# Looks like Microsoft



## Ringel05 (Nov 6, 2019)

Is really learning to play well with others.  And listening to the end users, in this instance pretty much from watching the Edge market share tumble like a boulder rolling down a mountain over the last few years.    

The new Edge Chromium to be released January 15th is a radical change for Microsoft and potentially a good thing for end users.  

The new Edge browser is faster and more reliable than ever


> Still, as it stands, this Chromium version of Edge is already a step forward. It is faster, efficient, cleaner, and comes with support for a wide variety of extensions — not just what Microsoft wants you to use. These are some of the most important things in a modern web browser, and things can only get better from here on out.


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## Old Man Grumbles (Nov 6, 2019)

After reading the article I've decided to kick the tires and run it around town to see if it lives up to the hype.


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## Ringel05 (Nov 6, 2019)

Old Man Grumbles said:


> After reading the article I've decided to kick the tires and run it around town to see if it lives up to the hype.


Remember it's still in development stage and the initial full release won't be out till mid January.


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## Old Man Grumbles (Nov 6, 2019)

Check.


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## Indeependent (Nov 6, 2019)

MS allowed non-H1-Bs to write code!?


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## Ringel05 (Nov 6, 2019)

Indeependent said:


> MS allowed non-H1-Bs to write code!?


Yup, they're doing it more and more even allowing access for Android and iOS app creators.  Cortana will now be an option and is moving in a different direction and Alexa can be installed on Win 10 now if you're into that kind of thing.  The MS old guard is gone, the "new kids" at MS are waking up to reality, that's a good thing.


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## iamwhatiseem (Nov 6, 2019)

Not a fan.
As stated, this move will likely result in Google having +95% browser share enabling them to basically completely take over how the internet is presented.
They are pretty close to that already.
  Perhaps Microsoft is hoping that enough Edge users will go with the default setting of bing doing the searches to increase their abysmal 3% marketshare...but I would say that is the next thing M$ will likely kill. And that gives Google over 99% marketshare worldwide.


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## Manonthestreet (Nov 6, 2019)

Havent had a prob with it. Maybe I'm not enough of a power user to know all the issues.


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## Likkmee (Nov 6, 2019)




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## Oddball (Nov 6, 2019)

If MS really gave a hoot in hell about what their customers wanted, they would have continued improving XP.


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## Ringel05 (Nov 6, 2019)

Likkmee said:


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You do know he's no longer there, yeah he still dabbles in the company from time to time but the new blood has taken over and they don't have the old school arrogance Gates then Ballmer imparted on Microsoft.  The new blood actively looks for and typically understands computing trends and are much more receptive to working with the competition than trying to actively destroy the competition.  
The times they are a changin'.............  Or at least let's hope so.


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## Ringel05 (Nov 6, 2019)

Oddball said:


> If MS really gave a hoot in hell about what their customers wanted, they would have continued improving XP.


Dude, really?  Why would you use a horse and buggy in this day and age........?


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## Oddball (Nov 6, 2019)

Ringel05 said:


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I don't....You know I'm  Linux guy.

Notwithstanding that, XP worked great, was totally stable, and people loved it.....Why reinvent the wheel?


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## Andylusion (Nov 6, 2019)

Oddball said:


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While true, XP was also having trouble keeping up with modern tech.  I was reading about adding more hardware and CPU support, was making the existing code bloated.

The reality is, at some point you really do have to start over from scratch.  It just is, what it is. 

If you really are a Linux guy, then I would assume you know this.  When you keep adding and adding and adding to code, with new revision after new revision, you can unfortunately end up with massive encyclopedia of code, where some of the code written by retired programmers, no one has any idea what it does anymore.

Sometimes you need to just start over.

You are right that XP was a good version.  I used it up 2013 when I started using Win 7, which I used until 2017.
That said, Windows 10 is better than I expected it to be.   So I am not entirely disappointed.


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## Ringel05 (Nov 6, 2019)

Oddball said:


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Same with Win 7 but it's now outdated due to multiple factors just like XP is, the wheel keeps reinventing itself in this instance.  Advances in technology and malicious software sees to that.  
You know how anti Win 10 I was when it first came out, I'm not so much any more.  Yeah I still have some issues with it but Microsoft has made some major changes to their approach and has rolled back much of what was hated about it besides there is 3rd party software that now allows the user much more control.  Including update control........  
Win 10 is fast and fairly secure, Defender has come a loooooong way though it still needs work.  I think Microsoft is finally waking up.


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## Andylusion (Nov 6, 2019)

Ringel05 said:


> Is really learning to play well with others.  And listening to the end users, in this instance pretty much from watching the Edge market share tumble like a boulder rolling down a mountain over the last few years.
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> The new Edge Chromium to be released January 15th is a radical change for Microsoft and potentially a good thing for end users.
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I think this is a good deal honestly.  It will force both sides to remain competitive.

Anything that operates better in Edge, will naturally be replicated in Chromium.  It's safe to assume such replications will filter through Chrome products eventually.

Equally, whatever innovations on the Chrome side, will naturally filter into Edge.

And of course, we can assume that all innovations on either side, will force the rest of the market to maintain parity.

So this can only be a good long term benefit for all customers.

At first I was completely against this, because of my unique dislike of all things Microsoft.   But the more I considered the market effects, it is nearly impossible to see how this would be bad.


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## Oddball (Nov 6, 2019)

Andylusion said:


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I'm a Linux guy because they don't keep reinventing it every time they launch a newer version...With a very few tweaks, they mostly keep the interfaces the same.

My mom has Windoze ∞ on her latest laptop, and it took me several minutes just to find the on/off function....Fuck dat!


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## Ringel05 (Nov 6, 2019)

Oddball said:


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Gnome 2 or Gnome 3?


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## Oddball (Nov 6, 2019)

The one with the launch bar that I make disappear on the left.


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## edward37 (Nov 6, 2019)

Bought MSFT about 55,60 points ago  ..Love the company  and believe their future is bright  Little contract from the gov't helps a little


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## iamwhatiseem (Nov 6, 2019)

Andylusion said:


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  No
Quite the opposite.
It literally reinforces Google's control.
It s more like "if you can't beat em' join em'. 
And that is what Microsoft is doing. Instead of employing X number of employees and resources in a losing battle against Chrome... they threw in the towel and joined up.
  In as little as 2 years one company will control 99% plus of the worlds internet experience. Including the ability to throttle/censor and direct information.
That is a terrifically bad thing.


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## Ringel05 (Nov 6, 2019)

Oddball said:


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Creating operating systems is not like motorcycle maintenance boy.  Without precise calculations you'd fly right into a piece of malware or a super nova code explosion and that would end your trip real quick......... 
(Think Han Solo........) 
Honestly this obviously is not your area of expertise, definitively commenting on it with such a complete lack of understanding the what and why doesn't necessarily make you look knowledgeable, just the opposite.  
XP had to be scrapped to keep up with changing times and technology, it couldn't adapt just as Windows 7 (my favorite) will eventually hit that wall also.  Like 99.9% of all people on the planet you don't like change, I understand but the only thing in the world that is unchangeable is change.  We roll with it or we resist it, that's fine also, whatever your choice is.


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## Ringel05 (Nov 6, 2019)

iamwhatiseem said:


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Not sure you're not over exaggerating here.  Even Google is aware that such control could bring about potential violent backlashes, with any luck they're smart enough not to go down that road.


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## Ringel05 (Nov 6, 2019)

Oddball said:


> The one with the launch bar that I make disappear on the left.


Uuummmmm, so you changed........  (Gnome 3)


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## Andylusion (Nov 6, 2019)

Ringel05 said:


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I was just thinking the same thing.  I had a large update on Mint, and they disabled my sound, disconnected my wifi drivers, and changed half the menus.

I think Linux reinvents itself almost as much as any other operating system.


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## Oddball (Nov 6, 2019)

Ringel05 said:


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Riiight....But I didn't need a separate 40-minute instruction track to tell me how to use it...And it has remained very much the same since its rollout.


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## Likkmee (Nov 6, 2019)

sudo apt-get install xfce


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## Ringel05 (Nov 6, 2019)

Oddball said:


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I don't know about that, my current version of Mint looks very little like my first version of Mint........  Dude, no one is telling you you have to use Windows, no one is telling you you have to like it just saying you're making statements that have no basis in fact, referring to "they didn't stay with the operating system I like and they should have!!!!!!!"


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## iamwhatiseem (Nov 6, 2019)

Ringel05 said:


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As of July, Google enjoyed 88.61% of the global search market share. One company. Almost 90%. Of the entire world.
Bing will end. Sooner than later. As you point out, Steve Balmer is gone, and with him also left the monumental arrogance and wasting $100's millions on projects and propping up failed ideas. Bing is one of those failures. It barely exists.
 When it dies, Google will gain another 3%, making them control just over 92%.
 Google controls what you see, most of the time, primarily by who pays them the most money to appear towards the top of what you are searching for. 
That information may even be false, or at best misleading. The internet is how people get information overwhelmingly. And having one company, which is controlled by a hand full of board members...means literally a handful of people currently controls 90% of what people see when they search on the internet.


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## Ringel05 (Nov 6, 2019)

Ringel05 said:


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The real backlash started when Ubuntu tried the first "one size fits all" approach with Unity, Microsoft didn't learn from Ubuntu's mistake and tried the same thing with Windows 8.  We know how well that went over, they somewhat changed it with Win 10 bringing back at least a version of the old Start Menu with Tiles attached because a lot of people liked that.  
You want the old Win 7 or XP style Start Menu?  Buy and download Startisback for $4 and no more Windows 10 Start Menu.  Get Win10Apps for free to uninstall all the bloatware that MS hasn't already removed and get Winaero's free Windows Tweaker to take care of just about everything else.  I've spent about the same amount of time configuring my Linux distos as I have my Windows machines and all the games I like play on Windows but not on my Linux.


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## Ringel05 (Nov 6, 2019)

iamwhatiseem said:


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Until they go too far and anti-trust laws take over, it will happen if google doesn't control itself.  It's already happened not long ago and actually it's happening again now, the Justice Department is looking intently at Google right now because Google apparently didn't go far enough to correct itself last time.


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## Andylusion (Nov 6, 2019)

iamwhatiseem said:


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I'm ok with it.

If you don't like Google, then don't use it.   Right now I use primarily duck duck go.
DuckDuckGo — Privacy, simplified.

No trackers.  No data mining.

If you don't like Google, then don't use it.   The reason that people use Google, is because it provides the best service.

Complaining that Google has the most internet searching, is basically complaining "People are using the company that provides them the best quality service!  That's terrible!  They should use more crappy services!".

And honestly, I'm not worried about it.   There's another thread that showed the differences in popular website numbers, since 1996.   The one thing you notice pretty clearly is that previous titans of the internet, that controlled 3/4ths of the entire net, in a matter of 10 years, went from leading the entire world, to virtually non-existent.

There is no such thing as "too big to fail".   Google in 10 to 15 years.... could if they do not keep their competitive edge, just like their former competitors didn't.... disappear into internet history.

So as long as Google keeps doing what they do best.... who cares if everyone uses the company that provides the best service?


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## Andylusion (Nov 6, 2019)

Ringel05 said:


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It will just cause google to dump tons of money into lobbying.  But nothing will change.

If they break google up into separate companies, it will just result in smaller companies dying off, and one company taking back over as lead search engine.    Everyone is going to focus on one search engine.  It's natural to the market.


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## iamwhatiseem (Nov 6, 2019)

Ringel05 said:


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Agreed, but at what point, if not already there, is Google the internet, and the internet is Google? It's almost there.
So today if the government said - hey you guys have to split up... who is "you guys" and what other guy is there to go to?
Bing? 
Seriously, the internet as we know it... IS Google. As in you can't go to the internet without Google. So...
But I digress... I am anti-corporate...so trying not to bring the upstairs downstairs..


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## Oddball (Nov 6, 2019)

Ringel05 said:


> The real backlash started when Ubuntu tried the first "one size fits all" approach with Unity, Microsoft didn't learn from Ubuntu's mistake and tried the same thing with Windows 8.  We know how well that went over, they somewhat changed it with Win 10 bringing back at least a version of the old Start Menu with Tiles attached because a lot of people liked that.
> You want the old Win 7 or XP style Start Menu?  Buy and download Startisback for $4 and no more Windows 10 Start Menu.  Get Win10Apps for free to uninstall all the bloatware that MS hasn't already removed and get Winaero's free Windows Tweaker to take care of just about everything else.  I've spent about the same amount of time configuring my Linux distos as I have my Windows machines *and all the games I like play on Windows but not on my Linux.*



The only reason I keep a machine with Widoze on it anymore...It's my gamer.


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## edward37 (Nov 6, 2019)

Andylusion said:


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I don't need google ,,My wife knows everything


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## Andylusion (Nov 6, 2019)

edward37 said:


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Yeah, I know that.  That's why I live alone.   I don't need a nagging person to make my life miserable.


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## Andylusion (Nov 6, 2019)

iamwhatiseem said:


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I disagree.   If the Chrome ends up being the absolute best web browser in the world.....   why are you opposed to people using the best?

And if it isn't, then someone will come up with a better solution, and start taking back market share.

I've used other web browsers.  Opera, Seamonkey, Safari, Firefox, and so on.   Only Firefox is good enough to compete with Edge and Chrome.  Even then, it's close.  Firefox isn't significantly better.


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## Ringel05 (Nov 6, 2019)

Oddball said:


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Well good for you......  
Look, everything changes we change with it or not.  I'm learning that despite some things I don't like Win 10 is a good, solid operating system but I'm also using equipment that is relatively new so I don't have the upgrade issues many have with older machines and drivers.  Besides I have Windows driver update turned off, I update my own drivers, problem solved, I also have telemetry completely disabled.  I use a Local Account to log in so I'm not signed into Microsoft unless I choose to be and Cortana doesn't run at all on my machines.


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## Oddball (Nov 6, 2019)

iamwhatiseem said:


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Bing goes away and I'll use Duck Duck Go more than I do now...Have as much google as practicable disabled on my phone...Never liked google that much from the beginning.


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## iamwhatiseem (Nov 6, 2019)

Too late...


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  Win 10 is better than when it started which was almost Nazi'sk in it's approach.
It was horrible.
Today, it is better. My main issues with it is slow boot up, comparatively, and the annoying signon page that fairly often messes up with our laptop. Not sure of it is Win 10 or the HP laptop. Fairly often you open the laptop...the sign on blur page appears...you login and then suddenly it goes to sleep again... apparently we are not alone in this.
 Other than that, using Winaero it is quite usable.


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## iamwhatiseem (Nov 6, 2019)

Oddball said:


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  Oh God, at first Google was the f*cking bomb. I hated most other browsers... never liked Yahoo! and certainly not MSN... AOL was God awful etc.
They all sucked. And then came this beautiful thing. A screen with nothing more than the search bar. LOVED it. And it's speed destroyed everyone else. It wasn't even close. But alas... then it became a public traded global company and then everything became about $$$ and the beauty gave way to a tightly controlled search result by the top bidder. 
 And BTW...just sayin... you realize duckduckgo is built on Google. If Google shut down...DDG would be out of business immediately.


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## Oddball (Nov 6, 2019)

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Well, when the day comes that I need to get an updated machine with MS on it, I'll keep this thread bookmarked so I can make most of the tweaks I want to make it as familiar as possible.

Thanks for all the info.


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## Ringel05 (Nov 6, 2019)

iamwhatiseem said:


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My bootup is fast even after taking out the apparently faulty M.2 drive and falling back on the fairly old HDD.  I have no issue with the sign-on page and that can be changed with Winaero if I wanted to.  
My primary message in the OP is that it would appear Microsoft is finally listening, pretty sure that was MS ultimately dumping all the old guard who resisted the idea that Microsoft could go the way of the dodo if they didn't change.


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## Oddball (Nov 6, 2019)

iamwhatiseem said:


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I would bounce between Yayhoo! and Google and compare the results...Even used a lot of Lycos back then.


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## iamwhatiseem (Nov 6, 2019)

Ringel05 said:


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  On the same note...truly fascinating to me, is what possible reason did M$ keep Balmer for so long? I mean just how many abysmal failures was he allowed to make?
I remember a video some years back when they started Zune, and he so confidently scoffed at a comment made about how was Zune going to compete... he honestly believed it would take over because it was Microsoft. It didn't occur to him it wouldn't.
  Certainly one of the worst CEO's of all time.


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## iamwhatiseem (Nov 6, 2019)

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  ugh... hated Yahoo!
I distinctly remember being so pissed off during the days of dialup waiting on yahoo to load the 100 photos on it's homepage when all I wanted was to look something up.
Google was a Godsend. It truly was. You could literally do 2-3 searches and be done by the time it took yahoo load the front page. .


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## Oddball (Nov 6, 2019)

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Yeah, I remember that was when I steered to Firefox with Adblocker....Cleaned that shit up on Yayhoo! pronto.

Lycos was clean like Google too....Holy Shit, I just looked...They're still around! Lycos.com


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## Ringel05 (Nov 6, 2019)

iamwhatiseem said:


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The Microsoft culture at the time was still a culture of arrogance just like our auto manufacturers in the 70s and early 80s, they thought they ruled the markets and were untouchable.


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## Oddball (Nov 6, 2019)

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To be fair to the auto manufacturers, that was the point where the feds started heaping CAFE standards on them.....It was also the point in time where the products of foreign auto manufacturers, rebuilt largely from the Marshall Plan, could be supplied in large enough numbers to the US market to compete...The day of the world being forced to rely on the US for industrial goods was dying.

MS only had to deal with their own hubris.


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## Ringel05 (Nov 6, 2019)

Oddball said:


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There was still an arrogance with the auto manufacturing in this country.  They were approached by a few individuals who saw the writing on the wall and recommended necessary changes, primarily management changes, changes that would have mitigated the market blows.  Those individuals were literally scoffed at, laughed at and sent packing.


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## Likkmee (Nov 6, 2019)

Oddball said:


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Dogpile.com


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## Indeependent (Nov 7, 2019)

Andylusion said:


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It’s called spaghetti code; MS was famous for it.


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## Andylusion (Nov 7, 2019)

Indeependent said:


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Yes.  I suspect this is because they had so many different programmers working on different aspects of the operating system, that it was easier to simply link to other portions of code, rather than having a unified structure to the code.


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## Indeependent (Nov 7, 2019)

Andylusion said:


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The poisonous touch of the MBA...
9 women can give birth in 1 month.


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## CWayne (Nov 21, 2019)

I've had Edge Beta installed a few months now, the new Chrome engine Edge, and I've not had a problem with it so far.  Runs fast and installs the addons I run and use well.

Of course, their entire layout still sucks, but that is likely because I haven't used MSIE since the late '90s, so I may just need to get used to it again.


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