# The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities...



## pbel

*I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*

Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
*Related Stories*

Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.


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## deltex1

pbel said:


> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.


Why not settle it with a war...as all things have been settled forever.


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## Phoenall

pbel said:


> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.


 


 Not up to the UN as to when the occupation ends, it is all down to the palestinians abiding with the UN resolutions. They will find they wont be able to fool the UN the way they fool you and the other stooges. They will fail to keep to the "living side by side with Israel in peace and security" there are no treaties or UN resolutions that say the borders will be based of the 1967 ceasefire lines. THEY WERE NEVER BORDERS AND WERE NEVER SEEN AS SUCH BY THE UN


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## pbel

Phoenall said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not up to the UN as to when the occupation ends, it is all down to the palestinians abiding with the UN resolutions. They will find they wont be able to fool the UN the way they fool you and the other stooges. They will fail to keep to the "living side by side with Israel in peace and security" there are no treaties or UN resolutions that say the borders will be based of the 1967 ceasefire lines. THEY WERE NEVER BORDERS AND WERE NEVER SEEN AS SUCH BY THE UN
Click to expand...

Broken Record by a robotic puppet.


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## Hossfly

pbel said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not up to the UN as to when the occupation ends, it is all down to the palestinians abiding with the UN resolutions. They will find they wont be able to fool the UN the way they fool you and the other stooges. They will fail to keep to the "living side by side with Israel in peace and security" there are no treaties or UN resolutions that say the borders will be based of the 1967 ceasefire lines. THEY WERE NEVER BORDERS AND WERE NEVER SEEN AS SUCH BY THE UN
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Broken Record by a robotic puppet.
Click to expand...

What atrocities? And what can the limp dicked UN do about it? They can't even stick around to fight when terrorists sneeze.


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## Roudy

pbel said:


> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.



I'd say the world is sick of Islamic animals like Hamas, ISIS, and Alqueda displaying their sick and depraved medieval savage mentality.


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## Vigilante




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## Vigilante




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## Daniyel

I Heard the US will veto that awesome enthusiasm shown by Abbas.


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## pbel

Hossfly said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not up to the UN as to when the occupation ends, it is all down to the palestinians abiding with the UN resolutions. They will find they wont be able to fool the UN the way they fool you and the other stooges. They will fail to keep to the "living side by side with Israel in peace and security" there are no treaties or UN resolutions that say the borders will be based of the 1967 ceasefire lines. THEY WERE NEVER BORDERS AND WERE NEVER SEEN AS SUCH BY THE UN
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Broken Record by a robotic puppet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *What atrocities?* And what can the limp dicked UN do about it? They can't even stick around to fight when terrorists sneeze.
Click to expand...

Just the murder of 1700 Civilians with women and children...18,000 homes demolished by bombing, with only one Israeli civilian dead with the Hamas rockets...

Tell us while ya'll smacking your lips at those numbers: do ya'll go to church or synagogue and thank a gawd?


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## Hossfly

pbel said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not up to the UN as to when the occupation ends, it is all down to the palestinians abiding with the UN resolutions. They will find they wont be able to fool the UN the way they fool you and the other stooges. They will fail to keep to the "living side by side with Israel in peace and security" there are no treaties or UN resolutions that say the borders will be based of the 1967 ceasefire lines. THEY WERE NEVER BORDERS AND WERE NEVER SEEN AS SUCH BY THE UN
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Broken Record by a robotic puppet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *What atrocities?* And what can the limp dicked UN do about it? They can't even stick around to fight when terrorists sneeze.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just the murder of 1700 Civilians with women and children...18,000 homes demolished by bombing, with only one Israeli civilian dead with the Hamas rockets...
> 
> Tell us while ya'll smacking your lips at those numbers: do ya'll go to church or synagogue and thank a gawd?
Click to expand...

Since we realize you are such a humanitarian, Phillip, we know that you are contributing to many relief organizations that are helping the Syrians and Iraqis.  190,000 dead people just in Syria is not chopped liver, and the over 2,000,000 refugees need your help desperately.  Then again since you can't blame the Jews for this you probably are not even following the news to see what is happening to people elsewhere..


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## MJB12741

pbel said:


> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.




PBel must be losing his marbles.  Thread title says "The World Is Sick Of Israel Attrocities."  And yet in his post, the links only show that the Palestinians are pissed with Israel.  Oh well, want another VICTORY, keep them rocket missiles comin' boys.


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## montelatici

MJB12741 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PBel must be losing his marbles.  Thread title says "The World Is Sick Of Israel Attrocities."  And yet in his post, the links only show that the Palestinians are pissed with Israel.  Oh well, want another VICTORY, keep them rocket missiles comin' boys.
Click to expand...


"The Economist raises the specter of "delegitimization" — of Europe losing its conviction in Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state as long as the current conditions persist. "Gone are the days when Israel, with its _kibbutzim_, was a darling of idealistic young Europeans," says the Economist. "Faded, too, the idea of Israel as vulnerable and poor, encircled by massed armies."

How Israel is losing Europe - The Washington Post


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## pbel

MJB12741 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PBel must be losing his marbles.  Thread title says "The World Is Sick Of Israel Attrocities."  And yet in his post, the links only show that the Palestinians are pissed with Israel.  Oh well, want another VICTORY, keep them rocket missiles comin' boys.
Click to expand...

*World grows tired of Israel crying wolf – When it's the wolf ...*
www.veteranstoday.com/.../*world*-grows-*tired-of-israel*-crying-wolf-whe...

Cached
Similar
Feb 27, 2014 - _*World*_ grows _*tired of Israel*_ crying wolf – When it's the wolf ... _*Crimes*_ Against Humanity in _*Israel*_ not only carries no social stigma,but is the ...


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## pbel

_Patrick Willis_

 March 3, 2014 - 11:20 pm
Fantastic. Crystal clear, concise precis that paints the bleak picture the entire globe faces right now. Seemingly, there is no way out of this maze.

stevor
 March 2, 2014 - 9:55 pm
The main problem that I see is that the vast majority of the people have no clue that 90% of the Israel inhabitants, the AshkeNAZI jews are NOT even Semites (though they love to cry “anti-Semitism” when attacked. Look up in Genesis or wikipedia “Ashkenaz”, the ancestor of the AshkeNAZI (Khazar) jews and you’ll see that they’re descendants of Japheth. Semites are descendants of Isaac or Ishmael!
When the AshkeNAZIs are seen as FRAUDS, maybe people will start to question more about them.


I Clower
 March 1, 2014 - 12:02 pm
The world grows tired of Israel, from A to Z.
The world grows tired of Israel’s arrogance, belligerence, cavilling, destruction, exploitation, foreign lobbies, garrulousness, hypocrisy, intel. ops, Jewish supremacism, killing of innocents, licentiousness, murderousness, nuclear “secrets”, oppression of Palestinians, perversions of truth, quarreling, revisionism, sophistry, Talmudism, usury, vengefulness, wars, xenophobia, yammering, Zionism.
Yes, the world grows tired of Israel.



DaveE
 March 1, 2014 - 10:58 pm
Talmudism? Is that a word? I love it, regardless. Says all you need to know about the pack o’ lies called Judaism and “the Jews”. Pure historical and “religious” fiction, from start to (hopefully very painful) finish.

Curmudgeon
 March 1, 2014 - 8:43 am
Contined…
Any threat, whether African, Asian, or European will be attacked. Events in the Ukraine are about attacking the Russian threat of technical assistance to Iran and placement of Russian weapons in Syria. Weapons that could smash Israeli conventional weapons capability in minutes, and shoot down their nuclear arsenal within a minute of launch.
Russia recognizes the wolf, or more appropriately the mad dog, and the danger it poses. Zionist occupied NATO countries are the problem, not the solution.


Curmudgeon
 March 1, 2014 - 8:35 am
Mr. Dean,
At the risk of seeming to go off topic, I offer the following
The Shah had invaded Iraq to reclaim the Shat-al-Arab waterway. Once the Shah stated on “60 minutes” that the Jewish lobby had too much influence in Washington, he became unreliable and his days were numbered. Khomeni became the USA’s vehicle to eliminate the Shah, but became unreliable immediately. Iran initiated border skirmishes with Iraq. Saddam, who was becoming unreliable, was goaded by the USA to retaliate and invade Iran to remove the unreliable Khomeni. It was doomed to fail as Iran was always a larger military power. Both Iran and Iraq were gassing each other, which was fine by Israel and the USA. The higher the body count, the better to carry out 
*read more ...*



stephanaugust
 March 1, 2014 - 11:08 am
“… Once the Shah stated on “60 minutes” that the Jewish lobby had too much influence in Washington …”
Thank you for this info.
gerryhiles
 March 1, 2014 - 8:37 pm
Excellent input mate.

Bente
 February 28, 2014 - 11:19 pm
Ukraine has been a good lesson as both US and EU have been very overt in what they have been and are doing, and there are eye and ear WITNESSES to all that so when they now lie about it and warn of Russian aggression…. it illustrate the modus operandi of US and EU’s regime change how its done how it is then “legalised” and so on. The signature has been not only revealed but has been confirmed. And we can go back in recent history maybe just the 100 years to beginning of WW1 1914, and go though every episode and get the signature confirmed. …. the good thing is that we are not in 1914 but in 2014 and there are countries that were weak then and are strong now to mention the most obvious … Russia, China and Iran that is this side of the pond… 
*read more ...*


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## Dogmaphobe

MJB12741 said:


> PBel must be losing his marbles.  .




 The obsession with Jews and general level of paranoia exhibited by ANY these relentless antisemites is indicative of some level of disturbance. 

 I think what makes antisemitism click with so many deranged people is that there is always an imaginary  conspiracy to explain all their problems in dealing with the world, and it is legitimized by the fact that it is so formulaic, thus making it a shared experience.


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## pbel

Dogmaphobe said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> PBel must be losing his marbles.  .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The obsession with Jews and general level of paranoia exhibited by ANY these relentless antisemites is indicative of some level of disturbance.
> 
> I think what makes antisemitism click with so many deranged people is that there is always an imaginary  conspiracy to explain all their problems in dealing with the world, and it is legitimized by the fact that it is so formulaic, thus making it a shared experience.
Click to expand...

*Obsession with Jews my ass! According to you Israeli suck-offs is the whole fucking world is anti-Semitic and refuse to see that the atrocities of killing basically un-armed people and stealing their ancestral lands is a laughing matter to you ZioNazis!

Anti-Semitism my ass!*


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## teddyearp

Wow, really pbel?  Your post #15 just links mostly to a bunch of peoples opinions posted to an article that is not the subject of this thread's OP.

My world is sick and tired of you folks trying to shove down my throat that the world hates the U.S. and Israel.  Sure there are some who hate; like mostly Muslim extremists.

If Abbas is really trying to lead the Palestinians, he should call for elections; they are WAY overdue and then step the fuck aside and let's see what the real rank and file Palestinians want.  I bet it's peace and not a bunch more sabre rattling.


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## Dogmaphobe

pbel said:


> *Obsession with Jews my ass! *




My goodness -- it must be quite extensive with you if it even affects your ass.


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## Hossfly

pbel said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PBel must be losing his marbles.  Thread title says "The World Is Sick Of Israel Attrocities."  And yet in his post, the links only show that the Palestinians are pissed with Israel.  Oh well, want another VICTORY, keep them rocket missiles comin' boys.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *World grows tired of Israel crying wolf – When it's the wolf ...*
> www.veteranstoday.com/.../*world*-grows-*tired-of-israel*-crying-wolf-whe...
> 
> Cached
> Similar
> Feb 27, 2014 - _*World*_ grows _*tired of Israel*_ crying wolf – When it's the wolf ... _*Crimes*_ Against Humanity in _*Israel*_ not only carries no social stigma,but is the ...
Click to expand...

We veterans get irked when you and your tribe quote Veterans Today, a site of anti-American communistic deadbeats who are no better than terrorist supporters.


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## teddyearp

Hossfly said:


> We veterans get irked when you and your tribe quote Veterans Today, a site of anti-American communistic deadbeats who are no better than terrorist supporters.



They're probably the ones who wished they went to Canada instead?  Or just burned their draft cards . . .

Thank you by the way for fighting in a war that no one liked and then hated and blamed you for.


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## pbel

teddyearp said:


> Wow, really pbel?  Your post #15 just links mostly to a bunch of peoples opinions posted to an article that is not the subject of this thread's OP.
> 
> My world is sick and tired of you folks trying to shove down my throat that the world hates the U.S. and Israel.  Sure there are some who hate; like mostly Muslim extremists.
> 
> If Abbas is really trying to lead the Palestinians, he should call for elections; they are WAY overdue and then step the fuck aside and let's see what the real rank and file Palestinians want.  I bet it's peace and not a bunch more sabre rattling.


The last election brought Hamas to power...I think most Israelis would also choose peace...share Jerusalem, land swap for the settlements and live in peace.

I support that.


----------



## Hossfly

pbel said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, really pbel?  Your post #15 just links mostly to a bunch of peoples opinions posted to an article that is not the subject of this thread's OP.
> 
> My world is sick and tired of you folks trying to shove down my throat that the world hates the U.S. and Israel.  Sure there are some who hate; like mostly Muslim extremists.
> 
> If Abbas is really trying to lead the Palestinians, he should call for elections; they are WAY overdue and then step the fuck aside and let's see what the real rank and file Palestinians want.  I bet it's peace and not a bunch more sabre rattling.
> 
> 
> 
> The last election brought Hamas to power...I think most Israelis would also choose peace...share Jerusalem, land swap for the settlements and live in peace.
> 
> I support that.
Click to expand...

Anything except sharing Jerusalem. That's the City of David, not ....and Abdul.


----------



## pbel

Hossfly said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, really pbel?  Your post #15 just links mostly to a bunch of peoples opinions posted to an article that is not the subject of this thread's OP.
> 
> My world is sick and tired of you folks trying to shove down my throat that the world hates the U.S. and Israel.  Sure there are some who hate; like mostly Muslim extremists.
> 
> If Abbas is really trying to lead the Palestinians, he should call for elections; they are WAY overdue and then step the fuck aside and let's see what the real rank and file Palestinians want.  I bet it's peace and not a bunch more sabre rattling.
> 
> 
> 
> The last election brought Hamas to power...I think most Israelis would also choose peace...share Jerusalem, land swap for the settlements and live in peace.
> 
> I support that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Anything except sharing Jerusalem. That's the City of David, not ....and Abdul.
Click to expand...

Abraham fathered both David and Abdul, you are brothers in faith and in blood which geneticists have proven, share the heart of Palestine Jerusalem and live in shalom/salaam/peace...


----------



## MJB12741

pbel said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> PBel must be losing his marbles.  .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The obsession with Jews and general level of paranoia exhibited by ANY these relentless antisemites is indicative of some level of disturbance.
> 
> I think what makes antisemitism click with so many deranged people is that there is always an imaginary  conspiracy to explain all their problems in dealing with the world, and it is legitimized by the fact that it is so formulaic, thus making it a shared experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Obsession with Jews my ass! According to you Israeli suck-offs is the whole fucking world is anti-Semitic and refuse to see that the atrocities of killing basically un-armed people and stealing their ancestral lands is a laughing matter to you ZioNazis!
> 
> Anti-Semitism my ass!*
Click to expand...


HUH???  We are indeed opposed to the "stealing of ancestral land."  That Pbel is why we support Israel?


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> *
> ...*UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence...



Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaha...







God, I love these Palestinian propaganda shills... endless hours of amusement.

There isn't a snowball's chance in hell of that passing the Security Council.

And if it did, the Israelis would send a Thank-You card to the UN, in response to the Resolution, after the Resolution had been duplicated, then utilized to augment the Israelis' existing supply of toilet paper.

Honest-to-God, you've gotta wonder sometimes, what planet these people are from!


----------



## montelatici

Kondor3 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> ...*UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaha...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> God, I love these Palestinian propaganda shills... endless hours of amusement.
> 
> There isn't a snowball's chance in hell of that passing the Security Council.
> 
> And if it did, the Israelis would send a Thank-You card to the UN, in response to the Resolution, after the Resolution had been duplicated, then utilized to augment the Israelis' existing supply of toilet paper.
> 
> Honest-to-God, you've gotta wonder sometimes, what planet these people are from!
Click to expand...


That's what the supporters of Apartheid South Africa said too. LOL


----------



## shart_attack

I ain't the least bit sick of "Israeli atrocities", myself.

Wouldn't bother me in the least if Israel mopped the floor of the Gaza with fresh Palestinian blood — after having given them a fresh teraton hydrogen bomb for Ramadan.


----------



## docmauser1

pbel said:


> I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities... Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News


Ah, palisimian drivel thread. The palistanian occupation never changes, of course. Palistanians exhibit an utter lack of diversity, indeed.


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> That's what the supporters of Apartheid South Africa said too. LOL


What with the garbage state the SA is now. One must hate africans to promote that "struggle" against "apartheid".


----------



## montelatici

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what the supporters of Apartheid South Africa said too. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> What with the garbage state the SA is now. One must hate africans to promote that "struggle" against "apartheid".
Click to expand...


So, you are an Apartheid supporter.  I knew it, just wanted confirmation.  No wonder you support Israel, today's Apartheid state.


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what the supporters of Apartheid South Africa said too. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> What with the garbage state the SA is now. One must hate africans to promote that "struggle" against "apartheid".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you are an Apartheid supporter.  I knew it, just wanted confirmation.  No wonder you support Israel, today's Apartheid state.
Click to expand...

Why does our honorable montelatici hate africans so much?


----------



## Youch

pbel said:


> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.





pbel said:


> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.



The world is not sick of a nation and people defending themselves, attempting to exist.  They are sick from tolerating hatred and misinformation, largely born from apathy and ignorance.

What would you have them do?  Lay down their arms and succumb to genocide?

Or should they all pack up and move away, once again, as they did when the Romans banished them from their land in 70AD, and move where?  To your area?  I suspect you would not tolerate that, either.


----------



## pbel

Youch said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The world is not sick of a nation and people defending themselves, attempting to exist.  They are sick from tolerating hatred and misinformation, largely born from apathy and ignorance.
> 
> What would you have them do?  Lay down their arms and succumb to genocide?
> 
> Or should they all pack up and move away, once again, as they did when the Romans banished them from their land in 70AD, and move where?  To your area?  I suspect you would not tolerate that, either.
Click to expand...

They should stop bull shit to the world and go back to the 67 borders that everyone supports...The 67 Pre-emptive strike by Israel was an aggressive war to steal the West Bank...

Israel cannot fool everyone!


----------



## ChrisL

Youch said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The world is not sick of a nation and people defending themselves, attempting to exist.  They are sick from tolerating hatred and misinformation, largely born from apathy and ignorance.
> 
> What would you have them do?  Lay down their arms and succumb to genocide?
> 
> Or should they all pack up and move away, once again, as they did when the Romans banished them from their land in 70AD, and move where?  To your area?  I suspect you would not tolerate that, either.
Click to expand...


I agree.  It's certainly not ISRAEL that I'm tired of, but I am sick of almost ALL of the other middle eastern countries which are a thorn in the side of every single civilized nation on earth!!  They and their actions absolutely disgust me.  They are just uncivilized, ignorant, uneducated savages for the most part, also brainwashed.


----------



## ChrisL

Roudy said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd say the world is sick of Islamic animals like Hamas, ISIS, and Alqueda displaying their sick and depraved medieval savage mentality.
Click to expand...


Yes!!!  Totally agree.  I am tired of those terrorist savages.  I just saw another report about the beheading of a European man by ISIS.


----------



## ChrisL

Vigilante said:


>



It's just crazy, IMO.  CRAAAAZZZZZYYYYY.


----------



## Penelope

Hossfly said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, really pbel?  Your post #15 just links mostly to a bunch of peoples opinions posted to an article that is not the subject of this thread's OP.
> 
> My world is sick and tired of you folks trying to shove down my throat that the world hates the U.S. and Israel.  Sure there are some who hate; like mostly Muslim extremists.
> 
> If Abbas is really trying to lead the Palestinians, he should call for elections; they are WAY overdue and then step the fuck aside and let's see what the real rank and file Palestinians want.  I bet it's peace and not a bunch more sabre rattling.
> 
> 
> 
> The last election brought Hamas to power...I think most Israelis would also choose peace...share Jerusalem, land swap for the settlements and live in peace.
> 
> I support that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Anything except sharing Jerusalem. That's the City of David, not ....and Abdul.
Click to expand...


Its not King Davids anymore and hasn't been for a centuries . (if King David even existed)


----------



## Penelope

ChrisL said:


> Youch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The world is not sick of a nation and people defending themselves, attempting to exist.  They are sick from tolerating hatred and misinformation, largely born from apathy and ignorance.
> 
> What would you have them do?  Lay down their arms and succumb to genocide?
> 
> Or should they all pack up and move away, once again, as they did when the Romans banished them from their land in 70AD, and move where?  To your area?  I suspect you would not tolerate that, either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree.  It's certainly not ISRAEL that I'm tired of, but I am sick of almost ALL of the other middle eastern countries which are a thorn in the side of every single civilized nation on earth!!  They and their actions absolutely disgust me.  They are just uncivilized, ignorant, uneducated savages for the most part, also brainwashed.
Click to expand...


 Apparently you didn't follow the Protective Edge massacre?


----------



## ChrisL

Penelope said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Youch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The world is not sick of a nation and people defending themselves, attempting to exist.  They are sick from tolerating hatred and misinformation, largely born from apathy and ignorance.
> 
> What would you have them do?  Lay down their arms and succumb to genocide?
> 
> Or should they all pack up and move away, once again, as they did when the Romans banished them from their land in 70AD, and move where?  To your area?  I suspect you would not tolerate that, either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree.  It's certainly not ISRAEL that I'm tired of, but I am sick of almost ALL of the other middle eastern countries which are a thorn in the side of every single civilized nation on earth!!  They and their actions absolutely disgust me.  They are just uncivilized, ignorant, uneducated savages for the most part, also brainwashed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently you didn't follow the Protective Edge massacre?
Click to expand...


TBH, I don't really care.  I see the Muslim religion and the middle eastern countries (with the exception of Israel and perhaps a COUPLE others who are more secular) as being the biggest problem in our world today.  

I still think we would be better off if we went over there, carpet bombed the place, and took over.  We can call it Middle America!


----------



## docmauser1

pbel said:


> They should stop bull shit to the world and go back to the 67 borders that everyone supports...The 67 Pre-emptive strike by Israel was an aggressive war to steal the West Bank...


Silly drivel.


pbel said:


> Israel cannot fool everyone!


Fooling fools!? Funny!


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what the supporters of Apartheid South Africa said too. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> What with the garbage state the SA is now. One must hate africans to promote that "struggle" against "apartheid".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you are an Apartheid supporter.  I knew it, just wanted confirmation.  No wonder you support Israel, today's Apartheid state.
Click to expand...


Funny how you call Israel an Apartheid state wher you can't even point out where there is Apartheid inside  Israel proper.
Your bullshit liss just keep on coming. Non stop bullshit


----------



## Penelope

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what the supporters of Apartheid South Africa said too. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> What with the garbage state the SA is now. One must hate africans to promote that "struggle" against "apartheid".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you are an Apartheid supporter.  I knew it, just wanted confirmation.  No wonder you support Israel, today's Apartheid state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how you call Israel an Apartheid state wher you can't even point out where there is Apartheid inside  Israel proper.
> Your bullshit liss just keep on coming. Non stop bullshit
Click to expand...


How can we be all wrong when everyday more and more people are agreeing with us:
*Columbia, Harvard, Yale anthropologists among 360 backing boycott of Israel*


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what the supporters of Apartheid South Africa said too. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> What with the garbage state the SA is now. One must hate africans to promote that "struggle" against "apartheid".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you are an Apartheid supporter.  I knew it, just wanted confirmation.  No wonder you support Israel, today's Apartheid state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how you call Israel an Apartheid state wher you can't even point out where there is Apartheid inside  Israel proper.
> Your bullshit liss just keep on coming. Non stop bullshit
Click to expand...


"The Jewish state (for so it identifies itself, after all) maintains a system of formal and informal housing segregation both in Israel and in the occupied territories. It's obvious, of course, that Jewish settlements in the West Bank aren't exactly bursting with Palestinians. In Israel itself, however, *hundreds of communities have been established for Jewish residents on land expropriated from Palestinians, in which segregation is maintained, for example, by admissions committees empowered to use ethnic criteria long since banned in the United States, or by the inability of Palestinian citizens to access land held exclusively for the Jewish people by the state-sanctioned Jewish National Fund.*

Jewish residents of the occupied territories enjoy various rights and privileges denied to their Palestinian neighbors. While the former enjoy the protections of Israeli civil law, the latter are subject to the harsh provisions of military law. So, while their Jewish neighbors come and go freely, West Bank Palestinians are subject to arbitrary arrest and detention, and to the denial of freedom of movement; they are frequently barred from access to educational or healthcare facilities, Christian and Muslim sites for religious worship, and so on."

Does the term apartheid fit Israel Of course it does. - LA Times

Meanwhile, Palestinian citizens of Israel must contend with about 50 state laws and bills that, according to the Palestinian-Israeli human rights organization Adalah, either privilege Jews or directly discriminate against the Palestinian minority. One of the key components of Israel's nationality law, the Law of Return, for example, applies to Jews only, and excludes Palestinians, including Palestinians born in what is now the state of Israel. While Jewish citizens can move back and forth without interdiction, Israeli law expressly bars Palestinian citizens from bringing spouses from the occupied territories to live with them in Israel.


----------



## docmauser1

Penelope said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what the supporters of Apartheid South Africa said too. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> What with the garbage state the SA is now. One must hate africans to promote that "struggle" against "apartheid".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you are an Apartheid supporter.  I knew it, just wanted confirmation.  No wonder you support Israel, today's Apartheid state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how you call Israel an Apartheid state wher you can't even point out where there is Apartheid inside  Israel proper.
> Your bullshit liss just keep on coming. Non stop bullshit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can we be all wrong when everyday more and more people are agreeing with us: Columbia, Harvard, Yale anthropologists among 360 backing boycott of Israel
Click to expand...

It's not surprising, mother nature is producing bigger and better idiots lately. An undisputed fact of life.


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> ... Israeli law expressly bars Palestinian citizens from bringing spouses from the occupied territories to live with them in Israel.


Romantic palistanians, want love in style, of course.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what the supporters of Apartheid South Africa said too. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> What with the garbage state the SA is now. One must hate africans to promote that "struggle" against "apartheid".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you are an Apartheid supporter.  I knew it, just wanted confirmation.  No wonder you support Israel, today's Apartheid state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how you call Israel an Apartheid state wher you can't even point out where there is Apartheid inside  Israel proper.
> Your bullshit liss just keep on coming. Non stop bullshit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "The Jewish state (for so it identifies itself, after all) maintains a system of formal and informal housing segregation both in Israel and in the occupied territories. It's obvious, of course, that Jewish settlements in the West Bank aren't exactly bursting with Palestinians. In Israel itself, however, *hundreds of communities have been established for Jewish residents on land expropriated from Palestinians, in which segregation is maintained, for example, by admissions committees empowered to use ethnic criteria long since banned in the United States, or by the inability of Palestinian citizens to access land held exclusively for the Jewish people by the state-sanctioned Jewish National Fund.*
> 
> Jewish residents of the occupied territories enjoy various rights and privileges denied to their Palestinian neighbors. While the former enjoy the protections of Israeli civil law, the latter are subject to the harsh provisions of military law. So, while their Jewish neighbors come and go freely, West Bank Palestinians are subject to arbitrary arrest and detention, and to the denial of freedom of movement; they are frequently barred from access to educational or healthcare facilities, Christian and Muslim sites for religious worship, and so on."
> 
> Does the term apartheid fit Israel Of course it does. - LA Times
> 
> Meanwhile, Palestinian citizens of Israel must contend with about 50 state laws and bills that, according to the Palestinian-Israeli human rights organization Adalah, either privilege Jews or directly discriminate against the Palestinian minority. One of the key components of Israel's nationality law, the Law of Return, for example, applies to Jews only, and excludes Palestinians, including Palestinians born in what is now the state of Israel. While Jewish citizens can move back and forth without interdiction, Israeli law expressly bars Palestinian citizens from bringing spouses from the occupied territories to live with them in Israel.
Click to expand...


As I thought, you cannot prove there is apartheid in Israel proper.
Jews and Arabs live side by side, work side by side, eat aide by side, move forward side by side. In Apartheid South Africa, Blacks were not allowed to do the above.
Is there some discrimination against Arabs in Israel by the population? Absolutely, but every country has discrimination.


----------



## Penelope

shart_attack said:


> I ain't the least bit sick of "Israeli atrocities", myself.
> 
> Wouldn't bother me in the least if Israel mopped the floor of the Gaza with fresh Palestinian blood — after having given them a fresh teraton hydrogen bomb for Ramadan.




I just can't believe how some Zionist are worst than the the Muslims they despise.
You do realize you just said you  approve of genocide , and yet you proclaim to be a Christian.


----------



## Penelope

ChrisL said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Youch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The world is not sick of a nation and people defending themselves, attempting to exist.  They are sick from tolerating hatred and misinformation, largely born from apathy and ignorance.
> 
> What would you have them do?  Lay down their arms and succumb to genocide?
> 
> Or should they all pack up and move away, once again, as they did when the Romans banished them from their land in 70AD, and move where?  To your area?  I suspect you would not tolerate that, either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree.  It's certainly not ISRAEL that I'm tired of, but I am sick of almost ALL of the other middle eastern countries which are a thorn in the side of every single civilized nation on earth!!  They and their actions absolutely disgust me.  They are just uncivilized, ignorant, uneducated savages for the most part, also brainwashed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently you didn't follow the Protective Edge massacre?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> TBH, I don't really care.  I see the Muslim religion and the middle eastern countries (with the exception of Israel and perhaps a COUPLE others who are more secular) as being the biggest problem in our world today.
> 
> I still think we would be better off if we went over there, carpet bombed the place, and took over.  We can call it Middle America!
Click to expand...


Oh goodie another Zionist who is ok with genocide. You people are unbelievable.


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what the supporters of Apartheid South Africa said too. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> What with the garbage state the SA is now. One must hate africans to promote that "struggle" against "apartheid".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you are an Apartheid supporter.  I knew it, just wanted confirmation.  No wonder you support Israel, today's Apartheid state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how you call Israel an Apartheid state wher you can't even point out where there is Apartheid inside  Israel proper.
> Your bullshit liss just keep on coming. Non stop bullshit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "The Jewish state (for so it identifies itself, after all) maintains a system of formal and informal housing segregation both in Israel and in the occupied territories. It's obvious, of course, that Jewish settlements in the West Bank aren't exactly bursting with Palestinians. In Israel itself, however, *hundreds of communities have been established for Jewish residents on land expropriated from Palestinians, in which segregation is maintained, for example, by admissions committees empowered to use ethnic criteria long since banned in the United States, or by the inability of Palestinian citizens to access land held exclusively for the Jewish people by the state-sanctioned Jewish National Fund.*
> 
> Jewish residents of the occupied territories enjoy various rights and privileges denied to their Palestinian neighbors. While the former enjoy the protections of Israeli civil law, the latter are subject to the harsh provisions of military law. So, while their Jewish neighbors come and go freely, West Bank Palestinians are subject to arbitrary arrest and detention, and to the denial of freedom of movement; they are frequently barred from access to educational or healthcare facilities, Christian and Muslim sites for religious worship, and so on."
> 
> Does the term apartheid fit Israel Of course it does. - LA Times
> 
> Meanwhile, Palestinian citizens of Israel must contend with about 50 state laws and bills that, according to the Palestinian-Israeli human rights organization Adalah, either privilege Jews or directly discriminate against the Palestinian minority. One of the key components of Israel's nationality law, the Law of Return, for example, applies to Jews only, and excludes Palestinians, including Palestinians born in what is now the state of Israel. While Jewish citizens can move back and forth without interdiction, Israeli law expressly bars Palestinian citizens from bringing spouses from the occupied territories to live with them in Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As I thought, you cannot prove there is apartheid in Israel proper.
> Jews and Arabs live side by side, work side by side, eat aide by side, move forward side by side. In Apartheid South Africa, Blacks were not allowed to do the above.
> Is there some discrimination against Arabs in Israel by the population? Absolutely, but every country has discrimination.
Click to expand...


Talk about an Orwellian response.  The article confirms that Israel practices Apartheid and you respond by claiming it doesn't.  

"11. The Committee notes with increased concern that Israeli society maintains Jewish 
and non-Jewish sectors, which raises issues under article 3 of the Convention. Clarifications 
provided by the delegation confirmed the Committee’s concerns in relation to the existence 
of two systems of education, one in Hebrew and one in Arabic, which except in rare 
circumstances remain impermeable and inaccessible to the other community, as well as 
separate municipalities: Jewish municipalities and the so-called “municipalities of the 
minorities”. The enactment of the Admissions Committees Law (2011), which gives private 
committees full discretion to reject applicants deemed “unsuitable to the social life of the community”, is a clear sign that the concerns as regards segregation remain pressing..."

Apartheid, pure and simple.

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/cerd/docs/CERD.C.ISR.CO.14-16.pdf


----------



## docmauser1

Penelope said:


> Oh goodie another Zionist who is ok with genocide. You people are unbelievable.


Unbelievable drivel.


----------



## Penelope

_I don't know if this guy is nuts or greatly deluded, but I wish he'd wake up:_

Inside the Most Insanely Pro-Israel Meeting You Could Ever Attend

The Christians United for Israel want nothing less than total victory.


“We’ve come to Washington *to ask our government to stop demanding for Israel to show restraint. 
John Hagee*

“If a foreign power had launched 1,000 rockets into America, we would be pulling the gates of the White House _down_,” said Hagee. “Let Israel finish the job. Let every rocket be dismantled. Let every tunnel be destroyed.”
Hagee had set the theme: This year’s CUFI conference, followed by its members’ lobbying trips to Congress, would pressure

Christians United for Israel The most insanely pro-Israel conference of the year.


----------



## Kondor3

Penelope said:


> ...Apparently you didn't follow the Protective Edge massacre?


No such massacre occurred.

There were, indeed, over 2,000 Gazan-Palelestinian casualties, during the course of the Israel's Operation Protective Edge.

A mixture of Hamas (and allied militia group) combatants, and, unfortunately, considerable numbers of civilian casualties.

Civilian casualties would have been vastly lower had Hamas et al had the balls to move their war-assets and related military targets away from their civilian population centers, however, as its their custom, Hamas et al intentionally embedded those war-assets amongst their civilians in a cowardly fashion, hiding behind the skirts of their women and children like the pussies they are.

Don't want high civilian casualties? Move your war-assets, combat-units, leadership, staging areas, munitions and weapons caches, etc., away from your civilians, and not in residential neighborhoods, mosques, schools, shelters, etc.

Simple.


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> "11. The Committee notes with increased concern that Israeli society maintains Jewish and non-Jewish sectors, which raises issues under article 3 of the Convention. Clarifications
> provided by the delegation confirmed the Committee’s concerns in relation to the existence
> of two systems of education, one in Hebrew and one in Arabic, which except in rare
> circumstances remain impermeable and inaccessible to the other community, as well as
> separate municipalities: Jewish municipalities and the so-called “municipalities of the
> minorities”. The enactment of the Admissions Committees Law (2011), which gives private
> committees full discretion to reject applicants deemed “unsuitable to the social life of the community”, is a clear sign that the concerns as regards segregation remain pressing..."Apartheid, pure and simple.


Funny drivel. But, of course, palisimians want to have a jew-free palistan and to live anywhere in Israel. Funny, funny drivel, indeed.


----------



## Phoenall

pbel said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not up to the UN as to when the occupation ends, it is all down to the palestinians abiding with the UN resolutions. They will find they wont be able to fool the UN the way they fool you and the other stooges. They will fail to keep to the "living side by side with Israel in peace and security" there are no treaties or UN resolutions that say the borders will be based of the 1967 ceasefire lines. THEY WERE NEVER BORDERS AND WERE NEVER SEEN AS SUCH BY THE UN
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Broken Record by a robotic puppet.
Click to expand...




 Then produce the evidence of any 1967 borders agreed by the Palestinians, Israelis, Egyptians and Jordanians.


----------



## Phoenall

pbel said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not up to the UN as to when the occupation ends, it is all down to the palestinians abiding with the UN resolutions. They will find they wont be able to fool the UN the way they fool you and the other stooges. They will fail to keep to the "living side by side with Israel in peace and security" there are no treaties or UN resolutions that say the borders will be based of the 1967 ceasefire lines. THEY WERE NEVER BORDERS AND WERE NEVER SEEN AS SUCH BY THE UN
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Broken Record by a robotic puppet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *What atrocities?* And what can the limp dicked UN do about it? They can't even stick around to fight when terrorists sneeze.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just the murder of 1700 Civilians with women and children...18,000 homes demolished by bombing, with only one Israeli civilian dead with the Hamas rockets...
> 
> Tell us while ya'll smacking your lips at those numbers: do ya'll go to church or synagogue and thank a gawd?
Click to expand...




 Lets see under International Law hamas should not have used civilian areas to fire at Israel, they should have evacuated the civilians from the area until after the fighting. Also they were in breach of the law for forcing civilians to be human shields. At the end of the day International law lays the blame for the deaths at the feet of hamas not Israel, so they are the mass murderers and the ones who caused the destruction of the houses in gaza. How many civilian deaths and homes destroyed would there have been if hamas engaged Israel from the 50% of the land that is uninhabited ?


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PBel must be losing his marbles.  Thread title says "The World Is Sick Of Israel Attrocities."  And yet in his post, the links only show that the Palestinians are pissed with Israel.  Oh well, want another VICTORY, keep them rocket missiles comin' boys.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "The Economist raises the specter of "delegitimization" — of Europe losing its conviction in Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state as long as the current conditions persist. "Gone are the days when Israel, with its _kibbutzim_, was a darling of idealistic young Europeans," says the Economist. "Faded, too, the idea of Israel as vulnerable and poor, encircled by massed armies."
> 
> How Israel is losing Europe - The Washington Post
Click to expand...




 Written by an ISLAMONAZO PROPAGANDIST so hardly a valid outlook...................... keep trying muslim one day you might get it right.


----------



## Phoenall

pbel said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PBel must be losing his marbles.  Thread title says "The World Is Sick Of Israel Attrocities."  And yet in his post, the links only show that the Palestinians are pissed with Israel.  Oh well, want another VICTORY, keep them rocket missiles comin' boys.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *World grows tired of Israel crying wolf – When it's the wolf ...*
> www.veteranstoday.com/.../*world*-grows-*tired-of-israel*-crying-wolf-whe...
> 
> Cached
> Similar
> Feb 27, 2014 - _*World*_ grows _*tired of Israel*_ crying wolf – When it's the wolf ... _*Crimes*_ Against Humanity in _*Israel*_ not only carries no social stigma,but is the ...
Click to expand...





 Another JEW HATING NAZI group with muslims pulling the strings


----------



## Phoenall

pbel said:


> _Patrick Willis_
> 
> March 3, 2014 - 11:20 pm
> Fantastic. Crystal clear, concise precis that paints the bleak picture the entire globe faces right now. Seemingly, there is no way out of this maze.
> 
> stevor
> March 2, 2014 - 9:55 pm
> The main problem that I see is that the vast majority of the people have no clue that 90% of the Israel inhabitants, the AshkeNAZI jews are NOT even Semites (though they love to cry “anti-Semitism” when attacked. Look up in Genesis or wikipedia “Ashkenaz”, the ancestor of the AshkeNAZI (Khazar) jews and you’ll see that they’re descendants of Japheth. Semites are descendants of Isaac or Ishmael!
> When the AshkeNAZIs are seen as FRAUDS, maybe people will start to question more about them.
> 
> 
> I Clower
> March 1, 2014 - 12:02 pm
> The world grows tired of Israel, from A to Z.
> The world grows tired of Israel’s arrogance, belligerence, cavilling, destruction, exploitation, foreign lobbies, garrulousness, hypocrisy, intel. ops, Jewish supremacism, killing of innocents, licentiousness, murderousness, nuclear “secrets”, oppression of Palestinians, perversions of truth, quarreling, revisionism, sophistry, Talmudism, usury, vengefulness, wars, xenophobia, yammering, Zionism.
> Yes, the world grows tired of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> DaveE
> March 1, 2014 - 10:58 pm
> Talmudism? Is that a word? I love it, regardless. Says all you need to know about the pack o’ lies called Judaism and “the Jews”. Pure historical and “religious” fiction, from start to (hopefully very painful) finish.
> 
> Curmudgeon
> March 1, 2014 - 8:43 am
> Contined…
> Any threat, whether African, Asian, or European will be attacked. Events in the Ukraine are about attacking the Russian threat of technical assistance to Iran and placement of Russian weapons in Syria. Weapons that could smash Israeli conventional weapons capability in minutes, and shoot down their nuclear arsenal within a minute of launch.
> Russia recognizes the wolf, or more appropriately the mad dog, and the danger it poses. Zionist occupied NATO countries are the problem, not the solution.
> 
> 
> Curmudgeon
> March 1, 2014 - 8:35 am
> Mr. Dean,
> At the risk of seeming to go off topic, I offer the following
> The Shah had invaded Iraq to reclaim the Shat-al-Arab waterway. Once the Shah stated on “60 minutes” that the Jewish lobby had too much influence in Washington, he became unreliable and his days were numbered. Khomeni became the USA’s vehicle to eliminate the Shah, but became unreliable immediately. Iran initiated border skirmishes with Iraq. Saddam, who was becoming unreliable, was goaded by the USA to retaliate and invade Iran to remove the unreliable Khomeni. It was doomed to fail as Iran was always a larger military power. Both Iran and Iraq were gassing each other, which was fine by Israel and the USA. The higher the body count, the better to carry out
> *read more ...*
> 
> 
> 
> stephanaugust
> March 1, 2014 - 11:08 am
> “… Once the Shah stated on “60 minutes” that the Jewish lobby had too much influence in Washington …”
> Thank you for this info.
> gerryhiles
> March 1, 2014 - 8:37 pm
> Excellent input mate.
> 
> Bente
> February 28, 2014 - 11:19 pm
> Ukraine has been a good lesson as both US and EU have been very overt in what they have been and are doing, and there are eye and ear WITNESSES to all that so when they now lie about it and warn of Russian aggression…. it illustrate the modus operandi of US and EU’s regime change how its done how it is then “legalised” and so on. The signature has been not only revealed but has been confirmed. And we can go back in recent history maybe just the 100 years to beginning of WW1 1914, and go though every episode and get the signature confirmed. …. the good thing is that we are not in 1914 but in 2014 and there are countries that were weak then and are strong now to mention the most obvious … Russia, China and Iran that is this side of the pond…
> *read more ...*






 See above..................time you found a better source for your DRIVEL


----------



## Phoenall

pbel said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> PBel must be losing his marbles.  .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The obsession with Jews and general level of paranoia exhibited by ANY these relentless antisemites is indicative of some level of disturbance.
> 
> I think what makes antisemitism click with so many deranged people is that there is always an imaginary  conspiracy to explain all their problems in dealing with the world, and it is legitimized by the fact that it is so formulaic, thus making it a shared experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Obsession with Jews my ass! According to you Israeli suck-offs is the whole fucking world is anti-Semitic and refuse to see that the atrocities of killing basically un-armed people and stealing their ancestral lands is a laughing matter to you ZioNazis!
> 
> Anti-Semitism my ass!*
Click to expand...




 There ancestral lands were never in Palestine as the records show, even Winny told the house of commons that the majority were illegal immigrants back in 1939.


----------



## montelatici

"There ancestral lands were never in Palestine as the records show, even Winny told the house of commons that the majority were illegal immigrants back in 1939.[/QUOTE]

Let's see how your bullshit differs from the official record.  taking the period from 1922 through 1937.  As per the Report of the Mandatory in 1937.

Oh dear, the total increase in population through immigration was 281,339 and the Jewish part of that increase was 245,433, the Muslim part was 25,168 and the Christian part was 10,414.  Isn't it discouraging that while you yap bullshit, I provide source documentation. 



6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--







_All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
of population
Increase by
migration
Natural
increase631,272

281,339

349,933286,770

25,168

261,602302,294

245,433

56,86138,305

10,414

27,8913,903

324

3,579
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]... - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937


----------



## ChrisL

montelatici said:


> "There ancestral lands were never in Palestine as the records show, even Winny told the house of commons that the majority were illegal immigrants back in 1939.



Let's see how your bullshit differs from the official record.  taking the period from 1922 through 1937.  As per the Report of the Mandatory in 1937.

Oh dear, the total increase in population through immigration was 281,339 and the Jewish part of that increase was 245,433, the Muslim part was 25,168 and the Christian part was 10,414.  Isn't it discouraging that while you yap bullshit, I provide source documentation.



6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--






_All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
of population
Increase by
migration
Natural
increase631,272

281,339

349,933286,770

25,168

261,602302,294

245,433

56,86138,305

10,414

27,8913,903

324

3,579
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]... - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937 [/QUOTE]

Israel should take the Gaza strip back and push those "palestinians" into Egypt.  That's what they are really anyways.  The are Egyptians and Jordanians.  None of those people alive today that refer to themselves as "palestinians" have any right to the land they occupy.  Israel won it fair and square, but they gave that land to those savage beasts.  I think they are being TOO nice.  They should get rid of those POS once and for all IMO.


----------



## ChrisL

Penelope said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Youch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The world is not sick of a nation and people defending themselves, attempting to exist.  They are sick from tolerating hatred and misinformation, largely born from apathy and ignorance.
> 
> What would you have them do?  Lay down their arms and succumb to genocide?
> 
> Or should they all pack up and move away, once again, as they did when the Romans banished them from their land in 70AD, and move where?  To your area?  I suspect you would not tolerate that, either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree.  It's certainly not ISRAEL that I'm tired of, but I am sick of almost ALL of the other middle eastern countries which are a thorn in the side of every single civilized nation on earth!!  They and their actions absolutely disgust me.  They are just uncivilized, ignorant, uneducated savages for the most part, also brainwashed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently you didn't follow the Protective Edge massacre?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> TBH, I don't really care.  I see the Muslim religion and the middle eastern countries (with the exception of Israel and perhaps a COUPLE others who are more secular) as being the biggest problem in our world today.
> 
> I still think we would be better off if we went over there, carpet bombed the place, and took over.  We can call it Middle America!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh goodie another Zionist who is ok with genocide. You people are unbelievable.
Click to expand...


Killing terrorist scum is not genocide.  It's doing good work.


----------



## ChrisL

Those ignorant savages couldn't run a country anyways.  They've been given plenty of opportunity and help to make a go at it, yet they continually fail because there are too many Muslims among them and not enough secular beliefs.  Palestine should be incorporated into Israel, and the pallys should become Israelis.    That would be the BEST solution.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

toastman said:


> Funny how you call Israel an Apartheid state



 It is a pretty easy matter to determine any poster's level intelligence by the way they parrot language. Unintelligent people simply parrot a bunch of buzz phrases created for them, while intelligent people look past the framing mechanisms to see what is actually happening. 

In my experience, the least intelligent lefties prattle on about "Imperialism", "Colonialism", "Apartheid", "Bantustans", and  whatnot because they simply cannot discuss from the standpoint of understanding issues and so resort to the use of a string of stupid buzz terms, instead.  They are the counterpart to the equally unintelligent portion of the right whose fundamentalism is just as rigid, but is based upon religion. Make no mistake, though, this idiotic support for terrorist b.s. IS the religion of those who infest message boards so as to spread their gospel of hate.

 There are many intelligent people on the right. There are many intelligent people on the left. The discussions tend to be dominated by the unintelligent leftists, though, as they reduce the discussion to a propaganda war based upon moronic framing mechanisms, disingenuous equivalencies, and blind allegiance to the talking points created by those whose mission it is to destroy an entire people.


----------



## montelatici

ChrisL said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "There ancestral lands were never in Palestine as the records show, even Winny told the house of commons that the majority were illegal immigrants back in 1939.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see how your bullshit differs from the official record.  taking the period from 1922 through 1937.  As per the Report of the Mandatory in 1937.
> 
> Oh dear, the total increase in population through immigration was 281,339 and the Jewish part of that increase was 245,433, the Muslim part was 25,168 and the Christian part was 10,414.  Isn't it discouraging that while you yap bullshit, I provide source documentation.
> 
> 
> 
> 6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]... - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
Click to expand...


Israel should take the Gaza strip back and push those "palestinians" into Egypt.  That's what they are really anyways.  The are Egyptians and Jordanians.  None of those people alive today that refer to themselves as "palestinians" have any right to the land they occupy.  Israel won it fair and square, but they gave that land to those savage beasts.  I think they are being TOO nice.  They should get rid of those POS once and for all IMO.[/QUOTE]

How do you "win" land "fair and square" without contravening the Geneva Convention?  The Jewish savages came from Europe invaded the land.


----------



## ChrisL

montelatici said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "There ancestral lands were never in Palestine as the records show, even Winny told the house of commons that the majority were illegal immigrants back in 1939.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see how your bullshit differs from the official record.  taking the period from 1922 through 1937.  As per the Report of the Mandatory in 1937.
> 
> Oh dear, the total increase in population through immigration was 281,339 and the Jewish part of that increase was 245,433, the Muslim part was 25,168 and the Christian part was 10,414.  Isn't it discouraging that while you yap bullshit, I provide source documentation.
> 
> 
> 
> 6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]... - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel should take the Gaza strip back and push those "palestinians" into Egypt.  That's what they are really anyways.  The are Egyptians and Jordanians.  None of those people alive today that refer to themselves as "palestinians" have any right to the land they occupy.  Israel won it fair and square, but they gave that land to those savage beasts.  I think they are being TOO nice.  They should get rid of those POS once and for all IMO.
Click to expand...


How do you "win" land "fair and square" without contravening the Geneva Convention?  The Jewish savages came from Europe invaded the land.[/QUOTE]

No, the French and Brits already had control of that "territory."  They gave it to Israel, who in turn was attacked, yet beat incredible odds to win and maintain their hold on their land.  Why they would ever have agreed to give up the Gaza strip to those monsters, I don't know.  They should throw them all out and take it back, and never negotiate with the scum again.  If they see them, they should shoot first and ask questions later.    That's how you handle that kind of POS scum.  They will stop with their terror tactics eventually, and then there can be peace, because we all know that Israel just wants to exist in peace.


----------



## montelatici

How can Europeans "give" land that is inhabited by indigenous people to other Europeans?  That's a crazy concept.  The Muslims and Christians attacked no one.  They were simply resisting the European takeover of their land and homes.  The Christians and Muslims were unsuccessful in defending themselves from the Jewish savages but they certainly had every right to defend themselves.

Eventually there will be peace through demographic changes as happened in South Africa and Rhodesia.


----------



## Penelope

ChrisL said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Youch said:
> 
> 
> 
> The world is not sick of a nation and people defending themselves, attempting to exist.  They are sick from tolerating hatred and misinformation, largely born from apathy and ignorance.
> 
> What would you have them do?  Lay down their arms and succumb to genocide?
> 
> Or should they all pack up and move away, once again, as they did when the Romans banished them from their land in 70AD, and move where?  To your area?  I suspect you would not tolerate that, either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree.  It's certainly not ISRAEL that I'm tired of, but I am sick of almost ALL of the other middle eastern countries which are a thorn in the side of every single civilized nation on earth!!  They and their actions absolutely disgust me.  They are just uncivilized, ignorant, uneducated savages for the most part, also brainwashed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently you didn't follow the Protective Edge massacre?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> TBH, I don't really care.  I see the Muslim religion and the middle eastern countries (with the exception of Israel and perhaps a COUPLE others who are more secular) as being the biggest problem in our world today.
> 
> I still think we would be better off if we went over there, carpet bombed the place, and took over.  We can call it Middle America!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh goodie another Zionist who is ok with genocide. You people are unbelievable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Killing terrorist scum is not genocide.  It's doing good work.
Click to expand...


In that case kill the terrorist scum that runs Israel that commits genocide without a second thought.


----------



## ChrisL

montelatici said:


> How can Europeans "give" land that is inhabited by indigenous people to other Europeans?  That's a crazy concept.  The Muslims and Christians attacked no one.  They were simply resisting the European takeover of their land and homes.  The Christians and Muslims were unsuccessful in defending themselves from the Jewish savages but they certainly had every right to defend themselves.
> 
> Eventually there will be peace through demographic changes as happened in South Africa and Rhodesia.



Hello?  History?  They had maintained control of a lot of middle eastern territories following World War I.  

British Mandate for Palestine legal instrument - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## ChrisL

Penelope said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree.  It's certainly not ISRAEL that I'm tired of, but I am sick of almost ALL of the other middle eastern countries which are a thorn in the side of every single civilized nation on earth!!  They and their actions absolutely disgust me.  They are just uncivilized, ignorant, uneducated savages for the most part, also brainwashed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently you didn't follow the Protective Edge massacre?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> TBH, I don't really care.  I see the Muslim religion and the middle eastern countries (with the exception of Israel and perhaps a COUPLE others who are more secular) as being the biggest problem in our world today.
> 
> I still think we would be better off if we went over there, carpet bombed the place, and took over.  We can call it Middle America!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh goodie another Zionist who is ok with genocide. You people are unbelievable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Killing terrorist scum is not genocide.  It's doing good work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In that case kill the terrorist scum that runs Israel that commits genocide without a second thought.
Click to expand...


No, because they are not "terrorist scum."  They are defending themselves from the terrorist scum though.  I fully support them in their endeavor, as does anyone familiar with the history of the ME and it's volatility and the savages inability to govern themselves efficiently or effectively.


----------



## Kondor3

Penelope said:


> ...In that case kill the terrorist scum that runs Israel that commits genocide without a second thought.


In that case, don't fuss when you've given the Israelis the excuse they need in the eyes of the world, to wipe you out, once and for all.

The Israelis do not commit genocide.

They are merely engaged in a long-term campaign to force Palestinians off their few remaining scraps of land.

The Palestinians may end-up having to pack, and leave, but at least they'll be alive, once they've moved to Jordan or Lebanon.

On the other hand, the Palestinians have long-since sworn to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean.

The latter sounds much more like the stereotypical, classical definition of 'genocide' than any land-squeezing at-issue here.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> "There ancestral lands were never in Palestine as the records show, even Winny told the house of commons that the majority were illegal immigrants back in 1939.



Let's see how your bullshit differs from the official record.  taking the period from 1922 through 1937.  As per the Report of the Mandatory in 1937.

Oh dear, the total increase in population through immigration was 281,339 and the Jewish part of that increase was 245,433, the Muslim part was 25,168 and the Christian part was 10,414.  Isn't it discouraging that while you yap bullshit, I provide source documentation.



6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--






_All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
of population
Increase by
migration
Natural
increase631,272

281,339

349,933286,770

25,168

261,602302,294

245,433

56,86138,305

10,414

27,8913,903

324

3,579
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]... - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937 [/QUOTE]




 Not a valid document as it was written by a group of ANTI SEMITIC JEW HATERS. The fact that Winny stood up in the house of commons and declared that the majority of arab muslims were illegal immigrants, and he should know as he was there at the time.


----------



## Penelope

ChrisL said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently you didn't follow the Protective Edge massacre?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TBH, I don't really care.  I see the Muslim religion and the middle eastern countries (with the exception of Israel and perhaps a COUPLE others who are more secular) as being the biggest problem in our world today.
> 
> I still think we would be better off if we went over there, carpet bombed the place, and took over.  We can call it Middle America!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh goodie another Zionist who is ok with genocide. You people are unbelievable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Killing terrorist scum is not genocide.  It's doing good work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In that case kill the terrorist scum that runs Israel that commits genocide without a second thought.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, because they are not "terrorist scum."  They are defending themselves from the terrorist scum though.  I fully support them in their endeavor, as does anyone familiar with the history of the ME and it's volatility and the savages inability to govern themselves efficiently or effectively.
Click to expand...


That's a matter of perspective isn't it.  I see Hamas as defending itself and standing up for what is right. Actual people live in Palestine, kids , families,

 I have been watching this crap for over 24 years and it gets old. What the US did to Iraq with its sanctions and then the war was horrible, and the Arab Spring was another invention to change all the people in charge. We might have worries from Iran  but Iran has never attacked anther country , but we sure have interfered  in theirs for the last 70 years.  Israel is what is wrong with the ME, and their Zionist people in our gov. and think tanks who  think its our duty to defend Israel against the enemies they make and the enemies they claim they have. Now its Syria.

Why is the IDF not in fighting ISIS in Syria?


----------



## ChrisL

Penelope said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> TBH, I don't really care.  I see the Muslim religion and the middle eastern countries (with the exception of Israel and perhaps a COUPLE others who are more secular) as being the biggest problem in our world today.
> 
> I still think we would be better off if we went over there, carpet bombed the place, and took over.  We can call it Middle America!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh goodie another Zionist who is ok with genocide. You people are unbelievable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Killing terrorist scum is not genocide.  It's doing good work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In that case kill the terrorist scum that runs Israel that commits genocide without a second thought.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, because they are not "terrorist scum."  They are defending themselves from the terrorist scum though.  I fully support them in their endeavor, as does anyone familiar with the history of the ME and it's volatility and the savages inability to govern themselves efficiently or effectively.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a matter of perspective isn't it.  I see Hamas as defending itself and standing up for what is right. Actual people live in Palestine, kids , families,
> 
> I have been watching this crap for over 24 years and it gets old. What the US did to Iraq with its sanctions and then the war was horrible, and the Arab Spring was another invention to change all the people in charge. We might have worries from Iran  but Iran has never attacked anther country , but we sure have interfered  in theirs for the last 70 years.  Israel is what is wrong with the ME, and their Zionist people in our gov. and think tanks who  think its our duty to defend Israel against the enemies they make and the enemies they claim they have. Now its Syria.
> 
> Why is the IDF not in fighting ISIS in Syria?
Click to expand...


A lot of those kids are also terrorists and wouldn't hesitate to kill.  That's what they are taught from the time they are babes, to hate and kill.  I've no empathy for the terrorists, none whatsoever.  The ONLY reason why I care at all about them is because they are such pieces of crap that are a thorn in EVERYONE'S sides in the world.


----------



## ChrisL

I think Egypt should take in the Palestinians refuges once Israel banishes them from the region, and perhaps Egypt would be kind enough to give them some land too.  They have PLENTY to spare.  

Bottom line, Israel is NOT going anywhere, and they are more powerful than the inhabitants of Gaza.  Period and end of story.  

Egypt - Location and size Territories and dependencies Climate Topographic regions Oceans and seas


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "There ancestral lands were never in Palestine as the records show, even Winny told the house of commons that the majority were illegal immigrants back in 1939.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see how your bullshit differs from the official record.  taking the period from 1922 through 1937.  As per the Report of the Mandatory in 1937.
> 
> Oh dear, the total increase in population through immigration was 281,339 and the Jewish part of that increase was 245,433, the Muslim part was 25,168 and the Christian part was 10,414.  Isn't it discouraging that while you yap bullshit, I provide source documentation.
> 
> 
> 
> 6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]... - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel should take the Gaza strip back and push those "palestinians" into Egypt.  That's what they are really anyways.  The are Egyptians and Jordanians.  None of those people alive today that refer to themselves as "palestinians" have any right to the land they occupy.  Israel won it fair and square, but they gave that land to those savage beasts.  I think they are being TOO nice.  They should get rid of those POS once and for all IMO.
Click to expand...


How do you "win" land "fair and square" without contravening the Geneva Convention?  The Jewish savages came from Europe invaded the land.[/QUOTE]



 very easy if you look at the date of the Geneva conventions and realise that they did not come into force until after the declaration of independence. so the Israelis won the land fair and square and they had a better claim to the whole of Palestine than the any arab muslims ever could have. You see the legal land owners gave the whole of Palestine to the Jewish people OF THE WORLD as their RESURECTED NATIONAL HOME, they did not give it to the arab muslims who had no legal claim since they lost the land in 1099.


----------



## Kondor3

ChrisL said:


> I think Egypt should take in the Palestinians refuges once Israel banishes them from the region, and perhaps Egypt would be kind enough to give them some land too.  They have PLENTY to spare.
> 
> Bottom line, Israel is NOT going anywhere, and they are more powerful than the inhabitants of Gaza.  Period and end of story.
> 
> Egypt - Location and size Territories and dependencies Climate Topographic regions Oceans and seas


The Egyptians could always carve-off a slice of the Sinai and give that to the Palestinians, instead.

Either as nation-state buffer between Egypt and Israel, or as a semi-autonomous Palestinian Province of Egypt.

Heck, I bet that much of the world would be happy to help pay for relocation, setting them up with infrastructure, and helping them for a couple of decades to get a fresh start, if it meant an end to all that squabbling over a tiny sliver of land that the Jews of Israel are going to get in the end anyway.

That would save a whole lot of wasted time and energy and lives and blood and treasure.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> How can Europeans "give" land that is inhabited by indigenous people to other Europeans?  That's a crazy concept.  The Muslims and Christians attacked no one.  They were simply resisting the European takeover of their land and homes.  The Christians and Muslims were unsuccessful in defending themselves from the Jewish savages but they certainly had every right to defend themselves.
> 
> Eventually there will be peace through demographic changes as happened in South Africa and Rhodesia.





 Customary International law that says the legal land owners who won the land as a result of war can dispose of said land as they see fit. The arab muslims received Jordan, Syria and Iraq the Jews received Palestine.   The arab muslims in Israel are declining in numbers so the demographics are against them. The arab muslims in Palestine will soon hit saturation point and nature will take over, then we will see famine and disease start to wipe them out starting with gaza.


----------



## ChrisL

Kondor3 said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Egypt should take in the Palestinians refuges once Israel banishes them from the region, and perhaps Egypt would be kind enough to give them some land too.  They have PLENTY to spare.
> 
> Bottom line, Israel is NOT going anywhere, and they are more powerful than the inhabitants of Gaza.  Period and end of story.
> 
> Egypt - Location and size Territories and dependencies Climate Topographic regions Oceans and seas
> 
> 
> 
> The Egyptians could always carve-off a slice of the Sinai and give that to the Palestinians, instead.
> 
> Either as nation-state buffer between Egypt and Israel, or as a semi-autonomous Palestinian Province of Egypt.
> 
> Heck, I bet that much of the world would be happy to help pay for relocation, setting them up with infrastructure, and helping them for a couple of decades to get a fresh start, if it meant an end to all that squabbling over a tiny sliver of land that the Jews of Israel are going to get in the end anyway.
> 
> That would save a whole lot of wasted time and energy and lives and blood and treasure.
Click to expand...


It SOUNDS good, but they would probably just fail and find somebody to blame for their failures and continue on with their savage ways.


----------



## ChrisL

Kondor3 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...In that case kill the terrorist scum that runs Israel that commits genocide without a second thought.
> 
> 
> 
> In that case, don't fuss when you've given the Israelis the excuse they need in the eyes of the world, to wipe you out, once and for all.
> 
> The Israelis do not commit genocide.
> 
> They are merely engaged in a long-term campaign to force Palestinians off their few remaining scraps of land.
> 
> The Palestinians may end-up having to pack, and leave, but at least they'll be alive, once they've moved to Jordan or Lebanon.
> 
> On the other hand, the Palestinians have long-since sworn to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean.
> 
> The latter sounds much more like the stereotypical, classical definition of 'genocide' than any land-squeezing at-issue here.
Click to expand...


Penelope is another ignorant uneducated  terrorist sympathizer, obviously.  

Genocide is mentioned in the Hamas charter.  Genocide of the Jewish people is mentioned SEVERAL times actually.


----------



## Daniyel

Pbel every once in a while goes with a thread like "The World is.. " and bad stuff against Israel...anything else?


----------



## Phoenall

Penelope said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree.  It's certainly not ISRAEL that I'm tired of, but I am sick of almost ALL of the other middle eastern countries which are a thorn in the side of every single civilized nation on earth!!  They and their actions absolutely disgust me.  They are just uncivilized, ignorant, uneducated savages for the most part, also brainwashed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently you didn't follow the Protective Edge massacre?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> TBH, I don't really care.  I see the Muslim religion and the middle eastern countries (with the exception of Israel and perhaps a COUPLE others who are more secular) as being the biggest problem in our world today.
> 
> I still think we would be better off if we went over there, carpet bombed the place, and took over.  We can call it Middle America!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh goodie another Zionist who is ok with genocide. You people are unbelievable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Killing terrorist scum is not genocide.  It's doing good work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In that case kill the terrorist scum that runs Israel that commits genocide without a second thought.
Click to expand...





 Not genocide to defend against terrorist bombing that is protected by human shields. As for genocide wiping out  90 % of an indigenous people in genocide and that is what the Palestinians have done to the Christians in Palestine.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Penelope said:


> In that case kill the terrorist scum that runs Israel that commits genocide without a second thought.



Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier if you simply asked your parents to get you on a program of therapy and anti-psychotics so you would stop having these ridiculous delusions?

Risperdal seems especially effective for the young.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ChrisL said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "There ancestral lands were never in Palestine as the records show, even Winny told the house of commons that the majority were illegal immigrants back in 1939.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see how your bullshit differs from the official record.  taking the period from 1922 through 1937.  As per the Report of the Mandatory in 1937.
> 
> Oh dear, the total increase in population through immigration was 281,339 and the Jewish part of that increase was 245,433, the Muslim part was 25,168 and the Christian part was 10,414.  Isn't it discouraging that while you yap bullshit, I provide source documentation.
> 
> 
> 
> 6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]... - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel should take the Gaza strip back and push those "palestinians" into Egypt.  That's what they are really anyways.  The are Egyptians and Jordanians.  None of those people alive today that refer to themselves as "palestinians" have any right to the land they occupy.  Israel won it fair and square, but they gave that land to those savage beasts.  I think they are being TOO nice.  They should get rid of those POS once and for all IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How do you "win" land "fair and square" without contravening the Geneva Convention?  The Jewish savages came from Europe invaded the land.
Click to expand...


No, the French and Brits already had control of that "territory."  They gave it to Israel, who in turn was attacked, yet beat incredible odds to win and maintain their hold on their land.  Why they would ever have agreed to give up the Gaza strip to those monsters, I don't know.  They should throw them all out and take it back, and never negotiate with the scum again.  If they see them, they should shoot first and ask questions later.    That's how you handle that kind of POS scum.  They will stop with their terror tactics eventually, and then there can be peace, because we all know that Israel just wants to exist in peace.[/QUOTE]
*"They gave it to Israel,"*

*Could you document that?*


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> How can Europeans "give" land that is inhabited by indigenous people to other Europeans?  That's a crazy concept.  The Muslims and Christians attacked no one.  They were simply resisting the European takeover of their land and homes.  The Christians and Muslims were unsuccessful in defending themselves from the Jewish savages but they certainly had every right to defend themselves.
> 
> Eventually there will be peace through demographic changes as happened in South Africa and Rhodesia.



You fuckin idiot. Did you not read Rocco's post showing all the attacks and massacres against Jews before Israel even became a state??
It was only AFTER these attacks that Haganah and Irgun were created. 
Then there were the attacks diring the civil war and Arab Israeli war.
You're a liar and your posts should not be taken seriously


----------



## ChrisL

P F Tinmore said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "There ancestral lands were never in Palestine as the records show, even Winny told the house of commons that the majority were illegal immigrants back in 1939.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see how your bullshit differs from the official record.  taking the period from 1922 through 1937.  As per the Report of the Mandatory in 1937.
> 
> Oh dear, the total increase in population through immigration was 281,339 and the Jewish part of that increase was 245,433, the Muslim part was 25,168 and the Christian part was 10,414.  Isn't it discouraging that while you yap bullshit, I provide source documentation.
> 
> 
> 
> 6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]... - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel should take the Gaza strip back and push those "palestinians" into Egypt.  That's what they are really anyways.  The are Egyptians and Jordanians.  None of those people alive today that refer to themselves as "palestinians" have any right to the land they occupy.  Israel won it fair and square, but they gave that land to those savage beasts.  I think they are being TOO nice.  They should get rid of those POS once and for all IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How do you "win" land "fair and square" without contravening the Geneva Convention?  The Jewish savages came from Europe invaded the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the French and Brits already had control of that "territory."  They gave it to Israel, who in turn was attacked, yet beat incredible odds to win and maintain their hold on their land.  Why they would ever have agreed to give up the Gaza strip to those monsters, I don't know.  They should throw them all out and take it back, and never negotiate with the scum again.  If they see them, they should shoot first and ask questions later.    That's how you handle that kind of POS scum.  They will stop with their terror tactics eventually, and then there can be peace, because we all know that Israel just wants to exist in peace.
Click to expand...

*"They gave it to Israel,"*

*Could you document that?*[/QUOTE]

Hello?  I already did in the links I provided.  READ them please.


----------



## ChrisL

May as well post this here, so that you all can see just what the terrorists think about finding a "peaceful" solution.  This is their own words.  HEED them, foolish mortals!   

Palestine Center - The Charter of the Hamas

*Article Thirteen: Peaceful Solutions, [Peace] Initiatives and International Conferences[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad: “Allah is the all-powerful, but most people are not aware.” From time to time a clamoring is voiced, to hold an International Conference in search for a solution to the problem. Some accept the idea, others reject it, for one reason or another, demanding the implementation of this or that condition, as a prerequisite for agreeing to convene the Conference or for participating in it. But the Islamic Resistance Movement, which is aware of the [prospective] parties to this conference, and of their past and present positions towards the problems of the Muslims, does not believe that those conferences are capable of responding to demands, or of restoring rights or doing justice to the oppressed. Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the nonbelievers as arbitrators in the lands of Islam. Since when did the Unbelievers do justice to the Believers? “And the Jews will not be pleased with thee, nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed. Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah [himself] is the Guidance. And if you should follow their desires after the knowledge which has come unto thee, then you would have from Allah no protecting friend nor helper.” Sura 2 (the Cow), verse 120 There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. The initiatives, proposals and International Conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility. The Palestinian people are too noble to have their future, their right and their destiny submitted to a vain game. As the hadith has it: “The people of Syria are Allah’s whip on this land; He takes revenge by their intermediary from whoever he wished among his worshipers. The Hypocrites among them are forbidden from vanquishing the true believers, and they will die in anxiety and sorrow.” (Told by Tabarani, who is traceable in ascending order of traditionaries to Muhammad, and by Ahmed whose chain of transmission is incomplete. But it is bound to be a true hadith, for both story tellers are reliable. Allah knows best.)*


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can Europeans "give" land that is inhabited by indigenous people to other Europeans?  That's a crazy concept.  The Muslims and Christians attacked no one.  They were simply resisting the European takeover of their land and homes.  The Christians and Muslims were unsuccessful in defending themselves from the Jewish savages but they certainly had every right to defend themselves.
> 
> Eventually there will be peace through demographic changes as happened in South Africa and Rhodesia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You fuckin idiot.* Did you not read Rocco's post showing all the attacks and massacres against Jews before Israel even became a state??*
> It was only AFTER these attacks that Haganah and Irgun were created.
> Then there were the attacks diring the civil war and Arab Israeli war.
> You're a liar and your posts should not be taken seriously
Click to expand...

We did.

All that was after Britain occupied Palestine with the Balfour declaration in its pocket and began colonizing Palestine on the behalf of the foreign Zionists.

The Palestinians resisted colonization then as they resist it now.


----------



## Hossfly

Penelope said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, really pbel?  Your post #15 just links mostly to a bunch of peoples opinions posted to an article that is not the subject of this thread's OP.
> 
> My world is sick and tired of you folks trying to shove down my throat that the world hates the U.S. and Israel.  Sure there are some who hate; like mostly Muslim extremists.
> 
> If Abbas is really trying to lead the Palestinians, he should call for elections; they are WAY overdue and then step the fuck aside and let's see what the real rank and file Palestinians want.  I bet it's peace and not a bunch more sabre rattling.
> 
> 
> 
> The last election brought Hamas to power...I think most Israelis would also choose peace...share Jerusalem, land swap for the settlements and live in peace.
> 
> I support that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Anything except sharing Jerusalem. That's the City of David, not ....and Abdul.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its not King Davids anymore and hasn't been for a centuries . (if King David even existed)
Click to expand...

Ya don't say!


----------



## P F Tinmore

ChrisL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "There ancestral lands were never in Palestine as the records show, even Winny told the house of commons that the majority were illegal immigrants back in 1939.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see how your bullshit differs from the official record.  taking the period from 1922 through 1937.  As per the Report of the Mandatory in 1937.
> 
> Oh dear, the total increase in population through immigration was 281,339 and the Jewish part of that increase was 245,433, the Muslim part was 25,168 and the Christian part was 10,414.  Isn't it discouraging that while you yap bullshit, I provide source documentation.
> 
> 
> 
> 6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]... - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel should take the Gaza strip back and push those "palestinians" into Egypt.  That's what they are really anyways.  The are Egyptians and Jordanians.  None of those people alive today that refer to themselves as "palestinians" have any right to the land they occupy.  Israel won it fair and square, but they gave that land to those savage beasts.  I think they are being TOO nice.  They should get rid of those POS once and for all IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How do you "win" land "fair and square" without contravening the Geneva Convention?  The Jewish savages came from Europe invaded the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the French and Brits already had control of that "territory."  They gave it to Israel, who in turn was attacked, yet beat incredible odds to win and maintain their hold on their land.  Why they would ever have agreed to give up the Gaza strip to those monsters, I don't know.  They should throw them all out and take it back, and never negotiate with the scum again.  If they see them, they should shoot first and ask questions later.    That's how you handle that kind of POS scum.  They will stop with their terror tactics eventually, and then there can be peace, because we all know that Israel just wants to exist in peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *"They gave it to Israel,"*
> 
> *Could you document that?*
Click to expand...


Hello?  I already did in the links I provided.  READ them please.  [/QUOTE]
I don't recall seeing any documents of Britain transferring any land to Israel.


----------



## ChrisL

P F Tinmore said:


> I don't recall seeing any documents of Britain transferring any land to Israel.



That's because you didn't read the links, obviously.  Google it for yourself.  I've already supplied PLENTY of data here.

Besides, if you are NOT aware of that fact, then I feel sorry for you.  That's pretty darn sad.

Edit:  I was trying to fix this quote since SOME people are too lazy to fix their own crap, but I can't get rid of the extra quotes.  When I try to delete them, they reappear each time.  This is the last time I'm going to try and fix this.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ChrisL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall seeing any documents of Britain transferring any land to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's because you didn't read the links, obviously.  Google it for yourself.  I've already supplied PLENTY of data here.
> 
> Besides, if you are NOT aware of that fact, then I feel sorry for you.  That's pretty darn sad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I've seen a lot of "say so" but no documents.


----------



## ChrisL

P F Tinmore said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall seeing any documents of Britain transferring any land to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's because you didn't read the links, obviously.  Google it for yourself.  I've already supplied PLENTY of data here.
> 
> Besides, if you are NOT aware of that fact, then I feel sorry for you.  That's pretty darn sad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've seen a lot of "say so" but no documents.
Click to expand...


WTF is wrong with you?  You don't know history?


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> PBel must be losing his marbles.  .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The obsession with Jews and general level of paranoia exhibited by ANY these relentless antisemites is indicative of some level of disturbance.
> 
> I think what makes antisemitism click with so many deranged people is that there is always an imaginary  conspiracy to explain all their problems in dealing with the world, and it is legitimized by the fact that it is so formulaic, thus making it a shared experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Obsession with Jews my ass! According to you Israeli suck-offs is the whole fucking world is anti-Semitic and refuse to see that the atrocities of killing basically un-armed people and stealing their ancestral lands is a laughing matter to you ZioNazis!
> 
> Anti-Semitism my ass!*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There ancestral lands were never in Palestine as the records show, even Winny told the house of commons *that the majority were illegal immigrants back in 1939.*
Click to expand...


The "majority" were not "illegal immigrants" - time for that meme to be put to rest.  Even given the notoriously inexact data - the highest estimate for "illegal" Arab immigration is well below any "majority".  There was also Jewish immigration, both legal and illegal.  The Palestinians have as much "ancestral rights" as the Jews do to Palestine.

MidEast Web - Population of Palestine


----------



## P F Tinmore

ChrisL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall seeing any documents of Britain transferring any land to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's because you didn't read the links, obviously.  Google it for yourself.  I've already supplied PLENTY of data here.
> 
> Besides, if you are NOT aware of that fact, then I feel sorry for you.  That's pretty darn sad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've seen a lot of "say so" but no documents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTF is wrong with you?  You don't know history?
Click to expand...

Sure I do, and I have never seen any document showing Britain transferring any land to Israel.


----------



## Penelope

ChrisL said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...In that case kill the terrorist scum that runs Israel that commits genocide without a second thought.
> 
> 
> 
> In that case, don't fuss when you've given the Israelis the excuse they need in the eyes of the world, to wipe you out, once and for all.
> 
> The Israelis do not commit genocide.
> 
> They are merely engaged in a long-term campaign to force Palestinians off their few remaining scraps of land.
> 
> The Palestinians may end-up having to pack, and leave, but at least they'll be alive, once they've moved to Jordan or Lebanon.
> 
> On the other hand, the Palestinians have long-since sworn to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean.
> 
> The latter sounds much more like the stereotypical, classical definition of 'genocide' than any land-squeezing at-issue here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Penelope is another ignorant uneducated  terrorist sympathizer, obviously.
> 
> Genocide is mentioned in the Hamas charter.  Genocide of the Jewish people is mentioned SEVERAL times actually.
Click to expand...


They are not following their charter, haven't you heard the news. Listen to your PM Bibi and we should of been blown up by the nukes he predicted in the early 1990, Israel is the country spreading false propaganda and has been for years.


----------



## ChrisL

P F Tinmore said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall seeing any documents of Britain transferring any land to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's because you didn't read the links, obviously.  Google it for yourself.  I've already supplied PLENTY of data here.
> 
> Besides, if you are NOT aware of that fact, then I feel sorry for you.  That's pretty darn sad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've seen a lot of "say so" but no documents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTF is wrong with you?  You don't know history?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure I do, and I have never seen any document showing Britain transferring any land to Israel.
Click to expand...


It tells all about it in the link.  Sorry if you are incapable of reading comprehension, but I can't help you with that.


----------



## Penelope

ChrisL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall seeing any documents of Britain transferring any land to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's because you didn't read the links, obviously.  Google it for yourself.  I've already supplied PLENTY of data here.
> 
> Besides, if you are NOT aware of that fact, then I feel sorry for you.  That's pretty darn sad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've seen a lot of "say so" but no documents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTF is wrong with you?  You don't know history?
Click to expand...


Your the one who is clueless about history. Perhaps its you who can't understand what you read.


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> PBel must be losing his marbles.  .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The obsession with Jews and general level of paranoia exhibited by ANY these relentless antisemites is indicative of some level of disturbance.
> 
> I think what makes antisemitism click with so many deranged people is that there is always an imaginary  conspiracy to explain all their problems in dealing with the world, and it is legitimized by the fact that it is so formulaic, thus making it a shared experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Obsession with Jews my ass! According to you Israeli suck-offs is the whole fucking world is anti-Semitic and refuse to see that the atrocities of killing basically un-armed people and stealing their ancestral lands is a laughing matter to you ZioNazis!
> 
> Anti-Semitism my ass!*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There ancestral lands were never in Palestine as the records show, even Winny told the house of commons *that the majority were illegal immigrants back in 1939.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The "majority" were not "illegal immigrants" - time for that meme to be put to rest.  Even given the notoriously inexact data - the highest estimate for "illegal" Arab immigration is well below any "majority".  There was also Jewish immigration, both legal and illegal.  The Palestinians have as much "ancestral rights" as the Jews do to Palestine.
> 
> MidEast Web - Population of Palestine
Click to expand...


No, they don't have any rights.  The land was partitioned and given to the Israels by the Brits (who owned the territory by mandate) after the first world war.  

Let's put this religious ancestral rights crap to bed for good and focus on why Israel has the land today in modern times.  It is because the country who owned the territory at the time, partitioned it in this way.


----------



## ChrisL

Penelope said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall seeing any documents of Britain transferring any land to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's because you didn't read the links, obviously.  Google it for yourself.  I've already supplied PLENTY of data here.
> 
> Besides, if you are NOT aware of that fact, then I feel sorry for you.  That's pretty darn sad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've seen a lot of "say so" but no documents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTF is wrong with you?  You don't know history?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your the one who is clueless about history. Perhaps its you who can't understand what they read.
Click to expand...


Nope, go back and read the links.  All of the information that he asked for is there.  It explains the entire history of the Middle East, you ignorant terrorist.


----------



## ChrisL

Penelope said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...In that case kill the terrorist scum that runs Israel that commits genocide without a second thought.
> 
> 
> 
> In that case, don't fuss when you've given the Israelis the excuse they need in the eyes of the world, to wipe you out, once and for all.
> 
> The Israelis do not commit genocide.
> 
> They are merely engaged in a long-term campaign to force Palestinians off their few remaining scraps of land.
> 
> The Palestinians may end-up having to pack, and leave, but at least they'll be alive, once they've moved to Jordan or Lebanon.
> 
> On the other hand, the Palestinians have long-since sworn to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean.
> 
> The latter sounds much more like the stereotypical, classical definition of 'genocide' than any land-squeezing at-issue here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Penelope is another ignorant uneducated  terrorist sympathizer, obviously.
> 
> Genocide is mentioned in the Hamas charter.  Genocide of the Jewish people is mentioned SEVERAL times actually.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are not following their charter, haven't you heard the news. Listen to your PM Bibi and *we should of been blown up by the nukes he predicted in the early 1990*, Israel is the country spreading false propaganda and has been for years.
Click to expand...


Hopefully they rectify that error sooner rather than later!!!    That probably would have best for everyone.


----------



## ChrisL

This brings me back round to why don't the Palestinians attack the Brits?  It's because they are ignorant cowards and bigots.


----------



## ChrisL

This also makes me wonder what would the ME be like if Israel was not there.  It is the ONE country over there that actually has stability and makes important contributions to the world.  The ME would be even MORE of a garbage dump than it is now without Israel being there.  

And does anyone think that the Islamists would be satisfied then?  I doubt it.  They would just start fighting with someone else or amongst themselves.  In a lot of ME countries, they are very much like primitive cavemen with their own "tribes" and they live by tribal law with MUCH infighting and "honor" killing going on.   

How much LONGER do we have to wait for these savages to join us here in the "new" world?


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> PBel must be losing his marbles.  .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The obsession with Jews and general level of paranoia exhibited by ANY these relentless antisemites is indicative of some level of disturbance.
> 
> I think what makes antisemitism click with so many deranged people is that there is always an imaginary  conspiracy to explain all their problems in dealing with the world, and it is legitimized by the fact that it is so formulaic, thus making it a shared experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Obsession with Jews my ass! According to you Israeli suck-offs is the whole fucking world is anti-Semitic and refuse to see that the atrocities of killing basically un-armed people and stealing their ancestral lands is a laughing matter to you ZioNazis!
> 
> Anti-Semitism my ass!*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There ancestral lands were never in Palestine as the records show, even Winny told the house of commons *that the majority were illegal immigrants back in 1939.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The "majority" were not "illegal immigrants" - time for that meme to be put to rest.  Even given the notoriously inexact data - the highest estimate for "illegal" Arab immigration is well below any "majority".  There was also Jewish immigration, both legal and illegal.  The Palestinians have as much "ancestral rights" as the Jews do to Palestine.
> 
> MidEast Web - Population of Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, they don't have any rights.  The land was partitioned and given to the Israels by the Brits (who owned the territory by mandate) after the first world war.
Click to expand...


Yes, they do have rights.  As the indiginous people, occupying that land when it was "partitioned".  They absolutely have rights.



> *Let's put this religious ancestral rights crap to bed for good* and focus on why Israel has the land today in modern times.  It is because the country who owned the territory at the time, partitioned it in this way.



Absolutely agree.  The events of thousands years ago or even WW1...now almost a century ago..have no rational bearing on modern rights.

The reality on the ground is this:

Israel exists, it's not going anywhere, so deal with it.

The Palestinians exist, they aren't going anywhere, so deal with it.

Right now, the Jews have achieved their state, and it has blossomed.

It is time for their Arab neighbors to accept this and acknowledge it.

It is also time for another wrong to be righted: the Palestinian people's right to self-determination needs to be recognized in the form of a state.  The Arabs need to quit using them as a paws for their own political ends and get serious about pressuring Palestinian leadership to recognize Israel and Israel needs to stop it's policy of land theft and settlement building.  Neither side is going to get the entire territory and I don't think one state is a feasable solution, too much hate and distrust on both sides.  So...start with 1967 borders, and negotiate landswaps...maybe.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> This brings me back round to why don't the Palestinians attack the Brits?  It's because they are ignorant cowards and bigots.



What would be the point?


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> The obsession with Jews and general level of paranoia exhibited by ANY these relentless antisemites is indicative of some level of disturbance.
> 
> I think what makes antisemitism click with so many deranged people is that there is always an imaginary  conspiracy to explain all their problems in dealing with the world, and it is legitimized by the fact that it is so formulaic, thus making it a shared experience.
> 
> 
> 
> *Obsession with Jews my ass! According to you Israeli suck-offs is the whole fucking world is anti-Semitic and refuse to see that the atrocities of killing basically un-armed people and stealing their ancestral lands is a laughing matter to you ZioNazis!
> 
> Anti-Semitism my ass!*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There ancestral lands were never in Palestine as the records show, even Winny told the house of commons *that the majority were illegal immigrants back in 1939.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The "majority" were not "illegal immigrants" - time for that meme to be put to rest.  Even given the notoriously inexact data - the highest estimate for "illegal" Arab immigration is well below any "majority".  There was also Jewish immigration, both legal and illegal.  The Palestinians have as much "ancestral rights" as the Jews do to Palestine.
> 
> MidEast Web - Population of Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, they don't have any rights.  The land was partitioned and given to the Israels by the Brits (who owned the territory by mandate) after the first world war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, they do have rights.  As the indiginous people, occupying that land when it was "partitioned".  They absolutely have rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Let's put this religious ancestral rights crap to bed for good* and focus on why Israel has the land today in modern times.  It is because the country who owned the territory at the time, partitioned it in this way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely agree.  The events of thousands years ago or even WW1...now almost a century ago..have no rational bearing on modern rights.
> 
> The reality on the ground is this:
> 
> Israel exists, it's not going anywhere, so deal with it.
> 
> The Palestinians exist, they aren't going anywhere, so deal with it.
> 
> Right now, the Jews have achieved their state, and it has blossomed.
> 
> It is time for their Arab neighbors to accept this and acknowledge it.
> 
> It is also time for another wrong to be righted: the Palestinian people's right to self-determination needs to be recognized in the form of a state.  The Arabs need to quit using them as a paws for their own political ends and get serious about pressuring Palestinian leadership to recognize Israel and Israel needs to stop it's policy of land theft and settlement building.  Neither side is going to get the entire territory and I don't think one state is a feasable solution, too much hate and distrust on both sides.  So...start with 1967 borders, and negotiate landswaps...maybe.
Click to expand...


Wrong.  The legal partitioning of the land is completely relevant.  The so-called "palestinians" (which everyone know is MADE UP by the Egyptians - the "palestinians" are nothing but Egyptian/Jordanian nomads - LOL), have no "rights" to Gaza or any of the land that Israel occupies.  

Israel WON additional land when Egypt tried to attack her.  Israel is under NO obligation to give up any land to the Egyptians/palestinians.  They attacked Israel over the land, and they lost . . . badly.  They will LOSE this time too, and it is their own fault.


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This brings me back round to why don't the Palestinians attack the Brits?  It's because they are ignorant cowards and bigots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What would be the point?
Click to expand...


That is who is responsible for their current predicament, right?  I think it's wonderful that Israel is there in the ME to keep a little bit of sanity amongst the insane and brainwashed over in the middle east.  They contribute good things to the world and are good people.  I think they should push the palestinians into Egypt and let Egypt deal with them.  They are a creation of the Egyptians anyways.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Obsession with Jews my ass! According to you Israeli suck-offs is the whole fucking world is anti-Semitic and refuse to see that the atrocities of killing basically un-armed people and stealing their ancestral lands is a laughing matter to you ZioNazis!
> 
> Anti-Semitism my ass!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There ancestral lands were never in Palestine as the records show, even Winny told the house of commons *that the majority were illegal immigrants back in 1939.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The "majority" were not "illegal immigrants" - time for that meme to be put to rest.  Even given the notoriously inexact data - the highest estimate for "illegal" Arab immigration is well below any "majority".  There was also Jewish immigration, both legal and illegal.  The Palestinians have as much "ancestral rights" as the Jews do to Palestine.
> 
> MidEast Web - Population of Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, they don't have any rights.  The land was partitioned and given to the Israels by the Brits (who owned the territory by mandate) after the first world war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, they do have rights.  As the indiginous people, occupying that land when it was "partitioned".  They absolutely have rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Let's put this religious ancestral rights crap to bed for good* and focus on why Israel has the land today in modern times.  It is because the country who owned the territory at the time, partitioned it in this way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely agree.  The events of thousands years ago or even WW1...now almost a century ago..have no rational bearing on modern rights.
> 
> The reality on the ground is this:
> 
> Israel exists, it's not going anywhere, so deal with it.
> 
> The Palestinians exist, they aren't going anywhere, so deal with it.
> 
> Right now, the Jews have achieved their state, and it has blossomed.
> 
> It is time for their Arab neighbors to accept this and acknowledge it.
> 
> It is also time for another wrong to be righted: the Palestinian people's right to self-determination needs to be recognized in the form of a state.  The Arabs need to quit using them as a paws for their own political ends and get serious about pressuring Palestinian leadership to recognize Israel and Israel needs to stop it's policy of land theft and settlement building.  Neither side is going to get the entire territory and I don't think one state is a feasable solution, too much hate and distrust on both sides.  So...start with 1967 borders, and negotiate landswaps...maybe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.  *The legal partitioning of the land is completely relevant*.  The so-called "palestinians" (which everyone know is MADE UP by the Egyptians - the "palestinians" are nothing but Egyptian/Jordanian nomads - LOL), have no "rights" to Gaza or any of the land that Israel occupies.
Click to expand...


Which legal partitioning - there have been multiple ones - do you get to pick and choose?

It doesn't matter what you call the Palestinians.  The name might have been a recent term but the people have existed there for much longer.  This is a typical argument made for the sole purpose of diminishing the rights of a people.


> Israel WON additional land when Egypt tried to attack her.  Israel is under NO obligation to give up any land to the Egyptians/palestinians.  They attacked Israel over the land, and they lost . . . badly.  They will LOSE this time too, and it is their own fault.



Seems to me that if Israel wishes to be part of the international community then it needs to abide by agreed upon codes - laws that Israel itself is perfectly willing to use when needed.  But - say that you are right, if someone gains land in war, they are a llowed to keep it.  So, they keep Westbank and Gaza, that gives them an extra 4.4 million citizens but messes up the demographics.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This brings me back round to why don't the Palestinians attack the Brits?  It's because they are ignorant cowards and bigots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What would be the point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is who is responsible for their current predicament, right?  I think it's wonderful that Israel is there in the ME to keep a little bit of sanity amongst the insane and brainwashed over in the middle east.  They contribute good things to the world and are good people.  I think they should push the palestinians into Egypt and let Egypt deal with them.  They are a creation of the Egyptians anyways.
Click to expand...


So you support ethnic cleansing even though many of them are indiginous the Palestine?


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> There ancestral lands were never in Palestine as the records show, even Winny told the house of commons *that the majority were illegal immigrants back in 1939.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The "majority" were not "illegal immigrants" - time for that meme to be put to rest.  Even given the notoriously inexact data - the highest estimate for "illegal" Arab immigration is well below any "majority".  There was also Jewish immigration, both legal and illegal.  The Palestinians have as much "ancestral rights" as the Jews do to Palestine.
> 
> MidEast Web - Population of Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, they don't have any rights.  The land was partitioned and given to the Israels by the Brits (who owned the territory by mandate) after the first world war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, they do have rights.  As the indiginous people, occupying that land when it was "partitioned".  They absolutely have rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Let's put this religious ancestral rights crap to bed for good* and focus on why Israel has the land today in modern times.  It is because the country who owned the territory at the time, partitioned it in this way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely agree.  The events of thousands years ago or even WW1...now almost a century ago..have no rational bearing on modern rights.
> 
> The reality on the ground is this:
> 
> Israel exists, it's not going anywhere, so deal with it.
> 
> The Palestinians exist, they aren't going anywhere, so deal with it.
> 
> Right now, the Jews have achieved their state, and it has blossomed.
> 
> It is time for their Arab neighbors to accept this and acknowledge it.
> 
> It is also time for another wrong to be righted: the Palestinian people's right to self-determination needs to be recognized in the form of a state.  The Arabs need to quit using them as a paws for their own political ends and get serious about pressuring Palestinian leadership to recognize Israel and Israel needs to stop it's policy of land theft and settlement building.  Neither side is going to get the entire territory and I don't think one state is a feasable solution, too much hate and distrust on both sides.  So...start with 1967 borders, and negotiate landswaps...maybe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.  *The legal partitioning of the land is completely relevant*.  The so-called "palestinians" (which everyone know is MADE UP by the Egyptians - the "palestinians" are nothing but Egyptian/Jordanian nomads - LOL), have no "rights" to Gaza or any of the land that Israel occupies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which legal partitioning - there have been multiple ones - do you get to pick and choose?
> 
> It doesn't matter what you call the Palestinians.  The name might have been a recent term but the people have existed there for much longer.  This is a typical argument made for the sole purpose of diminishing the rights of a people.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel WON additional land when Egypt tried to attack her.  Israel is under NO obligation to give up any land to the Egyptians/palestinians.  They attacked Israel over the land, and they lost . . . badly.  They will LOSE this time too, and it is their own fault.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seems to me that if Israel wishes to be part of the international community then it needs to abide by agreed upon codes - laws that Israel itself is perfectly willing to use when needed.  But - say that you are right, if someone gains land in war, they are a llowed to keep it.  So, they keep Westbank and Gaza, that gives them an extra 4.4 million citizens but messes up the demographics.
Click to expand...


Are you kidding me?  Israel should tell the international community to screw.  Israel has to worry about HER citizens.  That is the priority for Israel.  Like it or not, if the "pallys" don't stop with their terrorist tactics, they will more than likely be wiped out.  

Israel should push them back into Egypt where they should be.  Israel has done many, many acts of kindness and good for those ingrates, and whenever they TRY to treat them like human beings, they pay a price for it.  I don't blame them one bit.  They would be STUPID to listen to the likes of you.


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This brings me back round to why don't the Palestinians attack the Brits?  It's because they are ignorant cowards and bigots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What would be the point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is who is responsible for their current predicament, right?  I think it's wonderful that Israel is there in the ME to keep a little bit of sanity amongst the insane and brainwashed over in the middle east.  They contribute good things to the world and are good people.  I think they should push the palestinians into Egypt and let Egypt deal with them.  They are a creation of the Egyptians anyways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you support ethnic cleansing even though many of them are indiginous the Palestine?
Click to expand...


Ethnic cleansing?  No.  War?  Yes.  The act of lobbing bombs into Israel is an act of war that should be taken seriously when you are a country with citizens who matter to you.  

Should they hold back?  No, they should not.  They should hit them with everything they can.  Maybe THEN they will stop.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ChrisL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall seeing any documents of Britain transferring any land to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've seen a lot of "say so" but no documents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTF is wrong with you?  You don't know history?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure I do, and I have never seen any document showing Britain transferring any land to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It tells all about it in the link.  Sorry if you are incapable of reading comprehension, but I can't help you with that.
Click to expand...

I could not find your link where Britain transferred land to Israel as you stated.


> No, the French and Brits already had control of that "territory." They gave it to Israel,



However I did find this in your link:


> The mandate was a legal and administrative instrument, *not a geographical territory.*


Britain had no land to give away.


----------



## Kondor3

Penelope said:


> ...They are not following their charter...


The point is not that they are not (temporarily, for convenience and public relations sake) following their charter...

The point is that it was in the charter in the first place...

The point is the vicious, savage mindset that would put genocide into a charter in the first place...

A renunciation of an element of their charter is all well and good...

But do you really think people are naive enough to believe such a renunciation on the part of minds that (1) fashioned that element in the first place and (2) have no trouble with the idea of lying to nonbelievers?

Puh-leeeze.

Who do you think you're kidding?

Nobody above the age of 10, that's for sure.


----------



## teddyearp

Penelope said:


> Apparently you didn't follow the Protective Edge massacre?



Blah, blah, blah.  I am sick and tired of this bullshit.  I've said it before and I'll say it again.

So, it is 'resistance' and 'war' when Hamas fires rockets and mortars from Gaza into Israel, but 'murder' and 'massacre' when Israel fights back.

Such pure and blatant hypocrisy.


----------



## teddyearp

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what the supporters of Apartheid South Africa said too. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> What with the garbage state the SA is now. One must hate africans to promote that "struggle" against "apartheid".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you are an Apartheid supporter.  I knew it, just wanted confirmation.  No wonder you support Israel, today's Apartheid state.
Click to expand...


Keep twisting every thing into a tiny pretzel Sara, it is doing well for you. . . . .


----------



## Kondor3

teddyearp said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently you didn't follow the Protective Edge massacre?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blah, blah, blah.  I am sick and tired of this bullshit.  I've said it before and I'll say it again.
> 
> So, it is 'resistance' and 'war' when Hamas fires rockets and mortars from Gaza into Israel, but 'murder' and 'massacre' when Israel fights back.
> 
> Such pure and blatant hypocrisy.
Click to expand...

True.

But it never ceases to amaze me, how easy it is to point that out, and how broadly that is accepted by the public, yet these propaganda shills keep pitching a failed line of thought.

Not exactly indicative of high-order intellectual functioning, is it?


----------



## teddyearp

Penelope said:


> How can we be all wrong when everyday more and more people are agreeing with us:
> *Columbia, Harvard, Yale anthropologists among 360 backing boycott of Israel*



I expect that those in the U.S. "Higher Education" to continue the leftist brainwash with their 'enlightenment'. When I was younger, I should have gone to college, I could have; but for some reason I just couldn't get into it.  I felt that there was something wrong with it.

Later, as I progressed through the college of Life, I have learned why.


----------



## montelatici

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Obsession with Jews my ass! According to you Israeli suck-offs is the whole fucking world is anti-Semitic and refuse to see that the atrocities of killing basically un-armed people and stealing their ancestral lands is a laughing matter to you ZioNazis!
> 
> Anti-Semitism my ass!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There ancestral lands were never in Palestine as the records show, even Winny told the house of commons *that the majority were illegal immigrants back in 1939.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The "majority" were not "illegal immigrants" - time for that meme to be put to rest.  Even given the notoriously inexact data - the highest estimate for "illegal" Arab immigration is well below any "majority".  There was also Jewish immigration, both legal and illegal.  The Palestinians have as much "ancestral rights" as the Jews do to Palestine.
> 
> MidEast Web - Population of Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, they don't have any rights.  The land was partitioned and given to the Israels by the Brits (who owned the territory by mandate) after the first world war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, they do have rights.  As the indiginous people, occupying that land when it was "partitioned".  They absolutely have rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Let's put this religious ancestral rights crap to bed for good* and focus on why Israel has the land today in modern times.  It is because the country who owned the territory at the time, partitioned it in this way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely agree.  The events of thousands years ago or even WW1...now almost a century ago..have no rational bearing on modern rights.
> 
> The reality on the ground is this:
> 
> Israel exists, it's not going anywhere, so deal with it.
> 
> The Palestinians exist, they aren't going anywhere, so deal with it.
> 
> Right now, the Jews have achieved their state, and it has blossomed.
> 
> It is time for their Arab neighbors to accept this and acknowledge it.
> 
> It is also time for another wrong to be righted: the Palestinian people's right to self-determination needs to be recognized in the form of a state.  The Arabs need to quit using them as a paws for their own political ends and get serious about pressuring Palestinian leadership to recognize Israel and Israel needs to stop it's policy of land theft and settlement building.  Neither side is going to get the entire territory and I don't think one state is a feasable solution, too much hate and distrust on both sides.  So...start with 1967 borders, and negotiate landswaps...maybe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.  The legal partitioning of the land is completely relevant.  The so-called "palestinians" (which everyone know is MADE UP by the Egyptians - the "palestinians" are nothing but Egyptian/Jordanian nomads - LOL), have no "rights" to Gaza or any of the land that Israel occupies.
> 
> Israel WON additional land when Egypt tried to attack her.  Israel is under NO obligation to give up any land to the Egyptians/palestinians.  They attacked Israel over the land, and they lost . . . badly.  They will LOSE this time too, and it is their own fault.
Click to expand...


"The so-called "palestinians" (which everyone know is MADE UP by the Egyptians - the "palestinians" are nothing but Egyptian/Jordanian nomads - LOL),"

Only ignorant brainwashed idiots "know" or believe the Zionist propaganda.  The Palestinians are and have always been the Christians and Muslims that lived in Palestine since Roman times.  Just because some converted to Islam does not make them any less Palestinian.

The Jews were European colonists, and will eventually end up like European colonists in places where the Europeans were not able to destroy the indigenous people.  Algeria, Rhodesia, South Africa etc.


----------



## teddyearp

Penelope said:


> “If a foreign power had launched 1,000 rockets into America, we would be pulling the gates of the White House _down_,” said Hagee. “Let Israel finish the job. Let every rocket be dismantled. Let every tunnel be destroyed.”



Thanks Penelope, this is a parallel that I have posted many times.  If someone were to launch 100, 500, 1,000 or 2,000, or 2,500 rockets and mortars into the U.S., we would *crush them.* So I think it's pretty cool that Israel showed some restraint . . . . .


----------



## montelatici

If the U.S. were blockaded and Americans were forced to live under occupation, Americans would fire rockets and anything else they could find at the occupier.


----------



## Kondor3

"Palestine" - a failed country-wannabe that never truly got off the ground; a 'thing'
that evaporated faster and faster in ever-diminishing circles, until eventually
it disappeared up its own arsehole - vanishing like a fart in the wind, leaving
behind nothing of value but a bad memory and a stink, and missed by very few...







Tick... tick... tick...


----------



## teddyearp

montelatici said:


> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]... - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937



So how is it that the 'Moslems' outbred the Jews and Christians by almost 200%, Sara?  That is what 'natural increase' means isn't it?  I call foul and say that your source is wrong, very wrong.  Any thinking person can look at this and see the same.


----------



## teddyearp

montelatici said:


> <snip>The Muslims<snip> attacked no one.



Hmm, really?


----------



## teddyearp

Penelope said:


> That's a matter of perspective isn't it.  I see Hamas as defending itself and standing up for what is right.



Yet when Israel defends itself, it is called 'murder', massacre', and 'genocide'.


----------



## teddyearp

ChrisL said:


> I think Egypt should take in the Palestinians refuges once Israel banishes them from the region, and perhaps *Egypt would be kind enough to give them some land too*.  They have PLENTY to spare.



Too bad that is was considered false that Egypt offered a part of the Sinai to the Gazans.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

montelatici said:


> If the U.S. were blockaded and Americans were forced to live under occupation, Americans would fire rockets and anything else they could find at the occupier.




You must think thunder causes lightning, so thoroughly do you reverse the cause with the effect here.


----------



## teddyearp

Daniyel said:


> Pbel every once in a while goes with a thread like "The World is.. " and bad stuff against Israel...anything else?



Good one Daniyel, good one.  To answer your question.  Nope not much else.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "majority" were not "illegal immigrants" - time for that meme to be put to rest.  Even given the notoriously inexact data - the highest estimate for "illegal" Arab immigration is well below any "majority".  There was also Jewish immigration, both legal and illegal.  The Palestinians have as much "ancestral rights" as the Jews do to Palestine.
> 
> MidEast Web - Population of Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they don't have any rights.  The land was partitioned and given to the Israels by the Brits (who owned the territory by mandate) after the first world war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, they do have rights.  As the indiginous people, occupying that land when it was "partitioned".  They absolutely have rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Let's put this religious ancestral rights crap to bed for good* and focus on why Israel has the land today in modern times.  It is because the country who owned the territory at the time, partitioned it in this way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely agree.  The events of thousands years ago or even WW1...now almost a century ago..have no rational bearing on modern rights.
> 
> The reality on the ground is this:
> 
> Israel exists, it's not going anywhere, so deal with it.
> 
> The Palestinians exist, they aren't going anywhere, so deal with it.
> 
> Right now, the Jews have achieved their state, and it has blossomed.
> 
> It is time for their Arab neighbors to accept this and acknowledge it.
> 
> It is also time for another wrong to be righted: the Palestinian people's right to self-determination needs to be recognized in the form of a state.  The Arabs need to quit using them as a paws for their own political ends and get serious about pressuring Palestinian leadership to recognize Israel and Israel needs to stop it's policy of land theft and settlement building.  Neither side is going to get the entire territory and I don't think one state is a feasable solution, too much hate and distrust on both sides.  So...start with 1967 borders, and negotiate landswaps...maybe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.  *The legal partitioning of the land is completely relevant*.  The so-called "palestinians" (which everyone know is MADE UP by the Egyptians - the "palestinians" are nothing but Egyptian/Jordanian nomads - LOL), have no "rights" to Gaza or any of the land that Israel occupies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which legal partitioning - there have been multiple ones - do you get to pick and choose?
> 
> It doesn't matter what you call the Palestinians.  The name might have been a recent term but the people have existed there for much longer.  This is a typical argument made for the sole purpose of diminishing the rights of a people.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel WON additional land when Egypt tried to attack her.  Israel is under NO obligation to give up any land to the Egyptians/palestinians.  They attacked Israel over the land, and they lost . . . badly.  They will LOSE this time too, and it is their own fault.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seems to me that if Israel wishes to be part of the international community then it needs to abide by agreed upon codes - laws that Israel itself is perfectly willing to use when needed.  But - say that you are right, if someone gains land in war, they are a llowed to keep it.  So, they keep Westbank and Gaza, that gives them an extra 4.4 million citizens but messes up the demographics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you kidding me?  Israel should tell the international community to screw.  Israel has to worry about HER citizens.  That is the priority for Israel.  Like it or not, if the "pallys" don't stop with their terrorist tactics, they will more than likely be wiped out.
> 
> Israel should push them back into Egypt where they should be.  Israel has done many, many acts of kindness and good for those ingrates, and whenever they TRY to treat them like human beings, they pay a price for it.  I don't blame them one bit.  They would be STUPID to listen to the likes of you.
Click to expand...


hmmm...what's the difference then between "pushing them back into Egypt" and "pushing them into the sea"?

You are advocating Ethnic Cleansing of a people who have lived on that land for millenia.

Israel is no Angel either.


----------



## teddyearp

P F Tinmore said:


> *"They gave it to Israel,"*
> 
> *Could you document that?*



Could you refute that?  Without going around and around in your tiny little circles in your pretzel little mind, again?  Remember the *original* "Mandate for Palestine"?  More than half was given to the Arab/Muslim factions to create their own countries.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This brings me back round to why don't the Palestinians attack the Brits?  It's because they are ignorant cowards and bigots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What would be the point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is who is responsible for their current predicament, right?  I think it's wonderful that Israel is there in the ME to keep a little bit of sanity amongst the insane and brainwashed over in the middle east.  They contribute good things to the world and are good people. * I think they should push the palestinians into Egypt *and let Egypt deal with them.  They are a creation of the Egyptians anyways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you support ethnic cleansing even though many of them are indiginous the Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing?  No.  War?  Yes.  The act of lobbing bombs into Israel is an act of war that should be taken seriously when you are a country with citizens who matter to you.
> 
> Should they hold back?  No, they should not.  They should hit them with everything they can.  Maybe THEN they will stop.
Click to expand...


Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
*Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.


----------



## teddyearp

P F Tinmore said:


> All that was after Britain occupied Palestine with the Balfour declaration in its pocket and began colonizing Palestine on the behalf of the foreign Zionists.



Boy, do you ever need to re read your history lesson Tipmore.


----------



## Coyote

montelatici said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> There ancestral lands were never in Palestine as the records show, even Winny told the house of commons *that the majority were illegal immigrants back in 1939.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The "majority" were not "illegal immigrants" - time for that meme to be put to rest.  Even given the notoriously inexact data - the highest estimate for "illegal" Arab immigration is well below any "majority".  There was also Jewish immigration, both legal and illegal.  The Palestinians have as much "ancestral rights" as the Jews do to Palestine.
> 
> MidEast Web - Population of Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, they don't have any rights.  The land was partitioned and given to the Israels by the Brits (who owned the territory by mandate) after the first world war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, they do have rights.  As the indiginous people, occupying that land when it was "partitioned".  They absolutely have rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Let's put this religious ancestral rights crap to bed for good* and focus on why Israel has the land today in modern times.  It is because the country who owned the territory at the time, partitioned it in this way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely agree.  The events of thousands years ago or even WW1...now almost a century ago..have no rational bearing on modern rights.
> 
> The reality on the ground is this:
> 
> Israel exists, it's not going anywhere, so deal with it.
> 
> The Palestinians exist, they aren't going anywhere, so deal with it.
> 
> Right now, the Jews have achieved their state, and it has blossomed.
> 
> It is time for their Arab neighbors to accept this and acknowledge it.
> 
> It is also time for another wrong to be righted: the Palestinian people's right to self-determination needs to be recognized in the form of a state.  The Arabs need to quit using them as a paws for their own political ends and get serious about pressuring Palestinian leadership to recognize Israel and Israel needs to stop it's policy of land theft and settlement building.  Neither side is going to get the entire territory and I don't think one state is a feasable solution, too much hate and distrust on both sides.  So...start with 1967 borders, and negotiate landswaps...maybe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.  The legal partitioning of the land is completely relevant.  The so-called "palestinians" (which everyone know is MADE UP by the Egyptians - the "palestinians" are nothing but Egyptian/Jordanian nomads - LOL), have no "rights" to Gaza or any of the land that Israel occupies.
> 
> Israel WON additional land when Egypt tried to attack her.  Israel is under NO obligation to give up any land to the Egyptians/palestinians.  They attacked Israel over the land, and they lost . . . badly.  They will LOSE this time too, and it is their own fault.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "The so-called "palestinians" (which everyone know is MADE UP by the Egyptians - the "palestinians" are nothing but Egyptian/Jordanian nomads - LOL),"
> 
> Only ignorant brainwashed idiots "know" or believe the Zionist propaganda.  *The Palestinians are and have always been the Christians and Muslims that lived in Palestine since Roman times.  Just because some converted to Islam does not make them any less Palestinian.*
Click to expand...



This.



> *The Jews were European colonists*, and will eventually end up like European colonists in places where the Europeans were not able to destroy the indigenous people.  Algeria, Rhodesia, South Africa etc.



No.  Many of them are also indiginous to Palestine.

Immigration occurred on both sides.


----------



## teddyearp

P F Tinmore said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall seeing any documents of Britain transferring any land to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's because you didn't read the links, obviously.  Google it for yourself.  I've already supplied PLENTY of data here.
> 
> Besides, if you are NOT aware of that fact, then I feel sorry for you.  That's pretty darn sad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've seen a lot of "say so" but no documents.
Click to expand...


that's because we get sick and tired of posting the same links and documents over and over and over and over and over again.  Because once we do; suddenly you and your friends become silent in the thread they are posted in.  Because then you are too busy creating other threads which would then require the same links and documents to refute you B.S. lies.

But I have learned long ago that this is your tactic.  Once proven wrong, you do not admit, but move on.


----------



## teddyearp

ChrisL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall seeing any documents of Britain transferring any land to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've seen a lot of "say so" but no documents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTF is wrong with you?  You don't know history?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure I do, and I have never seen any document showing Britain transferring any land to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It tells all about it in the link.  Sorry if you are incapable of reading comprehension, but I can't help you with that.
Click to expand...


No ChrisL, you fully underestimate Tipmore's intelligence. He can read.  He can comprehend. And then he can make several posts, all intended to twist away from the facts, slowly (very slowly) but very surely.  He knows exactly what he is doing.


----------



## teddyearp

ChrisL said:


> This brings me back round to why don't the Palestinians attack the Brits?<snip>



You are starting to hit the nail on the head.


----------



## teddyearp

ChrisL said:


> This also makes me wonder what would the ME be like if Israel was not there.



I started one thread and posted in many others this very same thing.  If the Israeli's had never decided to re settle themselves in the Middle East; and especially the area called "Palestine", the Arabs and Muslims would not and could not care less about it: and especially Jerusalem.  It is only because the Jews were allowed to finally have a country of their own that this conflict has arose.

Otherwise, Jerusalem and Palestine would be just a tiny little backwater country.


----------



## teddyearp

Coyote said:


> Absolutely agree.  The events of thousands years ago or even WW1...now almost a century ago..have no rational bearing on modern rights.
> 
> The reality on the ground is this:
> 
> *Israel exists, it's not going anywhere, so deal with it.*
> 
> *The Palestinians exist, they aren't going anywhere, so deal with it.*
> 
> Right now, the Jews have achieved their state, and it has blossomed.
> 
> It is time for their Arab neighbors *to accept this and acknowledge it.*
> 
> It is also time for another wrong to be righted: the Palestinian people's right to self-determination needs to be recognized in the form of a state.  The Arabs *need to quit using them as a pawns for their own political ends *and get serious about pressuring Palestinian leadership to recognize Israel and Israel needs to stop it's policy of land theft and settlement building.  Neither side is going to get the entire territory and I don't think one state is a feasable solution, too much hate and distrust on both sides.  So...start with 1967 borders, and negotiate landswaps...maybe.



Yes, I agree as long as Israel gets to keep at least West Jerusalem.


----------



## teddyearp

P F Tinmore said:


> However I did find this in your link:
> 
> 
> 
> The mandate was a legal and administrative instrument, *not a geographical territory.*
> 
> 
> 
> Britain had no land to give away.
Click to expand...


Enter Tipmore's 'spin' zone . . . . .


----------



## Coyote

teddyearp said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This brings me back round to why don't the Palestinians attack the Brits?<snip>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are starting to hit the nail on the head.
Click to expand...


Not really.  What would be the point?  What would they gain?  No land.  No state. Nothing but a wasted battle with an entity that is geographically distant.


----------



## Coyote

teddyearp said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely agree.  The events of thousands years ago or even WW1...now almost a century ago..have no rational bearing on modern rights.
> 
> The reality on the ground is this:
> 
> *Israel exists, it's not going anywhere, so deal with it.*
> 
> *The Palestinians exist, they aren't going anywhere, so deal with it.*
> 
> Right now, the Jews have achieved their state, and it has blossomed.
> 
> It is time for their Arab neighbors *to accept this and acknowledge it.*
> 
> It is also time for another wrong to be righted: the Palestinian people's right to self-determination needs to be recognized in the form of a state.  The Arabs *need to quit using them as a pawns for their own political ends *and get serious about pressuring Palestinian leadership to recognize Israel and Israel needs to stop it's policy of land theft and settlement building.  Neither side is going to get the entire territory and I don't think one state is a feasable solution, too much hate and distrust on both sides.  So...start with 1967 borders, and negotiate landswaps...maybe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I agree as long as Israel gets to keep at least West Jerusalem.
Click to expand...


That would be part of the negotiation process...but if Israel should keep it, it's non-Jewish residents should not be evicted.


----------



## teddyearp

montelatici said:


> Only ignorant brainwashed idiots "know" or believe the Zionist propaganda.  The Palestinians are and have always been the Christians and Muslims that lived in Palestine since Roman times.



Sara, you are lacking in your knowledge.  Two points. First off, the nation of "Palestine" never existed.  Second off there were still Jews that lived in "Syria Philistina" since the Roman times.  But since AFAIK you have never visited Israel, you wouldn't have seen the ruins of the old synagogues built along side of the Roman temples in say, Sephoris, Be'it She'an and other places . . . .


----------



## Jroc

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This brings me back round to why don't the Palestinians attack the Brits?  It's because they are ignorant cowards and bigots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What would be the point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is who is responsible for their current predicament, right?  I think it's wonderful that Israel is there in the ME to keep a little bit of sanity amongst the insane and brainwashed over in the middle east.  They contribute good things to the world and are good people. * I think they should push the palestinians into Egypt *and let Egypt deal with them.  They are a creation of the Egyptians anyways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you support ethnic cleansing even though many of them are indiginous the Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing?  No.  War?  Yes.  The act of lobbing bombs into Israel is an act of war that should be taken seriously when you are a country with citizens who matter to you.
> 
> Should they hold back?  No, they should not.  They should hit them with everything they can.  Maybe THEN they will stop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
Click to expand...



No Jews in Gaza. They've been cleansed


----------



## teddyearp

montelatici said:


> If the U.S. were blockaded and Americans were forced to live under occupation, Americans would fire rockets and anything else they could find at the occupier.



Nice twist Sara. Let's put this twist into something else that you have posted about.  The 'First People'.  The Native Americans were blockaded and in some respects live under occupation.  *However, *they have assimilated, no actually they have thrived.

Had they decided to start firing rockets and mortars during the AIM mini revolt during the late seventies, well let us just say that it is a good thing that they didn't.  For the U.S. and the Natives.


----------



## asaratis

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> montelatici said:
> 
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> 
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> toastman said:
> 
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> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What with the garbage state the SA is now. One must hate africans to promote that "struggle" against "apartheid".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are an Apartheid supporter.  I knew it, just wanted confirmation.  No wonder you support Israel, today's Apartheid state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how you call Israel an Apartheid state wher you can't even point out where there is Apartheid inside  Israel proper.
> Your bullshit liss just keep on coming. Non stop bullshit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "The Jewish state (for so it identifies itself, after all) maintains a system of formal and informal housing segregation both in Israel and in the occupied territories. It's obvious, of course, that Jewish settlements in the West Bank aren't exactly bursting with Palestinians. In Israel itself, however, *hundreds of communities have been established for Jewish residents on land expropriated from Palestinians, in which segregation is maintained, for example, by admissions committees empowered to use ethnic criteria long since banned in the United States, or by the inability of Palestinian citizens to access land held exclusively for the Jewish people by the state-sanctioned Jewish National Fund.*
> 
> Jewish residents of the occupied territories enjoy various rights and privileges denied to their Palestinian neighbors. While the former enjoy the protections of Israeli civil law, the latter are subject to the harsh provisions of military law. So, while their Jewish neighbors come and go freely, West Bank Palestinians are subject to arbitrary arrest and detention, and to the denial of freedom of movement; they are frequently barred from access to educational or healthcare facilities, Christian and Muslim sites for religious worship, and so on."
> 
> Does the term apartheid fit Israel Of course it does. - LA Times
> 
> Meanwhile, Palestinian citizens of Israel must contend with about 50 state laws and bills that, according to the Palestinian-Israeli human rights organization Adalah, either privilege Jews or directly discriminate against the Palestinian minority. One of the key components of Israel's nationality law, the Law of Return, for example, applies to Jews only, and excludes Palestinians, including Palestinians born in what is now the state of Israel. While Jewish citizens can move back and forth without interdiction, Israeli law expressly bars Palestinian citizens from bringing spouses from the occupied territories to live with them in Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As I thought, you cannot prove there is apartheid in Israel proper.
> Jews and Arabs live side by side, work side by side, eat aide by side, move forward side by side. In Apartheid South Africa, Blacks were not allowed to do the above.
> Is there some discrimination against Arabs in Israel by the population? Absolutely, but every country has discrimination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Talk about an Orwellian response.  The article confirms that Israel practices Apartheid and you respond by claiming it doesn't.
> 
> "11. The Committee notes with increased concern that Israeli society maintains Jewish
> and non-Jewish sectors, which raises issues under article 3 of the Convention. Clarifications
> provided by the delegation confirmed the Committee’s concerns in relation to the existence
> of two systems of education, one in Hebrew and one in Arabic, which except in rare
> circumstances remain impermeable and inaccessible to the other community, as well as
> separate municipalities: Jewish municipalities and the so-called “municipalities of the
> minorities”. The enactment of the Admissions Committees Law (2011), which gives private
> committees full discretion to reject applicants deemed “unsuitable to the social life of the community”, is a clear sign that the concerns as regards segregation remain pressing..."
> 
> Apartheid, pure and simple.
> 
> http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/cerd/docs/CERD.C.ISR.CO.14-16.pdf
Click to expand...

Sorry, Charlie!  No cigar for you!


Middle-East-Info.org - Arabs and Muslims in Israel

*The freest Arabs, Christians, Jews and Muslims in Mideast are Israelis Even after the "Palestine Liberation Organization" got authority over 95% of the Arab Palestinian population in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, the more than one million Arab Palestinians in Israel chose to continue to live under Israeli sovereignty in the Jewish state of Israel rather than choosing to live under the all-too-unfortunate oppression which is the lot of their Arab and Muslim brothers throughout the Middle East. 77% of Israeli Arabs would even live nowhere else than in Israel.Moreover, millions of Arab Palestinian imagined "refugees" desire to "return" living in Israel.*


----------



## Jroc

Coyote said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely agree.  The events of thousands years ago or even WW1...now almost a century ago..have no rational bearing on modern rights.
> 
> The reality on the ground is this:
> 
> *Israel exists, it's not going anywhere, so deal with it.*
> 
> *The Palestinians exist, they aren't going anywhere, so deal with it.*
> 
> Right now, the Jews have achieved their state, and it has blossomed.
> 
> It is time for their Arab neighbors *to accept this and acknowledge it.*
> 
> It is also time for another wrong to be righted: the Palestinian people's right to self-determination needs to be recognized in the form of a state.  The Arabs *need to quit using them as a pawns for their own political ends *and get serious about pressuring Palestinian leadership to recognize Israel and Israel needs to stop it's policy of land theft and settlement building.  Neither side is going to get the entire territory and I don't think one state is a feasable solution, too much hate and distrust on both sides.  So...start with 1967 borders, and negotiate landswaps...maybe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I agree as long as Israel gets to keep at least West Jerusalem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That would be part of the negotiation process...*but if Israel should keep it, it's non-Jewish residents should not be evicted.*
Click to expand...



 They keep all of the Jewish city of Jerusalem the Arabs can stay as well if they want


----------



## teddyearp

Coyote said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This brings me back round to why don't the Palestinians attack the Brits?<snip>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are starting to hit the nail on the head.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not really.  What would be the point?  What would they gain?  No land.  No state. Nothing but a wasted battle with an entity that is geographically distant.
Click to expand...


And you are right.  I was only getting dragged into the 'old' history; which as you said is almost 100 years past now.  But my point was that ultimately the Brits were in charge when some of the Jews were allowed to repopulate, yet most here blame it all on the Jews.


----------



## Coyote

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
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> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
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> Coyote said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What would be the point?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is who is responsible for their current predicament, right?  I think it's wonderful that Israel is there in the ME to keep a little bit of sanity amongst the insane and brainwashed over in the middle east.  They contribute good things to the world and are good people. * I think they should push the palestinians into Egypt *and let Egypt deal with them.  They are a creation of the Egyptians anyways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you support ethnic cleansing even though many of them are indiginous the Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing?  No.  War?  Yes.  The act of lobbing bombs into Israel is an act of war that should be taken seriously when you are a country with citizens who matter to you.
> 
> Should they hold back?  No, they should not.  They should hit them with everything they can.  Maybe THEN they will stop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No Jews in Gaza. They've been cleansed
Click to expand...


*Israeli police* evicting Israeli *settlers *from Gaza after a unilateral withdrawal isn't exactly "ethnic cleansing".  Nice try though.

A better example might be the forced expulsion of Jews from certain Arab countries during the formation of Israel.


----------



## Jroc

Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
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> 
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> 
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> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
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> 
> Coyote said:
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> 
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> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is who is responsible for their current predicament, right?  I think it's wonderful that Israel is there in the ME to keep a little bit of sanity amongst the insane and brainwashed over in the middle east.  They contribute good things to the world and are good people. * I think they should push the palestinians into Egypt *and let Egypt deal with them.  They are a creation of the Egyptians anyways.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you support ethnic cleansing even though many of them are indiginous the Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing?  No.  War?  Yes.  The act of lobbing bombs into Israel is an act of war that should be taken seriously when you are a country with citizens who matter to you.
> 
> Should they hold back?  No, they should not.  They should hit them with everything they can.  Maybe THEN they will stop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No Jews in Gaza. They've been cleansed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Israeli police* evicting Israeli *settlers *from Gaza after a unilateral withdrawal isn't exactly "ethnic cleansing".  Nice try though.
> 
> A better example might be the forced expulsion of Jews from certain Arab countries during the formation of Israel.
Click to expand...


your  definition....there are no Jews in Gaza


> *ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous*. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration


----------



## Coyote

teddyearp said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This brings me back round to why don't the Palestinians attack the Brits?<snip>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are starting to hit the nail on the head.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not really.  What would be the point?  What would they gain?  No land.  No state. Nothing but a wasted battle with an entity that is geographically distant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And you are right.  I was only getting dragged into the 'old' history; which as you said is almost 100 years past now.  But my point was that ultimately the Brits were in charge when some of the Jews were allowed to repopulate, yet most here blame it all on the Jews.
Click to expand...


Because - even though the Brits were in charge, when they left - all hell broke loose.  And the current occupation is under the Jews not the Brits.


----------



## teddyearp

Coyote said:


> That would be part of the negotiation process...but if Israel should keep it, it's non-Jewish residents should not be evicted.



Hmm, were do you come up with this?  I have been to Jerusalem and didn't see anything to substantiate such a thing as you say here.  In all the quarters of the Old City, nope.  In the new city, nope.  Looked to me like the Muslims, Christians and Jews were living side by side.  No evictions that I saw back then.

But I'll tell ya what.  I'm going back in April 2015 and intend to spend more time seeing things and a bit less being a tourist, so I'll get back to you on this.


----------



## Hossfly

Hossfly said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not up to the UN as to when the occupation ends, it is all down to the palestinians abiding with the UN resolutions. They will find they wont be able to fool the UN the way they fool you and the other stooges. They will fail to keep to the "living side by side with Israel in peace and security" there are no treaties or UN resolutions that say the borders will be based of the 1967 ceasefire lines. THEY WERE NEVER BORDERS AND WERE NEVER SEEN AS SUCH BY THE UN
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Broken Record by a robotic puppet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What atrocities? And what can the limp dicked UN do about it? They can't even stick around to fight when terrorists sneeze.
Click to expand...

No one answered the question.


----------



## teddyearp

asaratis said:


> Sorry, Charlie!  No cigar for you!
> 
> 
> Middle-East-Info.org - Arabs and Muslims in Israel
> 
> *The freest Arabs, Christians, Jews and Muslims in Mideast are Israelis Even after the "Palestine Liberation Organization" got authority over 95% of the Arab Palestinian population in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, the more than one million Arab Palestinians in Israel chose to continue to live under Israeli sovereignty in the Jewish state of Israel rather than choosing to live under the all-too-unfortunate oppression which is the lot of their Arab and Muslim brothers throughout the Middle East. 77% of Israeli Arabs would even live nowhere else than in Israel.Moreover, millions of Arab Palestinian imagined "refugees" desire to "return" living in Israel.*



Thank you very much.  This is exactly what I witnessed in Israel when I visited in 2011.  there is no 'oppression', no 'discrimination', just harmony.  In Eretz Israel, everyone lives side by side in peace and has the same level of prosperity.


----------



## Coyote

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
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> 
> Jroc said:
> 
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> Coyote said:
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> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you support ethnic cleansing even though many of them are indiginous the Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing?  No.  War?  Yes.  The act of lobbing bombs into Israel is an act of war that should be taken seriously when you are a country with citizens who matter to you.
> 
> Should they hold back?  No, they should not.  They should hit them with everything they can.  Maybe THEN they will stop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No Jews in Gaza. They've been cleansed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Israeli police* evicting Israeli *settlers *from Gaza after a unilateral withdrawal isn't exactly "ethnic cleansing".  Nice try though.
> 
> A better example might be the forced expulsion of Jews from certain Arab countries during the formation of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> your  definition....there are no Jews in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> *ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous*. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


So...if you consider this ethnic cleansing, you are effectively accusing Israel of ethnically cleansing Gaza...

The problem though lies in "intent".


----------



## MaryL

Really? The world is sick of Muslims perpetrating evil on the world. 9\11.  dingbats chopping off heads on the internet. Please, Israel is just a victim of Islamic hate.  Of all the evil in the world, what Israel has done to protect themselves is the least of my worries. What these psychopathic Muslim mass murders do, that really concerns me and the world, I think.


----------



## Jroc

Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing?  No.  War?  Yes.  The act of lobbing bombs into Israel is an act of war that should be taken seriously when you are a country with citizens who matter to you.
> 
> Should they hold back?  No, they should not.  They should hit them with everything they can.  Maybe THEN they will stop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No Jews in Gaza. They've been cleansed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Israeli police* evicting Israeli *settlers *from Gaza after a unilateral withdrawal isn't exactly "ethnic cleansing".  Nice try though.
> 
> A better example might be the forced expulsion of Jews from certain Arab countries during the formation of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> your  definition....there are no Jews in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> *ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous*. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So...if you consider this ethnic cleansing, you are effectively accusing Israel of ethnically cleansing Gaza...
> 
> The problem though lies in *"intent"*.
Click to expand...


the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing


----------



## Coyote

teddyearp said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> That would be part of the negotiation process...but if Israel should keep it, it's non-Jewish residents should not be evicted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, were do you come up with this?  I have been to Jerusalem and didn't see anything to substantiate such a thing as you say here.  In all the quarters of the Old City, nope.  In the new city, nope.  Looked to me like the Muslims, Christians and Jews were living side by side.  No evictions that I saw back then.
> 
> But I'll tell ya what.  I'm going back in April 2015 and intend to spend more time seeing things and a bit less being a tourist, so I'll get back to you on this.
Click to expand...


It's been an ongoing concern in the news:
The ethnic cleansing of Jerusalem
 Israel s ethnic cleansing in Jerusalem is a direct blow to peace efforts say Palestinian leaders - Middle East - World - The Independent
Israel 8217 s Ethnic Cleansing Jerusalem to be 8220 Arab Free 8221 by 2015 Global Research


----------



## Coyote

MaryL said:


> Really? The world is sick of Muslims perpetrating evil on the world. 9\11.  dingbats chopping off heads on the internet. Please, Israel is just a victim of Islamic hate.  Of all the evil in the world, what Israel has done to protect themselves is the least of my worries. What these psychopathic Muslim mass murders do, that really concerns me and the world, I think.



We get that you hate Muslims.


----------



## montelatici

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
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> Coyote said:
> 
> 
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> Jroc said:
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> Coyote said:
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> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No Jews in Gaza. They've been cleansed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Israeli police* evicting Israeli *settlers *from Gaza after a unilateral withdrawal isn't exactly "ethnic cleansing".  Nice try though.
> 
> A better example might be the forced expulsion of Jews from certain Arab countries during the formation of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> your  definition....there are no Jews in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> *ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous*. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So...if you consider this ethnic cleansing, you are effectively accusing Israel of ethnically cleansing Gaza...
> 
> The problem though lies in *"intent"*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
Click to expand...


Well, I suspect that the goal of any people that were invaded would be to remove the invader.


----------



## Coyote

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
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> Jroc said:
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> Coyote said:
> 
> 
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> 
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> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No Jews in Gaza. They've been cleansed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Israeli police* evicting Israeli *settlers *from Gaza after a unilateral withdrawal isn't exactly "ethnic cleansing".  Nice try though.
> 
> A better example might be the forced expulsion of Jews from certain Arab countries during the formation of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> your  definition....there are no Jews in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> *ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous*. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So...if you consider this ethnic cleansing, you are effectively accusing Israel of ethnically cleansing Gaza...
> 
> The problem though lies in *"intent"*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
Click to expand...


By Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

teddyearp said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall seeing any documents of Britain transferring any land to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's because you didn't read the links, obviously.  Google it for yourself.  I've already supplied PLENTY of data here.
> 
> Besides, if you are NOT aware of that fact, then I feel sorry for you.  That's pretty darn sad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've seen a lot of "say so" but no documents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> that's because we get sick and tired of posting the same links and documents over and over and over and over and over again.  Because once we do; suddenly you and your friends become silent in the thread they are posted in.  Because then you are too busy creating other threads which would then require the same links and documents to refute you B.S. lies.
> 
> But I have learned long ago that this is your tactic.  Once proven wrong, you do not admit, but move on.
Click to expand...

Yeah, yeah, the same old song and dance but no documents.


----------



## Jroc

Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Jews in Gaza. They've been cleansed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Israeli police* evicting Israeli *settlers *from Gaza after a unilateral withdrawal isn't exactly "ethnic cleansing".  Nice try though.
> 
> A better example might be the forced expulsion of Jews from certain Arab countries during the formation of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> your  definition....there are no Jews in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> *ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous*. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So...if you consider this ethnic cleansing, you are effectively accusing Israel of ethnically cleansing Gaza...
> 
> The problem though lies in *"intent"*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By Israel.
Click to expand...


Yep.... so you're against it


----------



## Jroc

montelatici said:


> Jroc said:
> 
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> Coyote said:
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> Jroc said:
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> Coyote said:
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> Jroc said:
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> No Jews in Gaza. They've been cleansed
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Israeli police* evicting Israeli *settlers *from Gaza after a unilateral withdrawal isn't exactly "ethnic cleansing".  Nice try though.
> 
> A better example might be the forced expulsion of Jews from certain Arab countries during the formation of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> your  definition....there are no Jews in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> *ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous*. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So...if you consider this ethnic cleansing, you are effectively accusing Israel of ethnically cleansing Gaza...
> 
> The problem though lies in *"intent"*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I suspect that the goal of any people that were invaded would be to remove the invader.
Click to expand...

A Jew free country? You'd like that I know


----------



## asaratis

Coyote said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really? The world is sick of Muslims perpetrating evil on the world. 9\11.  dingbats chopping off heads on the internet. Please, Israel is just a victim of Islamic hate.  Of all the evil in the world, what Israel has done to protect themselves is the least of my worries. What these psychopathic Muslim mass murders do, that really concerns me and the world, I think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We get that you hate Muslims.
Click to expand...

I get that she hates the psychopathic Muslims....as do I.

Kill  All radical Muslims...and their children!


----------



## Coyote

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israeli police* evicting Israeli *settlers *from Gaza after a unilateral withdrawal isn't exactly "ethnic cleansing".  Nice try though.
> 
> A better example might be the forced expulsion of Jews from certain Arab countries during the formation of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> your  definition....there are no Jews in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> *ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous*. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So...if you consider this ethnic cleansing, you are effectively accusing Israel of ethnically cleansing Gaza...
> 
> The problem though lies in *"intent"*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep.... so you're against it
Click to expand...


If it's ethnic cleansing I'm against it.

Are you?


----------



## MaryL

Jews where massacred. We know  atrocities. Islam  NOW is like Germany in 1933. When the good Germans did nothing to stop the  extremists, that is what Islam is NOW, Islam does NOTHING to stop the extremists. Israel does what it has to, in self defense. Islam? it murders unarmed civilians in Europe and America. We all know what it is.


----------



## Coyote

MaryL said:


> Jews where massacred. We know  atrocities. Islam  NOW is like Germany in 1933. When the good Germans did nothing to stop the  extremists, that is what Islam is NOW, Islam does NOTHING to stop the extremists. Israel does what it has to, in self defense. Islam? it murders unarmed civilians in Europe and America. We all know what it is.



Oh brother.  Yet another idiotic attempt to compare modern world events to the Holocaust with ignorant generalizations.


----------



## Coyote

asaratis said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really? The world is sick of Muslims perpetrating evil on the world. 9\11.  dingbats chopping off heads on the internet. Please, Israel is just a victim of Islamic hate.  Of all the evil in the world, what Israel has done to protect themselves is the least of my worries. What these psychopathic Muslim mass murders do, that really concerns me and the world, I think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We get that you hate Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I get that she hates the psychopathic Muslims....as do I.
> 
> Kill  All radical Muslims...and their children!
Click to expand...


Wow.  Killing innocent children too.  How civilized.


----------



## Jroc

Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> your  definition....there are no Jews in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So...if you consider this ethnic cleansing, you are effectively accusing Israel of ethnically cleansing Gaza...
> 
> The problem though lies in *"intent"*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep.... so you're against it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If it's ethnic cleansing I'm against it.
> 
> Are you?
Click to expand...

so your against Jews being forced out of Arab controlled areas right? That's the only cleansing actually.  You give the Arabs anatomy. Forcibly remove all Jews and get a terrorist state go figure


----------



## Hossfly

Coyote said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews where massacred. We know  atrocities. Islam  NOW is like Germany in 1933. When the good Germans did nothing to stop the  extremists, that is what Islam is NOW, Islam does NOTHING to stop the extremists. Israel does what it has to, in self defense. Islam? it murders unarmed civilians in Europe and America. We all know what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother.  Yet another idiotic attempt to compare modern world events to the Holocaust with ignorant generalizations.
Click to expand...

The point about Germans not stopping the Nazis while they could is the same as moderate Muslims not putting the brakes on extremists while they could is a valid point.


----------



## aris2chat

P F Tinmore said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall seeing any documents of Britain transferring any land to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's because you didn't read the links, obviously.  Google it for yourself.  I've already supplied PLENTY of data here.
> 
> Besides, if you are NOT aware of that fact, then I feel sorry for you.  That's pretty darn sad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've seen a lot of "say so" but no documents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTF is wrong with you?  You don't know history?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure I do, and I have never seen any document showing Britain transferring any land to Israel.
Click to expand...


http://www.beki.org/landlaw.html
Israeli land and property laws - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Israel Lands - Privatization or National Ownership Jewish Virtual Library

>>
The British Mandate Land ownership under the British Mandate was based on the Ottoman Land Code, with additional legislation adopted during the Mandate. Under the Ottoman Code, land was classified in five categories with provisions for documentation of registration. The two basic types of land were mulk (private lands), and miri (land
leased from the state). While the latter was subject to certain limitations, miri land was inherited, sold, and generally regarded as the land of the user. Under the code, individuals able to prove cultivation of a plot of land for 10 years or more were issued a title of ownership.

Miri also included communal and common lands. Most miri land registered in the Ottoman Land Registry (tapu) was of this type. A considerable portion of both mulk and miri land was administered independently of the British administration by Muslim and Christian awqaf (religious endowment) and handled as nontransferable properties for the benefit of the religious communities. At the time of the British occupation of Palestine, the majority of lands in the country were either unregistered in the tapu, or the registration was imperfect and obsolete. The Mandate government added a sixth category of lands, "Public Lands", which was defined as lands under the control of the government by treaty, convention, agreement, succession and lands acquired for public purpose. Public lands totaled approximately 1,500,000 out of 26,320,000 dunums (1,500 sq. km or 26,320 sq. km) at the end of 1943.

The Mandate government also adopted measures under the 1928 Land (Settlement of Title) Ordinance for identification and registration of land according to cadastral survey. By the end of the British Mandate, titles were settled and registered on 25% of the total land area of Mandate Palestine. Five laws were adopted between 1920 and 1940 to address Palestinian Arab concerns about Jewish/Zionist land purchases in Palestine, including the eviction of agricultural tenants by mostly absentee landlords who were not Palestinian. <<

Absentee property Israel law - Text Non-UN document 14 March 1950 


all this and more has been posted before by other members.


*
*


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can Europeans "give" land that is inhabited by indigenous people to other Europeans?  That's a crazy concept.  The Muslims and Christians attacked no one.  They were simply resisting the European takeover of their land and homes.  The Christians and Muslims were unsuccessful in defending themselves from the Jewish savages but they certainly had every right to defend themselves.
> 
> Eventually there will be peace through demographic changes as happened in South Africa and Rhodesia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You fuckin idiot.* Did you not read Rocco's post showing all the attacks and massacres against Jews before Israel even became a state??*
> It was only AFTER these attacks that Haganah and Irgun were created.
> Then there were the attacks diring the civil war and Arab Israeli war.
> You're a liar and your posts should not be taken seriously
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We did.
> 
> All that was after Britain occupied Palestine with the Balfour declaration in its pocket and began colonizing Palestine on the behalf of the foreign Zionists.
> 
> The Palestinians resisted colonization then as they resist it now.
Click to expand...


First off, show me one link of a 'colonization' incident becore those attacks.
Second, you ALWAYS justify Palestinian killing of Jews. You have used every excuse possible. 
But you are also forgetting that many many local Jews were massacred as well.

Either way, the attacks/massacres were started by the Arabs. You cannot change history, no matter how bad you want to.


----------



## toastman

ChrisL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall seeing any documents of Britain transferring any land to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's because you didn't read the links, obviously.  Google it for yourself.  I've already supplied PLENTY of data here.
> 
> Besides, if you are NOT aware of that fact, then I feel sorry for you.  That's pretty darn sad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've seen a lot of "say so" but no documents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTF is wrong with you?  You don't know history?
Click to expand...


He posts as if he is an expert on the history of the conflict, but he's ALWAYS wrong about EVERYTHING.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What with the garbage state the SA is now. One must hate africans to promote that "struggle" against "apartheid".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are an Apartheid supporter.  I knew it, just wanted confirmation.  No wonder you support Israel, today's Apartheid state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how you call Israel an Apartheid state wher you can't even point out where there is Apartheid inside  Israel proper.
> Your bullshit liss just keep on coming. Non stop bullshit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "The Jewish state (for so it identifies itself, after all) maintains a system of formal and informal housing segregation both in Israel and in the occupied territories. It's obvious, of course, that Jewish settlements in the West Bank aren't exactly bursting with Palestinians. In Israel itself, however, *hundreds of communities have been established for Jewish residents on land expropriated from Palestinians, in which segregation is maintained, for example, by admissions committees empowered to use ethnic criteria long since banned in the United States, or by the inability of Palestinian citizens to access land held exclusively for the Jewish people by the state-sanctioned Jewish National Fund.*
> 
> Jewish residents of the occupied territories enjoy various rights and privileges denied to their Palestinian neighbors. While the former enjoy the protections of Israeli civil law, the latter are subject to the harsh provisions of military law. So, while their Jewish neighbors come and go freely, West Bank Palestinians are subject to arbitrary arrest and detention, and to the denial of freedom of movement; they are frequently barred from access to educational or healthcare facilities, Christian and Muslim sites for religious worship, and so on."
> 
> Does the term apartheid fit Israel Of course it does. - LA Times
> 
> Meanwhile, Palestinian citizens of Israel must contend with about 50 state laws and bills that, according to the Palestinian-Israeli human rights organization Adalah, either privilege Jews or directly discriminate against the Palestinian minority. One of the key components of Israel's nationality law, the Law of Return, for example, applies to Jews only, and excludes Palestinians, including Palestinians born in what is now the state of Israel. While Jewish citizens can move back and forth without interdiction, Israeli law expressly bars Palestinian citizens from bringing spouses from the occupied territories to live with them in Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As I thought, you cannot prove there is apartheid in Israel proper.
> Jews and Arabs live side by side, work side by side, eat aide by side, move forward side by side. In Apartheid South Africa, Blacks were not allowed to do the above.
> Is there some discrimination against Arabs in Israel by the population? Absolutely, but every country has discrimination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Talk about an Orwellian response.  The article confirms that Israel practices Apartheid and you respond by claiming it doesn't.
> 
> "11. The Committee notes with increased concern that Israeli society maintains Jewish
> and non-Jewish sectors, which raises issues under article 3 of the Convention. Clarifications
> provided by the delegation confirmed the Committee’s concerns in relation to the existence
> of two systems of education, one in Hebrew and one in Arabic, which except in rare
> circumstances remain impermeable and inaccessible to the other community, as well as
> separate municipalities: Jewish municipalities and the so-called “municipalities of the
> minorities”. The enactment of the Admissions Committees Law (2011), which gives private
> committees full discretion to reject applicants deemed “unsuitable to the social life of the community”, is a clear sign that the concerns as regards segregation remain pressing..."
> 
> Apartheid, pure and simple.
> 
> http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/cerd/docs/CERD.C.ISR.CO.14-16.pdf
Click to expand...

That's NOT 


montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What with the garbage state the SA is now. One must hate africans to promote that "struggle" against "apartheid".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are an Apartheid supporter.  I knew it, just wanted confirmation.  No wonder you support Israel, today's Apartheid state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how you call Israel an Apartheid state wher you can't even point out where there is Apartheid inside  Israel proper.
> Your bullshit liss just keep on coming. Non stop bullshit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "The Jewish state (for so it identifies itself, after all) maintains a system of formal and informal housing segregation both in Israel and in the occupied territories. It's obvious, of course, that Jewish settlements in the West Bank aren't exactly bursting with Palestinians. In Israel itself, however, *hundreds of communities have been established for Jewish residents on land expropriated from Palestinians, in which segregation is maintained, for example, by admissions committees empowered to use ethnic criteria long since banned in the United States, or by the inability of Palestinian citizens to access land held exclusively for the Jewish people by the state-sanctioned Jewish National Fund.*
> 
> Jewish residents of the occupied territories enjoy various rights and privileges denied to their Palestinian neighbors. While the former enjoy the protections of Israeli civil law, the latter are subject to the harsh provisions of military law. So, while their Jewish neighbors come and go freely, West Bank Palestinians are subject to arbitrary arrest and detention, and to the denial of freedom of movement; they are frequently barred from access to educational or healthcare facilities, Christian and Muslim sites for religious worship, and so on."
> 
> Does the term apartheid fit Israel Of course it does. - LA Times
> 
> Meanwhile, Palestinian citizens of Israel must contend with about 50 state laws and bills that, according to the Palestinian-Israeli human rights organization Adalah, either privilege Jews or directly discriminate against the Palestinian minority. One of the key components of Israel's nationality law, the Law of Return, for example, applies to Jews only, and excludes Palestinians, including Palestinians born in what is now the state of Israel. While Jewish citizens can move back and forth without interdiction, Israeli law expressly bars Palestinian citizens from bringing spouses from the occupied territories to live with them in Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As I thought, you cannot prove there is apartheid in Israel proper.
> Jews and Arabs live side by side, work side by side, eat aide by side, move forward side by side. In Apartheid South Africa, Blacks were not allowed to do the above.
> Is there some discrimination against Arabs in Israel by the population? Absolutely, but every country has discrimination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Talk about an Orwellian response.  The article confirms that Israel practices Apartheid and you respond by claiming it doesn't.
> 
> "11. The Committee notes with increased concern that Israeli society maintains Jewish
> and non-Jewish sectors, which raises issues under article 3 of the Convention. Clarifications
> provided by the delegation confirmed the Committee’s concerns in relation to the existence
> of two systems of education, one in Hebrew and one in Arabic, which except in rare
> circumstances remain impermeable and inaccessible to the other community, as well as
> separate municipalities: Jewish municipalities and the so-called “municipalities of the
> minorities”. The enactment of the Admissions Committees Law (2011), which gives private
> committees full discretion to reject applicants deemed “unsuitable to the social life of the community”, is a clear sign that the concerns as regards segregation remain pressing..."
> 
> Apartheid, pure and simple.
> 
> http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/cerd/docs/CERD.C.ISR.CO.14-16.pdf
Click to expand...


That's not apartheid. You idiots compare Israel to SA, yet you have no clue how Blacks were treated. There is zero compariskn between the two countries. You just like to parrot what the anti Israel says.
Once again you fail.


----------



## asaratis

Coyote said:


> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really? The world is sick of Muslims perpetrating evil on the world. 9\11.  dingbats chopping off heads on the internet. Please, Israel is just a victim of Islamic hate.  Of all the evil in the world, what Israel has done to protect themselves is the least of my worries. What these psychopathic Muslim mass murders do, that really concerns me and the world, I think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We get that you hate Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I get that she hates the psychopathic Muslims....as do I.
> 
> Kill  All radical Muslims...and their children!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow.  Killing innocent children too.  How civilized.
Click to expand...

Actually, I've been over this before somewhere in this forum. I'd target no babies or toddlers that hadn't been nurtured into believing they'll become martyrs after blowing themselves and innocent bystanders to bits in a suicide mission, sent by Mohammed, the child molesting, shit of a pig.  You wanna WOW at killing innocent children?  Talk the to goddamned radical Muslims that teach their children it's God's will to go blow themselves up.   Talk to the radical Muslims that cannot rest until all infidels (including those among them that might neglect a silly fucking rule from the Chief Pedophile of the 400s) are stone cold dead.

I merely want to scrape the rust off this ship we call peaceful living.  A little collateral damage will soon be forgiven.


----------



## MaryL

The world is tired of Islamic atrocities, and the excuses, The Muslims are even tired of these people that use suicide bombers and cowardly tactics to harm innocent people world wide. Hamas are cowards hiding behind civilians  and cynically blaming Israel for the results.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall seeing any documents of Britain transferring any land to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's because you didn't read the links, obviously.  Google it for yourself.  I've already supplied PLENTY of data here.
> 
> Besides, if you are NOT aware of that fact, then I feel sorry for you.  That's pretty darn sad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've seen a lot of "say so" but no documents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> that's because we get sick and tired of posting the same links and documents over and over and over and over and over again.  Because once we do; suddenly you and your friends become silent in the thread they are posted in.  Because then you are too busy creating other threads which would then require the same links and documents to refute you B.S. lies.
> 
> But I have learned long ago that this is your tactic.  Once proven wrong, you do not admit, but move on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, the same old song and dance but no documents.
Click to expand...


That's because the issue of transferring land has nothing to do with anything.
You made it up. The need to transfer land to the Jews for them to legally declare independence is a 'Tinmore Pre requisite'.
You seem to make up quite a lot of things actually


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall seeing any documents of Britain transferring any land to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've seen a lot of "say so" but no documents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> that's because we get sick and tired of posting the same links and documents over and over and over and over and over again.  Because once we do; suddenly you and your friends become silent in the thread they are posted in.  Because then you are too busy creating other threads which would then require the same links and documents to refute you B.S. lies.
> 
> But I have learned long ago that this is your tactic.  Once proven wrong, you do not admit, but move on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, the same old song and dance but no documents.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because the issue of transferring land has nothing to do with anything.
> You made it up. The need to transfer land to the Jews for them to legally declare independence is a 'Tinmore Pre requisite'.
> You seem to make up quite a lot of things actually
Click to expand...

Actually, "a defined territory" *is* a prerequisite for statehood.


----------



## Daniyel

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This brings me back round to why don't the Palestinians attack the Brits?  It's because they are ignorant cowards and bigots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What would be the point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is who is responsible for their current predicament, right?  I think it's wonderful that Israel is there in the ME to keep a little bit of sanity amongst the insane and brainwashed over in the middle east.  They contribute good things to the world and are good people. * I think they should push the palestinians into Egypt *and let Egypt deal with them.  They are a creation of the Egyptians anyways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you support ethnic cleansing even though many of them are indiginous the Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing?  No.  War?  Yes.  The act of lobbing bombs into Israel is an act of war that should be taken seriously when you are a country with citizens who matter to you.
> 
> Should they hold back?  No, they should not.  They should hit them with everything they can.  Maybe THEN they will stop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
Click to expand...

So technically every state in the world is involved in ethnic cleansing.


----------



## Daniyel

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen a lot of "say so" but no documents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that's because we get sick and tired of posting the same links and documents over and over and over and over and over again.  Because once we do; suddenly you and your friends become silent in the thread they are posted in.  Because then you are too busy creating other threads which would then require the same links and documents to refute you B.S. lies.
> 
> But I have learned long ago that this is your tactic.  Once proven wrong, you do not admit, but move on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, the same old song and dance but no documents.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because the issue of transferring land has nothing to do with anything.
> You made it up. The need to transfer land to the Jews for them to legally declare independence is a 'Tinmore Pre requisite'.
> You seem to make up quite a lot of things actually
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, "a defined territory" *is* a prerequisite for statehood.
Click to expand...

So how does the Palestinian virtual state declared statehood?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen a lot of "say so" but no documents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that's because we get sick and tired of posting the same links and documents over and over and over and over and over again.  Because once we do; suddenly you and your friends become silent in the thread they are posted in.  Because then you are too busy creating other threads which would then require the same links and documents to refute you B.S. lies.
> 
> But I have learned long ago that this is your tactic.  Once proven wrong, you do not admit, but move on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, the same old song and dance but no documents.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because the issue of transferring land has nothing to do with anything.
> You made it up. The need to transfer land to the Jews for them to legally declare independence is a 'Tinmore Pre requisite'.
> You seem to make up quite a lot of things actually
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, "a defined territory" *is* a prerequisite for statehood.
Click to expand...


Deflection.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen a lot of "say so" but no documents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that's because we get sick and tired of posting the same links and documents over and over and over and over and over again.  Because once we do; suddenly you and your friends become silent in the thread they are posted in.  Because then you are too busy creating other threads which would then require the same links and documents to refute you B.S. lies.
> 
> But I have learned long ago that this is your tactic.  Once proven wrong, you do not admit, but move on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, the same old song and dance but no documents.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because the issue of transferring land has nothing to do with anything.
> You made it up. The need to transfer land to the Jews for them to legally declare independence is a 'Tinmore Pre requisite'.
> You seem to make up quite a lot of things actually
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, "a defined territory" *is* a prerequisite for statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection.
Click to expand...

*ARTICLE 1*
The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: a ) a permanent population;* b ) a defined territory;* c ) government; and d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states.

The Avalon Project Convention on Rights and Duties of States inter-American December 26 1933


----------



## MaryL

What is all this talk about Israeli atrocities? Nobody is perfect. But Hamas, they blow up over 250 American marines in Beirut Lebanon back in 1983, Muslim extremist, and how quickly these marines were forgotten. Semper Fi.  Ever since then, Americans forget the atrocities Muslims commit, then focus on the few mistakes Israel has made as if  it's the be all end all. Remember 9/11? Yeah, that's what Muslims do. But do exaggerate Israeli crimes against humanity, do go on.


----------



## toastman

MaryL said:


> What is all this talk about Israeli atrocities? Nobody is perfect. But Hamas, they blow up over 250 American marines in Beirut Lebanon back in 1983, Muslim extremist, and how quickly these marines were forgotten. Semper Fi.  Ever since then, Americans forget the atrocities Muslims commit, then focus on the few mistakes Israel has made as if  it's the be all end all. Remember 9/11? Yeah, that's what Muslims do. But do exaggerate Israeli crimes against humanity, do go on.



That was Hezbollah.
But I agree with the rest of your post


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> that's because we get sick and tired of posting the same links and documents over and over and over and over and over again.  Because once we do; suddenly you and your friends become silent in the thread they are posted in.  Because then you are too busy creating other threads which would then require the same links and documents to refute you B.S. lies.
> 
> But I have learned long ago that this is your tactic.  Once proven wrong, you do not admit, but move on.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, yeah, the same old song and dance but no documents.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because the issue of transferring land has nothing to do with anything.
> You made it up. The need to transfer land to the Jews for them to legally declare independence is a 'Tinmore Pre requisite'.
> You seem to make up quite a lot of things actually
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, "a defined territory" *is* a prerequisite for statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *ARTICLE 1*
> The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: a ) a permanent population;* b ) a defined territory;* c ) government; and d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states.
> 
> The Avalon Project Convention on Rights and Duties of States inter-American December 26 1933
Click to expand...


And?


----------



## ChrisL

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No Jews in Gaza. They've been cleansed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Israeli police* evicting Israeli *settlers *from Gaza after a unilateral withdrawal isn't exactly "ethnic cleansing".  Nice try though.
> 
> A better example might be the forced expulsion of Jews from certain Arab countries during the formation of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> your  definition....there are no Jews in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> *ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous*. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So...if you consider this ethnic cleansing, you are effectively accusing Israel of ethnically cleansing Gaza...
> 
> The problem though lies in *"intent"*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
Click to expand...


This is SO obvious.  I cannot believe that people are arguing that Israel is the one who wants to wipe out an entire people.  THAT is just not the case.  It is the other way around.  What is wrong with people?  Are they really SO blind?


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Jews in Gaza. They've been cleansed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Israeli police* evicting Israeli *settlers *from Gaza after a unilateral withdrawal isn't exactly "ethnic cleansing".  Nice try though.
> 
> A better example might be the forced expulsion of Jews from certain Arab countries during the formation of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> your  definition....there are no Jews in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> *ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous*. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So...if you consider this ethnic cleansing, you are effectively accusing Israel of ethnically cleansing Gaza...
> 
> The problem though lies in *"intent"*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By Israel.
Click to expand...


Are you serious?  Do you actually believe that Israel is the one who is a country of genocidal maniacs?  Really?  You seem like an intelligent person, and I find it stunning that anyone with half a brain would believe this line of crap!!!???


----------



## Penelope

MaryL said:


> Jews where massacred. We know  atrocities. Islam  NOW is like Germany in 1933. When the good Germans did nothing to stop the  extremists, that is what Islam is NOW, Islam does NOTHING to stop the extremists. Israel does what it has to, in self defense. Islam? it murders unarmed civilians in Europe and America. We all know what it is.



I think you best check the fact , many Muslims are against the radicals. 

Actually Israel has the  racist and fascist government. In 1933 Judea declared war on Germany.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.




You mean like how every last Jew has been clensed from Gaza despite the fact that Jews were living there millenia before the Palestinians were invented or how over 99% of Jews living in Arab lands have been clensed?

Quoting a definition of ethnic clensing is one thing. Apply the term properly is another.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "There ancestral lands were never in Palestine as the records show, even Winny told the house of commons that the majority were illegal immigrants back in 1939.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see how your bullshit differs from the official record.  taking the period from 1922 through 1937.  As per the Report of the Mandatory in 1937.
> 
> Oh dear, the total increase in population through immigration was 281,339 and the Jewish part of that increase was 245,433, the Muslim part was 25,168 and the Christian part was 10,414.  Isn't it discouraging that while you yap bullshit, I provide source documentation.
> 
> 
> 
> 6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]... - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel should take the Gaza strip back and push those "palestinians" into Egypt.  That's what they are really anyways.  The are Egyptians and Jordanians.  None of those people alive today that refer to themselves as "palestinians" have any right to the land they occupy.  Israel won it fair and square, but they gave that land to those savage beasts.  I think they are being TOO nice.  They should get rid of those POS once and for all IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How do you "win" land "fair and square" without contravening the Geneva Convention?  The Jewish savages came from Europe invaded the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the French and Brits already had control of that "territory."  They gave it to Israel, who in turn was attacked, yet beat incredible odds to win and maintain their hold on their land.  Why they would ever have agreed to give up the Gaza strip to those monsters, I don't know.  They should throw them all out and take it back, and never negotiate with the scum again.  If they see them, they should shoot first and ask questions later.    That's how you handle that kind of POS scum.  They will stop with their terror tactics eventually, and then there can be peace, because we all know that Israel just wants to exist in peace.
Click to expand...

*"They gave it to Israel,"*

*Could you document that?*[/QUOTE]




 Do you wasn't the maps again tinny that show even Jordan is in Israel, and the minutes of the LoN treaty that spelt out Palestine was destined for the RESURECTED NATIONAL HOME OF THE JEWS.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can Europeans "give" land that is inhabited by indigenous people to other Europeans?  That's a crazy concept.  The Muslims and Christians attacked no one.  They were simply resisting the European takeover of their land and homes.  The Christians and Muslims were unsuccessful in defending themselves from the Jewish savages but they certainly had every right to defend themselves.
> 
> Eventually there will be peace through demographic changes as happened in South Africa and Rhodesia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You fuckin idiot.* Did you not read Rocco's post showing all the attacks and massacres against Jews before Israel even became a state??*
> It was only AFTER these attacks that Haganah and Irgun were created.
> Then there were the attacks diring the civil war and Arab Israeli war.
> You're a liar and your posts should not be taken seriously
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We did.
> 
> All that was after Britain occupied Palestine with the Balfour declaration in its pocket and began colonizing Palestine on the behalf of the foreign Zionists.
> 
> The Palestinians resisted colonization then as they resist it now.
Click to expand...




 The Palestinians were the Jews, Palestine was spoils of war and was owned by the LoN from 1919. The arab muslims had no legal ownership for 1,000 years so had no legal grounds to resist anything, and still don't. They have no written treaty signed by their representative other than the ones appertaining to Syria and Jordan. The JEWS of the world are the LEGAL LAND OWNERS under customary international law as they were bequeathed the land in 1921, just as the arab muslims are the LEGAL LAND OWNERS of Syria and Jordan.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see how your bullshit differs from the official record.  taking the period from 1922 through 1937.  As per the Report of the Mandatory in 1937.
> 
> Oh dear, the total increase in population through immigration was 281,339 and the Jewish part of that increase was 245,433, the Muslim part was 25,168 and the Christian part was 10,414.  Isn't it discouraging that while you yap bullshit, I provide source documentation.
> 
> 
> 
> 6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]... - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel should take the Gaza strip back and push those "palestinians" into Egypt.  That's what they are really anyways.  The are Egyptians and Jordanians.  None of those people alive today that refer to themselves as "palestinians" have any right to the land they occupy.  Israel won it fair and square, but they gave that land to those savage beasts.  I think they are being TOO nice.  They should get rid of those POS once and for all IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How do you "win" land "fair and square" without contravening the Geneva Convention?  The Jewish savages came from Europe invaded the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the French and Brits already had control of that "territory."  They gave it to Israel, who in turn was attacked, yet beat incredible odds to win and maintain their hold on their land.  Why they would ever have agreed to give up the Gaza strip to those monsters, I don't know.  They should throw them all out and take it back, and never negotiate with the scum again.  If they see them, they should shoot first and ask questions later.    That's how you handle that kind of POS scum.  They will stop with their terror tactics eventually, and then there can be peace, because we all know that Israel just wants to exist in peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *"They gave it to Israel,"*
> 
> *Could you document that?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hello?  I already did in the links I provided.  READ them please.
Click to expand...

I don't recall seeing any documents of Britain transferring any land to Israel.[/QUOTE]



 Because Britain did not have any legal ownership of the land, they were just agents acting on behalf of the LoN. It was the LoN and its successor the UN that transferred ownership. Just look on Britain as a police force sent to keep law and order and to assist the locals in setting up their own country


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall seeing any documents of Britain transferring any land to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's because you didn't read the links, obviously.  Google it for yourself.  I've already supplied PLENTY of data here.
> 
> Besides, if you are NOT aware of that fact, then I feel sorry for you.  That's pretty darn sad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've seen a lot of "say so" but no documents.
Click to expand...




 Because the documents have been posted repeatedly and you just ignore them when they destroy your argument


----------



## Phoenall

Penelope said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...In that case kill the terrorist scum that runs Israel that commits genocide without a second thought.
> 
> 
> 
> In that case, don't fuss when you've given the Israelis the excuse they need in the eyes of the world, to wipe you out, once and for all.
> 
> The Israelis do not commit genocide.
> 
> They are merely engaged in a long-term campaign to force Palestinians off their few remaining scraps of land.
> 
> The Palestinians may end-up having to pack, and leave, but at least they'll be alive, once they've moved to Jordan or Lebanon.
> 
> On the other hand, the Palestinians have long-since sworn to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean.
> 
> The latter sounds much more like the stereotypical, classical definition of 'genocide' than any land-squeezing at-issue here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Penelope is another ignorant uneducated  terrorist sympathizer, obviously.
> 
> Genocide is mentioned in the Hamas charter.  Genocide of the Jewish people is mentioned SEVERAL times actually.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are not following their charter, haven't you heard the news. Listen to your PM Bibi and we should of been blown up by the nukes he predicted in the early 1990, Israel is the country spreading false propaganda and has been for years.
Click to expand...




 They quoted the same charter just a few short months ago right before the attacked Israel


----------



## Phoenall

Penelope said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall seeing any documents of Britain transferring any land to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's because you didn't read the links, obviously.  Google it for yourself.  I've already supplied PLENTY of data here.
> 
> Besides, if you are NOT aware of that fact, then I feel sorry for you.  That's pretty darn sad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've seen a lot of "say so" but no documents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTF is wrong with you?  You don't know history?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your the one who is clueless about history. Perhaps its you who can't understand what you read.
Click to expand...



 Don't forget that there are two lines of  history, on the right hand line we have the real history and on the left hand line the history according to islam.


----------



## Penelope

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel should take the Gaza strip back and push those "palestinians" into Egypt.  That's what they are really anyways.  The are Egyptians and Jordanians.  None of those people alive today that refer to themselves as "palestinians" have any right to the land they occupy.  Israel won it fair and square, but they gave that land to those savage beasts.  I think they are being TOO nice.  They should get rid of those POS once and for all IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do you "win" land "fair and square" without contravening the Geneva Convention?  The Jewish savages came from Europe invaded the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the French and Brits already had control of that "territory."  They gave it to Israel, who in turn was attacked, yet beat incredible odds to win and maintain their hold on their land.  Why they would ever have agreed to give up the Gaza strip to those monsters, I don't know.  They should throw them all out and take it back, and never negotiate with the scum again.  If they see them, they should shoot first and ask questions later.    That's how you handle that kind of POS scum.  They will stop with their terror tactics eventually, and then there can be peace, because we all know that Israel just wants to exist in peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *"They gave it to Israel,"*
> 
> *Could you document that?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hello?  I already did in the links I provided.  READ them please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't recall seeing any documents of Britain transferring any land to Israel.
Click to expand...




Because Britain did not have any legal ownership of the land, they were just agents acting on behalf of the LoN. It was the LoN and its successor the UN that transferred ownership. Just look on Britain as a police force sent to keep law and order and to assist the locals in setting up their own country[/QUOTE]


Yes they did the Balfour Declaration gave permission to the Jew to live in Palestine, and the Jews treated the British so bad and chased them out and so the British washed their hands of it and gave  it to the LON of which the US and Truman declared it Israel.  Obviously one has no rights to a land if someone had to let them live there, Britain had no intentions of giving them control of Palestine, that is why the British still remained there, till Israel blew up their embassy.,  LON was formed till 1920, the jews took huge advantage of the situation as they have in every country they have lived in , they try to make it their own, the revolution in Russia, Germany and now Palestine. One thing to live among others with respect , another to try and take over and become masters over others, like the Israel lobby in the US.


----------



## Penelope

Jewish insurgency in Palestine

The conflict lasted until the UN partition plan, on 29 November 1947, after which the civil war between Palestinian Jews and Arabs eclipsed the previous tensions of both with the British

Shortly before the outbreak of World War II, the British introduced the White Paper of 1939. The White Paper rejected the concept of partition of Palestine into Jewish and Arab states, and announced that the country would be turned into an independent binational state with an Arab majority. It severely curtailed Jewish immigration, allowing for only 75,000 Jews to migrate to Palestine from 1940 to 1944, consisting of a yearly quota of 10,000 per year and a supplementary quota for 25,000 to cover refugee emergencies spread out over the same period. Afterwards, further Jewish immigration would depend on consent of the Arab majority. Sales of Arab land to Jews were to be restricted.

From October 1946, opposition leader, Winston Churchill, began calling for Palestine to be given to the United Nations

(it reads like a nightmare, give an inch and take over)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Palestine
Its WIKI so follow footnotes.


----------



## Coyote

Daniyel said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What would be the point?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is who is responsible for their current predicament, right?  I think it's wonderful that Israel is there in the ME to keep a little bit of sanity amongst the insane and brainwashed over in the middle east.  They contribute good things to the world and are good people. * I think they should push the palestinians into Egypt *and let Egypt deal with them.  They are a creation of the Egyptians anyways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you support ethnic cleansing even though many of them are indiginous the Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing?  No.  War?  Yes.  The act of lobbing bombs into Israel is an act of war that should be taken seriously when you are a country with citizens who matter to you.
> 
> Should they hold back?  No, they should not.  They should hit them with everything they can.  Maybe THEN they will stop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So technically every state in the world is involved in ethnic cleansing.
Click to expand...


No.  Only when you stretch the definition to the point of ridicule.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Jews in Gaza. They've been cleansed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Israeli police* evicting Israeli *settlers *from Gaza after a unilateral withdrawal isn't exactly "ethnic cleansing".  Nice try though.
> 
> A better example might be the forced expulsion of Jews from certain Arab countries during the formation of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> your  definition....there are no Jews in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> *ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous*. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So...if you consider this ethnic cleansing, you are effectively accusing Israel of ethnically cleansing Gaza...
> 
> The problem though lies in *"intent"*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is SO obvious.  I cannot believe that people are arguing that Israel is the one who wants to wipe out an entire people.  THAT is just not the case.  It is the other way around.  What is wrong with people?  Are they really SO blind?
Click to expand...


If you want to remove an entire ethnic group from a land they have occupied for generations - then that is ethnic cleansing and that is what you claim to support.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israeli police* evicting Israeli *settlers *from Gaza after a unilateral withdrawal isn't exactly "ethnic cleansing".  Nice try though.
> 
> A better example might be the forced expulsion of Jews from certain Arab countries during the formation of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> your  definition....there are no Jews in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> *ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous*. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So...if you consider this ethnic cleansing, you are effectively accusing Israel of ethnically cleansing Gaza...
> 
> The problem though lies in *"intent"*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you serious?  Do you actually believe that Israel is the one who is a country of genocidal maniacs?  Really?  You seem like an intelligent person, and I find it stunning that anyone with half a brain would believe this line of crap!!!???
Click to expand...


Read more carefully.  You're missing the context of what I am saying.

Also - ethnic cleansing is not always genocide.  

*Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic *forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous*. The forces applied may be *various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer)*, as well as mass murder, and intimidation.

If you support forcing the Palestinians out of Palestine - then that is ethnic cleansing.


----------



## Kondor3

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like how every last Jew has been clensed from Gaza despite the fact that Jews were living there millenia before the Palestinians were invented or how over 99% of Jews living in Arab lands have been clensed?
> 
> Quoting a definition of ethnic clensing is one thing. Apply the term properly is another.
Click to expand...

Or along the lines of the en masse expulsions and deportations and pressuring-to-leave of Jews in various Muslim countries, during the 1948-1975 timeframe?

Payback's a bitch, ain't it? Especially when the payback is coming from the descendants of Dhimmis and their Euro-cousins. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





There have been a considerable number of large-scale 'ethnic cleansings' undertaken since WWII by countries in good standing on the world stage...

1. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old German province of East Prussia - forced by the Russians and the Poles - in the 1945-1947 timeframe.

2. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old Bohemian province of Sudetenland - force by the Russians and the Czechs - in the 1945 - 1947 timeframe.

3. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Hindus from newly-declared Pakistan, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.

4. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Muslims from newly-independent India, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.

5. the large-scale ethnic and religious cleansings undertaken by the Soviet Union (Germans, Cossacks, etc.) in the 1945-1951 timeframe.

6. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of Greeks from Alexandria, Egypt during the 1957-1962 timeframe

7. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of the descendants of Europeans from several African countries during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.

...and on and on and on... a long list, indeed, since 1945 - most of them illegal, many of them unethical or distasteful, and a few of them more likely a practical necessity.

And, as distasteful (and theoretically illegal) as so-called 'ethnic cleansing' is, being the victim of a forcible expulsion is a damned sight better than being slaughtered in place.

At least a displaced person is still alive at the end of the sequence.

Unlike the fate of the Jews of Israel, according to the founding-charter documents of various Palestinian and related militant organizations, which have promised to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean if they ever get the chance.

Ethnic cleansing, as a deadlock-breaker?

Happens all the time, according to history - even within the realm of Living Memory - and some of it by good friends of ours - countries in good standing on the world stage - and much of that done by the Muslims themselves, to the Jews in the 1948-1975 timeframe.

If there is anything like that going on in Rump Palestine (what few scraps are left of it, anyway), then, it's the logical consequence of decades of Palestinian intransigence, dating back to the long periods of time in which the Israelis were still open to the idea of a viable and sustainable negotiated settlement.

Losers (militarily and politically) do not dictate terms, and the Palestinians could have had a modest country of their own, had they but abandoned the old Right of Return claim and let go of Jerusalem, but the Palestinians foolishly continued to insist upon those terms, and the Israelis gave up on dealing with the Palestinians eventually.

The result: Stalemate - Mexican Standoff - a Gordian Knot.

After years of trying to un-do that Gordian Knot, the Israelis have (finally, and long-overdue) decide to hack through the Knot, much as Alexander is rumored to have done.

That means continuing to squeeze the Palestinians long enough and hard enough so that they get the hint and leave.

I suppose it's possible that there is still time to reverse this course of action and for the Palestinians to eat a long-overdue slice of humble pie and come back to the negotiating table in good faith in a subordinate and inferior position, to see what can still be bargained-for or restored - recognizing Israel's right to exist - dropping claims to Right of Return - and letting go of Jerusalem - but they would do so, hat-in-hand, with the clear understanding that they are the losers, and cannot dictate terms.

Then again, it may simply be too late by now. Too much blood has flowed. Too much distrust and resentment has built up. Too many betrayals and killings have occurred.

It seems clear to outside observers, without a stake in all these proceedings, that Israel is slowly but surely creating a state along the lines of the old 1922 League of Nations partitioning proposal...






...and, as we look at the Palestinians own propaganda maps of shrinking Palestinian-controlled lands...






...it also seems clear that the Jews of Israel are getting much closer to that (personal opinion-based, perceived) goal. Every year, the second map (above) looks more and more like the first. The symmetry between the two - and to the symmetry between the first map and the perceived historical extent of the dual kingdoms of Israel and Judah - and to the symmetry between the first map and the 'hard borders' of Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon - is inescapable.

The Arabs of Old Palestine / Transjordan already have their own State.

The Jews are merely pursuing theirs.

And, given the beating the Jews took in the Holocaust, much of the non-Muslim world is willing to let them do so, to some extent or another - doing so as a Penance for allowing the Holocaust to happen, and wanting to give the Jews at least one little sliver of the world that they can call their own - the sliver they once held, centuries ago.

The remaining Arab-Muslim Palestinians of the area are merely in the way of that goal; a goal which seems almost certain to be achieved in the not-too-distant future.

To borrow a line from an old Bill Cosby comedy routine: "Parents aren't interested in justice, they're interested in peace and quiet."

In connection with the Israel-Palestinian Conflict - beyond the domains of Islam - the world isn't interested in justice, it just wants this to go away.

Given that the Jews have the upper hand - by an order of magnitude - and that Losers do not dictate terms - it would be most efficacious if The World found a way to transplant the losing-side Palestinians elsewhere - given them a piece of the Sinai if Egypt is so willing, or scattering them amongst Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, etc. - and putting an end to this unnecessary decades-long and hopeless resistance to the macro-level plan of giving the Jews a home of their own again.

It's too late now to undo what has already been done, and there are clear Winners and Losers in this struggle.

And, the losers, having lost the coin-toss for first-bats, have to take the field first, in a 'suckers walk'.

The region simply isn't big enough to accommodate both Jews and Muslims any longer, in a situation in which the Jews rule the land.

And, given that the Jews (1) aren't going anywhere and (2) will never allow Palestinian demographics to overwhelm them, there is little left to do but to move the Palestinians elsewhere.

You can label that as ethnic cleansing or expulsion and eviction or whatever-the-hell you like, but, bottom line, it's a "sucker's walk" - with the losers getting out of Dodge, and starting new and far happier lives elsewhere, and with the 'parents' (the rest of the world) getting the 'peace and quiet' that they want as the outcome from all this.

This region and this conflict have occupied a vastly disproportionate amount of the world's attention, and the world, at large, is tired of it, and has been, for decades.

Time to cut the Gordian Knot - time to transplant the Palestinians elsewhere, with the full support and backing of the international community.


----------



## Daniyel

Coyote said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is who is responsible for their current predicament, right?  I think it's wonderful that Israel is there in the ME to keep a little bit of sanity amongst the insane and brainwashed over in the middle east.  They contribute good things to the world and are good people. * I think they should push the palestinians into Egypt *and let Egypt deal with them.  They are a creation of the Egyptians anyways.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you support ethnic cleansing even though many of them are indiginous the Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing?  No.  War?  Yes.  The act of lobbing bombs into Israel is an act of war that should be taken seriously when you are a country with citizens who matter to you.
> 
> Should they hold back?  No, they should not.  They should hit them with everything they can.  Maybe THEN they will stop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So technically every state in the world is involved in ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.  Only when you stretch the definition to the point of ridicule.
Click to expand...

You right, not every state in the world ,but a big majority, US to Syria I guess.


----------



## montelatici

Kondor3 said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like how every last Jew has been clensed from Gaza despite the fact that Jews were living there millenia before the Palestinians were invented or how over 99% of Jews living in Arab lands have been clensed?
> 
> Quoting a definition of ethnic clensing is one thing. Apply the term properly is another.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or along the lines of the en masse expulsions and deportations and pressuring-to-leave of Jews in various Muslim countries, during the 1948-1975 timeframe?
> 
> Payback's a bitch, ain't it? Especially when the payback is coming from the descendants of Dhimmis and their Euro-cousins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There have been a considerable number of large-scale 'ethnic cleansings' undertaken since WWII by countries in good standing on the world stage...
> 
> 1. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old German province of East Prussia - forced by the Russians and the Poles - in the 1945-1947 timeframe.
> 
> 2. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old Bohemian province of Sudetenland - force by the Russians and the Czechs - in the 1945 - 1947 timeframe.
> 
> 3. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Hindus from newly-declared Pakistan, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.
> 
> 4. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Muslims from newly-independent India, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.
> 
> 5. the large-scale ethnic and religious cleansings undertaken by the Soviet Union (Germans, Cossacks, etc.) in the 1945-1951 timeframe.
> 
> 6. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of Greeks from Alexandria, Egypt during the 1957-1962 timeframe
> 
> 7. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of the descendants of Europeans from several African countries during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.
> 
> ...and on and on and on... a long list, indeed, since 1945 - most of them illegal, many of them unethical or distasteful, and a few of them more likely a practical necessity.
> 
> And, as distasteful (and theoretically illegal) as so-called 'ethnic cleansing' is, being the victim of a forcible expulsion is a damned sight better than being slaughtered in place.
> 
> At least a displaced person is still alive at the end of the sequence.
> 
> Unlike the fate of the Jews of Israel, according to the founding-charter documents of various Palestinian and related militant organizations, which have promised to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean if they ever get the chance.
> 
> Ethnic cleansing, as a deadlock-breaker?
> 
> Happens all the time, according to history - even within the realm of Living Memory - and some of it by good friends of ours - countries in good standing on the world stage - and much of that done by the Muslims themselves, to the Jews in the 1948-1975 timeframe.
> 
> If there is anything like that going on in Rump Palestine (what few scraps are left of it, anyway), then, it's the logical consequence of decades of Palestinian intransigence, dating back to the long periods of time in which the Israelis were still open to the idea of a viable and sustainable negotiated settlement.
> 
> Losers (militarily and politically) do not dictate terms, and the Palestinians could have had a modest country of their own, had they but abandoned the old Right of Return claim and let go of Jerusalem, but the Palestinians foolishly continued to insist upon those terms, and the Israelis gave up on dealing with the Palestinians eventually.
> 
> The result: Stalemate - Mexican Standoff - a Gordian Knot.
> 
> After years of trying to un-do that Gordian Knot, the Israelis have (finally, and long-overdue) decide to hack through the Knot, much as Alexander is rumored to have done.
> 
> That means continuing to squeeze the Palestinians long enough and hard enough so that they get the hint and leave.
> 
> I suppose it's possible that there is still time to reverse this course of action and for the Palestinians to eat a long-overdue slice of humble pie and come back to the negotiating table in good faith in a subordinate and inferior position, to see what can still be bargained-for or restored - recognizing Israel's right to exist - dropping claims to Right of Return - and letting go of Jerusalem - but they would do so, hat-in-hand, with the clear understanding that they are the losers, and cannot dictate terms.
> 
> Then again, it may simply be too late by now. Too much blood has flowed. Too much distrust and resentment has built up. Too many betrayals and killings have occurred.
> 
> It seems clear to outside observers, without a stake in all these proceedings, that Israel is slowly but surely creating a state along the lines of the old 1922 League of Nations partitioning proposal...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and, as we look at the Palestinians own propaganda maps of shrinking Palestinian-controlled lands...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...it also seems clear that the Jews of Israel are getting much closer to that (personal opinion-based, perceived) goal. Every year, the second map (above) looks more and more like the first. The symmetry between the two - and to the symmetry between the first map and the perceived historical extent of the dual kingdoms of Israel and Judah - and to the symmetry between the first map and the 'hard borders' of Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon - is inescapable.
> 
> The Arabs of Old Palestine / Transjordan already have their own State.
> 
> The Jews are merely pursuing theirs.
> 
> And, given the beating the Jews took in the Holocaust, much of the non-Muslim world is willing to let them do so, to some extent or another - doing so as a Penance for allowing the Holocaust to happen, and wanting to give the Jews at least one little sliver of the world that they can call their own - the sliver they once held, centuries ago.
> 
> The remaining Arab-Muslim Palestinians of the area are merely in the way of that goal; a goal which seems almost certain to be achieved in the not-too-distant future.
> 
> To borrow a line from an old Bill Cosby comedy routine: "Parents aren't interested in justice, they're interested in peace and quiet."
> 
> In connection with the Israel-Palestinian Conflict - beyond the domains of Islam - the world isn't interested in justice, it just wants this to go away.
> 
> Given that the Jews have the upper hand - by an order of magnitude - and that Losers do not dictate terms - it would be most efficacious if The World found a way to transplant the losing-side Palestinians elsewhere - given them a piece of the Sinai if Egypt is so willing, or scattering them amongst Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, etc. - and putting an end to this unnecessary decades-long and hopeless resistance to the macro-level plan of giving the Jews a home of their own again.
> 
> It's too late now to undo what has already been done, and there are clear Winners and Losers in this struggle.
> 
> And, the losers, having lost the coin-toss for first-bats, have to take the field first, in a 'suckers walk'.
> 
> The region simply isn't big enough to accommodate both Jews and Muslims any longer, in a situation in which the Jews rule the land.
> 
> And, given that the Jews (1) aren't going anywhere and (2) will never allow Palestinian demographics to overwhelm them, there is little left to do but to move the Palestinians elsewhere.
> 
> You can label that as ethnic cleansing or expulsion and eviction or whatever-the-hell you like, but, bottom line, it's a "sucker's walk" - with the losers getting out of Dodge, and starting new and far happier lives elsewhere, and with the 'parents' (the rest of the world) getting the 'peace and quiet' that they want as the outcome from all this.
> 
> This region and this conflict have occupied a vastly disproportionate amount of the world's attention, and the world, at large, is tired of it, and has been, for decades.
> 
> Time to cut the Gordian Knot - time to transplant the Palestinians elsewhere, with the full support and backing of the international community.
Click to expand...


It sure is starting to look familiar.


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> your  definition....there are no Jews in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So...if you consider this ethnic cleansing, you are effectively accusing Israel of ethnically cleansing Gaza...
> 
> The problem though lies in *"intent"*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you serious?  Do you actually believe that Israel is the one who is a country of genocidal maniacs?  Really?  You seem like an intelligent person, and I find it stunning that anyone with half a brain would believe this line of crap!!!???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read more carefully.  You're missing the context of what I am saying.
> 
> Also - ethnic cleansing is not always genocide.
> 
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic *forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous*. The forces applied may be *various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer)*, as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> If you support forcing the Palestinians out of Palestine - then that is ethnic cleansing.
Click to expand...


Well, why don't you accuse Palestine of it then?  They WANT ethnic cleansing of the Jews from the region, and they are willing to kill them all too.


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israeli police* evicting Israeli *settlers *from Gaza after a unilateral withdrawal isn't exactly "ethnic cleansing".  Nice try though.
> 
> A better example might be the forced expulsion of Jews from certain Arab countries during the formation of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> your  definition....there are no Jews in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> *ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous*. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So...if you consider this ethnic cleansing, you are effectively accusing Israel of ethnically cleansing Gaza...
> 
> The problem though lies in *"intent"*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is SO obvious.  I cannot believe that people are arguing that Israel is the one who wants to wipe out an entire people.  THAT is just not the case.  It is the other way around.  What is wrong with people?  Are they really SO blind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you want to remove an entire ethnic group from a land they have occupied for generations - then that is ethnic cleansing and that is what you claim to support.
Click to expand...


Israel gave up the Gaza strip.  I'm saying they should take it back.  Why shouldn't they?


----------



## montelatici

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> your  definition....there are no Jews in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So...if you consider this ethnic cleansing, you are effectively accusing Israel of ethnically cleansing Gaza...
> 
> The problem though lies in *"intent"*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is SO obvious.  I cannot believe that people are arguing that Israel is the one who wants to wipe out an entire people.  THAT is just not the case.  It is the other way around.  What is wrong with people?  Are they really SO blind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you want to remove an entire ethnic group from a land they have occupied for generations - then that is ethnic cleansing and that is what you claim to support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel gave up the Gaza strip.  I'm saying they should take it back.  Why shouldn't they?
Click to expand...


Palestine, including Gaza,  was inhabited by Muslims and Christians before the Jews invaded from Europe.  They gave back nothing.


----------



## Hossfly

montelatici said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...if you consider this ethnic cleansing, you are effectively accusing Israel of ethnically cleansing Gaza...
> 
> The problem though lies in *"intent"*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is SO obvious.  I cannot believe that people are arguing that Israel is the one who wants to wipe out an entire people.  THAT is just not the case.  It is the other way around.  What is wrong with people?  Are they really SO blind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you want to remove an entire ethnic group from a land they have occupied for generations - then that is ethnic cleansing and that is what you claim to support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel gave up the Gaza strip.  I'm saying they should take it back.  Why shouldn't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine, including Gaza,  was inhabited by Muslims and Christians before the Jews invaded from Europe.  They gave back nothing.
Click to expand...


----------



## ChrisL

montelatici said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...if you consider this ethnic cleansing, you are effectively accusing Israel of ethnically cleansing Gaza...
> 
> The problem though lies in *"intent"*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is SO obvious.  I cannot believe that people are arguing that Israel is the one who wants to wipe out an entire people.  THAT is just not the case.  It is the other way around.  What is wrong with people?  Are they really SO blind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you want to remove an entire ethnic group from a land they have occupied for generations - then that is ethnic cleansing and that is what you claim to support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel gave up the Gaza strip.  I'm saying they should take it back.  Why shouldn't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine, including Gaza,  was inhabited by Muslims and Christians before the Jews invaded from Europe.  They gave back nothing.
Click to expand...


They did not "invade" Europe.  That would be the Nazis.  The Nazis invaded Europe.  Get your historical data accurate.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is SO obvious.  I cannot believe that people are arguing that Israel is the one who wants to wipe out an entire people.  THAT is just not the case.  It is the other way around.  What is wrong with people?  Are they really SO blind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you want to remove an entire ethnic group from a land they have occupied for generations - then that is ethnic cleansing and that is what you claim to support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel gave up the Gaza strip.  I'm saying they should take it back.  Why shouldn't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine, including Gaza,  was inhabited by Muslims and Christians before the Jews invaded from Europe.  They gave back nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They did not "invade" Europe.  That would be the Nazis.  The Nazis invaded Europe.  Get your historical data accurate.
Click to expand...



Missed key word: "from"


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> Jroc said:
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> Coyote said:
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> Jroc said:
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> your  definition....there are no Jews in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So...if you consider this ethnic cleansing, you are effectively accusing Israel of ethnically cleansing Gaza...
> 
> The problem though lies in *"intent"*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is SO obvious.  I cannot believe that people are arguing that Israel is the one who wants to wipe out an entire people.  THAT is just not the case.  It is the other way around.  What is wrong with people?  Are they really SO blind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you want to remove an entire ethnic group from a land they have occupied for generations - then that is ethnic cleansing and that is what you claim to support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel gave up the Gaza strip.  I'm saying they should take it back.  Why shouldn't they?
Click to expand...


What has that got to do with what I said?  

As an aside: Gaza was occupied territory under international law.  You can't "give up" something that never belonged to you in the first place.


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## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> Coyote said:
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> Jroc said:
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> Coyote said:
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> So...if you consider this ethnic cleansing, you are effectively accusing Israel of ethnically cleansing Gaza...
> 
> The problem though lies in *"intent"*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you serious?  Do you actually believe that Israel is the one who is a country of genocidal maniacs?  Really?  You seem like an intelligent person, and I find it stunning that anyone with half a brain would believe this line of crap!!!???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read more carefully.  You're missing the context of what I am saying.
> 
> Also - ethnic cleansing is not always genocide.
> 
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic *forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous*. The forces applied may be *various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer)*, as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> If you support forcing the Palestinians out of Palestine - then that is ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, why don't you accuse Palestine of it then?  They WANT ethnic cleansing of the Jews from the region, and they are willing to kill them all too.
Click to expand...


The Palestinians are guilty of a lot of things but at the moment ethnic cleansing isn't one of them.  What they "want" and "rhetoric" isn't action taken.

If you want to get incensed about ethnic cleansing done by others towards Jews - look at what occurred during the establishment of Israel when Jews were expelled from Arab nations where they had resided for centuries more more.  And ask yourself - was that right?  Humane? Ethical?  If the answer is "no" then how can you support similar expulsions?

More ethnic cleansing: ISIS - religious minorities, Christians, Azidi's, Muslims without the proper credentials.  Recent history - Rwanda, Bosnia...all examples that included genocide.  Longer back - Stalin's forced relocations of people to dilute ethnic populations.  Lots of examples but right now - the Palestionians aren't.


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## Jroc

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
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> Coyote said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> Jroc said:
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> Coyote said:
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> 
> So...if you consider this ethnic cleansing, you are effectively accusing Israel of ethnically cleansing Gaza...
> 
> The problem though lies in *"intent"*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is SO obvious.  I cannot believe that people are arguing that Israel is the one who wants to wipe out an entire people.  THAT is just not the case.  It is the other way around.  What is wrong with people?  Are they really SO blind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you want to remove an entire ethnic group from a land they have occupied for generations - then that is ethnic cleansing and that is what you claim to support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel gave up the Gaza strip.  I'm saying they should take it back.  Why shouldn't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What has that got to do with what I said?
> 
> As an aside: Gaza was occupied territory under international law.  You can't "give up" something that never belonged to you in the first place.
Click to expand...

Yep "was" but it's been ethnically, no Jews ... Now it's terrorist state


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## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like how* every last Jew has been clensed from Gaza* despite the fact that Jews were living there millenia before the Palestinians were invented or how over 99% of Jews living in Arab lands have been clensed?
> 
> Quoting a definition of ethnic clensing is one thing. Apply the term properly is another.
Click to expand...


Were they forceably expelled by the Palestinians?

How about putting to rest the faux meme about Palestinians being"invented" - the name might be new but the people have been there as long as the Jews.

I already brought up the expulsion of Jews from Arab countries as an example (several times).

Do you support ethnic cleansing?


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## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
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> Coyote said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> Jroc said:
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> 
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> Coyote said:
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> 
> 
> So...if you consider this ethnic cleansing, you are effectively accusing Israel of ethnically cleansing Gaza...
> 
> The problem though lies in *"intent"*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is SO obvious.  I cannot believe that people are arguing that Israel is the one who wants to wipe out an entire people.  THAT is just not the case.  It is the other way around.  What is wrong with people?  Are they really SO blind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you want to remove an entire ethnic group from a land they have occupied for generations - then that is ethnic cleansing and that is what you claim to support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel gave up the Gaza strip.  I'm saying they should take it back.  Why shouldn't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What has that got to do with what I said?
> 
> As an aside: Gaza was occupied territory under international law.  You can't "give up" something that never belonged to you in the first place.
Click to expand...



Arab-Israeli Conflict History of Palestine Occupied Territories Status of Jerusalem

In May 1967, Egypt’s president Nasser *prepared *for another attack on Israel. He closed Israel’s only *route *to the sea and soldiers from all the Arab countries marched to Israel’s *border*. However, Israel attacked first and surprised its *enemies*. In a war that lasted only six days , Israel *defeated *the Arabs and took over some of their land:


the Golan Heights from Syria
the West Bank from Jordan
the Gaza Strip from Egypt.
It also took control of East Jerusalem.


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## Jroc

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
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> Coyote said:
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> Jroc said:
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> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
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> By Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you serious?  Do you actually believe that Israel is the one who is a country of genocidal maniacs?  Really?  You seem like an intelligent person, and I find it stunning that anyone with half a brain would believe this line of crap!!!???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read more carefully.  You're missing the context of what I am saying.
> 
> Also - ethnic cleansing is not always genocide.
> 
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic *forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous*. The forces applied may be *various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer)*, as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> If you support forcing the Palestinians out of Palestine - then that is ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, why don't you accuse Palestine of it then?  They WANT ethnic cleansing of the Jews from the region, and they are willing to kill them all too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are guilty of a lot of things but at the moment ethnic cleansing isn't one of them.  What they "want" and "rhetoric" isn't action taken.
> 
> If you want to get incensed about ethnic cleansing done by others towards Jews - look at what occurred during the establishment of Israel when Jews were expelled from Arab nations where they had resided for centuries more more.  And ask yourself - was that right?  Humane? Ethical?  If the answer is "no" then how can you support similar expulsions?
> 
> More ethnic cleansing: ISIS - religious minorities, Christians, Azidi's, Muslims without the proper credentials.  Recent history - Rwanda, Bosnia...all examples that included genocide.  Longer back - Stalin's forced relocations of people to dilute ethnic populations.  Lots of examples but right now - the Palestionians aren't.
Click to expand...



Jews cant live in Gaza they'd be slaughtered without the IDF .So yes *they've been ethnically cleansed by the Arabs.* They had to be. It was probably a mistake to pull out, but whats done, is done, no Jews


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## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
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> Coyote said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> Coyote said:
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> Jroc said:
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> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
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> 
> 
> 
> By Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you serious?  Do you actually believe that Israel is the one who is a country of genocidal maniacs?  Really?  You seem like an intelligent person, and I find it stunning that anyone with half a brain would believe this line of crap!!!???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read more carefully.  You're missing the context of what I am saying.
> 
> Also - ethnic cleansing is not always genocide.
> 
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic *forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous*. The forces applied may be *various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer)*, as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> If you support forcing the Palestinians out of Palestine - then that is ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, why don't you accuse Palestine of it then?  They WANT ethnic cleansing of the Jews from the region, and they are willing to kill them all too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are guilty of a lot of things but at the moment ethnic cleansing isn't one of them.  What they "want" and "rhetoric" isn't action taken.
> 
> If you want to get incensed about ethnic cleansing done by others towards Jews - look at what occurred during the establishment of Israel when Jews were expelled from Arab nations where they had resided for centuries more more.  And ask yourself - was that right?  Humane? Ethical?  If the answer is "no" then how can you support similar expulsions?
> 
> More ethnic cleansing: ISIS - religious minorities, Christians, Azidi's, Muslims without the proper credentials.  Recent history - Rwanda, Bosnia...all examples that included genocide.  Longer back - Stalin's forced relocations of people to dilute ethnic populations.  Lots of examples but right now - the Palestionians aren't.
Click to expand...


No they do not.  If you think they want peace, you are just fooling yourself.  It is quite obvious to anyone with EYES and EARS and a BRAIN that they are not looking for "peace."  It's NOT in their vocabulary.


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## toastman

montelatici said:


> ChrisL said:
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> Coyote said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> Jroc said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
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> 
> 
> So...if you consider this ethnic cleansing, you are effectively accusing Israel of ethnically cleansing Gaza...
> 
> The problem though lies in *"intent"*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is SO obvious.  I cannot believe that people are arguing that Israel is the one who wants to wipe out an entire people.  THAT is just not the case.  It is the other way around.  What is wrong with people?  Are they really SO blind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you want to remove an entire ethnic group from a land they have occupied for generations - then that is ethnic cleansing and that is what you claim to support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel gave up the Gaza strip.  I'm saying they should take it back.  Why shouldn't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine, including Gaza,  was inhabited by Muslims and Christians before the Jews invaded from Europe.  They gave back nothing.
Click to expand...




montelatici said:


> ChrisL said:
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> Coyote said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> Jroc said:
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> 
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> Coyote said:
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> 
> So...if you consider this ethnic cleansing, you are effectively accusing Israel of ethnically cleansing Gaza...
> 
> The problem though lies in *"intent"*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is SO obvious.  I cannot believe that people are arguing that Israel is the one who wants to wipe out an entire people.  THAT is just not the case.  It is the other way around.  What is wrong with people?  Are they really SO blind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you want to remove an entire ethnic group from a land they have occupied for generations - then that is ethnic cleansing and that is what you claim to support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel gave up the Gaza strip.  I'm saying they should take it back.  Why shouldn't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine, including Gaza,  was inhabited by Muslims and Christians before the Jews invaded from Europe.  They gave back nothing.
Click to expand...


en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion

Read the first paragraph. An invasion is a military offensive. There was no invasion you brainwashed idiot! Stop using words you don't know.


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## Coyote

Kondor3 said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
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> 
> Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like how every last Jew has been clensed from Gaza despite the fact that Jews were living there millenia before the Palestinians were invented or how over 99% of Jews living in Arab lands have been clensed?
> 
> Quoting a definition of ethnic clensing is one thing. Apply the term properly is another.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or along the lines of the en masse expulsions and deportations and pressuring-to-leave of Jews in various Muslim countries, during the 1948-1975 timeframe?
> 
> Payback's a bitch, ain't it? Especially when the payback is coming from the descendants of Dhimmis and their Euro-cousins.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> There have been a considerable number of large-scale 'ethnic cleansings' undertaken since WWII by countries in good standing on the world stage...
> 
> 1. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old German province of East Prussia - forced by the Russians and the Poles - in the 1945-1947 timeframe.
> 
> 2. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old Bohemian province of Sudetenland - force by the Russians and the Czechs - in the 1945 - 1947 timeframe.
> 
> 3. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Hindus from newly-declared Pakistan, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.
> 
> 4. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Muslims from newly-independent India, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.
> 
> 5. the large-scale ethnic and religious cleansings undertaken by the Soviet Union (Germans, Cossacks, etc.) in the 1945-1951 timeframe.
> 
> 6. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of Greeks from Alexandria, Egypt during the 1957-1962 timeframe
> 
> 7. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of the descendants of Europeans from several African countries during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.
> 
> ...and on and on and on... a long list, indeed, since 1945 - most of them illegal, many of them unethical or distasteful, and a few of them more likely a practical necessity.
> 
> And, as distasteful (and theoretically illegal) as so-called 'ethnic cleansing' is, being the victim of a forcible expulsion is a damned sight better than being slaughtered in place.
> 
> At least a displaced person is still alive at the end of the sequence.
> 
> Unlike the fate of the Jews of Israel, according to the founding-charter documents of various Palestinian and related militant organizations, which have promised to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean if they ever get the chance.
> 
> Ethnic cleansing, as a deadlock-breaker?
> 
> Happens all the time, according to history - even within the realm of Living Memory - and some of it by good friends of ours - countries in good standing on the world stage - and much of that done by the Muslims themselves, to the Jews in the 1948-1975 timeframe.
> 
> If there is anything like that going on in Rump Palestine (what few scraps are left of it, anyway), then, it's the logical consequence of decades of Palestinian intransigence, dating back to the long periods of time in which the Israelis were still open to the idea of a viable and sustainable negotiated settlement.
> 
> Losers (militarily and politically) do not dictate terms, and the Palestinians could have had a modest country of their own, had they but abandoned the old Right of Return claim and let go of Jerusalem, but the Palestinians foolishly continued to insist upon those terms, and the Israelis gave up on dealing with the Palestinians eventually.
> 
> The result: Stalemate - Mexican Standoff - a Gordian Knot.
> 
> After years of trying to un-do that Gordian Knot, the Israelis have (finally, and long-overdue) decide to hack through the Knot, much as Alexander is rumored to have done.
> 
> That means continuing to squeeze the Palestinians long enough and hard enough so that they get the hint and leave.
> 
> I suppose it's possible that there is still time to reverse this course of action and for the Palestinians to eat a long-overdue slice of humble pie and come back to the negotiating table in good faith in a subordinate and inferior position, to see what can still be bargained-for or restored - recognizing Israel's right to exist - dropping claims to Right of Return - and letting go of Jerusalem - but they would do so, hat-in-hand, with the clear understanding that they are the losers, and cannot dictate terms.
> 
> Then again, it may simply be too late by now. Too much blood has flowed. Too much distrust and resentment has built up. Too many betrayals and killings have occurred.
> 
> It seems clear to outside observers, without a stake in all these proceedings, that Israel is slowly but surely creating a state along the lines of the old 1922 League of Nations partitioning proposal...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and, as we look at the Palestinians own propaganda maps of shrinking Palestinian-controlled lands...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...it also seems clear that the Jews of Israel are getting much closer to that (personal opinion-based, perceived) goal. Every year, the second map (above) looks more and more like the first. The symmetry between the two - and to the symmetry between the first map and the perceived historical extent of the dual kingdoms of Israel and Judah - and to the symmetry between the first map and the 'hard borders' of Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon - is inescapable.
> 
> The Arabs of Old Palestine / Transjordan already have their own State.
> 
> The Jews are merely pursuing theirs.
> 
> And, given the beating the Jews took in the Holocaust, much of the non-Muslim world is willing to let them do so, to some extent or another - doing so as a Penance for allowing the Holocaust to happen, and wanting to give the Jews at least one little sliver of the world that they can call their own - the sliver they once held, centuries ago.
> 
> The remaining Arab-Muslim Palestinians of the area are merely in the way of that goal; a goal which seems almost certain to be achieved in the not-too-distant future.
> 
> To borrow a line from an old Bill Cosby comedy routine: "Parents aren't interested in justice, they're interested in peace and quiet."
> 
> In connection with the Israel-Palestinian Conflict - beyond the domains of Islam - the world isn't interested in justice, it just wants this to go away.
> 
> Given that the Jews have the upper hand - by an order of magnitude - and that Losers do not dictate terms - it would be most efficacious if The World found a way to transplant the losing-side Palestinians elsewhere - given them a piece of the Sinai if Egypt is so willing, or scattering them amongst Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, etc. - and putting an end to this unnecessary decades-long and hopeless resistance to the macro-level plan of giving the Jews a home of their own again.
> 
> It's too late now to undo what has already been done, and there are clear Winners and Losers in this struggle.
> 
> And, the losers, having lost the coin-toss for first-bats, have to take the field first, in a 'suckers walk'.
> 
> The region simply isn't big enough to accommodate both Jews and Muslims any longer, in a situation in which the Jews rule the land.
> 
> And, given that the Jews (1) aren't going anywhere and (2) will never allow Palestinian demographics to overwhelm them, there is little left to do but to move the Palestinians elsewhere.
> 
> You can label that as ethnic cleansing or expulsion and eviction or whatever-the-hell you like, but, bottom line, it's a "sucker's walk" - with the losers getting out of Dodge, and starting new and far happier lives elsewhere, and with the 'parents' (the rest of the world) getting the 'peace and quiet' that they want as the outcome from all this.
> 
> This region and this conflict have occupied a vastly disproportionate amount of the world's attention, and the world, at large, is tired of it, and has been, for decades.
> 
> Time to cut the Gordian Knot - time to transplant the Palestinians elsewhere, with the full support and backing of the international community.
Click to expand...


I had already brought up the explusion of the Jews from Arab countries. The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities... Page 8 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Pretty much - regardless of you you try to justify it - ethnic cleansing is WRONG.  It's destroying innocent people.  It's a human rights violation.  If you support it then you're in the same league the Serbs cleansing Bosnia, the Arab nations expelling the Jews, Stalin forceably relocating ethnic minorities to Siberia in order to dilute them and a whole range of other delightful figures. 

The only way it can be justified is by regarding the group being targeted as "less than".

Edited to add:  Places mean something.  People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation, culture and family.  They aren't pawns to be "relocated" so you can move in a set of new people.


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## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> Coyote said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> Coyote said:
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> By Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you serious?  Do you actually believe that Israel is the one who is a country of genocidal maniacs?  Really?  You seem like an intelligent person, and I find it stunning that anyone with half a brain would believe this line of crap!!!???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read more carefully.  You're missing the context of what I am saying.
> 
> Also - ethnic cleansing is not always genocide.
> 
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic *forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous*. The forces applied may be *various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer)*, as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> If you support forcing the Palestinians out of Palestine - then that is ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, why don't you accuse Palestine of it then?  They WANT ethnic cleansing of the Jews from the region, and they are willing to kill them all too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are guilty of a lot of things but at the moment ethnic cleansing isn't one of them.  What they "want" and "rhetoric" isn't action taken.
> 
> If you want to get incensed about ethnic cleansing done by others towards Jews - look at what occurred during the establishment of Israel when Jews were expelled from Arab nations where they had resided for centuries more more.  And ask yourself - was that right?  Humane? Ethical?  If the answer is "no" then how can you support similar expulsions?
> 
> More ethnic cleansing: ISIS - religious minorities, Christians, Azidi's, Muslims without the proper credentials.  Recent history - Rwanda, Bosnia...all examples that included genocide.  Longer back - Stalin's forced relocations of people to dilute ethnic populations.  Lots of examples but right now - the Palestionians aren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No they do not.  If you think they want peace, you are just fooling yourself.  It is quite obvious to anyone with EYES and EARS and a BRAIN that they are not looking for "peace."  It's NOT in their vocabulary.
Click to expand...


Do you support ethnic cleansing?


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## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like how every last Jew has been clensed from Gaza despite the fact that Jews were living there millenia before the Palestinians were invented or how over 99% of Jews living in Arab lands have been clensed?
> 
> Quoting a definition of ethnic clensing is one thing. Apply the term properly is another.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or along the lines of the en masse expulsions and deportations and pressuring-to-leave of Jews in various Muslim countries, during the 1948-1975 timeframe?
> 
> Payback's a bitch, ain't it? Especially when the payback is coming from the descendants of Dhimmis and their Euro-cousins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There have been a considerable number of large-scale 'ethnic cleansings' undertaken since WWII by countries in good standing on the world stage...
> 
> 1. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old German province of East Prussia - forced by the Russians and the Poles - in the 1945-1947 timeframe.
> 
> 2. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old Bohemian province of Sudetenland - force by the Russians and the Czechs - in the 1945 - 1947 timeframe.
> 
> 3. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Hindus from newly-declared Pakistan, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.
> 
> 4. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Muslims from newly-independent India, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.
> 
> 5. the large-scale ethnic and religious cleansings undertaken by the Soviet Union (Germans, Cossacks, etc.) in the 1945-1951 timeframe.
> 
> 6. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of Greeks from Alexandria, Egypt during the 1957-1962 timeframe
> 
> 7. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of the descendants of Europeans from several African countries during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.
> 
> ...and on and on and on... a long list, indeed, since 1945 - most of them illegal, many of them unethical or distasteful, and a few of them more likely a practical necessity.
> 
> And, as distasteful (and theoretically illegal) as so-called 'ethnic cleansing' is, being the victim of a forcible expulsion is a damned sight better than being slaughtered in place.
> 
> At least a displaced person is still alive at the end of the sequence.
> 
> Unlike the fate of the Jews of Israel, according to the founding-charter documents of various Palestinian and related militant organizations, which have promised to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean if they ever get the chance.
> 
> Ethnic cleansing, as a deadlock-breaker?
> 
> Happens all the time, according to history - even within the realm of Living Memory - and some of it by good friends of ours - countries in good standing on the world stage - and much of that done by the Muslims themselves, to the Jews in the 1948-1975 timeframe.
> 
> If there is anything like that going on in Rump Palestine (what few scraps are left of it, anyway), then, it's the logical consequence of decades of Palestinian intransigence, dating back to the long periods of time in which the Israelis were still open to the idea of a viable and sustainable negotiated settlement.
> 
> Losers (militarily and politically) do not dictate terms, and the Palestinians could have had a modest country of their own, had they but abandoned the old Right of Return claim and let go of Jerusalem, but the Palestinians foolishly continued to insist upon those terms, and the Israelis gave up on dealing with the Palestinians eventually.
> 
> The result: Stalemate - Mexican Standoff - a Gordian Knot.
> 
> After years of trying to un-do that Gordian Knot, the Israelis have (finally, and long-overdue) decide to hack through the Knot, much as Alexander is rumored to have done.
> 
> That means continuing to squeeze the Palestinians long enough and hard enough so that they get the hint and leave.
> 
> I suppose it's possible that there is still time to reverse this course of action and for the Palestinians to eat a long-overdue slice of humble pie and come back to the negotiating table in good faith in a subordinate and inferior position, to see what can still be bargained-for or restored - recognizing Israel's right to exist - dropping claims to Right of Return - and letting go of Jerusalem - but they would do so, hat-in-hand, with the clear understanding that they are the losers, and cannot dictate terms.
> 
> Then again, it may simply be too late by now. Too much blood has flowed. Too much distrust and resentment has built up. Too many betrayals and killings have occurred.
> 
> It seems clear to outside observers, without a stake in all these proceedings, that Israel is slowly but surely creating a state along the lines of the old 1922 League of Nations partitioning proposal...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and, as we look at the Palestinians own propaganda maps of shrinking Palestinian-controlled lands...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...it also seems clear that the Jews of Israel are getting much closer to that (personal opinion-based, perceived) goal. Every year, the second map (above) looks more and more like the first. The symmetry between the two - and to the symmetry between the first map and the perceived historical extent of the dual kingdoms of Israel and Judah - and to the symmetry between the first map and the 'hard borders' of Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon - is inescapable.
> 
> The Arabs of Old Palestine / Transjordan already have their own State.
> 
> The Jews are merely pursuing theirs.
> 
> And, given the beating the Jews took in the Holocaust, much of the non-Muslim world is willing to let them do so, to some extent or another - doing so as a Penance for allowing the Holocaust to happen, and wanting to give the Jews at least one little sliver of the world that they can call their own - the sliver they once held, centuries ago.
> 
> The remaining Arab-Muslim Palestinians of the area are merely in the way of that goal; a goal which seems almost certain to be achieved in the not-too-distant future.
> 
> To borrow a line from an old Bill Cosby comedy routine: "Parents aren't interested in justice, they're interested in peace and quiet."
> 
> In connection with the Israel-Palestinian Conflict - beyond the domains of Islam - the world isn't interested in justice, it just wants this to go away.
> 
> Given that the Jews have the upper hand - by an order of magnitude - and that Losers do not dictate terms - it would be most efficacious if The World found a way to transplant the losing-side Palestinians elsewhere - given them a piece of the Sinai if Egypt is so willing, or scattering them amongst Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, etc. - and putting an end to this unnecessary decades-long and hopeless resistance to the macro-level plan of giving the Jews a home of their own again.
> 
> It's too late now to undo what has already been done, and there are clear Winners and Losers in this struggle.
> 
> And, the losers, having lost the coin-toss for first-bats, have to take the field first, in a 'suckers walk'.
> 
> The region simply isn't big enough to accommodate both Jews and Muslims any longer, in a situation in which the Jews rule the land.
> 
> And, given that the Jews (1) aren't going anywhere and (2) will never allow Palestinian demographics to overwhelm them, there is little left to do but to move the Palestinians elsewhere.
> 
> You can label that as ethnic cleansing or expulsion and eviction or whatever-the-hell you like, but, bottom line, it's a "sucker's walk" - with the losers getting out of Dodge, and starting new and far happier lives elsewhere, and with the 'parents' (the rest of the world) getting the 'peace and quiet' that they want as the outcome from all this.
> 
> This region and this conflict have occupied a vastly disproportionate amount of the world's attention, and the world, at large, is tired of it, and has been, for decades.
> 
> Time to cut the Gordian Knot - time to transplant the Palestinians elsewhere, with the full support and backing of the international community.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I had already brought up the explusion of the Jews from Arab countries. The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities... Page 8 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> Pretty much - regardless of you you try to justify it - ethnic cleansing is WRONG.  It's destroying innocent people.  It's a human rights violation.  If you support it then you're in the same league the Serbs cleansing Bosnia, the Arab nations expelling the Jews, Stalin forceably relocating ethnic minorities to Siberia in order to dilute them and a whole range of other delightful figures.
> 
> The only way it can be justified is by regarding the group being targeted as "less than".
Click to expand...


You are wrong because in the examples you give above, those people were not lobbing bombs into the countries and attacking their citizens.  

They are NOT "innocent" people.  Their actions are an act of war against Israel.  Israel should expel them because they are nothing but trouble, have been and will continue to be.  Israel should NOT risk it's citizens safety.


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you serious?  Do you actually believe that Israel is the one who is a country of genocidal maniacs?  Really?  You seem like an intelligent person, and I find it stunning that anyone with half a brain would believe this line of crap!!!???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read more carefully.  You're missing the context of what I am saying.
> 
> Also - ethnic cleansing is not always genocide.
> 
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic *forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous*. The forces applied may be *various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer)*, as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> If you support forcing the Palestinians out of Palestine - then that is ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, why don't you accuse Palestine of it then?  They WANT ethnic cleansing of the Jews from the region, and they are willing to kill them all too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are guilty of a lot of things but at the moment ethnic cleansing isn't one of them.  What they "want" and "rhetoric" isn't action taken.
> 
> If you want to get incensed about ethnic cleansing done by others towards Jews - look at what occurred during the establishment of Israel when Jews were expelled from Arab nations where they had resided for centuries more more.  And ask yourself - was that right?  Humane? Ethical?  If the answer is "no" then how can you support similar expulsions?
> 
> More ethnic cleansing: ISIS - religious minorities, Christians, Azidi's, Muslims without the proper credentials.  Recent history - Rwanda, Bosnia...all examples that included genocide.  Longer back - Stalin's forced relocations of people to dilute ethnic populations.  Lots of examples but right now - the Palestionians aren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No they do not.  If you think they want peace, you are just fooling yourself.  It is quite obvious to anyone with EYES and EARS and a BRAIN that they are not looking for "peace."  It's NOT in their vocabulary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you support ethnic cleansing?
Click to expand...


Look how you try to use this word as if it's a weapon.  Your liberal tactics are completely transparent.  Lol!  It's like "have you stopped beating your wife?"  

FAIL bucket.  

Try something else.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Read more carefully.  You're missing the context of what I am saying.
> 
> Also - ethnic cleansing is not always genocide.
> 
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic *forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous*. The forces applied may be *various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer)*, as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> If you support forcing the Palestinians out of Palestine - then that is ethnic cleansing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, why don't you accuse Palestine of it then?  They WANT ethnic cleansing of the Jews from the region, and they are willing to kill them all too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are guilty of a lot of things but at the moment ethnic cleansing isn't one of them.  What they "want" and "rhetoric" isn't action taken.
> 
> If you want to get incensed about ethnic cleansing done by others towards Jews - look at what occurred during the establishment of Israel when Jews were expelled from Arab nations where they had resided for centuries more more.  And ask yourself - was that right?  Humane? Ethical?  If the answer is "no" then how can you support similar expulsions?
> 
> More ethnic cleansing: ISIS - religious minorities, Christians, Azidi's, Muslims without the proper credentials.  Recent history - Rwanda, Bosnia...all examples that included genocide.  Longer back - Stalin's forced relocations of people to dilute ethnic populations.  Lots of examples but right now - the Palestionians aren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No they do not.  If you think they want peace, you are just fooling yourself.  It is quite obvious to anyone with EYES and EARS and a BRAIN that they are not looking for "peace."  It's NOT in their vocabulary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you support ethnic cleansing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look how you try to use this word as if it's a weapon.  Your liberal tactics are completely transparent.  Lol!  It's like "have you stopped beating your wife?"
> 
> FAIL bucket.
> 
> Try something else.
Click to expand...


Do you support ethnic cleansing?  It's a straightforward question.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like how every last Jew has been clensed from Gaza despite the fact that Jews were living there millenia before the Palestinians were invented or how over 99% of Jews living in Arab lands have been clensed?
> 
> Quoting a definition of ethnic clensing is one thing. Apply the term properly is another.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or along the lines of the en masse expulsions and deportations and pressuring-to-leave of Jews in various Muslim countries, during the 1948-1975 timeframe?
> 
> Payback's a bitch, ain't it? Especially when the payback is coming from the descendants of Dhimmis and their Euro-cousins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There have been a considerable number of large-scale 'ethnic cleansings' undertaken since WWII by countries in good standing on the world stage...
> 
> 1. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old German province of East Prussia - forced by the Russians and the Poles - in the 1945-1947 timeframe.
> 
> 2. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old Bohemian province of Sudetenland - force by the Russians and the Czechs - in the 1945 - 1947 timeframe.
> 
> 3. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Hindus from newly-declared Pakistan, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.
> 
> 4. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Muslims from newly-independent India, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.
> 
> 5. the large-scale ethnic and religious cleansings undertaken by the Soviet Union (Germans, Cossacks, etc.) in the 1945-1951 timeframe.
> 
> 6. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of Greeks from Alexandria, Egypt during the 1957-1962 timeframe
> 
> 7. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of the descendants of Europeans from several African countries during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.
> 
> ...and on and on and on... a long list, indeed, since 1945 - most of them illegal, many of them unethical or distasteful, and a few of them more likely a practical necessity.
> 
> And, as distasteful (and theoretically illegal) as so-called 'ethnic cleansing' is, being the victim of a forcible expulsion is a damned sight better than being slaughtered in place.
> 
> At least a displaced person is still alive at the end of the sequence.
> 
> Unlike the fate of the Jews of Israel, according to the founding-charter documents of various Palestinian and related militant organizations, which have promised to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean if they ever get the chance.
> 
> Ethnic cleansing, as a deadlock-breaker?
> 
> Happens all the time, according to history - even within the realm of Living Memory - and some of it by good friends of ours - countries in good standing on the world stage - and much of that done by the Muslims themselves, to the Jews in the 1948-1975 timeframe.
> 
> If there is anything like that going on in Rump Palestine (what few scraps are left of it, anyway), then, it's the logical consequence of decades of Palestinian intransigence, dating back to the long periods of time in which the Israelis were still open to the idea of a viable and sustainable negotiated settlement.
> 
> Losers (militarily and politically) do not dictate terms, and the Palestinians could have had a modest country of their own, had they but abandoned the old Right of Return claim and let go of Jerusalem, but the Palestinians foolishly continued to insist upon those terms, and the Israelis gave up on dealing with the Palestinians eventually.
> 
> The result: Stalemate - Mexican Standoff - a Gordian Knot.
> 
> After years of trying to un-do that Gordian Knot, the Israelis have (finally, and long-overdue) decide to hack through the Knot, much as Alexander is rumored to have done.
> 
> That means continuing to squeeze the Palestinians long enough and hard enough so that they get the hint and leave.
> 
> I suppose it's possible that there is still time to reverse this course of action and for the Palestinians to eat a long-overdue slice of humble pie and come back to the negotiating table in good faith in a subordinate and inferior position, to see what can still be bargained-for or restored - recognizing Israel's right to exist - dropping claims to Right of Return - and letting go of Jerusalem - but they would do so, hat-in-hand, with the clear understanding that they are the losers, and cannot dictate terms.
> 
> Then again, it may simply be too late by now. Too much blood has flowed. Too much distrust and resentment has built up. Too many betrayals and killings have occurred.
> 
> It seems clear to outside observers, without a stake in all these proceedings, that Israel is slowly but surely creating a state along the lines of the old 1922 League of Nations partitioning proposal...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and, as we look at the Palestinians own propaganda maps of shrinking Palestinian-controlled lands...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...it also seems clear that the Jews of Israel are getting much closer to that (personal opinion-based, perceived) goal. Every year, the second map (above) looks more and more like the first. The symmetry between the two - and to the symmetry between the first map and the perceived historical extent of the dual kingdoms of Israel and Judah - and to the symmetry between the first map and the 'hard borders' of Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon - is inescapable.
> 
> The Arabs of Old Palestine / Transjordan already have their own State.
> 
> The Jews are merely pursuing theirs.
> 
> And, given the beating the Jews took in the Holocaust, much of the non-Muslim world is willing to let them do so, to some extent or another - doing so as a Penance for allowing the Holocaust to happen, and wanting to give the Jews at least one little sliver of the world that they can call their own - the sliver they once held, centuries ago.
> 
> The remaining Arab-Muslim Palestinians of the area are merely in the way of that goal; a goal which seems almost certain to be achieved in the not-too-distant future.
> 
> To borrow a line from an old Bill Cosby comedy routine: "Parents aren't interested in justice, they're interested in peace and quiet."
> 
> In connection with the Israel-Palestinian Conflict - beyond the domains of Islam - the world isn't interested in justice, it just wants this to go away.
> 
> Given that the Jews have the upper hand - by an order of magnitude - and that Losers do not dictate terms - it would be most efficacious if The World found a way to transplant the losing-side Palestinians elsewhere - given them a piece of the Sinai if Egypt is so willing, or scattering them amongst Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, etc. - and putting an end to this unnecessary decades-long and hopeless resistance to the macro-level plan of giving the Jews a home of their own again.
> 
> It's too late now to undo what has already been done, and there are clear Winners and Losers in this struggle.
> 
> And, the losers, having lost the coin-toss for first-bats, have to take the field first, in a 'suckers walk'.
> 
> The region simply isn't big enough to accommodate both Jews and Muslims any longer, in a situation in which the Jews rule the land.
> 
> And, given that the Jews (1) aren't going anywhere and (2) will never allow Palestinian demographics to overwhelm them, there is little left to do but to move the Palestinians elsewhere.
> 
> You can label that as ethnic cleansing or expulsion and eviction or whatever-the-hell you like, but, bottom line, it's a "sucker's walk" - with the losers getting out of Dodge, and starting new and far happier lives elsewhere, and with the 'parents' (the rest of the world) getting the 'peace and quiet' that they want as the outcome from all this.
> 
> This region and this conflict have occupied a vastly disproportionate amount of the world's attention, and the world, at large, is tired of it, and has been, for decades.
> 
> Time to cut the Gordian Knot - time to transplant the Palestinians elsewhere, with the full support and backing of the international community.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I had already brought up the explusion of the Jews from Arab countries. The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities... Page 8 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> Pretty much - regardless of you you try to justify it - ethnic cleansing is WRONG.  It's destroying innocent people.  It's a human rights violation.  If you support it then you're in the same league the Serbs cleansing Bosnia, the Arab nations expelling the Jews, Stalin forceably relocating ethnic minorities to Siberia in order to dilute them and a whole range of other delightful figures.
> 
> The only way it can be justified is by regarding the group being targeted as "less than".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are wrong because in the examples you give above, those people were not lobbing bombs into the countries and attacking their citizens.
Click to expand...


No.  I'm not wrong.  They are stateless.  Give them a state.  Stop trying to "cleanse them" from the areas they traditionally occupy.  Once they have a state they will have to behave or be considered a pariah in the international community.  Of course if your plan is to cleanse them from all the area that they occupy so you can take their land then that's another point entirely.



> They are NOT "innocent" people.  Their actions are an act of war against Israel.  Israel should expel them because they are nothing but trouble, have been and will continue to be.  Israel should NOT risk it's citizens safety.



They're actions might be an act of war but they are also a people under occupation and there is such a thing as legitimate resistance.  Just like I can't imagine any nation allowing rockets to be lobbed into it's civilian areas without retaliation neither can I imagine a people living under occupation and just accepting it - "yes masta..you want my olive grove for your "settlers"...sure go right ahead".

Ethnic cleansing is never justifiable.


----------



## Kondor3

Coyote said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like how every last Jew has been clensed from Gaza despite the fact that Jews were living there millenia before the Palestinians were invented or how over 99% of Jews living in Arab lands have been clensed?
> 
> Quoting a definition of ethnic clensing is one thing. Apply the term properly is another.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or along the lines of the en masse expulsions and deportations and pressuring-to-leave of Jews in various Muslim countries, during the 1948-1975 timeframe?
> 
> Payback's a bitch, ain't it? Especially when the payback is coming from the descendants of Dhimmis and their Euro-cousins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There have been a considerable number of large-scale 'ethnic cleansings' undertaken since WWII by countries in good standing on the world stage...
> 
> 1. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old German province of East Prussia - forced by the Russians and the Poles - in the 1945-1947 timeframe.
> 
> 2. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old Bohemian province of Sudetenland - force by the Russians and the Czechs - in the 1945 - 1947 timeframe.
> 
> 3. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Hindus from newly-declared Pakistan, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.
> 
> 4. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Muslims from newly-independent India, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.
> 
> 5. the large-scale ethnic and religious cleansings undertaken by the Soviet Union (Germans, Cossacks, etc.) in the 1945-1951 timeframe.
> 
> 6. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of Greeks from Alexandria, Egypt during the 1957-1962 timeframe
> 
> 7. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of the descendants of Europeans from several African countries during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.
> 
> ...and on and on and on... a long list, indeed, since 1945 - most of them illegal, many of them unethical or distasteful, and a few of them more likely a practical necessity.
> 
> And, as distasteful (and theoretically illegal) as so-called 'ethnic cleansing' is, being the victim of a forcible expulsion is a damned sight better than being slaughtered in place.
> 
> At least a displaced person is still alive at the end of the sequence.
> 
> Unlike the fate of the Jews of Israel, according to the founding-charter documents of various Palestinian and related militant organizations, which have promised to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean if they ever get the chance.
> 
> Ethnic cleansing, as a deadlock-breaker?
> 
> Happens all the time, according to history - even within the realm of Living Memory - and some of it by good friends of ours - countries in good standing on the world stage - and much of that done by the Muslims themselves, to the Jews in the 1948-1975 timeframe.
> 
> If there is anything like that going on in Rump Palestine (what few scraps are left of it, anyway), then, it's the logical consequence of decades of Palestinian intransigence, dating back to the long periods of time in which the Israelis were still open to the idea of a viable and sustainable negotiated settlement.
> 
> Losers (militarily and politically) do not dictate terms, and the Palestinians could have had a modest country of their own, had they but abandoned the old Right of Return claim and let go of Jerusalem, but the Palestinians foolishly continued to insist upon those terms, and the Israelis gave up on dealing with the Palestinians eventually.
> 
> The result: Stalemate - Mexican Standoff - a Gordian Knot.
> 
> After years of trying to un-do that Gordian Knot, the Israelis have (finally, and long-overdue) decide to hack through the Knot, much as Alexander is rumored to have done.
> 
> That means continuing to squeeze the Palestinians long enough and hard enough so that they get the hint and leave.
> 
> I suppose it's possible that there is still time to reverse this course of action and for the Palestinians to eat a long-overdue slice of humble pie and come back to the negotiating table in good faith in a subordinate and inferior position, to see what can still be bargained-for or restored - recognizing Israel's right to exist - dropping claims to Right of Return - and letting go of Jerusalem - but they would do so, hat-in-hand, with the clear understanding that they are the losers, and cannot dictate terms.
> 
> Then again, it may simply be too late by now. Too much blood has flowed. Too much distrust and resentment has built up. Too many betrayals and killings have occurred.
> 
> It seems clear to outside observers, without a stake in all these proceedings, that Israel is slowly but surely creating a state along the lines of the old 1922 League of Nations partitioning proposal...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and, as we look at the Palestinians own propaganda maps of shrinking Palestinian-controlled lands...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...it also seems clear that the Jews of Israel are getting much closer to that (personal opinion-based, perceived) goal. Every year, the second map (above) looks more and more like the first. The symmetry between the two - and to the symmetry between the first map and the perceived historical extent of the dual kingdoms of Israel and Judah - and to the symmetry between the first map and the 'hard borders' of Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon - is inescapable.
> 
> The Arabs of Old Palestine / Transjordan already have their own State.
> 
> The Jews are merely pursuing theirs.
> 
> And, given the beating the Jews took in the Holocaust, much of the non-Muslim world is willing to let them do so, to some extent or another - doing so as a Penance for allowing the Holocaust to happen, and wanting to give the Jews at least one little sliver of the world that they can call their own - the sliver they once held, centuries ago.
> 
> The remaining Arab-Muslim Palestinians of the area are merely in the way of that goal; a goal which seems almost certain to be achieved in the not-too-distant future.
> 
> To borrow a line from an old Bill Cosby comedy routine: "Parents aren't interested in justice, they're interested in peace and quiet."
> 
> In connection with the Israel-Palestinian Conflict - beyond the domains of Islam - the world isn't interested in justice, it just wants this to go away.
> 
> Given that the Jews have the upper hand - by an order of magnitude - and that Losers do not dictate terms - it would be most efficacious if The World found a way to transplant the losing-side Palestinians elsewhere - given them a piece of the Sinai if Egypt is so willing, or scattering them amongst Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, etc. - and putting an end to this unnecessary decades-long and hopeless resistance to the macro-level plan of giving the Jews a home of their own again.
> 
> It's too late now to undo what has already been done, and there are clear Winners and Losers in this struggle.
> 
> And, the losers, having lost the coin-toss for first-bats, have to take the field first, in a 'suckers walk'.
> 
> The region simply isn't big enough to accommodate both Jews and Muslims any longer, in a situation in which the Jews rule the land.
> 
> And, given that the Jews (1) aren't going anywhere and (2) will never allow Palestinian demographics to overwhelm them, there is little left to do but to move the Palestinians elsewhere.
> 
> You can label that as ethnic cleansing or expulsion and eviction or whatever-the-hell you like, but, bottom line, it's a "sucker's walk" - with the losers getting out of Dodge, and starting new and far happier lives elsewhere, and with the 'parents' (the rest of the world) getting the 'peace and quiet' that they want as the outcome from all this.
> 
> This region and this conflict have occupied a vastly disproportionate amount of the world's attention, and the world, at large, is tired of it, and has been, for decades.
> 
> Time to cut the Gordian Knot - time to transplant the Palestinians elsewhere, with the full support and backing of the international community.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I had already brought up the explusion of the Jews from Arab countries. The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities... Page 8 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> Pretty much - regardless of you you try to justify it - ethnic cleansing is WRONG.  It's destroying innocent people.  It's a human rights violation.  If you support it then you're in the same league the Serbs cleansing Bosnia, the Arab nations expelling the Jews, Stalin forceably relocating ethnic minorities to Siberia in order to dilute them and a whole range of other delightful figures.
> 
> The only way it can be justified is by regarding the group being targeted as "less than".
> 
> Edited to add:  Places mean something.  People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation, culture and family.  They aren't pawns to be "relocated" so you can move in a set of new people.
Click to expand...

Oh, I agree that it's wrong.

It's just not *as* wrong as slaughtering the subjects of the discussion.

Helluvan exercise in Moral Relativism, to be sure.

But the way that usually happens is that the current crop of folks determine to take that sin upon their own shoulders so that their own people and descendants can live a better life, without the constant bickering.

Personally, I don't support it, from a moral perspective - it's damned tough to justify and I'm not up to that - but I can see how easily it could happen, in a situation in which there are no other viable options remaining, and it becomes and Us-or-Them kind of political and moral decision.

Frankly, the best option would be for the international community to relocate the Palestinians peacefully, but that doesn't seem likely either.

So, ultimately, with the Israelis already in Us-or-Them mode, they'll choose 'Us'.

Damned shame, but it's understandable, and, at this late juncture, probably nearly inevitable.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> Were they forceably expelled by the Palestinians?
> 
> How about putting to rest the faux meme about Palestinians being"invented" - the name might be new but the people have been there as long as the Jews.
> 
> I already brought up the expulsion of Jews from Arab countries as an example (several times).
> 
> Do you support ethnic cleansing?



Why do you need to lie so much in order for your propaganda to work?

"Palestinians" are simply Arabs, and Arabs most definitely HAVE indulged in ethnic clensing. Palestinians  DID NOT exist as a people with any sort of ethnic identity until this was created as a propaganda tool several decades ago.  

 They should continue to live in the land in which they were actually born, and if they should ever wish to start behaving like humans,should be able to have a sense of self determination in that land. 

...which is not in the state of Israel.


----------



## Coyote

Kondor3 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like how every last Jew has been clensed from Gaza despite the fact that Jews were living there millenia before the Palestinians were invented or how over 99% of Jews living in Arab lands have been clensed?
> 
> Quoting a definition of ethnic clensing is one thing. Apply the term properly is another.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or along the lines of the en masse expulsions and deportations and pressuring-to-leave of Jews in various Muslim countries, during the 1948-1975 timeframe?
> 
> Payback's a bitch, ain't it? Especially when the payback is coming from the descendants of Dhimmis and their Euro-cousins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There have been a considerable number of large-scale 'ethnic cleansings' undertaken since WWII by countries in good standing on the world stage...
> 
> 1. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old German province of East Prussia - forced by the Russians and the Poles - in the 1945-1947 timeframe.
> 
> 2. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old Bohemian province of Sudetenland - force by the Russians and the Czechs - in the 1945 - 1947 timeframe.
> 
> 3. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Hindus from newly-declared Pakistan, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.
> 
> 4. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Muslims from newly-independent India, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.
> 
> 5. the large-scale ethnic and religious cleansings undertaken by the Soviet Union (Germans, Cossacks, etc.) in the 1945-1951 timeframe.
> 
> 6. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of Greeks from Alexandria, Egypt during the 1957-1962 timeframe
> 
> 7. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of the descendants of Europeans from several African countries during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.
> 
> ...and on and on and on... a long list, indeed, since 1945 - most of them illegal, many of them unethical or distasteful, and a few of them more likely a practical necessity.
> 
> And, as distasteful (and theoretically illegal) as so-called 'ethnic cleansing' is, being the victim of a forcible expulsion is a damned sight better than being slaughtered in place.
> 
> At least a displaced person is still alive at the end of the sequence.
> 
> Unlike the fate of the Jews of Israel, according to the founding-charter documents of various Palestinian and related militant organizations, which have promised to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean if they ever get the chance.
> 
> Ethnic cleansing, as a deadlock-breaker?
> 
> Happens all the time, according to history - even within the realm of Living Memory - and some of it by good friends of ours - countries in good standing on the world stage - and much of that done by the Muslims themselves, to the Jews in the 1948-1975 timeframe.
> 
> If there is anything like that going on in Rump Palestine (what few scraps are left of it, anyway), then, it's the logical consequence of decades of Palestinian intransigence, dating back to the long periods of time in which the Israelis were still open to the idea of a viable and sustainable negotiated settlement.
> 
> Losers (militarily and politically) do not dictate terms, and the Palestinians could have had a modest country of their own, had they but abandoned the old Right of Return claim and let go of Jerusalem, but the Palestinians foolishly continued to insist upon those terms, and the Israelis gave up on dealing with the Palestinians eventually.
> 
> The result: Stalemate - Mexican Standoff - a Gordian Knot.
> 
> After years of trying to un-do that Gordian Knot, the Israelis have (finally, and long-overdue) decide to hack through the Knot, much as Alexander is rumored to have done.
> 
> That means continuing to squeeze the Palestinians long enough and hard enough so that they get the hint and leave.
> 
> I suppose it's possible that there is still time to reverse this course of action and for the Palestinians to eat a long-overdue slice of humble pie and come back to the negotiating table in good faith in a subordinate and inferior position, to see what can still be bargained-for or restored - recognizing Israel's right to exist - dropping claims to Right of Return - and letting go of Jerusalem - but they would do so, hat-in-hand, with the clear understanding that they are the losers, and cannot dictate terms.
> 
> Then again, it may simply be too late by now. Too much blood has flowed. Too much distrust and resentment has built up. Too many betrayals and killings have occurred.
> 
> It seems clear to outside observers, without a stake in all these proceedings, that Israel is slowly but surely creating a state along the lines of the old 1922 League of Nations partitioning proposal...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and, as we look at the Palestinians own propaganda maps of shrinking Palestinian-controlled lands...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...it also seems clear that the Jews of Israel are getting much closer to that (personal opinion-based, perceived) goal. Every year, the second map (above) looks more and more like the first. The symmetry between the two - and to the symmetry between the first map and the perceived historical extent of the dual kingdoms of Israel and Judah - and to the symmetry between the first map and the 'hard borders' of Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon - is inescapable.
> 
> The Arabs of Old Palestine / Transjordan already have their own State.
> 
> The Jews are merely pursuing theirs.
> 
> And, given the beating the Jews took in the Holocaust, much of the non-Muslim world is willing to let them do so, to some extent or another - doing so as a Penance for allowing the Holocaust to happen, and wanting to give the Jews at least one little sliver of the world that they can call their own - the sliver they once held, centuries ago.
> 
> The remaining Arab-Muslim Palestinians of the area are merely in the way of that goal; a goal which seems almost certain to be achieved in the not-too-distant future.
> 
> To borrow a line from an old Bill Cosby comedy routine: "Parents aren't interested in justice, they're interested in peace and quiet."
> 
> In connection with the Israel-Palestinian Conflict - beyond the domains of Islam - the world isn't interested in justice, it just wants this to go away.
> 
> Given that the Jews have the upper hand - by an order of magnitude - and that Losers do not dictate terms - it would be most efficacious if The World found a way to transplant the losing-side Palestinians elsewhere - given them a piece of the Sinai if Egypt is so willing, or scattering them amongst Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, etc. - and putting an end to this unnecessary decades-long and hopeless resistance to the macro-level plan of giving the Jews a home of their own again.
> 
> It's too late now to undo what has already been done, and there are clear Winners and Losers in this struggle.
> 
> And, the losers, having lost the coin-toss for first-bats, have to take the field first, in a 'suckers walk'.
> 
> The region simply isn't big enough to accommodate both Jews and Muslims any longer, in a situation in which the Jews rule the land.
> 
> And, given that the Jews (1) aren't going anywhere and (2) will never allow Palestinian demographics to overwhelm them, there is little left to do but to move the Palestinians elsewhere.
> 
> You can label that as ethnic cleansing or expulsion and eviction or whatever-the-hell you like, but, bottom line, it's a "sucker's walk" - with the losers getting out of Dodge, and starting new and far happier lives elsewhere, and with the 'parents' (the rest of the world) getting the 'peace and quiet' that they want as the outcome from all this.
> 
> This region and this conflict have occupied a vastly disproportionate amount of the world's attention, and the world, at large, is tired of it, and has been, for decades.
> 
> Time to cut the Gordian Knot - time to transplant the Palestinians elsewhere, with the full support and backing of the international community.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I had already brought up the explusion of the Jews from Arab countries. The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities... Page 8 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> Pretty much - regardless of you you try to justify it - ethnic cleansing is WRONG.  It's destroying innocent people.  It's a human rights violation.  If you support it then you're in the same league the Serbs cleansing Bosnia, the Arab nations expelling the Jews, Stalin forceably relocating ethnic minorities to Siberia in order to dilute them and a whole range of other delightful figures.
> 
> The only way it can be justified is by regarding the group being targeted as "less than".
> 
> Edited to add:  Places mean something.  People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation, culture and family.  They aren't pawns to be "relocated" so you can move in a set of new people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, I agree that it's wrong.
> 
> It's just not as wrong as slaughtering the subjects of the discussion.
> 
> Helluvan exercise in Moral Relativism, to be sure.
> 
> But the way that usually happens is that the current crop of folks determine to take that sin upon their own shoulders so that their own people and descendants can live a better life, without the constant bickering.
> 
> Personally, I don't support it, from a moral perspective - it's damned tough to justify and I'm not up to that - but I can see how easily it could happen, in a situation in which there are no other viable options remaining, and it becomes and Us-or-Them kind of political and moral decision.
> 
> Frankly, the best option would be for the international community to relocate them peacefully, but that doesn't seem likely either.
> 
> So, ultimately, with the Israelis already in Us-or-Them mode, they'll choose 'Us'.
> 
> Damned shame, but it's understandable, and, at this late juncture, probably nearly inevitable.
Click to expand...


Pos rep


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> there is such a thing as legitimate resistance. .




You support intentional murder of innocent people as "legitimate resistance"

That says all about you that needs to be said.,


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like how every last Jew has been clensed from Gaza despite the fact that Jews were living there millenia before the Palestinians were invented or how over 99% of Jews living in Arab lands have been clensed?
> 
> Quoting a definition of ethnic clensing is one thing. Apply the term properly is another.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or along the lines of the en masse expulsions and deportations and pressuring-to-leave of Jews in various Muslim countries, during the 1948-1975 timeframe?
> 
> Payback's a bitch, ain't it? Especially when the payback is coming from the descendants of Dhimmis and their Euro-cousins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There have been a considerable number of large-scale 'ethnic cleansings' undertaken since WWII by countries in good standing on the world stage...
> 
> 1. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old German province of East Prussia - forced by the Russians and the Poles - in the 1945-1947 timeframe.
> 
> 2. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old Bohemian province of Sudetenland - force by the Russians and the Czechs - in the 1945 - 1947 timeframe.
> 
> 3. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Hindus from newly-declared Pakistan, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.
> 
> 4. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Muslims from newly-independent India, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.
> 
> 5. the large-scale ethnic and religious cleansings undertaken by the Soviet Union (Germans, Cossacks, etc.) in the 1945-1951 timeframe.
> 
> 6. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of Greeks from Alexandria, Egypt during the 1957-1962 timeframe
> 
> 7. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of the descendants of Europeans from several African countries during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.
> 
> ...and on and on and on... a long list, indeed, since 1945 - most of them illegal, many of them unethical or distasteful, and a few of them more likely a practical necessity.
> 
> And, as distasteful (and theoretically illegal) as so-called 'ethnic cleansing' is, being the victim of a forcible expulsion is a damned sight better than being slaughtered in place.
> 
> At least a displaced person is still alive at the end of the sequence.
> 
> Unlike the fate of the Jews of Israel, according to the founding-charter documents of various Palestinian and related militant organizations, which have promised to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean if they ever get the chance.
> 
> Ethnic cleansing, as a deadlock-breaker?
> 
> Happens all the time, according to history - even within the realm of Living Memory - and some of it by good friends of ours - countries in good standing on the world stage - and much of that done by the Muslims themselves, to the Jews in the 1948-1975 timeframe.
> 
> If there is anything like that going on in Rump Palestine (what few scraps are left of it, anyway), then, it's the logical consequence of decades of Palestinian intransigence, dating back to the long periods of time in which the Israelis were still open to the idea of a viable and sustainable negotiated settlement.
> 
> Losers (militarily and politically) do not dictate terms, and the Palestinians could have had a modest country of their own, had they but abandoned the old Right of Return claim and let go of Jerusalem, but the Palestinians foolishly continued to insist upon those terms, and the Israelis gave up on dealing with the Palestinians eventually.
> 
> The result: Stalemate - Mexican Standoff - a Gordian Knot.
> 
> After years of trying to un-do that Gordian Knot, the Israelis have (finally, and long-overdue) decide to hack through the Knot, much as Alexander is rumored to have done.
> 
> That means continuing to squeeze the Palestinians long enough and hard enough so that they get the hint and leave.
> 
> I suppose it's possible that there is still time to reverse this course of action and for the Palestinians to eat a long-overdue slice of humble pie and come back to the negotiating table in good faith in a subordinate and inferior position, to see what can still be bargained-for or restored - recognizing Israel's right to exist - dropping claims to Right of Return - and letting go of Jerusalem - but they would do so, hat-in-hand, with the clear understanding that they are the losers, and cannot dictate terms.
> 
> Then again, it may simply be too late by now. Too much blood has flowed. Too much distrust and resentment has built up. Too many betrayals and killings have occurred.
> 
> It seems clear to outside observers, without a stake in all these proceedings, that Israel is slowly but surely creating a state along the lines of the old 1922 League of Nations partitioning proposal...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and, as we look at the Palestinians own propaganda maps of shrinking Palestinian-controlled lands...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...it also seems clear that the Jews of Israel are getting much closer to that (personal opinion-based, perceived) goal. Every year, the second map (above) looks more and more like the first. The symmetry between the two - and to the symmetry between the first map and the perceived historical extent of the dual kingdoms of Israel and Judah - and to the symmetry between the first map and the 'hard borders' of Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon - is inescapable.
> 
> The Arabs of Old Palestine / Transjordan already have their own State.
> 
> The Jews are merely pursuing theirs.
> 
> And, given the beating the Jews took in the Holocaust, much of the non-Muslim world is willing to let them do so, to some extent or another - doing so as a Penance for allowing the Holocaust to happen, and wanting to give the Jews at least one little sliver of the world that they can call their own - the sliver they once held, centuries ago.
> 
> The remaining Arab-Muslim Palestinians of the area are merely in the way of that goal; a goal which seems almost certain to be achieved in the not-too-distant future.
> 
> To borrow a line from an old Bill Cosby comedy routine: "Parents aren't interested in justice, they're interested in peace and quiet."
> 
> In connection with the Israel-Palestinian Conflict - beyond the domains of Islam - the world isn't interested in justice, it just wants this to go away.
> 
> Given that the Jews have the upper hand - by an order of magnitude - and that Losers do not dictate terms - it would be most efficacious if The World found a way to transplant the losing-side Palestinians elsewhere - given them a piece of the Sinai if Egypt is so willing, or scattering them amongst Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, etc. - and putting an end to this unnecessary decades-long and hopeless resistance to the macro-level plan of giving the Jews a home of their own again.
> 
> It's too late now to undo what has already been done, and there are clear Winners and Losers in this struggle.
> 
> And, the losers, having lost the coin-toss for first-bats, have to take the field first, in a 'suckers walk'.
> 
> The region simply isn't big enough to accommodate both Jews and Muslims any longer, in a situation in which the Jews rule the land.
> 
> And, given that the Jews (1) aren't going anywhere and (2) will never allow Palestinian demographics to overwhelm them, there is little left to do but to move the Palestinians elsewhere.
> 
> You can label that as ethnic cleansing or expulsion and eviction or whatever-the-hell you like, but, bottom line, it's a "sucker's walk" - with the losers getting out of Dodge, and starting new and far happier lives elsewhere, and with the 'parents' (the rest of the world) getting the 'peace and quiet' that they want as the outcome from all this.
> 
> This region and this conflict have occupied a vastly disproportionate amount of the world's attention, and the world, at large, is tired of it, and has been, for decades.
> 
> Time to cut the Gordian Knot - time to transplant the Palestinians elsewhere, with the full support and backing of the international community.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I had already brought up the explusion of the Jews from Arab countries. The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities... Page 8 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> Pretty much - regardless of you you try to justify it - ethnic cleansing is WRONG.  It's destroying innocent people.  It's a human rights violation.  If you support it then you're in the same league the Serbs cleansing Bosnia, the Arab nations expelling the Jews, Stalin forceably relocating ethnic minorities to Siberia in order to dilute them and a whole range of other delightful figures.
> 
> The only way it can be justified is by regarding the group being targeted as "less than".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are wrong because in the examples you give above, those people were not lobbing bombs into the countries and attacking their citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.  I'm not wrong.  They are stateless.  Give them a state.  Stop trying to "cleanse them" from the areas they traditionally occupy.  Once they have a state they will have to behave or be considered a pariah in the international community.  Of course if your plan is to cleanse them from all the area that they occupy so you can take their land then that's another point entirely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are NOT "innocent" people.  Their actions are an act of war against Israel.  Israel should expel them because they are nothing but trouble, have been and will continue to be.  Israel should NOT risk it's citizens safety.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They're actions might be an act of war but they are also a people under occupation and there is such a thing as legitimate resistance.  Just like I can't imagine any nation allowing rockets to be lobbed into it's civilian areas without retaliation neither can I imagine a people living under occupation and just accepting it - "yes masta..you want my olive grove for your "settlers"...sure go right ahead".
> 
> Ethnic cleansing is never justifiable.
Click to expand...


Israel GAVE them Gaza, and nothing changed.  They have actually stated in the past that their goal is NOT for peace but to destroy the Jews!!!  

*Article Thirteen: Peaceful Solutions, [Peace] Initiatives and International Conferences[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad: “Allah is the all-powerful, but most people are not aware.” From time to time a clamoring is voiced, to hold an International Conference in search for a solution to the problem. Some accept the idea, others reject it, for one reason or another, demanding the implementation of this or that condition, as a prerequisite for agreeing to convene the Conference or for participating in it. But the Islamic Resistance Movement, which is aware of the [prospective] parties to this conference, and of their past and present positions towards the problems of the Muslims, does not believe that those conferences are capable of responding to demands, or of restoring rights or doing justice to the oppressed. Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the nonbelievers as arbitrators in the lands of Islam. Since when did the Unbelievers do justice to the Believers? “And the Jews will not be pleased with thee, nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed. Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah [himself] is the Guidance. And if you should follow their desires after the knowledge which has come unto thee, then you would have from Allah no protecting friend nor helper.” Sura 2 (the Cow), verse 120 There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. The initiatives, proposals and International Conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility. The Palestinian people are too noble to have their future, their right and their destiny submitted to a vain game. As the hadith has it: “The people of Syria are Allah’s whip on this land; He takes revenge by their intermediary from whoever he wished among his worshipers. The Hypocrites among them are forbidden from vanquishing the true believers, and they will die in anxiety and sorrow.” (Told by Tabarani, who is traceable in ascending order of traditionaries to Muhammad, and by Ahmed whose chain of transmission is incomplete. But it is bound to be a true hadith, for both story tellers are reliable. Allah knows best.)*


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Were they forceably expelled by the Palestinians?
> 
> How about putting to rest the faux meme about Palestinians being"invented" - the name might be new but the people have been there as long as the Jews.
> 
> I already brought up the expulsion of Jews from Arab countries as an example (several times).
> 
> Do you support ethnic cleansing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you need to lie so much in order for your propaganda to work?
Click to expand...


Specifically - what lie?



> "Palestinians" are simply Arabs, and Arabs most definitely HAVE indulged in ethnic clensing. Palestinians  DID NOT exist as a people with any sort of ethnic identity until this was created as a propaganda tool several decades ago.



Palestinians are not simply Arabs - they are mix of a lot of people who have lived in that area over a long time, Arabs being only the latest influx.

Every "people" started out at some point as "non people".  It doesn't matter when they became "a people" - what matters is those people have lived there for a long long time.

The way you seem to be portraying it is that Palestine contained Jews and nothing else until the Arabs came and that simply isn't true.



> They should continue to live in the land in which they were actually born, and if they should ever wish to start behaving like humans,should be able to have a sense of self determination in that land.
> 
> ...which is not in the state of Israel.



So have the Palestinians recognize Israel, then take Israel's 1967 borders as a starting point - negotiate land swaps (inevitable) and settle it.

You seem to forget that the founding of Israel included a considerable amount of terrorism directed at the British and at Arabs.  No one told the Jews that they needed to start behaving as "humans" before they had a right to their state.


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> there is such a thing as legitimate resistance. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *You support intentional murder of innocent people as "legitimate resistance"*
> 
> That says all about you that needs to be said.,
Click to expand...


And where did I say I support that?  Learn to read Dogma.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like how every last Jew has been clensed from Gaza despite the fact that Jews were living there millenia before the Palestinians were invented or how over 99% of Jews living in Arab lands have been clensed?
> 
> Quoting a definition of ethnic clensing is one thing. Apply the term properly is another.
> 
> 
> 
> Or along the lines of the en masse expulsions and deportations and pressuring-to-leave of Jews in various Muslim countries, during the 1948-1975 timeframe?
> 
> Payback's a bitch, ain't it? Especially when the payback is coming from the descendants of Dhimmis and their Euro-cousins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There have been a considerable number of large-scale 'ethnic cleansings' undertaken since WWII by countries in good standing on the world stage...
> 
> 1. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old German province of East Prussia - forced by the Russians and the Poles - in the 1945-1947 timeframe.
> 
> 2. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old Bohemian province of Sudetenland - force by the Russians and the Czechs - in the 1945 - 1947 timeframe.
> 
> 3. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Hindus from newly-declared Pakistan, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.
> 
> 4. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Muslims from newly-independent India, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.
> 
> 5. the large-scale ethnic and religious cleansings undertaken by the Soviet Union (Germans, Cossacks, etc.) in the 1945-1951 timeframe.
> 
> 6. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of Greeks from Alexandria, Egypt during the 1957-1962 timeframe
> 
> 7. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of the descendants of Europeans from several African countries during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.
> 
> ...and on and on and on... a long list, indeed, since 1945 - most of them illegal, many of them unethical or distasteful, and a few of them more likely a practical necessity.
> 
> And, as distasteful (and theoretically illegal) as so-called 'ethnic cleansing' is, being the victim of a forcible expulsion is a damned sight better than being slaughtered in place.
> 
> At least a displaced person is still alive at the end of the sequence.
> 
> Unlike the fate of the Jews of Israel, according to the founding-charter documents of various Palestinian and related militant organizations, which have promised to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean if they ever get the chance.
> 
> Ethnic cleansing, as a deadlock-breaker?
> 
> Happens all the time, according to history - even within the realm of Living Memory - and some of it by good friends of ours - countries in good standing on the world stage - and much of that done by the Muslims themselves, to the Jews in the 1948-1975 timeframe.
> 
> If there is anything like that going on in Rump Palestine (what few scraps are left of it, anyway), then, it's the logical consequence of decades of Palestinian intransigence, dating back to the long periods of time in which the Israelis were still open to the idea of a viable and sustainable negotiated settlement.
> 
> Losers (militarily and politically) do not dictate terms, and the Palestinians could have had a modest country of their own, had they but abandoned the old Right of Return claim and let go of Jerusalem, but the Palestinians foolishly continued to insist upon those terms, and the Israelis gave up on dealing with the Palestinians eventually.
> 
> The result: Stalemate - Mexican Standoff - a Gordian Knot.
> 
> After years of trying to un-do that Gordian Knot, the Israelis have (finally, and long-overdue) decide to hack through the Knot, much as Alexander is rumored to have done.
> 
> That means continuing to squeeze the Palestinians long enough and hard enough so that they get the hint and leave.
> 
> I suppose it's possible that there is still time to reverse this course of action and for the Palestinians to eat a long-overdue slice of humble pie and come back to the negotiating table in good faith in a subordinate and inferior position, to see what can still be bargained-for or restored - recognizing Israel's right to exist - dropping claims to Right of Return - and letting go of Jerusalem - but they would do so, hat-in-hand, with the clear understanding that they are the losers, and cannot dictate terms.
> 
> Then again, it may simply be too late by now. Too much blood has flowed. Too much distrust and resentment has built up. Too many betrayals and killings have occurred.
> 
> It seems clear to outside observers, without a stake in all these proceedings, that Israel is slowly but surely creating a state along the lines of the old 1922 League of Nations partitioning proposal...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and, as we look at the Palestinians own propaganda maps of shrinking Palestinian-controlled lands...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...it also seems clear that the Jews of Israel are getting much closer to that (personal opinion-based, perceived) goal. Every year, the second map (above) looks more and more like the first. The symmetry between the two - and to the symmetry between the first map and the perceived historical extent of the dual kingdoms of Israel and Judah - and to the symmetry between the first map and the 'hard borders' of Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon - is inescapable.
> 
> The Arabs of Old Palestine / Transjordan already have their own State.
> 
> The Jews are merely pursuing theirs.
> 
> And, given the beating the Jews took in the Holocaust, much of the non-Muslim world is willing to let them do so, to some extent or another - doing so as a Penance for allowing the Holocaust to happen, and wanting to give the Jews at least one little sliver of the world that they can call their own - the sliver they once held, centuries ago.
> 
> The remaining Arab-Muslim Palestinians of the area are merely in the way of that goal; a goal which seems almost certain to be achieved in the not-too-distant future.
> 
> To borrow a line from an old Bill Cosby comedy routine: "Parents aren't interested in justice, they're interested in peace and quiet."
> 
> In connection with the Israel-Palestinian Conflict - beyond the domains of Islam - the world isn't interested in justice, it just wants this to go away.
> 
> Given that the Jews have the upper hand - by an order of magnitude - and that Losers do not dictate terms - it would be most efficacious if The World found a way to transplant the losing-side Palestinians elsewhere - given them a piece of the Sinai if Egypt is so willing, or scattering them amongst Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, etc. - and putting an end to this unnecessary decades-long and hopeless resistance to the macro-level plan of giving the Jews a home of their own again.
> 
> It's too late now to undo what has already been done, and there are clear Winners and Losers in this struggle.
> 
> And, the losers, having lost the coin-toss for first-bats, have to take the field first, in a 'suckers walk'.
> 
> The region simply isn't big enough to accommodate both Jews and Muslims any longer, in a situation in which the Jews rule the land.
> 
> And, given that the Jews (1) aren't going anywhere and (2) will never allow Palestinian demographics to overwhelm them, there is little left to do but to move the Palestinians elsewhere.
> 
> You can label that as ethnic cleansing or expulsion and eviction or whatever-the-hell you like, but, bottom line, it's a "sucker's walk" - with the losers getting out of Dodge, and starting new and far happier lives elsewhere, and with the 'parents' (the rest of the world) getting the 'peace and quiet' that they want as the outcome from all this.
> 
> This region and this conflict have occupied a vastly disproportionate amount of the world's attention, and the world, at large, is tired of it, and has been, for decades.
> 
> Time to cut the Gordian Knot - time to transplant the Palestinians elsewhere, with the full support and backing of the international community.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I had already brought up the explusion of the Jews from Arab countries. The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities... Page 8 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> Pretty much - regardless of you you try to justify it - ethnic cleansing is WRONG.  It's destroying innocent people.  It's a human rights violation.  If you support it then you're in the same league the Serbs cleansing Bosnia, the Arab nations expelling the Jews, Stalin forceably relocating ethnic minorities to Siberia in order to dilute them and a whole range of other delightful figures.
> 
> The only way it can be justified is by regarding the group being targeted as "less than".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are wrong because in the examples you give above, those people were not lobbing bombs into the countries and attacking their citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.  I'm not wrong.  They are stateless.  Give them a state.  Stop trying to "cleanse them" from the areas they traditionally occupy.  Once they have a state they will have to behave or be considered a pariah in the international community.  Of course if your plan is to cleanse them from all the area that they occupy so you can take their land then that's another point entirely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are NOT "innocent" people.  Their actions are an act of war against Israel.  Israel should expel them because they are nothing but trouble, have been and will continue to be.  Israel should NOT risk it's citizens safety.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They're actions might be an act of war but they are also a people under occupation and there is such a thing as legitimate resistance.  Just like I can't imagine any nation allowing rockets to be lobbed into it's civilian areas without retaliation neither can I imagine a people living under occupation and just accepting it - "yes masta..you want my olive grove for your "settlers"...sure go right ahead".
> 
> Ethnic cleansing is never justifiable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel GAVE them Gaza, and nothing changed.  They have actually stated in the past that their goal is NOT for peace but to destroy the Jews!!!
> 
> *Article Thirteen: Peaceful Solutions, [Peace] Initiatives and International Conferences[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad: “Allah is the all-powerful, but most people are not aware.” From time to time a clamoring is voiced, to hold an International Conference in search for a solution to the problem. Some accept the idea, others reject it, for one reason or another, demanding the implementation of this or that condition, as a prerequisite for agreeing to convene the Conference or for participating in it. But the Islamic Resistance Movement, which is aware of the [prospective] parties to this conference, and of their past and present positions towards the problems of the Muslims, does not believe that those conferences are capable of responding to demands, or of restoring rights or doing justice to the oppressed. Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the nonbelievers as arbitrators in the lands of Islam. Since when did the Unbelievers do justice to the Believers? “And the Jews will not be pleased with thee, nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed. Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah [himself] is the Guidance. And if you should follow their desires after the knowledge which has come unto thee, then you would have from Allah no protecting friend nor helper.” Sura 2 (the Cow), verse 120 There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. The initiatives, proposals and International Conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility. The Palestinian people are too noble to have their future, their right and their destiny submitted to a vain game. As the hadith has it: “The people of Syria are Allah’s whip on this land; He takes revenge by their intermediary from whoever he wished among his worshipers. The Hypocrites among them are forbidden from vanquishing the true believers, and they will die in anxiety and sorrow.” (Told by Tabarani, who is traceable in ascending order of traditionaries to Muhammad, and by Ahmed whose chain of transmission is incomplete. But it is bound to be a true hadith, for both story tellers are reliable. Allah knows best.)*
Click to expand...


Gaza *did not belong* to Israel.  Israel can not "give" what *it does not legally own*.  Gaza was under Israeli *occupation.*


----------



## montelatici

The Christians and Muslims were living in Palestine.  Jews came from Europe and evicted most of them from Palestine.  That's just a fact.


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## Hossfly




----------



## P F Tinmore

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Were they forceably expelled by the Palestinians?
> 
> How about putting to rest the faux meme about Palestinians being"invented" - the name might be new but the people have been there as long as the Jews.
> 
> I already brought up the expulsion of Jews from Arab countries as an example (several times).
> 
> Do you support ethnic cleansing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you need to lie so much in order for your propaganda to work?
> 
> "Palestinians" are simply Arabs, and Arabs most definitely HAVE indulged in ethnic clensing. *Palestinians  DID NOT exist as a people with any sort of ethnic identity until this was created as a propaganda tool several decades ago.  *
> 
> They should continue to live in the land in which they were actually born, and if they should ever wish to start behaving like humans,should be able to have a sense of self determination in that land.
> 
> ...which is not in the state of Israel.
Click to expand...

*Not true.*
----------------
*The first Palestine Citizenship Order was enacted by Britain on 24 July 1925; it was the first official enactment that outlined the legal definition of a Palestinian.* Its first article defined a Palestinian as a "Turkish subject habitually resident in the territory of Palestine." It defined the territorial criteria for citizenship, and appeared to be nondiscriminatory legislation, which provided granting of citizenship to an applicant, irrespective of their race, religion or language.

History of Palestinian nationality - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## Beelzebub

Hossfly said:


> We veterans get irked when you and your tribe quote Veterans Today, a site of anti-American communistic deadbeats who are no better than terrorist supporters.



That's how you baby killers refer to those who object to your baby killing.


----------



## pbel

The last massacre of Civilians in Gaza has turned the World against Israel...As usual, the Jewish State (or entity) has turned everyone's stomach with its collective atrocities!

It has overplayed it's hand this time...


Israel-Palestine conflict A turn in western thinking - Opinion - Al Jazeera English
...It is something of a weather vane of the global view of the conflict that when Abbas spoke he received thunderous applause, while Netanyahu addressed a solemn half empty UN chamber...


----------



## Phoenall

Penelope said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you "win" land "fair and square" without contravening the Geneva Convention?  The Jewish savages came from Europe invaded the land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, the French and Brits already had control of that "territory."  They gave it to Israel, who in turn was attacked, yet beat incredible odds to win and maintain their hold on their land.  Why they would ever have agreed to give up the Gaza strip to those monsters, I don't know.  They should throw them all out and take it back, and never negotiate with the scum again.  If they see them, they should shoot first and ask questions later.    That's how you handle that kind of POS scum.  They will stop with their terror tactics eventually, and then there can be peace, because we all know that Israel just wants to exist in peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *"They gave it to Israel,"*
> 
> *Could you document that?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hello?  I already did in the links I provided.  READ them please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't recall seeing any documents of Britain transferring any land to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because Britain did not have any legal ownership of the land, they were just agents acting on behalf of the LoN. It was the LoN and its successor the UN that transferred ownership. Just look on Britain as a police force sent to keep law and order and to assist the locals in setting up their own country
Click to expand...



Yes they did the Balfour Declaration gave permission to the Jew to live in Palestine, and the Jews treated the British so bad and chased them out and so the British washed their hands of it and gave  it to the LON of which the US and Truman declared it Israel.  Obviously one has no rights to a land if someone had to let them live there, Britain had no intentions of giving them control of Palestine, that is why the British still remained there, till Israel blew up their embassy.,  LON was formed till 1920, the jews took huge advantage of the situation as they have in every country they have lived in , they try to make it their own, the revolution in Russia, Germany and now Palestine. One thing to live among others with respect , another to try and take over and become masters over others, like the Israel lobby in the US.[/QUOTE]




 Try again as it gave no such thing here it is for you

Balfour Declaration - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


The *Balfour Declaration* (dated 2 November 1917) was a letter from the United Kingdom's Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Baron Rothschild (Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild), a leader of the British Jewish community, for transmission to the Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland.
His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country



 The arab muslims decided that they would ignore the treaties that had made previously and start fighting the Jews, or should I say massacring the Jews.

 The LoN became the new owners of the land in 1919 under the surrender treaty signed with the Ottomans and split it into 3 mandates ran by Russia, France and Britain who were there just to facilitate the independence of the people that land had been given to.
The British had no say in who got what that was all down to the LoN who gave the land to two Hashemite minor princes ( Syria and Jordan ) and Iraq.
 Britain had no embassy in Palestine but it did have a military headquarters in the King David Hotel, which was warned prior to the bombing that it had been targeted and to evacuate the building.

The LoN was formed in 1919 and lasted until 1946 when it was absorbed by the new United nations.



 YOUR ANTI SEMITIC ISLAMONAZI JEW HATRED HAS CERTAINLY CAME THROUGH IN THIS POST AND SHOWS THAT YOU ARE A MUSLIM


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like how every last Jew has been clensed from Gaza despite the fact that Jews were living there millenia before the Palestinians were invented or how over 99% of Jews living in Arab lands have been clensed?
> 
> Quoting a definition of ethnic clensing is one thing. Apply the term properly is another.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or along the lines of the en masse expulsions and deportations and pressuring-to-leave of Jews in various Muslim countries, during the 1948-1975 timeframe?
> 
> Payback's a bitch, ain't it? Especially when the payback is coming from the descendants of Dhimmis and their Euro-cousins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There have been a considerable number of large-scale 'ethnic cleansings' undertaken since WWII by countries in good standing on the world stage...
> 
> 1. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old German province of East Prussia - forced by the Russians and the Poles - in the 1945-1947 timeframe.
> 
> 2. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old Bohemian province of Sudetenland - force by the Russians and the Czechs - in the 1945 - 1947 timeframe.
> 
> 3. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Hindus from newly-declared Pakistan, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.
> 
> 4. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Muslims from newly-independent India, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.
> 
> 5. the large-scale ethnic and religious cleansings undertaken by the Soviet Union (Germans, Cossacks, etc.) in the 1945-1951 timeframe.
> 
> 6. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of Greeks from Alexandria, Egypt during the 1957-1962 timeframe
> 
> 7. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of the descendants of Europeans from several African countries during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.
> 
> ...and on and on and on... a long list, indeed, since 1945 - most of them illegal, many of them unethical or distasteful, and a few of them more likely a practical necessity.
> 
> And, as distasteful (and theoretically illegal) as so-called 'ethnic cleansing' is, being the victim of a forcible expulsion is a damned sight better than being slaughtered in place.
> 
> At least a displaced person is still alive at the end of the sequence.
> 
> Unlike the fate of the Jews of Israel, according to the founding-charter documents of various Palestinian and related militant organizations, which have promised to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean if they ever get the chance.
> 
> Ethnic cleansing, as a deadlock-breaker?
> 
> Happens all the time, according to history - even within the realm of Living Memory - and some of it by good friends of ours - countries in good standing on the world stage - and much of that done by the Muslims themselves, to the Jews in the 1948-1975 timeframe.
> 
> If there is anything like that going on in Rump Palestine (what few scraps are left of it, anyway), then, it's the logical consequence of decades of Palestinian intransigence, dating back to the long periods of time in which the Israelis were still open to the idea of a viable and sustainable negotiated settlement.
> 
> Losers (militarily and politically) do not dictate terms, and the Palestinians could have had a modest country of their own, had they but abandoned the old Right of Return claim and let go of Jerusalem, but the Palestinians foolishly continued to insist upon those terms, and the Israelis gave up on dealing with the Palestinians eventually.
> 
> The result: Stalemate - Mexican Standoff - a Gordian Knot.
> 
> After years of trying to un-do that Gordian Knot, the Israelis have (finally, and long-overdue) decide to hack through the Knot, much as Alexander is rumored to have done.
> 
> That means continuing to squeeze the Palestinians long enough and hard enough so that they get the hint and leave.
> 
> I suppose it's possible that there is still time to reverse this course of action and for the Palestinians to eat a long-overdue slice of humble pie and come back to the negotiating table in good faith in a subordinate and inferior position, to see what can still be bargained-for or restored - recognizing Israel's right to exist - dropping claims to Right of Return - and letting go of Jerusalem - but they would do so, hat-in-hand, with the clear understanding that they are the losers, and cannot dictate terms.
> 
> Then again, it may simply be too late by now. Too much blood has flowed. Too much distrust and resentment has built up. Too many betrayals and killings have occurred.
> 
> It seems clear to outside observers, without a stake in all these proceedings, that Israel is slowly but surely creating a state along the lines of the old 1922 League of Nations partitioning proposal...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and, as we look at the Palestinians own propaganda maps of shrinking Palestinian-controlled lands...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...it also seems clear that the Jews of Israel are getting much closer to that (personal opinion-based, perceived) goal. Every year, the second map (above) looks more and more like the first. The symmetry between the two - and to the symmetry between the first map and the perceived historical extent of the dual kingdoms of Israel and Judah - and to the symmetry between the first map and the 'hard borders' of Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon - is inescapable.
> 
> The Arabs of Old Palestine / Transjordan already have their own State.
> 
> The Jews are merely pursuing theirs.
> 
> And, given the beating the Jews took in the Holocaust, much of the non-Muslim world is willing to let them do so, to some extent or another - doing so as a Penance for allowing the Holocaust to happen, and wanting to give the Jews at least one little sliver of the world that they can call their own - the sliver they once held, centuries ago.
> 
> The remaining Arab-Muslim Palestinians of the area are merely in the way of that goal; a goal which seems almost certain to be achieved in the not-too-distant future.
> 
> To borrow a line from an old Bill Cosby comedy routine: "Parents aren't interested in justice, they're interested in peace and quiet."
> 
> In connection with the Israel-Palestinian Conflict - beyond the domains of Islam - the world isn't interested in justice, it just wants this to go away.
> 
> Given that the Jews have the upper hand - by an order of magnitude - and that Losers do not dictate terms - it would be most efficacious if The World found a way to transplant the losing-side Palestinians elsewhere - given them a piece of the Sinai if Egypt is so willing, or scattering them amongst Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, etc. - and putting an end to this unnecessary decades-long and hopeless resistance to the macro-level plan of giving the Jews a home of their own again.
> 
> It's too late now to undo what has already been done, and there are clear Winners and Losers in this struggle.
> 
> And, the losers, having lost the coin-toss for first-bats, have to take the field first, in a 'suckers walk'.
> 
> The region simply isn't big enough to accommodate both Jews and Muslims any longer, in a situation in which the Jews rule the land.
> 
> And, given that the Jews (1) aren't going anywhere and (2) will never allow Palestinian demographics to overwhelm them, there is little left to do but to move the Palestinians elsewhere.
> 
> You can label that as ethnic cleansing or expulsion and eviction or whatever-the-hell you like, but, bottom line, it's a "sucker's walk" - with the losers getting out of Dodge, and starting new and far happier lives elsewhere, and with the 'parents' (the rest of the world) getting the 'peace and quiet' that they want as the outcome from all this.
> 
> This region and this conflict have occupied a vastly disproportionate amount of the world's attention, and the world, at large, is tired of it, and has been, for decades.
> 
> Time to cut the Gordian Knot - time to transplant the Palestinians elsewhere, with the full support and backing of the international community.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I had already brought up the explusion of the Jews from Arab countries. The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities... Page 8 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> Pretty much - regardless of you you try to justify it - ethnic cleansing is WRONG.  It's destroying innocent people.  It's a human rights violation.  If you support it then you're in the same league the Serbs cleansing Bosnia, the Arab nations expelling the Jews, Stalin forceably relocating ethnic minorities to Siberia in order to dilute them and a whole range of other delightful figures.
> 
> The only way it can be justified is by regarding the group being targeted as "less than".
> 
> Edited to add:  Places mean something.  People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation, culture and family.  They aren't pawns to be "relocated" so you can move in a set of new people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, I agree that it's wrong.
> 
> It's just not as wrong as slaughtering the subjects of the discussion.
> 
> Helluvan exercise in Moral Relativism, to be sure.
> 
> But the way that usually happens is that the current crop of folks determine to take that sin upon their own shoulders so that their own people and descendants can live a better life, without the constant bickering.
> 
> Personally, I don't support it, from a moral perspective - it's damned tough to justify and I'm not up to that - but I can see how easily it could happen, in a situation in which there are no other viable options remaining, and it becomes and Us-or-Them kind of political and moral decision.
> 
> Frankly, the best option would be for the international community to relocate them peacefully, but that doesn't seem likely either.
> 
> So, ultimately, with the Israelis already in Us-or-Them mode, they'll choose 'Us'.
> 
> Damned shame, but it's understandable, and, at this late juncture, probably nearly inevitable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pos rep
Click to expand...


Lol!  Why did you "pos rep" him?  He doesn't agree with you!    Funny!


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or along the lines of the en masse expulsions and deportations and pressuring-to-leave of Jews in various Muslim countries, during the 1948-1975 timeframe?
> 
> Payback's a bitch, ain't it? Especially when the payback is coming from the descendants of Dhimmis and their Euro-cousins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There have been a considerable number of large-scale 'ethnic cleansings' undertaken since WWII by countries in good standing on the world stage...
> 
> 1. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old German province of East Prussia - forced by the Russians and the Poles - in the 1945-1947 timeframe.
> 
> 2. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old Bohemian province of Sudetenland - force by the Russians and the Czechs - in the 1945 - 1947 timeframe.
> 
> 3. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Hindus from newly-declared Pakistan, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.
> 
> 4. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Muslims from newly-independent India, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.
> 
> 5. the large-scale ethnic and religious cleansings undertaken by the Soviet Union (Germans, Cossacks, etc.) in the 1945-1951 timeframe.
> 
> 6. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of Greeks from Alexandria, Egypt during the 1957-1962 timeframe
> 
> 7. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of the descendants of Europeans from several African countries during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.
> 
> ...and on and on and on... a long list, indeed, since 1945 - most of them illegal, many of them unethical or distasteful, and a few of them more likely a practical necessity.
> 
> And, as distasteful (and theoretically illegal) as so-called 'ethnic cleansing' is, being the victim of a forcible expulsion is a damned sight better than being slaughtered in place.
> 
> At least a displaced person is still alive at the end of the sequence.
> 
> Unlike the fate of the Jews of Israel, according to the founding-charter documents of various Palestinian and related militant organizations, which have promised to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean if they ever get the chance.
> 
> Ethnic cleansing, as a deadlock-breaker?
> 
> Happens all the time, according to history - even within the realm of Living Memory - and some of it by good friends of ours - countries in good standing on the world stage - and much of that done by the Muslims themselves, to the Jews in the 1948-1975 timeframe.
> 
> If there is anything like that going on in Rump Palestine (what few scraps are left of it, anyway), then, it's the logical consequence of decades of Palestinian intransigence, dating back to the long periods of time in which the Israelis were still open to the idea of a viable and sustainable negotiated settlement.
> 
> Losers (militarily and politically) do not dictate terms, and the Palestinians could have had a modest country of their own, had they but abandoned the old Right of Return claim and let go of Jerusalem, but the Palestinians foolishly continued to insist upon those terms, and the Israelis gave up on dealing with the Palestinians eventually.
> 
> The result: Stalemate - Mexican Standoff - a Gordian Knot.
> 
> After years of trying to un-do that Gordian Knot, the Israelis have (finally, and long-overdue) decide to hack through the Knot, much as Alexander is rumored to have done.
> 
> That means continuing to squeeze the Palestinians long enough and hard enough so that they get the hint and leave.
> 
> I suppose it's possible that there is still time to reverse this course of action and for the Palestinians to eat a long-overdue slice of humble pie and come back to the negotiating table in good faith in a subordinate and inferior position, to see what can still be bargained-for or restored - recognizing Israel's right to exist - dropping claims to Right of Return - and letting go of Jerusalem - but they would do so, hat-in-hand, with the clear understanding that they are the losers, and cannot dictate terms.
> 
> Then again, it may simply be too late by now. Too much blood has flowed. Too much distrust and resentment has built up. Too many betrayals and killings have occurred.
> 
> It seems clear to outside observers, without a stake in all these proceedings, that Israel is slowly but surely creating a state along the lines of the old 1922 League of Nations partitioning proposal...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and, as we look at the Palestinians own propaganda maps of shrinking Palestinian-controlled lands...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...it also seems clear that the Jews of Israel are getting much closer to that (personal opinion-based, perceived) goal. Every year, the second map (above) looks more and more like the first. The symmetry between the two - and to the symmetry between the first map and the perceived historical extent of the dual kingdoms of Israel and Judah - and to the symmetry between the first map and the 'hard borders' of Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon - is inescapable.
> 
> The Arabs of Old Palestine / Transjordan already have their own State.
> 
> The Jews are merely pursuing theirs.
> 
> And, given the beating the Jews took in the Holocaust, much of the non-Muslim world is willing to let them do so, to some extent or another - doing so as a Penance for allowing the Holocaust to happen, and wanting to give the Jews at least one little sliver of the world that they can call their own - the sliver they once held, centuries ago.
> 
> The remaining Arab-Muslim Palestinians of the area are merely in the way of that goal; a goal which seems almost certain to be achieved in the not-too-distant future.
> 
> To borrow a line from an old Bill Cosby comedy routine: "Parents aren't interested in justice, they're interested in peace and quiet."
> 
> In connection with the Israel-Palestinian Conflict - beyond the domains of Islam - the world isn't interested in justice, it just wants this to go away.
> 
> Given that the Jews have the upper hand - by an order of magnitude - and that Losers do not dictate terms - it would be most efficacious if The World found a way to transplant the losing-side Palestinians elsewhere - given them a piece of the Sinai if Egypt is so willing, or scattering them amongst Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, etc. - and putting an end to this unnecessary decades-long and hopeless resistance to the macro-level plan of giving the Jews a home of their own again.
> 
> It's too late now to undo what has already been done, and there are clear Winners and Losers in this struggle.
> 
> And, the losers, having lost the coin-toss for first-bats, have to take the field first, in a 'suckers walk'.
> 
> The region simply isn't big enough to accommodate both Jews and Muslims any longer, in a situation in which the Jews rule the land.
> 
> And, given that the Jews (1) aren't going anywhere and (2) will never allow Palestinian demographics to overwhelm them, there is little left to do but to move the Palestinians elsewhere.
> 
> You can label that as ethnic cleansing or expulsion and eviction or whatever-the-hell you like, but, bottom line, it's a "sucker's walk" - with the losers getting out of Dodge, and starting new and far happier lives elsewhere, and with the 'parents' (the rest of the world) getting the 'peace and quiet' that they want as the outcome from all this.
> 
> This region and this conflict have occupied a vastly disproportionate amount of the world's attention, and the world, at large, is tired of it, and has been, for decades.
> 
> Time to cut the Gordian Knot - time to transplant the Palestinians elsewhere, with the full support and backing of the international community.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had already brought up the explusion of the Jews from Arab countries. The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities... Page 8 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> Pretty much - regardless of you you try to justify it - ethnic cleansing is WRONG.  It's destroying innocent people.  It's a human rights violation.  If you support it then you're in the same league the Serbs cleansing Bosnia, the Arab nations expelling the Jews, Stalin forceably relocating ethnic minorities to Siberia in order to dilute them and a whole range of other delightful figures.
> 
> The only way it can be justified is by regarding the group being targeted as "less than".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are wrong because in the examples you give above, those people were not lobbing bombs into the countries and attacking their citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.  I'm not wrong.  They are stateless.  Give them a state.  Stop trying to "cleanse them" from the areas they traditionally occupy.  Once they have a state they will have to behave or be considered a pariah in the international community.  Of course if your plan is to cleanse them from all the area that they occupy so you can take their land then that's another point entirely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are NOT "innocent" people.  Their actions are an act of war against Israel.  Israel should expel them because they are nothing but trouble, have been and will continue to be.  Israel should NOT risk it's citizens safety.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They're actions might be an act of war but they are also a people under occupation and there is such a thing as legitimate resistance.  Just like I can't imagine any nation allowing rockets to be lobbed into it's civilian areas without retaliation neither can I imagine a people living under occupation and just accepting it - "yes masta..you want my olive grove for your "settlers"...sure go right ahead".
> 
> Ethnic cleansing is never justifiable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel GAVE them Gaza, and nothing changed.  They have actually stated in the past that their goal is NOT for peace but to destroy the Jews!!!
> 
> *Article Thirteen: Peaceful Solutions, [Peace] Initiatives and International Conferences[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad: “Allah is the all-powerful, but most people are not aware.” From time to time a clamoring is voiced, to hold an International Conference in search for a solution to the problem. Some accept the idea, others reject it, for one reason or another, demanding the implementation of this or that condition, as a prerequisite for agreeing to convene the Conference or for participating in it. But the Islamic Resistance Movement, which is aware of the [prospective] parties to this conference, and of their past and present positions towards the problems of the Muslims, does not believe that those conferences are capable of responding to demands, or of restoring rights or doing justice to the oppressed. Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the nonbelievers as arbitrators in the lands of Islam. Since when did the Unbelievers do justice to the Believers? “And the Jews will not be pleased with thee, nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed. Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah [himself] is the Guidance. And if you should follow their desires after the knowledge which has come unto thee, then you would have from Allah no protecting friend nor helper.” Sura 2 (the Cow), verse 120 There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. The initiatives, proposals and International Conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility. The Palestinian people are too noble to have their future, their right and their destiny submitted to a vain game. As the hadith has it: “The people of Syria are Allah’s whip on this land; He takes revenge by their intermediary from whoever he wished among his worshipers. The Hypocrites among them are forbidden from vanquishing the true believers, and they will die in anxiety and sorrow.” (Told by Tabarani, who is traceable in ascending order of traditionaries to Muhammad, and by Ahmed whose chain of transmission is incomplete. But it is bound to be a true hadith, for both story tellers are reliable. Allah knows best.)*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza *did not belong* to Israel.  Israel can not "give" what *it does not legally own*.  Gaza was under Israeli *occupation.*
Click to expand...


Did you purposely ignore the links?  Yes, Israel won the Gaza strip in a war.  To the victors go the spoils, as it should be.


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, why don't you accuse Palestine of it then?  They WANT ethnic cleansing of the Jews from the region, and they are willing to kill them all too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are guilty of a lot of things but at the moment ethnic cleansing isn't one of them.  What they "want" and "rhetoric" isn't action taken.
> 
> If you want to get incensed about ethnic cleansing done by others towards Jews - look at what occurred during the establishment of Israel when Jews were expelled from Arab nations where they had resided for centuries more more.  And ask yourself - was that right?  Humane? Ethical?  If the answer is "no" then how can you support similar expulsions?
> 
> More ethnic cleansing: ISIS - religious minorities, Christians, Azidi's, Muslims without the proper credentials.  Recent history - Rwanda, Bosnia...all examples that included genocide.  Longer back - Stalin's forced relocations of people to dilute ethnic populations.  Lots of examples but right now - the Palestionians aren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No they do not.  If you think they want peace, you are just fooling yourself.  It is quite obvious to anyone with EYES and EARS and a BRAIN that they are not looking for "peace."  It's NOT in their vocabulary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you support ethnic cleansing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look how you try to use this word as if it's a weapon.  Your liberal tactics are completely transparent.  Lol!  It's like "have you stopped beating your wife?"
> 
> FAIL bucket.
> 
> Try something else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you support ethnic cleansing?  It's a straightforward question.
Click to expand...


You know what?  Since it is the stated goal of the Hamas Charter to commit genocide, and you seem to support the people who elected MURDERERS who clearly want to kill Jews, then it is YOU who supports genocide.


----------



## ChrisL

P F Tinmore said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Were they forceably expelled by the Palestinians?
> 
> How about putting to rest the faux meme about Palestinians being"invented" - the name might be new but the people have been there as long as the Jews.
> 
> I already brought up the expulsion of Jews from Arab countries as an example (several times).
> 
> Do you support ethnic cleansing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you need to lie so much in order for your propaganda to work?
> 
> "Palestinians" are simply Arabs, and Arabs most definitely HAVE indulged in ethnic clensing. *Palestinians  DID NOT exist as a people with any sort of ethnic identity until this was created as a propaganda tool several decades ago.  *
> 
> They should continue to live in the land in which they were actually born, and if they should ever wish to start behaving like humans,should be able to have a sense of self determination in that land.
> 
> ...which is not in the state of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Not true.*
> ----------------
> *The first Palestine Citizenship Order was enacted by Britain on 24 July 1925; it was the first official enactment that outlined the legal definition of a Palestinian.* Its first article defined a Palestinian as a "Turkish subject habitually resident in the territory of Palestine." It defined the territorial criteria for citizenship, and appeared to be nondiscriminatory legislation, which provided granting of citizenship to an applicant, irrespective of their race, religion or language.
> 
> History of Palestinian nationality - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


Palestine (and Israel) was a uninhabitable wasteland before the Israelis came and made it into what it is today.  There were no "peoples" inhabiting that land legally.


----------



## ChrisL

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> there is such a thing as legitimate resistance. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You support intentional murder of innocent people as "legitimate resistance"
> 
> That says all about you that needs to be said.,
Click to expand...


Yet accuses OTHERS of wanting "ethnic cleansing."  The only reason Israel would want such a thing is for peaceful purposes, because they know they will never have peace with these people.  The reason why the Palestinians want it is because of PURE hate.


----------



## ChrisL

pbel said:


> The last massacre of Civilians in Gaza has turned the World against Israel...As usual, the Jewish State (or entity) has turned everyone's stomach with its collective atrocities!
> 
> It has overplayed it's hand this time...
> 
> 
> Israel-Palestine conflict A turn in western thinking - Opinion - Al Jazeera English
> ...It is something of a weather vane of the global view of the conflict that when Abbas spoke he received thunderous applause, while Netanyahu addressed a solemn half empty UN chamber...



They haven't played enough.  They should bomb the living CRAP out of Palestine and not stop until they get ALL of the troublemakers.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like how every last Jew has been clensed from Gaza despite the fact that Jews were living there millenia before the Palestinians were invented or how over 99% of Jews living in Arab lands have been clensed?
> 
> Quoting a definition of ethnic clensing is one thing. Apply the term properly is another.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or along the lines of the en masse expulsions and deportations and pressuring-to-leave of Jews in various Muslim countries, during the 1948-1975 timeframe?
> 
> Payback's a bitch, ain't it? Especially when the payback is coming from the descendants of Dhimmis and their Euro-cousins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There have been a considerable number of large-scale 'ethnic cleansings' undertaken since WWII by countries in good standing on the world stage...
> 
> 1. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old German province of East Prussia - forced by the Russians and the Poles - in the 1945-1947 timeframe.
> 
> 2. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old Bohemian province of Sudetenland - force by the Russians and the Czechs - in the 1945 - 1947 timeframe.
> 
> 3. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Hindus from newly-declared Pakistan, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.
> 
> 4. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Muslims from newly-independent India, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.
> 
> 5. the large-scale ethnic and religious cleansings undertaken by the Soviet Union (Germans, Cossacks, etc.) in the 1945-1951 timeframe.
> 
> 6. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of Greeks from Alexandria, Egypt during the 1957-1962 timeframe
> 
> 7. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of the descendants of Europeans from several African countries during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.
> 
> ...and on and on and on... a long list, indeed, since 1945 - most of them illegal, many of them unethical or distasteful, and a few of them more likely a practical necessity.
> 
> And, as distasteful (and theoretically illegal) as so-called 'ethnic cleansing' is, being the victim of a forcible expulsion is a damned sight better than being slaughtered in place.
> 
> At least a displaced person is still alive at the end of the sequence.
> 
> Unlike the fate of the Jews of Israel, according to the founding-charter documents of various Palestinian and related militant organizations, which have promised to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean if they ever get the chance.
> 
> Ethnic cleansing, as a deadlock-breaker?
> 
> Happens all the time, according to history - even within the realm of Living Memory - and some of it by good friends of ours - countries in good standing on the world stage - and much of that done by the Muslims themselves, to the Jews in the 1948-1975 timeframe.
> 
> If there is anything like that going on in Rump Palestine (what few scraps are left of it, anyway), then, it's the logical consequence of decades of Palestinian intransigence, dating back to the long periods of time in which the Israelis were still open to the idea of a viable and sustainable negotiated settlement.
> 
> Losers (militarily and politically) do not dictate terms, and the Palestinians could have had a modest country of their own, had they but abandoned the old Right of Return claim and let go of Jerusalem, but the Palestinians foolishly continued to insist upon those terms, and the Israelis gave up on dealing with the Palestinians eventually.
> 
> The result: Stalemate - Mexican Standoff - a Gordian Knot.
> 
> After years of trying to un-do that Gordian Knot, the Israelis have (finally, and long-overdue) decide to hack through the Knot, much as Alexander is rumored to have done.
> 
> That means continuing to squeeze the Palestinians long enough and hard enough so that they get the hint and leave.
> 
> I suppose it's possible that there is still time to reverse this course of action and for the Palestinians to eat a long-overdue slice of humble pie and come back to the negotiating table in good faith in a subordinate and inferior position, to see what can still be bargained-for or restored - recognizing Israel's right to exist - dropping claims to Right of Return - and letting go of Jerusalem - but they would do so, hat-in-hand, with the clear understanding that they are the losers, and cannot dictate terms.
> 
> Then again, it may simply be too late by now. Too much blood has flowed. Too much distrust and resentment has built up. Too many betrayals and killings have occurred.
> 
> It seems clear to outside observers, without a stake in all these proceedings, that Israel is slowly but surely creating a state along the lines of the old 1922 League of Nations partitioning proposal...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and, as we look at the Palestinians own propaganda maps of shrinking Palestinian-controlled lands...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...it also seems clear that the Jews of Israel are getting much closer to that (personal opinion-based, perceived) goal. Every year, the second map (above) looks more and more like the first. The symmetry between the two - and to the symmetry between the first map and the perceived historical extent of the dual kingdoms of Israel and Judah - and to the symmetry between the first map and the 'hard borders' of Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon - is inescapable.
> 
> The Arabs of Old Palestine / Transjordan already have their own State.
> 
> The Jews are merely pursuing theirs.
> 
> And, given the beating the Jews took in the Holocaust, much of the non-Muslim world is willing to let them do so, to some extent or another - doing so as a Penance for allowing the Holocaust to happen, and wanting to give the Jews at least one little sliver of the world that they can call their own - the sliver they once held, centuries ago.
> 
> The remaining Arab-Muslim Palestinians of the area are merely in the way of that goal; a goal which seems almost certain to be achieved in the not-too-distant future.
> 
> To borrow a line from an old Bill Cosby comedy routine: "Parents aren't interested in justice, they're interested in peace and quiet."
> 
> In connection with the Israel-Palestinian Conflict - beyond the domains of Islam - the world isn't interested in justice, it just wants this to go away.
> 
> Given that the Jews have the upper hand - by an order of magnitude - and that Losers do not dictate terms - it would be most efficacious if The World found a way to transplant the losing-side Palestinians elsewhere - given them a piece of the Sinai if Egypt is so willing, or scattering them amongst Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, etc. - and putting an end to this unnecessary decades-long and hopeless resistance to the macro-level plan of giving the Jews a home of their own again.
> 
> It's too late now to undo what has already been done, and there are clear Winners and Losers in this struggle.
> 
> And, the losers, having lost the coin-toss for first-bats, have to take the field first, in a 'suckers walk'.
> 
> The region simply isn't big enough to accommodate both Jews and Muslims any longer, in a situation in which the Jews rule the land.
> 
> And, given that the Jews (1) aren't going anywhere and (2) will never allow Palestinian demographics to overwhelm them, there is little left to do but to move the Palestinians elsewhere.
> 
> You can label that as ethnic cleansing or expulsion and eviction or whatever-the-hell you like, but, bottom line, it's a "sucker's walk" - with the losers getting out of Dodge, and starting new and far happier lives elsewhere, and with the 'parents' (the rest of the world) getting the 'peace and quiet' that they want as the outcome from all this.
> 
> This region and this conflict have occupied a vastly disproportionate amount of the world's attention, and the world, at large, is tired of it, and has been, for decades.
> 
> Time to cut the Gordian Knot - time to transplant the Palestinians elsewhere, with the full support and backing of the international community.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I had already brought up the explusion of the Jews from Arab countries. The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities... Page 8 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> Pretty much - regardless of you you try to justify it - ethnic cleansing is WRONG.  It's destroying innocent people.  It's a human rights violation.  If you support it then you're in the same league the Serbs cleansing Bosnia, the Arab nations expelling the Jews, Stalin forceably relocating ethnic minorities to Siberia in order to dilute them and a whole range of other delightful figures.
> 
> The only way it can be justified is by regarding the group being targeted as "less than".
> 
> Edited to add:  Places mean something.  People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation, culture and family.  They aren't pawns to be "relocated" so you can move in a set of new people.
Click to expand...

That is true. The old Indian addage that the land does not belong to the people. The people belong to the land is true.
-----------
In international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established, “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.”5 As a rule, therefore, citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
---------------------------

The people belong in that land no matter who rules it. According to this, the Palestinians who normally lived in the territory that became Israel (including the refugees) are Israeli citizens. It would not be considered immigration for them to return to their homes. It is just their right.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> there is such a thing as legitimate resistance. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You support intentional murder of innocent people as "legitimate resistance"
> 
> That says all about you that needs to be said.,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yet accuses OTHERS of wanting "ethnic cleansing."  The only reason Israel would want such a thing is for peaceful purposes, because they know they will never have peace with these people.  The reason why the Palestinians want it is because of PURE hate.
Click to expand...


You are the one who said the Palestinians should be pushed into Egypt.  So I asked you a straightforward question: do you support Ethnic Cleansing?

I have never supported murder of innocent civilians or ethnic cleansing and I challange you to find one quote where I have.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Were they forceably expelled by the Palestinians?
> 
> How about putting to rest the faux meme about Palestinians being"invented" - the name might be new but the people have been there as long as the Jews.
> 
> I already brought up the expulsion of Jews from Arab countries as an example (several times).
> 
> Do you support ethnic cleansing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you need to lie so much in order for your propaganda to work?
> 
> "Palestinians" are simply Arabs, and Arabs most definitely HAVE indulged in ethnic clensing. *Palestinians  DID NOT exist as a people with any sort of ethnic identity until this was created as a propaganda tool several decades ago.  *
> 
> They should continue to live in the land in which they were actually born, and if they should ever wish to start behaving like humans,should be able to have a sense of self determination in that land.
> 
> ...which is not in the state of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Not true.*
> ----------------
> *The first Palestine Citizenship Order was enacted by Britain on 24 July 1925; it was the first official enactment that outlined the legal definition of a Palestinian.* Its first article defined a Palestinian as a "Turkish subject habitually resident in the territory of Palestine." It defined the territorial criteria for citizenship, and appeared to be nondiscriminatory legislation, which provided granting of citizenship to an applicant, irrespective of their race, religion or language.
> 
> History of Palestinian nationality - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine (and Israel) was a uninhabitable wasteland before the Israelis came and made it into what it is today.  There were no "peoples" inhabiting that land legally.
Click to expand...


That's a joke right?

MidEast Web - Population of Palestine
Historic Population of Israel Palestine
http://www.cjpmo.org/DisplayDocument.aspx?DocumentID=18


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had already brought up the explusion of the Jews from Arab countries. The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities... Page 8 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> Pretty much - regardless of you you try to justify it - ethnic cleansing is WRONG.  It's destroying innocent people.  It's a human rights violation.  If you support it then you're in the same league the Serbs cleansing Bosnia, the Arab nations expelling the Jews, Stalin forceably relocating ethnic minorities to Siberia in order to dilute them and a whole range of other delightful figures.
> 
> The only way it can be justified is by regarding the group being targeted as "less than".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are wrong because in the examples you give above, those people were not lobbing bombs into the countries and attacking their citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.  I'm not wrong.  They are stateless.  Give them a state.  Stop trying to "cleanse them" from the areas they traditionally occupy.  Once they have a state they will have to behave or be considered a pariah in the international community.  Of course if your plan is to cleanse them from all the area that they occupy so you can take their land then that's another point entirely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are NOT "innocent" people.  Their actions are an act of war against Israel.  Israel should expel them because they are nothing but trouble, have been and will continue to be.  Israel should NOT risk it's citizens safety.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They're actions might be an act of war but they are also a people under occupation and there is such a thing as legitimate resistance.  Just like I can't imagine any nation allowing rockets to be lobbed into it's civilian areas without retaliation neither can I imagine a people living under occupation and just accepting it - "yes masta..you want my olive grove for your "settlers"...sure go right ahead".
> 
> Ethnic cleansing is never justifiable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel GAVE them Gaza, and nothing changed.  They have actually stated in the past that their goal is NOT for peace but to destroy the Jews!!!
> 
> *Article Thirteen: Peaceful Solutions, [Peace] Initiatives and International Conferences[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad: “Allah is the all-powerful, but most people are not aware.” From time to time a clamoring is voiced, to hold an International Conference in search for a solution to the problem. Some accept the idea, others reject it, for one reason or another, demanding the implementation of this or that condition, as a prerequisite for agreeing to convene the Conference or for participating in it. But the Islamic Resistance Movement, which is aware of the [prospective] parties to this conference, and of their past and present positions towards the problems of the Muslims, does not believe that those conferences are capable of responding to demands, or of restoring rights or doing justice to the oppressed. Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the nonbelievers as arbitrators in the lands of Islam. Since when did the Unbelievers do justice to the Believers? “And the Jews will not be pleased with thee, nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed. Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah [himself] is the Guidance. And if you should follow their desires after the knowledge which has come unto thee, then you would have from Allah no protecting friend nor helper.” Sura 2 (the Cow), verse 120 There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. The initiatives, proposals and International Conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility. The Palestinian people are too noble to have their future, their right and their destiny submitted to a vain game. As the hadith has it: “The people of Syria are Allah’s whip on this land; He takes revenge by their intermediary from whoever he wished among his worshipers. The Hypocrites among them are forbidden from vanquishing the true believers, and they will die in anxiety and sorrow.” (Told by Tabarani, who is traceable in ascending order of traditionaries to Muhammad, and by Ahmed whose chain of transmission is incomplete. But it is bound to be a true hadith, for both story tellers are reliable. Allah knows best.)*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza *did not belong* to Israel.  Israel can not "give" what *it does not legally own*.  Gaza was under Israeli *occupation.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you purposely ignore the links?  Yes, Israel won the Gaza strip in a war.  To the victors go the spoils, as it should be.
Click to expand...


*Not according to international law.* Even Israeli High Court referred to Gaza prior to it being turned over to the Palestinians as "Occupied Territories" and continues to call West Bank that.

_The *Israeli-occupied territories* are the territories occupied by Israel during the Six-Day War of 1967 from Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. They consist of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem; much of the Golan Heights; the Gaza Strip, though Israel disputes this and argues that since the implementation of its disengagement from Gaza in 2005 it no longer occupies the territory; and, until 1982, the Sinai Peninsula. The West Bank and Gaza Strip are also referred to as the Palestinian territories or Occupied Palestinian Territory. *The Palestinian Authority, the EU,[1] the International Court of Justice,[2] the UN General Assembly[3] and the UN Security Council[4] consider East Jerusalem to be part of the West Bank and occupied by Israel; Israel considers all of Jerusalem to be its capital and sovereign territory. 
The International Court of Justice,[2] the UN General Assembly[3] and the United Nations Security Council regards Israel as the "Occupying Power".*[5] UN Special Rapporteur Richard Falk called Israel’s occupation "an affront to international law."[6] The Israeli High Court of Justice has ruled that Israel holds the West Bank under "belligerent occupation".[7] According to Talia Sasson, the High Court of Justice in Israel, with a variety of different justices sitting, has repeatedly stated for more than 4 decades that Israel’s presence in the West Bank is in violation of international law.[8]


Israeli governments have preferred the term "disputed territories" in the case of the West Bank.[9][10]
_​


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like how every last Jew has been clensed from Gaza despite the fact that Jews were living there millenia before the Palestinians were invented or how over 99% of Jews living in Arab lands have been clensed?
> 
> Quoting a definition of ethnic clensing is one thing. Apply the term properly is another.
> 
> 
> 
> Or along the lines of the en masse expulsions and deportations and pressuring-to-leave of Jews in various Muslim countries, during the 1948-1975 timeframe?
> 
> Payback's a bitch, ain't it? Especially when the payback is coming from the descendants of Dhimmis and their Euro-cousins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There have been a considerable number of large-scale 'ethnic cleansings' undertaken since WWII by countries in good standing on the world stage...
> 
> 1. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old German province of East Prussia - forced by the Russians and the Poles - in the 1945-1947 timeframe.
> 
> 2. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old Bohemian province of Sudetenland - force by the Russians and the Czechs - in the 1945 - 1947 timeframe.
> 
> 3. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Hindus from newly-declared Pakistan, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.
> 
> 4. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Muslims from newly-independent India, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.
> 
> 5. the large-scale ethnic and religious cleansings undertaken by the Soviet Union (Germans, Cossacks, etc.) in the 1945-1951 timeframe.
> 
> 6. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of Greeks from Alexandria, Egypt during the 1957-1962 timeframe
> 
> 7. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of the descendants of Europeans from several African countries during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.
> 
> ...and on and on and on... a long list, indeed, since 1945 - most of them illegal, many of them unethical or distasteful, and a few of them more likely a practical necessity.
> 
> And, as distasteful (and theoretically illegal) as so-called 'ethnic cleansing' is, being the victim of a forcible expulsion is a damned sight better than being slaughtered in place.
> 
> At least a displaced person is still alive at the end of the sequence.
> 
> Unlike the fate of the Jews of Israel, according to the founding-charter documents of various Palestinian and related militant organizations, which have promised to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean if they ever get the chance.
> 
> Ethnic cleansing, as a deadlock-breaker?
> 
> Happens all the time, according to history - even within the realm of Living Memory - and some of it by good friends of ours - countries in good standing on the world stage - and much of that done by the Muslims themselves, to the Jews in the 1948-1975 timeframe.
> 
> If there is anything like that going on in Rump Palestine (what few scraps are left of it, anyway), then, it's the logical consequence of decades of Palestinian intransigence, dating back to the long periods of time in which the Israelis were still open to the idea of a viable and sustainable negotiated settlement.
> 
> Losers (militarily and politically) do not dictate terms, and the Palestinians could have had a modest country of their own, had they but abandoned the old Right of Return claim and let go of Jerusalem, but the Palestinians foolishly continued to insist upon those terms, and the Israelis gave up on dealing with the Palestinians eventually.
> 
> The result: Stalemate - Mexican Standoff - a Gordian Knot.
> 
> After years of trying to un-do that Gordian Knot, the Israelis have (finally, and long-overdue) decide to hack through the Knot, much as Alexander is rumored to have done.
> 
> That means continuing to squeeze the Palestinians long enough and hard enough so that they get the hint and leave.
> 
> I suppose it's possible that there is still time to reverse this course of action and for the Palestinians to eat a long-overdue slice of humble pie and come back to the negotiating table in good faith in a subordinate and inferior position, to see what can still be bargained-for or restored - recognizing Israel's right to exist - dropping claims to Right of Return - and letting go of Jerusalem - but they would do so, hat-in-hand, with the clear understanding that they are the losers, and cannot dictate terms.
> 
> Then again, it may simply be too late by now. Too much blood has flowed. Too much distrust and resentment has built up. Too many betrayals and killings have occurred.
> 
> It seems clear to outside observers, without a stake in all these proceedings, that Israel is slowly but surely creating a state along the lines of the old 1922 League of Nations partitioning proposal...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and, as we look at the Palestinians own propaganda maps of shrinking Palestinian-controlled lands...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...it also seems clear that the Jews of Israel are getting much closer to that (personal opinion-based, perceived) goal. Every year, the second map (above) looks more and more like the first. The symmetry between the two - and to the symmetry between the first map and the perceived historical extent of the dual kingdoms of Israel and Judah - and to the symmetry between the first map and the 'hard borders' of Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon - is inescapable.
> 
> The Arabs of Old Palestine / Transjordan already have their own State.
> 
> The Jews are merely pursuing theirs.
> 
> And, given the beating the Jews took in the Holocaust, much of the non-Muslim world is willing to let them do so, to some extent or another - doing so as a Penance for allowing the Holocaust to happen, and wanting to give the Jews at least one little sliver of the world that they can call their own - the sliver they once held, centuries ago.
> 
> The remaining Arab-Muslim Palestinians of the area are merely in the way of that goal; a goal which seems almost certain to be achieved in the not-too-distant future.
> 
> To borrow a line from an old Bill Cosby comedy routine: "Parents aren't interested in justice, they're interested in peace and quiet."
> 
> In connection with the Israel-Palestinian Conflict - beyond the domains of Islam - the world isn't interested in justice, it just wants this to go away.
> 
> Given that the Jews have the upper hand - by an order of magnitude - and that Losers do not dictate terms - it would be most efficacious if The World found a way to transplant the losing-side Palestinians elsewhere - given them a piece of the Sinai if Egypt is so willing, or scattering them amongst Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, etc. - and putting an end to this unnecessary decades-long and hopeless resistance to the macro-level plan of giving the Jews a home of their own again.
> 
> It's too late now to undo what has already been done, and there are clear Winners and Losers in this struggle.
> 
> And, the losers, having lost the coin-toss for first-bats, have to take the field first, in a 'suckers walk'.
> 
> The region simply isn't big enough to accommodate both Jews and Muslims any longer, in a situation in which the Jews rule the land.
> 
> And, given that the Jews (1) aren't going anywhere and (2) will never allow Palestinian demographics to overwhelm them, there is little left to do but to move the Palestinians elsewhere.
> 
> You can label that as ethnic cleansing or expulsion and eviction or whatever-the-hell you like, but, bottom line, it's a "sucker's walk" - with the losers getting out of Dodge, and starting new and far happier lives elsewhere, and with the 'parents' (the rest of the world) getting the 'peace and quiet' that they want as the outcome from all this.
> 
> This region and this conflict have occupied a vastly disproportionate amount of the world's attention, and the world, at large, is tired of it, and has been, for decades.
> 
> Time to cut the Gordian Knot - time to transplant the Palestinians elsewhere, with the full support and backing of the international community.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I had already brought up the explusion of the Jews from Arab countries. The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities... Page 8 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> Pretty much - regardless of you you try to justify it - ethnic cleansing is WRONG.  It's destroying innocent people.  It's a human rights violation.  If you support it then you're in the same league the Serbs cleansing Bosnia, the Arab nations expelling the Jews, Stalin forceably relocating ethnic minorities to Siberia in order to dilute them and a whole range of other delightful figures.
> 
> The only way it can be justified is by regarding the group being targeted as "less than".
> 
> Edited to add:  Places mean something.  People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation, culture and family.  They aren't pawns to be "relocated" so you can move in a set of new people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, I agree that it's wrong.
> 
> It's just not as wrong as slaughtering the subjects of the discussion.
> 
> Helluvan exercise in Moral Relativism, to be sure.
> 
> But the way that usually happens is that the current crop of folks determine to take that sin upon their own shoulders so that their own people and descendants can live a better life, without the constant bickering.
> 
> Personally, I don't support it, from a moral perspective - it's damned tough to justify and I'm not up to that - but I can see how easily it could happen, in a situation in which there are no other viable options remaining, and it becomes and Us-or-Them kind of political and moral decision.
> 
> Frankly, the best option would be for the international community to relocate them peacefully, but that doesn't seem likely either.
> 
> So, ultimately, with the Israelis already in Us-or-Them mode, they'll choose 'Us'.
> 
> Damned shame, but it's understandable, and, at this late juncture, probably nearly inevitable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pos rep
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol!  Why did you "pos rep" him?  He doesn't agree with you!    Funny!
Click to expand...


Because he makes good arguments.  I may not agree but I can agree-to-disagree and respect a good post and different view points when they're well presented.  Kondor is a good opponent and someone I would enjoy sharing a beer with   Sometimes I even change my mind


----------



## Coyote

montelatici said:


> The Christians and Muslims were living in Palestine.  Jews came from Europe and evicted most of them from Palestine.  That's just a fact.



I call bullshit on that.

There were indiginous Jews living in Palestine as well.

According to the population data available there is no evidence to show that the Zionist immigration displaced Palestinians: MidEast Web - Population of Palestine

_*3. Zionist settlement between 1880 and 1948 did not displace or dispossess Palestinians.* Every indication is that there was net Arab immigration into Palestine in this period, and that the economic situation of Palestinian Arabs improved tremendously under the British Mandate relative to surrounding countries. By 1948, there were approximately 1.35 million Arabs and 650,000  Jews living between the Jordan and the Mediterranean, more Arabs than had ever lived in Palestine before, and more Jews than had lived there since Roman times. Analysis of population by sub-districts shows that Arab population tended to increase the most between 1931 and 1948 in the same areas where there were large proportions of Jews. Therefore, Zionist immigration did not displace Arabs._​


----------



## Dogmaphobe

ChrisL said:


> Your liberal tactics are completely transparent.  Lol!
> 
> Try something else.



Antisemitism is not liberal, though, and neither are the cultural values of those Coyote supports with such blindness and zeal.

  In Israel, women are doctors and scientists. For the Palestinians, they are just brood mares for producing armies of those who wish to kill Jews. In Israel, the highest honors go to nobel prize winners, authors and creators. For the Palestinians, the highest honors go to mass murderers. Israel has gay pride parades, and they transpire without incident. The Palestinians torture and murder gay people.

What Coyote follows is NOT liberalism. Not by a long shot. Coyote simply hates Jews, and especially those who have thrived in the state that affords them a sense of self determination.


----------



## Kondor3

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like how every last Jew has been clensed from Gaza despite the fact that Jews were living there millenia before the Palestinians were invented or how over 99% of Jews living in Arab lands have been clensed?
> 
> Quoting a definition of ethnic clensing is one thing. Apply the term properly is another.
> 
> 
> 
> Or along the lines of the en masse expulsions and deportations and pressuring-to-leave of Jews in various Muslim countries, during the 1948-1975 timeframe?
> 
> Payback's a bitch, ain't it? Especially when the payback is coming from the descendants of Dhimmis and their Euro-cousins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There have been a considerable number of large-scale 'ethnic cleansings' undertaken since WWII by countries in good standing on the world stage...
> 
> 1. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old German province of East Prussia - forced by the Russians and the Poles - in the 1945-1947 timeframe.
> 
> 2. the cleansing of ethnic Germans from the old Bohemian province of Sudetenland - force by the Russians and the Czechs - in the 1945 - 1947 timeframe.
> 
> 3. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Hindus from newly-declared Pakistan, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.
> 
> 4. the (partial, large-scale) cleansing of Muslims from newly-independent India, as old British Imperial India split into independent India and Pakistan - in 1947.
> 
> 5. the large-scale ethnic and religious cleansings undertaken by the Soviet Union (Germans, Cossacks, etc.) in the 1945-1951 timeframe.
> 
> 6. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of Greeks from Alexandria, Egypt during the 1957-1962 timeframe
> 
> 7. the large-scale ethnic cleansing of the descendants of Europeans from several African countries during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.
> 
> ...and on and on and on... a long list, indeed, since 1945 - most of them illegal, many of them unethical or distasteful, and a few of them more likely a practical necessity.
> 
> And, as distasteful (and theoretically illegal) as so-called 'ethnic cleansing' is, being the victim of a forcible expulsion is a damned sight better than being slaughtered in place.
> 
> At least a displaced person is still alive at the end of the sequence.
> 
> Unlike the fate of the Jews of Israel, according to the founding-charter documents of various Palestinian and related militant organizations, which have promised to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean if they ever get the chance.
> 
> Ethnic cleansing, as a deadlock-breaker?
> 
> Happens all the time, according to history - even within the realm of Living Memory - and some of it by good friends of ours - countries in good standing on the world stage - and much of that done by the Muslims themselves, to the Jews in the 1948-1975 timeframe.
> 
> If there is anything like that going on in Rump Palestine (what few scraps are left of it, anyway), then, it's the logical consequence of decades of Palestinian intransigence, dating back to the long periods of time in which the Israelis were still open to the idea of a viable and sustainable negotiated settlement.
> 
> Losers (militarily and politically) do not dictate terms, and the Palestinians could have had a modest country of their own, had they but abandoned the old Right of Return claim and let go of Jerusalem, but the Palestinians foolishly continued to insist upon those terms, and the Israelis gave up on dealing with the Palestinians eventually.
> 
> The result: Stalemate - Mexican Standoff - a Gordian Knot.
> 
> After years of trying to un-do that Gordian Knot, the Israelis have (finally, and long-overdue) decide to hack through the Knot, much as Alexander is rumored to have done.
> 
> That means continuing to squeeze the Palestinians long enough and hard enough so that they get the hint and leave.
> 
> I suppose it's possible that there is still time to reverse this course of action and for the Palestinians to eat a long-overdue slice of humble pie and come back to the negotiating table in good faith in a subordinate and inferior position, to see what can still be bargained-for or restored - recognizing Israel's right to exist - dropping claims to Right of Return - and letting go of Jerusalem - but they would do so, hat-in-hand, with the clear understanding that they are the losers, and cannot dictate terms.
> 
> Then again, it may simply be too late by now. Too much blood has flowed. Too much distrust and resentment has built up. Too many betrayals and killings have occurred.
> 
> It seems clear to outside observers, without a stake in all these proceedings, that Israel is slowly but surely creating a state along the lines of the old 1922 League of Nations partitioning proposal...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and, as we look at the Palestinians own propaganda maps of shrinking Palestinian-controlled lands...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...it also seems clear that the Jews of Israel are getting much closer to that (personal opinion-based, perceived) goal. Every year, the second map (above) looks more and more like the first. The symmetry between the two - and to the symmetry between the first map and the perceived historical extent of the dual kingdoms of Israel and Judah - and to the symmetry between the first map and the 'hard borders' of Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon - is inescapable.
> 
> The Arabs of Old Palestine / Transjordan already have their own State.
> 
> The Jews are merely pursuing theirs.
> 
> And, given the beating the Jews took in the Holocaust, much of the non-Muslim world is willing to let them do so, to some extent or another - doing so as a Penance for allowing the Holocaust to happen, and wanting to give the Jews at least one little sliver of the world that they can call their own - the sliver they once held, centuries ago.
> 
> The remaining Arab-Muslim Palestinians of the area are merely in the way of that goal; a goal which seems almost certain to be achieved in the not-too-distant future.
> 
> To borrow a line from an old Bill Cosby comedy routine: "Parents aren't interested in justice, they're interested in peace and quiet."
> 
> In connection with the Israel-Palestinian Conflict - beyond the domains of Islam - the world isn't interested in justice, it just wants this to go away.
> 
> Given that the Jews have the upper hand - by an order of magnitude - and that Losers do not dictate terms - it would be most efficacious if The World found a way to transplant the losing-side Palestinians elsewhere - given them a piece of the Sinai if Egypt is so willing, or scattering them amongst Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, etc. - and putting an end to this unnecessary decades-long and hopeless resistance to the macro-level plan of giving the Jews a home of their own again.
> 
> It's too late now to undo what has already been done, and there are clear Winners and Losers in this struggle.
> 
> And, the losers, having lost the coin-toss for first-bats, have to take the field first, in a 'suckers walk'.
> 
> The region simply isn't big enough to accommodate both Jews and Muslims any longer, in a situation in which the Jews rule the land.
> 
> And, given that the Jews (1) aren't going anywhere and (2) will never allow Palestinian demographics to overwhelm them, there is little left to do but to move the Palestinians elsewhere.
> 
> You can label that as ethnic cleansing or expulsion and eviction or whatever-the-hell you like, but, bottom line, it's a "sucker's walk" - with the losers getting out of Dodge, and starting new and far happier lives elsewhere, and with the 'parents' (the rest of the world) getting the 'peace and quiet' that they want as the outcome from all this.
> 
> This region and this conflict have occupied a vastly disproportionate amount of the world's attention, and the world, at large, is tired of it, and has been, for decades.
> 
> Time to cut the Gordian Knot - time to transplant the Palestinians elsewhere, with the full support and backing of the international community.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I had already brought up the explusion of the Jews from Arab countries. The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities... Page 8 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> Pretty much - regardless of you you try to justify it - ethnic cleansing is WRONG.  It's destroying innocent people.  It's a human rights violation.  If you support it then you're in the same league the Serbs cleansing Bosnia, the Arab nations expelling the Jews, Stalin forceably relocating ethnic minorities to Siberia in order to dilute them and a whole range of other delightful figures.
> 
> The only way it can be justified is by regarding the group being targeted as "less than".
> 
> Edited to add:  Places mean something.  People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation, culture and family.  They aren't pawns to be "relocated" so you can move in a set of new people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, I agree that it's wrong.
> 
> It's just not as wrong as slaughtering the subjects of the discussion.
> 
> Helluvan exercise in Moral Relativism, to be sure.
> 
> But the way that usually happens is that the current crop of folks determine to take that sin upon their own shoulders so that their own people and descendants can live a better life, without the constant bickering.
> 
> Personally, I don't support it, from a moral perspective - it's damned tough to justify and I'm not up to that - but I can see how easily it could happen, in a situation in which there are no other viable options remaining, and it becomes and Us-or-Them kind of political and moral decision.
> 
> Frankly, the best option would be for the international community to relocate them peacefully, but that doesn't seem likely either.
> 
> So, ultimately, with the Israelis already in Us-or-Them mode, they'll choose 'Us'.
> 
> Damned shame, but it's understandable, and, at this late juncture, probably nearly inevitable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pos rep
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol!  Why did you "pos rep" him?  He doesn't agree with you!    Funny!
Click to expand...

Probably had something to do with me (1) conceding that ethnic cleansing is usually not a moral thing to do and (2) being honest about ethnic cleansing probably being a necessary evil (from an Israeli perspective) in the case of the Palestinians - and a bit of gratification in observing both (1) and (2) - just my own first guess - but she can speak for herself if chooses.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are guilty of a lot of things but at the moment ethnic cleansing isn't one of them.  What they "want" and "rhetoric" isn't action taken.
> 
> If you want to get incensed about ethnic cleansing done by others towards Jews - look at what occurred during the establishment of Israel when Jews were expelled from Arab nations where they had resided for centuries more more.  And ask yourself - was that right?  Humane? Ethical?  If the answer is "no" then how can you support similar expulsions?
> 
> More ethnic cleansing: ISIS - religious minorities, Christians, Azidi's, Muslims without the proper credentials.  Recent history - Rwanda, Bosnia...all examples that included genocide.  Longer back - Stalin's forced relocations of people to dilute ethnic populations.  Lots of examples but right now - the Palestionians aren't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No they do not.  If you think they want peace, you are just fooling yourself.  It is quite obvious to anyone with EYES and EARS and a BRAIN that they are not looking for "peace."  It's NOT in their vocabulary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you support ethnic cleansing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look how you try to use this word as if it's a weapon.  Your liberal tactics are completely transparent.  Lol!  It's like "have you stopped beating your wife?"
> 
> FAIL bucket.
> 
> Try something else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you support ethnic cleansing?  It's a straightforward question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know what?  Since it is the stated goal of the Hamas Charter to commit genocide, and you seem to support the people who elected MURDERERS who clearly want to kill Jews, then it is YOU who supports genocide.
Click to expand...


I don't support Hamas.  Nice try though.

But still no answer to my question


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> And where did I say I support that?  Learn to read Dogma.




 Arabs have been terrorizing Jews in the area since decades before Israel was ever a state. The murder of Jews IS their form of resistance, and just because you think you are so very clever in calling this mass murder "legitimate resistance", decent people see right through your bullshit.

 Murder is never legitimate. Arabs elected governance promising to eradicate Jews, yet you support them unequivocally.


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> And where did I say I support that?  Learn to read Dogma.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs have been terrorizing Jews in the area since decades before Israel was ever a state. The murder of Jews IS their form of resistance, and just because you think you are so very clever in calling this mass murder "legitimate resistance", decent people see right through your bullshit.
> 
> Murder is never legitimate. Arabs elected governance promising to eradicate Jews, yet you support them unequivocally.
Click to expand...




Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> And where did I say I support that?  Learn to read Dogma.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs have been terrorizing Jews in the area since decades before Israel was ever a state. The murder of Jews IS their form of resistance, and just because you think you are so very clever in calling this mass murder "legitimate resistance", decent people see right through your bullshit.
Click to expand...


 "Decent" people should learn to read and not insert their own opinions and labels into other people's words.

It's easy to forget that in the formation of Israel groups like Irgun, Sterns etc committed mass murder on Arabs and Brits though bus and market place bombings.  Was that "legitimate resistance"?



> *Murder is never legitimate.* Arabs elected governance promising to eradicate Jews, yet you support them unequivocally.



I agree - when school buses are targeted or market places or innocent families muirdered - it's murder.  It's not legitimate.

You have *no idea what I support* because you can't read past the end of your nose.  Or maybe you just too lazy and applying labels and insults is easier than thinking.


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your liberal tactics are completely transparent.  Lol!
> 
> Try something else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Antisemitism is not liberal, though, and neither are th*e cultural values of those Coyote supports* with such blindness and zeal.
> 
> In Israel, women are doctors and scientists. For the Palestinians, they are just brood mares for producing armies of those who wish to kill Jews. In Israel, the highest honors go to nobel prize winners, authors and creators. For the Palestinians, the highest honors go to mass murderers. Israel has gay pride parades, and they transpire without incident. The Palestinians torture and murder gay people.
> 
> What Coyote follows is NOT liberalism. Not by a long shot. *Coyote simply hates Jews,* and especially those who have thrived in the state that affords them a sense of self determination.
Click to expand...


Really now?  Perhaps you can supply some quotes to back up your claim of rabid "jew hatred" and my supposed "cultural values"?


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Coyote said:


> You have *no idea what I support* because you can't read past the end of your nose.  .



 I have read you on other boards for quite some time as well as this one, and while you may think all your dishonest double talk fools people, it doesn't. 

 You are intelligent enough to indulge in the typical leftist support for something on one hand while denying you are doing so on the other and you are intelligent enough to incorporate all the hackneyed Pallywood talking points in your rhetoric with just the occasional insincere reservation for the very worst of their atrocities so you can try to claim you are somehow balanced on the subject, but I am smart enough to see through the ruse.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> ...The people belong in that land no matter who rules it. According to this, the Palestinians who normally lived in the territory that became Israel (including the refugees) are Israeli citizens. It would not be considered immigration for them to return to their homes. It is just their right.


Right of Return is quite probably off the table for all time, Tinny, damn precedent, and damn the law, damn the opposition, and damn the consequences.

Why?

Because to admit those 66-year refugees back amongst them is to commit National Suicide.

Ain't gonna happen.

Groups of people have been kicked off their land - and perpetually kept from returning - hundreds - thousands - of times throughout history.

This will be one of those times.

The Jews have been murdered in vast numbers within Living Memory, and they have worked and fought too hard to prevent that from ever happening again - they are not suicidal and that is exactly what they would be diagnosed as, should they (collectively) ever be foolish enough to grant that Right of Return.

Theoretically speaking, to illustrate the point:

If you and I fought over a piece of land, and I won, and you and your family fled the field and holed up somewhere else, and then, after swearing to kill me-and-mine, years later, you start clamoring about a Right of Return to the land...

I would know deep in my gut that you will kill me and my family, or remove me from power over the land, and weaken me to the point where you can either kill me or enslave me or expel me, in turn.

What is my motivation for allowing you to Return?

Peace?

Hardly a motivation, considering that you'll behave yourself just long enough to grow strong again, and then move against me and my family.

Before I allow that to happen, I would either (1) relocate you even further away from me, where we no longer face each other directly, or (2) kill you and your family, to get the thing over with, before you can do the same to me and mine.

Right of Return is forcing the Jews to make the ultimate 'Us or Them' choice.

Like most sane people, and nations, I would choose "Us" before I would choose "Them".

A dangerous state of affairs for you, given that it lies within my power to implement the "Us" decision, while you, on the opposite side of the fence, do not have such power.

I suggest you (collectively) not back the Israelis into that particular corner. You will not like (and may not even survive) the result.

What sane person, or nation, in a position of superior military and economic power, is going to surrender such advantage, and admit a viper into its midst, that will eventually regain its strength and bite me and mine?

Right of Return?

That's been off the table since 1967 or even earlier, and it's sure as hell been off the table since Intifada I and II and the Gaza Wars.

If you want the land back, you're going to have to fight for it.

I"m guessing that the Israelis would benefit greatly from you trying to do just that.

You would be destined to lose, and you would give them the excuse they need, to finish you off.

No, Tinny, get real... come back down out of the clouds on that one... Right of Return is a dead dream... snap out of it, face reality, and make alternative arrangements.


----------



## Hossfly

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...The people belong in that land no matter who rules it. According to this, the Palestinians who normally lived in the territory that became Israel (including the refugees) are Israeli citizens. It would not be considered immigration for them to return to their homes. It is just their right.
> 
> 
> 
> Right of Return is quite probably off the table for all time, Tinny, damn precedent, and damn the law, damn the opposition, and damn the consequences.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Because to admit those 66-year refugees back amongst them is to commit National Suicide.
> 
> Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Groups of people have been kicked off their land - and perpetually kept from returning - hundreds - thousands - of times throughout history.
> 
> This will be one of those times.
> 
> The Jews have been murdered in vast numbers within Living Memory, and they have worked and fought too hard to prevent that from ever happening again - they are not suicidal and that is exactly what they would be diagnosed as, should they (collectively) ever be foolish enough to grant that Right of Return.
> 
> Theoretically speaking, to illustrate the point:
> 
> If you and I fought over a piece of land, and I won, and you and your family fled the field and holed up somewhere else, and then, after swearing to kill me-and-mine, years later, you start clamoring about a Right of Return to the land...
> 
> I would know deep in my gut that you will kill me and my family, or remove me from power over the land, and weaken me to the point where you can either kill me or enslave me or expel me, in turn.
> 
> What is my motivation for allowing you to Return?
> 
> Peace?
> 
> Hardly a motivation, considering that you'll behave yourself just long enough to grow strong again, and then move against me and my family.
> 
> Before I allow that to happen, I would either (1) relocate you even further away from me, where we no longer face each other directly, or (2) kill you and your family, to get the thing over with, before you can do the same to me and mine.
> 
> Right of Return is forcing the Jews to make the ultimate 'Us or Them' choice.
> 
> What sane person, or nation, in a position of superior military and economic power, is going to surrender such advantage, and admit a viper into its midst, that will eventually regain its strength and bite me and mine?
> 
> Right of Return?
> 
> That's been off the table since 1967 or even earlier, and it's sure as hell been off the table since Intifada I and II and the Gaza Wars.
> 
> If you want the land back, you're going to have to fight for it.
> 
> I"m guessing that the Israelis would benefit greatly from you trying to do just that.
> 
> You would be destined to lose, and you would give them the excuse they need, to finish you off.
> 
> No, Tinny, get real... come back down out of the clouds on that one... Right of Return is a dead dream... snap out of it, face reality, and make alternative arrangements.
Click to expand...

Tinmore can't make it past 1947.


----------



## montelatici

Coyote said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Christians and Muslims were living in Palestine.  Jews came from Europe and evicted most of them from Palestine.  That's just a fact.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I call bullshit on that.
> 
> There were indiginous Jews living in Palestine as well.
> 
> According to the population data available there is no evidence to show that the Zionist immigration displaced Palestinians: MidEast Web - Population of Palestine
> 
> _*3. Zionist settlement between 1880 and 1948 did not displace or dispossess Palestinians.* Every indication is that there was net Arab immigration into Palestine in this period, and that the economic situation of Palestinian Arabs improved tremendously under the British Mandate relative to surrounding countries. By 1948, there were approximately 1.35 million Arabs and 650,000  Jews living between the Jordan and the Mediterranean, more Arabs than had ever lived in Palestine before, and more Jews than had lived there since Roman times. Analysis of population by sub-districts shows that Arab population tended to increase the most between 1931 and 1948 in the same areas where there were large proportions of Jews. Therefore, Zionist immigration did not displace Arabs._​
Click to expand...


Of course it did.  Once the British were gone the Zionists implemented Plan Dalet and expelled the non-Jews.  The British prevented the ethnic cleansing that's the only reason the non-Jews were not expelled sooner.

There were hardly any Jews in Palestine prior to 1850.

*AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE, during the period 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921. - *​
"The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. *Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews*."

- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921 

The non-Jewish population increased mostly naturally, not through immigration as is confirmed by the Mandatory in another Interim Report.

6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--






_All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
of population
Increase by
migration
Natural
increase631,272

281,339

349,933286,770

25,168

*261,602*302,294

*245,433*

56,86138,305

10,414

*27,891*3,903

324

3,579
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937


----------



## Kondor3

Hossfly said:


> ...Tinmore can't make it past 1947.


Yeah, that seems to be the case.

If true, then that makes him the perfect Stateside advocate for the Palestinians, who suffer from the same drastic shortcoming.

Any five year old can play the petulant, stubborn victim.

It takes a grown-up to move past the history and to negotiate for whatever might still be possible and sustainable under the present circumstances.

Such petulance and intransigence is not exactly the mark of high-order functioning.

I'm not positive that we can lay that charge against Tinny's feet (_although he seems to be in contention for such a prize_), but a blind man can see that the charge is entirely appropriate, when laid at the feet of the Palestinians.


----------



## Penelope

I believe Kondor 3 is right. The UN really needs to get aggressive or the Arab countries in support of the Pals need to gain up, oh darn if only

Israel didn't have nukes and would take the world with it, if it meant their demise, I really do believe that.

Israel has to go as far as to make its own false flags (which I really believe) and put the blame on the Pals and or Hamas, or whoever, as an excuse to go to war and get more land and kill more Pals.  So for the Pals to start a war, no need Israel will find a reason.

Someone from outside of Israel needs to step in,  and Israel should start to have heavy sanctions by other countries given to it , you know like what is happening to Iran , only much more harsh, until the radical Zioinist gov, learns to act like human beings.

Many in Israel itself want rid of the radical Zionist gov.


















]


----------



## Hossfly

Penelope said:


> I believe Kondor 3 is right. The UN really needs to get aggressive or the Arab countries in support of the Pals need to gain up, oh darn if only
> 
> Israel didn't have nukes and would take the world with it, if it meant their demise, I really do believe that.
> 
> Israel has to go as far as to make its own false flags (which I really believe) and put the blame on the Pals and or Hamas, or whoever, as an excuse to go to war and get more land and kill more Pals.  So for the Pals to start a war, no need Israel will find a reason.
> 
> Someone from outside of Israel needs to step in,  and Israel should start to have heavy sanctions by other countries given to it , you know like what is happening to Iran , only much more harsh, until the radical Zioinist gov, learns to act like human beings.
> 
> Many in Israel itself want rid of the radical Zionist gov.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ]


Hamas really loves your support.


----------



## Coyote

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have *no idea what I support* because you can't read past the end of your nose.  .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have read you *on other boards* for quite some time as well as this one, and while you may think all your dishonest double talk fools people, it doesn't.
Click to expand...


I've only posted a few other boards and those not for years.   My opinions here are what - for the most part - they've always been.  I say what I mean and mean what I say - do not put words in my mouth.  I seem to recall that was your habit. You certainly sound familiar.  A stalker?



> You are intelligent enough to indulge in the typical leftist support for something on one hand while denying you are doing so on the other and you are intelligent enough to incorporate all the hackneyed Pallywood talking points in your rhetoric with just the occasional insincere reservation for the very worst of their atrocities so you can try to claim you are somehow balanced on the subject, but I am smart enough to see through the ruse.



I have no idea what you are talking about but if you are going to accuse me of things then *you damn well better provide proof of them*.  Find a quote or post of mine here to support your claims that I support terrorism, am a rabid anti-semite etc.  If you can't then admit your a *fraud*.

Other than that - try addressing the points I made.  I support my points with sources.  You support your points with insults.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Kondor3 said:


> Because to admit those 66-year refugees back amongst them is to commit National Suicide.
> 
> Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> .




Beyond that is the fact that precious few of the Arabs who are being called "refugees" are over 66 years old, so could not have even been born there much less owned any land (which the vast majority didn't to begin with).

Tinmore, Coyote et al have simply bought in to the propaganda that the Arabs who began calling themselves "Palestinians" for tactical purposes have the right to flood into a land in which they have never lived, and where their grandparents and great grandparents never owned property simply because of the fact that hey created this new identity as a propaganda tool.

Arabs were already  given 78% of Palestine, so the invention of these brand new people was just a ploy to start working on the other 22%.


----------



## Penelope

Hossfly said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe Kondor 3 is right. The UN really needs to get aggressive or the Arab countries in support of the Pals need to gain up, oh darn if only
> 
> Israel didn't have nukes and would take the world with it, if it meant their demise, I really do believe that.
> 
> Israel has to go as far as to make its own false flags (which I really believe) and put the blame on the Pals and or Hamas, or whoever, as an excuse to go to war and get more land and kill more Pals.  So for the Pals to start a war, no need Israel will find a reason.
> 
> Someone from outside of Israel needs to step in,  and Israel should start to have heavy sanctions by other countries given to it , you know like what is happening to Iran , only much more harsh, until the radical Zioinist gov, learns to act like human beings.
> 
> Many in Israel itself want rid of the radical Zionist gov.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ]
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas really loves your support.
Click to expand...


Hamas is no different than the gov of Israel, or even the neocons in our USA. As a matter of fact  , that is their homeland they are fighting for , they are not trying to take over another country or people, just get the ones who fenced them in and stole their land.


----------



## Coyote

montelatici said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Christians and Muslims were living in Palestine.  Jews came from Europe and evicted most of them from Palestine.  That's just a fact.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I call bullshit on that.
> 
> There were indiginous Jews living in Palestine as well.
> 
> According to the population data available there is no evidence to show that the Zionist immigration displaced Palestinians: MidEast Web - Population of Palestine
> 
> _*3. Zionist settlement between 1880 and 1948 did not displace or dispossess Palestinians.* Every indication is that there was net Arab immigration into Palestine in this period, and that the economic situation of Palestinian Arabs improved tremendously under the British Mandate relative to surrounding countries. By 1948, there were approximately 1.35 million Arabs and 650,000  Jews living between the Jordan and the Mediterranean, more Arabs than had ever lived in Palestine before, and more Jews than had lived there since Roman times. Analysis of population by sub-districts shows that Arab population tended to increase the most between 1931 and 1948 in the same areas where there were large proportions of Jews. Therefore, Zionist immigration did not displace Arabs._​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course it did.  Once the British were gone the Zionists implemented Plan Dalet and expelled the non-Jews.  The British prevented the ethnic cleansing that's the only reason the non-Jews were not expelled sooner.
> 
> There were hardly any Jews in Palestine prior to 1850.
> 
> *AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE, during the period 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921. - *​
> "The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. *Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews*."
> 
> - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> The non-Jewish population increased mostly naturally, not through immigration as is confirmed by the Mandatory in another Interim Report.
> 
> 6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> *261,602*302,294
> 
> *245,433*
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> *27,891*3,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
Click to expand...


Looking at your second link - the Jewish population is consistently higher than the Christian population - even at the beginning, prior to any large scale immigration.  Why then do make the statement: "The Christians and Muslims were living in Palestine.  Jews came from Europe and evicted most of them from Palestine." -- excluding the Jews from the population census?  They too are indiginous people.


----------



## montelatici

Coyote said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Christians and Muslims were living in Palestine.  Jews came from Europe and evicted most of them from Palestine.  That's just a fact.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I call bullshit on that.
> 
> There were indiginous Jews living in Palestine as well.
> 
> According to the population data available there is no evidence to show that the Zionist immigration displaced Palestinians: MidEast Web - Population of Palestine
> 
> _*3. Zionist settlement between 1880 and 1948 did not displace or dispossess Palestinians.* Every indication is that there was net Arab immigration into Palestine in this period, and that the economic situation of Palestinian Arabs improved tremendously under the British Mandate relative to surrounding countries. By 1948, there were approximately 1.35 million Arabs and 650,000  Jews living between the Jordan and the Mediterranean, more Arabs than had ever lived in Palestine before, and more Jews than had lived there since Roman times. Analysis of population by sub-districts shows that Arab population tended to increase the most between 1931 and 1948 in the same areas where there were large proportions of Jews. Therefore, Zionist immigration did not displace Arabs._​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course it did.  Once the British were gone the Zionists implemented Plan Dalet and expelled the non-Jews.  The British prevented the ethnic cleansing that's the only reason the non-Jews were not expelled sooner.
> 
> There were hardly any Jews in Palestine prior to 1850.
> 
> *AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE, during the period 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921. - *​
> "The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. *Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews*."
> 
> - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> The non-Jewish population increased mostly naturally, not through immigration as is confirmed by the Mandatory in another Interim Report.
> 
> 6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> *261,602*302,294
> 
> *245,433*
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> *27,891*3,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Looking at your second link - the Jewish population is consistently higher than the Christian population - even at the beginning, prior to any large scale immigration.  Why then do make the statement: "The Christians and Muslims were living in Palestine.  Jews came from Europe and evicted most of them from Palestine." -- excluding the Jews from the population census?  They too are indiginous people.
Click to expand...



No, read carefully. There were hardly any Jews in Palestine prior to the European invasion.  The British say "a handful".

*AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE, during the period 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921. *​
"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*_See_ Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race.* Some 77,000 of the population are Christians*, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

*The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years.* *Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews.*

 - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921


----------



## Penelope

Dogmaphobe said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because to admit those 66-year refugees back amongst them is to commit National Suicide.
> 
> Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beyond that is the fact that precious few of the Arabs who are being called "refugees" are over 66 years old, so could have even been born there much less owned any land (which the vast majority didn't to begin with).
> 
> Tinmore, Coyote et al have simply bought in to the propaganda that the Arabs who began calling themselves "Palestinians" for tactical purposes have the right to flood into a land in which they have never lived, and where their grandparents and great grandparents never owned property simply because of the fact that hey created this new identity as a propaganda tool.
> 
> Arabs were already  given 78% of Palestine, so the invention of these brand new people was just a ploy to start working on the other 22%.
Click to expand...


The top people of Hamas and the one who founded it, were born there and so were their parents and probably their grandparents.


----------



## Kondor3

Dogmaphobe said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because to admit those 66-year refugees back amongst them is to commit National Suicide.
> 
> Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beyond that is the fact that precious few of the Arabs who are being called "refugees" are over 66 years old, so could have even been born there much less owned any land (which the vast majority didn't to begin with).
> 
> Tinmore, Coyote et al have simply bought in to the propaganda that the Arabs who began calling themselves "Palestinians" for tactical purposes have the right to flood into a land in which they have never lived, and where their grandparents and great grandparents never owned property simply because of the fact that hey created this new identity as a propaganda tool.
> 
> Arabs were already  given 78% of Palestine, so the invention of these brand new people was just a ploy to start working on the other 22%.
Click to expand...

The real point being, we need to deal with the here-and-now, rather than 66 years ago, or 100 years ago, or 150 years ago, or whatever.

The Jews now hold the land.

The Jews will still be holding the land 100 years from now.

The Palestinians have lost.

The Palestinians are squeezed onto a few postage-stamp -sized pieces of land, and they need more room to breath.

The Palestinians are going to have to move elsewhere, in order to find that breathing room.

The sooner they pack up and leave and move somewhere else, the sooner we'll have peace and quiet that stands a chance of lasting for some time.

Sucks to be a Palestinian, no doubt, but that's the way of it, as things stand now.

They're in the way - they got their butts kicked - and now it's time for that Loser's Walk, to clear off, and build new and happier lives for themselves, someplace else.

It's time for the UN to step-in and to negotiate a resettlement of the Palestinians in one or more neighboring countries, and to evacuate the few remaining postage-stamp -sized scraps of Old Palestine that they still hold.

They are a defeated and only loosely-knit-together people and they (1) need to clear off, in order to establish a more lasting peace and (2) deserve better lives, elsewhere.

I would be ecstatically happy for the United States - as part of a Palestinian evacuation and resettlement - to join with the rest of the world, to help the Palestinians with moving costs, wergeld (compensation for their troubles), new infrastructure for their new location(s), and with some considerable startup capital and funding, for their first decade or two on their own, in some new location or another.

The Israelis have the upper hand.

The Palestinians cannot win, or even substantively improve their position any longer, where they are now.

The world is not going to force Israel to allow Right of Return or any of that happy horseshit.

Beyond the domains of Islam, the rest of the world does not feel strongly enough about the Palestinians, to risk making war on Israel, on behalf of the Palestinians.

So, if the Israelis have the upper hand, and the Palestinians can't win, and if the world isn't going to bludgeon Israel to death, then what's left?

(1) Perpetual continuation of the present state of affairs, with minor variations, or (2) relocating the Palestinians and giving them a fresh start elsewhere, out of harm's way.

(1) is unacceptable to all concerned, in the long run.

(2) seems most probable - consequently, the sooner the world begins down this path, the fewer lives will be lost in future, and the sooner we'll have peace and quiet.

Q.E.D.


----------



## Penelope

We like to blame it on the British, which they did divide the land strange, but perhaps they did it that way so the people would intermingle and grow together.

Also the british planned it so Jews would slowly come to Palestine, as evident by the White Paper of 1939 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Most of the Jews who came , came illegally, and the rapid influx , one can't blame the Palestinians for revolting. (they even had to house them temp. on Cyprus)

So, no I do not think the Pals need to leave their country.


----------



## montelatici

The Palestinians know time is on their side.  A minority, however strong, will eventually lose out. (Non-Jews currently outnumber the Jews among the population the Jews control and the demographics are ).  The question is how they will lose.  It can be an Algerian solution, a Rhodesian solution a South African solution etc.  It's really up to the Jews.


----------



## Kondor3

Penelope said:


> We like to blame it on the British, which they did divide the land strange, but perhaps they did it that way so the people would intermingle and grow together.
> 
> Also the british planned it so Jews would slowly come to Palestine, but the Zionist as evident by the White Paper of 1939 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Most of the Jews who came , came illegally, and the rapid influx , one can't blame the Palestinians for revolting. (they even had to house them temp. on Cyprus)
> 
> So, no I do not think the Pals need to leave their country.


Blame does not matter.

To a very large extent, the past does not matter.

What _*does*_ matter is the here-and-now.

And moving forward.

In this conflict, there was a winner (Israel), a loser (Palestinians), and it is clear that the two cannot live peacefully side by side.

That leaves the removal or one or the other.

You cannot remove the strong.

That leaves removing the weak.

I"m sure that sucks, from the Loser's perspective, but life (and history) oftentimes isn't fair.

Time to move beyond 'fair' and time to move beyond 'blame', in order to make things better for the Losers, in a manner acceptable to the Winners.


----------



## montelatici

Kondor3 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> We like to blame it on the British, which they did divide the land strange, but perhaps they did it that way so the people would intermingle and grow together.
> 
> Also the british planned it so Jews would slowly come to Palestine, but the Zionist as evident by the White Paper of 1939 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Most of the Jews who came , came illegally, and the rapid influx , one can't blame the Palestinians for revolting. (they even had to house them temp. on Cyprus)
> 
> So, no I do not think the Pals need to leave their country.
> 
> 
> 
> Blame does not matter.
> 
> To a very large extent, the past does not matter.
> 
> What _*does*_ matter is the here-and-now.
> 
> And moving forward.
> 
> In this conflict, there was a winner (Israel), a loser (Palestinians), and it is clear that the two cannot live peacefully side by side.
> 
> That leaves the removal or one or the other.
> 
> You cannot remove the strong.
> 
> That leaves removing the weak.
> 
> I"m sure that sucks, from the Loser's perspective, but life (and history) oftentimes isn't fair.
> 
> Time to move beyond 'fair' and time to move beyond 'blame', in order to make things better for the Losers, in a manner acceptable to the Winners.
Click to expand...



The whites in South Africa, with their nukes and far superior firepower, could not prevent "losing".


----------



## Penelope

Then ok lets deal. We will take the Palestinians  and the Zionist and Jews  living in the US move to Israel , to make room for the Pals here , and the Israel lobby in the US is abolished (no reason for them to be here since there are no Jews living here), and so is any aid going to Israel , as now we need to use it to help the Palestinians get homes and education.

Sound good?


----------



## Kondor3

Penelope said:


> Then ok lets deal. We will take the Palestinians  and the Zionist and Jews  living in the US move to Israel , to make room for the Pals here , and the Israel lobby in the US is abolished (no reason for them to be here since there are no Jews living here), and so is any aid going to Israel , as now we need to use it to help the Palestinians get homes and education.
> 
> Sound good?


Nope.

Move the Palestinians to Jordan and/or Lebanon and/or Egypt and/or some other place(s) in that region or in coastal Africa, once the UN negotiates all those arrangements.

No need (or desire) to do any such thing on our own shores.

The Jews (Israelis) are the winners.

Losers do not dictate terms.


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> No they do not.  If you think they want peace, you are just fooling yourself.  It is quite obvious to anyone with EYES and EARS and a BRAIN that they are not looking for "peace."  It's NOT in their vocabulary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you support ethnic cleansing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look how you try to use this word as if it's a weapon.  Your liberal tactics are completely transparent.  Lol!  It's like "have you stopped beating your wife?"
> 
> FAIL bucket.
> 
> Try something else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you support ethnic cleansing?  It's a straightforward question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know what?  Since it is the stated goal of the Hamas Charter to commit genocide, and you seem to support the people who elected MURDERERS who clearly want to kill Jews, then it is YOU who supports genocide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't support Hamas.  Nice try though.
> 
> But still no answer to my question
Click to expand...


You sure could have fooled me.  You have been defending their atrocious actions this whole time, while trying to make Israel look like they're the bad guys.  Well, I think people with normally functioning brains can see WHO the real problem in this situation is, and it's certainly not the Israelis.  

I already spelled out to you several times that, YES, I support Israel driving the troublemakers back into Egypt.  Let them become THEIR problem.  I couldn't THINK of a better gift for them!!


----------



## ChrisL

This is akin to a Native American knocking on your door, telling  you that your house sits on property that his family once owned back in the 1800s, and that you must leave now or he is going to shoot your children every time they go outside to play.


----------



## Penelope

Kondor3 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then ok lets deal. We will take the Palestinians  and the Zionist and Jews  living in the US move to Israel , to make room for the Pals here , and the Israel lobby in the US is abolished (no reason for them to be here since there are no Jews living here), and so is any aid going to Israel , as now we need to use it to help the Palestinians get homes and education.
> 
> Sound good?
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Move the Palestinians to Jordan and/or Lebanon and/or Egypt and/or some other place(s) in that region or in coastal Africa, once the UN negotiates all those arrangements.
> 
> No need (or desire) to do any such thing on our own shores.
> 
> The Jews (Israelis) are the winners.
> 
> Losers do not dictate terms.
Click to expand...


No don't think so, its a give and take. No deal with me then. You live in the US as I do, but your unwilling to relocate the Pals here.

You can't speak for another nation , only as a citizen of the US and what you'd accept.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...if you consider this ethnic cleansing, you are effectively accusing Israel of ethnically cleansing Gaza...
> 
> The problem though lies in *"intent"*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is SO obvious.  I cannot believe that people are arguing that Israel is the one who wants to wipe out an entire people.  THAT is just not the case.  It is the other way around.  What is wrong with people?  Are they really SO blind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you want to remove an entire ethnic group from a land they have occupied for generations - then that is ethnic cleansing and that is what you claim to support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel gave up the Gaza strip.  I'm saying they should take it back.  Why shouldn't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine, including Gaza,  was inhabited by Muslims and Christians before the Jews invaded from Europe.  They gave back nothing.
Click to expand...




 What Jews invaded Palestine then monti, or are you talking about the legal land owners coming and evicting the squatters from their land. At no time was any part of Palestine bequeathed to the arab muslims by its legal owners, so were was this fictional land ?


----------



## ChrisL

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is SO obvious.  I cannot believe that people are arguing that Israel is the one who wants to wipe out an entire people.  THAT is just not the case.  It is the other way around.  What is wrong with people?  Are they really SO blind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you want to remove an entire ethnic group from a land they have occupied for generations - then that is ethnic cleansing and that is what you claim to support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel gave up the Gaza strip.  I'm saying they should take it back.  Why shouldn't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine, including Gaza,  was inhabited by Muslims and Christians before the Jews invaded from Europe.  They gave back nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Jews invaded Palestine then monti, or are you talking about the legal land owners coming and evicting the squatters from their land. At no time was any part of Palestine bequeathed to the arab muslims by its legal owners, so were was this fictional land ?
Click to expand...


Right, I don't have a deed or any proof, but this is "my" land.  What a crock!  Like I said above, it's akin to a Native American demanding you give up your home because that was his families lands generations ago.  

These people are unrealistic and ridiculous expectations, and I wonder what they think the region would be like then?  Do they actually think these people are going to be "peaceful" suddenly?  Good grief!


----------



## Hossfly

Penelope said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then ok lets deal. We will take the Palestinians  and the Zionist and Jews  living in the US move to Israel , to make room for the Pals here , and the Israel lobby in the US is abolished (no reason for them to be here since there are no Jews living here), and so is any aid going to Israel , as now we need to use it to help the Palestinians get homes and education.
> 
> Sound good?
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Move the Palestinians to Jordan and/or Lebanon and/or Egypt and/or some other place(s) in that region or in coastal Africa, once the UN negotiates all those arrangements.
> 
> No need (or desire) to do any such thing on our own shores.
> 
> The Jews (Israelis) are the winners.
> 
> Losers do not dictate terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No don't think so, its a give and take. No deal with me then. You live in the US as I do, but your unwilling to relocate the Pals here.
> 
> You can't speak for another nation , only as a citizen of the US and what you'd accept.
Click to expand...

Kondor is saying relocate them to their native countries: Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and various other Paradises.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...if you consider this ethnic cleansing, you are effectively accusing Israel of ethnically cleansing Gaza...
> 
> The problem though lies in *"intent"*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is SO obvious.  I cannot believe that people are arguing that Israel is the one who wants to wipe out an entire people.  THAT is just not the case.  It is the other way around.  What is wrong with people?  Are they really SO blind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you want to remove an entire ethnic group from a land they have occupied for generations - then that is ethnic cleansing and that is what you claim to support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel gave up the Gaza strip.  I'm saying they should take it back.  Why shouldn't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What has that got to do with what I said?
> 
> As an aside: Gaza was occupied territory under international law.  You can't "give up" something that never belonged to you in the first place.
Click to expand...




 Israel handed back control of gaza to the P.A. in August 2005 which meant it was no longer occupied. The Palestinians decided to celebrate by lobbing bombs at Israel causing an iron wall to be built to protect Israel. Even the ruling faction in gaza says that it is no longer occupied by Israel.

 For the record the Jews were promised all of Palestine including gaza and the Golan heights by the then LEGAL LAND OWNERS, the UN illegally gave half of this land to the arab muslims.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you serious?  Do you actually believe that Israel is the one who is a country of genocidal maniacs?  Really?  You seem like an intelligent person, and I find it stunning that anyone with half a brain would believe this line of crap!!!???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read more carefully.  You're missing the context of what I am saying.
> 
> Also - ethnic cleansing is not always genocide.
> 
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic *forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous*. The forces applied may be *various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer)*, as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> If you support forcing the Palestinians out of Palestine - then that is ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, why don't you accuse Palestine of it then?  They WANT ethnic cleansing of the Jews from the region, and they are willing to kill them all too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are guilty of a lot of things but at the moment ethnic cleansing isn't one of them.  What they "want" and "rhetoric" isn't action taken.
> 
> If you want to get incensed about ethnic cleansing done by others towards Jews - look at what occurred during the establishment of Israel when Jews were expelled from Arab nations where they had resided for centuries more more.  And ask yourself - was that right?  Humane? Ethical?  If the answer is "no" then how can you support similar expulsions?
> 
> More ethnic cleansing: ISIS - religious minorities, Christians, Azidi's, Muslims without the proper credentials.  Recent history - Rwanda, Bosnia...all examples that included genocide.  Longer back - Stalin's forced relocations of people to dilute ethnic populations.  Lots of examples but right now - the Palestionians aren't.
Click to expand...




 Then who has ethnically cleansed 10% of palestines population in recent years, mostly from gaza. Most of the living population ended up in Israel were they were welcomed and given safety. Look it up they are the Christians of Palestine who tell the world that they were beaten, murdered, forced to convert and raped by the arab muslims of Palestine as they ethnically cleansed the land of all Christians


----------



## Penelope

Hossfly said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then ok lets deal. We will take the Palestinians  and the Zionist and Jews  living in the US move to Israel , to make room for the Pals here , and the Israel lobby in the US is abolished (no reason for them to be here since there are no Jews living here), and so is any aid going to Israel , as now we need to use it to help the Palestinians get homes and education.
> 
> Sound good?
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Move the Palestinians to Jordan and/or Lebanon and/or Egypt and/or some other place(s) in that region or in coastal Africa, once the UN negotiates all those arrangements.
> 
> No need (or desire) to do any such thing on our own shores.
> 
> The Jews (Israelis) are the winners.
> 
> Losers do not dictate terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No don't think so, its a give and take. No deal with me then. You live in the US as I do, but your unwilling to relocate the Pals here.
> 
> You can't speak for another nation , only as a citizen of the US and what you'd accept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Kondor is saying relocate them to their native countries: Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and various other Paradises.
Click to expand...


They are in their native country. Some of the Jews are as well, since intermarriage was so common place as stated in the book of Ezra and ever since. Some of the Jewish are part Persian,  Polish , Russian, and yes even German. No one is a purebred anymore.

PS: I take that back, I bet some of these people are purebreds,

Survival International - The movement for tribal peoples


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> By Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you serious?  Do you actually believe that Israel is the one who is a country of genocidal maniacs?  Really?  You seem like an intelligent person, and I find it stunning that anyone with half a brain would believe this line of crap!!!???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read more carefully.  You're missing the context of what I am saying.
> 
> Also - ethnic cleansing is not always genocide.
> 
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic *forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous*. The forces applied may be *various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer)*, as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> If you support forcing the Palestinians out of Palestine - then that is ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, why don't you accuse Palestine of it then?  They WANT ethnic cleansing of the Jews from the region, and they are willing to kill them all too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are guilty of a lot of things but at the moment ethnic cleansing isn't one of them.  What they "want" and "rhetoric" isn't action taken.
> 
> If you want to get incensed about ethnic cleansing done by others towards Jews - look at what occurred during the establishment of Israel when Jews were expelled from Arab nations where they had resided for centuries more more.  And ask yourself - was that right?  Humane? Ethical?  If the answer is "no" then how can you support similar expulsions?
> 
> More ethnic cleansing: ISIS - religious minorities, Christians, Azidi's, Muslims without the proper credentials.  Recent history - Rwanda, Bosnia...all examples that included genocide.  Longer back - Stalin's forced relocations of people to dilute ethnic populations.  Lots of examples but right now - the Palestionians aren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then who has ethnically cleansed 10% of palestines population in recent years, mostly from gaza. Most of the living population ended up in Israel were they were welcomed and given safety. Look it up they are the Christians of Palestine who tell the world that they were beaten, murdered, forced to convert and raped by the arab muslims of Palestine as they ethnically cleansed the land of all Christians
Click to expand...


What are you talking about?  Why do you make things up?  Here is the truth:


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is SO obvious.  I cannot believe that people are arguing that Israel is the one who wants to wipe out an entire people.  THAT is just not the case.  It is the other way around.  What is wrong with people?  Are they really SO blind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you want to remove an entire ethnic group from a land they have occupied for generations - then that is ethnic cleansing and that is what you claim to support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel gave up the Gaza strip.  I'm saying they should take it back.  Why shouldn't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What has that got to do with what I said?
> 
> As an aside: Gaza was occupied territory under international law.  You can't "give up" something that never belonged to you in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel handed back control of gaza to the P.A. in August 2005 which meant it was no longer occupied. The Palestinians decided to celebrate by lobbing bombs at Israel causing an iron wall to be built to protect Israel. Even the ruling faction in gaza says that it is no longer occupied by Israel.
> 
> For the record the Jews were promised all of Palestine including gaza and the Golan heights by the then LEGAL LAND OWNERS, the UN illegally gave half of this land to the arab muslims.
Click to expand...


Bullshit:

The Mandate states clearly that the rights of the non-Jews could not be prejudiced.  Giving their land to Jews certainly prejudices their civil rights you nitwit.

Per the Mandate:

"it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,"

The Avalon Project The Palestine Mandate


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> By Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you serious?  Do you actually believe that Israel is the one who is a country of genocidal maniacs?  Really?  You seem like an intelligent person, and I find it stunning that anyone with half a brain would believe this line of crap!!!???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read more carefully.  You're missing the context of what I am saying.
> 
> Also - ethnic cleansing is not always genocide.
> 
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic *forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous*. The forces applied may be *various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer)*, as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> If you support forcing the Palestinians out of Palestine - then that is ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, why don't you accuse Palestine of it then?  They WANT ethnic cleansing of the Jews from the region, and they are willing to kill them all too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are guilty of a lot of things but at the moment ethnic cleansing isn't one of them.  What they "want" and "rhetoric" isn't action taken.
> 
> If you want to get incensed about ethnic cleansing done by others towards Jews - look at what occurred during the establishment of Israel when Jews were expelled from Arab nations where they had resided for centuries more more.  And ask yourself - was that right?  Humane? Ethical?  If the answer is "no" then how can you support similar expulsions?
> 
> More ethnic cleansing: ISIS - religious minorities, Christians, Azidi's, Muslims without the proper credentials.  Recent history - Rwanda, Bosnia...all examples that included genocide.  Longer back - Stalin's forced relocations of people to dilute ethnic populations.  Lots of examples but right now - the Palestionians aren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Then who has ethnically cleansed 10% of palestines population in recent years*, mostly from gaza. Most of the living population ended up in Israel were they were welcomed and given safety. Look it up they are the Christians of Palestine who tell the world that they were beaten, murdered, forced to convert and raped by the arab muslims of Palestine as they ethnically cleansed the land of all Christians
Click to expand...


You tell me.

Was there a systemic program of removing a population?  If so - show it to me a link.

Like I said, there is plenty to condemn the Palestinians for, but I haven't yet seen Ethnic Cleansing on the list.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like how* every last Jew has been clensed from Gaza* despite the fact that Jews were living there millenia before the Palestinians were invented or how over 99% of Jews living in Arab lands have been clensed?
> 
> Quoting a definition of ethnic clensing is one thing. Apply the term properly is another.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Were they forceably expelled by the Palestinians?
> 
> How about putting to rest the faux meme about Palestinians being"invented" - the name might be new but the people have been there as long as the Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can muslims who were invented in 625 C.E. have been around 4,500 years ago. That is almost as comical as the team Palestine claims that muslims have been around for
> I already brought up the expulsion of Jews from Arab countries as an example (several times).
> 
> Do you support ethnic cleansing?
Click to expand...




Penelope said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then ok lets deal. We will take the Palestinians  and the Zionist and Jews  living in the US move to Israel , to make room for the Pals here , and the Israel lobby in the US is abolished (no reason for them to be here since there are no Jews living here), and so is any aid going to Israel , as now we need to use it to help the Palestinians get homes and education.
> 
> Sound good?
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Move the Palestinians to Jordan and/or Lebanon and/or Egypt and/or some other place(s) in that region or in coastal Africa, once the UN negotiates all those arrangements.
> 
> No need (or desire) to do any such thing on our own shores.
> 
> The Jews (Israelis) are the winners.
> 
> Losers do not dictate terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No don't think so, its a give and take. No deal with me then. You live in the US as I do, but your unwilling to relocate the Pals here.
> 
> You can't speak for another nation , only as a citizen of the US and what you'd accept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Kondor is saying relocate them to their native countries: Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and various other Paradises.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are in their native country. Some of the Jews are as well, since intermarriage was so common place as stated in the book of Ezra and ever since. Some of the Jewish are part Persian,  Polish , Russian, and yes even German. No one is a purebred anymore.
Click to expand...




 Since when has Palestine been part or Arabia peninsular. This makes any arab muslim and INVADER and an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT. The Jews are the LEGAL OWNERS of Palestine under Customary International Law if you bother to check, the arab muslims are illegal aliens squatting on Jewish land.


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is SO obvious.  I cannot believe that people are arguing that Israel is the one who wants to wipe out an entire people.  THAT is just not the case.  It is the other way around.  What is wrong with people?  Are they really SO blind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you want to remove an entire ethnic group from a land they have occupied for generations - then that is ethnic cleansing and that is what you claim to support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel gave up the Gaza strip.  I'm saying they should take it back.  Why shouldn't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What has that got to do with what I said?
> 
> As an aside: Gaza was occupied territory under international law.  You can't "give up" something that never belonged to you in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel handed back control of gaza to the P.A. in August 2005 which meant it was no longer occupied. The Palestinians decided to celebrate by lobbing bombs at Israel causing an iron wall to be built to protect Israel. Even the ruling faction in gaza says that it is no longer occupied by Israel.
> 
> For the record the Jews were promised all of Palestine including gaza and the Golan heights by the then LEGAL LAND OWNERS, the UN illegally gave half of this land to the arab muslims.
Click to expand...



When you control air space, territorial sea and land border and occasionally lob bombs into the place murdering hundreds of children, it is an occupation.  The UN considers it occupied territory and so does the law.


----------



## Penelope

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like how* every last Jew has been clensed from Gaza* despite the fact that Jews were living there millenia before the Palestinians were invented or how over 99% of Jews living in Arab lands have been clensed?
> 
> Quoting a definition of ethnic clensing is one thing. Apply the term properly is another.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Were they forceably expelled by the Palestinians?
> 
> How about putting to rest the faux meme about Palestinians being"invented" - the name might be new but the people have been there as long as the Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can muslims who were invented in 625 C.E. have been around 4,500 years ago. That is almost as comical as the team Palestine claims that muslims have been around for
> I already brought up the expulsion of Jews from Arab countries as an example (several times).
> 
> Do you support ethnic cleansing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Hossfly said:
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> 
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> Penelope said:
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> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then ok lets deal. We will take the Palestinians  and the Zionist and Jews  living in the US move to Israel , to make room for the Pals here , and the Israel lobby in the US is abolished (no reason for them to be here since there are no Jews living here), and so is any aid going to Israel , as now we need to use it to help the Palestinians get homes and education.
> 
> Sound good?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Move the Palestinians to Jordan and/or Lebanon and/or Egypt and/or some other place(s) in that region or in coastal Africa, once the UN negotiates all those arrangements.
> 
> No need (or desire) to do any such thing on our own shores.
> 
> The Jews (Israelis) are the winners.
> 
> Losers do not dictate terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No don't think so, its a give and take. No deal with me then. You live in the US as I do, but your unwilling to relocate the Pals here.
> 
> You can't speak for another nation , only as a citizen of the US and what you'd accept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Kondor is saying relocate them to their native countries: Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and various other Paradises.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are in their native country. Some of the Jews are as well, siintermarriage was so common place as stated in the book of Ezra and ever since. Some of the Jewish are part Persian,  Polish , Russian, and yes even German. No one is a purebred anymore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since when has Palestine been part or Arabia peninsular. This makes any arab muslim and INVADER and an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT. The Jews are the LEGAL OWNERS of Palestine under Customary International Law if you bother to check, the arab muslims are illegal aliens squatting on Jewish land.
Click to expand...


Well the 700,000 Pals and their kids and grandkids are are legal citizens of pals if the Zionist like it or not, very few of them are.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
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> Coyote said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> Coyote said:
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> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you serious?  Do you actually believe that Israel is the one who is a country of genocidal maniacs?  Really?  You seem like an intelligent person, and I find it stunning that anyone with half a brain would believe this line of crap!!!???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read more carefully.  You're missing the context of what I am saying.
> 
> Also - ethnic cleansing is not always genocide.
> 
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic *forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous*. The forces applied may be *various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer)*, as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> If you support forcing the Palestinians out of Palestine - then that is ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, why don't you accuse Palestine of it then?  They WANT ethnic cleansing of the Jews from the region, and they are willing to kill them all too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are guilty of a lot of things but at the moment ethnic cleansing isn't one of them.  What they "want" and "rhetoric" isn't action taken.
> 
> If you want to get incensed about ethnic cleansing done by others towards Jews - look at what occurred during the establishment of Israel when Jews were expelled from Arab nations where they had resided for centuries more more.  And ask yourself - was that right?  Humane? Ethical?  If the answer is "no" then how can you support similar expulsions?
> 
> More ethnic cleansing: ISIS - religious minorities, Christians, Azidi's, Muslims without the proper credentials.  Recent history - Rwanda, Bosnia...all examples that included genocide.  Longer back - Stalin's forced relocations of people to dilute ethnic populations.  Lots of examples but right now - the Palestionians aren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then who has ethnically cleansed 10% of palestines population in recent years, mostly from gaza. Most of the living population ended up in Israel were they were welcomed and given safety. Look it up they are the Christians of Palestine who tell the world that they were beaten, murdered, forced to convert and raped by the arab muslims of Palestine as they ethnically cleansed the land of all Christians
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What are you talking about?  Why do you make things up?  Here is the truth:
Click to expand...




ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA, the fact is the Christian population of Palestine has declined in recent years due to arab muslim ethnic cleansing.

 Here you go monti the evidence

Ethnic Cleansing Christians Middle East Gaza Islamists


----------



## montelatici

Hossfly said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then ok lets deal. We will take the Palestinians  and the Zionist and Jews  living in the US move to Israel , to make room for the Pals here , and the Israel lobby in the US is abolished (no reason for them to be here since there are no Jews living here), and so is any aid going to Israel , as now we need to use it to help the Palestinians get homes and education.
> 
> Sound good?
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Move the Palestinians to Jordan and/or Lebanon and/or Egypt and/or some other place(s) in that region or in coastal Africa, once the UN negotiates all those arrangements.
> 
> No need (or desire) to do any such thing on our own shores.
> 
> The Jews (Israelis) are the winners.
> 
> Losers do not dictate terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No don't think so, its a give and take. No deal with me then. You live in the US as I do, but your unwilling to relocate the Pals here.
> 
> You can't speak for another nation , only as a citizen of the US and what you'd accept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Kondor is saying relocate them to their native countries: Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and various other Paradises.
Click to expand...


Their native country is Palestine.  The Jew's native countries are in Europe, North Africa and elsewhere.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you support ethnic cleansing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look how you try to use this word as if it's a weapon.  Your liberal tactics are completely transparent.  Lol!  It's like "have you stopped beating your wife?"
> 
> FAIL bucket.
> 
> Try something else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you support ethnic cleansing?  It's a straightforward question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know what?  Since it is the stated goal of the Hamas Charter to commit genocide, and you seem to support the people who elected MURDERERS who clearly want to kill Jews, then it is YOU who supports genocide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't support Hamas.  Nice try though.
> 
> But still no answer to my question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You sure could have fooled me.
Click to expand...


*Show me where I have EVER supported terrorist tactics or Hamas or the murder of innocent civilians.*



> You have been defending their atrocious actions this whole time, while trying to make Israel look like they're the bad guys.


*Show me where I've defended atrocious actions.  

*


> Well, I think people with normally functioning brains can see WHO the real problem in this situation is, and it's certainly not the Israelis.



It takes two to tango.  In this conflict there are NO angel and a lot of wrongs committed by both sides.



> I already spelled out to you several times that, YES, I support Israel driving the troublemakers back into Egypt.  Let them become THEIR problem.  I couldn't THINK of a better gift for them!!



Then be honest.  *Say you support ethnic cleansing. *


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> This is akin to a Native American knocking on your door, telling  you that your house sits on property that his family once owned back in the 1800s, and that you must leave now or he is going to shoot your children every time they go outside to play.



Except unlike the Native American in the 1800's there are people alive who owned property that's been stolen.  It's in living memory not ancient history.


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is SO obvious.  I cannot believe that people are arguing that Israel is the one who wants to wipe out an entire people.  THAT is just not the case.  It is the other way around.  What is wrong with people?  Are they really SO blind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you want to remove an entire ethnic group from a land they have occupied for generations - then that is ethnic cleansing and that is what you claim to support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel gave up the Gaza strip.  I'm saying they should take it back.  Why shouldn't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine, including Gaza,  was inhabited by Muslims and Christians before the Jews invaded from Europe.  They gave back nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Jews invaded Palestine then monti, or are you talking about the legal land owners coming and evicting the squatters from their land. At no time was any part of Palestine bequeathed to the arab muslims by its legal owners, so were was this fictional land ?
Click to expand...


There were no "squatters".


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
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> 
> 
> 
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> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is SO obvious.  I cannot believe that people are arguing that Israel is the one who wants to wipe out an entire people.  THAT is just not the case.  It is the other way around.  What is wrong with people?  Are they really SO blind?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to remove an entire ethnic group from a land they have occupied for generations - then that is ethnic cleansing and that is what you claim to support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel gave up the Gaza strip.  I'm saying they should take it back.  Why shouldn't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What has that got to do with what I said?
> 
> As an aside: Gaza was occupied territory under international law.  You can't "give up" something that never belonged to you in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel handed back control of gaza to the P.A. in August 2005 which meant it was no longer occupied. The Palestinians decided to celebrate by lobbing bombs at Israel causing an iron wall to be built to protect Israel. Even the ruling faction in gaza says that it is no longer occupied by Israel.
> 
> For the record the Jews were promised all of Palestine including gaza and the Golan heights by the then LEGAL LAND OWNERS, the UN illegally gave half of this land to the arab muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit:
> 
> The Mandate states clearly that the rights of the non-Jews could not be prejudiced.  Giving their land to Jews certainly prejudices their civil rights you nitwit.
> 
> Per the Mandate:
> 
> "it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,"
> 
> The Avalon Project The Palestine Mandate
Click to expand...




 And the rights of the arab muslims were kept intact by the Jews it was the arab league that took them away when it refused to allow the Palestinians to declare independence. As I keep telling you the arab muslims had no legal right to the land under International law, the legal owners did not grant them any land in Palestine other than trans Jordan. And as the Jewish declaration of independence states the arab muslims are welcome to stay as full citizens on the understanding they do so as peaceful inhabitants.


----------



## Coyote

montelatici said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then ok lets deal. We will take the Palestinians  and the Zionist and Jews  living in the US move to Israel , to make room for the Pals here , and the Israel lobby in the US is abolished (no reason for them to be here since there are no Jews living here), and so is any aid going to Israel , as now we need to use it to help the Palestinians get homes and education.
> 
> Sound good?
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Move the Palestinians to Jordan and/or Lebanon and/or Egypt and/or some other place(s) in that region or in coastal Africa, once the UN negotiates all those arrangements.
> 
> No need (or desire) to do any such thing on our own shores.
> 
> The Jews (Israelis) are the winners.
> 
> Losers do not dictate terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No don't think so, its a give and take. No deal with me then. You live in the US as I do, but your unwilling to relocate the Pals here.
> 
> You can't speak for another nation , only as a citizen of the US and what you'd accept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Kondor is saying relocate them to their native countries: Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and various other Paradises.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Their native country is Palestine.  The Jew's native countries are in Europe, North Africa and elsewhere.
Click to expand...


No.  Israel is their native country too.

They all need to learn to share Palestine and recognize each other's rights without murder, terrorism and ethnic cleansing.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
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> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is SO obvious.  I cannot believe that people are arguing that Israel is the one who wants to wipe out an entire people.  THAT is just not the case.  It is the other way around.  What is wrong with people?  Are they really SO blind?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to remove an entire ethnic group from a land they have occupied for generations - then that is ethnic cleansing and that is what you claim to support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel gave up the Gaza strip.  I'm saying they should take it back.  Why shouldn't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What has that got to do with what I said?
> 
> As an aside: Gaza was occupied territory under international law.  You can't "give up" something that never belonged to you in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel handed back control of gaza to the P.A. in August 2005 which meant it was no longer occupied. The Palestinians decided to celebrate by lobbing bombs at Israel causing an iron wall to be built to protect Israel. Even the ruling faction in gaza says that it is no longer occupied by Israel.
> 
> For the record the Jews were promised all of Palestine including gaza and the Golan heights by the then LEGAL LAND OWNERS, the UN illegally gave half of this land to the arab muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> When you control air space, territorial sea and land border and occasionally lob bombs into the place murdering hundreds of children, it is an occupation.  The UN considers it occupied territory and so does the law.
Click to expand...





And the rulers of gaza say that they are not occupied and they should know being on the ground and in control of gaza. Israel no more occupies gaza than the USA or UK does. and they have the same laws governing transit from and to gaza into the USA and UK as Israel has.


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to remove an entire ethnic group from a land they have occupied for generations - then that is ethnic cleansing and that is what you claim to support.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel gave up the Gaza strip.  I'm saying they should take it back.  Why shouldn't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What has that got to do with what I said?
> 
> As an aside: Gaza was occupied territory under international law.  You can't "give up" something that never belonged to you in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel handed back control of gaza to the P.A. in August 2005 which meant it was no longer occupied. The Palestinians decided to celebrate by lobbing bombs at Israel causing an iron wall to be built to protect Israel. Even the ruling faction in gaza says that it is no longer occupied by Israel.
> 
> For the record the Jews were promised all of Palestine including gaza and the Golan heights by the then LEGAL LAND OWNERS, the UN illegally gave half of this land to the arab muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit:
> 
> The Mandate states clearly that the rights of the non-Jews could not be prejudiced.  Giving their land to Jews certainly prejudices their civil rights you nitwit.
> 
> Per the Mandate:
> 
> "it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,"
> 
> The Avalon Project The Palestine Mandate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the rights of the arab muslims were kept intact by the Jews it was the arab league that took them away when it refused to allow the Palestinians to declare independence. As I keep telling you the arab muslims had no legal right to the land under International law, the legal owners did not grant them any land in Palestine other than trans Jordan. And as the Jewish declaration of independence states the arab muslims are welcome to stay as full citizens on the understanding they do so as peaceful inhabitants.
Click to expand...




Hossfly said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then ok lets deal. We will take the Palestinians  and the Zionist and Jews  living in the US move to Israel , to make room for the Pals here , and the Israel lobby in the US is abolished (no reason for them to be here since there are no Jews living here), and so is any aid going to Israel , as now we need to use it to help the Palestinians get homes and education.
> 
> Sound good?
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Move the Palestinians to Jordan and/or Lebanon and/or Egypt and/or some other place(s) in that region or in coastal Africa, once the UN negotiates all those arrangements.
> 
> No need (or desire) to do any such thing on our own shores.
> 
> The Jews (Israelis) are the winners.
> 
> Losers do not dictate terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No don't think so, its a give and take. No deal with me then. You live in the US as I do, but your unwilling to relocate the Pals here.
> 
> You can't speak for another nation , only as a citizen of the US and what you'd accept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Kondor is saying relocate them to their native countries: Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and various other Paradises.
Click to expand...


Their native country is Palestine.


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Read more carefully.  You're missing the context of what I am saying.
> 
> Also - ethnic cleansing is not always genocide.
> 
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic *forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous*. The forces applied may be *various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer)*, as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> If you support forcing the Palestinians out of Palestine - then that is ethnic cleansing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, why don't you accuse Palestine of it then?  They WANT ethnic cleansing of the Jews from the region, and they are willing to kill them all too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are guilty of a lot of things but at the moment ethnic cleansing isn't one of them.  What they "want" and "rhetoric" isn't action taken.
> 
> If you want to get incensed about ethnic cleansing done by others towards Jews - look at what occurred during the establishment of Israel when Jews were expelled from Arab nations where they had resided for centuries more more.  And ask yourself - was that right?  Humane? Ethical?  If the answer is "no" then how can you support similar expulsions?
> 
> More ethnic cleansing: ISIS - religious minorities, Christians, Azidi's, Muslims without the proper credentials.  Recent history - Rwanda, Bosnia...all examples that included genocide.  Longer back - Stalin's forced relocations of people to dilute ethnic populations.  Lots of examples but right now - the Palestionians aren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then who has ethnically cleansed 10% of palestines population in recent years, mostly from gaza. Most of the living population ended up in Israel were they were welcomed and given safety. Look it up they are the Christians of Palestine who tell the world that they were beaten, murdered, forced to convert and raped by the arab muslims of Palestine as they ethnically cleansed the land of all Christians
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What are you talking about?  Why do you make things up?  Here is the truth:
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA, the fact is the Christian population of Palestine has declined in recent years due to arab muslim ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Here you go monti the evidence
> 
> Ethnic Cleansing Christians Middle East Gaza Islamists
Click to expand...


 How about some news from CBS instead of propaganda.

Christians are leaving becuase of the Israeli occupation, not because of the Muslims.

<embed src="http://cnettv.cnet.com/av/video/cbsnews/atlantis2/cbsnews_player_embed.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" background="#333333" width="425" height="279" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" FlashVars="si=254&contentValue=50123562&shareUrl=Christians of the Holy Land - 60 Minutes Videos - CBS News" />


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
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> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
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> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Read more carefully.  You're missing the context of what I am saying.
> 
> Also - ethnic cleansing is not always genocide.
> 
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic *forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous*. The forces applied may be *various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer)*, as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> If you support forcing the Palestinians out of Palestine - then that is ethnic cleansing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, why don't you accuse Palestine of it then?  They WANT ethnic cleansing of the Jews from the region, and they are willing to kill them all too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are guilty of a lot of things but at the moment ethnic cleansing isn't one of them.  What they "want" and "rhetoric" isn't action taken.
> 
> If you want to get incensed about ethnic cleansing done by others towards Jews - look at what occurred during the establishment of Israel when Jews were expelled from Arab nations where they had resided for centuries more more.  And ask yourself - was that right?  Humane? Ethical?  If the answer is "no" then how can you support similar expulsions?
> 
> More ethnic cleansing: ISIS - religious minorities, Christians, Azidi's, Muslims without the proper credentials.  Recent history - Rwanda, Bosnia...all examples that included genocide.  Longer back - Stalin's forced relocations of people to dilute ethnic populations.  Lots of examples but right now - the Palestionians aren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then who has ethnically cleansed 10% of palestines population in recent years, mostly from gaza. Most of the living population ended up in Israel were they were welcomed and given safety. Look it up they are the Christians of Palestine who tell the world that they were beaten, murdered, forced to convert and raped by the arab muslims of Palestine as they ethnically cleansed the land of all Christians
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What are you talking about?  Why do you make things up?  Here is the truth:
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA, the fact is the Christian population of Palestine has declined in recent years due to arab muslim ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Here you go monti the evidence
> 
> Ethnic Cleansing Christians Middle East Gaza Islamists
Click to expand...



"The story about Hamas and other Islamists the Western media is not telling"

Anytime I see that sort of statement I have serious doubts about the source.

The examples of ethnic cleansing I gave are well documented: Bosnia, Arab expulsions of Jews, Rwanda and even Israel's ethnic cleansing of Arabs from East Jeruselum.


----------



## aris2chat

ChrisL said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is SO obvious.  I cannot believe that people are arguing that Israel is the one who wants to wipe out an entire people.  THAT is just not the case.  It is the other way around.  What is wrong with people?  Are they really SO blind?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to remove an entire ethnic group from a land they have occupied for generations - then that is ethnic cleansing and that is what you claim to support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel gave up the Gaza strip.  I'm saying they should take it back.  Why shouldn't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine, including Gaza,  was inhabited by Muslims and Christians before the Jews invaded from Europe.  They gave back nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Jews invaded Palestine then monti, or are you talking about the legal land owners coming and evicting the squatters from their land. At no time was any part of Palestine bequeathed to the arab muslims by its legal owners, so were was this fictional land ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right, I don't have a deed or any proof, but this is "my" land.  What a crock!  Like I said above, it's akin to a Native American demanding you give up your home because that was his families lands generations ago.
> 
> These people are unrealistic and ridiculous expectations, and I wonder what they think the region would be like then?  Do they actually think these people are going to be "peaceful" suddenly?  Good grief!
Click to expand...


In the camps in beirut, palestinians were handed old keys and the publishing house were printing fake deed for those keys.


----------



## Phoenall

Penelope said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like how* every last Jew has been clensed from Gaza* despite the fact that Jews were living there millenia before the Palestinians were invented or how over 99% of Jews living in Arab lands have been clensed?
> 
> Quoting a definition of ethnic clensing is one thing. Apply the term properly is another.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Were they forceably expelled by the Palestinians?
> 
> How about putting to rest the faux meme about Palestinians being"invented" - the name might be new but the people have been there as long as the Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can muslims who were invented in 625 C.E. have been around 4,500 years ago. That is almost as comical as the team Palestine claims that muslims have been around for
> I already brought up the expulsion of Jews from Arab countries as an example (several times).
> 
> Do you support ethnic cleansing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Move the Palestinians to Jordan and/or Lebanon and/or Egypt and/or some other place(s) in that region or in coastal Africa, once the UN negotiates all those arrangements.
> 
> No need (or desire) to do any such thing on our own shores.
> 
> The Jews (Israelis) are the winners.
> 
> Losers do not dictate terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No don't think so, its a give and take. No deal with me then. You live in the US as I do, but your unwilling to relocate the Pals here.
> 
> You can't speak for another nation , only as a citizen of the US and what you'd accept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Kondor is saying relocate them to their native countries: Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and various other Paradises.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are in their native country. Some of the Jews are as well, siintermarriage was so common place as stated in the book of Ezra and ever since. Some of the Jewish are part Persian,  Polish , Russian, and yes even German. No one is a purebred anymore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since when has Palestine been part or Arabia peninsular. This makes any arab muslim and INVADER and an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT. The Jews are the LEGAL OWNERS of Palestine under Customary International Law if you bother to check, the arab muslims are illegal aliens squatting on Jewish land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well the 700,000 Pals and their kids and grandkids are are legal citizens of pals if the Zionist like it or not, very few of them are.
Click to expand...





 So does this make me a Palestinian then because my father once walked the streets of Jerusalem before I was born. ( he served in the British army and was stationed in the M.E. for a short time ) Or will you invoke the Palestinian version of right of return and make any one who was not born in Palestine before the Zionist immigration to Palestine in 1850 an illegal immigrant. No children or grandchildren just the men born before 1850. ( PLO charter )

I believe the Palestinians are forging copies of the title deeds to claim land ownership, and then finding out that the archives contain copies of the true land owners


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> *Ethnic cleansing* is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically or religiously homogeneous. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like how* every last Jew has been clensed from Gaza* despite the fact that Jews were living there millenia before the Palestinians were invented or how over 99% of Jews living in Arab lands have been clensed?
> 
> Quoting a definition of ethnic clensing is one thing. Apply the term properly is another.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Were they forceably expelled by the Palestinians?
> 
> How about putting to rest the faux meme about Palestinians being"invented" - the name might be new but the people have been there as long as the Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can muslims who were invented in 625 C.E. have been around 4,500 years ago. That is almost as comical as the team Palestine claims that muslims have been around for
> I already brought up the expulsion of Jews from Arab countries as an example (several times).
> 
> Do you support ethnic cleansing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> No don't think so, its a give and take. No deal with me then. You live in the US as I do, but your unwilling to relocate the Pals here.
> 
> You can't speak for another nation , only as a citizen of the US and what you'd accept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Kondor is saying relocate them to their native countries: Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and various other Paradises.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are in their native country. Some of the Jews are as well, siintermarriage was so common place as stated in the book of Ezra and ever since. Some of the Jewish are part Persian,  Polish , Russian, and yes even German. No one is a purebred anymore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since when has Palestine been part or Arabia peninsular. This makes any arab muslim and INVADER and an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT. The Jews are the LEGAL OWNERS of Palestine under Customary International Law if you bother to check, the arab muslims are illegal aliens squatting on Jewish land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well the 700,000 Pals and their kids and grandkids are are legal citizens of pals if the Zionist like it or not, very few of them are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So does this make me a Palestinian then because my father once walked the streets of Jerusalem before I was born. ( he served in the British army and was stationed in the M.E. for a short time ) Or will you invoke the Palestinian version of right of return and make any one who was not born in Palestine before the Zionist immigration to Palestine in 1850 an illegal immigrant. No children or grandchildren just the men born before 1850. ( PLO charter )
> 
> I believe the Palestinians are forging copies of the title deeds to claim land ownership, and then finding out that the archives contain copies of the true land owners
Click to expand...


The land registries don't lie.  Christians and Muslims owned 90% of the land of Palestine as per the British Survey of Palestine in 1946:


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is SO obvious.  I cannot believe that people are arguing that Israel is the one who wants to wipe out an entire people.  THAT is just not the case.  It is the other way around.  What is wrong with people?  Are they really SO blind?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to remove an entire ethnic group from a land they have occupied for generations - then that is ethnic cleansing and that is what you claim to support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel gave up the Gaza strip.  I'm saying they should take it back.  Why shouldn't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine, including Gaza,  was inhabited by Muslims and Christians before the Jews invaded from Europe.  They gave back nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Jews invaded Palestine then monti, or are you talking about the legal land owners coming and evicting the squatters from their land. At no time was any part of Palestine bequeathed to the arab muslims by its legal owners, so were was this fictional land ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There were no "squatters".
Click to expand...




They were never land owners and were just travelling nomadic farm workers in the main. They acted just like the muslims of old and took what land they wanted until they had worn it out and then discarded it and moved on. 3 Times they stole Hebron from the Jews and 3 times they destroyed the land through lack of intelligence and laziness.

 Now produce the treaty by the ottomans or LoN that gives the land of Palestine to the arab muslims..............


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like how* every last Jew has been clensed from Gaza* despite the fact that Jews were living there millenia before the Palestinians were invented or how over 99% of Jews living in Arab lands have been clensed?
> 
> Quoting a definition of ethnic clensing is one thing. Apply the term properly is another.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Were they forceably expelled by the Palestinians?
> 
> How about putting to rest the faux meme about Palestinians being"invented" - the name might be new but the people have been there as long as the Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can muslims who were invented in 625 C.E. have been around 4,500 years ago. That is almost as comical as the team Palestine claims that muslims have been around for
> I already brought up the expulsion of Jews from Arab countries as an example (several times).
> 
> Do you support ethnic cleansing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor is saying relocate them to their native countries: Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and various other Paradises.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are in their native country. Some of the Jews are as well, siintermarriage was so common place as stated in the book of Ezra and ever since. Some of the Jewish are part Persian,  Polish , Russian, and yes even German. No one is a purebred anymore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since when has Palestine been part or Arabia peninsular. This makes any arab muslim and INVADER and an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT. The Jews are the LEGAL OWNERS of Palestine under Customary International Law if you bother to check, the arab muslims are illegal aliens squatting on Jewish land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well the 700,000 Pals and their kids and grandkids are are legal citizens of pals if the Zionist like it or not, very few of them are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So does this make me a Palestinian then because my father once walked the streets of Jerusalem before I was born. ( he served in the British army and was stationed in the M.E. for a short time ) Or will you invoke the Palestinian version of right of return and make any one who was not born in Palestine before the Zionist immigration to Palestine in 1850 an illegal immigrant. No children or grandchildren just the men born before 1850. ( PLO charter )
> 
> I believe the Palestinians are forging copies of the title deeds to claim land ownership, and then finding out that the archives contain copies of the true land owners
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The land registries don't lie.  Christians and Muslims owned 90% of the land of Palestine as per the British Survey of Palestine in 1946:
Click to expand...




 That is not the land registry at all it is just how much land was worked by the different people. table on shows how much land was legally owned and it was 0.8% arab muslims and 4.8% Jewish.

 Do you even know were the land register is situated and how much it costs to search the title deed for one parcel of land ?


----------



## Coyote

aris2chat said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to remove an entire ethnic group from a land they have occupied for generations - then that is ethnic cleansing and that is what you claim to support.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel gave up the Gaza strip.  I'm saying they should take it back.  Why shouldn't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine, including Gaza,  was inhabited by Muslims and Christians before the Jews invaded from Europe.  They gave back nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Jews invaded Palestine then monti, or are you talking about the legal land owners coming and evicting the squatters from their land. At no time was any part of Palestine bequeathed to the arab muslims by its legal owners, so were was this fictional land ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right, I don't have a deed or any proof, but this is "my" land.  What a crock!  Like I said above, it's akin to a Native American demanding you give up your home because that was his families lands generations ago.
> 
> These people are unrealistic and ridiculous expectations, and I wonder what they think the region would be like then?  Do they actually think these people are going to be "peaceful" suddenly?  Good grief!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In the camps in beirut, palestinians were handed old keys and the publishing house were printing fake deed for those keys.
Click to expand...


There is fraud on the other side as well.

Israeli court orders settlers to return land to Palestinian owners - Diplomacy Defense Israel News Haaretz


----------



## Kondor3

Penelope said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then ok lets deal. We will take the Palestinians  and the Zionist and Jews  living in the US move to Israel , to make room for the Pals here , and the Israel lobby in the US is abolished (no reason for them to be here since there are no Jews living here), and so is any aid going to Israel , as now we need to use it to help the Palestinians get homes and education.
> 
> Sound good?
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Move the Palestinians to Jordan and/or Lebanon and/or Egypt and/or some other place(s) in that region or in coastal Africa, once the UN negotiates all those arrangements.
> 
> No need (or desire) to do any such thing on our own shores.
> 
> The Jews (Israelis) are the winners.
> 
> Losers do not dictate terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No don't think so, its a give and take. No deal with me then. You live in the US as I do, but your unwilling to relocate the Pals here.
> 
> You can't speak for another nation , only as a citizen of the US and what you'd accept.
Click to expand...

Oh, make no mistake, I am under no illusion that I am speaking for any other nation or any other people.

And, I understand that you don't think so (you don't think that relocation of the Palestinians is the answer).

My point is that there is no other choice, in the long run.

I serve-up a way to cut the Gordian Knot, so that Israel is left intact and strong, and so that the Palestinians get something out of it as well, and a new lease on life, elsewhere.

The Palestinians can relocate, and build new lives, or they can slowly (or quickly) die in-place.

Why subject yourselves (the Palestinian side) to such a miserable fate?

You are hanging onto a few postage-stamp -sized scraps of land by the skin of your teeth.

All it will take is a fart in the wind to blow you away.

Plead with the UN and neighboring countries to take you in, to help you to relocate, and to help you to establish the basis for new and happier and peaceful lives.

Or stubbornly and stupidly stay in-place and die.

Either outcome is fine, to much of the rest of the world.

There is no Arab (nor UN) cavalry coming over the hill this time to rescue you.

You are on your own now, and you are dying (as a failed nation-state wannabe, and, to a lesser extent, as individuals).

Snap out of it, regain your sanity, admit you've lost, run up the white flag, and ask for help in getting a fresh start, elsewhere.

You'll be surprised at how much of the world will be willing to step up to the plate to help you do just that.

Or be stupid, and continue to die - as a nation-state and as individuals - for no good purpose, and to no useful end.

Palestinian Mentality - God help those infected with it.

Patient: "_Hi, I'm Walid, and I'm a recovering Palestinian Mentality victim._"

Group: "_Hi, Walid, and welcome!_"


----------



## montelatici

Hossfly said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PBel must be losing his marbles.  Thread title says "The World Is Sick Of Israel Attrocities."  And yet in his post, the links only show that the Palestinians are pissed with Israel.  Oh well, want another VICTORY, keep them rocket missiles comin' boys.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *World grows tired of Israel crying wolf – When it's the wolf ...*
> www.veteranstoday.com/.../*world*-grows-*tired-of-israel*-crying-wolf-whe...
> 
> Cached
> Similar
> Feb 27, 2014 - _*World*_ grows _*tired of Israel*_ crying wolf – When it's the wolf ... _*Crimes*_ Against Humanity in _*Israel*_ not only carries no social stigma,but is the ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We veterans get irked when you and your tribe quote Veterans Today, a site of anti-American communistic deadbeats who are no better than terrorist supporters.
Click to expand...


Hey pansy ass, you are no veteran.  You are just a little Nazi wannabe.

This is a veteran.

"Gordon Duff is a Marine combat veteran of the Vietnam War. He is a disabled veteran and has worked on veterans and POW issues for decades. 

Gordon Duff is an accredited diplomat and is generally accepted as one of the top global intelligence specialists. He manages the world's largest private intelligence organization and regularly consults with governments challenged by security issues. 

Gordon Duff has traveled extensively, is published around the world and is a regular guest on TV and radio in more than "several" countries. 

Gordon Duff is a trained chef, wine enthusiast, avid motorcyclist and gunsmith specializing in historical weapons and restoration. 

Business experience and interests are in energy and defense technology."


----------



## montelatici

Kondor3 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then ok lets deal. We will take the Palestinians  and the Zionist and Jews  living in the US move to Israel , to make room for the Pals here , and the Israel lobby in the US is abolished (no reason for them to be here since there are no Jews living here), and so is any aid going to Israel , as now we need to use it to help the Palestinians get homes and education.
> 
> Sound good?
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Move the Palestinians to Jordan and/or Lebanon and/or Egypt and/or some other place(s) in that region or in coastal Africa, once the UN negotiates all those arrangements.
> 
> No need (or desire) to do any such thing on our own shores.
> 
> The Jews (Israelis) are the winners.
> 
> Losers do not dictate terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No don't think so, its a give and take. No deal with me then. You live in the US as I do, but your unwilling to relocate the Pals here.
> 
> You can't speak for another nation , only as a citizen of the US and what you'd accept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, make no mistake, I am under no illusion that I am speaking for any other nation or any other people.
> 
> And, I understand that you don't think so (you don't think that relocation of the Palestinians is the answer).
> 
> My point is that there is no other choice, in the long run.
> 
> I serve-up a way to cut the Gordian Knot, so that Israel is left intact and strong, and so that the Palestinians get something out of it as well, and a new lease on life, elsewhere.
> 
> The Palestinians can relocate, and build new lives, or they can slowly (or quickly) die in-place.
> 
> Why subject yourselves (the Palestinian side) to such a miserable fate?
> 
> You are hanging onto a few postage-stamp -sized scraps of land by the skin of your teeth.
> 
> All it will take is a fart in the wind to blow you away.
> 
> Plead with the UN and neighboring countries to take you in, to help you to relocate, and to help you to establish the basis for new and happier and peaceful lives.
> 
> Or stubbornly and stupidly stay in-place and die.
> 
> Either outcome is fine, to much of the rest of the world.
> 
> There is no Arab (nor UN) cavalry coming over the hill this time to rescue you.
> 
> You are on your own now, and you are dying (as a failed nation-state wannabe, and, to a lesser extent, as individuals).
> 
> Snap out of it, regain your sanity, admit you've lost, run up the white flag, and ask for help in getting a fresh start, elsewhere.
> 
> You'll be surprised at how much of the world will be willing to step up to the plate to help you do just that.
> 
> Or be stupid, and continue to die - as a nation-state and as individuals - for no good purpose, and to no useful end.
> 
> Palestinian Mentality - God help those infected with it.
Click to expand...


Palestinians only need to be patient, demographics will rule the day.


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to remove an entire ethnic group from a land they have occupied for generations - then that is ethnic cleansing and that is what you claim to support.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel gave up the Gaza strip.  I'm saying they should take it back.  Why shouldn't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine, including Gaza,  was inhabited by Muslims and Christians before the Jews invaded from Europe.  They gave back nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Jews invaded Palestine then monti, or are you talking about the legal land owners coming and evicting the squatters from their land. At no time was any part of Palestine bequeathed to the arab muslims by its legal owners, so were was this fictional land ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There were no "squatters".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were never land owners and were just travelling nomadic farm workers in the main. They acted just like the muslims of old and took what land they wanted until they had worn it out and then discarded it and moved on. 3 Times they stole Hebron from the Jews and 3 times they destroyed the land through lack of intelligence and laziness.
> 
> Now produce the treaty by the ottomans or LoN that gives the land of Palestine to the arab muslims..............
Click to expand...


For all practical purposes they were landowners and many of them were indiginous to the area.  As you may recall, even though there was an indiginous Jewish population in Palestine prior to immigration, there was a larger Arab population.

Land has shifted back and forth over the centuries if you have to attempt to go back that far it's meaningless.  If people have been living on land for generations - it is theirs for all effective purposes.


----------



## Kondor3

Coyote said:


> ...Land has shifted back and forth over the centuries...


Indeed. Just as it has since 1948.



> ...If people have been living on land for generations - it is theirs for all effective purposes.


Indeed. Just ask the 2nd and 3rd and 4th -generation Israelis now in possession of that land.


----------



## montelatici

There were a handful of Jews in Palestine before 1850 and several hundred thousand Christians and Muslims.


----------



## Coyote

Kondor3 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Land has shifted back and forth over the centuries...
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. Just as it has since 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...If people have been living on land for generations - it is theirs for all effective purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed. Just ask the 2nd and 3rd and 4th -generation Israelis now in possession of that land.
Click to expand...


Agree - when you get to that point, the original owners are dead and there is no sense in displacing people.  But the land theft that occurred in 1967 and later - the original people are still alive, and return of the land or compensation should be addressed as well as a complete stop to more taking of land through "settlements".


----------



## montelatici

Kondor3 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Land has shifted back and forth over the centuries...
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. Just as it has since 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...If people have been living on land for generations - it is theirs for all effective purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed. Just ask the 2nd and 3rd and 4th -generation Israelis now in possession of that land.
Click to expand...


The problem is, there are more non-Jews than Jews among the people the Jews have control over. That almost never works out well for the minority in the long run.


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> When you control air space, territorial sea and land border and occasionally lob bombs into the place murdering hundreds of children, ...


Why not "tens of thousands of "children"!"?


----------



## Coyote

montelatici said:


> There were a handful of Jews in Palestine before 1850 and several hundred thousand Christians and Muslims.



It may have been small - I think the Ottoman census around then placed it around 15,000 but it was none the less a significant enough population not to be counted as "zero".


----------



## Penelope

TBH, The fascist Zionist are the problem in the world today.  Middle America, we aren't even taking care of the America we have as we are too invested in the ME for Israel and SA and our neocons who love war.

I for one do not want 1 cent of my tax dollars going to Israel anymore.


----------



## Penelope

ChrisL said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's just crazy, IMO.  CRAAAAZZZZZYYYYY.
Click to expand...


Those are just cartoons you know.


----------



## aris2chat

The number of christians  in Israel is growing.  Christians in Jerusalem move from over crowded neighborhoods to larger newer homes outside of the walled city.

Muslim attacks against Christians on the rise in West Bank - World Tribune World Tribune


----------



## aris2chat

Coyote said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel gave up the Gaza strip.  I'm saying they should take it back.  Why shouldn't they?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine, including Gaza,  was inhabited by Muslims and Christians before the Jews invaded from Europe.  They gave back nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Jews invaded Palestine then monti, or are you talking about the legal land owners coming and evicting the squatters from their land. At no time was any part of Palestine bequeathed to the arab muslims by its legal owners, so were was this fictional land ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right, I don't have a deed or any proof, but this is "my" land.  What a crock!  Like I said above, it's akin to a Native American demanding you give up your home because that was his families lands generations ago.
> 
> These people are unrealistic and ridiculous expectations, and I wonder what they think the region would be like then?  Do they actually think these people are going to be "peaceful" suddenly?  Good grief!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In the camps in beirut, palestinians were handed old keys and the publishing house were printing fake deed for those keys.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is fraud on the other side as well.
> 
> Israeli court orders settlers to return land to Palestinian owners - Diplomacy Defense Israel News Haaretz
Click to expand...


Israel courts have favored palestinians on land issues in the WB, for the most part.
Like in the US, courts are not there to green light politicians but to bring balance to bills being passed.
Israel s High Court rules in favor of Palestinians i24news - See beyond


----------



## aris2chat

montelatici said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PBel must be losing his marbles.  Thread title says "The World Is Sick Of Israel Attrocities."  And yet in his post, the links only show that the Palestinians are pissed with Israel.  Oh well, want another VICTORY, keep them rocket missiles comin' boys.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *World grows tired of Israel crying wolf – When it's the wolf ...*
> www.veteranstoday.com/.../*world*-grows-*tired-of-israel*-crying-wolf-whe...
> 
> Cached
> Similar
> Feb 27, 2014 - _*World*_ grows _*tired of Israel*_ crying wolf – When it's the wolf ... _*Crimes*_ Against Humanity in _*Israel*_ not only carries no social stigma,but is the ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We veterans get irked when you and your tribe quote Veterans Today, a site of anti-American communistic deadbeats who are no better than terrorist supporters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey pansy ass, you are no veteran.  You are just a little Nazi wannabe.
> 
> This is a veteran.
> 
> "Gordon Duff is a Marine combat veteran of the Vietnam War. He is a disabled veteran and has worked on veterans and POW issues for decades.
> 
> Gordon Duff is an accredited diplomat and is generally accepted as one of the top global intelligence specialists. He manages the world's largest private intelligence organization and regularly consults with governments challenged by security issues.
> 
> Gordon Duff has traveled extensively, is published around the world and is a regular guest on TV and radio in more than "several" countries.
> 
> Gordon Duff is a trained chef, wine enthusiast, avid motorcyclist and gunsmith specializing in historical weapons and restoration.
> 
> Business experience and interests are in energy and defense technology."
Click to expand...

 
Copied right off the VT web site.  You do realize that most of what they print is CT nonsense.  Duff is also frequently quoted by Press TV Iran.


----------



## ChrisL

Kondor3 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then ok lets deal. We will take the Palestinians  and the Zionist and Jews  living in the US move to Israel , to make room for the Pals here , and the Israel lobby in the US is abolished (no reason for them to be here since there are no Jews living here), and so is any aid going to Israel , as now we need to use it to help the Palestinians get homes and education.
> 
> Sound good?
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Move the Palestinians to Jordan and/or Lebanon and/or Egypt and/or some other place(s) in that region or in coastal Africa, once the UN negotiates all those arrangements.
> 
> No need (or desire) to do any such thing on our own shores.
> 
> The Jews (Israelis) are the winners.
> 
> Losers do not dictate terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No don't think so, its a give and take. No deal with me then. You live in the US as I do, but your unwilling to relocate the Pals here.
> 
> You can't speak for another nation , only as a citizen of the US and what you'd accept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, make no mistake, I am under no illusion that I am speaking for any other nation or any other people.
> 
> And, I understand that you don't think so (you don't think that relocation of the Palestinians is the answer).
> 
> My point is that there is no other choice, in the long run.
> 
> I serve-up a way to cut the Gordian Knot, so that Israel is left intact and strong, and so that the Palestinians get something out of it as well, and a new lease on life, elsewhere.
> 
> The Palestinians can relocate, and build new lives, or they can slowly (or quickly) die in-place.
> 
> Why subject yourselves (the Palestinian side) to such a miserable fate?
> 
> You are hanging onto a few postage-stamp -sized scraps of land by the skin of your teeth.
> 
> All it will take is a fart in the wind to blow you away.
> 
> Plead with the UN and neighboring countries to take you in, to help you to relocate, and to help you to establish the basis for new and happier and peaceful lives.
> 
> Or stubbornly and stupidly stay in-place and die.
> 
> Either outcome is fine, to much of the rest of the world.
> 
> There is no Arab (nor UN) cavalry coming over the hill this time to rescue you.
> 
> You are on your own now, and you are dying (as a failed nation-state wannabe, and, to a lesser extent, as individuals).
> 
> Snap out of it, regain your sanity, admit you've lost, run up the white flag, and ask for help in getting a fresh start, elsewhere.
> 
> You'll be surprised at how much of the world will be willing to step up to the plate to help you do just that.
> 
> Or be stupid, and continue to die - as a nation-state and as individuals - for no good purpose, and to no useful end.
> 
> Palestinian Mentality - God help those infected with it.
> 
> Patient: "_Hi, I'm Walid, and I'm a recovering Palestinian Mentality victim._"
> 
> Group: "_Hi, Walid, and welcome!_"
Click to expand...


This is so true, but obviously they would be too ignorant to listen to any good advice.

Excellent post, BTW.  The best post I've seen on this topic yet!


----------



## Dogmaphobe

montelatici said:


> Hey pansy ass, you are no veteran.  You are just a little Nazi wannabe.
> 
> "




Perhaps, some day, you can have one of the older kids explain to you that the Nazis were the ones who hated the Jews just as do you  instead of defending them as does he.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel gave up the Gaza strip.  I'm saying they should take it back.  Why shouldn't they?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine, including Gaza,  was inhabited by Muslims and Christians before the Jews invaded from Europe.  They gave back nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Jews invaded Palestine then monti, or are you talking about the legal land owners coming and evicting the squatters from their land. At no time was any part of Palestine bequeathed to the arab muslims by its legal owners, so were was this fictional land ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right, I don't have a deed or any proof, but this is "my" land.  What a crock!  Like I said above, it's akin to a Native American demanding you give up your home because that was his families lands generations ago.
> 
> These people are unrealistic and ridiculous expectations, and I wonder what they think the region would be like then?  Do they actually think these people are going to be "peaceful" suddenly?  Good grief!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In the camps in beirut, palestinians were handed old keys and the publishing house were printing fake deed for those keys.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is fraud on the other side as well.
> 
> Israeli court orders settlers to return land to Palestinian owners - Diplomacy Defense Israel News Haaretz
Click to expand...




 Can you see the difference between the two sides in your post, how Israel ALWAYS acts in the correct manner and finds for the Palestinians when the law of Israel is on their side. When was the last time the Palestinians did a similar thing ?


----------



## Kondor3

Coyote said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Land has shifted back and forth over the centuries...
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. Just as it has since 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...If people have been living on land for generations - it is theirs for all effective purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed. Just ask the 2nd and 3rd and 4th -generation Israelis now in possession of that land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree - when you get to that point, the original owners are dead and there is no sense in displacing people.  But the land theft that occurred in 1967 and later - the original people are still alive, and return of the land or compensation should be addressed as well as a complete stop to more taking of land through "settlements".
Click to expand...

Right of Return will no longer work, in connection with 1948-1949.

Return to the 1967 borders will no longer work, in connection with Israeli security and safety.

Compensation has marvelous possibilities.

But there is no longer enough land with which to make-up a sustainable nation-state.

That leaves population transfer - relocation - as the only practical outcome.

I know that this does not sit well, but the Losing Side is just going to have to suck it up, eventually, and move on.

If they did so voluntarily and with the blessing and large-scale assistance of the outside world, that would be best.

But, sooner or later, it's going to happen.

The Palestinians might as well leverage that as best they can, while they still can.

I sense time running out for the Palestinians to get anything whatsoever.


----------



## Kondor3

Penelope said:


> TBH, The fascist Zionist are the problem in the world today.  Middle America, we aren't even taking care of the America we have as we are too invested in the ME for Israel and SA and our neocons who love war.
> 
> I for one do not want 1 cent of my tax dollars going to Israel anymore.


Meanwhile, the majority of voting taxpayers who DO support Israel, thank you for your tax dollars, tasked for that purpose.


----------



## Coyote

aris2chat said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine, including Gaza,  was inhabited by Muslims and Christians before the Jews invaded from Europe.  They gave back nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Jews invaded Palestine then monti, or are you talking about the legal land owners coming and evicting the squatters from their land. At no time was any part of Palestine bequeathed to the arab muslims by its legal owners, so were was this fictional land ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right, I don't have a deed or any proof, but this is "my" land.  What a crock!  Like I said above, it's akin to a Native American demanding you give up your home because that was his families lands generations ago.
> 
> These people are unrealistic and ridiculous expectations, and I wonder what they think the region would be like then?  Do they actually think these people are going to be "peaceful" suddenly?  Good grief!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In the camps in beirut, palestinians were handed old keys and the publishing house were printing fake deed for those keys.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is fraud on the other side as well.
> 
> Israeli court orders settlers to return land to Palestinian owners - Diplomacy Defense Israel News Haaretz
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel courts have favored palestinians on land issues in the WB, for the most part.
> Like in the US, courts are not there to green light politicians but to bring balance to bills being passed.
> Israel s High Court rules in favor of Palestinians i24news - See beyond
Click to expand...


I think the Israeli High Court does a decent job and keeps the government in check.

Edited to add - finished reading the article, that's a good article - it's heartening to read.  Thanks for posting it!


----------



## Coyote

Kondor3 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Land has shifted back and forth over the centuries...
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. Just as it has since 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...If people have been living on land for generations - it is theirs for all effective purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed. Just ask the 2nd and 3rd and 4th -generation Israelis now in possession of that land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree - when you get to that point, the original owners are dead and there is no sense in displacing people.  But the land theft that occurred in 1967 and later - the original people are still alive, and return of the land or compensation should be addressed as well as a complete stop to more taking of land through "settlements".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right of Return will no longer work, in connection with 1948-1949.
> 
> Return to the 1967 borders will no longer work, in connection with Israeli security and safety.
> 
> Compensation has marvelous possibilities.
> 
> *But there is no longer enough land with which to make-up a sustainable nation-state.*
> 
> That leaves population transfer - relocation - as the only practical outcome.
> 
> I know that this does not sit well, but the Losing Side is just going to have to suck it up, eventually, and move on.
> 
> If they did so voluntarily and with the blessing and large-scale assistance of the outside world, that would be best.
> 
> But, sooner or later, it's going to happen.
> 
> The Palestinians might as well leverage that as best they can, while they still can.
> 
> I sense time running out for the Palestinians to get anything whatsoever.
Click to expand...


Yes there is.

Start negotiations at the 1967 borders and negotiate landswaps.

Israel needs to give up some things too.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then ok lets deal. We will take the Palestinians  and the Zionist and Jews  living in the US move to Israel , to make room for the Pals here , and the Israel lobby in the US is abolished (no reason for them to be here since there are no Jews living here), and so is any aid going to Israel , as now we need to use it to help the Palestinians get homes and education.
> 
> Sound good?
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Move the Palestinians to Jordan and/or Lebanon and/or Egypt and/or some other place(s) in that region or in coastal Africa, once the UN negotiates all those arrangements.
> 
> No need (or desire) to do any such thing on our own shores.
> 
> The Jews (Israelis) are the winners.
> 
> Losers do not dictate terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No don't think so, its a give and take. No deal with me then. You live in the US as I do, but your unwilling to relocate the Pals here.
> 
> You can't speak for another nation , only as a citizen of the US and what you'd accept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, make no mistake, I am under no illusion that I am speaking for any other nation or any other people.
> 
> And, I understand that you don't think so (you don't think that relocation of the Palestinians is the answer).
> 
> My point is that there is no other choice, in the long run.
> 
> I serve-up a way to cut the Gordian Knot, so that Israel is left intact and strong, and so that the Palestinians get something out of it as well, and a new lease on life, elsewhere.
> 
> The Palestinians can relocate, and build new lives, or they can slowly (or quickly) die in-place.
> 
> Why subject yourselves (the Palestinian side) to such a miserable fate?
> 
> You are hanging onto a few postage-stamp -sized scraps of land by the skin of your teeth.
> 
> All it will take is a fart in the wind to blow you away.
> 
> Plead with the UN and neighboring countries to take you in, to help you to relocate, and to help you to establish the basis for new and happier and peaceful lives.
> 
> Or stubbornly and stupidly stay in-place and die.
> 
> Either outcome is fine, to much of the rest of the world.
> 
> There is no Arab (nor UN) cavalry coming over the hill this time to rescue you.
> 
> You are on your own now, and you are dying (as a failed nation-state wannabe, and, to a lesser extent, as individuals).
> 
> Snap out of it, regain your sanity, admit you've lost, run up the white flag, and ask for help in getting a fresh start, elsewhere.
> 
> You'll be surprised at how much of the world will be willing to step up to the plate to help you do just that.
> 
> Or be stupid, and continue to die - as a nation-state and as individuals - for no good purpose, and to no useful end.
> 
> Palestinian Mentality - God help those infected with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinians only need to be patient, demographics will rule the day.
Click to expand...





 Not in this case as they cant function as a collective, something to do with the Palestinian mentality. they would spend more time fighting each other than they would trying to kill the Jews and lose that war like they lost all the others. No support from their mentors as they will be fighting their own wars against the Palestinian IS or what ever it will call itself then.


----------



## montelatici

Yeah right.

*"Israeli Supreme Court upholds law allowing housing discrimination against Palestinians"*

"Yesterday, Israel’s Supreme Court dismissed a petition by Adalah: The Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel effectually facilitating the Judaization of more Palestinian owned land inside Israel. According to Adalah, the court’s decision holding up Israel’s Admissions Committees Law, “entrenches racial segregation; 434 small communities in Israel, or 43% of all residential areas, will be allowed to close their doors to Palestinian Arab citizens of the state.” Much of the land in question was originally confiscated from Palestinian refugees, and the court’s decision will result in the continued concentration and containment of the Palestinian population in Israel. -"

See more at: Israeli Supreme Court upholds law allowing housing discrimination against Palestinians 8211 Mondoweiss


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine, including Gaza,  was inhabited by Muslims and Christians before the Jews invaded from Europe.  They gave back nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Jews invaded Palestine then monti, or are you talking about the legal land owners coming and evicting the squatters from their land. At no time was any part of Palestine bequeathed to the arab muslims by its legal owners, so were was this fictional land ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right, I don't have a deed or any proof, but this is "my" land.  What a crock!  Like I said above, it's akin to a Native American demanding you give up your home because that was his families lands generations ago.
> 
> These people are unrealistic and ridiculous expectations, and I wonder what they think the region would be like then?  Do they actually think these people are going to be "peaceful" suddenly?  Good grief!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In the camps in beirut, palestinians were handed old keys and the publishing house were printing fake deed for those keys.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is fraud on the other side as well.
> 
> Israeli court orders settlers to return land to Palestinian owners - Diplomacy Defense Israel News Haaretz
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you see the difference between the two sides in your post,* how Israel ALWAYS acts *in the correct manner and finds for the Palestinians when the law of Israel is on their side. When was the last time the Palestinians did a similar thing ?
Click to expand...


They don't "always".  The courts are pretty good.  When it goes through the courts.  But when it falls in military jurisdiction - not so much OR when land is confiscated for state purposes.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel gave up the Gaza strip.  I'm saying they should take it back.  Why shouldn't they?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine, including Gaza,  was inhabited by Muslims and Christians before the Jews invaded from Europe.  They gave back nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Jews invaded Palestine then monti, or are you talking about the legal land owners coming and evicting the squatters from their land. At no time was any part of Palestine bequeathed to the arab muslims by its legal owners, so were was this fictional land ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There were no "squatters".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were never land owners and were just travelling nomadic farm workers in the main. They acted just like the muslims of old and took what land they wanted until they had worn it out and then discarded it and moved on. 3 Times they stole Hebron from the Jews and 3 times they destroyed the land through lack of intelligence and laziness.
> 
> Now produce the treaty by the ottomans or LoN that gives the land of Palestine to the arab muslims..............
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For all practical purposes they were landowners and many of them were indiginous to the area.  As you may recall, even though there was an indiginous Jewish population in Palestine prior to immigration, there was a larger Arab population.
> 
> Land has shifted back and forth over the centuries if you have to attempt to go back that far it's meaningless.  If people have been living on land for generations - it is theirs for all effective purposes.
Click to expand...




 No they refused to become land owners under the Ottomans as it meant paying taxes and being conscripted into the army. So they just ignored the requests and carried on being tenants or nomadic farm workers.

Then because the Jews had been living on the land for 4,500 years by your criteria they have a more valid claim than the arab muslims who can only go back 1400 years with gaps when they were driven out by invaders. Now back to International law that you don't like when it comes down in Israel's favour the LEGAL LAND OWNERS GAVE THE LAND TO THE JEWS BACK IN 1924 THEY DID NOT GIVE ANY TO THE ARAB MUSLIMS APART FROM JORDAN, SYRIA AND IRAQ.


----------



## Kondor3

Coyote said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Land has shifted back and forth over the centuries...
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. Just as it has since 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...If people have been living on land for generations - it is theirs for all effective purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed. Just ask the 2nd and 3rd and 4th -generation Israelis now in possession of that land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree - when you get to that point, the original owners are dead and there is no sense in displacing people.  But the land theft that occurred in 1967 and later - the original people are still alive, and return of the land or compensation should be addressed as well as a complete stop to more taking of land through "settlements".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right of Return will no longer work, in connection with 1948-1949.
> 
> Return to the 1967 borders will no longer work, in connection with Israeli security and safety.
> 
> Compensation has marvelous possibilities.
> 
> *But there is no longer enough land with which to make-up a sustainable nation-state.*
> 
> That leaves population transfer - relocation - as the only practical outcome.
> 
> I know that this does not sit well, but the Losing Side is just going to have to suck it up, eventually, and move on.
> 
> If they did so voluntarily and with the blessing and large-scale assistance of the outside world, that would be best.
> 
> But, sooner or later, it's going to happen.
> 
> The Palestinians might as well leverage that as best they can, while they still can.
> 
> I sense time running out for the Palestinians to get anything whatsoever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes there is.
> 
> Start negotiations at the 1967 borders and negotiate landswaps.
> 
> Israel needs to give up some things too.
Click to expand...

Israel is the winner, Coyote.

Losers do not dictate terms.

The West Bank no longer exists as a coherent and contiguous Palestinian-controlled land mass.

Gaza can be overrun in a week, should the Isrealis put their mind to it.

They no longer have any motive to make concessions, and they've been burned on land-for-peace deals multiple times in the past.

Confidence is reasonably high that the time for such talk is behind us now.

And, if that turns out to be true, then the Losing Side is going to be sent packing, one way or another.

Why not get ahead of that trend and bend it to your (their) people's advantage?

But they won't.


----------



## aris2chat

Coyote said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Land has shifted back and forth over the centuries...
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. Just as it has since 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...If people have been living on land for generations - it is theirs for all effective purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed. Just ask the 2nd and 3rd and 4th -generation Israelis now in possession of that land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree - when you get to that point, the original owners are dead and there is no sense in displacing people.  But the land theft that occurred in 1967 and later - the original people are still alive, and return of the land or compensation should be addressed as well as a complete stop to more taking of land through "settlements".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right of Return will no longer work, in connection with 1948-1949.
> 
> Return to the 1967 borders will no longer work, in connection with Israeli security and safety.
> 
> Compensation has marvelous possibilities.
> 
> *But there is no longer enough land with which to make-up a sustainable nation-state.*
> 
> That leaves population transfer - relocation - as the only practical outcome.
> 
> I know that this does not sit well, but the Losing Side is just going to have to suck it up, eventually, and move on.
> 
> If they did so voluntarily and with the blessing and large-scale assistance of the outside world, that would be best.
> 
> But, sooner or later, it's going to happen.
> 
> The Palestinians might as well leverage that as best they can, while they still can.
> 
> I sense time running out for the Palestinians to get anything whatsoever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes there is.
> 
> Start negotiations at the 1967 borders and negotiate landswaps.
> 
> Israel needs to give up some things too.
Click to expand...


Israel has made offers of land. The one to make the most sense was land east of gaza which would reduce the over crowding.  Egypt also offered land in the sinai as part of a total peace deal.
Land considered NW of the WB was rejected by the arab population living there.  They did not want to be part of a palestinian state.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> There were a handful of Jews in Palestine before 1850 and several hundred thousand Christians and Muslims.





 According to ISLAMONAZI sources, while unbiased sources say that the arab muslims were thin on the ground and most of the larger towns were majority Jewish. Just like Jerusalem was prior to the land thefts of 1948 and 1949 by the Palestinians.


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine, including Gaza,  was inhabited by Muslims and Christians before the Jews invaded from Europe.  They gave back nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Jews invaded Palestine then monti, or are you talking about the legal land owners coming and evicting the squatters from their land. At no time was any part of Palestine bequeathed to the arab muslims by its legal owners, so were was this fictional land ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There were no "squatters".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were never land owners and were just travelling nomadic farm workers in the main. They acted just like the muslims of old and took what land they wanted until they had worn it out and then discarded it and moved on. 3 Times they stole Hebron from the Jews and 3 times they destroyed the land through lack of intelligence and laziness.
> 
> Now produce the treaty by the ottomans or LoN that gives the land of Palestine to the arab muslims..............
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For all practical purposes they were landowners and many of them were indiginous to the area.  As you may recall, even though there was an indiginous Jewish population in Palestine prior to immigration, there was a larger Arab population.
> 
> Land has shifted back and forth over the centuries if you have to attempt to go back that far it's meaningless.  If people have been living on land for generations - it is theirs for all effective purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No they refused to become land owners under the Ottomans as it meant paying taxes and being conscripted into the army. So they just ignored the requests and carried on being tenants or nomadic farm workers.
> 
> Then because the Jews had been living on the land for 4,500 years by your criteria they have a more valid claim than the arab muslims who can only go back 1400 years with gaps when they were driven out by invaders. Now back to International law that you don't like when it comes down in Israel's favour the LEGAL LAND OWNERS GAVE THE LAND TO THE JEWS BACK IN 1924 THEY DID NOT GIVE ANY TO THE ARAB MUSLIMS APART FROM JORDAN, SYRIA AND IRAQ.
Click to expand...


*AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE, during the period 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921 *​

*"Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews."*

 - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine, including Gaza,  was inhabited by Muslims and Christians before the Jews invaded from Europe.  They gave back nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Jews invaded Palestine then monti, or are you talking about the legal land owners coming and evicting the squatters from their land. At no time was any part of Palestine bequeathed to the arab muslims by its legal owners, so were was this fictional land ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There were no "squatters".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were never land owners and were just travelling nomadic farm workers in the main. They acted just like the muslims of old and took what land they wanted until they had worn it out and then discarded it and moved on. 3 Times they stole Hebron from the Jews and 3 times they destroyed the land through lack of intelligence and laziness.
> 
> Now produce the treaty by the ottomans or LoN that gives the land of Palestine to the arab muslims..............
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For all practical purposes they were landowners and many of them were indiginous to the area.  As you may recall, even though there was an indiginous Jewish population in Palestine prior to immigration, there was a larger Arab population.
> 
> Land has shifted back and forth over the centuries if you have to attempt to go back that far it's meaningless.  If people have been living on land for generations - it is theirs for all effective purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No they refused to become land owners under the Ottomans as it meant paying taxes and being conscripted into the army. So they just ignored the requests and carried on being tenants or nomadic farm workers.
> 
> *Then because the Jews had been living on the land for 4,500 years by your criteria they have a more valid claim* than the arab muslims who can only go back 1400 years with gaps when they were driven out by invaders. Now back to International law that you don't like when it comes down in Israel's favour the LEGAL LAND OWNERS GAVE THE LAND TO THE JEWS BACK IN 1924 THEY DID NOT GIVE ANY TO THE ARAB MUSLIMS APART FROM JORDAN, SYRIA AND IRAQ.
Click to expand...


By my criteria?

A handful of jews....somewhere between 10,000 and 15,000.  Attempting to go back thousands of years is blatently ridiculous - land and property rights varied considerably.  For example - in some regions all land belonged to a ruler, and the people were tenants.  Do you see how silly this is?

I support International Law.  It states that West Bank and Gaza are occupied territories and it recognizes Israel's right to exist.  Sounds good enough.


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were a handful of Jews in Palestine before 1850 and several hundred thousand Christians and Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to ISLAMONAZI sources, while unbiased sources say that the arab muslims were thin on the ground and most of the larger towns were majority Jewish. Just like Jerusalem was prior to the land thefts of 1948 and 1949 by the Palestinians.
Click to expand...


What unbiased sources?


----------



## montelatici

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> What Jews invaded Palestine then monti, or are you talking about the legal land owners coming and evicting the squatters from their land. At no time was any part of Palestine bequeathed to the arab muslims by its legal owners, so were was this fictional land ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were no "squatters".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were a handful of Jews in Palestine before 1850 and several hundred thousand Christians and Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to ISLAMONAZI sources, while unbiased sources say that the arab muslims were thin on the ground and most of the larger towns were majority Jewish. Just like Jerusalem was prior to the land thefts of 1948 and 1949 by the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were never land owners and were just travelling nomadic farm workers in the main. They acted just like the muslims of old and took what land they wanted until they had worn it out and then discarded it and moved on. 3 Times they stole Hebron from the Jews and 3 times they destroyed the land through lack of intelligence and laziness.
> 
> Now produce the treaty by the ottomans or LoN that gives the land of Palestine to the arab muslims..............
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For all practical purposes they were landowners and many of them were indiginous to the area.  As you may recall, even though there was an indiginous Jewish population in Palestine prior to immigration, there was a larger Arab population.
> 
> Land has shifted back and forth over the centuries if you have to attempt to go back that far it's meaningless.  If people have been living on land for generations - it is theirs for all effective purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No they refused to become land owners under the Ottomans as it meant paying taxes and being conscripted into the army. So they just ignored the requests and carried on being tenants or nomadic farm workers.
> 
> Then because the Jews had been living on the land for 4,500 years by your criteria they have a more valid claim than the arab muslims who can only go back 1400 years with gaps when they were driven out by invaders. Now back to International law that you don't like when it comes down in Israel's favour the LEGAL LAND OWNERS GAVE THE LAND TO THE JEWS BACK IN 1924 THEY DID NOT GIVE ANY TO THE ARAB MUSLIMS APART FROM JORDAN, SYRIA AND IRAQ.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE, during the period 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921 *​
> 
> *"Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews."*
> 
> - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
Click to expand...


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> What Jews invaded Palestine then monti, or are you talking about the legal land owners coming and evicting the squatters from their land. At no time was any part of Palestine bequeathed to the arab muslims by its legal owners, so were was this fictional land ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were no "squatters".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were never land owners and were just travelling nomadic farm workers in the main. They acted just like the muslims of old and took what land they wanted until they had worn it out and then discarded it and moved on. 3 Times they stole Hebron from the Jews and 3 times they destroyed the land through lack of intelligence and laziness.
> 
> Now produce the treaty by the ottomans or LoN that gives the land of Palestine to the arab muslims..............
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For all practical purposes they were landowners and many of them were indiginous to the area.  As you may recall, even though there was an indiginous Jewish population in Palestine prior to immigration, there was a larger Arab population.
> 
> Land has shifted back and forth over the centuries if you have to attempt to go back that far it's meaningless.  If people have been living on land for generations - it is theirs for all effective purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No they refused to become land owners under the Ottomans as it meant paying taxes and being conscripted into the army. So they just ignored the requests and carried on being tenants or nomadic farm workers.
> 
> *Then because the Jews had been living on the land for 4,500 years by your criteria they have a more valid claim* than the arab muslims who can only go back 1400 years with gaps when they were driven out by invaders. Now back to International law that you don't like when it comes down in Israel's favour the LEGAL LAND OWNERS GAVE THE LAND TO THE JEWS BACK IN 1924 THEY DID NOT GIVE ANY TO THE ARAB MUSLIMS APART FROM JORDAN, SYRIA AND IRAQ.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By my criteria?
> 
> A handful of jews....somewhere between 10,000 and 15,000.  Attempting to go back thousands of years is blatently ridiculous - land and property rights varied considerably.  For example - in some regions all land belonged to a ruler, and the people were tenants.  Do you see how silly this is?
> 
> I support International Law.  It states that West Bank and Gaza are occupied territories and it recognizes Israel's right to exist.  Sounds good enough.
Click to expand...


They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were a handful of Jews in Palestine before 1850 and several hundred thousand Christians and Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to ISLAMONAZI sources, *while unbiased sources say that the arab muslims were thin on the ground and most of the larger towns were majority Jewish. Just like Jerusalem was prior to the land thefts of 1948 and 1949 by the Palestinians.*
Click to expand...


MidEast Web - Population of Palestine

_*7. The city of Jerusalem has had a Jewish majority since about 1896 - *The city of Jerusalem itself there was a Jewish majority *since about 1896, but probably not before*. The district of Jerusalem (as opposed to the city) comprised a very wide area in Ottoman and British times, in which there was *a Muslim majority*. This included Jericho, Bethlehem and other towns.  Within the Jerusalem district, there was a subdistrict of Jerusalem that includes many of the immediate suburbs such as Eyn Karem, Beit Zeit etc. In that subdistrict, the Jews remained a minority , with only about 52,000 out of 132,000 persons in 1931 for example_​


----------



## montelatici

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were a handful of Jews in Palestine before 1850 and several hundred thousand Christians and Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to ISLAMONAZI sources, while unbiased sources say that the arab muslims were thin on the ground and most of the larger towns were majority Jewish. Just like Jerusalem was prior to the land thefts of 1948 and 1949 by the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What unbiased sources?
Click to expand...




*AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE, 

PALESTINE, during the period 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921. AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE. I.--THE CONDITION OF PALESTINE AFTER THE WAR *​​There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*_See_ Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.​
*The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. -*​*
 See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921 *​


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Land has shifted back and forth over the centuries...
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. Just as it has since 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...If people have been living on land for generations - it is theirs for all effective purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed. Just ask the 2nd and 3rd and 4th -generation Israelis now in possession of that land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree - when you get to that point, the original owners are dead and there is no sense in displacing people.  But the land theft that occurred in 1967 and later - the original people are still alive, and return of the land or compensation should be addressed as well as a complete stop to more taking of land through "settlements".
Click to expand...



 What about the land theft of 1948 and 1949 when Jews were murdered by arab muslims in gaza and the west bank because they were the majority land owners and occupants in many of the towns and cities. Does the right of return not apply to them also, don't they have the right to the land in the west bank taken from them by force.

 So will you join in the simplest solution to the Palestinian problem and do land swaps with the arab muslims  for every two dunums of stolen Jewish land the Palestinians give up one dunum of Palestine. Once all of Palestine has gone then the arab muslims can sell the remaining Jewish land to the thieves who are settled on it since 1948. That way everyone is happy and there is no more problems over who owns the land anymore. The arab muslims will always get the best of the deal as they will receive twice as much as they allegedly lost. ( the land stolen from the Jews between 1948 and 1967 amounts to an area 4 times the size of Jordan with less than 10% being in Palestine )


----------



## montelatici

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were a handful of Jews in Palestine before 1850 and several hundred thousand Christians and Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to ISLAMONAZI sources, *while unbiased sources say that the arab muslims were thin on the ground and most of the larger towns were majority Jewish. Just like Jerusalem was prior to the land thefts of 1948 and 1949 by the Palestinians.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> MidEast Web - Population of Palestine
> 
> _*7. The city of Jerusalem has had a Jewish majority since about 1896 - *The city of Jerusalem itself there was a Jewish majority *since about 1896, but probably not before*. The district of Jerusalem (as opposed to the city) comprised a very wide area in Ottoman and British times, in which there was *a Muslim majority*. This included Jericho, Bethlehem and other towns.  Within the Jerusalem district, there was a subdistrict of Jerusalem that includes many of the immediate suburbs such as Eyn Karem, Beit Zeit etc. In that subdistrict, the Jews remained a minority , with only about 52,000 out of 132,000 persons in 1931 for example_​
Click to expand...



I go to source documents available from official archives and use the source data.  As reported by the British, there were only a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850.


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Land has shifted back and forth over the centuries...
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. Just as it has since 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...If people have been living on land for generations - it is theirs for all effective purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed. Just ask the 2nd and 3rd and 4th -generation Israelis now in possession of that land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree - when you get to that point, the original owners are dead and there is no sense in displacing people.  But the land theft that occurred in 1967 and later - the original people are still alive, and return of the land or compensation should be addressed as well as a complete stop to more taking of land through "settlements".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What about the land theft of 1948 and 1949 when Jews were murdered by arab muslims in gaza and the west bank because they were the majority land owners and occupants in many of the towns and cities. Does the right of return not apply to them also, don't they have the right to the land in the west bank taken from them by force.
> 
> So will you join in the simplest solution to the Palestinian problem and do land swaps with the arab muslims  for every two dunums of stolen Jewish land the Palestinians give up one dunum of Palestine. Once all of Palestine has gone then the arab muslims can sell the remaining Jewish land to the thieves who are settled on it since 1948. That way everyone is happy and there is no more problems over who owns the land anymore. The arab muslims will always get the best of the deal as they will receive twice as much as they allegedly lost. ( the land stolen from the Jews between 1948 and 1967 amounts to an area 4 times the size of Jordan with less than 10% being in Palestine )
Click to expand...


The non-Jews owned 90% of the land in Palestine in 1943, how could they steal their own land?


----------



## aris2chat

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were a handful of Jews in Palestine before 1850 and several hundred thousand Christians and Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to ISLAMONAZI sources, *while unbiased sources say that the arab muslims were thin on the ground and most of the larger towns were majority Jewish. Just like Jerusalem was prior to the land thefts of 1948 and 1949 by the Palestinians.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> MidEast Web - Population of Palestine
> 
> _*7. The city of Jerusalem has had a Jewish majority since about 1896 - *The city of Jerusalem itself there was a Jewish majority *since about 1896, but probably not before*. The district of Jerusalem (as opposed to the city) comprised a very wide area in Ottoman and British times, in which there was *a Muslim majority*. This included Jericho, Bethlehem and other towns.  Within the Jerusalem district, there was a subdistrict of Jerusalem that includes many of the immediate suburbs such as Eyn Karem, Beit Zeit etc. In that subdistrict, the Jews remained a minority , with only about 52,000 out of 132,000 persons in 1931 for example_​
Click to expand...


Jewish attachment to the wall is recorded as going back to the 4th Century.  16th Century, Ottoman recognized jewish right to pray at the wall.  19th Century, there will be no interference with jewish places of worship.

It does not matter how many live next to the wall or outside, the jewish places of worship in Jerusalem or the Greater Palestinian Mandate, should not be restricted or prevent.  It recognizes the jewish link to the area.
Muslim links to the area begins in the 7th C. after the conquest in the and building of al-Aqsa so muslim could pray on the mount near where jewish and christians came on pilgrimage to the rock.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were a handful of Jews in Palestine before 1850 and several hundred thousand Christians and Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It may have been small - I think the Ottoman census around then placed it around 15,000 but it was none the less a significant enough population not to be counted as "zero".
Click to expand...




Try this for size

Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



YearJewsChristiansMuslimsTotalFirst half 1st century CEMajority––~2,5005th centuryMinorityMajority–>1st centuryEnd 12th centuryMinorityMinorityMajority>22514th century before Black DeathMinorityMinorityMajority22514th century after Black DeathMinorityMinorityMajority1501533–1539561451571690–169121121923218007222462751890435743253219149470525689192284715897521931175897601,03319476301431,1811,970
[THEAD]
[/THEAD]
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]

All figures in thousandsand from the 12C to 1890 the majority of the muslims were Ottomans or Turkish as the arabs refused to take up the land. As yu can see by the figures the muslim population increased above that for natural progression and must be down to illegal immigration from outside Palestine. N0 3rd world nation could double its population  in 90 years without immigration taking place.


----------



## Phoenall

Penelope said:


> TBH, The fascist Zionist are the problem in the world today.  Middle America, we aren't even taking care of the America we have as we are too invested in the ME for Israel and SA and our neocons who love war.
> 
> I for one do not want 1 cent of my tax dollars going to Israel anymore.






 Then move to palestine


----------



## aris2chat

montelatici said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were a handful of Jews in Palestine before 1850 and several hundred thousand Christians and Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to ISLAMONAZI sources, *while unbiased sources say that the arab muslims were thin on the ground and most of the larger towns were majority Jewish. Just like Jerusalem was prior to the land thefts of 1948 and 1949 by the Palestinians.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> MidEast Web - Population of Palestine
> 
> _*7. The city of Jerusalem has had a Jewish majority since about 1896 - *The city of Jerusalem itself there was a Jewish majority *since about 1896, but probably not before*. The district of Jerusalem (as opposed to the city) comprised a very wide area in Ottoman and British times, in which there was *a Muslim majority*. This included Jericho, Bethlehem and other towns.  Within the Jerusalem district, there was a subdistrict of Jerusalem that includes many of the immediate suburbs such as Eyn Karem, Beit Zeit etc. In that subdistrict, the Jews remained a minority , with only about 52,000 out of 132,000 persons in 1931 for example_​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I go to source documents available from official archives and use the source data.  As reported by the British, there were only a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850.
Click to expand...


Try spending weeks in the gloomy turkish archives going through land registries.  Now they have been moved to a modern archive and are being scanned for digital access, but it will take years to finish.


----------



## Coyote

Kondor3 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Land has shifted back and forth over the centuries...
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. Just as it has since 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...If people have been living on land for generations - it is theirs for all effective purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed. Just ask the 2nd and 3rd and 4th -generation Israelis now in possession of that land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree - when you get to that point, the original owners are dead and there is no sense in displacing people.  But the land theft that occurred in 1967 and later - the original people are still alive, and return of the land or compensation should be addressed as well as a complete stop to more taking of land through "settlements".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right of Return will no longer work, in connection with 1948-1949.
> 
> Return to the 1967 borders will no longer work, in connection with Israeli security and safety.
> 
> Compensation has marvelous possibilities.
> 
> *But there is no longer enough land with which to make-up a sustainable nation-state.*
> 
> That leaves population transfer - relocation - as the only practical outcome.
> 
> I know that this does not sit well, but the Losing Side is just going to have to suck it up, eventually, and move on.
> 
> If they did so voluntarily and with the blessing and large-scale assistance of the outside world, that would be best.
> 
> But, sooner or later, it's going to happen.
> 
> The Palestinians might as well leverage that as best they can, while they still can.
> 
> I sense time running out for the Palestinians to get anything whatsoever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes there is.
> 
> Start negotiations at the 1967 borders and negotiate landswaps.
> 
> Israel needs to give up some things too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is the winner, Coyote.
> 
> Losers do not dictate terms.
> 
> The West Bank no longer exists as a coherent and contiguous Palestinian-controlled land mass.
> 
> Gaza can be overrun in a week, should the Isrealis put their mind to it.
> 
> They no longer have any motive to make concessions, and they've been burned on land-for-peace deals multiple times in the past.
> 
> Confidence is reasonably high that the time for such talk is behind us now.
> 
> And, if that turns out to be true, then the Losing Side is going to be sent packing, one way or another.
> 
> Why not get ahead of that trend and bend it to your (their) people's advantage?
> 
> But they won't.
Click to expand...



The problem with that attitude is, they will never have peace unless they either negotiate for it or conduct an operation that will involve huge human rights violations and will be deplored by the international community of which they are part of. The political and possibly economic price would affect them for a long time. It would be comparable to Stalin's forced population shifts to dilute ethnic minorities. Not a favorable comparison.


The 1967 land borders would be a starting point - not an ending point.  No one realistically expects Israel to keep that.  So land swaps would be negotiated until a viable state and security situation is achieved for both sides.  No one is going to get everything they want.


----------



## montelatici

You are just posting propaganda.  Try using source documents which contradict everything you claim.


*REPORT by His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom *​*of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the ​**Council of the League of Nations *​

6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--






_All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
of population
Increase by
migration
Natural
increase631,272

281,339

349,933286,770

25,168

*261,602*302,294

*245,433*

56,86138,305

10,414

27,8913,903

324

3,579
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937 ​


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were a handful of Jews in Palestine before 1850 and several hundred thousand Christians and Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It may have been small - I think the Ottoman census around then placed it around 15,000 but it was none the less a significant enough population not to be counted as "zero".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try this for size
> 
> Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> YearJewsChristiansMuslimsTotalFirst half 1st century CEMajority––~2,5005th centuryMinorityMajority–>1st centuryEnd 12th centuryMinorityMinorityMajority>22514th century before Black DeathMinorityMinorityMajority22514th century after Black DeathMinorityMinorityMajority1501533–1539561451571690–169121121923218007222462751890435743253219149470525689192284715897521931175897601,03319476301431,1811,970
> [THEAD]
> [/THEAD]
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]
> All figures in thousandsand from the 12C to 1890 the majority of the muslims were Ottomans or Turkish as the arabs refused to take up the land. As yu can see by the figures the muslim population increased above that for natural progression and must be down to illegal immigration from outside Palestine. N0 3rd world nation could double its population  in 90 years without immigration taking place.
Click to expand...



Did you notice the  note published at the top of your source?  


> This article or section *possibly contains previously unpublished synthesis of published material that conveys ideas not attributable to the original sources.* Relevant discussion may be found on the talk page. _(September 2011)_


----------



## ChrisL

THIS is all that matters.  The "ancient claims" mean nothing.  


The Jews were GIVEN the state of Israel, which the Arabs did not like, fought with them over it, and LOST.  End of story.  



> UNSCOP recommended to partition Palestine into two states – one Jewish and one Arab. This Partition Plan was rejected by all the Arab states. The resolution was passed in the United Nations with a vote of 33-13. Amazingly, both the United States and the Soviet Union supported the resolution, at the height of the Cold War. Russia believed that a Jewish state with many Socialist and Communist ideals would lead it eventually become part of the Soviet sphere of influence. This passing of the Partition Plan negatively affected over 1 million Sephardic Jews living in Arab lands, where the Muslims began turning against their Jewish citizens.
> 
> Since there was no U.N. provision to implement the Partition Plan, the Jews and Arabs were let to resolve the conflict themselves. Arab violence escalated and war quickly became the norm. By May of 1948, 1256 Jews, mostly civilians, had been killed by Arabs. As the war for Jewish survival increased, thousands of local Palestinians fled to neighboring Arab countries – believing that when the Jews were defeated they would return home.
> 
> On May 14, 1948, the British officially left Palestine and on the same day, the State of Israel was immediately declared by David Ben Gurion, acting as its provisional Prime Minister.
> 
> America was the first country to officially recognize the new State of Israel – eleven minutes after it was declared. U.S. President Harry Truman signed the letter of recognition – despite the objections by The United States Secretary of State George Marshall and the entire State Department.
> 
> Immediately after the declaration an all-out war broke out between the Jews and Arabs. Seven Arab armies attacked the new Jewish State – but were not united both militarily and politically. For example, the Arab League was established in order to counter The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem’s ambition to secure domination of Arab Palestine. At the same time, King Abdullah of Jordan wanted to merge Palestine with his kingdom. Eventually, the Arab forces began to lose the war.
> 
> As the war was raging the Jewish leadership begged the local Palestinian Arabs not to abandon their homes but the Arab leadership forbade the Arabs to return or live in areas under Jewish rule.
> 
> Unfortunately, in one form or anther, the war and battles that began in 1948 have continue to this day.
> 
> How different the situation in the Middle East would have been today if the Arabs had opened their hearts to live in peace with their Jewish neighbors – and had accepted the UN Partition Plan, which so favorable to them.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Land has shifted back and forth over the centuries...
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. Just as it has since 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...If people have been living on land for generations - it is theirs for all effective purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed. Just ask the 2nd and 3rd and 4th -generation Israelis now in possession of that land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem is, there are more non-Jews than Jews among the people the Jews have control over. That almost never works out well for the minority in the long run.
Click to expand...




The Palestinians only have two choices left make peace under the UN charter or be wiped out in the fullness of time. They need to acquire weapons for the demographics to be in their favour and you cant hide tanks when you are occupied. So how will increased population help them when they outstrip the natural resources and destroy the land. Then nature will start killing the Palestinians to level the playing field again. The problem with gaza is they are surrounded by armed soldiers who can just stand back and fire from long range at targets pinpointed by satellite technology. One hamas mine under a Jewish school and all of gaza will be flattened with the world cheering on the Israelis. And you will be in hiding because no muslim would be ever safe again in the west.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> What Jews invaded Palestine then monti, or are you talking about the legal land owners coming and evicting the squatters from their land. At no time was any part of Palestine bequeathed to the arab muslims by its legal owners, so were was this fictional land ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right, I don't have a deed or any proof, but this is "my" land.  What a crock!  Like I said above, it's akin to a Native American demanding you give up your home because that was his families lands generations ago.
> 
> These people are unrealistic and ridiculous expectations, and I wonder what they think the region would be like then?  Do they actually think these people are going to be "peaceful" suddenly?  Good grief!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In the camps in beirut, palestinians were handed old keys and the publishing house were printing fake deed for those keys.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is fraud on the other side as well.
> 
> Israeli court orders settlers to return land to Palestinian owners - Diplomacy Defense Israel News Haaretz
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel courts have favored palestinians on land issues in the WB, for the most part.
> Like in the US, courts are not there to green light politicians but to bring balance to bills being passed.
> Israel s High Court rules in favor of Palestinians i24news - See beyond
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think the Israeli High Court does a decent job and keeps the government in check.
> 
> Edited to add - finished reading the article, that's a good article - it's heartening to read.  Thanks for posting it!
Click to expand...





 Pity the Palestinians cant be seen to be doing the same thing isn't it. Giving two convicted child murders a 5 year vacation on full pay sends out the wrong signals


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Land has shifted back and forth over the centuries...
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. Just as it has since 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...If people have been living on land for generations - it is theirs for all effective purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed. Just ask the 2nd and 3rd and 4th -generation Israelis now in possession of that land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree - when you get to that point, the original owners are dead and there is no sense in displacing people.  But the land theft that occurred in 1967 and later - the original people are still alive, and return of the land or compensation should be addressed as well as a complete stop to more taking of land through "settlements".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right of Return will no longer work, in connection with 1948-1949.
> 
> Return to the 1967 borders will no longer work, in connection with Israeli security and safety.
> 
> Compensation has marvelous possibilities.
> 
> *But there is no longer enough land with which to make-up a sustainable nation-state.*
> 
> That leaves population transfer - relocation - as the only practical outcome.
> 
> I know that this does not sit well, but the Losing Side is just going to have to suck it up, eventually, and move on.
> 
> If they did so voluntarily and with the blessing and large-scale assistance of the outside world, that would be best.
> 
> But, sooner or later, it's going to happen.
> 
> The Palestinians might as well leverage that as best they can, while they still can.
> 
> I sense time running out for the Palestinians to get anything whatsoever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes there is.
> 
> Start negotiations at the 1967 borders and negotiate landswaps.
> 
> Israel needs to give up some things too.
Click to expand...




 What 1967 borders LINK PLEASE to these borders that have never existed, and that the Palestinians denied were to be seen as borders until such a time as the Jews were wiped out and Israel destroyed.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were a handful of Jews in Palestine before 1850 and several hundred thousand Christians and Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to ISLAMONAZI sources, *while unbiased sources say that the arab muslims were thin on the ground and most of the larger towns were majority Jewish. Just like Jerusalem was prior to the land thefts of 1948 and 1949 by the Palestinians.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> MidEast Web - Population of Palestine
> 
> _*7. The city of Jerusalem has had a Jewish majority since about 1896 - *The city of Jerusalem itself there was a Jewish majority *since about 1896, but probably not before*. The district of Jerusalem (as opposed to the city) comprised a very wide area in Ottoman and British times, in which there was *a Muslim majority*. This included Jericho, Bethlehem and other towns.  Within the Jerusalem district, there was a subdistrict of Jerusalem that includes many of the immediate suburbs such as Eyn Karem, Beit Zeit etc. In that subdistrict, the Jews remained a minority , with only about 52,000 out of 132,000 persons in 1931 for example_​
Click to expand...




 And in 1948 1949 they were ethnically cleansed and their lands and property stolen. These lands are now were the settlements are being built as the Jews reclaim what was stolen


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were a handful of Jews in Palestine before 1850 and several hundred thousand Christians and Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to ISLAMONAZI sources, while unbiased sources say that the arab muslims were thin on the ground and most of the larger towns were majority Jewish. Just like Jerusalem was prior to the land thefts of 1948 and 1949 by the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What unbiased sources?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE,
> 
> PALESTINE, during the period 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921. AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE. I.--THE CONDITION OF PALESTINE AFTER THE WAR *​
> There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*_See_ Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.​
> *The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. -*​
> *See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921 *​
Click to expand...




All lies


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Land has shifted back and forth over the centuries...
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. Just as it has since 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...If people have been living on land for generations - it is theirs for all effective purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed. Just ask the 2nd and 3rd and 4th -generation Israelis now in possession of that land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree - when you get to that point, the original owners are dead and there is no sense in displacing people.  But the land theft that occurred in 1967 and later - the original people are still alive, and return of the land or compensation should be addressed as well as a complete stop to more taking of land through "settlements".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What about the land theft of 1948 and 1949 when Jews were murdered by arab muslims in gaza and the west bank because they were the majority land owners and occupants in many of the towns and cities. Does the right of return not apply to them also, don't they have the right to the land in the west bank taken from them by force.
> 
> So will you join in the simplest solution to the Palestinian problem and do land swaps with the arab muslims  for every two dunums of stolen Jewish land the Palestinians give up one dunum of Palestine. Once all of Palestine has gone then the arab muslims can sell the remaining Jewish land to the thieves who are settled on it since 1948. That way everyone is happy and there is no more problems over who owns the land anymore. The arab muslims will always get the best of the deal as they will receive twice as much as they allegedly lost. ( the land stolen from the Jews between 1948 and 1967 amounts to an area 4 times the size of Jordan with less than 10% being in Palestine )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The non-Jews owned 90% of the land in Palestine in 1943, how could they steal their own land?
> 
> 
> View attachment 32593
Click to expand...




 But they were not arab muslim Palestinians were they, they were Ottoman landlords who lived elsewhere.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.



By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?

If so - then I disagree.  By what authority?  Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?

I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).

The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.

In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were a handful of Jews in Palestine before 1850 and several hundred thousand Christians and Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It may have been small - I think the Ottoman census around then placed it around 15,000 but it was none the less a significant enough population not to be counted as "zero".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try this for size
> 
> Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> YearJewsChristiansMuslimsTotalFirst half 1st century CEMajority––~2,5005th centuryMinorityMajority–>1st centuryEnd 12th centuryMinorityMinorityMajority>22514th century before Black DeathMinorityMinorityMajority22514th century after Black DeathMinorityMinorityMajority1501533–1539561451571690–169121121923218007222462751890435743253219149470525689192284715897521931175897601,03319476301431,1811,970
> [THEAD]
> [/THEAD]
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]All figures in thousandsand from the 12C to 1890 the majority of the muslims were Ottomans or Turkish as the arabs refused to take up the land. As yu can see by the figures the muslim population increased above that for natural progression and must be down to illegal immigration from outside Palestine. N0 3rd world nation could double its population  in 90 years without immigration taking place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Did you notice the  note published at the top of your source?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This article or section *possibly contains previously unpublished synthesis of published material that conveys ideas not attributable to the original sources.* Relevant discussion may be found on the talk page. _(September 2011)_
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...





 AND  your point being what . Did you go to the talk page and see what was being discussed


----------



## Penelope

Phoenall said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> TBH, The fascist Zionist are the problem in the world today.  Middle America, we aren't even taking care of the America we have as we are too invested in the ME for Israel and SA and our neocons who love war.
> 
> I for one do not want 1 cent of my tax dollars going to Israel anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then move to palestine
Click to expand...


Why would I move to Palestine?


----------



## montelatici

ChrisL said:


> THIS is all that matters.  The "ancient claims" mean nothing.
> 
> 
> The Jews were GIVEN the state of Israel, which the Arabs did not like, fought with them over it, and LOST.  End of story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNSCOP recommended to partition Palestine into two states – one Jewish and one Arab. This Partition Plan was rejected by all the Arab states. The resolution was passed in the United Nations with a vote of 33-13. Amazingly, both the United States and the Soviet Union supported the resolution, at the height of the Cold War. Russia believed that a Jewish state with many Socialist and Communist ideals would lead it eventually become part of the Soviet sphere of influence. This passing of the Partition Plan negatively affected over 1 million Sephardic Jews living in Arab lands, where the Muslims began turning against their Jewish citizens.
> 
> Since there was no U.N. provision to implement the Partition Plan, the Jews and Arabs were let to resolve the conflict themselves. Arab violence escalated and war quickly became the norm. By May of 1948, 1256 Jews, mostly civilians, had been killed by Arabs. As the war for Jewish survival increased, thousands of local Palestinians fled to neighboring Arab countries – believing that when the Jews were defeated they would return home.
> 
> On May 14, 1948, the British officially left Palestine and on the same day, the State of Israel was immediately declared by David Ben Gurion, acting as its provisional Prime Minister.
> 
> America was the first country to officially recognize the new State of Israel – eleven minutes after it was declared. U.S. President Harry Truman signed the letter of recognition – despite the objections by The United States Secretary of State George Marshall and the entire State Department.
> 
> Immediately after the declaration an all-out war broke out between the Jews and Arabs. Seven Arab armies attacked the new Jewish State – but were not united both militarily and politically. For example, the Arab League was established in order to counter The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem’s ambition to secure domination of Arab Palestine. At the same time, King Abdullah of Jordan wanted to merge Palestine with his kingdom. Eventually, the Arab forces began to lose the war.
> 
> As the war was raging the Jewish leadership begged the local Palestinian Arabs not to abandon their homes but the Arab leadership forbade the Arabs to return or live in areas under Jewish rule.
> 
> Unfortunately, in one form or anther, the war and battles that began in 1948 have continue to this day.
> 
> How different the situation in the Middle East would have been today if the Arabs had opened their hearts to live in peace with their Jewish neighbors – and had accepted the UN Partition Plan, which so favorable to them.
Click to expand...



Why do you just spout propaganda?  Are really that thick that you believe we don't have access to the facts?

For example:

"Jewish leadership begged the local Palestinian Arabs not to abandon their homes"

Do you realize what a bunch of horseshit that is?

The facts:

" a report prepared by the intelligence services of the Israeli army, dated 30 June 1948 and entitled “The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948”. This document sets at 391,000 the number of Palestinians who had already left the territory that was by then in the hands of Israel, and evaluates the various factors that had prompted their decisions to leave. “At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations.” To this figure, the report’s compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which “directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration”. A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to “fears” and “a crisis of confidence” affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases..."


The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?
> 
> If so - then I disagree.  By what authority?  Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?
> 
> I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).
> 
> The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.
> 
> In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.
> 
> I'm not sure about this...@RoccoR - if you have time could you clarify?  Is it as simple as Britain gave it to the Jews?
Click to expand...


You should read post 354.  It explains what went on in detail.


----------



## ChrisL

montelatici said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> THIS is all that matters.  The "ancient claims" mean nothing.
> 
> 
> The Jews were GIVEN the state of Israel, which the Arabs did not like, fought with them over it, and LOST.  End of story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNSCOP recommended to partition Palestine into two states – one Jewish and one Arab. This Partition Plan was rejected by all the Arab states. The resolution was passed in the United Nations with a vote of 33-13. Amazingly, both the United States and the Soviet Union supported the resolution, at the height of the Cold War. Russia believed that a Jewish state with many Socialist and Communist ideals would lead it eventually become part of the Soviet sphere of influence. This passing of the Partition Plan negatively affected over 1 million Sephardic Jews living in Arab lands, where the Muslims began turning against their Jewish citizens.
> 
> Since there was no U.N. provision to implement the Partition Plan, the Jews and Arabs were let to resolve the conflict themselves. Arab violence escalated and war quickly became the norm. By May of 1948, 1256 Jews, mostly civilians, had been killed by Arabs. As the war for Jewish survival increased, thousands of local Palestinians fled to neighboring Arab countries – believing that when the Jews were defeated they would return home.
> 
> On May 14, 1948, the British officially left Palestine and on the same day, the State of Israel was immediately declared by David Ben Gurion, acting as its provisional Prime Minister.
> 
> America was the first country to officially recognize the new State of Israel – eleven minutes after it was declared. U.S. President Harry Truman signed the letter of recognition – despite the objections by The United States Secretary of State George Marshall and the entire State Department.
> 
> Immediately after the declaration an all-out war broke out between the Jews and Arabs. Seven Arab armies attacked the new Jewish State – but were not united both militarily and politically. For example, the Arab League was established in order to counter The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem’s ambition to secure domination of Arab Palestine. At the same time, King Abdullah of Jordan wanted to merge Palestine with his kingdom. Eventually, the Arab forces began to lose the war.
> 
> As the war was raging the Jewish leadership begged the local Palestinian Arabs not to abandon their homes but the Arab leadership forbade the Arabs to return or live in areas under Jewish rule.
> 
> Unfortunately, in one form or anther, the war and battles that began in 1948 have continue to this day.
> 
> How different the situation in the Middle East would have been today if the Arabs had opened their hearts to live in peace with their Jewish neighbors – and had accepted the UN Partition Plan, which so favorable to them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you just spout propaganda?  Are really that thick that you believe we don't have access to the facts?
> 
> For example:
> 
> "Jewish leadership begged the local Palestinian Arabs not to abandon their homes"
> 
> Do you realize what a bunch of horseshit that is?
> 
> The facts:
> 
> " a report prepared by the intelligence services of the Israeli army, dated 30 June 1948 and entitled “The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948”. This document sets at 391,000 the number of Palestinians who had already left the territory that was by then in the hands of Israel, and evaluates the various factors that had prompted their decisions to leave. “At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations.” To this figure, the report’s compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which “directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration”. A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to “fears” and “a crisis of confidence” affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases..."
> 
> 
> The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition
Click to expand...


It isn't propaganda, but your links are certainly propaganda.  Here is another link with the same exact information because this is EXACTLY how it happened.  Also, this is an unbiased link.  Too bad for you that Israel won.  That's that.  They won.  The land is theirs.  End of story.  

Palestine 1918 to 1948



> In 1947, the newly formed United Nations accepted the idea to partition Palestine into a zone for the Jews (Israel) and a zone for the Arabs (Palestine). With this United Nations proposal, the British withdrew from the region on May 14th 1948. Almost immediately, Israel was attacked by Arab nations that surrounded in a war that lasted from May 1948 to January 1949. Palestinian Arabs refused to recognise Israel and it became the turn of the Israeli government itself to suffer from terrorist attacks when fedayeen (fanatics) from the Palestinian Arabs community attacked Israel. Such attacks later became more organised with the creation of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO). To the Palestinian Arabs, the area the Jews call Israel, will always be Palestine. To the Jews it is Israel. There have been very few years of peace in the region since 1948.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?
> 
> If so - then I disagree.  By what authority?  Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?
> 
> I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).
> 
> The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.
> 
> In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.
> 
> I'm not sure about this...@RoccoR - if you have time could you clarify?  Is it as simple as Britain gave it to the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You should read post 354.  It explains what went on in detail.
Click to expand...


Ah...I missed that post.  Sometimes I dislike this new formatting.

Then what you are saying is that Israel was given the land as exists in the partition plan?
United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?
> 
> If so - then I disagree.  By what authority?  Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?
> 
> I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).
> 
> The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.
> 
> In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.
> 
> I'm not sure about this...@RoccoR - if you have time could you clarify?  Is it as simple as Britain gave it to the Jews?
Click to expand...





 First of it was not the British that gave the Jews anything, it was the LoN who were the legal land owners under customary International Law. The British were just caretakers of the land until such time as the inhabitants were able to show free will and the ability to govern themselves.  The treaties have been produced hundreds of times that show the LoN allocating Palestine to the Jews as their RESURECTED NATIONAL HOME. The balfour declaration was not a handing over of any land just support for the forming of the Jews homeland.


----------



## ChrisL

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?
> 
> If so - then I disagree.  By what authority?  Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?
> 
> I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).
> 
> The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.
> 
> In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.
> 
> I'm not sure about this...@RoccoR - if you have time could you clarify?  Is it as simple as Britain gave it to the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First of it was not the British that gave the Jews anything, it was the LoN who were the legal land owners under customary International Law. The British were just caretakers of the land until such time as the inhabitants were able to show free will and the ability to govern themselves.  The treaties have been produced hundreds of times that show the LoN allocating Palestine to the Jews as their RESURECTED NATIONAL HOME. The balfour declaration was not a handing over of any land just support for the forming of the Jews homeland.
Click to expand...


That's true.  I was mistaken.


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?
> 
> If so - then I disagree.  By what authority?  Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?
> 
> I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).
> 
> The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.
> 
> In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.
> 
> I'm not sure about this...@RoccoR - if you have time could you clarify?  Is it as simple as Britain gave it to the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You should read post 354.  It explains what went on in detail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah...I missed that post.  Sometimes I dislike this new formatting.
> 
> Then what you are saying is that Israel was given the land as exists in the partition plan?
> United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


Sorry, I have to get back to work, but I'll read your post later.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?
> 
> If so - then I disagree.  By what authority?  Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?
> 
> I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).
> 
> The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.
> 
> In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.
> 
> I'm not sure about this...@RoccoR - if you have time could you clarify?  Is it as simple as Britain gave it to the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You should read post 354.  It explains what went on in detail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah...I missed that post.  Sometimes I dislike this new formatting.
> 
> Then what you are saying is that Israel was given the land as exists in the partition plan?
> United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...



 No they were originally given all of Palestine later amended to what is now Palestine

 See these







Ammended to this


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?
> 
> If so - then I disagree.  By what authority?  Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?
> 
> I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).
> 
> The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.
> 
> In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.
> 
> I'm not sure about this...@RoccoR - if you have time could you clarify?  Is it as simple as Britain gave it to the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You should read post 354.  It explains what went on in detail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah...I missed that post.  Sometimes I dislike this new formatting.
> 
> Then what you are saying is that Israel was given the land as exists in the partition plan?
> United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No they were originally given all of Palestine later amended to what is now Palestine
> 
> See these
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammended to this
Click to expand...


Based on what?


----------



## Kondor3

Coyote said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. Just as it has since 1948.
> 
> Indeed. Just ask the 2nd and 3rd and 4th -generation Israelis now in possession of that land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agree - when you get to that point, the original owners are dead and there is no sense in displacing people.  But the land theft that occurred in 1967 and later - the original people are still alive, and return of the land or compensation should be addressed as well as a complete stop to more taking of land through "settlements".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right of Return will no longer work, in connection with 1948-1949.
> 
> Return to the 1967 borders will no longer work, in connection with Israeli security and safety.
> 
> Compensation has marvelous possibilities.
> 
> *But there is no longer enough land with which to make-up a sustainable nation-state.*
> 
> That leaves population transfer - relocation - as the only practical outcome.
> 
> I know that this does not sit well, but the Losing Side is just going to have to suck it up, eventually, and move on.
> 
> If they did so voluntarily and with the blessing and large-scale assistance of the outside world, that would be best.
> 
> But, sooner or later, it's going to happen.
> 
> The Palestinians might as well leverage that as best they can, while they still can.
> 
> I sense time running out for the Palestinians to get anything whatsoever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes there is.
> 
> Start negotiations at the 1967 borders and negotiate landswaps.
> 
> Israel needs to give up some things too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is the winner, Coyote.
> 
> Losers do not dictate terms.
> 
> The West Bank no longer exists as a coherent and contiguous Palestinian-controlled land mass.
> 
> Gaza can be overrun in a week, should the Isrealis put their mind to it.
> 
> They no longer have any motive to make concessions, and they've been burned on land-for-peace deals multiple times in the past.
> 
> Confidence is reasonably high that the time for such talk is behind us now.
> 
> And, if that turns out to be true, then the Losing Side is going to be sent packing, one way or another.
> 
> Why not get ahead of that trend and bend it to your (their) people's advantage?
> 
> But they won't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with that attitude is, they will never have peace unless they either negotiate for it or conduct an operation that will involve huge human rights violations and will be deplored by the international community of which they are part of. The political and possibly economic price would affect them for a long time. It would be comparable to Stalin's forced population shifts to dilute ethnic minorities. Not a favorable comparison.
> 
> 
> The 1967 land borders would be a starting point - not an ending point.  No one realistically expects Israel to keep that.  So land swaps would be negotiated until a viable state and security situation is achieved for both sides.  No one is going to get everything they want.
Click to expand...

You and I are miles apart, on (1) whether land-for-peace swaps are still a viable idea and (2) whether those two parties can live peacefully side-by-side afterwards.

I see some logic in what you say, and I agree that arbitrary and unilateral action to relocate the Palestinians would open-up several cans of worms, but that would probably not be the case if the UN stepped-in, and relocated them rather than the Israelis - a UN backed by much of the world, including the US, for logistics and financial support during the transition and in the first decade or two beyond.

I don't see another way out - you believe you do - tomato, tomahhtoe... potato, potaaato... if we're lucky, we may live to see the end-game played out... I think it's coming sooner rather than later, for better or worse.


----------



## montelatici

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?
> 
> If so - then I disagree.  By what authority?  Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?
> 
> I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).
> 
> The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.
> 
> In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.
> 
> I'm not sure about this...@RoccoR - if you have time could you clarify?  Is it as simple as Britain gave it to the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You should read post 354.  It explains what went on in detail.
Click to expand...


No, post 354 is just a spouting of Zionist propaganda.  My post recapitulates an Israeli Army intelligence report written at the time of the events.


----------



## montelatici

ChrisL said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> THIS is all that matters.  The "ancient claims" mean nothing.
> 
> 
> The Jews were GIVEN the state of Israel, which the Arabs did not like, fought with them over it, and LOST.  End of story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNSCOP recommended to partition Palestine into two states – one Jewish and one Arab. This Partition Plan was rejected by all the Arab states. The resolution was passed in the United Nations with a vote of 33-13. Amazingly, both the United States and the Soviet Union supported the resolution, at the height of the Cold War. Russia believed that a Jewish state with many Socialist and Communist ideals would lead it eventually become part of the Soviet sphere of influence. This passing of the Partition Plan negatively affected over 1 million Sephardic Jews living in Arab lands, where the Muslims began turning against their Jewish citizens.
> 
> Since there was no U.N. provision to implement the Partition Plan, the Jews and Arabs were let to resolve the conflict themselves. Arab violence escalated and war quickly became the norm. By May of 1948, 1256 Jews, mostly civilians, had been killed by Arabs. As the war for Jewish survival increased, thousands of local Palestinians fled to neighboring Arab countries – believing that when the Jews were defeated they would return home.
> 
> On May 14, 1948, the British officially left Palestine and on the same day, the State of Israel was immediately declared by David Ben Gurion, acting as its provisional Prime Minister.
> 
> America was the first country to officially recognize the new State of Israel – eleven minutes after it was declared. U.S. President Harry Truman signed the letter of recognition – despite the objections by The United States Secretary of State George Marshall and the entire State Department.
> 
> Immediately after the declaration an all-out war broke out between the Jews and Arabs. Seven Arab armies attacked the new Jewish State – but were not united both militarily and politically. For example, the Arab League was established in order to counter The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem’s ambition to secure domination of Arab Palestine. At the same time, King Abdullah of Jordan wanted to merge Palestine with his kingdom. Eventually, the Arab forces began to lose the war.
> 
> As the war was raging the Jewish leadership begged the local Palestinian Arabs not to abandon their homes but the Arab leadership forbade the Arabs to return or live in areas under Jewish rule.
> 
> Unfortunately, in one form or anther, the war and battles that began in 1948 have continue to this day.
> 
> How different the situation in the Middle East would have been today if the Arabs had opened their hearts to live in peace with their Jewish neighbors – and had accepted the UN Partition Plan, which so favorable to them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you just spout propaganda?  Are really that thick that you believe we don't have access to the facts?
> 
> For example:
> 
> "Jewish leadership begged the local Palestinian Arabs not to abandon their homes"
> 
> Do you realize what a bunch of horseshit that is?
> 
> The facts:
> 
> " a report prepared by the intelligence services of the Israeli army, dated 30 June 1948 and entitled “The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948”. This document sets at 391,000 the number of Palestinians who had already left the territory that was by then in the hands of Israel, and evaluates the various factors that had prompted their decisions to leave. “At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations.” To this figure, the report’s compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which “directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration”. A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to “fears” and “a crisis of confidence” affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases..."
> 
> 
> The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It isn't propaganda, but your links are certainly propaganda.  Here is another link with the same exact information because this is EXACTLY how it happened.  Also, this is an unbiased link.  Too bad for you that Israel won.  That's that.  They won.  The land is theirs.  End of story.
> 
> Palestine 1918 to 1948
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1947, the newly formed United Nations accepted the idea to partition Palestine into a zone for the Jews (Israel) and a zone for the Arabs (Palestine). With this United Nations proposal, the British withdrew from the region on May 14th 1948. Almost immediately, Israel was attacked by Arab nations that surrounded in a war that lasted from May 1948 to January 1949. Palestinian Arabs refused to recognise Israel and it became the turn of the Israeli government itself to suffer from terrorist attacks when fedayeen (fanatics) from the Palestinian Arabs community attacked Israel. Such attacks later became more organised with the creation of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO). To the Palestinian Arabs, the area the Jews call Israel, will always be Palestine. To the Jews it is Israel. There have been very few years of peace in the region since 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


My links are usually to official reports by the Mandatory to the League of Nations.  You are posting propaganda pieces. 

 The fact is that European Jews implemented a plan to ethnically cleanse the non-Jews and were successful.

There really can't be any question of the facts.  

Why would anyone recognize the establishment of a state created through their expulsion from their homes?


----------



## Beelzebub

The British - very pointedly - refused to hand over a state or a territory to the Zionist organisations, as that had never been the deal, and was only foisted upon the world by Zionist terrorists.  With US & Russian support the UN then ratified what had already been done by force of arms, and granted a state to those same terrorists.




Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?
> 
> If so - then I disagree.  By what authority?  Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?
> 
> I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).
> 
> The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.
> 
> In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.
Click to expand...


----------



## ChrisL

montelatici said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> THIS is all that matters.  The "ancient claims" mean nothing.
> 
> 
> The Jews were GIVEN the state of Israel, which the Arabs did not like, fought with them over it, and LOST.  End of story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNSCOP recommended to partition Palestine into two states – one Jewish and one Arab. This Partition Plan was rejected by all the Arab states. The resolution was passed in the United Nations with a vote of 33-13. Amazingly, both the United States and the Soviet Union supported the resolution, at the height of the Cold War. Russia believed that a Jewish state with many Socialist and Communist ideals would lead it eventually become part of the Soviet sphere of influence. This passing of the Partition Plan negatively affected over 1 million Sephardic Jews living in Arab lands, where the Muslims began turning against their Jewish citizens.
> 
> Since there was no U.N. provision to implement the Partition Plan, the Jews and Arabs were let to resolve the conflict themselves. Arab violence escalated and war quickly became the norm. By May of 1948, 1256 Jews, mostly civilians, had been killed by Arabs. As the war for Jewish survival increased, thousands of local Palestinians fled to neighboring Arab countries – believing that when the Jews were defeated they would return home.
> 
> On May 14, 1948, the British officially left Palestine and on the same day, the State of Israel was immediately declared by David Ben Gurion, acting as its provisional Prime Minister.
> 
> America was the first country to officially recognize the new State of Israel – eleven minutes after it was declared. U.S. President Harry Truman signed the letter of recognition – despite the objections by The United States Secretary of State George Marshall and the entire State Department.
> 
> Immediately after the declaration an all-out war broke out between the Jews and Arabs. Seven Arab armies attacked the new Jewish State – but were not united both militarily and politically. For example, the Arab League was established in order to counter The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem’s ambition to secure domination of Arab Palestine. At the same time, King Abdullah of Jordan wanted to merge Palestine with his kingdom. Eventually, the Arab forces began to lose the war.
> 
> As the war was raging the Jewish leadership begged the local Palestinian Arabs not to abandon their homes but the Arab leadership forbade the Arabs to return or live in areas under Jewish rule.
> 
> Unfortunately, in one form or anther, the war and battles that began in 1948 have continue to this day.
> 
> How different the situation in the Middle East would have been today if the Arabs had opened their hearts to live in peace with their Jewish neighbors – and had accepted the UN Partition Plan, which so favorable to them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you just spout propaganda?  Are really that thick that you believe we don't have access to the facts?
> 
> For example:
> 
> "Jewish leadership begged the local Palestinian Arabs not to abandon their homes"
> 
> Do you realize what a bunch of horseshit that is?
> 
> The facts:
> 
> " a report prepared by the intelligence services of the Israeli army, dated 30 June 1948 and entitled “The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948”. This document sets at 391,000 the number of Palestinians who had already left the territory that was by then in the hands of Israel, and evaluates the various factors that had prompted their decisions to leave. “At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations.” To this figure, the report’s compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which “directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration”. A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to “fears” and “a crisis of confidence” affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases..."
> 
> 
> The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It isn't propaganda, but your links are certainly propaganda.  Here is another link with the same exact information because this is EXACTLY how it happened.  Also, this is an unbiased link.  Too bad for you that Israel won.  That's that.  They won.  The land is theirs.  End of story.
> 
> Palestine 1918 to 1948
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1947, the newly formed United Nations accepted the idea to partition Palestine into a zone for the Jews (Israel) and a zone for the Arabs (Palestine). With this United Nations proposal, the British withdrew from the region on May 14th 1948. Almost immediately, Israel was attacked by Arab nations that surrounded in a war that lasted from May 1948 to January 1949. Palestinian Arabs refused to recognise Israel and it became the turn of the Israeli government itself to suffer from terrorist attacks when fedayeen (fanatics) from the Palestinian Arabs community attacked Israel. Such attacks later became more organised with the creation of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO). To the Palestinian Arabs, the area the Jews call Israel, will always be Palestine. To the Jews it is Israel. There have been very few years of peace in the region since 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My links are usually to official reports by the Mandatory to the League of Nations.  You are posting propaganda pieces.
> 
> The fact is that European Jews implemented a plan to ethnically cleanse the non-Jews and were successful.
> 
> There really can't be any question of the facts.
> 
> Why would anyone recognize the establishment of a state created through their expulsion from their homes?
Click to expand...


Are you saying this is not what happened?  You are so full of it.  Anyone can google it themselves to see.  The above which I linked to is completely accurate and truthful.  WHO do you think you're fooling?


----------



## ChrisL

Beelzebub said:


> The British - very pointedly - refused to hand over a state or a territory to the Zionist organisations, as that had never been the deal, and was only foisted upon the world by Zionist terrorists.  With US & Russian support the UN then ratified what had already been done by force of arms, and granted a state to those same terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?
> 
> If so - then I disagree.  By what authority?  Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?
> 
> I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).
> 
> The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.
> 
> In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


They didn't want to give it up to either side, and they were made to on a mandate.  It doesn't change the facts.


----------



## ChrisL

The Israelis were given the land when it was under control of the British, although all sides might not have found the situation favorable, the Israelis did NOT "steal" the land.  It WAS given to them.  Then they were attacked by the Arabs, and they WON the fight.  They are under NO obligation to give anything to anyone.  

*The Arab-Israeli War of 1948*
The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948. In 1947, and again on May 14, 1948, the United States had offered de facto recognition of the Israeli Provisional Government, but during the war, the United States maintained an arms embargo against all belligerents.





*Raising the Flag signified the Conclusion of the Conflict*

On November 29, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly adopted Resolution 181 (also known as thePartition Resolution) that would divide Great Britain’s former Palestinian mandate into Jewish and Arab states in May 1948. Under the resolution, the area of religious significance surrounding Jerusalem would remain under international control administered by the United Nations. The Palestinian Arabs refused to recognize this arrangement, which they regarded as favorable to the Jews and unfair to the Arab population that would remain in Jewish territory under the partition. The United States sought a middle way by supporting the United Nations resolution, but also encouraging negotiations between Arabs and Jews in the Middle East.

The United Nations resolution sparked conflict between Jewish and Arab groups within Palestine. Fighting began with attacks by irregular bands of Palestinian Arabs attached to local units of the Arab Liberation Army composed of volunteers from Palestine and neighboring Arab countries. These groups launched their attacks against Jewish cities, settlements, and armed forces. The Jewish forces were composed of the Haganah, the underground militia of the Jewish community in Palestine, and two small irregular groups, the Irgun, and LEHI. The goal of the Arabs was initially to block the Partition Resolution and to prevent the establishment of the Jewish state. The Jews, on the other hand, hoped to gain control over the territory allotted to them under the Partition Plan.

After Israel declared its independence on May 14, 1948, the fighting intensified with other Arab forces joining the Palestinian Arabs in attacking territory in the former Palestinian mandate. On the eve of May 14, the Arabs launched an air attack on Tel Aviv, which the Israelis resisted. This action was followed by the invasion of the former Palestinian mandate by Arab armies from Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt. Saudi Arabia sent a formation that fought under the Egyptian command. British trained forces from Transjordan eventually intervened in the conflict, but only in areas that had been designated as part of the Arab state under the United Nations Partition Plan and the corpus separatum of Jerusalem. After tense early fighting, Israeli forces, now under joint command, were able to gain the offensive.

See more . . . The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 - 1945 1952 - Milestones - Office of the Historian


----------



## montelatici

ChrisL said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> THIS is all that matters.  The "ancient claims" mean nothing.
> 
> 
> The Jews were GIVEN the state of Israel, which the Arabs did not like, fought with them over it, and LOST.  End of story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNSCOP recommended to partition Palestine into two states – one Jewish and one Arab. This Partition Plan was rejected by all the Arab states. The resolution was passed in the United Nations with a vote of 33-13. Amazingly, both the United States and the Soviet Union supported the resolution, at the height of the Cold War. Russia believed that a Jewish state with many Socialist and Communist ideals would lead it eventually become part of the Soviet sphere of influence. This passing of the Partition Plan negatively affected over 1 million Sephardic Jews living in Arab lands, where the Muslims began turning against their Jewish citizens.
> 
> Since there was no U.N. provision to implement the Partition Plan, the Jews and Arabs were let to resolve the conflict themselves. Arab violence escalated and war quickly became the norm. By May of 1948, 1256 Jews, mostly civilians, had been killed by Arabs. As the war for Jewish survival increased, thousands of local Palestinians fled to neighboring Arab countries – believing that when the Jews were defeated they would return home.
> 
> On May 14, 1948, the British officially left Palestine and on the same day, the State of Israel was immediately declared by David Ben Gurion, acting as its provisional Prime Minister.
> 
> America was the first country to officially recognize the new State of Israel – eleven minutes after it was declared. U.S. President Harry Truman signed the letter of recognition – despite the objections by The United States Secretary of State George Marshall and the entire State Department.
> 
> Immediately after the declaration an all-out war broke out between the Jews and Arabs. Seven Arab armies attacked the new Jewish State – but were not united both militarily and politically. For example, the Arab League was established in order to counter The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem’s ambition to secure domination of Arab Palestine. At the same time, King Abdullah of Jordan wanted to merge Palestine with his kingdom. Eventually, the Arab forces began to lose the war.
> 
> As the war was raging the Jewish leadership begged the local Palestinian Arabs not to abandon their homes but the Arab leadership forbade the Arabs to return or live in areas under Jewish rule.
> 
> Unfortunately, in one form or anther, the war and battles that began in 1948 have continue to this day.
> 
> How different the situation in the Middle East would have been today if the Arabs had opened their hearts to live in peace with their Jewish neighbors – and had accepted the UN Partition Plan, which so favorable to them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you just spout propaganda?  Are really that thick that you believe we don't have access to the facts?
> 
> For example:
> 
> "Jewish leadership begged the local Palestinian Arabs not to abandon their homes"
> 
> Do you realize what a bunch of horseshit that is?
> 
> The facts:
> 
> " a report prepared by the intelligence services of the Israeli army, dated 30 June 1948 and entitled “The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948”. This document sets at 391,000 the number of Palestinians who had already left the territory that was by then in the hands of Israel, and evaluates the various factors that had prompted their decisions to leave. “At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations.” To this figure, the report’s compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which “directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration”. A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to “fears” and “a crisis of confidence” affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases..."
> 
> 
> The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It isn't propaganda, but your links are certainly propaganda.  Here is another link with the same exact information because this is EXACTLY how it happened.  Also, this is an unbiased link.  Too bad for you that Israel won.  That's that.  They won.  The land is theirs.  End of story.
> 
> Palestine 1918 to 1948
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1947, the newly formed United Nations accepted the idea to partition Palestine into a zone for the Jews (Israel) and a zone for the Arabs (Palestine). With this United Nations proposal, the British withdrew from the region on May 14th 1948. Almost immediately, Israel was attacked by Arab nations that surrounded in a war that lasted from May 1948 to January 1949. Palestinian Arabs refused to recognise Israel and it became the turn of the Israeli government itself to suffer from terrorist attacks when fedayeen (fanatics) from the Palestinian Arabs community attacked Israel. Such attacks later became more organised with the creation of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO). To the Palestinian Arabs, the area the Jews call Israel, will always be Palestine. To the Jews it is Israel. There have been very few years of peace in the region since 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My links are usually to official reports by the Mandatory to the League of Nations.  You are posting propaganda pieces.
> 
> The fact is that European Jews implemented a plan to ethnically cleanse the non-Jews and were successful.
> 
> There really can't be any question of the facts.
> 
> Why would anyone recognize the establishment of a state created through their expulsion from their homes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you saying this is not what happened?  You are so full of it.  Anyone can google it themselves to see.  The above which I linked to is completely accurate and truthful.  WHO do you think you're fooling?
Click to expand...


It's propaganda it's not accurate at all.  I provided a link to a scholarly work, not propaganda.


----------



## montelatici

"In “1948 and After” (chapter 4), Benny Morris deals at greater length with the role played by Yosef Weitz, who was at the time director of the Jewish National Fund’s Lands Department. This man of noted Zionist convictions confided to his diary on 20 December 1940: “It must be clear that there is no room in the country for both people (...) the only solution is a Land of Israel, at least a western Land of Israel without Arabs. There is no room here for compromise. (...) There is no way but to transfer the Arabs from here to the neighbouring countries(...) Not one village must be left, not one (bedouin) tribe.”

Seven years later, Weitz found himself in a position to put this radical programme into effect. Already, in January 1948, he was orchestrating the expulsion of Palestinians from various parts of the country. In April he proposed - and obtained - the creation of “a body which would direct the Yishuv’s war with the aim of evicting as many Arabs as possible”. This body was unofficial at first, but was formalised at the end of August 1948 into the “Transfer Committee” which supervised the destruction of abandoned Arab villages and/or their repopulation with recent Jewish immigrants, in order to make any return of the refugees impossible. Its role was extended, in July, to take in the creation of Jewish settlements in the border areas.

Israel’s battle to bar the return of Palestinian exiles was also pursued on the diplomatic front. Here, as Henry Laurens noted in a review of the revisionist historians (12), “the opening- up, and the use, of the archives made it possible to revise a number of previously-held positions. Contrary to the widely held view, the Arab leaders were prepared for compromise.” As soon as the war ended, the Arab leadership was trying, within the context of the Lausanne Conference, to arrive at a general settlement based on Arab acceptance of the UN partition plan (Ilan Pappe gives a detailed account of their efforts (13)), in exchange for Israeli acceptance of a right of return for the refugees. Despite international pressure - with the United States to the fore - this enterprise was to founder on the intransigence of the Israeli authorities, particularly once the Jewish state had been admitted to the United Nations."

The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition


----------



## Beelzebub

ChrisL said:


> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> The British - very pointedly - refused to hand over a state or a territory to the Zionist organisations, as that had never been the deal, and was only foisted upon the world by Zionist terrorists.  With US & Russian support the UN then ratified what had already been done by force of arms, and granted a state to those same terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?
> 
> If so - then I disagree.  By what authority?  Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?
> 
> I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).
> 
> The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.
> 
> In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They didn't want to give it up to either side, and they were made to on a mandate.  It doesn't change the facts.
Click to expand...



They were not made to.
They were offered - asked - maybe pleaded with - to extend the mandate and continue British control of the region by the UN, but refused, as there was no good end in sight with all the terrorist activity by the Jewish immigrants and US agitating against British overseas influence, and what with having no money to fund the enterprise (with no offers from anyone to pay).

So Britain left.  It did not hand over the land.  It did not agree to set up a Zionist state.  It did not facilitate the Zionist state.  It just failed to prevent it.

I have little doubt that Britain fully expected Zionism to get its comeuppance from the surrounding arab states / tribes soon after, which would have had some poetic justice (Create a state through invasion and the sword / Die by the sword).  But Britain was against the Zionist enterprise.  If compromised by elements in Britain who ran their own agenda.


----------



## Daniyel

montelatici said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> THIS is all that matters.  The "ancient claims" mean nothing.
> 
> 
> The Jews were GIVEN the state of Israel, which the Arabs did not like, fought with them over it, and LOST.  End of story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you just spout propaganda?  Are really that thick that you believe we don't have access to the facts?
> 
> For example:
> 
> "Jewish leadership begged the local Palestinian Arabs not to abandon their homes"
> 
> Do you realize what a bunch of horseshit that is?
> 
> The facts:
> 
> " a report prepared by the intelligence services of the Israeli army, dated 30 June 1948 and entitled “The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948”. This document sets at 391,000 the number of Palestinians who had already left the territory that was by then in the hands of Israel, and evaluates the various factors that had prompted their decisions to leave. “At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations.” To this figure, the report’s compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which “directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration”. A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to “fears” and “a crisis of confidence” affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases..."
> 
> 
> The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It isn't propaganda, but your links are certainly propaganda.  Here is another link with the same exact information because this is EXACTLY how it happened.  Also, this is an unbiased link.  Too bad for you that Israel won.  That's that.  They won.  The land is theirs.  End of story.
> 
> Palestine 1918 to 1948
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1947, the newly formed United Nations accepted the idea to partition Palestine into a zone for the Jews (Israel) and a zone for the Arabs (Palestine). With this United Nations proposal, the British withdrew from the region on May 14th 1948. Almost immediately, Israel was attacked by Arab nations that surrounded in a war that lasted from May 1948 to January 1949. Palestinian Arabs refused to recognise Israel and it became the turn of the Israeli government itself to suffer from terrorist attacks when fedayeen (fanatics) from the Palestinian Arabs community attacked Israel. Such attacks later became more organised with the creation of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO). To the Palestinian Arabs, the area the Jews call Israel, will always be Palestine. To the Jews it is Israel. There have been very few years of peace in the region since 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My links are usually to official reports by the Mandatory to the League of Nations.  You are posting propaganda pieces.
> 
> The fact is that European Jews implemented a plan to ethnically cleanse the non-Jews and were successful.
> 
> There really can't be any question of the facts.
> 
> Why would anyone recognize the establishment of a state created through their expulsion from their homes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you saying this is not what happened?  You are so full of it.  Anyone can google it themselves to see.  The above which I linked to is completely accurate and truthful.  WHO do you think you're fooling?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's propaganda it's not accurate at all.  I provided a link to a scholarly work, not propaganda.
Click to expand...

Scholarly work? its a bunch of crap posted on Youtube like every random moron can do - and does - bringing pictures like from Sefad battle during the War of Independence when the Arab hostiles [Arab Legion(of Palestinians), and Syrians] attacked a 4,000 city - Jewish one of course - completely unarmed, when the Haganah forces came miraculously to aid Sefad at the last minute, and won the Arab hostiles, or for example quoting Mordecai Maklef FROM Haifa ordering IDF to retaliate the Fadeyeen Palestinian raiders who slaughtered, stole, and rape hundreds of Jews, it happened in Hebron, Jerusalem, and many small Jewish settlements.
This is a very poor propaganda-ad, when first you read about something you never heard of, so you get curious, next you see a baby crying because mommy taking the louse out of his hair, but on first thought you think hey why is he crying and of course you see a picture of a soldier dressed like the SS, black uniforms [in the middle of the desert] heavily armed with guns Israel didn't have but who cares its for killing Palestinians so its fine to write the 'ZIONIST COMMANDO' - I can go on explaining why this is a propaganda, and a lie, but lets be honest montelitici, this video is probably yours, correct?


----------



## Penelope

Kondor3 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> TBH, The fascist Zionist are the problem in the world today.  Middle America, we aren't even taking care of the America we have as we are too invested in the ME for Israel and SA and our neocons who love war.
> 
> I for one do not want 1 cent of my tax dollars going to Israel anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, the majority of voting taxpayers who DO support Israel, thank you for your tax dollars, tasked for that purpose.
Click to expand...


Many  taxpayers do not know we are paying Israel aid and supplying extra money for weapons. and some don't even know where Israel is.


----------



## ChrisL

Beelzebub said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> The British - very pointedly - refused to hand over a state or a territory to the Zionist organisations, as that had never been the deal, and was only foisted upon the world by Zionist terrorists.  With US & Russian support the UN then ratified what had already been done by force of arms, and granted a state to those same terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?
> 
> If so - then I disagree.  By what authority?  Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?
> 
> I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).
> 
> The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.
> 
> In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They didn't want to give it up to either side, and they were made to on a mandate.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They were not made to.
> They were offered - asked - maybe pleaded with - to extend the mandate and continue British control of the region by the UN, but refused, as there was no good end in sight with all the terrorist activity by the Jewish immigrants and US agitating against British overseas influence, and what with having no money to fund the enterprise (with no offers from anyone to pay).
> 
> So Britain left.  It did not hand over the land.  It did not agree to set up a Zionist state.  It did not facilitate the Zionist state.  It just failed to prevent it.
> 
> I have little doubt that Britain fully expected Zionism to get its comeuppance from the surrounding arab states / tribes soon after, which would have had some poetic justice (Create a state through invasion and the sword / Die by the sword).  But Britain was against the Zionist enterprise.  If compromised by elements in Britain who ran their own agenda.
Click to expand...


The UN set it up as a resolution mandate.  It does not matter who agreed and who didn't agree.  What matters is that Israel "stole" nothing.  That is an outright lie.


----------



## Kondor3

Penelope said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> TBH, The fascist Zionist are the problem in the world today.  Middle America, we aren't even taking care of the America we have as we are too invested in the ME for Israel and SA and our neocons who love war.
> 
> I for one do not want 1 cent of my tax dollars going to Israel anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, the majority of voting taxpayers who DO support Israel, thank you for your tax dollars, tasked for that purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many  taxpayers do not know we are paying Israel aid and supplying extra money for weapons. and some don't even know where Israel is.
Click to expand...

Feel free to continue to believe that, if that comforts you.


----------



## montelatici

Daniyel said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you just spout propaganda?  Are really that thick that you believe we don't have access to the facts?
> 
> For example:
> 
> "Jewish leadership begged the local Palestinian Arabs not to abandon their homes"
> 
> Do you realize what a bunch of horseshit that is?
> 
> The facts:
> 
> " a report prepared by the intelligence services of the Israeli army, dated 30 June 1948 and entitled “The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948”. This document sets at 391,000 the number of Palestinians who had already left the territory that was by then in the hands of Israel, and evaluates the various factors that had prompted their decisions to leave. “At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations.” To this figure, the report’s compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which “directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration”. A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to “fears” and “a crisis of confidence” affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases..."
> 
> 
> The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't propaganda, but your links are certainly propaganda.  Here is another link with the same exact information because this is EXACTLY how it happened.  Also, this is an unbiased link.  Too bad for you that Israel won.  That's that.  They won.  The land is theirs.  End of story.
> 
> Palestine 1918 to 1948
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1947, the newly formed United Nations accepted the idea to partition Palestine into a zone for the Jews (Israel) and a zone for the Arabs (Palestine). With this United Nations proposal, the British withdrew from the region on May 14th 1948. Almost immediately, Israel was attacked by Arab nations that surrounded in a war that lasted from May 1948 to January 1949. Palestinian Arabs refused to recognise Israel and it became the turn of the Israeli government itself to suffer from terrorist attacks when fedayeen (fanatics) from the Palestinian Arabs community attacked Israel. Such attacks later became more organised with the creation of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO). To the Palestinian Arabs, the area the Jews call Israel, will always be Palestine. To the Jews it is Israel. There have been very few years of peace in the region since 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My links are usually to official reports by the Mandatory to the League of Nations.  You are posting propaganda pieces.
> 
> The fact is that European Jews implemented a plan to ethnically cleanse the non-Jews and were successful.
> 
> There really can't be any question of the facts.
> 
> Why would anyone recognize the establishment of a state created through their expulsion from their homes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you saying this is not what happened?  You are so full of it.  Anyone can google it themselves to see.  The above which I linked to is completely accurate and truthful.  WHO do you think you're fooling?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's propaganda it's not accurate at all.  I provided a link to a scholarly work, not propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Scholarly work? its a bunch of crap posted on Youtube like every random moron can do - and does - bringing pictures like from Sefad battle during the War of Independence when the Arab hostiles [Arab Legion(of Palestinians), and Syrians] attacked a 4,000 city - Jewish one of course - completely unarmed, when the Haganah forces came miraculously to aid Sefad at the last minute, and won the Arab hostiles, or for example quoting Mordecai Maklef FROM Haifa ordering IDF to retaliate the Fadeyeen Palestinian raiders who slaughtered, stole, and rape hundreds of Jews, it happened in Hebron, Jerusalem, and many small Jewish settlements.
> This is a very poor propaganda-ad, when first you read about something you never heard of, so you get curious, next you see a baby crying because mommy taking the louse out of his hair, but on first thought you think hey why is he crying and of course you see a picture of a soldier dressed like the SS, black uniforms [in the middle of the desert] heavily armed with guns Israel didn't have but who cares its for killing Palestinians so its fine to write the 'ZIONIST COMMANDO' - I can go on explaining why this is a propaganda, and a lie, but lets be honest montelitici, this video is probably yours, correct?
Click to expand...



It is from Monde Diplomatique, a respected and scholarly publication.  You believe the fairy tales that your Zionist ancestors made up to cover up the fact that they came from another continent and stole the land from the people who lived there.  

Let's get down to facts.  Prior to 1850 there were a handful of Jews in Palestine and hundreds of thousands of Christians and Muslims.  A large number of European Jews went to Palestine. Now the Christians and Muslims in Palestine, while outnumbering Jews, are ruled by Jews.  I think the facts sspeak for themselves.


----------



## montelatici

ChrisL said:


> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> The British - very pointedly - refused to hand over a state or a territory to the Zionist organisations, as that had never been the deal, and was only foisted upon the world by Zionist terrorists.  With US & Russian support the UN then ratified what had already been done by force of arms, and granted a state to those same terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?
> 
> If so - then I disagree.  By what authority?  Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?
> 
> I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).
> 
> The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.
> 
> In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They didn't want to give it up to either side, and they were made to on a mandate.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They were not made to.
> They were offered - asked - maybe pleaded with - to extend the mandate and continue British control of the region by the UN, but refused, as there was no good end in sight with all the terrorist activity by the Jewish immigrants and US agitating against British overseas influence, and what with having no money to fund the enterprise (with no offers from anyone to pay).
> 
> So Britain left.  It did not hand over the land.  It did not agree to set up a Zionist state.  It did not facilitate the Zionist state.  It just failed to prevent it.
> 
> I have little doubt that Britain fully expected Zionism to get its comeuppance from the surrounding arab states / tribes soon after, which would have had some poetic justice (Create a state through invasion and the sword / Die by the sword).  But Britain was against the Zionist enterprise.  If compromised by elements in Britain who ran their own agenda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The UN set it up as a resolution mandate.  It does not matter who agreed and who didn't agree.  What matters is that Israel "stole" nothing.  That is an outright lie.
Click to expand...


Of course they stole the land.  There were people living on the land and they were ethnically cleansed.  The Pope gave the Americas to Spain and Portugal, the Spanish and Portuguese stole the land from the Native Americans.  Same thing.


----------



## Penelope

Kondor3 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> TBH, The fascist Zionist are the problem in the world today.  Middle America, we aren't even taking care of the America we have as we are too invested in the ME for Israel and SA and our neocons who love war.
> 
> I for one do not want 1 cent of my tax dollars going to Israel anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, the majority of voting taxpayers who DO support Israel, thank you for your tax dollars, tasked for that purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many  taxpayers do not know we are paying Israel aid and supplying extra money for weapons. and some don't even know where Israel is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Feel free to continue to believe that, if that comforts you.
Click to expand...


I find it to be so, and no its not comforting, as I wish more people were informed about what is happening in Israel, and not just listen to the propaganda on Fox for an hour here and there. I know I was taken into the propaganda for way too long.


----------



## Penelope

ChrisL said:


> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> The British - very pointedly - refused to hand over a state or a territory to the Zionist organisations, as that had never been the deal, and was only foisted upon the world by Zionist terrorists.  With US & Russian support the UN then ratified what had already been done by force of arms, and granted a state to those same terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?
> 
> If so - then I disagree.  By what authority?  Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?
> 
> I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).
> 
> The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.
> 
> In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They didn't want to give it up to either side, and they were made to on a mandate.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They were not made to.
> They were offered - asked - maybe pleaded with - to extend the mandate and continue British control of the region by the UN, but refused, as there was no good end in sight with all the terrorist activity by the Jewish immigrants and US agitating against British overseas influence, and what with having no money to fund the enterprise (with no offers from anyone to pay).
> 
> So Britain left.  It did not hand over the land.  It did not agree to set up a Zionist state.  It did not facilitate the Zionist state.  It just failed to prevent it.
> 
> I have little doubt that Britain fully expected Zionism to get its comeuppance from the surrounding arab states / tribes soon after, which would have had some poetic justice (Create a state through invasion and the sword / Die by the sword).  But Britain was against the Zionist enterprise.  If compromised by elements in Britain who ran their own agenda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The UN set it up as a resolution mandate.  It does not matter who agreed and who didn't agree.  What matters is that Israel "stole" nothing.  That is an outright lie.
Click to expand...


Maybe you should check out the mandate again , and look at the division lines. How can you even make such a statement.


----------



## Hossfly

Coyote said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Land has shifted back and forth over the centuries...
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. Just as it has since 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...If people have been living on land for generations - it is theirs for all effective purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed. Just ask the 2nd and 3rd and 4th -generation Israelis now in possession of that land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree - when you get to that point, the original owners are dead and there is no sense in displacing people.  But the land theft that occurred in 1967 and later - the original people are still alive, and return of the land or compensation should be addressed as well as a complete stop to more taking of land through "settlements".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right of Return will no longer work, in connection with 1948-1949.
> 
> Return to the 1967 borders will no longer work, in connection with Israeli security and safety.
> 
> Compensation has marvelous possibilities.
> 
> *But there is no longer enough land with which to make-up a sustainable nation-state.*
> 
> That leaves population transfer - relocation - as the only practical outcome.
> 
> I know that this does not sit well, but the Losing Side is just going to have to suck it up, eventually, and move on.
> 
> If they did so voluntarily and with the blessing and large-scale assistance of the outside world, that would be best.
> 
> But, sooner or later, it's going to happen.
> 
> The Palestinians might as well leverage that as best they can, while they still can.
> 
> I sense time running out for the Palestinians to get anything whatsoever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes there is.
> 
> Start negotiations at the 1967 borders and negotiate landswaps.
> 
> Israel needs to give up some things too.
Click to expand...

Where exactly are there any '67 borders? I can't seem to find them on a map.


----------



## Coyote

Hossfly said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Land has shifted back and forth over the centuries...
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. Just as it has since 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...If people have been living on land for generations - it is theirs for all effective purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed. Just ask the 2nd and 3rd and 4th -generation Israelis now in possession of that land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree - when you get to that point, the original owners are dead and there is no sense in displacing people.  But the land theft that occurred in 1967 and later - the original people are still alive, and return of the land or compensation should be addressed as well as a complete stop to more taking of land through "settlements".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right of Return will no longer work, in connection with 1948-1949.
> 
> Return to the 1967 borders will no longer work, in connection with Israeli security and safety.
> 
> Compensation has marvelous possibilities.
> 
> *But there is no longer enough land with which to make-up a sustainable nation-state.*
> 
> That leaves population transfer - relocation - as the only practical outcome.
> 
> I know that this does not sit well, but the Losing Side is just going to have to suck it up, eventually, and move on.
> 
> If they did so voluntarily and with the blessing and large-scale assistance of the outside world, that would be best.
> 
> But, sooner or later, it's going to happen.
> 
> The Palestinians might as well leverage that as best they can, while they still can.
> 
> I sense time running out for the Palestinians to get anything whatsoever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes there is.
> 
> Start negotiations at the 1967 borders and negotiate landswaps.
> 
> Israel needs to give up some things too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where exactly are there any '67 borders? I can't seem to find them on a map.
Click to expand...


Green Line Israel - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The Green Line is often referred to as the "pre-1967 borders", the "1967 borders" by the United States president Barack Obama,[2] Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas,[3] and by the United Nations in informal texts[4] and in the text of UN GA Resolutions.[5]


----------



## Coyote

*Lets stick to the topic guys.*


----------



## Hossfly

Coyote said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. Just as it has since 1948.
> 
> Indeed. Just ask the 2nd and 3rd and 4th -generation Israelis now in possession of that land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agree - when you get to that point, the original owners are dead and there is no sense in displacing people.  But the land theft that occurred in 1967 and later - the original people are still alive, and return of the land or compensation should be addressed as well as a complete stop to more taking of land through "settlements".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right of Return will no longer work, in connection with 1948-1949.
> 
> Return to the 1967 borders will no longer work, in connection with Israeli security and safety.
> 
> Compensation has marvelous possibilities.
> 
> *But there is no longer enough land with which to make-up a sustainable nation-state.*
> 
> That leaves population transfer - relocation - as the only practical outcome.
> 
> I know that this does not sit well, but the Losing Side is just going to have to suck it up, eventually, and move on.
> 
> If they did so voluntarily and with the blessing and large-scale assistance of the outside world, that would be best.
> 
> But, sooner or later, it's going to happen.
> 
> The Palestinians might as well leverage that as best they can, while they still can.
> 
> I sense time running out for the Palestinians to get anything whatsoever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes there is.
> 
> Start negotiations at the 1967 borders and negotiate landswaps.
> 
> Israel needs to give up some things too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where exactly are there any '67 borders? I can't seem to find them on a map.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Green Line Israel - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> The Green Line is often referred to as the "pre-1967 borders", the "1967 borders" by the United States president Barack Obama,[2] Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas,[3] and by the United Nations in informal texts[4] and in the text of UN GA Resolutions.[5]
Click to expand...

The Green Line is a demarcation line that is not and never was an International border. It merely shows where the front lines were at the end of fighting.


----------



## Penelope

ChrisL said:


> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> The British - very pointedly - refused to hand over a state or a territory to the Zionist organisations, as that had never been the deal, and was only foisted upon the world by Zionist terrorists.  With US & Russian support the UN then ratified what had already been done by force of arms, and granted a state to those same terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?
> 
> If so - then I disagree.  By what authority?  Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?
> 
> I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).
> 
> The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.
> 
> In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They didn't want to give it up to either side, and they were made to on a mandate.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They were not made to.
> They were offered - asked - maybe pleaded with - to extend the mandate and continue British control of the region by the UN, but refused, as there was no good end in sight with all the terrorist activity by the Jewish immigrants and US agitating against British overseas influence, and what with having no money to fund the enterprise (with no offers from anyone to pay).
> 
> So Britain left.  It did not hand over the land.  It did not agree to set up a Zionist state.  It did not facilitate the Zionist state.  It just failed to prevent it.
> 
> I have little doubt that Britain fully expected Zionism to get its comeuppance from the surrounding arab states / tribes soon after, which would have had some poetic justice (Create a state through invasion and the sword / Die by the sword).  But Britain was against the Zionist enterprise.  If compromised by elements in Britain who ran their own agenda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The UN set it up as a resolution mandate.  It does not matter who agreed and who didn't agree.  What matters is that Israel "stole" nothing.  That is an outright lie.
Click to expand...


No its not, and they are continuously stealing the Pals land, why do you think everyone is so upset about the 2400 new builds they are starting on. Thieves. plan and simple.


----------



## Coyote

Hossfly said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Agree - when you get to that point, the original owners are dead and there is no sense in displacing people.  But the land theft that occurred in 1967 and later - the original people are still alive, and return of the land or compensation should be addressed as well as a complete stop to more taking of land through "settlements".
> 
> 
> 
> Right of Return will no longer work, in connection with 1948-1949.
> 
> Return to the 1967 borders will no longer work, in connection with Israeli security and safety.
> 
> Compensation has marvelous possibilities.
> 
> *But there is no longer enough land with which to make-up a sustainable nation-state.*
> 
> That leaves population transfer - relocation - as the only practical outcome.
> 
> I know that this does not sit well, but the Losing Side is just going to have to suck it up, eventually, and move on.
> 
> If they did so voluntarily and with the blessing and large-scale assistance of the outside world, that would be best.
> 
> But, sooner or later, it's going to happen.
> 
> The Palestinians might as well leverage that as best they can, while they still can.
> 
> I sense time running out for the Palestinians to get anything whatsoever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes there is.
> 
> Start negotiations at the 1967 borders and negotiate landswaps.
> 
> Israel needs to give up some things too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where exactly are there any '67 borders? I can't seem to find them on a map.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Green Line Israel - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> The Green Line is often referred to as the "pre-1967 borders", the "1967 borders" by the United States president Barack Obama,[2] Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas,[3] and by the United Nations in informal texts[4] and in the text of UN GA Resolutions.[5]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Green Line is a demarcation line that is not and never was an International border. It merely shows where the front lines were at the end of fighting.
Click to expand...


It is what is referred to as the 1967 borders.


----------



## Hossfly

Coyote said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right of Return will no longer work, in connection with 1948-1949.
> 
> Return to the 1967 borders will no longer work, in connection with Israeli security and safety.
> 
> Compensation has marvelous possibilities.
> 
> *But there is no longer enough land with which to make-up a sustainable nation-state.*
> 
> That leaves population transfer - relocation - as the only practical outcome.
> 
> I know that this does not sit well, but the Losing Side is just going to have to suck it up, eventually, and move on.
> 
> If they did so voluntarily and with the blessing and large-scale assistance of the outside world, that would be best.
> 
> But, sooner or later, it's going to happen.
> 
> The Palestinians might as well leverage that as best they can, while they still can.
> 
> I sense time running out for the Palestinians to get anything whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes there is.
> 
> Start negotiations at the 1967 borders and negotiate landswaps.
> 
> Israel needs to give up some things too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where exactly are there any '67 borders? I can't seem to find them on a map.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Green Line Israel - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> The Green Line is often referred to as the "pre-1967 borders", the "1967 borders" by the United States president Barack Obama,[2] Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas,[3] and by the United Nations in informal texts[4] and in the text of UN GA Resolutions.[5]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Green Line is a demarcation line that is not and never was an International border. It merely shows where the front lines were at the end of fighting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is what is referred to as the 1967 borders.
Click to expand...

Only by the Arabs and not by the Israelis.

The term Green Line is used to refer to the 1949 Armistice lines established between Israel and its neighbours (Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon andSyria) after the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.                            Demarcation line - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## montelatici

Well, why doesn't Israel annex all of Palestine?  What's the problem?


----------



## Hossfly

montelatici said:


> Well, why doesn't Israel annex all of Palestine?  What's the problem?


Waiting to see if BDS starts hurting. Then, annexation.


----------



## Daniyel

montelatici said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't propaganda, but your links are certainly propaganda.  Here is another link with the same exact information because this is EXACTLY how it happened.  Also, this is an unbiased link.  Too bad for you that Israel won.  That's that.  They won.  The land is theirs.  End of story.
> 
> Palestine 1918 to 1948
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My links are usually to official reports by the Mandatory to the League of Nations.  You are posting propaganda pieces.
> 
> The fact is that European Jews implemented a plan to ethnically cleanse the non-Jews and were successful.
> 
> There really can't be any question of the facts.
> 
> Why would anyone recognize the establishment of a state created through their expulsion from their homes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you saying this is not what happened?  You are so full of it.  Anyone can google it themselves to see.  The above which I linked to is completely accurate and truthful.  WHO do you think you're fooling?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's propaganda it's not accurate at all.  I provided a link to a scholarly work, not propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Scholarly work? its a bunch of crap posted on Youtube like every random moron can do - and does - bringing pictures like from Sefad battle during the War of Independence when the Arab hostiles [Arab Legion(of Palestinians), and Syrians] attacked a 4,000 city - Jewish one of course - completely unarmed, when the Haganah forces came miraculously to aid Sefad at the last minute, and won the Arab hostiles, or for example quoting Mordecai Maklef FROM Haifa ordering IDF to retaliate the Fadeyeen Palestinian raiders who slaughtered, stole, and rape hundreds of Jews, it happened in Hebron, Jerusalem, and many small Jewish settlements.
> This is a very poor propaganda-ad, when first you read about something you never heard of, so you get curious, next you see a baby crying because mommy taking the louse out of his hair, but on first thought you think hey why is he crying and of course you see a picture of a soldier dressed like the SS, black uniforms [in the middle of the desert] heavily armed with guns Israel didn't have but who cares its for killing Palestinians so its fine to write the 'ZIONIST COMMANDO' - I can go on explaining why this is a propaganda, and a lie, but lets be honest montelitici, this video is probably yours, correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It is from Monde Diplomatique, a respected and scholarly publication.  You believe the fairy tales that your Zionist ancestors made up to cover up the fact that they came from another continent and stole the land from the people who lived there.
> 
> Let's get down to facts.  Prior to 1850 there were a handful of Jews in Palestine and hundreds of thousands of Christians and Muslims.  A large number of European Jews went to Palestine. Now the Christians and Muslims in Palestine, while outnumbering Jews, are ruled by Jews.  I think the facts sspeak for themselves.
Click to expand...

Sorry I'm not following, a handful of Jews over hundreds of thousands of Christians and Muslims? and you really think they were ruled by Jews? spare me the world is flat academics.
What year do you consider the 'prior to 1800'? The Jews never left but were always under upraising Muslim migration ruled by Muslims, the Christians did not show any significant migration past the crusaders, and wasn't necessarily ARAB Christians, lets let the facts speak for themselves.
Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
The Jews were always vulnerable to the attacks from other religions, always been because Jews did not have any form sovereignty, believing otherwise is fairy-tales for shmucks.


----------



## ChrisL

Daniyel said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you just spout propaganda?  Are really that thick that you believe we don't have access to the facts?
> 
> For example:
> 
> "Jewish leadership begged the local Palestinian Arabs not to abandon their homes"
> 
> Do you realize what a bunch of horseshit that is?
> 
> The facts:
> 
> " a report prepared by the intelligence services of the Israeli army, dated 30 June 1948 and entitled “The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948”. This document sets at 391,000 the number of Palestinians who had already left the territory that was by then in the hands of Israel, and evaluates the various factors that had prompted their decisions to leave. “At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations.” To this figure, the report’s compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which “directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration”. A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to “fears” and “a crisis of confidence” affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases..."
> 
> 
> The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't propaganda, but your links are certainly propaganda.  Here is another link with the same exact information because this is EXACTLY how it happened.  Also, this is an unbiased link.  Too bad for you that Israel won.  That's that.  They won.  The land is theirs.  End of story.
> 
> Palestine 1918 to 1948
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1947, the newly formed United Nations accepted the idea to partition Palestine into a zone for the Jews (Israel) and a zone for the Arabs (Palestine). With this United Nations proposal, the British withdrew from the region on May 14th 1948. Almost immediately, Israel was attacked by Arab nations that surrounded in a war that lasted from May 1948 to January 1949. Palestinian Arabs refused to recognise Israel and it became the turn of the Israeli government itself to suffer from terrorist attacks when fedayeen (fanatics) from the Palestinian Arabs community attacked Israel. Such attacks later became more organised with the creation of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO). To the Palestinian Arabs, the area the Jews call Israel, will always be Palestine. To the Jews it is Israel. There have been very few years of peace in the region since 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My links are usually to official reports by the Mandatory to the League of Nations.  You are posting propaganda pieces.
> 
> The fact is that European Jews implemented a plan to ethnically cleanse the non-Jews and were successful.
> 
> There really can't be any question of the facts.
> 
> Why would anyone recognize the establishment of a state created through their expulsion from their homes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you saying this is not what happened?  You are so full of it.  Anyone can google it themselves to see.  The above which I linked to is completely accurate and truthful.  WHO do you think you're fooling?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's propaganda it's not accurate at all.  I provided a link to a scholarly work, not propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Scholarly work? its a bunch of crap posted on Youtube like every random moron can do - and does - bringing pictures like from Sefad battle during the War of Independence when the Arab hostiles [Arab Legion(of Palestinians), and Syrians] attacked a 4,000 city - Jewish one of course - completely unarmed, when the Haganah forces came miraculously to aid Sefad at the last minute, and won the Arab hostiles, or for example quoting Mordecai Maklef FROM Haifa ordering IDF to retaliate the Fadeyeen Palestinian raiders who slaughtered, stole, and rape hundreds of Jews, it happened in Hebron, Jerusalem, and many small Jewish settlements.
> This is a very poor propaganda-ad, when first you read about something you never heard of, so you get curious, next you see a baby crying because mommy taking the louse out of his hair, but on first thought you think hey why is he crying and of course you see a picture of a soldier dressed like the SS, black uniforms [in the middle of the desert] heavily armed with guns Israel didn't have but who cares its for killing Palestinians so its fine to write the 'ZIONIST COMMANDO' - I can go on explaining why this is a propaganda, and a lie, but lets be honest montelitici, this video is probably yours, correct?
Click to expand...


Exactly, all of his sources have been based on propaganda sites.  And a YouTube video?    I can't believe he would refer to it as "scholarly work."  Another one who seems to have an agenda.


----------



## aris2chat

Coyote said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. Just as it has since 1948.
> 
> Indeed. Just ask the 2nd and 3rd and 4th -generation Israelis now in possession of that land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agree - when you get to that point, the original owners are dead and there is no sense in displacing people.  But the land theft that occurred in 1967 and later - the original people are still alive, and return of the land or compensation should be addressed as well as a complete stop to more taking of land through "settlements".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right of Return will no longer work, in connection with 1948-1949.
> 
> Return to the 1967 borders will no longer work, in connection with Israeli security and safety.
> 
> Compensation has marvelous possibilities.
> 
> *But there is no longer enough land with which to make-up a sustainable nation-state.*
> 
> That leaves population transfer - relocation - as the only practical outcome.
> 
> I know that this does not sit well, but the Losing Side is just going to have to suck it up, eventually, and move on.
> 
> If they did so voluntarily and with the blessing and large-scale assistance of the outside world, that would be best.
> 
> But, sooner or later, it's going to happen.
> 
> The Palestinians might as well leverage that as best they can, while they still can.
> 
> I sense time running out for the Palestinians to get anything whatsoever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes there is.
> 
> Start negotiations at the 1967 borders and negotiate landswaps.
> 
> Israel needs to give up some things too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where exactly are there any '67 borders? I can't seem to find them on a map.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Green Line Israel - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> The Green Line is often referred to as the "pre-1967 borders", the "1967 borders" by the United States president Barack Obama,[2] Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas,[3] and by the United Nations in informal texts[4] and in the text of UN GA Resolutions.[5]
Click to expand...


just a cease fire line not a national border.  There was no palestine to have a border with.  Jordan and egypt occupied territory they invaded in their attack on Israel.


----------



## ChrisL

Penelope said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> TBH, The fascist Zionist are the problem in the world today.  Middle America, we aren't even taking care of the America we have as we are too invested in the ME for Israel and SA and our neocons who love war.
> 
> I for one do not want 1 cent of my tax dollars going to Israel anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, the majority of voting taxpayers who DO support Israel, thank you for your tax dollars, tasked for that purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many  taxpayers do not know we are paying Israel aid and supplying extra money for weapons. and some don't even know where Israel is.
Click to expand...


Anyone can find out online.  It's not a secret.


----------



## ChrisL

Penelope said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> The British - very pointedly - refused to hand over a state or a territory to the Zionist organisations, as that had never been the deal, and was only foisted upon the world by Zionist terrorists.  With US & Russian support the UN then ratified what had already been done by force of arms, and granted a state to those same terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?
> 
> If so - then I disagree.  By what authority?  Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?
> 
> I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).
> 
> The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.
> 
> In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They didn't want to give it up to either side, and they were made to on a mandate.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They were not made to.
> They were offered - asked - maybe pleaded with - to extend the mandate and continue British control of the region by the UN, but refused, as there was no good end in sight with all the terrorist activity by the Jewish immigrants and US agitating against British overseas influence, and what with having no money to fund the enterprise (with no offers from anyone to pay).
> 
> So Britain left.  It did not hand over the land.  It did not agree to set up a Zionist state.  It did not facilitate the Zionist state.  It just failed to prevent it.
> 
> I have little doubt that Britain fully expected Zionism to get its comeuppance from the surrounding arab states / tribes soon after, which would have had some poetic justice (Create a state through invasion and the sword / Die by the sword).  But Britain was against the Zionist enterprise.  If compromised by elements in Britain who ran their own agenda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The UN set it up as a resolution mandate.  It does not matter who agreed and who didn't agree.  What matters is that Israel "stole" nothing.  That is an outright lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No its not, and they are continuously stealing the Pals land, why do you think everyone is so upset about the 2400 new builds they are starting on. Thieves. plan and simple.
Click to expand...


  The only reason why they are there is because Israel ALLOWS them to be there.  Probably not for much longer though, and who could blame them?


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Land has shifted back and forth over the centuries...
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. Just as it has since 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...If people have been living on land for generations - it is theirs for all effective purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed. Just ask the 2nd and 3rd and 4th -generation Israelis now in possession of that land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem is, there are more non-Jews than Jews among the people the Jews have control over. That almost never works out well for the minority in the long run.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians only have two choices left make peace under the UN charter or be wiped out in the fullness of time. They need to acquire weapons for the demographics to be in their favour and you cant hide tanks when you are occupied. So how will increased population help them when they outstrip the natural resources and destroy the land. Then nature will start killing the Palestinians to level the playing field again. The problem with gaza is they are surrounded by armed soldiers who can just stand back and fire from long range at targets pinpointed by satellite technology. One hamas mine under a Jewish school and all of gaza will be flattened with the world cheering on the Israelis. And you will be in hiding because no muslim would be ever safe again in the west.
Click to expand...


Ask the non-whites in South Africa how they did it, without tanks.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> The British - very pointedly - refused to hand over a state or a territory to the Zionist organisations, as that had never been the deal, and was only foisted upon the world by Zionist terrorists.  With US & Russian support the UN then ratified what had already been done by force of arms, and granted a state to those same terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't want to give it up to either side, and they were made to on a mandate.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They were not made to.
> They were offered - asked - maybe pleaded with - to extend the mandate and continue British control of the region by the UN, but refused, as there was no good end in sight with all the terrorist activity by the Jewish immigrants and US agitating against British overseas influence, and what with having no money to fund the enterprise (with no offers from anyone to pay).
> 
> So Britain left.  It did not hand over the land.  It did not agree to set up a Zionist state.  It did not facilitate the Zionist state.  It just failed to prevent it.
> 
> I have little doubt that Britain fully expected Zionism to get its comeuppance from the surrounding arab states / tribes soon after, which would have had some poetic justice (Create a state through invasion and the sword / Die by the sword).  But Britain was against the Zionist enterprise.  If compromised by elements in Britain who ran their own agenda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The UN set it up as a resolution mandate.  It does not matter who agreed and who didn't agree.  What matters is that Israel "stole" nothing.  That is an outright lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No its not, and they are continuously stealing the Pals land, why do you think everyone is so upset about the 2400 new builds they are starting on. Thieves. plan and simple.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only reason why they are there is because Israel ALLOWS them to be there.  Probably not for much longer though, and who could blame them?
Click to expand...


There's a price to pay for ethnic cleansing of indiginous peoples.  South Africa tried that with it's so-called African "homelands" - islands of semi-autonomous (resource poor) areas where the blacks could live seperate from the whites.  Stalin tried that when he forceably moved ethnic groups out of areas and ethnic-Russians into those areas to dilute populations.  It leaves a long term stain on the national character of a nation particularly when land theft is also involved as would be the case in West Bank and Gaza.  People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation and culture.  That is something the Jews themselves reiterate.  How can you then justify doing that to another people?  You can't.  Israel has been no angel in this affair either.  They need to stop the settlement building and both sides need t negotiate for a long term solution that most likely will involve two states  and land swaps.  I don't see any other way that would not produce a humanitarian nightmare by forcing a diaspora on a people that the Jews themselves experienced.  It's so ironic.


----------



## Coyote

Hossfly said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes there is.
> 
> Start negotiations at the 1967 borders and negotiate landswaps.
> 
> Israel needs to give up some things too.
> 
> 
> 
> Where exactly are there any '67 borders? I can't seem to find them on a map.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Green Line Israel - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> The Green Line is often referred to as the "pre-1967 borders", the "1967 borders" by the United States president Barack Obama,[2] Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas,[3] and by the United Nations in informal texts[4] and in the text of UN GA Resolutions.[5]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Green Line is a demarcation line that is not and never was an International border. It merely shows where the front lines were at the end of fighting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is what is referred to as the 1967 borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only by the Arabs and not by the Israelis.
> 
> The term Green Line is used to refer to the 1949 Armistice lines established between Israel and its neighbours (Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon andSyria) after the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.                            Demarcation line - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


From wikipedia:  The Green Line is often referred to as the "pre-1967 borders", the "1967 borders" by the United States president Barack Obama,[2] Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas,[3] *and by the United Nations in informal texts[4] and in the text of UN GA Resolutions*.[5]

Not just the Arabs.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Agree - when you get to that point, the original owners are dead and there is no sense in displacing people.  But the land theft that occurred in 1967 and later - the original people are still alive, and return of the land or compensation should be addressed as well as a complete stop to more taking of land through "settlements".
> 
> 
> 
> Right of Return will no longer work, in connection with 1948-1949.
> 
> Return to the 1967 borders will no longer work, in connection with Israeli security and safety.
> 
> Compensation has marvelous possibilities.
> 
> *But there is no longer enough land with which to make-up a sustainable nation-state.*
> 
> That leaves population transfer - relocation - as the only practical outcome.
> 
> I know that this does not sit well, but the Losing Side is just going to have to suck it up, eventually, and move on.
> 
> If they did so voluntarily and with the blessing and large-scale assistance of the outside world, that would be best.
> 
> But, sooner or later, it's going to happen.
> 
> The Palestinians might as well leverage that as best they can, while they still can.
> 
> I sense time running out for the Palestinians to get anything whatsoever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes there is.
> 
> Start negotiations at the 1967 borders and negotiate landswaps.
> 
> Israel needs to give up some things too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where exactly are there any '67 borders? I can't seem to find them on a map.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Green Line Israel - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> The Green Line is often referred to as the "pre-1967 borders", the "1967 borders" by the United States president Barack Obama,[2] Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas,[3] and by the United Nations in informal texts[4] and in the text of UN GA Resolutions.[5]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Green Line is a demarcation line that is not and never was an International border. It merely shows where the front lines were at the end of fighting.
Click to expand...

That is correct. The green line (also called the 1967 borders) were specifically* not* to be political or territorial borders.


----------



## montelatici

ChrisL said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't propaganda, but your links are certainly propaganda.  Here is another link with the same exact information because this is EXACTLY how it happened.  Also, this is an unbiased link.  Too bad for you that Israel won.  That's that.  They won.  The land is theirs.  End of story.
> 
> Palestine 1918 to 1948
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My links are usually to official reports by the Mandatory to the League of Nations.  You are posting propaganda pieces.
> 
> The fact is that European Jews implemented a plan to ethnically cleanse the non-Jews and were successful.
> 
> There really can't be any question of the facts.
> 
> Why would anyone recognize the establishment of a state created through their expulsion from their homes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you saying this is not what happened?  You are so full of it.  Anyone can google it themselves to see.  The above which I linked to is completely accurate and truthful.  WHO do you think you're fooling?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's propaganda it's not accurate at all.  I provided a link to a scholarly work, not propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Scholarly work? its a bunch of crap posted on Youtube like every random moron can do - and does - bringing pictures like from Sefad battle during the War of Independence when the Arab hostiles [Arab Legion(of Palestinians), and Syrians] attacked a 4,000 city - Jewish one of course - completely unarmed, when the Haganah forces came miraculously to aid Sefad at the last minute, and won the Arab hostiles, or for example quoting Mordecai Maklef FROM Haifa ordering IDF to retaliate the Fadeyeen Palestinian raiders who slaughtered, stole, and rape hundreds of Jews, it happened in Hebron, Jerusalem, and many small Jewish settlements.
> This is a very poor propaganda-ad, when first you read about something you never heard of, so you get curious, next you see a baby crying because mommy taking the louse out of his hair, but on first thought you think hey why is he crying and of course you see a picture of a soldier dressed like the SS, black uniforms [in the middle of the desert] heavily armed with guns Israel didn't have but who cares its for killing Palestinians so its fine to write the 'ZIONIST COMMANDO' - I can go on explaining why this is a propaganda, and a lie, but lets be honest montelitici, this video is probably yours, correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly, all of his sources have been based on propaganda sites.  And a YouTube video?    I can't believe he would refer to it as "scholarly work."  Another one who seems to have an agenda.
Click to expand...


Le Monde Diplomatique is a propaganda site?  It is clear who has an agenda, it is you brainwashed clowns that have only read Zionist propaganda.


----------



## aris2chat

montelatici said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> My links are usually to official reports by the Mandatory to the League of Nations.  You are posting propaganda pieces.
> 
> The fact is that European Jews implemented a plan to ethnically cleanse the non-Jews and were successful.
> 
> There really can't be any question of the facts.
> 
> Why would anyone recognize the establishment of a state created through their expulsion from their homes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying this is not what happened?  You are so full of it.  Anyone can google it themselves to see.  The above which I linked to is completely accurate and truthful.  WHO do you think you're fooling?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's propaganda it's not accurate at all.  I provided a link to a scholarly work, not propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Scholarly work? its a bunch of crap posted on Youtube like every random moron can do - and does - bringing pictures like from Sefad battle during the War of Independence when the Arab hostiles [Arab Legion(of Palestinians), and Syrians] attacked a 4,000 city - Jewish one of course - completely unarmed, when the Haganah forces came miraculously to aid Sefad at the last minute, and won the Arab hostiles, or for example quoting Mordecai Maklef FROM Haifa ordering IDF to retaliate the Fadeyeen Palestinian raiders who slaughtered, stole, and rape hundreds of Jews, it happened in Hebron, Jerusalem, and many small Jewish settlements.
> This is a very poor propaganda-ad, when first you read about something you never heard of, so you get curious, next you see a baby crying because mommy taking the louse out of his hair, but on first thought you think hey why is he crying and of course you see a picture of a soldier dressed like the SS, black uniforms [in the middle of the desert] heavily armed with guns Israel didn't have but who cares its for killing Palestinians so its fine to write the 'ZIONIST COMMANDO' - I can go on explaining why this is a propaganda, and a lie, but lets be honest montelitici, this video is probably yours, correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly, all of his sources have been based on propaganda sites.  And a YouTube video?    I can't believe he would refer to it as "scholarly work."  Another one who seems to have an agenda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Le Monde Diplomatique is a propaganda site?  It is clear who has an agenda, it is you brainwashed clowns that have only read Zionist propaganda.
Click to expand...



!!!!! you are so full of it !!!!!
About LMD - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't want to give it up to either side, and they were made to on a mandate.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were not made to.
> They were offered - asked - maybe pleaded with - to extend the mandate and continue British control of the region by the UN, but refused, as there was no good end in sight with all the terrorist activity by the Jewish immigrants and US agitating against British overseas influence, and what with having no money to fund the enterprise (with no offers from anyone to pay).
> 
> So Britain left.  It did not hand over the land.  It did not agree to set up a Zionist state.  It did not facilitate the Zionist state.  It just failed to prevent it.
> 
> I have little doubt that Britain fully expected Zionism to get its comeuppance from the surrounding arab states / tribes soon after, which would have had some poetic justice (Create a state through invasion and the sword / Die by the sword).  But Britain was against the Zionist enterprise.  If compromised by elements in Britain who ran their own agenda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The UN set it up as a resolution mandate.  It does not matter who agreed and who didn't agree.  What matters is that Israel "stole" nothing.  That is an outright lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No its not, and they are continuously stealing the Pals land, why do you think everyone is so upset about the 2400 new builds they are starting on. Thieves. plan and simple.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only reason why they are there is because Israel ALLOWS them to be there.  Probably not for much longer though, and who could blame them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's a price to pay for ethnic cleansing of indiginous peoples.  South Africa tried that with it's so-called African "homelands" - islands of semi-autonomous (resource poor) areas where the blacks could live seperate from the whites.  Stalin tried that when he forceably moved ethnic groups out of areas and ethnic-Russians into those areas to dilute populations.  It leaves a long term stain on the national character of a nation particularly when land theft is also involved as would be the case in West Bank and Gaza.  People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation and culture.  That is something the Jews themselves reiterate.  How can you then justify doing that to another people?  You can't.  Israel has been no angel in this affair either.  They need to stop the settlement building and both sides need t negotiate for a long term solution that most likely will involve two states  and land swaps.  I don't see any other way that would not produce a humanitarian nightmare by forcing a diaspora on a people that the Jews themselves experienced.  It's so ironic.
Click to expand...


There was no such thing as "Palestinians" before this conflict came to be.  There were only the occasional nomads passing through the area back then.  It was not inhabitable.  The Israelis MADE Israel/Gaza what it is today.  

The Truth about the Palestinian People

The 1948 Israeli War of Independence was between the neighboring Arab countries and the newly formed state of Israel. The Arab countries did not send troops to help the people that are today known as _"Palestinians"_ but rather they sent troops to drive the Jews into the sea. Most of the _"Palestinian Arabs"_ fled to avoid the fighting. Remember, in 1948 they were not referred to as _"Palestinians"_. This name was was created by the Soviet disinformation masters in 1964 when they created the _Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO)_. The term_"Palestinian People"_ as a description of Arabs in Palestine appeared for the first time in the preamble of the 1964 PLO Charter, drafted in Moscow. The Charter was affirmed by the first 422 members of the Palestinian National Council, handpicked by the KGB. This term was formally used by newspapers around the world after 1967.

United Nations Resolution 181 recommended a partition of the territory from the British Mandate for Palestine into two states - one for Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. But the rejection of partition by the Arabs left in place as the legally operative Mandate for Palestine, the 1924 Anglo-American Convention, and Article 80 of the United Nations Charter. All of the Arab countries objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against its creation. This was Israel's War of Independence in 1948. Despite their superior numbers, the Arab countries lost the war and the Palestinian state never materialized because of this loss. In the war that was waged, the territory allotted to be the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was divided between Israel and Jordan. The _"Palestinian Arabs"_ were rejected by every single Arab country, with the exception of the small percentage that ended up in refugee camps in Jordan where they remain to this day.


----------



## montelatici

aris2chat said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying this is not what happened?  You are so full of it.  Anyone can google it themselves to see.  The above which I linked to is completely accurate and truthful.  WHO do you think you're fooling?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's propaganda it's not accurate at all.  I provided a link to a scholarly work, not propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Scholarly work? its a bunch of crap posted on Youtube like every random moron can do - and does - bringing pictures like from Sefad battle during the War of Independence when the Arab hostiles [Arab Legion(of Palestinians), and Syrians] attacked a 4,000 city - Jewish one of course - completely unarmed, when the Haganah forces came miraculously to aid Sefad at the last minute, and won the Arab hostiles, or for example quoting Mordecai Maklef FROM Haifa ordering IDF to retaliate the Fadeyeen Palestinian raiders who slaughtered, stole, and rape hundreds of Jews, it happened in Hebron, Jerusalem, and many small Jewish settlements.
> This is a very poor propaganda-ad, when first you read about something you never heard of, so you get curious, next you see a baby crying because mommy taking the louse out of his hair, but on first thought you think hey why is he crying and of course you see a picture of a soldier dressed like the SS, black uniforms [in the middle of the desert] heavily armed with guns Israel didn't have but who cares its for killing Palestinians so its fine to write the 'ZIONIST COMMANDO' - I can go on explaining why this is a propaganda, and a lie, but lets be honest montelitici, this video is probably yours, correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly, all of his sources have been based on propaganda sites.  And a YouTube video?    I can't believe he would refer to it as "scholarly work."  Another one who seems to have an agenda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Le Monde Diplomatique is a propaganda site?  It is clear who has an agenda, it is you brainwashed clowns that have only read Zionist propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> !!!!! you are so full of it !!!!!
> About LMD - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition
Click to expand...


It is a respected publication.  You are the one that's full of it.

“_LMD_ provides a cool, reasoned, different view of the world’s most pressing issues” 
*New York Review of Books*


----------



## boedicca

The thread title is inaccurate.

A suggestion to correct it:

*Loons marinated in multiculturalism cannot tell the difference between good and evil.*


----------



## ChrisL

More from the link above. . . 

*The Modern Day Conflict*
​
From the 1948 Israeli War of Independence, _"Palestinian Arabs"_have been sacrificed as pawns by all other Arab countries as they are to this day. No other Arab country has ever offered to accept any of these people into their own countries even though they are well able to do so. To the Arab countries and the rest of the anti-Semitic world, the _"Palestinian Arabs"_ are useful only as a tool to exterminate Israel and the rest of the Jews in the Middle East. Otherwise, their welfare is of no concern to the rest of the Arab world.

What about the ingrained notion that the Palestinians are fighting for their ancient homeland annexed by the Jews? The truth about this matter has been so deliberately obscured that even to raise the issue seems strange to many people.

In the 1967 war, also known as the Six Day War, did Israel annex territory from a Palestinian nation? No, Israel did not take a single inch of territory from Palestine. That is because there is not, nor has there ever been, a Palestinian nation. Israel captured the West Bank and Eastern Jerusalem from Jordan's King Hussein and the Gaza Strip from Egypt, after they declared war against the Jewish State. It was only following the Six-day War in 1967 that Arab refugees living in these territories began identifying themselves as the _"Palestinian People"_because the global media labeled them as such. One cannot help but wonder why these Palestinians suddenly discovered a national identity after Israel won the war, but not during the _"Jordanian Occupation"_ or the _"Egyptian Occupation"_?


----------



## montelatici

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were not made to.
> They were offered - asked - maybe pleaded with - to extend the mandate and continue British control of the region by the UN, but refused, as there was no good end in sight with all the terrorist activity by the Jewish immigrants and US agitating against British overseas influence, and what with having no money to fund the enterprise (with no offers from anyone to pay).
> 
> So Britain left.  It did not hand over the land.  It did not agree to set up a Zionist state.  It did not facilitate the Zionist state.  It just failed to prevent it.
> 
> I have little doubt that Britain fully expected Zionism to get its comeuppance from the surrounding arab states / tribes soon after, which would have had some poetic justice (Create a state through invasion and the sword / Die by the sword).  But Britain was against the Zionist enterprise.  If compromised by elements in Britain who ran their own agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The UN set it up as a resolution mandate.  It does not matter who agreed and who didn't agree.  What matters is that Israel "stole" nothing.  That is an outright lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No its not, and they are continuously stealing the Pals land, why do you think everyone is so upset about the 2400 new builds they are starting on. Thieves. plan and simple.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only reason why they are there is because Israel ALLOWS them to be there.  Probably not for much longer though, and who could blame them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's a price to pay for ethnic cleansing of indiginous peoples.  South Africa tried that with it's so-called African "homelands" - islands of semi-autonomous (resource poor) areas where the blacks could live seperate from the whites.  Stalin tried that when he forceably moved ethnic groups out of areas and ethnic-Russians into those areas to dilute populations.  It leaves a long term stain on the national character of a nation particularly when land theft is also involved as would be the case in West Bank and Gaza.  People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation and culture.  That is something the Jews themselves reiterate.  How can you then justify doing that to another people?  You can't.  Israel has been no angel in this affair either.  They need to stop the settlement building and both sides need t negotiate for a long term solution that most likely will involve two states  and land swaps.  I don't see any other way that would not produce a humanitarian nightmare by forcing a diaspora on a people that the Jews themselves experienced.  It's so ironic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as "Palestinians" before this conflict came to be.  There were only the occasional nomads passing through the area back then.  It was not inhabitable.  The Israelis MADE Israel/Gaza what it is today.
> 
> The Truth about the Palestinian People
> 
> The 1948 Israeli War of Independence was between the neighboring Arab countries and the newly formed state of Israel. The Arab countries did not send troops to help the people that are today known as _"Palestinians"_ but rather they sent troops to drive the Jews into the sea. Most of the _"Palestinian Arabs"_ fled to avoid the fighting. Remember, in 1948 they were not referred to as _"Palestinians"_. This name was was created by the Soviet disinformation masters in 1964 when they created the _Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO)_. The term_"Palestinian People"_ as a description of Arabs in Palestine appeared for the first time in the preamble of the 1964 PLO Charter, drafted in Moscow. The Charter was affirmed by the first 422 members of the Palestinian National Council, handpicked by the KGB. This term was formally used by newspapers around the world after 1967.
> 
> United Nations Resolution 181 recommended a partition of the territory from the British Mandate for Palestine into two states - one for Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. But the rejection of partition by the Arabs left in place as the legally operative Mandate for Palestine, the 1924 Anglo-American Convention, and Article 80 of the United Nations Charter. All of the Arab countries objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against its creation. This was Israel's War of Independence in 1948. Despite their superior numbers, the Arab countries lost the war and the Palestinian state never materialized because of this loss. In the war that was waged, the territory allotted to be the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was divided between Israel and Jordan. The _"Palestinian Arabs"_ were rejected by every single Arab country, with the exception of the small percentage that ended up in refugee camps in Jordan where they remain to this day.
Click to expand...


LOL.  Repeating the Zionist propaganda. Nobody believes that crap anymore.  The Zionists didn't believe it either. Don't post propaganda, it's embarrassing.  It makes you look like a fool. 

"In 1891, Ha'am had made his first visit to the Jewish settlements in Palestine. It resulted in an important essay, The Truth from the Land of Israel. What distinguished his report from the gushing accounts of other Jewish visitors was the sober realism with which he noted the many problems. High among them was the existence of an indigenous population.* "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."*

David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian


----------



## ChrisL

montelatici said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UN set it up as a resolution mandate.  It does not matter who agreed and who didn't agree.  What matters is that Israel "stole" nothing.  That is an outright lie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No its not, and they are continuously stealing the Pals land, why do you think everyone is so upset about the 2400 new builds they are starting on. Thieves. plan and simple.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only reason why they are there is because Israel ALLOWS them to be there.  Probably not for much longer though, and who could blame them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's a price to pay for ethnic cleansing of indiginous peoples.  South Africa tried that with it's so-called African "homelands" - islands of semi-autonomous (resource poor) areas where the blacks could live seperate from the whites.  Stalin tried that when he forceably moved ethnic groups out of areas and ethnic-Russians into those areas to dilute populations.  It leaves a long term stain on the national character of a nation particularly when land theft is also involved as would be the case in West Bank and Gaza.  People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation and culture.  That is something the Jews themselves reiterate.  How can you then justify doing that to another people?  You can't.  Israel has been no angel in this affair either.  They need to stop the settlement building and both sides need t negotiate for a long term solution that most likely will involve two states  and land swaps.  I don't see any other way that would not produce a humanitarian nightmare by forcing a diaspora on a people that the Jews themselves experienced.  It's so ironic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as "Palestinians" before this conflict came to be.  There were only the occasional nomads passing through the area back then.  It was not inhabitable.  The Israelis MADE Israel/Gaza what it is today.
> 
> The Truth about the Palestinian People
> 
> The 1948 Israeli War of Independence was between the neighboring Arab countries and the newly formed state of Israel. The Arab countries did not send troops to help the people that are today known as _"Palestinians"_ but rather they sent troops to drive the Jews into the sea. Most of the _"Palestinian Arabs"_ fled to avoid the fighting. Remember, in 1948 they were not referred to as _"Palestinians"_. This name was was created by the Soviet disinformation masters in 1964 when they created the _Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO)_. The term_"Palestinian People"_ as a description of Arabs in Palestine appeared for the first time in the preamble of the 1964 PLO Charter, drafted in Moscow. The Charter was affirmed by the first 422 members of the Palestinian National Council, handpicked by the KGB. This term was formally used by newspapers around the world after 1967.
> 
> United Nations Resolution 181 recommended a partition of the territory from the British Mandate for Palestine into two states - one for Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. But the rejection of partition by the Arabs left in place as the legally operative Mandate for Palestine, the 1924 Anglo-American Convention, and Article 80 of the United Nations Charter. All of the Arab countries objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against its creation. This was Israel's War of Independence in 1948. Despite their superior numbers, the Arab countries lost the war and the Palestinian state never materialized because of this loss. In the war that was waged, the territory allotted to be the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was divided between Israel and Jordan. The _"Palestinian Arabs"_ were rejected by every single Arab country, with the exception of the small percentage that ended up in refugee camps in Jordan where they remain to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL.  Repeating the Zionist propaganda. Nobody believes that crap anymore.  The Zionists didn't believe it either. Don't post propaganda, it's embarrassing.  It makes you look like a fool.
> 
> "In 1891, Ha'am had made his first visit to the Jewish settlements in Palestine. It resulted in an important essay, The Truth from the Land of Israel. What distinguished his report from the gushing accounts of other Jewish visitors was the sober realism with which he noted the many problems. High among them was the existence of an indigenous population.* "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."*
> 
> David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian
Click to expand...


Unfortunately for you, it is not propaganda but the truth.  The things you and others are posting is what is propaganda, and that much is obvious.  The territories captured were NOT Palestine.  They were territories owned by the King of Jordan.  There was no independent Palestine.  There was no such place!  You are lying!


----------



## Daniyel

montelatici said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UN set it up as a resolution mandate.  It does not matter who agreed and who didn't agree.  What matters is that Israel "stole" nothing.  That is an outright lie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No its not, and they are continuously stealing the Pals land, why do you think everyone is so upset about the 2400 new builds they are starting on. Thieves. plan and simple.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only reason why they are there is because Israel ALLOWS them to be there.  Probably not for much longer though, and who could blame them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's a price to pay for ethnic cleansing of indiginous peoples.  South Africa tried that with it's so-called African "homelands" - islands of semi-autonomous (resource poor) areas where the blacks could live seperate from the whites.  Stalin tried that when he forceably moved ethnic groups out of areas and ethnic-Russians into those areas to dilute populations.  It leaves a long term stain on the national character of a nation particularly when land theft is also involved as would be the case in West Bank and Gaza.  People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation and culture.  That is something the Jews themselves reiterate.  How can you then justify doing that to another people?  You can't.  Israel has been no angel in this affair either.  They need to stop the settlement building and both sides need t negotiate for a long term solution that most likely will involve two states  and land swaps.  I don't see any other way that would not produce a humanitarian nightmare by forcing a diaspora on a people that the Jews themselves experienced.  It's so ironic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as "Palestinians" before this conflict came to be.  There were only the occasional nomads passing through the area back then.  It was not inhabitable.  The Israelis MADE Israel/Gaza what it is today.
> 
> The Truth about the Palestinian People
> 
> The 1948 Israeli War of Independence was between the neighboring Arab countries and the newly formed state of Israel. The Arab countries did not send troops to help the people that are today known as _"Palestinians"_ but rather they sent troops to drive the Jews into the sea. Most of the _"Palestinian Arabs"_ fled to avoid the fighting. Remember, in 1948 they were not referred to as _"Palestinians"_. This name was was created by the Soviet disinformation masters in 1964 when they created the _Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO)_. The term_"Palestinian People"_ as a description of Arabs in Palestine appeared for the first time in the preamble of the 1964 PLO Charter, drafted in Moscow. The Charter was affirmed by the first 422 members of the Palestinian National Council, handpicked by the KGB. This term was formally used by newspapers around the world after 1967.
> 
> United Nations Resolution 181 recommended a partition of the territory from the British Mandate for Palestine into two states - one for Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. But the rejection of partition by the Arabs left in place as the legally operative Mandate for Palestine, the 1924 Anglo-American Convention, and Article 80 of the United Nations Charter. All of the Arab countries objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against its creation. This was Israel's War of Independence in 1948. Despite their superior numbers, the Arab countries lost the war and the Palestinian state never materialized because of this loss. In the war that was waged, the territory allotted to be the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was divided between Israel and Jordan. The _"Palestinian Arabs"_ were rejected by every single Arab country, with the exception of the small percentage that ended up in refugee camps in Jordan where they remain to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL.  Repeating the Zionist propaganda. Nobody believes that crap anymore.  The Zionists didn't believe it either. Don't post propaganda, it's embarrassing.  It makes you look like a fool.
Click to expand...

The Palestinians are not Israelis, they don't deserve to be Israelis, and you are just proving this point based on opposed claims, you can either stop comparing the conflict to South Africa because I believe its not only racism but its about religion majorly, and  even that is far more complicated than you can ever imagine, try explaining otherwise why the Palestinians DO deserve to be Israelis if you actually want to go on with your comparison.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?
> 
> If so - then I disagree.  By what authority?  Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?
> 
> I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).
> 
> The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.
> 
> In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.
> 
> I'm not sure about this...@RoccoR - if you have time could you clarify?  Is it as simple as Britain gave it to the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You should read post 354.  It explains what went on in detail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah...I missed that post.  Sometimes I dislike this new formatting.
> 
> Then what you are saying is that Israel was given the land as exists in the partition plan?
> United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No they were originally given all of Palestine later amended to what is now Palestine
> 
> See these
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammended to this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Based on what?
Click to expand...




 The treaties signed by the LoN and called the Mandate of Palestine.

Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 The British sought legitimacy for their continued control of the region and this was achieved by obtaining a mandate from the League of Nations in June 1922. The formal objective of the League of Nations Mandate system was to administer parts of the defunct Ottoman Empire, which had been in control of the Middle East since the 16th century, "until such time as they are able to stand alone."[3] The civil Mandate administration was formalized with the League of Nations' consent in 1923 under the British Mandate for Palestine, which covered two administrative areas. The land west of the Jordan River, known as Palestine, was under direct British administration until 1948, while the land east of the Jordan was a semi-autonomous region known as Transjordan, under the rule of the Hashemite family from the Hijaz, and gained independence in 1946.[4]
The divergent tendencies regarding the nature and purpose of the mandate is visible already in the discussions concerning the name for this new entity. According to the Minutes of the Ninth Session of the League of Nations' Permanent Mandate Commission:
"Colonel Symes explained that the country was described as 'Palestine' by Europeans and as 'Falestin' by the Arabs. The Hebrew name for the country was the designation 'Land of Israel', and the Government, to meet Jewish wishes, had agreed that the word "Palestine" in Hebrew characters should be followed in all official documents by the initials which stood for that designation. As a set-off to this, certain of the Arab politicians suggested that the country should be called 'Southern Syria' in order to emphasise its close relation with another Arab State".[5


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were not made to.
> They were offered - asked - maybe pleaded with - to extend the mandate and continue British control of the region by the UN, but refused, as there was no good end in sight with all the terrorist activity by the Jewish immigrants and US agitating against British overseas influence, and what with having no money to fund the enterprise (with no offers from anyone to pay).
> 
> So Britain left.  It did not hand over the land.  It did not agree to set up a Zionist state.  It did not facilitate the Zionist state.  It just failed to prevent it.
> 
> I have little doubt that Britain fully expected Zionism to get its comeuppance from the surrounding arab states / tribes soon after, which would have had some poetic justice (Create a state through invasion and the sword / Die by the sword).  But Britain was against the Zionist enterprise.  If compromised by elements in Britain who ran their own agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The UN set it up as a resolution mandate.  It does not matter who agreed and who didn't agree.  What matters is that Israel "stole" nothing.  That is an outright lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No its not, and they are continuously stealing the Pals land, why do you think everyone is so upset about the 2400 new builds they are starting on. Thieves. plan and simple.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only reason why they are there is because Israel ALLOWS them to be there.  Probably not for much longer though, and who could blame them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's a price to pay for ethnic cleansing of indiginous peoples.  South Africa tried that with it's so-called African "homelands" - islands of semi-autonomous (resource poor) areas where the blacks could live seperate from the whites.  Stalin tried that when he forceably moved ethnic groups out of areas and ethnic-Russians into those areas to dilute populations.  It leaves a long term stain on the national character of a nation particularly when land theft is also involved as would be the case in West Bank and Gaza.  People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation and culture.  That is something the Jews themselves reiterate.  How can you then justify doing that to another people?  You can't.  Israel has been no angel in this affair either.  They need to stop the settlement building and both sides need t negotiate for a long term solution that most likely will involve two states  and land swaps.  I don't see any other way that would not produce a humanitarian nightmare by forcing a diaspora on a people that the Jews themselves experienced.  It's so ironic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as "Palestinians" before this conflict came to be.  There were only the occasional nomads passing through the area back then.  It was not inhabitable.  The Israelis MADE Israel/Gaza what it is today.
> 
> The Truth about the Palestinian People
> 
> The 1948 Israeli War of Independence was between the neighboring Arab countries and the newly formed state of Israel. The Arab countries did not send troops to help the people that are today known as _"Palestinians"_ but rather they sent troops to drive the Jews into the sea. Most of the _"Palestinian Arabs"_ fled to avoid the fighting. Remember, in 1948 they were not referred to as _"Palestinians"_. This name was was created by the Soviet disinformation masters in 1964 when they created the _Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO)_. The term_"Palestinian People"_ as a description of Arabs in Palestine appeared for the first time in the preamble of the 1964 PLO Charter, drafted in Moscow. The Charter was affirmed by the first 422 members of the Palestinian National Council, handpicked by the KGB. This term was formally used by newspapers around the world after 1967.
> 
> United Nations Resolution 181 recommended a partition of the territory from the British Mandate for Palestine into two states - one for Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. But the rejection of partition by the Arabs left in place as the legally operative Mandate for Palestine, the 1924 Anglo-American Convention, and Article 80 of the United Nations Charter. All of the Arab countries objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against its creation. This was Israel's War of Independence in 1948. Despite their superior numbers, the Arab countries lost the war and the Palestinian state never materialized because of this loss. In the war that was waged, the territory allotted to be the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was divided between Israel and Jordan. The _"Palestinian Arabs"_ were rejected by every single Arab country, with the exception of the small percentage that ended up in refugee camps in Jordan where they remain to this day.
Click to expand...


Multiple people have posted repeated links to historical data indicating that area was by no means inhabited by only "occasional nomads" but had a significant permanent population that had been there for centuries.  They myth that it was largely "uninhabited" other than "occassional nomads" is just that, a myth that has been thoroughly debunked.

Look at the source you are using and what it has to say about itself:


> _Target Of Opportunity_
> _This website is a list and record of people that betray and endanger America by their Seditious, Treasonous, and/or Terrorist activities. Operating under the false illusion of Peaceful and Non-Violent activism, their methods are anything but Peaceful and Non-Violent. These people present a serious threat to all Americans. Each and every one of them should be considered a
> TARGET OF OPPORTUNITY_



What the heck kind of site is that and why should anything it says be taken seriously?


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?
> 
> If so - then I disagree.  By what authority?  Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?
> 
> I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).
> 
> The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.
> 
> In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.
> 
> I'm not sure about this...@RoccoR - if you have time could you clarify?  Is it as simple as Britain gave it to the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You should read post 354.  It explains what went on in detail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, post 354 is just a spouting of Zionist propaganda.  My post recapitulates an Israeli Army intelligence report written at the time of the events.
Click to expand...




 Strange as it can be found alongside your reports that you claim are valid. So which of the UNISPAL archives are propaganda and which are valid ?


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> THIS is all that matters.  The "ancient claims" mean nothing.
> 
> 
> The Jews were GIVEN the state of Israel, which the Arabs did not like, fought with them over it, and LOST.  End of story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNSCOP recommended to partition Palestine into two states – one Jewish and one Arab. This Partition Plan was rejected by all the Arab states. The resolution was passed in the United Nations with a vote of 33-13. Amazingly, both the United States and the Soviet Union supported the resolution, at the height of the Cold War. Russia believed that a Jewish state with many Socialist and Communist ideals would lead it eventually become part of the Soviet sphere of influence. This passing of the Partition Plan negatively affected over 1 million Sephardic Jews living in Arab lands, where the Muslims began turning against their Jewish citizens.
> 
> Since there was no U.N. provision to implement the Partition Plan, the Jews and Arabs were let to resolve the conflict themselves. Arab violence escalated and war quickly became the norm. By May of 1948, 1256 Jews, mostly civilians, had been killed by Arabs. As the war for Jewish survival increased, thousands of local Palestinians fled to neighboring Arab countries – believing that when the Jews were defeated they would return home.
> 
> On May 14, 1948, the British officially left Palestine and on the same day, the State of Israel was immediately declared by David Ben Gurion, acting as its provisional Prime Minister.
> 
> America was the first country to officially recognize the new State of Israel – eleven minutes after it was declared. U.S. President Harry Truman signed the letter of recognition – despite the objections by The United States Secretary of State George Marshall and the entire State Department.
> 
> Immediately after the declaration an all-out war broke out between the Jews and Arabs. Seven Arab armies attacked the new Jewish State – but were not united both militarily and politically. For example, the Arab League was established in order to counter The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem’s ambition to secure domination of Arab Palestine. At the same time, King Abdullah of Jordan wanted to merge Palestine with his kingdom. Eventually, the Arab forces began to lose the war.
> 
> As the war was raging the Jewish leadership begged the local Palestinian Arabs not to abandon their homes but the Arab leadership forbade the Arabs to return or live in areas under Jewish rule.
> 
> Unfortunately, in one form or anther, the war and battles that began in 1948 have continue to this day.
> 
> How different the situation in the Middle East would have been today if the Arabs had opened their hearts to live in peace with their Jewish neighbors – and had accepted the UN Partition Plan, which so favorable to them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you just spout propaganda?  Are really that thick that you believe we don't have access to the facts?
> 
> For example:
> 
> "Jewish leadership begged the local Palestinian Arabs not to abandon their homes"
> 
> Do you realize what a bunch of horseshit that is?
> 
> The facts:
> 
> " a report prepared by the intelligence services of the Israeli army, dated 30 June 1948 and entitled “The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948”. This document sets at 391,000 the number of Palestinians who had already left the territory that was by then in the hands of Israel, and evaluates the various factors that had prompted their decisions to leave. “At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations.” To this figure, the report’s compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which “directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration”. A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to “fears” and “a crisis of confidence” affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases..."
> 
> 
> The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It isn't propaganda, but your links are certainly propaganda.  Here is another link with the same exact information because this is EXACTLY how it happened.  Also, this is an unbiased link.  Too bad for you that Israel won.  That's that.  They won.  The land is theirs.  End of story.
> 
> Palestine 1918 to 1948
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1947, the newly formed United Nations accepted the idea to partition Palestine into a zone for the Jews (Israel) and a zone for the Arabs (Palestine). With this United Nations proposal, the British withdrew from the region on May 14th 1948. Almost immediately, Israel was attacked by Arab nations that surrounded in a war that lasted from May 1948 to January 1949. Palestinian Arabs refused to recognise Israel and it became the turn of the Israeli government itself to suffer from terrorist attacks when fedayeen (fanatics) from the Palestinian Arabs community attacked Israel. Such attacks later became more organised with the creation of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO). To the Palestinian Arabs, the area the Jews call Israel, will always be Palestine. To the Jews it is Israel. There have been very few years of peace in the region since 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My links are usually to official reports by the Mandatory to the League of Nations.  You are posting propaganda pieces.
> 
> The fact is that European Jews implemented a plan to ethnically cleanse the non-Jews and were successful.
> 
> There really can't be any question of the facts.
> 
> Why would anyone recognize the establishment of a state created through their expulsion from their homes?
Click to expand...




 If the come from the same archives then they must all bear the same value, so are your posts not propaganda as well then.


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UN set it up as a resolution mandate.  It does not matter who agreed and who didn't agree.  What matters is that Israel "stole" nothing.  That is an outright lie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No its not, and they are continuously stealing the Pals land, why do you think everyone is so upset about the 2400 new builds they are starting on. Thieves. plan and simple.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only reason why they are there is because Israel ALLOWS them to be there.  Probably not for much longer though, and who could blame them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's a price to pay for ethnic cleansing of indiginous peoples.  South Africa tried that with it's so-called African "homelands" - islands of semi-autonomous (resource poor) areas where the blacks could live seperate from the whites.  Stalin tried that when he forceably moved ethnic groups out of areas and ethnic-Russians into those areas to dilute populations.  It leaves a long term stain on the national character of a nation particularly when land theft is also involved as would be the case in West Bank and Gaza.  People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation and culture.  That is something the Jews themselves reiterate.  How can you then justify doing that to another people?  You can't.  Israel has been no angel in this affair either.  They need to stop the settlement building and both sides need t negotiate for a long term solution that most likely will involve two states  and land swaps.  I don't see any other way that would not produce a humanitarian nightmare by forcing a diaspora on a people that the Jews themselves experienced.  It's so ironic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as "Palestinians" before this conflict came to be.  There were only the occasional nomads passing through the area back then.  It was not inhabitable.  The Israelis MADE Israel/Gaza what it is today.
> 
> The Truth about the Palestinian People
> 
> The 1948 Israeli War of Independence was between the neighboring Arab countries and the newly formed state of Israel. The Arab countries did not send troops to help the people that are today known as _"Palestinians"_ but rather they sent troops to drive the Jews into the sea. Most of the _"Palestinian Arabs"_ fled to avoid the fighting. Remember, in 1948 they were not referred to as _"Palestinians"_. This name was was created by the Soviet disinformation masters in 1964 when they created the _Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO)_. The term_"Palestinian People"_ as a description of Arabs in Palestine appeared for the first time in the preamble of the 1964 PLO Charter, drafted in Moscow. The Charter was affirmed by the first 422 members of the Palestinian National Council, handpicked by the KGB. This term was formally used by newspapers around the world after 1967.
> 
> United Nations Resolution 181 recommended a partition of the territory from the British Mandate for Palestine into two states - one for Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. But the rejection of partition by the Arabs left in place as the legally operative Mandate for Palestine, the 1924 Anglo-American Convention, and Article 80 of the United Nations Charter. All of the Arab countries objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against its creation. This was Israel's War of Independence in 1948. Despite their superior numbers, the Arab countries lost the war and the Palestinian state never materialized because of this loss. In the war that was waged, the territory allotted to be the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was divided between Israel and Jordan. The _"Palestinian Arabs"_ were rejected by every single Arab country, with the exception of the small percentage that ended up in refugee camps in Jordan where they remain to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Multiple people have posted repeated links to historical data indicating that area was by no means inhabited by only "occasional nomads" but had a significant permanent population that had been there for centuries.  They myth that it was largely "uninhabited" other than "occassional nomads" is just that, a myth that has been thoroughly debunked.
> 
> Look at the source you are using and what it has to say about itself:
> 
> 
> 
> _Target Of Opportunity_
> _This website is a list and record of people that betray and endanger America by their Seditious, Treasonous, and/or Terrorist activities. Operating under the false illusion of Peaceful and Non-Violent activism, their methods are anything but Peaceful and Non-Violent. These people present a serious threat to all Americans. Each and every one of them should be considered a_
> _TARGET OF OPPORTUNITY_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the heck kind of site is that and why should anything it says be taken seriously?
Click to expand...


That is not the only source.  Multiple, multiple sources confirm the same data.  I've posted at LEAST 3 other links here that give the same data.  There was NO Palestine.  It is a made-up place.  It did not exist before the creation of Israel.  It WAS a mostly uninhabitable territory owned by Arab kings which was taken over by the British and mandated to become half a Jewish state and half an Arab state by the UN.  The Arabs would not accept that because of their BIGOTRY, and they tried to attack the Israelis, but the Israelis fought back and won, AND they won the land that you call "palestine."


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> THIS is all that matters.  The "ancient claims" mean nothing.
> 
> 
> The Jews were GIVEN the state of Israel, which the Arabs did not like, fought with them over it, and LOST.  End of story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you just spout propaganda?  Are really that thick that you believe we don't have access to the facts?
> 
> For example:
> 
> "Jewish leadership begged the local Palestinian Arabs not to abandon their homes"
> 
> Do you realize what a bunch of horseshit that is?
> 
> The facts:
> 
> " a report prepared by the intelligence services of the Israeli army, dated 30 June 1948 and entitled “The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948”. This document sets at 391,000 the number of Palestinians who had already left the territory that was by then in the hands of Israel, and evaluates the various factors that had prompted their decisions to leave. “At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations.” To this figure, the report’s compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which “directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration”. A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to “fears” and “a crisis of confidence” affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases..."
> 
> 
> The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It isn't propaganda, but your links are certainly propaganda.  Here is another link with the same exact information because this is EXACTLY how it happened.  Also, this is an unbiased link.  Too bad for you that Israel won.  That's that.  They won.  The land is theirs.  End of story.
> 
> Palestine 1918 to 1948
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1947, the newly formed United Nations accepted the idea to partition Palestine into a zone for the Jews (Israel) and a zone for the Arabs (Palestine). With this United Nations proposal, the British withdrew from the region on May 14th 1948. Almost immediately, Israel was attacked by Arab nations that surrounded in a war that lasted from May 1948 to January 1949. Palestinian Arabs refused to recognise Israel and it became the turn of the Israeli government itself to suffer from terrorist attacks when fedayeen (fanatics) from the Palestinian Arabs community attacked Israel. Such attacks later became more organised with the creation of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO). To the Palestinian Arabs, the area the Jews call Israel, will always be Palestine. To the Jews it is Israel. There have been very few years of peace in the region since 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My links are usually to official reports by the Mandatory to the League of Nations.  You are posting propaganda pieces.
> 
> The fact is that European Jews implemented a plan to ethnically cleanse the non-Jews and were successful.
> 
> There really can't be any question of the facts.
> 
> Why would anyone recognize the establishment of a state created through their expulsion from their homes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you saying this is not what happened?  You are so full of it.  Anyone can google it themselves to see.  The above which I linked to is completely accurate and truthful.  WHO do you think you're fooling?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's propaganda it's not accurate at all.  I provided a link to a scholarly work, not propaganda.
Click to expand...





 THAT YOU ARE NOW MANIPULATING TO MEET WITH YOUR ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA BECUASE YOU SUDDENLY REALISED THAT IT WAS TELLING A DIFFERENT STORY TO WHAT YOU SAID


----------



## Penelope

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> No its not, and they are continuously stealing the Pals land, why do you think everyone is so upset about the 2400 new builds they are starting on. Thieves. plan and simple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only reason why they are there is because Israel ALLOWS them to be there.  Probably not for much longer though, and who could blame them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's a price to pay for ethnic cleansing of indiginous peoples.  South Africa tried that with it's so-called African "homelands" - islands of semi-autonomous (resource poor) areas where the blacks could live seperate from the whites.  Stalin tried that when he forceably moved ethnic groups out of areas and ethnic-Russians into those areas to dilute populations.  It leaves a long term stain on the national character of a nation particularly when land theft is also involved as would be the case in West Bank and Gaza.  People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation and culture.  That is something the Jews themselves reiterate.  How can you then justify doing that to another people?  You can't.  Israel has been no angel in this affair either.  They need to stop the settlement building and both sides need t negotiate for a long term solution that most likely will involve two states  and land swaps.  I don't see any other way that would not produce a humanitarian nightmare by forcing a diaspora on a people that the Jews themselves experienced.  It's so ironic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as "Palestinians" before this conflict came to be.  There were only the occasional nomads passing through the area back then.  It was not inhabitable.  The Israelis MADE Israel/Gaza what it is today.
> 
> The Truth about the Palestinian People
> 
> The 1948 Israeli War of Independence was between the neighboring Arab countries and the newly formed state of Israel. The Arab countries did not send troops to help the people that are today known as _"Palestinians"_ but rather they sent troops to drive the Jews into the sea. Most of the _"Palestinian Arabs"_ fled to avoid the fighting. Remember, in 1948 they were not referred to as _"Palestinians"_. This name was was created by the Soviet disinformation masters in 1964 when they created the _Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO)_. The term_"Palestinian People"_ as a description of Arabs in Palestine appeared for the first time in the preamble of the 1964 PLO Charter, drafted in Moscow. The Charter was affirmed by the first 422 members of the Palestinian National Council, handpicked by the KGB. This term was formally used by newspapers around the world after 1967.
> 
> United Nations Resolution 181 recommended a partition of the territory from the British Mandate for Palestine into two states - one for Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. But the rejection of partition by the Arabs left in place as the legally operative Mandate for Palestine, the 1924 Anglo-American Convention, and Article 80 of the United Nations Charter. All of the Arab countries objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against its creation. This was Israel's War of Independence in 1948. Despite their superior numbers, the Arab countries lost the war and the Palestinian state never materialized because of this loss. In the war that was waged, the territory allotted to be the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was divided between Israel and Jordan. The _"Palestinian Arabs"_ were rejected by every single Arab country, with the exception of the small percentage that ended up in refugee camps in Jordan where they remain to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Multiple people have posted repeated links to historical data indicating that area was by no means inhabited by only "occasional nomads" but had a significant permanent population that had been there for centuries.  They myth that it was largely "uninhabited" other than "occassional nomads" is just that, a myth that has been thoroughly debunked.
> 
> Look at the source you are using and what it has to say about itself:
> 
> 
> 
> _Target Of Opportunity_
> _This website is a list and record of people that betray and endanger America by their Seditious, Treasonous, and/or Terrorist activities. Operating under the false illusion of Peaceful and Non-Violent activism, their methods are anything but Peaceful and Non-Violent. These people present a serious threat to all Americans. Each and every one of them should be considered a_
> _TARGET OF OPPORTUNITY_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the heck kind of site is that and why should anything it says be taken seriously?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is not the only source.  Multiple, multiple sources confirm the same data.  I've posted at LEAST 3 other links here that give the same data.  There was NO Palestine.  It is a made-up place.  It did not exist before the creation of Israel.  It WAS a mostly uninhabitable territory owned by Arab kings which was taken over by the British and mandated to become half a Jewish state and half an Arab state by the UN.  The Arabs would not accept that because of their BIGOTRY, and they tried to attack the Israelis, but the Israelis fought back and won, AND they won the land that you call "palestine."
Click to expand...


The Arabs were the bigots, you know why the British allowed some Jews to go there, because no one wanted them in their land , because they were racist and can't get along with others. How can a land and people be made up? the only thing made up is "God gave the land of Canaan to the Jews" . That is made up.


----------



## montelatici

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> No its not, and they are continuously stealing the Pals land, why do you think everyone is so upset about the 2400 new builds they are starting on. Thieves. plan and simple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only reason why they are there is because Israel ALLOWS them to be there.  Probably not for much longer though, and who could blame them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's a price to pay for ethnic cleansing of indiginous peoples.  South Africa tried that with it's so-called African "homelands" - islands of semi-autonomous (resource poor) areas where the blacks could live seperate from the whites.  Stalin tried that when he forceably moved ethnic groups out of areas and ethnic-Russians into those areas to dilute populations.  It leaves a long term stain on the national character of a nation particularly when land theft is also involved as would be the case in West Bank and Gaza.  People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation and culture.  That is something the Jews themselves reiterate.  How can you then justify doing that to another people?  You can't.  Israel has been no angel in this affair either.  They need to stop the settlement building and both sides need t negotiate for a long term solution that most likely will involve two states  and land swaps.  I don't see any other way that would not produce a humanitarian nightmare by forcing a diaspora on a people that the Jews themselves experienced.  It's so ironic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as "Palestinians" before this conflict came to be.  There were only the occasional nomads passing through the area back then.  It was not inhabitable.  The Israelis MADE Israel/Gaza what it is today.
> 
> The Truth about the Palestinian People
> 
> The 1948 Israeli War of Independence was between the neighboring Arab countries and the newly formed state of Israel. The Arab countries did not send troops to help the people that are today known as _"Palestinians"_ but rather they sent troops to drive the Jews into the sea. Most of the _"Palestinian Arabs"_ fled to avoid the fighting. Remember, in 1948 they were not referred to as _"Palestinians"_. This name was was created by the Soviet disinformation masters in 1964 when they created the _Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO)_. The term_"Palestinian People"_ as a description of Arabs in Palestine appeared for the first time in the preamble of the 1964 PLO Charter, drafted in Moscow. The Charter was affirmed by the first 422 members of the Palestinian National Council, handpicked by the KGB. This term was formally used by newspapers around the world after 1967.
> 
> United Nations Resolution 181 recommended a partition of the territory from the British Mandate for Palestine into two states - one for Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. But the rejection of partition by the Arabs left in place as the legally operative Mandate for Palestine, the 1924 Anglo-American Convention, and Article 80 of the United Nations Charter. All of the Arab countries objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against its creation. This was Israel's War of Independence in 1948. Despite their superior numbers, the Arab countries lost the war and the Palestinian state never materialized because of this loss. In the war that was waged, the territory allotted to be the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was divided between Israel and Jordan. The _"Palestinian Arabs"_ were rejected by every single Arab country, with the exception of the small percentage that ended up in refugee camps in Jordan where they remain to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Multiple people have posted repeated links to historical data indicating that area was by no means inhabited by only "occasional nomads" but had a significant permanent population that had been there for centuries.  They myth that it was largely "uninhabited" other than "occassional nomads" is just that, a myth that has been thoroughly debunked.
> 
> Look at the source you are using and what it has to say about itself:
> 
> 
> 
> _Target Of Opportunity_
> _This website is a list and record of people that betray and endanger America by their Seditious, Treasonous, and/or Terrorist activities. Operating under the false illusion of Peaceful and Non-Violent activism, their methods are anything but Peaceful and Non-Violent. These people present a serious threat to all Americans. Each and every one of them should be considered a_
> _TARGET OF OPPORTUNITY_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the heck kind of site is that and why should anything it says be taken seriously?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is not the only source.  Multiple, multiple sources confirm the same data.  I've posted at LEAST 3 other links here that give the same data.  There was NO Palestine.  It is a made-up place.  It did not exist before the creation of Israel.  It WAS a mostly uninhabitable territory owned by Arab kings which was taken over by the British and mandated to become half a Jewish state and half an Arab state by the UN.  The Arabs would not accept that because of their BIGOTRY, and they tried to attack the Israelis, but the Israelis fought back and won, AND they won the land that you call "palestine."
Click to expand...


"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly* 700,000 people*, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*_See_ Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) *Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages*.* Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems.* *A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs*; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. *Some 77,000 of the population are Christians*, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

*The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000.* Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. *Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews*. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921 

From the UN/LoN archives.  You are just spreading Zionist propaganda.  The fact is that the majority of Christians and Muslims lived in cities and towns.

I rest my case.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> No its not, and they are continuously stealing the Pals land, why do you think everyone is so upset about the 2400 new builds they are starting on. Thieves. plan and simple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only reason why they are there is because Israel ALLOWS them to be there.  Probably not for much longer though, and who could blame them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's a price to pay for ethnic cleansing of indiginous peoples.  South Africa tried that with it's so-called African "homelands" - islands of semi-autonomous (resource poor) areas where the blacks could live seperate from the whites.  Stalin tried that when he forceably moved ethnic groups out of areas and ethnic-Russians into those areas to dilute populations.  It leaves a long term stain on the national character of a nation particularly when land theft is also involved as would be the case in West Bank and Gaza.  People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation and culture.  That is something the Jews themselves reiterate.  How can you then justify doing that to another people?  You can't.  Israel has been no angel in this affair either.  They need to stop the settlement building and both sides need t negotiate for a long term solution that most likely will involve two states  and land swaps.  I don't see any other way that would not produce a humanitarian nightmare by forcing a diaspora on a people that the Jews themselves experienced.  It's so ironic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as "Palestinians" before this conflict came to be.  There were only the occasional nomads passing through the area back then.  It was not inhabitable.  The Israelis MADE Israel/Gaza what it is today.
> 
> The Truth about the Palestinian People
> 
> The 1948 Israeli War of Independence was between the neighboring Arab countries and the newly formed state of Israel. The Arab countries did not send troops to help the people that are today known as _"Palestinians"_ but rather they sent troops to drive the Jews into the sea. Most of the _"Palestinian Arabs"_ fled to avoid the fighting. Remember, in 1948 they were not referred to as _"Palestinians"_. This name was was created by the Soviet disinformation masters in 1964 when they created the _Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO)_. The term_"Palestinian People"_ as a description of Arabs in Palestine appeared for the first time in the preamble of the 1964 PLO Charter, drafted in Moscow. The Charter was affirmed by the first 422 members of the Palestinian National Council, handpicked by the KGB. This term was formally used by newspapers around the world after 1967.
> 
> United Nations Resolution 181 recommended a partition of the territory from the British Mandate for Palestine into two states - one for Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. But the rejection of partition by the Arabs left in place as the legally operative Mandate for Palestine, the 1924 Anglo-American Convention, and Article 80 of the United Nations Charter. All of the Arab countries objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against its creation. This was Israel's War of Independence in 1948. Despite their superior numbers, the Arab countries lost the war and the Palestinian state never materialized because of this loss. In the war that was waged, the territory allotted to be the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was divided between Israel and Jordan. The _"Palestinian Arabs"_ were rejected by every single Arab country, with the exception of the small percentage that ended up in refugee camps in Jordan where they remain to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Multiple people have posted repeated links to historical data indicating that area was by no means inhabited by only "occasional nomads" but had a significant permanent population that had been there for centuries.  They myth that it was largely "uninhabited" other than "occassional nomads" is just that, a myth that has been thoroughly debunked.
> 
> Look at the source you are using and what it has to say about itself:
> 
> 
> 
> _Target Of Opportunity_
> _This website is a list and record of people that betray and endanger America by their Seditious, Treasonous, and/or Terrorist activities. Operating under the false illusion of Peaceful and Non-Violent activism, their methods are anything but Peaceful and Non-Violent. These people present a serious threat to all Americans. Each and every one of them should be considered a_
> _TARGET OF OPPORTUNITY_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the heck kind of site is that and why should anything it says be taken seriously?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is not the only source.  Multiple, multiple sources confirm the same data.  I've posted at LEAST 3 other links here that give the same data.  *There was NO Palestine*.  It is *a made-up place*.  It did not exist before the creation of Israel.  *It WAS a mostly uninhabitable territory owned* by Arab kings which was taken over by the British and mandated to become half a Jewish state and half an Arab state by the UN.  The Arabs would not accept that because of their BIGOTRY, and they tried to attack the Israelis, but the Israelis fought back and won, AND they won the land that you call "palestine."
Click to expand...



Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.  

Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.

Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?

The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]


----------



## montelatici

The other bit of propaganda is that the Jews had fewer numbers and military power  than the Arabs.  The Palestinians would have been either massacred or ethnically cleansed by the Jews whether the attempt by the Arab states to prevent their ethnic cleansing occurred or not.


"In short, the Palestinians had no significant military capacity. They were a typical colonial society. Already before May 1948, they had suffered at least 5,000 casualties. While the Israelis talked of the threat of an Arab-inflicted holocaust, “They were fully aware that the Arab war rhetoric was in no way matched by any serious preparation on the ground.”

Fourth, in every category, the Zionists had overwhelming superiority. Since much of the information in this section was sternly denied for years I have checked what I have collected against the two major and more recent Israeli accounts, both of which were derived from Israeli military and political archives........By May 1948, the Haganah numbered 35,700 standing troops of whom 2,200 were the Special Forces of Palmach. That is, as Benny Morris pointed out, the Yishuv army numbered some 5,500 more soldiers than the combined strength of the regular Arab armies and paramilitary Palestinian forces. In addition, Haganah could draw on 9,500 members of the paramilitary youth corps. By July 1948, when the Haganah was renamed the Israel Defense Force, it had 63,000 men under arms. Perhaps more important than numbers, it had a command and control capability that allowed it to conduct division-size or multiple-brigade, operations. No Arab force even remotely approached its power."

In 1948 Jewish Forces in Palestine outnumbered Palestinian and Arab Fighters Informed Comment


----------



## aris2chat

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only reason why they are there is because Israel ALLOWS them to be there.  Probably not for much longer though, and who could blame them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's a price to pay for ethnic cleansing of indiginous peoples.  South Africa tried that with it's so-called African "homelands" - islands of semi-autonomous (resource poor) areas where the blacks could live seperate from the whites.  Stalin tried that when he forceably moved ethnic groups out of areas and ethnic-Russians into those areas to dilute populations.  It leaves a long term stain on the national character of a nation particularly when land theft is also involved as would be the case in West Bank and Gaza.  People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation and culture.  That is something the Jews themselves reiterate.  How can you then justify doing that to another people?  You can't.  Israel has been no angel in this affair either.  They need to stop the settlement building and both sides need t negotiate for a long term solution that most likely will involve two states  and land swaps.  I don't see any other way that would not produce a humanitarian nightmare by forcing a diaspora on a people that the Jews themselves experienced.  It's so ironic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as "Palestinians" before this conflict came to be.  There were only the occasional nomads passing through the area back then.  It was not inhabitable.  The Israelis MADE Israel/Gaza what it is today.
> 
> The Truth about the Palestinian People
> 
> The 1948 Israeli War of Independence was between the neighboring Arab countries and the newly formed state of Israel. The Arab countries did not send troops to help the people that are today known as _"Palestinians"_ but rather they sent troops to drive the Jews into the sea. Most of the _"Palestinian Arabs"_ fled to avoid the fighting. Remember, in 1948 they were not referred to as _"Palestinians"_. This name was was created by the Soviet disinformation masters in 1964 when they created the _Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO)_. The term_"Palestinian People"_ as a description of Arabs in Palestine appeared for the first time in the preamble of the 1964 PLO Charter, drafted in Moscow. The Charter was affirmed by the first 422 members of the Palestinian National Council, handpicked by the KGB. This term was formally used by newspapers around the world after 1967.
> 
> United Nations Resolution 181 recommended a partition of the territory from the British Mandate for Palestine into two states - one for Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. But the rejection of partition by the Arabs left in place as the legally operative Mandate for Palestine, the 1924 Anglo-American Convention, and Article 80 of the United Nations Charter. All of the Arab countries objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against its creation. This was Israel's War of Independence in 1948. Despite their superior numbers, the Arab countries lost the war and the Palestinian state never materialized because of this loss. In the war that was waged, the territory allotted to be the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was divided between Israel and Jordan. The _"Palestinian Arabs"_ were rejected by every single Arab country, with the exception of the small percentage that ended up in refugee camps in Jordan where they remain to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Multiple people have posted repeated links to historical data indicating that area was by no means inhabited by only "occasional nomads" but had a significant permanent population that had been there for centuries.  They myth that it was largely "uninhabited" other than "occassional nomads" is just that, a myth that has been thoroughly debunked.
> 
> Look at the source you are using and what it has to say about itself:
> 
> 
> 
> _Target Of Opportunity_
> _This website is a list and record of people that betray and endanger America by their Seditious, Treasonous, and/or Terrorist activities. Operating under the false illusion of Peaceful and Non-Violent activism, their methods are anything but Peaceful and Non-Violent. These people present a serious threat to all Americans. Each and every one of them should be considered a_
> _TARGET OF OPPORTUNITY_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the heck kind of site is that and why should anything it says be taken seriously?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is not the only source.  Multiple, multiple sources confirm the same data.  I've posted at LEAST 3 other links here that give the same data.  *There was NO Palestine*.  It is *a made-up place*.  It did not exist before the creation of Israel.  *It WAS a mostly uninhabitable territory owned* by Arab kings which was taken over by the British and mandated to become half a Jewish state and half an Arab state by the UN.  The Arabs would not accept that because of their BIGOTRY, and they tried to attack the Israelis, but the Israelis fought back and won, AND they won the land that you call "palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
Click to expand...


a balanced evaluation of the population.  Both (all) sides might learn a thing or two from it.
Well documents paper
Palestinian censuses.
When compared to the population during the Roman occupation, the ottoman region that became the mandate under the LoN, and later the UN, was *under* populated.  The land was more than capable of supporting not just a population or 7 million but also producing enough to export the surplus.
When the whole of what we refer to as the mandate in 1917 had barely 500,000, there was more than enough room for the jews to return to their historic homeland.  Ottoman and arabs welcomed their return, and benefited from the development of land; the creation of jobs, modernization of farming and industry, and boost to the economy.


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> "In short, the Palestinians had no significant military capacity. They were a typical colonial society. Already before May 1948, they had suffered at least 5,000 casualties. While the Israelis talked of the threat of an Arab-inflicted holocaust, “They were fully aware that the Arab war rhetoric was in no way matched by any serious preparation on the ground.”


Juan Cole drivelaggio.


----------



## montelatici

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "In short, the Palestinians had no significant military capacity. They were a typical colonial society. Already before May 1948, they had suffered at least 5,000 casualties. While the Israelis talked of the threat of an Arab-inflicted holocaust, “They were fully aware that the Arab war rhetoric was in no way matched by any serious preparation on the ground.”
> 
> 
> 
> Juan Cole drivelaggio.
Click to expand...


Just facts, son.


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "In short, the Palestinians had no significant military capacity. They were a typical colonial society. Already before May 1948, they had suffered at least 5,000 casualties. While the Israelis talked of the threat of an Arab-inflicted holocaust, “They were fully aware that the Arab war rhetoric was in no way matched by any serious preparation on the ground.”
> 
> 
> 
> Juan Cole drivelaggio.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just facts, son.
Click to expand...

Just drivel.


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only reason why they are there is because Israel ALLOWS them to be there.  Probably not for much longer though, and who could blame them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's a price to pay for ethnic cleansing of indiginous peoples.  South Africa tried that with it's so-called African "homelands" - islands of semi-autonomous (resource poor) areas where the blacks could live seperate from the whites.  Stalin tried that when he forceably moved ethnic groups out of areas and ethnic-Russians into those areas to dilute populations.  It leaves a long term stain on the national character of a nation particularly when land theft is also involved as would be the case in West Bank and Gaza.  People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation and culture.  That is something the Jews themselves reiterate.  How can you then justify doing that to another people?  You can't.  Israel has been no angel in this affair either.  They need to stop the settlement building and both sides need t negotiate for a long term solution that most likely will involve two states  and land swaps.  I don't see any other way that would not produce a humanitarian nightmare by forcing a diaspora on a people that the Jews themselves experienced.  It's so ironic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as "Palestinians" before this conflict came to be.  There were only the occasional nomads passing through the area back then.  It was not inhabitable.  The Israelis MADE Israel/Gaza what it is today.
> 
> The Truth about the Palestinian People
> 
> The 1948 Israeli War of Independence was between the neighboring Arab countries and the newly formed state of Israel. The Arab countries did not send troops to help the people that are today known as _"Palestinians"_ but rather they sent troops to drive the Jews into the sea. Most of the _"Palestinian Arabs"_ fled to avoid the fighting. Remember, in 1948 they were not referred to as _"Palestinians"_. This name was was created by the Soviet disinformation masters in 1964 when they created the _Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO)_. The term_"Palestinian People"_ as a description of Arabs in Palestine appeared for the first time in the preamble of the 1964 PLO Charter, drafted in Moscow. The Charter was affirmed by the first 422 members of the Palestinian National Council, handpicked by the KGB. This term was formally used by newspapers around the world after 1967.
> 
> United Nations Resolution 181 recommended a partition of the territory from the British Mandate for Palestine into two states - one for Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. But the rejection of partition by the Arabs left in place as the legally operative Mandate for Palestine, the 1924 Anglo-American Convention, and Article 80 of the United Nations Charter. All of the Arab countries objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against its creation. This was Israel's War of Independence in 1948. Despite their superior numbers, the Arab countries lost the war and the Palestinian state never materialized because of this loss. In the war that was waged, the territory allotted to be the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was divided between Israel and Jordan. The _"Palestinian Arabs"_ were rejected by every single Arab country, with the exception of the small percentage that ended up in refugee camps in Jordan where they remain to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Multiple people have posted repeated links to historical data indicating that area was by no means inhabited by only "occasional nomads" but had a significant permanent population that had been there for centuries.  They myth that it was largely "uninhabited" other than "occassional nomads" is just that, a myth that has been thoroughly debunked.
> 
> Look at the source you are using and what it has to say about itself:
> 
> 
> 
> _Target Of Opportunity_
> _This website is a list and record of people that betray and endanger America by their Seditious, Treasonous, and/or Terrorist activities. Operating under the false illusion of Peaceful and Non-Violent activism, their methods are anything but Peaceful and Non-Violent. These people present a serious threat to all Americans. Each and every one of them should be considered a_
> _TARGET OF OPPORTUNITY_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the heck kind of site is that and why should anything it says be taken seriously?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is not the only source.  Multiple, multiple sources confirm the same data.  I've posted at LEAST 3 other links here that give the same data.  *There was NO Palestine*.  It is *a made-up place*.  It did not exist before the creation of Israel.  *It WAS a mostly uninhabitable territory owned* by Arab kings which was taken over by the British and mandated to become half a Jewish state and half an Arab state by the UN.  The Arabs would not accept that because of their BIGOTRY, and they tried to attack the Israelis, but the Israelis fought back and won, AND they won the land that you call "palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
Click to expand...


Even if that were true, it still doesn't change the fact that it was a territory owned and controlled not by anyone known as a "palestinian," and that it is made up.  They were Arabs, and as you link states the "military" and those of foreign nationality are more than likely not permanent residents.  

The land was owned by Arab kings and then by the British.  The Jewish people did not steal any land from anyone.  None of your links suggest that anyone is more entitled to this land than the people who it was given to, or who won over some territory during time of war.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's a price to pay for ethnic cleansing of indiginous peoples.  South Africa tried that with it's so-called African "homelands" - islands of semi-autonomous (resource poor) areas where the blacks could live seperate from the whites.  Stalin tried that when he forceably moved ethnic groups out of areas and ethnic-Russians into those areas to dilute populations.  It leaves a long term stain on the national character of a nation particularly when land theft is also involved as would be the case in West Bank and Gaza.  People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation and culture.  That is something the Jews themselves reiterate.  How can you then justify doing that to another people?  You can't.  Israel has been no angel in this affair either.  They need to stop the settlement building and both sides need t negotiate for a long term solution that most likely will involve two states  and land swaps.  I don't see any other way that would not produce a humanitarian nightmare by forcing a diaspora on a people that the Jews themselves experienced.  It's so ironic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as "Palestinians" before this conflict came to be.  There were only the occasional nomads passing through the area back then.  It was not inhabitable.  The Israelis MADE Israel/Gaza what it is today.
> 
> The Truth about the Palestinian People
> 
> The 1948 Israeli War of Independence was between the neighboring Arab countries and the newly formed state of Israel. The Arab countries did not send troops to help the people that are today known as _"Palestinians"_ but rather they sent troops to drive the Jews into the sea. Most of the _"Palestinian Arabs"_ fled to avoid the fighting. Remember, in 1948 they were not referred to as _"Palestinians"_. This name was was created by the Soviet disinformation masters in 1964 when they created the _Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO)_. The term_"Palestinian People"_ as a description of Arabs in Palestine appeared for the first time in the preamble of the 1964 PLO Charter, drafted in Moscow. The Charter was affirmed by the first 422 members of the Palestinian National Council, handpicked by the KGB. This term was formally used by newspapers around the world after 1967.
> 
> United Nations Resolution 181 recommended a partition of the territory from the British Mandate for Palestine into two states - one for Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. But the rejection of partition by the Arabs left in place as the legally operative Mandate for Palestine, the 1924 Anglo-American Convention, and Article 80 of the United Nations Charter. All of the Arab countries objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against its creation. This was Israel's War of Independence in 1948. Despite their superior numbers, the Arab countries lost the war and the Palestinian state never materialized because of this loss. In the war that was waged, the territory allotted to be the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was divided between Israel and Jordan. The _"Palestinian Arabs"_ were rejected by every single Arab country, with the exception of the small percentage that ended up in refugee camps in Jordan where they remain to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Multiple people have posted repeated links to historical data indicating that area was by no means inhabited by only "occasional nomads" but had a significant permanent population that had been there for centuries.  They myth that it was largely "uninhabited" other than "occassional nomads" is just that, a myth that has been thoroughly debunked.
> 
> Look at the source you are using and what it has to say about itself:
> 
> 
> 
> _Target Of Opportunity_
> _This website is a list and record of people that betray and endanger America by their Seditious, Treasonous, and/or Terrorist activities. Operating under the false illusion of Peaceful and Non-Violent activism, their methods are anything but Peaceful and Non-Violent. These people present a serious threat to all Americans. Each and every one of them should be considered a_
> _TARGET OF OPPORTUNITY_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the heck kind of site is that and why should anything it says be taken seriously?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is not the only source.  Multiple, multiple sources confirm the same data.  I've posted at LEAST 3 other links here that give the same data.  *There was NO Palestine*.  It is *a made-up place*.  It did not exist before the creation of Israel.  *It WAS a mostly uninhabitable territory owned* by Arab kings which was taken over by the British and mandated to become half a Jewish state and half an Arab state by the UN.  The Arabs would not accept that because of their BIGOTRY, and they tried to attack the Israelis, but the Israelis fought back and won, AND they won the land that you call "palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even if that were true, it still doesn't change the fact that it was a territory owned and controlled not by anyone known as a "palestinian," and that it is made up.  They were Arabs, and as you link states the "military" and those of foreign nationality are more than likely not permanent residents.
> 
> The land was owned by Arab kings and then by the British.  The Jewish people did not steal any land from anyone.  None of your links suggest that anyone is more entitled to this land than the people who it was given to, or who won over some territory during time of war.
Click to expand...


It's owned by the indiginous people living there that have lived there and that now call themselves Palestinians.  They didn't just appear out of nowhere.

I'm not claiming entitlement of one group over another that broadly.  What I'm saying is that they have lived there and their rights should not be disregarded and you can't just move whole populations out of an area because they are inconvenient to your political or nationalistic ambitions.

Even when territory is taken by war - the people usually go with it and are subject to new rulers.  If Israel wants to keep WB and Gaza, then it can keep the people and gives them Israeli citizenship just like any other conquored country or it can ethnically cleanse the region and be comparable to Stalin who forceably moved ethnic minorities to Siberia and moved in ethnic Russians.


----------



## montelatici

aris2chat said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's a price to pay for ethnic cleansing of indiginous peoples.  South Africa tried that with it's so-called African "homelands" - islands of semi-autonomous (resource poor) areas where the blacks could live seperate from the whites.  Stalin tried that when he forceably moved ethnic groups out of areas and ethnic-Russians into those areas to dilute populations.  It leaves a long term stain on the national character of a nation particularly when land theft is also involved as would be the case in West Bank and Gaza.  People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation and culture.  That is something the Jews themselves reiterate.  How can you then justify doing that to another people?  You can't.  Israel has been no angel in this affair either.  They need to stop the settlement building and both sides need t negotiate for a long term solution that most likely will involve two states  and land swaps.  I don't see any other way that would not produce a humanitarian nightmare by forcing a diaspora on a people that the Jews themselves experienced.  It's so ironic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as "Palestinians" before this conflict came to be.  There were only the occasional nomads passing through the area back then.  It was not inhabitable.  The Israelis MADE Israel/Gaza what it is today.
> 
> The Truth about the Palestinian People
> 
> The 1948 Israeli War of Independence was between the neighboring Arab countries and the newly formed state of Israel. The Arab countries did not send troops to help the people that are today known as _"Palestinians"_ but rather they sent troops to drive the Jews into the sea. Most of the _"Palestinian Arabs"_ fled to avoid the fighting. Remember, in 1948 they were not referred to as _"Palestinians"_. This name was was created by the Soviet disinformation masters in 1964 when they created the _Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO)_. The term_"Palestinian People"_ as a description of Arabs in Palestine appeared for the first time in the preamble of the 1964 PLO Charter, drafted in Moscow. The Charter was affirmed by the first 422 members of the Palestinian National Council, handpicked by the KGB. This term was formally used by newspapers around the world after 1967.
> 
> United Nations Resolution 181 recommended a partition of the territory from the British Mandate for Palestine into two states - one for Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. But the rejection of partition by the Arabs left in place as the legally operative Mandate for Palestine, the 1924 Anglo-American Convention, and Article 80 of the United Nations Charter. All of the Arab countries objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against its creation. This was Israel's War of Independence in 1948. Despite their superior numbers, the Arab countries lost the war and the Palestinian state never materialized because of this loss. In the war that was waged, the territory allotted to be the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was divided between Israel and Jordan. The _"Palestinian Arabs"_ were rejected by every single Arab country, with the exception of the small percentage that ended up in refugee camps in Jordan where they remain to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Multiple people have posted repeated links to historical data indicating that area was by no means inhabited by only "occasional nomads" but had a significant permanent population that had been there for centuries.  They myth that it was largely "uninhabited" other than "occassional nomads" is just that, a myth that has been thoroughly debunked.
> 
> Look at the source you are using and what it has to say about itself:
> 
> 
> 
> _Target Of Opportunity_
> _This website is a list and record of people that betray and endanger America by their Seditious, Treasonous, and/or Terrorist activities. Operating under the false illusion of Peaceful and Non-Violent activism, their methods are anything but Peaceful and Non-Violent. These people present a serious threat to all Americans. Each and every one of them should be considered a_
> _TARGET OF OPPORTUNITY_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the heck kind of site is that and why should anything it says be taken seriously?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is not the only source.  Multiple, multiple sources confirm the same data.  I've posted at LEAST 3 other links here that give the same data.  *There was NO Palestine*.  It is *a made-up place*.  It did not exist before the creation of Israel.  *It WAS a mostly uninhabitable territory owned* by Arab kings which was taken over by the British and mandated to become half a Jewish state and half an Arab state by the UN.  The Arabs would not accept that because of their BIGOTRY, and they tried to attack the Israelis, but the Israelis fought back and won, AND they won the land that you call "palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> a balanced evaluation of the population.  Both (all) sides might learn a thing or two from it.
> Well documents paper
> Palestinian censuses.
> When compared to the population during the Roman occupation, the ottoman region that became the mandate under the LoN, and later the UN, was *under* populated.  The land was more than capable of supporting not just a population or 7 million but also producing enough to export the surplus.
> When the whole of what we refer to as the mandate in 1917 had barely 500,000, there was more than enough room for the jews to return to their historic homeland.  Ottoman and arabs welcomed their return, and benefited from the development of land; the creation of jobs, modernization of farming and industry, and boost to the economy.
Click to expand...



That's like saying that because the Americas were so big, the Europeans were justified in removing the Native Americans.  That's a load of crap. As far as Arabs welcoming the Jews, yes until they made clear they intended to take over.

 Ahad Ha'am who was actually there had a different opinion.  You believe in Fairy Tales Aris.

" "The Arab, like all Semites, has a sharp mind and is full of cunning ... [They] understand very well what we want and what we do in the country, but ... at present they do not see any danger for themselves or their future in what we are doing and therefore are trying to turn to their advantage these new guests ... But when the day will come in which the life of our people in the Land of Israel will develop to such a degree that they will push aside the local population by little or by much, then it will not easily give up its place."

David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as "Palestinians" before this conflict came to be.  There were only the occasional nomads passing through the area back then.  It was not inhabitable.  The Israelis MADE Israel/Gaza what it is today.
> 
> The Truth about the Palestinian People
> 
> The 1948 Israeli War of Independence was between the neighboring Arab countries and the newly formed state of Israel. The Arab countries did not send troops to help the people that are today known as _"Palestinians"_ but rather they sent troops to drive the Jews into the sea. Most of the _"Palestinian Arabs"_ fled to avoid the fighting. Remember, in 1948 they were not referred to as _"Palestinians"_. This name was was created by the Soviet disinformation masters in 1964 when they created the _Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO)_. The term_"Palestinian People"_ as a description of Arabs in Palestine appeared for the first time in the preamble of the 1964 PLO Charter, drafted in Moscow. The Charter was affirmed by the first 422 members of the Palestinian National Council, handpicked by the KGB. This term was formally used by newspapers around the world after 1967.
> 
> United Nations Resolution 181 recommended a partition of the territory from the British Mandate for Palestine into two states - one for Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. But the rejection of partition by the Arabs left in place as the legally operative Mandate for Palestine, the 1924 Anglo-American Convention, and Article 80 of the United Nations Charter. All of the Arab countries objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against its creation. This was Israel's War of Independence in 1948. Despite their superior numbers, the Arab countries lost the war and the Palestinian state never materialized because of this loss. In the war that was waged, the territory allotted to be the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was divided between Israel and Jordan. The _"Palestinian Arabs"_ were rejected by every single Arab country, with the exception of the small percentage that ended up in refugee camps in Jordan where they remain to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Multiple people have posted repeated links to historical data indicating that area was by no means inhabited by only "occasional nomads" but had a significant permanent population that had been there for centuries.  They myth that it was largely "uninhabited" other than "occassional nomads" is just that, a myth that has been thoroughly debunked.
> 
> Look at the source you are using and what it has to say about itself:
> 
> 
> 
> _Target Of Opportunity_
> _This website is a list and record of people that betray and endanger America by their Seditious, Treasonous, and/or Terrorist activities. Operating under the false illusion of Peaceful and Non-Violent activism, their methods are anything but Peaceful and Non-Violent. These people present a serious threat to all Americans. Each and every one of them should be considered a_
> _TARGET OF OPPORTUNITY_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the heck kind of site is that and why should anything it says be taken seriously?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is not the only source.  Multiple, multiple sources confirm the same data.  I've posted at LEAST 3 other links here that give the same data.  *There was NO Palestine*.  It is *a made-up place*.  It did not exist before the creation of Israel.  *It WAS a mostly uninhabitable territory owned* by Arab kings which was taken over by the British and mandated to become half a Jewish state and half an Arab state by the UN.  The Arabs would not accept that because of their BIGOTRY, and they tried to attack the Israelis, but the Israelis fought back and won, AND they won the land that you call "palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even if that were true, it still doesn't change the fact that it was a territory owned and controlled not by anyone known as a "palestinian," and that it is made up.  They were Arabs, and as you link states the "military" and those of foreign nationality are more than likely not permanent residents.
> 
> The land was owned by Arab kings and then by the British.  The Jewish people did not steal any land from anyone.  None of your links suggest that anyone is more entitled to this land than the people who it was given to, or who won over some territory during time of war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's owned by the indiginous people living there that have lived there and that now call themselves Palestinians.  They didn't just appear out of nowhere.
> 
> I'm not claiming entitlement of one group over another that broadly.  What I'm saying is that they have lived there and their rights should not be disregarded and you can't just move whole populations out of an area because they are inconvenient to your political or nationalistic ambitions.
> 
> Even when territory is taken by war - the people usually go with it and are subject to new rulers.  If Israel wants to keep WB and Gaza, then it can keep the people and gives them Israeli citizenship just like any other conquored country or it can ethnically cleanse the region and be comparable to Stalin who forceably moved ethnic minorities to Siberia and moved in ethnic Russians.
Click to expand...


I'm pretty sure that is what Israel has tried to do, and they do have some palestinians in their midst who do NOT want anything to do with the "palestinian" state.  It is not Israel's fault that they are surrounded by intolerant bigots.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> I'm pretty sure that is what Israel has tried to do, and they do have some palestinians in their midst who do NOT want anything to do with the "palestinian" state.  It is not Israel's fault that they are surrounded by intolerant bigots.





That's why the only workable solution is a 2-state solution where both sides must give up some of their ambitions in order to secure peace and security.


----------



## Kondor3

I suppose that we can piss and moan over who was there first - and in what numbers - and to what extent the region known as Palestine was reconfigured - and to what extent that was legal - until we're blue in the face, and not really get anywhere.

What signifies is the here and now.

Israel owns and rules that land now, and allows the Palestinians to live, at their discretion - having the power to destroy them utterly in very short order.

The place is under New Management, and will continue under that new management for as far into the future as can be foreseen.

The real challenge now is to (1) preserve Israel and (2) cut the best deal possible for the descendants of those who ran way in 1948.

Considering that Israel holds the trump-hand, the Palestinians would do well to fold, and to negotiate the best take-aways that they can manage.


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## montelatici

The UK held the trump card many times over in Northern Ireland, but the Protestants had to compromise and eventually, the Catholics will takeover through demographics. Best that the Jews make a deal now that they are at the apex of their power and relative population difference.


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## Hossfly

montelatici said:


> The UK held the trump card many times over in Northern Ireland, but the Protestants had to compromise and eventually, the Catholics will takeover through demographics. Best that the Jews make a deal now that they are at the apex of their power and relative population difference.


The Jews are packin' big heat, fellow.


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## montelatici

Hossfly said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UK held the trump card many times over in Northern Ireland, but the Protestants had to compromise and eventually, the Catholics will takeover through demographics. Best that the Jews make a deal now that they are at the apex of their power and relative population difference.
> 
> 
> 
> The Jews are packin' big heat, fellow.
Click to expand...


The UK was packing more, actually.


----------



## Coyote

montelatici said:


> The UK held the trump card many times over in Northern Ireland, but the Protestants had to compromise and eventually, the Catholics will takeover through demographics. Best that the Jews make a deal now that they are at the apex of their power and relative population difference.



I think given what is occurring in the ME, it's in Israel's (and the Palestinian's) best interest to make a deal.  It's not necessarily demographics but the likely chance that the Israel, and it's Arab neighbors will need to work together to deal with ISIS, Iraq, Syria and Libya all of which are in a state of chaos. Settling the Palestinian issue now, while Hamas has lost a lot of support and popularity would be beneficial for it.  No one is going to support massive population transfers to another country though.


----------



## montelatici

Coyote said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UK held the trump card many times over in Northern Ireland, but the Protestants had to compromise and eventually, the Catholics will takeover through demographics. Best that the Jews make a deal now that they are at the apex of their power and relative population difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think given what is occurring in the ME, it's in Israel's (and the Palestinian's) best interest to make a deal.  It's not necessarily demographics but the likely chance that the Israel, and it's Arab neighbors will need to work together to deal with ISIS, Iraq, Syria and Libya all of which are in a state of chaos. Settling the Palestinian issue now, while Hamas has lost a lot of support and popularity would be beneficial for it.  No one is going to support massive population transfers to another country though.
Click to expand...



" According to a new poll of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh would trounce Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas were a two-man election to be held today.* That puts Hamas back in pole position for the first time since 2006.* The group’s TV station, Al Aqsa, has become the No. 1 channel watched by Palestinians – by a margin of 15 percentage points. And 70 percent of Palestinians in the West Bank say they want to adopt Hamas’s armed approach. "

After Gaza war Hamas on a high but for how long video - CSMonitor.com


----------



## pbel

montelatici said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UK held the trump card many times over in Northern Ireland, but the Protestants had to compromise and eventually, the Catholics will takeover through demographics. Best that the Jews make a deal now that they are at the apex of their power and relative population difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think given what is occurring in the ME, it's in Israel's (and the Palestinian's) best interest to make a deal.  It's not necessarily demographics but the likely chance that the Israel, and it's Arab neighbors will need to work together to deal with ISIS, Iraq, Syria and Libya all of which are in a state of chaos. Settling the Palestinian issue now, while Hamas has lost a lot of support and popularity would be beneficial for it.  No one is going to support massive population transfers to another country though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> " According to a new poll of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh would trounce Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas were a two-man election to be held today.* That puts Hamas back in pole position for the first time since 2006.* The group’s TV station, Al Aqsa, has become the No. 1 channel watched by Palestinians – by a margin of 15 percentage points. And 70 percent of Palestinians in the West Bank say they want to adopt Hamas’s armed approach. "
> 
> After Gaza war Hamas on a high but for how long video - CSMonitor.com
Click to expand...

Time is the Palestinian's greatest weapon, Demographics and growing militancy in the ME does not favor Israel.


----------



## Hossfly

pbel said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UK held the trump card many times over in Northern Ireland, but the Protestants had to compromise and eventually, the Catholics will takeover through demographics. Best that the Jews make a deal now that they are at the apex of their power and relative population difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think given what is occurring in the ME, it's in Israel's (and the Palestinian's) best interest to make a deal.  It's not necessarily demographics but the likely chance that the Israel, and it's Arab neighbors will need to work together to deal with ISIS, Iraq, Syria and Libya all of which are in a state of chaos. Settling the Palestinian issue now, while Hamas has lost a lot of support and popularity would be beneficial for it.  No one is going to support massive population transfers to another country though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> " According to a new poll of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh would trounce Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas were a two-man election to be held today.* That puts Hamas back in pole position for the first time since 2006.* The group’s TV station, Al Aqsa, has become the No. 1 channel watched by Palestinians – by a margin of 15 percentage points. And 70 percent of Palestinians in the West Bank say they want to adopt Hamas’s armed approach. "
> 
> After Gaza war Hamas on a high but for how long video - CSMonitor.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Time is the Palestinian's greatest weapon, Demographics and growing militancy in the ME does not favor Israel.
Click to expand...

...........while Israel's arsenal is growing. Checkmate.


----------



## montelatici

Hossfly said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UK held the trump card many times over in Northern Ireland, but the Protestants had to compromise and eventually, the Catholics will takeover through demographics. Best that the Jews make a deal now that they are at the apex of their power and relative population difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think given what is occurring in the ME, it's in Israel's (and the Palestinian's) best interest to make a deal.  It's not necessarily demographics but the likely chance that the Israel, and it's Arab neighbors will need to work together to deal with ISIS, Iraq, Syria and Libya all of which are in a state of chaos. Settling the Palestinian issue now, while Hamas has lost a lot of support and popularity would be beneficial for it.  No one is going to support massive population transfers to another country though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> " According to a new poll of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh would trounce Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas were a two-man election to be held today.* That puts Hamas back in pole position for the first time since 2006.* The group’s TV station, Al Aqsa, has become the No. 1 channel watched by Palestinians – by a margin of 15 percentage points. And 70 percent of Palestinians in the West Bank say they want to adopt Hamas’s armed approach. "
> 
> After Gaza war Hamas on a high but for how long video - CSMonitor.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Time is the Palestinian's greatest weapon, Demographics and growing militancy in the ME does not favor Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...........while Israel's arsenal is growing. Checkmate.
Click to expand...


So was the South African arsenal. Doesn't make a bit of difference.  Demographics are a bitch.


----------



## pbel

Hossfly said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UK held the trump card many times over in Northern Ireland, but the Protestants had to compromise and eventually, the Catholics will takeover through demographics. Best that the Jews make a deal now that they are at the apex of their power and relative population difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think given what is occurring in the ME, it's in Israel's (and the Palestinian's) best interest to make a deal.  It's not necessarily demographics but the likely chance that the Israel, and it's Arab neighbors will need to work together to deal with ISIS, Iraq, Syria and Libya all of which are in a state of chaos. Settling the Palestinian issue now, while Hamas has lost a lot of support and popularity would be beneficial for it.  No one is going to support massive population transfers to another country though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> " According to a new poll of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh would trounce Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas were a two-man election to be held today.* That puts Hamas back in pole position for the first time since 2006.* The group’s TV station, Al Aqsa, has become the No. 1 channel watched by Palestinians – by a margin of 15 percentage points. And 70 percent of Palestinians in the West Bank say they want to adopt Hamas’s armed approach. "
> 
> After Gaza war Hamas on a high but for how long video - CSMonitor.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Time is the Palestinian's greatest weapon, Demographics and growing militancy in the ME does not favor Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...........while Israel's arsenal is growing. Checkmate.
Click to expand...

Israel's Army is too small to occupy the vast tracks of land of her enemies...The small confined area of Israel is not conducive to Rocket warfare. 

Try peace, it might work.


----------



## Hossfly

Roudy said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd say the world is sick of Islamic animals like Hamas, ISIS, and Alqueda displaying their sick and depraved medieval savage mentality.
Click to expand...

Roudy 
They celebrate it like a religious holiday.

This week, we had another depressing illustration of what Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says is the defining moral difference between Israel and Hamas.

As The Jerusalem Post reports, thousands of mourners marched Tuesday in honor of two men who were the lead suspects in the murder of three Israeli teens.

The two dead men, Marwan Kawasme and Amar Abu Aysha, were both affiliated with Hamas, and were killed during a gun battle with Israeli troops. Mourners waved Hamas and Palestinian flags as they carried the two bodies through Hebron.

We’re talking about two men whose victims were not soldiers but three Israeli students.


Life and death with Hamas New York Post


----------



## pbel

Hossfly said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd say the world is sick of Islamic animals like Hamas, ISIS, and Alqueda displaying their sick and depraved medieval savage mentality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Roudy
> They celebrate it like a religious holiday.
> 
> This week, we had another depressing illustration of what Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says is the defining moral difference between Israel and Hamas.
> 
> As The Jerusalem Post reports, thousands of mourners marched Tuesday in honor of two men who were the lead suspects in the murder of three Israeli teens.
> 
> The two dead men, Marwan Kawasme and Amar Abu Aysha, were both affiliated with Hamas, and were killed during a gun battle with Israeli troops. Mourners waved Hamas and Palestinian flags as they carried the two bodies through Hebron.
> 
> We’re talking about two men whose victims were not soldiers but three Israeli students.
> 
> 
> Life and death with Hamas New York Post
Click to expand...

I see, how about this one? What say ye oracle of the mountain?

 Palestinian boy Mohammed Abu Khdeir was burned alive, says official


----------



## aris2chat

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
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> 
> Coyote said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> Coyote said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> 
> 
> There was no such thing as "Palestinians" before this conflict came to be.  There were only the occasional nomads passing through the area back then.  It was not inhabitable.  The Israelis MADE Israel/Gaza what it is today.
> 
> The Truth about the Palestinian People
> 
> The 1948 Israeli War of Independence was between the neighboring Arab countries and the newly formed state of Israel. The Arab countries did not send troops to help the people that are today known as _"Palestinians"_ but rather they sent troops to drive the Jews into the sea. Most of the _"Palestinian Arabs"_ fled to avoid the fighting. Remember, in 1948 they were not referred to as _"Palestinians"_. This name was was created by the Soviet disinformation masters in 1964 when they created the _Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO)_. The term_"Palestinian People"_ as a description of Arabs in Palestine appeared for the first time in the preamble of the 1964 PLO Charter, drafted in Moscow. The Charter was affirmed by the first 422 members of the Palestinian National Council, handpicked by the KGB. This term was formally used by newspapers around the world after 1967.
> 
> United Nations Resolution 181 recommended a partition of the territory from the British Mandate for Palestine into two states - one for Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. But the rejection of partition by the Arabs left in place as the legally operative Mandate for Palestine, the 1924 Anglo-American Convention, and Article 80 of the United Nations Charter. All of the Arab countries objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against its creation. This was Israel's War of Independence in 1948. Despite their superior numbers, the Arab countries lost the war and the Palestinian state never materialized because of this loss. In the war that was waged, the territory allotted to be the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was divided between Israel and Jordan. The _"Palestinian Arabs"_ were rejected by every single Arab country, with the exception of the small percentage that ended up in refugee camps in Jordan where they remain to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Multiple people have posted repeated links to historical data indicating that area was by no means inhabited by only "occasional nomads" but had a significant permanent population that had been there for centuries.  They myth that it was largely "uninhabited" other than "occassional nomads" is just that, a myth that has been thoroughly debunked.
> 
> Look at the source you are using and what it has to say about itself:
> 
> 
> 
> _Target Of Opportunity_
> _This website is a list and record of people that betray and endanger America by their Seditious, Treasonous, and/or Terrorist activities. Operating under the false illusion of Peaceful and Non-Violent activism, their methods are anything but Peaceful and Non-Violent. These people present a serious threat to all Americans. Each and every one of them should be considered a_
> _TARGET OF OPPORTUNITY_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the heck kind of site is that and why should anything it says be taken seriously?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is not the only source.  Multiple, multiple sources confirm the same data.  I've posted at LEAST 3 other links here that give the same data.  *There was NO Palestine*.  It is *a made-up place*.  It did not exist before the creation of Israel.  *It WAS a mostly uninhabitable territory owned* by Arab kings which was taken over by the British and mandated to become half a Jewish state and half an Arab state by the UN.  The Arabs would not accept that because of their BIGOTRY, and they tried to attack the Israelis, but the Israelis fought back and won, AND they won the land that you call "palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even if that were true, it still doesn't change the fact that it was a territory owned and controlled not by anyone known as a "palestinian," and that it is made up.  They were Arabs, and as you link states the "military" and those of foreign nationality are more than likely not permanent residents.
> 
> The land was owned by Arab kings and then by the British.  The Jewish people did not steal any land from anyone.  None of your links suggest that anyone is more entitled to this land than the people who it was given to, or who won over some territory during time of war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's owned by the indiginous people living there that have lived there and that now call themselves Palestinians.  They didn't just appear out of nowhere.
> 
> I'm not claiming entitlement of one group over another that broadly.  What I'm saying is that they have lived there and their rights should not be disregarded and you can't just move whole populations out of an area because they are inconvenient to your political or nationalistic ambitions.
> 
> Even when territory is taken by war - the people usually go with it and are subject to new rulers.  If Israel wants to keep WB and Gaza, then it can keep the people and gives them Israeli citizenship just like any other conquored country or it can ethnically cleanse the region and be comparable to Stalin who forceably moved ethnic minorities to Siberia and moved in ethnic Russians.
Click to expand...



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You did read that jews owned 10-20% of arable land, 40% was state owned and 40% was owned by the "church" and absentee landlords from other arab countries.
Bedouins had migration routes but did not own land.
The majority of land outside the towns and villages was not owned by "indigenous" arabs but rented, migrant workers, sharecropped or like feudal land worked by locals who had been in service to the owners for generations.
Much of the land was swamp, desert and rocky badlands.
Land owned by private individuals was allowed in the 19th century.  Most of the locals did not wanted to be registered as owners to avoid military service.  Even under the mandate they avoided registering land when offered to avoid conscription or paying taxes.
Jewish Armed Forces in the British Mandate
The 1834 arab revolt was over locals not being pressed into egyptian or ottoman military service or to pay the taxes.
Land ownership was divided into five different classifications.  Private ownership was not heard of for the local outside of the towns and cities till the ottoman opened the area up to jews and wealthy muslims from elsewhere in the empire in the first hald of the 19th century.  Till the end of the WWI most of the locals lived and thought only in terms of tribal or feudal terms.  They were not free to be land owners.
Just because there was a sizable percentage of the population listed as muslim does not meant they were or could be land owners.
Even today many of the land rights in the region are based on the old ottoman or tribal systems.


----------



## toastman

pbel said:


> Hossfly said:
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> pbel said:
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> montelatici said:
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> Coyote said:
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> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UK held the trump card many times over in Northern Ireland, but the Protestants had to compromise and eventually, the Catholics will takeover through demographics. Best that the Jews make a deal now that they are at the apex of their power and relative population difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think given what is occurring in the ME, it's in Israel's (and the Palestinian's) best interest to make a deal.  It's not necessarily demographics but the likely chance that the Israel, and it's Arab neighbors will need to work together to deal with ISIS, Iraq, Syria and Libya all of which are in a state of chaos. Settling the Palestinian issue now, while Hamas has lost a lot of support and popularity would be beneficial for it.  No one is going to support massive population transfers to another country though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> " According to a new poll of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh would trounce Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas were a two-man election to be held today.* That puts Hamas back in pole position for the first time since 2006.* The group’s TV station, Al Aqsa, has become the No. 1 channel watched by Palestinians – by a margin of 15 percentage points. And 70 percent of Palestinians in the West Bank say they want to adopt Hamas’s armed approach. "
> 
> After Gaza war Hamas on a high but for how long video - CSMonitor.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Time is the Palestinian's greatest weapon, Demographics and growing militancy in the ME does not favor Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...........while Israel's arsenal is growing. Checkmate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's Army is too small to occupy the vast tracks of land of her enemies...The small confined area of Israel is not conducive to Rocket warfare.
> 
> Try peace, it might work.
Click to expand...


Israel has tried to make peace, several times.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
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> 
> 
> 
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> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Phoenall said:
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> 
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> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were no "squatters".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were never land owners and were just travelling nomadic farm workers in the main. They acted just like the muslims of old and took what land they wanted until they had worn it out and then discarded it and moved on. 3 Times they stole Hebron from the Jews and 3 times they destroyed the land through lack of intelligence and laziness.
> 
> Now produce the treaty by the ottomans or LoN that gives the land of Palestine to the arab muslims..............
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For all practical purposes they were landowners and many of them were indiginous to the area.  As you may recall, even though there was an indiginous Jewish population in Palestine prior to immigration, there was a larger Arab population.
> 
> Land has shifted back and forth over the centuries if you have to attempt to go back that far it's meaningless.  If people have been living on land for generations - it is theirs for all effective purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No they refused to become land owners under the Ottomans as it meant paying taxes and being conscripted into the army. So they just ignored the requests and carried on being tenants or nomadic farm workers.
> 
> *Then because the Jews had been living on the land for 4,500 years by your criteria they have a more valid claim* than the arab muslims who can only go back 1400 years with gaps when they were driven out by invaders. Now back to International law that you don't like when it comes down in Israel's favour the LEGAL LAND OWNERS GAVE THE LAND TO THE JEWS BACK IN 1924 THEY DID NOT GIVE ANY TO THE ARAB MUSLIMS APART FROM JORDAN, SYRIA AND IRAQ.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By my criteria?
> 
> A handful of jews....somewhere between 10,000 and 15,000.  Attempting to go back thousands of years is blatently ridiculous - land and property rights varied considerably.  For example - in some regions all land belonged to a ruler, and the people were tenants.  Do you see how silly this is?
> 
> I support International Law.  It states that West Bank and Gaza are occupied territories and it recognizes Israel's right to exist.  Sounds good enough.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.
Click to expand...

Could you prove that point?


----------



## pbel

toastman said:


> pbel said:
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> Hossfly said:
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> pbel said:
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> montelatici said:
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> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think given what is occurring in the ME, it's in Israel's (and the Palestinian's) best interest to make a deal.  It's not necessarily demographics but the likely chance that the Israel, and it's Arab neighbors will need to work together to deal with ISIS, Iraq, Syria and Libya all of which are in a state of chaos. Settling the Palestinian issue now, while Hamas has lost a lot of support and popularity would be beneficial for it.  No one is going to support massive population transfers to another country though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> " According to a new poll of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh would trounce Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas were a two-man election to be held today.* That puts Hamas back in pole position for the first time since 2006.* The group’s TV station, Al Aqsa, has become the No. 1 channel watched by Palestinians – by a margin of 15 percentage points. And 70 percent of Palestinians in the West Bank say they want to adopt Hamas’s armed approach. "
> 
> After Gaza war Hamas on a high but for how long video - CSMonitor.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Time is the Palestinian's greatest weapon, Demographics and growing militancy in the ME does not favor Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...........while Israel's arsenal is growing. Checkmate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's Army is too small to occupy the vast tracks of land of her enemies...The small confined area of Israel is not conducive to Rocket warfare.
> 
> Try peace, it might work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel has tried to make peace, several times.
Click to expand...

Israel has tried to make peace offerings to keep its stolen gains...Not going to happen


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> ...Israel has tried to make peace offering to keep its stolen gains...Not going to happen


Define 's_tolen gains_' in this context.

How much of Old Palestine (pre May 15, 1948, or pre-1967) do you believe that the Jews are entitled to?


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## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, ChrisL,  _et al,_ 

There is a bit of truth on both sides here; at least from the intent.



P F Tinmore said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> Could you prove that point?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The territory was not given to either party by anyone.  Neither the Arab Palestinians or the Israelis were not given the territorial concessions by the Ottoman Empire, the Allied Powers of WWI, or the UN.

In one case _(Israeli)_ they were given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Israelis accepted.  Conversely, the other case _(Arab Palestinian)_ was given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Arab Palestinian declined.

The land was neither taken nor given.  The world community, having trusteeship, having written the declaration of principles, established the steps preparatory to independence.  In one case there was an acceptance of the principles and the steps ---- in the other case a rejection.

The argument, as I mentioned in Post #28 of the Bertrand Russell discussion, that the territory was “given” by a foreign Power to another people for the creation of a new State is not accurate in the representation of the sequence of events.  A "foreign power" did not act.  The land was never under Palestinian Sovereignty to be taken.  And the land was not judged exclusively apportioned to one party or the other.  It is the case that the Arab Palestinian chose not to participate in the implementation process.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## pbel

Kondor3 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Israel has tried to make peace offering to keep its stolen gains...Not going to happen
> 
> 
> 
> Define 's_tolen gains_' in this context.
> 
> How much of Old Palestine (pre May 15, 1948, or pre-1967) do you believe that the Jews are entitled to?
Click to expand...

Actually, the European and Zionist rape of Palestine is a crime against humanity, however if the Arabs are willing to cede part of it, that's fine with me, especially in light of the Holocaust and their Semitic origins.


----------



## pbel

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, ChrisL,  _et al,_
> 
> There is a bit of truth on both sides here; at least from the intent.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> Could you prove that point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The territory was not given to either party by anyone.  Neither the Arab Palestinians or the Israelis were not given the territorial concessions by the Ottoman Empire, the Allied Powers of WWI, or the UN.
> 
> *In one case (Israeli) they were given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Israelis accepted.  Conversely, the other case (Arab Palestinian) was given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Arab Palestinian declined*.
> 
> The land was neither taken nor given.  The world community, having trusteeship, having written the declaration of principles, established the steps preparatory to independence.  In one case there was an acceptance of the principles and the steps ---- in the other case a rejection.
> 
> The argument, as I mentioned in Post #28 of the Bertrand Russell discussion, that the territory was “given” by a foreign Power to another people for the creation of a new State is not accurate in the representation of the sequence of events.  A "foreign power" did not act.  The land was never under Palestinian Sovereignty to be taken.  And the land was not judged exclusively apportioned to one party or the other.  It is the case that the Arab Palestinian chose not to participate in the implementation process.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Where is my bullshit spray? The UN was under the COMPLETE CONTROL of the WESTERN POWERS at the time!


----------



## ChrisL

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, ChrisL,  _et al,_
> 
> There is a bit of truth on both sides here; at least from the intent.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> Could you prove that point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The territory was not given to either party by anyone.  Neither the Arab Palestinians or the Israelis were not given the territorial concessions by the Ottoman Empire, the Allied Powers of WWI, or the UN.
> 
> In one case _(Israeli)_ they were given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Israelis accepted.  Conversely, the other case _(Arab Palestinian)_ was given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Arab Palestinian declined.
> 
> The land was neither taken nor given.  The world community, having trusteeship, having written the declaration of principles, established the steps preparatory to independence.  In one case there was an acceptance of the principles and the steps ---- in the other case a rejection.
> 
> The argument, as I mentioned in Post #28 of the Bertrand Russell discussion, that the territory was “given” by a foreign Power to another people for the creation of a new State is not accurate in the representation of the sequence of events.  A "foreign power" did not act.  The land was never under Palestinian Sovereignty to be taken.  And the land was not judged exclusively apportioned to one party or the other.  It is the case that the Arab Palestinian chose not to participate in the implementation process.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


All of the links I have posted say that the territory was partitioned by the UN for 2 states, one Israel and one Palestine, and that was what the UN wished for, and America recognized Israel as a sovereign state immediately (one of my links says 11 minutes after the announcement by Israel).


----------



## ChrisL

pbel said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UK held the trump card many times over in Northern Ireland, but the Protestants had to compromise and eventually, the Catholics will takeover through demographics. Best that the Jews make a deal now that they are at the apex of their power and relative population difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think given what is occurring in the ME, it's in Israel's (and the Palestinian's) best interest to make a deal.  It's not necessarily demographics but the likely chance that the Israel, and it's Arab neighbors will need to work together to deal with ISIS, Iraq, Syria and Libya all of which are in a state of chaos. Settling the Palestinian issue now, while Hamas has lost a lot of support and popularity would be beneficial for it.  No one is going to support massive population transfers to another country though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> " According to a new poll of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh would trounce Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas were a two-man election to be held today.* That puts Hamas back in pole position for the first time since 2006.* The group’s TV station, Al Aqsa, has become the No. 1 channel watched by Palestinians – by a margin of 15 percentage points. And 70 percent of Palestinians in the West Bank say they want to adopt Hamas’s armed approach. "
> 
> After Gaza war Hamas on a high but for how long video - CSMonitor.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Time is the Palestinian's greatest weapon, Demographics and growing militancy in the ME does not favor Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...........while Israel's arsenal is growing. Checkmate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's Army is too small to occupy the vast tracks of land of her enemies...The small confined area of Israel is not conducive to Rocket warfare.
> 
> Try peace, it might work.
Click to expand...


Israel has the United States.  We will not allow anyone to attack Israel without stepping in.  I'm sure you MUST know this.


----------



## Phoenall

Get the "British allowed" or the "British gave" the British did nothing but act as caretakers of the land.  It was the LoN that invited the European Jews to migrate and settle in Palestine.  It was the people in other lands that were racist towards the Jews, people just like you that hide your racism inexpertly. Was it the Jews that threw the Germans into death campd solely because of their race and religion.
How can a people be made up very simply just look at America that was never white Christian but red great spirit. How can you call yourself American when you are an invader. The arab muslims are the same they were called Syrians until Arafat stole the term Palestinian in 1960 to give their claims credence and credibility. That is how the country and name were made up for the arab muslims.

  How about the verse in the Koran then that claims god gave the world to the muslims his chosen people to rule in his name. Not Saudi Arabia or Palestine but the WHOLE WORLD including your property


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Coyote said:
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> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only reason why they are there is because Israel ALLOWS them to be there.  Probably not for much longer though, and who could blame them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's a price to pay for ethnic cleansing of indiginous peoples.  South Africa tried that with it's so-called African "homelands" - islands of semi-autonomous (resource poor) areas where the blacks could live seperate from the whites.  Stalin tried that when he forceably moved ethnic groups out of areas and ethnic-Russians into those areas to dilute populations.  It leaves a long term stain on the national character of a nation particularly when land theft is also involved as would be the case in West Bank and Gaza.  People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation and culture.  That is something the Jews themselves reiterate.  How can you then justify doing that to another people?  You can't.  Israel has been no angel in this affair either.  They need to stop the settlement building and both sides need t negotiate for a long term solution that most likely will involve two states  and land swaps.  I don't see any other way that would not produce a humanitarian nightmare by forcing a diaspora on a people that the Jews themselves experienced.  It's so ironic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as "Palestinians" before this conflict came to be.  There were only the occasional nomads passing through the area back then.  It was not inhabitable.  The Israelis MADE Israel/Gaza what it is today.
> 
> The Truth about the Palestinian People
> 
> The 1948 Israeli War of Independence was between the neighboring Arab countries and the newly formed state of Israel. The Arab countries did not send troops to help the people that are today known as _"Palestinians"_ but rather they sent troops to drive the Jews into the sea. Most of the _"Palestinian Arabs"_ fled to avoid the fighting. Remember, in 1948 they were not referred to as _"Palestinians"_. This name was was created by the Soviet disinformation masters in 1964 when they created the _Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO)_. The term_"Palestinian People"_ as a description of Arabs in Palestine appeared for the first time in the preamble of the 1964 PLO Charter, drafted in Moscow. The Charter was affirmed by the first 422 members of the Palestinian National Council, handpicked by the KGB. This term was formally used by newspapers around the world after 1967.
> 
> United Nations Resolution 181 recommended a partition of the territory from the British Mandate for Palestine into two states - one for Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. But the rejection of partition by the Arabs left in place as the legally operative Mandate for Palestine, the 1924 Anglo-American Convention, and Article 80 of the United Nations Charter. All of the Arab countries objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against its creation. This was Israel's War of Independence in 1948. Despite their superior numbers, the Arab countries lost the war and the Palestinian state never materialized because of this loss. In the war that was waged, the territory allotted to be the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was divided between Israel and Jordan. The _"Palestinian Arabs"_ were rejected by every single Arab country, with the exception of the small percentage that ended up in refugee camps in Jordan where they remain to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Multiple people have posted repeated links to historical data indicating that area was by no means inhabited by only "occasional nomads" but had a significant permanent population that had been there for centuries.  They myth that it was largely "uninhabited" other than "occassional nomads" is just that, a myth that has been thoroughly debunked.
> 
> Look at the source you are using and what it has to say about itself:
> 
> 
> 
> _Target Of Opportunity_
> _This website is a list and record of people that betray and endanger America by their Seditious, Treasonous, and/or Terrorist activities. Operating under the false illusion of Peaceful and Non-Violent activism, their methods are anything but Peaceful and Non-Violent. These people present a serious threat to all Americans. Each and every one of them should be considered a_
> _TARGET OF OPPORTUNITY_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the heck kind of site is that and why should anything it says be taken seriously?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is not the only source.  Multiple, multiple sources confirm the same data.  I've posted at LEAST 3 other links here that give the same data.  There was NO Palestine.  It is a made-up place.  It did not exist before the creation of Israel.  It WAS a mostly uninhabitable territory owned by Arab kings which was taken over by the British and mandated to become half a Jewish state and half an Arab state by the UN.  The Arabs would not accept that because of their BIGOTRY, and they tried to attack the Israelis, but the Israelis fought back and won, AND they won the land that you call "palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly* 700,000 people*, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*_See_ Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) *Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages*.* Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems.* *A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs*; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. *Some 77,000 of the population are Christians*, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.
> 
> *The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000.* Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. *Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews*. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> From the UN/LoN archives.  You are just spreading Zionist propaganda.  The fact is that the majority of Christians and Muslims lived in cities and towns.
> 
> I rest my case.
Click to expand...




 You rest your case on a false premise and document shown to be a work of fiction.


----------



## pbel

ChrisL said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think given what is occurring in the ME, it's in Israel's (and the Palestinian's) best interest to make a deal.  It's not necessarily demographics but the likely chance that the Israel, and it's Arab neighbors will need to work together to deal with ISIS, Iraq, Syria and Libya all of which are in a state of chaos. Settling the Palestinian issue now, while Hamas has lost a lot of support and popularity would be beneficial for it.  No one is going to support massive population transfers to another country though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> " According to a new poll of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh would trounce Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas were a two-man election to be held today.* That puts Hamas back in pole position for the first time since 2006.* The group’s TV station, Al Aqsa, has become the No. 1 channel watched by Palestinians – by a margin of 15 percentage points. And 70 percent of Palestinians in the West Bank say they want to adopt Hamas’s armed approach. "
> 
> After Gaza war Hamas on a high but for how long video - CSMonitor.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Time is the Palestinian's greatest weapon, Demographics and growing militancy in the ME does not favor Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...........while Israel's arsenal is growing. Checkmate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's Army is too small to occupy the vast tracks of land of her enemies...The small confined area of Israel is not conducive to Rocket warfare.
> 
> Try peace, it might work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel has the United States.  We will not allow anyone to attack Israel without stepping in.  I'm sure you MUST know this.
Click to expand...

If the Arab Nation does not accept Israel then this War of Attrition will last for hundreds of years if need be...That's how the Arabs kicked out the Crusaders, Brits, Turks and etc. Time is on the side of the Arabs...America is a declining power at this time, her wars with Islamic countries is starting to bankrupt her financially and morally...The UN General Assembly is no longer controlled by Israel's sponsors...In time there will be armament parity in the ME and Demographically Israel is outnumbered by staggering numbers...

Her odds of long-term survival without a peace deal is very very small.


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Israel has tried to make peace offering to keep its stolen gains...Not going to happen
> 
> 
> 
> Define 's_tolen gains_' in this context.
> 
> How much of Old Palestine (pre May 15, 1948, or pre-1967) do you believe that the Jews are entitled to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, the European and Zionist rape of Palestine is a crime against humanity, however if the Arabs are willing to cede part of it, that's fine with me, especially in light of the Holocaust and their Semitic origins.
Click to expand...

Your answer seems to leave little room for ambiguity.

Are we to construe by your latest that you believe that the Jews are entitled to nothing of Old Palestine, large enough to create a sustainable nation-state?


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only reason why they are there is because Israel ALLOWS them to be there.  Probably not for much longer though, and who could blame them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's a price to pay for ethnic cleansing of indiginous peoples.  South Africa tried that with it's so-called African "homelands" - islands of semi-autonomous (resource poor) areas where the blacks could live seperate from the whites.  Stalin tried that when he forceably moved ethnic groups out of areas and ethnic-Russians into those areas to dilute populations.  It leaves a long term stain on the national character of a nation particularly when land theft is also involved as would be the case in West Bank and Gaza.  People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation and culture.  That is something the Jews themselves reiterate.  How can you then justify doing that to another people?  You can't.  Israel has been no angel in this affair either.  They need to stop the settlement building and both sides need t negotiate for a long term solution that most likely will involve two states  and land swaps.  I don't see any other way that would not produce a humanitarian nightmare by forcing a diaspora on a people that the Jews themselves experienced.  It's so ironic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as "Palestinians" before this conflict came to be.  There were only the occasional nomads passing through the area back then.  It was not inhabitable.  The Israelis MADE Israel/Gaza what it is today.
> 
> The Truth about the Palestinian People
> 
> The 1948 Israeli War of Independence was between the neighboring Arab countries and the newly formed state of Israel. The Arab countries did not send troops to help the people that are today known as _"Palestinians"_ but rather they sent troops to drive the Jews into the sea. Most of the _"Palestinian Arabs"_ fled to avoid the fighting. Remember, in 1948 they were not referred to as _"Palestinians"_. This name was was created by the Soviet disinformation masters in 1964 when they created the _Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO)_. The term_"Palestinian People"_ as a description of Arabs in Palestine appeared for the first time in the preamble of the 1964 PLO Charter, drafted in Moscow. The Charter was affirmed by the first 422 members of the Palestinian National Council, handpicked by the KGB. This term was formally used by newspapers around the world after 1967.
> 
> United Nations Resolution 181 recommended a partition of the territory from the British Mandate for Palestine into two states - one for Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. But the rejection of partition by the Arabs left in place as the legally operative Mandate for Palestine, the 1924 Anglo-American Convention, and Article 80 of the United Nations Charter. All of the Arab countries objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against its creation. This was Israel's War of Independence in 1948. Despite their superior numbers, the Arab countries lost the war and the Palestinian state never materialized because of this loss. In the war that was waged, the territory allotted to be the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was divided between Israel and Jordan. The _"Palestinian Arabs"_ were rejected by every single Arab country, with the exception of the small percentage that ended up in refugee camps in Jordan where they remain to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Multiple people have posted repeated links to historical data indicating that area was by no means inhabited by only "occasional nomads" but had a significant permanent population that had been there for centuries.  They myth that it was largely "uninhabited" other than "occassional nomads" is just that, a myth that has been thoroughly debunked.
> 
> Look at the source you are using and what it has to say about itself:
> 
> 
> 
> _Target Of Opportunity_
> _This website is a list and record of people that betray and endanger America by their Seditious, Treasonous, and/or Terrorist activities. Operating under the false illusion of Peaceful and Non-Violent activism, their methods are anything but Peaceful and Non-Violent. These people present a serious threat to all Americans. Each and every one of them should be considered a_
> _TARGET OF OPPORTUNITY_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the heck kind of site is that and why should anything it says be taken seriously?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is not the only source.  Multiple, multiple sources confirm the same data.  I've posted at LEAST 3 other links here that give the same data.  *There was NO Palestine*.  It is *a made-up place*.  It did not exist before the creation of Israel.  *It WAS a mostly uninhabitable territory owned* by Arab kings which was taken over by the British and mandated to become half a Jewish state and half an Arab state by the UN.  The Arabs would not accept that because of their BIGOTRY, and they tried to attack the Israelis, but the Israelis fought back and won, AND they won the land that you call "palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
Click to expand...




 Always been team Israel's ground rules that Palestine was never a nation just an undefined area in the M.E.

 It was a population in constant flux with highs and lows throughout history but it never reached it occupational density of pre roman times after the diaspora. Even the arab muslims shunned the land because it was too harsh and not easily tamed.

The people who inhabited the region did exist, but arab muslims did not for 700 years after the diaspora. Then after holding control of a small part they were beaten and expelled by the Crusaders.

The census is correct but I wonder how many of those muslims were arab and how many were Turkish, Egyptian or Iranian  all non arab muslims . I also wonder how many people were refused the right to fill in the census forms, or duplicated the forms. This happened in the Palestinian territories only a short time ago so that UNWRA could get more money for the terrorists.


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> ...If the Arab Nation does not accept Israel...


I am unaware of the existence of an 'Arab Nation'. Do you mean the Ummah?


----------



## pbel

Kondor3 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Israel has tried to make peace offering to keep its stolen gains...Not going to happen
> 
> 
> 
> Define 's_tolen gains_' in this context.
> 
> How much of Old Palestine (pre May 15, 1948, or pre-1967) do you believe that the Jews are entitled to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, the European and Zionist rape of Palestine is a crime against humanity, however if the Arabs are willing to cede part of it, that's fine with me, especially in light of the Holocaust and their Semitic origins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your answer seems to leave little room for ambiguity.
> 
> Are we to construe by your latest that you believe that the Jews are entitled to nothing of Old Palestine, large enough to create a sustainable nation-state?
Click to expand...

Entitlement is not the question, it is of Justice...Mankind has to move in that direction and stop killing each other over possessions by force...

I personally hope that they share Jerusalem and define the present green line with amicable land swaps as the border to a two-state solution.


----------



## ChrisL

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's a price to pay for ethnic cleansing of indiginous peoples.  South Africa tried that with it's so-called African "homelands" - islands of semi-autonomous (resource poor) areas where the blacks could live seperate from the whites.  Stalin tried that when he forceably moved ethnic groups out of areas and ethnic-Russians into those areas to dilute populations.  It leaves a long term stain on the national character of a nation particularly when land theft is also involved as would be the case in West Bank and Gaza.  People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation and culture.  That is something the Jews themselves reiterate.  How can you then justify doing that to another people?  You can't.  Israel has been no angel in this affair either.  They need to stop the settlement building and both sides need t negotiate for a long term solution that most likely will involve two states  and land swaps.  I don't see any other way that would not produce a humanitarian nightmare by forcing a diaspora on a people that the Jews themselves experienced.  It's so ironic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as "Palestinians" before this conflict came to be.  There were only the occasional nomads passing through the area back then.  It was not inhabitable.  The Israelis MADE Israel/Gaza what it is today.
> 
> The Truth about the Palestinian People
> 
> The 1948 Israeli War of Independence was between the neighboring Arab countries and the newly formed state of Israel. The Arab countries did not send troops to help the people that are today known as _"Palestinians"_ but rather they sent troops to drive the Jews into the sea. Most of the _"Palestinian Arabs"_ fled to avoid the fighting. Remember, in 1948 they were not referred to as _"Palestinians"_. This name was was created by the Soviet disinformation masters in 1964 when they created the _Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO)_. The term_"Palestinian People"_ as a description of Arabs in Palestine appeared for the first time in the preamble of the 1964 PLO Charter, drafted in Moscow. The Charter was affirmed by the first 422 members of the Palestinian National Council, handpicked by the KGB. This term was formally used by newspapers around the world after 1967.
> 
> United Nations Resolution 181 recommended a partition of the territory from the British Mandate for Palestine into two states - one for Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. But the rejection of partition by the Arabs left in place as the legally operative Mandate for Palestine, the 1924 Anglo-American Convention, and Article 80 of the United Nations Charter. All of the Arab countries objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against its creation. This was Israel's War of Independence in 1948. Despite their superior numbers, the Arab countries lost the war and the Palestinian state never materialized because of this loss. In the war that was waged, the territory allotted to be the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was divided between Israel and Jordan. The _"Palestinian Arabs"_ were rejected by every single Arab country, with the exception of the small percentage that ended up in refugee camps in Jordan where they remain to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Multiple people have posted repeated links to historical data indicating that area was by no means inhabited by only "occasional nomads" but had a significant permanent population that had been there for centuries.  They myth that it was largely "uninhabited" other than "occassional nomads" is just that, a myth that has been thoroughly debunked.
> 
> Look at the source you are using and what it has to say about itself:
> 
> 
> 
> _Target Of Opportunity_
> _This website is a list and record of people that betray and endanger America by their Seditious, Treasonous, and/or Terrorist activities. Operating under the false illusion of Peaceful and Non-Violent activism, their methods are anything but Peaceful and Non-Violent. These people present a serious threat to all Americans. Each and every one of them should be considered a_
> _TARGET OF OPPORTUNITY_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the heck kind of site is that and why should anything it says be taken seriously?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is not the only source.  Multiple, multiple sources confirm the same data.  I've posted at LEAST 3 other links here that give the same data.  *There was NO Palestine*.  It is *a made-up place*.  It did not exist before the creation of Israel.  *It WAS a mostly uninhabitable territory owned* by Arab kings which was taken over by the British and mandated to become half a Jewish state and half an Arab state by the UN.  The Arabs would not accept that because of their BIGOTRY, and they tried to attack the Israelis, but the Israelis fought back and won, AND they won the land that you call "palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Always been team Israel's ground rules that Palestine was never a nation just an undefined area in the M.E.
> 
> It was a population in constant flux with highs and lows throughout history but it never reached it occupational density of pre roman times after the diaspora. Even the arab muslims shunned the land because it was too harsh and not easily tamed.
> 
> The people who inhabited the region did exist, but arab muslims did not for 700 years after the diaspora. Then after holding control of a small part they were beaten and expelled by the Crusaders.
> 
> The census is correct but I wonder how many of those muslims were arab and how many were Turkish, Egyptian or Iranian  all non arab muslims . I also wonder how many people were refused the right to fill in the census forms, or duplicated the forms. This happened in the Palestinian territories only a short time ago so that UNWRA could get more money for the terrorists.
Click to expand...


I wouldn't put ANYTHING past them.


----------



## pbel

Kondor3 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...If the Arab Nation does not accept Israel...
> 
> 
> 
> I am unaware of the existence of an 'Arab Nation'. Do you mean the Ummah?
Click to expand...

Linguistic and Cultural.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> The other bit of propaganda is that the Jews had fewer numbers and military power  than the Arabs.  The Palestinians would have been either massacred or ethnically cleansed by the Jews whether the attempt by the Arab states to prevent their ethnic cleansing occurred or not.
> 
> 
> "In short, the Palestinians had no significant military capacity. They were a typical colonial society. Already before May 1948, they had suffered at least 5,000 casualties. While the Israelis talked of the threat of an Arab-inflicted holocaust, “They were fully aware that the Arab war rhetoric was in no way matched by any serious preparation on the ground.”
> 
> Fourth, in every category, the Zionists had overwhelming superiority. Since much of the information in this section was sternly denied for years I have checked what I have collected against the two major and more recent Israeli accounts, both of which were derived from Israeli military and political archives........By May 1948, the Haganah numbered 35,700 standing troops of whom 2,200 were the Special Forces of Palmach. That is, as Benny Morris pointed out, the Yishuv army numbered some 5,500 more soldiers than the combined strength of the regular Arab armies and paramilitary Palestinian forces. In addition, Haganah could draw on 9,500 members of the paramilitary youth corps. By July 1948, when the Haganah was renamed the Israel Defense Force, it had 63,000 men under arms. Perhaps more important than numbers, it had a command and control capability that allowed it to conduct division-size or multiple-brigade, operations. No Arab force even remotely approached its power."
> 
> In 1948 Jewish Forces in Palestine outnumbered Palestinian and Arab Fighters Informed Comment





 Now how many standing troops and armaments did the combined arab armies have monti. How many tanks, fighter planes, bombers and fighting ships compared to the Israelis Lee Enfield single shot rifles, tractors covered in steel sheets and WW1 guns. How many Jews did the Palestinians mass murder from 1890 to 1948 causing the Jews to form defence groups to fight back against arab nationalism ( read national socialism or Nazi ) You can bluster all you want but the evidence is out there for all to see about ISLAMONAZI atrocities and mass murders leading up to the war of 1948. The arabs thought that the Jews would just roll over and give up, and it was a shock when they fought back and gave the arabs a beating they would call the nakba. What a loss of honour that was for the arabs to be beaten by a rag tag army of old men and young boys armed with muzzle loaders and pitch forks.


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Israel has tried to make peace offering to keep its stolen gains...Not going to happen
> 
> 
> 
> Define 's_tolen gains_' in this context.
> 
> How much of Old Palestine (pre May 15, 1948, or pre-1967) do you believe that the Jews are entitled to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, the European and Zionist rape of Palestine is a crime against humanity, however if the Arabs are willing to cede part of it, that's fine with me, especially in light of the Holocaust and their Semitic origins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your answer seems to leave little room for ambiguity.
> 
> Are we to construe by your latest that you believe that the Jews are entitled to nothing of Old Palestine, large enough to create a sustainable nation-state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Entitlement is not the question, it is of Justice...Mankind has to move in that direction and stop killing each other over possessions by force...
> 
> I personally hope that they share Jerusalem and define the present green line with amicable land swaps as the border to a two-state solution.
Click to expand...

That was not the question.

A straightforward 'yes' or 'no' answer will do nicely in response to the 'Are we to construe...' question. Thank you.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "In short, the Palestinians had no significant military capacity. They were a typical colonial society. Already before May 1948, they had suffered at least 5,000 casualties. While the Israelis talked of the threat of an Arab-inflicted holocaust, “They were fully aware that the Arab war rhetoric was in no way matched by any serious preparation on the ground.”
> 
> 
> 
> Juan Cole drivelaggio.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just facts, son.
Click to expand...




 No ISLAMONAZI partial facts that meet with mohameds POV


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...If the Arab Nation does not accept Israel...
> 
> 
> 
> I am unaware of the existence of an 'Arab Nation'. Do you mean the Ummah?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Linguistic and Cultural.
Click to expand...

Given that slitting each others' throats is the favorite linguistic and cultural pasttime of our Arab friends, I doubt the Jews of Israel need worry overly much about that.


----------



## pbel

Kondor3 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Israel has tried to make peace offering to keep its stolen gains...Not going to happen
> 
> 
> 
> Define 's_tolen gains_' in this context.
> 
> How much of Old Palestine (pre May 15, 1948, or pre-1967) do you believe that the Jews are entitled to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, the European and Zionist rape of Palestine is a crime against humanity, however if the Arabs are willing to cede part of it, that's fine with me, especially in light of the Holocaust and their Semitic origins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your answer seems to leave little room for ambiguity.
> 
> Are we to construe by your latest that you believe that the Jews are entitled to nothing of Old Palestine, large enough to create a sustainable nation-state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Entitlement is not the question, it is of Justice...Mankind has to move in that direction and stop killing each other over possessions by force...
> 
> I personally hope that they share Jerusalem and define the present green line with amicable land swaps as the border to a two-state solution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was not the question.
> 
> A straightforward 'yes' or 'no' answer will do nicely in response to the 'Are we to construe...' question. Thank you.
Click to expand...

Oh, how about FU, who made you a prosecutor for the ZioNazis?


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as "Palestinians" before this conflict came to be.  There were only the occasional nomads passing through the area back then.  It was not inhabitable.  The Israelis MADE Israel/Gaza what it is today.
> 
> The Truth about the Palestinian People
> 
> The 1948 Israeli War of Independence was between the neighboring Arab countries and the newly formed state of Israel. The Arab countries did not send troops to help the people that are today known as _"Palestinians"_ but rather they sent troops to drive the Jews into the sea. Most of the _"Palestinian Arabs"_ fled to avoid the fighting. Remember, in 1948 they were not referred to as _"Palestinians"_. This name was was created by the Soviet disinformation masters in 1964 when they created the _Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO)_. The term_"Palestinian People"_ as a description of Arabs in Palestine appeared for the first time in the preamble of the 1964 PLO Charter, drafted in Moscow. The Charter was affirmed by the first 422 members of the Palestinian National Council, handpicked by the KGB. This term was formally used by newspapers around the world after 1967.
> 
> United Nations Resolution 181 recommended a partition of the territory from the British Mandate for Palestine into two states - one for Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. But the rejection of partition by the Arabs left in place as the legally operative Mandate for Palestine, the 1924 Anglo-American Convention, and Article 80 of the United Nations Charter. All of the Arab countries objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against its creation. This was Israel's War of Independence in 1948. Despite their superior numbers, the Arab countries lost the war and the Palestinian state never materialized because of this loss. In the war that was waged, the territory allotted to be the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was divided between Israel and Jordan. The _"Palestinian Arabs"_ were rejected by every single Arab country, with the exception of the small percentage that ended up in refugee camps in Jordan where they remain to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Multiple people have posted repeated links to historical data indicating that area was by no means inhabited by only "occasional nomads" but had a significant permanent population that had been there for centuries.  They myth that it was largely "uninhabited" other than "occassional nomads" is just that, a myth that has been thoroughly debunked.
> 
> Look at the source you are using and what it has to say about itself:
> 
> 
> 
> _Target Of Opportunity_
> _This website is a list and record of people that betray and endanger America by their Seditious, Treasonous, and/or Terrorist activities. Operating under the false illusion of Peaceful and Non-Violent activism, their methods are anything but Peaceful and Non-Violent. These people present a serious threat to all Americans. Each and every one of them should be considered a_
> _TARGET OF OPPORTUNITY_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the heck kind of site is that and why should anything it says be taken seriously?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is not the only source.  Multiple, multiple sources confirm the same data.  I've posted at LEAST 3 other links here that give the same data.  *There was NO Palestine*.  It is *a made-up place*.  It did not exist before the creation of Israel.  *It WAS a mostly uninhabitable territory owned* by Arab kings which was taken over by the British and mandated to become half a Jewish state and half an Arab state by the UN.  The Arabs would not accept that because of their BIGOTRY, and they tried to attack the Israelis, but the Israelis fought back and won, AND they won the land that you call "palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even if that were true, it still doesn't change the fact that it was a territory owned and controlled not by anyone known as a "palestinian," and that it is made up.  They were Arabs, and as you link states the "military" and those of foreign nationality are more than likely not permanent residents.
> 
> The land was owned by Arab kings and then by the British.  The Jewish people did not steal any land from anyone.  None of your links suggest that anyone is more entitled to this land than the people who it was given to, or who won over some territory during time of war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's owned by the indiginous people living there that have lived there and that now call themselves Palestinians.  They didn't just appear out of nowhere.
> 
> I'm not claiming entitlement of one group over another that broadly.  What I'm saying is that they have lived there and their rights should not be disregarded and you can't just move whole populations out of an area because they are inconvenient to your political or nationalistic ambitions.
> 
> Even when territory is taken by war - the people usually go with it and are subject to new rulers.  If Israel wants to keep WB and Gaza, then it can keep the people and gives them Israeli citizenship just like any other conquored country or it can ethnically cleanse the region and be comparable to Stalin who forceably moved ethnic minorities to Siberia and moved in ethnic Russians.
Click to expand...




 Actually they did mostly from the direction of Syria and Egypt on the promise of work.

 I am claiming entitlement based on Customary International Law and international treaties that gave 77% of the land to the arab muslims and 23% to the Jews. What happened was the arabs then forcibly moved the Jews out of arab controlled territory against the Mandate rules because they were inconvenient to the arab nationalists ( neo Nazis ) political and nationalist ambitions.

Israel has already relinquished its occupation of gaza and handed control to the muslims living there. Part of the Oslo accords that the Palestinians demanded as a pre condition to peace talks. The west bank was mostly owned by Jews before the 1948 war and they were thrown of their property by the Palestinian muslims . The same Palestinian muslims that tried to throw the Jordanians of their land until they retaliated and shot 50,000 as an object lesson.
So are you now comparing the Palestinians to Stalin as they forced 500,000 Jews to leave their land and property and moved arab muslims into their homes.


----------



## docmauser1

pbel said:


> Time is the Palestinian's greatest weapon, Demographics and growing militancy in the ME does not favor Israel.


No telling he depth of the arab obsession with dreams of driving jews out and plundering jewish property, indeed!


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure that is what Israel has tried to do, and they do have some palestinians in their midst who do NOT want anything to do with the "palestinian" state.  It is not Israel's fault that they are surrounded by intolerant bigots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's why the only workable solution is a 2-state solution where both sides must give up some of their ambitions in order to secure peace and security.
Click to expand...




 Only problem is the Palestinians are refusing to give anything up and just keep demanding more pre conditions


----------



## Slyhunter

Elections are coming. Obama will be gone. And then Palestinians will be crushed. Let the two sides fight it out and who ever lives gets the land.


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's a price to pay for ethnic cleansing of indiginous peoples.  South Africa tried that with it's so-called African "homelands" - islands of semi-autonomous (resource poor) areas where the blacks could live seperate from the whites.  Stalin tried that when he forceably moved ethnic groups out of areas and ethnic-Russians into those areas to dilute populations.  It leaves a long term stain on the national character of a nation particularly when land theft is also involved as would be the case in West Bank and Gaza.  People are tied to their lands by generations of habitation and culture.  That is something the Jews themselves reiterate.  How can you then justify doing that to another people?  You can't.  Israel has been no angel in this affair either.  They need to stop the settlement building and both sides need t negotiate for a long term solution that most likely will involve two states  and land swaps.  I don't see any other way that would not produce a humanitarian nightmare by forcing a diaspora on a people that the Jews themselves experienced.  It's so ironic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as "Palestinians" before this conflict came to be.  There were only the occasional nomads passing through the area back then.  It was not inhabitable.  The Israelis MADE Israel/Gaza what it is today.
> 
> The Truth about the Palestinian People
> 
> The 1948 Israeli War of Independence was between the neighboring Arab countries and the newly formed state of Israel. The Arab countries did not send troops to help the people that are today known as _"Palestinians"_ but rather they sent troops to drive the Jews into the sea. Most of the _"Palestinian Arabs"_ fled to avoid the fighting. Remember, in 1948 they were not referred to as _"Palestinians"_. This name was was created by the Soviet disinformation masters in 1964 when they created the _Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO)_. The term_"Palestinian People"_ as a description of Arabs in Palestine appeared for the first time in the preamble of the 1964 PLO Charter, drafted in Moscow. The Charter was affirmed by the first 422 members of the Palestinian National Council, handpicked by the KGB. This term was formally used by newspapers around the world after 1967.
> 
> United Nations Resolution 181 recommended a partition of the territory from the British Mandate for Palestine into two states - one for Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. But the rejection of partition by the Arabs left in place as the legally operative Mandate for Palestine, the 1924 Anglo-American Convention, and Article 80 of the United Nations Charter. All of the Arab countries objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against its creation. This was Israel's War of Independence in 1948. Despite their superior numbers, the Arab countries lost the war and the Palestinian state never materialized because of this loss. In the war that was waged, the territory allotted to be the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was divided between Israel and Jordan. The _"Palestinian Arabs"_ were rejected by every single Arab country, with the exception of the small percentage that ended up in refugee camps in Jordan where they remain to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Multiple people have posted repeated links to historical data indicating that area was by no means inhabited by only "occasional nomads" but had a significant permanent population that had been there for centuries.  They myth that it was largely "uninhabited" other than "occassional nomads" is just that, a myth that has been thoroughly debunked.
> 
> Look at the source you are using and what it has to say about itself:
> 
> 
> 
> _Target Of Opportunity_
> _This website is a list and record of people that betray and endanger America by their Seditious, Treasonous, and/or Terrorist activities. Operating under the false illusion of Peaceful and Non-Violent activism, their methods are anything but Peaceful and Non-Violent. These people present a serious threat to all Americans. Each and every one of them should be considered a_
> _TARGET OF OPPORTUNITY_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the heck kind of site is that and why should anything it says be taken seriously?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is not the only source.  Multiple, multiple sources confirm the same data.  I've posted at LEAST 3 other links here that give the same data.  *There was NO Palestine*.  It is *a made-up place*.  It did not exist before the creation of Israel.  *It WAS a mostly uninhabitable territory owned* by Arab kings which was taken over by the British and mandated to become half a Jewish state and half an Arab state by the UN.  The Arabs would not accept that because of their BIGOTRY, and they tried to attack the Israelis, but the Israelis fought back and won, AND they won the land that you call "palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Always been team Israel's ground rules that Palestine was never a nation just an undefined area in the M.E.
> 
> It was a population in constant flux with highs and lows throughout history but it never reached it occupational density of pre roman times after the diaspora. Even the arab muslims shunned the land because it was too harsh and not easily tamed.
> 
> The people who inhabited the region did exist, but arab muslims did not for 700 years after the diaspora. Then after holding control of a small part they were beaten and expelled by the Crusaders.
> 
> The census is correct but I wonder how many of those muslims were arab and how many were Turkish, Egyptian or Iranian  all non arab muslims . I also wonder how many people were refused the right to fill in the census forms, or duplicated the forms. This happened in the Palestinian territories only a short time ago so that UNWRA could get more money for the terrorists.
Click to expand...


A load of bullshit as usual.

Palestinians, people of the Roman provinces of Palestina have been of many religions ranging from those that worshiped the Roman religions, Judaism, Christianity and most recently Islam.  They are the same people whatever the religion or language they speak.  

In fact, Palestine has always been one of the most fertile of the Middle East and there were few areas not being cultivated in the late 1800s, as confirmed by Ahad Ha'am after one of his visits to the area in the late 1800s:

"We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."

David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian

As far as the demographic make up prior to the 1850s and after we have confirmation of that to via the Mandatory's Interim Report of 1921, which confirms that there were but a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850 and that the Muslims made up four fifths of the population in 1921.and that they were not Arabs (only Bedouins are pure Arabians), but of mixed race, which is what Palestinians have always been:

"Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.....  Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews"

. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921


----------



## docmauser1

pbel said:


> Where is my bullshit spray? The UN was under the COMPLETE CONTROL of the WESTERN POWERS at the time!


Guess, it's bullshit spray thing in action! Awesome!


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Define 's_tolen gains_' in this context.
> 
> How much of Old Palestine (pre May 15, 1948, or pre-1967) do you believe that the Jews are entitled to?
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the European and Zionist rape of Palestine is a crime against humanity, however if the Arabs are willing to cede part of it, that's fine with me, especially in light of the Holocaust and their Semitic origins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your answer seems to leave little room for ambiguity.
> 
> Are we to construe by your latest that you believe that the Jews are entitled to nothing of Old Palestine, large enough to create a sustainable nation-state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Entitlement is not the question, it is of Justice...Mankind has to move in that direction and stop killing each other over possessions by force...
> 
> I personally hope that they share Jerusalem and define the present green line with amicable land swaps as the border to a two-state solution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was not the question.
> 
> A straightforward 'yes' or 'no' answer will do nicely in response to the 'Are we to construe...' question. Thank you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, how about FU, who made you a prosecutor for the ZioNazis?
Click to expand...

Translation: "_I don't have the courage to give you a straight answer, so, when you catch me deflecting, and try to coax me into a more honest response rather than calling me out, I'll just act like you called me out, regardless, and tell you to go phukk yourself._"

Message received.


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921.


Yeah, yeah, yeah, the brits hadn't have given 75% of the mandate palestine to emir Abdullah, yet, of course. We know.


----------



## aris2chat

Slyhunter said:


> Elections are coming. Obama will be gone. And then Palestinians will be crushed. Let the two sides fight it out and who ever lives gets the land.



11:59 am on January 20, 2017


----------



## aris2chat

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as "Palestinians" before this conflict came to be.  There were only the occasional nomads passing through the area back then.  It was not inhabitable.  The Israelis MADE Israel/Gaza what it is today.
> 
> The Truth about the Palestinian People
> 
> The 1948 Israeli War of Independence was between the neighboring Arab countries and the newly formed state of Israel. The Arab countries did not send troops to help the people that are today known as _"Palestinians"_ but rather they sent troops to drive the Jews into the sea. Most of the _"Palestinian Arabs"_ fled to avoid the fighting. Remember, in 1948 they were not referred to as _"Palestinians"_. This name was was created by the Soviet disinformation masters in 1964 when they created the _Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO)_. The term_"Palestinian People"_ as a description of Arabs in Palestine appeared for the first time in the preamble of the 1964 PLO Charter, drafted in Moscow. The Charter was affirmed by the first 422 members of the Palestinian National Council, handpicked by the KGB. This term was formally used by newspapers around the world after 1967.
> 
> United Nations Resolution 181 recommended a partition of the territory from the British Mandate for Palestine into two states - one for Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. But the rejection of partition by the Arabs left in place as the legally operative Mandate for Palestine, the 1924 Anglo-American Convention, and Article 80 of the United Nations Charter. All of the Arab countries objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against its creation. This was Israel's War of Independence in 1948. Despite their superior numbers, the Arab countries lost the war and the Palestinian state never materialized because of this loss. In the war that was waged, the territory allotted to be the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was divided between Israel and Jordan. The _"Palestinian Arabs"_ were rejected by every single Arab country, with the exception of the small percentage that ended up in refugee camps in Jordan where they remain to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Multiple people have posted repeated links to historical data indicating that area was by no means inhabited by only "occasional nomads" but had a significant permanent population that had been there for centuries.  They myth that it was largely "uninhabited" other than "occassional nomads" is just that, a myth that has been thoroughly debunked.
> 
> Look at the source you are using and what it has to say about itself:
> 
> 
> 
> _Target Of Opportunity_
> _This website is a list and record of people that betray and endanger America by their Seditious, Treasonous, and/or Terrorist activities. Operating under the false illusion of Peaceful and Non-Violent activism, their methods are anything but Peaceful and Non-Violent. These people present a serious threat to all Americans. Each and every one of them should be considered a_
> _TARGET OF OPPORTUNITY_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the heck kind of site is that and why should anything it says be taken seriously?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is not the only source.  Multiple, multiple sources confirm the same data.  I've posted at LEAST 3 other links here that give the same data.  *There was NO Palestine*.  It is *a made-up place*.  It did not exist before the creation of Israel.  *It WAS a mostly uninhabitable territory owned* by Arab kings which was taken over by the British and mandated to become half a Jewish state and half an Arab state by the UN.  The Arabs would not accept that because of their BIGOTRY, and they tried to attack the Israelis, but the Israelis fought back and won, AND they won the land that you call "palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Always been team Israel's ground rules that Palestine was never a nation just an undefined area in the M.E.
> 
> It was a population in constant flux with highs and lows throughout history but it never reached it occupational density of pre roman times after the diaspora. Even the arab muslims shunned the land because it was too harsh and not easily tamed.
> 
> The people who inhabited the region did exist, but arab muslims did not for 700 years after the diaspora. Then after holding control of a small part they were beaten and expelled by the Crusaders.
> 
> The census is correct but I wonder how many of those muslims were arab and how many were Turkish, Egyptian or Iranian  all non arab muslims . I also wonder how many people were refused the right to fill in the census forms, or duplicated the forms. This happened in the Palestinian territories only a short time ago so that UNWRA could get more money for the terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A load of bullshit as usual.
> 
> Palestinians, people of the Roman provinces of Palestina have been of many religions ranging from those that worshiped the Roman religions, Judaism, Christianity and most recently Islam.  They are the same people whatever the religion or language they speak.
> 
> In fact, Palestine has always been one of the most fertile of the Middle East and there were few areas not being cultivated in the late 1800s, as confirmed by Ahad Ha'am after one of his visits to the area in the late 1800s:
> 
> "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."
> 
> David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> As far as the demographic make up prior to the 1850s and after we have confirmation of that to via the Mandatory's Interim Report of 1921, which confirms that there were but a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850 and that the Muslims made up four fifths of the population in 1921.and that they were not Arabs (only Bedouins are pure Arabians), but of mixed race, which is what Palestinians have always been:
> 
> "Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.....  Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews"
> 
> . - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
Click to expand...


70% was uncultivated


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The other bit of propaganda is that the Jews had fewer numbers and military power  than the Arabs.  The Palestinians would have been either massacred or ethnically cleansed by the Jews whether the attempt by the Arab states to prevent their ethnic cleansing occurred or not.
> 
> 
> "In short, the Palestinians had no significant military capacity. They were a typical colonial society. Already before May 1948, they had suffered at least 5,000 casualties. While the Israelis talked of the threat of an Arab-inflicted holocaust, “They were fully aware that the Arab war rhetoric was in no way matched by any serious preparation on the ground.”
> 
> Fourth, in every category, the Zionists had overwhelming superiority. Since much of the information in this section was sternly denied for years I have checked what I have collected against the two major and more recent Israeli accounts, both of which were derived from Israeli military and political archives........By May 1948, the Haganah numbered 35,700 standing troops of whom 2,200 were the Special Forces of Palmach. That is, as Benny Morris pointed out, the Yishuv army numbered some 5,500 more soldiers than the combined strength of the regular Arab armies and paramilitary Palestinian forces. In addition, Haganah could draw on 9,500 members of the paramilitary youth corps. By July 1948, when the Haganah was renamed the Israel Defense Force, it had 63,000 men under arms. Perhaps more important than numbers, it had a command and control capability that allowed it to conduct division-size or multiple-brigade, operations. No Arab force even remotely approached its power."
> 
> In 1948 Jewish Forces in Palestine outnumbered Palestinian and Arab Fighters Informed Comment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now how many standing troops and armaments did the combined arab armies have monti. How many tanks, fighter planes, bombers and fighting ships compared to the Israelis Lee Enfield single shot rifles, tractors covered in steel sheets and WW1 guns. How many Jews did the Palestinians mass murder from 1890 to 1948 causing the Jews to form defence groups to fight back against arab nationalism ( read national socialism or Nazi ) You can bluster all you want but the evidence is out there for all to see about ISLAMONAZI atrocities and mass murders leading up to the war of 1948. The arabs thought that the Jews would just roll over and give up, and it was a shock when they fought back and gave the arabs a beating they would call the nakba. What a loss of honour that was for the arabs to be beaten by a rag tag army of old men and young boys armed with muzzle loaders and pitch forks.
Click to expand...



"By mid May, shortly after the international phase 
of conflict began, the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) fielded over 35,000 troops in 
comparison to the collective Arab force which fell under 25, 000. Israel now had more 
troops; her soldiers had gained more experience than Arab soldiers who entered the 
war in May; she was arming her troops at a much higher rate; and generally had 
higher military capabilities than her enemies. Israel’s troops were also more 
effectively trained in the majority of cases......
When Israel had inferior weaponry and failed to outnumber her enemy she suffered 
setbacks and defeats. Israel was effectively losing in the early months of the Civil War. 
On the Arab side “only the 7, 400 troops of Transjordan’s King Abdullah, trained and 
equipped by the British, performed with military competence”7
(Gartner:2001,393). 
However due to an Israeli-Transjordanian agreement partitioning Palestine, this army 
had little impact on the outcome of the war.

http://thebigqs.files.wordpress.com...tory-over-the-arabs-between-1947-and-1949.pdf

Add to that the fact that notwithstanding the arms embargo on both parties, the Jews were resupplied with ammunition and new armament  throughout the campaign while the Palestinians and the Arab armies were blockaded.


----------



## montelatici

aris2chat said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Multiple people have posted repeated links to historical data indicating that area was by no means inhabited by only "occasional nomads" but had a significant permanent population that had been there for centuries.  They myth that it was largely "uninhabited" other than "occassional nomads" is just that, a myth that has been thoroughly debunked.
> 
> Look at the source you are using and what it has to say about itself:
> What the heck kind of site is that and why should anything it says be taken seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is not the only source.  Multiple, multiple sources confirm the same data.  I've posted at LEAST 3 other links here that give the same data.  *There was NO Palestine*.  It is *a made-up place*.  It did not exist before the creation of Israel.  *It WAS a mostly uninhabitable territory owned* by Arab kings which was taken over by the British and mandated to become half a Jewish state and half an Arab state by the UN.  The Arabs would not accept that because of their BIGOTRY, and they tried to attack the Israelis, but the Israelis fought back and won, AND they won the land that you call "palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Always been team Israel's ground rules that Palestine was never a nation just an undefined area in the M.E.
> 
> It was a population in constant flux with highs and lows throughout history but it never reached it occupational density of pre roman times after the diaspora. Even the arab muslims shunned the land because it was too harsh and not easily tamed.
> 
> The people who inhabited the region did exist, but arab muslims did not for 700 years after the diaspora. Then after holding control of a small part they were beaten and expelled by the Crusaders.
> 
> The census is correct but I wonder how many of those muslims were arab and how many were Turkish, Egyptian or Iranian  all non arab muslims . I also wonder how many people were refused the right to fill in the census forms, or duplicated the forms. This happened in the Palestinian territories only a short time ago so that UNWRA could get more money for the terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A load of bullshit as usual.
> 
> Palestinians, people of the Roman provinces of Palestina have been of many religions ranging from those that worshiped the Roman religions, Judaism, Christianity and most recently Islam.  They are the same people whatever the religion or language they speak.
> 
> In fact, Palestine has always been one of the most fertile of the Middle East and there were few areas not being cultivated in the late 1800s, as confirmed by Ahad Ha'am after one of his visits to the area in the late 1800s:
> 
> "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."
> 
> David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> As far as the demographic make up prior to the 1850s and after we have confirmation of that to via the Mandatory's Interim Report of 1921, which confirms that there were but a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850 and that the Muslims made up four fifths of the population in 1921.and that they were not Arabs (only Bedouins are pure Arabians), but of mixed race, which is what Palestinians have always been:
> 
> "Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.....  Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews"
> 
> . - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 70% was uncultivated
Click to expand...



Propaganda:

 "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."

Ahad Ha'am in the 1890s

David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian


----------



## aris2chat

Video: Muslim Rage over EU's UN Pro-Israel Walkout - Global Agenda - News - Arutz Sheva http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/185974…


----------



## montelatici

What do you expect?  Europe are America's, hence Israel's, puppets.


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> Add to that the fact that notwithstanding the arms embargo on both parties, the Jews were resupplied with ammunition and new armament  throughout the campaign while the Palestinians and the Arab armies were blockaded.


Our honorable montelatici loaned _the bullshit spray_ from our honorable pbel.


----------



## Slyhunter

montelatici said:


> What do you expect?  Europe are America's, hence Israel's, puppets.


Bullshit.


----------



## Coyote

montelatici said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UK held the trump card many times over in Northern Ireland, but the Protestants had to compromise and eventually, the Catholics will takeover through demographics. Best that the Jews make a deal now that they are at the apex of their power and relative population difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think given what is occurring in the ME, it's in Israel's (and the Palestinian's) best interest to make a deal.  It's not necessarily demographics but the likely chance that the Israel, and it's Arab neighbors will need to work together to deal with ISIS, Iraq, Syria and Libya all of which are in a state of chaos. Settling the Palestinian issue now, while Hamas has lost a lot of support and popularity would be beneficial for it.  No one is going to support massive population transfers to another country though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> " According to a new poll of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh would trounce Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas were a two-man election to be held today.* That puts Hamas back in pole position for the first time since 2006.* The group’s TV station, Al Aqsa, has become the No. 1 channel watched by Palestinians – by a margin of 15 percentage points. And 70 percent of Palestinians in the West Bank say they want to adopt Hamas’s armed approach. "
> 
> After Gaza war Hamas on a high but for how long video - CSMonitor.com
Click to expand...


 


This 9/14/2014 poll concludes:  Palestinian Public Opinion Poll No -53 PCPSR

_This post-war poll was conducted one month after the end of the war in the Gaza Strip. This report highlights important changes in public perception compared to the findings we obtained in our previous poll which was conducted a month ago, immediately after the war end. Findings show a drop in satisfaction with the achievements of the war, probably due to the continued siege and blockade of the Gaza Strip.  *A drop was also found in the percentage of those who believed Hamas won the war, in the percentage of opposition to dissolving armed groups in the Gaza Strip, and in the popularity of Hamas and Ismail Haniyeh. Findings also show a rise in the popularity of Abbas and Fatah. Support for a third armed intifada went down in this poll as support for negotiations increased and a majority supported the two-state solution.*

Despite the drop in support for the Islamists, *Hamas and Haniyeh remain more popular than Fatah and Abbas.  Moreover, a majority still supports launching rockets against Israel if the siege and the blockade are not ended*. Furthermore, *satisfaction with Abbas remains low*. Finally, two thirds of the public oppose merging Hamas’ al Qassam Brigades into the Palestinian National Security Forces.

Findings also show significant drop in the level of optimism regarding the chances for a successful implementation of the reconciliation agreement and indicate continued drop in the level of satisfaction with the performance of the reconciliation government. Indeed, a majority supports replacing the reconciliation government with a national unity government made up of factional leaders and politicians. Despite all that, a majority wants the reconciliation government to control crossings with Egypt and Israel and wants it to have control over Gaza’s public sector including those in the security services._​
IMO, Israel has done nothing to help strengthen Abbas' position, in fact it seems to undermine it at every opportunity which makes me wonder if peace and/or a two state solution is it's true desire.


----------



## pbel

Coyote said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UK held the trump card many times over in Northern Ireland, but the Protestants had to compromise and eventually, the Catholics will takeover through demographics. Best that the Jews make a deal now that they are at the apex of their power and relative population difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think given what is occurring in the ME, it's in Israel's (and the Palestinian's) best interest to make a deal.  It's not necessarily demographics but the likely chance that the Israel, and it's Arab neighbors will need to work together to deal with ISIS, Iraq, Syria and Libya all of which are in a state of chaos. Settling the Palestinian issue now, while Hamas has lost a lot of support and popularity would be beneficial for it.  No one is going to support massive population transfers to another country though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> " According to a new poll of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh would trounce Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas were a two-man election to be held today.* That puts Hamas back in pole position for the first time since 2006.* The group’s TV station, Al Aqsa, has become the No. 1 channel watched by Palestinians – by a margin of 15 percentage points. And 70 percent of Palestinians in the West Bank say they want to adopt Hamas’s armed approach. "
> 
> After Gaza war Hamas on a high but for how long video - CSMonitor.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This 9/14/2014 poll concludes:  Palestinian Public Opinion Poll No -53 PCPSR
> 
> _This post-war poll was conducted one month after the end of the war in the Gaza Strip. This report highlights important changes in public perception compared to the findings we obtained in our previous poll which was conducted a month ago, immediately after the war end. Findings show a drop in satisfaction with the achievements of the war, probably due to the continued siege and blockade of the Gaza Strip.  *A drop was also found in the percentage of those who believed Hamas won the war, in the percentage of opposition to dissolving armed groups in the Gaza Strip, and in the popularity of Hamas and Ismail Haniyeh. Findings also show a rise in the popularity of Abbas and Fatah. Support for a third armed intifada went down in this poll as support for negotiations increased and a majority supported the two-state solution.*
> 
> Despite the drop in support for the Islamists, *Hamas and Haniyeh remain more popular than Fatah and Abbas.  Moreover, a majority still supports launching rockets against Israel if the siege and the blockade are not ended*. Furthermore, *satisfaction with Abbas remains low*. Finally, two thirds of the public oppose merging Hamas’ al Qassam Brigades into the Palestinian National Security Forces.
> 
> Findings also show significant drop in the level of optimism regarding the chances for a successful implementation of the reconciliation agreement and indicate continued drop in the level of satisfaction with the performance of the reconciliation government. Indeed, a majority supports replacing the reconciliation government with a national unity government made up of factional leaders and politicians. Despite all that, a majority wants the reconciliation government to control crossings with Egypt and Israel and wants it to have control over Gaza’s public sector including those in the security services._​
> IMO, Israel has done nothing to help strengthen Abbas' position, in fact it seems to undermine it at every opportunity which makes me wonder if peace and/or a two state solution is it's true desire.
Click to expand...

Israel is not serious about peace, she created the Gaza offensive as a diversion from the Peace Talks demanded by the World and lackey America...

She will never go back to the 67 armistice line...Anyone who accepts less on Jerusalem will end up murdered by their own. people like Sadat and Rabin.

The Ethnic Cleansers Rule...


----------



## docmauser1

Coyote said:


> IMO, Israel has done nothing to help strengthen Abbas' position, in fact it seems to undermine it at every opportunity which makes me wonder if peace and/or a two state solution is it's true desire.


And what has that illegal presidente, Abu Mazen, done worthy of a pat on the back?


----------



## Coyote

aris2chat said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Multiple people have posted repeated links to historical data indicating that area was by no means inhabited by only "occasional nomads" but had a significant permanent population that had been there for centuries.  They myth that it was largely "uninhabited" other than "occassional nomads" is just that, a myth that has been thoroughly debunked.
> 
> Look at the source you are using and what it has to say about itself:
> What the heck kind of site is that and why should anything it says be taken seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is not the only source.  Multiple, multiple sources confirm the same data.  I've posted at LEAST 3 other links here that give the same data.  *There was NO Palestine*.  It is *a made-up place*.  It did not exist before the creation of Israel.  *It WAS a mostly uninhabitable territory owned* by Arab kings which was taken over by the British and mandated to become half a Jewish state and half an Arab state by the UN.  The Arabs would not accept that because of their BIGOTRY, and they tried to attack the Israelis, but the Israelis fought back and won, AND they won the land that you call "palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even if that were true, it still doesn't change the fact that it was a territory owned and controlled not by anyone known as a "palestinian," and that it is made up.  They were Arabs, and as you link states the "military" and those of foreign nationality are more than likely not permanent residents.
> 
> The land was owned by Arab kings and then by the British.  The Jewish people did not steal any land from anyone.  None of your links suggest that anyone is more entitled to this land than the people who it was given to, or who won over some territory during time of war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's owned by the indiginous people living there that have lived there and that now call themselves Palestinians.  They didn't just appear out of nowhere.
> 
> I'm not claiming entitlement of one group over another that broadly.  What I'm saying is that they have lived there and their rights should not be disregarded and you can't just move whole populations out of an area because they are inconvenient to your political or nationalistic ambitions.
> 
> Even when territory is taken by war - the people usually go with it and are subject to new rulers.  If Israel wants to keep WB and Gaza, then it can keep the people and gives them Israeli citizenship just like any other conquored country or it can ethnically cleanse the region and be comparable to Stalin who forceably moved ethnic minorities to Siberia and moved in ethnic Russians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> You did read that jews owned 10-20% of arable land, 40% was state owned and 40% was owned by the "church" and absentee landlords from other arab countries.
> Bedouins had migration routes but did not own land.
> The majority of land outside the towns and villages was not owned by "indigenous" arabs but rented, migrant workers, sharecropped or like feudal land worked by locals who had been in service to the owners for generations.
> Much of the land was swamp, desert and rocky badlands.
> Land owned by private individuals was allowed in the 19th century.  Most of the locals did not wanted to be registered as owners to avoid military service.  Even under the mandate they avoided registering land when offered to avoid conscription or paying taxes.
> Jewish Armed Forces in the British Mandate
> The 1834 arab revolt was over locals not being pressed into egyptian or ottoman military service or to pay the taxes.
> Land ownership was divided into five different classifications.  Private ownership was not heard of for the local outside of the towns and cities till the ottoman opened the area up to jews and wealthy muslims from elsewhere in the empire in the first hald of the 19th century.  Till the end of the WWI most of the locals lived and thought only in terms of tribal or feudal terms.  They were not free to be land owners.
> Just because there was a sizable percentage of the population listed as muslim does not meant they were or could be land owners.
> Even today many of the land rights in the region are based on the old ottoman or tribal systems.
Click to expand...


But you have people living there now, in the West Bank, who have been there for along time - who some here are stating should categorically kicked off the land (ethnically cleansed), to another country so that region can be inhabited by others who seem to me to have no more right to it then they do.


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure that is what Israel has tried to do, and they do have some palestinians in their midst who do NOT want anything to do with the "palestinian" state.  It is not Israel's fault that they are surrounded by intolerant bigots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's why the only workable solution is a 2-state solution where both sides must give up some of their ambitions in order to secure peace and security.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only problem is the Palestinians are refusing to give anything up and just keep demanding more pre conditions
Click to expand...


Both sides are stuck in that same rut.

Have you forgotten Israel's many pre-conditions over the years?


----------



## docmauser1

Coyote said:


> Both sides are stuck in that same rut. Have you forgotten Israel's many pre-conditions over the years?


What are they?


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure that is what Israel has tried to do, and they do have some palestinians in their midst who do NOT want anything to do with the "palestinian" state.  It is not Israel's fault that they are surrounded by intolerant bigots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's why the only workable solution is a 2-state solution where both sides must give up some of their ambitions in order to secure peace and security.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only problem is the Palestinians are refusing to give anything up and just keep demanding more pre conditions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both sides are stuck in that same rut.
> 
> Have you forgotten Israel's many pre-conditions over the years?
Click to expand...


Honestly, what would YOU do in Israel's situation?  They HAVE to protect their people, and THOSE people keep trying to kill Israeli citizens.  Are you suggesting that Israel should risk it's citizens lives?  

EVERY time Israel has given them an inch, they gone right back to the bombings, suicide attacks, kidnapping and torture, and murder, etc.


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Multiple people have posted repeated links to historical data indicating that area was by no means inhabited by only "occasional nomads" but had a significant permanent population that had been there for centuries.  They myth that it was largely "uninhabited" other than "occassional nomads" is just that, a myth that has been thoroughly debunked.
> 
> Look at the source you are using and what it has to say about itself:
> What the heck kind of site is that and why should anything it says be taken seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is not the only source.  Multiple, multiple sources confirm the same data.  I've posted at LEAST 3 other links here that give the same data.  *There was NO Palestine*.  It is *a made-up place*.  It did not exist before the creation of Israel.  *It WAS a mostly uninhabitable territory owned* by Arab kings which was taken over by the British and mandated to become half a Jewish state and half an Arab state by the UN.  The Arabs would not accept that because of their BIGOTRY, and they tried to attack the Israelis, but the Israelis fought back and won, AND they won the land that you call "palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even if that were true, it still doesn't change the fact that it was a territory owned and controlled not by anyone known as a "palestinian," and that it is made up.  They were Arabs, and as you link states the "military" and those of foreign nationality are more than likely not permanent residents.
> 
> The land was owned by Arab kings and then by the British.  The Jewish people did not steal any land from anyone.  None of your links suggest that anyone is more entitled to this land than the people who it was given to, or who won over some territory during time of war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's owned by the indiginous people living there that have lived there and that now call themselves Palestinians.  They didn't just appear out of nowhere.
> 
> I'm not claiming entitlement of one group over another that broadly.  What I'm saying is that they have lived there and their rights should not be disregarded and you can't just move whole populations out of an area because they are inconvenient to your political or nationalistic ambitions.
> 
> Even when territory is taken by war - the people usually go with it and are subject to new rulers.  If Israel wants to keep WB and Gaza, then it can keep the people and gives them Israeli citizenship just like any other conquored country or it can ethnically cleanse the region and be comparable to Stalin who forceably moved ethnic minorities to Siberia and moved in ethnic Russians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually they did mostly from the direction of Syria and Egypt on the promise of work.
> 
> I am claiming entitlement based on Customary International Law and international treaties that gave 77% of the land to the arab muslims and 23% to the Jews. What happened was the arabs then forcibly moved the Jews out of arab controlled territory against the Mandate rules because they were inconvenient to the arab nationalists ( neo Nazis ) political and nationalist ambitions.
> 
> Israel has already relinquished its occupation of gaza and handed control to the muslims living there. Part of the Oslo accords that the Palestinians demanded as a pre condition to peace talks. *The west bank was mostly owned by Jews before the 1948 war and they were thrown of their property by the Palestinian muslims . *The same Palestinian muslims that tried to throw the Jordanians of their land until they retaliated and shot 50,000 as an object lesson.
> So are you now comparing the Palestinians to Stalin as they forced 500,000 Jews to leave their land and property and moved arab muslims into their homes.
Click to expand...


That doesn't make sense.  The only area where Jews held a majority - at least according to this 1898 figure, was Jeruselum.







Edited to add:
This also doesn't make any sense "as they forced 500,000 Jews to leave their land and property and moved arab muslims into their homes."  When and where were 500,000 Jews forced from their homes?


----------



## ChrisL

Also, Israel has to be concerned with even the children of Palestine.  How could you possibly live side by side with people like this???

Child suicide bombers in the Israeli Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



> According to the Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring Group, in the al-Aqsa Intifada, children were used as "messengers and couriers, and in some cases as fighters and suicide bombers in attacks on Israeli soldiers and civilians" during the al-Aqsa Intifada. Fatah, Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad Movement and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine have all been implicated in involving children in this way. The issue was brought to world attention after a widely televised incident in which a mentally handicapped Palestinian teenager, Hussam Abdo, was disarmed at an Israeli checkpoint.[6] The youngest Palestinian suicide bomber who blew himself up was Issa Bdeir, a 16-year-old high school student from the village of Al Doha. He blew himself up in a park in Rishon LeZion, killing a teenage boy and an elderly man.
> 
> According to the Israel Defense Forces, 29 suicide attacks were carried out by youth under the age of 18 in 2000–2003. From May 2001, 22 shootings attacks and attacks using explosive devices were carried out by youth under the age of 18, and more than 40 youths under the age of 18 were involved in attempted suicide bombings that were thwarted (three in 2004).


----------



## Coyote

docmauser1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Both sides are stuck in that same rut. Have you forgotten Israel's many pre-conditions over the years?
> 
> 
> 
> What are they?
Click to expand...


One example, from 2012 article: Palestinian and Israeli Hope for Peace at Roadblock by Ray Hanania on Creators.com - A Syndicate Of Talent



> It's become almost normal for Palestinians and Israelis who support peace to find themselves at the same old roadblock, going nowhere fast. The only thing moving are the extremists, who continue to pave the way to the mutual destruction of both sides.
> 
> Israeli and Palestinian leaders refuse to talk about the steps necessary to make peace. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu *has imposed several pre-conditions for peace talks* to resume. *They include the demand for a one-sided end to violence*: Palestinians must prevent their extremists from committing acts of violence, but Israel can continue to not only attack Palestinian areas in the Gaza Strip with missiles, but they can also target Palestinians in the West Bank.
> 
> But Netanyahu's pre-conditions go way beyond what is acceptable. I call them his "no pre-conditions" pre-conditions. *The Israelis insist that Palestinians accept Israeli confiscations of West Bank land around East Jerusalem and accept the expansion of settlements in the West Bank, too. Netanyahu has outlined a Jerusalem that remains undivided, merging East and West Jerusalem without any consideration of Palestinian rights in the cities.*
> 
> Netanyahu has also imposed another pre-condition. Palestinians have accepted Israel's right to exist and recognize Israel as a state. But since the collapse of the peace process more than a decade ago,* Israelis have demanded that Palestinians not only accept Israel as a "Jewish" state but to also say the words.*
> 
> Forget about the fact that when a state distinguishes between its citizens in a racial or religious way, that's discrimination. There are many words for it. Words that are destructive and words that try to keep the door open for reason and yet fail.
> 
> *In the face of these pre-conditions, Israelis continue to declare publicly and with no shame that they are willing to enter the peace process with "no pre-conditions" but that it is the Palestinians who refuse to make peace.*
> 
> It's a bizarre circumstance of "no pre-conditions" consisting of a lot of pre-conditions.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Also, Israel has to be concerned with even the children of Palestine.  How could you possibly live side by side with people like this???
> 
> Child suicide bombers in the Israeli Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to the Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring Group, in the al-Aqsa Intifada, children were used as "messengers and couriers, and in some cases as fighters and suicide bombers in attacks on Israeli soldiers and civilians" during the al-Aqsa Intifada. Fatah, Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad Movement and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine have all been implicated in involving children in this way. The issue was brought to world attention after a widely televised incident in which a mentally handicapped Palestinian teenager, Hussam Abdo, was disarmed at an Israeli checkpoint.[6] The youngest Palestinian suicide bomber who blew himself up was Issa Bdeir, a 16-year-old high school student from the village of Al Doha. He blew himself up in a park in Rishon LeZion, killing a teenage boy and an elderly man.
> 
> According to the Israel Defense Forces, 29 suicide attacks were carried out by youth under the age of 18 in 2000–2003. From May 2001, 22 shootings attacks and attacks using explosive devices were carried out by youth under the age of 18, and more than 40 youths under the age of 18 were involved in attempted suicide bombings that were thwarted (three in 2004).
Click to expand...


Ukraine and Russia live side by side.
Georgia and Russia live side by side.
East and West Germany lived side by side.
Ireland and Northern Ireland live side by side.
Bosnia and Serbia live side by side despite the genocide.

No one suggested ethnic cleansing to make it more tolerable.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure that is what Israel has tried to do, and they do have some palestinians in their midst who do NOT want anything to do with the "palestinian" state.  It is not Israel's fault that they are surrounded by intolerant bigots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's why the only workable solution is a 2-state solution where both sides must give up some of their ambitions in order to secure peace and security.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only problem is the Palestinians are refusing to give anything up and just keep demanding more pre conditions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both sides are stuck in that same rut.
> 
> Have you forgotten Israel's many pre-conditions over the years?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Honestly, what would YOU do in Israel's situation?  They HAVE to protect their people, and THOSE people keep trying to kill Israeli citizens.  Are you suggesting that Israel should risk it's citizens lives?
> 
> EVERY time Israel has given them an inch, they gone right back to the bombings, suicide attacks, kidnapping and torture, and murder, etc.
Click to expand...


The point is - Israel can't claim to have no "pre-conditions" for peace and accuse the Palestinians of trying to block the peace process with "pre-conditions".  It's a blatant lie.


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, Israel has to be concerned with even the children of Palestine.  How could you possibly live side by side with people like this???
> 
> Child suicide bombers in the Israeli Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to the Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring Group, in the al-Aqsa Intifada, children were used as "messengers and couriers, and in some cases as fighters and suicide bombers in attacks on Israeli soldiers and civilians" during the al-Aqsa Intifada. Fatah, Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad Movement and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine have all been implicated in involving children in this way. The issue was brought to world attention after a widely televised incident in which a mentally handicapped Palestinian teenager, Hussam Abdo, was disarmed at an Israeli checkpoint.[6] The youngest Palestinian suicide bomber who blew himself up was Issa Bdeir, a 16-year-old high school student from the village of Al Doha. He blew himself up in a park in Rishon LeZion, killing a teenage boy and an elderly man.
> 
> According to the Israel Defense Forces, 29 suicide attacks were carried out by youth under the age of 18 in 2000–2003. From May 2001, 22 shootings attacks and attacks using explosive devices were carried out by youth under the age of 18, and more than 40 youths under the age of 18 were involved in attempted suicide bombings that were thwarted (three in 2004).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ukraine and Russia live side by side.
> Georgia and Russia live side by side.
> East and West Germany lived side by side.
> Ireland and Northern Ireland live side by side.
> Bosnia and Serbia live side by side despite the genocide.
> 
> No one suggested ethnic cleansing to make it more tolerable.
Click to expand...


Are you SERIOUS?  Ukraine and Russia, Georgia and Russia?  They are fighting still.  Egads, I've figured it out.  You are willfully blind and deaf.


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure that is what Israel has tried to do, and they do have some palestinians in their midst who do NOT want anything to do with the "palestinian" state.  It is not Israel's fault that they are surrounded by intolerant bigots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's why the only workable solution is a 2-state solution where both sides must give up some of their ambitions in order to secure peace and security.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only problem is the Palestinians are refusing to give anything up and just keep demanding more pre conditions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both sides are stuck in that same rut.
> 
> Have you forgotten Israel's many pre-conditions over the years?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Honestly, what would YOU do in Israel's situation?  They HAVE to protect their people, and THOSE people keep trying to kill Israeli citizens.  Are you suggesting that Israel should risk it's citizens lives?
> 
> EVERY time Israel has given them an inch, they gone right back to the bombings, suicide attacks, kidnapping and torture, and murder, etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The point is - Israel can't claim to have no "pre-conditions" for peace and accuse the Palestinians of trying to block the peace process with "pre-conditions".  It's a blatant lie.
Click to expand...


What are Israel's conditions?  Don't lob bombs at us?


----------



## ChrisL

Russia Ukraine Conflict

T


----------



## ChrisL

2008 Russo-Georgian diplomatic crisis - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## Coyote

pbel said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UK held the trump card many times over in Northern Ireland, but the Protestants had to compromise and eventually, the Catholics will takeover through demographics. Best that the Jews make a deal now that they are at the apex of their power and relative population difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think given what is occurring in the ME, it's in Israel's (and the Palestinian's) best interest to make a deal.  It's not necessarily demographics but the likely chance that the Israel, and it's Arab neighbors will need to work together to deal with ISIS, Iraq, Syria and Libya all of which are in a state of chaos. Settling the Palestinian issue now, while Hamas has lost a lot of support and popularity would be beneficial for it.  No one is going to support massive population transfers to another country though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> " According to a new poll of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh would trounce Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas were a two-man election to be held today.* That puts Hamas back in pole position for the first time since 2006.* The group’s TV station, Al Aqsa, has become the No. 1 channel watched by Palestinians – by a margin of 15 percentage points. And 70 percent of Palestinians in the West Bank say they want to adopt Hamas’s armed approach. "
> 
> After Gaza war Hamas on a high but for how long video - CSMonitor.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This 9/14/2014 poll concludes:  Palestinian Public Opinion Poll No -53 PCPSR
> 
> _This post-war poll was conducted one month after the end of the war in the Gaza Strip. This report highlights important changes in public perception compared to the findings we obtained in our previous poll which was conducted a month ago, immediately after the war end. Findings show a drop in satisfaction with the achievements of the war, probably due to the continued siege and blockade of the Gaza Strip.  *A drop was also found in the percentage of those who believed Hamas won the war, in the percentage of opposition to dissolving armed groups in the Gaza Strip, and in the popularity of Hamas and Ismail Haniyeh. Findings also show a rise in the popularity of Abbas and Fatah. Support for a third armed intifada went down in this poll as support for negotiations increased and a majority supported the two-state solution.*
> 
> Despite the drop in support for the Islamists, *Hamas and Haniyeh remain more popular than Fatah and Abbas.  Moreover, a majority still supports launching rockets against Israel if the siege and the blockade are not ended*. Furthermore, *satisfaction with Abbas remains low*. Finally, two thirds of the public oppose merging Hamas’ al Qassam Brigades into the Palestinian National Security Forces.
> 
> Findings also show significant drop in the level of optimism regarding the chances for a successful implementation of the reconciliation agreement and indicate continued drop in the level of satisfaction with the performance of the reconciliation government. Indeed, a majority supports replacing the reconciliation government with a national unity government made up of factional leaders and politicians. Despite all that, a majority wants the reconciliation government to control crossings with Egypt and Israel and wants it to have control over Gaza’s public sector including those in the security services._​
> IMO, Israel has done nothing to help strengthen Abbas' position, in fact it seems to undermine it at every opportunity which makes me wonder if peace and/or a two state solution is it's true desire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not serious about peace, she created the Gaza offensive as a diversion from the Peace Talks demanded by the World and lackey America...
> 
> She will never go back to the 67 armistice line...Anyone who accepts less on Jerusalem will end up murdered by their own. people like Sadat and Rabin.
> 
> The Ethnic Cleansers Rule...
Click to expand...



I doubt it will come to large scale ethnic cleansing.  The demographics alone make it impossible to to do and the international community would never support it, the political fall out would be horrendous for Israel.  It's disheartening to see so many people supporting ethnic cleansing though, something that I doubt they would support in any other situation.

How many Palestinians actually live in the West Bank - Diplomacy Defense Israel News Haaretz

There are approx 2.6 - 2.7 million Arab Palestinians in the West Bank...and what...400,000 Jewish settlers?  Only 17% of the population is Jewish.  That doesn't include the 1.7 or so million in Gaza.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> 2008 Russo-Georgian diplomatic crisis - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



Yes.  And they are living side by side.  Has anyone suggested ethnic cleansing?


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 2008 Russo-Georgian diplomatic crisis - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  And they are living side by side.  Has anyone suggested ethnic cleansing?
Click to expand...


That's because neither side on the Ukraine/Russia conflict are savages.  They are educated people who can have rational conversation, unlike the Palestinians.  Can't trust them, can't reason with them.  It's like trying to reason with a drunk person basically.  Can't be done.


----------



## montelatici

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 2008 Russo-Georgian diplomatic crisis - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  And they are living side by side.  Has anyone suggested ethnic cleansing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because neither side on the Ukraine/Russia conflict are savages.  They are educated people who can have rational conversation, unlike the Palestinians.  Can't trust them, can't reason with them.  It's like trying to reason with a drunk person basically.  Can't be done.
Click to expand...


So, ethnic cleansing is your solution. Why not genocide?


----------



## aris2chat

Coyote said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is not the only source.  Multiple, multiple sources confirm the same data.  I've posted at LEAST 3 other links here that give the same data.  *There was NO Palestine*.  It is *a made-up place*.  It did not exist before the creation of Israel.  *It WAS a mostly uninhabitable territory owned* by Arab kings which was taken over by the British and mandated to become half a Jewish state and half an Arab state by the UN.  The Arabs would not accept that because of their BIGOTRY, and they tried to attack the Israelis, but the Israelis fought back and won, AND they won the land that you call "palestine."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even if that were true, it still doesn't change the fact that it was a territory owned and controlled not by anyone known as a "palestinian," and that it is made up.  They were Arabs, and as you link states the "military" and those of foreign nationality are more than likely not permanent residents.
> 
> The land was owned by Arab kings and then by the British.  The Jewish people did not steal any land from anyone.  None of your links suggest that anyone is more entitled to this land than the people who it was given to, or who won over some territory during time of war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's owned by the indiginous people living there that have lived there and that now call themselves Palestinians.  They didn't just appear out of nowhere.
> 
> I'm not claiming entitlement of one group over another that broadly.  What I'm saying is that they have lived there and their rights should not be disregarded and you can't just move whole populations out of an area because they are inconvenient to your political or nationalistic ambitions.
> 
> Even when territory is taken by war - the people usually go with it and are subject to new rulers.  If Israel wants to keep WB and Gaza, then it can keep the people and gives them Israeli citizenship just like any other conquored country or it can ethnically cleanse the region and be comparable to Stalin who forceably moved ethnic minorities to Siberia and moved in ethnic Russians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> You did read that jews owned 10-20% of arable land, 40% was state owned and 40% was owned by the "church" and absentee landlords from other arab countries.
> Bedouins had migration routes but did not own land.
> The majority of land outside the towns and villages was not owned by "indigenous" arabs but rented, migrant workers, sharecropped or like feudal land worked by locals who had been in service to the owners for generations.
> Much of the land was swamp, desert and rocky badlands.
> Land owned by private individuals was allowed in the 19th century.  Most of the locals did not wanted to be registered as owners to avoid military service.  Even under the mandate they avoided registering land when offered to avoid conscription or paying taxes.
> Jewish Armed Forces in the British Mandate
> The 1834 arab revolt was over locals not being pressed into egyptian or ottoman military service or to pay the taxes.
> Land ownership was divided into five different classifications.  Private ownership was not heard of for the local outside of the towns and cities till the ottoman opened the area up to jews and wealthy muslims from elsewhere in the empire in the first hald of the 19th century.  Till the end of the WWI most of the locals lived and thought only in terms of tribal or feudal terms.  They were not free to be land owners.
> Just because there was a sizable percentage of the population listed as muslim does not meant they were or could be land owners.
> Even today many of the land rights in the region are based on the old ottoman or tribal systems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But you have people living there now, in the West Bank, who have been there for along time - who some here are stating should categorically kicked off the land (ethnically cleansed), to another country so that region can be inhabited by others who seem to me to have no more right to it then they do.
Click to expand...


and before Jordan occupied the west bank, there used to be jews living there for generations.

Nothing is simple about the situation


----------



## aris2chat

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is not the only source.  Multiple, multiple sources confirm the same data.  I've posted at LEAST 3 other links here that give the same data.  *There was NO Palestine*.  It is *a made-up place*.  It did not exist before the creation of Israel.  *It WAS a mostly uninhabitable territory owned* by Arab kings which was taken over by the British and mandated to become half a Jewish state and half an Arab state by the UN.  The Arabs would not accept that because of their BIGOTRY, and they tried to attack the Israelis, but the Israelis fought back and won, AND they won the land that you call "palestine."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even if that were true, it still doesn't change the fact that it was a territory owned and controlled not by anyone known as a "palestinian," and that it is made up.  They were Arabs, and as you link states the "military" and those of foreign nationality are more than likely not permanent residents.
> 
> The land was owned by Arab kings and then by the British.  The Jewish people did not steal any land from anyone.  None of your links suggest that anyone is more entitled to this land than the people who it was given to, or who won over some territory during time of war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's owned by the indiginous people living there that have lived there and that now call themselves Palestinians.  They didn't just appear out of nowhere.
> 
> I'm not claiming entitlement of one group over another that broadly.  What I'm saying is that they have lived there and their rights should not be disregarded and you can't just move whole populations out of an area because they are inconvenient to your political or nationalistic ambitions.
> 
> Even when territory is taken by war - the people usually go with it and are subject to new rulers.  If Israel wants to keep WB and Gaza, then it can keep the people and gives them Israeli citizenship just like any other conquored country or it can ethnically cleanse the region and be comparable to Stalin who forceably moved ethnic minorities to Siberia and moved in ethnic Russians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually they did mostly from the direction of Syria and Egypt on the promise of work.
> 
> I am claiming entitlement based on Customary International Law and international treaties that gave 77% of the land to the arab muslims and 23% to the Jews. What happened was the arabs then forcibly moved the Jews out of arab controlled territory against the Mandate rules because they were inconvenient to the arab nationalists ( neo Nazis ) political and nationalist ambitions.
> 
> Israel has already relinquished its occupation of gaza and handed control to the muslims living there. Part of the Oslo accords that the Palestinians demanded as a pre condition to peace talks. *The west bank was mostly owned by Jews before the 1948 war and they were thrown of their property by the Palestinian muslims . *The same Palestinian muslims that tried to throw the Jordanians of their land until they retaliated and shot 50,000 as an object lesson.
> So are you now comparing the Palestinians to Stalin as they forced 500,000 Jews to leave their land and property and moved arab muslims into their homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That doesn't make sense.  The only area where Jews held a majority - at least according to this 1898 figure, was Jeruselum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edited to add:
> This also doesn't make any sense "as they forced 500,000 Jews to leave their land and property and moved arab muslims into their homes."  When and where were 500,000 Jews forced from their homes?
Click to expand...


You are aware there were no official census and the numbers are estimates.  Many arabs avoided military service and taxes by not being counted.


----------



## RoccoR

Coyote,  _et al,_

This is an essential point.



Coyote said:


> But you have people living there now, in the West Bank, who have been there for along time - who some here are stating should categorically kicked off the land (ethnically cleansed), to another country so that region can be inhabited by others who seem to me to have no more right to it then they do.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both sides are stuck in that same rut.
> 
> Have you forgotten Israel's many pre-conditions over the years?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

There is a very good argument, to be made on the part of the Arab Palestinian, relative to the Settlement Issue and the Oslo Accords.  

But I'm not sure that anyone _(in authority)_ on the Arab Palestinian side of the talks is actually interested in serious negotiations. 

Who, actually, wants to sit down and talk about solutions?

Most Respectively,
R


----------



## Coyote

RoccoR said:


> Coyote,  _et al,_
> 
> This is an essential point.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> But you have people living there now, in the West Bank, who have been there for along time - who some here are stating should categorically kicked off the land (ethnically cleansed), to another country so that region can be inhabited by others who seem to me to have no more right to it then they do.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both sides are stuck in that same rut.
> 
> Have you forgotten Israel's many pre-conditions over the years?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is a very good argument, to be made on the part of the Arab Palestinian, relative to the Settlement Issue and the Oslo Accords.
> 
> But I'm not sure that anyone _(in authority)_ on the Arab Palestinian side of the talks is actually interested in serious negotiations.
> 
> *Who, actually, wants to sit down and talk about solutions?*
> 
> Most Respectively,
> R
Click to expand...



I don't think anyone does....on either side


----------



## Coyote

aris2chat said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even if that were true, it still doesn't change the fact that it was a territory owned and controlled not by anyone known as a "palestinian," and that it is made up.  They were Arabs, and as you link states the "military" and those of foreign nationality are more than likely not permanent residents.
> 
> The land was owned by Arab kings and then by the British.  The Jewish people did not steal any land from anyone.  None of your links suggest that anyone is more entitled to this land than the people who it was given to, or who won over some territory during time of war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's owned by the indiginous people living there that have lived there and that now call themselves Palestinians.  They didn't just appear out of nowhere.
> 
> I'm not claiming entitlement of one group over another that broadly.  What I'm saying is that they have lived there and their rights should not be disregarded and you can't just move whole populations out of an area because they are inconvenient to your political or nationalistic ambitions.
> 
> Even when territory is taken by war - the people usually go with it and are subject to new rulers.  If Israel wants to keep WB and Gaza, then it can keep the people and gives them Israeli citizenship just like any other conquored country or it can ethnically cleanse the region and be comparable to Stalin who forceably moved ethnic minorities to Siberia and moved in ethnic Russians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually they did mostly from the direction of Syria and Egypt on the promise of work.
> 
> I am claiming entitlement based on Customary International Law and international treaties that gave 77% of the land to the arab muslims and 23% to the Jews. What happened was the arabs then forcibly moved the Jews out of arab controlled territory against the Mandate rules because they were inconvenient to the arab nationalists ( neo Nazis ) political and nationalist ambitions.
> 
> Israel has already relinquished its occupation of gaza and handed control to the muslims living there. Part of the Oslo accords that the Palestinians demanded as a pre condition to peace talks. *The west bank was mostly owned by Jews before the 1948 war and they were thrown of their property by the Palestinian muslims . *The same Palestinian muslims that tried to throw the Jordanians of their land until they retaliated and shot 50,000 as an object lesson.
> So are you now comparing the Palestinians to Stalin as they forced 500,000 Jews to leave their land and property and moved arab muslims into their homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That doesn't make sense.  The only area where Jews held a majority - at least according to this 1898 figure, was Jeruselum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edited to add:
> This also doesn't make any sense "as they forced 500,000 Jews to leave their land and property and moved arab muslims into their homes."  When and where were 500,000 Jews forced from their homes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are aware there were no official census and the numbers are estimates.  Many arabs avoided military service and taxes by not being counted.
Click to expand...


I agree, they are estimates...so the arab population could have been higher?

Thing is - I don't see where Phoenal is getting his numbers?


----------



## Coyote

aris2chat said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even if that were true, it still doesn't change the fact that it was a territory owned and controlled not by anyone known as a "palestinian," and that it is made up.  They were Arabs, and as you link states the "military" and those of foreign nationality are more than likely not permanent residents.
> 
> The land was owned by Arab kings and then by the British.  The Jewish people did not steal any land from anyone.  None of your links suggest that anyone is more entitled to this land than the people who it was given to, or who won over some territory during time of war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's owned by the indiginous people living there that have lived there and that now call themselves Palestinians.  They didn't just appear out of nowhere.
> 
> I'm not claiming entitlement of one group over another that broadly.  What I'm saying is that they have lived there and their rights should not be disregarded and you can't just move whole populations out of an area because they are inconvenient to your political or nationalistic ambitions.
> 
> Even when territory is taken by war - the people usually go with it and are subject to new rulers.  If Israel wants to keep WB and Gaza, then it can keep the people and gives them Israeli citizenship just like any other conquored country or it can ethnically cleanse the region and be comparable to Stalin who forceably moved ethnic minorities to Siberia and moved in ethnic Russians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> You did read that jews owned 10-20% of arable land, 40% was state owned and 40% was owned by the "church" and absentee landlords from other arab countries.
> Bedouins had migration routes but did not own land.
> The majority of land outside the towns and villages was not owned by "indigenous" arabs but rented, migrant workers, sharecropped or like feudal land worked by locals who had been in service to the owners for generations.
> Much of the land was swamp, desert and rocky badlands.
> Land owned by private individuals was allowed in the 19th century.  Most of the locals did not wanted to be registered as owners to avoid military service.  Even under the mandate they avoided registering land when offered to avoid conscription or paying taxes.
> Jewish Armed Forces in the British Mandate
> The 1834 arab revolt was over locals not being pressed into egyptian or ottoman military service or to pay the taxes.
> Land ownership was divided into five different classifications.  Private ownership was not heard of for the local outside of the towns and cities till the ottoman opened the area up to jews and wealthy muslims from elsewhere in the empire in the first hald of the 19th century.  Till the end of the WWI most of the locals lived and thought only in terms of tribal or feudal terms.  They were not free to be land owners.
> Just because there was a sizable percentage of the population listed as muslim does not meant they were or could be land owners.
> Even today many of the land rights in the region are based on the old ottoman or tribal systems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But you have people living there now, in the West Bank, who have been there for along time - who some here are stating should categorically kicked off the land (ethnically cleansed), to another country so that region can be inhabited by others who seem to me to have no more right to it then they do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and before Jordan occupied the west bank, there used to be jews living there for generations.
> 
> *Nothing is simple about the situation*
Click to expand...


Exactly!  That is what I keep saying.  It's not so black and white.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 2008 Russo-Georgian diplomatic crisis - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  And they are living side by side.  Has anyone suggested ethnic cleansing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because neither side on the Ukraine/Russia conflict are savages.  They are educated people who can have rational conversation, unlike the Palestinians.  Can't trust them, can't reason with them.  It's like trying to reason with a drunk person basically.  Can't be done.
Click to expand...


Do you know any Palestinians?


----------



## pbel

RoccoR said:


> Coyote,  _et al,_
> 
> This is an essential point.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> But you have people living there now, in the West Bank, who have been there for along time - who some here are stating should categorically kicked off the land (ethnically cleansed), to another country so that region can be inhabited by others who seem to me to have no more right to it then they do.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both sides are stuck in that same rut.
> 
> Have you forgotten Israel's many pre-conditions over the years?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is a very good argument, to be made on the part of the Arab Palestinian, relative to the Settlement Issue and the Oslo Accords.
> 
> But I'm not sure that anyone _(in authority)_ on the Arab Palestinian side of the talks is actually interested in serious negotiations.
> 
> Who, actually, wants to sit down and talk about solutions?
> 
> Most Respectively,
> R
Click to expand...

tell us your solution...


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's why the only workable solution is a 2-state solution where both sides must give up some of their ambitions in order to secure peace and security.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only problem is the Palestinians are refusing to give anything up and just keep demanding more pre conditions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both sides are stuck in that same rut.
> 
> Have you forgotten Israel's many pre-conditions over the years?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Honestly, what would YOU do in Israel's situation?  They HAVE to protect their people, and THOSE people keep trying to kill Israeli citizens.  Are you suggesting that Israel should risk it's citizens lives?
> 
> EVERY time Israel has given them an inch, they gone right back to the bombings, suicide attacks, kidnapping and torture, and murder, etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The point is - Israel can't claim to have no "pre-conditions" for peace and accuse the Palestinians of trying to block the peace process with "pre-conditions".  It's a blatant lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What are Israel's conditions?  Don't lob bombs at us?
Click to expand...


So what you are saying is - it's ok for Israel to have pre-conditions but not the Pali's?


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, Israel has to be concerned with even the children of Palestine.  How could you possibly live side by side with people like this???
> 
> Child suicide bombers in the Israeli Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to the Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring Group, in the al-Aqsa Intifada, children were used as "messengers and couriers, and in some cases as fighters and suicide bombers in attacks on Israeli soldiers and civilians" during the al-Aqsa Intifada. Fatah, Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad Movement and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine have all been implicated in involving children in this way. The issue was brought to world attention after a widely televised incident in which a mentally handicapped Palestinian teenager, Hussam Abdo, was disarmed at an Israeli checkpoint.[6] The youngest Palestinian suicide bomber who blew himself up was Issa Bdeir, a 16-year-old high school student from the village of Al Doha. He blew himself up in a park in Rishon LeZion, killing a teenage boy and an elderly man.
> 
> According to the Israel Defense Forces, 29 suicide attacks were carried out by youth under the age of 18 in 2000–2003. From May 2001, 22 shootings attacks and attacks using explosive devices were carried out by youth under the age of 18, and more than 40 youths under the age of 18 were involved in attempted suicide bombings that were thwarted (three in 2004).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ukraine and Russia live side by side.
> Georgia and Russia live side by side.
> East and West Germany lived side by side.
> Ireland and Northern Ireland live side by side.
> Bosnia and Serbia live side by side despite the genocide.
> 
> No one suggested ethnic cleansing to make it more tolerable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you SERIOUS?  Ukraine and Russia, Georgia and Russia?  They are fighting still.  Egads, I've figured it out.  You are willfully blind and deaf.
Click to expand...


Yes, they are...HOWEVER - where are the voices calling for ethnic cleansing of one of the sides so the other can live "peaceably" with those "savages"?

They are living side by side and eventually will have to work it out.
*
Do you understand the difference between that and ethnic cleansing?*


----------



## Slyhunter

aris2chat said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even if that were true, it still doesn't change the fact that it was a territory owned and controlled not by anyone known as a "palestinian," and that it is made up.  They were Arabs, and as you link states the "military" and those of foreign nationality are more than likely not permanent residents.
> 
> The land was owned by Arab kings and then by the British.  The Jewish people did not steal any land from anyone.  None of your links suggest that anyone is more entitled to this land than the people who it was given to, or who won over some territory during time of war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's owned by the indiginous people living there that have lived there and that now call themselves Palestinians.  They didn't just appear out of nowhere.
> 
> I'm not claiming entitlement of one group over another that broadly.  What I'm saying is that they have lived there and their rights should not be disregarded and you can't just move whole populations out of an area because they are inconvenient to your political or nationalistic ambitions.
> 
> Even when territory is taken by war - the people usually go with it and are subject to new rulers.  If Israel wants to keep WB and Gaza, then it can keep the people and gives them Israeli citizenship just like any other conquored country or it can ethnically cleanse the region and be comparable to Stalin who forceably moved ethnic minorities to Siberia and moved in ethnic Russians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually they did mostly from the direction of Syria and Egypt on the promise of work.
> 
> I am claiming entitlement based on Customary International Law and international treaties that gave 77% of the land to the arab muslims and 23% to the Jews. What happened was the arabs then forcibly moved the Jews out of arab controlled territory against the Mandate rules because they were inconvenient to the arab nationalists ( neo Nazis ) political and nationalist ambitions.
> 
> Israel has already relinquished its occupation of gaza and handed control to the muslims living there. Part of the Oslo accords that the Palestinians demanded as a pre condition to peace talks. *The west bank was mostly owned by Jews before the 1948 war and they were thrown of their property by the Palestinian muslims . *The same Palestinian muslims that tried to throw the Jordanians of their land until they retaliated and shot 50,000 as an object lesson.
> So are you now comparing the Palestinians to Stalin as they forced 500,000 Jews to leave their land and property and moved arab muslims into their homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That doesn't make sense.  The only area where Jews held a majority - at least according to this 1898 figure, was Jeruselum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edited to add:
> This also doesn't make any sense "as they forced 500,000 Jews to leave their land and property and moved arab muslims into their homes."  When and where were 500,000 Jews forced from their homes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are aware there were no official census and the numbers are estimates.  Many arabs avoided military service and taxes by not being counted.
Click to expand...

Tough shit.


----------



## RoccoR

Coyote,  _et al,_

No, this is not right.



Coyote said:


> So what you are saying is - it's ok for Israel to have pre-conditions but not the Pali's?


*(COMMENT)*

Neither side should approach the table with pre-conditions --- or --- in good faith, with any coercive advantage.

Israel cannot use expansion as a leverage and the Arab Palestinians cannot use Jihad and conflict as a leverage.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Grendelyn

pbel said:


> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.



*The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities...you say?  One can only hope   ~ Susan*


----------



## Kondor3

Grendelyn said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities...you say?  One can only hope   ~ Susan*
Click to expand...

The Palestinians can ASK until the cows come home.

Doesn't mean they're gonna get it.

All it takes is one veto.

There will be at least one.

Probably more.

And even if, by some freak chance, one snuck-in under the wire...

The Israelis would merely duplicate it en masse, using it as the template for new print-decorated toilet paper - it would be very fashionable for an Israeli to wipe his ass with a copy of that.


----------



## pbel

Kondor3 said:


> Grendelyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities...you say?  One can only hope   ~ Susan*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians can ASK until the cows come home.
> 
> Doesn't mean they're gonna get it.
> 
> All it takes is one veto.
> 
> There will be at least one.
> 
> Probably more.
> 
> And even if, by some freak chance, one snuck-in under the wire...
> 
> *The Israelis would merely duplicate it en masse, using it as the template for new print-decorated toilet paper - it would be very fashionable for an Israeli to wipe his ass with a copy of that.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grendelyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities...you say?  One can only hope   ~ Susan*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians can ASK until the cows come home.
> 
> Doesn't mean they're gonna get it.
> 
> All it takes is one veto.
> 
> There will be at least one.
> 
> Probably more.
> 
> And even if, by some freak chance, one snuck-in under the wire...
> 
> The Israelis would merely duplicate it en masse, using it as the template for new print-decorated toilet paper - it would be very fashionable for an Israeli to wipe his ass with a copy of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...




Kondor3 said:


> Grendelyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities...you say?  One can only hope   ~ Susan*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians can ASK until the cows come home.
> 
> Doesn't mean they're gonna get it.
> 
> All it takes is one veto.
> 
> There will be at least one.
> 
> Probably more.
> 
> And even if, by some freak chance, one snuck-in under the wire...
> 
> The Israelis would merely duplicate it en masse, using it as the template for new print-decorated toilet paper - it would be very fashionable for an Israeli to wipe his ass with a copy of that.
Click to expand...

In honor of Kondor, Israel is going to use his avatar to grace their toilet paper, congrats!


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grendelyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities...you say?  One can only hope   ~ Susan*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians can ASK until the cows come home.
> 
> Doesn't mean they're gonna get it.
> 
> All it takes is one veto.
> 
> There will be at least one.
> 
> Probably more.
> 
> And even if, by some freak chance, one snuck-in under the wire...
> 
> *The Israelis would merely duplicate it en masse, using it as the template for new print-decorated toilet paper - it would be very fashionable for an Israeli to wipe his ass with a copy of that.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grendelyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities...you say?  One can only hope   ~ Susan*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians can ASK until the cows come home.
> 
> Doesn't mean they're gonna get it.
> 
> All it takes is one veto.
> 
> There will be at least one.
> 
> Probably more.
> 
> And even if, by some freak chance, one snuck-in under the wire...
> 
> The Israelis would merely duplicate it en masse, using it as the template for new print-decorated toilet paper - it would be very fashionable for an Israeli to wipe his ass with a copy of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grendelyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities...you say?  One can only hope   ~ Susan*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians can ASK until the cows come home.
> 
> Doesn't mean they're gonna get it.
> 
> All it takes is one veto.
> 
> There will be at least one.
> 
> Probably more.
> 
> And even if, by some freak chance, one snuck-in under the wire...
> 
> The Israelis would merely duplicate it en masse, using it as the template for new print-decorated toilet paper - it would be very fashionable for an Israeli to wipe his ass with a copy of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In honor of Kondor, Israel is going to use his avatar to grace their toilet paper, congrats!
Click to expand...

Don't overtax your brain trying to be original... stick to copy-catting... it's what you do best.


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, Israel has to be concerned with even the children of Palestine.  How could you possibly live side by side with people like this???
> 
> Child suicide bombers in the Israeli Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to the Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring Group, in the al-Aqsa Intifada, children were used as "messengers and couriers, and in some cases as fighters and suicide bombers in attacks on Israeli soldiers and civilians" during the al-Aqsa Intifada. Fatah, Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad Movement and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine have all been implicated in involving children in this way. The issue was brought to world attention after a widely televised incident in which a mentally handicapped Palestinian teenager, Hussam Abdo, was disarmed at an Israeli checkpoint.[6] The youngest Palestinian suicide bomber who blew himself up was Issa Bdeir, a 16-year-old high school student from the village of Al Doha. He blew himself up in a park in Rishon LeZion, killing a teenage boy and an elderly man.
> 
> According to the Israel Defense Forces, 29 suicide attacks were carried out by youth under the age of 18 in 2000–2003. From May 2001, 22 shootings attacks and attacks using explosive devices were carried out by youth under the age of 18, and more than 40 youths under the age of 18 were involved in attempted suicide bombings that were thwarted (three in 2004).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ukraine and Russia live side by side.
> Georgia and Russia live side by side.
> East and West Germany lived side by side.
> Ireland and Northern Ireland live side by side.
> Bosnia and Serbia live side by side despite the genocide.
> 
> No one suggested ethnic cleansing to make it more tolerable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you SERIOUS?  Ukraine and Russia, Georgia and Russia?  They are fighting still.  Egads, I've figured it out.  You are willfully blind and deaf.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, they are...HOWEVER - where are the voices calling for ethnic cleansing of one of the sides so the other can live "peaceably" with those "savages"?
> 
> They are living side by side and eventually will have to work it out.
> *
> Do you understand the difference between that and ethnic cleansing?*
Click to expand...


I don't really care about that given the circumstances.  I thought we already cleared that up.  Since the palestinians refuse to behave themselves, they don't leave Israel with any options.  They have been given PLENTY of chances to stop their terror tactics.


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> Don't overtax your brain trying to be original... stick to copy-catting... it's what you do best.


----------



## Kondor3

Now _that's_ funny, child...

Good one, for once...

And an order of magnitude better response than our colleague _pbel_ served up...

I've even got my own brand...

Very cool...

Rolls of that will sit well, side by side, with any rolls featuring a duplicate of any UN Security Council Resolution demanding that Israel retreat back to the 1967 lines by 2016...


----------



## P F Tinmore

ChrisL said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, ChrisL,  _et al,_
> 
> There is a bit of truth on both sides here; at least from the intent.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> Could you prove that point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The territory was not given to either party by anyone.  Neither the Arab Palestinians or the Israelis were not given the territorial concessions by the Ottoman Empire, the Allied Powers of WWI, or the UN.
> 
> In one case _(Israeli)_ they were given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Israelis accepted.  Conversely, the other case _(Arab Palestinian)_ was given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Arab Palestinian declined.
> 
> The land was neither taken nor given.  The world community, having trusteeship, having written the declaration of principles, established the steps preparatory to independence.  In one case there was an acceptance of the principles and the steps ---- in the other case a rejection.
> 
> The argument, as I mentioned in Post #28 of the Bertrand Russell discussion, that the territory was “given” by a foreign Power to another people for the creation of a new State is not accurate in the representation of the sequence of events.  A "foreign power" did not act.  The land was never under Palestinian Sovereignty to be taken.  And the land was not judged exclusively apportioned to one party or the other.  It is the case that the Arab Palestinian chose not to participate in the implementation process.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *All of the links I have posted say that the territory was partitioned by the UN for 2 states, one Israel and one Palestine,* and that was what the UN wished for, and America recognized Israel as a sovereign state immediately (one of my links says 11 minutes after the announcement by Israel).
Click to expand...

That is the Propaganda version. We have all heard the story a gazillion times.

The UN voted to partition Palestine. The Jews accepted their state. The Arabs rejected their state. Too bad for them.​
There are some problems with this scenario as it leaves out important information.

The UN did approve the partition of Palestine, however, Resolution 181 was a non binding General Assembly resolution that *recommended* that the Security Council implement the partition.

Britain, as the mandate, refused to implement the plan because it was not approved by both sides. The Security Council failed to implement the plan voicing the same concerns. The US withdrew its support and was drafting an alternate plan.

Resolution 181 was not implemented. No states were authorized or created. The land allotted for the Jewish state was never transferred.

Resolution 181 didn't happen.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, ChrisL,  _et al,_
> 
> There is a bit of truth on both sides here; at least from the intent.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> Could you prove that point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The territory was not given to either party by anyone.  Neither the Arab Palestinians or the Israelis were not given the territorial concessions by the Ottoman Empire, the Allied Powers of WWI, or the UN.
> 
> In one case _(Israeli)_ they were given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Israelis accepted.  Conversely, the other case _(Arab Palestinian)_ was given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Arab Palestinian declined.
> 
> The land was neither taken nor given.  The world community, having trusteeship, having written the declaration of principles, established the steps preparatory to independence.  In one case there was an acceptance of the principles and the steps ---- in the other case a rejection.
> 
> The argument, as I mentioned in Post #28 of the Bertrand Russell discussion, that the territory was “given” by a foreign Power to another people for the creation of a new State is not accurate in the representation of the sequence of events.  A "foreign power" did not act.  The land was never under Palestinian Sovereignty to be taken.  And the land was not judged exclusively apportioned to one party or the other.  It is the case that the Arab Palestinian chose not to participate in the implementation process.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *All of the links I have posted say that the territory was partitioned by the UN for 2 states, one Israel and one Palestine,* and that was what the UN wished for, and America recognized Israel as a sovereign state immediately (one of my links says 11 minutes after the announcement by Israel).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is the Propaganda version. We have all heard the story a gazillion times.
> 
> The UN voted to partition Palestine. The Jews accepted their state. The Arabs rejected their state. Too bad for them.​
> There are some problems with this scenario as it leaves out important information.
> 
> The UN did approve the partition of Palestine, however, Resolution 181 was a non binding General Assembly resolution that *recommended* that the Security Council implement the partition.
> 
> Britain, as the mandate, refused to implement the plan because it was not approved by both sides. The Security Council failed to implement the plan voicing the same concerns. The US withdrew its support and was drafting an alternate plan.
> 
> Resolution 181 was not implemented. No states were authorized or created. The land allotted for the Jewish state was never transferred.
> 
> Resolution 181 didn't happen.
Click to expand...

What happened then, Tinmore?
Where does the UN stand on this issue?


----------



## ChrisL

P F Tinmore said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, ChrisL,  _et al,_
> 
> There is a bit of truth on both sides here; at least from the intent.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> Could you prove that point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The territory was not given to either party by anyone.  Neither the Arab Palestinians or the Israelis were not given the territorial concessions by the Ottoman Empire, the Allied Powers of WWI, or the UN.
> 
> In one case _(Israeli)_ they were given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Israelis accepted.  Conversely, the other case _(Arab Palestinian)_ was given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Arab Palestinian declined.
> 
> The land was neither taken nor given.  The world community, having trusteeship, having written the declaration of principles, established the steps preparatory to independence.  In one case there was an acceptance of the principles and the steps ---- in the other case a rejection.
> 
> The argument, as I mentioned in Post #28 of the Bertrand Russell discussion, that the territory was “given” by a foreign Power to another people for the creation of a new State is not accurate in the representation of the sequence of events.  A "foreign power" did not act.  The land was never under Palestinian Sovereignty to be taken.  And the land was not judged exclusively apportioned to one party or the other.  It is the case that the Arab Palestinian chose not to participate in the implementation process.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *All of the links I have posted say that the territory was partitioned by the UN for 2 states, one Israel and one Palestine,* and that was what the UN wished for, and America recognized Israel as a sovereign state immediately (one of my links says 11 minutes after the announcement by Israel).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is the Propaganda version. We have all heard the story a gazillion times.
> 
> The UN voted to partition Palestine. The Jews accepted their state. The Arabs rejected their state. Too bad for them.​
> There are some problems with this scenario as it leaves out important information.
> 
> The UN did approve the partition of Palestine, however, Resolution 181 was a non binding General Assembly resolution that *recommended* that the Security Council implement the partition.
> 
> Britain, as the mandate, refused to implement the plan because it was not approved by both sides. The Security Council failed to implement the plan voicing the same concerns. The US withdrew its support and was drafting an alternate plan.
> 
> Resolution 181 was not implemented. No states were authorized or created. The land allotted for the Jewish state was never transferred.
> 
> Resolution 181 didn't happen.
Click to expand...


http://www.mythsandfacts.org/conflict/10/resolution-181.pdf



> *The resolution was adopted on November 29, 1947 in the General Assembly by a vote of 33-12, with 10
> abstentions. Among the supporters were the United States and the Soviet Union,
> as well as other nations including France and Australia.* The Arab nations,
> including Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia denounced the plan on the General
> Assembly floor and voted as a bloc against Resolution 181 promising to defy its
> implementation by force.
> The resolution recognized the need for immediate Jewish statehood (and a
> parallel Arab state), but the blueprint for peace became a moot issue when the
> Arabs refused to accept it. Subsequently, de facto [In Latin: realities] on the
> ground in the wake of Arab aggression (and Israel‟s survival) became the basis for
> UN efforts to bring peace.
> Aware of Arabs‟ past aggression, Resolution 181, in paragraph C, calls on the
> Security Council to:
> “Determine as a threat to the peace, breach of the peace or act of aggression, in
> accordance with Article 39 of the Charter, any attempt to alter by force the
> settlement envisaged by this resolution.” [italics by author]
> The ones who sought to alter the settlement envisioned in Resolution 181 by
> force, were the Arabs who threatened bloodshed if the United Nations was to
> adopt the Resolution:


----------



## Hossfly

ChrisL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, ChrisL,  _et al,_
> 
> There is a bit of truth on both sides here; at least from the intent.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> Could you prove that point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The territory was not given to either party by anyone.  Neither the Arab Palestinians or the Israelis were not given the territorial concessions by the Ottoman Empire, the Allied Powers of WWI, or the UN.
> 
> In one case _(Israeli)_ they were given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Israelis accepted.  Conversely, the other case _(Arab Palestinian)_ was given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Arab Palestinian declined.
> 
> The land was neither taken nor given.  The world community, having trusteeship, having written the declaration of principles, established the steps preparatory to independence.  In one case there was an acceptance of the principles and the steps ---- in the other case a rejection.
> 
> The argument, as I mentioned in Post #28 of the Bertrand Russell discussion, that the territory was “given” by a foreign Power to another people for the creation of a new State is not accurate in the representation of the sequence of events.  A "foreign power" did not act.  The land was never under Palestinian Sovereignty to be taken.  And the land was not judged exclusively apportioned to one party or the other.  It is the case that the Arab Palestinian chose not to participate in the implementation process.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *All of the links I have posted say that the territory was partitioned by the UN for 2 states, one Israel and one Palestine,* and that was what the UN wished for, and America recognized Israel as a sovereign state immediately (one of my links says 11 minutes after the announcement by Israel).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is the Propaganda version. We have all heard the story a gazillion times.
> 
> The UN voted to partition Palestine. The Jews accepted their state. The Arabs rejected their state. Too bad for them.​
> There are some problems with this scenario as it leaves out important information.
> 
> The UN did approve the partition of Palestine, however, Resolution 181 was a non binding General Assembly resolution that *recommended* that the Security Council implement the partition.
> 
> Britain, as the mandate, refused to implement the plan because it was not approved by both sides. The Security Council failed to implement the plan voicing the same concerns. The US withdrew its support and was drafting an alternate plan.
> 
> Resolution 181 was not implemented. No states were authorized or created. The land allotted for the Jewish state was never transferred.
> 
> Resolution 181 didn't happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> http://www.mythsandfacts.org/conflict/10/resolution-181.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The resolution was adopted on November 29, 1947 in the General Assembly by a vote of 33-12, with 10
> abstentions. Among the supporters were the United States and the Soviet Union,
> as well as other nations including France and Australia.* The Arab nations,
> including Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia denounced the plan on the General
> Assembly floor and voted as a bloc against Resolution 181 promising to defy its
> implementation by force.
> The resolution recognized the need for immediate Jewish statehood (and a
> parallel Arab state), but the blueprint for peace became a moot issue when the
> Arabs refused to accept it. Subsequently, de facto [In Latin: realities] on the
> ground in the wake of Arab aggression (and Israel‟s survival) became the basis for
> UN efforts to bring peace.
> Aware of Arabs‟ past aggression, Resolution 181, in paragraph C, calls on the
> Security Council to:
> “Determine as a threat to the peace, breach of the peace or act of aggression, in
> accordance with Article 39 of the Charter, any attempt to alter by force the
> settlement envisaged by this resolution.” [italics by author]
> The ones who sought to alter the settlement envisioned in Resolution 181 by
> force, were the Arabs who threatened bloodshed if the United Nations was to
> adopt the Resolution:
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Looks as if the Ayrabs missed an opportunity. Such a shame.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, ChrisL,  _et al,_
> 
> There is a bit of truth on both sides here; at least from the intent.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> Could you prove that point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The territory was not given to either party by anyone.  Neither the Arab Palestinians or the Israelis were not given the territorial concessions by the Ottoman Empire, the Allied Powers of WWI, or the UN.
> 
> In one case _(Israeli)_ they were given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Israelis accepted.  Conversely, the other case _(Arab Palestinian)_ was given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Arab Palestinian declined.
> 
> The land was neither taken nor given.  The world community, having trusteeship, having written the declaration of principles, established the steps preparatory to independence.  In one case there was an acceptance of the principles and the steps ---- in the other case a rejection.
> 
> The argument, as I mentioned in Post #28 of the Bertrand Russell discussion, that the territory was “given” by a foreign Power to another people for the creation of a new State is not accurate in the representation of the sequence of events.  A "foreign power" did not act.  The land was never under Palestinian Sovereignty to be taken.  And the land was not judged exclusively apportioned to one party or the other.  It is the case that the Arab Palestinian chose not to participate in the implementation process.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *All of the links I have posted say that the territory was partitioned by the UN for 2 states, one Israel and one Palestine,* and that was what the UN wished for, and America recognized Israel as a sovereign state immediately (one of my links says 11 minutes after the announcement by Israel).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is the Propaganda version. We have all heard the story a gazillion times.
> 
> The UN voted to partition Palestine. The Jews accepted their state. The Arabs rejected their state. Too bad for them.​
> There are some problems with this scenario as it leaves out important information.
> 
> The UN did approve the partition of Palestine, however, Resolution 181 was a non binding General Assembly resolution that *recommended* that the Security Council implement the partition.
> 
> Britain, as the mandate, refused to implement the plan because it was not approved by both sides. The Security Council failed to implement the plan voicing the same concerns. The US withdrew its support and was drafting an alternate plan.
> 
> Resolution 181 was not implemented. No states were authorized or created. The land allotted for the Jewish state was never transferred.
> 
> Resolution 181 didn't happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What happened then, Tinmore?
> Where does the UN stand on this issue?
Click to expand...

A RES 3236 XXIX of 22 November 1974


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, ChrisL,  _et al,_
> 
> There is a bit of truth on both sides here; at least from the intent.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could you prove that point?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The territory was not given to either party by anyone.  Neither the Arab Palestinians or the Israelis were not given the territorial concessions by the Ottoman Empire, the Allied Powers of WWI, or the UN.
> 
> In one case _(Israeli)_ they were given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Israelis accepted.  Conversely, the other case _(Arab Palestinian)_ was given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Arab Palestinian declined.
> 
> The land was neither taken nor given.  The world community, having trusteeship, having written the declaration of principles, established the steps preparatory to independence.  In one case there was an acceptance of the principles and the steps ---- in the other case a rejection.
> 
> The argument, as I mentioned in Post #28 of the Bertrand Russell discussion, that the territory was “given” by a foreign Power to another people for the creation of a new State is not accurate in the representation of the sequence of events.  A "foreign power" did not act.  The land was never under Palestinian Sovereignty to be taken.  And the land was not judged exclusively apportioned to one party or the other.  It is the case that the Arab Palestinian chose not to participate in the implementation process.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *All of the links I have posted say that the territory was partitioned by the UN for 2 states, one Israel and one Palestine,* and that was what the UN wished for, and America recognized Israel as a sovereign state immediately (one of my links says 11 minutes after the announcement by Israel).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is the Propaganda version. We have all heard the story a gazillion times.
> 
> The UN voted to partition Palestine. The Jews accepted their state. The Arabs rejected their state. Too bad for them.​
> There are some problems with this scenario as it leaves out important information.
> 
> The UN did approve the partition of Palestine, however, Resolution 181 was a non binding General Assembly resolution that *recommended* that the Security Council implement the partition.
> 
> Britain, as the mandate, refused to implement the plan because it was not approved by both sides. The Security Council failed to implement the plan voicing the same concerns. The US withdrew its support and was drafting an alternate plan.
> 
> Resolution 181 was not implemented. No states were authorized or created. The land allotted for the Jewish state was never transferred.
> 
> Resolution 181 didn't happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What happened then, Tinmore?
> Where does the UN stand on this issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A RES 3236 XXIX of 22 November 1974
Click to expand...

O.K. That's a resolution. What was the outcome of the vote?


----------



## ChrisL

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, ChrisL,  _et al,_
> 
> There is a bit of truth on both sides here; at least from the intent.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could you prove that point?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The territory was not given to either party by anyone.  Neither the Arab Palestinians or the Israelis were not given the territorial concessions by the Ottoman Empire, the Allied Powers of WWI, or the UN.
> 
> In one case _(Israeli)_ they were given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Israelis accepted.  Conversely, the other case _(Arab Palestinian)_ was given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Arab Palestinian declined.
> 
> The land was neither taken nor given.  The world community, having trusteeship, having written the declaration of principles, established the steps preparatory to independence.  In one case there was an acceptance of the principles and the steps ---- in the other case a rejection.
> 
> The argument, as I mentioned in Post #28 of the Bertrand Russell discussion, that the territory was “given” by a foreign Power to another people for the creation of a new State is not accurate in the representation of the sequence of events.  A "foreign power" did not act.  The land was never under Palestinian Sovereignty to be taken.  And the land was not judged exclusively apportioned to one party or the other.  It is the case that the Arab Palestinian chose not to participate in the implementation process.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *All of the links I have posted say that the territory was partitioned by the UN for 2 states, one Israel and one Palestine,* and that was what the UN wished for, and America recognized Israel as a sovereign state immediately (one of my links says 11 minutes after the announcement by Israel).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is the Propaganda version. We have all heard the story a gazillion times.
> 
> The UN voted to partition Palestine. The Jews accepted their state. The Arabs rejected their state. Too bad for them.​
> There are some problems with this scenario as it leaves out important information.
> 
> The UN did approve the partition of Palestine, however, Resolution 181 was a non binding General Assembly resolution that *recommended* that the Security Council implement the partition.
> 
> Britain, as the mandate, refused to implement the plan because it was not approved by both sides. The Security Council failed to implement the plan voicing the same concerns. The US withdrew its support and was drafting an alternate plan.
> 
> Resolution 181 was not implemented. No states were authorized or created. The land allotted for the Jewish state was never transferred.
> 
> Resolution 181 didn't happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What happened then, Tinmore?
> Where does the UN stand on this issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A RES 3236 XXIX of 22 November 1974
Click to expand...


Yeah, so?  As you can see by the link I posted, the resolution was adopted in 1947, by a majority vote, so you are wrong.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ChrisL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, ChrisL,  _et al,_
> 
> There is a bit of truth on both sides here; at least from the intent.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were given the land by the British.  If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long.  It doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> Could you prove that point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The territory was not given to either party by anyone.  Neither the Arab Palestinians or the Israelis were not given the territorial concessions by the Ottoman Empire, the Allied Powers of WWI, or the UN.
> 
> In one case _(Israeli)_ they were given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Israelis accepted.  Conversely, the other case _(Arab Palestinian)_ was given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Arab Palestinian declined.
> 
> The land was neither taken nor given.  The world community, having trusteeship, having written the declaration of principles, established the steps preparatory to independence.  In one case there was an acceptance of the principles and the steps ---- in the other case a rejection.
> 
> The argument, as I mentioned in Post #28 of the Bertrand Russell discussion, that the territory was “given” by a foreign Power to another people for the creation of a new State is not accurate in the representation of the sequence of events.  A "foreign power" did not act.  The land was never under Palestinian Sovereignty to be taken.  And the land was not judged exclusively apportioned to one party or the other.  It is the case that the Arab Palestinian chose not to participate in the implementation process.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *All of the links I have posted say that the territory was partitioned by the UN for 2 states, one Israel and one Palestine,* and that was what the UN wished for, and America recognized Israel as a sovereign state immediately (one of my links says 11 minutes after the announcement by Israel).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is the Propaganda version. We have all heard the story a gazillion times.
> 
> The UN voted to partition Palestine. The Jews accepted their state. The Arabs rejected their state. Too bad for them.​
> There are some problems with this scenario as it leaves out important information.
> 
> The UN did approve the partition of Palestine, however, Resolution 181 was a non binding General Assembly resolution that *recommended* that the Security Council implement the partition.
> 
> Britain, as the mandate, refused to implement the plan because it was not approved by both sides. The Security Council failed to implement the plan voicing the same concerns. The US withdrew its support and was drafting an alternate plan.
> 
> Resolution 181 was not implemented. No states were authorized or created. The land allotted for the Jewish state was never transferred.
> 
> Resolution 181 didn't happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> http://www.mythsandfacts.org/conflict/10/resolution-181.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The resolution was adopted on November 29, 1947 in the General Assembly by a vote of 33-12, with 10
> abstentions. Among the supporters were the United States and the Soviet Union,
> as well as other nations including France and Australia.* The Arab nations,
> including Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia denounced the plan on the General
> Assembly floor and voted as a bloc against Resolution 181 promising to defy its
> implementation by force.
> The resolution recognized the need for immediate Jewish statehood (and a
> parallel Arab state), but the blueprint for peace became a moot issue when the
> Arabs refused to accept it. Subsequently, de facto [In Latin: realities] on the
> ground in the wake of Arab aggression (and Israel‟s survival) became the basis for
> UN efforts to bring peace.
> Aware of Arabs‟ past aggression, Resolution 181, in paragraph C, calls on the
> Security Council to:
> “Determine as a threat to the peace, breach of the peace or act of aggression, in
> accordance with Article 39 of the Charter, any attempt to alter by force the
> settlement envisaged by this resolution.” [italics by author]
> The ones who sought to alter the settlement envisioned in Resolution 181 by
> force, were the Arabs who threatened bloodshed if the United Nations was to
> adopt the Resolution:
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

From your link:

What resulted was Resolution 181 [known also as the 1947 Partition Plan], a *non-binding recommendation* to partition Palestine, whose *implementation hinged on acceptance by both parties*–Arabs and Jews.

Hmmm, just as I stated.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ChrisL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, ChrisL,  _et al,_
> 
> There is a bit of truth on both sides here; at least from the intent.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The territory was not given to either party by anyone.  Neither the Arab Palestinians or the Israelis were not given the territorial concessions by the Ottoman Empire, the Allied Powers of WWI, or the UN.
> 
> In one case _(Israeli)_ they were given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Israelis accepted.  Conversely, the other case _(Arab Palestinian)_ was given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Arab Palestinian declined.
> 
> The land was neither taken nor given.  The world community, having trusteeship, having written the declaration of principles, established the steps preparatory to independence.  In one case there was an acceptance of the principles and the steps ---- in the other case a rejection.
> 
> The argument, as I mentioned in Post #28 of the Bertrand Russell discussion, that the territory was “given” by a foreign Power to another people for the creation of a new State is not accurate in the representation of the sequence of events.  A "foreign power" did not act.  The land was never under Palestinian Sovereignty to be taken.  And the land was not judged exclusively apportioned to one party or the other.  It is the case that the Arab Palestinian chose not to participate in the implementation process.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *All of the links I have posted say that the territory was partitioned by the UN for 2 states, one Israel and one Palestine,* and that was what the UN wished for, and America recognized Israel as a sovereign state immediately (one of my links says 11 minutes after the announcement by Israel).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is the Propaganda version. We have all heard the story a gazillion times.
> 
> The UN voted to partition Palestine. The Jews accepted their state. The Arabs rejected their state. Too bad for them.​
> There are some problems with this scenario as it leaves out important information.
> 
> The UN did approve the partition of Palestine, however, Resolution 181 was a non binding General Assembly resolution that *recommended* that the Security Council implement the partition.
> 
> Britain, as the mandate, refused to implement the plan because it was not approved by both sides. The Security Council failed to implement the plan voicing the same concerns. The US withdrew its support and was drafting an alternate plan.
> 
> Resolution 181 was not implemented. No states were authorized or created. The land allotted for the Jewish state was never transferred.
> 
> Resolution 181 didn't happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What happened then, Tinmore?
> Where does the UN stand on this issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A RES 3236 XXIX of 22 November 1974
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, so?  As you can see by the link I posted, the resolution was adopted in 1947, by a majority vote, so you are wrong.
Click to expand...

I never said it wasn't. I said it was approved.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, ChrisL,  _et al,_
> 
> There is a bit of truth on both sides here; at least from the intent.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could you prove that point?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The territory was not given to either party by anyone.  Neither the Arab Palestinians or the Israelis were not given the territorial concessions by the Ottoman Empire, the Allied Powers of WWI, or the UN.
> 
> In one case _(Israeli)_ they were given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Israelis accepted.  Conversely, the other case _(Arab Palestinian)_ was given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Arab Palestinian declined.
> 
> The land was neither taken nor given.  The world community, having trusteeship, having written the declaration of principles, established the steps preparatory to independence.  In one case there was an acceptance of the principles and the steps ---- in the other case a rejection.
> 
> The argument, as I mentioned in Post #28 of the Bertrand Russell discussion, that the territory was “given” by a foreign Power to another people for the creation of a new State is not accurate in the representation of the sequence of events.  A "foreign power" did not act.  The land was never under Palestinian Sovereignty to be taken.  And the land was not judged exclusively apportioned to one party or the other.  It is the case that the Arab Palestinian chose not to participate in the implementation process.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *All of the links I have posted say that the territory was partitioned by the UN for 2 states, one Israel and one Palestine,* and that was what the UN wished for, and America recognized Israel as a sovereign state immediately (one of my links says 11 minutes after the announcement by Israel).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is the Propaganda version. We have all heard the story a gazillion times.
> 
> The UN voted to partition Palestine. The Jews accepted their state. The Arabs rejected their state. Too bad for them.​
> There are some problems with this scenario as it leaves out important information.
> 
> The UN did approve the partition of Palestine, however, Resolution 181 was a non binding General Assembly resolution that *recommended* that the Security Council implement the partition.
> 
> Britain, as the mandate, refused to implement the plan because it was not approved by both sides. The Security Council failed to implement the plan voicing the same concerns. The US withdrew its support and was drafting an alternate plan.
> 
> Resolution 181 was not implemented. No states were authorized or created. The land allotted for the Jewish state was never transferred.
> 
> Resolution 181 didn't happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> http://www.mythsandfacts.org/conflict/10/resolution-181.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The resolution was adopted on November 29, 1947 in the General Assembly by a vote of 33-12, with 10
> abstentions. Among the supporters were the United States and the Soviet Union,
> as well as other nations including France and Australia.* The Arab nations,
> including Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia denounced the plan on the General
> Assembly floor and voted as a bloc against Resolution 181 promising to defy its
> implementation by force.
> The resolution recognized the need for immediate Jewish statehood (and a
> parallel Arab state), but the blueprint for peace became a moot issue when the
> Arabs refused to accept it. Subsequently, de facto [In Latin: realities] on the
> ground in the wake of Arab aggression (and Israel‟s survival) became the basis for
> UN efforts to bring peace.
> Aware of Arabs‟ past aggression, Resolution 181, in paragraph C, calls on the
> Security Council to:
> “Determine as a threat to the peace, breach of the peace or act of aggression, in
> accordance with Article 39 of the Charter, any attempt to alter by force the
> settlement envisaged by this resolution.” [italics by author]
> The ones who sought to alter the settlement envisioned in Resolution 181 by
> force, were the Arabs who threatened bloodshed if the United Nations was to
> adopt the Resolution:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From your link:
> 
> What resulted was Resolution 181 [known also as the 1947 Partition Plan], a *non-binding recommendation* to partition Palestine, whose *implementation hinged on acceptance by both parties*–Arabs and Jews.
> 
> Hmmm, just as I stated.
Click to expand...

Doubletalk.


----------



## ChrisL

P F Tinmore said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, ChrisL,  _et al,_
> 
> There is a bit of truth on both sides here; at least from the intent.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could you prove that point?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The territory was not given to either party by anyone.  Neither the Arab Palestinians or the Israelis were not given the territorial concessions by the Ottoman Empire, the Allied Powers of WWI, or the UN.
> 
> In one case _(Israeli)_ they were given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Israelis accepted.  Conversely, the other case _(Arab Palestinian)_ was given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Arab Palestinian declined.
> 
> The land was neither taken nor given.  The world community, having trusteeship, having written the declaration of principles, established the steps preparatory to independence.  In one case there was an acceptance of the principles and the steps ---- in the other case a rejection.
> 
> The argument, as I mentioned in Post #28 of the Bertrand Russell discussion, that the territory was “given” by a foreign Power to another people for the creation of a new State is not accurate in the representation of the sequence of events.  A "foreign power" did not act.  The land was never under Palestinian Sovereignty to be taken.  And the land was not judged exclusively apportioned to one party or the other.  It is the case that the Arab Palestinian chose not to participate in the implementation process.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *All of the links I have posted say that the territory was partitioned by the UN for 2 states, one Israel and one Palestine,* and that was what the UN wished for, and America recognized Israel as a sovereign state immediately (one of my links says 11 minutes after the announcement by Israel).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is the Propaganda version. We have all heard the story a gazillion times.
> 
> The UN voted to partition Palestine. The Jews accepted their state. The Arabs rejected their state. Too bad for them.​
> There are some problems with this scenario as it leaves out important information.
> 
> The UN did approve the partition of Palestine, however, Resolution 181 was a non binding General Assembly resolution that *recommended* that the Security Council implement the partition.
> 
> Britain, as the mandate, refused to implement the plan because it was not approved by both sides. The Security Council failed to implement the plan voicing the same concerns. The US withdrew its support and was drafting an alternate plan.
> 
> Resolution 181 was not implemented. No states were authorized or created. The land allotted for the Jewish state was never transferred.
> 
> Resolution 181 didn't happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> http://www.mythsandfacts.org/conflict/10/resolution-181.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The resolution was adopted on November 29, 1947 in the General Assembly by a vote of 33-12, with 10
> abstentions. Among the supporters were the United States and the Soviet Union,
> as well as other nations including France and Australia.* The Arab nations,
> including Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia denounced the plan on the General
> Assembly floor and voted as a bloc against Resolution 181 promising to defy its
> implementation by force.
> The resolution recognized the need for immediate Jewish statehood (and a
> parallel Arab state), but the blueprint for peace became a moot issue when the
> Arabs refused to accept it. Subsequently, de facto [In Latin: realities] on the
> ground in the wake of Arab aggression (and Israel‟s survival) became the basis for
> UN efforts to bring peace.
> Aware of Arabs‟ past aggression, Resolution 181, in paragraph C, calls on the
> Security Council to:
> “Determine as a threat to the peace, breach of the peace or act of aggression, in
> accordance with Article 39 of the Charter, any attempt to alter by force the
> settlement envisaged by this resolution.” [italics by author]
> The ones who sought to alter the settlement envisioned in Resolution 181 by
> force, were the Arabs who threatened bloodshed if the United Nations was to
> adopt the Resolution:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From your link:
> 
> What resulted was Resolution 181 [known also as the 1947 Partition Plan], a *non-binding recommendation* to partition Palestine, whose *implementation hinged on acceptance by both parties*–Arabs and Jews.
> 
> Hmmm, just as I stated.
Click to expand...


It was adopted and implemented.  They ignored the Arabs because they were such arrogant bastards.  See below, from the same link I posted last time.  Note where it says "following the PASSAGE of . . . "



> Arab Aggression Before and After the Adoption of
> Resolution 181
> *Following passage of Resolution 181 by the General Assembly*, Arab countries
> took the dais to reiterate their absolute rejection of the recommendation and
> intention to render implementation of Resolution 181 a moot question by the use
> of force. These examples from the transcript of the General Assembly plenary
> meeting on November 29, 1947 speak for themselves:
> “Mr. JAMALI (Iraq): … We believe that the decision which we have now taken …
> undermines peace, justice and democracy. In the name of my Government, I wish
> to state that it feels that this decision is antidemocratic, illegal, impractical and
> contrary to the Charter … Therefore, in the name of my Government, I wish to
> put on record that Iraq does not recognize the validity of this decision, will
> reserve freedom of action towards its implementation, and holds those who were
> influential in passing it against the free conscience of mankind responsible for the
> consequences.”
> “Amir. ARSLAN (Syria): … Gentlemen, the Charter is dead. But it did not die a
> natural death; it was murdered, and you all know who is guilty. My country will
> never recognize such a decision [Partition]. It will never agree to be responsible
> for it. Let the consequences be on the heads of others, not on ours.”
> “H. R. H. Prince Seif El ISLAM ABDULLAH (Yemen): The Yemen delegation has
> stated previously that the partition plan is contrary to justice and to the Charter
> of the United Nations. Therefore, the Government of Yemen does not consider
> itself bound by such a decision … and will reserve its freedom of action towards
> the implementation of this decision.”8


----------



## P F Tinmore

ChrisL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, ChrisL,  _et al,_
> 
> There is a bit of truth on both sides here; at least from the intent.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The territory was not given to either party by anyone.  Neither the Arab Palestinians or the Israelis were not given the territorial concessions by the Ottoman Empire, the Allied Powers of WWI, or the UN.
> 
> In one case _(Israeli)_ they were given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Israelis accepted.  Conversely, the other case _(Arab Palestinian)_ was given an avenue the UN General Assembly found acceptable, to exercise the right of self-determination; and the Arab Palestinian declined.
> 
> The land was neither taken nor given.  The world community, having trusteeship, having written the declaration of principles, established the steps preparatory to independence.  In one case there was an acceptance of the principles and the steps ---- in the other case a rejection.
> 
> The argument, as I mentioned in Post #28 of the Bertrand Russell discussion, that the territory was “given” by a foreign Power to another people for the creation of a new State is not accurate in the representation of the sequence of events.  A "foreign power" did not act.  The land was never under Palestinian Sovereignty to be taken.  And the land was not judged exclusively apportioned to one party or the other.  It is the case that the Arab Palestinian chose not to participate in the implementation process.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *All of the links I have posted say that the territory was partitioned by the UN for 2 states, one Israel and one Palestine,* and that was what the UN wished for, and America recognized Israel as a sovereign state immediately (one of my links says 11 minutes after the announcement by Israel).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is the Propaganda version. We have all heard the story a gazillion times.
> 
> The UN voted to partition Palestine. The Jews accepted their state. The Arabs rejected their state. Too bad for them.​
> There are some problems with this scenario as it leaves out important information.
> 
> The UN did approve the partition of Palestine, however, Resolution 181 was a non binding General Assembly resolution that *recommended* that the Security Council implement the partition.
> 
> Britain, as the mandate, refused to implement the plan because it was not approved by both sides. The Security Council failed to implement the plan voicing the same concerns. The US withdrew its support and was drafting an alternate plan.
> 
> Resolution 181 was not implemented. No states were authorized or created. The land allotted for the Jewish state was never transferred.
> 
> Resolution 181 didn't happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> http://www.mythsandfacts.org/conflict/10/resolution-181.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The resolution was adopted on November 29, 1947 in the General Assembly by a vote of 33-12, with 10
> abstentions. Among the supporters were the United States and the Soviet Union,
> as well as other nations including France and Australia.* The Arab nations,
> including Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia denounced the plan on the General
> Assembly floor and voted as a bloc against Resolution 181 promising to defy its
> implementation by force.
> The resolution recognized the need for immediate Jewish statehood (and a
> parallel Arab state), but the blueprint for peace became a moot issue when the
> Arabs refused to accept it. Subsequently, de facto [In Latin: realities] on the
> ground in the wake of Arab aggression (and Israel‟s survival) became the basis for
> UN efforts to bring peace.
> Aware of Arabs‟ past aggression, Resolution 181, in paragraph C, calls on the
> Security Council to:
> “Determine as a threat to the peace, breach of the peace or act of aggression, in
> accordance with Article 39 of the Charter, any attempt to alter by force the
> settlement envisaged by this resolution.” [italics by author]
> The ones who sought to alter the settlement envisioned in Resolution 181 by
> force, were the Arabs who threatened bloodshed if the United Nations was to
> adopt the Resolution:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From your link:
> 
> What resulted was Resolution 181 [known also as the 1947 Partition Plan], a *non-binding recommendation* to partition Palestine, whose *implementation hinged on acceptance by both parties*–Arabs and Jews.
> 
> Hmmm, just as I stated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was adopted and implemented.  They ignored the Arabs because they were such arrogant bastards.  See below, from the same link I posted last time.  Note where it says "following the PASSAGE of . . . "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arab Aggression Before and After the Adoption of
> Resolution 181
> *Following passage of Resolution 181 by the General Assembly*, Arab countries
> took the dais to reiterate their absolute rejection of the recommendation and
> intention to render implementation of Resolution 181 a moot question by the use
> of force. These examples from the transcript of the General Assembly plenary
> meeting on November 29, 1947 speak for themselves:
> “Mr. JAMALI (Iraq): … We believe that the decision which we have now taken …
> undermines peace, justice and democracy. In the name of my Government, I wish
> to state that it feels that this decision is antidemocratic, illegal, impractical and
> contrary to the Charter … Therefore, in the name of my Government, I wish to
> put on record that Iraq does not recognize the validity of this decision, will
> reserve freedom of action towards its implementation, and holds those who were
> influential in passing it against the free conscience of mankind responsible for the
> consequences.”
> “Amir. ARSLAN (Syria): … Gentlemen, the Charter is dead. But it did not die a
> natural death; it was murdered, and you all know who is guilty. My country will
> never recognize such a decision [Partition]. It will never agree to be responsible
> for it. Let the consequences be on the heads of others, not on ours.”
> “H. R. H. Prince Seif El ISLAM ABDULLAH (Yemen): The Yemen delegation has
> stated previously that the partition plan is contrary to justice and to the Charter
> of the United Nations. Therefore, the Government of Yemen does not consider
> itself bound by such a decision … and will reserve its freedom of action towards
> the implementation of this decision.”8
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Where does it say that resolution 181 was implemented?


----------



## ChrisL

P F Tinmore said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> *All of the links I have posted say that the territory was partitioned by the UN for 2 states, one Israel and one Palestine,* and that was what the UN wished for, and America recognized Israel as a sovereign state immediately (one of my links says 11 minutes after the announcement by Israel).
> 
> 
> 
> That is the Propaganda version. We have all heard the story a gazillion times.
> 
> The UN voted to partition Palestine. The Jews accepted their state. The Arabs rejected their state. Too bad for them.​
> There are some problems with this scenario as it leaves out important information.
> 
> The UN did approve the partition of Palestine, however, Resolution 181 was a non binding General Assembly resolution that *recommended* that the Security Council implement the partition.
> 
> Britain, as the mandate, refused to implement the plan because it was not approved by both sides. The Security Council failed to implement the plan voicing the same concerns. The US withdrew its support and was drafting an alternate plan.
> 
> Resolution 181 was not implemented. No states were authorized or created. The land allotted for the Jewish state was never transferred.
> 
> Resolution 181 didn't happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> http://www.mythsandfacts.org/conflict/10/resolution-181.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The resolution was adopted on November 29, 1947 in the General Assembly by a vote of 33-12, with 10
> abstentions. Among the supporters were the United States and the Soviet Union,
> as well as other nations including France and Australia.* The Arab nations,
> including Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia denounced the plan on the General
> Assembly floor and voted as a bloc against Resolution 181 promising to defy its
> implementation by force.
> The resolution recognized the need for immediate Jewish statehood (and a
> parallel Arab state), but the blueprint for peace became a moot issue when the
> Arabs refused to accept it. Subsequently, de facto [In Latin: realities] on the
> ground in the wake of Arab aggression (and Israel‟s survival) became the basis for
> UN efforts to bring peace.
> Aware of Arabs‟ past aggression, Resolution 181, in paragraph C, calls on the
> Security Council to:
> “Determine as a threat to the peace, breach of the peace or act of aggression, in
> accordance with Article 39 of the Charter, any attempt to alter by force the
> settlement envisaged by this resolution.” [italics by author]
> The ones who sought to alter the settlement envisioned in Resolution 181 by
> force, were the Arabs who threatened bloodshed if the United Nations was to
> adopt the Resolution:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From your link:
> 
> What resulted was Resolution 181 [known also as the 1947 Partition Plan], a *non-binding recommendation* to partition Palestine, whose *implementation hinged on acceptance by both parties*–Arabs and Jews.
> 
> Hmmm, just as I stated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was adopted and implemented.  They ignored the Arabs because they were such arrogant bastards.  See below, from the same link I posted last time.  Note where it says "following the PASSAGE of . . . "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arab Aggression Before and After the Adoption of
> Resolution 181
> *Following passage of Resolution 181 by the General Assembly*, Arab countries
> took the dais to reiterate their absolute rejection of the recommendation and
> intention to render implementation of Resolution 181 a moot question by the use
> of force. These examples from the transcript of the General Assembly plenary
> meeting on November 29, 1947 speak for themselves:
> “Mr. JAMALI (Iraq): … We believe that the decision which we have now taken …
> undermines peace, justice and democracy. In the name of my Government, I wish
> to state that it feels that this decision is antidemocratic, illegal, impractical and
> contrary to the Charter … Therefore, in the name of my Government, I wish to
> put on record that Iraq does not recognize the validity of this decision, will
> reserve freedom of action towards its implementation, and holds those who were
> influential in passing it against the free conscience of mankind responsible for the
> consequences.”
> “Amir. ARSLAN (Syria): … Gentlemen, the Charter is dead. But it did not die a
> natural death; it was murdered, and you all know who is guilty. My country will
> never recognize such a decision [Partition]. It will never agree to be responsible
> for it. Let the consequences be on the heads of others, not on ours.”
> “H. R. H. Prince Seif El ISLAM ABDULLAH (Yemen): The Yemen delegation has
> stated previously that the partition plan is contrary to justice and to the Charter
> of the United Nations. Therefore, the Government of Yemen does not consider
> itself bound by such a decision … and will reserve its freedom of action towards
> the implementation of this decision.”8
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does it say that resolution 181 was implemented?
Click to expand...


Here, when it was determined that Israel's statehood should not be dependent upon agreement by the Arabs (because everyone knew they would never agree to ANYTHING - just like today - nothing has changed).  Nobody liked them then, and nobody likes them now.  Below was the determination of people who tried everything to get the Arabs to compromise.  So, Israel was allowed to determine it's own destiny, fought the WARS like I mentioned earlier in the thread, won the land.  

What's really funny is that the Arabs and palestinians actually WANTED to resurrect Resolution.  LOL!  Everyone just laughed at them because they are SO ridiculous.  



> “The coming into existence of Israel does not depend legally upon the Resolution.
> The right of a State to exist flows from its factual existence-especially when that
> existence is prolonged shows every sign of continuance and is recognised by the
> generality of nations.”12
> Reviewing Lauterpacht‟s arguments, Professor Stone, a distinguished authority
> on the Law of Nations, added that Israel‟s “legitimacy” or the “legal foundation”
> for its birth does not reside with the United Nations‟ Partition Plan, which as a
> consequence of Arab actions became a dead issue. Professor Stone concluded:
> “The State of Israel is thus not legally derived from the partition plan, but rests
> (as do most other states in the world) on assertion of independence by its people
> and government, on the vindication of that independence by arms against assault
> by other states, and on the establishment of orderly government within territory
> under its stable control.”13


----------



## P F Tinmore

ChrisL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is the Propaganda version. We have all heard the story a gazillion times.
> 
> The UN voted to partition Palestine. The Jews accepted their state. The Arabs rejected their state. Too bad for them.​
> There are some problems with this scenario as it leaves out important information.
> 
> The UN did approve the partition of Palestine, however, Resolution 181 was a non binding General Assembly resolution that *recommended* that the Security Council implement the partition.
> 
> Britain, as the mandate, refused to implement the plan because it was not approved by both sides. The Security Council failed to implement the plan voicing the same concerns. The US withdrew its support and was drafting an alternate plan.
> 
> Resolution 181 was not implemented. No states were authorized or created. The land allotted for the Jewish state was never transferred.
> 
> Resolution 181 didn't happen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.mythsandfacts.org/conflict/10/resolution-181.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The resolution was adopted on November 29, 1947 in the General Assembly by a vote of 33-12, with 10
> abstentions. Among the supporters were the United States and the Soviet Union,
> as well as other nations including France and Australia.* The Arab nations,
> including Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia denounced the plan on the General
> Assembly floor and voted as a bloc against Resolution 181 promising to defy its
> implementation by force.
> The resolution recognized the need for immediate Jewish statehood (and a
> parallel Arab state), but the blueprint for peace became a moot issue when the
> Arabs refused to accept it. Subsequently, de facto [In Latin: realities] on the
> ground in the wake of Arab aggression (and Israel‟s survival) became the basis for
> UN efforts to bring peace.
> Aware of Arabs‟ past aggression, Resolution 181, in paragraph C, calls on the
> Security Council to:
> “Determine as a threat to the peace, breach of the peace or act of aggression, in
> accordance with Article 39 of the Charter, any attempt to alter by force the
> settlement envisaged by this resolution.” [italics by author]
> The ones who sought to alter the settlement envisioned in Resolution 181 by
> force, were the Arabs who threatened bloodshed if the United Nations was to
> adopt the Resolution:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From your link:
> 
> What resulted was Resolution 181 [known also as the 1947 Partition Plan], a *non-binding recommendation* to partition Palestine, whose *implementation hinged on acceptance by both parties*–Arabs and Jews.
> 
> Hmmm, just as I stated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was adopted and implemented.  They ignored the Arabs because they were such arrogant bastards.  See below, from the same link I posted last time.  Note where it says "following the PASSAGE of . . . "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arab Aggression Before and After the Adoption of
> Resolution 181
> *Following passage of Resolution 181 by the General Assembly*, Arab countries
> took the dais to reiterate their absolute rejection of the recommendation and
> intention to render implementation of Resolution 181 a moot question by the use
> of force. These examples from the transcript of the General Assembly plenary
> meeting on November 29, 1947 speak for themselves:
> “Mr. JAMALI (Iraq): … We believe that the decision which we have now taken …
> undermines peace, justice and democracy. In the name of my Government, I wish
> to state that it feels that this decision is antidemocratic, illegal, impractical and
> contrary to the Charter … Therefore, in the name of my Government, I wish to
> put on record that Iraq does not recognize the validity of this decision, will
> reserve freedom of action towards its implementation, and holds those who were
> influential in passing it against the free conscience of mankind responsible for the
> consequences.”
> “Amir. ARSLAN (Syria): … Gentlemen, the Charter is dead. But it did not die a
> natural death; it was murdered, and you all know who is guilty. My country will
> never recognize such a decision [Partition]. It will never agree to be responsible
> for it. Let the consequences be on the heads of others, not on ours.”
> “H. R. H. Prince Seif El ISLAM ABDULLAH (Yemen): The Yemen delegation has
> stated previously that the partition plan is contrary to justice and to the Charter
> of the United Nations. Therefore, the Government of Yemen does not consider
> itself bound by such a decision … and will reserve its freedom of action towards
> the implementation of this decision.”8
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does it say that resolution 181 was implemented?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here, when it was determined that Israel's statehood should not be dependent upon agreement by the Arabs (because everyone knew they would never agree to ANYTHING - just like today - nothing has changed).  Nobody liked them then, and nobody likes them now.  Below was the determination of people who tried everything to get the Arabs to compromise.  *So, Israel was allowed to determine it's own destiny, fought the WARS like I mentioned earlier in the thread, won the land. *
> 
> What's really funny is that the Arabs and palestinians actually WANTED to resurrect Resolution.  LOL!  Everyone just laughed at them because they are SO ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “The coming into existence of Israel does not depend legally upon the Resolution.
> The right of a State to exist flows from its factual existence-especially when that
> existence is prolonged shows every sign of continuance and is recognised by the
> generality of nations.”12
> Reviewing Lauterpacht‟s arguments, Professor Stone, a distinguished authority
> on the Law of Nations, added that Israel‟s “legitimacy” or the “legal foundation”
> for its birth does not reside with the United Nations‟ Partition Plan, which as a
> consequence of Arab actions became a dead issue. Professor Stone concluded:
> “The State of Israel is thus not legally derived from the partition plan, but rests
> (as do most other states in the world) on assertion of independence by its people
> and government, on the vindication of that independence by arms against assault
> by other states, and on the establishment of orderly government within territory
> under its stable control.”13
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Got links?


----------



## ChrisL

Ha-ha!  All of this just goes to show how dishonest the Arabs (palestinians) are, and how they cannot be trusted.  



> Attempts by Palestinians to roll back the clock and resuscitate Resolution 181
> more than six decades after they rejected it as if nothing had happened are a
> baseless ploy designed to use Resolution 181 as leverage to bring about a greater
> Israeli withdrawal from parts of western Palestine and to gain a broader base
> from which to continue to attack an Israel with even less defendable borders.
> Both Palestinians and their Arab brethren in neighboring countries rendered the
> plan null and void by their own subsequent aggressive actions.
> 
> Professor Stone wrote about this novelty of resurrection in 1981 when he
> analyzed a similar attempt by pro-Palestinian experts at the UN to rewrite the
> history of the conflict (their writings were termed “studies”). Stone called it
> “revival of the dead.”
> 
> “To attempt to show … that Resolution 181(II) „remains‟ in force in 1981 is thus an
> undertaking even more miraculous than would be the revival of the dead. It is an
> attempt to give life to an entity that the Arab states had themselves aborted
> before it came to maturity and birth. To propose that Resolution 181(II) can be
> treated as if it has binding force in 1981, [E.H., the year the book was written] for
> the benefit of the same Arab states, who by their aggression destroyed it ab initio,
> [In Latin: From the beginning] also violates „general principles of law,‟ such as
> those requiring claimants to equity to come „with clean hands,‟ and forbidding a
> party who has unlawfully repudiated a transaction from holding the other party
> to terms that suit the later expediencies of the repudiating party.”11 [italics by
> author].


----------



## ChrisL

P F Tinmore said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.mythsandfacts.org/conflict/10/resolution-181.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> From your link:
> 
> What resulted was Resolution 181 [known also as the 1947 Partition Plan], a *non-binding recommendation* to partition Palestine, whose *implementation hinged on acceptance by both parties*–Arabs and Jews.
> 
> Hmmm, just as I stated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was adopted and implemented.  They ignored the Arabs because they were such arrogant bastards.  See below, from the same link I posted last time.  Note where it says "following the PASSAGE of . . . "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arab Aggression Before and After the Adoption of
> Resolution 181
> *Following passage of Resolution 181 by the General Assembly*, Arab countries
> took the dais to reiterate their absolute rejection of the recommendation and
> intention to render implementation of Resolution 181 a moot question by the use
> of force. These examples from the transcript of the General Assembly plenary
> meeting on November 29, 1947 speak for themselves:
> “Mr. JAMALI (Iraq): … We believe that the decision which we have now taken …
> undermines peace, justice and democracy. In the name of my Government, I wish
> to state that it feels that this decision is antidemocratic, illegal, impractical and
> contrary to the Charter … Therefore, in the name of my Government, I wish to
> put on record that Iraq does not recognize the validity of this decision, will
> reserve freedom of action towards its implementation, and holds those who were
> influential in passing it against the free conscience of mankind responsible for the
> consequences.”
> “Amir. ARSLAN (Syria): … Gentlemen, the Charter is dead. But it did not die a
> natural death; it was murdered, and you all know who is guilty. My country will
> never recognize such a decision [Partition]. It will never agree to be responsible
> for it. Let the consequences be on the heads of others, not on ours.”
> “H. R. H. Prince Seif El ISLAM ABDULLAH (Yemen): The Yemen delegation has
> stated previously that the partition plan is contrary to justice and to the Charter
> of the United Nations. Therefore, the Government of Yemen does not consider
> itself bound by such a decision … and will reserve its freedom of action towards
> the implementation of this decision.”8
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does it say that resolution 181 was implemented?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here, when it was determined that Israel's statehood should not be dependent upon agreement by the Arabs (because everyone knew they would never agree to ANYTHING - just like today - nothing has changed).  Nobody liked them then, and nobody likes them now.  Below was the determination of people who tried everything to get the Arabs to compromise.  *So, Israel was allowed to determine it's own destiny, fought the WARS like I mentioned earlier in the thread, won the land. *
> 
> What's really funny is that the Arabs and palestinians actually WANTED to resurrect Resolution.  LOL!  Everyone just laughed at them because they are SO ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “The coming into existence of Israel does not depend legally upon the Resolution.
> The right of a State to exist flows from its factual existence-especially when that
> existence is prolonged shows every sign of continuance and is recognised by the
> generality of nations.”12
> Reviewing Lauterpacht‟s arguments, Professor Stone, a distinguished authority
> on the Law of Nations, added that Israel‟s “legitimacy” or the “legal foundation”
> for its birth does not reside with the United Nations‟ Partition Plan, which as a
> consequence of Arab actions became a dead issue. Professor Stone concluded:
> “The State of Israel is thus not legally derived from the partition plan, but rests
> (as do most other states in the world) on assertion of independence by its people
> and government, on the vindication of that independence by arms against assault
> by other states, and on the establishment of orderly government within territory
> under its stable control.”13
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Got links?
Click to expand...


It's in the post you quoted.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ChrisL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> From your link:
> 
> What resulted was Resolution 181 [known also as the 1947 Partition Plan], a *non-binding recommendation* to partition Palestine, whose *implementation hinged on acceptance by both parties*–Arabs and Jews.
> 
> Hmmm, just as I stated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was adopted and implemented.  They ignored the Arabs because they were such arrogant bastards.  See below, from the same link I posted last time.  Note where it says "following the PASSAGE of . . . "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arab Aggression Before and After the Adoption of
> Resolution 181
> *Following passage of Resolution 181 by the General Assembly*, Arab countries
> took the dais to reiterate their absolute rejection of the recommendation and
> intention to render implementation of Resolution 181 a moot question by the use
> of force. These examples from the transcript of the General Assembly plenary
> meeting on November 29, 1947 speak for themselves:
> “Mr. JAMALI (Iraq): … We believe that the decision which we have now taken …
> undermines peace, justice and democracy. In the name of my Government, I wish
> to state that it feels that this decision is antidemocratic, illegal, impractical and
> contrary to the Charter … Therefore, in the name of my Government, I wish to
> put on record that Iraq does not recognize the validity of this decision, will
> reserve freedom of action towards its implementation, and holds those who were
> influential in passing it against the free conscience of mankind responsible for the
> consequences.”
> “Amir. ARSLAN (Syria): … Gentlemen, the Charter is dead. But it did not die a
> natural death; it was murdered, and you all know who is guilty. My country will
> never recognize such a decision [Partition]. It will never agree to be responsible
> for it. Let the consequences be on the heads of others, not on ours.”
> “H. R. H. Prince Seif El ISLAM ABDULLAH (Yemen): The Yemen delegation has
> stated previously that the partition plan is contrary to justice and to the Charter
> of the United Nations. Therefore, the Government of Yemen does not consider
> itself bound by such a decision … and will reserve its freedom of action towards
> the implementation of this decision.”8
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does it say that resolution 181 was implemented?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here, when it was determined that Israel's statehood should not be dependent upon agreement by the Arabs (because everyone knew they would never agree to ANYTHING - just like today - nothing has changed).  Nobody liked them then, and nobody likes them now.  Below was the determination of people who tried everything to get the Arabs to compromise.  *So, Israel was allowed to determine it's own destiny, fought the WARS like I mentioned earlier in the thread, won the land. *
> 
> What's really funny is that the Arabs and palestinians actually WANTED to resurrect Resolution.  LOL!  Everyone just laughed at them because they are SO ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “The coming into existence of Israel does not depend legally upon the Resolution.
> The right of a State to exist flows from its factual existence-especially when that
> existence is prolonged shows every sign of continuance and is recognised by the
> generality of nations.”12
> Reviewing Lauterpacht‟s arguments, Professor Stone, a distinguished authority
> on the Law of Nations, added that Israel‟s “legitimacy” or the “legal foundation”
> for its birth does not reside with the United Nations‟ Partition Plan, which as a
> consequence of Arab actions became a dead issue. Professor Stone concluded:
> “The State of Israel is thus not legally derived from the partition plan, but rests
> (as do most other states in the world) on assertion of independence by its people
> and government, on the vindication of that independence by arms against assault
> by other states, and on the establishment of orderly government within territory
> under its stable control.”13
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Got links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's in the post you quoted.
Click to expand...

I didn't see the highlighted text

"*So, Israel was allowed to determine it's own destiny, fought the WARS like I mentioned earlier in the thread, won the land. "*

in your link.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was adopted and implemented.  They ignored the Arabs because they were such arrogant bastards.  See below, from the same link I posted last time.  Note where it says "following the PASSAGE of . . . "
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it say that resolution 181 was implemented?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here, when it was determined that Israel's statehood should not be dependent upon agreement by the Arabs (because everyone knew they would never agree to ANYTHING - just like today - nothing has changed).  Nobody liked them then, and nobody likes them now.  Below was the determination of people who tried everything to get the Arabs to compromise.  *So, Israel was allowed to determine it's own destiny, fought the WARS like I mentioned earlier in the thread, won the land. *
> 
> What's really funny is that the Arabs and palestinians actually WANTED to resurrect Resolution.  LOL!  Everyone just laughed at them because they are SO ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “The coming into existence of Israel does not depend legally upon the Resolution.
> The right of a State to exist flows from its factual existence-especially when that
> existence is prolonged shows every sign of continuance and is recognised by the
> generality of nations.”12
> Reviewing Lauterpacht‟s arguments, Professor Stone, a distinguished authority
> on the Law of Nations, added that Israel‟s “legitimacy” or the “legal foundation”
> for its birth does not reside with the United Nations‟ Partition Plan, which as a
> consequence of Arab actions became a dead issue. Professor Stone concluded:
> “The State of Israel is thus not legally derived from the partition plan, but rests
> (as do most other states in the world) on assertion of independence by its people
> and government, on the vindication of that independence by arms against assault
> by other states, and on the establishment of orderly government within territory
> under its stable control.”13
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Got links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's in the post you quoted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't see the highlighted text
> 
> "*So, Israel was allowed to determine it's own destiny, fought the WARS like I mentioned earlier in the thread, won the land. "*
> 
> in your link.
Click to expand...

What's wrong with what he said ? It's completely true. You should know this


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it say that resolution 181 was implemented?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here, when it was determined that Israel's statehood should not be dependent upon agreement by the Arabs (because everyone knew they would never agree to ANYTHING - just like today - nothing has changed).  Nobody liked them then, and nobody likes them now.  Below was the determination of people who tried everything to get the Arabs to compromise.  *So, Israel was allowed to determine it's own destiny, fought the WARS like I mentioned earlier in the thread, won the land. *
> 
> What's really funny is that the Arabs and palestinians actually WANTED to resurrect Resolution.  LOL!  Everyone just laughed at them because they are SO ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “The coming into existence of Israel does not depend legally upon the Resolution.
> The right of a State to exist flows from its factual existence-especially when that
> existence is prolonged shows every sign of continuance and is recognised by the
> generality of nations.”12
> Reviewing Lauterpacht‟s arguments, Professor Stone, a distinguished authority
> on the Law of Nations, added that Israel‟s “legitimacy” or the “legal foundation”
> for its birth does not reside with the United Nations‟ Partition Plan, which as a
> consequence of Arab actions became a dead issue. Professor Stone concluded:
> “The State of Israel is thus not legally derived from the partition plan, but rests
> (as do most other states in the world) on assertion of independence by its people
> and government, on the vindication of that independence by arms against assault
> by other states, and on the establishment of orderly government within territory
> under its stable control.”13
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Got links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's in the post you quoted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't see the highlighted text
> 
> "*So, Israel was allowed to determine it's own destiny, fought the WARS like I mentioned earlier in the thread, won the land. "*
> 
> in your link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's wrong with what he said ? It's completely true. You should know this
Click to expand...

Then there should be no problem to provide a link.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here, when it was determined that Israel's statehood should not be dependent upon agreement by the Arabs (because everyone knew they would never agree to ANYTHING - just like today - nothing has changed).  Nobody liked them then, and nobody likes them now.  Below was the determination of people who tried everything to get the Arabs to compromise.  *So, Israel was allowed to determine it's own destiny, fought the WARS like I mentioned earlier in the thread, won the land. *
> 
> What's really funny is that the Arabs and palestinians actually WANTED to resurrect Resolution.  LOL!  Everyone just laughed at them because they are SO ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> Got links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's in the post you quoted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't see the highlighted text
> 
> "*So, Israel was allowed to determine it's own destiny, fought the WARS like I mentioned earlier in the thread, won the land. "*
> 
> in your link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's wrong with what he said ? It's completely true. You should know this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then there should be no problem to provide a link.
Click to expand...





P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here, when it was determined that Israel's statehood should not be dependent upon agreement by the Arabs (because everyone knew they would never agree to ANYTHING - just like today - nothing has changed).  Nobody liked them then, and nobody likes them now.  Below was the determination of people who tried everything to get the Arabs to compromise.  *So, Israel was allowed to determine it's own destiny, fought the WARS like I mentioned earlier in the thread, won the land. *
> 
> What's really funny is that the Arabs and palestinians actually WANTED to resurrect Resolution.  LOL!  Everyone just laughed at them because they are SO ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> Got links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's in the post you quoted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't see the highlighted text
> 
> "*So, Israel was allowed to determine it's own destiny, fought the WARS like I mentioned earlier in the thread, won the land. "*
> 
> in your link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's wrong with what he said ? It's completely true. You should know this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then there should be no problem to provide a link.
Click to expand...


What's the point of providing a link for you? You're till going to deny it and claim you're right.

But here you go ( I cannot believe you didn't know this):

1948 Arab Israeli War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


Territorial
changesIsrael keeps area allotted to it byPartition Plan, *captures 50% of area allotted to Arab state*
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no such thing as "Palestinians" before this conflict came to be.  There were only the occasional nomads passing through the area back then.  It was not inhabitable.  The Israelis MADE Israel/Gaza what it is today.
> 
> The Truth about the Palestinian People
> 
> The 1948 Israeli War of Independence was between the neighboring Arab countries and the newly formed state of Israel. The Arab countries did not send troops to help the people that are today known as _"Palestinians"_ but rather they sent troops to drive the Jews into the sea. Most of the _"Palestinian Arabs"_ fled to avoid the fighting. Remember, in 1948 they were not referred to as _"Palestinians"_. This name was was created by the Soviet disinformation masters in 1964 when they created the _Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO)_. The term_"Palestinian People"_ as a description of Arabs in Palestine appeared for the first time in the preamble of the 1964 PLO Charter, drafted in Moscow. The Charter was affirmed by the first 422 members of the Palestinian National Council, handpicked by the KGB. This term was formally used by newspapers around the world after 1967.
> 
> United Nations Resolution 181 recommended a partition of the territory from the British Mandate for Palestine into two states - one for Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. But the rejection of partition by the Arabs left in place as the legally operative Mandate for Palestine, the 1924 Anglo-American Convention, and Article 80 of the United Nations Charter. All of the Arab countries objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against its creation. This was Israel's War of Independence in 1948. Despite their superior numbers, the Arab countries lost the war and the Palestinian state never materialized because of this loss. In the war that was waged, the territory allotted to be the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was divided between Israel and Jordan. The _"Palestinian Arabs"_ were rejected by every single Arab country, with the exception of the small percentage that ended up in refugee camps in Jordan where they remain to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Multiple people have posted repeated links to historical data indicating that area was by no means inhabited by only "occasional nomads" but had a significant permanent population that had been there for centuries.  They myth that it was largely "uninhabited" other than "occassional nomads" is just that, a myth that has been thoroughly debunked.
> 
> Look at the source you are using and what it has to say about itself:
> 
> 
> 
> _Target Of Opportunity_
> _This website is a list and record of people that betray and endanger America by their Seditious, Treasonous, and/or Terrorist activities. Operating under the false illusion of Peaceful and Non-Violent activism, their methods are anything but Peaceful and Non-Violent. These people present a serious threat to all Americans. Each and every one of them should be considered a_
> _TARGET OF OPPORTUNITY_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the heck kind of site is that and why should anything it says be taken seriously?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is not the only source.  Multiple, multiple sources confirm the same data.  I've posted at LEAST 3 other links here that give the same data.  *There was NO Palestine*.  It is *a made-up place*.  It did not exist before the creation of Israel.  *It WAS a mostly uninhabitable territory owned* by Arab kings which was taken over by the British and mandated to become half a Jewish state and half an Arab state by the UN.  The Arabs would not accept that because of their BIGOTRY, and they tried to attack the Israelis, but the Israelis fought back and won, AND they won the land that you call "palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Always been team Israel's ground rules that Palestine was never a nation just an undefined area in the M.E.
> 
> It was a population in constant flux with highs and lows throughout history but it never reached it occupational density of pre roman times after the diaspora. Even the arab muslims shunned the land because it was too harsh and not easily tamed.
> 
> The people who inhabited the region did exist, but arab muslims did not for 700 years after the diaspora. Then after holding control of a small part they were beaten and expelled by the Crusaders.
> 
> The census is correct but I wonder how many of those muslims were arab and how many were Turkish, Egyptian or Iranian  all non arab muslims . I also wonder how many people were refused the right to fill in the census forms, or duplicated the forms. This happened in the Palestinian territories only a short time ago so that UNWRA could get more money for the terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A load of bullshit as usual.
> 
> Palestinians, people of the Roman provinces of Palestina have been of many religions ranging from those that worshiped the Roman religions, Judaism, Christianity and most recently Islam.  They are the same people whatever the religion or language they speak.
> 
> In fact, Palestine has always been one of the most fertile of the Middle East and there were few areas not being cultivated in the late 1800s, as confirmed by Ahad Ha'am after one of his visits to the area in the late 1800s:
> 
> "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."
> 
> David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> As far as the demographic make up prior to the 1850s and after we have confirmation of that to via the Mandatory's Interim Report of 1921, which confirms that there were but a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850 and that the Muslims made up four fifths of the population in 1921.and that they were not Arabs (only Bedouins are pure Arabians), but of mixed race, which is what Palestinians have always been:
> 
> "Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.....  Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews"
> 
> . - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
Click to expand...




From that same report we see this


*Length of Recidence in Palestine*
(p 87 & p 98)The pre-war population accounts for 9,473 persons, which is slightly less than one-third of the present population, whereas the rest are post-war immigrants. Some 10.000 persons settled since 1924, since the so called middle-class immigration.

Length of residence in YearsMenWomenChildrenTotal %1150411181746436814,22240620201575600119,6313119131133335711,5469555672019716,4568245451316495,4685640339016495,4768227737913584,38139452614451,5939102002490,810-1323721889313484,414-2018821630216372812,121-29864800-16645,4Over 30836930-17665,8Unspecified3362813509673,2Total124699655837630500100 %
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]

Whether there was significant Arab immigration into Palestine after the beginning of Jewish settlement there in the late 19th century has become a matter of some controversy. According to Martin Gilbert, 50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".[47] The Arab population of Palestine doubled during the mandatory period from 670 000 in 1922 to over 1.2 million in 1948. The estimates on the scope of Arab immigration to Palestine during this period range from insignificant numbers to almost 300 000.[_citation needed_] According to Itzhak Galnoor, although most of Arab population increase came from natural increase, the Arab immigration to Palestine was not insignificant. Based on his estimates approximately 100 000 Arabs immigrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1948.[48]

The 1931 census of Palestine considered the question of illegal immigration since the previous census in 1922.[55] It estimated that unrecorded immigration during that period may have amounted to 9,000 Jews and 4,000 Arabs.[55] It also gave the proportion of persons living in Palestine in 1931 who were born outside Palestine: Muslims, 2%; Christians, 20%; Jews, 58%
In a 1974 study, Bachi proposed an average of 900 per year for the number of Muslims who were detected as illegal immigrants but not deported.[56] He noted the impossibility of estimating illegal immigration that was undetected, or the fraction of those persons who eventually departed.[56] He suggested, though qualifying it as a "mere guess", that the unexplained increase in the Muslim population between 1922 and 1931 was due to a combination of unrecorded immigration (using the 1931 census report estimate) and undercounting in the 1922 census
Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## Phoenall

docmauser1 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is my bullshit spray? The UN was under the COMPLETE CONTROL of the WESTERN POWERS at the time!
> 
> 
> 
> Guess, it's bullshit spray thing in action! Awesome!
Click to expand...




 Is that why the arab nations forced UN res 181 to be made then, knowing that they would deny it and want all the land.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

Nothing is ever as simple as you present it.  It is a Arab Palestinian imperative that they downplay or disavow the Partition Plan; otherwise they loose a great deal of their validity in the armed struggle stance they have taken.



P F Tinmore said:


> That is the Propaganda version. We have all heard the story a gazillion times.
> 
> The UN voted to partition Palestine. The Jews accepted their state. The Arabs rejected their state. Too bad for them.​


​*(COMMENT)*

Yes!



P F Tinmore said:


> There are some problems with this scenario as it leaves out important information.
> 
> The UN did approve the partition of Palestine, however, Resolution 181 was a non binding General Assembly resolution that *recommended* that the Security Council implement the partition.


*(COMMENT)*

General Assembly Resolution 181(II) was --- in fact --- non-binding, as are all resolutions simply pasted by the General Assembly.

However, it was not merely a recommendation.  The recommendation was passed to the General Assembly by the UN Special Commission on Palestine (UNSCOP).  And that recommendation was adopted by the General Assembly.

The instructions in the resolution were that the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC) was to be created and be the action arm for the Security Council in the implementation process.  That did happen.



P F Tinmore said:


> Britain, as the mandate, refused to implement the plan because it was not approved by both sides. The Security Council failed to implement the plan voicing the same concerns. The US withdrew its support and was drafting an alternate plan.


*(COMMENT)*

Without regard to what the US might have done or what position the UK might have taken, the UNPC did act and did set the stage for the creation of the Jewish State of Israel.



			
				PALESTINE COMMISSION ADJOURNS SINE DIE said:
			
		

> During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. *In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented.*"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Section B. STEPS PREPARATORY TO INDEPENDENCE  General Assembly Resolution 181(II) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14. The Commission shall be guided in its activities by the recommendations of the General Assembly and by such instructions as the Security Council may consider necessary to issue.
> 
> *The measures taken by the Commission, within the recommendations of the General Assembly, shall become immediately effective unless the Commission has previously received contrary instructions from the Security Council.*
> 
> The Commission shall render periodic monthly progress reports, or more frequently if desirable, to the Security Council.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ A/RES/181(II) 29 November 1947
> 
> 
> 
> _*SOURCE:  *_PAL/169 17 May 1948
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> Resolution 181 was not implemented. No states were authorized or created. The land allotted for the Jewish state was never transferred.


*(COMMENT)*

No matter how you frame it, the Resolution was "implemented." and it was acknowledged.  There is no such thing as a transfer of land or property in the establishment of sovereignty.  This is a fictitious assumption.  Sovereignty is a right and evidenced by an overt act on the part of the people exercising that right.  It is not, as you suggest, a real estate venture involving deeds and transfers.

The implementation was a reality.  A war was fought over it.  Armistice lines drawn, treaties concluded, and a state that everyone can point to today, was created; economically prosperous, thriving, and one that can stand alone --- on its own.



P F Tinmore said:


> Resolution 181 didn't happen.


*(COMMENT)*

I recommend you take your blinders off.



			
				Letter dated 25 March 1999 from the Permanent Observer of Palestine to the United Nations addressed to the Secretary-General[U said:
			
		

> ][/U]For the Palestinian side, and since the strategic decision to forge a peace on the basis of coexistence, resolution 181 (II) has become acceptable. The resolution provides the legal basis for the existence of both the Jewish and the Arab States in Mandated Palestine. According to the resolution, Jerusalem should become a _corpus separatum_, which the Palestinian side is willing to take into consideration and to reconcile with the Palestinian position that East Jerusalem is part of the Palestinian territory and the capital of the Palestinian State. *The Palestinian side adheres to international legitimacy and respects General Assembly resolution 181 (II),* as well as Security Council resolution 242 (1967), the implementation of which is the aim of the current Middle East peace process.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT Palestinian Declaration of Independence said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Despite the historical injustice done to the Palestinian Arab people in its displacement and in being deprived of the right to self-determination following the adoption of *General Assembly resolution 181 (II) of 1947, which partitioned Palestine into an Arab and a Jewish State, that resolution nevertheless continues to attach conditions to international legitimacy* that guarantee the Palestinian Arab people the right to sovereignty and national independence.
> 
> ----     ----     ----
> 
> By virtue of the natural, historical and legal right of the Palestinian Arab people to its homeland, Palestine, and of the sacrifices of its succeeding generations in defence of the freedom and independence of that homeland,
> 
> Pursuant to the resolutions of the Arab Summit Conferences and *on the basis of the international legitimacy embodied in the resolutions of the United Nations since 1947*, and
> 
> Through the exercise by the Palestinian Arab people of its right to self-determination, political independence and sovereignty over its territory:
> 
> The Palestine National Council hereby declares, in the Name of God and on behalf of the Palestinian Arab people, the establishment of the State of Palestine in the land of Palestine with its capital at Jerusalem.
> _*SOURCE:*_ A/43/827  S/20278  18 November 1988
> 
> 
> 
> _*SOURCE: *_ A/53/879  S/1999/334  25 March 1999
Click to expand...


As recent as December 2012, the Resolution was remembered by the UN in the *6*7/19. Status of Palestine in the United Nations, which --- _recalling_ its resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947, _decided_ to accord to Palestine non-member observer State status in the United Nations.

You can claim, all you want, that the Resolution didn't happen, doesn't exist, is non-binding, has no impact, was never implemented --- all you want.  The fact of the matter is --- in reality --- those that are not irreparably harmed and blinded by the by the need to continually justify Jihad and violence, can plainly see that it did exist, it had both documentary form, deed and action behind it.  It was used by both the Jewish and the Palestinian to make legitimate their states.  It is use still in contemporary times to advance the cause of Palestinian recognition.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

Once more.



P F Tinmore said:


> Where does it say that resolution 181 was implemented?


*(ANSWER)*



			
				The text of the General Assembly resolution adopted last Friday night as it refers to the Commission reads: said:
			
		

> "The General Assembly,
> 
> "Having adopted a resolution providing for the appointment of a United Nations Mediator in Palestine, which relieves the United Nations Palestine Commission from the further exercise of its responsibilities,
> 
> "Resolves to express its full appreciation for the work performed by the Palestine Commission in pursuance of its mandate from the General Assembly.
> During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. *In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
> 
> SOURCE:  *PAL/169 17 May 1948



v/r
R


----------



## docmauser1

pbel said:


> The Ethnic Cleansers Rule...


A marketing ploy to boost sales.


----------



## docmauser1

Coyote said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Both sides are stuck in that same rut. Have you forgotten Israel's many pre-conditions over the years?
> 
> 
> 
> What are they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's become almost normal for Palestinians and Israelis who support peace to find themselves at the same old roadblock, going nowhere fast. The only thing moving are the extremists, who continue to pave the way to the mutual destruction of both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Laughable, which is, of course, acceptable from a comedian. The little problem is that, how many palistanian "supporters of peace" are there? Five, ten, twenty of them? Israeli leftists used to gather tens of thousands of peaceniks on the Rabin's square in Tel Aviv. How many palistanian "peaceniks" gathered in Ramallah? Nil will be about right, of course. Now the majority of israeli peaceniks are gone, because they understood that, whatever the place one kisses a palistanian on, it's always an *ass*.


Coyote said:


> Israeli and Palestinian leaders refuse to talk about the steps necessary to make peace. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu *has imposed several pre-conditions for peace talks* to resume. *They include the demand for a one-sided end to violence*: Palestinians must prevent their extremists from committing acts of violence, but Israel can continue to not only attack Palestinian areas in the Gaza Strip with missiles, but they can also target Palestinians in the West Bank.
Click to expand...

Same old general palistanian humiliational-occupational drivel, of course. They should get a life and a job, and Hananiya ahould stick to comedy.
The words of Gladden Schrock describe palistanians perfecto:
"*I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.*"


----------



## ChrisL

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it say that resolution 181 was implemented?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here, when it was determined that Israel's statehood should not be dependent upon agreement by the Arabs (because everyone knew they would never agree to ANYTHING - just like today - nothing has changed).  Nobody liked them then, and nobody likes them now.  Below was the determination of people who tried everything to get the Arabs to compromise.  *So, Israel was allowed to determine it's own destiny, fought the WARS like I mentioned earlier in the thread, won the land. *
> 
> What's really funny is that the Arabs and palestinians actually WANTED to resurrect Resolution.  LOL!  Everyone just laughed at them because they are SO ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “The coming into existence of Israel does not depend legally upon the Resolution.
> The right of a State to exist flows from its factual existence-especially when that
> existence is prolonged shows every sign of continuance and is recognised by the
> generality of nations.”12
> Reviewing Lauterpacht‟s arguments, Professor Stone, a distinguished authority
> on the Law of Nations, added that Israel‟s “legitimacy” or the “legal foundation”
> for its birth does not reside with the United Nations‟ Partition Plan, which as a
> consequence of Arab actions became a dead issue. Professor Stone concluded:
> “The State of Israel is thus not legally derived from the partition plan, but rests
> (as do most other states in the world) on assertion of independence by its people
> and government, on the vindication of that independence by arms against assault
> by other states, and on the establishment of orderly government within territory
> under its stable control.”13
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Got links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's in the post you quoted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't see the highlighted text
> 
> "*So, Israel was allowed to determine it's own destiny, fought the WARS like I mentioned earlier in the thread, won the land. "*
> 
> in your link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's wrong with what he said ? It's completely true. You should know this
Click to expand...


It's SHE.  You should REALLY check the gender of a person (by clicking their profile) before you refer to them as a "he" or as a "she."  

Just because a person is intelligent and good at debating does not mean SHE is a HE!!!    It's like you guys assume all the posters here are men!!!


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> So, ethnic cleansing is your solution. Why not genocide?


An international effort on humanitarian relocation of palistanians should've taken place yesterday, of course.


----------



## Taz

The world is sick of Muslims attacking everybody. That's what the world is sick of.


----------



## pbel

Taz said:


> The world is sick of Muslims attacking everybody. That's what the world is sick of.


The Western Powers in their determination to Control ME Oil, politically and forcibly allowed
Zionism to invade Palestine to create Israel as a client state, arming it and turned a blind eye to its atrocities...

That exploitation has led to a populist supported Arab Spring which is growing daily...Even ISIS is a direct result of this de-facto Western Colonialism...

America needs to break all links to the ME...We are now self-sufficient in Oil...


----------



## Coyote

docmauser1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Both sides are stuck in that same rut. Have you forgotten Israel's many pre-conditions over the years?
> 
> 
> 
> What are they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's become almost normal for Palestinians and Israelis who support peace to find themselves at the same old roadblock, going nowhere fast. The only thing moving are the extremists, who continue to pave the way to the mutual destruction of both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Laughable, which is, of course, acceptable from a comedian. The little problem is that, how many palistanian "supporters of peace" are there? Five, ten, twenty of them? Israeli leftists used to gather tens of thousands of peaceniks on the Rabin's square in Tel Aviv. How many palistanian "peaceniks" gathered in Ramallah? Nil will be about right, of course. Now the majority of israeli peaceniks are gone, because they understood that, whatever the place one kisses a palistanian on, it's always an *ass*.
Click to expand...



And this spew has what to do with the false claim by some that Israel had no pre-conditions?



> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli and Palestinian leaders refuse to talk about the steps necessary to make peace. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu *has imposed several pre-conditions for peace talks* to resume. *They include the demand for a one-sided end to violence*: Palestinians must prevent their extremists from committing acts of violence, but Israel can continue to not only attack Palestinian areas in the Gaza Strip with missiles, but they can also target Palestinians in the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Same old general palistanian humiliational-occupational drivel, of course. They should get a life and a job, and Hananiya ahould stick to comedy.
> The words of Gladden Schrock describe palistanians perfecto:
> "*I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.*"
Click to expand...


Again.  What does this have to do with the false claim that Israel had no preconditions?


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Multiple people have posted repeated links to historical data indicating that area was by no means inhabited by only "occasional nomads" but had a significant permanent population that had been there for centuries.  They myth that it was largely "uninhabited" other than "occassional nomads" is just that, a myth that has been thoroughly debunked.
> 
> Look at the source you are using and what it has to say about itself:
> What the heck kind of site is that and why should anything it says be taken seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is not the only source.  Multiple, multiple sources confirm the same data.  I've posted at LEAST 3 other links here that give the same data.  *There was NO Palestine*.  It is *a made-up place*.  It did not exist before the creation of Israel.  *It WAS a mostly uninhabitable territory owned* by Arab kings which was taken over by the British and mandated to become half a Jewish state and half an Arab state by the UN.  The Arabs would not accept that because of their BIGOTRY, and they tried to attack the Israelis, but the Israelis fought back and won, AND they won the land that you call "palestine."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Always been team Israel's ground rules that Palestine was never a nation just an undefined area in the M.E.
> 
> It was a population in constant flux with highs and lows throughout history but it never reached it occupational density of pre roman times after the diaspora. Even the arab muslims shunned the land because it was too harsh and not easily tamed.
> 
> The people who inhabited the region did exist, but arab muslims did not for 700 years after the diaspora. Then after holding control of a small part they were beaten and expelled by the Crusaders.
> 
> The census is correct but I wonder how many of those muslims were arab and how many were Turkish, Egyptian or Iranian  all non arab muslims . I also wonder how many people were refused the right to fill in the census forms, or duplicated the forms. This happened in the Palestinian territories only a short time ago so that UNWRA could get more money for the terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A load of bullshit as usual.
> 
> Palestinians, people of the Roman provinces of Palestina have been of many religions ranging from those that worshiped the Roman religions, Judaism, Christianity and most recently Islam.  They are the same people whatever the religion or language they speak.
> 
> In fact, Palestine has always been one of the most fertile of the Middle East and there were few areas not being cultivated in the late 1800s, as confirmed by Ahad Ha'am after one of his visits to the area in the late 1800s:
> 
> "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."
> 
> David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> As far as the demographic make up prior to the 1850s and after we have confirmation of that to via the Mandatory's Interim Report of 1921, which confirms that there were but a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850 and that the Muslims made up four fifths of the population in 1921.and that they were not Arabs (only Bedouins are pure Arabians), but of mixed race, which is what Palestinians have always been:
> 
> "Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.....  Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews"
> 
> . - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From that same report we see this
> 
> 
> *Length of Recidence in Palestine*
> (p 87 & p 98)The pre-war population accounts for 9,473 persons, which is slightly less than one-third of the present population, whereas the rest are post-war immigrants. Some 10.000 persons settled since 1924, since the so called middle-class immigration.
> 
> Length of residence in YearsMenWomenChildrenTotal %1150411181746436814,22240620201575600119,6313119131133335711,5469555672019716,4568245451316495,4685640339016495,4768227737913584,38139452614451,5939102002490,810-1323721889313484,414-2018821630216372812,121-29864800-16645,4Over 30836930-17665,8Unspecified3362813509673,2Total124699655837630500100 %
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]Whether there was significant Arab immigration into Palestine after the beginning of Jewish settlement there in the late 19th century has become a matter of some controversy. According to Martin Gilbert, 50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".[47] The Arab population of Palestine doubled during the mandatory period from 670 000 in 1922 to over 1.2 million in 1948. The estimates on the scope of Arab immigration to Palestine during this period range from insignificant numbers to almost 300 000.[_citation needed_] According to Itzhak Galnoor, although most of Arab population increase came from natural increase, the Arab immigration to Palestine was not insignificant. Based on his estimates approximately 100 000 Arabs immigrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1948.[48]
> 
> The 1931 census of Palestine considered the question of illegal immigration since the previous census in 1922.[55] It estimated that unrecorded immigration during that period may have amounted to 9,000 Jews and 4,000 Arabs.[55] It also gave the proportion of persons living in Palestine in 1931 who were born outside Palestine: Muslims, 2%; Christians, 20%; Jews, 58%
> In a 1974 study, Bachi proposed an average of 900 per year for the number of Muslims who were detected as illegal immigrants but not deported.[56] He noted the impossibility of estimating illegal immigration that was undetected, or the fraction of those persons who eventually departed.[56] He suggested, though qualifying it as a "mere guess", that the unexplained increase in the Muslim population between 1922 and 1931 was due to a combination of unrecorded immigration (using the 1931 census report estimate) and undercounting in the 1922 census
> Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


Hmmm, Wiki Zionist tainted material as opposed to source documents.  Well done Phoney, you really know how to make a point. Now let's get the facts from the Report of the Mandatory:

As can be seen below in the table included in His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations of 1937, Muslim increase via migration was 25,168 during the period Jewish increase through migration was 245,433. 

"6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--







_All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
of population
Increase by
migration
Natural
increase631,272

281,339

349,933286,770

25,168

261,602302,294

245,433

56,86138,305

10,414

27,8913,903

324

3,579
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937 

You are just making a fool of yourself.  Facts are facts.  Lying or using tainted backup  like you do is easily discovered.


----------



## toastman

ChrisL said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here, when it was determined that Israel's statehood should not be dependent upon agreement by the Arabs (because everyone knew they would never agree to ANYTHING - just like today - nothing has changed).  Nobody liked them then, and nobody likes them now.  Below was the determination of people who tried everything to get the Arabs to compromise.  *So, Israel was allowed to determine it's own destiny, fought the WARS like I mentioned earlier in the thread, won the land. *
> 
> What's really funny is that the Arabs and palestinians actually WANTED to resurrect Resolution.  LOL!  Everyone just laughed at them because they are SO ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> Got links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's in the post you quoted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't see the highlighted text
> 
> "*So, Israel was allowed to determine it's own destiny, fought the WARS like I mentioned earlier in the thread, won the land. "*
> 
> in your link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's wrong with what he said ? It's completely true. You should know this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's SHE.  You should REALLY check the gender of a person (by clicking their profile) before you refer to them as a "he" or as a "she."
> 
> Just because a person is intelligent and good at debating does not mean SHE is a HE!!!    It's like you guys assume all the posters here are men!!!
Click to expand...


Sorry ma'am !


----------



## ChrisL

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is not the only source.  Multiple, multiple sources confirm the same data.  I've posted at LEAST 3 other links here that give the same data.  *There was NO Palestine*.  It is *a made-up place*.  It did not exist before the creation of Israel.  *It WAS a mostly uninhabitable territory owned* by Arab kings which was taken over by the British and mandated to become half a Jewish state and half an Arab state by the UN.  The Arabs would not accept that because of their BIGOTRY, and they tried to attack the Israelis, but the Israelis fought back and won, AND they won the land that you call "palestine."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Always been team Israel's ground rules that Palestine was never a nation just an undefined area in the M.E.
> 
> It was a population in constant flux with highs and lows throughout history but it never reached it occupational density of pre roman times after the diaspora. Even the arab muslims shunned the land because it was too harsh and not easily tamed.
> 
> The people who inhabited the region did exist, but arab muslims did not for 700 years after the diaspora. Then after holding control of a small part they were beaten and expelled by the Crusaders.
> 
> The census is correct but I wonder how many of those muslims were arab and how many were Turkish, Egyptian or Iranian  all non arab muslims . I also wonder how many people were refused the right to fill in the census forms, or duplicated the forms. This happened in the Palestinian territories only a short time ago so that UNWRA could get more money for the terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A load of bullshit as usual.
> 
> Palestinians, people of the Roman provinces of Palestina have been of many religions ranging from those that worshiped the Roman religions, Judaism, Christianity and most recently Islam.  They are the same people whatever the religion or language they speak.
> 
> In fact, Palestine has always been one of the most fertile of the Middle East and there were few areas not being cultivated in the late 1800s, as confirmed by Ahad Ha'am after one of his visits to the area in the late 1800s:
> 
> "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."
> 
> David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> As far as the demographic make up prior to the 1850s and after we have confirmation of that to via the Mandatory's Interim Report of 1921, which confirms that there were but a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850 and that the Muslims made up four fifths of the population in 1921.and that they were not Arabs (only Bedouins are pure Arabians), but of mixed race, which is what Palestinians have always been:
> 
> "Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.....  Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews"
> 
> . - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From that same report we see this
> 
> 
> *Length of Recidence in Palestine*
> (p 87 & p 98)The pre-war population accounts for 9,473 persons, which is slightly less than one-third of the present population, whereas the rest are post-war immigrants. Some 10.000 persons settled since 1924, since the so called middle-class immigration.
> 
> Length of residence in YearsMenWomenChildrenTotal %1150411181746436814,22240620201575600119,6313119131133335711,5469555672019716,4568245451316495,4685640339016495,4768227737913584,38139452614451,5939102002490,810-1323721889313484,414-2018821630216372812,121-29864800-16645,4Over 30836930-17665,8Unspecified3362813509673,2Total124699655837630500100 %
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]Whether there was significant Arab immigration into Palestine after the beginning of Jewish settlement there in the late 19th century has become a matter of some controversy. According to Martin Gilbert, 50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".[47] The Arab population of Palestine doubled during the mandatory period from 670 000 in 1922 to over 1.2 million in 1948. The estimates on the scope of Arab immigration to Palestine during this period range from insignificant numbers to almost 300 000.[_citation needed_] According to Itzhak Galnoor, although most of Arab population increase came from natural increase, the Arab immigration to Palestine was not insignificant. Based on his estimates approximately 100 000 Arabs immigrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1948.[48]
> 
> The 1931 census of Palestine considered the question of illegal immigration since the previous census in 1922.[55] It estimated that unrecorded immigration during that period may have amounted to 9,000 Jews and 4,000 Arabs.[55] It also gave the proportion of persons living in Palestine in 1931 who were born outside Palestine: Muslims, 2%; Christians, 20%; Jews, 58%
> In a 1974 study, Bachi proposed an average of 900 per year for the number of Muslims who were detected as illegal immigrants but not deported.[56] He noted the impossibility of estimating illegal immigration that was undetected, or the fraction of those persons who eventually departed.[56] He suggested, though qualifying it as a "mere guess", that the unexplained increase in the Muslim population between 1922 and 1931 was due to a combination of unrecorded immigration (using the 1931 census report estimate) and undercounting in the 1922 census
> Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmm, Wiki Zionist tainted material as opposed to source documents.  Well done Phoney, you really know how to make a point. Now let's get the facts from the Report of the Mandatory:
> 
> As can be seen below in the table included in His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations of 1937, Muslim increase via migration was 25,168 during the period Jewish increase through migration was 245,433.
> 
> "6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> You are just making a fool of yourself.  Facts are facts.  Lying or using tainted backup  like you do is easily discovered.
Click to expand...


I notice that you and others all get your information from the SAME source, whereas the rest of us have provided MULTIPLE DIFFERENT sources which all agree with us.  Hmm.  That IS interesting.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is not the only source.  Multiple, multiple sources confirm the same data.  I've posted at LEAST 3 other links here that give the same data.  *There was NO Palestine*.  It is *a made-up place*.  It did not exist before the creation of Israel.  *It WAS a mostly uninhabitable territory owned* by Arab kings which was taken over by the British and mandated to become half a Jewish state and half an Arab state by the UN.  The Arabs would not accept that because of their BIGOTRY, and they tried to attack the Israelis, but the Israelis fought back and won, AND they won the land that you call "palestine."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Always been team Israel's ground rules that Palestine was never a nation just an undefined area in the M.E.
> 
> It was a population in constant flux with highs and lows throughout history but it never reached it occupational density of pre roman times after the diaspora. Even the arab muslims shunned the land because it was too harsh and not easily tamed.
> 
> The people who inhabited the region did exist, but arab muslims did not for 700 years after the diaspora. Then after holding control of a small part they were beaten and expelled by the Crusaders.
> 
> The census is correct but I wonder how many of those muslims were arab and how many were Turkish, Egyptian or Iranian  all non arab muslims . I also wonder how many people were refused the right to fill in the census forms, or duplicated the forms. This happened in the Palestinian territories only a short time ago so that UNWRA could get more money for the terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A load of bullshit as usual.
> 
> Palestinians, people of the Roman provinces of Palestina have been of many religions ranging from those that worshiped the Roman religions, Judaism, Christianity and most recently Islam.  They are the same people whatever the religion or language they speak.
> 
> In fact, Palestine has always been one of the most fertile of the Middle East and there were few areas not being cultivated in the late 1800s, as confirmed by Ahad Ha'am after one of his visits to the area in the late 1800s:
> 
> "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."
> 
> David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> As far as the demographic make up prior to the 1850s and after we have confirmation of that to via the Mandatory's Interim Report of 1921, which confirms that there were but a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850 and that the Muslims made up four fifths of the population in 1921.and that they were not Arabs (only Bedouins are pure Arabians), but of mixed race, which is what Palestinians have always been:
> 
> "Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.....  Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews"
> 
> . - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From that same report we see this
> 
> 
> *Length of Recidence in Palestine*
> (p 87 & p 98)The pre-war population accounts for 9,473 persons, which is slightly less than one-third of the present population, whereas the rest are post-war immigrants. Some 10.000 persons settled since 1924, since the so called middle-class immigration.
> 
> Length of residence in YearsMenWomenChildrenTotal %1150411181746436814,22240620201575600119,6313119131133335711,5469555672019716,4568245451316495,4685640339016495,4768227737913584,38139452614451,5939102002490,810-1323721889313484,414-2018821630216372812,121-29864800-16645,4Over 30836930-17665,8Unspecified3362813509673,2Total124699655837630500100 %
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]Whether there was significant Arab immigration into Palestine after the beginning of Jewish settlement there in the late 19th century has become a matter of some controversy. According to Martin Gilbert, 50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".[47] The Arab population of Palestine doubled during the mandatory period from 670 000 in 1922 to over 1.2 million in 1948. The estimates on the scope of Arab immigration to Palestine during this period range from insignificant numbers to almost 300 000.[_citation needed_] According to Itzhak Galnoor, although most of Arab population increase came from natural increase, the Arab immigration to Palestine was not insignificant. Based on his estimates approximately 100 000 Arabs immigrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1948.[48]
> 
> The 1931 census of Palestine considered the question of illegal immigration since the previous census in 1922.[55] It estimated that unrecorded immigration during that period may have amounted to 9,000 Jews and 4,000 Arabs.[55] It also gave the proportion of persons living in Palestine in 1931 who were born outside Palestine: Muslims, 2%; Christians, 20%; Jews, 58%
> In a 1974 study, Bachi proposed an average of 900 per year for the number of Muslims who were detected as illegal immigrants but not deported.[56] He noted the impossibility of estimating illegal immigration that was undetected, or the fraction of those persons who eventually departed.[56] He suggested, though qualifying it as a "mere guess", that the unexplained increase in the Muslim population between 1922 and 1931 was due to a combination of unrecorded immigration (using the 1931 census report estimate) and undercounting in the 1922 census
> Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmm, Wiki Zionist tainted material as opposed to source documents.  Well done Phoney, you really know how to make a point. Now let's get the facts from the Report of the Mandatory:
> 
> As can be seen below in the table included in His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations of 1937, Muslim increase via migration was 25,168 during the period Jewish increase through migration was 245,433.
> 
> "6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> You are just making a fool of yourself.  Facts are facts.  Lying or using tainted backup  like you do is easily discovered.
Click to expand...



Ah, so now wikipedia is a Zionist source hahha. You have a pathetic excuse for everything


----------



## RoccoR

Coyote,  _et al,_

What are the pre-conditions?



Coyote said:


> Again.  What does this have to do with the false claim that Israel had no preconditions?


*(OBSERVATION)*

*Netanyahu Reiterates Israeli Preconditions For “Peace”*





 Monday October 28, 2013 05:42
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 by Saed Bannoura -
[Sunday October 27, 2013] Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, stated that Tel Aviv is seeking peace with the Palestinians, but reiterated Israeli preconditions and demands to recognize Israel as a Jewish State, and drop the internationally guaranteed Right of Return of the Palestinian Refugees.​
*(COMMENT)*

Is there such a thing as an "internationally guaranteed Right of Return of the Palestinian Refugees?"  And if so, what does that guarantee say?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ChrisL

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is not the only source.  Multiple, multiple sources confirm the same data.  I've posted at LEAST 3 other links here that give the same data.  *There was NO Palestine*.  It is *a made-up place*.  It did not exist before the creation of Israel.  *It WAS a mostly uninhabitable territory owned* by Arab kings which was taken over by the British and mandated to become half a Jewish state and half an Arab state by the UN.  The Arabs would not accept that because of their BIGOTRY, and they tried to attack the Israelis, but the Israelis fought back and won, AND they won the land that you call "palestine."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Always been team Israel's ground rules that Palestine was never a nation just an undefined area in the M.E.
> 
> It was a population in constant flux with highs and lows throughout history but it never reached it occupational density of pre roman times after the diaspora. Even the arab muslims shunned the land because it was too harsh and not easily tamed.
> 
> The people who inhabited the region did exist, but arab muslims did not for 700 years after the diaspora. Then after holding control of a small part they were beaten and expelled by the Crusaders.
> 
> The census is correct but I wonder how many of those muslims were arab and how many were Turkish, Egyptian or Iranian  all non arab muslims . I also wonder how many people were refused the right to fill in the census forms, or duplicated the forms. This happened in the Palestinian territories only a short time ago so that UNWRA could get more money for the terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A load of bullshit as usual.
> 
> Palestinians, people of the Roman provinces of Palestina have been of many religions ranging from those that worshiped the Roman religions, Judaism, Christianity and most recently Islam.  They are the same people whatever the religion or language they speak.
> 
> In fact, Palestine has always been one of the most fertile of the Middle East and there were few areas not being cultivated in the late 1800s, as confirmed by Ahad Ha'am after one of his visits to the area in the late 1800s:
> 
> "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."
> 
> David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> As far as the demographic make up prior to the 1850s and after we have confirmation of that to via the Mandatory's Interim Report of 1921, which confirms that there were but a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850 and that the Muslims made up four fifths of the population in 1921.and that they were not Arabs (only Bedouins are pure Arabians), but of mixed race, which is what Palestinians have always been:
> 
> "Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.....  Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews"
> 
> . - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From that same report we see this
> 
> 
> *Length of Recidence in Palestine*
> (p 87 & p 98)The pre-war population accounts for 9,473 persons, which is slightly less than one-third of the present population, whereas the rest are post-war immigrants. Some 10.000 persons settled since 1924, since the so called middle-class immigration.
> 
> Length of residence in YearsMenWomenChildrenTotal %1150411181746436814,22240620201575600119,6313119131133335711,5469555672019716,4568245451316495,4685640339016495,4768227737913584,38139452614451,5939102002490,810-1323721889313484,414-2018821630216372812,121-29864800-16645,4Over 30836930-17665,8Unspecified3362813509673,2Total124699655837630500100 %
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]Whether there was significant Arab immigration into Palestine after the beginning of Jewish settlement there in the late 19th century has become a matter of some controversy. According to Martin Gilbert, 50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".[47] The Arab population of Palestine doubled during the mandatory period from 670 000 in 1922 to over 1.2 million in 1948. The estimates on the scope of Arab immigration to Palestine during this period range from insignificant numbers to almost 300 000.[_citation needed_] According to Itzhak Galnoor, although most of Arab population increase came from natural increase, the Arab immigration to Palestine was not insignificant. Based on his estimates approximately 100 000 Arabs immigrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1948.[48]
> 
> The 1931 census of Palestine considered the question of illegal immigration since the previous census in 1922.[55] It estimated that unrecorded immigration during that period may have amounted to 9,000 Jews and 4,000 Arabs.[55] It also gave the proportion of persons living in Palestine in 1931 who were born outside Palestine: Muslims, 2%; Christians, 20%; Jews, 58%
> In a 1974 study, Bachi proposed an average of 900 per year for the number of Muslims who were detected as illegal immigrants but not deported.[56] He noted the impossibility of estimating illegal immigration that was undetected, or the fraction of those persons who eventually departed.[56] He suggested, though qualifying it as a "mere guess", that the unexplained increase in the Muslim population between 1922 and 1931 was due to a combination of unrecorded immigration (using the 1931 census report estimate) and undercounting in the 1922 census
> Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmm, Wiki Zionist tainted material as opposed to source documents.  Well done Phoney, you really know how to make a point. Now let's get the facts from the Report of the Mandatory:
> 
> As can be seen below in the table included in His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations of 1937, Muslim increase via migration was 25,168 during the period Jewish increase through migration was 245,433.
> 
> "6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> You are just making a fool of yourself.  Facts are facts.  Lying or using tainted backup  like you do is easily discovered.
Click to expand...


In the Wiki article, the little numbers at the end of each phrase are reference numbers, which means the claims are referenced.  They can be EASILY verified as accurate.


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Both sides are stuck in that same rut. Have you forgotten Israel's many pre-conditions over the years?
> 
> 
> 
> What are they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's become almost normal for Palestinians and Israelis who support peace to find themselves at the same old roadblock, going nowhere fast. The only thing moving are the extremists, who continue to pave the way to the mutual destruction of both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Laughable, which is, of course, acceptable from a comedian. The little problem is that, how many palistanian "supporters of peace" are there? Five, ten, twenty of them? Israeli leftists used to gather tens of thousands of peaceniks on the Rabin's square in Tel Aviv. How many palistanian "peaceniks" gathered in Ramallah? Nil will be about right, of course. Now the majority of israeli peaceniks are gone, because they understood that, whatever the place one kisses a palistanian on, it's always an *ass*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And this spew has what to do with the false claim by some that Israel had no pre-conditions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli and Palestinian leaders refuse to talk about the steps necessary to make peace. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu *has imposed several pre-conditions for peace talks* to resume. *They include the demand for a one-sided end to violence*: Palestinians must prevent their extremists from committing acts of violence, but Israel can continue to not only attack Palestinian areas in the Gaza Strip with missiles, but they can also target Palestinians in the West Bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Same old general palistanian humiliational-occupational drivel, of course. They should get a life and a job, and Hananiya ahould stick to comedy.
> The words of Gladden Schrock describe palistanians perfecto:
> "*I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.*"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again.  What does this have to do with the false claim that Israel had no preconditions?
Click to expand...


Do you really consider being recognized as a valid Jewish state and asking not to be attacked as "preconditions?"


----------



## montelatici

ChrisL said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Always been team Israel's ground rules that Palestine was never a nation just an undefined area in the M.E.
> 
> It was a population in constant flux with highs and lows throughout history but it never reached it occupational density of pre roman times after the diaspora. Even the arab muslims shunned the land because it was too harsh and not easily tamed.
> 
> The people who inhabited the region did exist, but arab muslims did not for 700 years after the diaspora. Then after holding control of a small part they were beaten and expelled by the Crusaders.
> 
> The census is correct but I wonder how many of those muslims were arab and how many were Turkish, Egyptian or Iranian  all non arab muslims . I also wonder how many people were refused the right to fill in the census forms, or duplicated the forms. This happened in the Palestinian territories only a short time ago so that UNWRA could get more money for the terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A load of bullshit as usual.
> 
> Palestinians, people of the Roman provinces of Palestina have been of many religions ranging from those that worshiped the Roman religions, Judaism, Christianity and most recently Islam.  They are the same people whatever the religion or language they speak.
> 
> In fact, Palestine has always been one of the most fertile of the Middle East and there were few areas not being cultivated in the late 1800s, as confirmed by Ahad Ha'am after one of his visits to the area in the late 1800s:
> 
> "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."
> 
> David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> As far as the demographic make up prior to the 1850s and after we have confirmation of that to via the Mandatory's Interim Report of 1921, which confirms that there were but a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850 and that the Muslims made up four fifths of the population in 1921.and that they were not Arabs (only Bedouins are pure Arabians), but of mixed race, which is what Palestinians have always been:
> 
> "Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.....  Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews"
> 
> . - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From that same report we see this
> 
> 
> *Length of Recidence in Palestine*
> (p 87 & p 98)The pre-war population accounts for 9,473 persons, which is slightly less than one-third of the present population, whereas the rest are post-war immigrants. Some 10.000 persons settled since 1924, since the so called middle-class immigration.
> 
> Length of residence in YearsMenWomenChildrenTotal %1150411181746436814,22240620201575600119,6313119131133335711,5469555672019716,4568245451316495,4685640339016495,4768227737913584,38139452614451,5939102002490,810-1323721889313484,414-2018821630216372812,121-29864800-16645,4Over 30836930-17665,8Unspecified3362813509673,2Total124699655837630500100 %
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]Whether there was significant Arab immigration into Palestine after the beginning of Jewish settlement there in the late 19th century has become a matter of some controversy. According to Martin Gilbert, 50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".[47] The Arab population of Palestine doubled during the mandatory period from 670 000 in 1922 to over 1.2 million in 1948. The estimates on the scope of Arab immigration to Palestine during this period range from insignificant numbers to almost 300 000.[_citation needed_] According to Itzhak Galnoor, although most of Arab population increase came from natural increase, the Arab immigration to Palestine was not insignificant. Based on his estimates approximately 100 000 Arabs immigrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1948.[48]
> 
> The 1931 census of Palestine considered the question of illegal immigration since the previous census in 1922.[55] It estimated that unrecorded immigration during that period may have amounted to 9,000 Jews and 4,000 Arabs.[55] It also gave the proportion of persons living in Palestine in 1931 who were born outside Palestine: Muslims, 2%; Christians, 20%; Jews, 58%
> In a 1974 study, Bachi proposed an average of 900 per year for the number of Muslims who were detected as illegal immigrants but not deported.[56] He noted the impossibility of estimating illegal immigration that was undetected, or the fraction of those persons who eventually departed.[56] He suggested, though qualifying it as a "mere guess", that the unexplained increase in the Muslim population between 1922 and 1931 was due to a combination of unrecorded immigration (using the 1931 census report estimate) and undercounting in the 1922 census
> Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmm, Wiki Zionist tainted material as opposed to source documents.  Well done Phoney, you really know how to make a point. Now let's get the facts from the Report of the Mandatory:
> 
> As can be seen below in the table included in His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations of 1937, Muslim increase via migration was 25,168 during the period Jewish increase through migration was 245,433.
> 
> "6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> You are just making a fool of yourself.  Facts are facts.  Lying or using tainted backup  like you do is easily discovered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I notice that you and others all get your information from the SAME source, whereas the rest of us have provided MULTIPLE DIFFERENT sources which all agree with us.  Hmm.  That IS interesting.
Click to expand...


No, rather than using sources that are making things up decades after the fact and who have an agenda, I am using official reports of the Mandatory that reported at the time of the report, i.e. 1937 in this case.  It's like believing a political blog today that says that the US census of 1937 is off 100%. You don't understand the difference?


----------



## ChrisL

montelatici said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Always been team Israel's ground rules that Palestine was never a nation just an undefined area in the M.E.
> 
> It was a population in constant flux with highs and lows throughout history but it never reached it occupational density of pre roman times after the diaspora. Even the arab muslims shunned the land because it was too harsh and not easily tamed.
> 
> The people who inhabited the region did exist, but arab muslims did not for 700 years after the diaspora. Then after holding control of a small part they were beaten and expelled by the Crusaders.
> 
> The census is correct but I wonder how many of those muslims were arab and how many were Turkish, Egyptian or Iranian  all non arab muslims . I also wonder how many people were refused the right to fill in the census forms, or duplicated the forms. This happened in the Palestinian territories only a short time ago so that UNWRA could get more money for the terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A load of bullshit as usual.
> 
> Palestinians, people of the Roman provinces of Palestina have been of many religions ranging from those that worshiped the Roman religions, Judaism, Christianity and most recently Islam.  They are the same people whatever the religion or language they speak.
> 
> In fact, Palestine has always been one of the most fertile of the Middle East and there were few areas not being cultivated in the late 1800s, as confirmed by Ahad Ha'am after one of his visits to the area in the late 1800s:
> 
> "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."
> 
> David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> As far as the demographic make up prior to the 1850s and after we have confirmation of that to via the Mandatory's Interim Report of 1921, which confirms that there were but a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850 and that the Muslims made up four fifths of the population in 1921.and that they were not Arabs (only Bedouins are pure Arabians), but of mixed race, which is what Palestinians have always been:
> 
> "Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.....  Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews"
> 
> . - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From that same report we see this
> 
> 
> *Length of Recidence in Palestine*
> (p 87 & p 98)The pre-war population accounts for 9,473 persons, which is slightly less than one-third of the present population, whereas the rest are post-war immigrants. Some 10.000 persons settled since 1924, since the so called middle-class immigration.
> 
> Length of residence in YearsMenWomenChildrenTotal %1150411181746436814,22240620201575600119,6313119131133335711,5469555672019716,4568245451316495,4685640339016495,4768227737913584,38139452614451,5939102002490,810-1323721889313484,414-2018821630216372812,121-29864800-16645,4Over 30836930-17665,8Unspecified3362813509673,2Total124699655837630500100 %
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]Whether there was significant Arab immigration into Palestine after the beginning of Jewish settlement there in the late 19th century has become a matter of some controversy. According to Martin Gilbert, 50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".[47] The Arab population of Palestine doubled during the mandatory period from 670 000 in 1922 to over 1.2 million in 1948. The estimates on the scope of Arab immigration to Palestine during this period range from insignificant numbers to almost 300 000.[_citation needed_] According to Itzhak Galnoor, although most of Arab population increase came from natural increase, the Arab immigration to Palestine was not insignificant. Based on his estimates approximately 100 000 Arabs immigrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1948.[48]
> 
> The 1931 census of Palestine considered the question of illegal immigration since the previous census in 1922.[55] It estimated that unrecorded immigration during that period may have amounted to 9,000 Jews and 4,000 Arabs.[55] It also gave the proportion of persons living in Palestine in 1931 who were born outside Palestine: Muslims, 2%; Christians, 20%; Jews, 58%
> In a 1974 study, Bachi proposed an average of 900 per year for the number of Muslims who were detected as illegal immigrants but not deported.[56] He noted the impossibility of estimating illegal immigration that was undetected, or the fraction of those persons who eventually departed.[56] He suggested, though qualifying it as a "mere guess", that the unexplained increase in the Muslim population between 1922 and 1931 was due to a combination of unrecorded immigration (using the 1931 census report estimate) and undercounting in the 1922 census
> Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmm, Wiki Zionist tainted material as opposed to source documents.  Well done Phoney, you really know how to make a point. Now let's get the facts from the Report of the Mandatory:
> 
> As can be seen below in the table included in His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations of 1937, Muslim increase via migration was 25,168 during the period Jewish increase through migration was 245,433.
> 
> "6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> You are just making a fool of yourself.  Facts are facts.  Lying or using tainted backup  like you do is easily discovered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I notice that you and others all get your information from the SAME source, whereas the rest of us have provided MULTIPLE DIFFERENT sources which all agree with us.  Hmm.  That IS interesting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, rather than using sources that are making things up decades after the fact and who have an agenda, I am using official reports of the Mandatory that reported at the time of the report, i.e. 1937 in this case.  It's like believing a political blog today that says that the US census of 1937 is off 100%. You don't understand the difference?
Click to expand...


It says at the top of the page of your link that it is not a UN document.


----------



## Penelope

RoccoR said:


> Coyote,  _et al,_
> 
> What are the pre-conditions?
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again.  What does this have to do with the false claim that Israel had no preconditions?
> 
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATION)*
> 
> *Netanyahu Reiterates Israeli Preconditions For “Peace”*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monday October 28, 2013 05:42
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by Saed Bannoura -
> [Sunday October 27, 2013] Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, stated that Tel Aviv is seeking peace with the Palestinians, but reiterated Israeli preconditions and demands to recognize Israel as a Jewish State, and drop the internationally guaranteed Right of Return of the Palestinian Refugees.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Is there such a thing as an "internationally guaranteed Right of Return of the Palestinian Refugees?"  And if so, what does that guarantee say?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


In the article you listed he also said:

“We insist that Jerusalem will always be the united capital of Israel, the Palestinians must recognize Israel as the homeland of the Jewish people”, Netanyahu said, *“The Palestinians have no national rights in the state of Israel”.
*
He must be out of his mind, the utter arrogance of the man.


----------



## ChrisL

montelatici said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Always been team Israel's ground rules that Palestine was never a nation just an undefined area in the M.E.
> 
> It was a population in constant flux with highs and lows throughout history but it never reached it occupational density of pre roman times after the diaspora. Even the arab muslims shunned the land because it was too harsh and not easily tamed.
> 
> The people who inhabited the region did exist, but arab muslims did not for 700 years after the diaspora. Then after holding control of a small part they were beaten and expelled by the Crusaders.
> 
> The census is correct but I wonder how many of those muslims were arab and how many were Turkish, Egyptian or Iranian  all non arab muslims . I also wonder how many people were refused the right to fill in the census forms, or duplicated the forms. This happened in the Palestinian territories only a short time ago so that UNWRA could get more money for the terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A load of bullshit as usual.
> 
> Palestinians, people of the Roman provinces of Palestina have been of many religions ranging from those that worshiped the Roman religions, Judaism, Christianity and most recently Islam.  They are the same people whatever the religion or language they speak.
> 
> In fact, Palestine has always been one of the most fertile of the Middle East and there were few areas not being cultivated in the late 1800s, as confirmed by Ahad Ha'am after one of his visits to the area in the late 1800s:
> 
> "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."
> 
> David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> As far as the demographic make up prior to the 1850s and after we have confirmation of that to via the Mandatory's Interim Report of 1921, which confirms that there were but a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850 and that the Muslims made up four fifths of the population in 1921.and that they were not Arabs (only Bedouins are pure Arabians), but of mixed race, which is what Palestinians have always been:
> 
> "Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.....  Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews"
> 
> . - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From that same report we see this
> 
> 
> *Length of Recidence in Palestine*
> (p 87 & p 98)The pre-war population accounts for 9,473 persons, which is slightly less than one-third of the present population, whereas the rest are post-war immigrants. Some 10.000 persons settled since 1924, since the so called middle-class immigration.
> 
> Length of residence in YearsMenWomenChildrenTotal %1150411181746436814,22240620201575600119,6313119131133335711,5469555672019716,4568245451316495,4685640339016495,4768227737913584,38139452614451,5939102002490,810-1323721889313484,414-2018821630216372812,121-29864800-16645,4Over 30836930-17665,8Unspecified3362813509673,2Total124699655837630500100 %
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]Whether there was significant Arab immigration into Palestine after the beginning of Jewish settlement there in the late 19th century has become a matter of some controversy. According to Martin Gilbert, 50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".[47] The Arab population of Palestine doubled during the mandatory period from 670 000 in 1922 to over 1.2 million in 1948. The estimates on the scope of Arab immigration to Palestine during this period range from insignificant numbers to almost 300 000.[_citation needed_] According to Itzhak Galnoor, although most of Arab population increase came from natural increase, the Arab immigration to Palestine was not insignificant. Based on his estimates approximately 100 000 Arabs immigrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1948.[48]
> 
> The 1931 census of Palestine considered the question of illegal immigration since the previous census in 1922.[55] It estimated that unrecorded immigration during that period may have amounted to 9,000 Jews and 4,000 Arabs.[55] It also gave the proportion of persons living in Palestine in 1931 who were born outside Palestine: Muslims, 2%; Christians, 20%; Jews, 58%
> In a 1974 study, Bachi proposed an average of 900 per year for the number of Muslims who were detected as illegal immigrants but not deported.[56] He noted the impossibility of estimating illegal immigration that was undetected, or the fraction of those persons who eventually departed.[56] He suggested, though qualifying it as a "mere guess", that the unexplained increase in the Muslim population between 1922 and 1931 was due to a combination of unrecorded immigration (using the 1931 census report estimate) and undercounting in the 1922 census
> Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmm, Wiki Zionist tainted material as opposed to source documents.  Well done Phoney, you really know how to make a point. Now let's get the facts from the Report of the Mandatory:
> 
> As can be seen below in the table included in His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations of 1937, Muslim increase via migration was 25,168 during the period Jewish increase through migration was 245,433.
> 
> "6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> You are just making a fool of yourself.  Facts are facts.  Lying or using tainted backup  like you do is easily discovered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I notice that you and others all get your information from the SAME source, whereas the rest of us have provided MULTIPLE DIFFERENT sources which all agree with us.  Hmm.  That IS interesting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, rather than using sources that are making things up decades after the fact and who have an agenda, I am using official reports of the Mandatory that reported at the time of the report, i.e. 1937 in this case.  It's like believing a political blog today that says that the US census of 1937 is off 100%. You don't understand the difference?
Click to expand...


Here is another document from your link.  Obviously, the UN and pretty much everyone else except the Arabs had accepted Israel.  They are a country now.  Too bad if you Arabs cannot accept it.  Grow UP!  

A RES 273 III of 11 May 1949


A/RES/273 (III)
11 May 1949
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]*273 (III). Admission of Israel to membership in the United Nations*


_Having received_ the report of the Security Council on the application of *Israel* for membership in the United Nations,1/

_Noting_ that, in the judgment of the Security Council, *Israel* is a peace-loving State and is able and willing to carry out the obligations contained in the Charter,

_Noting_ that the Security Council has recommended to the General Assembly that it admit *Israel* to membership in the United Nations,

_Noting_ furthermore the declaration by the State of *Israel* that it "unreservedly accepts the obligations of the United Nations Charter and undertakes to honour them from the day when it becomes a Member of the United Nations",2/

_Recalling_ its resolutions of 29 November 1947 3/ and 11 December 1948 4/ and taking note of the declarations and explanationsmade by the representative of the Government of *Israel* 5/ before the _ad hoc_ Political Committee in respect of the implementation of the said resolutions,

_The General Assembly,_

_Acting_ in discharge of its functions under Article 4 of the Charter and rule 125 of its rules of procedure,

1. _Decides_ that *Israel* is a peace-loving State which accepts the obligations contained in the Charter and is able and willing to carry out those obligations;

2. _Decides_ to admit *Israel* to membership in the United Nations.


___________________

1/ See document A/818.

2/ See document S/1093.

3/ See Resolutions adopted by the General Assembly during its second session, pages 131-132.

4/ See Resolutions adopted by the General Assemblyduring Part I of its third session, pages 21-25.

5/ See documents A/AC.24/SR.45-48, 50 and 51.


----------



## Hossfly

ChrisL said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> A load of bullshit as usual.
> 
> Palestinians, people of the Roman provinces of Palestina have been of many religions ranging from those that worshiped the Roman religions, Judaism, Christianity and most recently Islam.  They are the same people whatever the religion or language they speak.
> 
> In fact, Palestine has always been one of the most fertile of the Middle East and there were few areas not being cultivated in the late 1800s, as confirmed by Ahad Ha'am after one of his visits to the area in the late 1800s:
> 
> "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."
> 
> David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> As far as the demographic make up prior to the 1850s and after we have confirmation of that to via the Mandatory's Interim Report of 1921, which confirms that there were but a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850 and that the Muslims made up four fifths of the population in 1921.and that they were not Arabs (only Bedouins are pure Arabians), but of mixed race, which is what Palestinians have always been:
> 
> "Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.....  Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews"
> 
> . - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From that same report we see this
> 
> 
> *Length of Recidence in Palestine*
> (p 87 & p 98)The pre-war population accounts for 9,473 persons, which is slightly less than one-third of the present population, whereas the rest are post-war immigrants. Some 10.000 persons settled since 1924, since the so called middle-class immigration.
> 
> Length of residence in YearsMenWomenChildrenTotal %1150411181746436814,22240620201575600119,6313119131133335711,5469555672019716,4568245451316495,4685640339016495,4768227737913584,38139452614451,5939102002490,810-1323721889313484,414-2018821630216372812,121-29864800-16645,4Over 30836930-17665,8Unspecified3362813509673,2Total124699655837630500100 %
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]Whether there was significant Arab immigration into Palestine after the beginning of Jewish settlement there in the late 19th century has become a matter of some controversy. According to Martin Gilbert, 50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".[47] The Arab population of Palestine doubled during the mandatory period from 670 000 in 1922 to over 1.2 million in 1948. The estimates on the scope of Arab immigration to Palestine during this period range from insignificant numbers to almost 300 000.[_citation needed_] According to Itzhak Galnoor, although most of Arab population increase came from natural increase, the Arab immigration to Palestine was not insignificant. Based on his estimates approximately 100 000 Arabs immigrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1948.[48]
> 
> The 1931 census of Palestine considered the question of illegal immigration since the previous census in 1922.[55] It estimated that unrecorded immigration during that period may have amounted to 9,000 Jews and 4,000 Arabs.[55] It also gave the proportion of persons living in Palestine in 1931 who were born outside Palestine: Muslims, 2%; Christians, 20%; Jews, 58%
> In a 1974 study, Bachi proposed an average of 900 per year for the number of Muslims who were detected as illegal immigrants but not deported.[56] He noted the impossibility of estimating illegal immigration that was undetected, or the fraction of those persons who eventually departed.[56] He suggested, though qualifying it as a "mere guess", that the unexplained increase in the Muslim population between 1922 and 1931 was due to a combination of unrecorded immigration (using the 1931 census report estimate) and undercounting in the 1922 census
> Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmm, Wiki Zionist tainted material as opposed to source documents.  Well done Phoney, you really know how to make a point. Now let's get the facts from the Report of the Mandatory:
> 
> As can be seen below in the table included in His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations of 1937, Muslim increase via migration was 25,168 during the period Jewish increase through migration was 245,433.
> 
> "6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> You are just making a fool of yourself.  Facts are facts.  Lying or using tainted backup  like you do is easily discovered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I notice that you and others all get your information from the SAME source, whereas the rest of us have provided MULTIPLE DIFFERENT sources which all agree with us.  Hmm.  That IS interesting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, rather than using sources that are making things up decades after the fact and who have an agenda, I am using official reports of the Mandatory that reported at the time of the report, i.e. 1937 in this case.  It's like believing a political blog today that says that the US census of 1937 is off 100%. You don't understand the difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here is another document from your link.  Obviously, the UN and pretty much everyone else except the Arabs had accepted Israel.  They are a country now.  Too bad if you Arabs cannot accept it.  Grow UP!
> 
> A RES 273 III of 11 May 1949
> 
> 
> A/RES/273 (III)
> 11 May 1949
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]*273 (III). Admission of Israel to membership in the United Nations*
> 
> 
> _Having received_ the report of the Security Council on the application of *Israel* for membership in the United Nations,1/
> 
> _Noting_ that, in the judgment of the Security Council, *Israel* is a peace-loving State and is able and willing to carry out the obligations contained in the Charter,
> 
> _Noting_ that the Security Council has recommended to the General Assembly that it admit *Israel* to membership in the United Nations,
> 
> _Noting_ furthermore the declaration by the State of *Israel* that it "unreservedly accepts the obligations of the United Nations Charter and undertakes to honour them from the day when it becomes a Member of the United Nations",2/
> 
> _Recalling_ its resolutions of 29 November 1947 3/ and 11 December 1948 4/ and taking note of the declarations and explanationsmade by the representative of the Government of *Israel* 5/ before the _ad hoc_ Political Committee in respect of the implementation of the said resolutions,
> 
> _The General Assembly,_
> 
> _Acting_ in discharge of its functions under Article 4 of the Charter and rule 125 of its rules of procedure,
> 
> 1. _Decides_ that *Israel* is a peace-loving State which accepts the obligations contained in the Charter and is able and willing to carry out those obligations;
> 
> 2. _Decides_ to admit *Israel* to membership in the United Nations.
> 
> 
> ___________________
> 
> 1/ See document A/818.
> 
> 2/ See document S/1093.
> 
> 3/ See Resolutions adopted by the General Assembly during its second session, pages 131-132.
> 
> 4/ See Resolutions adopted by the General Assemblyduring Part I of its third session, pages 21-25.
> 
> 5/ See documents A/AC.24/SR.45-48, 50 and 51.
Click to expand...

Tinmore will set you straight about the reason that document is flawed.It'll have something to do about a proposal made in 1923 and accepted by a sheikh in East Bumfuk, Egypt.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Both sides are stuck in that same rut. Have you forgotten Israel's many pre-conditions over the years?
> 
> 
> 
> What are they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's become almost normal for Palestinians and Israelis who support peace to find themselves at the same old roadblock, going nowhere fast. The only thing moving are the extremists, who continue to pave the way to the mutual destruction of both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Laughable, which is, of course, acceptable from a comedian. The little problem is that, how many palistanian "supporters of peace" are there? Five, ten, twenty of them? Israeli leftists used to gather tens of thousands of peaceniks on the Rabin's square in Tel Aviv. How many palistanian "peaceniks" gathered in Ramallah? Nil will be about right, of course. Now the majority of israeli peaceniks are gone, because they understood that, whatever the place one kisses a palistanian on, it's always an *ass*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And this spew has what to do with the false claim by some that Israel had no pre-conditions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli and Palestinian leaders refuse to talk about the steps necessary to make peace. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu *has imposed several pre-conditions for peace talks* to resume. *They include the demand for a one-sided end to violence*: Palestinians must prevent their extremists from committing acts of violence, but Israel can continue to not only attack Palestinian areas in the Gaza Strip with missiles, but they can also target Palestinians in the West Bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Same old general palistanian humiliational-occupational drivel, of course. They should get a life and a job, and Hananiya ahould stick to comedy.
> The words of Gladden Schrock describe palistanians perfecto:
> "*I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.*"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again.  What does this have to do with the false claim that Israel had no preconditions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you really consider being recognized as a valid Jewish state and asking not to be attacked as "preconditions?"
Click to expand...


They ARE pre-conditions.

As are ceasing settlement building.


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Always been team Israel's ground rules that Palestine was never a nation just an undefined area in the M.E.
> 
> It was a population in constant flux with highs and lows throughout history but it never reached it occupational density of pre roman times after the diaspora. Even the arab muslims shunned the land because it was too harsh and not easily tamed.
> 
> The people who inhabited the region did exist, but arab muslims did not for 700 years after the diaspora. Then after holding control of a small part they were beaten and expelled by the Crusaders.
> 
> The census is correct but I wonder how many of those muslims were arab and how many were Turkish, Egyptian or Iranian  all non arab muslims . I also wonder how many people were refused the right to fill in the census forms, or duplicated the forms. This happened in the Palestinian territories only a short time ago so that UNWRA could get more money for the terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A load of bullshit as usual.
> 
> Palestinians, people of the Roman provinces of Palestina have been of many religions ranging from those that worshiped the Roman religions, Judaism, Christianity and most recently Islam.  They are the same people whatever the religion or language they speak.
> 
> In fact, Palestine has always been one of the most fertile of the Middle East and there were few areas not being cultivated in the late 1800s, as confirmed by Ahad Ha'am after one of his visits to the area in the late 1800s:
> 
> "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."
> 
> David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> As far as the demographic make up prior to the 1850s and after we have confirmation of that to via the Mandatory's Interim Report of 1921, which confirms that there were but a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850 and that the Muslims made up four fifths of the population in 1921.and that they were not Arabs (only Bedouins are pure Arabians), but of mixed race, which is what Palestinians have always been:
> 
> "Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.....  Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews"
> 
> . - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From that same report we see this
> 
> 
> *Length of Recidence in Palestine*
> (p 87 & p 98)The pre-war population accounts for 9,473 persons, which is slightly less than one-third of the present population, whereas the rest are post-war immigrants. Some 10.000 persons settled since 1924, since the so called middle-class immigration.
> 
> Length of residence in YearsMenWomenChildrenTotal %1150411181746436814,22240620201575600119,6313119131133335711,5469555672019716,4568245451316495,4685640339016495,4768227737913584,38139452614451,5939102002490,810-1323721889313484,414-2018821630216372812,121-29864800-16645,4Over 30836930-17665,8Unspecified3362813509673,2Total124699655837630500100 %
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]Whether there was significant Arab immigration into Palestine after the beginning of Jewish settlement there in the late 19th century has become a matter of some controversy. According to Martin Gilbert, 50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".[47] The Arab population of Palestine doubled during the mandatory period from 670 000 in 1922 to over 1.2 million in 1948. The estimates on the scope of Arab immigration to Palestine during this period range from insignificant numbers to almost 300 000.[_citation needed_] According to Itzhak Galnoor, although most of Arab population increase came from natural increase, the Arab immigration to Palestine was not insignificant. Based on his estimates approximately 100 000 Arabs immigrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1948.[48]
> 
> The 1931 census of Palestine considered the question of illegal immigration since the previous census in 1922.[55] It estimated that unrecorded immigration during that period may have amounted to 9,000 Jews and 4,000 Arabs.[55] It also gave the proportion of persons living in Palestine in 1931 who were born outside Palestine: Muslims, 2%; Christians, 20%; Jews, 58%
> In a 1974 study, Bachi proposed an average of 900 per year for the number of Muslims who were detected as illegal immigrants but not deported.[56] He noted the impossibility of estimating illegal immigration that was undetected, or the fraction of those persons who eventually departed.[56] He suggested, though qualifying it as a "mere guess", that the unexplained increase in the Muslim population between 1922 and 1931 was due to a combination of unrecorded immigration (using the 1931 census report estimate) and undercounting in the 1922 census
> Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmm, Wiki Zionist tainted material as opposed to source documents.  Well done Phoney, you really know how to make a point. Now let's get the facts from the Report of the Mandatory:
> 
> As can be seen below in the table included in His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations of 1937, Muslim increase via migration was 25,168 during the period Jewish increase through migration was 245,433.
> 
> "6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> You are just making a fool of yourself.  Facts are facts.  Lying or using tainted backup  like you do is easily discovered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so now wikipedia is a Zionist source hahha. You have a pathetic excuse for everything
Click to expand...


You're a glutton for punishment:

" two Israeli groups seeking to gain the upper hand in the online debate have launched a course in "Zionist editing" for Wikipedia, the online reference site.

Yesha Council, representing the Jewish settler movement, and the rightwing Israel Sheli (My I srael) movement, ran their first workshop this week in Jerusalem, teaching participants how to rewrite and revise some of the most hotly disputed pages of the online reference site."

Wikipedia editing courses launched by Zionist groups World news The Guardian

"This example demonstrates how good articles full of useful information are systematically edited to remove material from reputable sources (if it does not suit the Zionist aims) and add information from other, often dubious sources. No matter what the topic, the Israeli version must come first and there are constant problems trying to maintain neutral tone and avoid weasel words."

https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Wikipedia's_Hasbara

"*u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit*



US Dept of Justice IP address blocked after 'vandalism' edits to Wikipediaexcerpt:Wikinews has learned that a United States Department of Justice (DOJ) IP Address has been blocked on Wikipedia after making edits to an article which were considered "vandalism". In two separate instances, the IP address from the DOJ removed information from the Wikipedia article about the organization Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA), regarding an attempt by the organization to secretly gain influence on the site. The IP address has been confirmed by Wikinews to be registered and used by the DOJ located in Washington, D.C."

we saw that... u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit....2013 



Embedded media from this media site is no longer available


"Troll editing on Wikipedia has been linked directly to such quasi-Israeli government entities as the media "watchdog" operation "CAMERA," or Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America." CAMERA, formed in 1982 by a group of Jewish activists in Boston tied to the Israeli government, has been the bane of many a newspaper editor or television news reporter. The group had a vendetta against ABC's Peter Jennings and the formerly rather unbiased National Public Radio for their even-handed Middle East reporting. At least five Wikipedia editors were found to be trolling for CAMERA and they were suspended. However, the rules governing Wikipedia permit many other CAMERA and pro-Israel trolls to operate with impunity.

Outside the CAMERA infrastructure, other Israeli groups also troll Wikipedia. Special Wikipedia editing classes have been sponsored on illegal settlements in the West Bank by the organizations Yesha Council and Israel Sheli. CAMERA's efforts were joined by the Hasbara Foundation (Hasbara is the term used for any Jew around the world who advances the propaganda of Israel). In 2007, the Hasbara Foundation, decrying the presence of unbiased information on Israel on Wikipedia, targeted certain editors' entries. The Hasbara Foundation claimed, "These authors have systematically yet subtly rewritten key passages of thousands of Wikipedia entries to portray Israel in a negative light. You have the opportunity to stop this dangerous trend! If you are interested in joining a team of Wikipedians to make sure Israel is presented fairly and accurately, please contact [the Hasbara Foundation] director."

zionists manipulating wiki - Google Search


----------



## RoccoR

Penelope,  _et al,_

I think you are misinterpreting the meaning behind the statement.



Penelope said:


> [
> 
> In the article you listed he also said:
> 
> “We insist that Jerusalem will always be the united capital of Israel, the Palestinians must recognize Israel as the homeland of the Jewish people”, Netanyahu said, *“The Palestinians have no national rights in the state of Israel”.
> *
> He must be out of his mind, the utter arrogance of the man.


*(COMMENT)*

The meaning is to oppose the idea that the territory of Israel is sovereign, and that the Palestinians have no nationalistic rights to any of the territory now considered Israel.  It is not saying that Palestinians have to rights in Israel.  It is saying that Palestinians have no rights to hold Israel in any nationalistic sense.

This is a direct argument against the theory that Palestinians hold some sovereign right to the territory under the current Policy:

1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures. 

2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim

3. No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; nand it will not be long, God willing.​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## pbel

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Always been team Israel's ground rules that Palestine was never a nation just an undefined area in the M.E.
> 
> It was a population in constant flux with highs and lows throughout history but it never reached it occupational density of pre roman times after the diaspora. Even the arab muslims shunned the land because it was too harsh and not easily tamed.
> 
> The people who inhabited the region did exist, but arab muslims did not for 700 years after the diaspora. Then after holding control of a small part they were beaten and expelled by the Crusaders.
> 
> The census is correct but I wonder how many of those muslims were arab and how many were Turkish, Egyptian or Iranian  all non arab muslims . I also wonder how many people were refused the right to fill in the census forms, or duplicated the forms. This happened in the Palestinian territories only a short time ago so that UNWRA could get more money for the terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A load of bullshit as usual.
> 
> Palestinians, people of the Roman provinces of Palestina have been of many religions ranging from those that worshiped the Roman religions, Judaism, Christianity and most recently Islam.  They are the same people whatever the religion or language they speak.
> 
> In fact, Palestine has always been one of the most fertile of the Middle East and there were few areas not being cultivated in the late 1800s, as confirmed by Ahad Ha'am after one of his visits to the area in the late 1800s:
> 
> "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."
> 
> David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> As far as the demographic make up prior to the 1850s and after we have confirmation of that to via the Mandatory's Interim Report of 1921, which confirms that there were but a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850 and that the Muslims made up four fifths of the population in 1921.and that they were not Arabs (only Bedouins are pure Arabians), but of mixed race, which is what Palestinians have always been:
> 
> "Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.....  Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews"
> 
> . - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From that same report we see this
> 
> 
> *Length of Recidence in Palestine*
> (p 87 & p 98)The pre-war population accounts for 9,473 persons, which is slightly less than one-third of the present population, whereas the rest are post-war immigrants. Some 10.000 persons settled since 1924, since the so called middle-class immigration.
> 
> Length of residence in YearsMenWomenChildrenTotal %1150411181746436814,22240620201575600119,6313119131133335711,5469555672019716,4568245451316495,4685640339016495,4768227737913584,38139452614451,5939102002490,810-1323721889313484,414-2018821630216372812,121-29864800-16645,4Over 30836930-17665,8Unspecified3362813509673,2Total124699655837630500100 %
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]Whether there was significant Arab immigration into Palestine after the beginning of Jewish settlement there in the late 19th century has become a matter of some controversy. According to Martin Gilbert, 50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".[47] The Arab population of Palestine doubled during the mandatory period from 670 000 in 1922 to over 1.2 million in 1948. The estimates on the scope of Arab immigration to Palestine during this period range from insignificant numbers to almost 300 000.[_citation needed_] According to Itzhak Galnoor, although most of Arab population increase came from natural increase, the Arab immigration to Palestine was not insignificant. Based on his estimates approximately 100 000 Arabs immigrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1948.[48]
> 
> The 1931 census of Palestine considered the question of illegal immigration since the previous census in 1922.[55] It estimated that unrecorded immigration during that period may have amounted to 9,000 Jews and 4,000 Arabs.[55] It also gave the proportion of persons living in Palestine in 1931 who were born outside Palestine: Muslims, 2%; Christians, 20%; Jews, 58%
> In a 1974 study, Bachi proposed an average of 900 per year for the number of Muslims who were detected as illegal immigrants but not deported.[56] He noted the impossibility of estimating illegal immigration that was undetected, or the fraction of those persons who eventually departed.[56] He suggested, though qualifying it as a "mere guess", that the unexplained increase in the Muslim population between 1922 and 1931 was due to a combination of unrecorded immigration (using the 1931 census report estimate) and undercounting in the 1922 census
> Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmm, Wiki Zionist tainted material as opposed to source documents.  Well done Phoney, you really know how to make a point. Now let's get the facts from the Report of the Mandatory:
> 
> As can be seen below in the table included in His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations of 1937, Muslim increase via migration was 25,168 during the period Jewish increase through migration was 245,433.
> 
> "6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> You are just making a fool of yourself.  Facts are facts.  Lying or using tainted backup  like you do is easily discovered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so now wikipedia is a Zionist source hahha. You have a pathetic excuse for everything
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a glutton for punishment:
> 
> " two Israeli groups seeking to gain the upper hand in the online debate have launched a course in "Zionist editing" for Wikipedia, the online reference site.
> 
> Yesha Council, representing the Jewish settler movement, and the rightwing Israel Sheli (My I srael) movement, ran their first workshop this week in Jerusalem, teaching participants how to rewrite and revise some of the most hotly disputed pages of the online reference site."
> 
> Wikipedia editing courses launched by Zionist groups World news The Guardian
> 
> "This example demonstrates how good articles full of useful information are systematically edited to remove material from reputable sources (if it does not suit the Zionist aims) and add information from other, often dubious sources. No matter what the topic, the Israeli version must come first and there are constant problems trying to maintain neutral tone and avoid weasel words."
> 
> https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Wikipedia's_Hasbara
> 
> "*u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit*
> 
> 
> 
> US Dept of Justice IP address blocked after 'vandalism' edits to Wikipediaexcerpt:Wikinews has learned that a United States Department of Justice (DOJ) IP Address has been blocked on Wikipedia after making edits to an article which were considered "vandalism". In two separate instances, the IP address from the DOJ removed information from the Wikipedia article about the organization Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA), regarding an attempt by the organization to secretly gain influence on the site. The IP address has been confirmed by Wikinews to be registered and used by the DOJ located in Washington, D.C."
> 
> we saw that... u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit....2013
> 
> 
> 
> Embedded media from this media site is no longer available
> 
> 
> "Troll editing on Wikipedia has been linked directly to such quasi-Israeli government entities as the media "watchdog" operation "CAMERA," or Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America." CAMERA, formed in 1982 by a group of Jewish activists in Boston tied to the Israeli government, has been the bane of many a newspaper editor or television news reporter. The group had a vendetta against ABC's Peter Jennings and the formerly rather unbiased National Public Radio for their even-handed Middle East reporting. At least five Wikipedia editors were found to be trolling for CAMERA and they were suspended. However, the rules governing Wikipedia permit many other CAMERA and pro-Israel trolls to operate with impunity.
> 
> Outside the CAMERA infrastructure, other Israeli groups also troll Wikipedia. Special Wikipedia editing classes have been sponsored on illegal settlements in the West Bank by the organizations Yesha Council and Israel Sheli. CAMERA's efforts were joined by the Hasbara Foundation (Hasbara is the term used for any Jew around the world who advances the propaganda of Israel). In 2007, the Hasbara Foundation, decrying the presence of unbiased information on Israel on Wikipedia, targeted certain editors' entries. The Hasbara Foundation claimed, "These authors have systematically yet subtly rewritten key passages of thousands of Wikipedia entries to portray Israel in a negative light. You have the opportunity to stop this dangerous trend! If you are interested in joining a team of Wikipedians to make sure Israel is presented fairly and accurately, please contact [the Hasbara Foundation] director."
> 
> zionists manipulating wiki - Google Search
Click to expand...

This is what cultural arrogance does...Using their resources to distort the truth...Problem is, like the Emperor's Clothes the people see this distortion in time and rebel against them...


----------



## montelatici

ChrisL said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Always been team Israel's ground rules that Palestine was never a nation just an undefined area in the M.E.
> 
> It was a population in constant flux with highs and lows throughout history but it never reached it occupational density of pre roman times after the diaspora. Even the arab muslims shunned the land because it was too harsh and not easily tamed.
> 
> The people who inhabited the region did exist, but arab muslims did not for 700 years after the diaspora. Then after holding control of a small part they were beaten and expelled by the Crusaders.
> 
> The census is correct but I wonder how many of those muslims were arab and how many were Turkish, Egyptian or Iranian  all non arab muslims . I also wonder how many people were refused the right to fill in the census forms, or duplicated the forms. This happened in the Palestinian territories only a short time ago so that UNWRA could get more money for the terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A load of bullshit as usual.
> 
> Palestinians, people of the Roman provinces of Palestina have been of many religions ranging from those that worshiped the Roman religions, Judaism, Christianity and most recently Islam.  They are the same people whatever the religion or language they speak.
> 
> In fact, Palestine has always been one of the most fertile of the Middle East and there were few areas not being cultivated in the late 1800s, as confirmed by Ahad Ha'am after one of his visits to the area in the late 1800s:
> 
> "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."
> 
> David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> As far as the demographic make up prior to the 1850s and after we have confirmation of that to via the Mandatory's Interim Report of 1921, which confirms that there were but a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850 and that the Muslims made up four fifths of the population in 1921.and that they were not Arabs (only Bedouins are pure Arabians), but of mixed race, which is what Palestinians have always been:
> 
> "Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.....  Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews"
> 
> . - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From that same report we see this
> 
> 
> *Length of Recidence in Palestine*
> (p 87 & p 98)The pre-war population accounts for 9,473 persons, which is slightly less than one-third of the present population, whereas the rest are post-war immigrants. Some 10.000 persons settled since 1924, since the so called middle-class immigration.
> 
> Length of residence in YearsMenWomenChildrenTotal %1150411181746436814,22240620201575600119,6313119131133335711,5469555672019716,4568245451316495,4685640339016495,4768227737913584,38139452614451,5939102002490,810-1323721889313484,414-2018821630216372812,121-29864800-16645,4Over 30836930-17665,8Unspecified3362813509673,2Total124699655837630500100 %
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]Whether there was significant Arab immigration into Palestine after the beginning of Jewish settlement there in the late 19th century has become a matter of some controversy. According to Martin Gilbert, 50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".[47] The Arab population of Palestine doubled during the mandatory period from 670 000 in 1922 to over 1.2 million in 1948. The estimates on the scope of Arab immigration to Palestine during this period range from insignificant numbers to almost 300 000.[_citation needed_] According to Itzhak Galnoor, although most of Arab population increase came from natural increase, the Arab immigration to Palestine was not insignificant. Based on his estimates approximately 100 000 Arabs immigrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1948.[48]
> 
> The 1931 census of Palestine considered the question of illegal immigration since the previous census in 1922.[55] It estimated that unrecorded immigration during that period may have amounted to 9,000 Jews and 4,000 Arabs.[55] It also gave the proportion of persons living in Palestine in 1931 who were born outside Palestine: Muslims, 2%; Christians, 20%; Jews, 58%
> In a 1974 study, Bachi proposed an average of 900 per year for the number of Muslims who were detected as illegal immigrants but not deported.[56] He noted the impossibility of estimating illegal immigration that was undetected, or the fraction of those persons who eventually departed.[56] He suggested, though qualifying it as a "mere guess", that the unexplained increase in the Muslim population between 1922 and 1931 was due to a combination of unrecorded immigration (using the 1931 census report estimate) and undercounting in the 1922 census
> Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmm, Wiki Zionist tainted material as opposed to source documents.  Well done Phoney, you really know how to make a point. Now let's get the facts from the Report of the Mandatory:
> 
> As can be seen below in the table included in His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations of 1937, Muslim increase via migration was 25,168 during the period Jewish increase through migration was 245,433.
> 
> "6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> You are just making a fool of yourself.  Facts are facts.  Lying or using tainted backup  like you do is easily discovered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In the Wiki article, the little numbers at the end of each phrase are reference numbers, which means the claims are referenced.  They can be EASILY verified as accurate.
Click to expand...


The footnotes reference other Zionist propaganda.  This is known by most people.



Embedded media from this media site is no longer available


----------



## Kondor3

The sooner the Palestinians run-up the White Flag of surrender, the sooner the healing can begin.

The Palestinians are the losers in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and, of course, the Losers in a war do not dictate the terms of peace.

That's not arrogance... that's the way the Real World works.


----------



## montelatici

Kondor3 said:


> The sooner the Palestinians run-up the White Flag of surrender, the sooner the healing can begin.
> 
> The Palestinians are the losers in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and, of course, the Losers in a war do not dictate the terms of peace.
> 
> That's not arrogance... that's the way the Real World works.



Not going to happen.  Time is on their side, and they know it. That's the way the real world works, as has been demonstrated in the recent past.  Most recently with Kosovo, but Rhodesia, South Africa, Rhodesia and now even Bolivia have demonstrated.  The indigenous people are back in charge in Bolivia.


----------



## Coyote

RoccoR said:


> Coyote,  _et al,_
> 
> What are the pre-conditions?
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again.  What does this have to do with the false claim that Israel had no preconditions?
> 
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATION)*
> 
> *Netanyahu Reiterates Israeli Preconditions For “Peace”*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monday October 28, 2013 05:42
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by Saed Bannoura -
> [Sunday October 27, 2013] Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, stated that Tel Aviv is seeking peace with the Palestinians, but reiterated Israeli preconditions and demands to recognize Israel as a Jewish State, and drop the internationally guaranteed Right of Return of the Palestinian Refugees.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Is there such a thing as an "internationally guaranteed Right of Return of the Palestinian Refugees?"  And if so, what does that guarantee say?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I don't know if there is a guaranteed right, however, it's not going to happen.
*
But both sides claim pre-conditions.*

Oddly - folks seem to be ok with with Israel claiming pre-conditions (which apparently "aren't preconditions") but not the Palestinians?

Here's the latest I see for pre-conditions to negotiation:

Palestinians and the potential ramifications:  Palestinians set new conditions for peace talks to continue



> The Palestinian Authority has set new conditions for agreeing to extend the peace talks with Israel after April, PA officials in Ramallah said Thursday.
> 
> Two of the new conditions include Israeli recognition of the pre-1967 lines as the future borders of a Palestinian state with east Jerusalem as its capital and the release of 1,200 more Palestinian prisoners, the officials said.
> 
> The Palestinian Authority is now demanding that Israel release three senior terrorists: Marwan Barghouti, Ahmed Sa’adat and Fuad Shobaki.
> 
> The conditions also include a complete cessation of settlement construction, the imposition of PA sovereignty over Area C in the West Bank, a halt to Israeli military operations in PA-controlled territories, and “reunion” permits for some 15,000 Palestinians.
> 
> Still other conditions include reopening the Gaza border crossings, lifting the blockade on the Gaza Strip, and permitting the return of Palestinian terrorists who were deported to the Gaza Strip and Europe after they sought shelter from the IDF in the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem in 2002.



Israel's pre-conditions are also quite difficult - as posted before: Palestinian and Israeli Hope for Peace at Roadblock by Ray Hanania on Creators.com - A Syndicate Of Talent



> Israeli and Palestinian leaders refuse to talk about the steps necessary to make peace. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has imposed several pre-conditions for peace talks to resume. They include the demand for* a one-sided end to violence*: Palestinians must prevent their extremists from committing acts of violence, but Israel can continue to not only attack Palestinian areas in the Gaza Strip with missiles, but they can also target Palestinians in the West Bank.
> 
> But Netanyahu's pre-conditions go way beyond what is acceptable. I call them his "no pre-conditions" pre-conditions. The Israelis insist that Palestinians *accept Israeli confiscations of West Bank land around East Jerusalem and accept the expansion of settlements in the West Bank*, too. Netanyahu has outlined a Jerusalem that remains undivided, merging East and West Jerusalem without any consideration of Palestinian rights in the cities.



Even recognizing Israel, not just as a state but as a Jewish State  or the demand that they go back to pre-1967 borders has a host of unspoken ramifications behind it: Why the Israeli-Palestinian Peace Talks were Set-up to Fail Global Research



> For the Palestinians to recognize Israel as a ‘Jewish State’ would be devastating politically. It would concede that all Jewish people would have a natural right to be in Palestine. *For Palestinians who do live in Palestine, it will be only by permission of the “Jewish State” not as a natural right of the Palestinians who have been in the land for thousands of years*. If the Palestinians were to recognize Israel as a “Jewish State” *then the Palestinians living in Palestine has been illegitimate.*  This is one of the main reasons the Palestinians would not accept the “Jewish State” status of Israel. One other factor that the Israel and the Palestinian Authority will not succeed is because the United Nations recognition of Palestine based on its pre-1967 borders with Israel. *This does not sit well with Israel because it legitimizes the Palestinians territorial integrity*. Historically Palestinians have a right to be in Palestine and exercise their right to establish a sovereign state of their own. It is important to note that Israel as a Jewish State would also jeopardize the rights of all Palestinians who currently live in the Palestinian territories and of the Palestinian refugees who were forcibly expelled from their homes in 1948 after the state of Israel was created under the Balfour Declaration.



I'm not sure if I'm answering your query because I'm not exactly sure what you are asking me?


----------



## Coyote

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Always been team Israel's ground rules that Palestine was never a nation just an undefined area in the M.E.
> 
> It was a population in constant flux with highs and lows throughout history but it never reached it occupational density of pre roman times after the diaspora. Even the arab muslims shunned the land because it was too harsh and not easily tamed.
> 
> The people who inhabited the region did exist, but arab muslims did not for 700 years after the diaspora. Then after holding control of a small part they were beaten and expelled by the Crusaders.
> 
> The census is correct but I wonder how many of those muslims were arab and how many were Turkish, Egyptian or Iranian  all non arab muslims . I also wonder how many people were refused the right to fill in the census forms, or duplicated the forms. This happened in the Palestinian territories only a short time ago so that UNWRA could get more money for the terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A load of bullshit as usual.
> 
> Palestinians, people of the Roman provinces of Palestina have been of many religions ranging from those that worshiped the Roman religions, Judaism, Christianity and most recently Islam.  They are the same people whatever the religion or language they speak.
> 
> In fact, Palestine has always been one of the most fertile of the Middle East and there were few areas not being cultivated in the late 1800s, as confirmed by Ahad Ha'am after one of his visits to the area in the late 1800s:
> 
> "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."
> 
> David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> As far as the demographic make up prior to the 1850s and after we have confirmation of that to via the Mandatory's Interim Report of 1921, which confirms that there were but a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850 and that the Muslims made up four fifths of the population in 1921.and that they were not Arabs (only Bedouins are pure Arabians), but of mixed race, which is what Palestinians have always been:
> 
> "Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.....  Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews"
> 
> . - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From that same report we see this
> 
> 
> *Length of Recidence in Palestine*
> (p 87 & p 98)The pre-war population accounts for 9,473 persons, which is slightly less than one-third of the present population, whereas the rest are post-war immigrants. Some 10.000 persons settled since 1924, since the so called middle-class immigration.
> 
> Length of residence in YearsMenWomenChildrenTotal %1150411181746436814,22240620201575600119,6313119131133335711,5469555672019716,4568245451316495,4685640339016495,4768227737913584,38139452614451,5939102002490,810-1323721889313484,414-2018821630216372812,121-29864800-16645,4Over 30836930-17665,8Unspecified3362813509673,2Total124699655837630500100 %
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]Whether there was significant Arab immigration into Palestine after the beginning of Jewish settlement there in the late 19th century has become a matter of some controversy. According to Martin Gilbert, 50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".[47] The Arab population of Palestine doubled during the mandatory period from 670 000 in 1922 to over 1.2 million in 1948. The estimates on the scope of Arab immigration to Palestine during this period range from insignificant numbers to almost 300 000.[_citation needed_] According to Itzhak Galnoor, although most of Arab population increase came from natural increase, the Arab immigration to Palestine was not insignificant. Based on his estimates approximately 100 000 Arabs immigrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1948.[48]
> 
> The 1931 census of Palestine considered the question of illegal immigration since the previous census in 1922.[55] It estimated that unrecorded immigration during that period may have amounted to 9,000 Jews and 4,000 Arabs.[55] It also gave the proportion of persons living in Palestine in 1931 who were born outside Palestine: Muslims, 2%; Christians, 20%; Jews, 58%
> In a 1974 study, Bachi proposed an average of 900 per year for the number of Muslims who were detected as illegal immigrants but not deported.[56] He noted the impossibility of estimating illegal immigration that was undetected, or the fraction of those persons who eventually departed.[56] He suggested, though qualifying it as a "mere guess", that the unexplained increase in the Muslim population between 1922 and 1931 was due to a combination of unrecorded immigration (using the 1931 census report estimate) and undercounting in the 1922 census
> Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmm, Wiki Zionist tainted material as opposed to source documents.  Well done Phoney, you really know how to make a point. Now let's get the facts from the Report of the Mandatory:
> 
> As can be seen below in the table included in His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations of 1937, Muslim increase via migration was 25,168 during the period Jewish increase through migration was 245,433.
> 
> "6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> You are just making a fool of yourself.  Facts are facts.  Lying or using tainted backup  like you do is easily discovered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so now wikipedia is a Zionist source hahha. You have a pathetic excuse for everything
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a glutton for punishment:
> 
> " two Israeli groups seeking to gain the upper hand in the online debate have launched a course in "Zionist editing" for Wikipedia, the online reference site.
> 
> Yesha Council, representing the Jewish settler movement, and the rightwing Israel Sheli (My I srael) movement, ran their first workshop this week in Jerusalem, teaching participants how to rewrite and revise some of the most hotly disputed pages of the online reference site."
> 
> Wikipedia editing courses launched by Zionist groups World news The Guardian
> 
> "This example demonstrates how good articles full of useful information are systematically edited to remove material from reputable sources (if it does not suit the Zionist aims) and add information from other, often dubious sources. No matter what the topic, the Israeli version must come first and there are constant problems trying to maintain neutral tone and avoid weasel words."
> 
> https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Wikipedia's_Hasbara
> 
> "*u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit*
> 
> 
> 
> US Dept of Justice IP address blocked after 'vandalism' edits to Wikipediaexcerpt:Wikinews has learned that a United States Department of Justice (DOJ) IP Address has been blocked on Wikipedia after making edits to an article which were considered "vandalism". In two separate instances, the IP address from the DOJ removed information from the Wikipedia article about the organization Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA), regarding an attempt by the organization to secretly gain influence on the site. The IP address has been confirmed by Wikinews to be registered and used by the DOJ located in Washington, D.C."
> 
> we saw that... u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit....2013
> 
> 
> 
> Embedded media from this media site is no longer available
> 
> 
> "Troll editing on Wikipedia has been linked directly to such quasi-Israeli government entities as the media "watchdog" operation "CAMERA," or Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America." CAMERA, formed in 1982 by a group of Jewish activists in Boston tied to the Israeli government, has been the bane of many a newspaper editor or television news reporter. The group had a vendetta against ABC's Peter Jennings and the formerly rather unbiased National Public Radio for their even-handed Middle East reporting. At least five Wikipedia editors were found to be trolling for CAMERA and they were suspended. However, the rules governing Wikipedia permit many other CAMERA and pro-Israel trolls to operate with impunity.
> 
> Outside the CAMERA infrastructure, other Israeli groups also troll Wikipedia. Special Wikipedia editing classes have been sponsored on illegal settlements in the West Bank by the organizations Yesha Council and Israel Sheli. CAMERA's efforts were joined by the Hasbara Foundation (Hasbara is the term used for any Jew around the world who advances the propaganda of Israel). In 2007, the Hasbara Foundation, decrying the presence of unbiased information on Israel on Wikipedia, targeted certain editors' entries. The Hasbara Foundation claimed, "These authors have systematically yet subtly rewritten key passages of thousands of Wikipedia entries to portray Israel in a negative light. You have the opportunity to stop this dangerous trend! If you are interested in joining a team of Wikipedians to make sure Israel is presented fairly and accurately, please contact [the Hasbara Foundation] director."
> 
> zionists manipulating wiki - Google Search
Click to expand...


People can complain about wikipedia but all you have to do is go through to the sources and citations and make your own conclusions - unlike many sources - they do require citations.


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sooner the Palestinians run-up the White Flag of surrender, the sooner the healing can begin.
> 
> The Palestinians are the losers in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and, of course, the Losers in a war do not dictate the terms of peace.
> 
> That's not arrogance... that's the way the Real World works.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not going to happen.  Time is on their side, and they know it. That's the way the real world works, as has been demonstrated in the recent past.  Most recently with Kosovo, but Rhodesia, South Africa, Rhodesia and now even Bolivia have demonstrated.  The indigenous people are back in charge in Bolivia.
Click to expand...

Yes.

You keep telling us that Muslim demographics are going to defeat the Jews of Israel.

Please continue to believe that.

It will make the acquisition of your last few remaining scraps of land - and pushing you across the borders into Jordan and Lebanon - so much easier.

The Jews have been waiting for 2000 years to take their homeland back.

Almost done, now.

Johnny-come-lately pissants aren't going to be allowed to prevent it.

Once the Palestinians have been pushed across the borders into Jordan and Lebanon, the Palestinians can play with demographics to their little hearts' content.

You can't stop the Israelis.

Hell, the world at-large would have a hard time stopping them.

Even if it wanted to.

Which it does not.


----------



## Phoenall

ChrisL said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here, when it was determined that Israel's statehood should not be dependent upon agreement by the Arabs (because everyone knew they would never agree to ANYTHING - just like today - nothing has changed).  Nobody liked them then, and nobody likes them now.  Below was the determination of people who tried everything to get the Arabs to compromise.  *So, Israel was allowed to determine it's own destiny, fought the WARS like I mentioned earlier in the thread, won the land. *
> 
> What's really funny is that the Arabs and palestinians actually WANTED to resurrect Resolution.  LOL!  Everyone just laughed at them because they are SO ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> Got links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's in the post you quoted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't see the highlighted text
> 
> "*So, Israel was allowed to determine it's own destiny, fought the WARS like I mentioned earlier in the thread, won the land. "*
> 
> in your link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's wrong with what he said ? It's completely true. You should know this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's SHE.  You should REALLY check the gender of a person (by clicking their profile) before you refer to them as a "he" or as a "she."
> 
> Just because a person is intelligent and good at debating does not mean SHE is a HE!!!    It's like you guys assume all the posters here are men!!!
Click to expand...



*EDIT - posts require content related to the Topic.*


----------



## Phoenall

pbel said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> The world is sick of Muslims attacking everybody. That's what the world is sick of.
> 
> 
> 
> The Western Powers in their determination to Control ME Oil, politically and forcibly allowed
> Zionism to invade Palestine to create Israel as a client state, arming it and turned a blind eye to its atrocities...
> 
> That exploitation has led to a populist supported Arab Spring which is growing daily...Even ISIS is a direct result of this de-facto Western Colonialism...
> 
> America needs to break all links to the ME...We are now self-sufficient in Oil...
Click to expand...




*EDIT - posts require content related to the Topic.*


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Both sides are stuck in that same rut. Have you forgotten Israel's many pre-conditions over the years?
> 
> 
> 
> What are they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's become almost normal for Palestinians and Israelis who support peace to find themselves at the same old roadblock, going nowhere fast. The only thing moving are the extremists, who continue to pave the way to the mutual destruction of both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Laughable, which is, of course, acceptable from a comedian. The little problem is that, how many palistanian "supporters of peace" are there? Five, ten, twenty of them? Israeli leftists used to gather tens of thousands of peaceniks on the Rabin's square in Tel Aviv. How many palistanian "peaceniks" gathered in Ramallah? Nil will be about right, of course. Now the majority of israeli peaceniks are gone, because they understood that, whatever the place one kisses a palistanian on, it's always an *ass*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And this spew has what to do with the false claim by some that Israel had no pre-conditions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli and Palestinian leaders refuse to talk about the steps necessary to make peace. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu *has imposed several pre-conditions for peace talks* to resume. *They include the demand for a one-sided end to violence*: Palestinians must prevent their extremists from committing acts of violence, but Israel can continue to not only attack Palestinian areas in the Gaza Strip with missiles, but they can also target Palestinians in the West Bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Same old general palistanian humiliational-occupational drivel, of course. They should get a life and a job, and Hananiya ahould stick to comedy.
> The words of Gladden Schrock describe palistanians perfecto:
> "*I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.*"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again.  What does this have to do with the false claim that Israel had no preconditions?
Click to expand...




How about detailing these alleged pre conditions that are not enshrined in UN resolutions and the UN charter. Things like stopping all violence, terrorism and belligerence


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Both sides are stuck in that same rut. Have you forgotten Israel's many pre-conditions over the years?
> 
> 
> 
> What are they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's become almost normal for Palestinians and Israelis who support peace to find themselves at the same old roadblock, going nowhere fast. The only thing moving are the extremists, who continue to pave the way to the mutual destruction of both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Laughable, which is, of course, acceptable from a comedian. The little problem is that, how many palistanian "supporters of peace" are there? Five, ten, twenty of them? Israeli leftists used to gather tens of thousands of peaceniks on the Rabin's square in Tel Aviv. How many palistanian "peaceniks" gathered in Ramallah? Nil will be about right, of course. Now the majority of israeli peaceniks are gone, because they understood that, whatever the place one kisses a palistanian on, it's always an *ass*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And this spew has what to do with the false claim by some that Israel had no pre-conditions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli and Palestinian leaders refuse to talk about the steps necessary to make peace. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu *has imposed several pre-conditions for peace talks* to resume. *They include the demand for a one-sided end to violence*: Palestinians must prevent their extremists from committing acts of violence, but Israel can continue to not only attack Palestinian areas in the Gaza Strip with missiles, but they can also target Palestinians in the West Bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Same old general palistanian humiliational-occupational drivel, of course. They should get a life and a job, and Hananiya ahould stick to comedy.
> The words of Gladden Schrock describe palistanians perfecto:
> "*I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.*"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again.  What does this have to do with the false claim that Israel had no preconditions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about detailing these alleged pre conditions that are not enshrined in UN resolutions and the UN charter. Things like stopping all violence, terrorism and belligerence
Click to expand...


They aren't "alleged" pre-conditions.

They are pre-conditions each side as set as a pre-requisite to entering into peace negotiations.

I've already detailed them in a prior post.


----------



## Penelope

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Always been team Israel's ground rules that Palestine was never a nation just an undefined area in the M.E.
> 
> It was a population in constant flux with highs and lows throughout history but it never reached it occupational density of pre roman times after the diaspora. Even the arab muslims shunned the land because it was too harsh and not easily tamed.
> 
> The people who inhabited the region did exist, but arab muslims did not for 700 years after the diaspora. Then after holding control of a small part they were beaten and expelled by the Crusaders.
> 
> The census is correct but I wonder how many of those muslims were arab and how many were Turkish, Egyptian or Iranian  all non arab muslims . I also wonder how many people were refused the right to fill in the census forms, or duplicated the forms. This happened in the Palestinian territories only a short time ago so that UNWRA could get more money for the terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A load of bullshit as usual.
> 
> Palestinians, people of the Roman provinces of Palestina have been of many religions ranging from those that worshiped the Roman religions, Judaism, Christianity and most recently Islam.  They are the same people whatever the religion or language they speak.
> 
> In fact, Palestine has always been one of the most fertile of the Middle East and there were few areas not being cultivated in the late 1800s, as confirmed by Ahad Ha'am after one of his visits to the area in the late 1800s:
> 
> "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."
> 
> David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> As far as the demographic make up prior to the 1850s and after we have confirmation of that to via the Mandatory's Interim Report of 1921, which confirms that there were but a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850 and that the Muslims made up four fifths of the population in 1921.and that they were not Arabs (only Bedouins are pure Arabians), but of mixed race, which is what Palestinians have always been:
> 
> "Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.....  Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews"
> 
> . - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From that same report we see this
> 
> 
> *Length of Recidence in Palestine*
> (p 87 & p 98)The pre-war population accounts for 9,473 persons, which is slightly less than one-third of the present population, whereas the rest are post-war immigrants. Some 10.000 persons settled since 1924, since the so called middle-class immigration.
> 
> Length of residence in YearsMenWomenChildrenTotal %1150411181746436814,22240620201575600119,6313119131133335711,5469555672019716,4568245451316495,4685640339016495,4768227737913584,38139452614451,5939102002490,810-1323721889313484,414-2018821630216372812,121-29864800-16645,4Over 30836930-17665,8Unspecified3362813509673,2Total124699655837630500100 %
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]Whether there was significant Arab immigration into Palestine after the beginning of Jewish settlement there in the late 19th century has become a matter of some controversy. According to Martin Gilbert, 50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".[47] The Arab population of Palestine doubled during the mandatory period from 670 000 in 1922 to over 1.2 million in 1948. The estimates on the scope of Arab immigration to Palestine during this period range from insignificant numbers to almost 300 000.[_citation needed_] According to Itzhak Galnoor, although most of Arab population increase came from natural increase, the Arab immigration to Palestine was not insignificant. Based on his estimates approximately 100 000 Arabs immigrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1948.[48]
> 
> The 1931 census of Palestine considered the question of illegal immigration since the previous census in 1922.[55] It estimated that unrecorded immigration during that period may have amounted to 9,000 Jews and 4,000 Arabs.[55] It also gave the proportion of persons living in Palestine in 1931 who were born outside Palestine: Muslims, 2%; Christians, 20%; Jews, 58%
> In a 1974 study, Bachi proposed an average of 900 per year for the number of Muslims who were detected as illegal immigrants but not deported.[56] He noted the impossibility of estimating illegal immigration that was undetected, or the fraction of those persons who eventually departed.[56] He suggested, though qualifying it as a "mere guess", that the unexplained increase in the Muslim population between 1922 and 1931 was due to a combination of unrecorded immigration (using the 1931 census report estimate) and undercounting in the 1922 census
> Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmm, Wiki Zionist tainted material as opposed to source documents.  Well done Phoney, you really know how to make a point. Now let's get the facts from the Report of the Mandatory:
> 
> As can be seen below in the table included in His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations of 1937, Muslim increase via migration was 25,168 during the period Jewish increase through migration was 245,433.
> 
> "6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> You are just making a fool of yourself.  Facts are facts.  Lying or using tainted backup  like you do is easily discovered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so now wikipedia is a Zionist source hahha. You have a pathetic excuse for everything
Click to expand...


Give it another 5 years, I begun noticing changes soon after they announced their educational Wiki editing program.  Their newspaper articles are created for the most part as well, with half truths and half propaganda.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is not the only source.  Multiple, multiple sources confirm the same data.  I've posted at LEAST 3 other links here that give the same data.  *There was NO Palestine*.  It is *a made-up place*.  It did not exist before the creation of Israel.  *It WAS a mostly uninhabitable territory owned* by Arab kings which was taken over by the British and mandated to become half a Jewish state and half an Arab state by the UN.  The Arabs would not accept that because of their BIGOTRY, and they tried to attack the Israelis, but the Israelis fought back and won, AND they won the land that you call "palestine."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  There has long been a Palestine - it's a very old designation.  It may not have been a "nation" but it was an identifiable geographic area.
> 
> Again - as supported by links to historical census data from the Ottoman's and Mandate periods it was not mostly uninhabited.  It had a definate permanent population.
> 
> Why do you keep pretending that the people who inhabited the region didn't exist?  That they have no rights to live where they've been living?
> 
> The Mandate's 1922 Census: 1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.[2]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Always been team Israel's ground rules that Palestine was never a nation just an undefined area in the M.E.
> 
> It was a population in constant flux with highs and lows throughout history but it never reached it occupational density of pre roman times after the diaspora. Even the arab muslims shunned the land because it was too harsh and not easily tamed.
> 
> The people who inhabited the region did exist, but arab muslims did not for 700 years after the diaspora. Then after holding control of a small part they were beaten and expelled by the Crusaders.
> 
> The census is correct but I wonder how many of those muslims were arab and how many were Turkish, Egyptian or Iranian  all non arab muslims . I also wonder how many people were refused the right to fill in the census forms, or duplicated the forms. This happened in the Palestinian territories only a short time ago so that UNWRA could get more money for the terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A load of bullshit as usual.
> 
> Palestinians, people of the Roman provinces of Palestina have been of many religions ranging from those that worshiped the Roman religions, Judaism, Christianity and most recently Islam.  They are the same people whatever the religion or language they speak.
> 
> In fact, Palestine has always been one of the most fertile of the Middle East and there were few areas not being cultivated in the late 1800s, as confirmed by Ahad Ha'am after one of his visits to the area in the late 1800s:
> 
> "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."
> 
> David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> As far as the demographic make up prior to the 1850s and after we have confirmation of that to via the Mandatory's Interim Report of 1921, which confirms that there were but a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850 and that the Muslims made up four fifths of the population in 1921.and that they were not Arabs (only Bedouins are pure Arabians), but of mixed race, which is what Palestinians have always been:
> 
> "Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.....  Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews"
> 
> . - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From that same report we see this
> 
> 
> *Length of Recidence in Palestine*
> (p 87 & p 98)The pre-war population accounts for 9,473 persons, which is slightly less than one-third of the present population, whereas the rest are post-war immigrants. Some 10.000 persons settled since 1924, since the so called middle-class immigration.
> 
> Length of residence in YearsMenWomenChildrenTotal %1150411181746436814,22240620201575600119,6313119131133335711,5469555672019716,4568245451316495,4685640339016495,4768227737913584,38139452614451,5939102002490,810-1323721889313484,414-2018821630216372812,121-29864800-16645,4Over 30836930-17665,8Unspecified3362813509673,2Total124699655837630500100 %
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]Whether there was significant Arab immigration into Palestine after the beginning of Jewish settlement there in the late 19th century has become a matter of some controversy. According to Martin Gilbert, 50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".[47] The Arab population of Palestine doubled during the mandatory period from 670 000 in 1922 to over 1.2 million in 1948. The estimates on the scope of Arab immigration to Palestine during this period range from insignificant numbers to almost 300 000.[_citation needed_] According to Itzhak Galnoor, although most of Arab population increase came from natural increase, the Arab immigration to Palestine was not insignificant. Based on his estimates approximately 100 000 Arabs immigrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1948.[48]
> 
> The 1931 census of Palestine considered the question of illegal immigration since the previous census in 1922.[55] It estimated that unrecorded immigration during that period may have amounted to 9,000 Jews and 4,000 Arabs.[55] It also gave the proportion of persons living in Palestine in 1931 who were born outside Palestine: Muslims, 2%; Christians, 20%; Jews, 58%
> In a 1974 study, Bachi proposed an average of 900 per year for the number of Muslims who were detected as illegal immigrants but not deported.[56] He noted the impossibility of estimating illegal immigration that was undetected, or the fraction of those persons who eventually departed.[56] He suggested, though qualifying it as a "mere guess", that the unexplained increase in the Muslim population between 1922 and 1931 was due to a combination of unrecorded immigration (using the 1931 census report estimate) and undercounting in the 1922 census
> Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmm, Wiki Zionist tainted material as opposed to source documents.  Well done Phoney, you really know how to make a point. Now let's get the facts from the Report of the Mandatory:
> 
> As can be seen below in the table included in His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations of 1937, Muslim increase via migration was 25,168 during the period Jewish increase through migration was 245,433.
> 
> "6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> You are just making a fool of yourself.  Facts are facts.  Lying or using tainted backup  like you do is easily discovered.
Click to expand...



It is part and parcel of the INTERIM REPORTS of your link, or didn't you know there was more than 1. After yours was shown to be false the LoN asked for an unbiased report to be done


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> A load of bullshit as usual.
> 
> Palestinians, people of the Roman provinces of Palestina have been of many religions ranging from those that worshiped the Roman religions, Judaism, Christianity and most recently Islam.  They are the same people whatever the religion or language they speak.
> 
> In fact, Palestine has always been one of the most fertile of the Middle East and there were few areas not being cultivated in the late 1800s, as confirmed by Ahad Ha'am after one of his visits to the area in the late 1800s:
> 
> "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."
> 
> David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> As far as the demographic make up prior to the 1850s and after we have confirmation of that to via the Mandatory's Interim Report of 1921, which confirms that there were but a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850 and that the Muslims made up four fifths of the population in 1921.and that they were not Arabs (only Bedouins are pure Arabians), but of mixed race, which is what Palestinians have always been:
> 
> "Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.....  Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews"
> 
> . - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From that same report we see this
> 
> 
> *Length of Recidence in Palestine*
> (p 87 & p 98)The pre-war population accounts for 9,473 persons, which is slightly less than one-third of the present population, whereas the rest are post-war immigrants. Some 10.000 persons settled since 1924, since the so called middle-class immigration.
> 
> Length of residence in YearsMenWomenChildrenTotal %1150411181746436814,22240620201575600119,6313119131133335711,5469555672019716,4568245451316495,4685640339016495,4768227737913584,38139452614451,5939102002490,810-1323721889313484,414-2018821630216372812,121-29864800-16645,4Over 30836930-17665,8Unspecified3362813509673,2Total124699655837630500100 %
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]Whether there was significant Arab immigration into Palestine after the beginning of Jewish settlement there in the late 19th century has become a matter of some controversy. According to Martin Gilbert, 50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".[47] The Arab population of Palestine doubled during the mandatory period from 670 000 in 1922 to over 1.2 million in 1948. The estimates on the scope of Arab immigration to Palestine during this period range from insignificant numbers to almost 300 000.[_citation needed_] According to Itzhak Galnoor, although most of Arab population increase came from natural increase, the Arab immigration to Palestine was not insignificant. Based on his estimates approximately 100 000 Arabs immigrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1948.[48]
> 
> The 1931 census of Palestine considered the question of illegal immigration since the previous census in 1922.[55] It estimated that unrecorded immigration during that period may have amounted to 9,000 Jews and 4,000 Arabs.[55] It also gave the proportion of persons living in Palestine in 1931 who were born outside Palestine: Muslims, 2%; Christians, 20%; Jews, 58%
> In a 1974 study, Bachi proposed an average of 900 per year for the number of Muslims who were detected as illegal immigrants but not deported.[56] He noted the impossibility of estimating illegal immigration that was undetected, or the fraction of those persons who eventually departed.[56] He suggested, though qualifying it as a "mere guess", that the unexplained increase in the Muslim population between 1922 and 1931 was due to a combination of unrecorded immigration (using the 1931 census report estimate) and undercounting in the 1922 census
> Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmm, Wiki Zionist tainted material as opposed to source documents.  Well done Phoney, you really know how to make a point. Now let's get the facts from the Report of the Mandatory:
> 
> As can be seen below in the table included in His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations of 1937, Muslim increase via migration was 25,168 during the period Jewish increase through migration was 245,433.
> 
> "6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> You are just making a fool of yourself.  Facts are facts.  Lying or using tainted backup  like you do is easily discovered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so now wikipedia is a Zionist source hahha. You have a pathetic excuse for everything
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a glutton for punishment:
> 
> " two Israeli groups seeking to gain the upper hand in the online debate have launched a course in "Zionist editing" for Wikipedia, the online reference site.
> 
> Yesha Council, representing the Jewish settler movement, and the rightwing Israel Sheli (My I srael) movement, ran their first workshop this week in Jerusalem, teaching participants how to rewrite and revise some of the most hotly disputed pages of the online reference site."
> 
> Wikipedia editing courses launched by Zionist groups World news The Guardian
> 
> "This example demonstrates how good articles full of useful information are systematically edited to remove material from reputable sources (if it does not suit the Zionist aims) and add information from other, often dubious sources. No matter what the topic, the Israeli version must come first and there are constant problems trying to maintain neutral tone and avoid weasel words."
> 
> https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Wikipedia's_Hasbara
> 
> "*u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit*
> 
> 
> 
> US Dept of Justice IP address blocked after 'vandalism' edits to Wikipediaexcerpt:Wikinews has learned that a United States Department of Justice (DOJ) IP Address has been blocked on Wikipedia after making edits to an article which were considered "vandalism". In two separate instances, the IP address from the DOJ removed information from the Wikipedia article about the organization Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA), regarding an attempt by the organization to secretly gain influence on the site. The IP address has been confirmed by Wikinews to be registered and used by the DOJ located in Washington, D.C."
> 
> we saw that... u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit....2013
> 
> 
> 
> Embedded media from this media site is no longer available
> 
> 
> "Troll editing on Wikipedia has been linked directly to such quasi-Israeli government entities as the media "watchdog" operation "CAMERA," or Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America." CAMERA, formed in 1982 by a group of Jewish activists in Boston tied to the Israeli government, has been the bane of many a newspaper editor or television news reporter. The group had a vendetta against ABC's Peter Jennings and the formerly rather unbiased National Public Radio for their even-handed Middle East reporting. At least five Wikipedia editors were found to be trolling for CAMERA and they were suspended. However, the rules governing Wikipedia permit many other CAMERA and pro-Israel trolls to operate with impunity.
> 
> Outside the CAMERA infrastructure, other Israeli groups also troll Wikipedia. Special Wikipedia editing classes have been sponsored on illegal settlements in the West Bank by the organizations Yesha Council and Israel Sheli. CAMERA's efforts were joined by the Hasbara Foundation (Hasbara is the term used for any Jew around the world who advances the propaganda of Israel). In 2007, the Hasbara Foundation, decrying the presence of unbiased information on Israel on Wikipedia, targeted certain editors' entries. The Hasbara Foundation claimed, "These authors have systematically yet subtly rewritten key passages of thousands of Wikipedia entries to portray Israel in a negative light. You have the opportunity to stop this dangerous trend! If you are interested in joining a team of Wikipedians to make sure Israel is presented fairly and accurately, please contact [the Hasbara Foundation] director."
> 
> zionists manipulating wiki - Google Search
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People can complain about wikipedia but all you have to do is go through to the sources and citations and make your own conclusions - unlike many sources - they do require citations.
Click to expand...




 And it is very easy to find the source of the information of any Wiki article by doing a search on Wiki


----------



## pbel

Kondor3 said:


> The sooner the Palestinians run-up the White Flag of surrender, the sooner the healing can begin.
> 
> The Palestinians are the losers in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and, of course, the Losers in a war do not dictate the terms of peace.
> 
> That's not arrogance... that's the way the Real World works.


They will never surrender or bow to the Israeli boot...

Read the History of all previous Western footholds in this Sea of Islam...Time is their Weapon along with constant pressure and small fires...


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> A load of bullshit as usual.
> 
> Palestinians, people of the Roman provinces of Palestina have been of many religions ranging from those that worshiped the Roman religions, Judaism, Christianity and most recently Islam.  They are the same people whatever the religion or language they speak.
> 
> In fact, Palestine has always been one of the most fertile of the Middle East and there were few areas not being cultivated in the late 1800s, as confirmed by Ahad Ha'am after one of his visits to the area in the late 1800s:
> 
> "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."
> 
> David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> As far as the demographic make up prior to the 1850s and after we have confirmation of that to via the Mandatory's Interim Report of 1921, which confirms that there were but a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850 and that the Muslims made up four fifths of the population in 1921.and that they were not Arabs (only Bedouins are pure Arabians), but of mixed race, which is what Palestinians have always been:
> 
> "Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.....  Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews"
> 
> . - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From that same report we see this
> 
> 
> *Length of Recidence in Palestine*
> (p 87 & p 98)The pre-war population accounts for 9,473 persons, which is slightly less than one-third of the present population, whereas the rest are post-war immigrants. Some 10.000 persons settled since 1924, since the so called middle-class immigration.
> 
> Length of residence in YearsMenWomenChildrenTotal %1150411181746436814,22240620201575600119,6313119131133335711,5469555672019716,4568245451316495,4685640339016495,4768227737913584,38139452614451,5939102002490,810-1323721889313484,414-2018821630216372812,121-29864800-16645,4Over 30836930-17665,8Unspecified3362813509673,2Total124699655837630500100 %
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]Whether there was significant Arab immigration into Palestine after the beginning of Jewish settlement there in the late 19th century has become a matter of some controversy. According to Martin Gilbert, 50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".[47] The Arab population of Palestine doubled during the mandatory period from 670 000 in 1922 to over 1.2 million in 1948. The estimates on the scope of Arab immigration to Palestine during this period range from insignificant numbers to almost 300 000.[_citation needed_] According to Itzhak Galnoor, although most of Arab population increase came from natural increase, the Arab immigration to Palestine was not insignificant. Based on his estimates approximately 100 000 Arabs immigrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1948.[48]
> 
> The 1931 census of Palestine considered the question of illegal immigration since the previous census in 1922.[55] It estimated that unrecorded immigration during that period may have amounted to 9,000 Jews and 4,000 Arabs.[55] It also gave the proportion of persons living in Palestine in 1931 who were born outside Palestine: Muslims, 2%; Christians, 20%; Jews, 58%
> In a 1974 study, Bachi proposed an average of 900 per year for the number of Muslims who were detected as illegal immigrants but not deported.[56] He noted the impossibility of estimating illegal immigration that was undetected, or the fraction of those persons who eventually departed.[56] He suggested, though qualifying it as a "mere guess", that the unexplained increase in the Muslim population between 1922 and 1931 was due to a combination of unrecorded immigration (using the 1931 census report estimate) and undercounting in the 1922 census
> Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmm, Wiki Zionist tainted material as opposed to source documents.  Well done Phoney, you really know how to make a point. Now let's get the facts from the Report of the Mandatory:
> 
> As can be seen below in the table included in His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations of 1937, Muslim increase via migration was 25,168 during the period Jewish increase through migration was 245,433.
> 
> "6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> You are just making a fool of yourself.  Facts are facts.  Lying or using tainted backup  like you do is easily discovered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so now wikipedia is a Zionist source hahha. You have a pathetic excuse for everything
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a glutton for punishment:
> 
> " two Israeli groups seeking to gain the upper hand in the online debate have launched a course in "Zionist editing" for Wikipedia, the online reference site.
> 
> Yesha Council, representing the Jewish settler movement, and the rightwing Israel Sheli (My I srael) movement, ran their first workshop this week in Jerusalem, teaching participants how to rewrite and revise some of the most hotly disputed pages of the online reference site."
> 
> Wikipedia editing courses launched by Zionist groups World news The Guardian
> 
> "This example demonstrates how good articles full of useful information are systematically edited to remove material from reputable sources (if it does not suit the Zionist aims) and add information from other, often dubious sources. No matter what the topic, the Israeli version must come first and there are constant problems trying to maintain neutral tone and avoid weasel words."
> 
> https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Wikipedia's_Hasbara
> 
> "*u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit*
> 
> 
> 
> US Dept of Justice IP address blocked after 'vandalism' edits to Wikipediaexcerpt:Wikinews has learned that a United States Department of Justice (DOJ) IP Address has been blocked on Wikipedia after making edits to an article which were considered "vandalism". In two separate instances, the IP address from the DOJ removed information from the Wikipedia article about the organization Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA), regarding an attempt by the organization to secretly gain influence on the site. The IP address has been confirmed by Wikinews to be registered and used by the DOJ located in Washington, D.C."
> 
> we saw that... u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit....2013
> 
> 
> 
> Embedded media from this media site is no longer available
> 
> 
> "Troll editing on Wikipedia has been linked directly to such quasi-Israeli government entities as the media "watchdog" operation "CAMERA," or Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America." CAMERA, formed in 1982 by a group of Jewish activists in Boston tied to the Israeli government, has been the bane of many a newspaper editor or television news reporter. The group had a vendetta against ABC's Peter Jennings and the formerly rather unbiased National Public Radio for their even-handed Middle East reporting. At least five Wikipedia editors were found to be trolling for CAMERA and they were suspended. However, the rules governing Wikipedia permit many other CAMERA and pro-Israel trolls to operate with impunity.
> 
> Outside the CAMERA infrastructure, other Israeli groups also troll Wikipedia. Special Wikipedia editing classes have been sponsored on illegal settlements in the West Bank by the organizations Yesha Council and Israel Sheli. CAMERA's efforts were joined by the Hasbara Foundation (Hasbara is the term used for any Jew around the world who advances the propaganda of Israel). In 2007, the Hasbara Foundation, decrying the presence of unbiased information on Israel on Wikipedia, targeted certain editors' entries. The Hasbara Foundation claimed, "These authors have systematically yet subtly rewritten key passages of thousands of Wikipedia entries to portray Israel in a negative light. You have the opportunity to stop this dangerous trend! If you are interested in joining a team of Wikipedians to make sure Israel is presented fairly and accurately, please contact [the Hasbara Foundation] director."
> 
> zionists manipulating wiki - Google Search
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People can complain about wikipedia but all you have to do is go through to the sources and citations and make your own conclusions - unlike many sources - they do require citations.
Click to expand...




 And as my wiki article shows it was written by a Palestinian muslim who also wrote many other articles under many different names, What are called "sock puppets"


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Got links?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's in the post you quoted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't see the highlighted text
> 
> "*So, Israel was allowed to determine it's own destiny, fought the WARS like I mentioned earlier in the thread, won the land. "*
> 
> in your link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's wrong with what he said ? It's completely true. You should know this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's SHE.  You should REALLY check the gender of a person (by clicking their profile) before you refer to them as a "he" or as a "she."
> 
> Just because a person is intelligent and good at debating does not mean SHE is a HE!!!    It's like you guys assume all the posters here are men!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very much like team Palestine that thinks only females sit to piss, when in fact muslims do because they don't know were it will go.
Click to expand...


Good Lord


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> From that same report we see this
> 
> 
> *Length of Recidence in Palestine*
> (p 87 & p 98)The pre-war population accounts for 9,473 persons, which is slightly less than one-third of the present population, whereas the rest are post-war immigrants. Some 10.000 persons settled since 1924, since the so called middle-class immigration.
> 
> Length of residence in YearsMenWomenChildrenTotal %1150411181746436814,22240620201575600119,6313119131133335711,5469555672019716,4568245451316495,4685640339016495,4768227737913584,38139452614451,5939102002490,810-1323721889313484,414-2018821630216372812,121-29864800-16645,4Over 30836930-17665,8Unspecified3362813509673,2Total124699655837630500100 %
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]Whether there was significant Arab immigration into Palestine after the beginning of Jewish settlement there in the late 19th century has become a matter of some controversy. According to Martin Gilbert, 50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".[47] The Arab population of Palestine doubled during the mandatory period from 670 000 in 1922 to over 1.2 million in 1948. The estimates on the scope of Arab immigration to Palestine during this period range from insignificant numbers to almost 300 000.[_citation needed_] According to Itzhak Galnoor, although most of Arab population increase came from natural increase, the Arab immigration to Palestine was not insignificant. Based on his estimates approximately 100 000 Arabs immigrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1948.[48]
> 
> The 1931 census of Palestine considered the question of illegal immigration since the previous census in 1922.[55] It estimated that unrecorded immigration during that period may have amounted to 9,000 Jews and 4,000 Arabs.[55] It also gave the proportion of persons living in Palestine in 1931 who were born outside Palestine: Muslims, 2%; Christians, 20%; Jews, 58%
> In a 1974 study, Bachi proposed an average of 900 per year for the number of Muslims who were detected as illegal immigrants but not deported.[56] He noted the impossibility of estimating illegal immigration that was undetected, or the fraction of those persons who eventually departed.[56] He suggested, though qualifying it as a "mere guess", that the unexplained increase in the Muslim population between 1922 and 1931 was due to a combination of unrecorded immigration (using the 1931 census report estimate) and undercounting in the 1922 census
> Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm, Wiki Zionist tainted material as opposed to source documents.  Well done Phoney, you really know how to make a point. Now let's get the facts from the Report of the Mandatory:
> 
> As can be seen below in the table included in His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations of 1937, Muslim increase via migration was 25,168 during the period Jewish increase through migration was 245,433.
> 
> "6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> You are just making a fool of yourself.  Facts are facts.  Lying or using tainted backup  like you do is easily discovered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so now wikipedia is a Zionist source hahha. You have a pathetic excuse for everything
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a glutton for punishment:
> 
> " two Israeli groups seeking to gain the upper hand in the online debate have launched a course in "Zionist editing" for Wikipedia, the online reference site.
> 
> Yesha Council, representing the Jewish settler movement, and the rightwing Israel Sheli (My I srael) movement, ran their first workshop this week in Jerusalem, teaching participants how to rewrite and revise some of the most hotly disputed pages of the online reference site."
> 
> Wikipedia editing courses launched by Zionist groups World news The Guardian
> 
> "This example demonstrates how good articles full of useful information are systematically edited to remove material from reputable sources (if it does not suit the Zionist aims) and add information from other, often dubious sources. No matter what the topic, the Israeli version must come first and there are constant problems trying to maintain neutral tone and avoid weasel words."
> 
> https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Wikipedia's_Hasbara
> 
> "*u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit*
> 
> 
> 
> US Dept of Justice IP address blocked after 'vandalism' edits to Wikipediaexcerpt:Wikinews has learned that a United States Department of Justice (DOJ) IP Address has been blocked on Wikipedia after making edits to an article which were considered "vandalism". In two separate instances, the IP address from the DOJ removed information from the Wikipedia article about the organization Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA), regarding an attempt by the organization to secretly gain influence on the site. The IP address has been confirmed by Wikinews to be registered and used by the DOJ located in Washington, D.C."
> 
> we saw that... u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit....2013
> 
> 
> 
> Embedded media from this media site is no longer available
> 
> 
> "Troll editing on Wikipedia has been linked directly to such quasi-Israeli government entities as the media "watchdog" operation "CAMERA," or Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America." CAMERA, formed in 1982 by a group of Jewish activists in Boston tied to the Israeli government, has been the bane of many a newspaper editor or television news reporter. The group had a vendetta against ABC's Peter Jennings and the formerly rather unbiased National Public Radio for their even-handed Middle East reporting. At least five Wikipedia editors were found to be trolling for CAMERA and they were suspended. However, the rules governing Wikipedia permit many other CAMERA and pro-Israel trolls to operate with impunity.
> 
> Outside the CAMERA infrastructure, other Israeli groups also troll Wikipedia. Special Wikipedia editing classes have been sponsored on illegal settlements in the West Bank by the organizations Yesha Council and Israel Sheli. CAMERA's efforts were joined by the Hasbara Foundation (Hasbara is the term used for any Jew around the world who advances the propaganda of Israel). In 2007, the Hasbara Foundation, decrying the presence of unbiased information on Israel on Wikipedia, targeted certain editors' entries. The Hasbara Foundation claimed, "These authors have systematically yet subtly rewritten key passages of thousands of Wikipedia entries to portray Israel in a negative light. You have the opportunity to stop this dangerous trend! If you are interested in joining a team of Wikipedians to make sure Israel is presented fairly and accurately, please contact [the Hasbara Foundation] director."
> 
> zionists manipulating wiki - Google Search
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People can complain about wikipedia but all you have to do is go through to the sources and citations and make your own conclusions - unlike many sources - they do require citations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And as my wiki article shows it was written by a Palestinian muslim who also wrote many other articles under many different names, What are called "sock puppets"
Click to expand...




Embedded media from this media site is no longer available


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What are they?
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's become almost normal for Palestinians and Israelis who support peace to find themselves at the same old roadblock, going nowhere fast. The only thing moving are the extremists, who continue to pave the way to the mutual destruction of both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Laughable, which is, of course, acceptable from a comedian. The little problem is that, how many palistanian "supporters of peace" are there? Five, ten, twenty of them? Israeli leftists used to gather tens of thousands of peaceniks on the Rabin's square in Tel Aviv. How many palistanian "peaceniks" gathered in Ramallah? Nil will be about right, of course. Now the majority of israeli peaceniks are gone, because they understood that, whatever the place one kisses a palistanian on, it's always an *ass*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And this spew has what to do with the false claim by some that Israel had no pre-conditions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli and Palestinian leaders refuse to talk about the steps necessary to make peace. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu *has imposed several pre-conditions for peace talks* to resume. *They include the demand for a one-sided end to violence*: Palestinians must prevent their extremists from committing acts of violence, but Israel can continue to not only attack Palestinian areas in the Gaza Strip with missiles, but they can also target Palestinians in the West Bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Same old general palistanian humiliational-occupational drivel, of course. They should get a life and a job, and Hananiya ahould stick to comedy.
> The words of Gladden Schrock describe palistanians perfecto:
> "*I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.*"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again.  What does this have to do with the false claim that Israel had no preconditions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about detailing these alleged pre conditions that are not enshrined in UN resolutions and the UN charter. Things like stopping all violence, terrorism and belligerence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They aren't "alleged" pre-conditions.
> 
> They are pre-conditions each side as set as a pre-requisite to entering into peace negotiations.
> 
> I've already detailed them in a prior post.
Click to expand...


 Then list them and not just link to an ambiguous site

 The Palestinians always demand the following before they will talk about anything with Israel

 Return to pre 1967 borders ( meaning the partition plan borders that are indefensible )

 Right of return for every Palestinian who claims they lived in Israel and reparations for their losses.

 Withdrawal of all post Zionist Jews from all the lands of Palestine ( including Israel )

 Ceasing the building of settlements on Jewish owned land

 Release of all convicted Palestinian terrorists


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> From that same report we see this
> 
> 
> *Length of Recidence in Palestine*
> (p 87 & p 98)The pre-war population accounts for 9,473 persons, which is slightly less than one-third of the present population, whereas the rest are post-war immigrants. Some 10.000 persons settled since 1924, since the so called middle-class immigration.
> 
> Length of residence in YearsMenWomenChildrenTotal %1150411181746436814,22240620201575600119,6313119131133335711,5469555672019716,4568245451316495,4685640339016495,4768227737913584,38139452614451,5939102002490,810-1323721889313484,414-2018821630216372812,121-29864800-16645,4Over 30836930-17665,8Unspecified3362813509673,2Total124699655837630500100 %
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]Whether there was significant Arab immigration into Palestine after the beginning of Jewish settlement there in the late 19th century has become a matter of some controversy. According to Martin Gilbert, 50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".[47] The Arab population of Palestine doubled during the mandatory period from 670 000 in 1922 to over 1.2 million in 1948. The estimates on the scope of Arab immigration to Palestine during this period range from insignificant numbers to almost 300 000.[_citation needed_] According to Itzhak Galnoor, although most of Arab population increase came from natural increase, the Arab immigration to Palestine was not insignificant. Based on his estimates approximately 100 000 Arabs immigrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1948.[48]
> 
> The 1931 census of Palestine considered the question of illegal immigration since the previous census in 1922.[55] It estimated that unrecorded immigration during that period may have amounted to 9,000 Jews and 4,000 Arabs.[55] It also gave the proportion of persons living in Palestine in 1931 who were born outside Palestine: Muslims, 2%; Christians, 20%; Jews, 58%
> In a 1974 study, Bachi proposed an average of 900 per year for the number of Muslims who were detected as illegal immigrants but not deported.[56] He noted the impossibility of estimating illegal immigration that was undetected, or the fraction of those persons who eventually departed.[56] He suggested, though qualifying it as a "mere guess", that the unexplained increase in the Muslim population between 1922 and 1931 was due to a combination of unrecorded immigration (using the 1931 census report estimate) and undercounting in the 1922 census
> Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm, Wiki Zionist tainted material as opposed to source documents.  Well done Phoney, you really know how to make a point. Now let's get the facts from the Report of the Mandatory:
> 
> As can be seen below in the table included in His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations of 1937, Muslim increase via migration was 25,168 during the period Jewish increase through migration was 245,433.
> 
> "6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> You are just making a fool of yourself.  Facts are facts.  Lying or using tainted backup  like you do is easily discovered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so now wikipedia is a Zionist source hahha. You have a pathetic excuse for everything
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a glutton for punishment:
> 
> " two Israeli groups seeking to gain the upper hand in the online debate have launched a course in "Zionist editing" for Wikipedia, the online reference site.
> 
> Yesha Council, representing the Jewish settler movement, and the rightwing Israel Sheli (My I srael) movement, ran their first workshop this week in Jerusalem, teaching participants how to rewrite and revise some of the most hotly disputed pages of the online reference site."
> 
> Wikipedia editing courses launched by Zionist groups World news The Guardian
> 
> "This example demonstrates how good articles full of useful information are systematically edited to remove material from reputable sources (if it does not suit the Zionist aims) and add information from other, often dubious sources. No matter what the topic, the Israeli version must come first and there are constant problems trying to maintain neutral tone and avoid weasel words."
> 
> https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Wikipedia's_Hasbara
> 
> "*u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit*
> 
> 
> 
> US Dept of Justice IP address blocked after 'vandalism' edits to Wikipediaexcerpt:Wikinews has learned that a United States Department of Justice (DOJ) IP Address has been blocked on Wikipedia after making edits to an article which were considered "vandalism". In two separate instances, the IP address from the DOJ removed information from the Wikipedia article about the organization Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA), regarding an attempt by the organization to secretly gain influence on the site. The IP address has been confirmed by Wikinews to be registered and used by the DOJ located in Washington, D.C."
> 
> we saw that... u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit....2013
> 
> 
> 
> Embedded media from this media site is no longer available
> 
> 
> "Troll editing on Wikipedia has been linked directly to such quasi-Israeli government entities as the media "watchdog" operation "CAMERA," or Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America." CAMERA, formed in 1982 by a group of Jewish activists in Boston tied to the Israeli government, has been the bane of many a newspaper editor or television news reporter. The group had a vendetta against ABC's Peter Jennings and the formerly rather unbiased National Public Radio for their even-handed Middle East reporting. At least five Wikipedia editors were found to be trolling for CAMERA and they were suspended. However, the rules governing Wikipedia permit many other CAMERA and pro-Israel trolls to operate with impunity.
> 
> Outside the CAMERA infrastructure, other Israeli groups also troll Wikipedia. Special Wikipedia editing classes have been sponsored on illegal settlements in the West Bank by the organizations Yesha Council and Israel Sheli. CAMERA's efforts were joined by the Hasbara Foundation (Hasbara is the term used for any Jew around the world who advances the propaganda of Israel). In 2007, the Hasbara Foundation, decrying the presence of unbiased information on Israel on Wikipedia, targeted certain editors' entries. The Hasbara Foundation claimed, "These authors have systematically yet subtly rewritten key passages of thousands of Wikipedia entries to portray Israel in a negative light. You have the opportunity to stop this dangerous trend! If you are interested in joining a team of Wikipedians to make sure Israel is presented fairly and accurately, please contact [the Hasbara Foundation] director."
> 
> zionists manipulating wiki - Google Search
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People can complain about wikipedia but all you have to do is go through to the sources and citations and make your own conclusions - unlike many sources - they do require citations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it is very easy to find the source of the information of any Wiki article by doing a search on Wiki
Click to expand...


Exactly..it has it advantages and disadvantages but for an initial look it's pretty good and if there is discussion/disention or a history of who changed what when - all of that is pretty transparent if you look.


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> Laughable, which is, of course, acceptable from a comedian. The little problem is that, how many palistanian "supporters of peace" are there? Five, ten, twenty of them? Israeli leftists used to gather tens of thousands of peaceniks on the Rabin's square in Tel Aviv. How many palistanian "peaceniks" gathered in Ramallah? Nil will be about right, of course. Now the majority of israeli peaceniks are gone, because they understood that, whatever the place one kisses a palistanian on, it's always an *ass*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And this spew has what to do with the false claim by some that Israel had no pre-conditions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same old general palistanian humiliational-occupational drivel, of course. They should get a life and a job, and Hananiya ahould stick to comedy.
> The words of Gladden Schrock describe palistanians perfecto:
> "*I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.*"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again.  What does this have to do with the false claim that Israel had no preconditions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about detailing these alleged pre conditions that are not enshrined in UN resolutions and the UN charter. Things like stopping all violence, terrorism and belligerence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They aren't "alleged" pre-conditions.
> 
> They are pre-conditions each side as set as a pre-requisite to entering into peace negotiations.
> 
> I've already detailed them in a prior post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then list them and not just link to an ambiguous site
> 
> The Palestinians always demand the following before they will talk about anything with Israel
> 
> Return to pre 1967 borders ( meaning the partition plan borders that are indefensible )
> 
> Right of return for every Palestinian who claims they lived in Israel and reparations for their losses.
> 
> Withdrawal of all post Zionist Jews from all the lands of Palestine ( including Israel )
> 
> Ceasing the building of settlements on Jewish owned land
> 
> Release of all convicted Palestinian terrorists
Click to expand...


The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities...


----------



## Phoenall

Penelope said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Always been team Israel's ground rules that Palestine was never a nation just an undefined area in the M.E.
> 
> It was a population in constant flux with highs and lows throughout history but it never reached it occupational density of pre roman times after the diaspora. Even the arab muslims shunned the land because it was too harsh and not easily tamed.
> 
> The people who inhabited the region did exist, but arab muslims did not for 700 years after the diaspora. Then after holding control of a small part they were beaten and expelled by the Crusaders.
> 
> The census is correct but I wonder how many of those muslims were arab and how many were Turkish, Egyptian or Iranian  all non arab muslims . I also wonder how many people were refused the right to fill in the census forms, or duplicated the forms. This happened in the Palestinian territories only a short time ago so that UNWRA could get more money for the terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A load of bullshit as usual.
> 
> Palestinians, people of the Roman provinces of Palestina have been of many religions ranging from those that worshiped the Roman religions, Judaism, Christianity and most recently Islam.  They are the same people whatever the religion or language they speak.
> 
> In fact, Palestine has always been one of the most fertile of the Middle East and there were few areas not being cultivated in the late 1800s, as confirmed by Ahad Ha'am after one of his visits to the area in the late 1800s:
> 
> "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."
> 
> David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> As far as the demographic make up prior to the 1850s and after we have confirmation of that to via the Mandatory's Interim Report of 1921, which confirms that there were but a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850 and that the Muslims made up four fifths of the population in 1921.and that they were not Arabs (only Bedouins are pure Arabians), but of mixed race, which is what Palestinians have always been:
> 
> "Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.....  Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews"
> 
> . - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From that same report we see this
> 
> 
> *Length of Recidence in Palestine*
> (p 87 & p 98)The pre-war population accounts for 9,473 persons, which is slightly less than one-third of the present population, whereas the rest are post-war immigrants. Some 10.000 persons settled since 1924, since the so called middle-class immigration.
> 
> Length of residence in YearsMenWomenChildrenTotal %1150411181746436814,22240620201575600119,6313119131133335711,5469555672019716,4568245451316495,4685640339016495,4768227737913584,38139452614451,5939102002490,810-1323721889313484,414-2018821630216372812,121-29864800-16645,4Over 30836930-17665,8Unspecified3362813509673,2Total124699655837630500100 %
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]Whether there was significant Arab immigration into Palestine after the beginning of Jewish settlement there in the late 19th century has become a matter of some controversy. According to Martin Gilbert, 50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".[47] The Arab population of Palestine doubled during the mandatory period from 670 000 in 1922 to over 1.2 million in 1948. The estimates on the scope of Arab immigration to Palestine during this period range from insignificant numbers to almost 300 000.[_citation needed_] According to Itzhak Galnoor, although most of Arab population increase came from natural increase, the Arab immigration to Palestine was not insignificant. Based on his estimates approximately 100 000 Arabs immigrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1948.[48]
> 
> The 1931 census of Palestine considered the question of illegal immigration since the previous census in 1922.[55] It estimated that unrecorded immigration during that period may have amounted to 9,000 Jews and 4,000 Arabs.[55] It also gave the proportion of persons living in Palestine in 1931 who were born outside Palestine: Muslims, 2%; Christians, 20%; Jews, 58%
> In a 1974 study, Bachi proposed an average of 900 per year for the number of Muslims who were detected as illegal immigrants but not deported.[56] He noted the impossibility of estimating illegal immigration that was undetected, or the fraction of those persons who eventually departed.[56] He suggested, though qualifying it as a "mere guess", that the unexplained increase in the Muslim population between 1922 and 1931 was due to a combination of unrecorded immigration (using the 1931 census report estimate) and undercounting in the 1922 census
> Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmm, Wiki Zionist tainted material as opposed to source documents.  Well done Phoney, you really know how to make a point. Now let's get the facts from the Report of the Mandatory:
> 
> As can be seen below in the table included in His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations of 1937, Muslim increase via migration was 25,168 during the period Jewish increase through migration was 245,433.
> 
> "6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> You are just making a fool of yourself.  Facts are facts.  Lying or using tainted backup  like you do is easily discovered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so now wikipedia is a Zionist source hahha. You have a pathetic excuse for everything
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Give it another 5 years, I begun noticing changes soon after they announced their educational Wiki editing program.  Their newspaper articles are created for the most part as well, with half truths and half propaganda.
Click to expand...




 The author of the article is a Palestinian ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDIST who writes under many different names, all of which are pro Palestinian. He/she has since been banned for being a "sock puppet"


----------



## Phoenall

pbel said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sooner the Palestinians run-up the White Flag of surrender, the sooner the healing can begin.
> 
> The Palestinians are the losers in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and, of course, the Losers in a war do not dictate the terms of peace.
> 
> That's not arrogance... that's the way the Real World works.
> 
> 
> 
> They will never surrender or bow to the Israeli boot...
> 
> Read the History of all previous Western footholds in this Sea of Islam...Time is their Weapon along with constant pressure and small fires...
Click to expand...




 Until they come up against the next Gates of Vienna and are thrown back, humiliated and defeated with the loss of all the lands they stole by force and most of their fighters. The next Gates of Vienna is fast approaching for the muslims


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm, Wiki Zionist tainted material as opposed to source documents.  Well done Phoney, you really know how to make a point. Now let's get the facts from the Report of the Mandatory:
> 
> As can be seen below in the table included in His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations of 1937, Muslim increase via migration was 25,168 during the period Jewish increase through migration was 245,433.
> 
> "6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> You are just making a fool of yourself.  Facts are facts.  Lying or using tainted backup  like you do is easily discovered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so now wikipedia is a Zionist source hahha. You have a pathetic excuse for everything
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a glutton for punishment:
> 
> " two Israeli groups seeking to gain the upper hand in the online debate have launched a course in "Zionist editing" for Wikipedia, the online reference site.
> 
> Yesha Council, representing the Jewish settler movement, and the rightwing Israel Sheli (My I srael) movement, ran their first workshop this week in Jerusalem, teaching participants how to rewrite and revise some of the most hotly disputed pages of the online reference site."
> 
> Wikipedia editing courses launched by Zionist groups World news The Guardian
> 
> "This example demonstrates how good articles full of useful information are systematically edited to remove material from reputable sources (if it does not suit the Zionist aims) and add information from other, often dubious sources. No matter what the topic, the Israeli version must come first and there are constant problems trying to maintain neutral tone and avoid weasel words."
> 
> https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Wikipedia's_Hasbara
> 
> "*u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit*
> 
> 
> 
> US Dept of Justice IP address blocked after 'vandalism' edits to Wikipediaexcerpt:Wikinews has learned that a United States Department of Justice (DOJ) IP Address has been blocked on Wikipedia after making edits to an article which were considered "vandalism". In two separate instances, the IP address from the DOJ removed information from the Wikipedia article about the organization Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA), regarding an attempt by the organization to secretly gain influence on the site. The IP address has been confirmed by Wikinews to be registered and used by the DOJ located in Washington, D.C."
> 
> we saw that... u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit....2013
> 
> 
> 
> Embedded media from this media site is no longer available
> 
> 
> "Troll editing on Wikipedia has been linked directly to such quasi-Israeli government entities as the media "watchdog" operation "CAMERA," or Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America." CAMERA, formed in 1982 by a group of Jewish activists in Boston tied to the Israeli government, has been the bane of many a newspaper editor or television news reporter. The group had a vendetta against ABC's Peter Jennings and the formerly rather unbiased National Public Radio for their even-handed Middle East reporting. At least five Wikipedia editors were found to be trolling for CAMERA and they were suspended. However, the rules governing Wikipedia permit many other CAMERA and pro-Israel trolls to operate with impunity.
> 
> Outside the CAMERA infrastructure, other Israeli groups also troll Wikipedia. Special Wikipedia editing classes have been sponsored on illegal settlements in the West Bank by the organizations Yesha Council and Israel Sheli. CAMERA's efforts were joined by the Hasbara Foundation (Hasbara is the term used for any Jew around the world who advances the propaganda of Israel). In 2007, the Hasbara Foundation, decrying the presence of unbiased information on Israel on Wikipedia, targeted certain editors' entries. The Hasbara Foundation claimed, "These authors have systematically yet subtly rewritten key passages of thousands of Wikipedia entries to portray Israel in a negative light. You have the opportunity to stop this dangerous trend! If you are interested in joining a team of Wikipedians to make sure Israel is presented fairly and accurately, please contact [the Hasbara Foundation] director."
> 
> zionists manipulating wiki - Google Search
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People can complain about wikipedia but all you have to do is go through to the sources and citations and make your own conclusions - unlike many sources - they do require citations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And as my wiki article shows it was written by a Palestinian muslim who also wrote many other articles under many different names, What are called "sock puppets"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Embedded media from this media site is no longer available
Click to expand...




 Your video does not later the facts that the article was written by a Palestinian as an anti Israel piece. He like you constantly makes claims about Zionism that are easily disproven.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Laughable, which is, of course, acceptable from a comedian. The little problem is that, how many palistanian "supporters of peace" are there? Five, ten, twenty of them? Israeli leftists used to gather tens of thousands of peaceniks on the Rabin's square in Tel Aviv. How many palistanian "peaceniks" gathered in Ramallah? Nil will be about right, of course. Now the majority of israeli peaceniks are gone, because they understood that, whatever the place one kisses a palistanian on, it's always an *ass*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this spew has what to do with the false claim by some that Israel had no pre-conditions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same old general palistanian humiliational-occupational drivel, of course. They should get a life and a job, and Hananiya ahould stick to comedy.
> The words of Gladden Schrock describe palistanians perfecto:
> "*I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.*"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again.  What does this have to do with the false claim that Israel had no preconditions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about detailing these alleged pre conditions that are not enshrined in UN resolutions and the UN charter. Things like stopping all violence, terrorism and belligerence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They aren't "alleged" pre-conditions.
> 
> They are pre-conditions each side as set as a pre-requisite to entering into peace negotiations.
> 
> I've already detailed them in a prior post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then list them and not just link to an ambiguous site
> 
> The Palestinians always demand the following before they will talk about anything with Israel
> 
> Return to pre 1967 borders ( meaning the partition plan borders that are indefensible )
> 
> Right of return for every Palestinian who claims they lived in Israel and reparations for their losses.
> 
> Withdrawal of all post Zionist Jews from all the lands of Palestine ( including Israel )
> 
> Ceasing the building of settlements on Jewish owned land
> 
> Release of all convicted Palestinian terrorists
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities...
Click to expand...




 hardly a detailed list of pre conditions are they, more a list of already agreed points under the Oslo Accords.

 As for recognition if Arafat could state Israel was a Jewish state why cant the Palestinian negotiators.

 Then we come to the  defence of Israel that asks only that the Palestinians give up all violence, terrorism and belligerence in accordance with the UN charters they have recently signed. Going on the Palestinians past performance with similar treaties Israel is right in not accepting their word on the matter and will keep the right to retaliate to Palestinian terrorism and violence.

So all in all not pre conditions but points of interest to be debated during the peace talks.


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> And this spew has what to do with the false claim by some that Israel had no pre-conditions?
> 
> Again.  What does this have to do with the false claim that Israel had no preconditions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about detailing these alleged pre conditions that are not enshrined in UN resolutions and the UN charter. Things like stopping all violence, terrorism and belligerence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They aren't "alleged" pre-conditions.
> 
> They are pre-conditions each side as set as a pre-requisite to entering into peace negotiations.
> 
> I've already detailed them in a prior post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then list them and not just link to an ambiguous site
> 
> The Palestinians always demand the following before they will talk about anything with Israel
> 
> Return to pre 1967 borders ( meaning the partition plan borders that are indefensible )
> 
> Right of return for every Palestinian who claims they lived in Israel and reparations for their losses.
> 
> Withdrawal of all post Zionist Jews from all the lands of Palestine ( including Israel )
> 
> Ceasing the building of settlements on Jewish owned land
> 
> Release of all convicted Palestinian terrorists
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hardly a detailed list of pre conditions are they, more a list of already agreed points under the Oslo Accords.
> 
> As for recognition if Arafat could state Israel was a Jewish state why cant the Palestinian negotiators.
> 
> Then we come to the  defence of Israel that asks only that the Palestinians give up all violence, terrorism and belligerence in accordance with the UN charters they have recently signed. Going on the Palestinians past performance with similar treaties Israel is right in not accepting their word on the matter and will keep the right to retaliate to Palestinian terrorism and violence.
> 
> So all in all not pre conditions but points of interest to be debated during the peace talks.
Click to expand...


Uh.  No.  They are pre-conditions - conditions demanded prior to any negotiations.


*A one-sided end to violence*: Palestinians must prevent their extremists from committing acts of violence, but Israel can continue to not only attack Palestinian areas in the Gaza Strip with missiles, but they can also target Palestinians in the West Bank. 

Palestinians *accept Israeli confiscations of West Bank land around East Jerusalem and accept the expansion of settlements in the West Bank - *Jerusalem  remains undivided.
Palestinians must recognize Israel as a *Jewish State*.


----------



## docmauser1

Coyote said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Both sides are stuck in that same rut. Have you forgotten Israel's many pre-conditions over the years?
> 
> 
> 
> What are they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's become almost normal for Palestinians and Israelis who support peace to find themselves at the same old roadblock, going nowhere fast. The only thing moving are the extremists, who continue to pave the way to the mutual destruction of both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Laughable, which is, of course, acceptable from a comedian. The little problem is that, how many palistanian "supporters of peace" are there? Five, ten, twenty of them? Israeli leftists used to gather tens of thousands of peaceniks on the Rabin's square in Tel Aviv. How many palistanian "peaceniks" gathered in Ramallah? Nil will be about right, of course. Now the majority of israeli peaceniks are gone, because they understood that, whatever the place one kisses a palistanian on, it's always an *ass*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And this spew has what to do with the false claim by some that Israel had no pre-conditions?
> 
> 
> 
> And I was wondering what Hananiya's "peaceful palistanian" babblings have to do with the israeli preconditions too.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli and Palestinian leaders refuse to talk about the steps necessary to make peace. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu *has imposed several pre-conditions for peace talks* to resume. *They include the demand for a one-sided end to violence*: Palestinians must prevent their extremists from committing acts of violence, but Israel can continue to not only attack Palestinian areas in the Gaza Strip with missiles, but they can also target Palestinians in the West Bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Same old general palistanian humiliational-occupational drivel, of course. They should get a life and a job, and Hananiya ahould stick to comedy.
> The words of Gladden Schrock describe palistanians perfecto:
> "*I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.*"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again.  What does this have to do with the false claim that Israel had no preconditions?
Click to expand...

I don't remember ever making such claim. Who made it for me?


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Always been team Israel's ground rules that Palestine was never a nation just an undefined area in the M.E.
> 
> It was a population in constant flux with highs and lows throughout history but it never reached it occupational density of pre roman times after the diaspora. Even the arab muslims shunned the land because it was too harsh and not easily tamed.
> 
> The people who inhabited the region did exist, but arab muslims did not for 700 years after the diaspora. Then after holding control of a small part they were beaten and expelled by the Crusaders.
> 
> The census is correct but I wonder how many of those muslims were arab and how many were Turkish, Egyptian or Iranian  all non arab muslims . I also wonder how many people were refused the right to fill in the census forms, or duplicated the forms. This happened in the Palestinian territories only a short time ago so that UNWRA could get more money for the terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A load of bullshit as usual.
> 
> Palestinians, people of the Roman provinces of Palestina have been of many religions ranging from those that worshiped the Roman religions, Judaism, Christianity and most recently Islam.  They are the same people whatever the religion or language they speak.
> 
> In fact, Palestine has always been one of the most fertile of the Middle East and there were few areas not being cultivated in the late 1800s, as confirmed by Ahad Ha'am after one of his visits to the area in the late 1800s:
> 
> "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."
> 
> David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> As far as the demographic make up prior to the 1850s and after we have confirmation of that to via the Mandatory's Interim Report of 1921, which confirms that there were but a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850 and that the Muslims made up four fifths of the population in 1921.and that they were not Arabs (only Bedouins are pure Arabians), but of mixed race, which is what Palestinians have always been:
> 
> "Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.....  Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews"
> 
> . - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From that same report we see this
> 
> 
> *Length of Recidence in Palestine*
> (p 87 & p 98)The pre-war population accounts for 9,473 persons, which is slightly less than one-third of the present population, whereas the rest are post-war immigrants. Some 10.000 persons settled since 1924, since the so called middle-class immigration.
> 
> Length of residence in YearsMenWomenChildrenTotal %1150411181746436814,22240620201575600119,6313119131133335711,5469555672019716,4568245451316495,4685640339016495,4768227737913584,38139452614451,5939102002490,810-1323721889313484,414-2018821630216372812,121-29864800-16645,4Over 30836930-17665,8Unspecified3362813509673,2Total124699655837630500100 %
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]Whether there was significant Arab immigration into Palestine after the beginning of Jewish settlement there in the late 19th century has become a matter of some controversy. According to Martin Gilbert, 50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".[47] The Arab population of Palestine doubled during the mandatory period from 670 000 in 1922 to over 1.2 million in 1948. The estimates on the scope of Arab immigration to Palestine during this period range from insignificant numbers to almost 300 000.[_citation needed_] According to Itzhak Galnoor, although most of Arab population increase came from natural increase, the Arab immigration to Palestine was not insignificant. Based on his estimates approximately 100 000 Arabs immigrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1948.[48]
> 
> The 1931 census of Palestine considered the question of illegal immigration since the previous census in 1922.[55] It estimated that unrecorded immigration during that period may have amounted to 9,000 Jews and 4,000 Arabs.[55] It also gave the proportion of persons living in Palestine in 1931 who were born outside Palestine: Muslims, 2%; Christians, 20%; Jews, 58%
> In a 1974 study, Bachi proposed an average of 900 per year for the number of Muslims who were detected as illegal immigrants but not deported.[56] He noted the impossibility of estimating illegal immigration that was undetected, or the fraction of those persons who eventually departed.[56] He suggested, though qualifying it as a "mere guess", that the unexplained increase in the Muslim population between 1922 and 1931 was due to a combination of unrecorded immigration (using the 1931 census report estimate) and undercounting in the 1922 census
> Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmm, Wiki Zionist tainted material as opposed to source documents.  Well done Phoney, you really know how to make a point. Now let's get the facts from the Report of the Mandatory:
> 
> As can be seen below in the table included in His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations of 1937, Muslim increase via migration was 25,168 during the period Jewish increase through migration was 245,433.
> 
> "6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> You are just making a fool of yourself.  Facts are facts.  Lying or using tainted backup  like you do is easily discovered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so now wikipedia is a Zionist source hahha. You have a pathetic excuse for everything
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a glutton for punishment:
> 
> " two Israeli groups seeking to gain the upper hand in the online debate have launched a course in "Zionist editing" for Wikipedia, the online reference site.
> 
> Yesha Council, representing the Jewish settler movement, and the rightwing Israel Sheli (My I srael) movement, ran their first workshop this week in Jerusalem, teaching participants how to rewrite and revise some of the most hotly disputed pages of the online reference site."
> 
> Wikipedia editing courses launched by Zionist groups World news The Guardian
> 
> "This example demonstrates how good articles full of useful information are systematically edited to remove material from reputable sources (if it does not suit the Zionist aims) and add information from other, often dubious sources. No matter what the topic, the Israeli version must come first and there are constant problems trying to maintain neutral tone and avoid weasel words."
> 
> https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Wikipedia's_Hasbara
> 
> "*u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit*
> 
> 
> 
> US Dept of Justice IP address blocked after 'vandalism' edits to Wikipediaexcerpt:Wikinews has learned that a United States Department of Justice (DOJ) IP Address has been blocked on Wikipedia after making edits to an article which were considered "vandalism". In two separate instances, the IP address from the DOJ removed information from the Wikipedia article about the organization Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA), regarding an attempt by the organization to secretly gain influence on the site. The IP address has been confirmed by Wikinews to be registered and used by the DOJ located in Washington, D.C."
> 
> we saw that... u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit....2013
> 
> 
> 
> Embedded media from this media site is no longer available
> 
> 
> "Troll editing on Wikipedia has been linked directly to such quasi-Israeli government entities as the media "watchdog" operation "CAMERA," or Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America." CAMERA, formed in 1982 by a group of Jewish activists in Boston tied to the Israeli government, has been the bane of many a newspaper editor or television news reporter. The group had a vendetta against ABC's Peter Jennings and the formerly rather unbiased National Public Radio for their even-handed Middle East reporting. At least five Wikipedia editors were found to be trolling for CAMERA and they were suspended. However, the rules governing Wikipedia permit many other CAMERA and pro-Israel trolls to operate with impunity.
> 
> Outside the CAMERA infrastructure, other Israeli groups also troll Wikipedia. Special Wikipedia editing classes have been sponsored on illegal settlements in the West Bank by the organizations Yesha Council and Israel Sheli. CAMERA's efforts were joined by the Hasbara Foundation (Hasbara is the term used for any Jew around the world who advances the propaganda of Israel). In 2007, the Hasbara Foundation, decrying the presence of unbiased information on Israel on Wikipedia, targeted certain editors' entries. The Hasbara Foundation claimed, "These authors have systematically yet subtly rewritten key passages of thousands of Wikipedia entries to portray Israel in a negative light. You have the opportunity to stop this dangerous trend! If you are interested in joining a team of Wikipedians to make sure Israel is presented fairly and accurately, please contact [the Hasbara Foundation] director."
> 
> zionists manipulating wiki - Google Search
Click to expand...


Man you're stupid. ANYONE is allowed to edit wikipedia. Not to mention pro Palestinians here use it all the time. 
The issue with you is that you cannot handle the truth, so you always make bullshit excuses. It's the pro Palestinians way


----------



## docmauser1

Penelope said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote,  _et al,_
> 
> What are the pre-conditions?
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again.  What does this have to do with the false claim that Israel had no preconditions?
> 
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATION)*
> 
> *Netanyahu Reiterates Israeli Preconditions For “Peace”*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monday October 28, 2013 05:42
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by Saed Bannoura -
> [Sunday October 27, 2013] Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, stated that Tel Aviv is seeking peace with the Palestinians, but reiterated Israeli preconditions and demands to recognize Israel as a Jewish State, and drop the internationally guaranteed Right of Return of the Palestinian Refugees.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Is there such a thing as an "internationally guaranteed Right of Return of the Palestinian Refugees?"  And if so, what does that guarantee say?
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the article you listed he also said: “We insist that Jerusalem will always be the united capital of Israel, the Palestinians must recognize Israel as the homeland of the Jewish people”, Netanyahu said, *“The Palestinians have no national rights in the state of Israel”.* He must be out of his mind, the utter arrogance of the man.
Click to expand...

They have all their "national rights" in palistan, of course. Having palistan and Israel too is too much of a good thingie for them, indeed.


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> zionists manipulating wiki - Google Search


Arabist manipulators, calling others manipulators. Funny.


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sooner the Palestinians run-up the White Flag of surrender, the sooner the healing can begin.
> 
> The Palestinians are the losers in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and, of course, the Losers in a war do not dictate the terms of peace.
> 
> That's not arrogance... that's the way the Real World works.
> 
> 
> 
> They will never surrender or bow to the Israeli boot...
> 
> Read the History of all previous Western footholds in this Sea of Islam...Time is their Weapon along with constant pressure and small fires...
Click to expand...

How nice for you.

Bad for the Palestinians, though.


----------



## docmauser1

Coyote said:


> Uh.  No.  They are pre-conditions - conditions demanded prior to any negotiations.
> 
> *A one-sided end to violence*: Palestinians must prevent their extremists from committing acts of violence, but Israel can continue to not only attack Palestinian areas in the Gaza Strip with missiles, but they can also target Palestinians in the West Bank.
> Palestinians *accept Israeli confiscations of West Bank land around East Jerusalem and accept the expansion of settlements in the West Bank - *Jerusalem  remains undivided.
> Palestinians must recognize Israel as a *Jewish State*.



If palistanians don't _prevent their extremists from committing acts of violence_, it doesn't pay bitching about Israel, taking care of them palistanian extremists for them, of course.
Since palistanian settlers don't have borders and are extremely shy of having a state they want so much but are unwilling to work for, they don't really have to call others settlers, of course.
Jerusalem is an annexed territory.
The fact that palistanians are having an occupation to live off of doesn't mean that we must take them seriously.


----------



## Kondor3

Phoenall said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sooner the Palestinians run-up the White Flag of surrender, the sooner the healing can begin.
> 
> The Palestinians are the losers in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and, of course, the Losers in a war do not dictate the terms of peace.
> 
> That's not arrogance... that's the way the Real World works.
> 
> 
> 
> They will never surrender or bow to the Israeli boot...
> 
> Read the History of all previous Western footholds in this Sea of Islam...Time is their Weapon along with constant pressure and small fires...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until they come up against the next Gates of Vienna and are thrown back, humiliated and defeated with the loss of all the lands they stole by force and most of their fighters. The next Gates of Vienna is fast approaching for the muslims
Click to expand...

It will be the Gates of Jerusalem.


----------



## Coyote

docmauser1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Both sides are stuck in that same rut. Have you forgotten Israel's many pre-conditions over the years?
> 
> 
> 
> What are they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's become almost normal for Palestinians and Israelis who support peace to find themselves at the same old roadblock, going nowhere fast. The only thing moving are the extremists, who continue to pave the way to the mutual destruction of both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Laughable, which is, of course, acceptable from a comedian. The little problem is that, how many palistanian "supporters of peace" are there? Five, ten, twenty of them? Israeli leftists used to gather tens of thousands of peaceniks on the Rabin's square in Tel Aviv. How many palistanian "peaceniks" gathered in Ramallah? Nil will be about right, of course. Now the majority of israeli peaceniks are gone, because they understood that, whatever the place one kisses a palistanian on, it's always an *ass*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And this spew has what to do with the false claim by some that Israel had no pre-conditions?
> 
> 
> 
> And I was wondering what Hananiya's "peaceful palistanian" babblings have to do with the israeli preconditions too.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli and Palestinian leaders refuse to talk about the steps necessary to make peace. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu *has imposed several pre-conditions for peace talks* to resume. *They include the demand for a one-sided end to violence*: Palestinians must prevent their extremists from committing acts of violence, but Israel can continue to not only attack Palestinian areas in the Gaza Strip with missiles, but they can also target Palestinians in the West Bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Same old general palistanian humiliational-occupational drivel, of course. They should get a life and a job, and Hananiya ahould stick to comedy.
> The words of Gladden Schrock describe palistanians perfecto:
> "*I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.*"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again.  What does this have to do with the false claim that Israel had no preconditions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't remember ever making such claim. Who made it for me?
Click to expand...


I did not say *you* made that claim or that someone else did on your behalf.  My post, which you responded to and the posts that preceded it were about that false claim that several have made.  I merely wondered what your response had to do with what I was talking about since there seems to be no connection.


----------



## montelatici

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> zionists manipulating wiki - Google Search
> 
> 
> 
> Arabist manipulators, calling others manipulators. Funny.
Click to expand...



"Zionist editing' on Wikipedia"

 Advertisement

"Wikipedia Editing for Zionists"

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/wikipedia-editing-for-zionists/


----------



## Coyote

docmauser1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uh.  No.  They are pre-conditions - conditions demanded prior to any negotiations.
> 
> *A one-sided end to violence*: Palestinians must prevent their extremists from committing acts of violence, but Israel can continue to not only attack Palestinian areas in the Gaza Strip with missiles, but they can also target Palestinians in the West Bank.
> Palestinians *accept Israeli confiscations of West Bank land around East Jerusalem and accept the expansion of settlements in the West Bank - *Jerusalem  remains undivided.
> Palestinians must recognize Israel as a *Jewish State*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [1]If palistanians don't _prevent their extremists from committing acts of violence_, it doesn't pay bitching about Israel, taking care of them palistanian extremists for them, of course.[1]Since palistanian settlers don't have borders and are extremely shy of having a state they want so much but are unwilling to work for, they don't really have to call others settlers, of course.[1]Jerusalem is an annexed territory.[1]The fact that palistanians are having an occupation to live off of doesn't mean that we must take them seriously.
Click to expand...


So...?  What's your point?

I'm not saying one way or the other on the validity of the pre-conditions from either side.  I'm pointing out that both sides are engaging in extensive demands for pre-conditions to be met prior to any talks of peace.  Demanding pre-conditions seems detrimental to the process.  They should hash it out at the table.


----------



## Coyote

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> zionists manipulating wiki - Google Search
> 
> 
> 
> Arabist manipulators, calling others manipulators. Funny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Zionist editing' on Wikipedia"
> 
> Advertisement
> 
> "Wikipedia Editing for Zionists"
> 
> http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/wikipedia-editing-for-zionists/
Click to expand...


Everyone edits Wiki - from all sides.  You especially see it around election times.

But then again - all you have to do is use your brain and track down the sources, and the arguments and who's who that has made changes and what the original text was.

Or, just go to the sources and see what they say.  At least wiki makes a note when claims are made without a citation or the claims are thin.


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> A load of bullshit as usual.
> 
> Palestinians, people of the Roman provinces of Palestina have been of many religions ranging from those that worshiped the Roman religions, Judaism, Christianity and most recently Islam.  They are the same people whatever the religion or language they speak.
> 
> In fact, Palestine has always been one of the most fertile of the Middle East and there were few areas not being cultivated in the late 1800s, as confirmed by Ahad Ha'am after one of his visits to the area in the late 1800s:
> 
> "We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."
> 
> David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> As far as the demographic make up prior to the 1850s and after we have confirmation of that to via the Mandatory's Interim Report of 1921, which confirms that there were but a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850 and that the Muslims made up four fifths of the population in 1921.and that they were not Arabs (only Bedouins are pure Arabians), but of mixed race, which is what Palestinians have always been:
> 
> "Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.....  Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews"
> 
> . - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From that same report we see this
> 
> 
> *Length of Recidence in Palestine*
> (p 87 & p 98)The pre-war population accounts for 9,473 persons, which is slightly less than one-third of the present population, whereas the rest are post-war immigrants. Some 10.000 persons settled since 1924, since the so called middle-class immigration.
> 
> Length of residence in YearsMenWomenChildrenTotal %1150411181746436814,22240620201575600119,6313119131133335711,5469555672019716,4568245451316495,4685640339016495,4768227737913584,38139452614451,5939102002490,810-1323721889313484,414-2018821630216372812,121-29864800-16645,4Over 30836930-17665,8Unspecified3362813509673,2Total124699655837630500100 %
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]Whether there was significant Arab immigration into Palestine after the beginning of Jewish settlement there in the late 19th century has become a matter of some controversy. According to Martin Gilbert, 50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".[47] The Arab population of Palestine doubled during the mandatory period from 670 000 in 1922 to over 1.2 million in 1948. The estimates on the scope of Arab immigration to Palestine during this period range from insignificant numbers to almost 300 000.[_citation needed_] According to Itzhak Galnoor, although most of Arab population increase came from natural increase, the Arab immigration to Palestine was not insignificant. Based on his estimates approximately 100 000 Arabs immigrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1948.[48]
> 
> The 1931 census of Palestine considered the question of illegal immigration since the previous census in 1922.[55] It estimated that unrecorded immigration during that period may have amounted to 9,000 Jews and 4,000 Arabs.[55] It also gave the proportion of persons living in Palestine in 1931 who were born outside Palestine: Muslims, 2%; Christians, 20%; Jews, 58%
> In a 1974 study, Bachi proposed an average of 900 per year for the number of Muslims who were detected as illegal immigrants but not deported.[56] He noted the impossibility of estimating illegal immigration that was undetected, or the fraction of those persons who eventually departed.[56] He suggested, though qualifying it as a "mere guess", that the unexplained increase in the Muslim population between 1922 and 1931 was due to a combination of unrecorded immigration (using the 1931 census report estimate) and undercounting in the 1922 census
> Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmm, Wiki Zionist tainted material as opposed to source documents.  Well done Phoney, you really know how to make a point. Now let's get the facts from the Report of the Mandatory:
> 
> As can be seen below in the table included in His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations of 1937, Muslim increase via migration was 25,168 during the period Jewish increase through migration was 245,433.
> 
> "6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> You are just making a fool of yourself.  Facts are facts.  Lying or using tainted backup  like you do is easily discovered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so now wikipedia is a Zionist source hahha. You have a pathetic excuse for everything
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a glutton for punishment:
> 
> " two Israeli groups seeking to gain the upper hand in the online debate have launched a course in "Zionist editing" for Wikipedia, the online reference site.
> 
> Yesha Council, representing the Jewish settler movement, and the rightwing Israel Sheli (My I srael) movement, ran their first workshop this week in Jerusalem, teaching participants how to rewrite and revise some of the most hotly disputed pages of the online reference site."
> 
> Wikipedia editing courses launched by Zionist groups World news The Guardian
> 
> "This example demonstrates how good articles full of useful information are systematically edited to remove material from reputable sources (if it does not suit the Zionist aims) and add information from other, often dubious sources. No matter what the topic, the Israeli version must come first and there are constant problems trying to maintain neutral tone and avoid weasel words."
> 
> https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Wikipedia's_Hasbara
> 
> "*u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit*
> 
> 
> 
> US Dept of Justice IP address blocked after 'vandalism' edits to Wikipediaexcerpt:Wikinews has learned that a United States Department of Justice (DOJ) IP Address has been blocked on Wikipedia after making edits to an article which were considered "vandalism". In two separate instances, the IP address from the DOJ removed information from the Wikipedia article about the organization Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA), regarding an attempt by the organization to secretly gain influence on the site. The IP address has been confirmed by Wikinews to be registered and used by the DOJ located in Washington, D.C."
> 
> we saw that... u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit....2013
> 
> 
> 
> Embedded media from this media site is no longer available
> 
> 
> "Troll editing on Wikipedia has been linked directly to such quasi-Israeli government entities as the media "watchdog" operation "CAMERA," or Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America." CAMERA, formed in 1982 by a group of Jewish activists in Boston tied to the Israeli government, has been the bane of many a newspaper editor or television news reporter. The group had a vendetta against ABC's Peter Jennings and the formerly rather unbiased National Public Radio for their even-handed Middle East reporting. At least five Wikipedia editors were found to be trolling for CAMERA and they were suspended. However, the rules governing Wikipedia permit many other CAMERA and pro-Israel trolls to operate with impunity.
> 
> Outside the CAMERA infrastructure, other Israeli groups also troll Wikipedia. Special Wikipedia editing classes have been sponsored on illegal settlements in the West Bank by the organizations Yesha Council and Israel Sheli. CAMERA's efforts were joined by the Hasbara Foundation (Hasbara is the term used for any Jew around the world who advances the propaganda of Israel). In 2007, the Hasbara Foundation, decrying the presence of unbiased information on Israel on Wikipedia, targeted certain editors' entries. The Hasbara Foundation claimed, "These authors have systematically yet subtly rewritten key passages of thousands of Wikipedia entries to portray Israel in a negative light. You have the opportunity to stop this dangerous trend! If you are interested in joining a team of Wikipedians to make sure Israel is presented fairly and accurately, please contact [the Hasbara Foundation] director."
> 
> zionists manipulating wiki - Google Search
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Man you're stupid. ANYONE is allowed to edit wikipedia. Not to mention pro Palestinians here use it all the time.
> The issue with you is that you cannot handle the truth, so you always make bullshit excuses. It's the pro Palestinians way
Click to expand...


You know I am the smartest poster you have come up against, that's what drives you crazy, I make you look like a fool. I just present facts with backup, like the Hasbara initiative to edit WIKI.


"Zionist editing' on Wikipedia"

Advertisement

"Wikipedia Editing for Zionists"

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/wikipedia-editing-for-zionists/


----------



## pbel

Kondor3 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sooner the Palestinians run-up the White Flag of surrender, the sooner the healing can begin.
> 
> The Palestinians are the losers in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and, of course, the Losers in a war do not dictate the terms of peace.
> 
> That's not arrogance... that's the way the Real World works.
> 
> 
> 
> They will never surrender or bow to the Israeli boot...
> 
> Read the History of all previous Western footholds in this Sea of Islam...Time is their Weapon along with constant pressure and small fires...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How nice for you.
> 
> Bad for the Palestinians, though.
Click to expand...

The Palestinians are the least of Israel's problems in the long-term if a peace deal is not reached.


----------



## docmauser1

Coyote said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uh.  No.  They are pre-conditions - conditions demanded prior to any negotiations.
> 
> *A one-sided end to violence*: Palestinians must prevent their extremists from committing acts of violence, but Israel can continue to not only attack Palestinian areas in the Gaza Strip with missiles, but they can also target Palestinians in the West Bank.
> Palestinians *accept Israeli confiscations of West Bank land around East Jerusalem and accept the expansion of settlements in the West Bank - *Jerusalem  remains undivided.
> Palestinians must recognize Israel as a *Jewish State*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If palistanians don't _prevent their extremists from committing acts of violence_, it doesn't pay bitching about Israel, taking care of them palistanian extremists for them, of course.
> Since palistanian settlers don't have borders and are extremely shy of having a state they want so much but are unwilling to work for, they don't really have to call others settlers, of course.
> Jerusalem is an annexed territory.
> The fact that palistanians are having an occupation to live off of doesn't mean that we must take them seriously.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So...?  What's your point?
Click to expand...

In the most general term - palistanians do not want a state. That's it.


Coyote said:


> I'm not saying one way or the other on the validity of the pre-conditions from either side.  I'm pointing out that both sides are engaging in extensive demands for pre-conditions to be met prior to any talks of peace.  Demanding pre-conditions seems detrimental to the process.  They should hash it out at the table.


----------



## montelatici

Coyote said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> zionists manipulating wiki - Google Search
> 
> 
> 
> Arabist manipulators, calling others manipulators. Funny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Zionist editing' on Wikipedia"
> 
> Advertisement
> 
> "Wikipedia Editing for Zionists"
> 
> http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/wikipedia-editing-for-zionists/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Everyone edits Wiki - from all sides.  You especially see it around election times.
> 
> But then again - all you have to do is use your brain and track down the sources, and the arguments and who's who that has made changes and what the original text was.
> 
> Or, just go to the sources and see what they say.  At least wiki makes a note when claims are made without a citation or the claims are thin.
Click to expand...


Why not use source documents, they don't change.  There are a surprisingly low number of people that actually do the editing on wikipedia, frankly I don't trust it for information related to contentious issues and try to use it as little as possible to make my points:

"So did the Gang of 500 actually write Wikipedia? Wales decided to run a simple study to find out: he counted who made the most edits to the site. "I expected to find something like an 80-20 rule: 80% of the work being done by 20% of the users, just because that seems to come up a lot. But it's actually much, much tighter than that: it turns out *over 50% of all the edits are done by just .7% of the users ... 524 people. ... And in fact the most active 2%, which is 1400 people, have done 73.4% of all the edits."* The remaining 25% of edits, he said, were from "people who [are] contributing ... a minor change of a fact or a minor spelling fix ... or something like that."

Read more: Who The Hell Writes Wikipedia Anyway - Business Insider


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> You know I am the smartest poster you have come up against, that's what drives you crazy, I make you look like a fool. I just present facts with backup, like the Hasbara initiative to edit WIKI.


It's the best joke, so far, after the one about those major arab settlers, who got to be saudi sheiks to own(!) 90%(!) of the mandate palestine.


----------



## montelatici

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know I am the smartest poster you have come up against, that's what drives you crazy, I make you look like a fool. I just present facts with backup, like the Hasbara initiative to edit WIKI.
> 
> 
> 
> It's the best joke, so far, after the one about those major arab settlers, who got to be saudi sheiks to own(!) 90%(!) of the mandate palestine.
Click to expand...


Oh, you mean the data reported by the British from the Mandate Land Registries in the 1946 Survey of Palestine prepared for the UN?  Well let's see them again. Oh dear what a come down after believing the propaganda LOL


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> From that same report we see this
> 
> 
> *Length of Recidence in Palestine*
> (p 87 & p 98)The pre-war population accounts for 9,473 persons, which is slightly less than one-third of the present population, whereas the rest are post-war immigrants. Some 10.000 persons settled since 1924, since the so called middle-class immigration.
> 
> Length of residence in YearsMenWomenChildrenTotal %1150411181746436814,22240620201575600119,6313119131133335711,5469555672019716,4568245451316495,4685640339016495,4768227737913584,38139452614451,5939102002490,810-1323721889313484,414-2018821630216372812,121-29864800-16645,4Over 30836930-17665,8Unspecified3362813509673,2Total124699655837630500100 %
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]Whether there was significant Arab immigration into Palestine after the beginning of Jewish settlement there in the late 19th century has become a matter of some controversy. According to Martin Gilbert, 50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".[47] The Arab population of Palestine doubled during the mandatory period from 670 000 in 1922 to over 1.2 million in 1948. The estimates on the scope of Arab immigration to Palestine during this period range from insignificant numbers to almost 300 000.[_citation needed_] According to Itzhak Galnoor, although most of Arab population increase came from natural increase, the Arab immigration to Palestine was not insignificant. Based on his estimates approximately 100 000 Arabs immigrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1948.[48]
> 
> The 1931 census of Palestine considered the question of illegal immigration since the previous census in 1922.[55] It estimated that unrecorded immigration during that period may have amounted to 9,000 Jews and 4,000 Arabs.[55] It also gave the proportion of persons living in Palestine in 1931 who were born outside Palestine: Muslims, 2%; Christians, 20%; Jews, 58%
> In a 1974 study, Bachi proposed an average of 900 per year for the number of Muslims who were detected as illegal immigrants but not deported.[56] He noted the impossibility of estimating illegal immigration that was undetected, or the fraction of those persons who eventually departed.[56] He suggested, though qualifying it as a "mere guess", that the unexplained increase in the Muslim population between 1922 and 1931 was due to a combination of unrecorded immigration (using the 1931 census report estimate) and undercounting in the 1922 census
> Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm, Wiki Zionist tainted material as opposed to source documents.  Well done Phoney, you really know how to make a point. Now let's get the facts from the Report of the Mandatory:
> 
> As can be seen below in the table included in His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations of 1937, Muslim increase via migration was 25,168 during the period Jewish increase through migration was 245,433.
> 
> "6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> You are just making a fool of yourself.  Facts are facts.  Lying or using tainted backup  like you do is easily discovered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so now wikipedia is a Zionist source hahha. You have a pathetic excuse for everything
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a glutton for punishment:
> 
> " two Israeli groups seeking to gain the upper hand in the online debate have launched a course in "Zionist editing" for Wikipedia, the online reference site.
> 
> Yesha Council, representing the Jewish settler movement, and the rightwing Israel Sheli (My I srael) movement, ran their first workshop this week in Jerusalem, teaching participants how to rewrite and revise some of the most hotly disputed pages of the online reference site."
> 
> Wikipedia editing courses launched by Zionist groups World news The Guardian
> 
> "This example demonstrates how good articles full of useful information are systematically edited to remove material from reputable sources (if it does not suit the Zionist aims) and add information from other, often dubious sources. No matter what the topic, the Israeli version must come first and there are constant problems trying to maintain neutral tone and avoid weasel words."
> 
> https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Wikipedia's_Hasbara
> 
> "*u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit*
> 
> 
> 
> US Dept of Justice IP address blocked after 'vandalism' edits to Wikipediaexcerpt:Wikinews has learned that a United States Department of Justice (DOJ) IP Address has been blocked on Wikipedia after making edits to an article which were considered "vandalism". In two separate instances, the IP address from the DOJ removed information from the Wikipedia article about the organization Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA), regarding an attempt by the organization to secretly gain influence on the site. The IP address has been confirmed by Wikinews to be registered and used by the DOJ located in Washington, D.C."
> 
> we saw that... u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit....2013
> 
> 
> 
> Embedded media from this media site is no longer available
> 
> 
> "Troll editing on Wikipedia has been linked directly to such quasi-Israeli government entities as the media "watchdog" operation "CAMERA," or Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America." CAMERA, formed in 1982 by a group of Jewish activists in Boston tied to the Israeli government, has been the bane of many a newspaper editor or television news reporter. The group had a vendetta against ABC's Peter Jennings and the formerly rather unbiased National Public Radio for their even-handed Middle East reporting. At least five Wikipedia editors were found to be trolling for CAMERA and they were suspended. However, the rules governing Wikipedia permit many other CAMERA and pro-Israel trolls to operate with impunity.
> 
> Outside the CAMERA infrastructure, other Israeli groups also troll Wikipedia. Special Wikipedia editing classes have been sponsored on illegal settlements in the West Bank by the organizations Yesha Council and Israel Sheli. CAMERA's efforts were joined by the Hasbara Foundation (Hasbara is the term used for any Jew around the world who advances the propaganda of Israel). In 2007, the Hasbara Foundation, decrying the presence of unbiased information on Israel on Wikipedia, targeted certain editors' entries. The Hasbara Foundation claimed, "These authors have systematically yet subtly rewritten key passages of thousands of Wikipedia entries to portray Israel in a negative light. You have the opportunity to stop this dangerous trend! If you are interested in joining a team of Wikipedians to make sure Israel is presented fairly and accurately, please contact [the Hasbara Foundation] director."
> 
> zionists manipulating wiki - Google Search
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Man you're stupid. ANYONE is allowed to edit wikipedia. Not to mention pro Palestinians here use it all the time.
> The issue with you is that you cannot handle the truth, so you always make bullshit excuses. It's the pro Palestinians way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know I am the smartest poster you have come up against, that's what drives you crazy, I make you look like a fool. I just present facts with backup, like the Hasbara initiative to edit WIKI.
> 
> 
> "Zionist editing' on Wikipedia"
> 
> Advertisement
> 
> "Wikipedia Editing for Zionists"
> 
> http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/wikipedia-editing-for-zionists/
Click to expand...


"You know I am the smartest poster you have come up against"

       

Stop it just stop !! Hahahahahahaha ! Don't flater yourself brainwashed sheep


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm, Wiki Zionist tainted material as opposed to source documents.  Well done Phoney, you really know how to make a point. Now let's get the facts from the Report of the Mandatory:
> 
> As can be seen below in the table included in His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations of 1937, Muslim increase via migration was 25,168 during the period Jewish increase through migration was 245,433.
> 
> "6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> You are just making a fool of yourself.  Facts are facts.  Lying or using tainted backup  like you do is easily discovered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so now wikipedia is a Zionist source hahha. You have a pathetic excuse for everything
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a glutton for punishment:
> 
> " two Israeli groups seeking to gain the upper hand in the online debate have launched a course in "Zionist editing" for Wikipedia, the online reference site.
> 
> Yesha Council, representing the Jewish settler movement, and the rightwing Israel Sheli (My I srael) movement, ran their first workshop this week in Jerusalem, teaching participants how to rewrite and revise some of the most hotly disputed pages of the online reference site."
> 
> Wikipedia editing courses launched by Zionist groups World news The Guardian
> 
> "This example demonstrates how good articles full of useful information are systematically edited to remove material from reputable sources (if it does not suit the Zionist aims) and add information from other, often dubious sources. No matter what the topic, the Israeli version must come first and there are constant problems trying to maintain neutral tone and avoid weasel words."
> 
> https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Wikipedia's_Hasbara
> 
> "*u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit*
> 
> 
> 
> US Dept of Justice IP address blocked after 'vandalism' edits to Wikipediaexcerpt:Wikinews has learned that a United States Department of Justice (DOJ) IP Address has been blocked on Wikipedia after making edits to an article which were considered "vandalism". In two separate instances, the IP address from the DOJ removed information from the Wikipedia article about the organization Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA), regarding an attempt by the organization to secretly gain influence on the site. The IP address has been confirmed by Wikinews to be registered and used by the DOJ located in Washington, D.C."
> 
> we saw that... u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit....2013
> 
> 
> 
> Embedded media from this media site is no longer available
> 
> 
> "Troll editing on Wikipedia has been linked directly to such quasi-Israeli government entities as the media "watchdog" operation "CAMERA," or Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America." CAMERA, formed in 1982 by a group of Jewish activists in Boston tied to the Israeli government, has been the bane of many a newspaper editor or television news reporter. The group had a vendetta against ABC's Peter Jennings and the formerly rather unbiased National Public Radio for their even-handed Middle East reporting. At least five Wikipedia editors were found to be trolling for CAMERA and they were suspended. However, the rules governing Wikipedia permit many other CAMERA and pro-Israel trolls to operate with impunity.
> 
> Outside the CAMERA infrastructure, other Israeli groups also troll Wikipedia. Special Wikipedia editing classes have been sponsored on illegal settlements in the West Bank by the organizations Yesha Council and Israel Sheli. CAMERA's efforts were joined by the Hasbara Foundation (Hasbara is the term used for any Jew around the world who advances the propaganda of Israel). In 2007, the Hasbara Foundation, decrying the presence of unbiased information on Israel on Wikipedia, targeted certain editors' entries. The Hasbara Foundation claimed, "These authors have systematically yet subtly rewritten key passages of thousands of Wikipedia entries to portray Israel in a negative light. You have the opportunity to stop this dangerous trend! If you are interested in joining a team of Wikipedians to make sure Israel is presented fairly and accurately, please contact [the Hasbara Foundation] director."
> 
> zionists manipulating wiki - Google Search
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Man you're stupid. ANYONE is allowed to edit wikipedia. Not to mention pro Palestinians here use it all the time.
> The issue with you is that you cannot handle the truth, so you always make bullshit excuses. It's the pro Palestinians way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know I am the smartest poster you have come up against, that's what drives you crazy, I make you look like a fool. I just present facts with backup, like the Hasbara initiative to edit WIKI.
> 
> 
> "Zionist editing' on Wikipedia"
> 
> Advertisement
> 
> "Wikipedia Editing for Zionists"
> 
> http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/wikipedia-editing-for-zionists/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "You know I am the smartest poster you have come up against"
> 
> 
> 
> Stop it just stop !! Hahahahahahaha ! Don't flater yourself brainwashed sheep
Click to expand...



Lot's of bravado, do you think it impresses anyone?  It makes you look even more foolish than usual. LOL


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so now wikipedia is a Zionist source hahha. You have a pathetic excuse for everything
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're a glutton for punishment:
> 
> " two Israeli groups seeking to gain the upper hand in the online debate have launched a course in "Zionist editing" for Wikipedia, the online reference site.
> 
> Yesha Council, representing the Jewish settler movement, and the rightwing Israel Sheli (My I srael) movement, ran their first workshop this week in Jerusalem, teaching participants how to rewrite and revise some of the most hotly disputed pages of the online reference site."
> 
> Wikipedia editing courses launched by Zionist groups World news The Guardian
> 
> "This example demonstrates how good articles full of useful information are systematically edited to remove material from reputable sources (if it does not suit the Zionist aims) and add information from other, often dubious sources. No matter what the topic, the Israeli version must come first and there are constant problems trying to maintain neutral tone and avoid weasel words."
> 
> https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Wikipedia's_Hasbara
> 
> "*u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit*
> 
> 
> 
> US Dept of Justice IP address blocked after 'vandalism' edits to Wikipediaexcerpt:Wikinews has learned that a United States Department of Justice (DOJ) IP Address has been blocked on Wikipedia after making edits to an article which were considered "vandalism". In two separate instances, the IP address from the DOJ removed information from the Wikipedia article about the organization Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA), regarding an attempt by the organization to secretly gain influence on the site. The IP address has been confirmed by Wikinews to be registered and used by the DOJ located in Washington, D.C."
> 
> we saw that... u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit....2013
> 
> 
> 
> Embedded media from this media site is no longer available
> 
> 
> "Troll editing on Wikipedia has been linked directly to such quasi-Israeli government entities as the media "watchdog" operation "CAMERA," or Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America." CAMERA, formed in 1982 by a group of Jewish activists in Boston tied to the Israeli government, has been the bane of many a newspaper editor or television news reporter. The group had a vendetta against ABC's Peter Jennings and the formerly rather unbiased National Public Radio for their even-handed Middle East reporting. At least five Wikipedia editors were found to be trolling for CAMERA and they were suspended. However, the rules governing Wikipedia permit many other CAMERA and pro-Israel trolls to operate with impunity.
> 
> Outside the CAMERA infrastructure, other Israeli groups also troll Wikipedia. Special Wikipedia editing classes have been sponsored on illegal settlements in the West Bank by the organizations Yesha Council and Israel Sheli. CAMERA's efforts were joined by the Hasbara Foundation (Hasbara is the term used for any Jew around the world who advances the propaganda of Israel). In 2007, the Hasbara Foundation, decrying the presence of unbiased information on Israel on Wikipedia, targeted certain editors' entries. The Hasbara Foundation claimed, "These authors have systematically yet subtly rewritten key passages of thousands of Wikipedia entries to portray Israel in a negative light. You have the opportunity to stop this dangerous trend! If you are interested in joining a team of Wikipedians to make sure Israel is presented fairly and accurately, please contact [the Hasbara Foundation] director."
> 
> zionists manipulating wiki - Google Search
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Man you're stupid. ANYONE is allowed to edit wikipedia. Not to mention pro Palestinians here use it all the time.
> The issue with you is that you cannot handle the truth, so you always make bullshit excuses. It's the pro Palestinians way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know I am the smartest poster you have come up against, that's what drives you crazy, I make you look like a fool. I just present facts with backup, like the Hasbara initiative to edit WIKI.
> 
> 
> "Zionist editing' on Wikipedia"
> 
> Advertisement
> 
> "Wikipedia Editing for Zionists"
> 
> http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/wikipedia-editing-for-zionists/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "You know I am the smartest poster you have come up against"
> 
> 
> 
> Stop it just stop !! Hahahahahahaha ! Don't flater yourself brainwashed sheep
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Lot's of bravado, do you think it impresses anyone?  It makes you look even more foolish than usual. LOL
Click to expand...


You think too highly of yourself.


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're a glutton for punishment:
> 
> " two Israeli groups seeking to gain the upper hand in the online debate have launched a course in "Zionist editing" for Wikipedia, the online reference site.
> 
> Yesha Council, representing the Jewish settler movement, and the rightwing Israel Sheli (My I srael) movement, ran their first workshop this week in Jerusalem, teaching participants how to rewrite and revise some of the most hotly disputed pages of the online reference site."
> 
> Wikipedia editing courses launched by Zionist groups World news The Guardian
> 
> "This example demonstrates how good articles full of useful information are systematically edited to remove material from reputable sources (if it does not suit the Zionist aims) and add information from other, often dubious sources. No matter what the topic, the Israeli version must come first and there are constant problems trying to maintain neutral tone and avoid weasel words."
> 
> https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Wikipedia's_Hasbara
> 
> "*u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit*
> 
> 
> 
> US Dept of Justice IP address blocked after 'vandalism' edits to Wikipediaexcerpt:Wikinews has learned that a United States Department of Justice (DOJ) IP Address has been blocked on Wikipedia after making edits to an article which were considered "vandalism". In two separate instances, the IP address from the DOJ removed information from the Wikipedia article about the organization Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA), regarding an attempt by the organization to secretly gain influence on the site. The IP address has been confirmed by Wikinews to be registered and used by the DOJ located in Washington, D.C."
> 
> we saw that... u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit....2013
> 
> 
> 
> Embedded media from this media site is no longer available
> 
> 
> "Troll editing on Wikipedia has been linked directly to such quasi-Israeli government entities as the media "watchdog" operation "CAMERA," or Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America." CAMERA, formed in 1982 by a group of Jewish activists in Boston tied to the Israeli government, has been the bane of many a newspaper editor or television news reporter. The group had a vendetta against ABC's Peter Jennings and the formerly rather unbiased National Public Radio for their even-handed Middle East reporting. At least five Wikipedia editors were found to be trolling for CAMERA and they were suspended. However, the rules governing Wikipedia permit many other CAMERA and pro-Israel trolls to operate with impunity.
> 
> Outside the CAMERA infrastructure, other Israeli groups also troll Wikipedia. Special Wikipedia editing classes have been sponsored on illegal settlements in the West Bank by the organizations Yesha Council and Israel Sheli. CAMERA's efforts were joined by the Hasbara Foundation (Hasbara is the term used for any Jew around the world who advances the propaganda of Israel). In 2007, the Hasbara Foundation, decrying the presence of unbiased information on Israel on Wikipedia, targeted certain editors' entries. The Hasbara Foundation claimed, "These authors have systematically yet subtly rewritten key passages of thousands of Wikipedia entries to portray Israel in a negative light. You have the opportunity to stop this dangerous trend! If you are interested in joining a team of Wikipedians to make sure Israel is presented fairly and accurately, please contact [the Hasbara Foundation] director."
> 
> zionists manipulating wiki - Google Search
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man you're stupid. ANYONE is allowed to edit wikipedia. Not to mention pro Palestinians here use it all the time.
> The issue with you is that you cannot handle the truth, so you always make bullshit excuses. It's the pro Palestinians way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know I am the smartest poster you have come up against, that's what drives you crazy, I make you look like a fool. I just present facts with backup, like the Hasbara initiative to edit WIKI.
> 
> 
> "Zionist editing' on Wikipedia"
> 
> Advertisement
> 
> "Wikipedia Editing for Zionists"
> 
> http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/wikipedia-editing-for-zionists/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "You know I am the smartest poster you have come up against"
> 
> 
> 
> Stop it just stop !! Hahahahahahaha ! Don't flater yourself brainwashed sheep
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Lot's of bravado, do you think it impresses anyone?  It makes you look even more foolish than usual. LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You think too highly of yourself.
Click to expand...


Even a one-eyed man is King in the Valley of the Blind.


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know I am the smartest poster you have come up against, that's what drives you crazy, I make you look like a fool. I just present facts with backup, like the Hasbara initiative to edit WIKI.
> 
> 
> 
> It's the best joke, so far, after the one about those major arab settlers, who got to be saudi sheiks to own(!) 90%(!) of the mandate palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, you mean the data reported by the British from the Mandate Land Registries in the 1946 Survey of Palestine prepared for the UN?  Well let's see them again. Oh dear what a come down after believing the propaganda LOL   View attachment 32708
Click to expand...

Where is it written that those major arab settlers and squatters from their respective vaterlands got to be saudi sheiks to own(!) 90%(!) of the mandate palestine? Where?! Dammit! Proof!


----------



## montelatici

The land registry doesn't lie.  You can whine and stamp your feet like a baby all you want.  The facts are clear. Let's see it again, read it and weep. By the way, why would the British lie?

Arabs owned more than 90%.


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> The land registry doesn't lie.  You can whine and stamp your feet like a baby all you want.  The facts are clear. Let's see it again, read it and weep. By the way, why would the British lie?


Why wouldn't the brits lie?


montelatici said:


> Arabs owned more than 90%. View attachment 32713


Where is it written that those major arab settlers and squatters from their respective vaterlands got to be saudi sheiks to own(!) 90%(!) of the mandate palestine? Where?! Dammit! Proof!


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sooner the Palestinians run-up the White Flag of surrender, the sooner the healing can begin.
> 
> The Palestinians are the losers in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and, of course, the Losers in a war do not dictate the terms of peace.
> 
> That's not arrogance... that's the way the Real World works.
> 
> 
> 
> They will never surrender or bow to the Israeli boot...
> 
> Read the History of all previous Western footholds in this Sea of Islam...Time is their Weapon along with constant pressure and small fires...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How nice for you.
> 
> Bad for the Palestinians, though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are the least of Israel's problems in the long-term if a peace deal is not reached.
Click to expand...

Within living memory, the Israelis have been assaulted, on multiple occasions, by the combined military might of Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon, with logistics, financial and personnel support from other neighboring Muslim-Arab countries, under circumstances where those adversaries were armed with state-of-the-art Soviet weaponry.

Most sane Muslims - those sane enough to rule, anyway - know that the Israelis (1) want nothing more than to complete their own modest Reconquista and (2) will be peaceful neighbors after the Reconquista if left alone and (3) will kick their asses again if they go to war with her again.

And, given that (a) most neighboring Muslim countries have been shaken-up enough so that it will be years or decades before they can threaten Israel again militarily and (b) The West will be going to war to suppress ISIS-ISIL in the not-too-distant future, I seriously doubt that Israel has anything substantive to worry about from the Arab world anytime soon.

Planned Annexations and Pacification continue apace.


----------



## montelatici

You have been


Kondor3 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sooner the Palestinians run-up the White Flag of surrender, the sooner the healing can begin.
> 
> The Palestinians are the losers in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and, of course, the Losers in a war do not dictate the terms of peace.
> 
> That's not arrogance... that's the way the Real World works.
> 
> 
> 
> They will never surrender or bow to the Israeli boot...
> 
> Read the History of all previous Western footholds in this Sea of Islam...Time is their Weapon along with constant pressure and small fires...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How nice for you.
> 
> Bad for the Palestinians, though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are the least of Israel's problems in the long-term if a peace deal is not reached.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Within living memory, the Israelis have been assaulted, on multiple occasions, by the combined military might of Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon, with logistics, financial and personnel support from other neighboring Muslim-Arab countries, under circumstances where those adversaries were armed with state-of-the-art Soviet weaponry.
> 
> Most sane Muslims - those sane enough to rule, anyway - know that the Israelis (1) want nothing more than to complete their own modest Reconquista and (2) will be peaceful neighbors after the Reconquista if left alone and (3) will kick their asses again if they go to war with her again.
> 
> And, given that (a) most neighboring Muslim countries have been shaken-up enough so that it will be years or decades before they can threaten Israel again militarily and (b) The West will be going to war to suppress ISIS-ISIL in the not-too-distant future, I seriously doubt that Israel has anything substantive to worry about from the Arab world anytime soon.
> 
> Planned Annexations and Pacification continue apace.
Click to expand...



Demographics will determine the end game, as it always does.


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> You have been
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sooner the Palestinians run-up the White Flag of surrender, the sooner the healing can begin.
> 
> The Palestinians are the losers in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and, of course, the Losers in a war do not dictate the terms of peace.
> 
> That's not arrogance... that's the way the Real World works.
> 
> 
> 
> They will never surrender or bow to the Israeli boot...
> 
> Read the History of all previous Western footholds in this Sea of Islam...Time is their Weapon along with constant pressure and small fires...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How nice for you.
> 
> Bad for the Palestinians, though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are the least of Israel's problems in the long-term if a peace deal is not reached.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Within living memory, the Israelis have been assaulted, on multiple occasions, by the combined military might of Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon, with logistics, financial and personnel support from other neighboring Muslim-Arab countries, under circumstances where those adversaries were armed with state-of-the-art Soviet weaponry.
> 
> Most sane Muslims - those sane enough to rule, anyway - know that the Israelis (1) want nothing more than to complete their own modest Reconquista and (2) will be peaceful neighbors after the Reconquista if left alone and (3) will kick their asses again if they go to war with her again.
> 
> And, given that (a) most neighboring Muslim countries have been shaken-up enough so that it will be years or decades before they can threaten Israel again militarily and (b) The West will be going to war to suppress ISIS-ISIL in the not-too-distant future, I seriously doubt that Israel has anything substantive to worry about from the Arab world anytime soon.
> 
> Planned Annexations and Pacification continue apace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Demographics will determine the end game, as it always does.
Click to expand...

Right up until the time that the Israelis _*change*_ the demographics by expelling the troublemakers to points lying outside their borders.


----------



## Hossfly

montelatici said:


> You have been
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sooner the Palestinians run-up the White Flag of surrender, the sooner the healing can begin.
> 
> The Palestinians are the losers in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and, of course, the Losers in a war do not dictate the terms of peace.
> 
> That's not arrogance... that's the way the Real World works.
> 
> 
> 
> They will never surrender or bow to the Israeli boot...
> 
> Read the History of all previous Western footholds in this Sea of Islam...Time is their Weapon along with constant pressure and small fires...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How nice for you.
> 
> Bad for the Palestinians, though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are the least of Israel's problems in the long-term if a peace deal is not reached.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Within living memory, the Israelis have been assaulted, on multiple occasions, by the combined military might of Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon, with logistics, financial and personnel support from other neighboring Muslim-Arab countries, under circumstances where those adversaries were armed with state-of-the-art Soviet weaponry.
> 
> Most sane Muslims - those sane enough to rule, anyway - know that the Israelis (1) want nothing more than to complete their own modest Reconquista and (2) will be peaceful neighbors after the Reconquista if left alone and (3) will kick their asses again if they go to war with her again.
> 
> And, given that (a) most neighboring Muslim countries have been shaken-up enough so that it will be years or decades before they can threaten Israel again militarily and (b) The West will be going to war to suppress ISIS-ISIL in the not-too-distant future, I seriously doubt that Israel has anything substantive to worry about from the Arab world anytime soon.
> 
> Planned Annexations and Pacification continue apace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Demographics will determine the end game, as it always does.
Click to expand...

Then you had better hope the bastards don't have any misfires or missed opportunities.


----------



## pbel

Kondor3 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sooner the Palestinians run-up the White Flag of surrender, the sooner the healing can begin.
> 
> The Palestinians are the losers in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and, of course, the Losers in a war do not dictate the terms of peace.
> 
> That's not arrogance... that's the way the Real World works.
> 
> 
> 
> They will never surrender or bow to the Israeli boot...
> 
> Read the History of all previous Western footholds in this Sea of Islam...Time is their Weapon along with constant pressure and small fires...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How nice for you.
> 
> Bad for the Palestinians, though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are the least of Israel's problems in the long-term if a peace deal is not reached.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Within living memory, the Israelis have been assaulted, on multiple occasions, by the combined military might of Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon, with logistics, financial and personnel support from other neighboring Muslim-Arab countries, under circumstances where those adversaries were armed with state-of-the-art Soviet weaponry.
> 
> Most sane Muslims - those sane enough to rule, anyway - know that the Israelis (1) want nothing more than to complete their own modest Reconquista and (2) will be peaceful neighbors after the Reconquista if left alone and (3) will kick their asses again if they go to war with her again.
> 
> And, given that (a) most neighboring Muslim countries have been shaken-up enough so that it will be years or decades before they can threaten Israel again militarily and (b) The West will be going to war to suppress ISIS-ISIL in the not-too-distant future, I seriously doubt that Israel has anything substantive to worry about from the Arab world anytime soon.
> 
> Planned Annexations and Pacification continue apace.
Click to expand...

You just don't get it...It may take hundreds of years...Israel will never pacify the region even if they succeed in killing all the Palestinians.


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sooner the Palestinians run-up the White Flag of surrender, the sooner the healing can begin.
> 
> The Palestinians are the losers in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and, of course, the Losers in a war do not dictate the terms of peace.
> 
> That's not arrogance... that's the way the Real World works.
> 
> 
> 
> They will never surrender or bow to the Israeli boot...
> 
> Read the History of all previous Western footholds in this Sea of Islam...Time is their Weapon along with constant pressure and small fires...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How nice for you.
> 
> Bad for the Palestinians, though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are the least of Israel's problems in the long-term if a peace deal is not reached.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Within living memory, the Israelis have been assaulted, on multiple occasions, by the combined military might of Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon, with logistics, financial and personnel support from other neighboring Muslim-Arab countries, under circumstances where those adversaries were armed with state-of-the-art Soviet weaponry.
> 
> Most sane Muslims - those sane enough to rule, anyway - know that the Israelis (1) want nothing more than to complete their own modest Reconquista and (2) will be peaceful neighbors after the Reconquista if left alone and (3) will kick their asses again if they go to war with her again.
> 
> And, given that (a) most neighboring Muslim countries have been shaken-up enough so that it will be years or decades before they can threaten Israel again militarily and (b) The West will be going to war to suppress ISIS-ISIL in the not-too-distant future, I seriously doubt that Israel has anything substantive to worry about from the Arab world anytime soon.
> 
> Planned Annexations and Pacification continue apace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You just don't get it...It may take hundreds of years...Israel will never pacify the region even if they succeed in killing all the Palestinians.
Click to expand...

Oh, I get it.

I just think your prognosis is wrong.

The Jews do not have to pacify the region.

They just need to complete their own far more modest Reconquista.

See below.






An outcome that is 80-90% realized already - not much further to go now.

Once completed, and once the dust settles, things will be quiet there for centuries.

The world - and even much of the nearby Arab world - will breath a sigh of relief.

And the world gets to move on with far more important business.


----------



## montelatici

Kondor3 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have been
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> They will never surrender or bow to the Israeli boot...
> 
> Read the History of all previous Western footholds in this Sea of Islam...Time is their Weapon along with constant pressure and small fires...
> 
> 
> 
> How nice for you.
> 
> Bad for the Palestinians, though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are the least of Israel's problems in the long-term if a peace deal is not reached.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Within living memory, the Israelis have been assaulted, on multiple occasions, by the combined military might of Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon, with logistics, financial and personnel support from other neighboring Muslim-Arab countries, under circumstances where those adversaries were armed with state-of-the-art Soviet weaponry.
> 
> Most sane Muslims - those sane enough to rule, anyway - know that the Israelis (1) want nothing more than to complete their own modest Reconquista and (2) will be peaceful neighbors after the Reconquista if left alone and (3) will kick their asses again if they go to war with her again.
> 
> And, given that (a) most neighboring Muslim countries have been shaken-up enough so that it will be years or decades before they can threaten Israel again militarily and (b) The West will be going to war to suppress ISIS-ISIL in the not-too-distant future, I seriously doubt that Israel has anything substantive to worry about from the Arab world anytime soon.
> 
> Planned Annexations and Pacification continue apace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Demographics will determine the end game, as it always does.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right up until the time that the Israelis _*change*_ the demographics by expelling the troublemakers to points lying outside their borders.
Click to expand...


They got away with ethnic cleansing once, they won't again.


----------



## montelatici

Kondor3 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> They will never surrender or bow to the Israeli boot...
> 
> Read the History of all previous Western footholds in this Sea of Islam...Time is their Weapon along with constant pressure and small fires...
> 
> 
> 
> How nice for you.
> 
> Bad for the Palestinians, though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are the least of Israel's problems in the long-term if a peace deal is not reached.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Within living memory, the Israelis have been assaulted, on multiple occasions, by the combined military might of Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon, with logistics, financial and personnel support from other neighboring Muslim-Arab countries, under circumstances where those adversaries were armed with state-of-the-art Soviet weaponry.
> 
> Most sane Muslims - those sane enough to rule, anyway - know that the Israelis (1) want nothing more than to complete their own modest Reconquista and (2) will be peaceful neighbors after the Reconquista if left alone and (3) will kick their asses again if they go to war with her again.
> 
> And, given that (a) most neighboring Muslim countries have been shaken-up enough so that it will be years or decades before they can threaten Israel again militarily and (b) The West will be going to war to suppress ISIS-ISIL in the not-too-distant future, I seriously doubt that Israel has anything substantive to worry about from the Arab world anytime soon.
> 
> Planned Annexations and Pacification continue apace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You just don't get it...It may take hundreds of years...Israel will never pacify the region even if they succeed in killing all the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, I get it.
> 
> I just think your prognosis is wrong.
> 
> The Jews do not have to pacify the region.
> 
> They just need to complete their own far more modest Reconquista.
> 
> See below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An outcome that is 80-90% realized already - not much further to go now.
> 
> Once completed, and once the dust settles, things will be quiet there for centuries.
> 
> The world - and even much of the nearby Arab world - will breath a sigh of relief.
> 
> And the world gets to move on with far more important business.
Click to expand...


Why are you posting propaganda when that specific propaganda has already been debunked?

Let's repeat, note how the Emir went from Amman Trans-Jordania to Palestine. And, how the Palestine administration would travel to Trans-Jordania. Always making fools of yourselves posting propaganda.

"I paid a visit to Amman on April 18th as the guest of the Emir and explained in an address to the sheikhs and notables the arrangement that had been made. *The Emir came to Palestine again in the month of May.* The political and technical officers of the Palestine Administration have *made frequent visits to Trans-Jordania *and have assisted the local officials with their advice. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921


----------



## MaryL

I am sick of Muslim atrocities, and all the excuses. Islam, and the Arab world, attacked the US on 9/11. I have a inkling of why the Israelis just can't get along with these assh*les. You try and all it does is enable them to  hurt you further, and it seems like a death spiral that Muslims enjoy, like  they where nihilists with a death wish. There isn't any fair way to deal with that mentality, but to end them, or die trying. Islam seems to be a dark hate filled form of nihilism, not a religion.


----------



## pbel

Kondor3 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> They will never surrender or bow to the Israeli boot...
> 
> Read the History of all previous Western footholds in this Sea of Islam...Time is their Weapon along with constant pressure and small fires...
> 
> 
> 
> How nice for you.
> 
> Bad for the Palestinians, though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are the least of Israel's problems in the long-term if a peace deal is not reached.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Within living memory, the Israelis have been assaulted, on multiple occasions, by the combined military might of Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon, with logistics, financial and personnel support from other neighboring Muslim-Arab countries, under circumstances where those adversaries were armed with state-of-the-art Soviet weaponry.
> 
> Most sane Muslims - those sane enough to rule, anyway - know that the Israelis (1) want nothing more than to complete their own modest Reconquista and (2) will be peaceful neighbors after the Reconquista if left alone and (3) will kick their asses again if they go to war with her again.
> 
> And, given that (a) most neighboring Muslim countries have been shaken-up enough so that it will be years or decades before they can threaten Israel again militarily and (b) The West will be going to war to suppress ISIS-ISIL in the not-too-distant future, I seriously doubt that Israel has anything substantive to worry about from the Arab world anytime soon.
> 
> Planned Annexations and Pacification continue apace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You just don't get it...It may take hundreds of years...Israel will never pacify the region even if they succeed in killing all the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, I get it.
> 
> I just think your prognosis is wrong.
> 
> The Jews do not have to pacify the region.
> 
> They just need to complete their own far more modest Reconquista.
> 
> See below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An outcome that is 80-90% realized already - not much further to go now.
> 
> Once completed, and once the dust settles, things will be quiet there for centuries.
> 
> The world - and even much of the nearby Arab world - will breath a sigh of relief.
> 
> And the world gets to move on with far more important business.
Click to expand...

With a hundred thirty nine expulsions thus far, their tactics are not conducive to long-term survival...Maybe sharing might work.


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How nice for you.
> 
> Bad for the Palestinians, though.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are the least of Israel's problems in the long-term if a peace deal is not reached.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Within living memory, the Israelis have been assaulted, on multiple occasions, by the combined military might of Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon, with logistics, financial and personnel support from other neighboring Muslim-Arab countries, under circumstances where those adversaries were armed with state-of-the-art Soviet weaponry.
> 
> Most sane Muslims - those sane enough to rule, anyway - know that the Israelis (1) want nothing more than to complete their own modest Reconquista and (2) will be peaceful neighbors after the Reconquista if left alone and (3) will kick their asses again if they go to war with her again.
> 
> And, given that (a) most neighboring Muslim countries have been shaken-up enough so that it will be years or decades before they can threaten Israel again militarily and (b) The West will be going to war to suppress ISIS-ISIL in the not-too-distant future, I seriously doubt that Israel has anything substantive to worry about from the Arab world anytime soon.
> 
> Planned Annexations and Pacification continue apace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You just don't get it...It may take hundreds of years...Israel will never pacify the region even if they succeed in killing all the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, I get it.
> 
> I just think your prognosis is wrong.
> 
> The Jews do not have to pacify the region.
> 
> They just need to complete their own far more modest Reconquista.
> 
> See below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An outcome that is 80-90% realized already - not much further to go now.
> 
> Once completed, and once the dust settles, things will be quiet there for centuries.
> 
> The world - and even much of the nearby Arab world - will breath a sigh of relief.
> 
> And the world gets to move on with far more important business.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> With a hundred thirty nine expulsions thus far, their tactics are not conducive to long-term survival...Maybe sharing might work.
Click to expand...

Expulsion, when it comes, will deal in incremental hundreds of thousands, not the chump-change you're referring to here.

Backed by a massive, overwhelming show of military force.

The Jews tried sharing off-and-on for much of the first half-century after Independence, and it does not work in their case, thanks to Palestinian intransigence.

When something stands in the way of your long-term survival, and when you have the strength to push that obstacle out of the way or to destroy it, you are eventually going to end-up doing one or the other.

The Israelis are far too humane to destroy the Palestinians outright, except as a last resort in extremis.

That leaves pushing them out of the way.


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have been
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How nice for you.
> 
> Bad for the Palestinians, though.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are the least of Israel's problems in the long-term if a peace deal is not reached.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Within living memory, the Israelis have been assaulted, on multiple occasions, by the combined military might of Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon, with logistics, financial and personnel support from other neighboring Muslim-Arab countries, under circumstances where those adversaries were armed with state-of-the-art Soviet weaponry.
> 
> Most sane Muslims - those sane enough to rule, anyway - know that the Israelis (1) want nothing more than to complete their own modest Reconquista and (2) will be peaceful neighbors after the Reconquista if left alone and (3) will kick their asses again if they go to war with her again.
> 
> And, given that (a) most neighboring Muslim countries have been shaken-up enough so that it will be years or decades before they can threaten Israel again militarily and (b) The West will be going to war to suppress ISIS-ISIL in the not-too-distant future, I seriously doubt that Israel has anything substantive to worry about from the Arab world anytime soon.
> 
> Planned Annexations and Pacification continue apace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Demographics will determine the end game, as it always does.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right up until the time that the Israelis _*change*_ the demographics by expelling the troublemakers to points lying outside their borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They got away with ethnic cleansing once, they won't again.
Click to expand...

Who's going to stop them?


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> Demographics will determine the end game, as it always does.


And then palistanians wil overbreed their habitat, and will want to expand their lebensraum, and will start a new armed conflict, of course.


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> Arabs owned more than 90%.


Our honorable montelatici may keep telling himself that, of course.


----------



## Phoenall

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about detailing these alleged pre conditions that are not enshrined in UN resolutions and the UN charter. Things like stopping all violence, terrorism and belligerence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They aren't "alleged" pre-conditions.
> 
> They are pre-conditions each side as set as a pre-requisite to entering into peace negotiations.
> 
> I've already detailed them in a prior post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then list them and not just link to an ambiguous site
> 
> The Palestinians always demand the following before they will talk about anything with Israel
> 
> Return to pre 1967 borders ( meaning the partition plan borders that are indefensible )
> 
> Right of return for every Palestinian who claims they lived in Israel and reparations for their losses.
> 
> Withdrawal of all post Zionist Jews from all the lands of Palestine ( including Israel )
> 
> Ceasing the building of settlements on Jewish owned land
> 
> Release of all convicted Palestinian terrorists
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hardly a detailed list of pre conditions are they, more a list of already agreed points under the Oslo Accords.
> 
> As for recognition if Arafat could state Israel was a Jewish state why cant the Palestinian negotiators.
> 
> Then we come to the  defence of Israel that asks only that the Palestinians give up all violence, terrorism and belligerence in accordance with the UN charters they have recently signed. Going on the Palestinians past performance with similar treaties Israel is right in not accepting their word on the matter and will keep the right to retaliate to Palestinian terrorism and violence.
> 
> So all in all not pre conditions but points of interest to be debated during the peace talks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Uh.  No.  They are pre-conditions - conditions demanded prior to any negotiations.
> 
> 
> *A one-sided end to violence*: Palestinians must prevent their extremists from committing acts of violence, but Israel can continue to not only attack Palestinian areas in the Gaza Strip with missiles, but they can also target Palestinians in the West Bank.
> 
> Palestinians *accept Israeli confiscations of West Bank land around East Jerusalem and accept the expansion of settlements in the West Bank - *Jerusalem  remains undivided.
> Palestinians must recognize Israel as a *Jewish State*.
Click to expand...





1  This is a part of every UN resolution dealing with the Palestinian question so is not a pre condition but a demand from the world at large. While the Palestinians are engaging in violence and terrorism Israel HAS THE LEGAL RIGHT TO RETALIATE IN ITS DEFENCE OF CIVILIANS

2   The have already agreed to this in the Oslo Accords 2 that details land in the west bank and Jerusalm that will be for Israeli settlements. And don't forget that it is the Palestinians that have taken Jerusalem illegally in 1948, so the Israelis have taken it back for everyone.

3   The UN declared that Israel was to be known and accepted as a Jewish state, just as Iraq,iran, Jordan, Syria and Pakistan amongst others are Islamic states. The PLO recognised Israel as a Jewish state and all Israel wants is for the P.A. to accept them as such.

But these are not pre conditions to sitting down and talking are they, but conditions that will be included in any talks about the futire of Israel and Palestine.  The Palestinian conditions are demands of what must be met before they will even contemplate any possibility of talks and are designed to bring all talks to a halt before they get of the ground.  Only the brainwashed cant see that the Palestinians don't want peace and put these obstacles in the way of talks every time.


----------



## Coyote

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> They aren't "alleged" pre-conditions.
> 
> They are pre-conditions each side as set as a pre-requisite to entering into peace negotiations.
> 
> I've already detailed them in a prior post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then list them and not just link to an ambiguous site
> 
> The Palestinians always demand the following before they will talk about anything with Israel
> 
> Return to pre 1967 borders ( meaning the partition plan borders that are indefensible )
> 
> Right of return for every Palestinian who claims they lived in Israel and reparations for their losses.
> 
> Withdrawal of all post Zionist Jews from all the lands of Palestine ( including Israel )
> 
> Ceasing the building of settlements on Jewish owned land
> 
> Release of all convicted Palestinian terrorists
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hardly a detailed list of pre conditions are they, more a list of already agreed points under the Oslo Accords.
> 
> As for recognition if Arafat could state Israel was a Jewish state why cant the Palestinian negotiators.
> 
> Then we come to the  defence of Israel that asks only that the Palestinians give up all violence, terrorism and belligerence in accordance with the UN charters they have recently signed. Going on the Palestinians past performance with similar treaties Israel is right in not accepting their word on the matter and will keep the right to retaliate to Palestinian terrorism and violence.
> 
> So all in all not pre conditions but points of interest to be debated during the peace talks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Uh.  No.  They are pre-conditions - conditions demanded prior to any negotiations.
> 
> 
> *A one-sided end to violence*: Palestinians must prevent their extremists from committing acts of violence, but Israel can continue to not only attack Palestinian areas in the Gaza Strip with missiles, but they can also target Palestinians in the West Bank.
> 
> Palestinians *accept Israeli confiscations of West Bank land around East Jerusalem and accept the expansion of settlements in the West Bank - *Jerusalem  remains undivided.
> Palestinians must recognize Israel as a *Jewish State*.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 1  This is a part of every UN resolution dealing with the Palestinian question so is not a pre condition but a demand from the world at large. While the Palestinians are engaging in violence and terrorism Israel *HAS THE LEGAL RIGHT TO RETALIATE IN ITS DEFENCE OF CIVILIANS*
Click to expand...


Of course they do.  On the other hand - there is nothing to *stop Israel *from continuing to target Palestinians in the WB and Gaza *even if the Palestinians have halted all rocket fire.*  Do you see the difference? 

It is being set as a *pre-condition* - it is stated up front as a pre-condition.  It's no different than the Palestinian demand to freeze settlement building.  The demand that Israel cease settlement building is a demand from the world at large and has been the subject of multiple UN resolutions- so why do you call that a "pre-condition" then?



> 2   The have already agreed to this in the Oslo Accords 2 that *details land in the west bank and Jerusalm that will be for Israeli settlements*. And don't forget that it is the Palestinians that have taken Jerusalem illegally in 1948, so the Israelis have taken it back for everyone.



The Oslo II Accords: West Bank Areas in the Oslo II Accord - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Settlement violations of Oslo Accords 2: Israel Continues to Build and Expand Its Illegal Colonies

Settlement Violations of the Fourth Geneva Convention: Israel s Violations of the Oslo Agreements
_The Fourth Geneva Convention, ratified by Israel in June 1951 and which was not superceded by the Oslo Agreements, prohibits Israel from establishing colonies in the Occupied Palestinian Territories. Article 49 (6) of the Fourth Geneva Convention states “The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.” The Oslo Agreements reaffirm this position. Article 31 of the Interim Agreement provides that “the two parties view the West Bank and Gaza Strip as a single territorial unit, the integrity and status of which will be preserved during the interim period.” Article 31 also provides that “neither side shall initiate or take any step that will change the status of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip pending the outcome of the permanent status negotiations.”

Despite these articles and in violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention, Israel has since 1993:_​



_Doubled the number of settlers living in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. There are now approximately 400,000;[2]
_
_Increased the number of illegal housing units in the Occupied Palestinian Territories (excluding Occupied East Jerusalem) by 62%;[3]
_
_Confiscated more than 60,000 acres of Palestinian land for colony construction and related by-pass roads, uprooted 220,000 trees and demolished 690 homes in the West Bank alone; [4] and
_
_Removed from official government maps the Green Line separating Israel from the Occupied Palestinian Territories, thereby failing to recognize the Occupied Palestinian Territories as a “single territorial unit”. (See official Touring Map of Israel issued by the Israeli Ministry of Tourism)._



International Law and Israeli Settlements: International law and Israeli settlements - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

_The international community considers the establishment of Israeli settlements in the Israeli-occupied territories illegal under international law,[1][2][3][4][5] however Israel maintains that they are consistent with international law[6] because it does not agree that the Fourth Geneva Convention applies to the territories occupied in the 1967 Six-Day War.[7] *The United Nations Security Council, the United Nations General Assembly, the International Committee of the Red Cross, the International Court of Justice and the High Contracting Parties to the Convention have all affirmed that the Fourth Geneva Convention does apply*.[8][9]

*Numerous UN resolutions have stated that the building and existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights are a violation of international law, including UN Security Council resolutions in 1979 and 1980.*[10][11][12] UN Security Council Resolution 446 refers to the Fourth Geneva Convention as the applicable international legal instrument, and calls upon Israel to desist from transferring its own population into the territories or changing their demographic makeup. The reconvened Conference of the High Contracting Parties to the Geneva Conventions has declared the settlements illegal[13] as has the primary judicial organ of the UN, the International Court of Justice[14] and the International Committee of the Red Cross.

The position of successive Israeli governments is that all authorized settlements are entirely legal and consistent with international law,[15] despite Israel's armistice agreements having all being with High Contracting Parties.[16] In practice, Israel does not accept that the Fourth Geneva Convention applies de jure, but has stated that on humanitarian issues it will govern itself de facto by its provisions, without specifying which these are.[17][18] The majority of legal scholars hold the settlements to violate international law, while others have offered dissenting views supporting the Israeli position.[2]_​
So...why is it you call a demand to "cease settlement building" a "pre-condition" then - if we follow the same logic you use to portray Israel's "pre-conditions" as "not pre-conditions"?



> 3   *The UN declared that Israel was to be known and accepted as a Jewish state, just as Iraq,iran, Jordan, Syria and Pakistan amongst others are Islamic states*. The PLO recognised Israel as a Jewish state and all Israel wants is for the P.A. to accept them as such.



Have those states demanded that other nations recognize them formally as "Islamic States" or as Iraq, Iran, etc?  Israel can call it what itself whatever it wants.  It can't force others to do so.  For years the demand was to recognize Israel and it's right to exist.  That's a reasonable demand.

And, if you are going to conveniently use the UN to bolster your argument that these are not "pre-conditions" (which they are)....then the cessation of settlement construction can't be considered a "pre-condition" either.




> But *these are not pre conditions to sitting down and talking* are they, but conditions that will be included in any talks about the futire of Israel and Palestine.  The Palestinian conditions are demands of what must be met before they will even contemplate any possibility of talks and are designed to bring all talks to a halt before they get of the ground.  Only the brainwashed cant see that the Palestinians don't want peace and put these obstacles in the way of talks every time.



Pre-conditions are pre-conditions whether it's for initiating talks or for negotiating peace.  It amounts to the same thing in the end -* the pre-condtions must be accepted in order for the talks to result in anything*.   How can you say Netanahu really wants peace given that?   Israeli Preconditions for Peace


----------



## montelatici

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs owned more than 90%.
> 
> 
> 
> Our honorable montelatici may keep telling himself that, of course.
Click to expand...


Fact:


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs owned more than 90%.
> 
> 
> 
> Our honorable montelatici may keep telling himself that, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fact:
Click to expand...

Our honorable montelatici may keep telling himself that too, of course.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Coyote,  _et al,_
> 
> What are the pre-conditions?
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again.  What does this have to do with the false claim that Israel had no preconditions?
> 
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATION)*
> 
> *Netanyahu Reiterates Israeli Preconditions For “Peace”*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monday October 28, 2013 05:42
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by Saed Bannoura -
> [Sunday October 27, 2013] Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, stated that Tel Aviv is seeking peace with the Palestinians, but reiterated Israeli preconditions and demands to recognize Israel as a Jewish State, and drop the internationally guaranteed Right of Return of the Palestinian Refugees.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Is there such a thing as an "internationally guaranteed Right of Return of the Palestinian Refugees?"  And if so, what does that guarantee say?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

_Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

*2. Reaffirms also the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;*

3. _Emphasizes_ that full respect for and the realization of these inalienable rights of the Palestinian people are indispensable for the solution of the question of Palestine;

4. _Recognizes_ that the Palestinian people is a principal party in the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East;

5. _Further recognizes_ the right of the Palestinian people to regain its rights by all means in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations;

A RES 3236 XXIX of 22 November 1974


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Got links?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's in the post you quoted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't see the highlighted text
> 
> "*So, Israel was allowed to determine it's own destiny, fought the WARS like I mentioned earlier in the thread, won the land. "*
> 
> in your link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's wrong with what he said ? It's completely true. You should know this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then there should be no problem to provide a link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Got links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's in the post you quoted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't see the highlighted text
> 
> "*So, Israel was allowed to determine it's own destiny, fought the WARS like I mentioned earlier in the thread, won the land. "*
> 
> in your link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's wrong with what he said ? It's completely true. You should know this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then there should be no problem to provide a link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's the point of providing a link for you? You're till going to deny it and claim you're right.
> 
> But here you go ( I cannot believe you didn't know this):
> 
> 1948 Arab Israeli War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Territorial
> changesIsrael keeps area allotted to it byPartition Plan, *captures 50% of area allotted to Arab state*
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]
Click to expand...

I don't refute that but there needs to be some documentation showing that Israel gets to keep the land it captured militarily.

It is illegal to keep land captured in war.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's in the post you quoted.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't see the highlighted text
> 
> "*So, Israel was allowed to determine it's own destiny, fought the WARS like I mentioned earlier in the thread, won the land. "*
> 
> in your link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's wrong with what he said ? It's completely true. You should know this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then there should be no problem to provide a link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's in the post you quoted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't see the highlighted text
> 
> "*So, Israel was allowed to determine it's own destiny, fought the WARS like I mentioned earlier in the thread, won the land. "*
> 
> in your link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's wrong with what he said ? It's completely true. You should know this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then there should be no problem to provide a link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's the point of providing a link for you? You're till going to deny it and claim you're right.
> 
> But here you go ( I cannot believe you didn't know this):
> 
> 1948 Arab Israeli War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Territorial
> changesIsrael keeps area allotted to it byPartition Plan, *captures 50% of area allotted to Arab state*
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't refute that but there needs to be some documentation showing that Israel gets to keep the land it captured militarily.
> 
> It is illegal to keep land captured in war.
Click to expand...


Who says there needs to be documentation? They captured land ALLOTTED to the Palestinian in the partition plan. It doesn't say they captured Palestinian Territory. 
That land is now inside the green line and inside Israel's internationally recognized borders. Recognized by the U.N AND the P.A .


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote,  _et al,_
> 
> What are the pre-conditions?
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again.  What does this have to do with the false claim that Israel had no preconditions?
> 
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATION)*
> 
> *Netanyahu Reiterates Israeli Preconditions For “Peace”*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monday October 28, 2013 05:42
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by Saed Bannoura -
> [Sunday October 27, 2013] Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, stated that Tel Aviv is seeking peace with the Palestinians, but reiterated Israeli preconditions and demands to recognize Israel as a Jewish State, and drop the internationally guaranteed Right of Return of the Palestinian Refugees.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Is there such a thing as an "internationally guaranteed Right of Return of the Palestinian Refugees?"  And if so, what does that guarantee say?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> *2. Reaffirms also the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;*
> 
> 3. _Emphasizes_ that full respect for and the realization of these inalienable rights of the Palestinian people are indispensable for the solution of the question of Palestine;
> 
> 4. _Recognizes_ that the Palestinian people is a principal party in the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East;
> 
> 5. _Further recognizes_ the right of the Palestinian people to regain its rights by all means in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations;
> 
> A RES 3236 XXIX of 22 November 1974
Click to expand...


That't not a guarantee. Israel will never allow ROR. It's just not going to happen.


----------



## teddyearp

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> zionists manipulating wiki - Google Search
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man you're stupid. ANYONE is allowed to edit wikipedia. Not to mention pro Palestinians here use it all the time.
> The issue with you is that you cannot handle the truth, so you always make bullshit excuses. It's the pro Palestinians way
Click to expand...


I wish folks here could learn how to cut down the length of the quotes . . . . .  like me, because I know I am sooo awesome, LOL.

But seriously, like toastman says, anyone is allowed to edit wikipedia.  When any thinking person reads an article there, it only takes a moment to see how impartial it is.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> Nothing is ever as simple as you present it.  It is a Arab Palestinian imperative that they downplay or disavow the Partition Plan; otherwise they loose a great deal of their validity in the armed struggle stance they have taken.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is the Propaganda version. We have all heard the story a gazillion times.
> 
> The UN voted to partition Palestine. The Jews accepted their state. The Arabs rejected their state. Too bad for them.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes!
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are some problems with this scenario as it leaves out important information.
> 
> The UN did approve the partition of Palestine, however, Resolution 181 was a non binding General Assembly resolution that *recommended* that the Security Council implement the partition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> General Assembly Resolution 181(II) was --- in fact --- non-binding, as are all resolutions simply pasted by the General Assembly.
> 
> However, it was not merely a recommendation.  The recommendation was passed to the General Assembly by the UN Special Commission on Palestine (UNSCOP).  And that recommendation was adopted by the General Assembly.
> 
> The instructions in the resolution were that the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC) was to be created and be the action arm for the Security Council in the implementation process.  That did happen.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Britain, as the mandate, refused to implement the plan because it was not approved by both sides. The Security Council failed to implement the plan voicing the same concerns. The US withdrew its support and was drafting an alternate plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Without regard to what the US might have done or what position the UK might have taken, the UNPC did act and did set the stage for the creation of the Jewish State of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PALESTINE COMMISSION ADJOURNS SINE DIE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. *In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented.*"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Section B. STEPS PREPARATORY TO INDEPENDENCE  General Assembly Resolution 181(II) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14. The Commission shall be guided in its activities by the recommendations of the General Assembly and by such instructions as the Security Council may consider necessary to issue.
> 
> *The measures taken by the Commission, within the recommendations of the General Assembly, shall become immediately effective unless the Commission has previously received contrary instructions from the Security Council.*
> 
> The Commission shall render periodic monthly progress reports, or more frequently if desirable, to the Security Council.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ A/RES/181(II) 29 November 1947
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _*SOURCE:  *_PAL/169 17 May 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Resolution 181 was not implemented. No states were authorized or created. The land allotted for the Jewish state was never transferred.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No matter how you frame it, the Resolution was "implemented." and it was acknowledged.  There is no such thing as a transfer of land or property in the establishment of sovereignty.  This is a fictitious assumption.  Sovereignty is a right and evidenced by an overt act on the part of the people exercising that right.  It is not, as you suggest, a real estate venture involving deeds and transfers.
> 
> The implementation was a reality.  A war was fought over it.  Armistice lines drawn, treaties concluded, and a state that everyone can point to today, was created; economically prosperous, thriving, and one that can stand alone --- on its own.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Resolution 181 didn't happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I recommend you take your blinders off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Letter dated 25 March 1999 from the Permanent Observer of Palestine to the United Nations addressed to the Secretary-General[U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ][/U]For the Palestinian side, and since the strategic decision to forge a peace on the basis of coexistence, resolution 181 (II) has become acceptable. The resolution provides the legal basis for the existence of both the Jewish and the Arab States in Mandated Palestine. According to the resolution, Jerusalem should become a _corpus separatum_, which the Palestinian side is willing to take into consideration and to reconcile with the Palestinian position that East Jerusalem is part of the Palestinian territory and the capital of the Palestinian State. *The Palestinian side adheres to international legitimacy and respects General Assembly resolution 181 (II),* as well as Security Council resolution 242 (1967), the implementation of which is the aim of the current Middle East peace process.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT Palestinian Declaration of Independence said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Despite the historical injustice done to the Palestinian Arab people in its displacement and in being deprived of the right to self-determination following the adoption of *General Assembly resolution 181 (II) of 1947, which partitioned Palestine into an Arab and a Jewish State, that resolution nevertheless continues to attach conditions to international legitimacy* that guarantee the Palestinian Arab people the right to sovereignty and national independence.
> 
> ----     ----     ----
> 
> By virtue of the natural, historical and legal right of the Palestinian Arab people to its homeland, Palestine, and of the sacrifices of its succeeding generations in defence of the freedom and independence of that homeland,
> 
> Pursuant to the resolutions of the Arab Summit Conferences and *on the basis of the international legitimacy embodied in the resolutions of the United Nations since 1947*, and
> 
> Through the exercise by the Palestinian Arab people of its right to self-determination, political independence and sovereignty over its territory:
> 
> The Palestine National Council hereby declares, in the Name of God and on behalf of the Palestinian Arab people, the establishment of the State of Palestine in the land of Palestine with its capital at Jerusalem.
> _*SOURCE:*_ A/43/827  S/20278  18 November 1988
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _*SOURCE: *_ A/53/879  S/1999/334  25 March 1999
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As recent as December 2012, the Resolution was remembered by the UN in the *6*7/19. Status of Palestine in the United Nations, which --- _recalling_ its resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947, _decided_ to accord to Palestine non-member observer State status in the United Nations.
> 
> You can claim, all you want, that the Resolution didn't happen, doesn't exist, is non-binding, has no impact, was never implemented --- all you want.  The fact of the matter is --- in reality --- those that are not irreparably harmed and blinded by the by the need to continually justify Jihad and violence, can plainly see that it did exist, it had both documentary form, deed and action behind it.  It was used by both the Jewish and the Palestinian to make legitimate their states.  It is use still in contemporary times to advance the cause of Palestinian recognition.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

WOW, verbosity extraordinaire.

Even with all that you failed to mention a few points.

By the time Israel mentioned the partition plan in its declaration:

It had already violated the proposed borders.

It had already violated territory allotted to the Arabs.

It had already violated the international city of Jerusalem.

It had already violated the rights of the non Jewish population by expelling about 300,000 Palestinians from their homes.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> Nothing is ever as simple as you present it.  It is a Arab Palestinian imperative that they downplay or disavow the Partition Plan; otherwise they loose a great deal of their validity in the armed struggle stance they have taken.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is the Propaganda version. We have all heard the story a gazillion times.
> 
> The UN voted to partition Palestine. The Jews accepted their state. The Arabs rejected their state. Too bad for them.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes!
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are some problems with this scenario as it leaves out important information.
> 
> The UN did approve the partition of Palestine, however, Resolution 181 was a non binding General Assembly resolution that *recommended* that the Security Council implement the partition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> General Assembly Resolution 181(II) was --- in fact --- non-binding, as are all resolutions simply pasted by the General Assembly.
> 
> However, it was not merely a recommendation.  The recommendation was passed to the General Assembly by the UN Special Commission on Palestine (UNSCOP).  And that recommendation was adopted by the General Assembly.
> 
> The instructions in the resolution were that the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC) was to be created and be the action arm for the Security Council in the implementation process.  That did happen.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Britain, as the mandate, refused to implement the plan because it was not approved by both sides. The Security Council failed to implement the plan voicing the same concerns. The US withdrew its support and was drafting an alternate plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Without regard to what the US might have done or what position the UK might have taken, the UNPC did act and did set the stage for the creation of the Jewish State of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PALESTINE COMMISSION ADJOURNS SINE DIE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. *In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented.*"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Section B. STEPS PREPARATORY TO INDEPENDENCE  General Assembly Resolution 181(II) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14. The Commission shall be guided in its activities by the recommendations of the General Assembly and by such instructions as the Security Council may consider necessary to issue.
> 
> *The measures taken by the Commission, within the recommendations of the General Assembly, shall become immediately effective unless the Commission has previously received contrary instructions from the Security Council.*
> 
> The Commission shall render periodic monthly progress reports, or more frequently if desirable, to the Security Council.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ A/RES/181(II) 29 November 1947
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _*SOURCE:  *_PAL/169 17 May 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Resolution 181 was not implemented. No states were authorized or created. The land allotted for the Jewish state was never transferred.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No matter how you frame it, the Resolution was "implemented." and it was acknowledged.  There is no such thing as a transfer of land or property in the establishment of sovereignty.  This is a fictitious assumption.  Sovereignty is a right and evidenced by an overt act on the part of the people exercising that right.  It is not, as you suggest, a real estate venture involving deeds and transfers.
> 
> The implementation was a reality.  A war was fought over it.  Armistice lines drawn, treaties concluded, and a state that everyone can point to today, was created; economically prosperous, thriving, and one that can stand alone --- on its own.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Resolution 181 didn't happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I recommend you take your blinders off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Letter dated 25 March 1999 from the Permanent Observer of Palestine to the United Nations addressed to the Secretary-General[U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ][/U]For the Palestinian side, and since the strategic decision to forge a peace on the basis of coexistence, resolution 181 (II) has become acceptable. The resolution provides the legal basis for the existence of both the Jewish and the Arab States in Mandated Palestine. According to the resolution, Jerusalem should become a _corpus separatum_, which the Palestinian side is willing to take into consideration and to reconcile with the Palestinian position that East Jerusalem is part of the Palestinian territory and the capital of the Palestinian State. *The Palestinian side adheres to international legitimacy and respects General Assembly resolution 181 (II),* as well as Security Council resolution 242 (1967), the implementation of which is the aim of the current Middle East peace process.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT Palestinian Declaration of Independence said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Despite the historical injustice done to the Palestinian Arab people in its displacement and in being deprived of the right to self-determination following the adoption of *General Assembly resolution 181 (II) of 1947, which partitioned Palestine into an Arab and a Jewish State, that resolution nevertheless continues to attach conditions to international legitimacy* that guarantee the Palestinian Arab people the right to sovereignty and national independence.
> 
> ----     ----     ----
> 
> By virtue of the natural, historical and legal right of the Palestinian Arab people to its homeland, Palestine, and of the sacrifices of its succeeding generations in defence of the freedom and independence of that homeland,
> 
> Pursuant to the resolutions of the Arab Summit Conferences and *on the basis of the international legitimacy embodied in the resolutions of the United Nations since 1947*, and
> 
> Through the exercise by the Palestinian Arab people of its right to self-determination, political independence and sovereignty over its territory:
> 
> The Palestine National Council hereby declares, in the Name of God and on behalf of the Palestinian Arab people, the establishment of the State of Palestine in the land of Palestine with its capital at Jerusalem.
> _*SOURCE:*_ A/43/827  S/20278  18 November 1988
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _*SOURCE: *_ A/53/879  S/1999/334  25 March 1999
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As recent as December 2012, the Resolution was remembered by the UN in the *6*7/19. Status of Palestine in the United Nations, which --- _recalling_ its resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947, _decided_ to accord to Palestine non-member observer State status in the United Nations.
> 
> You can claim, all you want, that the Resolution didn't happen, doesn't exist, is non-binding, has no impact, was never implemented --- all you want.  The fact of the matter is --- in reality --- those that are not irreparably harmed and blinded by the by the need to continually justify Jihad and violence, can plainly see that it did exist, it had both documentary form, deed and action behind it.  It was used by both the Jewish and the Palestinian to make legitimate their states.  It is use still in contemporary times to advance the cause of Palestinian recognition.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WOW, verbosity extraordinaire.
> 
> Even with all that you failed to mention a few points.
> 
> By the time Israel mentioned the partition plan in its declaration:
> 
> It had already violated the proposed borders.
> 
> It had already violated territory allotted to the Arabs.
> 
> It had already violated the international city of Jerusalem.
> 
> It had already violated the rights of the non Jewish population by expelling about 300,000 Palestinians from their homes.
Click to expand...

You'll be saddened to know that the Pope has forgiven the Israelis all those indiscressions, Tinny. Go find another bone to gnaw on.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

This is an important concept --- one that needs to be read and understood correctly.



P F Tinmore said:


> 2. _Reaffirms also_ the inalienable right of the* Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, *and calls for their return;
> A RES 3236 XXIX of 22 November 1974


*(COMMENT)*

There are four key factors here:

Palestinians ---
Their homes and property ---
displaced and uprooted ---
return ---
This does not apply to descendants.  Only those that were displaced and uprooted.  That is a considerably different set of people.  It is a number of less than 80,000; all of which are 60 years old (or more).

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs owned more than 90%.
> 
> 
> 
> Our honorable montelatici may keep telling himself that, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fact:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Our honorable montelatici may keep telling himself that too, of course.
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> This is an important concept --- one that needs to be read and understood correctly.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 2. _Reaffirms also_ the inalienable right of the* Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, *and calls for their return;
> A RES 3236 XXIX of 22 November 1974
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There are four key factors here:
> 
> Palestinians ---
> Their homes and property ---
> displaced and uprooted ---
> return ---
> This does not apply to descendants.  Only those that were displaced and uprooted.  That is a considerably different set of people.  It is a number of less than 80,000; all of which are 60 years old (or more).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I am sure it extends to their families Rocco, quit playing silly games.


----------



## teddyearp

montelatici said:


> You know I am the smartest poster you have come up against<snip>



That is very debatable, but not the subject of this thread.




montelatici said:


> "Zionist editing' on Wikipedia"
> 
> Advertisement
> 
> "Wikipedia Editing for Zionists"
> 
> http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/wikipedia-editing-for-zionists/



Blah, blah, blah.  You already posted this in #608.  Double post if you ask me.


----------



## teddyearp

montelatici said:


> View attachment 32708



Well that looks to me like the Jews at the time are paying more in property tax than any other.  So now what's your point?


----------



## Hossfly

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm, Wiki Zionist tainted material as opposed to source documents.  Well done Phoney, you really know how to make a point. Now let's get the facts from the Report of the Mandatory:
> 
> As can be seen below in the table included in His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations of 1937, Muslim increase via migration was 25,168 during the period Jewish increase through migration was 245,433.
> 
> "6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> You are just making a fool of yourself.  Facts are facts.  Lying or using tainted backup  like you do is easily discovered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so now wikipedia is a Zionist source hahha. You have a pathetic excuse for everything
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a glutton for punishment:
> 
> " two Israeli groups seeking to gain the upper hand in the online debate have launched a course in "Zionist editing" for Wikipedia, the online reference site.
> 
> Yesha Council, representing the Jewish settler movement, and the rightwing Israel Sheli (My I srael) movement, ran their first workshop this week in Jerusalem, teaching participants how to rewrite and revise some of the most hotly disputed pages of the online reference site."
> 
> Wikipedia editing courses launched by Zionist groups World news The Guardian
> 
> "This example demonstrates how good articles full of useful information are systematically edited to remove material from reputable sources (if it does not suit the Zionist aims) and add information from other, often dubious sources. No matter what the topic, the Israeli version must come first and there are constant problems trying to maintain neutral tone and avoid weasel words."
> 
> https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Wikipedia's_Hasbara
> 
> "*u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit*
> 
> 
> 
> US Dept of Justice IP address blocked after 'vandalism' edits to Wikipediaexcerpt:Wikinews has learned that a United States Department of Justice (DOJ) IP Address has been blocked on Wikipedia after making edits to an article which were considered "vandalism". In two separate instances, the IP address from the DOJ removed information from the Wikipedia article about the organization Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA), regarding an attempt by the organization to secretly gain influence on the site. The IP address has been confirmed by Wikinews to be registered and used by the DOJ located in Washington, D.C."
> 
> we saw that... u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit....2013
> 
> 
> 
> Embedded media from this media site is no longer available
> 
> 
> "Troll editing on Wikipedia has been linked directly to such quasi-Israeli government entities as the media "watchdog" operation "CAMERA," or Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America." CAMERA, formed in 1982 by a group of Jewish activists in Boston tied to the Israeli government, has been the bane of many a newspaper editor or television news reporter. The group had a vendetta against ABC's Peter Jennings and the formerly rather unbiased National Public Radio for their even-handed Middle East reporting. At least five Wikipedia editors were found to be trolling for CAMERA and they were suspended. However, the rules governing Wikipedia permit many other CAMERA and pro-Israel trolls to operate with impunity.
> 
> Outside the CAMERA infrastructure, other Israeli groups also troll Wikipedia. Special Wikipedia editing classes have been sponsored on illegal settlements in the West Bank by the organizations Yesha Council and Israel Sheli. CAMERA's efforts were joined by the Hasbara Foundation (Hasbara is the term used for any Jew around the world who advances the propaganda of Israel). In 2007, the Hasbara Foundation, decrying the presence of unbiased information on Israel on Wikipedia, targeted certain editors' entries. The Hasbara Foundation claimed, "These authors have systematically yet subtly rewritten key passages of thousands of Wikipedia entries to portray Israel in a negative light. You have the opportunity to stop this dangerous trend! If you are interested in joining a team of Wikipedians to make sure Israel is presented fairly and accurately, please contact [the Hasbara Foundation] director."
> 
> zionists manipulating wiki - Google Search
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Man you're stupid. ANYONE is allowed to edit wikipedia. Not to mention pro Palestinians here use it all the time.
> The issue with you is that you cannot handle the truth, so you always make bullshit excuses. It's the pro Palestinians way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know I am the smartest poster you have come up against, that's what drives you crazy, I make you look like a fool. I just present facts with backup, like the Hasbara initiative to edit WIKI.
> 
> 
> "Zionist editing' on Wikipedia"
> 
> Advertisement
> 
> "Wikipedia Editing for Zionists"
> 
> http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/wikipedia-editing-for-zionists/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "You know I am the smartest poster you have come up against"
> 
> 
> 
> Stop it just stop !! Hahahahahahaha ! Don't flater yourself brainwashed sheep
Click to expand...

Fo schizzle!  Faith and begorrah!


----------



## teddyearp

montelatici said:


> The land registry doesn't lie.  You can whine and stamp your feet like a baby all you want.  The facts are clear. Let's see it again, read it and weep. By the way, why would the British lie?
> 
> Arabs owned more than 90%.
> 
> View attachment 32713



But the Jews paid more in taxes.  Read that and weep, dog.


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici,  _et al,_

I'm not so hasty to agree with you.



montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs owned more than 90%.
> 
> 
> 
> Our honorable montelatici may keep telling himself that, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fact:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Our honorable montelatici may keep telling himself that too, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> This is an important concept --- one that needs to be read and understood correctly.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 2. _Reaffirms also_ the inalienable right of the* Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, *and calls for their return;
> A RES 3236 XXIX of 22 November 1974
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There are four key factors here:
> 
> Palestinians ---
> Their homes and property ---
> displaced and uprooted ---
> return ---
> This does not apply to descendants.  Only those that were displaced and uprooted.  That is a considerably different set of people.  It is a number of less than 80,000; all of which are 60 years old (or more).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am sure it extends to their families Rocco, quit playing silly games.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I don't consider it a silly game at all.

Only those family members that were displaced and uprooted.  If you are born outside the State of Israel, you are not a Palestinian Refugee; you are a Palestinian Citizen.  Refugee status doesn't grow and is not an inherited status.  The only people that think that are Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## teddyearp

pbel said:


> You just don't get it...It may take hundreds of years...Israel will never pacify the region even if they succeed in killing all the Palestinians.



You just don't get it.  Israel doesn't want to pacify (or should I say conquer because that is where your ilk goes with that) the whole middle east (if that is what you meant), they just want peace in what was little was left to the Jews of the original Mandate for Palestine.


----------



## montelatici

teddyearp said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 32708
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that looks to me like the Jews at the time are paying more in property tax than any other.  So now what's your point?
Click to expand...


That the Christians and Muslims owned 90% of the land, as the table depicts.


----------



## teddyearp

montelatici said:


> Fact:
> 
> View attachment 32733



Keep telling that story Sara/Monti.  Must be nice to be getting paid to post here(?)

You've posted that image at least three times here, and every time I have quoted it I have and again will reply:

Your own post shows who was paying more taxes back then.


----------



## montelatici

teddyearp said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> You just don't get it...It may take hundreds of years...Israel will never pacify the region even if they succeed in killing all the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You just don't get it.  Israel doesn't want to pacify the whole middle east (if that is what you meant), they just want peace in what was little was left to the Jews of the original Mandate for Palestine.
Click to expand...


To have peace the Jews in Palestine have two choices.  Agree to the establishment of a secular democracy where all the people of Palestine have equal rights, or return to where their parents, grand parents and great grand parents came from.  The demographics are not conducive to exclusive Jewish rule or Apartheid for the long term.  If a Jewish state had been established in a part of Germany, for example, they would be part of the EU and there would probably be few problems as the Germans would have little to complain about.


----------



## montelatici

teddyearp said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fact:
> 
> View attachment 32733
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep telling that story Sara/Monti.  Just be nice to be getting paid to post here(?)
> 
> You've posted that image at least three times here, and every time I have quoted it I have and again will reply:
> 
> Your own post shows who was paying more taxes back then.
Click to expand...


So what.  Urban land is taxed at a higher rate.


----------



## teddyearp

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> This is an important concept --- one that needs to be read and understood correctly.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 2. _Reaffirms also_ the inalienable right of the* Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, *and calls for their return;
> A RES 3236 XXIX of 22 November 1974
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There are four key factors here:
> 
> Palestinians ---
> Their homes and property ---
> displaced and uprooted ---
> return ---
> *This does not apply to descendants.  Only those that were displaced and uprooted.  That is a considerably different set of people.*  It is a number of less than 80,000; all of which are 60 years old (or more).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


And I would like to add to this.  When Israel declared its' independence, they did not exclude any of the inhabitants of the area; no, they were willing to include all.

It was the Arab league that encouraged those who did not want to live in the new State of Israel to leave with a promise that these "Jews" would be defeated and "pushed out to sea".  And there is the other side of this coin, called the "plan dalet".  Neither of these can be totally confirmed nor denied.


----------



## teddyearp

RoccoR said:


> <snip>Only those family members that were *displaced and uprooted.*  If you are born outside the State of Israel, you are not a Palestinian Refugee; you are a Palestinian Citizen.  Refugee status doesn't grow and is not an inherited status.  The only people that think that are Palestinians.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R



This is something I could buy into; and perhaps Israel as well . . . .  however, I would have to still want to know exactly what their reasoning was for them to become displaced and uprooted.  Meaning, was it the Arab League, or the 'plan dalet'?


----------



## teddyearp

montelatici said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 32708
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that looks to me like the Jews at the time are paying more in property tax than any other.  So now what's your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That the Christians and Muslims owned 90% of the land, as the table depicts.
Click to expand...


So why were the Jews paying more of the property taxes then?


----------



## teddyearp

montelatici said:


> To have peace the Jews in Palestine have two choices.  Agree to the establishment of a secular democracy where all the people of Palestine have equal rights, or return to where their parents, grand parents and great grand parents came from.  The demographics are not conducive to exclusive Jewish rule or Apartheid for the long term.  If a Jewish state had been established in a part of Germany, for example, they would be part of the EU and there would probably be few problems as the Germans would have little to complain about.



Honestly I wanted to break this down, but it is futile with you to waste such time and energy.  Let me just say this.

The Jews have established a democracy in Israel (whether secular or religious is another subject of great debate) and the Palestinians were invited and several of 'them' who did not leave Israel do participate.

Then you go back to the two worn out arguments of yours.  The European jews and apartheid. Both very worn out propaganda points from you.

But your last sentence shows what ignorance you have for history.  A Jewish state established in Germany?  Are you fucking kidding??  It was getting away from Germany that really drove home the need for the creation of the state of Israel in the first place.

You Sara are a cull.


----------



## teddyearp

montelatici said:


> So what.  Urban land is taxed at a higher rate.



Who cares? The Jews paid more in taxes.  But that is what you muslims want all along isn't it?


----------



## montelatici

teddyearp said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what.  Urban land is taxed at a higher rate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who cares? The Jews paid more in taxes.  But that is what you muslims want all along isn't it?
Click to expand...


Fine, so they owned less than 10% of the land and paid more taxes to the British.


----------



## teddyearp

montelatici said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what.  Urban land is taxed at a higher rate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who cares? The Jews paid more in taxes.  But that is what you muslims want all along isn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fine, so they owned less than 10% of the land and paid more taxes to the British.
Click to expand...


Yup.  Goes to show who contributed more money to the country.  The same who made more of it.


----------



## montelatici

teddyearp said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what.  Urban land is taxed at a higher rate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who cares? The Jews paid more in taxes.  But that is what you muslims want all along isn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fine, so they owned less than 10% of the land and paid more taxes to the British.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yup.  Goes to show who contributed more money to the country.  The same who made more of it.
Click to expand...


They contributed more to the British, the British made money on the Mandate, didn't you know?


----------



## RoccoR

teddyearp,  _et al,_

The problem here is, that the "refugee" concept doesn't actually consider the "why" behind the flight (displacement or uprooting); other then in very broad strokes (a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster).

The official international definition of a refugee is a long page of --- if, thens, and whereas' --- in Article I, Section "A" of the 1951 Convention; but does apply to events occurring before 1 January 1951. 



teddyearp said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip>Only those family members that were *displaced and uprooted.*  If you are born outside the State of Israel, you are not a Palestinian Refugee; you are a Palestinian Citizen.  Refugee status doesn't grow and is not an inherited status.  The only people that think that are Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> This is something I could buy into; and perhaps Israel as well . . . .  however, I would have to still want to know exactly what their reasoning was for them to become displaced and uprooted.  Meaning, was it the Arab League, or the 'plan dalet'?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

One of the problems with this definition is that a refugee --- being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.  It doesn't matter whether it was _(hypothetically)_ a result of "Arab League, or the 'plan dalet'" as you are considering.  So that is the drawback on the Israeli perspective.

On the other hand, every Arab Palestinian in the West Bank at the time the Jordanians Annexed the West Bank and were citizen of Jordan, "acquired a new nationality, and enjoyed the protection of the country [Jordan] of his new nationality."  [Article 1C(3) of the 1951 Convention, page 15]  Thus, since the Arab Palestinians exercised their "right of self-determination" --- participated in the Jordanian Parliament --- accepted the Annexation, and enjoyed Jordanian Citizenship, ceased to be Arab Palestinian Refugees from Israel, and for all intent and purposes, are Arab-Palestinian Refugees from Jordan for a short period of time.  Except that, in 1988, the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO), accepted by both the Arab League and the UN as the sole representative of the Palestinian People, declared independence.  Thus they accepted Palestinian Citizenship.

So, anyone who is a Citizen of the State of Palestine _(or any other country for that matter)_ is not a Refugee from the territory formerly under the Mandate of Palestine and considered part of the State of Israel today.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

RoccoR said:


> teddyearp,  _et al,_
> 
> The problem here is, that the "refugee" concept doesn't actually consider the "why" behind the flight (displacement or uprooting); other then in very broad strokes (a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster).
> 
> The official international definition of a refugee is a long page of --- if, thens, and whereas' --- in Article I, Section "A" of the 1951 Convention; but does apply to events occurring before 1 January 1951.
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip>Only those family members that were *displaced and uprooted.*  If you are born outside the State of Israel, you are not a Palestinian Refugee; you are a Palestinian Citizen.  Refugee status doesn't grow and is not an inherited status.  The only people that think that are Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> This is something I could buy into; and perhaps Israel as well . . . .  however, I would have to still want to know exactly what their reasoning was for them to become displaced and uprooted.  Meaning, was it the Arab League, or the 'plan dalet'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> One of the problems with this definition is that a refugee --- being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.  It doesn't matter whether it was _(hypothetically)_ a result of "Arab League, or the 'plan dalet'" as you are considering.  So that is the drawback on the Israeli perspective.
> 
> On the other hand, every Arab Palestinian in the West Bank at the time the Jordanians Annexed the West Bank and were citizen of Jordan, "acquired a new nationality, and enjoyed the protection of the country [Jordan] of his new nationality."  [Article 1C(3) of the 1951 Convention, page 15]  Thus, since the Arab Palestinians exercised their "right of self-determination" --- participated in the Jordanian Parliament --- accepted the Annexation, and enjoyed Jordanian Citizenship, ceased to be Arab Palestinian Refugees from Israel, and for all intent and purposes, are Arab-Palestinian Refugees from Jordan for a short period of time.  Except that, in 1988, the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO), accepted by both the Arab League and the UN as the sole representative of the Palestinian People, declared independence.  Thus they accepted Palestinian Citizenship.
> 
> So, anyone who is a Citizen of the State of Palestine _(or any other country for that matter)_ is not a Refugee from the territory formerly under the Mandate of Palestine and considered part of the State of Israel today.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Well, go to the UN and make that silly claim moron.


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici,  _et al,_

The UN set the definition that was approved by Convention.



montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp,  _et al,_
> 
> The problem here is, that the "refugee" concept doesn't actually consider the "why" behind the flight (displacement or uprooting); other then in very broad strokes (a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster).
> 
> The official international definition of a refugee is a long page of --- if, thens, and whereas' --- in Article I, Section "A" of the 1951 Convention; but does apply to events occurring before 1 January 1951.
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip>Only those family members that were *displaced and uprooted.*  If you are born outside the State of Israel, you are not a Palestinian Refugee; you are a Palestinian Citizen.  Refugee status doesn't grow and is not an inherited status.  The only people that think that are Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> This is something I could buy into; and perhaps Israel as well . . . .  however, I would have to still want to know exactly what their reasoning was for them to become displaced and uprooted.  Meaning, was it the Arab League, or the 'plan dalet'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> One of the problems with this definition is that a refugee --- being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.  It doesn't matter whether it was _(hypothetically)_ a result of "Arab League, or the 'plan dalet'" as you are considering.  So that is the drawback on the Israeli perspective.
> 
> On the other hand, every Arab Palestinian in the West Bank at the time the Jordanians Annexed the West Bank and were citizen of Jordan, "acquired a new nationality, and enjoyed the protection of the country [Jordan] of his new nationality."  [Article 1C(3) of the 1951 Convention, page 15]  Thus, since the Arab Palestinians exercised their "right of self-determination" --- participated in the Jordanian Parliament --- accepted the Annexation, and enjoyed Jordanian Citizenship, ceased to be Arab Palestinian Refugees from Israel, and for all intent and purposes, are Arab-Palestinian Refugees from Jordan for a short period of time.  Except that, in 1988, the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO), accepted by both the Arab League and the UN as the sole representative of the Palestinian People, declared independence.  Thus they accepted Palestinian Citizenship.
> 
> So, anyone who is a Citizen of the State of Palestine _(or any other country for that matter)_ is not a Refugee from the territory formerly under the Mandate of Palestine and considered part of the State of Israel today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, go to the UN and make that silly claim moron.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Are you saying that the Palestinians don't fit the Convention like every other refugee?  Are they so special --- with unique rights?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  _et al,_
> 
> The UN set the definition that was approved by Convention.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp,  _et al,_
> 
> The problem here is, that the "refugee" concept doesn't actually consider the "why" behind the flight (displacement or uprooting); other then in very broad strokes (a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster).
> 
> The official international definition of a refugee is a long page of --- if, thens, and whereas' --- in Article I, Section "A" of the 1951 Convention; but does apply to events occurring before 1 January 1951.
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip>Only those family members that were *displaced and uprooted.*  If you are born outside the State of Israel, you are not a Palestinian Refugee; you are a Palestinian Citizen.  Refugee status doesn't grow and is not an inherited status.  The only people that think that are Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> This is something I could buy into; and perhaps Israel as well . . . .  however, I would have to still want to know exactly what their reasoning was for them to become displaced and uprooted.  Meaning, was it the Arab League, or the 'plan dalet'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> One of the problems with this definition is that a refugee --- being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.  It doesn't matter whether it was _(hypothetically)_ a result of "Arab League, or the 'plan dalet'" as you are considering.  So that is the drawback on the Israeli perspective.
> 
> On the other hand, every Arab Palestinian in the West Bank at the time the Jordanians Annexed the West Bank and were citizen of Jordan, "acquired a new nationality, and enjoyed the protection of the country [Jordan] of his new nationality."  [Article 1C(3) of the 1951 Convention, page 15]  Thus, since the Arab Palestinians exercised their "right of self-determination" --- participated in the Jordanian Parliament --- accepted the Annexation, and enjoyed Jordanian Citizenship, ceased to be Arab Palestinian Refugees from Israel, and for all intent and purposes, are Arab-Palestinian Refugees from Jordan for a short period of time.  Except that, in 1988, the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO), accepted by both the Arab League and the UN as the sole representative of the Palestinian People, declared independence.  Thus they accepted Palestinian Citizenship.
> 
> So, anyone who is a Citizen of the State of Palestine _(or any other country for that matter)_ is not a Refugee from the territory formerly under the Mandate of Palestine and considered part of the State of Israel today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, go to the UN and make that silly claim moron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Are you saying that the Palestinians don't fit the Convention like every other refugee?  Are they so special --- with unique rights?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Well yes.  The UN recognized that they caused the refugee problem by giving Europeans a land inhabited by local people.  It is the only case where that happened up to that time.  And, has never happened since.


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici,  _et al,_

This is so wrong; yet so close.



montelatici said:


> Well yes.  The UN recognized that they caused the refugee problem by giving Europeans a land inhabited by local people.  It is the only case where that happened up to that time.  And, has never happened since.


*(COMMENT)*

They are not technically refugees --- in fact they are Palestinian Citizens. 

But there is one aspect that is very arguable in favor of the Arab Palestinians that were displaced; that being the matter of compensation for property lost.

I have mentioned this many times in previous commentaries; the matter of reparation, compensation, restitution, and civil claims.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

teddyearp said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip>Only those family members that were *displaced and uprooted.*  If you are born outside the State of Israel, you are not a Palestinian Refugee; you are a Palestinian Citizen.  Refugee status doesn't grow and is not an inherited status.  The only people that think that are Palestinians.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is something I could buy into; and perhaps Israel as well . . . .  however, I would have to still want to know exactly what their reasoning was for them to become displaced and uprooted.  Meaning, was it the Arab League, or the 'plan dalet'?
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't see the highlighted text
> 
> "*So, Israel was allowed to determine it's own destiny, fought the WARS like I mentioned earlier in the thread, won the land. "*
> 
> in your link.
> 
> 
> 
> What's wrong with what he said ? It's completely true. You should know this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then there should be no problem to provide a link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't see the highlighted text
> 
> "*So, Israel was allowed to determine it's own destiny, fought the WARS like I mentioned earlier in the thread, won the land. "*
> 
> in your link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's wrong with what he said ? It's completely true. You should know this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then there should be no problem to provide a link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's the point of providing a link for you? You're till going to deny it and claim you're right.
> 
> But here you go ( I cannot believe you didn't know this):
> 
> 1948 Arab Israeli War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Territorial
> changesIsrael keeps area allotted to it byPartition Plan, *captures 50% of area allotted to Arab state*
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't refute that but there needs to be some documentation showing that Israel gets to keep the land it captured militarily.
> 
> It is illegal to keep land captured in war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who says there needs to be documentation? They captured land ALLOTTED to the Palestinian in the partition plan. It doesn't say they captured Palestinian Territory.
> That land is now inside the green line and inside Israel's internationally recognized borders. Recognized by the U.N AND the P.A .
Click to expand...

Still ducking out on providing that link?

It is true. Allotted only means set aside for a purpose. The allotted land for the Jewish state and the Arab state were to be given to the respective states in the implementation of resolution 181 that didn't happen.

The Green Line is the international recognized *de facto* border. It is not a real border so it is Palestine on both sides.


----------



## MaryL

No, I will say this again and again, the world is tired of Muslim atrocities. Suicide bombers, using innocent people as shields. Islam may not be evil, but apparently it's believers don't know it's own beliefs, shame on these  people for accepting that. Shame on Islam for doing NOTHING  to stop evil people of it's own. WHY don't they do more? The world needs to ask this, why doesn't Islam do more to stop evil it's own ranks?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's wrong with what he said ? It's completely true. You should know this
> 
> 
> 
> Then there should be no problem to provide a link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's wrong with what he said ? It's completely true. You should know this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then there should be no problem to provide a link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's the point of providing a link for you? You're till going to deny it and claim you're right.
> 
> But here you go ( I cannot believe you didn't know this):
> 
> 1948 Arab Israeli War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Territorial
> changesIsrael keeps area allotted to it byPartition Plan, *captures 50% of area allotted to Arab state*
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't refute that but there needs to be some documentation showing that Israel gets to keep the land it captured militarily.
> 
> It is illegal to keep land captured in war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who says there needs to be documentation? They captured land ALLOTTED to the Palestinian in the partition plan. It doesn't say they captured Palestinian Territory.
> That land is now inside the green line and inside Israel's internationally recognized borders. Recognized by the U.N AND the P.A .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still ducking out on providing that link?
> 
> It is true. Allotted only means set aside for a purpose. The allotted land for the Jewish state and the Arab state were to be given to the respective states in the implementation of resolution 181 that didn't happen.
> 
> The Green Line is the international recognized *de facto* border. It is not a real border so it is Palestine on both sides.
Click to expand...

I gave you a link showing that Israel captured that territory . The fact that you asked for documentation is another 'Tinmore Pre requisite'


"It is Palestine on both sides" 

    

Keep telling yourself that. Everything inside the green line is Israels land. And Israel has internationally recognized boundaries with Egypt and Jordan. .
So, you're wrong. Again. For like the 500th time.

:


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, _et al,_

I disagree, this is not accurate; link or no link.



P F Tinmore said:


> Still ducking out on providing that link?
> 
> It is true. Allotted only means set aside for a purpose. The allotted land for the Jewish state and the Arab state were to be given to the respective states in the implementation of resolution 181 that didn't happen.
> 
> The Green Line is the international recognized *de facto* border. It is not a real border so it is Palestine on both sides.


*(COMMENT)*

Resolution 181(II) did happen and was "implemented" as evidenced in commentary Provided many times before; most recently in Post 550.  But the implementation, as originally envisioned, was very short lived _(overtaken by event of hostile external Arab/Arab Palestinian initiation)_ as a result of internal civil confrontations and then external foreign interference by five Arab Armies that entered the fray.  As an outcome of the military engagements between Israeli Forces opposed by invading Arab Armies, the Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA) was used as the Armistice Lines between the warring parties _(with a few minor adjustments)_.

There is a dispute today, in the smaller stretches of the original Armistice Lines, as to the _"de facto"_ border.   But make no mistake, there is a very clear and unambiguous boundary between the State of Israel and the State of Palestine.  It is clearly recognizable, and unmistakable when you come upon it.  It is not the case that it is Palestine on both sides, _(meaning there is no nation of Israel)_.  Palestine is now defined by the UN as that "sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967;" ---- and ---- "effective as of 15 December 1988, the designation "Palestine" should be used."

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

Tinmore, even the Palestinians used resolution 181 to declare independence. 

"The Declaration contains an overt acceptance that "the United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181, of 1947, which partitioned Palestine into two states [...] provides the legal basis for the right of the Palestinian Arab people to national sovereignty and independence."

November 15 1988 The Declaration of Independence of the State of Palestine


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then there should be no problem to provide a link.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then there should be no problem to provide a link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's the point of providing a link for you? You're till going to deny it and claim you're right.
> 
> But here you go ( I cannot believe you didn't know this):
> 
> 1948 Arab Israeli War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Territorial
> changesIsrael keeps area allotted to it byPartition Plan, *captures 50% of area allotted to Arab state*
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't refute that but there needs to be some documentation showing that Israel gets to keep the land it captured militarily.
> 
> It is illegal to keep land captured in war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who says there needs to be documentation? They captured land ALLOTTED to the Palestinian in the partition plan. It doesn't say they captured Palestinian Territory.
> That land is now inside the green line and inside Israel's internationally recognized borders. Recognized by the U.N AND the P.A .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still ducking out on providing that link?
> 
> It is true. Allotted only means set aside for a purpose. The allotted land for the Jewish state and the Arab state were to be given to the respective states in the implementation of resolution 181 that didn't happen.
> 
> The Green Line is the international recognized *de facto* border. It is not a real border so it is Palestine on both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I gave you a link showing that Israel captured that territory . The fact that you asked for documentation is another 'Tinmore Pre requisite'
> 
> 
> "It is Palestine on both sides"
> 
> 
> 
> Keep telling yourself that. Everything inside the green line is Israels land. And Israel has internationally recognized boundaries with Egypt and Jordan. .
> So, you're wrong. Again. For like the 500th time.
> 
> :
Click to expand...

If that is Israel's land why does it not have a border? Not even Israel recognized the green line as its border.

If that is Israel's land there should be documents showing when it acquired the land.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> Tinmore, even the Palestinians used resolution 181 to declare independence.
> 
> "The Declaration contains an overt acceptance that "the United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181, of 1947, which partitioned Palestine into two states [...] provides the legal basis for the right of the Palestinian Arab people to national sovereignty and independence."
> 
> November 15 1988 The Declaration of Independence of the State of Palestine


You can't say "the Palestinians" when it is only some who are around Ramallah.

They already had the right to national sovereignty and independence without the resolution.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, _et al,
_
The undisclosed intent behind the Arab League intervention was to disrupt the implementation of the Partition Plan, and for each neighboring Arab Nation to grab as much territory as they could for their own; using massacres as Deiryasseen as political cover.  



			
				The following telegram has been received today [4 MAY 1948 said:
			
		

> by Secretary-General Trygve Lie from King Abdullah Ibn Hussein of Transjordan:]
> 
> 
> "Secretary United Nations Organization Lake Success, N.Y.
> 
> "The calamities occuring in Palestine are beyond belief and after May the 15th will reach the pinnacle of horror. I deplore and reprobate the useless killing and attacks the one upon the other and vehemently protest against such unparalleled massacres as Deiryasseen, wherein the wombs of pregnant women were ripped open as the Jewish Agency confirmed to me by telegram but laid to the book of their dissident elements. I am nevertheless persuaded that the Jewish people as a whole desire to live in amity with the Arabs. Everything cries for intervention to halt this butchery. We now declare our readiness to give the Jews in Palestine full Arab nationality in a unitary State sharing all that we share while yet enjoying a special administration in particular areas. Thus will end the slaughter and the people will live in peace and security for ever.
> Abdullah Ibn Hussein."
> - See more at: Palestine question - Telegram from King Abdullah - Press release 4 May 1948




The Jordanians did seize the West Bank, and the Egyptians seized the Gaza Strip.  The Syrians and Lebanese were unable to secure any meaningful objectives.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  et al,

There is some truth here, but the interpretation is wrong.



P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore, even the Palestinians used resolution 181 to declare independence.
> 
> "The Declaration contains an overt acceptance that "the United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181, of 1947, which partitioned Palestine into two states [...] provides the legal basis for the right of the Palestinian Arab people to national sovereignty and independence."
> 
> November 15 1988 The Declaration of Independence of the State of Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> You can't say "the Palestinians" when it is only some who are around Ramallah.
> 
> They already had the right to national sovereignty and independence without the resolution.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The PLO (the sole representative of the Palestinians) declared independence.  This is recognized throughout the Arab World.

As for the "right to national sovereignty and independence:"  I have the right to own a "Pot of Gold" --- but I have to work for it.  Having a "right" and exercising that "right" are two different things.   The Arab Palestinian have been not been able to establish a country that can stand on its own for the last quarter of a century.  And don't blame Israel.  All it would have taken in 1988 was a Peace Treaty.  But no --- they couldn't even do that.  They could do it then and they can't do it now.  They couldn't even remain loyal to the King of Jordan; who was trying to protect them. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## pbel

teddyearp said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> zionists manipulating wiki - Google Search
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man you're stupid. ANYONE is allowed to edit wikipedia. Not to mention pro Palestinians here use it all the time.
> The issue with you is that you cannot handle the truth, so you always make bullshit excuses. It's the pro Palestinians way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wish folks here could learn how to cut down the length of the quotes . . . . .  like me, because I know I am sooo awesome, LOL.
> 
> But seriously, like toastman says, anyone is allowed to edit wikipedia.  When any thinking person reads an article there, it only takes a moment to see how impartial it is.
Click to expand...

What's your point? So anyone can Edit subject to verification of the veracity of the Facts by Wikipedia...Can you edit something for us with false information and let us see the result?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> There is some truth here, but the interpretation is wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore, even the Palestinians used resolution 181 to declare independence.
> 
> "The Declaration contains an overt acceptance that "the United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181, of 1947, which partitioned Palestine into two states [...] provides the legal basis for the right of the Palestinian Arab people to national sovereignty and independence."
> 
> November 15 1988 The Declaration of Independence of the State of Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> You can't say "the Palestinians" when it is only some who are around Ramallah.
> 
> They already had the right to national sovereignty and independence without the resolution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The PLO (the sole representative of the Palestinians) declared independence.  This is recognized throughout the Arab World.
> 
> As for the "right to national sovereignty and independence:"  I have the right to own a "Pot of Gold" --- but I have to work for it.  Having a "right" and exercising that "right" are two different things.   The Arab Palestinian have been not been able to establish a country that can stand on its own for the last quarter of a century.  And don't blame Israel.  All it would have taken in 1988 was a Peace Treaty.  But no --- they couldn't even do that.  They could do it then and they can't do it now.  They couldn't even remain loyal to the King of Jordan; who was trying to protect them.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

*"The Arab Palestinian have been not been able to establish a country that can stand on its own for the last quarter of a century."*

*Indeed, it is called illegal external interference.*


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's the point of providing a link for you? You're till going to deny it and claim you're right.
> 
> But here you go ( I cannot believe you didn't know this):
> 
> 1948 Arab Israeli War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Territorial
> changesIsrael keeps area allotted to it byPartition Plan, *captures 50% of area allotted to Arab state*
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]
> 
> 
> 
> I don't refute that but there needs to be some documentation showing that Israel gets to keep the land it captured militarily.
> 
> It is illegal to keep land captured in war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who says there needs to be documentation? They captured land ALLOTTED to the Palestinian in the partition plan. It doesn't say they captured Palestinian Territory.
> That land is now inside the green line and inside Israel's internationally recognized borders. Recognized by the U.N AND the P.A .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still ducking out on providing that link?
> 
> It is true. Allotted only means set aside for a purpose. The allotted land for the Jewish state and the Arab state were to be given to the respective states in the implementation of resolution 181 that didn't happen.
> 
> The Green Line is the international recognized *de facto* border. It is not a real border so it is Palestine on both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I gave you a link showing that Israel captured that territory . The fact that you asked for documentation is another 'Tinmore Pre requisite'
> 
> 
> "It is Palestine on both sides"
> 
> 
> 
> Keep telling yourself that. Everything inside the green line is Israels land. And Israel has internationally recognized boundaries with Egypt and Jordan. .
> So, you're wrong. Again. For like the 500th time.
> 
> :
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If that is Israel's land why does it not have a border? Not even Israel recognized the green line as its border.
> 
> If that is Israel's land there should be documents showing when it acquired the land.
Click to expand...


First off, Israel has internationally recognized borders with Egypt and Jordan. This is just a simple fact that you cannot deny:

*The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel in the recognized international boundary*

Peace Treaty between Israel and Egypt - Non-UN document 26 March 1979 

*The international boundary between Israel and Jordan*

A 50 73-S 1995 83 of 27 January 1995







If that is Israel's land there should be documents showing when it acquired the land

We've been through this many many many times. Acquiring land is a real estate issue and not related to this. The need for their to be documentation to show how Israel acquired land is a 'Tinmore Pre - requisite'


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> There is some truth here, but the interpretation is wrong.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore, even the Palestinians used resolution 181 to declare independence.
> "The Declaration contains an overt acceptance that "the United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181, of 1947, which partitioned Palestine into two states [...] provides the legal basis for the right of the Palestinian Arab people to national sovereignty and independence."
> November 15 1988 The Declaration of Independence of the State of Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> You can't say "the Palestinians" when it is only some who are around Ramallah.
> They already had the right to national sovereignty and independence without the resolution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> The PLO (the sole representative of the Palestinians) declared independence.  This is recognized throughout the Arab World.
> As for the "right to national sovereignty and independence:"  I have the right to own a "Pot of Gold" --- but I have to work for it.  Having a "right" and exercising that "right" are two different things.   The Arab Palestinian have been not been able to establish a country that can stand on its own for the last quarter of a century.  And don't blame Israel.  All it would have taken in 1988 was a Peace Treaty.  But no --- they couldn't even do that.  They could do it then and they can't do it now.  They couldn't even remain loyal to the King of Jordan; who was trying to protect them.
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *"The Arab Palestinian have been not been able to establish a country that can stand on its own for the last quarter of a century."**Indeed, it is called illegal external interference.*
Click to expand...

Palistanian drivel goes by many names, of course.


----------



## Daniyel

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> There is some truth here, but the interpretation is wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore, even the Palestinians used resolution 181 to declare independence.
> 
> "The Declaration contains an overt acceptance that "the United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181, of 1947, which partitioned Palestine into two states [...] provides the legal basis for the right of the Palestinian Arab people to national sovereignty and independence."
> 
> November 15 1988 The Declaration of Independence of the State of Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> You can't say "the Palestinians" when it is only some who are around Ramallah.
> 
> They already had the right to national sovereignty and independence without the resolution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The PLO (the sole representative of the Palestinians) declared independence.  This is recognized throughout the Arab World.
> 
> As for the "right to national sovereignty and independence:"  I have the right to own a "Pot of Gold" --- but I have to work for it.  Having a "right" and exercising that "right" are two different things.   The Arab Palestinian have been not been able to establish a country that can stand on its own for the last quarter of a century.  And don't blame Israel.  All it would have taken in 1988 was a Peace Treaty.  But no --- they couldn't even do that.  They could do it then and they can't do it now.  They couldn't even remain loyal to the King of Jordan; who was trying to protect them.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *"The Arab Palestinian have been not been able to establish a country that can stand on its own for the last quarter of a century."*
> 
> *Indeed, it is called illegal external interference.*
Click to expand...

Internal not external.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> zionists manipulating wiki - Google Search
> 
> 
> 
> Arabist manipulators, calling others manipulators. Funny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Zionist editing' on Wikipedia"
> 
> Advertisement
> 
> "Wikipedia Editing for Zionists"
> 
> http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/wikipedia-editing-for-zionists/
Click to expand...





 Haaretz is not a valid source of anything as they do not proof read the material submitted, instead they give a blanket get out to cover themselves from prosecution.

 Any blog is not a valid source as it is unsubstantiated drivel by one person, and they can LIE as much as they want .


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't refute that but there needs to be some documentation showing that Israel gets to keep the land it captured militarily.
> 
> It is illegal to keep land captured in war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who says there needs to be documentation? They captured land ALLOTTED to the Palestinian in the partition plan. It doesn't say they captured Palestinian Territory.
> That land is now inside the green line and inside Israel's internationally recognized borders. Recognized by the U.N AND the P.A .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still ducking out on providing that link?
> 
> It is true. Allotted only means set aside for a purpose. The allotted land for the Jewish state and the Arab state were to be given to the respective states in the implementation of resolution 181 that didn't happen.
> 
> The Green Line is the international recognized *de facto* border. It is not a real border so it is Palestine on both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I gave you a link showing that Israel captured that territory . The fact that you asked for documentation is another 'Tinmore Pre requisite'
> 
> 
> "It is Palestine on both sides"
> 
> 
> 
> Keep telling yourself that. Everything inside the green line is Israels land. And Israel has internationally recognized boundaries with Egypt and Jordan. .
> So, you're wrong. Again. For like the 500th time.
> 
> :
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If that is Israel's land why does it not have a border? Not even Israel recognized the green line as its border.
> 
> If that is Israel's land there should be documents showing when it acquired the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First off, Israel has internationally recognized borders with Egypt and Jordan. This is just a simple fact that you cannot deny:
> 
> *The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel in the recognized international boundary*
> 
> Peace Treaty between Israel and Egypt - Non-UN document 26 March 1979
> 
> *The international boundary between Israel and Jordan*
> 
> A 50 73-S 1995 83 of 27 January 1995
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that is Israel's land there should be documents showing when it acquired the land
> 
> We've been through this many many many times.* Acquiring land is a real estate issue and not related to this.* The need for their to be documentation to show how Israel acquired land is a 'Tinmore Pre - requisite'
Click to expand...

Oh really. Then what does this mean?

"_Emphasizing_ the inadmissibility of the *acquisition* of territory by war..."

S RES 242 1967 of 22 November 1967


----------



## Daniyel

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who says there needs to be documentation? They captured land ALLOTTED to the Palestinian in the partition plan. It doesn't say they captured Palestinian Territory.
> That land is now inside the green line and inside Israel's internationally recognized borders. Recognized by the U.N AND the P.A .
> 
> 
> 
> Still ducking out on providing that link?
> 
> It is true. Allotted only means set aside for a purpose. The allotted land for the Jewish state and the Arab state were to be given to the respective states in the implementation of resolution 181 that didn't happen.
> 
> The Green Line is the international recognized *de facto* border. It is not a real border so it is Palestine on both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I gave you a link showing that Israel captured that territory . The fact that you asked for documentation is another 'Tinmore Pre requisite'
> 
> 
> "It is Palestine on both sides"
> 
> 
> 
> Keep telling yourself that. Everything inside the green line is Israels land. And Israel has internationally recognized boundaries with Egypt and Jordan. .
> So, you're wrong. Again. For like the 500th time.
> 
> :
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If that is Israel's land why does it not have a border? Not even Israel recognized the green line as its border.
> 
> If that is Israel's land there should be documents showing when it acquired the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First off, Israel has internationally recognized borders with Egypt and Jordan. This is just a simple fact that you cannot deny:
> 
> *The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel in the recognized international boundary*
> 
> Peace Treaty between Israel and Egypt - Non-UN document 26 March 1979
> 
> *The international boundary between Israel and Jordan*
> 
> A 50 73-S 1995 83 of 27 January 1995
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that is Israel's land there should be documents showing when it acquired the land
> 
> We've been through this many many many times.* Acquiring land is a real estate issue and not related to this.* The need for their to be documentation to show how Israel acquired land is a 'Tinmore Pre - requisite'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh really. Then what does this mean?
> 
> "_Emphasizing_ the inadmissibility of the *acquisition* of territory by war..."
> 
> S RES 242 1967 of 22 November 1967
Click to expand...

The attempts Palestinians does to claim Israel.


----------



## montelatici

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, _et al,
> _
> The undisclosed intent behind the Arab League intervention was to disrupt the implementation of the Partition Plan, and for each neighboring Arab Nation to grab as much territory as they could for their own; using massacres as Deiryasseen as political cover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following telegram has been received today [4 MAY 1948 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by Secretary-General Trygve Lie from King Abdullah Ibn Hussein of Transjordan:]
> 
> 
> "Secretary United Nations Organization Lake Success, N.Y.
> 
> "The calamities occuring in Palestine are beyond belief and after May the 15th will reach the pinnacle of horror. I deplore and reprobate the useless killing and attacks the one upon the other and vehemently protest against such unparalleled massacres as Deiryasseen, wherein the wombs of pregnant women were ripped open as the Jewish Agency confirmed to me by telegram but laid to the book of their dissident elements. I am nevertheless persuaded that the Jewish people as a whole desire to live in amity with the Arabs. Everything cries for intervention to halt this butchery. We now declare our readiness to give the Jews in Palestine full Arab nationality in a unitary State sharing all that we share while yet enjoying a special administration in particular areas. Thus will end the slaughter and the people will live in peace and security for ever.
> Abdullah Ibn Hussein."
> - See more at: Palestine question - Telegram from King Abdullah - Press release 4 May 1948
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jordanians did seize the West Bank, and the Egyptians seized the Gaza Strip.  The Syrians and Lebanese were unable to secure any meaningful objectives.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


The intent was to stop the slaughter and eviction of the non-Jews within the partition.


----------



## Daniyel

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, _et al,
> _
> The undisclosed intent behind the Arab League intervention was to disrupt the implementation of the Partition Plan, and for each neighboring Arab Nation to grab as much territory as they could for their own; using massacres as Deiryasseen as political cover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following telegram has been received today [4 MAY 1948 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by Secretary-General Trygve Lie from King Abdullah Ibn Hussein of Transjordan:]
> 
> 
> "Secretary United Nations Organization Lake Success, N.Y.
> 
> "The calamities occuring in Palestine are beyond belief and after May the 15th will reach the pinnacle of horror. I deplore and reprobate the useless killing and attacks the one upon the other and vehemently protest against such unparalleled massacres as Deiryasseen, wherein the wombs of pregnant women were ripped open as the Jewish Agency confirmed to me by telegram but laid to the book of their dissident elements. I am nevertheless persuaded that the Jewish people as a whole desire to live in amity with the Arabs. Everything cries for intervention to halt this butchery. We now declare our readiness to give the Jews in Palestine full Arab nationality in a unitary State sharing all that we share while yet enjoying a special administration in particular areas. Thus will end the slaughter and the people will live in peace and security for ever.
> Abdullah Ibn Hussein."
> - See more at: Palestine question - Telegram from King Abdullah - Press release 4 May 1948
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jordanians did seize the West Bank, and the Egyptians seized the Gaza Strip.  The Syrians and Lebanese were unable to secure any meaningful objectives.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The intent was to stop the slaughter and eviction of the non-Jews within the partition.
Click to expand...

Like everywhere else in the ME of course!!
Haha you are such a moron if you think anyone buy this crap.


----------



## Phoenall

pbel said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sooner the Palestinians run-up the White Flag of surrender, the sooner the healing can begin.
> 
> The Palestinians are the losers in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and, of course, the Losers in a war do not dictate the terms of peace.
> 
> That's not arrogance... that's the way the Real World works.
> 
> 
> 
> They will never surrender or bow to the Israeli boot...
> 
> Read the History of all previous Western footholds in this Sea of Islam...Time is their Weapon along with constant pressure and small fires...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How nice for you.
> 
> Bad for the Palestinians, though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are the least of Israel's problems in the long-term if a peace deal is not reached.
Click to expand...





 Then the Palestinians better get their act together before too long or they will find themselves overran by other muslims going to Israels aid. The only people who could possibly be of harm to Israel are at this moment in time fighting for their very survival. So when the fighting ends there wont be enough fighting men left to be a problem for Israel. Forget Iran as they are just loud mouthed bullies and dare not do anything without using a proxy.


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> The intent was to stop the slaughter and eviction of the non-Jews within the partition.


Arabs always seem to never run out of excuses, don't they?


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> zionists manipulating wiki - Google Search
> 
> 
> 
> Arabist manipulators, calling others manipulators. Funny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Zionist editing' on Wikipedia"
> 
> Advertisement
> 
> "Wikipedia Editing for Zionists"
> 
> http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/wikipedia-editing-for-zionists/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Everyone edits Wiki - from all sides.  You especially see it around election times.
> 
> But then again - all you have to do is use your brain and track down the sources, and the arguments and who's who that has made changes and what the original text was.
> 
> Or, just go to the sources and see what they say.  At least wiki makes a note when claims are made without a citation or the claims are thin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why not use source documents, they don't change.  There are a surprisingly low number of people that actually do the editing on wikipedia, frankly I don't trust it for information related to contentious issues and try to use it as little as possible to make my points:
> 
> "So did the Gang of 500 actually write Wikipedia? Wales decided to run a simple study to find out: he counted who made the most edits to the site. "I expected to find something like an 80-20 rule: 80% of the work being done by 20% of the users, just because that seems to come up a lot. But it's actually much, much tighter than that: it turns out *over 50% of all the edits are done by just .7% of the users ... 524 people. ... And in fact the most active 2%, which is 1400 people, have done 73.4% of all the edits."* The remaining 25% of edits, he said, were from "people who [are] contributing ... a minor change of a fact or a minor spelling fix ... or something like that."
> 
> Read more: Who The Hell Writes Wikipedia Anyway - Business Insider
Click to expand...




 The above are not reliable source documents, they have no validity being the views of the authors only.


----------



## montelatici

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The intent was to stop the slaughter and eviction of the non-Jews within the partition.
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs always seem to never run out of excuses, don't they?
Click to expand...


How can it be an excuse.  There were Europeans flooding into the area intending on creating a state for themselves with the eviction of non-Jews.  That's what happened.  Do you deny history too.


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> We've been through this many many many times.* Acquiring land is a real estate issue and not related to this.* The need for their to be documentation to show how Israel acquired land is a 'Tinmore Pre - requisite'
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really. Then what does this mean? "_Emphasizing_ the inadmissibility of the *acquisition* of territory by war..."S RES 242 1967 of 22 November 1967
Click to expand...

So, then, it's no trouble for palistanians to present their collective deed to the territory with a signature of that one, who made that bulk sale of it to them, isn't it?


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know I am the smartest poster you have come up against, that's what drives you crazy, I make you look like a fool. I just present facts with backup, like the Hasbara initiative to edit WIKI.
> 
> 
> 
> It's the best joke, so far, after the one about those major arab settlers, who got to be saudi sheiks to own(!) 90%(!) of the mandate palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, you mean the data reported by the British from the Mandate Land Registries in the 1946 Survey of Palestine prepared for the UN?  Well let's see them again. Oh dear what a come down after believing the propaganda LOL   View attachment 32708
Click to expand...




 Table 1 disagrees with this as you know as it shows that arab muslims owned 0.8% of the land and the Jews owned 4.8%. This just shows the occupancy of the farmland by tenant farmers and still shows that the Jews owned more in the amount of taxes they paid. Only land owners pay taxes so the figures talk for themselves as they show the Jews paying the most in taxes. Any comment on having your "source documents" picked apart  and destroyed in front of your eyes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Daniyel said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still ducking out on providing that link?
> 
> It is true. Allotted only means set aside for a purpose. The allotted land for the Jewish state and the Arab state were to be given to the respective states in the implementation of resolution 181 that didn't happen.
> 
> The Green Line is the international recognized *de facto* border. It is not a real border so it is Palestine on both sides.
> 
> 
> 
> I gave you a link showing that Israel captured that territory . The fact that you asked for documentation is another 'Tinmore Pre requisite'
> 
> 
> "It is Palestine on both sides"
> 
> 
> 
> Keep telling yourself that. Everything inside the green line is Israels land. And Israel has internationally recognized boundaries with Egypt and Jordan. .
> So, you're wrong. Again. For like the 500th time.
> 
> :
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If that is Israel's land why does it not have a border? Not even Israel recognized the green line as its border.
> 
> If that is Israel's land there should be documents showing when it acquired the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First off, Israel has internationally recognized borders with Egypt and Jordan. This is just a simple fact that you cannot deny:
> 
> *The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel in the recognized international boundary*
> 
> Peace Treaty between Israel and Egypt - Non-UN document 26 March 1979
> 
> *The international boundary between Israel and Jordan*
> 
> A 50 73-S 1995 83 of 27 January 1995
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that is Israel's land there should be documents showing when it acquired the land
> 
> We've been through this many many many times.* Acquiring land is a real estate issue and not related to this.* The need for their to be documentation to show how Israel acquired land is a 'Tinmore Pre - requisite'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh really. Then what does this mean?
> 
> "_Emphasizing_ the inadmissibility of the *acquisition* of territory by war..."
> 
> S RES 242 1967 of 22 November 1967
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The attempts Palestinians does to claim Israel.
Click to expand...

You have that backwards.
(d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine,...*​The Avalon Project Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement April 3 1949

4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*​The Avalon Project Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement February 24 1949

In 1949 that territory was Palestine. When did Israel acquire that territory?


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so now wikipedia is a Zionist source hahha. You have a pathetic excuse for everything
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're a glutton for punishment:
> 
> " two Israeli groups seeking to gain the upper hand in the online debate have launched a course in "Zionist editing" for Wikipedia, the online reference site.
> 
> Yesha Council, representing the Jewish settler movement, and the rightwing Israel Sheli (My I srael) movement, ran their first workshop this week in Jerusalem, teaching participants how to rewrite and revise some of the most hotly disputed pages of the online reference site."
> 
> Wikipedia editing courses launched by Zionist groups World news The Guardian
> 
> "This example demonstrates how good articles full of useful information are systematically edited to remove material from reputable sources (if it does not suit the Zionist aims) and add information from other, often dubious sources. No matter what the topic, the Israeli version must come first and there are constant problems trying to maintain neutral tone and avoid weasel words."
> 
> https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Wikipedia's_Hasbara
> 
> "*u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit*
> 
> 
> 
> US Dept of Justice IP address blocked after 'vandalism' edits to Wikipediaexcerpt:Wikinews has learned that a United States Department of Justice (DOJ) IP Address has been blocked on Wikipedia after making edits to an article which were considered "vandalism". In two separate instances, the IP address from the DOJ removed information from the Wikipedia article about the organization Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA), regarding an attempt by the organization to secretly gain influence on the site. The IP address has been confirmed by Wikinews to be registered and used by the DOJ located in Washington, D.C."
> 
> we saw that... u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit....2013
> 
> 
> 
> Embedded media from this media site is no longer available
> 
> 
> "Troll editing on Wikipedia has been linked directly to such quasi-Israeli government entities as the media "watchdog" operation "CAMERA," or Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America." CAMERA, formed in 1982 by a group of Jewish activists in Boston tied to the Israeli government, has been the bane of many a newspaper editor or television news reporter. The group had a vendetta against ABC's Peter Jennings and the formerly rather unbiased National Public Radio for their even-handed Middle East reporting. At least five Wikipedia editors were found to be trolling for CAMERA and they were suspended. However, the rules governing Wikipedia permit many other CAMERA and pro-Israel trolls to operate with impunity.
> 
> Outside the CAMERA infrastructure, other Israeli groups also troll Wikipedia. Special Wikipedia editing classes have been sponsored on illegal settlements in the West Bank by the organizations Yesha Council and Israel Sheli. CAMERA's efforts were joined by the Hasbara Foundation (Hasbara is the term used for any Jew around the world who advances the propaganda of Israel). In 2007, the Hasbara Foundation, decrying the presence of unbiased information on Israel on Wikipedia, targeted certain editors' entries. The Hasbara Foundation claimed, "These authors have systematically yet subtly rewritten key passages of thousands of Wikipedia entries to portray Israel in a negative light. You have the opportunity to stop this dangerous trend! If you are interested in joining a team of Wikipedians to make sure Israel is presented fairly and accurately, please contact [the Hasbara Foundation] director."
> 
> zionists manipulating wiki - Google Search
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Man you're stupid. ANYONE is allowed to edit wikipedia. Not to mention pro Palestinians here use it all the time.
> The issue with you is that you cannot handle the truth, so you always make bullshit excuses. It's the pro Palestinians way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know I am the smartest poster you have come up against, that's what drives you crazy, I make you look like a fool. I just present facts with backup, like the Hasbara initiative to edit WIKI.
> 
> 
> "Zionist editing' on Wikipedia"
> 
> Advertisement
> 
> "Wikipedia Editing for Zionists"
> 
> http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/wikipedia-editing-for-zionists/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "You know I am the smartest poster you have come up against"
> 
> 
> 
> Stop it just stop !! Hahahahahahaha ! Don't flater yourself brainwashed sheep
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Lot's of bravado, do you think it impresses anyone?  It makes you look even more foolish than usual. LOL
Click to expand...




Have you seen your own posts and how many times they have been picked clean and destroyed.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Man you're stupid. ANYONE is allowed to edit wikipedia. Not to mention pro Palestinians here use it all the time.
> The issue with you is that you cannot handle the truth, so you always make bullshit excuses. It's the pro Palestinians way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know I am the smartest poster you have come up against, that's what drives you crazy, I make you look like a fool. I just present facts with backup, like the Hasbara initiative to edit WIKI.
> 
> 
> "Zionist editing' on Wikipedia"
> 
> Advertisement
> 
> "Wikipedia Editing for Zionists"
> 
> http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/wikipedia-editing-for-zionists/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "You know I am the smartest poster you have come up against"
> 
> 
> 
> Stop it just stop !! Hahahahahahaha ! Don't flater yourself brainwashed sheep
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Lot's of bravado, do you think it impresses anyone?  It makes you look even more foolish than usual. LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You think too highly of yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even a one-eyed man is King in the Valley of the Blind.
Click to expand...




 In your case you are the multitude of blind men.


----------



## montelatici

docmauser1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> We've been through this many many many times.* Acquiring land is a real estate issue and not related to this.* The need for their to be documentation to show how Israel acquired land is a 'Tinmore Pre - requisite'
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really. Then what does this mean? "_Emphasizing_ the inadmissibility of the *acquisition* of territory by war..."S RES 242 1967 of 22 November 1967
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, then, it's no trouble for palistanians to present their collective deed to the territory with a signature of that one, who made that bulk sale of it to them, isn't it?
Click to expand...



Easy, the British already audited the deeds: The Arabs owned more than 90% of the land:


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're a glutton for punishment:
> 
> " two Israeli groups seeking to gain the upper hand in the online debate have launched a course in "Zionist editing" for Wikipedia, the online reference site.
> 
> Yesha Council, representing the Jewish settler movement, and the rightwing Israel Sheli (My I srael) movement, ran their first workshop this week in Jerusalem, teaching participants how to rewrite and revise some of the most hotly disputed pages of the online reference site."
> 
> Wikipedia editing courses launched by Zionist groups World news The Guardian
> 
> "This example demonstrates how good articles full of useful information are systematically edited to remove material from reputable sources (if it does not suit the Zionist aims) and add information from other, often dubious sources. No matter what the topic, the Israeli version must come first and there are constant problems trying to maintain neutral tone and avoid weasel words."
> 
> https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Wikipedia's_Hasbara
> 
> "*u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit*
> 
> 
> 
> US Dept of Justice IP address blocked after 'vandalism' edits to Wikipediaexcerpt:Wikinews has learned that a United States Department of Justice (DOJ) IP Address has been blocked on Wikipedia after making edits to an article which were considered "vandalism". In two separate instances, the IP address from the DOJ removed information from the Wikipedia article about the organization Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA), regarding an attempt by the organization to secretly gain influence on the site. The IP address has been confirmed by Wikinews to be registered and used by the DOJ located in Washington, D.C."
> 
> we saw that... u.s. department of justice caught editing wikipedia for zionist benefit....2013
> 
> 
> 
> Embedded media from this media site is no longer available
> 
> 
> "Troll editing on Wikipedia has been linked directly to such quasi-Israeli government entities as the media "watchdog" operation "CAMERA," or Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America." CAMERA, formed in 1982 by a group of Jewish activists in Boston tied to the Israeli government, has been the bane of many a newspaper editor or television news reporter. The group had a vendetta against ABC's Peter Jennings and the formerly rather unbiased National Public Radio for their even-handed Middle East reporting. At least five Wikipedia editors were found to be trolling for CAMERA and they were suspended. However, the rules governing Wikipedia permit many other CAMERA and pro-Israel trolls to operate with impunity.
> 
> Outside the CAMERA infrastructure, other Israeli groups also troll Wikipedia. Special Wikipedia editing classes have been sponsored on illegal settlements in the West Bank by the organizations Yesha Council and Israel Sheli. CAMERA's efforts were joined by the Hasbara Foundation (Hasbara is the term used for any Jew around the world who advances the propaganda of Israel). In 2007, the Hasbara Foundation, decrying the presence of unbiased information on Israel on Wikipedia, targeted certain editors' entries. The Hasbara Foundation claimed, "These authors have systematically yet subtly rewritten key passages of thousands of Wikipedia entries to portray Israel in a negative light. You have the opportunity to stop this dangerous trend! If you are interested in joining a team of Wikipedians to make sure Israel is presented fairly and accurately, please contact [the Hasbara Foundation] director."
> 
> zionists manipulating wiki - Google Search
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man you're stupid. ANYONE is allowed to edit wikipedia. Not to mention pro Palestinians here use it all the time.
> The issue with you is that you cannot handle the truth, so you always make bullshit excuses. It's the pro Palestinians way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know I am the smartest poster you have come up against, that's what drives you crazy, I make you look like a fool. I just present facts with backup, like the Hasbara initiative to edit WIKI.
> 
> 
> "Zionist editing' on Wikipedia"
> 
> Advertisement
> 
> "Wikipedia Editing for Zionists"
> 
> http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/wikipedia-editing-for-zionists/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "You know I am the smartest poster you have come up against"
> 
> 
> 
> Stop it just stop !! Hahahahahahaha ! Don't flater yourself brainwashed sheep
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Lot's of bravado, do you think it impresses anyone?  It makes you look even more foolish than usual. LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you seen your own posts and how many times they have been picked clean and destroyed.
Click to expand...


No, they have demonstrated that you Israel Firsters are liars (and fools).  The facts betray your lot.


----------



## Phoenall

Daniyel said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> There is some truth here, but the interpretation is wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore, even the Palestinians used resolution 181 to declare independence.
> 
> "The Declaration contains an overt acceptance that "the United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181, of 1947, which partitioned Palestine into two states [...] provides the legal basis for the right of the Palestinian Arab people to national sovereignty and independence."
> 
> November 15 1988 The Declaration of Independence of the State of Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> You can't say "the Palestinians" when it is only some who are around Ramallah.
> 
> They already had the right to national sovereignty and independence without the resolution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The PLO (the sole representative of the Palestinians) declared independence.  This is recognized throughout the Arab World.
> 
> As for the "right to national sovereignty and independence:"  I have the right to own a "Pot of Gold" --- but I have to work for it.  Having a "right" and exercising that "right" are two different things.   The Arab Palestinian have been not been able to establish a country that can stand on its own for the last quarter of a century.  And don't blame Israel.  All it would have taken in 1988 was a Peace Treaty.  But no --- they couldn't even do that.  They could do it then and they can't do it now.  They couldn't even remain loyal to the King of Jordan; who was trying to protect them.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *"The Arab Palestinian have been not been able to establish a country that can stand on its own for the last quarter of a century."*
> 
> *Indeed, it is called illegal external interference.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Internal not external.
Click to expand...



 What he forgets is that it is the arab league that are exerting the illegal external interference


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, _et al,
> _
> The undisclosed intent behind the Arab League intervention was to disrupt the implementation of the Partition Plan, and for each neighboring Arab Nation to grab as much territory as they could for their own; using massacres as Deiryasseen as political cover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following telegram has been received today [4 MAY 1948 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by Secretary-General Trygve Lie from King Abdullah Ibn Hussein of Transjordan:]
> 
> 
> "Secretary United Nations Organization Lake Success, N.Y.
> 
> "The calamities occuring in Palestine are beyond belief and after May the 15th will reach the pinnacle of horror. I deplore and reprobate the useless killing and attacks the one upon the other and vehemently protest against such unparalleled massacres as Deiryasseen, wherein the wombs of pregnant women were ripped open as the Jewish Agency confirmed to me by telegram but laid to the book of their dissident elements. I am nevertheless persuaded that the Jewish people as a whole desire to live in amity with the Arabs. Everything cries for intervention to halt this butchery. We now declare our readiness to give the Jews in Palestine full Arab nationality in a unitary State sharing all that we share while yet enjoying a special administration in particular areas. Thus will end the slaughter and the people will live in peace and security for ever.
> Abdullah Ibn Hussein."
> - See more at: Palestine question - Telegram from King Abdullah - Press release 4 May 1948
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jordanians did seize the West Bank, and the Egyptians seized the Gaza Strip.  The Syrians and Lebanese were unable to secure any meaningful objectives.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The intent was to stop the slaughter and eviction of the non-Jews within the partition.
Click to expand...




 Nope as they stated they were out to destroy Israel and exterminate the Jews, and stated this in 1921, then again in 1947 for the world to hear.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The intent was to stop the slaughter and eviction of the non-Jews within the partition.
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs always seem to never run out of excuses, don't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can it be an excuse.  There were Europeans flooding into the area intending on creating a state for themselves with the eviction of non-Jews.  That's what happened.  Do you deny history too.
Click to expand...




 Sorry but they were promised the land by the LEGAL OWNERS and so they did nothing wrong. It is you that is denying history.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I gave you a link showing that Israel captured that territory . The fact that you asked for documentation is another 'Tinmore Pre requisite'
> 
> 
> "It is Palestine on both sides"
> 
> 
> 
> Keep telling yourself that. Everything inside the green line is Israels land. And Israel has internationally recognized boundaries with Egypt and Jordan. .
> So, you're wrong. Again. For like the 500th time.
> 
> :
> 
> 
> 
> If that is Israel's land why does it not have a border? Not even Israel recognized the green line as its border.
> 
> If that is Israel's land there should be documents showing when it acquired the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First off, Israel has internationally recognized borders with Egypt and Jordan. This is just a simple fact that you cannot deny:
> 
> *The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel in the recognized international boundary*
> 
> Peace Treaty between Israel and Egypt - Non-UN document 26 March 1979
> 
> *The international boundary between Israel and Jordan*
> 
> A 50 73-S 1995 83 of 27 January 1995
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that is Israel's land there should be documents showing when it acquired the land
> 
> We've been through this many many many times.* Acquiring land is a real estate issue and not related to this.* The need for their to be documentation to show how Israel acquired land is a 'Tinmore Pre - requisite'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh really. Then what does this mean?
> 
> "_Emphasizing_ the inadmissibility of the *acquisition* of territory by war..."
> 
> S RES 242 1967 of 22 November 1967
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The attempts Palestinians does to claim Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have that backwards.
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine,...*​The Avalon Project Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement April 3 1949
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*​The Avalon Project Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement February 24 1949
> 
> In 1949 that territory was Palestine. When did Israel acquire that territory?
Click to expand...




 1949 when the UN accepted them as a nation under the UN charter, it was the signing of the armistice that swung it. It is still referred to as Palestine today as it denotes an undefined area in the M.E. that is for ever changing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> There is some truth here, but the interpretation is wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore, even the Palestinians used resolution 181 to declare independence.
> 
> "The Declaration contains an overt acceptance that "the United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181, of 1947, which partitioned Palestine into two states [...] provides the legal basis for the right of the Palestinian Arab people to national sovereignty and independence."
> 
> November 15 1988 The Declaration of Independence of the State of Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> You can't say "the Palestinians" when it is only some who are around Ramallah.
> 
> They already had the right to national sovereignty and independence without the resolution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The PLO (the sole representative of the Palestinians) declared independence.  This is recognized throughout the Arab World.
> 
> As for the "right to national sovereignty and independence:"  I have the right to own a "Pot of Gold" --- but I have to work for it.  Having a "right" and exercising that "right" are two different things.   The Arab Palestinian have been not been able to establish a country that can stand on its own for the last quarter of a century.  And don't blame Israel.  All it would have taken in 1988 was a Peace Treaty.  But no --- they couldn't even do that.  They could do it then and they can't do it now.  They couldn't even remain loyal to the King of Jordan; who was trying to protect them.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *"The Arab Palestinian have been not been able to establish a country that can stand on its own for the last quarter of a century."*
> 
> *Indeed, it is called illegal external interference.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Internal not external.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What he forgets is that it is the arab league that are exerting the illegal external interference
Click to expand...

That may be true with Jordan. Jordan accepted a deal from the Zionists/Britain to get $3M a year for five years and the West Bank to not attack Israel in a pre war agreement.

However, that just means that Jordan was in cahoots with the Zionists/Britain in their illegal external interference.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> We've been through this many many many times.* Acquiring land is a real estate issue and not related to this.* The need for their to be documentation to show how Israel acquired land is a 'Tinmore Pre - requisite'
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really. Then what does this mean? "_Emphasizing_ the inadmissibility of the *acquisition* of territory by war..."S RES 242 1967 of 22 November 1967
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, then, it's no trouble for palistanians to present their collective deed to the territory with a signature of that one, who made that bulk sale of it to them, isn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Easy, the British already audited the deeds: The Arabs owned more than 90% of the land:
Click to expand...



 Wrong as the deeds were lodged in Turkey and not in Palestine until the UN took over in 1946. The links you provide do not show 90% ownership at all they show 0.8% ownership


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who says there needs to be documentation? They captured land ALLOTTED to the Palestinian in the partition plan. It doesn't say they captured Palestinian Territory.
> That land is now inside the green line and inside Israel's internationally recognized borders. Recognized by the U.N AND the P.A .
> 
> 
> 
> Still ducking out on providing that link?
> 
> It is true. Allotted only means set aside for a purpose. The allotted land for the Jewish state and the Arab state were to be given to the respective states in the implementation of resolution 181 that didn't happen.
> 
> The Green Line is the international recognized *de facto* border. It is not a real border so it is Palestine on both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I gave you a link showing that Israel captured that territory . The fact that you asked for documentation is another 'Tinmore Pre requisite'
> 
> 
> "It is Palestine on both sides"
> 
> 
> 
> Keep telling yourself that. Everything inside the green line is Israels land. And Israel has internationally recognized boundaries with Egypt and Jordan. .
> So, you're wrong. Again. For like the 500th time.
> 
> :
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If that is Israel's land why does it not have a border? Not even Israel recognized the green line as its border.
> 
> If that is Israel's land there should be documents showing when it acquired the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First off, Israel has internationally recognized borders with Egypt and Jordan. This is just a simple fact that you cannot deny:
> 
> *The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel in the recognized international boundary*
> 
> Peace Treaty between Israel and Egypt - Non-UN document 26 March 1979
> 
> *The international boundary between Israel and Jordan*
> 
> A 50 73-S 1995 83 of 27 January 1995
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that is Israel's land there should be documents showing when it acquired the land
> 
> We've been through this many many many times.* Acquiring land is a real estate issue and not related to this.* The need for their to be documentation to show how Israel acquired land is a 'Tinmore Pre - requisite'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh really. Then what does this mean?
> 
> "_Emphasizing_ the inadmissibility of the *acquisition* of territory by war..."
> 
> S RES 242 1967 of 22 November 1967
Click to expand...

Calling something inadmissible is one thing.

Acting upon something called inadmissible is quite another.

As will be evident in observing what the UN did to back up its resolution of that date.

Left unchallenged, eventually, the inadmissible become the admissible, de facto and de jour.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Man you're stupid. ANYONE is allowed to edit wikipedia. Not to mention pro Palestinians here use it all the time.
> The issue with you is that you cannot handle the truth, so you always make bullshit excuses. It's the pro Palestinians way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know I am the smartest poster you have come up against, that's what drives you crazy, I make you look like a fool. I just present facts with backup, like the Hasbara initiative to edit WIKI.
> 
> 
> "Zionist editing' on Wikipedia"
> 
> Advertisement
> 
> "Wikipedia Editing for Zionists"
> 
> http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/wikipedia-editing-for-zionists/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "You know I am the smartest poster you have come up against"
> 
> 
> 
> Stop it just stop !! Hahahahahahaha ! Don't flater yourself brainwashed sheep
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Lot's of bravado, do you think it impresses anyone?  It makes you look even more foolish than usual. LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you seen your own posts and how many times they have been picked clean and destroyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, they have demonstrated that you Israel Firsters are liars (and fools).  The facts betray your lot.
Click to expand...




 What facts, you keep amending them as they are picked clean, now you no longer gins links because the links show you are manipulating the figures.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If that is Israel's land why does it not have a border? Not even Israel recognized the green line as its border.
> 
> If that is Israel's land there should be documents showing when it acquired the land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First off, Israel has internationally recognized borders with Egypt and Jordan. This is just a simple fact that you cannot deny:
> 
> *The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel in the recognized international boundary*
> 
> Peace Treaty between Israel and Egypt - Non-UN document 26 March 1979
> 
> *The international boundary between Israel and Jordan*
> 
> A 50 73-S 1995 83 of 27 January 1995
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that is Israel's land there should be documents showing when it acquired the land
> 
> We've been through this many many many times.* Acquiring land is a real estate issue and not related to this.* The need for their to be documentation to show how Israel acquired land is a 'Tinmore Pre - requisite'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh really. Then what does this mean?
> 
> "_Emphasizing_ the inadmissibility of the *acquisition* of territory by war..."
> 
> S RES 242 1967 of 22 November 1967
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The attempts Palestinians does to claim Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have that backwards.
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine,...*​The Avalon Project Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement April 3 1949
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*​The Avalon Project Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement February 24 1949
> 
> In 1949 that territory was Palestine. When did Israel acquire that territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1949 when the UN accepted them as a nation under the UN charter, it was the signing of the armistice that swung it. It is still referred to as* Palestine today as it denotes an undefined area *in the M.E. that is for ever changing.
Click to expand...

An undefined area with international borders.

Good one!


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> There is some truth here, but the interpretation is wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can't say "the Palestinians" when it is only some who are around Ramallah.
> 
> They already had the right to national sovereignty and independence without the resolution.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The PLO (the sole representative of the Palestinians) declared independence.  This is recognized throughout the Arab World.
> 
> As for the "right to national sovereignty and independence:"  I have the right to own a "Pot of Gold" --- but I have to work for it.  Having a "right" and exercising that "right" are two different things.   The Arab Palestinian have been not been able to establish a country that can stand on its own for the last quarter of a century.  And don't blame Israel.  All it would have taken in 1988 was a Peace Treaty.  But no --- they couldn't even do that.  They could do it then and they can't do it now.  They couldn't even remain loyal to the King of Jordan; who was trying to protect them.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *"The Arab Palestinian have been not been able to establish a country that can stand on its own for the last quarter of a century."*
> 
> *Indeed, it is called illegal external interference.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Internal not external.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What he forgets is that it is the arab league that are exerting the illegal external interference
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That may be true with Jordan. Jordan accepted a deal from the Zionists/Britain to get $3M a year for five years and the West Bank to not attack Israel in a pre war agreement.
> 
> However, that just means that Jordan was in cahoots with the Zionists/Britain in their illegal external interference.
Click to expand...



 Nope the arab league denied the Palestinians the right to declare independence until after the cut off date. Then denied them the right of return when it was offered by Israel. Since 1948 it has been the arab league that has been the external illegal interference


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The intent was to stop the slaughter and eviction of the non-Jews within the partition.
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs always seem to never run out of excuses, don't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can it be an excuse.  There were Europeans flooding into the area intending on creating a state for themselves with the eviction of non-Jews.  That's what happened.  Do you deny history too.
Click to expand...

Arabs always seem to never run out of excuses, indeed.


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> We've been through this many many many times.* Acquiring land is a real estate issue and not related to this.* The need for their to be documentation to show how Israel acquired land is a 'Tinmore Pre - requisite'
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really. Then what does this mean? "_Emphasizing_ the inadmissibility of the *acquisition* of territory by war..."S RES 242 1967 of 22 November 1967
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, then, it's no trouble for palistanians to present their collective deed to the territory with a signature of that one, who made that bulk sale of it to them, isn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Easy, the British already audited the deeds: The Arabs owned more than 90% of the land:
Click to expand...

But forgot to present the original of the collective deed for a review. Audit fail.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> There is some truth here, but the interpretation is wrong.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The PLO (the sole representative of the Palestinians) declared independence.  This is recognized throughout the Arab World.
> 
> As for the "right to national sovereignty and independence:"  I have the right to own a "Pot of Gold" --- but I have to work for it.  Having a "right" and exercising that "right" are two different things.   The Arab Palestinian have been not been able to establish a country that can stand on its own for the last quarter of a century.  And don't blame Israel.  All it would have taken in 1988 was a Peace Treaty.  But no --- they couldn't even do that.  They could do it then and they can't do it now.  They couldn't even remain loyal to the King of Jordan; who was trying to protect them.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> *"The Arab Palestinian have been not been able to establish a country that can stand on its own for the last quarter of a century."*
> 
> *Indeed, it is called illegal external interference.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Internal not external.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What he forgets is that it is the arab league that are exerting the illegal external interference
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That may be true with Jordan. Jordan accepted a deal from the Zionists/Britain to get $3M a year for five years and the West Bank to not attack Israel in a pre war agreement.
> 
> However, that just means that Jordan was in cahoots with the Zionists/Britain in their illegal external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *Nope the arab league denied the Palestinians the right to declare independence until after the cut off date. *Then denied them the right of return when it was offered by Israel. Since 1948 it has been the arab league that has been the external illegal interference
Click to expand...

What is the cut off date for inalienable rights?

Link?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> First off, Israel has internationally recognized borders with Egypt and Jordan. This is just a simple fact that you cannot deny:
> 
> *The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel in the recognized international boundary*
> 
> Peace Treaty between Israel and Egypt - Non-UN document 26 March 1979
> 
> *The international boundary between Israel and Jordan*
> 
> A 50 73-S 1995 83 of 27 January 1995
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that is Israel's land there should be documents showing when it acquired the land
> 
> We've been through this many many many times.* Acquiring land is a real estate issue and not related to this.* The need for their to be documentation to show how Israel acquired land is a 'Tinmore Pre - requisite'
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really. Then what does this mean?
> 
> "_Emphasizing_ the inadmissibility of the *acquisition* of territory by war..."
> 
> S RES 242 1967 of 22 November 1967
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The attempts Palestinians does to claim Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have that backwards.
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine,...*​The Avalon Project Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement April 3 1949
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*​The Avalon Project Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement February 24 1949
> 
> In 1949 that territory was Palestine. When did Israel acquire that territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1949 when the UN accepted them as a nation under the UN charter, it was the signing of the armistice that swung it. It is still referred to as* Palestine today as it denotes an undefined area *in the M.E. that is for ever changing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An undefined area with international borders.
> 
> Good one!
Click to expand...




 So were are the treaties signed by the representatives of Palestine that designate these international borders, without this in place the so called international borders can not exist under CUSTOMARY INTERNATIONAL LAW. I could not sign for the Palestinian people on the matter of International borders.
So once again as far as INTERNATIONAL LAW is concerned Palestine for 2000 years has been an undefined area in the M.E. that changes all the time.


----------



## Phoenall

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> We've been through this many many many times.* Acquiring land is a real estate issue and not related to this.* The need for their to be documentation to show how Israel acquired land is a 'Tinmore Pre - requisite'
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really. Then what does this mean? "_Emphasizing_ the inadmissibility of the *acquisition* of territory by war..."S RES 242 1967 of 22 November 1967
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, then, it's no trouble for palistanians to present their collective deed to the territory with a signature of that one, who made that bulk sale of it to them, isn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Easy, the British already audited the deeds: The Arabs owned more than 90% of the land:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But forgot to present the original of the collective deed for a review. Audit fail.
Click to expand...




 He cant as none exists.


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> First off, Israel has internationally recognized borders with Egypt and Jordan. This is just a simple fact that you cannot deny:
> 
> *The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel in the recognized international boundary*
> 
> Peace Treaty between Israel and Egypt - Non-UN document 26 March 1979
> 
> *The international boundary between Israel and Jordan*
> 
> A 50 73-S 1995 83 of 27 January 1995
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that is Israel's land there should be documents showing when it acquired the land
> 
> We've been through this many many many times.* Acquiring land is a real estate issue and not related to this.* The need for their to be documentation to show how Israel acquired land is a 'Tinmore Pre - requisite'
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really. Then what does this mean?
> 
> "_Emphasizing_ the inadmissibility of the *acquisition* of territory by war..."
> 
> S RES 242 1967 of 22 November 1967
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The attempts Palestinians does to claim Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have that backwards.
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine,...*​The Avalon Project Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement April 3 1949
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*​The Avalon Project Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement February 24 1949
> In 1949 that territory was Palestine. When did Israel acquire that territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1949 when the UN accepted them as a nation under the UN charter, it was the signing of the armistice that swung it. It is still referred to as* Palestine today as it denotes an undefined area *in the M.E. that is for ever changing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An undefined area with international borders.
> Good one!
Click to expand...

What's even better Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon and Syria have no borders!


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> You have that backwards.
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine,...*​The Avalon Project Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement April 3 1949
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*​The Avalon Project Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement February 24 1949
> In 1949 that territory was Palestine. When did Israel acquire that territory?


Kewl! So, who was that sheikh, shakh, emir, pasha, sultan, president, prime-minister of that "palestine" to have some territory?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I gave you a link showing that Israel captured that territory . The fact that you asked for documentation is another 'Tinmore Pre requisite'
> 
> 
> "It is Palestine on both sides"
> 
> 
> 
> Keep telling yourself that. Everything inside the green line is Israels land. And Israel has internationally recognized boundaries with Egypt and Jordan. .
> So, you're wrong. Again. For like the 500th time.
> 
> :
> 
> 
> 
> If that is Israel's land why does it not have a border? Not even Israel recognized the green line as its border.
> 
> If that is Israel's land there should be documents showing when it acquired the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First off, Israel has internationally recognized borders with Egypt and Jordan. This is just a simple fact that you cannot deny:
> 
> *The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel in the recognized international boundary*
> 
> Peace Treaty between Israel and Egypt - Non-UN document 26 March 1979
> 
> *The international boundary between Israel and Jordan*
> 
> A 50 73-S 1995 83 of 27 January 1995
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that is Israel's land there should be documents showing when it acquired the land
> 
> We've been through this many many many times.* Acquiring land is a real estate issue and not related to this.* The need for their to be documentation to show how Israel acquired land is a 'Tinmore Pre - requisite'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh really. Then what does this mean?
> 
> "_Emphasizing_ the inadmissibility of the *acquisition* of territory by war..."
> 
> S RES 242 1967 of 22 November 1967
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The attempts Palestinians does to claim Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have that backwards.
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine,...*​The Avalon Project Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement April 3 1949
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*​The Avalon Project Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement February 24 1949
> 
> In 1949 that territory was Palestine. When did Israel acquire that territory?
Click to expand...


The armistice agreements were between Israel and several other states. Not Palestine and other states. You're asking irrelevant questions


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who says there needs to be documentation? They captured land ALLOTTED to the Palestinian in the partition plan. It doesn't say they captured Palestinian Territory.
> That land is now inside the green line and inside Israel's internationally recognized borders. Recognized by the U.N AND the P.A .
> 
> 
> 
> Still ducking out on providing that link?
> 
> It is true. Allotted only means set aside for a purpose. The allotted land for the Jewish state and the Arab state were to be given to the respective states in the implementation of resolution 181 that didn't happen.
> 
> The Green Line is the international recognized *de facto* border. It is not a real border so it is Palestine on both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I gave you a link showing that Israel captured that territory . The fact that you asked for documentation is another 'Tinmore Pre requisite'
> 
> 
> "It is Palestine on both sides"
> 
> 
> 
> Keep telling yourself that. Everything inside the green line is Israels land. And Israel has internationally recognized boundaries with Egypt and Jordan. .
> So, you're wrong. Again. For like the 500th time.
> 
> :
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If that is Israel's land why does it not have a border? Not even Israel recognized the green line as its border.
> 
> If that is Israel's land there should be documents showing when it acquired the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First off, Israel has internationally recognized borders with Egypt and Jordan. This is just a simple fact that you cannot deny:
> 
> *The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel in the recognized international boundary*
> 
> Peace Treaty between Israel and Egypt - Non-UN document 26 March 1979
> 
> *The international boundary between Israel and Jordan*
> 
> A 50 73-S 1995 83 of 27 January 1995
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that is Israel's land there should be documents showing when it acquired the land
> 
> We've been through this many many many times.* Acquiring land is a real estate issue and not related to this.* The need for their to be documentation to show how Israel acquired land is a 'Tinmore Pre - requisite'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh really. Then what does this mean?
> 
> "_Emphasizing_ the inadmissibility of the *acquisition* of territory by war..."
> 
> S RES 242 1967 of 22 November 1967
Click to expand...


Your link is from 1967 and was referring to Sovereign territory captured by Israel. We were talking about the 1948 war where Israel captured land ALLOTTED to the Palestinian. They didn't capture sovereign territory.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> First off, Israel has internationally recognized borders with Egypt and Jordan. This is just a simple fact that you cannot deny:
> 
> *The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel in the recognized international boundary*
> 
> Peace Treaty between Israel and Egypt - Non-UN document 26 March 1979
> 
> *The international boundary between Israel and Jordan*
> 
> A 50 73-S 1995 83 of 27 January 1995
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that is Israel's land there should be documents showing when it acquired the land
> 
> We've been through this many many many times.* Acquiring land is a real estate issue and not related to this.* The need for their to be documentation to show how Israel acquired land is a 'Tinmore Pre - requisite'
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really. Then what does this mean?
> 
> "_Emphasizing_ the inadmissibility of the *acquisition* of territory by war..."
> 
> S RES 242 1967 of 22 November 1967
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The attempts Palestinians does to claim Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have that backwards.
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine,...*​The Avalon Project Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement April 3 1949
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*​The Avalon Project Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement February 24 1949
> 
> In 1949 that territory was Palestine. When did Israel acquire that territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1949 when the UN accepted them as a nation under the UN charter, it was the signing of the armistice that swung it. It is still referred to as* Palestine today as it denotes an undefined area *in the M.E. that is for ever changing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An undefined area with international borders.
> 
> Good one!
Click to expand...


Palestine does not have international borders. You can't even produce a map that shows these alleged borders that doesn't say 'Partition Plan' on it LOL


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> There is some truth here, but the interpretation is wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can't say "the Palestinians" when it is only some who are around Ramallah.
> 
> They already had the right to national sovereignty and independence without the resolution.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The PLO (the sole representative of the Palestinians) declared independence.  This is recognized throughout the Arab World.
> 
> As for the "right to national sovereignty and independence:"  I have the right to own a "Pot of Gold" --- but I have to work for it.  Having a "right" and exercising that "right" are two different things.   The Arab Palestinian have been not been able to establish a country that can stand on its own for the last quarter of a century.  And don't blame Israel.  All it would have taken in 1988 was a Peace Treaty.  But no --- they couldn't even do that.  They could do it then and they can't do it now.  They couldn't even remain loyal to the King of Jordan; who was trying to protect them.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *"The Arab Palestinian have been not been able to establish a country that can stand on its own for the last quarter of a century."*
> 
> *Indeed, it is called illegal external interference.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Internal not external.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What he forgets is that it is the arab league that are exerting the illegal external interference
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That may be true with Jordan. Jordan accepted a deal from the Zionists/Britain to get $3M a year for five years and the West Bank to not attack Israel in a pre war agreement.
> 
> However, that just means that Jordan was in cahoots with the Zionists/Britain in their illegal external interference.
Click to expand...

Got a link for the first statement ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If that is Israel's land why does it not have a border? Not even Israel recognized the green line as its border.
> 
> If that is Israel's land there should be documents showing when it acquired the land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First off, Israel has internationally recognized borders with Egypt and Jordan. This is just a simple fact that you cannot deny:
> 
> *The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel in the recognized international boundary*
> 
> Peace Treaty between Israel and Egypt - Non-UN document 26 March 1979
> 
> *The international boundary between Israel and Jordan*
> 
> A 50 73-S 1995 83 of 27 January 1995
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that is Israel's land there should be documents showing when it acquired the land
> 
> We've been through this many many many times.* Acquiring land is a real estate issue and not related to this.* The need for their to be documentation to show how Israel acquired land is a 'Tinmore Pre - requisite'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh really. Then what does this mean?
> 
> "_Emphasizing_ the inadmissibility of the *acquisition* of territory by war..."
> 
> S RES 242 1967 of 22 November 1967
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The attempts Palestinians does to claim Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have that backwards.
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine,...*​The Avalon Project Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement April 3 1949
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*​The Avalon Project Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement February 24 1949
> 
> In 1949 that territory was Palestine. When did Israel acquire that territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The armistice agreements were between Israel and several other states. Not Palestine and other states. You're asking irrelevant questions
Click to expand...

Palestine was at the center of the agreements because they divided Palestine into three areas of occupation.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"The Arab Palestinian have been not been able to establish a country that can stand on its own for the last quarter of a century."*
> 
> *Indeed, it is called illegal external interference.*
> 
> 
> 
> Internal not external.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What he forgets is that it is the arab league that are exerting the illegal external interference
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That may be true with Jordan. Jordan accepted a deal from the Zionists/Britain to get $3M a year for five years and the West Bank to not attack Israel in a pre war agreement.
> 
> However, that just means that Jordan was in cahoots with the Zionists/Britain in their illegal external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *Nope the arab league denied the Palestinians the right to declare independence until after the cut off date. *Then denied them the right of return when it was offered by Israel. Since 1948 it has been the arab league that has been the external illegal interference
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is the cut off date for inalienable rights?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...





 In the case of UN res 181 it was stated that the declaration had to be in by a certain date or it would not be entertained. This in no way alters their rights in any way as they could resubmit the declaration at a later date, which they did in 1988, but have not acted on it since and still have not shown that they are capable of free determination or that they are capable of forming a viable government


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> First off, Israel has internationally recognized borders with Egypt and Jordan. This is just a simple fact that you cannot deny:
> 
> *The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel in the recognized international boundary*
> 
> Peace Treaty between Israel and Egypt - Non-UN document 26 March 1979
> 
> *The international boundary between Israel and Jordan*
> 
> A 50 73-S 1995 83 of 27 January 1995
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that is Israel's land there should be documents showing when it acquired the land
> 
> We've been through this many many many times.* Acquiring land is a real estate issue and not related to this.* The need for their to be documentation to show how Israel acquired land is a 'Tinmore Pre - requisite'
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really. Then what does this mean?
> 
> "_Emphasizing_ the inadmissibility of the *acquisition* of territory by war..."
> 
> S RES 242 1967 of 22 November 1967
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The attempts Palestinians does to claim Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have that backwards.
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine,...*​The Avalon Project Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement April 3 1949
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*​The Avalon Project Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement February 24 1949
> 
> In 1949 that territory was Palestine. When did Israel acquire that territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The armistice agreements were between Israel and several other states. Not Palestine and other states. You're asking irrelevant questions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was at the center of the agreements because they divided Palestine into three areas of occupation.
Click to expand...


That's the dumbest thing I've ever read..

Where did you read "divided Palestine into three area of occupation?"


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> First off, Israel has internationally recognized borders with Egypt and Jordan. This is just a simple fact that you cannot deny:
> 
> *The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel in the recognized international boundary*
> 
> Peace Treaty between Israel and Egypt - Non-UN document 26 March 1979
> 
> *The international boundary between Israel and Jordan*
> 
> A 50 73-S 1995 83 of 27 January 1995
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that is Israel's land there should be documents showing when it acquired the land
> 
> We've been through this many many many times.* Acquiring land is a real estate issue and not related to this.* The need for their to be documentation to show how Israel acquired land is a 'Tinmore Pre - requisite'
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really. Then what does this mean?
> 
> "_Emphasizing_ the inadmissibility of the *acquisition* of territory by war..."
> 
> S RES 242 1967 of 22 November 1967
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The attempts Palestinians does to claim Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have that backwards.
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine,...*​The Avalon Project Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement April 3 1949
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*​The Avalon Project Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement February 24 1949
> 
> In 1949 that territory was Palestine. When did Israel acquire that territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The armistice agreements were between Israel and several other states. Not Palestine and other states. You're asking irrelevant questions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was at the center of the agreements because they divided Palestine into three areas of occupation.
Click to expand...




 Try again as Palestine in 1919 took in what was to become Syria, Iraq, Jordan, part of Lebanon, part of Egypt and part of Saudi. This left less than 7% of the total area of Palestine that you claim is the only Palestine that ever existed and is the only part that is of concern.
 The fact remains that no representative from the Palestinians has ever signed any treaty or agreement, and at no time was Palestine mentioned as a state in any UN resolution until 1988.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Internal not external.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What he forgets is that it is the arab league that are exerting the illegal external interference
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That may be true with Jordan. Jordan accepted a deal from the Zionists/Britain to get $3M a year for five years and the West Bank to not attack Israel in a pre war agreement.
> 
> However, that just means that Jordan was in cahoots with the Zionists/Britain in their illegal external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *Nope the arab league denied the Palestinians the right to declare independence until after the cut off date. *Then denied them the right of return when it was offered by Israel. Since 1948 it has been the arab league that has been the external illegal interference
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is the cut off date for inalienable rights?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the case of UN res 181 it was stated that the declaration had to be in by a certain date or it would not be entertained. This in no way alters their rights in any way as they could resubmit the declaration at a later date, which they did in 1988, but have not acted on it since and still have not shown that they are capable of free determination or that they are capable of forming a viable government
Click to expand...

The Palestinian's right to independence and sovereignty are independent from resolution 181.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really. Then what does this mean?
> 
> "_Emphasizing_ the inadmissibility of the *acquisition* of territory by war..."
> 
> S RES 242 1967 of 22 November 1967
> 
> 
> 
> The attempts Palestinians does to claim Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have that backwards.
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine,...*​The Avalon Project Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement April 3 1949
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*​The Avalon Project Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement February 24 1949
> 
> In 1949 that territory was Palestine. When did Israel acquire that territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The armistice agreements were between Israel and several other states. Not Palestine and other states. You're asking irrelevant questions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was at the center of the agreements because they divided Palestine into three areas of occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try again as Palestine in 1919 took in what was to become Syria, Iraq, Jordan, part of Lebanon, part of Egypt and part of Saudi. This left less than 7% of the total area of Palestine that you claim is the only Palestine that ever existed and is the only part that is of concern.
> The fact remains that no representative from the Palestinians has ever signed any treaty or agreement, and at no time was Palestine mentioned as a state in any UN resolution until 1988.
Click to expand...

"A state" is not necessary. The right to sovereignty pre dates statehood.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really. Then what does this mean?
> 
> "_Emphasizing_ the inadmissibility of the *acquisition* of territory by war..."
> 
> S RES 242 1967 of 22 November 1967
> 
> 
> 
> The attempts Palestinians does to claim Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have that backwards.
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine,...*​The Avalon Project Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement April 3 1949
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*​The Avalon Project Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement February 24 1949
> 
> In 1949 that territory was Palestine. When did Israel acquire that territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The armistice agreements were between Israel and several other states. Not Palestine and other states. You're asking irrelevant questions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was at the center of the agreements because they divided Palestine into three areas of occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's the dumbest thing I've ever read..
> 
> Where did you read "divided Palestine into three area of occupation?"
Click to expand...

— _Memo US Department of State, 4 May 1949_, FRUS, 1949, p. 973.: _"One of the most important problems which must be clared up before a lasting peace can be established in Palestine is the question of the more than 700,000 Arab refugees who during the Palestine conflict fled from their homes *in what is now Israeli occupied territory *and are at present living as refugees in Arab Palestine and the neighbouring Arab states."_;​FRUS Foreign relations of the United States 1949. The Near East South Asia and Africa Israel

Edit:
The armistice lines were known afterwards as the "Green Line". The Gaza Strip and the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) were occupied by Egypt and Jordan respectively.

1948 Arab Israeli War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> The attempts Palestinians does to claim Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> You have that backwards.
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine,...*​The Avalon Project Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement April 3 1949
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*​The Avalon Project Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement February 24 1949
> 
> In 1949 that territory was Palestine. When did Israel acquire that territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The armistice agreements were between Israel and several other states. Not Palestine and other states. You're asking irrelevant questions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was at the center of the agreements because they divided Palestine into three areas of occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's the dumbest thing I've ever read..
> 
> Where did you read "divided Palestine into three area of occupation?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> — _Memo US Department of State, 4 May 1949_, FRUS, 1949, p. 973.: _"One of the most important problems which must be clared up before a lasting peace can be established in Palestine is the question of the more than 700,000 Arab refugees who during the Palestine conflict fled from their homes *in what is now Israeli occupied territory *and are at present living as refugees in Arab Palestine and the neighbouring Arab states."_;​FRUS Foreign relations of the United States 1949. The Near East South Asia and Africa Israel
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> First off, Israel has internationally recognized borders with Egypt and Jordan. This is just a simple fact that you cannot deny:
> 
> *The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel in the recognized international boundary*
> 
> Peace Treaty between Israel and Egypt - Non-UN document 26 March 1979
> 
> *The international boundary between Israel and Jordan*
> 
> A 50 73-S 1995 83 of 27 January 1995
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that is Israel's land there should be documents showing when it acquired the land
> 
> We've been through this many many many times.* Acquiring land is a real estate issue and not related to this.* The need for their to be documentation to show how Israel acquired land is a 'Tinmore Pre - requisite'
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really. Then what does this mean?
> 
> "_Emphasizing_ the inadmissibility of the *acquisition* of territory by war..."
> 
> S RES 242 1967 of 22 November 1967
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The attempts Palestinians does to claim Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have that backwards.
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine,...*​The Avalon Project Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement April 3 1949
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*​The Avalon Project Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement February 24 1949
> 
> In 1949 that territory was Palestine. When did Israel acquire that territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The armistice agreements were between Israel and several other states. Not Palestine and other states. You're asking irrelevant questions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was at the center of the agreements because they divided Palestine into three areas of occupation.
Click to expand...

What does that have to with your three area of occupation lie?
If it says Israeli occupied territory, it's obviouwky referring to the West Bank.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

You almost have it right.  See Posting in the alternate thread.



P F Tinmore said:


> "A state" is not necessary. The right to sovereignty pre dates statehood.


*(COMMENT)*

"Statehood" is a manifestation and evidence that the "right to self-determination" _(sovereignty and independence)_ were successfully exercised.

As the Hostile Arab Palestinian already know, _from the 1970 attempts to kill HM The King of the Hashemite Kingdom_, such attempts can fail and be crushed.  Just having the "right" doesn't mean that the there is not a measure of successful implementation required (actual work). 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> You almost have it right.  See Posting in the alternate thread.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "A state" is not necessary. The right to sovereignty pre dates statehood.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> "Statehood" is a manifestation and evidence that the "right to self-determination" _(sovereignty and independence)_ were successfully exercised.
> 
> As the Hostile Arab Palestinian already know, _from the 1970 attempts to kill HM The King of the Hashemite Kingdom_, such attempts can fail and be crushed.  Just having the "right" doesn't mean that the there is not a measure of successful implementation required (actual work).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Indeed, it would require the removal of illegal external interference.


----------



## montelatici

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> You almost have it right.  See Posting in the alternate thread.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "A state" is not necessary. The right to sovereignty pre dates statehood.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> "Statehood" is a manifestation and evidence that the "right to self-determination" _(sovereignty and independence)_ were successfully exercised.
> 
> As the Hostile Arab Palestinian already know, _from the 1970 attempts to kill HM The King of the Hashemite Kingdom_, such attempts can fail and be crushed.  Just having the "right" doesn't mean that the there is not a measure of successful implementation required (actual work).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I love it how this clown accuse the people who have been dispossessed and are held in virtual concentration camps, hostile.  You are truly a piece of work terrone.


----------



## Slyhunter

pbel said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote,  _et al,_
> 
> This is an essential point.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> But you have people living there now, in the West Bank, who have been there for along time - who some here are stating should categorically kicked off the land (ethnically cleansed), to another country so that region can be inhabited by others who seem to me to have no more right to it then they do.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both sides are stuck in that same rut.
> 
> Have you forgotten Israel's many pre-conditions over the years?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is a very good argument, to be made on the part of the Arab Palestinian, relative to the Settlement Issue and the Oslo Accords.
> 
> But I'm not sure that anyone _(in authority)_ on the Arab Palestinian side of the talks is actually interested in serious negotiations.
> 
> Who, actually, wants to sit down and talk about solutions?
> 
> Most Respectively,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> tell us your solution...
Click to expand...

Fight until everyone on one side or the other is dead. 
Problem solved.


----------



## Daniyel

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> You almost have it right.  See Posting in the alternate thread.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "A state" is not necessary. The right to sovereignty pre dates statehood.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> "Statehood" is a manifestation and evidence that the "right to self-determination" _(sovereignty and independence)_ were successfully exercised.
> 
> As the Hostile Arab Palestinian already know, _from the 1970 attempts to kill HM The King of the Hashemite Kingdom_, such attempts can fail and be crushed.  Just having the "right" doesn't mean that the there is not a measure of successful implementation required (actual work).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I love it how this clown accuse the people who have been dispossessed and are held in virtual concentration camps, hostile.  You are truly a piece of work terrone.
Click to expand...

Haha talking about clowns you and Tinmore are both an excellent example, trying to justify false street justice wrapped with pretty words, to cure your wounded conscience with you blind premature racism, filth.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> You almost have it right.  See Posting in the alternate thread.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "A state" is not necessary. The right to sovereignty pre dates statehood.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> "Statehood" is a manifestation and evidence that the "right to self-determination" _(sovereignty and independence)_ were successfully exercised.
> 
> As the Hostile Arab Palestinian already know, _from the 1970 attempts to kill HM The King of the Hashemite Kingdom_, such attempts can fail and be crushed.  Just having the "right" doesn't mean that the there is not a measure of successful implementation required (actual work).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I love it how this clown accuse the people who have been dispossessed and are held in virtual concentration camps, hostile.  You are truly a piece of work terrone.
Click to expand...


You and Tinmore are quite possibly the biggest clowns here. You guys both make a good propaganda team ! 

You know, Rocco never insults anyone and he posts with respect all the time, yet you manage to insult him all the time. It not only shows how immature you are, but it also shows that you can't handle the truth that Rocco speaks.


----------



## pbel

Slyhunter said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote,  _et al,_
> 
> This is an essential point.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> But you have people living there now, in the West Bank, who have been there for along time - who some here are stating should categorically kicked off the land (ethnically cleansed), to another country so that region can be inhabited by others who seem to me to have no more right to it then they do.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both sides are stuck in that same rut.
> 
> Have you forgotten Israel's many pre-conditions over the years?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is a very good argument, to be made on the part of the Arab Palestinian, relative to the Settlement Issue and the Oslo Accords.
> 
> But I'm not sure that anyone _(in authority)_ on the Arab Palestinian side of the talks is actually interested in serious negotiations.
> 
> Who, actually, wants to sit down and talk about solutions?
> 
> Most Respectively,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> tell us your solution...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fight until everyone on one side or the other is dead.
> Problem solved.
Click to expand...

OK, arm the Palestinians with the same armaments and make it a fair fight.


----------



## RoccoR

Slyhunter,  _et al,_

Funny you should mention that.



Slyhunter said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote,  _et al,_
> 
> This is an essential point.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> But you have people living there now, in the West Bank, who have been there for along time - who some here are stating should categorically kicked off the land (ethnically cleansed), to another country so that region can be inhabited by others who seem to me to have no more right to it then they do.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both sides are stuck in that same rut.
> 
> Have you forgotten Israel's many pre-conditions over the years?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is a very good argument, to be made on the part of the Arab Palestinian, relative to the Settlement Issue and the Oslo Accords.
> 
> But I'm not sure that anyone _(in authority)_ on the Arab Palestinian side of the talks is actually interested in serious negotiations.
> 
> Who, actually, wants to sit down and talk about solutions?
> 
> Most Respectively,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> tell us your solution...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fight until everyone on one side or the other is dead.
> Problem solved.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) have a similar perspective on the record.



			
				13. In conclusion said:
			
		

> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.   (A/AC.21/10 16 February 1948)




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really. Then what does this mean?
> 
> "_Emphasizing_ the inadmissibility of the *acquisition* of territory by war..."
> 
> S RES 242 1967 of 22 November 1967
> 
> 
> 
> The attempts Palestinians does to claim Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have that backwards.
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine,...*​The Avalon Project Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement April 3 1949
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*​The Avalon Project Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement February 24 1949
> 
> In 1949 that territory was Palestine. When did Israel acquire that territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1949 when the UN accepted them as a nation under the UN charter, it was the signing of the armistice that swung it. It is still referred to as* Palestine today as it denotes an undefined area *in the M.E. that is for ever changing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An undefined area with international borders.
> 
> Good one!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine does not have international borders. You can't even produce a map that shows these alleged borders that doesn't say 'Partition Plan' on it LOL
Click to expand...


Palestine certainly does have international borders.  They are


RoccoR said:


> Slyhunter,  _et al,_
> 
> Funny you should mention that.
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote,  _et al,_
> 
> This is an essential point.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> But you have people living there now, in the West Bank, who have been there for along time - who some here are stating should categorically kicked off the land (ethnically cleansed), to another country so that region can be inhabited by others who seem to me to have no more right to it then they do.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both sides are stuck in that same rut.
> 
> Have you forgotten Israel's many pre-conditions over the years?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is a very good argument, to be made on the part of the Arab Palestinian, relative to the Settlement Issue and the Oslo Accords.
> 
> But I'm not sure that anyone _(in authority)_ on the Arab Palestinian side of the talks is actually interested in serious negotiations.
> 
> Who, actually, wants to sit down and talk about solutions?
> 
> Most Respectively,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> tell us your solution...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fight until everyone on one side or the other is dead.
> Problem solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) have a similar perspective on the record.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 13. In conclusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.   (A/AC.21/10 16 February 1948)
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


You and your Murderous Israeli Jews (MIG) buddies would like that wouldn't you.


----------



## Daniyel

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> The attempts Palestinians does to claim Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> You have that backwards.
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine,...*​The Avalon Project Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement April 3 1949
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*​The Avalon Project Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement February 24 1949
> 
> In 1949 that territory was Palestine. When did Israel acquire that territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1949 when the UN accepted them as a nation under the UN charter, it was the signing of the armistice that swung it. It is still referred to as* Palestine today as it denotes an undefined area *in the M.E. that is for ever changing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An undefined area with international borders.
> 
> Good one!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine does not have international borders. You can't even produce a map that shows these alleged borders that doesn't say 'Partition Plan' on it LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine certainly does have international borders.  They are
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter,  _et al,_
> 
> Funny you should mention that.
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote,  _et al,_
> 
> This is an essential point.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> But you have people living there now, in the West Bank, who have been there for along time - who some here are stating should categorically kicked off the land (ethnically cleansed), to another country so that region can be inhabited by others who seem to me to have no more right to it then they do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is a very good argument, to be made on the part of the Arab Palestinian, relative to the Settlement Issue and the Oslo Accords.
> 
> But I'm not sure that anyone _(in authority)_ on the Arab Palestinian side of the talks is actually interested in serious negotiations.
> 
> Who, actually, wants to sit down and talk about solutions?
> 
> Most Respectively,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> tell us your solution...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fight until everyone on one side or the other is dead.
> Problem solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) have a similar perspective on the record.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 13. In conclusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.   (A/AC.21/10 16 February 1948)
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You and your Murderous Israeli Jews (MIG) buddies would like that wouldn't you.
Click to expand...

Jews? You little filth, take a good look on your buddies.


----------



## montelatici

Daniyel said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have that backwards.
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine,...*​The Avalon Project Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement April 3 1949
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*​The Avalon Project Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement February 24 1949
> 
> In 1949 that territory was Palestine. When did Israel acquire that territory?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1949 when the UN accepted them as a nation under the UN charter, it was the signing of the armistice that swung it. It is still referred to as* Palestine today as it denotes an undefined area *in the M.E. that is for ever changing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An undefined area with international borders.
> 
> Good one!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine does not have international borders. You can't even produce a map that shows these alleged borders that doesn't say 'Partition Plan' on it LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine certainly does have international borders.  They are
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter,  _et al,_
> 
> Funny you should mention that.
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote,  _et al,_
> 
> This is an essential point.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is a very good argument, to be made on the part of the Arab Palestinian, relative to the Settlement Issue and the Oslo Accords.
> 
> But I'm not sure that anyone _(in authority)_ on the Arab Palestinian side of the talks is actually interested in serious negotiations.
> 
> Who, actually, wants to sit down and talk about solutions?
> 
> Most Respectively,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> tell us your solution...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fight until everyone on one side or the other is dead.
> Problem solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) have a similar perspective on the record.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 13. In conclusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.   (A/AC.21/10 16 February 1948)
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You and your Murderous Israeli Jews (MIG) buddies would like that wouldn't you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews? You little filth, take a good look on your buddies.
Click to expand...

 Took a clip from a Jewish wedding? Or a Hasbara Photoshop?


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> The attempts Palestinians does to claim Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> You have that backwards.
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine,...*​The Avalon Project Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement April 3 1949
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*​The Avalon Project Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement February 24 1949
> 
> In 1949 that territory was Palestine. When did Israel acquire that territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1949 when the UN accepted them as a nation under the UN charter, it was the signing of the armistice that swung it. It is still referred to as* Palestine today as it denotes an undefined area *in the M.E. that is for ever changing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An undefined area with international borders.
> 
> Good one!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine does not have international borders. You can't even produce a map that shows these alleged borders that doesn't say 'Partition Plan' on it LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine certainly does have international borders.  They are
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter,  _et al,_
> 
> Funny you should mention that.
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote,  _et al,_
> 
> This is an essential point.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> But you have people living there now, in the West Bank, who have been there for along time - who some here are stating should categorically kicked off the land (ethnically cleansed), to another country so that region can be inhabited by others who seem to me to have no more right to it then they do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is a very good argument, to be made on the part of the Arab Palestinian, relative to the Settlement Issue and the Oslo Accords.
> 
> But I'm not sure that anyone _(in authority)_ on the Arab Palestinian side of the talks is actually interested in serious negotiations.
> 
> Who, actually, wants to sit down and talk about solutions?
> 
> Most Respectively,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> tell us your solution...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fight until everyone on one side or the other is dead.
> Problem solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) have a similar perspective on the record.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 13. In conclusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.   (A/AC.21/10 16 February 1948)
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You and your Murderous Israeli Jews (MIG) buddies would like that wouldn't you.
Click to expand...


How stupid are you ? Do you know how to read? It's the Palestinian scum who said that.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1949 when the UN accepted them as a nation under the UN charter, it was the signing of the armistice that swung it. It is still referred to as* Palestine today as it denotes an undefined area *in the M.E. that is for ever changing.
> 
> 
> 
> An undefined area with international borders.
> 
> Good one!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine does not have international borders. You can't even produce a map that shows these alleged borders that doesn't say 'Partition Plan' on it LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine certainly does have international borders.  They are
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter,  _et al,_
> 
> Funny you should mention that.
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> tell us your solution...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fight until everyone on one side or the other is dead.
> Problem solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) have a similar perspective on the record.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 13. In conclusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.   (A/AC.21/10 16 February 1948)
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You and your Murderous Israeli Jews (MIG) buddies would like that wouldn't you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews? You little filth, take a good look on your buddies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Took a clip from a Jewish wedding? Or a Hasbara Photoshop?
Click to expand...


No propaganda - tici, those are Palestinian savages holding organs that they jut ripped out the body 2 IDF soldiers who accidentally drove into the area.


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have that backwards.
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine,...*​The Avalon Project Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement April 3 1949
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*​The Avalon Project Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement February 24 1949
> 
> In 1949 that territory was Palestine. When did Israel acquire that territory?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1949 when the UN accepted them as a nation under the UN charter, it was the signing of the armistice that swung it. It is still referred to as* Palestine today as it denotes an undefined area *in the M.E. that is for ever changing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An undefined area with international borders.
> 
> Good one!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine does not have international borders. You can't even produce a map that shows these alleged borders that doesn't say 'Partition Plan' on it LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine certainly does have international borders.  They are
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter,  _et al,_
> 
> Funny you should mention that.
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote,  _et al,_
> 
> This is an essential point.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is a very good argument, to be made on the part of the Arab Palestinian, relative to the Settlement Issue and the Oslo Accords.
> 
> But I'm not sure that anyone _(in authority)_ on the Arab Palestinian side of the talks is actually interested in serious negotiations.
> 
> Who, actually, wants to sit down and talk about solutions?
> 
> Most Respectively,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> tell us your solution...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fight until everyone on one side or the other is dead.
> Problem solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) have a similar perspective on the record.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 13. In conclusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.   (A/AC.21/10 16 February 1948)
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You and your Murderous Israeli Jews (MIG) buddies would like that wouldn't you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How stupid are you ? Do you know how to read? It's the Palestinian scum who said that.
Click to expand...


That's my point you moron.  The Christians and Muslims said that the Jews would have to kill all of them before they would accept the partition.  They haven't accepted it, have they.


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> An undefined area with international borders.
> 
> Good one!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine does not have international borders. You can't even produce a map that shows these alleged borders that doesn't say 'Partition Plan' on it LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine certainly does have international borders.  They are
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter,  _et al,_
> 
> Funny you should mention that.
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fight until everyone on one side or the other is dead.
> Problem solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) have a similar perspective on the record.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 13. In conclusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.   (A/AC.21/10 16 February 1948)
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You and your Murderous Israeli Jews (MIG) buddies would like that wouldn't you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews? You little filth, take a good look on your buddies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Took a clip from a Jewish wedding? Or a Hasbara Photoshop?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No propaganda - tici, those are Palestinian savages holding organs that they jut ripped out the body 2 IDF soldiers who accidentally drove into the area.
Click to expand...


Yes and I'll post a clip from the night of the living dead and claim it is Jews eating babies.  You are truly a despicable piece of shit.  You have surpassed the Nazis in propaganda, in fact, you are the latter day Nazis.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1949 when the UN accepted them as a nation under the UN charter, it was the signing of the armistice that swung it. It is still referred to as* Palestine today as it denotes an undefined area *in the M.E. that is for ever changing.
> 
> 
> 
> An undefined area with international borders.
> 
> Good one!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine does not have international borders. You can't even produce a map that shows these alleged borders that doesn't say 'Partition Plan' on it LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine certainly does have international borders.  They are
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter,  _et al,_
> 
> Funny you should mention that.
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> tell us your solution...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fight until everyone on one side or the other is dead.
> Problem solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) have a similar perspective on the record.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 13. In conclusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.   (A/AC.21/10 16 February 1948)
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You and your Murderous Israeli Jews (MIG) buddies would like that wouldn't you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How stupid are you ? Do you know how to read? It's the Palestinian scum who said that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's my point you moron.  The Christians and Muslims said that the Jews would have to kill all of them before they would accept the partition.  They haven't accepted it, have they.
Click to expand...


Your stupidity knows no bounds. Here's what it says:

"The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child"


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> No propaganda - tici, those are Palestinian savages holding organs that they jut ripped out the body 2 IDF soldiers who accidentally drove into the area.


That's too fuckin'  bad!

Stop murdering their children while they play soccer on the beach and they won't have their organs removed.


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> No propaganda - tici, those are Palestinian savages holding organs that they jut ripped out the body 2 IDF soldiers who accidentally drove into the area.
> 
> 
> 
> That's too fuckin'  bad!
> 
> Stop murdering their children while they play soccer on the beach and they won't have their organs removed.
Click to expand...

You're a piece of shit.


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> An undefined area with international borders.
> 
> Good one!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine does not have international borders. You can't even produce a map that shows these alleged borders that doesn't say 'Partition Plan' on it LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine certainly does have international borders.  They are
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter,  _et al,_
> 
> Funny you should mention that.
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fight until everyone on one side or the other is dead.
> Problem solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) have a similar perspective on the record.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 13. In conclusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.   (A/AC.21/10 16 February 1948)
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You and your Murderous Israeli Jews (MIG) buddies would like that wouldn't you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How stupid are you ? Do you know how to read? It's the Palestinian scum who said that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's my point you moron.  The Christians and Muslims said that the Jews would have to kill all of them before they would accept the partition.  They haven't accepted it, have they.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your stupidity knows no bounds. Here's what it says:
> 
> "The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child"
Click to expand...


Right, the only way to establish the partition is to wipe out the Palestinians.  Why could wiping out Jews establish the Partition?  It is the Jews that wanted the Partition. You are cuckoo.


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> No propaganda - tici, those are Palestinian savages holding organs that they jut ripped out the body 2 IDF soldiers who accidentally drove into the area.
> 
> 
> 
> That's too fuckin'  bad!
> 
> Stop murdering their children while they play soccer on the beach and they won't have their organs removed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're a piece of shit.
Click to expand...


As usual when the co-conspirators in murder get called out, they can only spout personal insults.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine does not have international borders. You can't even produce a map that shows these alleged borders that doesn't say 'Partition Plan' on it LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine certainly does have international borders.  They are
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter,  _et al,_
> 
> Funny you should mention that.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) have a similar perspective on the record.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You and your Murderous Israeli Jews (MIG) buddies would like that wouldn't you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How stupid are you ? Do you know how to read? It's the Palestinian scum who said that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's my point you moron.  The Christians and Muslims said that the Jews would have to kill all of them before they would accept the partition.  They haven't accepted it, have they.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your stupidity knows no bounds. Here's what it says:
> 
> "The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right, the only way to establish the partition is to wipe out the Palestinians.  Why could wiping out Jews establish the Partition?  It is the Jews that wanted the Partition. You are cuckoo.
Click to expand...


OMG you idiot. The quote is from a Palestinian talking about wiping out the Jews. Wow. You're not normal


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> No propaganda - tici, those are Palestinian savages holding organs that they jut ripped out the body 2 IDF soldiers who accidentally drove into the area.
> 
> 
> 
> That's too fuckin'  bad!
> 
> Stop murdering their children while they play soccer on the beach and they won't have their organs removed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're a piece of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As usual when the co-conspirators in murder get called out, they can only spout personal insults.
Click to expand...


Collateral damage in a war is not murder. Only a fool would think Israel would purposely attack and kill kids playing on a beach for no reason. civilians die in war. 
Don't want war? Stop launching rockets.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> No propaganda - tici, those are Palestinian savages holding organs that they jut ripped out the body 2 IDF soldiers who accidentally drove into the area.
> 
> 
> 
> That's too fuckin'  bad!
> 
> Stop murdering their children while they play soccer on the beach and they won't have their organs removed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're a piece of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As usual when the co-conspirators in murder get called out, they can only spout personal insults.
Click to expand...

and you spew personal insults on a daily basis whenever you are presented with truth that you cannot handle.


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> and you spew personal insults on a daily basis whenever you are presented with truth that you cannot handle.


You consider calling me a piece of shit the truth?


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> Collateral damage in a war is not murder. Only a fool would think Israel would purposely attack and kill kids playing on a beach for no reason. civilians die in war.


And the IDF loses organs.




toastman said:


> Don't want war? Stop launching rockets.


Don't want rockets, end the occupation.


----------



## Hossfly

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> and you spew personal insults on a daily basis whenever you are presented with truth that you cannot handle.
> 
> 
> 
> You consider calling me a piece of shit the truth?
Click to expand...


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine certainly does have international borders.  They are
> You and your Murderous Israeli Jews (MIG) buddies would like that wouldn't you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How stupid are you ? Do you know how to read? It's the Palestinian scum who said that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's my point you moron.  The Christians and Muslims said that the Jews would have to kill all of them before they would accept the partition.  They haven't accepted it, have they.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your stupidity knows no bounds. Here's what it says:
> 
> "The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right, the only way to establish the partition is to wipe out the Palestinians.  Why could wiping out Jews establish the Partition?  It is the Jews that wanted the Partition. You are cuckoo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OMG you idiot. The quote is from a Palestinian talking about wiping out the Jews. Wow. You're not normal
Click to expand...


Read the quote again you idiot and for once think.  It was an address to the UN, he was trying to stop the Partition and said that the only way the Partition could succeed was if the Jews killed all the non-Jews.  You just can't read English or are so brainwashed it has addled your brain.


----------



## montelatici

g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child. (A/AC.21/10 16 February 1948)

The Arabs of Palestine in the beginning are the "them" at the end, you frigging ignorant, stupid moron.


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici,  _et al,_

I submit, you have no room to call anyone "frigging ignorant, stupid moron."



montelatici said:


> g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child. (A/AC.21/10 16 February 1948)
> 
> The Arabs of Palestine in the beginning are the "them" at the end, you frigging ignorant, stupid moron.


*(COMMENT)*

I have two points to make:

FIRST:  It is an excerpt on the variant of an Old Testament passage:


			
				Deuteronomy 3:4-6  English Standard Version (ESV) said:
			
		

> “We utterly destroyed them, as we did to a Sihon King of Heshbon, butterly *destroying the men, women and children of every city*."
> _SOURCE_



SECOND:  The threat passage is constructed in a very specific way.


The genocide passage _(first to wipe them out — man, woman and child)_ refers to who?
It refers "to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition."

Who is the entity that is the "power going to Palestine to enforce partition _(from the Arab perspective)_?"
It is not the Hostile Arab Palestinian.  It is the Jewish People who accepted the Partition and were exercising their right to self-determination.


Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Slyhunter

pbel said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote,  _et al,_
> 
> This is an essential point.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> But you have people living there now, in the West Bank, who have been there for along time - who some here are stating should categorically kicked off the land (ethnically cleansed), to another country so that region can be inhabited by others who seem to me to have no more right to it then they do.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both sides are stuck in that same rut.
> 
> Have you forgotten Israel's many pre-conditions over the years?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is a very good argument, to be made on the part of the Arab Palestinian, relative to the Settlement Issue and the Oslo Accords.
> 
> But I'm not sure that anyone _(in authority)_ on the Arab Palestinian side of the talks is actually interested in serious negotiations.
> 
> Who, actually, wants to sit down and talk about solutions?
> 
> Most Respectively,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> tell us your solution...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fight until everyone on one side or the other is dead.
> Problem solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, arm the Palestinians with the same armaments and make it a fair fight.
Click to expand...




pbel said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote,  _et al,_
> 
> This is an essential point.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> But you have people living there now, in the West Bank, who have been there for along time - who some here are stating should categorically kicked off the land (ethnically cleansed), to another country so that region can be inhabited by others who seem to me to have no more right to it then they do.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both sides are stuck in that same rut.
> 
> Have you forgotten Israel's many pre-conditions over the years?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is a very good argument, to be made on the part of the Arab Palestinian, relative to the Settlement Issue and the Oslo Accords.
> 
> But I'm not sure that anyone _(in authority)_ on the Arab Palestinian side of the talks is actually interested in serious negotiations.
> 
> Who, actually, wants to sit down and talk about solutions?
> 
> Most Respectively,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> tell us your solution...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fight until everyone on one side or the other is dead.
> Problem solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, arm the Palestinians with the same armaments and make it a fair fight.
Click to expand...

Doesn't work that way. Might wins. Weekends better surrender and hope their opponent is in a giving mood.


----------



## MaryL

The world is sick of Muslim apologists. Throwing stones  and chopping off heads and all that. Screw Islam. Bomb Mecca back to the stone age. Let them die for Allah if that's what they believe.


----------



## MaryL

Coyote said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews where massacred. We know  atrocities. Islam  NOW is like Germany in 1933. When the good Germans did nothing to stop the  extremists, that is what Islam is NOW, Islam does NOTHING to stop the extremists. Israel does what it has to, in self defense. Islam? it murders unarmed civilians in Europe and America. We all know what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother.  Yet another idiotic attempt to compare modern world events to the Holocaust with ignorant generalizations.
Click to expand...

Oh brother, another condescending  idiot that has no concept of history. people like you are why history repeats itself. You know everything and nothing.


----------



## Rehmani

pbel said:


> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.


It is only in favor of Jew to accept the deal as soon as possible, the longer they delay the least chance jew have.
But still I will advise to jew to give up their silly Idea that jew are special kind and masaya is coming, it just the Idea adopted by their elders to use jew race or abuse them.


----------



## Hossfly

Rehmani said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.
> 
> 
> 
> It is only in favor of Jew to accept the deal as soon as possible, the longer they delay the least chance jew have.
> But still I will advise to jew to give up their silly Idea that jew are special kind and masaya is coming, it just the Idea adopted by their elders to use jew race or abuse them.
Click to expand...

Jesus is coming soon and boy is he pissed!


----------



## Rehmani

MaryL said:


> The world is sick of Muslim apologists. Throwing stones  and chopping off heads and all that. Screw Islam. Bomb Mecca back to the stone age. Let them die for Allah if that's what they believe.


World actually sick of jew can't you see dumb. See before it is too let and tell to jew that you are not special kind and not masaya is coming please give this idea and make the world better place.


----------



## Rehmani

MaryL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews where massacred. We know  atrocities. Islam  NOW is like Germany in 1933. When the good Germans did nothing to stop the  extremists, that is what Islam is NOW, Islam does NOTHING to stop the extremists. Israel does what it has to, in self defense. Islam? it murders unarmed civilians in Europe and America. We all know what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother.  Yet another idiotic attempt to compare modern world events to the Holocaust with ignorant generalizations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh brother, another condescending  idiot that has no concept of history. people like you are why history repeats itself. You know everything and nothing.
Click to expand...

No one beleave that German killed 6 million jew and no one can prove it too may be they become Lutheran Christian as jew have this ability they can speak many languages and can practice more than one religion. So they can transform themselves in dangerous time like WII in Germany.


----------



## Hossfly

Rehmani said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews where massacred. We know  atrocities. Islam  NOW is like Germany in 1933. When the good Germans did nothing to stop the  extremists, that is what Islam is NOW, Islam does NOTHING to stop the extremists. Israel does what it has to, in self defense. Islam? it murders unarmed civilians in Europe and America. We all know what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother.  Yet another idiotic attempt to compare modern world events to the Holocaust with ignorant generalizations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh brother, another condescending  idiot that has no concept of history. people like you are why history repeats itself. You know everything and nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one beleave that German killed 6 million jew and no one can prove it too may be they become Lutheran Christian as jew have this ability they can speak many languages and can practice more than one religion. So they can transform themselves in dangerous time like WII in Germany.
Click to expand...

That's pretty deep, cousin.


----------



## ChrisL

Rehmani said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews where massacred. We know  atrocities. Islam  NOW is like Germany in 1933. When the good Germans did nothing to stop the  extremists, that is what Islam is NOW, Islam does NOTHING to stop the extremists. Israel does what it has to, in self defense. Islam? it murders unarmed civilians in Europe and America. We all know what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother.  Yet another idiotic attempt to compare modern world events to the Holocaust with ignorant generalizations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh brother, another condescending  idiot that has no concept of history. people like you are why history repeats itself. You know everything and nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one beleave that German killed 6 million jew and no one can prove it too may be they become Lutheran Christian as jew have this ability they can speak many languages and can practice more than one religion. So they can transform themselves in dangerous time like WII in Germany.
Click to expand...


  Gosh, there are so many and all kinds of crazy people on the internet.  Lol!


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  _et al,_
> 
> I submit, you have no room to call anyone "frigging ignorant, stupid moron."
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child. (A/AC.21/10 16 February 1948)
> 
> The Arabs of Palestine in the beginning are the "them" at the end, you frigging ignorant, stupid moron.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I have two points to make:
> 
> FIRST:  It is an excerpt on the variant of an Old Testament passage:
> 
> 
> 
> Deuteronomy 3:4-6  English Standard Version (ESV) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “We utterly destroyed them, as we did to a Sihon King of Heshbon, butterly *destroying the men, women and children of every city*."
> _SOURCE_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> SECOND:  The threat passage is constructed in a very specific way.
> 
> 
> The genocide passage _(first to wipe them out — man, woman and child)_ refers to who?
> It refers *"to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition."*
> 
> Who is the entity that is the "power going to Palestine to enforce partition _(from the Arab perspective)_?"
> It is not the Hostile Arab Palestinian.  It is the Jewish People who accepted the Partition and were exercising their right to self-determination.
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The Palestinians did not attack anyone. Why should foreign guns be going to Palestine?

Partition is a foreign concept imposed on the Palestinians at the point of foreign guns.

This is a violation of the Palestinian's inalienable rights.


----------



## Coyote

MaryL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews where massacred. We know  atrocities. Islam  NOW is like Germany in 1933. When the good Germans did nothing to stop the  extremists, that is what Islam is NOW, Islam does NOTHING to stop the extremists. Israel does what it has to, in self defense. Islam? it murders unarmed civilians in Europe and America. We all know what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother.  Yet another idiotic attempt to compare modern world events to the Holocaust with ignorant generalizations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh brother, another condescending  idiot that has no concept of history. people like you are why history repeats itself. You know everything and nothing.
Click to expand...


Attitudes like yours are what lead to genocide. It's a deliberately chose ignorance.  It's not that you have "no concept" of history, it's that you know just enough to distort it and use it to attack the scapegoat group du jour around the world.

The Holocaust was one conflict - one main conflict carried out in cold blood with one mastermind at it's head.

How many million were killed during the Holocaust?  Jews, Slavs, Gypsies etc etc.

Human experimentation (if you can call torture that) done clinically and cold bloodedly on Jewish children by "scientists" - not barbarians seeking a return to the 7th century.

2/3 of an entire ethnic group eliminated from the European continent in a carefully planned genocide.

The events of the 1940's and the events of today in a small section of the world - the Middle East - are not comparable. They are tragic, they constitute genocide and war crimes and they need to be stopped but they are a far cry from Nazi Germany.


----------



## Coyote

MaryL said:


> The world is sick of Muslim apologists. Throwing stones  and chopping off heads and all that. Screw Islam. Bomb Mecca back to the stone age. Let them die for Allah if that's what they believe.



Nice to see you approve of genocide.


----------



## Daniyel

Rehmani said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews where massacred. We know  atrocities. Islam  NOW is like Germany in 1933. When the good Germans did nothing to stop the  extremists, that is what Islam is NOW, Islam does NOTHING to stop the extremists. Israel does what it has to, in self defense. Islam? it murders unarmed civilians in Europe and America. We all know what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother.  Yet another idiotic attempt to compare modern world events to the Holocaust with ignorant generalizations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh brother, another condescending  idiot that has no concept of history. people like you are why history repeats itself. You know everything and nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one beleave that German killed 6 million jew and no one can prove it too may be they become Lutheran Christian as jew have this ability they can speak many languages and can practice more than one religion. So they can transform themselves in dangerous time like WII in Germany.
Click to expand...

Junior Abbas, also a lying scum, said once 5, 900, 000 Palestinians were killed by Israel, and of course a proud anti Semitic trash, now imagine this is the head of the Palestinians ..still curious why there is no peace?


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians did not attack anyone. Why should foreign guns be going to Palestine? Partition is a foreign concept imposed on the Palestinians at the point of foreign guns. This is a violation of the Palestinian's inalienable rights.


Winston Churchill of blessed memory stated "So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population.".


----------



## RoccoR

Coyote,  _et al,_

I don't really think that anyone here (in this discussion group) actually supports "genocide."  I think this is more a matter of frustration with a situation that has no obvious solutions that present themselves.  _(Even I have my moments!)_



Coyote said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The world is sick of Muslim apologists. Throwing stones  and chopping off heads and all that. Screw Islam. Bomb Mecca back to the stone age. Let them die for Allah if that's what they believe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice to see you approve of genocide.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Neither side, at this moment in time, really wants "peace" to be established on terms that are acceptable to the other.  And, afterall, the end-game here is "peace."

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ChrisL

RoccoR said:


> Coyote,  _et al,_
> 
> I don't really think that anyone here (in this discussion group) actually supports "genocide."  I think this is more a matter of frustration with a situation that has no obvious solutions that present themselves.  _(Even I have my moments!)_
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The world is sick of Muslim apologists. Throwing stones  and chopping off heads and all that. Screw Islam. Bomb Mecca back to the stone age. Let them die for Allah if that's what they believe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice to see you approve of genocide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Neither side, at this moment in time, really wants "peace" to be established on terms that are acceptable to the other.  And, afterall, the end-game here is "peace."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I disagree.  I think that the Israelis want peace, and yes on their terms because of whom they are dealing with.  I don't think any of their "demands" are unreasonable either.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Coyote,  _et al,_
> 
> I don't really think that anyone here (in this discussion group) actually supports "genocide."  I think this is more a matter of frustration with a situation that has no obvious solutions that present themselves.  _(Even I have my moments!)_
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The world is sick of Muslim apologists. Throwing stones  and chopping off heads and all that. Screw Islam. Bomb Mecca back to the stone age. Let them die for Allah if that's what they believe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice to see you approve of genocide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Neither side, at this moment in time, really wants "peace" to be established on terms that are acceptable to the other.  And, afterall, the end-game here is "peace."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

We have always tried to get peace without justice. That is why it always fails.

There will not be peace until the world decides to base peace on rights and international law. Those words have never crossed the lips of the fakesters in the peace process.


----------



## pbel

docmauser1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians did not attack anyone. Why should foreign guns be going to Palestine? Partition is a foreign concept imposed on the Palestinians at the point of foreign guns. This is a violation of the Palestinian's inalienable rights.
> 
> 
> 
> Winston Churchill of blessed memory stated "So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population.".
Click to expand...


Truman Library - Harry S. Truman 1947 Diary July 21
Harry Truman of Blessed memory wrote in his diary:The Jews, I find are very, very selfish. They care not how many Estonians, Latvians, Finns, Poles, Yugoslavs or Greeks get murdered or mistreated as D[isplaced] P[ersons] as long as the Jews get special treatment. Yet when they have power, physical, financial or political neither Hitler nor Stalin has anything on them for cruelty or mistreatment to the under dog. Put an underdog on top and it makes no difference whether his name is Russian, Jewish, Negro, Management, Labor, Mormon, Baptist he goes haywire. I've found very, very few who remember their past condition when prosperity comes.


----------



## Billo_Really

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians did not attack anyone. Why should foreign guns be going to Palestine?
> 
> Partition is a foreign concept imposed on the Palestinians at the point of foreign guns.
> 
> This is a violation of the Palestinian's inalienable rights.


The mid-term elections are coming up in 3 weeks from now and the best way to stop Israeli atrocities, is for me and my countrymen to vote out all these god-damn Israeli apologists we have in our government.  The only reason Israel is allowed to commit genocide on the Palestinian people, is because they are protected in the UNSC.  That must come to an end.


----------



## Penelope

Billo_Really said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians did not attack anyone. Why should foreign guns be going to Palestine?
> 
> Partition is a foreign concept imposed on the Palestinians at the point of foreign guns.
> 
> This is a violation of the Palestinian's inalienable rights.
> 
> 
> 
> The mid-term elections are coming up in 3 weeks from now and the best way to stop Israeli atrocities, is for me and my countrymen to vote out all these god-damn Israeli apologists we have in our government.  The only reason Israel is allowed to commit genocide on the Palestinian people, is because they are protected in the UNSC.  That must come to an end.
Click to expand...


I can't agree more, and that is the first thing I look for, unfortunately they smooch up to Israel to get a position and keep one. Hard to weed them out.


----------



## Hossfly

Billo_Really said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians did not attack anyone. Why should foreign guns be going to Palestine?
> 
> Partition is a foreign concept imposed on the Palestinians at the point of foreign guns.
> 
> This is a violation of the Palestinian's inalienable rights.
> 
> 
> 
> The mid-term elections are coming up in 3 weeks from now and the best way to stop Israeli atrocities, is for me and my countrymen to vote out all these god-damn Israeli apologists we have in our government.  The only reason Israel is allowed to commit genocide on the Palestinian people, is because they are protected in the UNSC.  That must come to an end.
Click to expand...

Thank God for ZOG!  Allahu Snackbar!


----------



## Hossfly

Penelope said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians did not attack anyone. Why should foreign guns be going to Palestine?
> 
> Partition is a foreign concept imposed on the Palestinians at the point of foreign guns.
> 
> This is a violation of the Palestinian's inalienable rights.
> 
> 
> 
> The mid-term elections are coming up in 3 weeks from now and the best way to stop Israeli atrocities, is for me and my countrymen to vote out all these god-damn Israeli apologists we have in our government.  The only reason Israel is allowed to commit genocide on the Palestinian people, is because they are protected in the UNSC.  That must come to an end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can't agree more, and that is the first thing I look for, unfortunately they smooch up to Israel to get a position and keep one. Hard to weed them out.
Click to expand...

AIPAC in action!


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## theliq

Vigilante said:


>


Vig.....Syrian Regime....methinks it would be a lot higher than the 40,000 you mentioned....just sayin, steve


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici,  _et al,_
> 
> I submit, you have no room to call anyone "frigging ignorant, stupid moron."
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child. (A/AC.21/10 16 February 1948)
> 
> The Arabs of Palestine in the beginning are the "them" at the end, you frigging ignorant, stupid moron.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I have two points to make:
> 
> FIRST:  It is an excerpt on the variant of an Old Testament passage:
> 
> 
> 
> Deuteronomy 3:4-6  English Standard Version (ESV) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “We utterly destroyed them, as we did to a Sihon King of Heshbon, butterly *destroying the men, women and children of every city*."
> _SOURCE_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> SECOND:  The threat passage is constructed in a very specific way.
> 
> 
> The genocide passage _(first to wipe them out — man, woman and child)_ refers to who?
> It refers *"to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition."*
> 
> Who is the entity that is the "power going to Palestine to enforce partition _(from the Arab perspective)_?"
> It is not the Hostile Arab Palestinian.  It is the Jewish People who accepted the Partition and were exercising their right to self-determination.
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians did not attack anyone. Why should foreign guns be going to Palestine?
> 
> Partition is a foreign concept imposed on the Palestinians at the point of foreign guns.
> 
> This is a violation of the Palestinian's inalienable rights.
Click to expand...


'The Palestinians did not attack anyone'

Well of course that is a lie. The 'Palestinians' attqcked and massacred Jews many times before Jews attacked any 'Palestinian'. We've been through this many times.


----------



## toastman

theliq said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vig.....Syrian Regime....methinks it would be a lot higher than the 40,000 you mentioned....just sayin, steve
Click to expand...


It was probably posted 2 years ago.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> What he forgets is that it is the arab league that are exerting the illegal external interference
> 
> 
> 
> That may be true with Jordan. Jordan accepted a deal from the Zionists/Britain to get $3M a year for five years and the West Bank to not attack Israel in a pre war agreement.
> 
> However, that just means that Jordan was in cahoots with the Zionists/Britain in their illegal external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *Nope the arab league denied the Palestinians the right to declare independence until after the cut off date. *Then denied them the right of return when it was offered by Israel. Since 1948 it has been the arab league that has been the external illegal interference
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is the cut off date for inalienable rights?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the case of UN res 181 it was stated that the declaration had to be in by a certain date or it would not be entertained. This in no way alters their rights in any way as they could resubmit the declaration at a later date, which they did in 1988, but have not acted on it since and still have not shown that they are capable of free determination or that they are capable of forming a viable government
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinian's right to independence and sovereignty are independent from resolution 181.
Click to expand...




 And they refused to act on this, preferring to be ruled by Jordan and Egypt from 1949 until Israel occupied the land in 1967. It took them another 20 years before they acted in part to the independence and sovereignty that is still not in place today because they don't have the intelligence to run a card game never mind a country.

Their rights all hinge on their ability, and unless they can show they have the ability then they will not be accepted as a full nation.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> The attempts Palestinians does to claim Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> You have that backwards.
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine,...*​The Avalon Project Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement April 3 1949
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*​The Avalon Project Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement February 24 1949
> 
> In 1949 that territory was Palestine. When did Israel acquire that territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The armistice agreements were between Israel and several other states. Not Palestine and other states. You're asking irrelevant questions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was at the center of the agreements because they divided Palestine into three areas of occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try again as Palestine in 1919 took in what was to become Syria, Iraq, Jordan, part of Lebanon, part of Egypt and part of Saudi. This left less than 7% of the total area of Palestine that you claim is the only Palestine that ever existed and is the only part that is of concern.
> The fact remains that no representative from the Palestinians has ever signed any treaty or agreement, and at no time was Palestine mentioned as a state in any UN resolution until 1988.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "A state" is not necessary. The right to sovereignty pre dates statehood.
Click to expand...





 Then what will they be sovereign over if they don't have a state. They cant claim anything until they prove their ability to form a government and become self sufficient.

 Now how about a link that says sovereignty predates having the state to be sovereign over ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> The attempts Palestinians does to claim Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> You have that backwards.
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine,...*​The Avalon Project Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement April 3 1949
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*​The Avalon Project Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement February 24 1949
> 
> In 1949 that territory was Palestine. When did Israel acquire that territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The armistice agreements were between Israel and several other states. Not Palestine and other states. You're asking irrelevant questions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was at the center of the agreements because they divided Palestine into three areas of occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's the dumbest thing I've ever read..
> 
> Where did you read "divided Palestine into three area of occupation?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> — _Memo US Department of State, 4 May 1949_, FRUS, 1949, p. 973.: _"One of the most important problems which must be clared up before a lasting peace can be established in Palestine is the question of the more than 700,000 Arab refugees who during the Palestine conflict fled from their homes *in what is now Israeli occupied territory *and are at present living as refugees in Arab Palestine and the neighbouring Arab states."_;​FRUS Foreign relations of the United States 1949. The Near East South Asia and Africa Israel
> 
> Edit:
> The armistice lines were known afterwards as the "Green Line". The Gaza Strip and the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) were occupied by Egypt and Jordan respectively.
> 
> 1948 Arab Israeli War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...





 So they abandoned their property giving up all claims by doing so according to your link. so what do you want the world to do about it.
 And the green line was never a border, just as Palestine was never a state. And as the UN resolutions that the Palestinians have signed to abide to state before Palestine can become a state it needs to negotiate peace and mutual borders.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> You almost have it right.  See Posting in the alternate thread.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "A state" is not necessary. The right to sovereignty pre dates statehood.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> "Statehood" is a manifestation and evidence that the "right to self-determination" _(sovereignty and independence)_ were successfully exercised.
> 
> As the Hostile Arab Palestinian already know, _from the 1970 attempts to kill HM The King of the Hashemite Kingdom_, such attempts can fail and be crushed.  Just having the "right" doesn't mean that the there is not a measure of successful implementation required (actual work).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, it would require the removal of illegal external interference.
Click to expand...





 Which all the history books show is coming from the arab league, who still do not recognise Palestine as a nation


----------



## Penelope

Hossfly said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians did not attack anyone. Why should foreign guns be going to Palestine?
> 
> Partition is a foreign concept imposed on the Palestinians at the point of foreign guns.
> 
> This is a violation of the Palestinian's inalienable rights.
> 
> 
> 
> The mid-term elections are coming up in 3 weeks from now and the best way to stop Israeli atrocities, is for me and my countrymen to vote out all these god-damn Israeli apologists we have in our government.  The only reason Israel is allowed to commit genocide on the Palestinian people, is because they are protected in the UNSC.  That must come to an end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can't agree more, and that is the first thing I look for, unfortunately they smooch up to Israel to get a position and keep one. Hard to weed them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> AIPAC in action!
Click to expand...


The sooner AIPAC is a distant memory , the better.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> You almost have it right.  See Posting in the alternate thread.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "A state" is not necessary. The right to sovereignty pre dates statehood.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> "Statehood" is a manifestation and evidence that the "right to self-determination" _(sovereignty and independence)_ were successfully exercised.
> 
> As the Hostile Arab Palestinian already know, _from the 1970 attempts to kill HM The King of the Hashemite Kingdom_, such attempts can fail and be crushed.  Just having the "right" doesn't mean that the there is not a measure of successful implementation required (actual work).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I love it how this clown accuse the people who have been dispossessed and are held in virtual concentration camps, hostile.  You are truly a piece of work terrone.
Click to expand...




 If they attack another nation then they are hostile, and the Palestinians attacked Jordan with the intention of taking it from its rightful owners. The Jordanian army gave them a long lasting lesson that has put them in their place ever since. The mass murder of 50,000 Palestinians locked up behind barbed wire showed Arafat just what to expect if he carried on with his land theft. Do you want the rest of the Palestinians history of hostility against sovereign nations ?


----------



## Phoenall

pbel said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote,  _et al,_
> 
> This is an essential point.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> But you have people living there now, in the West Bank, who have been there for along time - who some here are stating should categorically kicked off the land (ethnically cleansed), to another country so that region can be inhabited by others who seem to me to have no more right to it then they do.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both sides are stuck in that same rut.
> 
> Have you forgotten Israel's many pre-conditions over the years?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is a very good argument, to be made on the part of the Arab Palestinian, relative to the Settlement Issue and the Oslo Accords.
> 
> But I'm not sure that anyone _(in authority)_ on the Arab Palestinian side of the talks is actually interested in serious negotiations.
> 
> Who, actually, wants to sit down and talk about solutions?
> 
> Most Respectively,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> tell us your solution...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fight until everyone on one side or the other is dead.
> Problem solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, arm the Palestinians with the same armaments and make it a fair fight.
Click to expand...




 Why should we pay for their wars, let them buy the weapons themselves. Should put a big hole in the P.A. leaders pockets and bank accounts.
  But were will they fly the planes from as the open land is too dangerous for the hamas fighters, and Israel would destroy the planes in one day. Same with the tanks cant put them in civilian areas as that would make the civilian areas military targets . Would defeat the Palestinians in about 6 days and destroy most of their infrastructure and kill 75% of the population, and guess what it would all be the Palestinians fault for being stupid. So another BLACK SEPTEMBER FOR THE PALESTINIANS COURTESY OF YOU AND THEIR LEADERS.


----------



## Phoenall

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici,  _et al,_
> 
> I submit, you have no room to call anyone "frigging ignorant, stupid moron."
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child. (A/AC.21/10 16 February 1948)
> 
> The Arabs of Palestine in the beginning are the "them" at the end, you frigging ignorant, stupid moron.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I have two points to make:
> 
> FIRST:  It is an excerpt on the variant of an Old Testament passage:
> 
> 
> 
> Deuteronomy 3:4-6  English Standard Version (ESV) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “We utterly destroyed them, as we did to a Sihon King of Heshbon, butterly *destroying the men, women and children of every city*."
> _SOURCE_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> SECOND:  The threat passage is constructed in a very specific way.
> 
> 
> The genocide passage _(first to wipe them out — man, woman and child)_ refers to who?
> It refers *"to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition."*
> 
> Who is the entity that is the "power going to Palestine to enforce partition _(from the Arab perspective)_?"
> It is not the Hostile Arab Palestinian.  It is the Jewish People who accepted the Partition and were exercising their right to self-determination.
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians did not attack anyone. Why should foreign guns be going to Palestine?
> 
> Partition is a foreign concept imposed on the Palestinians at the point of foreign guns.
> 
> This is a violation of the Palestinian's inalienable rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 'The Palestinians did not attack anyone'
> 
> Well of course that is a lie. The 'Palestinians' attqcked and massacred Jews many times before Jews attacked any 'Palestinian'. We've been through this many times.
Click to expand...




 They also attacked Jordan who wiped out 50,000 Palestinians for their sins. They attacked Lebanon and the Christians wiped out about the same numbers. Then they attacked Egypt who destroyed their homes and wiped out about 2,000 in one day. So they are now going for the soft touch and getting destroyed every time.


----------



## Phoenall

Penelope said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians did not attack anyone. Why should foreign guns be going to Palestine?
> 
> Partition is a foreign concept imposed on the Palestinians at the point of foreign guns.
> 
> This is a violation of the Palestinian's inalienable rights.
> 
> 
> 
> The mid-term elections are coming up in 3 weeks from now and the best way to stop Israeli atrocities, is for me and my countrymen to vote out all these god-damn Israeli apologists we have in our government.  The only reason Israel is allowed to commit genocide on the Palestinian people, is because they are protected in the UNSC.  That must come to an end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can't agree more, and that is the first thing I look for, unfortunately they smooch up to Israel to get a position and keep one. Hard to weed them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> AIPAC in action!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The sooner AIPAC is a distant memory , the better.
Click to expand...




 Why when the biggest spenders on influencing the American government are Saudi, Pakistan, Qatar and the gun lobby, AIPAC comes in at about 10th in he list of influential lobbyists


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have that backwards.
> (d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the *southernmost tip of Palestine,...*​The Avalon Project Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement April 3 1949
> 
> 4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of *entering Palestine.*​The Avalon Project Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement February 24 1949
> 
> In 1949 that territory was Palestine. When did Israel acquire that territory?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The armistice agreements were between Israel and several other states. Not Palestine and other states. You're asking irrelevant questions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was at the center of the agreements because they divided Palestine into three areas of occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try again as Palestine in 1919 took in what was to become Syria, Iraq, Jordan, part of Lebanon, part of Egypt and part of Saudi. This left less than 7% of the total area of Palestine that you claim is the only Palestine that ever existed and is the only part that is of concern.
> The fact remains that no representative from the Palestinians has ever signed any treaty or agreement, and at no time was Palestine mentioned as a state in any UN resolution until 1988.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "A state" is not necessary. The right to sovereignty pre dates statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then what will they be sovereign over if they don't have a state. They cant claim anything until they prove their ability to form a government and become self sufficient.
> 
> Now how about a link that says sovereignty predates having the state to be sovereign over ?
Click to expand...

Sure.
--------------------
1. The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and co-operation.

*2. All peoples have the right to self-determination;* by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.

4. All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them *to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected.*

*5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence,* to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy *complete independence and freedom.*

*6. Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.*

7. All States shall observe faithfully and strictly the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the present Declaration on the basis of equality, non-interference in the internal affairs of all States, and respect for the sovereign rights of all peoples and their territorial integrity.

The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration


----------



## pbel

Phoenall said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians did not attack anyone. Why should foreign guns be going to Palestine?
> 
> Partition is a foreign concept imposed on the Palestinians at the point of foreign guns.
> 
> This is a violation of the Palestinian's inalienable rights.
> 
> 
> 
> The mid-term elections are coming up in 3 weeks from now and the best way to stop Israeli atrocities, is for me and my countrymen to vote out all these god-damn Israeli apologists we have in our government.  The only reason Israel is allowed to commit genocide on the Palestinian people, is because they are protected in the UNSC.  That must come to an end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can't agree more, and that is the first thing I look for, unfortunately they smooch up to Israel to get a position and keep one. Hard to weed them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> AIPAC in action!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The sooner AIPAC is a distant memory , the better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why when the biggest spenders on influencing the American government are Saudi, Pakistan, Qatar and the gun lobby, AIPAC comes in at about 10th in he list of influential lobbyists
Click to expand...

AIPAC directs many affiliates to buy politicians than anyone in the USA and counted together it is the largest


Phoenall said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians did not attack anyone. Why should foreign guns be going to Palestine?
> 
> Partition is a foreign concept imposed on the Palestinians at the point of foreign guns.
> 
> This is a violation of the Palestinian's inalienable rights.
> 
> 
> 
> The mid-term elections are coming up in 3 weeks from now and the best way to stop Israeli atrocities, is for me and my countrymen to vote out all these god-damn Israeli apologists we have in our government.  The only reason Israel is allowed to commit genocide on the Palestinian people, is because they are protected in the UNSC.  That must come to an end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can't agree more, and that is the first thing I look for, unfortunately they smooch up to Israel to get a position and keep one. Hard to weed them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> AIPAC in action!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The sooner AIPAC is a distant memory , the better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why when the biggest spenders on influencing the American government are Saudi, Pakistan, Qatar and the gun lobby, AIPAC comes in at about 10th in he list of influential lobbyists
Click to expand...


Phoney you are lying again...AIPAC has many affiliates and in total is either number one or two in contributions and certainly by far for a foreign country...It is an agent for Israel, period.


----------



## Kondor3

Sounds like the Jews of Israel conduct a much better lobbying campaign than do the Arabs.

No surprise... the Jews do _most_ things far better than the Arabs... this is just one more.


----------



## Penelope

Kondor3 said:


> Sounds like the Jews of Israel conduct a much better lobbying campaign than do the Arabs.
> 
> No surprise... the Jews do _most_ things far better than the Arabs... this is just one more.



Well lets see they've been running the US since they came over here in the beginning of the 19 century, so yeah, they do run our government and have been. Time for it to end. They do not do most things better, unless you mean underhandedness, l  propaganda and ability to spider web throughout our government and media. Money, and how they earned it is suspect as well. Largest mafia in the US was Jewish, not Italian.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Penelope said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like the Jews of Israel conduct a much better lobbying campaign than do the Arabs.
> 
> No surprise... the Jews do _most_ things far better than the Arabs... this is just one more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Well lets see they've been running the US since they came over here in the beginning of the 19 century,* so yeah, they do run our government and have been. Time for it to end. They do not do most things better, unless you mean underhandedness, l  propaganda and ability to spider web throughout our government and media. Money, and how they earned it is suspect as well. Largest mafia in the US was Jewish, not Italian.
Click to expand...


And boy have they fucked things up!

So much for doing everything better.


----------



## Kondor3

Penelope said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like the Jews of Israel conduct a much better lobbying campaign than do the Arabs.
> 
> No surprise... the Jews do _most_ things far better than the Arabs... this is just one more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well lets see they've been running the US since they came over here in the beginning of the 19 century, so yeah, they do run our government and have been...
Click to expand...








Dang-blasted Jooooooosss !!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







  It's all part of a _Worldwide Jooooish Kornspiracy_, I tellz ya !!!


----------



## Penelope

Kondor3 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like the Jews of Israel conduct a much better lobbying campaign than do the Arabs.
> 
> No surprise... the Jews do _most_ things far better than the Arabs... this is just one more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well lets see they've been running the US since they came over here in the beginning of the 19 century, so yeah, they do run our government and have been...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dang-blasted Jooooooosss !!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's all part of a _Worldwide Jooooish Kornspiracy_, I tellz ya !!!
Click to expand...




Kondor3 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like the Jews of Israel conduct a much better lobbying campaign than do the Arabs.
> 
> No surprise... the Jews do _most_ things far better than the Arabs... this is just one more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well lets see they've been running the US since they came over here in the beginning of the 19 century, so yeah, they do run our government and have been...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dang-blasted Jooooooosss !!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's all part of a _Worldwide Jooooish Kornspiracy_, I tellz ya !!!
Click to expand...


Your in denial.


----------



## Rehmani

ChrisL said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews where massacred. We know  atrocities. Islam  NOW is like Germany in 1933. When the good Germans did nothing to stop the  extremists, that is what Islam is NOW, Islam does NOTHING to stop the extremists. Israel does what it has to, in self defense. Islam? it murders unarmed civilians in Europe and America. We all know what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother.  Yet another idiotic attempt to compare modern world events to the Holocaust with ignorant generalizations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh brother, another condescending  idiot that has no concept of history. people like you are why history repeats itself. You know everything and nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one beleave that German killed 6 million jew and no one can prove it too may be they become Lutheran Christian as jew have this ability they can speak many languages and can practice more than one religion. So they can transform themselves in dangerous time like WII in Germany.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gosh, there are so many and all kinds of crazy people on the internet.  Lol![/QUOTE
> People should know the fact about jew, why they keep themselves so secret.
Click to expand...


----------



## Kondor3

Penelope said:


> ...Your in denial.


Uhhhhh... yeah... right... tell your _Sturmbannführer_ that I said "Nice try."


----------



## Rehmani

Daniyel said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews where massacred. We know  atrocities. Islam  NOW is like Germany in 1933. When the good Germans did nothing to stop the  extremists, that is what Islam is NOW, Islam does NOTHING to stop the extremists. Israel does what it has to, in self defense. Islam? it murders unarmed civilians in Europe and America. We all know what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother.  Yet another idiotic attempt to compare modern world events to the Holocaust with ignorant generalizations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh brother, another condescending  idiot that has no concept of history. people like you are why history repeats itself. You know everything and nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one beleave that German killed 6 million jew and no one can prove it too may be they become Lutheran Christian as jew have this ability they can speak many languages and can practice more than one religion. So they can transform themselves in dangerous time like WII in Germany.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Junior Abbas, also a lying scum, said once 5, 900, 000 Palestinians were killed by Israel, and of course a proud anti Semitic trash, now imagine this is the head of the Palestinians ..still curious why there is no peace?
Click to expand...

It is already discuss on this forum and reports confirm by the international observer. Israel army is involve in war crime against innocent civilian.


----------



## pbel

Kondor3 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Your in denial.
> 
> 
> 
> Uhhhhh... yeah... right... tell your _Sturmbannführer_ that I said "Nice try."
Click to expand...

Very Limp answer!


----------



## ChrisL

Rehmani said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews where massacred. We know  atrocities. Islam  NOW is like Germany in 1933. When the good Germans did nothing to stop the  extremists, that is what Islam is NOW, Islam does NOTHING to stop the extremists. Israel does what it has to, in self defense. Islam? it murders unarmed civilians in Europe and America. We all know what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother.  Yet another idiotic attempt to compare modern world events to the Holocaust with ignorant generalizations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh brother, another condescending  idiot that has no concept of history. people like you are why history repeats itself. You know everything and nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one beleave that German killed 6 million jew and no one can prove it too may be they become Lutheran Christian as jew have this ability they can speak many languages and can practice more than one religion. So they can transform themselves in dangerous time like WII in Germany.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Junior Abbas, also a lying scum, said once 5, 900, 000 Palestinians were killed by Israel, and of course a proud anti Semitic trash, now imagine this is the head of the Palestinians ..still curious why there is no peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is already discuss on this forum and reports confirm by the international observer. Israel army is involve in war crime against innocent civilian.
Click to expand...


Because, as has been stated and proven multiple times on this and other forums, the Palestinians use the people as human shields.  I'm sure sometimes the people are collaborating with them, and other times it is against their will, but the fact is that the terrorists oftentimes use the civilians as "pawns" in their sick little game.  True story.


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Your in denial.
> 
> 
> 
> Uhhhhh... yeah... right... tell your _Sturmbannführer_ that I said "Nice try."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very Limp answer!
Click to expand...

Not before I've had my first cup of coffee, pissant... now... go dry-hump somebody else's pants-leg, eh?

Frankly, combating anti-semitism online - such as that manifested by our colleague Penelope in that post - is not limp at at - rather, it's actually quite firm, and righteous, and precisely targeted.

It's a little too early in the morning for the _Hate-the-Jews Brigade_ to be out of bed, isn't it?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ChrisL said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother.  Yet another idiotic attempt to compare modern world events to the Holocaust with ignorant generalizations.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother, another condescending  idiot that has no concept of history. people like you are why history repeats itself. You know everything and nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one beleave that German killed 6 million jew and no one can prove it too may be they become Lutheran Christian as jew have this ability they can speak many languages and can practice more than one religion. So they can transform themselves in dangerous time like WII in Germany.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Junior Abbas, also a lying scum, said once 5, 900, 000 Palestinians were killed by Israel, and of course a proud anti Semitic trash, now imagine this is the head of the Palestinians ..still curious why there is no peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is already discuss on this forum and reports confirm by the international observer. Israel army is involve in war crime against innocent civilian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because, as has been stated and proven multiple times on this and other forums, the Palestinians use the people as human shields.  I'm sure sometimes the people are collaborating with them, and other times it is against their will, but the fact is that the terrorists oftentimes use the civilians as "pawns" in their sick little game.  True story.
Click to expand...

Yeah, yeah, Israel sang that same song when they were bombing the crap out of civilians in Lebanon.


----------



## Penelope

ChrisL said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother.  Yet another idiotic attempt to compare modern world events to the Holocaust with ignorant generalizations.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother, another condescending  idiot that has no concept of history. people like you are why history repeats itself. You know everything and nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one beleave that German killed 6 million jew and no one can prove it too may be they become Lutheran Christian as jew have this ability they can speak many languages and can practice more than one religion. So they can transform themselves in dangerous time like WII in Germany.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Junior Abbas, also a lying scum, said once 5, 900, 000 Palestinians were killed by Israel, and of course a proud anti Semitic trash, now imagine this is the head of the Palestinians ..still curious why there is no peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is already discuss on this forum and reports confirm by the international observer. Israel army is involve in war crime against innocent civilian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because, as has been stated and proven multiple times on this and other forums, the Palestinians use the people as human shields.  I'm sure sometimes the people are collaborating with them, and other times it is against their will, but the fact is that the terrorists oftentimes use the civilians as "pawns" in their sick little game.  True story.
Click to expand...


The only proof you have of that, is the spread of the gossip and Israel telling you this.  The IDF used Pals as human shields, so quit sounding like a broken record,


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother, another condescending  idiot that has no concept of history. people like you are why history repeats itself. You know everything and nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> No one beleave that German killed 6 million jew and no one can prove it too may be they become Lutheran Christian as jew have this ability they can speak many languages and can practice more than one religion. So they can transform themselves in dangerous time like WII in Germany.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Junior Abbas, also a lying scum, said once 5, 900, 000 Palestinians were killed by Israel, and of course a proud anti Semitic trash, now imagine this is the head of the Palestinians ..still curious why there is no peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is already discuss on this forum and reports confirm by the international observer. Israel army is involve in war crime against innocent civilian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because, as has been stated and proven multiple times on this and other forums, the Palestinians use the people as human shields.  I'm sure sometimes the people are collaborating with them, and other times it is against their will, but the fact is that the terrorists oftentimes use the civilians as "pawns" in their sick little game.  True story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, Israel sang that same song when they were bombing the crap out of civilians in Lebanon.
Click to expand...

Probably because the same conditions applied while they were bombing the crap out of Hezbollah in Lebanon.


----------



## Penelope

Kondor3 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Your in denial.
> 
> 
> 
> Uhhhhh... yeah... right... tell your _Sturmbannführer_ that I said "Nice try."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very Limp answer!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not before I've had my first cup of coffee, pissant... now... go dry-hump somebody else's pants-leg, eh?
> 
> Frankly, combating anti-semitism online - such as that manifested by our colleague Penelope in that post - is not limp at at - rather, it's actually quite firm, and righteous, and precisely targeted.
> 
> It's a little too early in the morning for the _Hate-the-Jews Brigade_ to be out of bed, isn't it?
Click to expand...


Its a little late to be getting up isn't it?  Prove  whatever I said is inaccurate.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one beleave that German killed 6 million jew and no one can prove it too may be they become Lutheran Christian as jew have this ability they can speak many languages and can practice more than one religion. So they can transform themselves in dangerous time like WII in Germany.
> 
> 
> 
> Junior Abbas, also a lying scum, said once 5, 900, 000 Palestinians were killed by Israel, and of course a proud anti Semitic trash, now imagine this is the head of the Palestinians ..still curious why there is no peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is already discuss on this forum and reports confirm by the international observer. Israel army is involve in war crime against innocent civilian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because, as has been stated and proven multiple times on this and other forums, the Palestinians use the people as human shields.  I'm sure sometimes the people are collaborating with them, and other times it is against their will, but the fact is that the terrorists oftentimes use the civilians as "pawns" in their sick little game.  True story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, Israel sang that same song when they were bombing the crap out of civilians in Lebanon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Probably because the same conditions applied while they were bombing the crap out of Hezbollah in Lebanon.
Click to expand...

And Israel could not think of a new lie.


----------



## pbel

Kondor3 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Your in denial.
> 
> 
> 
> Uhhhhh... yeah... right... tell your _Sturmbannführer_ that I said "Nice try."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very Limp answer!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not before I've had my first cup of coffee, pissant... now... go dry-hump somebody else's pants-leg, eh?
> 
> Frankly, combating anti-semitism online - such as that manifested by our colleague Penelope in that post - is not limp at at - rather, it's actually quite firm, and righteous, and precisely targeted.
> 
> It's a little too early in the morning for the _Hate-the-Jews Brigade_ to be out of bed, isn't it?
Click to expand...

Cry us a river, Limpy...


----------



## Rehmani

ChrisL said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother.  Yet another idiotic attempt to compare modern world events to the Holocaust with ignorant generalizations.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother, another condescending  idiot that has no concept of history. people like you are why history repeats itself. You know everything and nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one beleave that German killed 6 million jew and no one can prove it too may be they become Lutheran Christian as jew have this ability they can speak many languages and can practice more than one religion. So they can transform themselves in dangerous time like WII in Germany.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Junior Abbas, also a lying scum, said once 5, 900, 000 Palestinians were killed by Israel, and of course a proud anti Semitic trash, now imagine this is the head of the Palestinians ..still curious why there is no peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is already discuss on this forum and reports confirm by the international observer. Israel army is involve in war crime against innocent civilian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because, as has been stated and proven multiple times on this and other forums, the Palestinians use the people as human shields.  I'm sure sometimes the people are collaborating with them, and other times it is against their will, but the fact is that the terrorists oftentimes use the civilians as "pawns" in their sick little game.  True story.
Click to expand...

But you can not punished whole nation if some one killed on jew, can you or is it right to do that.


----------



## ChrisL

Rehmani said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother, another condescending  idiot that has no concept of history. people like you are why history repeats itself. You know everything and nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> No one beleave that German killed 6 million jew and no one can prove it too may be they become Lutheran Christian as jew have this ability they can speak many languages and can practice more than one religion. So they can transform themselves in dangerous time like WII in Germany.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Junior Abbas, also a lying scum, said once 5, 900, 000 Palestinians were killed by Israel, and of course a proud anti Semitic trash, now imagine this is the head of the Palestinians ..still curious why there is no peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is already discuss on this forum and reports confirm by the international observer. Israel army is involve in war crime against innocent civilian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because, as has been stated and proven multiple times on this and other forums, the Palestinians use the people as human shields.  I'm sure sometimes the people are collaborating with them, and other times it is against their will, but the fact is that the terrorists oftentimes use the civilians as "pawns" in their sick little game.  True story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But you can not punished whole nation if some one killed on jew, can you or is it right to do that.
Click to expand...


Well, for one thing, it has been many, many more than just one Jew who has been killed.  Israel has been dealing with terrorism for a very long time, much longer than the United States.  

Do you think that Israel should not fight back?  Do you think they should lie down and die?  If they have the might and the fortitude, should they not fight for their country?  Why on earth would they not use their military might to defeat a declared enemy?    The expectations are quite comical actually.  No other nation in the world that is a victim of daily bombings from an enemy who has declared that their goal is to wipe out said nation would be asked to take such ridiculous measures.


----------



## ChrisL

P F Tinmore said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother, another condescending  idiot that has no concept of history. people like you are why history repeats itself. You know everything and nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> No one beleave that German killed 6 million jew and no one can prove it too may be they become Lutheran Christian as jew have this ability they can speak many languages and can practice more than one religion. So they can transform themselves in dangerous time like WII in Germany.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Junior Abbas, also a lying scum, said once 5, 900, 000 Palestinians were killed by Israel, and of course a proud anti Semitic trash, now imagine this is the head of the Palestinians ..still curious why there is no peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is already discuss on this forum and reports confirm by the international observer. Israel army is involve in war crime against innocent civilian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because, as has been stated and proven multiple times on this and other forums, the Palestinians use the people as human shields.  I'm sure sometimes the people are collaborating with them, and other times it is against their will, but the fact is that the terrorists oftentimes use the civilians as "pawns" in their sick little game.  True story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, Israel sang that same song when they were bombing the crap out of civilians in Lebanon.
Click to expand...


Yes, terrorists tend to all use the same terrorist tactics.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ChrisL said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one beleave that German killed 6 million jew and no one can prove it too may be they become Lutheran Christian as jew have this ability they can speak many languages and can practice more than one religion. So they can transform themselves in dangerous time like WII in Germany.
> 
> 
> 
> Junior Abbas, also a lying scum, said once 5, 900, 000 Palestinians were killed by Israel, and of course a proud anti Semitic trash, now imagine this is the head of the Palestinians ..still curious why there is no peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is already discuss on this forum and reports confirm by the international observer. Israel army is involve in war crime against innocent civilian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because, as has been stated and proven multiple times on this and other forums, the Palestinians use the people as human shields.  I'm sure sometimes the people are collaborating with them, and other times it is against their will, but the fact is that the terrorists oftentimes use the civilians as "pawns" in their sick little game.  True story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But you can not punished whole nation if some one killed on jew, can you or is it right to do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, for one thing, it has been many, many more than just one Jew who has been killed.  Israel has been dealing with terrorism for a very long time, much longer than the United States.
> 
> Do you think that Israel should not fight back?  Do you think they should lie down and die?  If they have the might and the fortitude, should they not fight for their country?  Why on earth would they not use their military might to defeat a declared enemy?    The expectations are quite comical actually.  No other nation in the world that is a victim of daily bombings from an enemy who has declared that their goal is to wipe out said nation would be asked to take such ridiculous measures.
Click to expand...

It all goes back to the occupation.


----------



## Daniyel

Aww so now Israel is being accused for the time who knows what for inhumanity behavior, let me correct that, THE JEWS are being accused, pff modern blood libels, never was close to be true, but like the Hebrew saying 'Faith is the easiest and hardest thing to achieve in life', nailed it.


----------



## montelatici

Killing several hundred children in a span of a few weeks this summer is inhuman.  No other country could get away with it without being criticized and sanctioned.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

This is actually kind of cute.



P F Tinmore said:


> 1. The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and co-operation.


*(COMMENT)*

Israel has not subjugated the Arab Palestinian.  It has instituted a program of anti-terrorism and counter-insurgency directed against a people that have openly threatened the sovereign integrity of the Jewish State of Israel.  Attempts to enter into good faith negotiations have met with negative results.  The security measures instituted are those necessary to suppress (not subjugate) attempts by Hostile Arab Palestinians from conducting attacks, suicide bombing, rocket and mortar barrages, kidnappings and murders, piracy and hijackings, infiltrations and assaults, and other hostile actions directed against the nation and its citizens. 




P F Tinmore said:


> *2. All peoples have the right to self-determination;*





P F Tinmore said:


> by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.


*(COMMENT)*

Israel has not suppressed the Arab Palestinian "right to self-determination" (RoS-D). The Palestinian People have:


The Arab Palestinian exercised the RoS-D when they rejected the formation of the Arab Agency.
The Arab Palestinian exercised the RoS-D when they rejected the Partition Plan.
The Arab Palestinian exercised the RoS-D when they joined the Jordanian Parliament and accepted Jordanian Annexation and Citizenship.
The Arab Palestinian exercised the RoS-D when they Declared Independence.



P F Tinmore said:


> 3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.


*(COMMENT)*

Israel did not delay the independence of Palestine.



P F Tinmore said:


> 4. All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them *to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected. *


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinian has not attempted to exist peacefully with the Jewish State of Israel in more that a Half Century.  The current policy of the government of Palestine is:

1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures. 

2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim.​



P F Tinmore said:


> *5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence,*





P F Tinmore said:


> to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy *complete independence and freedom.  *


*(COMMENT)*

The State of Palestine is not a "non-self-governing" territory; it claims to have a "unity government."  The fact that it has not been a "successful government" is the fault of the Palestinian Leadership.  The fact that it is dependent and survives purely on external donor contributions is again --- the fault of the Palestinian People to make a successful going concern of it.

The fact that it is not totally free is again, the fault of the Palestinian People in their focus to conduct wars, terrorism, and insurgencies, that make them a threat to regional peace and security:

The Palestinian have made it clear that:

On this basis the Palestinian masses, regardless of whether they are residing in the national homeland or in Diaspora (mahajir) constitute- both their organizations and the individuals- one national front working for the retrieval of Palestine and its liberation through armed struggle.

Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. This is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase. The Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it.


Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the greater Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.


Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.
There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. ​
In the face of such a declaration, the State of Israel must take what measures are necessary to suppress the Hostile Arab Palestinian in any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of the Jewish State of Israel.




P F Tinmore said:


> *6. Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.  *


*(COMMENT)*

Israel was established in accordance with the UN Partition Plan as implemented by the UN Palestine Commission on behalf of the Security Council.  Since that time, the Hostile Arab Palestinian has been instrumental in the instigation of various wars and conflicts "aimed at the partial or total disruption of Israeli national unity.



P F Tinmore said:


> 7. All States shall observe faithfully and strictly the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the present Declaration on the basis of equality, non-interference in the internal affairs of all States, and respect for the sovereign rights of all peoples and their territorial integrity.


*(COMMENT)*

Israel was the entity attacked by five Arab Armies (external interference) on behalf of the Hostile Arab Palestinian.




P F Tinmore said:


> The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration


*(COMMENT)*

Israel is not a colonial power.  It is not now, nor has it ever been a colonial power.  Israel has not established any colony in the West Bank or Gaza Strip outside the Settlements Areas negotiated in the Oslo Accords, pursuant to that agreed upon by the sole representative of the Palestinians people.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> Yeah, yeah, Israel sang that same song when they were bombing the crap out of civilians in Lebanon.


All terrorist thugs are civilians, and those ones were full of crap too.


----------



## Hossfly

Rehmani said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews where massacred. We know  atrocities. Islam  NOW is like Germany in 1933. When the good Germans did nothing to stop the  extremists, that is what Islam is NOW, Islam does NOTHING to stop the extremists. Israel does what it has to, in self defense. Islam? it murders unarmed civilians in Europe and America. We all know what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother.  Yet another idiotic attempt to compare modern world events to the Holocaust with ignorant generalizations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh brother, another condescending  idiot that has no concept of history. people like you are why history repeats itself. You know everything and nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one beleave that German killed 6 million jew and no one can prove it too may be they become Lutheran Christian as jew have this ability they can speak many languages and can practice more than one religion. So they can transform themselves in dangerous time like WII in Germany.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Junior Abbas, also a lying scum, said once 5, 900, 000 Palestinians were killed by Israel, and of course a proud anti Semitic trash, now imagine this is the head of the Palestinians ..still curious why there is no peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is already discuss on this forum and reports confirm by the international observer. Israel army is involve in war crime against innocent civilian.
Click to expand...


----------



## pbel

Hossfly said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother.  Yet another idiotic attempt to compare modern world events to the Holocaust with ignorant generalizations.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother, another condescending  idiot that has no concept of history. people like you are why history repeats itself. You know everything and nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one beleave that German killed 6 million jew and no one can prove it too may be they become Lutheran Christian as jew have this ability they can speak many languages and can practice more than one religion. So they can transform themselves in dangerous time like WII in Germany.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Junior Abbas, also a lying scum, said once 5, 900, 000 Palestinians were killed by Israel, and of course a proud anti Semitic trash, now imagine this is the head of the Palestinians ..still curious why there is no peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is already discuss on this forum and reports confirm by the international observer. Israel army is involve in war crime against innocent civilian.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Oh oh, ya'll must be snoring in the outhouse again, wake up!


----------



## pbel

Daniyel said:


> Aww so now Israel is being accused for the time who knows what for inhumanity behavior, let me correct that, THE JEWS are being accused, pff modern blood libels, never was close to be true, but like the Hebrew saying 'Faith is the easiest and hardest thing to achieve in life', nailed it.


Faith in what? Believing in the Old Testament or Torah of maiming and killing of all women and children as the Moon god Yahweh instructs? It goes on today!


----------



## Daniyel

pbel said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aww so now Israel is being accused for the time who knows what for inhumanity behavior, let me correct that, THE JEWS are being accused, pff modern blood libels, never was close to be true, but like the Hebrew saying 'Faith is the easiest and hardest thing to achieve in life', nailed it.
> 
> 
> 
> Faith in what? Believing in the Old Testament or Torah of maiming and killing of all women and children as the Moon god Yahweh instructs?
Click to expand...

Shallow as always, your ignorant and useless mentality of make-noise-think-less combined with premature issues drove you all the way to spreading those lies as truth, pity pbel.


----------



## Kondor3

Penelope said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Your in denial.
> 
> 
> 
> Uhhhhh... yeah... right... tell your _Sturmbannführer_ that I said "Nice try."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very Limp answer!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not before I've had my first cup of coffee, pissant... now... go dry-hump somebody else's pants-leg, eh?
> 
> Frankly, combating anti-semitism online - such as that manifested by our colleague Penelope in that post - is not limp at at - rather, it's actually quite firm, and righteous, and precisely targeted.
> 
> It's a little too early in the morning for the _Hate-the-Jews Brigade_ to be out of bed, isn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its a little late to be getting up isn't it?  Prove  whatever I said is inaccurate.
Click to expand...

The burden of proof is not upon me.

If you think you can prove that Jews control America, by all means, have at it.

But expect each and every source and each and every article or link and each and every opinion and conclusion to be required to withstand the most extreme scrutiny before it passes muster.


----------



## Penelope

docmauser1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians did not attack anyone. Why should foreign guns be going to Palestine? Partition is a foreign concept imposed on the Palestinians at the point of foreign guns. This is a violation of the Palestinian's inalienable rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Winston Churchill of blessed memory stated "So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population.".
Click to expand...


I'd like a link to that statement.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Junior Abbas, also a lying scum, said once 5, 900, 000 Palestinians were killed by Israel, and of course a proud anti Semitic trash, now imagine this is the head of the Palestinians ..still curious why there is no peace?
> 
> 
> 
> It is already discuss on this forum and reports confirm by the international observer. Israel army is involve in war crime against innocent civilian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because, as has been stated and proven multiple times on this and other forums, the Palestinians use the people as human shields.  I'm sure sometimes the people are collaborating with them, and other times it is against their will, but the fact is that the terrorists oftentimes use the civilians as "pawns" in their sick little game.  True story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, Israel sang that same song when they were bombing the crap out of civilians in Lebanon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Probably because the same conditions applied while they were bombing the crap out of Hezbollah in Lebanon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And Israel could not think of a new lie.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear... what 'lie' are we talking about?


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Your in denial.
> 
> 
> 
> Uhhhhh... yeah... right... tell your _Sturmbannführer_ that I said "Nice try."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very Limp answer!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not before I've had my first cup of coffee, pissant... now... go dry-hump somebody else's pants-leg, eh?
> 
> Frankly, combating anti-semitism online - such as that manifested by our colleague Penelope in that post - is not limp at at - rather, it's actually quite firm, and righteous, and precisely targeted.
> 
> It's a little too early in the morning for the _Hate-the-Jews Brigade_ to be out of bed, isn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cry us a river, Limpy...
Click to expand...

Non sequitur.


----------



## ChrisL

Kondor3 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Your in denial.
> 
> 
> 
> Uhhhhh... yeah... right... tell your _Sturmbannführer_ that I said "Nice try."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very Limp answer!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not before I've had my first cup of coffee, pissant... now... go dry-hump somebody else's pants-leg, eh?
> 
> Frankly, combating anti-semitism online - such as that manifested by our colleague Penelope in that post - is not limp at at - rather, it's actually quite firm, and righteous, and precisely targeted.
> 
> It's a little too early in the morning for the _Hate-the-Jews Brigade_ to be out of bed, isn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its a little late to be getting up isn't it?  Prove  whatever I said is inaccurate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The burden of proof is not upon me.
> 
> If you think you can prove that Jews control America, by all means, have at it.
> 
> But expect each and every source and each and every article or link and each and every opinion and conclusion to be required to withstand the most extreme scrutiny before it passes muster.
Click to expand...


Typical liberal tactic, prove a negative.    "Prove this does NOT exist."  Funny that the atheists get so angry when people challenge THEM to prove there is no God though.


----------



## pbel

Daniyel said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aww so now Israel is being accused for the time who knows what for inhumanity behavior, let me correct that, THE JEWS are being accused, pff modern blood libels, never was close to be true, but like the Hebrew saying 'Faith is the easiest and hardest thing to achieve in life', nailed it.
> 
> 
> 
> Faith in what? Believing in the Old Testament or Torah of maiming and killing of all women and children as the Moon god Yahweh instructs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Shallow as always, your ignorant and useless mentality of make-noise-think-less combined with premature issues drove you all the way to spreading those lies as truth, pity pbel.
Click to expand...

What lies are those, you sick ZioNazi...How many children did you maim as an IDF member and still applaud?


----------



## Rehmani

ChrisL said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one beleave that German killed 6 million jew and no one can prove it too may be they become Lutheran Christian as jew have this ability they can speak many languages and can practice more than one religion. So they can transform themselves in dangerous time like WII in Germany.
> 
> 
> 
> Junior Abbas, also a lying scum, said once 5, 900, 000 Palestinians were killed by Israel, and of course a proud anti Semitic trash, now imagine this is the head of the Palestinians ..still curious why there is no peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is already discuss on this forum and reports confirm by the international observer. Israel army is involve in war crime against innocent civilian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because, as has been stated and proven multiple times on this and other forums, the Palestinians use the people as human shields.  I'm sure sometimes the people are collaborating with them, and other times it is against their will, but the fact is that the terrorists oftentimes use the civilians as "pawns" in their sick little game.  True story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But you can not punished whole nation if some one killed on jew, can you or is it right to do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, for one thing, it has been many, many more than just one Jew who has been killed.  Israel has been dealing with terrorism for a very long time, much longer than the United States.
> 
> Do you think that Israel should not fight back?  Do you think they should lie down and die?  If they have the might and the fortitude, should they not fight for their country?  Why on earth would they not use their military might to defeat a declared enemy?    The expectations are quite comical actually.  No other nation in the world that is a victim of daily bombings from an enemy who has declared that their goal is to wipe out said nation would be asked to take such ridiculous measures.
Click to expand...

Then what about those Palestinian who's country Jew occupied with the help of the super powers, Israelis killed them in millions and force to live into camps. What you expect to some one in this situation like palestinians are, do you think Palestinian should love invaders.


----------



## Rehmani

ChrisL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one beleave that German killed 6 million jew and no one can prove it too may be they become Lutheran Christian as jew have this ability they can speak many languages and can practice more than one religion. So they can transform themselves in dangerous time like WII in Germany.
> 
> 
> 
> Junior Abbas, also a lying scum, said once 5, 900, 000 Palestinians were killed by Israel, and of course a proud anti Semitic trash, now imagine this is the head of the Palestinians ..still curious why there is no peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is already discuss on this forum and reports confirm by the international observer. Israel army is involve in war crime against innocent civilian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because, as has been stated and proven multiple times on this and other forums, the Palestinians use the people as human shields.  I'm sure sometimes the people are collaborating with them, and other times it is against their will, but the fact is that the terrorists oftentimes use the civilians as "pawns" in their sick little game.  True story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, Israel sang that same song when they were bombing the crap out of civilians in Lebanon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, terrorists tend to all use the same terrorist tactics.
Click to expand...

Sound like you are accepting the facts that Israelis are terrorist.


----------



## Rehmani

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is already discuss on this forum and reports confirm by the international observer. Israel army is involve in war crime against innocent civilian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because, as has been stated and proven multiple times on this and other forums, the Palestinians use the people as human shields.  I'm sure sometimes the people are collaborating with them, and other times it is against their will, but the fact is that the terrorists oftentimes use the civilians as "pawns" in their sick little game.  True story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, Israel sang that same song when they were bombing the crap out of civilians in Lebanon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Probably because the same conditions applied while they were bombing the crap out of Hezbollah in Lebanon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And Israel could not think of a new lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just to be clear... what 'lie' are we talking about?
Click to expand...

We are talking about Israel and its illegal occupation in Palestine and in this regards jew are constantly refusing the facts and delaying peace process.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> The armistice agreements were between Israel and several other states. Not Palestine and other states. You're asking irrelevant questions
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was at the center of the agreements because they divided Palestine into three areas of occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try again as Palestine in 1919 took in what was to become Syria, Iraq, Jordan, part of Lebanon, part of Egypt and part of Saudi. This left less than 7% of the total area of Palestine that you claim is the only Palestine that ever existed and is the only part that is of concern.
> The fact remains that no representative from the Palestinians has ever signed any treaty or agreement, and at no time was Palestine mentioned as a state in any UN resolution until 1988.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "A state" is not necessary. The right to sovereignty pre dates statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then what will they be sovereign over if they don't have a state. They cant claim anything until they prove their ability to form a government and become self sufficient.
> 
> Now how about a link that says sovereignty predates having the state to be sovereign over ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.
> --------------------
> 1. The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and co-operation.
> 
> *2. All peoples have the right to self-determination;* by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
> 
> 3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.
> 
> 4. All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them *to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected.*
> 
> *5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence,* to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy *complete independence and freedom.*
> 
> *6. Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.*
> 
> 7. All States shall observe faithfully and strictly the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the present Declaration on the basis of equality, non-interference in the internal affairs of all States, and respect for the sovereign rights of all peoples and their territorial integrity.
> 
> The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration
Click to expand...




1)   The Palestinians faced that under the arab league and now hamas/fatah. You cant lay that at Israel's feet as they are acting in defence.  The Palestinians constant terrorist attacks show

2)   The Palestinians have not shown that they are capable of free determination yet. After 66 years that is a disgrace.

3)   Unless the UN see it as a deciding factor to stop them for going for independence, which Palestine did in 1988 and have not done anything with it yet.

4)  Tell that to the Palestinians who are the ones instigating the violence and belligerence

5)  Granted to the Palestinians as far back as 1947 which the refused to take up, by the time they did take it up in 1988 they did not have the means to exercise it fully because of their deep seated policy of violence and belligerence.

6)   Which is what the Palestinians are doing to Israel and getting the worst of the deal in the process. Stop all violence and terrorism accept the terms of the UN charter and Resolutions and see what happens.

7)  Tell that to the Palestinians who seem to believe they are above all laws but sharia.


----------



## Phoenall

pbel said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> The mid-term elections are coming up in 3 weeks from now and the best way to stop Israeli atrocities, is for me and my countrymen to vote out all these god-damn Israeli apologists we have in our government.  The only reason Israel is allowed to commit genocide on the Palestinian people, is because they are protected in the UNSC.  That must come to an end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't agree more, and that is the first thing I look for, unfortunately they smooch up to Israel to get a position and keep one. Hard to weed them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> AIPAC in action!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The sooner AIPAC is a distant memory , the better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why when the biggest spenders on influencing the American government are Saudi, Pakistan, Qatar and the gun lobby, AIPAC comes in at about 10th in he list of influential lobbyists
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> AIPAC directs many affiliates to buy politicians than anyone in the USA and counted together it is the largest
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> The mid-term elections are coming up in 3 weeks from now and the best way to stop Israeli atrocities, is for me and my countrymen to vote out all these god-damn Israeli apologists we have in our government.  The only reason Israel is allowed to commit genocide on the Palestinian people, is because they are protected in the UNSC.  That must come to an end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can't agree more, and that is the first thing I look for, unfortunately they smooch up to Israel to get a position and keep one. Hard to weed them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> AIPAC in action!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The sooner AIPAC is a distant memory , the better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why when the biggest spenders on influencing the American government are Saudi, Pakistan, Qatar and the gun lobby, AIPAC comes in at about 10th in he list of influential lobbyists
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Phoney you are lying again...AIPAC has many affiliates and in total is either number one or two in contributions and certainly by far for a foreign country...It is an agent for Israel, period.
Click to expand...





 Produce the evidence of this from a US government source then, as the ones already posted here show AIPAC to be 10th on the list with Islamic PAC's in the first 4 places along with the NRA


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Junior Abbas, also a lying scum, said once 5, 900, 000 Palestinians were killed by Israel, and of course a proud anti Semitic trash, now imagine this is the head of the Palestinians ..still curious why there is no peace?
> 
> 
> 
> It is already discuss on this forum and reports confirm by the international observer. Israel army is involve in war crime against innocent civilian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because, as has been stated and proven multiple times on this and other forums, the Palestinians use the people as human shields.  I'm sure sometimes the people are collaborating with them, and other times it is against their will, but the fact is that the terrorists oftentimes use the civilians as "pawns" in their sick little game.  True story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, Israel sang that same song when they were bombing the crap out of civilians in Lebanon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, terrorists tend to all use the same terrorist tactics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sound like you are accepting the facts that Israelis are terrorist.
Click to expand...




 No just better politicians, the terrorists are the ISLAMONAZI muslims who are showing their true colours all over the world. Over 10 million innocents mass murdered by islam in the last 12 months tells a depressing sad story,


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because, as has been stated and proven multiple times on this and other forums, the Palestinians use the people as human shields.  I'm sure sometimes the people are collaborating with them, and other times it is against their will, but the fact is that the terrorists oftentimes use the civilians as "pawns" in their sick little game.  True story.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, yeah, Israel sang that same song when they were bombing the crap out of civilians in Lebanon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Probably because the same conditions applied while they were bombing the crap out of Hezbollah in Lebanon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And Israel could not think of a new lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just to be clear... what 'lie' are we talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We are talking about Israel and its illegal occupation in Palestine and in this regards jew are constantly refusing the facts and delaying peace process.
Click to expand...




 Not illegal as the UN and the ICJ have testified, but the muslims don't see it the way the rest of the world does.

 You seem reasonably intelligent so here is a question for you.    Is the Koran the never changing word of god and should be accepted as fact in all things. To the point that no part of the Koran should be altered and/or removed.


----------



## Billo_Really

Daniyel said:


> Aww so now Israel is being accused for the time who knows what for inhumanity behavior, let me correct that, THE JEWS are being accused, pff modern blood libels, never was close to be true, but like the Hebrew saying 'Faith is the easiest and hardest thing to achieve in life', nailed it.


Never close to being true?  I don't think so!

Here's a short list of Israeli atrocities...



> _– Tira, December 11, 1947 – five Palestinians were killed and six injured;
> 
> – a village outside Haifa, December 12, 1947 – 12 Palestinians killed;
> 
> – a village outside Tel Aviv, December 14, 1947 – 18 Palestinians killed and 100 injured;
> 
> – al-Khias, December 18, 1947 – the paramilitary Haganah killed 10 Palestinians, most inside their homes;
> 
> – Haifa, December 30, 1947 – six Palestinians killed and 42 wounded;
> 
> – Jerusalem, December 30, 1947 – Irgun terrorists threw a bomb from a speeding car killing 11 Palestinians and two Brits;
> 
> – Balad Esh-Sheikh, December 31, 1947 – the Haganah killed 60 Palestinians, most inside their homes;
> 
> – Jaffa, January 4, 1948 – the Stern Gang killed up to 30 and wounded 100 in a truck bombing;
> 
> – the Semiramis Hotel, Jerusalem, January 4, 1948 – the Haganah bombed the hotel killing 25 civilians;
> 
> – Jaffa Gate, Jerusalem, January 7, 1948 – 17 Palestinians killed;
> 
> – Tireh, February 10, 1948 – seven Palestinians killed and five injured;
> 
> – on a bus from Safad, February 12, 1948 – five Palestinians killed and five injured;
> 
> – Sa’sa’, February 14, 1948 – 60 Palestinians killed, mostly in their homes;
> 
> – Qisarya, February 15 – 20, 1948 – 25 Palestinians killed;
> 
> – Haifa, February 20, 1948 – six Palestinians killed and 36 wounded;
> 
> – Haifa, March 3, 1948 – the Stern Gang blew up the Salameh Building killing 11 Palestinians and wounding 27;
> 
> – al-Husayniyya, March 12 and 16 – 17 – the Palmach twice raided the village killing 15 and wounding 20 in the first attack; killing 30 in the second one;
> 
> – Jews blew up a train near Benjamina on March 31, 1948 killing 25 Palestinians and wounding 61;
> 
> – al-Sarafand, April 5, 1948 – 16 Palestinians were killed and 12 wounded, most when a house was mortared;
> 
> – Dier Yassin, April 9, 1948 – the Menachem Begin-led Irgun slaughtered well over 120 Palestinian men, women and children in a bloody rampage; The New York Times reported 254 killed on April 13; 53 orphaned children were dumped like trash along the wall of the Old City; homes were dynamited with inhabitants inside; people were shot at close range, including children; the massacre marked the beginning of what followed during Israel’s “War of Independence:” depopulating 531 towns and villages; 11 urban neighborhoods; massacring or displacing 800,000 Palestinians; and committing  countless rapes and other atrocities;” remember Dier Yassin; it, too, is immortalized;
> 
> – Tel Litvinsky, April 19, 1948 – Jews killed 90 Palestinians;
> 
> – Tiberias, April 19, 1948 – Jews blew up a home killing Palestinians inside;
> 
> – Ayn al-Zaytun and nearby villages, May 1 – 4, 1948 – 27 Palestinians killed;
> 
> – Acre, May 18, 1948 – Israeli troops killed over 100 Palestinians;
> 
> – al-Kabri, May 20, 1948 – Israeli forces killed villagers and machine-gunned children who survived;
> 
> – al-Tantura, May 22 – 23, 1948 – Israeli troops killed over 200 villagers, mostly unarmed young men shot in cold blood;
> 
> – on May 26, 1948, David Ben-Gurion formed the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) from the Haganah;
> 
> – Lydda, July 11 – 12, 1948 – the IDF killed several hundred civilians, including 80 machine-gunned inside the Dahmash mosque;
> 
> – Elot, late July, 1948 – the IDF arrested 46 young men; on August 3, several were found dead, and 14 of those arrested were shot in cold blood in an olive grove – in full view of the villagers;
> 
> – Suqrir, August 29, 1948 – the IDF killed 10 villagers;
> 
> – Hula, Lebanon, October 24 – 29, 1948 – the IDF machine-gunned 50 villagers;
> 
> – al-Dawayima, October 29, 1948 – the IDF killed up to 200 villagers;
> 
> – Majd al-Kurum, October 30, 1948 – the IDF slaughtered 20 or more villagers in cold blood;
> 
> – Saliha, October 30, 1948 – IDF forces blew up a house killing 94 Palestinians;
> 
> – Sa’sa’, October 30, 1948 – hundreds of Palestinians were slaughtered in cold blood; the entire village was expelled;
> 
> – Nahf, October 31, 1948 – a brutal massacre was carried out of unknown numbers;
> 
> – Khirbat al-Wa’ra al-Sawda, November 2, 1948 – the IDF killed 14 villagers;
> 
> – Beit Jala, January 6, 1952 – seven Palestinians were slaughtered in cold blood;
> 
> – Jerusalem, April 22, 1953 – the IDF killed 10 Palestinians;
> 
> – Bureji Refugee Camp, August 28, 1953 – the IDF killed  20 Palestinians and wounded 62 others;
> 
> – Qibya, Jordan, October 14, 1953 – Ariel Sharon’s infamous Unit 101 killed 70 villagers;
> 
> – Nahalin, Jordan, March 28, 1954 – the IDF killed nine Arabs and wounded 19;
> 
> – Gaza City, April 5, 1956 – IDF shelling killed 56 and wounded 193;
> 
> – Kafr Kassem, October 29, 1956 – the IDF killed about 50 men, women and children;
> 
> – the Suez War, October 29 – November 7, 1956 – the IDF executed about 273 Egyptian soldiers and civilians in cold blood;
> 
> – Khan Yunis, November 3, 1956 – the IDF killed dozens of civilians in cold blood;
> 
> – Rafah Refugee Camp, November 12, 1956 – the IDF slaughtered over 100 Palestinians;
> 
> – Nuqeibi, Syria, March 16 – 17, 1962 – IDF artillery and aircraft killed at least 30 unarmed villagers;
> 
> – Samu, Jordan, November 13, 1966 – the IDF destroyed 125 houses, a school, clinic and 15 houses in a nearby village killing 18 and wounded 54 in cold blood;
> 
> – the Six-Day War, June 5 – 11, 1967 – IDF forces preemptively and without cause attacked Egypt, Syria and Jordan; they massacred as many as 2000 helpless or captured Egyptian soldiers; killed about 340 Syrian villagers in the Golan Heights and displaced more than 300,000 Palestinians who fled to the Jordan River’s east bank along with others to Lebanon, Egypt and Syria;_


That's the short list!


----------



## Kondor3

Rehmani said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Junior Abbas, also a lying scum, said once 5, 900, 000 Palestinians were killed by Israel, and of course a proud anti Semitic trash, now imagine this is the head of the Palestinians ..still curious why there is no peace?
> 
> 
> 
> It is already discuss on this forum and reports confirm by the international observer. Israel army is involve in war crime against innocent civilian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because, as has been stated and proven multiple times on this and other forums, the Palestinians use the people as human shields.  I'm sure sometimes the people are collaborating with them, and other times it is against their will, but the fact is that the terrorists oftentimes use the civilians as "pawns" in their sick little game.  True story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But you can not punished whole nation if some one killed on jew, can you or is it right to do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, for one thing, it has been many, many more than just one Jew who has been killed.  Israel has been dealing with terrorism for a very long time, much longer than the United States.
> 
> Do you think that Israel should not fight back?  Do you think they should lie down and die?  If they have the might and the fortitude, should they not fight for their country?  Why on earth would they not use their military might to defeat a declared enemy?    The expectations are quite comical actually.  No other nation in the world that is a victim of daily bombings from an enemy who has declared that their goal is to wipe out said nation would be asked to take such ridiculous measures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then what about those Palestinian who's country Jew occupied with the help of the super powers, Israelis killed them in millions and force to live into camps. What you expect to some one in this situation like palestinians are, do you think Palestinian should love invaders.
Click to expand...

*Millions*?

Really?

I don't think so.

Time to step away from the hooka, son... smokin' that camel shit is rotting your brain.


----------



## pbel

Kondor3 said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is already discuss on this forum and reports confirm by the international observer. Israel army is involve in war crime against innocent civilian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because, as has been stated and proven multiple times on this and other forums, the Palestinians use the people as human shields.  I'm sure sometimes the people are collaborating with them, and other times it is against their will, but the fact is that the terrorists oftentimes use the civilians as "pawns" in their sick little game.  True story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But you can not punished whole nation if some one killed on jew, can you or is it right to do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, for one thing, it has been many, many more than just one Jew who has been killed.  Israel has been dealing with terrorism for a very long time, much longer than the United States.
> 
> Do you think that Israel should not fight back?  Do you think they should lie down and die?  If they have the might and the fortitude, should they not fight for their country?  Why on earth would they not use their military might to defeat a declared enemy?    The expectations are quite comical actually.  No other nation in the world that is a victim of daily bombings from an enemy who has declared that their goal is to wipe out said nation would be asked to take such ridiculous measures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then what about those Palestinian who's country Jew occupied with the help of the super powers, Israelis killed them in millions and force to live into camps. What you expect to some one in this situation like palestinians are, do you think Palestinian should love invaders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Millions*?
> 
> Really?
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> Time to step away from the hooka, son... smokin' that camel shit is rotting your brain.
Click to expand...

For a nut cake that continues to support the expulsion of Israeli Muslims and the others trying to hang on to their ancestral homes, you must be on LSD...Clearly your brain is already fried...


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is already discuss on this forum and reports confirm by the international observer. Israel army is involve in war crime against innocent civilian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because, as has been stated and proven multiple times on this and other forums, the Palestinians use the people as human shields.  I'm sure sometimes the people are collaborating with them, and other times it is against their will, but the fact is that the terrorists oftentimes use the civilians as "pawns" in their sick little game.  True story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, Israel sang that same song when they were bombing the crap out of civilians in Lebanon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, terrorists tend to all use the same terrorist tactics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sound like you are accepting the facts that Israelis are terrorist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No just better politicians, the terrorists are the ISLAMONAZI muslims who are showing their true colours all over the world. Over 10 million innocents mass murdered by islam in the last 12 months tells a depressing sad story,
Click to expand...

Sound like you are more Indian paid agent spreading terrorism, shame on you.


----------



## Rehmani

Kondor3 said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is already discuss on this forum and reports confirm by the international observer. Israel army is involve in war crime against innocent civilian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because, as has been stated and proven multiple times on this and other forums, the Palestinians use the people as human shields.  I'm sure sometimes the people are collaborating with them, and other times it is against their will, but the fact is that the terrorists oftentimes use the civilians as "pawns" in their sick little game.  True story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But you can not punished whole nation if some one killed on jew, can you or is it right to do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, for one thing, it has been many, many more than just one Jew who has been killed.  Israel has been dealing with terrorism for a very long time, much longer than the United States.
> 
> Do you think that Israel should not fight back?  Do you think they should lie down and die?  If they have the might and the fortitude, should they not fight for their country?  Why on earth would they not use their military might to defeat a declared enemy?    The expectations are quite comical actually.  No other nation in the world that is a victim of daily bombings from an enemy who has declared that their goal is to wipe out said nation would be asked to take such ridiculous measures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then what about those Palestinian who's country Jew occupied with the help of the super powers, Israelis killed them in millions and force to live into camps. What you expect to some one in this situation like palestinians are, do you think Palestinian should love invaders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Millions*?
> 
> Really?
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> Time to step away from the hooka, son... smokin' that camel shit is rotting your brain.
Click to expand...

look jew have to accept the facts that they can not beat the numbers, jew claim that German killed 6 millions jew is correct and if Muslim claim that jew killed millions Muslims wrong, this the reason I am saying that jew have give this silly idea that they are special race and masaya is coming. Please free your self from your master or elders.


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, yeah, Israel sang that same song when they were bombing the crap out of civilians in Lebanon.
> 
> 
> 
> Probably because the same conditions applied while they were bombing the crap out of Hezbollah in Lebanon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And Israel could not think of a new lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just to be clear... what 'lie' are we talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We are talking about Israel and its illegal occupation in Palestine and in this regards jew are constantly refusing the facts and delaying peace process.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not illegal as the UN and the ICJ have testified, but the muslims don't see it the way the rest of the world does.
> 
> You seem reasonably intelligent so here is a question for you.    Is the Koran the never changing word of god and should be accepted as fact in all things. To the point that no part of the Koran should be altered and/or removed.
Click to expand...

If you are paid agent how come you can argue about others, I will say you should leave the forum.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aww so now Israel is being accused for the time who knows what for inhumanity behavior, let me correct that, THE JEWS are being accused, pff modern blood libels, never was close to be true, but like the Hebrew saying 'Faith is the easiest and hardest thing to achieve in life', nailed it.
> 
> 
> 
> Never close to being true?  I don't think so!
> 
> Here's a short list of Israeli atrocities...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _– Tira, December 11, 1947 – five Palestinians were killed and six injured;
> 
> – a village outside Haifa, December 12, 1947 – 12 Palestinians killed;
> 
> – a village outside Tel Aviv, December 14, 1947 – 18 Palestinians killed and 100 injured;
> 
> – al-Khias, December 18, 1947 – the paramilitary Haganah killed 10 Palestinians, most inside their homes;
> 
> – Haifa, December 30, 1947 – six Palestinians killed and 42 wounded;
> 
> – Jerusalem, December 30, 1947 – Irgun terrorists threw a bomb from a speeding car killing 11 Palestinians and two Brits;
> 
> – Balad Esh-Sheikh, December 31, 1947 – the Haganah killed 60 Palestinians, most inside their homes;
> 
> – Jaffa, January 4, 1948 – the Stern Gang killed up to 30 and wounded 100 in a truck bombing;
> 
> – the Semiramis Hotel, Jerusalem, January 4, 1948 – the Haganah bombed the hotel killing 25 civilians;
> 
> – Jaffa Gate, Jerusalem, January 7, 1948 – 17 Palestinians killed;
> 
> – Tireh, February 10, 1948 – seven Palestinians killed and five injured;
> 
> – on a bus from Safad, February 12, 1948 – five Palestinians killed and five injured;
> 
> – Sa’sa’, February 14, 1948 – 60 Palestinians killed, mostly in their homes;
> 
> – Qisarya, February 15 – 20, 1948 – 25 Palestinians killed;
> 
> – Haifa, February 20, 1948 – six Palestinians killed and 36 wounded;
> 
> – Haifa, March 3, 1948 – the Stern Gang blew up the Salameh Building killing 11 Palestinians and wounding 27;
> 
> – al-Husayniyya, March 12 and 16 – 17 – the Palmach twice raided the village killing 15 and wounding 20 in the first attack; killing 30 in the second one;
> 
> – Jews blew up a train near Benjamina on March 31, 1948 killing 25 Palestinians and wounding 61;
> 
> – al-Sarafand, April 5, 1948 – 16 Palestinians were killed and 12 wounded, most when a house was mortared;
> 
> – Dier Yassin, April 9, 1948 – the Menachem Begin-led Irgun slaughtered well over 120 Palestinian men, women and children in a bloody rampage; The New York Times reported 254 killed on April 13; 53 orphaned children were dumped like trash along the wall of the Old City; homes were dynamited with inhabitants inside; people were shot at close range, including children; the massacre marked the beginning of what followed during Israel’s “War of Independence:” depopulating 531 towns and villages; 11 urban neighborhoods; massacring or displacing 800,000 Palestinians; and committing  countless rapes and other atrocities;” remember Dier Yassin; it, too, is immortalized;
> 
> – Tel Litvinsky, April 19, 1948 – Jews killed 90 Palestinians;
> 
> – Tiberias, April 19, 1948 – Jews blew up a home killing Palestinians inside;
> 
> – Ayn al-Zaytun and nearby villages, May 1 – 4, 1948 – 27 Palestinians killed;
> 
> – Acre, May 18, 1948 – Israeli troops killed over 100 Palestinians;
> 
> – al-Kabri, May 20, 1948 – Israeli forces killed villagers and machine-gunned children who survived;
> 
> – al-Tantura, May 22 – 23, 1948 – Israeli troops killed over 200 villagers, mostly unarmed young men shot in cold blood;
> 
> – on May 26, 1948, David Ben-Gurion formed the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) from the Haganah;
> 
> – Lydda, July 11 – 12, 1948 – the IDF killed several hundred civilians, including 80 machine-gunned inside the Dahmash mosque;
> 
> – Elot, late July, 1948 – the IDF arrested 46 young men; on August 3, several were found dead, and 14 of those arrested were shot in cold blood in an olive grove – in full view of the villagers;
> 
> – Suqrir, August 29, 1948 – the IDF killed 10 villagers;
> 
> – Hula, Lebanon, October 24 – 29, 1948 – the IDF machine-gunned 50 villagers;
> 
> – al-Dawayima, October 29, 1948 – the IDF killed up to 200 villagers;
> 
> – Majd al-Kurum, October 30, 1948 – the IDF slaughtered 20 or more villagers in cold blood;
> 
> – Saliha, October 30, 1948 – IDF forces blew up a house killing 94 Palestinians;
> 
> – Sa’sa’, October 30, 1948 – hundreds of Palestinians were slaughtered in cold blood; the entire village was expelled;
> 
> – Nahf, October 31, 1948 – a brutal massacre was carried out of unknown numbers;
> 
> – Khirbat al-Wa’ra al-Sawda, November 2, 1948 – the IDF killed 14 villagers;
> 
> – Beit Jala, January 6, 1952 – seven Palestinians were slaughtered in cold blood;
> 
> – Jerusalem, April 22, 1953 – the IDF killed 10 Palestinians;
> 
> – Bureji Refugee Camp, August 28, 1953 – the IDF killed  20 Palestinians and wounded 62 others;
> 
> – Qibya, Jordan, October 14, 1953 – Ariel Sharon’s infamous Unit 101 killed 70 villagers;
> 
> – Nahalin, Jordan, March 28, 1954 – the IDF killed nine Arabs and wounded 19;
> 
> – Gaza City, April 5, 1956 – IDF shelling killed 56 and wounded 193;
> 
> – Kafr Kassem, October 29, 1956 – the IDF killed about 50 men, women and children;
> 
> – the Suez War, October 29 – November 7, 1956 – the IDF executed about 273 Egyptian soldiers and civilians in cold blood;
> 
> – Khan Yunis, November 3, 1956 – the IDF killed dozens of civilians in cold blood;
> 
> – Rafah Refugee Camp, November 12, 1956 – the IDF slaughtered over 100 Palestinians;
> 
> – Nuqeibi, Syria, March 16 – 17, 1962 – IDF artillery and aircraft killed at least 30 unarmed villagers;
> 
> – Samu, Jordan, November 13, 1966 – the IDF destroyed 125 houses, a school, clinic and 15 houses in a nearby village killing 18 and wounded 54 in cold blood;
> 
> – the Six-Day War, June 5 – 11, 1967 – IDF forces preemptively and without cause attacked Egypt, Syria and Jordan; they massacred as many as 2000 helpless or captured Egyptian soldiers; killed about 340 Syrian villagers in the Golan Heights and displaced more than 300,000 Palestinians who fled to the Jordan River’s east bank along with others to Lebanon, Egypt and Syria;_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's the short list!
Click to expand...




 Now be a good little Nazi and do the same for the Jews........................


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because, as has been stated and proven multiple times on this and other forums, the Palestinians use the people as human shields.  I'm sure sometimes the people are collaborating with them, and other times it is against their will, but the fact is that the terrorists oftentimes use the civilians as "pawns" in their sick little game.  True story.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, yeah, Israel sang that same song when they were bombing the crap out of civilians in Lebanon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, terrorists tend to all use the same terrorist tactics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sound like you are accepting the facts that Israelis are terrorist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No just better politicians, the terrorists are the ISLAMONAZI muslims who are showing their true colours all over the world. Over 10 million innocents mass murdered by islam in the last 12 months tells a depressing sad story,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sound like you are more Indian paid agent spreading terrorism, shame on you.
Click to expand...




 Just posting facts that can be seen by anyone with an open mind


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aww so now Israel is being accused for the time who knows what for inhumanity behavior, let me correct that, THE JEWS are being accused, pff modern blood libels, never was close to be true, but like the Hebrew saying 'Faith is the easiest and hardest thing to achieve in life', nailed it.
> 
> 
> 
> Never close to being true?  I don't think so!
> 
> Here's a short list of Israeli atrocities...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _– Tira, December 11, 1947 – five Palestinians were killed and six injured;
> 
> – a village outside Haifa, December 12, 1947 – 12 Palestinians killed;
> 
> – a village outside Tel Aviv, December 14, 1947 – 18 Palestinians killed and 100 injured;
> 
> – al-Khias, December 18, 1947 – the paramilitary Haganah killed 10 Palestinians, most inside their homes;
> 
> – Haifa, December 30, 1947 – six Palestinians killed and 42 wounded;
> 
> – Jerusalem, December 30, 1947 – Irgun terrorists threw a bomb from a speeding car killing 11 Palestinians and two Brits;
> 
> – Balad Esh-Sheikh, December 31, 1947 – the Haganah killed 60 Palestinians, most inside their homes;
> 
> – Jaffa, January 4, 1948 – the Stern Gang killed up to 30 and wounded 100 in a truck bombing;
> 
> – the Semiramis Hotel, Jerusalem, January 4, 1948 – the Haganah bombed the hotel killing 25 civilians;
> 
> – Jaffa Gate, Jerusalem, January 7, 1948 – 17 Palestinians killed;
> 
> – Tireh, February 10, 1948 – seven Palestinians killed and five injured;
> 
> – on a bus from Safad, February 12, 1948 – five Palestinians killed and five injured;
> 
> – Sa’sa’, February 14, 1948 – 60 Palestinians killed, mostly in their homes;
> 
> – Qisarya, February 15 – 20, 1948 – 25 Palestinians killed;
> 
> – Haifa, February 20, 1948 – six Palestinians killed and 36 wounded;
> 
> – Haifa, March 3, 1948 – the Stern Gang blew up the Salameh Building killing 11 Palestinians and wounding 27;
> 
> – al-Husayniyya, March 12 and 16 – 17 – the Palmach twice raided the village killing 15 and wounding 20 in the first attack; killing 30 in the second one;
> 
> – Jews blew up a train near Benjamina on March 31, 1948 killing 25 Palestinians and wounding 61;
> 
> – al-Sarafand, April 5, 1948 – 16 Palestinians were killed and 12 wounded, most when a house was mortared;
> 
> – Dier Yassin, April 9, 1948 – the Menachem Begin-led Irgun slaughtered well over 120 Palestinian men, women and children in a bloody rampage; The New York Times reported 254 killed on April 13; 53 orphaned children were dumped like trash along the wall of the Old City; homes were dynamited with inhabitants inside; people were shot at close range, including children; the massacre marked the beginning of what followed during Israel’s “War of Independence:” depopulating 531 towns and villages; 11 urban neighborhoods; massacring or displacing 800,000 Palestinians; and committing  countless rapes and other atrocities;” remember Dier Yassin; it, too, is immortalized;
> 
> – Tel Litvinsky, April 19, 1948 – Jews killed 90 Palestinians;
> 
> – Tiberias, April 19, 1948 – Jews blew up a home killing Palestinians inside;
> 
> – Ayn al-Zaytun and nearby villages, May 1 – 4, 1948 – 27 Palestinians killed;
> 
> – Acre, May 18, 1948 – Israeli troops killed over 100 Palestinians;
> 
> – al-Kabri, May 20, 1948 – Israeli forces killed villagers and machine-gunned children who survived;
> 
> – al-Tantura, May 22 – 23, 1948 – Israeli troops killed over 200 villagers, mostly unarmed young men shot in cold blood;
> 
> – on May 26, 1948, David Ben-Gurion formed the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) from the Haganah;
> 
> – Lydda, July 11 – 12, 1948 – the IDF killed several hundred civilians, including 80 machine-gunned inside the Dahmash mosque;
> 
> – Elot, late July, 1948 – the IDF arrested 46 young men; on August 3, several were found dead, and 14 of those arrested were shot in cold blood in an olive grove – in full view of the villagers;
> 
> – Suqrir, August 29, 1948 – the IDF killed 10 villagers;
> 
> – Hula, Lebanon, October 24 – 29, 1948 – the IDF machine-gunned 50 villagers;
> 
> – al-Dawayima, October 29, 1948 – the IDF killed up to 200 villagers;
> 
> – Majd al-Kurum, October 30, 1948 – the IDF slaughtered 20 or more villagers in cold blood;
> 
> – Saliha, October 30, 1948 – IDF forces blew up a house killing 94 Palestinians;
> 
> – Sa’sa’, October 30, 1948 – hundreds of Palestinians were slaughtered in cold blood; the entire village was expelled;
> 
> – Nahf, October 31, 1948 – a brutal massacre was carried out of unknown numbers;
> 
> – Khirbat al-Wa’ra al-Sawda, November 2, 1948 – the IDF killed 14 villagers;
> 
> – Beit Jala, January 6, 1952 – seven Palestinians were slaughtered in cold blood;
> 
> – Jerusalem, April 22, 1953 – the IDF killed 10 Palestinians;
> 
> – Bureji Refugee Camp, August 28, 1953 – the IDF killed  20 Palestinians and wounded 62 others;
> 
> – Qibya, Jordan, October 14, 1953 – Ariel Sharon’s infamous Unit 101 killed 70 villagers;
> 
> – Nahalin, Jordan, March 28, 1954 – the IDF killed nine Arabs and wounded 19;
> 
> – Gaza City, April 5, 1956 – IDF shelling killed 56 and wounded 193;
> 
> – Kafr Kassem, October 29, 1956 – the IDF killed about 50 men, women and children;
> 
> – the Suez War, October 29 – November 7, 1956 – the IDF executed about 273 Egyptian soldiers and civilians in cold blood;
> 
> – Khan Yunis, November 3, 1956 – the IDF killed dozens of civilians in cold blood;
> 
> – Rafah Refugee Camp, November 12, 1956 – the IDF slaughtered over 100 Palestinians;
> 
> – Nuqeibi, Syria, March 16 – 17, 1962 – IDF artillery and aircraft killed at least 30 unarmed villagers;
> 
> – Samu, Jordan, November 13, 1966 – the IDF destroyed 125 houses, a school, clinic and 15 houses in a nearby village killing 18 and wounded 54 in cold blood;
> 
> – the Six-Day War, June 5 – 11, 1967 – IDF forces preemptively and without cause attacked Egypt, Syria and Jordan; they massacred as many as 2000 helpless or captured Egyptian soldiers; killed about 340 Syrian villagers in the Golan Heights and displaced more than 300,000 Palestinians who fled to the Jordan River’s east bank along with others to Lebanon, Egypt and Syria;_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's the short list!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now be a good little Nazi and do the same for the Jews........................
Click to expand...

But German didn't kill 6 million jews, I will say mostly jew covert as luthran to Hitler anger.


----------



## Kondor3

Rehmani said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because, as has been stated and proven multiple times on this and other forums, the Palestinians use the people as human shields.  I'm sure sometimes the people are collaborating with them, and other times it is against their will, but the fact is that the terrorists oftentimes use the civilians as "pawns" in their sick little game.  True story.
> 
> 
> 
> But you can not punished whole nation if some one killed on jew, can you or is it right to do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, for one thing, it has been many, many more than just one Jew who has been killed.  Israel has been dealing with terrorism for a very long time, much longer than the United States.
> 
> Do you think that Israel should not fight back?  Do you think they should lie down and die?  If they have the might and the fortitude, should they not fight for their country?  Why on earth would they not use their military might to defeat a declared enemy?    The expectations are quite comical actually.  No other nation in the world that is a victim of daily bombings from an enemy who has declared that their goal is to wipe out said nation would be asked to take such ridiculous measures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then what about those Palestinian who's country Jew occupied with the help of the super powers, Israelis killed them in millions and force to live into camps. What you expect to some one in this situation like palestinians are, do you think Palestinian should love invaders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Millions*?
> 
> Really?
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> Time to step away from the hooka, son... smokin' that camel shit is rotting your brain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> look jew have to accept the facts that they can not beat the numbers, jew claim that German killed 6 millions jew is correct and if Muslim claim that jew killed millions Muslims wrong, this the reason I am saying that jew have give this silly idea that they are special race and masaya is coming. Please free your self from your master or elders.
Click to expand...

Translation:

"_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"

Epic fail.

Big surprise.

Not.


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, yeah, Israel sang that same song when they were bombing the crap out of civilians in Lebanon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, terrorists tend to all use the same terrorist tactics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sound like you are accepting the facts that Israelis are terrorist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> e
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, yeah, Israel sang that same song when they were bombing the crap out of civilians in Lebanon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, terrorists tend to all use the same terrorist tactics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sound like you are accepting the facts that Israelis are terrorist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No just better politicians, the terrorists are the ISLAMONAZI muslims who are showing their true colours all over the world. Over 10 million innocents mass murdered by islam in the last 12 months tells a depressing sad story,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sound like you are more Indian paid agent spreading terrorism, shame on you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just posting facts that can be seen by anyone with an open mind
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> First, Look the way you argued, Second if you through from your own posts, contradict to each others, third some others posters like me also contradict with you on the forum.
> As world know their are some countries using social media and people to promote propaganda around.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Rehmani

Kondor3 said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> But you can not punished whole nation if some one killed on jew, can you or is it right to do that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, for one thing, it has been many, many more than just one Jew who has been killed.  Israel has been dealing with terrorism for a very long time, much longer than the United States.
> 
> Do you think that Israel should not fight back?  Do you think they should lie down and die?  If they have the might and the fortitude, should they not fight for their country?  Why on earth would they not use their military might to defeat a declared enemy?    The expectations are quite comical actually.  No other nation in the world that is a victim of daily bombings from an enemy who has declared that their goal is to wipe out said nation would be asked to take such ridiculous measures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then what about those Palestinian who's country Jew occupied with the help of the super powers, Israelis killed them in millions and force to live into camps. What you expect to some one in this situation like palestinians are, do you think Palestinian should love invaders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Millions*?
> 
> Really?
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> Time to step away from the hooka, son... smokin' that camel shit is rotting your brain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> look jew have to accept the facts that they can not beat the numbers, jew claim that German killed 6 millions jew is correct and if Muslim claim that jew killed millions Muslims wrong, this the reason I am saying that jew have give this silly idea that they are special race and masaya is coming. Please free your self from your master or elders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
Click to expand...

Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.


----------



## ChrisL

Rehmani said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, for one thing, it has been many, many more than just one Jew who has been killed.  Israel has been dealing with terrorism for a very long time, much longer than the United States.
> 
> Do you think that Israel should not fight back?  Do you think they should lie down and die?  If they have the might and the fortitude, should they not fight for their country?  Why on earth would they not use their military might to defeat a declared enemy?    The expectations are quite comical actually.  No other nation in the world that is a victim of daily bombings from an enemy who has declared that their goal is to wipe out said nation would be asked to take such ridiculous measures.
> 
> 
> 
> Then what about those Palestinian who's country Jew occupied with the help of the super powers, Israelis killed them in millions and force to live into camps. What you expect to some one in this situation like palestinians are, do you think Palestinian should love invaders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Millions*?
> 
> Really?
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> Time to step away from the hooka, son... smokin' that camel shit is rotting your brain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> look jew have to accept the facts that they can not beat the numbers, jew claim that German killed 6 millions jew is correct and if Muslim claim that jew killed millions Muslims wrong, this the reason I am saying that jew have give this silly idea that they are special race and masaya is coming. Please free your self from your master or elders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
Click to expand...


Oh, is that so.  "Jews" do this?  I think you need to post a link.


----------



## Daniyel

Rehmani said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, for one thing, it has been many, many more than just one Jew who has been killed.  Israel has been dealing with terrorism for a very long time, much longer than the United States.
> 
> Do you think that Israel should not fight back?  Do you think they should lie down and die?  If they have the might and the fortitude, should they not fight for their country?  Why on earth would they not use their military might to defeat a declared enemy?    The expectations are quite comical actually.  No other nation in the world that is a victim of daily bombings from an enemy who has declared that their goal is to wipe out said nation would be asked to take such ridiculous measures.
> 
> 
> 
> Then what about those Palestinian who's country Jew occupied with the help of the super powers, Israelis killed them in millions and force to live into camps. What you expect to some one in this situation like palestinians are, do you think Palestinian should love invaders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Millions*?
> 
> Really?
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> Time to step away from the hooka, son... smokin' that camel shit is rotting your brain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> look jew have to accept the facts that they can not beat the numbers, jew claim that German killed 6 millions jew is correct and if Muslim claim that jew killed millions Muslims wrong, this the reason I am saying that jew have give this silly idea that they are special race and masaya is coming. Please free your self from your master or elders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
Click to expand...

But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.


----------



## montelatici

Daniyel said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then what about those Palestinian who's country Jew occupied with the help of the super powers, Israelis killed them in millions and force to live into camps. What you expect to some one in this situation like palestinians are, do you think Palestinian should love invaders.
> 
> 
> 
> *Millions*?
> 
> Really?
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> Time to step away from the hooka, son... smokin' that camel shit is rotting your brain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> look jew have to accept the facts that they can not beat the numbers, jew claim that German killed 6 millions jew is correct and if Muslim claim that jew killed millions Muslims wrong, this the reason I am saying that jew have give this silly idea that they are special race and masaya is coming. Please free your self from your master or elders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
Click to expand...


 Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?


----------



## Daniyel

montelatici said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Millions*?
> 
> Really?
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> Time to step away from the hooka, son... smokin' that camel shit is rotting your brain.
> 
> 
> 
> look jew have to accept the facts that they can not beat the numbers, jew claim that German killed 6 millions jew is correct and if Muslim claim that jew killed millions Muslims wrong, this the reason I am saying that jew have give this silly idea that they are special race and masaya is coming. Please free your self from your master or elders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
Click to expand...

Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.


----------



## pbel

Daniyel said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> look jew have to accept the facts that they can not beat the numbers, jew claim that German killed 6 millions jew is correct and if Muslim claim that jew killed millions Muslims wrong, this the reason I am saying that jew have give this silly idea that they are special race and masaya is coming. Please free your self from your master or elders.
> 
> 
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
Click to expand...




Daniyel said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> look jew have to accept the facts that they can not beat the numbers, jew claim that German killed 6 millions jew is correct and if Muslim claim that jew killed millions Muslims wrong, this the reason I am saying that jew have give this silly idea that they are special race and masaya is coming. Please free your self from your master or elders.
> 
> 
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
Click to expand...

Right! By the hundred thousands...When the time comes they'll return the favor...


----------



## Daniyel

pbel said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
> 
> 
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right! By the hundred thousands...When the time comes they'll return the favor...
Click to expand...

Another sunstroke prophet? Get lost moron.


----------



## pbel

Daniyel said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> 
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right! By the hundred thousands...When the time comes they'll return the favor...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another sunstroke prophet? Get lost moron.
Click to expand...

Its not a prophesy moron, its a fact...1.4 billion Muslims in time cannot be stopped!


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, yeah, Israel sang that same song when they were bombing the crap out of civilians in Lebanon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, terrorists tend to all use the same terrorist tactics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sound like you are accepting the facts that Israelis are terrorist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No just better politicians, the terrorists are the ISLAMONAZI muslims who are showing their true colours all over the world. Over 10 million innocents mass murdered by islam in the last 12 months tells a depressing sad story,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sound like you are more Indian paid agent spreading terrorism, shame on you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just posting facts that can be seen by anyone with an open mind
Click to expand...


Phoney posting facts! hahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaha


----------



## Daniyel

pbel said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right! By the hundred thousands...When the time comes they'll return the favor...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another sunstroke prophet? Get lost moron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its not a prophesy moron, its a fact...1.4 billion Muslims in time cannot be stopped!
Click to expand...

So its a Muslim outrage on their despicable master faith rampage like the Nazis afterall?
The Nazis were stopped as well.


----------



## montelatici

Daniyel said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> look jew have to accept the facts that they can not beat the numbers, jew claim that German killed 6 millions jew is correct and if Muslim claim that jew killed millions Muslims wrong, this the reason I am saying that jew have give this silly idea that they are special race and masaya is coming. Please free your self from your master or elders.
> 
> 
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
Click to expand...


Over two thousand were killed by Israelis over a few weeks just this summer you nut.


----------



## pbel

Daniyel said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right! By the hundred thousands...When the time comes they'll return the favor...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another sunstroke prophet? Get lost moron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its not a prophesy moron, its a fact...1.4 billion Muslims in time cannot be stopped!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So its a Muslim outrage on their despicable master faith rampage like the Nazis afterall?
> The Nazis were stopped as well.
Click to expand...

Make peace to the 67 borders and maybe stop the 140th expulsion...Islam and Judaism is not incompatible, but Apartheid Israel is!


----------



## Beelzebub

Daniyel said:


> The Nazis were stopped as well.



Not before sending their political DNA to grow in Palestine.
But the world's reaction to Nazi Germany - once all the denial of what they were about was finished with - gives us all hope that Israel will come to a sticky end too.


----------



## Daniyel

Haha you clowns talking diplomatically like nobody knows you wrong, in fact everybody does and that's including you, by the way you reverse everything to Israel like perfect losers, no wonder why Muslims live in the 7th century, losing to Israel every possible way, and still trying.
"TIME WILL COME AND MUSLIMS THE UNSTOPPABLE FORCE WILL RETURN THE FAVOR TO ISRAEL" Pbel
"THERE IS NO NEED TO DEMONIZE ISRAEL,ISRAEL DEMONIZE ITSELF" Beelzebub(professional demonizer)
"THE PALESTINIANS LIVED IN PEACEFULLY FOR FEW YEARS AND THEN THE EUROPEAN JEWS CAME AND CREATED APARTHEID LIKE SOUTH AFRICA" moteliciti

EPIC!


----------



## pbel

Daniyel said:


> Haha you clowns talking diplomatically like nobody knows you wrong, in fact everybody does and that's including you, by the way you reverse everything to Israel like perfect losers, no wonder why Muslims live in the 7th century, losing to Israel every possible way, and still trying.
> "TIME WILL COME AND MUSLIMS THE UNSTOPPABLE FORCE WILL RETURN THE FAVOR TO ISRAEL" Pbel
> "THERE IS NO NEED TO DEMONIZE ISRAEL,ISRAEL DEMONIZE ITSELF" Beelzebub(professional demonizer)
> "THE PALESTINIANS LIVED IN PEACEFULLY FOR FEW YEARS AND THEN THE EUROPEAN JEWS CAME AND CREATED APARTHEID LIKE SOUTH AFRICA" moteliciti
> 
> EPIC!


Read your History of the ME...Thus far the Muslims have kicked out all Invaders sometimes taking hundreds of years, Only Western Weapons give Israel the edge today like the Iron Dome and Western Public Opinion is now clearly against Israel...Soon the AIPAC bought Politicians will be booted out from office by the new generation whose majority in opinion polls are anti Israeli policies.

Keep those bags packed for your children and grand children...


----------



## montelatici

What sort of conflicts were ongoing in Palestine, say 100 years prior to the European Jew invasion? Say from 1750 thru 1850.  If there was some great conflict, I haven't read about it.


----------



## ChrisL

montelatici said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
> 
> 
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Over two thousand were killed by Israelis over a few weeks just this summer you nut.
Click to expand...


That's because the Palestinian government does not care about them one bit and uses them as pawns in their sick game.  They need to start lying the blame where it belongs, their government which abuses and oppresses them and will continue to do so unless they demand that it stop.  There will probably have to be an uprising by the citizens before things will ever change there sadly.  Or Israel will end up having no choice but to utterly destroy them.


----------



## pbel

ChrisL said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> 
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Over two thousand were killed by Israelis over a few weeks just this summer you nut.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because the Palestinian government does not care about them one bit and uses them as pawns in their sick game.  They need to start lying the blame where it belongs, their government which abuses and oppresses them and will continue to do so unless they demand that it stop.  There will probably have to be an uprising by the citizens before things will ever change there sadly.  Or Israel will end up having no choice but to utterly destroy them.
Click to expand...

Chris, the Palestinians are the least of Israel's problems, there are 500 million Arabs who will replace them and a Billion Muslims...They will defend their third holiest site to Israel's end if need be...


----------



## ChrisL

pbel said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Over two thousand were killed by Israelis over a few weeks just this summer you nut.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because the Palestinian government does not care about them one bit and uses them as pawns in their sick game.  They need to start lying the blame where it belongs, their government which abuses and oppresses them and will continue to do so unless they demand that it stop.  There will probably have to be an uprising by the citizens before things will ever change there sadly.  Or Israel will end up having no choice but to utterly destroy them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Chris, the Palestinians are the least of Israel's problems, there are 500 million Arabs who will replace them and a Billion Muslims...They will defend their third holiest site to Israel's end if need be...
Click to expand...


I don't see any other countries giving Israel the difficult time that the palestinians do.  It just doesn't happen.  I don't think the other surrounding countries (except for maybe Iran) think that it is worth it to act like children.


----------



## montelatici

ChrisL said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> 
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Over two thousand were killed by Israelis over a few weeks just this summer you nut.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because the Palestinian government does not care about them one bit and uses them as pawns in their sick game.  They need to start lying the blame where it belongs, their government which abuses and oppresses them and will continue to do so unless they demand that it stop.  There will probably have to be an uprising by the citizens before things will ever change there sadly.  Or Israel will end up having no choice but to utterly destroy them.
Click to expand...


When there is an uprising it will be against the Jew occupiers.  You really have no grasp of reality.


----------



## pbel

ChrisL said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Over two thousand were killed by Israelis over a few weeks just this summer you nut.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because the Palestinian government does not care about them one bit and uses them as pawns in their sick game.  They need to start lying the blame where it belongs, their government which abuses and oppresses them and will continue to do so unless they demand that it stop.  There will probably have to be an uprising by the citizens before things will ever change there sadly.  Or Israel will end up having no choice but to utterly destroy them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Chris, the Palestinians are the least of Israel's problems, there are 500 million Arabs who will replace them and a Billion Muslims...They will defend their third holiest site to Israel's end if need be...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't see any other countries giving Israel the difficult time that the palestinians do.  It just doesn't happen.  I don't think the other surrounding countries (except for maybe Iran) think that it is worth it to act like children.
Click to expand...

I beg to differ, Only Egypt's corrupt military saved Israel from the Elected Islamist government...ISIS has been getting recruits from almost every country on earth even in our America, it is a growing avalanche...Only AIPAC bought politician have given Israel the weapons to stay put, and that support will evaporate as the new generation takes over...Americans are tired of these ME wars that have killed 4-5 thousand of our troops in Iraq,t and 2-3 thousand in Taliban Afghanistan not to mention the many more thousands maimed...

The handwriting is on the wall, Israel controls their third holiest site and Muslim will _Never_ stand for that...


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> ...Right! By the hundred thousands...When the time comes they'll return the favor...


Wake me up when there's a snowball's chance in hell of that happening... by, oh, say, the year 2714 or so...

Of course, by then, the term 'Palestinian' will merely be a near-forgotten footnote in obscure history books...


----------



## montelatici

ChrisL said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Over two thousand were killed by Israelis over a few weeks just this summer you nut.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because the Palestinian government does not care about them one bit and uses them as pawns in their sick game.  They need to start lying the blame where it belongs, their government which abuses and oppresses them and will continue to do so unless they demand that it stop.  There will probably have to be an uprising by the citizens before things will ever change there sadly.  Or Israel will end up having no choice but to utterly destroy them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Chris, the Palestinians are the least of Israel's problems, there are 500 million Arabs who will replace them and a Billion Muslims...They will defend their third holiest site to Israel's end if need be...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't see any other countries giving Israel the difficult time that the palestinians do.  It just doesn't happen.  I don't think the other surrounding countries (except for maybe Iran) think that it is worth it to act like children.
Click to expand...


What other people do the Israelis hold in open air prisons?  You are aware that the Israeli Jews blockade and/or occupy the land the non-Jews live on or are you that far behind the curve that you haven't a clue?


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> The handwriting is on the wall, Israel controls their third holiest site and Muslim will _Never_ stand for that...


If they don't, they'll lose their First and Second Holiest Sites in the process. Even idiot Muslim Jihadists won't risk that. Mecca and Medinah will be glowing craters.


----------



## ChrisL

pbel said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over two thousand were killed by Israelis over a few weeks just this summer you nut.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because the Palestinian government does not care about them one bit and uses them as pawns in their sick game.  They need to start lying the blame where it belongs, their government which abuses and oppresses them and will continue to do so unless they demand that it stop.  There will probably have to be an uprising by the citizens before things will ever change there sadly.  Or Israel will end up having no choice but to utterly destroy them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Chris, the Palestinians are the least of Israel's problems, there are 500 million Arabs who will replace them and a Billion Muslims...They will defend their third holiest site to Israel's end if need be...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't see any other countries giving Israel the difficult time that the palestinians do.  It just doesn't happen.  I don't think the other surrounding countries (except for maybe Iran) think that it is worth it to act like children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I beg to differ, Only Egypt's corrupt military saved Israel from the Elected Islamist government...ISIS has been getting recruits from almost every country on earth even in our America, it is a growing avalanche...Only AIPAC bought politician have given Israel the weapons to stay put, and that support will evaporate as the new generation takes over...Americans are tired of these ME wars that have killed 4-5 thousand of our troops in Iraq,t and 2-3 thousand in Taliban Afghanistan not to mention the many more thousands maimed...
> 
> The handwriting is on the wall, Israel controls their third holiest site and Muslim will _Never_ stand for that...
Click to expand...


I don't think the US will abandon Israel.  They are an important ally and if we did, that would be very, VERY bad for them.  How would that make you feel?  You claim to care so much about the Palestinian people, yet you seem almost smug about the destruction of Israel.  

It's also quite telling that you are acknowledging the irrational hatred for Israelis.


----------



## ChrisL

montelatici said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over two thousand were killed by Israelis over a few weeks just this summer you nut.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because the Palestinian government does not care about them one bit and uses them as pawns in their sick game.  They need to start lying the blame where it belongs, their government which abuses and oppresses them and will continue to do so unless they demand that it stop.  There will probably have to be an uprising by the citizens before things will ever change there sadly.  Or Israel will end up having no choice but to utterly destroy them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Chris, the Palestinians are the least of Israel's problems, there are 500 million Arabs who will replace them and a Billion Muslims...They will defend their third holiest site to Israel's end if need be...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't see any other countries giving Israel the difficult time that the palestinians do.  It just doesn't happen.  I don't think the other surrounding countries (except for maybe Iran) think that it is worth it to act like children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What other people do the Israelis hold in open air prisons?  You are aware that the Israeli Jews blockade and/or occupy the land the non-Jews live on or are you that far behind the curve that you haven't a clue?
Click to expand...


Because they really aren't given many choices.  They have to put their citizens safety first, before the "comfort" of the Palestinian terrorists.


----------



## montelatici

ChrisL said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Over two thousand were killed by Israelis over a few weeks just this summer you nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's because the Palestinian government does not care about them one bit and uses them as pawns in their sick game.  They need to start lying the blame where it belongs, their government which abuses and oppresses them and will continue to do so unless they demand that it stop.  There will probably have to be an uprising by the citizens before things will ever change there sadly.  Or Israel will end up having no choice but to utterly destroy them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Chris, the Palestinians are the least of Israel's problems, there are 500 million Arabs who will replace them and a Billion Muslims...They will defend their third holiest site to Israel's end if need be...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't see any other countries giving Israel the difficult time that the palestinians do.  It just doesn't happen.  I don't think the other surrounding countries (except for maybe Iran) think that it is worth it to act like children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I beg to differ, Only Egypt's corrupt military saved Israel from the Elected Islamist government...ISIS has been getting recruits from almost every country on earth even in our America, it is a growing avalanche...Only AIPAC bought politician have given Israel the weapons to stay put, and that support will evaporate as the new generation takes over...Americans are tired of these ME wars that have killed 4-5 thousand of our troops in Iraq,t and 2-3 thousand in Taliban Afghanistan not to mention the many more thousands maimed...
> 
> The handwriting is on the wall, Israel controls their third holiest site and Muslim will _Never_ stand for that...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think the US will abandon Israel.  They are an important ally and if we did, that would be very, VERY bad for them.  How would that make you feel?  You claim to care so much about the Palestinian people, yet you seem almost smug about the destruction of Israel.
> 
> It's also quite telling that you are acknowledging the irrational hatred for Israelis.
Click to expand...


While you show an irrational hatred for the Christians and Muslims of Palestine.


----------



## montelatici

ChrisL said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Over two thousand were killed by Israelis over a few weeks just this summer you nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's because the Palestinian government does not care about them one bit and uses them as pawns in their sick game.  They need to start lying the blame where it belongs, their government which abuses and oppresses them and will continue to do so unless they demand that it stop.  There will probably have to be an uprising by the citizens before things will ever change there sadly.  Or Israel will end up having no choice but to utterly destroy them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Chris, the Palestinians are the least of Israel's problems, there are 500 million Arabs who will replace them and a Billion Muslims...They will defend their third holiest site to Israel's end if need be...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't see any other countries giving Israel the difficult time that the palestinians do.  It just doesn't happen.  I don't think the other surrounding countries (except for maybe Iran) think that it is worth it to act like children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What other people do the Israelis hold in open air prisons?  You are aware that the Israeli Jews blockade and/or occupy the land the non-Jews live on or are you that far behind the curve that you haven't a clue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because they really aren't given many choices.  They have to put their citizens safety first, before the "comfort" of the Palestinian terrorists.
Click to expand...


If they hadn't expelled the Christians and Muslims and stolen their land, there wouldn't be a problem.


----------



## ChrisL

montelatici said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's because the Palestinian government does not care about them one bit and uses them as pawns in their sick game.  They need to start lying the blame where it belongs, their government which abuses and oppresses them and will continue to do so unless they demand that it stop.  There will probably have to be an uprising by the citizens before things will ever change there sadly.  Or Israel will end up having no choice but to utterly destroy them.
> 
> 
> 
> Chris, the Palestinians are the least of Israel's problems, there are 500 million Arabs who will replace them and a Billion Muslims...They will defend their third holiest site to Israel's end if need be...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't see any other countries giving Israel the difficult time that the palestinians do.  It just doesn't happen.  I don't think the other surrounding countries (except for maybe Iran) think that it is worth it to act like children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I beg to differ, Only Egypt's corrupt military saved Israel from the Elected Islamist government...ISIS has been getting recruits from almost every country on earth even in our America, it is a growing avalanche...Only AIPAC bought politician have given Israel the weapons to stay put, and that support will evaporate as the new generation takes over...Americans are tired of these ME wars that have killed 4-5 thousand of our troops in Iraq,t and 2-3 thousand in Taliban Afghanistan not to mention the many more thousands maimed...
> 
> The handwriting is on the wall, Israel controls their third holiest site and Muslim will _Never_ stand for that...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think the US will abandon Israel.  They are an important ally and if we did, that would be very, VERY bad for them.  How would that make you feel?  You claim to care so much about the Palestinian people, yet you seem almost smug about the destruction of Israel.
> 
> It's also quite telling that you are acknowledging the irrational hatred for Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While you show an irrational hatred for the Christians and Muslims of Palestine.
Click to expand...


Absolutely not.  I just see the position that they've forced Israel into.  Of course, Israel has to protect it's citizens.  It is just silly to suggest otherwise, and Palestine is a KNOWN terrorist state.  Lol.  Their "Palestinian state" is a failure because of their own hatred.  That is the bottom line.


----------



## ChrisL

montelatici said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's because the Palestinian government does not care about them one bit and uses them as pawns in their sick game.  They need to start lying the blame where it belongs, their government which abuses and oppresses them and will continue to do so unless they demand that it stop.  There will probably have to be an uprising by the citizens before things will ever change there sadly.  Or Israel will end up having no choice but to utterly destroy them.
> 
> 
> 
> Chris, the Palestinians are the least of Israel's problems, there are 500 million Arabs who will replace them and a Billion Muslims...They will defend their third holiest site to Israel's end if need be...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't see any other countries giving Israel the difficult time that the palestinians do.  It just doesn't happen.  I don't think the other surrounding countries (except for maybe Iran) think that it is worth it to act like children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What other people do the Israelis hold in open air prisons?  You are aware that the Israeli Jews blockade and/or occupy the land the non-Jews live on or are you that far behind the curve that you haven't a clue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because they really aren't given many choices.  They have to put their citizens safety first, before the "comfort" of the Palestinian terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If they hadn't expelled the Christians and Muslims and stolen their land, there wouldn't be a problem.
Click to expand...


Stop dwelling on ancient history and concentrate on the here and now, and the future!!!  What's done is done and there is no undoing it!  Israel is a country FULL of people with an infrastructure, etc.  They are NOT going anywhere!  You have to learn to accept that and behave like adults and stop the attacks!


----------



## pbel

ChrisL said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chris, the Palestinians are the least of Israel's problems, there are 500 million Arabs who will replace them and a Billion Muslims...They will defend their third holiest site to Israel's end if need be...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see any other countries giving Israel the difficult time that the palestinians do.  It just doesn't happen.  I don't think the other surrounding countries (except for maybe Iran) think that it is worth it to act like children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I beg to differ, Only Egypt's corrupt military saved Israel from the Elected Islamist government...ISIS has been getting recruits from almost every country on earth even in our America, it is a growing avalanche...Only AIPAC bought politician have given Israel the weapons to stay put, and that support will evaporate as the new generation takes over...Americans are tired of these ME wars that have killed 4-5 thousand of our troops in Iraq,t and 2-3 thousand in Taliban Afghanistan not to mention the many more thousands maimed...
> 
> The handwriting is on the wall, Israel controls their third holiest site and Muslim will _Never_ stand for that...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think the US will abandon Israel.  They are an important ally and if we did, that would be very, VERY bad for them.  How would that make you feel?  You claim to care so much about the Palestinian people, yet you seem almost smug about the destruction of Israel.
> 
> It's also quite telling that you are acknowledging the irrational hatred for Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While you show an irrational hatred for the Christians and Muslims of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely not.  I just see the position that they've forced Israel into.  Of course, Israel has to protect it's citizens.  It is just silly to suggest otherwise, and Palestine is a KNOWN terrorist state.  Lol.  Their "Palestinian state" is a failure because of their own hatred.  That is the bottom line.
Click to expand...

Put yourself in their shoes...Their ancestors are buried here and they have lived here for several hundred years...It is Israeli aggression and land confiscations that continues to this day that's created the hate...Even our-own government along with a vast majority of the worlds nations condemn Israeli atrocities and land theft by conquests on an essentially un-armed civilian population...

Peace, I speak no more on this...Pbel


----------



## montelatici

ChrisL said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chris, the Palestinians are the least of Israel's problems, there are 500 million Arabs who will replace them and a Billion Muslims...They will defend their third holiest site to Israel's end if need be...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see any other countries giving Israel the difficult time that the palestinians do.  It just doesn't happen.  I don't think the other surrounding countries (except for maybe Iran) think that it is worth it to act like children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I beg to differ, Only Egypt's corrupt military saved Israel from the Elected Islamist government...ISIS has been getting recruits from almost every country on earth even in our America, it is a growing avalanche...Only AIPAC bought politician have given Israel the weapons to stay put, and that support will evaporate as the new generation takes over...Americans are tired of these ME wars that have killed 4-5 thousand of our troops in Iraq,t and 2-3 thousand in Taliban Afghanistan not to mention the many more thousands maimed...
> 
> The handwriting is on the wall, Israel controls their third holiest site and Muslim will _Never_ stand for that...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think the US will abandon Israel.  They are an important ally and if we did, that would be very, VERY bad for them.  How would that make you feel?  You claim to care so much about the Palestinian people, yet you seem almost smug about the destruction of Israel.
> 
> It's also quite telling that you are acknowledging the irrational hatred for Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While you show an irrational hatred for the Christians and Muslims of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely not.  I just see the position that they've forced Israel into.  Of course, Israel has to protect it's citizens.  It is just silly to suggest otherwise, and Palestine is a KNOWN terrorist state.  Lol.  Their "Palestinian state" is a failure because of their own hatred.  That is the bottom line.
Click to expand...


The Christians and Muslims of Palestine are no different a position than the non-whites in South Africa.  They are simply resisting Jew occupation.There is no Palestinian state that can fail, there has never been one.  What are you talking about?


----------



## montelatici

ChrisL said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chris, the Palestinians are the least of Israel's problems, there are 500 million Arabs who will replace them and a Billion Muslims...They will defend their third holiest site to Israel's end if need be...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see any other countries giving Israel the difficult time that the palestinians do.  It just doesn't happen.  I don't think the other surrounding countries (except for maybe Iran) think that it is worth it to act like children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What other people do the Israelis hold in open air prisons?  You are aware that the Israeli Jews blockade and/or occupy the land the non-Jews live on or are you that far behind the curve that you haven't a clue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because they really aren't given many choices.  They have to put their citizens safety first, before the "comfort" of the Palestinian terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If they hadn't expelled the Christians and Muslims and stolen their land, there wouldn't be a problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stop dwelling on ancient history and concentrate on the here and now, and the future!!!  What's done is done and there is no undoing it!  Israel is a country FULL of people with an infrastructure, etc.  They are NOT going anywhere!  You have to learn to accept that and behave like adults and stop the attacks!
Click to expand...


The White South Africans thought the same thing.  Demographics are a bitch.  The Jews will either end up like the white Rhodesians or the white South Africans, it has been their choice, but I fear the Rhodesian option may be the only one for them before long.  Arrogance has its price.


----------



## pbel

Kondor3 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> The handwriting is on the wall, Israel controls their third holiest site and Muslim will _Never_ stand for that...
> 
> 
> 
> If they don't, they'll lose their First and Second Holiest Sites in the process. Even idiot Muslim Jihadists won't risk that. Mecca and Medinah will be glowing craters.
Click to expand...

Your answers are so stupid they really don't deserve an answer...If Israel ever nukes any Muslim country she will be nuked by Pakistan, and in a few years if not already many ME countries will have nukes...

Sir LimpDick you are a complete moron!


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> The handwriting is on the wall, Israel controls their third holiest site and Muslim will _Never_ stand for that...
> 
> 
> 
> If they don't, they'll lose their First and Second Holiest Sites in the process. Even idiot Muslim Jihadists won't risk that. Mecca and Medinah will be glowing craters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your answers are so stupid they really don't deserve an answer...If Israel ever nukes any Muslim country she will be nuked by Pakistan, and in a few years if not already many ME countries will have nukes...
> 
> Sir LimpDick you are a complete moron!
Click to expand...

Mind your manners in the presence of your betters, Muslim propaganda shill.

My post indicated what the Israeli response would be, should Jerusalem and Israel itself find themselves in imminent danger of being overrun by Muslim armies.

A defensive or vengeance move, rather than an Israeli-initiated aggression.

Also, you have far too much faith in Pakistan being willing to lob nukes at Israel.

Should they do so, the Israelis themselves will incinerate most of Pakistan's cities.

With the Indians sitting in the antechamber, waiting to mop-up what's left.

And if the Indians don't finish them off, we would.

As to any other Middle Eastern country acquiring nuclear weapons technology... wake me up when that happens.

As to your personal insults, one need only consider the source.

Being insulted by an Arab butt-buddy is high praise indeed.

Now, go dry-hump somebody else's leg for a while.

Miscreant hater-tool.


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see any other countries giving Israel the difficult time that the palestinians do.  It just doesn't happen.  I don't think the other surrounding countries (except for maybe Iran) think that it is worth it to act like children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What other people do the Israelis hold in open air prisons?  You are aware that the Israeli Jews blockade and/or occupy the land the non-Jews live on or are you that far behind the curve that you haven't a clue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because they really aren't given many choices.  They have to put their citizens safety first, before the "comfort" of the Palestinian terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If they hadn't expelled the Christians and Muslims and stolen their land, there wouldn't be a problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stop dwelling on ancient history and concentrate on the here and now, and the future!!!  What's done is done and there is no undoing it!  Israel is a country FULL of people with an infrastructure, etc.  They are NOT going anywhere!  You have to learn to accept that and behave like adults and stop the attacks!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The White South Africans thought the same thing.  Demographics are a bitch.  The Jews will either end up like the white Rhodesians or the white South Africans, it has been their choice, but I fear the Rhodesian option may be the only one for them before long.  Arrogance has its price.
Click to expand...

Only in your dreams.

Before that happens, the Muslim populations of both Gaza and the West Bank will be herded towards the borders and then expelled into Jordan and Lebanon.

There will be no demographic pressure allowed to grow, sufficient to cause the collapse of Israel.

The Palestinians are already compressed onto two land-masses the size of the head of a pin.

Militarily speaking, it will be a short campaign, to accomplish such objectives, and there will be nobody to stop them.

But, keep pushing that line of thought.

It will make The Expulsion all that much easier, if the move catches your friends by surprise; stunned by disbelief, that such is actually unfolding around them.

But, frankly, and in truth, I would not push the Israelis too hard in that matter.

It will only guarantee or hasten Expulsion Day.

You're not going to get your land back.

Ever.

Best to concede Reality, pack up, and move away.


----------



## pbel

Kondor3 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> The handwriting is on the wall, Israel controls their third holiest site and Muslim will _Never_ stand for that...
> 
> 
> 
> If they don't, they'll lose their First and Second Holiest Sites in the process. Even idiot Muslim Jihadists won't risk that. Mecca and Medinah will be glowing craters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your answers are so stupid they really don't deserve an answer...If Israel ever nukes any Muslim country she will be nuked by Pakistan, and in a few years if not already many ME countries will have nukes...
> 
> Sir LimpDick you are a complete moron!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mind your manners in the presence of your betters, Muslim propaganda shill.
> 
> My post indicated what the Israeli response would be, should Jerusalem and Israel itself find themselves in imminent danger of being overrun by Muslim armies.
> 
> A defensive or vengeance move, rather than an Israeli-initiated aggression.
> 
> Also, you have far too much faith in Pakistan being willing to lob nukes at Israel.
> 
> Should they do so, the Israelis themselves will incinerate most of Pakistan's cities.
> 
> With the Indians sitting in the antechamber, waiting to mop-up what's left.
> 
> And if the Indians don't finish them off, we would.
> 
> As to any other Middle Eastern country acquiring nuclear weapons technology... wake me up when that happens.
> 
> As to your personal insults, one need only consider the source.
> 
> Being insulted by an Arab butt-buddy is high praise indeed.
> 
> Now, go dry-hump somebody else's leg for a while.
> 
> Miscreant hater-tool.
Click to expand...

*Like I said, Israeli Ass-Licker, you are a complete Moron:*
The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities... Page 45 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
*Why Pakistan Is a Bigger Threat to Israel than Iran*
Posted:  06/28/2013 5:14 pm EDT  Updated:  08/28/2013 5:12 am EDT

Share112
Tweet132
4
Email 27
Comment 5

tumblr
reddit
#news_entries #ad_sharebox_260x60 img {padding:0px;margin:0px}



While the United States and Israel incessantly obsess with the possibility of a future nuclear Iran, they barely ever raise such concerns about Iran's next door Islamic neighbour Pakistan that brandishes its nuclear weapons with Islamic zeal and barely concealed contempt for the "kufaar" -- Jews, Christians, Hindus, atheists and other non-Muslims.
But there are others inside Pakistan who do not share America and Israel's myopia. The country's leading anti-nuclear activist, physicist Pervez Hoodbhoy in his book _Confronting the Bomb_, has this to say about Pakistan's nukes:
"The fear of loose [nuclear] weapons comes from the fact that Pakistan's armed forces harbour a hidden enemy within their ranks. Those wearing the cloak of religion freely walk in and out of top security nuclear installations every day ... The fear of the insider is ubiquitous and well-founded."


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> The handwriting is on the wall, Israel controls their third holiest site and Muslim will _Never_ stand for that...
> 
> 
> 
> If they don't, they'll lose their First and Second Holiest Sites in the process. Even idiot Muslim Jihadists won't risk that. Mecca and Medinah will be glowing craters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your answers are so stupid they really don't deserve an answer...If Israel ever nukes any Muslim country she will be nuked by Pakistan, and in a few years if not already many ME countries will have nukes...
> 
> Sir LimpDick you are a complete moron!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mind your manners in the presence of your betters, Muslim propaganda shill.
> 
> My post indicated what the Israeli response would be, should Jerusalem and Israel itself find themselves in imminent danger of being overrun by Muslim armies.
> 
> A defensive or vengeance move, rather than an Israeli-initiated aggression.
> 
> Also, you have far too much faith in Pakistan being willing to lob nukes at Israel.
> 
> Should they do so, the Israelis themselves will incinerate most of Pakistan's cities.
> 
> With the Indians sitting in the antechamber, waiting to mop-up what's left.
> 
> And if the Indians don't finish them off, we would.
> 
> As to any other Middle Eastern country acquiring nuclear weapons technology... wake me up when that happens.
> 
> As to your personal insults, one need only consider the source.
> 
> Being insulted by an Arab butt-buddy is high praise indeed.
> 
> Now, go dry-hump somebody else's leg for a while.
> 
> Miscreant hater-tool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Like I said, Israeli Ass-Licker, you are a complete Moron:*
> The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities... Page 45 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> *Why Pakistan Is a Bigger Threat to Israel than Iran*
> Posted:  06/28/2013 5:14 pm EDT  Updated:  08/28/2013 5:12 am EDT
> 
> Share112
> Tweet132
> 4
> Email 27
> Comment 5
> 
> tumblr
> reddit
> #news_entries #ad_sharebox_260x60 img {padding:0px;margin:0px}
> 
> 
> 
> While the United States and Israel incessantly obsess with the possibility of a future nuclear Iran, they barely ever raise such concerns about Iran's next door Islamic neighbour Pakistan that brandishes its nuclear weapons with Islamic zeal and barely concealed contempt for the "kufaar" -- Jews, Christians, Hindus, atheists and other non-Muslims.
> But there are others inside Pakistan who do not share America and Israel's myopia. The country's leading anti-nuclear activist, physicist Pervez Hoodbhoy in his book _Confronting the Bomb_, has this to say about Pakistan's nukes:
> "The fear of loose [nuclear] weapons comes from the fact that Pakistan's armed forces harbour a hidden enemy within their ranks. Those wearing the cloak of religion freely walk in and out of top security nuclear installations every day ... The fear of the insider is ubiquitous and well-founded."
Click to expand...

How nice.

You've found a book on Amazon whose opinions support your view that Pakistan will attack Israel with nuclear weapons.

That and $3.50 will buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

I stand by my earlier opinion.

Pakistan will not dare attack Israel, under virtually any circumstance.

They're far too worried about the Indians on their doorstep, and the reaction of the United States, should they ever be stupid enough to launch.


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> ...


You're a simple-minded plagiarist and one-trick-pony Muslim propagandist... someone who couldn't argue her way out of a wet paper bag.

If you have something intelligent to say on the subject of Pakistan attacking Israel with nuclear weapons, in the light of counterpointing, pertaining to India, the US, etc., then, by all means, have at it.


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> ...


Yes, yes, yes... very nice.

Now... 

Do you have something intelligent to say on the subject of Pakistan attacking Israel with nuclear weapons, in the light of counterpointing, pertaining to India, the US, etc.?


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> Its not a prophesy moron, its a fact...1.4 billion Muslims in time cannot be stopped!


Sure they can... it would be bad idea to piss off 2.2 billion Christians, not to mention the other faiths that the intolerant Muslims have pissed off over time.


----------



## montelatici

We Christians, worldwide, have no favorites between Muslims and Jews.  Good Christians consider both Muslims and Jews human beings that should convert to Christianity, but we hold no hate for either.


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> We Christians, worldwide, have no favorites between Muslims and Jews.  Good Christians consider both Muslims and Jews human beings that should convert to Christianity, but we hold no hate for either.


You're deluding yourself.

Islam has assaulted Christendom time and again over the centuries, ever since it began to infect regions beyond the boundaries of Arabia.

While it is true that Christendom has returned the favor on a number of occasions, until the past century or two, it was almost always as a reaction to Muslim attack.

The collective memory of Christianity is a little better than you give it credit for.

Most Christians - attempting to emulate the Love Thy Neighbor and Turn the Other Cheek teachings of its Founder - will not go out of their way to harass Islam.

However, when forced to choose between its Nemesis - Islam - and its spiritual Wellspring - Judaism - will choose to befriend Judaism every time.

That is not to say that Christians do not have a miserable track record in their dealings with Jews.

That is merely to say that when obliged to choose between Muslims and Jews, Christians will usually choose to befriend the Jews almost automatically.

You're really big on threatening the Jews with 1.4 billion Muslims.

You forget the 2.2 billion Christians that they have to take into account, when contemplating mischief against the Jews.

Besides... out of 1.4 billion Muslims... if you can get them to stop fighting amongst themselves for more than 10 minutes... very few will undertake Jihad in that context.

The Muslims have had their asses kicked and their heads handed to them by Israel - against frightful odds - on several occasions within Living Memory.

And, given the sad, sorry shape that Islam is in at-present, across the southern and eastern shores of the Mediterranean, and into Asia Minor and Central Asia, I don't think the Jews will have to sweat your pissants anytime soon, in the context of a serious assault - aggressive or supposedly punitive - directed against Israel.

Your beloved Muslims are a joke - and the only serious threat-vector within that entire domain at present - ISIS/ISIL - will be slapped down soon enough, one way or another.

So save your 1.4 billion Muslims scare-tactic bullshit for somebody naive enough to buy into it - stop it - yer scarin' the dogs in the back yard.


----------



## montelatici

"That is merely to say that when obliged to choose between Muslims and Jews, Christians will usually choose to befriend the Jews almost automatically."

Sure we do, that's why Muslims were sent to the concentration camps.  And, when it comes to interests, we Christians know that there are 1.4 billion Muslims and about 15 million Jews.  Who do you figure we would want to have better relations with if we had to choose? Add the fact that Muslims are becoming important minorities in Christian countries and are beginning to determine elections in various European countries, will, you get the picture.  Jews ought to start negotiating and quick, is what I recommend.


----------



## Daniyel

montelatici said:


> "That is merely to say that when obliged to choose between Muslims and Jews, Christians will usually choose to befriend the Jews almost automatically."
> 
> Sure we do, that's why Muslims were sent to the concentration camps.  And, when it comes to interests, we Christians know that there are 1.4 billion Muslims and about 15 million Jews.  Who do you figure we would want to have better relations with if we had to choose? Add the fact that Muslims are becoming important minorities in Christian countries and are beginning to determine elections in various European countries, will, you get the picture.  Jews ought to start negotiating and quick, is what I recommend.


There's plenty of animals in the zoo if you're looking for friends.


----------



## aris2chat

montelatici said:


> We Christians, worldwide, have no favorites between Muslims and Jews.  Good Christians consider both Muslims and Jews human beings that should convert to Christianity, but we hold no hate for either.



There are many roads in life, but only one destination.
What religion you are is of little importance, your actions and words for your fellow man is what you will be judge by.
Don't talk cr@p, don't spread lies, don't breed hate, don't incite violence, don't harm others.
Golden rule has been taught by every major religion in some form.  Bitching and fighting does not help.  Talking and finding some compromise, letting others live their own lives will go a long way.


----------



## montelatici

aris2chat said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> We Christians, worldwide, have no favorites between Muslims and Jews.  Good Christians consider both Muslims and Jews human beings that should convert to Christianity, but we hold no hate for either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are many roads in life, but only one destination.
> What religion you are is of little importance, your actions and words for your fellow man is what you will be judge by.
> Don't talk cr@p, don't spread lies, don't breed hate, don't incite violence, don't harm others.
> Golden rule has been taught by every major religion in some form.  Bitching and fighting does not help.  Talking and finding some compromise, letting others live their own lives will go a long way.
Click to expand...


The biggest challenge to compromise and peace are the Zionist myths.  And, after many years of study by many scholars, Jewish and otherwise, it has been proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that almost everything about Israel's creation is a myth. 

Until the Jews acknowledge that Israel was created at the expense of hundreds of thousands of non-Jews and acknowledge that they had no inherent right to dispossess those people, there will not be any compromise.  After all, if the myths were true, among them, the Jews arrived in an empty land, Palestine was teeming with Jews, there were no Christians or Muslims in Palestine, Palestinians were invented in 1967, Palestinians came from Egypt in the 20th century, the Palestinians left willingly, the Arab states attacked to force the Jews into the sea, etc., why should they compromise.

These myths are promulgated daily here in this forum as if they were fact, although they have been thoroughly debunked. Even when presented the facts in black and white from the most neutral sources possible (Government and International Organization archives), your friends deflect, deny and respond with the same old propaganda lifted from propaganda sites.

If the Jews would acknowledge that they brought great harm on hundreds of thousands of people (and continue to do so) there might be some chance of compromise and peace, but somehow I don't that will ever happen and unfortunately,  it will be a demographic struggle to the end.


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> The Christians and Muslims of Palestine are no different a position than the non-whites in South Africa.  They are simply resisting Jew occupation.There is no Palestinian state that can fail, there has never been one. ...


Good. Can palistanians quit their occupation now?


----------



## montelatici

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Christians and Muslims of Palestine are no different a position than the non-whites in South Africa.  They are simply resisting Jew occupation.There is no Palestinian state that can fail, there has never been one. ...
> 
> 
> 
> Good. Can palistanians quit their occupation now?
Click to expand...



That's why there can never be peace.  Observing from Mars one would shake his head and marvel at the absurdity of Mausers comment. It's cognitive dissonance taken to a ridiculous level.


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> Sure we do, that's why Muslims were sent to the concentration camps.  And, when it comes to interests, we Christians know that there are 1.4 billion Muslims and about 15 million Jews.  Who do you figure we would want to have better relations with if we had to choose? Add the fact that Muslims are becoming important minorities in Christian countries and are beginning to determine elections in various European countries, will, you get the picture.  Jews ought to start negotiating and quick, is what I recommend.





montelatici said:


> These myths are promulgated daily here in this forum as if they were fact, although they have been thoroughly debunked. Even when presented the facts in black and white from the most neutral sources possible (Government and International Organization archives), your friends deflect, deny and respond with the same old propaganda lifted from propaganda sites.  If the Jews would acknowledge that they brought great harm on hundreds of thousands of people (and continue to do so) there might be some chance of compromise and peace, but somehow I don't that will ever happen and unfortunately, it will be a demographic struggle to the end.


Drivelissimo!


----------



## montelatici

Classic!  And an example of  why there can never be peace.


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aww so now Israel is being accused for the time who knows what for inhumanity behavior, let me correct that, THE JEWS are being accused, pff modern blood libels, never was close to be true, but like the Hebrew saying 'Faith is the easiest and hardest thing to achieve in life', nailed it.
> 
> 
> 
> Never close to being true?  I don't think so!
> 
> Here's a short list of Israeli atrocities...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _– Tira, December 11, 1947 – five Palestinians were killed and six injured;
> 
> – a village outside Haifa, December 12, 1947 – 12 Palestinians killed;
> 
> – a village outside Tel Aviv, December 14, 1947 – 18 Palestinians killed and 100 injured;
> 
> – al-Khias, December 18, 1947 – the paramilitary Haganah killed 10 Palestinians, most inside their homes;
> 
> – Haifa, December 30, 1947 – six Palestinians killed and 42 wounded;
> 
> – Jerusalem, December 30, 1947 – Irgun terrorists threw a bomb from a speeding car killing 11 Palestinians and two Brits;
> 
> – Balad Esh-Sheikh, December 31, 1947 – the Haganah killed 60 Palestinians, most inside their homes;
> 
> – Jaffa, January 4, 1948 – the Stern Gang killed up to 30 and wounded 100 in a truck bombing;
> 
> – the Semiramis Hotel, Jerusalem, January 4, 1948 – the Haganah bombed the hotel killing 25 civilians;
> 
> – Jaffa Gate, Jerusalem, January 7, 1948 – 17 Palestinians killed;
> 
> – Tireh, February 10, 1948 – seven Palestinians killed and five injured;
> 
> – on a bus from Safad, February 12, 1948 – five Palestinians killed and five injured;
> 
> – Sa’sa’, February 14, 1948 – 60 Palestinians killed, mostly in their homes;
> 
> – Qisarya, February 15 – 20, 1948 – 25 Palestinians killed;
> 
> – Haifa, February 20, 1948 – six Palestinians killed and 36 wounded;
> 
> – Haifa, March 3, 1948 – the Stern Gang blew up the Salameh Building killing 11 Palestinians and wounding 27;
> 
> – al-Husayniyya, March 12 and 16 – 17 – the Palmach twice raided the village killing 15 and wounding 20 in the first attack; killing 30 in the second one;
> 
> – Jews blew up a train near Benjamina on March 31, 1948 killing 25 Palestinians and wounding 61;
> 
> – al-Sarafand, April 5, 1948 – 16 Palestinians were killed and 12 wounded, most when a house was mortared;
> 
> – Dier Yassin, April 9, 1948 – the Menachem Begin-led Irgun slaughtered well over 120 Palestinian men, women and children in a bloody rampage; The New York Times reported 254 killed on April 13; 53 orphaned children were dumped like trash along the wall of the Old City; homes were dynamited with inhabitants inside; people were shot at close range, including children; the massacre marked the beginning of what followed during Israel’s “War of Independence:” depopulating 531 towns and villages; 11 urban neighborhoods; massacring or displacing 800,000 Palestinians; and committing  countless rapes and other atrocities;” remember Dier Yassin; it, too, is immortalized;
> 
> – Tel Litvinsky, April 19, 1948 – Jews killed 90 Palestinians;
> 
> – Tiberias, April 19, 1948 – Jews blew up a home killing Palestinians inside;
> 
> – Ayn al-Zaytun and nearby villages, May 1 – 4, 1948 – 27 Palestinians killed;
> 
> – Acre, May 18, 1948 – Israeli troops killed over 100 Palestinians;
> 
> – al-Kabri, May 20, 1948 – Israeli forces killed villagers and machine-gunned children who survived;
> 
> – al-Tantura, May 22 – 23, 1948 – Israeli troops killed over 200 villagers, mostly unarmed young men shot in cold blood;
> 
> – on May 26, 1948, David Ben-Gurion formed the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) from the Haganah;
> 
> – Lydda, July 11 – 12, 1948 – the IDF killed several hundred civilians, including 80 machine-gunned inside the Dahmash mosque;
> 
> – Elot, late July, 1948 – the IDF arrested 46 young men; on August 3, several were found dead, and 14 of those arrested were shot in cold blood in an olive grove – in full view of the villagers;
> 
> – Suqrir, August 29, 1948 – the IDF killed 10 villagers;
> 
> – Hula, Lebanon, October 24 – 29, 1948 – the IDF machine-gunned 50 villagers;
> 
> – al-Dawayima, October 29, 1948 – the IDF killed up to 200 villagers;
> 
> – Majd al-Kurum, October 30, 1948 – the IDF slaughtered 20 or more villagers in cold blood;
> 
> – Saliha, October 30, 1948 – IDF forces blew up a house killing 94 Palestinians;
> 
> – Sa’sa’, October 30, 1948 – hundreds of Palestinians were slaughtered in cold blood; the entire village was expelled;
> 
> – Nahf, October 31, 1948 – a brutal massacre was carried out of unknown numbers;
> 
> – Khirbat al-Wa’ra al-Sawda, November 2, 1948 – the IDF killed 14 villagers;
> 
> – Beit Jala, January 6, 1952 – seven Palestinians were slaughtered in cold blood;
> 
> – Jerusalem, April 22, 1953 – the IDF killed 10 Palestinians;
> 
> – Bureji Refugee Camp, August 28, 1953 – the IDF killed  20 Palestinians and wounded 62 others;
> 
> – Qibya, Jordan, October 14, 1953 – Ariel Sharon’s infamous Unit 101 killed 70 villagers;
> 
> – Nahalin, Jordan, March 28, 1954 – the IDF killed nine Arabs and wounded 19;
> 
> – Gaza City, April 5, 1956 – IDF shelling killed 56 and wounded 193;
> 
> – Kafr Kassem, October 29, 1956 – the IDF killed about 50 men, women and children;
> 
> – the Suez War, October 29 – November 7, 1956 – the IDF executed about 273 Egyptian soldiers and civilians in cold blood;
> 
> – Khan Yunis, November 3, 1956 – the IDF killed dozens of civilians in cold blood;
> 
> – Rafah Refugee Camp, November 12, 1956 – the IDF slaughtered over 100 Palestinians;
> 
> – Nuqeibi, Syria, March 16 – 17, 1962 – IDF artillery and aircraft killed at least 30 unarmed villagers;
> 
> – Samu, Jordan, November 13, 1966 – the IDF destroyed 125 houses, a school, clinic and 15 houses in a nearby village killing 18 and wounded 54 in cold blood;
> 
> – the Six-Day War, June 5 – 11, 1967 – IDF forces preemptively and without cause attacked Egypt, Syria and Jordan; they massacred as many as 2000 helpless or captured Egyptian soldiers; killed about 340 Syrian villagers in the Golan Heights and displaced more than 300,000 Palestinians who fled to the Jordan River’s east bank along with others to Lebanon, Egypt and Syria;_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's the short list!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now be a good little Nazi and do the same for the Jews........................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But German didn't kill 6 million jews, I will say mostly jew covert as luthran to Hitler anger.
Click to expand...



 True mostly it was done by muslim troops at the command of the grand mufti.


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, for one thing, it has been many, many more than just one Jew who has been killed.  Israel has been dealing with terrorism for a very long time, much longer than the United States.
> 
> Do you think that Israel should not fight back?  Do you think they should lie down and die?  If they have the might and the fortitude, should they not fight for their country?  Why on earth would they not use their military might to defeat a declared enemy?    The expectations are quite comical actually.  No other nation in the world that is a victim of daily bombings from an enemy who has declared that their goal is to wipe out said nation would be asked to take such ridiculous measures.
> 
> 
> 
> Then what about those Palestinian who's country Jew occupied with the help of the super powers, Israelis killed them in millions and force to live into camps. What you expect to some one in this situation like palestinians are, do you think Palestinian should love invaders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Millions*?
> 
> Really?
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> Time to step away from the hooka, son... smokin' that camel shit is rotting your brain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> look jew have to accept the facts that they can not beat the numbers, jew claim that German killed 6 millions jew is correct and if Muslim claim that jew killed millions Muslims wrong, this the reason I am saying that jew have give this silly idea that they are special race and masaya is coming. Please free your self from your master or elders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
Click to expand...



 Do you mean facts and figures like 10 million innocents mass murdered by muslims in the last 66 years, the 100 years before that it was 30 million plus. These are islams own figures that they have written down. So stick those facts in your pipe bomb and smoke them


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Christians and Muslims of Palestine are no different a position than the non-whites in South Africa.  They are simply resisting Jew occupation.There is no Palestinian state that can fail, there has never been one. ...
> 
> 
> 
> Good. Can palistanians quit their occupation now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's why there can never be peace.
Click to expand...

Unless palistanians quit their occupation and get a life and a job, of course.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Millions*?
> 
> Really?
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> Time to step away from the hooka, son... smokin' that camel shit is rotting your brain.
> 
> 
> 
> look jew have to accept the facts that they can not beat the numbers, jew claim that German killed 6 millions jew is correct and if Muslim claim that jew killed millions Muslims wrong, this the reason I am saying that jew have give this silly idea that they are special race and masaya is coming. Please free your self from your master or elders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
Click to expand...




 Not according to the Geneva conventions that put the thousands of deaths at the feet of hamas because they use them as human shields and prefer to hide in civilian areas when firing rockets at Israeli children.


----------



## Phoenall

pbel said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
> 
> 
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right! By the hundred thousands...When the time comes they'll return the favor...
Click to expand...




 Time for you to read the Geneva conventions and see what they say about the Palestinians using civilian areas to wage war from


----------



## Phoenall

pbel said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right! By the hundred thousands...When the time comes they'll return the favor...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another sunstroke prophet? Get lost moron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its not a prophesy moron, its a fact...1.4 billion Muslims in time cannot be stopped!
Click to expand...




 And face extinction when the rest of the world retaliates. The UN forbids such a thing from happening and would mobilise the armies of the west to take action against the arabs. They would be extinct before the first round was fired, and the Islamic delegates at the UN would be clapped in irons and dragged before the ICJ and sentenced to execution.


----------



## ChrisL

Phoenall said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right! By the hundred thousands...When the time comes they'll return the favor...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another sunstroke prophet? Get lost moron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its not a prophesy moron, its a fact...1.4 billion Muslims in time cannot be stopped!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And face extinction when the rest of the world retaliates. The UN forbids such a thing from happening and would mobilise the armies of the west to take action against the arabs. They would be extinct before the first round was fired, and the Islamic delegates at the UN would be clapped in irons and dragged before the ICJ and sentenced to execution.
Click to expand...


She is just spewing hyperbole obviously.  For one thing, the middle east is so messed up, there is just no way those people could collaborate on anything.  Not to mention, they hate one another too.  Lol!


----------



## aris2chat

montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> We Christians, worldwide, have no favorites between Muslims and Jews.  Good Christians consider both Muslims and Jews human beings that should convert to Christianity, but we hold no hate for either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are many roads in life, but only one destination.
> What religion you are is of little importance, your actions and words for your fellow man is what you will be judge by.
> Don't talk cr@p, don't spread lies, don't breed hate, don't incite violence, don't harm others.
> Golden rule has been taught by every major religion in some form.  Bitching and fighting does not help.  Talking and finding some compromise, letting others live their own lives will go a long way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The biggest challenge to compromise and peace are the Zionist myths.  And, after many years of study by many scholars, Jewish and otherwise, it has been proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that almost everything about Israel's creation is a myth.
> 
> Until the Jews acknowledge that Israel was created at the expense of hundreds of thousands of non-Jews and acknowledge that they had no inherent right to dispossess those people, there will not be any compromise.  After all, if the myths were true, among them, the Jews arrived in an empty land, Palestine was teeming with Jews, there were no Christians or Muslims in Palestine, Palestinians were invented in 1967, Palestinians came from Egypt in the 20th century, the Palestinians left willingly, the Arab states attacked to force the Jews into the sea, etc., why should they compromise.
> 
> These myths are promulgated daily here in this forum as if they were fact, although they have been thoroughly debunked. Even when presented the facts in black and white from the most neutral sources possible (Government and International Organization archives), your friends deflect, deny and respond with the same old propaganda lifted from propaganda sites.
> 
> If the Jews would acknowledge that they brought great harm on hundreds of thousands of people (and continue to do so) there might be some chance of compromise and peace, but somehow I don't that will ever happen and unfortunately,  it will be a demographic struggle to the end.
Click to expand...



Do you seriously expect to play "my list is longer than your list" about the history of jews?
Everything factual you don't want to believe is a myth to you.  A ton of evidence and studies, you intentionally ignore.  
You have been debunked on every topic but you still cling to the old racist rhetoric and lies used by nazis and muslims for more than a century.  Lie proven in courts around the world but are regurgitated as absolute facts by hatemongers.
You really should take a class in rational thinking and logic.
You make accusation, cut down people's evidence while offering only propaganda and your bias suppositions.  You attack but offer only misinformation and disproven sites and figures.
Find something fresh or people will just tune you out.
Bring reasonable suggestions and possible solutions instead of just hate.
Seek to know and treat others as equals instead of condemn them as the lowest slime.
You have become very sad and tired.  Go for a walk and get a life.  It might bring you a new perspective.


----------



## Penelope

aris2chat said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> We Christians, worldwide, have no favorites between Muslims and Jews.  Good Christians consider both Muslims and Jews human beings that should convert to Christianity, but we hold no hate for either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are many roads in life, but only one destination.
> What religion you are is of little importance, your actions and words for your fellow man is what you will be judge by.
> Don't talk cr@p, don't spread lies, don't breed hate, don't incite violence, don't harm others.
> Golden rule has been taught by every major religion in some form.  Bitching and fighting does not help.  Talking and finding some compromise, letting others live their own lives will go a long way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The biggest challenge to compromise and peace are the Zionist myths.  And, after many years of study by many scholars, Jewish and otherwise, it has been proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that almost everything about Israel's creation is a myth.
> 
> Until the Jews acknowledge that Israel was created at the expense of hundreds of thousands of non-Jews and acknowledge that they had no inherent right to dispossess those people, there will not be any compromise.  After all, if the myths were true, among them, the Jews arrived in an empty land, Palestine was teeming with Jews, there were no Christians or Muslims in Palestine, Palestinians were invented in 1967, Palestinians came from Egypt in the 20th century, the Palestinians left willingly, the Arab states attacked to force the Jews into the sea, etc., why should they compromise.
> 
> These myths are promulgated daily here in this forum as if they were fact, although they have been thoroughly debunked. Even when presented the facts in black and white from the most neutral sources possible (Government and International Organization archives), your friends deflect, deny and respond with the same old propaganda lifted from propaganda sites.
> 
> If the Jews would acknowledge that they brought great harm on hundreds of thousands of people (and continue to do so) there might be some chance of compromise and peace, but somehow I don't that will ever happen and unfortunately,  it will be a demographic struggle to the end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you seriously expect to play "my list is longer than your list" about the history of jews?
> Everything factual you don't want to believe is a myth to you.  A ton of evidence and studies, you intentionally ignore.
> You have been debunked on every topic but you still cling to the old racist rhetoric and lies used by nazis and muslims for more than a century.  Lie proven in courts around the world but are regurgitated as absolute facts by hatemongers.
> You really should take a class in rational thinking and logic.
> You make accusation, cut down people's evidence while offering only propaganda and your bias suppositions.  You attack but offer only misinformation and disproven sites and figures.
> Find something fresh or people will just tune you out.
> Bring reasonable suggestions and possible solutions instead of just hate.
> Seek to know and treat others as equals instead of condemn them as the lowest slime.
> You have become very sad and tired.  Go for a walk and get a life.  It might bring you a new perspective.
Click to expand...


Here , 9 11 Missing Links  watch the movie.


----------



## montelatici

aris2chat said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> We Christians, worldwide, have no favorites between Muslims and Jews.  Good Christians consider both Muslims and Jews human beings that should convert to Christianity, but we hold no hate for either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are many roads in life, but only one destination.
> What religion you are is of little importance, your actions and words for your fellow man is what you will be judge by.
> Don't talk cr@p, don't spread lies, don't breed hate, don't incite violence, don't harm others.
> Golden rule has been taught by every major religion in some form.  Bitching and fighting does not help.  Talking and finding some compromise, letting others live their own lives will go a long way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The biggest challenge to compromise and peace are the Zionist myths.  And, after many years of study by many scholars, Jewish and otherwise, it has been proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that almost everything about Israel's creation is a myth.
> 
> Until the Jews acknowledge that Israel was created at the expense of hundreds of thousands of non-Jews and acknowledge that they had no inherent right to dispossess those people, there will not be any compromise.  After all, if the myths were true, among them, the Jews arrived in an empty land, Palestine was teeming with Jews, there were no Christians or Muslims in Palestine, Palestinians were invented in 1967, Palestinians came from Egypt in the 20th century, the Palestinians left willingly, the Arab states attacked to force the Jews into the sea, etc., why should they compromise.
> 
> These myths are promulgated daily here in this forum as if they were fact, although they have been thoroughly debunked. Even when presented the facts in black and white from the most neutral sources possible (Government and International Organization archives), your friends deflect, deny and respond with the same old propaganda lifted from propaganda sites.
> 
> If the Jews would acknowledge that they brought great harm on hundreds of thousands of people (and continue to do so) there might be some chance of compromise and peace, but somehow I don't that will ever happen and unfortunately,  it will be a demographic struggle to the end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you seriously expect to play "my list is longer than your list" about the history of jews?
> Everything factual you don't want to believe is a myth to you.  A ton of evidence and studies, you intentionally ignore.
> You have been debunked on every topic but you still cling to the old racist rhetoric and lies used by nazis and muslims for more than a century.  Lie proven in courts around the world but are regurgitated as absolute facts by hatemongers.
> You really should take a class in rational thinking and logic.
> You make accusation, cut down people's evidence while offering only propaganda and your bias suppositions.  You attack but offer only misinformation and disproven sites and figures.
> Find something fresh or people will just tune you out.
> Bring reasonable suggestions and possible solutions instead of just hate.
> Seek to know and treat others as equals instead of condemn them as the lowest slime.
> You have become very sad and tired.  Go for a walk and get a life.  It might bring you a new perspective.
Click to expand...


I  post documents from archives that are official reports of the administrators of the Mandate.  No suppositions, no bias, just facts. There is no hate, just the recognition of the facts.

But my point is made.  You will only believe the Zionist myths and reject the facts as reported by the people, third parties, who were responsible for reporting facts to the LoN or the UN as the Mandatory.

If you (and the rest of the Jews in Israel)  believe the myths as truths, then there can be no compromise on the Jew's part. 

By the way melodrama doesn't change the facts.


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> "That is merely to say that when obliged to choose between Muslims and Jews, Christians will usually choose to befriend the Jews almost automatically."
> 
> Sure we do, that's why Muslims were sent to the concentration camps...


Did I not say that the Christians have a lousy track record in their dealings with the Jews?

No, I said that when forced to choose between Muslims and Jews, Christians will choose the Jews almost automatically, nearly every time.



> ..._And, when it comes to interests, we Christians know that there are 1.4 billion Muslims and about 15 million Jews. Who do you figure we would want to have better relations with if we had to choose?_...


You are (trying, and failing) to compare apples and oranges.

Christianity, collectively, remembers multiple large-scale assaults upon Christendom over the centuries, it understands that Islam is ultimately and unrelentingly hostile-to and intolerant-of Christianity, and also remembers that Judaism is Christianity's spiritual mothership.

When forced to choose between a large, strutting trollop with a full purse, and one's mother, to defend and stand alongside one or the other, most Christians will choose their mother.



> ...Add the fact that Muslims are becoming important minorities in Christian countries and are beginning to determine elections in various European countries...


Yeah, in places like the United Kingdom and Germany and France, where Prime Ministers have openly admitted that Islam-focused 'multiculturalism' is not working and that such populations have become highly problematic - hinting at more drastic measures against these alien influences in the not-too-distant future.



> ... will, you get the picture.  Jews ought to start negotiating and quick, is what I recommend.


That, or commit-to and/or fast-track an en masse Expulsion, designed to eliminate the Mortal Enemy in their midst, without slaughtering them.

But that's a range of options for them to consider and implement or reject, not me.


----------



## Kondor3

aris2chat said:


> ...Don't talk cr@p, don't spread lies, don't breed hate, don't incite violence, don't harm others. Golden rule has been taught by every major religion in some form.  Bitching and fighting does not help.  Talking and finding some compromise, letting others live their own lives will go a long way.


And when the *Sacred Texts* of _one_ religion in the mix are absolutely _saturated_ with encouragements and permissions to wage war upon and to commit violence against Unbelievers, going so far as to promise scores of virginal beauties if one dies while fighting for The Faith?


----------



## montelatici

Serbia tried to expel the Muslims from Kosovo.  It didn't go too well for them.


----------



## montelatici

Kondor3 said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Don't talk cr@p, don't spread lies, don't breed hate, don't incite violence, don't harm others. Golden rule has been taught by every major religion in some form.  Bitching and fighting does not help.  Talking and finding some compromise, letting others live their own lives will go a long way.
> 
> 
> 
> And when the *Sacred Texts* of _one_ religion in the mix are absolutely saturated with encouragements and permissions to wage war upon and to commit violence against Unbelievers, going so far as to promise scores of virginal beauties
Click to expand...


Are you talking about the Old Testament and the permissions to wage war and to commit violence against Gentiles/Goyim?


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Don't talk cr@p, don't spread lies, don't breed hate, don't incite violence, don't harm others. Golden rule has been taught by every major religion in some form.  Bitching and fighting does not help.  Talking and finding some compromise, letting others live their own lives will go a long way.
> 
> 
> 
> And when the *Sacred Texts* of _one_ religion in the mix are absolutely saturated with encouragements and permissions to wage war upon and to commit violence against Unbelievers, going so far as to promise scores of virginal beauties
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Old Testament and the permissions to wage war and to commit violence against Gentiles/Goyim?
Click to expand...

The Old Testament, et al, does not promise scores of virginal beauties to those who die fighting for The Faith. Try again.


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> Serbia tried to expel the Muslims from Kosovo.  It didn't go too well for them.


That's because the United States was not on-board with the idea, either openly, or behind the scenes.

It was also years before 9-11.


----------



## toastman

aris2chat said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> We Christians, worldwide, have no favorites between Muslims and Jews.  Good Christians consider both Muslims and Jews human beings that should convert to Christianity, but we hold no hate for either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are many roads in life, but only one destination.
> What religion you are is of little importance, your actions and words for your fellow man is what you will be judge by.
> Don't talk cr@p, don't spread lies, don't breed hate, don't incite violence, don't harm others.
> Golden rule has been taught by every major religion in some form.  Bitching and fighting does not help.  Talking and finding some compromise, letting others live their own lives will go a long way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The biggest challenge to compromise and peace are the Zionist myths.  And, after many years of study by many scholars, Jewish and otherwise, it has been proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that almost everything about Israel's creation is a myth.
> 
> Until the Jews acknowledge that Israel was created at the expense of hundreds of thousands of non-Jews and acknowledge that they had no inherent right to dispossess those people, there will not be any compromise.  After all, if the myths were true, among them, the Jews arrived in an empty land, Palestine was teeming with Jews, there were no Christians or Muslims in Palestine, Palestinians were invented in 1967, Palestinians came from Egypt in the 20th century, the Palestinians left willingly, the Arab states attacked to force the Jews into the sea, etc., why should they compromise.
> 
> These myths are promulgated daily here in this forum as if they were fact, although they have been thoroughly debunked. Even when presented the facts in black and white from the most neutral sources possible (Government and International Organization archives), your friends deflect, deny and respond with the same old propaganda lifted from propaganda sites.
> 
> If the Jews would acknowledge that they brought great harm on hundreds of thousands of people (and continue to do so) there might be some chance of compromise and peace, but somehow I don't that will ever happen and unfortunately,  it will be a demographic struggle to the end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you seriously expect to play "my list is longer than your list" about the history of jews?
> Everything factual you don't want to believe is a myth to you.  A ton of evidence and studies, you intentionally ignore.
> You have been debunked on every topic but you still cling to the old racist rhetoric and lies used by nazis and muslims for more than a century.  Lie proven in courts around the world but are regurgitated as absolute facts by hatemongers.
> You really should take a class in rational thinking and logic.
> You make accusation, cut down people's evidence while offering only propaganda and your bias suppositions.  You attack but offer only misinformation and disproven sites and figures.
> Find something fresh or people will just tune you out.
> Bring reasonable suggestions and possible solutions instead of just hate.
> Seek to know and treat others as equals instead of condemn them as the lowest slime.
> You have become very sad and tired.  Go for a walk and get a life.  It might bring you a new perspective.
Click to expand...


     

Everything you said is 100% true and EXACTLY what I've been thinking.

Props for posting this !


----------



## toastman

Penelope said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> We Christians, worldwide, have no favorites between Muslims and Jews.  Good Christians consider both Muslims and Jews human beings that should convert to Christianity, but we hold no hate for either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are many roads in life, but only one destination.
> What religion you are is of little importance, your actions and words for your fellow man is what you will be judge by.
> Don't talk cr@p, don't spread lies, don't breed hate, don't incite violence, don't harm others.
> Golden rule has been taught by every major religion in some form.  Bitching and fighting does not help.  Talking and finding some compromise, letting others live their own lives will go a long way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The biggest challenge to compromise and peace are the Zionist myths.  And, after many years of study by many scholars, Jewish and otherwise, it has been proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that almost everything about Israel's creation is a myth.
> 
> Until the Jews acknowledge that Israel was created at the expense of hundreds of thousands of non-Jews and acknowledge that they had no inherent right to dispossess those people, there will not be any compromise.  After all, if the myths were true, among them, the Jews arrived in an empty land, Palestine was teeming with Jews, there were no Christians or Muslims in Palestine, Palestinians were invented in 1967, Palestinians came from Egypt in the 20th century, the Palestinians left willingly, the Arab states attacked to force the Jews into the sea, etc., why should they compromise.
> 
> These myths are promulgated daily here in this forum as if they were fact, although they have been thoroughly debunked. Even when presented the facts in black and white from the most neutral sources possible (Government and International Organization archives), your friends deflect, deny and respond with the same old propaganda lifted from propaganda sites.
> 
> If the Jews would acknowledge that they brought great harm on hundreds of thousands of people (and continue to do so) there might be some chance of compromise and peace, but somehow I don't that will ever happen and unfortunately,  it will be a demographic struggle to the end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you seriously expect to play "my list is longer than your list" about the history of jews?
> Everything factual you don't want to believe is a myth to you.  A ton of evidence and studies, you intentionally ignore.
> You have been debunked on every topic but you still cling to the old racist rhetoric and lies used by nazis and muslims for more than a century.  Lie proven in courts around the world but are regurgitated as absolute facts by hatemongers.
> You really should take a class in rational thinking and logic.
> You make accusation, cut down people's evidence while offering only propaganda and your bias suppositions.  You attack but offer only misinformation and disproven sites and figures.
> Find something fresh or people will just tune you out.
> Bring reasonable suggestions and possible solutions instead of just hate.
> Seek to know and treat others as equals instead of condemn them as the lowest slime.
> You have become very sad and tired.  Go for a walk and get a life.  It might bring you a new perspective.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here , 9 11 Missing Links  watch the movie.
Click to expand...


----------



## Rehmani

ChrisL said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then what about those Palestinian who's country Jew occupied with the help of the super powers, Israelis killed them in millions and force to live into camps. What you expect to some one in this situation like palestinians are, do you think Palestinian should love invaders.
> 
> 
> 
> *Millions*?
> 
> Really?
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> Time to step away from the hooka, son... smokin' that camel shit is rotting your brain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> look jew have to accept the facts that they can not beat the numbers, jew claim that German killed 6 millions jew is correct and if Muslim claim that jew killed millions Muslims wrong, this the reason I am saying that jew have give this silly idea that they are special race and masaya is coming. Please free your self from your master or elders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, is that so.  "Jews" do this?  I think you need to post a link.
Click to expand...

You are paid propagandist, you should know that instead protecting terror in Israeli uniform.


----------



## Rehmani

Daniyel said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then what about those Palestinian who's country Jew occupied with the help of the super powers, Israelis killed them in millions and force to live into camps. What you expect to some one in this situation like palestinians are, do you think Palestinian should love invaders.
> 
> 
> 
> *Millions*?
> 
> Really?
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> Time to step away from the hooka, son... smokin' that camel shit is rotting your brain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> look jew have to accept the facts that they can not beat the numbers, jew claim that German killed 6 millions jew is correct and if Muslim claim that jew killed millions Muslims wrong, this the reason I am saying that jew have give this silly idea that they are special race and masaya is coming. Please free your self from your master or elders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
Click to expand...

In fact you are the one who spreading hat and terror, and earning Israeli dollar shame on you dumb.


----------



## Rehmani

Daniyel said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> 
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right! By the hundred thousands...When the time comes they'll return the favor...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another sunstroke prophet? Get lost moron.
Click to expand...

Why don't you get lost evil. You paid tout sh..........
Jew are not special race and masya not coming, free your self dumb.
Why jew population not increasing, where jew disappear after birth, turn spy on others.


----------



## Rehmani

montelatici said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Millions*?
> 
> Really?
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> Time to step away from the hooka, son... smokin' that camel shit is rotting your brain.
> 
> 
> 
> look jew have to accept the facts that they can not beat the numbers, jew claim that German killed 6 millions jew is correct and if Muslim claim that jew killed millions Muslims wrong, this the reason I am saying that jew have give this silly idea that they are special race and masaya is coming. Please free your self from your master or elders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
Click to expand...

Then German killed jews may be in thousands not million.
I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and maeaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations.


----------



## Rehmani

Daniyel said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> look jew have to accept the facts that they can not beat the numbers, jew claim that German killed 6 millions jew is correct and if Muslim claim that jew killed millions Muslims wrong, this the reason I am saying that jew have give this silly idea that they are special race and masaya is coming. Please free your self from your master or elders.
> 
> 
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
Click to expand...

Then German killed jew in thousands not in millions.
I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and maeaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations.


----------



## Rehmani

pbel said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
> 
> 
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right! By the hundred thousands...When the time comes they'll return the favor...
Click to expand...

For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and maeaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations.


----------



## theliq

Rehmani said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> look jew have to accept the facts that they can not beat the numbers, jew claim that German killed 6 millions jew is correct and if Muslim claim that jew killed millions Muslims wrong, this the reason I am saying that jew have give this silly idea that they are special race and masaya is coming. Please free your self from your master or elders.
> 
> 
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then German killed jews may be in thousands not million.
> I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and maeaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations.
Click to expand...

Firstly Rehmani as most know on here I am for a Free Palestine and Free Israel......but I must correct you on a couple of points,firstly the Nazis eliminated Millions of Jews(but more Russians),I agree they are not a special race...they are like all of us "bitsas"(a bit of this and a bit of that)........Jews have murdered over 62,000 Palestinians,maily women and children since 1940,compared to 9,578 Jews killed by Palestinians.

Rehmani....everyone spies on everyone,the Israelis are no different really to anyone else.....as for having a dialogue with Danyal and Condor.....don't waste your time...they are rabid Zionist Terrorists.....Israel based....steve


----------



## Rehmani

pbel said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right! By the hundred thousands...When the time comes they'll return the favor...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another sunstroke prophet? Get lost moron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its not a prophesy moron, its a fact...1.4 billion Muslims in time cannot be stopped!
Click to expand...

For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.


----------



## Rehmani

Rehmani said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, for one thing, it has been many, many more than just one Jew who has been killed.  Israel has been dealing with terrorism for a very long time, much longer than the United States.
> 
> Do you think that Israel should not fight back?  Do you think they should lie down and die?  If they have the might and the fortitude, should they not fight for their country?  Why on earth would they not use their military might to defeat a declared enemy?    The expectations are quite comical actually.  No other nation in the world that is a victim of daily bombings from an enemy who has declared that their goal is to wipe out said nation would be asked to take such ridiculous measures.
> 
> 
> 
> Then what about those Palestinian who's country Jew occupied with the help of the super powers, Israelis killed them in millions and force to live into camps. What you expect to some one in this situation like palestinians are, do you think Palestinian should love invaders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Millions*?
> 
> Really?
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> Time to step away from the hooka, son... smokin' that camel shit is rotting your brain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> look jew have to accept the facts that they can not beat the numbers, jew claim that German killed 6 millions jew is correct and if Muslim claim that jew killed millions Muslims wrong, this the reason I am saying that jew have give this silly idea that they are special race and masaya is coming. Please free your self from your master or elders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
Click to expand...

For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.


----------



## Rehmani

theliq said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
> 
> 
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then German killed jews may be in thousands not million.
> I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and maeaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Firstly Rehmani as most know on here I am for a Free Palestine and Free Israel......but I must correct you on a couple of points,firstly the Nazis eliminated Millions of Jews(but more Russians),I agree they are not a special race...they are like all of us "bitsas"(a bit of this and a bit of that)........Jews have murdered over 62,000 Palestinians,maily women and children since 1940,compared to 9,578 Jews killed by Palestinians.
> 
> Rehmani....everyone spies on everyone,the Israelis are no different really to anyone else.....as for having a dialogue with Danyal and Condor.....don't waste your time...they are rabid Zionist Terrorists.....Israel based....steve
Click to expand...

Theliq I garee with you. But we have to reply them some constant information to wash their brain from the nonsense they caring with them, like a special race or masaya coming or suck world whole money and make the world jew slave all these rubbish. I am sending this message with every post to every one to bring awareness.


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Rehmani

montelatici said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
> 
> 
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Over two thousand were killed by Israelis over a few weeks just this summer you nut.
Click to expand...

For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.


ChrisL said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> 
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Over two thousand were killed by Israelis over a few weeks just this summer you nut.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because the Palestinian government does not care about them one bit and uses them as pawns in their sick game.  They need to start lying the blame where it belongs, their government which abuses and oppresses them and will continue to do so unless they demand that it stop.  There will probably have to be an uprising by the citizens before things will ever change there sadly.  Or Israel will end up having no choice but to utterly destroy them.
Click to expand...

How silly you are, what government you talking about dumb, can't you see, Palestinians are under occupation you moron evil think and thinks silly paid tout of jewish.
For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aww so now Israel is being accused for the time who knows what for inhumanity behavior, let me correct that, THE JEWS are being accused, pff modern blood libels, never was close to be true, but like the Hebrew saying 'Faith is the easiest and hardest thing to achieve in life', nailed it.
> 
> 
> 
> Never close to being true?  I don't think so!
> 
> Here's a short list of Israeli atrocities...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _– Tira, December 11, 1947 – five Palestinians were killed and six injured;
> 
> – a village outside Haifa, December 12, 1947 – 12 Palestinians killed;
> 
> – a village outside Tel Aviv, December 14, 1947 – 18 Palestinians killed and 100 injured;
> 
> – al-Khias, December 18, 1947 – the paramilitary Haganah killed 10 Palestinians, most inside their homes;
> 
> – Haifa, December 30, 1947 – six Palestinians killed and 42 wounded;
> 
> – Jerusalem, December 30, 1947 – Irgun terrorists threw a bomb from a speeding car killing 11 Palestinians and two Brits;
> 
> – Balad Esh-Sheikh, December 31, 1947 – the Haganah killed 60 Palestinians, most inside their homes;
> 
> – Jaffa, January 4, 1948 – the Stern Gang killed up to 30 and wounded 100 in a truck bombing;
> 
> – the Semiramis Hotel, Jerusalem, January 4, 1948 – the Haganah bombed the hotel killing 25 civilians;
> 
> – Jaffa Gate, Jerusalem, January 7, 1948 – 17 Palestinians killed;
> 
> – Tireh, February 10, 1948 – seven Palestinians killed and five injured;
> 
> – on a bus from Safad, February 12, 1948 – five Palestinians killed and five injured;
> 
> – Sa’sa’, February 14, 1948 – 60 Palestinians killed, mostly in their homes;
> 
> – Qisarya, February 15 – 20, 1948 – 25 Palestinians killed;
> 
> – Haifa, February 20, 1948 – six Palestinians killed and 36 wounded;
> 
> – Haifa, March 3, 1948 – the Stern Gang blew up the Salameh Building killing 11 Palestinians and wounding 27;
> 
> – al-Husayniyya, March 12 and 16 – 17 – the Palmach twice raided the village killing 15 and wounding 20 in the first attack; killing 30 in the second one;
> 
> – Jews blew up a train near Benjamina on March 31, 1948 killing 25 Palestinians and wounding 61;
> 
> – al-Sarafand, April 5, 1948 – 16 Palestinians were killed and 12 wounded, most when a house was mortared;
> 
> – Dier Yassin, April 9, 1948 – the Menachem Begin-led Irgun slaughtered well over 120 Palestinian men, women and children in a bloody rampage; The New York Times reported 254 killed on April 13; 53 orphaned children were dumped like trash along the wall of the Old City; homes were dynamited with inhabitants inside; people were shot at close range, including children; the massacre marked the beginning of what followed during Israel’s “War of Independence:” depopulating 531 towns and villages; 11 urban neighborhoods; massacring or displacing 800,000 Palestinians; and committing  countless rapes and other atrocities;” remember Dier Yassin; it, too, is immortalized;
> 
> – Tel Litvinsky, April 19, 1948 – Jews killed 90 Palestinians;
> 
> – Tiberias, April 19, 1948 – Jews blew up a home killing Palestinians inside;
> 
> – Ayn al-Zaytun and nearby villages, May 1 – 4, 1948 – 27 Palestinians killed;
> 
> – Acre, May 18, 1948 – Israeli troops killed over 100 Palestinians;
> 
> – al-Kabri, May 20, 1948 – Israeli forces killed villagers and machine-gunned children who survived;
> 
> – al-Tantura, May 22 – 23, 1948 – Israeli troops killed over 200 villagers, mostly unarmed young men shot in cold blood;
> 
> – on May 26, 1948, David Ben-Gurion formed the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) from the Haganah;
> 
> – Lydda, July 11 – 12, 1948 – the IDF killed several hundred civilians, including 80 machine-gunned inside the Dahmash mosque;
> 
> – Elot, late July, 1948 – the IDF arrested 46 young men; on August 3, several were found dead, and 14 of those arrested were shot in cold blood in an olive grove – in full view of the villagers;
> 
> – Suqrir, August 29, 1948 – the IDF killed 10 villagers;
> 
> – Hula, Lebanon, October 24 – 29, 1948 – the IDF machine-gunned 50 villagers;
> 
> – al-Dawayima, October 29, 1948 – the IDF killed up to 200 villagers;
> 
> – Majd al-Kurum, October 30, 1948 – the IDF slaughtered 20 or more villagers in cold blood;
> 
> – Saliha, October 30, 1948 – IDF forces blew up a house killing 94 Palestinians;
> 
> – Sa’sa’, October 30, 1948 – hundreds of Palestinians were slaughtered in cold blood; the entire village was expelled;
> 
> – Nahf, October 31, 1948 – a brutal massacre was carried out of unknown numbers;
> 
> – Khirbat al-Wa’ra al-Sawda, November 2, 1948 – the IDF killed 14 villagers;
> 
> – Beit Jala, January 6, 1952 – seven Palestinians were slaughtered in cold blood;
> 
> – Jerusalem, April 22, 1953 – the IDF killed 10 Palestinians;
> 
> – Bureji Refugee Camp, August 28, 1953 – the IDF killed  20 Palestinians and wounded 62 others;
> 
> – Qibya, Jordan, October 14, 1953 – Ariel Sharon’s infamous Unit 101 killed 70 villagers;
> 
> – Nahalin, Jordan, March 28, 1954 – the IDF killed nine Arabs and wounded 19;
> 
> – Gaza City, April 5, 1956 – IDF shelling killed 56 and wounded 193;
> 
> – Kafr Kassem, October 29, 1956 – the IDF killed about 50 men, women and children;
> 
> – the Suez War, October 29 – November 7, 1956 – the IDF executed about 273 Egyptian soldiers and civilians in cold blood;
> 
> – Khan Yunis, November 3, 1956 – the IDF killed dozens of civilians in cold blood;
> 
> – Rafah Refugee Camp, November 12, 1956 – the IDF slaughtered over 100 Palestinians;
> 
> – Nuqeibi, Syria, March 16 – 17, 1962 – IDF artillery and aircraft killed at least 30 unarmed villagers;
> 
> – Samu, Jordan, November 13, 1966 – the IDF destroyed 125 houses, a school, clinic and 15 houses in a nearby village killing 18 and wounded 54 in cold blood;
> 
> – the Six-Day War, June 5 – 11, 1967 – IDF forces preemptively and without cause attacked Egypt, Syria and Jordan; they massacred as many as 2000 helpless or captured Egyptian soldiers; killed about 340 Syrian villagers in the Golan Heights and displaced more than 300,000 Palestinians who fled to the Jordan River’s east bank along with others to Lebanon, Egypt and Syria;_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's the short list!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now be a good little Nazi and do the same for the Jews........................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But German didn't kill 6 million jews, I will say mostly jew covert as luthran to Hitler anger.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> True mostly it was done by muslim troops at the command of the grand mufti.
Click to expand...

What ever you say but facts can not change any way.
For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.


----------



## docmauser1

Rehmani said:


> How silly you are, what government you talking about dumb, can't you see, Palestinians are under occupation you moron evil think and thinks silly paid tout of jewish.


Freedom of occupation palistanians have. Free will palistinins choose occupation.


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then what about those Palestinian who's country Jew occupied with the help of the super powers, Israelis killed them in millions and force to live into camps. What you expect to some one in this situation like palestinians are, do you think Palestinian should love invaders.
> 
> 
> 
> *Millions*?
> 
> Really?
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> Time to step away from the hooka, son... smokin' that camel shit is rotting your brain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> look jew have to accept the facts that they can not beat the numbers, jew claim that German killed 6 millions jew is correct and if Muslim claim that jew killed millions Muslims wrong, this the reason I am saying that jew have give this silly idea that they are special race and masaya is coming. Please free your self from your master or elders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean facts and figures like 10 million innocents mass murdered by muslims in the last 66 years, the 100 years before that it was 30 million plus. These are islams own figures that they have written down. So stick those facts in your pipe bomb and smoke them
Click to expand...

phonel you full of lie, silly paid tout, don't you feel shame earning on people suffering you dumb.
For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> 
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right! By the hundred thousands...When the time comes they'll return the favor...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time for you to read the Geneva conventions and see what they say about the Palestinians using civilian areas to wage war from
Click to expand...

What ever you say, every know you on this forum that you are full of rabbis paid tout.
For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.


----------



## Rehmani

Vigilante said:


>


It is exactly suite to jews as I am saying that why Jews population not growing because jew spreading around in different nation as virus or SPY to destroy those country prosperity and increase jews monopoly.
For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.


----------



## Rehmani

docmauser1 said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> How silly you are, what government you talking about dumb, can't you see, Palestinians are under occupation you moron evil think and thinks silly paid tout of jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom of occupation palistanians have. Free will palistinins choose occupation.
Click to expand...

No there is no free will, for example if some one invade your home and you are in side, will you accept it?

For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.


----------



## Hossfly

Rehmani said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> How silly you are, what government you talking about dumb, can't you see, Palestinians are under occupation you moron evil think and thinks silly paid tout of jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom of occupation palistanians have. Free will palistinins choose occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No there is no free will, for example if some one invade your home and you are in side, will you accept it?
> 
> For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.
Click to expand...

Then why did you marry a Jewess?


----------



## Phoenall

Penelope said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> We Christians, worldwide, have no favorites between Muslims and Jews.  Good Christians consider both Muslims and Jews human beings that should convert to Christianity, but we hold no hate for either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are many roads in life, but only one destination.
> What religion you are is of little importance, your actions and words for your fellow man is what you will be judge by.
> Don't talk cr@p, don't spread lies, don't breed hate, don't incite violence, don't harm others.
> Golden rule has been taught by every major religion in some form.  Bitching and fighting does not help.  Talking and finding some compromise, letting others live their own lives will go a long way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The biggest challenge to compromise and peace are the Zionist myths.  And, after many years of study by many scholars, Jewish and otherwise, it has been proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that almost everything about Israel's creation is a myth.
> 
> Until the Jews acknowledge that Israel was created at the expense of hundreds of thousands of non-Jews and acknowledge that they had no inherent right to dispossess those people, there will not be any compromise.  After all, if the myths were true, among them, the Jews arrived in an empty land, Palestine was teeming with Jews, there were no Christians or Muslims in Palestine, Palestinians were invented in 1967, Palestinians came from Egypt in the 20th century, the Palestinians left willingly, the Arab states attacked to force the Jews into the sea, etc., why should they compromise.
> 
> These myths are promulgated daily here in this forum as if they were fact, although they have been thoroughly debunked. Even when presented the facts in black and white from the most neutral sources possible (Government and International Organization archives), your friends deflect, deny and respond with the same old propaganda lifted from propaganda sites.
> 
> If the Jews would acknowledge that they brought great harm on hundreds of thousands of people (and continue to do so) there might be some chance of compromise and peace, but somehow I don't that will ever happen and unfortunately,  it will be a demographic struggle to the end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you seriously expect to play "my list is longer than your list" about the history of jews?
> Everything factual you don't want to believe is a myth to you.  A ton of evidence and studies, you intentionally ignore.
> You have been debunked on every topic but you still cling to the old racist rhetoric and lies used by nazis and muslims for more than a century.  Lie proven in courts around the world but are regurgitated as absolute facts by hatemongers.
> You really should take a class in rational thinking and logic.
> You make accusation, cut down people's evidence while offering only propaganda and your bias suppositions.  You attack but offer only misinformation and disproven sites and figures.
> Find something fresh or people will just tune you out.
> Bring reasonable suggestions and possible solutions instead of just hate.
> Seek to know and treat others as equals instead of condemn them as the lowest slime.
> You have become very sad and tired.  Go for a walk and get a life.  It might bring you a new perspective.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here , 9 11 Missing Links  watch the movie.
Click to expand...





 How about you stop posting ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA and CONSPIRAVY THEORIES and start asking people on the know of such matters why it cant have been blown up or that the Jews did it.

 Just shows that you are a BRAINWASHED JEW HATING NAZI WHITE SUPREMACIST CONVERT TO ISLAM.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> We Christians, worldwide, have no favorites between Muslims and Jews.  Good Christians consider both Muslims and Jews human beings that should convert to Christianity, but we hold no hate for either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are many roads in life, but only one destination.
> What religion you are is of little importance, your actions and words for your fellow man is what you will be judge by.
> Don't talk cr@p, don't spread lies, don't breed hate, don't incite violence, don't harm others.
> Golden rule has been taught by every major religion in some form.  Bitching and fighting does not help.  Talking and finding some compromise, letting others live their own lives will go a long way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The biggest challenge to compromise and peace are the Zionist myths.  And, after many years of study by many scholars, Jewish and otherwise, it has been proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that almost everything about Israel's creation is a myth.
> 
> Until the Jews acknowledge that Israel was created at the expense of hundreds of thousands of non-Jews and acknowledge that they had no inherent right to dispossess those people, there will not be any compromise.  After all, if the myths were true, among them, the Jews arrived in an empty land, Palestine was teeming with Jews, there were no Christians or Muslims in Palestine, Palestinians were invented in 1967, Palestinians came from Egypt in the 20th century, the Palestinians left willingly, the Arab states attacked to force the Jews into the sea, etc., why should they compromise.
> 
> These myths are promulgated daily here in this forum as if they were fact, although they have been thoroughly debunked. Even when presented the facts in black and white from the most neutral sources possible (Government and International Organization archives), your friends deflect, deny and respond with the same old propaganda lifted from propaganda sites.
> 
> If the Jews would acknowledge that they brought great harm on hundreds of thousands of people (and continue to do so) there might be some chance of compromise and peace, but somehow I don't that will ever happen and unfortunately,  it will be a demographic struggle to the end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you seriously expect to play "my list is longer than your list" about the history of jews?
> Everything factual you don't want to believe is a myth to you.  A ton of evidence and studies, you intentionally ignore.
> You have been debunked on every topic but you still cling to the old racist rhetoric and lies used by nazis and muslims for more than a century.  Lie proven in courts around the world but are regurgitated as absolute facts by hatemongers.
> You really should take a class in rational thinking and logic.
> You make accusation, cut down people's evidence while offering only propaganda and your bias suppositions.  You attack but offer only misinformation and disproven sites and figures.
> Find something fresh or people will just tune you out.
> Bring reasonable suggestions and possible solutions instead of just hate.
> Seek to know and treat others as equals instead of condemn them as the lowest slime.
> You have become very sad and tired.  Go for a walk and get a life.  It might bring you a new perspective.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I  post documents from archives that are official reports of the administrators of the Mandate.  No suppositions, no bias, just facts. There is no hate, just the recognition of the facts.
> 
> But my point is made.  You will only believe the Zionist myths and reject the facts as reported by the people, third parties, who were responsible for reporting facts to the LoN or the UN as the Mandatory.
> 
> If you (and the rest of the Jews in Israel)  believe the myths as truths, then there can be no compromise on the Jew's part.
> 
> By the way melodrama doesn't change the facts.
Click to expand...




 No you post LIES and ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA which is why you now miss out table one because it does not show what you believe. Every day your posts are taken apart and their content held up to scrutiny and every day you are shown to be a complete idiot


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Serbia tried to expel the Muslims from Kosovo.  It didn't go too well for them.





 If you look at the proper history of the Former Yugoslavia it was the illegal immigrant muslims that tried to expel the Serbs from Yugoslavia in one of their land grabs. The UN and the USA now know they took the wrong side and in future will side against the muslims.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Don't talk cr@p, don't spread lies, don't breed hate, don't incite violence, don't harm others. Golden rule has been taught by every major religion in some form.  Bitching and fighting does not help.  Talking and finding some compromise, letting others live their own lives will go a long way.
> 
> 
> 
> And when the *Sacred Texts* of _one_ religion in the mix are absolutely saturated with encouragements and permissions to wage war upon and to commit violence against Unbelievers, going so far as to promise scores of virginal beauties
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Old Testament and the permissions to wage war and to commit violence against Gentiles/Goyim?
Click to expand...





 Which is not followed by either the Jews or the Christians, and if you were a Christian you would know that these sections were removed as commands during various synods.


----------



## Phoenall

Rehmani said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> How silly you are, what government you talking about dumb, can't you see, Palestinians are under occupation you moron evil think and thinks silly paid tout of jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom of occupation palistanians have. Free will palistinins choose occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No there is no free will, for example if some one invade your home and you are in side, will you accept it?
> 
> For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.
Click to expand...



The Palestinians exercised free will when they declared independence in 1988, and they were under occupation at the time. So this destroys your whole POV in regards to Palestinian rights.


----------



## Penelope

Rehmani said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> look jew have to accept the facts that they can not beat the numbers, jew claim that German killed 6 millions jew is correct and if Muslim claim that jew killed millions Muslims wrong, this the reason I am saying that jew have give this silly idea that they are special race and masaya is coming. Please free your self from your master or elders.
> 
> 
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then German killed jews may be in thousands not million.
> I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and maeaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations.
Click to expand...



If you go into your Profile and see where it says signature, you can write the above there once and it will be in every post. If your like me I get tired of typing.


----------



## pbel

Phoenall said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> We Christians, worldwide, have no favorites between Muslims and Jews.  Good Christians consider both Muslims and Jews human beings that should convert to Christianity, but we hold no hate for either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are many roads in life, but only one destination.
> What religion you are is of little importance, your actions and words for your fellow man is what you will be judge by.
> Don't talk cr@p, don't spread lies, don't breed hate, don't incite violence, don't harm others.
> Golden rule has been taught by every major religion in some form.  Bitching and fighting does not help.  Talking and finding some compromise, letting others live their own lives will go a long way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The biggest challenge to compromise and peace are the Zionist myths.  And, after many years of study by many scholars, Jewish and otherwise, it has been proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that almost everything about Israel's creation is a myth.
> 
> Until the Jews acknowledge that Israel was created at the expense of hundreds of thousands of non-Jews and acknowledge that they had no inherent right to dispossess those people, there will not be any compromise.  After all, if the myths were true, among them, the Jews arrived in an empty land, Palestine was teeming with Jews, there were no Christians or Muslims in Palestine, Palestinians were invented in 1967, Palestinians came from Egypt in the 20th century, the Palestinians left willingly, the Arab states attacked to force the Jews into the sea, etc., why should they compromise.
> 
> These myths are promulgated daily here in this forum as if they were fact, although they have been thoroughly debunked. Even when presented the facts in black and white from the most neutral sources possible (Government and International Organization archives), your friends deflect, deny and respond with the same old propaganda lifted from propaganda sites.
> 
> If the Jews would acknowledge that they brought great harm on hundreds of thousands of people (and continue to do so) there might be some chance of compromise and peace, but somehow I don't that will ever happen and unfortunately,  it will be a demographic struggle to the end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you seriously expect to play "my list is longer than your list" about the history of jews?
> Everything factual you don't want to believe is a myth to you.  A ton of evidence and studies, you intentionally ignore.
> You have been debunked on every topic but you still cling to the old racist rhetoric and lies used by nazis and muslims for more than a century.  Lie proven in courts around the world but are regurgitated as absolute facts by hatemongers.
> You really should take a class in rational thinking and logic.
> You make accusation, cut down people's evidence while offering only propaganda and your bias suppositions.  You attack but offer only misinformation and disproven sites and figures.
> Find something fresh or people will just tune you out.
> Bring reasonable suggestions and possible solutions instead of just hate.
> Seek to know and treat others as equals instead of condemn them as the lowest slime.
> You have become very sad and tired.  Go for a walk and get a life.  It might bring you a new perspective.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here , 9 11 Missing Links  watch the movie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about you stop posting ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA and CONSPIRAVY THEORIES and start asking people on the know of such matters why it cant have been blown up or that the Jews did it.
> 
> Just shows that you are a BRAINWASHED JEW HATING NAZI WHITE SUPREMACIST CONVERT TO ISLAM.
Click to expand...

People like you who daily express ZioNazism have helped de-legitimize Israel's existence even in your-own country of Great Britain. It really is laughable to see a Loony-Toon like you posting...

When are you going to post your Certificate of Sanity like you promised?


----------



## pbel

Phoenall said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> 
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right! By the hundred thousands...When the time comes they'll return the favor...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time for you to read the Geneva conventions and see what they say about the Palestinians using civilian areas to wage war from
Click to expand...

Why don't you join the cowardly IDF who are afraid to fight like real soldiers and go into hand to hand combat and take out the militants?

No you bomb from the sky terrorizing like the pussies that you are!


----------



## Daniyel

pbel said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right! By the hundred thousands...When the time comes they'll return the favor...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time for you to read the Geneva conventions and see what they say about the Palestinians using civilian areas to wage war from
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why don't you join the cowardly IDF who are afraid to fight like real soldiers and go into hand to hand combat and take out the militants?
> 
> No you bomb from the sky terrorizing like the pussies that you are!
Click to expand...

Bold words, do you realize its the screen you're actually talking to?


----------



## pbel

Daniyel said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right! By the hundred thousands...When the time comes they'll return the favor...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time for you to read the Geneva conventions and see what they say about the Palestinians using civilian areas to wage war from
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why don't you join the cowardly IDF who are afraid to fight like real soldiers and go into hand to hand combat and take out the militants?
> 
> No you bomb from the sky terrorizing like the pussies that you are!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bold words, do you realize its the screen you're actually talking to?
Click to expand...

Well you answered IDF baby killer!!!


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right! By the hundred thousands...When the time comes they'll return the favor...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time for you to read the Geneva conventions and see what they say about the Palestinians using civilian areas to wage war from
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why don't you join the cowardly IDF who are afraid to fight like real soldiers and go into hand to hand combat and take out the militants?
> 
> No you bomb from the sky terrorizing like the pussies that you are!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bold words, do you realize its the screen you're actually talking to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well you answered IDF baby killer!!!
Click to expand...

Oh, dearie-me, Daniyel, I don't think our friend 'pbel' thinks much of your service with the Israeli Defense Force.

He-she-it doesn't have anything constructive to say, about the Geneva Conventions, when applying them to Hamas and Fatah violations, concerning the routine and large-scale embedding of war-assets amongst civilian populations and residential neighborhoods and schools and hospitals and mosques, etc., but we can always count on "it" for a good laugh, when it emotionally and comically vents its spleen, cursing and denigrating and insulting its colleagues here on this board system.

That's a common failing amongst Hamas propaganda shills and Radical-Militant Muslim apologists and fifth columnists; perhaps that's what we're looking at here, but, I don't know with any degree of certainty.

Meanwhile, you are correct to point-out that Hamas and their other Palestinian and foreign militia and volunteer units bring most Palestinian civilian casualties down upon their own heads, through their cowardly, despicable practice of metaphorically hiding behind the skirts of their women and children, when they embed war-assets (rocket launchers, operations centers, barracks, staging areas, arms and munitions caches, etc.) within or in impractically close proximity to the kind of places that the Geneva Conventions so clearly forbid.

At that point, of course, such civilian populations lose the protections of the Geneva Conventions, with respect to Israeli bombardment and assault, and the Israelis are then free and clear to take-out those war-assets, as part of legitimate targeting operations.

Hamas is responsible for the vast majority of civilian collateral casualties in any of the Gaza Wars or incursions or sorties, since they assumed power in the Gaza Strip.


----------



## pbel

Kondor3 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right! By the hundred thousands...When the time comes they'll return the favor...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time for you to read the Geneva conventions and see what they say about the Palestinians using civilian areas to wage war from
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why don't you join the cowardly IDF who are afraid to fight like real soldiers and go into hand to hand combat and take out the militants?
> 
> No you bomb from the sky terrorizing like the pussies that you are!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bold words, do you realize its the screen you're actually talking to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well you answered IDF baby killer!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, dearie-me, Daniyel, I don't think our friend 'pbel' thinks much of your service with the Israeli Defense Force.
> 
> He-she-it doesn't have anything constructive to say, about the Geneva conventions, when applying them to Hamas and Fatah violations, concerning the routine and large-scale embedding of war-assets amongst civilian populations and residential neighborhoods and schools and hospitals and mosques, etc., but we can always count on "it" for a good laugh, when it vents its spleen, cursing and denigrating and insulting its colleagues here on this board system.
> 
> That's a common failing amongst Hamas propaganda shills and Radical-Militant Muslim apologists and fifth columnists; perhaps that's what we're looking at here, but, I don't know with any degree of certainty.
> 
> Meanwhile, you are correct to point-out that Hamas and their other Palestinian and foreign militia and volunteer units bring most Palestinian civilian casualties down upon their own heads, through their cowardly, despicable practice of metaphorically hiding behind the skirts of their women and children, when they embed war-assets (rocket launchers, operations centers, barracks, staging areas, arms and munitions caches, etc.) within or in impractically close proximity to the kind of places that the Geneva Conventions so clearly forbid.
> 
> At that point, of course, such civilian populations lose the protections of the Geneva Conventions, with respect to Israeli bombardment and assault.
> 
> Hamas is responsible for the vast majority of civilian collateral casualties in any of the Gaza Wars or incursions or sorties, since they assumed power in the Gaza Strip.
Click to expand...

Careful IDF ass-licker, the whole world including the USA has condemned the IDF atrocities...Your Kondor toilet paper brand is selling very well, I hear...We'll save you a roll to wipe your mouth!


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> ..._Careful IDF ass-licker, the whole world including the USA has condemned the IDF atrocities_...


See, Daniyel, our friend "pbel" may be an _Equal Opportunity Tourrettes Syndrome_ spleen-venter - it's not just _you_. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Having been bitch-slapped so frequently, by so many pro-Israeli posters, and even by a great many neutral and objective ones, and having been laughed-at so often by those whom he-she-it attempts to insult, its mental condition may have deteriorated to the point where even after a 'vacation' from the forum for a few days, the first words out of its mouth are bitter invective and insult and derogatory commentary, rather than anything constructive which contributes anything substantive to the conversation. We may be looking at a degenerative condition here. Difficult to say.



> ..._Your Kondor toilet paper brand is selling very well, I hear...We'll save you a roll to wipe your mouth!_


What toilet paper would _that_ be, miscreant? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







As has so often been the case in recent months, you make no sense. Perhaps you need a longer break away from the IP forum?

Do you have anything substantive and meaningful to add to the conversation, or are you just here to troll, harass, and attempt (and fail !) to silence the voice of opposition to your own agenda?

Care to address Daniyel's (quite correct) observation that Hamas et al routinely violate the Geneva Conventions by recklessly endangering their own civilian populations through their placement of war-assets in close proximity to or amongst their civilians - thereby exposing those civilians to legitimate military targeting operations?


----------



## pbel

Kondor3 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..._Careful IDF ass-licker, the whole world including the USA has condemned the IDF atrocities_...
> 
> 
> 
> See, Daniyel, our friend "pbel" is an _Equal Opportunity Tourrettes Syndrome_ spleen-venter - it's not just _you_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having been bitch-slapped so frequently, by so many pro-Israeli posters, and even by a great many neutral and objective ones, and having been laughed-at so often by those whom he-she-it attempts to insult, its mental condition may have deteriorated to the point where even after a 'vacation' from the forum for a few days, the first words out of its mouth are bitter invective and insult and derogatory commentary, rather than anything constructive which contributes anything substantive to the conversation. We may be looking at a degenerative condition here. Difficult to say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..._Your Kondor toilet paper brand is selling very well, I hear...We'll save you a roll to wipe your mouth!_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What toilet paper would _that_ be, miscreant?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As has so often been the case in recent months, you make no sense. Perhaps you need a longer break away from the IP forum?
> 
> Do you have anything substantive and meaningful to add to the conversation, or are you just here to troll, harass, and attempt to silence the voice of opposition to your own agenda?
Click to expand...

Sure, your racism of pushing to maim and expel Palestinian from their homeland makes you one of the most disgusting posters on these boards.

As for your toilet paper brand, here is the roll I saved for you!


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> ...Sure, your racism of pushing to maim and expel Palestinian from their homeland makes you one of the most disgusting posters on these boards....


The Palestinians (nor even the Jews, for that matter) are not a 'race' - therefore, any suggestions regarding their fate or disposition are not 'racial' in nature.

Good luck in finding a single shred of evidence throughout my entire posting history in which I suggest that Palestinians should be maimed or killed without prior provocation (without them first attacking the Israelis or other Jews).

It doesn't exist - it's a lie - but that's never stopped you in the past.

I do, indeed, believe that the removal of the remaining Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza, and expelling them into Jordan and Lebanon, is the ultimate (and only remaining untried) answer to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, akin to the massive Expulsions and Forcing-Outs of Jews from many Muslim countries in the 1948-1975 timeframe. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. The Israelis have the muscle to do it, and there will be nobody to stop them, if they decide to do that. But that's up to them, not me.

Being called 'disgusting' by you - an obvious Palestinian propaganda shill - is high praise indeed... I am content.


----------



## Daniyel

Kondor don't waste time over Pbel, no point talking to him.


----------



## Kondor3

Daniyel said:


> Kondor don't waste time over Pbel, no point talking to him.


There was a time when that was not true, but, then came the behavioral changes, and... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... rather sad, actually. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




But we digress.

On with the show.

Just to recap, I think you were right to bring up large-scale violations of the Geneva Conventions by Hamas during this most recent Gaza War (II).


----------



## montelatici

Kondor3 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Sure, your racism of pushing to maim and expel Palestinian from their homeland makes you one of the most disgusting posters on these boards....
> 
> 
> 
> 6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> Good luck in finding a single shred of evidence throughout my entire posting history in which I suggest that Palestinians should be maimed or killed without prior provocation (without them first attacking the Israelis or other Jews).
> 
> It doesn't exist - it's a lie - but that's never stopped you in the past.
> 
> I do, indeed, believe that the removal of the remaining Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza, and expelling them into Jordan and Lebanon, is the ultimate (and only remaining untried) answer to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, akin to the massive Expulsions and Forcing-Outs of Jews from many Muslim countries in the 1948-1975 timeframe. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. The Israelis have the muscle to do it, and there will be nobody to stop them, if they decide to do that. But that's up to them, not me.
> 
> Being called 'disgusting' by you - an obvious Palestinian propaganda shill - is high praise indeed... I am content.
Click to expand...




Kondor3 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Sure, your racism of pushing to maim and expel Palestinian from their homeland makes you one of the most disgusting posters on these boards....
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians (nor even the Jews, for that matter) are not a 'race' - therefore, any suggestions regarding their fate or disposition are not 'racial' in nature.
> 
> Good luck in finding a single shred of evidence throughout my entire posting history in which I suggest that Palestinians should be maimed or killed without prior provocation (without them first attacking the Israelis or other Jews).
> 
> It doesn't exist - it's a lie - but that's never stopped you in the past.
> 
> I do, indeed, believe that the removal of the remaining Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza, and expelling them into Jordan and Lebanon, is the ultimate (and only remaining untried) answer to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, akin to the massive Expulsions and Forcing-Outs of Jews from many Muslim countries in the 1948-1975 timeframe. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. The Israelis have the muscle to do it, and there will be nobody to stop them, if they decide to do that. But that's up to them, not me.
> 
> Being called 'disgusting' by you - an obvious Palestinian propaganda shill - is high praise indeed... I am content.
Click to expand...


"The Palestinians (nor even the Jews, for that matter) are not a 'race' - therefore, any suggestions regarding their fate or disposition are not 'racial' in nature."

You need to update your definition of racism

"discriminatory behaviors and beliefs based on cultural, national, ethnic, caste, or religious stereotypes."


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Sure, your racism of pushing to maim and expel Palestinian from their homeland makes you one of the most disgusting posters on these boards....
> 
> 
> 
> 6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> Good luck in finding a single shred of evidence throughout my entire posting history in which I suggest that Palestinians should be maimed or killed without prior provocation (without them first attacking the Israelis or other Jews).
> 
> It doesn't exist - it's a lie - but that's never stopped you in the past.
> 
> I do, indeed, believe that the removal of the remaining Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza, and expelling them into Jordan and Lebanon, is the ultimate (and only remaining untried) answer to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, akin to the massive Expulsions and Forcing-Outs of Jews from many Muslim countries in the 1948-1975 timeframe. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. The Israelis have the muscle to do it, and there will be nobody to stop them, if they decide to do that. But that's up to them, not me.
> 
> Being called 'disgusting' by you - an obvious Palestinian propaganda shill - is high praise indeed... I am content.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Sure, your racism of pushing to maim and expel Palestinian from their homeland makes you one of the most disgusting posters on these boards....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians (nor even the Jews, for that matter) are not a 'race' - therefore, any suggestions regarding their fate or disposition are not 'racial' in nature.
> 
> Good luck in finding a single shred of evidence throughout my entire posting history in which I suggest that Palestinians should be maimed or killed without prior provocation (without them first attacking the Israelis or other Jews).
> 
> It doesn't exist - it's a lie - but that's never stopped you in the past.
> 
> I do, indeed, believe that the removal of the remaining Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza, and expelling them into Jordan and Lebanon, is the ultimate (and only remaining untried) answer to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, akin to the massive Expulsions and Forcing-Outs of Jews from many Muslim countries in the 1948-1975 timeframe. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. The Israelis have the muscle to do it, and there will be nobody to stop them, if they decide to do that. But that's up to them, not me.
> 
> Being called 'disgusting' by you - an obvious Palestinian propaganda shill - is high praise indeed... I am content.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "The Palestinians (nor even the Jews, for that matter) are not a 'race' - therefore, any suggestions regarding their fate or disposition are not 'racial' in nature."
> 
> You need to update your definition of racism
> 
> "discriminatory behaviors and beliefs based on cultural, national, ethnic, caste, or religious stereotypes."
Click to expand...

Neither the Oxford Dictionary ( racism definition of racism in Oxford dictionary American English US  )...

Nor the Merriam-Webster Dictionary ( Racism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary )

...support that supposed extension of the definition.

I'll stick with the conventional and widely-held definition, thank you.


----------



## toastman

Kondor3 said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor don't waste time over Pbel, no point talking to him.
> 
> 
> 
> There was a time when that was not true, but, then came the behavioral changes, and...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... rather sad, actually.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But we digress.
> 
> On with the show.
> 
> Just to recap, I think you were right to bring up large-scale violations of the Geneva Conventions by Hamas during this most recent Gaza War (II).
Click to expand...


I also wonder what happened to Pbel.


----------



## pbel

Kondor3 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Sure, your racism of pushing to maim and expel Palestinian from their homeland makes you one of the most disgusting posters on these boards....
> 
> 
> 
> 6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> Good luck in finding a single shred of evidence throughout my entire posting history in which I suggest that Palestinians should be maimed or killed without prior provocation (without them first attacking the Israelis or other Jews).
> 
> It doesn't exist - it's a lie - but that's never stopped you in the past.
> 
> I do, indeed, believe that the removal of the remaining Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza, and expelling them into Jordan and Lebanon, is the ultimate (and only remaining untried) answer to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, akin to the massive Expulsions and Forcing-Outs of Jews from many Muslim countries in the 1948-1975 timeframe. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. The Israelis have the muscle to do it, and there will be nobody to stop them, if they decide to do that. But that's up to them, not me.
> 
> Being called 'disgusting' by you - an obvious Palestinian propaganda shill - is high praise indeed... I am content.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Sure, your racism of pushing to maim and expel Palestinian from their homeland makes you one of the most disgusting posters on these boards....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians (nor even the Jews, for that matter) are not a 'race' - therefore, any suggestions regarding their fate or disposition are not 'racial' in nature.
> 
> Good luck in finding a single shred of evidence throughout my entire posting history in which I suggest that Palestinians should be maimed or killed without prior provocation (without them first attacking the Israelis or other Jews).
> 
> It doesn't exist - it's a lie - but that's never stopped you in the past.
> 
> I do, indeed, believe that the removal of the remaining Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza, and expelling them into Jordan and Lebanon, is the ultimate (and only remaining untried) answer to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, akin to the massive Expulsions and Forcing-Outs of Jews from many Muslim countries in the 1948-1975 timeframe. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. The Israelis have the muscle to do it, and there will be nobody to stop them, if they decide to do that. But that's up to them, not me.
> 
> Being called 'disgusting' by you - an obvious Palestinian propaganda shill - is high praise indeed... I am content.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "The Palestinians (nor even the Jews, for that matter) are not a 'race' - therefore, any suggestions regarding their fate or disposition are not 'racial' in nature."
> 
> You need to update your definition of racism
> 
> "discriminatory behaviors and beliefs based on cultural, national, ethnic, caste, or religious stereotypes."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither the Oxford Dictionary ( racism definition of racism in Oxford dictionary American English US  )...
> 
> Nor the Merriam-Webster Dictionary ( Racism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary )
> 
> ...support that supposed extension of the definition.
> 
> I'll stick with the conventional and widely-held definition, thank you.
Click to expand...


Thanks for missing me Toast, and I do apologized for my extraordinary dislike for Kondor who supports the expulsions of human beings from their ancestral homes for eons...

Think about your history as a Jew, and being the scapegoats of a hundred thirty nine expulsions just for trying to live somewhere anywhere in peace?

It hasn't been pretty and the Europeans and others should feel ashamed for having any part of it, the Palestinians are now the scapegoats and we should all support a two state solution and a lasting peace and stop the killing on both sides...

That's all I have to say for now, and I'll try harder to restrain my Sicilian Temper.

Peace and I'll be back later...


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Sure, your racism of pushing to maim and expel Palestinian from their homeland makes you one of the most disgusting posters on these boards....
> 
> 
> 
> 6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> Good luck in finding a single shred of evidence throughout my entire posting history in which I suggest that Palestinians should be maimed or killed without prior provocation (without them first attacking the Israelis or other Jews).
> 
> It doesn't exist - it's a lie - but that's never stopped you in the past.
> 
> I do, indeed, believe that the removal of the remaining Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza, and expelling them into Jordan and Lebanon, is the ultimate (and only remaining untried) answer to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, akin to the massive Expulsions and Forcing-Outs of Jews from many Muslim countries in the 1948-1975 timeframe. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. The Israelis have the muscle to do it, and there will be nobody to stop them, if they decide to do that. But that's up to them, not me.
> 
> Being called 'disgusting' by you - an obvious Palestinian propaganda shill - is high praise indeed... I am content.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Sure, your racism of pushing to maim and expel Palestinian from their homeland makes you one of the most disgusting posters on these boards....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians (nor even the Jews, for that matter) are not a 'race' - therefore, any suggestions regarding their fate or disposition are not 'racial' in nature.
> 
> Good luck in finding a single shred of evidence throughout my entire posting history in which I suggest that Palestinians should be maimed or killed without prior provocation (without them first attacking the Israelis or other Jews).
> 
> It doesn't exist - it's a lie - but that's never stopped you in the past.
> 
> I do, indeed, believe that the removal of the remaining Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza, and expelling them into Jordan and Lebanon, is the ultimate (and only remaining untried) answer to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, akin to the massive Expulsions and Forcing-Outs of Jews from many Muslim countries in the 1948-1975 timeframe. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. The Israelis have the muscle to do it, and there will be nobody to stop them, if they decide to do that. But that's up to them, not me.
> 
> Being called 'disgusting' by you - an obvious Palestinian propaganda shill - is high praise indeed... I am content.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "The Palestinians (nor even the Jews, for that matter) are not a 'race' - therefore, any suggestions regarding their fate or disposition are not 'racial' in nature."
> 
> You need to update your definition of racism
> 
> "discriminatory behaviors and beliefs based on cultural, national, ethnic, caste, or religious stereotypes."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither the Oxford Dictionary ( racism definition of racism in Oxford dictionary American English US  )...
> 
> Nor the Merriam-Webster Dictionary ( Racism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary )
> 
> ...support that supposed extension of the definition.
> 
> I'll stick with the conventional and widely-held definition, thank you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for missing me Toast, and I do apologized for my extraordinary dislike for Kondor who supports the expulsions of human beings from their ancestral homes for eons...
> 
> Think about your history as a Jew, and being the scapegoats of a hundred thirty nine expulsions just for trying to live somewhere anywhere in peace?
> 
> It hasn't been pretty and the Europeans and others should feel ashamed for having any part of it, the Palestinians are now the scapegoats and we should all support a two state solution and a lasting peace and stop the killing on both sides...
> 
> That's all I have to say for now, and I'll try harder to restrain my Sicilian Temper.
> 
> Peace and I'll be back later...
Click to expand...

Awwwwwww... I'm crushed...






Come back when you've got something substantive to add to the conversation...


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro

The trolling going on in this thread needs to stop, otherwise it's going to be closed having run it course.  Thanks


----------



## Phoenall

pbel said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are many roads in life, but only one destination.
> What religion you are is of little importance, your actions and words for your fellow man is what you will be judge by.
> Don't talk cr@p, don't spread lies, don't breed hate, don't incite violence, don't harm others.
> Golden rule has been taught by every major religion in some form.  Bitching and fighting does not help.  Talking and finding some compromise, letting others live their own lives will go a long way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The biggest challenge to compromise and peace are the Zionist myths.  And, after many years of study by many scholars, Jewish and otherwise, it has been proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that almost everything about Israel's creation is a myth.
> 
> Until the Jews acknowledge that Israel was created at the expense of hundreds of thousands of non-Jews and acknowledge that they had no inherent right to dispossess those people, there will not be any compromise.  After all, if the myths were true, among them, the Jews arrived in an empty land, Palestine was teeming with Jews, there were no Christians or Muslims in Palestine, Palestinians were invented in 1967, Palestinians came from Egypt in the 20th century, the Palestinians left willingly, the Arab states attacked to force the Jews into the sea, etc., why should they compromise.
> 
> These myths are promulgated daily here in this forum as if they were fact, although they have been thoroughly debunked. Even when presented the facts in black and white from the most neutral sources possible (Government and International Organization archives), your friends deflect, deny and respond with the same old propaganda lifted from propaganda sites.
> 
> If the Jews would acknowledge that they brought great harm on hundreds of thousands of people (and continue to do so) there might be some chance of compromise and peace, but somehow I don't that will ever happen and unfortunately,  it will be a demographic struggle to the end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you seriously expect to play "my list is longer than your list" about the history of jews?
> Everything factual you don't want to believe is a myth to you.  A ton of evidence and studies, you intentionally ignore.
> You have been debunked on every topic but you still cling to the old racist rhetoric and lies used by nazis and muslims for more than a century.  Lie proven in courts around the world but are regurgitated as absolute facts by hatemongers.
> You really should take a class in rational thinking and logic.
> You make accusation, cut down people's evidence while offering only propaganda and your bias suppositions.  You attack but offer only misinformation and disproven sites and figures.
> Find something fresh or people will just tune you out.
> Bring reasonable suggestions and possible solutions instead of just hate.
> Seek to know and treat others as equals instead of condemn them as the lowest slime.
> You have become very sad and tired.  Go for a walk and get a life.  It might bring you a new perspective.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here , 9 11 Missing Links  watch the movie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about you stop posting ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA and CONSPIRAVY THEORIES and start asking people on the know of such matters why it cant have been blown up or that the Jews did it.
> 
> Just shows that you are a BRAINWASHED JEW HATING NAZI WHITE SUPREMACIST CONVERT TO ISLAM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> People like you who daily express ZioNazism have helped de-legitimize Israel's existence even in your-own country of Great Britain. It really is laughable to see a Loony-Toon like you posting...
> 
> When are you going to post your Certificate of Sanity like you promised?
Click to expand...




Now when did I promise that, or is this another of your LIES. I asked you to show yours and you just run away crying.

 Now back to topic , who would know best how steel would react under extreme heat and pressure. A conspiracy theorist or a steel maker who has to understand the properties of steel under all conditions. Try looking up the effects on steel at medium temperatures and what happens at the valence area in steel.


----------



## Phoenall

pbel said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right! By the hundred thousands...When the time comes they'll return the favor...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time for you to read the Geneva conventions and see what they say about the Palestinians using civilian areas to wage war from
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why don't you join the cowardly IDF who are afraid to fight like real soldiers and go into hand to hand combat and take out the militants?
> 
> No you bomb from the sky terrorizing like the pussies that you are!
Click to expand...





Don't want to do I seeing as I am not a Jew. But you being an ISLAMONAZI STOOGE should try joining hamas and learn to hide behind women and children while killing Israeli children


----------



## Phoenall

pbel said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right! By the hundred thousands...When the time comes they'll return the favor...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time for you to read the Geneva conventions and see what they say about the Palestinians using civilian areas to wage war from
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why don't you join the cowardly IDF who are afraid to fight like real soldiers and go into hand to hand combat and take out the militants?
> 
> No you bomb from the sky terrorizing like the pussies that you are!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bold words, do you realize its the screen you're actually talking to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well you answered IDF baby killer!!!
Click to expand...




  Under the terms of the Geneva conventions it is hamas that are deemed "baby killers" because of their breaches of the rules of war and Geneva conventions.


----------



## Phoenall

pbel said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Time for you to read the Geneva conventions and see what they say about the Palestinians using civilian areas to wage war from
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you join the cowardly IDF who are afraid to fight like real soldiers and go into hand to hand combat and take out the militants?
> 
> No you bomb from the sky terrorizing like the pussies that you are!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bold words, do you realize its the screen you're actually talking to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well you answered IDF baby killer!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, dearie-me, Daniyel, I don't think our friend 'pbel' thinks much of your service with the Israeli Defense Force.
> 
> He-she-it doesn't have anything constructive to say, about the Geneva conventions, when applying them to Hamas and Fatah violations, concerning the routine and large-scale embedding of war-assets amongst civilian populations and residential neighborhoods and schools and hospitals and mosques, etc., but we can always count on "it" for a good laugh, when it vents its spleen, cursing and denigrating and insulting its colleagues here on this board system.
> 
> That's a common failing amongst Hamas propaganda shills and Radical-Militant Muslim apologists and fifth columnists; perhaps that's what we're looking at here, but, I don't know with any degree of certainty.
> 
> Meanwhile, you are correct to point-out that Hamas and their other Palestinian and foreign militia and volunteer units bring most Palestinian civilian casualties down upon their own heads, through their cowardly, despicable practice of metaphorically hiding behind the skirts of their women and children, when they embed war-assets (rocket launchers, operations centers, barracks, staging areas, arms and munitions caches, etc.) within or in impractically close proximity to the kind of places that the Geneva Conventions so clearly forbid.
> 
> At that point, of course, such civilian populations lose the protections of the Geneva Conventions, with respect to Israeli bombardment and assault.
> 
> Hamas is responsible for the vast majority of civilian collateral casualties in any of the Gaza Wars or incursions or sorties, since they assumed power in the Gaza Strip.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Careful IDF ass-licker, the whole world including the USA has condemned the IDF atrocities...Your Kondor toilet paper brand is selling very well, I hear...We'll save you a roll to wipe your mouth!
Click to expand...




 Not seen it from any civilised nation as they all saw the evidence of hamas war crimes.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Sure, your racism of pushing to maim and expel Palestinian from their homeland makes you one of the most disgusting posters on these boards....
> 
> 
> 
> 6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> Natural
> increase631,272
> 
> 281,339
> 
> 349,933286,770
> 
> 25,168
> 
> 261,602302,294
> 
> 245,433
> 
> 56,86138,305
> 
> 10,414
> 
> 27,8913,903
> 
> 324
> 
> 3,579
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937
> 
> Good luck in finding a single shred of evidence throughout my entire posting history in which I suggest that Palestinians should be maimed or killed without prior provocation (without them first attacking the Israelis or other Jews).
> 
> It doesn't exist - it's a lie - but that's never stopped you in the past.
> 
> I do, indeed, believe that the removal of the remaining Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza, and expelling them into Jordan and Lebanon, is the ultimate (and only remaining untried) answer to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, akin to the massive Expulsions and Forcing-Outs of Jews from many Muslim countries in the 1948-1975 timeframe. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. The Israelis have the muscle to do it, and there will be nobody to stop them, if they decide to do that. But that's up to them, not me.
> 
> Being called 'disgusting' by you - an obvious Palestinian propaganda shill - is high praise indeed... I am content.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Sure, your racism of pushing to maim and expel Palestinian from their homeland makes you one of the most disgusting posters on these boards....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians (nor even the Jews, for that matter) are not a 'race' - therefore, any suggestions regarding their fate or disposition are not 'racial' in nature.
> 
> Good luck in finding a single shred of evidence throughout my entire posting history in which I suggest that Palestinians should be maimed or killed without prior provocation (without them first attacking the Israelis or other Jews).
> 
> It doesn't exist - it's a lie - but that's never stopped you in the past.
> 
> I do, indeed, believe that the removal of the remaining Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza, and expelling them into Jordan and Lebanon, is the ultimate (and only remaining untried) answer to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, akin to the massive Expulsions and Forcing-Outs of Jews from many Muslim countries in the 1948-1975 timeframe. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. The Israelis have the muscle to do it, and there will be nobody to stop them, if they decide to do that. But that's up to them, not me.
> 
> Being called 'disgusting' by you - an obvious Palestinian propaganda shill - is high praise indeed... I am content.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "The Palestinians (nor even the Jews, for that matter) are not a 'race' - therefore, any suggestions regarding their fate or disposition are not 'racial' in nature."
> 
> You need to update your definition of racism
> 
> "discriminatory behaviors and beliefs based on cultural, national, ethnic, caste, or religious stereotypes."
Click to expand...





 And which ISLAMONAZI source did that come from...................


----------



## pbel

Phoenall said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right! By the hundred thousands...When the time comes they'll return the favor...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time for you to read the Geneva conventions and see what they say about the Palestinians using civilian areas to wage war from
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why don't you join the cowardly IDF who are afraid to fight like real soldiers and go into hand to hand combat and take out the militants?
> 
> No you bomb from the sky terrorizing like the pussies that you are!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bold words, do you realize its the screen you're actually talking to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well you answered IDF baby killer!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Under the terms of the Geneva conventions it is hamas that are deemed "baby killers" because of their breaches of the rules of war and Geneva conventions.
Click to expand...

Seems to me that Israel's breeches of those convections are ten-fold vs. Hamas. By the way, I think Hamas is a bunch of idiots and fools for exposing their civilians to so much terror in return for sending rockets into Israeli civilian areas and wish Israel would go in with soldiers instead of bombings which just keep resetting the stage for the next war. Unfortunately the Israeli IDF breeds cowards.


----------



## aris2chat

Phoenall said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The biggest challenge to compromise and peace are the Zionist myths.  And, after many years of study by many scholars, Jewish and otherwise, it has been proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that almost everything about Israel's creation is a myth.
> 
> Until the Jews acknowledge that Israel was created at the expense of hundreds of thousands of non-Jews and acknowledge that they had no inherent right to dispossess those people, there will not be any compromise.  After all, if the myths were true, among them, the Jews arrived in an empty land, Palestine was teeming with Jews, there were no Christians or Muslims in Palestine, Palestinians were invented in 1967, Palestinians came from Egypt in the 20th century, the Palestinians left willingly, the Arab states attacked to force the Jews into the sea, etc., why should they compromise.
> 
> These myths are promulgated daily here in this forum as if they were fact, although they have been thoroughly debunked. Even when presented the facts in black and white from the most neutral sources possible (Government and International Organization archives), your friends deflect, deny and respond with the same old propaganda lifted from propaganda sites.
> 
> If the Jews would acknowledge that they brought great harm on hundreds of thousands of people (and continue to do so) there might be some chance of compromise and peace, but somehow I don't that will ever happen and unfortunately,  it will be a demographic struggle to the end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you seriously expect to play "my list is longer than your list" about the history of jews?
> Everything factual you don't want to believe is a myth to you.  A ton of evidence and studies, you intentionally ignore.
> You have been debunked on every topic but you still cling to the old racist rhetoric and lies used by nazis and muslims for more than a century.  Lie proven in courts around the world but are regurgitated as absolute facts by hatemongers.
> You really should take a class in rational thinking and logic.
> You make accusation, cut down people's evidence while offering only propaganda and your bias suppositions.  You attack but offer only misinformation and disproven sites and figures.
> Find something fresh or people will just tune you out.
> Bring reasonable suggestions and possible solutions instead of just hate.
> Seek to know and treat others as equals instead of condemn them as the lowest slime.
> You have become very sad and tired.  Go for a walk and get a life.  It might bring you a new perspective.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here , 9 11 Missing Links  watch the movie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about you stop posting ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA and CONSPIRAVY THEORIES and start asking people on the know of such matters why it cant have been blown up or that the Jews did it.
> 
> Just shows that you are a BRAINWASHED JEW HATING NAZI WHITE SUPREMACIST CONVERT TO ISLAM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> People like you who daily express ZioNazism have helped de-legitimize Israel's existence even in your-own country of Great Britain. It really is laughable to see a Loony-Toon like you posting...
> 
> When are you going to post your Certificate of Sanity like you promised?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now when did I promise that, or is this another of your LIES. I asked you to show yours and you just run away crying.
> 
> Now back to topic , who would know best how steel would react under extreme heat and pressure. A conspiracy theorist or a steel maker who has to understand the properties of steel under all conditions. Try looking up the effects on steel at medium temperatures and what happens at the valence area in steel.
Click to expand...


Steel does not have to melt, it just needs to reach a point where is weakens.  Like a chain, it is only as strong as it's weakest link.  One weakened faulty area and a chain reaction will occur.


----------



## Rehmani

Hossfly said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> How silly you are, what government you talking about dumb, can't you see, Palestinians are under occupation you moron evil think and thinks silly paid tout of jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom of occupation palistanians have. Free will palistinins choose occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No there is no free will, for example if some one invade your home and you are in side, will you accept it?
> 
> For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why did you marry a Jewess?
Click to expand...

As a Muslim, we can marry with Christian as well.


----------



## Rehmani

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> How silly you are, what government you talking about dumb, can't you see, Palestinians are under occupation you moron evil think and thinks silly paid tout of jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom of occupation palistanians have. Free will palistinins choose occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No there is no free will, for example if some one invade your home and you are in side, will you accept it?
> 
> *VIEW IN: CHINESE SIMPLE  /  JAPANESE  / KOREAN  / ARABIC / FRENCH  / GERMAN  / ITALIAN  / PORTUGUESE  / SPANISH  / RUSSIAN  / *
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
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> [/TBODY]
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
> *( Purchase of homes on / after approval of MM2H MALAYSIA VISA / MM2H is not a requirement ! Staying in  Malaysia after MM2H approval is not required you can come & leave Malaysia anytime ).*
> 
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> 
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians exercised free will when they declared independence in 1988, and they were under occupation at the time. So this destroys your whole POV in regards to Palestinian rights.
Click to expand...

No they did not declare in independent, actually Palestinian start freedom movement against jew's illegal invasion.



Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> How silly you are, what government you talking about dumb, can't you see, Palestinians are under occupation you moron evil think and thinks silly paid tout of jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom of occupation palistanians have. Free will palistinins choose occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No there is no free will, for example if some one invade your home and you are in side, will you accept it?
> 
> For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians exercised free will when they declared independence in 1988, and they were under occupation at the time. So this destroys your whole POV in regards to Palestinian rights.
Click to expand...


No, They did not declare independent, actually they start freedom movement against Jew's invasion.

For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Rehmani

pbel said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right! By the hundred thousands...When the time comes they'll return the favor...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time for you to read the Geneva conventions and see what they say about the Palestinians using civilian areas to wage war from
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why don't you join the cowardly IDF who are afraid to fight like real soldiers and go into hand to hand combat and take out the militants?
> 
> No you bomb from the sky terrorizing like the pussies that you are!
Click to expand...


For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Rehmani

Penelope said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Translation:
> 
> "_I falsely claimed that the Jews had killed millions of Muslims, and,when challenged on that claim, I could not substantiate it, and then chose, instead, to attempt to deflect and distract attention away from that failure, with some vagaries and sundry fluff._"
> 
> Epic fail.
> 
> Big surprise.
> 
> Not.
> 
> 
> 
> Well no one care about your surprise, world care about facts and figure, and world know that jew always alter the facts and figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But of course you're certain Israel killed Palestinians..hmmf..you little schmuck deserve zero credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israelis don't kill Palestinians, in the thousands?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then German killed jews may be in thousands not million.
> I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and maeaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If you go into your Profile and see where it says signature, you can write the above there once and it will be in every post. If your like me I get tired of typing.
Click to expand...


Thanks penelope, I edit my profile with these information.
For Jews Only: I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and since 3000 years has passed but masaya is not coming. Please get your self free from jew's elders, you are not their slaves. jew's elders using jew slave as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population is not growing in last 5000 years instead jew mixing in other nation as a spy, and dividing others in smaller tribes than jew's tribe so jews can establish their monopoly on others nation or tribes means jew's policy is divide and rule. Please, Please jewish give up this nonsense and complete the line of prophets after Moses PBUH by following prophets Jesus PBUH and Mohammad PBUH and please, please jews let the other nations enter into the religion of Abraham PBUH and help the world become peaceful under one Allah(God) instead.


----------



## docmauser1

Rehmani said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> How silly you are, what government you talking about dumb, can't you see, Palestinians are under occupation you moron evil think and thinks silly paid tout of jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom of occupation palistanians have. Free will palistinins choose occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No there is no free will, ...
Click to expand...

Of course, there is! It's freedom of occupation and palistanians are happy with their chosen occupation, of course.


Rehmani said:


> for example if some one invade your home and you are in side, will you accept it?


We aren't having a palistan cheerleader class to lap that "poor 'n robbed" palistanian rock 'n roll.


----------



## pbel

docmauser1 said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> How silly you are, what government you talking about dumb, can't you see, Palestinians are under occupation you moron evil think and thinks silly paid tout of jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom of occupation palistanians have. Free will palistinins choose occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No there is no free will, ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course, there is! It's freedom of occupation and palistanians are happy with their chosen occupation, of course.
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> for example if some one invade your home and you are in side, will you accept it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We aren't having a palistan cheerleader class to lap that "poor 'n robbed" palistanian rock 'n roll.
Click to expand...

????????????Speaking Jackass again of course...Gawd, I hope your not a real doctor...If your patients are psychos they may very well understand the drivel language of course!


----------



## Hossfly

Rehmani said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> How silly you are, what government you talking about dumb, can't you see, Palestinians are under occupation you moron evil think and thinks silly paid tout of jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom of occupation palistanians have. Free will palistinins choose occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No there is no free will, for example if some one invade your home and you are in side, will you accept it?
> 
> For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why did you marry a Jewess?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As a Muslim, we can marry with Christian as well.
Click to expand...




Rehmani said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> How silly you are, what government you talking about dumb, can't you see, Palestinians are under occupation you moron evil think and thinks silly paid tout of jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom of occupation palistanians have. Free will palistinins choose occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No there is no free will, for example if some one invade your home and you are in side, will you accept it?
> 
> For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why did you marry a Jewess?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As a Muslim, we can marry with Christian as well.
Click to expand...

If you can marry a Christian or a Jew, then of course since your religion is so tolerant, if the Christian or Jew wants to raise the child in her religion, you would have no problem with that.  Right?  That's why we see Hindus killed if they have the temerity to marry a Muslim.  I think the title of this thread should have been "The World is Sick of Muslim atrocities" given what is happening in huge amounts of land where innocents are constantly being murdered.


----------



## pbel

Hossfly said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> How silly you are, what government you talking about dumb, can't you see, Palestinians are under occupation you moron evil think and thinks silly paid tout of jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom of occupation palistanians have. Free will palistinins choose occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No there is no free will, for example if some one invade your home and you are in side, will you accept it?
> 
> For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why did you marry a Jewess?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As a Muslim, we can marry with Christian as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> How silly you are, what government you talking about dumb, can't you see, Palestinians are under occupation you moron evil think and thinks silly paid tout of jewish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Freedom of occupation palistanians have. Free will palistinins choose occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No there is no free will, for example if some one invade your home and you are in side, will you accept it?
> 
> For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why did you marry a Jewess?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As a Muslim, we can marry with Christian as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you can marry a Christian or a Jew, then of course since your religion is so tolerant, if the Christian or Jew wants to raise the child in her religion, you would have no problem with that.  Right?  That's why we see Hindus killed if they have the temerity to marry a Muslim.  I think the title of this thread should have been "The World is Sick of Muslim atrocities" given what is happening in huge amounts of land where innocents are constantly being murdered.
Click to expand...

Although I am a Deist/Unitarian, I'm beginning to believe that the practice of Religion is the root of all evil in this world which has caused so many deaths.


----------



## Hossfly

pbel said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom of occupation palistanians have. Free will palistinins choose occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> No there is no free will, for example if some one invade your home and you are in side, will you accept it?
> 
> For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why did you marry a Jewess?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As a Muslim, we can marry with Christian as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom of occupation palistanians have. Free will palistinins choose occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No there is no free will, for example if some one invade your home and you are in side, will you accept it?
> 
> For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why did you marry a Jewess?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As a Muslim, we can marry with Christian as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you can marry a Christian or a Jew, then of course since your religion is so tolerant, if the Christian or Jew wants to raise the child in her religion, you would have no problem with that.  Right?  That's why we see Hindus killed if they have the temerity to marry a Muslim.  I think the title of this thread should have been "The World is Sick of Muslim atrocities" given what is happening in huge amounts of land where innocents are constantly being murdered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Although I am a Deist/Unitarian, I'm beginning to believe that the practice of Religion is the root of all evil in this world which has caused so many deaths.
Click to expand...

Can you tell us what religion Mao and his gang were?


----------



## theliq

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> The trolling going on in this thread needs to stop, otherwise it's going to be closed having run it course.  Thanks



The trouble with uppity posts like this,is a form of restriction to comment.....what do you mean by TROLLING for example,I see little of it on USMB,if you are referring to opposing sides bantering including the odd abuse,so what!!!!!! I think you are over reacting completely in calling for a total ban....moreover often threads like this often brings up new and interesting debates as the thread moves forward......your assumption that (in your words Trolling) some how you imagine brings a thread to an early close is simply absured


----------



## pbel

Hossfly said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> No there is no free will, for example if some one invade your home and you are in side, will you accept it?
> 
> For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.
> 
> 
> 
> Then why did you marry a Jewess?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As a Muslim, we can marry with Christian as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> No there is no free will, for example if some one invade your home and you are in side, will you accept it?
> 
> For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why did you marry a Jewess?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As a Muslim, we can marry with Christian as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you can marry a Christian or a Jew, then of course since your religion is so tolerant, if the Christian or Jew wants to raise the child in her religion, you would have no problem with that.  Right?  That's why we see Hindus killed if they have the temerity to marry a Muslim.  I think the title of this thread should have been "The World is Sick of Muslim atrocities" given what is happening in huge amounts of land where innocents are constantly being murdered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Although I am a Deist/Unitarian, I'm beginning to believe that the practice of Religion is the root of all evil in this world which has caused so many deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you tell us what religion Mao and his gang were?
Click to expand...

 Confucianism although not a religion had a lot of rituals...Mao's atheism was a reaction against the opiate of the people which caused so much backwardness in China and still does so today.


----------



## Hossfly

pbel said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then why did you marry a Jewess?
> 
> 
> 
> As a Muslim, we can marry with Christian as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then why did you marry a Jewess?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As a Muslim, we can marry with Christian as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you can marry a Christian or a Jew, then of course since your religion is so tolerant, if the Christian or Jew wants to raise the child in her religion, you would have no problem with that.  Right?  That's why we see Hindus killed if they have the temerity to marry a Muslim.  I think the title of this thread should have been "The World is Sick of Muslim atrocities" given what is happening in huge amounts of land where innocents are constantly being murdered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Although I am a Deist/Unitarian, I'm beginning to believe that the practice of Religion is the root of all evil in this world which has caused so many deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you tell us what religion Mao and his gang were?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Confucianism although not a religion had a lot of rituals...Mao's atheism was a reaction against the opiate of the people which caused so much backwardness in China and still does so today.
Click to expand...

Actually Mao was a Communist so he really wasn't following any religion, and neither were those who were responsible for all the killings in Cambodia.  Regardless of the backwardness of China, they certainly are pulling in the bucks and buying prime property in America.  In fact, many Chinese are coming here and are buying multi-million dollar mansions that you nor I could ever afford.


----------



## pbel

Hossfly said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a Muslim, we can marry with Christian as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a Muslim, we can marry with Christian as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you can marry a Christian or a Jew, then of course since your religion is so tolerant, if the Christian or Jew wants to raise the child in her religion, you would have no problem with that.  Right?  That's why we see Hindus killed if they have the temerity to marry a Muslim.  I think the title of this thread should have been "The World is Sick of Muslim atrocities" given what is happening in huge amounts of land where innocents are constantly being murdered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Although I am a Deist/Unitarian, I'm beginning to believe that the practice of Religion is the root of all evil in this world which has caused so many deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you tell us what religion Mao and his gang were?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Confucianism although not a religion had a lot of rituals...Mao's atheism was a reaction against the opiate of the people which caused so much backwardness in China and still does so today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually Mao was a Communist so he really wasn't following any religion, and neither were those who were responsible for all the killings in Cambodia.  Regardless of the backwardness of China, they certainly are pulling in the bucks and buying prime property in America.  In fact, many Chinese are coming here and are buying multi-million dollar mansions that you nor I could ever afford.
Click to expand...

Yes, thank Deng who opened up China, he too was a Communist, with common sense.


----------



## Hossfly

theliq said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> The trolling going on in this thread needs to stop, otherwise it's going to be closed having run it course.  Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The trouble with uppity posts like this,is a form of restriction to comment.....what do you mean by TROLLING for example,I see little of it on USMB,if you are referring to opposing sides bantering including the odd abuse,so what!!!!!! I think you are over reacting completely in calling for a total ban....moreover often threads like this often brings up new and interesting debates as the thread moves forward......your assumption that (in your words Trolling) some how you imagine brings a thread to an early close is simply absured
Click to expand...

Steve, go sit in the corner and stay there till I say you can leave.


----------



## Baruch Menachem

However, the world is cool with islamic atrocities, such as perpetrated by boku haram, Isis, those jerks in Ottowa yesterday, etc etc etc way to often etc


----------



## Hossfly

pbel said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you can marry a Christian or a Jew, then of course since your religion is so tolerant, if the Christian or Jew wants to raise the child in her religion, you would have no problem with that.  Right?  That's why we see Hindus killed if they have the temerity to marry a Muslim.  I think the title of this thread should have been "The World is Sick of Muslim atrocities" given what is happening in huge amounts of land where innocents are constantly being murdered.
> 
> 
> 
> Although I am a Deist/Unitarian, I'm beginning to believe that the practice of Religion is the root of all evil in this world which has caused so many deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you tell us what religion Mao and his gang were?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Confucianism although not a religion had a lot of rituals...Mao's atheism was a reaction against the opiate of the people which caused so much backwardness in China and still does so today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually Mao was a Communist so he really wasn't following any religion, and neither were those who were responsible for all the killings in Cambodia.  Regardless of the backwardness of China, they certainly are pulling in the bucks and buying prime property in America.  In fact, many Chinese are coming here and are buying multi-million dollar mansions that you nor I could ever afford.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, thank Deng who opened up China, he too was a Communist, with common sense.
Click to expand...

It's also the same with people who happen to follow a religion or a belief, but have common sense about it.  Let's hope that China has the common sense to leave Hong Kong alone so the young people can have a democracy which is their wish.


----------



## theliq

Hossfly said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> How silly you are, what government you talking about dumb, can't you see, Palestinians are under occupation you moron evil think and thinks silly paid tout of jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom of occupation palistanians have. Free will palistinins choose occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No there is no free will, for example if some one invade your home and you are in side, will you accept it?
> 
> For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why did you marry a Jewess?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As a Muslim, we can marry with Christian as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> How silly you are, what government you talking about dumb, can't you see, Palestinians are under occupation you moron evil think and thinks silly paid tout of jewish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Freedom of occupation palistanians have. Free will palistinins choose occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No there is no free will, for example if some one invade your home and you are in side, will you accept it?
> 
> For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why did you marry a Jewess?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As a Muslim, we can marry with Christian as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you can marry a Christian or a Jew, then of course since your religion is so tolerant, if the Christian or Jew wants to raise the child in her religion, you would have no problem with that.  Right?  That's why we see Hindus killed if they have the temerity to marry a Muslim.  I think the title of this thread should have been "The World is Sick of Muslim atrocities" given what is happening in huge amounts of land where innocents are constantly being murdered.
Click to expand...



Good Morning Hoss,trust you are well...been away for a few days,steve


----------



## theliq

aris2chat said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you seriously expect to play "my list is longer than your list" about the history of jews?
> Everything factual you don't want to believe is a myth to you.  A ton of evidence and studies, you intentionally ignore.
> You have been debunked on every topic but you still cling to the old racist rhetoric and lies used by nazis and muslims for more than a century.  Lie proven in courts around the world but are regurgitated as absolute facts by hatemongers.
> You really should take a class in rational thinking and logic.
> You make accusation, cut down people's evidence while offering only propaganda and your bias suppositions.  You attack but offer only misinformation and disproven sites and figures.
> Find something fresh or people will just tune you out.
> Bring reasonable suggestions and possible solutions instead of just hate.
> Seek to know and treat others as equals instead of condemn them as the lowest slime.
> You have become very sad and tired.  Go for a walk and get a life.  It might bring you a new perspective.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here , 9 11 Missing Links  watch the movie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about you stop posting ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA and CONSPIRAVY THEORIES and start asking people on the know of such matters why it cant have been blown up or that the Jews did it.
> 
> Just shows that you are a BRAINWASHED JEW HATING NAZI WHITE SUPREMACIST CONVERT TO ISLAM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> People like you who daily express ZioNazism have helped de-legitimize Israel's existence even in your-own country of Great Britain. It really is laughable to see a Loony-Toon like you posting...
> 
> When are you going to post your Certificate of Sanity like you promised?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now when did I promise that, or is this another of your LIES. I asked you to show yours and you just run away crying.
> 
> Now back to topic , who would know best how steel would react under extreme heat and pressure. A conspiracy theorist or a steel maker who has to understand the properties of steel under all conditions. Try looking up the effects on steel at medium temperatures and what happens at the valence area in steel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Steel does not have to melt, it just needs to reach a point where is weakens.  Like a chain, it is only as strong as it's weakest link.  One weakened faulty area and a chain reaction will occur.
Click to expand...


But can be hardened or should I say stronger by heating,then quenching in water(Hardening & Tempering) just sayin  steve


----------



## theliq

Hossfly said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Although I am a Deist/Unitarian, I'm beginning to believe that the practice of Religion is the root of all evil in this world which has caused so many deaths.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you tell us what religion Mao and his gang were?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Confucianism although not a religion had a lot of rituals...Mao's atheism was a reaction against the opiate of the people which caused so much backwardness in China and still does so today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually Mao was a Communist so he really wasn't following any religion, and neither were those who were responsible for all the killings in Cambodia.  Regardless of the backwardness of China, they certainly are pulling in the bucks and buying prime property in America.  In fact, many Chinese are coming here and are buying multi-million dollar mansions that you nor I could ever afford.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, thank Deng who opened up China, he too was a Communist, with common sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's also the same with people who happen to follow a religion or a belief, but have common sense about it.  Let's hope that China has the common sense to leave Hong Kong alone so the young people can have a democracy which is their wish.
Click to expand...


If only Hoss,but things are more complicated,like most things...steve


----------



## theliq

Hossfly said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a Muslim, we can marry with Christian as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a Muslim, we can marry with Christian as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you can marry a Christian or a Jew, then of course since your religion is so tolerant, if the Christian or Jew wants to raise the child in her religion, you would have no problem with that.  Right?  That's why we see Hindus killed if they have the temerity to marry a Muslim.  I think the title of this thread should have been "The World is Sick of Muslim atrocities" given what is happening in huge amounts of land where innocents are constantly being murdered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Although I am a Deist/Unitarian, I'm beginning to believe that the practice of Religion is the root of all evil in this world which has caused so many deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you tell us what religion Mao and his gang were?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Confucianism although not a religion had a lot of rituals...Mao's atheism was a reaction against the opiate of the people which caused so much backwardness in China and still does so today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually Mao was a Communist so he really wasn't following any religion, and neither were those who were responsible for all the killings in Cambodia.  Regardless of the backwardness of China, they certainly are pulling in the bucks and buying prime property in America.  In fact, many Chinese are coming here and are buying multi-million dollar mansions that you nor I could ever afford.
Click to expand...

Often with Illegitimate money,often party members who have stolen/misappropriated government funds...moreover Hoss using laundered money that they could never have earned in the communist system.In Australia we are having the same problem.....We are working closely with the Chinese Government to weed out these crooks and deport them to China....I believe America are doing the same......we are investigating these people through the taxation and police,security departments.

These buyers from China are paying way above the market price for both residential,commercial and agricultural properties........and the down side is locals cannot compete price wise........I think the Triads are also involved


----------



## theliq

Hossfly said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a Muslim, we can marry with Christian as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a Muslim, we can marry with Christian as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you can marry a Christian or a Jew, then of course since your religion is so tolerant, if the Christian or Jew wants to raise the child in her religion, you would have no problem with that.  Right?  That's why we see Hindus killed if they have the temerity to marry a Muslim.  I think the title of this thread should have been "The World is Sick of Muslim atrocities" given what is happening in huge amounts of land where innocents are constantly being murdered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Although I am a Deist/Unitarian, I'm beginning to believe that the practice of Religion is the root of all evil in this world which has caused so many deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you tell us what religion Mao and his gang were?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Confucianism although not a religion had a lot of rituals...Mao's atheism was a reaction against the opiate of the people which caused so much backwardness in China and still does so today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually Mao was a Communist so he really wasn't following any religion, and neither were those who were responsible for all the killings in Cambodia.  Regardless of the backwardness of China, they certainly are pulling in the bucks and buying prime property in America.  In fact, many Chinese are coming here and are buying multi-million dollar mansions that you nor I could ever afford.
Click to expand...

They ain't backward Hoss...they are smarter than you and I,and much smarter than our respective Governments,that's for sure.


----------



## docmauser1

pbel said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> How silly you are, what government you talking about dumb, can't you see, Palestinians are under occupation you moron evil think and thinks silly paid tout of jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom of occupation palistanians have. Free will palistinins choose occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No there is no free will, ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course, there is! It's freedom of occupation and palistanians are happy with their chosen occupation, of course.
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> for example if some one invade your home and you are in side, will you accept it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We aren't having a palistan cheerleader class to lap that "poor 'n robbed" palistanian rock 'n roll.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ????????????Speaking Jackass again of course...Gawd, I hope your not a real doctor...If your patients are psychos they may very well understand the drivel language of course!
Click to expand...

Why!? I've patients here too! All the palistan cheercrowd of them, in fact! No telling the amount of drivel they produce!


----------



## pbel

theliq said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you can marry a Christian or a Jew, then of course since your religion is so tolerant, if the Christian or Jew wants to raise the child in her religion, you would have no problem with that.  Right?  That's why we see Hindus killed if they have the temerity to marry a Muslim.  I think the title of this thread should have been "The World is Sick of Muslim atrocities" given what is happening in huge amounts of land where innocents are constantly being murdered.
> 
> 
> 
> Although I am a Deist/Unitarian, I'm beginning to believe that the practice of Religion is the root of all evil in this world which has caused so many deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you tell us what religion Mao and his gang were?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Confucianism although not a religion had a lot of rituals...Mao's atheism was a reaction against the opiate of the people which caused so much backwardness in China and still does so today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually Mao was a Communist so he really wasn't following any religion, and neither were those who were responsible for all the killings in Cambodia.  Regardless of the backwardness of China, they certainly are pulling in the bucks and buying prime property in America.  In fact, many Chinese are coming here and are buying multi-million dollar mansions that you nor I could ever afford.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They ain't backward Hoss...they are smarter than you and I,and much smarter than our respective Governments,that's for sure.
Click to expand...

They have the highest IQs in the world!


----------



## pbel

docmauser1 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> How silly you are, what government you talking about dumb, can't you see, Palestinians are under occupation you moron evil think and thinks silly paid tout of jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom of occupation palistanians have. Free will palistinins choose occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No there is no free will, ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course, there is! It's freedom of occupation and palistanians are happy with their chosen occupation, of course.
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> for example if some one invade your home and you are in side, will you accept it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We aren't having a palistan cheerleader class to lap that "poor 'n robbed" palistanian rock 'n roll.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ????????????Speaking Jackass again of course...Gawd, I hope your not a real doctor...If your patients are psychos they may very well understand the drivel language of course!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why!? I've patients here too! All the palistan cheercrowd of them, in fact! No telling the amount of drivel they produce!
Click to expand...

I doubt you're a real doctor because your Mauser, Mauser posts reek of Dr. Mengele...


----------



## pbel

Baruch Menachem said:


> However, the world is cool with islamic atrocities, such as perpetrated by boku haram, Isis, those jerks in Ottowa yesterday, etc etc etc way to often etc


No one is cool with Terrorism except when they receive it...Sixty years of Israeli Terrorism on the Palestinians and everyone of her neighbor States will bring retribution...


----------



## docmauser1

pbel said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom of occupation palistanians have. Free will palistinins choose occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> No there is no free will, ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course, there is! It's freedom of occupation and palistanians are happy with their chosen occupation, of course.
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> for example if some one invade your home and you are in side, will you accept it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We aren't having a palistan cheerleader class to lap that "poor 'n robbed" palistanian rock 'n roll.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ????????????Speaking Jackass again of course...Gawd, I hope your not a real doctor...If your patients are psychos they may very well understand the drivel language of course!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why!? I've patients here too! All the palistan cheercrowd of them, in fact! No telling the amount of drivel they produce!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I doubt you're a real doctor because your Mauser, Mauser posts reek of Dr. Mengele...
Click to expand...

Funny, how would our local cheerleaders for palistanian thugs know and tell?


----------



## docmauser1

pbel said:


> Baruch Menachem said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, the world is cool with islamic atrocities, such as perpetrated by boku haram, Isis, those jerks in Ottowa yesterday, etc etc etc way to often etc
> 
> 
> 
> No one is cool with Terrorism except when they receive it...Sixty years of Israeli Terrorism on the Palestinians and everyone of her neighbor States will bring retribution...
Click to expand...

Ain't that drivel?


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> ...They have the highest IQs in the world!


----------



## pbel

Kondor3 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...They have the highest IQs in the world!
Click to expand...

*The Toilet Paper Baron:*

*List of Average IQ By Country and American States BrandonGaille.com*
*Top 20 Highest IQ Countries*
1. Hong Kong: 107
2. South Korea: 106
3. Japan: 105
4. Taiwan: 104
5. Singapore: 103
6. Austria: 102
7. Germany: 102
8. Italy: 102
9. Netherlands: 102
10. Sweden: 101
11. Switzerland: 101
12. Belgium: 100
13. China: 100
14. New Zealand: 100
15. United Kingdom: 100
16. Hungary: 99
17. Poland: 99
18. Spain: 99
19. Australia: 98
20. Denmark: 98


----------



## docmauser1

pbel said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...They have the highest IQs in the world!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Toilet Paper Baron:*
> 
> *List of Average IQ By Country and American States BrandonGaille.com*
> *Top 20 Highest IQ Countries*
> 1. Hong Kong: 107
> 2. South Korea: 106
> 3. Japan: 105
> 4. Taiwan: 104
> 5. Singapore: 103
> 6. Austria: 102
> 7. Germany: 102
> 8. Italy: 102
> 9. Netherlands: 102
> 10. Sweden: 101
> 11. Switzerland: 101
> 12. Belgium: 100
> 13. China: 100
> 14. New Zealand: 100
> 15. United Kingdom: 100
> 16. Hungary: 99
> 17. Poland: 99
> 18. Spain: 99
> 19. Australia: 98
> 20. Denmark: 98
Click to expand...

Cool, where do our palistanians stand?


----------



## pbel

docmauser1 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...They have the highest IQs in the world!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Toilet Paper Baron:*
> 
> *List of Average IQ By Country and American States BrandonGaille.com*
> *Top 20 Highest IQ Countries*
> 1. Hong Kong: 107
> 2. South Korea: 106
> 3. Japan: 105
> 4. Taiwan: 104
> 5. Singapore: 103
> 6. Austria: 102
> 7. Germany: 102
> 8. Italy: 102
> 9. Netherlands: 102
> 10. Sweden: 101
> 11. Switzerland: 101
> 12. Belgium: 100
> 13. China: 100
> 14. New Zealand: 100
> 15. United Kingdom: 100
> 16. Hungary: 99
> 17. Poland: 99
> 18. Spain: 99
> 19. Australia: 98
> 20. Denmark: 98
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cool, where do our palistanians stand?
Click to expand...

Notice Israel is absent from the list?


----------



## pbel

Kondor3 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...They have the highest IQs in the world!
Click to expand...

Hong Kong is in China...


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...They have the highest IQs in the world!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Toilet Paper Baron:*
> 
> *List of Average IQ By Country and American States BrandonGaille.com*
> *Top 20 Highest IQ Countries*
> 1. Hong Kong: 107
> 2. South Korea: 106
> 3. Japan: 105
> 4. Taiwan: 104
> 5. Singapore: 103
> 6. Austria: 102
> 7. Germany: 102
> 8. Italy: 102
> 9. Netherlands: 102
> 10. Sweden: 101
> 11. Switzerland: 101
> 12. Belgium: 100
> 13. China: 100
> 14. New Zealand: 100
> 15. United Kingdom: 100
> 16. Hungary: 99
> 17. Poland: 99
> 18. Spain: 99
> 19. Australia: 98
> 20. Denmark: 98
Click to expand...

You seem to be operating under the impression that anybody (outside their propaganda operatives circle, anyway) gives a rat's ass, what the average Palestinian IQ is.

In truth, one need look no further than their self-inflicted situation - with copious documentation stretching back the better part of a century, in connection with really, really bad, idiotic political and diplomatic and military and governance decisions - in order to raise an eyebrow at claims that the Palestinians have the highest IQs in the world.

As to the rest, you're a Hamas political hack, and insults, coming from you, are high praise indeed.

All the more amusing because they are coming unsolicited and unprovoked - betraying your modus operandi, of attempting (and failing) to insult and denigrate your opponents - especially those who advocate for the expulsion of the Palestinians - pure Muslim propagandist attack-dog tactics.

=========================

ETA - Correction: the IQ reference was to the Chinese, not the Palestinians. My fault.

The other observations stand, however, in connection with the foolhardy manner in which the Palestinians have historically (and presently) conducted themselves, and with respect to your unprovoked personal insults.


----------



## pbel

Kondor3 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...They have the highest IQs in the world!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Toilet Paper Baron:*
> 
> *List of Average IQ By Country and American States BrandonGaille.com*
> *Top 20 Highest IQ Countries*
> 1. Hong Kong: 107
> 2. South Korea: 106
> 3. Japan: 105
> 4. Taiwan: 104
> 5. Singapore: 103
> 6. Austria: 102
> 7. Germany: 102
> 8. Italy: 102
> 9. Netherlands: 102
> 10. Sweden: 101
> 11. Switzerland: 101
> 12. Belgium: 100
> 13. China: 100
> 14. New Zealand: 100
> 15. United Kingdom: 100
> 16. Hungary: 99
> 17. Poland: 99
> 18. Spain: 99
> 19. Australia: 98
> 20. Denmark: 98
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You seem to be operating under the impression that anybody (outside their propaganda operatives circle, anyway) gives a rat's ass, what the average Palestinian IQ is.
> 
> In truth, one need look no further than their self-inflicted situation - with copious documentation stretching back the better part of a century, in connection with really, really bad, idiotic political and diplomatic and military and governance decisions - in order to raise an eyebrow at claims that the Palestinians have the highest IQs in the world.
> 
> As to the rest, you're a Hamas political hack, and insults, coming from you, are high praise indeed.
> 
> All the more amusing because they are coming unsolicited and unprovoked - betraying your modus operandi, of attempting (and failing) to insult and denigrate your opponents - especially those who advocate for the expulsion of the Palestinians - pure Muslim propagandist attack-dog tactics.
Click to expand...

In truth, you're the laughing stock of the board Konquistador of the Toilet Bowl All you spew is crap and the expulsion of innocents from their ancestral homes...And like a real Condor you delight in eating death and Shiite, wipe your mouth, I saved you a roll...


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> ...In truth, you're the laughing stock...


High praise, indeed, coming from a Palestinian propaganda shill. What does this have to do with the topic?


----------



## aris2chat

pbel said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...They have the highest IQs in the world!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Toilet Paper Baron:*
> 
> *List of Average IQ By Country and American States BrandonGaille.com*
> *Top 20 Highest IQ Countries*
> 1. Hong Kong: 107
> 2. South Korea: 106
> 3. Japan: 105
> 4. Taiwan: 104
> 5. Singapore: 103
> 6. Austria: 102
> 7. Germany: 102
> 8. Italy: 102
> 9. Netherlands: 102
> 10. Sweden: 101
> 11. Switzerland: 101
> 12. Belgium: 100
> 13. China: 100
> 14. New Zealand: 100
> 15. United Kingdom: 100
> 16. Hungary: 99
> 17. Poland: 99
> 18. Spain: 99
> 19. Australia: 98
> 20. Denmark: 98
Click to expand...



Sadly rhetorical question....... "Is that all?


----------



## docmauser1

pbel said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...They have the highest IQs in the world!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hong Kong is in China...
Click to expand...

And the title of Captain Obvious goes to our honorable pbel!! Indeed, Hong Kong, the place, refugees from the China mainland ran to, and what's funny (and not all that obvious), they didn't sit on their asses, driveling some "right of return", but got a life and a job to live and to do and built Hong Kong. But I digress.


----------



## docmauser1

pbel said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...They have the highest IQs in the world!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Toilet Paper Baron:*
> 
> *List of Average IQ By Country and American States BrandonGaille.com*
> *Top 20 Highest IQ Countries*
> 1. Hong Kong: 107
> 2. South Korea: 106
> 3. Japan: 105
> 4. Taiwan: 104
> 5. Singapore: 103
> 6. Austria: 102
> 7. Germany: 102
> 8. Italy: 102
> 9. Netherlands: 102
> 10. Sweden: 101
> 11. Switzerland: 101
> 12. Belgium: 100
> 13. China: 100
> 14. New Zealand: 100
> 15. United Kingdom: 100
> 16. Hungary: 99
> 17. Poland: 99
> 18. Spain: 99
> 19. Australia: 98
> 20. Denmark: 98
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cool, where do our palistanians stand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Notice Israel is absent from the list?
Click to expand...

Who cares. We're talking palistanians, of course. Where do they stand?


----------



## pbel

docmauser1 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...They have the highest IQs in the world!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hong Kong is in China...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the title of Captain Obvious goes to our honorable pbel!! Indeed, Hong Kong, the place, refugees from the China mainland ran to, and what's funny (and not all that obvious), they didn't sit on their asses, driveling some "right of return", but got a life and a job to live and to do and built Hong Kong. But I digress.
Click to expand...

You are correct on that regard, Hard work, education and wealth I'm sure run in parallel with IQs...All human societies have geniuses...Let's drop it and get back to the OP of Israeli Atrocities...


----------



## Kondor3

docmauser1 said:


> ...Who cares. We're talking palistanians, of course. Where do they stand?


Given that they're not really a 'country', I wonder if they were even evaluated separately. Probably not. Perhaps the score for Jordan will suffice. Or not.


----------



## Rehmani

Hossfly said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> How silly you are, what government you talking about dumb, can't you see, Palestinians are under occupation you moron evil think and thinks silly paid tout of jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom of occupation palistanians have. Free will palistinins choose occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No there is no free will, for example if some one invade your home and you are in side, will you accept it?
> 
> For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why did you marry a Jewess?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As a Muslim, we can marry with Christian as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> How silly you are, what government you talking about dumb, can't you see, Palestinians are under occupation you moron evil think and thinks silly paid tout of jewish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Freedom of occupation palistanians have. Free will palistinins choose occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No there is no free will, for example if some one invade your home and you are in side, will you accept it?
> 
> For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why did you marry a Jewess?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As a Muslim, we can marry with Christian as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you can marry a Christian or a Jew, then of course since your religion is so tolerant, if the Christian or Jew wants to raise the child in her religion, you would have no problem with that.  Right?  That's why we see Hindus killed if they have the temerity to marry a Muslim.  I think the title of this thread should have been "The World is Sick of Muslim atrocities" given what is happening in huge amounts of land where innocents are constantly being murdered.
Click to expand...

I think Hindu are killing to those Muslim, who are getting married to hindu girl.


----------



## Rehmani

pbel said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom of occupation palistanians have. Free will palistinins choose occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> No there is no free will, for example if some one invade your home and you are in side, will you accept it?
> 
> For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why did you marry a Jewess?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As a Muslim, we can marry with Christian as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom of occupation palistanians have. Free will palistinins choose occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No there is no free will, for example if some one invade your home and you are in side, will you accept it?
> 
> For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why did you marry a Jewess?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As a Muslim, we can marry with Christian as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you can marry a Christian or a Jew, then of course since your religion is so tolerant, if the Christian or Jew wants to raise the child in her religion, you would have no problem with that.  Right?  That's why we see Hindus killed if they have the temerity to marry a Muslim.  I think the title of this thread should have been "The World is Sick of Muslim atrocities" given what is happening in huge amounts of land where innocents are constantly being murdered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Although I am a Deist/Unitarian, I'm beginning to believe that the practice of Religion is the root of all evil in this world which has caused so many deaths.
Click to expand...

But religion is also responsible to bring the world in today's modern civilization.


----------



## Rehmani

Hossfly said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> No there is no free will, for example if some one invade your home and you are in side, will you accept it?
> 
> For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.
> 
> 
> 
> Then why did you marry a Jewess?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As a Muslim, we can marry with Christian as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> No there is no free will, for example if some one invade your home and you are in side, will you accept it?
> 
> For Jews Only:I will advise to jews that jews are not special race and masaya not coming, Please get your self free from yours elders, you are not their slaves. Jew's elders using jew as a spy on other nations. This is the reason Jews population ont growing because jew mixing in other nation as spy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why did you marry a Jewess?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As a Muslim, we can marry with Christian as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you can marry a Christian or a Jew, then of course since your religion is so tolerant, if the Christian or Jew wants to raise the child in her religion, you would have no problem with that.  Right?  That's why we see Hindus killed if they have the temerity to marry a Muslim.  I think the title of this thread should have been "The World is Sick of Muslim atrocities" given what is happening in huge amounts of land where innocents are constantly being murdered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Although I am a Deist/Unitarian, I'm beginning to believe that the practice of Religion is the root of all evil in this world which has caused so many deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you tell us what religion Mao and his gang were?
Click to expand...

May be Buddhist or Confucius.


----------



## Rehmani

pbel said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then why did you marry a Jewess?
> 
> 
> 
> As a Muslim, we can marry with Christian as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then why did you marry a Jewess?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As a Muslim, we can marry with Christian as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you can marry a Christian or a Jew, then of course since your religion is so tolerant, if the Christian or Jew wants to raise the child in her religion, you would have no problem with that.  Right?  That's why we see Hindus killed if they have the temerity to marry a Muslim.  I think the title of this thread should have been "The World is Sick of Muslim atrocities" given what is happening in huge amounts of land where innocents are constantly being murdered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Although I am a Deist/Unitarian, I'm beginning to believe that the practice of Religion is the root of all evil in this world which has caused so many deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you tell us what religion Mao and his gang were?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Confucianism although not a religion had a lot of rituals...Mao's atheism was a reaction against the opiate of the people which caused so much backwardness in China and still does so today.
Click to expand...


That is exactly what Christianity did in Europe and Islam did in rest of the world but you people are not agree with that situation. And you have modern western world.


----------



## Rehmani

pbel said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you can marry a Christian or a Jew, then of course since your religion is so tolerant, if the Christian or Jew wants to raise the child in her religion, you would have no problem with that.  Right?  That's why we see Hindus killed if they have the temerity to marry a Muslim.  I think the title of this thread should have been "The World is Sick of Muslim atrocities" given what is happening in huge amounts of land where innocents are constantly being murdered.
> 
> 
> 
> Although I am a Deist/Unitarian, I'm beginning to believe that the practice of Religion is the root of all evil in this world which has caused so many deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you tell us what religion Mao and his gang were?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Confucianism although not a religion had a lot of rituals...Mao's atheism was a reaction against the opiate of the people which caused so much backwardness in China and still does so today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually Mao was a Communist so he really wasn't following any religion, and neither were those who were responsible for all the killings in Cambodia.  Regardless of the backwardness of China, they certainly are pulling in the bucks and buying prime property in America.  In fact, many Chinese are coming here and are buying multi-million dollar mansions that you nor I could ever afford.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, thank Deng who opened up China, he too was a Communist, with common sense.
Click to expand...

But again religion is very important element of our society and Mao had some kind of religion or practice.


----------



## MaryL

Ok. I never heard of an Jewish suicide bomber. I haven't seen to many videos of Christians  chopping  Muslim heads  off on
the internet  . Why is it Only Muslims do this crazy shit? Sick of atrocities my sweet bippy, no, I think not, Muslims use this to their sick  advantage.


----------



## pbel

MaryL said:


> Ok. I never heard of an Jewish suicide bomber. I haven't seen to many videos of Christians  chopping  Muslim heads  off on
> the internet  . Why is it Only Muslims do this crazy shit? Sick of atrocities my sweet bippy, no, I think not, Muslims use this to their sick  advantage.


Maybe you haven't read about Hindu rapes of young girls and their hangings, or other atrocities in many other underdeveloped regions? The Jews in Israel just Politely murdered over 2100 Gaza of which 1800 were civilians including women and babies, but you knew that!


----------



## docmauser1

pbel said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...They have the highest IQs in the world!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hong Kong is in China...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the title of Captain Obvious goes to our honorable pbel!! Indeed, Hong Kong, the place, refugees from the China mainland ran to, and what's funny (and not all that obvious), they didn't sit on their asses, driveling some "right of return", but got a life and a job to live and to do and built Hong Kong. But I digress.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are correct on that regard, Hard work, education and wealth I'm sure run in parallel with IQs...All human societies have geniuses...Let's drop it and get back to the OP of Israeli Atrocities...
Click to expand...

And palistanian society is no exception, having geniuses of their own, the occupational ones, unique, I must add.


----------



## docmauser1

pbel said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok. I never heard of an Jewish suicide bomber. I haven't seen to many videos of Christians  chopping  Muslim heads  off on
> the internet  . Why is it Only Muslims do this crazy shit? Sick of atrocities my sweet bippy, no, I think not, Muslims use this to their sick  advantage.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you haven't read about Hindu rapes of young girls and their hangings, or other atrocities in many other underdeveloped regions? The Jews in Israel just Politely murdered over 2100 Gaza of which 1800 were civilians including women and babies, but you knew that!
Click to expand...

Gazabadians die, frequently, as any occupation has its hazards, and the palistanian occupation is no exception to the rule, of course.


----------



## member

pbel said:


> *I don't think there is any doubt that this resolution will pass, even AIPAC influenced America may support it. The world is sick of Israeli atrocities...*
> 
> Palestinians Israeli occupation must end in 2016 - Yahoo News
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The Palestinians are asking the U.N. Security Council to set a deadline of November 2016 for an Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied since 1967 including East Jerusalem in a new push to achieve independence.
> *Related Stories*
> 
> Abbas demands end to Israeli occupation 'now' AFP
> Palestinian leader in new UN bid to end occupation Associated Press
> Israel-Palestinian 'solution' to be put to UN Security Council AFP
> West Bank settler group boasts rapid growth Associated Press
> How Palestinian divisions undercut call for a UN deadline on statehood Christian Science Monitor
> The circulation of the draft resolution to council members follows Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' announcement to the U.N. General Assembly last Friday that he would ask the council to set a deadline for a pullout and dictate the ground rules for any talks with Israel.
> The draft resolution, obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, would affirm the Security Council's determination to contribute to attaining a peaceful solution that ends the Israeli occupation "without delay" and fulfill the vision of two states — "an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable state of Palestine" living side by side with Israel in peace and security in borders based on those before the 1967 Mideast war.


 



*"THE WORLD IS SICK OF ISRAELI ATROCITIES..."*

not as sick as...._*you know*_:.....


----------



## teddyearp

theliq said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> The trolling going on in this thread needs to stop, otherwise it's going to be closed having run it course.  Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The trouble with uppity posts like this,is a form of restriction to comment.....what do you mean by TROLLING for example,I see little of it on USMB,if you are referring to opposing sides bantering including the odd abuse,so what!!!!!! I think you are over reacting completely in calling for a total ban....moreover often threads like this often brings up new and interesting debates as the thread moves forward......your assumption that (in your words Trolling) some how you imagine brings a thread to an early close is simply absured
Click to expand...


I seriously wish you would keep doing things like this.  Seriously. Please.


----------



## theliq

Kondor3 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...They have the highest IQs in the world!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Toilet Paper Baron:*
> 
> *List of Average IQ By Country and American States BrandonGaille.com*
> *Top 20 Highest IQ Countries*
> 1. Hong Kong: 107
> 2. South Korea: 106
> 3. Japan: 105
> 4. Taiwan: 104
> 5. Singapore: 103
> 6. Austria: 102
> 7. Germany: 102
> 8. Italy: 102
> 9. Netherlands: 102
> 10. Sweden: 101
> 11. Switzerland: 101
> 12. Belgium: 100
> 13. China: 100
> 14. New Zealand: 100
> 15. United Kingdom: 100
> 16. Hungary: 99
> 17. Poland: 99
> 18. Spain: 99
> 19. Australia: 98
> 20. Denmark: 98
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You seem to be operating under the impression that anybody (outside their propaganda operatives circle, anyway) gives a rat's ass, what the average Palestinian IQ is.
> 
> In truth, one need look no further than their self-inflicted situation - with copious documentation stretching back the better part of a century, in connection with really, really bad, idiotic political and diplomatic and military and governance decisions - in order to raise an eyebrow at claims that the Palestinians have the highest IQs in the world.
> 
> As to the rest, you're a Hamas political hack, and insults, coming from you, are high praise indeed.
> 
> All the more amusing because they are coming unsolicited and unprovoked - betraying your modus operandi, of attempting (and failing) to insult and denigrate your opponents - especially those who advocate for the expulsion of the Palestinians - pure Muslim propagandist attack-dog tactics.
> 
> =========================
> 
> ETA - Correction: the IQ reference was to the Chinese, not the Palestinians. My fault.
> 
> The other observations stand, however, in connection with the foolhardy manner in which the Palestinians have historically (and presently) conducted themselves, and with respect to your unprovoked personal insults.
Click to expand...

Dick Head


----------



## Kondor3

theliq said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...The other observations stand, however, in connection with the foolhardy manner in which the Palestinians have historically (and presently) conducted themselves, and with respect to your unprovoked personal insults.
> 
> 
> 
> Dick Head
Click to expand...

Yes, yes, yes... very nice, I'm sure... thank you for your feedback on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Pissant.


----------



## Hossfly

theliq said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...They have the highest IQs in the world!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Toilet Paper Baron:*
> 
> *List of Average IQ By Country and American States BrandonGaille.com*
> *Top 20 Highest IQ Countries*
> 1. Hong Kong: 107
> 2. South Korea: 106
> 3. Japan: 105
> 4. Taiwan: 104
> 5. Singapore: 103
> 6. Austria: 102
> 7. Germany: 102
> 8. Italy: 102
> 9. Netherlands: 102
> 10. Sweden: 101
> 11. Switzerland: 101
> 12. Belgium: 100
> 13. China: 100
> 14. New Zealand: 100
> 15. United Kingdom: 100
> 16. Hungary: 99
> 17. Poland: 99
> 18. Spain: 99
> 19. Australia: 98
> 20. Denmark: 98
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You seem to be operating under the impression that anybody (outside their propaganda operatives circle, anyway) gives a rat's ass, what the average Palestinian IQ is.
> 
> In truth, one need look no further than their self-inflicted situation - with copious documentation stretching back the better part of a century, in connection with really, really bad, idiotic political and diplomatic and military and governance decisions - in order to raise an eyebrow at claims that the Palestinians have the highest IQs in the world.
> 
> As to the rest, you're a Hamas political hack, and insults, coming from you, are high praise indeed.
> 
> All the more amusing because they are coming unsolicited and unprovoked - betraying your modus operandi, of attempting (and failing) to insult and denigrate your opponents - especially those who advocate for the expulsion of the Palestinians - pure Muslim propagandist attack-dog tactics.
> 
> =========================
> 
> ETA - Correction: the IQ reference was to the Chinese, not the Palestinians. My fault.
> 
> The other observations stand, however, in connection with the foolhardy manner in which the Palestinians have historically (and presently) conducted themselves, and with respect to your unprovoked personal insults.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dick Head
Click to expand...

That's my line, Steve. Find your own!


theliq said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...They have the highest IQs in the world!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Toilet Paper Baron:*
> 
> *List of Average IQ By Country and American States BrandonGaille.com*
> *Top 20 Highest IQ Countries*
> 1. Hong Kong: 107
> 2. South Korea: 106
> 3. Japan: 105
> 4. Taiwan: 104
> 5. Singapore: 103
> 6. Austria: 102
> 7. Germany: 102
> 8. Italy: 102
> 9. Netherlands: 102
> 10. Sweden: 101
> 11. Switzerland: 101
> 12. Belgium: 100
> 13. China: 100
> 14. New Zealand: 100
> 15. United Kingdom: 100
> 16. Hungary: 99
> 17. Poland: 99
> 18. Spain: 99
> 19. Australia: 98
> 20. Denmark: 98
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You seem to be operating under the impression that anybody (outside their propaganda operatives circle, anyway) gives a rat's ass, what the average Palestinian IQ is.
> 
> In truth, one need look no further than their self-inflicted situation - with copious documentation stretching back the better part of a century, in connection with really, really bad, idiotic political and diplomatic and military and governance decisions - in order to raise an eyebrow at claims that the Palestinians have the highest IQs in the world.
> 
> As to the rest, you're a Hamas political hack, and insults, coming from you, are high praise indeed.
> 
> All the more amusing because they are coming unsolicited and unprovoked - betraying your modus operandi, of attempting (and failing) to insult and denigrate your opponents - especially those who advocate for the expulsion of the Palestinians - pure Muslim propagandist attack-dog tactics.
> 
> =========================
> 
> ETA - Correction: the IQ reference was to the Chinese, not the Palestinians. My fault.
> 
> The other observations stand, however, in connection with the foolhardy manner in which the Palestinians have historically (and presently) conducted themselves, and with respect to your unprovoked personal insults.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dick Head
Click to expand...

That's my line, Steve. Find your own!  theliq


----------



## theliq

Kondor3 said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...The other observations stand, however, in connection with the foolhardy manner in which the Palestinians have historically (and presently) conducted themselves, and with respect to your unprovoked personal insults.
> 
> 
> 
> Dick Head
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, yes, yes... very nice, I'm sure... thank you for your feedback on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Pissant.
Click to expand...

As you know I dislike you and everything you spew.....Dick Head,as I say "If the Cap fits WEAR IT"......and you wear it very well INDEED......Piss Ant


----------



## theliq

Hossfly said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...They have the highest IQs in the world!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Toilet Paper Baron:*
> 
> *List of Average IQ By Country and American States BrandonGaille.com*
> *Top 20 Highest IQ Countries*
> 1. Hong Kong: 107
> 2. South Korea: 106
> 3. Japan: 105
> 4. Taiwan: 104
> 5. Singapore: 103
> 6. Austria: 102
> 7. Germany: 102
> 8. Italy: 102
> 9. Netherlands: 102
> 10. Sweden: 101
> 11. Switzerland: 101
> 12. Belgium: 100
> 13. China: 100
> 14. New Zealand: 100
> 15. United Kingdom: 100
> 16. Hungary: 99
> 17. Poland: 99
> 18. Spain: 99
> 19. Australia: 98
> 20. Denmark: 98
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You seem to be operating under the impression that anybody (outside their propaganda operatives circle, anyway) gives a rat's ass, what the average Palestinian IQ is.
> 
> In truth, one need look no further than their self-inflicted situation - with copious documentation stretching back the better part of a century, in connection with really, really bad, idiotic political and diplomatic and military and governance decisions - in order to raise an eyebrow at claims that the Palestinians have the highest IQs in the world.
> 
> As to the rest, you're a Hamas political hack, and insults, coming from you, are high praise indeed.
> 
> All the more amusing because they are coming unsolicited and unprovoked - betraying your modus operandi, of attempting (and failing) to insult and denigrate your opponents - especially those who advocate for the expulsion of the Palestinians - pure Muslim propagandist attack-dog tactics.
> 
> =========================
> 
> ETA - Correction: the IQ reference was to the Chinese, not the Palestinians. My fault.
> 
> The other observations stand, however, in connection with the foolhardy manner in which the Palestinians have historically (and presently) conducted themselves, and with respect to your unprovoked personal insults.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dick Head
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's my line, Steve. Find your own!
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...They have the highest IQs in the world!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Toilet Paper Baron:*
> 
> *List of Average IQ By Country and American States BrandonGaille.com*
> *Top 20 Highest IQ Countries*
> 1. Hong Kong: 107
> 2. South Korea: 106
> 3. Japan: 105
> 4. Taiwan: 104
> 5. Singapore: 103
> 6. Austria: 102
> 7. Germany: 102
> 8. Italy: 102
> 9. Netherlands: 102
> 10. Sweden: 101
> 11. Switzerland: 101
> 12. Belgium: 100
> 13. China: 100
> 14. New Zealand: 100
> 15. United Kingdom: 100
> 16. Hungary: 99
> 17. Poland: 99
> 18. Spain: 99
> 19. Australia: 98
> 20. Denmark: 98
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You seem to be operating under the impression that anybody (outside their propaganda operatives circle, anyway) gives a rat's ass, what the average Palestinian IQ is.
> 
> In truth, one need look no further than their self-inflicted situation - with copious documentation stretching back the better part of a century, in connection with really, really bad, idiotic political and diplomatic and military and governance decisions - in order to raise an eyebrow at claims that the Palestinians have the highest IQs in the world.
> 
> As to the rest, you're a Hamas political hack, and insults, coming from you, are high praise indeed.
> 
> All the more amusing because they are coming unsolicited and unprovoked - betraying your modus operandi, of attempting (and failing) to insult and denigrate your opponents - especially those who advocate for the expulsion of the Palestinians - pure Muslim propagandist attack-dog tactics.
> 
> =========================
> 
> ETA - Correction: the IQ reference was to the Chinese, not the Palestinians. My fault.
> 
> The other observations stand, however, in connection with the foolhardy manner in which the Palestinians have historically (and presently) conducted themselves, and with respect to your unprovoked personal insults.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dick Head
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's my line, Steve. Find your own!  theliq
Click to expand...


I didn't think you talked like that.....I thought that was my preserve...steve


----------



## Kondor3

theliq said:


> ...As you know I dislike you and everything you spew.....Dick Head,as I say "If the Cap fits WEAR IT"......and you wear it very well INDEED......Piss Ant


No, I didn't know that, really - mostly because you really don't come up on my scope very often, and when you do, you usually bore the hell outta me. But thank you for your feedback. Pissant. Now, back to the Troll Table with you.


----------



## teddyearp

theliq said:


> Dick Head



Ding, ding, ding!  We have a winner!


----------

