# Biden to allow higher-ethanol fuel sales in summer to check gas prices



## 1srelluc

WASHINGTON, April 12 (Reuters) - U.S. President Joe Biden will unveil plans on Tuesday to extend the availability of higher biofuels-blended gasoline during summer to curb soaring fuel costs and to cut reliance on foreign energy sources, senior administration officials said.

The move will allow Americans to keep buying E15, a gasoline that uses a 15% ethanol blend, from June 1 to Sept. 15. While E15 is only 10 cents cheaper on average and is less "energy dense," *meaning drivers would need to buy more fuel,* it should still help lower fuel expenses, they told reporters on a call previewing the announcement.

Biden to allow higher-ethanol fuel sales in summer to check gas prices

Drivers get less mileage out of E-15 but it's 10 cent less.....Only slag dems would think that that's a "savings".

To add insult to injury the world is facing a food shortage and we are going to burn yet more corn in our tanks?

Ya, that is the Tater admin for ya.


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## basquebromance

Biden will announce an emergency waiver on summer ethanol ban to combat rising gas prices across the country









						Biden to OK Year-Round E15 Gasoline to Combat Monster Inflation
					

Cheaper ethanol blend to be permitted for sale, in move mirroring Trump-era policy.



					www.thedailybeast.com


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## Dekster

Well I am not sure E15 is suitable for all vehicles, so having your ride at the garage will certainly reduce its demand for dinosaur stew.


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## basquebromance




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## Oddball

ETOH is shit for engines, difficult to transport, and wastes farmland space better suited for food production.


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## Vrenn

1srelluc said:


> WASHINGTON, April 12 (Reuters) - U.S. President Joe Biden will unveil plans on Tuesday to extend the availability of higher biofuels-blended gasoline during summer to curb soaring fuel costs and to cut reliance on foreign energy sources, senior administration officials said.
> 
> The move will allow Americans to keep buying E15, a gasoline that uses a 15% ethanol blend, from June 1 to Sept. 15. While E15 is only 10 cents cheaper on average and is less "energy dense," *meaning drivers would need to buy more fuel,* it should still help lower fuel expenses, they told reporters on a call previewing the announcement.
> 
> Biden to allow higher-ethanol fuel sales in summer to check gas prices
> 
> Drivers get less mileage out of E-15 but it's 10 cent less.....Only slag dems would think that that's a "savings".
> 
> To add insult to injury the world is facing a food shortage and we are going to burn yet more corn in our tanks?
> 
> Ya, that is the Tater admin for ya.



Wah, Wah, Wah.

The only thing you need to do to run E15 is to retune.  My Hemi likes it and gets quite a power boost from it over 93 octane.  Not as good as 100 octane but try and find that and be able to afford it.  

You are playing Politics when there is nothing there.  I bet that your head is exploding knowing the sales of EVs are on the rise.  So keep crying like the little baby you are.  Wah, Wah, Wah.


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## 1srelluc

Vrenn said:


> Wah, Wah, Wah.
> 
> The only thing you need to do to run E15 is to retune.  My Hemi likes it and gets quite a power boost from it over 93 octane.  Not as good as 100 octane but try and find that and be able to afford it.
> 
> You are playing Politics when there is nothing there.  I bet that your head is exploding knowing the sales of EVs are on the rise.  So keep crying like the little baby you are.  Wah, Wah, Wah.


Meh, Tater is just trying to scratch dirt over that 8.5% inflation number that came out this morning.

But.....If you are that big of a rube then enjoy your corn gas.


----------



## TNHarley

Vrenn said:


> Wah, Wah, Wah.
> 
> The only thing you need to do to run E15 is to retune.  My Hemi likes it and gets quite a power boost from it over 93 octane.  Not as good as 100 octane but try and find that and be able to afford it.
> 
> You are playing Politics when there is nothing there.  I bet that your head is exploding knowing the sales of EVs are on the rise.  So keep crying like the little baby you are.  Wah, Wah, Wah.


Its the point, you dumb ass hack.
Allowing shittier gas that you burn more of, to cover a TEN CENT cost difference.
Not to mention, E15 isnt even approved for all vehicles.
But hack away, dumbfuck


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## bugs

The ONLY Reason Fuel is Basically Frozen at Around $3.90 a Gallon is that they opened
up the Emergency Use ONLY Strategic Reserve.. it was Basically a Panic move.


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## Golfing Gator

1srelluc said:


> To add insult to injury the world is facing a food shortage and we are going to burn yet more corn in our tanks?



You know that the corn going into the ethanol is not the same corn you eat at your Sunday BBQ, right?


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## 1srelluc

Golfing Gator said:


> You know that the corn going into the ethanol is not the same corn you eat at your Sunday BBQ, right?


Of course, but it's the same corn (or close) used to feed livestock.

_Only about 10% of US corn is used for human consumption; the bulk of it is generally used for* animal feed*. So ethanol production has led to less corn for animal feed, which means that farmers have to pay more to feed their animals, a cost that gets passed on to consumers._


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## Oddball

Golfing Gator said:


> You know that the corn going into the ethanol is not the same corn you eat at your Sunday BBQ, right?


You know that the corn you could eat at the Sunday BBQ -along with a lot of other food crops- could be grown on the farmland wasted on ETOH, right?


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## Ralph Norton

Don't know too much about cars - is 15% ethanol bad for engines?


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## BackAgain

Moar Korn!


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## 1srelluc

Thread #3 on this morning.....and counting.


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## Rambunctious

This will exasperate the global food shortage and add to the rising cost of food....corn syrup is in everything.....Joe is either trying to bring America down or he is one stupid asshole.....


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## JGalt

BackAgain said:


> Moar Korn!



With the price of fertilizer and ammonia going sky-high, there won't be quite as much corn this year.

It just seems like every fucking thing those Democrats do, is wrong.


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## BackAgain

JGalt said:


> With the price of fertilizer and ammonia going sky-high, there won't be quite as much corn this year.
> 
> It just seems like every fucking thing those Democrats do, is wrong.


Or — there will be, but the price is going up up up.


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## postman

Ralph Norton said:


> Don't know too much about cars - is 15% ethanol bad for engines?


Ask the drivers at the Indianapolis 500.


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## CrusaderFrank

25th Amendment!

For the love of Everything!


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## Moonglow

No matter what Biden does yous guys will whine and cry like a little girl already.


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## TNHarley

Moonglow said:


> No matter what Biden does yous guys will whine and cry like a little girl already.


Hey you retarded fucking hack : This E15 burns quicker. Which will cause gas mileage to go down. It also isnt even approved for all vehicles.
This stupid shit to save around 10 cents a gallon. LOLZ
Take bidens dick out of your mouth for a minute, FFS. FOR JUST A FUCKING MINUTE


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## Rambunctious

Sometimes I think that there are people in Biden's administration that are in favor of reducing the global population...we know some of the Obama holdovers openly expressed their desire for fewer people in order to save the planet...this would explain a hell of a lot or their actions.....


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## iceberg

Moonglow said:


> No matter what Biden does yous guys will whine and cry like a little girl already.


and no matter what anyone chooses to talk about, you will reply like a doosh who has to lob his snark on everything and offer nothing. 

it's just what this place is.


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## there4eyeM

The world is starving, corn prices are rising, pollution is increasing. Did they study this idea to see what would be the most wrong they could do?


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## lennypartiv

postman said:


> Ask the drivers at the Indianapolis 500.


How the hell is the Indy 500 relevant to this conversation?


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## postman

TNHarley said:


> Hey you retarded fucking hack : This E15 burns quicker. Which will cause gas mileage to go down. It also isnt even approved for all vehicles.
> This stupid shit to save around 10 cents a gallon. LOLZ
> Take bidens dick out of your mouth for a minute, FFS. FOR JUST A FUCKING MINUTE



First E15 doesn't burn quicker.   You're confused.  Ethanol has a lower specific gravity, and lower energy per unit volume than gasoline, so your mileage will be a little less with E15.

FYI

_E15, which is gasoline with 15% ethanol is growing in popularity, especially in the Midwest. The fuel is approved for all cars 2001 and newer. What drivers may not realize is the gasoline they currently use has 10% ethanol in it. _


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## Moonglow

iceberg said:


> and no matter what anyone chooses to talk about, you will reply like a doosh who has to lob his snark on everything and offer nothing.
> 
> it's just what this place is.


There is nothing to offer you sobbing girls because it is part of yer psyche to be whiners because Trump lost....If you don't like the blend drive an EV or buy premium, there are choices...


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## there4eyeM

Moonglow said:


> No matter what Biden does yous guys will whine and cry like a little girl already.


Really, this time he's made a very bad choice.


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## postman

lennypartiv said:


> How the hell is the Indy 500 relevant to this conversation?


They run on 100% ethanol, (not just 15%) and they wouldn't want to run on gasoline.


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## lennypartiv

postman said:


> They run on 100% ethanol, (not just 15%) and they wouldn't want to run on gasoline.


I guess I'll have to watch NASCAR instead.


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## postman

there4eyeM said:


> Really, this time he's made a very bad choice.


You say that about any choice that Biden makes.
I remember republicans saying that Katanji Brown Jackson was a bad choice, and she has a stellar record and got bi-partisan support.


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## Moonglow

there4eyeM said:


> Really, this time he's made a very bad choice.


I hate the whole biofuel mandates from the 2005 Energy Policy Act yet that is what our fearless leaders did and I can't change it, so I use alternatives.


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## postman

lennypartiv said:


> I guess I'll have to watch NASCAR instead.


You know NASCAR drivers are forced to run 1960's technology.


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## lennypartiv

postman said:


> You know NASCAR drivers are forced to run 1960's technology.


That's what makes NASCAR great.


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## Golfing Gator

JGalt said:


> With the price of fertilizer and ammonia going sky-high, there won't be quite as much corn this year.



Too early to determine that.  Some will plan more to try and take advantage of the drop from Russia/Ukraine.    Others will do more soy so they can follow it up with wheat.   In the Midwest here where most of the corn/soy is grown very little has been planted as most will not before Easter due to fear of a late freeze. 

In a couple months we will have a better idea how much of each will be planted.


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## postman

lennypartiv said:


> That's what makes NASCAR great.


Race on sunday, sell on Monday.


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## TNHarley

postman said:


> First E15 doesn't burn quicker.   You're confused.  Ethanol has a lower specific gravity, and lower energy per unit volume than gasoline, so your mileage will be a little less with E15.
> 
> FYI
> 
> _E15, which is gasoline with 15% ethanol is growing in popularity, especially in the Midwest. The fuel is approved for all cars 2001 and newer. What drivers may not realize is the gasoline they currently use has 10% ethanol in it. _


Ok, thanks. I knew it was something that brought mileage down.


----------



## JGalt

Golfing Gator said:


> Too early to determine that.  Some will plan more to try and take advantage of the drop from Russia/Ukraine.    Others will do more soy so they can follow it up with wheat.   In the Midwest here where most of the corn/soy is grown very little has been planted as most will not before Easter due to fear of a late freeze.
> 
> In a couple months we will have a better idea how much of each will be planted.



Even soybeans produce a lower crop yield without the proper application of fertilizer. Most livestock as well as chicken rely on corn and soybeans for feed, which means even higher meat prices next year.


----------



## iceberg

Moonglow said:


> There is nothing to offer you sobbing girls because it is part of yer psyche to be whiners because Trump lost....If you don't like the blend drive an EV or buy premium, there are choices...


Except I say  I thing about Trump, you insert him and pretend I am who you want me to be. 

it's what trolling snark dooshes do.


----------



## Golfing Gator

JGalt said:


> Even soybeans produce a lower crop yield without the proper application of fertilizer. Most livestock as well as chicken rely on corn and soybeans for feed, which means even higher meat prices next year.



Soybeans need almost no fertilizer and basically no nitrogen.  Soybeans actually add nitrogen in the soil.  This is why most people here in the midwest rotate corn/soy each year in their fields.









						Nitrogen in the Environment: Nitrogen Replacement Value of Legumes
					

Nitrogen is essential for all plant life. Regarding agricultural crops, a sound nitrogen management program is important in achieving high yields. For many crops, application of commercial nitrogen fertilizer is both a practical and sound method to produce top yields. The use of legumes, such as...




					extension.missouri.edu
				





I think we will have much higher soy bean acres this year so they can follow them up with wheat to harvest next spring. 

Also, I have not yet seen if the USDA will allow farmers to plant on CRP land this year without a consequence for doing so.   From what I have read I think they will, but have not seen it in writing yet.  If this happens we could see record acres in both corn and soy.


----------



## there4eyeM

postman said:


> You say that about any choice that Biden makes.
> I remember republicans saying that Katanji Brown Jackson was a bad choice, and she has a stellar record and got bi-partisan support.


This is highly incorrect. Most of Biden's decisions (or at least those ascribed to him) go totally without remark on my part. The choice of Biden has been often criticized, as has that of Trump and a number of other candidates.


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## there4eyeM

lennypartiv said:


> That's what makes NASCAR great.


Irrelevant was misspelled.


----------



## Moonglow

iceberg said:


> Except I say  I thing about Trump, you insert him and pretend I am who you want me to be.
> 
> it's what trolling snark dooshes do.


----------



## Moonglow

JGalt said:


> Even soybeans produce a lower crop yield without the proper application of fertilizer. Most livestock as well as chicken rely on corn and soybeans for feed, which means even higher meat prices next year.


Raise your own food then..


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## skews13

1srelluc said:


> Meh, Tater is just trying to scratch dirt over that 8.5% inflation number that came out this morning.
> 
> But.....If you are that big of a rube then enjoy your corn gas.



Scratch dirt over it? He’s pointing out that 8.5% number is because the monopolies that sell you everything, are blatantly raping you for it.

I guess some people are just laying back enjoying the raping. So much for the socialism argument.


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## 1srelluc

skews13 said:


> Scratch dirt over it? He’s pointing out that 8.5% number is because the monopolies that sell you everything, are blatantly raping you for it.
> 
> I guess some people are just laying back enjoying the raping. So much for the socialism argument.


Are you naturally obtuse or do you work at it?

The world wonders.....


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## JGalt

skews13 said:


> Scratch dirt over it? He’s pointing out that 8.5% number is because the monopolies that sell you everything, are blatantly raping you for it.
> 
> I guess some people are just laying back enjoying the raping. So much for the socialism argument.



Economics 101. Did you fail that or something?


----------



## yidnar

1srelluc said:


> WASHINGTON, April 12 (Reuters) - U.S. President Joe Biden will unveil plans on Tuesday to extend the availability of higher biofuels-blended gasoline during summer to curb soaring fuel costs and to cut reliance on foreign energy sources, senior administration officials said.
> 
> The move will allow Americans to keep buying E15, a gasoline that uses a 15% ethanol blend, from June 1 to Sept. 15. While E15 is only 10 cents cheaper on average and is less "energy dense," *meaning drivers would need to buy more fuel,* it should still help lower fuel expenses, they told reporters on a call previewing the announcement.
> 
> Biden to allow higher-ethanol fuel sales in summer to check gas prices
> 
> Drivers get less mileage out of E-15 but it's 10 cent less.....Only slag dems would think that that's a "savings".
> 
> To add insult to injury the world is facing a food shortage and we are going to burn yet more corn in our tanks?
> 
> Ya, that is the Tater admin for ya.


the price of corn is going to rise .


----------



## Couchpotato

Golfing Gator said:


> You know that the corn going into the ethanol is not the same corn you eat at your Sunday BBQ, right?


You know that you can grow things to eat instead of corn to turn into inefficient gas in the same dirt right?


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## Golfing Gator

Couchpotato said:


> You know that you can grow things to eat instead of corn to turn into inefficient gas in the same dirt right?



Sure, the same dirt. But not always the same equipment or the same amount off labor. 

The draw of field corn/soy/wheat is that it huge amounts of it can be grown and harvested with minimal manpower.

Small farmers can do a few hundred acres of corn/soy/wheat all by themselves.  

Operations up to a few thousand acres can be handled just family members with the right equipment


----------



## Couchpotato

Golfing Gator said:


> Sure, the same dirt. But not always the same equipment or the same amount off labor.
> 
> The draw of field corn/soy/wheat is that it huge amounts of it can be grown and harvested with minimal manpower.
> 
> Small farmers can do a few hundred acres of corn/soy/wheat all by themselves.
> 
> Operations up to a few thousand acres can be handled just family members with the right equipment


Sure,  it's more labor intensive to plant and deal with 100 acres of tomatoes than it is fuel corn.   That said if we are indeed looking at food shortages Im not sure it's a great idea to incentivize farmers to plant fuel corn over corn/insert food crop here.    Once it's in the ground it will be too late to change our minds though.


----------



## Golfing Gator

Couchpotato said:


> Sure,  it's more labor intensive to plant and deal with 100 acres of tomatoes than it is fuel corn.   That said if we are indeed looking at food shortages Im not sure it's a great idea to incentivize farmers to plant fuel corn over corn/insert food crop here.    Once it's in the ground it will be too late to change our minds though.



I am with you on the incentivizing of farmers to grow more by the Govt.  

But it is not as easy to change what you have been growing for generations on your land as you make it out to be.  

A farmer paying off a million dollar combine is not going to suddenly start growing vegis instead of corn/soy beans


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## TheGreatSatan

Biden wants to make food shortages real.


----------



## Couchpotato

Golfing Gator said:


> I am with you on the incentivizing of farmers to grow more by the Govt.
> 
> But it is not as easy to change what you have been growing for generations on your land as you make it out to be.
> 
> A farmer paying off a million dollar combine is not going to suddenly start growing vegis instead of corn/soy beans


True, but he might grow more corn/soybeans vs food crops if there is a larger market for them.   I dont know what the profit margin on fuel corn vs tomatoes is for a farmer so I cant speak to whether this influences them or not.     We are going have to grow more fuel corn if we are using more ethanol, of that I am certain.  Whether that mean less potatoes or eating corn I do not know for sure.    I kind of doubt the admin really knows either frankly.


----------



## Foolardi

1srelluc said:


> WASHINGTON, April 12 (Reuters) - U.S. President Joe Biden will unveil plans on Tuesday to extend the availability of higher biofuels-blended gasoline during summer to curb soaring fuel costs and to cut reliance on foreign energy sources, senior administration officials said.
> 
> The move will allow Americans to keep buying E15, a gasoline that uses a 15% ethanol blend, from June 1 to Sept. 15. While E15 is only 10 cents cheaper on average and is less "energy dense," *meaning drivers would need to buy more fuel,* it should still help lower fuel expenses, they told reporters on a call previewing the announcement.
> 
> Biden to allow higher-ethanol fuel sales in summer to check gas prices
> 
> Drivers get less mileage out of E-15 but it's 10 cent less.....Only slag dems would think that that's a "savings".
> 
> To add insult to injury the world is facing a food shortage and we are going to burn yet more corn in our tanks?
> 
> Ya, that is the Tater admin for ya.


Ethanol is destructive to the 4 stroke internal combustion engine.
   That is why Pops Biden is doing it.Someone like a Buttigieg informed the WH
   a good way of lessen the popularity of Gas engines.By internally making an
  engine finicky.


----------



## Hang on Sloopy

1srelluc said:


> WASHINGTON, April 12 (Reuters) - U.S. President Joe Biden will unveil plans on Tuesday to extend the availability of higher biofuels-blended gasoline during summer to curb soaring fuel costs and to cut reliance on foreign energy sources, senior administration officials said.
> 
> The move will allow Americans to keep buying E15, a gasoline that uses a 15% ethanol blend, from June 1 to Sept. 15. While E15 is only 10 cents cheaper on average and is less "energy dense," *meaning drivers would need to buy more fuel,* it should still help lower fuel expenses, they told reporters on a call previewing the announcement.
> 
> Biden to allow higher-ethanol fuel sales in summer to check gas prices
> 
> Drivers get less mileage out of E-15 but it's 10 cent less.....Only slag dems would think that that's a "savings".
> 
> To add insult to injury the world is facing a food shortage and we are going to burn yet more corn in our tanks?
> 
> Ya, that is the Tater admin for ya.


Well since ethanol is made of corn, corn prices will soar just like when this shit gas was introduced

Wonder what Corn Pop the bad dude would say?


----------



## Vrenn

Ralph Norton said:


> Don't know too much about cars - is 15% ethanol bad for engines?



Not really.  But it lights better in a mix with Gasoline.  Petroleum Fuels have a very high energy level while ethanol doesn't have as much.  But under high power outputs, the Ethanol does increase the octane level so in a high-performance engine (high compression) it will increase the power.

But you can tune an engine to run strictly on Ethanol as long as you have a higher compression ratio.


----------



## Sunsettommy

Ralph Norton said:


> Don't know too much about cars - is 15% ethanol bad for engines?



Yes, because it INCREASES city Ozone pollution emissions a health hazard, reduce mileage per gallon because of its much lower octane rating and reduces food supply generating higher food prices.


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## petro

Biden about to speak in front of a couple tractors with piles of corn...
Christ, could the propaganda imagery get any more obvious and pathetic?
The podium is on bales of hay...
You know, cause he is just like the common man...

Hope he comes out in a flannel shirt and a John Deere hat to top off the shitshow.


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## Leo123

postman said:


> First E15 doesn't burn quicker.   You're confused.  Ethanol has a lower specific gravity, and lower energy per unit volume than gasoline, so your mileage will be a little less with E15.
> 
> FYI
> 
> _E15, which is gasoline with 15% ethanol is growing in popularity, especially in the Midwest. The fuel is approved for all cars 2001 and newer. What drivers may not realize is the gasoline they currently use has 10% ethanol in it. _


I'm in CA, when I pump gas all I smell is alcohol.


----------



## Oddball

Ralph Norton said:


> Don't know too much about cars - is 15% ethanol bad for engines?


Horrible....Lower flashpoint, fewer BTUs per unit, extremely difficult to transport, attracts water, and more.


----------



## Oddball

petro said:


> Biden about to speak in front of a couple tractors with piles of corn...
> Christ, could the propaganda imagery get any more obvious and pathetic?
> The podium is on bales of hay...
> You know, cause he is just like the common man...
> 
> Hope he comes out in a flannel shirt and a John Deere hat to top off the shitshow.


Maybe he'll do some pickin' and grinnin' next!


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## Oddball

postman said:


> Ask the drivers at the Indianapolis 500.


Apples and submarines.


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## petro

Oddball said:


> Maybe he'll do some pickin' and grinnin' next!


Dammit,  he wore a suit.
But he didn't fail to bring up Putin's Price HikeTM.


----------



## Mac-7

1srelluc said:


> WASHINGTON, April 12 (Reuters) - U.S. President Joe Biden will unveil plans on Tuesday to extend the availability of higher biofuels-blended gasoline during summer to curb soaring fuel costs and to cut reliance on foreign energy sources, senior administration officials said.
> 
> The move will allow Americans to keep buying E15, a gasoline that uses a 15% ethanol blend, from June 1 to Sept. 15. While E15 is only 10 cents cheaper on average and is less "energy dense," *meaning drivers would need to buy more fuel,* it should still help lower fuel expenses, they told reporters on a call previewing the announcement.
> 
> Biden to allow higher-ethanol fuel sales in summer to check gas prices
> 
> Drivers get less mileage out of E-15 but it's 10 cent less.....Only slag dems would think that that's a "savings".
> 
> To add insult to injury the world is facing a food shortage and we are going to burn yet more corn in our tanks?
> 
> Ya, that is the Tater admin for ya.


Older cars are not designed to handle higher ethanol fuel

this will cost American drivers billions in car repairs


----------



## Vrenn

petro said:


> Biden about to speak in front of a couple tractors with piles of corn...
> Christ, could the propaganda imagery get any more obvious and pathetic?
> The podium is on bales of hay...
> You know, cause he is just like the common man...
> 
> Hope he comes out in a flannel shirt and a John Deere hat to top off the shitshow.



I hope he does too since it will make your head explode clean off your extremely red neck.


----------



## Ame®icano




----------



## petro

Say it with the brainwashed masses...
"Putin's Price Hike!!!"


----------



## Mac-7

petro said:


> Say it with the brainwashed masses...
> "Putin's Price Hike!!!"


----------



## petro

Mac-7 said:


>


Lol...
I used to see that shit working at the nursing home...


----------



## Mac-7

Mac-7 said:


>


Obama makes my skin crawl


----------



## Golfing Gator

Hang on Sloopy said:


> Well since ethanol is made of corn, corn prices will soar just like when this shit gas was introduced
> 
> Wonder what Corn Pop the bad dude would say?



Should not do a thing to corn prices.  

Just about all the corn from last year is already contracted if not delivered.  Just about none has been planted yet.   The ethanol plants have what they have and might be able to find a bit more but the feed lots and the rest of the people using field corn have already set their price.


----------



## Mac-7

Golfing Gator said:


> Should not do a thing to corn prices.
> 
> Just about all the corn from last year is already contracted if not delivered.  Just about none has been planted yet.   The ethanol plants have what they have and might be able to find a bit more but the feed lots and the rest of the people using field corn have already set their price.


auto parts stores and repair garages will make a lot of money

but you might not see that from your bubble that protects you from every stupid thing biden does


----------



## Golfing Gator

Mac-7 said:


> auto parts stores and repair garages will make a lot of money
> 
> but you might not see that from your bubble that protects you from every stupid thing biden does



I agree this is stupid, I have said so on a couple of these threads since there are like 5 on this topic.

I would not put that stuff in my car.  

But knowing it is a stupid idea does not mean I have to go along with a the stupid shit people say about it 

One of the joys of not being a tribe member I can disagree with anyone I like and now worry about being kicked out of the club. 

Sucks to be you


----------



## task0778

Golfing Gator said:


> Should not do a thing to corn prices.


That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  Biden is going to extend the availability of higher biofuels-blended gasoline during the summer months, which means the production of ethanol will be more than was expected.  Since corn is the basic ingredient for ethanol there will be a greater demand for corn than there otherwise would be, hence a rise in corn prices.  So, at some point there will be less corn available for other uses, like food for instance.  Anybody want to point out the flaw in my thinking?


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## Mac-7

Golfing Gator said:


> I agree this is stupid, I have said so on a couple of these threads since there are like 5 on this topic


Ok


----------



## Jarlaxle

1srelluc said:


> Of course, but it's the same corn (or close) used to feed livestock.
> 
> _Only about 10% of US corn is used for human consumption; the bulk of it is generally used for* animal feed*. So ethanol production has led to less corn for animal feed, which means that farmers have to pay more to feed their animals, a cost that gets passed on to consumers._


And after the ethanol is extracted, it's used for...animal feed.


----------



## Golfing Gator

task0778 said:


> That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  Biden is going to extend the availability of higher biofuels-blended gasoline during the summer months, which means the production of ethanol will be more than was expected.  Since corn is the basic ingredient for ethanol there will be a greater demand for corn than there otherwise would be, hence a rise in corn prices.  So, at some point there will be less corn available for other uses, like food for instance.  Anybody want to point out the flaw in my thinking?



Most of the corn produced last year has been contracted for and the price is set, this includes the ethanol plants.  

Any price increase from little bit of extra ethanol produced will just be background noise to what the loss of corn from the Ukraine and Russia will cause.

Also, most planting has not yet started, we do not know what the mix will be between corn and soy beans.  And if the USDA opens up CRP land to planting this year that would cover any thing that the ethanol plants might use extra


----------



## 1srelluc

Jarlaxle said:


> And after the ethanol is extracted, it's used for...animal feed.


Much lower grade.


----------



## Jarlaxle

Foolardi said:


> Ethanol is destructive to the 4 stroke internal combustion engine.
> That is why Pops Biden is doing it.Someone like a Buttigieg informed the WH
> a good way of lessen the popularity of Gas engines.By internally making an
> engine finicky.


How do you post this with a straight face?


----------



## task0778

Golfing Gator said:


> Most of the corn produced last year has been contracted for and the price is set, this includes the ethanol plants.
> 
> Any price increase from little bit of extra ethanol produced will just be background noise to what the loss of corn from the Ukraine and Russia will cause.
> 
> Also, most planting has not yet started, we do not know what the mix will be between corn and soy beans.  And if the USDA opens up CRP land to planting this year that would cover any thing that the ethanol plants might use extra



Wasn't convinced.  The corn needed to produce the extra ethanol right now has to come from somewhere.  At some point, more corn than anticipated is going to go to ethanol production, right?  So, at the point in time the price of corn is going to go up due to an increase in demand.  

What about the corn produced this year?  

LOL, a little bit of extra ethanol?


----------



## Jarlaxle

Mac-7 said:


> auto parts stores and repair garages will make a lot of money
> 
> but you might not see that from your bubble that protects you from every stupid thing biden does


Millions of cars will happily burn E15 with no issues.


----------



## Golfing Gator

task0778 said:


> Wasn't convinced. The corn needed to produce the extra ethanol right now has to come from somewhere. At some point, more corn than anticipated is going to go to ethanol production, right? So, at the point in time the price of corn is going to go up due to an increase in demand.



Most of the corn produced last year is already under contract.   Half has already been disposed of and the rest is not just sitting there hoping someone buys it.



task0778 said:


> What about the corn produced this year?



We do not know how much will be produced this year. Farmers might choose to plant more acres of it due to this rule from Biden.   If they know they can sell it to the ethanol plants they are likely to plant more.  

They will have to weigh the benefit of selling more to the ethanol plants or going with soy so they can follow it with wheat to fill in the market for what we are losing from the Russian invasion of Ukraine.



task0778 said:


> LOL, a little bit of extra ethanol?



Yes.  all that change is there is 3 extra months of the 15%. They were already allowed to sell the 10% year round as it was.


----------



## Mac-7

Jarlaxle said:


> Millions of cars will happily burn E15 with no issues.


And just as many if not more, not to mention lawn mowers and small engines will not

ethanol eats seals and causes gas leaking out and air sucking in

not good

for wealthy people driving newer cars, who work behind a desk instead of depending on small engines for their livelihood all is well

but it wont be smooth sailing for millions of other Americans


----------



## beagle9

Corn for making gas.... Biggest mistake. It is the worst bull crap this nation has ever allowed to be played on the American consumer. It has enriched certain player's in the industries, but has screwed the American consumers over big time... This ethanol crap is detrimental to fuel systems, especially small engine systems. It draws moisture like no one can imagine, and therefore destroys fuel systems over time. It is precarious to deal with. I can't stand the crap, so I run ethono free gas in almost everything I own.


----------



## beagle9

Mac-7 said:


> And just as many if not more, not to mention lawn mowers and small engines will not
> 
> ethanol eats seals and causes gas leaking out and air sucking in
> 
> not good
> 
> for wealthy people driving newer cars, who work behind a desk instead of depending on small engines for their livelihood all is well
> 
> but it wont be smooth sailing for millions of other Americans


Exactly..... Go Brandon !!


----------



## Jarlaxle

Mac-7 said:


> And just as many if not more, not to mention lawn mowers and small engines will not
> 
> ethanol eats seals and causes gas leaking out and air sucking in
> 
> not good
> 
> for wealthy people driving newer cars, who work behind a desk instead of depending on small engines for their livelihood all is well
> 
> but it wont be smooth sailing for millions of other Americans


Yeah,it was so hard to afford my retired police cruiser. Caravans cost a fortune.  Ford pickups priced like a Rolls-Royce!

All happily burn E15.


----------



## LAUGHatLEFTISTS

Moonglow said:


> There is nothing to offer you sobbing girls because it is part of yer psyche to be whiners because Trump lost....If you don't like the blend drive an EV or buy premium, there are choices...



I remember you not whining on this forum 100 times a day for four years straight when Trump was president.


----------



## Cougarbear

1srelluc said:


> WASHINGTON, April 12 (Reuters) - U.S. President Joe Biden will unveil plans on Tuesday to extend the availability of higher biofuels-blended gasoline during summer to curb soaring fuel costs and to cut reliance on foreign energy sources, senior administration officials said.
> 
> The move will allow Americans to keep buying E15, a gasoline that uses a 15% ethanol blend, from June 1 to Sept. 15. While E15 is only 10 cents cheaper on average and is less "energy dense," *meaning drivers would need to buy more fuel,* it should still help lower fuel expenses, they told reporters on a call previewing the announcement.
> 
> Biden to allow higher-ethanol fuel sales in summer to check gas prices
> 
> Drivers get less mileage out of E-15 but it's 10 cent less.....Only slag dems would think that that's a "savings".
> 
> To add insult to injury the world is facing a food shortage and we are going to burn yet more corn in our tanks?
> 
> Ya, that is the Tater admin for ya.


It is also more expensive to make as well. So, in the long run, it doesn't save anyone money. Just allow more oil to flow through our pipelines and allow for more drilling making us energy independent again like under Trump.


----------



## beagle9

Cougarbear said:


> It is also more expensive to make as well. So, in the long run, it doesn't save anyone money. Just allow more oil to flow through our pipelines and allow for more drilling making us energy independent again like under Trump.


These dipsticks to allow that ? Not over Trump's orange body they won't. Like I said along time ago, they would let this nation burn to the ground before they give an inch that might lift up a conservative. Fact.


----------



## Mac-7

Jarlaxle said:


> Yeah,it was so hard to afford my retired police cruiser. Caravans cost a fortune.  Ford pickups priced like a Rolls-Royce!
> 
> All happily burn E15.


E-15 Fuel No Good For Older Cars

*EPA recognized this fuel will seriously damage vehicles manufactured prior to 2001 and small engines used in boats, motorcycles, chain saws and snowmobiles. They will therefore require pump labels listing those vehicles in which E15 can be safely used and warning of the consequences of using it in other vehicles and gasoline powered equipment.*

I’m not sure how many Americans biden has screwed with this government mandate but its certainly in the 10s of millions


----------



## task0778

Golfing Gator said:


> Most of the corn produced last year is already under contract. Half has already been disposed of and the rest is not just sitting there hoping someone buys it.



Still not getting it.  Say you're an ethanol company, knowing that the EPA rules say that E15 cannot be sold in most of the country between June 1 and Sept. 15 because of air pollution rules.  So, all of your contracts were done with that in mind and you bought enough corn and produced enough ethanol to get you to June 1, with maybe a small margin if demand increases more than you figured.  But you're not going to have a shit-ton of ethanol in storage or a shit-ton of corn cuz there are storage costs to consider, almost certainly not enough to cover the higher demand now that Biden's EPA has waived that summer rule.  IOW, now you've got an increase in demand that you have not accounted for, right?  Am I to assume you purchased enough corn already to cover that possibility?  Your contract said X tons of corn at price Y, right?  But now you need X+Z tons of corn to produce the extra ethanol that you are now going to sell from June 1 to Sept 1, right?

Corn doesn't keep forever, it's biodegradable, right?  Somehow, someway, and at some time there has to be an increase in the demand for corn because more corn will be needed to cover the extra ethanol in our gas tanks this summer.  I don't see any way around that.  Demand has to go up, and with it so does the price.  Maybe there is less corn available for livestock feed.  Maybe there are fewer cans of corn on our grocery store shelves.  The corn used to produce the extra ethanol has to come from somewhere and at the expense of some other use.

You can't just pull more produce out of thin air.


----------



## Jarlaxle

Mac-7 said:


> E-15 Fuel No Good For Older Cars
> 
> *EPA recognized this fuel will seriously damage vehicles manufactured prior to 2001 and small engines used in boats, motorcycles, chain saws and snowmobiles. They will therefore require pump labels listing those vehicles in which E15 can be safely used and warning of the consequences of using it in other vehicles and gasoline powered equipment.*
> 
> I’m not sure how many Americans biden has screwed with this government mandate but its certainly in the 10s of millions


Yes...if you're REALLY STUPID, you'll screw up your small engines.


----------



## Mac-7

Jarlaxle said:


> Yes...if you're REALLY STUPID, you'll screw up your small engines.


Small engines may not have the proper seals for E15 gas


----------



## Death Angel

CrusaderFrank said:


> 25th Amendment!
> 
> For the love of Everything!


Funny the Dems won't talk about this with Mr Potatohead. 

That'll change after the November massacre


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Death Angel said:


> Funny the Dems won't talk about this with Mr Potatohead.
> 
> That'll change after the November massacre



Maybe they'll take out Biden in way to rally the nation behind them.  I fully expect something absolutely major to interfere with the midterms


----------



## task0778

Death Angel said:


> Funny the Dems won't talk about this with Mr Potatohead.
> 
> That'll change after the November massacre



They will NOT 25th Amendment him, it's too much like admitting you fucked up.  No, they'll try to get him to resign for health reasons, but only if they lose the Senate in November.  Cuz if they still have the Senate after November then Harris would still be the tiebreaking vote as the VP.  Once she replaces Biden in the WH that's gone, and I don't see that happening if the Dems still have a Senate majority.  Biden may suffer a stroke or something anyway, and then it gets interesting if that occurs.  Would the Dems try to run the WH with Biden still the prez even if he is incapacitated?


----------



## rightnow909

1srelluc said:


> WASHINGTON, April 12 (Reuters) - U.S. President Joe Biden will unveil plans on Tuesday to extend the availability of higher biofuels-blended gasoline during summer to curb soaring fuel costs and to cut reliance on foreign energy sources, senior administration officials said.
> 
> f


figures

ethanol is NOT good  for a car's engine.. If you let a car sit a long time with ethanol in it, the water in the ethanol separates from the actual gas and causes RUST inside the engine...

I didn't get shutting down the pipelines... they are safer environmentally than carrying oil by tanker car on a train... but bye dim... all he cares about is defying Trump and Trump supporters...

=


----------



## rightnow909

Rambunctious said:


> This will exasperate the global food shortage and add to the rising cost of food....corn syrup is in everything.....Joe is either trying to bring America down or he is one stupid asshole.....


why do I tend to think both?

sheez

God save America (if its possible)

Even God may not be capable..... well, I mean, if He really wanted to ... but He gives man free will and pretty much gives man control of the whole damn world...

In any case, i think elite dims are dumb enough to think they have to pretty much destroy the country to... "build back better"...

stupid as hell..........


----------



## Meister

Moonglow said:


> No matter what Biden does yous guys will whine and cry like a little girl already.


Well, higher ethanol equates to lower MPG and more fuel needs to be consumed.
So there's that.


----------



## Meister

rightnow909 said:


> figures
> 
> ethanol is NOT good  for a car's engine.. If you let a car sit a long time with ethanol in it, the water in the ethanol separates from the actual gas and causes RUST inside the engine...
> 
> I didn't get shutting down the pipelines... they are safer environmentally than carrying oil by tanker car on a train... but bye dim... all he cares about is defying Trump and Trump supporters...
> 
> =


Also, rust in the gas tank and clogs the fuel filter.


----------



## beagle9

rightnow909 said:


> figures
> 
> ethanol is NOT good  for a car's engine.. If you let a car sit a long time with ethanol in it, the water in the ethanol separates from the actual gas and causes RUST inside the engine...
> 
> I didn't get shutting down the pipelines... they are safer environmentally than carrying oil by tanker car on a train... but bye dim... all he cares about is defying Trump and Trump supporters...
> 
> =


Exactly right.... Nail on the head...


----------



## Vrenn

rightnow909 said:


> figures
> 
> ethanol is NOT good  for a car's engine.. If you let a car sit a long time with ethanol in it, the water in the ethanol separates from the actual gas and causes RUST inside the engine...
> 
> I didn't get shutting down the pipelines... they are safer environmentally than carrying oil by tanker car on a train... but bye dim... all he cares about is defying Trump and Trump supporters...
> 
> =



YOu need to learn to read and turn off Pawssnews for a change.  The pipeline that was shutdown was for dirty crude that the US has zero use for.  I  would have tied up at least one refinery only to export something we can't use in US.  There is only a couple of real beneciaries from  the Keystone XL and that is the Government of Canada and Koch Industriies.  Even our Oil Companies wouldn't see a dime from it.


----------



## Ghost1776

Oh imagine that :









						New study finds corn-based ethanol fuel is actually WORSE FOR THE ENVIRONMENT than regular gasoline
					

A new study has found that corn-based ethanol, the main source of supposedly green ethanol fuel in the United States, may actually be worse for the environment than regular gasoline. The new study, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS), contradicts previous...




					newstarget.com


----------



## DudleySmith

1srelluc said:


> To add insult to injury the world is facing a food shortage and we are going to burn yet more corn in our tanks?



Yes, increasing that worthless ethanol crap is exactly the wrong thing to do, but then the fuel and food shortages here in the U.S. are all fake anyway, so he figures its' okay, since it only screws the peasants.


----------



## DudleySmith

Ralph Norton said:


> Don't know too much about cars - is 15% ethanol bad for engines?



Not if you think covering your engine with varnish and ruining the motor oil in your crankcase in a month is good, like Democrats do.


----------



## Foolardi

Moonglow said:


> No matter what Biden does yous guys will whine and cry like a little girl already.


 Any Hot Rodders { New trend } are bowled over my the damaging 
  effects of Ethanol.Now boosting it with higher levels will only 
  harm typical engines.It'd be like giving an already obese child in 
  7th Grade the biggest paper bag available for Trick r Treat.


----------



## Imnukingfutz

1srelluc said:


> WASHINGTON, April 12 (Reuters) - U.S. President Joe Biden will unveil plans on Tuesday to extend the availability of higher biofuels-blended gasoline during summer to curb soaring fuel costs and to cut reliance on foreign energy sources, senior administration officials said.
> 
> The move will allow Americans to keep buying E15, a gasoline that uses a 15% ethanol blend, from June 1 to Sept. 15. While E15 is only 10 cents cheaper on average and is less "energy dense," *meaning drivers would need to buy more fuel,* it should still help lower fuel expenses, they told reporters on a call previewing the announcement.
> 
> Biden to allow higher-ethanol fuel sales in summer to check gas prices
> 
> Drivers get less mileage out of E-15 but it's 10 cent less.....Only slag dems would think that that's a "savings".
> 
> To add insult to injury the world is facing a food shortage and we are going to burn yet more corn in our tanks?
> 
> Ya, that is the Tater admin for ya.


like the article says, a few cents cheaper per gallon and less efficient, so that means buying fuel more often which negates any savings, worst case it increases monthly cost to consumers. 

Why the hell doesn't this administration just get a step on approving permits so we can retrieve the oil here. Oh, I forgot...Ole Pedo Joe is beholden to the far leftwing moonbat part of the Democrat party where domestic oil drilling is bad but buying oil from other countries is good, even if some of those other countries are hostile to the US and our Allies. Much better to give them our money then buy our own oil and keep more of that money here where people could have nice high paying jobs. Greater tax revenue to the coffers when more people work and pay taxes but logic doesn't seem to be a strong suit from this administration.


----------



## Oldestyle

Vrenn said:


> Wah, Wah, Wah.
> 
> The only thing you need to do to run E15 is to retune.  My Hemi likes it and gets quite a power boost from it over 93 octane.  Not as good as 100 octane but try and find that and be able to afford it.
> 
> You are playing Politics when there is nothing there.  I bet that your head is exploding knowing the sales of EVs are on the rise.  So keep crying like the little baby you are.  Wah, Wah, Wah.


Bullshit!  Anyone that knows anything about engines knows that ethanol damages them.  Why do you think boaters shell out more money for fuel that doesn't have ethanol in it?


----------



## beagle9

Oldestyle said:


> Bullshit!  Anyone that knows anything about engines knows that ethanol damages them.  Why do you think boaters shell out more money for fuel that doesn't have ethanol in it?


I just had to cringe when I paid over 5 buck's a gallon for non-ethanol gas.. Wow. It's worth it though, because like you say and like I know that ethanol destroys gasoline system's, and it shortens the life of the engine over time. Not good.


----------



## Oldestyle

beagle9 said:


> I just had to cringe when I paid over 5 buck's a gallon for non-ethanol gas.. Wow. It's worth it though, because like you say and like I know that ethanol destroys gasoline system's, and it shortens the life of the engine over time. Not good.


One more thing that Biden and his minions don't care about, Beagle!  Give it a year and watch the auto repair shops start to fill up.  It'll be "transitory" though...don't you worry!  (eye roll)


----------



## beagle9

Oldestyle said:


> One more thing that Biden and his minions don't care about, Beagle!  Give it a year and watch the auto repair shops start to fill up.  It'll be "transitory" though...don't you worry!  (eye roll)


Biden and company are a bunch of out of touch bafoons. Well Biden's been there long enough to know better, but what we are learning is that Biden has been faking his experience for a long time, and now that he has been placed into one of the most top job's in the land, his inexperience is revealed big time.


----------



## Vrenn

Imnukingfutz said:


> like the article says, a few cents cheaper per gallon and less efficient, so that means buying fuel more often which negates any savings, worst case it increases monthly cost to consumers.
> 
> Why the hell doesn't this administration just get a step on approving permits so we can retrieve the oil here. Oh, I forgot...Ole Pedo Joe is beholden to the far leftwing moonbat part of the Democrat party where domestic oil drilling is bad but buying oil from other countries is good, even if some of those other countries are hostile to the US and our Allies. Much better to give them our money then buy our own oil and keep more of that money here where people could have nice high paying jobs. Greater tax revenue to the coffers when more people work and pay taxes but logic doesn't seem to be a strong suit from this administration.



That's because the Oil Companies already have the permits to do that.  In fact, they have a gluttony of permits they aren't using already.  Here in Colorado, we have oil wells capped off that have oil that could be producing with the turn of a crank.  But you can't ship more oil than the refineries can handle.  And you can't refine more oil than the storage facilities and the transports can handle.  The truth to the matter is, the oil companies are all making record profits even by selling less gas products.  Why would they be producing more when they would be cutting their own throats?

And why would the Admin be issuing more permits into sensitive areas when the ones already issued are not being used?


----------



## Vrenn

Imnukingfutz said:


> like the article says, a few cents cheaper per gallon and less efficient, so that means buying fuel more often which negates any savings, worst case it increases monthly cost to consumers.
> 
> Why the hell doesn't this administration just get a step on approving permits so we can retrieve the oil here. Oh, I forgot...Ole Pedo Joe is beholden to the far leftwing moonbat part of the Democrat party where domestic oil drilling is bad but buying oil from other countries is good, even if some of those other countries are hostile to the US and our Allies. Much better to give them our money then buy our own oil and keep more of that money here where people could have nice high paying jobs. Greater tax revenue to the coffers when more people work and pay taxes but logic doesn't seem to be a strong suit from this administration.



Okay, I run a Hemi with mods.  That means that I have more than a 1 to one HP to CID already.  I usually run on 87 octane due to cost but can easily go to 91 or 93.  But if I do get serious and don't have deep pocket books, I will switch to E85 and have to do a serious retune.  If I go to a 100 octane I would also do a serious retune but a different one.  

When you start running high power outputs, you engine starts getting hot, real hot including the intake, heads, valves and cylinders.  The cooler you can run them the more power you can force out of them.  It is especially true on boosted engines of both supercharged and turbocharged engines.  They have a tendency to have hot and cool spots during detonation  in the combustion chambers.  E85 limits those cold spots.   and limits the hot spots in the other components.  Yes, 100 and 110 octane can exceed the power of E85 but they use brute force to do it.  You would better to run E85 than the higher octane ratings because the higher octane ratings would have extreme hot and cold differences and cost as hell of a lot more.

There are some serious motorheads that run E85 year round and have the tuning to do it.  The big reason that they E85 has the bad rap is not because it's bad, it's because the oil companies want to you to believe it and they are quite affective.  Yes, there might be as MPG difference or two but the power levels of a properly tuned E85 is actually slightly better than a 87 octane and it costs less.  Today, most engines are high compression high HP to CID output so E85 works pretty well.  But so does 87 octane.  But when I put my foot in it, the E85 shows it stuff more and with either, the gas mileage goes out the window at that point.  In the Hemi World, it's called "Putting a big smile on my face".


----------



## Oldestyle

Vrenn said:


> That's because the Oil Companies already have the permits to do that.  In fact, they have a gluttony of permits they aren't using already.  Here in Colorado, we have oil wells capped off that have oil that could be producing with the turn of a crank.  But you can't ship more oil than the refineries can handle.  And you can't refine more oil than the storage facilities and the transports can handle.  The truth to the matter is, the oil companies are all making record profits even by selling less gas products.  Why would they be producing more when they would be cutting their own throats?
> 
> And why would the Admin be issuing more permits into sensitive areas when the ones already issued are not being used?


Wow...talk about someone gobbling up the bullshit that this Administration is putting out!  The TRUTH is that Joe Biden's little group of idiots decided right out of the gate that they were going to shut down oil and natural gas production and push their Green New Deal!  They started that on day one and it continues until present day.  That decision has led to out of control gas prices and sky rocketing prices on just about every other commodity that Americans buy!  
You liberals OWN this because your clueless policies made it happen!


----------



## Vrenn

Oldestyle said:


> Wow...talk about someone gobbling up the bullshit that this Administration is putting out!  The TRUTH is that Joe Biden's little group of idiots decided right out of the gate that they were going to shut down oil and natural gas production and push their Green New Deal!  They started that on day one and it continues until present day.  That decision has led to out of control gas prices and sky rocketing prices on just about every other commodity that Americans buy!
> You liberals OWN this because your clueless policies made it happen!



I am a 71 year of Drag Racer with a Hemi that has an ET of 11.462 without running boost out of a 5.7 Hemi.  Some call it a Cinderella Engine.  I call it taking the old and reintroducing it into the new.  My goal was to equal or exceed a Hemi 392 in all ways and do it normally aspirated and I did it.  Okay, I did cheat a bit.  But I ain't saying how nor pointing it out.  E85 works well just like it did in the old German Fighter Aircraft Engines and the Allison V-12s.


----------



## Oldestyle

Vrenn said:


> I am a 71 year of Drag Racer with a Hemi that has an ET of 11.462 without running boost out of a 5.7 Hemi.  Some call it a Cinderella Engine.  I call it taking the old and reintroducing it into the new.  My goal was to equal or exceed a Hemi 392 in all ways and do it normally aspirated and I did it.  Okay, I did cheat a bit.  But I ain't saying how nor pointing it out.  E85 works well just like it did in the old German Fighter Aircraft Engines and the Allison V-12s.


Who cares?
You support an idiot who's ruined the US economy.  Get your head out of your Hemi and realize how bad things are for your fellow Americans because people like you voted Joe Biden into office!


----------



## Vrenn

Oldestyle said:


> Who cares?
> You support an idiot who's ruined the US economy.  Get your head out of your Hemi and realize how bad things are for your fellow Americans because people like you voted Joe Biden into office!



I am just pointing out that you are attempting to use something that you don't know squat about because some Executive told you it was true in order to sell more oil products at higher prices.  Forget about whether Biden supports it or not.  And it's being offered at the pumps as an option where it's YOU that gets the option to buy it or not over another product.  You don't have to press the button.  So it's you that are trying to remove my option to buy it or not.  Sounds to me like your Authoritian way of life is trying to run mine.  Well, Benito, that ship has sailed.


----------



## Oldestyle

Vrenn said:


> I am just pointing out that you are attempting to use something that you don't know squat about because some Executive told you it was true in order to sell more oil products at higher prices.  Forget about whether Biden supports it or not.  And it's being offered at the pumps as an option where it's YOU that gets the option to buy it or not over another product.  You don't have to press the button.  So it's you that are trying to remove my option to buy it or not.  Sounds to me like your Authoritian way of life is trying to run mine.  Well, Benito, that ship has sailed.


Ethanol is terrible on things like gaskets, Vrenn...it's why boaters don't run it in their engines.  The more ethanol you put into gas...the more damage it's going to do to your engine.


----------



## Oldestyle

Vrenn said:


> I am just pointing out that you are attempting to use something that you don't know squat about because some Executive told you it was true in order to sell more oil products at higher prices.  Forget about whether Biden supports it or not.  And it's being offered at the pumps as an option where it's YOU that gets the option to buy it or not over another product.  You don't have to press the button.  So it's you that are trying to remove my option to buy it or not.  Sounds to me like your Authoritian way of life is trying to run mine.  Well, Benito, that ship has sailed.


Biden is pushing it because he knows he's FUBARED things so badly he's desperate for anything to bring down the price of gasoline!  Most people don't have a clue about the downside of ethanol and won't until the engine on their vehicle suddenly needs expensive repairs.


----------



## Vrenn

Oldestyle said:


> Ethanol is terrible on things like gaskets, Vrenn...it's why boaters don't run it in their engines.  The more ethanol you put into gas...the more damage it's going to do to your engine.



Then I suggest you fire your engine builder.  Or buy better gaskets.  Just like Unleaded burns up valve stems.  Buy Sodium filled Valve Stem Valves.  10 and 15% isn't enough to harm a damned thing.  Now go for what the Alchy Boys do in the Alcohol Drags of 50% or better and then I would believe you.  They go through gaskets (mainly head gaskets and every other top end gasket) about every other run unless they change them out which they do.  But E85 doesn't have enough juice in it to eat gaskets unless that gasket was going to go anyway.  You are listening to the Oil Companies crying in their beer again.  Oh, that's right, that's alcohol, isn't it.


----------



## Vrenn

Oldestyle said:


> Biden is pushing it because he knows he's FUBARED things so badly he's desperate for anything to bring down the price of gasoline!  Most people don't have a clue about the downside of ethanol and won't until the engine on their vehicle suddenly needs expensive repairs.



Wah, Wah, Wah.  It's all Bidens fault.  Get the F over it.


----------



## Oldestyle

Vrenn said:


> Wah, Wah, Wah.  It's all Bidens fault.  Get the F over it.


It's Biden's policies, Vrenn.  He backed the far left's Green Agenda from day one and deliberately increased the price of oil and natural gas.  Get over it?  The drooling idiot in the Oval Office is costing me and every other American THOUSANDS of dollars!  I'm pissed about that.  So are most people.  See you in November.  You liberals are about to reap what you have sown!


----------



## Vrenn

Oldestyle said:


> It's Biden's policies, Vrenn.  He backed the far left's Green Agenda from day one and deliberately increased the price of oil and natural gas.  Get over it?  The drooling idiot in the Oval Office is costing me and every other American THOUSANDS of dollars!  I'm pissed about that.  So are most people.  See you in November.  You liberals are about to reap what you have sown!



I live in the mountains of Colorado.  We got tired of the Black Snow that NYC put up with all the way into the 2000s.  We stopped it in the 1970s.  We gave up our coal fired furnaces, and factories and, yes it hurt.   Today, we have almost 100% renewable energy from Hydroelectric, Wind and Solar.  We shut down our last coal fired plant about 5 years ago.  The employees stayed on to clean up the mess until now.  Now, they are trying to figure out what to do with that work force.  If you have a coal fired plant, not far from it you will have at least one mine.  You shut down the plant you also shut down the mine which uses the bulk of the coal taken from the mines.  That's a few thousand workers.  

Does that affect the price of oil?  Sure it does in the short term.  Until new uses for coal and oil are found.  For instance, we had a series of 10 mines shut down due to a severe reduction in coal exporting.  It wiped out an entire town.  People were destitute.  One very rich couple came into town and fell in love with the place and converted those 10 mines into a fiber optic plant.  Coal can be made in fiber optic as long as you don't have to transport the raw material very far.  Everyone is back to work, they actually had to bring in more people and the wages are better than ever.  They fully automated the mines and put the people to work in the manufacturing side making their health much better.  

As for oil, we were sucking too hard on the Petro Titt.  Electric Cars predates Gasoline cars but there was about a 100 year period where the electric car was just set aside and not advanced.  It wasn't until the 1990s that the electric transportation was seriously looked at and began developing.  It took Gasoline cars about 50 years to reach decent maturity once they became something other than an oddity.  Start counting on the the Electric Car from 1990 and it's actually ahead of the Gas Powered Car on development.  2024 is going to be a fun year for everyone.  Get ready for some staggering performance and a bunch of under 10K cars.

Now, we have to figure out how to pay for the roads and bridges to drive these new cars on.  Care to work on that because you ain't going to stop it,


----------



## Oldestyle

Vrenn said:


> I live in the mountains of Colorado.  We got tired of the Black Snow that NYC put up with all the way into the 2000s.  We stopped it in the 1970s.  We gave up our coal fired furnaces, and factories and, yes it hurt.   Today, we have almost 100% renewable energy from Hydroelectric, Wind and Solar.  We shut down our last coal fired plant about 5 years ago.  The employees stayed on to clean up the mess until now.  Now, they are trying to figure out what to do with that work force.  If you have a coal fired plant, not far from it you will have at least one mine.  You shut down the plant you also shut down the mine which uses the bulk of the coal taken from the mines.  That's a few thousand workers.
> 
> Does that affect the price of oil?  Sure it does in the short term.  Until new uses for coal and oil are found.  For instance, we had a series of 10 mines shut down due to a severe reduction in coal exporting.  It wiped out an entire town.  People were destitute.  One very rich couple came into town and fell in love with the place and converted those 10 mines into a fiber optic plant.  Coal can be made in fiber optic as long as you don't have to transport the raw material very far.  Everyone is back to work, they actually had to bring in more people and the wages are better than ever.  They fully automated the mines and put the people to work in the manufacturing side making their health much better.
> 
> As for oil, we were sucking too hard on the Petro Titt.  Electric Cars predates Gasoline cars but there was about a 100 year period where the electric car was just set aside and not advanced.  It wasn't until the 1990s that the electric transportation was seriously looked at and began developing.  It took Gasoline cars about 50 years to reach decent maturity once they became something other than an oddity.  Start counting on the the Electric Car from 1990 and it's actually ahead of the Gas Powered Car on development.  2024 is going to be a fun year for everyone.  Get ready for some staggering performance and a bunch of under 10K cars.
> 
> Now, we have to figure out how to pay for the roads and bridges to drive these new cars on.  Care to work on that because you ain't going to stop it,


You're so full of shit!  36% of the electricity in Colorado comes from coal...another 26% comes from natural gas.  Do you just pull things out of your ass?








						Electricity Sources by State (June 2022) | Choose Energy®
					

Electricity sources vary by state. Discover where electricity comes from in your state with our June 2022 Electricity Generation Report.




					www.chooseenergy.com


----------



## Oldestyle

Vrenn said:


> I live in the mountains of Colorado.  We got tired of the Black Snow that NYC put up with all the way into the 2000s.  We stopped it in the 1970s.  We gave up our coal fired furnaces, and factories and, yes it hurt.   Today, we have almost 100% renewable energy from Hydroelectric, Wind and Solar.  We shut down our last coal fired plant about 5 years ago.  The employees stayed on to clean up the mess until now.  Now, they are trying to figure out what to do with that work force.  If you have a coal fired plant, not far from it you will have at least one mine.  You shut down the plant you also shut down the mine which uses the bulk of the coal taken from the mines.  That's a few thousand workers.
> 
> Does that affect the price of oil?  Sure it does in the short term.  Until new uses for coal and oil are found.  For instance, we had a series of 10 mines shut down due to a severe reduction in coal exporting.  It wiped out an entire town.  People were destitute.  One very rich couple came into town and fell in love with the place and converted those 10 mines into a fiber optic plant.  Coal can be made in fiber optic as long as you don't have to transport the raw material very far.  Everyone is back to work, they actually had to bring in more people and the wages are better than ever.  They fully automated the mines and put the people to work in the manufacturing side making their health much better.
> 
> As for oil, we were sucking too hard on the Petro Titt.  Electric Cars predates Gasoline cars but there was about a 100 year period where the electric car was just set aside and not advanced.  It wasn't until the 1990s that the electric transportation was seriously looked at and began developing.  It took Gasoline cars about 50 years to reach decent maturity once they became something other than an oddity.  Start counting on the the Electric Car from 1990 and it's actually ahead of the Gas Powered Car on development.  2024 is going to be a fun year for everyone.  Get ready for some staggering performance and a bunch of under 10K cars.
> 
> Now, we have to figure out how to pay for the roads and bridges to drive these new cars on.  Care to work on that because you ain't going to stop it,


And New York gets "black snow" because it doesn't get snowfalls like Colorado.  If snow sits around for awhile it gets dirty.  Duh?  I lived in Aspen for ten years.  We had alternate days to burn wood fired stoves and fire places because of pollution levels in the valley.  If we hadn't gotten snow practically every day...THAT snow would have started looking dirty as well!


----------



## Vrenn

Oldestyle said:


> You're so full of shit!  36% of the electricity in Colorado comes from coal...another 26% comes from natural gas.  Do you just pull things out of your ass?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Electricity Sources by State (June 2022) | Choose Energy®
> 
> 
> Electricity sources vary by state. Discover where electricity comes from in your state with our June 2022 Electricity Generation Report.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.chooseenergy.com



So you spent a half hour look for something that hints at what you think backs you up.  Well, junior, half of Colorado is like Kansas while the other half is Rocky Mountain.  We have two states in one.  The Eastern Slope comprises more than half the population and uses MOST of the energy.  But it produces almost none of the energy.  We produced that energy and still do.  The only difference is, how we produce it.  Our water has turned clear, our snow has turned white and our air has turned pure.    Meanwhile, the eastern slope is still fouling theirs up.    And so are you.


----------



## Vrenn

Oldestyle said:


> And New York gets "black snow" because it doesn't get snowfalls like Colorado.  If snow sits around for awhile it gets dirty.  Duh?  I lived in Aspen for ten years.  We had alternate days to burn wood fired stoves and fire places because of pollution levels in the valley.  If we hadn't gotten snow practically every day...THAT snow would have started looking dirty as well!



And if you burned coal for power daily your snow would have been black.  Or if you had a factory that used coal fired furnaces the coal would be black.  Aspen went to a small Hydro Power Unit for electric power early on and you used it.  What's sad is, today, Aspen is one of our dirtier western towns. but it's better than flat landers.


----------



## Oldestyle

Vrenn said:


> So you spent a half hour look for something that hints at what you think backs you up.  Well, junior, half of Colorado is like Kansas while the other half is Rocky Mountain.  We have two states in one.  The Eastern Slope comprises more than half the population and uses MOST of the energy.  But it produces almost none of the energy.  We produced that energy and still do.  The only difference is, how we produce it.  Our water has turned clear, our snow has turned white and our air has turned pure.    Meanwhile, the eastern slope is still fouling theirs up.    And so are you.


You're unbelievable.  You claim that Colorado doesn't get any of it's electricity from coal but has gone totally "green" but when I point out that's total BULLSHIT...you double down on the lie by claiming that Colorado are "two states in one"?  You're a joke!


----------



## Oldestyle

Vrenn said:


> And if you burned coal for power daily your snow would have been black.  Or if you had a factory that used coal fired furnaces the coal would be black.  Aspen went to a small Hydro Power Unit for electric power early on and you used it.  What's sad is, today, Aspen is one of our dirtier western towns. but it's better than flat landers.


And Aspen didn't use hydro power since the 1950's when it started buying it's electricity off the grid.  It didn't build the Reudi hydro plant until 1985.  Is there anything else you want to prove your ignorance of?  Like the four coal powered plants west of the Continental Divide?


----------



## Vrenn

Oldestyle said:


> You're unbelievable.  You claim that Colorado doesn't get any of it's electricity from coal but has gone totally "green" but when I point out that's total BULLSHIT...you double down on the lie by claiming that Colorado are "two states in one"?  You're a joke!



Did I say Colorado?  No.   You are looking for a Gotcha.  You just can't believe that any state can have two completely different and distinct areas that are different.  Funny, the Red part of the state is the one that is greener.  But don't let that fact hit you on the ass on your way out.


----------



## Oldestyle

Vrenn said:


> Did I say Colorado?  No.   You are looking for a Gotcha.  You just can't believe that any state can have two completely different and distinct areas that are different.  Funny, the Red part of the state is the one that is greener.  But don't let that fact hit you on the ass on your way out.


Are you trying to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're utterly clueless?  Did you miss the part where the Western Slope has four coal fired power plants?  You know...when according to you they've all been closed?  Looking for a "Gotcha"?  Dude, you stepped on your dick!  You actually ran into someone who knows Colorado and knows how much crap you're shoveling when you talk about it!


----------



## Oldestyle

Oldestyle said:


> Are you trying to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're utterly clueless?  Did you miss the part where the Western Slope has four coal fired power plants?  You know...when according to you they've all been closed?  Looking for a "Gotcha"?  Dude, you stepped on your dick!  You actually ran into someone who knows Colorado and knows how much crap you're shoveling when you talk about it!


As for what is the "Red" part of Colorado?  Outside of the Denver area and the ski towns...the rest of Colorado is pretty darned conservative.  For some reason you seem to think the Western slope is liberal.  It isn't!


----------



## Vrenn

Oldestyle said:


> Are you trying to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're utterly clueless?  Did you miss the part where the Western Slope has four coal fired power plants?  You know...when according to you they've all been closed?  Looking for a "Gotcha"?  Dude, you stepped on your dick!  You actually ran into someone who knows Colorado and knows how much crap you're shoveling when you talk about it!



And where are those 4 coal fired plants at?  Break out your swami hat and tell us.


----------



## Vrenn

Oldestyle said:


> As for what is the "Red" part of Colorado?  Outside of the Denver area and the ski towns...the rest of Colorado is pretty darned conservative.  For some reason you seem to think the Western slope is liberal.  It isn't!



What is mistaken for Red is when taking care of Mother Earth.  It's not Red or Blue.  Conservative and Progressive.  WE have Democrats and Republicans, Indys and others that are caretakers.  A lot of us don't believe that we actually own the land.  We look after it.  I don't expect most of you to understand.

\


----------



## Oldestyle

Vrenn said:


> And where are those 4 coal fired plants at?  Break out your swami hat and tell us.


Gee, Vrenn...do you really even live in Colorado?  Why is it you know nothing about it?


----------



## Oldestyle

Vrenn said:


> What is mistaken for Red is when taking care of Mother Earth.  It's not Red or Blue.  Conservative and Progressive.  WE have Democrats and Republicans, Indys and others that are caretakers.  A lot of us don't believe that we actually own the land.  We look after it.  I don't expect most of you to understand.
> 
> \


Oh, God...you're one of those?  You don't actually "own" the land?  Ignorant and amusing go so well together.


----------



## Vrenn

Oldestyle said:


> Gee, Vrenn...do you really even live in Colorado?  Why is it you know nothing about it?



Ah, standard rumpster method of argument.


----------



## Oldestyle

Vrenn said:


> Ah, standard rumpster method of argument.


You mean pointing out how full of shit you are when you claimed Colorado had shut down it's coal fired plants and was getting the bulk of it's electricity from "green" sources?  Pointing out that there are still FOUR coal burning plants on the Western Slope of Colorado after you claimed there were zero?  You're a blowhard, Vrenn.  You don't have a clue what you're talking about and when you get challenged on your "facts" you get all pissy and start declaring you're above debate!  Why don't you do the board a favor and get educated on topics like this before you waste our time with your drivel!


----------



## Sunsettommy

Oddball said:


> ETOH is shit for engines, difficult to transport, and wastes farmland space better suited for food production.


 Also promotes Ozone emissions in the cities.

EPA

Health Effects of Ozone Pollution​
Ozone in the air we breathe can harm our health, especially on hot sunny days when ozone can reach unhealthy levels. Even relatively low levels of ozone can cause health effects.


----------



## Vrenn

Oldestyle said:


> You mean pointing out how full of shit you are when you claimed Colorado had shut down it's coal fired plants and was getting the bulk of it's electricity from "green" sources?  Pointing out that there are still FOUR coal burning plants on the Western Slope of Colorado after you claimed there were zero?  You're a blowhard, Vrenn.  You don't have a clue what you're talking about and when you get challenged on your "facts" you get all pissy and start declaring you're above debate!  Why don't you do the board a favor and get educated on topics like this before you waste our time with your drivel!



You still haven't given the location of those 4 western slope coal fired electric power plants.    Standard Rumpster method of arguing.


----------



## Oldestyle

Vrenn said:


> You still haven't given the location of those 4 western slope coal fired electric power plants.    Standard Rumpster method of arguing.







__





						Category:Existing coal plants in Colorado - SourceWatch
					






					sourcewatch.org
				



Unlike you, Vrenn...I don't talk about things I know nothing about.


----------



## Vrenn

Oldestyle said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Category:Existing coal plants in Colorado - SourceWatch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sourcewatch.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike you, Vrenn...I don't talk about things I know nothing about.



Really now.

Cameo Power Station shut down in 2010.  https://www.coloradonuclearatlas.org/site/former-cameo-power-plant/mill-tailings  Many go there to use the outdoor shooting ranges.  They have cleaned the whole place up and there is no hint of any coal fired plants anymore.  

Nucla Power Station is to be retired by Dec 2022 but the coal to run it was shut down in 2019 which effectively shuts it down.  When you retire a Coal Fired Power Plant that means that the clean up has been completed.  The Shutdown date is when it no longer produces power.  The last time I was in Nucla (just up the road from here same county) there were a lot of construction going on to get rid of all hint that there ever was any coal powered factory there.  

That leaves the two in Craig which are being operated at 18% capacity until 2025 which then are to be completely shutdown.  And it will be completely retired (cleaned up) by 2028.  There is talk about shutting them completely down at the end of this year and going for clean up.  There really isn't any reason to have them in operation anymore.


----------



## Oldestyle

Vrenn said:


> Really now.
> 
> Cameo Power Station shut down in 2010.  https://www.coloradonuclearatlas.org/site/former-cameo-power-plant/mill-tailings  Many go there to use the outdoor shooting ranges.  They have cleaned the whole place up and there is no hint of any coal fired plants anymore.
> 
> Nucla Power Station is to be retired by Dec 2022 but the coal to run it was shut down in 2019 which effectively shuts it down.  When you retire a Coal Fired Power Plant that means that the clean up has been completed.  The Shutdown date is when it no longer produces power.  The last time I was in Nucla (just up the road from here same county) there were a lot of construction going on to get rid of all hint that there ever was any coal powered factory there.
> 
> That leaves the two in Craig which are being operated at 18% capacity until 2025 which then are to be completely shutdown.  And it will be completely retired (cleaned up) by 2028.  There is talk about shutting them completely down at the end of this year and going for clean up.  There really isn't any reason to have them in operation anymore.


So the plants you claimed didn't exist actually do?  Gee what a shock!


----------



## Vrenn

Oldestyle said:


> So the plants you claimed didn't exist actually do?  Gee what a shock!



You claimed 4.  There are only 2 and they are operating at 18% capacity and soon to be shut down.


----------



## Oldestyle

Vrenn said:


> You claimed 4.  There are only 2 and they are operating at 18% capacity and soon to be shut down.


----------



## Oldestyle

And you claimed ZERO!  Duh?


----------



## Vrenn

Oldestyle said:


> And you claimed ZERO!  Duh?


Havea nice life


----------



## Oldestyle

Vrenn said:


> Havea nice life


And you enjoy yours in Fantasy Land, Vrenn!
Get back to me when Colorado isn't getting 60% of its electricity from coal and natural gas!


----------



## Jarlaxle

Oldestyle said:


> Bullshit!  Anyone that knows anything about engines knows that ethanol damages them.  Why do you think boaters shell out more money for fuel that doesn't have ethanol in it?



Shoddy parts, ignorant owners, and bad information.



Oldestyle said:


> Ethanol is terrible on things like gaskets, Vrenn...it's why boaters don't run it in their engines.  The more ethanol you put into gas...the more damage it's going to do to your engine.



Bullshit.


----------



## Vrenn

Jarlaxle said:


> Shoddy parts, ignorant owners, and bad information.
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.



I have oldstipper on ignore but it's funny, us Drag Racers rate fuels in this order from good to bad.

85 octane
87 octane
91 octane
93 octane
85 blend
100
110
140

When we rate prices, we rate them 

85 octane
87 octane
85 blend
91 octane
93 octane
100
110
140

For those that want to use 100 and up, it's not sold at the pumps.  It's sold at the speed shops by the gallon containers and costs a bundle.  All of a sudden, 85 blend doesn't sound too bad afterall.  So when we look for an engine to run for our every day driving, we look for one that can handle the 85 blend.  And then tune it for 87 for cost of operation.  But most of the drag racers do run either 85 blend or 91/93 octane.


----------



## Jarlaxle

Vrenn said:


> I have oldstipper on ignore but it's funny, us Drag Racers rate fuels in this order from good to bad.
> 
> 85 octane
> 87 octane
> 91 octane
> 93 octane
> 85 blend
> 100
> 110
> 140
> 
> When we rate prices, we rate them
> 
> 85 octane
> 87 octane
> 85 blend
> 91 octane
> 93 octane
> 100
> 110
> 140
> 
> For those that want to use 100 and up, it's not sold at the pumps.  It's sold at the speed shops by the gallon containers and costs a bundle.  All of a sudden, 85 blend doesn't sound too bad afterall.  So when we look for an engine to run for our every day driving, we look for one that can handle the 85 blend.  And then tune it for 87 for cost of operation.  But most of the drag racers do run either 85 blend or 91/93 octane.


Are you attempting to make some sort of POINT?


----------



## beagle9

Vrenn said:


> I am just pointing out that you are attempting to use something that you don't know squat about because some Executive told you it was true in order to sell more oil products at higher prices.  Forget about whether Biden supports it or not.  And it's being offered at the pumps as an option where it's YOU that gets the option to buy it or not over another product.  You don't have to press the button.  So it's you that are trying to remove my option to buy it or not.  Sounds to me like your Authoritian way of life is trying to run mine.  Well, Benito, that ship has sailed.


Option to buy or not is bull crap. Your knucklehead in chief along with his minion's decided that they would make the options unaffordable therefore taking away the options to choose one or another. You see, this is how you Democrat's operate, where as you try to speak about things in a dishonest way, but the people are on to the bull crap by now, so good luck trying to keep your party in power into the future.


----------



## beagle9

Vrenn said:


> Then I suggest you fire your engine builder.  Or buy better gaskets.  Just like Unleaded burns up valve stems.  Buy Sodium filled Valve Stem Valves.  10 and 15% isn't enough to harm a damned thing.  Now go for what the Alchy Boys do in the Alcohol Drags of 50% or better and then I would believe you.  They go through gaskets (mainly head gaskets and every other top end gasket) about every other run unless they change them out which they do.  But E85 doesn't have enough juice in it to eat gaskets unless that gasket was going to go anyway.  You are listening to the Oil Companies crying in their beer again.  Oh, that's right, that's alcohol, isn't it.


The problem of e-85 drawing moisture into the system, and corroding gas hose line's, and gumming up fuel systems is a very damaging thing, so go blow that smoke somewhere else. I'm a mechanic and an old race car builder just so you know, and I know these things due to the results I've run into with these product's.

Small engine's are hit the worst, but cars and trucks suffer as well if not maintained correctly or sit to long between usage. Looking out for the masses is what government is supposed to do, and it is not supposed to be picking winner's and loser's based upon leftist agenda's that are unproven for the long term when it comes to what the average citizen can afford or maintain without it being highly complicated. That's what is called looking out for the general welfare of the people in which the government has seemingly abandoned for political reasons.


----------



## beagle9

Vrenn said:


> You claimed 4.  There are only 2 and they are operating at 18% capacity and soon to be shut down.


You best hope that all this shutting down doesn't come back to haunt this Nation big time, where as the process of changing from certain methods of production to other's should be slow and very methodical (phased in), because our national security, and our citizen security in retaining viable resources to be productive at sustaining strong foundational families and their well being is all tied to this stuff big time.


----------



## Vrenn

beagle9 said:


> Option to buy or not is bull crap. Your knucklehead in chief along with his minion's decided that they would make the options unaffordable therefore taking away the options to choose one or another. You see, this is how you Democrat's operate, where as you try to speak about things in a dishonest way, but the people are on to the bull crap by now, so good luck trying to keep your party in power into the future.



I guess Biden or his Minions will be waiting for  you to gas up and hold your head below the gas pump forcing you to press the 85 button.  Wow, what a fear you have going there.  I'll still be pushing the 87 one because it works just fine for day to day operation and is cheaper.  But you will have to fend off those nasty Biden Nasties that will be forcing you to push the 85 button.  It must really suck to be you.


----------



## Vrenn

beagle9 said:


> You best hope that all this shutting down doesn't come back to haunt this Nation big time, where as the process of changing from certain methods of production to other's should be slow and very methodical (phased in), because our national security, and our citizen security in retaining viable resources to be productive at sustaining strong foundational families and their well being is all tied to this stuff big time.



I see the changing of the 85 blend part of the year just like I see the changing of the clocks.  I really don't see a point here.  Offer it year round and let ME make the determination if I want to buy it or not.  Simple as that.  And I wished the hate baters and scare tactics would just STFU like they are going to force me one way or another.


----------



## beagle9

Vrenn said:


> I guess Biden or his Minions will be waiting for  you to gas up and hold your head below the gas pump forcing you to press the 85 button.  Wow, what a fear you have going there.  I'll still be pushing the 87 one because it works just fine for day to day operation and is cheaper.  But you will have to fend off those nasty Biden Nasties that will be forcing you to push the 85 button.  It must really suck to be you.


Not literally forcing ones hand to push a button, but rather forcing it through pricing that eliminate the option therefore it forcing citizen's to comply with the more cheaper product even at the expense of damaging or shortening the life of one's vehicle all because of.


Vrenn said:


> I see the changing of the 85 blend part of the year just like I see the changing of the clocks.  I really don't see a point here.  Offer it year round and let ME make the determination if I want to buy it or not.  Simple as that.  And I wished the hate baters and scare tactics would just STFU like they are going to force me one way or another.


Well no one is forcing or is going to force you into doing anything you don't want, but it would be nice if the Democrat's were thinking the same way on the issue's. Sadly they aren't, and instead they are doubling down on isolating and making large section's of this country into their sworn enemies.

The people are supposed to decide the issue's that are to be represented in Washington, but the Democrat's are attempting to rule as dictator's because they are so unpopular that it's truly pathetic.

No one has a problem with modernization or change, but what the Democrat's have been doing is almost if not actually criminal in a lot of ways.


----------



## Vrenn

beagle9 said:


> Not literally forcing ones hand to push a button, but rather forcing it through pricing that eliminate the option therefore it forcing citizen's to comply with the more cheaper product even at the expense of damaging or shortening the life of one's vehicle all because of.



85 and 87 octane is cheaper than 85 blend alchy.  That means that all 3 are available and MOST people will choose the 87 option like I do for normal day to day driving.  It's cheaper at the pump than E85 and all but one of my cars is tuned to it.  Meanwhile, I keep one tuned to E85 which gets a boost of power from it above 91/93 octane at the strip.  No harm comes to that engine running E85.  You want to run cheap parts, go ahead.


BTW, there are many Fords that run E85 as Flex Vehicles that automatically retune if you put in E85 fuel.  Doesn't seem to bother them at all or change their fuel mileage at all.  




beagle9 said:


> Well no one is forcing or is going to force you into doing anything you don't want, but it would be nice if the Democrat's were thinking the same way on the issue's. Sadly they aren't, and instead they are doubling down on isolating and making large section's of this country into their sworn enemies.



And exactly how are they forcing you to press the E85 button instead of the 87 octane button?  Do they find out when just you are going to fuel up and send out a special hit squad to force you?  Is that just for Rumpsters?  I'm jealous.




beagle9 said:


> The people are supposed to decide the issue's that are to be represented in Washington, but the Democrat's are attempting to rule as dictator's because they are so unpopular that it's truly pathetic.
> 
> No one has a problem with modernization or change, but what the Democrat's have been doing is almost if not actually criminal in a lot of ways.



Wah Wah Wah.


----------



## beagle9

Vrenn said:


> 85 and 87 octane is cheaper than 85 blend alchy.  That means that all 3 are available and MOST people will choose the 87 option like I do for normal day to day driving.  It's cheaper at the pump than E85 and all but one of my cars is tuned to it.  Meanwhile, I keep one tuned to E85 which gets a boost of power from it above 91/93 octane at the strip.  No harm comes to that engine running E85.  You want to run cheap parts, go ahead.
> 
> 
> BTW, there are many Fords that run E85 as Flex Vehicles that automatically retune if you put in E85 fuel.  Doesn't seem to bother them at all or change their fuel mileage at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And exactly how are they forcing you to press the E85 button instead of the 87 octane button?  Do they find out when just you are going to fuel up and send out a special hit squad to force you?  Is that just for Rumpsters?  I'm jealous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wah Wah Wah.


Again, no one is physically going to step out from behind the curtain to say push that button, but the cable's that the operator is pulling on behind the scenes, otherwise that keeps the city of OZ doing exactly what it wants it too, can't be avoided when it dictates what you or me end up with in our pockets at the end of the day. Soon your ability to carry and use certain currency's will be no more, and if your ESG score is bad, then you will be forced to park your drag car, and you will be forced to push that button in which they will tell you too, so then what ??

Y'all best quit falling into their traps, because soon it's going to be too late for you to go back.. It'll be the worst "I told you so" that you can imagine.


----------



## Vrenn

beagle9 said:


> Again, no one is physically going to step out from behind the curtain to say push that button, but the cable's that the operator is pulling on behind the scenes, otherwise that keeps the city of OZ doing exactly what it wants it too, can't be avoided when it dictates what you or me end up with in our pockets at the end of the day. Soon your ability to carry and use certain currency's will be no more, and if your ESG score is bad, then you will be forced to park your drag car, and you will be forced to push that button in which they will tell you too, so then what ??
> 
> Y'all best quit falling into their traps, because soon it's going to be too late for you to go back.. It'll be the worst "I told you so" that you can imagine.



What I hear from you is, "Fear, Hate, Fear, Hate".  Nothing else.  If you don't want to have to make that choice, open your own gas station where you only carry what you want to carry.


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## Imnukingfutz

Vrenn said:


> Okay, I run a Hemi with mods.  That means that I have more than a 1 to one HP to CID already.  I usually run on 87 octane due to cost but can easily go to 91 or 93.  But if I do get serious and don't have deep pocket books, I will switch to E85 and have to do a serious retune.  If I go to a 100 octane I would also do a serious retune but a different one.
> 
> When you start running high power outputs, you engine starts getting hot, real hot including the intake, heads, valves and cylinders.  The cooler you can run them the more power you can force out of them.  It is especially true on boosted engines of both supercharged and turbocharged engines.  They have a tendency to have hot and cool spots during detonation  in the combustion chambers.  E85 limits those cold spots.   and limits the hot spots in the other components.  Yes, 100 and 110 octane can exceed the power of E85 but they use brute force to do it.  You would better to run E85 than the higher octane ratings because the higher octane ratings would have extreme hot and cold differences and cost as hell of a lot more.
> 
> There are some serious motorheads that run E85 year round and have the tuning to do it.  The big reason that they E85 has the bad rap is not because it's bad, it's because the oil companies want to you to believe it and they are quite affective.  Yes, there might be as MPG difference or two but the power levels of a properly tuned E85 is actually slightly better than a 87 octane and it costs less.  Today, most engines are high compression high HP to CID output so E85 works pretty well.  But so does 87 octane.  But when I put my foot in it, the E85 shows it stuff more and with either, the gas mileage goes out the window at that point.  In the Hemi World, it's called "Putting a big smile on my face".


like you said, to run E85, you have to do a serious retune. 
How does your car run on E85 with the normal tune? Like poop and more awful mileage than normal. I run a modified Wrangler and understand tunes. Not everyone has the ability, the means or the willingness to retune their vehicle every time the fuel blends change. 
E85 is less efficient and produces less power in NON-retuned vehicles (which is almost every vehicle on the road)


----------



## Imnukingfutz

Vrenn said:


> That's because the Oil Companies already have the permits to do that.  In fact, they have a gluttony of permits they aren't using already.  Here in Colorado, we have oil wells capped off that have oil that could be producing with the turn of a crank.  But you can't ship more oil than the refineries can handle.  And you can't refine more oil than the storage facilities and the transports can handle.  The truth to the matter is, the oil companies are all making record profits even by selling less gas products.  Why would they be producing more when they would be cutting their own throats?
> 
> And why would the Admin be issuing more permits into sensitive areas when the ones already issued are not being used?


Besides the administration cancelling the majority of those leases? 
Lets see  - 
January 27, 2021 Biden Administration halts all new oil and gas leases
May 7, 2021 Biden Administration removes 30% of Federal lands off limits to gas and oil
June 1, 2021 Biden Administration halts all drilling in ANWAR (the land President Carter put aside specifically for oil drilling)
June 30, 2021 Congress reverses Trump era NG regulations (making it harder and more expensive to produce NG)
October 7, 2021 Biden Administration Reverses Trump era NEPA regulations (making it harder and more expensive to produce NG and oil)
October 29, 2021 Dept. of the Interior begins including "Social Cost and Impact of Carbon" in its permit approval process. 
November 15, 2021 Moratorium on oil drilling in Chaco Canyon (nice way of saying they're stopping oil production for no other reason than they want to)
March 21, 2022 SEC starts anti-oil rule (look it up)
May 12, 2022 Biden cancels remaining lease sales

While a few leases remain active, they still do not mean that oil is there waiting to be pumped out the ground. 
The oil companies have to get the land lease not knowing if there is oil there.
They then need a permit to do explorations for oil, permits are being slow walked through. 
Then, IF there is oil, they have to apply for a permit to do a feasibility survey, to see how much is there and if it is worth it...cost vs whats there.
Then there has to be environmental impact studies done. Its estimated to be a 2 to 3 year process during the best of situations, this admin is not the best of situations.


----------



## Vrenn

Imnukingfutz said:


> like you said, to run E85, you have to do a serious retune.
> How does your car run on E85 with the normal tune? Like poop and more awful mileage than normal. I run a modified Wrangler and understand tunes. Not everyone has the ability, the means or the willingness to retune their vehicle every time the fuel blends change.
> E85 is less efficient and produces less power in NON-retuned vehicles (which is almost every vehicle on the road)



It has more to do with compression ratio.  The lower compression ratio cars (7.5 to 8.5 to 1) shouldn't run it.  To unlock the extra oxygen that E85 contains needs either a high compression ratio or boost of some kind like Turbo or Super.  Turbo and Super increase the compression ratio.  I run 10.5 to 1 and could run e85 year round but truthfully, with stock tuning, there isn't much of a difference between the performance of 87 octane and E85 except 87 gets better fuel mileage.  That is, until I slap the tuner in and then the E85 gets the power and I can use less throttle on E85 than 87 octane.  And when I need more power, the E85 is king.  

But if I were to use 100 or 110 octane I could get the same performance out of them as the E85 but at almost 10 bucks a gallon or more (they come in 1 gallon containers) I will stick with E85 when I need power.  One of the old tricks was to mix Sunnoco 100 (leaded) with Avgas 140.  Now, try that on most engines and you get to shake hands with the heads.  All of a sudden the Alchy mix is better.  But that's for motorheads.

Now, since we are talking about Dodge/Jeeps, the Hemis are not tuned for flex fuel.  If you run E85 in the Hemi, you are going to get a lean error code.  The O2 sensors can't adjust that far.  But the 6 cyls can and are rated at flex (either or) whether it states it or not.  

Fords are all Flex Fuel.  That only means that the sensors are wide enough to adjust to the leaner e85 fuel.

I don't know about GM.

Running E85 will NOT damage  your engine anymore than 85 octane will.  What it will do is clean your tank, fuel filter, fuel pump and fuel line pretty good.  If you allow them to go completely empty, they can rust but modern cars keeps a bit of pressure on them at all times so no harm can be done.


----------



## Vrenn

Imnukingfutz said:


> Besides the administration cancelling the majority of those leases?



Stop lying.  The leases already released are honored.  




Imnukingfutz said:


> Lets see  -
> January 27, 2021 Biden Administration halts all new oil and gas leases
> May 7, 2021 Biden Administration removes 30% of Federal lands off limits to gas and oil
> June 1, 2021 Biden Administration halts all drilling in ANWAR (the land President Carter put aside specifically for oil drilling)
> June 30, 2021 Congress reverses Trump era NG regulations (making it harder and more expensive to produce NG)
> October 7, 2021 Biden Administration Reverses Trump era NEPA regulations (making it harder and more expensive to produce NG and oil)
> October 29, 2021 Dept. of the Interior begins including "Social Cost and Impact of Carbon" in its permit approval process.
> November 15, 2021 Moratorium on oil drilling in Chaco Canyon (nice way of saying they're stopping oil production for no other reason than they want to)
> March 21, 2022 SEC starts anti-oil rule (look it up)


In this section you are correct.  Just your motives are haywire.




Imnukingfutz said:


> May 12, 2022 Biden cancels remaining lease sales



Stop lying.  




Imnukingfutz said:


> While a few leases remain active, they still do not mean that oil is there waiting to be pumped out the ground.



Wait, you said all of these were cancelled.  you really need to get your lie straight.





Imnukingfutz said:


> The oil companies have to get the land lease not knowing if there is oil there.
> They then need a permit to do explorations for oil, permits are being slow walked through.
> Then, IF there is oil, they have to apply for a permit to do a feasibility survey, to see how much is there and if it is worth it...cost vs whats there.
> Then there has to be environmental impact studies done. Its estimated to be a 2 to 3 year process during the best of situations, this admin is not the best of situations.



You can stop lying now.l


----------



## beagle9

Vrenn said:


> It has more to do with compression ratio.  The lower compression ratio cars (7.5 to 8.5 to 1) shouldn't run it.  To unlock the extra oxygen that E85 contains needs either a high compression ratio or boost of some kind like Turbo or Super.  Turbo and Super increase the compression ratio.  I run 10.5 to 1 and could run e85 year round but truthfully, with stock tuning, there isn't much of a difference between the performance of 87 octane and E85 except 87 gets better fuel mileage.  That is, until I slap the tuner in and then the E85 gets the power and I can use less throttle on E85 than 87 octane.  And when I need more power, the E85 is king.
> 
> But if I were to use 100 or 110 octane I could get the same performance out of them as the E85 but at almost 10 bucks a gallon or more (they come in 1 gallon containers) I will stick with E85 when I need power.  One of the old tricks was to mix Sunnoco 100 (leaded) with Avgas 140.  Now, try that on most engines and you get to shake hands with the heads.  All of a sudden the Alchy mix is better.  But that's for motorheads.
> 
> Now, since we are talking about Dodge/Jeeps, the Hemis are not tuned for flex fuel.  If you run E85 in the Hemi, you are going to get a lean error code.  The O2 sensors can't adjust that far.  But the 6 cyls can and are rated at flex (either or) whether it states it or not.
> 
> Fords are all Flex Fuel.  That only means that the sensors are wide enough to adjust to the leaner e85 fuel.
> 
> I don't know about GM.
> 
> Running E85 will NOT damage  your engine anymore than 85 octane will.  What it will do is clean your tank, fuel filter, fuel pump and fuel line pretty good.  If you allow them to go completely empty, they can rust but modern cars keeps a bit of pressure on them at all times so no harm can be done.


Imnukingfutz is spot on when he speaks of the masses, and what they depend on in their world's... You on the other hand care only about you, and you boast of your knowledge that would allow you to escape a lot of what the masses won't, otherwise if stupidity is allowed to win the day. Your arrogance could be what's allowed stupidity to win the day, and you should hang your head in shame.


----------



## Vrenn

beagle9 said:


> Imnukingfutz is spot on when he speaks of the masses, and what they depend on in their world's... You on the other hand care only about you, and you boast of your knowledge that would allow you to escape a lot of what the masses won't, otherwise if stupidity is allowed to win the day. Your arrogance could be what's allowed stupidity to win the day, and you should hang your head in shame.



What you are saying is, I am not supposed to think for myself.  I am supposed to think the way you say I should.  Sounds about right.  And if I don't then at some point you will threaten a Civil War or something along those lines.  And that is more the reason to stay on the other side where I am free to think the way I wish to think regardless of what that is.


----------



## beagle9

Vrenn said:


> What you are saying is, I am not supposed to think for myself.  I am supposed to think the way you say I should.  Sounds about right.  And if I don't then at some point you will threaten a Civil War or something along those lines.  And that is more the reason to stay on the other side where I am free to think the way I wish to think regardless of what that is.


Quit trying to figure out what I'm saying, because it appears that you are lost big time.. lol 

Your emotional bull crap diatribe is laughable. Leftist speak is always so typical, because it's always trying to put word's into someone's mouth in order to fight with the fictional characters they create.


----------



## Vrenn

beagle9 said:


> Quit trying to figure out what I'm saying, because it appears that you are lost big time.. lol
> 
> Your emotional bull crap diatribe is laughable. Leftist speak is always so typical, because it's always trying to put word's into someone's mouth in order to fight with the fictional characters they create.



Then I suggest you start making sense.


----------



## Imnukingfutz

Vrenn said:


> Stop lying.  The leases already released are honored.
> 
> 
> 
> In this section you are correct.  Just your motives are haywire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop lying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, you said all of these were cancelled.  you really need to get your lie straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can stop lying now.l


They're all verifiable facts. Sorry you cant handle facts. Not my fault, not my problem.


----------



## Vrenn

Imnukingfutz said:


> They're all verifiable facts. Sorry you cant handle facts. Not my fault, not my problem.



Verified by whom or what, by Pawxsnews or QAnon?  How about the Confederate Daughters?  Or the KKK.


----------



## beagle9

Vrenn said:


> Verified by whom or what, by Pawxsnews or QAnon?  How about the Confederate Daughters?  Or the KKK.


When in doubt or confused, just play or throw the damned race card... Soon that card will be null and void, and the account will be overcharged and badly void of currency (BLM got it all), now what cha gonna do ? lol


----------



## Vrenn

beagle9 said:


> When in doubt or confused, just play or throw the damned race card... Soon that card will be null and void, and the account will be overcharged and badly void of currency (BLM got it all), now what cha gonna do ? lol



You see race in every response you make.  I just point out that the origin of your "Facts" are more than a little questionable.


----------



## beagle9

Vrenn said:


> You see race in every response you make.  I just point out that the origin of your "Facts" are more than a little questionable.


Oh so you pulled the race card, and I'm the one that noticed it, so that's my bad eh ? ROTFLMBO..


----------



## Vrenn

beagle9 said:


> Oh so you pulled the race card, and I'm the one that noticed it, so that's my bad eh ? ROTFLMBO..



Do you mean if you use Pawssnews as a cite then they are using the race card?  If you use QAnon they too are using the race card.    You brought up the race card.  I've pretty much had the race card bred out of me.  You see, I owe my life to a few of the ones you look down on and a few of them owe their lives to me.  We didn't start out as equals but we ended up that way when the first rounds began to fly.  But you bigots will never understand that.  So you go ahead and play your race baiting but in the end I know who and what you are.


----------



## beagle9

Vrenn said:


> Do you mean if you use Pawssnews as a cite then they are using the race card?  If you use QAnon they too are using the race card.    You brought up the race card.  I've pretty much had the race card bred out of me.  You see, I owe my life to a few of the ones you look down on and a few of them owe their lives to me.  We didn't start out as equals but we ended up that way when the first rounds began to fly.  But you bigots will never understand that.  So you go ahead and play your race baiting but in the end I know who and what you are.


A race baiter racist attempting to flip the playbook, Biden is that you ??? LOL.


----------



## Vrenn

beagle9 said:


> A race baiter racist attempting to flip the playbook, Biden is that you ??? LOL.



Have a nice life, bigot.


----------



## Imnukingfutz

Vrenn said:


> Verified by whom or what, by Pawxsnews or QAnon?  How about the Confederate Daughters?  Or the KKK.


Oh, you are one of those...Im so sorry, at least now there is help for people with your condition.


----------



## KissMy

"Biofuels producers employ more veterans than any sector in energy industry"


----------



## beagle9

KissMy said:


> "Biofuels producers employ more veterans than any sector in energy industry"


Who cares, that don't help our motors out when they are destroyed by these games the scamming rich (the one's guilty) are scamming us with. American's having to take less so that the greedy rich (the one's guilty), can scam us, and then make us all the poor pitiful fool's that we've all finally been reduced to... It really says it all.


----------

