# US submarine hits underwater object in South China Sea



## shockedcanadian (Oct 7, 2021)

The vast population of citizens on this planet desire peace.  NO citizen should wish that aggressive nations are left unconfronted when they threaten the lives and safety of others.  If good men do not stand up, all of civilized humanity pays a price.

I have the utmost appreciation for those deployed on a submarine.  They maintain peace and stability in what is potentially the most hostile (and uncomfortable) of environments.









						US submarine hits underwater object in South China Sea
					

A US nuclear powered submarine struck an object underwater in the South China Sea on Saturday, according to two defense officials.




					www.cnn.com
				




 (CNN)A US nuclear powered submarine struck an object underwater in the South China Sea on Saturday, according to two defense officials.
A number of sailors on board the USS Connecticut were injured in the accident, the officials said. None of the injuries were life-threatening, according to a statement from US Pacific Fleet. It's unclear what the Seawolf-class submarine may have hit while it was submerged.
"The submarine remains in a safe and stable condition. USS Connecticut's nuclear propulsion plant and spaces were not affected and remain fully operational," the statement said. "The incident will be investigated." The US Navy did not specify the incident took place in the South China Sea, only that it occurred in international waters in the Indo-Pacific region.
The accident happened as tensions between the US and China soared over the Chinese military's incursions into Taiwan's Air Defense Integration Zone (ADIZ).


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## Calypso Jones (Oct 7, 2021)

Photos?


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## Gabe Lackmann (Oct 7, 2021)

Probably bullshit. Something that it will need to go into dry dock for me thinks. That is the only reason we are hearing anything about it "striking something."

If bullshit were gold coins...


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## Scottish_Brexiteer_UK (Oct 7, 2021)

What sort of thing do they suspect it's hit?

There's no real reason for a submarine, with it's technology, sonar, radars etc to hit anything other than a sleeping fish.

I think the captain has fucked up or their equipment failed and they're covering it up.


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## MisterBeale (Oct 7, 2021)

Scottish_Brexiteer_UK said:


> What sort of thing do they suspect it's hit?
> 
> There's no real reason for a submarine, with it's technology, sonar, radars etc to hit anything other than a sleeping fish.
> 
> I think the captain has fucked up or their equipment failed and they're covering it up.


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## Dekster (Oct 7, 2021)

Gabe Lackmann said:


> Probably bullshit. Something that it will need to go into dry dock for me thinks. That is the only reason we are hearing anything about it "striking something."
> 
> If bullshit were gold coins...



Or it didn't happen where they say it did.....


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

It's not BS, it is true. A US Navy submarine crashed into an unknown object underneath the water. Causing damage and injuries.

That's the truth.

What could have it crashed into to cause such damage and injuries?

That's the question.


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

Skeptics are already out, saying it didn't happen. It did. The question is what it was? 

Just like the UFO videos acknowledged by the Navy and the Pentagon. What is it?


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

Personally, I think it crashed into something it couldn't detect. That's pretty rational. 

What that was, I can only speculate.


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## RetiredGySgt (Oct 9, 2021)

Waiting for the Chinese to announce they lost a sub.


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

Maybe it was a Chinese Stealth Mine... I just made that up


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Waiting for the Chinese to announce they lost a sub.


same thing same time


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

I can see the Chinese developing stealth technology underwater to protect the islands they are building. 

But they also face the same problem of crashing into them. Unless they can detect them. 

Either way, they're above our technology right now. We are a weak 2nd, if not 3rd. Bye Bye US superiority. 

We have shit we can't explain buzzing our airspace, messing with our nuclear facilities, and posing a major threat to our national security and forces, and we can't explain it... 

Is it really the Chinese?


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

Maybe it is, and we're THAT FAR BEHIND....


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 9, 2021)

Scottish_Brexiteer_UK said:


> What sort of thing do they suspect it's hit?
> 
> There's no real reason for a submarine, with it's technology, sonar, radars etc to hit anything other than a sleeping fish.
> 
> I think the captain has fucked up or their equipment failed and they're covering it up.


Sonar used while submerged is passive because active tells everyone in the ocean where you are!  Radar does not work underwater.

Speaking of sleeping fish, my submarine hit a whale!


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 9, 2021)

Freedom Crows Nest said:


> It's not BS, it is true. A US Navy submarine crashed into an unknown object underneath the water. Causing damage and injuries.
> 
> That's the truth.
> 
> ...


Several years ago, a submarine ran full speed into an uncharted undersea mountain.


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

Yes, but that resulted in many injures among all on board. And that's not what happened here. It was a localized crash.

Let's wait to find out what happened, before you start debunking.


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## Scottish_Brexiteer_UK (Oct 9, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Sonar used while submerged is passive because active tells everyone in the ocean where you are!  Radar does not work underwater.
> 
> Speaking of sleeping fish, my submarine hit a whale!


these submarines sound like they arent worth a shit


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

I'm not saying it's extra-terrestrials... 

But it's aliens! 

Let me tell you what... every meme that has Giorgio, saying it's not aliens... cannot be accessed at the moment. This is going viral! 

Google "I'm not saying it's aliens", and try yourself! Click images, and try to see if anyone of those images happen.  LOL, this is hysterical.


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## frigidweirdo (Oct 9, 2021)

shockedcanadian said:


> The vast population of citizens on this planet desire peace.  NO citizen should wish that aggressive nations are left unconfronted when they threaten the lives and safety of others.  If good men do not stand up, all of civilized humanity pays a price.
> 
> I have the utmost appreciation for those deployed on a submarine.  They maintain peace and stability in what is potentially the most hostile (and uncomfortable) of environments.
> 
> ...



Oh, they maintain peace huh? Why is it when the US invades, bombs, interferes it's in the name of "peace", when others do it they're "aggressive"?

The US is as bad as China. China claims it flies planes over Taiwan due to "provocation", literally Taiwan being there is "provocation".


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

This is what is known as an USO. Unidentified Submerged Object. 

They are almost as common as UFO's, or UAP's as they're now called, with many credible reports. 

Did our submarine crash into one? They won't tell us, but they didn't hit a fish or a whale.


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> Oh, they maintain peace huh? Why is it when the US invades, bombs, interferes it's in the name of "peace", when others do it they're "aggressive"?
> 
> The US is as bad as China. China claims it flies planes over Taiwan due to "provocation", literally Taiwan being there is "provocation".


True, but what does this have to do with a US submarine crashing into an unknown object in the middle of the water?


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## frigidweirdo (Oct 9, 2021)

Freedom Crows Nest said:


> True, but what does this have to do with a US submarine crashing into an unknown object in the middle of the water?



Well, it has to do with the claim of the OP that the submarine was in what China sees as its waters, what everyone else sees as international waters, close to China, and far from the US, and supposedly this is "keeping the peace".


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## AZrailwhale (Oct 9, 2021)

Scottish_Brexiteer_UK said:


> What sort of thing do they suspect it's hit?
> 
> There's no real reason for a submarine, with it's technology, sonar, radars etc to hit anything other than a sleeping fish.
> 
> I think the captain has fucked up or their equipment failed and they're covering it up.


This isn’t WWII.  Modern subs don’t use active sonar.  They are holes in the water when it comes to emitting noise.  Everything they use is passive and can’t detect anything that isn’t radiating noise or electronic waves.  That being said they probably hit a Chinese diesel sub.  Either by accident, or by playing chicken.  The US and USSR used to play those games all the time during the Cold War.


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

I got it to work!


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

it worked!


frigidweirdo said:


> Well, it has to do with the claim of the OP that the submarine was in what China sees as its waters, what everyone else sees as international waters, close to China, and far from the US, and supposedly this is "keeping the peace".



How does that explain the mysterious crash? Or are you diverting attention?


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## frigidweirdo (Oct 9, 2021)

Freedom Crows Nest said:


> it worked!
> 
> 
> How does that explain the mysterious crash? Or are you diverting attention?



Well, nothing we have explains the "mysterious crash". The US Navy doesn't seem to know, and it was their sub. So how are we supposed to know?

All we know is that people are using this for nationalistic purposes.


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)




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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

More leaked Navy footage of a USO, that went underwater. This stuff is all confirmed by the Navy and the Pentagon.

They don't know what they are, and they have unlimited access to our airspace and perform maneuvers that are physically impossible based on modern knowledge.. And they confirmed they pose a threat to national security. 

It could be Chinese or Russian, but that's scary because it means they leap-frogged us by generations. 

I doubt the USA would admit that. So it's probably not terrestrial.


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## RetiredGySgt (Oct 9, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> Well, nothing we have explains the "mysterious crash". The US Navy doesn't seem to know, and it was their sub. So how are we supposed to know?
> 
> All we know is that people are using this for nationalistic purposes.


go peddle your unamerican views somewhere else.


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

Now, the sub could have hit a submerged Chinese stealth mine. That's definitely possible, if not probable. But the USO possibility is going to get huge online...


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Oct 9, 2021)




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## CrusaderFrank (Oct 9, 2021)

All we know for certain is that our government never lies to us or covers anything up


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 9, 2021)

Scottish_Brexiteer_UK said:


> these submarines sound like they arent worth a shit



That's perhaps because you are stupid on this topic?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 9, 2021)

Freedom Crows Nest said:


> Now, the sub could have hit a submerged Chinese stealth mine. That's definitely possible, if not probable. But the USO possibility is going to get huge online...


That's because your average person online has the IQ of a watermelon.

WTF is a stealth mine?  A submarine cannot detect any mines unless they are making noise.  Since you have no idea what the depth was, what was used to anchor this so-called stealth mine you have created?


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## Scottish_Brexiteer_UK (Oct 9, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> That's perhaps because you are stupid on this topic?


I'm sorry my extensive knowledge of modern submarine technology isn't up to standard - but I still know stupid when I see it.


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## Otis Mayfield (Oct 9, 2021)

Freedom Crows Nest said:


> I can see the Chinese developing stealth technology underwater to protect the islands they are building.
> 
> But they also face the same problem of crashing into them. Unless they can detect them.
> 
> ...



What did trump do to fix these problems?

What is Joe doing differently than trump?


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## ESay (Oct 9, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> The US is as bad as China. China claims it flies planes over Taiwan due to "provocation", literally Taiwan being there is "provocation


Why is Taiwan provocation? Their government has the same right to existence as China's one.


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## frigidweirdo (Oct 9, 2021)

ESay said:


> Why is Taiwan provocation? Their government has the same right to existence as China's one.



Ask the CCP.


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## Death Angel (Oct 9, 2021)

Freedom Crows Nest said:


> It's not BS, it is true. A US Navy submarine crashed into an unknown object underneath the water. Causing damage and injuries.
> 
> That's the truth.
> 
> ...


Do you have a source OTHER THAN CNN?  I mean, CNN


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## Death Angel (Oct 9, 2021)

ESay said:


> Why is Taiwan provocation? Their government has the same right to existence as China's one.


China's government isn't elected by 5he people. They really don't have a right to exist


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## skye (Oct 9, 2021)

Submarine operating in the South China Sea,  close to the bottom? possible on a surveillance mission?

Yes I was reading about it, and yes something happened.....what was it? who knows... hit another submarine? unlikely...Navy Officials are saying ( not like we believe them) that the submarine hit a sunken ship...a shipping container....something of the sort....

The collision with the "unknown" objet must have been big because several crew members were injured.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 9, 2021)

Scottish_Brexiteer_UK said:


> I'm sorry my extensive knowledge of modern submarine technology isn't up to standard - but I still know stupid when I see it.


OK, jackass!  What is stupid since you cannot seem to spell it out?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 9, 2021)

skye said:


> Submarine operating in the South China Sea,  close to the bottom? possible on a surveillance mission?
> 
> Yes I was reading about it, and yes something happened.....what was it? who knows... hit another submarine? unlikely...Navy Officials are saying ( not like we believe them) that the submarine hit a sunken ship...a shipping container....something of the sort....
> 
> The collision with the "unknown" objet must have been big because several crew members were injured.



Ever ridden in a vehicle, standing up, with no seatbelt on, when the driver slams on the brakes or you hit an object?  Do you feel a leisurely tug of momentum to keep you going in the direction you were originally headed?  Of course not!  You go crashing forward at the same speed you had been moving!

A friend of mine who a Navy technical representative (tech rep) came aboard my ship to assist with a bizarre oil leak we were having on the bearings in one of my steam turbines.  When he arrived, I noticed his face was all cut up and scaring that wasn't there before.  He had been on one of our missile hydrofoils down in the Caribbean a few months before.  He was standing in the head (that's a restroom in Navy terms) in front of a mirror when the hydrofoil, traveling about 45 knots, hit a large whale.  My friend was hurled face-first into the mirror and it of course shattered, cutting up his face so badly, he had to be picked up by a helicopter and flown ashore for treatment.  Several other crew members were hurt also.


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## Turtlesoup (Oct 9, 2021)

Freedom Crows Nest said:


> Maybe it was a Chinese Stealth Mine... I just made that up


That could entail a lot of different type minds---A mine made out of plastic?  A mine made out of a magnetic?   A mine put on a dolphin or a drone mine?  We are lucky whatever it was that it didnt explode.


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## skye (Oct 9, 2021)

Not a fan of Communist China but they  certainly have the right to know if was there leak of nuclear material.


China demands information on whether US submarine collision ‘caused a nuclear leak’​








						China demands information on whether US submarine collision ‘caused a nuclear leak’
					

Chinese officials demanded extensive “details” about a collision involving a U.S. nuclear submarine in the South China Sea, which Beijing cited to continue arguing against American military operations in a region that the rising communist power seeks to dominate.




					news.yahoo.com


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## HenryBHough (Oct 9, 2021)

Let us hope it squashed the sub carrying Xiden's shipment of Covid 22


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 9, 2021)

skye said:


> *Not a fan of Communist China but they  certainly have the right to know if was there leak of nuclear material.*
> 
> 
> China demands information on whether US submarine collision ‘caused a nuclear leak’​
> ...


You might want to rephrase that sentence.

Why do they have any right to know, despite the fact it was already reported that the nuclear reactor was not affected?


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## skye (Oct 9, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> You might want to rephrase that sentence.
> 
> Why do they have any right to know, despite the fact it was already reported that the nuclear reactor was not affected?



Stop quoting me please. Thanks.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 9, 2021)

skye said:


> Stop quoting me please. Thanks.


Sorry, no dice, sweetheart!


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> That's because your average person online has the IQ of a watermelon.
> 
> WTF is a stealth mine?  A submarine cannot detect any mines unless they are making noise.  Since you have no idea what the depth was, what was used to anchor this so-called stealth mine you have created?


That's an insult to watermelons...

I don't know what a stealth mine is, i told you i made it up, but being skeptical, it would be an object that is not detectable by sonar, held in place with an anchor of some sort. Like a stealth plane having a very low profile on radar. I'm trying to think of a terrestrial explanation for a high tech submarine crashing into an object in mid-water, to cause localized damage. Excuse me for being skeptical.

So I made up the idea of a stealth mine, or stealth "object". Seems like something really genius to make, if possible.

But it could be ET's... There may be a sunken USO, and there will be a frenzy to recover. Or the USO, more likely, is intact, and there's nothing to recover.

The question is, wtf did they crash into? We will probably never know...


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

Death Angel said:


> Do you have a source OTHER THAN CNN?  I mean, CNN


Check anywhere, idiot.


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## skye (Oct 9, 2021)

It appears that the submarine was hit very hard. This apparently means that either an object or the submarine was moving fast. And the other side is the fact that submarines are very silent and operate in stealth mode....

"So it's not entirely impossible that the unknown object was another submarine," a defence expert deems.

So - after all- was it another submarine that was hit? who knows! 


Two sailors had moderate injuries....whatever that is....and nine others have minor injuries, officials said.








						Navy: Sub hit object in Pacific; no life-threatening injury
					

WASHINGTON (AP) — A U.S. Navy attack submarine struck an object while submerged in international waters in the South China Sea, officials said Thursday. They said there were no life-threatening injuries and the sub was still fully operational.




					apnews.com


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## Death Angel (Oct 9, 2021)

Freedom Crows Nest said:


> Check anywhere, idiot.


Everytime I post something, liberals DEMAND I do the work and find THEM "reliable" sources.  I was returning the favor.

PROVIDE ME WITH THE STORY FROM A SOURCE I RESPECT. It's the liberal way, IDIOT.  Besides, was I talking to you, idiot?


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

TY for the update Skye. 

I don't know what submarines in stealth mode are all about, but you would think they should be able to avoid a collision, otherwise there's something wrong with the technology. Or maybe it was a US sub hitting a Chinese sub?


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## AZrailwhale (Oct 9, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> You might want to rephrase that sentence.
> 
> Why do they have any right to know, despite the fact it was already reported that the nuclear reactor was not affected?


They have no right.  The collision was in international waters.


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

Death Angel said:


> Everytime I post something, liberals DEMAND I do the work and find THEM "reliable" sources.  I was returning the favor.
> 
> PROVIDE ME WITH THE STORY FROM A SOURCE I RESPECT. It's the liberal way, IDIOT.  Besides, was I talking to you, idiot?


Yes, you were. You do the google click, ok? Idiot...


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## Death Angel (Oct 9, 2021)

Freedom Crows Nest said:


> Yes, you were. You do the google click, ok? Idiot...


Fuck off moron. You don't have a sense of humor so fuck off

And what's "google" anyway?


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

Death Angel said:


> Fuck off moron. You don't have a sense of humor so fuck off
> 
> And what's "google" anyway?


If you were joking, I maybe get it now. But it wasn't funny the way you posted. So I apologize for reacting to your failed joke. 

Friends now?


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

BC I hear you man, i've been banned a couple of times for failed jokes, that I kept working, and eventually got serious.


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## Death Angel (Oct 9, 2021)

Freedom Crows Nest said:


> I can see the Chinese developing stealth technology underwater to protect the islands they are building.
> 
> But they also face the same problem of crashing into them. Unless they can detect them.
> 
> ...


Oh no! 
The Chinese are using their invisibility shields again!


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 9, 2021)

skye said:


> It appears that the submarine was hit very hard. This apparently means that either an object or the submarine was moving fast. And the other side is the fact that submarines are very silent and operate in stealth mode....
> 
> "So it's not entirely impossible that the unknown object was another submarine," a defence expert deems.
> 
> ...


How about this incident from 2005?

 On *8 January 2005 at 02:43 GMT*, San Francisco collided with an undersea mountain about 364 nautical miles (675 km) southeast of Guam while operating at flank (maximum) speed at a depth of 525 feet (160 m).









						USS San Francisco (SSN-711) - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> How about this incident from 2005?
> 
> On *8 January 2005 at 02:43 GMT*, San Francisco collided with an undersea mountain about 364 nautical miles (675 km) southeast of Guam while operating at flank (maximum) speed at a depth of 525 feet (160 m).
> 
> ...


That was a huge death and injury toll, wasn't it? I mean, that's a mountain.

This was localized damage. It couldn't have been that big, could it?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 9, 2021)

Freedom Crows Nest said:


> That's an insult to watermelons...
> 
> I don't know what a stealth mine is, i told you i made it up, but being skeptical, *it would be an object that is not detectable by sonar, held in place with an anchor of some sort. *Like a stealth plane having a very low profile on radar. *I'm trying to think of a terrestrial explanation for a high tech submarine crashing into an object in mid-water, to cause localized damage.* Excuse me for being skeptical.
> 
> ...



Anchors make noise, detectible by passive sonar. 

Crashes like this happen! 

On 8 January 2005 at 02:43 GMT, _San Francisco_ collided with an undersea mountain about 364 nautical miles (675 km) southeast of Guam while operating at flank (maximum) speed at a depth of 525 feet (160 m)









						USS San Francisco (SSN-711) - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

98 crewmen injured, 2 dead, the sub was rendered inoperable. 

That's not what happened here...


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

it seems like it crashed into an "object" per the reports.

A mountain is not what i would term an object.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 9, 2021)

Freedom Crows Nest said:


> That was a huge death and injury toll, wasn't it? I mean, that's a mountain.
> 
> This was localized damage. It couldn't have been that big, could it?


Huge would be accurate if you consider one crewmember who died the next day due to a head injury.

On a submarine most collisions cause localized damage.

Here is a photo of the damage to USS San Francisco.


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

Maybe it hit a blue whale?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 9, 2021)

Freedom Crows Nest said:


> 98 crewmen injured, 2 dead, the sub was rendered inoperable.
> 
> That's not what happened here...


Where did you get two dead?  I provided a link.


Freedom Crows Nest said:


> it seems like it crashed into an "object" per the reports.
> 
> A mountain is not what i would term an object.


A seamount is an object.


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Huge would be accurate if you consider one crewmember who died the next day due to a head injury.
> 
> On a submarine most collisions cause localized damage.
> 
> ...


Looks like a super magnified pic of Devil's penis after his condom ruptures...


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Where did you get two dead?  I provided a link.
> 
> A seamount is an object.


wikipedia. I guess it is technically an object. We need to learn more about the damage, and the depth the sub was at. Otherwise, it's just crazy conjecture. 

You're right, i read it wrong, just one death


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 9, 2021)

Freedom Crows Nest said:


> TY for the update Skye.
> 
> I don't know what submarines in stealth mode are all about, but you would think they should be able to avoid a collision, *otherwise there's something wrong with the technology.* Or maybe it was a US sub hitting a Chinese sub?


How does a submarine "see" something in the water if it makes no noise?  There is nothing wrong with the technology. I took a sub from Georgia to the Arctic Circle and back in 1980 and we never surfaced for almost 3 months.  We used passive sonar to detect threats, and navigated by by SATNAV and Inertial Navigation Systems.  We were nuclear powered so we made our own air and water.

Which technology was "wrong"?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 9, 2021)

Freedom Crows Nest said:


> wikipedia. I guess it is technically an object. We need to learn more about the damage, and the depth the sub was at. Otherwise, it's just crazy conjecture.
> 
> You're right, i read it wrong, just one death


Thanks for admitting your error.  

What right do you have to know what was damaged and the depth of the submarine which might be Secret?


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Thanks for admitting your error.
> 
> What right do you have to know what was damaged and the depth of the submarine which might be Secret?


I don't have any, do you? That's why I'm saying we need more info. Why would it be secret? 

Regarding ur previous post, there should be some sort of safeguard to prevent a US sub, hitting another US sub. Otherwise it would be chaos in a wartime situation.

Are there any such safeguards? You're the expert, I'm deferring to you. I'm asking questions to try to learn.


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 9, 2021)

Why tell the world that one of subs hit an object, if it's secret? Nobody needs to know.


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## the other mike (Oct 9, 2021)




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## fncceo (Oct 9, 2021)

Scottish_Brexiteer_UK said:


> There's no real reason for a submarine, with it's technology, sonar, radars etc to hit anything other than a sleeping fish.



Radar doesn't work underwater and passive sonar, while very effective, can only detect objects that are emitting noises louder than the ocean around them ... and the ocean is a surprisingly noisy place.

It isn't inconceivable for a submarine to collide with another submarine or ship.


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 10, 2021)

fncceo said:


> Radar doesn't work underwater and passive sonar, while very effective, can only detect objects that are emitting noises louder than the ocean around them ... and the ocean is a surprisingly noisy place.
> 
> It isn't inconceivable for a submarine to collide with another submarine or ship.


I know you from somewhere, kneel...


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 10, 2021)

ring a bell?


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 10, 2021)

It could just be a coincidence. No matter what, nice to meet you!


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 10, 2021)




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## fncceo (Oct 10, 2021)

Freedom Crows Nest said:


> Maybe it hit a blue whale?



Sushi buffet!


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 10, 2021)

Freedom Crows Nest said:


> I don't have any, do you? That's why I'm saying we need more info. Why would it be secret?
> 
> Regarding ur previous post, there should be some sort of safeguard to prevent a US sub, hitting another US sub. Otherwise it would be chaos in a wartime situation.
> 
> Are there any such safeguards? You're the expert, I'm deferring to you. I'm asking questions to try to learn.


The depth would possibly give away information on the submarine' capabilities.  The location could disclose the sub' mission.

Each ship and submarine emits noise, such as the propeller, machinery, and other sources of noise.  On nuclear submarines, the most difficult noises to eliminate are the reactor feed pumps.  Submarines can record this information in a database to identify the types of ships or submarines.

A really good movie on modern submarine warfare is "The Hunt for Red October".  It is a fairly accurate account of how submarines find each other and attack using only passive sonar.  The best position to attack another ship or submarine is from the year in the "baffles" where you can still hear the target, but they are unable to hear you because any noise they create blacks out their sonar to the rear.

Towed array sonars are sensors on a long cable from the rear of a submarine used to long-distance tracking as they as much more sensitive being away from the submarine's noise sources.  Many sub hunting surface ships also have this equipment.

I was an unusual creature in the Navy.  I wore silver dolphins on my uniform as a secondary warfare qualification, with the Surface Warfare officer insignia as my primary.  On my first ship as an officer,  there were 4 out of 7 officers in the engineering department who wore silver dolphins, but I was the only one that was also surface warfare qualified at the time.  I am sure the others got there qualifications after I left the ship.

I would be happy to answer any question you may have.  Unlike most posters on this forum, you seem genuinely curious about the topic.

Have a great day!


----------



## Hang on Sloopy (Oct 10, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> The depth would possibly give away information on the submarine' capabilities.  The location could disclose the sub' mission.
> 
> Each ship and submarine emits noise, such as the propeller, machinery, and other sources of noise.  On nuclear submarines, the most difficult noises to eliminate are the reactor feed pumps.  Submarines can record this information in a database to identify the types of ships or submarines.
> 
> ...


How exactly does nookler power work to run a sub?

How is a sub protected from spewing waste if it got hit by a torpedo?


----------



## ESay (Oct 10, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> Ask the CCP.


Don't want. They are not authority for me.


----------



## frigidweirdo (Oct 10, 2021)

ESay said:


> Don't want. They are not authority for me.



Great conversation. But I need to wash my hair.


----------



## ESay (Oct 11, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> Great conversation. But I need to wash my hair.


Okay. Promise that you will do it thoroughly.


----------



## Leo123 (Oct 11, 2021)

Did they hit something or were they hit with something?  Those subs know what is around them, don't kid yourself.


----------



## Feeding Crows (Oct 11, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> The depth would possibly give away information on the submarine' capabilities.  The location could disclose the sub' mission.
> 
> Each ship and submarine emits noise, such as the propeller, machinery, and other sources of noise.  On nuclear submarines, the most difficult noises to eliminate are the reactor feed pumps.  Submarines can record this information in a database to identify the types of ships or submarines.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your answers! Yes, I'm fascinated about subs. But like airplanes, they have to give information to each other regarding where they are, so there's not a collision, esp in the dark depths of the ocean. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would think there would be a safeguard. How do they do that underwater without getting pinged by the enemy? Or do they even do that?


----------



## Feeding Crows (Oct 11, 2021)

Leo123 said:


> Did they hit something or were they hit with something?  Those subs know what is around them, don't kid yourself.


That's what we're trying to find out. More to follow I guess, but in the meantime, the Admiral's posts are fascinating. One of the most informative posters I've ever seen.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 12, 2021)

Freedom Crows Nest said:


> Thank you for your answers! Yes, I'm fascinated about subs. But like airplanes, they have to give information to each other regarding where they are, so there's not a collision, esp in the dark depths of the ocean. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would think there would be a safeguard. How do they do that underwater without getting pinged by the enemy? Or do they even do that?


You have no idea where the other subs are.  Submarines are not that big and the ocean is a very big place.  Submarines NEVER give away their position.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Oct 12, 2021)

shockedcanadian said:


> The vast population of citizens on this planet desire peace.  NO citizen should wish that aggressive nations are left unconfronted when they threaten the lives and safety of others.  If good men do not stand up, all of civilized humanity pays a price.
> 
> I have the utmost appreciation for those deployed on a submarine.  They maintain peace and stability in what is potentially the most hostile (and uncomfortable) of environments.
> 
> ...


The solution to China is the U.S. getting its boot off of Japan and letting Bushido flourish.


----------



## Feeding Crows (Oct 12, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> You have no idea where the other subs are.  Submarines are not that big and the ocean is a very big place.  Submarines NEVER give away their position.


The atmosphere is an even bigger place, and they do know where all aircraft are at any given moment. So you're saying, if I understand correctly, that nobody knows where their subs are at any given moment?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 12, 2021)

Freedom Crows Nest said:


> The atmosphere is an even bigger place, and they do know where all aircraft are at any given moment. So you're saying, if I understand correctly, that nobody knows where their subs are at any given moment?


Submarines only go where they are told to go.  They navigate by SATNAV and Inertial Navigation Systems.  If you are making no noise that passive sonar does not pick up, you just might get hit.  Such was the case with the USS San Francisco.   Seamounts don't make noise.


----------



## Rogue AI (Oct 13, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Submarines only go where they are told to go.  They navigate by SATNAV and Inertial Navigation Systems.  If you are making no noise that passive sonar does not pick up, you just might get hit.  Such was the case with the USS San Francisco.   Seamounts don't make noise.


Was this instance a seamount? I'd so, why didn't they know about it? It's not like the PRC being in the South China Sea is a brand new surprise. They've been at for years.


----------



## Feeding Crows (Oct 13, 2021)

Can a large whale damage a submarine? (for the Admiral)


----------



## Feeding Crows (Oct 13, 2021)

Rogue AI said:


> Was this instance a seamount? I'd so, why didn't they know about it? It's not like the PRC being in the South China Sea is a brand new surprise. They've been at for years.


we don't know. we're assuming an underground mountain at the moment.


----------



## Leo123 (Oct 13, 2021)

Freedom Crows Nest said:


> we don't know. we're assuming an underground mountain at the moment.


I would think that a modern sub would pick up a seamount.  Even the fish finder on my boat showed underwater features, depths, etc.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 13, 2021)

Leo123 said:


> I would think that a modern sub would pick up a seamount.  Even the fish finder on my boat showed underwater features, depths, etc.


Your fish finder send out a "sonar" signal.  Submarines do not because it is detectable.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 13, 2021)

Freedom Crows Nest said:


> Can a large whale damage a submarine? (for the Admiral)


I am sure it could if the sub was traveling very fast and it was a large whale.  I know when I was on watch in sonar, passively listening, we hit a what was thought to be a whale.  It was none too happy!


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 13, 2021)

Rogue AI said:


> Was this instance a seamount? I'd so, why didn't they know about it? It's not like the PRC being in the South China Sea is a brand new surprise. They've been at for years.


You have to have detailed charts in order to "see" the bottom of the ocean and sometimes they miss things or never surveyed exactly where it was.


----------



## Rogue AI (Oct 13, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> You have to have detailed charts in order to "see" the bottom of the ocean and sometimes they miss things or never surveyed exactly where it was.


That seems like a problem that should have been solved decades ago.  It's not like we didn't see the South China Sea as a potential hot spot.  Such an obvious and destructive failure is unacceptable.  The technology to accurately map the sea floor has been around long enough.  We can hardly be covert if we crash our subs and have to surface.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 13, 2021)

Rogue AI said:


> That seems like a problem that should have been solved decades ago.  It's not like we didn't see the South China Sea as a potential hot spot.  Such an obvious and destructive failure is unacceptable.  The technology to accurately map the sea floor has been around long enough.  We can hardly be covert if we crash our subs and have to surface.


What problem?  Do you know how little of the sea floor has been mapped?  Only 20%!


----------



## Rogue AI (Oct 13, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> What problem?  Do you know how little of the sea floor has been mapped?  Only 20%!


Yep, and we have the technology to do better.  I expect when we know of a potential military hot spot we would take the necessary precautions to protect our military assets.  This failure is just one more mark against our military leadership.  There are no excuses at this point.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 13, 2021)

Rogue AI said:


> *Yep, and we have the technology to do better.  *I expect when we know of a potential military hot spot we would take the necessary precautions to protect our military assets.  This failure is just one more mark against our military leadership.  There are no excuses at this point.


We do?  The ocean is like one big bathtub with an occasionally rough bottom.  

Just the South China Sea is over 1.351 million square miles.  Stick to a topic you know before making wild-assed assertions.


----------



## Rogue AI (Oct 13, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> We do?  The ocean is like one big bathtub with an occasionally rough bottom.
> 
> Just the South China Sea is over 1.351 million square miles.  Stick to a topic you know before making wild-assed assertions.


How was the 20% that is mapped done?  Are you saying we don't have the technology to do it?  BS.  Hitting a stationary object is not an acceptable outcome in an area we know to be a hot spot.  It is hardly a wild assed assertion to have expectations our military would adequately prepare in a manner that would not put our multi-million dollar equipment at risk.  Your penchant for excuses matches our military leadership, nothing is solved that way.  Pathetic.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Oct 13, 2021)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> The solution to China is the U.S. getting its boot off of Japan and letting Bushido flourish.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 13, 2021)

Rogue AI said:


> How was the 20% that is mapped done?  Are you saying we don't have the technology to do it?  BS.  Hitting a stationary object is not an acceptable outcome in an area we know to be a hot spot.  It is hardly a wild assed assertion to have expectations our military would adequately prepare in a manner that would not put our multi-million dollar equipment at risk.  Your penchant for excuses matches our military leadership, nothing is solved that way.  Pathetic.


The mapping is done using sonar, and the US Navy has specific ships operated by a civilian crew with Navy personnel attached.

The question I have for you is where do they start the mapping?  You can't do the mapping, update the charts, and provide the information to the submarine very quickly.  Also how do you know they are mapping the correct part of that 1.351 million square miles?

Our military leadership has nothing to do with this issue.  Respectfully, you need to get off your know-nothing high horse.

I was a qualified submariner (enlisted) and Surface Warfare officer, whose first assignment included the additional duty as an anti-submarine warfare evaluator, meaning myself and the ASW Officer were the prime officers assigned to prosecute submarine targets.  He would stand watch for 12 hours and then I would take over for the next 12 hours.  We conducted all of the ship's movements and weapon's systems from deep inside the ship, not from the bridge.

I know what I am talking about.


----------



## Rogue AI (Oct 13, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> The mapping is done using sonar, and the US Navy has specific ships operated by a civilian crew with Navy personnel attached.
> 
> The question I have for you is where do they start the mapping?  You can't do the mapping, update the charts, and provide the information to the submarine very quickly.  Also how do you know they are mapping the correct part of that 1.351 million square miles?
> 
> ...


They should have started years ago, before China actually had a permanent presence and started making artificial islands.  Whining about how hard something is won't fix it.  Making endless excuses don't get results.  Spare me your holier than thou bullshit.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 13, 2021)

Rogue AI said:


> They should have started years ago, before China actually had a permanent presence and started making artificial islands.  Whining about how hard something is won't fix it.  Making endless excuses don't get results.  Spare me your holier than thou bullshit.


Who appointed you God and allowed you to change the laws of physics and the sheer size of our planet.  Yet, you couldn't answer my simple question:  Where do you start?

You are the one with a holier than though attitude.


----------



## Rogue AI (Oct 13, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Who appointed you God and allowed you to change the laws of physics and the sheer size of our planet.  Yet, you couldn't answer my simple question:  Where do you start?
> 
> You are the one with a holier than though attitude.


Change the laws of physics?  What sort of nonsense is that?  You admitted we have mapped 20% of the ocean floor, now you claim it would be against the laws of physics?  Wow.

Sadly, it's a little late to start now, and that is the failure.  You excuse the failure because it would be hard.  Excusing failure only breeds more.

I hardly have a holier than thou attitude, I simply have expectations.  Too bad our so-called leadership does not.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 13, 2021)

Rogue AI said:


> Change the laws of physics?  What sort of nonsense is that?  You admitted we have mapped 20% of the ocean floor, *now you claim it would be against the laws of physics?*  Wow.
> 
> Sadly, it's a little late to start now, and that is the failure.  You excuse the failure because it would be hard.  Excusing failure only breeds more.
> 
> I hardly have a holier than thou attitude, I simply have expectations.  Too bad our so-called leadership does not.


The speed and distance that sound travels through water are physics.  Y0u said we had the technology to do this easily, so which is it?  Do you admit you have no clue as to our technology of the physics which limits it?

How many submarines have collided with undersea objects, assuming this later one qualifies as such?  How many billions of dollars do you want to expend to prevent a few accidents that may occur in decades?

I found this article you should read.









						Why Multi-Billion Dollar Nuclear Submarines Still Run Into Things Underwater
					

A veteran submariner explains the challenges crews face navigating complex undersea environments that they can't even see.




					www.thedrive.com
				




After reading that, you should know that everything I have told you is true.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Oct 13, 2021)

I wonder if they bumped into Bin Laden's coffin?


----------



## WinterBorn (Oct 13, 2021)

Normally I wade into any conversations involving the US Submarine Force.    But the Admiral has it handled.

As for a comprehensive mapping of the world's oceans, it would be a monumental task.    Technology?   Yes, we have it.   But the ocean floor is dynamic, not static.  By the time we finished mapping the other 80% of the oceans, they would have changed enough to make the maps largely worthless.    Especially considering how rare these collisions are.


----------



## Rogue AI (Oct 13, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> The speed and distance that sound travels through water are physics.  Y0u said we had the technology to do this easily, so which is it?  Do you admit you have no clue as to our technology of the physics which limits it?
> 
> How many submarines have collided with undersea objects, assuming this later one qualifies as such?  How many billions of dollars do you want to expend to prevent a few accidents that may occur in decades?
> 
> ...


There are multiple options, especially with the advances in unmanned underwater robotics.  To pretend we are limited to whatever narrow specifications you set is ridiculous.  Just keep excusing failure, no doubt we'll continue to see it.  

It is more than preventing accidents.  Fortunately in this instance the US was not conducting a wartime mission.  Being reckless and stupid with our first strike equipment is really not a good strategy.  If what you say is true is hardly relevant if the results end in failure and embarrassment for the country.  We need better solutions, and that doesn't happen if we keep allowing BS excuses.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 13, 2021)

Rogue AI said:


> There are multiple options, especially with the advances in unmanned underwater robotics.  To pretend we are limited to whatever narrow specifications you set is ridiculous.  Just keep excusing failure, no doubt we'll continue to see it.
> 
> It is more than preventing accidents.  Fortunately in this instance the US was not conducting a wartime mission.  Being reckless and stupid with our first strike equipment is really not a good strategy.  If what you say is true is hardly relevant if the results end in failure and embarrassment for the country.  We need better solutions, and that doesn't happen if we keep allowing BS excuses.


Are you familiar with the helicopter crash off San Diego on August 31st, 2021?

Did you know they just recovered the remains of the crew and they knew where the helicopter went down? Why did it take so long?

Answer:  The water was about a mile deep!

You obviously did not read the article I provided.  Why is that?  Do you a reading problem and could not find a child to read it to you?


----------



## WinterBorn (Oct 13, 2021)

Rogue AI said:


> There are multiple options, especially with the advances in unmanned underwater robotics.  To pretend we are limited to whatever narrow specifications you set is ridiculous.  Just keep excusing failure, no doubt we'll continue to see it.
> 
> It is more than preventing accidents.  Fortunately in this instance the US was not conducting a wartime mission.  Being reckless and stupid with our first strike equipment is really not a good strategy.  If what you say is true is hardly relevant if the results end in failure and embarrassment for the country.  We need better solutions, and that doesn't happen if we keep allowing BS excuses.



Every military operation has cost/value evaluations.    The cost of mapping the entire ocean floor would be astronomical.  And the value would be limited.


----------



## Rogue AI (Oct 13, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Are you familiar with the helicopter crash off San Diego on August 31st, 2021?
> 
> Did you know they just recovered the remains of the crew and they knew where the helicopter went down? Why did it take so long?
> 
> ...


I understand that the oceans are deep, what does that have to doing the job right?  Again, you are whining that because it's hard, we shouldn't do it.  How sad.  That sort of wussy thinking will set us back decades, when we need to moving forward to keep ahead of our enemies.

If I read your little article I'll do it on my time, not your command.


----------



## WinterBorn (Oct 13, 2021)

Rogue AI said:


> I understand that the oceans are deep, what does that have to doing the job right?  Again, you are whining that because it's hard, we shouldn't do it.  How sad.  That sort of wussy thinking will set us back decades, when we need to moving forward to keep ahead of our enemies.
> 
> If I read your little article I'll do it on my time, not your command.



The US started really using subs in WWI.  It was a small fleet, but effective.

In that 100 years, can you tell me how many time a US submarine has hit an underwater object that comprehensive mapping would have prevented?

It sounds like you have a great, albeit expensive, solution for a problem that does not really exist.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Oct 13, 2021)

Why not flood the zone with things that looks like sub to enemy sonar and ping away for accurate readings to be relayed to the actual nearby, but not too, boomer?


----------



## Rogue AI (Oct 13, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


> The US started really using subs in WWI.  It was a small fleet, but effective.
> 
> In that 100 years, can you tell me how many time a US submarine has hit an underwater object that comprehensive mapping would have prevented?
> 
> It sounds like you have a great, albeit expensive, solution for a problem that does not really exist.


Obviously it does exist. If in fact it was a seamount. Are there more? How many damaged subs are willing to risk?  Who is to say if damage occurred again, the crew could make it back to a friendly port.  The Chinese coaxed an AWACs out of sky, stole every bit of technology in it and returned the husk to us. Are we willing to give them a nuclear submarine? 

If we are not willing to seek solutions, we have no business being there and allowing it to happen again.


----------



## WinterBorn (Oct 13, 2021)

Rogue AI said:


> Obviously it does exist. If in fact it was a seamount. Are there more? How many damaged subs are willing to risk?  Who is to say if damage occurred again, the crew could make it back to a friendly port.  The Chinese coaxed an AWACs out of sky, stole every bit of technology in it and returned the husk to us. Are we willing to give them a nuclear submarine?
> 
> If we are not willing to seek solutions, we have no business being there and allowing it to happen again.



First of all, a single collision with undersea terrain in almost 100 years makes this incident as rare as they get.

Second of all, submarine crews are the best trained people in the Navy, as far as damage control goes.

And third, if a crew has to abandon ship, they will scuttle the boat in such a way as to make it useless to the Chinese.


As for how many more damaged subs are we willing to risk, we risk damage and death every time we submerged.    There were no deaths in this incident.   In fact, only 2 nuclear submarine have been lost at sea since the Nautilus was launched in 1954.    The USS Thresher and the USS Scorpion were lost in 1963 and 1968 respectively.   The Thresher had a piping issue, which resulted in a design change immediately.    The Scorpion's loss is thought to be human error with a Mk 37 torpedo.   No loss of a US submarine in over 50 years of continuous use speaks for itself.


----------



## Mr Natural (Oct 13, 2021)

Probably some kind of trap set by those commie chink bastards!

Let’s get those motherfuckers now!


----------



## Rogue AI (Oct 13, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


> First of all, a single collision with undersea terrain in almost 100 years makes this incident as rare as they get.
> 
> Second of all, submarine crews are the best trained people in the Navy, as far as damage control goes.
> 
> ...


This is the third incident in the last 20 years. The USS Hartford ran aground in 2003, the USS San Francisco struck something in 2005. Looks like we haven't learned from our mistakes nor bothered to find solutions. That indicates a level of stagnation on our part. We need to be moving forward not sitting still.

Judging by how our current crop of 'leaders' have conducted themselves I'm not overly confident they wouldn't just hand over a damaged sub.









						List of submarine incidents since 2000 - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## Leo123 (Oct 13, 2021)

Rogue AI said:


> This is the third incident in the last 20 years. The USS Hartford ran aground in 2003, the USS San Francisco struck something in 2005. Looks like we haven't learned from our mistakes nor bothered to find solutions. That indicates a level of stagnation on our part. We need to be moving forward not sitting still.
> 
> Judging by how our current crop of 'leaders' have conducted themselves I'm not overly confident they wouldn't just hand over a damaged sub.
> 
> ...


Queation..Have they no way to detect depth?


----------



## WinterBorn (Oct 13, 2021)

Rogue AI said:


> This is the third incident in the last 20 years. The USS Hartford ran aground in 2003, the USS San Francisco struck something in 2005. Looks like we haven't learned from our mistakes nor bothered to find solutions. That indicates a level of stagnation on our part. We need to be moving forward not sitting still.
> 
> Judging by how our current crop of 'leaders' have conducted themselves I'm not overly confident they wouldn't just hand over a damaged sub.
> 
> ...



The USS Hartford hit a US Navy ship.   Charting the ocean floor would not have helped.   And the investigation found that it was lax leadership and planning that caused the accident.

The USS San Francisco struck an undersea mountain.   They had charts that showed the mountain, but did not review them properly.  And they were traveling at flank speed.   Again, a complete mapping of the ocean floor would not have helped.


----------



## WinterBorn (Oct 13, 2021)

Leo123 said:


> Queation..Have they no way to detect depth?



They can detect their own depth.   But the only way to detect the depth of the bottom is to use active sonar.   In other words, pinging the bottom.   Not a smart move if you want to remain undetected.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Oct 13, 2021)




----------



## Rogue AI (Oct 13, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


> The USS Hartford hit a US Navy ship.   Charting the ocean floor would not have helped.   And the investigation found that it was lax leadership and planning that caused the accident.
> 
> The USS San Francisco struck an undersea mountain.   They had charts that showed the mountain, but did not review them properly.  And they were traveling at flank speed.   Again, a complete mapping of the ocean floor would not have helped.


The Hartford ran aground in 2003. It struck a ship in a separate incident. It's in the link.

So the real problem is actually incompetence? Great.


----------



## WinterBorn (Oct 13, 2021)

Rogue AI said:


> The Hartford ran aground in 2003. It struck a ship in a separate incident. It's in the link.
> 
> So the real problem is actually incompetence? Great.



Lax leadership.   Those responsible were relieved of command and transfered.


----------



## WinterBorn (Oct 13, 2021)

Rogue AI said:


> The Hartford ran aground in 2003. It struck a ship in a separate incident. It's in the link.
> 
> So the real problem is actually incompetence? Great.



It ran aground in the harbor.    I'd be willing to guess that they had maps of the bottom in the harbor.


----------



## Natural Citizen (Oct 13, 2021)

Over the course of recent years we've seen reports of all sorts of Navy destroyers crashing into each other and having navigation issues. Breaking down for unreported reasons. Having to come in for non-routine work.

A thinking man might wonder if some entity abroad is a bit more technologically advanced than our own leadership lets on.

But I digress...


----------



## Dekster (Oct 13, 2021)

Freedom Crows Nest said:


> It's not BS, it is true. A US Navy submarine crashed into an unknown object underneath the water. Causing damage and injuries.
> 
> That's the truth.
> 
> ...



The earth.  My assumption is that this was a spying mission that bumped into something while in Chinese waters and they are painting it as having happened way out in the deep water.


----------



## Natural Citizen (Oct 13, 2021)

Dekster said:


> The earth.  My assumption is that this was a spying mission that bumped into something while in Chinese waters and they are painting it as having happened way out in the deep water.



Sometimes people who are looking to provoke confrontation are fouled up by people looking to prevent it. 

And then everybody's like 'oops, done run into a deep see mountain."


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 13, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


> It ran aground in the harbor.    I'd be willing to guess that they had maps of the bottom in the harbor.


Plain navigation errors. A lot of people got fired.


----------



## beautress (Oct 13, 2021)

If it was a metal object, it could have been a sunken ship of yesteryear that had been lost at sea, or the wreckage of a WWII airplane that was lost but never found. Ever so often someone finds a giant sea creature the likes of which was reported but not validated without a photograph or dna scraping. The seas have their own secrets.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Oct 13, 2021)

Leo123 said:


> Queation..Have they no way to detect depth?


Fathometers give away the ship's position by making noise in the water.


----------



## Feeding Crows (Oct 13, 2021)

Rogue AI said:


> Change the laws of physics?  What sort of nonsense is that?  You admitted we have mapped 20% of the ocean floor, now you claim it would be against the laws of physics?  Wow.
> 
> Sadly, it's a little late to start now, and that is the failure.  You excuse the failure because it would be hard.  Excusing failure only breeds more.
> 
> I hardly have a holier than thou attitude, I simply have expectations.  Too bad our so-called leadership does not.


Let's step back for a moment, and understand the reason for an argument, over an accident that happened. The Admiral has supplied FACTS about how submarines work. There's nothing to argue there. 

I'm an ET enthusiast, but I'm not putting this on ET, until there are more facts that contradict hitting an undersea mountain. Enjoy the knowledge that you are being given on how subs work. We are lucky to have the Admiral on this board. Try to learn something.


----------



## Feeding Crows (Oct 13, 2021)

Rogue AI said:


> Change the laws of physics?  What sort of nonsense is that?  You admitted we have mapped 20% of the ocean floor, now you claim it would be against the laws of physics?  Wow.
> 
> Sadly, it's a little late to start now, and that is the failure.  You excuse the failure because it would be hard.  Excusing failure only breeds more.
> 
> I hardly have a holier than thou attitude, I simply have expectations.  Too bad our so-called leadership does not.


How is the accident his fault? What failure did he excuse, to make these accusations? Where are you going with this troll argument? 

You should be on my side, and trying to learn more, instead of attacking the teacher.


----------



## Feeding Crows (Oct 13, 2021)

We know *more about the topography of Mars than we do about the earth's sea floor*








						Understanding oceans
					






					en.unesco.org
				




This guy, the Admiral, was near the earth's sea floor. He's like an aguanaut.


----------



## Tumblin Tumbleweed (Oct 13, 2021)

shockedcanadian said:


> The vast population of citizens on this planet desire peace.  NO citizen should wish that aggressive nations are left unconfronted when they threaten the lives and safety of others.  If good men do not stand up, all of civilized humanity pays a price.
> 
> I have the utmost appreciation for those deployed on a submarine.  They maintain peace and stability in what is potentially the most hostile (and uncomfortable) of environments.
> 
> ...


Most magaturds in this thread so far seem to think this is perhaps a made-up, or ' fake news' scenario.

Now what?


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## the other mike (Oct 13, 2021)

Tommy Lee Jones and Gary Busey did it.


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 14, 2021)

Dekster said:


> The earth.  My assumption is that this was a spying mission that bumped into something while in Chinese waters and they are painting it as having happened way out in the deep water.


Possibly true, but unknown at this time. Don't know if we'll ever know...


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## Feeding Crows (Oct 16, 2021)

Tumblin Tumbleweed said:


> Most magaturds in this thread so far seem to think this is perhaps a made-up, or ' fake news' scenario.
> 
> Now what?


I know, they're not so nice in the head. I mean geez...


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## WinterBorn (Nov 1, 2021)

Update on this story.     It was an uncharted undersea mountain that the sub ran into.





__





						The US Navy has figured out what a nuclear-powered attack submarine ran into in the South China Sea
					





					www.msn.com


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## Feeding Crows (Nov 1, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


> Update on this story.     It was an uncharted undersea mountain that the sub ran into.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for the update! I hope it's charted now!


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## Dekster (Nov 5, 2021)

Three commanders on the sub sacked of their command  US Navy sacks commanding officers of crashed submarine


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## Feeding Crows (Nov 5, 2021)

Wow, three commanders fired. Was it total ineptitude, or a problem with sensors? 

Sacking 3 commanders, seems to mean that they could have avoided it? 

Avoid an uncharted mountain? Which, should not be possible?


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## WinterBorn (Nov 6, 2021)

Freedom Crows Nest said:


> Wow, three commanders fired. Was it total ineptitude, or a problem with sensors?
> 
> Sacking 3 commanders, seems to mean that they could have avoided it?
> 
> Avoid an uncharted mountain? Which, should not be possible?



The "sensors", as you call them, is better known as sonar.    It involves bouncing sound wave off of the surrounding area to get a clear picture of what is there.

The problem is, every military ship or boat in the area can tell exactly where you are, your heading and your speed.   The main advantage of a submarine is stealth.  Using the sonar eliminates that completely.


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## Feeding Crows (Nov 8, 2021)

That makes absolute sense, but then why fire 3 commanders, if it's inevitable?

Just to cast blame?


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## Feeding Crows (Nov 8, 2021)

I agree it's not UFO's, but something else happened, that we're not aware of yet.


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## Feeding Crows (Nov 9, 2021)

Freedom Crows Nest said:


> I agree it's not UFO's, but something else happened, that we're not aware of yet.


It'll probably be a movie in 26 years.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Nov 30, 2021)

Freedom Crows Nest said:


> Wow, three commanders fired. Was it total ineptitude, or a problem with sensors?
> 
> Sacking 3 commanders, seems to mean that they could have avoided it?
> 
> Avoid an uncharted mountain? Which, should not be possible?



What sensors?  This isn't Star Trek!


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## bodecea (Nov 30, 2021)

Scottish_Brexiteer_UK said:


> these submarines sound like they arent worth a shit


How many subs does Scotland have?   I forget.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Nov 30, 2021)

Freedom Crows Nest said:


> It'll probably be a movie in 26 years.


Why did you quote yourself?  You do know you can edit your posts, right?


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## WinterBorn (Dec 1, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> What sensors?  This isn't Star Trek!



I have tried to explain that the only way to "see" stationary features from a submarine makes a helluva lot of noise.

Too many just cannot grasp the concept.


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## Feeding Crows (Dec 2, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Why did you quote yourself?  You do know you can edit your posts, right?


Why are you fighting me?


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