss the topic at hand.
Click to expand...

This thread most certainly is about islam.

It was all islamists involved, therefore what islamists believe is most relevant.... _DUDE._


----------



## BlackSand

Coyote said:


> Let's discuss the topic and not derail the thread.



You mean like the idea the men complaining the court's equivalent of a restraining order is a violation of their rights? 

Courts have issued restraining orders for far less than the behavior exhibited ... And Social Services remove children from their patents for minuscule reasons in comparison at times.

Oh Crap ... There I go derailing again ... 

.


----------



## Vikrant

ChrisL said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Folks,
> 
> Please do not insult prophet Muhammad. He delivered to people (believers) the message of god. He is respected by a large number of people world wide. It is wrong to disrespect him like that. Besides it is off topic. This thread is not here to discuss Islam and prophet Muhammad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I won't, out of respect for you and your thread, but I don't have any respect for Muhammad whatsoever.  Sorry.
Click to expand...


You are entitle to your opinion. This is a free country. I am not a Muslim. I am a Buddhist. But I respect other people's religion and religious figures. Because it would hurt me if you were to say mean things about Lord Buddha or my Buddhist faith. 

I am thankful for your respect, mon bel ange


----------



## Vikrant

BlackSand said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's discuss the topic and not derail the thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like the idea the men complaining the court's equivalent of a restraining order is a violation of their rights?
> 
> Courts have issued restraining orders for far less than the behavior exhibited ... And Social Services remove children from their patents for minuscule reasons in comparison at times.
> 
> Oh Crap ... There I go derailing again ...
> 
> .
Click to expand...


I believe her directive was directed at 007 not you. You are fine as usual.


----------



## 007

Vikrant said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Folks,
> 
> Please do not insult prophet Muhammad. He delivered to people (believers) the message of god. He is respected by a large number of people world wide. It is wrong to disrespect him like that. Besides it is off topic. This thread is not here to discuss Islam and prophet Muhammad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I won't, out of respect for you and your thread, but I don't have any respect for Muhammad whatsoever.  Sorry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are entitle to your opinion. This is a free country. I am not a Muslim. I am a Buddhist. But I respect other people's religion and religious figures. Because it would hurt me if you were to say mean things about Lord Buddha or my Buddhist faith.
> 
> I am thankful for your respect, mon bel ange
Click to expand...

islam is a cult, not a religion.


----------



## Coyote

007 said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Folks,
> 
> Please do not insult prophet Muhammad. He delivered to people (believers) the message of god. He is respected by a large number of people world wide. It is wrong to disrespect him like that. Besides it is off topic. This thread is not here to discuss Islam and prophet Muhammad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I won't, out of respect for you and your thread, but I don't have any respect for Muhammad whatsoever.  Sorry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are entitle to your opinion. This is a free country. I am not a Muslim. I am a Buddhist. But I respect other people's religion and religious figures. Because it would hurt me if you were to say mean things about Lord Buddha or my Buddhist faith.
> 
> I am thankful for your respect, mon bel ange
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> islam is a cult, not a religion.
Click to expand...



Ok....I'm going to use my red voice 007. * Stop trying to derail the topic*.  There are oodles of Islam threads out there for you to happily play in.


----------



## 007

Coyote said:


> 007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Folks,
> 
> Please do not insult prophet Muhammad. He delivered to people (believers) the message of god. He is respected by a large number of people world wide. It is wrong to disrespect him like that. Besides it is off topic. This thread is not here to discuss Islam and prophet Muhammad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I won't, out of respect for you and your thread, but I don't have any respect for Muhammad whatsoever.  Sorry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are entitle to your opinion. This is a free country. I am not a Muslim. I am a Buddhist. But I respect other people's religion and religious figures. Because it would hurt me if you were to say mean things about Lord Buddha or my Buddhist faith.
> 
> I am thankful for your respect, mon bel ange
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> islam is a cult, not a religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Ok....I'm going to use my red voice 007. * Stop trying to derail the topic*.  There are oodles of Islam threads out there for you to happily play in.
Click to expand...

Gotcha, don't talk about islam where islamists are mentioned... good call, liberal protector.


----------



## anotherlife

Here is a thought. 

Every business takes care of its voulnerabilities, along with its other problems.

So, if you live in Britain and you have a daughter or sister, shoot her.  Why would you carry such voulnerable liabilities around in today's efficiency oriented world?

Problem solved.


----------



## ChrisL

anotherlife said:


> Here is a thought.
> 
> Every business takes care of its voulnerabilities, along with its other problems.
> 
> So, if you live in Britain and you have a daughter or sister, shoot her.  Why would you carry such voulnerable liabilities around in today's efficiency oriented world?
> 
> Problem solved.



Thank for the demonstration of the depth of your thought process, which is quite shallow I must say.  Lol!  People like you are a dime a dozen, hope you realize that you are NOT so shocking, POS troll.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Vikrant said:


> You are entitle to your opinion. This is a free country. I am not a Muslim. I am a Buddhist. But I respect other people's religion and religious figures. Because it would hurt me if you were to say mean things about Lord Buddha or my Buddhist faith.
> 
> I am thankful for your respect, mon bel ange



One thing that is nice about you Buddhists is that when I want to stand up and cheer your posts, I only need to use one hand clapping.


----------



## Vikrant

ChrisL said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a thought.
> 
> Every business takes care of its voulnerabilities, along with its other problems.
> 
> So, if you live in Britain and you have a daughter or sister, shoot her.  Why would you carry such voulnerable liabilities around in today's efficiency oriented world?
> 
> Problem solved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank for the demonstration of the depth of your thought process, which is quite shallow I must say.  Lol!  People like you are a dime a dozen, hope you realize that you are NOT so shocking, POS troll.
Click to expand...


I could be wrong but I think he was being satirical.


----------



## ChrisL

Vikrant said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a thought.
> 
> Every business takes care of its voulnerabilities, along with its other problems.
> 
> So, if you live in Britain and you have a daughter or sister, shoot her.  Why would you carry such voulnerable liabilities around in today's efficiency oriented world?
> 
> Problem solved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank for the demonstration of the depth of your thought process, which is quite shallow I must say.  Lol!  People like you are a dime a dozen, hope you realize that you are NOT so shocking, POS troll.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I could be wrong but I think he was being satirical.
Click to expand...


We can only hope, but you never really know around here!


----------



## Phoenall

Vikrant said:


> Folks,
> 
> Please do not insult prophet Muhammad. He delivered to people (believers) the message of god. He is respected by a large number of people world wide. It is wrong to disrespect him like that. Besides it is off topic. This thread is not here to discuss Islam and prophet Muhammad.




 When it has a bearing on many of the cases of child rape then it is fundamental to the thread.

 Maybe you can tell me what he prophesised that was not already known, what new prophesies did he bring to mankind. His god could not even get the simplest of things right


----------



## Vikrant

Phoenall said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Folks,
> 
> Please do not insult prophet Muhammad. He delivered to people (believers) the message of god. He is respected by a large number of people world wide. It is wrong to disrespect him like that. Besides it is off topic. This thread is not here to discuss Islam and prophet Muhammad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When it has a bearing on many of the cases of child rape then it is fundamental to the thread.
> 
> Maybe you can tell me what he prophesised that was not already known, what new prophesies did he bring to mankind. His god could not even get the simplest of things right
Click to expand...


I cannot answer your questions because I am not Muslim. If you are curious then start a thread with that topic and may be Muslim members like Coyote can answer your question. But this thread is clearly not about discussing religion. 

I do understand your point though that Pakistanis makeup a large portion of culprits who engage in child grooming given they are less than 2 percent of the UK's population. But still this does not justify turning this thread into Islam bashing.


----------



## ChrisL

Vikrant said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Folks,
> 
> Please do not insult prophet Muhammad. He delivered to people (believers) the message of god. He is respected by a large number of people world wide. It is wrong to disrespect him like that. Besides it is off topic. This thread is not here to discuss Islam and prophet Muhammad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When it has a bearing on many of the cases of child rape then it is fundamental to the thread.
> 
> Maybe you can tell me what he prophesised that was not already known, what new prophesies did he bring to mankind. His god could not even get the simplest of things right
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I cannot answer your questions because I am not Muslim. If you are curious then start a thread with that topic and may be Muslim members like Coyote can answer your question. But this thread is clearly not about discussing religion.
> 
> I do understand your point though that Pakistanis makeup a large portion of culprits who engage in child grooming given they are less than 2 percent of the UK's population. But still this does not justify turning this thread into Islam bashing.
Click to expand...


I don't see why we can't discuss the topic and just leave the religious bashing aside.  I agree that pedophilia is most certainly NOT just a "Muslim" problem, when I think of the fairly recent priest sex abuse scandals here in the US, so yes, I can see what you are saying, but at the same time I don't see any other religious denominations participating in child marriage, etc.  

I mean, I've read some pretty horrible things, about 12-year-old girls sold by their fathers to 80-year-old men as "wives."  Just think about what it must be like to be one of these poor girls.  What a horrible life.


----------



## Vikrant

ChrisL said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Folks,
> 
> Please do not insult prophet Muhammad. He delivered to people (believers) the message of god. He is respected by a large number of people world wide. It is wrong to disrespect him like that. Besides it is off topic. This thread is not here to discuss Islam and prophet Muhammad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When it has a bearing on many of the cases of child rape then it is fundamental to the thread.
> 
> Maybe you can tell me what he prophesised that was not already known, what new prophesies did he bring to mankind. His god could not even get the simplest of things right
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I cannot answer your questions because I am not Muslim. If you are curious then start a thread with that topic and may be Muslim members like Coyote can answer your question. But this thread is clearly not about discussing religion.
> 
> I do understand your point though that Pakistanis makeup a large portion of culprits who engage in child grooming given they are less than 2 percent of the UK's population. But still this does not justify turning this thread into Islam bashing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't see why we can't discuss the topic and just leave the religious bashing aside.  I agree that pedophilia is most certainly NOT just a "Muslim" problem, when I think of the fairly recent priest sex abuse scandals here in the US, so yes, I can see what you are saying, but at the same time I don't see any other religious denominations participating in child marriage, etc.
> 
> I mean, I've read some pretty horrible things, about 12-year-old girls sold by their fathers to 80-year-old men as "wives."  Just think about what it must be like to be one of these poor girls.  What a horrible life.
Click to expand...


Fair enough. 

Let us see if we can find following two key data from the UK:

a) Population of Pakistanis in the UK
b) What percent of UK Pakistanis are involved in child grooming 

As far as item a) is concerned, I think Pakistanis make about 2% of the UK population. I am not sure about the item b). Does anyone have data on item b)?


----------



## ChrisL

Vikrant said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Folks,
> 
> Please do not insult prophet Muhammad. He delivered to people (believers) the message of god. He is respected by a large number of people world wide. It is wrong to disrespect him like that. Besides it is off topic. This thread is not here to discuss Islam and prophet Muhammad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When it has a bearing on many of the cases of child rape then it is fundamental to the thread.
> 
> Maybe you can tell me what he prophesised that was not already known, what new prophesies did he bring to mankind. His god could not even get the simplest of things right
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I cannot answer your questions because I am not Muslim. If you are curious then start a thread with that topic and may be Muslim members like Coyote can answer your question. But this thread is clearly not about discussing religion.
> 
> I do understand your point though that Pakistanis makeup a large portion of culprits who engage in child grooming given they are less than 2 percent of the UK's population. But still this does not justify turning this thread into Islam bashing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't see why we can't discuss the topic and just leave the religious bashing aside.  I agree that pedophilia is most certainly NOT just a "Muslim" problem, when I think of the fairly recent priest sex abuse scandals here in the US, so yes, I can see what you are saying, but at the same time I don't see any other religious denominations participating in child marriage, etc.
> 
> I mean, I've read some pretty horrible things, about 12-year-old girls sold by their fathers to 80-year-old men as "wives."  Just think about what it must be like to be one of these poor girls.  What a horrible life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fair enough.
> 
> Let us see if we can find following two key data from the UK:
> 
> a) Population of Pakistanis in the UK
> b) What percent of UK Pakistanis are involved in child grooming
> 
> As far as item a) is concerned, I think Pakistanis make about 2% of the UK population. I am not sure about the item b). Does anyone have data on item b)?
Click to expand...


Well, that number would not be known.  We only know about those who have been caught.  I don't see how that's relevant to my statements anyway.  The point is that, in some areas, it is a part of their culture to marry children/young teenagers.  That is (supposed to be) against the law, although I'm not sure about the laws in the UK.  I know that here in the US, we have some pretty strict laws when it comes to sex/consent laws and minors in most of the states.


----------



## Vikrant

ChrisL said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Folks,
> 
> Please do not insult prophet Muhammad. He delivered to people (believers) the message of god. He is respected by a large number of people world wide. It is wrong to disrespect him like that. Besides it is off topic. This thread is not here to discuss Islam and prophet Muhammad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When it has a bearing on many of the cases of child rape then it is fundamental to the thread.
> 
> Maybe you can tell me what he prophesised that was not already known, what new prophesies did he bring to mankind. His god could not even get the simplest of things right
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I cannot answer your questions because I am not Muslim. If you are curious then start a thread with that topic and may be Muslim members like Coyote can answer your question. But this thread is clearly not about discussing religion.
> 
> I do understand your point though that Pakistanis makeup a large portion of culprits who engage in child grooming given they are less than 2 percent of the UK's population. But still this does not justify turning this thread into Islam bashing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't see why we can't discuss the topic and just leave the religious bashing aside.  I agree that pedophilia is most certainly NOT just a "Muslim" problem, when I think of the fairly recent priest sex abuse scandals here in the US, so yes, I can see what you are saying, but at the same time I don't see any other religious denominations participating in child marriage, etc.
> 
> I mean, I've read some pretty horrible things, about 12-year-old girls sold by their fathers to 80-year-old men as "wives."  Just think about what it must be like to be one of these poor girls.  What a horrible life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fair enough.
> 
> Let us see if we can find following two key data from the UK:
> 
> a) Population of Pakistanis in the UK
> b) What percent of UK Pakistanis are involved in child grooming
> 
> As far as item a) is concerned, I think Pakistanis make about 2% of the UK population. I am not sure about the item b). Does anyone have data on item b)?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, that number would not be known.  We only know about those who have been caught.  I don't see how that's relevant to my statements anyway.  The point is that, in some areas, it is a part of their culture to marry children/young teenagers.  That is (supposed to be) against the law, although I'm not sure about the laws in the UK.  I know that here in the US, we have some pretty strict laws when it comes to sex/consent laws and minors in most of the states.
Click to expand...


I want to avoid following artificial narratives: 

- It is their culture to marry young girls. That is why they rape young girls. 
- Islam is bad. That is why Muslim men engage in child grooming. 

Instead, I would like to focus on statistics. 

It should be quite easy to prove statistically if you have demographic and criminal statistics of the UK in front of you. All we need to do is find out two things:

a) What is the percentage of Pakistanis in UK
b) What is the percentage of Pakistani sex criminals among general UK sex criminals

Arguments that we cannot obtain data outlined in item b) because British authorities failed to prosecute those men does not appeal to me. Simply because, that is the fault of the authorities. That brings us back to the original point I was trying to make. Authorities are involved in the child grooming rings.


----------



## ChrisL

Vikrant said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> When it has a bearing on many of the cases of child rape then it is fundamental to the thread.
> 
> Maybe you can tell me what he prophesised that was not already known, what new prophesies did he bring to mankind. His god could not even get the simplest of things right
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cannot answer your questions because I am not Muslim. If you are curious then start a thread with that topic and may be Muslim members like Coyote can answer your question. But this thread is clearly not about discussing religion.
> 
> I do understand your point though that Pakistanis makeup a large portion of culprits who engage in child grooming given they are less than 2 percent of the UK's population. But still this does not justify turning this thread into Islam bashing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't see why we can't discuss the topic and just leave the religious bashing aside.  I agree that pedophilia is most certainly NOT just a "Muslim" problem, when I think of the fairly recent priest sex abuse scandals here in the US, so yes, I can see what you are saying, but at the same time I don't see any other religious denominations participating in child marriage, etc.
> 
> I mean, I've read some pretty horrible things, about 12-year-old girls sold by their fathers to 80-year-old men as "wives."  Just think about what it must be like to be one of these poor girls.  What a horrible life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fair enough.
> 
> Let us see if we can find following two key data from the UK:
> 
> a) Population of Pakistanis in the UK
> b) What percent of UK Pakistanis are involved in child grooming
> 
> As far as item a) is concerned, I think Pakistanis make about 2% of the UK population. I am not sure about the item b). Does anyone have data on item b)?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, that number would not be known.  We only know about those who have been caught.  I don't see how that's relevant to my statements anyway.  The point is that, in some areas, it is a part of their culture to marry children/young teenagers.  That is (supposed to be) against the law, although I'm not sure about the laws in the UK.  I know that here in the US, we have some pretty strict laws when it comes to sex/consent laws and minors in most of the states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I want to avoid following artificial narratives:
> 
> - It is their culture to marry young girls. That is why they rape young girls.
> - Islam is bad. That is why Muslim men engage in child grooming.
> 
> Instead, I would like to focus on statistics.
> 
> It should be quite easy to prove statistically if you have demographic and criminal statistics of the UK in front of you. All we need to do is find out two things:
> 
> a) What is the percentage of Pakistanis in UK
> b) What is the percentage of Pakistani sex criminals among general UK sex criminals
> 
> Arguments that we cannot obtain data outlined in item b) because British authorities failed to prosecute those men does not appeal to me. Simply because, that is the fault of the authorities. That brings us back to the original point I was trying to make. Authorities are involved in the child grooming rings.
Click to expand...


I don't deny that the authorities are involved, but the reason why these rings exist is because of a demand that exists.  

Also, if the authorities have been covering things up, then the statistics wouldn't be very accurate, would they?


----------



## Vikrant

ChrisL said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I cannot answer your questions because I am not Muslim. If you are curious then start a thread with that topic and may be Muslim members like Coyote can answer your question. But this thread is clearly not about discussing religion.
> 
> I do understand your point though that Pakistanis makeup a large portion of culprits who engage in child grooming given they are less than 2 percent of the UK's population. But still this does not justify turning this thread into Islam bashing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see why we can't discuss the topic and just leave the religious bashing aside.  I agree that pedophilia is most certainly NOT just a "Muslim" problem, when I think of the fairly recent priest sex abuse scandals here in the US, so yes, I can see what you are saying, but at the same time I don't see any other religious denominations participating in child marriage, etc.
> 
> I mean, I've read some pretty horrible things, about 12-year-old girls sold by their fathers to 80-year-old men as "wives."  Just think about what it must be like to be one of these poor girls.  What a horrible life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fair enough.
> 
> Let us see if we can find following two key data from the UK:
> 
> a) Population of Pakistanis in the UK
> b) What percent of UK Pakistanis are involved in child grooming
> 
> As far as item a) is concerned, I think Pakistanis make about 2% of the UK population. I am not sure about the item b). Does anyone have data on item b)?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, that number would not be known.  We only know about those who have been caught.  I don't see how that's relevant to my statements anyway.  The point is that, in some areas, it is a part of their culture to marry children/young teenagers.  That is (supposed to be) against the law, although I'm not sure about the laws in the UK.  I know that here in the US, we have some pretty strict laws when it comes to sex/consent laws and minors in most of the states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I want to avoid following artificial narratives:
> 
> - It is their culture to marry young girls. That is why they rape young girls.
> - Islam is bad. That is why Muslim men engage in child grooming.
> 
> Instead, I would like to focus on statistics.
> 
> It should be quite easy to prove statistically if you have demographic and criminal statistics of the UK in front of you. All we need to do is find out two things:
> 
> a) What is the percentage of Pakistanis in UK
> b) What is the percentage of Pakistani sex criminals among general UK sex criminals
> 
> Arguments that we cannot obtain data outlined in item b) because British authorities failed to prosecute those men does not appeal to me. Simply because, that is the fault of the authorities. That brings us back to the original point I was trying to make. Authorities are involved in the child grooming rings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't deny that the authorities are involved, but the reason why these rings exist is because of a demand that exists.
> 
> Also, if the authorities have been covering things up, then the statistics wouldn't be very accurate, would they?
Click to expand...


Demand I think is coming from the elites. I could be wrong though. Pakistani men in the question are probably just pimps (child groomers). There is a reason why authorities are hiding the statistics. I think they are/were involved.


----------



## RoshanNair

Pakistanis are only good for four things:

- sexually grooming children
- marrying their cousins
- sponsoring terrorism around the globe
- starting and losing wars against India


----------



## Vikrant

RoshanNair said:


> Pakistanis are only good for four things:
> 
> - sexually grooming children
> - marrying their cousins
> - sponsoring terrorism around the globe
> - starting and losing wars against India



Do you happen to have any statistics that details what percentage Pakistanis make among UK's child groomers?


----------



## ChrisL

Vikrant said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see why we can't discuss the topic and just leave the religious bashing aside.  I agree that pedophilia is most certainly NOT just a "Muslim" problem, when I think of the fairly recent priest sex abuse scandals here in the US, so yes, I can see what you are saying, but at the same time I don't see any other religious denominations participating in child marriage, etc.
> 
> I mean, I've read some pretty horrible things, about 12-year-old girls sold by their fathers to 80-year-old men as "wives."  Just think about what it must be like to be one of these poor girls.  What a horrible life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fair enough.
> 
> Let us see if we can find following two key data from the UK:
> 
> a) Population of Pakistanis in the UK
> b) What percent of UK Pakistanis are involved in child grooming
> 
> As far as item a) is concerned, I think Pakistanis make about 2% of the UK population. I am not sure about the item b). Does anyone have data on item b)?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, that number would not be known.  We only know about those who have been caught.  I don't see how that's relevant to my statements anyway.  The point is that, in some areas, it is a part of their culture to marry children/young teenagers.  That is (supposed to be) against the law, although I'm not sure about the laws in the UK.  I know that here in the US, we have some pretty strict laws when it comes to sex/consent laws and minors in most of the states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I want to avoid following artificial narratives:
> 
> - It is their culture to marry young girls. That is why they rape young girls.
> - Islam is bad. That is why Muslim men engage in child grooming.
> 
> Instead, I would like to focus on statistics.
> 
> It should be quite easy to prove statistically if you have demographic and criminal statistics of the UK in front of you. All we need to do is find out two things:
> 
> a) What is the percentage of Pakistanis in UK
> b) What is the percentage of Pakistani sex criminals among general UK sex criminals
> 
> Arguments that we cannot obtain data outlined in item b) because British authorities failed to prosecute those men does not appeal to me. Simply because, that is the fault of the authorities. That brings us back to the original point I was trying to make. Authorities are involved in the child grooming rings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't deny that the authorities are involved, but the reason why these rings exist is because of a demand that exists.
> 
> Also, if the authorities have been covering things up, then the statistics wouldn't be very accurate, would they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Demand I think is coming from the elites. I could be wrong though. Pakistani men in the question are probably just pimps (child groomers). There is a reason why authorities are hiding the statistics. I think they are/were involved.
Click to expand...


I don't doubt for a minute they are involved in some way.  What other reason would they have to cover it up?  I don't buy that it's just to be politically correct.  They were making money or something, or there is a very important person/people involved in the actual molestations.  Disgusting.  Just thinking about it makes my stomach churn.


----------



## RoshanNair

Vikrant said:


> RoshanNair said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistanis are only good for four things:
> 
> - sexually grooming children
> - marrying their cousins
> - sponsoring terrorism around the globe
> - starting and losing wars against India
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you happen to have any statistics that details what percentage Pakistanis make among UK's child groomers?
Click to expand...


I was kidding...and no, but would that really make a difference Vik? Muslim immigrants in Europe are a minority (still) and yet they're disproportionately represented in the jails for a wide range of crimes. I think the closest statistic was on Muslim rapists in Scandinavian countries, something like 90% of all rapes in Norway over the last few years have been at the hands of Muslim immigrants.

Doesn't it strike people as odd that a minority community is always in the news for this garbage?


----------



## Phoenall

anotherlife said:


> Here is a thought.
> 
> Every business takes care of its voulnerabilities, along with its other problems.
> 
> So, if you live in Britain and you have a daughter or sister, shoot her.  Why would you carry such voulnerable liabilities around in today's efficiency oriented world?
> 
> Problem solved.





Wouldn't it be cheaper and more fulfilling to just shoot all pakistani muslim adult males before they got a chance to rape some 11 or 12 year old child. Do you think it would stop the mass immigration that has ruined this country over the last 20 years ?


----------



## Phoenall

RoshanNair said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoshanNair said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistanis are only good for four things:
> 
> - sexually grooming children
> - marrying their cousins
> - sponsoring terrorism around the globe
> - starting and losing wars against India
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you happen to have any statistics that details what percentage Pakistanis make among UK's child groomers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was kidding...and no, but would that really make a difference Vik? Muslim immigrants in Europe are a minority (still) and yet they're disproportionately represented in the jails for a wide range of crimes. I think the closest statistic was on Muslim rapists in Scandinavian countries, something like 90% of all rapes in Norway over the last few years have been at the hands of Muslim immigrants.
> 
> Doesn't it strike people as odd that a minority community is always in the news for this garbage?
Click to expand...




 How about these factoids  like 80% of all crime in Britain is committed by just 20% of the population, all immigrants

 More children groomed, raped and racially abused by Pakistani men than by any other group

 Most violent crime is committed by non British

 Most sexual crime is committed by non British.

 All from the UK governments own agency.


----------



## ChrisL

Phoenall said:


> RoshanNair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoshanNair said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistanis are only good for four things:
> 
> - sexually grooming children
> - marrying their cousins
> - sponsoring terrorism around the globe
> - starting and losing wars against India
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you happen to have any statistics that details what percentage Pakistanis make among UK's child groomers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was kidding...and no, but would that really make a difference Vik? Muslim immigrants in Europe are a minority (still) and yet they're disproportionately represented in the jails for a wide range of crimes. I think the closest statistic was on Muslim rapists in Scandinavian countries, something like 90% of all rapes in Norway over the last few years have been at the hands of Muslim immigrants.
> 
> Doesn't it strike people as odd that a minority community is always in the news for this garbage?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about these factoids  like 80% of all crime in Britain is committed by just 20% of the population, all immigrants
> 
> More children groomed, raped and racially abused by Pakistani men than by any other group
> 
> Most violent crime is committed by non British
> 
> Most sexual crime is committed by non British.
> 
> All from the UK governments own agency.
Click to expand...


Do you have any links to this data?  Which agencies are reporting?


----------



## Vikrant

RoshanNair said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoshanNair said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistanis are only good for four things:
> 
> - sexually grooming children
> - marrying their cousins
> - sponsoring terrorism around the globe
> - starting and losing wars against India
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you happen to have any statistics that details what percentage Pakistanis make among UK's child groomers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was kidding...and no, but would that really make a difference Vik? Muslim immigrants in Europe are a minority (still) and yet they're disproportionately represented in the jails for a wide range of crimes. I think the closest statistic was on Muslim rapists in Scandinavian countries, something like 90% of all rapes in Norway over the last few years have been at the hands of Muslim immigrants.
> 
> Doesn't it strike people as odd that a minority community is always in the news for this garbage?
Click to expand...



Very interesting! I was not aware that 90% of the rapes committed in Scandinavian countries were committed by Muslims. What percentage Muslims constitute of Scandinavian population? 

Do you have credible link citing those statistics?


----------



## Phoenall

ChrisL said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoshanNair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoshanNair said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistanis are only good for four things:
> 
> - sexually grooming children
> - marrying their cousins
> - sponsoring terrorism around the globe
> - starting and losing wars against India
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you happen to have any statistics that details what percentage Pakistanis make among UK's child groomers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was kidding...and no, but would that really make a difference Vik? Muslim immigrants in Europe are a minority (still) and yet they're disproportionately represented in the jails for a wide range of crimes. I think the closest statistic was on Muslim rapists in Scandinavian countries, something like 90% of all rapes in Norway over the last few years have been at the hands of Muslim immigrants.
> 
> Doesn't it strike people as odd that a minority community is always in the news for this garbage?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about these factoids  like 80% of all crime in Britain is committed by just 20% of the population, all immigrants
> 
> More children groomed, raped and racially abused by Pakistani men than by any other group
> 
> Most violent crime is committed by non British
> 
> Most sexual crime is committed by non British.
> 
> All from the UK governments own agency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have any links to this data?  Which agencies are reporting?
Click to expand...




The NSA/NSO which deals with national statistics have released the figures over the last few years.


----------



## Vikrant

Phoenall said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoshanNair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoshanNair said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistanis are only good for four things:
> 
> - sexually grooming children
> - marrying their cousins
> - sponsoring terrorism around the globe
> - starting and losing wars against India
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you happen to have any statistics that details what percentage Pakistanis make among UK's child groomers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was kidding...and no, but would that really make a difference Vik? Muslim immigrants in Europe are a minority (still) and yet they're disproportionately represented in the jails for a wide range of crimes. I think the closest statistic was on Muslim rapists in Scandinavian countries, something like 90% of all rapes in Norway over the last few years have been at the hands of Muslim immigrants.
> 
> Doesn't it strike people as odd that a minority community is always in the news for this garbage?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about these factoids  like 80% of all crime in Britain is committed by just 20% of the population, all immigrants
> 
> More children groomed, raped and racially abused by Pakistani men than by any other group
> 
> Most violent crime is committed by non British
> 
> Most sexual crime is committed by non British.
> 
> All from the UK governments own agency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have any links to this data?  Which agencies are reporting?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The NSA/NSO which deals with national statistics have released the figures over the last few years.
Click to expand...


Where is the link?


----------



## anotherlife

Raping girls (and guys) is a standard "weapon" of warfare outside the western strip of Europe.  Ask how many Bosnian girls were raped in the 1990's because of their muslim religion.  The country of Netherlands has lost a war crime trial about it just recently, many more to follow.  HEHEHE


----------



## Vikrant

anotherlife said:


> Raping girls (and guys) is a standard "weapon" of warfare outside the western strip of Europe.  Ask how many Bosnian girls were raped in the 1990's because of their muslim religion.  The country of Netherlands has lost a war crime trial about it just recently, many more to follow.  HEHEHE



There are plenty of countries outside of western Europe that do not use rape as weapons at least not any more than so called advanced western Europeans. This thread was not created for people to engage in cultural arrogance. Please stick to the topic and refrain from reaching simplistic conclusions.


----------



## Phoenall

Vikrant said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoshanNair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you happen to have any statistics that details what percentage Pakistanis make among UK's child groomers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was kidding...and no, but would that really make a difference Vik? Muslim immigrants in Europe are a minority (still) and yet they're disproportionately represented in the jails for a wide range of crimes. I think the closest statistic was on Muslim rapists in Scandinavian countries, something like 90% of all rapes in Norway over the last few years have been at the hands of Muslim immigrants.
> 
> Doesn't it strike people as odd that a minority community is always in the news for this garbage?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about these factoids  like 80% of all crime in Britain is committed by just 20% of the population, all immigrants
> 
> More children groomed, raped and racially abused by Pakistani men than by any other group
> 
> Most violent crime is committed by non British
> 
> Most sexual crime is committed by non British.
> 
> All from the UK governments own agency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have any links to this data?  Which agencies are reporting?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The NSA/NSO which deals with national statistics have released the figures over the last few years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where is the link?
Click to expand...


----------



## Phoenall

Here you go, have fun

Office for National Statistics ONS - ONS


----------



## Vikrant

Phoenall said:


> Here you go, have fun
> 
> Office for National Statistics ONS - ONS



I did not see anything there that supports your claim.


----------



## anotherlife

Vikrant said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Raping girls (and guys) is a standard "weapon" of warfare outside the western strip of Europe.  Ask how many Bosnian girls were raped in the 1990's because of their muslim religion.  The country of Netherlands has lost a war crime trial about it just recently, many more to follow.  HEHEHE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are plenty of countries outside of western Europe that do not use rape as weapons at least not any more than so called advanced western Europeans. This thread was not created for people to engage in cultural arrogance. Please stick to the topic and refrain from reaching simplistic conclusions.
Click to expand...

That is not what I said, and the country on trial like I said has been The Netherlands, a Western European country.


----------



## Vikrant

anotherlife said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Raping girls (and guys) is a standard "weapon" of warfare outside the western strip of Europe.  Ask how many Bosnian girls were raped in the 1990's because of their muslim religion.  The country of Netherlands has lost a war crime trial about it just recently, many more to follow.  HEHEHE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are plenty of countries outside of western Europe that do not use rape as weapons at least not any more than so called advanced western Europeans. This thread was not created for people to engage in cultural arrogance. Please stick to the topic and refrain from reaching simplistic conclusions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not what I said, and the country on trial like I said has been The Netherlands, a Western European country.
Click to expand...


I am glad we sorted out our minor misunderstanding.


----------



## RoshanNair

Vikrant said:


> RoshanNair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoshanNair said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistanis are only good for four things:
> 
> - sexually grooming children
> - marrying their cousins
> - sponsoring terrorism around the globe
> - starting and losing wars against India
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you happen to have any statistics that details what percentage Pakistanis make among UK's child groomers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was kidding...and no, but would that really make a difference Vik? Muslim immigrants in Europe are a minority (still) and yet they're disproportionately represented in the jails for a wide range of crimes. I think the closest statistic was on Muslim rapists in Scandinavian countries, something like 90% of all rapes in Norway over the last few years have been at the hands of Muslim immigrants.
> 
> Doesn't it strike people as odd that a minority community is always in the news for this garbage?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Very interesting! I was not aware that 90% of the rapes committed in Scandinavian countries were committed by Muslims. What percentage Muslims constitute of Scandinavian population?
> 
> Do you have credible link citing those statistics?
Click to expand...


Sorry, not 90% but closer to 50%. Still fckin ridiculous.

Norway 90 of all violent rapes in Oslo committed by Muslims


----------



## RoshanNair

anotherlife said:


> Raping girls (and guys) is a standard "weapon" of warfare outside the western strip of Europe.  Ask how many Bosnian girls were raped in the 1990's because of their muslim religion.  The country of Netherlands has lost a war crime trial about it just recently, many more to follow.  HEHEHE



What makes you think people from Western Europe are somehow exempt from this barbarity? Have you read up on the rapes of Iraqi and Afghan women by western coalition forces?


----------



## Vikrant

RoshanNair said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Raping girls (and guys) is a standard "weapon" of warfare outside the western strip of Europe.  Ask how many Bosnian girls were raped in the 1990's because of their muslim religion.  The country of Netherlands has lost a war crime trial about it just recently, many more to follow.  HEHEHE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think people from Western Europe are somehow exempt from this barbarity? Have you read up on the rapes of Iraqi and Afghan women by western coalition forces?
Click to expand...


I am glad you are confused too because I was confused reading his post as well. But I guess he did not mean to say that Western Europeans were somehow superior at least that is what his clarification states. English is a damn confusing language.


----------



## RoshanNair

Vikrant said:


> RoshanNair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Raping girls (and guys) is a standard "weapon" of warfare outside the western strip of Europe.  Ask how many Bosnian girls were raped in the 1990's because of their muslim religion.  The country of Netherlands has lost a war crime trial about it just recently, many more to follow.  HEHEHE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think people from Western Europe are somehow exempt from this barbarity? Have you read up on the rapes of Iraqi and Afghan women by western coalition forces?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am glad you are confused too because I was confused reading his post as well. But I guess he did not mean to say that Western Europeans were somehow superior at least that is what his clarification states. English is a damn confusing language.
Click to expand...


Forgot to ask earlier, which state/region are you from in the Bharat Mata?


----------



## Vikrant

RoshanNair said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoshanNair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Raping girls (and guys) is a standard "weapon" of warfare outside the western strip of Europe.  Ask how many Bosnian girls were raped in the 1990's because of their muslim religion.  The country of Netherlands has lost a war crime trial about it just recently, many more to follow.  HEHEHE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think people from Western Europe are somehow exempt from this barbarity? Have you read up on the rapes of Iraqi and Afghan women by western coalition forces?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am glad you are confused too because I was confused reading his post as well. But I guess he did not mean to say that Western Europeans were somehow superior at least that is what his clarification states. English is a damn confusing language.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Forgot to ask earlier, which state/region are you from in the Bharat Mata?
Click to expand...


You are being pretty enthusiastic. I am from Assam. And, you are from Kerala. Am I correct?


----------



## Vikrant

RoshanNair said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoshanNair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoshanNair said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistanis are only good for four things:
> 
> - sexually grooming children
> - marrying their cousins
> - sponsoring terrorism around the globe
> - starting and losing wars against India
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you happen to have any statistics that details what percentage Pakistanis make among UK's child groomers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was kidding...and no, but would that really make a difference Vik? Muslim immigrants in Europe are a minority (still) and yet they're disproportionately represented in the jails for a wide range of crimes. I think the closest statistic was on Muslim rapists in Scandinavian countries, something like 90% of all rapes in Norway over the last few years have been at the hands of Muslim immigrants.
> 
> Doesn't it strike people as odd that a minority community is always in the news for this garbage?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Very interesting! I was not aware that 90% of the rapes committed in Scandinavian countries were committed by Muslims. What percentage Muslims constitute of Scandinavian population?
> 
> Do you have credible link citing those statistics?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, not 90% but closer to 50%. Still fckin ridiculous.
> 
> Norway 90 of all violent rapes in Oslo committed by Muslims
Click to expand...


What percent are they of total population?


----------



## RoshanNair

Vikrant said:


> RoshanNair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoshanNair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Raping girls (and guys) is a standard "weapon" of warfare outside the western strip of Europe.  Ask how many Bosnian girls were raped in the 1990's because of their muslim religion.  The country of Netherlands has lost a war crime trial about it just recently, many more to follow.  HEHEHE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think people from Western Europe are somehow exempt from this barbarity? Have you read up on the rapes of Iraqi and Afghan women by western coalition forces?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am glad you are confused too because I was confused reading his post as well. But I guess he did not mean to say that Western Europeans were somehow superior at least that is what his clarification states. English is a damn confusing language.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Forgot to ask earlier, which state/region are you from in the Bharat Mata?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are being pretty enthusiastic. I am from Assam. And, you are from Kerala. Am I correct?
Click to expand...


My parents are. I was born in Chicago.


----------



## RoshanNair

Vikrant said:


> RoshanNair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoshanNair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoshanNair said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistanis are only good for four things:
> 
> - sexually grooming children
> - marrying their cousins
> - sponsoring terrorism around the globe
> - starting and losing wars against India
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you happen to have any statistics that details what percentage Pakistanis make among UK's child groomers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was kidding...and no, but would that really make a difference Vik? Muslim immigrants in Europe are a minority (still) and yet they're disproportionately represented in the jails for a wide range of crimes. I think the closest statistic was on Muslim rapists in Scandinavian countries, something like 90% of all rapes in Norway over the last few years have been at the hands of Muslim immigrants.
> 
> Doesn't it strike people as odd that a minority community is always in the news for this garbage?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Very interesting! I was not aware that 90% of the rapes committed in Scandinavian countries were committed by Muslims. What percentage Muslims constitute of Scandinavian population?
> 
> Do you have credible link citing those statistics?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, not 90% but closer to 50%. Still fckin ridiculous.
> 
> Norway 90 of all violent rapes in Oslo committed by Muslims
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What percent are they of total population?
Click to expand...


2.4% according to wiki.


----------



## Vikrant

RoshanNair said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoshanNair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoshanNair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Raping girls (and guys) is a standard "weapon" of warfare outside the western strip of Europe.  Ask how many Bosnian girls were raped in the 1990's because of their muslim religion.  The country of Netherlands has lost a war crime trial about it just recently, many more to follow.  HEHEHE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think people from Western Europe are somehow exempt from this barbarity? Have you read up on the rapes of Iraqi and Afghan women by western coalition forces?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am glad you are confused too because I was confused reading his post as well. But I guess he did not mean to say that Western Europeans were somehow superior at least that is what his clarification states. English is a damn confusing language.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Forgot to ask earlier, which state/region are you from in the Bharat Mata?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are being pretty enthusiastic. I am from Assam. And, you are from Kerala. Am I correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My parents are. I was born in Chicago.
Click to expand...


Even though you were born in Chicago (U.S.A.), you do not sound ABCD


----------



## Vikrant

RoshanNair said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoshanNair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoshanNair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you happen to have any statistics that details what percentage Pakistanis make among UK's child groomers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was kidding...and no, but would that really make a difference Vik? Muslim immigrants in Europe are a minority (still) and yet they're disproportionately represented in the jails for a wide range of crimes. I think the closest statistic was on Muslim rapists in Scandinavian countries, something like 90% of all rapes in Norway over the last few years have been at the hands of Muslim immigrants.
> 
> Doesn't it strike people as odd that a minority community is always in the news for this garbage?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Very interesting! I was not aware that 90% of the rapes committed in Scandinavian countries were committed by Muslims. What percentage Muslims constitute of Scandinavian population?
> 
> Do you have credible link citing those statistics?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, not 90% but closer to 50%. Still fckin ridiculous.
> 
> Norway 90 of all violent rapes in Oslo committed by Muslims
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What percent are they of total population?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 2.4% according to wiki.
Click to expand...


In that case 50% is astronomically high. However, there is one issue with your stat. It is coming from WordPress. Anyone can post anything on WordPress. I will not consider it a credible source unless the blog was written by a bonafide member of a credible organization such as a respected university or research foundation.


----------



## Phoenall

Vikrant said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go, have fun
> 
> Office for National Statistics ONS - ONS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did not see anything there that supports your claim.
Click to expand...




Did you subscribe to the service so you can read all the reports ?


 Or did you do a search on crime rates by ethnicity and get these results

Search Results - ONS


----------



## Dogmaphobe

When I was a kid there were only a thousand or two Muslims living in Scandinavian countries. These countries had the lowest rates of rape in the world, and they also had some of the most relaxed attitudes towards sex.

 It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that certain things are inevitable when you import enormous numbers of  immigrants from primitive societies with extremely misogynistic and twisted attitudes towards  sex, and these attitudes are compounded when these immigrants have  such a sense of superiority that they regard the native population as theirs to treat as they please.

 This issue is so undeniably about the culture of the perpetrators that to try to claim it is "derailing" the thread to talk about anything actually pertinent is the stuff of an underhanded agenda implemented with full intent on squashing discussion rather than furthering it.


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> When I was a kid there were only a thousand or two Muslims living in Scandinavian countries. *These countries had the lowest rates of rape in the world*, and they also had some of the most relaxed attitudes towards sex.
> 
> It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that certain things are inevitable when you import enormous numbers of  immigrants from primitive societies with extremely misogynistic and twisted attitudes towards  sex, and these attitudes are compounded when these immigrants have  such a sense of superiority that they regard the native population as theirs to treat as they please.
> 
> This issue is so undeniably about the culture of the perpetrators that to try to claim it is "derailing" the thread to talk about anything actually pertinent is the stuff of an underhanded agenda implemented with full intent on squashing discussion rather than furthering it.



The issue, and the claims should be looked at critically. Is there a "Muslim Rape Wave" in Scandinavia?

When you were a kid (which likely is fairly close to when I was a kid) and now - *laws as to what constituted rape differed.*

For example, this article is from 2011: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/w...xtend-to-the-bedroom.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

This blog entry is from 2013 (from someone opposed to the changes occurring in the legal system regarding rape).

The difference between what constituted rape then and what constitutes rape now in Norway is huge - meaning many more acts are now legally criminalized as rape and are going to be reported.  Right then and there you have a "rape epidemic" due to a change in the legal definition of rape.  Sweden is similar in that many acts are considered "rape" in Sweden that are not elsewhere due to changes in the law and changes in how rape cases are handled.

Concurrently you have an increase in immigration from non-Western European countries.  But is correlation causation?  That's what some would have you believe.

The primary source for the so-called "Muslim rape wave" seems to be data from a report titled "_Voldtekt i den globale byen" _which provides an analysis of rape statistics in Oslo during 2010.  This is picked up by groups such as Britains BNP and sites such as Norway ALL Rapes In Past 5 Years Committed By Muslims 8220 Non-Western 8221 Immigrants Pamela Geller Atlas Shrugs which take information from limited studies, distort it,  and attempt to apply broadly across an entire nation.  The rational behind this spread is easy - nothing instills fear and hate than the possibility that barbarians are raping our women and assaulting our children and when people don't really understand statistics or critical thinking, they pick right up on it.

But what happens when you break it down?  Looking at just the Oslo report:

_The police report referred to is Voldtekt i den globale byen (Rape in the global city) which provides a detailed analysis of the rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. The report in fact shows that, of 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin while the majority – 54.2% – were of Norwegian, other European or American origin. _

_
The claim that “all rapists in Oslo are immigrants” is based exclusively on the figures for “assault rape”, i.e. rape aggravated by physical violence, a category that included only 6 of the 152 cases and 5 of the 131 identified individuals. All of those 5 individuals were indeed of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin. However, the police report adds that in other cases of assault rape, where the individual responsible was not identified and the police relied on the description provided by the victim, “8 of the perpetrators were African / dark-skinned appearance, 5 were Western / light / Nordic and 4 had an Asian appearance”. Which falls some way short of substantiating the claim that all perpetrators of aggravated rape in Oslo are of non-western origin, never mind the assertion that “Muslim immigrants” are responsible for all rapes in the city._​

_*The police report also points out that “it must be stressed that the strong over-representation of people from minority backgrounds for several types of rape can not be interpreted as meaning that foreign culture is a causal explanation of rape” and that “the statistical difference in criminal behaviour between ethnic groups disappears when controlling for socio-economic conditions”.* It concludes: “Gross generalisations that have given the impression that the rapists are only foreigners – and largely Muslim – prove inadequate and erroneous.”_

_ 
In other words, on the basis of their detailed factual analysis the Norwegian police draw exactly the opposite conclusion about rape in Oslo from that promoted in Pat Condell’s latest anti-Muslim video rant. But then, when have facts ever been of any concern to racist bigots like Condell?_​
_
So when looked at critically from a number of angles - is there even a rape epidemic at all much less one driven by Muslim immigrants in general?_


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> The issue, and the claims should be looked at critically. Is there a "Muslim Rape Wave" in Scandinavia?
> 
> When you were a kid (which likely is fairly close to when I was a kid) and now - *laws as to what constituted rape differed.*
> 
> For example, this article is from 2011: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/w...xtend-to-the-bedroom.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
> 
> This blog entry is from 2013 (from someone opposed to the changes occurring in the legal system regarding rape).
> 
> The difference between what constituted rape then and what constitutes rape now in Norway is huge - meaning many more acts are now legally criminalized as rape and are going to be reported.  Right then and there you have a "rape epidemic" due to a change in the legal definition of rape.  Sweden is similar in that many acts are considered "rape" in Sweden that are not elsewhere due to changes in the law and changes in how rape cases are handled.
> 
> Concurrently you have an increase in immigration from non-Western European countries.  But is correlation causation?  That's what some would have you believe.
> 
> The primary source for the so-called "Muslim rape wave" seems to be data from a report titled "_Voldtekt i den globale byen" _which provides an analysis of rape statistics in Oslo during 2010.  This is picked up by groups such as Britains BNP and sites such as Norway ALL Rapes In Past 5 Years Committed By Muslims 8220 Non-Western 8221 Immigrants Pamela Geller Atlas Shrugs which take information from limited studies, distort it,  and attempt to apply broadly across an entire nation.  The rational behind this spread is easy - nothing instills fear and hate than the possibility that barbarians are raping our women and assaulting our children and when people don't really understand statistics or critical thinking, they pick right up on it.
> 
> But what happens when you break it down?  Looking at just the Oslo report:
> 
> _The police report referred to is Voldtekt i den globale byen (Rape in the global city) which provides a detailed analysis of the rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. The report in fact shows that, of 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin while the majority – 54.2% – were of Norwegian, other European or American origin. _
> 
> _
> The claim that “all rapists in Oslo are immigrants” is based exclusively on the figures for “assault rape”, i.e. rape aggravated by physical violence, a category that included only 6 of the 152 cases and 5 of the 131 identified individuals. All of those 5 individuals were indeed of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin. However, the police report adds that in other cases of assault rape, where the individual responsible was not identified and the police relied on the description provided by the victim, “8 of the perpetrators were African / dark-skinned appearance, 5 were Western / light / Nordic and 4 had an Asian appearance”. Which falls some way short of substantiating the claim that all perpetrators of aggravated rape in Oslo are of non-western origin, never mind the assertion that “Muslim immigrants” are responsible for all rapes in the city._​
> 
> _*The police report also points out that “it must be stressed that the strong over-representation of people from minority backgrounds for several types of rape can not be interpreted as meaning that foreign culture is a causal explanation of rape” and that “the statistical difference in criminal behaviour between ethnic groups disappears when controlling for socio-economic conditions”.* It concludes: “Gross generalisations that have given the impression that the rapists are only foreigners – and largely Muslim – prove inadequate and erroneous.”_
> 
> _
> In other words, on the basis of their detailed factual analysis the Norwegian police draw exactly the opposite conclusion about rape in Oslo from that promoted in Pat Condell’s latest anti-Muslim video rant. But then, when have facts ever been of any concern to racist bigots like Condell?_​
> _
> So when looked at critically from a number of angles - is there even a rape epidemic at all much less one driven by Muslim immigrants in general?_



 Are you getting medical and dental with this, Coyote?  is your retirement package Sharia compliant?

   The very same phobic reaction responsible for the British offering up their children to be raped existing in the Scandinavian countries is a given. They will also look the other way and indulge in any sort of rationalization to remain true to their political correctness.

These same police responsible for the specious apologia cannot even go into certain neighborhoods, so spare me, please.

 There is truth and there are attempts to obscure the truth due to a rigidly held belief system.  I prefer the former to the latter, myself.


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> The issue, and the claims should be looked at critically. Is there a "Muslim Rape Wave" in Scandinavia?
> 
> When you were a kid (which likely is fairly close to when I was a kid) and now - *laws as to what constituted rape differed.*
> 
> For example, this article is from 2011: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/w...xtend-to-the-bedroom.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
> 
> This blog entry is from 2013 (from someone opposed to the changes occurring in the legal system regarding rape).
> 
> The difference between what constituted rape then and what constitutes rape now in Norway is huge - meaning many more acts are now legally criminalized as rape and are going to be reported.  Right then and there you have a "rape epidemic" due to a change in the legal definition of rape.  Sweden is similar in that many acts are considered "rape" in Sweden that are not elsewhere due to changes in the law and changes in how rape cases are handled.
> 
> Concurrently you have an increase in immigration from non-Western European countries.  But is correlation causation?  That's what some would have you believe.
> 
> The primary source for the so-called "Muslim rape wave" seems to be data from a report titled "_Voldtekt i den globale byen" _which provides an analysis of rape statistics in Oslo during 2010.  This is picked up by groups such as Britains BNP and sites such as Norway ALL Rapes In Past 5 Years Committed By Muslims 8220 Non-Western 8221 Immigrants Pamela Geller Atlas Shrugs which take information from limited studies, distort it,  and attempt to apply broadly across an entire nation.  The rational behind this spread is easy - nothing instills fear and hate than the possibility that barbarians are raping our women and assaulting our children and when people don't really understand statistics or critical thinking, they pick right up on it.
> 
> But what happens when you break it down?  Looking at just the Oslo report:
> 
> _The police report referred to is Voldtekt i den globale byen (Rape in the global city) which provides a detailed analysis of the rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. The report in fact shows that, of 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin while the majority – 54.2% – were of Norwegian, other European or American origin. _
> 
> _
> The claim that “all rapists in Oslo are immigrants” is based exclusively on the figures for “assault rape”, i.e. rape aggravated by physical violence, a category that included only 6 of the 152 cases and 5 of the 131 identified individuals. All of those 5 individuals were indeed of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin. However, the police report adds that in other cases of assault rape, where the individual responsible was not identified and the police relied on the description provided by the victim, “8 of the perpetrators were African / dark-skinned appearance, 5 were Western / light / Nordic and 4 had an Asian appearance”. Which falls some way short of substantiating the claim that all perpetrators of aggravated rape in Oslo are of non-western origin, never mind the assertion that “Muslim immigrants” are responsible for all rapes in the city._​
> 
> _*The police report also points out that “it must be stressed that the strong over-representation of people from minority backgrounds for several types of rape can not be interpreted as meaning that foreign culture is a causal explanation of rape” and that “the statistical difference in criminal behaviour between ethnic groups disappears when controlling for socio-economic conditions”.* It concludes: “Gross generalisations that have given the impression that the rapists are only foreigners – and largely Muslim – prove inadequate and erroneous.”_
> 
> _
> In other words, on the basis of their detailed factual analysis the Norwegian police draw exactly the opposite conclusion about rape in Oslo from that promoted in Pat Condell’s latest anti-Muslim video rant. But then, when have facts ever been of any concern to racist bigots like Condell?_​
> _
> So when looked at critically from a number of angles - is there even a rape epidemic at all much less one driven by Muslim immigrants in general?_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you getting medical and dental with this, Coyote?  is your retirement package Sharia compliant?
> 
> The very same phobic reaction responsible for the British offering up their children to be raped existing in the Scandinavian countries is a given. They will also look the other way and indulge in any sort of rationalization to remain true to their political correctness.
> 
> These same police responsible for the specious apologia cannot even go into certain neighborhoods, so spare me, please.
> 
> There is truth and there are attempts to obscure the truth due to a rigidly held belief system.  I prefer the former to the latter, myself.
Click to expand...


Did you even read anything?


----------



## Vikrant

A woman forced to have sex with up to nine men a day while being held captive has revealed the horror of modern slavery in Britain - as the Home Secretary vowed to combat the issue.

UK Slavery Exposed I Didn t Want To Die


----------



## Coyote

Vikrant said:


> A woman forced to have sex with up to nine men a day while being held captive has revealed the horror of modern slavery in Britain - as the Home Secretary vowed to combat the issue.
> 
> UK Slavery Exposed I Didn t Want To Die




We had a recent situation similar to that in the US - it read like a macabre horror story with 3 women held captive for years in Cleveland: Ariel Castro kidnappings - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## Vikrant

A DJ friend of Jimmy Savile has been found guilty of using his celebrity status to groom and then rape underage girls.

Former DJ Ray Teret guilty of raping underage girls UK news The Guardian


----------



## Vikrant

Coyote said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> A woman forced to have sex with up to nine men a day while being held captive has revealed the horror of modern slavery in Britain - as the Home Secretary vowed to combat the issue.
> 
> UK Slavery Exposed I Didn t Want To Die
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We had a recent situation similar to that in the US - it read like a macabre horror story with 3 women held captive for years in Cleveland: Ariel Castro kidnappings - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


I remember that.


----------



## Coyote

What amazes me is how these things can go on literally under the noses of neighbors and other people - for years!


----------



## Vikrant

^ Something has gone wrong with law and order and attitude towards women and girls in UK. It seems like English towns and cities such as Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford and Telford had open season on young girls. 

---

sex gang that raped and trafficked British girls

Vile Somali sex gang that raped and trafficked British girls is jailed for 40 YEARS - Mirror Online


----------



## Coyote

Do you think it's really increased or are we just more aware of these things?


----------



## Vikrant

Coyote said:


> Do you think it's really increased or are we just more aware of these things?



When I say something has gone wrong. I am not talking about this second. There was a lots of cover up.


----------



## ChrisL

Eck, this stuff is horrible.  I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I was a kid there were only a thousand or two Muslims living in Scandinavian countries. *These countries had the lowest rates of rape in the world*, and they also had some of the most relaxed attitudes towards sex.
> 
> It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that certain things are inevitable when you import enormous numbers of  immigrants from primitive societies with extremely misogynistic and twisted attitudes towards  sex, and these attitudes are compounded when these immigrants have  such a sense of superiority that they regard the native population as theirs to treat as they please.
> 
> This issue is so undeniably about the culture of the perpetrators that to try to claim it is "derailing" the thread to talk about anything actually pertinent is the stuff of an underhanded agenda implemented with full intent on squashing discussion rather than furthering it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The issue, and the claims should be looked at critically. Is there a "Muslim Rape Wave" in Scandinavia?
> 
> When you were a kid (which likely is fairly close to when I was a kid) and now - *laws as to what constituted rape differed.*
> 
> For example, this article is from 2011: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/w...xtend-to-the-bedroom.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
> 
> This blog entry is from 2013 (from someone opposed to the changes occurring in the legal system regarding rape).
> 
> The difference between what constituted rape then and what constitutes rape now in Norway is huge - meaning many more acts are now legally criminalized as rape and are going to be reported.  Right then and there you have a "rape epidemic" due to a change in the legal definition of rape.  Sweden is similar in that many acts are considered "rape" in Sweden that are not elsewhere due to changes in the law and changes in how rape cases are handled.
> 
> Concurrently you have an increase in immigration from non-Western European countries.  But is correlation causation?  That's what some would have you believe.
> 
> The primary source for the so-called "Muslim rape wave" seems to be data from a report titled "_Voldtekt i den globale byen" _which provides an analysis of rape statistics in Oslo during 2010.  This is picked up by groups such as Britains BNP and sites such as Norway ALL Rapes In Past 5 Years Committed By Muslims 8220 Non-Western 8221 Immigrants Pamela Geller Atlas Shrugs which take information from limited studies, distort it,  and attempt to apply broadly across an entire nation.  The rational behind this spread is easy - nothing instills fear and hate than the possibility that barbarians are raping our women and assaulting our children and when people don't really understand statistics or critical thinking, they pick right up on it.
> 
> But what happens when you break it down?  Looking at just the Oslo report:
> 
> _The police report referred to is Voldtekt i den globale byen (Rape in the global city) which provides a detailed analysis of the rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. The report in fact shows that, of 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin while the majority – 54.2% – were of Norwegian, other European or American origin. _
> 
> _
> The claim that “all rapists in Oslo are immigrants” is based exclusively on the figures for “assault rape”, i.e. rape aggravated by physical violence, a category that included only 6 of the 152 cases and 5 of the 131 identified individuals. All of those 5 individuals were indeed of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin. However, the police report adds that in other cases of assault rape, where the individual responsible was not identified and the police relied on the description provided by the victim, “8 of the perpetrators were African / dark-skinned appearance, 5 were Western / light / Nordic and 4 had an Asian appearance”. Which falls some way short of substantiating the claim that all perpetrators of aggravated rape in Oslo are of non-western origin, never mind the assertion that “Muslim immigrants” are responsible for all rapes in the city._​
> 
> _*The police report also points out that “it must be stressed that the strong over-representation of people from minority backgrounds for several types of rape can not be interpreted as meaning that foreign culture is a causal explanation of rape” and that “the statistical difference in criminal behaviour between ethnic groups disappears when controlling for socio-economic conditions”.* It concludes: “Gross generalisations that have given the impression that the rapists are only foreigners – and largely Muslim – prove inadequate and erroneous.”_
> 
> _
> In other words, on the basis of their detailed factual analysis the Norwegian police draw exactly the opposite conclusion about rape in Oslo from that promoted in Pat Condell’s latest anti-Muslim video rant. But then, when have facts ever been of any concern to racist bigots like Condell?_​
> _
> So when looked at critically from a number of angles - is there even a rape epidemic at all much less one driven by Muslim immigrants in general?_
Click to expand...




Missing the elephant in the room aren't you as the figures try to hide the increasing numbers of rapes by immigrants. If the population of Oslo was 48% immigrant then the figures would not be alarming, but seeing as it is less than 20% then it shows the immigrants are 5 times more likely to be rapists. Just as the overall figures for Scandanavia show that immigrants are 20 times more likely to be rapists. It is all down to perceptions based on facts


----------



## Phoenall

ChrisL said:


> Eck, this stuff is horrible.  I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.




 It is the age old problem or power corrupts, ultimate power corrupts ultimately. We had a string of "sex game" deaths in the UK in the later years of last century when people were engaging in sex acts while being asphyxiated by plastic bags, ligatures and even hands. This led to accidental deaths of many high profile people taking part in these sex games. The sex abuse of children is the same thing they crave ever more dangerous acts that could result in injury because their lives are so tumultuous normally


----------



## Vikrant

ChrisL said:


> Eck, this stuff is horrible.  I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.



I think it is part of the culture there.


----------



## ChrisL

Phoenall said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eck, this stuff is horrible.  I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is the age old problem or power corrupts, ultimate power corrupts ultimately. We had a string of "sex game" deaths in the UK in the later years of last century when people were engaging in sex acts while being asphyxiated by plastic bags, ligatures and even hands. This led to accidental deaths of many high profile people taking part in these sex games. The sex abuse of children is the same thing they crave ever more dangerous acts that could result in injury because their lives are so tumultuous normally
Click to expand...


I remember when some famous actor died like that.  It was quite a few years ago and I can't remember his name.  Some people are just sick and should be locked up.


----------



## ChrisL

Vikrant said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eck, this stuff is horrible.  I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is part of the culture there.
Click to expand...


Part of the culture where?  The UK?  Hmm.  Don't think so.


----------



## Vikrant

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I was a kid there were only a thousand or two Muslims living in Scandinavian countries. *These countries had the lowest rates of rape in the world*, and they also had some of the most relaxed attitudes towards sex.
> 
> It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that certain things are inevitable when you import enormous numbers of  immigrants from primitive societies with extremely misogynistic and twisted attitudes towards  sex, and these attitudes are compounded when these immigrants have  such a sense of superiority that they regard the native population as theirs to treat as they please.
> 
> This issue is so undeniably about the culture of the perpetrators that to try to claim it is "derailing" the thread to talk about anything actually pertinent is the stuff of an underhanded agenda implemented with full intent on squashing discussion rather than furthering it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The issue, and the claims should be looked at critically. Is there a "Muslim Rape Wave" in Scandinavia?
> 
> When you were a kid (which likely is fairly close to when I was a kid) and now - *laws as to what constituted rape differed.*
> 
> For example, this article is from 2011: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/w...xtend-to-the-bedroom.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
> 
> This blog entry is from 2013 (from someone opposed to the changes occurring in the legal system regarding rape).
> 
> The difference between what constituted rape then and what constitutes rape now in Norway is huge - meaning many more acts are now legally criminalized as rape and are going to be reported.  Right then and there you have a "rape epidemic" due to a change in the legal definition of rape.  Sweden is similar in that many acts are considered "rape" in Sweden that are not elsewhere due to changes in the law and changes in how rape cases are handled.
> 
> Concurrently you have an increase in immigration from non-Western European countries.  But is correlation causation?  That's what some would have you believe.
> 
> The primary source for the so-called "Muslim rape wave" seems to be data from a report titled "_Voldtekt i den globale byen" _which provides an analysis of rape statistics in Oslo during 2010.  This is picked up by groups such as Britains BNP and sites such as Norway ALL Rapes In Past 5 Years Committed By Muslims 8220 Non-Western 8221 Immigrants Pamela Geller Atlas Shrugs which take information from limited studies, distort it,  and attempt to apply broadly across an entire nation.  The rational behind this spread is easy - nothing instills fear and hate than the possibility that barbarians are raping our women and assaulting our children and when people don't really understand statistics or critical thinking, they pick right up on it.
> 
> But what happens when you break it down?  Looking at just the Oslo report:
> 
> _The police report referred to is Voldtekt i den globale byen (Rape in the global city) which provides a detailed analysis of the rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. The report in fact shows that, of 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin while the majority – 54.2% – were of Norwegian, other European or American origin. _
> 
> _
> The claim that “all rapists in Oslo are immigrants” is based exclusively on the figures for “assault rape”, i.e. rape aggravated by physical violence, a category that included only 6 of the 152 cases and 5 of the 131 identified individuals. All of those 5 individuals were indeed of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin. However, the police report adds that in other cases of assault rape, where the individual responsible was not identified and the police relied on the description provided by the victim, “8 of the perpetrators were African / dark-skinned appearance, 5 were Western / light / Nordic and 4 had an Asian appearance”. Which falls some way short of substantiating the claim that all perpetrators of aggravated rape in Oslo are of non-western origin, never mind the assertion that “Muslim immigrants” are responsible for all rapes in the city._​
> 
> _*The police report also points out that “it must be stressed that the strong over-representation of people from minority backgrounds for several types of rape can not be interpreted as meaning that foreign culture is a causal explanation of rape” and that “the statistical difference in criminal behaviour between ethnic groups disappears when controlling for socio-economic conditions”.* It concludes: “Gross generalisations that have given the impression that the rapists are only foreigners – and largely Muslim – prove inadequate and erroneous.”_
> 
> _
> In other words, on the basis of their detailed factual analysis the Norwegian police draw exactly the opposite conclusion about rape in Oslo from that promoted in Pat Condell’s latest anti-Muslim video rant. But then, when have facts ever been of any concern to racist bigots like Condell?_​
> _
> So when looked at critically from a number of angles - is there even a rape epidemic at all much less one driven by Muslim immigrants in general?_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missing the elephant in the room aren't you as the figures try to hide the increasing numbers of rapes by immigrants. If the population of Oslo was 48% immigrant then the figures would not be alarming, but seeing as it is less than 20% then it shows the immigrants are 5 times more likely to be rapists. Just as the overall figures for Scandanavia show that immigrants are 20 times more likely to be rapists. It is all down to perceptions based on facts
Click to expand...


It seems like UK has a culture of sex with minor girls/boys. Certain immigrants from certain background simply became suppliers of that demand. So, your racism is not going to help UK. In a country where police is directed to drop charges of pedophilia against a person just because he is VIP these kind of things are bound to happen.


----------



## Vikrant

ChrisL said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eck, this stuff is horrible.  I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is part of the culture there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Part of the culture where?  The UK?  Hmm.  Don't think so.
Click to expand...


What else this thread is about? Canada?


----------



## ChrisL

Vikrant said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eck, this stuff is horrible.  I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is part of the culture there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Part of the culture where?  The UK?  Hmm.  Don't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What else this thread is about? Canada?
Click to expand...


They have laws against this stuff in the UK, no?  These people are breaking the law, and I don't believe this is a widely accepted cultural practice in the UK, or at least I hope it isn't.  Maybe this is one of the unintended consequences when your age of consent laws are too lax and when you sexualize children at too early an age?   I've read that the schools are quite liberal in their sex education teachings for young children over there.


----------



## Vikrant

ChrisL said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eck, this stuff is horrible.  I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is part of the culture there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Part of the culture where?  The UK?  Hmm.  Don't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What else this thread is about? Canada?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They have laws against this stuff in the UK, no?  These people are breaking the law, and I don't believe this is a widely accepted cultural practice in the UK, or at least I hope it isn't.  Maybe this is one of the unintended consequences when your age of consent laws are too lax and when you sexualize children at too early an age?   I've read that the schools are quite liberal in their sex education teachings for young children over there.
Click to expand...


UK is a very class oriented society. This makes certain people untouchable as far as law is concerned. If you read the stories that I have posted, you will see what I am talking about.


----------



## ChrisL

Vikrant said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eck, this stuff is horrible.  I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is part of the culture there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Part of the culture where?  The UK?  Hmm.  Don't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What else this thread is about? Canada?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They have laws against this stuff in the UK, no?  These people are breaking the law, and I don't believe this is a widely accepted cultural practice in the UK, or at least I hope it isn't.  Maybe this is one of the unintended consequences when your age of consent laws are too lax and when you sexualize children at too early an age?   I've read that the schools are quite liberal in their sex education teachings for young children over there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> UK is a very class oriented society. This makes certain people untouchable as far as law is concerned. If you read the stories that I have posted, you will see what I am talking about.
Click to expand...


That does not mean that pedophilia is an acceptable practice there, and I believe that it is not.  Now, it seems as if you are a little upset about the accusations made against some Muslims.  Well, I'm sorry if it upsets you, but it is true that in many Muslim cultures child marriage is legal and acceptable practice.


----------



## ChrisL

I think it's very important that we be honest and acknowledge that there are VAST differences between cultures here in the US and the UK, as well as most if not all 1st world countries and 3rd world countries.  We have different traditions, values and cultures.  Women in many of those cultures are still oppressed, and they start doing this while they are still children.  Women and children are just not seen as "equal" to men in these cultures.  That is just the way it is.


----------



## Phoenall

Vikrant said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I was a kid there were only a thousand or two Muslims living in Scandinavian countries. *These countries had the lowest rates of rape in the world*, and they also had some of the most relaxed attitudes towards sex.
> 
> It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that certain things are inevitable when you import enormous numbers of  immigrants from primitive societies with extremely misogynistic and twisted attitudes towards  sex, and these attitudes are compounded when these immigrants have  such a sense of superiority that they regard the native population as theirs to treat as they please.
> 
> This issue is so undeniably about the culture of the perpetrators that to try to claim it is "derailing" the thread to talk about anything actually pertinent is the stuff of an underhanded agenda implemented with full intent on squashing discussion rather than furthering it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The issue, and the claims should be looked at critically. Is there a "Muslim Rape Wave" in Scandinavia?
> 
> When you were a kid (which likely is fairly close to when I was a kid) and now - *laws as to what constituted rape differed.*
> 
> For example, this article is from 2011: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/w...xtend-to-the-bedroom.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
> 
> This blog entry is from 2013 (from someone opposed to the changes occurring in the legal system regarding rape).
> 
> The difference between what constituted rape then and what constitutes rape now in Norway is huge - meaning many more acts are now legally criminalized as rape and are going to be reported.  Right then and there you have a "rape epidemic" due to a change in the legal definition of rape.  Sweden is similar in that many acts are considered "rape" in Sweden that are not elsewhere due to changes in the law and changes in how rape cases are handled.
> 
> Concurrently you have an increase in immigration from non-Western European countries.  But is correlation causation?  That's what some would have you believe.
> 
> The primary source for the so-called "Muslim rape wave" seems to be data from a report titled "_Voldtekt i den globale byen" _which provides an analysis of rape statistics in Oslo during 2010.  This is picked up by groups such as Britains BNP and sites such as Norway ALL Rapes In Past 5 Years Committed By Muslims 8220 Non-Western 8221 Immigrants Pamela Geller Atlas Shrugs which take information from limited studies, distort it,  and attempt to apply broadly across an entire nation.  The rational behind this spread is easy - nothing instills fear and hate than the possibility that barbarians are raping our women and assaulting our children and when people don't really understand statistics or critical thinking, they pick right up on it.
> 
> But what happens when you break it down?  Looking at just the Oslo report:
> 
> _The police report referred to is Voldtekt i den globale byen (Rape in the global city) which provides a detailed analysis of the rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. The report in fact shows that, of 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin while the majority – 54.2% – were of Norwegian, other European or American origin. _
> 
> _
> The claim that “all rapists in Oslo are immigrants” is based exclusively on the figures for “assault rape”, i.e. rape aggravated by physical violence, a category that included only 6 of the 152 cases and 5 of the 131 identified individuals. All of those 5 individuals were indeed of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin. However, the police report adds that in other cases of assault rape, where the individual responsible was not identified and the police relied on the description provided by the victim, “8 of the perpetrators were African / dark-skinned appearance, 5 were Western / light / Nordic and 4 had an Asian appearance”. Which falls some way short of substantiating the claim that all perpetrators of aggravated rape in Oslo are of non-western origin, never mind the assertion that “Muslim immigrants” are responsible for all rapes in the city._​
> 
> _*The police report also points out that “it must be stressed that the strong over-representation of people from minority backgrounds for several types of rape can not be interpreted as meaning that foreign culture is a causal explanation of rape” and that “the statistical difference in criminal behaviour between ethnic groups disappears when controlling for socio-economic conditions”.* It concludes: “Gross generalisations that have given the impression that the rapists are only foreigners – and largely Muslim – prove inadequate and erroneous.”_
> 
> _
> In other words, on the basis of their detailed factual analysis the Norwegian police draw exactly the opposite conclusion about rape in Oslo from that promoted in Pat Condell’s latest anti-Muslim video rant. But then, when have facts ever been of any concern to racist bigots like Condell?_​
> _
> So when looked at critically from a number of angles - is there even a rape epidemic at all much less one driven by Muslim immigrants in general?_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missing the elephant in the room aren't you as the figures try to hide the increasing numbers of rapes by immigrants. If the population of Oslo was 48% immigrant then the figures would not be alarming, but seeing as it is less than 20% then it shows the immigrants are 5 times more likely to be rapists. Just as the overall figures for Scandanavia show that immigrants are 20 times more likely to be rapists. It is all down to perceptions based on facts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems like UK has a culture of sex with minor girls/boys. Certain immigrants from certain background simply became suppliers of that demand. So, your racism is not going to help UK. In a country where police is directed to drop charges of pedophilia against a person just because he is VIP these kind of things are bound to happen.
Click to expand...





 Yet in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan etc. the men are marrying 9 to 11 year old girls all the time, it is part of that culture to do so. It is even commanded by their religion to have sex with very young girls, so don't try and blame the British for what is happening in your culture as well.


----------



## Phoenall

ChrisL said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eck, this stuff is horrible.  I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is part of the culture there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Part of the culture where?  The UK?  Hmm.  Don't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What else this thread is about? Canada?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They have laws against this stuff in the UK, no?  These people are breaking the law, and I don't believe this is a widely accepted cultural practice in the UK, or at least I hope it isn't.  Maybe this is one of the unintended consequences when your age of consent laws are too lax and when you sexualize children at too early an age?   I've read that the schools are quite liberal in their sex education teachings for young children over there.
Click to expand...



 Yes we do and we demand that they apply equally to all British subjects, irrespective of race, creed, nationality, skin colour, religion or social status. This is why so many politicians and landed gentry are being arrested, charged and put before the courts for crimes they have committed


----------



## Dogmaphobe

ChrisL said:


> Eck, this stuff is horrible.  I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.




It is the lack of response to the mistreatment that is just as horrible.

With so many creatures such as Coyote frothing at the mouth about "Islamophobia" on a veritable witch hunt to stamp out any possibility that Muslims can ever be held accountable for what they do and to try to intimidate people into silence, an entire culture has sprung up where people have been so beaten into submission by the bullying that they refuse to see what is before their very eyes. 

 It is a case of the Emperor's new clothes, where these vile things demand that others create an alternate reality and are ready to punish them lest they speak the truth.  

 Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny. Coyote and her revolting ilk do everything in their power to ensure they continue by throwing up such an impenetrable cacophony of background noise that it becomes impossible to stop them without accusations of racism.


----------



## Len62

ChrisL said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eck, this stuff is horrible.  I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is part of the culture there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Part of the culture where?  The UK?  Hmm.  Don't think so.
Click to expand...


      _______________________________________________________

You could  trying googling phoenall's claim   about  ##"sex game" deaths in the UK ##

and read the results  !!

Phoenall probably uses more Extreme sites to satisfy his '*Research'    *sites that most normal people wouldn't touch with a barge pole  or believe   !


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I was a kid there were only a thousand or two Muslims living in Scandinavian countries. *These countries had the lowest rates of rape in the world*, and they also had some of the most relaxed attitudes towards sex.
> 
> It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that certain things are inevitable when you import enormous numbers of  immigrants from primitive societies with extremely misogynistic and twisted attitudes towards  sex, and these attitudes are compounded when these immigrants have  such a sense of superiority that they regard the native population as theirs to treat as they please.
> 
> This issue is so undeniably about the culture of the perpetrators that to try to claim it is "derailing" the thread to talk about anything actually pertinent is the stuff of an underhanded agenda implemented with full intent on squashing discussion rather than furthering it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The issue, and the claims should be looked at critically. Is there a "Muslim Rape Wave" in Scandinavia?
> 
> When you were a kid (which likely is fairly close to when I was a kid) and now - *laws as to what constituted rape differed.*
> 
> For example, this article is from 2011: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/w...xtend-to-the-bedroom.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
> 
> This blog entry is from 2013 (from someone opposed to the changes occurring in the legal system regarding rape).
> 
> The difference between what constituted rape then and what constitutes rape now in Norway is huge - meaning many more acts are now legally criminalized as rape and are going to be reported.  Right then and there you have a "rape epidemic" due to a change in the legal definition of rape.  Sweden is similar in that many acts are considered "rape" in Sweden that are not elsewhere due to changes in the law and changes in how rape cases are handled.
> 
> Concurrently you have an increase in immigration from non-Western European countries.  But is correlation causation?  That's what some would have you believe.
> 
> The primary source for the so-called "Muslim rape wave" seems to be data from a report titled "_Voldtekt i den globale byen" _which provides an analysis of rape statistics in Oslo during 2010.  This is picked up by groups such as Britains BNP and sites such as Norway ALL Rapes In Past 5 Years Committed By Muslims 8220 Non-Western 8221 Immigrants Pamela Geller Atlas Shrugs which take information from limited studies, distort it,  and attempt to apply broadly across an entire nation.  The rational behind this spread is easy - nothing instills fear and hate than the possibility that barbarians are raping our women and assaulting our children and when people don't really understand statistics or critical thinking, they pick right up on it.
> 
> But what happens when you break it down?  Looking at just the Oslo report:
> 
> _The police report referred to is Voldtekt i den globale byen (Rape in the global city) which provides a detailed analysis of the rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. The report in fact shows that, of 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin while the majority – 54.2% – were of Norwegian, other European or American origin. _
> 
> _
> The claim that “all rapists in Oslo are immigrants” is based exclusively on the figures for “assault rape”, i.e. rape aggravated by physical violence, a category that included only 6 of the 152 cases and 5 of the 131 identified individuals. All of those 5 individuals were indeed of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin. However, the police report adds that in other cases of assault rape, where the individual responsible was not identified and the police relied on the description provided by the victim, “8 of the perpetrators were African / dark-skinned appearance, 5 were Western / light / Nordic and 4 had an Asian appearance”. Which falls some way short of substantiating the claim that all perpetrators of aggravated rape in Oslo are of non-western origin, never mind the assertion that “Muslim immigrants” are responsible for all rapes in the city._​
> 
> _*The police report also points out that “it must be stressed that the strong over-representation of people from minority backgrounds for several types of rape can not be interpreted as meaning that foreign culture is a causal explanation of rape” and that “the statistical difference in criminal behaviour between ethnic groups disappears when controlling for socio-economic conditions”.* It concludes: “Gross generalisations that have given the impression that the rapists are only foreigners – and largely Muslim – prove inadequate and erroneous.”_
> 
> _
> In other words, on the basis of their detailed factual analysis the Norwegian police draw exactly the opposite conclusion about rape in Oslo from that promoted in Pat Condell’s latest anti-Muslim video rant. But then, when have facts ever been of any concern to racist bigots like Condell?_​
> _
> So when looked at critically from a number of angles - is there even a rape epidemic at all much less one driven by Muslim immigrants in general?_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missing the elephant in the room aren't you as the figures try to hide the increasing numbers of rapes by immigrants. If the population of Oslo was 48% immigrant then the figures would not be alarming, but seeing as it is less than 20% then it shows the immigrants are 5 times more likely to be rapists. Just as the overall figures for Scandanavia show that immigrants are 20 times more likely to be rapists. It is all down to perceptions based on facts
Click to expand...


The elephant in the room is the deliberate misrepresentation of the facts.  Did you not read anything?


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eck, this stuff is horrible.  I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is the lack of response to the mistreatment that is just as horrible.
Click to expand...


Agree.  It's the cover up and the way this has been allowed to go unchanged for so many years largely because the people involved are VIP's.  When the coverup includes law enforcement and politicians it's particularly revolting - those are the very people who are supposed to be protecting the citizens.



> With so many creatures such as Coyote frothing at the mouth about "Islamophobia" on a veritable witch hunt to stamp out any possibility that Muslims can ever be held accountable for what they do and to try to intimidate people into silence, an entire culture has sprung up where people have been so beaten into submission by the bullying that they refuse to see what is before their very eyes.



It's humorous the amount of headspace you give me rent free with your obsession.  Islamophobia is like anti-semitism and it lends itself to witch hunts and a complete disregard for rational discourse.  For example - this - what occurred in Rotherham.

The people running the ring and supplying the victims to perverts were mostly Pakistani.  Criticism was rightly levied at the police for being reluctant to pursue this fully for fear of being charged with racism.  That has definately got to change - crimes like this should not be in anyway affect by PC in terms of who is questioned or pursued.

The real racism is people who use this and insist it's a "Muslim pedophile epidemic" and a "Muslim problem".  As if Muslims around the world are identical regardless of culture.  In this case the perpetrators were almost overwelmingly Pakistani.  Just one of many Muslim immigrant groups in the UK and in numbers hardly representative of Pakistani's as a whole.  What they are is criminals.



> It is a case of the Emperor's new clothes, where these vile things demand that others create an alternate reality and are ready to punish them lest they speak the truth.



Telling the truth is not an "alternate reality" and insisting on rationality is hardly vile.  Your racism doesn't explain what seems to be a long standing British attitude in looking the other way when the perverts are VIP's.  It doesn't explain many of these other incidents coming to light that do not involve Muslims.  By painting it as a Muslim problem you are chopping off most of the real issue.  Is your real focus and concern on child abuse or is it on Muslims?



> Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny. Coyote and her revolting ilk do everything in their power to ensure they continue by throwing up such an impenetrable cacophony of background noise that it becomes impossible to stop them without accusations of racism.



You are now descending into the realm of Stupid.  "Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny"?  Really now?  The men involved in these activities are largely doing it for money.  Human trafficking is a HUGE problem AROUND THE WORLD.  Or have you not realized that?  Modern media makes it easier for people to engage in it and profit from it.  Your silly statement doesn't even begin to explain how many of the "customers" abusing these children are not even of Pakistani origin.  Can you be any more racist?


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I was a kid there were only a thousand or two Muslims living in Scandinavian countries. *These countries had the lowest rates of rape in the world*, and they also had some of the most relaxed attitudes towards sex.
> 
> It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that certain things are inevitable when you import enormous numbers of  immigrants from primitive societies with extremely misogynistic and twisted attitudes towards  sex, and these attitudes are compounded when these immigrants have  such a sense of superiority that they regard the native population as theirs to treat as they please.
> 
> This issue is so undeniably about the culture of the perpetrators that to try to claim it is "derailing" the thread to talk about anything actually pertinent is the stuff of an underhanded agenda implemented with full intent on squashing discussion rather than furthering it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The issue, and the claims should be looked at critically. Is there a "Muslim Rape Wave" in Scandinavia?
> 
> When you were a kid (which likely is fairly close to when I was a kid) and now - *laws as to what constituted rape differed.*
> 
> For example, this article is from 2011: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/w...xtend-to-the-bedroom.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
> 
> This blog entry is from 2013 (from someone opposed to the changes occurring in the legal system regarding rape).
> 
> The difference between what constituted rape then and what constitutes rape now in Norway is huge - meaning many more acts are now legally criminalized as rape and are going to be reported.  Right then and there you have a "rape epidemic" due to a change in the legal definition of rape.  Sweden is similar in that many acts are considered "rape" in Sweden that are not elsewhere due to changes in the law and changes in how rape cases are handled.
> 
> Concurrently you have an increase in immigration from non-Western European countries.  But is correlation causation?  That's what some would have you believe.
> 
> The primary source for the so-called "Muslim rape wave" seems to be data from a report titled "_Voldtekt i den globale byen" _which provides an analysis of rape statistics in Oslo during 2010.  This is picked up by groups such as Britains BNP and sites such as Norway ALL Rapes In Past 5 Years Committed By Muslims 8220 Non-Western 8221 Immigrants Pamela Geller Atlas Shrugs which take information from limited studies, distort it,  and attempt to apply broadly across an entire nation.  The rational behind this spread is easy - nothing instills fear and hate than the possibility that barbarians are raping our women and assaulting our children and when people don't really understand statistics or critical thinking, they pick right up on it.
> 
> But what happens when you break it down?  Looking at just the Oslo report:
> 
> _The police report referred to is Voldtekt i den globale byen (Rape in the global city) which provides a detailed analysis of the rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. The report in fact shows that, of 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin while the majority – 54.2% – were of Norwegian, other European or American origin. _
> 
> _
> The claim that “all rapists in Oslo are immigrants” is based exclusively on the figures for “assault rape”, i.e. rape aggravated by physical violence, a category that included only 6 of the 152 cases and 5 of the 131 identified individuals. All of those 5 individuals were indeed of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin. However, the police report adds that in other cases of assault rape, where the individual responsible was not identified and the police relied on the description provided by the victim, “8 of the perpetrators were African / dark-skinned appearance, 5 were Western / light / Nordic and 4 had an Asian appearance”. Which falls some way short of substantiating the claim that all perpetrators of aggravated rape in Oslo are of non-western origin, never mind the assertion that “Muslim immigrants” are responsible for all rapes in the city._​
> 
> _*The police report also points out that “it must be stressed that the strong over-representation of people from minority backgrounds for several types of rape can not be interpreted as meaning that foreign culture is a causal explanation of rape” and that “the statistical difference in criminal behaviour between ethnic groups disappears when controlling for socio-economic conditions”.* It concludes: “Gross generalisations that have given the impression that the rapists are only foreigners – and largely Muslim – prove inadequate and erroneous.”_
> 
> _
> In other words, on the basis of their detailed factual analysis the Norwegian police draw exactly the opposite conclusion about rape in Oslo from that promoted in Pat Condell’s latest anti-Muslim video rant. But then, when have facts ever been of any concern to racist bigots like Condell?_​
> _
> So when looked at critically from a number of angles - is there even a rape epidemic at all much less one driven by Muslim immigrants in general?_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missing the elephant in the room aren't you as the figures try to hide the increasing numbers of rapes by immigrants. If the population of Oslo was 48% immigrant then the figures would not be alarming, but seeing as it is less than 20% then it shows the immigrants are 5 times more likely to be rapists. Just as the overall figures for Scandanavia show that immigrants are 20 times more likely to be rapists. It is all down to perceptions based on facts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems like UK has a culture of sex with minor girls/boys. Certain immigrants from certain background simply became suppliers of that demand. So, your racism is not going to help UK. In a country where police is directed to drop charges of pedophilia against a person just because he is VIP these kind of things are bound to happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Yet in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan etc. the men are marrying 9 to 11 year old girls all the time, it is part of that culture to do so*. It is even commanded by their religion to have sex with very young girls, so don't try and blame the British for what is happening in your culture as well.
Click to expand...


All the time?  I'd like to see some stats on that 9-11 yr old range.

Granted - child marriages are a scrouge in many societies.  Religion can play a part in it but it is also heavily driven by economic factors.  Girl children are not regarded as having much value, and as a result families choose to marry them off rather than educate them.  Economic conditions are a HUGE driving factor with poor people marrying daughters off to settle debts or have one less mouth to feed.  The fate of child brides is usually dismal.

However, your claim that 9 and 11 year olds are married off "all the time" is a bit off as is your claim that it is widely accepted.  It is more common in some areas than others and in less educated, backwards rural areas than in the more educated communities.  Child marriages occur among Muslims, Hindus and Christians in those cultures.  Education, economic opportunities and convincing people that there is value in educating their girl children is key to putting an end to this.

Child Brides - Child Marriage What We Know . NOW PBS


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eck, this stuff is horrible.  I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is the lack of response to the mistreatment that is just as horrible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree.  It's the cover up and the way this has been allowed to go unchanged for so many years largely because the people involved are VIP's.  When the coverup includes law enforcement and politicians it's particularly revolting - those are the very people who are supposed to be protecting the citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With so many creatures such as Coyote frothing at the mouth about "Islamophobia" on a veritable witch hunt to stamp out any possibility that Muslims can ever be held accountable for what they do and to try to intimidate people into silence, an entire culture has sprung up where people have been so beaten into submission by the bullying that they refuse to see what is before their very eyes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's humorous the amount of headspace you give me rent free with your obsession.  Islamophobia is like anti-semitism and it lends itself to witch hunts and a complete disregard for rational discourse.  For example - this - what occurred in Rotherham.
> 
> The people running the ring and supplying the victims to perverts were mostly Pakistani.  Criticism was rightly levied at the police for being reluctant to pursue this fully for fear of being charged with racism.  That has definately got to change - crimes like this should not be in anyway affect by PC in terms of who is questioned or pursued.
> 
> The real racism is people who use this and insist it's a "Muslim pedophile epidemic" and a "Muslim problem".  As if Muslims around the world are identical regardless of culture.  In this case the perpetrators were almost overwelmingly Pakistani.  Just one of many Muslim immigrant groups in the UK and in numbers hardly representative of Pakistani's as a whole.  What they are is criminals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a case of the Emperor's new clothes, where these vile things demand that others create an alternate reality and are ready to punish them lest they speak the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Telling the truth is not an "alternate reality" and insisting on rationality is hardly vile.  Your racism doesn't explain what seems to be a long standing British attitude in looking the other way when the perverts are VIP's.  It doesn't explain many of these other incidents coming to light that do not involve Muslims.  By painting it as a Muslim problem you are chopping off most of the real issue.  Is your real focus and concern on child abuse or is it on Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny. Coyote and her revolting ilk do everything in their power to ensure they continue by throwing up such an impenetrable cacophony of background noise that it becomes impossible to stop them without accusations of racism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are now descending into the realm of Stupid.  "Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny"?  Really now?  The men involved in these activities are largely doing it for money.  Human trafficking is a HUGE problem AROUND THE WORLD.  Or have you not realized that?  Modern media makes it easier for people to engage in it and profit from it.  Your silly statement doesn't even begin to explain how many of the "customers" abusing these children are not even of Pakistani origin.  Can you be any more racist?
Click to expand...



It's downright Pavlovian with you people.

Just keep yelling "racist" at the top of your lungs over and over again in order to create that political climate where it is overlooked.

Even more so when you can achieve a position of authority so as to facilitate the intimidation necessary to further these aims.


----------



## Coyote

Vikrant said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eck, this stuff is horrible.  I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is part of the culture there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Part of the culture where?  The UK?  Hmm.  Don't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What else this thread is about? Canada?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They have laws against this stuff in the UK, no?  These people are breaking the law, and I don't believe this is a widely accepted cultural practice in the UK, or at least I hope it isn't.  Maybe this is one of the unintended consequences when your age of consent laws are too lax and when you sexualize children at too early an age?   I've read that the schools are quite liberal in their sex education teachings for young children over there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *UK is a very class oriented society. This makes certain people untouchable as far as law is concerned*. If you read the stories that I have posted, you will see what I am talking about.
Click to expand...


Exactly - I agree.  I don't think that it is an issue of the UK having a culture of child molestation but rather a well ingrained culture of those who are "untouchable" and the law is reluctant to pursue them.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is part of the culture there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Part of the culture where?  The UK?  Hmm.  Don't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What else this thread is about? Canada?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They have laws against this stuff in the UK, no?  These people are breaking the law, and I don't believe this is a widely accepted cultural practice in the UK, or at least I hope it isn't.  Maybe this is one of the unintended consequences when your age of consent laws are too lax and when you sexualize children at too early an age?   I've read that the schools are quite liberal in their sex education teachings for young children over there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> UK is a very class oriented society. This makes certain people untouchable as far as law is concerned. If you read the stories that I have posted, you will see what I am talking about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That does not mean that pedophilia is an acceptable practice there, and I believe that it is not.  Now, it seems as if you are a little upset about the accusations made against some Muslims.  Well, I'm sorry if it upsets you, but it is true that in many Muslim cultures child marriage is legal and acceptable practice.
Click to expand...


Child marriages occur in MANY cultures and the age of marriage varies around the world. For example - going by this (legal age of marriage) - Minimum Legal Age to Marry - Women - look at the countries where there are very young legal ages.

Only 3 countries have no minimum age.

When you look at the chart listed here - the countries with the highest rates of child marriages include a variety of religions but almost all are very poor or wracked by violence (early marriage is also used as a means of avoiding rape).


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eck, this stuff is horrible.  I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is the lack of response to the mistreatment that is just as horrible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree.  It's the cover up and the way this has been allowed to go unchanged for so many years largely because the people involved are VIP's.  When the coverup includes law enforcement and politicians it's particularly revolting - those are the very people who are supposed to be protecting the citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With so many creatures such as Coyote frothing at the mouth about "Islamophobia" on a veritable witch hunt to stamp out any possibility that Muslims can ever be held accountable for what they do and to try to intimidate people into silence, an entire culture has sprung up where people have been so beaten into submission by the bullying that they refuse to see what is before their very eyes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's humorous the amount of headspace you give me rent free with your obsession.  Islamophobia is like anti-semitism and it lends itself to witch hunts and a complete disregard for rational discourse.  For example - this - what occurred in Rotherham.
> 
> The people running the ring and supplying the victims to perverts were mostly Pakistani.  Criticism was rightly levied at the police for being reluctant to pursue this fully for fear of being charged with racism.  That has definately got to change - crimes like this should not be in anyway affect by PC in terms of who is questioned or pursued.
> 
> The real racism is people who use this and insist it's a "Muslim pedophile epidemic" and a "Muslim problem".  As if Muslims around the world are identical regardless of culture.  In this case the perpetrators were almost overwelmingly Pakistani.  Just one of many Muslim immigrant groups in the UK and in numbers hardly representative of Pakistani's as a whole.  What they are is criminals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a case of the Emperor's new clothes, where these vile things demand that others create an alternate reality and are ready to punish them lest they speak the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Telling the truth is not an "alternate reality" and insisting on rationality is hardly vile.  Your racism doesn't explain what seems to be a long standing British attitude in looking the other way when the perverts are VIP's.  It doesn't explain many of these other incidents coming to light that do not involve Muslims.  By painting it as a Muslim problem you are chopping off most of the real issue.  Is your real focus and concern on child abuse or is it on Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny. Coyote and her revolting ilk do everything in their power to ensure they continue by throwing up such an impenetrable cacophony of background noise that it becomes impossible to stop them without accusations of racism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are now descending into the realm of Stupid.  "Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny"?  Really now?  The men involved in these activities are largely doing it for money.  Human trafficking is a HUGE problem AROUND THE WORLD.  Or have you not realized that?  Modern media makes it easier for people to engage in it and profit from it.  Your silly statement doesn't even begin to explain how many of the "customers" abusing these children are not even of Pakistani origin.  Can you be any more racist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's downright Pavlovian with you people.
> 
> Just keep yelling "racist" at the top of your lungs over and over again in order to create that political climate where it is overlooked.
> 
> Even more so when you can achieve a position of authority so as to facilitate the intimidation necessary to further these aims.
Click to expand...


So you have nothing to say about any of the points made?


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> I think it's very important that we be honest and acknowledge that there are VAST differences between cultures here in the US and the UK, as well as most if not all 1st world countries and 3rd world countries.  We have different traditions, values and cultures.  Women in many of those cultures are still oppressed, and they start doing this while they are still children.  Women and children are just not seen as "equal" to men in these cultures.  That is just the way it is.



I agree.  But not only are there vast differences in the cultural attitudes towards women and children but there are vast differences in the levels of poverty, violence, instability and corruption that drive cultural attitudes or prevent them from enlightenment.  Just one example - that of child labor, an issue that recently was spotlighted with the 2014 Nobel Peace Prize Winner:
Nobel Peace Prize Boosts Battle to End Child Labor Human Rights Watch

Child labor raises complex questions - how do you end it when you are dealing with families so poor that every child is needed to bring in an income so the family can survive?  When you are dealing with countries that have no social safety nets like we are accustomed to and educating your child costs money (ours is free)?  In a sense too - these issues also drive things like child marriages and encourage the casually brutal attitudes towards women and children who are seen as objects to be owned, bartered or traded or sold into sexual slavery.  Education increases value and until people in those areas realize that their girls should be educated and that educating their girls can return wealth just as much as educating their boys -  not much will change.  But that is really only the tip of the iceberg.  Easier said then done


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I was a kid there were only a thousand or two Muslims living in Scandinavian countries. *These countries had the lowest rates of rape in the world*, and they also had some of the most relaxed attitudes towards sex.
> 
> It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that certain things are inevitable when you import enormous numbers of  immigrants from primitive societies with extremely misogynistic and twisted attitudes towards  sex, and these attitudes are compounded when these immigrants have  such a sense of superiority that they regard the native population as theirs to treat as they please.
> 
> This issue is so undeniably about the culture of the perpetrators that to try to claim it is "derailing" the thread to talk about anything actually pertinent is the stuff of an underhanded agenda implemented with full intent on squashing discussion rather than furthering it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The issue, and the claims should be looked at critically. Is there a "Muslim Rape Wave" in Scandinavia?
> 
> When you were a kid (which likely is fairly close to when I was a kid) and now - *laws as to what constituted rape differed.*
> 
> For example, this article is from 2011: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/w...xtend-to-the-bedroom.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
> 
> This blog entry is from 2013 (from someone opposed to the changes occurring in the legal system regarding rape).
> 
> The difference between what constituted rape then and what constitutes rape now in Norway is huge - meaning many more acts are now legally criminalized as rape and are going to be reported.  Right then and there you have a "rape epidemic" due to a change in the legal definition of rape.  Sweden is similar in that many acts are considered "rape" in Sweden that are not elsewhere due to changes in the law and changes in how rape cases are handled.
> 
> Concurrently you have an increase in immigration from non-Western European countries.  But is correlation causation?  That's what some would have you believe.
> 
> The primary source for the so-called "Muslim rape wave" seems to be data from a report titled "_Voldtekt i den globale byen" _which provides an analysis of rape statistics in Oslo during 2010.  This is picked up by groups such as Britains BNP and sites such as Norway ALL Rapes In Past 5 Years Committed By Muslims 8220 Non-Western 8221 Immigrants Pamela Geller Atlas Shrugs which take information from limited studies, distort it,  and attempt to apply broadly across an entire nation.  The rational behind this spread is easy - nothing instills fear and hate than the possibility that barbarians are raping our women and assaulting our children and when people don't really understand statistics or critical thinking, they pick right up on it.
> 
> But what happens when you break it down?  Looking at just the Oslo report:
> 
> _The police report referred to is Voldtekt i den globale byen (Rape in the global city) which provides a detailed analysis of the rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. The report in fact shows that, of 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin while the majority – 54.2% – were of Norwegian, other European or American origin. _
> 
> _
> The claim that “all rapists in Oslo are immigrants” is based exclusively on the figures for “assault rape”, i.e. rape aggravated by physical violence, a category that included only 6 of the 152 cases and 5 of the 131 identified individuals. All of those 5 individuals were indeed of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin. However, the police report adds that in other cases of assault rape, where the individual responsible was not identified and the police relied on the description provided by the victim, “8 of the perpetrators were African / dark-skinned appearance, 5 were Western / light / Nordic and 4 had an Asian appearance”. Which falls some way short of substantiating the claim that all perpetrators of aggravated rape in Oslo are of non-western origin, never mind the assertion that “Muslim immigrants” are responsible for all rapes in the city._​
> 
> _*The police report also points out that “it must be stressed that the strong over-representation of people from minority backgrounds for several types of rape can not be interpreted as meaning that foreign culture is a causal explanation of rape” and that “the statistical difference in criminal behaviour between ethnic groups disappears when controlling for socio-economic conditions”.* It concludes: “Gross generalisations that have given the impression that the rapists are only foreigners – and largely Muslim – prove inadequate and erroneous.”_
> 
> _
> In other words, on the basis of their detailed factual analysis the Norwegian police draw exactly the opposite conclusion about rape in Oslo from that promoted in Pat Condell’s latest anti-Muslim video rant. But then, when have facts ever been of any concern to racist bigots like Condell?_​
> _
> So when looked at critically from a number of angles - is there even a rape epidemic at all much less one driven by Muslim immigrants in general?_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missing the elephant in the room aren't you as the figures try to hide the increasing numbers of rapes by immigrants. If the population of Oslo was 48% immigrant then the figures would not be alarming, but seeing as it is less than 20% then it shows the immigrants are 5 times more likely to be rapists. Just as the overall figures for Scandanavia show that immigrants are 20 times more likely to be rapists. It is all down to perceptions based on facts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The elephant in the room is the deliberate misrepresentation of the facts.  Did you not read anything?
Click to expand...





 Do you, or do you not see the world as it really is watching it through your rose tinted spectacles from your ivory tower. There is no deliberate ,misrepresentation of the facts as the facts speak for themselves. In Scandanavian countries the muslim population is around 10% in total, yet the number of muslim  rapes is over 50% of the total. Care to explain why this is and how it is a misrepresentation. The facts now are that many Europeans are not reporting rapes and serious sexual assaults as it is a complete waste of time, the culprits cry racism and are allowed to walk free. Is that right or is it pandering to a minority because they issue threats of violence


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Phoenall said:


> Do you, or do you not see the world as it really is watching it through your rose tinted spectacles from your ivory tower. There is no deliberate ,misrepresentation of the facts as the facts speak for themselves. In Scandanavian countries the muslim population is around 10% in total, yet the number of muslim  rapes is over 50% of the total. Care to explain why this is and how it is a misrepresentation. The facts now are that many Europeans are not reporting rapes and serious sexual assaults as it is a complete waste of time, the culprits cry racism and are allowed to walk free. Is that right or is it pandering to a minority because they issue threats of violence




 The way I look at it is that Coyote either is or is not Muslim.  Considering the dishonest agenda here, it is impossible to tell.

 If Muslim, then all the propaganda is intentional. It is right out of the C.A.I.R.  handbook.

 If not Muslim, then Coyote is, at best, a useful idiot, motivated by the need to feel good about herself (if, indeed, female)  by this constant championing of anything to do with Islam.  Some people just need a cause no matter how stupid, destructive and misguided, and her calling people racist is a projection of her own manifest hatred of anything that is not part of her Islamic cause.  Of course, she supports all manner of vile, racist behavior as long as it is a Muslim doing it, but that doesn't stop her from seeking a sense of virtuousness by calling others racist for telling the truth.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eck, this stuff is horrible.  I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is the lack of response to the mistreatment that is just as horrible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree.  It's the cover up and the way this has been allowed to go unchanged for so many years largely because the people involved are VIP's.  When the coverup includes law enforcement and politicians it's particularly revolting - those are the very people who are supposed to be protecting the citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With so many creatures such as Coyote frothing at the mouth about "Islamophobia" on a veritable witch hunt to stamp out any possibility that Muslims can ever be held accountable for what they do and to try to intimidate people into silence, an entire culture has sprung up where people have been so beaten into submission by the bullying that they refuse to see what is before their very eyes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's humorous the amount of headspace you give me rent free with your obsession.  Islamophobia is like anti-semitism and it lends itself to witch hunts and a complete disregard for rational discourse.  For example - this - what occurred in Rotherham.
> 
> The people running the ring and supplying the victims to perverts were mostly Pakistani.  Criticism was rightly levied at the police for being reluctant to pursue this fully for fear of being charged with racism.  That has definately got to change - crimes like this should not be in anyway affect by PC in terms of who is questioned or pursued.
> 
> The real racism is people who use this and insist it's a "Muslim pedophile epidemic" and a "Muslim problem".  As if Muslims around the world are identical regardless of culture.  In this case the perpetrators were almost overwelmingly Pakistani.  Just one of many Muslim immigrant groups in the UK and in numbers hardly representative of Pakistani's as a whole.  What they are is criminals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a case of the Emperor's new clothes, where these vile things demand that others create an alternate reality and are ready to punish them lest they speak the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Telling the truth is not an "alternate reality" and insisting on rationality is hardly vile.  Your racism doesn't explain what seems to be a long standing British attitude in looking the other way when the perverts are VIP's.  It doesn't explain many of these other incidents coming to light that do not involve Muslims.  By painting it as a Muslim problem you are chopping off most of the real issue.  Is your real focus and concern on child abuse or is it on Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny. Coyote and her revolting ilk do everything in their power to ensure they continue by throwing up such an impenetrable cacophony of background noise that it becomes impossible to stop them without accusations of racism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are now descending into the realm of Stupid.  "Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny"?  Really now?  The men involved in these activities are largely doing it for money.  Human trafficking is a HUGE problem AROUND THE WORLD.  Or have you not realized that?  Modern media makes it easier for people to engage in it and profit from it.  Your silly statement doesn't even begin to explain how many of the "customers" abusing these children are not even of Pakistani origin.  Can you be any more racist?
Click to expand...





Do you live in the UK like I do, have you seen the Pakistani muslims grooming 11 year old girls and the police stood by while it goes on. Have you been threatened by the police and social services when you complain about the grooming and rape, then faced muslim gangs threatening you with violence. It is not done for money at all, it is done purely out of racism and hatred as a form of terrorism. It is showing the people that Pakistani muslims are superior to them and have the government in their pockets. Now the people are fighting back and are demanding the government does something to stop the abuse. All we want to see now is arrest warrants for the 250 Pakistani men that are laughing at the British justice system and bragging about getting away with murder. Yes that is what they have also done, been recorded saying so and the government released them and gave them compensation. The ones who are RACIST are those that try and defend the Pakistani muslim men and make claims that have no foundation in reality.

You want to know how many of the "customers" were not muslims, the answer is NONE. Every single one was a muslim adult male whether Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Afghani, Somali, Palestinian, Egyptian or any other muslim nationality you can think of. It is all part of the Islamic culture that see Islamic property as being muslim for ever.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I was a kid there were only a thousand or two Muslims living in Scandinavian countries. *These countries had the lowest rates of rape in the world*, and they also had some of the most relaxed attitudes towards sex.
> 
> It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that certain things are inevitable when you import enormous numbers of  immigrants from primitive societies with extremely misogynistic and twisted attitudes towards  sex, and these attitudes are compounded when these immigrants have  such a sense of superiority that they regard the native population as theirs to treat as they please.
> 
> This issue is so undeniably about the culture of the perpetrators that to try to claim it is "derailing" the thread to talk about anything actually pertinent is the stuff of an underhanded agenda implemented with full intent on squashing discussion rather than furthering it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The issue, and the claims should be looked at critically. Is there a "Muslim Rape Wave" in Scandinavia?
> 
> When you were a kid (which likely is fairly close to when I was a kid) and now - *laws as to what constituted rape differed.*
> 
> For example, this article is from 2011: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/w...xtend-to-the-bedroom.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
> 
> This blog entry is from 2013 (from someone opposed to the changes occurring in the legal system regarding rape).
> 
> The difference between what constituted rape then and what constitutes rape now in Norway is huge - meaning many more acts are now legally criminalized as rape and are going to be reported.  Right then and there you have a "rape epidemic" due to a change in the legal definition of rape.  Sweden is similar in that many acts are considered "rape" in Sweden that are not elsewhere due to changes in the law and changes in how rape cases are handled.
> 
> Concurrently you have an increase in immigration from non-Western European countries.  But is correlation causation?  That's what some would have you believe.
> 
> The primary source for the so-called "Muslim rape wave" seems to be data from a report titled "_Voldtekt i den globale byen" _which provides an analysis of rape statistics in Oslo during 2010.  This is picked up by groups such as Britains BNP and sites such as Norway ALL Rapes In Past 5 Years Committed By Muslims 8220 Non-Western 8221 Immigrants Pamela Geller Atlas Shrugs which take information from limited studies, distort it,  and attempt to apply broadly across an entire nation.  The rational behind this spread is easy - nothing instills fear and hate than the possibility that barbarians are raping our women and assaulting our children and when people don't really understand statistics or critical thinking, they pick right up on it.
> 
> But what happens when you break it down?  Looking at just the Oslo report:
> 
> _The police report referred to is Voldtekt i den globale byen (Rape in the global city) which provides a detailed analysis of the rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. The report in fact shows that, of 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin while the majority – 54.2% – were of Norwegian, other European or American origin. _
> 
> _
> The claim that “all rapists in Oslo are immigrants” is based exclusively on the figures for “assault rape”, i.e. rape aggravated by physical violence, a category that included only 6 of the 152 cases and 5 of the 131 identified individuals. All of those 5 individuals were indeed of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin. However, the police report adds that in other cases of assault rape, where the individual responsible was not identified and the police relied on the description provided by the victim, “8 of the perpetrators were African / dark-skinned appearance, 5 were Western / light / Nordic and 4 had an Asian appearance”. Which falls some way short of substantiating the claim that all perpetrators of aggravated rape in Oslo are of non-western origin, never mind the assertion that “Muslim immigrants” are responsible for all rapes in the city._​
> 
> _*The police report also points out that “it must be stressed that the strong over-representation of people from minority backgrounds for several types of rape can not be interpreted as meaning that foreign culture is a causal explanation of rape” and that “the statistical difference in criminal behaviour between ethnic groups disappears when controlling for socio-economic conditions”.* It concludes: “Gross generalisations that have given the impression that the rapists are only foreigners – and largely Muslim – prove inadequate and erroneous.”_
> 
> _
> In other words, on the basis of their detailed factual analysis the Norwegian police draw exactly the opposite conclusion about rape in Oslo from that promoted in Pat Condell’s latest anti-Muslim video rant. But then, when have facts ever been of any concern to racist bigots like Condell?_​
> _
> So when looked at critically from a number of angles - is there even a rape epidemic at all much less one driven by Muslim immigrants in general?_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missing the elephant in the room aren't you as the figures try to hide the increasing numbers of rapes by immigrants. If the population of Oslo was 48% immigrant then the figures would not be alarming, but seeing as it is less than 20% then it shows the immigrants are 5 times more likely to be rapists. Just as the overall figures for Scandanavia show that immigrants are 20 times more likely to be rapists. It is all down to perceptions based on facts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems like UK has a culture of sex with minor girls/boys. Certain immigrants from certain background simply became suppliers of that demand. So, your racism is not going to help UK. In a country where police is directed to drop charges of pedophilia against a person just because he is VIP these kind of things are bound to happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Yet in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan etc. the men are marrying 9 to 11 year old girls all the time, it is part of that culture to do so*. It is even commanded by their religion to have sex with very young girls, so don't try and blame the British for what is happening in your culture as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All the time?  I'd like to see some stats on that 9-11 yr old range.
> 
> Granted - child marriages are a scrouge in many societies.  Religion can play a part in it but it is also heavily driven by economic factors.  Girl children are not regarded as having much value, and as a result families choose to marry them off rather than educate them.  Economic conditions are a HUGE driving factor with poor people marrying daughters off to settle debts or have one less mouth to feed.  The fate of child brides is usually dismal.
> 
> However, your claim that 9 and 11 year olds are married off "all the time" is a bit off as is your claim that it is widely accepted.  It is more common in some areas than others and in less educated, backwards rural areas than in the more educated communities.  Child marriages occur among Muslims, Hindus and Christians in those cultures.  Education, economic opportunities and convincing people that there is value in educating their girl children is key to putting an end to this.
> 
> Child Brides - Child Marriage What We Know . NOW PBS
Click to expand...





Contemporary Pedophilic Islamic Marriages - WikiIslam

 The Islamic faith condones pedophilia. Therefore, contemporary pedophilic Islamic marriages are common practice around the globe.

In many Islamic countries, child marriages are common practice. Girls far below the age of puberty are often forcibly married to older persons (sometimes in their 50s and later) for various personal gains by the girls' guardian or with the intention to preserve family honor by helping her avoid pre-marital sex. Pedophilic Islamic marriages are most prevalent in Pakistan and Afghanistan, followed by other countries in the Middle East and Bangladesh.[1][2] This practice may also be prevalent to a lesser extent amongst other Muslim communities, and is on the rise among the growing Muslim populations in many non-Muslim countries, such as the United Kingdom[3] and the United States



 Will this do you, or will you claim it is Zionist propaganda, seeing as the source is   "_Sahab is a former Sunni Muslim now agnostic from South Asia who joined the wiki in April 2009 and became an administrator in 2011"_


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eck, this stuff is horrible.  I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is the lack of response to the mistreatment that is just as horrible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree.  It's the cover up and the way this has been allowed to go unchanged for so many years largely because the people involved are VIP's.  When the coverup includes law enforcement and politicians it's particularly revolting - those are the very people who are supposed to be protecting the citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With so many creatures such as Coyote frothing at the mouth about "Islamophobia" on a veritable witch hunt to stamp out any possibility that Muslims can ever be held accountable for what they do and to try to intimidate people into silence, an entire culture has sprung up where people have been so beaten into submission by the bullying that they refuse to see what is before their very eyes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's humorous the amount of headspace you give me rent free with your obsession.  Islamophobia is like anti-semitism and it lends itself to witch hunts and a complete disregard for rational discourse.  For example - this - what occurred in Rotherham.
> 
> The people running the ring and supplying the victims to perverts were mostly Pakistani.  Criticism was rightly levied at the police for being reluctant to pursue this fully for fear of being charged with racism.  That has definately got to change - crimes like this should not be in anyway affect by PC in terms of who is questioned or pursued.
> 
> The real racism is people who use this and insist it's a "Muslim pedophile epidemic" and a "Muslim problem".  As if Muslims around the world are identical regardless of culture.  In this case the perpetrators were almost overwelmingly Pakistani.  Just one of many Muslim immigrant groups in the UK and in numbers hardly representative of Pakistani's as a whole.  What they are is criminals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a case of the Emperor's new clothes, where these vile things demand that others create an alternate reality and are ready to punish them lest they speak the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Telling the truth is not an "alternate reality" and insisting on rationality is hardly vile.  Your racism doesn't explain what seems to be a long standing British attitude in looking the other way when the perverts are VIP's.  It doesn't explain many of these other incidents coming to light that do not involve Muslims.  By painting it as a Muslim problem you are chopping off most of the real issue.  Is your real focus and concern on child abuse or is it on Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny. Coyote and her revolting ilk do everything in their power to ensure they continue by throwing up such an impenetrable cacophony of background noise that it becomes impossible to stop them without accusations of racism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are now descending into the realm of Stupid.  "Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny"?  Really now?  The men involved in these activities are largely doing it for money.  Human trafficking is a HUGE problem AROUND THE WORLD.  Or have you not realized that?  Modern media makes it easier for people to engage in it and profit from it.  Your silly statement doesn't even begin to explain how many of the "customers" abusing these children are not even of Pakistani origin.  Can you be any more racist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you live in the UK like I do, have you seen the Pakistani muslims grooming 11 year old girls and the police stood by while it goes on. Have you been threatened by the police and social services when you complain about the grooming and rape, then faced muslim gangs threatening you with violence. It is not done for money at all, it is done purely out of racism and hatred as a form of terrorism. It is showing the people that Pakistani muslims are superior to them and have the government in their pockets. Now the people are fighting back and are demanding the government does something to stop the abuse. All we want to see now is arrest warrants for the 250 Pakistani men that are laughing at the British justice system and bragging about getting away with murder. Yes that is what they have also done, been recorded saying so and the government released them and gave them compensation. The ones who are RACIST are those that try and defend the Pakistani muslim men and make claims that have no foundation in reality.
> 
> You want to know how many of the "customers" were not muslims, the answer is NONE. Every single one was a muslim adult male whether Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Afghani, Somali, Palestinian, Egyptian or any other muslim nationality you can think of. It is all part of the Islamic culture that see Islamic property as being muslim for ever.
Click to expand...


I don't have to "live" in the UK to have access to news.


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> The issue, and the claims should be looked at critically. Is there a "Muslim Rape Wave" in Scandinavia?
> 
> When you were a kid (which likely is fairly close to when I was a kid) and now - *laws as to what constituted rape differed.*
> 
> For example, this article is from 2011: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/w...xtend-to-the-bedroom.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
> 
> This blog entry is from 2013 (from someone opposed to the changes occurring in the legal system regarding rape).
> 
> The difference between what constituted rape then and what constitutes rape now in Norway is huge - meaning many more acts are now legally criminalized as rape and are going to be reported.  Right then and there you have a "rape epidemic" due to a change in the legal definition of rape.  Sweden is similar in that many acts are considered "rape" in Sweden that are not elsewhere due to changes in the law and changes in how rape cases are handled.
> 
> Concurrently you have an increase in immigration from non-Western European countries.  But is correlation causation?  That's what some would have you believe.
> 
> The primary source for the so-called "Muslim rape wave" seems to be data from a report titled "_Voldtekt i den globale byen" _which provides an analysis of rape statistics in Oslo during 2010.  This is picked up by groups such as Britains BNP and sites such as Norway ALL Rapes In Past 5 Years Committed By Muslims 8220 Non-Western 8221 Immigrants Pamela Geller Atlas Shrugs which take information from limited studies, distort it,  and attempt to apply broadly across an entire nation.  The rational behind this spread is easy - nothing instills fear and hate than the possibility that barbarians are raping our women and assaulting our children and when people don't really understand statistics or critical thinking, they pick right up on it.
> 
> But what happens when you break it down?  Looking at just the Oslo report:
> 
> _The police report referred to is Voldtekt i den globale byen (Rape in the global city) which provides a detailed analysis of the rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. The report in fact shows that, of 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin while the majority – 54.2% – were of Norwegian, other European or American origin. _
> 
> _
> The claim that “all rapists in Oslo are immigrants” is based exclusively on the figures for “assault rape”, i.e. rape aggravated by physical violence, a category that included only 6 of the 152 cases and 5 of the 131 identified individuals. All of those 5 individuals were indeed of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin. However, the police report adds that in other cases of assault rape, where the individual responsible was not identified and the police relied on the description provided by the victim, “8 of the perpetrators were African / dark-skinned appearance, 5 were Western / light / Nordic and 4 had an Asian appearance”. Which falls some way short of substantiating the claim that all perpetrators of aggravated rape in Oslo are of non-western origin, never mind the assertion that “Muslim immigrants” are responsible for all rapes in the city._​
> 
> _*The police report also points out that “it must be stressed that the strong over-representation of people from minority backgrounds for several types of rape can not be interpreted as meaning that foreign culture is a causal explanation of rape” and that “the statistical difference in criminal behaviour between ethnic groups disappears when controlling for socio-economic conditions”.* It concludes: “Gross generalisations that have given the impression that the rapists are only foreigners – and largely Muslim – prove inadequate and erroneous.”_
> 
> _
> In other words, on the basis of their detailed factual analysis the Norwegian police draw exactly the opposite conclusion about rape in Oslo from that promoted in Pat Condell’s latest anti-Muslim video rant. But then, when have facts ever been of any concern to racist bigots like Condell?_​
> _
> So when looked at critically from a number of angles - is there even a rape epidemic at all much less one driven by Muslim immigrants in general?_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missing the elephant in the room aren't you as the figures try to hide the increasing numbers of rapes by immigrants. If the population of Oslo was 48% immigrant then the figures would not be alarming, but seeing as it is less than 20% then it shows the immigrants are 5 times more likely to be rapists. Just as the overall figures for Scandanavia show that immigrants are 20 times more likely to be rapists. It is all down to perceptions based on facts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems like UK has a culture of sex with minor girls/boys. Certain immigrants from certain background simply became suppliers of that demand. So, your racism is not going to help UK. In a country where police is directed to drop charges of pedophilia against a person just because he is VIP these kind of things are bound to happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Yet in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan etc. the men are marrying 9 to 11 year old girls all the time, it is part of that culture to do so*. It is even commanded by their religion to have sex with very young girls, so don't try and blame the British for what is happening in your culture as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All the time?  I'd like to see some stats on that 9-11 yr old range.
> 
> Granted - child marriages are a scrouge in many societies.  Religion can play a part in it but it is also heavily driven by economic factors.  Girl children are not regarded as having much value, and as a result families choose to marry them off rather than educate them.  Economic conditions are a HUGE driving factor with poor people marrying daughters off to settle debts or have one less mouth to feed.  The fate of child brides is usually dismal.
> 
> However, your claim that 9 and 11 year olds are married off "all the time" is a bit off as is your claim that it is widely accepted.  It is more common in some areas than others and in less educated, backwards rural areas than in the more educated communities.  Child marriages occur among Muslims, Hindus and Christians in those cultures.  Education, economic opportunities and convincing people that there is value in educating their girl children is key to putting an end to this.
> 
> Child Brides - Child Marriage What We Know . NOW PBS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contemporary Pedophilic Islamic Marriages - WikiIslam
> 
> The Islamic faith condones pedophilia. Therefore, contemporary pedophilic Islamic marriages are common practice around the globe.
> 
> In many Islamic countries, child marriages are common practice. Girls far below the age of puberty are often forcibly married to older persons (sometimes in their 50s and later) for various personal gains by the girls' guardian or with the intention to preserve family honor by helping her avoid pre-marital sex. Pedophilic Islamic marriages are most prevalent in Pakistan and Afghanistan, followed by other countries in the Middle East and Bangladesh.[1][2] This practice may also be prevalent to a lesser extent amongst other Muslim communities, and is on the rise among the growing Muslim populations in many non-Muslim countries, such as the United Kingdom[3] and the United States
> 
> 
> 
> Will this do you, or will you claim it is Zionist propaganda, seeing as the source is   "_Sahab is a former Sunni Muslim now agnostic from South Asia who joined the wiki in April 2009 and became an administrator in 2011"_
Click to expand...


For a person that demands "unbiased sources" WikiIslam is about as biased as you can get.  Nice try.

What does Zionism have to do with any of this?


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I was a kid there were only a thousand or two Muslims living in Scandinavian countries. *These countries had the lowest rates of rape in the world*, and they also had some of the most relaxed attitudes towards sex.
> 
> It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that certain things are inevitable when you import enormous numbers of  immigrants from primitive societies with extremely misogynistic and twisted attitudes towards  sex, and these attitudes are compounded when these immigrants have  such a sense of superiority that they regard the native population as theirs to treat as they please.
> 
> This issue is so undeniably about the culture of the perpetrators that to try to claim it is "derailing" the thread to talk about anything actually pertinent is the stuff of an underhanded agenda implemented with full intent on squashing discussion rather than furthering it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The issue, and the claims should be looked at critically. Is there a "Muslim Rape Wave" in Scandinavia?
> 
> When you were a kid (which likely is fairly close to when I was a kid) and now - *laws as to what constituted rape differed.*
> 
> For example, this article is from 2011: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/w...xtend-to-the-bedroom.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
> 
> This blog entry is from 2013 (from someone opposed to the changes occurring in the legal system regarding rape).
> 
> The difference between what constituted rape then and what constitutes rape now in Norway is huge - meaning many more acts are now legally criminalized as rape and are going to be reported.  Right then and there you have a "rape epidemic" due to a change in the legal definition of rape.  Sweden is similar in that many acts are considered "rape" in Sweden that are not elsewhere due to changes in the law and changes in how rape cases are handled.
> 
> Concurrently you have an increase in immigration from non-Western European countries.  But is correlation causation?  That's what some would have you believe.
> 
> The primary source for the so-called "Muslim rape wave" seems to be data from a report titled "_Voldtekt i den globale byen" _which provides an analysis of rape statistics in Oslo during 2010.  This is picked up by groups such as Britains BNP and sites such as Norway ALL Rapes In Past 5 Years Committed By Muslims 8220 Non-Western 8221 Immigrants Pamela Geller Atlas Shrugs which take information from limited studies, distort it,  and attempt to apply broadly across an entire nation.  The rational behind this spread is easy - nothing instills fear and hate than the possibility that barbarians are raping our women and assaulting our children and when people don't really understand statistics or critical thinking, they pick right up on it.
> 
> But what happens when you break it down?  Looking at just the Oslo report:
> 
> _The police report referred to is Voldtekt i den globale byen (Rape in the global city) which provides a detailed analysis of the rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. The report in fact shows that, of 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin while the majority – 54.2% – were of Norwegian, other European or American origin. _
> 
> _
> The claim that “all rapists in Oslo are immigrants” is based exclusively on the figures for “assault rape”, i.e. rape aggravated by physical violence, a category that included only 6 of the 152 cases and 5 of the 131 identified individuals. All of those 5 individuals were indeed of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin. However, the police report adds that in other cases of assault rape, where the individual responsible was not identified and the police relied on the description provided by the victim, “8 of the perpetrators were African / dark-skinned appearance, 5 were Western / light / Nordic and 4 had an Asian appearance”. Which falls some way short of substantiating the claim that all perpetrators of aggravated rape in Oslo are of non-western origin, never mind the assertion that “Muslim immigrants” are responsible for all rapes in the city._​
> 
> _*The police report also points out that “it must be stressed that the strong over-representation of people from minority backgrounds for several types of rape can not be interpreted as meaning that foreign culture is a causal explanation of rape” and that “the statistical difference in criminal behaviour between ethnic groups disappears when controlling for socio-economic conditions”.* It concludes: “Gross generalisations that have given the impression that the rapists are only foreigners – and largely Muslim – prove inadequate and erroneous.”_
> 
> _
> In other words, on the basis of their detailed factual analysis the Norwegian police draw exactly the opposite conclusion about rape in Oslo from that promoted in Pat Condell’s latest anti-Muslim video rant. But then, when have facts ever been of any concern to racist bigots like Condell?_​
> _
> So when looked at critically from a number of angles - is there even a rape epidemic at all much less one driven by Muslim immigrants in general?_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missing the elephant in the room aren't you as the figures try to hide the increasing numbers of rapes by immigrants. If the population of Oslo was 48% immigrant then the figures would not be alarming, but seeing as it is less than 20% then it shows the immigrants are 5 times more likely to be rapists. Just as the overall figures for Scandanavia show that immigrants are 20 times more likely to be rapists. It is all down to perceptions based on facts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The elephant in the room is the deliberate misrepresentation of the facts.  Did you not read anything?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you, or do you not see the world as it really is watching it through your rose tinted spectacles from your ivory tower. There is no deliberate ,misrepresentation of the facts as the facts speak for themselves. In Scandanavian countries the muslim population is around 10% in total, yet the number of muslim  rapes is over 50% of the total. Care to explain why this is and how it is a misrepresentation. The facts now are that many Europeans are not reporting rapes and serious sexual assaults as it is a complete waste of time, the culprits cry racism and are allowed to walk free. Is that right or is it pandering to a minority because they issue threats of violence
Click to expand...



Care to provide some unbiased sources supporting your claims?


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you, or do you not see the world as it really is watching it through your rose tinted spectacles from your ivory tower. There is no deliberate ,misrepresentation of the facts as the facts speak for themselves. In Scandanavian countries the muslim population is around 10% in total, yet the number of muslim  rapes is over 50% of the total. Care to explain why this is and how it is a misrepresentation. The facts now are that many Europeans are not reporting rapes and serious sexual assaults as it is a complete waste of time, the culprits cry racism and are allowed to walk free. Is that right or is it pandering to a minority because they issue threats of violence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The way I look at it is that Coyote either is or is not Muslim.  Considering the dishonest agenda here, it is impossible to tell.
> 
> If Muslim, then all the propaganda is intentional. It is right out of the C.A.I.R.  handbook.
> 
> If not Muslim, then Coyote is, at best, a useful idiot, motivated by the need to feel good about herself (if, indeed, female)  by this constant championing of anything to do with Islam.  Some people just need a cause no matter how stupid, destructive and misguided, and her calling people racist is a projection of her own manifest hatred of anything that is not part of her Islamic cause.  Of course, she supports all manner of vile, racist behavior as long as it is a Muslim doing it, but that doesn't stop her from seeking a sense of virtuousness by calling others racist for telling the truth.
Click to expand...


So can you address any of the points being made in a rational manner or is that beyond your capacity?

Pedophile rings operating in the UK for years because the main violators are celebrities, politicians, doctors, policemen?  That seems a huge issue and not an Islamic issue.


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eck, this stuff is horrible.  I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is the lack of response to the mistreatment that is just as horrible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree.  It's the cover up and the way this has been allowed to go unchanged for so many years largely because the people involved are VIP's.  When the coverup includes law enforcement and politicians it's particularly revolting - those are the very people who are supposed to be protecting the citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With so many creatures such as Coyote frothing at the mouth about "Islamophobia" on a veritable witch hunt to stamp out any possibility that Muslims can ever be held accountable for what they do and to try to intimidate people into silence, an entire culture has sprung up where people have been so beaten into submission by the bullying that they refuse to see what is before their very eyes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's humorous the amount of headspace you give me rent free with your obsession.  Islamophobia is like anti-semitism and it lends itself to witch hunts and a complete disregard for rational discourse.  For example - this - what occurred in Rotherham.
> 
> The people running the ring and supplying the victims to perverts were mostly Pakistani.  Criticism was rightly levied at the police for being reluctant to pursue this fully for fear of being charged with racism.  That has definately got to change - crimes like this should not be in anyway affect by PC in terms of who is questioned or pursued.
> 
> The real racism is people who use this and insist it's a "Muslim pedophile epidemic" and a "Muslim problem".  As if Muslims around the world are identical regardless of culture.  In this case the perpetrators were almost overwelmingly Pakistani.  Just one of many Muslim immigrant groups in the UK and in numbers hardly representative of Pakistani's as a whole.  What they are is criminals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a case of the Emperor's new clothes, where these vile things demand that others create an alternate reality and are ready to punish them lest they speak the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Telling the truth is not an "alternate reality" and insisting on rationality is hardly vile.  Your racism doesn't explain what seems to be a long standing British attitude in looking the other way when the perverts are VIP's.  It doesn't explain many of these other incidents coming to light that do not involve Muslims.  By painting it as a Muslim problem you are chopping off most of the real issue.  Is your real focus and concern on child abuse or is it on Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny. Coyote and her revolting ilk do everything in their power to ensure they continue by throwing up such an impenetrable cacophony of background noise that it becomes impossible to stop them without accusations of racism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are now descending into the realm of Stupid.  "Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny"?  Really now?  The men involved in these activities are largely doing it for money.  Human trafficking is a HUGE problem AROUND THE WORLD.  Or have you not realized that?  Modern media makes it easier for people to engage in it and profit from it.  Your silly statement doesn't even begin to explain how many of the "customers" abusing these children are not even of Pakistani origin.  Can you be any more racist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you live in the UK like I do, have you seen the Pakistani muslims grooming 11 year old girls and the police stood by while it goes on. Have you been threatened by the police and social services when you complain about the grooming and rape, then faced muslim gangs threatening you with violence. It is not done for money at all, it is done purely out of racism and hatred as a form of terrorism. It is showing the people that Pakistani muslims are superior to them and have the government in their pockets. Now the people are fighting back and are demanding the government does something to stop the abuse. All we want to see now is arrest warrants for the 250 Pakistani men that are laughing at the British justice system and bragging about getting away with murder. Yes that is what they have also done, been recorded saying so and the government released them and gave them compensation. The ones who are RACIST are those that try and defend the Pakistani muslim men and make claims that have no foundation in reality.
> 
> You want to know how many of the "customers" were not muslims, the answer is NONE. Every single one was a muslim adult male whether Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Afghani, Somali, Palestinian, Egyptian or any other muslim nationality you can think of. It is all part of the Islamic culture that see Islamic property as being muslim for ever.
Click to expand...


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eck, this stuff is horrible.  I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is the lack of response to the mistreatment that is just as horrible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree.  It's the cover up and the way this has been allowed to go unchanged for so many years largely because the people involved are VIP's.  When the coverup includes law enforcement and politicians it's particularly revolting - those are the very people who are supposed to be protecting the citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With so many creatures such as Coyote frothing at the mouth about "Islamophobia" on a veritable witch hunt to stamp out any possibility that Muslims can ever be held accountable for what they do and to try to intimidate people into silence, an entire culture has sprung up where people have been so beaten into submission by the bullying that they refuse to see what is before their very eyes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's humorous the amount of headspace you give me rent free with your obsession.  Islamophobia is like anti-semitism and it lends itself to witch hunts and a complete disregard for rational discourse.  For example - this - what occurred in Rotherham.
> 
> The people running the ring and supplying the victims to perverts were mostly Pakistani.  Criticism was rightly levied at the police for being reluctant to pursue this fully for fear of being charged with racism.  That has definately got to change - crimes like this should not be in anyway affect by PC in terms of who is questioned or pursued.
> 
> The real racism is people who use this and insist it's a "Muslim pedophile epidemic" and a "Muslim problem".  As if Muslims around the world are identical regardless of culture.  In this case the perpetrators were almost overwelmingly Pakistani.  Just one of many Muslim immigrant groups in the UK and in numbers hardly representative of Pakistani's as a whole.  What they are is criminals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a case of the Emperor's new clothes, where these vile things demand that others create an alternate reality and are ready to punish them lest they speak the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Telling the truth is not an "alternate reality" and insisting on rationality is hardly vile.  Your racism doesn't explain what seems to be a long standing British attitude in looking the other way when the perverts are VIP's.  It doesn't explain many of these other incidents coming to light that do not involve Muslims.  By painting it as a Muslim problem you are chopping off most of the real issue.  Is your real focus and concern on child abuse or is it on Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny. Coyote and her revolting ilk do everything in their power to ensure they continue by throwing up such an impenetrable cacophony of background noise that it becomes impossible to stop them without accusations of racism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are now descending into the realm of Stupid.  "Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny"?  Really now?  The men involved in these activities are largely doing it for money.  Human trafficking is a HUGE problem AROUND THE WORLD.  Or have you not realized that?  Modern media makes it easier for people to engage in it and profit from it.  Your silly statement doesn't even begin to explain how many of the "customers" abusing these children are not even of Pakistani origin.  Can you be any more racist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you live in the UK like I do, have you seen the Pakistani muslims grooming 11 year old girls and the police stood by while it goes on. Have you been threatened by the police and social services when you complain about the grooming and rape, then faced muslim gangs threatening you with violence. It is not done for money at all, it is done purely out of racism and hatred as a form of terrorism. It is showing the people that Pakistani muslims are superior to them and have the government in their pockets. Now the people are fighting back and are demanding the government does something to stop the abuse. All we want to see now is arrest warrants for the 250 Pakistani men that are laughing at the British justice system and bragging about getting away with murder. Yes that is what they have also done, been recorded saying so and the government released them and gave them compensation. The ones who are RACIST are those that try and defend the Pakistani muslim men and make claims that have no foundation in reality.
> 
> You want to know how many of the "customers" were not muslims, the answer is NONE. Every single one was a muslim adult male whether Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Afghani, Somali, Palestinian, Egyptian or any other muslim nationality you can think of. It is all part of the Islamic culture that see Islamic property as being muslim for ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't have to "live" in the UK to have access to news.
Click to expand...






 And when the news is suppressed because of the pro muslim stance of many editors do you think you are getting the real news ?


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Missing the elephant in the room aren't you as the figures try to hide the increasing numbers of rapes by immigrants. If the population of Oslo was 48% immigrant then the figures would not be alarming, but seeing as it is less than 20% then it shows the immigrants are 5 times more likely to be rapists. Just as the overall figures for Scandanavia show that immigrants are 20 times more likely to be rapists. It is all down to perceptions based on facts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems like UK has a culture of sex with minor girls/boys. Certain immigrants from certain background simply became suppliers of that demand. So, your racism is not going to help UK. In a country where police is directed to drop charges of pedophilia against a person just because he is VIP these kind of things are bound to happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Yet in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan etc. the men are marrying 9 to 11 year old girls all the time, it is part of that culture to do so*. It is even commanded by their religion to have sex with very young girls, so don't try and blame the British for what is happening in your culture as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All the time?  I'd like to see some stats on that 9-11 yr old range.
> 
> Granted - child marriages are a scrouge in many societies.  Religion can play a part in it but it is also heavily driven by economic factors.  Girl children are not regarded as having much value, and as a result families choose to marry them off rather than educate them.  Economic conditions are a HUGE driving factor with poor people marrying daughters off to settle debts or have one less mouth to feed.  The fate of child brides is usually dismal.
> 
> However, your claim that 9 and 11 year olds are married off "all the time" is a bit off as is your claim that it is widely accepted.  It is more common in some areas than others and in less educated, backwards rural areas than in the more educated communities.  Child marriages occur among Muslims, Hindus and Christians in those cultures.  Education, economic opportunities and convincing people that there is value in educating their girl children is key to putting an end to this.
> 
> Child Brides - Child Marriage What We Know . NOW PBS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contemporary Pedophilic Islamic Marriages - WikiIslam
> 
> The Islamic faith condones pedophilia. Therefore, contemporary pedophilic Islamic marriages are common practice around the globe.
> 
> In many Islamic countries, child marriages are common practice. Girls far below the age of puberty are often forcibly married to older persons (sometimes in their 50s and later) for various personal gains by the girls' guardian or with the intention to preserve family honor by helping her avoid pre-marital sex. Pedophilic Islamic marriages are most prevalent in Pakistan and Afghanistan, followed by other countries in the Middle East and Bangladesh.[1][2] This practice may also be prevalent to a lesser extent amongst other Muslim communities, and is on the rise among the growing Muslim populations in many non-Muslim countries, such as the United Kingdom[3] and the United States
> 
> 
> 
> Will this do you, or will you claim it is Zionist propaganda, seeing as the source is   "_Sahab is a former Sunni Muslim now agnostic from South Asia who joined the wiki in April 2009 and became an administrator in 2011"_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For a person that demands "unbiased sources" WikiIslam is about as biased as you can get.  Nice try.
> 
> What does Zionism have to do with any of this?
Click to expand...





 Because the usual cry by those defending islam is to blame it all on the Zionists.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you, or do you not see the world as it really is watching it through your rose tinted spectacles from your ivory tower. There is no deliberate ,misrepresentation of the facts as the facts speak for themselves. In Scandanavian countries the muslim population is around 10% in total, yet the number of muslim  rapes is over 50% of the total. Care to explain why this is and how it is a misrepresentation. The facts now are that many Europeans are not reporting rapes and serious sexual assaults as it is a complete waste of time, the culprits cry racism and are allowed to walk free. Is that right or is it pandering to a minority because they issue threats of violence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The way I look at it is that Coyote either is or is not Muslim.  Considering the dishonest agenda here, it is impossible to tell.
> 
> If Muslim, then all the propaganda is intentional. It is right out of the C.A.I.R.  handbook.
> 
> If not Muslim, then Coyote is, at best, a useful idiot, motivated by the need to feel good about herself (if, indeed, female)  by this constant championing of anything to do with Islam.  Some people just need a cause no matter how stupid, destructive and misguided, and her calling people racist is a projection of her own manifest hatred of anything that is not part of her Islamic cause.  Of course, she supports all manner of vile, racist behavior as long as it is a Muslim doing it, but that doesn't stop her from seeking a sense of virtuousness by calling others racist for telling the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So can you address any of the points being made in a rational manner or is that beyond your capacity?
> 
> Pedophile rings operating in the UK for years because the main violators are celebrities, politicians, doctors, policemen?  That seems a huge issue and not an Islamic issue.
Click to expand...





 Strange that these only came to the attention of the people after the Pakistani muslim men were being arrested and charged, and the full scale of the problem was being seen. How many girls have been raped in the UK by Pakistani muslim men 2 million, 4 million or even 10 million That is the scale of the problem and because the numbers are huge people struggle to get their heads round them. The belief in the UK is that high profile celebrities are being outed to take the muslims of the radar before civil unrest starts in the UK and the muslim get a taste of their own medicine


----------



## ChrisL

Len62 said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eck, this stuff is horrible.  I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is part of the culture there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Part of the culture where?  The UK?  Hmm.  Don't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________________
> 
> You could  trying googling phoenall's claim   about  ##"sex game" deaths in the UK ##
> 
> and read the results  !!
> 
> Phoenall probably uses more Extreme sites to satisfy his '*Research'    *sites that most normal people wouldn't touch with a barge pole  or believe   !
Click to expand...


That post was addressed to Vikrant, not Phoenall.


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eck, this stuff is horrible.  I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is the lack of response to the mistreatment that is just as horrible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree.  It's the cover up and the way this has been allowed to go unchanged for so many years largely because the people involved are VIP's.  When the coverup includes law enforcement and politicians it's particularly revolting - those are the very people who are supposed to be protecting the citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With so many creatures such as Coyote frothing at the mouth about "Islamophobia" on a veritable witch hunt to stamp out any possibility that Muslims can ever be held accountable for what they do and to try to intimidate people into silence, an entire culture has sprung up where people have been so beaten into submission by the bullying that they refuse to see what is before their very eyes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's humorous the amount of headspace you give me rent free with your obsession.  Islamophobia is like anti-semitism and it lends itself to witch hunts and a complete disregard for rational discourse.  For example - this - what occurred in Rotherham.
> 
> The people running the ring and supplying the victims to perverts were mostly Pakistani.  Criticism was rightly levied at the police for being reluctant to pursue this fully for fear of being charged with racism.  That has definately got to change - crimes like this should not be in anyway affect by PC in terms of who is questioned or pursued.
> 
> The real racism is people who use this and insist it's a "Muslim pedophile epidemic" and a "Muslim problem".  As if Muslims around the world are identical regardless of culture.  In this case the perpetrators were almost overwelmingly Pakistani.  Just one of many Muslim immigrant groups in the UK and in numbers hardly representative of Pakistani's as a whole.  What they are is criminals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a case of the Emperor's new clothes, where these vile things demand that others create an alternate reality and are ready to punish them lest they speak the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Telling the truth is not an "alternate reality" and insisting on rationality is hardly vile.  Your racism doesn't explain what seems to be a long standing British attitude in looking the other way when the perverts are VIP's.  It doesn't explain many of these other incidents coming to light that do not involve Muslims.  By painting it as a Muslim problem you are chopping off most of the real issue.  Is your real focus and concern on child abuse or is it on Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny. Coyote and her revolting ilk do everything in their power to ensure they continue by throwing up such an impenetrable cacophony of background noise that it becomes impossible to stop them without accusations of racism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are now descending into the realm of Stupid.  "Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny"?  Really now?  The men involved in these activities are largely doing it for money.  Human trafficking is a HUGE problem AROUND THE WORLD.  Or have you not realized that?  Modern media makes it easier for people to engage in it and profit from it.  Your silly statement doesn't even begin to explain how many of the "customers" abusing these children are not even of Pakistani origin.  Can you be any more racist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you live in the UK like I do, have you seen the Pakistani muslims grooming 11 year old girls and the police stood by while it goes on. Have you been threatened by the police and social services when you complain about the grooming and rape, then faced muslim gangs threatening you with violence. It is not done for money at all, it is done purely out of racism and hatred as a form of terrorism. It is showing the people that Pakistani muslims are superior to them and have the government in their pockets. Now the people are fighting back and are demanding the government does something to stop the abuse. All we want to see now is arrest warrants for the 250 Pakistani men that are laughing at the British justice system and bragging about getting away with murder. Yes that is what they have also done, been recorded saying so and the government released them and gave them compensation. The ones who are RACIST are those that try and defend the Pakistani muslim men and make claims that have no foundation in reality.
> 
> You want to know how many of the "customers" were not muslims, the answer is NONE. Every single one was a muslim adult male whether Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Afghani, Somali, Palestinian, Egyptian or any other muslim nationality you can think of. It is all part of the Islamic culture that see Islamic property as being muslim for ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Sorry Coyote, but because of Muhammad and Aisha, marrying and having sexual relationships with children is not frowned upon in many Muslim dominated countries.  Why do you continue to deny this?  Why does this offend you so much?  It is just the truth.  The reason WHY we have so many issues is because of people who don't want to face the truth head on and would rather avoid it or make excuses for it.  I suppose now we will get a barrage of reports about British natives having been convicted for pedophilia, and yes, there are pedophiles of all ethnicities, but this is a rampant problem in some Muslim countries, so much so that human rights organizations are involved.


----------



## Vikrant

Phoenall said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I was a kid there were only a thousand or two Muslims living in Scandinavian countries. *These countries had the lowest rates of rape in the world*, and they also had some of the most relaxed attitudes towards sex.
> 
> It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that certain things are inevitable when you import enormous numbers of  immigrants from primitive societies with extremely misogynistic and twisted attitudes towards  sex, and these attitudes are compounded when these immigrants have  such a sense of superiority that they regard the native population as theirs to treat as they please.
> 
> This issue is so undeniably about the culture of the perpetrators that to try to claim it is "derailing" the thread to talk about anything actually pertinent is the stuff of an underhanded agenda implemented with full intent on squashing discussion rather than furthering it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The issue, and the claims should be looked at critically. Is there a "Muslim Rape Wave" in Scandinavia?
> 
> When you were a kid (which likely is fairly close to when I was a kid) and now - *laws as to what constituted rape differed.*
> 
> For example, this article is from 2011: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/w...xtend-to-the-bedroom.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
> 
> This blog entry is from 2013 (from someone opposed to the changes occurring in the legal system regarding rape).
> 
> The difference between what constituted rape then and what constitutes rape now in Norway is huge - meaning many more acts are now legally criminalized as rape and are going to be reported.  Right then and there you have a "rape epidemic" due to a change in the legal definition of rape.  Sweden is similar in that many acts are considered "rape" in Sweden that are not elsewhere due to changes in the law and changes in how rape cases are handled.
> 
> Concurrently you have an increase in immigration from non-Western European countries.  But is correlation causation?  That's what some would have you believe.
> 
> The primary source for the so-called "Muslim rape wave" seems to be data from a report titled "_Voldtekt i den globale byen" _which provides an analysis of rape statistics in Oslo during 2010.  This is picked up by groups such as Britains BNP and sites such as Norway ALL Rapes In Past 5 Years Committed By Muslims 8220 Non-Western 8221 Immigrants Pamela Geller Atlas Shrugs which take information from limited studies, distort it,  and attempt to apply broadly across an entire nation.  The rational behind this spread is easy - nothing instills fear and hate than the possibility that barbarians are raping our women and assaulting our children and when people don't really understand statistics or critical thinking, they pick right up on it.
> 
> But what happens when you break it down?  Looking at just the Oslo report:
> 
> _The police report referred to is Voldtekt i den globale byen (Rape in the global city) which provides a detailed analysis of the rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. The report in fact shows that, of 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin while the majority – 54.2% – were of Norwegian, other European or American origin. _
> 
> _
> The claim that “all rapists in Oslo are immigrants” is based exclusively on the figures for “assault rape”, i.e. rape aggravated by physical violence, a category that included only 6 of the 152 cases and 5 of the 131 identified individuals. All of those 5 individuals were indeed of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin. However, the police report adds that in other cases of assault rape, where the individual responsible was not identified and the police relied on the description provided by the victim, “8 of the perpetrators were African / dark-skinned appearance, 5 were Western / light / Nordic and 4 had an Asian appearance”. Which falls some way short of substantiating the claim that all perpetrators of aggravated rape in Oslo are of non-western origin, never mind the assertion that “Muslim immigrants” are responsible for all rapes in the city._​
> 
> _*The police report also points out that “it must be stressed that the strong over-representation of people from minority backgrounds for several types of rape can not be interpreted as meaning that foreign culture is a causal explanation of rape” and that “the statistical difference in criminal behaviour between ethnic groups disappears when controlling for socio-economic conditions”.* It concludes: “Gross generalisations that have given the impression that the rapists are only foreigners – and largely Muslim – prove inadequate and erroneous.”_
> 
> _
> In other words, on the basis of their detailed factual analysis the Norwegian police draw exactly the opposite conclusion about rape in Oslo from that promoted in Pat Condell’s latest anti-Muslim video rant. But then, when have facts ever been of any concern to racist bigots like Condell?_​
> _
> So when looked at critically from a number of angles - is there even a rape epidemic at all much less one driven by Muslim immigrants in general?_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missing the elephant in the room aren't you as the figures try to hide the increasing numbers of rapes by immigrants. If the population of Oslo was 48% immigrant then the figures would not be alarming, but seeing as it is less than 20% then it shows the immigrants are 5 times more likely to be rapists. Just as the overall figures for Scandanavia show that immigrants are 20 times more likely to be rapists. It is all down to perceptions based on facts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems like UK has a culture of sex with minor girls/boys. Certain immigrants from certain background simply became suppliers of that demand. So, your racism is not going to help UK. In a country where police is directed to drop charges of pedophilia against a person just because he is VIP these kind of things are bound to happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan etc. the men are marrying 9 to 11 year old girls all the time, it is part of that culture to do so. It is even commanded by their religion to have sex with very young girls, so don't try and blame the British for what is happening in your culture as well.
Click to expand...


You are a racist and an idiot.


----------



## Vikrant

Phoenall said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eck, this stuff is horrible.  I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is part of the culture there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Part of the culture where?  The UK?  Hmm.  Don't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What else this thread is about? Canada?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They have laws against this stuff in the UK, no?  These people are breaking the law, and I don't believe this is a widely accepted cultural practice in the UK, or at least I hope it isn't.  Maybe this is one of the unintended consequences when your age of consent laws are too lax and when you sexualize children at too early an age?   I've read that the schools are quite liberal in their sex education teachings for young children over there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes we do and we demand that they apply equally to all British subjects, irrespective of race, creed, nationality, skin colour, religion or social status. This is why so many politicians and landed gentry are being arrested, charged and put before the courts for crimes they have committed
Click to expand...


Bullshit. Abuse of young boys/girls went on for decades with the knowledge of police. Police was pressured to drop the charges because people who committed the crimes were wealthy and in some cases had connection with royals.


----------



## Vikrant

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you, or do you not see the world as it really is watching it through your rose tinted spectacles from your ivory tower. There is no deliberate ,misrepresentation of the facts as the facts speak for themselves. In Scandanavian countries the muslim population is around 10% in total, yet the number of muslim  rapes is over 50% of the total. Care to explain why this is and how it is a misrepresentation. The facts now are that many Europeans are not reporting rapes and serious sexual assaults as it is a complete waste of time, the culprits cry racism and are allowed to walk free. Is that right or is it pandering to a minority because they issue threats of violence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The way I look at it is that Coyote either is or is not Muslim.  Considering the dishonest agenda here, it is impossible to tell.
> 
> If Muslim, then all the propaganda is intentional. It is right out of the C.A.I.R.  handbook.
> 
> If not Muslim, then Coyote is, at best, a useful idiot, motivated by the need to feel good about herself (if, indeed, female)  by this constant championing of anything to do with Islam.  Some people just need a cause no matter how stupid, destructive and misguided, and her calling people racist is a projection of her own manifest hatred of anything that is not part of her Islamic cause.  Of course, she supports all manner of vile, racist behavior as long as it is a Muslim doing it, but that doesn't stop her from seeking a sense of virtuousness by calling others racist for telling the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So can you address any of the points being made in a rational manner or is that beyond your capacity?
> 
> Pedophile rings operating in the UK for years because the main violators are celebrities, politicians, doctors, policemen?  That seems a huge issue and not an Islamic issue.
Click to expand...


Pakistani/Muslim men surface in high percentage among UK's underage groomers despite them being less than 5% of the total population. At least this is how British media portrays them. There was another indictment couple of weeks ago. This time too the guilty were Muslim men although they were not from Pakistan but Somalia in this case. 

There is a possibility that the British media is actually focusing on Muslim perpetrators and ignoring the non-Muslim ones. 

---



> Thirteen men, all of Somali origin, have been convicted of the systematic sexual abuse of vulnerable girls as young as 13 in Bristol and officers are investigating claims against 49 other suspects.









13 men guilty of enforced prostitution and rape of vulnerable girls in Bristol UK news The Guardian


----------



## ChrisL

Vikrant said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you, or do you not see the world as it really is watching it through your rose tinted spectacles from your ivory tower. There is no deliberate ,misrepresentation of the facts as the facts speak for themselves. In Scandanavian countries the muslim population is around 10% in total, yet the number of muslim  rapes is over 50% of the total. Care to explain why this is and how it is a misrepresentation. The facts now are that many Europeans are not reporting rapes and serious sexual assaults as it is a complete waste of time, the culprits cry racism and are allowed to walk free. Is that right or is it pandering to a minority because they issue threats of violence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The way I look at it is that Coyote either is or is not Muslim.  Considering the dishonest agenda here, it is impossible to tell.
> 
> If Muslim, then all the propaganda is intentional. It is right out of the C.A.I.R.  handbook.
> 
> If not Muslim, then Coyote is, at best, a useful idiot, motivated by the need to feel good about herself (if, indeed, female)  by this constant championing of anything to do with Islam.  Some people just need a cause no matter how stupid, destructive and misguided, and her calling people racist is a projection of her own manifest hatred of anything that is not part of her Islamic cause.  Of course, she supports all manner of vile, racist behavior as long as it is a Muslim doing it, but that doesn't stop her from seeking a sense of virtuousness by calling others racist for telling the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So can you address any of the points being made in a rational manner or is that beyond your capacity?
> 
> Pedophile rings operating in the UK for years because the main violators are celebrities, politicians, doctors, policemen?  That seems a huge issue and not an Islamic issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pakistani/Muslim men surface in high percentage among UK's underage groomers despite them being less than 5% of the total population. At least this is how British media portrays them. There was another indictment couple of weeks ago. This time too the guilty were Muslim men although they were not from Pakistan but Somalia in this case.
> 
> There is a possibility that the British media is actually focusing on Muslim perpetrators and ignoring the non-Muslim ones.
> 
> ---
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirteen men, all of Somali origin, have been convicted of the systematic sexual abuse of vulnerable girls as young as 13 in Bristol and officers are investigating claims against 49 other suspects.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 13 men guilty of enforced prostitution and rape of vulnerable girls in Bristol UK news The Guardian
Click to expand...


I think it's pretty obvious that there was involvement from the "authorities" and the people in charge here.  

I hope all of those men pictured above are also prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.  However, like I've been saying, it is not surprising because of how they see women and girls.


----------



## Vikrant

^ There are lots of men who have seriously antagonistic attitude towards women. Men of this type are willing to do horrible things to women and sexual exploitation or sexual slavery is certainly not off the limit for them.


----------



## ChrisL

Vikrant said:


> ^ There are lots of men who have seriously antagonistic attitude towards women. Men of this type are willing to do horrible things to women and sexual exploitation or sexual slavery is certainly not off the limit for them.



Well, you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this issue because I've read enough things to realize that some people from some cultures just cannot peacefully live side by side.  It's just never going to happen.


----------



## ChrisL

Vikrant said:


> ^ There are lots of men who have seriously antagonistic attitude towards women. Men of this type are willing to do horrible things to women and sexual exploitation or sexual slavery is certainly not off the limit for them.



Just look at countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, where the whole country is broken up into "tribes" so to speak, and they are constantly fighting about . . . who knows what?  It's been that way for what might as well be forever there and shows no signs of changing any time soon.  What makes you think they can get along with anyone else?


----------



## Vikrant

ChrisL said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^ There are lots of men who have seriously antagonistic attitude towards women. Men of this type are willing to do horrible things to women and sexual exploitation or sexual slavery is certainly not off the limit for them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this issue because I've read enough things to realize that some people from some cultures just cannot peacefully live side by side.  It's just never going to happen.
Click to expand...


Désaccord enlevé mon bel ange


----------



## Vikrant

Bel Ange,

Any society which takes religion too seriously opens itself up for outside manipulation. That is why western countries encourage fundamentalist leaders in many parts of the world. They are easy to coerce and take advantage of.


----------



## ChrisL

Vikrant said:


> Bel Ange,
> 
> Any society which takes religion too seriously opens itself up for outside manipulation. That is why western countries encourage fundamentalist leaders in many parts of the world. They are easy to coerce and take advantage of.



It is also due to very poor and corrupt leadership in those countries that wants to keep the people at each others' throats and hating the rest of the world and blaming everyone else for their problems instead of their own corrupt leaders.  This is a great way for their leaders to take attention off of the things that they are doing.  Also, I believe that this is the reason why a lot of these countries have very poor education and amenities.  This is how THEY want things.  That is why it will never change, at least probably not in our lifetimes.


----------



## Phoenall

ChrisL said:


> Len62 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eck, this stuff is horrible.  I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is part of the culture there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Part of the culture where?  The UK?  Hmm.  Don't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________________
> 
> You could  trying googling phoenall's claim   about  ##"sex game" deaths in the UK ##
> 
> and read the results  !!
> 
> Phoenall probably uses more Extreme sites to satisfy his '*Research'    *sites that most normal people wouldn't touch with a barge pole  or believe   !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That post was addressed to Vikrant, not Phoenall.
Click to expand...




 Just my local friendly TROLL and STALKER that has followed me here from a UK board. He defends child rape and abuse while spouting fascist dogma about what should be done to those that don't hold the same political views as him. He has had his ability to post seriously curtailed on that board so he has followed me here to carry on with his filth.


----------



## Phoenall

Vikrant said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I was a kid there were only a thousand or two Muslims living in Scandinavian countries. *These countries had the lowest rates of rape in the world*, and they also had some of the most relaxed attitudes towards sex.
> 
> It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that certain things are inevitable when you import enormous numbers of  immigrants from primitive societies with extremely misogynistic and twisted attitudes towards  sex, and these attitudes are compounded when these immigrants have  such a sense of superiority that they regard the native population as theirs to treat as they please.
> 
> This issue is so undeniably about the culture of the perpetrators that to try to claim it is "derailing" the thread to talk about anything actually pertinent is the stuff of an underhanded agenda implemented with full intent on squashing discussion rather than furthering it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The issue, and the claims should be looked at critically. Is there a "Muslim Rape Wave" in Scandinavia?
> 
> When you were a kid (which likely is fairly close to when I was a kid) and now - *laws as to what constituted rape differed.*
> 
> For example, this article is from 2011: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/w...xtend-to-the-bedroom.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
> 
> This blog entry is from 2013 (from someone opposed to the changes occurring in the legal system regarding rape).
> 
> The difference between what constituted rape then and what constitutes rape now in Norway is huge - meaning many more acts are now legally criminalized as rape and are going to be reported.  Right then and there you have a "rape epidemic" due to a change in the legal definition of rape.  Sweden is similar in that many acts are considered "rape" in Sweden that are not elsewhere due to changes in the law and changes in how rape cases are handled.
> 
> Concurrently you have an increase in immigration from non-Western European countries.  But is correlation causation?  That's what some would have you believe.
> 
> The primary source for the so-called "Muslim rape wave" seems to be data from a report titled "_Voldtekt i den globale byen" _which provides an analysis of rape statistics in Oslo during 2010.  This is picked up by groups such as Britains BNP and sites such as Norway ALL Rapes In Past 5 Years Committed By Muslims 8220 Non-Western 8221 Immigrants Pamela Geller Atlas Shrugs which take information from limited studies, distort it,  and attempt to apply broadly across an entire nation.  The rational behind this spread is easy - nothing instills fear and hate than the possibility that barbarians are raping our women and assaulting our children and when people don't really understand statistics or critical thinking, they pick right up on it.
> 
> But what happens when you break it down?  Looking at just the Oslo report:
> 
> _The police report referred to is Voldtekt i den globale byen (Rape in the global city) which provides a detailed analysis of the rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. The report in fact shows that, of 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin while the majority – 54.2% – were of Norwegian, other European or American origin. _
> 
> _
> The claim that “all rapists in Oslo are immigrants” is based exclusively on the figures for “assault rape”, i.e. rape aggravated by physical violence, a category that included only 6 of the 152 cases and 5 of the 131 identified individuals. All of those 5 individuals were indeed of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin. However, the police report adds that in other cases of assault rape, where the individual responsible was not identified and the police relied on the description provided by the victim, “8 of the perpetrators were African / dark-skinned appearance, 5 were Western / light / Nordic and 4 had an Asian appearance”. Which falls some way short of substantiating the claim that all perpetrators of aggravated rape in Oslo are of non-western origin, never mind the assertion that “Muslim immigrants” are responsible for all rapes in the city._​
> 
> _*The police report also points out that “it must be stressed that the strong over-representation of people from minority backgrounds for several types of rape can not be interpreted as meaning that foreign culture is a causal explanation of rape” and that “the statistical difference in criminal behaviour between ethnic groups disappears when controlling for socio-economic conditions”.* It concludes: “Gross generalisations that have given the impression that the rapists are only foreigners – and largely Muslim – prove inadequate and erroneous.”_
> 
> _
> In other words, on the basis of their detailed factual analysis the Norwegian police draw exactly the opposite conclusion about rape in Oslo from that promoted in Pat Condell’s latest anti-Muslim video rant. But then, when have facts ever been of any concern to racist bigots like Condell?_​
> _
> So when looked at critically from a number of angles - is there even a rape epidemic at all much less one driven by Muslim immigrants in general?_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missing the elephant in the room aren't you as the figures try to hide the increasing numbers of rapes by immigrants. If the population of Oslo was 48% immigrant then the figures would not be alarming, but seeing as it is less than 20% then it shows the immigrants are 5 times more likely to be rapists. Just as the overall figures for Scandanavia show that immigrants are 20 times more likely to be rapists. It is all down to perceptions based on facts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems like UK has a culture of sex with minor girls/boys. Certain immigrants from certain background simply became suppliers of that demand. So, your racism is not going to help UK. In a country where police is directed to drop charges of pedophilia against a person just because he is VIP these kind of things are bound to happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan etc. the men are marrying 9 to 11 year old girls all the time, it is part of that culture to do so. It is even commanded by their religion to have sex with very young girls, so don't try and blame the British for what is happening in your culture as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are a racist and an idiot.
Click to expand...





 Since when has it been racist to speak the truth, and that is what is upsetting you the fact that you know it is the truth. Your cries of racist to suppress the truth no longer work as far too many people are checking for themselves and seeing the real islam. The one that is being RACIST is you by trying to cover up the reality of 3rd world cultures living in the 7C practising child sex abuse in the 21C


----------



## Phoenall

Vikrant said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is part of the culture there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Part of the culture where?  The UK?  Hmm.  Don't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What else this thread is about? Canada?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They have laws against this stuff in the UK, no?  These people are breaking the law, and I don't believe this is a widely accepted cultural practice in the UK, or at least I hope it isn't.  Maybe this is one of the unintended consequences when your age of consent laws are too lax and when you sexualize children at too early an age?   I've read that the schools are quite liberal in their sex education teachings for young children over there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes we do and we demand that they apply equally to all British subjects, irrespective of race, creed, nationality, skin colour, religion or social status. This is why so many politicians and landed gentry are being arrested, charged and put before the courts for crimes they have committed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit. Abuse of young boys/girls went on for decades with the knowledge of police. Police was pressured to drop the charges because people who committed the crimes were wealthy and in some cases had connection with royals.
Click to expand...




 That was then, this is now and if it was like you are trying to portray then you would not know about the many cases being brought today. If the people had not spoke out how would you know about the planed inquiry into systematic child sex abuse and the cover up in Westminster. The authorities are systematically going through the groups that are causing the most interest with the general public and this has led to arrests of muslim men and celebrities, not all have been found guilty but far too many have and when the ball stops rolling you will see a line of prisoners with long faces who no longer have any support.


----------



## Phoenall

ChrisL said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bel Ange,
> 
> Any society which takes religion too seriously opens itself up for outside manipulation. That is why western countries encourage fundamentalist leaders in many parts of the world. They are easy to coerce and take advantage of.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is also due to very poor and corrupt leadership in those countries that wants to keep the people at each others' throats and hating the rest of the world and blaming everyone else for their problems instead of their own corrupt leaders.  This is a great way for their leaders to take attention off of the things that they are doing.  Also, I believe that this is the reason why a lot of these countries have very poor education and amenities.  This is how THEY want things.  That is why it will never change, at least probably not in our lifetimes.
Click to expand...





 True look at the corruption in the Indian sub continent where senior officials line their pockets every chance they get, a good example of corruption is Arafat who creamed $billions from Palestinian aid and felted it away in a Swiss account. His wife now lives in luxury in France, not bad for a terrorist is it.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Phoenall said:


> Since when has it been racist to speak the truth, and that is what is upsetting you the fact that you know it is the truth. Your cries of racist to suppress the truth no longer work as far too many people are checking for themselves and seeing the real islam. The one that is being RACIST is you by trying to cover up the reality of 3rd world cultures living in the 7C practising child sex abuse in the 21C




Speaking the truth is racist when those making such an accusation do so as a deliberate attempt to ensure the situation is allowed to continue. I don't really think Vikrant is doing this, mind you, but Coyote sure is. 

When hearing of Islamic men singling out vulnerable British children for sexual abuse, any sort of decent person is horrified and wants to know how the situation was allowed for so long as it was.  It takes a special type of monster to show such solidarity with the perps that they devote themselves to creating the very situation that enabled it.

Coyote does not call people racist because she is simply a useful idiot. She does it quite knowingly and with full intent. This is a calculated, mindful agenda at work here, and not just the babbling of a bleeding heart whose heart bleeds for anybody but the victims. This creature does not give a rats ass about these British children -- only in making it impossible to protect them.


----------



## Vikrant

Phoenall said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> The issue, and the claims should be looked at critically. Is there a "Muslim Rape Wave" in Scandinavia?
> 
> When you were a kid (which likely is fairly close to when I was a kid) and now - *laws as to what constituted rape differed.*
> 
> For example, this article is from 2011: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/w...xtend-to-the-bedroom.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
> 
> This blog entry is from 2013 (from someone opposed to the changes occurring in the legal system regarding rape).
> 
> The difference between what constituted rape then and what constitutes rape now in Norway is huge - meaning many more acts are now legally criminalized as rape and are going to be reported.  Right then and there you have a "rape epidemic" due to a change in the legal definition of rape.  Sweden is similar in that many acts are considered "rape" in Sweden that are not elsewhere due to changes in the law and changes in how rape cases are handled.
> 
> Concurrently you have an increase in immigration from non-Western European countries.  But is correlation causation?  That's what some would have you believe.
> 
> The primary source for the so-called "Muslim rape wave" seems to be data from a report titled "_Voldtekt i den globale byen" _which provides an analysis of rape statistics in Oslo during 2010.  This is picked up by groups such as Britains BNP and sites such as Norway ALL Rapes In Past 5 Years Committed By Muslims 8220 Non-Western 8221 Immigrants Pamela Geller Atlas Shrugs which take information from limited studies, distort it,  and attempt to apply broadly across an entire nation.  The rational behind this spread is easy - nothing instills fear and hate than the possibility that barbarians are raping our women and assaulting our children and when people don't really understand statistics or critical thinking, they pick right up on it.
> 
> But what happens when you break it down?  Looking at just the Oslo report:
> 
> _The police report referred to is Voldtekt i den globale byen (Rape in the global city) which provides a detailed analysis of the rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. The report in fact shows that, of 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin while the majority – 54.2% – were of Norwegian, other European or American origin. _
> 
> _
> The claim that “all rapists in Oslo are immigrants” is based exclusively on the figures for “assault rape”, i.e. rape aggravated by physical violence, a category that included only 6 of the 152 cases and 5 of the 131 identified individuals. All of those 5 individuals were indeed of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin. However, the police report adds that in other cases of assault rape, where the individual responsible was not identified and the police relied on the description provided by the victim, “8 of the perpetrators were African / dark-skinned appearance, 5 were Western / light / Nordic and 4 had an Asian appearance”. Which falls some way short of substantiating the claim that all perpetrators of aggravated rape in Oslo are of non-western origin, never mind the assertion that “Muslim immigrants” are responsible for all rapes in the city._​
> 
> _*The police report also points out that “it must be stressed that the strong over-representation of people from minority backgrounds for several types of rape can not be interpreted as meaning that foreign culture is a causal explanation of rape” and that “the statistical difference in criminal behaviour between ethnic groups disappears when controlling for socio-economic conditions”.* It concludes: “Gross generalisations that have given the impression that the rapists are only foreigners – and largely Muslim – prove inadequate and erroneous.”_
> 
> _
> In other words, on the basis of their detailed factual analysis the Norwegian police draw exactly the opposite conclusion about rape in Oslo from that promoted in Pat Condell’s latest anti-Muslim video rant. But then, when have facts ever been of any concern to racist bigots like Condell?_​
> _
> So when looked at critically from a number of angles - is there even a rape epidemic at all much less one driven by Muslim immigrants in general?_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missing the elephant in the room aren't you as the figures try to hide the increasing numbers of rapes by immigrants. If the population of Oslo was 48% immigrant then the figures would not be alarming, but seeing as it is less than 20% then it shows the immigrants are 5 times more likely to be rapists. Just as the overall figures for Scandanavia show that immigrants are 20 times more likely to be rapists. It is all down to perceptions based on facts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems like UK has a culture of sex with minor girls/boys. Certain immigrants from certain background simply became suppliers of that demand. So, your racism is not going to help UK. In a country where police is directed to drop charges of pedophilia against a person just because he is VIP these kind of things are bound to happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan etc. the men are marrying 9 to 11 year old girls all the time, it is part of that culture to do so. It is even commanded by their religion to have sex with very young girls, so don't try and blame the British for what is happening in your culture as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are a racist and an idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since when has it been racist to speak the truth, and that is what is upsetting you the fact that you know it is the truth. Your cries of racist to suppress the truth no longer work as far too many people are checking for themselves and seeing the real islam. The one that is being RACIST is you by trying to cover up the reality of 3rd world cultures living in the 7C practising child sex abuse in the 21C
Click to expand...


You are still a racist, bigot and an idiot.


----------



## Vikrant

Phoenall said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bel Ange,
> 
> Any society which takes religion too seriously opens itself up for outside manipulation. That is why western countries encourage fundamentalist leaders in many parts of the world. They are easy to coerce and take advantage of.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is also due to very poor and corrupt leadership in those countries that wants to keep the people at each others' throats and hating the rest of the world and blaming everyone else for their problems instead of their own corrupt leaders.  This is a great way for their leaders to take attention off of the things that they are doing.  Also, I believe that this is the reason why a lot of these countries have very poor education and amenities.  This is how THEY want things.  That is why it will never change, at least probably not in our lifetimes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True look at the corruption in the Indian sub continent where senior officials line their pockets every chance they get, a good example of corruption is Arafat who creamed $billions from Palestinian aid and felted it away in a Swiss account. His wife now lives in luxury in France, not bad for a terrorist is it.
Click to expand...


That was a stupid post.


----------



## ChrisL

Vikrant said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bel Ange,
> 
> Any society which takes religion too seriously opens itself up for outside manipulation. That is why western countries encourage fundamentalist leaders in many parts of the world. They are easy to coerce and take advantage of.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is also due to very poor and corrupt leadership in those countries that wants to keep the people at each others' throats and hating the rest of the world and blaming everyone else for their problems instead of their own corrupt leaders.  This is a great way for their leaders to take attention off of the things that they are doing.  Also, I believe that this is the reason why a lot of these countries have very poor education and amenities.  This is how THEY want things.  That is why it will never change, at least probably not in our lifetimes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True look at the corruption in the Indian sub continent where senior officials line their pockets every chance they get, a good example of corruption is Arafat who creamed $billions from Palestinian aid and felted it away in a Swiss account. His wife now lives in luxury in France, not bad for a terrorist is it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was a stupid post.
Click to expand...


But that is exactly what these dictators do.  Why are they not to blame for the condition of their own countries?  Why do people want to blame outside influences all the time?  The condition of those countries is the fault of no one else but the people who live there and cannot seem to get along and the dictators who are controlling them.


----------



## Vikrant

ChrisL said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bel Ange,
> 
> Any society which takes religion too seriously opens itself up for outside manipulation. That is why western countries encourage fundamentalist leaders in many parts of the world. They are easy to coerce and take advantage of.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is also due to very poor and corrupt leadership in those countries that wants to keep the people at each others' throats and hating the rest of the world and blaming everyone else for their problems instead of their own corrupt leaders.  This is a great way for their leaders to take attention off of the things that they are doing.  Also, I believe that this is the reason why a lot of these countries have very poor education and amenities.  This is how THEY want things.  That is why it will never change, at least probably not in our lifetimes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True look at the corruption in the Indian sub continent where senior officials line their pockets every chance they get, a good example of corruption is Arafat who creamed $billions from Palestinian aid and felted it away in a Swiss account. His wife now lives in luxury in France, not bad for a terrorist is it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was a stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that is exactly what these dictators do.  Why are they not to blame for the condition of their own countries?  Why do people want to blame outside influences all the time?  The condition of those countries is the fault of no one else but the people who live there and cannot seem to get along and the dictators who are controlling them.
Click to expand...


That person is an idiot. He does not know anything about geography or geopolitics. You are welcome to take his post seriously if you wish. That is your choice.


----------



## Phoenall

Vikrant said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Missing the elephant in the room aren't you as the figures try to hide the increasing numbers of rapes by immigrants. If the population of Oslo was 48% immigrant then the figures would not be alarming, but seeing as it is less than 20% then it shows the immigrants are 5 times more likely to be rapists. Just as the overall figures for Scandanavia show that immigrants are 20 times more likely to be rapists. It is all down to perceptions based on facts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems like UK has a culture of sex with minor girls/boys. Certain immigrants from certain background simply became suppliers of that demand. So, your racism is not going to help UK. In a country where police is directed to drop charges of pedophilia against a person just because he is VIP these kind of things are bound to happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan etc. the men are marrying 9 to 11 year old girls all the time, it is part of that culture to do so. It is even commanded by their religion to have sex with very young girls, so don't try and blame the British for what is happening in your culture as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are a racist and an idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since when has it been racist to speak the truth, and that is what is upsetting you the fact that you know it is the truth. Your cries of racist to suppress the truth no longer work as far too many people are checking for themselves and seeing the real islam. The one that is being RACIST is you by trying to cover up the reality of 3rd world cultures living in the 7C practising child sex abuse in the 21C
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are still a racist, bigot and an idiot.
Click to expand...





Do show the racist comments that I have made, or retract and apologise


----------



## Vikrant

Phoenall said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems like UK has a culture of sex with minor girls/boys. Certain immigrants from certain background simply became suppliers of that demand. So, your racism is not going to help UK. In a country where police is directed to drop charges of pedophilia against a person just because he is VIP these kind of things are bound to happen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan etc. the men are marrying 9 to 11 year old girls all the time, it is part of that culture to do so. It is even commanded by their religion to have sex with very young girls, so don't try and blame the British for what is happening in your culture as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are a racist and an idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since when has it been racist to speak the truth, and that is what is upsetting you the fact that you know it is the truth. Your cries of racist to suppress the truth no longer work as far too many people are checking for themselves and seeing the real islam. The one that is being RACIST is you by trying to cover up the reality of 3rd world cultures living in the 7C practising child sex abuse in the 21C
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are still a racist, bigot and an idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do show the racist comments that I have made, or retract and apologise
Click to expand...


We have been through this before.


----------



## Phoenall

Vikrant said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bel Ange,
> 
> Any society which takes religion too seriously opens itself up for outside manipulation. That is why western countries encourage fundamentalist leaders in many parts of the world. They are easy to coerce and take advantage of.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is also due to very poor and corrupt leadership in those countries that wants to keep the people at each others' throats and hating the rest of the world and blaming everyone else for their problems instead of their own corrupt leaders.  This is a great way for their leaders to take attention off of the things that they are doing.  Also, I believe that this is the reason why a lot of these countries have very poor education and amenities.  This is how THEY want things.  That is why it will never change, at least probably not in our lifetimes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True look at the corruption in the Indian sub continent where senior officials line their pockets every chance they get, a good example of corruption is Arafat who creamed $billions from Palestinian aid and felted it away in a Swiss account. His wife now lives in luxury in France, not bad for a terrorist is it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was a stupid post.
Click to expand...




 WHY ? because it tells the truth. Even the UK government and media have commented on the fact the biggest majority of UK aid to Pakistan goes into the pockets of its leaders. Just as the world knew all about Arafat and his $millions stashed in a Swiss bank.


----------



## Phoenall

Vikrant said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bel Ange,
> 
> Any society which takes religion too seriously opens itself up for outside manipulation. That is why western countries encourage fundamentalist leaders in many parts of the world. They are easy to coerce and take advantage of.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is also due to very poor and corrupt leadership in those countries that wants to keep the people at each others' throats and hating the rest of the world and blaming everyone else for their problems instead of their own corrupt leaders.  This is a great way for their leaders to take attention off of the things that they are doing.  Also, I believe that this is the reason why a lot of these countries have very poor education and amenities.  This is how THEY want things.  That is why it will never change, at least probably not in our lifetimes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True look at the corruption in the Indian sub continent where senior officials line their pockets every chance they get, a good example of corruption is Arafat who creamed $billions from Palestinian aid and felted it away in a Swiss account. His wife now lives in luxury in France, not bad for a terrorist is it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was a stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that is exactly what these dictators do.  Why are they not to blame for the condition of their own countries?  Why do people want to blame outside influences all the time?  The condition of those countries is the fault of no one else but the people who live there and cannot seem to get along and the dictators who are controlling them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That person is an idiot. He does not know anything about geography or geopolitics. You are welcome to take his post seriously if you wish. That is your choice.
Click to expand...





 Seems that I know a lot more than you, and you don't like seeing the facts laid out on the table.


----------



## Phoenall

Vikrant said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yet in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan etc. the men are marrying 9 to 11 year old girls all the time, it is part of that culture to do so. It is even commanded by their religion to have sex with very young girls, so don't try and blame the British for what is happening in your culture as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are a racist and an idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since when has it been racist to speak the truth, and that is what is upsetting you the fact that you know it is the truth. Your cries of racist to suppress the truth no longer work as far too many people are checking for themselves and seeing the real islam. The one that is being RACIST is you by trying to cover up the reality of 3rd world cultures living in the 7C practising child sex abuse in the 21C
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are still a racist, bigot and an idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do show the racist comments that I have made, or retract and apologise
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We have been through this before.
Click to expand...





 No we haven't, I have asked a simple question and you cant produce any evidence to support your claim. It is you that is racist when you screech racist because the person is telling the truth.


----------



## Vikrant

Phoenall said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bel Ange,
> 
> Any society which takes religion too seriously opens itself up for outside manipulation. That is why western countries encourage fundamentalist leaders in many parts of the world. They are easy to coerce and take advantage of.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is also due to very poor and corrupt leadership in those countries that wants to keep the people at each others' throats and hating the rest of the world and blaming everyone else for their problems instead of their own corrupt leaders.  This is a great way for their leaders to take attention off of the things that they are doing.  Also, I believe that this is the reason why a lot of these countries have very poor education and amenities.  This is how THEY want things.  That is why it will never change, at least probably not in our lifetimes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True look at the corruption in the Indian sub continent where senior officials line their pockets every chance they get, a good example of corruption is Arafat who creamed $billions from Palestinian aid and felted it away in a Swiss account. His wife now lives in luxury in France, not bad for a terrorist is it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was a stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WHY ? because it tells the truth. Even the UK government and media have commented on the fact the biggest majority of UK aid to Pakistan goes into the pockets of its leaders. Just as the world knew all about Arafat and his $millions stashed in a Swiss bank.
Click to expand...


Now you are creating a straw man. 

Yes, UK's money should be used to make the lives of people in UK better. It should not go to Pakistan or any other country. Nobody is saying anything contrary - at least I am not. 

---

Birmingham's first Islamic school 'spent £1m of public money on school in Pakistan'

Birmingham s first Islamic school spent 1m of public money on school in Pakistan - Education News - Education - The Independent


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^ There are lots of men who have seriously antagonistic attitude towards women. Men of this type are willing to do horrible things to women and sexual exploitation or sexual slavery is certainly not off the limit for them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just look at countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, where the whole country is broken up into "tribes" so to speak, and they are constantly fighting about . . . who knows what?  It's been that way for what might as well be forever there and shows no signs of changing any time soon.  What makes you think they can get along with anyone else?
Click to expand...


Because when they immigrate, they often adopt western values and get along.


----------



## Vikrant

Phoenall said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are a racist and an idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since when has it been racist to speak the truth, and that is what is upsetting you the fact that you know it is the truth. Your cries of racist to suppress the truth no longer work as far too many people are checking for themselves and seeing the real islam. The one that is being RACIST is you by trying to cover up the reality of 3rd world cultures living in the 7C practising child sex abuse in the 21C
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are still a racist, bigot and an idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do show the racist comments that I have made, or retract and apologise
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We have been through this before.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No we haven't, I have asked a simple question and you cant produce any evidence to support your claim. It is you that is racist when you screech racist because the person is telling the truth.
Click to expand...


You have been a racist and an idiot since the day one. I have called you on it a long time ago. I do not have time to discuss same thing again and again because I  have things like work and other life commitments. You have in past advocated human rights violation of people of dark skinned color by proposing to make them stateless. Go back and read your demented posts yourself.


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems like UK has a culture of sex with minor girls/boys. Certain immigrants from certain background simply became suppliers of that demand. So, your racism is not going to help UK. In a country where police is directed to drop charges of pedophilia against a person just because he is VIP these kind of things are bound to happen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Yet in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan etc. the men are marrying 9 to 11 year old girls all the time, it is part of that culture to do so*. It is even commanded by their religion to have sex with very young girls, so don't try and blame the British for what is happening in your culture as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All the time?  I'd like to see some stats on that 9-11 yr old range.
> 
> Granted - child marriages are a scrouge in many societies.  Religion can play a part in it but it is also heavily driven by economic factors.  Girl children are not regarded as having much value, and as a result families choose to marry them off rather than educate them.  Economic conditions are a HUGE driving factor with poor people marrying daughters off to settle debts or have one less mouth to feed.  The fate of child brides is usually dismal.
> 
> However, your claim that 9 and 11 year olds are married off "all the time" is a bit off as is your claim that it is widely accepted.  It is more common in some areas than others and in less educated, backwards rural areas than in the more educated communities.  Child marriages occur among Muslims, Hindus and Christians in those cultures.  Education, economic opportunities and convincing people that there is value in educating their girl children is key to putting an end to this.
> 
> Child Brides - Child Marriage What We Know . NOW PBS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contemporary Pedophilic Islamic Marriages - WikiIslam
> 
> The Islamic faith condones pedophilia. Therefore, contemporary pedophilic Islamic marriages are common practice around the globe.
> 
> In many Islamic countries, child marriages are common practice. Girls far below the age of puberty are often forcibly married to older persons (sometimes in their 50s and later) for various personal gains by the girls' guardian or with the intention to preserve family honor by helping her avoid pre-marital sex. Pedophilic Islamic marriages are most prevalent in Pakistan and Afghanistan, followed by other countries in the Middle East and Bangladesh.[1][2] This practice may also be prevalent to a lesser extent amongst other Muslim communities, and is on the rise among the growing Muslim populations in many non-Muslim countries, such as the United Kingdom[3] and the United States
> 
> 
> 
> Will this do you, or will you claim it is Zionist propaganda, seeing as the source is   "_Sahab is a former Sunni Muslim now agnostic from South Asia who joined the wiki in April 2009 and became an administrator in 2011"_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For a person that demands "unbiased sources" WikiIslam is about as biased as you can get.  Nice try.
> 
> What does Zionism have to do with any of this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the usual cry by those defending islam is to blame it all on the Zionists.
Click to expand...


Zionists have nothing to do with this.  
Quit pulling the antisemite card.


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since when has it been racist to speak the truth, and that is what is upsetting you the fact that you know it is the truth. Your cries of racist to suppress the truth no longer work as far too many people are checking for themselves and seeing the real islam. The one that is being RACIST is you by trying to cover up the reality of 3rd world cultures living in the 7C practising child sex abuse in the 21C
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking the truth is racist when those making such an accusation do so as a deliberate attempt to ensure the situation is allowed to continue. I don't really think Vikrant is doing this, mind you, but Coyote sure is.
> 
> When hearing of Islamic men singling out vulnerable British children for sexual abuse, any sort of decent person is horrified and wants to know how the situation was allowed for so long as it was.  It takes a special type of monster to show such solidarity with the perps that they devote themselves to creating the very situation that enabled it.
> 
> Coyote does not call people racist because she is simply a useful idiot. She does it quite knowingly and with full intent. This is a calculated, mindful agenda at work here, and not just the babbling of a bleeding heart whose heart bleeds for anybody but the victims. This creature does not give a rats ass about these British children -- only in making it impossible to protect them.
Click to expand...


...still giving me so much head space?  You're too funny.  So now I'm some sort of evil Jihadi Islamist anti-semitic infiltrator who supports the abuse of children?

Your thought disorder gets more and more blatent the more you spew.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bel Ange,
> 
> Any society which takes religion too seriously opens itself up for outside manipulation. That is why western countries encourage fundamentalist leaders in many parts of the world. They are easy to coerce and take advantage of.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is also due to very poor and corrupt leadership in those countries that wants to keep the people at each others' throats and hating the rest of the world and blaming everyone else for their problems instead of their own corrupt leaders.  This is a great way for their leaders to take attention off of the things that they are doing.  Also, I believe that this is the reason why a lot of these countries have very poor education and amenities.  This is how THEY want things.  That is why it will never change, at least probably not in our lifetimes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True look at the corruption in the Indian sub continent where senior officials line their pockets every chance they get, a good example of corruption is Arafat who creamed $billions from Palestinian aid and felted it away in a Swiss account. His wife now lives in luxury in France, not bad for a terrorist is it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was a stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that is exactly what these dictators do.  Why are they not to blame for the condition of their own countries?  Why do people want to blame outside influences all the time?  The condition of those countries is the fault of no one else but the people who live there and cannot seem to get along and the dictators who are controlling them.
Click to expand...


I disagree.  It is far more complex then that.  The conditions of those countries are built upon many factors.  You can't exclude foreign interference from that list.

For example - colonialism, which really didn't end for some countries until the 1960's and 70's left a mixed legacy behind.  Many colonial powers needed raw materials from those countries to ship to their own factories for value-added manufacturing.  Local manufacturing industries were destroyed and the economy built primarily upon the export of raw materials or agriculture.  That doesn't provide much value coming back to the people nor does it promote the growth of local industries. Add to that you have countries defined by artificial borders that force together ethnic and religious groups who have long hated each other.  You can see the results of that in the Balkan states when the USSR broke apart and conflict arose.  Sure you have huge amounts of corruption and democracies created without any of the necessary foundational institutions leading to life-time dictators.  It doesn't help either that foreign powers like the US support those very dictators when it's in our interest.  The problems are complicated.


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you, or do you not see the world as it really is watching it through your rose tinted spectacles from your ivory tower. There is no deliberate ,misrepresentation of the facts as the facts speak for themselves. In Scandanavian countries the muslim population is around 10% in total, yet the number of muslim  rapes is over 50% of the total. Care to explain why this is and how it is a misrepresentation. The facts now are that many Europeans are not reporting rapes and serious sexual assaults as it is a complete waste of time, the culprits cry racism and are allowed to walk free. Is that right or is it pandering to a minority because they issue threats of violence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The way I look at it is that Coyote either is or is not Muslim.  Considering the dishonest agenda here, it is impossible to tell.
> 
> If Muslim, then all the propaganda is intentional. It is right out of the C.A.I.R.  handbook.
> 
> If not Muslim, then Coyote is, at best, a useful idiot, motivated by the need to feel good about herself (if, indeed, female)  by this constant championing of anything to do with Islam.  Some people just need a cause no matter how stupid, destructive and misguided, and her calling people racist is a projection of her own manifest hatred of anything that is not part of her Islamic cause.  Of course, she supports all manner of vile, racist behavior as long as it is a Muslim doing it, but that doesn't stop her from seeking a sense of virtuousness by calling others racist for telling the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So can you address any of the points being made in a rational manner or is that beyond your capacity?
> 
> Pedophile rings operating in the UK for years because the main violators are celebrities, politicians, doctors, policemen?  That seems a huge issue and not an Islamic issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Strange that these only came to the attention of the people after the Pakistani muslim men were being arrested and charged, and the full scale of the problem was being seen. How many girls have been raped in the UK by Pakistani muslim men 2 million, 4 million or even 10 million That is the scale of the problem and because the numbers are huge people struggle to get their heads round them. The belief in the UK is that high profile celebrities are being outed to take the muslims of the radar before civil unrest starts in the UK and the muslim get a taste of their own medicine
Click to expand...


Do you  have an actual (unbiased) source showing how many girls  have been raped by Muslim men in the UK?

Are you promoting violence against British Muslims?


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eck, this stuff is horrible.  I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is the lack of response to the mistreatment that is just as horrible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree.  It's the cover up and the way this has been allowed to go unchanged for so many years largely because the people involved are VIP's.  When the coverup includes law enforcement and politicians it's particularly revolting - those are the very people who are supposed to be protecting the citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With so many creatures such as Coyote frothing at the mouth about "Islamophobia" on a veritable witch hunt to stamp out any possibility that Muslims can ever be held accountable for what they do and to try to intimidate people into silence, an entire culture has sprung up where people have been so beaten into submission by the bullying that they refuse to see what is before their very eyes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's humorous the amount of headspace you give me rent free with your obsession.  Islamophobia is like anti-semitism and it lends itself to witch hunts and a complete disregard for rational discourse.  For example - this - what occurred in Rotherham.
> 
> The people running the ring and supplying the victims to perverts were mostly Pakistani.  Criticism was rightly levied at the police for being reluctant to pursue this fully for fear of being charged with racism.  That has definately got to change - crimes like this should not be in anyway affect by PC in terms of who is questioned or pursued.
> 
> The real racism is people who use this and insist it's a "Muslim pedophile epidemic" and a "Muslim problem".  As if Muslims around the world are identical regardless of culture.  In this case the perpetrators were almost overwelmingly Pakistani.  Just one of many Muslim immigrant groups in the UK and in numbers hardly representative of Pakistani's as a whole.  What they are is criminals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a case of the Emperor's new clothes, where these vile things demand that others create an alternate reality and are ready to punish them lest they speak the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Telling the truth is not an "alternate reality" and insisting on rationality is hardly vile.  Your racism doesn't explain what seems to be a long standing British attitude in looking the other way when the perverts are VIP's.  It doesn't explain many of these other incidents coming to light that do not involve Muslims.  By painting it as a Muslim problem you are chopping off most of the real issue.  Is your real focus and concern on child abuse or is it on Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny. Coyote and her revolting ilk do everything in their power to ensure they continue by throwing up such an impenetrable cacophony of background noise that it becomes impossible to stop them without accusations of racism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are now descending into the realm of Stupid.  "Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny"?  Really now?  The men involved in these activities are largely doing it for money.  Human trafficking is a HUGE problem AROUND THE WORLD.  Or have you not realized that?  Modern media makes it easier for people to engage in it and profit from it.  Your silly statement doesn't even begin to explain how many of the "customers" abusing these children are not even of Pakistani origin.  Can you be any more racist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you live in the UK like I do, have you seen the Pakistani muslims grooming 11 year old girls and the police stood by while it goes on. Have you been threatened by the police and social services when you complain about the grooming and rape, then faced muslim gangs threatening you with violence. It is not done for money at all, it is done purely out of racism and hatred as a form of terrorism. It is showing the people that Pakistani muslims are superior to them and have the government in their pockets. Now the people are fighting back and are demanding the government does something to stop the abuse. All we want to see now is arrest warrants for the 250 Pakistani men that are laughing at the British justice system and bragging about getting away with murder. Yes that is what they have also done, been recorded saying so and the government released them and gave them compensation. The ones who are RACIST are those that try and defend the Pakistani muslim men and make claims that have no foundation in reality.
> 
> You want to know how many of the "customers" were not muslims, the answer is NONE. Every single one was a muslim adult male whether Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Afghani, Somali, Palestinian, Egyptian or any other muslim nationality you can think of. It is all part of the Islamic culture that see Islamic property as being muslim for ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry Coyote, but because of Muhammad and Aisha, marrying and having sexual relationships with children is not frowned upon in many Muslim dominated countries.  Why do you continue to deny this?  Why does this offend you so much?  It is just the truth.  The reason WHY we have so many issues is because of people who don't want to face the truth head on and would rather avoid it or make excuses for it.  I suppose now we will get a barrage of reports about British natives having been convicted for pedophilia, and yes, there are pedophiles of all ethnicities, but this is a rampant problem in some Muslim countries, so much so that human rights organizations are involved.
Click to expand...


It offends me because it's not the entire truth and people focus on religion and ignore the rest because it drives their own agenda which is to demonize the religion as one of pedophilia.

I don't disagree that religion *plays a part* in it but it's not the major part driving child marriages.  There are pedophiles in every culture and they are no more common in Islam than in Catholicism though Islam, does grant them more latitude.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> Do you  have an actual (unbiased) source showing how many girls  have been raped by Muslim men in the UK?
> 
> Are you promoting violence against British Muslims?



Come on, Coyote -- they are just Kaffir children to you and don't count, so why does it matter? 

All that matters is your protecting the rapists from criticism, and since all they raped were Kaffir Children, how dare anybody object, right?.


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you  have an actual (unbiased) source showing how many girls  have been raped by Muslim men in the UK?
> 
> Are you promoting violence against British Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Come on, Coyote -- they are just Kaffir children to you and don't count, so why does it matter?
> 
> All that matters is your protecting the rapists from criticism, and since all they raped were Kaffir Children, how dare anybody object, right?.
Click to expand...



Don't impose your personal bigotry on me.  All children matter.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> Don't impose your personal bigotry on me.  All children matter.




More taqiyya from an inveterate liar.  

 I have scraped better stuff than you off the bottom of my shoe.


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bel Ange,
> 
> Any society which takes religion too seriously opens itself up for outside manipulation. That is why western countries encourage fundamentalist leaders in many parts of the world. They are easy to coerce and take advantage of.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is also due to very poor and corrupt leadership in those countries that wants to keep the people at each others' throats and hating the rest of the world and blaming everyone else for their problems instead of their own corrupt leaders.  This is a great way for their leaders to take attention off of the things that they are doing.  Also, I believe that this is the reason why a lot of these countries have very poor education and amenities.  This is how THEY want things.  That is why it will never change, at least probably not in our lifetimes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True look at the corruption in the Indian sub continent where senior officials line their pockets every chance they get, a good example of corruption is Arafat who creamed $billions from Palestinian aid and felted it away in a Swiss account. His wife now lives in luxury in France, not bad for a terrorist is it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was a stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that is exactly what these dictators do.  Why are they not to blame for the condition of their own countries?  Why do people want to blame outside influences all the time?  The condition of those countries is the fault of no one else but the people who live there and cannot seem to get along and the dictators who are controlling them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree.  It is far more complex then that.  The conditions of those countries are built upon many factors.  You can't exclude foreign interference from that list.
> 
> For example - colonialism, which really didn't end for some countries until the 1960's and 70's left a mixed legacy behind.  Many colonial powers needed raw materials from those countries to ship to their own factories for value-added manufacturing.  Local manufacturing industries were destroyed and the economy built primarily upon the export of raw materials or agriculture.  That doesn't provide much value coming back to the people nor does it promote the growth of local industries. Add to that you have countries defined by artificial borders that force together ethnic and religious groups who have long hated each other.  You can see the results of that in the Balkan states when the USSR broke apart and conflict arose.  Sure you have huge amounts of corruption and democracies created without any of the necessary foundational institutions leading to life-time dictators.  It doesn't help either that foreign powers like the US support those very dictators when it's in our interest.  The problems are complicated.
Click to expand...


They were able to do all of these things because of weak leadership and infighting to begin with.  These warring tribes existed long before the 1800s.


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't impose your personal bigotry on me.  All children matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More taqiyya from an inveterate liar.
> 
> I have scraped better stuff than you off the bottom of my shoe.
Click to expand...


You are certainly entitled to your opinion, however little it may count for since you habitually make up stuff about other posters and never support it.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is also due to very poor and corrupt leadership in those countries that wants to keep the people at each others' throats and hating the rest of the world and blaming everyone else for their problems instead of their own corrupt leaders.  This is a great way for their leaders to take attention off of the things that they are doing.  Also, I believe that this is the reason why a lot of these countries have very poor education and amenities.  This is how THEY want things.  That is why it will never change, at least probably not in our lifetimes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True look at the corruption in the Indian sub continent where senior officials line their pockets every chance they get, a good example of corruption is Arafat who creamed $billions from Palestinian aid and felted it away in a Swiss account. His wife now lives in luxury in France, not bad for a terrorist is it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was a stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that is exactly what these dictators do.  Why are they not to blame for the condition of their own countries?  Why do people want to blame outside influences all the time?  The condition of those countries is the fault of no one else but the people who live there and cannot seem to get along and the dictators who are controlling them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree.  It is far more complex then that.  The conditions of those countries are built upon many factors.  You can't exclude foreign interference from that list.
> 
> For example - colonialism, which really didn't end for some countries until the 1960's and 70's left a mixed legacy behind.  Many colonial powers needed raw materials from those countries to ship to their own factories for value-added manufacturing.  Local manufacturing industries were destroyed and the economy built primarily upon the export of raw materials or agriculture.  That doesn't provide much value coming back to the people nor does it promote the growth of local industries. Add to that you have countries defined by artificial borders that force together ethnic and religious groups who have long hated each other.  You can see the results of that in the Balkan states when the USSR broke apart and conflict arose.  Sure you have huge amounts of corruption and democracies created without any of the necessary foundational institutions leading to life-time dictators.  It doesn't help either that foreign powers like the US support those very dictators when it's in our interest.  The problems are complicated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were able to do all of these things because of weak leadership and infighting to begin with.  These warring tribes existed long before the 1800s.
Click to expand...


Yes but they weren't forced together in the boundaries of one nation.  There are other factors as well.  For example in some countries, under colonial rule - one ethnic group was favored over another and priveledged.  When the powers left, all hell broke out.


----------



## ChrisL

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't impose your personal bigotry on me.  All children matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More taqiyya from an inveterate liar.
> 
> I have scraped better stuff than you off the bottom of my shoe.
Click to expand...


I disagree.


Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> True look at the corruption in the Indian sub continent where senior officials line their pockets every chance they get, a good example of corruption is Arafat who creamed $billions from Palestinian aid and felted it away in a Swiss account. His wife now lives in luxury in France, not bad for a terrorist is it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was a stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that is exactly what these dictators do.  Why are they not to blame for the condition of their own countries?  Why do people want to blame outside influences all the time?  The condition of those countries is the fault of no one else but the people who live there and cannot seem to get along and the dictators who are controlling them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree.  It is far more complex then that.  The conditions of those countries are built upon many factors.  You can't exclude foreign interference from that list.
> 
> For example - colonialism, which really didn't end for some countries until the 1960's and 70's left a mixed legacy behind.  Many colonial powers needed raw materials from those countries to ship to their own factories for value-added manufacturing.  Local manufacturing industries were destroyed and the economy built primarily upon the export of raw materials or agriculture.  That doesn't provide much value coming back to the people nor does it promote the growth of local industries. Add to that you have countries defined by artificial borders that force together ethnic and religious groups who have long hated each other.  You can see the results of that in the Balkan states when the USSR broke apart and conflict arose.  Sure you have huge amounts of corruption and democracies created without any of the necessary foundational institutions leading to life-time dictators.  It doesn't help either that foreign powers like the US support those very dictators when it's in our interest.  The problems are complicated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were able to do all of these things because of weak leadership and infighting to begin with.  These warring tribes existed long before the 1800s.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes but they weren't forced together in the boundaries of one nation.  There are other factors as well.  For example in some countries, under colonial rule - one ethnic group was favored over another and priveledged.  When the powers left, all hell broke out.
Click to expand...


They can only blame outside influences so much.  The problems come from within.  I think that much is quite obvious.  Should Americans still be angry with the British?  THAT is how stupid it is.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't impose your personal bigotry on me.  All children matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More taqiyya from an inveterate liar.
> 
> I have scraped better stuff than you off the bottom of my shoe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree.
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> That was a stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that is exactly what these dictators do.  Why are they not to blame for the condition of their own countries?  Why do people want to blame outside influences all the time?  The condition of those countries is the fault of no one else but the people who live there and cannot seem to get along and the dictators who are controlling them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree.  It is far more complex then that.  The conditions of those countries are built upon many factors.  You can't exclude foreign interference from that list.
> 
> For example - colonialism, which really didn't end for some countries until the 1960's and 70's left a mixed legacy behind.  Many colonial powers needed raw materials from those countries to ship to their own factories for value-added manufacturing.  Local manufacturing industries were destroyed and the economy built primarily upon the export of raw materials or agriculture.  That doesn't provide much value coming back to the people nor does it promote the growth of local industries. Add to that you have countries defined by artificial borders that force together ethnic and religious groups who have long hated each other.  You can see the results of that in the Balkan states when the USSR broke apart and conflict arose.  Sure you have huge amounts of corruption and democracies created without any of the necessary foundational institutions leading to life-time dictators.  It doesn't help either that foreign powers like the US support those very dictators when it's in our interest.  The problems are complicated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were able to do all of these things because of weak leadership and infighting to begin with.  These warring tribes existed long before the 1800s.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes but they weren't forced together in the boundaries of one nation.  There are other factors as well.  For example in some countries, under colonial rule - one ethnic group was favored over another and priveledged.  When the powers left, all hell broke out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They can only blame outside influences so much.  The problems come from within.  I think that much is quite obvious.  Should Americans still be angry with the British?  THAT is how stupid it is.
Click to expand...


Up to a point I agree, but we've had 250 years to make our peace.  Many of these countries have had only a couple of generations.


----------



## ChrisL

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you  have an actual (unbiased) source showing how many girls  have been raped by Muslim men in the UK?
> 
> Are you promoting violence against British Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Come on, Coyote -- they are just Kaffir children to you and don't count, so why does it matter?
> 
> All that matters is your protecting the rapists from criticism, and since all they raped were Kaffir Children, how dare anybody object, right?.
Click to expand...


I don't think she wants to protect rapists.


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't impose your personal bigotry on me.  All children matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More taqiyya from an inveterate liar.
> 
> I have scraped better stuff than you off the bottom of my shoe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree.
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> But that is exactly what these dictators do.  Why are they not to blame for the condition of their own countries?  Why do people want to blame outside influences all the time?  The condition of those countries is the fault of no one else but the people who live there and cannot seem to get along and the dictators who are controlling them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree.  It is far more complex then that.  The conditions of those countries are built upon many factors.  You can't exclude foreign interference from that list.
> 
> For example - colonialism, which really didn't end for some countries until the 1960's and 70's left a mixed legacy behind.  Many colonial powers needed raw materials from those countries to ship to their own factories for value-added manufacturing.  Local manufacturing industries were destroyed and the economy built primarily upon the export of raw materials or agriculture.  That doesn't provide much value coming back to the people nor does it promote the growth of local industries. Add to that you have countries defined by artificial borders that force together ethnic and religious groups who have long hated each other.  You can see the results of that in the Balkan states when the USSR broke apart and conflict arose.  Sure you have huge amounts of corruption and democracies created without any of the necessary foundational institutions leading to life-time dictators.  It doesn't help either that foreign powers like the US support those very dictators when it's in our interest.  The problems are complicated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were able to do all of these things because of weak leadership and infighting to begin with.  These warring tribes existed long before the 1800s.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes but they weren't forced together in the boundaries of one nation.  There are other factors as well.  For example in some countries, under colonial rule - one ethnic group was favored over another and priveledged.  When the powers left, all hell broke out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They can only blame outside influences so much.  The problems come from within.  I think that much is quite obvious.  Should Americans still be angry with the British?  THAT is how stupid it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Up to a point I agree, but we've had 250 years to make our peace.  Many of these countries have had only a couple of generations.
Click to expand...


But it isn't just Americans or the British.  They seem to have a lot of hate for everyone.


----------



## Coyote

One thing I do think - we, as Americans can't really understand.  We have always been Americans - we founded a country as one people for the most part.  The most serious divisions we had were during the civil war.  And even with racial and ethnic difficulties - we all consider ourselves Americans first and foremost.  You take other countries - the Balkans, the Middle East and you have ancient ethnic groups that have existed as either independent nations, or parts of many other nations depending on the period of history and who conquored what.  So, take Iraq...well...Iraqi Kurds might be Kurds first and Iraqi's second.  I'm just thinking we have no real concept of this - we've never lived it.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

ChrisL said:


> I don't think she wants to protect rapists.




She attacks anybody who points to the cultural influences that produce them, and will not acknowledge who is responsible.

That is protection.  

 Just because states she is doing something other than what she is doing, you shouldn't be taken in.


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think she wants to protect rapists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She attacks anybody who points to the cultural influences that produce them, and will not acknowledge who is responsible.
> 
> That is protection.
> 
> Just because states she is doing something other than what she is doing, you shouldn't be taken in.
Click to expand...


I don't discount culture.


----------



## Coyote

Ultimately the ones responsible for rapes are the rapists.  The ones responsible for human traffickers are human traffickers.  Mixed in you have those who purchase the services and those who look the other way and those who protect the purchasers and traffickers.

That's where responsibility lies.


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> One thing I do think - we, as Americans can't really understand.  We have always been Americans - we founded a country as one people for the most part.  The most serious divisions we had were during the civil war.  And even with racial and ethnic difficulties - we all consider ourselves Americans first and foremost.  You take other countries - the Balkans, the Middle East and you have ancient ethnic groups that have existed as either independent nations, or parts of many other nations depending on the period of history and who conquored what.  So, take Iraq...well...Iraqi Kurds might be Kurds first and Iraqi's second.  I'm just thinking we have no real concept of this - we've never lived it.



This is kind of my point.  These people cannot even manage to cooperate enough to make their own countries succeed.  They would rather hold onto their ancient traditions and their patriarchal society than join the rest of us in the modern world.  They despise us for our successes where they have failed.  They despise us for our values (or LACK of, in their eyes), amongst other things.  They certainly don't take us seriously.  Everywhere there is a large enough percentage of them is when trouble starts.  Yes, we certainly have our OWN problems.  We don't need to import them from another country.


----------



## Coyote

You mean a large enough percentage of Muslims? If so, I disagree.  Muslims aren't one culture.  Pakistani's are not Bangladeshi's are not Somali's are not Indonesians.


----------



## Coyote

I will say - I'm exceedingly glad to be a citizen of a country with a constitution that balances power, protects rights and works; and a government that can be held accountable to it's people however cumbersome the process can be at times; and a justice system that works and is remarkably free of corruption.  I am fortunate that religion is seperate from governance.  Too may places around the world that is not true.


----------



## Mindful

*Why Did British Police Ignore Pakistani Gangs Abusing 1,400 Rotherham Children? *
*
A story of rampant child abuse—ignored and abetted by the police—is emerging out of the British town of Rotherham. Until now, its scale and scope would have been inconceivable in a civilized country.  Its origins, however, lie in something quite ordinary: what one Labour MP called “not wanting to rock the multicultural community boat.”*

*Imagine the following case......... *

*Welcome to Forbes*


----------



## Vikrant

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is also due to very poor and corrupt leadership in those countries that wants to keep the people at each others' throats and hating the rest of the world and blaming everyone else for their problems instead of their own corrupt leaders.  This is a great way for their leaders to take attention off of the things that they are doing.  Also, I believe that this is the reason why a lot of these countries have very poor education and amenities.  This is how THEY want things.  That is why it will never change, at least probably not in our lifetimes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True look at the corruption in the Indian sub continent where senior officials line their pockets every chance they get, a good example of corruption is Arafat who creamed $billions from Palestinian aid and felted it away in a Swiss account. His wife now lives in luxury in France, not bad for a terrorist is it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was a stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that is exactly what these dictators do.  Why are they not to blame for the condition of their own countries?  Why do people want to blame outside influences all the time?  The condition of those countries is the fault of no one else but the people who live there and cannot seem to get along and the dictators who are controlling them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree.  It is far more complex then that.  The conditions of those countries are built upon many factors.  You can't exclude foreign interference from that list.
> 
> For example - colonialism, which really didn't end for some countries until the 1960's and 70's left a mixed legacy behind.  Many colonial powers needed raw materials from those countries to ship to their own factories for value-added manufacturing.  Local manufacturing industries were destroyed and the economy built primarily upon the export of raw materials or agriculture.  That doesn't provide much value coming back to the people nor does it promote the growth of local industries. Add to that you have countries defined by artificial borders that force together ethnic and religious groups who have long hated each other.  You can see the results of that in the Balkan states when the USSR broke apart and conflict arose.  Sure you have huge amounts of corruption and democracies created without any of the necessary foundational institutions leading to life-time dictators.  It doesn't help either that foreign powers like the US support those very dictators when it's in our interest.  The problems are complicated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were able to do all of these things because of weak leadership and infighting to begin with.  These warring tribes existed long before the 1800s.
Click to expand...


Vous êtes tout aussi intelligents que vous êtes belle


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> I will say - I'm exceedingly glad to be a citizen of a country with a constitution that balances power, protects rights and works; and a government that can be held accountable to it's people however cumbersome the process can be at times; and a justice system that works and is remarkably free of corruption.  I am fortunate that religion is seperate from governance.  Too may places around the world that is not true.



I couldn't agree more.  Personal beliefs and emotions have no place in governing, IMO.  We might not be perfect, but I'd never want to live anywhere else either.


----------



## Mindful

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will say - I'm exceedingly glad to be a citizen of a country with a constitution that balances power, protects rights and works; and a government that can be held accountable to it's people however cumbersome the process can be at times; and a justice system that works and is remarkably free of corruption.  I am fortunate that religion is seperate from governance.  Too may places around the world that is not true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't agree more.  Personal beliefs and emotions have no place in governing, IMO.  We might not be perfect, but I'd never want to live anywhere else either.
Click to expand...



These systems are only as good as those entrusted to uphold them.

In the case of the UK system of care and protection, from the Forbes piece.


*Social workers tell girls they cannot help them

Meanwhile she must accept weekly abuse, in return for drugs and alcohol. Soon she finds herself being taken to other towns in the area, and hired out for sexual purposes to other men. She is distraught and depressed, and at the point when she can stand it no longer, she goes to the police. She can only stutter a few words, and cannot bring herself to accuse anyone in particular. Her complaint is dismissed on the grounds that any sex involved must have been consensual. The social worker in charge of her case listens to her complaint, but tells her that she cannot act unless the girl identifies her abusers. But when the girl describes them the social worker switches off with a shrug and says that she can do nothing. Her father, his drug habit notwithstanding, has tried to keep contact with his daughter and suspects what is happening. But when he goes to the police, he is arrested for obstruction and charged with wasting police time.*


----------



## ChrisL

Mindful said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will say - I'm exceedingly glad to be a citizen of a country with a constitution that balances power, protects rights and works; and a government that can be held accountable to it's people however cumbersome the process can be at times; and a justice system that works and is remarkably free of corruption.  I am fortunate that religion is seperate from governance.  Too may places around the world that is not true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't agree more.  Personal beliefs and emotions have no place in governing, IMO.  We might not be perfect, but I'd never want to live anywhere else either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> These systems are only as good as those entrusted to uphold them.
> 
> In the case of the UK system of care and protection, from the Forbes piece.
> 
> 
> *Social workers tell girls they cannot help them
> 
> Meanwhile she must accept weekly abuse, in return for drugs and alcohol. Soon she finds herself being taken to other towns in the area, and hired out for sexual purposes to other men. She is distraught and depressed, and at the point when she can stand it no longer, she goes to the police. She can only stutter a few words, and cannot bring herself to accuse anyone in particular. Her complaint is dismissed on the grounds that any sex involved must have been consensual. The social worker in charge of her case listens to her complaint, but tells her that she cannot act unless the girl identifies her abusers. But when the girl describes them the social worker switches off with a shrug and says that she can do nothing. Her father, his drug habit notwithstanding, has tried to keep contact with his daughter and suspects what is happening. But when he goes to the police, he is arrested for obstruction and charged with wasting police time.*
Click to expand...


Of course, there is bound to be corruption sometimes, but the point is our system (here in America anyway) is a heck of a lot better than a lot of others.


----------



## Mindful

ChrisL said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will say - I'm exceedingly glad to be a citizen of a country with a constitution that balances power, protects rights and works; and a government that can be held accountable to it's people however cumbersome the process can be at times; and a justice system that works and is remarkably free of corruption.  I am fortunate that religion is seperate from governance.  Too may places around the world that is not true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't agree more.  Personal beliefs and emotions have no place in governing, IMO.  We might not be perfect, but I'd never want to live anywhere else either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> These systems are only as good as those entrusted to uphold them.
> 
> In the case of the UK system of care and protection, from the Forbes piece.
> 
> 
> *Social workers tell girls they cannot help them
> 
> Meanwhile she must accept weekly abuse, in return for drugs and alcohol. Soon she finds herself being taken to other towns in the area, and hired out for sexual purposes to other men. She is distraught and depressed, and at the point when she can stand it no longer, she goes to the police. She can only stutter a few words, and cannot bring herself to accuse anyone in particular. Her complaint is dismissed on the grounds that any sex involved must have been consensual. The social worker in charge of her case listens to her complaint, but tells her that she cannot act unless the girl identifies her abusers. But when the girl describes them the social worker switches off with a shrug and says that she can do nothing. Her father, his drug habit notwithstanding, has tried to keep contact with his daughter and suspects what is happening. But when he goes to the police, he is arrested for obstruction and charged with wasting police time.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course, there is bound to be corruption sometimes, but the point is our system (here in America anyway) is a heck of a lot better than a lot of others.
Click to expand...



What happened in Britain was unforgivable, and should not have happened.


----------



## Phoenall

Vikrant said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bel Ange,
> 
> Any society which takes religion too seriously opens itself up for outside manipulation. That is why western countries encourage fundamentalist leaders in many parts of the world. They are easy to coerce and take advantage of.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is also due to very poor and corrupt leadership in those countries that wants to keep the people at each others' throats and hating the rest of the world and blaming everyone else for their problems instead of their own corrupt leaders.  This is a great way for their leaders to take attention off of the things that they are doing.  Also, I believe that this is the reason why a lot of these countries have very poor education and amenities.  This is how THEY want things.  That is why it will never change, at least probably not in our lifetimes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True look at the corruption in the Indian sub continent where senior officials line their pockets every chance they get, a good example of corruption is Arafat who creamed $billions from Palestinian aid and felted it away in a Swiss account. His wife now lives in luxury in France, not bad for a terrorist is it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was a stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WHY ? because it tells the truth. Even the UK government and media have commented on the fact the biggest majority of UK aid to Pakistan goes into the pockets of its leaders. Just as the world knew all about Arafat and his $millions stashed in a Swiss bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now you are creating a straw man.
> 
> Yes, UK's money should be used to make the lives of people in UK better. It should not go to Pakistan or any other country. Nobody is saying anything contrary - at least I am not.
> 
> ---
> 
> Birmingham's first Islamic school 'spent £1m of public money on school in Pakistan'
> 
> Birmingham s first Islamic school spent 1m of public money on school in Pakistan - Education News - Education - The Independent
Click to expand...




 Trying to deflect and failing the fact is very little if any aid makes it to the people that need it, and just recently  people in the UK are asking why Pakistan has so much poverty when it can send rockets to mars. Cut the rocket programme and bring the country out of poverty, then stamp out corruption and backhanders.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^ There are lots of men who have seriously antagonistic attitude towards women. Men of this type are willing to do horrible things to women and sexual exploitation or sexual slavery is certainly not off the limit for them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just look at countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, where the whole country is broken up into "tribes" so to speak, and they are constantly fighting about . . . who knows what?  It's been that way for what might as well be forever there and shows no signs of changing any time soon.  What makes you think they can get along with anyone else?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because when they immigrate, they often adopt western values and get along.
Click to expand...




 Never seen it in the UK in all the years I have lived here. What I have seen is muslim enclaves and ghettos of their own making, segregation in schools by muslims and increasing racism coming from the muslims. As I keep telling you unless you live with the muslim problem you don't know what you are talking about. And don't claim you can read the papers as they wont publish the 100 rapes, 200 beatings and 10 murders at the hands of muslims last night. Nor will they publish the accounts of the gang wars in inner cities across the UK as Pakistanis fight to control drugs and prostitution


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since when has it been racist to speak the truth, and that is what is upsetting you the fact that you know it is the truth. Your cries of racist to suppress the truth no longer work as far too many people are checking for themselves and seeing the real islam. The one that is being RACIST is you by trying to cover up the reality of 3rd world cultures living in the 7C practising child sex abuse in the 21C
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking the truth is racist when those making such an accusation do so as a deliberate attempt to ensure the situation is allowed to continue. I don't really think Vikrant is doing this, mind you, but Coyote sure is.
> 
> When hearing of Islamic men singling out vulnerable British children for sexual abuse, any sort of decent person is horrified and wants to know how the situation was allowed for so long as it was.  It takes a special type of monster to show such solidarity with the perps that they devote themselves to creating the very situation that enabled it.
> 
> Coyote does not call people racist because she is simply a useful idiot. She does it quite knowingly and with full intent. This is a calculated, mindful agenda at work here, and not just the babbling of a bleeding heart whose heart bleeds for anybody but the victims. This creature does not give a rats ass about these British children -- only in making it impossible to protect them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ...still giving me so much head space?  You're too funny.  So now I'm some sort of evil Jihadi Islamist anti-semitic infiltrator who supports the abuse of children?
> 
> Your thought disorder gets more and more blatent the more you spew.
Click to expand...





 Personal abuse because you are being made to think about your POV.  Now can you bring yourself to announce your disgust and feelings for the teachings of islam that says girls are commodities to be cast aside and that non muslims girls are to be taken as slaves to emulate the perfect muslim.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you, or do you not see the world as it really is watching it through your rose tinted spectacles from your ivory tower. There is no deliberate ,misrepresentation of the facts as the facts speak for themselves. In Scandanavian countries the muslim population is around 10% in total, yet the number of muslim  rapes is over 50% of the total. Care to explain why this is and how it is a misrepresentation. The facts now are that many Europeans are not reporting rapes and serious sexual assaults as it is a complete waste of time, the culprits cry racism and are allowed to walk free. Is that right or is it pandering to a minority because they issue threats of violence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The way I look at it is that Coyote either is or is not Muslim.  Considering the dishonest agenda here, it is impossible to tell.
> 
> If Muslim, then all the propaganda is intentional. It is right out of the C.A.I.R.  handbook.
> 
> If not Muslim, then Coyote is, at best, a useful idiot, motivated by the need to feel good about herself (if, indeed, female)  by this constant championing of anything to do with Islam.  Some people just need a cause no matter how stupid, destructive and misguided, and her calling people racist is a projection of her own manifest hatred of anything that is not part of her Islamic cause.  Of course, she supports all manner of vile, racist behavior as long as it is a Muslim doing it, but that doesn't stop her from seeking a sense of virtuousness by calling others racist for telling the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So can you address any of the points being made in a rational manner or is that beyond your capacity?
> 
> Pedophile rings operating in the UK for years because the main violators are celebrities, politicians, doctors, policemen?  That seems a huge issue and not an Islamic issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Strange that these only came to the attention of the people after the Pakistani muslim men were being arrested and charged, and the full scale of the problem was being seen. How many girls have been raped in the UK by Pakistani muslim men 2 million, 4 million or even 10 million That is the scale of the problem and because the numbers are huge people struggle to get their heads round them. The belief in the UK is that high profile celebrities are being outed to take the muslims of the radar before civil unrest starts in the UK and the muslim get a taste of their own medicine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you  have an actual (unbiased) source showing how many girls  have been raped by Muslim men in the UK?
> 
> Are you promoting violence against British Muslims?
Click to expand...




 Non e exist's as of yet, but take the cases we know about and agree with and if you look at those and extrapolate you get figures close to the million mark or higher.   Rotherham 1400 girls take that as the benchmark and multiply it by the other 300 towns and cities in the north west and you get 420,000 and there are over 20,000 cities and towns in the UK. As the many cases have shown these are not isolated incidents but a widespread concerted effort to terrorise the young of the UK so the eventual takeover will be easier. If the young are terrorised they wont fight making the civil war so much easier. This is a common muslim method of land theft.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is the lack of response to the mistreatment that is just as horrible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agree.  It's the cover up and the way this has been allowed to go unchanged for so many years largely because the people involved are VIP's.  When the coverup includes law enforcement and politicians it's particularly revolting - those are the very people who are supposed to be protecting the citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With so many creatures such as Coyote frothing at the mouth about "Islamophobia" on a veritable witch hunt to stamp out any possibility that Muslims can ever be held accountable for what they do and to try to intimidate people into silence, an entire culture has sprung up where people have been so beaten into submission by the bullying that they refuse to see what is before their very eyes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's humorous the amount of headspace you give me rent free with your obsession.  Islamophobia is like anti-semitism and it lends itself to witch hunts and a complete disregard for rational discourse.  For example - this - what occurred in Rotherham.
> 
> The people running the ring and supplying the victims to perverts were mostly Pakistani.  Criticism was rightly levied at the police for being reluctant to pursue this fully for fear of being charged with racism.  That has definately got to change - crimes like this should not be in anyway affect by PC in terms of who is questioned or pursued.
> 
> The real racism is people who use this and insist it's a "Muslim pedophile epidemic" and a "Muslim problem".  As if Muslims around the world are identical regardless of culture.  In this case the perpetrators were almost overwelmingly Pakistani.  Just one of many Muslim immigrant groups in the UK and in numbers hardly representative of Pakistani's as a whole.  What they are is criminals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a case of the Emperor's new clothes, where these vile things demand that others create an alternate reality and are ready to punish them lest they speak the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Telling the truth is not an "alternate reality" and insisting on rationality is hardly vile.  Your racism doesn't explain what seems to be a long standing British attitude in looking the other way when the perverts are VIP's.  It doesn't explain many of these other incidents coming to light that do not involve Muslims.  By painting it as a Muslim problem you are chopping off most of the real issue.  Is your real focus and concern on child abuse or is it on Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny. Coyote and her revolting ilk do everything in their power to ensure they continue by throwing up such an impenetrable cacophony of background noise that it becomes impossible to stop them without accusations of racism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are now descending into the realm of Stupid.  "Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny"?  Really now?  The men involved in these activities are largely doing it for money.  Human trafficking is a HUGE problem AROUND THE WORLD.  Or have you not realized that?  Modern media makes it easier for people to engage in it and profit from it.  Your silly statement doesn't even begin to explain how many of the "customers" abusing these children are not even of Pakistani origin.  Can you be any more racist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you live in the UK like I do, have you seen the Pakistani muslims grooming 11 year old girls and the police stood by while it goes on. Have you been threatened by the police and social services when you complain about the grooming and rape, then faced muslim gangs threatening you with violence. It is not done for money at all, it is done purely out of racism and hatred as a form of terrorism. It is showing the people that Pakistani muslims are superior to them and have the government in their pockets. Now the people are fighting back and are demanding the government does something to stop the abuse. All we want to see now is arrest warrants for the 250 Pakistani men that are laughing at the British justice system and bragging about getting away with murder. Yes that is what they have also done, been recorded saying so and the government released them and gave them compensation. The ones who are RACIST are those that try and defend the Pakistani muslim men and make claims that have no foundation in reality.
> 
> You want to know how many of the "customers" were not muslims, the answer is NONE. Every single one was a muslim adult male whether Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Afghani, Somali, Palestinian, Egyptian or any other muslim nationality you can think of. It is all part of the Islamic culture that see Islamic property as being muslim for ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry Coyote, but because of Muhammad and Aisha, marrying and having sexual relationships with children is not frowned upon in many Muslim dominated countries.  Why do you continue to deny this?  Why does this offend you so much?  It is just the truth.  The reason WHY we have so many issues is because of people who don't want to face the truth head on and would rather avoid it or make excuses for it.  I suppose now we will get a barrage of reports about British natives having been convicted for pedophilia, and yes, there are pedophiles of all ethnicities, but this is a rampant problem in some Muslim countries, so much so that human rights organizations are involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It offends me because it's not the entire truth and people focus on religion and ignore the rest because it drives their own agenda which is to demonize the religion as one of pedophilia.
> 
> I don't disagree that religion *plays a part* in it but it's not the major part driving child marriages.  There are pedophiles in every culture and they are no more common in Islam than in Catholicism though Islam, does grant them more latitude.
Click to expand...





 Ignoring the evidence instead of looking at why you support and defend islam again. If a religion has it as a basic command that they should marry very young girls and take non muslim girls as sex slaves then it has a problem. The problem is expounded when the participants declare that they cant alter the word of god and will not ignore those commands because the country they live in does not like them. Every adult male muslim is a potential child abuser because of their beliefs, not every Catholic adult male is a child abuser because they don't have it as their religion. Even secular Turkey still practises child marriage even though it is against the law.


----------



## Phoenall

Mindful said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will say - I'm exceedingly glad to be a citizen of a country with a constitution that balances power, protects rights and works; and a government that can be held accountable to it's people however cumbersome the process can be at times; and a justice system that works and is remarkably free of corruption.  I am fortunate that religion is seperate from governance.  Too may places around the world that is not true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't agree more.  Personal beliefs and emotions have no place in governing, IMO.  We might not be perfect, but I'd never want to live anywhere else either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> These systems are only as good as those entrusted to uphold them.
> 
> In the case of the UK system of care and protection, from the Forbes piece.
> 
> 
> *Social workers tell girls they cannot help them
> 
> Meanwhile she must accept weekly abuse, in return for drugs and alcohol. Soon she finds herself being taken to other towns in the area, and hired out for sexual purposes to other men. She is distraught and depressed, and at the point when she can stand it no longer, she goes to the police. She can only stutter a few words, and cannot bring herself to accuse anyone in particular. Her complaint is dismissed on the grounds that any sex involved must have been consensual. The social worker in charge of her case listens to her complaint, but tells her that she cannot act unless the girl identifies her abusers. But when the girl describes them the social worker switches off with a shrug and says that she can do nothing. Her father, his drug habit notwithstanding, has tried to keep contact with his daughter and suspects what is happening. But when he goes to the police, he is arrested for obstruction and charged with wasting police time.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course, there is bound to be corruption sometimes, but the point is our system (here in America anyway) is a heck of a lot better than a lot of others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What happened in Britain was unforgivable, and should not have happened.
Click to expand...





 What happened in the UK was a planed and instigated attack at grass roots level by a government that did not care about its own people, only its power. They threw every schoolgirl over the age of 11 into the lions den while importing more lions in return for a few measly votes. That is all those girls meant to the Labour party elite, a hand full of votes. The champagne socialists should be arrested en masse and charged with corruption.


----------



## ChrisL

Mindful said:


> ChrisL said:
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> Mindful said:
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> ChrisL said:
> 
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> Coyote said:
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> 
> 
> I will say - I'm exceedingly glad to be a citizen of a country with a constitution that balances power, protects rights and works; and a government that can be held accountable to it's people however cumbersome the process can be at times; and a justice system that works and is remarkably free of corruption.  I am fortunate that religion is seperate from governance.  Too may places around the world that is not true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't agree more.  Personal beliefs and emotions have no place in governing, IMO.  We might not be perfect, but I'd never want to live anywhere else either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> These systems are only as good as those entrusted to uphold them.
> 
> In the case of the UK system of care and protection, from the Forbes piece.
> 
> 
> *Social workers tell girls they cannot help them
> 
> Meanwhile she must accept weekly abuse, in return for drugs and alcohol. Soon she finds herself being taken to other towns in the area, and hired out for sexual purposes to other men. She is distraught and depressed, and at the point when she can stand it no longer, she goes to the police. She can only stutter a few words, and cannot bring herself to accuse anyone in particular. Her complaint is dismissed on the grounds that any sex involved must have been consensual. The social worker in charge of her case listens to her complaint, but tells her that she cannot act unless the girl identifies her abusers. But when the girl describes them the social worker switches off with a shrug and says that she can do nothing. Her father, his drug habit notwithstanding, has tried to keep contact with his daughter and suspects what is happening. But when he goes to the police, he is arrested for obstruction and charged with wasting police time.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course, there is bound to be corruption sometimes, but the point is our system (here in America anyway) is a heck of a lot better than a lot of others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What happened in Britain was unforgivable, and should not have happened.
Click to expand...


Okay, I agree, but I don't see what that has to do with my side conversation with Coyote.


----------



## Mindful

It was merely a comment.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> I will say - I'm exceedingly glad to be a citizen of a country with a constitution that balances power, protects rights and works; and a government that can be held accountable to it's people however cumbersome the process can be at times; and a justice system that works and is remarkably free of corruption.  I am fortunate that religion is seperate from governance.  Too may places around the world that is not true.




The truth of the matter is that you are exceedingly prone to indulging in these sorts of dishonest, grandstanding statements such as this that fly completely in the face of your longstanding established pattern of behavior.


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will say - I'm exceedingly glad to be a citizen of a country with a constitution that balances power, protects rights and works; and a government that can be held accountable to it's people however cumbersome the process can be at times; and a justice system that works and is remarkably free of corruption.  I am fortunate that religion is seperate from governance.  Too may places around the world that is not true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The truth of the matter is that you are exceedingly prone to indulging in these sorts of dishonest, grandstanding statements such as this that fly completely in the face of your longstanding established pattern of behavior.
Click to expand...


Are you always such a putz?


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## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> ChrisL said:
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> Coyote said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Agree.  It's the cover up and the way this has been allowed to go unchanged for so many years largely because the people involved are VIP's.  When the coverup includes law enforcement and politicians it's particularly revolting - those are the very people who are supposed to be protecting the citizens.
> 
> It's humorous the amount of headspace you give me rent free with your obsession.  Islamophobia is like anti-semitism and it lends itself to witch hunts and a complete disregard for rational discourse.  For example - this - what occurred in Rotherham.
> 
> The people running the ring and supplying the victims to perverts were mostly Pakistani.  Criticism was rightly levied at the police for being reluctant to pursue this fully for fear of being charged with racism.  That has definately got to change - crimes like this should not be in anyway affect by PC in terms of who is questioned or pursued.
> 
> The real racism is people who use this and insist it's a "Muslim pedophile epidemic" and a "Muslim problem".  As if Muslims around the world are identical regardless of culture.  In this case the perpetrators were almost overwelmingly Pakistani.  Just one of many Muslim immigrant groups in the UK and in numbers hardly representative of Pakistani's as a whole.  What they are is criminals.
> 
> Telling the truth is not an "alternate reality" and insisting on rationality is hardly vile.  Your racism doesn't explain what seems to be a long standing British attitude in looking the other way when the perverts are VIP's.  It doesn't explain many of these other incidents coming to light that do not involve Muslims.  By painting it as a Muslim problem you are chopping off most of the real issue.  Is your real focus and concern on child abuse or is it on Muslims?
> 
> You are now descending into the realm of Stupid.  "Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny"?  Really now?  The men involved in these activities are largely doing it for money.  Human trafficking is a HUGE problem AROUND THE WORLD.  Or have you not realized that?  Modern media makes it easier for people to engage in it and profit from it.  Your silly statement doesn't even begin to explain how many of the "customers" abusing these children are not even of Pakistani origin.  Can you be any more racist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you live in the UK like I do, have you seen the Pakistani muslims grooming 11 year old girls and the police stood by while it goes on. Have you been threatened by the police and social services when you complain about the grooming and rape, then faced muslim gangs threatening you with violence. It is not done for money at all, it is done purely out of racism and hatred as a form of terrorism. It is showing the people that Pakistani muslims are superior to them and have the government in their pockets. Now the people are fighting back and are demanding the government does something to stop the abuse. All we want to see now is arrest warrants for the 250 Pakistani men that are laughing at the British justice system and bragging about getting away with murder. Yes that is what they have also done, been recorded saying so and the government released them and gave them compensation. The ones who are RACIST are those that try and defend the Pakistani muslim men and make claims that have no foundation in reality.
> 
> You want to know how many of the "customers" were not muslims, the answer is NONE. Every single one was a muslim adult male whether Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Afghani, Somali, Palestinian, Egyptian or any other muslim nationality you can think of. It is all part of the Islamic culture that see Islamic property as being muslim for ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry Coyote, but because of Muhammad and Aisha, marrying and having sexual relationships with children is not frowned upon in many Muslim dominated countries.  Why do you continue to deny this?  Why does this offend you so much?  It is just the truth.  The reason WHY we have so many issues is because of people who don't want to face the truth head on and would rather avoid it or make excuses for it.  I suppose now we will get a barrage of reports about British natives having been convicted for pedophilia, and yes, there are pedophiles of all ethnicities, but this is a rampant problem in some Muslim countries, so much so that human rights organizations are involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It offends me because it's not the entire truth and people focus on religion and ignore the rest because it drives their own agenda which is to demonize the religion as one of pedophilia.
> 
> I don't disagree that religion *plays a part* in it but it's not the major part driving child marriages.  There are pedophiles in every culture and they are no more common in Islam than in Catholicism though Islam, does grant them more latitude.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ignoring the evidence* instead of looking at why you support and defend islam again. If a religion has it as a basic command that they should marry very young girls and take non muslim girls as sex slaves then it has a problem. The problem is expounded when the participants declare that they cant alter the word of god and will not ignore those commands because the country they live in does not like them. *Every adult male muslim is a potential child abuser because of their beliefs*, not every Catholic adult male is a child abuser because they don't have it as their religion. Even secular Turkey still practises child marriage even though it is against the law.
Click to expand...


That is total bullshit.

If that were the case child-marriages (of pre-pubescent girls) would be the NORM in all Muslim majority countries and you wouldn't have Muslims themselves fighting to end child marriages in their own countries.  Look up the average ages of marriage in those countries.

Pedophiles will find a way to get children - regardless of whether they are Muslim and in a region that allows child marriages or a Catholic in an occupation that allows them close access with children.  Men who aren't pedophiles have no desire to have sex with children whether they are Muslim, Catholic or Athiest.


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> Coyote said:
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> Dogmaphobe said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> 
> 
> Do you, or do you not see the world as it really is watching it through your rose tinted spectacles from your ivory tower. There is no deliberate ,misrepresentation of the facts as the facts speak for themselves. In Scandanavian countries the muslim population is around 10% in total, yet the number of muslim  rapes is over 50% of the total. Care to explain why this is and how it is a misrepresentation. The facts now are that many Europeans are not reporting rapes and serious sexual assaults as it is a complete waste of time, the culprits cry racism and are allowed to walk free. Is that right or is it pandering to a minority because they issue threats of violence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The way I look at it is that Coyote either is or is not Muslim.  Considering the dishonest agenda here, it is impossible to tell.
> 
> If Muslim, then all the propaganda is intentional. It is right out of the C.A.I.R.  handbook.
> 
> If not Muslim, then Coyote is, at best, a useful idiot, motivated by the need to feel good about herself (if, indeed, female)  by this constant championing of anything to do with Islam.  Some people just need a cause no matter how stupid, destructive and misguided, and her calling people racist is a projection of her own manifest hatred of anything that is not part of her Islamic cause.  Of course, she supports all manner of vile, racist behavior as long as it is a Muslim doing it, but that doesn't stop her from seeking a sense of virtuousness by calling others racist for telling the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So can you address any of the points being made in a rational manner or is that beyond your capacity?
> 
> Pedophile rings operating in the UK for years because the main violators are celebrities, politicians, doctors, policemen?  That seems a huge issue and not an Islamic issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Strange that these only came to the attention of the people after the Pakistani muslim men were being arrested and charged, and the full scale of the problem was being seen. How many girls have been raped in the UK by Pakistani muslim men 2 million, 4 million or even 10 million That is the scale of the problem and because the numbers are huge people struggle to get their heads round them. The belief in the UK is that high profile celebrities are being outed to take the muslims of the radar before civil unrest starts in the UK and the muslim get a taste of their own medicine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you  have an actual (unbiased) source showing how many girls  have been raped by Muslim men in the UK?
> 
> Are you promoting violence against British Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Non e exist's as of yet, but take the cases we know about and agree with and if you look at those and extrapolate you get figures close to the million mark or higher.   Rotherham 1400 girls take that as the benchmark and multiply it by the other 300 towns and cities in the north west and you get 420,000 and there are over 20,000 cities and towns in the UK. As the many cases have shown these are not isolated incidents but a widespread concerted effort to terrorise the young of the UK so the eventual takeover will be easier. If the young are terrorised they wont fight making the civil war so much easier. This is a common muslim method of land theft.
Click to expand...


So you have no sources to support your claims in other words.  "A common Muslim method of landtheft"  That's the biggest load of baloney I've ever heard.

Sex trafficking has been around long before Muslim immigrants in the UK and the perpetrators have represented a wide variety of ethnic groups.  Teen girls have always been vulnerable particularly those that come from rough backgrounds, broken homes, illegal immigrants or are in otherwise fragile circumstances.  Here, in the US, it goes on all the time - it's almost impossible to end it, only keep a lid on it.  If it's not the Pakistani's and Somali's doing it, it's the East Europeans - it's like the drug trade - there's a lot of money involved and well established criminal gangs.


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## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> Coyote said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> 
> 
> Do you live in the UK like I do, have you seen the Pakistani muslims grooming 11 year old girls and the police stood by while it goes on. Have you been threatened by the police and social services when you complain about the grooming and rape, then faced muslim gangs threatening you with violence. It is not done for money at all, it is done purely out of racism and hatred as a form of terrorism. It is showing the people that Pakistani muslims are superior to them and have the government in their pockets. Now the people are fighting back and are demanding the government does something to stop the abuse. All we want to see now is arrest warrants for the 250 Pakistani men that are laughing at the British justice system and bragging about getting away with murder. Yes that is what they have also done, been recorded saying so and the government released them and gave them compensation. The ones who are RACIST are those that try and defend the Pakistani muslim men and make claims that have no foundation in reality.
> 
> You want to know how many of the "customers" were not muslims, the answer is NONE. Every single one was a muslim adult male whether Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Afghani, Somali, Palestinian, Egyptian or any other muslim nationality you can think of. It is all part of the Islamic culture that see Islamic property as being muslim for ever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry Coyote, but because of Muhammad and Aisha, marrying and having sexual relationships with children is not frowned upon in many Muslim dominated countries.  Why do you continue to deny this?  Why does this offend you so much?  It is just the truth.  The reason WHY we have so many issues is because of people who don't want to face the truth head on and would rather avoid it or make excuses for it.  I suppose now we will get a barrage of reports about British natives having been convicted for pedophilia, and yes, there are pedophiles of all ethnicities, but this is a rampant problem in some Muslim countries, so much so that human rights organizations are involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It offends me because it's not the entire truth and people focus on religion and ignore the rest because it drives their own agenda which is to demonize the religion as one of pedophilia.
> 
> I don't disagree that religion *plays a part* in it but it's not the major part driving child marriages.  There are pedophiles in every culture and they are no more common in Islam than in Catholicism though Islam, does grant them more latitude.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ignoring the evidence* instead of looking at why you support and defend islam again. If a religion has it as a basic command that they should marry very young girls and take non muslim girls as sex slaves then it has a problem. The problem is expounded when the participants declare that they cant alter the word of god and will not ignore those commands because the country they live in does not like them. *Every adult male muslim is a potential child abuser because of their beliefs*, not every Catholic adult male is a child abuser because they don't have it as their religion. Even secular Turkey still practises child marriage even though it is against the law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is total bullshit.
> 
> If that were the case child-marriages (of pre-pubescent girls) would be the NORM in all Muslim majority countries and you wouldn't have Muslims themselves fighting to end child marriages in their own countries.  Look up the average ages of marriage in those countries.
> 
> Pedophiles will find a way to get children - regardless of whether they are Muslim and in a region that allows child marriages or a Catholic in an occupation that allows them close access with children.  Men who aren't pedophiles have no desire to have sex with children whether they are Muslim, Catholic or Athiest.
Click to expand...


You are wrong about them.  Would you trust one with your daughter?  

Muslim clerics resist Pakistan s efforts to end child marriage - The Washington Post

LAHORE, Pakistan — When police raided a marriage ceremony in Karachi on Wednesday (May 14) and found a 46-year-old groom about to marry his 14-year-old bride, the wedding didn’t come as a shock to most here in this conservative Muslim country — the raid did.

The bride told police her marriage had been consensual, police officials said. Her age was listed as 18 on the marriage certificate.

Marrying off girls as young as 10 is still a widespread practice in Pakistan, Afghanistan and elsewhere in Asia and Africa, despite the prohibition of child marriage in some existing national and provincial laws. Between 2000 and 2010, about 24.4 million women between the ages of 20 and 24 were married before the age of 18, according to a report by the United Nations Population Fund.


Now some lawmakers in Pakistan are hoping to end the practice by introducing harsher punishments for clerics, guardians and spouses involved in arranging child marriages across the country. The province of Sindh, whose capital is Karachi, outlawed the practice in late April — hence the raid.

The Child Marriage Restraint Bill 2014 introduced in the National Assembly in March proposes amending a 1929 law by making involvement in a child marriage a recognizable offense and creating stricter punishments, including two-year prison sentences or fines of up to $1,000.


It’s been a long time coming, say supporters.

“It’s time that we stand up for our women,” said Marvi Memon, a lawmaker and a sponsor of the bill. “I have seen child rights violated in my constituency and around the country — in every single province.”

Still, Memon and other bill supporters are facing stiff resistance from opponents to the bill, such as the Council of Islamic Ideology, a body charged with advising the government on Islamic law.

*In March, the council ruled that laws related to the minimum age of marriage were against the teachings of the Quran and that children of any age could get married if they had reached puberty. They argue that the Prophet Muhammad took underage wives.*


----------



## Vikrant

Phoenall said:


> Vikrant said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> It is also due to very poor and corrupt leadership in those countries that wants to keep the people at each others' throats and hating the rest of the world and blaming everyone else for their problems instead of their own corrupt leaders.  This is a great way for their leaders to take attention off of the things that they are doing.  Also, I believe that this is the reason why a lot of these countries have very poor education and amenities.  This is how THEY want things.  That is why it will never change, at least probably not in our lifetimes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True look at the corruption in the Indian sub continent where senior officials line their pockets every chance they get, a good example of corruption is Arafat who creamed $billions from Palestinian aid and felted it away in a Swiss account. His wife now lives in luxury in France, not bad for a terrorist is it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was a stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WHY ? because it tells the truth. Even the UK government and media have commented on the fact the biggest majority of UK aid to Pakistan goes into the pockets of its leaders. Just as the world knew all about Arafat and his $millions stashed in a Swiss bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now you are creating a straw man.
> 
> Yes, UK's money should be used to make the lives of people in UK better. It should not go to Pakistan or any other country. Nobody is saying anything contrary - at least I am not.
> 
> ---
> 
> Birmingham's first Islamic school 'spent £1m of public money on school in Pakistan'
> 
> Birmingham s first Islamic school spent 1m of public money on school in Pakistan - Education News - Education - The Independent
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trying to deflect and failing the fact is very little if any aid makes it to the people that need it, and just recently  people in the UK are asking why Pakistan has so much poverty when it can send rockets to mars. Cut the rocket programme and bring the country out of poverty, then stamp out corruption and backhanders.
Click to expand...


Idiot, Pakistan does not have a space program.


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## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> Are you always such a putz?




A Jew hating Islamist supporter using a Yiddish word as a slur --  how quaint. .


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## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
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> Coyote said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> Coyote said:
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> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you live in the UK like I do, have you seen the Pakistani muslims grooming 11 year old girls and the police stood by while it goes on. Have you been threatened by the police and social services when you complain about the grooming and rape, then faced muslim gangs threatening you with violence. It is not done for money at all, it is done purely out of racism and hatred as a form of terrorism. It is showing the people that Pakistani muslims are superior to them and have the government in their pockets. Now the people are fighting back and are demanding the government does something to stop the abuse. All we want to see now is arrest warrants for the 250 Pakistani men that are laughing at the British justice system and bragging about getting away with murder. Yes that is what they have also done, been recorded saying so and the government released them and gave them compensation. The ones who are RACIST are those that try and defend the Pakistani muslim men and make claims that have no foundation in reality.
> 
> You want to know how many of the "customers" were not muslims, the answer is NONE. Every single one was a muslim adult male whether Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Afghani, Somali, Palestinian, Egyptian or any other muslim nationality you can think of. It is all part of the Islamic culture that see Islamic property as being muslim for ever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry Coyote, but because of Muhammad and Aisha, marrying and having sexual relationships with children is not frowned upon in many Muslim dominated countries.  Why do you continue to deny this?  Why does this offend you so much?  It is just the truth.  The reason WHY we have so many issues is because of people who don't want to face the truth head on and would rather avoid it or make excuses for it.  I suppose now we will get a barrage of reports about British natives having been convicted for pedophilia, and yes, there are pedophiles of all ethnicities, but this is a rampant problem in some Muslim countries, so much so that human rights organizations are involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It offends me because it's not the entire truth and people focus on religion and ignore the rest because it drives their own agenda which is to demonize the religion as one of pedophilia.
> 
> I don't disagree that religion *plays a part* in it but it's not the major part driving child marriages.  There are pedophiles in every culture and they are no more common in Islam than in Catholicism though Islam, does grant them more latitude.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ignoring the evidence* instead of looking at why you support and defend islam again. If a religion has it as a basic command that they should marry very young girls and take non muslim girls as sex slaves then it has a problem. The problem is expounded when the participants declare that they cant alter the word of god and will not ignore those commands because the country they live in does not like them. *Every adult male muslim is a potential child abuser because of their beliefs*, not every Catholic adult male is a child abuser because they don't have it as their religion. Even secular Turkey still practises child marriage even though it is against the law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is total bullshit.
> 
> If that were the case child-marriages (of pre-pubescent girls) would be the NORM in all Muslim majority countries and you wouldn't have Muslims themselves fighting to end child marriages in their own countries.  Look up the average ages of marriage in those countries.
> 
> Pedophiles will find a way to get children - regardless of whether they are Muslim and in a region that allows child marriages or a Catholic in an occupation that allows them close access with children.  Men who aren't pedophiles have no desire to have sex with children whether they are Muslim, Catholic or Athiest.
Click to expand...





 From the camels mouth to set the record straight

Child marriage in Islam is subject to the condition that it serve a clear and real interest - islamqa.info

 It is permissible for a man to arrange a marriage for his young son even if he has not reached puberty; it is also permissible for him to arrange a marriage for his young daughter even if she had not reached the age of puberty. It was narrated that there was consensus on this point, but that is provided that compatibility is taken into account and that a clear and real interest is served by this marriage.

Muhammad Aisha Islam and Child Brides


 I realized that the Quran, the Hadith, and Muslim scholar’s writings state that a Muslim husband can engage in sex with a child-bride before she has her first menses. Further, Muhammad actually did just this – he had intercourse with Aisha prior to her first menses!
This increases the weight and scope of my argument and places Muhammad and Islam in a far darker, more disreputable, light. Many Muslims don’t know this and by their own standards Muhammad did the wrong thing in having sex with a child. Muslims have to answer for their continued support for Muhammad because he transgresses their standards. When children are allowed to be used for sex then that is sexual exploitation; so why do they support the creator and establishment of a system that entrenches the abuse and sexual exploitation of children?
I am not trying to use cheap polemics. Surely you realize that for children there are painful ramifications behind Muhammad’s action. They need to be discussed in detail and in context. It might be offensive to some but it needs to be discussed.


 Then this that shows just how barbaric islam the world over is, raping a child to death under the pretext of marriage.

Muslim Man Rapes Child Bride Until She Dies


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## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
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> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> The way I look at it is that Coyote either is or is not Muslim.  Considering the dishonest agenda here, it is impossible to tell.
> 
> If Muslim, then all the propaganda is intentional. It is right out of the C.A.I.R.  handbook.
> 
> If not Muslim, then Coyote is, at best, a useful idiot, motivated by the need to feel good about herself (if, indeed, female)  by this constant championing of anything to do with Islam.  Some people just need a cause no matter how stupid, destructive and misguided, and her calling people racist is a projection of her own manifest hatred of anything that is not part of her Islamic cause.  Of course, she supports all manner of vile, racist behavior as long as it is a Muslim doing it, but that doesn't stop her from seeking a sense of virtuousness by calling others racist for telling the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So can you address any of the points being made in a rational manner or is that beyond your capacity?
> 
> Pedophile rings operating in the UK for years because the main violators are celebrities, politicians, doctors, policemen?  That seems a huge issue and not an Islamic issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Strange that these only came to the attention of the people after the Pakistani muslim men were being arrested and charged, and the full scale of the problem was being seen. How many girls have been raped in the UK by Pakistani muslim men 2 million, 4 million or even 10 million That is the scale of the problem and because the numbers are huge people struggle to get their heads round them. The belief in the UK is that high profile celebrities are being outed to take the muslims of the radar before civil unrest starts in the UK and the muslim get a taste of their own medicine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you  have an actual (unbiased) source showing how many girls  have been raped by Muslim men in the UK?
> 
> Are you promoting violence against British Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Non e exist's as of yet, but take the cases we know about and agree with and if you look at those and extrapolate you get figures close to the million mark or higher.   Rotherham 1400 girls take that as the benchmark and multiply it by the other 300 towns and cities in the north west and you get 420,000 and there are over 20,000 cities and towns in the UK. As the many cases have shown these are not isolated incidents but a widespread concerted effort to terrorise the young of the UK so the eventual takeover will be easier. If the young are terrorised they wont fight making the civil war so much easier. This is a common muslim method of land theft.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you have no sources to support your claims in other words.  "A common Muslim method of landtheft"  That's the biggest load of baloney I've ever heard.
> 
> Sex trafficking has been around long before Muslim immigrants in the UK and the perpetrators have represented a wide variety of ethnic groups.  Teen girls have always been vulnerable particularly those that come from rough backgrounds, broken homes, illegal immigrants or are in otherwise fragile circumstances.  Here, in the US, it goes on all the time - it's almost impossible to end it, only keep a lid on it.  If it's not the Pakistani's and Somali's doing it, it's the East Europeans - it's like the drug trade - there's a lot of money involved and well established criminal gangs.
Click to expand...




  Then do explain the former Yugoslavia  for starters when the muslims went to war to steal land. Then Somalia, Darfur, Sudan, Philippines, Pakistan, Bangldesh, Ethiopia and Kenya were muslims have started civil uprisings so they can steal the land from the legal land owners.   Every inch of land they now own outside of Saudi Arabia has been stolen by force from the people who lived there before Mohamed invented the death rape cult of islam. In every case they have raped children as part of the terrorism heaped on the heads of the population they are subjugating. 
 There is no sex trafficking involved so don't try and deflect by bringing in off topic nonsense, it is child rape as an act of terrorism and this is shown by Islamic sources

What Does Islam Say About Rape 


*Adultery or Terrorism?*
It is incorrect to say that rape is merely a subcategory of adultery or fornication. In the well-known Islamic legal book, "Fiqh-us-Sunnah," rape is included in a definition of _hiraba_ (terrorism or crimes of violence): "A single person or group of people causing public disruption, killing, forcibly taking property or money, attacking or raping women, killing cattle, or disrupting agriculture." This distinction is important when discussing the evidence required to prove the crime.


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## Phoenall

Vikrant said:


> Phoenall said:
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> Vikrant said:
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> Vikrant said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> True look at the corruption in the Indian sub continent where senior officials line their pockets every chance they get, a good example of corruption is Arafat who creamed $billions from Palestinian aid and felted it away in a Swiss account. His wife now lives in luxury in France, not bad for a terrorist is it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was a stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> 
> 
> WHY ? because it tells the truth. Even the UK government and media have commented on the fact the biggest majority of UK aid to Pakistan goes into the pockets of its leaders. Just as the world knew all about Arafat and his $millions stashed in a Swiss bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now you are creating a straw man.
> 
> Yes, UK's money should be used to make the lives of people in UK better. It should not go to Pakistan or any other country. Nobody is saying anything contrary - at least I am not.
> 
> ---
> 
> Birmingham's first Islamic school 'spent £1m of public money on school in Pakistan'
> 
> Birmingham s first Islamic school spent 1m of public money on school in Pakistan - Education News - Education - The Independent
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trying to deflect and failing the fact is very little if any aid makes it to the people that need it, and just recently  people in the UK are asking why Pakistan has so much poverty when it can send rockets to mars. Cut the rocket programme and bring the country out of poverty, then stamp out corruption and backhanders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Idiot, Pakistan does not have a space program.
Click to expand...





 Who's the idiot now then

Pakistan Space Program


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## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
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> Phoenall said:
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> Coyote said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> 
> Sorry Coyote, but because of Muhammad and Aisha, marrying and having sexual relationships with children is not frowned upon in many Muslim dominated countries.  Why do you continue to deny this?  Why does this offend you so much?  It is just the truth.  The reason WHY we have so many issues is because of people who don't want to face the truth head on and would rather avoid it or make excuses for it.  I suppose now we will get a barrage of reports about British natives having been convicted for pedophilia, and yes, there are pedophiles of all ethnicities, but this is a rampant problem in some Muslim countries, so much so that human rights organizations are involved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It offends me because it's not the entire truth and people focus on religion and ignore the rest because it drives their own agenda which is to demonize the religion as one of pedophilia.
> 
> I don't disagree that religion *plays a part* in it but it's not the major part driving child marriages.  There are pedophiles in every culture and they are no more common in Islam than in Catholicism though Islam, does grant them more latitude.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ignoring the evidence* instead of looking at why you support and defend islam again. If a religion has it as a basic command that they should marry very young girls and take non muslim girls as sex slaves then it has a problem. The problem is expounded when the participants declare that they cant alter the word of god and will not ignore those commands because the country they live in does not like them. *Every adult male muslim is a potential child abuser because of their beliefs*, not every Catholic adult male is a child abuser because they don't have it as their religion. Even secular Turkey still practises child marriage even though it is against the law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is total bullshit.
> 
> If that were the case child-marriages (of pre-pubescent girls) would be the NORM in all Muslim majority countries and you wouldn't have Muslims themselves fighting to end child marriages in their own countries.  Look up the average ages of marriage in those countries.
> 
> Pedophiles will find a way to get children - regardless of whether they are Muslim and in a region that allows child marriages or a Catholic in an occupation that allows them close access with children.  Men who aren't pedophiles have no desire to have sex with children whether they are Muslim, Catholic or Athiest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are wrong about them.  Would you trust one with your daughter?
> 
> Muslim clerics resist Pakistan s efforts to end child marriage - The Washington Post
> 
> LAHORE, Pakistan — When police raided a marriage ceremony in Karachi on Wednesday (May 14) and found a 46-year-old groom about to marry his 14-year-old bride, the wedding didn’t come as a shock to most here in this conservative Muslim country — the raid did.
> 
> The bride told police her marriage had been consensual, police officials said. Her age was listed as 18 on the marriage certificate.
> 
> Marrying off girls as young as 10 is still a widespread practice in Pakistan, Afghanistan and elsewhere in Asia and Africa, despite the prohibition of child marriage in some existing national and provincial laws. Between 2000 and 2010, about 24.4 million women between the ages of 20 and 24 were married before the age of 18, according to a report by the United Nations Population Fund.
> 
> 
> Now some lawmakers in Pakistan are hoping to end the practice by introducing harsher punishments for clerics, guardians and spouses involved in arranging child marriages across the country. The province of Sindh, whose capital is Karachi, outlawed the practice in late April — hence the raid.
> 
> The Child Marriage Restraint Bill 2014 introduced in the National Assembly in March proposes amending a 1929 law by making involvement in a child marriage a recognizable offense and creating stricter punishments, including two-year prison sentences or fines of up to $1,000.
> 
> 
> It’s been a long time coming, say supporters.
> 
> “It’s time that we stand up for our women,” said Marvi Memon, a lawmaker and a sponsor of the bill. “I have seen child rights violated in my constituency and around the country — in every single province.”
> 
> Still, Memon and other bill supporters are facing stiff resistance from opponents to the bill, such as the Council of Islamic Ideology, a body charged with advising the government on Islamic law.
> 
> *In March, the council ruled that laws related to the minimum age of marriage were against the teachings of the Quran and that children of any age could get married if they had reached puberty. They argue that the Prophet Muhammad took underage wives.*
Click to expand...


If you are asking me would I trust a Muslim man with my daughter based on no other reason than religion?  Yes.


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## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you always such a putz?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Jew hating Islamist supporter using a Yiddish word as a slur --  how quaint. .
Click to expand...


Got a link showing I'm a Jew hater, Putz?


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## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> Got a link showing I'm a Jew hater, Putz?




Got a link showing you got no Putz, Jew hater?


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## ThirdTerm

*Victim A had been in the care of a local authority outside of Bristol for most of her life and had dabbled in drugs and crime. At the start of last year, when she was 16, she and her boyfriend were arrested for an offence of dishonesty.* A court ruled that she could be released from custody as long as she immediately left her hometown, which cannot be named for legal reasons. Social workers found her a flat operated by a private provider in an area rife with drug-dealing. She was to live there alone. Her adoptive father described her as “very vulnerable and frightened inside”. She was said to be scared of the dark and craved company. *However, she was given a little supervision but left to cope alone for 22 hours a day. One of the first people she met when she ventured out alone was Said Zakaria. She asked him if he could get her “weed” and they began chatting*. Within hours, the drugs gang Zakaria was part of was setting up shop in A’s flat. Over the next months they used it as a safe house to stash and prepare heroin and cocaine before selling it. *Victim A grew fond of some of her abusers (her social worker compared it to a kidnap victim falling for her kidnappers). She thought of one of the gang leaders, Arafat Osman (Left Eye) as her boyfriend.* When his brother, Abdulhai Aden (Trigger), came out of prison, Osman asked her to have sex with him as a welcome home present. She ended up having sex with both brothers. She later said she was glad to please the men and felt “part of something”.

Bristol sex ring Girl 13 was groomed and forced into sex with series of men UK news The Guardian


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## Vikrant

Phoenall said:


> Vikrant said:
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> Vikrant said:
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> 
> That was a stupid post.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> WHY ? because it tells the truth. Even the UK government and media have commented on the fact the biggest majority of UK aid to Pakistan goes into the pockets of its leaders. Just as the world knew all about Arafat and his $millions stashed in a Swiss bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now you are creating a straw man.
> 
> Yes, UK's money should be used to make the lives of people in UK better. It should not go to Pakistan or any other country. Nobody is saying anything contrary - at least I am not.
> 
> ---
> 
> Birmingham's first Islamic school 'spent £1m of public money on school in Pakistan'
> 
> Birmingham s first Islamic school spent 1m of public money on school in Pakistan - Education News - Education - The Independent
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trying to deflect and failing the fact is very little if any aid makes it to the people that need it, and just recently  people in the UK are asking why Pakistan has so much poverty when it can send rockets to mars. Cut the rocket programme and bring the country out of poverty, then stamp out corruption and backhanders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Idiot, Pakistan does not have a space program.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Who's the idiot now then
> 
> Pakistan Space Program
Click to expand...



You are a much bigger idiot than I originally thought you were if you think that is a space program. If you call that a space program then by that standard even UK has a space program.


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## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> 
> Sorry Coyote, but because of Muhammad and Aisha, marrying and having sexual relationships with children is not frowned upon in many Muslim dominated countries.  Why do you continue to deny this?  Why does this offend you so much?  It is just the truth.  The reason WHY we have so many issues is because of people who don't want to face the truth head on and would rather avoid it or make excuses for it.  I suppose now we will get a barrage of reports about British natives having been convicted for pedophilia, and yes, there are pedophiles of all ethnicities, but this is a rampant problem in some Muslim countries, so much so that human rights organizations are involved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It offends me because it's not the entire truth and people focus on religion and ignore the rest because it drives their own agenda which is to demonize the religion as one of pedophilia.
> 
> I don't disagree that religion *plays a part* in it but it's not the major part driving child marriages.  There are pedophiles in every culture and they are no more common in Islam than in Catholicism though Islam, does grant them more latitude.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ignoring the evidence* instead of looking at why you support and defend islam again. If a religion has it as a basic command that they should marry very young girls and take non muslim girls as sex slaves then it has a problem. The problem is expounded when the participants declare that they cant alter the word of god and will not ignore those commands because the country they live in does not like them. *Every adult male muslim is a potential child abuser because of their beliefs*, not every Catholic adult male is a child abuser because they don't have it as their religion. Even secular Turkey still practises child marriage even though it is against the law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is total bullshit.
> 
> If that were the case child-marriages (of pre-pubescent girls) would be the NORM in all Muslim majority countries and you wouldn't have Muslims themselves fighting to end child marriages in their own countries.  Look up the average ages of marriage in those countries.
> 
> Pedophiles will find a way to get children - regardless of whether they are Muslim and in a region that allows child marriages or a Catholic in an occupation that allows them close access with children.  Men who aren't pedophiles have no desire to have sex with children whether they are Muslim, Catholic or Athiest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are wrong about them.  Would you trust one with your daughter?
> 
> Muslim clerics resist Pakistan s efforts to end child marriage - The Washington Post
> 
> LAHORE, Pakistan — When police raided a marriage ceremony in Karachi on Wednesday (May 14) and found a 46-year-old groom about to marry his 14-year-old bride, the wedding didn’t come as a shock to most here in this conservative Muslim country — the raid did.
> 
> The bride told police her marriage had been consensual, police officials said. Her age was listed as 18 on the marriage certificate.
> 
> Marrying off girls as young as 10 is still a widespread practice in Pakistan, Afghanistan and elsewhere in Asia and Africa, despite the prohibition of child marriage in some existing national and provincial laws. Between 2000 and 2010, about 24.4 million women between the ages of 20 and 24 were married before the age of 18, according to a report by the United Nations Population Fund.
> 
> 
> Now some lawmakers in Pakistan are hoping to end the practice by introducing harsher punishments for clerics, guardians and spouses involved in arranging child marriages across the country. The province of Sindh, whose capital is Karachi, outlawed the practice in late April — hence the raid.
> 
> The Child Marriage Restraint Bill 2014 introduced in the National Assembly in March proposes amending a 1929 law by making involvement in a child marriage a recognizable offense and creating stricter punishments, including two-year prison sentences or fines of up to $1,000.
> 
> 
> It’s been a long time coming, say supporters.
> 
> “It’s time that we stand up for our women,” said Marvi Memon, a lawmaker and a sponsor of the bill. “I have seen child rights violated in my constituency and around the country — in every single province.”
> 
> Still, Memon and other bill supporters are facing stiff resistance from opponents to the bill, such as the Council of Islamic Ideology, a body charged with advising the government on Islamic law.
> 
> *In March, the council ruled that laws related to the minimum age of marriage were against the teachings of the Quran and that children of any age could get married if they had reached puberty. They argue that the Prophet Muhammad took underage wives.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you are asking me would I trust a Muslim man with my daughter based on no other reason than religion?  Yes.
Click to expand...





 Then you are a bigger idiot than I gave you credit for


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## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Got a link showing I'm a Jew hater, Putz?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got a link showing you got no Putz, Jew hater?
Click to expand...


Like I thought.  All talk.  You've never been able to come up with a link supporting your claims.  I expect this too will quietly disappear unverified. Putz.


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## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> Like I thought.  All talk.  You've never been able to come up with a link supporting your claims.  I expect this too will quietly disappear unverified. Putz.




were you looking downward when you said Putz, Jew hater?


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## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like I thought.  All talk.  You've never been able to come up with a link supporting your claims.  I expect this too will quietly disappear unverified. Putz.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> were you looking downward when you said Putz, Jew hater?
Click to expand...


Still no link Bigot Boy?

I'm not holding my breath.


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## Vikrant

I came across this speech of Tommy Robinson on YouTube. He is no longer with English Defense League. Recently, he was invited by Oxford Union to give a speech about exploitation of young girls and its root cause. It does not matter whether you agree with him or not. However, he raises some important points. He says that a female member of his own family was groomed by Pakistani gangs which prompted him to create the English Defense League.


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## Vikrant

Theresa May: Child abuse in the UK runs far deeper than you know







Theresa May Child abuse in the UK runs far deeper than you know - Telegraph


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## Vikrant

Government statistics released in January 2013 estimated that *85,000* women are raped on average in England and Wales every year, that over *400,000* women are sexually assaulted annually, and that 1 in 5 women (aged 16 - 59) has experienced some form of sexual violence since the age of 16. The same study reported that 28% of women who are victims of the most serious sexual offences never tell anyone about it, and we know from our experience within the Rape Crisis movement that only around 15% of women and girls who experience sexual violence ever report to the police.

...

Myths facts about rape sexual violence


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## Vikrant

A young woman has been raped on a canal footpath in Manchester city centre after being separated from her friends on a night out.

The 23-year-old had been out on Canal Street with a group of pals prior to the horrific attack, police said.

After becoming separated from her friends, she started walking alone down the canal footpath between Minshull Street and Dale Street shortly after 3am on Saturday, March 7.

She was then approached by a man, who raped her.

Police said the woman had been left ‘devastated’ by the attack.

...

Woman raped on canal footpath during Manchester city centre night out - Manchester Evening News


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## Vikrant

Paedophile Grand Slam tennis champion Bob Hewitt, 75, is jailed for six years for the rape and sexual assault of young girls during private coaching sessions

Read more: Bob Hewitt jailed for six years for rape and sexual assault of young girls Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


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## Vikrant

*750,000 British men want to have sex with children, Government data reveals*

Read more: Phil Gormley s horror at discovering that 1 in 35 men is sexually attracted to children Daily Mail Online 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


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## Vikrant

A British soldier has been sentenced to nine years in prison for raping a six-year-old girl in Austria.

Craig Stormey, 30, was arrested on 29 November last year in the town of Neustift, in the Tyrol province, where he had been attending an army camp.

Stormey, from Colchester Garrison, admitted entering the girl's unlocked family home while drunk and raping her, a court spokesman in Innsbruck said.
An MoD spokesman said an application would be made to discharge the soldier.

Stormey's lawyers said he planned to appeal against the sentence.

...

UK soldier jailed for rape of six-year-old girl in Austria - BBC News


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## Indofred

Vikrant said:


> A young woman has been raped on a canal footpath in Manchester city centre after being separated from her friends on a night out.



That's the gay village.
For those who are unaware, the gay village is just by the canal, to the south of Chinatown.
Just for background information, not making a point.


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## Vikrant

Two British men have been arrested in Magaluf on suspicion of raping a teenager.

The attack on the 18-year-old woman, also from the UK, allegedly took place in a tourist apartment at the Spanish island resort at around midnight on Tuesday.

A spokesman for the Guardia Civil said it was believed that the woman had gone with the men – aged 19 and 18 – to the flat where she claims the rape took place. She was taken to hospital and gave a description of the two suspects, who were arrested soon afterwards.

It comes after two British police officers were sent to Mallorca to help police at the resort last week. West Midlands police’s Sgt Brett Williams and PC Martina Anderson have since left the island.

A Foreign Office spokesman said: “We can confirm the arrest of two British nationals in Spain on 19 August. We are providing consular assistance.”

Two British men arrested in Magaluf on suspicion of rape


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## Vikrant

*Britain’s youngest sex offender, 11, convicted of raping little sister twice*

A 12-year-old boy is believed to be Britain’s youngest ever convicted rapist after he admitted to raping his younger sister twice when he was just 11-year-old.
The small boy carried out the sex attacks on his nine-year-old sister on two separate occasions while at their home in Plymouth, a court heard.
The boy, now 12, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, admitted two counts of rape at an earlier hearing.


Read more: Britain's youngest sex offender, 11, convicted of raping little sister twice


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## Vikrant

*Girls in Britain are becoming more miserable*

Among 10 to 15-year-old girls, the charity's report says 14% are unhappy with their lives as a whole, and 34% with their appearance.

Researchers were told of girls feeling ugly or worthless.

The figures for England Wales and Scotland, for 2013-14, represent a sharp rise in unhappiness on five years before.

By contrast the study found that boys' sense of happiness remained stable.

...

UK girls becoming more miserable - study - BBC News


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## Vikrant

Police investigating the rape of a 14-year-old girl who was walking to school said they have yet to make any arrests nine days on from the attack.

The victim, who was wearing a school uniform, was snatched from a street in Oxford and forced into a car, then sexually assaulted by two men.

Thirty Thames Valley officers are working on the case, the force said.
Police said they are following a number of lines of inquiry and continuing to talk to the victim.
She was found at midday on 28 September by a member of public after knocking on doors to get help in Cavendish Drive, Marston.

...

Oxford abduction: No arrests in schoolgirl rape case - BBC News


----------



## Phoenall

Vikrant said:


> LONDON: Six men under investigation in Britain over alleged child sex exploitation were ordered Wednesday to stay away from girls, in what police hailed as a "groundbreaking" court ruling.
> 
> London's High Court issued an injunction banning the men from Birmingham, in central England, from approaching "any female under 18" with whom they are not associated.
> 
> The move was aimed at protecting a vulnerable 17-year-old girl in authority care who had been found by police in a hotel room and around cars with men, the court heard.
> 
> A judge ruled Wednesday that the men, who have not been convicted of any crime in relation to the teenager, could be named, despite objections from police concerned about their safety.
> 
> Judge Michael Keehan said there was "a high public interest in the public having the right to know what has happened in this case".
> 
> Injunctions were made against Mohammed Anjam, Omar Ahmed, Naseem Khan, Mohammed Javed, Shah Alam and Sajid Hussain -- who all come from the Birmingham area.
> 
> Most of the men denied any wrongdoing.
> 
> One told reporters as he left court Wednesday that the proceedings were "racist" and said he would appeal the decision.
> 
> Detective Chief Superintendent Danny Long, head of West Midlands Police's Public Protection Unit, defended the injunctions which he said followed months of investigations.
> 
> "Being found in a hotel room with a child isn't a crime. Being in a taxi with a child isn't a crime. Having the number of a vulnerable child in your phone or on your social media network isn't a crime. But these injunctions mean that it is now prohibited for these men," he said.
> 
> He added that the court orders were "incredibly restricting", prohibiting "any contact, in any form, with any girl under 18 years of age, who they can't prove they know".
> 
> He said anyone who breached an injunction could face prison.
> 
> Lawyers for Birmingham City Council, who launched civil court proceedings against 10 men, are due to present more evidence against several others on Thursday.
> 
> Authorities say there is currently inadequate evidence for a criminal conviction. – AFP
> 
> Men barred from approaching girls in UK anti-grooming case theSundaily









 All muslims proving yet again they they are a threat to the safety of the British people, and more so against children


----------

