# LilOlLady's Everlasting Gobstopper Illegal Immigration Thread



## LilOlLady

ARIZ BOYCOTTS HURT HISPANICS


Arizona boycotts will hurt Hispanics who make up the large part of the hospitality industry. A no win situation for all. But Arizona will recover and SB107 is not going away.

Arizona illegal aliens who are protesting will protest them selves out of jobs and out of the state saving Arizona billions in education, healthcare, law enforcement and welfare.

If illegal aliens are force to leave, either by SB1070 or boycotts, they will go to other state and they will have to provide jobs, healthcare, education, law enforcement and welfare. Costing those states.

If SB1070 is unconstitutional so is the Federal Immigration and Nationality Act that gives Arizona state and local officers the right to do exactly what SB1070 allows them to do. Federal Immigration and Nationality Act goes even farther to allow racial profiling. Hispanic appearance coupled with reasonable suspicion. I guess that does not make a difference since ICE do not process those illegal aliens Arizona turn over the them. They are released if there is no criminal act other than illegal entry.


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## LilOlLady

Anchor Babies: born in the USA - Enormous taxpayer costs
Article by Stephany Gabbard and Frosty Wooldridge
July 9, 2004
 

If you don&#8217;t think our Congress is taking Americans for a ride, think again. According to Dr. Madeleine Cosman, "At least 300,000 to 350,000 anchor babies annually become citizens in California." In 1994, 74,987 anchor babies in maternity units cost taxpayers $215 million in Stockton, California. In 2003, 70 percent of the 2,300 babies born in San Joaquin General maternity ward were from illegal aliens. That number has exploded today with over three million illegal aliens residing in California. 
The French economist Frederic Bastiat said, "The unseen is more expensive than the seen." In Stockton, California, the Silverio Family was featured in the Wall Street Journal in 2003. They were fruit pickers who arrived illegally from Oxtotilan, Mexico in 1997. The wife, Felipa had three kids, but popped an anchor baby named Flor. The child was premature and spent three months in a neonatal incubator at a cost to the San Joaquin Hospital of over $300,000.00. They conceived another, Christian. The second baby made them eligible for $1,000 per month welfare. Because Flor is disabled, she receives $600.00 monthly for asthma. Although the illegal aliens made $18,000.00 annually picking fruit, they collected $12,000.00 of your tax dollars for their anchor babies. One night the father, Cristobal crashed his van. He had no license or insurance. Taxpayers paid for all hospital bills. That&#8217;s why 77 hospitals in border states were going bankrupt in 2003, but Senator John McCain wrote a rider into the Medicaid Bill for $1.4 billion of your tax dollars. It passed. Not to finish the spending spree on these anchor babies, the children attend California schools at a cost of $7,000.00 per year over and above what their parents pay in taxes. The cost for all five of their children for one school year exceeds $35,000.00 times 18 years for a grand taxpayer total of $630,000.00. This is only one family. No wonder California is $38 billion in debt

ANCHOR BABIES: ENORMOUS TAXPAYER COSTS
PART 2
By Frosty Wooldridge
August 20, 2009
[url]http://www.borderfirereport.net/frosty- ... part-2.php

In 1994, 74,987 anchor babies in maternity units cost taxpayers $215 million in 
Stockton, California. In 2003, 70 per cent of the 2,300 babies born in San Joaquin General maternity ward were from illegal aliens. That number has exploded today with over four million illegal aliens residing in California. Nine out of ten babies born in Parkland Hospital in Dallas, Texas stem from unlawful immigrant mothers. The figures for Chicago, New York City, Miami, Houston, Atlanta and other great cities run the same.

Be assured that scams and fraud run rampant. Over 500,000 &#8216;mentally disabled kids&#8217; are on drugs for ADHD and ODD. One lady, Linda Torres was arrested in Bakersfield with $8,500.00 in small bills in her pocket. It was her SSI lump award for her disability, which was heroin addiction.


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## LilOlLady

ANOTHER AMNESTY IS NOT THE SOLUTION.

If Obama was serious about fixing the immigration system illegal aliens have broken he would not be talking about another path to citizenship.(Amnesty) Big corporations is aiding and abetting illegal aliens to break the system, so go after them to fix the illegal immigration problem. Amnesty in 1986 did not fix the illegal immigration so why do he think another amnesty, in the form of Immigration Reform which is really amnesty by another name, will fix it?. The American people are not so stupid as not knowing the difference between enforcement and amnesty. 
Obama is not listening to the American people if he thinks the majority want amnesty for 30 million illegal aliens who are taking their jobs, lowering their wages and destroying their American dream. The American people has been waiting since 1986 for border security and immigration enforcement. 
Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice, shame on you. 
It is not enforcement first and then amnesty. It enforcement. Period.
Been there, done that, (1986) and do not trust you to go there again.

RealClearPolitics - Why Americans Oppose Amnesty for Illegal ...
Jun 2, 2010 ... Why Americans Oppose Amnesty for Illegal Immigrants. By Ed Koch. According to the May 20th New York Times, a little girl asked First Lady ...
www.realclearpolitics.com/.../why_americans_oppose_amnesty_for_illegal_immigrants.html - Cached


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## LilOlLady

*WE ARE ALL IMMIGRANTS*?

(Different time and different kind of immigrant.)

Immigrants of old entered this country legally through Ellis Island and registered. Those that came earlier was when we did not have immigration laws and borders.

Immigrants of old built this country and the did not ask what this country can do for them but what can they do for this country. They did not ask for free education, healthcare, welfare and housing.  We are no longer into nation building but into nation survival. We do not have the natural resources or food to sustain the population growth of 30 million immigrants into this country every 20 years. We already have a water shortage and import much of our food. And where are the jobs for the growth going to come from? Not to mention 30 million low wage earners into our healthcare system.  And their elderly parents will come over and go into our social security system without ever paying into it. SSI with full Medicaid. It will turn us into a third world country. We need limited and controlled immigration in order to survive.

The will pay taxes? They already pay taxes in spite of the rhetoric that they dont.  Very little if any and that will not change with amnesty. And dont forget the crime that has come with immigrants and population growth. Gangs and drugs. It is not true that most illegal aliens are good hard working people who only want to take care of their families.

We will cease to be a democracy and become socialist or communist country because we will have no choice and the end of America as we know it.

Pro-amnesty advocates should think long and hard before they do amnesty for 30 million illegal aliens. Because once it begin, there will be no turning back.


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## Mr. H.

Austria, Slovenia, Germany, and England here.


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## ConHog

California to Arkansas here


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## Charles_Main

English, Irish, German, Scot, Welsh and Native American by blood here. 100% American at heart. 

Speaking specifically of Hispanic Illegal Immigrants. Why does it seem like so many of them do not actually want to be Americans? They want to work here and send money home, Not learn the language, and not assimilate at all into our society. Not all of them by any means but it sure seems like more than any other group of immigrants. Maybe it is just because there are so many more of them than any other group. It just seems like when our ancestors came here, they came here to be Americans, Not to be Mexicans living in America and supporting Mexico.

Just saying.


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## LilOlLady

ALI NOORANI; NEGRO PLEASE
(Executive Director. National Immigration Forum)

Americans against illegal immigration is sick to death of hearing the same old lame rhetoric  to excuse and support illegal immigration that the only choice we have is  round them up and deport them or legalize them. The other choice is go after business that is an incentive for illegal alien cheap labor  or do what Arizona is doing. Enforce our immigration laws and they will self deport. Deportation by attrition. 
Ali Noorani should be in jail for aiding and abetting illegal immigration.

Arizona laws to not allow officers to stop Hispanic looking people at soccer games and ask for papers. Never has happen and never will happen. They are only asked for papers during a traffic violation or during a crime committed. How can you, Ali Noorani, sit their, on C-Span, with a straight face and spew this kind of rhetoric? Typical of pro-amnesty supporters.

How can Ali Noorani support illegal immigration knowing that black men are the hardest affected by illegal aliens. They take jobs black men use to do. Like construction. 

Black Activists Joining Minutemen Against Illegal Immigration ...
Jun 13, 2010 ... While illegal aliens have continued to drive down wages and hurt those ... black -- in the Katrina recovery region were replaced by illegal ...
Black Activists Joining Minutemen Against Illegal Immigration : Diggers Realm - Cached - Similar


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## LilOlLady

Barack Obama on Immigration 
Click here for 42 full quotes on Immigration OR background on Immigration. 

Crack down on employers who hire illegal immigrants. (Jul 2008) 
America has nothing to fear from todays immigrants. (Jun 2008) 
We need comprehensive reform, like McCain used to support. (Jun 2008) 
Recognize the humanity of immigrants: Todos somos Americanos. (Jun 2008) 
GovWatch: Anti-immigrants fuel xenophobia, but 45% increase. (Jun 2008) 
Encourage every student to learn a second language. (Feb 2008) 
Need to look at different aspects of immigration reform. (Feb 2008) 
Have border patrolled, surveillance, and deploy technology. (Feb 2008) 
Increasing the legal fees on immigrants is not helping. (Feb 2008) 
Deporting 12 million people is ridiculous and impractical. (Feb 2008) 
Immigration raids are ineffective. (Feb 2008) 
Solve the drivers license issue with immigration reform. (Jan 2008) 
Immigrants are scapegoats for high unemployment rates. (Jan 2008) 
Health plan: not enough resources for illegal immigrants. (Jan 2008) 
Illegals shouldnt work; but should have path to citizenship. (Dec 2007) 
Dont deputize Americans to turn in illegal immigrants. (Dec 2007) 
OK to provide government services in Spanish. (Dec 2007) 
Comprehensive solution includes employers & borders. (Nov 2007) 
Undocumented workers come here to work, not to drive. (Nov 2007) 
Support granting drivers licenses to illegal immigrants. (Nov 2007) 
FactCheck: Lightning IS likelier than employer prosecution. (Nov 2007) 
Illegal immigrants lack of ID is a public safety concern. (Oct 2007) 
Immigration system is broken for (by) legal immigrants. (Sep 2007) 
Reform must include more border security, and border wall. (Sep 2007) 
Sanctuary cities show that feds are not enforcing law. (Sep 2007) 
Pathway to citizenship, but people have to earn it. (Aug 2007) 
Lets be a nation of laws AND a nation of immigrants. (Aug 2007) 
Do a better job patrolling the Canadian and Mexican borders. (Jun 2007) 
Give immigrants who are here a rigorous path to citizenship. (Jun 2007) 
Extend welfare and Medicaid to immigrants. (Jul 1998) 

Barack Obama on the Issues
Barack Obama on Immigration


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## SW2SILVER

Lil old lady is being pedantic  yet again.  The illegal aliens have won, with all due respect.  They outbreed EVERYONE, they are future voters and they will inevitably be forced to pay taxes, either way. I think,  they win. What laws they are breaking now, they will be forgiven for AND they will re-write future laws  and history to favor themselves. The writing is already on the wall. I don&#8217;t like it better than the rest of you, either, but there it is.


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## Zona

My ancestors came here as illegals on slave ships.  Dammit, by proxy I am an illegal! This sucks.


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## SW2SILVER

My ass has been kicked so many times by wittier and faster  people than you, you can&#8217;t imagine You can't fight these people, they will win. I tried, lord knows. Game over. But, you know what? I still have hope for the future, those poor Hispanic kids will realize just how fucking good they have it here, and 50 years from now, they will hold people like us in high regard. I know it, and they will regret this mess their parents are causing now. Those icky illegals. I mean. It might take a while. They will figure it out eventually.


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## SFC Ollie

Zona said:


> My ancestors came here as illegals on slave ships.  Dammit, by proxy I am an illegal! This sucks.



You were born here, you are (sometimes I think unfortunately) as American as The rest of us.

Me My ancestors were immigrants, I'm 100% American.


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## SFC Ollie

SW2SILVER said:


> My ass has been kicked so many times by wittier and faster  people than you, you cant imagine You can't fight these people, they will win. I tried, lord knows. Game over. But, you know what? I still have hope for the future, those poor Hispanic kids will realize just how fucking good they have it here, and 50 years from now, they will hold people like us in high regard. I know it, and they will regret this mess their parents are causing now. Those icky illegals. I mean. It might take a while. They will figure it out eventually.



Somehow I just don't see that future.


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## SW2SILVER

You don't see that future? Can I join that fantasy, too? I would love to join into that fantasy, but it ain't happening' sweetheart. Like it or not. I bet neither of us like it. Guess  what? Hispanics don't  give a holey shit what either of us think. I wish they did. Life aint fair, it never was. I love the sound of the pipes, by the way. The Mexicans next door like that Narcotráfico musica a bit to much and a bit to loud for my taste, but what is a poor gringo to do now a  days? The cops laugh, boyo. You sign off, and I still live with em, sweeteart. It sucks the cosmic weeenier. They don't EVER go away. Ever. And they just grow stronger wilst YOU sleep. It's something I just deal with.


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## SFC Ollie

SW2SILVER said:


> You don't see that future? Can I join that fantasy, too? I would love to join into that fantasy, but it ain't happening' sweetheart. Like it or not. I bet neither of us like it. Guess  what? Hispanics don't  give a holey shit what either of us think. I wish they did. Life aint fair, it never was. I love the sound of the pipes, by the way. The Mexicans next door like that Narcotráfico musica a bit to much and a bit to loud for my taste, but what is a poor gringo to do now a  days? The cops laugh, boyo. You sign off, and I still live with em, sweeteart. It sucks the cosmic weeenier. They don't EVER go away. Ever. And they just grow stronger wilst YOU sleep. It's something I just deal with.



What are you babbling about? I don't see The kids of illegals 50 years form now giving a shit anymore than their parents do today. And since you must not know, my wife is of Mexican decent.


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## daveman

The earliest entry in my family bible is a record of a birth in Massachusetts in the late 1700's.

I think that qualifies me as native-born.


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## SFC Ollie

daveman said:


> The earliest entry in my family bible is a record of a birth in Massachusetts in the late 1700's.
> 
> I think that qualifies me as native-born.



I don't know for certain how far back my family goes in America, however i do know that my Great great great great (?) Grandfather is the brother of Chief Justice John Marshall.


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## daveman

SFC Ollie said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> The earliest entry in my family bible is a record of a birth in Massachusetts in the late 1700's.
> 
> I think that qualifies me as native-born.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know for certain how far back my family goes in America, however i do know that my Great great great great (?) Grandfather is the brother of Chief Justice John Marshall.
Click to expand...


Cool.


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## editec

Too many immigrants too quickly is the problem.

Immigrants are boon to this society otherwise.


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## daveman

editec said:


> Too many immigrants too quickly is the problem.
> 
> Immigrants are boon to this society otherwise.


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## B. Kidd

SFC Ollie said:


> SW2SILVER said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't see that future? Can I join that fantasy, too? I would love to join into that fantasy, but it ain't happening' sweetheart. Like it or not. I bet neither of us like it. Guess  what? Hispanics don't  give a holey shit what either of us think. I wish they did. Life aint fair, it never was. I love the sound of the pipes, by the way. The Mexicans next door like that Narcotráfico musica a bit to much and a bit to loud for my taste, but what is a poor gringo to do now a  days? The cops laugh, boyo. You sign off, and I still live with em, sweeteart. It sucks the cosmic weeenier. They don't EVER go away. Ever. And they just grow stronger wilst YOU sleep. It's something I just deal with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are you babbling about? I don't see The kids of illegals 50 years form now giving a shit anymore than their parents do today. And since you must not know, my wife is of Mexican decent.
Click to expand...


My wife is Mexican-American too.
She's the oldest of nine siblings. But she is politically aware enough to know that amnesty for illegals is not in the nations best interest. 
But, what is factual, all, and I do mean all, of her brothers and sisters and their families, are pro-amnesty.
It drives her crazier than me, sometimes.


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## José

This is the reaction of Maria Guadalupe (Ollie's wife), Kidd's wife and all the other hispanics who oppose amnesty:

*OK.... I'M ALREADY IN THE US... AND THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS.

LADY LIBERTY... FEEL FREE TO SHUT THE GATES NOW!!!!*


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## José

I'm in no way criticizing hispanics who oppose illegal immigration... I'm just pointing out that their opposition does not mean much.

They are only following the absolutely natural human reaction I described above.


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## saveliberty

editec said:


> Too many immigrants too quickly is the problem.
> 
> Immigrants are boon to this society otherwise.



Unskilled labor with no regard for the law is no boon.  It maybe a boondoggle however.


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## daveman

José;2477274 said:
			
		

> This is the reaction of Maria Guadalupe (Ollie's wife), Kidd's wife and all the other hispanics who oppose amnesty:
> 
> *OK.... I'M ALREADY IN THE US... AND THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS.
> 
> LADY LIBERTY... FEEL FREE TO SHUT THE GATES NOW!!!!*


Supporting amnesty is a slap in the face to all immigrants who followed the rules and didn't break any laws.  You're telling them to fuck off.


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## B. Kidd

José;2477276 said:
			
		

> I'm in no way criticizing hispanics who oppose illegal immigration... I'm just pointing out that their opposition does not mean much.
> 
> They are only following the absolutely natural human reaction I described above.




You're right. Under this current admin., LEGAL Mexican-americans opposition to illegal immigration does not mean much.
Because legal mex.-americans whom have paid their dues and whom realize that under this economy, illegals only drain needed resources, because currently no more 'American Pie' slices exst, only crumbs, for a burgeoning underclass, that will contribute to 'breaking' this nation.
Natural human reaction is a 'strawman' argument, because most of us Americans already know how to think in a reflective state, rather than a base instinctual one.


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## José

> Originally posted by *daveman*
> Supporting amnesty is a slap in the face to all immigrants who followed the rules and didn't break any laws. You're telling them to fuck off.





> Originally posted by *B. Kidd*
> You're right. Under this current admin., LEGAL Mexican-americans opposition to illegal immigration does not mean much.
> Because legal mex.-americans whom have paid their dues and whom realize that under this economy, illegals only drain needed resources, because currently no more 'American Pie' slices exst, only crumbs, for a burgeoning underclass, that will contribute to 'breaking' this nation.
> Natural human reaction is a 'strawman' argument, because most of us Americans already know how to think in a reflective state, rather than a base instinctual one.



Whoa!!!!

Now I feel just like Sarah Palin... All misunderstood!!

Strip Maria Guadalupe and Kidd's wife of their american citizenship and they'll *IMMEDIATELY* become ardent supporters of illegal hispanic immigration.

That was the "natural human reaction" I referred to in my previous post.


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## José

Again, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that behavior... I would probably oppose illegal immigration too.... after I became a US citizen...


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## daveman

José;2477380 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *daveman*
> Supporting amnesty is a slap in the face to all immigrants who followed the rules and didn't break any laws. You're telling them to fuck off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *B. Kidd*
> You're right. Under this current admin., LEGAL Mexican-americans opposition to illegal immigration does not mean much.
> Because legal mex.-americans whom have paid their dues and whom realize that under this economy, illegals only drain needed resources, because currently no more 'American Pie' slices exst, only crumbs, for a burgeoning underclass, that will contribute to 'breaking' this nation.
> Natural human reaction is a 'strawman' argument, because most of us Americans already know how to think in a reflective state, rather than a base instinctual one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whoa!!!!
> 
> Now I feel just like Sarah Palin... All misunderstood!!
> 
> Strip Maria Guadalupe and Kidd's wife of their american citizenship and they'll *IMMEDIATELY* become ardent supporters of illegal hispanic immigration.
> 
> That was the "natural human reaction" I referred to in my previous post.
Click to expand...

Why would they lose citizenship?  Have they not been naturalized?


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## daveman

José;2477383 said:
			
		

> Again, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that behavior... I would probably oppose illegal immigration too.... after I became a US citizen...


So you think criminals should be rewarded.


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## José

Dave...

This is your last chance to understand what I'm trying to say...

If you don't get it now you never will...


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## José

I would go one step further:

Strip Ollie, Kidd and daveman of their American citizenship and The Three Stooges will *IMMEDIATELY* become ardent supporters of illegal *ANGLO* immigration.


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## daveman

José;2477417 said:
			
		

> Dave...
> 
> This is your last chance to understand what I'm trying to say...
> 
> If you don't get it now you never will...


Have you considered the fact that I do get it, and you just don't like my response?


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## daveman

José;2477422 said:
			
		

> I would go one step further:
> 
> Strip Ollie, Kidd and daveman of their American citizenship and The Three Stooges will *IMMEDIATELY* become ardent supporters of illegal *ANGLO* immigration.



Ummmm...no.  You see, we have respect for the rule of law.  Supporters of amnesty don't.  

Foolish argument anyway.  I'm not talking about stripping away anyone's citizenship.  But you seem to think illegals have _earned_ citizenship.  They have not.


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## SFC Ollie

José;2477274 said:
			
		

> This is the reaction of Maria Guadalupe (Ollie's wife), Kidd's wife and all the other hispanics who oppose amnesty:
> 
> *OK.... I'M ALREADY IN THE US... AND THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS.
> 
> LADY LIBERTY... FEEL FREE TO SHUT THE GATES NOW!!!!*



Hey Numb nuts, my wife was born here, as were her parents and 3 of 4 grandparents, one was an immigrant from Spain. 

Next time try using your brain for something other than being a fool.


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## LilOlLady

Liberal Americans: Doing The Jobs That Mexicans Wont Do
Liberal Americans: Doing The Jobs That Mexicans Won?t Do  Elective Decisions


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## José

> Originally posted by *SFC Ollie*
> Hey Numb nuts, my wife was born here, as were her parents and 3 of 4 grandparents, one was an immigrant from Spain.
> 
> Next time try using your brain for something other than being a fool.



So what?? Still doesn't change the core of my argument a bit.

Let's leave your wife aside and pick other hispanics as an example then.

There are certainly thousands of hispanics who became American citizens after the Reagan amnesty and now staunchly oppose illegal immigration. They are the living proof that people in general have a strong tendency to think the way I pointed out:

"*America must keep her borders open until I manage to cross it... Five seconds later, America is free to drop a nuke on it for all I care.... My fellow hispanics still in Mexico can all go fuck themselves...*"

That's why the "*hispanic americans oppose illegal immigration too*" argument is not worth shit.


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## Mr. H.

Try being the butt-end of Gypsy jokes. I'm 1/4. My granmother was Rom, from Slovenia.


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## José

And the same goes for most US citizens like you, Ollie. 

Most Americans like you feel free to oppose illegal immigration and call them "criminals" not because you have a "healthy respect for laws" but because you happened to drop from a vagina on the "right" side of the border.


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## LilOlLady

YIPPIE YI YA, ROUND UM UP.

Lets have a illegal aliens drive and round um up and deport them. (Little joke) Give then a 3notice to leave and then cut off the power. (no joke) In August in Arizona.


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## LilOlLady

*MEXICAN DRUG CARTEL VIOLENCE*

Mexican drug cartel violence has spilled over into this country and border patrol agents are not trained to meet the violence. Obama need to p ut the military force on the border because the violence has to be stopped.

12 National Guard on the border is a joke. A joke on the American people. We need that many in my front yard. Drug cartels are operating inland and 6,000 ICE agents cannot deal with them and illegal aliens too. They need to be increased. Obama says he cannot secure the border? Yes he can if he wanted to and if he cant do it then he need to get our of the way and let someone who can secure it do it.

If we are expected to win the war in Afghanistan, we have to win the war on the border against drug cartels and illegal immigration. Who is benefiting from drugs and illegal aliens? Obama and Calderone.  Obama get votes and Calderone gets money sent back home by illegals and drug money from here goes back to Mexico and spent there.

Governor Jan Brewer was not far off when she said illegal aliens are being used as mules. Drugs cartels are using illegal aliens to carry their drugs across the border in exchange for payment of smuggling them across. They are entering by the hundred, carrying back packs full of drugs. They are even using children. 

It is too costly to enforce our immigration laws and to deport them. How do Obama put a price of the lives of Americans who are affected by drugs and illegal aliens.


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## SFC Ollie

José;2478411 said:
			
		

> And the same goes for most US citizens like you, Ollie.
> 
> Most Americans like you feel free to oppose illegal immigration and call them "criminals" not because you have a "healthy respect for laws" but because you happened to drop from a vagina on the "right" side of the border.



How long has it been since you were called a fucking idiot? My guess is, not very.

 Yes, contrary to what you want to be true , most Americans do have a respect for the Law. And yes, I called you a fucking idiot.


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## saveliberty

Laws help to create order in society.  If we don't have some basic plan in place to allow us to leave home and work without fear of losing everything back home while we are gone, you can't leave home.  Division of labor, opportunity costs of materials, ethics, threat of punishment and many other things allow us to have the lives we do.

If you are intent on breaking down society or the economic system of the US, then illegal immigration is an excellent way to accomplish that.  It is also why it needs to be illegal.

Your argument fails, because it assumes I would choose to enter the US illegally.  It also seems to assume Mexicans have that as the only alternative as well.  The penalties are not strong enough.  Shoot illegals crossing and fine employers at much higher levels.


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## Gadawg73

Charles_Main said:


> English, Irish, German, Scot, Welsh and Native American by blood here. 100% American at heart.
> 
> Speaking specifically of Hispanic Illegal Immigrants. Why does it seem like so many of them do not actually want to be Americans? They want to work here and send money home, Not learn the language, and not assimilate at all into our society. Not all of them by any means but it sure seems like more than any other group of immigrants. Maybe it is just because there are so many more of them than any other group. It just seems like when our ancestors came here, they came here to be Americans, Not to be Mexicans living in America and supporting Mexico.
> 
> Just saying.



After paying rent, feeding yourself, purchasing auto insurance, clothing yourself and the dozens of other expenses you spend $ on, what do you do with your $?
Burn it?
Giving your $ to your family is what most responsible adults do. The US government could learn a valuable lesson from the resoursefullness of these Hispanic folks.
They are more disciplined a people than we are.


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## LilOlLady

*BORDER SECURITY IS NOT ENOUGH*

Border security is not enough or there would not be *20 million illegal aliens *in this country and more entering daily and* 5 million anchor babies*.  Drugs are crossing the border daily with illegal aliens. The problem begins* after *illegal aliens and drug cross the border. The problem is inland in the cities across the country and *Arizona should be declared a state of emergency *and *feds should be there by the thousands*.

Enforcing our immigration laws. Border security without enforcement means nothing. Just more of the same and the American people know that. Immigration Reform should mean nothing less than *immigration enforcement and border security.*I cannot wait until November. I am going to close my eyes and *cast my votes straight against the Obama establishment.*
For the first time in my life, I am ashamed to be a *DEMOCRATE.*


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## Mini 14

With all the politics being played over Arizona, it is only a matter of time before Arizonans take matters into their own hands.

As they should.


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## LilOlLady

*DEPUTIES AUTHORIZED 
TO ENFORCE IMMIGRATION LAWS

El Paso jail locks in feds' funding
Immigration enforcement yields new revenue during tight times. 
By Bruce Finley*
The Denver Post

Maketa has started leasing space in his jail to house an average of 150 immigrants a night for federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement. He also sent *17 jail deputies for training in immigration procedures* so they can *initiate deportations without waiting for federal agents.* 

"I feel like *we're truly contributing to (solving) a national problem*," said Maketa, one of* 67 law enforcement agency chiefs nationwide *who have had *deputies authorized to enforce federal immigration laws. *

El Paso jail locks in feds' funding - The Denver Post


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## LilOlLady

EFFECTIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM

Admitting past mistakes key to effective immigration reform 
March 29th, 2010- by Julie Myers Wood 


Second, any reform effort must clearly support and fund our enforcement agencies to ensure full compliance of our immigration laws going forward. For the last several decades, immigration agencies have been woefully understaffed, given their significant mission. ICE has only 6,000 agents, for example, far less than several city police departments, but the agency has a nationwide mission to combat immigration and customs violations. To compound the staffing challenges, if new legislation provides additional opportunities for adjustment, there will be significant attempts to fraudulently adjust. Congress must consider the necessary enforcement footprint that will be required following reform to avoid the failures of the past.

The activity this past week shows that there is potential to make progress on reform. However, as a former enforcement chief and veteran of the last debate, I can say with certainty that failure to acknowledge and address the incomplete enforcement efforts of previous legislation will do little to truly reform our laws.

Read more:  
Admitting past mistakes key to effective immigration reform | Security Debrief - a blog of homeland security news and analysis


----------



## Stephanie

Well hell then. we should just TEAR down all the jails and let ALL criminals who commit a crime, even murder, just say I'M SORRY and then let them all back onto the streets.


----------



## LilOlLady

I wonder how many ICE agents are in Arizona. 50 years ago, I watch my neighbor shoot up on herion and watch drugs come in from Mexico carried by wetbacks and destroy the town. Eloy, Arizona in Pinal County has been on the news lately. Eloy have drug addicts that are 70 years old or older.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil,
but because of those who look on and do nothing.&#8221; *


----------



## Bullfighter

LilOlLady said:


> I wonder how many ICE agents are in Arizona. 50 years ago, I watch my neighbor shoot up on herion and watch drugs come in from Mexico carried by wetbacks and destroy the town. Eloy, Arizona in Pinal County has been on the news lately. Eloy have drug addicts that are 70 years old or older.
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil,
> but because of those who look on and do nothing. *



How about all those American towns of literary fame like John Steinbeck's Salinas, California. It has been turned into a Mexican gang banger cesspool.


----------



## Gunny

LilOlLady said:


> *DEPUTIES AUTHORIZED
> TO ENFORCE IMMIGRATION LAWS
> 
> El Paso jail locks in feds' funding
> Immigration enforcement yields new revenue during tight times.
> By Bruce Finley*
> The Denver Post
> 
> Maketa has started leasing space in his jail to house an average of 150 immigrants a night for federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement. He also sent *17 jail deputies for training in immigration procedures* so they can *initiate deportations without waiting for federal agents.*
> 
> "I feel like *we're truly contributing to (solving) a national problem*," said Maketa, one of* 67 law enforcement agency chiefs nationwide *who have had *deputies authorized to enforce federal immigration laws. *
> 
> El Paso jail locks in feds' funding - The Denver Post



Good.  Illegal immigrants are criminal by the very nature of being illegal immigrants.


----------



## Gunny

LilOlLady said:


> EFFECTIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM
> 
> Admitting past mistakes key to effective immigration reform
> March 29th, 2010- by Julie Myers Wood
> 
> 
> Second, any reform effort must clearly support and fund our enforcement agencies to ensure full compliance of our immigration laws going forward. For the last several decades, immigration agencies have been woefully understaffed, given their significant mission. ICE has only 6,000 agents, for example, far less than several city police departments, but the agency has a nationwide mission to combat immigration and customs violations. To compound the staffing challenges, if new legislation provides additional opportunities for adjustment, there will be significant attempts to fraudulently adjust. Congress must consider the necessary enforcement footprint that will be required following reform to avoid the failures of the past.
> 
> The activity this past week shows that there is potential to make progress on reform. However, as a former enforcement chief and veteran of the last debate, I can say with certainty that failure to acknowledge and address the incomplete enforcement efforts of previous legislation will do little to truly reform our laws.
> 
> Read more:
> Admitting past mistakes key to effective immigration reform | Security Debrief - a blog of homeland security news and analysis



We don't need reform.  We need enforcement of standing laws.


----------



## Terral

Hi Lady:



LilOlLady said:


> EFFECTIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM
> 
> Admitting past mistakes key to effective immigration reform
> March 29th, 2010- by Julie Myers Wood



No Lady!!! You appear to be falling into the Open Border Lobby Trap by saying we need "Effective Immigration Reform." NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! The simple solution from the very beginning has been to force the Bush/Obama Administrations into ENFORCING our perfectly good Immigration, Employment and Document Fraud Laws already on the books!!!! The USA has been through ALL of this Immigration Reform already, which gave us the *Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986* (Wiki). 

The USA already gave up to 3 Million Illegal Aliens "Amnesty" under the strict condition that we ... NEVER ... DO ... THIS ... AGAIN!!!! The U.S. Government promised to ENFORCE OUR LAWS and to go after anyone 'hiring' the Illegal Aliens and anyone 'harboring' Illegal Aliens and anyone 'aiding and abetting' Illegal Aliens and anyone 'renting' to Illegal Aliens. However, we have literally thousands of Illegal Aliens using the same Social Security Number and nobody in so-called "Law Enforcement" cuckoo can find them.



LilOlLady said:


> Second, any reform effort must clearly support and fund our enforcement agencies to ensure full compliance of our immigration laws going forward.



NOOOOOOOO!!!!! Both Houses of Congress and the out-of-control Obama Fascist Regime cannot be trusted to ENFORCE our current Immigration, Employment and Document Fraud Laws, which means they have NO Credibility (ZERO) to create a new set of laws that nobody is going to enforce! Again, we gave up to 3 MILLION Illegal Aliens 'Amnesty' in 1986 and NOBODY is enforcing those laws!!!! The USA created a Department of Homeland Insecurity 'and' all of those bureaucrats simply look the other way and refuse to ENFORCE our perfectly good Immigration, Employment and Document Fraud Laws already on the books!  



LilOlLady said:


> For the last several decades, immigration agencies have been woefully understaffed, given their significant mission. ICE has only 6,000 agents, for example, far less than several city police departments, but the agency has a nationwide mission to combat immigration and customs violations.



This is all NONSENSE and utter STUPIDITY for anyone to believe this Open Border Lobby Disinformation Propaganda!! Arizona wants to ENFORCE Federal Immigration, Employment and Document Fraud Laws, but Obama and his Fascists are bringing lawsuits against States simply trying to protect their citizens from Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals that are running around loose EVERYWHERE. The biggest 'employer' of Illegal Aliens is the Federal Government that chooses to pick around American Citizens for cheap illegal labor!!!  There is no such thing as 'Effective Immigration Reform' when nobody is willing to ENFORCE laws already on the books! Period! 



LilOlLady said:


> To compound the staffing challenges, if new legislation provides additional opportunities for adjustment, there will be significant attempts to fraudulently adjust. Congress must consider the necessary enforcement footprint that will be required following reform to avoid the failures of the past.



No sir. This is more Open Border Lobby "Trust The Govt" Propaganda, when our corrupt bought-and-paid-for politicians have NO intention of enforcing current laws and NO intention of enforcing any new laws, after handing out Illegal Amnesty to 20 to 30 Million goddamned Illegal Aliens as a reward for stealing American identities and JOBS. Enforcing our laws begins AT ... THE ... WORKPLACE and that enforcement begins NOW according to our perfectly good Immigration, Employment and Document Fraud Laws already on the books! 



LilOlLady said:


> The activity this past week shows that there is potential to make progress on reform. However, as a former enforcement chief and veteran of the last debate, I can say with certainty that failure to acknowledge and address the incomplete enforcement efforts of previous legislation will do little to truly reform our laws.



This is utter NONSENSE!!!!! The "Legislation" (Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986) is just fine, but nobody is ENFORCING the provisions of that Law!!! Enforcement is the job of the Obama Administration that will continue looking the other way no matter what anyone says! Both Houses of Congress are supposed to be providing Congressional Oversight that forces the Obama Administration into enforcing those Laws, but everyone is looking the other way! Handing out Illegal Amnesty to 3 Million Illegal Aliens in 1986 gave us 20 to 30 Million Illegal Aliens!! Do the math! 

Handing out Illegal Amnesty to those 'hiring' the goddamned Illegal Aliens will give us 100,000 Illegal Aliens 'and' everyone will continue looking the other way ...

GL,

Terral


----------



## LilOlLady

*SB1070 DO NOT TARGET OR PROFILE*

SB1070 do not *target or profile Hispanics looking and Spanish speaking people *who may be legal. If you are an immigrant with *a green card or a drivers license *and you are stopped on a traffic violations show them and be on your way. Now if you are here *illegally and is stopped on a traffic violation and do not have a green card or a drivers license that is reasonable suspicion to ask you citizenship status in the country *and your ass is *up the creek and on the next bus*.

If you are an illegal alien, Hispanic looking and speak Spanish and *do not drive or caught committing a crime *you ass is *safe from SB1070.*

SB1070 do not require legal immigrants to carry* a briefcase full of papers *to show they are legal. Legal immigrants can get a* drivers license*. Legal immigrants can carry a gre*en card.*

Allegations by illegal immigrant supporters and Obama that you will be stopped going to the ice cream parlor with your anchor babies is a* lie and fear mongering *and a weak as water *excuse for not enforcing our immigration laws*.

With only 6,000 ICE agents nationwide, they need all the help they can get from state and local officials. It is *anti-American to sue the very people ICE and our government fail to protect from illegal immigration*. Obama is more concern about protecting citizens of other countries than American citizens.

*Those who oppose SB1070 oppose immigration enforcement.  
Immigration Reform mean only one thing to Obamanites and that is votes.*


----------



## LilOlLady

*Terral, can you read?*


----------



## LilOlLady

6,000 ICE agent cannot enforce our immigration laws. Immigration reform should be more *ICE agents and more border agents to get their jobs done*. The real problem start when those get past border agent and go into our cities.


----------



## Charles_Main

When Liberals say Immigration reform what they mean is. We have to let way more people come here legally, whether we can support them, or need them or not. There answer to the problem of so many people wanting to come here from Mexico, is simply to let them come legally, and give citizenship to the ones already here. 

The problem is we can not support taking in as many as they want. We are letting 1 Million people from Mexico and central America come here legally every year as it is, and we import 800 guest workers each year as well. The problem is of course that 10 Million plus Americans are looking for work they can not find. We can not support the whole world. When times are good and we can support taking in more we should, but when times are tough, we should not have to agree to take in even more in order to get our President, Who is suppose to protect us, to even talk about beefing up Border Security.

The Fact the Obama is holding the Border Hostage and demanding Comprehensive reform before acting on the border. Is despicable, Low even for a left winger.


----------



## ConHog

Gunny said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *DEPUTIES AUTHORIZED
> TO ENFORCE IMMIGRATION LAWS
> 
> El Paso jail locks in feds' funding
> Immigration enforcement yields new revenue during tight times.
> By Bruce Finley*
> The Denver Post
> 
> Maketa has started leasing space in his jail to house an average of 150 immigrants a night for federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement. He also sent *17 jail deputies for training in immigration procedures* so they can *initiate deportations without waiting for federal agents.*
> 
> "I feel like *we're truly contributing to (solving) a national problem*," said Maketa, one of* 67 law enforcement agency chiefs nationwide *who have had *deputies authorized to enforce federal immigration laws. *
> 
> El Paso jail locks in feds' funding - The Denver Post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good.  Illegal immigrants are criminal by the very nature of being illegal immigrants.
Click to expand...


Not according to Ravi


----------



## Brubricker




----------



## hortysir




----------



## ConHog

Gunny said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> EFFECTIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM
> 
> Admitting past mistakes key to effective immigration reform
> March 29th, 2010- by Julie Myers Wood
> 
> 
> Second, any reform effort must clearly support and fund our enforcement agencies to ensure full compliance of our immigration laws going forward. For the last several decades, immigration agencies have been woefully understaffed, given their significant mission. ICE has only 6,000 agents, for example, far less than several city police departments, but the agency has a nationwide mission to combat immigration and customs violations. To compound the staffing challenges, if new legislation provides additional opportunities for adjustment, there will be significant attempts to fraudulently adjust. Congress must consider the necessary enforcement footprint that will be required following reform to avoid the failures of the past.
> 
> The activity this past week shows that there is potential to make progress on reform. However, as a former enforcement chief and veteran of the last debate, I can say with certainty that failure to acknowledge and address the incomplete enforcement efforts of previous legislation will do little to truly reform our laws.
> 
> Read more:
> Admitting past mistakes key to effective immigration reform | Security Debrief - a blog of homeland security news and analysis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We don't need reform.  We need enforcement of standing laws.
Click to expand...


No shit, welfare reform is code word for let them all in


----------



## Gunny

LilOlLady said:


> 6,000 ICE agent cannot enforce our immigration laws. Immigration reform should be more *ICE agents and more border agents to get their jobs done*. The real problem start when those get past border agent and go into our cities.



Wrong.  They don't do their jobs.  They turn a blind eye, and the Fed Gov't turns a blind eye to them.  

What should be and what is are two different things.  Live in a border state do you?  I know what I SEE.


----------



## Gunny

LilOlLady said:


> *SB1070 DO NOT TARGET OR PROFILE*
> 
> SB1070 do not *target or profile Hispanics looking and Spanish speaking people *who may be legal. If you are an immigrant with *a green card or a drivers license *and you are stopped on a traffic violations show them and be on your way. Now if you are here *illegally and is stopped on a traffic violation and do not have a green card or a drivers license that is reasonable suspicion to ask you citizenship status in the country *and your ass is *up the creek and on the next bus*.
> 
> If you are an illegal alien, Hispanic looking and speak Spanish and *do not drive or caught committing a crime *you ass is *safe from SB1070.*
> 
> SB1070 do not require legal immigrants to carry* a briefcase full of papers *to show they are legal. Legal immigrants can get a* drivers license*. Legal immigrants can carry a gre*en card.*
> 
> Allegations by illegal immigrant supporters and Obama that you will be stopped going to the ice cream parlor with your anchor babies is a* lie and fear mongering *and a weak as water *excuse for not enforcing our immigration laws*.
> 
> With only 6,000 ICE agents nationwide, they need all the help they can get from state and local officials. It is *anti-American to sue the very people ICE and our government fail to protect from illegal immigration*. Obama is more concern about protecting citizens of other countries than American citizens.
> 
> *Those who oppose SB1070 oppose immigration enforcement.
> Immigration Reform mean only one thing to Obamanites and that is votes.*



Bullshit again.  Do you have a brain, or just like posting mindless stuff?  Illegal immigrants aren't that hard to spot.  Being PC and denying that certain people fit certain stereotypes is again, bullshit.


----------



## LilOlLady

IMMIGRATION REFORM; OBAMA.S BIG LIE.

It sounds simple but I dont believe Obama have a clue how to put into operation it. Like no clue how to put into operation the new healthcare plan. He just got it passed and the chips fall were they may. Immigrations reform will end up being blanket amnesty. He never actually say how it will be executed.
--What does been in the country a long time mean? 1,5,10,15,20 years? What happens to those who have not been in the country a long time.? Are they rounded up and sent home or left in the shadows? What is the statue of limitation of illegal? When has eluding a crime for years excuse the crime?
--What happens to those that have criminal records and do not come out of the shadows? And may have spouses and children? Will they be excused of their crimes and get to stay with their families or will they be deported?
--How do you do a back ground check on someone who has 5 alias and 5 social security numbers? When these people get old enough to get social security, it will be a nightmare for social security administration.
--When and how do they pay a fine and how much? And if and when they want to become citizens? What if they do not want to become citizens and just want to be legalized?
--How do they pay back taxes on money paid to them under the table? An amount cannot be estimated so it will never happen.
--Go to the back of the line. For what? And why should they care?

Immigration Reform cannot successfully be implemented and therefore cannot work and the only other thing to do is deportation by attrition. Over the past two years, more than 40 local and state governments have passed ordinances and legislation aimed at making life miserable for illegal immigrants in the hope that theyll have no choice but to return to their countries of origin. Deportation by attrition. Immigration Reform will be blanket amnesty or not at all. 
They may have been created equal but illegal aliens are criminals and criminals have not equal to law abiding citizens. All men are created equal but all men are not treated equal. Criminal behavior is not excused because all men are created equal.


----------



## Tank

Can white people evolve the mental facilities of these Hispanics in time to save America from becoming just another Hispanic country?

I think not.


----------



## LilOlLady

Gunny said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *SB1070 DO NOT TARGET OR PROFILE*
> 
> SB1070 do not *target or profile Hispanics looking and Spanish speaking people *who may be legal. If you are an immigrant with *a green card or a drivers license *and you are stopped on a traffic violations show them and be on your way. Now if you are here *illegally and is stopped on a traffic violation and do not have a green card or a drivers license that is reasonable suspicion to ask you citizenship status in the country *and your ass is *up the creek and on the next bus*.
> 
> If you are an illegal alien, Hispanic looking and speak Spanish and *do not drive or caught committing a crime *you ass is *safe from SB1070.*
> 
> SB1070 do not require legal immigrants to carry* a briefcase full of papers *to show they are legal. Legal immigrants can get a* drivers license*. Legal immigrants can carry a gre*en card.*
> 
> Allegations by illegal immigrant supporters and Obama that you will be stopped going to the ice cream parlor with your anchor babies is a* lie and fear mongering *and a weak as water *excuse for not enforcing our immigration laws*.
> 
> With only 6,000 ICE agents nationwide, they need all the help they can get from state and local officials. It is *anti-American to sue the very people ICE and our government fail to protect from illegal immigration*. Obama is more concern about protecting citizens of other countries than American citizens.
> 
> *Those who oppose SB1070 oppose immigration enforcement.
> Immigration Reform mean only one thing to Obamanites and that is votes.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit again.  Do you have a brain, or just like posting mindless stuff?  Illegal immigrants aren't that hard to spot.  Being PC and denying that certain people fit certain stereotypes is again, bullshit.
Click to expand...


AND YOU STILL CANNOT READ AND COMPREHEND.


----------



## LilOlLady

Terral said:


> Hi Lady:
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> EFFECTIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM
> 
> Admitting past mistakes key to effective immigration reform
> March 29th, 2010- by Julie Myers Wood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No Lady!!! You appear to be falling into the Open Border Lobby Trap by saying we need "Effective Immigration Reform." NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! The simple solution from the very beginning has been to force the Bush/Obama Administrations into ENFORCING our perfectly good Immigration, Employment and Document Fraud Laws already on the books!!!! The USA has been through ALL of this Immigration Reform already, which gave us the *Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986* (Wiki).
> 
> The USA already gave up to 3 Million Illegal Aliens "Amnesty" under the strict condition that we ... NEVER ... DO ... THIS ... AGAIN!!!! The U.S. Government promised to ENFORCE OUR LAWS and to go after anyone 'hiring' the Illegal Aliens and anyone 'harboring' Illegal Aliens and anyone 'aiding and abetting' Illegal Aliens and anyone 'renting' to Illegal Aliens. However, we have literally thousands of Illegal Aliens using the same Social Security Number and nobody in so-called "Law Enforcement" cuckoo can find them.
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> Second, any reform effort must clearly support and fund our enforcement agencies to ensure full compliance of our immigration laws going forward.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> NOOOOOOOO!!!!! Both Houses of Congress and the out-of-control Obama Fascist Regime cannot be trusted to ENFORCE our current Immigration, Employment and Document Fraud Laws, which means they have NO Credibility (ZERO) to create a new set of laws that nobody is going to enforce! Again, we gave up to 3 MILLION Illegal Aliens 'Amnesty' in 1986 and NOBODY is enforcing those laws!!!! The USA created a Department of Homeland Insecurity 'and' all of those bureaucrats simply look the other way and refuse to ENFORCE our perfectly good Immigration, Employment and Document Fraud Laws already on the books!
> 
> 
> 
> This is all NONSENSE and utter STUPIDITY for anyone to believe this Open Border Lobby Disinformation Propaganda!! Arizona wants to ENFORCE Federal Immigration, Employment and Document Fraud Laws, but Obama and his Fascists are bringing lawsuits against States simply trying to protect their citizens from Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals that are running around loose EVERYWHERE. The biggest 'employer' of Illegal Aliens is the Federal Government that chooses to pick around American Citizens for cheap illegal labor!!!  There is no such thing as 'Effective Immigration Reform' when nobody is willing to ENFORCE laws already on the books! Period!
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> To compound the staffing challenges, if new legislation provides additional opportunities for adjustment, there will be significant attempts to fraudulently adjust. Congress must consider the necessary enforcement footprint that will be required following reform to avoid the failures of the past.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No sir. This is more Open Border Lobby "Trust The Govt" Propaganda, when our corrupt bought-and-paid-for politicians have NO intention of enforcing current laws and NO intention of enforcing any new laws, after handing out Illegal Amnesty to 20 to 30 Million goddamned Illegal Aliens as a reward for stealing American identities and JOBS. Enforcing our laws begins AT ... THE ... WORKPLACE and that enforcement begins NOW according to our perfectly good Immigration, Employment and Document Fraud Laws already on the books!
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> The activity this past week shows that there is potential to make progress on reform. However, as a former enforcement chief and veteran of the last debate, I can say with certainty that failure to acknowledge and address the incomplete enforcement efforts of previous legislation will do little to truly reform our laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is utter NONSENSE!!!!! The "Legislation" (Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986) is just fine, but nobody is ENFORCING the provisions of that Law!!! Enforcement is the job of the Obama Administration that will continue looking the other way no matter what anyone says! Both Houses of Congress are supposed to be providing Congressional Oversight that forces the Obama Administration into enforcing those Laws, but everyone is looking the other way! Handing out Illegal Amnesty to 3 Million Illegal Aliens in 1986 gave us 20 to 30 Million Illegal Aliens!! Do the math!
> 
> Handing out Illegal Amnesty to those 'hiring' the goddamned Illegal Aliens will give us 100,000 Illegal Aliens 'and' everyone will continue looking the other way ...
> 
> GL,
> 
> Terral
Click to expand...



WHAT GRADE SCHOOL DO YOU ATTEND, TERRAL?


----------



## LilOlLady

*ILLEGAL ALIENS; 
WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION.*

The Dark Side Of Illegal Immigration

Facts, Figures And Statistics On Illegal Immigration

Impacts of Illegal Immigration: Jobs



Introduction

Forward

The Dark Side Of Illegal Immigration 

Impacts Of Illegal Immigration: Terrorism

Impacts Of Illegal Immigration: Crime 

Impacts of Illegal Immigration: Sex Crimes

 Impacts of Illegal Immigration: Property Crimes And Operation Predator

Impacts of Illegal Immigration: Gangs

Impacts of Illegal Immigration: Crime Summary 

Impacts of Illegal Immigration: Traffic Accidents

Impacts of Illegal Immigration: Cultural Difference 

The Balkanization Of America

Impacts of Illegal Immigration: Education

Impacts of Illegal Immigration: Diseases

Impacts of Illegal Immigration: Jobs

Impacts of Illegal Immigration: Abuse Of The Guest Worker Program

Impacts of Illegal Immigration: American Infrastructure

Impacts of Illegal Immigration: Economic Costs

The Costs of Illegal Immigration

Should We Grant An Amnesty?

The North American Union And The Security And Prosperity Partnership

Recipe For Disaster: How To Destroy America

Border Security And The Border Fence 

Solutions To The Illegal Immigration Problem 

More Realistic Solutions To The Illegal Immigration Problem

How You Can Take Action

More Information

Immigration Facts, Figures And Addendum


----------



## LilOlLady

*OBAMA RESPONSIBLE FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS DEATHS.*
His promise of amnesty has caused an increase in crossing and deaths.

*Deaths During Illegal Border Crossings Increase*

Medical Examiners Sort Through Remains For Identification
Elizabeth Erwin
Reporter, KPHO.com 
POSTED: 4:55 pm MST June 30, 2010 
UPDATED: 11:12 am MST July 1, 2010 

PIMA COUNTY, Ariz. -- Lockers inside the Pima County Medical Examiner's building are full of the personal belongings of those who died trying to cross the U.S.-Mexico border.
Deaths During Illegal Border Crossings Increase - Phoenix News Story - KPHO Phoenix


----------



## Coyote

LilOlLady said:


> *OBAMA RESPONSIBLE FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS DEATHS.*
> His promise of amnesty has caused an increase in crossing and deaths.
> 
> *Deaths During Illegal Border Crossings Increase*
> 
> Medical Examiners Sort Through Remains For Identification
> Elizabeth Erwin
> Reporter, KPHO.com
> POSTED: 4:55 pm MST June 30, 2010
> UPDATED: 11:12 am MST July 1, 2010
> 
> PIMA COUNTY, Ariz. -- Lockers inside the Pima County Medical Examiner's building are full of the personal belongings of those who died trying to cross the U.S.-Mexico border.
> Deaths During Illegal Border Crossings Increase - Phoenix News Story - KPHO Phoenix



Got any evidence to support that you old fraud?

The only thing the article said:

*The number of those dying*, he said, is growing* every year*. "So far this year we're up to about 94 people for the county here since Jan. 1," said Parks. He said the total number from last year was 160.​
The article only says there is an increase in deaths (over an unspecified number of years) and says nothing about an increase in "crossings".

The Obama administration has only just started tackling the immigration hot-potato, so any talk about possible "amnesty" is quite recent.


----------



## JBeukema

Oh, one-trick pony, you make it so hard, sometimes, to take you seriously.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Illegal Immigrants Returning To Mexico For American Jobs*
May 3, 2006 | ISSUE 4218 

MEXICO CITYAs *dozens of major American corporations *continue to move their manufacturing operations to Mexico, waves of job-seeking Mexican immigrants to the United States have begun making the deadly journey back across the border in search of *better-paying Mexican-based American jobs*.

"I came to this country seeking the job I sought when I first left this country," said Anuncio Reyes, 22, an undocumented worker who *recrossed the U.S. border *into Mexico last month, three years after leaving Mexico for the United States to work as an *agricultural day laborer. *"I spent everything I had *to get back here. Yes, it was dangerous, *and I miss my home. But as much as I love America, *I have to go where the best American jobs are."*
Illegal Immigrants Returning To Mexico For American Jobs | The Onion - America's Finest News Source


----------



## Big Black Dog

Hope they don't catch their asses on those barbed-wire fences on the way out.


----------



## LilOlLady

Coyote said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *OBAMA RESPONSIBLE FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS DEATHS.*
> His promise of amnesty has caused an increase in crossing and deaths.
> 
> *Deaths During Illegal Border Crossings Increase*
> 
> Medical Examiners Sort Through Remains For Identification
> Elizabeth Erwin
> Reporter, KPHO.com
> POSTED: 4:55 pm MST June 30, 2010
> UPDATED: 11:12 am MST July 1, 2010
> 
> PIMA COUNTY, Ariz. -- Lockers inside the Pima County Medical Examiner's building are full of the personal belongings of those who died *trying to cross the U.S.-Mexico border*.
> Deaths During Illegal Border Crossings Increase - Phoenix News Story - KPHO Phoenix
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got any evidence to support that you old fraud?
> 
> The only thing the article said:
> 
> *The number of those dying*, he said, is growing* every year*. "So far this year we're up to about 94 people for the county here since Jan. 1," said Parks. He said the total number from last year was 160.​
> The article only says there is an increase in deaths (over an unspecified number of years) and says nothing about an *increase in "crossings".*
> 
> The Obama administration has only just started tackling the immigration hot-potato, so any talk about possible *"amnesty" is quite recent*.
Click to expand...


Look at his history and he promised it during his campaign. duh?

POLL: AMNESTY WILL INCREASE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION  Oct 19, 2009 ... *After the last amnesty bill in 1986, the United States did indeed see a flood of illegal immigrants crossing the border*. ...
POLL: AMNESTY WILL INCREASE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION - Cached - Similar

30 million more since 1986


----------



## DiveCon

i'm not going to blame Obama for someone choosing to violate our borders and causing their own deaths


----------



## LilOlLady

I would like to see more* American companies *move to Mexico. They only hire Mexicans anyway. If they all go home, isn't that what we want.* Relief *for education, healthcare, welfare, law enforcement, etc. and maybe crime will be more *lucrative in *Mexico and *criminals *will leave also.


----------



## Big Black Dog

You can't fix stupid according to Ron White.  I think he's telling the truth.  If an illegal alien is stupid enough to hoof it across the dangerous terrain to enter the country illegally then he or she deserves whatever fate awaits them.  It isn't the US's problem that they die enroute to committing an illegal act.  It's the illegal aliens fault unless you don't believe people are responsible for their actions.


----------



## LilOlLady

DiveCon said:


> i'm not going to blame Obama for someone choosing to violate our borders and causing their own deaths



With his *promise of amnesty, *crossings has increased and deaths have increased with crossings. He is partially to blame. If he had not been elected, we may have someone who would enforce our immigration laws and they would not come here.


----------



## Coyote

LilOlLady said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *OBAMA RESPONSIBLE FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS DEATHS.*
> His promise of amnesty has caused an increase in crossing and deaths.
> 
> *Deaths During Illegal Border Crossings Increase*
> 
> Medical Examiners Sort Through Remains For Identification
> Elizabeth Erwin
> Reporter, KPHO.com
> POSTED: 4:55 pm MST June 30, 2010
> UPDATED: 11:12 am MST July 1, 2010
> 
> PIMA COUNTY, Ariz. -- Lockers inside the Pima County Medical Examiner's building are full of the personal belongings of those who died *trying to cross the U.S.-Mexico border*.
> Deaths During Illegal Border Crossings Increase - Phoenix News Story - KPHO Phoenix
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got any evidence to support that you old fraud?
> 
> The only thing the article said:
> 
> *The number of those dying*, he said, is growing* every year*. "So far this year we're up to about 94 people for the county here since Jan. 1," said Parks. He said the total number from last year was 160.​
> The article only says there is an increase in deaths (over an unspecified number of years) and says nothing about an *increase in "crossings".*
> 
> The Obama administration has only just started tackling the immigration hot-potato, so any talk about possible *"amnesty" is quite recent*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look at his history and he promised it during his campaign. duh?
> 
> POLL: AMNESTY WILL INCREASE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION  Oct 19, 2009 ... *After the last amnesty bill in 1986, the United States did indeed see a flood of illegal immigrants crossing the border*. ...
> POLL: AMNESTY WILL INCREASE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION - Cached - Similar
> 
> 30 million more since 1986
Click to expand...


Red herrings.

The article says nothing about an increase in illegal immigration numbers - only deaths.

Correlation doesn't necessarily equal causation.


----------



## Coyote

LilOlLady said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm not going to blame Obama for someone choosing to violate our borders and causing their own deaths
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With his *promise of amnesty, *crossings has increased and deaths have increased with crossings. He is partially to blame. If he had not been elected, we may have someone who would enforce our immigration laws and they would not come here.
Click to expand...


http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Societ...ion-down-because-of-economy-or-border-control


----------



## DiveCon

LilOlLady said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm not going to blame Obama for someone choosing to violate our borders and causing their own deaths
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With his *promise of amnesty, *crossings has increased and deaths have increased with crossings. He is partially to blame. If he had not been elected, we may have someone who would enforce our immigration laws and they would not come here.
Click to expand...

that still doesn't excuse the individuals responsibility
they CHOOSE to break the law


----------



## LilOlLady

Ravi;


&#8226;In Los Angeles, 95% of some 1,500 outstanding warrants for homicides are for illegal aliens. About 67% of the 17,000 outstanding fugitive felony warrants are for illegal aliens.
&#8226;There are currently over 400,000 unaccounted for illegal alien criminals with outstanding deportation orders. At least one fourth of these are hard core criminals.
&#8226;80,000 to 100,000 illegal aliens who have been convicted of serious crimes are walking the streets. Based on studies they will commit an average of 13 serious crimes per perpetrator.
&#8226;Illegal aliens are involved in criminal activities at a rate that is 2-5 times their representative proportion of the population.
&#8226;In 1980, our Federal and state facilities held fewer than 9,000 criminal aliens but at the end of 2003, approximately 267,000 illegal aliens were incarcerated in U.S. correctional facilities at a cost of about $6.8 billion per year. 
&#8226;At least 4.5 million pounds of cocaine with a street value of at least $72 billion is smuggled across the southern border every year. ..
&#8226;56% of illegal aliens charged with a reentry offense had previously been convicted on at least 5 prior occasions. 
&#8226;Illegal aliens charged with unlawful reentry had the most extensive criminal histories. 90% had been previously arrested. Of those with a prior arrest, 50% had been arrested for violent or drug-related felonies.
&#8226;Illegal aliens commit between 700,000 to 1,289,000 or more crimes per year. 
&#8226;Illegal aliens commit at least 2,158 murders each year &#8211; a number that represents three times greater participation than their proportion of the population.
&#8226;Illegal alien sexual predators commit an estimated 130,909 sexual crimes each year.
&#8226;There may be as many as 240,000 illegal alien sex offenders circulating throughout America. Based on studies, they will commit an average of 8 sex crimes per perpetrator before being caught.
&#8226;Nearly 63% of illegal alien sex offenders had been deported on another offense prior to committing the sex crime.
&#8226;Only 2% of the illegal alien sex offenders in one study had no history of criminal behavior, beyond crossing the border illegally.
&#8226;In Operation Predator, ICE arrested and deported 6,085 illegal alien pedophiles. Some studies suggest each pedophile molests average of 148 children. If so, that could be as many as 900,580 victims.
&#8226;Nobody knows how big the Sex Slave problem is but it is enormous.
&#8226;The very brutal MS-13 gang has over 15,000 members and associates in at least 115 different cliques in 33 states.
&#8226;The overall financial impact of illegal alien crimes is estimated at between $14.4 and $81 billion or more per year. Factor in the crime as a result of the cocaine and other drugs being smuggled in and the number may reach $150 billion per year.


----------



## LilOlLady

THE ED SHOW


They want stop me say the fat a** white man of the ED SHOW today speaking about SB1070. Yes they will. If you run a stop sign, officers anywhere will stop you and ask for your documents, drivers license, registration and proof of insurance. And if you cannot  produce, you fat white a** may go to jail. Arizona officer stop anyone who violates a traffic law. If you cannot produce and is Hispanic looking, that is reasonable suspicion to ask your citizen status and 9 time out of 10 he or she is illegal. Officer will call in and if he cannot get info on the Hispanic? Reasonable suspicion. If he call in on the fat a** white man and get a verification, he will cite him and let him go. 9 times out of 10 he is not an illegal alien.

WHITE PEOPLE IN ARIZONA WILL BE STOPPED IF THEY VIOLATE A TRAFFIC LAW.


----------



## LilOlLady

*JOBS ILLEGALS WONT DO.*
http://www.takeourjobs.org/
Farm workers?challenge: You can have our jobs - Business - U.S. business - msnbc.com

*20 million illegal aliens are not picking lettuce in California and apples in Washington*. Arturo Rodriquez of come TakeOurJobs say illegal aliens are doing jobs Americans will not do. He invited Americans to pick lettuce and he only got three.  *According to the Labor Department, three out of four farm workers were born abroad, and more than half are illegal immigrants.  *He lied. Id like to know *how many illegals he asked working in the inner cities doing jobs Americans will do and how many he got*?
I have no problem with *20 million illegals in this country picking lettuce and apples*. But I do with them *taking jobs Americans will do*. Illegal aliens do not want to pick lettuce and apples either.  Illegal aliens *rather leave and go back to Mexico *then work in the California fields.

*And he said *he would be stopped if he was in Arizona and he was born here. If he violated a traffic law, he would be stopped anywhere in this country. And if he did not have drivers license which takes a birth certificate to get, the officer would call in and verify that he did have one and cite him to appear in court with the driver license and he would be on his way. But if an illegal alien were stopped running a stop sign and did not have a drivers license and officer could not verify he had one, that is reasonable suspicion that he is in the county illegally. If he did not drive he would need an DMV identification card. Any citizen in this county should have a drivers license or DMV identification and a valid social security card. If he do not he is 9 times out of 10 an illegal alien.


ARTURO RODRIQUEZ IS A LIAR


----------



## LilOlLady

AFTER COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM

After Comprehensive Immigration Reform, Obama will secure the border. He will crack down on employers that hire illegal aliens. After CIR there will not be any illegal aliens to speak of. They will all be legal.
What happens to an illegal aliens after CIR if he commits a crime? Stripped of his or here legal status and deported? In most states, an illegal aliens has to commit a crime before his status in this country is questioned.
After CIR and 20 million are legalized, we start all over again because they will still be crossing illegally. Unless CIR wipes out the Federal Immigration and Nationality Act and crossing the border will no longer be illegal.


----------



## editec

NAFTA is largely responsible for the acceleration of illegals coming into this nation, folks.

 NAFTA put more Mexicans out of work (from small farms) than it put Mexicans into (formerly American) factory jobs.


----------



## LilOlLady

I guess Arturo has never watched &#8220;Dirty Jobs.&#8221; All Americans are not sitting in cushy climate control office in suits and ties and high hilled shoes. All across this country they are doing dirty and dangerous jobs in extreme heat and cold and they don&#8217;t complain. How many illegal aliens could you get to work in coal and salt mines?


----------



## Tank

Becoming legal is a job they won't do,


----------



## LilOlLady

*FEDERAL IMMIGRATION & NATIONALITY ACT;
NOT BROKEN.*

*Our immigration enforcement laws target illegal aliens*. Duh? Isnt that what it is supposed to do? Our immigration enforcement laws are not broken. If works well if it is enforced*. If its not enforced, it does not work.* And that is what the Obamanites want. Change the Federal Immigration and Nationality Act if our government dont want to recognize it and enforce it. 
*Things like SB1070 happens when the Feds dont do their job.*We must secure our border and we must secure inside our borders. Security does not end AT the border, it begins at the border. Our *southern border has moved 80 miles inland *because the border has not been secured.

80 Miles Of Arizona / Mexico Border Under Mexican Drug Cartel Control
80 Miles Of Arizona / Mexico Border Under Mexican Drug Cartel Control  Pobept&#039;s World View


----------



## LilOlLady

ICE Raids Go Silent
ICE Raids Go Silent | Newsroom News

The federal government has changed its approach to immigration raids at factories and farms. Instead of busting their way into workplaces, Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents are now scouring employment records that then can result in the firing of undocumented workers. &#8212;JCL




Napolitano orders review of raid at Wash. plant
By MANUEL VALDES &#8211; 1 hour ago
http://immigrationmexicanamerican.blogs ... didnt.html

SEATTLE (AP) &#8212; Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano has ordered a review of a raid at a Washington manufacturing plant that ended with the arrests of 28 illegal immigrants. Homeland Security spokesman Sean Smith says Napolitano wants to know why Tuesday's raid occurred and what led up to it.
She asked ICE to send her details about it today so she could review why it was carried out. In her testimony, she said enforcement should target employers and felonious criminals versus targeting workers


----------



## LilOlLady

BILL O'REILLY RAGES:* ILLEGAL ALIENS COMMIT HEINOUS CRIMES *
By Frosty Wooldridge
April 9, 2007 
NewsWithViews.com

Did you see O'Reilly's neck-veins bursting? His eyes bulging? His fingers pointing like daggers? Did you witness his unbridled rage exploding as he hammered the truth back at Geraldo Rivera on Fox News last week: THE O'REILLY FACTOR ? 

"HE IS AN ILLEGAL ALIEN!" screamed Bill O'Reilly. "He had a D.U.I and should have been deported! These Americans wouldn't have died if the government deported illegals!" 
One-of five crimes in the U.S. is committed by a member of an illegal alien family. 
Frosty Wooldridge -- Bill O'Reilly rages: Illegal aliens commit heinous crimes
*
How do you go after illegal alien criminals if you cannot go after illegal aliens? If there were no illegal aliens in this country, there would be no illegal aliens criminals. *

___________________________________________________

"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil,
but because of those who look on and do nothing.


----------



## The Infidel

_"We suffer methodical killings, rapes, displacement and overruning by illegal aliens&#8212;from Mexico. As many as 8 percent of the almost 20-28 million illegal aliens here now run amok&#8212; killing, raping and maiming our wives, husbands, daughters, sons and grand parents. A member of an illegal alien family commits one&#8211;of-five crimes in the United States today. 

Geraldo brazenly minimized this carnage, and tried to justify the actions of the illegal aliens. 

More than twenty times as many deaths and injuries to Americans occur from rampant behaviors by illegal aliens than all the U.S. combat deaths and injuries in the war zones of Iraq and Afghanistan. 

*Where is YOUR rage?* 

When was the last time you heard that "news" from NBC, CBS, ABC, PBS, CSPAN, or any media outlet&#8212; anywhere ? 

Bill O'Reilly reminded us&#8212; Fox News also needs a Lou Dobbs on its staff! In fact, every media outlet in our nation needs to take a hard look in the mirror, get rid of the slants and bias, and restore balance to their reporting. 

Rampant criminal behaviors by members of illegal alien families continues unabated. "_






So true


----------



## topspin

Do any libtards think we are getting Mexico's best and brightest?


----------



## R.C. Christian

Yes, they're obviously coming over to steal shit from you, rape your wife, and probably kill you. They're inately subhuman after all!


----------



## 2Parties

I'll take a crazy Mexican running rampant over a polished boldfaced lying politician any day.

Far less harmful...


----------



## LilOlLady

E.J. Montini is a columnist for The Arizona Republic
.*Racial profiling legal says AZ prof *


One of the go-to experts in the SB 1070 debate has been Professor Gabriel Chin at the University of Arizona. 

In Tuesdays Washington Post, Chin and University of California Davis Professor Kevin Johnson argue that the U.S. Supreme Court and the Arizona State Supreme Court have allowed racial profiling when it comes to immigration enforcement. (Read their essay here.)
azcentral.com blogs - E.J. Montini's Columns & Blog - EJMontini - Racial profiling legal says AZ prof


----------



## LilOlLady

"Until white canadians, french, english, dutch, ukrainians etc are detained on reasonable suspicion that they are in the country illegally then SB1070 will persist as a conservative republican fraud.  This law might as well be called "If you're brown get out of town," because let us be honest; we dont care about non mexican immigrants"


when was the last time, other than Hispanic, one of the others have committed a crime in your city? Never in Reno. Every week a Mexican is involved in a shooting, stabbing, mugging, robbery, car jacking, drug dealing, etc.; I had all but forgotten about the "others" Who is causing most of the problems in this country?


----------



## LilOlLady

*What does the Bible say about illegal immigration?*
What does the Bible say about illegal immigration?



The vast majority of illegal immigrants in the United States have come for the purpose of having a better life, providing for their families, and escaping from poverty. These are good goals and motivations. However, it is not biblical to violate a law to achieve something "good." Caring for the poor, orphans, and widows is something the Bible commands us to do (Galatians 2:10; James 1:27; 2:2-15). However, the biblical fact that we are to care for the misfortunate does not mean we should violate the law in doing so. Supporting, enabling, and/or encouraging illegal immigration is, therefore, also a violation of God's Word. Those seeking to immigrate to another country should always obey the immigration laws of that country. While this may cause delays and frustrations, these reasons do not give a person the right to violate a law.

_________________________________________________________
*"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil,
but because of those who look on and do nothing.*


----------



## manifold

It's only illegal if you get caught.


----------



## manifold

You have to be a real doucher to buy into this bullshit! 



> Romans 13:1-7 makes it abundantly clear that God expects us to obey the laws of the government. The only exception to this is when a law of the government forces you to disobey a command of God (Acts 5:29). The underground railroad was the breaking of a governmental law. There is nothing in Scripture that contradicts a nation having slavery laws. Therefore, it is a sin, rebellion against God, to illegally help slaves escape bondage.
> 
> Caring for the needy is something the Bible commands us to do (Galatians 2:10; James 1:27; 2:2-15). However, the biblical fact that we are to care for the misfortunate does not mean we should violate the law in doing so. Supporting, enabling, and/or encouraging slaves to escape to the north via the underground railroad was, therefore, also a violation of God's Word.


----------



## Douger

LilOlLady said:


> *What does the Bible say about illegal immigration?*
> What does the Bible say about illegal immigration?
> 
> 
> 
> The vast majority of illegal immigrants in the United States have come for the purpose of having a better life, providing for their families, and escaping from poverty. These are good goals and motivations. However, it is not biblical to violate a law to achieve something "good." Caring for the poor, orphans, and widows is something the Bible commands us to do (Galatians 2:10; James 1:27; 2:2-15). However, the biblical fact that we are to care for the misfortunate does not mean we should violate the law in doing so. Supporting, enabling, and/or encouraging illegal immigration is, therefore, also a violation of God's Word. Those seeking to immigrate to another country should always obey the immigration laws of that country. While this may cause delays and frustrations, these reasons do not give a person the right to violate a law.
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> *"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil,
> but because of those who look on and do nothing.*



That's because the bible was written by a govt and for all govts.
King James was the head architect of your current brainwashed enslavement.


----------



## manifold

...that Rosa Parks was sinning against God when she refused to go to the back of the bus?

True story


----------



## manifold

Yup, that's right, The Founding Fathers were all committing sins against God when they rebelled against their oppresive government.

Same goes for those immoral French Revolutionaries.  Wretched sinners, every last one of them.


----------



## LilOlLady

Douger said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *What does the Bible say about illegal immigration?*
> What does the Bible say about illegal immigration?
> 
> 
> 
> The vast majority of illegal immigrants in the United States have come for the purpose of having a better life, providing for their families, and escaping from poverty. These are good goals and motivations. However, it is not biblical to violate a law to achieve something "good." Caring for the poor, orphans, and widows is something the Bible commands us to do (Galatians 2:10; James 1:27; 2:2-15). However, the biblical fact that we are to care for the misfortunate does not mean we should violate the law in doing so. Supporting, enabling, and/or encouraging illegal immigration is, therefore, also a violation of God's Word. Those seeking to immigrate to another country should always obey the immigration laws of that country. While this may cause delays and frustrations, these reasons do not give a person the right to violate a law.
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> *"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil,
> but because of those who look on and do nothing.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's because the bible was written by a govt and for all govts.
> King James was the head architect of your current brainwashed enslavement.
Click to expand...


There are other translations of the bible and King James version came much later  and had to be approved by King James and had his beliefs. such as hell, and should not be used is study of the bible. Many errors and they let to mis interpretations.  King James version is not really a translation.


----------



## LilOlLady

*OUR CITIZENSHIP IS NOT FOR SALE*

Human rights cannot be bought, sold or traded. This conferment of human dignity - i.e. one's place of birth, ethnicity, religion and personality and the human conscience choices made - cannot be bought or sold.

Both sides of the political divide now emerging in Malaysia must understand this fundamental principle.
Our citizenship is not for sale - Malaysiakini


*ST VINCENT: Prime Minister says citizenship not for sale*

KINGSTOWN, St. Vincent, CMC  The St. Vincent and the Grenadines government says it will not permit the sale of passports as an inducement to get foreigners to invest in the country.
Prime Minister Dr. Ralph Gonsalves told Parliament on Friday that his administration would no longer engage in the practice and would resist any attempts to do so.
A number of Eastern Caribbean countries had embarked on the citizenship scheme as a means of luring foreign investment to their countries.
ST VINCENT: Prime Minister says citizenship not for sale | Caribbean Daily News: Caribbean News Every Day


*Citizenship not for sale, *Fekter says
By Thomas Hochwarter

Minister warns as more Scheuch case claims emerge. 
Role of corruption prosecutors unclear.

Vienna. ÖVP Interior Minister Maria Fekter has warned that Austrian citi- zenship cannot be "bought amid claims FPK boss Uwe Scheuch promised easier citizenship proceedings in return for party donations. 
The minister said: "It is not possible to purchase Austrian citizenship.
ST VINCENT: Prime Minister says citizenship not for sale | Caribbean Daily News: Caribbean News Every Day


*IRISH CITIZENSHIP IS 'NOT FOR SALE'*
 Coughlan: I'll shut legal loopholes on chancers.(News)



Byline: SINEAD KING 
FAMILY Affairs Minister Mary Coughlan has launched a scathing attack on those trying to claim Irish citizenship through the back door. 
In an exclusive interview with the Irish People she admitted Ireland is now wide open to widespread abuse of its citizenship laws. 
But she declared that she will not stand by while Ireland's proud ancestry is put up for sale. 
Minister Coughlan spoke after a wealthy Chinese family specifically had their child born in Belfast and now plan to use a legal loophole to claim British - or Irish -  
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-117021068.html


_*Are we the only country that sell citizenship*_ (for $5,000).


----------



## LilOlLady

Is US citizenship for sale?

azcentral.com blogs - Laurie Roberts' Columns & Blog - LaurieRoberts - Is US citizenship for sale?


----------



## SW2SILVER

What does the bible say about...I don't know, how to gap your spark plugs or the mechanics of a quasar ? Not many answers in there. All I know is that illegal aliens hate America, they won't acclimate and they despise Anglos. Especially the ones that betray their own roots  for money. But illegals  don't mind (cynically)  taking a little abuse, it somehow legitimizes them. And it won't last long, they will out breed those wealthy greedy  Anglos. And, that is all it about. We die, they live. Great. And they all lived happily ever after&#8230;.


----------



## Bullfighter

> Deuteronomy:Chapter 28​
> 43 The alien residing among you will rise higher and higher above you, while you sink lower and lower.
> 
> 44 He will lend to you, not you to him. He will become the head, you the tail.
> 
> 45 "All these curses will come upon you, pursuing you and overwhelming you, until you are destroyed, because you would not hearken to the voice of the LORD, your God, nor keep the commandments and statutes he gave you.


As you can see. The bible sees the alien as an evil plague to be visited upon those who do not do God's will and defend America against the invasion.


----------



## 2Parties

That article deserves no response other than a facepalm...


----------



## LilOlLady

*ATF in Reno busts four on allegations they traded drugs for 26 guns and three silencers*
By Jaclyn OMalley  jomalley@rgj.com  July 15, 2010 

 Four men are facing federal charges after being arrested in an Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms sting where they* traded drugs and cash for more than two dozen firearms *they told agents *would be used during drug activity in Mexico*.

Charged on Monday with conspiracy to distribute a controlled substance were Rafael Arias, 24, Luis Eduardo Gonzalez-Luprecio, 23, Juan Burgueno, 25, and Baldemar Sanchez-Goana, 26.

They are facing a July 23 preliminary hearing in Reno federal court.
ATF in Reno busts four on allegations they traded drugs for 26 guns and three silencers | rgj.com | The Reno Gazette-Journal


----------



## LilOlLady

*Monitoring changes in Immigration Policy and Immigration Law ICE Begins Silent Raids,* Threatens the Jobs of Illegal Aliens
Posted on | July 14, 2010 | No Comments

On our Nevada immigration news blog we have covered extensively the politics of comprehensive immigration reform. Much of the political dialogue  even if it is not always grounded in reality  focuses on the impact of illegal immigrants on the economy, job markets, etc. The conventional wisdom is that illegal aliens take American jobs, even though this is supported neither by common sense nor by extensive labor statistics. Nonetheless, the Obama Administration and Democrats in Congress have felt strongly pushed to make enforcement of immigration laws the foundation of an attempt at a reform bill.
ICE Begins &#8220;Silent Raids,&#8221; Threatens the Jobs of Illegal Aliens | Las Vegas Family Immigration Blog


----------



## Mad Scientist

Harry Reid said there were no illegals in Nevada. And I believe him.


----------



## Tank

LilOlLady said:


> The conventional wisdom is that illegal aliens take American jobs, even though this is supported neither by common sense nor by extensive labor statistics.


If a illegal alien has a job in America, how is that not a American job?


----------



## RetiredGySgt

ILLEGAL says it all, get them the hell out of MY Country. They want in? Follow the rules like everyone else.


----------



## froggy

Mad Scientist said:


> Harry Reid said there were no illegals in Nevada. And I believe him.



Shallow!


----------



## daveman

> Silent Raids" THREATEN JOBS OF ILLEGALS



Funny how the Left doesn't want the US to be the world's policeman, but you want us to be the world's employer, the world's emergency room, the world's welfare office...


----------



## LilOlLady

*PATH TO CITIZENSHIP IS AMNESTY.*

Citizenship or amnesty? That is the question - Sentinel & Enterprise


They want to call it  path to citizenship because they may never become citizens but in the meantime they get to stay because they have to pay a fine which is not punishment, learn English and go to the back of the line down at the nearest Walmart. The line began in the country they left behind.

An amnesty may be extended when the authority decides that bringing citizens into compliance with a law is more important than punishing them for past offenses.

Advantage of using amnesty may include avoiding expensive prosecutions (especially when massive numbers of violators are involved, prompting violators to come forward who might otherwise have eluded authorities;

A controversial issue in the United States is whether illegal immigrants should be granted some form of amnesty. It is proposed that illegal immigrants be able to come forward and immediately receive probationary status. This is criticized as being a reward for breaking the law
In the illegal immigration debate, allowing illegal immigrants to legally remain in the United States is often called amnesty.
Amnesty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So they call it a path to citizenship and the punishment is a fictitious fine, learn English and get the back of a fictitious line.  That is not a punishment. A path to citizenship a bad joke played on the American people.
The only difference in what Reagan did in 1978 and what Obama plan to do is Reagan calls it like it is and Obama try to pretty it up. Obamas path to citizenship will end up being amnesty. Illegal aliens will never pay a fine, never learn English and never apply for citizenship. Amnesty or path to citizenship, they get to stay ahead of those who have been waiting to enter legally. AHEAD AND NOT BEHIND THEM. EVEN A CHILD KNOW WHAT BACK OF THE LINE MEAN.


----------



## Zoom-boing

Path to citizenship is get the hell out and come back in legally.


----------



## LilOlLady

*"I AM MEXICAN, CHECK MY PAPERS"*

A sign painted in the back window of an SUV in Arizona.
This is a perfect example why they should not be allowed in this country. They are taunting our laws and law enforcement and shows disrespect.
I would follow his a** until he violated a traffic law and ask for his papers. and hold him up as long as I could. Probably an anchor baby.


----------



## Bullfighter

LilOlLady said:


> *"I AM MEXICAN, CHECK MY PAPERS"*
> 
> A sign painted in the back window of an SUV in Arizona.
> This is a perfect example why they should not be allowed in this country. They are taunting our laws and law enforcement and shows disrespect.
> I would follow his a** until he violated a traffic law and ask for his papers. and hold him up as long as I could. Probably an anchor baby.



This is where the patriotic American comes in. It's called "Crash the Illegal"! I assume they will check papers at each crash site?


----------



## Douger

I saw one the other day that said ' I'm murkin. Help me read my papers"


----------



## Terral

Hi Lady:



LilOlLady said:


> *PATH TO CITIZENSHIP IS AMNESTY.*



http://www.sentinelandenterprise.com/editorial/ci_15443187Not in every case! Every Illegal Alien Foreign National already has a 'path to citizenship' by simply GOING HOME and coming back through the front door like real 'immigrants.' Allowing 20 to 30 MILLION Illegal Aliens to stay here in the USA does nothing to enforce the Rule of Law against unscrupulous Americans 'hiring' them in the first place. Allowing 20 to 30 Million Illegal Aliens to stay in the USA is a kick in the face of every foreign national that came through the front door 'legally.' 

The USA already grants legal immigration to more foreign nationals than all of the other countries on earth combined! There is no reason to hand out Illegal Amnesty to lawbreakers that will never respect our laws, when we have millions and millions of foreign nationals filling out the paperwork for coming in through the front door. Your bought-and-paid-for Congress is pandering to the Open Border Lobby using cash from all of this "Illegal" Activity, which is the very reason that Illegal Aliens will continue to run around loose everywhere no matter what anyone says ...

GL,

Terral


----------



## LilOlLady

Douger said:


> I saw one the other day that said ' I'm murkin. Help me read my papers"



*LMAO*


----------



## westwall

LilOlLady said:


> *ATF in Reno busts four on allegations they traded drugs for 26 guns and three silencers*
> By Jaclyn OMalley  jomalley@rgj.com  July 15, 2010
> 
> Four men are facing federal charges after being arrested in an Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms sting where they* traded drugs and cash for more than two dozen firearms *they told agents *would be used during drug activity in Mexico*.
> 
> Charged on Monday with conspiracy to distribute a controlled substance were Rafael Arias, 24, Luis Eduardo Gonzalez-Luprecio, 23, Juan Burgueno, 25, and Baldemar Sanchez-Goana, 26.
> 
> They are facing a July 23 preliminary hearing in Reno federal court.
> ATF in Reno busts four on allegations they traded drugs for 26 guns and three silencers | rgj.com | The Reno Gazette-Journal






I find it astounding that one of the suspects was released on his own recognizance.


----------



## FA_Q2

R.C. Christian said:


> Yes, they're obviously coming over to steal shit from you, rape your wife, and probably kill you. They're inately subhuman after all!



So, no rebuttal or facts or statements that refute the fact that illegal aliens kill and injure more Americans than both wars combined?  Just one liners that mean nothing?  All right, ill refer you to another thread here that explains this phenomenon perfectly..
http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/124652-well-this-explains-everthying-about-politics.html


----------



## Tech_Esq

R.C. Christian said:


> Yes, they're obviously coming over to steal shit from you, rape your wife, and probably kill you. They're inately subhuman after all!



Nope, they just do it as a matter of course. Collateral damage of their real intent.


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## LilOlLady

*Number of illegal immigrants in U.S. may be closer to 20 million *

By Eliza Krigman Apr 10 2008, 08:47 AM 
OMB looking to crack down on government credit card abuse Number of illegal immigrants in U.S. may be closer to 20 million By Eliza Krigman Apr 10 2008, 08:47 AM 

The "12 million undocumented and illegal immigrants" residing in our country have fueled the national discourse on immigration reform.  The number is repeatedly cited by immigration reform advocates like CNN's Lou Dobbs looking to incite support for their policies in curtailing the influx of foreigners.  But few politicos and pundits ever stop to ask two questions fundamental to the immigration debate: How do we calculate the number of illegal immigrants? And where did the number 12 million come from?  

The methodology for counting unauthorized immigrants relies on a lot of assumptions which call into question the accuracy of the results. Twelve million may be the most popular number cited for illegal immigrants in the U.S at present, but some estimates, like one from Bear Stearns, believe the count is actually closer to a whopping 20 million.

Number of illegal immigrants in U.S. may be closer to 20 million - General News


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## LilOlLady

Can we bring a lawsuit against obama for aiding and abetting illegal aliens?
Since that is federal law not to aid or abet or help to remain, isn't obama committing a felony?
Federal Immigration and Nationality Act
Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii)

"Any person who . . . encourages or induces an alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."

Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):

A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or *local government) *commits a federal felony when she or he:

* assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or
*
Santuary cities are "local government" so they can be sued?*


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## Nate

Ah, if only LilOlLady! Hell while we're at it we should include all the officials who destroyed their cities by making them "Sancturaries" for the illegals...


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## Bullfighter

The Texan army moved quickly and silently across the high-grass plain, and then, when they were only a few dozen yards away, charged Santa Anna's camp shouting "Remember the Alamo!" and "Remember Goliad!," only stopping a few yards from the Mexicans to open fire. The Texans achieved complete surprise. It was a bold attack in broad daylight but its success can be attributed in good part to Santa Anna's failure to post guards during the army's siesta. Santa Anna's army primarily consisted of professional soldiers, but they were trained to fight in ranks, exchanging volleys with their opponents. The Mexicans were ill-prepared and unarmed at the time of the sudden attack. Most were asleep with their soldaderas (i.e., wives and female soldiers), some were out gathering wood, and the cavalrymen were riding bareback fetching water. General Manuel Fernández Castrillón desperately tried to mount an organized resistance, but was soon shot down and killed. His panicked troops fled, and Santa Anna's defensive line quickly collapsed.

Hundreds of the demoralized and confused Mexican soldiers were routed, with many being driven into the marshes along the river to drown. The Texans chased after the fleeing enemy, shouting "take prisoners like the Meskins do!", in reference to the burning of bodies after the Alamo and the mass murder of Texans at Goliad. Some of the Mexican cavalry plunged into the flooded stream by Vince's bridge but they were shot as they struggled in the water. Houston tried to restrain his men but was ignored. Gen. Juan Almonte, commanding what was left of the organized Mexican resistance, soon formally surrendered his 400 remaining men to Rusk. The rest of Santa Anna's once-proud army had disintegrated into chaos. From the moment of the first charge the battle was a slaughter, "frightful to behold", with most of the Texan casualties coming in the first minutes of battle from the first Mexican volley.[8]

During the short but furious fighting, Houston was shot in the left ankle, two of his horses were shot from under him, and Santa Anna escaped. The combat itself lasted 18 minutes but the slaughter of the Mexicans continued for "another hour or so".[3][9] The Texan army had won a stunning victory, killing about 700 Mexican soldiers, wounding 208, and taking 730 prisoners while suffering 9 killed and 30 wounded.[10]

-------------------------------------------------------

The good ole days. No Mexican would dare sneak into the US after this!!!


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## LilOlLady

Va. official: *Similar immigration law worked*

*Prince William County, Va.,* became a dramatic immigration test case *three years ago. *When the county passed a bill in 2007 similar to Arizona's new law, there were demonstrations expressing both *outrage and praise *for the unprecedented move.
"Since the law went into effect, we had *thousands of illegal aliens leaving the community*, our *violent crime rate dropped by an astounding 38 percent *in two years," said Corey Stewart,chairman of the Prince William County Board of Supervisors, and an architect of the plan.
Stewart says the community has been *undeniably transformed, for the better*. More than *2,300 hundred illegal immigrants have been deported*.
"We ended up changing our policy just a little bit to *check essentially everybody who's arrested for any crime whatsoever*. That eliminated the possibility of *racial profiling *and *protected us from a legal perspective*," explained Stewart.

Read more: Va. official: Similar immigration law worked

*YES WE CAN. *


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## LilOlLady

*WE NEED ILLEGAL ALIENS TO SAVE US.
LMAO
ALL WE NEED IS MORE.
LMAO*

30 million illegal aliens later and;
---illegal aliens not saving us.
---medicare and social security still going broke.
---numerous hospital gone bankrupt.
---prisons sit empty because we cannot afford to staff them.
---teacher, policemen, federal, state, city and local government employees laid off.
---unemployment over 10%.
---foreclosures and bailout.
---illegal aliens send $35 billion earned here back to Mexico&#8217;s economy.
And the list goes on and on.
If we need illegal aliens to save us, who will save them? More ilegals?
Mexico&#8217;s economy must be doing great since they don&#8217;t have provide education, healthcare, incarcerations and welfare to 30 million of their citizens. $35 billion a year going into Mexico's  economy would go a long way in fixing our economy.

*How do 30 million low wage earners send $35 billion a year back to Mexico?* Drugs? Gun smuggling and cheating and stealing from the American tax payer? How stupid are we?
-------
*"America, roll up your sleeves. This may hurt a little, but this too will pass."*


----------



## LilOlLady

*IMMIG. REFORM WILL NOT FIX BROKEN IMMIGRATION SYSTEM.*



It just *makes 20 million illegal aliens legal *so there are *no illegal aliens in the countr*y and *make enforcements null and void *and make the *Federal Immigration and Nationality Acts a useless piece of paper.*

If our immigration system is broken, its because *our government has allowed it to be broken *by refusing the enforce immigration laws pertaining to illegal aliens and 20 million illegal aliens and 500,000 anchor babies are proof.

*Our immigration system is not really broken*, its just an excuse for an *unlimited supply of cheap labor for corporations and votes of democrats*. *Immigration Reform is pandering *at the expense of the American tax payers. Our immigration system allows ½ million to immigrate to this country legally each year. Thats a working immigration system and not a broken system.

Obama, Napolitano and homeland security, enforce our immigration laws or get the hell out of the way.


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## LilOlLady

* Mexico braces for effects of Arizona immigration law*

MEXICO CITY &#8212; The other side of the border is also preparing for the implementation of Arizona's new immigration law, which could lead to a surge of deportees back to Mexico.
Migrant shelters along the border in Mexico say they're bracing for new arrivals after the law goes into effect Thursday.
Mexico braces for effects of Arizona immigration law - USATODAY.com


----------



## LilOlLady

WHERE THE MEDIA?

They need to stop the *pro-illegal rhetoric *that *anyone, anytime and anywhere *can be stopped and asked to show their citizenship papers. When the *SB1070 as the Federal Immigration and Nationality Act* say you have to be stopped during a* traffic violation * (or committing a crime) and there is *reasonable suspicion *that you are illegal *only then *can you be asked to *provide proof of citizenship.*
*OBAMA STARTED THIS LIE* WHEN HE SAID *ANYONE, WITH THEIR CHILD,  ON THEIR WAY TO THE  ICE CREAM PARLOR* CAN BE STOPPED AND ASK TO SHOW THEIR *PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP*. THEN *EVERY ILLEGAL ALIEN  AND ADVOCATE TOOK OFF WITH THE LIE.*


----------



## Nate

Obama may not be the cause of our illegal immigration problem but he sure the hell is making it worse...


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## LilOlLady

*ONE WHO IS DISHONEST IN SMALL MATTERS, IS NOT REALLY HONEST IN ANY THING.



"He that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much." LUKE xvi. 10.*


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## LilOlLady

*94% WHITES SUPPORT AMNESTY.
78% Hispanic support amnesty?*
Ricks list, CNN

But the majority of whites support SB1070. How can they support *amnesty and SB1070 *and when it means enforcement and deportation and Immigration Refrom means they get to stay.? *Rick CNN poll lies.*
They left Mexico after 20 years or more so why cant the leave U.S. after 20 years? BOS.


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## SW2SILVER

Harry Truman "started" this shit, you know full well. So? Let's end it NOW!  Immigrate Legaly or shut the hell up. No excuses, nada tomata. NONE.


----------



## Bullfighter

LilOlLady said:


> *94% WHITES SUPPORT AMNESTY.
> 78% Hispanic support amnesty?*
> Ricks list, CNN
> 
> But the majority of whites support SB1070. How can they support *amnesty and SB1070 *and when it means enforcement and deportation and Immigration Refrom means they get to stay.? *Rick CNN poll lies.*
> They left Mexico after 20 years or more so why cant the leave U.S. after 20 years? BOS.



Are those "hispanic" whites?


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## chanel

I'd like to see the questions. Did they use the word "amnesty" or "reform"?


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## LilOlLady

*MARIA SALAZAR IS LIAR*



So said Ana Maria Salazar, deputy assistant secretary of defense for drug enforcement policy and support and is a liar. *I was born and raised in Tucson and when I go back for a visit, I have been stopped many times for nothing* I do no believe her because she would have been screaming *racial profiling* all across this country and she hasnt. *Obama started this lie and it has taken off like a wild fire*. Officers, even in Tucson do not stop people for nothing just because they look illegal. Mexican steal and lie. They steal from ranchers on the border and they continue after they are here.


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## dixierat

I'm related to some LEO's in the Tucson area. They spend their time, hard to believe as it is, actually trying to prevent and solve crimes. That's instead of harassing people and such.


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## Angelhair

LilOlLady said:


> *MARIA SALAZAR IS LIAR[/B
> So said Ana Maria Salazar, deputy assistant secretary of defense for drug enforcement policy and support and is a liar. I was born and raised in Tucson and when I go back for a visit, I have been stopped many times for nothing I do no believe her because she would have been screaming racial profiling all across this country and she hasnt. Obama started this lie and it has taken off like a wild fire. Officers, even in Tucson do not stop people for nothing just because they look illegal. Mexican steal and lie. They steal from ranchers on the border and they continue after they are here.*


*

Of course she is a liar!  Everybody know it.  I would not doubt it if one of the spanish media stations did not put her up to this.  They are running scared that their base will be banished from the USA.  I was born, raised educated in Tucson AZ and I go there many times a year to visit family and I have NEVER been stopped or harrassed!!! SHE IS LYING!*


----------



## Angelhair

LilOlLady said:


> *94% WHITES SUPPORT AMNESTY.
> 78% Hispanic support amnesty?*
> Ricks list, CNN
> 
> But the majority of whites support SB1070. How can they support *amnesty and SB1070 *and when it means enforcement and deportation and Immigration Refrom means they get to stay.? *Rick CNN poll lies.*
> They left Mexico after 20 years or more so why cant the leave U.S. after 20 years? BOS.



_Rick SANCHEZ tweaks the numbers.  That is a blatant lie!  He confuses amnesty with legalization - two different things.  Amnesty was what Reagan gave them in 1986 - that will NEVER happen again.  It was a mistake then; it would be a greater mistake now._


----------



## LilOlLady

chanel said:


> I'd like to see the questions. Did they use the word "amnesty" or "reform"?



The words were Path to Citizenship. Immigration Reformi is path to citizenship and that is just another word for amnesty. Any way you put it they get to stay legally and that's all most or them want. Immigration Reform is a joke if there is no enforcement and border security.


----------



## LilOlLady

Angelhair said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *94% WHITES SUPPORT AMNESTY.
> 78% Hispanic support amnesty?*
> Rick&#8217;s list, CNN
> 
> But the majority of whites support SB1070. How can they support *amnesty and SB1070 *and when it means enforcement and deportation and Immigration Refrom means they get to stay.? *Rick CNN poll lies.*
> They left Mexico after 20 years or more so why can&#8217;t the leave U.S. after 20 years? BOS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Rick SANCHEZ tweaks the numbers.  That is a blatant lie!  He confuses amnesty with *legalization* - two different things.  Amnesty was what Reagan gave them in 1986 - that will NEVER happen again.  It was a mistake then; it would be a greater mistake now._
Click to expand...


Call it whatever you want, *anmesty, path to citizenship or legalization*, it still mean the same thing. They get to stay here legally. and things go on as usual. Immigration Reform will not stop gangs, crime, drug dealing and human smuggling, will not secure the border or stop supply of cheap labor,


----------



## LilOlLady

angelhair. I was raised in Eloy, Pinal county and have two brothers in Tucson and they tell me how bad the drug problem is and they both carry guns and have bars on their door and windows and still they took the swamp cooler of the top of the house and went in and stole items. There are two drug houses on my brother's street and drug related killings daily. 60 years ago illegal aliens crime and drugs was a problem in Pinal County.


----------



## Stephanie

OMG, CNN'S Rick SANCHEZ.

Lmfao


----------



## LilOlLady

SW2SILVER said:


> Harry Truman "started" this shit, you know full well. So? Let's end it NOW!  Immigrate Legaly or shut the hell up. No excuses, nada tomata. NONE.



Obama started the lie about being *stopped going to the ice cream parlor if you are Hispanic looking and asked to show proof for citizenship*. Idid not say the started illegal immigration.


----------



## editec

LilOlLady said:


> *94% WHITES SUPPORT AMNESTY.*
> *78% Hispanic support amnesty?*
> Ricks list, CNN
> 
> But the majority of whites support SB1070. How can they support *amnesty and SB1070 *and when it means enforcement and deportation and Immigration Refrom means they get to stay.? *Rick CNN poll lies.*
> They left Mexico after 20 years or more so why cant the leave U.S. after 20 years? BOS.


 
I don't believe it.


----------



## peach174

Is'nt she the same one that was saying that there is no need for Border Patrol Agents? And was compareing them to the KKK?


----------



## Navy1960

I posted something along these lines in another thread,  but,  if Ms. Salazer would take time to read SB-1070 she would see that even in the legislation racial profiling  has been singled out as a  punishable offense  by an Officer.  If she would bother she would also see the Federal Govt.   has through it's secure communities  program  a database of   Illiegal  Aliens that it shares with over 30 plus state and local law enforement agencies.  None of this matters however to someone who  supports   those who traffic in human beings  and  misery  and would like nothing better than a wide open border where  on a yearly basis  you have  people dying and AK-47  and RPG fire in the street of Tucson and Phoenix from rival drug cartels.   So when people  like Ms. Salazer  run about  speaking of  such things  it's easy in the end to see where they really stand, and I for one, do not support anyone who would stand on the side of human misery,  if you do not support anything else about border  control at the very least that should be a good enough reason to actually address the issue.


----------



## Tank




----------



## LilOlLady

*Judge scoffs at pre-emption argument *in AZ lawsuitShare673posted at 10:55 am on July 23, 2010 by Ed Morrissey 


It didn&#8217;t take long for federal judge Susan Bolton to zero in on the holes in the Obama administration&#8217;s argument in their lawsuit against Arizona and its new must-enforce policy on immigration violations. * Bolton, a Democratic appointee*, shot holes in the Department of Justice&#8217;s pre-emption argument immediately, and in a broader sense wondered why the federal government concerned itself at all over Arizona&#8217;s get-tough policy on illegal immigration:
Hot Air  Judge scoffs at pre-emption argument in AZ lawsuit

*APPEAL AND TAKE IT SUPREME. IT'S NOT OVER UNTIL THE FAT LADY SINGS.*


*"You may have won the battle, but not the war&#8230;"[/I]*


----------



## LilOlLady

IMMIGRATION REFORM WILL NOT FIX ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION

It will only make illegal aliens legal so there will not be any illegal aliens in this country. But it will not anything for immigration enforcement, supply of cheap labor, cost of health care for illegal, welfare,  subsidized housing will not secure the border, stop drug and human smuggling, will not stop illegal alien from killing 25 Americans or raping 8 children a day, cost of incarceration, stop gang activity. With Immigration Reform the above problems will get bigger and cost more. Immigration Reform should mean enforcement at the work place and deportation by attrition only.
We need Immigration Reform for votes for democrats and unlimited supply of cheap labor for businesses which make big contributions to politicians.

________________________________________________________________________ 

*Immigration Reform will make this a worthless piece of paper.*
Federal Immigration and Nationality Act
Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii)


State and local law enforcement officials have the general power to investigate and arrest violators of federal immigration statutes without prior INS knowledge or approval, as long as they are authorized to do so by state law. There is no extant federal limitation on this authority. The 1996 immigration control legislation passed by Congress was intended to encourage states and local agencies to participate in the process of enforcing federal immigration laws. Immigration officers and local law enforcement officers may detain an individual for a brief warrant less interrogation where circumstances create a reasonable suspicion that the individual is illegally present in the U.S. Specific facts constituting a reasonable suspicion include evasive, nervous, or erratic behavior; dress or speech indicating foreign citizenship; and presence in an area known to contain a concentration of illegal aliens. Hispanic appearance alone is not sufficient.


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## LilOlLady

*Operation Community Shield*
Operation Community Shield

*Targeting Violent Transnational Street Gangs*
Overview
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) recognizes that violent transnational criminal street gangs represent a *threat to public safety *in neighborhoods across the United States. 
In 2005, under the auspices of the national gang enforcement initiative Operation Community Shield (OCS), *ICE established itself as the lead federal agency *in the 
investigation of transnational criminal street gangs such as Mara Salvatrucha (MS-13).


----------



## LilOlLady

*SB 1070 Litigation: Declaration In Support of Arizona*
By 
Michael Cutler
Published: July 22, 2010
http://www.statebrief.com/briefblog/2010/07/22/sb-1070-litigation-declaration-in-support-of-arizona/

12. While the actual number of ICE Special Agents is classified, most estimates by what I consider to be reputable data sources put the number of ICE Special Agents at approximately *6,000 for the entire U.S. *A substantial portion of these agents are tasked with enforcement of U.S. Customs law and *not immigration enforcement.* The President recently estimated the number of illegal aliens at 11,000,000 &#8211; other estimates are significantly higher. Government estimates place the number of illegal aliens who have entered through ports of entry but violated their terms of admission, at 4,500,000. According to a recent DHS report, it is estimated that there are only* 272 ICE employees trying to track down these 4,500,000 immigration law violators*. In any event, there are no more than *6,000 ICE agents responsible for the interior enforcement of federal immigration laws for the more than 11,000,000 illegal aliens that are in the United States*. Thus, *ICE cannot be successful in enforcing federal immigration law without the assistance of local law enforcement.*13. Based on any estimate for the number of illegal aliens living in the U.S., it cannot be disputed that the *federal government has failed to secure the borders *of the U.S or to *deter the continuing entry of illegal aliens.*
14. The* federal government&#8217;s failure to secure the border, *combined with the* federal government&#8217;s decision not to engage in substantial interior enforcement*, has created an immigration policy that effectively creates a &#8220;*finish line&#8221; *at the border.

6,000 ICE agents nationwide is a joke on the American people and a tragedy.


----------



## Epsilon Delta

Interesting first step, but it doesn't tackle the root of the problem and it doesn't do it in the manner that would be most effective. It is an effort doomed to fail in the long run. Here's why:

1. As detailed by the _name of the problem itself_, the problem of *Transnational* Street Gangs is a *Transnational* problem. Even being the biggest, baddest world power, the United States will not and cannot effectively tackle such a problem unless it leads in efforts to integrate the strategy at the regional level. In other words, this sort of program will become a piecemeal program unless there's some sort of regionally designed and implemented "Community Shield" operation stretching from California to Panama. 

2. The street gang problem is indeed a threat to public safety in the US, however it is becoming a problem of national stability and survival itself in places like Mexico but especially the 'Northern Triangle' of Central America (Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras). This is where the problem can be said to originate in the late 80s and early 90s. A strategy of simply arresting and later deporting these criminals is not new, it has been occurring for 20 years, and has made the problem infinitely worse inadvertently, again, because it is not an integrated long-term strategy that takes into account the conditions under which these people are being deported.

3. Why does that matter? "It's not our problem, we just want to get them out." Well, thats one of the core parts of the issue: It _is_ a problem, for everyone, whether in the US or Mexico, or Central America. When the first wave of mass deportations of gang members began 20 years ago, they consisted in many parts cases of people who had been for all intents and purposes become Americanized, who had never lived or only had a faint memory of their country of origin - they were in effect uprooted people, a fact which made them even more dangerous. Their gang teeth had been cut in the streets of Los Angeles, and they were now being exported, pissed off and trained, into countries with much less institutional capacity to deal with them and more corruption than the United States. They thrive and proliferate in these settings and have grown by leaps and bounds. 

4. The fact is that this sort of problem is quite complex and requires complex solutions, adopted transnationally, to make it work. There's many contextual factors at work, of course - the poverty and the terribly low job opportunities in the migrant countries being a core both constituent parts of the problem (migration and crime). But a strategy that only tackles the problem of arresting and deporting, when fueling the problem by deporting them to weak states in which they can grow and therefore exacerbate the crime problem and encourage immigration for both economic and criminal reasons, will just continue to make this a loop: arrest, deport, come back, arrest, deport, infinitely and expensively.


----------



## LilOlLady

* ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, THE CONSTITUTION AND THE FOUNDING FATHERS.*
Leadership by George Washington: Founding Fathers on Illegal Immigration and the Safety of the Republic


Historically, America has provided for lawful immigration to those who wish to live here and are willing to accept the responsibilities of citizenship. The Founding Fathers welcomed immigrants who* contributed to society *and who would assimilate into the culture. James Madison said he wished to invite foreigners of merit and republican principles among us. He recognized that America was indebted to emigration for her settlement and prosperity, but he wanted to exclude anyone who could not readily incorporate himself into society. George Washington felt that immigration should be limited to *useful mechanics and some particular description of men and professions. *

Thomas Jefferson feared that immigrants who brought different ideas and refused to assimilate would *cause discord in society*. He warned that These principles, with their language, they will transmit to their children. In proportion to their numbers, they will share with us the legislation. They will infuse into it their spirit, warp and bias its direction, and tender it a heterogeneous, incoherent, distracted mass. Such an effect would be to *destabilize and fracture society*. 

As opposed to legal immigration, illegal immigration occurs when f*oreign nationals enter and/or remain in another country in violation of the law.* Immigration in conformity with the laws of the United States is to be* supported and encouraged*, but those who break the law *should not be allowed to stay*. Rewarding law-breakers only *encourages them to further ignore and flaunt our laws and policies*.

In September 2007, *Mexican President Calderón *criticized the United States for cracking down on illegal immigrants, even though *Mexican officials strictly enforce Mexican immigration laws.* Elton Galleglys response was It is our hope that in future discussions with the Mexican government, you will *encourage Mexico to do its part to address illegal immigration rather than encourage their citizens to illegally enter the U.S. *Unfortunately, *Mexico has a strong incentive *to encourage its nationals to illegally work in the U.S., since its* economy benefits greatly from the money they send back home. *

*Illegal immigration to the United States is a tremendous problem. *It has been estimated that between 11 and 20 million illegal immigrants live here. The illegal immigrant population in 2008 was estimated by the Center for Immigration Studies to be about 11 million people. That is more than the number of legal immigrants. The *majority of the illegal immigrants are from Latin America*. According to a 2005 Pew Hispanic Center report, 57% of illegal immigrants were from Mexico and 24% were from other Latin American countries. According to journalist and author, Peter Brimelow, This type of *mass influx is simply too much to handle*. What we've had since the disaster of the 1965 Immigration Act *will take 100 years or more to absorb.* Illegal immigration is *devastating local economies, schools, health care facilities, and public safety across America. *


----------



## LilOlLady

* ILLEGAL ALIENS HAVE NO RIGHTS*&#12288;
They have no right;
To be in this cournty
To work here 
To be angry
To protest in our streets
To wave the American flags
For their American born children to be citizens.

What they are doing and demanding is just making more Americans more angry. 
What part of illegal to they not understand.
They have displaced anger. If they took this kind of anger home to Mexico they would change things in Mexico for the better and not have to come here and leave their families behind.

*LONG LIVE SHERIFF JOE ARPAIO. 
THE GREATEST AMERICAN HERO.*
Thank you Sheriff Arpio, thank you Gov. Jan Brewer and thank you Sen. Russell Pearce


----------



## Tank

Why would Mexicans respect America?
Their Mexicans.


----------



## Biggles

Exactly!  What don't the Liberals and Progressives understand about the word ILLEGAL??


----------



## LilOlLady

*TO LATE FOR BORDER SECURITY*

Illegal immigration is *way past securing the border*.  Securing the border will only make sure *20 million illegal aliens cannot leave*. We have to concentrate on the *inner cities that are taken over by illegal aliens, gangs, drugs and crime, sanctuary cities, kidnappings, killing or Americans and raping of American children*.
Today our military need to be *on the streets of phoenix *and they need to be in *all our cities *to bring illegal aliens out of the shadows, whatever the hell that means, arrest and deport them. 
If we let *20 million illegal aliens legally stay, the border can never be secured*.
6,000 ICE agents nationwide cannot deal with 20 million illegals and need the help of* state and local officers *and the Federal Immigration and Nationality Act allows it. It allow racial profiling also.
*A path to citizenship is just a pretty word for amnesty*. Been that, done that and will not visit it again. There is nothing good about illegal immigration.


----------



## LilOlLady

*14TH AMENDMENT NO LONGER NEEDED*

&#12288;

The 14th amendment has *long served it purpose *and is *no longer needed*. It was brought forth to *ensure citizenship for newly freed slaves*. Since we no longer have *newly freed slaves* the 14th amendment is no longer needed and should be eliminated. It is now being *gravely mis-used *to give citizenship to children of illegal aliens and* American born children of illegal aliens are not newly freed slaves *and the *14th amendment do not apply to them.*
I am with Lindsey Graham on this one. It is no longer needed and is only an* incentive *for illegal aliens women to come here to drop their babies here in hope they can be *anchors for them. *Children here born to illegal aliens should be *citizens of their parents country.*


----------



## Oddball

No 14th Amendment, no corporate "persons".

Fine by me.


----------



## 007

Oh gee, that would piss off those dudes in NYC that have put together a nice, high rise set of luxury, furnished apartments replete with a welcome basket for women of foreign countries to come and stay to have their anchor babies, all for a measly $5K a month.

Shit like this really does make ya sit and scratch your head and wonder, "what the fuck is wrong with this country?"


----------



## Cal

Yeah..that consitution shit..makes me really scratch my head and wonder, "what the fuck is wrong with this country"?


----------



## 007

YoungLefty said:


> Yeah..that consitution shit..makes me really scratch my head and wonder, "what the fuck is wrong with this country"?



Doesn't surprise me any.... this you?


----------



## 007

Anchor Babies: Is Citizenship an Entitled Birthright?


----------



## Oddball

YoungLefty said:


> Yeah..that consitution shit..makes me really scratch my head and wonder, "what the fuck is wrong with this country"?


Schmucks like you hiding behind the Constitution is the lowest form of sanctimony there is, junior.


----------



## Cal

Pale Rider said:


> YoungLefty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah..that consitution shit..makes me really scratch my head and wonder, "what the fuck is wrong with this country"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't surprise me any.... this you?
Click to expand...




> 'It's just a goddamned piece of paper' - Bush on the Constitution



No.. I think it's George Bush..In costume


----------



## Oddball

_*BOOOOOOOOOSHWHACKED!*_

Thread over.


----------



## Cal

Dude said:


> YoungLefty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah..that consitution shit..makes me really scratch my head and wonder, "what the fuck is wrong with this country"?
> 
> 
> 
> Schmucks like you hiding behind the Constitution is the lowest form of sanctimony there is, junior.
Click to expand...


Just pointing out, your love for the constitution..Or the "piece of paper" seems to have drifted..

But then again.. I guess I was also suprised when the anti- big govt. crowd came out in support of the SB law in Arizona..

I guess I should just get used to the hypocrisy..eh?


----------



## Oddball

Right...Can't argue that you yourself aren't the disingenuous phony, so you have to try to dodge, deflect and change the subject.


----------



## Cal

What about signs like this?:




Oh..We support the constitution!!!
......Except for the part that gives the brown babies a chance at the american dream..


----------



## Cal

Dude said:


> _*BOOOOOOOOOSHWHACKED!*_
> 
> Thread over.


Your not ashamed of your Presidents words..Now are you?


----------



## Oddball

He wasn't "my president", junior.

I haven't voted for a single remocrat or depublican since '94.

You should've picked up a program when you came in the door.


----------



## Cal

Dude said:


> He wasn't "my president", junior.
> 
> I haven't voted for a single remocrat or depublican since '94.
> 
> You should've picked up a program when you came in the door.



You may not have voted for him, but you sure get awful defensive when someone brings him up.. Just sayin'


----------



## Navy1960

Interesting  analogy about Arizona in this thread when it comes to big Govt.   The last I checked  this nation was called the United States and as such a state  that makes laws  that are an exact mirror of  Federal Law for the purpose of protecting it's own citizens and those same  people that some on the left claim to support when in fact they don't. Had they been consistant they would have  been out in masse  protesting the  Federal Govt. for the same  reasons they claim to claim are at stake in Arizona.  In fact when anyone supports an effort to tear down borders and look the other way and ignore  Federal Law they are in fact  supporting an environment  that takes advantage of  illegal aliens  in the form of human traffic, the drug trade, and yes even murder and death.  So I for one do not need to look far to understand when SEIU sends bus loads of people to Arizona from California claiming to support the  hispanic community to understand that they are the very same people who take advantage of them for their own political gain.


----------



## Bullfighter

Epsilon Delta said:


> Interesting first step, but it doesn't tackle the root of the problem and it doesn't do it in the manner that would be most effective. It is an effort doomed to fail in the long run. Here's why:
> 
> 1. As detailed by the _name of the problem itself_, the problem of *Transnational* Street Gangs is a *Transnational* problem. Even being the biggest, baddest world power, the United States will not and cannot effectively tackle such a problem unless it leads in efforts to integrate the strategy at the regional level. In other words, this sort of program will become a piecemeal program unless there's some sort of regionally designed and implemented "Community Shield" operation stretching from California to Panama.
> 
> 2. The street gang problem is indeed a threat to public safety in the US, however it is becoming a problem of national stability and survival itself in places like Mexico but especially the 'Northern Triangle' of Central America (Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras). This is where the problem can be said to originate in the late 80s and early 90s. A strategy of simply arresting and later deporting these criminals is not new, it has been occurring for 20 years, and has made the problem infinitely worse inadvertently, again, because it is not an integrated long-term strategy that takes into account the conditions under which these people are being deported.
> 
> 3. Why does that matter? "It's not our problem, we just want to get them out." Well, thats one of the core parts of the issue: It _is_ a problem, for everyone, whether in the US or Mexico, or Central America. When the first wave of mass deportations of gang members began 20 years ago, they consisted in many parts cases of people who had been for all intents and purposes become Americanized, who had never lived or only had a faint memory of their country of origin - they were in effect uprooted people, a fact which made them even more dangerous. Their gang teeth had been cut in the streets of Los Angeles, and they were now being exported, pissed off and trained, into countries with much less institutional capacity to deal with them and more corruption than the United States. They thrive and proliferate in these settings and have grown by leaps and bounds.
> 
> 4. The fact is that this sort of problem is quite complex and requires complex solutions, adopted transnationally, to make it work. There's many contextual factors at work, of course - the poverty and the terribly low job opportunities in the migrant countries being a core both constituent parts of the problem (migration and crime). But a strategy that only tackles the problem of arresting and deporting, when fueling the problem by deporting them to weak states in which they can grow and therefore exacerbate the crime problem and encourage immigration for both economic and criminal reasons, will just continue to make this a loop: arrest, deport, come back, arrest, deport, infinitely and expensively.



The answer to the problem in one word:






*
GENOCIDE!*


----------



## LilOlLady

*ILLEGAL LABOR AND ILLEGAL DRUGS*

It is a *sad day in American if we have to depend on cheap illegal labor and illegal drugs to fix our economy.* Out* founding fathers must be turning over in their graves *to see how we have screwed up this country and* how low we have stooped.* Calif is thinking about *legalizing drugs to fix their economy*. Reich wing nut want *cheap labor for corporations for donations *and democrats want *cheap votes*. But its all *costing the American tax payer*. Illegal aliens receive more in benefits then they contribute *in federal, state or local taxes.* They all do not *all pay taxes *and that is where the term *mattress money* comes in. And* if illegal aliens contribute so much to us and our economy why do we have so little*?
There is absolute no reason why we should have *cheap illegal labor*. Only 7 million out of 20 million illegal aliens are in the work force. What is the rest of them doing?
And if they contribute* $8 billion to social security each year*, how do they do that when they are *low income earners and pay very little in taxes if any*.(Rich Sanchez) They send *$35 billion back to Mexico each year*. How did they do that?


----------



## Oddball

Washington and Jefferson grew hemp.

The "war" on (some) drugs has been a towering failure, which has aided and abetted the socialistic welfare state in exacerbating the problem along the southern border.

Nice try, but no cheroot.


----------



## cad

Dude said:


> Washington and Jefferson grew hemp.
> 
> The "war" on (some) drugs has been a towering failure, which has aided and abetted the socialistic welfare state in exacerbating the problem along the southern border.
> 
> Nice try, but no cheroot.



jefferson also owned slaves.  times change.


----------



## Oddball

Irrelevant to the issues at hand.

Poor try at diversion and distraction.


----------



## LilOlLady

PATH TO CITIZENSHIP.

If they want to become a part of this country, they need to *go home, get in line behind those already waiting and enter this country legally*. And then *prove they are worthy  *to be a citizen of this country. And if they ever commit a crime, misdemeanor or felon, they should be *deported immediately, and all their assets confiscated, except their personal belongings and their anchor babies* and *never allowed in this country ever again. *They should not be *incarcerated as the expense of the American taxpayer *as they are now. 
American citizenship is an *honor and a privilege *and cannot be *stolen or bought*. It is earned. Immigrants of old came through Ellis Island and registered and *earned the right to be citizens *of this country and *asked for nothing.*
Illegal aliens who* disrespected our laws and entered this country illegally *do not deserve a path to citizenship.
Those that were arrested today in Phoenix should be *deported and stripped of their citizenship*, if they were given amnesty in 1986 or anchor babies. And illegal aliens are again *showing disrespect for our laws *and should be deported. They are not the kind of people I want to share my country with.


----------



## LilOlLady

NO RIGHT TO;

To buy and own property.
Open a business.
Have a drives license.
Have a social security number or tax ID number.


----------



## LilOlLady

Gov. Brewer said on Larry King, she is considering suing the government ........


----------



## LilOlLady

Arizona Law | Jan Brewer | Hannity | MediaiteJul 29, 2010 ... AZ Gov. Jan *Brewer 'Will Consider Suing' The Federal Government Over Immigration Law* ... but I am pretty sure she can sue them! ... Jon Stewart: 'Andrew Breitbart May Be The Most Honest Person In The Entire Story' ...
Arizona Law | Jan Brewer | Hannity | Mediaite


----------



## LilOlLady

IS 20 YEARS THE MAGIC NUMBER?

Just because some illegal aliens have been here living a lie for 20 years is no reason to excuse the fact they broke our immigration laws and have been doing so for 20 years. Criminals have eluded the law for 20 years and when caught we have brought them to justice and punished. Why should illegal aliens be any different. For 20 years they have been stealing from Americans and they need to be brought to justice and punished. Deportation.
They always use the number 20 years  as an excuse for them to stay and most have been here less than 20 and maybe less then 5. Are we going to let those let those who have been here 20 years stay? I would think about it if those who have been here less than 20 years were deported. That would send a clear message to those thinking about coming.


----------



## martybegan

LilOlLady said:


> IS 20 YEARS THE MAGIC NUMBER?
> 
> Just because some illegal aliens have been here living a lie for 20 years is no reason to excuse the fact they broke our immigration laws and have been doing so for 20 years. Criminals have eluded the law for 20 years and when caught we have brought them to justice and punished. Why should illegal aliens be any different. For 20 years they have been stealing from Americans and they need to be brought to justice and punished. Deportation.
> They always use the number 20 years  as an excuse for them to stay and most have been here less than 20 and maybe less then 5. Are we going to let those let those who have been here 20 years stay? I would think about it if those who have been here less than 20 years were deported. That would send a clear message to those thinking about coming.



it all depends on how you define the crime. Does the crime occur when a person crosses the border illegally? the first day they stay past a limited time visa? or is the crime occuring every new day the person is here illegally?

The definition of what the actual crime is determines things like the statue of limitations, which can come into play with certain definitions of the crime of being here illegally.


----------



## Bullfighter

LilOlLady said:


> IS 20 YEARS THE MAGIC NUMBER?
> 
> Just because some illegal aliens have been here living a lie for 20 years is no reason to excuse the fact they broke our immigration laws and have been doing so for 20 years. Criminals have eluded the law for 20 years and when caught we have brought them to justice and punished. Why should illegal aliens be any different. For 20 years they have been stealing from Americans and they need to be brought to justice and punished. Deportation.
> They always use the number 20 years  as an excuse for them to stay and most have been here less than 20 and maybe less then 5. Are we going to let those let those who have been here 20 years stay? I would think about it if those who have been here less than 20 years were deported. That would send a clear message to those thinking about coming.



*JUAN HUMBERTO (through translator): I've lived in this country for 15 years. I pay taxes just like any other person. I'm a homeowner. I bought a house. I also have a gardening business. I'm not robbing anyone. I'm not a criminal.*

That Mexican invader was here for 15 years and is a business man. But not one word of English could he speak. Who does he do business with?

Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly . FEATURE . IMMIGRANT SANCTUARY MOVEMENT . June 15, 2007 | PBS


----------



## LilOlLady

martybegan said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> IS 20 YEARS THE MAGIC NUMBER?
> 
> Just because some illegal aliens have been here living a lie for 20 years is no reason to excuse the fact they broke our immigration laws and have been doing so for 20 years. Criminals have eluded the law for 20 years and when caught we have brought them to justice and punished. Why should illegal aliens be any different. For 20 years they have been stealing from Americans and they need to be brought to justice and punished. Deportation.
> They always use the number 20 years  as an excuse for them to stay and most have been here less than 20 and maybe less then 5. Are we going to let those let those who have been here 20 years stay? I would think about it if those who have been here less than 20 years were deported. That would send a clear message to those thinking about coming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it all depends on how you define the crime. Does the crime occur when a person crosses the border illegally? the first day they stay past a limited time visa? or is the crime occuring every new day the person is here illegally?
> 
> The definition of what the actual crime is determines things like the statue of limitations, which can come into play with certain definitions of the crime of being here illegally.
Click to expand...



I do not think there is a statue of limitations of illegal immigration or not, but illegals have been deported after being here 20 years.


----------



## martybegan

LilOlLady said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> IS 20 YEARS THE MAGIC NUMBER?
> 
> Just because some illegal aliens have been here living a lie for 20 years is no reason to excuse the fact they broke our immigration laws and have been doing so for 20 years. Criminals have eluded the law for 20 years and when caught we have brought them to justice and punished. Why should illegal aliens be any different. For 20 years they have been stealing from Americans and they need to be brought to justice and punished. Deportation.
> They always use the number 20 years  as an excuse for them to stay and most have been here less than 20 and maybe less then 5. Are we going to let those let those who have been here 20 years stay? I would think about it if those who have been here less than 20 years were deported. That would send a clear message to those thinking about coming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it all depends on how you define the crime. Does the crime occur when a person crosses the border illegally? the first day they stay past a limited time visa? or is the crime occuring every new day the person is here illegally?
> 
> The definition of what the actual crime is determines things like the statue of limitations, which can come into play with certain definitions of the crime of being here illegally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I do not think there is a statue of limitations of illegal immigration or not, but illegals have been deported after being here 20 years.
Click to expand...


I have a feeling most of those 20 year plus deporatations are due to the person being arrested and convicted of something else, and then deported due to thier status, not for the crime of being here illegally itself.


----------



## Douger

Bullfighter said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> IS 20 YEARS THE MAGIC NUMBER?
> 
> Just because some illegal aliens have been here living a lie for 20 years is no reason to excuse the fact they broke our immigration laws and have been doing so for 20 years. Criminals have eluded the law for 20 years and when caught we have brought them to justice and punished. Why should illegal aliens be any different. For 20 years they have been stealing from Americans and they need to be brought to justice and punished. Deportation.
> They always use the number 20 years  as an excuse for them to stay and most have been here less than 20 and maybe less then 5. Are we going to let those let those who have been here 20 years stay? I would think about it if those who have been here less than 20 years were deported. That would send a clear message to those thinking about coming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *JUAN HUMBERTO (through translator): I've lived in this country for 15 years. I pay taxes just like any other person. I'm a homeowner. I bought a house. I also have a gardening business. I'm not robbing anyone. I'm not a criminal.*
> 
> That Mexican invader was here for 15 years and is a business man. But not one word of English could he speak. Who does he do business with?
> 
> Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly . FEATURE . IMMIGRANT SANCTUARY MOVEMENT . June 15, 2007 | PBS
Click to expand...

murkins. They just point and use hand gestures.Seen it a million times.
You cutty my grassy por fezory ?
You painto my fenso ameeger.  ?
There are murkins down here that have been here 30 years and can barely belch out " hola".
Stupidity is not race specific.


----------



## Bullfighter

Douger said:


> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> IS 20 YEARS THE MAGIC NUMBER?
> 
> Just because some illegal aliens have been here living a lie for 20 years is no reason to excuse the fact they broke our immigration laws and have been doing so for 20 years. Criminals have eluded the law for 20 years and when caught we have brought them to justice and punished. Why should illegal aliens be any different. For 20 years they have been stealing from Americans and they need to be brought to justice and punished. Deportation.
> They always use the number 20 years  as an excuse for them to stay and most have been here less than 20 and maybe less then 5. Are we going to let those let those who have been here 20 years stay? I would think about it if those who have been here less than 20 years were deported. That would send a clear message to those thinking about coming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *JUAN HUMBERTO (through translator): I've lived in this country for 15 years. I pay taxes just like any other person. I'm a homeowner. I bought a house. I also have a gardening business. I'm not robbing anyone. I'm not a criminal.*
> 
> That Mexican invader was here for 15 years and is a business man. But not one word of English could he speak. Who does he do business with?
> 
> Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly . FEATURE . IMMIGRANT SANCTUARY MOVEMENT . June 15, 2007 | PBS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> murkins. They just point and use hand gestures.Seen it a million times.
> You cutty my grassy por fezory ?
> You painto my fenso ameeger.  ?
> There are murkins down here that have been here 30 years and can barely belch out " hola".
> Stupidity is not race specific.
Click to expand...


I wish there was a ENGLISH to HORRIBLY DEFORMED, SOUNDS VAGUELY LIKE, ENGLISH Dictionary for people who now live in Mexican-occupied America.


----------



## chanel

It's incredible to me.  I have several friends who are naturalized citizens and English is not their first language.  Yet they are perfectly fluent in both languages.

I can only surmise that those that have lived here for 15 years and don't speak the language are either a: mentally retarded (obviously not the case here) or  b.  actively defiant toward assimilation (which would make them ineligible for citizenship, right?)

Can't think of any other reasons...


----------



## LilOlLady

Plants and grass don't care what language you speak.


----------



## AmericanFirst

LilOlLady said:


> E.J. Montini is a columnist for The Arizona Republic
> .*Racial profiling legal says AZ prof *
> 
> 
> One of the go-to experts in the SB 1070 debate has been Professor Gabriel Chin at the University of Arizona.
> 
> In Tuesdays Washington Post, Chin and University of California Davis Professor Kevin Johnson argue that the U.S. Supreme Court and the Arizona State Supreme Court have allowed racial profiling when it comes to immigration enforcement. (Read their essay here.)
> azcentral.com blogs - E.J. Montini's Columns & Blog - EJMontini - Racial profiling legal says AZ prof


Who cares what a couple of socialists from a couple of socialist brainwashing school think? The bill specifically prohibited profiling. But that was too much. The obama admin got embarrassed and filed a lawsuit to save face.


----------



## AmericanFirst

Douger said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *What does the Bible say about illegal immigration?*
> What does the Bible say about illegal immigration?
> 
> 
> 
> The vast majority of illegal immigrants in the United States have come for the purpose of having a better life, providing for their families, and escaping from poverty. These are good goals and motivations. However, it is not biblical to violate a law to achieve something "good." Caring for the poor, orphans, and widows is something the Bible commands us to do (Galatians 2:10; James 1:27; 2:2-15). However, the biblical fact that we are to care for the misfortunate does not mean we should violate the law in doing so. Supporting, enabling, and/or encouraging illegal immigration is, therefore, also a violation of God's Word. Those seeking to immigrate to another country should always obey the immigration laws of that country. While this may cause delays and frustrations, these reasons do not give a person the right to violate a law.
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> *"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil,
> but because of those who look on and do nothing.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's because the bible was written by a govt and for all govts.
> King James was the head architect of your current brainwashed enslavement.
Click to expand...

If you knew anything and weree half intelligent you would know the bible was not written by gov't. but by God through man.


----------



## SW2SILVER

I live here in the twilight zone. Years ago, some  Anglo guy was killed by a bunch of Hispanics right in front of my house. Reality.  FACT.  Nobody , accept his family shed a tear. By a group of Hispanics. Legal?  Do you care, even?  A few years later, an Hispanic guy was murdered a block down the street by a Mexican gang banger. I heard the shrieks that night. That same family lives there, the ones that created that mess. These same jerks, Mexicans, ignored health and housing codes, and were raided by government TWICE. AND those "immigrants" are  still there. NOTHING stops these assholes, nothing.. They are STILL there!  , since then, the entire neighborhood has fallen over to Illegals from Mexico. It never ends, If this shit doesnt effect you NOW, it WILL, one day.  If you support illlegals  and YOU arent  HISPANIC, you will regret it big time one day. Mark my words.


----------



## LilOlLady

*SB1070 WILL STAND*


*SB1070 do not &#8220;pre-empt&#8221; federal law but complement it. *How do you enforce immigration laws if you do not profile?
Legal citizens to not have to be asked citizenship status if they are  stopped on a traffic violation if they have a driver&#8217;s license because to get a drivers license a birth certificate is required.
If an illegal aliens have a NY driver&#8217;s license it can be run through the NYDMV and data will show that a birth certificate in not on application and that is reasonable suspicion that they are illegal.
To obtain a NY driver&#8217;s license some kind of identification is necessary or it cannot be used for identification. Plus they may have numerous identifications in numerous names. Cannot identify that the person using the driver&#8217;s license is really who it say they are. 
No way to do a credible back ground check on a person with numerous aliases. 

*State and local law enforcement *officials have the *general power *to investigate and *arrest violators of federal immigration statutes *without *prior INS knowledge or approval*, as long as they are *authorized to do so by state law. *There is *no extant federal limitation on this authority*. The 1996 immigration control legislation passed by Congress was intended to *encourage states and local agencies *to *participate *in the process of *enforcing federal immigration laws*. Immigration officers and* local law enforcement officers *may d*etain *an individual for a brief warrant less interrogation where *circumstances create a reasonable suspicion *that the individual is illegally present in the U.S. Specific facts constituting a reasonable suspicion include evasive, nervous, or erratic behavior; *dress or speech indicating foreign citizenship*; and presence in an area known to contain a *concentration of illegal aliens*. *Hispanic appearance alone *is not sufficient.


----------



## Charles_Main

LilOlLady said:


> *SB1070 WILL STAND*
> 
> 
> *SB1070 do not pre-empt federal law but complement it. *How do you enforce immigration laws if you do not profile?
> Legal citizens to not have to be asked citizenship status if they are  stopped on a traffic violation if they have a drivers license because to get a drivers license a birth certificate is required.
> If an illegal aliens have a NY drivers license it can be run through the NYDMV and data will show that a birth certificate in not on application and that is reasonable suspicion that they are illegal.
> To obtain a NY drivers license some kind of identification is necessary or it cannot be used for identification. Plus they may have numerous identifications in numerous names. Cannot identify that the person using the drivers license is really who it say they are.
> No way to do a credible back ground check on a person with numerous aliases.
> 
> *State and local law enforcement *officials have the *general power *to investigate and *arrest violators of federal immigration statutes *without *prior INS knowledge or approval*, as long as they are *authorized to do so by state law. *There is *no extant federal limitation on this authority*. The 1996 immigration control legislation passed by Congress was intended to *encourage states and local agencies *to *participate *in the process of *enforcing federal immigration laws*. Immigration officers and* local law enforcement officers *may d*etain *an individual for a brief warrant less interrogation where *circumstances create a reasonable suspicion *that the individual is illegally present in the U.S. Specific facts constituting a reasonable suspicion include evasive, nervous, or erratic behavior; *dress or speech indicating foreign citizenship*; and presence in an area known to contain a *concentration of illegal aliens*. *Hispanic appearance alone *is not sufficient.



See my other post. Why not change the law to make officers check everyone status regardless of race.

no more claims of Racial profiling. 

The saddest thing about this all, what this whole deal so far has proved.

The lie that we can not Deport them all. We do not have to, the build up to this law proved that. Simply let them know we are going to enforce the law, and stop employers from hiring them, and they will pack up and go home. 

I mean wasn't that the theme all day the day it was blocked. How Illegals who were preparing to flee back to Mexico were rejoicing?


----------



## SW2SILVER

I&#8217;ve delt with local government.  I have delt with the Feds, I have  realized  how much they like to pass the buck. The thing about Arizona&#8217;s  Immigration law? The feds don&#8217;t  enforce  immigration laws. GOD forbid the State intervene . I do NOT understand this mess, WHY should the  FEDS care? Because It fillls up their jails? Holy Guantanamo ! What do they care? When did  (illegally) detaining ANYONE bother the feds?


----------



## Angelhair

_Bill O. is not the only one who is angry - many, many people across america feel the same way and among those are HISPANICS!!!!!_


----------



## Angelhair

SW2SILVER said:


> I live here in the twilight zone. Years ago, some  Anglo guy was killed by a bunch of Hispanics right in front of my house. Reality.  FACT.  Nobody , accept his family shed a tear. By a group of Hispanics. Legal?  Do you care, even?  A few years later, an Hispanic guy was murdered a block down the street by a Mexican gang banger. I heard the shrieks that night. That same family lives there, the ones that created that mess. These same jerks, Mexicans, ignored health and housing codes, and were raided by government TWICE. AND those "immigrants" are  still there. NOTHING stops these assholes, nothing.. They are STILL there!  , since then, the entire neighborhood has fallen over to Illegals from Mexico. It never ends, If this shit doesnt effect you NOW, it WILL, one day.  If you support illlegals  and YOU arent  HISPANIC, you will regret it big time one day. Mark my words.



_There are many, many decent, law abiding hispanics SW2Silver - don't doubt that!  In fact many more than what you will ever know feel as YOU do.  Just keep in mind that the news media does not report on those that agree with the feds going after those here illegally.  I will even bet my last dollar that many minorities in this country are in agreement._


----------



## Bullfighter

chanel said:


> It's incredible to me.  I have several friends who are naturalized citizens and English is not their first language.  Yet they are perfectly fluent in both languages.
> 
> I can only surmise that those that have lived here for 15 years and don't speak the language are either a: mentally retarded (obviously not the case here) or  b.  actively defiant toward assimilation (which would make them ineligible for citizenship, right?)
> 
> Can't think of any other reasons...



Latin Americans HATE Americans and LA RAZA is leading the invasion to take over the United States. It's that simple. Oh, yeah. Plus they're too stupid to fix their own countries so they breed like rats and feed off of the US.


----------



## elvis

threads merged. ~elvis.


----------



## LilOlLady

MEXICO NEEDS YOU
So go home.

Mexico need its young, strong and healthy men and women now more than ever and what are they doing? They are tucking tail and running away like bunch of little punk a** cowards. *Go home and help clean up your country and we will help you*.

We are not cowards. We stay and fight. We have fought civil wars. Had revolutions and we have won. We have had depressions and oppressions of civil rights and human rights and we stay because our country is worth fighting for. You  do not win by running away.

We do not want a bunch a little punk a** cowards that is going to tuck tail and run if we needed you.  You are running but I dont see you running to enlist to go to Iraq or Afghanistan.

If you went home and protested as loudly as you have against SB1070 and for amnesty , you may be able to change things for the better in México for all Mexicans.


----------



## OCA

LilOlLady said:


> MEXICO NEEDS YOU
> So go home.
> 
> Mexico need its young, strong and healthy men and women now more than ever and what are they doing? They are tucking tail and running away like bunch of little punk a** cowards. *Go home and help clean up your country and we will help you*.
> 
> We are not cowards. We stay and fight. We have fought civil wars. Had revolutions and we have won. We have had depressions and oppressions of civil rights and human rights and we stay because our country is worth fighting for. You  do not win by running away.
> 
> We do not want a bunch a little punk a** cowards that is going to tuck tail and run if we needed you.  You are running but I dont see you running to enlist to go to Iraq or Afghanistan.
> 
> If you went home and protested as loudly as you have against SB1070 and for amnesty , you may be able to change things for the better in México for all Mexicans.



Not gonna do it, the American economy needs them.


----------



## Mr. H.

Mexico could probably use some tourists, too. I'll never go near the place.


----------



## FA_Q2

Charles_Main said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *SB1070 WILL STAND*
> 
> 
> *SB1070 do not pre-empt federal law but complement it. *How do you enforce immigration laws if you do not profile?
> Legal citizens to not have to be asked citizenship status if they are  stopped on a traffic violation if they have a drivers license because to get a drivers license a birth certificate is required.
> If an illegal aliens have a NY drivers license it can be run through the NYDMV and data will show that a birth certificate in not on application and that is reasonable suspicion that they are illegal.
> To obtain a NY drivers license some kind of identification is necessary or it cannot be used for identification. Plus they may have numerous identifications in numerous names. Cannot identify that the person using the drivers license is really who it say they are.
> No way to do a credible back ground check on a person with numerous aliases.
> 
> *State and local law enforcement *officials have the *general power *to investigate and *arrest violators of federal immigration statutes *without *prior INS knowledge or approval*, as long as they are *authorized to do so by state law. *There is *no extant federal limitation on this authority*. The 1996 immigration control legislation passed by Congress was intended to *encourage states and local agencies *to *participate *in the process of *enforcing federal immigration laws*. Immigration officers and* local law enforcement officers *may d*etain *an individual for a brief warrant less interrogation where *circumstances create a reasonable suspicion *that the individual is illegally present in the U.S. Specific facts constituting a reasonable suspicion include evasive, nervous, or erratic behavior; *dress or speech indicating foreign citizenship*; and presence in an area known to contain a *concentration of illegal aliens*. *Hispanic appearance alone *is not sufficient.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See my other post. Why not change the law to make officers check everyone status regardless of race.
> 
> no more claims of Racial profiling.
> 
> The saddest thing about this all, what this whole deal so far has proved.
> 
> The lie that we can not Deport them all. We do not have to, the build up to this law proved that. Simply let them know we are going to enforce the law, and stop employers from hiring them, and they will pack up and go home.
> 
> I mean wasn't that the theme all day the day it was blocked. How Illegals who were preparing to flee back to Mexico were rejoicing?
Click to expand...


None of them ran back to Mexico.  They all went to other states.  I would bet CA is going to start regretting that sanctuary city law soon....


----------



## editec

Can't blame people for leaving a system that's so fucked up as Mexico's.

AFter all most of us White Folks are Americans because our grandfathers or great grandfathers made similar decisions about leaving Europe.

I think that this wave of illegals is a diaster for America, but I certainly can't blame the Mexicans for coming here.

I would BE AN ILLEGAL, too.

And those of you with balls, who probably  hate illegals might be ilegals as well if the zapato were on the other foot.


----------



## LilOlLady

What happen to a city when all it's people leave? it become a ghost town. If Mexico is destroyed, we are next. It is not our problem now, but it will be. Saving Mexico is in our best interest more so than Iraq and Afghanistan.


----------



## editec

LilOlLady said:


> What happen to a city when all it's people leave? it become a ghost town. If Mexico is destroyed, we are next. It is not our problem now, but it will be. Saving Mexico is in our best interest more so than Iraq and Afghanistan.


 
Ain't that the truth.

Of course NAFTA is part of Mexico's problem.

And so we see that the masters have actually created a system that not only managed to screw American factory workers, but one that ALSO screwed the Mexican farmers economy at the same time.

But hey it's making them rich, so good enough, eh?


----------



## LilOlLady

editec said:


> Can't blame people for leaving a system that's so fucked up as Mexico's.
> 
> AFter all most of us White Folks are Americans because our grandfathers or great grandfathers made similar decisions about leaving Europe.
> 
> I think that this wave of illegals is a diaster for America, but I certainly can't blame the Mexicans for coming here.
> 
> I would BE AN ILLEGAL, too.
> 
> And those of you with balls, who probably  *hate illegals *might be *ilegals* as well if the zapato were on the other foot.



That's an old story, get to the end of it.


----------



## LilOlLady

*That's my job. Glad to know I am good at it.*


----------



## cad

editec said:


> Can't blame people for leaving a system that's so fucked up as Mexico's.
> 
> AFter all most of us White Folks are Americans because our grandfathers or great grandfathers made similar decisions about leaving Europe.
> 
> I think that this wave of illegals is a diaster for America, but I certainly can't blame the Mexicans for coming here.
> 
> I would BE AN ILLEGAL, too.
> 
> And those of you with balls, who probably  hate illegals might be ilegals as well if the zapato were on the other foot.



sometimes the zapato is on the other foot.  i don't blame the mexicans for coming here either, i would imagine if i were in their position, i would do the same thing.  

what i do have a problem with is the mexican president coming to the US and lecturing us on our inhumane immigration policy when "the top UN advocate for migrant rights toured the country and proclaimed that "the impunity with which Mexico victimizes Central American immigrants makes it the principal violator of human rights on the American continent."


----------



## LilOlLady

JORGE RAMOS

The Declarations of Independence say that all men are created equal. But now there are millions of men and women in Arizona and other parts of the U.S. that are not being treated equal.  Countries are judged by the way they treat the most vulnerable and the most vulnerable population right now is undocumented immigrants. (illegal aliens)
The most vulnerable in the US now are  not undocumented immigrants (illegal aliens) but Americans. 
Does that mean we should treat Bin Laden, Al Qaeda, Taliban, child molesters, thieves, MS 13,etc equal.


----------



## Mel Gibson

Why are White countries for everybody?

Why must White countries, only White countries and every White country be forced to accept massive non-white immigration? And why are we told that white countries do not exist, and that it would be racist if a White country did exist, for it to remain white? 

Every white country on earth is supposed to become multicultural and multiracial. EVERY white country is expected to end its own race and end its own culture. No one asks that of ANY non-white country.

But if any white person tells that obvious truth about the ongoing program of genocide against our race, the white race, Liberals and respectable conservatives agree that we are naziswhowanttokillsixmillionjews.


The phrase &#8220;a nation of immigrants&#8221; is just a word to deny whites the right to our own country. It is an attack word like "racism", to paralyse us from standing up for ourselves. Being a nation of immigrants is only ever applied to white countries, the point of the phrase is to tell white people they have no right to claim their nation as their own because it belongs to the world. And that it is only right that we be dispossessed of our land.

Whites are told to accept the fact that whoever wants to live here has the right to be here . The fact that white nations existed in the past, we are told, was all the result of Bigotry and Racism, a lack of enlightenment on our part. The existence of white nations was a matter of fault, all a mistake. Failings and moral defects of the white population for not inviting the entire non-white world sooner. And for ever thinking our nations should exist for our selves and our children. Multiculturalism and Diversity is fixing the fault for there ever having been a white nation in the first place. It is a correction of our moral failure for every having acted to maintain a decent living space for ourselves and our posterity.


Africa for the Africans, Asia for the Asians, and White countries for everybody!


www_whitakeronline_org/blog/


----------



## Tank

Why does anyone expect Mexicans to want to be Americans?

Would a American ever want to be a Mexican?


----------



## LilOlLady

SW2SILVER said:


> Lil old lady is being pedantic  yet again.  The illegal aliens have won, with all due respect.  They outbreed EVERYONE, they are future voters and they will inevitably be forced to pay taxes, either way. I think,  they win. What laws they are breaking now, they will be forgiven for AND they will re-write future laws  and history to favor themselves. The writing is already on the wall. I dont like it better than the rest of you, either, but there it is.



I do not believe "pedantic" is appropriate in this instance. Over re-acting. I beieve I have said exactily what you are saying?


----------



## Angelhair

LilOlLady said:


> JORGE RAMOS
> 
> The Declarations of Independence say that all men are created equal. But now there are millions of men and women in Arizona and other parts of the U.S. that are not being treated equal.  Countries are judged by the way they treat the most vulnerable and the most vulnerable population right now is undocumented immigrants. (illegal aliens)
> The most vulnerable in the US now are  not undocumented immigrants (illegal aliens) but Americans.
> Does that mean we should treat Bin Laden, Al Qaeda, Taliban, child molesters, thieves, MS 13,etc equal.



_Just proves what I have always said - Jorge Ramos is the most ignorant anchor by far on TV.  He had to leave his 'Mexico lindo' cause he was not able to do his job and he comes here and thinks he now has the 'right' to fight for people who enter our country illegally - go figure._


----------



## Angelhair

_No, we are NOT all immigrants.   Maybe my ancestors were, but I am not.   I was born and raised in the USA._


----------



## WhatTheHell2

Zona said:


> My ancestors came here as illegals on slave ships.  Dammit, by proxy I am an illegal! This sucks.




The 14th Amendment were devised to give you and your ancestor citizenship. It was not meant to children of Illegal aliens and that is mis-used of that 14th amendment for those who benefit from illegal immigration. It need to be appealed retroactively.


----------



## froggy

Cherokee here.


----------



## Tech_Esq

R.C. Christian said:


> Yes, they're obviously coming over to steal shit from you, rape your wife, and probably kill you. They're inately subhuman after all!



That's just collateral damage. Don't be silly. They are here for the money.


----------



## froggy

Tech_Esq said:


> R.C. Christian said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they're obviously coming over to steal shit from you, rape your wife, and probably kill you. They're inately subhuman after all!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's just collateral damage. Don't be silly. They are here for the money.
Click to expand...


Stealing from Americans.


----------



## Tech_Esq

froggy said:


> Tech_Esq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> R.C. Christian said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they're obviously coming over to steal shit from you, rape your wife, and probably kill you. They're inately subhuman after all!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's just collateral damage. Don't be silly. They are here for the money.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stealing from Americans.
Click to expand...


I think we could flesh that out a little. Let's construct the argument that if a person from a country other than the US comes into the country without the appropriate credentials and circumstances, then he has done so illegally. That is, contrary to the laws of the US. The US, like every other sovereign country is allowed to publish laws concerning the requirements for entry into its sovereign territory. The US government has duly published those laws and they exist in the United States Code and the Code of Federal Regulations.

If a person, having violated the laws concerning legal immigration, then takes up employment, he has then taken something to which he has no right because it is against the law to be illegally here and work. To the extent that their is unemployment, one could say that the illegal alien has "taken" unlawfully a job, from anyone who could hold it lawfully. So, even in a case where an illegal is otherwise working diligently and breaking no further laws than the first two he broke, it is still theft.

This is aside from the outright criminal theft that we see from the criminal element.

(As an aside, a drunk illegal hit a car full of nuns here last night and killed one of them).


----------



## LilOlLady

Angelhair said:


> _No, we are NOT all immigrants.   Maybe my ancestors were, but I am not.   I was born and raised in the USA._



I was making a distinguish between *legal and illegal immigrants.* I was not talking about citizens. I am sorry if I did not make it clearer.


----------



## froggy

Angelhair said:


> _No, we are NOT all immigrants.   Maybe my ancestors were, but I am not.   I was born and raised in the USA._



But was it a legal birth?


----------



## GHook93

My ancestors came over from Russia legally back during the Czars days. I am not an immigrant I'm a native born American (and only an American) born from American citizens!


----------



## Angelhair

Tech_Esq said:


> froggy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tech_Esq said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's just collateral damage. Don't be silly. They are here for the money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stealing from Americans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think we could flesh that out a little. Let's construct the argument that if a person from a country other than the US comes into the country without the appropriate credentials and circumstances, then he has done so illegally. That is, contrary to the laws of the US. The US, like every other sovereign country is allowed to publish laws concerning the requirements for entry into its sovereign territory. The US government has duly published those laws and they exist in the United States Code and the Code of Federal Regulations.
> 
> If a person, having violated the laws concerning legal immigration, then takes up employment, he has then taken something to which he has no right because it is against the law to be illegally here and work. To the extent that their is unemployment, one could say that the illegal alien has "taken" unlawfully a job, from anyone who could hold it lawfully. So, even in a case where an illegal is otherwise working diligently and breaking no further laws than the first two he broke, it is still theft.
> 
> This is aside from the outright criminal theft that we see from the criminal element.
> 
> (As an aside, a drunk illegal hit a car full of nuns here last night and killed one of them).
Click to expand...


_As long as this government allows the abuse, it will continue.  They can pass all the laws they want but if not implemented, what good are they????  I don't see the feds falling all over themselves hurrying to implement the laws regarding illegal entry - especially into AZ and all border states!  Nothing has changed; nothing will change._


----------



## Tech_Esq

I would suggest that the AZ and the attorneys general from all of the effected states seek a Writ of Mandamus from the United States Supreme Court against Secretary Nepolitano.

For those of you not familiar with a Writ of Mandamus:



> The name of a writ, the principal word of which when the proceedings were in Latin, was mandamus, *we command*





> The 13th section of the act of congress of Sept. 24, 1789, gives the Supreme Court power to issue writs of mandamus in cases warranted by the principles and usages of law, to any courts appointed or* persons holding office, under the authority of the United States.*



Basically, when applied to office holders, the Writ forces the office holder to "do their job."

Some might remember the underlying case of famous Supreme Court case, Marbury v. Madison, was a Writ of Mandamus. Marbury was to be appointed a judge by Adams at the end of his administration. Although Adams signed the appointment, it was not delivered when Jefferson took over. Madison was the new official whose job it would be to deliver the appointment. Then as now, judicial appointments were not taken lightly and Madison didn't want to deliver them. Marbury got a Writ of Mandamus to force Madison to deliver the appointment.

In our case, we want the Secretary of Homeland Security to do her job; enforce the laws of the United States at the border. Perhaps being under Judicial supervision is what it will take for her to do her job.


----------



## LilOlLady

GOVT ENTITLEMENT PROGRAM FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS


Comprehensive Immigration Reform is nothing more than a government entitlement program for illegal aliens. Legalization with a path to citizenship if they want it. It does nothing to stop illegal immigration, cost of healthcare, education and incarcerations, curb jackpot babies, secure the border, stop drug smuggling, gangs (MS13) and crimes that come with illegal immigration. Absolutely nothing else but make 20 million illegal aliens, legal with at path to citizenship.  Another government entitlement program. We do not have the money in our budget for another entitlement program. 
If you want Comprehensive Immigration Reform, please make it real. 

Automatic birthright citizenship is nothing more than Affirmative Action for illegal aliens.


----------



## OCA

LilOlLady said:


> What happen to a city when all it's people leave? it become a ghost town. If Mexico is destroyed, we are next. It is not our problem now, but it will be. Saving Mexico is in our best interest more so than Iraq and Afghanistan.



America is already destroyed, guess you are just too blind to recognize it.


----------



## LilOlLady

There is No "Fourteenth Amendment"!
by halley » Wed Aug 04, 2010 722 

There is No "Fourteenth Amendment"!
by
David Lawrence
U.S. News & World Report
September 27, 1957

A MISTAKEN BELIEF  that there is a valid article in the Constitution known as the "Fourteenth Amendment"  is responsible for the Supreme Court decision of 1954 and the ensuing controversy over desegregation in the public schools of America. No such amendment was ever legally ratified by three fourths of the States of the Union as required by the Constitution itself. The so-called "Fourteenth Amendment" was dubiously proclaimed by the Secretary of State on July 20, 1868. The President shared that doubt. There were 37 States in the Union at the time, so ratification by at least 28 was necessary to make the amendment an integral part of the Constitution. Actually, only 21 States legally ratified it. So it failed of ratification.
David Lawrence: There is No "Fourteenth Amendment"!


----------



## xotoxi

Repealing the 14th amendment would get very expensive.

Think of how many claims would be filed against the US Government by southern farmers for reimbursement for loss of slaves.


----------



## topspin

please don't hold your breath waiting for that repeal, just deport all illegals.


----------



## Steerpike

It wouldn't need to be repealed. The idea is that it was never ratified.

From a practical standpoint, it is never going to be ruled invalid, so the statements presented in the article linked aren't really significant in practice.


----------



## Greenbeard

The Chicago Gun Ban is coming back? Or, uh, was never unconstitutional?


----------



## LilOlLady

xotoxi said:


> Repealing the 14th amendment would get very expensive.
> 
> Think of how many claims would be filed against the US Government by southern farmers for reimbursement for loss of slaves.



Kind of like giving citizenship to children of illegal aliens? Already expensive. Kind of like deporting illegal aliens? so they are released?
It can be amended to include slaves and not illegal aliens. The 14th amendendment had nothing to do with ending slavery, but give citizenship to ex slaves.


----------



## ConHog

What a load of bunk

   1. Connecticut (June 25, 1866)
   2. New Hampshire (July 6, 1866)
   3. Tennessee (July 19, 1866)
   4. New Jersey (September 11, 1866)*
   5. Oregon (September 19, 1866)
   6. Vermont (October 30, 1866)
   7. Ohio (January 4, 1867)*
   8. New York (January 10, 1867)
   9. Kansas (January 11, 1867)
  10. Illinois (January 15, 1867)
  11. West Virginia (January 16, 1867)
  12. Michigan (January 16, 1867)
  13. Minnesota (January 16, 1867)
  14. Maine (January 19, 1867)
  15. Nevada (January 22, 1867)
  16. Indiana (January 23, 1867)
  17. Missouri (January 25, 1867)
  18. Rhode Island (February 7, 1867)
  19. Wisconsin (February 7, 1867)
  20. Pennsylvania (February 12, 1867)
  21. Massachusetts (March 20, 1867)
  22. Nebraska (June 15, 1867)
  23. Iowa (March 16, 1868)
  24. Arkansas (April 6, 1868)
  25. Florida (June 9, 1868)
  26. North Carolina (July 4, 1868, after having rejected it on December 14, 1866)
  27. Louisiana (July 9, 1868, after having rejected it on February 6, 1867)
  28. South Carolina (July 9, 1868, after having rejected it on December 20, 1866)

Ohio and NJ tried to rescind their ratifications, which could have legally made ratification a mess but

   1. Alabama (July 13, 1868, the date the ratification was "approved" by the governor)
   2. Georgia (July 21, 1868, after having rejected it on November 9, 1866)

before any such cases could be heard these two states ratified the Amendment, giving Steward the 28 he needed and so on July 28, 1866 the 14th was declared to be part of the COTUS.


----------



## jillian

LilOlLady said:


> There is No "Fourteenth Amendment"!
> by halley » Wed Aug 04, 2010 722
> 
> There is No "Fourteenth Amendment"!



moron. 

this issue has been disposed of so many times.


----------



## GHook93

Earth to stupid the 13th amendment is the one that ended slavery!



xotoxi said:


> Repealing the 14th amendment would get very expensive.
> 
> Think of how many claims would be filed against the US Government by southern farmers for reimbursement for loss of slaves.


----------



## ConHog

allow me to add

   1. Virginia (October 8, 1869, after having rejected it on January 9, 1867)
   2. Mississippi (January 17, 1870)
   3. Texas (February 18, 1870, after having rejected it on October 27, 1866)
   4. Delaware (February 12, 1901, after having rejected it on February 7, 1867)
   5. Maryland (1959)
   6. California (1959)
   7. Oregon (1973, after withdrawing it on October 15, 1868)
   8. Kentucky (1976, after having rejected it on January 8, 1867)
   9. New Jersey (2003, after having rescinded on February 20, 1868)
  10. Ohio (2003, after having rescinded on January 15, 1868)


But if any of the southern states want to claim they did not ratify the 14th, hey that's cool then by the conditions of The Reconstruction Act they did not fulfill their obligations and thus were never eligible for re entry to the Union and probably owe trillions of dollars to the federal government and oh yeah their citizens are no longer US citizens, I doubt anyone wants to go that route.


----------



## JBeukema

xotoxi said:


> Repealing the 14th amendment would get very expensive.
> 
> Think of how many claims would be filed against the US Government by southern farmers for reimbursement for loss of slaves.


you're an idiot


----------



## Toome

Couple points:

I see the 14th amendment as the Constitution's equivalent of the infield fly rule.  It's a good rule.  We shouldn't repeal it just because we don't like the brown-skinned guy who automatically got to third base on an infield pop-up.

Second point:  when does this type of "change with the times" argument make sense and when is it just an attempt to subvert the inalienable rights that make this country unique and special?  If we ought to abolish the 14th amendment because the specific circumstances that prompted its creation no longer apply, then let's just kill the 2nd amendment, too, since those who are called to organize militias are issued government weapons and don't need to bring their own.  I don't believe that the 2nd amendment ought to be repealed.  My point is that you can't use one line of argument to make one point and then forsake it to defend another.  That's pretty disingenuous bordering on retarded.


----------



## Navy1960

14th Amendment does not need to be changed,  perhaps a better solution is to enforce the laws  rather than look the other way.  It seems to me that if our nation can pour billions  upon billions into the rebuilding of other nations we can at the very least direct some of that funding to protecting our own by enforcing the laws and keep the border safe. That does not take  striking the 14th Amendment  from the constitution.


----------



## Walt

Dude said:


> YoungLefty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah..that consitution shit..makes me really scratch my head and wonder, "what the fuck is wrong with this country"?
> 
> 
> 
> Schmucks like you hiding behind the Constitution is the lowest form of sanctimony there is, junior.
Click to expand...


He tries to hide behind the Constitution while at the same time ignoring it's intent. There is no such legal citizenship awarded to "anchor babies". I listen to those who wrote the Constitution for the intent of it.

"Every Person born within the limits of the United States, and _subject to their jurisdiction_, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. _This will not, of course_, include persons born in the United States who are _foreigners, aliens,_ who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.
Senator Jacob Howard, Co-author of the citizenship clause of the 14th Amendment, 1866.


----------



## Madeline

Does this mean Dude is over his love affair with the 10th Amendment?

LilOleLady, you need to tell us exactly why you hate Mexicans so much and quit beating around the bush.  If you or yours have been harmed in some way, we might sympathize....but demonizing the whole illegal immigrant population every damned day with a new (and ever-more silly) thread ain't doing a thing to advance your POV.

WTF is the problem, Ma'am?


----------



## Madeline

Walt said:


> Dude said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YoungLefty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah..that consitution shit..makes me really scratch my head and wonder, "what the fuck is wrong with this country"?
> 
> 
> 
> Schmucks like you hiding behind the Constitution is the lowest form of sanctimony there is, junior.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He tries to hide behind the Constitution while at the same time ignoring it's intent. There is no such legal citizenship awarded to "anchor babies". I listen to those who wrote the Constitution for the intent of it.
> 
> "Every Person born within the limits of the United States, and _subject to their jurisdiction_, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. _This will not, of course_, include persons born in the United States who are _foreigners, aliens,_ who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.
> Senator Jacob Howard, Co-author of the citizenship clause of the 14th Amendment, 1866.
Click to expand...


You "listen" to them?  Are you channeling them, Walt?

Apparently you do not listen well.  The children of illegal immigrants are not members of the families of foreign ministers, you dolt.  They are US citizens.


----------



## topspin

What a patriot "not my president" lofl
The 14th ain't changing, and don't fuck with my gridlock by trying to run on this or overturning Obama. Grow a pair and get a new idea.


----------



## Annie

YoungLefty said:


> Dude said:
> 
> 
> 
> He wasn't "my president", junior.
> 
> I haven't voted for a single remocrat or depublican since '94.
> 
> You should've picked up a program when you came in the door.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You may not have voted for him, but you sure get awful defensive when someone brings him up.. Just sayin'
Click to expand...


Bitching about Bush at this juncture has as much weight as bringing up kerfuffle of Obama's birth certificate, it's just irrelevant.


----------



## ConHog

Sounds like some people need to read the 14th and then read Wong and then realize that all we need is a case brought before the SCOTUS and if they deem that yes "anchor babies" are citizens then as much as some of you fools don't like it, we do have the right to Amend the COTUS if we as a group want to. Those who claim that changing the COTUS is wrong are the stupid ones.


----------



## Charles_Main

LilOlLady said:


> *14TH AMENDMENT NO LONGER NEEDED*
> 
> &#12288;
> 
> The 14th amendment has *long served it purpose *and is *no longer needed*. It was brought forth to *ensure citizenship for newly freed slaves*. Since we no longer have *&#8220;newly freed slaves*&#8221; the 14th amendment is no longer needed and should be eliminated. It is now being *gravely mis-used *to give citizenship to children of illegal aliens and* American born children of illegal aliens are not newly freed slaves *and the *14th amendment do not apply to them.*
> I am with Lindsey Graham on this one. It is no longer needed and is only an* incentive *for illegal aliens women to come here to drop their babies here in hope they can be *anchors for them. *Children here born to illegal aliens should be *citizens of their parents country.*




No Amendment is EVER eliminated. Every Amendment ever passed is still on the books for a reason. 

A REMINDER to future Generations of Mistakes made. 

You can only Negate an Amendment with Another Amendment. You can not "eliminate" an Amendment. 

For Example the Amendment that Made Alcohol illegal is still on the Books, and is simply Negated by an Amendment that Repealed it. It is there to remind us if we ever decide to out law Booze again, that we have been there and done that, and it didn't work out so well. It is important to Read the Entire Document for this reason as well, because you can not assume an amendment is still law until you have read them all and made sure none have negated the others. 

Why do you think we never removed the part that Said Slaves were 2/3 of a person? Would it not make more sense to expunge that from the Record. Our Founding fathers did not think so, They wanted Reminders left in. That is why you can not eliminate an Amendment you can only Override it with another. 

That said, I agree in principle with the Fact that the 14TH amendment is often Abused. People Regularly Attempt to Come Here illegally and then Have Children. We need to Amend it to somehow stop that Practice for sure.


----------



## topspin

The Klan will fail at this attempt.


----------



## Angelhair

_Without the constitution, this country is dead.  What we have to stop is letting people hold us hostage with this 'gd piece of paper'.  Liberals love to interprete it as a give-away-the-USA document; the conservatives cling to it like they do the bible._


----------



## Angelhair

_Time to get rid of the Anchor Baby perk!_


----------



## topspin

Thanks Klan princess


----------



## Madeline

Charles_Main said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *14TH AMENDMENT NO LONGER NEEDED*
> 
> &#12288;
> 
> The 14th amendment has *long served it purpose *and is *no longer needed*. It was brought forth to *ensure citizenship for newly freed slaves*. Since we no longer have *newly freed slaves* the 14th amendment is no longer needed and should be eliminated. It is now being *gravely mis-used *to give citizenship to children of illegal aliens and* American born children of illegal aliens are not newly freed slaves *and the *14th amendment do not apply to them.*
> I am with Lindsey Graham on this one. It is no longer needed and is only an* incentive *for illegal aliens women to come here to drop their babies here in hope they can be *anchors for them. *Children here born to illegal aliens should be *citizens of their parents country.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No Amendment is EVER eliminated. Every Amendment ever passed is still on the books for a reason.
> 
> A REMINDER to future Generations of Mistakes made.
> 
> You can only Negate an Amendment with Another Amendment. You can not "eliminate" an Amendment.
> 
> For Example the Amendment that Made Alcohol illegal is still on the Books, and is simply Negated by an Amendment that Repealed it. It is there to remind us if we ever decide to out law Booze again, that we have been there and done that, and it didn't work out so well. It is important to Read the Entire Document for this reason as well, because you can not assume an amendment is still law until you have read them all and made sure none have negated the others.
> 
> Why do you think we never removed the part that Said Slaves were 2/3 of a person? Would it not make more sense to expunge that from the Record. Our Founding fathers did not think so, They wanted Reminders left in. That is why you can not eliminate an Amendment you can only Override it with another.
> 
> That said, I agree in principle with the Fact that the 14TH amendment is often Abused. People Regularly Attempt to Come Here illegally and then Have Children. We need to Amend it to somehow stop that Practice for sure.
Click to expand...


Capitalize much?


----------



## Walt

Madeline said:


> Walt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude said:
> 
> 
> 
> Schmucks like you hiding behind the Constitution is the lowest form of sanctimony there is, junior.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He tries to hide behind the Constitution while at the same time ignoring it's intent. There is no such legal citizenship awarded to "anchor babies". I listen to those who wrote the Constitution for the intent of it.
> 
> "Every Person born within the limits of the United States, and _subject to their jurisdiction_, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. _This will not, of course_, include persons born in the United States who are _foreigners, aliens,_ who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.
> Senator Jacob Howard, Co-author of the citizenship clause of the 14th Amendment, 1866.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You "listen" to them?  Are you channeling them, Walt?
> 
> Apparently you do not listen well.  The children of illegal immigrants are not members of the families of foreign ministers, you dolt.  They are US citizens.
Click to expand...


They are foreigners/aliens. So they are not included. Who I channel is none of your business. You doltess.


----------



## Madeline

"Doltess"?  

I kinda like that Walt...it's quaint.


----------



## rdean

Republicans are "strict constructionist".  Except they want to rewrite the constitution.

Hispanics know they've been targeted and they know by whom.  They won't forget.


----------



## bodecea

YoungLefty said:


> What about signs like this?:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh..We support the constitution!!!
> ......Except for the part that gives the brown babies a chance at the american dream..



Oh...We support the constitution!!!

.....Except for the part that gives gays equal rights with heteros.


----------



## LilOlLady

*AMERICAS TRAGIC MISTAKE
AUTOMATIC BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP*
For children of illegal aliens. It is a mistake that Americans have paid a high price for, a *tragic mistake and insult to descendants of slaves *who had to earn citizenship with 200 years of free labor. 500,000 children who parents are subject to the jurisdiction of Mexico, did nothing but *steal their way into this country.*

*The 14th Amendment did not exist before 1868 so it do not apply to those who entered this country prior to that date*. Before there were any immigration laws. Those that come in through *Ellis Island *had to register and were allowed to enter.* Some were not allow to enter.*

*Poverty do not justify thief.* Those who love GOD and neighbor realize that *stealing is never justified*. Mark 12;28-31.


----------



## Charles_Main

bodecea said:


> YoungLefty said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about signs like this?:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh..We support the constitution!!!
> ......Except for the part that gives the brown babies a chance at the american dream..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh...We support the constitution!!!
> 
> .....Except for the part that gives gays equal rights with heteros.
Click to expand...


Exactly where does the constitution Guarantee anyone's right to marry anyone else? It does not. That was a power left to the states. Plain and simple. 

What I find funny is when a VERY LIBERAL state like California Votes against their right to marry. You guys try and blame it on conservatives.

You know why Cali voted they way they did? Because while the large Hispanic Population in Cali tends to vote Democrat. They also tend to be SOCIALLY conservative. It was Hispanics in Cali that caused their Ban on Gay marriage to pass, not conservatives.


----------



## rdean

Charles_Main said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YoungLefty said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about signs like this?:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh..We support the constitution!!!
> ......Except for the part that gives the brown babies a chance at the american dream..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh...We support the constitution!!!
> 
> .....Except for the part that gives gays equal rights with heteros.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly where does the constitution Guarantee anyone's right to marry anyone else? It does not. That was a power left to the states. Plain and simple.
> 
> What I find funny is when a VERY LIBERAL state like California Votes against their right to marry. You guys try and blame it on conservatives.
> 
> You know why Cali voted they way they did? Because while the large Hispanic Population in Cali tends to vote Democrat. They also tend to be SOCIALLY conservative. It was Hispanics in Cali that caused their Ban on Gay marriage to pass, not conservatives.
Click to expand...


When did it become "American" to vote on "civil rights"?


----------



## Luissa

This thread is a prime example of why we still need the 14th amendment.


----------



## ConHog

Madeline said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *14TH AMENDMENT NO LONGER NEEDED*
> 
> &#12288;
> 
> The 14th amendment has *long served it purpose *and is *no longer needed*. It was brought forth to *ensure citizenship for newly freed slaves*. Since we no longer have *newly freed slaves* the 14th amendment is no longer needed and should be eliminated. It is now being *gravely mis-used *to give citizenship to children of illegal aliens and* American born children of illegal aliens are not newly freed slaves *and the *14th amendment do not apply to them.*
> I am with Lindsey Graham on this one. It is no longer needed and is only an* incentive *for illegal aliens women to come here to drop their babies here in hope they can be *anchors for them. *Children here born to illegal aliens should be *citizens of their parents country.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No Amendment is EVER eliminated. Every Amendment ever passed is still on the books for a reason.
> 
> A REMINDER to future Generations of Mistakes made.
> 
> You can only Negate an Amendment with Another Amendment. You can not "eliminate" an Amendment.
> 
> For Example the Amendment that Made Alcohol illegal is still on the Books, and is simply Negated by an Amendment that Repealed it. It is there to remind us if we ever decide to out law Booze again, that we have been there and done that, and it didn't work out so well. It is important to Read the Entire Document for this reason as well, because you can not assume an amendment is still law until you have read them all and made sure none have negated the others.
> 
> Why do you think we never removed the part that Said Slaves were 2/3 of a person? Would it not make more sense to expunge that from the Record. Our Founding fathers did not think so, They wanted Reminders left in. That is why you can not eliminate an Amendment you can only Override it with another.
> 
> That said, I agree in principle with the Fact that the 14TH amendment is often Abused. People Regularly Attempt to Come Here illegally and then Have Children. We need to Amend it to somehow stop that Practice for sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Capitalize much?
Click to expand...


That's all you ever have isn't it? The discussion is too cerebral for you, but you can't just keep quiet, so you have to attack.

The man made a perfectly valid point, who gives a shit if his capitalization was a little suspect. Should I start editing your posts for grammar, punctuation , and spelling from now on?


----------



## ConHog

rdean said:


> Republicans are "strict constructionist".  Except they want to rewrite the constitution.
> 
> Hispanics know they've been targeted and they know by whom.  They won't forget.



Hey peabrain. i am a strict Constitutionalists , guess what that means? It means I understand that the COTUS in fact allows us to amend it. 

MORON.


----------



## ConHog

rdean said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh...We support the constitution!!!
> 
> .....Except for the part that gives gays equal rights with heteros.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly where does the constitution Guarantee anyone's right to marry anyone else? It does not. That was a power left to the states. Plain and simple.
> 
> What I find funny is when a VERY LIBERAL state like California Votes against their right to marry. You guys try and blame it on conservatives.
> 
> You know why Cali voted they way they did? Because while the large Hispanic Population in Cali tends to vote Democrat. They also tend to be SOCIALLY conservative. It was Hispanics in Cali that caused their Ban on Gay marriage to pass, not conservatives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did it become "American" to vote on "civil rights"?
Click to expand...


No one  has a constitutional right to marry END OF DISCUSSION. And before you start with your shit, I have been very clear. I believe the vote in CA never should have taken place because I do not believe that the state can offer a state can offer a license to one group , but not another BUT claiming that as a right is wrong. California COULD decide that they won't license marriage at all anymore, and that would be constitutionally legal, because they are not required to do so. Not for gays, and not for straights.


----------



## Liberty

pretty sure marriage is a religious institution. it should be up to the church and the government should stay the fuck out.


----------



## Madeline

Makes a great slogan Liberty...but no damned sense.  Government is uniquely poised to determine who has custody of minor children.  Who inherits property.  Who gets a tax break a la marriage.  Who can bring a lawsuit on behalf of another.  Etc.

Yanno....the rights and duties that flow from "marriage" and "family"?  Unless, of course, you think "family" is an antiquated, outmoded, anti-American idea as well.


----------



## SW2SILVER

I like the 14th amendment. If it werent for all those sneaky illegals from Mexico,  why bother? I bother. I know what assholes they are. And that isn't a opinion, it is a fact. They hate  you  gringos. Hate might be a strong word. They prefer to ignore you, with prejudice, call it that. I prefer NOT to ignore their ignorance.  I want them to immigrate legally, and forget about their  excuses. I know the 14th amendment  full well. So do Wetters. It is why they are here.


----------



## LilOlLady

*U.S. CITIZENSHIP FOR SALE*

&#12288;

Chinese pay $20,000 to come to this country, have their babies and go home and that child is a U.S. citizenship for ever. Other wealthy foreigners does the same thing.

Mexican women pay to be brought across the border to an American hospital just to have their baby so it can be a U.S. citizen.

This is what the 14th amendment does to U.S. citizenship. It causes mis-use and cheapens U.S. citizenship. That is a very good, sound and economically reason why the 14th Amendment should be correctly interpreted, rescinded, repealed retroactive. Nullify and void all automatic birthright citizenship since 1868.

Illegal aliens steal across the border with children, but when they want to take them back to Mexico with them, they go to the embassy and get papers to get them in legally. They do not sneak them into Mexico. Because Mexico will not take the B.S. that we do.


----------



## Douger

LilOlLady said:


> *AMERICAS TRAGIC MISTAKE
> AUTOMATIC BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP*
> For children of illegal aliens. It is a mistake that Americans have paid a high price for, a *tragic mistake and insult to descendants of slaves *who had to earn citizenship with 200 years of free labor. 500,000 children who parents are subject to the jurisdiction of Mexico, did nothing but *steal their way into this country.*
> 
> *The 14th Amendment did not exist before 1868 so it do not apply to those who entered this country prior to that date*. Before there were any immigration laws. Those that come in through *Ellis Island *had to register and were allowed to enter.* Some were not allow to enter.*
> 
> *Poverty do not justify thief.* Those who love GOD and neighbor realize that *stealing is never justified*. Mark 12;28-31.


Give the kids their crack back. OK ?


----------



## chanel

> Still, the debate could resonate in Texas, where not only 1.5 million illegal immigrants are estimated to reside but at least 60,000 babies are added to their households annually.
> 
> Parkland Memorial Hospital delivers more of those babies than any other hospital in the state. Last year at Parkland, 11,071 babies were born to women who were noncitizens, about 74 percent of total deliveries. Most of these women are believed to be in the country illegally.



Across Texas, 60,000 babies of noncitizens get U.S. birthright | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Latest News

60,000 births paid for by the taxpayers.  60,000 children receiving healthcare and education.  120,000 parents using these children as an argument for amnesty.  Stop the madness already.


----------



## Bullfighter

chanel said:


> Still, the debate could resonate in Texas, where not only 1.5 million illegal immigrants are estimated to reside but at least 60,000 babies are added to their households annually.
> 
> Parkland Memorial Hospital delivers more of those babies than any other hospital in the state. Last year at Parkland, 11,071 babies were born to women who were noncitizens, about 74 percent of total deliveries. Most of these women are believed to be in the country illegally.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Across Texas, 60,000 babies of noncitizens get U.S. birthright | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Latest News
> 
> 60,000 births paid for by the taxpayers.  60,000 children receiving healthcare and education.  120,000 parents using these children as an argument for amnesty.  Stop the madness already.
Click to expand...


Send the bill to Mexico!


----------



## LilOlLady

The sad thing about all this is it will go on as usual. Nothing will change no matter how much we complain until it hits the white house and congress personally. If an illegal alien raped or killed one of their family members only then can we maybe see a change. A white house drive by.


----------



## Tom Clancy

I thought the Constitution was not to be changed, but obeyed? 

Well, that's what everybody keeps saying.. Or, just obey what you see fit?


----------



## ABikerSailor

LilOlLady said:


> *U.S. CITIZENSHIP FOR SALE*
> 
> &#12288;
> 
> Chinese pay $20,000 to come to this country, have their babies and go home and that child is a U.S. citizenship for ever. Other wealthy foreigners does the same thing.
> 
> Mexican women pay to be brought across the border to an American hospital just to have their baby so it can be a U.S. citizen.
> 
> This is what the 14th amendment does to U.S. citizenship. It causes mis-use and cheapens U.S. citizenship. That is a very good, sound and economically reason why the 14th Amendment should be correctly interpreted, rescinded, repealed retroactive. Nullify and void all automatic birthright citizenship since 1868.
> 
> Illegal aliens steal across the border with children, but when they want to take them back to Mexico with them, they go to the embassy and get papers to get them in legally. They do not sneak them into Mexico. Because Mexico will not take the B.S. that we do.



Right..........you want to repeal the 14th ammendment retroactively to 1868.

Lemmie guess, you want all the Native Americans to be kicked out as well?  That, and freed slaves is why it was passed in the first place!

Don't tell me......lemmie guess.......you're one of them tea baggin racists that only stands up for white people.

Careful Big Ol Bitch, your true colors are showing.


----------



## chanel

In does not need to be repealed; just interpreted CORRECTLY.



> In 1889, the Wong Kim Ark Supreme Court case once again, in a ruling based strictly on the 14th  Amendment, concluded that the status of the parents was crucial in determining the citizenship of the child. The current misinterpretation of the 14th Amendment is based in part upon the presumption that the Wong Kim Ark ruling encompassed illegal aliens. In fact, it did not address the children of illegal aliens and non-immigrant aliens, but rather determined an allegiance for legal immigrant parents based on the meaning of the word domicil(e). Since it is inconceivable that illegal alien parents could have a legal  domicile in the United States, the ruling clearly did not extend birthright citizenship to children of illegal alien parents. Indeed, the ruling strengthened the original intent of the 14th Amendment.



The 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution - Fourteenth Amendment - anchor babies and birthright citizenship - interpretations and misinterpretations - US Constitution


----------



## Terral

Hi Abb:



abb.26kars said:


> This should be an important integral part of Comprehensive Immigration Reform.  However since, those 3 words arent really about doing what is best for the United States and it's citizens.....it will be opposed tooth and nail by the Left, its gaggle of minority groups...also known as the Democrat Party.



Comprehensive Immigration Reform is the Open Border Lobby buzzword for "*Illegal Amnesty*." We already had 'Comprehensive Amnesty' handed out in 1986, which gave us the *Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986* (Wiki). The USA needs NO Immigration Reform. ZERO!!!! The USA needs '*enforcement*' of perfectly good Immigration, Employment and Document Fraud Laws already on the books! 

Congress and the Obama Administration have NO CREDIBILITY in the enforcement department! Handing out Illegal Amnesty to more than a million Illegal Aliens 'and' their Illegal Employers 'and' those aiding, abetting and harboring them, gave us 20 Million goddamned Illegal Aliens acting as the Corporate America Illegal Alien Labor Pool. The unscrupulous Americans 'hiring' the Illegal Aliens are in bed with both Houses of the corrupt Congress and the out-of-control Fascist Obama Administration, which is the reason so many law-abiding Americans are out of work.

Just the idea of handing out a new round of "*Illegal Amnesty*" as a reward to those coming here in the middle of the night through the back door is enough to make me puke up my cookies. Giving away U.S. Citizenship to 20 Million goddamned Illegal Aliens will give us 100 Million Illegals before you can blink an eye ...

GL,

Terral


----------



## ConHog

ABikerSailor said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *U.S. CITIZENSHIP FOR SALE*
> 
> &#12288;
> 
> Chinese pay $20,000 to come to this country, have their babies and go home and that child is a U.S. citizenship for ever. Other wealthy foreigners does the same thing.
> 
> Mexican women pay to be brought across the border to an American hospital just to have their baby so it can be a U.S. citizen.
> 
> This is what the 14th amendment does to U.S. citizenship. It causes mis-use and cheapens U.S. citizenship. That is a very good, sound and economically reason why the 14th Amendment should be correctly interpreted, rescinded, repealed retroactive. Nullify and void all automatic birthright citizenship since 1868.
> 
> Illegal aliens steal across the border with children, but when they want to take them back to Mexico with them, they go to the embassy and get papers to get them in legally. They do not sneak them into Mexico. Because Mexico will not take the B.S. that we do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right..........you want to repeal the 14th ammendment retroactively to 1868.
> 
> Lemmie guess, you want all the Native Americans to be kicked out as well?  That, and freed slaves is why it was passed in the first place!
> 
> Don't tell me......lemmie guess.......you're one of them tea baggin racists that only stands up for white people.
> 
> Careful Big Ol Bitch, your true colors are showing.
Click to expand...


Actually Native Americans did not automatically qualify.

And no one is calling for anything retroactive. If you're a US citizen now, you won't lose your citizenship if the Amendment is clarified.


----------



## uscitizen

The US has always been a lot about money.

You used to be able to buy your way out of being drafted for military service.  Openly and above board not like during Nam.


----------



## ABikerSailor

ConHog said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *U.S. CITIZENSHIP FOR SALE*
> 
> &#12288;
> 
> Chinese pay $20,000 to come to this country, have their babies and go home and that child is a U.S. citizenship for ever. Other wealthy foreigners does the same thing.
> 
> Mexican women pay to be brought across the border to an American hospital just to have their baby so it can be a U.S. citizen.
> 
> This is what the 14th amendment does to U.S. citizenship. It causes mis-use and cheapens U.S. citizenship. *That is a very good, sound and economically reason why the 14th Amendment should be correctly interpreted, rescinded, repealed retroactive. Nullify and void all automatic birthright citizenship since 1868.*
> Illegal aliens steal across the border with children, but when they want to take them back to Mexico with them, they go to the embassy and get papers to get them in legally. They do not sneak them into Mexico. Because Mexico will not take the B.S. that we do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right..........you want to repeal the 14th ammendment retroactively to 1868.
> 
> Lemmie guess, you want all the Native Americans to be kicked out as well?  That, and freed slaves is why it was passed in the first place!
> 
> Don't tell me......lemmie guess.......you're one of them tea baggin racists that only stands up for white people.
> 
> Careful Big Ol Bitch, your true colors are showing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually Native Americans did not automatically qualify.
> 
> And no one is calling for anything retroactive. If you're a US citizen now, you won't lose your citizenship if the Amendment is clarified.
Click to expand...


What part of the big bolded part did you miss Con Hog?  If she's got her way, ALL Native Americans and almost ALL blacks will be stripped of their citizenship.


----------



## Againsheila

Tom Clancy said:


> I thought the Constitution was not to be changed, but obeyed?
> 
> Well, that's what everybody keeps saying.. Or, just obey what you see fit?



When the constitution was written, our forefathers expect it to be rewritten every so  often as they admitted that they could not know the future.

The 14th Amendment specifically says "under the jurisdiction thereof", since the first thing we have to do when we arrest an illegal is call the Mexican consulate, it's pretty clear they aren't under our jurisdiction and this goes for their kids as well.


----------



## LilOlLady

POVERTY DO NOT JUSTIFY THIEF.

Those that came thorough Ellis Island registered and were admitted legally. They were immigrants and those that steal across the border are Illegal Aliens and the are not welcome as the inscription on the statue of liberty say;


"Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


Illegal aliens do not fit any of the above. They are neither poor or starving, tired, imprisoned, refuse or homeless. They are not refugees seeking political asylum. They just want a better life than they have in Mexico. I want a better life than I have but it do not give me the right to break the law and steal. Our prisons are full of thieves. 

They come for a better life, the steal across the border, steal jobs, education, citizenship for their children, welfare benefits, etc

Poverty do not justify thief. Those who love GOD and neighbor realize that stealing is never justified. Mark 12;28-31. Being poor is not an excuse for breaking the law.


Automatic Birthright Citizenship is stealing.


----------



## LilOlLady

ILLEGAL ALIENS DO PAY TAXES.

If they work for legit businesses they pay taxes. According to rhetoric they pay lots of taxes and they don&#8217;t pay taxes. Depending who it benefits at the time. Sometimes they are paid under the table and that will not stop with amnesty. Some Americans are paid under the table for some jobs. If they are legalized they will pay *LESS* taxes because of earned tax breaks and income tax returns because they are law wage earners and pay very little in taxes if any. Plus their anchor babies receive more in benefits than they parent pay in taxes.
They are needed to pay social security for baby bombers? If they are legalizes who will pay their social security and social security for their anchor babies?
Legalized aliens will receive more in social security benefits then they ever could have paid into the system. And if they bring their elderly parents here, they will receive benefit and never had paid into the system.
No way will Americans win when 20 million illegal aliens are made legal.


----------



## Mad Scientist

Illegals also buy and sell to each other thus avoiding the tax. They buy and sell at garage sales thus avoiding the tax. They have home based businesses thus avoiding the tax. They don't pay fees or get inspections on their food carts they push around town either. 

I was at a small "mom and pop" grocery store at the California/Nevada and bought a few snack items. The total didn't include tax so I asked the girl behind the counter why. She turned around to talk to an older woman behind the counter in spanish then said to me: "No tax".

Unless the illegals buy something at a legitimate store like a WalMart or 7/11, they're not paying taxes.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Illegal Immigrants are Paying a Lot More Taxes Than You Think*

*Eight million illegals pay Social Security, Medicare, and income taxes*
Reason Foundation - Illegal Immigrants are Paying a Lot More Taxes Than You Think

I don't believe they pay as much in taxes as alleged and they do receive more in benefits than they pay into the system.


----------



## Bullfighter

Let's see. I live alone in a 2-flat and pay almost twice what a single family home pays. No American in their right mind would rent to these people unless you have a death wish.

One of the many owners of a single family home converted it into a Tamale Hilton. The normal living space that one walks up a flight of stairs to is one family. The basement is now for a second family. And the attic is for a third family. Three families that split the taxes on a single family home and me in my 2 flat paying almost SIX TIMES what the Tamale Hilton pays. That is justice. MEXICAN JUSTICE.

Oh And of course the many children there will get that free K-12 education that cost around $185,000/student a few years ago. And most of that will be paid by state and federal funds. Only 25% is local/real estate taxes.

Now tell us how those Mexicans pay their FAIR SHARE?


----------



## Ravi

LilOlLady said:


> ILLEGAL ALIENS DO PAY TAXES.
> 
> If they work for legit businesses they pay taxes. According to rhetoric they pay lots of taxes and they dont pay taxes. Depending who it benefits at the time. Sometimes they are paid under the table and that will not stop with amnesty. Some Americans are paid under the table for some jobs. If they are legalized they will pay *LESS* taxes because of earned tax breaks and income tax returns because they are law wage earners and pay very little in taxes if any. Plus their anchor babies receive more in benefits than they parent pay in taxes.
> They are needed to pay social security for baby bombers? If they are legalizes who will pay their social security and social security for their anchor babies?
> Legalized aliens will receive more in social security benefits then they ever could have paid into the system. And if they bring their elderly parents here, they will receive benefit and never had paid into the system.
> No way will Americans win when 20 million illegal aliens are made legal.


SS payments are based on what you paid in...and non-Americans don't get SS benefits.

Are you going to post this shit every week?


----------



## Ravi

Mad Scientist said:


> Illegals also buy and sell to each other thus avoiding the tax. *They buy and sell at garage sales thus avoiding the tax. *They have home based businesses thus avoiding the tax. They don't pay fees or get inspections on their food carts they push around town either.
> 
> I was at a small "mom and pop" grocery store at the California/Nevada and bought a few snack items. The total didn't include tax so I asked the girl behind the counter why. She turned around to talk to an older woman behind the counter in spanish then said to me: "No tax".
> 
> Unless the illegals buy something at a legitimate store like a WalMart or 7/11, they're not paying taxes.


OMFG the HORROR!


----------



## Bullfighter

Ravi said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> ILLEGAL ALIENS DO PAY TAXES.
> 
> If they work for legit businesses they pay taxes. According to rhetoric they pay lots of taxes and they dont pay taxes. Depending who it benefits at the time. Sometimes they are paid under the table and that will not stop with amnesty. Some Americans are paid under the table for some jobs. If they are legalized they will pay *LESS* taxes because of earned tax breaks and income tax returns because they are law wage earners and pay very little in taxes if any. Plus their anchor babies receive more in benefits than they parent pay in taxes.
> They are needed to pay social security for baby bombers? If they are legalizes who will pay their social security and social security for their anchor babies?
> Legalized aliens will receive more in social security benefits then they ever could have paid into the system. And if they bring their elderly parents here, they will receive benefit and never had paid into the system.
> No way will Americans win when 20 million illegal aliens are made legal.
> 
> 
> 
> SS payments are based on what you paid in...and non-Americans don't get SS benefits.
> 
> Are you going to post this shit every week?
Click to expand...


Absolutely wrong! My neighbor's child gets $674 a month from the gov and he never worked a day in his life, but he is Mexican.


----------



## Avorysuds

HAhAhahahaha...

So, we should be in a never ending boom right? I mean Illegals are beyond great for the country. But wait, with 18 million illegals I'm going to have to ask, when does the ecconomy stop tanking?


----------



## dixierat

LilOlLady said:


> *Illegal Immigrants are Paying a Lot More Taxes Than You Think*
> 
> *Eight million illegals pay Social Security, Medicare, and income taxes*
> Reason Foundation - Illegal Immigrants are Paying a Lot More Taxes Than You Think
> 
> I don't believe they pay as much in taxes as alleged and they do receive more in benefits than they pay into the system.



Tha maroon is pertinent. The rest is not. They're here ILLEGALLY. That means they have broken the law.

This stuff is really simple, ya know.


----------



## LilOlLady

*DISABLED ANCHOR BABIES*

If someone breaks into your home, falls and is disabled are you responsibly for his disability for life? A woman comes into this country uninvited and have a child and we are responsible for that child for life?
How many anchor babies are born with disablities? That we are financially responsible for, for life? 
How many of those 20 million who are here illegally have disabled children or parents in Mexico that they will be able to bring here if they are given amnesty? 
*What responsibility does Mexico have for these people*? It seem that Mexico would have *some responsibility *for the 20 million that are here illegally?
There is just no end to this freaking nightmare and enough is enough already. And our county believe we should welcome this crap and stop complaining. I will, when hell freezes over.
I cannot find any infomation on handicap and disable anchor babies.



*Anchor babies and the California taxpayer bottom line*
Locust: It will not pass, the Mexicans control the legislature in CA, they will not allow this initiative to pass, you see anything that is good for white tax payers is bad for the Mexican official that have stolen our government, they will use our system to overcome this hurdle, the only true solution is not found within the law, we must rebel, and *****the enemy.
July 17, 7:41 AM · Kimberly Dvorak  San Diego County Political Buzz Examiner 
Ted Hilton and Bill Morrow 
San Diego- *The California Taxpayer Protection Act of 2010 *reports new numbers regarding the cost of babies born in California to illegal immigrants.
http://whitelocust.wordpress.com/20...e-california-taxpayer-protection-act-of-2010/


----------



## Coyote

Wow.  These people sure hate little brown children.


----------



## Ravi

LilOlLady said:


> *DISABLED ANCHOR BABIES*
> 
> If someone breaks into your home, falls and is disabled are you responsibly for his disability for life? A woman comes into this country uninvited and have a child and we are responsible for that child for life?
> How many anchor babies are born with disablities? That we are financially responsible for, for life?
> How many of those 20 million who are here illegally have disabled children or parents in Mexico that they will be able to bring here if they are given amnesty?
> *What responsibility does Mexico have for these people*? It seem that Mexico would have *some responsibility *for the 20 million that are here illegally?
> There is just no end to this freaking nightmare and enough is enough already. And our county believe we should welcome this crap and stop complaining. I will, when hell freezes over.
> I cannot find any infomation on handicap and disable anchor babies.
> 
> 
> 
> *Anchor babies and the California taxpayer bottom line*
> Locust: It will not pass, the Mexicans control the legislature in CA, they will not allow this initiative to pass, you see anything that is good for white tax payers is bad for the Mexican official that have stolen our government, they will use our system to overcome this hurdle, the only true solution is not found within the law, we must rebel, and *****the enemy.
> July 17, 7:41 AM · Kimberly Dvorak  San Diego County Political Buzz Examiner
> Ted Hilton and Bill Morrow
> San Diego- *The California Taxpayer Protection Act of 2010 *reports new numbers regarding the cost of babies born in California to illegal immigrants.
> http://whitelocust.wordpress.com/20...e-california-taxpayer-protection-act-of-2010/


I hope to God our tax dollars aren't supporting you.


----------



## LilOlLady

Ravi said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *DISABLED ANCHOR BABIES*
> 
> If someone breaks into your home, falls and is disabled are you responsibly for his disability for life? A woman comes into this country uninvited and have a child and we are responsible for that child for life?
> How many anchor babies are born with disablities? That we are financially responsible for, for life?
> How many of those 20 million who are here illegally have disabled children or parents in Mexico that they will be able to bring here if they are given amnesty?
> *What responsibility does Mexico have for these people*? It seem that Mexico would have *some responsibility *for the 20 million that are here illegally?
> There is just no end to this freaking nightmare and enough is enough already. And our county believe we should welcome this crap and stop complaining. I will, when hell freezes over.
> I cannot find any infomation on handicap and disable anchor babies.
> 
> 
> 
> *Anchor babies and the California taxpayer bottom line*
> Locust: It will not pass, the Mexicans control the legislature in CA, they will not allow this initiative to pass, you see anything that is good for white tax payers is bad for the Mexican official that have stolen our government, they will use our system to overcome this hurdle, the only true solution is not found within the law, we must rebel, and *****the enemy.
> July 17, 7:41 AM · Kimberly Dvorak  San Diego County Political Buzz Examiner
> Ted Hilton and Bill Morrow
> San Diego- *The California Taxpayer Protection Act of 2010 *reports new numbers regarding the cost of babies born in California to illegal immigrants.
> http://whitelocust.wordpress.com/20...e-california-taxpayer-protection-act-of-2010/
> 
> 
> 
> I hope to God our tax dollars aren't supporting you.
Click to expand...


Yes and doing a damn good job. I get social security, retirement from years of teaching disabled anchor babies, and being a member of the Chickasaw Nation, I get another check.

Thank you.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Anchor Babies: born in the USA - Enormous taxpayer costs*
Article by Stephany Gabbard and Frosty Wooldridge
July 9, 2004
Published on MICHnews.com 
Additional costs for illegal alien children stem from translators, advocates and middlemen. *MediCal* in 2003 sponsored 760,000 illegal aliens. *Supplemental Security Income *is a *non-means-treated federal grant of money and food stamps*. Be assured that* scams and fraud *run rampant. Over *500,000 mentally disabled kids are on drugs for ADHD and ODD*. One lady, Linda Torres was arrested in Bakersfield with *$8,500.00 *in small bills in her pocket. It was her* SSI lump award for her disability, which was heroin addition*. 

The French economist Frederic Bastiat said, "The unseen is more expensive than the seen." In Stockton, California, the *Silverio Family *was featured in the Wall Street Journal in 2003. They were* fruit pickers who arrived illegally *from Oxtotilan, Mexico in 1997. The wife, Felipa had three kids, but popped an anchor baby named Flor. The child was premature and spent three months in a neonatal incubator at a cost to the San Joaquin Hospital of over *$300,000.00*. They conceived another, Christian. The second baby made them eligible for $*1,000 per month welfare*. Because Flor is disabled, she receives *$600.00 monthly for asthma*. Although the illegal aliens made* $18,000.00 annually picking fruit,* they collected *$12,000.00 of your tax dollars *for their anchor babies. One night the *father, Cristobal crashed his van*. He had *no license or insurance. *Taxpayers paid for all hospital bills. Thats why 77 hospitals in border states were going bankrupt in 2003, but Senator John McCain wrote a rider into the Medicaid Bill for *$1.4 billion of your tax dollars*. It passed. Not to finish the spending spree on these anchor babies, the children attend California schools at a cost of *$7,000.00 per year over *and above what their parents pay in taxes. The cost for all five of their children for one school year exceeds *$35,000.00 times 18 years *for a grand taxpayer total of *$630,000.00. *This is only one family. No wonder California is *$38 billion in debt.* 
Additional costs for illegal alien 
Anchor


----------



## LilOlLady

If this does not bother some of you people, you freaking deserve it.


----------



## LilOlLady

Coyote said:


> Wow.  These people sure hate little brown children.



This is not about little brown children, We have our own brown children but why should be take care of Mexico's little brown children? Mexico has a responsiblity and we should hold the to it.


----------



## LilOlLady

*The amnesty program that tried and failed *Daniel González
The Arizona Republic
Oct. 8, 2006 12:00 AM 
By nearly all accounts, the 1986 amnesty legislation was a massive failure.

The law signed 20 years ago this November by President Ronald Reagan was supposed to put an end to illegal immigration. It granted amnesty to millions of undocumented immigrants, beefed up security along the U.S.-Mexican border and, for the first time, tried to punish employers of unlawful workers. The rationale was that illegal immigration would stop for good if the job magnet was cut off.

But employer sanctions never fully materialized, and illegal immigration soared. Congress remains torn on a resolution, and at the very heart of the debate lies sharp disagreement over the reasons the 1986 law failed. 
The amnesty program that tried and failed



*If the 1986 Amnesty was such a gross failure*, why would anyone try to do it again?
======================================
New INS Report:
*1986 Amnesty Increased Illegal Immigration*http://www.cis.org/articles/2000/ins1986


----------



## Coyote

LilOlLady said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.  These people sure hate little brown children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not about little brown children, We have our own brown children but why should be take care of Mexico's little brown children? Mexico has a responsiblity and we should hold the to it.
Click to expand...


Right.

Let me amend it.

You hate little kids


----------



## LilOlLady

Anchor Babies: Born in the USA *-- The Abuse of the Fourteenth Amendment *- Part I
Article by Stephany Gabbard and Frosty Wooldridge
July 6, 2004
Published on MICHnews.com. 
My commute to work exceeds fifty miles but it gives me time to reflect. It is 1987 and I am an obstetrical nurse working in the crowded San Fernando Valley of California. Tonight I drive to my job in "Labor and Delivery," knowing the scenario before I arrive. Eight other nurses will battle through the night in this very busy obstetrical unit. Our patients are* 99 percent pregnant illegal alien women *who have broken United States immigration law to birth an American citizen child.

This will be* their families' entry ticket into the United States*. For them, no pesky visa applications and no waiting in line for several years like so many millions that enter this country through the front door. Pregnant Third World women have discovered that the only thing they have to do is cross the U.S.--Mexico border. *The Fourteenth Amendment is their ticket. *It is now seventeen years later and things have worsened. The babies I helped deliver are older teenagers. *When they turn 21, they will be eligible to bring their family members from Mexico, Central America and South America, i.e., chain migration on an ever-accelerating spinning wheel.* Whole industries have now developed around *abusing the Fourteenth Amendment*. *Pregnant Korean tourists* come to the U.S. on travel visas to have their "anchor" babies. *Coyotes dealing in human traffic are paid $1,500.00 to $25,000.00 per person to shuttle pregnant illegal aliens across our southern border*. Our *politicians and elites wink at this blatant law breaking and do nothing*. The *colonization of our *country continues with the cooperation of our government. That means *your senator and representative aid this illegal baby invasion*. None dare call it treason. Most Americans mistakenly trust their politicians to do the right thing. *Congressional members from every state betray that trust daily.*

The Fourteenth Amendment: It's a simple document, a constitutional amendment drafted after the Civil War to assure that newly emancipated black slaves would never be denied citizenship by the States. The drafters had no idea that years later it would be used to make a mockery of our immigration laws. Alan Wall, an American journalist living in Mexico states,* "An illegal alien can cross the border, have a baby five minutes later, and that baby is automatically declared a citizen of the USA automatically."* 

The illegal aliens don't have to go through any legal doors. They are exempt from that. They are, in fact,* rewarded for disobeying U.S. laws by having their children granted automatic citizenship.* In addition, the happy family is entitled to *welfare benefits*. And, illegal alien parents who have children born in the U.S. are seldom deported. That's why their children are called "anchor babies" - they anchor their families securely in the USA.

It doesn't have to be this way. Most European countries have done away with birthright citizenship because they experienced the same abuses we are seeing. The Irish Supreme Court recently ruled that immigrant parents could be deported even if they have an Irish child. "It was becoming common for 'single pregnant woman' to come to Ireland from countries outside the 15-nation EU, most frequently from Nigeria, to claim political asylum," states Shawn Pogatchnik, AP writer. Ireland saw a wave of immigration abuse and promptly put a stop to it. Recently, the Irish voted to end birthright citizenship. Britain and Australia both changed their citizenship laws in the 1980's for the same reasons. If you are born in Switzerland you will not automatically become a Swiss citizen. *Why should Americans allow our country to be invaded by people who do not honor allegiance to our laws*?

Allegiance is the key word. Senator Jacob Howard, co-author of the citizenship clause of the 14th Amendment, stated in 1866, *"Every Person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.*"
The Fourteenth Amendment states,"(A) Persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States." However a proviso limits foreigners who have babies in America*. It couldn't be clearer, children of foreigners, aliens or diplomats, who are subject to the jurisdiction of their home country, are ineligible for citizenship.* At the time the Fourteenth Amendment was ratified we didn't have immigration laws. One hundred and thirty eight years later we are paying for the misinterpretation of it.

*Congress has the power to step in and correct this wrong*, but don't hold your breath. There have been several bills dealing with this issue and most have died in committee. Except for a few brave individuals like *Tom Tancredo of Colorado and Rep. Goode of Virginia*, there isn't enough chutzpah on Capital Hill to fill a thimble. Where are the Thomas Jefferson's and Ben Franklin's when we need them? An important case, Hamdi vs Rumsfeld was recently heard by the U.S. Supreme Court. Yaser Hamdi was captured during the Afghanistan war fighting for the Taliban. It was later learned that he had been born in Louisiana to Saudi nationals when his father was employed as a chemical engineer on a work visa. The family subsequently moved back to Saudi Arabia where Hamdi was raised. Hamdi sued the U.S. government for holding him in a Navy stockade for two years. He demanded full rights of U.S. citizenship since by accident he happened to be born here. The U.S. government wanted Hamdi charged as a non-combatant and denied due process. Rumsfeld representing the U.S. government didn't raise this issue because he wanted to end birthright citizenship but other groups saw the possibility to finally challenge this fatal flaw in our immigration law that is wrecking havoc on our country. 

One such group, Friends of Immigration Law Enforcement, submitted a 'friend of the court' or Amicus brief. They asked the Supreme Court to address the issue of whether Hamdi should be considered an American citizen at all, since at the time of his birth his parents were foreign nationals with no fealty to this nation. 

The decision came down this week and just like the rest of the elite establishment in this country the U.S. Supreme Court ignored the issue of birthright citizenship except for a brief statement by Justices Scalia and Stevens stating Hamdi was a "*presumed American citizen." *So we live to fight another day. In the meantime the invasion/colonization of our country marches on. *South Korean women *can continue to visit Birthinusa.com - birth in usa Resources and Information.This website is for sale! and *plan their very pregnant United States vacations*! 

In Part II: *The costs of anchor babies *will have you reaching for Pepto Bismol, Excedrin, Advil, Motrin, Paxil and Valium. And, you'll still be sick to your stomach!

The Mexican Invasion and Occupation: Who Pays? ANOTHER FORM OF CORP WELFARE?: CAN'T AFFORD MEDICAL FOR YOUR CHILD? YOU'RE PAYING FOR MEXICO'S ANCHOR BABY PROGRAM


----------



## Madeline

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-flame-zone/128154-the-usmb-one-trick-pony-award.html


----------



## Bullfighter

Coyote said:


> Wow.  These people sure hate little brown children.



Keep em FAT and HAPPY......and KEEP EM BREEDING!

LA RAZA


----------



## Madeline

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-flame-zone/128154-the-usmb-one-trick-pony-award.html


----------



## Luissa

Does being so hateful, ever get old?


----------



## LilOlLady

Coyote said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.  These people sure hate little brown children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not about little brown children, We have our own brown children but why should be take care of Mexico's little brown children? Mexico has a responsiblity and we should hold the to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right.
> 
> Let me amend it.
> 
> You hate little kids
Click to expand...


You don't get it, I 've taken care of  your little throw away kids most of my life and even now in advanced stages of MS I volunteer at Foster GrandParents and Children's Cabinet. And I do the because I care about children. The Nevada State Hospital is full of children your kind have thrown away. SO shut the hell up until you get educated about children.


----------



## LilOlLady

Luissa said:


> Does being so hateful, ever get old?




Luissa, you don't get it either, It is not hateful to love your country. Unlike you who probably run when the going got rough instead of staying and fighting for rights for all your country. Cowards tuck their tails and run, and we have no place for them here. Americans will never run away.


----------



## Coyote

LilOlLady said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is not about little brown children, We have our own brown children but why should be take care of Mexico's little brown children? Mexico has a responsiblity and we should hold the to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right.
> 
> Let me amend it.
> 
> You hate little kids
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't get it, I 've taken care of  your little throw away kids most of my life and even now in advanced stages of MS I volunteer at Foster GrandParents and Children's Cabinet. And I do the because I care about children. The Nevada State Hospital is full of children your kind have thrown away. SO shut the hell up until you get educated about children.
Click to expand...


Yer right, I don't get it.

"Anchor babies" are American citizens.

But, you don't want them treated like other American citizen children

The only conclusion I can come through is you hate, at least some - little kids.



What's "my kind"?


----------



## Madeline

Tell us, LilOldLady, since you are soooo committed to halting illegal immigration.  WTF are you doing about it?  _Besides_   posting on USMB, I mean?

Campaigned for any candidate?

Contributed money to any campaigns?

Written to any legislators?

Harangued any businesses to hire Americans?

You'd be more effective if you weren't such a one-trick pony, Ma'am.  And if you had some creds to back up these rants you insist on writing all day.


----------



## Ravi

LilOlLady said:


> If this does not bother some of you people, you freaking deserve it.


It bothers me a little that you have dual citizenship and get to suck off both teats.


----------



## Madeline

FAIR: Federation for American Immigration Reform

This is the organization I joined.  I don't agree with everything they do, but they're great at keeping me updated on have had some terrific pieces on the issue.  

Sometimes to solve a problem you have to do more than run around screaming like your hair is on fire.


----------



## strollingbones

LilOlLady said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does being so hateful, ever get old?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luissa, you don't get it either, It is not hateful to love your country. Unlike you who probably run when the going got rough instead of staying and fighting for rights for all your country. Cowards tuck their tails and run, and we have no place for them here. Americans will never run away.
Click to expand...


being that crazy should hurt.....we all get it...you hate the constitution and want to change it...we all get it...


----------



## Madeline

> LilOldLady wrote in part:
> 
> I cannot find any infomation on handicap and disable anchor babies.



Well, don't let a little ignorance stop ya there, Ma'am.  Perhaps there is no data collected on such children because they are _Americans._  Just a thought.


----------



## eots

LilOlLady said:


> If this does not bother some of you people, you freaking deserve it.



Indeed...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU4GdHLUHwU]YouTube - &#x202a;9/10/2001: Rumsfeld says $2.3 TRILLION Missing from Pentagon&#x202c;&lrm;[/ame]


----------



## 007

I agree with the OP. The 14th Amendment has been warped and abused. Anchor babies need to be stopped. America is the only country on earth that still has this archaic clause.


----------



## Bullfighter

eots said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> If this does not bother some of you people, you freaking deserve it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed...
> 
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU4GdHLUHwU]YouTube - &#x202a;9/10/2001: Rumsfeld says $2.3 TRILLION Missing from Pentagon&#x202c;&lrm;[/ame]
Click to expand...


No wonder Obama could only send 1,200 troops to guard a 2,000 mile border.


----------



## antipartisan

Coyote said:


> Wow.  These people sure hate little brown children.



LOL want stricter immigration law = durr hurr thas racis

Cool story bro.

I am sick and tired of immigrants taking advantage of American taxpayers and the 14th amendment. I would be equally pissed off if America was geographically located next to India and it was Indians coming here by the hoards.

Also, many of these pro-illegal movements are actually pro-latino movements. If anything is racist, it's them. They don't care about other immigrants, many who are in line trying to come here LEGALLY.


----------



## Bullfighter

antipartisan said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.  These people sure hate little brown children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL want stricter immigration law = durr hurr thas racis
> 
> Cool story bro.
> 
> I am sick and tired of immigrants taking advantage of American taxpayers and the 14th amendment. I would be equally pissed off if America was geographically located next to India and it was Indians coming here by the hoards.
> 
> Also, many of these pro-illegal movements are actually pro-latino movements. If anything is racist, it's them. They don't care about other immigrants, many who are in line trying to come here LEGALLY.
Click to expand...


The United States might try advertising for settlers to colonize Mexico, a failed state.


----------



## LilOlLady

Madeline said:


> LilOldLady wrote in part:
> 
> I cannot find any infomation on handicap and disable anchor babies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, don't let a little ignorance stop ya there, Ma'am.  Perhaps there is no data collected on such children because they are _Americans._  Just a thought.
Click to expand...


Mad. there is a differnce between anchor babies, 500.000 of them, and american citizens. There may not be a number on them, but the cost is there. They are not legal american citizens and never will be. Just because the 14th amendment say they may be do not mean they are.


----------



## Madeline

Ma'am, if the determination that they are american citizens under the constitution ain't valid, what _would_  be?  Yanno, I am concerned about illegal immigration as well, LilOldLady but the day ain't dawned when I am going to assert my citizenship is superior to that of any other American, or I am gonna take my frustrations out on babies and children.

You need to re-think this Ma'am.  Possibly you have some valid points, but to many/most you read like a hysterical bigot.


----------



## LilOlLady

Madeline said:


> Tell us, LilOldLady, since you are soooo committed to halting illegal immigration.  WTF are you doing about it?  _Besides_   posting on USMB, I mean?
> 
> Campaigned for any candidate?
> 
> Contributed money to any campaigns?
> 
> Written to any legislators?
> 
> Harangued any businesses to hire Americans?
> 
> You'd be more effective if you weren't such a one-trick pony, Ma'am.  And if you had some creds to back up these rants you insist on writing all day.



Posting, ranting and talking about it keeps it alive. And I do support those who are doing something abou it. Donations to Arizona Sheriff and to tea party illlegal immigration rallies.
That's WTF I am doing and I am effective. Got people like you worried.


----------



## antipartisan

> because they are Americans.



Yes, because they took advantage of an archaic law that needs to be changed because it doesn't apply to today's situation. 

Let me guess, you're going to say "Bawwww constitution shouldn't be changed", but then when it comes to other things like women's right to vote, "Oh well of course we had to change it". Am I right?


----------



## Madeline

Nope.  If people want to discuss a constitutional amendment, I might be open to it.  So far, I have yet to hear anything proposed other than you should lose your American citizenship if one of your parents was born in Mexico (and mebbe any other Latin American country).  I'll tell ya what I am NOT open to:  any effort to remove the citizenship of children already born here.

Illegal immigration is an enormous problem.  I prolly share many of LilOldLady's concerns...but I'll be damned if I want this country to solve its problems on the backs of babies and children who are every bit as much citizens as I am and my kidlet is.


----------



## Ravi

It's mind boggling to see people hating on American children...no matter how they became American...and these "anchor" babies had no choice.

You're an idiot lil ol hater.


----------



## jillian

Ravi said:


> It's mind boggling to see people hating on American children...no matter how they became American...and these "anchor" babies had no choice.
> 
> You're an idiot lil ol hater.



i think she thinks we should drown them... 

or maybe leave them out in the woods to die.


----------



## Madeline

I don't think she realizes how vile it is to suggest we should start with the disabled kids.  LilOldLady claims she worked with "throw away kids" before she retired; I'm thinking mebbe that's affected her brain.


----------



## Againsheila

strollingbones said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does being so hateful, ever get old?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luissa, you don't get it either, It is not hateful to love your country. Unlike you who probably run when the going got rough instead of staying and fighting for rights for all your country. Cowards tuck their tails and run, and we have no place for them here. Americans will never run away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> being that crazy should hurt.....we all get it...you hate the constitution and want to change it...we all get it...
Click to expand...


I read her post and there was nothing in there about hating the constitution.  Saw a lot about wanting it upheld, but nothing about hating it.


----------



## SW2SILVER

Well, I for one am forming guerrilla resistance against the invaders. Suicide squads, the whole nine yards. What the hell do you think we should do about illegal aliens, Madeline? I can't speak for anyone else, but boy am I tired of that question. (Why are  we posting here instead of&#8230;yadda yadda .) Let&#8217;s  see. I went to the local INS office...twice. Wrote to, E-mailed the local batch of homogenous representatives. Called the po-po&#8217;s (policia) so many freeking times, it must be a record. Code enforcement, health and housing. Officials. City Council. Even an couple of ACORN meetings.  WHAT the hell do you recommend we do, sweetie? So why do you post here, Madeline?  Makes you feel morally superior?


----------



## ABikerSailor

LilOlLady said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does being so hateful, ever get old?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luissa, you don't get it either, It is not hateful to love your country. Unlike you who probably run when the going got rough instead of staying and fighting for rights for all your country. Cowards tuck their tails and run, and we have no place for them here. Americans will never run away.
Click to expand...


Hey Big Ol Bitch, wanna talk patriotism?

I served 20 years for this country, through 4 war zones and about half my time out of the States.

What the fuck did you do?  Go to college, learn how to be an activist bitch (it's reflected in your tea bagger status as well as your support of Arpaio)?

Tell ya what you bloated skank, just slither away quietly, we don't need your kind of stupid hate.  Your only use in life now is a life support system for a dried up pussy.

BTW.........why the fuck is it that tea baggers scream that they support the troops, when in reality, many of THEM were cowards who never served.

Take your false umbrage and shove it up your ass.


----------



## ABikerSailor

LilOlLady said:


> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell us, LilOldLady, since you are soooo committed to halting illegal immigration.  WTF are you doing about it?  _Besides_   posting on USMB, I mean?
> 
> Campaigned for any candidate?
> 
> Contributed money to any campaigns?
> 
> Written to any legislators?
> 
> Harangued any businesses to hire Americans?
> 
> You'd be more effective if you weren't such a one-trick pony, Ma'am.  And if you had some creds to back up these rants you insist on writing all day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Posting, ranting and talking about it keeps it alive. And I do support those who are doing something abou it. Donations to Arizona Sheriff and to tea party illlegal immigration rallies.
> That's WTF I am doing and I am effective. Got people like you worried.
Click to expand...


Yeah.......you're about as effective as the Wasilla Chihuahua turned Momma Gerbil using Facebook as a viable political message platform.


----------



## SW2SILVER

Throw away kids? Illegal aliens treat  themselves and their children like pawns. It's tragic. They should know better, shame on them AND you for buying to that crap. They don't care about their own children , why should the rest of us?


----------



## fyrenza

LilOlLady said:


> ...
> 
> *The Fourteenth Amendment is their ticket. *
> 
> ..[/U][/B] Whole industries have now developed around *abusing the Fourteenth Amendment*. *Pregnant Korean tourists* come to the U.S. on travel visas to have their "anchor" babies. *Coyotes dealing in human traffic are paid $1,500.00 to $25,000.00 per person to shuttle pregnant illegal aliens across our southern border*. Our *politicians and elites wink at this blatant law breaking and do nothing*. The *colonization of our *country continues with the cooperation of our government.



THIS is the fault of the lawyers,

that WE trusted to "interpret" the Founding Father's intentions.

They have FAILED us.


----------



## SW2SILVER

Wow. Thomas Jefferson owned slaves, and he created the Constitution. ALL that wonderful bullshit about "All Men are created equal". Now we just get rationalities for wettbacks. 200 years of freedom for this ? Are you kidding? The right to be excluded by  illegal alien Spanish speakers and treated like a ghost?  Ain&#8217;t gonna happen .


----------



## R.C. Christian

I think it might be time to burn the 14th amendment but who am I kidding? The chances of ridding ourselves of that thing are slim and none so it's hardly worth talking about.


----------



## jillian

fyrenza said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> *The Fourteenth Amendment is their ticket. *
> 
> ..[/U][/B] Whole industries have now developed around *abusing the Fourteenth Amendment*. *Pregnant Korean tourists* come to the U.S. on travel visas to have their "anchor" babies. *Coyotes dealing in human traffic are paid $1,500.00 to $25,000.00 per person to shuttle pregnant illegal aliens across our southern border*. Our *politicians and elites wink at this blatant law breaking and do nothing*. The *colonization of our *country continues with the cooperation of our government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THIS is the fault of the lawyers,
> 
> that WE trusted to "interpret" the Founding Father's intentions.
> 
> They have FAILED us.
Click to expand...


yeah, cause why actually think about what things mean?


----------



## The Infidel

ABikerSailor said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does being so hateful, ever get old?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luissa, you don't get it either, It is not hateful to love your country. Unlike you who probably run when the going got rough instead of staying and fighting for rights for all your country. Cowards tuck their tails and run, and we have no place for them here. Americans will never run away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey Big Ol Bitch, wanna talk patriotism?
> 
> I served 20 years for this country, through 4 war zones and about half my time out of the States.
> 
> What the fuck did you do?  Go to college, learn how to be an activist bitch (it's reflected in your tea bagger status as well as your support of Arpaio)?
> 
> Tell ya what you bloated skank, just slither away quietly, we don't need your kind of stupid hate.  Your only use in life now is a life support system for a dried up pussy.
> 
> BTW.........why the fuck is it that tea baggers scream that they support the troops, when in reality, many of THEM were cowards who never served.
> 
> Take your false umbrage and shove it up your ass.
Click to expand...



Just because you served does'nt make you the end all and be all in knowledge.
I saw nothing about hate in OP. I did however see a concern for the country you say you fought for and would have died for.
If thats the case, then how in the heck can you just sit by and watch the constitution be so twisted and misused?
The 14th ammendment was created in order that the freed slaves would be counted as citizens and be afforded the same rights as you and I.

To see it interpretted the way its being done is just crazy!

We need to look into making it more cut and dried as to the way it is used.

Just because someone is here in OUR country, does'nt mean that they can just have their kid here and all of a sudden they are Americans. 
Guess that means that visitors here on vacation from wherever can just be sure to be here in time to drop their anchor and WA-LA instant citizenship... its ludicrous!


----------



## LilOlLady

Ravi said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> If this does not bother some of you people, you freaking deserve it.
> 
> 
> 
> It bothers me a little that you have dual citizenship and get to suck off both teats.
Click to expand...


That's the way the ball bounces.


----------



## SW2SILVER

All them little wettbacks are sacrosanct. Try living with them,... You will realize just how human they are. Guess what? They don't care about, nor understand the Constitution. So?  I bet they DON"T 
appreciate YOU defending them with it,  either! I bet they care tons about well your children are doing, too. Yeah, right. Wake  the hell up, people. Wake up!


----------



## Dante

Dante said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> In re the 14th Amendment to the Constitution;
> 
> Section one of the 14th Amendment:
> 
> "All persons born or naturalized in the U.S., and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are CITIZENS of the U.S. and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of CITIZENS of the U.S.; nor shall any State deprive ANY PERSON of life, LIBERTY or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any PERSON within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
> 
> What is the original intent of the author(s) of The Constitution?
> 
> Why in the first two phrases use the word "CITIZENS" and in the last two phrases use the words "ANY PERSON"?
> If the intent was to allow a law such as 1070 wouldn't the authors use the word "Citizens" exclusively?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *the amendment has more than one clause. some of it deals with those traitorous bastards of the Confederacy.
> 
> and if the amendment was meant to be solely for slaves, it would say so. it doesn't.*
> 
> Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
> 
> Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
> 
> Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
> 
> ---
> 
> The Civil Rights Act of 1866  had already granted U.S. citizenship to all persons born in the United States; the framers of the Fourteenth Amendment added this principle into the Constitution to prevent the Supreme Court from ruling the Civil Rights Act of 1866 to be unconstitutional for lack of congressional authority to enact such a law or a future Congress from altering it by a mere majority vote. -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> the 14th dealt with the insurrectionist traitors: the Confederates*
Click to expand...


*
the 14th dealt with the insurrectionist traitors: the Confederates*


----------



## Madeline

SW2SILVER said:


> Throw away kids? Illegal aliens treat  themselves and their children like pawns. It's tragic. They should know better, shame on them AND you for buying to that crap. They don't care about their own children , why should the rest of us?



Yes, you're right.  What was I thinking.  It's isn't as American children have value, regardless..._especially_  the disabled ones.


----------



## LilOlLady

Madeline said:


> I don't think she realizes how *vile it is to suggest we should start *with the *disabled kids*.  LilOldLady claims she worked with "throw away kids" before she retired; I'm thinking mebbe that's affected her brain.




When are you going to demand Mexico to take care of them own, instead of pimping them of on us? I am not suggesting you kill disabled kids, but if they are not U.S. citizens, which they are not, then Mexico should take care of them.  And if they don't GOD them Mexico.
What you you mean by "start" with the disable kids? Deport them with their families?
And that is vile?


----------



## Dante

Dante said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> *the amendment has more than one clause. some of it deals with those traitorous bastards of the Confederacy.
> 
> and if the amendment was meant to be solely for slaves, it would say so. it doesn't.*
> 
> Section 3. *No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. *But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
> 
> Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
> 
> Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
> 
> ---
> 
> The Civil Rights Act of 1866  had already granted U.S. citizenship to all persons born in the United States; the framers of the Fourteenth Amendment added this principle into the Constitution to prevent the Supreme Court from ruling the Civil Rights Act of 1866 to be unconstitutional for lack of congressional authority to enact such a law or a future Congress from altering it by a mere majority vote. -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
> 
> 
> 
> *
> the 14th dealt with the insurrectionist traitors: the Confederates*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *
> the 14th dealt with the insurrectionist traitors: the Confederates*
Click to expand...


The Constitution mentions the Confederacy being made up of traitors


----------



## Madeline

Has it occurred to you these children might not be citizens of Mexico?  And how about we start cleaning house and just dumping all disabled children on Mexico...why stop with those whose parents are illegal?

It's all about cost-saving, isn't it?  So who cares?

If this isn't Nazism, I dunno what is.  I am deeply ashamed another chick suggested this.  You make me wanna crawl under a bed and hide, LilOldLady.


----------



## fyrenza

Though I might have mistaken your post,

yet and still,

I KNOW THAT ALL "MEN" (read that HUMANS) WERE created equally.

Each of us has a Gift, whether it be something noticeable,

or something hidden.

We ALL hurt, over the same things.

We ALL need to be wanted and cherished.

Welcome to Real Life.


----------



## LilOlLady

*ANCHOR BABIES NOT U.S. CITIZENS.*

No matter how much you may want them to be, they are not U.S. citizens according to the 14th Amendment. Children born to illegal aliens are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, but to the country their parents are citizens of.

Even *legal immigrants American born children are not U.S. citizens*. Not until born *after* one of the parents become U.S. citizens. Children born* before* their parent were citizens will have to apply for citizen and *not automatic given citizenship when their parent become citizens.*

There is nothing *racist, hateful or bigoted* about this, this is just the law under the 14th Amendment. It is not *racist, bigoted or hateful *to want the 14th Amendment correctly applied. It does matter how it is interpreted and applied. About 500,000 and billions of dollars. A *costly mistake the U.S. taxpayers is paying for*. and this refuse is getting old.

*This issue is not going away, so dont hold you breath*


----------



## SW2SILVER

Time to amend the thing, then, boyo. When people threaten me with guns that are here illegally , I don't think T. Jefferson or the rest figured THAT sh*t into the freedom equation.  ALL of it.


----------



## uscitizen

What about the anchor wenches?


----------



## LilOlLady

Madeline said:


> FAIR: Federation for American Immigration Reform
> 
> This is the organization I joined.  I don't agree with everything they do, but they're great at keeping me updated on have had some terrific pieces on the issue.
> 
> Sometimes to solve a problem you have to do more than run around screaming like your hair is on fire.



Sometimes running around like you hair is on fire is the only way the problem can be solved. Passiveness will not work in this issue. Passiveness got us 20 million. Only a bug in you butt constantly. You see, Mad, I ain't going away any way soon. I got a job to do and I do it well. I don't tuck tail, run and hide. Survival of my country is at stake.

FAIR is one of the many organization I get lots of my info from also.


----------



## Wry Catcher

LilOlLady said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does being so hateful, ever get old?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luissa, you don't get it either, It is not hateful to love your country. Unlike you who probably run when the going got rough instead of staying and fighting for rights for all your country. Cowards tuck their tails and run, and we have no place for them here. Americans will never run away.
Click to expand...


Do you define GWB and Dick Cheney as Americans?  Their behavior during the Vietnam conflict sure looks cowardly.  I too had better things to do, but I enlisted in the Navy and never once went to Alabama to help one of my daddy's friends get elected.


----------



## SW2SILVER

No. I am no right. I have an opinion. That is it. I do live with Mexicans, and their kids live right here with me. I don't need anyone to pretend I am some how acceptable. OK, what about YOU, Madeline?    
you might have an interesting  story to tell us. Tell us.


----------



## Tank




----------



## R.C. Christian

LilOlLady said:


> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOldLady wrote in part:
> 
> I cannot find any infomation on handicap and disable anchor babies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, don't let a little ignorance stop ya there, Ma'am.  Perhaps there is no data collected on such children because they are _Americans._  Just a thought.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mad. there is a differnce between anchor babies, 500.000 of them, and american citizens. There may not be a number on them, but the cost is there. They are not legal american citizens and never will be. Just because the 14th amendment say they may be do not mean they are.
Click to expand...


Well, yes it sort of does unfortunately but you can't change it. The future world is a stateless entity where old world ideas of sovereignty and nationality have no value or meaning. You're fighting a losing battle.


----------



## Madeline

SW2SILVER said:


> No. I am no right. I have an opinion. That is it. I do live with Mexicans, and their kids live right here with me. I don't need anyone to pretend I am some how acceptable. OK, what about YOU, Madeline?
> you might have an interesting  story to tell us. Tell us.



I have never lived out West.  All the Latinos I know or knew have been legal immigrants from Cuba or Americans from Puerto Rica.  Nonetheless, I am very concerned about the presence of illegals in this country.  I favor deportation, securing the borders, and I oppose any sweeping amnesty.  Most of all, I favor heavy fines and lengthy prison sentences for Americans who employ illegals.

I also favor aid to Mexico, so that it can be a desirable place for its own citizens to live, and compassion for the American children of Mexican parents.


----------



## Tank

Madeline said:


> All the Latinos I know or knew have been legal immigrants from Cuba or Americans from Puerto Rica.


How did you know?


----------



## Madeline

LilOlLady said:


> *ANCHOR BABIES NOT U.S. CITIZENS.*
> 
> No matter how much you may want them to be, they are not U.S. citizens according to the 14th Amendment. Children born to illegal aliens are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, but to the country their parents are citizens of.
> 
> Even *legal immigrants American born children are not U.S. citizens*. Not until born *after* one of the parents become U.S. citizens. Children born* before* their parent were citizens will have to apply for citizen and *not automatic given citizenship when their parent become citizens.*
> 
> There is nothing *racist, hateful or bigoted* about this, this is just the law under the 14th Amendment. It is not *racist, bigoted or hateful *to want the 14th Amendment correctly applied. It does matter how it is interpreted and applied. About 500,000 and billions of dollars. A *costly mistake the U.S. taxpayers is paying for*. and this refuse is getting old.
> 
> *This issue is not going away, so dont hold you breath*



You are wrong on the law, LilOldLady.


----------



## Father Time

Pale Rider said:


> I agree with the OP. The 14th Amendment has been warped and abused. Anchor babies need to be stopped. America is the only country on earth that still has this archaic clause.



We're also one of the few countries without huge gun control. Somehow I doubt you mind.

(Note: I do not support gun bans).


----------



## Father Time

LilOlLady said:


> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> 
> FAIR: Federation for American Immigration Reform
> 
> This is the organization I joined.  I don't agree with everything they do, but they're great at keeping me updated on have had some terrific pieces on the issue.
> 
> Sometimes to solve a problem you have to do more than run around screaming like your hair is on fire.
> 
> 
> 
> Survival of my country is at stake.
Click to expand...


You have to be the biggest drama queen on this boards. The country has survived massive waves of immigrants just fine.


----------



## Father Time

So you don't bitch about taxpayers supporting orphanages until they support a citizen whose parents were illegal immigrants. Then all of a sudden you hate them, especially if it's disabled orphans.

And you wonder why people call you hateful.

Unfreakingbelievable.


----------



## Father Time

antipartisan said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.  These people sure hate little brown children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL want stricter immigration law = durr hurr thas racis
> 
> Cool story bro.
> 
> I am sick and tired of immigrants taking advantage of American taxpayers and the 14th amendment. I would be equally pissed off if America was geographically located next to India and it was Indians coming here by the hoards.
> 
> Also, many of these pro-illegal movements are actually pro-latino movements. If anything is racist, it's them. They don't care about other immigrants, many who are in line trying to come here LEGALLY.
Click to expand...


"Stop playing the race cards you racists!"

Holy hypocrisy batman!


----------



## Father Time

LilOlLady said:


> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOldLady wrote in part:
> 
> I cannot find any infomation on handicap and disable anchor babies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, don't let a little ignorance stop ya there, Ma'am.  Perhaps there is no data collected on such children because they are _Americans._  Just a thought.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mad. there is a differnce between anchor babies, 500.000 of them, and american citizens. There may not be a number on them, but the cost is there. They are not legal american citizens and never will be. Just because the 14th amendment say they may be do not mean they are.
Click to expand...


If the Constitution says they are citizens then they are citizens. It's pretty fucking simple.


----------



## Father Time

Tank said:


>



So Tank thinks Latinos are a threat to this country. Why am I not surprised?

Betcha anything he'll try to pretend that it's not racist.


----------



## R.C. Christian

Father Time said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So Tank thinks Latinos are a threat to this country. Why am I not surprised?
> 
> Betcha anything he'll try to pretend that it's not racist.
Click to expand...


Well, they are a threat in a political sense. And that's really what this is all about.


----------



## topspin

Wow lose a few jobs and losers out themselves as racist. The kids are Americans.


----------



## Bullfighter

Coyote said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right.
> 
> Let me amend it.
> 
> You hate little kids
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't get it, I 've taken care of  your little throw away kids most of my life and even now in advanced stages of MS I volunteer at Foster GrandParents and Children's Cabinet. And I do the because I care about children. The Nevada State Hospital is full of children your kind have thrown away. SO shut the hell up until you get educated about children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yer right, I don't get it.
> 
> "Anchor babies" are American citizens.
> 
> But, you don't want them treated like other American citizen children
> 
> The only conclusion I can come through is you hate, at least some - little kids.
> 
> 
> 
> What's "my kind"?
Click to expand...



Anchors belong in the ocean!


----------



## LilOlLady

*SEND THE BILL TO CALDERONE.
File civil suits against the Mexican government.*

Instead of giving *million to México to fight drug cartel*s, that is funding a *corrupt government, military and police force*, use it to put more *border agents *on the border, more *ICE agents *across the country to raid businesses that hire illegal work force.
Calderone can use the $*35 billion [/
U]*illegal aliens send back to Mexicos economy each year to pay us for *education, healthcare,  welfare benefits, incarcerations *of illegal aliens and their anchor babies that is billed to the *U.S. taxpayers.*

Then the *family of the rancher that was killed on the border *should file a *civil suit* against the government of Mexico and all the *others who are victims of illegal aliens crime *should also.

Then sit back and see how fast *Calderone will close the borders *and keep his people home.
This bucket of **** we are carrying around is overflowing and have no where to go. The American people have had enough of this BOS. *Hold Mexico reasponsible for it's people*.


----------



## Truthmatters

Legalize pot and watch the power of these cartels die.


----------



## topspin

racist prohibitionist will shoot off thier own foot rather than give in to reason and justice.


----------



## LilOlLady

Truthmatters said:


> Legalize pot and watch the power of these cartels die.



Pot is not the only drug coming across that border. Legalize pot and watch auto accidents go up. I don't want to share the roads with a bunch of high pot smokers.


----------



## topspin

the number of people smoking won't go up because it's legal, in fact the number driving likely will go down as it will be harder for kids to get it. Not that you'd understand granny.


----------



## Mr Natural

LilOlLady said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> Legalize pot and watch the power of these cartels die.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pot is not the only drug coming across that border. Legalize pot and watch auto accidents go up. *I don't want to share the roads with a bunch of high pot smokers*.
Click to expand...



Chances are you already do.


----------



## Truthmatters

Ask any officer and they will tell you they would rather deal with a stoned driver than a drunk driver..


----------



## topspin

Any baby born here has always been a citizen since the 14th, regardless of the racist objections.


----------



## Truthmatters

they sure do hate the constitution


----------



## LilOlLady

topspin said:


> the number of people smoking won't go up because it's legal, in fact the number driving likely will go down as it will be *harder for kids to get *it. Not that you'd understand granny.



Then there will be those illegallly pushing drugs to chldren. Kids are not the ones driving while under the influence. Legalize the drug will cause people to more likely to drive under the influence. Kid will find a way just like they get cigarettes and booze. They will get it from home like the get pills also.
Legalizing it will not stop it. Since booze have be legal, more are drinking because it is easy to get. Same will be with drugs.
cocaine, meth, heroin, pills and party drugs are still out there and pusher will still push and make money.
*I think I understand. Sonny boy*


----------



## Bullfighter

LilOlLady said:


> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> the number of people smoking won't go up because it's legal, in fact the number driving likely will go down as it will be harder for kids to get it. Not that you'd understand granny.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then there will be those illegallly pushing drugs to chldren. Kids are not the ones driving while under the influence. Legalize the drug will cause people to more likely to drive under the influence. Kid will find a way just like they get cigarettes and booze. They will get it from home like the get pills also.
> Legalizing it will not stop it. Since booze have be legal, more are drinking because it is easy to get. Same will be with drugs.
> cocaine, meth, heroin, pills and party drugs are still our there and pusher will still push and make money.
> I think I understand. Sonny boy
Click to expand...


"What a wonderful world!" 
Louie Armstrong​


----------



## LilOlLady

Mr Clean said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> Legalize pot and watch the power of these cartels die.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pot is not the only drug coming across that border. Legalize pot and watch auto accidents go up. *I don't want to share the roads with a bunch of high pot smokers*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Chances are you already do.
Click to expand...


I probably do and don't want *more* of them.


----------



## LilOlLady

Madeline said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *ANCHOR BABIES NOT U.S. CITIZENS.*
> 
> No matter how much you may want them to be, they are not U.S. citizens according to the 14th Amendment. Children born to illegal aliens are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, but to the country their parents are citizens of.
> 
> Even *legal immigrants American born children are not U.S. citizens*. Not until born *after* one of the parents become U.S. citizens. Children born* before* their parent were citizens will have to apply for citizen and *not automatic given citizenship when their parent become citizens.*
> 
> There is nothing *racist, hateful or bigoted* about this, this is just the law under the 14th Amendment. It is not *racist, bigoted or hateful *to want the 14th Amendment correctly applied. It does matter how it is interpreted and applied. About 500,000 and billions of dollars. A *costly mistake the U.S. taxpayers is paying for*. and this refuse is getting old.
> 
> *This issue is not going away, so dont hold you breath*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are wrong on the law, LilOldLady.
Click to expand...



Then enlighten me Mad.


----------



## LilOlLady

The University of Uncertainty
*Va. Children of Illegal Immigrants Lack In-State Status*

High school senior Nelson Lopez says he can't afford out-of-state rates, so he applied only to state schools in Virginia. (Photo: Richard Lipski/Post) 
Buy Photo 
Nelson Lopez of Alexandria was born in this country, but his parents are illegal immigrants, so the University of Virginia informed him that he is not eligible for in-state tuition. (By Richard A. Lipski -- The Washington Post) 
Buy Photo 
By Susan KinzieWashington Post Staff Writer 
Friday, March 14, 2008 
When Nelson Lopez applied to Virginia colleges this year, it never occurred to him that he might not be considered a state resident. After all, he has lived in the state since he was a baby, holds a voter registration card and will graduate this spring from an Alexandria high school. 
Then last month, he got an e-mail from the University of Virginia: If he wanted to be considered an in-state student, he had to prove that his parents are in this country legally. 
Lopez, 18, was born here -- he's a U.S. citizen. But his parents are illegal immigrants. 
In the years since a huge wave of immigrants began pouring into the country, their U.S.-born children are graduating from high school and finding that citizenship may not be enough. 
CONTINUED 1 2 Next > 
The University of Uncertainty - washingtonpost.com


----------



## LilOlLady

*SEND YOUR COMMENTS TO MEXICO.*


Mexican Government Agencies & Political Directory - MEXonline.com

*They would like to hear from you.*


----------



## topspin

I see a law suite coming on this one kid wins.


----------



## topspin

adults are more likely smoking in the home just like drinking. Do some drive? Yes


----------



## LilOlLady

topspin said:


> i see a law suite coming on this one kid wins.



maybe and maybe not. Depends on the law


----------



## topspin

He's a us citizen so he can't be here illegally. Now I can see how they might not give him financial aid since that's parent releated.


----------



## LilOlLady

14th Amendment: Is birthright citizenship really in the Constitution?

Congress could deny birthright citizenship to the children of illegal immigrants, say some experts. But others believe that changing citizenship policy requires changing the 14th Amendment.

The House Judiciary Committee Ranking Republican Rep. Lamar Smith, R-Tex., speaks during a news conference on Capitol Hill, in Washington on Aug. 10. &#8220;We do not need to amend the Constitution to end birthright citizenship,&#8221; he said Tuesday. 
Drew Angerer/AP

Section 1 of the 14th Amendment begins this way: &#8220;All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.&#8221;
The key phrase here is &#8220;subject to the jurisdiction thereof,&#8221; say some experts. 
Illegal immigrants are not subject to US jurisdiction, in the sense that they cannot be drafted into the US military or tried for treason against the US, said John Eastman, a professor at the Chapman University School of Law, in a media conference call Monday. Their children would share that status, via citizenship in their parents&#8217; nation or nations of birth &#8211; and so would not be eligible for a US passport, even if born on US soil, according to Dr. Eastman.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politi...hright-citizenship-really-in-the-Constitution


----------



## LilOlLady

*WHAT THE 14TH  DOES NOT SAY.*



The 14th Amendment does not say; anyone who is born in this country is (automatically) an American citizen If that was the case, children born in this country to foreigners, aliens, ambassadors, or foreign ministers would automatically be American citizens and they are not.

"This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, *aliens,* who belong to the family of ambassadors, or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons."



What the 14th Amendment to the constitution  *DO *say is:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and *subject to the jurisdiction thereof*, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.



If *subject to the jurisdiction* if left out of the clause it changes the whole meaning.

Who are the subjects of a foreign power? Thomas Jefferson said *Aliens are the subjects of a foreign power.* Thus, the statute can be read as All persons born in the United States who are not aliens, excluding Indians not taxed, are declared to be citizens of the United States

http://federalistblog.us/2007/09/revisiting_s... 
The 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution - Fourteenth Amendment - anchor babies and birthright citizenship - interpretations and misinterpretations - US Constitution


Another thing is anchor babies are always referred to as punishing infants Surprise, surprise. Those infants are members of gangs dealing drugs, drive by shootings, burglarizing home and cars and terrorizing neighbor hoods, and our prisons are filled with them. And since they are illegally considered American citizens they cannot be deported. And almost every illegal alien family have at least one anchor baby who is a criminal.

*YOU CANNOT TAKE SOMETHING AWAY FROM SOMEONE THAT THEY NEVER HAD. US CITIZENSHIP.*


----------



## Father Time

LilOlLady said:


> *SEND YOUR COMMENTS TO MEXICO.*
> 
> 
> Mexican Government Agencies & Political Directory - MEXonline.com
> 
> *They would like to hear from you.*



Why would Mexico give a damn about what some random American citizens think?


----------



## Bullfighter

Father Time said:


> [
> Why would Mexico give a damn about what some random American citizens think?



Why was Seinfeld's Kramer made to apologize to the monkey who spit on him?


----------



## LilOlLady

Can you imagine that one day one of those anchor babies who are protesting for illegal aliens and amnesty, etc may well be President and sympathetic to Mexico,etc. And there is a good change they would be elected because or other anchor babies and those illegal given amnesty.

I know some of you say we are all anchor babies but children of illegal aliens who stole into this country and used false or stolen documents in order to work, etc, A total nightmare. We are not all anchor babies.

Don't people know that immigranst of old came through Ellis Island and had to register and some were not allowed in? Before that there were no immigration laws.. And the difference now it the amount of illegal immigrants.


----------



## Mr. H.

I'd vote for this anchor baby:


----------



## Tom Clancy

Who cares? 

The thing that matters is that he was born here. 

And honestly, I'm pretty sure there have already been "Anchor Baby" Presidents.. How so? Well, most ancestors were Immigrants who weren't Citizens. 

So, your point?


----------



## driveby

LilOlLady said:


> Can you imagine that one day one of those anchor babies who are protesting for illegal aliens and amnesty, etc may well be President and sympathetic to Mexico,etc. And there is a good change they would be elected because or other anchor babies and those illegal given amnesty.
> 
> I know some of you say we are all anchor babies but children of illegal aliens who stole into this country and used false or stolen documents in order to work, etc, A total nightmare. We are not all anchor babies.
> 
> Don't people know that immigranst of old came through Ellis Island and had to register and some were not allowed in? Before that there were no immigration laws.. And the difference now it the amount of illegal immigrants.



Some say our current one isn't even an anchor baby.......


----------



## ABikerSailor

Bullfighter said:


> Father Time said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> Why would Mexico give a damn about what some random American citizens think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why was Seinfeld's Kramer made to apologize to the monkey who spit on him?
Click to expand...


Wanna provide a link to your assertions there you racist cocksmoking asshole?

Or, are you a bullshitter rather than a bullfighter?  I'm guessing the former.


----------



## LilOlLady

Tom Clancy said:


> Who cares?
> 
> The thing that matters is that he was *born here. *
> 
> And honestly, I'm pretty sure there have already been "Anchor Baby" Presidents.. How so? Well, most ancestors were Immigrants who weren't Citizens.
> 
> So, your point?





There is more to it than born here. There have not been an anchor baby president. Immigraint that entered before the 14th amendment were legal because they were under another immigraiton law and it only applied to Europeans. What you are trying to spin is no exucse for anchor babies to be citizen by there mother entering this country illegallly and giving birth. Citizenship is more than being born here. There were not 500,000 anchor babies in this country them and the 14th amendment would not apply to them. 14th amendment only applied to children of slaves and they did not enter this country illegally.
It is necessary now for the 14th amendment to be clarified. 500,000 reasons and growing and bankrupting this country. Calif has already been destroyed by illegal aliens and their anchor babies adn will never recover and may as well be given back to Mexico and a wall builty around it.
The problem with an anchor baby for president is it ties with Mexico through their parents. The danger is Mexico merging with U.S. I don't even want to think about it.


----------



## LilOlLady

I have come to that decision by listening to Richardson, Guterriez, and other Hispanic in office that all lean toward amnesty because of their ties with Mexico. None of them want enforcement or border closed.
If the 14th amendment is not clarified and correctly interpreted, we is a bucket of S***>


----------



## ABikerSailor

LilOlLady said:


> I have come to that decision by listening to Richardson, Guterriez, and other Hispanic in office that all lean toward amnesty because of their ties with Mexico. None of them want enforcement or border closed.
> If the 14th amendment is not clarified and correctly interpreted, we is a bucket of S***>



What about when Bush Jr. allowed Vincente Fox to campaign up in Utah?


----------



## SFC Ollie

ABikerSailor said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have come to that decision by listening to Richardson, Guterriez, and other Hispanic in office that all lean toward amnesty because of their ties with Mexico. None of them want enforcement or border closed.
> If the 14th amendment is not clarified and correctly interpreted, we is a bucket of S***>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about when Bush Jr. allowed Vincente Fox to campaign up in Utah?
Click to expand...


Bush was as wrong on immigration as the rest of Washington.


----------



## Gadawg73

All the immigration problems we have can be traced back to an unelightened immigration policy on the part of The American Indian.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Gadawg73 said:


> All the immigration problems we have can be traced back to an unelightened immigration policy on the part of The American Indian.



Which is the main reason that the 14th Amendment was created.


----------



## LilOlLady

MEXICAN CULTURE AND BILINGUAL CLASSES.

No wonder our schools are failing. Hispanic activist what us to teach their anchor babies in English and Spanish and teach them Mexican culture to prevent drop out rate. Also the children they bring with them. Also they want teacher to go back to school to learn how to teach  Mexican children. When will teachers have time to teach American students?
A better and less expensive idea would be to deport them and get back to teaching the American way. 

*"In keeping with the American way,"* she wrote, "they [Hispanic parents] could sue if they get enough parents together; they could force the school to give their children the instruction they need, in the language they need [Spanish]. The other alternative will be one that we have already seen in Nevada schools * immigrant students will simply drop out *in frightening numbers." However, statistics from schools around the countryincluding Clark and Washoe countiesshow that Hispanic children are dropping out at an alarming rate even with bilingual education. Like many on the left who cling to the failed social and educational programs of the Great Society, *Sepulveda* says she believes the answer to the lack of results from bilingual education is to simply "fix it." 
Nevada Journal: Cover Story
Professor Emma Sepuvelda
Oct 30, 2004 ... Emma Sepulveda, The University of Nevada, Reno ... EMMA SEPULVEDA, Ph.D. Foundation Professor of Foreign Languages & Literatures ...
wolfweb.unr.edu/homepage/emmas/ - Cached - Similar


Mariposa Academy
Apr 22, 2005 ... Mariposa Academy is a Spanish language school in the Oakland / Berkeley / Piedmont / Montclair area. We offer both small group Spanish ...
Mariposa Academy - Cached - Similar

*Guess who pays for it?*

PDF] 
EDO 00-1/Chavkin-Gonzalez
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
by R Education - Related articles
Learn about *Mexican culture,* and teach acceptance. If teachers share knowledge of the Mexican culture, all children in the class 
[PPT] 

Mexican Culture
File Format: Microsoft Powerpoint - View as HTML
Immigrant children might suffer from *culture shock when arriving to the United States *... The following contributed to the *effectiveness of teaching Mexican *...
faculty.tnstate.edu/bchristian1/mexicanculturektherber.ppt - Similar


----------



## Big Black Dog

I get more than enough Mexican culture at Taco Bell.


----------



## LilOlLady

driveby said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you imagine that one day one of those anchor babies who are protesting for illegal aliens and amnesty, etc may well be President and sympathetic to Mexico,etc. And there is a good change they would be elected because or other anchor babies and those illegal given amnesty.
> 
> I know some of you say we are all anchor babies but children of illegal aliens who stole into this country and used false or stolen documents in order to work, etc, A total nightmare. We are not all anchor babies.
> 
> Don't people know that immigranst of old came through Ellis Island and had to register and some were not allowed in? Before that there were no immigration laws.. And the difference now it the amount of illegal immigrants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some say our current one isn't even an anchor baby.......
Click to expand...


Do you belive everything you hear? Some do who do not want to know the facts.


----------



## LilOlLady

Count Dracula said:


> I get more than enough Mexican culture at Taco Bell.



The taco bells I go to is own by and operated by a white family and so are the cooks. Good food.


----------



## Mad Scientist

I wouldn't mind Mexico becoming the dominant culture if Mexico wasn't such a shithole.


----------



## Bullfighter

Mad Scientist said:


> I wouldn't mind Mexico becoming the dominant culture if Mexico wasn't such a shithole.





[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPU-BYB2fMI]YouTube - Griffin funerale messicano mexican funeral[/ame]


----------



## LilOlLady

ACCESSORIE TO THE CRIMES.

The U.S. government is as guilty as the human smugglers that kill illegal aliens for ransom and for all the other illegal aliens and children that lose their lives trying to enter this country to get to jobs, have an anchor baby and collect all the other freebies.  Children trying to get to their families in the U.S. The U.S. government have lots of blood on their hand. But that is nothing new.
Our government could easily stop all these deaths by going after businesses that hire illegal aliens and repealing Automatic Birthright Citizenship for U.S. born children of illegal aliens. If the cannot work and have and anchor baby they will go home and they will not attempt to come.
Another path to citizenship(amnesty) is only one more incentive and more lives lost.

Armed Gang Kidnapped Immigrants Found Dead Near Texas-Mexico Border
Aug 26, 2010 ... An armed gang kidnapped the 72 people who were found dead at a ranch near the Texas-Mexico border, according to a survivor's account. ...
Armed Gang Kidnapped Immigrants Found Dead Near Texas-Mexico Border

Make it easier for them to enter. How much easier can it get. 30 million.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Hey Big Ol' Bitch, why are you so racist and bigoted?

Were you a Mayflower whore?


----------



## IndependentBear

You come to America, you learn English.  Period.  If I were to move to France for any reason, I'd be an idiot not to learn some French.


----------



## SFC Ollie

Is this true? Are the Feds moving to dismiss some deportation cases. Is this a form of backdoor amnesty, or are they simply overwhelmed. And if they are that overwhelmed, doesn't that tell us there are too many illegals and we need to do something? Something like enforce the law and get the border sealed.


----------



## IndependentBear

I get so sick of hearing "We're a nation of immigrants."  "A nation of descendants of immigrants" is more like it.  Obviously we have our share of immigrants, both legal and illegal, but my sister and I, my parents, and all of my grandparents were all born in the USA (and all in Michigan).  Some of my great-grandparents came from Europe, most of them around 1900 or shortly thereafter.


----------



## Nate

Not suprised... Especially when you have a top Homeland security official with this mentality;


> "I don't think the Arizona law,* or laws like it*, are the solution," Morton
> 
> 
> FOXNews.com - Top Official Says Feds May Not Process Illegals Referred From Arizona



Arizona's law mirrors the Federal anti-illegal immigration law... We are so screwed! Guess I shouldn't have slept through Spanish in Highschool


----------



## jillian

SFC Ollie said:


> Is this true? Are the Feds moving to dismiss some deportation cases. Is this a form of backdoor amnesty, or are they simply overwhelmed. And if they are that overwhelmed, doesn't that tell us there are too many illegals and we need to do something? Something like enforce the law and get the border sealed.



If what you're talking about is them not accepting 'referrals' from Arizona... 

a) they are under no obligation to accept cases from a state;
b) the pending litigation, in which their argument is that if they accepted cases from all 50 states, they would be overwhelmed, makes it more appropriate for them NOT to pursue AZ's cases.

Everyone's let the border go for 30 years for an awful lot of reasons. That doesn't mean the Feds have to take orders from any state.


----------



## Nate

jillian said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is this true? Are the Feds moving to dismiss some deportation cases. Is this a form of backdoor amnesty, or are they simply overwhelmed. And if they are that overwhelmed, doesn't that tell us there are too many illegals and we need to do something? Something like enforce the law and get the border sealed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If what you're talking about is them not accepting 'referrals' from Arizona...
> 
> *a) they are under no obligation to accept cases from a state;
> b) the pending litigation, in which their argument is that if they accepted cases from all 50 states, they would be overwhelmed, makes it more appropriate for them NOT to pursue AZ's cases.*
> 
> Everyone's let the border go for 30 years for an awful lot of reasons. That doesn't mean the Feds have to take orders from any state.
Click to expand...


Like I said we(the common man/woman) are screwed...


----------



## SFC Ollie

IndependentBear said:


> I get so sick of hearing "We're a nation of immigrants."  "A nation of descendants of immigrants" is more like it.  Obviously we have our share of immigrants, both legal and illegal, but my sister and I, my parents, and all of my grandparents were all born in the USA (and all in Michigan).  Some of my great-grandparents came from Europe, most of them around 1900 or shortly thereafter.



And they probably went through Ellis island as they should have.


----------



## SFC Ollie

jillian said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is this true? Are the Feds moving to dismiss some deportation cases. Is this a form of backdoor amnesty, or are they simply overwhelmed. And if they are that overwhelmed, doesn't that tell us there are too many illegals and we need to do something? Something like enforce the law and get the border sealed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If what you're talking about is them not accepting 'referrals' from Arizona...
> 
> a) they are under no obligation to accept cases from a state;
> b) the pending litigation, in which their argument is that if they accepted cases from all 50 states, they would be overwhelmed, makes it more appropriate for them NOT to pursue AZ's cases.
> 
> Everyone's let the border go for 30 years for an awful lot of reasons. That doesn't mean the Feds have to take orders from any state.
Click to expand...


Not referring to any state actually. But if the law says something and the courts cannot keep up, isn't it time to take measures to fix something. And I do not mean giving them a reward for breaking the law.

And how is the Federal government not under obligation to enforce the law?


----------



## jillian

SFC Ollie said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is this true? Are the Feds moving to dismiss some deportation cases. Is this a form of backdoor amnesty, or are they simply overwhelmed. And if they are that overwhelmed, doesn't that tell us there are too many illegals and we need to do something? Something like enforce the law and get the border sealed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If what you're talking about is them not accepting 'referrals' from Arizona...
> 
> a) they are under no obligation to accept cases from a state;
> b) the pending litigation, in which their argument is that if they accepted cases from all 50 states, they would be overwhelmed, makes it more appropriate for them NOT to pursue AZ's cases.
> 
> Everyone's let the border go for 30 years for an awful lot of reasons. That doesn't mean the Feds have to take orders from any state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not referring to any state actually. But if the law says something and the courts cannot keep up, isn't it time to take measures to fix something. And I do not mean giving them a reward for breaking the law.
> 
> And how is the Federal government not under obligation to enforce the law?
Click to expand...


prosecutorial discretion exists for a reason. prosecutors make decisions every day about whom they should or should not prosecute, for a lot of reasons, including whether or not a particular type of case overburdens the system.

sometimes people have to be creative. that's why john mccain tried to put through a bi-partisan compromise bill on the subject. of course, the partisans weren't happy with it. but the reality is, there are a lot of considerations.

.... one of which happens to be that the feds don't have to jump when arizona wants them to.


----------



## Nate

jillian said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> If what you're talking about is them not accepting 'referrals' from Arizona...
> 
> a) they are under no obligation to accept cases from a state;
> b) the pending litigation, in which their argument is that if they accepted cases from all 50 states, they would be overwhelmed, makes it more appropriate for them NOT to pursue AZ's cases.
> 
> Everyone's let the border go for 30 years for an awful lot of reasons. That doesn't mean the Feds have to take orders from any state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not referring to any state actually. But if the law says something and the courts cannot keep up, isn't it time to take measures to fix something. And I do not mean giving them a reward for breaking the law.
> 
> And how is the Federal government not under obligation to enforce the law?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> prosecutorial discretion exists for a reason. prosecutors make decisions every day about whom they should or should not prosecute, for a lot of reasons, including whether or not a particular type of case overburdens the system.
> 
> sometimes people have to be creative. that's why john mccain tried to put through a bi-partisan compromise bill on the subject. of course, the partisans weren't happy with it. but the reality is, there are a lot of considerations.
> 
> .... one of which happens to be that the feds don't have to jump when arizona wants them to.
Click to expand...


When a boat has a hole in it do you keep bailing the water out or do you try to plug up the hole? Arizona is the hole. Why does DHS want to play politics instead of doing it's job...


----------



## LilOlLady

IndependentBear said:


> You come to America, you learn English.  Period.  If I were to move to France for any reason, I'd be an idiot not to learn some French.



And the French government would not pay for you to learn French, English and the English culture either.
Why do they expect us to pay to teach their Mexican children the Mexican culture?


----------



## LilOlLady

Bullfighter said:


> Father Time said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> Why would Mexico give a damn about what some random American citizens think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why was Seinfeld's Kramer made to apologize to the monkey who spit on him?
Click to expand...


No one spit on Kramer.


----------



## LilOlLady

ABikerSailor said:


> Hey Big Ol' Bitch, why are you so racist and bigoted?
> 
> Were you a Mayflower whore?



Why are you so fuquing angry? I am a Native American and want to see our immigration laws enforced and the violence on the border stopped and the killing of people who want to enter this country to work and suck the life out of ameicans. and see people losing their lives in the desert See controlled migration. Border secured, etc  If that make me a *fat old racist bigoted. So be it.*


----------



## IndependentBear

You're absolutely right.  I would have to endure the expense of time, money and energy involved.  It all comes down to one thing:  personal responsibility.


----------



## Angelhair

_Mexicans are not too big on personal responsibility.  For that matter, neither of those from Central/SoAmerica._


----------



## LilOlLady

Nate said:


> Not suprised... Especially when you have a top Homeland security official with this mentality;
> 
> 
> 
> "I don't think the Arizona law,* or laws like it*, are the solution," Morton
> 
> 
> FOXNews.com - Top Official Says Feds May Not Process Illegals Referred From Arizona
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arizona's law mirrors the Federal anti-illegal immigration law... We are so screwed! Guess I shouldn't have slept through Spanish in Highschool
Click to expand...


Arizona type laws are the ONLY solution. Federal Immigration and Nationality Law is not the solution because it has never been tried of lately. Did work and will work again if enforced. Arizona type law worked. Illegal aliens were leaving. Isn't that working? IF every state followed Arizona, the Feds would have not choice but to deport. DOJ could not afford to sue them all or have the time and maybe Obama would get the message. WE are  not sending a clear and convincing message. We need to bombard Obama with the message that we have had enough and no amnesty or path to citizenship ever and legal immigraiton only.


----------



## LilOlLady

Count Dracula said:


> I get more than enough Mexican culture at Taco Bell.



Mexican activist want us to pay teacher to teach Mexican culture to anchor babies so they will do better in school.
What better teacher than hands on. Deport them to Mexico with their parents.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Troops to start deploying on Arizona border on Monday*

Soldiers will have guns for self-defense, but they will not have the authority to arrest anyone.

He says the troops will have guns for *self-defense, *but they will not have the authority to arrest anyone themselves; if they spot illegal immigrants, they must report them to the Border Patrol. 

Read more: Troops to deploy to Arizona border on Monday


*Self defense is good enough for me. Because they will be fired upon and they can fire back.*


----------



## iamwhatiseem

LilOlLady said:


> Count Dracula said:
> 
> 
> 
> I get more than enough Mexican culture at Taco Bell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The taco bells I go to is own by and operated by a white family and so are the cooks. Good food.
Click to expand...


Taco Bell...good food?
Holy...


----------



## SFC Ollie

LilOlLady said:


> *Troops to start deploying on Arizona border on Monday*
> 
> Soldiers will have guns for self-defense, but they will not have the authority to arrest anyone.
> 
> He says the troops will have guns for *self-defense, *but they will not have the authority to arrest anyone themselves; if they spot illegal immigrants, they must report them to the Border Patrol.
> 
> Read more: Troops to deploy to Arizona border on Monday
> 
> 
> *Self defense is good enough for me. Because they will be fired upon and they can fire back.*



Kind of too late to fire back once you have a bullet embedded in your chest.


----------



## LilOlLady

SFC Ollie said:


> Is this true? Are the Feds moving to dismiss some deportation cases. Is this a form of backdoor amnesty, or are they simply overwhelmed. And if they are that overwhelmed, doesn't that tell us there are too many illegals and we need to do something? Something like enforce the law and get the border sealed.



6,000 ICE agents is like finding a nat in the corn patch when trying to deal with 20 million illegal aliens.  Criminal illegal aliens were once hard working immigrants who only want to take care of their families. BS. Arrest them and deport them BEFORE they commit crimes and save lives. How many are criminals who have not been cought?


----------



## LilOlLady

.
*Feds arrest 370 immigrants in raids in 10 states*Read more: Feds arrest 370 immigrants in raids in 10 states

CHICAGO - Federal officials in Chicago say they've arrested 370 immigrants who were in the U.S. illegally or were convicted of other crimes.

They say the arrests were made over three days in 10 states. Those arrested fall into three groups: legal immigrants with convictions that make them eligible for deportation, illegal immigrants who have been convicted of other crimes, and immigration fugitives, who are wanted just for being in the U.S. illegally.

Read more: Feds arrest 370 immigrants in raids in 10 states


Reminds me of the movie "Catch Me If You Can"


----------



## SFC Ollie

LilOlLady said:


> .
> *Feds arrest 370 immigrants in raids in 10 states*Read more: Feds arrest 370 immigrants in raids in 10 states
> 
> CHICAGO - Federal officials in Chicago say they've arrested 370 immigrants who were in the U.S. illegally or were convicted of other crimes.
> 
> They say the arrests were made over three days in 10 states. Those arrested fall into three groups: legal immigrants with convictions that make them eligible for deportation, illegal immigrants who have been convicted of other crimes, and immigration fugitives, who are wanted just for being in the U.S. illegally.
> 
> Read more: Feds arrest 370 immigrants in raids in 10 states
> 
> 
> Reminds me of the movie "Catch Me If You Can"



It's a start.


----------



## ABikerSailor

LilOlLady said:


> *Troops to start deploying on Arizona border on Monday*
> 
> Soldiers will have guns for self-defense, but they will not have the authority to arrest anyone.
> 
> He says the troops will have guns for *self-defense, *but they will not have the authority to arrest anyone themselves; if they spot illegal immigrants, they must report them to the Border Patrol.
> 
> Read more: Troops to deploy to Arizona border on Monday
> 
> 
> *Self defense is good enough for me. Because they will be fired upon and they can fire back.*



Yo......Big Ol' Bitch........what part of "useless" do you not understand?

All they can do is look and report?  Fuck.....send up a Predator drone and it will do a better job CHEAPER.

Try again you stupid twat.


----------



## rdean

Republicans are busy targeting Muslims right now.

When they are finished, they will come back to targeting Hispanics.

They're saving gays for sometime after Christmas.


----------



## SFC Ollie

rdean said:


> Republicans are busy targeting Muslims right now.
> 
> When they are finished, they will come back to targeting Hispanics.
> 
> They're saving gays for sometime after Christmas.



You tend to forget that some of us Republicans are married to Hispanics. Dumbass.


----------



## LilOlLady

*MORE ICE AGENTS AND MORE FUNDING*.

ICE dropping deportation cases because of *backlog and funding and to save taxpayers money?* All that tell us is that the we *need more ICE agents and more money *and not Comprehensive Immigration Reform and *our immigration system is not broken, it is just not funded and not enough agents.*If we dont have enough manpower or funds then how can we expect the immigration enforcement system work?  The solutions is not to do nothing and complain that the system is broken.
*We have 20 million illegal aliens in this country because we have done nothing *and nothing is not the solution and neither is Comprehensive Immigration Reform. (amnesty)  Where will we get the funding for CIR or the man power to process 20 million into a path to citizenship. (amnesty)
How do we know the immigration system is broken when we have never had to funds or the manpower to test it? *We dont know if it is broken or not.*

Enforcing our immigration laws are not high on our list to do things. We are selective about the laws we enforce. *We chose to enforce the 14th Amendment but not the Federal Immigration and Nationality Acts that say illegal aliens are deportable.  *They are not even deporting criminals?


Feds to drop deportation of thousands of illegal immigrants
Aug 28, 2010 ... Feds to drop deportation of thousands of illegal immigrants, The Obama administration is moving to throw out deportation cases against ...
Feds to drop deportation of thousands of illegal immigrants


----------



## LilOlLady

Appellants' Opening Brief - 8/26/2010 
 Addendum to Appellants' Opening Brief - 8/26/2010 
http://www.azgovernor.gov/


----------



## Big Black Dog

While they're at it, it's too bad they couldn't request a recall Presidental election.


----------



## LilOlLady

Count Dracula said:


> While they're at it, it's too bad they couldn't request a recall Presidental election.



cute, but get serious.


----------



## Dan40

Zona said:


> My ancestors came here as illegals on slave ships.  Dammit, by proxy I am an illegal! This sucks.



No, THAT is what the 14th amendment is all about.  Awarding citizenship to the offspring of those brought here against their will.  It was not and should not be about today's anchor babies.  Their parents came here, ILLEGALLY, of their own free will.  Choosing to break our laws should not have ANY kind of reward, or even consideration, attached.  Some liberals say the illegals are just coming here to work to better themselves and their families.

Well the same can and should be said of the many millions that have applied, legally, to come here but are denied by the influx of ILLEGALS.


----------



## Angelhair

Count Dracula said:


> While they're at it, it's too bad they couldn't request a recall Presidental election.



_That might well be their next attempt._


----------



## LilOlLady

WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY

Trying to secure the border is a waste of time and money. Lots of money and lots of time. Illegal aliens are caught, dropped off at the border and are caught again the next day or they make it across and into the interior and add to the 20 million already here. Why do we even bother catching them when they are caught crossing, released and cross again, caught again and released again,etc if we do nothing about the incentives that bring the here? Jobs. Securing the border depends on drying up the jobs that keep bringing them here. IF nothing is done about businesses desire for cheap labor, trying to securing the border is a waste of time and taxpayers money. If they know there were no jobs, they would leave and they would not attempt to cross the border unless they are smuggling drugs. Dry up the jobs and only those smuggling drugs will be attempting to cross. We waste time chasing illegal aliens all across the desert and drug smugglers are getting across.
They are not looking for a better life, they are looking for the good cushy life. Even crime pays better her than in Mexico.


----------



## LilOlLady

Even a 5th grader can figure this one out, Obama. If they are crossing the border to get to jobs that are waiting for them, how do you stop them from crossing? Take away the bloody jobs. For Christ's sake.

If a mouse is trying to get to the cheese, take away the bloody cheese. Is that clear enough for you, Obama


----------



## LilOlLady

ANOTHER INCENTIVE; AMNESTY

The border is more secure than ever and yet illegal aliens are streaming across the border. More secure than ever is not stopping them. Border patrol agents are putting their lives on the line trying to stop illegal immigration and at the same time our government is encouraging more illegal immigration because of Obamas promise of amnesty. Another incentive beside jobs, the 14th Amendment and freebies. Border patrol agents catch them and take the back across the border and they just turn around and try again and some of the get by and some are caught and released again. 

With the promise of amnesty, and still jobs for them and the 14th Amendment still in place, NOTHING will stop them. With these incentives, securing the border first is just a dream.

Put this to you 5th  grader and ask him or her what they think the solution is and they will tell  you. And yet our government cannot.


----------



## Bullfighter

LilOlLady said:


> ANOTHER INCENTIVE; AMNESTY
> 
> The border is more secure than ever and yet illegal aliens are streaming across the border. More secure than ever is not stopping them. Border patrol agents are putting their lives on the line trying to stop illegal immigration and at the same time our government is encouraging more illegal immigration because of Obamas promise of amnesty. Another incentive beside jobs, the 14th Amendment and freebies. Border patrol agents catch them and take the back across the border and they just turn around and try again and some of the get by and some are caught and released again.
> 
> With the promise of amnesty, and still jobs for them and the 14th Amendment still in place, NOTHING will stop them. With these incentives, securing the border first is just a dream.
> 
> Put this to you 5th  grader and ask him or her what they think the solution is and they will tell  you. And yet our government cannot.



Counter attack by offering to support the immigrating of people from the eastern hemisphere to Mexico. Let's see if Mexicans will enjoy the diversity that Americans have.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Arizona Now Has Whopping 30 Nation15 Billboard Signs Warning Citizens About Drug Cartels Operating on Public Lands*
Wednesday, September 01, 2010
By Penny Starr, Senior Staff Writer 
al Guard Troops and 
Bureau of Land Management sign in Arizona, "DANGER - PUBLIC WARNING, TRAVEL NOT RECOMMENDED, Visitors May Encounter Armed Criminals and Smuggling Vehicles Traveling at High Rates of Speed."(CNSNews.com)  Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu said requests by Arizona law enforcement personnel and Sens. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and Jon Kyl (R-Ariz.) for 3,000 National Guard troops along the states border with Mexico have been answered so far with 1 percent of that number deployed there this week.

CNSNews.com - Arizona Now Has ?Whopping 30? National Guard Troops and 15 Billboard Signs Warning Citizens About Drug Cartels Operating on Public Lands


----------



## LilOlLady

Survey charts 'sharp decline' in illegals
Economy, enforcement credited

The population of illegal immigrants clearly shrank in Florida, Nevada and Virginia, and may have fallen slightly in other states, the report said.

But Mr. Obama also has asked Congress to pass a bill legalizing most illegal immigrants and granting a path to citizenship. He argues that illegal immigrants already in the U.S. are *unlikely to leave* and their status can't be left in limbo.
Survey charts &#39;sharp decline&#39; in illegals - Washington Times

When the economy went south, *millions of illegal aliens went south*. Obama do not want them to leave.

*
US Economy So Bad Illegal Aliens Heading Back to Mexico* ...
Dec 24, 2007 ... Mexican illegal immigrant Lindi sat down with her husband Marco Antonio in the weeks before Christmas to decide when to go back to Mexico. ...
newsbusters.org/.../reuters-us-economy-so-bad-illegal-aliens-heading-back-mexico - Cached - Similar

*Illegal Immigrants Returning to Mexico in Record Numbers *- Local ...
Aug 22, 2008 ... DALLAS  Illegal immigrants are returning home to Mexico in numbers ... Its research shows 1.3 million illegal immigrants have returned to ...
Illegal Immigrants Returning to Mexico in Record Numbers - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com - Cached - Similar


Obama don't have a clue.


----------



## LilOlLady

Inspite of the promise of amnesty, they are leaving and going home. What good is amnesty if there is no work?


----------



## Bullfighter

LilOlLady said:


> *Arizona Now Has Whopping 30 Nation15 Billboard Signs Warning Citizens About Drug Cartels Operating on Public Lands*
> Wednesday, September 01, 2010
> By Penny Starr, Senior Staff Writer
> al Guard Troops and
> Bureau of Land Management sign in Arizona, "DANGER - PUBLIC WARNING, TRAVEL NOT RECOMMENDED, Visitors May Encounter Armed Criminals and Smuggling Vehicles Traveling at High Rates of Speed."(CNSNews.com)  Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu said requests by Arizona law enforcement personnel and Sens. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and Jon Kyl (R-Ariz.) for 3,000 National Guard troops along the states border with Mexico have been answered so far with 1 percent of that number deployed there this week.
> 
> CNSNews.com - Arizona Now Has ?Whopping 30? National Guard Troops and 15 Billboard Signs Warning Citizens About Drug Cartels Operating on Public Lands



I heard they are removing all military forces on the border next month and replacing them with a boy scout troop.


----------



## Bullfighter

LilOlLady said:


> Inspite of the promise of amnesty, they are leaving and going home. What good is amnesty if there is no work?



See if you can get them to go to New York City. I hear the blacks are beating the crap out of illegals there.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Thousands of Illegal Immigrants Leave Nevada*

LAS VEGAS -- For the first time in 20 years, illegal immigrants are crossing back over the border, leaving the United States in large numbers. And nowhere else is that more evident than in Nevada, where we are seeing the largest decrease.

A new study from the Pew Hispanic Center found more than 11 million illegal immigrants left the United States last year. Trailing only California with the highest illegal immigrant population, 50,000 illegal immigrants left Nevada.

Thousands of Illegal Immigrants Leave Nevada - KLAS-TV Channel 8 News Las Vegas

That means they are ALL gone since there were *only 11 million here anyway*? Actually there were 20 million here. And we did not have to round them up and put them on busses. And Obama said they were not going to leave?
*LMFAO*


----------



## uscitizen

They are leaving Nevada not Arizona?


----------



## Terral

Hi Lady:



LilOlLady said:


> *Thousands of Illegal Immigrants Leave Nevada*
> 
> LAS VEGAS -- For the first time in 20 years, illegal immigrants are crossing back over the border, leaving the United States in large numbers. And nowhere else is that more evident than in Nevada, where we are seeing the largest decrease ...



You people should realize that the 20 Million-Man Illegal Alien Labor  Pool is supported by a rotating crew of Illegal Aliens that come and go  as they please. Thousands of Illegal Aliens are always heading back to  their home countries with their loot and passing the new Illegals  joining the ranks here in the USA. 

Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals are parasites that are killing the 'American Consumer Host.' Eventually there is not enough life blood in the American Consumer to support 20 million goddamned Illegal Aliens. The rats will continue escaping from the sinking American Ship, while the U.S. Economy continues to IMPLODE ...

GL,

Terral


----------



## LilOlLady

uscitizen said:


> They are leaving Nevada not Arizona?



They are leaving Arizona too, but what blows me away is that 11 million have already left and that leaves how many if there is only about 12 million?


----------



## Luissa

uscitizen said:


> They are leaving Nevada not Arizona?



They are leaving both. While I have heard, here in Washington we are seeing an increase in illegal aliens. For one we are one of the few states that doesn't require them to prove citizenship to get a drivers license.


----------



## Gunny

LilOlLady said:


> *Thousands of Illegal Immigrants Leave Nevada*
> 
> LAS VEGAS -- *For the first time in 20 years, illegal immigrants are crossing back over the border, leaving the United States in large numbers.* And nowhere else is that more evident than in Nevada, where we are seeing the largest decrease.
> 
> A new study from the Pew Hispanic Center found more than 11 million illegal immigrants left the United States last year. Trailing only California with the highest illegal immigrant population, 50,000 illegal immigrants left Nevada.
> 
> Thousands of Illegal Immigrants Leave Nevada - KLAS-TV Channel 8 News Las Vegas
> 
> That means they are ALL gone since there were *only 11 million here anyway*? Actually there were 20 million here. And we did not have to round them up and put them on busses. And Obama said they were not going to leave?
> *LMFAO*



Good.

They should have never been let in to begin with; much, have to be rounded.  They're STILL criminals, period.


----------



## Gunny

uscitizen said:


> They are leaving Nevada not Arizona?



They NEED to leave the United States of America.  They are within our borders illegally.  That would make them criminals.

So I just start robbing banks and because I don't like the law that says you can prosecute me for it, you can prosecute me right?  While I'm at it, I'm not going to pay taxes anymore.


----------



## Toro

Obviously, 11 million illegals haven't left.  There are 11 million _left_.  Here is the study.



> The annual inflow of unauthorized immigrants to the U.S. was nearly two-thirds smaller in the March 2007 to March 2009 period than it had been from March 2000 to March 2005, according to new estimates by the Pew Hispanic Center. This decline contributed to an overall 8% reduction in the unauthorized immigrant population, which fell to 11.1 million in 2009 from 12 million in 2007. By region of origin, the population of unauthorized immigrants from Latin American countries other than Mexico has declined most markedly. By U.S. region, the decrease in the unauthorized immigrant population has been especially notable along the nation&#8217;s Southeast coast and in its Mountain West.



U.S. Unauthorized Immigration Flows Are Down Sharply Since Mid-Decade - Pew Hispanic Center

The deep recession has been the best policy thus far of ridding the country of illegal immigrants.


----------



## Luissa

Gunny said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are leaving Nevada not Arizona?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They NEED to leave the United States of America.  They are within our borders illegally.  That would make them criminals.
> 
> So I just start robbing banks and because I don't like the law that says you can prosecute me for it, you can prosecute me right?  While I'm at it, I'm not going to pay taxes anymore.
Click to expand...


It technically isn't illegal to be here illegally. It is crime to enter, but not to stay.


----------



## Againsheila

LilOlLady said:


> *Thousands of Illegal Immigrants Leave Nevada*
> 
> LAS VEGAS -- For the first time in 20 years, illegal immigrants are crossing back over the border, leaving the United States in large numbers. And nowhere else is that more evident than in Nevada, where we are seeing the largest decrease.
> 
> A new study from the Pew Hispanic Center found more than 11 million illegal immigrants left the United States last year. Trailing only California with the highest illegal immigrant population, 50,000 illegal immigrants left Nevada.
> 
> Thousands of Illegal Immigrants Leave Nevada - KLAS-TV Channel 8 News Las Vegas
> 
> That means they are ALL gone since there were *only 11 million here anyway*? Actually there were 20 million here. And we did not have to round them up and put them on busses. And Obama said they were not going to leave?
> *LMFAO*



I'd be thrilled, except that they are coming here and our state is giving them driver's licenses.......


----------



## Luissa

Againsheila said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Thousands of Illegal Immigrants Leave Nevada*
> 
> LAS VEGAS -- For the first time in 20 years, illegal immigrants are crossing back over the border, leaving the United States in large numbers. And nowhere else is that more evident than in Nevada, where we are seeing the largest decrease.
> 
> A new study from the Pew Hispanic Center found more than 11 million illegal immigrants left the United States last year. Trailing only California with the highest illegal immigrant population, 50,000 illegal immigrants left Nevada.
> 
> Thousands of Illegal Immigrants Leave Nevada - KLAS-TV Channel 8 News Las Vegas
> 
> That means they are ALL gone since there were *only 11 million here anyway*? Actually there were 20 million here. And we did not have to round them up and put them on busses. And Obama said they were not going to leave?
> *LMFAO*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd be thrilled, except that they are coming here and our state is giving them driver's licenses.......
Click to expand...


Wouldn't you rather them have their own, than steal your's? One used my SSN number to work here in Washington. My feeling is, if they have their own they are not going to be using mine. They can open a credit card and numerous other things with just a driver's license. Who knows what all the guy used my SSN for.


----------



## LilOlLady

*NONE-ENFORCEMENT BROKE THE IMMIGRATION SYSTEM*

We have immigration laws that keep our immigration system strong but we failed to enforce those laws and now we blame the system for our failure to enforce those laws. The Federal Immigration and Nationality Act keeps the system working.

None-enforcement broke the immigration system and continue to do so by the failure of Feds to enforce those laws and go after illegal aliens and business that hire illegal aliens and those that harbor and abet illegal aliens. Our own government.

Amnesty under the guise of* Comprehensive Immigration Reform *and a path to citizenship will not fix the broken immigrations system. Neither will securing the border. 

Enforcement of our immigration laws is the only way to fix our broken immigration system and a temporary workers program, controlled and limited legal immigration.

Who in our country has the cajones to enforce our immigration laws and tell Mexico to kiss a**?  Find him or her and get them in office.


----------



## LilOlLady

*On the "materialistic greed" of illegal aliens *


People who die in the desert while breaking U.S. laws in order to illegally take a job and illegally increase their income and consumption are among the worst kind of materialists. Since the Pew Hispanic Research Center has found that most illegal aliens crossing the Mexican border are far from hungry or destitute and in fact quit a job back home to become an illegal alien, it is clear these are people who value more things and more money above even their own lives. 

On the "materialistic greed" of illegal aliens


We all know they come for the freebies, free healthcare, free education and drop that jackpot baby and cash in on all the freebies for them.
Some of them pay thousands of dollars to smugglers to get here. Criminals come here because crime is more lucrative here. Gangs come to deal the drugs and commit crime. All this is greed. And our government lap it all up like a little puppy.

Illegal aliens want to own it but it does not belong to them;
_*
 "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"*_


----------



## ABikerSailor

What about the materialistic greedy bastards of the GOP?


----------



## SFC Ollie

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKFuYykPSxI]YouTube - Brian Haner - Arizona[/ame]


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aQKltdwzzY&feature=related]YouTube - Brian Haner - Arizona (Crowd Reaction!)[/ame]


----------



## LilOlLady

ABikerSailor said:


> What about the materialistic greedy bastards of the GOP?



That's another story in another message forum. The article is about the greed of illegal aliens and why they come here. 
Want to talk about greed of the right and left? Charlie Rangel,Maxine Waters, Bernice Johnson, Mike Pence, etc?

Congress - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum


----------



## LilOlLady

Poll: *Nevadans losing jobs to immigrant workers*
Associated Press  September 12, 2010 

The Las Vegas Review Journal reports its joint poll with 8NewsNow found 54 percent of respondents believe *Nevadans are losing jobs to undocumented workers*. Thirty-one percent said the immigrant workforce does jobs Nevadans wouldnt take. 

Nearly half of respondents said *tougher immigration laws *would help the states economy. 

A majority * 57 percent * also said they would support a constitutional amendment *denying automatic U.S. citizenship to children born to undocumented persons*. 


Poll: Nevadans losing jobs to immigrant workers | rgj.com | The Reno Gazette-Journal


----------



## Charles_Main

The are no Jobs Americans wont do, only wages Americans wont work for. These illegal workers drive the pay of whole industries down to the point where Most Americans can not live off of them.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Jobs Americans Wont Do?* 
*A Detailed Look at Immigrant Employment by Occupation*By Steven A. Camarota, Karen Jensenius 
August 2009
This analysis tests the often-made argument that immigrants only do jobs Americans dont want. If the argument is correct, there should be* occupations comprised entirely or almost entirely of immigrants*. But Census Bureau data collected from 2005 to 2007, which allow for very detailed analysis, show that even before the recession there were only *a tiny number of majority-immigrant occupations*. (Click here to see detailed table.) 

Among the findings:

Of the 465 civilian occupations, *only four are majority immigrant*. These four occupations account for less than 1 percent of the total U.S. workforce. Moreover, *native-born Americans comprise 47 percent of workers in these occupations*.


Many jobs often thought to be overwhelmingly immigrant are in fact majority native-born: 

&#9702;Maids and housekeepers: 55 percent native-born
&#9702;Taxi drivers and chauffeurs: 58 percent native-born
&#9702;Butchers and meat processors: 63 percent native-born
&#9702;Grounds maintenance workers: 65 percent native-born
&#9702;Construction laborers: 65 percent native-born
&#9702;Porters, bellhops, and concierges: 71 percent native-born
&#9702;Janitors: 75 percent native-born


Jobs Americans Won?t Do? A Detailed Look at Immigrant Employment by Occupation | Center for Immigration Studies


----------



## William Joyce

White Americans!

You're now an endangered species.

Congratulations.

But you're not _racist_, are you?

'Cause that would be real bad.

Just keep accepting your death as a people, and soon, the pain will stop.

Pssst!

Maybe if you were a little bit "racist", that would actually be a GOOD thing?

Eh?


----------



## Charles_Main

William Joyce said:


> White Americans!
> 
> You're now an endangered species.
> 
> Congratulations.
> 
> But you're not _racist_, are you?
> 
> 'Cause that would be real bad.
> 
> Just keep accepting your death as a people, and soon, the pain will stop.
> 
> Pssst!
> 
> Maybe if you were a little bit "racist", that would actually be a GOOD thing?
> 
> Eh?


um no. See the definition of Racism is a feeling of superiority over another group of people based on their race. 

Now you can be opposed to Flooding our labor markets with cheap labor from Illegal and legal immigrants and not be a racists. Well not according to the left. But you can.


----------



## Bullfighter

*MAYOR OF CHICAGO?*​


----------



## LilOlLady

*97% of Illegal Aliens Take Jobs That Americans Want and Need*
Tony Dolz
April 07, 2006

*3% of Illegal Aliens Do Low-Paid Stoop Agricultural Labor*;
the Remaining* 97% Take Jobs That Americans Want and Need *


The most recent Pew Hispanic Center?s study indicates that 97% of 12 to 20 million illegal aliens are working in c*onstruction, hospitality, manufacturing, restaurant, administrative and service jobs. *Are these jobs that Americans will not do?
American Chronicle | 97% of Illegal Aliens Take Jobs That Americans Want and Need


----------



## Avorysuds

Yup.


----------



## rightwinger

Shut up and cut my lawn


----------



## Bullfighter

rightwinger said:


> Shut up and cut my lawn



Before you hire a Mexican, you must first negotiate the price through the Latino Union of Chicago.

Latino Union of Chicago $20,000
Project: Day Laborer Project 3rd Year
Issue Area: Workers
Since 2000, the Latino Union of Chicago has collaborated with
low-income immigrant workers from Albany Park, Pilsen,
Avondale, and Cicero to improve social and economic conditions.
Need: 1/3 of day laborers will experience serious injury this year
and at least 16% will be arrested while looking for work. Due to
the economic downturn, street corners and the Worker Center
have seen a drop in employment opportunities. Newspapers report
that 250,000 Latinos have lost jobs in the construction industry
alone. Accomplishments: In the past three years, the Albany
Park Workers Center has raised the median wage from $7/hour on
the street corner to $13/hour. A written contract at the Center has
eliminated wage theft for hired day laborers.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Mexicans Facing Drug War Violence 
Could Seek Political Asylum in U.S.*
By Ed Barnes
The spreading violence of the drug wars along the Mexican border may have one unintended consequence. It could upend efforts to curb illegal immigrants by giving Mexican border-crossers a tool they never had before:* a valid claim for political asylum*.
FOXNews.com - Mexicans Facing Drug War Violence Could Seek Political Asylum in U.S.


----------



## LilOlLady

Charles_Main said:


> The are no Jobs Americans wont do, only *wages Americans wont work for.* These illegal workers drive the pay of whole industries down to the point where Most Americans can not live off of them.



Wages has not always been the issue. Some Amerians just want a job. Businesses prefer illegal because they can *get more work out of them *without them complaining and they are threatened with deportation. They will hire an illegal even if an American is applying.


----------



## Angelhair

_Mexico is ripe for the taking._


----------



## LilOlLady

angelhair said:


> _mexico is ripe for the taking._



for what? A nuclear waste dump site?


----------



## LilOlLady

* 
OUR GOVERNMENT IS BROKEN.*
If our govt enforced our immigration laws, border patrol agents would not be putting their lives on the line day and night chasing illegal aliens and smugglers. If there were no jobs for them, not automatic birthright citizenship for their children and no promise of amnesty they would not be crossing the border to get here leaving border patrol agents free to chase drug smugglers.
We do not need immigration reform which is nothing but amnesty and encourage more illegal immigration. Immigration Reform is just an prelude to doing away with immigration laws altogether?
*TAKE THE KEYS AWAY FROM THE DEMOS IN NOVEMBER AND IN 2012.*


*AMNESTY means never having immigration enforcement! *


----------



## LilOlLady

*DIRTY HARRYand STUPID OBAMA*
Trying to sneak amnesty into the defense bill under the disguise as the Dream Act. Does volunteering at the Boys Club or Food Bank count as service to your country? And Obama do not know the difference between illegal aliens and American citizens.

Take the keys to the country away from Reid and Obama before they give it away. Reid want to add more poverty to the country when Nevada has the highest rate of unemployment and the poverty level is 14%. What is wrong with this scenario? 
Reid and Obama.

Obama do not know the difference between illegal aliens and American citizens. He say he got news for us, "there is no us and them, only us."

They figure if they legalize all the children, the parents will benefit with legalization also. Dream Act is back door amnesty, bypassing a path to citizenship.

Ilegal aliens are in this country illegally and we don't want them here or serving in the military. It is "unamerican." If they have a contribution to make, let them make it to Mexico who needs their help. Illegal aliens are a "liability" for this country and not an "asset."

It is time for illegal immigration to stop. Its time to bring back "Operation Wet Back."

Take the keys to the country away from Reid and Obama.

_______________________________________________________________

"Amnesty is never have to enforce our immigration laws."


----------



## midcan5

Some forget we are all immigrants, and most forget the father of the winguttery gave amnesty to illegals.

A Reagan Legacy: Amnesty For Illegal Immigrants : NPR

"In his renewed push for an immigration overhaul this week, President Obama called for Republican support for a bill to address the growing population of illegal immigrants in the country. This time, however, Republicans know better than to tread near the politically toxic A-word.

Part of this aversion is due to what is widely seen as the failure of Reagan's 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act. However, one of the lead authors of the bill says that unlike most immigration reform efforts of the past 20 years, amnesty wasn't the pitfall.

"We used the word 'legalization,' " former Wyoming Sen. Alan K. Simpson tells NPR's Guy Raz. "And everybody fell asleep lightly for a while, and we were able to do legalization."

*The law granted amnesty to nearly 3 million illegal immigrants, yet was largely considered unsuccessful because the strict sanctions on employers were stripped out of the bill for passage. "*


----------



## AquaAthena

LilOlLady said:


> *DIRTY HARRYand STUPID OBAMA*
> Trying to sneak amnesty into the defense bill under the disguise as the Dream Act. Does volunteering at the Boys Club or Food Bank count as service to your country? And Obama do not know the difference between illegal aliens and American citizens.
> 
> Take the keys to the country away from Reid and Obama before they give it away. Reid want to add more poverty to the country when Nevada has the highest rate of unemployment and the poverty level is 14%. What is wrong with this scenario?
> Reid and Obama.
> 
> Obama do not know the difference between illegal aliens and American citizens. He say he got news for us, "there is no us and them, only us."
> 
> They figure if they legalize all the children, the parents will benefit with legalization also. Dream Act is back door amnesty, bypassing a path to citizenship.
> 
> Ilegal aliens are in this country illegally and we don't want them here or serving in the military. It is "unamerican." If they have a contribution to make, let them make it to Mexico who needs their help. Illegal aliens are a "liability" for this country and not an "asset."
> 
> It is time for illegal immigration to stop. Its time to bring back "Operation Wet Back."
> 
> Take the keys to the country away from Reid and Obama.
> 
> _______________________________________________________________
> 
> "Amnesty is never have to enforce our immigration laws."



His last ditch political effort to get the Hispanic vote, before November. It's a ploy for attention and not expected to gain any ground.


----------



## Bullfighter

midcan5 said:


> Some forget we are all immigrants, and most forget the father of the winguttery gave amnesty to illegals.
> 
> A Reagan Legacy: Amnesty For Illegal Immigrants : NPR
> 
> "In his renewed push for an immigration overhaul this week, President Obama called for Republican support for a bill to address the growing population of illegal immigrants in the country. This time, however, Republicans know better than to tread near the politically toxic A-word.
> 
> Part of this aversion is due to what is widely seen as the failure of Reagan's 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act. However, one of the lead authors of the bill says that unlike most immigration reform efforts of the past 20 years, amnesty wasn't the pitfall.
> 
> "We used the word 'legalization,' " former Wyoming Sen. Alan K. Simpson tells NPR's Guy Raz. "And everybody fell asleep lightly for a while, and we were able to do legalization."
> 
> *The law granted amnesty to nearly 3 million illegal immigrants, yet was largely considered unsuccessful because the strict sanctions on employers were stripped out of the bill for passage. "*



Former President Theodore Roosevelt in speaking to the largely Irish Catholic Knights of Columbus at Carnegie Hall on Columbus Day 1915, asserted that,[3]

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all... The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic... There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.

President Woodrow Wilson regarded "hyphenated Americans" with suspicion, saying, "Any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready."[4][5][6]


----------



## LilOlLady

THEY BROUGHT CHILDREN WITH THEM 



Illegal aliens brought children with them when they crossed the border leaving family and friends behind and they could not speak English and we taught them English and they adjusted. Illegal aliens in this country can take their anchor babies with them when they are deported and they already speak Spanish and know the culture and they will adjust better than those children that crossed the border with their parents.



Luis Gutierrez: We should not separate families. We do not separate families when we enforce our immigration laws. Illegal aliens use that as a lame excuse and there is no excuse for them not to take their children with them. 



It is not fair and it is wrong to allow those that enter the country illegally to be allow to remain ahead of those who have been waiting to enter legally. They need to go home and get in line behind those that are waiting.



Our immigration system is not broken but our government is and need fixing. And we do that by sending Reid and Obama home and tell Mexico and Luis Gutierrez to go to hell.

_______________________________________________

Amnesty is never having to enforce our immigration laws.


----------



## LilOlLady

Do you think he is serious about the Dream Act or is it just a plot? He got my attention because I will not vote for him and will vote for Angle just to vote against him.


----------



## LilOlLady

Bullfighter said:


> midcan5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some forget we are all immigrants, and most forget the father of the winguttery gave amnesty to illegals.
> 
> A Reagan Legacy: Amnesty For Illegal Immigrants : NPR
> 
> "In his renewed push for an immigration overhaul this week, President Obama called for Republican support for a bill to address the growing population of illegal immigrants in the country. This time, however, Republicans know better than to tread near the politically toxic A-word.
> 
> Part of this aversion is due to what is widely seen as the failure of Reagan's 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act. However, one of the lead authors of the bill says that unlike most immigration reform efforts of the past 20 years, amnesty wasn't the pitfall.
> 
> "We used the word 'legalization,' " former Wyoming Sen. Alan K. Simpson tells NPR's Guy Raz. "And everybody fell asleep lightly for a while, and we were able to do legalization."
> 
> *The law granted amnesty to nearly 3 million illegal immigrants, yet was largely considered unsuccessful because the strict sanctions on employers were stripped out of the bill for passage. "*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Former President Theodore Roosevelt in speaking to the largely Irish Catholic Knights of Columbus at Carnegie Hall on Columbus Day 1915, asserted that,[3]
> 
> There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all... The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic... There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.
> 
> President Woodrow Wilson regarded "hyphenated Americans" with suspicion, saying, "Any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready."[4][5][6]
Click to expand...


There is absolutely nothing wrong with hephenated Amercans. That is who we are and what is is. I am proud to be Native-American raised by a Afro-American family and do not want to give that up just for a name which does not change who I am. Afro-American is my culture. There is a reponsibility that comes with that.


----------



## LilOlLady

Bullfighter said:


> midcan5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some forget we are all immigrants, and most forget the father of the winguttery gave amnesty to illegals.
> 
> A Reagan Legacy: Amnesty For Illegal Immigrants : NPR
> 
> "In his renewed push for an immigration overhaul this week, President Obama called for Republican support for a bill to address the growing population of illegal immigrants in the country. This time, however, Republicans know better than to tread near the politically toxic A-word.
> 
> Part of this aversion is due to what is widely seen as the failure of Reagan's 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act. However, one of the lead authors of the bill says that unlike most immigration reform efforts of the past 20 years, amnesty wasn't the pitfall.
> 
> "We used the word 'legalization,' " former Wyoming Sen. Alan K. Simpson tells NPR's Guy Raz. "And everybody fell asleep lightly for a while, and we were able to do legalization."
> 
> *The law granted amnesty to nearly 3 million illegal immigrants, yet was largely considered unsuccessful because the strict sanctions on employers were stripped out of the bill for passage. "*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Former President Theodore Roosevelt in speaking to the largely Irish Catholic Knights of Columbus at Carnegie Hall on Columbus Day 1915, asserted that,[3]
> 
> There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all... The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic... There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.
> 
> President Woodrow Wilson regarded "hyphenated Americans" with suspicion, saying, "Any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready."[4][5][6]
Click to expand...


Woodrow Wilson was dead wrong.


----------



## LilOlLady

Then I would have to agree with Obama. There is no US and THEM only US.


----------



## blu

IMO it should be 50k an employee, it would stop employers from doing it and it would make the illegals go back home b/c they would have no where to work


----------



## Charles_Main

blu said:


> IMO it should be 50k an employee, it would stop employers from doing it and it would make the illegals go back home b/c they would have no where to work



I don't think monetary punishment is enough. Jail time is in order.


----------



## Big Black Dog

I think a week in jail and a $10,000 fine would be a good start for a first offense.

Maybe a month in jail and a $100,000 fine second time caught.

A year in jail and a $1,000,000 fine the third time.

Three strikes and you're "out".


----------



## Zoom-boing

Fines and jail time.


----------



## blu

Charles_Main said:


> blu said:
> 
> 
> 
> IMO it should be 50k an employee, it would stop employers from doing it and it would make the illegals go back home b/c they would have no where to work
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think monetary punishment is enough. Jail time is in order.
Click to expand...


hmm arresting people through a corporation is pretty tough... who would get arrested in the company?


----------



## MaggieMae

Loss of license to do business for 30 days.


----------



## SFC Ollie

LilOlLady said:


> Then I would have to agree with Obama. There is no US and THEM only US.



That makes you a racist instead of an American.


----------



## rdean

Hey, what ever happened to "Too much big government.  You should "deregulate" and let the market sort it out?"


----------



## Charles_Main

blu said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blu said:
> 
> 
> 
> IMO it should be 50k an employee, it would stop employers from doing it and it would make the illegals go back home b/c they would have no where to work
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think monetary punishment is enough. Jail time is in order.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hmm arresting people through a corporation is pretty tough... who would get arrested in the company?
Click to expand...


Most hiring of illegals is not done by cooperation's my friend. The vast majority of Illegals are employed by smaller businesses.


----------



## Charles_Main

rdean said:


> Hey, what ever happened to "Too much big government.  You should "deregulate" and let the market sort it out?"



I guess you simply can not grasp that protecting our border and dealing with Illegal Immigration is one of the FEW jobs of our federal government. Supporting them enforcing these laws is entirely consistent with being a constitutionalists.


----------



## blu

Charles_Main said:


> blu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think monetary punishment is enough. Jail time is in order.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hmm arresting people through a corporation is pretty tough... who would get arrested in the company?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most hiring of illegals is not done by cooperation's my friend. The vast majority of Illegals are employed by smaller businesses.
Click to expand...


there is still hiring by large corporations, but you still didn't answer the question of who would get arrested in the company


----------



## MaggieMae

Charles_Main said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, what ever happened to "Too much big government.  You should "deregulate" and let the market sort it out?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess you simply can not grasp that protecting our border and dealing with Illegal Immigration is one of the FEW jobs of our federal government. Supporting them enforcing these laws is entirely consistent with being a constitutionalists.
Click to expand...


E-Verify needs to be mandatory, not an option. That will take care of 99% of the problem.


----------



## Charles_Main

blu said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blu said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm arresting people through a corporation is pretty tough... who would get arrested in the company?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most hiring of illegals is not done by cooperation's my friend. The vast majority of Illegals are employed by smaller businesses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> there is still hiring by large corporations, but you still didn't answer the question of who would get arrested in the company
Click to expand...


Well as you pointed out it would be hard to find a person to arrest in a cooperation. But as I said 80% of the jobs in the country come from small business, that holds true for who is employing illegals. Now in those cases I would arrest the owner and managers who did he hiring and let the court decide who knew what.


----------



## Madeline

I'm a scorched earth person on this.  Prison time and forfeiture of the business's gross profits for the year that any illegal was employed.  If it's a second offense or a pattern of conduct (e.g., over 25% of all employees are illegals) then seize the business and liquidate it.

And BTW, I-9's are required on all new hires.  If there are exceptions, I'm unaware of them.


----------



## Againsheila

blu said:


> IMO it should be 50k an employee, it would stop employers from doing it and it would make the illegals go back home b/c they would have no where to work



$10,000 fine per illegal employee and 2 years jail time, also  per employee, it would stop real fast.

Oh and on the third infraction, the business is closed and sold to pay for the exportation of illegals from this country.


----------



## Againsheila

blu said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blu said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm arresting people through a corporation is pretty tough... who would get arrested in the company?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most hiring of illegals is not done by cooperation's my friend. The vast majority of Illegals are employed by smaller businesses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> there is still hiring by large corporations, but you still didn't answer the question of who would get arrested in the company
Click to expand...


The person who hired the illegal, and that person's boss, and that person's boss, all the way up to the CEO of the company and he also does jailtime.


----------



## jillian

Charles_Main said:


> blu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most hiring of illegals is not done by cooperation's my friend. The vast majority of Illegals are employed by smaller businesses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there is still hiring by large corporations, but you still didn't answer the question of who would get arrested in the company
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well as you pointed out it would be hard to find a person to arrest in a cooperation. But as I said 80% of the jobs in the country come from small business, that holds true for who is employing illegals. Now in those cases I would arrest the owner and managers who did he hiring and let the court decide who knew what.
Click to expand...


can i ask where you're getting that 80% figure? the federal government is the largest employer in the country. i believe walmart is number two. i'm not sure about percentages, though, hence my asking.


----------



## Madeline

I'd be contented with the candy-ass consequences the law provides for today, if only they were actually imposed.


----------



## The Infidel

I have a simple answer.... 


JAIL everyone from the CEO down to the person who OK'd the hire.



*JAIL EM ALL!!!!!*


I'm sick of the question.... 

If *CONGRESS* would  enforce the laws ALREADY on the books.... and stop herrassing baseball players for steriod use... or at the very least, go after these criminal employers just as hard, the problem would fix itself. We wouldnt have the petty arguement of.... "how can we deport 20 - 40 million illegals?". Hell..... they'd deport themselves.


----------



## The Infidel

jillian said:


> can i ask where you're getting that 80% figure? the federal government is the largest employer in the country. i believe walmart is number two. i'm not sure about percentages, though, hence my asking.




Do semantics really matter....? 80% -- 60%..... WHATEVER....Its still a large percentage.

Just my opinion, but we need to start punishing employers who are lawbreakers.... big or small.


----------



## johnrocks

rdean said:


> Hey, what ever happened to "Too much big government.  You should "deregulate" and let the market sort it out?"



See, this is where I stand.  I admit, this is a rather tough one for me but I think that employers should be allowed to hire who they want to hire.

Honestly, I think the welfare state contributes to the problem, the employer hiring them is just a symptom of the problem, do away with the free healthcare,anchor babies,free education, etc. and I don't think illegal immigration would even be that big a problem, secure the border more for security purposes, not keeping me in or others out.


----------



## The Infidel

Madeline said:


> I'd be contented with the candy-ass consequences the law provides for today, if only they were actually imposed.



X2..... INFINITY


----------



## Charles_Main

jillian said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blu said:
> 
> 
> 
> there is still hiring by large corporations, but you still didn't answer the question of who would get arrested in the company
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well as you pointed out it would be hard to find a person to arrest in a cooperation. But as I said 80% of the jobs in the country come from small business, that holds true for who is employing illegals. Now in those cases I would arrest the owner and managers who did he hiring and let the court decide who knew what.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> can i ask where you're getting that 80% figure? the federal government is the largest employer in the country. i believe walmart is number two. i'm not sure about percentages, though, hence my asking.
Click to expand...


LOL if you must know form Democrats opposed to tax cuts for the rich. Who constantly tell us 80% of jobs in America are created by small business. In fact I could swear I once said something about cooperations driving our economy and YOU corrected me and said most jobs are created by small business.


----------



## rdean

Charles_Main said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, what ever happened to "Too much big government.  You should "deregulate" and let the market sort it out?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess you simply can not grasp that protecting our border and dealing with Illegal Immigration is one of the FEW jobs of our federal government. Supporting them enforcing these laws is entirely consistent with being a constitutionalists.
Click to expand...


This is you:

Area Man Passionate Defender Of What He Imagines Constitution To Be


----------



## johnrocks

What's next after this, allowing the IRS the power to audit business records to make sure no illegals were hired, the power to spy on employers?

It seems like the "solution" supported by most  for every social ill is more regulations,more prisons,more fines and ultimately more government.


----------



## Charles_Main

rdean said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, what ever happened to "Too much big government.  You should "deregulate" and let the market sort it out?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess you simply can not grasp that protecting our border and dealing with Illegal Immigration is one of the FEW jobs of our federal government. Supporting them enforcing these laws is entirely consistent with being a constitutionalists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is you:
> 
> Area Man Passionate Defender Of What He Imagines Constitution To Be
Click to expand...


Not even going to look at your stupid link. Are you claiming that protecting our borders is not one of the fundamental responsibilities of the Federal government?

I mean what where you implying if not that if I am for strict enforcement of our Immigration laws, and going after companies who hire them is somehow not consistent with the constitution.

One can be for limited government and still want them to do the jobs that are theirs according to the constitution.


----------



## Avorysuds

rdean said:


> Hey, what ever happened to "Too much big government.  You should "deregulate" and let the market sort it out?"





And of course here is the issue, you don't even know what the Governments job is per the constitution, that is why you are ok with growing Government in any direction as you seem to be un aware of its limits of powers as well.

Just to clarify Do you think Government needs to grow and by how much to crack down on employers? 
Do you feel that Government would be the same size if 12-18 million illegals removed themselves from our society Education, HC policing and so on would see no less demand?


----------



## blu

Againsheila said:


> blu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most hiring of illegals is not done by cooperation's my friend. The vast majority of Illegals are employed by smaller businesses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there is still hiring by large corporations, but you still didn't answer the question of who would get arrested in the company
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The person who hired the illegal, and that person's boss, and that person's boss, all the way up to the CEO of the company and he also does jailtime.
Click to expand...


what is some lowly guy in GE hired an illegal. should the CEO that is a thousand ladders up the chain really be punished? it would a very small chance that the ceo would know


----------



## Madeline

Virtually all crimes a person can commit require intent.  Mebbe "willful blindness" or "gross negligence" could suffice, but if the CEO took reasonable steps to assure all hires were legal and one got by him, then no, I don't think the CEO should be punished.


----------



## Charles_Main

blu said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blu said:
> 
> 
> 
> there is still hiring by large corporations, but you still didn't answer the question of who would get arrested in the company
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The person who hired the illegal, and that person's boss, and that person's boss, all the way up to the CEO of the company and he also does jailtime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what is some lowly guy in GE hired an illegal. should the CEO that is a thousand ladders up the chain really be punished? it would a very small chance that the ceo would know
Click to expand...


Of course not, they would need to be proven to have had knowledge of it. We are still of nation of Laws after all


----------



## blu

Charles_Main said:


> blu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> The person who hired the illegal, and that person's boss, and that person's boss, all the way up to the CEO of the company and he also does jailtime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what is some lowly guy in GE hired an illegal. should the CEO that is a thousand ladders up the chain really be punished? it would a very small chance that the ceo would know
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not, they would need to be proven to have had knowledge of it. We are still of nation of Laws after all
Click to expand...


exactly which is what worries me about sending pope to jail since its so hard to prove who knew of the illegal hiring. people at the top could easily shield themselves while mangers and HR staff would be busted quick. its like the mafia w/o rico laws.

I would much prefer heavy finanical fines


----------



## Againsheila

blu said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blu said:
> 
> 
> 
> there is still hiring by large corporations, but you still didn't answer the question of who would get arrested in the company
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The person who hired the illegal, and that person's boss, and that person's boss, all the way up to the CEO of the company and he also does jailtime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what is some lowly guy in GE hired an illegal. should the CEO that is a thousand ladders up the chain really be punished? it would a very small chance that the ceo would know
Click to expand...


Have you ever heard the term "the buck stops here?"  If the CEO didn't know, he should have and he should go to jail for not doing his job.


----------



## blu

Againsheila said:


> blu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> The person who hired the illegal, and that person's boss, and that person's boss, all the way up to the CEO of the company and he also does jailtime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what is some lowly guy in GE hired an illegal. should the CEO that is a thousand ladders up the chain really be punished? it would a very small chance that the ceo would know
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you ever heard the term "the buck stops here?"  If the CEO didn't know, he should have and he should go to jail for not doing his job.
Click to expand...


you are either joking or don't know how companies of that size are run


----------



## Charles_Main

blu said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blu said:
> 
> 
> 
> what is some lowly guy in GE hired an illegal. should the CEO that is a thousand ladders up the chain really be punished? it would a very small chance that the ceo would know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever heard the term "the buck stops here?"  If the CEO didn't know, he should have and he should go to jail for not doing his job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you are either joking or don't know how companies of that size are run
Click to expand...


It is pretty simple man. Even in the largest cooperation. Everyone has a direct boss, and someone who Hired them. They may or may not be the same person. That person for persons for sure should face some jail time. If they knowingly hired them.

The problem is some illegals have fake ID, and stolen or fake SS numbers. You are going to find the odd one here and there they honestly did not know they hired an illegal. 

Take it on a case by case basis. Just like the rest of our court system works. Charge those you can, Don't charge the ones you can't, and yes fine the companies.


----------



## chanel

Agreed Charles.  There are many businesses in our area that hire immigrants, and my gut tells me they all have "papers".  I was talking to someone who was doing payroll temporarily for a construction company and she said she was surprised by the number of dependents many of these folks have.  She speculated that many of them may be illegals, and by exaggerating the number of children they have, they can avoid paying taxes.  That might be a red flag for employers, however it's certainly not their job to investigate the family and count the children.  Sounds like a job for those extra 15,000 IRS agents the prez will hire.

Did anyone see this story?  These people should go away for life.



> A South Florida couple is on trial this week for using a temp agency as a front to enslave at least 39 Filipino workers in the service industry. And most of these workers were not slinging hash at backwater diners and rest stops. They were waiting on the rich and famous who frequent the country clubs of Boca Raton and Miami.
> 
> Sophia Manuel and Alfonso Baldonado Jr. ran a temporary staffing agency that promised foreign workers the chance to come work in the U.S. For a fee, Manuel and Baldonado would supposedly provide housing, job placement, and transportation for the workers. But for at least 39 men and women who traveled to the U.S. from the Philippines for jobs, all Manuel and Baldonado provided was slavery.
> 
> Anywhere between 20 and 40 workers shared the cramped, 3-bedroom house, meaning most of them slept on the floor and in the garage. Their meals consisted of chicken innards and rotten vegetables. The workers were frequently woken in the middle of the night and quizzed on service industry knowledge, like drink recipes. During the course of their captivity, one worker broke his wrist and another began coughing up blood. Neither was allowed to see a doctor. And anyone who complained was threatened with deportation.
> 
> But perhaps the most stunning aspect of this case is where the victim were being forced to work -- in upscale country clubs around Boca Raton and Miami.  In fact, the Boca Wood Country Club Association is named in a lawsuit on this same case, claiming that they knew the staff being provided to them were slaves.



39 Enslaved Workers Found In South Florida Country Clubs | End Human Trafficking | Change.org

Now should the country club be to blame?  How could they know?


----------



## Bullfighter

blu said:


> IMO it should be 50k an employee, it would stop employers from doing it and it would make the illegals go back home b/c they would have no where to work



What did the French do to people who collaborated with the Nazis during WW2?


----------



## LilOlLady

*VERY SIMPLE. EMFORCE THE LAW.*


The following is an overview of* federal law on hiring* and harboring illegal aliens. It is not a substitute for professional legal counsel in specific situations.

*Summary*
A person (including a group of persons, *business,* organization or local government) commits a *federal felony* when he:

*assists *an alien whom he should *reasonably know is illegally *in the U.S. or who *lacks employment authorization,* by transporting, sheltering, or *assisting him to obtain employment*, 
encourages that alien to remain in the U.S., by *referring him to an employer*, by acting as *employer or agent for an employer *in any way, or 
knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.
Penalties upon conviction include *criminal fines, imprisonment*, and *forfeiture of vehicles *and* real property* used to commit the crime. 

Anyone employing or contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his work authorization status is guilty of a* misdemeanor*. Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to arrest*, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property.* In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.
*
Recruitment and Employment of Illegal Aliens*It is unlawful to *hire an alien*, to recruit an alien, or to refer an alien for a fee, knowing the alien is unauthorized to work in the United States.
1 It is equally unlawful to continue to employ an alien knowing that the alien is unauthorized to work.
2 Employers may give preference in recruitment and hiring to a U.S. citizen over an alien with work authorization only where the U.S. citizen is equally or better qualified.
3 It is unlawful to hire an individual for employment in the United States without complying with employment eligibility verification requirements.4 Requirements include examination of identity documents and completion of Form I-9 for every employee hired. Employers must retain all I-9s, and, with 3 days advance notice, they must be made available for inspection.

Employment includes any service or labor performed for any type of remuneration within the United States, with the exception of sporadic domestic service by an individual in a private home.
5 Day laborers or other casual workers engaged in any compensated activity (with the above exception) are employees for purposes of immigration law.
6 An employer includes an agent or anyone acting directly or indirectly in the interest of the employer. For purposes of verification of authorization to work, employer also means an independent contractor, or a contractor other than the person using the alien labor.
7 The use of temporary or short-term contracts cannot be used to circumvent the employment authorization verification requirements.
8 If employment is to be for less than the usual three days allowed for completing the I-9 Form requirement, the form must be completed immediately at the time of hire
9 An employer has constructive knowledge that an employee is an illegal unauthorized worker if a reasonable person would infer it from the facts.
10 Constructive knowledge constituting a violation of federal law has been found where (1) the I-9 employment eligibility form has not been properly completed, including supporting documentation, (2) the employer has learned from other individuals, media reports, or any source of information available to the employer, that the alien is unauthorized to work, or (3) the employer acts with reckless disregard for the legal consequences of permitting a third party to provide or introduce an illegal alien into the employers work force.
11 Knowledge cannot be inferred solely on the basis of an individuals accent or foreign appearance. Actual specific knowledge is not required. For example, a newspaper article stating that ballrooms depend on an illegal alien workforce of dance hostesses was held by the courts to be a reasonable ground for suspicion that unlawful conduct had occurred.
12 It is illegal for non-profit and religious organizations to knowingly assist an employer to violate employment sanctions, regardless of claims that their convictions require them to assist aliens.
13 Harboring or aiding illegal aliens is not protected by the First Amendment.
14 It is a felony to establish a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of federal immigration law. Violators may be fined or imprisoned for up to 5years.
FAIR: The Law Against Hiring or Harboring Illegal Aliens


----------



## The Infidel

As much as gov't officials like to levy fines and taxes.

How about they actually start fining businesses that hire illegals and pay off the national debt?


----------



## Againsheila

blu said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blu said:
> 
> 
> 
> what is some lowly guy in GE hired an illegal. should the CEO that is a thousand ladders up the chain really be punished? it would a very small chance that the ceo would know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever heard the term "the buck stops here?"  If the CEO didn't know, he should have and he should go to jail for not doing his job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you are either joking or don't know how companies of that size are run
Click to expand...


I am not joking and I don't care the size of the companies.  If an illegal is hired knowingly, then the person who hired him is responsible as are everyone above him in the company all the way up to and including the CEO.  I don't buy the idea that the CEO is blind to everything, if he is, he sure as hell shouldn't be CEO of anything.  You make that CEO responsible, enforce the law and no one will be hiring illegals, not knowingly.


----------



## Againsheila

The Infidel said:


> As much as gov't officials like to levy fines and taxes.
> 
> How about they actually start fining businesses that hire illegals and pay off the national debt?



They do, and businesses like Tyson Foods has discovered it's cheaper to pay the fines than to obey the laws.


----------



## Againsheila

chanel said:


> Agreed Charles.  There are many businesses in our area that hire immigrants, and my gut tells me they all have "papers".  I was talking to someone who was doing payroll temporarily for a construction company and she said she was surprised by the number of dependents many of these folks have.  She speculated that many of them may be illegals, and by exaggerating the number of children they have, they can avoid paying taxes.  That might be a red flag for employers, however it's certainly not their job to investigate the family and count the children.  Sounds like a job for those extra 15,000 IRS agents the prez will hire.
> 
> Did anyone see this story?  These people should go away for life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A South Florida couple is on trial this week for using a temp agency as a front to enslave at least 39 Filipino workers in the service industry. And most of these workers were not slinging hash at backwater diners and rest stops. They were waiting on the rich and famous who frequent the country clubs of Boca Raton and Miami.
> 
> Sophia Manuel and Alfonso Baldonado Jr. ran a temporary staffing agency that promised foreign workers the chance to come work in the U.S. For a fee, Manuel and Baldonado would supposedly provide housing, job placement, and transportation for the workers. But for at least 39 men and women who traveled to the U.S. from the Philippines for jobs, all Manuel and Baldonado provided was slavery.
> 
> Anywhere between 20 and 40 workers shared the cramped, 3-bedroom house, meaning most of them slept on the floor and in the garage. Their meals consisted of chicken innards and rotten vegetables. The workers were frequently woken in the middle of the night and quizzed on service industry knowledge, like drink recipes. During the course of their captivity, one worker broke his wrist and another began coughing up blood. Neither was allowed to see a doctor. And anyone who complained was threatened with deportation.
> 
> But perhaps the most stunning aspect of this case is where the victim were being forced to work -- in upscale country clubs around Boca Raton and Miami.  In fact, the Boca Wood Country Club Association is named in a lawsuit on this same case, claiming that they knew the staff being provided to them were slaves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 39 Enslaved Workers Found In South Florida Country Clubs | End Human Trafficking | Change.org
> 
> Now should the country club be to blame?  How could they know?
Click to expand...


They hired a temp agency instead of hiring their own staff, of course they knew.


----------



## Wolfmoon

I'm no immigrant and I say, everyone is welcome here as, long as, they have an invitation and the proper documentation and correct and *LEGAL* immigration papers.  

Everyone else, gets deported ASAP!  Some of you, stop with your defeatist attitudes and stop your whining and get the job done!  The job is vote out all politicians and never let any politician have more than one term in office.  Vote out all Latino elected officials.  Let's Roll!


----------



## Wolfmoon

blu said:


> IMO it should be 50k an employee, it would stop employers from doing it and it would make the illegals go back home b/c they would have no where to work


 
Confiscate their ill-gotten gains and seize all their personal property for damages and court cost then fine them and jail them. Take their children away and put them foster homes.


----------



## LilOlLady

DREAM ACT; NIGHTMARE FOR AMERICANS



We teach them English, educate them and if they go into our military we are responsible for them for life and they can petition the legalization of their families. If this is not backdoor amnesty, I dont know what is and does nothing for enforcement. That still leaves millions that do not want to go to school and do not want to join our military and do not want to become American citizens, what do you plan to do with them?



Those young men and women who are getting an education should go back home and help their country and their people. Mexico needs their education and need them to join the military and help fight the drug cartels, human and drug smuggling and make a better Mexico for all Mexicans.



Dream Act holds me responsible for children of illegal aliens. Hold the parents responsible. They chose to bring them here and their anchor babies are not anchors.

While border patrol agents are putting their lives on the line day and night chasing illegal aliens, human and drug smuggler and other criminals, trying to stop the flow of guns bought legally in Phoenix and sold illegally sold to drug cartels and drug money from going into Mexico, our government is doing everything to stop them by sending the come message to illegal aliens and encouraging more illegal immigration with the Dream Act and promise of amnesty. And they are telling Arizona, Sheriff Arpiao and ICE to leave them alone and ICE is letting them go back onto the streets as fast as Sheriff Arpiao can arrest and turn them over to ICE.



Hold illegal aliens responsible for all their children and not me. I got enough of my own.If they are allowed to go into our military and they actually go, they are the responsibility of the American taxpayers for life. That means military retirement, medical care, etc.





------------------------------------------------------------------------

PS. The *parents on the bus *when the man went balistic because his disabled child were being bullied and harrassed *could not speak English*. Why were they on the bus and why are they even here.


----------



## LilOlLady

*COLIN POWELL:MEET THE PRESS*

Colin Powell? *They (illegal aliens) are all over my place doing things. *Colin Powell is breaking the law by hiring illegal aliens. He is aiding and abetting illegal immigration and encouraging more illegal immigration and Border Patrols Agents are busting the butts day and night trying to apprehend and stop them putting their lives on the line by getting shot at. *Hiring illegal aliens is a crime and why do these people believe there are above the law?*
How are we going to secure the border if *every 20 years we give 20 million illegal aliens amnesty*? When is the enough already going to begin?
Talking about out of touch with the American people.

*

It is a crime to hire illegal aliens. Why can Powell commit a crime and not be punished?*
*Federal Immigration and Nationality Act
Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii)*
"Any person who . . . encourages or induces an alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."
Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):
A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a* federal felony *when she or he:
* assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or
* encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by *acting as employer* or agent for an employer in any way, or
* knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.
Penalties upon conviction include *criminal fines, imprisonment, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property* used to commit the crime. Anyone *employing *or *contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his or her work authorization status is guilty of a misdemeanor*. Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to* arrest, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property*. In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Libs always said we should punish the employers. Will Holder go after Powell?


----------



## LilOlLady

Charles_Main said:


> blu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever heard the term "the buck stops here?"  If the CEO didn't know, he should have and he should go to jail for not doing his job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you are either joking or don't know how companies of that size are run
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is pretty simple man. Even in the largest cooperation. Everyone has a direct boss, and someone who Hired them. They may or may not be the same person. That person for persons for sure should face some jail time. If they knowingly hired them.
> 
> The problem is some illegals have fake ID, and *stolen or fake SS numbers*. You are going to find the odd one here and there *they honestly did not know they hired an illegal*.
> 
> Take it on a case by case basis. Just like the rest of our court system works. Charge those you can, Don't charge the ones you can't, and yes fine the companies.
Click to expand...


E-Verify can tell them in a matter of minutes but the problem is they are not required to use it.


----------



## LilOlLady

Powell says illegal immigrants do his home repairs

By CALVIN WOODWARD, Associated Press Writer Calvin Woodward, Associated Press Writer &#8211; Sun Sep 19, 2:43 pm ET 

WASHINGTON &#8211; Former Secretary of State Colin Powell says illegal immigrants do essential work in the U.S. and he has firsthand knowledge of that &#8212; because they fix his house.

He added: "They're all over my house, doing things whenever I call for repairs, and I'm sure you've seen them at your house. We've got to find a way to bring these people out of the darkness and give them some kind of status."

Powell did not say whether he's hired illegal immigrants directly or they showed up with contractors.

Powell says illegal immigrants do his home repairs - Yahoo! News

*This is why our immigration system is broken. Our government is broken.
What are we going to do with those who do not go to school or join the military.
School is not a defense matter.*


----------



## LilOlLady

*OVER POPULATION.*

Although people no longer talk about a catastrophic population bomb, world population continues to grow. Unfortunately, the most affected countries are also the ones least able to support more people. 

National Geographic: Eye in the Sky--Overpopulation


*Urban Threat.*

The promise of jobs and prosperity, among other factors, pulls people to cities. Half of the global population already lives in cities, and by 2050 two-thirds of the world's people are expected to live in urban areas. But in cities two of the most pressing problems facing the world today also come together: *poverty and environmental degradation.*
Urbanization, Overpopulation - National Geographic


----------



## LilOlLady

*What Kinds Of Problems Do Illegal Immigrants Cause*

Illegal immigration causes over* population *and as a result there is *shortage of basic amenities *like potable *drinking water, food, energy resources *and *residential land.* Other problems caused by illegal immigration include racial violence, increased crime rate, corruption and promotion of terrorism. Many times it has been seen that security officials exchange sensitive and confidential information in exchange for sex, money or expensive gifts. Many illegal immigrants indulging in securing this type of confidential information are employed by foreign governments. So, illegal immigrants can also pose a risk for national security. Healthcare is also affected by illegal immigration. Diseases like SARS, AIDS, Tuberculosis, Ebola are wide spread across the world because of illegal immigration.

http://www.legalcybertips.com/immigration/Wha...


"California has practically doubled in population in the last 35 years. 96% of its growth in the 1990's was due to immigration. California now has 35 million, and is larger than most countries of the world."    
http://immigration.laws.com/illegal-immigration/illegal-immigration-causes/overpopulation


----------



## LilOlLady

*Illegal Aliens Estimated at 20 to 38 Million *
Contact:
Diana Hull, President
Californians for Population Stabilization
(805) 564-6626
info@capsweb.org 
Report by CAPS Disputes Government Figures
WASHINGTON, DCHomeland Security's August 31 report that 8 to 12 million illegal aliens reside in the United States grossly underestimates the number of illegal foreigners, according to a new study by the Californians for Population Stabilization (CAPS) released on Wednesday, October 3.
CAPS - Illegal Aliens Estimated at 20 to 38 Million


----------



## LilOlLady

*La Raza: Deporting 12 Million Illegal Aliens Not a Realistic Solution and U.S. Should Stop Trying*

Deporting 12 million people is not a realistic solution, she [NCLR Immigration Field Coordinator A. Elena Lacayo] wrote [in response to a question from CNS]. Its time we create a rational immigration system, take these people out of the shadows and restore the rule of law.
American Renaissance News: La Raza: Deporting 12 Million Illegal Aliens 'Not a Realistic Solution' and U.S. Should Stop Trying

*See comments;
If we cut off incentives like promise of amnesty and all freebies, jobs and automatic birthright citizenship they will self deport. They are doing it already because SB1070 and the economy.
*


----------



## LilOlLady

*OBAMA AND REID; DESTROYING MEXICO*.
Colin Powell;* You break, you own it.*

I am a diehard democrat but I am going to be voting straight Republican, even Sharron Angle gets my vote. *I'd rather give my country to Tea Baggers than the illegal aliens and Mexico.*

What happens to Mexico when we take their people, we become* responsible for the people and for Mexico*. We are fighting Mexico's war because of greed for cheap labor and votes and they have *no people to fight with them*. We are sending millions to Mexico, illegal are sending billions earned here back to Mexico's economy and now *we are responsible for Mexico and it's people. *What the hell come next.? Reid and Obama will go back to their cushy homes, but if *it affects the American people it will soon affect them*. You people are creating a nightmare for American with the Dream Act and promise of Amnesty. (Path to citizenship)

Democrats is destroying México by taking its people with the Dream Act, promise of Amnesty.


----------



## LilOlLady

*U.S. Military Will Offer Path to Citizenship *


*The military does not allow illegal immigrants to enlist*, and that policy would not change, officers said. Recruiting officials pointed out that volunteers with temporary visas would have already passed a security screening and would have shown that they had no criminal record. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/us/15immig.html

*Reids Dream Act goes a bit further than this and opens the back door to amnesty for parents. Once you got the children, parents are a piece of cake. Beats trying to pass a Immigration Reform bill.*

 The bill would allow young illegal immigrants to become citizens if they have completed a university or college education or served two years in the military.
Barack Obama promised during this presidential run that he would introduce legislation to provide the estimated 12 to 20 million illegal immigrants, most of them Latinos, with a route to citizenship but has so far failed to deliver. This measure, even if the chances of passage appear at this stage to be slim, would go part way towards achieving that.

Dream Act immigration reform bill to be put to US Congress this week | World news | The Guardian


----------



## Big Black Dog

This will be the biggest mistake the United States of America will ever make in it's history.  Very bad move.


----------



## uscitizen

Yeah likley to be worse than Reagans Amnesty.


----------



## Madeline

Didn't this bill just fail in the Senate?


----------



## SFC Ollie

Madeline said:


> Didn't this bill just fail in the Senate?



I hope so.


Round em up, head em out..................


----------



## LilOlLady

*Mexicos Rich Dont Like To Pay Taxes  
They Think You Should*
By Brenda Walker

On July 10, the Senate passed a bill to provide $100 million in microloans for the poorest regions of Mexico. It's stunning that Congress would vote to provide financial aid to wealthy Mexico when 47 U.S. states have severe budget deficits and federal red ink is the highest ever. 

Half of all Latin American billionaires, 11 out of 22, are Mexicans.
Furthermore, every social service for illegal aliens and legal immigrants financed by the American taxpayermedical care, K-12 education, college tuition breaks, housing vouchers and food stampsfrees up more money for remittances. 

Recent surveys show half of Latino immigrants send money home, with a monthly average amount of $250. 


09/12/03 - Mexicos Rich Dont Like To Pay Taxes  They Think You Should, by Brenda Walker


----------



## uscitizen

Most rich do not like to pay taxes or sue their own money when they can con someone else into using theirs.


----------



## LilOlLady

*The Education System in Mexico*

The Secretaría de Educación Pública (SEP) is the governing body of Mexico in charge of all educational standards and rules. In 2004, the national government allotted almost* $46 billion to education.* Spanish is the primary language
 used in most public and private schools. *By 2004, Mexicos literacy rate is 91%.*
 The National Polytechnic Institute (IPN) is the second largest public university in Mexico. The Monterreys Technological and Higher Education Institute (ITESM) is on the other hand considered to be one of the best private universities in Mexico. The Wall Street Journal declared it as the *7th top International Business School in the world. *
The Education System in Mexico


----------



## LilOlLady

*Why Are One Million Americans Moving to Mexico?*

*A Low Cost of Living in Mexico Stretches Your Retirement Dollars*

Posted on September 2, 2010 by Glynna Prentice

If youre looking to stretch your retirement dollars, check out Mexico. The lower cost of living in Mexico means your money goes further there.


*Assisted Living in MexicoSlash Your Costs, Improve Your Care* 
Posted on June 1, 2010 by Glynna Prentice

These days, one of your biggest health expenses will likely come late in life: long-term or assisted-living care in your twilight years.


*91 in Mexico: Youre Never Too Old to Live Your Dream* 
Posted on June 1, 2010 by James Tipton

At the age of 88, after more than 45 years living in Southern California, Tom Stephenson packed up and moved to Lake Chapala, Mexico, *to begin a new life.*
Mexico &#8211; International Living


----------



## LilOlLady

*Illegal Immigrants Returning To Mexico For American Jobs*May 3, 2006 | ISSUE 4218 


 02.03.99 MEXICO CITYAs *dozens of major American corporations continue to move their manufacturing operations to Mexico, *waves of job-seeking Mexican immigrants to the United States have begun making the deadly journey back across the border in search of *better-paying Mexican-based American jobs*.

"I came to this country seeking the job I sought when I first left this country," said Anuncio Reyes, 22, an undocumented worker who recrossed the U.S. border into Mexico last month, three years after leaving Mexico for the United States to work as an agricultural day laborer. *"I spent everything I had to get back here. *Yes, it was dangerous, and I miss my home. But as much as I love America, *I have to go where the best American jobs are."*
Illegal Immigrants Returning To Mexico For American Jobs | The Onion - America's Finest News Source


----------



## LilOlLady

What did I just do? I posted in reply. My bad. I am tired and I am going to bed.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Mexico Medical Student: 
An American Gets an Education South of the Border* 
by Elizabeth Titus 
July 19, 2010 

Armando Martinez did not fear the violence that has engulfed his hometown, Juárez. Like thousands of young people from the border region, he moved to avoid getting sucked into the same life he'd always known. *He wanted more, better*.

*With a full-ride scholarship*, he set his sights on the state capital to escape a border-town mentality," he says. Now, as a fifth-year advertising major leading the Mexican Student Association, Martinez knows many of his fellow *border region transplants *in Austin. "Once we've taken a step," he says, "we've liked it."

*Annually, we're losing thousands of kids to places like Austin, *he says. Villescas is concerned about *who will keep the lights on in his hometown in the future.*
Fewer Mexican Students Attending Border Universities &mdash; Texas-Mexico Border | The Texas Tribune


----------



## LilOlLady

*Dirty Jobs Americans Supposedly Won't Do*
From Ted Twietmeyer
tedtw@frontiernet.net 
7-12-6

And the next time someone feeds you a whining line of BS about *"Oh, we need those illegal aliens to do the jobs Americans won't do?" *Tell them about some of these jobs. Note that these *jobs on the show are being performed by Americans *- NOT illegal aliens. When watching that show one must ask the question - *"Would an illegal alien do it, and do it fast enough not to get fired?*" 

So to all those AMERICANS out there that "*do the jobs that make modern life possible*" as Mike says, *you have my eternal respect! *
For short videos of these jobs, see http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/dirtyjobs/splash.html


----------



## LilOlLady

* FARM WORKER DO NOT TAKE JOBS FROM AMERICANS*

And those are not the jobs we Americans are complaining about. We are complaining about the constructions jobs and millions of other jobs that 98% of illegal aliens are doing in the urban and inner cities across American. There are 20 million illegal aliens in this country and less than 2% work on farms. What are the other 98% doing in this country? Let illegal aliens farm workers  keep their farming jobs on a temporary workers program. The majority of American live and work in the inner cities and their children go to school in the inner cities.  American who live in farming cities do work in the farming industry.  

If you put those illegal alien farm worker on a path to citizenship, you put them on a path out of  the farmers field and on a path into the inner cities taking jobs away from American workers. Most illegal aliens by-pass the farmers fields and go straight into the inner cities, drop a jackpot baby and collect the benefits and on the path to the American dream. 

If the farmers need workers, make a sweep of the inner cities and see how many illegal aliens will take jobs on the farms?  None. Illegal aliens dont want to do jobs American dont want to do either.  We dont need immigration reform, we need enforcement and a real temporary worker program to supply farmers with sufficient workers so our lettuce will not go to $3.00 a head.

If farmers want workers, let them have workers. Legal temporary workers.
The reason farmers do not have adequate supply of workers is because they work a season, save their money and go on into the inner cities.

Amnesty via Immigration Reform or the Dream Act will never solve our immigration problem. Enforcement will with controlled and limited immigration.

Stop the incentives, jobs, free healthcare, automatic birthright citizenship with all the benefits thereof and social services freebies and they will leave and they will not come.

Enforcement do not separate families.  Thats a lame excuse advocates of illegal alien cheap labor and votes use and the pig dont fly. Illegal aliens brought children with them when they came across the border and they can take them back with their American born siblings.

Mexico is not a third world country with disease ridden, starving children with jobless parents. They quit jobs in Mexico to come here and some pay thousands to smugglers  because of free healthcare,  automatic birthright citizenship and more, not a better life.  Greed bring illegal aliens into this country and not necessity.

Mexico has the 10th largest economy in the world. There are more billionaires in Mexico than in Switzerland and is fully capable of providing education, healthcare and jobs for its people.

It's the illegals from Mexico who are the first to claim that Mexico is so bad they can't live in it, being deported back to their homeland is worse than what the Nazis did to the Jews when they sent them to gas chambers. Just not true or they would not be moving back by the millions.


----------



## LilOlLady

*HISPANIC FAMILY VALUES? DEPENDS ON WHAT THE MEANING OF "FAMILY" IS. *


By Heather Mac Donald · November 15, 2006 06:26 PM 
Open-border conservatives love to tout the myth of the redemptive Hispanic, whose strong family values will allegedly* return America to its traditional roots*. Don't buy it: *No ethnic group in the U.S. is producing out-of-wedlock children at a higher rate than Hispanics*.
The Immigration Blog


----------



## syrenn

Do you ever talk or post about anything else? Are you sure you are not TM?


----------



## LilOlLady

Obamas Illegal Alien Aunt says U.S. *"obligated to grant citizenship*" to her.



*Public Housing *and *collects $700 a month in disability*... even though *she was illegal*, she came here illegally in 2000, was *'disabled'* more than two years ago and was *only granted asylum last year*... she* never legally worked in this country *and yet she is in *public housing and collects disability money from the government.*

Obamas Illegal Alien Aunt says U.S. "obligated to grant citizenship" to her.


This is so typical of our *broken government*. Thousands of illegal aliens are in public housing and collecting disability checks and welfare checks for their jackpot babies.
and don't forget the free healthcare and food stamps she probably gets.


----------



## Charles_Main

LilOlLady said:


> Obamas Illegal Alien Aunt says U.S. *"obligated to grant citizenship*" to her.
> 
> 
> 
> *Public Housing *and *collects $700 a month in disability*... even though *she was illegal*, she came here illegally in 2000, was *'disabled'* more than two years ago and was *only granted asylum last year*... she* never legally worked in this country *and yet she is in *public housing and collects disability money from the government.*
> 
> Obamas Illegal Alien Aunt says U.S. "obligated to grant citizenship" to her.
> 
> 
> This is so typical of our *broken government*. Thousands of illegal aliens are in public housing and collecting disability checks and welfare checks for their jackpot babies.



old news. already a long thread on this.

Be sure not to say she should be sent back to Kenya. (where she is from) or you will be called a racists by reactionary Liberal assholes


----------



## LilOlLady

*Thousands of illegal immigrants live in public housing*
By ELLIOT SPAGAT 
Associated Press
Jan. 1, 2009, 10:
Untold thousands of illegal immigrants live in public housing at a time when hundreds of thousands of citizens and legal residents are stuck waiting years for a spot.
Illegal immigrants make up a tiny portion of the 7.1 million people in federal housing, according to government statistics. But authorities may be unaware of thousands more, and critics say no illegal immigrant should get housing benefits.
Thousands of illegal immigrants live in public housing | National | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle
*
One more incentive for illegal immigration.*


*County&#8217;s Monthly Welfare Tab For Illegal Aliens $52 Million *

Those figures don&#8217;t even include the extra millions that local municipalities dish out on welfare payments to the U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants, commonly known as anchor babies. In Los Angeles County alone that figure increased by nearly $4 million in the last year, sticking taxpayers with a whopping $52 million tab to provide illegal immigrants&#8217; offspring with food stamps and other welfare benefits for just one month
 Nationwide, Americans pay around $22 billion annually to provide illegal immigrants with welfare perks that include food assistance programs such as free school lunches in public schools, food stamps and a nutritional program (known as WIC) for low-income women and their children

County?s Monthly Welfare Tab For Illegal Aliens $52 Million | Judicial Watch

*One more incentive for illegal immigration.*


----------



## LilOlLady

Charles_Main said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obamas Illegal Alien Aunt says U.S. *"obligated to grant citizenship*" to her.
> 
> 
> 
> *Public Housing *and *collects $700 a month in disability*... even though *she was illegal*, she came here illegally in 2000, was *'disabled'* more than two years ago and was *only granted asylum last year*... she* never legally worked in this country *and yet she is in *public housing and collects disability money from the government.*
> 
> Obamas Illegal Alien Aunt says U.S. "obligated to grant citizenship" to her.
> 
> 
> This is so typical of our *broken government*. Thousands of illegal aliens are in public housing and collecting disability checks and welfare checks for their jackpot babies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *old news. already a long thread on this.*
> 
> Be sure not to say she should be sent back to Kenya. (where she is from) or you will be called a racists by reactionary Liberal assholes
Click to expand...


May be an old thread, but new people are arriving daily and may not know the updates.


----------



## California Girl

LilOlLady said:


> *Thousands of illegal immigrants live in public housing*
> By ELLIOT SPAGAT
> Associated Press
> Jan. 1, 2009, 10:
> Untold thousands of illegal immigrants live in public housing at a time when hundreds of thousands of citizens and legal residents are stuck waiting years for a spot.
> Illegal immigrants make up a tiny portion of the 7.1 million people in federal housing, according to government statistics. But authorities may be unaware of thousands more, and critics say no illegal immigrant should get housing benefits.
> Thousands of illegal immigrants live in public housing | National | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle
> *
> One more incentive for illegal immigration.*
> 
> 
> *Countys Monthly Welfare Tab For Illegal Aliens $52 Million *
> 
> Those figures dont even include the extra millions that local municipalities dish out on welfare payments to the U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants, commonly known as anchor babies. In Los Angeles County alone that figure increased by nearly $4 million in the last year, sticking taxpayers with a whopping $52 million tab to provide illegal immigrants offspring with food stamps and other welfare benefits for just one month
> Nationwide, Americans pay around $22 billion annually to provide illegal immigrants with welfare perks that include food assistance programs such as free school lunches in public schools, food stamps and a nutritional program (known as WIC) for low-income women and their children
> 
> County?s Monthly Welfare Tab For Illegal Aliens $52 Million | Judicial Watch
> 
> *One more incentive for illegal immigration.*



Which bit of 'there's already a thread on this' is above your intellectual pay grade?


----------



## LilOlLady

*September 24, 2010*


*Obama's aunt says US obligated to make her citizen*
By Associated Press , 

BOSTON (AP) &#8212; President Barack Obama's aunt, who lived for years illegally in Boston before being granted asylum in May, said the United States has an "obligation" to grant her citizenship.
Obama's aunt says US obligated to make her citizen


Tell Associated Press this is old news. The point I am making is pubic housing and welfare benefits for illegal aliens. Nothing to do per se about Obama's aunt.


----------



## LilOlLady

Illegal Aliens Get Millions In Monthly Welfare Checks | Judicial Watch

old news but got to keep reminding americans why we oppose illegal immigration. Some like  you have a short memory.


----------



## LilOlLady

Illegal Aliens Get Millions In Monthly Welfare Checks | Judicial Watch

old news but got to keep reminding American why we oppose illegal immigration. Some people like  you have a short attention span.


----------



## SFC Ollie

LilOlLady said:


> *HISPANIC FAMILY VALUES? DEPENDS ON WHAT THE MEANING OF "FAMILY" IS. *
> 
> 
> By Heather Mac Donald · November 15, 2006 06:26 PM
> Open-border conservatives love to tout the myth of the redemptive Hispanic, whose strong family values will allegedly* return America to its traditional roots*. Don't buy it: *No ethnic group in the U.S. is producing out-of-wedlock children at a higher rate than Hispanics*.
> The Immigration Blog



You truly need to back the fuck off on Hispanics in general. I don't like illegals anymore than you do, However my wife is of Mexican decent ( her family was in Texas when Texas won it's independence from Mexico) and I have several nieces and nephews who are half Puerto Rican. All of them are as American as you are. You get the idea? Also, remember that not all illegals are Hispanic.


----------



## LilOlLady

What part of illegal immigration do you not understand, california girl*? Everything* we are discussing is old news. Does that mean we should not discuss it? Illegal immigration is old news.


----------



## LilOlLady

Where village statesmen talk'd with looks profound. And news much older than their ale went round. 
Author: Oliver Goldsmith

*Master, master, old news! And such news as you never heard of*! 
Author: William Shakespeare


----------



## Flopper

*She is a legal resident of US.  Now let's see.  Obama's cousin twice removed......*


----------



## LilOlLady

Some people have slow internet connection so old new is new news?


----------



## MaggieMae

LilOlLady said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obamas Illegal Alien Aunt says U.S. *"obligated to grant citizenship*" to her.
> 
> 
> 
> *Public Housing *and *collects $700 a month in disability*... even though *she was illegal*, she came here illegally in 2000, was *'disabled'* more than two years ago and was *only granted asylum last year*... she* never legally worked in this country *and yet she is in *public housing and collects disability money from the government.*
> 
> Obamas Illegal Alien Aunt says U.S. "obligated to grant citizenship" to her.
> 
> 
> This is so typical of our *broken government*. Thousands of illegal aliens are in public housing and collecting disability checks and welfare checks for their jackpot babies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *old news. already a long thread on this.*
> 
> Be sure not to say she should be sent back to Kenya. (where she is from) or you will be called a racists by reactionary Liberal assholes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> May be an old thread, but new people are arriving daily and may not know the updates.
Click to expand...


Yawn...when a working immigration program is put forth and begins a serious debate, I'll start paying attention. In the meantime, there isn't a single thing anyone can say, pro or con, that hasn't already been said a gazillion times before.


----------



## MaggieMae

LilOlLady said:


> Where village statesmen talk'd with looks profound. And news much older than their ale went round.
> Author: Oliver Goldsmith
> 
> *Master, master, old news! And such news as you never heard of*!
> Author: William Shakespeare



Jeezus. Can you say SPAM???


----------



## MaggieMae

Holy crap. Somebody's found a chewed up old bone and is still gnawing on it hoping to find a morsel of meat. Take a nap, Lady, and give it a rest.


----------



## LilOlLady

MaggieMae said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> 
> *old news. already a long thread on this.*
> 
> Be sure not to say she should be sent back to Kenya. (where she is from) or you will be called a racists by reactionary Liberal assholes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> May be an old thread, but new people are arriving daily and may not know the updates.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yawn...when a working immigration program is put forth and begins a serious debate, *I'll start paying attention*. In the meantime, there isn't a single thing anyone can say, pro or con, that hasn't already been said a gazillion times before.
Click to expand...


*You are here,* maggie mae, and that means you ARE listening to old news and paying attention. In the meantime we keep* talking* and we keep *listening*.


----------



## LilOlLady

Right now we are not talking about anything but wasting each others time. I have been talking about illegal immigraiton for the past 50 years and I keep talking and you keep listening. LMFAO


----------



## MaggieMae

Here's a bumper sticker for you, lOl:


----------



## LilOlLady

SFC Ollie said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *HISPANIC FAMILY VALUES? DEPENDS ON WHAT THE MEANING OF "FAMILY" IS. *
> 
> 
> By Heather Mac Donald · November 15, 2006 06:26 PM
> Open-border conservatives love to tout the myth of the redemptive Hispanic, whose strong family values will allegedly* return America to its traditional roots*. Don't buy it: *No ethnic group in the U.S. is producing out-of-wedlock children at a higher rate than Hispanics*.
> The Immigration Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You truly need to back the fuck off on Hispanics in general. I don't like illegals anymore than you do, However my wife is of Mexican decent ( her family was in Texas when Texas won it's independence from Mexico) and I have several nieces and nephews who are half Puerto Rican. All of them are as American as you are. You get the idea? Also, remember that not all illegals are Hispanic.
Click to expand...



I will back the fuck off when all illegal aliens are gone back home and the majority of illegal aliens are HISPANIC.
I got the message and I too have Mexicans in my family and it is not Mexicans that I don't like, it's illegal aliens.  Did you get that message?


----------



## LilOlLady

MaggieMae said:


> Holy crap. Somebody's found a chewed up old bone and is still gnawing on it hoping to find a morsel of meat. Take a nap, Lady, and give it a rest.



Illegal immigraton might be an old bone but it still got a morsel of meat on it and I will keep chewing on it until it's all gone.
I don't sleep on the job and this is my job and I do it well. Sound like I am doing it too well.


----------



## LilOlLady

syrenn said:


> Do you ever talk or post about anything else? Are you sure you are not TM?



This is the Immigration message board, isn't it?


----------



## LilOlLady

Freedom TV said:


> Get some rest, LiLoLlady, you've earned it.




I get plenty of rest and I will rest my case against illegal aliens when there are no more. It my job and it seem I am doing it well.


----------



## LilOlLady

I will go away when my job is done but i still have lots of work to do yet.  Don't like it, don't read it.


----------



## LilOlLady

MaggieMae said:


> Here's a bumper sticker for you, lOl:



Grow up, maggie:


----------



## jillian

LilOlLady said:


> Right now we are not talking about anything but wasting each others time. I have been talking about illegal immigraiton for the past 50 years and I keep talking and you keep listening. LMFAO



they're not 'listening'. they're making fun of you.


----------



## Bullfighter

jillian said:


> [
> they're not 'listening'. they're making fun of you.



Is that the only emoticon you know how to use?



You suck worse this week than you did last week!


----------



## LilOlLady

Study: *Americans not losing jobs to illegals*
Associated Press Posted September 27, 2010 at 10:30 p.m.

VISALIA, Calif.  Its a question rekindled by the recession: Are immigrants taking jobs away from American citizens? In the heart of the nations biggest farming state, the answer is a resounding no.
Government data analyzed by The Associated Press show *most Americans dont apply to harvest fruits and vegetables.* And the few Americans who do usually dont stay in the fields.
Study: Americans not losing jobs to illegals  Abilene Reporter-News

Is the a Colbert joke? Maybe in Visalia Calif,.  but 30 million illegal aliens and 500,000 anchor babies are not picking lettuce, apple or tomatoes. They don't pick lettuce, apples and tomatoes, beans and corn in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago, New York, etc. 
Less than 2% of 20 million illegals work on farms. What are the other 98% doing in this country?


----------



## Terral

Hi Lady:



LilOlLady said:


> Study: *Americans not losing jobs to illegals*
> Associated Press Posted September 27, 2010 at 10:30 p.m.
> 
> VISALIA, Calif.  Its a question rekindled by the recession: Are immigrants taking jobs away from American citizens? In the heart of the nations biggest farming state, the answer is a resounding no.
> Government data analyzed by The Associated Press show *most Americans dont apply to harvest fruits and vegetables.* And the few Americans who do usually dont stay in the fields.
> Study: Americans not losing jobs to illegals  Abilene Reporter-News
> 
> Is the a Colbert joke? ...



No. This is typical Open Border Lobby Disinformation Propaganda deposited on the foolish American Public like cow dung out in the field. I have worked with hundreds of Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals here in Florida and none of them ever picked any fruit. They start off as laborers for masons, carpenters, dry-wallers, stucco workers throughout all the trades where people work with their hands. Illegal Aliens displace common laborers at the bottom of the socioeconomic pyramid, until eventually they are trained to use the tools of the trade. Then the masons and carpenters are displaced from their jobs, after training the Illegal Aliens over the course of time. 

The unscrupulous company owners get rid of their expensive American workers to replace them with cheap Illegal Aliens to increase their bottom line. One white guy hires fifty Illegal Aliens and lowers his prices to 'below cost,' until eventually he drives legitimate companies out of work and out of business. The fact is that most trade workers are displaced by Illegal Aliens without ever seeing them, because other companies hiring them simply lower the prices far below their company's ability to compete. 

The same goes for carpentry companies and dry-wall companies and every construction outfit that must eventually replace their American Workers with Illegal Aliens in order to compete in an environment where the politicians are corrupt and everyone is looking the other way with a wink and a nod.

The US Economy can never recover, so long as we have 20 to 30 Million Illegal Aliens serving as a Cheap Illegal Labor Pool. That one white guy will continue using more than his fair share of Illegal Aliens, until someone starts 'enforcing' our perfectly good Immigration, Employment and Document Fraud Laws already on the books.

GL,

Terral


----------



## LilOlLady

*Sale benefits unemployed illegal immigrants*
American Apparel sells clothes at up to 85% off, with proceeds going to help the *1,600 *employees recently let go after federal inspections found problems with their immigration documentation.

December 20, 2009|By Patrick J. McDonnell
It was a holiday sale for a singular group of beneficiaries -- illegal immigrants who had been thrown out of work.

Sale benefits unemployed illegal immigrants - Los Angeles Times

Anyone kno how many unemployed illegals there are?


----------



## LilOlLady

There are not many post on this site that have not been posted many times, so if you are bored, C;est la vie!
I never let opinion, opposition and insults stop me. I've been doing this way too long and all of you are a piece of cake compared...............


----------



## LilOlLady

*Legal, illegal immigrants face high unemployment rates*


The *high unemployment figures among immigrants *also debunk the arguments for granting amnesty to millions of illegal aliens, Camarota adds.

"The available evidence suggests that now unemployment for illegal immigrants is probably over ten percent; it's probably closer to *fifteen percent," *he suggests. "So the idea that we are desperately *short of unskilled workers *just simply doesn't make sense anymore."
Legal, illegal immigrants face high unemployment rates (OneNewsNow.com)

How are these 15% living? Of their anchor babies benefits. Welfare, food stamps, healthcare and public housing?


----------



## ABikerSailor

Lil Ol Lady and Bullfighter.........

A match made in racist hell.


----------



## Bullfighter

ABikerSailor said:


> Lil Ol Lady and Bullfighter.........
> 
> A match made in racist hell.



Shouldn't you be in your sailor suit guarding the Pacific just in case the Mexicans try to use it to sneak into the US?

HA! HA! HA! 

Go take a shower with your buddies and leave the important stuff to grown-ups!


----------



## LilOlLady

*ENGLISH A REQUIREMENT.*
People should not be allowed in this country if they cannot at least speak English. 
It should be a requirement for anchor babies to enter school and would save the tax payers and state millions to teach them English after they enter school.
No one who cannot speak, read and write English should be put on a path to citizenship.


----------



## LilOlLady

* 
 Should we teach ESL students or not?*
An absence of TESOL education classes would have severe detrimental effects on the quality of education provided to the children of Nevada. Our state has reached a pivotal point. Today we have the highest increase of English language learners in the nation. In 2007-2008, nearly 18% of Washoe County School District students took English language learning classes, and in 2009 Limited English Proficient students in Washoe County graduated at a rate of only 16%. It would seem obvious that TESOL teacher education courses will remain essential to the professional preparation of all K-12 educators and become increasingly so into the future. 
Any lack of trained TESOL educators would have a profound effect on the already undereducated workforce of Nevada. An increase in high school dropouts in Reno will lead to more people living in poverty, increased health care costs, increased crime (80% of prisoners in America are high school dropouts), and declining revenues for the state. Studies put the average cost to taxpayers, including incarceration costs, over the working life of each high school dropout at $292,000.

All Ages : Discussions : Should we teach ESL students or not? (Need your opinions) -- Mom to Mom Forums Reno MomsLikeMe.com


----------



## LilOlLady

CARSON CITY -- Teaching children with limited English skills *costs the state $722 million a year*, *takes instruction time from other students *and *contributes to Nevada's bottom ranking on student achievement on tests*, according to a study by a *national anti-illegal immigration group*.

http://www.lvrj.com/news/limited-englis ... 79594.html


----------



## LilOlLady

Wanting our *immigraiton laws enforced*,* contolled and limited immigration *is *not racist*. Its *patriotism and love of your country*.


*"If you don't like something, change it. If you can't change it, change your attitude."*


----------



## zzzz

LilOlLady said:


> *ENGLISH A REQUIREMENT.*
> People should not be allowed in this country if they cannot at least speak English.
> It should be a requirement for anchor babies to enter school and would save the tax payers and state millions to teach them English after they enter school.
> No one who cannot speak, read and write English should be put on a path to citizenship.



All applicants should be able to read and speak *American *not English. We need to to start speaking and labeling our language right. *It is American not English*. English is the that weird language being spoken over the pond on that little isolated speck of land across from France.


----------



## LilOlLady

ABikerSailor said:


> Lil Ol Lady and Bullfighter.........
> 
> A match made in racist hell.



What is a racist?

"Any concept of one person being *superior* to another can lead to racism." 
Walter Lang 

I want *all our laws enforced *does that make me a* racist toward everyone?*
*Calling me a racist does not make me a racist, it just gives you an excuse to break the law.*
There is a difference in hating Hispanics and hating illegal immigration. 

Get the fuque over yourself, sonny boy. I don't feel your pain.


----------



## LilOlLady

jillian said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right now we are not talking about anything but wasting each others time. I have been talking about illegal immigraiton for the past 50 years and I keep talking and you keep listening. LMFAO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they're not 'listening'. *they're making fun of you*.
Click to expand...


And tell me, why should that bother me? Those making fun of me is like a flea with a bat.


----------



## LilOlLady

zzzz said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *ENGLISH A REQUIREMENT.*
> People should not be allowed in this country if they cannot at least speak English.
> It should be a requirement for anchor babies to enter school and would save the tax payers and state millions to teach them English after they enter school.
> No one who cannot speak, read and write English should be put on a path to citizenship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All applicants should be able to read and speak *American *not English. We need to to start speaking and labeling our language right. *It is American not English*. English is the that weird language being spoken over the pond on that little isolated speck of land across from France.
Click to expand...


Why is is called* ESL*?  American is not a language. *American English*, a *derivative of old English *is according to what someone told you it is and made you a believer. Drop the sarcacism.


----------



## zzzz

LilOlLady said:


> zzzz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *ENGLISH A REQUIREMENT.*
> People should not be allowed in this country if they cannot at least speak English.
> It should be a requirement for anchor babies to enter school and would save the tax payers and state millions to teach them English after they enter school.
> No one who cannot speak, read and write English should be put on a path to citizenship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All applicants should be able to read and speak *American *not English. We need to to start speaking and labeling our language right. *It is American not English*. English is the that weird language being spoken over the pond on that little isolated speck of land across from France.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why is is called* ESL*?  American is not a language. *American English*, a *derivative of old English *is according to what someone told you it is and made you a believer. Drop the sarcacism.
Click to expand...


And Spanish is derived from an earlier form of Italian. Why do we persist in keeping the shackles of European colonialism alive today in our classification of languages? The American language is a living language, growing everyday with new words and meaning and the assimulation of other languages. Old English or what is spoken in England is a dying language and soon will be like Latin a dead language. It is time to change the name from English to American.


----------



## Father Time

LilOlLady said:


> *ENGLISH A REQUIREMENT.*
> People should not be allowed in this country if they cannot at least speak English.



Violates the first amendment. Next!


----------



## ABikerSailor

Bullfighter said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lil Ol Lady and Bullfighter.........
> 
> A match made in racist hell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shouldn't you be in your sailor suit guarding the Pacific just in case the Mexicans try to use it to sneak into the US?
> 
> HA! HA! HA!
> 
> Go take a shower with your buddies and leave the important stuff to grown-ups!
Click to expand...


Hey stupid, go check a map..........if Mexicans were going to sneak into this country, they wouldn't come from the Pacific as much as they would come via the Gulf of Mexico and the Atlantic.

You really are a window licker on the short bus minus a helmet, ain't ya?


----------



## Bullfighter

ABikerSailor said:


> [
> Hey stupid, go check a map..........if Mexicans were going to sneak into this country, they wouldn't come from the Pacific as much as they would come via the Gulf of Mexico and the Atlantic.
> 
> You really are a window licker on the short bus minus a helmet, ain't ya?


 
Did you ever think those Mexicans could sneak attack San Diego which is on the Pacific side? Forget the map those Mexicans gave you. They can't even find their way out of a dessert when all they have to do is go North!!

Why not change your name to match your favorite activity: Ben Dover! HA! HA! HA!


----------



## SFC Ollie

Father Time said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *ENGLISH A REQUIREMENT.*
> People should not be allowed in this country if they cannot at least speak English.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Violates the first amendment. Next!
Click to expand...


?????????????????


----------



## ABikerSailor

Bullfighter said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> Hey stupid, go check a map..........if Mexicans were going to sneak into this country, they wouldn't come from the Pacific as much as they would come via the Gulf of Mexico and the Atlantic.
> 
> You really are a window licker on the short bus minus a helmet, ain't ya?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you ever think those Mexicans could sneak attack San Diego which is on the Pacific side? Forget the map those Mexicans gave you. They can't even find their way out of a dessert when all they have to do is go North!!
> 
> Why not change your name to match your favorite activity: Ben Dover! HA! HA! HA!
Click to expand...


Hey stupid.......ever stop to think that one of the largest concentrations of MILITARY PEOPLE is IN San Diego?

Like I said, you've got 2 brain cells.....one is lost and the other is sitting down, crying in the corner.

What are you.....12?


----------



## Bullfighter

ABikerSailor said:


> [Hey stupid.......ever stop to think that one of the largest concentrations of MILITARY PEOPLE is IN San Diego?
> 
> Like I said, you've got 2 brain cells.....one is lost and the other is sitting down, crying in the corner.
> 
> What are you.....12?


 
Really? How many Mexicans have the Military Police stopped invading California? HA! HA! HA! California has the most Mexican invaders in the US. What an example. Did the remove your brain as well as your anal sphincter in the Navy?


----------



## LilOlLady

zzzz said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zzzz said:
> 
> 
> 
> All applicants should be able to read and speak *American *not English. We need to to start speaking and labeling our language right. *It is American not English*. English is the that weird language being spoken over the pond on that little isolated speck of land across from France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is is called* ESL*?  American is not a language. *American English*, a *derivative of old English *is according to what someone told you it is and made you a believer. Drop the sarcacism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Spanish is derived from an earlier form of Italian. Why do we persist in keeping the *shackles of European colonialism alive *today in our classification of languages? The American language is a living language, growing everyday with new words and meaning and the assimulation of other languages.* Old English or what is spoken in England *is a dying language and soon will be like Latin a dead language. It is time to change the name from *English to American*.
Click to expand...



Fact is many languages are spoken by Americans and some speak English, not American.
Who the hell are you to make such assumption? Old English is NOT spaken in England. Haven't for centuries. Latin will never be a dead language. English will always be spoken in America.


----------



## LilOlLady

zzzzzzzzz alert!!!!
*English Speaking Countries*
*Countries Where English is Spoken* (Not American) English will NEVER be called American.
By Matt Rosenberg, About.com Guide

English Speaking Countries - A List of English Speaking Countries



.


----------



## zzzz

LilOlLady said:


> zzzzzzzzz alert!!!!
> *English Speaking Countries*
> *Countries Where English is Spoken* (Not American) English will NEVER be called American.
> By Matt Rosenberg, About.com Guide
> 
> English Speaking Countries - A List of English Speaking Countries
> 
> 
> 
> .



Ahhh. Have you not learned that the word "never" should not be spoken. With the increase of nationalism in the US do you not think that eventually Congress will pass a resolution or law changing the name of our language to American? You do not think this is possible?


----------



## SFC Ollie

Bullfighter said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> [Hey stupid.......ever stop to think that one of the largest concentrations of MILITARY PEOPLE is IN San Diego?
> 
> Like I said, you've got 2 brain cells.....one is lost and the other is sitting down, crying in the corner.
> 
> What are you.....12?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really? How many Mexicans have the Military Police stopped invading California? HA! HA! HA! California has the most Mexican invaders in the US. What an example. Did the remove your brain as well as your anal sphincter in the Navy?
Click to expand...


That's a possibility, I'm still wondering how the Mexican illegals come in from the Atlantic.


----------



## zzzz

SFC Ollie said:


> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> [Hey stupid.......ever stop to think that one of the largest concentrations of MILITARY PEOPLE is IN San Diego?
> 
> Like I said, you've got 2 brain cells.....one is lost and the other is sitting down, crying in the corner.
> 
> What are you.....12?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really? How many Mexicans have the Military Police stopped invading California? HA! HA! HA! California has the most Mexican invaders in the US. What an example. Did the remove your brain as well as your anal sphincter in the Navy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a possibility, I'm still wondering how the Mexican illegals come in from the Atlantic.
Click to expand...


They don't.

But Mexicans can be shipped to Cuba and then float over to the US and say they are Cubans, then they are legal! Solves the illegal part of the problem doesn't it.


----------



## LilOlLady

HOW TO FIX OUR BROKEN IMMIGRATION SYSTEM.

Send Mexico&#8217;s government the bill for educating children of illegal aliens, incarcerating criminal illegal aliens, cost of delivery and medical care, welfare and public housing and see how fast Mexico would close the border and come and get it&#8217;s people. Those that overstayed their visa is as illegal as those that crossed the border.

To deport them is not a punishment, it&#8217;s sending them home. There are doctors, schools, jobs and jails in Mexico. Mexico is more than capable of taking care of it&#8217;s own. But why should they, when we do it for them.

Why should the American taxpayer be responsible for illegal aliens? We don&#8217;t want them here. We did not bring them here. We did not ask for them. Businesses that want cheap labor did not bring them here either. They came on their own and Mexico did nothing to stop them.
Illegal aliens are bankrupting this country and no one does nothing but talk and talk some more. 
Let&#8217;s send Mexico a message. *A past due bill for $113 billion a year.*______________________________________________________
*&#8220;Poverty is not an excuse to lie and steal"
&#8220;Nowadays it is about as big a crime to be dumb as it is to be dishonest"
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.&#8221; *


----------



## LilOlLady

*Fake Birth Certificates Make Mexican Kids Citizens*
June 12, 1996
Federal investigators have questioned a midwife they suspect filed as many as 1,000 fake birth reports with the state so children born in Mexico could grow up as U.S. citizens. A spokesman for the Immigration and Naturalization Service allegedly sold the fake certificates for $800 each to parents with children born in Matamoros, Mexico, across from Brownsville, Texas.

Fake Birth Certificates Make Mexican Kids Citizens - Orlando Sentinel


----------



## LilOlLady

*The Truth About Anchor Babies*
Townhall.com ^ | September 13, 2010 | Bruce Bialosky 


There is another reason that people have adopted the impression that the law covers the children of illegal aliens  it is because the issue was rarely asserted. If a person came here illegally a century ago and had a baby, they would give birth with a midwife and then raise the child by their own means. *The world has changed. *People come here and have babies in hospitals. Even a simple birth can run $10,000. If the baby is a preemie, the bill can be as high as $500,000. Once they leave the hospital, they can be supported by their parents or they can become beneficiaries of the state. In one year alone, Los Angeles County spent over $50 million on welfare benefits for the children of illegal aliens. That does not include other governmental costs, such as expenses borne by the state and federal bureaucracies. That is just one county. We are a uniquely humane and generous country, but very few people who understand the real costs would endorse these expenditures. *It has little to do with the fact that they are foreigners or the color of their skin.* It has *everything to do with them being here illegally, *and, while we are a humane country, we are also a country of laws. Illegal aliens, by definition, are not following the process and are not abiding by our laws. 

The Truth About Anchor Babies


----------



## LilOlLady

ENFORCEMENT FIRST

If our immigration laws are enforced first then it will be easier and less costly to secure our border. If ICE enforced the law against businesses hiring illegal aliens it would dry up the jobs which is one incentive that brings them across the border illegally. No jobs, they leave and they will not come. As long as there are jobs for them they will get to them and no amount of border security will not stop them. Then replace 20 million illegal immigrants with 20 million legal immigrants. That takes care of the excuse that our economy will suffer if 20 million illegals were deported. Punish those who break the law and reward those who abide by the law. 

When American criminal break the law, the kids are left behind and families are broken. Criminals or illegal aliens should think of that before they commit the crime. When illegal aliens are deported they have the choice to take their children with them. Americans who break the law and go the jail dont have that choice. Enforcing our immigration laws do not separate families, the 14th Amendment does. Committing crimes do not keep families together.

Border agents are busting their butts 24-7-365 chasing illegal aliens across the border states, while drug smugglers are getting across. Enforcement first will dry up the incentive to come and border agents are free to bust their butts chasing drug smugglers 24-7-365.

Democrats and illegal immigrant advocates want to put the wagon in front of the horse and that dont work.

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Amnesty, n.* 

*The state's magnanimity to those offenders whom it would be too expensive to punish*.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Wrong.  You can't enforce immigration laws when the border is swiss cheese.


----------



## LilOlLady

MEXICOS PEOPLE NOT OUR FIX.



If we need Mexicos 20 million men, women and children and 500,000 anchor babies in our workforce, our military, save our social security, replace our retiring, and fix our economy and our future, who is going to replace Mexicos workforce, military, social security, and secure its future and replace the $35 billion sent back to Mexicos to families which will stop because those we legalize will be able to bring those families, 200,000 of them here? Who is going to fix Mexicos economy, retiring, education, welfare, social services, military, workforce and secure its future, etc? 

We will need more Mexicans to pay for retiring Mexicans. Mexico will need more money from us. If we kept the money we send Mexico and sent Mexicos people back to them, we could secure our future.

We had the 1986 amnesty and since we have added 20 million more illegals and our economy, education, law enforcement, healthcare, social security and Medicare system is STILL failing. Mexicos people are not our fix.

Cheap labor will still exist, bringing down wages because there will be an over supply of cheap labor.

If we need Mexicos people to fix our problem, who is going to fix Mexicos future?  We are?

*Mexicos people are not our fix, but our problem*


----------



## Madeline

I applaud you, LilOlLady.  What so few pro-Amnesty assholes will admit is that they advocating for a permanent slave class or underclass in the US.  Nothing could be more predatory or anti-American that that IMO.


----------



## Bullfighter

War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them 
all they want. 

*William Tecumseh Sherman *​


----------



## LilOlLady

*Mexico's Cultural Imperialism
Relationship Between Mexico's Cultural Imperialism 
and America's Failure to Enforce Immigration Laws *


Mexico is unable to manage its own government. 
Mexico is unable to educate and employ its own citizens. 
There is an economic diaspora of Mexico's poor and dark-skinned peoples to America. 
Mexico disregards the national sovereignty and geographic territory of America by permitting illegal emmigration. 
American businesses disregard American immigration laws. 
American government fails to enforce its immigration laws. 
Mexicans and Mexican Americans in America become major contributors to the Mexican economy through remittances and through purchase of Mexican exports. 
1970's: Mexican foreign policy begins promoting the development of Mexican culture and Mexican national identity among Mexicans and Mexican Americans residing in America. 
1975: American government recognized Hispanics [and Asians] as a victimized minority by amending the 1965 Voting Rights Act. Hispanic electoral districts were then created. 
1986: American government passed the Simpson-Rodino Act which granted amnesty to over 2 million illegal immigrants. 
Mexico begins to re-define itself as a borderless, cultural, collective unit as well as a geographic territory. 
1990: Mexican culture-based foreign policy was made official when the Program for Mexican Communities Abroad was established by Mexico's Secretariat of Foreign Affairs. 
1996: Mexico declared that Mexicans who become American citizens are still recognized by Mexico as Mexican nationals. 
Fostering cultural pluralism and the self-esteem of Mexicans and Mexican Americans in America is now regarded as the joint responsibility of the American and Mexican governments. 
2007: President of Mexico, Felipe Calderón, says, "Mexico does not end at its borders." 
2008: Calderón tells the American government how to manage the illegal immigration problem: "It is clearly important to have comprehensive immigration reform, and that comes at the federal level," (i.e., state rights and city ordinances should not go into effect when the federal government refuses to enforce current immigration laws). 
2015: Mexicans, Mexican Americans, and other Hispanics will form a majority in California and Texas. 
Wave of Consciousness - Mexico's Cultural Imperialism.


----------



## José

How morally depraved must a super patriotic american clown be to go looking for a foreign scapegoat to blame for the pornographic dereliction of duty of her own federal government?

The reality check says:

America is the richest country on Earth, has a sovereign, democratically elected federal government and the most badass military in the history of the human species that no country would be crazy enough to mess with.

No other country on the planet is better prepared, better equipped to protect its borders and expel illegals than America as soon as her government gathers enough political will.

*NOW YOU CAN SHUT UP!!*


----------



## konradv

They just want their country back!  I'll take my Tea with a shot of tequila, thanks.


----------



## Douger

José;2806685 said:
			
		

> How morally depraved must a super patriotic american clown be to go looking for a foreign scapegoat to blame for the pornographic dereliction of duty of her own federal government?
> 
> The reality check says:
> 
> America is the richest country on Earth, has a sovereign, democratically elected federal government and the most badass military in the history of the human species that no country would be crazy enough to mess with.
> 
> No other country on the planet is better prepared, better equipped to protect its borders and expel illegals than America as soon as her government gathers enough political will.
> 
> *NOW YOU CAN SHUT UP!!*


I remember the same chin music out of the USSR.
Prepare for your demise.


----------



## LilOlLady

*WHAT SHADOWS?*

They are working, paying taxes, have driver license, renting, buying home and cars, getting loans, have bank accounts, in maternity wards giving birth, in ERs and clinics, welfare offices, public housings, committing crimes, victims of crimes and in our prisons, their children are in schools, gangs and dealing drugs, in our stores using food stamps and WIC and cannot speak English. They are working for *Colin Powell and Meg Whitman*. They may even be cutting the Whitehouse lawn. Nicky is on national television  all across the country. *Why is she still here*? And isnt her attorney *aiding and abetting *an illegal alien?

*Only shadow illegal aliens are in is mine.* Every where I go they are there and some. They are not underground hiding out. I am sick of the same old lame rhetoric excuses to give illegal aliens amnesty;
*We cannot round up 12 million people, put them on busses and deport them 
We cannot deport illegal aliens because they have anchor babies and it would separate families 
Only way we can fix the broken immigration system is with amnesty*


----------



## LilOlLady

*Confirmed: Illegal Alien Burned Black Church *

The Perpetrator Who Burned The Black Church In Los Angeles Is In Fact An Illegal Alien

The Los Angeles Fired Department has confirmed that the apprehended Mr. Ricardo Aguilar Martinez, the perpetrator of the burned Black owned  operated worship of GOD and Jesus Christ sanctuary in Los Angeles is indeed on immigration hold, and is therefore, as we all have suspected, is in fact, an illegal alien. Though he has confessed to the crime, the perpetrator has pleaded in court Not Guilty.

http://www.tedhayes.us/CVR_Illegal_Alie ... Part_I.htm


----------



## D1983

I find it stupid to attack the people in this case. I am against illegal immigration myself. But I find it very bigoted and moronic to try and scapegoat the illegal-immigrants themselves. If all these companies improved working conditions and raised wages in a lot of sectors then millions of Americans can get back to work and we wouldn't have an illegal-immigration problem. People pretty much show their true colors in the illegal-immigration debate. All these illegal immigrants are the sole source of all our problems. But 90% of the anti-immigration crowd never say a word about all these corrupt companies hiring the illegals. They somehow get a pass. It's the equivalent of calling for all drug-users to be arrested while leaving the drug-dealers alone. If there's no jobs for these people then they wouldn't risk their lives trying to come here. Some people need to get their heads out of their asses. Then again most are probably your average uneducated backwater rubes who's pure motivation is racism. Either way illegal-immigration will never stop until we start cracking down on THE SOURCE.


----------



## LilOlLady

VIDEO  *The Constitution refutes Automatic Birthright Citizenship*

These unconstitutional births are *in violation of the 14th Amendment *regarding citizenship.   HOWEVER, the most important part of this issue is not just the births, but the *VOTE *that comes along with each illegal alien child in the USA!

Each Illegal Alien Infant can VOTE at the age of 18 in our Presidential Elections and every other local and State elections.   With the millions of illegal alien children born from Mexico in the USA today, we already see the affects of our politics change with Anchor Baby Politicians who have and are representing the Illegal Alien communities not the legal citizens in every state.  It* is only a matter of time when their VOTES will outnumber the LEGAL US Citizen.  *



VIDEO &#8211; The Constitution refutes &#8220;Automatic Birthright Citizenship&#8221;


----------



## LilOlLady

D1983 said:


> I find it stupid to attack the people in this case. I am against illegal immigration myself. But I find it very *bigoted and moronic *to try and *scapegoat the illegal-immigrants themselves*. If all these companies improved *working conditions *and *raised wages *in a lot of sectors then millions of Americans can get back to work and *we wouldn't have an illegal-immigration problem*. People pretty much show their true colors in the illegal-immigration debate. All these illegal immigrants are the sole source of all our problems. But 90% of the anti-immigration crowd never say a word about all these *corrupt companies *hiring the illegals. They somehow get a pass. It's the equivalent of calling for all drug-users to be arrested while leaving the *drug-dealers *alone. If there's *no jobs for these people *then they wouldn't risk their lives trying to come here. Some people need to get their heads out of their asses. Then again most are probably your average *uneducated backwater rubes *who's pure motivation is *racism.* Either way illegal-immigration will never stop until we start cracking down on *THE SOURCE*.



If you believe all this garbage you need a dose of reality.

Only only excuse pro illegal aliens have is racist and begots.

SOURCE? you got that right and there are incenitves; Automatic BIrthright Citizenship, free healthcare, welfare checks, food stamps and public houseng for their anchor babies and business who want cheap labor. and if they cannot get foreign illegal cheap labor they will considering moving over seas.


----------



## LilOlLady

*COMPREHENSIVE IMMIG. REFORM = AMNESTY. *
Or a path to citizenship as pro-illegal  immigrant prefer to call it because it sounds better than amnesty, will do nothing to stop illegal immigration and secure our borders or fix our broken immigration system which is not really broken except in pro-illegal immigrants minds who want amnesty for 20 million illegal immigrants  who have been claiming there is only 12 million for the past 10 years. The Dream Act that Dirty Harry tried to sneak past the American people is nothing more then amnesty via the children.

Comprehensive Immigration Reform means never enforcing our immigration laws until after they commit a serious crime? Since entering this country illegally and using stolen or false document in order to work, etc is a felon, what is considered a serious crime? A felon committed by illegal aliens are not really a felon or *Nicky would be on her way home *instead of appearing on national television crying crocodile tears. Americans who commit felons are not allowed to vote and businesses will not hire them, but illegal aliens who are felons have no problem getting jobs and they all should be deported. ASAP. *Deportation by attrition*, which take away jobs is the only way to fix our broken immigration system and control immigration and secure our borders. Plus taking away the other incentive Automatic Birthright Citizenship. Anything less is just a cheap band-aid they will fall off after the next 20 million illegal aliens. *We need a permanent fix and not a temporary fix.*


----------



## topspin

thank God we handled the those pesky indians in the proper fashion.


----------



## LilOlLady

topspin said:


> thank God we handled the those pesky indians in the proper fashion.



That's why I get a check each year from the Chickasaw nation, per government, for $23,000?
Did not handle it too well, uh?


----------



## topspin

LilOlLady said:


> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> thank God we handled the those pesky indians in the proper fashion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's why I get a check each year from the Chickasaw nation, per government, for $23,000?
> Did not handle it too well, uh?
Click to expand...


 you and 12 others, vs 20,000,000 mexicans. I say your political power if you harnessed it all in one county might get you a dog catcher position. 

 Kudos on your Big Governemnt check you fucking hypocrite


----------



## LilOlLady

*Meg Whitmans Cleaning Lady: Is $23 an Hour Exploitive?*


But undocumented or not, unfairly let go or not, one of the more interesting parts of all this is Ms. Santillans accusation that she was *exploited..and financially abused* by Ms. Whitman. But she was earning $23 an hour.

All the details arent known, so maybe Ms. Santillan was financially abused. But at a time when the *minimum wage in America is $7.25 an hour *(Californias is $8), and millions of Americans are out of work, *calling $23 an hour exploitation seemed worth further research*
What also struck me was that Ms. Santillan was hired through an agency. *Agencies are supposed to screen for things like immigration status*. In my experience, agencies want to get paid, they get paid by placing staff, Ms. Pearl says. And yes, we have seen situations, which honestly we find shocking, where* agencies have placed staff who are not legally able to work in the U.S.*
Meg Whitman&#8217;s Cleaning Lady: Is $23 an Hour Exploitive? - The Wealth Report - WSJ


----------



## LilOlLady

*New RN Grad's First Job - $23/hr. Is this a rip off?*Aug 14, 2009 
So after 3 months, 50+ applications to hospitals, doc offices, agencies, nursing homes.... I finally got my first job as a Registered Nurse at a nursing home and rehabilitation center in Chicago. The pay is* $23 per hour with benefits *or $25 per hour without benefits. I have heard from other people that the starting *salary for RNs in Chicago is usually $25-27 per hour. *I was so desperate to get a job so I accepted the offer but of course, I asked the DON why it's so low compared to other places. She tells me that I am new with no experience. OK, I just graduated so fine, I understand. 
New RN Grad's First Job - $23/hr. Is this a rip off? - Nursing for Nurses


----------



## LilOlLady

Minuteman Message Board  View topic - *Where were You on 9/11?*15 posts - 6 authors - Last post: Sep 10
America, roll up your sleeves, this might hurt a little, but this too will pass. *"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who ...*Minuteman Message Board &bull; View topic - Where were You on 9/11? - Cached
*SB1070 WILL STAND&#8206;* - 2 posts - Jul 31, 2010
*MS-13 GANGS: IMMIGRATION'S *...&#8206; - 1 post - Jun 26, 2010

More results from renewamerica.com »


----------



## José

*Where were You on 9/11?*

LilOlLady was certainly on the Internet blaming Mexico and illegal Mexicans for everything that happens under the sun...


----------



## Bullfighter

José;2824542 said:
			
		

> *Where were You on 9/11?*
> 
> LilOlLady was certainly on the Internet blaming Mexico and illegal Mexicans for everything that happens under the sun...


 
I was watching the BBC show Mexicans cheering!


----------



## Bullfighter

LilOlLady said:


> *New RN Grad's First Job - $23/hr. Is this a rip off?*Aug 14, 2009
> So after 3 months, 50+ applications to hospitals, doc offices, agencies, nursing homes.... I finally got my first job as a Registered Nurse at a nursing home and rehabilitation center in Chicago. The pay is* $23 per hour with benefits *or $25 per hour without benefits. I have heard from other people that the starting *salary for RNs in Chicago is usually $25-27 per hour. *I was so desperate to get a job so I accepted the offer but of course, I asked the DON why it's so low compared to other places. She tells me that I am new with no experience. OK, I just graduated so fine, I understand.
> New RN Grad's First Job - $23/hr. Is this a rip off? - Nursing for Nurses





> *Latino group awarded $3.4M to fund health career program*​
> 
> *February 26, 2010*
> *SUN-TIMES MEDIA WIRE*
> The Illinois Dept. of Labor has awarded the National Council of La Raza a $3.4 million award to invest in health services training for high-need Latino communities in Chicago
> 
> 
> The money will fund the Carreras en Salud program, which provides low-income, low-skilled Latinos with a structured but flexible career pathway to nursing and health occupations, according to a release from the NCLR.
> 
> 
> Carreras en Salud offers integrated services to overcome barriers to employment and career advancement, such as job training, career counseling and assistance in job placement, the release said.
> 
> 
> The program represents a workforce parternship betwen NCLR and its Chicago-based affiliates, the Instituto del Progreso Latino, Association House of Chicago and HumboldtParkVocationalEducationCenter, the release said.
> 
> 
> Services will be easily accessible, as all three partners are located in Latino communities -- HPVEC and AHC in the HumboldtPark area, and Instituto del Progreso Latino in the Pilsen neighborhood.
> 
> 
> NCLR is the largest national Latino civil rights and advocacy organization in the United States, the release said


 
You'll never see a nurse that isn't Latino again!


----------



## José

Bullfighter said:


> José;2824542 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Where were You on 9/11?*
> 
> LilOlLady was certainly on the Internet blaming Mexico and illegal Mexicans for everything that happens under the sun...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was watching the BBC show Mexicans cheering!
Click to expand...


You got the wrong people, dude... those were Palestinians...


----------



## Big Black Dog

On 9/11, I was sitting in my living room drinking a cup of coffee watching the news on tv and just about ready to get up and head to the office to begin the work day.  The news  cut into the scene at the WTC showing what was going on with the tower because of the plane crash.  As I watched the news I saw the second plane fly into the other WTC building.  I thought to myself, some air traffic controller is in very deep shit this morning but then it became apparent that this was a planned event because of all the other plane take-overs.  I got myself another cup of coffee and continued to watch and eventually called my office and said that I would not be coming in to work today and to let everybody go home with pay.  I watched the news on tv all day long.


----------



## LilOlLady

José;2824542 said:
			
		

> *Where were You on 9/11?*
> 
> LilOlLady was certainly on the Internet blaming Mexico and illegal Mexicans for everything that happens under the sun...



Sorry, Jose, The post was not about *you or illegal immigration *at all. 
Since it was not about you, except for
SB1070 WILL STAND&#8206; - 2 posts - Jul 31, 2010
MS-13 GANGS: IMMIGRATION'S ...&#8206; - 1 post - Jun 26, 2010

More results from renewamerica.com »
I would not expect you to get it.
I have enough to blame illegal alien Mexicans for than 9-11. and I may find something about 9-11 to blame them for. Hold on a minute.


----------



## LilOlLady

Exclusive: *Illegal Aliens and Driver's Licenses: A Terrorist Connection*?
Michael Cutler

Following up on a recent op-ed I wrote on the subject, we find that yes, illegal aliens who were recently arrested in New Mexico for trying to procure driver's licenses by using fraudulent documents were indeed from so-called *"special interest countries*" (countries linked to terrorism). *We also learn that the illegal aliens who took advantage of the fraudulent document scam (also run by illegal aliens) came from...New Jersey! *

Think about it: illegal aliens traveled across the United States to get to New Jersey, then crossed it again to obtain fraudulent licenses.Thanks to New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson,the DMV in New Mexico does not take immigration status into account when issuing licenses.A quote from the film A Field of Dreamsis most appropriate here: "If you build it, they will come."
Exclusive: Illegal Aliens and Driver's Licenses: A Terrorist Connection?  Publications  Family Security Matters


----------



## LilOlLady

*Did Mexicans really cheer when 9-11 happened in America ?*

QUOTE:
 "I understand Mexico did and to that poster we deserved it, tell me how many family members did you lose that day that makes you say my sister deserved to die "

Did Mexicans really cheer when 9-11 happened in America ? - Yahoo! Answers



*Smugglers carry people with links to terror into U.S.*

By Pauline Arrillaga and Olga R. Rodriguez
ASSOCIATED PRESS

July 3, 2005 "Several al-Qaeda leaders believe operatives can pay their way into the country through Mexico," Jim Loy, deputy secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, told a congressional committee in February. Further, he said, "*entrenched human smuggling networks and corruption in areas beyond our borders can be exploited by terrorist organizations." *
Smugglers carry people with links to terror into U.S. | The San Diego Union-Tribune


*Jose, Mexicans do have a connection to terrorist.*


----------



## LilOlLady

*Impacts Of Illegal Immigration: Terrorism*

When it comes to the impact of illegal immigration, terrorism must be at the top of the list due to its potential to directly harm the greatest number of Americans. It is worth noting that three of the four terrorist pilots in the 9/11 attack were in the country illegally. 9/11 was a precursor. The next big incident could be far greater and kill many more Americans.

"We really don't know who comes into this country illegally over the Southwest border," Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., says. "This is a big problem."

For all you parents and grandparents who still don't think controlling our borders and knowing who is in the country is important, you might want to check out Mass Slaughter in Our Public Schools: - The Terrorists' Chilling Plan where it is reported:

Impacts Of Illegal Immigration: Terrorism


----------



## LilOlLady

*Amnesty Costs 70 Times More Than Enforcement*

The cost of amnesty: *$999 billion.*
The cost of attrition by enforcement: as little as *$14 billion*.
Amnesty would cost up to 70 times as much as enforcing existing law. 
*Source: The Heritage Foundation*Summary: The Heritage Foundation issued two studies in 2007 pointing out that the big problem with mass legalization is that (a) most illegal aliens are low-skilled and therefore do not earn enough money to pay enough taxes to cover the government benefits they receive; and (b), amnesty would eventually make them eligible for the full array of welfare and medical benefits offered by local, state and federal governments. They found the cost of allowing illegal aliens to remain in the United States, and eventually to become citizens, would be $3.7 trillion through the year 2056. That works out to a present cost of $1 trillion, at a 5 percent discount rate. In other words, immediately upon passage of an amnesty bill, the United States government would need to put $1 trillion into an investment earning 5 percent per year if it were honest about paying for the costs of amnesty. 
Amnesty Costs 70 Times More Than Enforcement | NumbersUSA - For Lower Immigration Levels


----------



## Bullfighter

José;2824608 said:
			
		

> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José;2824542 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Where were You on 9/11?*
> 
> LilOlLady was certainly on the Internet blaming Mexico and illegal Mexicans for everything that happens under the sun...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was watching the BBC show Mexicans cheering!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You got the wrong people, dude... those were Palestinians...
Click to expand...

 
They sure look like the people who take over US neighborhoods then plant the Mexican flag there.


----------



## islam4ever

I was having sex before 911, during 911 and after 911.

I was not going to allow Bush and the Israeli Teror spoil my sex.


----------



## LilOlLady

There is no part of American society that illegal immigration do not affect. I just don't have time to name them all.


----------



## Servus

The major issue with legalisation is not the cost (as proven by Obama's previous trillion dollar bailouts), the problem is the fact that illegal aliens are going to simply continue coming if they find that they can become citizens as easily as Obama says they will. Multiple other problems ensue from the fact that although I do not want to be the steriotipical "they took our jerbs" conservative there are Federal laws in place to prevent illegal aliens from taking jobs here in our glorious country, but no the federal govt. is to interested in forcing what they believe to be their "morals" and "ethics" onto America the land for the people and by the people. Obama wants the votes that amnesty will get him, because lets face it congress and the house are going to get slaughtered come November and Barrack will not be able to put any more of his socialist doctrines into place. It is our duty to America to get our power back from Capitol hill in whatever way we must be it in the polls or resistance when they come to take our guns. America help make our country great again.
-Servus


----------



## Big Black Dog

Amnesty was granted once before and it didn't work out so well for anybody except the illegal aliens.  Even more have come back into the country and why not?  It seems like an easy thing to do.  Sneak into America, have a baby so the baby becomes an America due to it's birth in this country, i.e., "anchor baby" and bingo - it becomes almost impossible to get you back across the border and out of the country.  How do we solve this problem of a constant influx of illegal aliens?  Simple.  Once an illegal alien is discovered, escort them back to the border, inform them to not come back into the country illegally and allow them to walk back across the border into their own country.  Take the "anchor baby" with you.  The second time they are caught illegally in the country, take them back to the border, return them to their own country on a stretcher and tell them not to come back into the country again illegally.  The third time they are caught in the country illegally, take them back to the border and carry them in a body bag back across the border and tell some body there to bury them.  I think this would solve the problem of illegal aliens sneaking into the country from Mexico.


----------



## eots

I was on a orchard full of Hindu and sheiks...you could tell by there silence that they knew dumb rednecks would soon be calling for blood and anyone with a turban would be viewed as both Muslim and the enemy...about the most any of them had to say was"oh my this is not good" "no,no ..not good at all..."


----------



## LilOlLady

PUT THE MILITARY ON THE BORDER.

We need to put the military on the border if we are serious about stopping the flow of drugs and illegal aliens and the flow of drug money and guns going back across the border. The only way to defeat drug cartels is to hit them were it hurt. Stop their flow of drugs and money.  If they cannot move their drugs across the border they will take their drugs elsewhere. Our problem is solved and Mexicos problem is solved.

If we really wanted to stop the flow of drugs and illegal aliens, we need to get as serious as drug cartels are about moving their drug and getting their money by stopping them from moving their drugs and getting their money.

Border agents are doing the best job they can with what they got but that is not enough and drug cartels know it. Drugs and money are still getting across the border. Until we stop the flow of drugs, Mexicos problem with drug cartels will continue.

We need to put the military on the border, if only temporary, until drug cartels get the message they their drugs are not going to get across.

If we enforce our immigration laws, illegal aliens will get the message and will go home and will not come. Another problem for border agents solved.


----------



## LilOlLady

Big Black Dog said:


> On 9/11, I was sitting in my living room drinking a cup of coffee watching the news on tv and just about ready to get up and head to the office to begin the work day.  The news  cut into the scene at the WTC showing what was going on with the tower because of the plane crash.  As I watched the news I saw the second plane fly into the other WTC building.  I thought to myself, some air traffic controller is in very deep shit this morning but then it became apparent that this was a planned event because of all the other plane take-overs.  I got myself another cup of coffee and continued to watch and eventually called my office and said that I would not be coming in to work today and to let everybody go home with pay.  I watched the news on tv all day long.



*"Let me be a free man, free to travel, free to stop, free to work, free to trade where I choose, free to choose my own teachers, free to follow the religion of my fathers, free to talk, think, and act for myself--and I will obey every law or submit to the penalty.*Chief Joseph


----------



## LilOlLady

*Harry Reid: No Illegal Aliens Working Construction in Nevada*by Ira Mehlman

Explaining to CBS News 8 in Las Vegas why, in his capacity as Senate Majority Leader, he blocked a vote on requiring the use of E-Verify for all contractors benefiting from federal stimulus money while his Nevada constituents suffer from one of the highest unemployment rates in the country, Sen. Harry Reid flatly denied that illegal aliens work construction jobs in his home state. 
*LMAO IN NEVADA.*
Responding to a reporter's question about concerns expressed by unemployed construction workers in Nevada that illegal aliens are filling many of their jobs, Reid replied, "Any information you have [about illegal aliens working construction in Nevada] is absolutely without foundation." Pressed further by the reporter who cited a Pew Hispanic Center study that illegal aliens occupy 17 percent of construction jobs nationwide, and assertions by local labor leaders that illegal immigration is harming union members, Reid stuck to his guns. "That may be true someplace, but not here in Nevada," the senator insisted.

Harry Reid: No Illegal Aliens Working Construction in Nevada | DAN STEIN // STEIN REPORT 2000-2010®


But their latest 2009 numbers show *Nevada is the state with the highest percentage of unauthorized immigrants in the labor force*.
Something else I bet you didnt know: According to Reid,* paying income taxes in the United States is  voluntary.*Harry Reid: There are no illegal immigrants working in construction in NV  Sister Toldjah

*Harry Reid need to visit a construction site in Nevada and see the illegal working in construction 
AND
Obama need to visit the Arizona borders and see the hard working illegal aliens smuggling drugs.*


----------



## Steerpike

LOL.

Harry Reid is an idiot.


----------



## uscitizen

Aren't all politicians idiots?


----------



## Steerpike

uscitizen said:


> Aren't all politicians idiots?



Well, the vast majority, seems to me.


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## Angelhair

_Such an IDIOT!!!_


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Sure, Harry, sure


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## B. Kidd

It's alot harder to find an illegal alien at a NV. construction site because there are currently few active construction sites here anymore.


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## 007

I hope this is the final nail in Reid's reelection hopes coffin. Lying mother fucker... needs his shit stain ass kicked to the curb.


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## LuvtheStars

There is alot of construction near Mountains Edge and when i drive by it seems alot of the workers are mexican..but you cant really tell. It makes you wonder though......


----------



## LilOlLady

B. Kidd said:


> It's alot harder to find an illegal alien at a NV. construction site because there are currently few active construction sites here anymore.



Where there is construction going on, you will find an illegal. Yard work and road work, you will find them too. And a lot of stimulus money is going to road work.


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## LilOlLady

Why are all the illegal aliens *coming out of the shadows *accusing canidates of knowing they are in the country illegal. One just came of against Sandoval in Nevada and he say he never knew her. She *owned a cleaning business *then? Illegals are owning business getting business loans?
They are NOT in the shadows because they have nothing to fear.


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## LilOlLady

Nevada don't want Reid or any of his off springs. Rory Reid.


Reid, 48, is running against Republican Brian Sandoval, a former federal judge who was the first Hispanic in Nevada to win a statewide election when was elected attorney general in 2002.

Reid has enlisted Hispanic leaders, including comedian *Carlos Mencia *and labor leader *Dolores Huerta*, who've criticized Sandoval as being *Hispanic in name only.*

Sandoval, 47, angered some Latinos for supporting Arizona's tough immigration law, though he later said a similar law was not needed Nevada. He also apologized when a reporter for a Spanish language network, writing in a newspaper column, accused Sandoval of saying *his own children "don't look Hispanic*" when asked if racial profiling would be a concern. In a written statement, Sandoval said while he didn't recall making the remark, which was not recorded, "it was wrong" if he did.
Rory Reid Fights To Gain Traction In NV Gov Race - CBS News


----------



## B. Kidd

LuvtheStars said:


> There is alot of construction near Mountains Edge and when i drive by it seems alot of the workers are mexican..but you cant really tell. It makes you wonder though......




There's so much construction here, that's why the pawn shops stopped taking construction workers' tools over a year and a half ago .

But I'll cut you a break, you just moved here.
Next time you ride by there, stop and ask some of the workers if they're illegal or not. No, wait.....don't do that, it would be 'racial profiling'.


----------



## LilOlLady

COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM #2
A REPEAT PERFORMANCE

1986 Comprehensive Immigration Reform did not work to control immigration and secure the border so why do we think Comprehensive Immigration Reform #2, a repeat performance, will work when we now have 20 million illegal aliens  and we will have 30 million more illegal aliens in the country in 20 years? Illegal immigration has tripled since 1986 which mean it had the opposite effect and did not control illegal immigration and secure the border. 

Our immigration system was broken in 1986 and it is still broken in 2010. Are we going to learn from that mistake or are we going to have a repeat performance of 1986? Or will we try something else like enforcing our immigration laws that worked in the past with Operation Wetback and it will work now without out rounding them up, putting them on busses and deporting them. Just say, we cannot round 20 million people up and deport them, but we can take away the incentives (that broke the system) that bring them here and keep them here, jobs, freebies and the 14th Amendment. 

Parents of 500,000 anchor babies feel they have a right to remain in this country only because they have American born children by default and that is unconstitutional. 

Our immigration system is broken because we allowed it to be broken. Citizenship is not attained by way of anchor babies but by way of at least one parent being an American citizen.

It is way past time to enforce our immigration laws or get rid of them and open the border because as long as we dont enforce them our border patrol agents are working their butts off in vain.

If we do not learn from our mistakes, we are bound to repeat them. Comprehensive Immigration Reform #2 will only lead to Comprehensive Immigration Reform #3.

It is not possible to put a bag of cookies in front of a baby and expect him to take only one. We cannot put out the call for cheap labor, advertising freebies, and the 14th Amendment and expect no takers.  When we advertise Comprehensive Immigration Reform, there is a rush across the border like the 1849 gold rush.

A temporary worker program worked in the past to control the need for workers and we can make it work again.

We have 17% of illegal aliens working in construction and we have 200 million unemployed construction workers. 
Charting jobs & unemployment - Fundmastery Blog - MarketWatch


----------



## LilOlLady

*Where is my post?**The Mexican Invasion and Occupation: *
Who Pays? ANOTHER FORM OF CORP WELFARE? 

OBAMA AND HIS SELLOUT OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE FOR WALL ST. AND THE ILLEGALS' ILLEGAL VOTES. In California alone, WELFARE to illegals cost $20 billion! Keeping criminal illegals in state prisons cost ONE BILLION! Los Angeles County pays out $600 million per year in welfare to illegals! While 47% of those with a job are illegals with stolen social securty numbers. And then there's the MEXICAN CRIME TIDAL WAVE!TIME TO END THE MEX INVASION? - EMAIL ARTICLES TO EVERYONE

The Mexican Invasion and Occupation: Who Pays? ANOTHER FORM OF CORP WELFARE?

&#12288;

*Arizona Sheriff: Mexican drug cartels control parts of Arizona...*
The federal government has posted signs along a major interstate highway in Arizona, more than 100 miles north of the U.S.-Mexico border, warning travelers the area is unsafe because of drug and alien smugglers, and a local sheriff says Mexican drug cartels now control some parts of the state.

The signs were posted by the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) along a 60-mile stretch of Interstate 8 between Casa Grande and Gila Bend, a major east-west corridor linking Tucson and Phoenix with San Diego.

They warn travelers that they are entering an "active drug and human smuggling area" and they may encounter "armed criminals and smuggling vehicles traveling at high rates of speed." Beginning less than 50 miles south of Phoenix, the signs encourage travelers to "use public lands north of Interstate 8" and to call 911 if they "see suspicious activity."

If Germans had occupied part of US pre WWII we would have ignored it?

Arizona Sheriff: Mexican drug cartels control parts of Arizona...



Is it Assimilation or Invasion?
by: Phyllis Schlafly
November 28, 2001

&#12288;

While there is no evidence that the 9/11 terrorists entered over the Mexican border, the trial in El Paso of an Iraqi smuggler produced evidence that he alone brought more than 1,000 Middle East illegals into the United States via that route, charging his clients $10,000 to $15,000 each. Border Patrol agents have confirmed the increase in illegal aliens coming from the Middle East across our southern border and the fact that Arabs pay up to $50,000 each for a "coyote" to smuggle them into the United States. 

The 9/11 events have temporarily shelved the foolish proposals to grant amnesty to three million ????Mexicans illegally living in our country. Unfortunately, there is no indication that Mexico has retreated from its longtime goal of opening the U.S. border. 

The Mexican invasion of the United States of America


----------



## LilOlLady

B. Kidd said:


> LuvtheStars said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is alot of construction near Mountains Edge and when i drive by it seems alot of the workers are mexican..but you cant really tell. It makes you wonder though......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's so much construction here, that's why the pawn shops stopped taking construction workers' tools over a year and a half ago .
> 
> 
> 
> But I'll cut you a break, you just moved here.
> Next time you ride by there, stop and ask some of the workers if they're illegal or not. No, wait.....don't do that, it would be 'racial profiling'.
Click to expand...


When and where there is construction work there are illegal aliens working in place of Americans. I don't need a break, I've been here since 1970 and have seen the influx of illegal aliens and Americans moving away. Jobs in casinos,  hotels, garbage collecting, lawn work, fast food resturants, road work, etc has taken jobs from unskilled black, whites and legal aliens. What little construction is going on now is done by illegal aliens. Open your eyes.


----------



## LilOlLady

*ANCHOR BABIES: 
THE IRISH GOT IT RIGHT*PART 3

By Frosty Wooldridge
August 24, 2009
NewsWithViews.com

It is worth noting that very few immigrant parents are *actually refugees or asylum-seekers *and the majority are people who have come over here to have an Irish baby and* Irish citizen," *said Dr Keane.

A member of Fianna Fail, Ireland's Republican Party, appearing on television stating that "*60% of all female asylum-seekers over the age of 16 arrive here pregnant." *
Ireland is experiencing the same abuse of their immigration laws as the U.S. The difference is they choose to do something about it. In January 2003 the *Irish Supreme Court *ruled in a landmark decision by a *5-2 verdict that immigrant parents of an Irish born child could be deporte*d. This was the first *reversal of Ireland's liberal policy *of *granting residency and possibly citizenship to anyone who had a baby on the island, including illegal aliens. *Deputy Prime Minister Mary Harney was encouraged by the courts decision, saying, *It will prevent others from coming to Ireland to abuse our asylum process on the basis that they are pregnant." *

By November 2001 asylum seekers had submitted* 5,247 applications asking for permission to remain in the country on the basis of parenting an Irish citizen child*. 
Frosty Wooldridge -- Anchor Babies: The Irish Got it Right, Part 3


----------



## Angelhair

_The USA will NEVER get it right!  There are too many bleeding hearts calling the shots!_


----------



## LilOlLady

HUD:* Five Million Fraudulent Mortgages Held by Illegals*KFYI ^ | OCT 7 2008 | KFYI 

Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 
by HollyButler

One illegal alien was arrested this year in Tucson after allegedly using *a stolen social security number *to buy two homes and rack up over *$780,000 in bad debt. *
Some *five million fraudulent home mortgages are in the hands of illegal aliens*, according to the *U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development. *It's not known how many of those have contributed to the subprime housing mortgage meltdown, but it has affected every state, including Arizona. 

The problem began years ago when banks were forced to give mortgages without confirming social security numbers or borrower identification. As a result, illegal immigrants were able to obtain home mortgages which they* could not afford. *

HUD: Five Million Fraudulent Mortgages Held by Illegals

*Proof of Citizenship and the Foreclosure Crisis*Posted by BEREL News Team on Friday, June 18th 2010     


So, we have established that the lenders were not breaking the letter of any laws by issuing loans to illegal aliens, but what about the *number of illegals defaulting on their mortgages? *Not surprisingly, these numbers are difficult to come by since the* entire identification process is somewhat difficult*. Particularly in light of recent stabs at immigration reform, illegal residents of the United States that have put down roots and purchased homes are not rushing to fill out surveys about *how, why and how long they plan to pay their mortgages*

Bryan Ellis Real Estate Letter - Proof of Citizenship and the Foreclosure Crisis


----------



## LilOlLady

*Across Texas, 60,000 babies of noncitizens get U.S. birthright*08:59 AM CDT on Sunday, August 8, 2010

"*They're violating our law, and we're giving their children the benefit of U.S. citizenship*," said state Rep. Leo Berman, R-Tyler, whose 2009 bill in the Legislature would have challenged the birthright of immigrant children. 

That bill died in committee, although *Berman has vowed to file another version next year *that would prohibit the state from issuing birth certificates to the children of "illegal aliens." 

"I've checked the Congressional Record for when the 14th Amendment was written, and the author was quoted as saying that *it did not apply to foreigners," he said. "There's no question in my mind about it." *

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/d... 
*
I hope he is right and the 14th do not need amending but correctly applied. The mistake may have been trying to change the 14th and it did not need changing.*


----------



## uscitizen

Umm this is not a new thing in TX.


----------



## Sallow

Conservatives.

When they actually read the Constitution, they can't stand it.


----------



## LilOlLady

*ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION VIDEOS*

Illegal Immigration - Bing Videos


----------



## LilOlLady

*Abuse of Amnesty; Chain Migration-Immigration Law *
by Ed Winkler-

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upqZipkyeMw[/ame]


----------



## LilOlLady

*Chain Migration* 

Chain migration is the primary mechanism that has caused legal immigration in this country to *quadruple *from about 250,000 per year in the 1950s and 1960s to more than one million a year since 1990. As such, it is one of the chief culprits in America's current record-breaking population boom and all the attendant sprawl, congestion, school overcrowding, and other impacts that *reduce American's quality of life*.

*Chain migration is about family reunification beyond the nuclear family.* Until the late 1950s, America's immigration tradition of family unity had only included spouses and minor children. But since then, immigrants can also send for their *siblings, parents and adult children. *These non-nuclear family members actually get precedence over an immigrant&#8217;s nuclear family. This ill-conceived system also creates incentives for illegal immigration because adult relatives of legal residents are known to overstay their visas (becoming illegal aliens) in hopes of becoming legal immigrants. Moreover, since *hundreds of millions of people in the world have a relative in the U.S., *the migration chain can eventually reach them all.

The claim that chain migration is about* &#8220;family reunification*&#8221; ignores the fact that each immigrant who comes to the U.S. *&#8220;disunites*&#8221; another family by leaving some new relatives behind. If a person really wants to live near his/her extended family, *he/she should remain in the country where that extended family lives.* Except for the very small percentage of each year's newcomers who are refugees, nobody is forcing immigrants to leave their families. Chain Migration | NumbersUSA - For Lower Immigration Levels


----------



## LilOlLady

*Immigration Amnesty Pushed Through Back Door In Houston Federal Courts*
In early August, federal attorneys in Houston started filing unsolicited motions to dismiss cases involving suspected illegal immigrants who have lived in the country for years without committing serious crimes.

News of the dismissals, first reported in the Houston Chronicle in late August, caused a national controversy amid allegations that the Obama administration was implementing a kind of backdoor amnesty a charge officials strongly denied.


Immigration Amnesty Pushed Through Back Door In Houston Federal Courts &ndash; Indyposted


----------



## syrenn

That sounds about right to me.


----------



## LilOlLady

*
Why Birthright Citizenship Matters*
By Linda Thom
September 30, 2010
 (LT Note: all numbers are from California Department of Public Health and have been collected by me since the 90s. The numbers are unpublished and were obtained directly from the state vital statistics personnel. Current numbers are available their website.
The surge in births between 1975 and 1990 was caused, in large part, by illegal immigration from Mexico and Central America. Their *children became citizens at birth*. And *now these babies are all grown up and producing babies of their own.* 

The most current national data cause the same concern as do the California and Texas numbers. Many of the Hispanic, birth-mothers arrived illegally and their numbers are huge and growing. 
The table below shows birth data for the whole country. The Center for Disease Control publishes annual reports with data collected by hospitals, transmitted to counties, states and then to the federal government. 
VDARE.com: 09/30/10 - Why Birthright Citizenship Matters


----------



## LilOlLady

*MEXICAN TERRORIST*

Mexican terrorist *(drug cartels*) with WMDs (*drugs) *are waging war against American citizens and winning because we dont want to recognize it. They have crossed the border with their WMDs (*drugs) and occupying parts of Arizona*, *kidnapping and killing Americans*. Parts of Arizona has been declared a war zone by drug cartels and our *limp w**** government *will not let us fight back. What did we do when we were attacked on 9-11 by Muslim terrorist? We followed them where ever they were and *waged war against them with all our military might*. What are we not going after drug cartels terrorist with all our military might? Are we afraid of *offending Mexico and losing their cheap labor*? We were not afraid of offending Afghanistan. If we did declare war on Mexican terrorist, would we put *Mexican Americans in internment camps and deport those here illegally*? 

Mexico is a bigger threat to our freedom than Iraq or Afghanistan. *Illegal aliens and drugs *have killed more Americans than* 9-11, al Qaeda and IEDs. *It is time we send *Mexican drug terrorist the same message we sent Muslim terrorists*. Uncle Sam dont play that.


----------



## topspin

remove the profits, vote yes on prop 19!!!


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## LilOlLady

*Sheriff makes his case for anti-smuggling unit*By KATHLEEN STINSON
Staff Writer
Published: Friday, October 15, 2010


FLORENCE  Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu laid out his case for an *anti-smuggling enforcement squad *on Oct. 13 before the Board of Supervisors to take out the eyes of the smugglers who require lookouts or scouts as they pass through the county.

The *board heard the sheriffs request in work session *and *did not take action*.

Babeu proposed a seven-person unit to patrol a narrow corridor in the vicinity of Arizona City and Silverbell, where the drug and human traffickers are known to pass through Pinal County.

Including salaries and equipment, the unit is estimated to cost $1,044,219 the first year and $501,716 each following year.

TriValley Central


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## LilOlLady

The argument for keeping "birthright citizenship"?? 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_ZnX9JRo5M&NR=1[/ame]
[+] Rate this post positively


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## LilOlLady

*20 YEAR OLD MEXICAN CHIEF OF POLICE GOT CAJONES.*
This should send a message to millions of illegal aliens who have no cajones who tucked and run when the going got rough. *This girl is a real Mexican.*

*Mexican student made police chief *A 20-year-old Mexican woman has been appointed to fight drugs cartels in a town on a major trafficking route to the US.

As drugs-related violence in Mexico continues at a staggering pace, in one municipality where seasoned professionals have failed to provide security a 20-year-old student has been appointed as chief of the police force.
Marisol Valles Garcia was sworn in on Wednesday as head of a small police team in Praxeids G Guerrero, one of the most dangerous towns close to the US border, near El Paso in Texas.
Mexican student made police chief - Americas - Al Jazeera English


----------



## LilOlLady

*Differences in Education Between Mexico & US*By Gina Confessore, 
September 11, 2009

*Structure in United States Schools*In the United States, free public schooling may begin as early as preschool around age 4 and continues on to the end of high school, or grade 12. There are one to two years of preschool, depending on the state. Then there is elementary school, which is from grades one to five or six, depending on the district. Most elementary schools are kindergarten through grade five. Then middle schools teach students in grades six through eight, mostly. High school almost always consists of grades nine through 12. 

*Structure in Mexican Schools*In Mexico, there is preschool as well, followed by primary school. Primary school consists of six years of education until approximately ages 11 or 12. Afterward, students attend secondary school, or middle school, for three years much like in the United States. After secondary school, students attend the high school, which can either be a technical school for those who will attend college or a vocational school. High school lasts only three years in Mexico. 

*Public Education Laws*The United States provides free education for students from until grade 12, with free textbooks. Students are required to attend school until a certain age, depending on the state. In Mexico, the states must provide education up until upper secondary school; however, after grade six, families must pay for textbooks. 


Read more: http://www.ehow.com/about_5386670_differences...


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## LilOlLady

Education in Mexico is comparable to education in the U.S. and the excuse that the *poor little kids that are here by no choice of their own*, have to stay here in order to get a good education is bunk. Many americans attend school in mexico. And we mean old americans want to deprive poor little kids of a good education. CMAO

*Education in Mexico*
Proof of Mexican citizenship is required to attend public schools for free, but foreigners can attend public schools by paying a tuition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Mex...


----------



## LilOlLady

*COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM WOULD REPEAL 287(G)*
Section 287(g) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) was made law in the United States in 1995 as a result of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act (IIRIRA). Section 287(g) authorizes the Federal Government to enter into agreements with state and local law enforcement agencies, permitting designated officers to perform immigration law enforcement functions, pursuant to a Memorandum of Agreement (MOA), provided that the local law enforcement officers receive appropriate training and function under the supervision of sworn U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officers. Under 287(g), ICE provides state and local law enforcement with the training and subsequent authorization to identify, process, and when appropriate, detain immigration offenders they encounter during their regular, daily law-enforcement activity.

The March 2010 arrest of undocumented student Jessica Colotl sparked an intense debate around immigration issues, with Colotl's supporters calling for an end to 287(g). *Colotl was arrested in Cobb County, Georgia, which has 287(g) legislation, and faces deportation.*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_Section_287(g)

*Enforcement:* The bill repeals the controversial 287(g) program, a provision of immigration law relating to cooperation between state and local enforcement agencies and ICE (*misused by some agencies bent on harassing immigrants*) and clarifies that the authority to enforce the federal immigration law lies solely with the federal government.

*If you reward bad behavior you, get more bad behavior
 If we dont learn from history, were bound to repeat it
AMNESTY means never having immigration enforcement*


----------



## LilOlLady

*Mi Familia Vota, SEIU, and the illegal alien swing vote*
By Michelle Malkin  
October 25, 2010 

Michelle Malkin  Mi Familia Vota, SEIU, and the illegal alien swing vote


*VOTE FRAUD*
Because of virtually no vote fraud enforcement, motor voter registration, driver's licenses for illegal aliens, amnesties and other factors, American's most precious liberty, voting, is being rapidly undermined by illegal aliens.  

IllegalAliens.US-Vote Fraud (Illegal aliens are stealing our elections too!)


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## Defiant1

When you consider the countless men and women that have given their lives to keep this country free and allow free elections, when you think of all the courageous men and women that continue to volunteer to serve and keep this country free it is outrageous that there are those among us that think so little of our freedoms.

The penalty for voter fraud should be death.


----------



## Care4all

illegals and non citizens should not be permitted to vote.

Felons or ex felons, that depends on the state....some states allow felon's/exfelons to vote.....it's up to the state.

if florida in 2000....





> # In Florida, election observers say a &#8220;sizable number&#8221; of Florida votes in the 2000 election may have been cast by ineligible felons, illegal immigrants, and non-citizens. [6]



then Bush should not have been president, the Cubans in florida supported republicans and president bush, NOT Gore....

they HATED clinton for what he did to elian gonzalez...

there were thousands of citizens that had a ''right'' to vote that were PREVENTED from voting because of the 'felon list' that was absolutely bogus that katherine harris PAID millions for, that was inaccurate.  it was a drag net of a list and many people who were eligible to vote were prevented from voting.


----------



## LilOlLady

Reid Aide Departs Over Fake Marriage Allegations 

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reids Hispanic press secretary has departed after a news report accused her of a sham marriage to help a man evade immigration laws. 


LAS VEGAS (October 26, 2010)--A spokesman for U.S. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid says Reid's Hispanic press secretary in Nevada is no longer with the office in the wake of a news report accusing her of a fake marriage to help a man evade immigration laws.

The Fox News report said Tejada, 28, lied to authorities to cover up her marriage to 37-year-old Bassam Mahmoud Tarhini, but the report says *Tejada was never charged with a crime*. 

http://www.kwtx.com/news/headlines/Reid ... ml?ref=928


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## LilOlLady

*Federal Immigration and Nationality Act*Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii)

"Any person who . . . encourages or induces an alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."

Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):

A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) *commits a federal felony *when she or he:

* assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or

* encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or

* knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.
Penalties upon conviction include *criminal fines, imprisonment*, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property used to commit the crime. Anyone employing or contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his or her work authorization status is guilty of a misdemeanor. Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to arrest, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property. In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.


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## LilOlLady

This is one of the reason we cannot control illegal immigration.


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## Revere

Getting married in an Elvis chapel is Vegas was their first mistake.


----------



## chanel

I posted this earlier today. This should be big news. Either Reid's people got this woman off, or they were simply unaware of her shady fake husband. In one scenario they are corrupt, In the other, they are incompetent.  Let's see how the lame stream media covers it. They were all over that illegal maid story in CA.


----------



## Angelhair

_Reid helped her get away with it - pure and simple._


----------



## LilOlLady

*Ballads For The Bad Guys*

In Rialto, on old route 66 just outside Los Angeles, young Mexican Americans in sharp cars and glittery, cowboy-goth clothes are pouring into a hangar-size nightclub to hear El Komander sing. Brawny, buzz-cut and with a midnight pallor, El Komander looks as if a Mexican drug cartel might have sent him on a summer internship with the Russian mob. He's wearing a black satin cowboy outfit with flashes of silver lightning embroidered on its sleeves. His narcocorridos  narco ballads  are about the gunfights and beheadings going on south of the border: the word asesino (murderer) figures heavily in his lyrics. "Trashed with drugs," he croons in a deceptively sweet voice. "Blowing heads off those who cross us." 
(See a documentary about the dangerous lives of narcocorridos.)


Read more: Ballads For The Bad Guys - TIME

Ballads For The Bad Guys - TIME


----------



## LilOlLady

Ballards For the Bad Guys.
Quotes;

&#8230;.the songs celebrate the violent lives&#8230;and grisly deaths&#8230;of Mexican drug lords&#8230;spread quickly from Mexico&#8230;touring the US&#8230;..Alfred Rios, &#8220;My fans think this music give them and identity&#8221;
&#8230;.many balladeers receive money form drug lords to write paeans about the exploits, &#8230;paid to perform at gangs private parties  in secret hideouts
&#8230;With an AK-47, trashed with drugs, blowing heads off those who cross us. We are bloodthirsty crazies, very high. We like to kill, to kidnap. We are the best, always traveling by caravan
&#8230;.The Narcocorredo has given some young Mexican-Americans and young second and third generation Hispanic Americans who feel the &#8220;hopelessness&#8221; of making a living in the US during these grim economic times&#8230;.has given some young Mexican-Americans a new, if violent , sense of identity within the American cauldron of ethnicities&#8230;I feel I am from down here, Mexico, and I am proud of it
&#8230;&#8220;It&#8217;s  as tough as gangsta rap, and it&#8217;s Mexican. It&#8217;s who we are.&#8221;
&#8230;.They update the lyrics to keep up with the barbarism of the cartel killers. Beheadings were passe; killers were chopping their rivals into pieces and dumping them into vats of lye so the bodies could never be identified
&#8230;.most of the men in the audience were dressed like wannabe drug traffickers, sporting Ed Hardy cowboy shirts emblazoned with golden eagles and AK-47s&#8230;.&#8221;It&#8217;s a lifestyle&#8221;
&#8230;.our audience is the illegal immigrant, the second-generation Mexican-American who wants to rediscover their roots&#8221;
&#8230;..a drug trafficker&#8217;s birthday party, the singer performed with a brand new M16 simi-automatic rifle slung across his shoulder. The head boss got for his birthday
&#8230;&#8230;the King of Crystal had been exporting several tons of meth and cocaine in the US over the past 10 years.


----------



## LilOlLady

*NAPOLITANO NEEDS HELP FROM LOCAL OFFICERS*

Napolitano said homeland security needs help from local law enforcement in catching *homegrown terrorist.* But she don&#8217;t need help in *stopping illegal aliens *who have killed more Americans than *homegrown or foreign terrorist *and more of a *threat to this country*. That&#8217;s not the job of local and state law enforcement?
23 year old Julian Castro, mayor of San Antonia, TX supports amnesty and Comprehensive Immigration Reform. Is he an anchor baby? IF he is, he is a *homegrown terrorist and a threat to America.*


----------



## Ravi

Hitting the bottle early today?


----------



## LilOlLady

*ILLEGALS BANKRUPT MASS HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.*


*Massachusetts health program, model for Obama&#8217;s reform, strains state budget*


Physicians for a National Health Plan, a doctor&#8217;s group that supports a fully socialized, single-payer health-care system, warned in a February 2009 report that the new system had failed to reduce medical spending, and has subsequently drawn funding away from crucial health resources such as emergency room care.

And in summer 2009, the state announced plans to drop coverage for 30,000 legal immigrants with a goal of cutting $130 million in health-care expenses

Massachusetts health program, model for Obama&#8217;s reform, strains state budget | The Daily Caller - Breaking News, Opinion, Research, and Entertainment

*Then they will only use ER and that will cost more.*


----------



## LilOlLady

COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM???

There are too many unanswered questions about how Comprehensive Immigration Reform will be implemented. Most important question is not we pay for it and the population explosion of poverty through the chain migration of family members. How much is it going to cost just to process 20 million illegal aliens on a path to citizenshp? Sound like a nightmare with no waking up.

What happens if one do not pass a background check? Are they or the entire family deported even those with anchor babies or nothing? What happens if one commit a crime after they are put on a path to citizenship under the same circumstances? This will separate families and we dont want to do that? Lot of them are already committing crimes and just have not been caught.

How do you get them to pay the $5,000 fine? And dont want to be put on a path to citizenship? Go to the back of the line which is 20 years long and if they are stupid enough to think they will ever become citizens. What if they only want legal status and not citizenship?

What about those who are criminals and do not come forward because they have a criminal background? How will you find them or will you even look for them?

How will putting 20 million people on a path to citizenship stop or control illegal immigration and secure the border?

The are too many unanswerable question to even think about  Comprehensive Immigration Reform and I am afraid it will end up being nothing less than blind amnesty. How do you get them to pay back taxes  when it is not possible to know how much they owe?
Comprehensive Immigration Reform cannot be implemented as  planned. Way too complicated that a rocket scientist could not do it. 1986 amnesty did not stop or control illegal immigration or secure the border and Comprehensive Immigration Reform will not either. It led to 20 million more illegal aliens, half million anchor babies and the border no where near being secured.  Matter of fact the border has been moved 80 miles inland in Arizona. 
Comprehensive Immigration Reform is just another Democrat ploy for amnesty.


----------



## LilOlLady

* Reid vows immigration vote in lame-duck Congress*

By Stephen Dinan
-
The Washington Times
10:57 a.m., Sunday, October 31, 2010

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid this weekend promised to force the Senate to vote on an immigration bill, the Dream Act, in a lame-duck session of Congress next month.
Reid vows immigration vote in lame-duck Congress - Washington Times


*Haven't we been there and done that many time before? Why don't Read just by-pass  all this crap, Dream Act and Immigration Reform and border security and go straight to Amnesty with Chain Migration.
Reid is like a diaper rash. Irritating and keep coming back.*


----------



## Trajan

hello capt. smith..........this is a naked political play,  nothing more, to drive one more wedge and play identity politics with peoples lives/feelings, they are just tools. Exactly why a scumbag like this needed to go down...I hope his spptters are proud of him.....lets see how many dems he gets to go along with the plunge to the bottom....the 2012 race started last night at midnight.


----------



## Meister

LilOlLady said:


> * Reid vows immigration vote in lame-duck Congress*
> 
> By Stephen Dinan
> -
> The Washington Times
> 10:57 a.m., Sunday, October 31, 2010
> 
> Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid this weekend promised to force the Senate to vote on an immigration bill, the Dream Act, in a lame-duck session of Congress next month.
> Reid vows immigration vote in lame-duck Congress - Washington Times
> 
> 
> *Haven't we been there and done that many time before? Why don't Read just by-pass  all this crap, Dream Act and Immigration Reform and border security and go straight to Amnesty with Chain Migration.
> Reid is like a diaper rash. Irritating and keep coming back.*



This doesn't surprise me.  The dems got their butt kicked royally for the way they were pushing the agenda on the Americans, now it's like he's too stupid to even understand just what happened.  I doubt there is enough time to push it through because they no longer have  60 in the Senate, and it will get hung up until the new Senate gets in.  I also doubt that the dem Senators that did survived last night are really all that keen on ramming something through such as that, along with the ones that are looking for re election in the next election, after seeing what went down.


----------



## Sarah G

LilOlLady said:


> * Reid vows immigration vote in lame-duck Congress*
> 
> By Stephen Dinan
> -
> The Washington Times
> 10:57 a.m., Sunday, October 31, 2010
> 
> Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid this weekend promised to force the Senate to vote on an immigration bill, the Dream Act, in a lame-duck session of Congress next month.
> Reid vows immigration vote in lame-duck Congress - Washington Times
> 
> 
> *Haven't we been there and done that many time before? Why don't Read just by-pass  all this crap, Dream Act and Immigration Reform and border security and go straight to Amnesty with Chain Migration.
> Reid is like a diaper rash. Irritating and keep coming back.*



Washington Times..


----------



## Trajan

Sarah G said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Reid vows immigration vote in lame-duck Congress*
> 
> By Stephen Dinan
> -
> The Washington Times
> 10:57 a.m., Sunday, October 31, 2010
> 
> Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid this weekend promised to force the Senate to vote on an immigration bill, the Dream Act, in a lame-duck session of Congress next month.
> Reid vows immigration vote in lame-duck Congress - Washington Times
> 
> 
> *Haven't we been there and done that many time before? Why don't Read just by-pass  all this crap, Dream Act and Immigration Reform and border security and go straight to Amnesty with Chain Migration.
> Reid is like a diaper rash. Irritating and keep coming back.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Washington Times..
Click to expand...


and?


----------



## Trajan

oh and since dirty harry is on his jihad......nancy has no regrets....hey cannon fodder be damned eh?

_House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said today she has "no regrets" one day after a Republican landslide stripped her of the power that defined her historic tenure as the first female Speaker of the House.

The California Democrat, who won a new two year term in Tuesday's election, also said she has yet to consider what she will do now.

"I'll have a conversation with my caucus, I'll have a conversation with my family, and pray over it, and decide how to go forward," she said in an exclusive ABC News interview with "World News" anchor Diane Sawyer. "But today isn't that day." _

Exclusive House Speaker Nancy Pelosi Interview With Diane Sawyer - ABC News



why yes of course, she'll pray....


----------



## WillowTree

Meister said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Reid vows immigration vote in lame-duck Congress*
> 
> By Stephen Dinan
> -
> The Washington Times
> 10:57 a.m., Sunday, October 31, 2010
> 
> Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid this weekend promised to force the Senate to vote on an immigration bill, the Dream Act, in a lame-duck session of Congress next month.
> Reid vows immigration vote in lame-duck Congress - Washington Times
> 
> *Haven't we been there and done that many time before? Why don't Read just by-pass  all this crap, Dream Act and Immigration Reform and border security and go straight to Amnesty with Chain Migration.
> Reid is like a diaper rash. Irritating and keep coming back.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This doesn't surprise me.  The dems got their butt kicked royally for the way they were pushing the agenda on the Americans, now it's like he's too stupid to even understand just what happened.  I doubt there is enough time to push it through because they no longer have  60 in the Senate, and it will get hung up until the new Senate gets in.  I also doubt that the dem Senators that did survived last night are really all that keen on ramming something through such as that, along with the ones that are looking for re election in the next election, after seeing what went down.
Click to expand...








He's not that stupid. That's how he got the hispanic vote. Bribery. But, I still believe in Karma.


----------



## Angelhair

_CA and H. Reid will be the cause for the demise of the USA as we know it._


----------



## LilOlLady

*A Place to Call Home: 
What Immigrants Say Now About Life in America*
By Scott Bittle and Jonathan Rochkind, with Amber Ott and Paul Gasbarra
Prepared with support from the Carnegie Corporation of New York

Congress and the Bush administration tried to reform immigration policy in 2006, and failed. A year later, they tried again, with no more success. Now President Barack Obama and congressional leaders say they'll try once more. Political leaders are speaking of it in just those terms:* one last chance, one last try.*
"We've got one more chance to do this," said Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., after a White House meeting in June. *"If we fail this time around, no politician is going to take this up in a generation."*

Another truth is that if we're going to overhaul immigration policy, it only makes sense to listen to the *people who will be most affected *by it: *immigrants.*

A Place to Call Home: What Immigrants Say Now About Life in America | Public Agenda


----------



## WillowTree

A place called STOLEN home. Get real asswipe. STOLEN home, stolen identity, STOLEN treasure. You suck.


----------



## William Joyce

LilOlLady said:


> Another truth is that if we're going to overhaul immigration policy, it only makes sense to listen to the *people who will be most affected *by it: *immigrants.*



Right... never mind how it affects AMERICANS.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Nevada high in foreign births*
By Steve Timko  stimko@rgj.com  November 8, 2010 
About one out of every four children born in Nevada recently were to mothers who were not U.S. citizens, the second-highest rate in the nation, according to a U.S. Census Bureau report released Thursday.
&#65532;
The data, collected as part of the Census Bureau's ongoing American Community Survey, did not distinguish between noncitizen mothers who were here legally or illegally.
The American Community Survey sends questionnaires to households in every state every year to get a demographic snapshot. This data was from the 2008 ACS and asks participants if they had children in the prior 12 months. The estimates said 26.3 percent of the children born in Nevada were to mothers who were not U.S. citizens. California ranked first at 29.1 percent.
The figures did not surprise Mary Ann Robinson, coordinator of the Washoe County School District's English Language Learner department.
The school district has 11,243 students in its English Language Learner program, and 75 percent of them were born in the United States, Robinson said.
To make sure it can communicate with all of the parents of its students it translates letters, it is required to send home into several languages.
Many schools have bilingual clerks and parent facilitators who are bilingual. There are also bilingual aides in classrooms, and if needed, the school can hire translators so school staff can talk with parents, Robinson said.
"We do everything we can to communicate with parents to make sure that they know where their children are academically and what support we're providing for them," Robinson said.
Nevada Hospital Association president and chief executive officer Bill Welch said that historically, noncitizens are less likely to have health insurance. That puts financial strain on Nevada's hospitals because when they show up to give birth, the hospitals will deliver the babies even if payment is not guaranteed, Welch said.
In the past 18 months four Nevada hospitals, all based in Southern Nevada, closed their obstetrics services.
"We have other hospitals evaluating their OB services at this time based on the number of uninsured and underinsured patients presenting to deliver babies," Welch said.

Nineteen out of 33 Nevada hospitals are losing money -- the average Silver State hospital had an operating loss of 2.71 percent -- and obstetrics is almost always a money loser, he said.
"OB already tends to be a loss leader for most hospitals," Welch said. "What is collected in payments for services is typically less than what it us to operate that department."
Hospitals have cut costs where they can and shifted the costs of some money-losing services into areas where other patients can make up the difference, he said. The last option is to reduce or cut services.
Bob Fulkerson, executive director of the Progressive Leadership Alliance of Nevada, said it is important not to scapegoat noncitizens for problems.
"This is a prime example of why Congress needs to pass immigration reform, so that noncitizens can become citizens," Fulkerson said. "It shows the failure to act nationally is having a profound effect at the community level."
Noncitizens are also taxpayers, Fulkerson said.
"They pay their sales taxes when they buy everything else here," he said. "They pay property tax through their landlord or through the homes they own. They are paying into the system. Let's not blame them for national immigration problems."
They also boost the economy, he said.
"Without a robust immigrant population, Nevada's economy would be much, much worse, and that's borne out by studies from the Wall Street Journal and universities through out the country," Fulkerson said. "Immigrants, both citizens and noncitizens, have an overwhelmingly positive effect on our economy."
Nevada high in foreign births | rgj.com | The Reno Gazette-Journal
*

Comprehensive Immigration Reform is nothing more than chain migration. Needed so non-citizens can become citizens as if they will have less babies if the become citizens. They will still be low wage earners, pay very little in taxes, if any and eligible for welfare benefits via the taxpayers. Then the families they will be able to bring into the country. Elderly parents who never paid into the system added to the system. Fulkersons solution is to make a big problem bigger. What part of this article do Fulkerson not understand.*


----------



## LilOlLady

*Arizona cops bust illegal immigrant smuggling ring*
 | Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:09pm EST 

(Reuters) - Arizona police on Wednesday arrested 12 people accused of operating a smuggling ring that brought thousands of illegal immigrants from Central and South America using large cargo vans.
The smugglers used large cargo vans and other vehicles to run illegal immigrants *from the Mexico border *to the Phoenix valley, from where they were *moved across the United States*Arizona cops bust illegal immigrant smuggling ring | Reuters



After *a year long investigation *they only arrested *11 people* and 3 of them were juveniles?
And thousands of illegals are roaming freeling throughout the country? They had already crossed the border and this seem like a waste of time. And they call it a bust? With or without smugglers, they will get here.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Supreme Court Overturns Illegal Immigrants ID Theft Conviction * 05/04/2009 

The Supreme Court has unanimously ruled that an illegal immigrant who used stolen documents to work is not guilty of identity theft because he didnt know the information belonged to another person. 

The ruling eliminates an important tool for prosecuting and deporting illegal aliens who victimize Americans by stealing their identities to get jobs in this country. In its 18-page decision the court says that the crime of identity theft is limited to those who actually know they stole someone else's information

Supreme Court Overturns Illegal Immigrant?s ID Theft Conviction | Judicial Watch


----------



## LilOlLady

*Florida judge tells illegal aliens who raped 12 yr old, 
"You are not worthy of being buried in USA" *

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgYG45EvpP8[/ame]


----------



## Mini 14

I may write in "Walter Komanski" on my 2012 ballot.

Fitting and just sentence.


----------



## Angelhair

LilOlLady said:


> *Supreme Court Overturns Illegal Immigrants ID Theft Conviction * 05/04/2009
> 
> The Supreme Court has unanimously ruled that an illegal immigrant who used stolen documents to work is not guilty of identity theft because he didnt know the information belonged to another person.
> 
> The ruling eliminates an important tool for prosecuting and deporting illegal aliens who victimize Americans by stealing their identities to get jobs in this country. In its 18-page decision the court says that the crime of identity theft is limited to those who actually know they stole someone else's information
> 
> Supreme Court Overturns Illegal Immigrant?s ID Theft Conviction | Judicial Watch



_Now this is funny if it was not so tragic!  Does the SCOTUS really think that these thieves did not know they stole someone else's ID???  Well, let's see what they think when one of THEIR loved one has to go through the hell one goes through trying to unravel the mess that this causes in a person's life!!!!  It literally destroys lives.  And these thieves now will continue to steal since now they are deemed above the law.  Congrats SCOTUS!!!_


----------



## LilOlLady

When the *Immigration Reform and Control Act* was passed in 1986, it was only meant to be a *one time *amnesty. However, in actuality,  many amnesties have followed that legislation. To date there have been additional amnesties that have been granted to illegal immigrants which include: 


1.Immigration and Reform Control Act (IRCA), 1986: A blanket amnesty for some 2.8 million illegal aliens.

2.Section 245(i) Amnesty, 1994: A temporary rolling amnesty for 578,000 illegal aliens.

3.Section 245(i) Extension Amnesty, 1997: An extension of the rolling amnesty created in 1994.

4.Nicaraguan Adjustment and Central American Relief Act (NACARA) Amnesty, 1997: An amnesty for close to one million illegal aliens from Central America.

5.Haitian Refugee Immigration Fairness Act Amnesty (HRIFA), 1998: An amnesty for 125,000 illegal aliens from Haiti.

6.Late Amnesty, 2000: An amnesty for some illegal aliens who claim they should have been amnestied under the 1986 IRCA amnesty, an estimated 400,000 illegal aliens.

7.LIFE Act Amnesty, 2000: A reinstatement of the rolling Section 245(i) amnesty, an estimated 900,000 illegal aliens

8.The are currently several bills in the United States Congress that could possibly create an 8th Amnesty.

Each amnesty legislation has been on a different scale, some granting amnesty to as little as 125,000 illegal immigrants while others have granted amnesty to almost 1 million illegal immigrants. Recently, there were plans to introduce amnesty legislation that would have affected  the approximately 12 million illegal immigrants residing in the United States. Critics of immigration amnesty claim that an amnesty would entice an even greater number of illegal migrants, since they would be hopeful that amnesty would eventually grant them permanent resident status in the United States. 

Immigration Amnesty for illegal Immigrants


----------



## LilOlLady

&#8220;&#8212; *Using false documents to be employed:* A maximum penalty of 10 years without parole in federal prison and a fine up to $250,000. 
&#8212; *Making a false statement on an I-9:* A maximum penalty of 5 years in federal prison without parole and a fine up to $250,000. 
&#8212; *Misusing a Social Security number:* A maximum penalty of 5 years in federal prison without parole and a fine up to $250,000. 
&#8212; *Making a false claim of resident alien status*: A maximum penalty of 5 years in federal prison without parole and a fine up to $250,000. 
&#8212; *Using false documents with intent to defraud the United States*: A maximum penalty of 15 years in federal prison without parole and a fine up to $250,000. 
&#8212;* Possession of false United States documents*: A maximum penalty of 15 years in federal prison without parole and a fine up to $250,000. 
&#8212; *Aggravated identity theft:* A mandatory penalty of 2 years in federal prison to run consecutively to any other sentence, and a fine up to $250,000.&#8221;&#8221; 

Every illegal aliens in this country has committed a crime. Even if the document does not belong to someone else, using false documents is a crime with punishment.


----------



## Madeline

The decision apparently came down in May of 2009, LilOlLady and I cannot find a copy of it to read.  I'm going out on a limb here and say the laws need to be rewritten.  Criminal statutes require intent, and I cannot intend to deprive you of your identity if I dun even know that you exist, as in, the documents I use could be wholly fictious.

Legislators will need to alter the language to read "guilty if known by the defendant's not to be the his" and drop the claim that a defendant specifically intended harm to the legitimate holder of the identification.

Assuming this is true, are there any efforts underway to rewrite these laws?


----------



## Nate

With the way this country's been going I'm suprised the police involved in the task force weren't arrested for profiling or for denying the coyote's rights to make a buck....


----------



## LilOlLady

*INCREMENTAL  AMNESTY* 

Item: The Wall Street Journal for October 8 reported that President Obama is likely to scale back his legislative plans next year, citing immigration reform as an example. White House officials have indicated &#8220;a willingness to push through *piecemeal changes *to immigration law, instead of a comprehensive bill that combines border controls and immigration law enforcement with *a path to citizenship *for many of the 11 million illegal immigrants already in the country.&#8221;

The Journal continued: &#8220;Under the *incremental scenario*, the White House would embrace Republican proposals to *step up immigration law enforcement and border and port security* in exchange for measures such as the DREAM Act, which would give illegal immigrant children a path to citizenship through *military or public service*. White House officials could add an agricultural-workers program to that bill but put off **Incremental Amnesty

*
The Dream Act would deal with the &#8220;bulk&#8221; of illegal immigration. It will be an excuse to give amnesty to the parents via the Dream Act and Anchor Babies.  Cannot deport the parents and leave the children and separate families? Instead of a Path to Citizenship, it would be blind amnesty and democrat dirty politics. Dirty Harry tried to sneak the Dream Act into the defense bill.*


----------



## LilOlLady

LADY LIBERTY IS NOT CALLING MEXICANS

Mexicans are not; "tired, poor, huddled masses yearning to breathe free, wretched refuse of your teeming shore, homeless and tempest-tost. Ever seen  a skinny, big belly malnutrition looking Mexican running across the border? Those that are caught is because they are too fat to run and in designer shoes and clothes. 
They do not come for a life but for a better life and they could make a better life for all of Mexico if they stayed home and worked as hard there as they do to stay here. Even crime is more lucrative here than in Mexico and they turn to crime when they cannot find work. Like we need more criminals. 
They dont come because they are homeless and starving but for the better life, life we have worked so hard to build for us and the future of our children. They are taking my dream away by taking jobs and lowering wages. 
I use illegals from Mexico because they are the majority of illegals in this country.
Moonbattery: How Many Illegals?

 senses.


----------



## LilOlLady

MEXICO NEED ITS YOUNG.

We do not need Mexicos young and strong in our workforce or our military to fight for our freedom and the threat of terrorism. But Mexico needs its young men and women to fight a real threat that is killing their people and a real threat to the freedom for Mexico. Mexico is at war with drug cartels. Mexico also need a young, strong work force to build a strong economy for Mexico and to keep its people home. And a strong military to win the war against drug cartels.
We are doing a great harm to the future of Mexico by allowing uncontrolled migration of its people.
Comprehensive Immigration Reform is a nation destroyer. A bigger threat to Mexico then the drug cartels. Mexico needs man power worse than they need money and we have their man power. 10 million at least who are Mexicos future. 
Educate their children but then send them home to benefit Mexico. A strong Mexico means a strong America. By destroying Mexico, we are destroying ourselves. Isnt that what Obama said on his last trip? Our economy depend on a strong economy world wide? We need to help Mexico by sending it people home and amnesty for its people will destroy Mexico. Amnesty for illegal aliens is not only wrong but immoral.
Mexicos future in not in our workforce or our military. We are letting future votes and cheap labor for corporations that are big campaign contributors blind our senses.


----------



## Nosmo King

God shed His grace on thee.


----------



## LilOlLady

*
Feinstein seeks to block Steve Li's deportation*
Jessica Kwong, Chronicle Staff Writer

 (11-14) 16:03 PST SAN FRANCISCO -- Sen. Dianne Feinstein has asked immigration authorities to halt the deportation of City College of San Francisco nursing student Steve "Shing Ma" Li *while she considers introducing a bill that would allow him to stay in the United States temporarily,* her office said Sunday.

Feinstein seeks to block Steve Li's deportation

_His excuse to stay is the same of sad story which don't fly. "I've been here since I was a child and don't have any family or firend in Peru" You cannot make friends? I have been in Reno for 40 years and have no family here?_

_It is a classic example for enforcement, not Comprehensive Immigration Reform_


----------



## LilOlLady

I don't understand this at all. We pay 6,000 ice agent whose jobs is to find, arrest and deport those in the country illegally and we have people like Fienstein who is blocking every deportation they can. There is no statue of limitations of illegal immigration that I know of. We pay them to do a job and then turn around and block them when they do their job?


----------



## MajinLink

Mexico doesn't really need it's people to come back. It needs to stop it's corruption from internal matters. 
We need to improve barriers to prevent new people from coming in, but I refuse to treat the ones that are currently here like monsters. The United States have provided a welcome home to those who were affected by war, dictatorships, and communism, and yet we have a "send them back on a bus" mentality when they come from a country that is just poor.


----------



## NewC

Who else will watch my children?


----------



## MajinLink

Poor college students


----------



## NewC

I don't want a bunch of kids struggling to get their useless piece of paper watching my baby.


----------



## MajinLink

Fair enough


----------



## Nate

MajinLink said:


> Mexico doesn't really need it's people to come back. It needs to stop it's corruption from internal matters.
> We need to improve barriers to prevent new people from coming in, but I refuse to treat the ones that are currently here like monsters. The United States have provided a welcome home to those who were affected by war, dictatorships, and communism, and yet we have a "send them back on a bus" mentality when they come from a country that is just poor.



And how do you expect the corruption to be fought if Mexico's young and able bodied are over here? So do we just roll over and let them in because their country is facing a serious war between the cartels and government?


----------



## DrSporK

So what you're saying is we should first invest in educating illegal mexicans and then give up our investment by returning them to mexico? A better idea would be to just deport the illegals and return the money we save back to the taxpayer via taxcuts.

-SporK


----------



## LilOlLady

Immigration Reform: *What Will The Dream Act Cost Americans *By Stephanie Robins on September 15, 2010, 9:37 am Posted in Finance News 

The astronomical costs to the Dream Act have been estimated above *$20 billion in the first two years alone*. This disaster in the making comes at a time when the US economy has stretched so many millions of Americans so thin that their connection with the economy has become irrevocably broken. The Dream Act is simply another example of the hundreds of misguided policies that have plagued the United States from the beginning of the century.

*LINK:*Immigration Reform: What Will The Dream Act Cost Americans

*Is the Dream Act a Earmark?*

*Is Compehensive Immigration Reform an Earmark?*


----------



## Tank

LilOlLady said:


> What Will The Dream Act Cost Americans


America


----------



## LilOlLady

*Legalization Would Have Financial And Social Benefits*
The legalization of illegal immigrants would lead to some improvements in governmental programs. Many states are required to treat illegal immigrants with medical problems without payment. The states and their taxpayers, then, foot the bill. This sort of policy has helped to bankrupt states like California. But legalizing illegal immigrants would help reduce such instances. *Once legalized, immigrants would become responsible for their own medical care.* LOL

LINK:
Immigration Reform: DREAM Act Could Solve Social Problems At A Cost | U.S. Financial Post

Illegal aliens are *low income earners *and pay little or no taxes and would qualify for social services. Medicaid, food stamps and public or low income housing. Section 8. Adding them on to Obamacare would be astronomical in cost.


----------



## uscitizen

A repeat of what Reagan did?


----------



## Revere

No, we should learn from that mistake.


----------



## LilOlLady

*The Economics of Immigration Enforcement
Assessing the costs and benefits of mass deportation *by Edwin S. Rubinstein
Research from
The National Policy Institute
All NPI publications can be found at:
Welcome to the NPI E-Bookstore | National Policy Institute

Rep. Tom Tancredo (R.&#8211;CO) called the study &#8220;an interesting intellectual exercise&#8221; that is &#8220;useless&#8230;because no one&#8217;s talking about&#8221; *mass deportation*. Rather than deport individuals he would impose *fines *and impose sanctions on employers who employ illegals&#8212;something the government has stubbornly refused to do.

The Economics of Immigration Enforcement | National Policy Institute

Enforcement of our immigration laws against business would generate *revenue from fines *and result in* cost saving self deportation*.  Deportation could generate revenue instead of costing Americans.


----------



## WillowTree

uscitizen said:


> a repeat of what reagan did?



x10


----------



## Iowa10000

Congressman King from Iowa I have to say is another example of a (do nothing) politician who has never done much of anything to help in any way except to bitch for political purposes.
I just hear him say that over 4 million (11,000+) a day come accross the border illegally.  Yet I look on the govt site of accountability that says that the population of illegals increased 550,000.  Now this is too many as far as I am concerned but I ask why does King have to LIE.
I just listen to more of his garbage and being from Iowa, this guy is an IDIOT and a revisionest exceptionor.
My God do you republicans think you will ever do anything to better the country other than try and make people believe not what happened but what their opiions say happened where they say things that have been proven to be false should now be looked at as being true because they say so.
KING u r a NUT.


----------



## Bullfighter

*IMMIGRATION REFORM*
*THAT EVEN MEXICANS *
*WILL UNDERSTAND!*​


----------



## William Joyce

Iowa10000 said:


> Congressman King from Iowa I have to say is another example of a (do nothing) politician who has never done much of anything to help in any way except to bitch for political purposes.
> I just hear him say that over 4 million (11,000+) a day come accross the border illegally.  Yet I look on the govt site of accountability that says that the population of illegals increased 550,000.  Now this is too many as far as I am concerned but I ask why does King have to LIE.
> I just listen to more of his garbage and being from Iowa, this guy is an IDIOT and a revisionest exceptionor.
> My God do you republicans think you will ever do anything to better the country other than try and make people believe not what happened but what their opiions say happened where they say things that have been proven to be false should now be looked at as being true because they say so.
> KING u r a NUT.



Steve King is one of about four members of Congress worth saving.  The voters in Iowa obviously don't see it the way you do.  Good!


----------



## LilOlLady

*'Birthright citizenship' will be target of House GOP majority*


By Rob Hotakainen | McClatchy Newspapers
WASHINGTON  As one of its first acts, the new Congress will consider denying citizenship to the children of illegal immigrants who are born in the United States.

Those children, who are now automatically granted citizenship at birth, will be one of the first targets of the Republican-led House when it convenes in January.


*LINK;*

'Birthright citizenship' will be target of House GOP majority - Patriotic Resistance


----------



## jillian

The rightwingnut loons can "consider" anything they want to in order to toss red meat to their "base" of xenophobes....

But they aren't getting a constitutional amendment. So they can waste time shrieking about it, or they can actually do something.


----------



## Article 15

LilOlLady said:


> *'Birthright citizenship' will be target of House GOP majority*
> 
> 
> By Rob Hotakainen | McClatchy Newspapers
> WASHINGTON &#8212; As one of its first acts, the new Congress will consider denying citizenship to the children of illegal immigrants who are born in the United States.
> 
> Those children, who are now automatically granted citizenship at birth, will be one of the first targets of the Republican-led House when it convenes in January.
> 
> 
> *LINK;*
> 
> 'Birthright citizenship' will be target of House GOP majority - Patriotic Resistance



Wouldn't they need a full fledged Constitutional Amendment to do such a thing?


----------



## LilOlLady

*Immigrant Rights Activists Defend 14th Amendment*
New America Media, News Report, Deirdre Ruscitti ,Aug 05, 2010 

Changing the rules of citizenship would not only change the rules for the children of immigrants, but also for the children of citizens, notes Margaret Stock, an attorney who works with the Immigration Policy Center. If the 14th Amendment were revoked, a U.S. birth certificate would no longer be sufficient proof of citizenship, so every child would have to go through a lengthy bureaucratic process to show that they meet all the requirements of citizenship. *Such a change could cost billions of dollars.*
&#8220;Before we change the rules, we need to do a *cost-benefit analysis *here,&#8221; said Stock. &#8220;There&#8217;s absolutely no attention being paid to the practicality.&#8221; 



*LINK*
Immigrant Rights Activists Defend 14th Amendment - New America Media


----------



## Article 15

jillian said:


> The rightwingnut loons can "consider" anything they want to in order to toss red meat to their "base" of xenophobes....
> 
> But they aren't getting a constitutional amendment. So they can waste time shrieking about it, or they can actually do something.



And there's my answer ...


----------



## jillian

Article 15 said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> The rightwingnut loons can "consider" anything they want to in order to toss red meat to their "base" of xenophobes....
> 
> But they aren't getting a constitutional amendment. So they can waste time shrieking about it, or they can actually do something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And there's my answer ...
Click to expand...


bazinga!


----------



## LilOlLady

Activist are always citing the *cost to taxpayers *and not the *savings to taxpayers *if this is amemded and dream act is not passes and immigraiton laws are enforced.
Changing the 14th amendment would also change the way women immigrated to this country. They do get help for their children in Mexico, but not all the freebies they get here. Freebies all american children born here get and will not change.
Congress has been granted the power to amend the 14th amendment.


----------



## Intense

I think the first issue here is relevance. I'm sure there are valid arguments on both sides of the issue. In the end, where the Government serves the will of the People, it is for the People to decide, one way or the other, and for Government to comply. Shouldn't your first concern be arguing the merits of your argument, rather than trying to discredit a sincere concern? Shouldn't we All be sincerely considering the matter, rather than obstructing and demonizing the process? Could we not trust, that in the end, one way or the other, reason will prevail?


----------



## jillian

Intense said:


> I think the first issue here is relevance. I'm sure there are valid arguments on both sides of the issue. In the end, where the Government serves the will of the People, it is for the People to decide, one way or the other, and for Government to comply. Shouldn't your first concern be arguing the merits of your argument, rather than trying to discredit a sincere concern? Shouldn't we All be sincerely considering the matter, rather than obstructing and demonizing the process? Could we not trust, that in the end, one way or the other, reason will prevail?



once again, the point of the constitution is to protect us from the whims of the majority.

the torch and pitchfork crowd is always going to periodically get into a tizzy.


----------



## Intense

jillian said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the first issue here is relevance. I'm sure there are valid arguments on both sides of the issue. In the end, where the Government serves the will of the People, it is for the People to decide, one way or the other, and for Government to comply. Shouldn't your first concern be arguing the merits of your argument, rather than trying to discredit a sincere concern? Shouldn't we All be sincerely considering the matter, rather than obstructing and demonizing the process? Could we not trust, that in the end, one way or the other, reason will prevail?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> once again, the point of the constitution is to protect us from the whims of the majority.
> 
> the torch and pitchfork crowd is always going to periodically get into a tizzy.
Click to expand...


No, actually it is not. It is the Foundation of Natural Law which Establishes, and gives both Authority, and Limit, to The Federal Government. Through that Jurisdiction, that Power and It's limits, translate to the State and Local Governments.

The whims of the majority, are  usually either the result of good information or manipulation and misinformation, you get to choose, how you participate. 

The Process involves 2/3 of Congress or the States bringing it up for consideration, but you know that. It requires a Super Majority of 3/4 of Congress or The States to Ratify an Amendment, But you know that too. Why is it your or my place to deny Due Process, to obstruct? How is this Federalism, and not Totalitarianism or Oligarchy? 

If what you propose with the Courts being the Final Authority Every Time in Every Case, why even have Elections at all? Why have a Congress? To do the bidding of unelected Magistrates? I prefer the Federalist Structure of Three Equal Branches of Government, Each with an Integral Role. I denounce the obstruction of the Process.


----------



## slackjawed

It is disappointing, to say the least, to watch our so-called leaders take such actions. In my opinion, this is a great disservice to our country.

We have problems concerning illegal immigration that are seemingly within the grasp of our elected officials in congress to solve. The thing is, attacking decent people that have come to this country for a better life, just as most of our ancestors did, is not going to achieve that end. 

If our so-called leaders would cease the hyper-partisanship and actually do the job they were elected to do, this problem would be solved.


I suggest, as a first step, that we instruct our elected officials create legislation that would offer a clear, affordable and legal path to citizenship for those who's only crime has been to cross an imaginary line without permission. This would create a situation where the only ones entering the country illegally would actually be criminals. That would make the job our border patrol and law enforcement do much easier to perform. There would be less people crossing illegally and those that were would likely be drug smugglers and criminals of other stripes. 

To continue the hyper-partisan lunacy serves only to leave the issue unaddressed. 

We need taxpayers, that's what citizens do. Passing a constitutional amendment banning birthright citizenship, and continuing the failed policies of becoming a citizen chases away those who would otherwise pay taxes and be productive citizens. 
This proposal just points to a chronic laziness and dishonesty on the part of our so-called leaders. Attacking families that are not likely to shoot at you is easier than chasing drug runners and other criminals who will.


----------



## Sallow

Intense said:


> I think the first issue here is relevance. I'm sure there are valid arguments on both sides of the issue. In the end, where the Government serves the will of the People, it is for the People to decide, one way or the other, and for Government to comply. Shouldn't your first concern be arguing the merits of your argument, rather than trying to discredit a sincere concern? Shouldn't we All be sincerely considering the matter, rather than obstructing and demonizing the process? Could we not trust, that in the end, one way or the other, reason will prevail?



There is no real argument for getting rid of birthright citizenship.

It's a wedge issue meant to appeal to the lessor angels of people's psyche.


----------



## LilOlLady

slackjawed said:


> It is disappointing, to say the least, to watch our so-called leaders take such actions. In my opinion, this is a great disservice to our country.
> 
> We have problems concerning illegal immigration that are seemingly within the grasp of our elected officials in congress to solve. The thing is, attacking decent people that have come to this country for a better life, just as most of our ancestors did, is not going to achieve that end.
> 
> If our so-called leaders would cease the hyper-partisanship and actually do the job they were elected to do, this problem would be solved.
> 
> 
> I suggest, as a first step, that we instruct our elected officials create legislation that would offer a clear, affordable and legal path to citizenship for those who's only crime has been to cross an imaginary line without permission. This would create a situation where the only ones entering the country illegally would actually be criminals. That would make the job our border patrol and law enforcement do much easier to perform. There would be less people crossing illegally and those that were would likely be drug smugglers and criminals of other stripes.
> 
> To continue the hyper-partisan lunacy serves only to leave the issue unaddressed.
> 
> *We need taxpayers*, that's what citizens do. Passing a constitutional amendment banning birthright citizenship, and continuing the failed policies of becoming a citizen chases away those who would otherwise pay taxes and be productive citizens.
> This proposal just points to a chronic laziness and dishonesty on the part of our so-called leaders. *Attacking families *that are not likely to shoot at you is easier than chasing drug runners and other criminals who will.



How much taxes does a low wage earner pay. Very little of none and their children receive all the benefits as any US citizen at the expense of those who do pay taxes. How may families have at least one gang member? How many anchor babies are gang member and is our prisons? Makes on sense to import more poverty. Lets educate our own and see what happens. or has that not worked out?
There is no promise they will be productive tax paying citizerns? You are in deep denial.


----------



## LilOlLady

There is no way ever we will be able to control illegal immigration without repealing the automatic birthright citizenship for children of illegal aliens. Deportation of parents is almost impossible now. That's not controlling immigraiton. Most of our illegal immigraiton problems hangs on the 14th.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Children feel like outsiders,* have trouble mastering language, assignments

April 12, 2009|By Oscar Avila, Tribune correspondentZINAPECUARO, Mexico &#8212; Juan Maldonado is suffering the same culture shock as many other children of Mexican immigrants: He's out of place at school and hasn't mastered the language.

The difference? The U.S.-born Maldonado feels like an outsider in Mexico.

With their job prospects bleak and worried about bad influences on the street, Maldonado's parents sent the 15-year-old back from West Chicago to this central Mexican town last fall. Almost immediately, he was fighting with classmates who mocked his accented Spanish. He could barely read or write in the language, so his homework was impossible.

*LINK:*Mexican immigrants: U.S.-born students struggle after returning to school in homeland - Chicago Tribune

*When I first read this, I thougt I was reading about children of illegal aliens brought here across the border illegally and anchor babies.*


----------



## LilOlLady

*How automatic birthright citizenship separate families and must be repealed. Many illegal aliens cross the border with their children and some leave them behind for years and usually start another family.*

*Suffer the little immigrant children*
By Anthea Butler
University of Pennsylvania and Patheos.com
The First Lady's recent encounter with a young girl who admitted that her mother is an illegal immigrant crystallized in an instant the Solomonic proportions of the immigration issue that faces our nation. How will immigration laws like Arizona's HB1070 affect families, specifically children? In this charged atmosphere, loving one's neighbor as oneself, a biblical admonition, only works if your neighbor has all of the paperwork proving their U.S. citizenship in order. The shock is beginning to wear off from the passage of the immigration bill, but I predict those who will bear the psychological toll of this political maneuvering are children, whose frayed nerves will fear that their parents might be taken away from them. Consider the interview held with the young girl after meeting the First Lady, in which she states, "I'm a big girl and I don't want to be left with nothing. I could almost die." Many illegal immigrants face separation from families in other countries, and for children born in this country to illegal parents, the specter of parents being taken away by ICE is an ever-present fear. The new boogeyman, it seems, does not live under the bed or in the closet, but is a state-sanctioned monster ready to pounce, rising from the sands of the Arizona desert. 


*LINK:*Patheos/On Faith: Suffer the little immigrant children - On Faith at washingtonpost.com


----------



## topspin

It's posturing to the redneck GED base. Republicans are too spineless to deal with the real illegals so they fuck with AMERICAN CITIZENS!!! FUCK THAT and the wife beater wearing rednecks who want it.


----------



## Angelhair

_This birthright perk has got to go.  It only serves to bring in the poor from other countries, drop their babies here and immediately qualify for all the resources put in place for the poor here who are citizens.  These babies then are deemed citizens and are entitled to everything this country has to offer.  Somehow that does not seem fair to those here who have to pay those astronomical taxes that the poor don't pay and who via their birthright babies qualify for the freebies._


----------



## Sallow

It's not a "perk". It is a part of the United States Constitution.



> Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868. Note History
> 
> 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


----------



## topspin

There are 20,000,000 non citizens we could deport. Why do you knuckle dragging GED's want to fuck with American Citizens?


----------



## Intense

Sallow said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the first issue here is relevance. I'm sure there are valid arguments on both sides of the issue. In the end, where the Government serves the will of the People, it is for the People to decide, one way or the other, and for Government to comply. Shouldn't your first concern be arguing the merits of your argument, rather than trying to discredit a sincere concern? Shouldn't we All be sincerely considering the matter, rather than obstructing and demonizing the process? Could we not trust, that in the end, one way or the other, reason will prevail?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no real argument for getting rid of birthright citizenship.
> 
> It's a wedge issue meant to appeal to the lessor angels of people's psyche.
Click to expand...


Who died and anointed you Supreme Leader?   

Thanks for the laugh.


----------



## slackjawed

LilOlLady said:


> slackjawed said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is disappointing, to say the least, to watch our so-called leaders take such actions. In my opinion, this is a great disservice to our country.
> 
> We have problems concerning illegal immigration that are seemingly within the grasp of our elected officials in congress to solve. The thing is, attacking decent people that have come to this country for a better life, just as most of our ancestors did, is not going to achieve that end.
> 
> If our so-called leaders would cease the hyper-partisanship and actually do the job they were elected to do, this problem would be solved.
> 
> 
> I suggest, as a first step, that we instruct our elected officials create legislation that would offer a clear, affordable and legal path to citizenship for those who's only crime has been to cross an imaginary line without permission. This would create a situation where the only ones entering the country illegally would actually be criminals. That would make the job our border patrol and law enforcement do much easier to perform. There would be less people crossing illegally and those that were would likely be drug smugglers and criminals of other stripes.
> 
> To continue the hyper-partisan lunacy serves only to leave the issue unaddressed.
> 
> *We need taxpayers*, that's what citizens do. Passing a constitutional amendment banning birthright citizenship, and continuing the failed policies of becoming a citizen chases away those who would otherwise pay taxes and be productive citizens.
> This proposal just points to a chronic laziness and dishonesty on the part of our so-called leaders. *Attacking families *that are not likely to shoot at you is easier than chasing drug runners and other criminals who will.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How much taxes does a low wage earner pay. Very little of none and their children receive all the benefits as any US citizen at the expense of those who do pay taxes. How may families have at least one gang member? How many anchor babies are gang member and is our prisons? Makes on sense to import more poverty. Lets educate our own and see what happens. or has that not worked out?
> There is no promise they will be productive tax paying citizerns? You are in deep denial.
Click to expand...


I don't know about where you live, but where I live, in rural Arizona, when the news was reporting that mexicans were leaving Arizona because of the new law that took effect, it was true. Between my wife and i we know about 25 people that left. The entire kitchen staff at one of the local restaraunt left, 8 people. The local economy took an immediate hit. 
Now it is true that some of the people who left were legal, and left in support of family members and friends. But still, a fair portion were likely illegals, and their leaving has affected the local econmy.


----------



## LilOlLady

* Beyond Borderlines Town Hall on Immigration *
WATCH: MSNBC Beyond Borderlines Town Hall on Immigration | Latina

MSNBC special on the view of Hispanic on immigrant was just an excuse for Amnesty and their trying to compare the illegal immigration from Mexico to the immigraints that came here from Europe through Ellis Island. These people were really tired, poor huddled masses yearning to breathe free, homeless and tempest-tossed to make a better life for themselves and to have a better life given to them. Not like those who are illegal crossing our southern border now asking what this country can give them.
We are no longer into nation building, but nation survival and illegal immigration today cannot be compared to immigration of old that built this country.


----------



## dramaofmylife

Birthright citizenship is outdated, the US is the only developed country who still does this. It is said that the 14th amendment was written to discourage discrimination against the children of former African American slaves, not so that every illegal and her sister can come over here, have their kids and collect welfare benefits because their kids are "called" American. If the authors of the 14th amendment knew that illegal immigrants would be rushing this country and taking advantage of this amendment, I'm sure they would have taken further measures to clarify it. I live here in the Phoenix area and I see the devestating effects of birthright citizenship. 

Here in Arizona, programs like medicaid and child care assistance are frozen up with a waiting list that has not budged for the last two years because of illegal immigrants and their birthright kids weighing the system down. AZ's public school system has frantically tried to keep up with this exploding population of immigrants and their birthright kids by building a school on every corner and trying to teach these kids English and it hasn't been enough; the classes are STILL  overflowing with 30+ kids to each class and AZ schools are among the worst in the country. I literally received a letter from the school district a few weeks ago explaining the the reason this school district has not met state standards for the last three years and only 30%  of the kids passed AZ state tests is because of the Non-English speakers. And yes, you read that right. AZ has spent all this money to build all these schools and spend all this time teaching these birthright and immigrant kids English, yet they STILL will not speak English. Enough is enough already, it has come to a point where our congress has NO CHOICE but to do something with the 14th amendment. Because if they don't do something the border states will literally be like Mexico inside the US if they are not already.


----------



## dramaofmylife

Angelhair said:


> _This birthright perk has got to go.  It only serves to bring in the poor from other countries, drop their babies here and immediately qualify for all the resources put in place for the poor here who are citizens.  These babies then are deemed citizens and are entitled to everything this country has to offer.  Somehow that does not seem fair to those here who have to pay those astronomical taxes that the poor don't pay and who via their birthright babies qualify for the freebies._


You got that right!


----------



## Intense

dramaofmylife said:


> Birthright citizenship is outdated, the US is the only developed country who still does this. It is said that the 14th amendment was written to discourage discrimination against the children of former African American slaves, not so that every illegal and her sister can come over here, have their kids and collect welfare benefits because their kids are "called" American. If the authors of the 14th amendment knew that illegal immigrants would be rushing this country and taking advantage of this amendment, I'm sure they would have taken further measures to clarify it. I live here in the Phoenix area and I see the devestating effects of birthright citizenship.
> 
> Here in Arizona, programs like medicaid and child care assistance are frozen up with a waiting list that has not budged for the last two years because of illegal immigrants and their birthright kids weighing the system down. AZ's public school system has frantically tried to keep up with this exploding population of immigrants and their birthright kids by building a school on every corner and trying to teach these kids English and it hasn't been enough; the classes are STILL  overflowing with 30+ kids to each class and AZ schools are among the worst in the country. I literally received a letter from the school district a few weeks ago explaining the the reason this school district has not met state standards for the last three years and only 30%  of the kids passed AZ state tests is because of the Non-English speakers. And yes, you read that right. AZ has spent all this money to build all these schools and spend all this time teaching these birthright and immigrant kids English, yet they STILL will not speak English. Enough is enough already, it has come to a point where our congress has NO CHOICE but to do something with the 14th amendment. Because if they don't do something the border states will literally be like Mexico inside the US if they are not already.



If The Federal Government was required to fund every Mandate, things would change real quick.


----------



## dramaofmylife

LilOlLady said:


> MEXICO NEED ITS YOUNG.
> 
> We do not need Mexicos young and strong in our workforce or our military to fight for our freedom and the threat of terrorism. But Mexico needs its young men and women to fight a real threat that is killing their people and a real threat to the freedom for Mexico. Mexico is at war with drug cartels. Mexico also need a young, strong work force to build a strong economy for Mexico and to keep its people home. And a strong military to win the war against drug cartels.
> We are doing a great harm to the future of Mexico by allowing uncontrolled migration of its people.
> Comprehensive Immigration Reform is a nation destroyer. A bigger threat to Mexico then the drug cartels. Mexico needs man power worse than they need money and we have their man power. 10 million at least who are Mexicos future.
> Educate their children but then send them home to benefit Mexico. A strong Mexico means a strong America. By destroying Mexico, we are destroying ourselves. Isnt that what Obama said on his last trip? Our economy depend on a strong economy world wide? We need to help Mexico by sending it people home and amnesty for its people will destroy Mexico. Amnesty for illegal aliens is not only wrong but immoral.
> Mexicos future in not in our workforce or our military. We are letting future votes and cheap labor for corporations that are big campaign contributors blind our senses.



I agree with everything except for the part about educating them, they need to educate their own. Instead of staying and fighting for their country, they run like cowards to ours and have a ton of babies so they can collect welfare. I swear some people just have no pride.


----------



## dramaofmylife

LilOlLady said:


> *Legalization Would Have Financial And Social Benefits*
> The legalization of illegal immigrants would lead to some improvements in governmental programs. Many states are required to treat illegal immigrants with medical problems without payment. The states and their taxpayers, then, foot the bill. This sort of policy has helped to bankrupt states like California. But legalizing illegal immigrants would help reduce such instances. *Once legalized, immigrants would become responsible for their own medical care.* LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal aliens are *low income earners *and pay little or no taxes and would qualify for social services. Medicaid, food stamps and public or low income housing. Section 8. Adding them on to Obamacare would be astronomical in cost.



I don't know about that, the hospitals would still have to treat them. The only difference would be that the hospitals could turn them into the credit bureaus and I really don't think that a bunch of people who come here illegally to begin with care about that.


----------



## LilOlLady

William Joyce;2990044 

Say "[B said:
			
		

> black pride"[/B] and get federal funding.
> Say "*white pride"* and get federal surveillance.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> *William the differnce is;**Black pride*From Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, search
> Black pride is a slogan used to *raise awareness of black racial identity*, and to *express solidarity*. Related movements include *black nationalism and Afrocentrism.*
> The slogan has been used in the United States by African Americans to *celebrate heritage and personal pride*. The black pride movement is closely linked with the developments of the *American civil rights movement*, during which figures such as *Martin Luther King, Jr., A. Philip Randolph, Malcom X and Stokely Carmichael *spoke out against the *conditions of the United States' segregated society*, and lobbied for *better treatment for people of all races.*
> 
> 
> Black pride - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> *White pride*From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> The slogan *"White Pride, World Wide*" appears in the logo of *Stormfron*t, a website owned and operated by Don Black, who was *formerly a Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan*. The *North Georgia White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan *describe themselves as "*a patriotic, *White Christian revival movement dedicated to* preserving the maintenance of White Pride *and the *rights of the White Race".*
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_pride


----------



## Laura

The retired immigration enforcement officer did not answer Lawrence O'Donald's question "How did it make you feel when you had to arrest someone like the gentleman on the panel and send them back to Mexico."  He completely deflected the question to a discussion of starving children in this country - AS IF LATINOS ARE RESPONSIBLE!  NOW ASK THE GUY HOW CORPORATIONS CAN ALLOW ANY CHILDREN TO STARVE WHILE THEY AMAS BILLIONS IN PROFITS WITH WHICH TO BUY THEIR NEXT YACHT OR GARISH MANSION!


----------



## Laura

Corporations have the means and ability to see to it that every person in this country has a safe home, food on the table and stable employment.

WHY IS THERE NO DISCUSSION OF ILLEGAL, UNETHICAL AND JUST PLAIN OBNOXIOUS CORPORATE BEHAVIOR THAT IS THE REAL REASON THIS ECONOMY IS IN THE TANK?  

THESE CORPORATIONS HAVE CAUSED THE PROBLEM OF RESOURCES - NOT THE HISPANICS OR ANY OTHER POPULATION!  

THE PROBLEM - CORPORATE GREED AND OUR GOVERNMENT'S COOPERATION WITH IT!  

THE PROBLEM - MONEY IN POLITICS!  

THE PROBLEM - A RIGHT WING SUPREME COURT SUPPORTING THE RIGHTS OF CORPORATIONS OVER INDIVIDUAL CITIZENS!

I am lily white and can't stand this constant blaming of Hispanics for the ills of this country.  It's time to pull back the covers and expose the Corporations who have funneled money from the Middle Class for decades while the Government applauded with Right Wing hands tainted with Corporate dollars.


----------



## WillowTree

Laura said:


> Corporations have the means and ability to see to it that every person in this country has a safe home, food on the table and stable employment.
> 
> WHY IS THERE NO DISCUSSION OF ILLEGAL, UNETHICAL AND JUST PLAIN OBNOXIOUS CORPORATE BEHAVIOR THAT IS THE REAL REASON THIS ECONOMY IS IN THE TANK?
> 
> THESE CORPORATIONS HAVE CAUSED THE PROBLEM OF RESOURCES - NOT THE HISPANICS OR ANY OTHER POPULATION!
> 
> THE PROBLEM - CORPORATE GREED AND OUR GOVERNMENT'S COOPERATION WITH IT!
> 
> THE PROBLEM - MONEY IN POLITICS!
> 
> THE PROBLEM - A RIGHT WING SUPREME COURT SUPPORTING THE RIGHTS OF CORPORATIONS OVER INDIVIDUAL CITIZENS!
> 
> I am lily white and can't stand this constant blaming of Hispanics for the ills of this country.  It's time to pull back the covers and expose the Corporations who have funneled money from the Middle Class for decades while the Government applauded with Right Wing hands tainted with Corporate dollars.



You suck you stupid asshole, You would let a thief move into your house, steal your money, steal your food and steal you education and your medical care, your electricity and your hot water and blame it on corporations. You just plain suck.


----------



## Angelhair

Laura said:


> Corporations have the means and ability to see to it that every person in this country has a safe home, food on the table and stable employment.
> _----And I bet you voted for Obama and would love to live under socialism too._
> 
> WHY IS THERE NO DISCUSSION OF ILLEGAL, UNETHICAL AND JUST PLAIN OBNOXIOUS CORPORATE BEHAVIOR THAT IS THE REAL REASON THIS ECONOMY IS IN THE TANK?
> _----Cause Mexico/Central/SoAmerica are in cahoots with these corporations which you claim are responsible for the economy being in the tank.
> 
> THESE CORPORATIONS HAVE CAUSED THE PROBLEM OF RESOURCES - NOT THE HISPANICS OR ANY OTHER POPULATION!
> ----Blame the countries where these people escape from; not the corportions as it's those countries who want to keep them 'barefoot and pregnant'.
> 
> THE PROBLEM - CORPORATE GREED AND OUR GOVERNMENT'S COOPERATION WITH IT!
> ----It's so damn easy to blame the country who does more for the world.  You live in a capitalist system - but there are other countries which you might like better.  Look them up.
> 
> THE PROBLEM - MONEY IN POLITICS!
> ----What??? They should be in politics for free????  Again, a capitalist system.
> 
> THE PROBLEM - A RIGHT WING SUPREME COURT SUPPORTING THE RIGHTS OF CORPORATIONS OVER INDIVIDUAL CITIZENS!
> ----No, the problem is the LEFT-WING Supreme Court supporting the socialist mentality of the left-wing loonies.  Case closed._
> 
> I am lily white and can't stand this constant blaming of Hispanics for the ills of this country.  It's time to pull back the covers and expose the Corporations who have funneled money from the Middle Class for decades while the Government applauded with Right Wing hands tainted with Corporate dollars.



_----Discribe 'lily white'.  The blame falls on the countries these hisipanics come from for not doing more to get these people out of poverty - the word corruption comes to mind.  The illegal entry of these people falls on the USA government refusing to keep them out and you can blame the bleeding heart liberals for that one!  Interesting - now it's only the right wingers who OWN the corporations and the dollars._[/I]


----------



## daveman

Laura said:


> Corporations have the means and ability to see to it that every person in this country has a safe home, food on the table and stable employment.
> 
> WHY IS THERE NO DISCUSSION OF ILLEGAL, UNETHICAL AND JUST PLAIN OBNOXIOUS CORPORATE BEHAVIOR THAT IS THE REAL REASON THIS ECONOMY IS IN THE TANK?
> 
> THESE CORPORATIONS HAVE CAUSED THE PROBLEM OF RESOURCES - NOT THE HISPANICS OR ANY OTHER POPULATION!
> 
> THE PROBLEM - CORPORATE GREED AND OUR GOVERNMENT'S COOPERATION WITH IT!
> 
> THE PROBLEM - MONEY IN POLITICS!
> 
> THE PROBLEM - A RIGHT WING SUPREME COURT SUPPORTING THE RIGHTS OF CORPORATIONS OVER INDIVIDUAL CITIZENS!
> 
> I am lily white and can't stand this constant blaming of Hispanics for the ills of this country.  It's time to pull back the covers and expose the Corporations who have funneled money from the Middle Class for decades while the Government applauded with Right Wing hands tainted with Corporate dollars.


Then you give your stuff and money away to the poor "undocumented workers" to salve your wounded ego.

But don't think you have any moral authority to give MY stuff and money away.


----------



## LilOlLady

*WILL OF THE PEOPLE; NO AMNESTY.*

Obama, Reid and Pelosi were hired to do the work for the people and the people do not want *Comprehensive Immigration reform *(amnesty, path to citizenship, Dream Act) whatever they want to call it means the same. The people want *border security *and *enforcement* of our immigration laws.

Just because *30 million aliens have entered this country illegally *does not mean *our immigration system is broken*. It means our government have not been doing the job they were hired to do. By *not enforcing our immigration laws *and *securing the border *is why the immigration system is not working, but it is *not broken and in need of repair or replacement. *

*Amnesty in 1986* did not fix illegal immigration or secure the border and will not fix it in 2010 and 30 million more illegal aliens.

*Dream Act is nothing more then amnesty for all illegal aliens *because there is not way our government is going to *put the children on a path to citizenship and deport their parents*. What kind of fools do they think we are?

Its not amnesty. They have to earn citizenship by paying a fine, learning English, pay back taxes pass a criminal back ground check and go to the back of the invisible line. *I have not heard more BS in a barnyard.*


----------



## LilOlLady

LilOlLady said:


> * Beyond Borderlines Town Hall on Immigration *
> WATCH: MSNBC Beyond Borderlines Town Hall on Immigration | Latina
> 
> MSNBC special on the view of Hispanic on immigrant was just an excuse for Amnesty and their trying to compare the illegal immigration from Mexico to the immigraints that came here from Europe through Ellis Island. These people were really tired, poor huddled masses yearning to breathe free, homeless and tempest-tossed to make a better life for themselves and *to have a better life given to them*. Not like those who are illegal crossing our southern border now asking what this country can give them.
> We are no longer into nation building, but nation survival and illegal immigration today cannot be compared to immigration of old that built this country.



correction;
*Not* to have a better life given to them.


----------



## LilOlLady

Laura said:


> *Corporations* have the means and ability to see to it that every person in this country has a safe home, food on the table and stable employment.
> 
> WHY IS THERE NO DISCUSSION OF ILLEGAL, UNETHICAL AND JUST PLAIN OBNOXIOUS CORPORATE BEHAVIOR THAT IS THE REAL REASON THIS ECONOMY IS IN THE TANK?
> 
> THESE CORPORATIONS HAVE CAUSED THE PROBLEM OF RESOURCES - NOT THE HISPANICS OR ANY OTHER POPULATION!
> 
> THE PROBLEM - CORPORATE GREED AND OUR GOVERNMENT'S COOPERATION WITH IT!
> 
> THE PROBLEM - MONEY IN POLITICS!
> 
> THE PROBLEM - A RIGHT WING SUPREME COURT SUPPORTING THE RIGHTS OF CORPORATIONS OVER INDIVIDUAL CITIZENS!
> 
> I am lily white and can't stand this constant blaming of Hispanics for the ills of this country.  It's time to pull back the covers and expose the Corporations who have funneled money from the Middle Class for decades while the Government applauded with Right Wing hands tainted with Corporate dollars.



What part of ILLEGAL do you not understand? Corporations do not go to south of the border and drag illegal alien screaming and kicking back across the border, give them false social security card and IDs,etc. No one forces the to break the law. Lily white liberal just may be your problem.


----------



## chicagonut

Agreed.   There are three guilty parties in this illegal immigration mess.   The employers, our government and the illegals themselves.   However, the libs and ethnocentrics want to give the illegals a pass in this.


----------



## LilOlLady

* 2 Nevada lawmakers to push for immigration law*


The Associated Press 
.At least two Republicans seek to introduce legislation targeting illegal immigration at the upcoming session of the Nevada Legislature.


Gustavson is pushing for a bill based on the controversial Arizona immigration law being challenged in federal court. He also wants legislation* requiring driver's license exams to be administered in English only.* The exams now also are given in Spanish.


Hickey seeks legislation that would *require employers to use the federal E-Verify system* to determine whether employees are authorized to work in the U.S. He also plans to push for a bill that would *impose a fee on money wire transfers outside the country*.

Hickey said the latter bill would give undocumented workers who send money home each month a better chance to *"pay their fair share."*


Gustavson said the goal of his Arizona-style bill is to "get citizens in Nevada back to work."



 Read more at the San Francisco Examiner: 
2 Nevada lawmakers to push for immigration law | San Francisco Examiner


----------



## bag

Hickey said the latter bill would give undocumented workers who send money home each month a better chance to *"pay their fair share."*

gee, i'd like to tax money MADE by a legitimate worker, double....oooops......


----------



## Bullfighter

bag said:


> Hickey said the latter bill would give undocumented workers who send money home each month a better chance to *"pay their fair share."*
> 
> gee, i'd like to tax money MADE by a legitimate worker, double....oooops......


 
Yes! Stealing everything in the US and sending it home (Mexico)sounds good to the Mexican people too!


----------



## LilOlLady

*THE DREAM ACT IS A TERRORIST ACT AGAINST AMERICANS*


The Dream Act along with 14th Amendment is a nightmare for every American. It will put *millions illegal aliens here and in Mexico *on a path to citizenship *via their illegal aliens children* and their *American born children*. 

These acts will *displace millions of Americans *in the education system and the workforce and at the voting booths. And the end results is *total destruction of America *as we know it with no chance of ever controlling illegal immigration or legal immigration.

Dream Act can only be described as; *Terrorist Act. Bail out for illegal aliens and a  Never Ending Nightmare for Americans.*Illegal alien terrorists is a far more serious threat to the *safety and freedom *of Americans than any other foreign terrorist threat.



We need to *fight this Dream Act like we are **fighting for our lives* and *losing is not an option.*


----------



## LilOlLady

ILLEGAL ALIENS MAKE NO CONTRIBUTION.

Illegal aliens make no contributions to this country what so ever. The benefits they receive by way of their anchor babies, welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, public housing and section 8 housing, and the benefits of free emergency room medical care. Canceled out any taxes they may pay.
They are low income earners and pay very little taxes if any. They take jobs from Americans and lower wages. 
They do not pay my social security because social security is going broke and were is my social security COLA?

The Dream Act will cause chain migration of millions of immigrants that we dont have jobs for. 15 million Americans are unemployed and we dont know how many illegal aliens are unemployed or collecting unemployment.
If the Dream act put millions into our military, they will be paid and eventually qualify for all veterans benefits. 

Only contribution illegal aliens make is to corporations who want unlimited supply of cheap labor without have to pay health insurance or unemployment benefits and future votes for democrats.

Illegal aliens are still entering this country daily in hope of benefiting from the promise of Comprehensive Immigration Reform (amnesty) and there is no work for them and they turn to committing crimes. One such we was ask why he committed crime said because there is not work. Crimes are on the  increase with the unemployment of illegal alien.
With illegal immigration comes more gang violence and drug smuggling and dealing.



Law enforcement seeing increase of illegal immigrants jailed across Treasure Coast
September 5th, 2010 by TCPalm.com
Law enforcement seeing increase of illegal immigrants jailed across Treasure Coast | Treasure Coast Talk


----------



## Mad Scientist

I can't wait to see their faces when the North American Union is announced and they find out there isn't a Mexico to go back to!


----------



## José

*Illegal aliens make no contribution.*

And this is coming from an old lady who, by her own admission, gets 23 k from the government *JUST FOR BEING A NATIVE AMERICAN*!!

Talk about being a leech on society!!


----------



## José

Don't get me wrong... I'm all for compensating the native inhabitants of the american continent for their territorial losses but the irony was just too rich to ignore.

"José Illegal" has probably contrituted more to the american economy in one day of work than many native americans (and whites, blacks, etc...) during their entire lives.


----------



## MaggieMae

I haven't really looked at the Dream Act, but if it doesn't include fast-tracking to citizenship (the wait is now an average of 3 years AFTER payment of hundreds of dollars for application fees along the way), illegal immigrants from Mexico will continue to cross the border. 

That, and I don't know why we can't just go back to the structural bussing to and from the border areas of seasonal workers to do the planting of various fruits and vegetables across the country, and then the harvesting. Anyone remember Caesar Chavez? He was a lone lobbyist for fair wages for California's grape pickers, but those pickers weren't here illegally: They were here on work visas, and it worked out very well.


----------



## Angelhair

_Cesar Chavez was againsti illegal entry therefore against illegals!!!  He claimed they lowered wages for those here LEGALLY!_


----------



## LilOlLady

José;3033247 said:
			
		

> *Illegal aliens make no contribution.*
> 
> And this is coming from an old lady who, by her own admission, gets 23 k from the government *JUST FOR BEING A NATIVE AMERICAN*!!
> 
> Talk about being a leech on society!!





Don't be stupid. Native Americans lost millions of acres of land to the Federal Government and the $23,000 come from land leased to the government owned by the Chickasaw Nation. 
You white people are the ones who get money just for being white.* MY BAD.*The Okla Land Grab was stolen land from the Indians and given to the white man.
Those on the Trail of Tears had their land stolen from them when they were forced from their land and sent west. 
Free Loading Pendajo, the feds will never compensate native americans for what the stole or for the hundreds of years for free labor contributed by the black slaves.
SHUT THE* #%$#* UP YOU *#$*! #%$# *LEECH.


----------



## LilOlLady

*How the Land of Northeast Ohio Was Stolen from Indigenous Peoples*
How Indian Land Was Stolen

In one of the saddest episodes of our brief history, men, women, and children were taken from their land, herded into makeshift forts with minimal facilities and food, then forced to march a thousand miles(Some made part of the trip by boat in equally horrible conditions). Under the generally indifferent army commanders, human losses for the first groups of Cherokee removed were extremely high. John Ross made an urgent appeal to Scott, requesting that the general let his people lead the tribe west. General Scott agreed. Ross organized the Cherokee into smaller groups and let them move separately through the wilderness so they could forage for food. Although the parties under Ross left in early fall and arrived in Oklahoma during the brutal winter of 1838-39, he significantly reduced the loss of life among his people. About 4000 Cherokee died as a result of the removal. The route they traversed and the journey itself became known as "The Trail of Tears" or, as a direct translation from Cherokee, "The Trail Where They Cried" ("Nunna daul Tsuny").

The Trail of Tears - Cherokee Indians forcibly removed from North Georgia

Land run (sometimes "land rush" ) usually refers to an historical event in which previously-restricted land of the United States was opened for homesteading on a first arrival basis. Some newly opened lands were sold first-come, sold by bid, or won by lottery, or by means other than a run. The settlers, no matter how they acquired occupancy, purchased the land from the United States Land Office. For former Indian lands, the Land Office distributed the funds to the various tribal entities according to previously negotiated terms. The Oklahoma Land Run of 1889 was the most prominent of the land runs, although there were several others enumerated below.

There were seven land runs in Oklahoma:

Land run - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## LilOlLady

MaggieMae said:


> I haven't really looked at the Dream Act, but if it doesn't include fast-tracking to citizenship (the wait is now an average of 3 years AFTER payment of hundreds of dollars for application fees along the way), illegal immigrants from Mexico will continue to cross the border.
> 
> That, and I don't know why we can't just go back to the structural bussing to and from the border areas of seasonal workers to do the planting of various fruits and vegetables across the country, and then the harvesting. Anyone remember Caesar Chavez? He was a lone lobbyist for fair wages for California's grape pickers, but those pickers weren't here illegally: They were here on work visas, and it worked out very well.





With 30 million illegals in this country why are farmers always complaint they don't have enough help.


----------



## LilOlLady

At least the Okla Native American who owned black slaves upon releasing them gave them "40 acres and a mule"  which the white slave owners promised but never delivered. And many black ex-slaves were adopted into the Indian nations as citizens. For 40 years ex-slaves were not citizens at all.
MAH


----------



## LilOlLady

José;3033257 said:
			
		

> Don't get me wrong... I'm all for compensating the native inhabitants of the american continent for their territorial losses but the irony was just too rich to ignore.
> 
> "José Illegal" has probably *contrituted more to the american economy *in one day of work than many native americans (and whites, blacks, etc...) during their entire lives.



You cannot conceivablely be that *stupid and unimformed*.

Jose, Maria and junior illegal are first class Free Loaders and never be more than Free Loaders. Only reason they are here is for the freebies because there is work in Mexico, there is healthcare  and there is education. *Other reason they are here is because this is America*.
I would like to see Family Illegal do without Americans for one day. No freebies for one day.



*A Day Without An American*self ^ | 5/2/06 | LS 

Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2006  
Yesterday, we were treated to an example of "a day without a Mexican," as one of the posters at my university put it. Odd, I really didn't notice their absence, or conversely, their presence, except, perhaps, that we had homemade chili for dinner. 

But let's consider a "happening" with momentous impact: a day without an American. 

A Day Without An American


----------



## LilOlLady

The real problem would be if there had *never been an Africa*. Blacks contributed more to civilization than any other race long before there were any other race.
Read; *Before the Mayflower.*
But of course that was then and this is now so let not make a mistake a bigger mistake with the Dream Act, Comprehensive Immigration Reform and continuing with automatic birthright citizenship for children of illegals. 
We cannot fix one problem by creating another problem.


----------



## Nate

Good God LilOlLady, talk about throwing random(crazy) myths out there just hoping something'll stick!



LilOlLady said:


> You white people are the ones who get money just for being white.



No I don't. I have to earn my money and pay taxes on it like all the yellow, brown, and black citizens of the U.S.




> With 30 million illegals in this country why are farmers always complaint they don't have enough help.



30 million!?! At most 15...



> At least the Okla Native American who owned black slaves upon releasing them gave them "40 acres and a mule"  which the white slave owners promised but never delivered. And many black ex-slaves were adopted into the Indian nations as citizens. For 40 years ex-slaves were not citizens at all.



Ah, one of the best that's out there. If you'd like to know how this myth came about you may want to research General Sherman and his march from Atlanta to Savannah...


----------



## MaggieMae

LilOlLady said:


> MaggieMae said:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't really looked at the Dream Act, but if it doesn't include fast-tracking to citizenship (the wait is now an average of 3 years AFTER payment of hundreds of dollars for application fees along the way), illegal immigrants from Mexico will continue to cross the border.
> 
> That, and I don't know why we can't just go back to the structural bussing to and from the border areas of seasonal workers to do the planting of various fruits and vegetables across the country, and then the harvesting. Anyone remember Caesar Chavez? He was a lone lobbyist for fair wages for California's grape pickers, but those pickers weren't here illegally: They were here on work visas, and it worked out very well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With 30 million illegals in this country why are farmers always complaint they don't have enough help.
Click to expand...


The small farmers who have been driven out of competition by the mega agrifarms can't even afford illegal help, or they would. Some of the larger dairy farms in VT employ a few Mexicans, but even those are hanging on only as a result of the NE Dairy Pact.


----------



## LilOlLady

Nate said:


> Good God LilOlLady, talk about throwing random(crazy) myths out there just hoping something'll stick!
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> You white people are the ones who get money just for being white.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I don't. I have to earn my money and pay taxes on it like all the yellow, brown, and black citizens of the U.S.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With 30 million illegals in this country why are farmers always complaint they don't have enough help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 30 million!?! At most 15...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least the Okla Native American who owned black slaves upon releasing them gave them "40 acres and a mule"  which the white slave owners promised but never delivered. And many black ex-slaves were adopted into the Indian nations as citizens. For 40 years ex-slaves were not citizens at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, one of the best that's out there. If you'd like to know how this myth came about you may want to research General Sherman and his march from Atlanta to Savannah...
Click to expand...


Have you read Chickasaw Freedman? What do you know about Olka history? I know what I am talking about because my people lived it.

CREEK LAW
"Each citizen shall select from his allotment* forty acres of land *as a homestead , ... In re Land of Five Civilized Tribes, supra. Oats v. Freeman, 57 Okla. ...
thorpe.ou.edu/treatises/laws/CreekLaw.html - Cached - Simila

*1885 Choctaw & Chickasaw Freedmen Admitted To Citizenship*1885 Choctaw & Chickasaw Freedmen Admitted To Citizenship ... below are those Choctaw and Chickasaw Freedmen adopted in 1885, by the Choctaw Nation. ... 1885 census taken the year of the formal adoption of the Africans into the nation. ...
1885 Choctaw & Chickasaw Freedmen Admitted To Citizenship - Cached - Similar



*      The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about*


----------



## LilOlLady

I take that back, White people has contributed blood, sweat and tears to building this country along with other races. American built this country. period.


----------



## Nate

LilOlLady said:


> Nate said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good God LilOlLady, talk about throwing random(crazy) myths out there just hoping something'll stick!
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> You white people are the ones who get money just for being white.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I don't. I have to earn my money and pay taxes on it like all the yellow, brown, and black citizens of the U.S.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 30 million!?! At most 15...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least the Okla Native American who owned black slaves upon releasing them gave them "40 acres and a mule"  which the white slave owners promised but never delivered. And many black ex-slaves were adopted into the Indian nations as citizens. For 40 years ex-slaves were not citizens at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, one of the best that's out there. If you'd like to know how this myth came about you may want to research General Sherman and his march from Atlanta to Savannah...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you read Chickasaw Freedman? What do you know about Olka history? I know what I am talking about because my people lived it.
> 
> CREEK LAW
> "Each citizen shall select from his allotment* forty acres of land *as a homestead , ... In re Land of Five Civilized Tribes, supra. Oats v. Freeman, 57 Okla. ...
> thorpe.ou.edu/treatises/laws/CreekLaw.html - Cached - Simila
> 
> *1885 Choctaw & Chickasaw Freedmen Admitted To Citizenship*1885 Choctaw & Chickasaw Freedmen Admitted To Citizenship ... below are those Choctaw and Chickasaw Freedmen adopted in 1885, by the Choctaw Nation. ... 1885 census taken the year of the formal adoption of the Africans into the nation. ...
> 1885 Choctaw & Chickasaw Freedmen Admitted To Citizenship - Cached - Similar
> 
> 
> 
> *      The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about*
Click to expand...


How much do I know about Oklahoma history? Enough to keep me in trouble since I've lived here off and on for many moons  and on my mother's side were Sooners(yeah not a proud part of my family history). 
As for your nation adopting freedman and giving land, do you realize the nonsense your Nation went through to try and stop it?


> Some Creeks had owned slaves prior to 1865, and the tribe was required to adopt them as freedmen by the treaty that restored U.S.-Creek relations after the Civil War. *Although intermarriage and social acceptance was much more common among the Creeks than other tribes, there was widespread opposition to giving the former slaves citizenship rights and a share of the tribal land. The federal government's insistence that the freedmen be enrolled was a constant source of contention between the tribal officials and the Dawes Commission and among the Creeks themselves. *The identity of the slaves was a major point of disagreement. In 1867 J. W. Dunn, the Creek agent at Fort Gibson, prepared a roll of 1,774 blacks he felt were entitled to citizenship. Tribal officials argued that many of these people had returned to the Creek Nation too late to take advantage of the treaty and others were "state negroes" who came with them to take advantage of economic opportunities. Full-bloods charged that officials of the three "colored towns" were always trying to include the names of these ineligible people on their town rolls. On August 4, 1896, the National Council was asked to establish a Special Census Commission to make a census of the "colored citizens."69
> 
> How some Creek Freedmen acquired tribal status.



From the sound of it the Freedman of your Nation has the Federal Government to thank for the land... You should read more from the site I provided if for anything else to enlighten you on your people... To use your words; The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about"


----------



## LilOlLady

Nate
*The Choctaw Freedmen of Oklahoma1885 *The Sixty-Nine Choctaw Freedmen Who Elected to Leave the Nation ... the *Choctaw Nation finally adopted their former slaves as ci*tizens into the nation. ...
The Choctaw Freedmen of Oklahoma - Cached - Similar
*
Black Indians and Cherokee Freedmen*
More than *20000 Africans were adopted into these nations *before the end of .... Oklahoma's Black Indians and their *hundreds of thousands of descendents *are ...
Black Indians and Cherokee Freedmen - Cached - Similar


Freedmen Only 4 of the 5 tribes (Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Creek and Seminole), the *Chickasaw being the one tribe that did not adopt their slaves.* ...
Freedmen - Cached - Similar

*The mix-blood Chickasaw slave were adopted.*


----------



## Nate

LilOlLady said:


> Nate
> *The Choctaw Freedmen of Oklahoma1885 *The Sixty-Nine Choctaw Freedmen Who Elected to Leave the Nation ... the *Choctaw Nation finally adopted their former slaves as ci*tizens into the nation. ...
> The Choctaw Freedmen of Oklahoma - Cached - Similar
> *
> Black Indians and Cherokee Freedmen*
> More than *20000 Africans were adopted into these nations *before the end of .... Oklahoma's Black Indians and their *hundreds of thousands of descendents *are ...
> Black Indians and Cherokee Freedmen - Cached - Similar
> 
> 
> Freedmen Only 4 of the 5 tribes (Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Creek and Seminole), the *Chickasaw being the one tribe that did not adopt their slaves.* ...
> Freedmen - Cached - Similar
> 
> *The mix-blood Chickasaw slave were adopted.*



Well LilOlLady, first let me apologize for not focusing on the OP and continuously addressing only on the Native American/freedman point of your posts, I find the subject fascinating and have nothing but the utmost respect for many of the tribes... But this adoption of the freedman was not all sunshine and roses as your cut and paste examples may express. There was hostility before/during/after the integration that seems to still exsist today, especially now that the tribes are making serious money with the casinos.


----------



## LilOlLady

*30 Million Illegal Immigrants Already in U.S., *
Claims New Book 
New York, NY (PRWEB) *July 31, 2006 *

New book "Minutemen" contends true number of illegal aliens is nearly triple Washington's official estimate of 11-12 million, or approximately one-tenth of the entire U.S. population. *Are supporters of amnesty covering up this fact from the American people*? 
30 Million Illegal Immigrants Already in U.S., Claims New Book


----------



## LilOlLady

*Information on our illegal immigration numbers*
Our illegal immigration numbers are based on an estimated *twenty million illegal aliens *having been present in our nation as of *January 1, 2004.* 

-------
The Tucson sector Border Patrol union local 2544 on the number of illegal aliens in our nation: *"There are currently 15 to 20 million illegal aliens in this country by many estimates*, but the real numbers could be much higher and the numbers increase every day because our borders are not secure (no matter what the politicians tell you - don't believe them for a second)". (Visit the local's website). 

Numbers of illegal aliens in the U.S. by Fred Elbel - THE AMERICAN RESISTANCE FOUNDATION - Information on illegal immigration numbers


----------



## Flopper

LilOlLady said:


> ILLEGAL ALIENS MAKE NO CONTRIBUTION.
> 
> Illegal aliens make no contributions to this country what so ever. The benefits they receive by way of their anchor babies, welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, public housing and section 8 housing, and the benefits of free emergency room medical care. Canceled out any taxes they may pay.
> They are low income earners and pay very little taxes if any. They take jobs from Americans and lower wages.
> They do not pay my social security because social security is going broke and were is my social security COLA?
> 
> The Dream Act will cause chain migration of millions of immigrants that we dont have jobs for. 15 million Americans are unemployed and we dont know how many illegal aliens are unemployed or collecting unemployment.
> If the Dream act put millions into our military, they will be paid and eventually qualify for all veterans benefits.
> 
> Only contribution illegal aliens make is to corporations who want unlimited supply of cheap labor without have to pay health insurance or unemployment benefits and future votes for democrats.
> 
> Illegal aliens are still entering this country daily in hope of benefiting from the promise of Comprehensive Immigration Reform (amnesty) and there is no work for them and they turn to committing crimes. One such we was ask why he committed crime said because there is not work. Crimes are on the  increase with the unemployment of illegal alien.
> With illegal immigration comes more gang violence and drug smuggling and dealing.
> 
> 
> 
> Law enforcement seeing increase of illegal immigrants jailed across Treasure Coast
> September 5th, 2010 by TCPalm.com
> Law enforcement seeing increase of illegal immigrants jailed across Treasure Coast | Treasure Coast Talk


The Dream Act will cause chain migration of millions of immigrants???

I rather doubt this.  Very few illegal immigrants would qualify.

Just to qualify the person would have to have proof that they lived here for 5 years and entered the country prior to the age of 16 and have a clean record.  In addition the person would also have to graduate from High School and been accepted into a college.  They also have to be between the ages of 12 and 35 at time the bill was enacted so anchor babies would not qualify.  The granting of citizenship depends on getting an honorable discharge from military service or graduation from college. plus other requirement.  Any criminal activity and they're out.

DREAM Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



To qualifty for citizenship


----------



## bag

LilOlLady said:


> ILLEGAL ALIENS MAKE NO CONTRIBUTION.
> 
> Only contribution illegal aliens make is to corporations who want unlimited supply of cheap labor without have to pay health insurance or unemployment benefits and future votes for democrats.
> 
> illegal aliens pay income tax and social security tax when they work, be it under false pretenses or not. THAT money goes into federal funds. are some the funds paid by illegals, yes, but not all. why don't you stop going after immigrants that want to work and support the programs that help YOU and go after the CORPORATIONS that are breaking the law. that would be republican supported CORPORATIONS. wake up Lil, your anger is misplaced.


----------



## hortysir

The only logical conclusion, from the OP, is that LilOlLady is an illegal alien


----------



## Payne222

LilOlLady...are you mad at Mexicans and Canadians and all other "non-natives" to the Continent too? It always seems like Americans take the grunt end of people's frustrations. Also, that reminded  me of a sign I saw from a Mexican woman at a pro-illegal immigration rally saying for Americans to "go back to their own continent". Arn't Mexicans just like Americans, as in the majority are all of mostly European ancestry?

As for Illegals doing nothing. They do do jobs...that they shouldn't have. There should be nothing to give them free citizenship...that's like rewarding any other criminal, stupid. Deport everyone (regardless of background) that is illegal and start from scratch, taking a couple hundred people in annual to make the system better and to keep the country safe.


----------



## LilOlLady

Payne222 said:


> LilOlLady...are you* mad at Mexicans and Canadians *and all other "non-natives" to the Continent too? It always seems like Americans take the grunt end of people's frustrations. Also, that reminded  me of a sign I saw from a Mexican woman at a pro-illegal immigration rally saying for Americans to "go back to their own continent". Arn't *Mexicans just like Americans*, as in the majority are all of mostly European ancestry?
> 
> As for Illegals doing nothing. They do do jobs...that they shouldn't have. There should be nothing to give them free citizenship...that's like rewarding any other criminal, stupid. Deport everyone (regardless of background) that is illegal and start from scratch, taking a couple hundred people in annual to make the system better and to keep the country safe.



What part of "ILLEGAL" do YOU not understand. I hate illegal immigration and here in Nevada and Arizona where I live and grew up in it was predominately Mexican illegals.
Illegal aliens from Mexico are not Americans even though they are considered white. They are citizens of Mexico who entered this country illegal AFTER we drew up immigration laws.  
Europeans who entered this country through Ellis Island and registered are not in this coutry illegally. 
The Mexican women who rally for Americans to go back to their country or orgin is stupid to the history of how those immigrants entered this country. They made a contribution because we were in to nation building then but now we are into to nation survival and we cannot survive with uncontrolled immigration.

Majority of illegals are from south of the border and they are the ones causing most of our problems. MS13 gangs.etc. They enter school not able to speak English and we have to hire teachers to teach them. They are coming across the southern border and we pay border patrols. Canadians are not entering at the rate of Hispanics.
African American are of African descent but that does not give Africans legally right to be here?


----------



## LilOlLady

hortysir said:


> The only logical conclusion, from the OP, is that LilOlLady is an illegal alien



Yeah right birther.


----------



## LilOlLady

bag said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> ILLEGAL ALIENS MAKE NO CONTRIBUTION.
> 
> Only contribution illegal aliens make is to corporations who want unlimited supply of cheap labor without have to pay health insurance or unemployment benefits and future votes for democrats.
> 
> illegal aliens *pay income tax and social security tax *when they work, be it under false pretenses or not. THAT money goes into federal funds. are some the funds paid by illegals, yes, but not all. why don't you stop *going after immigrants that want to work and support the programs that help YOU *and go after the CORPORATIONS that are breaking the law. that would be republican supported CORPORATIONS. wake up Lil, your anger is misplaced.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal aliens are low wage earners and pay very little in taxes any any and they collect benefits that far out weigh the taxes they pay. Healthcare via ER. Anchor babies education and social services. Incarcerations. Gangs.
> I don't discriminate. I go after corporations, our government and ilegals.
> Illegals killed 25 americans a day, rape 8 children a day not to mention other crimes committed. The price of illegal aliens is to high for americans to pay.
> If they are paying my social security, why is social security going broke and I did not get my COLA last two years, and there are 20 million in this country?
> They are not contributions to the economy either, it is failing. All the rhetoric you hear is coming from pro-illegal immigrants advocates and illegals.
> *They contribute absolute nothing to this country.* I don't see it and I sure as hell don't feel it. They have bankrupt Calif and many hospitals. The reason why they should be deported is too many to mention.
Click to expand...


----------



## LilOlLady

Flopper said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> ILLEGAL ALIENS MAKE NO CONTRIBUTION.
> 
> Illegal aliens make no contributions to this country what so ever. The benefits they receive by way of their anchor babies, welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, public housing and section 8 housing, and the benefits of free emergency room medical care. Canceled out any taxes they may pay.
> They are low income earners and pay very little taxes if any. They take jobs from Americans and lower wages.
> They do not pay my social security because social security is going broke and were is my social security COLA?
> 
> The Dream Act will cause chain migration of millions of immigrants that we dont have jobs for. 15 million Americans are unemployed and we dont know how many illegal aliens are unemployed or collecting unemployment.
> If the Dream act put millions into our military, they will be paid and eventually qualify for all veterans benefits.
> 
> Only contribution illegal aliens make is to corporations who want unlimited supply of cheap labor without have to pay health insurance or unemployment benefits and future votes for democrats.
> 
> Illegal aliens are still entering this country daily in hope of benefiting from the promise of Comprehensive Immigration Reform (amnesty) and there is no work for them and they turn to committing crimes. One such we was ask why he committed crime said because there is not work. Crimes are on the  increase with the unemployment of illegal alien.
> With illegal immigration comes more gang violence and drug smuggling and dealing.
> 
> 
> 
> Law enforcement seeing increase of illegal immigrants jailed across Treasure Coast
> September 5th, 2010 by TCPalm.com
> Law enforcement seeing increase of illegal immigrants jailed across Treasure Coast | Treasure Coast Talk
> 
> 
> 
> The Dream Act will cause chain migration of millions of immigrants???
> 
> I rather doubt this.  Very few illegal immigrants would qualify.
> 
> Just to qualify the person would have to have *proof* that they lived here for 5 years and entered the country prior to the age of 16 and have a clean record.  In addition the person would also have to graduate from High School and been accepted into a college.  They also have to be between the ages of 12 and 35 at time the bill was enacted so *anchor babies would not qualify.* The granting of citizenship depends on getting an honorable discharge from military service or graduation from college. plus other requirement.  Any criminal activity and they're out.
> 
> DREAM Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> To qualifty for citizenship
Click to expand...


Then it is not worth the cost to even implement? How does one prove anything when they have numerous aliases? An illegal aliens who is convicted of a crime has only to change his alias,
There probably won't even be enough that qualify to even bother with the Dream Act. Most drop out and join gangs anyway. What advantage is there for them to become citizens anyway. They can live and work here as long as they want to? To become american citizens, they have to give up their Mexican citizenship. Right????


----------



## LilOlLady

*Illegal Immigration Statistics That Might Shock You*

Wednesday, November 24th, 2010 at 9:03 pm  

A lot has been already said and nothing much has been seriously done for impeding the illegitimate intrusion into our country. As a result, the mounting illegal immigration statistics and escalating crime rate has not just shocked us, but has distresses us as well. Illegal immigration statistics were on a rise for many years in a row and the entire US has faced its aftermaths. Illegal immigration is like an illicit burden on our economy.

The *cost *that is incurred by our government in offering them medical and other facilities is far greater than the taxes these illegal immigrants pay whenever they purchase a good or through their ITIN number.


Illegal Immigration Statistics


----------



## hortysir

LilOlLady said:


> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only logical conclusion, from the OP, is that LilOlLady is an illegal alien
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah right birther.
Click to expand...

Circular logic dictates that you make no contribution either.
And "birther"? Think not, retard.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Once quietly deported, illegal immigrants now likely face charges*
Mon Nov 29, 12:01

There's a major shift in U.S. immigration policy happening in federal court rooms on the border. Tens of thousands of illegal immigrants who were once quietly deported now face 
prosecution.

Once quietly deported, illegal immigrants now likely face charges

*No more catch and release.*


----------



## Flopper

LilOlLady said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> ILLEGAL ALIENS MAKE NO CONTRIBUTION.
> 
> Illegal aliens make no contributions to this country what so ever. The benefits they receive by way of their anchor babies, welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, public housing and section 8 housing, and the benefits of free emergency room medical care. Canceled out any taxes they may pay.
> They are low income earners and pay very little taxes if any. They take jobs from Americans and lower wages.
> They do not pay my social security because social security is going broke and were is my social security COLA?
> 
> The Dream Act will cause chain migration of millions of immigrants that we dont have jobs for. 15 million Americans are unemployed and we dont know how many illegal aliens are unemployed or collecting unemployment.
> If the Dream act put millions into our military, they will be paid and eventually qualify for all veterans benefits.
> 
> Only contribution illegal aliens make is to corporations who want unlimited supply of cheap labor without have to pay health insurance or unemployment benefits and future votes for democrats.
> 
> Illegal aliens are still entering this country daily in hope of benefiting from the promise of Comprehensive Immigration Reform (amnesty) and there is no work for them and they turn to committing crimes. One such we was ask why he committed crime said because there is not work. Crimes are on the  increase with the unemployment of illegal alien.
> With illegal immigration comes more gang violence and drug smuggling and dealing.
> 
> 
> 
> Law enforcement seeing increase of illegal immigrants jailed across Treasure Coast
> September 5th, 2010 by TCPalm.com
> Law enforcement seeing increase of illegal immigrants jailed across Treasure Coast | Treasure Coast Talk
> 
> 
> 
> The Dream Act will cause chain migration of millions of immigrants???
> 
> I rather doubt this.  Very few illegal immigrants would qualify.
> 
> Just to qualify the person would have to have *proof* that they lived here for 5 years and entered the country prior to the age of 16 and have a clean record.  In addition the person would also have to graduate from High School and been accepted into a college.  They also have to be between the ages of 12 and 35 at time the bill was enacted so *anchor babies would not qualify.* The granting of citizenship depends on getting an honorable discharge from military service or graduation from college. plus other requirement.  Any criminal activity and they're out.
> 
> DREAM Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> To qualifty for citizenship
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then it is not worth the cost to even implement? How does one prove anything when they have numerous aliases? An illegal aliens who is convicted of a crime has only to change his alias,
> There probably won't even be enough that qualify to even bother with the Dream Act. Most drop out and join gangs anyway. What advantage is there for them to become citizens anyway. They can live and work here as long as they want to? To become american citizens, they have to give up their Mexican citizenship. Right????
Click to expand...

Approximately 65,000 students graduate from U.S. high schools each year who have been in the United States more than 5 years, but face limited prospects for completing their education or working legally in the U.S. because they were brought here at a young age without immigration documents.  

The CBO has not scored the Bill in the Senate, however the cost of the 2004 bill was judged insignificant and covered mostly by fees. 

The five year residency requirement is pretty easy prove, since they have to graduate from high school to be qualify.

The advantage to these kids of becoming a US citizen should be obvious. An undocumented alien lives beneath the radar.   Taxes are taken out of their paychecks but they do not get refunds because they are afraid to file a return.   They pay social security but can never draw it out.  They are excluded from military service.  Many social programs require documents which they do not have.  Many live in crime infested neighborhoods but are afraid to report crimes to the police.  They work for lower wages than documented immigrants often in illegal enterprises.  They are cheated by employers but have no legal recourse.  And worst of all, they live with the constant thought, that they may be deported from the only country they know.

Most of the kids that would qualify for the Dream Act did not choose to come into this country illegally.  They were brought here by their families.  In general, their families encourage them to stay under the radar, which often mean dropping out of school and forgoing any opportunity of holding down a decent job..  The Dream Act would make it possible for these kids to become an asset to the nation as opposed to liability.

Yes, you can be a citizen of the US and Mexico.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *LilOlLady*
> You cannot conceivablely be that stupid and unimformed.
> 
> Jose, Maria and junior illegal are first class Free Loaders and never be more than Free Loaders. Only reason they are here is for the freebies because there is work in Mexico, there is healthcare and there is education. Other reason they are here is because this is America.
> I would like to see Family Illegal do without Americans for one day. No freebies for one day.



An illegal Mexican who spend most of his life fixing roofs in the US contributes a gazillion times more to the American economy than an american citizen who gets 23 k from the US government every year just for being an Indian.

This is a fact no matter how much it displeases you.


----------



## Bullfighter

LilOlLady said:


> *How the Land of Northeast Ohio Was Stolen from Indigenous Peoples*
> How Indian Land Was Stolen
> 
> In one of the saddest episodes of our brief history, men, women, and children were taken from their land, herded into makeshift forts with minimal facilities and food, then forced to march a thousand miles(Some made part of the trip by boat in equally horrible conditions). Under the generally indifferent army commanders, human losses for the first groups of Cherokee removed were extremely high. John Ross made an urgent appeal to Scott, requesting that the general let his people lead the tribe west. General Scott agreed. Ross organized the Cherokee into smaller groups and let them move separately through the wilderness so they could forage for food. Although the parties under Ross left in early fall and arrived in Oklahoma during the brutal winter of 1838-39, he significantly reduced the loss of life among his people. About 4000 Cherokee died as a result of the removal. The route they traversed and the journey itself became known as "The Trail of Tears" or, as a direct translation from Cherokee, "The Trail Where They Cried" ("Nunna daul Tsuny").
> 
> The Trail of Tears - Cherokee Indians forcibly removed from North Georgia
> 
> Land run (sometimes "land rush" ) usually refers to an historical event in which previously-restricted land of the United States was opened for homesteading on a first arrival basis. Some newly opened lands were sold first-come, sold by bid, or won by lottery, or by means other than a run. The settlers, no matter how they acquired occupancy, purchased the land from the United States Land Office. For former Indian lands, the Land Office distributed the funds to the various tribal entities according to previously negotiated terms. The Oklahoma Land Run of 1889 was the most prominent of the land runs, although there were several others enumerated below.
> 
> There were seven land runs in Oklahoma:
> 
> Land run - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


 
But in all honesty, would you rather be living in a western hemisphere in 2010 that never saw a single "foreigner" that improved civilization for millions of people who live here today. Can you honestly say the land belongs to those who do nothing to improve it?

I know at least one "Native American" who laughs at the thought of living the way "his ancestors" did. 

And really, virtually ever country has gone though something similar in their past. It is who can improve the world and make it a better place to live in that counts.


----------



## Bullfighter

José;3040895 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *LilOlLady*
> You cannot conceivablely be that stupid and unimformed.
> 
> Jose, Maria and junior illegal are first class Free Loaders and never be more than Free Loaders. Only reason they are here is for the freebies because there is work in Mexico, there is healthcare and there is education. Other reason they are here is because this is America.
> I would like to see Family Illegal do without Americans for one day. No freebies for one day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An illegal Mexican who spend most of his life fixing roofs in the US contributes a gazillion times more to the American economy than an american citizen who gets 23 k from the US government every year just for being an Indian.
> 
> This is a fact no matter how much it displeases you.
Click to expand...

 
In my neighborhood, that roofer's 2 kids would drain the economy of $23,000 just going to the local elementary school. There's no way illegals give more than they take unless they are rich people just looking to live in America and don't have time to stand in line at Customs.


----------



## LilOlLady

José;3040895 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *LilOlLady*
> You cannot conceivablely be that stupid and unimformed.
> 
> Jose, Maria and junior illegal are first class Free Loaders and never be more than Free Loaders. Only reason they are here is for the freebies because there is work in Mexico, there is healthcare and there is education. Other reason they are here is because this is America.
> I would like to see Family Illegal do without Americans for one day. No freebies for one day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An illegal Mexican who spend *most of his life fixing roofs *in the US contributes a gazillion times more to the American economy than an american citizen who gets *23 k from the US government every year just for being an Indian*.
> 
> This is *a fact *no matter how much it displeases you.
Click to expand...



No this is not a fact. It's only a fact to Jose. If you think you can put me on a guilt trip, you are wasting you time. The U.S. government will never pay native american enough for what they have stolen. They will never pay afro-american enough either that's why it is never considered.

Steve King call reperation for blacks farmers being discriminated against in the 80s and 90s as reperation for slavery. Fucking idiot racist. 


*Steve King: Black Farmers' Settlement Is 'Slavery Reparations' *


The Senate last week finally approved the multi-billion-dollar funding for the Pigford II and Cobell settlements, which will allow the government to pay out claims to African-American farmers and American Indians who were discriminated against in recent decades by government agencies. Now, the House -- which has passed the funding several times over -- will have to approve it, probably this week. The House, in fact, was voting on procedural motions surrounding the bill as this post was written.

Steve King: Black Farmers' Settlement Is 'Slavery Reparations' (VIDEO) | TPMMuckraker


----------



## Varth Dader

LilOlLady said:


> ...
> They are low income earners and pay very little taxes if any. They take jobs from Americans and lower wages. ...



Are you blaming the undocumented workers for lowering wages and being low income earners?


----------



## LilOlLady

How can the measly amount a few black farmers would collect began to pay reparation for hundred of years of slavery? :think:  :doh:  :eh:
No amount of reparation would give back the families members slaves lost to slavery.


----------



## LilOlLady

Varth Dader said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> They are low income earners and pay very little taxes if any. They take jobs from Americans and lower wages. ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you blaming the undocumented workers for lowering wages and being low income earners?
Click to expand...


They are employed because they work for less than ameican will doing the same jobs. Otherwise they would have jobs. I am not blaming then for being low income earner and uneducated poor of Mexico. They just are. The reason they are here working is *corporations need for cheap labor.*

Phyllis Schlafly, JD, conservative political activist, public speaker, and author, in a Nov. 9, 2004 Human Events article titled *"Get Borders and Illegal Immigration Under Control": *"No Amnesty. Congress should stiffen its backbone against the Bush Administration plan to grant amnesty to illegal aliens... Millions of foreigners are *'willing' to work for a few dollars a day *and *Americans are not willing to work for Third World wages*. Terminate H-1B visas, since the U.S. has thousands of unemployed American engineers and computer specialists."[1] 

Argument: Illegals take jobs from and lower wages for US citizens - Debatepedia


----------



## Varth Dader

LilOlLady said:


> They are employed because they work for less than ameican will doing the same jobs. Otherwise they would have jobs. I am not blaming then for being low income earner and uneducated poor of Mexico. They just are. The reason they are here working is *corporations need for cheap labor.*
> ...



I don't get it... in an day and age where right wingers see the minimum wage as a bad thing, isn't it a good thing these workers bring wages down? Isn't cheap labor a good thing?


----------



## AquaAthena

MaggieMae said:


> I haven't really looked at the Dream Act, but if it doesn't include fast-tracking to citizenship (the wait is now an average of 3 years AFTER payment of hundreds of dollars for application fees along the way), illegal immigrants from Mexico will continue to cross the border.
> 
> That, and I don't know why we can't just go back to the structural bussing to and from the border areas of seasonal workers to do the planting of various fruits and vegetables across the country, and then the harvesting. Anyone remember Caesar Chavez? He was a lone lobbyist for fair wages for California's grape pickers, but those pickers weren't here illegally: They were here on work visas, and it worked out very well.



The Dream Act is posted _in full _on michellemalkin.com, should you be interested in reading it...


----------



## LilOlLady

*Illegal immigrants cannot serve in the military *

It was with great interest that I recently listened to Congressman Jim Clyburn (6th U.S. District for S.C.) tell Fox News Sunday that *&#8220;illegal immigrants served in our military in Iraq and Afghanistan.&#8221; *He apparently made the statement in an attempt to chastise Arizona&#8217;s new anti&#8211;illegal immigration law and to *gain sympathy and support *for illegal immigrants. 

As a U.S. congressman, he should have known better. The truth is that *illegal immigrants cannot serve in our nation&#8217;s military forces*. A quick search on the internet provides multiple sources stating the obvious&#8212;one must be a legal *resident or legal immigrant *to enter the U.S. military. Congressman Clyburn&#8217;s statement was either an oversight on his part or an effort to gain support for illegal immigrants. In any event, his statement is incorrect. 

Archives | www.thecolumbiastar.com | Columbia Star ... itary.html

*Dream Act is a disaster to invite terrorist into our military.:* 

*The rhetoric coming from the left leads you to think that because illegal aliens have served in our military so all illegal aliens should be on a path to citizenship. But the truth is illegals do not serve in our military?? "Hispanics" have served in the military and that do not give all Hispanics the right to citizenship.*


----------



## LilOlLady

*A Stunning Disclosure on Illegals in the Military *March 1, 2004


"The Army has the highest number of *unknowns *- 9,055. The Navy has 6,531, the Air Force 444, the Marines one. Overall, 1,366,032 U.S. citizens and 35,662 legal immigrants serve in the U.S. military." 

"The case of an *Army private from Mexico, who enlisted using a fake green card *and then served in Iraq, suggests some of the *unknowns could be illegal immigrants*. The military has no set procedure for handling these cases. U.S. congressional leaders are looking into the matter ... Some experts see *a security risk*. Military officials say they've had few problems so far, but the 9/11 terrorist attacks raised concerns." 
Site Map - Military.com ... %2C00.html



*Serving in our military is not and should not be a prerequisite to qualifying for citizenship*.


----------



## LilOlLady

Anti-US law called the Dream Act--* unconstitutional *congress at work

December 1st, 2010 6:08 am CT.DHS will have the power of enforcement with this Act.  This is a draconian act of immense costs and totally discriminates against US citizens.  Not to mention it is unconstitutional, anti-US interests, and it further expands the control of gov't.  Check this out:

Two Versions of DREAM Act Await Vote



.


----------



## Care4all

the 2 article's/posts of yours are contradicting no?

So do we, or do we not have illegals in the military?


----------



## RetiredGySgt

Care4all said:


> the 2 article's/posts of yours are contradicting no?
> 
> So do we, or do we not have illegals in the military?



They are not contradictory. It is not legal for illegal aliens to serve in the US military. The military has dropped the ball and not made specific regulations on what to do when they catch one.


----------



## LilOlLady

Care4all said:


> the 2 article's/posts of yours are contradicting no?
> 
> So do we, or do we not have illegals in the military?





That was my question. DO they serve and *we don't know *it or we know they do?

Did all the Mexicans run back to Mexico when the draft open for Vietnam?


----------



## LilOlLady

*Illegal immigrants trying to leave Arizona hassled going south*by Hugh Holub on Aug. 03, 2010, under SB 1070, border issues, politics

Until last year, the government only sporadically checked *vehicles and pedestrians *leaving the United States at all Mexican land ports. However, the Obama administration, in an effort to *intercept weapons and cartel money*, set up full-time checkpoints with barricades on southbound lanes.

Ramirez said the campaign has exceeded expectations in Arizona. Since September, inspectors have seized* $4.7 million in southbound cash *on the Arizona border ($7 million borderwide), and more than 12,000 rounds of ammunition on the Arizona border.

&#8220;On a weekly basis, we make* multiple seizures *and *pick up people who have warrants for rape, child molestation and murder*,&#8221; Ramirez said. He said inspectors, often supported by dogs trained to detect money and firearms, study southbound travelers for body language and bags, as well as other hints of lawbreaking.
Illegal immigrants trying to leave Arizona hassled going south - View From Baja Arizona



100% more than Bush did. They have been leaving since 2007. Reid is trying to *entice them to stay *with the promise of a *path to citizenship (amnesty) and the Dream Act*. They are leaving without us rounding them up, so let them leave.


----------



## bag

LilOlLady said:


> bag said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> ILLEGAL ALIENS MAKE NO CONTRIBUTION.
> 
> Only contribution illegal aliens make is to corporations who want unlimited supply of cheap labor without have to pay health insurance or unemployment benefits and future votes for democrats.
> 
> illegal aliens *pay income tax and social security tax *when they work, be it under false pretenses or not. THAT money goes into federal funds. are some the funds paid by illegals, yes, but not all. why don't you stop *going after immigrants that want to work and support the programs that help YOU *and go after the CORPORATIONS that are breaking the law. that would be republican supported CORPORATIONS. wake up Lil, your anger is misplaced.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal aliens are low wage earners and pay very little in taxes any any and they collect benefits that far out weigh the taxes they pay. Healthcare via ER. Anchor babies education and social services. Incarcerations. Gangs.
> I don't discriminate. I go after corporations, our government and ilegals.
> Illegals killed 25 americans a day, rape 8 children a day not to mention other crimes committed. The price of illegal aliens is to high for americans to pay.
> If they are paying my social security, why is social security going broke and I did not get my COLA last two years, and there are 20 million in this country?
> They are not contributions to the economy either, it is failing. All the rhetoric you hear is coming from pro-illegal immigrants advocates and illegals.
> *They contribute absolute nothing to this country.* I don't see it and I sure as hell don't feel it. They have bankrupt Calif and many hospitals. The reason why they should be deported is too many to mention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> stop flapping your gums and post FACTS about the things you claim. you didn't get your COLA because US corporations are shipping American jobs overseas....hence NO AMERICAN JOBS GAINED TO ADD TO SOCIAL SECURITY. i don't know if you have children but i'll bet they won't do lawn service in the 110 degree heat for 7.50 an hour. THOSE TAXES FOR THE PEOPLE WHO DO, GOES TO THE SOCIAL SECURITY FUND. IT IS ILLEGAL FOR THE EMPLOYERS TO NOT SEND IT TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, BE IT UNDER A FALSE SSI NUMBER OR NOT. get you facts straight, or shut the hell up.
Click to expand...


----------



## hortysir

bag said:


> stop flapping your gums and post FACTS about the things you claim. you didn't get your COLA because US corporations are shipping American jobs overseas....hence NO AMERICAN JOBS GAINED TO ADD TO SOCIAL SECURITY. i don't know if you have children but i'll bet they won't do *lawn service in the 110 degree heat for 7.50 an hour*. THOSE TAXES FOR THE PEOPLE WHO DO, GOES TO THE SOCIAL SECURITY FUND. IT IS ILLEGAL FOR THE EMPLOYERS TO NOT SEND IT TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, BE IT UNDER A FALSE SSI NUMBER OR NOT. get you facts straight, or shut the hell up.


What? You can't mow your own lawn so you justify it by allowing people in the country illegally to do it for you.
Brother, brother-in-law, nephew, son-in-law, two of my sons, and grandson-in-law.
These are the people in my family that own and operate their own lawn care businesses.
They are all white Americans and none of them employee Mexicans (legal or illegal).
So you can save the "they do work that we don't want" bullshit for somebody else.


----------



## Bullfighter

AquaAthena said:


> [The Dream Act is posted _in full _on michellemalkin.com, should you be interested in reading it...


 
Here it is at the Library of Congress:

Bill Text - 111th Congress (2009-2010) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)::

Link doesn't bring you directly to it. Just search S3992.


----------



## RespectForVets

If they were here legal, and paid taxed, we wouldn't have a problem with them.


----------



## LilOlLady

ILLEGAL ALIENS HAS NOT FIXED OUR ECONOMY.

Has not fixed social security and not anything and thats another dead horse we need to stop beating.
We have 20 million tax paying illegal aliens in this country since the 1986 amnesty and we are in a recession with millions of Americans and illegal aliens unemployed, seniors havent got a COLA for two years, section 8 program is closed indefinitely and we have trillions in debt and cannot pay for two wars. So why the hell is Obama an Reid even considering the Dream Act that will add to our military debt and Comprehensive Immigration Reform that will put million of illegal aliens on a path to citizenship and cause the biggest Chain Migration this country has ever seen. 
How do these dreamers intend to pay for the Dream Act and Comprehensive Immigration Reform?
Its long past time for another Operation Wet Back to open up jobs for Americans and cut the cost of illegal immigration. Not the time for open borders and chain migration.
The old rhetoric that we need illegal aliens is beating another dead  horse. The past 24 years since the last amnesty has proven that. Illegal aliens fixes  nothing.


----------



## LilOlLady

Barbara is now speaking about how much we need children of illegal aliens. If we need them so much, just think of how much Mexico needs them. No matter how long they have been here, Mexico is their home and Mexico need them. If they would make OUR country a better place, how much better they could make Mexico for all Mexicans so they will not have to come here against their will. Millions of Mexican children in Mexico needs a better life? No, the Deam Act is not the best thing for Mexico and Mexicans. Going home to Mexico is not a punishment, it is an honor to serve your country and make it a better place for all Mexicans. Dream Act is a nightmare for us and for Mexico. 
IT IS NOT A PUNISHMENT. What about the MEXICAN DREAM? The Dream Act will kill the Mexican Dream.


----------



## naomibee

LilOlLady said:


> Barbara is now speaking about how much we need children of illegal aliens. If we need them so much, just think of how much Mexico needs them. No matter how long they have been here, Mexico is their home and Mexico need them. If they would make OUR country a better place, how much better they could make Mexico for all Mexicans so they will not have to come here against their will. Millions of Mexican children in Mexico needs a better life? No, the Deam Act is not the best thing for Mexico and Mexicans. Going home to Mexico is not a punishment, it is an honor to serve your country and make it a better place for all Mexicans. Dream Act is a nightmare for us and for Mexico.
> IT IS NOT A PUNISHMENT. What about the MEXICAN DREAM? The Dream Act will kill the Mexican Dream.



with obama he thinks he can change every thing.


----------



## LilOlLady

bag said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bag said:
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal aliens are low wage earners and pay very little in taxes any any and they collect benefits that far out weigh the taxes they pay. Healthcare via ER. Anchor babies education and social services. Incarcerations. Gangs.
> I don't discriminate. I go after corporations, our government and ilegals.
> Illegals killed 25 americans a day, rape 8 children a day not to mention other crimes committed. The price of illegal aliens is to high for americans to pay.
> If they are paying my social security, why is social security going broke and I did not get my COLA last two years, and there are 20 million in this country?
> They are not contributions to the economy either, it is failing. All the rhetoric you hear is coming from pro-illegal immigrants advocates and illegals.
> *They contribute absolute nothing to this country.* I don't see it and I sure as hell don't feel it. They have bankrupt Calif and many hospitals. The reason why they should be deported is too many to mention.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> stop flapping your gums and post FACTS about the things you claim. *you didn't get your COLA because US corporations are shipping American jobs overseas*....hence NO AMERICAN JOBS GAINED TO ADD TO SOCIAL SECURITY. i don't know if you have children but i'll bet they won't do lawn service in the *110 degree heat for 7.50 an hour*. THOSE TAXES FOR THE PEOPLE WHO DO, GOES TO THE SOCIAL SECURITY FUND. IT IS ILLEGAL FOR THE EMPLOYERS TO NOT SEND IT TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, BE IT UNDER A FALSE SSI NUMBER OR NOT. get you facts straight, or shut the hell up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hello I do my own lawn work and I am 71 years old. I have never lived in 110 degree heat in my 71 years????
> My social security is not being paid by illegal aliens. They don't pay for anything. So who's lip are flapping? Post the facts or shut the hell up.
> 
> The taxes they pay if any is very little and the benefits they and their children receive cancels that out.
Click to expand...


----------



## bag

lil,

that nothing is put into the US treasury...and laugh as you might...they'll NEVER COLLECT  on the taxes they pay in. but YOU get the benefit. that is sick.


----------



## LilOlLady

*   CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME *

The Dream Act helps children in this country illegally to get through college, after we have helped them get though high school, get on a path to citizenship and get a job and better serve this country? How about helping our own children get through college and get a job. Most of them enter the service only to get an education because they cannot get the help needed to get an education first and better serve this country. 

Let Mexico worry about its own. No matter *how they got here or how long they are been here *they are still *Mexican citizens. *

Were are the jobs for them coming from? College graduates are not finding jobs now and you want *our children and their parents *to compete with those who are in this country illegally? Why make it harder for them by having them compete for jobs with illegals? 

We dont have jobs for them or their parents or for millions of our own. They *do not create jobs *or there would be jobs for the 20 million that are here.

Children of Mexico can better serve us by going home and making a better Mexico for all Mexicans so they do not have to come here for a better life.*We dont need them, but Mexico do.*

If we have to keep them here, let them serve in our *military first*, then help them through college, then on a path to citizenship and them a job. Let them *prove themselves and earn citizenship.*


----------



## Madeline




----------



## Madeline

A vote on the DREAM Act is expected today and we must stop it. Call (202) 224-3121 and tell your Members of Congress to vote NO on the DREAM Act.


----------



## Bullfighter

Madeline said:


> A vote on the DREAM Act is expected today and we must stop it. Call (202) 224-3121 and tell your Members of Congress to vote NO on the DREAM Act.


 
I don't have a phone with long distance. I am just a poor white American. Can I call collect?


----------



## LilOlLady

*DREAM ACT IS THE SIBLING OF THE ANCHOR BABY ACT*

As if the Anchor Baby Act did not create a nightmare, we are now getting the Dream Act. The illegal alien is a family unit. And they must be treated as a family unit.  We cannot put one member on a path to citizenship and deport the other members. Dream Act will further separate families or bring them all together on a path to citizenship. 

Immigrants that came through Ellis Island came as a unit. They qualified to enter as a family unit. We have the illegal alien parent, the anchor babies and now the Dream Act children. That is a nightmare of a family. Some are American citizens, some will be put on a path to citizenship and some will not because they will not finish high school, attend college or enter the military. 

*What do we do with the parent and the sibling who do not qualify to be put on a path to citizenship*?

*Dream Act like the Anchor Baby Act is not just about the children but about every illegal alien in this country and those not here. *

We are not going to deport the parents or the other siblings so this Dream Act is not about the innocent children who were brought here of no fault of their own. They did not come here alone and we cannot treat them as such.

This Dream Act for some of the children will put the entire family of illegal aliens on a path to citizenship. Some of those family member are criminals, in prison and in gangs.

This Dream Act is just a ploy for amnesty for millions and chain migration.

If the Dream Act passes, we can kiss any hope of ever controlling  illegal immigration and securing the border good by.


----------



## LilOlLady

ILLEGAL ALIENS; THE UNTOUCHABLES.



215 members of the House ignored the will of the American people and voted for the Dream Act that will put some of illegal aliens children on a path to citizenship and clear the path for their parents and siblings to stay here untouched. 

Call it amnesty or a path to citizenship it still means they get to stay here ahead of those waiting legally to enter. And it sends them the message that no matter how you get here bring a child and you can stay. 



This is the nightmare; 

There are anchor babies who are children of illegal aliens who were born here and are American citizens.

There are children who were brought here illegally by their parents and some of them will be put on a path to citizenship if the complete 2 years of college or 2 years in our military. (at our expense)

Then there are those children of illegal aliens who dont want to go to school, who dont want to enter the military.

Then we have those children of illegal aliens who are gang members, who are drug dealers, who are in our prisons, who are committing criminal acts and not caught. What will the Dream Act mean for them?

Then we have the illegal alien parent that cause this nightmare and is subject to deportation, but uses the excuse that deportation would separate them from their Anchor babies. Now that have another excuse. The Dream Act.



Then how do we fix this nightmare of illegal immigration? We simple dont. Our leaders dont have the will to fix it because it has not yet touched their lives. But if it touches ours, sooner or later it will touch theirs. When children of illegal aliens and illegal aliens began controlling the country and we are living the same nightmare Mexico is and then it will be too late. American is screwed.


----------



## get_involved

*Here's how:* MELT THE PHONES DOWN AMERICA Keep Calling The Senate


----------



## Madeline




----------



## bigrebnc1775

Thanks but didn't it pass today?

Never mind found the answer.

Side note I think every illegal should live in any state that it's representive supports immagration reform. such as harry's state.


----------



## get_involved

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Thanks but didn't it pass today?



It passed the House yesterday and they held off the vote today in the Senate until next week (not enough votes to pass). Reid delayed the vote so he can arm twist enough Senators to vote for it. Our Senators need to hear from us now because there are PRO_ amnesty people calling also.


----------



## loosecannon

I can't even fucking believe that our legislators are even on the fence over this shit. 

Even more amazing is that we aren't rioting or tying those reps to poles and piling on old pallets, tires and cardboard.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

loosecannon said:


> I can't even fucking believe that our legislators are even on the fence over this shit.
> 
> Even more amazing is that we aren't rioting or tying those reps to poles and piling on old pallets, tires and cardboard.



All the democrats have done is created more unemployed citizens. All for a new voter base.


----------



## LilOlLady

DREAM ACT TODAY; AMNESTY TOMORROW

If administrations and congress since 1954 had enforced our immigration laws we would not have had a 1986 amnesty and be dealing with 30 million illegal aliens, 500.000 anchor babies and unknown number of illegal children and a Dream Act.  There has been 10 Administrations since 1954 and Operation Wetback and none have enforced our immigration laws and secured our border and none of the acts, 1986 Amnesty, etc have done any thing to control illegal immigration and secured our border. Then why do we continue with the status quo? Dream Act now means full blown Amnesty tomorrow and that is not a fix and acceptable to the American people. 

Dream Act, Comprehensive Immigration Reform or amnesty will not control illegal immigration and secure our border. So lets&#8217; try some serious enforcement like Operation Wetback. Why do we keep making the same mistake over and over.

Remember what Operation Wetback did for this country, the economy, illegal immigration and the unemployed?

Operation Wetback - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0706/p09s01-coop.html


----------



## LilOlLady

*MINORITIES IN SCHOOL IN RENO.*

*Smithridge Elementary School*Percentage of minorities: 93.03%   Number of minorities: 614   Total students enrolled: 660
Percentage of minorities:* 93.03%* 
*Number of minorities: 614* 
Total students enrolled: 660 

Washoe schools - percentage of minorities - Google Maps


*Smithridge Elementary School*

*Overview*Smithridge Elementary School enrolls 660 preschool and elementary school students from grades PK-5. It is located in Reno, NV, which is a highly populated city with a predominantly White community and a median household income of $40,530. This school is part of the Washoe School District, which has a total student enrollment of 65,876.

The large staff, including forty-one full-time "equivalent" teachers, serves the student body with an average student teacher ratio of 15.9. The *majority of students enrolled are Hispanic*, making up about *eighty-seven percent *of all students.

Being eligible for a school-wide *Title I program*, this school has access to *state and federal assistance *to help low-income and at risk students. Also, about fourteen percent of the students can obtain lunch for free or at a reduced cost.

To view nearby public and private schools click here.
Smithridge Elementary School in Reno, Nevada / NV - Profile, Address, Alumni, Reviews,...


----------



## LilOlLady

*Half-measures aren't the way to fix our immigration system*

This nation's broken immigration system is not going to be fixed with *half-measures like the Dream Act*, which is facing an almost sure defeat in the closing days of the current Congress.
Editorial: Half-measures aren't the way to fix our immigration system | rgj.com | The Reno Gazette-Journal


----------



## LilOlLady

If approved, it would have allowed youngsters who came to the U.S. before they were 16 a chance to become citizens *if *they demonstrated success in college or served in the military. For the most part, these are kids who have done everything that we would expect of our own children. They have *no connections in other countries, aren't criminals *and, because they're educated, won't be living on welfare. Most would be *excellent, tax-paying citizens* ... if only they could be citizens.
Editorial: Half-measures aren't the way to fix our immigration system | rgj.com | The Reno Gazette-Journal

*NO *connection to other countries? What do you call their parents *home, language and culture*? Every exucse in the book have been use and still the only thing that makes any sense is to *send them ALL home.*
What *IF* they don't want to go to school and enter the militray? All are not in school getting an education and law abiding citizerns. Most every family has a *gang member or a criminal.*


----------



## LilOlLady

If have enough American children who want to go to school and get an education and pay taxes and contribute to the country but cannot afford to go to college. And anchor babies are getting all the grant and getting all the jobs to help them through school. Let's help our own first and them we will not need aliens..


----------



## Wolfmoon

MORE WOOL PULLED OVER THE SHEEPS EYES!

The Dream Act will cost Billions of dollars to American Taxpayers. It will also, allow criminals up to the age of 35 to take advantage of the benefits paid by the taxpayers. If they legalize these people (illegal aliens) they can petition to bring into America up to 9 relatives a piece legally. The minute they get a green card they'll be eligible for welfare and other public services.

-----

Immigration Reform: What Will The Dream Act Cost Americans

&#8220;Dream is an acronym for Development, Relief & Education for Alien Minors. Illegal aliens who qualify will be able to take advantage of federal and state funding programs such as grants and higher education loans.&#8221;
[URL]http://www.usmoneytalk.com/finance/immigration-reform-what-will-the-dream-act-cost-americans-909/comment-page-1/[/URL]

----

More Reid DREAM Act - More Costs to Taxpayers

&#8220;According to FoxNews.com Stephen Clark&#8217;s December 02, 2010 online article, &#8220;DREAM Act Would Cost Taxpayers $6.2 BILLION Per Year&#8230;&#8220;per the Center for Immigration Studies. That&#8217;s where the problem begins. It gets worse when all the facts are uncovered; facts that Democrat supporters of the Act, led by Senator Harry Reid, D-NV are not making public and hoping they will stay below the radar undetected.
&#8220;The $6.2 billion per year of costs for this atrocious piece of legislation was just the estimate covering the illegal children already in this country, but these children will beget hundreds, thousands and millions more because not only will those under 35 years of age get multiple benefits from it, but the potential for those children to be able to sponsor their other relatives until the country is overrun with unwanted hordes of foreigners, along with the illegals that pour across the border almost unmolested thanks to Obama.&#8221;
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/30670

----

Republicans Slam DREAM Act for Including Immigrants With Criminal Records

(The Dream Act not so innocent)

&#8220;Republicans are grousing about what they argue is a glaring loophole that allows illegal immigrant criminals to qualify for a green card.&#8221;
&#8220;According to a memo circulated by GOP aides on the Senate Judiciary Committee, there are a host of crimes illegal immigrants would be allowed to commit and still qualify -- assault, domestic violence, sexual abuse, reckless driving and various types of fraud among them.&#8221; 

Republicans Slam DREAM Act for Including Immigrants With Criminal Records - FoxNews.com

-----



*Contact Elected Officials: And give them a piece of your mind.*
http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml

TELL THEM *TO KILL THE DREAM ACT* AND TO SECURE OUR PORTS & BORDERS, ASAP!

*TOLL FREE NUMBERS:*

Capital Switch Board:

1 (866) 220-0044
1 (800) 862-5530
1 (877) 851-6437

US Congressional Switch Board

1 (800) 833-6354
1 (866) 340-9281
1 (877) 762-8762

.


----------



## Wolfmoon

KILL THE DREAM ACT NOW!  EVERYONE ATTACK THE DREAM ACT!!!  THERE'S NO TIME TO WAIT, DO IT NOW!!!

*Contact Elected Officials: And give them a piece of your mind.*
http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml

TELL THEM TO *KILL THE DREAM ACT* AND SECURE OUR PORTS & BORDERS, ASAP!

*TOLL FREE NUMBERS:*

Capital Switch Board:

1 (866) 220-0044
1 (800) 862-5530
1 (877) 851-6437

US Congressional Switch Board

1 (800) 833-6354
1 (866) 340-9281
1 (877) 762-8762

.


----------



## Wolfmoon

KILL THE DREAM ACT NOW!  EVERYONE ATTACK THE DREAM ACT!!!  THERE'S NO TIME TO WAIT, DO IT NOW!!!

*Contact Elected Officials: And give them a piece of your mind.*
http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml

TELL THEM TO *KILL THE DREAM ACT* AND SECURE OUR PORTS & BORDERS, ASAP!

*TOLL FREE NUMBERS:*

Capital Switch Board:

1 (866) 220-0044
1 (800) 862-5530
1 (877) 851-6437

US Congressional Switch Board

1 (800) 833-6354
1 (866) 340-9281
1 (877) 762-8762

.


----------



## Wolfmoon

KILL THE DREAM ACT NOW!  EVERYONE ATTACK THE DREAM ACT!!!  THERE'S NO TIME TO WAIT, DO IT NOW!!!

*Contact Elected Officials: And give them a piece of your mind.*
http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml

TELL THEM TO *KILL THE DREAM ACT* AND SECURE OUR PORTS & BORDERS, ASAP!

*TOLL FREE NUMBERS:*

Capital Switch Board:

1 (866) 220-0044
1 (800) 862-5530
1 (877) 851-6437

US Congressional Switch Board

1 (800) 833-6354
1 (866) 340-9281
1 (877) 762-8762

.


----------



## Wolfmoon

_They&#8217;re bringing kids in by the droves to take advantage of The Dream Act.  Fraud and identity theft will be rampant!_
*Phoenix cops: 11 smuggled kids found at house *
*Suspects allegedly tried to extort money from some parents, threatening sexual assault *
Phoenix cops: 11 smuggled kids found at house - U.S. news - Crime & courts - msnbc.com


----------



## Coyote

Ah....feel the hate


----------



## Intense

Merged.


----------



## Wolfmoon

Why give any of them amnesty when it's cheaper to deport them all. Let them go back to their countries of origin and make their own countries a better place to live. Most Anchor babies parents don't speak a word of English so, I'm sure they know their native language!

*DHS confirms cheaper to deport every illegal alien than allowing them to stay*

DHS confirms cheaper to deport every illegal alien than allowing them to stay - National Immigration reform | Examiner.com

12/08/10

Department of Homeland Security (DHS) put into writing to several Senators; &#8220;Our conservative estimate suggests that ICE would require a budget of more than $135 billion to apprehend, detain and remove the nation&#8217;s entire illegal immigrant population.&#8221;

According to a recent study by FAIR (Federation for American Immigration Reform) the costs to keep illegal aliens in America costs taxpayers $113 BILLION a year.

&#8220;In other words, the mass deportation would pay for itself in a little over a year.&#8221; 

.


----------



## Wolfmoon

The legal and illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the United States. 

CNN.com - Transcripts

.


----------



## LilOlLady

*ONLY ONE SOLUTION TO ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION*
(ENFORCEMENT AT THE WORK PLACE)

Comprehensive Immigration Reform is only a temporary fix and does nothing to address the next influx of illegal aliens. 

We are not a nation of illegal immigrants but of legal immigrants. 

If I and my husband take our children *against their will *with us to commit a crime and are caught, we are carted off to jail and our children or carted off  by social services and that is the *consequences of our actions*. When illegal aliens bring children with them across the border illegally *against their will *and when they are caught the parents are deported and the children should go back across the border just as they came and that is the *consequences of the actions of their parents*. Illegal aliens who break the law do not get a *get out of jail card* because of their children.

I have to obey the laws of this land or I suffer the consequences and illegal aliens should suffer the consequences of their actions. 

Illegal immigration is not a change that we have to accept and stated by Rosario Dawson; A town in Ga. passed law against illegal aliens and the illegals along with legal and citizens left and the town was devastated. Well, what do you think happens to Mexico when 20 million of its citizens leave?

Beyond Borderlines was a documentary all about Latinos in the country illegally and why is that when illegal aliens are from many countries? Because the majority of illegals are Latinos and they are the cause of the majority of the problems illegal immigration causes this country. Latino gangs, anchor babies, drug dealers or incarcerations, rapist, murderers, etc. 

Illegal immigration is about families and they should be treated as a unit. We cannot separate the hard working illegal aliens , the anchor baby, the illegal children, the gang members, drug dealer and other criminals because they are a unit. A family.

The illegal alien parents brought the illegal child with them across the border of no choice of their own and when the parent is deported they should take the children they brought with them back across the border. 

What do we do with the 20 million that are here? All the country need to be on the same* Arizona on steroids* system. We dont round them up, put them on busses and deport them. We make it impossible for them to work here with strict E-Verify system with systematic raids on the business, no arrest, detainments and deportation, and they will soon find they cannot work and they will leave and they will not come. Make it impossible for businesses to hire illegal aliens.

Why Comprehensive Immigration Reform will not work? Illegal aiens will be given legal status with a path to citizenship and they will make demands of businesses for higher and fair wages and then they will be fired and replaced with American workers because they will no longer be cheap labor which now replace legal workers. Even legal immigrant are displaced. They, because of their legal status, will become wards of the welfare system as the expense of the tax payers. Creating a bigger problem than being illegal every been. Legalizing 20 million illegal aliens will create a bigger problem than we could every imagine. The will not be in the workforce, paying taxes as pro-illegals claim, they will we in the welfare system living off taxes paid. Illegal aliens now out of work is either living off their anchor babies or committing crime.  Illegal aliens crossing the border now and not finding work is committing crimes.   

There is only one solution to illegal immigration.* Enforcement at the work place*. Enforcement of our immigration of our immigration laws are not racist or inhumane. All our laws work when they are enforced. Our immigration system is not broken our government is broken for not enforcing our immigration laws. We can make more immigration laws (Comprehensive Immigration Reform) but if they are not enforce they do not work.

It is *un-American and unpatriotic to be pro-illegal immigration or pro-amnesty*. There is only one way to attain citizenship and that is according to the citizenship laws.

Comprehensive Immigration Reform and the Dream Act is doing away with immigration laws and amnesty now mean amnesty tomorrow.


----------



## LilOlLady

If the 10 administrations and congress since 1954 had enforced our immigration laws we would not be dealing with 30 million illegal aliens, 500.000 anchor babies and unknown number of illegal children and a Dream Act. 

We cannot give citizenship to 20 million illegal aliens based of a few law abiding hard working illegal aliens. We admit 1.1 million immigrants to citizenship each year. Our immigration system works.the


----------



## LilOlLady

Wolfmoon said:


> MORE WOOL PULLED OVER THE SHEEPS EYES!
> 
> The Dream Act will cost Billions of dollars to American Taxpayers. It will also, allow criminals up to the age of 35 to take advantage of the benefits paid by the taxpayers. If they legalize these people (illegal aliens) they can petition to bring into America up to 9 relatives a piece legally. The minute they get a green card they'll be eligible for welfare and other public services.
> 
> -----
> 
> Immigration Reform: What Will The Dream Act Cost Americans
> 
> Dream is an acronym for Development, Relief & Education for Alien Minors. Illegal aliens who qualify will be able to take advantage of federal and state funding programs such as grants and higher education loans.
> [URL]http://www.usmoneytalk.com/finance/immigration-reform-what-will-the-dream-act-cost-americans-909/comment-page-1/[/URL]
> 
> ----
> 
> More Reid DREAM Act - More Costs to Taxpayers
> 
> According to FoxNews.com Stephen Clarks December 02, 2010 online article, DREAM Act Would Cost Taxpayers $6.2 BILLION Per Yearper the Center for Immigration Studies. Thats where the problem begins. It gets worse when all the facts are uncovered; facts that Democrat supporters of the Act, led by Senator Harry Reid, D-NV are not making public and hoping they will stay below the radar undetected.
> The $6.2 billion per year of costs for this atrocious piece of legislation was just the estimate covering the illegal children already in this country, but these children will beget hundreds, thousands and millions more because not only will those under 35 years of age get multiple benefits from it, but the potential for those children to be able to sponsor their other relatives until the country is overrun with unwanted hordes of foreigners, along with the illegals that pour across the border almost unmolested thanks to Obama.
> http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/30670
> 
> ----
> 
> Republicans Slam DREAM Act for Including Immigrants With Criminal Records
> 
> (The Dream Act not so innocent)
> 
> Republicans are grousing about what they argue is a glaring loophole that allows illegal immigrant criminals to qualify for a green card.
> According to a memo circulated by GOP aides on the Senate Judiciary Committee, there are a host of crimes illegal immigrants would be allowed to commit and still qualify -- assault, domestic violence, sexual abuse, reckless driving and various types of fraud among them.
> 
> Republicans Slam DREAM Act for Including Immigrants With Criminal Records - FoxNews.com
> 
> -----
> 
> 
> 
> *Contact Elected Officials: And give them a piece of your mind.*
> http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml
> 
> TELL THEM *TO KILL THE DREAM ACT* AND TO SECURE OUR PORTS & BORDERS, ASAP!
> 
> *TOLL FREE NUMBERS:*
> 
> Capital Switch Board:
> 
> 1 (866) 220-0044
> 1 (800) 862-5530
> 1 (877) 851-6437
> 
> US Congressional Switch Board
> 
> 1 (800) 833-6354
> 1 (866) 340-9281
> 1 (877) 762-8762
> 
> .




The money that will be spent on the Dream Act could send lots of American children to school giving them the chance for the American dream. This is about as senseless as a bucket of hose crap.


----------



## rdean

Hopkins Medicine Magazine - The Alfredo Story







From illegal migrant worker to Hopkins brain surgeon: It sounds like a movie plot, but the leading man now walks Hopkins' hallways. 

BY David Dudley 

-----------------------------------------------

This is where all the Republican and conservative hilarity pops up.  Here is an illegal alien who is now one of the top brain surgeons in the world saving American lives.  

So Republicans, the party that is home to less than 6% of American scientists, says, "But an American could have that position only he got it because he's an illegal alien".  You can bet this guy registers at about the top 1% of talent in the world.  You don't get to be a brain surgeon because you bumped someone else out of line.

Really, you guys tickle me pink.  Really and truly hilarious.


----------



## LilOlLady

PATH TO CITIZENSHIP MY ARSE.:

Teen made $50,000 smuggling drugs across border.

Danny Santos has a new goal now. He's training as a professional boxer. Sitting in high school, math and history lessons never captured Danny Santos' imagination. The drug-fueled streets of the Texas-Mexico border provided his education, and he was an excellent student.

Santos says he became one of the thousands of American and Mexican teenagers recruited into the dangerous world of drug smuggling.

"I didn't care. I had no conscience," Santos said at a boxing gym in El Paso, Texas. 

"You're young, and you're naïve, and you think it's easy."

Teen made $50,000 smuggling drugs across border - CNN


----------



## ABikerSailor

Hey, Big Old Bitch, what's with the "path to citizenship" title?

Oh.........forgot.........you're a racist twat lipped **** who likes to stir up shit because you're scared of the brown and black people.


----------



## ForestGirl

*Please go to numbersusa.com/content/ - register and log into your ACTION BOARD and fax and call accordingly. 

It's SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SIMPLE TO DO! Takes just minutes. 


Next week is CRITICAL! They will also e-mail you alerts when they need help. *


----------



## Wolfmoon

rdean,

Just because you're willing to break the laws and steal and expect everything for free still doesn't make it right.  Your doctor should go back to his native Mexico, they're in short supply of doctors there.  He took some deserving American students place when he decided to cheat, rob, steal the American Dream.  Come the right way or don't come at all, I don't care how smart you are.  OBEY THE IMMIGRATION LAWS!  

Why should illegal aliens get to break multiple laws without consequences?  Americans are bound to obey the laws in America, why not illegal aliens from foreign countries?


----------



## Wolfmoon

"The Pew Hispanic Center study from February 2009 found that even though Hispanics make up 13 percent of the adult population, they accounted for 40 percent of sentenced federal offenders in 2007." 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/29/border-states-dealing-illegal-immigrant-crime-data-suggests/
 

A report shows 75% of illegal aliens have less than a 6th grade education. Over 71% have children. 30% admit of using forged social security cards, and half of them have done so, for more than 5 years.

http://www.thesocialcontract.com/pdf/three-one/sandiego.pdf


----------



## Wolfmoon

Every day 12 Americans are murdered by an illegal alien. Another 13 Americans are killed by uninsured drunk illegal aliens and 8 American Children are victims of a sex crime committed by an illegal alien each and every day! 

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/ia05_king/col_20060505_bite.html


----------



## rdean

Wolfmoon said:


> rdean,
> 
> Just because you're willing to break the laws and steal and expect everything for free still doesn't make it right.  Your doctor should go back to his native Mexico, they're in short supply of doctors there.  He took some deserving American students place when he decided to cheat, rob, steal the American Dream.  Come the right way or don't come at all, I don't care how smart you are.  OBEY THE IMMIGRATION LAWS!
> 
> Why should illegal aliens get to break multiple laws without consequences?  Americans are bound to obey the laws in America, why not illegal aliens from foreign countries?



Oh you guys are truly hilarious.

Look at Bush and McCain.  Bush was jumped over thousands of others with higher grades because of his father's connections, same with McCain.  Bush graduated with a C minus average and became the worst president in American history.

McCain graduated 5th FROM THE BOTTOM out of eight hundred and ninety nine cadets.  And almost became a president as bad or worse than Bush.

We need to find talent and develop it no matter where it came from.  If right wingers refuse to go into science or become highly educated, then the talent has to come from somewhere.  

Like I said, becoming a world renowned brain surgeon isn't just "bumping someone" out of line.  You have to score in the top 1%.  Not a C minus, not 5th from the bottom.

In fact, there should be slots at all universities in every field where students compete for those slots, don't have to pay, and the only "stipulation" is they live in this country for 10 years after graduating.  Results through competition.


----------



## LilOlLady

ABikerSailor said:


> Hey, Big Old Bitch, what's with the "path to citizenship" title?
> 
> Oh.........forgot.........you're a racist twat lipped **** who likes to stir up shit because you're scared of the brown and black people.




*Ignorant Little Bitch*, my family is *white, brown and black*.
What part of illegal do you not want to understand and acknowledge.?


----------



## LilOlLady

Are these the kind of children we want in our military and as American citizens?


----------



## LilOlLady

*FOR SALE; ISLAND IN DEATH VALLEY

An island in Death Valley is easier to sell to the American people than the Dream Act and Comprehensive Immigration Reform (amnesty) with some of the rhetoric coming from pro-amnesty advocates that support the Dream Act and Comprehensive Immigration Reform.*

1---They, the children, don&#8217;t know anything but this country.

*BS. If some of the came here at age 16, they don&#8217;t speak English and don&#8217;t know our culture and never fully fit in here. Those born here or came here as babies enter school and still cannot speak English but speak the language of their parents and know the culture. Going to Mexico would not be a culture shock as those who came here experienced. The reason why some of them join gangs is because they do not fit in and many of the parents were gangs member too.*
2---We cannot round up 20 million illegal aliens, put them on busses and deport them. We do not have enough ICE agents and it would cost too much. So the only thing we can do now it let them stay and put them on a path to citizenship. But they will have to &#8220;earn&#8221; citizenship by paying a fine, paying back taxes, learning English and going to the back of the line. 

*BS. No one is suggesting that we round them up like cattle but put the E-Verify system in place and monitor businesses  systemically to make sure it is working and if they cannot work they will take their families and leave and they will not come. No arrest, detainments and deportations are needed.

Earn citizenship? Why would they pay a fine if they only want legal status and citizenship may take up to 20 years? How do would you figure how much back taxes is to be paid? Learning English is not a punishment and the end of the line begins in Mexico and not at the nearest Immigration Center.*

3---We cannot deport them because some of them have been here for 20 years and have children that are American citizens. So we cannot deport the parents and separate them from their children.

*BS. There is no statue of limitations on illegal immigration. Some of them left families back in Mexico when they came here separating families. There is no law that keeps them from taking their children with them when they are deported*.

4---Economically we need them to pay for our social security. To do the jobs American will not do. Illegal aliens create a &#8220;surplus&#8221; in our economy? LMAO.

*BS. Illegal aliens are low wage earners and pay very little in taxes if any and the benefits their anchor babies receive, welfare check, food stamps, Medicaid, public housing, emergency room medical care far outweigh the contribution they may make through any federal or state taxes paid.
20 million illegal aliens are not picking lettuce in 107* heat, cleaning toilets and washing dishes.
There are no jobs American will not and has not done. I with other Americans picked cotton dragging a 100 lb sack of cotton in 110* heat for 3.5 cent a lb.*

5---Illegal aliens commit &#8220;less&#8221; crimes than American citizens or legal immigrants. They are only hard working law abiding people who only want to make a better life for their families.

*BS. &#8221;Less&#8221; is not the point. We have more than enough criminals of our own and we do not have to import more. 20 million illegal aliens are not all hard working law abiding people. We have no way of knowing who are criminals and who are not because of the many aliases and false identifications. Jose may have a criminal record and as Juan he may not.
Illegal aliens; Kill 25 Americans daily. Rape 8 children daily. Make up more then 50% or criminals in prison. Make up the MS13s the most dangerous gangs in American and other Latino gangs and drug dealers.*

6---Illegal aliens only come here for a better life. To work and take care of their families and have the American dream.

*BS. They do not cross the border starving, homeless and penniless. Some of them pay as much as $10,000 to human smugglers. Some of them quit jobs to come here. The do not come for a &#8220;better life&#8221; but for the life we have to offer them at our expense. All the government freebies . Have and anchor babies and hit the jack pot. Bring your criminal talents and reap the more lucrative benefits that committing crimes here has to offer.
If things are so dire in Mexico, why since 2007 have they been returning to Mexico by the thousands? With permission from the Mexican Embassy to enter with their anchor babies. Mexico has had to prepare socially for the mass influx of Mexicans returning. And our leaders are trying to entice them to stay with promise of the Dream Act and Comprehensive Immigration Reform. (amnesty)*

7---The most outrageous excuse I&#8217;ve heard in support of the Dream Act is those children brought here as babies and have been here for year attending high school, going to college and graduating cannot work because they are illegal. (so the Dream Act is needed to make them contributing citizens to this country) 

*BS. You want me to believe they have  been here for years, attend school, going to college and have never worked?

Every excuse imaginable has been used by pro-amnesty advocate to support the Dream Act and Comprehensive Immigration Reform, amnesty for 20 million illegal aliens.

We cannot give citizenship to 20 million illegal aliens based of a few law abiding hard working illegal aliens. We admit 1.1 million immigrants to citizenship each year. Our immigration system works.

The money the Dream Act will cost would send thousands of American children to school who want to go but cannot afford to and give them a chance to the American dream. Dream Act will take all that away and their dream.

The rhetoric for the Dream Act and Comprehensive Immigration Reform has got to stop and reality need to set in. This is all destructive for America and American and will do nothing to fix illegal immigration and secure our border.*


----------



## asterism

LilOlLady said:


> Are these the kind of children we want in our military and as American citizens?



Leftists?  No, that's why most of them stay out of the military and spend their time trying to turn America into Western Europe.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Why the Lame Duck Session of Congress is So Dangerous*By: Floyd Brown

To understand Washington DC, you have to first stop listening to the rhetoric, and start watching the behavior. As TV character Michael Weston aptly puts it, Watch my actions, not my words. Underneath all the bluster, we live in a single party country where the Republicans and Democrats are just different factions of a big-government loving elite feasting on the plunder of an enormous bureaucracy.

"Why the Lame Duck Session of Congress is So Dangerous" - Patriot Update


----------



## Mad Scientist

Illegals are here because:

They get social benefits.
Employers hire them.
There are Sanctuary Cities.
There's no Southern Border fence.
There's no enforcement of current immigration laws.

How would this bill fix any of that? Oh yeah, it won't.


----------



## Coyote

ForestGirl said:


> *Please go to numbersusa.com/content/ - register and log into your ACTION BOARD and fax and call accordingly.
> 
> It's SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SIMPLE TO DO! Takes just minutes.
> 
> 
> Next week is CRITICAL! They will also e-mail you alerts when they need help. *



Why?


----------



## Wolfmoon

ForestGirl said:


> *Please go to numbersusa.com/content/ - register and log into your ACTION BOARD and fax and call accordingly. *
> 
> *It's SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SIMPLE TO DO! Takes just minutes. *
> 
> 
> *Next week is CRITICAL! They will also e-mail you alerts when they need help. *


 
*STOP THESE LAW BREAKERS IN THEIR TRACKS!*



Thanks! Here's the Link.

Register | NumbersUSA - For Lower Immigration Levels

*choose:*

*Urge your U.S. Representatives to Oppose Pelosi's DREAM Amnesty!*


----------



## Wolfmoon

We're importing more cheap labor and criminals we have to support!  What the Hell is wrong with our politicians???

In 2007, legal and illegal aliens cost the federal government more than $346 BILLION dollars and the U.S. taxpayers paid more than $ 9,000. for each immigrant in the country!
http://www.esrresearch.com/Rubensteinreport.pdf


----------



## Wolfmoon

More like "A path to taking over the country!"

If current trends continue, the population of the United States will rise to 438 million in 2050, from 296 million in 2005, and 82% of the increase will be due to immigrants. The non-Hispanic white population will increase more slowly than other racial and ethnic groups; whites will become a minority (47%) by 2050. 
http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/85.pdf


----------



## Angelhair

_That is what happens when the educated stop having children and the poor,  uneducated continue to have them and when there are not enough births in the industralized nations to meet their future needs and they import poverty and the uneducated from improvished third world nations ._


----------



## ABikerSailor

Just a bunch of racists reinforcing their bullshit.

Nice thread you got here Big Old Bitch. (not).


----------



## California Girl

LilOlLady said:


> Are these the kind of children we want in our military and as American citizens?



So all the children of illegal immigrants are drug smugglers? 

As a conservative, I am supportive of the concept of offering children of illegal immigrants a pathway to citizenship. I am fundamentally opposed to punishing children for the crimes of their parents. I don't necessarily agree with the Dream Act, but certainly I approve of the principle of finding some way to provide legality to these kids. As far as I am concerned, part of that pathway should include the parents returning to their country of origin.


----------



## Wolfmoon

The legal and illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the United States.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html


----------



## LilOlLady

*MO BETTER LIFE IN AMERICA.*
A woman in Honduras has a lucrative bakery business and was approached one day by a businessman that promised her she could may $150 a day working in factories. She ended up in the slave sex trade.

Another women who worked in the pineapple fields owned by an American company for $5 a day and for a mo better life she fell in to the sex trade businesses. 

A dentist who had a lucrative business brought her family here on a visa and overstayed. She has an office cleaning business, kids getting a free education, one in the special school, Academy of Science, for the gifted paid for by the state, father has a auto repair business out of his drive way and garage, illegal pass cars that do not pass smog, just bought a house and paid cash. Possible doing other illegal business. 

Illegal have quit jobs in Mexico that provide a good life to come here for a mo better life at the expense of the federal and state government. You and I. And many return to Mexico, like many American, to retire with a cheaper good life.

Illegals are buying up property financed by RHA through Well Fargo.

A woman from Guatemala brought her family into this country legally and sneaked in a severely handicap child and after many years has petitioned the court for legal status for her and now she is receiving all the medical care of a legal child at the expense of the federal and state government. You and I.

Businesses go over seas for supply of cheap labor and illegals come here providing businesses with a supply of cheap labor.

Every illegal aliens in this county is not a law abiding hard working immigrant.


----------



## LilOlLady

*The good life in Xalisco can mean death in the United States*The poorest of Mexico's poor can step up to the middle class when they go north to sell black tar.
THE HEROIN ROAD
February 16, 2010|
By Sam Quinones | Last Of Three Parts 

Reporting from Xalisco, Mexico  As a boy, Esteban Avila had only a skinny old horse and two pairs of pants, and he lived in a swampy neighborhood called The Toad. He felt stranded across a river from the rest of the world and wondered about life on the other side.
As black-tar heroin ruined lives in the United States, it pulled the poorest out of poverty in Xalisco. Drug earnings paid for decent houses and sometimes businesses, and it made dealers' families the social equals of landowners. By addicting the children of others, they could support their own.

"I'd be lying if I said I was sorry," Avila said. "I did it out of necessity. I was tired of birthdays without gifts, of my mother wondering where the food was going to come from.
Xalisco - The good life in Xalisco can mean death in the United States - Los Angeles Times


----------



## LilOlLady

*ALL ROADS LEAD TO AMNESTY.*

No matter what road the Democrats take, the Dream Act, or Comprehensive Immigration Reform (path to citizenship), they all lead to amnesty. They all allow illegal aliens to stay here ahead of those who are waiting to enter legally. 
They will pay a penalty?   They will only pay a fine if you want citizenship? Many will never pay the fine because they do not care about citizenship. Many of those given amnesty in 1986 have not learned English or applied for citizenship. Paying back taxes, learning English is not a penalty.
With the Dream Act there is no penalty.

Bring them in compliance with US law?  Deem them all legal. Takes away the stigma illegal alien.


*What Is Amnesty for Illegal Immigrants?*By Mike Broemmel, eHow Contributor 

*History
What Is Amnesty for Illegal Immigrants?* 
The legal definition of amnesty for illegal immigrants has been highly politicized in recent times. Shedding aside the rhetoric, amnesty for illegal immigrants refers to allowing illegal immigrants to remain in the United States. However, many argue that this is not a proper application of the term "amnesty." Most of the proposals in this regard include penalties for being in the country illegally as part of gaining so-called amnesty. There are no penalties associated with true amnesty.

*Function*The primary functions of granting amnesty (or partial or qualified amnesty) to foreign nationals who illegally are in the United States are to bring them into compliance with the laws of the U.S.A. and to begin the process of allowing them to become U.S. citizens. Other functions are attributed to the concept of granting amnesty to illegal immigrants, including enhancing homeland security and engaging in a compassionate objective. 

Read more:  
What Is Amnesty for Illegal Immigrants? | eHow.com


----------



## Truthmatters

Now maybe you will face the reality that Bush determined the same thing.

There is no way to deport every person here who is illegal.

It is cost prohibitive.

You can face facts or keep being an idiot about it like 90% of the right.


----------



## ABikerSailor

California Girl said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are these the kind of children we want in our military and as American citizens?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So all the children of illegal immigrants are drug smugglers?
> 
> As a conservative, I am supportive of the concept of offering children of illegal immigrants a pathway to citizenship. I am fundamentally opposed to punishing children for the crimes of their parents. I don't necessarily agree with the Dream Act, but certainly I approve of the principle of finding some way to provide legality to these kids. As far as I am concerned, part of that pathway should include the parents returning to their country of origin.
Click to expand...


You know, I've seen examples of a similar program at work in the Navy.  Non US citizens can come here legally, and, if they so choose, can enlist in the military provided they can pass the screenings.

After 3-4 years of service to the military, they are put on a quick path to citizenship.  I've seen Mexican, Philippino, and Asian servicemembers do this.

A good place for the Dream Act here would be an illegal who came over as a child and has assimilated into this country and wants to enlist in the military.  After a full 4 year enlistment that has been served honorably, then yeah........why not?

I mean.........someone doing that proves their citizenship much better than some racist redneck idiot who refuses to enlist. 

In this case, the illegals would actually prove their love of this country, unlike many who choose not to enlist.

And, if they get a useful 4 year college degree?  Shit man, this country can always use more doctors and engineers.


----------



## editec

asterism said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are these the kind of children we want in our military and as American citizens?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leftists? No, that's why most of them stay out of the military and spend their time trying to turn America into Western Europe.
Click to expand...

 
Are you serving in the military?

Have you served in the military?


----------



## Terral

Hi LilOLady:



LilOlLady said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, Big Old Bitch, what's with the "path to citizenship" title?
> 
> Oh.........forgot.........you're a racist twat lipped **** who likes to stir up shit because you're scared of the brown and black people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ignorant Little Bitch*, my family is *white, brown and black*.
> What part of illegal do you not want to understand and acknowledge.?
Click to expand...


Biker is an Open Border Lobby idiot without a case for his 20-Million-Man Illegal Alien Invasion of these United States. When they have 'no case,' then they attack you; because they have no argument to support their nonsense ...

Keep up the good work,

GL,

Terral


----------



## Terral

Hi LilOlLady:



LilOlLady said:


> *ONLY ONE SOLUTION TO ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION*
> (ENFORCEMENT AT THE WORK PLACE)
> 
> Comprehensive Immigration Reform is only a temporary fix and does nothing to address the next influx of illegal aliens.



We disagree. There is nothing in any Comprehensive Amnesty Reform that is not already included in the *Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986* (link) that *nobody is willing to enforce*. Congress would hand out Illegal Amnesty to 20 Million Illegal Aliens and continue to look the other way, when another 20 Million cross the border illegally to steal their jobs. Enforcement at the Workplace is already the Law of the Land that nobody is willing to enforce ...

At some point you must face that fact that Washington D.C is broken and everyone in office is allowing the USA to go down the drain and nothing we say or do will change that fact. Period. The Illegal Alien Invasion will continue, until the USA becomes the Fascist State of CanAmeriMexico and you are a mere subject with no rights at all. Watch and see ...

GL,

Terral


----------



## The Infidel

Mad Scientist said:


> Illegals are here because:
> 
> They get social benefits. They should get NOTHING
> 
> Employers hire them.  These employers need to be put put of business
> 
> There are Sanctuary Cities.  The mayors out to be prosecuted for harboring fugitives
> 
> There's no Southern Border fence. We were promised this and the funds are there
> 
> There's no enforcement of current immigration laws. This needs to be changed NOW i.e. Arizona
> 
> How would this bill fix any of that? Oh yeah, it won't.




You are so correct.... these things need to be done ASAP!


----------



## Terral

Hi Truth:



Truthmatters said:


> Now maybe you will face the reality that Bush determined the same thing.
> 
> There is no way to deport every person here who is illegal.



You are wrong. The illegal aliens are not subject to the laws of these United States, but American 'Employers' hiring them are subject to Federal USA jurisdiction and the employment laws that are already on the books. We go after the 'employers' hiring the Illegal Aliens by taking away their licenses to do business FOR LIFE, then the members of their Illegal Alien Labor Pool will find their own way back home. 



Truthmatters said:


> It is cost prohibitive.
> 
> You can face facts or keep being an idiot about it like 90% of the right.



Nor sir. Getting tough on American Employers 'hiring' the Illegal Aliens is very easy, when you realize that many Illegal Aliens are using the same Social Security Numbers. Illegal Aliens are very quick to move elsewhere, when 'law enforcement' begins doing their job; until they are forced to GO HOME when nobody in American will hire them. According to your idiotic claims, we should stop enforcing laws against robbing banks; because "It is cost prohibitive." You Open Border Lobby idiots should have thought about that when you wanted to hand out Illegal Amnesty to 3 Million Illegal Aliens back in *1986* (Wiki). You cannot give away Illegal Amnesty to this current 20 Million Illegal Aliens, because enforcing the new laws will be 'cost prohibitive' ... Right? 

Giving away Illegal Amnesty will only kick the back door open to another 100 Million Illegal Aliens, which seems to be your intention in the first place. Now it is your turn to stop playing the Open Border Lobby moron cuckoo around here ...

GL,

Terral


----------



## asterism

ABikerSailor said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are these the kind of children we want in our military and as American citizens?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So all the children of illegal immigrants are drug smugglers?
> 
> As a conservative, I am supportive of the concept of offering children of illegal immigrants a pathway to citizenship. I am fundamentally opposed to punishing children for the crimes of their parents. I don't necessarily agree with the Dream Act, but certainly I approve of the principle of finding some way to provide legality to these kids. As far as I am concerned, part of that pathway should include the parents returning to their country of origin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know, I've seen examples of a similar program at work in the Navy.  Non US citizens can come here legally, and, if they so choose, can enlist in the military provided they can pass the screenings.
> 
> After 3-4 years of service to the military, they are put on a quick path to citizenship.  I've seen Mexican, Philippino, and Asian servicemembers do this.
> 
> A good place for the Dream Act here would be an illegal who came over as a child and has assimilated into this country and wants to enlist in the military.  After a full 4 year enlistment that has been served honorably, then yeah........why not?
> 
> I mean.........someone doing that proves their citizenship much better than some racist redneck idiot who refuses to enlist.
> 
> In this case, the illegals would actually prove their love of this country, unlike many who choose not to enlist.
> 
> And, if they get a useful 4 year college degree?  Shit man, this country can always use more doctors and engineers.
Click to expand...


I think that would work.


----------



## asterism

editec said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are these the kind of children we want in our military and as American citizens?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leftists? No, that's why most of them stay out of the military and spend their time trying to turn America into Western Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you serving in the military?
> 
> Have you served in the military?
Click to expand...


No and yes.


----------



## LilOlLady

*I FEEL AMERICAN*

Worse excuse for the Dream Act is; *Some of them have been here for years and this is the only country they know. *Some of them *left countries they had known all their lives, families and friends *when they were brought here illegally by their parents. Not knowing the *language and the culture *and* never fully assimilating* because their parents *still speak Spanish *and *celebrate the Mexican culture *and they have to be translators for their parents. This is the real world of anchor babies and for children that were brought here illegally live in. Anchor Baby Act and the Dream Act is a dis-service to the illegal family. Do you know how *humiliating it is for a 10 year old to have to translate for his parents*? At school and at the doctors office?

Anchor babies and their siblings start school and have to be taught English, taking teaching time away from the American student and at the expense of their education. It is no wonder our schools are failing when teaching time is taking away to teach children of illegal aliens English. They *have not fully assimilated because they parents still speak Spanish, still celebrate the Mexican culture and hate Americans*. To hold on to their culture, some of those anchor babies and siblings *join Hispanic gangs.*

Children of illegal aliens do not have a right to citizenship just because they were brought here by their parents and have* been here a long time and they feel American*. Being an American is more than a feeling. Enjoying all the benefits of America do not make you an American.

It is insulting to me and my country for some one to cross the border illegally, been here only for years to say they are Americans because they *feel American *and at the same time *celebrating Mexicos independence *and *flying the Mexican flag *in my face. Same goes for the Anchor Baby Act. They flaunt their culture in the face of Americans.

The *Anchor Baby Act and the Dream Act *is all wrong for America and for illegals. It separate families. Some of legal, some on a path to citizenship and some are illegal. *All in the same family unit.*


----------



## LilOlLady

*ENGLISH REQUIREMENT*

On of the requirement for* entering school *here should be *able to speak English*. It will *save the education system millions *because they would not have to *hire teachers to teach them English before they can be taught their ABCs*. Schools like the *Mariposa Academy of Learning *would not be necessary and would save states millions. The *cost of education children of illegal aliens *are astronomically and the Dream Act would add to that cost.


http://www.mariposaacademy.com/

http://www.mariposaacademy.net/


Mariposa Academy is a Spanish language school in the Oakland / Berkeley / Piedmont / Montclair area.  We offer both small group Spanish classes and individual Spanish tutoring for children, teenagers, home-schoolers, professionals, and other adults.

Bienvenidos - Welcome!


----------



## LilOlLady

*Hispanics: A Statistical Portrait*
September 2006 
New Century Foundation 
Oakton, Virginia 22124 
703-716-0900 

*Major Findings* 
Because of their low incomes, Hispanics are the major population group most likely to use welfare: In 2004, 50 percent of Hispanic households used at least one form of welfare, compared to 47 percent of blacks and 18 percent of whites (see Figure 6).(20) In 2005, 13 percent of Hispanic households used food stamps, as opposed to five percent of white households. Puerto Rican households were more than four times more likely than whites to use food stamps and Mexicans almost three times more likely.(21) Non-citizens are generally ineligible for many forms of welfare; if many Hispanics were to gain citizenship, Hispanic *welfare use would rise*.
Hispanics: A Statistical Portrait


----------



## LilOlLady

*PATH TO DISASTER
Comprehensive Immigration Refrom and Dream Act.*



We need illegals to pay of social security and help grow our economy. A BOHS by the Reids, Dorgins and the Boxers. Who is going to pay their social security, etc for those who were given amnesty in 1986? Those who would benefit from the Dream Act? The 500,000 anchor babies. Million would be part of Chain Migration? Those elderly, handicap and mentally disabled? Those who never paid into the system but would benefit.



When we make contributions to the system, *we always expect something in return and sometimes it is more than we contributed*. Low income worker always get more out of the system they pay into the system.



20 million given legal status and put on a path to citizenship will be able to bring the families here, elderly parents, disabled family members and they will have to be taken care of with SSI, full Medicaid, food stamps, unemployment and public housing. 



20 million plus illegal aliens are already paying taxes and still costing the system million more than they contribute.

Comprehensive Immigration Reform and the Dream Act, like the 1986 amnesty, is a plan for disaster for this country and for Mexico.



We had better keep the borders open because *"When the going gets tough, the tough get going*." All the *freebies will dry up *and  there will be a *mass exodus* back across the border


----------



## LilOlLady

* WHEN IS ENOUGH, ENOUGH?
*
We had the 1986 amnesty that were supposed to fix illegal immigration and secure the border and 20 plus illegal aliens later it is still not fixed. 



Why do our representatives think Comprehensive Immigration Reform will be any different? That 20 years from now the borders will still not be secured and there will be another 20 million illegal aliens? 



What guarantee is there that the Dream Act will produce results? Will there be jobs for them? 



*We are in a hole and we need to stop digging.* 

Republicans you don't have to pander to Hispanics for votes. *Do the right thing for America and Americans will have your backs at the polling stations.*


----------



## hortysir

> *When is enough, enough?* * WHEN IS ENOUGH, ENOUGH?*


I ask that question every single time I see your posts


----------



## Truthmatters

Enough will be enough when we allow a legal temporary way for the people we need from other countries for work is set in place.

The immigration policy we have retained for decades has NO provision to solve this problem and is designed so the employer can employ these people without paying any real price.

They get cheap labor they can abuse and payno price.


----------



## José

hortysir said:


> *When is enough, enough?* * WHEN IS ENOUGH, ENOUGH?*
> 
> 
> 
> I ask that question every single time I see your posts
Click to expand...


hortysir... you SOB... you just stole my post


----------



## hortysir

Early bird, Senior


----------



## AmericanFirst

No, we need to close the borders and round up the illegals already here and send them crying back to mexico!!!


----------



## Oddball

> *When is enough, enough? *


I keep asking that, with every petty illegal immigration thread started by LilOlMoonbat.

When is enough enough?


----------



## LilOlLady

*DREAM Act students vow revolution after act fails in the Senate "White People, Watch Out!"*
by safari 
*
&#8220;This is war!&#8221;* claims Phoenix student Aldemar Cruz. &#8220;Republicans may 
have stopped the DREAM Act, but they won&#8217;t prevent* La Reconquista *from 
happening. &#8220;White people, watch out!&#8221;

Olivia Perez, an undocumented student who claims she was forced to 
fill out false paperwork in order to stay in the United States, says, 
&#8220;Latinos need to fight back. We need to march. We need to scream. If 
necessary, *we need to riot.* We need to do *everything Blacks did *to get their civil rights!&#8221;

http://www.sodahead.com/united-stat...-watch-out/question-1396019/?page=12#comments



*IF it's war you want, it's war you will get*. Bring it on you liitle *#%$@ #@$% $$#% #q$#S*. 

*"Give them and inch and they want a mile."*


----------



## LilOlLady

hortysir said:


> *When is enough, enough?* * WHEN IS ENOUGH, ENOUGH?*
> 
> 
> 
> I ask that question every single time I see your posts
Click to expand...



Bitch, this is my job and I do it well. Case in point.


----------



## hortysir

LilOlLady said:


> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *When is enough, enough?* * WHEN IS ENOUGH, ENOUGH?*
> 
> 
> 
> I ask that question every single time I see your posts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Bitch, this is my job and I do it well. Case in point.
Click to expand...

Which is evidenced by the pages of discussion on your riveting topic


----------



## LilOlLady

Truthmatters said:


> Enough will be enough when *we allow a legal temporary way for the people we need from other countries for work is set in place*.
> 
> The immigration policy we have retained for decades has NO provision to solve this problem and is designed so the employer can employ these people without paying any real price.
> 
> They get cheap labor they can abuse and payno price.



Illegal aliens do not want *TEMPORARY*. We tried* TEMPORARY *and it become *PERMANENT.*How about going to your *nearest unemployment office*.


----------



## saltshaker

LilOlLady said:


> Illegal aliens do not want *TEMPORARY*. We tried* TEMPORARY *and it become *PERMANENT.*How about going to your *nearest unemployment office*.




Go to the unemployment office*?*
We don't have one anymore. The workers were layed off until further notice.


*CORRECTION:* The above statement was checked on SNOPES and found  to be false.
ORIGIN: Posted by one refered to as Saltshaker on "USMESSAGEBOARD" on 12/20/2010 at 12:45 PM EST. HOAX!


----------



## WillowTree

Come on. Prove what good little American citizens your are not! We knew it all along. You just want something for nothing.


----------



## Bullfighter

LilOlLady said:


> *DREAM Act students vow revolution after act fails in the Senate "White People, Watch Out!"*
> by safari
> 
> *This is war!* claims Phoenix student Aldemar Cruz. Republicans may
> have stopped the DREAM Act, but they wont prevent* La Reconquista *from
> happening. White people, watch out!
> 
> Olivia Perez, an undocumented student who claims she was forced to
> fill out false paperwork in order to stay in the United States, says,
> Latinos need to fight back. We need to march. We need to scream. If
> necessary, *we need to riot.* We need to do *everything Blacks did *to get their civil rights!
> 
> DREAM Act students vow revolution after act fails in the Senate "White People, Watch Out!" - Page 12
> 
> 
> 
> *IF it's war you want, it's war you will get*. Bring it on you liitle *#%$@ #@$% $$#% #q$#S*.
> 
> *"Give them and inch and they want a mile."*


 

Washington:

Either "The US-Mexican War" (The Sequel) 

or

 "The American Civil War" (The Sequel). 

Pick your war.

Since every race except Latino will be the sworn enemy of Mexico if the US retaliates against the Mexican Invasion of the US 

AND 

the world will side with the US against Mexico as Mexicans are the aggressors it really a no-brainer.............

..........so we are all in a lot of trouble with Washington in charge of things!


----------



## ABikerSailor

LilOlLady said:


> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *When is enough, enough?* * WHEN IS ENOUGH, ENOUGH?*
> 
> 
> 
> I ask that question every single time I see your posts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Bitch, this is my job and I do it well. Case in point.
Click to expand...


Big Fat Racist Bitch........you don't do ANYTHING well.

Your racist blinders see to that.


----------



## DiveCon

LilOlLady said:


> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *When is enough, enough?* * WHEN IS ENOUGH, ENOUGH?*
> 
> 
> 
> I ask that question every single time I see your posts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Bitch, this is my job and I do it well. Case in point.
Click to expand...

REALLY?!?!?

someone is PAYING you to post here?


----------



## ABikerSailor

DiveCon said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> 
> I ask that question every single time I see your posts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bitch, this is my job and I do it well. Case in point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> REALLY?!?!?
> 
> someone is PAYING you to post here?
Click to expand...


Yeah....they're paying her in Trident Layers Gum (or is that Willy Wonka gobstoppers)?


----------



## GHook93

You racist!!! 



LilOlLady said:


> . They did not ask for free education, healthcare, welfare and housing.  We are no longer into nation building but into nation survival. We do not have the natural resources or food to sustain the population growth of 30 million immigrants into this country every 20 years. We already have a water shortage and import much of our food. And where are the jobs for the growth going to come from? Not to mention 30 million low wage earners into our healthcare system.  And their elderly parents will come over and go into our social security system without ever paying into it. SSI with full Medicaid. It will turn us into a third world country. We need limited and controlled immigration in order to survive.
> 
> The will pay taxes? They already pay taxes in spite of the rhetoric that they dont.  Very little if any and that will not change with amnesty. And dont forget the crime that has come with immigrants and population growth. Gangs and drugs. It is not true that most illegal aliens are good hard working people who only want to take care of their families.
> 
> We will cease to be a democracy and become socialist or communist country because we will have no choice and the end of America as we know it.
> 
> Pro-amnesty advocates should think long and hard before they do amnesty for 30 million illegal aliens. Because once it begin, there will be no turning back.


----------



## Angelhair

_Their biggest gripe I'm sure is that they wanted legalization aka amnesty so that they could bring their relatives from their country of birth.  All these millions of illegals are NOT students by any stretch of the imagination.  You can fool me some of the time; but you can't fool me all of the time._


----------



## Lonestar_logic

LilOlLady said:


> *DREAM Act students vow revolution after act fails in the Senate "White People, Watch Out!"*
> by safari
> *
> This is war!* claims Phoenix student Aldemar Cruz. Republicans may
> have stopped the DREAM Act, but they wont prevent* La Reconquista *from
> happening. White people, watch out!
> 
> Olivia Perez, an undocumented student who claims she was forced to
> fill out false paperwork in order to stay in the United States, says,
> Latinos need to fight back. We need to march. We need to scream. If
> necessary, *we need to riot.* We need to do *everything Blacks did *to get their civil rights!
> 
> DREAM Act students vow revolution after act fails in the Senate "White People, Watch Out!" - Page 12
> 
> 
> 
> *IF it's war you want, it's war you will get*. Bring it on you liitle *#%$@ #@$% $$#% #q$#S*.
> 
> *"Give them and inch and they want a mile."*



The mexicans already got their asses kicked once. I reckon they're ready for round two.  Bring it on!


----------



## B. Kidd

They're just pissed off. They'll get over it.
They're not very astute political observers to think it would pass to begin with. They had hope-ey, but sorry, no change-ee.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Immigration Jokes
Late-Night Jokes About Immigration and Immigration Reform
By Daniel Kurtzman,*

Immigration Jokes - Late-Night Jokes About Immigration

Mexican Jokes


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Here's one for ya.
 Did you hear about the Mexican who was so stupid he thought Roe vs. Wade was the two ways to cross the Rio Grande?

The funny thing about this one is that I told it to a Mex guy and all I got was a blank look.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

And another.
Why do Mexican women wear long skirts?..........to hide the no pest strip.


----------



## Big Black Dog

What do you call it when you see a Mexican driving a Escalade?  Grand Theft Auto.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Why do Mexicans drive low riders?......So they can pick lettuce and drive.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Why do Mexicans have those small chain steering wheels on there cars?........so they can drive in handcuffs.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

B. Kidd said:


> They're just pissed off. They'll get over it.
> They're not very astute political observers to think it would pass to begin with. They had hope-ey, but sorry, no change-ee.



They're not very astute period!!


----------



## Mini 14

As a native American (Cherokee), I say fuck all of you.


----------



## Mini 14

The only way Mexico will ever win another war is if France invades Acapulco.


----------



## Big Black Dog

Mini 14 said:


> As a native American (Cherokee), I say fuck all of you.



Sorry.  I don't know any Cherokee jokes.  You should lighten up and take a deep breath.  We're just having some fun.  You going to tell me that Mexican don't make jokes about us white guys here in America?


----------



## Mini 14

Big Black Dog said:


> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a native American (Cherokee), I say fuck all of you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry.  I don't know any Cherokee jokes.  You should lighten up and take a deep breath.  We're just having some fun.  You going to tell me that Mexican don't make jokes about us white guys here in America?
Click to expand...


Not much for sense of humor today, huh?

Free my people.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Mini 14 said:


> As a native American (Cherokee), I say fuck all of you.



Wait what???? Please dont tell me there here illegally to.


----------



## Mini 14

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a native American (Cherokee), I say fuck all of you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait what???? Please dont tell me there here illegally to.
Click to expand...


Yes, we are. My family refused to leave the South on the Trail of Tears, so in a sense, I am here illegally.

We "hid out" in the mountains of North Georgia, and the white folk were dumb enough to believe our German last name was real, and our red skin was from lounging on the Mediterranean


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Mini 14 said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a native American (Cherokee), I say fuck all of you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait what???? Please dont tell me there here illegally to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, we are. My family refused to leave the South on the Trail of Tears, so in a sense, I am here illegally.
> 
> We "hid out" in the mountains of North Georgia, and the white folk were dumb enough to believe our German last name was real, and our red skin was from lounging on the Mediterranean
Click to expand...


Now thats Fucken funny !!!!!!


----------



## LilOlLady

Mini 14 said:


> As a native American (Cherokee), I say fuck all of you.



As a Native American (Chickasaw) I say fuck you and chill.


----------



## Mini 14

LilOlLady said:


> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a native American (Cherokee), I say fuck all of you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a Native American (Chickasaw) I say fuck you and chill.
Click to expand...


Cherokee kicks Chickasaw ass, every day of the week!

Damn, you people need to find a sense of humor!

Cherokee Nation is OUT!


----------



## LilOlLady

Big Black Dog said:


> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a native American (Cherokee), I say fuck all of you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry.  I don't know any Cherokee jokes.  You should lighten up and take a deep breath.  We're just having some fun.  You going to tell me that Mexican don't make jokes about us white guys here in America?
Click to expand...


 Carlos Mancia, Gabriel Iglesias, George Lopez all make fun of white people.

*Native American jokes.*
what is the most humorous native joke you heard? - PowWows.com - Your portal to Native American Tribal Culture


----------



## LilOlLady

Mini 14 said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a native American (Cherokee), I say fuck all of you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a Native American (Chickasaw) I say fuck you and chill.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cherokee kicks Chickasaw ass, every day of the week!
> 
> Damn, you people need to find a sense of humor!
> 
> Cherokee Nation is OUT!
Click to expand...



Only thing Cherokees do is get drunk beat old ladies and children.


----------



## LilOlLady

ANTI-ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION NOT ANTI-IMMIGRANT.
Arizonians are not anti-immigrant.

Chris Matthew has a woman on his show today that said the people of Arizona who supported SB1070 were anti-immigrant.  People of Arizona like most Americans are anti-illegal immigration.

How can any intelligent person even form their lips to voice that those who want our immigration laws enforced, our border secured, against illegal immigration, against revolving amnesty to be anti-immigrant or racist against Mexicans.?


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Man !!!!  So much hatred amongst you native Americans !!  Y'all aint gonna go on the war path are ya?  Do I hear war drums?


----------



## JamesInFlorida

Having any American prove their citizenship based on the color of their skin is ridiculous. Minorities who're citizens and just as American as anybody else should not be subjected to unreasonable search and seizure, and are protected under the constitution from such. I don't know any reasonable person who would dispute that. 

Does this mean every American who's mexian/latino in Arizona has to carry their passport and/or birth certificate on them now? I hope the minority cops start asking white people for their proof of citizenship, and when they can't prove it right away-take their asses to jail.

I'm not for illegal immigration obviously-BUT I'm much much much much more against violating an American's constitutional rights.


----------



## hortysir

Blew my mind when I saw I was on page 24

Loving the super-merge whoever did it


----------



## Meister

JamesInFlorida said:


> Having any American prove their citizenship based on the color of their skin is ridiculous. Minorities who're citizens and just as American as anybody else should not be subjected to unreasonable search and seizure, and are protected under the constitution from such. I don't know any reasonable person who would dispute that.
> 
> Does this mean every American who's mexian/latino in Arizona has to carry their passport and/or birth certificate on them now? I hope the minority cops start asking white people for their proof of citizenship, and when they can't prove it right away-take their asses to jail.
> 
> I'm not for illegal immigration obviously-BUT I'm much much much much more against violating an American's constitutional rights.



No you are for legalization because you don't want to do jack shit about it....your not fooling anyone


----------



## JamesInFlorida

Meister said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having any American prove their citizenship based on the color of their skin is ridiculous. Minorities who're citizens and just as American as anybody else should not be subjected to unreasonable search and seizure, and are protected under the constitution from such. I don't know any reasonable person who would dispute that.
> 
> Does this mean every American who's mexian/latino in Arizona has to carry their passport and/or birth certificate on them now? I hope the minority cops start asking white people for their proof of citizenship, and when they can't prove it right away-take their asses to jail.
> 
> I'm not for illegal immigration obviously-BUT I'm much much much much more against violating an American's constitutional rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No you are for legalization because you don't want to do jack shit about it....your not fooling anyone
Click to expand...


So you think the government has the right to violate a citizen's constitutional rights, due to the color of their skin?
    *
*
The right of the people to be secure in their persons,* houses, papers, and effects, *against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,* and no Warrants shall issue,* but upon probable cause, *supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. 

Under what situations would you judge someone having probable cause to ask an American Citizen for documentation to prove their citizenship? It's clearly in the constitution they need it. Answer that for me.


----------



## WillowTree

Mini 14 said:


> The only way Mexico will ever win another war is if France invades Acapulco.


----------



## Meister

JamesInFlorida said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having any American prove their citizenship based on the color of their skin is ridiculous. Minorities who're citizens and just as American as anybody else should not be subjected to unreasonable search and seizure, and are protected under the constitution from such. I don't know any reasonable person who would dispute that.
> 
> Does this mean every American who's mexian/latino in Arizona has to carry their passport and/or birth certificate on them now? I hope the minority cops start asking white people for their proof of citizenship, and when they can't prove it right away-take their asses to jail.
> 
> I'm not for illegal immigration obviously-BUT I'm much much much much more against violating an American's constitutional rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No you are for legalization because you don't want to do jack shit about it....your not fooling anyone
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you think the government has the right to violate a citizen's constitutional rights, due to the color of their skin?
> *
> *
> The right of the people to be secure in their persons,* houses, papers, and effects, *against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,* and no Warrants shall issue,* but upon probable cause, *supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
> 
> Under what situations would you judge someone having probable cause to ask an American Citizen for documentation to prove their citizenship? It's clearly in the constitution they need it. Answer that for me.
Click to expand...


If a person gets pulled over for a traffic violation....do they have to show identification?
The same goes for the illegals.....they need to show identification....nothing unconstitutional about it.  You want to make up lies go ahead thats what you do.


----------



## Lonestar_logic

JamesInFlorida said:


> Having any American prove their citizenship based on the color of their skin is ridiculous. Minorities who're citizens and just as American as anybody else should not be subjected to unreasonable search and seizure, and are protected under the constitution from such. I don't know any reasonable person who would dispute that.
> 
> Does this mean every American who's mexian/latino in Arizona has to carry their passport and/or birth certificate on them now? I hope the minority cops start asking white people for their proof of citizenship, and when they can't prove it right away-take their asses to jail.
> 
> I'm not for illegal immigration obviously-BUT I'm much much much much more against violating an American's constitutional rights.



Hey stupid, if you are a legal immigrant in this country then you have a green card, a green card that must be on your person at all times. That's the law. If you are a citizen and you are asked for an ID by LEO then you must present an ID in the form of a DL or state issued ID, again that's the the law. You don't like the law? Then seek to change it or move your ass to another country, where the laws will probably be much more strict.


----------



## chilliowens

Gadawg73 said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> 
> English, Irish, German, Scot, Welsh and Native American by blood here. 100% American at heart.
> 
> Speaking specifically of Hispanic Illegal Immigrants. Why does it seem like so many of them do not actually want to be Americans? They want to work here and send money home, Not learn the language, and not assimilate at all into our society. Not all of them by any means but it sure seems like more than any other group of immigrants. Maybe it is just because there are so many more of them than any other group. It just seems like when our ancestors came here, they came here to be Americans, Not to be Mexicans living in America and supporting Mexico.
> 
> Just saying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After paying rent, feeding yourself, purchasing auto insurance, clothing yourself and the dozens of other expenses you spend $ on, what do you do with your $?
> Burn it?
> Giving your $ to your family is what most responsible adults do. The US government could learn a valuable lesson from the resoursefullness of these Hispanic folks.
> They are more disciplined a people than we are.
Click to expand...


Its not discipline, its the willingness to live conditions that a rat would say fuck this shit Im out of here. There in nothing knobble about illegals and they send money home not for their parents gain but for their retirement nest egg. Americans do help their parents when needed and some dont because their parents have money. You can put lipstick on a pig its still a pig. A real American wouldnt give a shit what pro amnesty asshole think they would support the laws against illegals and support a the idea of better border security.


----------



## JamesInFlorida

Lonestar_logic said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having any American prove their citizenship based on the color of their skin is ridiculous. Minorities who're citizens and just as American as anybody else should not be subjected to unreasonable search and seizure, and are protected under the constitution from such. I don't know any reasonable person who would dispute that.
> 
> Does this mean every American who's mexian/latino in Arizona has to carry their passport and/or birth certificate on them now? I hope the minority cops start asking white people for their proof of citizenship, and when they can't prove it right away-take their asses to jail.
> 
> I'm not for illegal immigration obviously-BUT I'm much much much much more against violating an American's constitutional rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey stupid, if you are a legal immigrant in this country then you have a green card, a green card that must be on your person at all times. That's the law.* If you are a citizen and you are asked for an ID by LEO then you must present an ID in the form of a DL or state issued ID, again that's the the law. *You don't like the law? Then seek to change it or move your ass to another country, where the laws will probably be much more strict.
Click to expand...


Hey stupid, *State issued IDs, and DL's are NOT proof of citizenship.* Americans currently DO NOT have to prove their citizenship-according to your own words (as you agreed they have to show one of a DL or a state issued identification). Therefore the law does NOT state an American has to prove their citizenship. You can't have 1 law saying you only have to issue a DL, or state ID, and another law stating you have to prove citizenship. They contradict each other.

Let's say you or me (I'm assuming you're American), are driving and are pulled over. We're asked to PROVE CITIZENSHIP. We only have a DL on us. We're going to jail.

Maybe you should think about the law-because in your post you prove that very point.


----------



## Meister

JamesInFlorida said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having any American prove their citizenship based on the color of their skin is ridiculous. Minorities who're citizens and just as American as anybody else should not be subjected to unreasonable search and seizure, and are protected under the constitution from such. I don't know any reasonable person who would dispute that.
> 
> Does this mean every American who's mexian/latino in Arizona has to carry their passport and/or birth certificate on them now? I hope the minority cops start asking white people for their proof of citizenship, and when they can't prove it right away-take their asses to jail.
> 
> I'm not for illegal immigration obviously-BUT I'm much much much much more against violating an American's constitutional rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey stupid, if you are a legal immigrant in this country then you have a green card, a green card that must be on your person at all times. That's the law.* If you are a citizen and you are asked for an ID by LEO then you must present an ID in the form of a DL or state issued ID, again that's the the law. *You don't like the law? Then seek to change it or move your ass to another country, where the laws will probably be much more strict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey stupid, *State issued IDs, and DL's are NOT proof of citizenship.* American's currently D NOT have to prove their citizenship-according to your own words (as you agreed they have to show one of a DL or a state issued identification). Therefore the law does NOT state an American has to prove their citizenship.
> 
> Maybe you should think about the law-because in your post you prove that very point.
Click to expand...


*Hey stupid*, If they're here legally they have to have a form of ID on them at all times, just like we do.  If they have nothing, then there is a problem isn't there?  Just like if I had nothing there is a problem.
Nobody is going around and stopping the Latino's asking for proof of citizenship.  If it did the courts would hear it for sure....This is where your bullshit ends.


----------



## chilliowens

Mini 14 said:


> With all the politics being played over Arizona, it is only a matter of time before Arizonans take matters into their own hands.
> 
> As they should.



LOCKED, COCKED, AND READY TO ROCK

and none of that 5.56 junk shit 6.8 and 308  when need to reach out and touch someone just waiting for the call.


----------



## JamesInFlorida

Meister said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey stupid, if you are a legal immigrant in this country then you have a green card, a green card that must be on your person at all times. That's the law.* If you are a citizen and you are asked for an ID by LEO then you must present an ID in the form of a DL or state issued ID, again that's the the law. *You don't like the law? Then seek to change it or move your ass to another country, where the laws will probably be much more strict.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey stupid, *State issued IDs, and DL's are NOT proof of citizenship.* American's currently D NOT have to prove their citizenship-according to your own words (as you agreed they have to show one of a DL or a state issued identification). Therefore the law does NOT state an American has to prove their citizenship.
> 
> Maybe you should think about the law-because in your post you prove that very point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Hey stupid, If they're here legally they have to have a form of ID on them at all times, just like we do.*  If they have nothing, then there is a problem isn't there?  Just like if I had nothing there is a problem.
> Nobody is going around and stopping the Latino's asking for proof of citizenship.  If it did the courts would hear it for sure....This is where your bullshit ends.
Click to expand...


Legal immigrants need proof of legal residency-not just any form of identification. That's a fact. American citizens only need a form of ID (DL, or state issued ID minimum). That's a fact. I'm not disputing that. The problem is this: what if an American citizen is asked for proof of CITIZENSHIP. A driver's license and state issued license is NOT proof of citizenship-this part cannot be disputed-as legal immigrants get driver's licenses and state issued IDs if they wish.

So let's say you're an American citizenship, and are pulled over for speeding. You are then asked to prove your citizenship, and you present the officer your driver's license. Have you proved your citizenship? No. You haven't. Now the officer asks if you have any proof of citizenship-and you say no. That officer now has the ability to arrest you-a legal American citizen, while you have committed no crime (aside from speeding).


----------



## Meister

JamesInFlorida said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey stupid, *State issued IDs, and DL's are NOT proof of citizenship.* American's currently D NOT have to prove their citizenship-according to your own words (as you agreed they have to show one of a DL or a state issued identification). Therefore the law does NOT state an American has to prove their citizenship.
> 
> Maybe you should think about the law-because in your post you prove that very point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hey stupid, If they're here legally they have to have a form of ID on them at all times, just like we do.*  If they have nothing, then there is a problem isn't there?  Just like if I had nothing there is a problem.
> Nobody is going around and stopping the Latino's asking for proof of citizenship.  If it did the courts would hear it for sure....This is where your bullshit ends.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Legal immigrants need proof of legal residency-not just any form of identification. That's a fact. American citizens only need a form of ID (DL, or state issued ID minimum). That's a fact. I'm not disputing that. The problem is this: what if an American citizen is asked for proof of CITIZENSHIP. A driver's license and state issued license is NOT proof of citizenship-this part cannot be disputed-as legal immigrants get driver's licenses and state issued IDs if they wish.
> 
> So let's say you're an American citizenship, and are pulled over for speeding. You are then asked to prove your citizenship, and you present the officer your driver's license. Have you proved your citizenship? No. You haven't. Now the officer asks if you have any proof of citizenship-and you say no. That officer now has the ability to arrest you-a legal American citizen, while you have committed no crime (aside from speeding).
Click to expand...


Legal immigrants have green cards and ARE required by LAW to produce Legal Documents upon request.  
How many times has your little cherry picked scenario happened in your lifetime? 
You don't want closed borders and you don't want these law breakers out of our country.  I get it....it doesn't make you right, but I get it.


----------



## JamesInFlorida

Meister said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hey stupid, If they're here legally they have to have a form of ID on them at all times, just like we do.*  If they have nothing, then there is a problem isn't there?  Just like if I had nothing there is a problem.
> Nobody is going around and stopping the Latino's asking for proof of citizenship.  If it did the courts would hear it for sure....This is where your bullshit ends.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Legal immigrants need proof of legal residency-not just any form of identification. That's a fact. American citizens only need a form of ID (DL, or state issued ID minimum). That's a fact. I'm not disputing that. The problem is this: what if an American citizen is asked for proof of CITIZENSHIP. A driver's license and state issued license is NOT proof of citizenship-this part cannot be disputed-as legal immigrants get driver's licenses and state issued IDs if they wish.
> 
> So let's say you're an American citizenship, and are pulled over for speeding. You are then asked to prove your citizenship, and you present the officer your driver's license. Have you proved your citizenship? No. You haven't. Now the officer asks if you have any proof of citizenship-and you say no. That officer now has the ability to arrest you-a legal American citizen, while you have committed no crime (aside from speeding).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Legal immigrants have green cards and ARE required by LAW to produce Legal Documents upon request.
> How many times has your little cherry picked scenario happened in your lifetime?
> You don't want closed borders and you don't want these law breakers out of our country.  I get it....it doesn't make you right, but I get it.
Click to expand...


Read my other posts, where I agree that we should stop all aid towards illegal immigrants, and deport them right when they're found, and we shouldn't allow anchor babies to have citizenship. The only thing I don't think is feasible is securing the border. So don't put words into my mouth.


----------



## DiveCon

JamesInFlorida said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey stupid, *State issued IDs, and DL's are NOT proof of citizenship.* American's currently D NOT have to prove their citizenship-according to your own words (as you agreed they have to show one of a DL or a state issued identification). Therefore the law does NOT state an American has to prove their citizenship.
> 
> Maybe you should think about the law-because in your post you prove that very point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hey stupid, If they're here legally they have to have a form of ID on them at all times, just like we do.*  If they have nothing, then there is a problem isn't there?  Just like if I had nothing there is a problem.
> Nobody is going around and stopping the Latino's asking for proof of citizenship.  If it did the courts would hear it for sure....This is where your bullshit ends.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Legal immigrants need proof of legal residency-not just any form of identification. That's a fact. American citizens only need a form of ID (DL, or state issued ID minimum). That's a fact. I'm not disputing that. The problem is this: what if an American citizen is asked for proof of CITIZENSHIP. A driver's license and state issued license is NOT proof of citizenship-this part cannot be disputed-as legal immigrants get driver's licenses and state issued IDs if they wish.
> 
> So let's say you're an American citizenship, and are pulled over for speeding. You are then asked to prove your citizenship, and you present the officer your driver's license. Have you proved your citizenship? No. You haven't. Now the officer asks if you have any proof of citizenship-and you say no. That officer now has the ability to arrest you-a legal American citizen, while you have committed no crime (aside from speeding).
Click to expand...

when was the last time you got a DL?
last time i got mine i had to provide proof of residence, and when i got my FIRST one i had to provide my birth certificate(as proof of AGE)
so, how hard would it be to have all states do this and put citizenship status on the DL?
that way no need for addition FEDERAL ID's


----------



## Meister

JamesInFlorida said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> 
> Legal immigrants need proof of legal residency-not just any form of identification. That's a fact. American citizens only need a form of ID (DL, or state issued ID minimum). That's a fact. I'm not disputing that. The problem is this: what if an American citizen is asked for proof of CITIZENSHIP. A driver's license and state issued license is NOT proof of citizenship-this part cannot be disputed-as legal immigrants get driver's licenses and state issued IDs if they wish.
> 
> So let's say you're an American citizenship, and are pulled over for speeding. You are then asked to prove your citizenship, and you present the officer your driver's license. Have you proved your citizenship? No. You haven't. Now the officer asks if you have any proof of citizenship-and you say no. That officer now has the ability to arrest you-a legal American citizen, while you have committed no crime (aside from speeding).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Legal immigrants have green cards and ARE required by LAW to produce Legal Documents upon request.
> How many times has your little cherry picked scenario happened in your lifetime?
> You don't want closed borders and you don't want these law breakers out of our country.  I get it....it doesn't make you right, but I get it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read my other posts, where I agree that we should stop all aid towards illegal immigrants, and deport them right when they're found, and we shouldn't allow anchor babies to have citizenship. The only thing I don't think is feasible is securing the border. So don't put words into my mouth.
Click to expand...


Securing the border IS the most feasible project.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Yep.  And the easiest way to do it would be to put Predator drones every 50-100 miles (along with a barracks that would house 15-20 personnel), and every 3rd one, put a Reaper drone as well.

Take about 6 months to secure the border.  I guarantee, the first idiots who are running guns get blown away, the rest will think twice.

After that?  THEN we can talk about immigration reform.


----------



## DiveCon

ABikerSailor said:


> Yep.  And the easiest way to do it would be to put Predator drones every 50-100 miles (along with a barracks that would house 15-20 personnel), and every 3rd one, put a Reaper drone as well.
> 
> Take about 6 months to secure the border.  I guarantee, the first idiots who are running guns get blown away, the rest will think twice.
> 
> After that?  THEN we can talk about immigration reform.


wouldnt a predator cover more area than a 50 mile radius?
i'm, thinking you could do it every 200 miles(maybe more)


----------



## chilliowens

DiveCon said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep.  And the easiest way to do it would be to put Predator drones every 50-100 miles (along with a barracks that would house 15-20 personnel), and every 3rd one, put a Reaper drone as well.
> 
> Take about 6 months to secure the border.  I guarantee, the first idiots who are running guns get blown away, the rest will think twice.
> 
> After that?  THEN we can talk about immigration reform.
> 
> 
> 
> wouldnt a predator cover more area than a 50 mile radius?
> i'm, thinking you could do it every 200 miles(maybe more)
Click to expand...


The millitary has all the assets needed to sucessfully defend our borders, ground support, technological support and air support. And the idea is to narrow the window of opertunity for them to cross the closer the better.


----------



## hortysir

JamesInFlorida said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having any American prove their citizenship based on the color of their skin is ridiculous. Minorities who're citizens and just as American as anybody else should not be subjected to unreasonable search and seizure, and are protected under the constitution from such. I don't know any reasonable person who would dispute that.
> 
> Does this mean every American who's mexian/latino in Arizona has to carry their passport and/or birth certificate on them now? I hope the minority cops start asking white people for their proof of citizenship, and when they can't prove it right away-take their asses to jail.
> 
> I'm not for illegal immigration obviously-BUT I'm much much much much more against violating an American's constitutional rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey stupid, if you are a legal immigrant in this country then you have a green card, a green card that must be on your person at all times. That's the law.* If you are a citizen and you are asked for an ID by LEO then you must present an ID in the form of a DL or state issued ID, again that's the the law. *You don't like the law? Then seek to change it or move your ass to another country, where the laws will probably be much more strict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey stupid, *State issued IDs, and DL's are NOT proof of citizenship.* Americans currently DO NOT have to prove their citizenship-according to your own words (as you agreed they have to show one of a DL or a state issued identification). Therefore the law does NOT state an American has to prove their citizenship. You can't have 1 law saying you only have to issue a DL, or state ID, and another law stating you have to prove citizenship. They contradict each other.
> 
> Let's say you or me (I'm assuming you're American), are driving and are pulled over. We're asked to PROVE CITIZENSHIP. We only have a DL on us. We're going to jail.
> 
> Maybe you should think about the law-because in your post you prove that very point.
Click to expand...

You're not really in Florida are you?
You know? The state where you have to show your birth certificate, social security card, AND 2 pieces of mail with your name on it in order to get a license??


----------



## DiveCon

hortysir said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey stupid, if you are a legal immigrant in this country then you have a green card, a green card that must be on your person at all times. That's the law.* If you are a citizen and you are asked for an ID by LEO then you must present an ID in the form of a DL or state issued ID, again that's the the law. *You don't like the law? Then seek to change it or move your ass to another country, where the laws will probably be much more strict.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey stupid, *State issued IDs, and DL's are NOT proof of citizenship.* Americans currently DO NOT have to prove their citizenship-according to your own words (as you agreed they have to show one of a DL or a state issued identification). Therefore the law does NOT state an American has to prove their citizenship. You can't have 1 law saying you only have to issue a DL, or state ID, and another law stating you have to prove citizenship. They contradict each other.
> 
> Let's say you or me (I'm assuming you're American), are driving and are pulled over. We're asked to PROVE CITIZENSHIP. We only have a DL on us. We're going to jail.
> 
> Maybe you should think about the law-because in your post you prove that very point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're not really in Florida are you?
> You know? The state where you have to show your birth certificate, social security card, AND 2 pieces of mail with your name on it in order to get a license??
Click to expand...

wow, they really made changes since i was last there

Florida Drivers License Identification Requirements


----------



## hortysir

I think all of these items would be primary in proving citizenship:



Certified United States birth certificate, including territories and District of Columbia
Valid United States Passport or Passport Card
Consular Report of Birth Abroad
Certificate of Naturalization, Form N-550 or Form N-570
Certificate of Citizenship, Form N-560 or Form N-561


----------



## Meister

hortysir said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey stupid, if you are a legal immigrant in this country then you have a green card, a green card that must be on your person at all times. That's the law.* If you are a citizen and you are asked for an ID by LEO then you must present an ID in the form of a DL or state issued ID, again that's the the law. *You don't like the law? Then seek to change it or move your ass to another country, where the laws will probably be much more strict.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey stupid, *State issued IDs, and DL's are NOT proof of citizenship.* Americans currently DO NOT have to prove their citizenship-according to your own words (as you agreed they have to show one of a DL or a state issued identification). Therefore the law does NOT state an American has to prove their citizenship. You can't have 1 law saying you only have to issue a DL, or state ID, and another law stating you have to prove citizenship. They contradict each other.
> 
> Let's say you or me (I'm assuming you're American), are driving and are pulled over. We're asked to PROVE CITIZENSHIP. We only have a DL on us. We're going to jail.
> 
> Maybe you should think about the law-because in your post you prove that very point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're not really in Florida are you?
> You know? The state where you have to show your birth certificate, social security card, AND 2 pieces of mail with your name on it in order to get a license??
Click to expand...


No, he's not from Florida, as a matter of fact.  I'm guessing he's from, "across the pond".  This does explain a lot.


----------



## hortysir

My granny used to say, "If you'll lie about one thing, you'll lie about anything"
*discredited*


----------



## ABikerSailor

DiveCon said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep.  And the easiest way to do it would be to put Predator drones every 50-100 miles (along with a barracks that would house 15-20 personnel), and every 3rd one, put a Reaper drone as well.
> 
> Take about 6 months to secure the border.  I guarantee, the first idiots who are running guns get blown away, the rest will think twice.
> 
> After that?  THEN we can talk about immigration reform.
> 
> 
> 
> wouldnt a predator cover more area than a 50 mile radius?
> i'm, thinking you could do it every 200 miles(maybe more)
Click to expand...


Range of a Predator (from what I've read and heard on the news) is roughly a 250 mile radius, but, you've also got to figure in flight time to catch the bastards crossing.

Maybe 2 Predators every 200 miles, with 1 Reaper every 200 miles.

But, you'd need the berthing every 25-50 miles for the people on the ground that are patrolling.  Travel in the desert takes time.


----------



## Bullfighter

ABikerSailor said:


> Yep. And the easiest way to do it would be to put Predator drones every 50-100 miles (along with a barracks that would house 15-20 personnel), and every 3rd one, put a Reaper drone as well.
> 
> Take about 6 months to secure the border. I guarantee, the first idiots who are running guns get blown away, the rest will think twice.
> 
> After that? THEN we can talk about immigration reform.


 
I'm sure those drones work great in tunnels!


----------



## Bullfighter

DiveCon said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hey stupid, If they're here legally they have to have a form of ID on them at all times, just like we do.* If they have nothing, then there is a problem isn't there? Just like if I had nothing there is a problem.
> Nobody is going around and stopping the Latino's asking for proof of citizenship. If it did the courts would hear it for sure....This is where your bullshit ends.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Legal immigrants need proof of legal residency-not just any form of identification. That's a fact. American citizens only need a form of ID (DL, or state issued ID minimum). That's a fact. I'm not disputing that. The problem is this: what if an American citizen is asked for proof of CITIZENSHIP. A driver's license and state issued license is NOT proof of citizenship-this part cannot be disputed-as legal immigrants get driver's licenses and state issued IDs if they wish.
> 
> So let's say you're an American citizenship, and are pulled over for speeding. You are then asked to prove your citizenship, and you present the officer your driver's license. Have you proved your citizenship? No. You haven't. Now the officer asks if you have any proof of citizenship-and you say no. That officer now has the ability to arrest you-a legal American citizen, while you have committed no crime (aside from speeding).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> when was the last time you got a DL?
> last time i got mine i had to provide proof of residence, and when i got my FIRST one i had to provide my birth certificate(as proof of AGE)
> so, how hard would it be to have all states do this and put citizenship status on the DL?
> that way no need for addition FEDERAL ID's
Click to expand...

 
Did you ever see a Mexican at a US post office get a US PASSPORT after having taken an oath read to him IN ENGLISH and not understanding a word that was read to him. Then the postal employee nods to him at the appropriate times so he can say "Si!" ......ahhhhh.......Jess, Jess!

It's pretty funny.......like watching "Family Guy" in SPANISH and waiting for Quagmire to say "Giggity, Giggity, Goo" with a SPANISH accent.


----------



## Bullfighter

chilliowens said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep. And the easiest way to do it would be to put Predator drones every 50-100 miles (along with a barracks that would house 15-20 personnel), and every 3rd one, put a Reaper drone as well.
> 
> Take about 6 months to secure the border. I guarantee, the first idiots who are running guns get blown away, the rest will think twice.
> 
> After that? THEN we can talk about immigration reform.
> 
> 
> 
> wouldnt a predator cover more area than a 50 mile radius?
> i'm, thinking you could do it every 200 miles(maybe more)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The millitary has all the assets needed to sucessfully defend our borders, ground support, technological support and air support. And the idea is to narrow the window of opertunity for them to cross the closer the better.
Click to expand...

 
Why is it that when the Mexican Army helping drug cartels deliver shipments of drugs, sneak into the US and confront the US military, the US military has run away. It has happened several times already. That doesn't make most Americans sleep easy at night.


----------



## Meister

Too bad some on this thread are such haters that they kill any civil conversation.


----------



## ABikerSailor

You know...........the military isn't really for conducting patrols inside the country.  That is the job of the Border Patrol, National Guard and the police.

The military is for handling things OUTCONUS, which means outside the US borders.  It's also the reason that the Coast Guard falls under the Department of Transportation rather than the Department of Defense, because otherwise it would be illegal for them to patrol in coastal waters.

Bullshitter.......you really should do some research rather than being the retarded troll that follows me around.


----------



## Bullfighter

ABikerSailor said:


> You know...........the military isn't really for conducting patrols inside the country. That is the job of the Border Patrol, National Guard and the police.
> 
> The military is for handling things OUTCONUS, which means outside the US borders. It's also the reason that the Coast Guard falls under the Department of Transportation rather than the Department of Defense, because otherwise it would be illegal for them to patrol in coastal waters.
> 
> Bullshitter.......you really should do some research rather than being the retarded troll that follows me around.


 
You mean the spineless US forces in the US suddenly grow a backbone when in foreign countries? Then why don't they advance a few hundred yards into Mexico?

OUTCONUS? I guess the American soldiers of the 19th century didn't know how to spell that and just fought some of the greatest battles in history. All on AMERICAN SOIL!

When will these so called "serve and protect" guys run out of excuses? You joined the military for a buck and run like hell when you see a Mexican coming. 

AND

Read this and see all the times the US military was used inside the US. Your case is very weak.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/army/csi_matthews_posse.pdf


----------



## Meister

meltdown alert.....


----------



## LilOlLady

Can't we all just get along? Have a dialect instead of trying to out-dis each other. We are re-acting like a bunch of @#$!#. Illegal immigration is a very serious problem and need to be discussed seriously and if you are not mentally able to; shut the fuck up and crawl back under your rock.


----------



## LilOlLady

HOW WILL COMP. IMMIG. REFORM STOP ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION AND SECURE THE BORDER?

How will Comprehensive Immigration Reform stop or even control illegal immigration and secure the border? Putting the 20 millions that are here and those entering daily on a path to citizenship will do nothing to control or stop illegal immigration and secure the border and will make border patrol agents jobs even harder than it is now. It is in vain that they are busting their butts 24-7, being shot at and killed chasing illegals who cross the border when our government is enticing them to come illegally with the promise of a path to citizenship.

This is putting the horse before the wagon and beating the dead horse.
The promise of a path to citizenship only encourages more illegal immigration making border patrol agents job harder. Some coming to work and some coming to commit crimes and they who know crime is a more lucrative business here than in Mexico.

Illegal immigration needs to be reversed by workforce enforcement to send the message that if you enter illegally you will not be able to work without legal documentation. Legal documentation is a green card and it must be on your person at all times.

We need to enforce the E-Verify system and put in place a temporary workers program.

When people are not punished for their crimes they tend to commit them over an over.  If illegal immigration is a crime then there should be a punishment. The punishment for illegal immigration is deportation and not amnesty.  Period.


----------



## LilOlLady

_*Read the comment. It is a very good analogy.*_
*Illegal Immigration: Should the Punishment Fit the Crime?*

10 - sal m 
Apr 01, 2006 at 1:33 pm
If paying the fine for sneaking in - and then being allowed to apply for citizenship without further penalty - is all the punishment that will be meted out, the united states will be overrun. 

Sneak in, "get caught," pay your fine and get in line! 

Illegal Immigration: Should the Punishment Fit the Crime? - Page 2 - Blogcritics Politics


----------



## Intense

It won't. It's like a teacher that can't teach erasing the chalk board, and all of the evidence with it. Over, and over, and over. Repeat until the pension kicks in. They need to keep changing the rules to hide the numbers and ineffectiveness. Nothing can fuck up a wet dream faster than a new Government Program.


----------



## LilOlLady

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Man !!!!  So much hatred amongst you native Americans !!  Y'all aint gonna go on the war path are ya?  Do I hear war drums?




I don't have a problem with Cherokees. My mother was Cherokee and Dad Chicksaw. I never knew any other Native Americans until I moved to Nevada 40 years ago. I have familiy members who are Mexican, English, Black, Jewish, French and  I married a Puerto Rican and my son married a Polish girl, My daughter a German and other daughter a Nigerian. and among them I have 5 grand children.
I guess my problem is with MINI's attitude.


----------



## ABikerSailor

By the way Bullshitter.........here ya go.......



> United States of America
> Main article: United States Coast Guard
> 
> The U.S. Coast Guard (USCG) is both a military and a law enforcement service. It is one of the seven components of the uniformed services of the United States and one of the five elements of the United States armed forces. Its role includes enforcement of US law, coastal defense, and search and rescue.[19]
> 
> During peacetime the USCG falls under the administration of the United States Department of Homeland Security. During wartime, the USCG may, at the direction of the President, report to the Secretary of the Navy; its resources, however, are integrated into U.S. military operations (see 14 U.S.C. § 3&#8211;4).
> 
> The USCG maintains an extensive fleet of coastal and ocean-going patrol ships, called cutters by tradition, and small craft, as well as an extensive aviation division consisting of HH-65 Dolphin and HH-60 Jayhawk helicopters and fixed wing aircraft such as the C-130 Hercules, HU-25 Guardian, and HC-144 Ocean Sentry. USCG helicopters are equipped with hoists to rescue survivors and also play a major role in law enforcement. The helicopters are able to land and take off from USCG cutters, making them an indispensable tool in fighting illegal drug traffic and the influx of illegal migrants. The fixed wing aircraft are used for long range search and rescue and law enforcement patrols.



Coast guard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Like I said Bullshitter, you ought to do some research before making yourself look stupider than you already are.


----------



## chilliowens

ABikerSailor said:


> You know...........the military isn't really for conducting patrols inside the country.  That is the job of the Border Patrol, National Guard and the police.
> 
> The military is for handling things OUTCONUS, which means outside the US borders.  It's also the reason that the Coast Guard falls under the Department of Transportation rather than the Department of Defense, because otherwise it would be illegal for them to patrol in coastal waters.
> 
> Bullshitter.......you really should do some research rather than being the retarded troll that follows me around.



AMAZING, The level of ignorance that some people have is beyond belief. The men and women of our armed forces swore an oath to defend the United States Of America foreign and domestic. The growing increase of illegal immigration is not a war time scenario by ant means, but the problem is greatly affecting our economy and our unemployment percentages not to mention gang, criminal and drug activities are steadily on an increase. And to say our military isnt for conducting patrols, turn on a TV, read a new paper or listen to a radio in both Iraq and Afghanistan our troops spent months patrolling the streets and country side gathering intel acting on that intel and using that to capture  the suspects. If they can do it there why not here, what is so hard difficult about that? And using the Coast Guard is beyond stupid, they have neither the manpower nor the assets for a job this big, nor do they have the predisposition or training for such a job. Plus this doesnt have nothing to do with the Dept. of Transportation this is a problem for Homeland Security. Get it together before your next reply.


----------



## chilliowens

JamesInFlorida said:


> Having any American prove their citizenship based on the color of their skin is ridiculous. Minorities who're citizens and just as American as anybody else should not be subjected to unreasonable search and seizure, and are protected under the constitution from such. I don't know any reasonable person who would dispute that.
> 
> Does this mean every American who's mexian/latino in Arizona has to carry their passport and/or birth certificate on them now? I hope the minority cops start asking white people for their proof of citizenship, and when they can't prove it right away-take their asses to jail.
> 
> I'm not for illegal immigration obviously-BUT I'm much much much much more against violating an American's constitutional rights.



James are you a middle school drop out? American citizens prove their citizenship when they apply for a license so once you have a license you have no need to prove it again. That not to say that illegals dont get a license just like they get ssn# (identity theft).  And minority cops know better than to than to ask for proof of citizenship for a white man, that shit dont play. As for asking Latinos well sorry but they fit the description of the suspect brown skin no speake English no papers three strikes your out.


----------



## Bullfighter

ABikerSailor said:


> By the way Bullshitter.........here ya go.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United States of America
> Main article: United States Coast Guard
> 
> The U.S. Coast Guard (USCG) is both a military and a law enforcement service. It is one of the seven components of the uniformed services of the United States and one of the five elements of the United States armed forces. Its role includes enforcement of US law, coastal defense, and search and rescue.[19]
> 
> During peacetime the USCG falls under the administration of the United States Department of Homeland Security. During wartime, the USCG may, at the direction of the President, report to the Secretary of the Navy; its resources, however, are integrated into U.S. military operations (see 14 U.S.C. § 3&#8211;4).
> 
> The USCG maintains an extensive fleet of coastal and ocean-going patrol ships, called cutters by tradition, and small craft, as well as an extensive aviation division consisting of HH-65 Dolphin and HH-60 Jayhawk helicopters and fixed wing aircraft such as the C-130 Hercules, HU-25 Guardian, and HC-144 Ocean Sentry. USCG helicopters are equipped with hoists to rescue survivors and also play a major role in law enforcement. The helicopters are able to land and take off from USCG cutters, making them an indispensable tool in fighting illegal drug traffic and the influx of illegal migrants. The fixed wing aircraft are used for long range search and rescue and law enforcement patrols.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coast guard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Like I said Bullshitter, you ought to do some research before making yourself look stupider than you already are.
Click to expand...

 
And what part of the so-called 2,000 mile US-Mexico border do your CG buddies guard?

OK mister military genius!! What is the plan against a MILITARY ATTACK made by Mexico? This ought to be REALLY GOOD!

I know what you would do................

SURRENDER THE UNITED STATES...

then hop on a Carnival Cruise to parts unknown. 

Try to outrun the Mexican Navy!!


----------



## Bullfighter

chilliowens said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know...........the military isn't really for conducting patrols inside the country. That is the job of the Border Patrol, National Guard and the police.
> 
> The military is for handling things OUTCONUS, which means outside the US borders. It's also the reason that the Coast Guard falls under the Department of Transportation rather than the Department of Defense, because otherwise it would be illegal for them to patrol in coastal waters.
> 
> Bullshitter.......you really should do some research rather than being the retarded troll that follows me around.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMAZING, The level of ignorance that some people have is beyond belief. The men and women of our armed forces swore an oath to defend the United States Of America foreign and domestic. The growing increase of illegal immigration is not a war time scenario by ant means, but the problem is greatly affecting our economy and our unemployment percentages not to mention gang, criminal and drug activities are steadily on an increase. And to say our military isn&#8217;t for conducting patrols, turn on a TV, read a new paper or listen to a radio in both Iraq and Afghanistan our troops spent months patrolling the streets and country side gathering intel acting on that intel and using that to capture the suspects. If they can do it there why not here, what is so hard difficult about that? And using the Coast Guard is beyond stupid, they have neither the manpower nor the assets for a job this big, nor do they have the predisposition or training for such a job. Plus this doesn&#8217;t have nothing to do with the Dept. of Transportation this is a problem for Homeland Security. Get it together before your next reply.
Click to expand...

 
The answer is something all Americans saw earlier this year when the President of Mexico warned the American Congress about making LA RAZA (Mexico's Nazi Party) mad! It made the US Government the enemy of all loyal Arizonians trying to throw out the invader Mexicans.

The US government has the power to FORCE Americans to fight wars that defend foreign countries and people YET doesn't have the BRAINS to DRAFT state and local law enforcement for the purpose of removing illegal invaders that destroy the United States.


----------



## Bullfighter

Mini 14 said:


> As a native American (Cherokee), I say fuck all of you.


 
Calling Indians "native Americans"? Now that is funny. God calls them "The people who can't get along with anybody else in the world"


----------



## Bullfighter

LilOlLady said:


> [
> Carlos Mancia, Gabriel Iglesias, George Lopez all make fun of white people.


 
But only Latin America laughs.


----------



## California Girl

Here's a funny one. What do you call a poster who can't tell the difference between the "Immigration" forum from the "Humor" forum?

Answer: An Idiot.


----------



## chilliowens

Bullfighter said:


> chilliowens said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> wouldnt a predator cover more area than a 50 mile radius?
> i'm, thinking you could do it every 200 miles(maybe more)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The millitary has all the assets needed to sucessfully defend our borders, ground support, technological support and air support. And the idea is to narrow the window of opertunity for them to cross the closer the better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why is it that when the Mexican Army helping drug cartels deliver shipments of drugs, sneak into the US and confront the US military, the US military has run away. It has happened several times already. That doesn't make most Americans sleep easy at night.
Click to expand...


Because our government has their hands tied, our troops are not allowed to stand and fight that would be consider thay an act of war and that would be bad for big American business located in mexico costing some polititions alot of blood money.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Impacts of Illegal Immigration: Crime Summary*
&#12288;

In recent Testimony of *District Attorney John M. Morganelli *before the House Subcommittee on immigration, Border, Security and Claims he stated:

"Unfortunately, the majority of illegal aliens who are here are engaged in criminal activity. Identity theft, use of fraudulent social security numbers and green cards, tax evasion, driving without licenses represent some of the crimes that are engaged in by the majority of illegal aliens on a daily basis merely to maintain and hide their illegal status. 

Ignoring the "minor crime" such as ID theft and property crimes being committed by illegal aliens, here is a summary on some of the collateral damage reaped in crimes as a result of tolerating illegal aliens in the USA:

*Still think illegal immigration is a "victimless crime"* and we don't need to control our borders? Remember, about 60% of the crimes being committed are by illegal aliens who were previously deported. 

Impacts of Illegal Immigration: Crime Summary


----------



## chilliowens

Bullfighter said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> By the way Bullshitter.........here ya go.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United States of America
> Main article: United States Coast Guard
> 
> The U.S. Coast Guard (USCG) is both a military and a law enforcement service. It is one of the seven components of the uniformed services of the United States and one of the five elements of the United States armed forces. Its role includes enforcement of US law, coastal defense, and search and rescue.[19]
> 
> During peacetime the USCG falls under the administration of the United States Department of Homeland Security. During wartime, the USCG may, at the direction of the President, report to the Secretary of the Navy; its resources, however, are integrated into U.S. military operations (see 14 U.S.C. § 34).
> 
> The USCG maintains an extensive fleet of coastal and ocean-going patrol ships, called cutters by tradition, and small craft, as well as an extensive aviation division consisting of HH-65 Dolphin and HH-60 Jayhawk helicopters and fixed wing aircraft such as the C-130 Hercules, HU-25 Guardian, and HC-144 Ocean Sentry. USCG helicopters are equipped with hoists to rescue survivors and also play a major role in law enforcement. The helicopters are able to land and take off from USCG cutters, making them an indispensable tool in fighting illegal drug traffic and the influx of illegal migrants. The fixed wing aircraft are used for long range search and rescue and law enforcement patrols.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coast guard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Like I said Bullshitter, you ought to do some research before making yourself look stupider than you already are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And what part of the so-called 2,000 mile US-Mexico border do your CG buddies guard?
> 
> OK mister military genius!! What is the plan against a MILITARY ATTACK made by Mexico? This ought to be REALLY GOOD!
> 
> I know what you would do................
> 
> SURRENDER THE UNITED STATES...
> 
> then hop on a Carnival Cruise to parts unknown.
> 
> Try to outrun the Mexican Navy!!
Click to expand...


Bullfighter, bikesailor suonds like another one of those pro immigration pussy who wont come out of the closet and just admit it, instead they want to try everything that wont work,use an inempt agency like the CG a one dementional agency who offers assets with the least amount of impact. Opposes any type of border security upgread such as a more effecent fence dead man zones(mine fields) increased manpower,etc. This jackoff is probably  in favor of amnesty, Choose a side ether with the Mexican or the citizens of the USA.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Solutions To The Illegal Immigration Problem*

That said, what are we to do with the 12+ million illegal aliens currently in the country? If *12 million is a problem, then 25 million is a much bigger problem.* When a water pipe breaks in your house, the very first thing you do is to *shut off the water *and then the mess is cleaned up. This is common sense that most in the Government seem to be missing. 

Illegal immigration must be treated in the same way. This requires two different set of actions: first *slowing down and ultimately preventing entry *and then making *it harder for existing illegal aliens to live and stay *in the US while simultaneously *"encouraging" many to go home *as well as deporting others
Solutions To The Illegal Immigration Problem


----------



## LilOlLady

California Girl said:


> Here's *a funny one*. What do you call a poster who can't tell the difference between the "Immigration" forum from the "Humor" forum?
> 
> Answer: An Idiot.



You got that right. Anyone laughing their asses off?  *Immigration Humor* belongs in the *Immigration Forum?* Or the Administrator would move it?
*
Political Humor* in the *Political Forum?*


American Girl chill out and stop being so tight #$@.


----------



## ABikerSailor

chilliowens said:


> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> By the way Bullshitter.........here ya go.......
> 
> 
> 
> Coast guard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Like I said Bullshitter, you ought to do some research before making yourself look stupider than you already are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And what part of the so-called 2,000 mile US-Mexico border do your CG buddies guard?
> 
> OK mister military genius!! What is the plan against a MILITARY ATTACK made by Mexico? This ought to be REALLY GOOD!
> 
> I know what you would do................
> 
> SURRENDER THE UNITED STATES...
> 
> then hop on a Carnival Cruise to parts unknown.
> 
> Try to outrun the Mexican Navy!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullfighter, bikesailor suonds like another one of those pro immigration pussy who wont come out of the closet and just admit it, instead they want to try everything that wont work,use an inempt agency like the CG a one dementional agency who offers assets with the least amount of impact. Opposes any type of border security upgread such as a more effecent fence dead man zones(mine fields) increased manpower,etc. This jackoff is probably  in favor of amnesty, Choose a side ether with the Mexican or the citizens of the USA.
Click to expand...


Hey stupid.......I'm a 20 year US Navy veteran who has served in 4 war zones.  I understand about the border problem (I live in Texas), as well as know that the primary reason that we don't have secure borders is because nobody wants to spend the money. 

My suggestion is to put up 2 Predator (scan range is roughly 250 miles) drones every 200 miles, with 1 Reaper (the one with guns and missiles) every 200 miles. 

The first time that a gun runner gets blown away?  The rest will think twice about it.  As far as the Predators?  Have 'em scan the border, and when there are illegals crossing over, send in patrols to arrest and deport them.

Tell ya what Chili Owens, next time you decide to be a n00b on a message board?  At least find out about someone before you pop off that festering sore you call a mouth.

BTW Bullshitter, looks like your retarded little brother showed up in the form of Chili Owens.

But........gotta wonder about someone named "chili"............because he may be one of them Mexicans that you're so worried about.


----------



## Bullfighter

ABikerSailor said:


> [
> Hey stupid.......I'm a 20 year US Navy veteran who has served in 4 war zones. I understand about the border problem (I live in Texas), as well as know that the primary reason that we don't have secure borders is because nobody wants to spend the money.
> 
> My suggestion is to put up 2 Predator (scan range is roughly 250 miles) drones every 200 miles, with 1 Reaper (the one with guns and missiles) every 200 miles.
> 
> The first time that a gun runner gets blown away? The rest will think twice about it. As far as the Predators? Have 'em scan the border, and when there are illegals crossing over, send in patrols to arrest and deport them.
> 
> Tell ya what Chili Owens, next time you decide to be a n00b on a message board? At least find out about someone before you pop off that festering sore you call a mouth.
> 
> BTW Bullshitter, looks like your retarded little brother showed up in the form of Chili Owens.
> 
> But........gotta wonder about someone named "chili"............because he may be one of them Mexicans that you're so worried about.


 
What a relief! Just knowing that you're in Texas and a thousand miles away from Chicago makes me feel much better. And the fact that you aren't near any real weapons that the US military has makes me feel even safer.

 I say we arm all the black kids that got their jobs stolen by taco heads and see if we can march to Mexico and take the country away from the banditos.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Bullfighter said:


> What a relief! Just knowing that you're in Texas and a thousand miles away from Chicago makes me feel much better. And the fact that you aren't near any real weapons that the US military has makes me feel even safer.
> 
> I say we arm all the black kids that got their jobs stolen by taco heads and see if we can march to Mexico and take the country away from the banditos.



You're in CHICAGO and bitching about Mexicans?  Where the fuck are they coming from, Canada?  Yeah.......some hero..........living all the way at the north, when the real problem is down at the south.  I'm closer (and probably better informed) than you are Bullshitter.

Not near any "real weapons"?  Well........Clovis is only 90 miles away (lots of stuff on that base) as well as the Navy detachment is over in Oklahoma City (about 250 miles away).

Oh yeah..........Amarillo is where Pantex is.  That's the company that makes nuclear weapons.

Any other idiocy that you'd like to spew?  More racism perhaps?  Why is it that you specifically designate blacks to be armed and take out the Mexicans, where are the white boys?

If they're like you, they're hiding in their parent's basement.


----------



## High_Gravity

ABikerSailor said:


> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a relief! Just knowing that you're in Texas and a thousand miles away from Chicago makes me feel much better. And the fact that you aren't near any real weapons that the US military has makes me feel even safer.
> 
> I say we arm all the black kids that got their jobs stolen by taco heads and see if we can march to Mexico and take the country away from the banditos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're in CHICAGO and bitching about Mexicans?  Where the fuck are they coming from, Canada?  Yeah.......some hero..........living all the way at the north, when the real problem is down at the south.  I'm closer (and probably better informed) than you are Bullshitter.
> 
> Not near any "real weapons"?  Well........Clovis is only 90 miles away (lots of stuff on that base) as well as the Navy detachment is over in Oklahoma City (about 250 miles away).
> 
> Oh yeah..........Amarillo is where Pantex is.  That's the company that makes nuclear weapons.
> 
> Any other idiocy that you'd like to spew?  More racism perhaps?  Why is it that you specifically designate blacks to be armed and take out the Mexicans, where are the white boys?
> 
> If they're like you, they're hiding in their parent's basement.
Click to expand...


Whites who really hate Mexicans rarely have a high opinion of black people.


----------



## Bullfighter

> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> You're in CHICAGO and bitching about Mexicans? Where the fuck are they coming from, Canada? Yeah.......some hero..........living all the way at the north, when the real problem is down at the south. I'm closer (and probably better informed) than you are Bullshitter.
> 
> 
> 
> Since Illinois is the state with the greatest amount of gang members per capita and Chicago is the distribution hub for drugs from Mexico, I can see why a guy who claims to "serve and protect"  Americans would want to live as close to the border as possible so he can jump ship if thing get nasty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not near any "real weapons"? Well........Clovis is only 90 miles away (lots of stuff on that base) as well as the Navy detachment is over in Oklahoma City (about 250 miles away).
> 
> Oh yeah..........Amarillo is where Pantex is. That's the company that makes nuclear weapons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just as long as they don't put any in your hands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any other idiocy that you'd like to spew? More racism perhaps? Why is it that you specifically designate blacks to be armed and take out the Mexicans, where are the white boys?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Must be that blacks did riot against the Mexicanos during the last few invasion rallies. Makes me ashamed to be in the same race as those "serve and protect" guys who are afraid to crack some illegals skull.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If they're like you, they're hiding in their parent's basement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If they're like you, their renting their parents basement to those wonderful illegals.
Click to expand...


----------



## Bullfighter

High_Gravity said:


> [Whites who really hate Mexicans rarely have a high opinion of black people.


 
And yet my hero is 1st Lieutenant John R Fox, a black American who won the Medal of Honor during WW2.


----------



## High_Gravity

Bullfighter said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> [Whites who really hate Mexicans rarely have a high opinion of black people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet my hero is 1st Lieutenant John R Fox, a black American who won the Medal of Honor during WW2.
Click to expand...


I'm not saying your like that, I'm just saying most of the people I encountered that hate Mexicans mostly have blacks coming in at #2 on their hate list.


----------



## Bullfighter

High_Gravity said:


> [
> I'm not saying your like that, I'm just saying most of the people I encountered that hate Mexicans mostly have blacks coming in at #2 on their hate list.


 
I hate Mexicans only to the point of removing them from the United States and maybe from part of Mexico too. Their invasion of the US is illegal and they should have to pay for any damage they have done. Blacks are Americans and maybe more American than me. I have nothing against them. I wish them all the best.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Bullfighter said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> You're in CHICAGO and bitching about Mexicans? Where the fuck are they coming from, Canada? Yeah.......some hero..........living all the way at the north, when the real problem is down at the south. I'm closer (and probably better informed) than you are Bullshitter.
> 
> 
> 
> Since Illinois is the state with the greatest amount of gang members per capita and Chicago is the distribution hub for drugs from Mexico, I can see why a guy who claims to "serve and protect"  Americans would want to live as close to the border as possible so he can jump ship if thing get nasty.
> 
> 
> 
> Just as long as they don't put any in your hands.
> 
> 
> Must be that blacks did riot against the Mexicanos during the last few invasion rallies. Makes me ashamed to be in the same race as those "serve and protect" guys who are afraid to crack some illegals skull.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If they're like you, they're hiding in their parent's basement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If they're like you, their renting their parents basement to those wonderful illegals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Okay.........post a link to prove that Chicago has a higher gang population than Los Angeles, because under the standards of USMB, when you're challenged, it's up to you to post the link to prove your point.
> 
> As long as they don't put any weapons in my hands?  What makes you think that I don't have any NOW?
> 
> BTW stupid......."serve and protect" is the motto of the police force.
> 
> And no......haven't been in my parents basement since I was 8.  That's when I was orphaned.
> 
> Ya got anything else Bullshitter?  BTW cock monkey, post the link to prove that Chicago has higher gang populations than LA.
Click to expand...


----------



## Bullfighter

> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> Okay.........post a link to prove that Chicago has a higher gang population than Los Angeles, because under the standards of USMB, when you're challenged, it's up to you to post the link to prove your point.
> 
> 
> 
> I said ILLINOIS had the highest gang population per capita.
> 
> This should be clear enough!
> D-Links - National Gang Threat Assessment 2009
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As long as they don't put any weapons in my hands? What makes you think that I don't have any NOW?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now I'm starting to sweat!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW stupid......."serve and protect" is the motto of the police force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's all the same bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And no......haven't been in my parents basement since I was 8. That's when I was orphaned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like I give a shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ya got anything else Bullshitter? BTW cock monkey, post the link to prove that Chicago has higher gang populations than LA.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have you considered laser surgery to correct your bad vision. Or do you just read into thing whatever you want?
Click to expand...


----------



## Bullfighter

This is more your speed!

With kung fu grip and realistic sphincter muscles!!


----------



## DiveCon

Bullfighter said:


> This is more your speed!
> 
> With kung fu grip and realistic sphincter muscles!!


ok, i dont agree with you on just about anything, but DAMN that is funny


----------



## chilliowens

ABikerSailor said:


> chilliowens said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> And what part of the so-called 2,000 mile US-Mexico border do your CG buddies guard?
> 
> OK mister military genius!! What is the plan against a MILITARY ATTACK made by Mexico? This ought to be REALLY GOOD!
> 
> I know what you would do................
> 
> SURRENDER THE UNITED STATES...
> 
> then hop on a Carnival Cruise to parts unknown.
> 
> Try to outrun the Mexican Navy!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullfighter, bikesailor suonds like another one of those pro immigration pussy who wont come out of the closet and just admit it, instead they want to try everything that wont work,use an inempt agency like the CG a one dementional agency who offers assets with the least amount of impact. Opposes any type of border security upgread such as a more effecent fence dead man zones(mine fields) increased manpower,etc. This jackoff is probably  in favor of amnesty, Choose a side ether with the Mexican or the citizens of the USA.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey stupid.......I'm a 20 year US Navy veteran who has served in 4 war zones.  I understand about the border problem (I live in Texas), as well as know that the primary reason that we don't have secure borders is because nobody wants to spend the money.
> 
> My suggestion is to put up 2 Predator (scan range is roughly 250 miles) drones every 200 miles, with 1 Reaper (the one with guns and missiles) every 200 miles.
> 
> The first time that a gun runner gets blown away?  The rest will think twice about it.  As far as the Predators?  Have 'em scan the border, and when there are illegals crossing over, send in patrols to arrest and deport them.
> 
> Tell ya what Chili Owens, next time you decide to be a n00b on a message board?  At least find out about someone before you pop off that festering sore you call a mouth.
> 
> BTW Bullshitter, looks like your retarded little brother showed up in the form of Chili Owens.
> 
> But........gotta wonder about someone named "chili"............because he may be one of them Mexicans that you're so worried about.
Click to expand...


Sailor, are you part of the dont ask dont tell? That would explain you passive approach to border security. As of right now Predator Drones and Blackhawks are being used out of Davis Monthan Air Force Base with very limited success.  Maybe if you spent some time on dry land on the front lines where the real action was you might understand the need ground troops and their assets. I am a 44 yr old White male who has Mexican cousins, but imp still in favor of mass deportations and a closed border. And as for spending money your wrong again, illegals cost the American tax payer 300 million dollars a year in social services, legal services etc, that could be used better security system along our border. Its the US Government not the American citizens who are against spending the money. Lobbyist for American big business in Mexico do a good job of buying votes against any legislation about border security and immigration. Thats why you hear more about amnesty than you do about a solution to the problem from our politicians. So ether talk about a real solution on this issue and provide some useful data or go back to playing Modern Warfare on your kids XBOX.


----------



## Bullfighter

chilliowens said:


> [Sailor, are you part of the dont ask dont tell? That would explain you passive approach to border security. As of right now Predator Drones and Blackhawks are being used out of Davis Monthan Air Force Base with very limited success. Maybe if you spent some time on dry land on the front lines where the real action was you might understand the need ground troops and their assets. I am a 44 yr old White male who has Mexican cousins, but imp still in favor of mass deportations and a closed border. And as for spending money your wrong again, illegals cost the American tax payer 300 million dollars a year in social services, legal services etc, that could be used better security system along our border. Its the US Government not the American citizens who are against spending the money. Lobbyist for American big business in Mexico do a good job of buying votes against any legislation about border security and immigration. Thats why you hear more about amnesty than you do about a solution to the problem from our politicians. So ether talk about a real solution on this issue and provide some useful data or go back to playing Modern Warfare on your kids XBOX.


 
The American politician must first admit that it is there job to protect American citizens from foreign intrusion no matter how it is done.

The American politician must also recognize that any help given to those foreign intruders works against the very idea of self determination which is the hallmark of democracy.

The American politician must choose sides in this war. There is no middle ground. Foreign intruders must be removed with any family they built on this side of the border. Those organizations that work to destroy the fabric of the American way of life must themselves be destroyed and any funds stolen from the American people must be recovered even if force must be used to do so.


----------



## hortysir

hortysir said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey stupid, if you are a legal immigrant in this country then you have a green card, a green card that must be on your person at all times. That's the law.* If you are a citizen and you are asked for an ID by LEO then you must present an ID in the form of a DL or state issued ID, again that's the the law. *You don't like the law? Then seek to change it or move your ass to another country, where the laws will probably be much more strict.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey stupid, *State issued IDs, and DL's are NOT proof of citizenship.* Americans currently DO NOT have to prove their citizenship-according to your own words (as you agreed they have to show one of a DL or a state issued identification). Therefore the law does NOT state an American has to prove their citizenship. You can't have 1 law saying you only have to issue a DL, or state ID, and another law stating you have to prove citizenship. They contradict each other.
> 
> Let's say you or me (I'm assuming you're American), are driving and are pulled over. We're asked to PROVE CITIZENSHIP. We only have a DL on us. We're going to jail.
> 
> Maybe you should think about the law-because in your post you prove that very point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're not really in Florida are you?
> You know? The state where you have to show your birth certificate, social security card, AND 2 pieces of mail with your name on it in order to get a license??
Click to expand...





hey, JamesIn Wherever, I thought you said you repLIED to this.

Still waiting, pillow-muncher


----------



## Bullfighter

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Man !!!! So much hatred amongst you native Americans !! Y'all aint gonna go on the war path are ya? Do I hear war drums?


 
Yeah! White people fucked up the "naive" American!


----------



## Bullfighter

California Girl said:


> Here's a funny one. What do you call a poster who can't tell the difference between the "Immigration" forum from the "Humor" forum?
> 
> Answer: An Idiot.


 
What do you call a female poster who still lives in California?

Answer: Puta.


----------



## LilOlLady

*CATO Institute Finds $180 Billion Benefit to Legalizing Illegal Immigrants*
By Daphne Eviatar | 08.14.09 

A new study from the libertarian CATO Institute concludes that legalizing the more than eight million undocumented workers in the United States would have *significant economic benefits* for the country, while simply enhancing border enforcement and applying restrictive immigration laws would actually *hurt the U.S. economically*.

The new report, written by Professor Peter B. Dixon and Research Fellow Maureen T. Rimmer at the Centre of Policy Studies at Monash University in Australia, relies on an economic model used by the *U.S. Departments of Commerce, Agriculture*, and *Homeland Security*, as well as *International Trade Commission*


CATO Institute Finds $180 Billion Benefit to Legalizing Illegal Immigrants | The Washington Independent


*Go figure.*
We don't have "low skilled" workers?


----------



## Intense

How come only 8 Million??? What does that cover??? The NorthEast???


----------



## 007

The cato institute is nothing more than another generic, radical left wing group funded by that anti American piece of shit george soros. The man has openly admitted he wants to see America fail. He should be shot, court marshaled and sent to the Russian front.


----------



## Greenbeard

Pale Rider said:


> The cato institute is nothing more than another generic, radical left wing group . . .


----------



## uscitizen

Pale Rider said:


> The cato institute is nothing more than another generic, radical left wing group funded by that anti American piece of shit george soros. The man has openly admitted he wants to see America fail. He should be shot, court marshaled and sent to the Russian front.



The Cato Institute Is a Libertarian group.  More right wing than left.
They are very pro business.


----------



## uscitizen

Intense said:


> How come only 8 Million??? What does that cover??? The NorthEast???



that covers the AG and lawn care inductries?


----------



## sangha

Greenbeard said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> 
> The cato institute is nothing more than another generic, radical left wing group . . .
Click to expand...


There's no limit to wingnut stupidity


----------



## sangha

Intense said:


> How come only 8 Million??? What does that cover??? The NorthEast???



Learn to read. It says "more than 8 million" NOT "only 8 million"


----------



## Intense

sangha said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> How come only 8 Million??? What does that cover??? The NorthEast???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Learn to read. It says "more than 8 million" NOT "only 8 million"
Click to expand...


Let me know when it reads more than 30 Million.  Try not to be so Judgmental.  Merry Christmas Sangha!


----------



## sangha

Intense said:


> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> How come only 8 Million??? What does that cover??? The NorthEast???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Learn to read. It says "more than 8 million" NOT "only 8 million"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let me know when it reads more than 30 Million.
Click to expand...


I'm not surprised that you prefer a lie


----------



## Intense

sangha said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Learn to read. It says "more than 8 million" NOT "only 8 million"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let me know when it reads more than 30 Million.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not surprised that you prefer a lie
Click to expand...


Yep, Every year people flood over the Border, Every year, the claim stayed a 12 Million, now the claim is down to 8 Million, and you accuse me of Lying.     
Merry Christmas Sangha!


----------



## sangha

Intense said:


> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let me know when it reads more than 30 Million.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not surprised that you prefer a lie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep, Every year people flood over the Border, Every year, the claim stayed a 12 Million, now the claim is down to 8 Million, and you accuse me of Lying.
> Merry Christmas Sangha!
Click to expand...


Only a wingnut would wonder why fewer people sneak into the US for jobs during a period of high unemployment


----------



## Intense

sangha said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not surprised that you prefer a lie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, Every year people flood over the Border, Every year, the claim stayed a 12 Million, now the claim is down to 8 Million, and you accuse me of Lying.
> Merry Christmas Sangha!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only a wingnut would wonder why fewer people sneak into the US for jobs during a period of high unemployment
Click to expand...


The more that come, the less you acknowledge.  You count worse than Al Gore!    Those numbers just keep going down, yet my streets are more crowded every year. Good play.


----------



## sangha

Intense said:


> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, Every year people flood over the Border, Every year, the claim stayed a 12 Million, now the claim is down to 8 Million, and you accuse me of Lying.
> Merry Christmas Sangha!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only a wingnut would wonder why fewer people sneak into the US for jobs during a period of high unemployment
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The more that come, the less you acknowledge.  You count worse than Al Gore!    Those numbers just keep going down, yet my streets are more crowded every year. Good play.
Click to expand...


Then move out of the ghetto, or can't you afford a decent place to live


----------



## Intense

sangha said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only a wingnut would wonder why fewer people sneak into the US for jobs during a period of high unemployment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The more that come, the less you acknowledge.  You count worse than Al Gore!    Those numbers just keep going down, yet my streets are more crowded every year. Good play.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then move out of the ghetto, or can't you afford a decent place to live
Click to expand...


You are really good at diverting and avoiding  argument and reality both.


----------



## sangha

Intense said:


> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> The more that come, the less you acknowledge.  You count worse than Al Gore!    Those numbers just keep going down, yet my streets are more crowded every year. Good play.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then move out of the ghetto, or can't you afford a decent place to live
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are really good at diverting and avoiding  argument and reality both.
Click to expand...


And you're really good at thinking "anecdote = statistics"


----------



## LilOlLady

Intense said:


> sangha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let me know when it reads more than 30 Million.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not surprised that you prefer a lie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep, Every year people flood over the Border, Every year, the claim stayed a 12 Million, now the claim is down to 8 Million, and you accuse me of Lying.
> Merry Christmas Sangha!
Click to expand...


Didn't 4 million go back to Mexico because of the economy?


----------



## LilOlLady

*DO THE RIGHT THING FOR AMERICA.*
The lives and future of America is at risk.



Enforcement is the only solution to illegal immigration. It has been tested and worked in the past. Not the Dream Act or Com. Immig. Reform that encourages more illegal immigration.

American students, from pre-school upward are already competing with children of illegal aliens for education and jobs. Parents of American children are already competing for jobs with parents of illegal liens children.



Put illegal alien children on a path to citizenship through the Dream Act and their parents on a path to citizenship through Comp. Immig. Reform and it will create more competition for American children and their parents.



Illegal aliens have cost this country and Americans economically. Hospitals across the country has gone bankrupt because illegal aliens use Emergency Rooms for their primary healthcare, they use delivery room to deliver they anchor babies and do not pay their bill. They take jobs and lower wages for skilled an unskilled American workers. 



Children of illegal aliens lower the standard of education for American children because they usually have to be taught English before they can be taught reading, writing and arithmetic. Taking teaching time away from the American child. Resulting in failing schools, failing teachers and failing children. Then came the Voucher Program that further took away from the failing public schools and the children left behind in them and displace good teachers who can only do so much. We never had failing schools, failing teacher and failing students until our schools became over crowded with children of illegal aliens who had to be taught English before academically. 



Not to mention the crime that comes with illegal immigration. 20 million illegal aliens are not all hard working people who only want to take care of their families. Because of illegal alien criminals our prisons are overcrowded resulting with the release of thousand of criminals back on our streets on citizens.



The depletion of our natural resources. We have a shortage of drinking water and water to grow crops to feed this country. Resulting in exporting much of our food source that put Americans and their animals at risk. Our social services are over extended, welfare, food stamps, medical care, public housing and HUD subsidized housing and those programs are cut and benefits or cut. There is nothing positive about illegal immigration. Even our homeless are being displaced by homeless illegal aliens they have to compete with.



Our government has to do the right thing for Americans and America if we are going to get through these hard time and survive as a nation. Americans are struggling and they don&#8217;t need anything that makes that struggle harder. *Illegal immigration is not all the problem, but it added to the problem.*


My brother had a lucrative painting business, hired several Americans to work with him. Because illegal aliens underbid and took jobs from his business the lost his business. His employees lost their jobs. He lost his home and rentals. He lost his wife and finally took his life. How many more Americans have lost because of cheap labor? Americans have taken their lives and the lives for their families because of the economy exacerbated by illegal immigration and cheap labor.


----------



## editec

Tell me Lilo

Do you also understand why FREE TRADE is the same sort of betrayal of Americans?


----------



## LilOlLady

*Nevada&#8217;s percentage of illegal immigrants in workforce tops nation*
By Timothy Pratt

Tuesday, April 14, 2009 | 9:47 a.m.

Nevada tops the nation when it comes to the percentage of illegal immigrants in the workforce, according to a report issued today by the Pew Hispanic Center.

The Washington-based think tank estimates that *170,000 workers, or 12.2 percent of the state's total, are illegal immigrants*. That is* more than twice the national average, *which is 5.4 percent. The top five were rounded out by California, Arizona, New Jersey and Florida. The figures are 2008 estimates

Nevada's percentage of illegal immigrants in workforce tops nation - Tuesday, April 14, 2009 | 9:47 a.m. - Las Vegas Sun

*AND Nevada has the highest unemployment rate. 14.3% in July.*
Nevada Sets New High For Unemployment At 14.3%
*
Could Reid be part of the problem also?*


----------



## LilOlLady

editec said:


> Tell me Lilo
> 
> Do you also understand why FREE TRADE is the same sort of betrayal of Americans?



 YES, and they is way I said illegal immigration is not *ALL* the blame.


----------



## sangha

LilOlLady said:


> *Nevadas percentage of illegal immigrants in workforce tops nation*
> By Timothy Pratt
> 
> Tuesday, April 14, 2009 | 9:47 a.m.
> 
> Nevada tops the nation when it comes to the percentage of illegal immigrants in the workforce, according to a report issued today by the Pew Hispanic Center.
> 
> The Washington-based think tank estimates that *170,000 workers, or 12.2 percent of the state's total, are illegal immigrants*. That is* more than twice the national average, *which is 5.4 percent. The top five were rounded out by California, Arizona, New Jersey and Florida. The figures are 2008 estimates
> 
> Nevada's percentage of illegal immigrants in workforce tops nation - Tuesday, April 14, 2009 | 9:47 a.m. - Las Vegas Sun
> 
> *AND Nevada has the highest unemployment rate. 14.3% in July.*
> Nevada Sets New High For Unemployment At 14.3%



Nevada's business owners are using the tax cuts to create new jobs!!!!













































For illegal immigrants!!!!  

That's wingnut economic policy for you!!


----------



## Intense

Free Trade, when it employ's Child, Prison, and Slave Labor is an Oxymoron, or Double Speak at best. The problem is not the Free Market Concept, not where and when value for value is practiced. The Problem is when Oligarchy Capitalism or State Capitalism comes in and corrupts the market at every level.


----------



## LilOlLady

Dirty Work
What are the jobs Americans won't do?
By Daniel Gross
Posted Friday, Jan. 12, 2007, at 6:36 AM ET


Yet it's increasingly common to hear politicians, CEOs, and immigration activists impugn American workers as *a bunch of shiftless layabouts who regard many good jobs as beneath their dignity. *That, they say, is why employers have to turn to immigrantssome of them legal, many of them illegal. To hear CEOs tell it, they'd much rather hire English-speaking, tax-paying U.S. citizens, people who won't disrupt operations by getting rounded up in Homeland Security sweeps. But they just *can't find any Americans willing to do their jobs*. As President Bush himself said last March, the United States needs a temporary guest-worker program that would *"match willing foreign workers with willing American employers to fill jobs that Americans will not do."*

In December 2006, Mickey Kaus discussed the immigration raid at Swift & Co. In October 2006, Kaus wondered whether President Bush would sign the bill authorizing construction of a 700-mile fence along the Mexico border. In April 2006, Jacob Weisberg argued that the* U.S. does not need a big immigration-reform bill.* In May 2005, Daniel Gross wondered if there was a link between immigration applications and the fluctuating value of the U.S. dollar.What are these jobs that Americans will not do? Do they exist? Or are they a figment of the business community's imagination? It turns out that their claims are largely true*there are plenty of jobs Americans avoid*. Let's take a tour of them. Americans shun pretty much any unskilled labor that requires them to *get their hands dirty*: *landscaping, entry-level construction, picking fruits and vegetables *(Reuters reports that "up to 70 percent of U.S. farm workers are estimated to be undocumented, totaling about 500,000 people"), *cleaning hotel rooms, busing tables, and prep cooking in urban restaurants.*

What are the jobs Americans won't do? - By Daniel Gross - Slate Magazine

Dirty Jobs Americans Supposedly Won't Do


----------



## LilOlLady

I've never seen an illegal aliens dumpster diving for aluminum cans,  picking fruits and vegetables in Reno and other large cities with large populations of illegals. 20 million illegals are not getting their hands dirty doing back breaking work in 107* heat.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Report Shows Unauthorized Immigrants Leaving U.S.*by Jennifer Ludden
September 1, 2010 

ICE is now deporting some 400,000 immigrants a year, double the number just a few years back. 
There has also been mounting anecdotal evidence in recent years that some immigrants, fearful of arrest, are deciding to leave the U.S. on their own. 
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =129578179



*Now that they are finally self deporting, why are Obama and Reid inticing them to stay with the Dream Act and Comp. Immig. Reform?*


----------



## Lasher

I hope something hits them in their asses on the way out.


----------



## Marc39

Lasher said:


> I hope something hits them in their asses on the way out.



Your finger is up your ass, loser.


----------



## LilOlLady

* Student ILLEGALS Threaten Race Riots Over Loss of Amnesty*One Old Vet  Student ILLEGALS Threaten Race Riots Over Loss of Amnesty

Children of illegal alien respond to the Dream Act being defeated by demanding their civil rights as the blacks demanded for their civil rights in the 60s.

I ask when? Has illegal aliens segregated, had to sit in the back of the bus, after getting on the bus and buying the ticket, having to get off the bus and board the bus through the rear door, could not eat at lunch counters, separated drinking fountains, rest rooms and waiting rooms, hung for just being Mexican, called boy or gal no matter how old you were, dogs let loose on them, hosed down with water, could only live in Mexican section of town, having your churches bombed, being bussed to white school cafeterias to eat after white children had eaten, after being enslaved for hundreds of years, etc. Do Mexican children even know what Jim Crow mean?

How dare children of illegal aliens try to compare their not given legalization under the Dream Act to the atrocities Blacks had to endure just to stay alive? It is offensive to every Black person to make such comparison.

When Mexican children live the hundreds of years treated as sub-human, shut the fuck up and go home. Blacks do not have a home to go to. They were forced from their homeland, torn from families, shackled and treated worse then the animals transported with them.

Where is Jackson, Sharpton, Cosby, West and all the black representatives who listen to this garbage and say nothing? How dare them.


----------



## westwall

They didn't do to well during the Rodney King riots they will do worse in this type of riot.  The only bad part is a lot of good folks will get hurt by accident.


----------



## Douger

Mini 14 said:


> The only way Mexico will ever win another war is if France invades Acapulco.


Lemme see here. It's been about 8 years. How are things going in the sand pits where they have no artillery, planes, choppers...........?
Keep waving that flag.


----------



## westwall

Douger said:


> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only way Mexico will ever win another war is if France invades Acapulco.
> 
> 
> 
> Lemme see here. It's been about 8 years. How are things going in the sand pits where they have no artillery, planes, choppers...........?
> Keep waving that flag.
Click to expand...





I suggest you look up the King riots there dougie.  The Koreans had a 24 to one kill rate alone.


----------



## Douger

westwall said:


> Douger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only way Mexico will ever win another war is if France invades Acapulco.
> 
> 
> 
> Lemme see here. It's been about 8 years. How are things going in the sand pits where they have no artillery, planes, choppers...........?
> Keep waving that flag.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suggest you look up the King riots there dougie.  The Koreans had a 24 to one kill rate alone.
Click to expand...

The Koreans were fighting a bunch of yard apes, not the fucking US military...........However........... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm Could that be the problem ?


----------



## TossObama

Intense said:


> Free Trade, when it employ's Child, Prison, and Slave Labor is an Oxymoron, or Double Speak at best. The problem is not the Free Market Concept, not where and when value for value is practiced. The Problem is when Oligarchy Capitalism or State Capitalism comes in and corrupts the market at every level.



I must respectfully disagree that the concept of a so-called "free market" is not the problem. It is the problem. Why? Because that concept places control of worldwide food supplies into the hands of the heinous. From that position in the so-called "free market" they easily plan and execute man made famines. Who now controls Commodities?? The Vatican. Have you noticed how expensive food has become? Food prices are rising daily and Obama -- the President of the strongest country on the planet, is sitting on his tail allowing this thing to happen.


As well, "free market" and "free trade" has also come to mean people -- trading people. Bush even signed a treaty with Mexico making Mexicans "things" of "free trade".


It's nazism on a grand, worldwide scale and it gives them the total control they require to do as they please to anybody.


----------



## TossObama

Ah the parish priests in Arizona are at it again, eh? 

They actually think they are going to spark what? A civil war??

They might want to rethink their designs. We know all about the Vatican hands in this picture. You betcha.


----------



## TossObama

Don't kid yourself. They aren't "self deporting". They are going home to satisfy green card requirements which requires that they leave America for short periods, then they can return.

As well, many return home for holiday celebrations and religious demands.

Just once in the greater scheme of things, I wish the American people were told all the facts on this immigration issue.


----------



## Angelhair

LilOlLady said:


> *Report Shows Unauthorized Immigrants Leaving U.S.*by Jennifer Ludden
> September 1, 2010
> 
> ICE is now deporting some 400,000 immigrants a year, double the number just a few years back.
> There has also been mounting anecdotal evidence in recent years that some immigrants, fearful of arrest, are deciding to leave the U.S. on their own.
> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =129578179
> 
> 
> 
> *Now that they are finally self deporting, why are Obama and Reid inticing them to stay with the Dream Act and Comp. Immig. Reform?*



_Is an 'unauthorized' immigrant the same as an illegal immigrant?  _


----------



## Angelhair

_They are very good at blah, blah, blah - all talk no action. Have you not heard how when they speak they go on and on and on and on._


----------



## TossObama

The Parish Priests are exactly who has been organizing the rebellion in those people. 

And a WHOLE LOT of us Catholics are fed up with that crap.


----------



## william the wie

It's been going on for 2 years and Obama is increasing the pace of deportations. I don't like the guy and particularly I don't like what he says but in this area he is a big improvement on Bush.


----------



## The Infidel

TossObama said:


> Don't kid yourself. They aren't "self deporting". They are going home to satisfy green card requirements which requires that they leave America for short periods, then they can return.
> 
> As well, many return home for holiday celebrations and religious demands.
> 
> Just once in the greater scheme of things, I wish the American people were told all the facts on this immigration issue.



They also fail to mention the fact that they are coming over the border in record numbers... so sure "some" may be going home for whatever reason, but alot more are sneaking here in plain sight.


----------



## The Infidel

william the wie said:


> It's been going on for 2 years and Obama is increasing the pace of deportations. I don't like the guy and particularly I don't like what he says but in this area he is a big improvement on Bush.




This is bullshit... Im sorry, but no way!

Where is Obama on just the two incidents listed below?


*Authorities Release New Info in American's Shooting Death on U.S. Border Lake*

Authorities Release New Info in American's Shooting Death on U.S. Border Lake - FoxNews.com




*Mother forces Mexico to admit killing of her son*

Mother forces Mexico to admit killing of her son - Americas, World - The Independent


Obama is a coward..... he sits there and listens while President Felipe Calderon ripped Arizona's new law clamping down on illegal immigrants in front of Congress.

*When is Obama going to stand up and defend America????*
What a fraud! Just whose country is he behind?


----------



## Angelhair

_Obama is not only a coward but -  Is he with us or against us????_


----------



## LilOlLady

TossObama said:


> Don't kid yourself. They aren't "self deporting". They are going home to satisfy green card requirements which requires that they *leave America for short periods, then they can return*.
> 
> As well, many return home for *holiday celebrations and religious demands*.
> 
> Just once in the greater scheme of things, I wish the American people were told all the facts on this immigration issue.



 If you had the facts you would know that they are not getting back in. and they pay for the pack of  lies they receive that they can get back. I know a woman who tried to get back in to her child and could not. Unless she sprout wings and fly in she is stranded in Mexico indefinately.
Yes thousands are self deporting because they have lost their jobs and cannot find work. There are jobs in Mexico.
Fact is less are attempting to cross the border and there is more border control.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Convict Turned Youth Counselor Fights Deportation*
  December 29, 2010

SAN FRANCISCO -- *Community leaders *Tuesday were trying to convince Governor Schwarzenegger *to pardon a Chinese immigrant *who works as San Francisco youth counselor in one of his last acts before he leaves office to keep the counselor from being *deported because of his criminal record*.

"I didn't really fully comprehend the consequences of my actions to how much it affected the victims, the community, and my family." Zheng said. *"I was naïve. I was uneducated."* 
Convict Turned Youth Counselor Fights Deportation - News Story - KRXI Reno


----------



## Sunni Man

Let him be a youth counselor in China.


----------



## High_Gravity

Why didn't he apply for citizenship while he was here?


----------



## LilOlLady

*Napolitano creates dangerous loophole in Nations Security*
 December 26, 2010

Director of Homeland Security, Janet Napolitano, has agreed to setup a *Trusted Travel Program *between the U.S. and Mexico. It will allow Mexicans who are considered low security risk to* skip customs check points *when they fly into the U.S.

Critics say this lays out a *welcome mat for drug cartels *and others with evil intentions that are trying to get into the U.S. These individuals would only have to *pass a Mexican background chec*k and Napolitano believes that this would be good enough.

Napolitano creates dangerous loophole in Nations Security


----------



## LilOlLady

*Arizona Regains Footing in Legal Battle Over Immigration Law*
December 15, 2010
After suffering a major legal setback in the summer, *Arizona regained its footing in court *Friday when a *federal judge dismissed parts of the U.S.  Justice Department&#8217;s challenge to the state&#8217;s new immigration law *and *rejected several claims made by Hispanic activists and Phoenix police* 

http://illegalaliennewsupdate.com/arizona-regains-footing-in-legal-battle-over-immigration-law/


.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Toughest job in the world: Woman, 20, becomes police chief in one of Mexico's most violent border towns... because no one else will do it *

By David Gardner
Last updated at 12:58 PM on 21st October 2010
Comments (45) Add to My Stories A twenty-year-old woman has been appointed as police chief of one of Mexico&#8217;s most violent border towns.
Criminology student Marisol Valles Garcia is about to get a quick lesson in the harsh realities of keeping the peace in a state overrun by drug traffickers.
She took charge on Monday of security in crime-plagued Guadalupe Distrito Bravo, a town with a population of 10,000 close to the U.S. border.


Read more: Female student, 20, becomes police chief of one of Mexico's most violent towns | Mail Online

All these little punk ass bitches, anchor babies because Mexico is the country of their parents and those who were brought here illegally, need to take their riots back to their homeland and help this young lady fight for their country. How can we trust that they will fight with our young men and women against terrorist? If they had an ounce of patriotism and compassion toward their people they woud go home.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Amazing that Big Old Bitch's thread filled with racist bullshit is still alive.


----------



## LilOlLady

ABikerSailor said:


> Amazing that Big Old Bitch's thread filled with racist bullshit is still alive.



I will be speaking out against illegal immigraition until the last shovel of dirt covers my old stinking body. and beyond. and I am flat on my back and cannot move my legs at the moment as I am in a MS relapse. At least I am not pedaling my ass useless on a bike. or is that useless ass on a bike? Maybe you should pedal your ass down to Mexico and make yourself usefull fight drug cartels. 
All I hear from you is racist and more racist. I intend to continue to make myself an illegal alien's worse nightmare.


----------



## LilOlLady

Illegal aliens civil rights goes no farther than being treated civil while they are being evicted and deported back home. Civil rights for illegal does not equal citizenship or even a path to citizenship.


----------



## ABikerSailor

LilOlLady said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing that Big Old Bitch's thread filled with racist bullshit is still alive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be speaking out against illegal immigraition until the last shovel of dirt covers my old stinking body. and beyond. and I am flat on my back and cannot move my legs at the moment as I am in a MS relapse. At least I am not pedaling my ass useless on a bike. or is that useless ass on a bike? Maybe you should pedal your ass down to Mexico and make yourself usefull fight drug cartels.
> All I hear from you is racist and more racist. I intend to continue to make myself an illegal alien's worse nightmare.
Click to expand...


What's the matter Big Old Bitch?  Are ya pissed that you're unable to do anything other than bitch about the illegals on a board?

At least I don't contribute to pollution.  I ride everywhere I need to go in town.


----------



## Bullfighter

ABikerSailor said:


> [At least I don't contribute to pollution. I ride everywhere I need to go in town.


 
I'll bet you still have training wheels on that piece of junk. Why don't you put it in the water and see if you can track down some Mexicans in that stream of piss called the Rio Grande.


----------



## LilOlLady

ABikerSailor said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing that Big Old Bitch's thread filled with racist bullshit is still alive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be speaking out against illegal immigraition until the last shovel of dirt covers my old stinking body. and beyond. and I am flat on my back and cannot move my legs at the moment as I am in a MS relapse. At least I am not pedaling my ass useless on a bike. or is that useless ass on a bike? Maybe you should pedal your ass down to Mexico and make yourself usefull fight drug cartels.
> All I hear from you is racist and more racist. I intend to continue to make myself an illegal alien's worse nightmare.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's the matter Big Old Bitch?  Are ya pissed that you're unable to do anything other than bitch about the illegals *on a board?*
> At least I don't *contribute *to pollution.  I ride everywhere I need to go in town.
Click to expand...


 I do more than that punk ass bitch. If I only bitch on the board it more then pedaling my ass on a bike across town on a bike. Don't take any brains to do that, uh?
Learn any new words beside racist? Get a life and stop being a pesty little bug.
I doubt if you've contributed to anything to the human society in your miserable little existence.
Anyone using the screen name "aBikerSailor" has got to be a loser.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Last Cop In Mexico Town Missing | Female Officer Kidnapped In Guadalupe* [Video]
29 December 2010 

It seems that an entire town has been given over to the Mexican drug cartels, and people are wondering if this is a small view into things to come for the embattled country. The government has not yet retaliated to the kidnapping of Irma Erika Gándara, 28 was the only police officer in the whole town of Guadalupe, with nine thousand souls.

Story continues below&#8230;



Last Cop In Mexico Town Missing | Female Officer Kidnapped In Guadalupe [Video]]


----------



## LilOlLady

*Victims of Illegal Alien Crime*


FNCIC is the Foreign National Crime Information Center.  It is a registry and data base for serious crimes committed against people by foreign nationals in the United States.  VOIACM is the Victims of Illegal Alien Crime Memorial, which is a victim orientated presentation of the FNCIC data base.
The pictures you see above are* just a few of the Victims Of Illegal Alien Crime*.  

Through exclusive investigations, we have discovered that crimes committed by foreign nationals, including illegal aliens, on American soil are not tracked, recorded, or reported by the FBI or the Justice Department as being committed by foreign nationals. This includes all crimes, including those committed by illegal alien terrorists to illegal alien criminals who are currently *molesting, raping, killing, and murdering Americans *in shocking numbers.


FNCIC-VOIACM Foreign National Crime Information Center - Victims of Illegal Alien Crime Memorial

Nothing and no one, especially *worms like aBikerSailor* and his ranting is going to stop me from *speaking out against illegal immigration when ever and where ever I can*.
Are you listening, you fucking little worm?


----------



## LilOlLady

Article IV, Section 4 of the Constitution states, "The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union, a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against *invasion;* and on application of the legislature, or of the executive (when the legislature cannot be convened) against domestic violence."

Unfortunately, in our politically correct era, "invasion" and "domestic violence" are now parsed with the word "is." Regardless, our republican principals are being ignored, our* borders are being trampled, our laws broken, our sovereignty violated, and our citizens are under attack from outside peoples, foreign nationals*, who are committing more and more domestic violence, *denying American Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness, as well as Safety and Happiness*FNCIC-VOIACM Foreign National Crime Information Center - Victims of Illegal Alien Crime Memorial




_Also remember that you or* a member of your family *could just as easily be listed in FNCIC-VOIACM.

MY BROTHER IS._


----------



## TossObama

Watch out LilOLady, or you will be called conspiratorial. Ignoramuses and supporters of that violence will even bang a Bible at you.

The violence is a serious problem and has been for years. Just today in our newspaper here in Texas, a report told of a City in Mexico who has absolutely no Police whatsoever. They've all been killed or resigned. One Officer was left and now she's gone missing since around December 17.

If our Intelligence networks, with all their bells and whistles, can't properly investigate and shut down this obvious Vatican effort, something is way wrong in America. And THAT should be investigated as well.

But of course, we made a king sized mistake electing another unfit person for our President.

I say this as a Democrat AND a Catholic.

Finally, this violence gone unchecked is ushering in nazi violence. And they are connecting with rightwing goons in the USA. I received an information email about that European nazi trash again this week and they are most definately following the same nazi plans of WWII, including that filth that only they are genetically perfect. They are infiltrating BOTH our political parties in the USA under third party.

The far left Democrats are already planning to move over to another third party -- the Green Party (origin, Germany) trying to escape the pall they have created with their medical murder and abortion garbage. Interestingly, the far left Democrats embrace a lot of Hitler's vile programs and the far right pick up the rest of Hilter's vile programs.

Pope John Paul told all the Cardinals to "cast your nets far and wide". Little did we know ...


----------



## TossObama

The Aliens can't go back home because the Vatican goons have savaged all those areas with horrific violence.


This is immigration issue is happening all over the world, not just the Americas.


----------



## TossObama

Lonestar_logic said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *DREAM Act students vow revolution after act fails in the Senate "White People, Watch Out!"*
> by safari
> *
> This is war!* claims Phoenix student Aldemar Cruz. Republicans may
> have stopped the DREAM Act, but they wont prevent* La Reconquista *from
> happening. White people, watch out!
> 
> Olivia Perez, an undocumented student who claims she was forced to
> fill out false paperwork in order to stay in the United States, says,
> Latinos need to fight back. We need to march. We need to scream. If
> necessary, *we need to riot.* We need to do *everything Blacks did *to get their civil rights!
> 
> DREAM Act students vow revolution after act fails in the Senate "White People, Watch Out!" - Page 12
> 
> 
> 
> *IF it's war you want, it's war you will get*. Bring it on you liitle *#%$@ #@$% $$#% #q$#S*.
> 
> *"Give them and inch and they want a mile."*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The mexicans already got their asses kicked once. I reckon they're ready for round two.  Bring it on!
Click to expand...


Hey LoneStar! 

Six Generation Texans, Ten Generation Americans here!

This bunch not only fought the Brits, Indians, the nazis and the French, but marched to the Alamo where they fought and died. One of our kinsmen was also captured by Pancho Villa and forced to join his army or they'd kill him. (He used his wiles on Pancho and they became friends and remained so until their deaths decades later!)

Looks like Texas will have to LOAN Rick Perry to the country to clean this stinking mess up, and when he goes to DC, I'm sure he will take our Texas Rangers. From get to go, things will get cleaned up and back in shape.

And like I said, it's only a loan. We want the Perrys back here in Texas after they've fixed the country. We will however give all the Bushs to anyone willing to pay their travel expenses out of Texas -- on the condition they keep the Bushs forever. Those, we don't want back.

Our Perrys are pure blood Texans, and they are OURS.


----------



## hortysir

Bring it Juan


----------



## TossObama

ABikerSailor said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing that Big Old Bitch's thread filled with racist bullshit is still alive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be speaking out against illegal immigraition until the last shovel of dirt covers my old stinking body. and beyond. and I am flat on my back and cannot move my legs at the moment as I am in a MS relapse. At least I am not pedaling my ass useless on a bike. or is that useless ass on a bike? Maybe you should pedal your ass down to Mexico and make yourself usefull fight drug cartels.
> All I hear from you is racist and more racist. I intend to continue to make myself an illegal alien's worse nightmare.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's the matter Big Old Bitch?  Are ya pissed that you're unable to do anything other than bitch about the illegals on a board?
> 
> At least I don't contribute to pollution.  I ride everywhere I need to go in town.
Click to expand...


*** Hey tricycle man, watch your mouth. Got that?


----------



## ABikerSailor

LilOlLady said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will be speaking out against illegal immigraition until the last shovel of dirt covers my old stinking body. and beyond. and I am flat on my back and cannot move my legs at the moment as I am in a MS relapse. At least I am not pedaling my ass useless on a bike. or is that useless ass on a bike? Maybe you should pedal your ass down to Mexico and make yourself usefull fight drug cartels.
> All I hear from you is racist and more racist. I intend to continue to make myself an illegal alien's worse nightmare.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's the matter Big Old Bitch?  Are ya pissed that you're unable to do anything other than bitch about the illegals *on a board?*
> At least I don't *contribute *to pollution.  I ride everywhere I need to go in town.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I do more than that punk ass bitch. If I only bitch on the board it more then pedaling my ass on a bike across town on a bike. Don't take any brains to do that, uh?
> Learn any new words beside racist? Get a life and stop being a pesty little bug.
> I doubt if you've contributed to anything to the human society in your miserable little existence.
> Anyone using the screen name "aBikerSailor" has got to be a loser.
Click to expand...


I've got the name "A Biker Sailor" because not only was I an amateur racer (ranked no. 20 in the city of Memphis TN) of bicycles, but also because I have a Harley.

Oh yeah.......I also served this country for 20 years in the US Navy, through 4 war zones.

Still think I didn't contribute anything to human society?  I'd beg to differ.  What have YOU done for this country other than be a racist bitch?

Fuck off you goddamn pedant, go please purists, bitch.


----------



## Bullfighter

ABikerSailor said:


> [I've got the name "A Biker Sailor" because not only was I an amateur racer (ranked no. 20 in the city of Memphis TN) of bicycles, but also because I have a Harley.
> 
> Oh yeah.......I also served this country for 20 years in the US Navy, through 4 war zones.
> 
> Still think I didn't contribute anything to human society? I'd beg to differ. What have YOU done for this country other than be a racist bitch?
> 
> Fuck off you goddamn pedant, go please purists, bitch.


 
He served his country by AVOIDING contact with America's enemy, MEXICO, and wasted 20 years of taxpayer dollars claiming to fight people who are absolutely no threat to Americans. That is why he calls those who see the Mexicans as evil invaders, racist!


----------



## LilOlLady

*Law enforcement seeing increase of illegal immigrants jailed across Treasure Coast*
September 5th, 2010 by TCPalm.com 

The number of *convicted illegal immigrants *housed in Treasure Coast and Okeechobee jails has more than doubled since 2007.

The reason, local authorities said, is twofold: more illegal immigrants were coming to the area because the economy has been better here than in their own country, and they have a *desire to reunite with family already in the area *- no matter the consequence.

They come here for work - *agriculture, construction, day laborers, *Martin County Sheriff Bob Crowder said. *If there was no work here, then they would return to their own country.*When theyre here, some of them *commit crimes.*

Law enforcement seeing increase of illegal immigrants jailed across Treasure Coast | Treasure Coast Talk


----------



## LilOlLady

*Illegal Immigrants Cause 6% of Crime , which Costs$24 Billion *

David Wilson pointed out flaws in my earlier post on crime and illegal immigrants. My numbers were way off, but even when cut they support my ultimate conclusion:* the cost of crime by illegal aliens wipes out the economic gains from them*. And this is true even if it were to be the case, as Mr. Wilson suggests, *illegal aliens have a lower propensity to commit crime*---adjusting for age, sex, ethnicity, etc. --- than citizens do. (That's because for the question of how much they harm the U.S. , one shouldn't adjust: what matters is *how much crime they commit *in total, not how much crime they would commit if they were old and female.)

Eric Rasmusen's Weblog: Illegal Immigrants Cause 6% of Crime , which Costs$24 Billion

*Illegal Immigrants Cost America $84 Billion per Year Because of Crime*
http://www.rasmusen.org/x/2007/06/30/illegal-immigrants-cost-america-84year-because-of-crime/


----------



## TossObama

Immigration is so extreme all over the world, it has become a threat to Security for everyone. And that seems to be the real intent behind the massive shifts of populations across the globe.

Some nut had a plan, cut some deals outside the scope of citizens representations, and now the entire world is in a state of flux.

Here in the USA, the governments of Mexico, and South and Central American countries are controlled by the Vatican and all are pits of violence and terrorism. Their citizens are forced by their own governments to migrate to the USA, and even if they want to go home, they can't. The violence in their home countries is so bad they can't go home.

They need to move on, and migrate to Vatican City. The Vatican made this mess. The Vatican enjoys the lofty perch that isolates them from virtually all of the problems THEY created, so my thinking is the Vatican rats nest (which happens to be a bunch of stinking nazis), should be the responsible party and host for shifting populations migrating to Vatican City.


----------



## TossObama

ABikerSailor said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's the matter Big Old Bitch?  Are ya pissed that you're unable to do anything other than bitch about the illegals *on a board?*
> At least I don't *contribute *to pollution.  I ride everywhere I need to go in town.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do more than that punk ass bitch. If I only bitch on the board it more then pedaling my ass on a bike across town on a bike. Don't take any brains to do that, uh?
> Learn any new words beside racist? Get a life and stop being a pesty little bug.
> I doubt if you've contributed to anything to the human society in your miserable little existence.
> Anyone using the screen name "aBikerSailor" has got to be a loser.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've got the name "A Biker Sailor" because not only was I an amateur racer (ranked no. 20 in the city of Memphis TN) of bicycles, but also because I have a Harley.
> 
> Oh yeah.......I also served this country for 20 years in the US Navy, through 4 war zones.
> 
> Still think I didn't contribute anything to human society?  I'd beg to differ.  What have YOU done for this country other than be a racist bitch?
> 
> Fuck off you goddamn pedant, go please purists, bitch.
Click to expand...


*** Watch your mouth, tricycle man. That Harley and your experience on boats doesn't give you automatic entitlement to ANYTHING, buster, particularly the foul language you choose to fling around.

And no, I don't duck and run from Harley guys with tats and foul mouths. I'm not only a 10 gen American, a Catholic and a Democrat -- I've got a Harley in the garage.

And USAF, by the way.


----------



## LilOlLady

*With DREAM Act Shelved, Immigrants Look to 2012*&#8226;
 December 15, 2010
.....
Garibay, who came to Austin, Texas from Mexico City with her mother when she was 12, now has a *master&#8217;s degree in nursing *but is *unable to work in her chosen field because of her status.* Yet she said she won&#8217;t fade into the shadows after the vote. That, she said, is the biggest change from a decade ago.

With DREAM Act Shelved, Immigrants Look to 2012


Mexico needs you much more than we do. *Go there and help a desperate country*.   *MEXICO NEEDS IT'S NATIVE BORN*, especially the educated. *We educated you, now go home.*

*Nursing Jobs in Mexico *
If you are looking for *a permanent, per diem, or travel nursing job; in-patient, out-patient or hospice *you have come to the right place. We have partnered with the* leading hospitals, travel nurse companies and recruitment agencies *to help you find your dream nursing job!
http://mexico-mo.nursing-jobs.us/


----------



## LilOlLady

*Does U.S. need low-skilled workers? *


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9OoSmpGzfU[/ame]


----------



## José

Does the US need a *LITTLE OLD LADY* who pockets 23.000 dollar every year from the federal government just for being an Indian?

*HELL NO!!*


----------



## José

The US economy may not need low-skilled workers but it needs leeches even less!!


----------



## uscitizen

23.000 is not much money.

I assume that was a typo.  But yes america does need low skilled workers.  The teens and such that used to do much of the low skilled work ie lawncare temp ag  work, etc now are too spoiled to get off their overweight butts to do anything except go thru a drive thru.


----------



## uscitizen

Funny event today.
I went to a Fantastic Sams to get a haircut.
Sitting accross from me waiting were 3 teens and between them they were using 5 little electronic devices.  talking texting, browsing, etc.

I had to burst out laughing and they just thought I was a crazy old man I suppose.
Not that I am not a crazy old man but I am not a techie addict to the point that it runs my life.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *uscitizen*
> 23.000 is not much money.



Citizen, you have a well-deserved reputation for being a reasonable guy. A guy who simply stresses the need to enforce the US immigration laws *without insulting Mexico like it was rotten fish or advocating any kind of cruel treatment to illegal immigrants*.

Being a reasonable guy I'm sure you're gonna agree with me on this: 

23.000 is an awful lot of money for the "job" of being a native american citizen!!


----------



## uscitizen

José;3150534 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *uscitizen*
> 23.000 is not much money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Citizen, you have a well-deserved reputation for being a reasonable guy. A guy who simply stresses the need to enforce the US immigration laws *without insulting Mexico like it was rotten fish or advocating any kind of cruel treatment to illegal immigrants*.
> 
> Being a reasonable guy I'm sure you're gonna agree with me on this:
> 
> 23 k is an awful lot of money for the "job" of being a native american citizen!!
Click to expand...


What is the price for genocide and taking everything from many groups of native Americans?  Forcing your religion on them and doing your best to kill theirs?
Many of them still live in relative squalor on useless land.

How many get this 23k per year?

I think this is pretty much a non issue in the overall scheme of our problems.


----------



## LilOlLady

José;3150488 said:
			
		

> Does the US need a *LITTLE OLD LADY* who pockets 23.000 dollar every year from the federal government just for being an Indian?
> 
> *HELL NO!!*




$23,000 is from Indian land leased by the Federal Government. Indians do not receive money from the government *JUST FOR BEING INDIAN.* *Kiss off Jose *


----------



## TossObama

I'm beginning to think different areas of the USA could be experiencing a variety of issues that are different from one State to another.

Texas is a multi-cultural State and always has been. And we have highly skilled, highly talented people here. We don't have the Immigration issues I'm seeing happen in other States. And, I'm not at all sure why. Our Governor stays on top of everything, and always puts Texas and Texans first.

The issues I have personally with all this Immigration is the fact all of it is a deliberate shift in major populations throughout the entire world, and it's being done exactly along the same lines as occurred just prior to WWII.

Yes of course too many Immigrants are coming into the country -- and it's not just too many Mexicans. It's too many Immigrants.

The Mexicans, South Americans and Central Americans can't go home because their governments are allowing and likely even participating in the horrific violence and terrorism designs that has forced those people here. We already know the Vatican is the hand in that picture.

Just as disturbing, if no more so, is the fact the American food is now coming from all over the world and the Vatican is in control of commodities now. We are again seeing a pre-WWII event happening -- early stages of a manmade famine at play. Start monitoring your food prices.

Exactly, precisely, who the heck is protecting the American people now? Well, it sure as heck isn't Obama or any of our Democrats. They go from "stupid" to "more stupid". It's as if they live in la-la land or worse, want all this crap to happen.

Fortunately the American people are the type who don't take to garbage like all this mess. My greatest fear? That Obama and his band of idiots and crazies will pull more sneaky b.s. before he is removed from Office, then we will be stuck getting rid of every law that fruitcake put into motion.

If he chooses to keep jacking with the American people, I doubt the Americans will keep quiet.


----------



## hortysir

To post incessantly, on message boards, about immigration issues?

I'd say probably not.


----------



## R.C. Christian

Uh Oh Jose, did you just cut on Indians? Say it ain't so ese.


----------



## TossObama

hortysir said:


> To post incessantly, on message boards, about immigration issues?
> 
> I'd say probably not.



Reading and comprehension are two different things. What I have advocated (that you term "incessant") is that the Immigrants migrate to Vatican City.

I never said Immigration wasn't a serious problem. It is.

It's a serious problem worldwide.


----------



## uscitizen

R.C. Christian said:


> Uh Oh Jose, did you just cut on Indians? Say it ain't so ese.



Antiseminoleism?


----------



## José

uscitizen said:


> R.C. Christian said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uh Oh Jose, did you just cut on Indians? Say it ain't so ese.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Antiseminoleism?
Click to expand...


I'm all for compensating native americans for their territorial losses. 

Let's consider lilolady's 23 k as the rent the US government pays for this giant property called America. Absolutely fair in my book.

*BUT THE FACT THAT THE SAME OLD LADY WHO SPEND DAY AFTER DAY, WEEK AFTER WEEK, ETC... BADMOUTHING MEXICANS WHO WORK IN BACKBREAKING JOBS IS HERSELF A BIGGER LEECH GETTING 23 K FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT JUST FOR HAVING NATIVE AMERICAN HERITAGE.*

*THIS IS IRONIC AS HELL.*


----------



## rdean

We don't need more Republicans.  We have plenty.


----------



## Silver Fox

Yes, and not all of the teens are "too spoiled" to get up off their butts...I have one that has been mowing lawns since he was 11 (he is now 16) and another teen that mucks out horse stalls for her paychecks.  That qualifies for low skilled work and I say you take a teenager you know and help them find a job rather than making generalizations.  It may not be as easy for teens to get a job in this job market but the ones that are willing to work will find some odd job to earn gas money.  The future of this country happens to be the teens...so teach em how to get off their butts !!!!!


----------



## Silver Fox

rdean said:


> We don't need more Republicans.  We have plenty.


we need more independents


----------



## rdean

Silver Fox said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> We don't need more Republicans.  We have plenty.
> 
> 
> 
> we need more independents
Click to expand...


The thing I like about Independents is they support education, many scientists consider themselves "Independent" and I never heard of an Independent that was KKK, Aryan Nation or called themselves "Confederate".


----------



## LilOlLady

*SHOULD ILLEGAL ALIENS RECEIVE TRANSPLANTS?*
*HELL NO*.(As Jose Jalapena would say)  Organ transplants paid for by the federal or state government should be *reserved for American citizens *and not for illegal aliens. *Send the illegal aliens home*, present from the tax payer, and let their country and people pay for their transplants. 

I don&#8217;t want to pay for *transplants, education, healthcare, incarcerations, welfare *for anchor babies or an*ything for those who are in the country illegally.* If their country don&#8217;t want to foot the bill, *send them the hell home*. Just maybe that will *fix our illegal immigration problem*. Make their countries pay and maybe their countries will stop them from immigrating illegally. *If we continue to financially care for their people, why should their even care?*
I thought  the Nov. election was about our  want *smaller government and less government involvement and less taxes*? If so then we should *expect less money *from the government?

---------------------------------------------

*Should illegal aliens receive organ transplants?*Should illegal aliens receive organ transplants?
---------------------------------------------

"In Arizona, *98 low-income patients approved for organ transplants *have been told they are *no longer getting them *because of state budget cuts."
Newsvine - "In Arizona, 98 low-income patients approved for organ transplants have been told they are no longer getting them because of state budget cuts."
------------------------------------------------------------

*Taxpayer Funded Organ Transplants for Illegal Aliens *
(Part Two of an Occasional Series)
By Connie Kaplan, RegainAmerica Staff Writer, February 16, 2009
Part two of RegainAmerica's ongoing Series on "How Your Tax Dollars Are Spent". 
Just how are the federal and state and municipal governments of the United States spending OUR (the taxpayers' ) money?
Meet Ana Puente and Jose Lopez, two young Illegal Aliens residing in the State of California. They were featured in an article from the Los Angeles Times as part of a series entitled Life in the Shadows, although, as we will see, Ms. Puente and Mr. Lopez, although in the US illegally, seem markedly unconcerned either with their illegal status or with flying beneath the radar. Ana and Jose have had FIVE LIVER TRANSPLANTS between them.
All paid for by the taxpayers.

Taxpayer Funded Organ Transplants for Illegal Aliens (Part Two of an Occasional Series) | RegainAmerica


----------



## Ravi

I'd willingly pay for you to have a brain transplant.


----------



## Ernie S.

The only thing taxpayers should fund for illegals is a bus ride to the nearest border and a swift kick in the pants to ensure they make it across.


----------



## Truthmatters

such compassion from the religious right


----------



## editec

*



SHOULD ILLEGAL ALIENS RECEIVE TRANSPLANTS?

Click to expand...

 
Yes yes ten- thousands times yes!

They should receive transplants back to their nations of origin.

*


----------



## Ernie S.

Truthmatters said:


> such compassion from the religious right



What makes you think I'm religious?


----------



## Big Black Dog

Ernie S. said:


> The only thing taxpayers should fund for illegals is a bus ride to the nearest border and a swift kick in the pants to ensure they make it across.



I agree.  Maybe you should run for Congress and help to get a law passed to make this happen.


----------



## Mini 14

Only from other illegal aliens.

Seems fair to me, and compassionate enough for the scallywags!


----------



## Jos

You believe in Aliens?


----------



## Nate

TossObama said:


> Immigration is so extreme all over the world, it has become a threat to Security for everyone. And that seems to be the real intent behind the massive shifts of populations across the globe.
> 
> Some nut had a plan, cut some deals outside the scope of citizens representations, and now the entire world is in a state of flux.
> 
> Here in the USA, the governments of Mexico, and South and Central American countries are controlled by the Vatican and all are pits of violence and terrorism. Their citizens are forced by their own governments to migrate to the USA, and even if they want to go home, they can't. The violence in their home countries is so bad they can't go home.
> 
> They need to move on, and migrate to Vatican City. The Vatican made this mess. The Vatican enjoys the lofty perch that isolates them from virtually all of the problems THEY created, so my thinking is the Vatican rats nest (which happens to be a bunch of stinking nazis), should be the responsible party and host for shifting populations migrating to Vatican City.



Well Toss though I know that most(if not all) Latin American countries are predominately Catholic, I'm curious to what makes you think the Vatican is at fault for the hell hole *some* of these countries have become? Last I checked a large protion of these countries problems is caused by the Cartels... & the ony Saint they seem to worhip is Santa Muerte.


----------



## rdean

LilOlLady said:


> *SHOULD ILLEGAL ALIENS RECEIVE TRANSPLANTS?*
> *HELL NO*.(As Jose Jalapena would say)  Organ transplants paid for by the federal or state government should be *reserved for American citizens *and not for illegal aliens. *Send the illegal aliens home*, present from the tax payer, and let their country and people pay for their transplants.
> 
> I don&#8217;t want to pay for *transplants, education, healthcare, incarcerations, welfare *for anchor babies or an*ything for those who are in the country illegally.* If their country don&#8217;t want to foot the bill, *send them the hell home*. Just maybe that will *fix our illegal immigration problem*. Make their countries pay and maybe their countries will stop them from immigrating illegally. *If we continue to financially care for their people, why should their even care?*
> I thought  the Nov. election was about our  want *smaller government and less government involvement and less taxes*? If so then we should *expect less money *from the government?
> 
> ---------------------------------------------
> 
> *Should illegal aliens receive organ transplants?*Should illegal aliens receive organ transplants?
> ---------------------------------------------
> 
> "In Arizona, *98 low-income patients approved for organ transplants *have been told they are *no longer getting them *because of state budget cuts."
> Newsvine - "In Arizona, 98 low-income patients approved for organ transplants have been told they are no longer getting them because of state budget cuts."
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Taxpayer Funded Organ Transplants for Illegal Aliens *
> (Part Two of an Occasional Series)
> By Connie Kaplan, RegainAmerica Staff Writer, February 16, 2009
> Part two of RegainAmerica's ongoing Series on "How Your Tax Dollars Are Spent".
> Just how are the federal and state and municipal governments of the United States spending OUR (the taxpayers' ) money?
> Meet Ana Puente and Jose Lopez, two young Illegal Aliens residing in the State of California. They were featured in an article from the Los Angeles Times as part of a series entitled Life in the Shadows, although, as we will see, Ms. Puente and Mr. Lopez, although in the US illegally, seem markedly unconcerned either with their illegal status or with flying beneath the radar. Ana and Jose have had FIVE LIVER TRANSPLANTS between them.
> All paid for by the taxpayers.
> 
> Taxpayer Funded Organ Transplants for Illegal Aliens (Part Two of an Occasional Series) | RegainAmerica



Finally, Republicans put their "death panels" into operation.  

Some of the "illegal aliens" Republicans suddenly, out of the blue, denied coverage after they had been told "yes".  They could have been "fundraising" to possibly pay for what Republicans had promised.  Now they have "nothing".  Not even a future.  Do these even look like "illegal aliens".  And, they weren't even "poor".  They were "middle class".  Part of the Republicans continuing "War on the Middle Class".  Get ready America.  This is what you voted for.  Good luck on how that works out.



















 About this women, she is a High School Gym Teacher.  Her students are going to get a first hand look at Republican Policies.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Chicago immigrant youth are Undocumented and Unafraid*
Submitted by Isaac on March 11, 2010 - 4:41am

*
Out of the Shadows and Into the Streets! *

To kick off a national "Coming Out of the Shadows" week, more than one thousand Chicago immigrant youth and allies, crowding behind a banner with the words UNDOCUMENTED AND UNAFRAID, chanted "Without Papers, Without Fear - Immigrants are Marching Here!" 

Chicago immigrant youth are Undocumented and Unafraid | Solidarity

Is this the kind of "fear" Obama was talking about when he said; During a recent press conference, President Obama claimed that since the Dream Act failed to pass, illegal immigrants and their children will find themselves under a "*shadow of fear."*


----------



## LilOlLady

*Is the term "illegal alien" offensive?**
(Maybe, but not illegal)*
By Nicole Underwood - Producer/ KETK News
Thursday, December 30, 2010 - 4:15pm
Update:

"Everyone is innocent until proven guilty"... that's the reason that some people claim that the term "illegal immigrant" or "illegal alien" is offensive.

They are calling for the phrase to be removed from the media's vocabulary.

Supporters of the change say that the term "illegal" spreads unnecessary fear and hate.
They say that using the term *"undocumented worker" or "undocumented immigrant*" would be less offensive.

*Do you agree?*
http://www.ketknbc.com/news/update-is-the-term-illegal-alien-offensive


*il·le·gal* (
adj. 
1. Prohibited by law. 
2. Prohibited by official rules: an illegal pass in football. 
3. Unacceptable to or not performable by a computer: an illegal operation. 
n. 
*An illegal immigrant.*

*Illegal* [&#618;&#712;li&#720;g&#601;l] 
adj 
1. forbidden by law; unlawful; illicit 
2. unauthorized or prohibited by a code of official or accepted rules 
n 
*a person who has entered or attempted to enter a country illegally *
illegally adv 
illegality n


----------



## LilOlLady

Ravi said:


> I'd willingly pay for you to have a brain transplant.



*I doubt if you could spring for a happy meal.*


----------



## Mini 14

LilOlLady said:


> *Is the term "illegal alien" offensive?**
> (Maybe, but not illegal)*
> By Nicole Underwood - Producer/ KETK News
> Thursday, December 30, 2010 - 4:15pm
> Update:
> 
> "Everyone is innocent until proven guilty"... that's the reason that some people claim that the term "illegal immigrant" or "illegal alien" is offensive.
> 
> They are calling for the phrase to be removed from the media's vocabulary.
> 
> Supporters of the change say that the term "illegal" spreads unnecessary fear and hate.
> They say that using the term *"undocumented worker" or "undocumented immigrant*" would be less offensive.
> 
> *Do you agree?*
> Update: Is the term "illegal alien" offensive? | KETK
> 
> 
> *il·le·gal* (
> adj.
> 1. Prohibited by law.
> 2. Prohibited by official rules: an illegal pass in football.
> 3. Unacceptable to or not performable by a computer: an illegal operation.
> n.
> *An illegal immigrant.*
> 
> *Illegal* [&#618;&#712;li&#720;g&#601;l]
> adj
> 1. forbidden by law; unlawful; illicit
> 2. unauthorized or prohibited by a code of official or accepted rules
> n
> *a person who has entered or attempted to enter a country illegally *
> illegally adv
> illegality n



Not to anyone who matters.


----------



## LilOlLady

Ravi said:


> I'd willingly pay for you to have a brain transplant.



What is your problem, Ravi? Americans cannot get *simple routine medical care *and you want *illegal aliens to get transplants paid for by the tax payers?* I think you are the one who needs a brain transplant.
Better yet, Rave *why don't you volunteer to pay for a transplant for an illegal alien*?

*Probably an organ donated by an american.*


----------



## rdean

LilOlLady said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd willingly pay for you to have a brain transplant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is your problem, Ravi? Americans cannot get *simple routine medical care *and you want *illegal aliens to get transplants paid for by the tax payers?* I think you are the one who needs a brain transplant.
> Better yet, Rave *why don't you volunteer to pay for a transplant for an illegal alien*?
> 
> *Probably an organ donated by an american.*
Click to expand...


Not everyone on your list is an illegal.  Does that matter to Republicans?  They could have given fund raisers.  They could have looked for help.  But they were fooled into thinking they already had help.

"In Arizona, 98 low-income patients approved for organ transplants have been told they are no longer getting them because of state budget cuts."


----------



## Bullfighter

LilOlLady said:


> *Chicago immigrant youth are Undocumented and Unafraid*
> Submitted by Isaac on March 11, 2010 - 4:41am
> 
> 
> *Out of the Shadows and Into the Streets! *
> 
> To kick off a national "Coming Out of the Shadows" week, more than one thousand Chicago immigrant youth and allies, crowding behind a banner with the words UNDOCUMENTED AND UNAFRAID, chanted "Without Papers, Without Fear - Immigrants are Marching Here!"
> 
> Chicago immigrant youth are Undocumented and Unafraid | Solidarity
> 
> Is this the kind of "fear" Obama was talking about when he said; During a recent press conference, President Obama claimed that since the Dream Act failed to pass, illegal immigrants and their children will find themselves under a "*shadow of fear."*


 
 I'd like to see just one of these Mexicans try that in 1930's Berlin.

US veterans made it safe for these monkeys to march on the streets of America.


----------



## hortysir

TossObama said:


> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> 
> To post incessantly, on message boards, about immigration issues?
> 
> I'd say probably not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reading and comprehension are two different things. What I have advocated (that you term "incessant") is that the Immigrants migrate to Vatican City.
> 
> I never said Immigration wasn't a serious problem. It is.
> 
> It's a serious problem worldwide.
Click to expand...

Sorry, TO, I was responding to the OP not your post.


----------



## gunnyrogers55

rdean said:


> We don't need more Republicans.  We have plenty.



And just have the lovely democrats that took the house in 2006 done so well for this country since then? other than blame bush on everything..


----------



## Intense

we need all different kinds of workers to fill different jobs, that is a given as the work force ages. The question is do we really need to import so many? My answer is no.


----------



## rdean

gunnyrogers55 said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> We don't need more Republicans.  We have plenty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And just have the lovely democrats that took the house in 2006 done so well for this country since then? other than blame bush on everything..
Click to expand...


Only the house.  The senate was divided 49 to 49.

In fact, considering what Republicans did TO the country for 6 years under Bush, I think the Democrats have done a remarkable job, otherwise we would be rebuilding Iran, totally bankrupt and in a deep depression.  You know it, I know it.  The direction the Republicans were taking this country was plain.

Republicans don't like Obama because he is black and the majority of Republicans are "Confederate".  There is no other explanation for their "vitriol".  He has done nothing close to the fiasco that was Bush.  In fact, considering what the "filibuster" party has done, I'm shocked he has done as much as he has.


----------



## Intense

rdean said:


> gunnyrogers55 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> We don't need more Republicans.  We have plenty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And just have the lovely democrats that took the house in 2006 done so well for this country since then? other than blame bush on everything..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only the house.  The senate was divided 49 to 49.
> 
> In fact, considering what Republicans did TO the country for 6 years under Bush, I think the Democrats have done a remarkable job, otherwise we would be rebuilding Iran, totally bankrupt and in a deep depression.  You know it, I know it.  The direction the Republicans were taking this country was plain.
> 
> Republicans don't like Obama because he is black and the majority of Republicans are "Confederate".  There is no other explanation for their "vitriol".  He has done nothing close to the fiasco that was Bush.  In fact, considering what the "filibuster" party has done, I'm shocked he has done as much as he has.
Click to expand...


I think you need an Exorcism RD.


----------



## Meister

rdean said:


> gunnyrogers55 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> We don't need more Republicans.  We have plenty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And just have the lovely democrats that took the house in 2006 done so well for this country since then? other than blame bush on everything..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only the house.  *The senate was divided 49 to 49*.
> 
> In fact, considering what Republicans did TO the country for 6 years under Bush, I think the Democrats have done a remarkable job, otherwise we would be rebuilding Iran, totally bankrupt and in a deep depression.  You know it, I know it.  The direction the Republicans were taking this country was plain.
> 
> Republicans don't like Obama because he is black and the majority of Republicans are "Confederate".  There is no other explanation for their "vitriol".  He has done nothing close to the fiasco that was Bush.  In fact, considering what the "filibuster" party has done, I'm shocked he has done as much as he has.
Click to expand...

With 2 liberal independent Senators.


----------



## Big Fitz

LilOlLady said:


> *Does U.S. need low-skilled workers? *
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9OoSmpGzfU


Nope.  we have them already.  They're called high school drop outs and students.

We always can use LEGAL immigrants of high wealth and skill.  Low/no skill immigrants are a drain on our resources and a disadvantage to every first world nation


----------



## TossObama

Organ transplants are the most idiotic and downright heinous thing medicine has ever gotten involved in. That money would be better spent in research for cures and genetic manipulations.


----------



## gunnyrogers55

rdean said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd willingly pay for you to have a brain transplant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is your problem, Ravi? Americans cannot get *simple routine medical care *and you want *illegal aliens to get transplants paid for by the tax payers?* I think you are the one who needs a brain transplant.
> Better yet, Rave *why don't you volunteer to pay for a transplant for an illegal alien*?
> 
> *Probably an organ donated by an american.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not everyone on your list is an illegal.  Does that matter to Republicans?  They could have given fund raisers.  They could have looked for help.  But they were fooled into thinking they already had help.
> 
> "In Arizona, 98 low-income patients approved for organ transplants have been told they are no longer getting them because of state budget cuts."
Click to expand...



i have read a few of your posts now and all i got to say is where the hell do you get your knowledge and lies from. Why should we give illegal border hoping assholes anything other than a kick in the ass. Even dropping them near the boarder sucks they just keep coming back in... drop those mexicans as far south as we can to tell them we mean it not to come back anymore.


----------



## WillowTree

LilOlLady said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd willingly pay for you to have a brain transplant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I doubt if you could spring for a happy meal.*
Click to expand...


----------



## hortysir

Truthmatters said:


> such compassion from the religious right


Jan 2, 2011
I agreed with TM


----------



## WillowTree

rdean said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd willingly pay for you to have a brain transplant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is your problem, Ravi? Americans cannot get *simple routine medical care *and you want *illegal aliens to get transplants paid for by the tax payers?* I think you are the one who needs a brain transplant.
> Better yet, Rave *why don't you volunteer to pay for a transplant for an illegal alien*?
> 
> *Probably an organ donated by an american.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not everyone on your list is an illegal.  Does that matter to Republicans?  They could have given fund raisers.  They could have looked for help.  But they were fooled into thinking they already had help.
> 
> "In Arizona, 98 low-income patients approved for organ transplants have been told they are no longer getting them because of state budget cuts."
Click to expand...


that's what happens when states are mandated to provide unfunded services by the government. get used to it. we told ya the death panels were on the way, but did you listen? fuck no you did not./


----------



## Harry Dresden

gunnyrogers55 said:


> *
> i have read a few of your posts now and all i got to say is where the hell do you get your knowledge and lies from.* Why should we give illegal border hoping assholes anything other than a kick in the ass. Even dropping them near the boarder sucks they just keep coming back in... drop those mexicans as far south as we can to tell them we mean it not to come back anymore.



....another one who has only been here a few days and already has you figured out Dean.....Roger meet our resident BIG TENT THROWER....im sure your going to be under it....welcome to the club....you will find that Dean knows things about Republicans/Conservatives that even they dont know.....but hey he knows...he thinks he is an expert....


----------



## rdean

gunnyrogers55 said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is your problem, Ravi? Americans cannot get *simple routine medical care *and you want *illegal aliens to get transplants paid for by the tax payers?* I think you are the one who needs a brain transplant.
> Better yet, Rave *why don't you volunteer to pay for a transplant for an illegal alien*?
> 
> *Probably an organ donated by an american.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not everyone on your list is an illegal.  Does that matter to Republicans?  They could have given fund raisers.  They could have looked for help.  But they were fooled into thinking they already had help.
> 
> "In Arizona, 98 low-income patients approved for organ transplants have been told they are no longer getting them because of state budget cuts."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> i have read a few of your posts now and all i got to say is where the hell do you get your knowledge and lies from. Why should we give illegal border hoping assholes anything other than a kick in the ass. Even dropping them near the boarder sucks they just keep coming back in... drop those mexicans as far south as we can to tell them we mean it not to come back anymore.
Click to expand...


A lie is only a lie if it's not true.  That's why I post links to reputable sources.  Something right wingers on this site very rarely do.  Instead, they call names.


----------



## xotoxi

They should not receive transplants from the transplant list.

However, if they have the cash to pay for the surgery and they have a living donor lined up (i.e. a twin brother willing to donate a kidney), then they should be able to have it...then go home after they have had the surgery.


----------



## Harry Dresden

rdean said:


> A lie is only a lie if it's not true.  That's why I post links to reputable sources.  Something right wingers on this site very rarely do.  Instead, they call names.



yea reputable sources like the Christian far Right....oh and your favorite the Texas Republican State Platform....or just any FAR right moron you can come up with saying something stupid....how is this for a name Dean....your a Dishonest Fuck...is that good?.....


----------



## LilOlLady

Ernie S. said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> such compassion from the religious right
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think I'm religious?
Click to expand...


Being religious means obeying the law of the land put in place by GOD. GOD punished those who disobeyed his law. and ;;;

Romans 13:1-2 "Let every soul be in subjection to the *superior authorities*, for there is *no authority except by God*; the existing authorities *stand placed in their relative positions by God.* 2 Therefore he who *opposes the authority *has taken a stand *against the arrangement of God*; those who have taken a stand against it will *receive judgment *to themselves."


----------



## LilOlLady

rdean said:


> gunnyrogers55 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not everyone on your list is an illegal.  Does that matter to Republicans?  They could have given fund raisers.  They could have looked for help.  But they were fooled into thinking they already had help.
> 
> "In Arizona, 98 low-income patients approved for organ transplants have been told they are no longer getting them because of state budget cuts."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i have read a few of your posts now and all i got to say is where the hell do you get your knowledge and lies from. Why should we give illegal border hoping assholes anything other than a kick in the ass. Even dropping them near the boarder sucks they just keep coming back in... drop those mexicans as far south as we can to tell them we mean it not to come back anymore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A lie is only a lie if it's not true.  That's why I post links to *reputable sources*.  Something right wingers on this site very rarely do.  Instead, they call names.
Click to expand...


We are only posting our opinions and links are only opinions of other men. There is not a man on earth that does not lie. Opinions, polls, charts,etc can only be taken with a grain of salt. Republicans lie as Democrats lie. Fact of life. 
Just because we post a link does not mean it's true, it just means where you got the message.


----------



## Zoom-boing

> Should illegal aliens receive transplants?


 

No, they should be given a one way ticket back to where they came from.


----------



## geauxtohell

TossObama said:


> Organ transplants are the most idiotic and downright heinous thing medicine has ever gotten involved in. That money would be better spent in research for cures and genetic manipulations.



You are an idiot.


----------



## LilOlLady

WillowTree said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is your problem, Ravi? Americans cannot get *simple routine medical care *and you want *illegal aliens to get transplants paid for by the tax payers?* I think you are the one who needs a brain transplant.
> Better yet, Rave *why don't you volunteer to pay for a transplant for an illegal alien*?
> 
> *Probably an organ donated by an american.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not everyone on your list is an illegal.  Does that matter to Republicans?  They could have given fund raisers.  They could have looked for help.  But they were fooled into thinking they already had help.
> 
> "In Arizona, 98 low-income patients approved for organ transplants have been told they are no longer getting them because of state budget cuts."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> that's what happens when states are mandated to provide unfunded services by the government. get used to it. we told ya the *death panels were on the way*, but did you listen? fuck no you did not./
Click to expand...


Death panels on the way? Where have you been sonny boy? We have always had death panels. T*hey were called* Dr. Kavorkian, Afghanistan and Iraq and before that Vietnam, absent of healthcare has been killing people for years and it do not discriminate between the elderly and children. Don't forget the child molestor who is systematically killing our children. End of life healthcare is not death panels. It let people die with dignity.But healthcare is never withheld in Hospice.
Private healthcare system has always been a death panel when they with hold medical care. You get what you pay for under the private healthcare system. IF you cannot pay for the service, private HC so not give it to you and you could die.  OBAMACARE save live, not take lives.


----------



## TheLonelySquire

Thry should definitely receive transplants. They should be transplanted from our country to theirs. Immediately.


----------



## LilOlLady

Private Healthcare Industry;

A supposed committee responsible for *allocating healthcare *and *promoting euthanasia to reduce costs*


----------



## AmericanFirst

Truthmatters said:


> such compassion from the religious right


They do not deserve them. Send them back to mexico and they can pay for them.


----------



## AmericanFirst

LilOlLady said:


> *DREAM Act students vow revolution after act fails in the Senate "White People, Watch Out!"*
> by safari
> *
> &#8220;This is war!&#8221;* claims Phoenix student Aldemar Cruz. &#8220;Republicans may
> have stopped the DREAM Act, but they won&#8217;t prevent* La Reconquista *from
> happening. &#8220;White people, watch out!&#8221;
> 
> Olivia Perez, an undocumented student who claims she was forced to
> fill out false paperwork in order to stay in the United States, says,
> &#8220;Latinos need to fight back. We need to march. We need to scream. If
> necessary, *we need to riot.* We need to do *everything Blacks did *to get their civil rights!&#8221;
> 
> DREAM Act students vow revolution after act fails in the Senate "White People, Watch Out!" - Page 12
> 
> 
> 
> *IF it's war you want, it's war you will get*. Bring it on you liitle *#%$@ #@$% $$#% #q$#S*.
> 
> *"Give them and inch and they want a mile."*


Bring it on wetbacks. Laraza dickheads are not even credible, they are nothing but thugs.


----------



## LilOlLady

*OPERATION E-VERIFY.*

If we only enforced our immigration law that makes it illegal for businesses to hire illegal aliens it would solve the illegal immigration problem. It would virtually stop illegal immigration. The one operation would stop human smuggling, stop illegal crossing to work, illegals would self deport because they could not work. It would cut down on illegal crimes committed.  It would stop deaths due to crossing the Rio Grande, the American River and the deserts and deaths due to being crammed into vehicles. Killed by bandits and human smugglers. Stop the need for costly amnesty and Dream Act and free ICE agents, border patrol agents and Sheriff Joe to concentrate on stopping the flow of drug into the country. 

One simple inexpensive operation. E-verify. No rounding them up, raiding businesses, chasing them through the desert, raiding flop housed, no more identity thief, false and stolen documents. A host of problem involving illegal immigration could be solved with Operation E-Verity.


----------



## LilOlLady

*NO SUCH THING AS CHEAP LABOR.*


Illegal alien home care providers and those taking care of your children, cleaning your homes are all stealing from their clients.

Illegal aliens who cut our lawns are robbing your homes.

Illegal aliens are stealing from stores they work for. Stealing the lives of many Americans.

Illegal aliens are stealing education, healthcare, welfare and many other services.

Illegal aliens are committing all sort of crimes that are affecting every American. 

Illegal aliens are stealing the value of your homes when they move into a neighbor, bringing the graffiti, gangs and the crime, and the value of your homes depreciate. 

Illegal immigration affects every American man, women and child. Even the homeless has to compete with illegal aliens homeless for food and shelter. Every aspect of illegal immigration is costly to every American.

Your average hard working illegal alien family has at least one family member who is involved in al least one criminal activity. Dealing drugs, stealing from employers, etc.

My daughter hired an illegal aliens to repair the roof of her home and when she was not at home, he stole the shingles.

Out of the trunk of cars you can purchase almost any item you want and if they dont have what you want they will get it for you.


----------



## Wolfmoon

To add to that their Anchor Babies are getting in positions of power in businesses and stealing Identities and social security numbers and credit card numbers.  They help pull off the INSIDE JOBS!  Plus, provide stolen identities to illegal aliens for a profit.

$200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens. 
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html


"The Pew Hispanic Center study from February 2009 found that even though Hispanics make up 13 percent of the adult population, they accounted for 40 percent of sentenced federal offenders in 2007."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/29/border-states-dealing-illegal-immigrant-crime-data-suggests/


----------



## uscitizen

All illegals are thieves?  Rubbish.
Most of them are just like europeans that came to America just looking for a better life.


----------



## Wolfmoon

The minute the illegal aliens cross the border illegally they're criminals.  No ifs and or buts about it! They have no respect for American laws. They don't come to assimilate they come to take over.

Two-thirds of illegal aliens lack a high school degree, the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments, into their legal status or heavy use of most social services. 
http://www.gao.gov/archive/1998/he98030.pdf

A report shows 75% of illegal aliens have less than a 6th grade education. Over 71% have children. 30% admit of using forged social security cards, and half of them have done so, for more than 5 years.
http://www.thesocialcontract.com/pdf/three-one/sandiego.pdf


A study of 55,322 illegal aliens, found: They were arrested a total of 459,614 times, averaging about 8 arrests per illegal alien. They were arrested for a total of about 700,000 criminal offenses, averaging about 13 offenses per illegal alien. 12 % were arrested for violent offenses such as murder, robbery, assault, and sex-related crimes. 80% of all arrests occurred in three states--California, Texas, and Arizona. http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05646r.html

It cost $5.8 billion for years 2001 - 2004 to incarcerate criminal aliens this was a 15 % increase, most inmates were from Mexico. The percentage of all federal prisoners who are criminal aliens has remained the same over the last 3 years&#8212;about 27 percent.
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05337r.pdf


----------



## Wolfmoon

The illegal aliens are killing more Americans on American soil, than are being killed in both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars put together!

Every day 12 Americans are murdered by an illegal alien. Another 13 Americans are killed by uninsured drunk illegal aliens and 8 American Children are victims of a sex crime committed by an illegal alien each and every day! 
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/ia05_king/col_20060505_bite.html

Today, criminal aliens account for over 29 percent of prisoners in Federal Bureau of Prisons facilities and a higher share of all federal prison inmates. These prisoners represent the fastest growing segment of the federal prison population. Incarceration of criminal aliens cost an estimated $624 million to state prisons (1999) and $891 million to federal prisons (2002), according to the most recent available figure from the Bureau of Justice Statistics. 
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters0b9c


----------



## uscitizen

Ahh feel the fear and hatred...


----------



## uscitizen

I agree we need to tighten border controls deport illegals and make some laws with teeth in them for Americans that hire illegals and fully enforce them.
No jobs and we would have very few illegals coming in.
That is the first step.


----------



## Wolfmoon

"For most lawmakers, DWI stands for &#8220;driving while intoxicated.&#8221; For Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), DWI stands for &#8220;driving while illegal. He also said, that illegal immigrants were intentionally causing car accidents along state freeways." 
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2010/04/20/2010-04-20_john_mccain_illegal_immigrants_are_intentionally_causing_car_accidents.html

"The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States". 
http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html

30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html


----------



## Wolfmoon

I think we should put a $REWARD$ on the heads of illegal aliens and the people who harbor them.


----------



## Wolfmoon

I think we should REVOKE Anchor Babies citizenship!  And END BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP in every state in America, ASAP!


----------



## uscitizen

How about anchor wenches?
The ugly fat ones seem to be marrying hispanics around here.

Should a person have to prove citizenship to get married here?


----------



## kwc57

I was bitten by a black dog, therefore all black dogs bite.


----------



## uscitizen

kwc57 said:


> I was bitten by a black dog, therefore all black dogs bite.



Especially big black dogs 

JK bbd.

The limited mentality of some though amazes me.


----------



## Truthmatters

funny how they think blaming the weakest people will solve this mess.

Blame the fuckerss who are exploiting these people for one fucking second would you?

You know the very assholes who USE these people to FUCK you.


----------



## Wolfmoon

The Anchor Babies think Welfare is their retirement system. The Anchor Babies were raised on welfare they don't know any other way of life. Since 50% of them are dropping out of high school before graduating. What else can they do but lie down and pop out kids for the American taxpayer to pay for? They get free housing, free food stamps, free medical. Why work???

In 2007, legal and illegal aliens cost the federal government more than $346 BILLION dollars and the U.S. taxpayers paid more than $ 9,000.00 for each immigrant in the country!
http://www.esrresearch.com/Rubensteinreport.pdf


----------



## uscitizen

Truthmatters said:


> funny how they think blaming the weakest people will solve this mess.
> 
> Blame the fuckerss who are exploiting these people for one fucking second would you?
> 
> You know the very assholes who USE these people to FUCK you.



Yep I know people who hire illegals.  They try to get me to as well.  I can find enough US citizens who want work, I do have to pay a bit more but worth it.
And I have told a few that although I will not squeal on them, if questioned I will not lie to cover their cheap asses.
And I give them hell when they complain about China as well.  Most of them are Tea Baggers.

And yeah I know that by not squealing on them I am part of the problem.  sigh..  It is a mess.

I however realize that I am part of the problem unlike most.
My only consolation is that I do not contribute to the problem.


----------



## Wolfmoon

It's the politicians who are keeping the borders open and allowing the illegal aliens to invade the U.S.  Then the illegal aliens multiply and jump on welfare with their Anchor Babies and cost Billions of dollars to the U.S. taxpayers.  They steal everything from education funds to free housing, free food stamps, free medicare some of them even get free after school babysitting services.  While the poor American smucks work sometimes 2 jobs to support their families.

An illegal alien parent receives welfare benefits on behalf of his or her U.S. citizen child. Regardless of the parents immigration status may receive welfare and other benefits. When such a child receives assistance, the aid also helps support the child&#8217;s family. SOURCE: Illegal Aliens Extent of Welfare Benefits, Page 1. 
http://www.gao.gov/archive/1998/he98030.pdf


----------



## Wolfmoon

The illegal aliens should be transplanted from America to their countries of origin.  Now, I could go for that.  

Maybe, if we promise them a free transplant we could trick them and their families to come forward and then we could transplant all of them back to where they came from.


----------



## Wolfmoon

Shyte, I thought they were already at war with us.

Every day 12 Americans are murdered by an illegal alien. Another 13 Americans are killed by uninsured drunk illegal aliens and 8 American Children are victims of a sex crime committed by an illegal alien each and every day! 
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/ia05_king/col_20060505_bite.html

The legal and illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the United States. 
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html


"The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States". 
http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html


----------



## WorldWatcher

LilOlLady said:


> *DREAM Act students vow revolution after act fails in the Senate "White People, Watch Out!"*
> by safari
> *
> &#8220;This is war!&#8221;* claims Phoenix student Aldemar Cruz. &#8220;Republicans may
> have stopped the DREAM Act, but they won&#8217;t prevent* La Reconquista *from
> happening. &#8220;White people, watch out!&#8221;
> 
> Olivia Perez, an undocumented student who claims she was forced to
> fill out false paperwork in order to stay in the United States, says,
> &#8220;Latinos need to fight back. We need to march. We need to scream. If
> necessary, *we need to riot.* We need to do *everything Blacks did *to get their civil rights!&#8221;
> 
> DREAM Act students vow revolution after act fails in the Senate "White People, Watch Out!" - Page 12
> 
> 
> 
> *IF it's war you want, it's war you will get*. Bring it on you liitle *#%$@ #@$% $$#% #q$#S*.
> 
> *"Give them and inch and they want a mile."*




I may have missed something along the line in the last few years.  Since when did it become a civil right to be granted citizenship in a country you have illegal broken into?



>>>>


----------



## LilOlLady

*Buoys strung on border canal to prevent drownings* 
Elliot Spagat, Associated Press &#8211; 1 hr 2 mins ago

CALEXICO, Calif. &#8211; *A government agency *on the front lines of the immigration debate has begun installing *lifesaving buoys *in a fast-moving canal along the U.S.-Mexico border where migrants drown each year as they *sneak into the country illegally.*

The debate over the lifelines has long presented authorities with a moral dilemma: *Is it acceptable to do nothing when so many immigrants are dying in the water*? Or do lifesaving devices lull immigrants into a *false sense of security *that they can conquer the channel while giving them *extra motivation to enter the country illegally?*
Buoys strung on border canal to prevent drownings - Yahoo! News

*WHAT THE HELL?:*


----------



## The Infidel

Im surprised we dont just get them a ferry or just leave canoes for them.... 

Me myself... I say line the shores with landmines, but thats just me


----------



## mudwhistle

Homeland security is mostly concerned with the security of everyone who enters this country one way or another but Homeland Security doesn't give a flying-f about the folks that live here.


----------



## LilOlLady

How do you say  *"Warning: Dangerous Water." *in Spanish? That's the problem. They cannot read English.

Quote; 
But the Imperial Irrigation District reversed course in August and has been bolting 105 lines across the 82-mile desert canal at a cost of *$1.1 million*

WHAT? ME? SPEECHLESS.


----------



## The Infidel

LilOlLady said:


> How do you say  *"Warning: Dangerous Water." *in Spanish? That's the problem. They cannot read English.



I vote to put one up the reads "come on in... the water is nice" 


"vamos pulg .. el agua es agradable"


----------



## Tank

Because of the unintelligent and violent ways of the Hispanic people these borders must be guarded. 

What is it that the white people of America created that the Hispanic people can't at least copy in their own countrys?


----------



## José

Tank said:


> Because of the unintelligent and violent ways of the Hispanic people these borders must be guarded.
> 
> What is it that the white people of America created that the Hispanic people can't at least copy in their own countrys?



Hispanic is too broad a term that includes millions of white Mexicans, Argentines, Brazilians and Uruguayans, Tank.

The words mestizo, mulatto, half-breed, brown, etc... would convey the message you're trying to get across much better.


----------



## Tank

You got the message


----------



## LilOlLady

José;3163494 said:
			
		

> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because of the unintelligent and violent ways of the Hispanic people these borders must be guarded.
> 
> What is it that the white people of America created that the Hispanic people can't at least copy in their own countrys?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hispanic is too broad a term that includes millions of white Mexicans, Argentines, Brazilians and Uruguayans, Tank.
> 
> The words mestizo, mulatto, half-breed, brown, etc... would convey the message you're trying to get across much better.
Click to expand...


Jose, Does Mexican narrow it down for you?
If you cannot swim, don't go swimming.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *LilOlLady*
> Jose, Does Mexican narrow it down for you?



You can continue to pretend I was not replying to Tank's post, lilolady... but what's the point in doing so?

Tank believes these two mexican girls






due to their white heritage have much more right to share the american dream (a nation founded by people of *THEIR RACE*) than this american citizen:






and this american citizen:






and this american citizen:






Tank would gladly roll out the red carpet to those two white mexican girls while buying your entire tribe a one way ticket to Bolivia    

And quite frankly... a substantial fraction of the american people would do the same...


----------



## José

in a heartbeat...


----------



## Tank

I just see what a shithole Mexicans turn places into and I want to stop it.

Shit, even Mexicans don't want to live in Mexico.


----------



## Immanuel

This is going to get me in big trouble but I must be one of the few that think this is a good idea.  Illegal aliens or not they do not deserve to die simply for trying to cross the border.  

Now, what I want to know is who would be stupid enough to try to swim across that canal?  I do not recall having seen that one but I have seen the one in Northern California and I do remember all the TV commercials that were broadcast regularly stating that people enter those canals and do not come out alive because you cannot climb out due to the slick cement on the sides.  Surely that message can be made available to the Mexican people as well.

Immie


----------



## Tank

Immanuel said:


> Now, what I want to know is who would be stupid enough to try to swim across that canal?


----------



## José

Tank said:


> I just see what a shithole Mexicans turn places into and I want to stop it.
> 
> Shit, even Mexicans don't want to live in Mexico.



Tank is obviously referring to *THESE MEXICANS*:






Not *THIS ONE*:


----------



## José

Holy shit!!

I'm about 2 or 3 posts away from becoming Tank's official spokesperson!!


----------



## Speeddemon22

LilOlLady said:


> *Buoys strung on border canal to prevent drownings*
> Elliot Spagat, Associated Press  1 hr 2 mins ago
> 
> CALEXICO, Calif.  *A government agency *on the front lines of the immigration debate has begun installing *lifesaving buoys *in a fast-moving canal along the U.S.-Mexico border where migrants drown each year as they *sneak into the country illegally.*
> 
> The debate over the lifelines has long presented authorities with a moral dilemma: *Is it acceptable to do nothing when so many immigrants are dying in the water*? Or do lifesaving devices lull immigrants into a *false sense of security *that they can conquer the channel while giving them *extra motivation to enter the country illegally?*
> Buoys strung on border canal to prevent drownings - Yahoo! News
> 
> *WHAT THE HELL?:*



Personally, LilOlLady, I don't think the buoys will trick any of them into thinking it's safer to cross there.  And if we can save their lives, we should.  I know I'm an ass with a foul mouth who does nothing but cuss about our illegal immigration woes, but I do believe in saving their lives whenever, and wherever possible.  They are still human beings and they die far too often en route to cities in the U.S.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Speeddemon22*
> Personally, LilOlLady, I don't think the buoys will trick any of them into thinking it's safer to cross there. And if we can save their lives, we should. I know I'm an ass with a foul mouth who does nothing but cuss about our illegal immigration woes, but I do believe in saving their lives whenever, and wherever possible. They are still human beings and they die far too often en route to cities in the U.S.



The key to understand so many people wishing death on illegal immigrants is the growing frustration caused by the inaction of the US government, demon.

It goes more or less like this:

5 years of failure to control the border and effectuate mass deportations:

*Average american citizen: "We should cut diplomatic ties with Mexico."*

10 years of failure etc, etc...:

*Average american citizen: "We should jail all illegals and throw away the key."*

15 years etc, etc...:

*Av. am. cit.: "We should shoot illegals on sight."*

20 years etc, etc...:

*"We should declare war on Mexico."*

30 years of failure to etc, etc...:

*"We should nuke Mexico and the rest of Latin America for good measure."*

etc, etc, etc...


----------



## Tank

That canal is saving alot of Americans from Hispanic violence


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Tank*
> That canal is saving alot of Americans from Hispanic violence



Says the morally depraved monkey who cannot separate the minority of hardcore criminals from the vast majority of illegals.

Perfect example of what I just said.

The american people gets extremely frustrated with the giant dereliction of duty on the part of the US government and some of them (not all) take out their frustrations on illegal immigrants.


----------



## The Infidel

Speeddemon22 said:


> Personally, LilOlLady, I don't think the buoys will trick any of them into thinking it's safer to cross there.  And if we can save their lives, we should.  I know I'm an ass with a foul mouth who does nothing but cuss about our illegal immigration woes, but I do believe in saving their lives whenever, and wherever possible.  They are still human beings and they die far too often en route to cities in the U.S.




Damn it... why you got to go and make me feel like an animal?






Yeah, its a terrible thing for someone to drown, but when do you let personal reponsiblity rule the day?

I mean... if there is traffic roaring by me, Im not going to walk into it. Give me a bridge and I will cross it there... Should the nanny state have to tell me not to cross there?


----------



## Tank

It is very easy to see the overwelming amount of crime the Hispanic people commit compared to other races of people.

The shithole countrys that Hispanics created and risk their lives to leave, is what they will create wherever they go.


----------



## Ernie S.

I've got 2 ideas on this. Please vote for one or the other
1. Alligators.
2, anchor the buoy lines in the center of the canal and tie off the other end to anchor points on the Mexican side. If they find that they can't get up the bank of the Northern side, the can cross back to the Mexican side and use the buoy line to climb out there.


----------



## The Infidel

Ernie S. said:


> I've got 2 ideas on this. Please vote for one or the other
> 1. Alligators.
> *2, anchor the buoy lines in the center of the canal and tie off the other end to anchor points on the Mexican side. If they find that they can't get up the bank of the Northern side, the can cross back to the Mexican side and use the buoy line to climb out there.*


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Tank*
> It is very easy to see the overwelming amount of crime the Hispanic people commit compared to other races of people.



It doesn't change the fact that hardcore criminals constitute a minority among illegal immigrants (5%?, 10%?, 15%?, 30%?... pick your favorite numbers, they'll still be the minority except in the mind of extreme delusional racists).

The mere fact that tank, Infidel and associated scoundrels are on a message board wishing death on illegals indiscriminately is a living testament and a sad consequence of more than 3 decades of dereliction of duty on the part of the US government.

Had the US government been doing its job for the last 30 years they wouldn't even be aware of the presence of a small number of illegal immigrants in the US, let alone, wishing them death.


----------



## Tank

They are drowning because of the anchor babies.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Ernie S.*
> I've got 2 ideas on this. Please vote for one or the other
> 1. Alligators.
> 2, anchor the buoy lines in the center of the canal and tie off the other end to anchor points on the Mexican side. If they find that they can't get up the bank of the Northern side, the can cross back to the Mexican side and use the buoy line to climb out there.



How about a third option, anglo?

Bend over and spread your buttcheeks wide open because now it's your turn to take it up the ass.


----------



## uscitizen

That is insanely sicko to string boys in a canal.


----------



## Speeddemon22

Ernie S. said:


> I've got 2 ideas on this. Please vote for one or the other
> 1. Alligators.
> 2, anchor the buoy lines in the center of the canal and tie off the other end to anchor points on the Mexican side. If they find that they can't get up the bank of the Northern side, the can cross back to the Mexican side and use the buoy line to climb out there.




The idea of anchoring the buoys with lines leading back to the Mexican side of the waterway was ruled out...

Some wanted the lines placed at 45-degree angles and pointed downstream toward Mexico. That way, anyone who grabbed a line would be pushed by the currents away from the U.S. and back to Mexico. 

The angled buoy plan was eventually scrapped in a victory for John Hunter, a suburban San Diego physicist who has been the leading advocate for the buoys. 

Hunter, whose brother Duncan pushed for tougher immigration enforcement as a U.S. congressman, argued that the angled lines would only be more deadly for migrants who are determined to make it across. The lines are being placed straight across.


----------



## Tank

José;3164055 said:
			
		

> Bend over and spread your buttcheeks wide open because now it's your turn to take it up the ass.


Does that mean you already have?


----------



## José

Tank said:


> José;3164055 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bend over and spread your buttcheeks wide open because now it's your turn to take it up the ass.
> 
> 
> 
> Does that mean you already have?
Click to expand...


LOL

Not me, Mexicans have... not once but twice... 

Tejas, 1836

Tejas, 1846


----------



## Ernie S.

Tank said:


> They are drowning because of the anchor babies.



Very nice!


----------



## Ernie S.

José;3164055 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *Ernie S.*
> I've got 2 ideas on this. Please vote for one or the other
> 1. Alligators.
> 2, anchor the buoy lines in the center of the canal and tie off the other end to anchor points on the Mexican side. If they find that they can't get up the bank of the Northern side, the can cross back to the Mexican side and use the buoy line to climb out there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about a third option, anglo?
> 
> Bend over and spread your buttcheeks wide open because now it's your turn to take it up the ass.
Click to expand...


Bring it on beaner. Tell you what: When you get to the house, just walk right in.


----------



## Ernie S.

uscitizen said:


> That is insanely sicko to string boys in a canal.



I didn't say string them up..... though.....


----------



## uscitizen

I hope the boys at least got lifeguard training.


----------



## LilOlLady

José;3163700 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *LilOlLady*
> Jose, Does Mexican narrow it down for you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can continue to pretend I was not replying to Tank's post, lilolady... but what's the point in doing so?
> 
> Tank believes these two mexican girls
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> due to their white heritage have much more right to share the american dream (a nation founded by people of *THEIR RACE*) than this american citizen:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and this american citizen:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and this american citizen:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank would gladly roll out the red carpet to those two white mexican girls while buying your entire tribe a one way ticket to Bolivia
> 
> And quite frankly... a substantial fraction of the american people would do the same...
Click to expand...




Jose, your citizenship is not determined by your race. It is what country you are born in. White and black people born south of the border are not american citizens because of their race.
*Afro-American do not have a claim on Africa*?????


----------



## LilOlLady

FOR STORY FRONTERA-CANAL - FILE - In this *Dec. 30, 2002 *file photo, the All-American Canal runs along the United States border with Mexico near Calexico, Calif. When crews finish lining the All-American Canal with concrete, the waterway will be *deeper, faster and more dangerous for migrants *crossing the border illegally from Mexico. (AP Photo/Tim Tadder, File) .
The http://www.winonadailynews.com/news/nat ... 5167c.html


----------



## Terral

Hi Lil:



LilOlLady said:


> *SHOULD ILLEGAL ALIENS RECEIVE TRANSPLANTS?*


*
*
Obama's cheap illegal alien labor pool is not even supposed to be here like Barry should be living in Kenya or Indonesia ...

GL,

Terral


----------



## Terral

Hi Lil:



LilOlLady said:


> The debate over the lifelines has long presented authorities with a moral dilemma: *Is it acceptable to do nothing when so many immigrants are dying in the water*?



Here is the deal: Everyone hiring, aiding, abetting, harboring or helping illegal aliens in any way is also responsible for the 10,000 Americans they kill every year.

GL,

Terral


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *LilOlLady*
> Jose, your citizenship is not determined by your race. It is what country you are born in. White and black people born south of the border are not american citizens because of their race.
> Afro-American do not have a claim on Africa?????



In America, citizenship is not determined by race, you're right... but in Israel it is... Any american jew has the right to settle in Israel at any time.

Do you remember when Haiti was struck by a devastating earthquake last year? The president of Senegal offered plots of land to the haitian population since they all have african ancestry.

Why is it that American Jews have the right to immigrate to a jewish nation and black Haitians are offered sanctuary in Africa while white Mexicans, Colombians, Venezuelans are forced to live among mestizos, mulattos and all kinds of mixed race peoples?

I believe America or some European country should give these two girls the opportunity to leave Mexico and get automatic citizenship in a white majority country if they so choose:


----------



## WillowTree

Tank said:


> You got the message


----------



## Madmoney

I find it funny that only in message boards we have such brave comments from such brave people  knowing full well that most of you probably live in your parent's basement.


----------



## Madmoney

I would not fear the militant Mexican than I would the racist redneck or the black power militant.  Words are just words like most people who come to message boards like this to rant about how much their life sucks and to blame it on the Mexican.  I respond to LilOlLady because you seem to be more mature than most people on these boards.  A hate crime is a hate crime no matter who commits it or who receives it.  And the law is everywhere.  The Los Angeles riots could have been put down in a day if they would have allowed the national guard in but they did not.  There would have been too many casualties and political repercussions for the politicians in Los Angeles.  Nobody gets away with anything in this country, whether you be black or white, so do not worry so much about trash talkers.  That is all they are, LilOlLady.


----------



## editec

*



DREAM Act students vow revolution after act fails in the Senate "White People, Watch Out!"

Click to expand...

 
And this frightens you, does it?



*


----------



## editec

Meanwhile an American businessman who takes thye same damned flight from Chicago to Pittsburg every week has to take off his shoes and be exposed to the equivalent of about 50 dental ex-rays just to get on the damned plane 

Homeland _SECURITY?_

Oh my god, what an insane nation this has become.


----------



## Bullfighter

Madmoney said:


> I would not fear the militant Mexican than I would the racist redneck or the black power militant. Words are just words like most people who come to message boards like this to rant about how much their life sucks and to blame it on the Mexican. I respond to LilOlLady because you seem to be more mature than most people on these boards. A hate crime is a hate crime no matter who commits it or who receives it. And the law is everywhere. The Los Angeles riots could have been put down in a day if they would have allowed the national guard in but they did not. There would have been too many casualties and political repercussions for the politicians in Los Angeles. Nobody gets away with anything in this country, whether you be black or white, so do not worry so much about trash talkers. That is all they are, LilOlLady.


 
The National Guard were called in and the police were doing exactly what they are paid to do: Protecting RICH neighborhoods at the expense of American lives. It wasn't until the US Army showed up that control was restored. 

The Mexican use this to frighten American about what will happen in America if LA RAZA's demands are not met!


----------



## mudwhistle

José;3163700 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *LilOlLady*
> Jose, Does Mexican narrow it down for you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can continue to pretend I was not replying to Tank's post, lilolady... but what's the point in doing so?
> 
> Tank believes these two mexican girls
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> due to their white heritage have much more right to share the american dream (a nation founded by people of *THEIR RACE*) than this american citizen:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and this american citizen:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and this american citizen:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank would gladly roll out the red carpet to those two white mexican girls while buying your entire tribe a one way ticket to Bolivia
> 
> And quite frankly... a substantial fraction of the american people would do the same...
Click to expand...


I would be tempted to let them in not because they're white but because they're hot. It doesn't matter what color they are. Btw, how do you know those girls are Mexican? They look Spanish to me. My understanding was that most Mexicans are a mix of Aztec and Spanish. This results in brown skin. However as in many countries there is a mix of different races in Mexico as well.


----------



## uptownlivin90

westwall said:


> They didn't do to well during the Rodney King riots they will do worse in this type of riot.  The only bad part is a lot of good folks will get hurt by accident.



The Rodnet King riots where Mexican riots?


----------



## uptownlivin90

SeaShadow said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *DREAM Act students vow revolution after act fails in the Senate "White People, Watch Out!"*
> by safari
> *
> This is war!* claims Phoenix student Aldemar Cruz. Republicans may
> have stopped the DREAM Act, but they wont prevent* La Reconquista *from
> happening. White people, watch out!
> 
> Olivia Perez, an undocumented student who claims she was forced to
> fill out false paperwork in order to stay in the United States, says,
> Latinos need to fight back. We need to march. We need to scream. If
> necessary, *we need to riot.* We need to do *everything Blacks did *to get their civil rights!
> 
> DREAM Act students vow revolution after act fails in the Senate "White People, Watch Out!" - Page 12
> 
> 
> 
> *IF it's war you want, it's war you will get*. Bring it on you liitle *#%$@ #@$% $$#% #q$#S*.
> 
> *"Give them and inch and they want a mile."*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I may have missed something along the line in the last few years.  Since when did it become a civil right to be granted citizenship in a country you have illegal broken into?
> 
> 
> 
> >>>>
Click to expand...


Since America stopped giving a fuck about who ran accross our open borders and what they were bringing into this country.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *mudwhistle*
> I would be tempted to let them in not because they're white but because they're hot. It doesn't matter what color they are. Btw, how do you know those girls are Mexican?



LOL... horndog to horndog... I hear ya, whistle!! 



> Originally posted by *mudwhistle*
> Btw, how do you know those girls are Mexican? They look Spanish to me. My understanding was that most Mexicans are a mix of Aztec and Spanish. This results in brown skin. However as in many countries there is a mix of different races in Mexico as well.



Your impression is the result of the image of Mexico created by the media, whistle.

Less than 10% of South Africa's population is white but you don't see many people having a hard time believing there are lots of white South Africans.

15% of Mexico is white and here you are wondering if those girls are really Mexicans.


----------



## LilOlLady

*HOW MANY AMERICANS HAVE TO DIE *

before our government get the message that we have been invaded and occupied by illegal aliens and they are killing more Americans than the Taliban and Al Qaeda. They continue to cross the border, putting themselves in danger and border patrol agents. The Taliban and Al Qaeda are not flooding across the border and there are not 20 million of then in this country cost lives and money.

The solution is not Comprehensive Immigration Reform that legalize 20 million and is an invitation for more to come. They come because we are doing nothing to stop businesses from hiring them. How hard is it to hold businesses accountable?  If they cannot work they will leave and they will not come and those remaining here and continue to come is not coming to work. Those are obviously criminals and they should be rounded up and deported or imprisoned. Illegal aliens here that cannot prove they are working should be deported.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Mexico says U.S. border agent killed teenage boy* 
(2011-01-05) 
(Reuters) - 
By Alonso Castillo

NOGALES, Mexico, Jan 5 - A U.S. Border Patrol agent was involved in a shooting on the Arizona border with Mexico on Wednesday that resulted in the death of a 17-year-old boy trying to illegally scale the border fence, Mexican police said.

Frustrated by tighter security on the U.S.-Mexico border, illegal immigrants and drug traffickers regularly pelt U.S. agents with rocks, take shots and even throw gasoline bombs
http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/w...ico.says.U.S..border.agent.killed.teenage.boy

*A rock is a dangerous projectile and the agent has the right to protect himself or others. Things like this will continue happen until our government do something more drastic to stop illegal crossing.* 
*We are the blame for all the deaths. Illegal aliens and border patrol agents.*


----------



## Tank

What a great way to stop illegal immigration, this should be standard procedure for all Border agents.


----------



## Mini 14

Sounds like he made a VERY good shot!

Kudos to the Agent, and thanks!


----------



## Ernie S.

Well done, Agent!


----------



## LilOlLady

There have been* 111 Border Patrol agents killed over the years*, Mr. Bonner said. &#8220;For such a small force to have lost so many agents just punctuates the danger that the men and women face every time they put on their uniform,&#8221; he said. &#8220;*Even with all their training, sometimes evil gets the upper hand.&#8221;*

&#8220;That it&#8217;s dangerous, there&#8217;s no doubt, but I don&#8217;t want to overstate it,&#8221; Sheriff Estrada said. &#8220;It&#8217;s not like we&#8217;re seeing this happen every day. The border is a lot more secure, but it&#8217;s not sealed and *never will be.&#8221; *

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/16/us/16border.html


----------



## Two Thumbs

Who gives a crap what mexico has to say/


----------



## WillowTree

*Ramses Barron was found dead outside a hospital in Nogales, Sonora, in the early hours on Wednesday with a wound from a bullet fired by a U.S. Border Patrol agent, Sonora state police said citing witnesses. Three men left Barron's body at the hospital, hospital workers told police.*


does that make sense to anyone. read the article.. it's written as if their were witness to his being shot while scaling the fence, yet he's found dead OUTSIDE a hospital?  I bet Mexico is lying through it teeth.


----------



## LilOlLady

*14th AMENDMENT DON&#8217;T APPLY TO CHILDREN OF ILLEGAL ALIENS.*
14th amendment do not need to be repealed. It only need to be *correctly interpreted *and *correctly applied*. It does not apply to children of illegal aliens because the children, as the parents, are not [U*]&#8220;subject to the jurisdicti*[/U]on&#8221; of this country and owe their &#8220;*allegiance*&#8221; to Mexico, etc. They, as their parents, are citizens of Mexico, etc.

The 14th Amendment was written especially for children of ex-slaves whose were &#8220;subject to the jurisdiction&#8221; of this country and were brought here against their will and contributed hundreds of years of free labor and *earned the legal right to citizenship*. Illegal aliens as their children did nothing to earn the right to citizenship. They entered this country as citizens of Mexico, etc and owe their &#8220;allegiance&#8221; to Mexico, etc as their children. 

It is not to late to fix the hundred year mistake that has been made. Automatic Birthright Citizenship cause too many problems for the illegal alien family unit and the *Founding Fathers did not mean for it to cause problems but to eliminate problems*. The black children were citizens as were they parents. Some of the illegal alien family members are American citizens and some are Mexican citizens. *The wrong would be not to make it right*. Apply the 14th amendment as the founding father intended it to be applied.  The fact is the 14th amendment is obsolete because *there are no children of ex-slaves.* Blacks are citizens of American citizens by way of the 14th already. Children born to American citizens of automatically American citizens. Children born to Mexican citizens or Mexican citizens.

Apply the 14th Amendment as the Founding Fathers intended it to be applied.* Anchor babies are not children of ex-slave*. 

Those who want to keep the 14th Amendment as it is, is just *exacerbating the problem.*


----------



## LilOlLady

*14th Amendment increases problems with illegal immigration*
By Anika Jhalani | October 4, 2010 

The very first lines of the 14th amendment to the United States Constitution read, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." This simple sentence has sparked a debate over the possible solutions and complications surrounding one of America's most controversial issues: illegal immigration. The 14th amendment, which introduces birthright citizenship, has encouraged some illegal immigrants to try to have children in the United States, which has created a host of problems for our nation. 
]Illegal immigration is an issue that has plagued our nation for too long; it has created racist barriers, driven states into debt and caused Americans to contradict the very principles their country was founded upon. The catalyst for this ongoing problem has been abuse of the 14th amendment, which guarantees birthright citizenship. 
The 14th amendment, which was established after the civil war to provide equal rights to former slaves, has exacerbated the problem of illegal immigration because it established the idea of "birth right" citizenship, a concept that created a myriad of problems regarding illegal immigration in the United States. 
 Birthright citizenship has been a disaster. We have wasted money on undocumented people, and have encouraged them to come and drain our wallets by waving the idea of citizenship upon birth in their faces. The 14th amendment needs to be reconsidered, even amended, to clear all ambiguity regarding birthright citizenship, and solve one of our nation's largest ongoing issues.

*Cont;*14th Amendment increases problems with illegal immigration | Saratoga Falcon


----------



## Angelhair

_Really - who gives a crap!  But of course Mexico will make it a big deal and say that this delinguent was just one innocent little boy who was throwing rocks as big and as heavy as bricks!  Pardon me if I don't play any violins - again._


----------



## Angelhair

Six people are in custody who might be linked to the fatal shooting of a Border Patrol agent last month near Nogales, U.S. marshals say.

The Border Patrol arrested four illegal immigrants on Dec. 14, the night agent Brian Terry was fatally shot northwest of Nogales, including one who was hospitalized.

The next day, Border Patrol officials brought in two more men who they say might be connected to the shooting, said Ray Kondo, assistant chief of the U.S. marshals in Tucson.

"They could be involved; they could be witnesses. Who knows?" Kondo said. "We are not privy to that. They just told us they may be linked. How they are linked, I can't tell you."

All six men have made initial appearances in federal court, he said. They have been charged only with immigration offenses so far. The last one made his appearance on Tuesday after not being well enough to go to court until then.

That man's attorney, Assistant Federal Public Defender Victoria Brambl, asked the court to keep him in Tucson for medical reasons. She told the court that he had been "gravely injured, had undergone several surgeries and was in a great deal of pain," according to a news release from the federal Public Defender's Office.

The court denied the request.

The federal Public Defender's Office in Tucson has been advised by the U.S. Attorney's Office only about four people who needed to be assigned different attorneys to avoid any potential conflicts of interest in relation to the shooting, said Heather Williams, first assistant federal public defender for Arizona.

The U.S. Attorney's Office isn't required to tell the federal Public Defender's Office about potential conflicts of interest among detainees, but it usually does so as a courtesy, Williams said.

The four in custody whom Williams' office is aware of have been charged with re-entry after deportation but nothing related to the shooting.

FBI spokesman Manuel Johnson couldn't confirm the marshals' report about the two additional men in custody, saying only that the FBI was advised about the four men arrested by the Border Patrol the night of the shooting. The FBI is handling the investigation.

Agent Terry was killed during a shootout with suspected border bandits near Peck Canyon northwest of Nogales late in the evening. The U.S. Attorney's Office has not announced any criminal charges in relation to the shooting.

Terry, 40, was the 10th agent to die on duty in the Border Patrol Tucson Sector since 1926 and the first since 1998. Terry was buried in his hometown of Detroit on Dec. 22.

A public memorial service in Tucson is planned for 11 a.m. Jan. 21 at Kino Stadium, formerly known as Tucson Electric Park.

2 more held; may be linked to Terry killing


----------



## LilOlLady

Two Thumbs said:


> Who gives a crap what mexico has to say/



Obama, Napolitano and the attorney general who will investigate until the find the border patrol guilty of murder, send him off to prison and pay the family millions in a civil suit.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Original intent of the 14th Amendment*The 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads in part: 

*"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside.*" 
Babies born to illegal alien mothers within U.S. borders are called anchor babies because under the *1965 immigration Ac*t, they act as an anchor that pulls the illegal alien mother and eventually a host of other relatives into permanent U.S. residency. (Jackpot babies is another term). 

The United States *did not limit immigration in 1868 when the Fourteenth Amendment was ratified*. Thus there were, by definition, *no illegal immigrants *and the issue of citizenship for children of those here in *violation of the law was nonexistent*. Granting of automatic citizenship to children of illegal alien mothers is* a recent and totally inadvertent and unforeseen result of the amendment* and the* Reconstructionist period in which it was ratified*. 

*Post-Civil War reforms focused on injustices to African Americans*. The 14th Amendment was ratified in 1868 to *protect the rights of native-born Black Americans*, whose rights were being denied as recently-freed slaves. It was written in a manner so as to *prevent state governments from ever denying citizenship to blacks born in the United States*. But in 1868, the United States had *no formal immigration policy*, and *the authors therefore saw no need to address immigration explicitly in the amendment*. 

*In 1866, Senator Jacob Howard clearly spelled out the intent of the 14th Amendment by stating*: 

"Every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are *foreigners, aliens*, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country." 

*This understanding was reaffirmed by Senator Edward Cowan, who stated:* 

"[A foreigner in the United States] has a right to the protection of the laws; but he is not a citizen in the ordinary acceptance of the word..." 

The phrase "*subject to the jurisdiction thereof"* was intended to exclude American-born persons from automatic citizenship whose allegiance to the United States was not complete. With illegal aliens who are unlawfully in the United States, *their native country has a claim of allegiance on the child*. Thus, the completeness of *their allegiance to the United States is impaired*, which therefore *precludes automatic citizenship*. 

*Supreme Court decisions*
The correct interpretation of the 14th Amendment is that *an illegal alien mother is subject to the jurisdiction of her native country, as is her baby*. 

Over a century ago, the Supreme Court appropriately confirmed this restricted interpretation of citizenship in the so-called "Slaughter-House cases" [83 US 36 (1873) and 112 US 94 (1884)]13. In the 1884 Elk v.Wilkins case12, the phrase "subject to its jurisdiction" was interpreted to exclude "children of ministers, consuls, and citizens of foreign states born within the United States." In Elk, the American Indian claimant was considered not an American citizen because the law required him to be "not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction and owing them direct and immediate allegiance." 

The Court essentially stated that the status of *the parents determines the citizenship of the child*. To qualify children for birthright citizenship, based on the 14th Amendment, *parents must owe "direct and immediate allegiance" to the U.S. and be "completely subject" to its jurisdiction.* In other words, *they must be United States citizens*. 

Congress subsequently passed a special act to grant full citizenship to American Indians, who were not citizens even through they were born within the borders of the United States. The Citizens Act of 1924, codified in 8USCSß1401, provides that: 

The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
(b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe. 

In 1889, the Wong Kim Ark Supreme Court case10,11 once again, in a ruling based strictly on the 14th Amendment, concluded that t*he status of the parents was crucial in determining the citizenship of the child*. The current misinterpretation of the 14th Amendment is based in part upon the presumption that the *Wong Kim Ark ruling encompassed illegal aliens*. In fact, *it did not address the children of illegal aliens and non-immigrant aliens*, but rather determined an allegiance for legal immigrant parents based on the meaning of the word domicil(e). Since it is *inconceivable that illegal alien parents could have a legal domicile in the United States*, the *ruling clearly did not extend birthright citizenship to children of illegal alien parents*. Indeed, the ruling strengthened the original intent of the 14th Amendment. 

*The original intent of the 14th Amendment was clearly not to facilitate illegal aliens defying U.S. law and obtaining citizenship for their offspring, nor obtaining benefits at taxpayer expense.* Current estimates indicate there may be between *300,000 and 700,000 anchor babies *born each year in the U.S., thus causing illegal alien mothers to add more to the U.S. population each year than immigration from all sources in an average year before 1965. (See consequences.) 

*American citizens must be wary of elected politicians voting to illegally extend our generous social benefits to illegal aliens and other criminals*. 


http://www.14thamendment.us/birthright_ ... ntent.html


----------



## Speeddemon22

LilOlLady said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who gives a crap what mexico has to say/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obama, Napolitano and the attorney general who will investigate until the find the border patrol guilty of murder, send him off to prison and pay the family millions in a civil suit.
Click to expand...


While I'm sure they'd _like_ to do that, they won't.  The BP agents were arresting drug runners while this kid and his friends threw rocks at them.  This on the heels of a BP agent being murdered in AZ by an illegal.  So the real question is, what the fuck did these kids think would happen?  Did they think the BP agents were going to smile and wave, all friendly and shit?  I mean, I don't like to see people die, but unless you have a serious death wish, you don't DO dumb shit like that.


----------



## Speeddemon22

And as always, another version of the story emerges...

Read THIS SHIT:

Barron Torres friend, who said he witnessed the shooting, denied that there was any rock-throwing. The 17-year-old Sonoran youth, who agreed to be interviewed only on the condition that his name would not be printed, said he was on the U.S. side of the border and Barron Torres was standing five or six meters away from the fence when the agent fired.

I think he fired just to scare me, the youth said. But the bullet passed through the fence  the barrier at the spot where the shooting occurred consists of vertical steel tubes with several inches of space between them  and stuck Barron Torres instead.

The youth said the agent ran up behind him and grabbed him as he was trying to scale the fence back into Mexico, but let go when he started screaming that his friend had been shot.

I think he got scared, he said.

Asked if the teens had been throwing rocks, the alleged witness said no. He suggested the agent fired at him because he was running toward the agent as he looked for a spot to jump the fence. Whats more, he was wearing a ski mask at the time  to ward off the cold, he said  and the mask may have frightened the agent.

YOU'VE GOT TO BE FUCKING KIDDING ME.  THIS KID ADMITS TO RUNNING TOWARD A BP AGENT WEARING A SKI MASK...And he wants us to believe he shouldn't have been shot at.


----------



## LilOlLady

*14TH AMENDMENT IS OBSOLETE*

Because there are *no longer any ex-slaves to apply it to*. After ex-slave were given citizenship, it was *no longer necessary or a viable law.*

The 14th Amendment applied to *ex slaves and their children through them*, but since there are *no more children of ex-slaves, it is obsolete *and need to be changed to *&#8220;only children born to American citizens are American citizens.&#8221; *That means if you are an illegal alien, your *children cannot become american citizens until you become an American citizen.*

In 1868 there were *no illegal aliens and no immigration laws *so the 14th Amendment *could not legally apply to children of illegal aliens*. The *long established practice *of giving citizenship to children of illegal aliens is *unconstitutional and need to be fixed ASAP and retroactive*. We cannot take citizenship away from people? *Yes we can and yes we have.*

Even after the 14th Amendment gave citizenship to ex-slaves and their descendents, they still were not deemed complete citizens (* ¾ citizens*) and it took the *Civil Right Movement* concluding in the *Civil Rights Bill *of 1965 to give them *complete and equal citizenship rights*. 

Black American citizens could not vote like other American citizens. It took the Voting *Act of 1965 *to change the* &#8220;practice&#8221; *of not letting Blacks vote.

Just because a *&#8220;practice&#8221; *has been going on for *150 years *do not mean it is legal. Explain that to *Chris Matthews and others *who want to *leave parts of the 14th amendment out *and *only cite and apply parts of it *which is &#8220;*trampling&#8221; on the constitution by allowing children of illegal aliens to be American citizens.*

We need to *correct a 150 old practice *that is *illegal and unconstitutional*. We cannot continue to give citizenship to anyone&#8217;s child that is born here. That has become *America&#8217;s biggest tragedy *because *anchor baby&#8217;s children are deem american citizens *when* legally the anchor baby is not a legal american citizen*. And these people who are *part of the illegal alien family *is able to *vote *and has all the benefits of an american citizen. And they did absolutely nothing to earn citizenship except being born here. And _*when they vote, it will be in favor or amnesty for their families who are in the country illegally*_.

The *14th Amendment became obsolete when the last ex-slave became a citizen in 1868*. Blacks fought long and hard even after emancipation (1863)for *equal and  complete citizenship *and they *earned every bit of it.* What have *illegal aliens and anchor babies done to earn citizenship*?

&#8220;Anchor babies are not children of ex-slave.&#8221;


----------



## Rozman

We can't even take care of or provide a safety net for our own citizens so we make sure we take care of those who enter this country illegally and reward them for having children here...

Now Jerry Brown, Governor of California in a state that is ready to collapse from the weight of its liberal spending ways wants to make sure that the illegals get a free college education.

Gov. moonbeam is one wacked out Mamma Jamma.


----------



## editec

*



14TH AMENDMENT IS OBSOLETE

Click to expand...

 
The Constitution itself is obsolete.

*


----------



## LilOlLady

*&#8220;WE CANNOT THROW PEOPLE OUT OF THE COUNTRY&#8221;* 
Quoted Chris Matthews. Yes we can and yes we have.

When we &#8220;throw&#8221; people out of the county when they are here illegally, it is called &#8220;deportation.&#8221;

Border patrol agents chase down, catch illegal aliens, hand cuff them and &#8220;throw&#8221; them out of the country back into Mexico. But if they get past the border patrols, we cannot round them up, hand cuff them and throw them out of the country because that would be &#8220;racial profiling.&#8221;

When we &#8220;throw&#8221; criminals into prison, it is called &#8220;incarceration.&#8221;

ICE raided McDonald, meat packing companies and other business and rounded up those working illegal and &#8220;threw&#8221; them out of the country. Deported them.

When we &#8220;throw&#8221; people out of their homes if they do not pay their mortgage, it is called &#8220;foreclosures.&#8221;

When we &#8220;throw&#8221; people out of homes they are renting for not paying their rent, it is called &#8220;evictions.&#8221;

This country is my home and illegal aliens have broken in and are staying as uninvited guess and ICE has to round them up and &#8220;throw&#8221; them out of my home. Deportation.

Deportation by Attritions is another way to &#8220;throw&#8221; those who are working in the country illegally out.

E-Verify is another way to &#8220;throw&#8221; illegal aliens out of the country. It is called Self Deportation or Deportation by Attrition.

If they cannot work they will &#8220;self deport&#8221; and they will take their families with them. Since the economy went bad, illegal aliens have been &#8220;throwing&#8221; themselves out of the country by the thousands.


----------



## LilOlLady

There have been *two major periods of mass deportations *in U.S. history. In the *Mexican Repatriation of the 1930s*, through mass deportations and forced migration, an estimated 500,000 Mexicans and Mexican Americans were deported or coerced into emigrating, in what Mae Ngai, an immigration history expert at the University of Chicago, has described as "*a racial removal program*

Later, in *Operation Wetback in 1954, *when the United States last deported a sizable number of illegal immigrants, in some cases along with their U.S. born children (who are citizens according to U.S. law), *some illegal immigrants, fearful of potential violence as police swarmed through Mexican American barrios throughout the southeastern states, stopping "Mexican-looking" citizens on the street and asking for identification, fled to Mexico*Illegal immigration to the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Striking miners and others being *deported at gunpoint *from Lowell, Arizona, on July 12, 1917, during the Bisbee Deportation.
Deportation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Deportations from the United States increased by more than* 60 percent from 2003 to 2008*, with *Mexicans accounting for nearly two-thirds of those deported*.
Illegal immigration to the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## LilOlLady

Illegal aliens *broke the country *and now they are leaving and going back to Mexico.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Lawyer Allred throws illegal alien client under the bus for $6,210*October 7, 2010 By Steve M 

If youre looking for further proof Gloria Allred is flat out using Nicky Diaz Santillan as a political prop, all you have to do is look at the new lawsuit filed. *Allred has exposed her client to felony charges and deportation to simply sue Meg Whitman for $6,210 in back wages and mileage reimbursement*. You cant make this stuff up I tell ya.

Diaz Santillan is being taken for a ride and used as a political ad campaign against Meg Whitman by Gloria Allred. Allred has absolutely no concern for her client. Im wondering at what point will Diaz Santillan realize this, disassociate herself with Allred, and attempt to quietly blend in with the other illegal aliens in the country.

On the other hand, Allred probably pointing to the Aunt Zeituni case in Boston and told her *there would be no way Immigration and Customs Enforcement would throw her out of the country* as soon as she became a well-known housekeeper who was abused by a rich white woman  who failed to pay her a mileage reimbursement or send her a card when she had a baby.

Lawyer Allred throws illegal alien client under the bus for $6,210 | Radio Vice Online


Was Nicky deported?????


----------



## anuthervoice

no surprise here.  she served her purpose.  useful idiots.


----------



## jillian

she's entitled to be paid.

i'm not quite sure how that's 'throwing her under the bus'. the law says legal status isn't a defense to nonpayment of wages.

i love the woe is me fauxrage, though. cause we all know it's whitman who's the victim here. 


*not*


----------



## jillian

she's entitled to be paid.

i'm not quite sure how that's 'throwing her under the bus'. the law says legal status isn't a defense to nonpayment of wages.

i love the woe is me fauxrage, though. cause we all know it's whitman who's the victim here. 


*not*


----------



## Angelhair

_Gloria AlRED used the Diaz woman to help Brown get elected - her friend of many years.  Diaz will not be deported as this government does not follow the Rule of Law anymore!   It's that simple.  We are NOW a 3rd world country.  I really thought we still had a few years left of sanity, but I guess I was wrong._


----------



## jillian

Angelhair said:


> _Gloria AlRED used the Diaz woman to help Brown get elected - her friend of many years.  Diaz will not be deported as this government does not follow the Rule of Law anymore!   It's that simple.  We are NOW a 3rd world country.  I really thought we still had a few years left of sanity, but I guess I was wrong._



i doubt diaz will be deported. and if she is, i'd think that wouldn't trouble any of the posters who are crying about alred "using' the maid.

i'd like to see proof that alred was working for brown now just because she did work for him as a NOW volunteer in the 70's. assuming a relationship of any kind, isn't it more likely that the campaign got the info and sent the woman to alred to protect her rights? (and mind you, i can't stand gloria alred, but i can't stand more the whining about an illegal alien's *rights* by a bunch of people who think all illegals should be rounded up.

shouldn't you be more concerned that your candndiate hired someone illegally and then LIED because she knew it would cost her the election? 

who threw the maid under the bus again?


----------



## editec

> shouldn't you be more concerned that your candndiate hired someone illegally and then LIED because she knew it would cost her the election?


 
What and ADMIT that their heroine is a lying emploitive piece of hypocritical shit?

Come on now, Jill, you know these people better than that.


----------



## Mad Scientist

It was much harder for then to get here, leaving is just a matter of getting to the border.


----------



## LilOlLady

editec said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> 14TH AMENDMENT IS OBSOLETE
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Constitution itself is obsolete.
> *



27 Amendments to the US Constitution *Since then it has been amended 27 times and can be amended in the future as well . *... Of the 27 amendments to the US constitution, only 26 amendments are in ...
http://www.usmessageboard.com/immig....../27-amendments-to-the-us-constitution.html - Cached - Similar
*
This should reallly tell us something about the Constitution.:*
When they read the constitution, did they read the 27 amendments?


----------



## Truthmatters

Yeap , its a living document which is what teh founders designed.

There are times the people get it wrong and have to correct it like prohibition.

The American people do not think the 14th amendment needs repealing


----------



## LilOlLady

Mad Scientist said:


> It was much harder for then to get here, leaving is just a matter of getting to the border.



*If we started to round them up and putting them on busses and sending them home, others would get the message and volunteer in herds to get on the busses to get the best free seats for free ride back home.*
*
They are being stopped at the border also and searched for guns and drug money.*


----------



## LilOlLady

*Amid fuss over illegal immigrants, they're already going home&#8217;*
By Marisa Taylor | McClatchy Newspapers

HARRISONBURG, Va. &#8212; *For 10 years*, Ezequiel Gonzalez and his wife, Lupe, feared that their lives as illegal immigrants in America would be discovered. 
One spring evening two years ago, it finally happened. Immigration agents detected Ezequiel *working illegally at a local glass company here and ordered him deported to Mexico*. Left on her own, Lupe packed up their few belongings and prepared their four children, ages 8 through 15, for the journey to *a country they barely knew*.
Read more;
Amid fuss over illegal immigrants, they're already going home | McClatchy


----------



## WillowTree

Angelhair said:


> _Gloria AlRED used the Diaz woman to help Brown get elected - her friend of many years.  Diaz will not be deported as this government does not follow the Rule of Law anymore!   It's that simple.  We are NOW a 3rd world country.  I really thought we still had a few years left of sanity, but I guess I was wrong._



BullsEye. Spot on. Politics pure and simple. There's a special place in hell for lawyers like that.


----------



## Angelhair

_Chris Matthews is a dunce.  YES we can; but NO we won't._


----------



## WillowTree

jillian said:


> Angelhair said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Gloria AlRED used the Diaz woman to help Brown get elected - her friend of many years.  Diaz will not be deported as this government does not follow the Rule of Law anymore!   It's that simple.  We are NOW a 3rd world country.  I really thought we still had a few years left of sanity, but I guess I was wrong._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i doubt diaz will be deported. and if she is, i'd think that wouldn't trouble any of the posters who are crying about alred "using' the maid.
> 
> i'd like to see proof that alred was working for brown now just because she did work for him as a NOW volunteer in the 70's. assuming a relationship of any kind, isn't it more likely that the campaign got the info and sent the woman to alred to protect her rights? (and mind you, i can't stand gloria alred, but i can't stand more the whining about an illegal alien's *rights* by a bunch of people who think all illegals should be rounded up.
> 
> shouldn't you be more concerned that your candndiate hired someone illegally and then LIED because she knew it would cost her the election?
> 
> who threw the maid under the bus again?
Click to expand...


She hired a woman through an employment agency who showed up at her door with all the proper documents all of them stolen. Yes, Whitman is the victim, the victim of a lying thief who stole into this country illegally and lied her way into being employed and will now be rewarded for the lying and the theft and then Whitman was victimized by That Bitch Alred who took political advantage of the hate mongering the left had stirred up. You guys did a good job. It leaves a shitty taste in the mouths of most Americans.


----------



## WillowTree

editec said:


> shouldn't you be more concerned that your candndiate hired someone illegally and then LIED because she knew it would cost her the election?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What and ADMIT that their heroine is a lying emploitive piece of hypocritical shit?
> 
> Come on now, Jill, you know these people better than that.
Click to expand...


we know who the lying peices of shit are and it's not Mrs. Whitman.


----------



## Sarah G

LilOlLady said:


> *WE CANNOT THROW PEOPLE OUT OF THE COUNTRY*
> Quoted Chris Matthews. Yes we can and yes we have.
> 
> When we throw people out of the county when they are here illegally, it is called deportation.
> 
> Border patrol agents chase down, catch illegal aliens, hand cuff them and throw them out of the country back into Mexico. But if they get past the border patrols, we cannot round them up, hand cuff them and throw them out of the country because that would be racial profiling.
> 
> When we throw criminals into prison, it is called incarceration.
> 
> ICE raided McDonald, meat packing companies and other business and rounded up those working illegal and threw them out of the country. Deported them.
> 
> When we throw people out of their homes if they do not pay their mortgage, it is called foreclosures.
> 
> When we throw people out of homes they are renting for not paying their rent, it is called evictions.
> 
> This country is my home and illegal aliens have broken in and are staying as uninvited guess and ICE has to round them up and throw them out of my home. Deportation.
> 
> Deportation by Attritions is another way to throw those who are working in the country illegally out.
> 
> E-Verify is another way to throw illegal aliens out of the country. It is called Self Deportation or Deportation by Attrition.
> 
> If they cannot work they will self deport and they will take their families with them. Since the economy went bad, illegal aliens have been throwing themselves out of the country by the thousands.



We can throw people out of the country but not 12,000,000 people.  You all are going to have to find a way to live with our Latino neighbors other than attempting to throw them out.

Sorry about that.  Use your brain.


----------



## Sarah G

Angelhair said:


> _Chris Matthews is a dunce.  YES we can; but NO we won't._



No we can't and you're the dunce.


----------



## Jackson

Truthmatters said:


> Yeap , its a living document which is what teh founders designed.
> 
> There are times the people get it wrong and have to correct it like prohibition.
> 
> The American people do not think the 14th amendment needs repealing



Perhaps it doesn't need repealing, but amendments have to be added to spellout exactly what the OP is talking about.

Since our Supreme Court seems to be leaning to be a legislative Court, I feel that more amendments have to be seriously considered to spell out what immigration laws and citizenship allows in this nation.


----------



## Jackson

Sarah G said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *WE CANNOT THROW PEOPLE OUT OF THE COUNTRY*
> Quoted Chris Matthews. Yes we can and yes we have.
> 
> When we throw people out of the county when they are here illegally, it is called deportation.
> 
> Border patrol agents chase down, catch illegal aliens, hand cuff them and throw them out of the country back into Mexico. But if they get past the border patrols, we cannot round them up, hand cuff them and throw them out of the country because that would be racial profiling.
> 
> When we throw criminals into prison, it is called incarceration.
> 
> ICE raided McDonald, meat packing companies and other business and rounded up those working illegal and threw them out of the country. Deported them.
> 
> When we throw people out of their homes if they do not pay their mortgage, it is called foreclosures.
> 
> When we throw people out of homes they are renting for not paying their rent, it is called evictions.
> 
> This country is my home and illegal aliens have broken in and are staying as uninvited guess and ICE has to round them up and throw them out of my home. Deportation.
> 
> Deportation by Attritions is another way to throw those who are working in the country illegally out.
> 
> E-Verify is another way to throw illegal aliens out of the country. It is called Self Deportation or Deportation by Attrition.
> 
> If they cannot work they will self deport and they will take their families with them. Since the economy went bad, illegal aliens have been throwing themselves out of the country by the thousands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We can throw people out of the country but not 12,000,000 people.  You all are going to have to find a way to live with our Latino neighbors other than attempting to throw them out.
> 
> Sorry about that.  Use your brain.
Click to expand...


It's been done before in history.  Let's give it a try and see who's right.  We can start with the brave state of Arizona.  They deserve to have the Honor.


----------



## LilOlLady

Sarah G said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *&#8220;WE CANNOT THROW PEOPLE OUT OF THE COUNTRY&#8221;*
> Quoted Chris Matthews. Yes we can and yes we have.
> 
> When we &#8220;throw&#8221; people out of the county when they are here illegally, it is called &#8220;deportation.&#8221;
> 
> Border patrol agents chase down, catch illegal aliens, hand cuff them and &#8220;throw&#8221; them out of the country back into Mexico. But if they get past the border patrols, we cannot round them up, hand cuff them and throw them out of the country because that would be &#8220;racial profiling.&#8221;
> 
> When we &#8220;throw&#8221; criminals into prison, it is called &#8220;incarceration.&#8221;
> 
> ICE raided McDonald, meat packing companies and other business and rounded up those working illegal and &#8220;threw&#8221; them out of the country. Deported them.
> 
> When we &#8220;throw&#8221; people out of their homes if they do not pay their mortgage, it is called &#8220;foreclosures.&#8221;
> 
> When we &#8220;throw&#8221; people out of homes they are renting for not paying their rent, it is called &#8220;evictions.&#8221;
> 
> This country is my home and illegal aliens have broken in and are staying as uninvited guess and ICE has to round them up and &#8220;throw&#8221; them out of my home. Deportation.
> 
> Deportation by Attritions is another way to &#8220;throw&#8221; those who are working in the country illegally out.
> 
> E-Verify is another way to &#8220;throw&#8221; illegal aliens out of the country. It is called Self Deportation or Deportation by Attrition.
> 
> If they cannot work they will &#8220;self deport&#8221; and they will take their families with them. Since the economy went bad, illegal aliens have been &#8220;throwing&#8221; themselves out of the country by the thousands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We can throw people out of the country but not 12,000,000 people.  You all are going to have to find a way to live with our *Latino neighbors *other than attempting to throw them out.
> 
> Sorry about that.  Use your brain.
Click to expand...


Use your brain.  You use the same old *lame rhetoric *that lefties use. *"We cannot round up 20 million people and put them on busses and deport them."* No one is suggesting that. But we can get them to *self deport *if we had the guts to. If we enforced our immigration laws, they would self deport. If the economy continue like it is there will be *no work *for them and they will leave. No all of them will not leave, but enough to make a difference. I can see the difference here in RENO.
*"Fences make good neighbors." *Agree?

No we don't have to learn to live *WITH* them and we never will. They will leave and we will not have to deport them. A change is gonna come and you had better get use to it.
They have been leaving ariz and going home since 2007 because of work.


----------



## LilOlLady

Truthmatters said:


> Yeap , its a living document which is what teh founders designed.
> 
> There are times the people* get it wrong *and have to correct it like prohibition.
> 
> The *American people do not think the 14th amendment needs repealing[/B]*


*

Yes we do. Who do you mean when you say "they amrican people"? Anchor babies, their parents and pro-amnesty advocates? Maybe not repealing, but eliminated altogether. it is of no use now. Anchor babies are not descendent of ex-slave.

Do a little research and know who the founding father were. A bunch of immoral criminals thugs.*


----------



## Madeline

I have never understood why we can't deport illegals.  So what if there are 20 million?  Are we physically unable to move that many people, or what?

Makes no sense to me....I'd love to hear this argument fleshed out more.


----------



## Stephanie

Sarah G said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *WE CANNOT THROW PEOPLE OUT OF THE COUNTRY*
> Quoted Chris Matthews. Yes we can and yes we have.
> 
> When we throw people out of the county when they are here illegally, it is called deportation.
> 
> Border patrol agents chase down, catch illegal aliens, hand cuff them and throw them out of the country back into Mexico. But if they get past the border patrols, we cannot round them up, hand cuff them and throw them out of the country because that would be racial profiling.
> 
> When we throw criminals into prison, it is called incarceration.
> 
> ICE raided McDonald, meat packing companies and other business and rounded up those working illegal and threw them out of the country. Deported them.
> 
> When we throw people out of their homes if they do not pay their mortgage, it is called foreclosures.
> 
> When we throw people out of homes they are renting for not paying their rent, it is called evictions.
> 
> This country is my home and illegal aliens have broken in and are staying as uninvited guess and ICE has to round them up and throw them out of my home. Deportation.
> 
> Deportation by Attritions is another way to throw those who are working in the country illegally out.
> 
> E-Verify is another way to throw illegal aliens out of the country. It is called Self Deportation or Deportation by Attrition.
> 
> If they cannot work they will self deport and they will take their families with them. Since the economy went bad, illegal aliens have been throwing themselves out of the country by the thousands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We can throw people out of the country but not 12,000,000 people.  You all are going to have to find a way to live with our Latino neighbors other than attempting to throw them out.
> 
> Sorry about that.  Use your brain.
Click to expand...


You bleeding hearts are going to be the DEATH of our country. we are well on our now.


----------



## Mad Scientist

Madeline said:


> I have never understood *why we can't deport illegals*.  So what if there are 20 million?  Are we physically unable to move that many people, or what?
> 
> Makes no sense to me....I'd love to hear this argument fleshed out more.


Government doesn't WANT to because:

1. Businesses want the slave labor.
2. Politicians want the votes. 

Yes, illegals vote. En masse.


----------



## 007

Sarah G said:


> We can throw people out of the country but not 12,000,000 people.  You all are going to have to find a way to live with our Latino neighbors other than attempting to throw them out.
> 
> Sorry about that.  Use your brain.



The above comments are a very good example of a defeatist attitude. It's a good example of defective liberal thinking, and must not be listened to.

Americans can do anything they put their will power into, and that includes riding our nation of illegal aliens, no matter how many there are here, it can and should be done.


----------



## rdean

Mad Scientist said:


> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have never understood *why we can't deport illegals*.  So what if there are 20 million?  Are we physically unable to move that many people, or what?
> 
> Makes no sense to me....I'd love to hear this argument fleshed out more.
> 
> 
> 
> Government doesn't WANT to because:
> 
> 1. Businesses want the slave labor.
> 2. Politicians want the votes.
> 
> Yes, illegals vote. En masse.
Click to expand...


Illegals don't vote.  

Corporations trick the middle class into voting Republican.

Darrel Issa sends out emails to corporations asking them, "What should we do next?"

The Republican base, watching their leadership send jobs to China and add another two trillion of debt to their children's future, complain, "Government doesn't work".

See how circular?


----------



## LilOlLady

duplicate post deleted


----------



## LilOlLady

*Should we continue to give welfare to anchor babies even if it bankrupts our nation?*
The children of illegal aliens (anchor babies) have bankrupted the state of California 

In 2009, San Bernardino County spent $64 million providing welfare benefits to U.S.-born children of illegal aliens.

According to county records, during a typical month, close to 15,000 offspring of illegal aliens received either welfare payments or food stamps in 2009. Over 11,000 of those children received both forms of assistance.

Illegal immigration is slowly but surely destroying this nation.

Source: http://www.examiner.com/x-35821-Immigrat
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 424AAdOuB3

*
More reason to repeal 14th Amendment. and stop illegal immigration, secure the border and deport. 

Don't tell me they do not come here to have their babies. They don't get these kind of benefits in Mexico. *


----------



## LilOlLady

How do i delete a post????


----------



## Tank

We keep feeding them , and they will keep breeding them.


----------



## Ravi

LilOlLady said:


> How do i delete a post????


Ask an illegal immigrant to do it for you...the vast majority of them are smarter than you.


----------



## Madeline

Ravi said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do i delete a post????
> 
> 
> 
> Ask an illegal immigrant to do it for you...the vast majority of them are smarter than you.
Click to expand...


Hit "edit" -- a window pops up and there's an option for deleting a post.

BTW, this surprises me greatly.  Don't you need ID to apply for TANF?


----------



## LilOlLady

*Nevadas percentage of illegal immigrants in workforce tops nation*By Timothy Pratt
Tuesday, April 14, 2009 | 9:47 a.m.

Nevada tops the nation when it comes to the percentage of illegal immigrants in the workforce, according to a report issued today by the Pew Hispanic Center.

The Washington-based think tank estimates that *170,000 workers*, or 12.2 percent of the state's total, are illegal immigrants. That is more than twice the national average, which is 5.4 percent. The top five were rounded out by California, Arizona, New Jersey and Florida. The figures are 2008 estimates.
The report also estimates that there are* 230,000 undocumented immigrants in Nevada*, placing the state 13th nationwide.
Other findings in the report include that 4 million children, or nearly three-fourths of the children born to illegal immigrants, are U.S. citizens by birth.
The report also notes that Nevada is one of five states in which at least one in 10 children in K-12 schools has a parent who is an illegal immigrant.
To read the full report go to pewhispanic.org.
Nevada&#39;s percentage of illegal immigrants in workforce tops nation - Tuesday, April 14, 2009 | 9:47 a.m. - Las Vegas Sun
*
That explains the reason Nevadas unemployment is the highest in the nation. Thanks to illegal aliens.
170,000 in the workforce? What are the remaining 60,000 doing? Some are living off the welfare given to anchor babies. Welfare grants, food stamps, public housing, Medicaid.
Where are they working? We dont have lettuce fields, slaughter and meat packing houses. There in every area of work there is. 
ILLEGALS Costs Nevada Taxpayers $2 Million EACH Month
One Old Vet  ILLEGALS Costs Nevada Taxpayers $2 Million EACH Month*


----------



## LilOlLady

Ravi said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do i delete a post????
> 
> 
> 
> Ask an illegal immigrant to do it for you...the vast majority of them are smarter than you.
Click to expand...


*Ravi; F*** you. and the majority of illegal aliens.*


----------



## LilOlLady

Madeline said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do i delete a post????
> 
> 
> 
> Ask an illegal immigrant to do it for you...the vast majority of them are smarter than you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hit "edit" -- a window pops up and there's an option for deleting a post.
> 
> BTW, this surprises me greatly.  Don't you need ID to apply for TANF?
Click to expand...


They have IDs. And they are not applying for themselves, and they only need to prove there childeren are anchor babies. They are in the welfare offices, filling out application with the help of translaters. Welfare office is not allow to ask of their status in the country and illegal does not matter to the welfare office. The children are legal citizens and eligible for welfare.


----------



## LilOlLady

madeline said:


> ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lilollady said:
> 
> 
> 
> how do i delete a post????
> 
> 
> 
> ask an illegal immigrant to do it for you...the vast majority of them are smarter than you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hit "edit" --* a window pops up and there's an option for deleting a post.*
> btw, this surprises me greatly.  Don't you need id to apply for tanf?
Click to expand...




*thank you madeline.*


----------



## Ravi

You call them anchor babies but what they are are Americans.

Choke on it.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Harry Reid: Illegal Aliens Don't Work on Construction Jobs in Nevada *[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzFfK5B6kLg[/ame]

*Dems give scarce Nevada jobs to Illegal Immigrants *[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLvRoEkyS9c[/ame]

*Harry Reid has dementia.*


----------



## Madeline

LilOlLady said:


> madeline said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> ask an illegal immigrant to do it for you...the vast majority of them are smarter than you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hit "edit" --* a window pops up and there's an option for deleting a post.*
> btw, this surprises me greatly.  Don't you need id to apply for tanf?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *thank you madeline.*
Click to expand...


You're welcome, but I still have the same question.

How is anyone getting TANF without ID?


----------



## Tank

Ravi said:


> You call them anchor babies but what they are are Americans.
> 
> Choke on it.


They prefer to be call Mexican American, the word Mexican is always in front of the word American.


----------



## AmericanFirst

Ravi said:


> You call them anchor babies but what they are are Americans.
> 
> Choke on it.


They are anchor babies, idiot. Choke on that.


----------



## Nate

Madeline said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> madeline said:
> 
> 
> 
> hit "edit" --* a window pops up and there's an option for deleting a post.*
> btw, this surprises me greatly.  Don't you need id to apply for tanf?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *thank you madeline.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're welcome, but I still have the same question.
> 
> How is anyone getting TANF without ID?
Click to expand...




> The 2002 Farm Bill restores SNAP eligibility to most legal immigrants that:
> 
> Have lived in the country for 5 years; or
> Are receiving disability-related assistance or benefits, regardless of entry date;* or
> Starting 10-1-03, are children regardless of entry date.*
> 
> Certain non-citizens such as those admitted for humanitarian reasons and those admitted for permanent residence are also eligible for the program. *Eligible household members can get SNAP benefits even if there are other members of the household that are not eligible*
> 
> (See Policy on Immigrants for information on qualified alien categories and eligibility)
> 
> Non-citizens that are in the U.S. temporarily, such as students, are not eligible.
> 
> A number of States have their own programs to provide benefits to immigrants who do not meet the regular SNAP eligibility requirements.  For a table of those programs, see State Programs.
> 
> 
> Last modified: 09/17/2010
> 
> Eligibility



This is why the Anchor baby issue is such a problem Madeline.


----------



## Two Thumbs

They are Americans and have all the rights of the rest of Americans.

Until we get control of the evil that is welfare, we will always have to care for them b/c thier families refuse.

Seems the only option is to send them to the countries thier parents came from.  If they decide to leave thier family they will be free to return.

Criminals shouldn't get a pass just b/c they know how to abuse our Constitution.


----------



## Two Thumbs

LilOlLady said:


> How do i delete a post????



Why would you want to?

Out of 3 postings today from you this is the only one that makes sense.

You asked a hardline question and posted facts to back up your take on things.


----------



## Madeline

LilOlLady said:


> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ask an illegal immigrant to do it for you...the vast majority of them are smarter than you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hit "edit" -- a window pops up and there's an option for deleting a post.
> 
> BTW, this surprises me greatly.  Don't you need ID to apply for TANF?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They have IDs. And they are not applying for themselves, and they only need to prove there childeren are anchor babies. They are in the welfare offices, filling out application with the help of translaters. Welfare office is not allow to ask of their status in the country and illegal does not matter to the welfare office. The children are legal citizens and eligible for welfare.
Click to expand...


So the family is awarded aid, but only enough for one child?

What an insane system.  God help us if these parents discover SSI.


----------



## Talismen

LilOlLady said:


> *Should we continue to give welfare to anchor babies even if it bankrupts our nation?*
> The children of illegal aliens (anchor babies) have bankrupted the state of California
> 
> In 2009, San Bernardino County spent $64 million providing welfare benefits to U.S.-born children of illegal aliens.
> 
> According to county records, during a typical month, close to 15,000 offspring of illegal aliens received either welfare payments or food stamps in 2009. Over 11,000 of those children received both forms of assistance.
> 
> Illegal immigration is slowly but surely destroying this nation.
> 
> Source: http://www.examiner.com/x-35821-Immigrat
> http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 424AAdOuB3
> 
> *
> More reason to repeal 14th Amendment. and stop illegal immigration, secure the border and deport.
> 
> Don't tell me they do not come here to have their babies. They don't get these kind of benefits in Mexico. *



It's not the babe's fault. They are being used as pawns.

If we skew the situation a bit, and make it a babe being born to an American woman who thinks that having the child will "save her marriage"....it's still the same thing. The child is being used as a pawn. It's not the child's fault.

The child shouldn't be blamed.


----------



## Madeline

Nate said:


> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *thank you madeline.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're welcome, but I still have the same question.
> 
> How is anyone getting TANF without ID?
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 2002 Farm Bill restores SNAP eligibility to most legal immigrants that:
> 
> Have lived in the country for 5 years; or
> Are receiving disability-related assistance or benefits, regardless of entry date;* or
> Starting 10-1-03, are children regardless of entry date.*
> 
> Certain non-citizens such as those admitted for humanitarian reasons and those admitted for permanent residence are also eligible for the program. *Eligible household members can get SNAP benefits even if there are other members of the household that are not eligible*
> 
> (See Policy on Immigrants for information on qualified alien categories and eligibility)
> 
> Non-citizens that are in the U.S. temporarily, such as students, are not eligible.
> 
> A number of States have their own programs to provide benefits to immigrants who do not meet the regular SNAP eligibility requirements.  For a table of those programs, see State Programs.
> 
> 
> Last modified: 09/17/2010
> 
> Eligibility
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is why the Anchor baby issue is such a problem Madeline.
Click to expand...


Your own link says illegal aliens are not eligible for SNAP (food stamps, I think).  Doubtless the requirements are higher for TANF (welfare).

I dun know if "anchor babies" are a problem, or of I want to see any changes made to the 14th Amendment.  I want illegal aliens to be deported; if they want to leave children born here behind, I guess we can cope.


----------



## José

You're more likely to be deported to Mexico than even 500.000 illegals, Madeline.

1 - America has the legal right to deport them.

2 - America has the material means to deport them.

But the political will (on the part of american politicians) and the social climate (general acceptance by the american society) is simply not there.


----------



## Two Thumbs

Madeline said:


> Nate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're welcome, but I still have the same question.
> 
> How is anyone getting TANF without ID?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 2002 Farm Bill restores SNAP eligibility to most legal immigrants that:
> 
> Have lived in the country for 5 years; or
> Are receiving disability-related assistance or benefits, regardless of entry date;* or
> Starting 10-1-03, are children regardless of entry date.*
> 
> Certain non-citizens such as those admitted for humanitarian reasons and those admitted for permanent residence are also eligible for the program. *Eligible household members can get SNAP benefits even if there are other members of the household that are not eligible*
> 
> (See Policy on Immigrants for information on qualified alien categories and eligibility)
> 
> Non-citizens that are in the U.S. temporarily, such as students, are not eligible.
> 
> A number of States have their own programs to provide benefits to immigrants who do not meet the regular SNAP eligibility requirements.  For a table of those programs, see State Programs.
> 
> 
> Last modified: 09/17/2010
> 
> Eligibility
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is why the Anchor baby issue is such a problem Madeline.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your own link says illegal aliens are not eligible for SNAP (food stamps, I think).  Doubtless the requirements are higher for TANF (welfare).
> 
> I dun know if "anchor babies" are a problem, or of I want to see any changes made to the 14th Amendment.  I want illegal aliens to be deported; if they want to leave children born here behind, I guess we can cope.
Click to expand...


The issue has not, will not and is not about "anchor babies".  It's the parasite nature of the parents.  They are at fault, they use the system to stay here and live off the system, teaching thier kids to do the same.


----------



## Madeline

José;3192915 said:
			
		

> You're more likely to be deported to Mexico than even 500.000 illegals, Madeline.
> 
> 1 - America has the legal right to deport them.
> 
> 2 - America has the material means to deport them.
> 
> But the political will (on the part of american politicians) and the social climate (general acceptance by the american society) is simply not there.



Yanno how I feel about this, Jose'.  Deportation is only half the solution -- the other half is helping Mexico up off its knees.  Mexicans should be safe and able to live decently in Mexico.  If they can't, this problem will never get solved.


----------



## Madeline

> Two Thumbs wrote:
> 
> The issue has not, will not and is not about "anchor babies". It's the parasite nature of the parents. They are at fault, they use the system to stay here and live off the system, teaching thier kids to do the same.


I disagree.  The Mexican parents are fleeing conditions far worse than my folks fled when they left Scotland in the 1920's.  At least no one was shooting at them.  Demonizing Mexico's poor is not gonna get us anywhere.


----------



## Two Thumbs

Madeline said:


> Two Thumbs wrote:
> 
> The issue has not, will not and is not about "anchor babies". It's the parasite nature of the parents. They are at fault, they use the system to stay here and live off the system, teaching thier kids to do the same.
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree.  The Mexican parents are fleeing conditions far worse than my folks fled when they left Scotland in the 1920's.  At least no one was shooting at them.  Demonizing Mexico's poor is not gonna get us anywhere.
Click to expand...


I'm not Demonizing poor people.  I'm Demonizing criminals.

Poor Mexicans are Mexicos problem, not ours.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Madeline*
> Yanno how I feel about this, Jose'. Deportation is only half the solution -- the other half is helping Mexico up off its knees. Mexicans should be safe and able to live decently in Mexico. If they can't, this problem will never get solved.



Your solution is morally superior, compassionate... And a much more effective and less costly way to solve the problem.

But it's also pie in the sky, starry eyed idealism. America will not succeed in improving living conditions in Mexico anymore than it did in Afghanistan (a dirty poor country 10 years after the american invasion).

If America opts for this strategy as a way to reduce illegal immigration instead of multiplying ICE agents a thousand fold it might just as well throw in the towel, raise the white flag and roll out the welcome mat to illegals.


----------



## Madeline

Two Thumbs said:


> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs wrote:
> 
> The issue has not, will not and is not about "anchor babies". It's the parasite nature of the parents. They are at fault, they use the system to stay here and live off the system, teaching thier kids to do the same.
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree.  The Mexican parents are fleeing conditions far worse than my folks fled when they left Scotland in the 1920's.  At least no one was shooting at them.  Demonizing Mexico's poor is not gonna get us anywhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not Demonizing poor people.  I'm Demonizing criminals.
> 
> Poor Mexicans are Mexicos problem, not ours.
Click to expand...


That makes for a lovely slogan, but it isn't getting us anywhere.  If we don't aid Mexico to restore law and order and create opportunity for its people, they will never stop trying to enter the US.  Our own self-interest dictates we take some effective action.

I just wish I knew what that might be.


----------



## Tank

Madeline said:


> If we don't aid Mexico to restore law and order and create opportunity for its people


How do you "restore" something that was never there?


----------



## Madeline

Tank said:


> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we don't aid Mexico to restore law and order and create opportunity for its people
> 
> 
> 
> How do you "restore" something that was never there?
Click to expand...


I'm not a history buff, Tank, but I do believe Mexico has enjoyed greater peace and prosperity in the past.  

Pretending their fate won't affect ours is whistling in the dark, not to mention turning our backs on our neighbor's suffering is inhumane.


----------



## syrenn

In my opinion babies of illegals are illegal births in this country. Any baby being born to and illegal in a hospital needs to be shipped out across the border the moment it comes out and not birth certificate is given. Just a record of a live birth.. If they have babies at home then the do not have a birth certificate either.

Babies of illegals should be given the same status as the mother. Illegal from what ever place she came from.


----------



## Tank

Mexicans behave the way they do, because thats what Mexicans do.

To think you can change the way a entire race behaves, are the thoughts of a racial supremist.


----------



## Sarah G

syrenn said:


> In my opinion babies of illegals are illegal births in this country. Any baby being born to and illegal in a hospital needs to be shipped out across the border the moment it comes out and not birth certificate is given. Just a record of a live birth.. If they have babies at home then the do not have a birth certificate either.
> 
> Babies of illegals should be given the same status as the mother. Illegal from what ever place she came from.



It doesn't work that way.  That child born in America is the daughter or son of a taxpayer.

Nobody is going to "ship" them anywhere.


----------



## syrenn

Sarah G said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> In my opinion babies of illegals are illegal births in this country. Any baby being born to and illegal in a hospital needs to be shipped out across the border the moment it comes out and not birth certificate is given. Just a record of a live birth.. If they have babies at home then the do not have a birth certificate either.
> 
> Babies of illegals should be given the same status as the mother. Illegal from what ever place she came from.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't work that way.  That child born in America is the daughter or son of a taxpayer.
> 
> Nobody is going to "ship" them anywhere.
Click to expand...



I understand that is not "how it works" What i suggest is that is the way "it Should work"


----------



## Two Thumbs

Madeline said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we don't aid Mexico to restore law and order and create opportunity for its people
> 
> 
> 
> How do you "restore" something that was never there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not a history buff, Tank, but I do believe Mexico has enjoyed greater peace and prosperity in the past.
> 
> Pretending their fate won't affect ours is whistling in the dark, not to mention *turning our backs on our neighbor's suffering is inhumane*.
Click to expand...


Thier suffering is of thier own doing.

We give away billions of borrowed dollars every year, year after decade to the same countries again and again.  And none have improved.

At some point you need to tell countries that it's time to grow up.


----------



## Two Thumbs

Sarah G said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> In my opinion babies of illegals are illegal births in this country. Any baby being born to and illegal in a hospital needs to be shipped out across the border the moment it comes out and not birth certificate is given. Just a record of a live birth.. If they have babies at home then the do not have a birth certificate either.
> 
> Babies of illegals should be given the same status as the mother. Illegal from what ever place she came from.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't work that way.  That child born in America is the daughter or son of a taxpayer.
> 
> Nobody is going to "ship" them anywhere.
Click to expand...


Illegal immagrants are not taxpayers.  They are criminals, thus the name illegals.

the child is an American, however the entire family should be sent back to thier country of origin.  If the kid wants to come back later, he's free to do so.


----------



## Sarah G

Two Thumbs said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> In my opinion babies of illegals are illegal births in this country. Any baby being born to and illegal in a hospital needs to be shipped out across the border the moment it comes out and not birth certificate is given. Just a record of a live birth.. If they have babies at home then the do not have a birth certificate either.
> 
> Babies of illegals should be given the same status as the mother. Illegal from what ever place she came from.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't work that way.  That child born in America is the daughter or son of a taxpayer.
> 
> Nobody is going to "ship" them anywhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Illegal immagrants are not taxpayers.  They are criminals, thus the name illegals.
> 
> the child is an American, however the entire family should be sent back to thier country of origin.  If the kid wants to come back later, he's free to do so.
Click to expand...


Many illegals are taxpayers.  You simply don't know what you are talking about here.


----------



## FifthColumn

Sarah G said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't work that way.  That child born in America is the daughter or son of a taxpayer.
> 
> Nobody is going to "ship" them anywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal immagrants are not taxpayers.  They are criminals, thus the name illegals.
> 
> the child is an American, however the entire family should be sent back to thier country of origin.  If the kid wants to come back later, he's free to do so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many illegals are taxpayers.  You simply don't know what you are talking about here.
Click to expand...


Illegals aren't taxpayers UNLESS they file a taxform with the IRS. Do they?


----------



## syrenn

Sarah G said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't work that way.  That child born in America is the daughter or son of a taxpayer.
> 
> Nobody is going to "ship" them anywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal immagrants are not taxpayers.  They are criminals, thus the name illegals.
> 
> the child is an American, however the entire family should be sent back to thier country of origin.  If the kid wants to come back later, he's free to do so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many illegals are taxpayers.  You simply don't know what you are talking about here.
Click to expand...


Anyone is allowed to purchase anything they want in this country, as its a free country. Sales taxes don't count. 

IF they are paying state and federal taxes they they are guilty of several other crimes other then being in this country illegally. They are stealing someones identity and illegal using their SS number.


----------



## Sarah G

syrenn said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal immagrants are not taxpayers.  They are criminals, thus the name illegals.
> 
> the child is an American, however the entire family should be sent back to thier country of origin.  If the kid wants to come back later, he's free to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many illegals are taxpayers.  You simply don't know what you are talking about here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Anyone is allowed to purchase anything they want in this country, as its a free country. Sales taxes don't count.
> 
> IF they are paying state and federal taxes they they are guilty of several other crimes other then being in this country illegally. They are stealing someones identity and illegal using their SS number.
Click to expand...



Sorry Sirene, wrong again.  they do have tax id numbers, perfectly legit.  Been paying taxes for years in anticipation of amnesty.  They work, they pay taxes, buy houses, etc..

You guys just assume they are stealing, dealing drugs, living on welfare.  Some do that but so do some Americans.


----------



## FifthColumn

Sarah G said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> Many illegals are taxpayers.  You simply don't know what you are talking about here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone is allowed to purchase anything they want in this country, as its a free country. Sales taxes don't count.
> 
> IF they are paying state and federal taxes they they are guilty of several other crimes other then being in this country illegally. They are stealing someones identity and illegal using their SS number.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Sirene, wrong again.  they do have tax id numbers, perfectly legit.  Been paying taxes for years in anticipation of amnesty.  They work, they pay taxes, buy houses, etc..
> 
> You guys just assume they are stealing, dealing drugs, living on welfare.  Some do that but so do some Americans.
Click to expand...


I guess they can buy houses without real ID because banks are filled with Hispanic employees that look the other way to help their buddies.


----------



## Sarah G

FifthColumn said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone is allowed to purchase anything they want in this country, as its a free country. Sales taxes don't count.
> 
> IF they are paying state and federal taxes they they are guilty of several other crimes other then being in this country illegally. They are stealing someones identity and illegal using their SS number.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Sirene, wrong again.  they do have tax id numbers, perfectly legit.  Been paying taxes for years in anticipation of amnesty.  They work, they pay taxes, buy houses, etc..
> 
> You guys just assume they are stealing, dealing drugs, living on welfare.  Some do that but so do some Americans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess they can buy houses without real ID because banks are filled with Hispanic employees that look the other way to help their buddies.
Click to expand...


They do have real id.


----------



## Tank

Why should Mexicans be such a burder for white folks to deal with?


----------



## Sarah G

Tank said:


> Why should Mexicans be such a burder for white folks to deal with?




Why are you such an idiot?


----------



## FifthColumn

Sarah G said:


> [
> Why are you such an idiot?



Because it was a job no Mexican wanted!!

Just kidding...!


----------



## Sarah G

FifthColumn said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal immagrants are not taxpayers.  They are criminals, thus the name illegals.
> 
> the child is an American, however the entire family should be sent back to thier country of origin.  If the kid wants to come back later, he's free to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many illegals are taxpayers.  You simply don't know what you are talking about here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Illegals aren't taxpayers UNLESS they file a taxform with the IRS. Do they?
Click to expand...


Yes they do.  That's where they get their tax id.


----------



## FifthColumn

Sarah G said:


> FifthColumn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> Many illegals are taxpayers.  You simply don't know what you are talking about here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illegals aren't taxpayers UNLESS they file a taxform with the IRS. Do they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes they do.  That's where they get their tax id.
Click to expand...


Are you saying that the majority of illegals pay their fair share of taxes?


----------



## Sarah G

FifthColumn said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FifthColumn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Illegals aren't taxpayers UNLESS they file a taxform with the IRS. Do they?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they do.  That's where they get their tax id.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you saying that the majority of illegals pay their fair share of taxes?
Click to expand...


A good percentage do.  I looked it up a couple of years ago, honestly not sure what the percentage is now.


----------



## FifthColumn

Sarah G said:


> [A good percentage do.  I looked it up a couple of years ago, honestly not sure what the percentage is now.



Did you know that in Latino neighborhoods, the majority of taxes that pay for their children schooling comes from outside the neighborhoods they live in. So innocent taxpayers are paying for children that may not even belong in the US. That is why the economy is tanking.


----------



## Sarah G

FifthColumn said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> [A good percentage do.  I looked it up a couple of years ago, honestly not sure what the percentage is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you know that in Latino neighborhoods, the majority of taxes that pay for their children schooling comes from outside the neighborhoods they live in. So innocent taxpayers are paying for children that may not even belong in the US. That is why the economy is tanking.
Click to expand...


That's pretty simplistic on your part.


----------



## Tank

Hispanics screw up their own countrys, what makes you think they won't do the same to America?


----------



## Ravi

Sarah G said:


> FifthColumn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> [A good percentage do.  I looked it up a couple of years ago, honestly not sure what the percentage is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you know that in Latino neighborhoods, the majority of taxes that pay for their children schooling comes from outside the neighborhoods they live in. So innocent taxpayers are paying for children that may not even belong in the US. That is why the economy is tanking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's pretty simplistic on your part.
Click to expand...

You think?


----------



## Sarah G

Ravi said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FifthColumn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you know that in Latino neighborhoods, the majority of taxes that pay for their children schooling comes from outside the neighborhoods they live in. So innocent taxpayers are paying for children that may not even belong in the US. That is why the economy is tanking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's pretty simplistic on your part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You think?
Click to expand...


I should have said _unbelievably_ simplistic.


----------



## FifthColumn

Sarah G said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's pretty simplistic on your part.
> 
> 
> 
> You think?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I should have said _unbelievably_ simplistic.
Click to expand...


Did someone once say the simplest explaination is often correct? What makes you think that those illegals walk into the US ready to work fulltime jobs that even Americans can't find?

How do those illegals live on less than minimum wage when a gallon of gas or a gallon of milk cost the same for Americans as well as illegals?

Why doesn't LA RAZA put out a pamphlet for gringos on how to live in the US on less than $50 a week?


----------



## Madeline

syrenn said:


> In my opinion babies of illegals are illegal births in this country. Any baby being born to and illegal in a hospital needs to be shipped out across the border the moment it comes out and not birth certificate is given. Just a record of a live birth.. If they have babies at home then the do not have a birth certificate either.
> 
> Babies of illegals should be given the same status as the mother. Illegal from what ever place she came from.



Applying this standard, I would not be considered an American myself.


----------



## Madeline

FifthColumn said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> [A good percentage do.  I looked it up a couple of years ago, honestly not sure what the percentage is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you know that in Latino neighborhoods, the majority of taxes that pay for their children schooling comes from outside the neighborhoods they live in. So innocent taxpayers are paying for children that may not even belong in the US. That is why the economy is tanking.
Click to expand...


Can we ratchet down the hysteria?  Illegal aliens did not cause the Great Recession....I think you can blame Wall Street for that.

Or would you like to tag them for global warming too?


----------



## FifthColumn

Madeline said:


> FifthColumn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> [A good percentage do.  I looked it up a couple of years ago, honestly not sure what the percentage is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you know that in Latino neighborhoods, the majority of taxes that pay for their children schooling comes from outside the neighborhoods they live in. So innocent taxpayers are paying for children that may not even belong in the US. That is why the economy is tanking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can we ratchet down the hysteria?  Illegal aliens did not cause the Great Recession....I think you can blame Wall Street for that.
> 
> Or would you like to tag them for global warming too?
Click to expand...


They are causing more damage to the US than many people will admit. You can't keep letting these people take over neighborhoods without some sort of backlash. They are getting taxpayer money that is reserved to help Latinos Only. Isn't that some sort of racism against all other Americans?


----------



## Madeline

FifthColumn said:


> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FifthColumn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you know that in Latino neighborhoods, the majority of taxes that pay for their children schooling comes from outside the neighborhoods they live in. So innocent taxpayers are paying for children that may not even belong in the US. That is why the economy is tanking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can we ratchet down the hysteria?  Illegal aliens did not cause the Great Recession....I think you can blame Wall Street for that.
> 
> Or would you like to tag them for global warming too?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are causing more damage to the US than many people will admit. You can't keep letting these people take over neighborhoods without some sort of backlash. They are getting taxpayer money that is reserved to help Latinos Only. Isn't that some sort of racism against all other Americans?
Click to expand...


I don't disagree illegal immigrants are terrible for the US and should be deported.   I'm fairly rigid about this.  

I just don't want to blame these people for trying to escape misery -- that seems natural to me.


----------



## traveler52

LilOlLady said:


> *Should we continue to give welfare to anchor babies even if it bankrupts our nation?*




Ask Michelle Malkin, she is after all an "*Anchor Baby*" as well.


----------



## Tank

Madeline said:


> I just don't want to blame these people for trying to escape misery -- that seems natural to me.  [/FONT]


The misery they try to escape, is the same misery they bring.


----------



## Harry Dresden

Tank said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> You call them anchor babies but what they are are Americans.
> 
> Choke on it.
> 
> 
> 
> They prefer to be call Mexican American, the word Mexican is always in front of the word American.
Click to expand...


and so does every other nationality....one of the biggest politically correct pieces of nonsense ever.....you never heard that kind of shit before the nineties....you were either an AMERICAN or you were not.....


----------



## Tank

The only two groups that insist on being called other then Americans, are blacks and Mexicans.

Calling them just Americans could provoke a fight.


----------



## LilOlLady

Ravi said:


> You call them *anchor babies *but what they are are *Americans*.
> 
> Choke on it.



*Anchor baby, Jack pot baby*, what ever.
They are only American by default. Actually they are  really "anchor babies." and always be anchor babies

*Anchor baby*
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, search 
"Anchor baby" is a term used in the United States to describe a child born in the U.S. to illegal aliens. It is generally used as a derogatory reference to the role of the child, who as a U.S. citizen through the legal principle of jus soli, may facilitate immigration for relatives through family reunification.[1][2][3][4][5] Family reunification, or family-based immigration, in the USA is a lengthy process and limited to categories prescribed by provisions of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965.[1]

The term* "anchor baby"* is a misnomer  *it implies that by having a baby in the US, temporary or illegal immigrants can "anchor" themselves in the US. *In fact, a US citizen child cannot file for a US visa for that citizen's parents until 21 years of age, and upon reaching that age, the citizen applicant* must also be earning at least 125% of the US poverty *threshold to be able to apply.[6] Thus, *temporary or illegal immigrants who have babies in the US have no means of remaining legally in the US*; they must return home and wait at least until the child reaches age 21. *Illegal immigrants usually cannot immigrate even after the child turns 21 since they usually face a multi-year or lifetime ban from immigration to the USA, regardless of sponsorship*.[7]

Anchor baby - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tell their parents they are not ANCHORS.


----------



## LilOlLady

FifthColumn said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> [A good percentage do.  I looked it up a couple of years ago, honestly not sure what the percentage is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you know that in Latino neighborhoods, the majority of taxes that pay for their children schooling comes from outside the neighborhoods they live in. So innocent taxpayers are paying for children that may not even belong in the US. That is why the economy is tanking.
Click to expand...

And usually drop out of school when they legally can. waste of tax payer's money.


----------



## LilOlLady

Sarah G said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> Many illegals are taxpayers.  You simply don't know what you are talking about here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone is allowed to purchase anything they want in this country, as its a free country. Sales taxes don't count.
> 
> IF they are paying state and federal taxes they they are guilty of several other crimes other then being in this country illegally. They are stealing someones identity and illegal using their SS number.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Sirene, wrong again.  they do have tax id numbers, perfectly legit.  Been paying taxes for years in anticipation of amnesty.  They work, they pay taxes, buy houses, etc..
> 
> You guys just assume they are stealing, dealing drugs, living on welfare.  Some do that but so do some Americans.
Click to expand...


We don't mind americans on welfare, etc.* they are our own*. Illegal are not they belong to Mexico.


----------



## LilOlLady

Madeline said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hit "edit" -- a window pops up and there's an option for deleting a post.
> 
> BTW, this surprises me greatly.  Don't you need ID to apply for TANF?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have IDs. And they are not applying for themselves, and they only need to prove there childeren are anchor babies. They are in the welfare offices, filling out application with the help of translaters. Welfare office is not allow to ask of their status in the country and illegal does not matter to the welfare office. The children are legal citizens and eligible for welfare.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So the family is awarded aid, but only enough for one child?
> 
> What an insane system.  God help us if these parents discover SSI.
Click to expand...


*Aid to Families with Dependent Children *(*AFDC)* was a federal assistance program in effect from 1935 to 1996, which was administered by the United States Department of Health and Human Services. This program provided financial *assistance to children *whose families had low or no income.[1]

This program grew from a minor part of the social security system to a significant system of welfare administered by the states with federal funding. However, it was criticized for *offering incentives for women to have children*, and for providing disincentives for women to join the workforce. In 1996, AFDC was replaced by the more restrictive *TANF* program.

*TANF* was created by the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act instituted under President Bill Clinton in 1996. The Act provides temporary financial assistance while aiming to get people off of that assistance, primarily through employment. There is *a maximum of 60 months of benefits within one's lifetime*, but some states have instituted shorter periods.[4] In enforcing *the 60-month time limit*, some states place *limits on the adult portion of the assistance only*, while* still aiding the otherwise eligible children in the household.* While on aid, there is a component requiring non-exempt clients to attempt to find employment. Unmarried minor parents have to live with a responsible adult or guardian. Paternity of children must be established in order to receive benefits. These requirements have led to massive drops in the number of people receiving cash benefits since 1996,[5] but there has been little change in the national poverty rate during this time.


----------



## LilOlLady

FifthColumn said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FifthColumn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Illegals aren't taxpayers UNLESS they file a taxform with the IRS. Do they?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they do.  That's where they get their tax id.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you saying that the majority of illegals pay their fair share of taxes?
Click to expand...


Being low wage earner, they pay very little in taxes if any, and get an unearned rebate???


----------



## Tank

Whatever they pay in tax's ain't worth the trouble


----------



## William Joyce

His win was the biggest tragedy of the 2010 Congressional elections.


----------



## American Horse

LilOlLady said:


> *Harry Reid: Illegal Aliens Don't Work on Construction Jobs in Nevada *http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzFfK5B6kLg
> 
> *Dems give scarce Nevada jobs to Illegal Immigrants *http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLvRoEkyS9c
> 
> *Harry Reid has dementia.*



That's true only if the economy there is so bad that there is no construction going on.

If there are carpenter/framers, block and brick masons, drywall hangers and finishers, stucco finishers, roofer/shinglers working there, there are Mexicans who speak very little or no Englsh working in those crews, and lots of them, just like here in Indiana.


----------



## Mad Scientist

Black is White, Up is Down, Night is Day!


----------



## Madeline

LilOlLady said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone is allowed to purchase anything they want in this country, as its a free country. Sales taxes don't count.
> 
> IF they are paying state and federal taxes they they are guilty of several other crimes other then being in this country illegally. They are stealing someones identity and illegal using their SS number.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Sirene, wrong again.  they do have tax id numbers, perfectly legit.  Been paying taxes for years in anticipation of amnesty.  They work, they pay taxes, buy houses, etc..
> 
> You guys just assume they are stealing, dealing drugs, living on welfare.  Some do that but so do some Americans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We don't mind americans on welfare, etc.* they are our own*. Illegal are not they belong to Mexico.
Click to expand...


How would an illegal alien get a tax ID number, Sarah?  Legally, I mean.


----------



## Speeddemon22

I agree with Madeline: Deportation is only half the solution -- the other half is helping Mexico up off its knees.  Mexicans should be safe and able to live decently in Mexico.  If they can't, this problem will never get solved.  The Mexican parents are fleeing conditions far worse than my folks fled when they left Scotland in the 1920's.  At least no one was shooting at them.  Demonizing Mexico's poor is not gonna get us anywhere.  If we don't aid Mexico to restore law and order and create opportunity for its people, they will never stop trying to enter the US.  Our own self-interest dictates we take some effective action.  I'm not a history buff, Tank, but I do believe Mexico has enjoyed greater peace and prosperity in the past.   Pretending their fate won't affect ours is whistling in the dark, not to mention turning our backs on our neighbor's suffering is inhumane.


In the past four years, more than 30,000 people have been killed in Mexico's battle against powerful drug cartels. The violence and corruption is now appearing in places that would have been unthinkable just a few years ago: places like Santiago, a quaint tourist town just a few hours from the U.S. border. 

Last August, Santiago's mayor, Edelmiro Cavazos, was kidnapped and killed. To understand what's happening in Mexico, you need to understand what happened in Santiago. There, and elsewhere around the country, drug cartels armed with guns and cash are forcing a choice on politicians and law enforcement. That choice - as beleaguered Mexicans put it - is between silver or lead: take a bribe or a bullet. 

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/


----------



## Speeddemon22

Here's a recent note from one cartel to the people of Nuevo Leon:

TO THE PEOPLE OF NUEVO LEON:

BE ADVISED THAT THE HACKING OF TELEDIARIO'S TWITTER ACCOUNT LAST WEEK WAS JUST THE BEGINNING OF CLEANING THE SCUM THAT ALSO EXISTS IN LOCAL MEDIA. 

TO THOSE WHO CLAIM TO BE JOURNALIZTZ, BE VERY CAREFUL, MEDIAS SUPPOSEDLY REPORT THE TRUTH, STOP LIEING AND SELLING YOURSELVES OUT. JOURNALISTS WHO CONTINUE TO TAKE MONEY FROM THE SCUM WILL ALSO FIND THEMSELVES IN SHIT.

WE BEGIN WITH MULTIMEDIOS BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONES DEEPEST IN SHIT. THEIR DEALINGS WILL BE MADE KNOWN.

YOU (MULTIMEDIOS) CONTINUE LYING TO THE CITIZENS THAT TRUST IN WHAT YOU SAY, NOT KNOWING THAT THEY HAVE BEEN DECEIVED, YOU DO NOT MEET YOUR OBLIGATIONS AND COMMUNICATE ONLY WHAT YOUR TRUE BOSSES TELL YOU TO.

TO ALL OF THE PEOPLE OF NUEVO LEON, DO NOT WORRY, SOON WE WILL INFORM YOU WITH THE RESULTS OF THE CLEANING WE HAVE BEEN DOING.

TAKE CARE AND BE SURE NOT TO SLIP ON THE BLOOD THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN SPILLED FROM THE "POLIZETAS".

CITIZENS OPEN YOUR EYES AND STOP IDOLIZING THOSE WHO HAVE BETRAYED THEIR TRUE RESPONSIBILITY, WHICH IS WITH YOU, STOP ALLOWING YOURSELVES TO BE FOOLED BY THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE ALSO BENEFITING FROM SCUM.

WE WANT TO CLEAN AND WE ARE GOING TO CLEAN UP THE ENTIRE TERRITORY, MEN AND WOMAN ALIKE, BE CAREFUL, BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT BE SAVED.

GET YOURSELVES IN LINE AND STOP BEING TWO FACED BECAUSE YOU ARE ALSO ALCOHOLICS AND DRUG ADDICTS.

PEOPLE OF NUEVO LEON, ALL OF YOU GOOD, HARDWORKING PEOPLE, HELP US. WE WANT TRUE PEACE, WITHOUT ZETAS. WE WILL NOT TOUCH INNOCENTS. UNDERSTAND THAT SOMEONE HAS TO DO SOMETHING FOR YOU TO RECOVER YOUR LAND.

RESPECTFULLY,
THE NEW FEDERATION
"TO LIVE BETTER"

Borderland Beat


----------



## Madeline

The entire country seems to be under a terror attack.


----------



## José

There was no "drug war" in Mexico in the 70's and 80's when Mexicans were jumping the fence by the millions forcing Reagan/Congress to approve a blanket legalization for them (hell, there wasn't even Nafta back then). 

I commend in the strongest terms Madeline and speeddemon's deep sense of compassion towards poor mexicans. They are giants of moral integrity who are light years ahead of the moral depravation of the typical super patriotic american clown ("*I only care for America and the rest of the world can starve to death*.")

But at the same time I have to be honest enough with myself and recognise that trying to raise the living standards in Mexico as a way to solve the immigration issue is unrealistic, unfeasible, quixotesque, pie in the sky, starry-eyed idealism, etc, etc...

America won't achieve in Mexico what it is already failing miserably to achieve in Iraq and Afghanistan (turn both nations into first world countries where people would not feel tempted to live in the US).

This proposal is indeed a code word for doing nothing about illegal immigration and as Tank said, allow Mexican poverty to cross the border. It is part of the problem not of the solution


----------



## Madeline

It's not my nature to accept that "nothing can be done", Jose'.  Seems to me, it'd be a step in the right direction to stop chanting that like a mantra.

Something HAS to be done.


----------



## Speeddemon22

José;3196433 said:
			
		

> There was no "drug war" in Mexico in the 70's and 80's when Mexicans were jumping the fence by the millions forcing Reagan/Congress to approve a blanket legalization for them (hell, there wasn't even Nafta back then).
> 
> I commend in the strongest terms Madeline and speeddemon's deep sense of compassion towards poor mexicans. They are giants of moral integrity who are light years ahead of the moral depravation of the typical super patriotic american clown ("*I only care for America and the rest of the world can starve to death*.")
> 
> But at the same time I have to be honest enough with myself and recognise that trying to raise the living standards in Mexico as a way to solve the immigration issue is unrealistic, unfeasible, quixotesque, pie in the sky, starry-eyed idealism, etc, etc...
> 
> America won't achieve in Mexico what it is already failing miserably to achieve in Iraq and Afghanistan (turn both nations into first world countries where people would not feel tempted to live in the US).
> 
> This proposal is indeed a code word for doing nothing about illegal immigration and as Tank said, allow Mexican poverty to cross the border. It is part of the problem not of the solution



I know what you're saying Jose, and you're right.  But Mexico's government is collapsing before our very eyes right now.  These cartels have the government by the balls and everyone knows it.  And if Mexico ever calls for help because it's gotten "past the point of no return" with the cartel violence, who do you think's going to go in there and do something?  It sure as Hell won't be Guatemala, Honduras, or El Salvedor.  No...WE are their only neighbor capable of helping them fight this vast, bloody war and if worse ever came to worst, we'd come to Mexico's rescue because we _cannot afford _to let their country collapse.

PS--I knew you had a good argument in you, Jose!  LOL


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *speeddemon*
> I know what you're saying Jose, and you're right. But Mexico's government is collapsing before our very eyes right now. These cartels have the government by the balls and everyone knows it. And if Mexico ever calls for help because it's gotten "past the point of no return" with the cartel violence, who do you think's going to go in there and do something? It sure as Hell won't be Guatemala, Honduras, or El Salvedor. No...WE are their only neighbor capable of helping them fight this vast, bloody war and if worse ever came to worst, we'd come to Mexico's rescue because we cannot afford to let their country collapse.
> 
> PS--I knew you had a good argument in you, Jose! LOL



I hear ya, demon. Mexico's collapse would be a calamity for America. Illegal immigration would undoubtedly increase a thousand fold (I personally don't see the Mexican state collapsing but this is the subject for another thread).

But make no mistake, Mexicans will continue to jump the fence by the millions with or without drug war, with or without NAFTA, with or without massive american economic aid. Economic aid to Mexico with the sole aim of preventing illegal immigration is a waste of American taxpayer's money.

So the USA would be wise to separate both issues (the issue of securing its borders/deportations AND the issue of economic/military aid to Mexico). 

Now we return to what I said to Madeline in a previous post: 

The political will to combat illegal immigration among american politicians and the necessary climate of social acceptance of mass deportations in the american society is simply not there *SO THINGS WILL REMAIN THE SAME AND ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WILL BE DONE*.


----------



## Madeline

You might could be right, Jose'.  But it's certain that nothing will be done if no one demands it.

You seem young to me, Jose'.  It's too soon to be so fatalistic, I would think.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Madeline*
> But it's certain that nothing will be done if no one demands it.



Now you're really preaching to the choir, Madeline : )

I have been saying for decades that the level of pressure put on american politicians by the *HUGE* part of the american people who oppose illegal immigration is too weak, insignificant to make them act.

There are so much pro illegal immigration economic interests in corporate America, political interests in W. DC and general apathy among part of the american population that only a drastic, extreme, overwhelming amount of public pressure will bring any significant change.

Maybe you have already seen one of my posts urging the american people to take to the streets and protest but in case you haven't here's a repost:


----------



## José

José;3097286 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *HereWeGoAgain*
> *And what drastic measures would you suggest?*
> 
> *So what is your solution? *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *OCT - 15 - 1969*​​
> *THE VIETNAM WAR MORATORIUM
> 
> MILLIONS OF AMERICANS TAKE TO THE STREETS TO PROTEST AGAINST THE VIETNAM WAR*​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *NOV - 20 - 1969*
Click to expand...


..................


----------



## José

What do I hear when I urge the american people to take drastic measures to fight illegal immigration like monster protests and giant street battles that helped end the american military involvement in Vietnam?

An endless parade of inane excuses from lazy, spineless people who don't want to do anything beside whining about illegal immigration on the Internet:

"I'm two busy raising my kids to participate in protests."

"The Vietnam War (*an issue that in no way posed an existential threat to America*) was much more importants than the issue of illegal immigration (*an issue that definitely does*)".

etc, etc, etc,...

I know it's cruel to say this but when I see such a huge apathy and innaction I *almost* think the american people deserve to see their country split in half by Aztlan or become a third world nation.

But "almost" is the key word. I'm not THAT mean. : )


----------



## José

And one more thing, Madeline.

As I said in my first post the necessary social climate in America to make your wish come true, to deport millions of illegal immigrants does not presently exist.

But social climates can't be changed!!!!

Let's take my Vietnam analogy as an example:

In 1965 the social climate to end the Vietnam War did not exist but thanks to millions of american civilians who participated in mega protests, fought huge street battles and even died in protests and campuses that social climate was created in 69, 70, 71.

The same thing can happen in 21th century America regarding mass deportations...

But the american people must be willing to pay the price for this to happen:

Weekends spent away from family participating in protests and even in jails, broken ribs, broken teeth and perhaps even some deaths, unfortunately.

As Americans themselves like to say:

*NO PAIN, NO GAIN.*


----------



## FifthColumn

José;3196828 said:
			
		

> And one more thing, Madeline.
> 
> As I said in my first post the necessary social climate in America to make your wish come true, to deport millions of illegal immigrants does not presently exist.
> 
> But social climates can't be changed!!!!
> 
> Let's take my Vietnam analogy as an example:
> 
> In 1965 the social climate to end the Vietnam War did not exist but thanks to millions of american civilians who participated in mega protests, fought huge street battles and even died in protests and campuses that social climate was created in 69, 70, 71.
> 
> The same thing can happen in 21th century America regarding mass deportations...
> 
> But the american people must be willing to pay the price for this to happen:
> 
> Weekends spent away from family participating in protests and even in jails, broken ribs, broken teeth and perhaps even some deaths, unfortunately.
> 
> As Americans themselves like to say:
> 
> *NO PAIN, NO GAIN.*



It would be easier to kick LA RAZA in the ass to stir up the Latino hornet's nest. Once American politicians see Latinos rioting in the streets, the demand to throw them out of the US will be easier because this can be shown to the rest of the world. 

They are an invading army and a threat to the safety of the world's future when the possibility that they could get their hands on America's nuclear arsenal is revealed.


----------



## José

Kick La Raza in the ass means violence against Latinos but this would put you in the company of Bin Laden.


----------



## José

I'm fully aware my message is not popular with the members of the US Message Board.

They like to read messages that point the finger of blame at others:

The US government (*correctly*)

The Mexican government (*gross injustice*)

The illegal immigrants themselves (*open for debate*)

etc, etc, etc...

Then all of a sudden this son of a road whore named José appears out of the blue, pointing the finger of blame to them?

"*What?!?!? Am I responsible for the immigration problem in America?!?!*"

Not exactly. You're responsible for not applying the necessary pressure on the US government to make it enforce the law.


----------



## Harry Dresden

Tank said:


> The only two groups that insist on being called other then Americans, are blacks and Mexicans.
> 
> Calling them just Americans could provoke a fight.



bullshit.....the Mexicans i work with who were born here dont think so.....calling them Mexicans gets them riled up more....because it implies you are saying they are part of the "ILLEGAL" crowd.....and many of them dont think to highly of their southern cousins....


----------



## José

Dresden...

I wonder how many of your coworkers are themselves the children and grandchildren of at least one hispanic who entered the US illegally or overstayed his/her visa.

Can they all trace their ancestry back to the 19th century Californios?

Would they even be Americans if it weren't for their fence jumper ancestors?


----------



## FifthColumn

José;3197136 said:
			
		

> Kick La Raza in the ass means violence against Latinos but this would put you in the company of Bin Laden.



Where did you get that idea? LA RAZA is a terrorist group started by Latinos to be a "go-between" when dealing with the US government. That's where the funds get sent when you want to keep them quiet. Follow the money and you'll see I'm right.


----------



## FifthColumn

José;3197148 said:
			
		

> I'm fully aware my message is not popular with the members of the US Message Board.
> 
> They like to read messages that point the finger of blame at others:
> 
> The US government (*correctly*)
> 
> The Mexican government (*gross injustice*)
> 
> The illegal immigrants themselves (*open for debate*)
> 
> etc, etc, etc...
> 
> Then all of a sudden this son of a road whore named José appears out of the blue, pointing the finger of blame to them?
> 
> "*What?!?!? Am I responsible for the immigration problem in America?!?!*"
> 
> Not exactly. You're responsible for not applying the necessary pressure on the US government to make it enforce the law.



Why not just bill Latin America for all the services that had been provided to the illegals? When they see they're going to have to pay 10 times the amount it cost to have their people in the US instead of their own plague invested ghettos, they will welcome them back.


----------



## Jackson

No welfare for anchor babies.  No NO No


----------



## Jackson

Right Senator.  You can go back to sleep, now.


----------



## chikenwing

The guy is beyond laughing.


----------



## strollingbones

anchor baby = us citizen with foreign parents


----------



## Harry Dresden

José;3197200 said:
			
		

> Dresden...
> 
> I wonder how many of your coworkers are themselves the children and grandchildren of at least one hispanic who entered the US illegally or overstayed his/her visa.
> 
> Can they all trace their ancestry back to the 19th century Californios?
> 
> Would they even be Americans if it weren't for their fence jumper ancestors?


*

I wonder how many of your coworkers are themselves the children and grandchildren of at least one hispanic who entered the US illegally or overstayed his/her visa.
*

you can probably say that about a hell of a lot of Americans Jose.......but thats besides the point.....back in the early 1900's the small amount who came over were hardly noticed......look at the amount today.....now they are having an impact on our society.....*and that is the point*.....if things were reversed and Mexico was like the US and we like them and we were going down there and overwhelming some of their Services.....IM SURE THEY WOULD NOT BE TO HAPPY with those fucking Gringos.....now tell me im wrong about my last statement....


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Harry Dresden*
> you can probably say that about a hell of a lot of Americans Jose.......but thats besides the point.....back in the early 1900's the small amount who came over were hardly noticed......look at the amount today.....now they are having an impact on our society.....and that is the point.....if things were reversed and Mexico was like the US and we like them and we were going down there and overwhelming some of their Services.....IM SURE THEY WOULD NOT BE TO HAPPY with those fucking Gringos.....now tell me im wrong about my last statement....



I agree with everything you said, Harry but now I'm gonna ask you an apparently off-topic question that will surprise you.

Have you ever heard of Cesar Millan aka *The Dog Whisperer*, the most famous dog trainer in the world? Millan crossed the Mexican-US border illegally when he was 21. If someone asked him about his views on illegal immigration he'd probably say something like this (if he decided to be really honest):

"*I was in favor of illegal immigration right up until the moment I crossed the border. The moment I was safe and sound in America the US government could have closed it for good for all I care.*"

And this kind of personal opinion is shared by thousands of legal hispanic-americans, Harry, perhaps even some of your coworkers. They all oppose illegal immigration *FOR OTHER HISPANICS*, but not for them or their parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc... If they were under any threat of losing their legal status you'd see them changing their opinon overnight.

And I don't really blame them for having this selfish, opportunist outlook. It's human nature to think that way, to be indulgent with oneself and one's family and incredibly harsh on others. That's why I don't give much credit to "'*THE MAJORITY OF CHICANOS OPPOSE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION*" argument. It says much more about human nature than about firmly held opinions.

But make no mistake, you'll have a hard time finding a Latino more suportive immigration laws than me. I just happen to despise this particular argument.

Just think about it, a guy who posts message after message, photo after photo of the Vietnam mass protests exorting the american people to follow the example of their parents and grandparents cannot exactly be considered pro illegal immigration, don't you agree?


----------



## FifthColumn

Why not put the Mexicans that are here to good use. 

Remember the movie "Soylent Green"?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sp-VFBbjpE[/ame]


----------



## José

FifthColumn said:


> Why not put the Mexicans that are here to good use.
> 
> Remember the movie "Soylent Green"?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sp-VFBbjpE



Dude, if you want to commit suicide that bad just gobble up 10 pounds of lard a day and in less than a week you'll have your heart attack without having to resort to cannibalism.


----------



## LilOlLady

José;3196811 said:
			
		

> What do I hear when I urge the american people to take drastic measures to fight illegal immigration like monster protests and giant street battles that helped end the american military involvement in Vietnam?
> 
> An endless parade of inane excuses from lazy, spineless people who don't want to do anything beside whining about illegal immigration on the Internet:
> 
> "*I'm two busy raising my kids to participate in protests."*
> "The Vietnam War (*an issue that in no way posed an existential threat to America*) was much more importants than the issue of illegal immigration (*an issue that definitely does*)".
> 
> etc, etc, etc,...
> 
> I know it's cruel to say this but when I see such a huge apathy and innaction I *almost* think the american people deserve to see their country split in half by Aztlan or become a third world nation.
> 
> But "almost" is the key word. I'm not THAT mean. : )



Your kids are the best reason WHY you sould be our protesting. They have no future if this country goes to pot and it is with the massive influx of poverty. Poverty means some one have to subsidize them and you children will be the subsidizers.


----------



## LilOlLady

*America Becomes Mexicos Outsourced Welfare System *
5/10/2010  B. Chrysostom -

We often hear the left and liberals claim that illegal immigrants, especially those from Mexico, only come here to work. Unfortunately, an increasingly larger percentage of those who break the law and enter the country illegally come here *solely to benefit from Americas generous social welfare system, free healthcare provided to anyone that walks into an emergency room, and the many free government programs*.

Take a look at the chart provided (courtesy of Stand with Arizona). It shows that* Mexican immigrants use Americas social services at multiples not only to native-born Americans, but other immigrants as wellusing more than TWICE the amount of total welfare as native-born Americans.* This gives one an idea why Mexico has such an enormous financial stake in defeating Arizonas SB1070 law and its citizens attempts to secure the border, reduce crime, protect law abiding legal residents, and enforce the countrys immigration laws. 

Since most states, especially California, *do not require proof of citizenship or legal residency for claiming these benefits*, millions of illegal immigrants have gotten on the government dole and have swelled the ranks of the welfare rolls. The situation has reached catastrophic conditions and is getting worse. *The massive drain on most Southwestern states has driven many state budgets to the edge of bankruptcy*.

The tens of billions of dollars (could even be hundreds of billions) America is forced to spend is money and resources that Mexico should be allocating for its citizens. But Mexicos corrupt government gets a free pass. They flood the US with individuals who do not come here to integrate into society and contribute, but to *demand government assistance and live off the hard work and generosity of Americans.*

http://conservativedatingsite.com/blog/2010/05/america-becomes-mexicos-outsourced-welfare-system/


----------



## Madeline

And if ever they get Amnesty, those numbers will explode.

Mebbe we should sue Mexico?


----------



## LilOlLady

Friday, 15 October, 1999, 12:30 GMT 13:30 UK 
*Mexico's welfare revolution*

BBC News | CROSSING CONTINENTS | Mexico's welfare revolution


----------



## LilOlLady

Tuesday, June 15, 1999 Published at 15:09 GMT 16:09 UK 


World: Americas

*Mexico receives large financial aid package [/B
]Mexico is to receive almost twenty-four billion dollars in financial aid from international agencies. 

The funds are intended to help Mexico guard against any financial crisis during the next eighteen months, when the administration of President Ernesto Zedillo ends and fresh elections are to be held. 

The main sources for the aid are the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, and the Inter-American Development Bank. 

From the newsroom of the BBC World Service


BBC News | Americas | Mexico receives large financial aid package*


----------



## LilOlLady

Sunday, May 30, 2010
*WE ARE MEXICO'S WELFARE SYSTEM.... A Glimpse... 
STUDY OF MEXICANS FEEDING OFF THE AMERICAN GRAVY TRAIN*:

Jose Herria emigrated illegally from Mexico to Stockton, Calif., in 1997 to work as a fruit picker. He brought with him his wife, Felipa, and three children, 19, 12 and 8  all illegals. When Felipa gave birth to her fourth child, daughter Flor, the family had what is referred to as an "anchor baby"  an American citizen by birth who provided the entire Silverio clan a ticket to remain in the U.S. permanently. But Flor was born premature, spent three months in the neonatal incubator and cost the San Joaquin Hospital more than $300,000. Meanwhile, oldest daughter Lourdes married an illegal alien gave birth to a daughter, too. Her name is Esmeralda. And Felipa had yet another child, Cristian. The two Silverio anchor babies generate $1,000 per month in public welfare funding for the family. Flor gets $600 a month for asthma. Healthy Cristian gets $400. While the Silverios earned $18,000 last year picking fruit, they picked up another $12,000 for their two "anchor babies." While President Bush says the U.S. needs more "cheap labor" from south of the border to do jobs Americans aren't willing to do, the case of the Silverios shows there are indeed uncalculated costs involved in the importation of such labor  public support and uninsured medical costs. In fact, the increasing number of illegal aliens coming into the United States is forcing the closure of hospitals, spreading previously vanquished diseases and threatening to destroy America's prized health-care system, says a report in the spring issue of the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons. "The influx of illegal aliens has serious hidden medical consequences," writes Madeleine Pelner Cosman, author of the report. "We judge reality primarily by what we see. But what we do not see can be more dangerous, more expensive, and more deadly than what is seen." According to her study, 84 California hospitals are closing their doors as a direct result of the rising number of illegal aliens and their non-reimbursed tax on the system. "Anchor babies," the author writes, "born to illegal aliens instantly qualify as citizens for welfare benefits and have caused enormous rises in Medicaid costs and stipends under Supplemental Security Income and Disability Income." In addition, the report says, "many illegal aliens harbor fatal diseases that American medicine fought and vanquished long ago, such as drug-resistant tuberculosis, malaria, leprosy, plague, polio, dengue, and Chagas disease." While politicians often mention there are 43 million without health insurance in this country, the report estimates that at least 25 percent of those are illegal immigrants. The figure could be as high as 50 percent. Not being insured does not mean they don't get medical care. Under the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act of 1985, hospitals are obligated to treat the uninsured without reimbursement. "Government imposes viciously stiff fines and penalties on any physician and any hospital refusing to treat any patient that a zealous prosecutor deems an emergency patient, even though the hospital or physician screened and declared the patient's illness or injury non-emergency," says the report. "But government pays neither hospital nor physician for treatments. In addition to the fiscal attack on medical facilities and personnel, EMTALA is a handy truncheon with which to pummel politically unpopular physicians by falsely accusing them of violating EMTALA." According to the report, between 1993 and 2003, 60 California hospitals closed because half their services became unpaid. Another 24 California hospitals verge on closure, the author writes. "American hospitals welcome 'anchor babies,'" says the report. "Illegal alien women come to the hospital in labor and drop their little anchors, each of whom pulls its illegal alien mother, father, and siblings into permanent residency simply by being born within our borders. Anchor babies are citizens, and instantly qualify for public welfare aid: Between 300,000 and 350,000 anchor babies annually become citizens because of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside." Among the organizations directing illegal aliens into America's medical systems, according to the report, are the Ford Foundation-funded Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund, the National Immigration Law Center, the American Immigration Lawyers Association, the American Bar Association's Commission on Imm

The Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons report includes *a strong prescription for protecting the health of Americans:* Closing America's borders with fences, high-tech security devices and troops. Rescinding the U.S. citizenship of "anchor babies." Punishing the aiding and abetting of illegal aliens as a crime. An end to amnesty programs. 

http://mexicanoccupation.blogspot.com/2010/05/we-are-mexicos-welfare-system-glimpse.htm


----------



## Madeline

Mexico clearly needs help, LilOlLady.


----------



## LilOlLady

Pima County Sheriff; Arizona Immigration Law

Law enforcers has taken as oath to enforce the law and when they refuse to enforce the law they are breaking the law. Pima County Sheriff refuse to enforce Arizona immigration law and should be relieved  of his duty as sheriff. He is obviously not doing the job he was hired to do. If its the law to enquire of ones legal status if stopped during a traffic violation and one does not have proper documents and is Hispanic looking, that is reasonable suspicion to suspect they may be in the country illegally. 

Its people like him that contribute to 20 million illegal aiens in this country. When border patrols agents are busting their butts and putting their lives on the line 24-7 trying to stop illegal immigration and drug smuggling. 

He and others like him is the reason Arizona is in a state of emergency with it come to illegal aliens and crime. There should not be any liberal in office in Arizona government at all. In states where liberal are in charges, the state is almost bankrupt will illegal aliens.

If you dont like being called an illegal alien dont enter the country illegally. Dont be an illegal alien.


----------



## Angelhair

_Sheriff DOPEniks should resign!  And if the people in AZ are dumb enough to vote for him again, then they deserve what they get - more violence coming across that border and more discontent.  He was foolish enough to go public during the SB1070 Bill that he would NOT follow it if made into law - that ALONE should be grounds for kicking him out of his position!_


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *LilOlLady*
> The tens of billions of dollars (could even be hundreds of billions) America is forced to spend is money and resources that Mexico should be allocating for its citizens. But Mexicos corrupt government gets a free pass. They flood the US with individuals who do not come here to integrate into society and contribute, but to demand government assistance and live off the hard work and generosity of Americans.



*LilOlLady, YOU MENTALLY RETARDED SUPER PATRIOTIC AMERICAN CLOWN FROM HELL!!!!

MEXICO'S GOVERNMENT DOES NOT FLOOD THE USA!! INDIVIDUAL MEXICAN CITIZENS DECIDE TO LEAVE MEXICO OF THEIR OWN ACCORD AND ON THEIR OWN DIME!!!!

MEXICO, BEING A DEMOCRATIC INSTEAD OF A TOTALITARIAN STATE LIKE NORTH KOREA, HAS THE OBLIGATION TO LET THEM LEAVE!!!!

AND HOW IN THE WORLD IS MEXICO SUPPOSED TO "ALLOCATE MONEY AND RESOURCES FOR ITS CITIZENS" IF THEY DO NOT FIND THEMSELVES IN MEXICAN TERRITORY, IF THE US GOVERNMENT DOESN'T DO SHIT TO ARREST AND REPATRIATE THEM??

YOU LILOLLADY, ARE THE TYPICAL MORALLY DEPRAVED SUPER PATRIOTIC AMERICAN CLOWN WHO'S ALWAYS LOOKING FOR FOREIGNERS TO USE AS ESCAPEGOATS IN ORDER TO SHARE THE BLAME THAT BELONGS ENTIRELY TO THE US GOVERNMENT AND ITS PORNOGRAPHIC DERELICTION OF DUTY!!!*


----------



## High_Gravity

José;3203363 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *LilOlLady*
> The tens of billions of dollars (could even be hundreds of billions) America is forced to spend is money and resources that Mexico should be allocating for its citizens. But Mexicos corrupt government gets a free pass. They flood the US with individuals who do not come here to integrate into society and contribute, but to demand government assistance and live off the hard work and generosity of Americans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *LilOlLady, YOU MENTALLY RETARDED SUPER PATRIOTIC AMERICAN CLOWN FROM HELL!!!!
> 
> MEXICO'S GOVERNMENT DOES NOT FLOOD THE USA!! INDIVIDUAL MEXICAN CITIZENS DECIDE TO LEAVE MEXICO OF THEIR OWN ACCORD AND ON THEIR OWN DIME!!!!
> 
> MEXICO, BEING A DEMOCRATIC INSTEAD OF A TOTALITARIAN STATE LIKE NORTH KOREA, HAS THE OBLIGATION TO LET THEM LEAVE!!!!
> 
> AND HOW IN THE WORLD IS MEXICO SUPPOSED TO "ALLOCATE MONEY AND RESOURCES FOR ITS CITIZENS" IF THEY DO NOT FIND THEMSELVES IN MEXICAN TERRITORY, IF THE US GOVERNMENT DOESN'T DO SHIT TO ARREST AND REPATRIATE THEM??
> 
> YOU LILOLLADY, ARE THE TYPICAL MORALLY DEPRAVED SUPER PATRIOTIC AMERICAN CLOWN WHO'S ALWAYS LOOKING FOR FOREIGNERS TO USE AS ESCAPEGOATS IN ORDER TO SHARE THE BLAME THAT BELONGS ENTIRELY TO THE US GOVERNMENT AND ITS PORNOGRAPHIC DERELICTION OF DUTY!!!*
Click to expand...


Pornographic direliction? sounds like a good name for a skin flick.


----------



## ABikerSailor

LilOlLady said:


> *America Becomes Mexicos Outsourced Welfare System *
> 5/10/2010  B. Chrysostom -
> 
> We often hear the left and liberals claim that illegal immigrants, especially those from Mexico, only come here to work. Unfortunately, an increasingly larger percentage of those who break the law and enter the country illegally come here *solely to benefit from Americas generous social welfare system, free healthcare provided to anyone that walks into an emergency room, and the many free government programs*.
> 
> Take a look at the chart provided (courtesy of Stand with Arizona). It shows that* Mexican immigrants use Americas social services at multiples not only to native-born Americans, but other immigrants as wellusing more than TWICE the amount of total welfare as native-born Americans.* This gives one an idea why Mexico has such an enormous financial stake in defeating Arizonas SB1070 law and its citizens attempts to secure the border, reduce crime, protect law abiding legal residents, and enforce the countrys immigration laws.
> 
> Since most states, especially California, *do not require proof of citizenship or legal residency for claiming these benefits*, millions of illegal immigrants have gotten on the government dole and have swelled the ranks of the welfare rolls. The situation has reached catastrophic conditions and is getting worse. *The massive drain on most Southwestern states has driven many state budgets to the edge of bankruptcy*.
> 
> The tens of billions of dollars (could even be hundreds of billions) America is forced to spend is money and resources that Mexico should be allocating for its citizens. But Mexicos corrupt government gets a free pass. They flood the US with individuals who do not come here to integrate into society and contribute, but to *demand government assistance and live off the hard work and generosity of Americans.*
> 
> http://conservativedatingsite.com/blog/2010/05/america-becomes-mexicos-outsourced-welfare-system/



Hey Big Old Bitch, what the fuck are you spewing about from A CONSERVATIVE DATING SITE!!!

What's the deal, are ya looking for other racists such as yourself to raise your own little KKK clan?

Face it chick, you're not even a decent life support system for a pussy.


----------



## Harry Dresden

José;3201876 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *Harry Dresden*
> you can probably say that about a hell of a lot of Americans Jose.......but thats besides the point.....back in the early 1900's the small amount who came over were hardly noticed......look at the amount today.....now they are having an impact on our society.....and that is the point.....if things were reversed and Mexico was like the US and we like them and we were going down there and overwhelming some of their Services.....IM SURE THEY WOULD NOT BE TO HAPPY with those fucking Gringos.....now tell me im wrong about my last statement....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with everything you said, Harry but now I'm gonna ask you an apparently off-topic question that will surprise you.
> 
> Have you ever heard of Cesar Millan aka *The Dog Whisperer*, the most famous dog trainer in the world? Millan crossed the Mexican-US border illegally when he was 21. If someone asked him about his views on illegal immigration he'd probably say something like this (if he decided to be really honest):
> 
> "*I was in favor of illegal immigration right up until the moment I crossed the border. The moment I was safe and sound in America the US government could have closed it for good for all I care.*"
> 
> And this kind of personal opinion is shared by thousands of legal hispanic-americans, Harry, perhaps even some of your coworkers. They all oppose illegal immigration *FOR OTHER HISPANICS*, but not for them or their parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc... If they were under any threat of losing their legal status you'd see them changing their opinon overnight.
> 
> And I don't really blame them for having this selfish, opportunist outlook. It's human nature to think that way, to be indulgent with oneself and one's family and incredibly harsh on others. That's why I don't give much credit to "'*THE MAJORITY OF CHICANOS OPPOSE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION*" argument. It says much more about human nature than about firmly held opinions.
> 
> But make no mistake, you'll have a hard time finding a Latino more suportive immigration laws than me. I just happen to despise this particular argument.
> 
> Just think about it, a guy who posts message after message, photo after photo of the Vietnam mass protests exorting the american people to follow the example of their parents and grandparents cannot exactly be considered pro illegal immigration, don't you agree?
Click to expand...


Jose....since we were talking about this i decided to get the conversation with a couple of these guys today at work to talk about Illegals......the biggest gripe they seemed to have is the "newcomers" not willing to speak English or blend into the new Country....we have a Girl carrier born in Mexico now a Citizen...she speaks great English....but only speaks Spanish to her 2 young kids,hence they dont know English very well.....she said its not her job....its the Schools job to teach her kids English....this is what a couple of the American born guys pointed out to me.....they think she is an ass for having that Attitude....i got to agree....


----------



## SW2SILVER

Oh, yes, Sheriff Dupnik. "Mr. Vitriol" HIMSELF. Too busy worrying about how to muzzle free speech than worry about enforcing  laws that could have prevented a massacre. Yeah, what a hero he is. We don't need opinionated blustering blowhards like this chap in law enforcement picking and choosing what laws they personally will and will not enforce.


----------



## Intense

SW2SILVER said:


> Oh, yes, Sheriff Dupnik. "Mr. Vitriol" HIMSELF. Too busy worrying about how to muzzle free speech than worry about enforcing  laws that could have prevented a massacre. Yeah, what a hero he is. We don't need opinionated blustering blowhards like this chap in law enforcement picking and choosing what laws they personally will and will not enforce.



Damn! He is almost acting like a Fed!!! Where would he get such notions?


----------



## FifthColumn

Harry Dresden said:


> [....we have a Girl carrier born in Mexico now a Citizen...she speaks great English....but only speaks Spanish to her 2 young kids,hence they dont know English very well.....she said its not her job....its the Schools job to teach her kids English....this is what a couple of the American born guys pointed out to me.....they think she is an ass for having that Attitude....i got to agree....



Shouldn't that be considered "child abuse"?


----------



## LilOlLady

Harry Dresden said:


> José;3201876 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *Harry Dresden*
> you can probably say that about a hell of a lot of Americans Jose.......but thats besides the point.....back in the early 1900's the small amount who came over were hardly noticed......look at the amount today.....now they are having an impact on our society.....and that is the point.....if things were reversed and Mexico was like the US and we like them and we were going down there and overwhelming some of their Services.....IM SURE THEY WOULD NOT BE TO HAPPY with those fucking Gringos.....now tell me im wrong about my last statement....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with everything you said, Harry but now I'm gonna ask you an apparently off-topic question that will surprise you.
> 
> Have you ever heard of Cesar Millan aka *The Dog Whisperer*, the most famous dog trainer in the world? Millan crossed the Mexican-US border illegally when he was 21. If someone asked him about his views on illegal immigration he'd probably say something like this (if he decided to be really honest):
> 
> "*I was in favor of illegal immigration right up until the moment I crossed the border. The moment I was safe and sound in America the US government could have closed it for good for all I care.*"
> 
> And this kind of personal opinion is shared by thousands of legal hispanic-americans, Harry, perhaps even some of your coworkers. They all oppose illegal immigration *FOR OTHER HISPANICS*, but not for them or their parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc... If they were under any threat of losing their legal status you'd see them changing their opinon overnight.
> 
> And I don't really blame them for having this selfish, opportunist outlook. It's human nature to think that way, to be indulgent with oneself and one's family and incredibly harsh on others. That's why I don't give much credit to "'*THE MAJORITY OF CHICANOS OPPOSE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION*" argument. It says much more about human nature than about firmly held opinions.
> 
> But make no mistake, you'll have a hard time finding a Latino more suportive immigration laws than me. I just happen to despise this particular argument.
> 
> Just think about it, a guy who posts message after message, photo after photo of the Vietnam mass protests exorting the american people to follow the example of their parents and grandparents cannot exactly be considered pro illegal immigration, don't you agree?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jose....since we were talking about this i decided to get the conversation with a couple of these guys today at work to talk about Illegals......the biggest gripe they seemed to have is the *"newcomers" not willing to speak English *or blend into the new Country....we have a Girl carrier born in Mexico now a Citizen...she speaks great English....but only speaks Spanish to her *2 young kids,hence they dont know English *very well.....she said its not her job....its the Schools job to teach her kids English....this is what a couple of the American born guys pointed out to me.....they think she is an ass for having that Attitude....i got to agree....
Click to expand...


It should be a required that in order to enter the country or enter school, to be able to speak English. The cost of teaching them English is humongous and it take time away from teaching basics. The cost to taxpayers.

*Rapidly Rising Cost of Teaching English to Illegal Aliens*
Rapidly Rising Cost of Teaching English to Illegal Aliens


----------



## LilOlLady

Angelhair said:


> _Sheriff DOPEniks should resign!  And if the people in AZ are dumb enough to vote for him again, then they deserve what they get - more violence coming across that border and more discontent.  He was foolish enough to go public during the SB1070 Bill that he would NOT follow it if made into law - that ALONE should be grounds for kicking him out of his position!_



SB1070 is law. Parts were blocked but the rest stands.


Arizona immigration law 2010: *As SB1070 takes effect*, Mexicans say 'Adios, Arizona' 
Arizona immigration law targeting immigrants has already encouraged Mexicans to begin *returning home*, even as a *US judge halted key portions *of SB1070 from taking effect. The Mexico government is boosting legal services in Arizona, and *shelters in Sonora state are preparing for an influx*. 
Arizona immigration law 2010: As SB1070 takes effect, Mexicans say 'Adios, Arizona' - CSMonitor.com


----------



## MajinLink

He should be given a medal for not enforcing such a facist and racist law straight out of Nazi Germany


----------



## LilOlLady

*Local Sherrif calls SB1070 a &#8220;racist law.&#8221;*12:00 pm By la Macha · arizona




*Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik* tells KGUN9 News that SB 1070, Arizona&#8217;s crackdown on illegal immigration, is a *&#8220;racist law,&#8221; *and says *he has no intention of complying with it.* In doing so, Dupnik becomes the first major local law enforcement official to officially *rebel against the bill *since Governor Jan Brewer signed it into law on Friday.

Dupnik told KGUN9&#8242;s Steve Nunez that the law is *&#8220;disgusting&#8221; and &#8220;unnecessary.&#8221; *Dupnik said his deputies plan to keep on doing what they&#8217;ve always done. He said when *illegal immigrants wind up in his custody,* his deputies will *detain them for federal agents*, but will *not take them to the county jail.*

Dupnik said he realizes that, under the terms of SB 1070, *he could get sued for failing to comply with the law.* But he indicated that&#8217;s *a risk he&#8217;s willing to take*. Dupnik insisted that *federal law supersedes state law*.

Local Sherrif calls SB1070 a &#8220;racist law.&#8221; | VivirLatino


Federal Immigration law is harder than SB1070 on illegals. Fire his *ASS ASAP*



Arizona Immigration Law *Identical to Federal Laws *Requiring Alien Documentation, Says Attorney 
One of the men who helped craft Arizona's new immigration law said he's confident the *legislation will withstand any legal challenges,* because it specifically addresses the&nbsp;issues that are likely to form the basis of state or federal lawsuits.
Wednesday, May 05, 2010 
Arizona Immigration Law Identical to Federal Laws Requiring Alien Documentation, Says Attorney | CNSnews.com


----------



## LilOlLady

Zona said:


> My ancestors came here as illegals on *slave ships*.  Dammit, by proxy *I am an illegal*! This sucks.





The 14th Amendment gave them citizenship. So legally you are not illegal. Maybe it do suck.


----------



## theHawk

This is what happens when you put liberal hacks in positions of power.


----------



## LilOlLady

ABikerSailor said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *America Becomes Mexicos Outsourced Welfare System *
> 5/10/2010  B. Chrysostom -
> 
> We often hear the left and liberals claim that illegal immigrants, especially those from Mexico, only come here to work. Unfortunately, an increasingly larger percentage of those who break the law and enter the country illegally come here *solely to benefit from Americas generous social welfare system, free healthcare provided to anyone that walks into an emergency room, and the many free government programs*.
> 
> Take a look at the chart provided (courtesy of Stand with Arizona). It shows that* Mexican immigrants use Americas social services at multiples not only to native-born Americans, but other immigrants as wellusing more than TWICE the amount of total welfare as native-born Americans.* This gives one an idea why Mexico has such an enormous financial stake in defeating Arizonas SB1070 law and its citizens attempts to secure the border, reduce crime, protect law abiding legal residents, and enforce the countrys immigration laws.
> 
> Since most states, especially California, *do not require proof of citizenship or legal residency for claiming these benefits*, millions of illegal immigrants have gotten on the government dole and have swelled the ranks of the welfare rolls. The situation has reached catastrophic conditions and is getting worse. *The massive drain on most Southwestern states has driven many state budgets to the edge of bankruptcy*.
> 
> The tens of billions of dollars (could even be hundreds of billions) America is forced to spend is money and resources that Mexico should be allocating for its citizens. But Mexicos corrupt government gets a free pass. They flood the US with individuals who do not come here to integrate into society and contribute, but to *demand government assistance and live off the hard work and generosity of Americans.*
> 
> http://conservativedatingsite.com/blog/2010/05/america-becomes-mexicos-outsourced-welfare-system/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Big Old Bitch, what the fuck are you spewing about from A CONSERVATIVE DATING SITE!!!
> 
> What's the deal, are ya looking for other racists such as yourself to raise your own little KKK clan?
> 
> Face it chick, you're not even a decent life support system for a pussy.
Click to expand...


*YOU really need to take your meds.*


----------



## High_Gravity

Can we at least keep the Latinas?


----------



## LilOlLady

José;3203363 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *LilOlLady*
> The tens of billions of dollars (could even be hundreds of billions) America is forced to spend is money and resources that Mexico should be allocating for its citizens. But Mexico&#8217;s corrupt government gets a free pass. They flood the US with individuals who do not come here to integrate into society and contribute, but to demand government assistance and live off the hard work and generosity of Americans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *LilOlLady, YOU MENTALLY RETARDED SUPER PATRIOTIC AMERICAN CLOWN FROM HELL!!!!MEXICO'S GOVERNMENT DOES NOT FLOOD THE USA!! INDIVIDUAL MEXICAN CITIZENS DECIDE TO LEAVE MEXICO OF THEIR OWN ACCORD AND ON THEIR OWN DIME!!!!
> 
> MEXICO, BEING A DEMOCRATIC INSTEAD OF A TOTALITARIAN STATE LIKE NORTH KOREA, HAS THE OBLIGATION TO LET THEM LEAVE!!!!
> 
> AND HOW IN THE WORLD IS MEXICO SUPPOSED TO "ALLOCATE MONEY AND RESOURCES FOR ITS CITIZENS" IF THEY DO NOT FIND THEMSELVES IN MEXICAN TERRITORY, IF THE US GOVERNMENT DOESN'T DO SHIT TO ARREST AND REPATRIATE THEM??
> 
> YOU LILOLLADY, ARE THE TYPICAL MORALLY DEPRAVED SUPER PATRIOTIC AMERICAN CLOWN WHO'S ALWAYS LOOKING FOR FOREIGNERS TO USE AS ESCAPEGOATS IN ORDER TO SHARE THE BLAME THAT BELONGS ENTIRELY TO THE US GOVERNMENT AND ITS PORNOGRAPHIC DERELICTION OF DUTY!!!*
Click to expand...


When I hear this coming from clowns like you, I know I am doing my job and doing it well. 

Mexico give them a booklet *encouraging and telling *them *HOW TO LEAVE*. And how to remain here *UNDETECTED.[/*U]
Foreigners?  *ILLEGEL ALIEN LEACHES.* We have a community of illegals here in Reno that we call *ROACH CITY*.
*ILLEGAL ALIENS*. And if you don't like it, don't be one.


----------



## LilOlLady

i GOT TO ADMIT AND GIVE MYSELF A PAT ON THE BACK. I AM REALLY GOOD AT WHAT I DO. I DON'T EVER DO A HALF ASS JOB. HOW WOULD YOU GRADE ME ON *ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION*? I HAVE GOT AN A- ON MANY SITES.


----------



## LilOlLady

MajinLink said:


> He should be given a medal for not enforcing such a facist and racist law straight out of Nazi Germany



Then ALL our immigration laws are racist and facist to those who hate immigration laws. .

*Arizona Immigration Law Identical to Federal Laws Requiring *Alien ...May 5, 2010 ... All the new bill does is make *Arizona law mirror federal immigration law*, Kobach said. He said that any claims of an &#8220;equal protection ...
Arizona Immigration Law Identical to Federal Laws Requiring Alien Documentation, Says Attorney | CNSnews.com - Cached

*A Nation of Laws *
by Jeff Jackson 02/20/03
*The Land of the Free -* A Conservative Politics Web Site

We are a nation of laws.  True there are some that *prefer that not to be true*.  They would prefer that whatever group has the biggest stick and the power to use that stick control the nation.

But we ARE a nation of laws.  And in order for there to be laws, we as a nation, must have a defined sense of *what is right and what is wrong.  *Without a notion of *right and wrong* there can be no notion of *legal and illegal*.  For *what is legal and what is illegal *can not be defined *without first defining right from wrong*.

But *where does this notion of right and wrong come from?*
http://www.thelandofthefree.net/anationoflaws.html


----------



## High_Gravity

Send all the Latinas to my house!


----------



## LilOlLady

Laws are what make us free. And set us aside from Mexico.


----------



## José

High_Gravity said:


> Send all the Latinas to my house!



Dude, you already know what I think about Latinas but this giant bubble butt managed to derail the thread from its subject and my manhood from the vertical position.


----------



## High_Gravity

José;3207906 said:
			
		

> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Send all the Latinas to my house!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, you already know what I think about Latinas but this giant bubble butt managed to derail the thread from its subject and my manhood from the vertical position.
Click to expand...


I know what you mean b, it seems like alot of people hate Hispanics but I will gladly take in as many Latinas as I have to, I will do my part to help out.


----------



## Revere

Here's how violent rhetoric works in Sheriff Dupdick's county.

LiveLeak.com - Open Borders Mob, Led By Public Official, Ravages Joe Arpaio Effigy ? July 15 2008


----------



## Terral

Hi Lady:



LilOlLady said:


> Pima County Sheriff; Arizona Immigration Law
> 
> Law enforcers has taken as oath to enforce the law and when they refuse to enforce the law they are breaking the law. Pima County Sheriff refuse to enforce Arizona immigration law and should be relieved  of his duty as sheriff. He is obviously not doing the job he was hired to do.



What else is new? Sheriffs all over the USA have been looking the other way and allowing myriads of Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals to run around loose EVERYWHERE doing as they please. American employers are allowed to hire from the illegal alien labor pool and displace Americans out of the labor markets, which is one reason we have the foreclosure/bankruptcy crisis and housing prices going into the toilet. But hey, you can continue hiring the illegal alien maid and gardener and roofer and American workers can go to hell. Everyone from Obama to Congress to the judges to governors and state legislators and local law enforcement is looking the other way and We The Sheeple deserve what you get ...



LilOlLady said:


> If it&#8217;s the law to enquire of ones legal status if stopped during a traffic violation and one does not have proper documents and is Hispanic looking, that is reasonable suspicion to suspect they may be in the country illegally.



Hey! Wake up already! Each and every American is told to hand over his driver's license, vehicle registration and proof of insurance at every stop by every so-called law enforcement officer!!! The idea that Illegal Aliens are allowed to drive away from traffic stops 'without' showing their driver's license, vehicle registration and proof of insurance is ABSOLUTE corruption and lawlessness and so-called law enforcement looking the other way. There should be no legislation required to force the police to DO THEIR JOBS of ensuring illegal aliens are NOT driving on our streets and NOT stealing JOBS from Americans, so on and so forth. The fact is that everyone from Obama to the local law enforcement officer is corrupt and perfectly willing to continue winking and nodding and looking the other way amid the current Illegal Alien Invasion ...



LilOlLady said:


> It&#8217;s people like him that contribute to 20 million illegal aiens in this country. When border patrols agents are busting their butts and putting their lives on the line 24-7 trying to stop illegal immigration and drug smuggling.



Bullony! The border patrol is looking the other way like everybody else!!! We have hundreds and hundreds of Illegal Aliens using the same Social Security numbers on worker applications that includes their addresses and phone numbers, but nobody in law enforcement can track anybody down; because NOBODY IS LOOKING. The border patrol people are standing at the border looking into space, while illegal aliens waltz across and steal JOBS from real Americans. These border patrol people only need to go to any temp labor location to find hundreds of illegal aliens standing around EVERYWHERE, but they sit on the hands at the border like morons. Every border patrol agent in the USA is like the immigration people and so-called 'law enforcement' that just looks the other way allowing millions and millions and millions of Illegal Aliens to run around loose EVERYWHERE.  



LilOlLady said:


> He and other&#8217;s like him is the reason Arizona is in a state of emergency with it come to illegal aliens and crime. There should not be any liberal in office in Arizona government at all. In states where liberal are in charges, the state is almost bankrupt will illegal aliens.



Bullony! All Republicans and all Democrats are corrupt to the core, or we would not have 20 MILLION Illegal Aliens running around in this fascist state of CanAmeriMexico! 



LilOlLady said:


> If you don&#8217;t like being called an &#8220;illegal alien&#8221; don&#8217;t enter the country illegally. Don&#8217;t be an illegal alien.



Every foreign national in the world should come to the USA and join Obama's Cheap Illegal Alien Labor Pool to displace more Americans from JOBS, so the entire system will collapse that much sooner. The system will collapse and the crap will hit the fan and the people in the cross hairs of the New Revolution will be the corrupt politicians and the corrupt law enforcement people refusing to do their jobs.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jdxNSohROk"]New Revolution Is Almost Here[/ame]

GL,

Terral


----------



## Immanuel

LilOlLady said:


> i GOT TO ADMIT AND GIVE MYSELF A PAT ON THE BACK. I AM REALLY GOOD AT WHAT I DO. I DON'T EVER DO A HALF ASS JOB. HOW WOULD YOU GRADE ME ON *ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION*? I HAVE GOT AN A- ON MANY SITES.



I must say that I quit reading this thread a while back and have not followed your conversation much at all, but just to get your cackles up, I will say that your grade is a D-.  

Immie


----------



## Speeddemon22

daveman said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too many immigrants too quickly is the problem.
> 
> Immigrants are boon to this society otherwise.
Click to expand...


SO TRUE!


----------



## FifthColumn

High_Gravity said:


> José;3207906 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Send all the Latinas to my house!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, you already know what I think about Latinas but this giant bubble butt managed to derail the thread from its subject and my manhood from the vertical position.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know what you mean b, it seems like alot of people hate Hispanics but I will gladly take in as many Latinas as I have to, I will do my part to help out.
Click to expand...


Why is it that the majority of them are barely 5 foot tall and almost as wide?


----------



## JamesInFlorida

Harry Dresden said:


> José;3201876 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *Harry Dresden*
> you can probably say that about a hell of a lot of Americans Jose.......but thats besides the point.....back in the early 1900's the small amount who came over were hardly noticed......look at the amount today.....now they are having an impact on our society.....and that is the point.....if things were reversed and Mexico was like the US and we like them and we were going down there and overwhelming some of their Services.....IM SURE THEY WOULD NOT BE TO HAPPY with those fucking Gringos.....now tell me im wrong about my last statement....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with everything you said, Harry but now I'm gonna ask you an apparently off-topic question that will surprise you.
> 
> Have you ever heard of Cesar Millan aka *The Dog Whisperer*, the most famous dog trainer in the world? Millan crossed the Mexican-US border illegally when he was 21. If someone asked him about his views on illegal immigration he'd probably say something like this (if he decided to be really honest):
> 
> "*I was in favor of illegal immigration right up until the moment I crossed the border. The moment I was safe and sound in America the US government could have closed it for good for all I care.*"
> 
> And this kind of personal opinion is shared by thousands of legal hispanic-americans, Harry, perhaps even some of your coworkers. They all oppose illegal immigration *FOR OTHER HISPANICS*, but not for them or their parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc... If they were under any threat of losing their legal status you'd see them changing their opinon overnight.
> 
> And I don't really blame them for having this selfish, opportunist outlook. It's human nature to think that way, to be indulgent with oneself and one's family and incredibly harsh on others. That's why I don't give much credit to "'*THE MAJORITY OF CHICANOS OPPOSE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION*" argument. It says much more about human nature than about firmly held opinions.
> 
> But make no mistake, you'll have a hard time finding a Latino more suportive immigration laws than me. I just happen to despise this particular argument.
> 
> Just think about it, a guy who posts message after message, photo after photo of the Vietnam mass protests exorting the american people to follow the example of their parents and grandparents cannot exactly be considered pro illegal immigration, don't you agree?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jose....since we were talking about this i decided to get the conversation with a couple of these guys today at work to talk about Illegals......the biggest gripe they seemed to have is the "newcomers" not willing to speak English or blend into the new Country....we have a Girl carrier born in Mexico now a Citizen...she speaks great English....but only speaks Spanish to her 2 young kids,hence they dont know English very well.....she said its not her job....its the Schools job to teach her kids English....this is what a couple of the American born guys pointed out to me.....they think she is an ass for having that Attitude....i got to agree....
Click to expand...


Hm freedom of speech-as long as it's in English? Don't remember that being in the constitution...(for the record I think she should teach her kids English-I just don't think she should have to).



LilOlLady said:


> José;3196811 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do I hear when I urge the american people to take drastic measures to fight illegal immigration like monster protests and giant street battles that helped end the american military involvement in Vietnam?
> 
> An endless parade of inane excuses from lazy, spineless people who don't want to do anything beside whining about illegal immigration on the Internet:
> 
> "*I'm two busy raising my kids to participate in protests."*
> "The Vietnam War (*an issue that in no way posed an existential threat to America*) was much more importants than the issue of illegal immigration (*an issue that definitely does*)".
> 
> etc, etc, etc,...
> 
> I know it's cruel to say this but when I see such a huge apathy and innaction I *almost* think the american people deserve to see their country split in half by Aztlan or become a third world nation.
> 
> But "almost" is the key word. I'm not THAT mean. : )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your kids are the best reason WHY you sould be our protesting. They have no future if this country goes to pot and it is with the massive influx of poverty. Poverty means some one have to subsidize them and you children will be the subsidizers.
Click to expand...


The last 3 presidents have smoked pot before, GWB was even a drug addict at one time (according to himself). They all seemed to have ambitions and reached them-no? 42% of adult Americans have tried pot before (link at bottom of post). Surely if pot were that bad, we have poverty similar to that number don't you think?

Now I don't smoke pot, but to say it'll essentially lead to our country going down the tubes is just silly. Prohibition of alcohol lead to MUCH MUCH more crime than there was before or after that period in time, as a result to alcohol being illegal. Why would marijuana be any different if it were made legal? The cartels would lose so much money, and power, and we could even tax it like alcohol and tobacco.

An American Pastime: Smoking Pot - TIME


----------



## Sarah G

Madeline said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Sirene, wrong again.  they do have tax id numbers, perfectly legit.  Been paying taxes for years in anticipation of amnesty.  They work, they pay taxes, buy houses, etc..
> 
> You guys just assume they are stealing, dealing drugs, living on welfare.  Some do that but so do some Americans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We don't mind americans on welfare, etc.* they are our own*. Illegal are not they belong to Mexico.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How would an illegal alien get a tax ID number, Sarah?  Legally, I mean.
Click to expand...


The IRS does not ask you whether you are illegally in the country.  This is why amnesty is the best and only answer imo.  Many have been living here peacefully, working hard and paying taxes.  

Sending them back will not affect the crime rate or job creation either way.  Nobody wants some of their jobs.  We might want some, some illegals are very educated.  Send the criminals back.

Many here are placing every Latino in one category, you all couldn't be more wrong.


----------



## WillowTree

Sarah G said:


> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> We don't mind americans on welfare, etc.* they are our own*. Illegal are not they belong to Mexico.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How would an illegal alien get a tax ID number, Sarah?  Legally, I mean.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The IRS does not ask you whether you are illegally in the country.  This is why amnesty is the best and only answer imo.  Many have been living here peacefully, working hard and paying taxes.
> 
> Sending them back will not affect the crime rate or job creation either way.  Nobody wants some of their jobs.  We might want some, some illegals are very educated.  Send the criminals back.
> 
> Many here are placing every Latino in one category, you all couldn't be more wrong.
Click to expand...


Oh great. Amnesty. That's like sending out 40 million hand engraved invitations.


----------



## Sarah G

WillowTree said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> 
> How would an illegal alien get a tax ID number, Sarah?  Legally, I mean.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The IRS does not ask you whether you are illegally in the country.  This is why amnesty is the best and only answer imo.  Many have been living here peacefully, working hard and paying taxes.
> 
> Sending them back will not affect the crime rate or job creation either way.  Nobody wants some of their jobs.  We might want some, some illegals are very educated.  Send the criminals back.
> 
> Many here are placing every Latino in one category, you all couldn't be more wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh great. Amnesty. That's like sending out 40 million hand engraved invitations.
Click to expand...


12 million.


----------



## Tank

Even one is to many


----------



## Speeddemon22

José;3196811 said:
			
		

> What do I hear when I urge the american people to take drastic measures to fight illegal immigration like monster protests and giant street battles that helped end the american military involvement in Vietnam?
> 
> An endless parade of inane excuses from lazy, spineless people who don't want to do anything beside whining about illegal immigration on the Internet:
> 
> "I'm two busy raising my kids to participate in protests."
> 
> "The Vietnam War (*an issue that in no way posed an existential threat to America*) was much more importants than the issue of illegal immigration (*an issue that definitely does*)".
> 
> etc, etc, etc,...
> 
> I know it's cruel to say this but when I see such a huge apathy and innaction I *almost* think the american people deserve to see their country split in half by Aztlan or become a third world nation.
> 
> But "almost" is the key word. I'm not THAT mean. : )



First of all, puto, it's "too busy," not "two busy."  Second of all, as I've told you before, the Vietnam war was fought using DRAFTED AMERICANS.  THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE IN THOSE PHOTOS YOU POSTED WERE SCARED SHITLESS THAT THEY, OR SOMEONE THEY LOVED WOULD BE SHIPPED OFF TO FIGHT (AND POSSIBLY DIE FOR) A WAR THAT THEY DIDN'T BELIEVE IN.  YOU GET THAT, RIGHT?  ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION LAWS DO NOT FUCKING DEMAND THAT AMERICANS BE DRAFTED TO FIGHT AND DIE IN A WAR.  SO QUIT ACTING LIKE THERE'S SOME SORT OF COMPARISON THERE.


----------



## GHook93

CA made its bed time to drown in it! Blind liberalism does this type of thing,
First, there shouldn't be any anchor babies. Second, welfare shouldn't be given out like candy anyways! IT'S GIVEN OUT WAY TOO EASILY AND NOT JUST TO ANCHOR BABIES!!!



LilOlLady said:


> *Should we continue to give welfare to anchor babies even if it bankrupts our nation?*
> The children of illegal aliens (anchor babies) have bankrupted the state of California
> 
> In 2009, San Bernardino County spent $64 million providing welfare benefits to U.S.-born children of illegal aliens.
> 
> According to county records, during a typical month, close to 15,000 offspring of illegal aliens received either welfare payments or food stamps in 2009. Over 11,000 of those children received both forms of assistance.
> 
> Illegal immigration is slowly but surely destroying this nation.
> 
> Source: http://www.examiner.com/x-35821-Immigrat
> http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 424AAdOuB3
> 
> *
> More reason to repeal 14th Amendment. and stop illegal immigration, secure the border and deport.
> 
> Don't tell me they do not come here to have their babies. They don't get these kind of benefits in Mexico. *


----------



## Speeddemon22

GHook93 said:


> CA made its bed time to drown in it! Blind liberalism does this type of thing,
> First, there shouldn't be any anchor babies. Second, welfare shouldn't be given out like candy anyways! IT'S GIVEN OUT WAY TOO EASILY AND NOT JUST TO ANCHOR BABIES!!!
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Should we continue to give welfare to anchor babies even if it bankrupts our nation?*
> The children of illegal aliens (anchor babies) have bankrupted the state of California
> 
> In 2009, San Bernardino County spent $64 million providing welfare benefits to U.S.-born children of illegal aliens.
> 
> According to county records, during a typical month, close to 15,000 offspring of illegal aliens received either welfare payments or food stamps in 2009. Over 11,000 of those children received both forms of assistance.
> 
> Illegal immigration is slowly but surely destroying this nation.
> 
> Source: http://www.examiner.com/x-35821-Immigrat
> http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 424AAdOuB3
> 
> *
> More reason to repeal 14th Amendment. and stop illegal immigration, secure the border and deport.
> 
> Don't tell me they do not come here to have their babies. They don't get these kind of benefits in Mexico. *
Click to expand...


 I agree, G.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *speeddemon*
> First of all, puto, it's "too busy," not "two busy." Second of all, as I've told you before, the Vietnam war was fought using DRAFTED AMERICANS. THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE IN THOSE PHOTOS YOU POSTED WERE SCARED SHITLESS THAT THEY, OR SOMEONE THEY LOVED WOULD BE SHIPPED OFF TO FIGHT (AND POSSIBLY DIE FOR) A WAR THAT THEY DIDN'T BELIEVE IN. YOU GET THAT, RIGHT? ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION LAWS DO NOT FUCKING DEMAND THAT AMERICANS BE DRAFTED TO FIGHT AND DIE IN A WAR. SO QUIT ACTING LIKE THERE'S SOME SORT OF COMPARISON THERE.



You're right on the money. There is absolutely no comparison betwen the Vietnam War and the illegal immigration issue.

An issue like illegal immigration that threatens America's territorial integrity and first-world nation status is *INFINITELY MORE IMPORTANT* than a military conflict half a world away that didn't pose any existential threat to the US.

Any true, red-blooded super patriotic american clown will certainly consider the destruction of America as we know it as being much more important than the death of a few thousand GIs.


----------



## Douger

A better question is should you take the welfare money given to AfricanT and IsNtReal and give it to the poor living in the US to help reduce crime, or give it to the Nazi terrorists, real estate thieves, and aids ridden savages overseas ?


----------



## FifthColumn

José;3221108 said:
			
		

> [
> You're right on the money. There is absolutely no comparison betwen the Vietnam War and the illegal immigration issue.
> 
> An issue like illegal immigration that threatens America's territorial integrity and first-world nation status is *INFINITELY MORE IMPORTANT* than a military conflict half a world away that didn't pose any existential threat to the US.
> 
> Any true, red-blooded super patriotic american clown will certainly consider the destruction of America as we know it as being much more important than the death of a few thousand GIs.


 
But you must begin by teaching American children that these invading illegals are evil and will destroy the American way of life.


----------



## Douger

FifthColumn said:


> But you must begin by teaching American children that these invading illegals are evil and will destroy the American way of life.


So my buddy in Miami, Juan Pablo, who is from Honduras, has a schoolteacher wife and two little girls back home, lays 600 block a day, 7 days a week, is evil.
The kikes that run the IRS don't have any trouble collecting his "illegal" tax dollars from his check every week. Chosen, not evil.

I know. You're uh murkin. A brainwashed idiot on a superiority trip.


----------



## FifthColumn

Douger said:


> FifthColumn said:
> 
> 
> 
> But you must begin by teaching American children that these invading illegals are evil and will destroy the American way of life.
> 
> 
> 
> So my buddy in Miami, Juan Pablo, who is from Honduras, has a schoolteacher wife and two little girls back home, lays 600 block a day, 7 days a week, is evil.
> The kikes that run the IRS don't have any trouble collecting his "illegal" tax dollars from his check every week. Chosen, not evil.
> 
> I know. You're uh murkin. A brainwashed idiot on a superiority trip.
Click to expand...

 
Why doesn't Saint Juan Pablo stay in Honduras and lay 600 block a day over there to help his own people? Why? Because he wants to live like an American without the 500 years of hard work it took by every other race in the world to build the United States.

No Latin American is entitled to sneak into the US and feed off of our economy.


----------



## LilOlLady

Ravi said:


> You call them anchor babies but what they are are Americans.
> 
> Choke on it.



Americans by default.


----------



## Flagwavrusa

LilOlLady said:


> *Should we continue to give welfare to anchor babies even if it bankrupts our nation?*
> The children of illegal aliens (anchor babies) have bankrupted the state of California
> 
> In 2009, San Bernardino County spent $64 million providing welfare benefits to U.S.-born children of illegal aliens.
> 
> According to county records, during a typical month, close to 15,000 offspring of illegal aliens received either welfare payments or food stamps in 2009. Over 11,000 of those children received both forms of assistance.
> 
> Illegal immigration is slowly but surely destroying this nation.
> 
> Source: http://www.examiner.com/x-35821-Immigrat
> http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 424AAdOuB3
> 
> *
> More reason to repeal 14th Amendment. and stop illegal immigration, secure the border and deport.
> 
> Don't tell me they do not come here to have their babies. They don't get these kind of benefits in Mexico. *



It would probably be cheaper to bribe Mexican women to stay in Mexico to birth their children. Im sure an incentive of $2500 would do the trick. Sure its a form of extortion but nothing else seems to work and it would be a hell of a lot cheaper in the long run to the American taxpayer.


----------



## GOP_John

No, we should never give anchor babies a dime.  That is just stupid.  They belong in Mexico.


----------



## LilOlLady

*The Crackdown on Employment of Illegal Immigrants 
Spreads to California *

Mahsa Aliaskari
Matthew B. Hayes 
Greenberg Traurig, LLP 
Thursday, January 13, 2011 

Murrieta and Temecula Join Growing List of Southern California Cities Requiring Employers to Use E-Verify

In 2007, Arizona became the first state to pass legislation requiring employers to use the voluntary E-Verify1 program to confirm the employment eligibility of new hires. Since then, Arizona has been the focal point for publicity and legal challenges on attempts by states and localities to crack down on the employment of illegal immigrants. However, Arizona is not the only place where we are seeing state and local action.

Behind the scenes, several Southern California cities have quietly followed Arizona&#8217;s lead enacting similar laws mandating use of E-Verify. On July 13, 2010, Temecula joined the growing list of Southern California cities requiring employers to use E-Verify as a condition for maintaining a business license, and on December 20, 2010, Murrieta&#8217;s city council moved forward with its plans to institute a similar ordinance. While the State of California has not jumped on the bandwagon, many of its localities are taking action and increasing the burden on companies doing business not only across state lines but across city and county lines.

The Crackdown on Employment of Illegal Immigrants Spreads to California | The National Law Review


*DHS Steps Up Employment Verification (I-9 Form) Enforcement with Help from E-Verify*by Tom Ahearn May 22, 2009 

According to a recent article on Businessweek.com, the new Obama Administration will *intensify efforts to crack down on companies that knowingly hire illegal immigrants *with help from the electronic employment verification (I-9 Form) system known as E-Verify. 

At a breakfast sponsored by The Christian Science Monitor, Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary Janet Napolitano said that the DHS &#8211; which includes the U.S. Immigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE) and the U.S. Citizen and Immigration Services (USCIS) &#8211; *will target employers more than workers to tackle illegal immigration*. 

In an effort to determine what employers actually know about their employees' status, Napolitano said that the *DHS will increase audits of the Employee Eligibility Verification forms* &#8211; also known as* I-9 Forms *&#8211; that employers must use to verify their employees' identification and confirm that they have the right to work in the United States. 

I-9 Compliance Updates - DHS Steps Up Employment Verification (I-9 Form) Enforcement with Help from E-Verify


----------



## LilOlLady

..*Obama Administration Intensifies Crackdown On Illegal Workers[/B

by James Rosen | January 20, 2011

In a move aimed at curbing illegal hiring by Fortune 500 companies, the Obama administration announced the creation of a new sub-unit of the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) that will use the companies' tax documents to purge their payrolls of unauthorized workers and illegal immigrants.

Comprised of fifteen audit specialists based in Crystal City, Virginia, the Employment Compliance Inspection Center will be overseen by John Morton, director of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), which is in turn a branch of DHS. The specialists will scour the I-9 tax and employment records of large companies - those employing tens and even hundreds of thousands of people - to determine if their hiring practices violate immigration law.

DHS officials told Fox News the center, which will cost taxpayers over $1 million in its first year of operations, will create greater efficiencies of scale for ICE agents. Where the old model saw 100 ICE agents auditing and raiding a single company, these officials said, now two ICE agents will be able to investigate 100 companies at a time.
Obama Administration Intensifies Crackdown On Illegal Workers - FoxNews.com
*


----------



## LilOlLady

*Anchor babies cost Los Angeles welfare $600 million last year*
January 20th, 2011 8:26 am PT.

California harbors the most illegal aliens in the nation and a new report out from the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors shows the incredibly high cost of welfare for parents of anchor babies.

The $600 million tab was tallied using county statistics released by Los Angeles County Supervisor Michael Antonovich who says social spending for those families rose $53 million in November and when added to the $570 already spent would edge the yearly welfare bill past $600 million for 2010. 


http://www.examiner.com/county-politica ... -last-year


----------



## syrenn

And that is just one county. Just think how much the whole state is dishing out to illegals that could be going to help American citizens.


----------



## José

syrenn said:


> And that is just one county. Just think how much the whole state is dishing out to illegals that could be going to help American citizens.



If their citizenship is the problem, there's no need to worry. All the illegal Mexican population in the USA will be American citizens in less than 10 years. 

This is what you get when all the pressure you put on your government amounts to little more than online blah-blah-blah.


----------



## syrenn

José;3233390 said:
			
		

> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> And that is just one county. Just think how much the whole state is dishing out to illegals that could be going to help American citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If their citizenship is the problem, there's no need to worry. All the illegal Mexican population in the USA will be American citizens in less than 10 years.
> 
> This is what you get when all the pressure you put on your government amounts to little more than online blah-blah-blah.
Click to expand...



Right, so we need to deport them all now. A very simple problem to fix.


----------



## Truthmatters

They are not anchors they are babies.

They are tiny children.



If born here they are American babies.


----------



## High_Gravity

So you guys want to deport American citizens to Mexico?


----------



## Big Black Dog

If you live in Mexico and don't have a job or a way to support yourself, come to America illegally and have a baby.  Bingo.  Instant source of income and lots of handouts from the State.  Who says those pesky Mexicans are stupid?  Americans are very very generous - and stupid.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *TruthMatters*
> They are not anchors they are babies.
> 
> They are tiny children.
> 
> If born here they are American babies.


TruthMatters

I'll leave the american amendment aside, just for the sake of discussion.

The deportation of illegal immigrants and their children residing in America for two or three decades do no qualify as ethnic cleasing by any stretch of the imagination. 

This amount of time is not enough for an immigrant to call any part of the world their homeland.


----------



## Truthmatters

and they may be thinking of denying care to them.


----------



## Truthmatters

José;3233416 said:
			
		

> They are not anchors they are babies.
> 
> They are tiny children.
> 
> If born here they are American babies.
> 
> TruthMatters
> 
> I'll leave the american amendment aside, just for the sake of discussion.
> 
> The deportation of illegal immigrants and their children residing in America for two or three decades do no qualify as ethnic cleasing by any stretch of the imagination.
> 
> This amount of time is not enough for an immigrant to call any part of the world their homeland.



When you are a year old and then live here for 15 years all you know is America.

I never said anything about ethnic cleansing , you did.

Anchor babies is what this OP was talking about.

Anchor babies is a term for an undocumented workers child born in the USA.

Its a derogetory term for an American citizen who happens to be a child.


I dont like people talking about Americans that way.


----------



## High_Gravity

What next, ship them all to camps and make them wear a star?


----------



## syrenn

High_Gravity said:


> So you guys want to deport American citizens to Mexico?




No, just their illegal parents. If they want to leave their American babies here or take the with them, that is up to the illegal themselves.


----------



## syrenn

Truthmatters said:


> They are not anchors they are babies.
> 
> They are tiny children.
> 
> 
> 
> If born here they are American babies.



Right, but the parents are not American. They are illegal. 

Send the illegals home.


----------



## Truthmatters

Yeah split up families and orphan children


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *TruthMatters*
> I never said anything about ethnic cleansing , you did.



I'm glad to see you're able to distinguish between normal deportation and ethnic cleansing.

Kudos to you on this.    



> Originally posted by *TruthMatters*
> When you are a year old and then live here for 15 years all you know is America.



Wrong. 

That teenager speaks the language of his parents fluently and has an awful lot of information about the old country.

He's more than ready to move to Mexico City.


----------



## syrenn

Truthmatters said:


> Yeah split up families and orphan children



I have not suggested splitting up any families. If the illegals want to take their American citizen children home with them, they are free to do so. They are also free to leave their American citizen children here. We pay for them one way or the other.


----------



## High_Gravity

José;3233454 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *TruthMatters*
> I never said anything about ethnic cleansing , you did.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad to see you're able to distinguish between normal deportation and ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Kudos to you on this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *TruthMatters*
> When you are a year old and then live here for 15 years all you know is America.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> 
> That teenager speaks the language of his parents fluently and has an awful lot of information about the old country.
> 
> He's more than ready to move to Mexico City.
Click to expand...


Jose thats not always the case, I have met plenty of Mexican-American kids who do not speak Spanish.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *syrenn*
> Right, so we need to deport them all now. A very simple problem to fix.



So true.

The fight against illegal immigration is in many ways a race against time.

My advice to the American government is:

Deport them while you can. 

Send them back to their countries of origin before they create roots or shut up and live with the consequences of your inaction.


----------



## Truthmatters

Now go get all the funds you will need to deport all of these people.

What you wnat to happen is fiscally impossible even in good times.

How about we find a logical solution that can actually be done in the real world instead of what your heart wishes.


----------



## syrenn

José;3233454 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *TruthMatters*
> I never said anything about ethnic cleansing , you did.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad to see you're able to distinguish between normal deportation and ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Kudos to you on this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *TruthMatters*
> When you are a year old and then live here for 15 years all you know is America.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> 
> That teenager speaks the language of his parents fluently and has an awful lot of information about the old country.
> 
> He's more than ready to move to Mexico City.
Click to expand...


So why all the whining when it is suggested that they do just that. Go home to where they are legal citizens.


----------



## Truthmatters

Because its fiscally impossible


----------



## High_Gravity

But hasn't the US beep deporting illegals? all they do is come right back anyways.


----------



## Truthmatters

I will never understand why people dont realize that being an illegal in this country is for some the ONLY path to American citizenship many have.

They come for the same reasons your forefathers came here. They dream of a better life and our immigartion quotas are so small they must do it illegally. Once here there are many paths to citizenship.

filing a paper in mexico to come will take them half their lives IF they get lucky.

Now tell me why we allow so few Brown people in?


----------



## Big Black Dog

Go to Wal-Mart, or just about anywhere else, and listen to all the Spanish flying around there.  This is America.  Speak English or get the hell out.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *High_Gravity*
> Jose thats not always the case, I have met plenty of Mexican-American kids who do not speak Spanish.



I was referring to the children not the grandchildren of illegal Mexicans, Gravity. I'm sure you can find one or two cases where the children are not fluent in Spanish but the vast majority is.


----------



## syrenn

Truthmatters said:


> Because its fiscally impossible



Agreed! It is NOT fiscally possible to pay for the care of illegals children.


----------



## Truthmatters

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/guideDesc.asp?catid=97&type=issue



Immigration regulations remained stable for the next four decades until everything was radically transformed by the 1965 Immigration Act, which set the ceiling for immigrants from the Western hemisphere at 120,000 per year while earmarking fully 170,000 slots for immigrants from nations outside the Western Hemisphere. For the first time in American history, non-Europeans formed the dominant immigrant group, the new arrivals hailing predominantly from Asia, Latin America, the Caribbean, and the Middle East. Between 1968 and 1993, fully 85 percent of the 16.7 million legal immigrants arriving in the United States during that period came from the Third World &#8211; including 47 percent from Latin America and the Caribbean, and 34 percent from Asia. 



Do you realize how hard it is to come here legally?


----------



## syrenn

Truthmatters said:


> I will never understand why people dont realize that being an illegal in this country is for some the ONLY path to American citizenship many have.
> 
> They come for the same reasons your forefathers came here. They dream of a better life and our immigartion quotas are so small they must do it illegally. Once here there are many paths to citizenship.
> 
> filing a paper in mexico to come will take them half their lives IF they get lucky.
> 
> Now tell me why we allow so few Brown people in?




I will never understand what people do not understand about the meaning of illegal. 

If it takes them half their lives to get there legally, fine by me. 

I don't care if they are brown, yellow or white. Illegal is illegal and non should be allowed in.


----------



## syrenn

Truthmatters said:


> Do you realize how hard it is to come here legally?




 I do. 

The illegals don't give a shit.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *syrenn*
> So why all the whining when it is suggested that they do just that. Go home to where they are legal citizens.



From China to South Africa, the vast majority of illegal immigrants do not voluntarily repatriate themselves provided that there are jobs available. They have to be handcuffed, put on a plane of bus and sent back to where they came from.

If you have any hope that illegal Mexicans will do the job of the US immigration service for them, I'm afraid you're in for the biggest disappointment in your whole life. : )


----------



## Truthmatters

The vast majority of those people you see speaking spanish in wallmart are legal citizens.

Just because they are brown and can speak spanish does not mean they are illegal.

Retaining the spanish language is a great economic step up for these children.

There are MANY spanish speaking countries in this world and they need their businesses served by someone.

To tell a family not to train their child to be multilingual is utter silliness.


----------



## High_Gravity

José;3233492 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *High_Gravity*
> Jose thats not always the case, I have met plenty of Mexican-American kids who do not speak Spanish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was referring to the children not the grandchildren of illegal Mexicans, Gravity. I'm sure you can find one or two cases where the children are not fluent in Spanish but the vast majority is.
Click to expand...


Oh, I just remember when I was seeing my ex girlfriend her parents were from Mexico, she spoke spanish but her teenage brother did not.


----------



## High_Gravity

Big Black Dog said:


> Go to Wal-Mart, or just about anywhere else, and listen to all the Spanish flying around there.  This is America.  Speak English or get the hell out.



If you go a store in Koreatown in San Franciso everyone is speaking Korea, if you go to Brighton Beach they are all speaking Russian, should the Koreans and Russians also leave?


----------



## Truthmatters

Now tell me just how much money it will take to repatriate all the illegals?


----------



## High_Gravity

Truthmatters said:


> Now tell me just how much money it will take to repatriate all the illegals?



It doesn't matter, they will just come back. Deportation is a failure.


----------



## Truthmatters

syrenn said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you realize how hard it is to come here legally?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do.
> 
> The illegals don't give a shit.
Click to expand...


Yes they do care, if we gave them a legal way to come they would do it legally.

They would prefer it and any sane person knows that.


----------



## Truthmatters

Now if your only real quam to these people being here is their status as illegal then you should have no problem with giving them a legal way to come right?


----------



## syrenn

José;3233505 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *syrenn*
> So why all the whining when it is suggested that they do just that. Go home to where they are legal citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From China to South Africa, the vast majority of illegal immigrants do not voluntarily repatriate themselves provided that there are jobs available. They have to be handcuffed, put on a plane of bus and sent back to where they came from.
> 
> If you have any hope that illegal Mexicans will do the job of the US immigration service for them, I'm afraid you're in for the biggest disappointment in your whole life. : )
Click to expand...


I know very well they wont go of their own. I am saying round them up and spend the money to get rid of them instead of spending the money on keeping them and their babies here. 

It is rather simple to catch the anchor mothers. When she drops the baby, arrest her and deport her on the next plane out.


----------



## Truthmatters

ICE: Tab to remove illegal residents would approach $100 billion - CNN.com


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- It would cost at least $94 billion to find, detain and remove all 12 million people believed to be staying illegally in the United States, the federal government estimated Wednesday.

 Julie Myers, the head of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, gave the figure during a hearing before a Senate committee Wednesday.

She acknowledged it was based on "very rough calculations."

An ICE spokesman later said the $94 billion did not include the cost of finding illegal immigrants, nor court costs -- dollar amounts that are largely unknowable


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *TruthMatters*
> Do you realize how hard it is to come here legally?



So very true.

Illegal immigrants don't "wait in line" because there is simply no "line" to wait in.

If you are a poor, unskilled Mexican worker your only chance to work in America permanently is by overstaying your visa or jumping the fence.

But this does not mean in any way that America has an obligation to increase her legal immigration quota.

Hell, America being a sovereign nation, the US government has every right to completely abolish any kind of immigration if it deems it to be in the best interest of the nation.


----------



## syrenn

High_Gravity said:


> Big Black Dog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Go to Wal-Mart, or just about anywhere else, and listen to all the Spanish flying around there.  This is America.  Speak English or get the hell out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you go a store in Koreatown in San Franciso everyone is speaking Korea, if you go to Brighton Beach they are all speaking Russian, should the Koreans and Russians also leave?
Click to expand...


If they are illegal. Yes.


----------



## Vel

Truthmatters said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you realize how hard it is to come here legally?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do.
> 
> The illegals don't give a shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes they do care, if we gave them a legal way to come they would do it legally.
> 
> They would prefer it and any sane person knows that.
Click to expand...


 So what you're saying is that since we don't GIVE them what they want, then they will simply TAKE it?  And you can't see the criminality in that?


----------



## syrenn

Truthmatters said:


> Now tell me just how much money it will take to repatriate all the illegals?



Less money then it would be to have them show up ONCE in an emergency room, school room orjail cell.


----------



## syrenn

High_Gravity said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now tell me just how much money it will take to repatriate all the illegals?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter, they will just come back. Deportation is a failure.
Click to expand...


LOL, which is why we need to shoot them at the border crossings.


----------



## Truthmatters

syrenn said:


> José;3233505 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *syrenn*
> So why all the whining when it is suggested that they do just that. Go home to where they are legal citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From China to South Africa, the vast majority of illegal immigrants do not voluntarily repatriate themselves provided that there are jobs available. They have to be handcuffed, put on a plane of bus and sent back to where they came from.
> 
> If you have any hope that illegal Mexicans will do the job of the US immigration service for them, I'm afraid you're in for the biggest disappointment in your whole life. : )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know very well they wont go of their own. I am saying round them up and spend the money to get rid of them instead of spending the money on keeping them and their babies here.
> 
> It is rather simple to catch the anchor mothers. When she drops the baby, arrest her and deport her on the next plane out.
Click to expand...




Send forth Thy light and Thy truth


It seems your light and truth is a pretty evil view of human decency


----------



## syrenn

Truthmatters said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you realize how hard it is to come here legally?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do.
> 
> The illegals don't give a shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes they do care, if we gave them a legal way to come they would do it legally.
> 
> They would prefer it and any sane person knows that.
Click to expand...


TM, we DO give them a legal way to come here. THEY are choosing to storm the doors and abuse our system. That makes them criminals. Dropping a baby is a loophole to stay.

I care about Americans. I don't give a rats ass about illegals. They don't deserve one penny that is spent on them.


----------



## Truthmatters

There you haved it.

The view of people who think very little of humans if they are not the right humans.

Not to mention that it is cost prohibitive to try and send everyone back.


----------



## syrenn

Truthmatters said:


> Now if your only real quam to these people being here is their status as illegal then you should have no problem with giving them a legal way to come right?



 We do have a legal way to come here. They choose not to come here the legal way.


----------



## syrenn

Truthmatters said:


> There you haved it.
> 
> The view of people who think very little of humans if they are not the right humans.
> 
> Not to mention that it is cost prohibitive to try and send everyone back.



Wrong TM. Do try being civil and not misrepresent what you are reading and putting things in other mouths.  

I dont give a shit about *your *"right humans" I care about humans who are in this country as legal citizens.


----------



## Truthmatters

syrenn said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now tell me just how much money it will take to repatriate all the illegals?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter, they will just come back. Deportation is a failure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL, which is why we need to shoot them at the border crossings.
Click to expand...


You are the one being uncivlized


----------



## syrenn

Truthmatters said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter, they will just come back. Deportation is a failure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, which is why we need to shoot them at the border crossings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are the one being uncivlized
Click to expand...


What part of 


LOL

and




dont you get?


----------



## Truthmatters

Why do you refuse to even address the fiscal issue I raised?


----------



## Truthmatters

Truthmatters said:


> ICE: Tab to remove illegal residents would approach $100 billion - CNN.com
> 
> 
> WASHINGTON (CNN) -- It would cost at least $94 billion to find, detain and remove all 12 million people believed to be staying illegally in the United States, the federal government estimated Wednesday.
> 
> Julie Myers, the head of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, gave the figure during a hearing before a Senate committee Wednesday.
> 
> She acknowledged it was based on "very rough calculations."
> 
> An ICE spokesman later said the $94 billion did not include the cost of finding illegal immigrants, nor court costs -- dollar amounts that are largely unknowable



Now address this issue


----------



## syrenn

Truthmatters said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José;3233505 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From China to South Africa, the vast majority of illegal immigrants do not voluntarily repatriate themselves provided that there are jobs available. They have to be handcuffed, put on a plane of bus and sent back to where they came from.
> 
> If you have any hope that illegal Mexicans will do the job of the US immigration service for them, I'm afraid you're in for the biggest disappointment in your whole life. : )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know very well they wont go of their own. I am saying round them up and spend the money to get rid of them instead of spending the money on keeping them and their babies here.
> 
> It is rather simple to catch the anchor mothers. When she drops the baby, arrest her and deport her on the next plane out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Send forth Thy light and Thy truth
> 
> 
> It seems your light and truth is a pretty evil view of human decency
Click to expand...


No one has ever said the truth is always pretty.


----------



## syrenn

Truthmatters said:


> Why do you refuse to even address the fiscal issue I raised?



Do you not read your answers?





Truthmatters said:


> Because its fiscally impossible



Agreed! It is NOT fiscally possible to pay for the care of illegals children.


----------



## Ravi

LilOlLady said:


> *Anchor babies cost Los Angeles welfare $600 million last year*
> January 20th, 2011 8:26 am PT.
> 
> California harbors the most illegal aliens in the nation and a new report out from the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors shows the incredibly high cost of welfare for parents of anchor babies.
> 
> The $600 million tab was tallied using county statistics released by Los Angeles County Supervisor Michael Antonovich who says social spending for those families rose $53 million in November and when added to the $570 already spent would edge the yearly welfare bill past $600 million for 2010.
> 
> 
> http://www.examiner.com/county-politica ... -last-year


But how much money do their parents contribute to the economy? That is a question that has never been explored rationally.


----------



## syrenn

Truthmatters said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> ICE: Tab to remove illegal residents would approach $100 billion - CNN.com
> 
> 
> WASHINGTON (CNN) -- It would cost at least $94 billion to find, detain and remove all 12 million people believed to be staying illegally in the United States, the federal government estimated Wednesday.
> 
> Julie Myers, the head of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, gave the figure during a hearing before a Senate committee Wednesday.
> 
> She acknowledged it was based on "very rough calculations."
> 
> An ICE spokesman later said the $94 billion did not include the cost of finding illegal immigrants, nor court costs -- dollar amounts that are largely unknowable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now address this issue
Click to expand...


Only 94 billion? Sounds like a deal to me. 

Rounding them up and deporting them would unclog over crowded education and criminal systems and help with the cost of health care. Decrease the demand on welfare and social services. The cost would even out. 

As i have said before, ICE needs to take up portals of the emergency rooms and maternity wards.  No need to find anyone.


----------



## Truthmatters

Good one ravi , I swear I was just about to point that out.

Many pretend these people do not add to the economy and they certainly do.

That is one reason its so hard to calculate in all the costs of sending everyone home.

It is a huge expensive legal tangle and loss of revenue issue.

Some just want  to be irrational instead of living i n the real world.

I truely believe many of the right leaning stances are designed to avoid solutions which is why I believe the right leadership wants this country drowned in the bathtub.

Not the rank and file but the real leaders of the right.

Their solutions are all non solutions.


----------



## Truthmatters

syrenn said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> ICE: Tab to remove illegal residents would approach $100 billion - CNN.com
> 
> 
> WASHINGTON (CNN) -- It would cost at least $94 billion to find, detain and remove all 12 million people believed to be staying illegally in the United States, the federal government estimated Wednesday.
> 
> Julie Myers, the head of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, gave the figure during a hearing before a Senate committee Wednesday.
> 
> She acknowledged it was based on "very rough calculations."
> 
> An ICE spokesman later said the $94 billion did not include the cost of finding illegal immigrants, nor court costs -- dollar amounts that are largely unknowable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now address this issue
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only 94 billion? Sounds like a deal to me.
> 
> Rounding them up and deporting them would unclog over crowded education and criminal systems and help with the cost of health care. Decrease the demand on welfare and social services. The cost would even out.
> 
> As i have said before, ICE needs to take up portals of the emergency rooms and maternity wards.  No need to find anyone.
Click to expand...


Did you not read even the little I posted of the article?


Why do you only use partial information to decide your postions?


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *syrenn*
> TM, we DO give them a legal way to come here. THEY are choosing to storm the doors and abuse our system. That makes them criminals.



Now you're taking a good argument and pushing it too far. As a resident of California you are probably aware that during harvest time in your state US Border Patrol agents look the other way and allow illegal Mexicans to cross the border.

This is a testament to the fact that America's immigration quotas are not enough to supply even the most basic demand for unskilled work!!!!

So don't fool yourself, syrenn. The average Mexican citizen has a better chance of recreating the Aztec Empire than being allowed to live and work in the US.

But guess what... No one is blaming America for this!! No one is saying America should become the Mother Theresa of the world allowing millions of poor Mexicans to live and work there (well, at least I'm not).

I'm just saying... let's stop this verbal diarrhea "*They could become legal citizens but choose to be criminals*".


----------



## syrenn

Truthmatters said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now address this issue
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only 94 billion? Sounds like a deal to me.
> 
> Rounding them up and deporting them would unclog over crowded education and criminal systems and help with the cost of health care. Decrease the demand on welfare and social services. The cost would even out.
> 
> As i have said before, ICE needs to take up portals of the emergency rooms and maternity wards.  No need to find anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you not read even the little I posted of the article?
> 
> 
> Why do you only use partial information to decide your postions?
Click to expand...


Funny you of all people should ask that question TM.


----------



## Truthmatters

Truthmatters said:


> http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/guideDesc.asp?catid=97&type=issue
> 
> 
> 
> Immigration regulations remained stable for the next four decades until everything was radically transformed by the 1965 Immigration Act, which set the ceiling for immigrants from the Western hemisphere at 120,000 per year while earmarking fully 170,000 slots for immigrants from nations outside the Western Hemisphere. For the first time in American history, non-Europeans formed the dominant immigrant group, the new arrivals hailing predominantly from Asia, Latin America, the Caribbean, and the Middle East. Between 1968 and 1993, fully 85 percent of the 16.7 million legal immigrants arriving in the United States during that period came from the Third World  including 47 percent from Latin America and the Caribbean, and 34 percent from Asia.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you realize how hard it is to come here legally?



We need to up the number of legal immigrations to make this anywhere near the number the businesses clamour for to run their businesses


----------



## Truthmatters

syrenn said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only 94 billion? Sounds like a deal to me.
> 
> Rounding them up and deporting them would unclog over crowded education and criminal systems and help with the cost of health care. Decrease the demand on welfare and social services. The cost would even out.
> 
> As i have said before, ICE needs to take up portals of the emergency rooms and maternity wards.  No need to find anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you not read even the little I posted of the article?
> 
> 
> Why do you only use partial information to decide your postions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny you of all people should ask that question TM.
Click to expand...



I understand you have embarassed yourself and wish to turn this on me but it is very thinly vieled and silly


----------



## High_Gravity

So when a woman is going through labor in the hospital shes going to be asked to produce a birth certificate to prove she is an American? I wouldn't want the job of having to pester women in labor for documentation.


----------



## syrenn

Truthmatters said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you not read even the little I posted of the article?
> 
> 
> Why do you only use partial information to decide your postions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny you of all people should ask that question TM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I understand you have embarassed yourself and wish to turn this on me but it is very thinly vieled and silly
Click to expand...



No quite that simple tm.  Or are we being uncivil now?


----------



## syrenn

High_Gravity said:


> So when a woman is going through labor in the hospital shes going to be asked to produce a birth certificate to prove she is an American? I wouldn't want the job of having to pester women in labor for documentation.




Ya got 9 months to round one up.


----------



## Samson

Truthmatters said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/guideDesc.asp?catid=97&type=issue
> 
> 
> 
> Immigration regulations remained stable for the next four decades until everything was radically transformed by the 1965 Immigration Act, which set the ceiling for immigrants from the Western hemisphere at 120,000 per year while earmarking fully 170,000 slots for immigrants from nations outside the Western Hemisphere. For the first time in American history, non-Europeans formed the dominant immigrant group, the new arrivals hailing predominantly from Asia, Latin America, the Caribbean, and the Middle East. Between 1968 and 1993, fully 85 percent of the 16.7 million legal immigrants arriving in the United States during that period came from the Third World  including 47 percent from Latin America and the Caribbean, and 34 percent from Asia.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you realize how hard it is to come here legally?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We need to up the number of legal immigrations to make this anywhere near the number the businesses clamour for to run their businesses
Click to expand...


I think what you're trying to say is that businesses want to employ more immigrants.

And there's no unemployment in the USA?


----------



## LilOlLady

"*Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?* Quote 

Putting things in perspective, here is an excerpt from *how Thailand deals with not just illegal immigrants*, but *those who have overstayed their visa by even just one day:*

"It is important to remember that if your visa has expired even for *just one day*, and you do not surrender but are* apprehended by immigration officials or the police*, you will *automatically be taken to court*. If your court hearing is held on a Friday and you pay your fine the same day, in accordance with the court order, it does not mean that your case has ended. The Immigration Bureau still has to pursue your case by *deporting you*. Therefore, you will need to have a *confirmed air ticket together with sufficient money for transportation to the airport*. If you cannot meet those requirements, you will be *detained in the Immigration Bureau jail until you are able to acquire a confirmed ticket *and *sufficient cash for the trip to the airport*.
"Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?


Since our leaders are those who will not do the* job of enforcing our immigration laws*, maybe we should *import foreign entities *to do it for them. you know. *Jobs that Americans will not do?*


----------



## syrenn

LOL, works for me.


----------



## WillowTree

Well, evidently they won't do Wal Mart either. But just wait,, soon we will takce the problem of why the "black" man can't get a job and the illegals can..


----------



## Epsilon Delta

Well, you'll definitely create jobs that way, just think of all the prison guards you'll need if you do that. It'll do wonders towards reinforcing the backbone of America's prison-based economy, but then you also have to keep in mind that in Thailand the illegal immigrant population is 1/6th of what it is in America, proportionally speaking (0.7% vs 4%). Then again, that number was before the financial crisis and the record unemployment that's happening now, after which its estimated that millions have already left on their own. 

But hey, that brings about another interesting suggestion - why not let your bankers keep running your economy to the ground, so that there's no jobs, and therefore no illegal aliens will want to come in the first place?!??! That'd be a grand proposal towards saving the average American the intellectually demanding task of pressing "1" for English! And just like your prison idea, there could not possibly be any undesired consequences! =D


----------



## Epsilon Delta

Anyway, more seriously speaking, *there's no such thing as jobs "Americans won't do,"* one of the big myths running around in the immigration debate. Of course Americans would do any job - for the right WAGE. If picking strawberries payed $60 an hour and came with full health benefits, you'd see hundreds of people waiting in lines outside United Farm Workers for a shot at the job. You would only run into trouble at the supermarket, where strawberries would cost $100 a box, demand would totally collapse and all strawberry farms would go bankrupt (lest they were bailed out at your expense), thereby getting rid of not only the formerly-illegal-immigrant jobs, but their managers and owners and those of associated products (i.e. strawberry jam makers, strawberry container makers, strawberry transporting truckers, etc). But you can be sure that they would definitely do those jobs, for the right amount of money. If there's nobody who would pay that wage, then there will not be a job for anybody in the first place though.

That leads to the second giant myth about immigration: "they take our JERBS!" This point of view seems to think that the job supply is some static figure, there's X amount of jobs of which Y is stolen by immigrants, leaving Americans with X-Y amount of jobs. This is completely false: there is no set number of jobs in the country - the fact that there's some jobs being done or not being done may increase or decrease the amount of jobs available at any given time, and this figure is constantly changing. Like we saw, because there are a bunch of low-wage illegals picking strawberries and a range of other agricultural products, this makes possible the jobs of the owners, managers, transporters, container-makers for that particular industry. 

Now that's not necessarily a bad thing, it's not like every country has to make everything, there's no reason why the US should be producing its own food if it can't pay its legal workers enough to make it worthwhile for them and simultaneously cheap enough for anyone to buy it. If you think its worth it to bankrupt the agricultural industry (considering they're already subsidized to their eyeballs and STILL need low-wage illegals to be competitive in any way shape or form), then you should go gung-ho in writing your congressman about it and closing the border.


----------



## Nate

You make some great points Epsilon but IMHO, cheap labor in the agricultural sector is stifling innovation... Before, when farmers needed to keep competative and not be ran out of business those wily bastards invented. If they had the number of hand pickers back then that they seem to have today we probably wouldn't have the combine harvester, transplanters, cultivator, etc. Also, with NAFTA in place these same farm hands could be helping the fields in their own country without it costing us much more.


----------



## Epsilon Delta

Nate said:


> You make some great points Epsilon but IMHO, cheap labor in the agricultural sector is stifling innovation... Before, when farmers needed to keep competative and not be ran out of business those wily bastards invented. If they had the number of hand pickers back then that they seem to have today we probably wouldn't have the combine harvester, transplanters, cultivator, etc. Also, with NAFTA in place these same farm hands could be helping the fields in their own country without it costing us much more.



Well, that's not entirely true... Depending on what time in history you're thinking of, that "before" DID have a massive number of hand-pickers willing to work for next to nothing - in the 1930s they called them "Okies" or "Arkies" instead of Mexicans though, and a famous, if fictional, example would be Tom Joad and his family (because those Americans actually would work for the wage). Many of these dust bowlers worked at the exact same jobs that are occupied by today's illegals. And if they weren't there, it's not at all clear what "innovation" there would be, bankruptcy would be more likely [again, agriculture in much of the developed world is essentially a government-supported zombie, and is therefore doubtful to hold much innovation in this day and age]. 

Many crops simply can't be machine-picked anyway, and even if they were that sort of capital-intensive agriculture doesn't really create many long-term jobs. In any case, considering the US's weakening manufacturing base you'd probably end up buying the machines from China (because its cheaper), eliminating the illegal's jobs while simultaneously creating a grand total of 0 jobs at home.

And about that last point, in the event that the border's closed, and the strawberry industry moves to Mexico that might be great for Mexicans but I don't see how it would be of any benefit to Americans.  Again, merely less jobs in the States in total.


----------



## LilOlLady

Epsilon Delta said:


> Well, you'll definitely create jobs that way, just think of all the prison guards you'll need if you do that. It'll do wonders towards reinforcing the backbone of America's prison-based economy, but then you also have to keep in mind that in *Thailand the illegal immigrant population is 1/6th of what it is in America*, proportionally speaking (0.7% vs 4%). Then again, that number was before the financial crisis and the record unemployment that's happening now, after which its estimated that *millions have already left on their own*.
> 
> But hey, that brings about another interesting suggestion - why not let your *bankers keep running your economy to the ground*, so that there's no jobs, and therefore no illegal aliens will want to come in the first place?!??! That'd be a grand proposal towards saving the average American the intellectually demanding task of pressing "1" for English! And just like *your prison idea*, there could not possibly be any undesired consequences! =D



Thailand don't have an illegal immigrant problem because they immediate take care of visa overstayers and illegal aliens. We would not have 20 million illegals either if we enforced our immigration laws like Thailand. uh?
Bankers have nothing to do with bad choices we make. Banker caused the economy to fail:
Illegal immigration is destroying us and the future of our children. A direct correlation between illegal immigration and our economy failing.


----------



## LilOlLady

Epsilon Delta said:


> Well, you'll definitely create jobs that way, just think of all the prison guards you'll need if you do that. It'll do wonders towards reinforcing the backbone of America's prison-based economy, but then you also have to keep in mind that in Thailand the illegal immigrant population is 1/6th of what it is in America, proportionally speaking (0.7% vs 4%). Then again, that number was before the financial crisis and the record unemployment that's happening now, after which its estimated that millions have already left on their own.
> 
> But hey, that brings about another interesting suggestion - why not let your bankers keep running your economy to the ground, so that there's no jobs, and therefore *no illegal aliens will want to come in the first place*?!??! That'd be a grand proposal towards saving the average American the intellectually demanding task of pressing "1" for English! And just like your prison idea, there could not possibly be any undesired consequences! =D



Can you tell me how bankers run the economy into the ground?
The economy has gone bad for several years and they are still coming because we take care of them through their anchor babies.


----------



## Ernie S.

Epsilon Delta said:


> Well, you'll definitely create jobs that way, just think of all the prison guards you'll need if you do that.


 snip (worthless drivel removed)

You wouldn't need many new guards at all. Word would get around rather quickly and that big whooshing sound you'd hear is the sound of illegals tear-assing for the border in record numbers.
Added incentive would be to seize all US assets of illegals in partial repayment for services used while here illegally. Any remaining balance would be billed to their country of origin.


----------



## LilOlLady

*10% of Utah Households Receiving Welfare Benefits Have Illegal Aliens*
Thursday, August 5, 2010, 11:09 AM EST - posted on NumbersUSA

Utah State House
According to new state data in Utah, at least *10% of welfare benefits in the state are going to households that contain illegal aliens*. Under state law, illegal aliens cannot qualify for welfare expenses, but because many of the children of illegal aliens were born in the United States and are citizens, along with other scenarios, i*llegal aliens are indeed receiving state benefits*.

..................................................................................

"That is just one of many, many issues showing we need a crackdown on illegal immigration," said state Rep. Stephen Sandstrom who intends on offering Arizona-style legislation during the next state session. "*I believe this is just the tip of the iceberg.* Because of widespread fraud with Social Security numbers, I think a lot more illegal immigrants are applying for benefits with numbers that are *stolen or made up."*
10% of Utah Households Receiving Welfare Benefits Have Illegal Aliens | NumbersUSA - For Lower Immigration Levels


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Ernie S.*
> Any remaining balance would be billed to their country of origin.



And the bill would be subsequently returned with strong recommendations to be shoved up your ass together with a small note clarifying that neither Mexico nor any other country in the world have absolutely nothing to do and cannot be punished for the sovereign decision taken by the democratically elected US government to ignore its own immigration laws for 30 years.


----------



## Ernie S.

José;3235667 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *Ernie S.*
> Any remaining balance would be billed to their country of origin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the bill would be subsequently returned with strong recommendations to be shoved up your ass together with a small note clarifying that neither Mexico nor any other country in the world have absolutely nothing to do and cannot be punished for the sovereign decision taken by the democratically elected US government to ignore its own immigration laws for 30 years.
Click to expand...


Huh?


----------



## Ernie S.

So you thank me for my post? According to US immigration law, illegal immigrants are here illegally. Mexico is responsible for there being so many illegal Mexicans here. Besides the fact that Mexico is a corrupt hell hole, they actually publish guides on how to cross the border.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Ernie S.*
> So you thank me for my post? According to US immigration law, illegal immigrants are here illegally. Mexico is responsible for there being so many illegal Mexicans here. Besides the fact that Mexico is a corrupt hell hole, they actually publish guides on how to cross the border.



Ernie, if you take the time to read my posts on this matter you'll see I'm absolutely fair to America, I'm of the opinion that America has the right to implement even polemic measures such as mass deportations of illegals. 

Unfortunately I cannot say the same about your treatment of Mexico.

1 - Mexico cannot prevent its citizens from leaving the country freely because this goes against all the fundamental principles of democratic states. This is what totalitarian countries like North Korea do.

2 - Mexico cannot be blamed for being an underdeveloped, third world country. If America wants to blame Mexico for its poverty it should first turn that dirty poor country of Afghanistan into a developed nation since the country is currently under US control.

*AMERICA HAS ABSOLUTELY NO AUTHORITY TO DEMAND PROSPERITY FROM MEXICO IF SHE CANNOT BRING THAT SAME PROSPERITY TO ITS OWN "COLONIES".

THOSE WHO WANT TO POINT THE FINGER OF BLAME AT OTHERS SHOULD BE THE FIRST ONES TO SET A GOOD EXAMPLE!!!!*

3 - According to the international protocol that informally rules border relations between neighboring countries, in the absence of a broad comphehensive border agreement, *each country is resposible for its own side of the border*.

I urge you to get a hold of your totally out of control patriotism and try to treat Mexico in a fair manner just like I treat America, Ernie. : )


----------



## mudwhistle

Ernie S. said:


> So you thank me for my post? According to US immigration law, illegal immigrants are here illegally. Mexico is responsible for there being so many illegal Mexicans here. Besides the fact that Mexico is a corrupt hell hole, they actually publish guides on how to cross the border.



Millions of our dollars go into Mexico every year. 

Their President had the gall to chastise us for our laws yet he knows his are draconian in comparison.

And all the while he was talking smack about us Obama was standing back there with a smug grin on his face. 

Is there any wonder why I don't like the prick.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *mudwhistle*
> Millions of our dollars go into Mexico every year.



Sorry to burst your bubble but you got the wrong country. Millions of US dollars go to *ISRAEL* every year, not Mexico.

The amount of foreign aid given to Mexico in *1 YEAR *pales into insignificance when compared to what Israel gets in *30 DAYS*.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *mudwhistle*
> Their President had the gall to chastise us for our laws yet he knows his are draconian in comparison.
> 
> And all the while he was talking smack about us Obama was standing back there with a smug grin on his face.
> 
> Is there any wonder why I don't like the prick.



Calderon's remarks are the last motive in the universe that could be used to explain America's intractable immigration problem.

The *REAL REASON* the US immigration issue is never solved is because *THE SUPER PATRIOTIC AMERICAN CLOWNS OF THE US MESSAGE BOARD ARE TOO BUSY WHINING ABOUT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION AND CRUCIFYING MEXICO ON THE INTERNET TO GO TO WASHINGTON DC TO DEMAND THAT THEIR REPRESENTATIVES DO THE JOB THEY ARE PAID TO DO*.


----------



## WillowTree

mudwhistle said:


> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you thank me for my post? According to US immigration law, illegal immigrants are here illegally. Mexico is responsible for there being so many illegal Mexicans here. Besides the fact that Mexico is a corrupt hell hole, they actually publish guides on how to cross the border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Millions of our dollars go into Mexico every year.
> 
> Their President had the gall to chastise us for our laws yet he knows his are draconian in comparison.
> 
> And all the while he was talking smack about us Obama was standing back there with a smug grin on his face.
> 
> Is there any wonder why I don't like the prick.
Click to expand...


Ya know donchya that the great statesman Messiah's wonderful goverment car company built an 800 million dollar plant in Mexico? and that was after the great statesman messiah sold all the bondholder's and stockholder right down the rio grande?? you knew that didn't ya.. walll,,, we're supposed to vote for him anyway..


----------



## mammastevens

Illegal aliens are not IMMIGRANTS, they are federal criminals and should not be given my tax dollars. This isn't North Mexico!


----------



## Ernie S.

José;3235948 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *Ernie S.*
> So you thank me for my post? According to US immigration law, illegal immigrants are here illegally. Mexico is responsible for there being so many illegal Mexicans here. Besides the fact that Mexico is a corrupt hell hole, they actually publish guides on how to cross the border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ernie, if you take the time to read my posts on this matter you'll see I'm absolutely fair to America, I'm of the opinion that America has the right to implement even polemic measures such as mass deportations of illegals.
> 
> Unfortunately I cannot say the same about your treatment of Mexico.
> 
> 1 - Mexico cannot prevent its citizens from leaving the country freely because this goes against all the fundamental principles of democratic states. This is what totalitarian countries like North Korea do.
> 
> 2 - Mexico cannot be blamed for being an underdeveloped, third world country. If America wants to blame Mexico for its poverty it should first turn that dirty poor country of Afghanistan into a developed nation since the country is currently under US control.
> 
> *AMERICA HAS ABSOLUTELY NO AUTHORITY TO DEMAND PROSPERITY FROM MEXICO IF SHE CANNOT BRING THAT SAME PROSPERITY TO ITS OWN "COLONIES".
> 
> THOSE WHO WANT TO POINT THE FINGER OF BLAME AT OTHERS SHOULD BE THE FIRST ONES TO SET A GOOD EXAMPLE!!!!*
> 
> 3 - According to the international protocol that informally rules border relations between neighboring countries, in the absence of a broad comphehensive border agreement, *each country is resposible for its own side of the border*.
> 
> I urge you to get a hold of your totally out of control patriotism and try to treat Mexico in a fair manner just like I treat America, Ernie. : )
Click to expand...


I'm all about personal responsibility, even for nations. The US is far from perfect, but I fail to see what that has to do with the fact that Mexico is a third world hell hole that encourages it's citizens to illegally cross our border.
Mexico is a beautiful country blessed with great people many natural resources, a rich history and a healthy work ethic.
It's a shame that it's leaders are so corrupt that a country so blessed is starving when, given ethical government, should be on a par economically with Canada.


----------



## Speeddemon22

most of them do get paid more than the minimum wage

Yeah, I'll believe that when Satan's pushing a snowblower.  If that statement were true, those mofo's wouldn't need to hire illegal help in the first place.


----------



## José

> originally posted by *Ernie S.*
> it's a shame that it's leaders are so corrupt that a country so blessed is starving when, *given ethical government*, should be on a par economically with canada.



*Come on, America!! What are you waiting for to give "ethical government" to your overseas colony?? Why don't you put in practice in Afghanistan the same "ethical government" you say it would turn mexico into a wealthy nation??

Before blaming Mexico's corruption and unethical government America must put in practice her theories and turn Afghanistan into a developed nation. Countries that cannot bring prosperity to their own colonies have no moral authority to blame others!!

Come on, America!! Cut out the cheap talk and use Afghanistan to show Mexico how it's done!!

If you can't do it, shut up and stop demanding from Mexico what you failed miserably to achieve yourself!!*


----------



## Nate

José;3237006 said:
			
		

> originally posted by *Ernie S.*
> it's a shame that it's leaders are so corrupt that a country so blessed is starving when, *given ethical government*, should be on a par economically with canada.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Come on, America!! What are you waiting for to give "ethical government" to your overseas colony?? Why don't you put in practice in Afghanistan the same "ethical government" you say it would turn mexico into a wealthy nation??
> 
> Before blaming Mexico's corruption and unethical government America must put in practice her theories and turn Afghanistan into a developed nation. Countries that cannot bring prosperity to their own colonies have no moral authority to blame others!!
> 
> Come on, America!! Cut out the cheap talk and use Afghanistan to show Mexico how it's done!!
> 
> If you can't do it, shut up and stop demanding from Mexico what you failed miserably to achieve yourself!!*
Click to expand...


I've finally been here long enough to realize most of your posts like this is sarcasm José for i think you love this nation of ours as much as the next U.S. citizen but I gotta say, fuck Afganistan!!! Let Russia worry about them, as we should be with our Southern neighbors. As for what we're demanding from Mexico that we have failed miserably ourselves... What's that?


----------



## nraforlife

Epsilon Delta said:


> Anyway, more seriously speaking, *there's no such thing as jobs "Americans won't do,"* one of the big myths running around in the immigration debate. Of course Americans would do any job - for the right WAGE. If picking strawberries payed $60 an hour and came with full health benefits, you'd see hundreds of people waiting in lines outside United Farm Workers for a shot at the job. You would only run into trouble at the supermarket, where strawberries would cost $100 a box, demand would totally collapse and all strawberry farms would go bankrupt ...............



Your scenario is rather doubtful. IF wages for ag jobs such as pickers currently largely done by illegals were to pay the equal of a good blue collar job (not a gold plated position at the old GMC) say $25/hr plus perks you might see a one time rise in fresh fruit/veggie prices of maybe 15 - 20%. hardly unbearable to the consumer and largely offset by increased tax collections and lower social benefit costs to society as a whole.


----------



## FifthColumn

Epsilon Delta said:


> Anyway, more seriously speaking, *there's no such thing as jobs "Americans won't do,"* one of the big myths running around in the immigration debate. Of course Americans would do any job - for the right WAGE. If picking strawberries payed $60 an hour and came with full health benefits, you'd see hundreds of people waiting in lines outside United Farm Workers for a shot at the job. You would only run into trouble at the supermarket, where strawberries would cost $100 a box, demand would totally collapse and all strawberry farms would go bankrupt (lest they were bailed out at your expense), thereby getting rid of not only the formerly-illegal-immigrant jobs, but their managers and owners and those of associated products (i.e. strawberry jam makers, strawberry container makers, strawberry transporting truckers, etc). But you can be sure that they would definitely do those jobs, for the right amount of money. If there's nobody who would pay that wage, then there will not be a job for anybody in the first place though.
> 
> That leads to the second giant myth about immigration: "they take our JERBS!" This point of view seems to think that the job supply is some static figure, there's X amount of jobs of which Y is stolen by immigrants, leaving Americans with X-Y amount of jobs. This is completely false: there is no set number of jobs in the country - the fact that there's some jobs being done or not being done may increase or decrease the amount of jobs available at any given time, and this figure is constantly changing. Like we saw, because there are a bunch of low-wage illegals picking strawberries and a range of other agricultural products, this makes possible the jobs of the owners, managers, transporters, container-makers for that particular industry.
> 
> Now that's not necessarily a bad thing, it's not like every country has to make everything, there's no reason why the US should be producing its own food if it can't pay its legal workers enough to make it worthwhile for them and simultaneously cheap enough for anyone to buy it. If you think its worth it to bankrupt the agricultural industry (considering they're already subsidized to their eyeballs and STILL need low-wage illegals to be competitive in any way shape or form), then you should go gung-ho in writing your congressman about it and closing the border.


 
Since the US has a glut of lawyers and lawyers make bucks defending criminals, you can see why a lawyer would be the last person in the world to stop the crime sprees started by illegals............except in the lawyers own neighborhoods of course. 

Why do you think Luis Gutierrez moved out of his own district.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Nate*
> I've finally been here long enough to realize most of your posts like this is sarcasm José for i think you love this nation of ours as much as the next U.S. citizen but I gotta say, fuck Afganistan!!! Let Russia worry about them, as we should be with our Southern neighbors. As for what we're demanding from Mexico that we have failed miserably ourselves... What's that?



Nate, 

A lot of posters blame America's immigration problems on Mexico's poverty and Mexico's porverty on the "corruption" and "unethical government" among Mexico's politicians.

They say naive platitudes such as this:

"*The mexican people should get rid of its corrupt politicians and the country will be on its way to become a prousperous nation*" (as if Mexico hadn't already gone through dozens of revolutions, uprisings and democratic elections).

Even Epsilon Delta has said things along these lines!!!!

*They make it sound as if the extremely complex, poorly understood socio-economic-political process of economic development of nations were the easiest thing to implement!!*

As if all that is necessary to turn Mexico into a developed economy was to replace Mexico's political class!!

Mexico's poverty hurts the people of Mexico infinitely more than it hurts America with her illegal immigration problem. *If economic development had a definite, clear recipe the country would have become an economic powerhouse centuries ago*. If it were that simple there wouldn't be a single underdeveloped nation in the world!!

Answering your question directly, Nate, America demands from Mexico the same economic development she failed to bring to Cuba, Puerto Rico, Iraq and Afghanistan after ruling those 4 countries like colonies for decades!!!!


----------



## José

And let me make this absolutely clear, Nate:

I do not consider you a super patriotic american clown like Angelhair, LilOLady, Daveman, WillowTree, Ernie S., Bullfighter and so many others. I consider you a patriotic american who is reasonably fair to Mexico.

But let me tell you this. The double standards, the blatant contradiction of the super patriotic american clown regarding this particular issue is *ABSOLUTELY SCANDALOUS*:

Economic development is a simple, straightforward task when they demand it from Mexico (in order to solve the issue of illegal immigration in America).

But the same economic development *IS NOT* a simple, straightforward issue anymore when they try to make up thousands of excuses to justify America's *ABYSMAL FAILURE* to bring economic prosperity to its former and present colonies:

Cuba, Puerto Rico, Iraq and Afghanistan.

Economic development is a simple, easy task *AND* a complex, difficult task at the same time, depending on the political point they're trying to score at a given moment.


----------



## FifthColumn

José;3237633 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *Nate*
> I've finally been here long enough to realize most of your posts like this is sarcasm José for i think you love this nation of ours as much as the next U.S. citizen but I gotta say, fuck Afganistan!!! Let Russia worry about them, as we should be with our Southern neighbors. As for what we're demanding from Mexico that we have failed miserably ourselves... What's that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nate,
> 
> A lot of posters blame America's immigration problems on Mexico's poverty and Mexico's porverty on the "corruption" and "unethical government" among Mexico's politicians.
> 
> They say naive platitudes such as this:
> 
> "*The mexican people should get rid of its corrupt politicians and the country will be on its way to become a prousperous nation*" (as if Mexico hadn't already gone through dozens of revolutions, uprisings and democratic elections).
> 
> Even Epsilon Delta has said things alone these lines!!!!
> 
> *They make it sound as if the extremely complex, poorly understood socio-economic-political process of economic development of nations were the easiest thing to implement!!*
> 
> As if all that is necessary to turn Mexico into a developed economy was to replace Mexico's political class!!
> 
> Mexico's poverty hurts the people of Mexico infinitely more than it hurts America with her illegal immigration problem. *If economic development had a definite, clear recipe the country would have become an economic powerhouse centuries ago*. If it were that simple there wouldn't be a single underdeveloped nation in the world!!
> 
> Answering your question directly, Nate, America demands from Mexico the same economic development she failed to bring to Cuba, Puerto Rico, Iraq and Afghanistan after ruling those 4 countries like colonies for decades!!!!
Click to expand...

 
It is not up to the people of the United States to feed anyone other than their own poor, which they are not doing because the illegal LaRazians get there ahead of every other race. Force LaRaza to feed itself.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *FifthCollumn*
> It is not up to the people of the United States to feed anyone other than their own poor, which they are not doing because the illegal LaRazians get there ahead of every other race. Force LaRaza to feed itself.



Fair enough.

I would argue that economic development is an extremely complex, poorly understood and *LONG TERM* process and it's not within the power of any nation to achieve it through simple, short term measures. Some nations may never be able to achieve it no matter how hard they try.

Britain failed miserably in most of the British Empire: Nigeria, South Africa, India, Jamaica etc, etc...

America failed in Cuba, Puerto Rico, etc...

It's absolutely unrealistic and tremendously unfair to demand that Mexico wave its magic wand and become a prosperous nation in the short run.


----------



## Bill Angel

Speeddemon22 said:


> most of them do get paid more than the minimum wage
> 
> Yeah, I'll believe that when Satan's pushing a snowblower.  If that statement were true, those mofo's wouldn't need to hire illegal help in the first place.



My experience in Baltimore is that many jobs that pay mimimum wage or close to mimimum wage get filled my legal woekers. There is in Baltimore currently a SURPLUS of legal workers that show up at employment agencies to get these jobs. I admit that these are not physically greulling jobs like stoop labor on a farm, but many of the jobs do require working out of doors in harsh weather conditions.


----------



## FifthColumn

José;3237922 said:
			
		

> [Fair enough.
> 
> I would argue that economic development is an extremely complex, poorly understood and *LONG TERM* process and it's not within the power of any nation to achieve it through simple, short term measures. Some nations may never be able to achieve it no matter how hard they try.
> 
> Britain failed miserably in most of the British Empire: Nigeria, South Africa, India, Jamaica etc, etc...
> 
> America failed in Cuba, Puerto Rico, etc...
> 
> It's absolutely unrealistic and tremendously unfair to demand that Mexico wave its magic wand and become a prosperous nation in the short run.


 
But it seems to me that those third world nations would have done much better with a "Teach me, Mr USA!" attitude rather than "Yankee, Go Home"!


----------



## FifthColumn

Bill Angel said:


> Speeddemon22 said:
> 
> 
> 
> most of them do get paid more than the minimum wage
> 
> Yeah, I'll believe that when Satan's pushing a snowblower. If that statement were true, those mofo's wouldn't need to hire illegal help in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My experience in Baltimore is that many jobs that pay mimimum wage or close to mimimum wage get filled my legal woekers. There is in Baltimore currently a SURPLUS of legal workers that show up at employment agencies to get these jobs. I admit that these are not physically greulling jobs like stoop labor on a farm, but many of the jobs do require working out of doors in harsh weather conditions.
Click to expand...

 
But I'm sure the Mexicans who pick crops gladly do it over what drafted American GIs did in World War 2. Why don't they teach that in public schools?


----------



## Jackson

We will have to stop Unemployment benefits sometime..and possibly entitlements will be cut as well.  Get the illegals out of the way.  The kids who drop out of school will fill those not so clean jobs and pick the crops.  Maybe it will lead them back to school when they see this as their future.

  We need all jobs.  Start the hefty fines for employers!


----------



## SAJason

The 14th amendment was for newly freed slaves not people who owe allegiance to another country. We should not be giving them anything. We are handing out billions in welfare to people who broke the law to get here and the majority continually break the law to stay here. Who's to say these people don't have jobs on top of the welfare they are getting? It's not enough that they get free health care, bankrupting hospitals in the process. Why is it that so many people in the US don't give a crap about their own country.


----------



## LilOlLady

WillowTree said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you thank me for my post? According to US immigration law, illegal immigrants are here illegally. Mexico is responsible for there being so many illegal Mexicans here. Besides the fact that Mexico is a corrupt hell hole, they actually publish guides on how to cross the border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Millions of our dollars go into Mexico every year.
> 
> Their President had the gall to chastise us for our laws yet he knows his are draconian in comparison.
> 
> And all the while he was talking smack about us Obama was standing back there with a smug grin on his face.
> 
> Is there any wonder why I don't like the prick.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya know donchya that the great statesman Messiah's wonderful goverment car company built an 800 million dollar plant in Mexico? and that was after the great statesman messiah sold all the bondholder's and stockholder right down the rio grande?? you knew that didn't ya.. walll,,, we're supposed to vote for him anyway..
Click to expand...


You know referring to obama as the Messiah and the anointed one is blasphemy.


----------



## Angelhair

_America does not have to demand ANYTHING from Mexico.  It just has to stop treating it like a step-child or adopted child - no more dolars; no more help - period!  Let them sink or swim.   Give them enough rope and they will hang themselves and the USA will not have to lift ONE LITTLE FINGER.   But FIRST - put the military at the border.  Really - who gives a f*** about that GOD forsaken country???  The more the USA does, the more they hate us.  They are so egotistical that they cut off their nose to spite their face.  Actually, let them go communist/socialist.  We have poured in billions of dollars to keep them from going in that direction - it's time to cut them loose._


----------



## FifthColumn

Ravi said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do i delete a post????
> 
> 
> 
> Ask an illegal immigrant to do it for you...the vast majority of them are smarter than you.
Click to expand...

 
How do you delete illegal "immigrants"?


----------



## LilOlLady

Douger said:


> FifthColumn said:
> 
> 
> 
> But you must begin by teaching American children that these invading illegals are evil and will destroy the American way of life.
> 
> 
> 
> So my buddy in Miami, Juan Pablo, who is from Honduras, has a schoolteacher wife and two little girls back home, lays 600 block a day, 7 days a week,* is evil.*The kikes that run the IRS don't have any trouble collecting his "illegal" tax dollars from his check every week. Chosen, not evil.
> 
> I know. You're uh murkin. A brainwashed idiot on a superiority trip.
Click to expand...


Depend on if your buddy is illegal. If he is he is not evil but just a criminal. It is a federal crime to enter this country illegally and use false or stolen documents to work here. Being poor is not exuse to break the law. If it were a lot of criminals would not be in jail. 
Why the hell is he here if is wife is a school teacher? What do 600 blocks got to do with anything? Unless he is a brick layer and has taken a job away from an american or legal immigration.


----------



## LilOlLady

José;3236007 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *mudwhistle*
> Millions of our dollars go into Mexico every year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to burst your bubble but you got the wrong country. Millions of US dollars go to *ISRAEL* every year, not Mexico.
> 
> The amount of foreign aid given to Mexico in *1 YEAR *pales into insignificance when compared to what Israel gets in *30 DAYS*.
Click to expand...

Jose Jalapena; How much aid we give to Mexico compared to Isreal is not the point. Neither should happen, but the point is we do give aid to Mexico and Mexico is killing us. We are supporting corruption in Mexico and not the people.
This is not our problem and we should not make it our problem.
The people of Mexico need to go home, revolt and change things in Mexico for all Mexicans. Not tucking their tail and running. Oh, well they are good at that. Our economy has sent tucking their tails and running back home.

 Mexico is a member of the North America Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) and shares a 2,000-mile border with the United States. Mexico is the *12th largest economy in the *world and the* third largest trading partner of the U.S*. It had *$11 billion in foreign direct investment *and *received $23 billion in remittances in 2009*. Yet Mexico still faces *huge gaps between rich and poor*, north and south, urban and rural. *Over 40% of the country&#8217;s population is poor *(living on *less than $2 per day*), while close to 18% is extremely poor (living on less than $1 per day).

USAID - Latin America & Caribbean: Latin America & the Caribbean


A* Conservative Estimate of Total Direct U.S. Aid to Israel: Almost $114 Billion*
By Shirl McArthur
http://wrmea.org/component/content/...rect-us-aid-to-israel-almost-114-billion.html

*Aid to Mexico and Isreal need to stop.*


----------



## LilOlLady

angelhair said:


> _america does not have to demand anything from mexico.  It just has to stop treating it like a step-child or adopted child - no more dolars; no more help - period!  *Let them sink or swim.*   Give them enough rope and they will hang themselves and the usa will not have to lift one little finger.   But first - put the military at the border.  Really - who gives a f*** about that god forsaken country???  The more the usa does, the more they hate us.  They are so egotistical that they cut off their nose to spite their face.  Actually, let them go communist/socialist.  We have poured in billions of dollars to keep them from going in that direction - it's time to cut them loose._




tough love, uh?
If we stop being a safety net for Mexico, they would have to get their act together.


----------



## LilOlLady

*The Rise of Radical Islam in Mexico*
January 16, 2011


The comparison here is drawn by observing the result of balkanization brought on by these two groups of people, and the intent by the ruling class to use these groups for this end. There is also a blending of the radicalism of both groups, currently* Islamic radicalism is taking hold in Mexico and Cartels are adopting terrorist tactics.*

Certainly the exploration should be about the blending of radicalism, which is inevitable, but more to their role in *disrupting American culture*. Regardless of religion, the components here are ignored as the MSM does not want any more reasons to close the border.

The recruiting buzzphrase in *Mexico is &#8220;revert&#8221; to Islam*, not conversion, as will be explained in their own words.

The Rise of Radical Islam in Mexico - Grendel Report


----------



## LilOlLady

NRO Debates: *Dealing with illegal immigrants should be a top priority of the war on terror*.
By Tamar Jacoby, Mark Krikorian 
February 2003
Op-eds and Magazine Articles

National Review Online, February 12, 2003
Most Americans understand that immigration control is a critical tool for protecting America's national interests. A Zogby International poll taken in the wake of the 9/11 attacks found that the overwhelming majority of Americans, across all races, regions, incomes, and political beliefs, blamed lax border control and screening of immigrants for contributing to the attacks and believed that improved immigration enforcement would reduce the likelihood of future atrocities.

Nor is this mere scapegoating. Terrorists have exploited all aspects of our feckless immigration system to penetrate our society. Our 2002 report on the immigration histories of the (then-) 48 foreign-born, radical Muslim terrorists who committed crimes in the U.S. since 1993, one-quarter were illegal aliens when they committed their crimes and close to half of the total had documented violations of the immigration law at one point or another. Out of that 48, 19 were the 9/11 hijackers and not one of the 15 whose visa applications escaped shredding should have been granted a visa.

Also, amnesties for illegal aliens have facilitated terrorism. Mahmud "The Red" Abouhalima, a leader of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, was legalized as a seasonal agricultural worker (he was actually a cabbie in New York) as part of the 1986 amnesty, which allowed him to travel abroad, including several trips to Afghanistan, where he received terrorist training.


NRO Debates: Dealing with illegal immigrants should be a top priority of the war on terror. | Center for Immigration Studies


----------



## High_Gravity

I've never met any Mexican Muslims.


----------



## LilOlLady

High_Gravity said:


> I've never met any Mexican Muslims.



How many Mexican do you know? and do you ask what religion they are.


----------



## High_Gravity

LilOlLady said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never met any Mexican Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many Mexican do you know? and do you ask what religion they are.
Click to expand...


I know several Mexicans and they are Catholics.


----------



## Sunni Man

High_Gravity said:


> I've never met any Mexican Muslims.


I personally know several Mexican muslims.

Mexican and Central American people accepting Islam is growing quite rapidly.

There are 4 fairly new all Spanish speaking Mosques right along the U.S./Mexican border.

They are located in the Texas towns of Edinburg, McAllen, Weslaco, and Brownsville.

Mexican people easily convert to Islam because they like the conservative and family oriented values inherent in the religion.


----------



## High_Gravity

Sunni Man said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never met any Mexican Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> I personally know several Mexican muslims.
> 
> Mexican and Central American people accepting Islam is growing quite rapidly.
> 
> There are 4 fairly new all Spanish speaking Mosques right along the U.S./Mexican border.
> 
> They are located in the Texas towns of Edinburg, McAllen, Weslaco, and Brownsville.
> 
> Mexican people easily convert to Islam because they like the conservative and family oriented values inherent in the religion.
Click to expand...


Well there are Muslims from every country in the world, still the majority of them are Catholics. I don't think radical Islam is converting Mexicans en masse like the poster is saying though.


----------



## Sunni Man

*PRAYING TO ALLAH IN MEXICO*

By Jens Glüsing

Long a bastion of Catholicism, southern Mexico is quickly turning into a battleground for soul-savers. Islam, too, is gaining a foothold and the indigenous Mayans are converting by the hundreds. The Mexican government is worried about a culture clash in their own backyard.

Anastasio Gomez, a Tzotzil Mayan from Mexico, fondly remembers his pilgrimage to Mecca. He circled around the Kaaba, the highest sanctuary of Muslims, seven times. At Mount Arafat he prayed to Allah and then he, together with 15 other Indians, sacrificed a sheep before boarding the flight back to their Mexican home.

&#8220;In Islam, race plays no role,&#8221; the young man says joyously. His enthusiasm is understandable. After all, in his home state of Chiapas, Mexico&#8217;s poorest, the indigenous people are viewed as second class humans, and whites and Mestizos treat the Indian majority as if they weren&#8217;t there. In the southern Mexican provincial metropolis San Cristóbal de las Casas, the descendants of the Maya even have to move onto the street if a white person approaches them on the sidewalk.


Mexican Maya embrace Islam  ADAMITE


----------



## High_Gravity

Sunni Man said:


> *PRAYING TO ALLAH IN MEXICO*
> 
> By Jens Glüsing
> 
> Long a bastion of Catholicism, southern Mexico is quickly turning into a battleground for soul-savers. Islam, too, is gaining a foothold and the indigenous Mayans are converting by the hundreds. The Mexican government is worried about a culture clash in their own backyard.
> 
> Anastasio Gomez, a Tzotzil Mayan from Mexico, fondly remembers his pilgrimage to Mecca. He circled around the Kaaba, the highest sanctuary of Muslims, seven times. At Mount Arafat he prayed to Allah and then he, together with 15 other Indians, sacrificed a sheep before boarding the flight back to their Mexican home.
> 
> In Islam, race plays no role, the young man says joyously. His enthusiasm is understandable. After all, in his home state of Chiapas, Mexicos poorest, the indigenous people are viewed as second class humans, and whites and Mestizos treat the Indian majority as if they werent there. In the southern Mexican provincial metropolis San Cristóbal de las Casas, the descendants of the Maya even have to move onto the street if a white person approaches them on the sidewalk.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5PpD9JqCsc
> 
> Mexican Maya embrace Islam  ADAMITE



Interesting, I didn't know that.


----------



## Sunni Man

*Muslims in the Caribbean*

Khan, president of the Guyana-based Islamic Missionaries Guild International, is one of nearly 400,000 Muslims scattered across the nations of the Caribbean. Mostly East Indian in origin, they live in relative prosperity on at least a dozen Caribbean islands, including Barbados, Grenada, Dominica, Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands and Jamaica.

The region's heaviest Muslim concentrations, however, are in Suriname, with an estimated 100,000 believers, in Trinidad and Tobago, also home to 100,000 Muslims, and in Guyana, with an estimated Muslim population of 120,000.

Travel agents like to promote Trinidad as a tropical Caribbean paradise, an ideal vacation spot throbbing with calypso, carnival and steel bands.

But Trinidad is also the focus of Muslim life in the Caribbean. Last August, Saudi Arabia's Prince Muhammad ibn Faysal visited to address the 24th international convention of the Islamic Missionaries Guild. The oil-rich island, smaller than Brunei or the state of Delaware, boasts the western hemisphere's highest concentration of mosques - 85 in all - a Muslim speaker of the house in veteran politician Nizam Mohammed, and even a Muslim president, Noor Mohammed Hassanali.

Saudi Aramco World : Muslims in the Caribbean


----------



## editec

As if poor Mexico doesn't have enough problems?


----------



## Ropey

I'd rather see Prince Muhammad deal with the extreme inbreeding of his country which is higher than even Pakistan. As high as seventy percent of Muslims in Saudi Arabia marry their first cousins. Yes, they are easier to control. This is the true dummy down of Arabians.

Muslims in Mexico will not have this cultural sickness.  Go Mexico!  Maybe  you can change the Arabians inbreeding. 



> Minister warns of &#8216;inbred&#8217; Muslims





> A government minister has warned that inbreeding among immigrants is causing a surge in birth defects - comments likely to spark a new row over the place of Muslims in British society.
> 
> Phil Woolas, an environment minister, said the culture of arranged marriages between first cousins was the &#8220;elephant in the room&#8221;. Woolas, a former race relations minister, said: &#8220;If you have a child with your cousin the likelihood is there&#8217;ll be a genetic problem.&#8221;
> 
> The minister, whose views were supported by medical experts this weekend, said: &#8220;The issue we need to debate is first cousin marriages, whereby a lot of arranged marriages are with first cousins, and that produces lots of genetic problems in terms of disability [in children].&#8221;
> 
> Medical research suggests that while British Pakistanis are responsible for 3% of all births, they account for one in three British children born with genetic illnesses.





> &#8220;I have encountered cases of blindness and deafness. There was one poor girl who had to have an oxygen tank on her back and breathe from a hole in the front of her neck.
> 
> &#8220;The parents were warned they should not have any more children. But when the husband returned again from Pakistan, they had another child with exactly the same condition.&#8221;



This is the true Cultural Issue. PC or not. To my view, this is why the cultural interpretations are often quite insane. 

*Click*


----------



## Sunni Man

Ropey this is totally   and just another example of you Trolling in order to wreck threads.


----------



## Ropey

Sunni Man said:


> Ropey this is totally   and just another example of you Trolling in order to wreck threads.



Not at all. I am speaking to how I hope that the Muslims who do not come from the Arabian culture and who do not inbreed can possibly reform this cultural act. Mexico may well help Arabian Islam to reform.

That's on topic.


----------



## Sunni Man

Ropey said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ropey this is totally   and just another example of you Trolling in order to wreck threads.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all. I am speaking to how I hope that the Muslims who do not come from the Arabian culture and who do not inbreed can possibly reform this cultural act. Mexico may well help Arabian Islam to reform.
> 
> That's on topic.
Click to expand...

Yea, right.


----------



## Sunni Man

For anyone else, the thread title is, "The rise of radical islam in mexico"

Thank You


----------



## Ropey

Sunni Man said:


> For anyone else, the thread title is, "The rise of radical islam in mexico"
> 
> Thank You



And I am speaking to how I believe Radical Arabian Islam and Inbreeding are connected.   And how I don't see inbreeding in the culture of Mexico so not a worry for Mexico and thus not a worry about Radical Islam in Mexico. 

Nu?


----------



## High_Gravity

Mexican Muslims cannot change Islam Ropey, if they try the rest of the Muslim world will view them as illegitimate, they either fall in line or thats it.


----------



## Ropey

High_Gravity said:


> Mexican Muslims cannot change Islam Ropey, if they try the rest of the Muslim world will view them as illegitimate, they either fall in line or thats it.



The change will come from without HG, not within. The Vatican's changes are not coming because the Pope wants these changes.

They are being demanded from without. When Mexico begins to create their own Imams, they will start to demand their own changes in Mexico. This will happen to many worldwide Muslim communities. Already Arabians are a minority in Islam. There are more non Arabian Muslims in the world than Arabian Muslims.  Reformation must come. (to my view)

This happens with both Judaism and Christianity. I say it might well happen with Islam as well.


----------



## Sunni Man

Ropey said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone else, the thread title is, "The rise of radical islam in mexico"
> 
> Thank You
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I am speaking to how I believe Radical Arabian Islam and Inbreeding are connected.  :
Click to expand...

This is my last post on this thread thanks to Ropey's thread wrecking and trolling.

btw Inbreeding in Israel among the Jews is epidemic and leads to the mental illness known as Zionism.


----------



## Ropey

Sunni Man said:


> btw Inbreeding in Israel among the Jews is epidemic and leads to the mental illness known as Zionism.



And you can't even debate an inbred Israeli ? You have to run away rather than continue the discussion? 



> The Law of Israel forbade inbreeding. The laws of gentiles did not, and this may help explain (although there were other factors, most dealing with obedience to God) why the average Jew in the Roman world lived longer than their gentile contemporaries.



It is against modern Israel Law as well.

*Click*


----------



## High_Gravity

Its against the law here in the US as well.


----------



## Angelhair

_It's the indigenous mexicans who will convert at a rapid pace._


----------



## Nate

This is just fear mongering towards Mexicans! We have quite a few Islamic converts here in the U.S. probably more so than down there... now I'm all about getting rid of our illegal immigration problem and securing our borders but this isn't a reason!


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

High_Gravity said:


> I've never met any Mexican Muslims.



How do you know?


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *LilOlLady*
> *Jose Jalapena*


         

     

        

I think I'm gonna change my screen name to José Jalapena or Mr. Nachos inspired by Mr. Sauerkraut from Germany.


----------



## José

LilOlLady's post showed a lot of promise... I couldn't agree more. America is totally free to reduce her foreign aid to 0 if the country deems it to be in its best interest.



> How much aid we give to Mexico compared to Isreal is not the point. Neither should happen



But as it often happens with super patriotic clowns the desire to blame others for her country's problems was just too great to resist...



> But the point is we do give aid to Mexico and *Mexico is killing us*.



tsk, tsk, tsk...


----------



## FifthColumn

José;3235948 said:
			
		

> [
> 1 - Mexico cannot prevent its citizens from leaving the country freely because this goes against all the fundamental principles of democratic states. This is what totalitarian countries like North Korea do.
> 
> 2 - Mexico cannot be blamed for being an underdeveloped, third world country. If America wants to blame Mexico for its poverty it should first turn that dirty poor country of Afghanistan into a developed nation since the country is currently under US control.
> 
> *AMERICA HAS ABSOLUTELY NO AUTHORITY TO DEMAND PROSPERITY FROM MEXICO IF SHE CANNOT BRING THAT SAME PROSPERITY TO ITS OWN "COLONIES".*
> 
> *THOSE WHO WANT TO POINT THE FINGER OF BLAME AT OTHERS SHOULD BE THE FIRST ONES TO SET A GOOD EXAMPLE!!!!*
> 
> 3 - According to the international protocol that informally rules border relations between neighboring countries, in the absence of a broad comphehensive border agreement, *each country is resposible for its own side of the border*.
> 
> I urge you to get a hold of your totally out of control patriotism and try to treat Mexico in a fair manner just like I treat America, Ernie. : )


 

Hmmmmm?



> 1 - Mexico cannot prevent its citizens from leaving the country freely because this goes against all the fundamental principles of democratic states.


 
Even though MEXICAN PRESIDENTS have promised the American people that they will do this since the late 1950's?



> 2 - Mexico cannot be blamed for being an underdeveloped, third world country. If America wants to blame Mexico for its poverty it should first turn that dirty poor country of Afghanistan into a developed nation since the country is currently under US control.


 
You can't expect third world helper monkeys to actually control themselves and stop breeding like rats now can you.



> 3 - According to the international protocol that informally rules border relations between neighboring countries, in the absence of a broad comphehensive border agreement, *each country is resposible for its own side of the border*.


 
So Mexico *IS* responsible for its own people and to keep those people inside its own border. Countries in the eastern hemisphere have no problem taking back their own people when they try to sneak into other countries, what's with Mexico and the rest of Latin America?


----------



## José

Speeddemon writes me an angry message asking me if I don't understand that a prosperous Mexico would be good for both countries. It never ceases to amaze me just how badly you can be misunderstood on the Net no matter how clearly you try to get your message across. Of course a wealthy Mexico would be a gift to both Mexico and America, demon. The only problem is how to get there.

I'm sick and tired of USMB members regurgitating the same line over and over:

Mexico should do

*a)

b)

c)*

to become a rich country (and help solve the US problem with illegals).

Well, America ruled Puerto Rico and Cuba as overseas colonies for 50 years. The two countries had *MUCH LESS AUTONOMY THAN ANY US STATE*.

America had half a century to do

*a)

b)

c)*

to turn Puerto Rico and cuba into first world nations and failed miserably.

Today more Puerto Ricans live in America than in Puerto Rico itself and the country is not in worse shape only because it is still a US colony in many ways.

The members of this Board talk about economic growth as if it were as simple as a cake recipe!!!! If it is that simple why America failed in PR, Cuba and now in Iraq and Afghanistan?

So stop demanding from Mexico the very same thing America failed to deliver in so many parts of the world!!


----------



## Douger

LilOlLady said:


> "*Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?* Quote
> 
> Putting things in perspective, here is an excerpt from *how Thailand deals with not just illegal immigrants*, but *those who have overstayed their visa by even just one day:*
> 
> "It is important to remember that if your visa has expired even for *just one day*, and you do not surrender but are* apprehended by immigration officials or the police*, you will *automatically be taken to court*. If your court hearing is held on a Friday and you pay your fine the same day, in accordance with the court order, it does not mean that your case has ended. The Immigration Bureau still has to pursue your case by *deporting you*. Therefore, you will need to have a *confirmed air ticket together with sufficient money for transportation to the airport*. If you cannot meet those requirements, you will be *detained in the Immigration Bureau jail until you are able to acquire a confirmed ticket *and *sufficient cash for the trip to the airport*.
> "Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
> 
> 
> Since our leaders are those who will not do the* job of enforcing our immigration laws*, maybe we should *import foreign entities *to do it for them. you know. *Jobs that Americans will not do?*



I'm in Costa Rica as I type.If you roll into the airport, or border, and you have overstayed your visa it's $100 per month of overstay. If you overstay a month you cannot return for 3. 2 months = 6 months etc.
If you want to be a resident you have to have an *external* income of $1000/mo.( proven), you can not be employed( self employed is fine but that income doesn't qualify for residency) and you can NEVER be eligible to vote...........unless you were born here.


----------



## José

Now I'm pretty sure Mexico can obtain a small improvement in the living conditions of its citizens if the mexican government implemented the correct economic measures. But this small improvement would not have any noticeable impact on illegal immigration into the US.

There's no magic wand that can be waved to turn Mexico into a first world country. Anything other than little improvements is wishful thinking.


----------



## FifthColumn

José;3248298 said:
			
		

> Speeddemon writes me an angry message asking me if I don't understand that a prosperous Mexico would be good for both countries. It never ceases to amaze me just how badly you can be misunderstood on the Net no matter how clearly you try to get your message across. Of course a wealthy Mexico would be a gift to both Mexico and America, demon. The only problem is how to get there.
> 
> I'm sick and tired of USMB members regurgitating the same line over and over:
> 
> Mexico should do
> 
> *a)*
> 
> *b)*
> 
> *c)*
> 
> to become a rich country (and help solve the US problem with illegals).
> 
> Well, America ruled Puerto Rico and Cuba as overseas colonies for 50 years. The two countries had *MUCH LESS AUTONOMY THAN ANY US STATE*.
> 
> America had half a century to do
> 
> *a)*
> 
> *b)*
> 
> *c)*
> 
> to turn Puerto Rico and cuba into first world nations and failed miserably.
> 
> Today more Puerto Ricans live in America than in Puerto Rico itself and the country is not in worse shape only because it is still a US colony in many ways.
> 
> The members of this Board talk about economic growth as if it were as simple as a cake recipe!!!! If it is that simple why America failed in PR, Cuba and now in Iraq and Afghanistan?
> 
> So stop demanding from Mexico the very same thing America failed to deliver in so many parts of the world!!


 

America controls Cuba? What underground bunker do you live in? Ever hear of Castro?

And Puerto Ricans can't even decided if they want Puerto Rico to be independant. They are so used to sucking on the tit of the Statue of Liberty!


----------



## Jackson

Douger said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> "*Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?* Quote
> 
> Putting things in perspective, here is an excerpt from *how Thailand deals with not just illegal immigrants*, but *those who have overstayed their visa by even just one day:*
> 
> "It is important to remember that if your visa has expired even for *just one day*, and you do not surrender but are* apprehended by immigration officials or the police*, you will *automatically be taken to court*. If your court hearing is held on a Friday and you pay your fine the same day, in accordance with the court order, it does not mean that your case has ended. The Immigration Bureau still has to pursue your case by *deporting you*. Therefore, you will need to have a *confirmed air ticket together with sufficient money for transportation to the airport*. If you cannot meet those requirements, you will be *detained in the Immigration Bureau jail until you are able to acquire a confirmed ticket *and *sufficient cash for the trip to the airport*.
> "Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?
> 
> 
> Since our leaders are those who will not do the* job of enforcing our immigration laws*, maybe we should *import foreign entities *to do it for them. you know. *Jobs that Americans will not do?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in Costa Rica as I type.If you roll into the airport, or border, and you have overstayed your visa it's $100 per month of overstay. If you overstay a month you cannot return for 3. 2 months = 6 months etc.
> If you want to be a resident you have to have an *external* income of $1000/mo.( proven), you can not be employed( self employed is fine but that income doesn't qualify for residency) and you can NEVER be eligible to vote...........unless you were born here.
Click to expand...


Very interesting, Douger, Thanks.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *FifthColumn*
> So Mexico IS responsible for its own people and to keep those people inside its own border. Countries in the eastern hemisphere have no problem taking back their own people when they try to sneak into other countries, what's with Mexico and the rest of Latin America?



Absolutely wrong... 

Mexican citizens who hug or climb the border fence are not doing anything wrong and cannot be harassed by Mexican authorities. They only commit a misdemeanor when they jump to the american side and by then they are not under Mexico's jurisdiction anymore unless you want the federales to invade american soil to arrest Mexicans.

From that moment on they become America's problem. The same goes for american illegal weapons smuggled into Mexico.


----------



## signelect

As long as we keep extending the unemployment payment a lot Americans won't work.  Stop paying them to sit home and see what happens.  Stop supporting people who have broken the law with welfare.  Anchor babies is a joke.  Why do you think a lot of them come over here.  We are the only country that I know of who is having this debate..  What does that tell you.


----------



## signelect

I heard a congress man say that Social Security was an entitlement program.  Money that I was force to give the government with out interest and belongs to me is an entitlement.  if that is the case maybe I should give us my citizen ship, move to Mexico, break into the US and apply for aid.  We have lost our minds.


----------



## High_Gravity

FifthColumn said:


> José;3248298 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speeddemon writes me an angry message asking me if I don't understand that a prosperous Mexico would be good for both countries. It never ceases to amaze me just how badly you can be misunderstood on the Net no matter how clearly you try to get your message across. Of course a wealthy Mexico would be a gift to both Mexico and America, demon. The only problem is how to get there.
> 
> I'm sick and tired of USMB members regurgitating the same line over and over:
> 
> Mexico should do
> 
> *a)*
> 
> *b)*
> 
> *c)*
> 
> to become a rich country (and help solve the US problem with illegals).
> 
> Well, America ruled Puerto Rico and Cuba as overseas colonies for 50 years. The two countries had *MUCH LESS AUTONOMY THAN ANY US STATE*.
> 
> America had half a century to do
> 
> *a)*
> 
> *b)*
> 
> *c)*
> 
> to turn Puerto Rico and cuba into first world nations and failed miserably.
> 
> Today more Puerto Ricans live in America than in Puerto Rico itself and the country is not in worse shape only because it is still a US colony in many ways.
> 
> The members of this Board talk about economic growth as if it were as simple as a cake recipe!!!! If it is that simple why America failed in PR, Cuba and now in Iraq and Afghanistan?
> 
> So stop demanding from Mexico the very same thing America failed to deliver in so many parts of the world!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> America controls Cuba? What underground bunker do you live in? Ever hear of Castro?
> 
> And Puerto Ricans can't even decided if they want Puerto Rico to be independant. They are so used to sucking on the tit of the Statue of Liberty!
Click to expand...


Puerto Rico is overcrowded right and getting a job there is tough, if the US let them go they would be Mexico on an island.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *High_Gravity*
> Puerto Rico is overcrowded right and getting a job there is tough, if the US let them go they would be Mexico on an island.


True. And even being associated with the US, PR is still a poor country. Check out these numbers:

*Median household income*

*Mississippi* (the poorest state of the Union): *$36,338*

*Puerto Rico*:------------------------------- *$17,741*

The heart of the matter is that people here desperately want to find a way to blame Mexico for the illegal problem in America and a subtle way to do it is to blame Mexico's underdevelopment entirely on its political class.

So you have to put up with these moronic statements:

*Mexico could easily become a developed nation. All the mexican people have to do is get rid of their politicians, shout ABRACADABRA and wish upon a star.*

All is fair when it comes to blaming Mexico for the dereliction of US immigration service.


----------



## High_Gravity

José;3249267 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *High_Gravity*
> Puerto Rico is overcrowded right and getting a job there is tough, if the US let them go they would be Mexico on an island.
> 
> 
> 
> True. And even being associated with the US, PR is still a poor country. Check out these numbers:
> 
> *Median household income*
> 
> *Mississippi* (the poorest state of the Union): *$36,338*
> 
> *Puerto Rico*:------------------------------- *$17,741*
> 
> The heart of the matter is that people here desperately want to find a way to blame Mexico for the illegal problem in America and a subtle way to do it is to blame Mexico's underdevelopment entirely on its political class.
> 
> So you have to put up with these moronic statements:
> 
> *Mexico could easily become a developed nation. All the mexican people have to do is get rid of their politicians, shout ABRACADABRA and wish upon a star.*
> 
> All is fair when it comes to blaming Mexico for the dereliction of US immigration service.
Click to expand...


A friend of mine in the Military was Puerto Rican and he told me how it was there, going to Puerto Rico for vacations is alot of fun but actually living there is another matter, he told me alot of people join the Military so they can leave there because there are so few good jobs available. I don't see how the Puerto Ricans who want independence think they can live on their own without the help of the US.


----------



## FifthColumn

José;3248478 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *FifthColumn*
> So Mexico IS responsible for its own people and to keep those people inside its own border. Countries in the eastern hemisphere have no problem taking back their own people when they try to sneak into other countries, what's with Mexico and the rest of Latin America?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely wrong...
> 
> Mexican citizens who hug or climb the border fence are not doing anything wrong and cannot be harassed by Mexican authorities. They only commit a misdemeanor when they jump to the american side and by then they are not under Mexico's jurisdiction anymore unless you want the federales to invade american soil to arrest Mexicans.
> 
> From that moment on they become America's problem. The same goes for american illegal weapons smuggled into Mexico.
Click to expand...

 
Utter nonsense!

Why is Mexico giving out handbooks on how to sneak into the US and how to behave if caught. Seems to me that is what you give spies when you tell them to go behind enemy lines.


----------



## LilOlLady

High_Gravity said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never met any Mexican Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> I personally know several Mexican muslims.
> 
> Mexican and Central American people accepting Islam is growing quite rapidly.
> 
> There are 4 fairly new all Spanish speaking Mosques right along the U.S./Mexican border.
> 
> They are located in the Texas towns of Edinburg, McAllen, Weslaco, and Brownsville.
> 
> Mexican people easily convert to Islam because they like the conservative and family oriented values inherent in the religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well there are Muslims from every country in the world, still the majority of them are Catholics. I don't think *radical Islam is converting Mexicans en masse *like the poster is saying though.
Click to expand...


I don't think the article said that at all. It said Mexican are adopting radical Muslim tactics. But there are Mexicans converting to Islam.


----------



## LilOlLady




----------



## Willworkforcrak

High_Gravity said:


> So you guys want to deport American citizens to Mexico?



Hell I wouldn't mind being deported to Mexico, and I ain't even Mexican but shit the weather is better down there then up in this ice box so why not?


----------



## gekaap

Truthmatters said:


> Yeah split up families and orphan children



You know, it really bugs me when people say stuff like this, and when they wax on about "but they've sacrificed so much to be here, they risked their lives, blah blah blah."  If you have a problem with families being broken up because illegal aliens get deported then BLAME THE IRRESPONSIBLE PARENTS FOR PUTTING THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES IN THAT SITUATION!

And the talk about "how hard" it is to immigrate legally is a bunch of HOGWASH.  Illegal immigrants undertake dangerous activities in their attempts to get into this country, they pay out more money to smugglers and in bribes to officials, and fake documents than it would have cost to immigrate legally, and after all of that they have to go to great lengths to avoid being discovered.  Legal immigration is easier than illegal immigration.  The underlying force behind illegal immigration is IRRESPONSIBILITY and an ENTITLEMENT COMPLEX that makes them think that they have a birth right to come in and take what they want.


----------



## gekaap

José;3235948 said:
			
		

> 1 - Mexico cannot prevent its citizens from leaving the country freely because this goes against all the fundamental principles of democratic states. This is what totalitarian countries like North Korea do.



First of all, it's not a matter of Mexico preventing its people from leaving that country.  Mexico actively lobbies the US to minimize immigration enforcement or to try to persuade us to not go forward with legislative efforts to increase the power of law over illegal immigration.  Mexico also encourages their people to illegally immigrate, and emboldens their citizens to believe they have a right to come to the US, like when their President says stupid shit like how Mexico supposedly spills over into the US because illegals are here, and that the Mexican government thus has an obligation to protect the illegals from US "oppression."  Of course, all the meanwhile, Mexico maintains strict laws about illegal immigration into its own country, such that any American illegally present could be legally shot dead on sight.

Second, Mexico's heavy flood of illegal aliens does create a responsibility to make attempts to curb the flow, if nothing else at least through means of their own border security making attempts to identify people who are caught attempting to cross the border illegally.  Mexico also OUGHT to be running much less interference in US plans and attempts to curb the problem.  Mexico has no place objecting to any US border barrier, it has no place telling the US to stop raiding work places that employ illegals, it has not place threatening to cut off economic ties whenever we attempt to step up our enforcement of immigration laws, etc.  But that's exactly what happens.



> 2 - Mexico cannot be blamed for being an underdeveloped, third world country. If America wants to blame Mexico for its poverty it should first turn that dirty poor country of Afghanistan into a developed nation since the country is currently under US control.



Yes it can.  The Mexicans are the ones who have built for themselves such a long history of social injustice and prejudice and racism within their own country as to give rise to the current miserable state of Mexican economics.  They are the ones that continue to elect cartel backed politicians.  They are the ones who choose to remain apathetic to the widespread corruption within the Mexican government.  And that's the number one reason why the US needs to curb the flow of illegal immigration.  Because the cultural pollution of Mexico's trash is a hindrance to American prosperity.



> AMERICA HAS ABSOLUTELY NO AUTHORITY TO DEMAND PROSPERITY FROM MEXICO IF SHE CANNOT BRING THAT SAME PROSPERITY TO ITS OWN "COLONIES".



The US doesn't have any colonies.  And the US does not leech off of other governments by encouraging our citizens to illegally immigrate to other countries and to work under the table while also collecting welfare benefits, so that the cash can then be sent back to our economy.  I don't demand that Mexico be prosperous.  But I do demand that Mexico stop prospering from American taxes, while eating up American jobs and driving down the wages for jobs that America workers hold.  And, I demand that Mexicans stop coming into my country and demanding that I should know how to speak their language when they have no interest in trying to learn our language.



> 3 - According to the international protocol that informally rules border relations between neighboring countries, in the absence of a broad comphehensive border agreement, *each country is resposible for its own side of the border*.



And yet you hypocritically just said that Mexico cannot be held accountable for what its citizens do on their side of the border when illegals try to come into the US.


----------



## mdn2000

Mexico, the failed nation, Vicente Fox, ex-presidente of Mexico stated he reduced poverty by 50%, funny, it was done by illegal immigration.i
Mexicans are extremely racist people, at least the ones who claim to be of pure Spanish blood, the elites, the poor indians and mixed people suffer. Great people, real sad.

To the point, jobs Americans will not do. I have picked strawberries, blueberries, string beans, apples, and worms. I have worked side by side, with a shovel, landscaping in Southern California with illegal aliens. Hard workers who are typically very good people, a few are pretty confused politically but for the most part they seem okay.

The damn media war that is constantly trying to stir up racism is taking its toll, I think its turning some of the younger Mexicans hateful or fearful of us.

Pretty big shame.


----------



## Flopper

mdn2000 said:


> Mexico, the failed nation, Vicente Fox, ex-presidente of Mexico stated he reduced poverty by 50%, funny, it was done by illegal immigration.i
> Mexicans are extremely racist people, at least the ones who claim to be of pure Spanish blood, the elites, the poor indians and mixed people suffer. Great people, real sad.
> 
> To the point, jobs Americans will not do. I have picked strawberries, blueberries, string beans, apples, and worms. I have worked side by side, with a shovel, landscaping in Southern California with illegal aliens. Hard workers who are typically very good people, a few are pretty confused politically but for the most part they seem okay.
> 
> The damn media war that is constantly trying to stir up racism is taking its toll, I think its turning some of the younger Mexicans hateful or fearful of us.
> 
> Pretty big shame.


*Our condo is undergoing some major renovation.  I would say at least 75 percent of the carpenters, foremen, and manual labor is Mexican.  These guys work damn hard. There're on scaffolding in freezing weather nailing up waterproofing, pushing wheelbarrows through the mud and ice when the wind chill is about 10 degrees.  I suspect that most of these people are illegal or at least would have a problem proving their legal.  I really don't believe this country would be better off without them. 

I drove home this morning, I passed about 25 Mexicans or at least they appeared to be Mexicans, standing in front of Home Depot ready to do just about any kind of work.  A few blocks down the street at the Interstate entrance, I counted four Anglos carrying signs begging for money or food with no mention of work.  This is not an isolated incident.  I see it daily.*


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *gekaap*
> First of all, it's not a matter of Mexico preventing its people from leaving that country. Mexico actively lobbies the US to minimize immigration enforcement or to try to persuade us to not go forward with legislative efforts to increase the power of law over illegal immigration. Mexico also encourages their people to illegally immigrate, and emboldens their citizens to believe they have a right to come to the US, like when their President says stupid shit like how Mexico supposedly spills over into the US because illegals are here, and that the Mexican government thus has an obligation to protect the illegals from US "oppression." Of course, all the meanwhile, Mexico maintains strict laws about illegal immigration into its own country, such that any American illegally present could be legally shot dead on sight.



*The president of Mexico said this... 

The president of Mexico said that...

Mexico lobbies the US...

Mexico files a lawsuit against Arizona...

Mexico files an official complaint...

Mexico this... Mexico that...

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH...*

*HA, HA, HA*... As if the USA didn't put any political and economic pressure on *JUST ABOUT EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD INCLUDING MEXICO* to force them to accomodate their interests.

Mexico's political/economic pressure is pathetically weak since it is a third world country and any *REAL ECONOMIC PRESSURE* beyond rethoric would be met with immediate US retaliation that would hurt Mexico much more than the US. The real culprit for the illegal problems are *IN AMERICA* (political class, corporations, part of the american population who does not give a damn, etc, etc...) *NOT IN MEXICO*. The country can't force the US to do shit.

But anyway, stop the cheap talk and show me hard evidence that Mexico finance illegals in any way...

Show me proof that Mexico pays their trip to the border... pays the coyote... 

Show me proof that Mexico promotes illegal immigration into the US (radio, TV ads).

You can't do any of these things, gekaap... the only thing you can show is *A MAP OF THE DESERT* Mexico prints due to the fact that hundreds of its citizens die in the desert every year. 

You have nothing to accuse Mexico but a *HARMLESS PIECE OF PAPER*.

You cannot present any hard evidence that Mexico finance illegals *BECAUSE YOU ARE A PHONY, GEKAAP!!!*

*BECAUSE YOU ARE A FRAUD!!!
*
*YOU CAN'T THINK PROPERLY CUZ YOUR MIND IS CLOUDED BY PATRIOTISM!!*

*THIS IS YOUR LAST CHANCE, LIAR!!!!*

*PRESENT HARD EVIDENCE IN FRONT OF THE WHOLE BOARD OF MONEY BEING GIVEN TO ILLEGALS BY MEXICAN OFFICIALS OR ADS PAID BY THE GOVERNMENT OF MEXICO ENCOURAGING ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION OR SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!*

*PIECES OF PAPER PRINTED TO SAVE LIVES AND THAT IN REALITY STRONGLY DISCOURAGE ILLEGAL CROSSING SIMPLY DO NOT COUNT!!!!*


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *gekaap*
> Second, Mexico's heavy flood of illegal aliens does *create a responsibility to make attempts to curb the flow*, if nothing else at least through means of their own border security making attempts to identify people who are caught attempting to cross the border illegally.



Says the total ignoramus who doesn't understand a thing about border relations between neighboring countries.

This is the international norm:

*In the absence of a border agreement each side is responsible for its own side of the border. *

Mexico is under no obligation to do anything to solve the problem of illegal mexican citizens in America.

And America is under no obligation to help solving the problem of illegal american weapons in Mexico.

But I'll give you another opportunity to back up your claims:

*SHOW THE BOARD A DETAILED, COMPREHENSIVE BORDER AGREEMENT SIGNED BY MEXICO AND THE US THAT STATES THAT MEXICO HAS ANY RESPONSABILITY TO HELP SOLVE THE US IMMIGRATION PROBLEM.

I'M TALKING ABOUT DETAILED AGREEMENTS NOT GENERAL, VAGUE PRESIDENTIAL STATEMENTS AND "DECLARATIONS OF INTENTIONS".*

You won't be able to find any *BECAUSE THIS AGREEMENT SIMPLY DO NOT EXIST*. So you pulled your "*Mexico's responsability to make attempts to stop the flow*" out of your ass. 

There's absolutely no international law or border agreement stating that Mexico has such an obligation.

*DISMISSED!!*


----------



## José

And one more thing.

Mexico not only is under no legal obligation to help the US solve its immigration problems *BUT IN MY OPINION THE COUNTRY SHOULD ABSTAIN FROM SUCH COLABORATION AS A MATTER OF NATIONAL PRIDE!!*

*IT'S HUMILIATING FOR MEXICO TO ACT AS THE BORDER PATROL OF THE SAME COUNTRY THAT STOLE HALF OF ITS TERRITORY BY BRUTE FORCE!!*


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *gekaap*
> Yes it can. The Mexicans are the ones who have built for themselves such a long history of social injustice and prejudice and racism within their own country as to give rise to the current miserable state of Mexican economics. They are the ones that continue to elect cartel backed politicians. They are the ones who choose to remain apathetic to the widespread corruption within the Mexican government. And that's the number one reason why the US needs to curb the flow of illegal immigration. Because the cultural pollution of Mexico's trash is a hindrance to American prosperity.



COME ON, GEKAAP!!!!

Since you blame Mexico for its underdevelopment explain to the whole Board why the USA

*FAILED MISERABLY IN CUBA.

FAILED MISERABLY IN PUERTO RICO.

IS FAILING MISERABLY IN AFGHANISTAN.

IS FAILING MISERABLY IN IRAQ.
*
Those who want to point the finger of blame at others must set a good example first, gekaap!!!!

*YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO DEMAND FROM MEXICO THE SAME ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT YOUR OWN NATION FAILED MISERABLY TO ACHIEVE IN SO MANY OF HER PAST AND PRESENT COLONIES!!

STOP HIDING BEHIND THE DESK AND ADMIT THAT YOUR NATION IS IN NO POSITION TO DEMAND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT FROM ANYBODY AFTER ALL THOSE ABYSMAL FAILURES!!*


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *gekaap*
> But I do demand that Mexico stop prospering from American taxes, while eating up American jobs and driving down the wages for jobs that America workers hold. And, I demand that Mexicans stop coming into my country and demanding that I should know how to speak their language when they have no interest in trying to learn our language.



Demand all these things from the US government!!!!

The US is responsible for arresting and deporting illegal immigrants *IN AMERICAN SOIL*.


----------



## José

*GEKAAP AFTER 
THE BEATDOWN*


----------



## FifthColumn

Flopper said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mexico, the failed nation, Vicente Fox, ex-presidente of Mexico stated he reduced poverty by 50%, funny, it was done by illegal immigration.i
> Mexicans are extremely racist people, at least the ones who claim to be of pure Spanish blood, the elites, the poor indians and mixed people suffer. Great people, real sad.
> 
> To the point, jobs Americans will not do. I have picked strawberries, blueberries, string beans, apples, and worms. I have worked side by side, with a shovel, landscaping in Southern California with illegal aliens. Hard workers who are typically very good people, a few are pretty confused politically but for the most part they seem okay.
> 
> The damn media war that is constantly trying to stir up racism is taking its toll, I think its turning some of the younger Mexicans hateful or fearful of us.
> 
> Pretty big shame.
> 
> 
> 
> *Our condo is undergoing some major renovation. I would say at least 75 percent of the carpenters, foremen, and manual labor is Mexican. These guys work damn hard. There're on scaffolding in freezing weather nailing up waterproofing, pushing wheelbarrows through the mud and ice when the wind chill is about 10 degrees. I suspect that most of these people are illegal or at least would have a problem proving their legal. I really don't believe this country would be better off without them. *
> 
> *I drove home this morning, I passed about 25 Mexicans or at least they appeared to be Mexicans, standing in front of Home Depot ready to do just about any kind of work. A few blocks down the street at the Interstate entrance, I counted four Anglos carrying signs begging for money or food with no mention of work. This is not an isolated incident. I see it daily.*
Click to expand...

 
Why not stop and ask them why the Mexican Army isn't helping out in Iraq? Oh, yeah! Fighting evil is a job even Mexicans won't do!

Try talking to a holocaust survivior about all the crap they went through while Mexicans were picking crops in the US nice and safe during WW2.

Try talking to a WW2 veteran and ask how many Mexicans were in his outfit. 

Try checking out a neighborhood that has been overrun with Mexicans. They attack senior citizens on their way to church and break into cars while Americans go to Mass. Yeah, those Mexicans sure are hard working, God fearing, .........


----------



## FifthColumn

José;3259671 said:
			
		

> *GEKAAP AFTER *
> 
> *THE BEATDOWN*​


 
*JOSE HAVING A DISCUSSION WITH L A's  FINEST!*






​


----------



## FifthColumn

Willworkforcrak said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you guys want to deport American citizens to Mexico?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hell I wouldn't mind being deported to Mexico, and I ain't even Mexican but shit the weather is better down there then up in this ice box so why not?
Click to expand...

 
I'll bet the more than half of the world's people who live on less than 2 dollars a day and don't have clean drinking water would find Mexico a paradise!


----------



## gekaap

Wow Jose.  All that talk, and you said nothing.  You think you know alot about me.  Bet you would have never guessed my name is Lopez, or that I am from in south Texas.  But unlike many others in south Texas with similar names, I am an American by birth, so were my parents, and their parents before them.  The families of my parents came to this country in the 1800s, and legally, which is more than most non-black Americans can say nowadays.  

I'm sure after your little hissy fit you're feeling very good about yourself.  But those of us who are interested in an actual intellectual discussion see that everything you've said is a pile of logical fallacy.  You've tried to twist my words into things I did not say (like your allegation that I said the Mexican government pays the expenses for illegal aliens to cross the borders).  You've ranted and raved and done plenty of name calling toward me, all the meanwhile completely ignoring the substance of my arguments.  And perhaps the worst part, is that you apparently seemed to expect a response from me in the middle of the night after a mere few hours, and somehow found a lack of response as some kind of indication that I was incapable of providing a meaningful response; you completely ignored the very natural inference that I was probably asleep would not have even logged on between the time of your first and second hissy fit.

Keep up with good work, Jose.  You're a real contribution to your cause.


----------



## Flopper

FifthColumn said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mexico, the failed nation, Vicente Fox, ex-presidente of Mexico stated he reduced poverty by 50%, funny, it was done by illegal immigration.i
> Mexicans are extremely racist people, at least the ones who claim to be of pure Spanish blood, the elites, the poor indians and mixed people suffer. Great people, real sad.
> 
> To the point, jobs Americans will not do. I have picked strawberries, blueberries, string beans, apples, and worms. I have worked side by side, with a shovel, landscaping in Southern California with illegal aliens. Hard workers who are typically very good people, a few are pretty confused politically but for the most part they seem okay.
> 
> The damn media war that is constantly trying to stir up racism is taking its toll, I think its turning some of the younger Mexicans hateful or fearful of us.
> 
> Pretty big shame.
> 
> 
> 
> *Our condo is undergoing some major renovation. I would say at least 75 percent of the carpenters, foremen, and manual labor is Mexican. These guys work damn hard. There're on scaffolding in freezing weather nailing up waterproofing, pushing wheelbarrows through the mud and ice when the wind chill is about 10 degrees. I suspect that most of these people are illegal or at least would have a problem proving their legal. I really don't believe this country would be better off without them. *
> 
> *I drove home this morning, I passed about 25 Mexicans or at least they appeared to be Mexicans, standing in front of Home Depot ready to do just about any kind of work. A few blocks down the street at the Interstate entrance, I counted four Anglos carrying signs begging for money or food with no mention of work. This is not an isolated incident. I see it daily.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why not stop and ask them why the Mexican Army isn't helping out in Iraq? Oh, yeah! Fighting evil is a job even Mexicans won't do!
> 
> Try talking to a holocaust survivior about all the crap they went through while Mexicans were picking crops in the US nice and safe during WW2.
> 
> Try talking to a WW2 veteran and ask how many Mexicans were in his outfit.
> 
> Try checking out a neighborhood that has been overrun with Mexicans. They attack senior citizens on their way to church and break into cars while Americans go to Mass. Yeah, those Mexicans sure are hard working, God fearing, .........
Click to expand...

I seriously doubt any of these Mexicans working their but off have the foggiest idea what Mexico's position was in relation to Iraq or WWII.  Further, I doubt they really give damn.  There're too busy doing the crappy, poorly paid jobs that Americans won't do.


----------



## gekaap

Flopper said:


> I seriously doubt any of these Mexicans working their but off have the foggiest idea what Mexico's position was in relation to Iraq or WWII.  Further, I doubt they really give damn.  There're too busy doing the crappy, poorly paid jobs that Americans won't do.



There's no such thing as a job that Americans won't do.  Think about it, who did those jobs before the US had a bunch of illegal Mexicans doing them?  That's right, good old Americans.  Americans will do any job in this country.  They just won't do it for pennies on the dollar in sub-par working conditions.


----------



## Flopper

gekaap said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> I seriously doubt any of these Mexicans working their but off have the foggiest idea what Mexico's position was in relation to Iraq or WWII.  Further, I doubt they really give damn.  There're too busy doing the crappy, poorly paid jobs that Americans won't do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's no such thing as a job that Americans won't do.  Think about it, who did those jobs before the US had a bunch of illegal Mexicans doing them?  That's right, good old Americans.  Americans will do any job in this country.  They just won't do it for pennies on the dollar in sub-par working conditions.
Click to expand...

Of course.  If you're willing to pay any amount for Americans to do this type work, then you'll be able fill these jobs.  However, the cost of the product or service will increase considerable.  Also these jobs will be  filled with people who aren't qualified to do strenuous mindless work.  The result is high turnover and a poorer quality product or service.


----------



## gekaap

Flopper said:


> Of course.  If you're willing to pay any amount for Americans to do this type work, then you'll be able fill these jobs.  However, the cost of the product or service will increase considerable.



Again, what happened when there weren't illegals to fill the jobs for pennies on the dollar?  Everything was fine.  The suggestion that there would be significant negative economic repercussions is untrue and unfounded.  Not only that, but raising any such concern as justification for illegal immigration, or relying on illegals for labor, equates to condoning illegally hazardous working conditions, unjustifiably inadequate pay, the suppression of wages for American workers, and Americans losing out on employment opportunities.  I can never find these things acceptable.



> Also these jobs will be  filled with people who aren't qualified to do strenuous mindless work.



This is a remarkably racist thing to say.  Mexicans are somehow specially qualified to do strenuous and mindless work?  Why, because they're bred to be nothing but psedeo-slaves?  Americans are, somehow, unqualified to do manual labor?



> The result is high turnover and a poorer quality product or service.



You think that illegal immigrants are a reliable source for low turnover labor?  And you think that they actually provide quality products?  Actually, what often happens is that illegal immigrants from Mexico will take any job, even if they don't really know how to do the job, and people will accept them in that job because they can pay them pennies on the dollar.  And the resulting work product is very shoddy.  But, the Mexicans will think the quality is great, because "It's even worse in Mexico."


----------



## Flopper

gekaap said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course.  If you're willing to pay any amount for Americans to do this type work, then you'll be able fill these jobs.  However, the cost of the product or service will increase considerable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, what happened when there weren't illegals to fill the jobs for pennies on the dollar?  Everything was fine.  The suggestion that there would be significant negative economic repercussions is untrue and unfounded.  Not only that, but raising any such concern as justification for illegal immigration, or relying on illegals for labor, equates to condoning illegally hazardous working conditions, unjustifiably inadequate pay, the suppression of wages for American workers, and Americans losing out on employment opportunities.  I can never find these things acceptable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also these jobs will be  filled with people who aren't qualified to do strenuous mindless work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is a remarkably racist thing to say.  Mexicans are somehow specially qualified to do strenuous and mindless work?  Why, because they're bred to be nothing but psedeo-slaves?  Americans are, somehow, unqualified to do manual labor?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The result is high turnover and a poorer quality product or service.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You think that illegal immigrants are a reliable source for low turnover labor?  And you think that they actually provide quality products?  Actually, what often happens is that illegal immigrants from Mexico will take any job, even if they don't really know how to do the job, and people will accept them in that job because they can pay them pennies on the dollar.  And the resulting work product is very shoddy.  But, the Mexicans will think the quality is great, because "It's even worse in Mexico."
Click to expand...

We have had illegal immigration since the 19th century.  In the early part of the 20th Mexicans came and went across our boarders as if they weren't there.  Prior to WWII we deported large number Mexicans.  During the war we welcomed them in because we needed the labor.  In the 50's, we started enforcing the law and deporting in numbers, then we opened the gates till the late 60's.  Then we started enforcing the law due to pressure from unions.  Then in 1986 Reagan granted unconditioned amnesty to 2.7 million Mexicans.  This was followed by two amnesties under Clinton, then more rigid enforcement under Bush.  Cheap illegal Mexican labor has been readily available in the Southwestern states for over 75 years.  

In American we do have a large workforce of manual laborers.  We have a large pool unemployed people that are mostly office workers, factory workers, and professions who are not physically qualified to work 8 to 10 hours a day in 100 temperatures picking fruit. Employers shy away from hiring overqualified workers because they quit as some as they find better jobs and just about any job is better than jobs the illegals do.  As long we have food stamps, unemployment insurance, and welfare we will not be able to fill these jobs with American workers unless we pay a considerably higher wage which will increase costs and prices.

My experience with immigrant manual labor is that it is no better or worst than American, it's just a lot cheaper.


----------



## FifthColumn

Flopper said:


> gekaap said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course. If you're willing to pay any amount for Americans to do this type work, then you'll be able fill these jobs. However, the cost of the product or service will increase considerable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, what happened when there weren't illegals to fill the jobs for pennies on the dollar? Everything was fine. The suggestion that there would be significant negative economic repercussions is untrue and unfounded. Not only that, but raising any such concern as justification for illegal immigration, or relying on illegals for labor, equates to condoning illegally hazardous working conditions, unjustifiably inadequate pay, the suppression of wages for American workers, and Americans losing out on employment opportunities. I can never find these things acceptable.
> 
> 
> 
> This is a remarkably racist thing to say. Mexicans are somehow specially qualified to do strenuous and mindless work? Why, because they're bred to be nothing but psedeo-slaves? Americans are, somehow, unqualified to do manual labor?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The result is high turnover and a poorer quality product or service.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You think that illegal immigrants are a reliable source for low turnover labor? And you think that they actually provide quality products? Actually, what often happens is that illegal immigrants from Mexico will take any job, even if they don't really know how to do the job, and people will accept them in that job because they can pay them pennies on the dollar. And the resulting work product is very shoddy. But, the Mexicans will think the quality is great, because "It's even worse in Mexico."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We have had illegal immigration since the 19th century. In the early part of the 20th Mexicans came and went across our boarders as if they weren't there. Prior to WWII we deported large number Mexicans. During the war we welcomed them in because we needed the labor. In the 50's, we started enforcing the law and deporting in numbers, then we opened the gates till the late 60's. Then we started enforcing the law due to pressure from unions. Then in 1986 Reagan granted unconditioned amnesty to 2.7 million Mexicans. This was followed by two amnesties under Clinton, then more rigid enforcement under Bush. Cheap illegal Mexican labor has been readily available in the Southwestern states for over 75 years.
> 
> In American we do have a large workforce of manual laborers. We have a large pool unemployed people that are mostly office workers, factory workers, and professions who are not physically qualified to work 8 to 10 hours a day in 100 temperatures picking fruit. Employers shy away from hiring overqualified workers because they quit as some as they find better jobs and just about any job is better than jobs the illegals do. As long we have food stamps, unemployment insurance, and welfare we will not be able to fill these jobs with American workers unless we pay a considerably higher wage which will increase costs and prices.
> 
> My experience with immigrant manual labor is that it is no better or worst than American, it's just a lot cheaper.
Click to expand...

 
Tell that to the American veterans of all the wars of the 20th century. You couldn't get those Mexicans to fight for the free world if you offered them American citizenship and their own farm.

And if these wonderful Mexicans are such great farmworkers, why are they flooding into the big cities of the US. No crops here!


----------



## LilOlLady

*The negative effects of rampant illegal immigration into the United States*
Article by Waldo Benavidez
At the risk of being called a traitor and immigrant basher I must speak out or at least attempt to express a point of view that I believe has not been even a small part of the debate about illegal immigration, and that issue is the impact illegal immigration has on the working poor of this country; and the political impotence it has injected into the Chicano community. Primarily, the debate has focused on the drain illegal immigration has on institutions such as school systems, health care, jobs and the depression of wages, law enforcement and the criminal justice system. All this is true and the taxpayer funded institutions that are reeling from this huge migration into the United States are the ones that are primarily suppose to be servicing the low income people of this country. In turn, causing low income families to compete for increasingly limited funds, resources and basic survival necessities. 

The proponents of open borders or at least unlimited immigration argue that these people are not harming anyoneall they want is work, they do not bother anyone and they only take jobs not one else wants, this naive and simplistic rational for illegal immigration fails to acknowledge the far reaching and critical impact on the low income people. The competition for low income housing is a primary example of how those that advocate for immigrants ignore the working families that cannot compete for the high rents landlords are demanding for their rental units. Whereas a family of four with one bread winner has a difficult time meeting the inflated rents being asked for housing, often substandard, plus the high cost of energy bills plus feed and cloth the family on seven, eight or nine dollars per hour. Immigrants can pay whatever is asked by landlords because they pack four and five, often times more working individuals into the unit and by pooling their resources easily manage rent. The result is that rents are inflated because a group of working adults can always outbid one working individual with a family, so the bottom line becomes inflated rents, increasing the cost of living and depressed wages, putting the working class citizen at a distinct disadvantage.

The negative effects of rampant illegal immigration into the United States - article by Waldo Benavidez - Defend Colorado Now - a Colorado immigration reform organization supporting initiatives and legislation to stop illegal immigration and stop ill


----------



## José

This is the only thing gekaap got right.



> Originally posted by *gekaap*
> Mexico actively lobbies the US.


This is absolutely true. Just like the USA lobbies the whole world and sometimes even use economic blackmail to advance its geo-political interests.

Whether you like it or not all countries have this "I'm for my citizens right or wrong".

In my ideal world, Mexico, America, China, Russia, etc, etc, would not say a word to try and free their citizens arrested abroad conducting criminal activities (provided the punishment was not brutal, over the top).

But unfortunately this is not how the REAL WORLD works.

*Mexico tries to help illegal Mexicans in the US.*

*America sometimes make political and economic threats to free american criminals arrested abroad and to advance other goals.
*
etc, etc, etc...


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *gekaap*
> Wow Jose. All that talk, and you said nothing. You think you know alot about me. Bet you would have never guessed my name is Lopez, or that I am from in south Texas. But unlike many others in south Texas with similar names, I am an American by birth, so were my parents, and their parents before them. The families of my parents came to this country in the 1800s, and legally, which is more than most non-black Americans can say nowadays.
> 
> I'm sure after your little hissy fit you're feeling very good about yourself. But those of us who are interested in an actual intellectual discussion see that everything you've said is a pile of logical fallacy. You've tried to twist my words into things I did not say (like your allegation that I said the Mexican government pays the expenses for illegal aliens to cross the borders). You've ranted and raved and done plenty of name calling toward me, all the meanwhile completely ignoring the substance of my arguments. And perhaps the
> 
> worst part, is that you apparently seemed to expect a response from me in the middle of the night after a mere few hours, and somehow found a lack of response as some kind of indication that I was incapable of providing a meaningful response; you completely ignored the very natural inference that I was probably asleep would not have even logged on between the time of your first and second hissy fit.
> 
> Keep up with good work, Jose. You're a real contribution to your cause.



Gekaap, I will use your own words so you can't accuse me of putting words in your mouth.

You say "*Mexico also encourages their people to illegally immigrate*" but you were unable to find any official ad paid by the Mexican government or money being given to illegals to prove your accusations. Just hearsay about a statement supposedly made by a Mexican president. Ironically, the leaflet distributed by the Mexican governemnt strongly discourages Mexicans to cross the desert.

Then you say "*Mexico's heavy flood of illegal aliens does create a responsibility to make attempts to curb the flow*" but once again you are unable to present any international law or border agreement stating that Mexico has any duty to help America stem the flow of illegal Mexicans into America 

Aside: Interestingly enough, I don't see you complaining about America's unwillingness to stem the flow of illegal weapons into Mexico. *HINT*: America is under no obligation to spend precious resources actively searching and arresting weapon smugglers *LEAVING HER TERRITORY*. Again, there's no international law or border treaty stating that the US has such an obligation.

How do Americans feel when idiots from all over the world blame the US security service for the mega terrorist attack of 2001, gekaap?

They feel outraged, disgusted with those baseless accusations and justifiably so. And you are doing the exact same thing with Mexico, gekaap.

When you come into a Message Board and make a series of baseless, unfounded accusations against Mexico that you have to way to prove you shouldn't be surprised when people call you out on your bullshit.


----------



## Terral

LilOlLady said:


> *Jobs american will not do.*
> 
> "*Illegal immigrants" - how do other countries deal with it?*



Let us talk about the jobs that American so-called 'law enforcement' will not do:

1. They sit eating donuts while 20 million goddamned illegal aliens run around loose everywhere stealing identities and JOBS from real U.S. Citizens.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc0UGhPXmD0"]Warning To All So-Called Law Enforcement[/ame]

2. American senators and congressmen sit behind desks waiting for 40,000+ Washington Lobbyists to enter their offices with 5 billion dollars in bribes to keep them looking the other way, while 25 U.S. Citizens are killed by Illegal Aliens EVERY DAY (12 by murder).

3. The same corrupt politicians allow Barry Soetoro, aka Barrack Obama, to squat in the White House as the Illegal Alien commander-in-chief, even though there is no evidence of his fake birth certificate in either of the two Hawaii hospitals he cites:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvrb7YqdvxE"]Abercrombie Admits There Are No Obama Birth Records In Hawaii[/ame]

4. Jobs that Americans refuse to do includes the fat cat police allowing Mexican Drug Gangs to take over more that 200 U.S. Cities.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJHuIQ11j4s"]Their Purpose Is To Come To The USA And Take Over[/ame]

5. The so-called Police continue looking the other way, while America is burning and falling victim to foreign nationals; which includes allowing unscrupulous Americans pick around U.S. workers in favor of their 20-million man illegal alien labor pool. We have many Illegals using *the same Social Security Numbers *(story), but nobody from Immigration (what a joke) or the Social Security Offices (another joke) are doing one thing about it. 

Everyone from the Obama Administration to every branch of the Federal Government to the Governors and State Police to the county sheriff and the dog catcher is looking the other way, while millions and millions and millions of illegal aliens come to our towns and do whatever they please. I have no pity whatsoever for the so-called law enforcement people who sit back and watch America burn with refugees from all corners of this earth, because they allow lawlessness to run rampant and do nothing about it. Government Corruption is everywhere and the police are involved in that corruption up to their eyeballs as guardians and protectors of the New World Order Elites destroying this once-great nation on purpose and right before our eyes. 

The police had better start enforcing the Rule of Law and protecting the jobs and livelihoods and lives of U.S. Citizens, or lawlessness will raise his ugly head and consume us all. 

GL,

Terral


----------



## gekaap

I'm glad to hear someone else mention these things.  I agree, this facet of the burden that illegals have on our country is regularly under appreciated, though there are some who easily recognize these facts.  Mostly, people who live in areas with heavily Mexican populations.  Another aspect that ties in to what you were saying, but that you didn't really mention, is that it's not uncommon for illegals to double dip, by working and managing to earn welfare benefits.  This happens not just among groups of adults, but especially among immigrant families.  Immigrants who have anchor baby children are able to gain benefits for their citizen children, even though they wouldn't qualify for the aid if their income was traceable or on the books.  Adults, regardless of having children or not, can obtain fake papers with which they can then turn around and get welfare benefits while again still working under the table.  This double dipping allows illegals who pull it off to up the ante in terms of the competition they create for impoverished Americans.


----------



## gekaap

José;3263667 said:
			
		

> This is absolutely true. Just like the USA lobbies the whole world and sometimes even use economic blackmail to advance its geo-political interests.



The US does not lobby other countries to give our people a pass to illegally immigrate en masse and drain their economies.  I'll be the first one to agree that the US gets too involved too often in other countries' affairs, but nobody can accuse us of pressuring other countries to not keep themselves secured so that we can invade one wetback at a time.



> Whether you like it or not all countries have this "I'm for my citizens right or wrong".



That's not true, and clearly you misunderstood the point anyway.  Mexico's politicians tell their people that they have an INHERENT RIGHT AND ENTITLEMENT to come into the US and use our resources.  They base this right on the fact that certain areas used to be part of Mexico 100+ years ago, and that there are "loyal" Mexican citizens today in those areas.  That, of course, is a very illogical conclusion, because those Mexicans are only there because they illegally immigrated in the first place.  Mexico WANTS people to illegally immigrate to the US.  The blond haired/blue eyed Mexicans are all too happy get rid of the dark skinned Mexicans.  The wealthy are all to happy to get rid of the poor.  The politicians are all too happy to rely on American funds being funneled into Mexico to keep their economy afloat.  The real power behind the politicians, the drug cartels, are all too happy to have easy and accessible avenues for their criminal activity.  Which, by the way, is not just drug running and human smuggling, but also violent crimes.  Mexican organized crime has been successful at maintaining paid assassins north of the border.



> In my ideal world, Mexico, America, China, Russia, etc, etc, would not say a word to try and free their citizens arrested abroad conducting criminal activities (provided the punishment was not brutal, over the top).



In my ideal world......Eh, I'll take a coke, please.



> *Mexico tries to help illegal Mexicans in the US.*



No, Mexico tries to lobby the US to make OUR COUNTRY help their people, because they aren't willing to do it.



> *America sometimes make political and economic threats to free american criminals arrested abroad and to advance other goals.*



You honestly can't see the difference between the US saying "Give them back to us" and the Mexican government saying "Keep them, we don't want them"?


----------



## Terral

Hi Lady:



LilOlLady said:


> *The negative effects of rampant illegal immigration into the United States*
> 
> Article by Waldo Benavidez
> 
> At the risk of being called a traitor and immigrant basher I must speak out or at least attempt to express a point of view that I believe has not been even a small part of the debate about illegal immigration, and that issue is the impact illegal immigration has on the working poor of this country ...



The working poor? What in the hell is Waldo talking about??? I have worked with hundreds of illegal aliens right here in Florida, which has made me a bit of an expert on the subject of negative effects associated with the Illegal Alien Invasion of these United States. Here is how the scheme works:

One white guy hires twenty to fifty Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals to work under a few crew chiefs for a construction company that can be in the masonry, carpentry, roofing, tile setting trades, or any company where the work is done by human hands. The white guy can lower his prices to below cost, because only a few of his workers are on the books and everyone else gets cash at much reduced wages than the American workers of his competitors. 

This single company of illegal aliens begins to systematically run the legitimate companies out of business, by keeping the prices so low that nobody else can get a job. That means more and more Americans on unemployment and food stamps and more and more illegal aliens taken even more jobs from local citizens. We are not talking about worker displacement of 'poor people' (give me a break), but skilled masons making 20 to 25 dollars per hour are forced to take 14 dollars per hour (illegal wage) or have no job at all. That means an entire echelon of skilled masons, carpenters, roofers, dry-wallers, tile setters, etc. are displaced from the shrinking pool of 'consumers' and 'taxpayers' that reduces the demand for goods and services, until those jobs come under threat and more service sector people join the ranks of the unemployed. 

My brother is the chief estimator for what was once a 350-man masonry company, but he cannot lower his prices low enough to even get a job; because the companies using illegal aliens have cut prices to 50 percent below cost. That means my brother is on unemployment and he is anything but 'poor,' but he cannot compete in an environment where nobody is enforcing our employment laws and lawlessness is allowing the competition to hire as many illegal aliens as they wish and nobody is doing one thing about it. 

The bottom rungs of the socioeconomic pyramid have already imploded from too much job outsourcing, NAFTA offshoring of the manufacturing base, too many guest worker programs (23) and far too many goddamned illegal aliens and that is the consumer base and tax base that is losing houses and going into bankruptcy and foreclosure; which lowers the value of your house and every house in the neighborhood. You cannot expect banks to lend money to mortgagees, when nobody in Govt is protecting those jobs. America has already gone to the dogs and we are just waiting for the maggots to finish feasting on the dead carcass ...  

BTW, every illegal alien I have worked with has a brother, uncle and cousin coming to join them. They waive their ill-gotten driver's licenses around and laugh at the local government idiots for allowing foreigners to just come in and take over the place. Actually, they are laughing at all of you for allowing the Illegal Alien Invasion to continue ... 

GL,

Terral


----------



## gekaap

José;3263683 said:
			
		

> You say "*Mexico also encourages their people to illegally immigrate*" but you were unable to find any official ad paid by the Mexican government or money being given to illegals to prove your accusations.



Again, you're demanding things that are non-sequitors.  It does not follow that the Mexican government has to run TV ads that say "Go to America."  It's enough that the Mexican government tells its people that Texas belongs to Mexico, that it refuses to make any attempt to deter illegal immigration, that Mexican border agents regularly accept bribes from people trying to illegally cross the border, that Mexico interferes with US plans and attempts to increase border security and immigration enforcement.

But, since you asked:

Mexican State Issues 'How To' on Border Jumping - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum - FOXNews.com

Nation & World | Mexico offers tips for crossing border in comic book | Seattle Times Newspaper

BBC NEWS | Americas | Mexican migrants to get US maps



> Just hearsay about a statement supposedly made by a Mexican president. Ironically, the leaflet distributed by the Mexican governemnt strongly discourages Mexicans to cross the desert.



Read if for yourself.



> Then you say "*Mexico's heavy flood of illegal aliens does create a responsibility to make attempts to curb the flow*" but once again you are unable to present any international law or border agreement stating that Mexico has any duty to help America stem the flow of illegal Mexicans into America



Hello.....Hello....Anyone home?  That's the point, Mexico refuses to take any responsibility for its own citizens.  It just wants to dump the trash on our doorsteps.  Stop begging the question.



> Aside: Interestingly enough, I don't see you complaining about America's unwillingness to stem the flow of illegal weapons into Mexico.



HA!  Mexico's immigration policy is so much more strict that anything it will tolerate the US having.  In any event, Mexico does not seem have any significant problem with Americans illegally immigrating into Mexico.  Their illegal immigration issues come from Central American countries and Cuba, mostly being people trying to use Mexico as an easy access point to get into the US.  Oh, and the Chinese.  Chinese trying to illegally enter the US frequently will first go to Mexico because that's the easiest way to get into the US.



> *HINT*: America is under no obligation to spend precious resources actively searching and arresting weapon smugglers *LEAVING HER TERRITORY*.



Actually, we have an obligation to arrest such people, because it is a violation of our laws.



> How do Americans feel when idiots from all over the world blame the US security service for the mega terrorist attack of 2001, gekaap?



What are you even saying?  How do Americans feel when people blame, who for the 9-11 attacks?  The FBI?  CIA?  President Bush?  Well, Americans tend to have different perspectives on just exactly who is to blame, but overall Americans were outraged at the failure of our government institutions and we demanded a higher level of work product out of them.  But I fail to see what that has to do with Mexican's illegally immigrating to the US.



> They feel outraged, disgusted with those baseless accusations and justifiably so. And you are doing the exact same thing with Mexico, gekaap.



I'm not making baseless accusations.  Are you trying to say that there is not a huge flow of illegals from Mexico to the US?  Are you trying to say that Mexico does not promote illegal immigration?  See my links above.  Better yet, get out from under the rock under which you've spent your entire life.  Then, go out and get educated on the subject matter before you say anything else, because your emotional and unfounded positions are boring.  You support illegal immigration into the US because you are apparently Hispanic, and that apparently is enough for you to support people illegally invading the US.  Horribly racist, I have to say.



> When you come into a Message Board and make a series of baseless, unfounded accusations against Mexico that you have to way to prove you shouldn't be surprised when people call you out on your bullshit.



  Baseless?  You just don't know what you're talking about, do you?  You don't know anything about the subject, all you know is that you want a certain outcome and you want to scream and shout to try make everyone believe that the outcome is possible, or that it's even acceptable.


----------



## Tank




----------



## LilOlLady

Twenty years ago my brother had a lucrative painting business, and hired several men to work for him. He painted newly built complexes and homes. Illegal aliens constantly under bid him on jobs and he could not survive on the bids they made. Finally he lost his business putting several men out of work. Lost his rentals and his home and his wife and finally took his life. That is one of the effect of illegal immigration has on Americans. Many times you have read of people who lost their jobs and have taken their lives and the lives of their family. Maybe not directly but indirectly the cause. When there were 7 million illegal aliens in the workforce, some Americans are not working. 7 million are not working in the fields either. I am a tireless worker against illegal immigration and it&#8217;s not racist to want Americans first.
Also illegal aliens do commit fraud on the welfare system.


----------



## LilOlLady

AUTOMATIC BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP IS THE PROBLEM

ABC for children of illegal aliens is the reason we cannot control illegal immigration and enforce our immigration laws. Amending  the 14th Amendment to exclude children born to illegal aliens is the first step to controlling illegal immigration.

The 14th Amendment has broken our immigration system by giving citizenship to a child of a non-citizen and makes it virtually impossible to deport the parents and it is used by the parent not to be deported because they claim it separates families. Enforcing our immigration laws separate families? And GOD forbid we cannot separate these poor children from their parents who committee a crime by entering the country illegally. But we do it all the time to children of American citizens when we send parents to prison or to war. They cannot take their children to prison with them, but illegal aliens can when they are deported. Nothing stops them from taking their American born child with them when they are deported.

So what happens is a pregnant woman crosses the border illegally to have her baby in this country or have a baby after entering knowing that baby instantly become an anchor and a free meal ticket, free delivery, welfare, food stamps, medical care and public housing. In other words wards of the state and the American tax payers. Benefits they receive in behalf of their anchor babies can sustain them if they dont work. With 20 million in the country and only 7 million in the workforce, what is the other 13 million doing?

Now these anchor babies, sometimes called jackpot babies, are having babies or their own and its a expensive circle Obama and the democrats want to make permanent via the Dream Act and Comprehensive Immigration Reform which is amnesty with a fine. If you can call $5,000 a fine. They spend that much on a set of wheels. $5,000 fine is a slap in the face of those who earn citizenship the legal way and proud of it and cheapen U.S. citizenship. But for those who have an investment in illegal immigration, cheap labor and future votes, etc is selling out America for their own selfish gains. God help us this country already looks like Mexico and soon have all the problem that Mexico has and then they will be scratching their head wonder how it happened and its too late to do anything about. 

America is in a state of emergency due to illegal immigration. 


In spite of more border security, more raids and deportation, it is not nearly enough. There is absolute on pluses to illegal immigration. We are importing those who have absolute nothing to contribute to our economy. Illegal immigration bring in the poorest of nations and not doctor, nurses, engineers and other professionals. 

All anchor babies and illegal children do not stay in school and become contributor to society. All do not want to enter the military. Some join the gangs like MS13, deal in drug and other criminal acts and our prisons are full of illegal aliens and their children. All illegal aliens are not hard working, law abiding people who only want to make a good life for their families. With illegal immigration we take the good, bad and the ugly. We cannot separate them when we dont know who is here. How do we deport a criminal illegal alien when we dont know they are criminals until they are caught committing a crime?

There is absolute no positives of illegal immigration.  No positive of amnesty. We must remember this when we go to the polls. If is a priority to the survival of this country. Our childrens future depend on controlling immigration.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Speaking of inbreeding.*

*Is there really a race of blue people?July 24, 1998 *Dear Cecil: 

My husband swears that when he took anthropology they talked about a race of blue people. How did I miss this? Don't you dare say it was the Smurfs.

 Lonijo, via AOL



None of Martin and Mary Fugate's descendants would have been blue had they not intermarried with a nearby clan, the Smiths. The Smiths were descendants of Richard Smith and Alicia Combs, one of whom apparently was also a met-H carrier. According to family historian Mary Fugate, the first known blue Fugate was born in 1832. Because of inbreeding among the isolated hill folk--the *Fugate family tree *is *a tangled mess of cousins marrying cousins*--blue people started popping up frequently thereafter. A half dozen or so were on the scene by the 1890s, and one case was reported as recently as 1975. They were quite a sight. One woman is said to have had lips the color of a bruise. 

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/rea ... lue-people

The Fugate Family


----------



## Truthmatters

What is it about Islam that some people find so very powerful?

It seems many in this country think people will choose it over their own religion.

Fearing a religions growth  means you think it has more to offer people than your own beliefs.


----------



## LilOlLady

Harry Reid tried to end birthright citizenship for illegals in 1993
August 13, 2010 by Ed Morrissey

According to Harry Reid&#8217;s own standards, he should lose his entire Hispanic vote over this, right?  While Democrats paint Republicans who challenge birthright citizenship as extremists, it turns out that Reid was seventeen years ahead of the curve.  In 1993, just after Democrats won the White House, Reid filed a bill that would have done exactly what some Republicans now demand &#8212; end birthright citizenship for children of illegal immigrants.  Kerry Picket digs up the record for the Washington Times:
Title X of the Reid introduced bill shows the Nevada Democrat took Senator Lindsey Graham&#8217;s, South Carolina Republican, idea on the interpretation of the 14th Amendment and documented it into legislation:

*&#8220;TITLE X&#8212;CITIZENSHIP 4 SEC. 1001. BASIS OF CITIZENSHIP CLARIFIED.*  In the exercise of its powers under section of the Fourteenth Article of Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, the Congress has determined and hereby declares that any person born after the date of enactment of this title to a mother who is neither a citizen of the United States nor admitted to the United States as a lawful permanent resident, and which person is a national or citizen of another country of which either of his or her natural parents is a national or citizen, or is entitled upon application to become a national or citizen of such country, shall be considered as born subject to the jurisdiction of that foreign country and not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States within the meaning of section 1 of such Article and shall therefore not be a citizen of the United States or of any State solely by reason of physical presence within the United States at the moment of birth.&#8221;

Even the summary of the *bill contains language that would offend many of Mr. Reid&#8217;s supporters* who are pushing amnesty for illegal immigrants in the United States:

&#8220;A bill to *curb criminal activity *by aliens, to *defend against acts of international terrorism*, to *protect American workers *from *unfair labor competition,* and to *relieve pressure on public services *by *strengthening border security *and *stabilizing immigration *into the United States.&#8221;

Harry Reid tried to end birthright citizenship for illegals in 1993  Hot Air


----------



## Angelhair

_Okay, correct me if I'm wrong - but did Harry Reid have a change of heart when, as they say, he married a mexican woman????  One does have to wonder why the radical change in his thinking._


----------



## Meister

That was when democrats weren't as liberal as they are today.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Arizona proposal would alter birthright citizenship* 

 Share this on:Mixx Facebook Twitter Digg delicious reddit MySpace StumbleUpon LinkedIn January 28, 2011|By Michael Martinez, CNN
The Arizona state legislator who co-sponsored the latest immigration crackdown proposal -- to end citizenship for U.S.-born kids of illegal immigrants -- told CNN Friday that *he hopes the legislation will provoke a lawsuit* so that the U.S. Supreme Court "can *end the controversy *over the true meaning of the 14th Amendment's citizenship clause."

The legislation was introduced Thursday in the Arizona Legislature and is part of an effort planned in about a *dozen states to end automatic citizenship *for children born in the United States to illegal immigrants, said Arizona state Rep. John Kavanagh, a Republican who's one of two primary sponsors of the bill.

Arizona proposal would alter birthright citizenship - CNN


----------



## Grace

I think some folks in higher power are running the ball right off the field instead of keeping it in play.
There has to be some kind of change, yes. People coming here from other countries (it isn't just Mexico) so their kids can be born here to bypass applying for citizenship needs to be addressed.
Meanwhile, back at the proverbial ranch, those already born here should be able to keep their status as citizens, but with some sort of grandfather clause in effect to protect those born 5 years ago, or even 10 years ago.
With that said.... parents of children born here need to apply for citizenship the legal way so they can be citizens like their children that were born here. If they do not comply or take those steps...well...that's another venue that needs to be discussed by TPTB.

And as usual...it is just my opinion. Your own mileage may vary.


----------



## gekaap

This isn't the first time this bill has come up.  They tried to do this a couple years ago, if I remember correctly.  But it would be pointless, the Supreme Court has already long ago established that the 14th amendment declares anyone born in the US a citizen, regardless of the citizenship of the parents.


----------



## Grace

Yes, but it was also written in a different time by people who had no clue what the future held.


Society changes with time, that is why it (the constitution) has so many amendments attached to it.
The fact is, the resources that were so plentiful when our country was founded are now much more limited. Plus, not counting the hundreds of thousands living here as undocumented bodes not well for our own security much less our own resources.


----------



## gekaap

I don't see why marrying such and such a person should make you change your position.  I'm Hispanic, and my position is that the US should do away with the anchor baby loophole, and restrict natural born citizenship to the children of two legal residents, or at least one citizen.

But again, this bill would be unconstitutional.  Not only would it violate the well established fact that being born in the US makes a person a citizen regardless of the citizenship of the parents, but it would also violate constitutional separation of powers.  The Supreme Court has already established opinions on this matter, and this bill clearly would have been an attempt to circumnavigate the court's constitutional role and powers.

The only way to end the anchor baby loop hole is to amend the constitution.


----------



## LilOlLady

José;3248298 said:
			
		

> Speeddemon writes me an angry message asking me if I don't understand that a prosperous Mexico would be good for both countries. It never ceases to amaze me just how badly you can be misunderstood on the Net no matter how clearly you try to get your message across. Of course a wealthy Mexico would be a gift to both Mexico and America, demon. The* only problem is how to get there*.
> 
> I'm sick and tired of USMB members regurgitating the same line over and over:
> 
> Mexico should do
> 
> *a)
> 
> b)
> 
> c)*
> 
> to become a rich country (and help solve the US problem with illegals).
> 
> Well, America ruled Puerto Rico and Cuba as overseas colonies for 50 years. The two countries had *MUCH LESS AUTONOMY THAN ANY US STATE*.
> 
> America had half a century to do
> 
> *a)
> 
> b)
> 
> c)*
> 
> to turn Puerto Rico and cuba into first world nations and failed miserably.
> 
> Today more Puerto Ricans live in America than in Puerto Rico itself and the country is not in worse shape only because it is still a US colony in many ways.
> 
> The members of this Board talk about economic growth as if it were as simple as a cake recipe!!!! If it is that simple why America failed in PR, Cuba and now in Iraq and Afghanistan?
> 
> So stop demanding from Mexico the very same thing America failed to deliver in so many parts of the world!!



*You get there the same way Egypt is getting there. Fight the corruption. You don't tuck your tail and run. If you love your country you fight and you die for it. Mexico has plenty wealth. The wealthest man in the world lives in Mexico and is a Mexican.*

*Sunday, July 08, 2007
Vast Wealth in Mexico - But Not For Sharing*


Carlos Slim, a Mexican, is now the world's richest man, beating out even Warren Buffett and Bill Gates. You probably have read this in the papers. What you probably haven't heard is just how *obscenely wealthy *this man is in real terms - he is* worth $67.8 billion in a nation where half the population lives on less than $5 a day*. Bill Gates is incredibly wealthy too, but he resides in the US, where the average income is more than three times Mexico's. Moreover, a huge amount of Gates' wealth comes from sales of his products worldwide, while almost all of Carlos Slim's wealth was generated in Latin America only. In other words, it's very debatable as to how much wealth he's actually bringing into Mexico, as opposed to simply taking it out.

Here's another way to look at it: *Slim effectively owns 8% of Mexico's wealth*. For Bill Gates to do that in the USA, his wealth would have to increase to $13 trillion, or 17 times its current total. 

You might think, well OK, he is one really rich guy. But is this really a problem? The answer is yes.

The Shield of Achilles: Vast Wealth in Mexico - But Not For Sharing [Updated]


----------



## SAJason

Good, the 14th amendment was written for newly freed slaves and not anybody who owes allegiance to another country. Hopefully this works.


----------



## LilOlLady

*About Natural Resources Found in Mexico*
By Kenneth Black,.

From energy to precious metals, Mexico has it all. Mexico's natural resources include oil, gold, copper, silver and natural gas. Many know the beauty of Mexico's natural landscape, and it has been utilized to a great advantage along the coasts, where visitors flock by the millions each year. However, Mexico also has substantial oil reserves, managed by a state-run oil company. For more information, see Resources below. 

&#8226;Mexico is the sixth largest producer of oil in the world. However, at this point, there is some speculation that it may have reached its peak production capabilities. If that is true, it will need to start searching for other alternatives in energy, much like the United States is already considering. However, for the time being, its oil production makes it somewhat self-sustainable in this area. This allows the country to not take on further national debt for energy needs. 
About Natural Resources Found in Mexico | eHow.com 

*Mexico is more than capable of taking care of it's own, but why should they when they have us to do it for them.*


----------



## gekaap

It doesn't matter.  The constitution does not change with the whims of popular sentiment.  The law remains the law until it is changed.  The constitution can be amended if the people see fit, but its application cannot be altered based on the fact that times have changed.  We still use the electoral college, even though modern times make it feasible to utilize a direct election of President.  We still have a Senate even though times have changed and the one-state/one-vote theory has long been abandoned.  Just because people may want to do things differently does not change the constitutionality of a given matter.

A person born in the US is a citizen, regardless of the lineage or the citizenship of the parents.  That has been true since the ratification of the 14th amendment.  When the issue has been brought before the SCOTUS, the court found that inasmuch as the constitution does not define the meaning of a "natural born citizen" the stipulations of the Common Law of England, having been applicable in the colonies before the constitution, and continuing to so be afterward, remained authoritative.  The CLE was explicit about the fact that any child born in England was a citizen of the Crown regardless of where the parents came from, or their citizenship status.


----------



## Grace

SAJason said:


> Good, the 14th amendment was written for newly freed slaves and not anybody who owes allegiance to another country. Hopefully this works.



Don't know if it will work, but you are correct on the intent of the 14th amendment. As long as it is done in a reasonable manner (like, as if), I think it should be done. Soon.


----------



## Tank

Once Mexicans are the majority, they'll change the 14 amendment


----------



## gekaap

The constitution considers anyone born in the US owes allegiance to the US.  It also believes that a person can owe allegiance to another country and the US simultaneously.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Truthmatters said:


> What is it about Islam that some people find so very powerful?
> 
> It seems many in this country think people will choose it over their own religion.
> 
> Fearing a religions growth  means you think it has more to offer people than your own beliefs.



Good questions 
Islam has a lot to offer the disenfranchised and disillusioned,  it is simple and as logical as a faith can be and if offers the chance for  self expression, earthly reward and carnal delights.


----------



## Sunni Man

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Islam has a lot to offer the disenfranchised and disillusioned......


This woman is a convert to Islam that I personally know from the mosque in Texas.

Dr. O'leary has a  PhD and teaches neuro science at a university in Austin.  

So much for your non sense about Islam attracting the disenfranchised and disillusioned.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Lots of tards convert to Islam.


----------



## Sunni Man

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Lots of tards convert to Islam.


If that was true, you would have converted years ago.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Yeah, that aught to tell you something, but in your condition ,it wont.


----------



## JamesInFlorida

I'm all for ending anchor babies, but what would you put in it's place? How do you determine who becomes a citizen and who doesn't? 

I personally would like to see that the only way you're automatically a citizen if you're born here is if one of your parents is already a citizen at the time you're born (even if one is an illegal). Those born to legal immigrants shouldn't automatically become citizens in my opinion-but should have a pathway to citizenship.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Forget federal government, we'll build fence ourselves!
Plan makes illegal immigrants pay for states to secure U.S. border*January 30, 2011
By Drew Zahn
© 2011 WorldNetDaily 

Mississippi State Sen. Joey Fillingane 

A Mississippi legislator has caught on to an idea that if the federal government won't complete a border fence separating the United States from Mexico, the states will  and he's planning on* taxing illegal immigrants to fund it*. 

Republican State Sen. Joey Fillingane has filed S.B. 2255, which would *charge a fee on all money transfers wired out of the United States*, then count the amount as a credit on Mississippi citizens' tax returns. The result: Only illegal immigrants sending money abroad would ultimately pay the fees, since they cannot file tax returns to receive a refund. 



Read more: Forget federal government, we'll build fence ourselves! Forget federal government, we'll build fence ourselves!


----------



## Mr Natural

Of all places, Mississippi should be the least concerned about illegal immigration.


----------



## goldcatt

So I guess Mississippi is going to send volunteers to trespass on private property along the Mexican border and build the fences that the Feds can't because of all the takings issues? 

People own that land, ya know. The States aren't going to get any further than the Feds, not without trampling property, grazing and water rights.


----------



## LilOlLady

gekaap said:


> This isn't the first time this bill has come up.  They tried to do this a couple years ago, if I remember correctly.  But it would be pointless, the Supreme Court has already long ago established that the 14th amendment declares *anyone *born in the US a citizen, regardless of the citizenship of the parents.



*Supreme Court decisions*
The correct interpretation of the 14th Amendment is that *an illegal alien mother is subject to the jurisdiction of her native country, as is her baby*. 

Over a century ago, the *Supreme Court appropriately confirmed this restricted interpretation of citizenship *in the so-called *"Slaughter-House cases*" [83 US 36 (1873) and 112 US 94 (1884)]13. In the *1884 Elk v.Wilkins *case12, the phrase "*subject to its jurisdiction"* was interpreted to *exclude* "children of ministers, consuls, and citizens of foreign states born within the United States." In Elk, the American Indian claimant was considered not an American citizen because the law required him to be "not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction and owing them direct and immediate allegiance." 

The *Court essentially stated *that the *status of the parents determines the citizenship of the child*. To qualify children for birthright citizenship, based on the 14th Amendment, parents must owe *"direct and immediate allegiance*" to the U.S. and be *"completely subject*" to its jurisdiction. In other words, *they must be United States citizens*. 

Congress subsequently passed a special act to grant full citizenship to American Indians, who were not citizens even through they were born within the borders of the United States. The Citizens Act of 1924, codified in 8USCSß1401, provides that: 

The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States and *subject to the jurisdiction thereof*;
(b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe. 

In 1889, the *Wong Kim Ark Supreme Court *case10,11 once again, in a ruling based strictly on the 14th Amendment, concluded that the *status of the parents was crucial in determining the citizenship of the child.* The current misinterpretation of the 14th Amendment is based in part upon the presumption that the Wong Kim Ark ruling encompassed illegal aliens. In fact, *it did not address the children of illegal aliens and non-immigrant aliens*, but rather determined an allegiance for *legal immigrant parents *based on the meaning of the word domicil(e). Since it is *inconceivable that illegal alien parents could have a legal domicile in the United States*, the *ruling clearly did not extend birthright citizenship to children of illegal alien parents*. Indeed, the ruling strengthened the original intent of the 14th Amendment. 

The original intent of the 14th Amendment was clearly *not to facilitate illegal aliens defying U.S. law *and obtaining citizenship for their offspring, nor obtaining benefits at taxpayer expense. Current estimates indicate there may be between *300,000 and 700,000 anchor babies born each year in the U.*S., thus causing illegal alien mothers to add more to the U.S. population each year than immigration from all sources in an average year before 1965. (See consequences.) 

American citizens must be wary of elected politicians voting to illegally extend our generous social benefits to illegal aliens and other criminals. 

The 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution - Fourteenth Amendment - anchor babies and birthright citizenship - interpretations and misinterpretations - US Constitution


----------



## LilOlLady

Modern disputeIn the late 1990s opposition arose over the longstanding practice of granting automatic citizenship on a jus soli basis[36] as fears grew in some circles that the existing law encouraged parents-to-be to come to the United States to have children in order to improve the parents' chances of attaining legal residency themselves.[33][37] Some media correspondents[38][39] and public leaders, including former congressman Virgil Goode, have controversially dubbed this the "anchor baby" situation,[40][41] and politicians have proposed legislation on this basis that might alter how birthright citizenship is awarded.

Bills have been introduced from time to time in Congress which have sought to declare U.S.-born children of foreign nationals not to be subject to the "jurisdiction" of the United States, and thus not entitled to citizenship via the 14th Amendment, unless at least one parent were a U.S. citizen or a lawful permanent resident. For example, Representative Nathan Deal (a Republican from Georgia) introduced the "Citizenship Reform Act of 2005" (H.R. 698) in the 109th Congress,[42] the "Birthright Citizenship Act of 2007" (H.R. 1940)[43] in the 110th Congress, and the "Birthright Citizenship Act of 2009" (H.R. 1868)[44] in the 111th Congress. Neither these nor any similar bills, however, have ever been approved by Congress.

Some legislators, unsure whether such acts of Congress would survive court challenges, have proposed that the Citizenship Clause be changed through a constitutional amendment.[45] Senate Joint Resolution 6, introduced on January 16, 2009 in the 111th Congress, proposes such an amendment;[46] however, neither this, nor any other proposed amendment, has yet been approved by Congress for ratification by the states.

The most recent judge to weigh in on the issue as to whether a constitutional amendment would be necessary to change the policy is Judge Richard Posner who remarked in a 2003 case that *"Congress would not be flouting the Constitution if it amended the Immigration and Nationality Act to put an end to the nonsense." *He explained, *"A constitutional amendment may be required to change the rule whereby birth in this country automatically confers U.S. citizenship, but I doubt it." *Posner also wrote, that automatic birthright citizenship is a policy that "Congress should rethink" and that the United States *"should not be encouraging foreigners to come to the United States solely to enable them to confer U.S. citizenship on their future children."[*47]

Professor Edward J. Erler, Professor, California State University, has argued that "Congress began to pass legislation offering citizenship to Indians on a tribe by tribe basis. Finally, in 1923, there was a universal offer to all tribes. Any Indian who consented could become an American citizen. This citizenship was based on reciprocal consent: an offer on the part of the U.S. and acceptance on the part of an individual. Thus *Congress used its legislative powers under the Fourteenth Amendment to determine who was within the jurisdiction of the U.S*. It could make a similar determination today, based on this legislative precedent, that *children born in the U.S. to illegal aliens are not subject to American jurisdiction*. A constitutional amendment is no more required now than it was in 1923."[48]

Republicans in the border state of Arizona have indicated an intention to introduce state legislation which would seek to deny U.S. citizenship to Arizona-born children of illegal immigrant parents by prohibiting the issuance of a birth certificate unless at least one parent has legal status.[49][50]

Birthright citizenship in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## goldcatt

Which wall of wiki text has absolutely nothing to do with the issue of Mississippi wanting to put up a fence at its imaginary border with Mexico.


----------



## LilOlLady

Mr Clean said:


> Of all places, Mississippi should be the* least concerned *about illegal immigration.



*Mississippi Must Act on Illegal Immigration*
By Keith Burton  Gulf Coast News.com - Editor
Updated 3/14/05 - *Illegal Aliens Get Jobs At Nuclear Power Plant*Updated 3/21/05 - Pew Study

What is it going to take to get our elected officials to start paying attention to illegal immigration?

It seems that nothing anyone says or does is enough to warrant enforcement of laws that keep illegal aliens, mostly from Mexico, *overrunning our country and yes, our state.*
Mississippi Must Act on Illegal Immigration

*
The Impact of Illegal Immigration on Mississippi;
Cost and Population Trends.*

http://www.osa.state.ms.us/documents/performance/illegal-immigration.pdf

*I think Mississippi gives a lot of shit about illegal immigration.*


----------



## manifold

I think the refundable transaction fee is a pretty good idea.

But where the heck are they gonna build a fence?


----------



## LilOlLady

goldcatt said:


> So I guess Mississippi is going to send volunteers to trespass on private property along the Mexican border and build the fences that the Feds can't because of all the takings issues?
> 
> People own that land, ya know. The States aren't going to get any further than the Feds, not without trampling property, grazing and water rights.


*
Feds Prepare Legal Battle Against Landowners Blocking Border Fence Project*Thursday, January 10, 2008  


PrintShareThisWASHINGTON &#8212;  The government is readying 102 court cases against landowners in Arizona, California and Texas for blocking efforts to select sites for a fence along the Mexican border, a Homeland Security Department official said Wednesday.

With the lawsuits expected soon, the legal action would mark an escalation in the clash between the government and the property owners. The Bush administration wants to build 370 miles of fencing and 300 miles of vehicle barriers by the end of the year.

*A number of property owners have granted the government access to their land*. But others have refused. The agency sent letters to 135 of them last month, warning they had *30 days to comply or face court action.*
Feds Prepare Legal Battle Against Landowners Blocking Border Fence Project - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum - FOXNews.com

*Eminent Domain for home land security trumps.
I think those opposed in 08  have finally had a change of heart  and begging for a fence, etc*


----------



## uscitizen

Mr Clean said:


> Of all places, Mississippi should be the least concerned about illegal immigration.



Aww give the guy a break he Watches Fox and probably thinks Miss. borders Mexico.


----------



## goldcatt

manifold said:


> I think the refundable transaction fee is a pretty good idea.
> 
> But where the heck are they gonna build a fence?



On the beach, I guess. They do call it the Gulf of Mexico....


----------



## goldcatt

LilOlLady said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I guess Mississippi is going to send volunteers to trespass on private property along the Mexican border and build the fences that the Feds can't because of all the takings issues?
> 
> People own that land, ya know. The States aren't going to get any further than the Feds, not without trampling property, grazing and water rights.
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Feds Prepare Legal Battle Against Landowners Blocking Border Fence Project*Thursday, January 10, 2008
> 
> 
> PrintShareThisWASHINGTON &#8212;  The government is readying 102 court cases against landowners in Arizona, California and Texas for blocking efforts to select sites for a fence along the Mexican border, a Homeland Security Department official said Wednesday.
> 
> With the lawsuits expected soon, the legal action would mark an escalation in the clash between the government and the property owners. The Bush administration wants to build 370 miles of fencing and 300 miles of vehicle barriers by the end of the year.
> 
> *A number of property owners have granted the government access to their land*. But others have refused. The agency sent letters to 135 of them last month, warning they had *30 days to comply or face court action.*
> Feds Prepare Legal Battle Against Landowners Blocking Border Fence Project - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum - FOXNews.com
> 
> *Eminent Domain for home land security trumps.
> I think those opposed in 08  have finally had a change of heart  and begging for a fence, etc*
Click to expand...


Yet you can't find anything on this less than 3 years old. Wonder why.


----------



## Terral

Hi Lady:



LilOlLady said:


> *Forget federal government, we'll build fence ourselves!
> Plan makes illegal immigrants pay for states to secure U.S. border*January 30, 2011
> By Drew Zahn
> © 2011 WorldNetDaily ...



This is the kind of nonsense and stupidity that makes me throw up my hands and conclude that America 'is' worthy of utter destruction off the face of the earth. First of all, building a fence does nothing about the US employers HIRING the 20 million goddamned illegal aliens already here. Secondly, about half of the illegals come here using one kind of visa or another, which a fence is never going to stop. Thirdly, the immigration 'enforcement' problem begins AT THE WORKPLACE and not on the border, which is the smokescreen put up by the Open Border Lobby to keep you looking into the wilderness somewhere. 

The idiots running this country need to figure out that enforcement of our perfectly good immigration, employment and document fraud laws AT THE WORKPLACE is the only solution. Period! You cannot even begin to solve this problem, until the EMPLOYERS are put into jail and their licenses to do business are revoked FOR LIFE for hiring the goddamned illegals in the first place. Then you need no fence, because nobody in America is willing to take the chance of hiring the illegals! Then Americans get their jobs back and the consumer/tax bases begin to enlarge again. There is no incentive for Mexican nationals to stay home, when all they must do is find a way around the border security and they are home free! The idiots running our border patrol should have two men on the border and at least one at the workplace making sure everyone working is AMERICAN. 

That is too damned easy to figure out, which says the Mississippi idiots coming up with this ridiculous 'fence' solution are part of the problem. Taxing wire transfers will never work against illegals, because they will simply mail the money home via the US Postal Service for deposit in the family bank. The idiot who dreamed up this plan is thinking that only illegals will pay, because everyone else will get a tax break. STUPID IDEA. The reason is that the supposition is that U.S. employers will continue hiring the illegals to give Mississippi their goddamned money! That will give incentives for the Mississippi government to allow more hiring of the goddamned illegals to support their new tax base. 

I swear that if you made me king for one day, that all government official heads in this country would roll!!! The entire lot is too damned stupid to figure out that only AMERICANS are supposed to have jobs in the USA, unless 'legal' provisions are made in certain circumstances. Making new laws to tax illegals is helping them stay employed, which is the reason we have high unemployment of US workers from sea to shining sea; because that is what stupid Americans deserve ... 

GL,

Terral


----------



## Terral

Jo gek:



gekaap said:


> It doesn't matter.  The constitution does not change with the whims of popular sentiment.  The law remains the law until it is changed ...



No. This is the kind of nonsense and stupidity that real Americans and real patriots are trying to show you. The 14th Amendment does not give citizenship to the citizens of other countries who come here illegally. That is how the 14th Amendment has been misinterpreted by the idiots running our government that has caused the problem in the first place. The language says:

Wiki:



> *Section 1.* All persons born or naturalized in the United States,  *and subject to the jurisdiction thereof*, are citizens of the United  States and of the State wherein they reside ...


Illegal aliens crossing our borders 'illegally' to have their anchor babies and drain social services and saddle our children with their DEBT are NOT 'subject to the jurisdiction' of ANY STATE in this union 'thereof,' but in their home country their children *are subject to the jurisdiction of MEXICO* where *their parents 'are' citizens*. The illegal aliens MUST find some way to become 'subject to the jurisdiction thereof' LEGALLY, before they can think about passing their citizenship rights to their ILLEGAL offspring. 

By contrast, the children of slaves 'were' the subjects of the slave owner who was a citizen of these United States, which means their offspring 'are' covered under the 14th Amendment to the Constitution. Blindly handing out US citizenship to illegal aliens is STUPID and not what our forefathers intended, but the idiots in office today simply misinterpret 'AND subject to the jurisdiction thereof' to mean "anybody born here legally or illegally" and the rest of us must pay the bill. 

If you do not understand that the 14th Amendment applies to slaves of US Citizen slave owners and NOT illegal aliens, then you would make the perfect candidate to join the current batch of idiots in public office ...

GL,

Terral


----------



## Terral

Hi James:



JamesInFlorida said:


> I'm all for ending anchor babies, but what would you put in it's place? How do you determine who becomes a citizen and who doesn't?



That is simple: US Citizens are born to US Citizens in the USA 'legally.'  Period. Anyone born to citizens of other countries here or abroad are citizens of the country where their parents 'are' citizens. Period.  



JamesInFlorida said:


> I personally would like to see that the only way you're automatically a citizen if you're born here is if one of your parents is already a citizen at the time you're born (even if one is an illegal).



No. If one of the parents of anyone born here is 'illegal,' that flies in the face of being born here 'legally.' Here is a good lesson for everyone reading these posts: *Legal = Legal and Illegal = Illegal*. 



JamesInFlorida said:


> Those born to legal immigrants shouldn't automatically become citizens in my opinion-but should have a pathway to citizenship.



No. All you are doing is cheapening what it means to be a US Citizen, by allowing someone to be rewarded for engaging in 'illegal' activity. Note the bold type above again. If two Americans run to Canada or Mexico to have their child, that child is subject to the same jurisdiction of his or her parents; i.e., the USA. They should be booted back to the USA with their American child to live happily ever after. The same goes for illegals having their children in the USA. Ship the whole lot back to Mexico where they have the opportunity to get in line and return to the USA using the front door. NEVER give anyone a backdoor pathway to becoming a US Citizen, or your citizenship becomes a very cheap commodity indeed ...

GL,

Terral


----------



## Ropey

Sunni Man said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islam has a lot to offer the disenfranchised and disillusioned......
> 
> 
> 
> This woman is a convert to Islam that I personally know from the mosque in Texas.
> 
> Dr. O'leary has a  PhD and teaches neuro science at a university in Austin.
> 
> So much for your non sense about Islam attracting the disenfranchised and disillusioned.
Click to expand...


So, one against the horde of disenfranchised and disillusioned?


----------



## Ropey

Sunni Man said:


> This is my last post on this thread thanks to Ropey's thread wrecking and trolling.





Can't even stand to your own word Sunni Man?


----------



## gekaap

Terrel, you obviously have no knowledge of the subject, and are trying to insert your own desires into the matter, as if they had the weight of authority.j

LilOLady, your source is unfortunately not reliable.  Let's go directly to United States v. Wong Kim Ark:



> _The question presented by the record is whether a child born in the United States, of parents of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the Emperor of China, but have a permanent domicil and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China, becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States by virtue of the first clause of the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution.
> 
> [...]
> 
> In Minor v. Happersett, Chief Justice Waite, when construing, in behalf of the court, the very provision of the Fourteenth Amendment now in question, said: "The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that." And he proceeded to resort to the common law as an aid in the construction of this provision. 21 Wall. 167.
> 
> In Smith v. Alabama, Mr. Justice Matthews, delivering the judgment of the court, said:
> 
> There is no common law of the United States, in the sense of a national customary law, distinct from the common law of England as adopted by the several States each for itself, applied as its local law, and subject to such alteration as may be provided by its own statutes. . . . There is, however, one clear exception to the statement that there is no national common law. The interpretation of the Constitution of the United States is necessarily influenced by the fact that its provisions are framed in the language of the English common law, and are to be read in the light of its history.
> 
> [...]
> 
> Lord Chief Justice Cockburn, in the same year, reviewing the whole matter, said:
> 
> By the common law of England, every person born within the dominions of the Crown, no matter whether of English or of foreign parents, and, in the latter case, whether the parents were settled or merely temporarily sojourning, in the country, was an English subject, save only the children of foreign ambassadors (who were excepted because their fathers carried their own nationality with them), or a child born to a foreigner during the hostile occupation of any part of the territories of England. No effect appears to have been given to descent as a source of nationality.
> 
> [...]
> 
> The same rule was in force in all the English Colonies upon this continent down to the time of the Declaration of Independence, and in the United States afterwards, and continued to prevail under the Constitution as originally established.
> 
> [...]
> 
> Mr. Justice Johnson said: "He was entitled to inherit as a citizen born of the State of New York." 3 Pet. 136. Mr. Justice Story stated the reasons upon this point more at large, referring to Calvin's Case, Blackstone's Commentaries, and Doe v. Jones, above cited, and saying:
> 
> Allegiance is nothing more than the tie or duty of obedience of a subject to the sovereign under whose protection he is, and allegiance by birth is that which arises from being born within the dominions and under the protection of a particular sovereign. Two things usually concur to create citizenship: first, birth locally within the dominions of the sovereign, and secondly, birth within the protection and obedience, or, in other words, within the allegiance of the sovereign. That is, the party must be born within a place where the sovereign is at the time in full possession and exercise of his power, and the party must also, at his birth, derive protection from, and consequently owe obedience or allegiance to, the sovereign, as such, de facto.
> 
> [...]
> 
> There is, therefore, little ground for the theory that, at the time of the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution of the United States, there as[sic] any settled and definite rule of international law, generally recognized by civilized nations, inconsistent with the ancient rule of citizenship by birth within the dominion.
> 
> [...]
> 
> The first section of the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution [p676] begins with the words,
> 
> All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of he State wherein they reside.
> 
> As appears upon the face of the amendment, as well as from the history of the times, this was not intended to impose any new restrictions upon citizenship, or to prevent any persons from becoming citizens by the fact of birth within the United States who would thereby have become citizens according to the law existing before its adoption. It is declaratory in form, and enabling and extending in effect. Its main purpose doubtless was, as has been often recognized by this court, to establish the citizenship of free negroes, which had been denied in the opinion delivered by Chief Justice Taney in Dred Scott v. Sandford, (1857) 19 How. 393, and to put it beyond doubt that all blacks, as well as whites, born or naturalized within the jurisdiction of the United States are citizens of the United States. The Slaughterhouse Cases (1873), 16 Wall. 36, 73; Strauder v. West Virginia (1879), 100 U.S. 303, 306.; Ex parte Virginia (1879). 100 U.S. 339, 35; Neal v. Delaware (1880), 103 U.S. 370, 386; Elk v. Wilkins (1884), 112 U.S. 94, 101. *But the opening words, "All persons born," are general, not to say universal, restricted only by place and jurisdiction, and not by color or race* -- as was clearly recognized in all the opinions delivered in The Slaughterhouse Cases, above cited.
> 
> [...]
> 
> *The foregoing considerations and authorities irresistibly lead us to these conclusions: the Fourteenth Amendment affirms the ancient and fundamental rule of citizenship by birth within the territory, in the allegiance and under the protection of the country, including all children here born of resident aliens.*_



The 14th amendment declares anyone born in the US a citizen, regardless of the citizenship of their parents (except for foreign ministers, ambassadors, etc.)


----------



## LilOlLady

goldcatt said:


> Which wall of wiki text has absolutely nothing to do with the issue of Mississippi wanting to put up a fence at its imaginary border with Mexico.



Not only border states are affected by illegal immigration. The border separates Mexico from the United States and Mississippi is a state. Mississippi has an interest in illegal and illegal immigration as much as Ariz. Here in Reno, one would think they are IN Mexico. Shopping center all Hispanic. All neighborhoods Hispanic and schools that are 90% Hispanic.


----------



## LilOlLady

goldcatt said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I guess Mississippi is going to send volunteers to trespass on private property along the Mexican border and build the fences that the Feds can't because of all the takings issues?
> 
> People own that land, ya know. The States aren't going to get any further than the Feds, not without *trampling property, grazing and water rights*.
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> Illegal aliens are doing a great jobs of trampling, killing cattle, destroying land owner's property and they are complaining now where as the did not before in 2008. Rancher has been killed.
> 
> Feds Prepare Legal Battle Against Landowners Blocking Border Fence Project*Thursday, January 10, 2008
> 
> 
> PrintShareThisWASHINGTON   The government is readying 102 court cases against landowners in Arizona, California and Texas for blocking efforts to select sites for a fence along the Mexican border, a Homeland Security Department official said Wednesday.
> 
> With the lawsuits expected soon, the legal action would mark an escalation in the clash between the government and the property owners. The Bush administration wants to build 370 miles of fencing and 300 miles of vehicle barriers by the end of the year.
> 
> *A number of property owners have granted the government access to their land*. But others have refused. The agency sent letters to 135 of them last month, warning they had *30 days to comply or face court action.*
> Feds Prepare Legal Battle Against Landowners Blocking Border Fence Project - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum - FOXNews.com
> 
> *Eminent Domain for home land security trumps.
> I think those opposed in 08  have finally had a change of heart  and begging for a fence, etc*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yet you can't find anything on this *less than 3 years old*. Wonder why.
Click to expand...


*The violence on the border has changed since 08 and so has the land owners opposition to a fence. *

*Grass-roots organization proposes citizens build AZ-MX wall* 

Posted by ladyimpactohio (Profile) 

Saturday, December 18th at 12:02AM EST 

Since the Feds have failed miserably to protect the 389-mile Arizona-Mexico border to keep drug traffickers and illegals from the US, a grass-roots group has proposed citizens take efforts into their own hands and build a wall themselves. The name of the group is The Great Wall of Arizona. 

I have been in e-mail contact with Mr. David Garretson who is heading up the project, and I agree with him in the wake of a *border patrol agent being shot and killed *it is even more imperative to have a *physical barrier*. From their website:

*Who actually owns the land?*
The land on the Arizona-Mexico border is comprised of *private, state, federal, and Indian Reservation ownership* as well as *Drug Cartel & Human Smuggler *occupation.
Grass-roots organization proposes citizens build AZ-MX wall | RedState


----------



## LilOlLady

goldcatt said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I guess Mississippi is going to send volunteers to trespass on private property along the Mexican border and build the fences that the Feds can't because of all the takings issues?
> 
> People own that land, ya know. The States aren't going to get any further than the Feds, not without trampling property, grazing and water rights.
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Feds Prepare Legal Battle Against Landowners Blocking Border Fence Project*Thursday, January 10, 2008
> 
> 
> PrintShareThisWASHINGTON &#8212;  The government is readying 102 court cases against landowners in Arizona, California and Texas for blocking efforts to select sites for a fence along the Mexican border, a Homeland Security Department official said Wednesday.
> 
> With the lawsuits expected soon, the legal action would mark an escalation in the clash between the government and the property owners. The Bush administration wants to build 370 miles of fencing and 300 miles of vehicle barriers by the end of the year.
> 
> *A number of property owners have granted the government access to their land*. But others have refused. The agency sent letters to 135 of them last month, warning they had *30 days to comply or face court action.*
> Feds Prepare Legal Battle Against Landowners Blocking Border Fence Project - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum - FOXNews.com
> 
> *Eminent Domain for home land security trumps.
> I think those opposed in 08  have finally had a change of heart  and begging for a fence, etc*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yet you can't find *anything on this less than 3 years old*. Wonder why.
Click to expand...


Is this recent enough for you? I kind a think they have a change of mind on border fence since 08:confused:


KTAR.com - *Ariz. ranchers asking for more border securityJan 27, 2011 *... The ranchers' plan calls for military units to deploy to the border, the addition of 3000 Border Patrol agents, stepped-up video ...
ktar.com/.../local.../


16 illegals sue Arizona rancher | The Federal Observer May 18, 2010... he said, after they *destroyed his property, killed his calves and broke into his hom*e. ... &#8220;*This is my land. I´m the victim here,&#8221; *Mr. Barnett said. ... 3 Responses to &#8220;16 illegals sue Arizona rancher&#8221; ...
www.federalobserver.com/2010/05/.../16-illegals-sue-arizona-rancher/ - Cached


----------



## gekaap

goldcatt said:


> So I guess Mississippi is going to send volunteers to trespass on private property along the Mexican border and build the fences that the Feds can't because of all the takings issues?
> 
> People own that land, ya know. The States aren't going to get any further than the Feds, not without trampling property, grazing and water rights.



It's called eminent domain.


----------



## Jos

Ropey said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is my last post on this thread thanks to Ropey's thread wrecking and trolling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't even stand to your own word Sunni Man?
Click to expand...


Thats rich 
http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-m...211-bet-on-the-us-and-lost-3.html#post3259205


----------



## Speeddemon22

gekaap said:


> This isn't the first time this bill has come up.  They tried to do this a couple years ago, if I remember correctly.  But it would be pointless, the Supreme Court has already long ago established that the 14th amendment declares anyone born in the US a citizen, regardless of the citizenship of the parents.



Shit, that's just the tip of the fucking iceberg.  Thanks to the Supreme Court's decision back in '82, the states have been forced to educate illegals' non-anchor baby kids (a free K-12 education)--costing us billions annually--even though they are here illegally.  Back then the Supreme Court had the audacity to say we would be "creating a permanent underclass" if we didn't educate illegals' kids.  DEPORTATION WAS SOMEHOW DEEMED IMPOSSIBLE.  WHAT A LOAD OF SHIT.  I hope all those old Supreme Court justices died a long, drawn out, miserable death for what they did to the United States with that one decision.


----------



## Speeddemon22

At any rate, the 14th WILL be amended eventually.  It's inevitable.


----------



## Sunni Man




----------



## LilOlLady

Terral said:


> Hi Lady:
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Forget federal government, we'll build fence ourselves!
> Plan makes illegal immigrants pay for states to secure U.S. border*January 30, 2011
> By Drew Zahn
> © 2011 WorldNetDaily ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the kind of nonsense and stupidity that makes me throw up my hands and conclude that America 'is' worthy of utter destruction off the face of the earth. First of all, building a fence does nothing about the US employers HIRING the 20 million goddamned illegal aliens already here. Secondly, about half of the illegals come here using one kind of visa or another, which a fence is never going to stop. Thirdly, the immigration 'enforcement' problem begins AT THE WORKPLACE and not on the border, which is the smokescreen put up by the Open Border Lobby to keep you looking into the wilderness somewhere.
> 
> The idiots running this country need to figure out that enforcement of our perfectly good immigration, employment and document fraud laws AT THE WORKPLACE is the only solution. Period! You cannot even begin to solve this problem, until the EMPLOYERS are put into jail and their licenses to do business are revoked FOR LIFE for hiring the goddamned illegals in the first place. Then you need no fence, because nobody in America is willing to take the chance of hiring the illegals! Then Americans get their jobs back and the consumer/tax bases begin to enlarge again. There is no incentive for Mexican nationals to stay home, when all they must do is find a way around the border security and they are home free! The idiots running our border patrol should have two men on the border and at least one at the workplace making sure everyone working is AMERICAN.
> 
> That is too damned easy to figure out, which says the Mississippi idiots coming up with this ridiculous 'fence' solution are part of the problem. Taxing wire transfers will never work against illegals, because they will simply mail the money home via the US Postal Service for deposit in the family bank. The idiot who dreamed up this plan is thinking that only illegals will pay, because everyone else will get a tax break. STUPID IDEA. The reason is that the supposition is that U.S. employers will continue hiring the illegals to give Mississippi their goddamned money! That will give incentives for the Mississippi government to allow more hiring of the goddamned illegals to support their new tax base.
> 
> I swear that if you made me king for one day, that all government official heads in this country would roll!!! The entire lot is too damned stupid to figure out that only AMERICANS are supposed to have jobs in the USA, unless 'legal' provisions are made in certain circumstances. Making new laws to tax illegals is helping them stay employed, which is the reason we have high unemployment of US workers from sea to shining sea; because that is what stupid Americans deserve ...
> 
> GL,
> 
> Terral
Click to expand...


Any kind border security is useless if we don't do anything about businesses hiring illegals. But it is against drug smuggling.


----------



## Ropey

A jail guard converts.  A lot of inmates in the States convert as well. 

More Muslims converting to Christianity in Africa. 

I thought you were not going to post anymore in this thread Sunni Man?



Jos said:


> This is my last post on this thread thanks to Ropey's thread wrecking and trolling.


----------



## High_Gravity

Ropey said:


> A jail guard converts.  A lot of inmates in the States convert as well.
> 
> More Muslims converting to Christianity in Africa.
> 
> I thought you were not going to post anymore in this thread Sunni Man?
> 
> 
> 
> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is my last post on this thread thanks to Ropey's thread wrecking and trolling.
Click to expand...


Ropey alot of the inmates who convert to Islam in prison in the States end up going back out on the streets and doing the same things they did before, drinking, doing drugs, fucking women etc. alot of them don't live the life of a strict Muslim when they get out.


----------



## Sunni Man

The convert Texas man featured in this video owns a trucking company in Dallas.


----------



## Ropey

LilOlLady said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFO3uM4KUDY



A female imam?

Yeah, I'm sure the Imams in the middle east will listen to her. They say that she might be able to lead in prayers, but in any discussions with men, she is to stay silent.



> There is a current controversy among Muslims regarding the circumstances in which women may act as imams&#8212;that is, lead a congregation in salat (prayer).
> 
> Certain sects, such as the Haruriyyah branch of the Kharijites movement in the 7th century, considered it acceptable for a woman to be imam. Certain medieval scholars&#8212;including Al-Tabari (838&#8211;932), Abu Thawr (764&#8211;854), Al-Muzani (791&#8211;878), and Ibn Arabi (1165&#8211;1240)&#8212;considered the practice permissible at least for optional (Nafl salat) prayers[citation needed]; *however, their views are not accepted by any major surviving group*



Thus no imam in Mexico that is female can do more than lead prayers. 

And can't do that in the middle east. 



Women as imams - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Sunni Man

High_Gravity said:


> alot of the inmates who convert to Islam in prison in the States end up going back out on the streets and doing the same things they did before, drinking, doing drugs, fucking women etc. alot of them don't live the life of a strict Muslim when they get out.


May be true; but I personally know several who after release stayed straight, follow the religion, and do alot of good works for their community.


----------



## Sunni Man

Ima*n* is a womans name in arabic.

Ima*m* is the name if of a religious leader in Islam.

No, the woman is not an Imam


----------



## High_Gravity

Sunni Man said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> alot of the inmates who convert to Islam in prison in the States end up going back out on the streets and doing the same things they did before, drinking, doing drugs, fucking women etc. alot of them don't live the life of a strict Muslim when they get out.
> 
> 
> 
> May be true; but I personally know several who after release stayed straight, follow the religion, and do alot of good works for their community.
Click to expand...


Oh I'm sure there are some who do good once they leave, Malcolm X converted to Islam while in prison. However jailhouse converts are a mixed bag, adhering to strict Muslim practices like no liquor, drugs, women etc is easier behind bars but resisting those temptations face to face when they get out is hard, some people can handle it, some people go right back to the life that led them to prison.


----------



## gekaap

Speeddemon22 said:


> Shit, that's just the tip of the fucking iceberg.  Thanks to the Supreme Court's decision back in '82, the states have been forced to educate illegals' non-anchor baby kids (a free K-12 education)--costing us billions annually--even though they are here illegally.  Back then the Supreme Court had the audacity to say we would be "creating a permanent underclass" if we didn't educate illegals' kids.  DEPORTATION WAS SOMEHOW DEEMED IMPOSSIBLE.  WHAT A LOAD OF SHIT.  I hope all those old Supreme Court justices died a long, drawn out, miserable death for what they did to the United States with that one decision.



In other words, you dislike the law, and you wish death on government officials for doing their duty to uphold the law.  Great.  Don't blame the courts because you don't like the laws of our land.


----------



## Speeddemon22

gekaap said:


> Speeddemon22 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shit, that's just the tip of the fucking iceberg.  Thanks to the Supreme Court's decision back in '82, the states have been forced to educate illegals' non-anchor baby kids (a free K-12 education)--costing us billions annually--even though they are here illegally.  Back then the Supreme Court had the audacity to say we would be "creating a permanent underclass" if we didn't educate illegals' kids.  DEPORTATION WAS SOMEHOW DEEMED IMPOSSIBLE.  WHAT A LOAD OF SHIT.  I hope all those old Supreme Court justices died a long, drawn out, miserable death for what they did to the United States with that one decision.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, you dislike the law, and you wish death on government officials for doing their duty to uphold the law.  Great.  Don't blame the courts because you don't like the laws of our land.
Click to expand...


You really think the Supreme Court was doing its duty to uphold the law  WHILE BLATANTLY DISREGARDING THE FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAWS WE ALREADY HAD ON THE BOOKS?  They HAD NO RIGHT to saddle the states with the responsibility of educating illegals' kids.  NOWHERE IN THE CONSTITUTION OR BILL OF RIGHTS DOES IT SAY THAT WE OWE AN EDUCATION TO FOREIGNERS' KIDS.  NOWHERE.  YET THE STATES GOT FUCKED IN THE ASS ANYWAY BECAUSE THESE POMPOUS, SELF-IMPORTANT BLACK ROBES DECIDED TO LEGISLATE FROM THE BENCH.  

P.S. Don't put words in my mouth.  I didn't say I wished death on "government officials" for doing their duty to uphold the law.  I said I hoped those (presumably dead) Supreme Court justices died a long, drawn-out death for fucking our country over the way they did.  They BETRAYED the people of the United States.  What part of "ILLEGAL" did they NOT UNDERSTAND?


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *LilOlLady*
> You get there the same way Egypt is getting there. Fight the corruption.



LOL... Don't make me laugh.

The entire history of Mexico from 1821 to now has been an endless succession of revolutions, uprisings, coups d'etat, etc, etc... with the aim of fighting "mismanegement of the country".

It's amazing to see how easy it is to solve all the world's problems *ON PAPER* and *ON THE INTERNET*:

Mexico can become a developed nation in a couple of years.

America can erradicate its intractable drug problem.

etc, etc, etc...


----------



## High_Gravity

José;3278381 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *LilOlLady*
> You get there the same way Egypt is getting there. Fight the corruption.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL... Don't make me laugh.
> 
> The entire history of Mexico from 1821 to now has been an endless succession of revolutions, uprisings, coups d'etat, etc, etc... with the aim of fighting "mismanegement of the country".
> 
> It's amazing to see how easy it is to solve all the world's problems *ON PAPER* and *ON THE INTERNET*:
> 
> Mexico can become a developed nation in a couple of years.
> 
> America can erradicate its intractable drug problem.
> 
> etc, etc, etc...
Click to expand...


Its going to take Egypt decades to fix the problems they have in that country, Mubarak was just one man, removing him will do very little to change life for the average Egyptian.


----------



## Angelhair

_AND - Mexico can eradicate the PRODUCTION of the drugs that 'ONLY americans' consume....yeah, right!_


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *High_Gravity*
> Its going to take Egypt decades to fix the problems they have in that country, Mubarak was just one man, removing him will do very little to change life for the average Egyptian.



Good comparison, HG.  

Although I'd venture to say it's gonna take centuries, "if ever", for Mexico to fix its problems. I'm afraid I'm not as optimistic as you are. 

Anyway it's *DEFINITELY* not as simple as a cake recipe as the members of this Board try to portray it in their attempts to blame Mexico's government for Mexico's underdevelopment and illegal immigration.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Angelhair*
> AND - Mexico can eradicate the PRODUCTION of the drugs that 'ONLY americans' consume....yeah, right!



*SPEAKING OF THE DEVIL*    

Angelhair and LilOlLady would make a lovely lesbian couple. They both blame Mexico for everything bad that happens under the sun (ie, in America)


----------



## High_Gravity

José;3278424 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *High_Gravity*
> Its going to take Egypt decades to fix the problems they have in that country, Mubarak was just one man, removing him will do very little to change life for the average Egyptian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good comparison, HG.
> 
> Although I'd venture to say it's gonna take centuries, "if ever", for Mexico to fix its problems. I'm afraid I'm not as optimistic as you are.
> 
> Anyway it's *DEFINITELY* not as simple as a cake recipe as the members of this Board try to portray it in their attempts to blame Mexico's government for Mexico's underdevelopment and illegal immigration.
Click to expand...


Oh I agree, I have never been to Mexico but from what I read about there is a huge corruption problem there and the Cartels are running everything, and the funny thing about is the same Narcotics officers who try to bust the Cartels during the day work security for them at night! I think the first order of business for Mexico is to handle the Cartels, they are doing the same thing to Mexico that the Italian Mafia was doing in the US during prohibition. Either way yes, it will take a long time to make a significant change there, there are no overnight changes to stuff like this anywhere, even in the US.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Nevada not a border state but;*
*Nevadas percentage of illegal immigrants in workforce tops nation*
By Timothy Pratt

Tuesday, April 14, 2009 | 9:47 a.m.

 Nevada tops the nation when it comes to the percentage of illegal immigrants in the workforce, according to a report issued today by the Pew Hispanic Center.

The Washington-based think tank estimates that 170,000 workers, or 12.2 percent of the state's total, are illegal immigrants. That is more than twice the national average, which is 5.4 percent. The top five were rounded out by California, Arizona, New Jersey and Florida. The figures are 2008 estimates.

The report also estimates that there are 230,000 undocumented immigrants in Nevada, placing the state 13th nationwide.

Other findings in the report include that 4 million children, or nearly three-fourths of the children born to illegal immigrants, are U.S. citizens by birth.

The report also notes that Nevada is one of five states in which at least one in 10 children in K-12 schools has a parent who is an illegal immigrant.

To read the full report go to pewhispanic.org.

Nevada&#39;s percentage of illegal immigrants in workforce tops nation - Tuesday, April 14, 2009 | 9:47 a.m. - Las Vegas Sun

New Report: *Nevada has Highest Rate of Illegal Immigrants and Illegal Workers*
New Report: Nevada has Highest Rate of Illegal Immigrants and Il - KTVN Channel 2 - Reno Tahoe News Weather, Video -


----------



## JamesInFlorida

Terral said:


> Hi James:
> 
> 
> 
> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm all for ending anchor babies, but what would you put in it's place? How do you determine who becomes a citizen and who doesn't?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is simple: US Citizens are born to US Citizens in the USA 'legally.'  Period. Anyone born to citizens of other countries here or abroad are citizens of the country where their parents 'are' citizens. Period.
Click to expand...


I agree with this (I state so lower in my post).




Terral said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> 
> I personally would like to see that the only way you're automatically a citizen if you're born here is if one of your parents is already a citizen at the time you're born (even if one is an illegal).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No. If one of the parents of anyone born here is 'illegal,' that flies in the face of being born here 'legally.' Here is a good lesson for everyone reading these posts: *Legal = Legal and Illegal = Illegal*.
Click to expand...


If one of their parents is a citizen-then they shouldn't become a citizen? I disagree with that. Currently let's say you're born abroad and only one of your parents is American-you can still be granted American citizenship. You only need one parent to be an American-not both.



Terral said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those born to legal immigrants shouldn't automatically become citizens in my opinion-but should have a pathway to citizenship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No. All you are doing is cheapening what it means to be a US Citizen, by allowing someone to be rewarded for engaging in 'illegal' activity. Note the bold type above again. If two Americans* run *to Canada or Mexico to have their child, that child is subject to the same jurisdiction of his or her parents; i.e., the USA. They should be booted back to the USA with their American child to live happily ever after. The same goes for illegals having their children in the USA. Ship the whole lot back to Mexico where they have the opportunity to get in line and return to the USA using the front door. NEVER give anyone a backdoor pathway to becoming a US Citizen, or your citizenship becomes a very cheap commodity indeed ...
Click to expand...


No no no I said legal immigrants-not legal visitors. There's a difference. When you cross the border to Canada for example just to visit-you don't necessarily go through immigration (only if they suspect something, and want to check your background). You answer a few simple questions and are on your way. If you're immigrating to Canada (which I did for 3 years), you have to go through a very long and in depth process. It's not simply "running in" as you put it.

edit: And for the last part I agree if a child is born to two illegals in the USA-send them all back without citizenship. All for that.


----------



## rdean

Funny how Republicans scream for MORE government when they target a new group of people.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Census estimates show big gains for US minorities* 
 2010  .By HOPE YEN, 
Associated Press  

WASHINGTON  U.S. racial minorities accounted for roughly* 85 percent of the nation's population growth* over the last decade  one of the largest shares ever  with *Hispanics accounting for much of the gain in many of the states picking up new House seats*.

Preliminary census estimates also suggest the number of multiracial Americans jumped roughly 20 percent since 2000, to over 5 million.


Census estimates show big gains for US minorities - Yahoo! News

Not really about race, but about importing poverty.


----------



## Truthmatters

what a racist thing to say


----------



## LilOlLady

_Some 40 states show population *losses of white children since 2000 *due to declining birth rates. Minorities represented all of the increases in the under-18 population in Texas and Florida, and *most of the gains in the child population *in *Nevada and Arizona*.


http://www.usmessageboard.com/immig...-american-as-we-know-it-gone.html#post3282102


----------



## 30x90

Importing poverty is right...and all of them resent white people, so they infiltrate the govt. and corrupt or manipulate it from the inside.
I think many people know this intuitively...We cater to the lowest common denominator in this country though, so it shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone.


----------



## LilOlLady

Truthmatters said:


> what a racist thing to say




Racist but factual. Importation of poverty is leading to our demise quickly. American as we know it *IS *gone forever and poverty is growing us into the *biggest third world nation.* We will soon disolve the borders, can't control it now, and become *like Mexico with all of Mexico's problems*. Racist? Depends on who you are and how you want to look at it. American has been *invaded and occupied by poverty.*
Would it be racist if all the growth had been the wealthy of Mexico who were professionals like doctors, nurses,etc and actually contributed to the growth of our economy instead of contributing to the fall?
Immgrant of old even tho poor did not draw on the economy, they help build this country and ask nothing from it in return. Those coming in now are making no contribution. They have depeleted our welfare system, education system and legal system.
*If Truthmatters, then speak the truth.*


----------



## LilOlLady

Truthmatters said:


> what a racist thing to say



Exactly what is racist? The name of my post or the article? Which is fact?
Or is "racist" the only comment you can make on the subject?


----------



## High_Gravity

White people don't have as many children on average as Hispanic families, what do you suggest white folks do? start popping out kids left and right that they can't afford to care for?


----------



## 30x90

High_Gravity said:


> White people don't have as many children on average as Hispanic families, what do you suggest white folks do? start popping out kids left and right that they can't afford to care for?



No.That would be lowering the standard even further.
Many white people are slowly starting to wake up and realizing that all this "multi cultural" propaganda and forced "equality" is killing the country they built.


----------



## LilOlLady

The growth could be much higher since many Hispanics were afraid to fill out the forms.


----------



## LilOlLady

30x90 said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> White people don't have as many children on average as Hispanic families, what do you suggest white folks do? start popping out kids left and right that they can't afford to care for?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.That would be lowering the standard even further.
> Many white people are slowly starting to wake up and realizing that all this "multi cultural" propaganda and forced "equality" is killing the country they built.
Click to expand...


Now that's racist. Mulit races built this country. Blacks contributed 200 years of free labor. White people built it on the backs of Native Americans, Hispanic, Jews, and black, etc. It is the white people who has allowed the importation of poverty. White men, for the time being, is still running this country in to the ground.
White people, the founding father included, have blood stained hand that will never come clean.
Cheap illegal alien labor is theft and there was a documentary on showing how this country will end. Can't remember the name of it. We will never recover from what we are experiencing now. It's just the beginning of the end of America.


----------



## rdean

But what percent of the Republican Party is "white"?


----------



## LilOlLady

High_Gravity said:


> White people don't have as many children on average as Hispanic families, what do you suggest white folks do? start popping out kids left and right that they can't afford to care for?



I would suggest we stop importing so much poverty who is creating more poverty. Poverty and not the lack of white people will be our destruction. I am against any race have kids I have to take care of. Hispanic happed to be the highest on the list right now. Black are accused of aborting their kids. Whites are not having enough.


----------



## LilOlLady

rdean said:


> But what percent of the Republican Party is "white"?





PRINCETON, NJ -- More than 6 in 10 Republicans today are white conservatives, while most of the rest are whites with other ideological leanings; only 11% of Republicans are Hispanics, or are blacks or members of other races. By contrast, only 12% of Democrats are white conservatives, while about half are white moderates or liberals and a third are nonwhite.

Republican Base Heavily White, Conservative, Religious


----------



## 30x90

LilOlLady said:


> 30x90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> White people don't have as many children on average as Hispanic families, what do you suggest white folks do? start popping out kids left and right that they can't afford to care for?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.That would be lowering the standard even further.
> Many white people are slowly starting to wake up and realizing that all this "multi cultural" propaganda and forced "equality" is killing the country they built.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now that's racist. Mulit races built this country. Blacks contributed 200 years of free labor. White people built it on the backs of Native Americans, Hispanic, Jews, and black, etc. It is the white people who has allowed the importation of poverty. White men, for the time being, is still running this country in to the ground.
> White people, the founding father included, have blood stained hand that will never come clean.
> Cheap illegal alien labor is theft and there was a documentary on showing how this country will end. Can't remember the name of it. We will never recover from what we are experiencing now. It's just the beginning of the end of America.
Click to expand...


White people's achievements and inventions in this country far surpass what negroes ever did.White people founded this country. 
Negro slaves were mostly used as farm animals...and they were living in the stone age in africa before they got captured by their own people and sold around the world as slaves.Actually they were better off in the long run.Ask any negro if he thinks he'd be better off in africa..

Native americans didn't establish governments or nations or states or laws or any type of formal civilization. The white man did all that. 
They were basically just itinerant tribes moving here and there to keep up with the food.

Sorry, but there is no "equality" in nature. Nothing is "equal".


----------



## Avorysuds

Truthmatters said:


> what a racist thing to say



You are in fact the most clueless poster on the entire internet.


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## High_Gravity

I think minorities need to take a page out of the book from white people and only have children that you can actually afford to care for on your own without government help.


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## draper

Ameri*ca* as we know it, gone.  

Geronimo could have said that too................

What do you propose we do about it?  Insist on whites having more kids?  Sterilize hispanic women?


----------



## rdean

LilOlLady said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> But what percent of the Republican Party is "white"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PRINCETON, NJ -- More than 6 in 10 Republicans today are white conservatives, while most of the rest are whites with other ideological leanings; only 11% of Republicans are Hispanics, or are blacks or members of other races. By contrast, only 12% of Democrats are white conservatives, while about half are white moderates or liberals and a third are nonwhite.
> 
> Republican Base Heavily White, Conservative, Religious
Click to expand...


Actually, if you count in error, it's probably between 88% and 91% white.  

Republicans have been calling me names for the last year for saying the Republican Party is 90% white and mostly Christian.  When I point out that even though the majority of Democrats are white, those whites include poor, rich, gays, feminists, liberals, conservatives, atheists, college professors, scientists and so one.  This is why the Democrats are a coalition and Republicans are not.   In my mind, because of the way Republicans go after one minority or another, they are not a party, but a "gang".

When I asked how many "liberals" are in the Republican Party, the only one any could come up with was Arnold Schwarzenegger and even that is debatable.


----------



## rdean

draper said:


> Ameri*ca* as we know it, gone.
> 
> Geronimo could have said that too................
> 
> What do you propose we do about it?  Insist on whites having more kids?  Sterilize hispanic women?



Obviously the only two choices.


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## oxfordcoma

Poverty is home grown and supported by people like you that force a direct association between race and poverty. if anything, declining Caucasian birth rates indicate that white people are the poor ones, too poor to afford children. 
I don't know why I bother reading the US boards, there are an insurmountable number of bigots and idiots with modest typing skills in this country.


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## gekaap

Truthmatters said:


> what a racist thing to say



How is it racist?  People often wonder how I, as a Hispanic, justify my views on being against illegal immigration and wanting to prevent/minimize cultural pollution from a third world country like Mexico.  My answer is simple.  I have nothing against any race, my issue is with their cultural values and economic effects on our country.  Disliking what a group of people does, who happen to derive from a common race, or their effects on my country does not mean that my position is racist.  What would be racist would be to accept undesirable traits simply because the group is composed of a given race.


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## uscitizen

America as we know it is always with us.
Having a tense issue?


----------



## High_Gravity

oxfordcoma said:


> Poverty is home grown and supported by people like you that force a direct association between race and poverty. if anything, declining Caucasian birth rates indicate that white people are the poor ones, too poor to afford children.
> I don't know why I bother reading the US boards, there are an insurmountable number of bigots and idiots with modest typing skills in this country.



This is not true, upper and middle class whites usually only have a number of children they can afford without going on welfare and food stamps. Minorities like the Hispanics have alot of children they cannot afford on their own and use the help of food stamps and welfare to support them, are you saying whites need to do the same thing? taking care of a child nowadays is expensive, ain't no way anyone can take care of 5-6 children without assistance unless hes getting paid a nice salary.


----------



## Angelhair

_Truth matters - but - the truth does not matter to Truthmatters! _


----------



## uscitizen

If we had just not let those drunken worthless Irish in....

What ever happened to the melting pot concept?


----------



## Angelhair

_So we kept the drunken worthless Irish out and accepted the drunken worthless 'others' - great going._


----------



## JamesInFlorida

gekaap said:


> oxfordcoma said:
> 
> 
> 
> if anything, declining Caucasian birth rates indicate that white people are the poor ones, too poor to afford children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is unfounded.  Being well to do does not create children.  There are plenty of reason why people may choose to not have children, or chose to have only one or two children.  One of those reasons is as a matter of responsibility.  For example, I will never have children because I know that I will never be able to be a good parent.  Thus the responsible thing for me to do is to avoid parenthood.  Toward that end I make responsible decisions and actions regarding my sex life.  On the other hand, Mexican culture does not embrace this kind of reproductive responsibility.  *There's a county just south of San Antonio, TX *where I first lived when I first moved to Texas.  *The population is at least 90% Mexican,* and everywhere you look you see rampant pregnancy of girls as young as 13 years old.  On more than one occasion I would see a girl of 14 or 15 pushing a stroller with one child, carrying another on her hip, while she was pregnant with her third.  If one of these girls reaches the age of 18 and has not yet had a child, the rest of the community is dumbstruck as to how and why not.  Of course, these people aren't well to do at all.  Most of them are pretty much dirt poor.  But that doesn't stop them from having children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know why I bother reading the US boards, there are an insurmountable number of bigots and idiots with modest typing skills in this country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not usually inclined to harp on people's grammar or things like that, unless what they've written is simply unintelligible, but next time you complain about people's typing skills, I'd advise making sure that you've used proper capitalization the whole way through your post.
Click to expand...


Just playing devil's advocate here, but the county directly south of San Antonio (Atascosa County), has 60.5% of it's population being any hispanic or latino descent. While this is high-it's a FAR cry from "at least 90%". 

Atascosa County, Texas - Fact Sheet - American FactFinder


----------



## Megatron

30x90 said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> White people don't have as many children on average as Hispanic families, what do you suggest white folks do? start popping out kids left and right that they can't afford to care for?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.That would be lowering the standard even further.
> Many white people are slowly starting to wake up and realizing that all this "multi cultural" propaganda and forced "equality" is killing the country they built.
Click to expand...


Hell yeah!!! then maybe we can all get some of that Obama money!!


----------



## Sallow

30x90 said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 30x90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.That would be lowering the standard even further.
> Many white people are slowly starting to wake up and realizing that all this "multi cultural" propaganda and forced "equality" is killing the country they built.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now that's racist. Mulit races built this country. Blacks contributed 200 years of free labor. White people built it on the backs of Native Americans, Hispanic, Jews, and black, etc. It is the white people who has allowed the importation of poverty. White men, for the time being, is still running this country in to the ground.
> White people, the founding father included, have blood stained hand that will never come clean.
> Cheap illegal alien labor is theft and there was a documentary on showing how this country will end. Can't remember the name of it. We will never recover from what we are experiencing now. It's just the beginning of the end of America.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> White people's achievements and inventions in this country far surpass what negroes ever did.White people founded this country.
> Negro slaves were mostly used as farm animals...and they were living in the stone age in africa before they got captured by their own people and sold around the world as slaves.Actually they were better off in the long run.Ask any negro if he thinks he'd be better off in africa..
> 
> Native americans didn't establish governments or nations or states or laws or any type of formal civilization. The white man did all that.
> They were basically just itinerant tribes moving here and there to keep up with the food.
> 
> Sorry, but there is no "equality" in nature. Nothing is "equal".
Click to expand...


Well by you're own assessment..the tables are a turning..


----------



## 30x90

Sallow said:


> 30x90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now that's racist. Mulit races built this country. Blacks contributed 200 years of free labor. White people built it on the backs of Native Americans, Hispanic, Jews, and black, etc. It is the white people who has allowed the importation of poverty. White men, for the time being, is still running this country in to the ground.
> White people, the founding father included, have blood stained hand that will never come clean.
> Cheap illegal alien labor is theft and there was a documentary on showing how this country will end. Can't remember the name of it. We will never recover from what we are experiencing now. It's just the beginning of the end of America.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> White people's achievements and inventions in this country far surpass what negroes ever did.White people founded this country.
> Negro slaves were mostly used as farm animals...and they were living in the stone age in africa before they got captured by their own people and sold around the world as slaves.Actually they were better off in the long run.Ask any negro if he thinks he'd be better off in africa..
> 
> Native americans didn't establish governments or nations or states or laws or any type of formal civilization. The white man did all that.
> They were basically just itinerant tribes moving here and there to keep up with the food.
> 
> Sorry, but there is no "equality" in nature. Nothing is "equal".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well by you're own assessment..the tables are a turning..
Click to expand...


I don't get your point?...Can you elaborate?


----------



## FifthColumn

LilOlLady said:


> 30x90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> White people don't have as many children on average as Hispanic families, what do you suggest white folks do? start popping out kids left and right that they can't afford to care for?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.That would be lowering the standard even further.
> Many white people are slowly starting to wake up and realizing that all this "multi cultural" propaganda and forced "equality" is killing the country they built.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now that's racist. Mulit races built this country. Blacks contributed 200 years of free labor. White people built it on the backs of Native Americans, Hispanic, Jews, and black, etc. It is the white people who has allowed the importation of poverty. White men, for the time being, is still running this country in to the ground.
> White people, the founding father included, have blood stained hand that will never come clean.
> Cheap illegal alien labor is theft and there was a documentary on showing how this country will end. Can't remember the name of it. We will never recover from what we are experiencing now. It's just the beginning of the end of America.
Click to expand...

 
The largest group of people that died in "World" War One and Two was white. Those people would have changed the numbers drastically. 

Remember only Brazil sent 25,000 troops in WW2 and no Latin Americans fought in WW1. Cowards always seem to survive tragedies.


----------



## editec

When a society stops caring about what happens to its people (as this one has of late) then you can pretty much expect that those people will not thrive.

Middle class families don't breed as quickly as the very poor because they try to space children according to their ability to raise them.

AS as it has been getting harder to start a family, buy a home and makes meet, those of us who were raised with middle class values started our careers later, marrying later and limiting the number of children we had.

Now if you're a Libertarian you see that as a wise decision for the individual, and it is a wise decision for middle class people with middle class aspiractions,

Sadly, its also a massive TRAGEDY OF THE COMMONS.

Why?

Because the middle class was the prodecitive class, and as fewer  and fewer people can suvive in that class, and as their kids abaondon the values of that class, well then, we end up with more poor, more poor who breed like poor people, and more people who are less productive, too.

The THEORY that there is no society, and that society is nothing but individuals interaction is flawed.

In fact it's terribly flawed.  What that is really describing isn't a social animal at all.

What that is describing is the law of jungle imposed on a society of men.

We ARE our brothers keepers, folks.

And not for any silly reason like because GOD wants us to, but because we are SOCIAL ANIMALS who must creates societies that serve both the indicidual in that society, and also the society itself.

We are a society going MAD, folks.

And not just America, but most of the world since our masters are becoming the masters of the world.


----------



## LilOlLady

30x90 said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 30x90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.That would be lowering the standard even further.
> Many white people are slowly starting to wake up and realizing that all this "multi cultural" propaganda and forced "equality" is killing the country they built.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now that's racist. Mulit races built this country. Blacks contributed 200 years of free labor. White people built it on the backs of Native Americans, Hispanic, Jews, and black, etc. It is the white people who has allowed the importation of poverty. White men, for the time being, is still running this country in to the ground.
> White people, the founding father included, have blood stained hand that will never come clean.
> Cheap illegal alien labor is theft and there was a documentary on showing how this country will end. Can't remember the name of it. We will never recover from what we are experiencing now. It's just the beginning of the end of America.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> White people's achievements and inventions in this country far surpass what negroes ever did.White people founded this country.
> Negro slaves were mostly used as farm animals...and they were living in the stone age in africa before they got captured by their own people and sold around the world as slaves.Actually they were better off in the long run.Ask any negro if he thinks he'd be better off in africa..
> 
> Native americans didn't establish governments or nations or states or laws or any type of formal civilization. The white man did all that.
> They were basically just itinerant tribes moving here and there to keep up with the food.
> 
> Sorry, but there is no "equality" in nature. Nothing is "equal".
Click to expand...


Know your history. Africa contributed most of what white peole have stolen from them. Blacks are far more intellient than white.
Are you proud of civilization white man has created?


----------



## LilOlLady

*Africa's Contribution To Contemporarily Western Civilization*
By Edmund Zar-Zar Bargblor



The Perspective
Atlanta, Georgia

February 19, 2003


This article is a contribution to the continuing debate between Western and African scholars regarding the role Africans played in the development of modern civilization. According to Dr. George G. M. James, author of the book, Stolen Legacy," the authors of Greek philosophy were not the Greeks but the people of North Africa, commonly called the Egyptians; and the *praise and honor falsely given to the Greeks for centuries belong to the people of North Africa*, and therefore to the African continent."



Apparently, the impression given by some Western scholars that the African continent made little or no contributions to civilization, and that its people are naturally primitive has, unfortunately, become the *basis of racial prejudice and negative perception directed against all people of African origin*.



This article, therefore, is an overview of *Africa's contributions to Western Civilization*. As such, it will briefly trace the history of Africa beginning with the empire of ancient Egypt and continues on to other African empires that developed thereafter. It will also review some aspect of* African Civilization and the impact it had on the development of Western Civilization*. 

Africa's Contribution To Contemporarily Western Civilization

Black are more intelligent and stronger. They survived 200 years of imprisoned an force labor and many atrocities. Black are my heros because they are the beginning of mankind and contributed to the world.


----------



## LilOlLady

The African Contribution to Technology and Science
by Yosef ben-Jochannan (1986)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(A lecture delivered for the Minority Ethnic Unit of the Greater London Council, London, England, March 6&#8211;8, 1986. It was addressed mainly to the African community in London consisting of African people from the Caribbean and African people from Africa.) 
I will first express my appreciation for you having me here, and ask that you meticulously follow my comments, because as you know I'm known to be controversial, and that's an understatement. I'm controversial not because something is wrong with my documentation, but because I challenge Western hegemony.

Africa, as the label of my talk, cannot be spoken of in terms of Adam and Eve, because long before they had an Adam and Eve there was an Africa and African people, with concepts that predated Abraham. All of the pyramids of Africa, not only those in Egypt, but those in Sudan, and the two in northern Ethiopia (which the British and the Berlin Conference removed and put into southern Sudan), where built thousands of years before there was an Adam and Eve mentioned anywhere on the planet. When you get to the birth of Abraham, at the same time when the Africans along the Nile are already in their thirteenth dynastic period, there is no Adam and Eve, because the Hebrews gave you the concept of Adam and Eve. Most of you believe that it has something to do with facts, rather than theocracy.

To speak of Africa you would have to revise your concept of the Virgin Mary and understand that it's nothing but a copy of Isis, and her husband God Osiris. You will also have to go to the Nile Valley to the temples there and see that this is thousands of years before Westminster Abbey, and, of course the Vatican in Rome. You can go all over the Nile Valley and elsewhere, and I use the Nile Valley, particularly, in that the oldest records of man are still there in terms of monuments. Of course, there are a lot stolen from Africa here in London, and in Berlin or other such places.

Your ancestors gave to the world the calendar in 10,000 B.C.E. (Before the common "Christian" Era). That is 8,000 years before Adam and Eve. Your ancestors revised that dating system because of their understanding of the astronomical calculations. It is the science of astronomy that gives the ability to read calendars. Thus 10,000 B.C.E. saw the first calendar. The term is self explanatory, the solar calendar showing the relationship of the moon and the sun, etc. that gives us the basis of the present calendar, with 364 days corrected each year, instead of 365 days corrected each fourth year. And I will say again that there wasn't a single European society in existence at that time. The first European writer, Homer, had not been born yet. And when Homer was born and finally became literate because of the teachings the Africans gave him, he too started to corroborate the evidence your ancestors had by stating that even the gods of Europe, Greece, in particular, which was then called Pyrrhus, came from Ethiopia.

I'm sure that those of you who have been to college, if not here in England somewhere else, know that I'm quoting from two works of Homer, the Iliad and the Odyssey, which brought Europe and England into civilization. The African we must talk about is the African that caused people to understand science, medicine, law, engineering, etc. It is common at the universities here to deal with science as if the art of medicine came from a Greek named Hippocrates. We don't have Hippocrates until about 333 B.C.E. Yet we don't need any record other than Hippocrates himself to know that what is being taught at the universities here are lies.

One has to realize that Hippocrates himself, in what is called the Hippocratic Oath, wrote that he had a god named Escalipius, the Greek name for the God Imhotep. Imhotep had died 2500 years before the birth of Hippocrates. Imhotep is the first known multigenius other than the one you call Michelangelo. We don't have Michelangelo until 1609 and he is not known until he does the work of Pope Julius II, who commissioned Michelangelo to paint the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. Michelangelo used his cousin and other relatives as models for some of the biblical characters that he painted. The basis of engineering was created by Imhotep. He created the first stone structure; that building still stands in a place called Sakkara, about less than an hour north-west of what is today called Cairo. And here you will see the Grand Lodge of Djoser at Sakkara. That modern structure was built in the Third Dynasty, since Djoser was the third pharaoh of the Third Dynasty. Imhotep was the man who gave us the little quip, "eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we shall die."

The FIRST WORLD western university was the University of Jenne of Timbuktu. But as we continue, we realize that in the universities here you use paper to write on, and if it was not for paper the means of communication would not be as it is today. But in Egypt, Sudan and other such places, and I will remind you that Egypt is still in Africa, the Africans reached such a height in engineering that we even turned the Nile in an s-turn to cut down the flow when the inundation period came. That brings us to 2200 B.C. That means at least 1400 years before the first European wrote anything.

Africa, Mother Africa, as I prefer to call her, understanding that the Greeks called her Africa in about 500&#8211;400 B.C. I'm talking about the time when the first Greeks who had gone to Pyrrus, who had come into Egypt by way of Leba (now called Libya) and established their little villages in a little enclave, they then called Africa long before the continent was partitioned by the colonialists. I am speaking about 11.3 or 11.5 million square miles of land, where first the concept of a God and Goddess Nut is shown as the mother of the sky. Symbolically, the God Geb, the god of the earth, lived in a little chapel in the center of Hathor. The African woman is giving birth even to the sun, in the morning through her vagina and receiving the sun back in the evening through her mouth. This shows the whole rotation of the world, long before the world had a beginning and an end. These Africans along the Nile were to do more of this. They were to give us a God Osiris, where people went yearly to pay pilgrimage long before there was a wailing wall in Palestine or a myth of a Jesus born in Bethlehem, which changed at the Nicene Conference of Bishops, ordered by Constantine and removed from a cave in Ethiopia to a manger in Bethlehem.

It is Africa that gave birth to Hadzart Bilal ibn Rahab, who taught Mohammed ibn Abdullah, who was illiterate in his own language, not able to read and write. In spite of what your belief system may be, Hadzart Bilal ibn Rahab became the head of the Moslem embassies under Mohammed ibn Abdullah, Omar the Great, and Abu Bakr. I think that we need to know history before we can quote texts in religious scriptures.

There was a myth of Africa as the home of a people who ate each other and missionaries. I wish we did eat the missionaries, it's never too late! We've got to understand that this Africa we are speaking about even established Europe's greatest universities and first, the University of Salamanca in Spain. The Africa we are speaking about produced the ancestors of the present Queen of England, George III, the German king who spoke no English. We forget that Elizabeth's grandparents and ancestors are related to George III, who was the son of Alexander the Medici, the cardinal of Rome who later became Pope, and an Ethiopian woman by the name of Martha. So I have to say, don't worry too much about it because Elizabeth belongs to the family. The Africa, which you may not know, happened to give birth to Zinjanthropus Boisei by the Africans of Kenya. The Leakey family, Louis and Mary, dated him to 1.7 million years old. Adam is about 4000&#8211;5000 years. The Africa you do not know gave birth also to Lucy in Ethiopia dated 3.2 million years old, they are both in Kenyan and Ethiopian museums. And some of us are still ashamed to be Africans! Some of us pay money to have our nose reshaped, our hair fried and boiled and all sorts of things, because we don't know this Africa; we know the Africa of the slave trade with John Hawkins from London and the other little songs.

Yes, that is the phase of Africa. Surely, slavery is a phase of lives past, but slavery is a tiny little bit from 640 A.D. with the Arabs, 1506 A.D. with the Europeans to now as against what I'm talking about; it is minuscule by comparison, because if I wished to go back to Africa, not only when we were performing astronomy, engineering in establishing the pyramids and so forth, but when we gave to the world the fundamental moral concept. "I have not killed man or woman." This is a response to the admonishing of the Goddess Maat. You notice that every time we talk about justice and rights we have as African woman representing the scale of justice. The response to the admonishing which would have stated, "You shall not speak ill of your mother and your father; you shall not kill man or woman; you shall not hide a light under a bushel," sounds familiar to you because they said some guy named Moses discovered them thousands of years later on Mount Sinai.

Yet they said Moses was born in Goshen. This is the Goshen in Egypt according to the Torah or the Old Testament in the Book of Exodus. Moses had to be trained, and if he was born and lived there (for between age one to eighty-five years of age), according to your Bible, then he must have read this, because he was taught in the Grand Lodge. If he went to the lodge at age seven as a young boy, then he did not come out until he was forty-seven, because it took forty years of training to make a priest in all of the disciplines. So then, Moses came as nothing but a copy of the Egyptian priests and Teachings of The Egyptian Mysteries System.

These same Africans went on to give us the concept of the monotheistic deity. Thus it was that Amenhotep IV, who changed his name to Akhenaton, who gave us the concept of a solitary god by the name of Aten. Akhenaton died long before the birth of Moses. Is it possible for you to come to England, go to kindergarten here, go to elementary school, college, do post-doctoral work and never hear of the English national anthem, the Magna Carta, or Queen Anne's stature? Is it possible, just as it was for Moses to be born in Egypt, a soul brother, because his first wife was Deborah, according to the Bible, and had never heard of Akhenaton.

And it is said that when Moses was running away from the Pharaoh for committing murder (before he got the rod of Mount Sinai), and his brother Aaron was charged for stealing from the Pharaoh's treasury, he met Deborah. It would seem to be that Deborah said, "That Egyptian," pointing to Moses; there was nothing in Moses to tell that he was Jewish; he was not wearing any special clothes; he looked like any other soul brother you can find in London, the Caribbean, Nigeria, Ethiopia, Ghana, the South Pacific. And then you say you are the minority! You are members of the third world. I am not a member of the third world, I am a member of the first world.

When one of the first of the so-called philosophers came to Egypt, we see him before 640 B.C.E. When he was supposed to have released his philosophical thinking, he is in Egypt. From Socrates down to Aristotle, the so-called post-Socratian philosopher, every one of them spent several years in Egypt and of course the only one who couldn't come since he was the creation of Plato's mind, was Socrates. And even he (Socrates) was supposed to have taken the hemlock for teaching African philosophy: "Socrates is an evil doer" was part of the charge against him. Plato had to run (and all the others) for teaching this philosophy. Would you have to run from England for teaching English history? Neither would the Greek government persecute the Greek philosophers for teaching Greek philosophy. It was somebody's Philosophy they were teaching, and where did they go to school to know whose philosophy?

It is not until the Persians in 525 B.C.E. allowed them in, and it was not until 323 B.C.E. at the death of Alexander, the son of Philip of Macedonia, that Aristotle was allowed by General Soter (who changed his name to Ptolemy I) to have Tusak to bring those works down, that the Greeks had access to Egyptian works. Those who could study in Egypt for themselves did so, while some were sent over to Greece where they established what they called the Peripatetic schools in what later was called Alexandria, out of African materials.

Is that the Africa you know? It couldn't be, otherwise you couldn't be praising your masters; you would be going back to your educational past and be your own master, at least if not physically, mentally. It is difficult, because colonialism brings to us a kind of history written by the conqueror for the conquered to read and enjoy. When the conquered looks around and finds that even God speaks from the heart of the conqueror, the conquered then becomes suspicious of God. What is God's interest in all of this? It is not the African who said in the Songs of Solomon, Chapter 1, Verses 1&#8211;9, and when you get to 8 and 9, it says, "Ye daughters of Canaan look not upon me because I am black, because I'm beautiful. My mother put me in the vineyard, but my sister, she kept indoors." That is why the Queen of Sheba turned black. I thought it was because her mother and father were black! But even in the Bible you find lies, racism and all that. As if we didn't have Bibles. We have "The Book of the Dead" which was changed right here in London from its original name in 1895 at the British Museum. It was called "The Book of Coming Forth By Day and Night." We have the "Book of the Divines," "The Book of Judgment," "The Heart of Judgment," and other such works, that preceded the Old Testament and the Jewish Kabala by thousands of years.

The Africans gave us the concept against murder. When the Shipwats at the Temple of Philos, a Greek word, which means Angelica, by the way, of the Goddess Auset, which the Greeks called Isis, and her son Heru, who the Greeks called Horus, and all the gods viewed the murder of Osiris by his brother Seth. A murder that preceded the Cain and Abel murder by thousands of years, beginning on the island of Angelica, continuing at the Temple of the God Horus, continuing further and you see the Virgin Birth and Immaculate Conception. It is here long before you see it in lifestyle, and you can see in life-size the drama that preceded Greece, showing Horus killing his uncle for the revenge of killing his father, showing his uncle symbolically as a hippopotamus.

This continued to the Temple of Osiris in Abydos, where pictures of the Virgin Birth, the Resurrection, showing Osiris' penis perpendicular to his body, being symbolic to the resurrection. When you go there you will see it all over the place. Those of you who have been to Egypt know that life is shown as the penis coming out of Peta's naval, representative of the extension of the umbilical cord, which is the extension of life, the source of life.

The Africa that I have spoken of, you need to know, and no one can keep you a slave after you know it. In America there is a saying that "A mind is a terrible thing to waste." It is said on television all the time by people who call themselves "The United Negro College Fund." You can only waste your mind on that one, and by using the term "negro" it indicates they've got no minds, because I have been looking for a negro, and I haven't found one in umpteen years. Because I'm not a Portuguese, I don't create negroes nor Negroland. I'm an African, and that word we need to deal with as having come from the Greeks. I guess some say it has got good connotations. So I beg of you to always carry a mirror, whether you are a man or a woman, to look at yourself daily. Then you've got to have a good feeling about that face you've got, the texture of hair you've got, and all the fine features you've got. I don't know about you, brothers, but when I look at the face of that African woman, I see heaven!

Buy books by Dr. Yosef Ben-Jochannan 

The African Contribution to Technology and Science


Only thing most whites know about Blacks is slavery, natived representived in american produced movies on africans, drugs and welfare. Whites always depict Blacks in a negative position.
Western civilization would not exis if not of the blacks and native americans who welcome them to share the new world and as history repeats it's self White got greedy and wanted it all and still do. Got to have their noses in every county> if they cannot control it they destroy it.


----------



## 30x90

LilOlLady said:


> 30x90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now that's racist. Mulit races built this country. Blacks contributed 200 years of free labor. White people built it on the backs of Native Americans, Hispanic, Jews, and black, etc. It is the white people who has allowed the importation of poverty. White men, for the time being, is still running this country in to the ground.
> White people, the founding father included, have blood stained hand that will never come clean.
> Cheap illegal alien labor is theft and there was a documentary on showing how this country will end. Can't remember the name of it. We will never recover from what we are experiencing now. It's just the beginning of the end of America.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> White people's achievements and inventions in this country far surpass what negroes ever did.White people founded this country.
> Negro slaves were mostly used as farm animals...and they were living in the stone age in africa before they got captured by their own people and sold around the world as slaves.Actually they were better off in the long run.Ask any negro if he thinks he'd be better off in africa..
> 
> Native americans didn't establish governments or nations or states or laws or any type of formal civilization. The white man did all that.
> They were basically just itinerant tribes moving here and there to keep up with the food.
> 
> Sorry, but there is no "equality" in nature. Nothing is "equal".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Know your history. Africa contributed most of what white peole have stolen from them. Blacks are far more intellient than white.
> Are you proud of civilization white man has created?
Click to expand...


Name all the things negroes invented that were stolen by the white man.

Negroes are most assuredly not more intelligent on average...We've already been over that. The average negro IQ in america is around 80-85.


----------



## 30x90

LilOlLady said:


> The African Contribution to Technology and Science
> by Yosef ben-Jochannan (1986)
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> (A lecture delivered for the Minority Ethnic Unit of the Greater London Council, London, England, March 6&#8211;8, 1986. It was addressed mainly to the African community in London consisting of African people from the Caribbean and African people from Africa.)
> I will first express my appreciation for you having me here, and ask that you meticulously follow my comments, because as you know I'm known to be controversial, and that's an understatement. I'm controversial not because something is wrong with my documentation, but because I challenge Western hegemony.
> 
> Africa, as the label of my talk, cannot be spoken of in terms of Adam and Eve, because long before they had an Adam and Eve there was an Africa and African people, with concepts that predated Abraham. All of the pyramids of Africa, not only those in Egypt, but those in Sudan, and the two in northern Ethiopia (which the British and the Berlin Conference removed and put into southern Sudan), where built thousands of years before there was an Adam and Eve mentioned anywhere on the planet. When you get to the birth of Abraham, at the same time when the Africans along the Nile are already in their thirteenth dynastic period, there is no Adam and Eve, because the Hebrews gave you the concept of Adam and Eve. Most of you believe that it has something to do with facts, rather than theocracy.
> 
> To speak of Africa you would have to revise your concept of the Virgin Mary and understand that it's nothing but a copy of Isis, and her husband God Osiris. You will also have to go to the Nile Valley to the temples there and see that this is thousands of years before Westminster Abbey, and, of course the Vatican in Rome. You can go all over the Nile Valley and elsewhere, and I use the Nile Valley, particularly, in that the oldest records of man are still there in terms of monuments. Of course, there are a lot stolen from Africa here in London, and in Berlin or other such places.
> 
> Your ancestors gave to the world the calendar in 10,000 B.C.E. (Before the common "Christian" Era). That is 8,000 years before Adam and Eve. Your ancestors revised that dating system because of their understanding of the astronomical calculations. It is the science of astronomy that gives the ability to read calendars. Thus 10,000 B.C.E. saw the first calendar. The term is self explanatory, the solar calendar showing the relationship of the moon and the sun, etc. that gives us the basis of the present calendar, with 364 days corrected each year, instead of 365 days corrected each fourth year. And I will say again that there wasn't a single European society in existence at that time. The first European writer, Homer, had not been born yet. And when Homer was born and finally became literate because of the teachings the Africans gave him, he too started to corroborate the evidence your ancestors had by stating that even the gods of Europe, Greece, in particular, which was then called Pyrrhus, came from Ethiopia.
> 
> I'm sure that those of you who have been to college, if not here in England somewhere else, know that I'm quoting from two works of Homer, the Iliad and the Odyssey, which brought Europe and England into civilization. The African we must talk about is the African that caused people to understand science, medicine, law, engineering, etc. It is common at the universities here to deal with science as if the art of medicine came from a Greek named Hippocrates. We don't have Hippocrates until about 333 B.C.E. Yet we don't need any record other than Hippocrates himself to know that what is being taught at the universities here are lies.
> 
> One has to realize that Hippocrates himself, in what is called the Hippocratic Oath, wrote that he had a god named Escalipius, the Greek name for the God Imhotep. Imhotep had died 2500 years before the birth of Hippocrates. Imhotep is the first known multigenius other than the one you call Michelangelo. We don't have Michelangelo until 1609 and he is not known until he does the work of Pope Julius II, who commissioned Michelangelo to paint the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. Michelangelo used his cousin and other relatives as models for some of the biblical characters that he painted. The basis of engineering was created by Imhotep. He created the first stone structure; that building still stands in a place called Sakkara, about less than an hour north-west of what is today called Cairo. And here you will see the Grand Lodge of Djoser at Sakkara. That modern structure was built in the Third Dynasty, since Djoser was the third pharaoh of the Third Dynasty. Imhotep was the man who gave us the little quip, "eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we shall die."
> 
> The FIRST WORLD western university was the University of Jenne of Timbuktu. But as we continue, we realize that in the universities here you use paper to write on, and if it was not for paper the means of communication would not be as it is today. But in Egypt, Sudan and other such places, and I will remind you that Egypt is still in Africa, the Africans reached such a height in engineering that we even turned the Nile in an s-turn to cut down the flow when the inundation period came. That brings us to 2200 B.C. That means at least 1400 years before the first European wrote anything.
> 
> Africa, Mother Africa, as I prefer to call her, understanding that the Greeks called her Africa in about 500&#8211;400 B.C. I'm talking about the time when the first Greeks who had gone to Pyrrus, who had come into Egypt by way of Leba (now called Libya) and established their little villages in a little enclave, they then called Africa long before the continent was partitioned by the colonialists. I am speaking about 11.3 or 11.5 million square miles of land, where first the concept of a God and Goddess Nut is shown as the mother of the sky. Symbolically, the God Geb, the god of the earth, lived in a little chapel in the center of Hathor. The African woman is giving birth even to the sun, in the morning through her vagina and receiving the sun back in the evening through her mouth. This shows the whole rotation of the world, long before the world had a beginning and an end. These Africans along the Nile were to do more of this. They were to give us a God Osiris, where people went yearly to pay pilgrimage long before there was a wailing wall in Palestine or a myth of a Jesus born in Bethlehem, which changed at the Nicene Conference of Bishops, ordered by Constantine and removed from a cave in Ethiopia to a manger in Bethlehem.
> 
> It is Africa that gave birth to Hadzart Bilal ibn Rahab, who taught Mohammed ibn Abdullah, who was illiterate in his own language, not able to read and write. In spite of what your belief system may be, Hadzart Bilal ibn Rahab became the head of the Moslem embassies under Mohammed ibn Abdullah, Omar the Great, and Abu Bakr. I think that we need to know history before we can quote texts in religious scriptures.
> 
> There was a myth of Africa as the home of a people who ate each other and missionaries. I wish we did eat the missionaries, it's never too late! We've got to understand that this Africa we are speaking about even established Europe's greatest universities and first, the University of Salamanca in Spain. The Africa we are speaking about produced the ancestors of the present Queen of England, George III, the German king who spoke no English. We forget that Elizabeth's grandparents and ancestors are related to George III, who was the son of Alexander the Medici, the cardinal of Rome who later became Pope, and an Ethiopian woman by the name of Martha. So I have to say, don't worry too much about it because Elizabeth belongs to the family. The Africa, which you may not know, happened to give birth to Zinjanthropus Boisei by the Africans of Kenya. The Leakey family, Louis and Mary, dated him to 1.7 million years old. Adam is about 4000&#8211;5000 years. The Africa you do not know gave birth also to Lucy in Ethiopia dated 3.2 million years old, they are both in Kenyan and Ethiopian museums. And some of us are still ashamed to be Africans! Some of us pay money to have our nose reshaped, our hair fried and boiled and all sorts of things, because we don't know this Africa; we know the Africa of the slave trade with John Hawkins from London and the other little songs.
> 
> Yes, that is the phase of Africa. Surely, slavery is a phase of lives past, but slavery is a tiny little bit from 640 A.D. with the Arabs, 1506 A.D. with the Europeans to now as against what I'm talking about; it is minuscule by comparison, because if I wished to go back to Africa, not only when we were performing astronomy, engineering in establishing the pyramids and so forth, but when we gave to the world the fundamental moral concept. "I have not killed man or woman." This is a response to the admonishing of the Goddess Maat. You notice that every time we talk about justice and rights we have as African woman representing the scale of justice. The response to the admonishing which would have stated, "You shall not speak ill of your mother and your father; you shall not kill man or woman; you shall not hide a light under a bushel," sounds familiar to you because they said some guy named Moses discovered them thousands of years later on Mount Sinai.
> 
> Yet they said Moses was born in Goshen. This is the Goshen in Egypt according to the Torah or the Old Testament in the Book of Exodus. Moses had to be trained, and if he was born and lived there (for between age one to eighty-five years of age), according to your Bible, then he must have read this, because he was taught in the Grand Lodge. If he went to the lodge at age seven as a young boy, then he did not come out until he was forty-seven, because it took forty years of training to make a priest in all of the disciplines. So then, Moses came as nothing but a copy of the Egyptian priests and Teachings of The Egyptian Mysteries System.
> 
> These same Africans went on to give us the concept of the monotheistic deity. Thus it was that Amenhotep IV, who changed his name to Akhenaton, who gave us the concept of a solitary god by the name of Aten. Akhenaton died long before the birth of Moses. Is it possible for you to come to England, go to kindergarten here, go to elementary school, college, do post-doctoral work and never hear of the English national anthem, the Magna Carta, or Queen Anne's stature? Is it possible, just as it was for Moses to be born in Egypt, a soul brother, because his first wife was Deborah, according to the Bible, and had never heard of Akhenaton.
> 
> And it is said that when Moses was running away from the Pharaoh for committing murder (before he got the rod of Mount Sinai), and his brother Aaron was charged for stealing from the Pharaoh's treasury, he met Deborah. It would seem to be that Deborah said, "That Egyptian," pointing to Moses; there was nothing in Moses to tell that he was Jewish; he was not wearing any special clothes; he looked like any other soul brother you can find in London, the Caribbean, Nigeria, Ethiopia, Ghana, the South Pacific. And then you say you are the minority! You are members of the third world. I am not a member of the third world, I am a member of the first world.
> 
> When one of the first of the so-called philosophers came to Egypt, we see him before 640 B.C.E. When he was supposed to have released his philosophical thinking, he is in Egypt. From Socrates down to Aristotle, the so-called post-Socratian philosopher, every one of them spent several years in Egypt and of course the only one who couldn't come since he was the creation of Plato's mind, was Socrates. And even he (Socrates) was supposed to have taken the hemlock for teaching African philosophy: "Socrates is an evil doer" was part of the charge against him. Plato had to run (and all the others) for teaching this philosophy. Would you have to run from England for teaching English history? Neither would the Greek government persecute the Greek philosophers for teaching Greek philosophy. It was somebody's Philosophy they were teaching, and where did they go to school to know whose philosophy?
> 
> It is not until the Persians in 525 B.C.E. allowed them in, and it was not until 323 B.C.E. at the death of Alexander, the son of Philip of Macedonia, that Aristotle was allowed by General Soter (who changed his name to Ptolemy I) to have Tusak to bring those works down, that the Greeks had access to Egyptian works. Those who could study in Egypt for themselves did so, while some were sent over to Greece where they established what they called the Peripatetic schools in what later was called Alexandria, out of African materials.
> 
> Is that the Africa you know? It couldn't be, otherwise you couldn't be praising your masters; you would be going back to your educational past and be your own master, at least if not physically, mentally. It is difficult, because colonialism brings to us a kind of history written by the conqueror for the conquered to read and enjoy. When the conquered looks around and finds that even God speaks from the heart of the conqueror, the conquered then becomes suspicious of God. What is God's interest in all of this? It is not the African who said in the Songs of Solomon, Chapter 1, Verses 1&#8211;9, and when you get to 8 and 9, it says, "Ye daughters of Canaan look not upon me because I am black, because I'm beautiful. My mother put me in the vineyard, but my sister, she kept indoors." That is why the Queen of Sheba turned black. I thought it was because her mother and father were black! But even in the Bible you find lies, racism and all that. As if we didn't have Bibles. We have "The Book of the Dead" which was changed right here in London from its original name in 1895 at the British Museum. It was called "The Book of Coming Forth By Day and Night." We have the "Book of the Divines," "The Book of Judgment," "The Heart of Judgment," and other such works, that preceded the Old Testament and the Jewish Kabala by thousands of years.
> 
> The Africans gave us the concept against murder. When the Shipwats at the Temple of Philos, a Greek word, which means Angelica, by the way, of the Goddess Auset, which the Greeks called Isis, and her son Heru, who the Greeks called Horus, and all the gods viewed the murder of Osiris by his brother Seth. A murder that preceded the Cain and Abel murder by thousands of years, beginning on the island of Angelica, continuing at the Temple of the God Horus, continuing further and you see the Virgin Birth and Immaculate Conception. It is here long before you see it in lifestyle, and you can see in life-size the drama that preceded Greece, showing Horus killing his uncle for the revenge of killing his father, showing his uncle symbolically as a hippopotamus.
> 
> This continued to the Temple of Osiris in Abydos, where pictures of the Virgin Birth, the Resurrection, showing Osiris' penis perpendicular to his body, being symbolic to the resurrection. When you go there you will see it all over the place. Those of you who have been to Egypt know that life is shown as the penis coming out of Peta's naval, representative of the extension of the umbilical cord, which is the extension of life, the source of life.
> 
> The Africa that I have spoken of, you need to know, and no one can keep you a slave after you know it. In America there is a saying that "A mind is a terrible thing to waste." It is said on television all the time by people who call themselves "The United Negro College Fund." You can only waste your mind on that one, and by using the term "negro" it indicates they've got no minds, because I have been looking for a negro, and I haven't found one in umpteen years. Because I'm not a Portuguese, I don't create negroes nor Negroland. I'm an African, and that word we need to deal with as having come from the Greeks. I guess some say it has got good connotations. So I beg of you to always carry a mirror, whether you are a man or a woman, to look at yourself daily. Then you've got to have a good feeling about that face you've got, the texture of hair you've got, and all the fine features you've got. I don't know about you, brothers, but when I look at the face of that African woman, I see heaven!
> 
> Buy books by Dr. Yosef Ben-Jochannan
> 
> The African Contribution to Technology and Science
> 
> 
> Only thing most whites know about Blacks is slavery, natived representived in american produced movies on africans, drugs and welfare. Whites always depict Blacks in a negative position.
> Western civilization would not exis if not of the blacks and native americans who welcome them to share the new world and as history repeats it's self White got greedy and wanted it all and still do. Got to have their noses in every county> if they cannot control it they destroy it.



Afro centrist gibberish. 
Here's the reality...White people created "western civilization". 

A short one hundred years ago, the sun never set on the empires of our people. At that time we had brought forth the finest music, explored to the uttermost ends of the earth, pioneered care of the environment and kindness to animals, made the most startling discoveries, created the greatest inventions, wrote the most profound literature, established colonies in foreign lands that &#8212; despite contemporary assertion &#8212; improved the lot of the indigenous peoples, and began unlocking the very secrets of Nature Herself.

Yes, from us have come the most gifted intellects the world has ever seen:Caesar, Pythagoras, Dickens, Bach, Alexander, Da Vinci, Pasteur, Newton, Edison, Gutenberg, Mannerheim, Twain, Washington, Goethe, Lee, Ericsson, Ford, Beethoven, Nietzsche, Franklin, Von Braun, Socrates, London, Rembrandt, Kipling, Lindbergh, Dante, Shakespeare, Bell, Napoleon, Magellan, Amundsen, Mozart, Plato, Wagner, Copernicus and Galileo, (ahem) to name a few. 

Name some inventions by negroes. Just pick the first 10 that come to mind.....no FIVE..give me 5 if you can.


----------



## Mr. Peepers

> Not really about race, but about importing poverty.



AND you can thank some of the biggest corporations in this country for that.  Thank big Agra and the meat monopolies, everyone!!!  The majority of their workforce is illegal labor. Did you know they broadcast job openings for illegals in Mexico, Latin and South America?  They do.  Did you know that they physically bus workers in?  Did you?  Maybe you should take it up with them.


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## Mr. Peepers

1.  The cotton gin
2.  Peanut butter
3.  The Jenny Coupler
4.  Pre-cursor to the street sweeper
5.  Potato chips
6.  Blood/plasm separation
7.  The Super Soaker
8.  The egg-beater
9.  Gas Masks
10. Automatic traffic signals


----------



## Angelhair

'Know your history. Africa contributed most of what white peole have stolen from them. Blacks are far more intellient than white.  Are you proud of civilization white man has created?'

_I know I AM - as I have yet to see a country which is run by blacks AND latinos and that have prospered and progressed!!!  They all live in misery plus extreme poverty.  Another red flag that whites have created great countries is seeing so many fleeing from countries run by these two races to countries run and founded by WHITES!!!!  So go smoke that one._


----------



## 30x90

Mr. Peepers said:


> 1.  The cotton gin
> 2.  Peanut butter
> 3.  The Jenny Coupler
> 4.  Pre-cursor to the street sweeper
> 5.  Potato chips
> 6.  Blood/plasm separation
> 7.  The Super Soaker
> 8.  The egg-beater
> 9.  Gas Masks
> 10. Automatic traffic signals



LMFAO...where did you get all that bullshit. You need to read more and type less.Here, let me educate you;

1.Well, hell..Eli Whitney was a white man.

2.G.W. Carver invented peanut butter?..Is that the lie you're perpetrating now?

Wrong again, my boy.
    George Washington Carver 1864-1943 ( began his peanut research in 1903).

    Peanuts, which are native to the New World tropics, were mashed into paste by Aztecs hundreds of years ago. Evidence of modern peanut butter comes from US patent #306727 issued to Marcellus Gilmore Edson of Montreal, Quebec in 1884, for a process of milling roasted peanuts between heated surfaces until the peanuts reached "a fluid or semi-fluid state." As the product cooled, it set into what Edson described as "a consistency like that of butter, lard, or ointment." In 1890, George A. Bayle Jr., owner of a food business in St. Louis, manufactured peanut butter and sold it out of barrels. J.H. Kellogg, of cereal fame, secured US patent #580787 in 1897 for his "Process of Preparing Nutmeal," which produced a "pasty adhesive substance" that Kellogg called "nut-butter."


3. Are you implying that the negro Andrew Beard invented the "Jenny [sic] coupler" in 1897? 
you're wrong..
The Janney coupler is named for US Civil War veteran Eli H. Janney, who in 1873 invented a device (US patent #138405) which automatically linked together two railroad cars upon their being brought into contact. Also known as the "knuckle coupler," Janney's invention superseded the dangerous link-and-pin coupler and became the basis for standard coupler design through the remainder of the millennium. 
Andrew Beard's modified knuckle coupler was just one of approximately eight thousand coupler variations patented by 1900. See a history of the automatic coupler and also The Janney Coupler.

4.Charles Brooks in 1896? Is that your claim?

Brooks' patent was for a modified version of a common type of street sweeper cart that had long been known, with a rotary brush that swept refuse onto an elevator belt and into a trash bin. In the United States, street sweepers started being patented in the 1840s, and by 1900 the Patent Office had issued about 300 patents for such machines.

5.Potato chips, huh? Well, there's no evidence to argue about.
If you want to believe that *IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF PLANET EARTH NO ONE EVER THOUGHT ABOUT CUTTING POTATOES INTO SLICES AND FRYING THEM*....no one else ever did it...some negro somewhere was the first EVER ...ok...sure..whatever you say...LMFAO...

6.Did Charles Drew "discover" (around 1940) that plasma could be separated and stored apart from the rest of the blood, thereby revolutionizing transfusion medicine? Hell no.

The possibility of using blood plasma for transfusion purposes was known at least since 1918, when English physician Gordon R. Ward suggested it in a medical journal. In the mid-1930s, John Elliott advanced the idea, emphasizing plasma's advantages in shelf life and donor-recipient compatibility, and in 1939 he and two colleagues reported having used stored plasma in 191 transfusions. (See historical notes on plasma use.) Charles Drew was not responsible for any breakthrough scientific or medical discovery; his main career achievement lay in supervising or co-supervising major programs for the collection and shipment of blood and plasma.

7.Super Soaker?..I don't know for sure what that is?..Is it a big water gun?
A negro "invented" the water gun?
C'mon man.. get serious.

8.Willie Johnson in 1884? Nope.

The hand-cranked egg beater with two intermeshed, counter-rotating whisks was invented by Turner Williams of Providence, Rhode Island in 1870 (US Patent #103811). It was an improvement on earlier rotary egg beaters that had only one whisk. 

9.Garrett Morgan in 1914? Nope.

The invention of the gas mask predates Morgan's breathing device by several decades. Early versions were constructed by the Scottish chemist John Stenhouse in 1854 and the physicist John Tyndall in the 1870s, among many other inventors prior to World War I. 

10.Invented by Garrett A. Morgan in 1923? hahahahahaha...too funny!

The first known traffic signal appeared in London in 1868 near the Houses of Parliament. Designed by JP Knight, it featured two semaphore arms and two gas lamps. The earliest electric traffic lights include Lester Wire's two-color version set up in Salt Lake City circa 1912, James Hoge's system (US patent #1,251,666) installed in Cleveland by the American Traffic Signal Company in 1914, and William Potts' 4-way red-yellow-green lights introduced in Detroit beginning in 1920. New York City traffic towers began flashing three-color signals also in 1920.

Garrett Morgan's cross-shaped, crank-operated semaphore was not among the first half-hundred patented traffic signals, nor was it "automatic" as is sometimes claimed, nor did it play any part in the evolution of the modern traffic light.


All this afro centrist revisionist bullshit...who teaches people these lies about negroes "inventing" shit that they had NOTHING TO DO WITH?..
Amazing.


----------



## FactFinder

*"American as we know it; Gone"*

Let's see. I am 58 years old and America as I know it has changed constantly since I was a tot old enough to start having reasoning ability. What America point in time are we talking about here?


----------



## FactFinder

"*'Know your history. Africa contributed most of what white peole have stolen from them. Blacks are far more intellient than white. Are you proud of civilization white man has created?'
*"

Oh jeez....what the hell is this?


----------



## Angelhair

_Let's call a spade a spade here - America is what it is because of whites.  Yes, many other races have contributed but NOT as much as whites have.  Why is it so hard to admit that????  I have seen more bashing on whites in the past few years than I have in my lifetime.  What the hell is going on???  Is this what is meant by reverse racism????  It seems that many minorities have a very hard time accepting the history of the USA.  They either lie about it or want to change it to meet their 'needs'.  Foolish!_


----------



## gekaap

Angelhair said:


> _Let's call a spade a spade here - America is what it is because of whites.  Yes, many other races have contributed but NOT as much as whites have.  Why is it so hard to admit that????_


_

First of all, because it's not true.  How much do you think was contributed to this country by black slaves?  The reason America was ever able to sustain itself was because it had a strong economy built on illegally obtained tobacco crop.  How many white people do you think were working to harvest crops on tobacco plantations?  The various contributions to our country are not based on race.  Many people, of various socio-economic backgrounds all provided vital contributions to the US.




			I have seen more bashing on whites in the past few years than I have in my lifetime.  What the hell is going on???  Is this what is meant by reverse racism???
		
Click to expand...


Yes, it is reverse racism.  However, there is no substantial difference in how much it occurs presently, to a few years ago.  It has been a problem for about two decades.  However, it does not justify dismissing the contributions of various people to our country, of any claim of one race being more important than another.  Doing so is, itself, merely a reverse-reverse racism.




			It seems that many minorities have a very hard time accepting the history of the USA.  They either lie about it or want to change it to meet their 'needs'.  Foolish!
		
Click to expand...


I have never seen any substantial effort by any person or group to lie or change our history for the sake of elevating minorities.  Some people may emphasize various aspects, or have different interpretations, but that is not an attempt to lie or change the history.  However, your own statements betray an ignorance about our history.  Whether it is an intentional or accidental ignorance remains to be seen._


----------



## Tank

If blacks and hispanics were worth a shit, the countrys they came from would show it


----------



## Toome

Mexico is a country with very strong traditions, values and cultural customs.  I truly don't see Islam taking root; and radical Islam stands a snowball's chance in hell.  Not saying that Mexicans are devout Catholics; however, the Catholic religion is very much a strong part of Mexican culture.

But some of you are determined to believe what you will.

I see the likelihood of the streets of Juarez being littered with bodies of radical Muslims than some iman successfully converting enough souls to carry out some fatwah.


----------



## Jackson

LilOlLady said:


> *Forget federal government, we'll build fence ourselves!
> Plan makes illegal immigrants pay for states to secure U.S. border*January 30, 2011
> By Drew Zahn
> © 2011 WorldNetDaily
> 
> Mississippi State Sen. Joey Fillingane
> 
> A Mississippi legislator has caught on to an idea that if the federal government won't complete a border fence separating the United States from Mexico, the states will &#8211; and he's planning on* taxing illegal immigrants to fund it*.
> 
> Republican State Sen. Joey Fillingane has filed S.B. 2255, which would *charge a fee on all money transfers wired out of the United States*, then count the amount as a credit on Mississippi citizens' tax returns. The result: Only illegal immigrants sending money abroad would ultimately pay the fees, since they cannot file tax returns to receive a refund.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: Forget federal government, we'll build fence ourselves! Forget federal government, we'll build fence ourselves!



LilolLady, I think that is a marvelous idea!  If that would catch on with the lower 48, and make that charge a reasonable amount, say $100.00, maybe we could see a wall in a reasonable time!  Darn Feds!


----------



## Angelhair

_Go , go, go Mississippi!!!  If CA built a fence in San Diego, why not Mississippi????  _

Q&A: Building a Barrier Along the Border with Mexico

One of the most controversial proposals in the debate about immigration would create a high-tech fence along one-third of the U.S. border with Mexico. Approved by the House in December, the barrier is modeled on an existing 14-mile fence between San Diego, Calif., and Tijuana, Mexico. Supporters say the fencing would bolster homeland security and curb illegal immigration. Opponents decry it as a new "Berlin Wall," antithetical to the American ideal of an open society, and the plan has sparked protests by Hispanic immigrants across the country. NPR's Ted Robbins helps explain the proposal and existing strategies.

Related NPR Stories
San Diego Fence Provides Lessons in Border Control

April 6, 2006
 Q: How long has the San Diego/Tijuana border fence been in the works? 

The fence has been under construction since 1993. Lawsuits and environmental regulations have stalled completion of the final 3.5 miles, which go through a tidal estuary next to the Pacific Ocean. Last fall, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff used his authority to waive some legal requirements that were bogging down the process. 

The government says that about $39 million has been spent on the project so far, though some critics think that's a conservative figure. The Department of Homeland Security expects to spend an additional $35 million to finish the last leg of the fence. The Border Patrol, though, says the cost could be higher. 

Q: What kind of security measures does it employ?

The 14-mile project is actually a double- and triple-fence. The first fence was built with surplus military airplane landing mats that were welded together. The second fence is called Sandia fencing, because it was developed at the government's Sandia National Laboratories. It's steel mesh, 15 feet high, with the top part slanted inward. In high-traffic areas, there's a third chain-link fence topped with barbed wire. In between the first two fences is a 150-foot "no man's land." The Border Patrol uses that area to station vehicles. There are also light towers, and remote video-surveillance cameras are being installed even as I write. Security is augmented by helicopters and hundreds of ground-based Border Patrol agents. 

Some areas use closely spaced concrete pillars instead of steel mesh for the second fence. And the last 150 yards or so &#8212; leading into the sea &#8212; is made of steel pillars sunk into the sand. 

Q&A: Building a Barrier Along the Border with Mexico : NPR


----------



## 30x90

gekaap said:


> Angelhair said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Let's call a spade a spade here - America is what it is because of whites.  Yes, many other races have contributed but NOT as much as whites have.  Why is it so hard to admit that????_
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> First of all, because it's not true.  How much do you think was contributed to this country by black slaves?  The reason America was ever able to sustain itself was because it had a strong economy built on illegally obtained tobacco crop.  How many white people do you think were working to harvest crops on tobacco plantations?  The various contributions to our country are not based on race.  Many people, of various socio-economic backgrounds all provided vital contributions to the US.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have seen more bashing on whites in the past few years than I have in my lifetime.  What the hell is going on???  Is this what is meant by reverse racism???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it is reverse racism.  However, there is no substantial difference in how much it occurs presently, to a few years ago.  It has been a problem for about two decades.  However, it does not justify dismissing the contributions of various people to our country, of any claim of one race being more important than another.  Doing so is, itself, merely a reverse-reverse racism._
Click to expand...

_






Tobacco?..wrong. The main crop in the south wasn't tobacco.

Here are some more facts

75% of white Southern families didn't own any slaves.
Half of all slave owners owned between 1 and 5
Fewer than 1% of of slave owners owned more than 50
Not all negroes in the South were slaves. 10% of negroes in the upper South were free and made their living as laborers or craftsmen.

Lots of free negroes owned slaves.
Ironic, isn't it? Slaves were captured by their own black countrymen, sold to white people, transported across the ocean, earned their freedom and promptly turned around and bought slaves...That's almost FUNNY!  if it weren't so pathetic...


Black Slave Owners Civil War Article by Robert M Grooms
In an 1856 letter to his wife Mary Custis Lee, Robert E. Lee called slavery "a moral and political evil." Yet he concluded that black slaves were immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially and physically.

*The fact is large numbers of free Negroes owned black slaves; in fact, in numbers disproportionate to their representation in society at large. 
In 1860 only a small minority of whites owned slaves. 
According to the U.S. census report for that last year before the Civil War, there were nearly 27 million whites in the country. Some eight million of them lived in the slaveholding states.

The census also determined that there were fewer than 385,000 individuals who owned slaves (1). Even if all slaveholders had been white, that would amount to only 1.4 percent of whites in the country (or 4.8 percent of southern whites owning one or more slaves).

According to federal census reports, on June 1, 1860 there were nearly 4.5 million Negroes in the United States, with fewer than four million of them living in the southern slaveholding states. Of the blacks residing in the South, 261,988 were not slaves. Of this number, 10,689 lived in New Orleans. The country's leading African American historian, Duke University professor John Hope Franklin, records that in New Orleans over 3,000 free Negroes owned slaves, or 28 percent of the free Negroes in that city.

In 1860 there were at least six Negroes in Louisiana who owned 65 or more slaves The largest number, 152 slaves, were owned by the widow C. Richards and her son P.C. Richards, who owned a large sugar cane plantation. Another Negro slave magnate in Louisiana, with over 100 slaves, was Antoine Dubuclet, a sugar planter whose estate was valued at (in 1860 dollars) $264,000 (3). That year, the mean wealth of southern white men was $3,978 (4).

In Charleston, South Carolina in 1860 125 free Negroes owned slaves; six of them owning 10 or more. Of the $1.5 million in taxable property owned by free Negroes in Charleston, more than $300,000 represented slave holdings (5). In North Carolina 69 free Negroes were slave owners (6).

According to the 1850 U.S. Census- Slave Schedule of Sumter County, South Carolina, William Ellison was listed as a black man with thirty-seven slaves, twenty-seven males and ten females. In a letter to his son Henry, dated March 26, 1857, Ellison wrote giving him instructions on managing several of the gin shop customer accounts.  One can conclude that business was going so well, that William&#8217;s son help was needed to keep up with the accounting (Ellison&#8217;s papers).

 By 1860 William owned, not only his gin shop, but also a large cotton plantation and more than 60 slaves (Lemelson Center, 2008, see &#8220;Student Activity Packet, Activity #2: Fixing a Gin: Math and History at Your Desk&#8221. He was South Carolina&#8217;s largest black slave owner.  In the entire state, only five percent of the people owned as much land as William (Ellison Family Graveyard, 2009)*


Actually slaves were just farm animals, that's their main contribution.
Field work...and with the industrial revolution and the invention of the cotton gin just around the corner, they would have become obsolete and too expensive to keep and would have been freed shortly as there was no more point in having them... Since they were expensive to buy and keep..One would want to keep them in the best condition possible.
Contrary to all the "Roots" myths, they weren't widely mistreated and more than a farmer would mistreat his best horse.



			
				geekap said:
			
		


			I have never seen any substantial effort by any person or group to lie or change our history for the sake of elevating minorities.  Some people may emphasize various aspects, or have different interpretations, but that is not an attempt to lie or change the history.  However, your own statements betray an ignorance about our history.  Whether it is an intentional or accidental ignorance remains to be seen.
		
Click to expand...


Well, that nonsense that was posted above about all those inventions negroes were supposed to have created...Did you see that?Check it out...a couple of posts back. Post # 39. See it?
Those were ALL lies.
Check out post #41 for proof._


----------



## gekaap

The importance of tobacco is that it is what allowed colonization to become viable.  Without it as a source of income, the first colonies would have never gotten of the ground.  Tobacco plantations required heavy usage of slave labor.

A single comment by a single uninformed person is not meaningful to the overall state of historic knowledge.  However, I find it an extremely flawed position to challenge anyone to name 10 inventions by a black person.  I would challenge people to pick any 10 items for which they can name the inventor off the top of their head, and without doing a google search.  I would even go farther to rule out any invention by Thomas Edison, since his fingerprints can be found almost everywhere.

I also find it flawed to even think of the question in terms of how many such and such were invented by black people, or how many songs were composed by black people.  Considering the fact that black people were oppresses and forbade from being educated all in the hopes that they would never gain the opportunity to have such impacts on the development of the world, looking back now and noting that there are little to no such examples of blacks contributing to such things is circular reasoning.  Finally, I find the notion that the "best" music and/or art, or comparable claims, have come from European sources is, well, Euro-centric.  I'm sure that there are a great many Japanese who would consider that the "best" contributions to the arts over human history came from Asia.  I'm sure that there are many people in the USA who might feel that the "best" contributions to art in human history came from early 20th century jazz (and I, for one, would find it difficult to argue with anyone making such a claim).


----------



## Ravi

LilOlLady said:


> *Census estimates show big gains for US minorities*
> 2010  .By HOPE YEN,
> Associated Press
> 
> WASHINGTON  U.S. racial minorities accounted for roughly* 85 percent of the nation's population growth* over the last decade  one of the largest shares ever  with *Hispanics accounting for much of the gain in many of the states picking up new House seats*.
> 
> Preliminary census estimates also suggest the number of multiracial Americans jumped roughly 20 percent since 2000, to over 5 million.
> 
> 
> Census estimates show big gains for US minorities - Yahoo! News
> 
> Not really about race, but about importing poverty.


OH THE HORROR!!! Brown and yellow toned Americans. What has become of our great white nation???


----------



## Tank

Ravi said:


> What has become of our great white nation???


It is sinking into the third world.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *gekaap*
> Hello.....Hello....Anyone home? That's the point, Mexico refuses to take any responsibility for its own citizens. It just wants to dump the trash on our doorsteps. Stop begging the question.



I asked twice for international laws or at least border agreements clearly stating that Mexico, America or any other country in the world is under any obligation to help solve problems outside of their borders and all I got from gekaap was deflections and evasive statements.

Why on Earth he consistently fails to present these legal documents that would effectively end the debate?

Because there is none!! Because Mexico is under no legal obligation to solve America's problems with illegal mexicans just like America have no obligation to do anything to diminish the number of illegal american weapons in Mexico.

Gekaap is now reduced to what he really is:

Just another drooling, fanatic patriot who wishes to strongarm a neighboring country to do part of the job that belongs *EXCLUSIVELY* to the US immigration service.

This kind of patriotic bozos with massive bias against Mexico are a dime a dozen on this Board and don't even deserve to be addressed seriously *due to their total inability to back up their claims*.


----------



## 30x90

gekaap said:


> The importance of tobacco is that it is what allowed colonization to become viable.  Without it as a source of income, the first colonies would have never gotten of the ground.  Tobacco plantations required heavy usage of slave labor.


Oh for pete's sake...the colonists didn't bring any slaves over with them from england. C'mon man. geez...
There were indentured servants..WHITE people..and in 1619 the first slaves were brought by the dutch, I think, right?
Yours was the first reference to the colonies..I think someone had mentioned the war between the states in a prior reference to slavery.
Maybe I misunderstood...



			
				gekaap said:
			
		

> A single comment by a single uninformed person is not meaningful to the overall state of historic knowledge.  However, I find it an extremely flawed position to challenge anyone to name 10 inventions by a black person.  I would challenge people to pick any 10 items for which they can name the inventor off the top of their head, and without doing a google search.  I would even go farther to rule out any invention by Thomas Edison, since his fingerprints can be found almost everywhere.



I agree partially. The U.S. Patent Office pretty much has the last word, though.
 Haven't you been following the thread? 
In post # 10 lilOLady put forth the proposition that negroes built this country.
Crazy, huh?...



			
				gekaap said:
			
		

> I also find it flawed to even think of the question in terms of how many such and such were invented by black people, or how many songs were composed by black people.  Considering the fact that black people were oppresses and forbade from being educated all in the hopes that they would never gain the opportunity to have such impacts on the development of the world, looking back now and noting that there are little to no such examples of blacks contributing to such things is circular reasoning.


Well, I agree partially. See, lilOlLady went on to say in post #34 that negroes built western civilization!..Now that's really crazy. 
If they were so backward, they couldn't have done all those things, right?

Then Mr. Peepers named 10 things that he claimed negroes invented, which were then proven that at least 9 of them were false! They weren't invented by negroes! Again I refer you to the U.S. Patent Office for the dates and inventors. Unless they're all racists, too...I hadn't considered that...
So much confusion and misinformation in this thread...



			
				gekaap said:
			
		

> Finally, I find the notion that the "best" music and/or art, or comparable claims, have come from European sources is, well, Euro-centric.  I'm sure that there are a great many Japanese who would consider that the "best" contributions to the arts over human history came from Asia.  I'm sure that there are many people in the USA who might feel that the "best" contributions to art in human history came from early 20th century jazz (and I, for one, would find it difficult to argue with anyone making such a claim).



There is no such thing as the "best" music but there are composers and artists recognized worldwide by all cultures as the standard of their genre.


----------



## gekaap

José;3290332 said:
			
		

> I asked twice for international laws or at least border agreements clearly stating that Mexico, America or any other country in the world is under any obligation to help solve problems outside of their borders and all I got from gekaap was deflections and evasive statements.



Because you are question begging.  I've already said that the issue is not about any international law as you so claim, the problem is that MEXICO WILL NOT TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT IT OWES ITS CITIZENS, AND WANTS FOR US TO PROVIDE FOR ITS CITIZENS INSTEAD.  You are using Mexico's lack of responsibility as an excuse for being irresponsible.  If Mexico were a true ally of the US, they would take responsibility and do the neighborly thing, which is to keep their cats out of our garden.

You keep talking about each country having a responsibility to take care if its side of the border.  Why, then, do you object to the US increasing border security and immigration law enforcement?  Why, then, do you support Mexico constantly interfering with every attempt the US makes to enact tougher immigration laws, or step up enforcement of current policy?



> Because there is none!! Because Mexico is under no legal obligation to solve America's problems with illegal mexicans just like America have no obligation to do anything to diminish the number of illegal american weapons in Mexico.



And again, I never said it was under any legal obligation.  I said it was under a moral obligation.  Your straw many fails, now get over it and address the real issues instead of trying to criticize people for not addressing the false issues you make up.  Mexico has illegal American weapons because MEXICO'S CITIZENS bring them into Mexico.  The US has firm laws regarding arms sales, and neither the people nor the government have any support for arms sales to Mexicans for illegal use in that country.  This is unlike Mexico's government and social policy to be proponents of illegal immigration from Mexico to the US.  Now that that irrelevant tanget is address, back to the issues at hand.  Oh, and don't ever try to accuse me of deflection after that attempt you've just made.



> Gekaap is now reduced to what he really is:
> 
> Just another drooling, fanatic patriot who wishes to strongarm a neighboring country to do part of the job that belongs *EXCLUSIVELY* to the US immigration service.



What I'm "reduced" to is an American citizen who wishes that my country's immigration policies were stronger, and who is tired of hearing about how the poor Mexicans are being somehow treated badly because they're not being welcomed in with open arms.  I support America having stronger immigration laws, and I have explicit reasons for supporting it.  According to you, it is the US's fault that there is an illegal immigration problem here because we have failed to have strong enough laws, or strong enough enforcement.  If that is true, then on what basis can you object to anything I'm saying?  I'm calling for exactly what you claim is necessary and proper.



> This kind of patriotic bozos with massive bias against Mexico are a dime a dozen on this Board and don't even deserve to be addressed seriously *due to their total inability to back up their claims*.



If you think I'm some kind patriotically drunken member of the US citizenry, you're sadly mistaken.  I am often very critical of my own country, and I don't even believe in "patriotism" because it is, in my opinion, nothing more than a socialized form of arrogance.  You claim that I have some kind of bias against Mexico.  Even if that were true, it is completely irrelevant.  As I've said all along, this is a matter of America having the right to enact strong immigration laws and to follow through with firm enforcement.  You claim that US immigration woes are the fault of the US for not having strong enough laws and not having strong enough enforcement.  Okay then, we should be in agreement that the US needs stronger laws and more enforcement.  However, you apparently feel the opposite.  Because the US has an immigration problem allegedly due to too weak laws and too little enforcement, the US now has a responsibility to allow the problem to fester and grow.  That is absurdity.  So it is you who has been reduced in all of this; to the ranting and blathering imbecile you are, contradicting yourself, denying the conclusions of your own arguments, and demanding outcomes based on nothing more than overly emotional tirades.


----------



## gekaap

Yes, I've followed the thread.  Some of my comments, I suppose, were not directed at you specifically, but at some of the arguments that are being made in general.  The meat and potatoes of what I have been trying to say is that saying that white people created our country and/or our culture is very ethno-centric.  There are a great many ways that people have contributed to the creation of our country and our culture.  Some have been positive contributions, some negative.  They cannot be measured quantitatively, and to only focus on certain areas indicates a narrow view.  One could focus exclusively on the vital function that slave labor contributed to making the colonies economically sound, and conclude that black people were the greatest contributors to our country.  But that would not take in an appreciation for the overall picture.  Likewise, focusing only on something like invention history, also fails to take into consideration the overall picture.  Also, any special focus on European accomplishments in the arts will ultimately produce a Eurocentric conclusion.  After all, what would the western world look like without the printing press, gun powder, or chess?


----------



## william the wie

gekaap said:


> Yes, I've followed the thread.  Some of my comments, I suppose, were not directed at you specifically, but at some of the arguments that are being made in general.  The meat and potatoes of what I have been trying to say is that saying that white people created our country and/or our culture is very ethno-centric.  There are a great many ways that people have contributed to the creation of our country and our culture.  Some have been positive contributions, some negative.  They cannot be measured quantitatively, and to only focus on certain areas indicates a narrow view.  One could focus exclusively on the vital function that slave labor contributed to making the colonies economically sound, and conclude that black people were the greatest contributors to our country.  But that would not take in an appreciation for the overall picture.  Likewise, focusing only on something like invention history, also fails to take into consideration the overall picture.  Also, any special focus on European accomplishments in the arts will ultimately produce a Eurocentric conclusion.  After all, what would the western world look like without the printing press, gun powder, or chess?


Gun powder was invented in India, printing in China and chess in Persia, was that your point? But what I have trouble figuring out is that with all of the interracial marriage now and in the past where do all the neat racial categories come from and do they even make sense any more? By any reasonable standard Tiger Woods is an East Asian yet he is referred to as black. Could we have some definitions of what we are talking about?


----------



## 30x90

william the wie said:


> gekaap said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I've followed the thread.  Some of my comments, I suppose, were not directed at you specifically, but at some of the arguments that are being made in general.  The meat and potatoes of what I have been trying to say is that saying that white people created our country and/or our culture is very ethno-centric.  There are a great many ways that people have contributed to the creation of our country and our culture.  Some have been positive contributions, some negative.  They cannot be measured quantitatively, and to only focus on certain areas indicates a narrow view.  One could focus exclusively on the vital function that slave labor contributed to making the colonies economically sound, and conclude that black people were the greatest contributors to our country.  But that would not take in an appreciation for the overall picture.  Likewise, focusing only on something like invention history, also fails to take into consideration the overall picture.  Also, any special focus on European accomplishments in the arts will ultimately produce a Eurocentric conclusion.  After all, what would the western world look like without the printing press, gun powder, or chess?
> 
> 
> 
> Gun powder was invented in India, printing in China and chess in Persia, was that your point? But what I have trouble figuring out is that with all of the interracial marriage now and in the past where do all the neat racial categories come from and do they even make sense any more? By any reasonable standard Tiger Woods is an East Asian yet he is referred to as black. Could we have some definitions of what we are talking about?
Click to expand...


I'm not his lawyer, but I THINK his point was that those things; chess, gunpowder, and printing, contributed to the overall improvement of civilization (Well, maybe not gunpowder)...and the western world.

I could be wrong.


----------



## whitehall

Nothing wrong with minorities as long as they enter the Country legally. The left wing revolutionaries are counting on "America as we know it...gone". Thats why they advocate open borders.


----------



## uscitizen

Tank said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> What has become of our great white nation???
> 
> 
> 
> It is sinking into the third world.
Click to expand...


We only have one world and we need to learn to get along better.


----------



## gekaap

30x90 said:


> I'm not his lawyer, but I THINK his point was that those things; chess, gunpowder, and printing, contributed to the overall improvement of civilization (Well, maybe not gunpowder)...and the western world.
> 
> I could be wrong.



More or less.  Though I'm not sure that I would say improvement so much as that those things have all, for better or worse, been contributions to making western civilization what it is.  Would the USA, as it is, been possible without gun powder?  It certainly would have been much more difficult to steal away the lands of Native American tribes.


----------



## MikeK

Truthmatters said:


> what a racist thing to say


It seems she has reported a statistical fact which you refer to as "racist."  So I would like to know your definition of the word, "racist," and how it applies to the quoted report.    

Please don't consider this request to be smart-ass sarcasm because it isn't.  I simply believe the words _racist_ and _racism_ are over-used, often misused and widely misunderstood.


----------



## gekaap

william the wie said:


> By any reasonable standard Tiger Woods is an East Asian yet he is referred to as black. Could we have some definitions of what we are talking about?



Tiger Woods, by any "reasonable" standard is a mutt.  He has Native American, Chinese, African American, Dutch, and Thai ancestry.  According to their wiki pages, Woods' father was 3/4 African American, and his mother was Thai, Chinese, and Dutch.  So it would seem that the African American part is the largest single component of his ancestry.   While I agree that inter marrying does make it unrealistic for many people to claim a single ethnicity as the entirety of their ancestry, that does not mean that people cannot have predominant components to their ancestry.  My own ancestry includes Native Caribbean and African ancestry.  But the majority component of my ethnicity is Hispanic.  Even the most "pure" specimens of any ethnicity are blends of other proto-ethnicities.  Ethnicity evolves over time like anything else.


----------



## Tank

uscitizen said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> What has become of our great white nation???
> 
> 
> 
> It is sinking into the third world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We only have one world and we need to learn to get along better.
Click to expand...

Your so cute


----------



## MikeK

draper said:


> Ameri*ca* as we know it, gone.
> 
> Geronimo could have said that too................
> 
> What do you propose we do about it?  Insist on whites having more kids?  Sterilize hispanic women?


The most practical solution to the problem would be expansion of birth control, sterilization and abortion services combined with denial of public assistance to parents who cannot afford to raise new children.  While that might seem rather insensitive the alternative is something we simply cannot afford.


----------



## uscitizen

Preliminary census estimates also suggest the number of multiracial Americans jumped roughly 20 percent since 2000, to over 5 million.


What is there to worry about?  In another 100 years we will mostly all be some shade of brown due to genetic mixing anyway.

or is that what scares many?  Losing their racial purity?


----------



## Tank

uscitizen said:


> What is there to worry about?  In another 100 years we will mostly all be some shade of brown due to genetic mixing anyway.


Hitler had the same dream as yours


----------



## Vargulf

Illegal immigrants shouldn't be allowed to apply for US citizenship, even if their kids are born here.  There are thousands who have to wait years to get into the US legally.  Allowing the illegals to stay is a slap in the face of those who obey the laws.  Toss the illegals out; all of them.


----------



## Comrade Ishmael

We are all citizens of the world.

Nationalism is a disease.


----------



## Colin

Comrade Ishmael said:


> We are all citizens of the world.
> 
> Nationalism is a disease.



And communism is a cancer that forces its followers to aspire to the lowest common denominator.


----------



## LilOlLady

"Terrorists have been arrested on the border, security chief says"
September 14, 2007
By Michael Cutler
Here's the lead from an article that deals with the nexus between our nation's failure to secure our borders and the imminent danger that this lunacy poses to our nation's security, six years after the attacks of September 11, 2001: "Texas' top homeland security official said Wednesday that terrorists with ties to Hezbollah, Hamas and al-Qaida have been arrested crossing the Texas border with Mexico in recent years." The official described one person caught in 2004 as being tied to a Pakistan insurgent group and whose specialty was smuggling Afghanis and other illegal aliens across the border.
Counterterrorism Blog: "Terrorists have been arrested on the border, security chief says"
*
This has been happening for years.
If we are going to fight terrorist with our military, we need to put our militray on our borders. We put them on the Afghanistan border.
A man was just arrested that has ties with terrorist after crossing our southern border with the help of coyotes.*


Controversial Muslim cleric is arrested while sneaking into the U.S.Deported from Canada to Tunisia three years ago, Muslim cleric Said Jaziri was found hiding in the trunk of a BMW near the Mexican border.

Said Jaziri's deportation case drew attention in Canada three years ago&#8230; (Fethi Belaid / AFP/Getty Images)January 27, 2011|By Richard Marosi, Los Angeles Times

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan/27 ... c-20110127


----------



## 30x90

gekaap said:


> 30x90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not his lawyer, but I THINK his point was that those things; chess, gunpowder, and printing, contributed to the overall improvement of civilization (Well, maybe not gunpowder)...and the western world.
> 
> I could be wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More or less.  Though I'm not sure that I would say improvement so much as that those things have all, for better or worse, been contributions to making western civilization what it is.  Would the USA, as it is, been possible without gun powder?  It certainly would have been much more difficult to steal away the lands of Native American tribes.
Click to expand...


"Steal" the land of the native americans? They weren't an organized society that had established borders, governments or any of the things required to be called a "civilization". They didn't "own" anything. They were itinerant wanderers essentially still living in the stone age...(much like the negroes in africa that were captured by their own countrymen and sold into slavery)...If they were such a great, "advanced civilization" they would have been able to withstand and overcome any threat from outside because of their great inventions and adaptations of technology..except they didn't have any.
Whatever..Europeans were much more intelligent and advanced and dominated them.

..and they weren't "native" to this country...they migrated here, too...probably from asia originally.

There will always be superior races and civilizations..It's how human beings operate. The weak will always be subjugated by the strong...The more intelligent will always win out over the less...except where govt. gets involved to ensure "equality"..


----------



## 30x90

uscitizen said:


> Preliminary census estimates also suggest the number of multiracial Americans jumped roughly 20 percent since 2000, to over 5 million.
> 
> 
> What is there to worry about?  In another 100 years we will mostly all be some shade of brown due to genetic mixing anyway.
> 
> or is that what scares many?  Losing their racial purity?



Pure speculation and multi cultural nonsense. 

Japan will NEVER be a muddle of "brown" people..They value their heritage and racial purity. Same with China..

Superior, more advanced races don't necessarily want their gene pool polluted by a weaker breed.

There's nothing wrong with protecting and preserving one's culture and heritage. 
..unless you're white, of course..then you are a "racist"


----------



## Comrade Ishmael

Colin said:


> Comrade Ishmael said:
> 
> 
> 
> We are all citizens of the world.
> 
> Nationalism is a disease.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And communism is a cancer that forces its followers to aspire to the lowest common denominator.
Click to expand...


Perhaps you could explain how that works.

I'll explain to you why Nationalism is poison. You seperate people based on location, based on under which government they are subservient. The end result is the dehumanization of anyone not from your nation, from your ethnicity, from your race.

Why is being American a virtue? To simply be born within the confines of artificial borders? To be a slave to the corporate-ruling class? What honor is there in that which supercedes being Russian, or Chinese, or French?

What is the point of National segregation? Will it be any more productive than racial segregation?


----------



## gekaap

30x90 said:


> "Steal" the land of the native americans? They weren't an organized society that had established borders, governments or any of the things required to be called a "civilization". They didn't "own" anything. They were itinerant wanderers essentially still living in the stone age...(much like the negroes in africa that were captured by their own countrymen and sold into slavery)...If they were such a great, "advanced civilization" they would have been able to withstand and overcome any threat from outside because of their great inventions and adaptations of technology..except they didn't have any.
> Whatever..Europeans were much more intelligent and advanced and dominated them.
> 
> ..and they weren't "native" to this country...they migrated here, too...probably from asia originally.
> 
> There will always be superior races and civilizations..It's how human beings operate. The weak will always be subjugated by the strong...The more intelligent will always win out over the less...except where govt. gets involved to ensure "equality"..



Disturbingly egocentric.  Because they didn't conform to European standards, they were lesser.  Disturbing, and disgusting.


----------



## 30x90

gekaap said:


> 30x90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Steal" the land of the native americans? They weren't an organized society that had established borders, governments or any of the things required to be called a "civilization". They didn't "own" anything. They were itinerant wanderers essentially still living in the stone age...(much like the negroes in africa that were captured by their own countrymen and sold into slavery)...If they were such a great, "advanced civilization" they would have been able to withstand and overcome any threat from outside because of their great inventions and adaptations of technology..except they didn't have any.
> Whatever..Europeans were much more intelligent and advanced and dominated them.
> 
> ..and they weren't "native" to this country...they migrated here, too...probably from asia originally.
> 
> There will always be superior races and civilizations..It's how human beings operate. The weak will always be subjugated by the strong...The more intelligent will always win out over the less...except where govt. gets involved to ensure "equality"..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disturbingly egocentric.  Because they didn't conform to European standards, they were lesser.  Disturbing, and disgusting.
Click to expand...


Civilization and technology rendered them obsolete. They didn't advance fast enough and were overtaken.
Again..It's how human beings (and nature) operate.


----------



## waltky

Granny says any dem terrorists come `round here...

... an' dey gonna get a Mossburg 12ga. load of rocksalt in their butt.


----------



## Tank

Obama is going to sue the security chief.


----------



## BrianH

It's true...And they're coming across these people by accident most of the time.  They'll come across a group of 15 or 20 illegals that have two or three middle-eastern people mixed in....  Sometimes they'll get a tip and go round these terrorists up.  It's getting really rough down there and people have no idea.  I live in south Texas and even I didn't realize how bad it was a few hours away...


----------



## FifthColumn

José;3263683 said:
			
		

> [You say "*Mexico also encourages their people to illegally immigrate*" but you were unable to find any official ad paid by the Mexican government or money being given to illegals to prove your accusations. Just hearsay about a statement supposedly made by a Mexican president. Ironically, the leaflet distributed by the Mexican governemnt strongly discourages Mexicans to cross the desert.
> 
> Then you say "*Mexico's heavy flood of illegal aliens does create a responsibility to make attempts to curb the flow*" but once again you are unable to present any international law or border agreement stating that Mexico has any duty to help America stem the flow of illegal Mexicans into America
> 
> .


 
Americans can TRUST MEXICO like they trusted the word of this guy:


----------



## FifthColumn

José;3263683 said:
			
		

> [You say "*Mexico also encourages their people to illegally immigrate*" but you were unable to find any official ad paid by the Mexican government or money being given to illegals to prove your accusations.


 






Will THIS do or is a billboard to small for you to see?


----------



## waltky

Arizona gonna put a stop to it...

*Arizona legislators consider birthright citizenship bill*
_February 7, 2011 -- The Arizona Senate Judiciary Committee began holding hearings Monday afternoon on proposals to end birthright citizenship under the 14th Amendment for U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants._


> Lawmakers in a total of 40 states are considering similar proposals "to correct the monumental misapplication of the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution," according to the legislators' new group, State Legislators for Legal Immigration.  The 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which was ratified in the wake of the Civil War, provides in part that "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." The provision has the effect of granting "birthright" citizenship to anyone born in the United States, even if both of the child's parents are in the country illegally.
> 
> The Arizona proposals, introduced by Republicans two weeks ago and quickly opposed by Democrats, are the latest measures following new Arizona laws that seek to crack down on illegal immigration but have landed up in court.  Sponsors of this latest legislation have said they hope the bills, if one becomes law, also will provoke a lawsuit so that the U.S. Supreme Court can re-examine the meaning of the 14th Amendment's citizenship clause.  Mike Philipsen, spokesman for the state senate's Republican majority, which holds 21 of the chamber's 30 seats, said the judiciary committee is scheduled to hear two hours of testimony from supporters and opponents of two bills seeking to end birthright citizenship for babies born on U.S. soil to illegal immigrants.
> 
> Under the proposals, Arizona would create a special class of birth certificates for children who are born to parents who can't prove their citizenship.  The committee is chaired by the bills' Senate sponsor, Ron Gould, said Philipsen.  "These folks are essentially gaming the system to put themselves ahead of the line," Gould told CNN, referring to illegal immigrants giving birth to children in the United States as a way for their children to have citizenship.
> 
> A similar measure is sponsored in the House by Rep. John Kavanagh, whose chamber has yet to schedule a hearing, Philipsen said.  "Obviously with this issue, there's going to be a lot of debate on it, there's going to be a lot of people speaking on it," Philipsen said of Monday's scheduled two-hour hearing.  If approved, the legislation would apply only to children born after the law went into effect or after a ruling from the expected court action, Kavanagh said.
> 
> MORE


----------



## LilOlLady

*DEPORT PREGNANT ILLEGAL ALIENS*

Deport pregnant illegal liens would solve the automatic birthright citizenship for children born here to illegal aliens and go a long way in controlling illegal immigration. When they show up for prenatal care, deport them.

*There is absolute no way we can control illegal immigration as long as the 14th Amendment applies to children of illegal aliens*.

The 14th Amendment does not say anyone born in the country is automatically an American citizen but we keep hearing this statement from pro-illegal alien advocates. Just because it has been miss applied for decades do not mean it has to continue. Subject to the Jurisdiction thereof is in the amendment clause for a reason. *Illegal aliens are not descendents of ex-slaves*. Matter of fact, *there is not longer a need for the 14th Amendment because there are no more ex-slaves.*

Anchor babies are anchors for their illegal parents and that makes is virtually impossible to enforce our immigration laws and deport the parents and that is one of the reason there are 20 million illegal aliens in this country. As long as the 14th Amendment applies to children of illegal aliens we will never be able to *control illegal immigration and secure our borders*.
ICE is not going to rip a mother from it child and deport her. We must force them to self deport with their anchor babies by taking jobs away from them. But that will not work because they will just live off AFDC for their anchor babies until the child is 18 and then in a few years he or she will petition for their parents citizenship.

We cannot have Comprehensive Immigration and border security without first repealing the 14th Amendment which is an *american tragedy*.


----------



## gekaap

I'm afraid you are very wrong about the 14th amendment.  It was passed on the heels of the Dred Scott case saying that there was no legal opportunity for black people to become citizens.  The 14th amendment offered that opportunity.

Regardless of those immediate concerns, the amendment does not specify any class of people.  It applies to all people.  The Supreme Court has affirmed this fact.

That being said, I do agree that it would be great if we could deport pregnant illegal aliens.  But getting to the point were we could regularly identify and deport such people would be very near an ideal situation (the only reason it would be less than ideal is the fact that a truly ideal situation would see no illegal immigrants at all).

The [theoretically] easiest thing to do would be to amend the constitution to require legal residence of parents for birthright citizenship.


----------



## WorldWatcher

LilOlLady said:


> *DEPORT PREGNANT ILLEGAL ALIENS*
> 
> Deport pregnant illegal liens would solve the automatic birthright citizenship for children born here to illegal aliens and go a long way in controlling illegal immigration. When they show up for prenatal care, deport them.
> 
> *There is absolute no way we can control illegal immigration as long as the 14th Amendment applies to children of illegal aliens*.
> 
> The 14th Amendment does not say anyone born in the country is automatically an American citizen but we keep hearing this statement from pro-illegal alien advocates. Just because it has been miss applied for decades do not mean it has to continue. Subject to the Jurisdiction thereof is in the amendment clause for a reason. *Illegal aliens are not descendents of ex-slaves*. Matter of fact, *there is not longer a need for the 14th Amendment because there are no more ex-slaves.*
> 
> Anchor babies are anchors for their illegal parents and that makes is virtually impossible to enforce our immigration laws and deport the parents and that is one of the reason there are 20 million illegal aliens in this country. As long as the 14th Amendment applies to children of illegal aliens we will never be able to *control illegal immigration and secure our borders*.
> ICE is not going to rip a mother from it child and deport her. We must force them to self deport with their anchor babies by taking jobs away from them. But that will not work because they will just live off AFDC for their anchor babies until the child is 18 and then in a few years he or she will petition for their parents citizenship.
> 
> We cannot have Comprehensive Immigration and border security without first repealing the 14th Amendment which is an *american tragedy*.




1.  I agree that Illegal Aliens should be a conduit for citizenship by squirting out a child on American soil since they broke the law even being here.

2.  The 14th Amendment did not (and does not) apply to just ex-slaves.  The intend of the 14th Amendment (according to the principle author John Bingham) was to make the Bill of Rights (at least the first 8) applicable to the states.



>>>>


----------



## kwc57

Gobstopper move?


----------



## High_Gravity

How about pregnant women on visas and green cards? will their children count as Americans or no?


----------



## Madeline

High_Gravity said:


> How about pregnant women on visas and green cards? will their children count as Americans or no?



Generally speaking, yes.  Almost any child born here is a citizen.

I think LilOlLady has a good idea, but I would have to ask:  why not just deport ALL illegal aliens?


----------



## LilOlLady

The Fourteenth Amendment (Amendment XIV) to the United States Constitution was adopted on July 9, 1868 as one of the Reconstruction Amendments.

Its Citizenship Clause provides a broad definition of citizenship that overruled the decision in* Dred Scott v. Sandford (1857*), which held that *blacks could not be citizens of the United States*.

Its Due Process Clause prohibits state and local governments from depriving persons of life, liberty, or property without certain steps being taken to ensure fairness. This clause has been used to make most of the Bill of Rights applicable to the states, as well as to recognize substantive and procedural rights.

Its Equal Protection Clause requires each state to provide equal protection under the law to all *people within its jurisdiction*. This clause later became the basis for Brown v. Board of Education (1954), the Supreme Court decision which precipitated the *dismantling of racial segregation in the United States*.

The amendment also includes a number of clauses dealing with the Confederacy and its officials.

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and *subject to the jurisdiction thereof*, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. 


*Background*Section 1 formally defines citizenship and protects a person's civil and political rights from being abridged or denied by any state. This represented the Congress's overruling of the Dred Scott decision to the extent that decision held that *black people were not, and could not become, citizens of the United States *or enjoy any of the privileges and immunities of citizenship.[1] The Civil Rights Act of 1866 had already granted U.S. citizenship to all persons born in the United States, *as long as those persons were not subject to a foreign power*; the framers of the Fourteenth Amendment added this principle into the Constitution to *prevent the Supreme Court from ruling the Civil Rights Act of 1866 to be unconstitutional for lack of congressional authority to enact such a law and to prevent a future Congress from altering it by a mere majority vote.*
This section was also in response to the Black Codes which southern states had passed in the wake of the Thirteenth Amendment, which ended slavery in the United States.[2] Those laws attempted to return freed slaves to something like their former condition by, among other things, restricting their movement, forcing them to enter into year-long labor contracts, and by preventing them from suing or testifying in court.[3]

Finally, this section was in response to violence against black people within the southern states. A Joint Committee on Reconstruction found that* only a Constitutional amendment could protect the rights and welfare of black people within those states*.[4]

Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## High_Gravity

Madeline said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about pregnant women on visas and green cards? will their children count as Americans or no?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Generally speaking, yes.  Almost any child born here is a citizen.
> 
> I think LilOlLady has a good idea, but I would have to ask:  why not just deport ALL illegal aliens?
Click to expand...


Because it doesn't work, Police used to pack up Hispanics and ship them back to Mexico in the 50s and 60s regardless of their status, legal or illegal. They just find their way back.


----------



## gekaap

High_Gravity said:


> How about pregnant women on visas and green cards? will their children count as Americans or no?



This is just what I would go for:

*When two parents are temporary but legal residents any children born would not be citizens by birth.  However an "upgrade" policy would apply; if the parents legally maintain residence for 10 years during the child's childhood, then they will earn citizenship with natural born recognition.

*When at least one person is a legal permanent resident or a citizen, then any child would be born a citizen.

*If only one parent is a legal temporary resident, the child would not be a citizen, automatic custody would befall the legal resident, and his/her legal status would be based on the continued legal status of the custodian parent.


----------



## LilOlLady

Original intent of the 14th Amendment


Post-Civil War reforms focused on *injustices to African Americans*. The 14th Amendment was ratified in 1868 to *protect the rights of native-born Black Americans*, whose rights were being denied as *recently-freed slaves*. It was written in a manner so as to* prevent state governments from ever denying citizenship to blacks born in the United States*. But in *1868, the United States had no formal immigration policy,* and the authors therefore *saw no need to address immigration explicitly in the amendment*. 
*Supreme Court decisions*
The correct interpretation of the 14th Amendment is that an illegal alien mother is subject to the jurisdiction of her native country, as is her baby. 

Over a century ago, the Supreme Court appropriately confirmed this restricted interpretation of citizenship in the so-called "*Slaughter-House cases*" [83 US 36 (1873) and 112 US 94 (1884)]13. In the 1884 *Elk v.Wilkins case12*, the phrase "subject to its jurisdiction" was interpreted to exclude "children of ministers, consuls, and citizens of foreign states born within the United States." In Elk, the American Indian claimant was considered not an American citizen because the law required him to be "not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction and owing them direct and immediate allegiance." 

The Court essentially stated that the status of the parents determines the citizenship of the child. To qualify children for birthright citizenship, based on the 14th Amendment, parents must owe "direct and immediate allegiance" to the U.S. and be "completely subject" to its jurisdiction. In other words, they must be United States citizens. 

Congress subsequently passed a special act to grant full citizenship to American Indians, who were not citizens even through they were born within the borders of the United States. The Citizens Act of 1924, codified in 8USCSß1401, provides that: 

The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
(b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe. 



The 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution - Fourteenth Amendment - anchor babies and birthright citizenship - interpretations and misinterpretations - US Constitution


----------



## LilOlLady

A Denver talk show host recently announced confidently that the *current policy on anchor babies could never be changed in this country*. But then, a few years ago, *no one in Ireland thought that the country's constitution could be amended, either*
Change U.S. law on anchor babies - Articles - CAIR - Colorado Alliance for Immigration Reform


*Countries that Grant Automatic Birthright Citizenship *
Argentina, Brazil, Cameroon, Canada, India, Jamaica, Mexico, Pakistan, Spain, United States, and Venezuela.  

*Countries that do NOT Grant Automatic Birthright Citizenship  *Algeria, Australia, Belgium, Columbia, Czech Republic, Egypt, France, Germany, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Kenya, Korea, Kuwait, New Zealand, Nigeria, Norway, Philippines, Poland, Saudi Arabia, Sweden, Switzerland, Syria, Taiwan, United Kingdom, and Zaire.


http://www.voiceforvoters.com/?p=47


----------



## LilOlLady

U*.S. fast food caught in immigration crosshairs* 
By Lisa Baertlein, Mary Milliken and Ed Stoddard Lisa Baertlein, Mary Milliken And Ed Stoddard  Mon Feb 7, 5:25 pm ET

LOS ANGELES/DALLAS (Reuters)  Chipotle Mexican Grill has a lot going for it -- an upscale burrito concept, a hip and eco-friendly image, expansion plans galore and a 500 percent-plus stock price gain in just over two years.

And then it has something not going its way -- a federal crackdown on its immigrant labor force that has so far forced Chipotle to *fire hundreds of allegedly illegal workers in the state of Minnesota*, perhaps more than half its staff there.

U.S. fast food caught in immigration crosshairs - Yahoo! News


----------



## WorldWatcher

LilOlLady said:


> Original intent of the 14th Amendment
> 
> 
> Post-Civil War reforms focused on *injustices to African Americans*. The 14th Amendment was ratified in 1868 to *protect the rights of native-born Black Americans*, whose rights were being denied as *recently-freed slaves*. It was written in a manner so as to* prevent state governments from ever denying citizenship to blacks born in the United States*. But in *1868, the United States had no formal immigration policy,* and the authors therefore *saw no need to address immigration explicitly in the amendment*.
> *Supreme Court decisions*
> The correct interpretation of the 14th Amendment is that an illegal alien mother is subject to the jurisdiction of her native country, as is her baby.
> 
> Over a century ago, the Supreme Court appropriately confirmed this restricted interpretation of citizenship in the so-called "*Slaughter-House cases*" [83 US 36 (1873) and 112 US 94 (1884)]13. In the 1884 *Elk v.Wilkins case12*, the phrase "subject to its jurisdiction" was interpreted to exclude "children of ministers, consuls, and citizens of foreign states born within the United States." In Elk, the American Indian claimant was considered not an American citizen because the law required him to be "not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction and owing them direct and immediate allegiance."
> 
> The Court essentially stated that the status of the parents determines the citizenship of the child. To qualify children for birthright citizenship, based on the 14th Amendment, parents must owe "direct and immediate allegiance" to the U.S. and be "completely subject" to its jurisdiction. In other words, they must be United States citizens.
> 
> Congress subsequently passed a special act to grant full citizenship to American Indians, who were not citizens even through they were born within the borders of the United States. The Citizens Act of 1924, codified in 8USCSß1401, provides that:
> 
> The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
> (a) a person born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
> (b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe.
> 
> 
> 
> The 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution - Fourteenth Amendment - anchor babies and birthright citizenship - interpretations and misinterpretations - US Constitution





In your multiple posts are you trying to say that the 14th Amendment only applied to black people?



>>>>


----------



## Madeline

High_Gravity said:


> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about pregnant women on visas and green cards? will their children count as Americans or no?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Generally speaking, yes.  Almost any child born here is a citizen.
> 
> I think LilOlLady has a good idea, but I would have to ask:  why not just deport ALL illegal aliens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because it doesn't work, Police used to pack up Hispanics and ship them back to Mexico in the 50s and 60s regardless of their status, legal or illegal. They just find their way back.
Click to expand...


Deportation could work if we had border security and we helped Mexicans rebuild Mexico, High Gravity.


----------



## High_Gravity

Madeline said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> 
> Generally speaking, yes.  Almost any child born here is a citizen.
> 
> I think LilOlLady has a good idea, but I would have to ask:  why not just deport ALL illegal aliens?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because it doesn't work, Police used to pack up Hispanics and ship them back to Mexico in the 50s and 60s regardless of their status, legal or illegal. They just find their way back.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deportation could work if we had border security and we helped Mexicans rebuild Mexico, High Gravity.
Click to expand...


How do we help them rebuild Mexico? tossing money at a problem doesn't work, we give billions to Egypt and Pakistan every year and those countries are total shit holes.


----------



## Madeline

LilOlLady said:


> A Denver talk show host recently announced confidently that the *current policy on anchor babies could never be changed in this country*. But then, a few years ago, *no one in Ireland thought that the country's constitution could be amended, either*
> Change U.S. law on anchor babies - Articles - CAIR - Colorado Alliance for Immigration Reform
> 
> 
> *Countries that Grant Automatic Birthright Citizenship *
> Argentina, Brazil, Cameroon, Canada, India, Jamaica, Mexico, Pakistan, Spain, United States, and Venezuela.
> 
> *Countries that do NOT Grant Automatic Birthright Citizenship  *Algeria, Australia, Belgium, Columbia, Czech Republic, Egypt, France, Germany, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Kenya, Korea, Kuwait, New Zealand, Nigeria, Norway, Philippines, Poland, Saudi Arabia, Sweden, Switzerland, Syria, Taiwan, United Kingdom, and Zaire.
> 
> 
> WHAT COUNTRIES BAN BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP?  Voice For Voters



LilOlLady, I just dun think the political will is there to pass such an amendment.  It's not one even I would support, and I think I am almost as rabid on illegal immigration as you.  IMO, there are better places for us to apply our votes and voices.



> Senators Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), aptly nicknamed Grahamnesty by Michelle Malkin, and Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) confirmed that they are reuniting to push comprehensive amnesty. And they are recruiting some old and new faces to the debate.
> 
> Graham says the legislation is in the infant stage but the Senators are already seeking out conservatives and liberals to support a new amnesty plan. They hope that past allies, like Senators McCain and Kyl (both R-Ariz.), will desert their new politically expedient enforcement positions in order to add credibility to the legislation.
> 
> Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wisc.) fueled speculation saying that Senator McCain seems to think that theres a shot at this. Still, McCain says he will not entertain an amnesty bill before Congress passes the 10-point security plan he introduced with Kyl last year.
> 
> Freshman Senator and Tea party favorite Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) is also on their shortlist. Remarkably, Rubio avoided taking a firm position on immigration during the election, but birthright citizenship and amnesty bills in the Senate will soon force the freshman to prove his commitment to American interests.
> 
> Amnesty advocates, including the Service Employees International Union, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, and the National Immigration Forum, have been alerted by Schumers office to prepare for another amnesty battle in the 112th Congress. Surely they can expect one in the GOP controlled House.



Battle for Amnesty Renewed in the Senate | Facebook


----------



## WorldWatcher

Madeline said:


> LilOlLady, I just dun think the political will is there to pass such an amendment.  It's not one even I would support, and I think I am almost as rabid on illegal immigration as you.  IMO, there are better places for us to apply our votes and voices.




While I would support an amendment that clarifies "subject to the jurisdiction" to not award birthright citizenship to those whose mother is here illegally.  I admit that would be a long hard road.

On the other hand there are a lot of things that could be done, and should be done to remove the underlying cause of why Illegal's come here in the first place.

1.  Deny access to taxpayer funded social services.

2.  Deny access to taxpayer funded schools.

3.  Deny Illegal Aliens college/university attendance at taxpayer funded schools period and damn sure not at in-state rates.

4.  Require that anyone issued a Drivers License show proof of legal status.

5.  Require that Drivers License/State Photo ID indicate if someone is a citizen and if not the expiration date of their Legal Alien status.

6.  Provide a means for employers to realistically, accurately, and easily check the status of a persons eligibility to work in this country.

7.  Provide heavy fines and criminal jail time for employers that hire illegals (See #6).

8.  Make every government entity (School, Hospital, Unemployment, Police, Fire, Bus Driver, etc...) that comes in contract with the public in rendering services who must verify citizenship as a part of rendering those services a mandatory reporter if an Illegal Alien tries to access taxpayer services.

9.  Even without amending the Constitution, the Congress can enact Naturalization legislation provides that to be eligible for members of a persons family to be eligible for expedited naturalization due to your citizenship they your parents must have been in the country legally at the time of birth.  That would remove the whole "Anchor Baby" impact of squirting out a kid, who is now a citizen, and can act as a conduit for relatives to become citizens.​


One of these day people will come to realize that the solution to Illegal Aliens is not building fences along the border.  The long term solution is removing the reasons they come here to begin with.



>>>>


----------



## Angelhair

_In actuallity, Mexico does not want the USA to help rebuild it as they have to admit that it needs it.  They hate for the 'evil' USA to butt into their internal affairs but are quite willing to butt into the affairs of the USA!  They demand and accept our d.o.l.a.r.s but will not accept much of anything else that the USA has to offer.  They mad-mouth this country every chance they get and can't understand how the american people can be against illegal entry since the USA 'stole' the southwest from them.  They call americans lazy and racist and harp on what the 'whiteman' did to the native american but do not see their own natives in the streets with their child strapped behind their backs asking for money.  Nope, Mexico has a lot of growing up to do and much, much to learn.  I would say it is futile to expect any changes anytime soon.  They are doomed to living in misery and poverty._


----------



## syrenn

Madeline said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> 
> Generally speaking, yes.  Almost any child born here is a citizen.
> 
> I think LilOlLady has a good idea, but I would have to ask:  why not just deport ALL illegal aliens?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because it doesn't work, Police used to pack up Hispanics and ship them back to Mexico in the 50s and 60s regardless of their status, legal or illegal. They just find their way back.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deportation could work if we had border security and we helped Mexicans rebuild Mexico, High Gravity.
Click to expand...



Fuck mexico, and Help the Americans build a BIGGER fence.


----------



## syrenn

LilOlLady said:


> *DEPORT PREGNANT ILLEGAL ALIENS*
> 
> Deport pregnant illegal liens would solve the automatic birthright citizenship for children born here to illegal aliens and go a long way in controlling illegal immigration. When they show up for prenatal care, deport them.
> 
> *There is absolute no way we can control illegal immigration as long as the 14th Amendment applies to children of illegal aliens*.
> 
> The 14th Amendment does not say anyone born in the country is automatically an American citizen but we keep hearing this statement from pro-illegal alien advocates. Just because it has been miss applied for decades do not mean it has to continue. Subject to the Jurisdiction thereof is in the amendment clause for a reason. *Illegal aliens are not descendents of ex-slaves*. Matter of fact, *there is not longer a need for the 14th Amendment because there are no more ex-slaves.*
> 
> Anchor babies are anchors for their illegal parents and that makes is virtually impossible to enforce our immigration laws and deport the parents and that is one of the reason there are 20 million illegal aliens in this country. As long as the 14th Amendment applies to children of illegal aliens we will never be able to *control illegal immigration and secure our borders*.
> ICE is not going to rip a mother from it child and deport her. We must force them to self deport with their anchor babies by taking jobs away from them. But that will not work because they will just live off AFDC for their anchor babies until the child is 18 and then in a few years he or she will petition for their parents citizenship.
> 
> We cannot have Comprehensive Immigration and border security without first repealing the 14th Amendment which is an *american tragedy*.





I agree, deport them* before* they have the anchor baby!


----------



## gekaap

SeaShadow said:


> While I would support an amendment that clarifies "subject to the jurisdiction" to not award birthright citizenship to those whose mother is here illegally.  I admit that would be a long hard road.
> 
> On the other hand there are a lot of things that could be done, and should be done to remove the underlying cause of why Illegal's come here in the first place.
> 
> 1.  Deny access to taxpayer funded social services.
> 
> 2.  Deny access to taxpayer funded schools.
> 
> 3.  Deny Illegal Aliens college/university attendance at taxpayer funded schools period and damn sure not at in-state rates.
> 
> 4.  Require that anyone issued a Drivers License show proof of legal status.
> 
> 5.  Require that Drivers License/State Photo ID indicate if someone is a citizen and if not the expiration date of their Legal Alien status.
> 
> 6.  Provide a means for employers to realistically, accurately, and easily check the status of a persons eligibility to work in this country.
> 
> 7.  Provide heavy fines and criminal jail time for employers that hire illegals (See #6).
> 
> 8.  Make every government entity (School, Hospital, Unemployment, Police, Fire, Bus Driver, etc...) that comes in contract with the public in rendering services who must verify citizenship as a part of rendering those services a mandatory reporter if an Illegal Alien tries to access taxpayer services.
> 
> 9.  Even without amending the Constitution, the Congress can enact Naturalization legislation provides that to be eligible for members of a persons family to be eligible for expedited naturalization due to your citizenship they your parents must have been in the country legally at the time of birth.  That would remove the whole "Anchor Baby" impact of squirting out a kid, who is now a citizen, and can act as a conduit for relatives to become citizens.​
> 
> 
> One of these day people will come to realize that the solution to Illegal Aliens is not building fences along the border.  The long term solution is removing the reasons they come here to begin with.



To this list I would add remove citizen anchor babies from the custody of illegal parents, and let them become a ward of the state while deporting the parents.  Not that I'm in favor of pumping more children into the foster system.  But anchor babies allow illegals to stick around and to claim welfare benefits on their child's behalf.  I'd just as soon spend the money in a way that keeps the immigrants out, and makes exploitation of the anchor baby loophole undesirable, less profitable, and more risky.  As far as I'm concerned, anyone who illegally immigrates and then is irresponsible enough to go farther by having a child in a country where they are illegally present is not fit for parenthood.


----------



## FifthColumn

End all use of the Spanish language in the US......except for cursing!


----------



## LilOlLady

SeaShadow said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> Original intent of the 14th Amendment
> 
> 
> Post-Civil War reforms focused on *injustices to African Americans*. The 14th Amendment was ratified in 1868 to *protect the rights of native-born Black Americans*, whose rights were being denied as *recently-freed slaves*. It was written in a manner so as to* prevent state governments from ever denying citizenship to blacks born in the United States*. But in *1868, the United States had no formal immigration policy,* and the authors therefore *saw no need to address immigration explicitly in the amendment*.
> *Supreme Court decisions*
> The correct interpretation of the 14th Amendment is that an illegal alien mother is subject to the jurisdiction of her native country, as is her baby.
> 
> Over a century ago, the Supreme Court appropriately confirmed this restricted interpretation of citizenship in the so-called "*Slaughter-House cases*" [83 US 36 (1873) and 112 US 94 (1884)]13. In the 1884 *Elk v.Wilkins case12*, the phrase "subject to its jurisdiction" was interpreted to exclude "children of ministers, consuls, and citizens of foreign states born within the United States." In Elk, the American Indian claimant was considered not an American citizen because the law required him to be "not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction and owing them direct and immediate allegiance."
> 
> The Court essentially stated that the status of the parents determines the citizenship of the child. To qualify children for birthright citizenship, based on the 14th Amendment, parents must owe "direct and immediate allegiance" to the U.S. and be "completely subject" to its jurisdiction. In other words, they must be United States citizens.
> 
> Congress subsequently passed a special act to grant full citizenship to American Indians, who were not citizens even through they were born within the borders of the United States. The Citizens Act of 1924, codified in 8USCSß1401, provides that:
> 
> The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
> (a) a person born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
> (b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe.
> 
> 
> 
> The 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution - Fourteenth Amendment - anchor babies and birthright citizenship - interpretations and misinterpretations - US Constitution
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In your multiple posts are you trying to say that the 14th Amendment only applied to black people?
> 
> 
> 
> >>>>
Click to expand...


It was *written expecially for ex-slaves *and applied to *ex-slaves *and after they were given citizenship all their descendents were born citizens. That is what the automatic birthright citizenship clause meant and now it is of no use. You become a citizen by applying for citizenship and your off springs are citizens.  It was never meant to apply to "aliens"


----------



## Skull Pilot

[youtube]_wBzcnoRPag[/youtube]


----------



## LilOlLady

Madeline said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Denver talk show host recently announced confidently that the *current policy on anchor babies could never be changed in this country*. But then, a few years ago, *no one in Ireland thought that the country's constitution could be amended, either*
> Change U.S. law on anchor babies - Articles - CAIR - Colorado Alliance for Immigration Reform
> 
> 
> *Countries that Grant Automatic Birthright Citizenship *
> Argentina, Brazil, Cameroon, Canada, India, Jamaica, Mexico, Pakistan, Spain, United States, and Venezuela.
> 
> *Countries that do NOT Grant Automatic Birthright Citizenship  *Algeria, Australia, Belgium, Columbia, Czech Republic, Egypt, France, Germany, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Kenya, Korea, Kuwait, New Zealand, Nigeria, Norway, Philippines, Poland, Saudi Arabia, Sweden, Switzerland, Syria, Taiwan, United Kingdom, and Zaire.
> 
> 
> WHAT COUNTRIES BAN BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP?  Voice For Voters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady, I just dun think the political will is there to pass such an amendment.  It's not one even I would support, and I think I am almost as rabid on illegal immigration as you.  IMO, there are better places for us to apply our votes and voices.
> l]
Click to expand...


Never say nerver, Madeline. It will become a necessity for the survival for this country but it will be a little too late. More raids on businessses and more deportations and better border security is not enough. It is really too late to correct ABC. It has already cause a domino effect on immigration. Over population will be our demise. This is a really good article on the issue. 

*Birthright citizenship is one of the medias powerful tools to advance the Senate immigration bill. The media use young children, even babies, as showpieces, arguing that if the government does not legalize, or grant amnesty to their parents, then these children will be left without mothers and fathers if their parents are deported. Its one sob story after another. 

An example was a May 20, 2007, article in the Washington Post Style section using a color half-page photo that covered the entire upper fold of the front page with the picture of a young girl crying while being held in her mothers arms. The photo ran with the headline Poster Child. It showed a March 7 photo of 2-year-old Tomasa Mendez, crying in her mothers arms because her father was suspected of being in the U.S. illegally Mendez was born here; her parents were not. Her father was taken into custody by immigration authorities for doing illegal work at a Massachusetts clothing factory that makes backpacks for U.S. military personnel. The implication however was clearthat her father, and perhaps her mother, might be deported, and the poor child would be left behind. *
$6 Billion a Year for Mexican &#8220;Anchor Babies?&#8221;


----------



## LilOlLady

With 5 million plus anchor babies in this country, it makes it impossible to control immigration. This is one war we have already lost. If we closed the border today and cut off all jobs to illegals today, we are still in big trouble with the effect of 5 million anchor babies on our future.

*Illegal Alien Jackpot Anchor 
Babies Wreck US - Pt 2*
By Frosty Wooldridge
2-23-10

Part 2: Degrading schools and communities and welfare 

Every year, *400,000 pregnant women enter the United States legally *and illegally to birth their babies on American soil. Their children become instant citizens and their mothers become *instant wards of the American taxpayer*. 

Illegal Alien Jackpot Anchor Babies Wreck US - Pt 2


----------



## LilOlLady

*Massive immigration will destroy America*
Insight on the News,* Oct 3, 1994 *by Lawrence Auster 
http://www.usmessageboard.com/immig...rt-pregnant-illegal-aliens-2.html#post3299633

*16 years ago we were warned and reality has shown it ugly face and we are still talking and doing nothing. Calif will never recover from the effect of illegal immigration*.
*We do not have the natural resources to substain the population growth of illegal immigration*.


9.13.2007 12:00 AM
*Natural Resources Being Depleted At Record Rates*
*United States Leads World in Over-Consumption*: Vital Signs Report


Read more: http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmental-news/latest/6628#ixzz1DPbKbN8Z


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Angelhair*
> hey call americans lazy and racist and harp on what the 'whiteman' did to the native american but do not see their own natives in the streets with their child strapped behind their backs asking for money.



*I see a lot of super patriotic american clowns on this Board blaming Mexico's white elites for the poverty of mexican Indians and mestizos.

But interestingly enough I don't see any of these same clowns blaming themselves (White America) for all the violence, poverty and stench of urine of the typical american black ghetto!!!!*


----------



## José

*SUPER PATRIOTIC AMERICAN CLOWN OF THE USMb... 

GO LIVE IN A CIRCUS WHERE YOU BELONG!!!!*


----------



## BolshevikHunter

José;3299917 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *Angelhair*
> hey call americans lazy and racist and harp on what the 'whiteman' did to the native american but do not see their own natives in the streets with their child strapped behind their backs asking for money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I see a lot of super patriotic american clowns on this Board blaming Mexico's white elites for the poverty of mexican Indians and mestizos.
> 
> But interestingly enough I don't see any of these same clowns blaming themselves (White America) for all the violence, poverty and stench of urine of the typical american black ghetto!!!!*
Click to expand...


Hey Wango Culo? That's because only a  historically uneducated moron would not understand that the Spanish Inquisition and the Gachupines did indeed set the stage for the mestizos to fail. 

Look, White America is not responsible for Black poverty. How about you take a look at Worldwide Black poverty Amigo? I am sure that's all Whitey's fault too eh? ~BH


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *BolshevikHunter*
> Look, White America is not responsible for Black poverty. How about you take a look at Worldwide Black poverty Amigo? I am sure that's all Whitey's fault too eh?


LOL

Wasn't this exactly what I said??

White Mexico is not responsible for the poverty of mexican Indians and Mestizos like so many people here say just like White America can't be blamed for all the violence, poverty, tons of grafitti and the strong stink of urine that emanates from so many black ghettos.


----------



## Tank

José;3299920 said:
			
		

> *SUPER PATRIOTIC AMERICAN CLOWN OF THE USMb...
> 
> GO LIVE IN A CIRCUS WHERE YOU BELONG!!!!*


Did you do this with a spray can?


----------



## BolshevikHunter

José;3300065 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *BolshevikHunter*
> Look, White America is not responsible for Black poverty. How about you take a look at Worldwide Black poverty Amigo? I am sure that's all Whitey's fault too eh?
> 
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> Wasn't this exactly what I said??
> 
> White Mexico is not responsible for the poverty of Indian and Mestizos like so many people here say just like White America can't be blamed for all the violence, poverty, tons of grafitti and the strong stink of urine that emanates from so many black ghettos.
Click to expand...


Jose, I myself do blame the corrupt Government of Mexico for their peoples misery. I have traveled to Mexico many times and it's the Mestizos who are always kind and smile at you. Watching how the Spanish / Mexican upper class treats them while staying at the resorts is enough to make one sick. I also talk to them alot about it and they love Americans more than their own people because we treat them good when the Gachupines just shit on them, no tips and order them around like dogs.

Anyway, I don't blame them or anyone else for wanting to come here, but we are a Nation of Laws and we can't shoulder the entire turd world of this planet. ~BH


----------



## José

Tank said:


> José;3299920 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *SUPER PATRIOTIC AMERICAN CLOWN OF THE USMb...
> 
> GO LIVE IN A CIRCUS WHERE YOU BELONG!!!!*
> 
> 
> 
> Did you do this with a spray can?
Click to expand...


Tank... let me explain the whole crap to you...

Angelhair is a white american woman who opposes illegal immigration of Indians and mestizos from Mexico/Latin America (although she won't admit the "racial component" of her stance).

So in order to avoid looking racist in front of the whole USMB she goes to extreme lengths to blame her white brothers in Mexico for the misery of Indians and Mestizos.

Angelhair is willing to throw white Mexicans to the wolves as part of her desperate effort to hide the racial component of her opposition to mexican illegal immigration.

This is the sad, pathetic state the white race finds itself in...


----------



## Tank

If you don't blame white people, then you would have to discuss racial differences.


----------



## José

BolshevikHunter said:


> José;3300065 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *BolshevikHunter*
> Look, White America is not responsible for Black poverty. How about you take a look at Worldwide Black poverty Amigo? I am sure that's all Whitey's fault too eh?
> 
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> Wasn't this exactly what I said??
> 
> White Mexico is not responsible for the poverty of Indian and Mestizos like so many people here say just like White America can't be blamed for all the violence, poverty, tons of grafitti and the strong stink of urine that emanates from so many black ghettos.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jose, I myself do blame the corrupt Government of Mexico for their peoples misery. I have traveled to Mexico many times and it's the Mestizos who are always kind and smile at you. Watching how the Spanish / Mexican upper class treats them while staying at the resorts is enough to make one sick. I also talk to them alot about it and they love Americans more than their own people because we treat them good when the Gachupines just shit on them, no tips and order them around like dogs.
> 
> Anyway, I don't blame them or anyone else for wanting to come here, but we are a Nation of Laws and we can't shoulder the entire turd world of this planet. ~BH
Click to expand...


OOOOOHHHHHHHH, I see!!

White America should not be blamed for the poverty of black americans.

But white Mexicans are to be blamed for all the misery of mexican Indians and Mestizos from the day Hernan Cortés arrived in Veracruz to today.

How fair and impartial of you!!


----------



## BolshevikHunter

José;3300078 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *BolshevikHunter*
> Look, White America is not responsible for Black poverty. How about you take a look at Worldwide Black poverty Amigo? I am sure that's all Whitey's fault too eh?
> 
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> Wasn't this exactly what I said??
Click to expand...


And no that's not exactly what you said bro. What you said was......that you found it interesting that we don't blame ourselves for Black Poverty. Well, That's not exactly an endorsement of our position.  ~BH


----------



## Angelhair

José;3300114 said:
			
		

> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José;3299920 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *SUPER PATRIOTIC AMERICAN CLOWN OF THE USMb...
> 
> GO LIVE IN A CIRCUS WHERE YOU BELONG!!!!*
> 
> 
> 
> Did you do this with a spray can?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tank... let me explain the whole crap for you...
> 
> Angelhair is a white american woman who opposes illegal immigration of Indians and mestizos from Mexico/Latin America (although she won't admit the "racial component" of her stance).
> 
> So in order to avoid looking racist in front of the whole USMB she goes to extreme lengths and blame her white brothers in Mexico for the misery of Indians and Mestizos.
> 
> Angelhair is willing to throw white Mexicans to the wolves as part of her desperate effort to hide the racial component of her opposition to mexican illegal immigration.
> 
> This is the sad, pathetic state the white race finds itself in...
Click to expand...


_Say what Jose????  I oppose ALL illegal entry in to the USA!!!!  And that includes ALL countries.  It did not take long for you to pull that proverbial race card, eh?  I blame ALL mexicans for Mexico's plight - but - you are in deep denial if you think that racism against those indians which you speak of does not run rampant in MEXICO!  I am not willing to throw anybody to the wolves - just throw them back to the country they came from.  The white race does not find itself in a pathetic state - I would venture to say that it's the REST of the world who finds itself in a patethic state.  The USA has done very well thank you!!!  And - will continue to do so. _


----------



## BolshevikHunter

José;3300128 said:
			
		

> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José;3300065 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> Wasn't this exactly what I said??
> 
> White Mexico is not responsible for the poverty of Indian and Mestizos like so many people here say just like White America can't be blamed for all the violence, poverty, tons of grafitti and the strong stink of urine that emanates from so many black ghettos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jose, I myself do blame the corrupt Government of Mexico for their peoples misery. I have traveled to Mexico many times and it's the Mestizos who are always kind and smile at you. Watching how the Spanish / Mexican upper class treats them while staying at the resorts is enough to make one sick. I also talk to them alot about it and they love Americans more than their own people because we treat them good when the Gachupines just shit on them, no tips and order them around like dogs.
> 
> Anyway, I don't blame them or anyone else for wanting to come here, but we are a Nation of Laws and we can't shoulder the entire turd world of this planet. ~BH
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OOOOOHHHHHHHH, I see!!
> 
> White America should not be blamed for the poverty of black americans.
> 
> But white Mexicans are to be blamed all the misery in Mexico from the day Hernan Cortés arrived in Veracruz to today.
> 
> How fair and impartial of you!!
Click to expand...


You see? I do blame our past rulers for how the Native Americans were treated, but better us than the Russians grabbing North America. Don't even bother crying about how we stole Mexico's land because we didn't. We could have taken it after beating your ass, yet we signed the Treaty of Guadalupe with you and purchased it. You offered us Baja for 50 million (1.3 billion today), but we unfortunately declined. I think Cabo USA would have been great Jose, don't yuh think? Real good surfing down there bro. 

As far as Black poverty goes, I think it's blown out of proportion by the media. Look, All races are in poverty in the USA, that's the big secret that the media never tells the sheople. Actually, I bet their are more poor White people these days than poor Black people because there are simply so many more White people in general. Blacks have had plenty of time to get their shit together, and most have or did. The problem is Black males in Prison. Hell, Our President is Black. I think equality has been reached. 

Anyway, Blacks are not oppressed today like the Mestizos are and were centuries ago. The Mestizos were not only enslaved, but had their land seized, women and children killed or raped and culture virtually wiped out. No comparison bro, none whatsoever. Also, Blacks were sold into slavery by their own, and then put on Jewish & Portugese merchant slave ships. So quit blaming everything on White people. Blame those who made a profit off of bringing them here. Some of you guys are so stuck on hating White people when we are the kindest on the planet by allowing everyone to come here and enjoy America. You think you would get such love from Red China? LMAO!!! They would kill you all to make room! LOL!!!!! Hell, take a look at Mexicos immigration policy. Now that is a great immigration policy!  ~BH


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Angelhair*
> I blame ALL mexicans for Mexico's plight



Are you sure you do?



> *Angelhair* posted 10 - 16 - 2010
> I wonder how much *Carlos Sims* gives back and does to help the poor in MEXICO??? And how about the rest of the rich mexicans? Come on Jose, you know very well that the latino mentality is NOT one of the most 'giving'!! Was it not Bill Gates who told Sims he HAD to give back to the people who made him rich?


----------



## José

*This is the kind of Mexican Angelhair blames for the poverty of Indians and Mestizos.

Does he look like the average mexican Indian or Mestizo to you?

Does he look like Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, Geronimo or Montezuma?*




*CARLOS SLIM*​


----------



## José

In the same message Angelhair said this:

*Could it be because it (poverty among blacks) is NOT the fault of the 'white AMERICAN elite??? *

And this:

*How about blaming the poverty, violence, graffiti, and stink of urine in ALL american ghettos on the people themselves???*

This is the blatant, scandalous double standards that gives me murderous tendencies.

When the super patriotic american clown debates poverty among american blacks all you hear is:

*Slavery was abolished 150 years ago. 

Nobody alive today had anything to do with it.

America does not owe blacks and indians anything other than the right to get a job and work their asses off.*

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH...

But when the subject is poverty in Mexico their tune changes drastically:

*The big, bad, evil white Mexican gives at least 200 lashes to their Indian and Mestizo slaves every night.

I have it on good authority that they even promote cannibalistic rituals in which they drink the blood and devour the raw flesh of Indian and Mestizo babies after sodomising their corpses.*

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH...


----------



## José

This kind of double standards towards white Mexicans gives me a tremendous desire to spend 15 minutes alone with a couple of super patriotic american clowns.

Not to kill them... just mutilate them... 

Cut off a finger or two.


----------



## José

Now seriously...

The same white americans who reject white guilt in America want to shove it down the throats of white mexicans.

How retarded is that??


----------



## Madeline

Here's a breath-taking statistic for this thread.  The Pew Hispanic Center reports that 8% of all babies born in the US have illegal alien parents.

EIGHT percent.  I had no idea it was so many.

http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/133.pdf


----------



## Madeline

José;3301043 said:
			
		

> Now seriously...
> 
> The same white americans who reject white guilty in America want to shove it down the throats of white mexicans.
> 
> How retarded is that??



The perennial argument about who is "white" and who isn't?

What nonsense.


----------



## Zander

Plan B -kick them in the stomach?


----------



## Madeline

Zander said:


> Plan B -kick them in the stomach?



God, I hope that image was photoshopped.


----------



## José

Madeline said:


> José;3301043 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now seriously...
> 
> The same white americans who reject white guilty in America want to shove it down the throats of white mexicans.
> 
> How retarded is that??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The perennial argument about who is "white" and who isn't?
> 
> What nonsense.
Click to expand...


I know you don't reject white guilt neither in America nor in Mexico, Madeline, so no one can accuse you of being incoherent on this particular issue.

But you have an awful lot of posters on this Board (Angelhair, Old Rocks, Frazzledgear, just to name a few) and people in America who create a grotesque caricature of white Mexicans as savage capitalists ravaging the Mexican poor while at the same time blaming american blacks themselves for their poverty.

This is a hell of a double standard, specially when you consider that slavery was outlawed in Mexico almost 40 years before the American Civil War.


----------



## Madeline

José;3301085 said:
			
		

> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José;3301043 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now seriously...
> 
> The same white americans who reject white guilty in America want to shove it down the throats of white mexicans.
> 
> How retarded is that??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The perennial argument about who is "white" and who isn't?
> 
> What nonsense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know you don't reject white guilty neither in America nor in Mexico, Madeline, so no one can accuse you of being incoherent on this particular issue.
> 
> But you have an awful lot of posters on this Board (Angelhair, Old Rocks, Frazzledgear, just to name a few) and people in America who create a grotesque caricature of white Mexicans as savage capitalists ravaging the Mexican poor while at the same time blaming american blacks themselves for their poverty.
> 
> This is a hell of a double standard, specially when you consider that slavery was outlawed in Mexico almost 50 years before the American Civil War.
Click to expand...


Fair enough, Jose'.  Leave aside the racial question.  I understand Mexico once had a much larger middle class than it now does, and the elite, through a corrupt government, dismantled assets and basically embezzled them, impoverishing miillions and sending Mexico into a slide that has still not ended.

If that is an unfair characterization, please explain.


----------



## José

Madeline said:


> José;3301085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> 
> The perennial argument about who is "white" and who isn't?
> 
> What nonsense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know you don't reject white guilty neither in America nor in Mexico, Madeline, so no one can accuse you of being incoherent on this particular issue.
> 
> But you have an awful lot of posters on this Board (Angelhair, Old Rocks, Frazzledgear, just to name a few) and people in America who create a grotesque caricature of white Mexicans as savage capitalists ravaging the Mexican poor while at the same time blaming american blacks themselves for their poverty.
> 
> This is a hell of a double standard, specially when you consider that slavery was outlawed in Mexico almost 50 years before the American Civil War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fair enough, Jose'.  Leave aside the racial question.  I understand Mexico once had a much larger middle class than it now does, and the elite, through a corrupt government, dismantled assets and basically embezzled them, impoverishing miillions and sending Mexico into a slide that has still not ended.
> 
> If that is an unfair characterization, please explain.
Click to expand...


LOL... 

You did anything but "leave the racial question aside". Mexico's political and economic elite is 100% white. 

More white guilt for Mexico coming from America.


----------



## Madeline

José;3301144 said:
			
		

> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José;3301085 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know you don't reject white guilty neither in America nor in Mexico, Madeline, so no one can accuse you of being incoherent on this particular issue.
> 
> But you have an awful lot of posters on this Board (Angelhair, Old Rocks, Frazzledgear, just to name a few) and people in America who create a grotesque caricature of white Mexicans as savage capitalists ravaging the Mexican poor while at the same time blaming american blacks themselves for their poverty.
> 
> This is a hell of a double standard, specially when you consider that slavery was outlawed in Mexico almost 50 years before the American Civil War.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fair enough, Jose'.  Leave aside the racial question.  I understand Mexico once had a much larger middle class than it now does, and the elite, through a corrupt government, dismantled assets and basically embezzled them, impoverishing miillions and sending Mexico into a slide that has still not ended.
> 
> If that is an unfair characterization, please explain.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL...
> 
> You did anything but "leave the racial question aside". Mexico's political and economic elite is 100% white.
> 
> More white guilt for Mexico coming from America.
Click to expand...


I dun especially care what they LOOK like.  Did they do what I said or not?


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Madeline*
> I dun especially care what they LOOK like. Did they do what I said or not?



If you're referring to the 1994 financial crisis there are a lot of finger-pointing to do.

Government overspending, the armed rebellion in Chiapas, the murder of presidential candidate Luis Colosio (the rebellion and the murder generated a crisis of confidence and scared investors away), and yes, corruption.

But make no mistake. Mexico has been a third world country since its independence in 1810.

The root causes of economic development/underdevelopment is one of the least understood issues in economy, political science and sociology, Madeline.

You have a wide range of theories that go from racial explanations ("*Mexico's biggest problem is that it's full of Mexicans*") to sociological ones (*socio-economic-political structures inherited from Spain*).


----------



## Madeline

I think the racial theories are complete horseshit.  No surprise there, I suppose.  I'm not sure what the sociological theories might could be, but it's past time we started to have this discussion.

Seems to me, Mexico's economy must be heavily dependent on tourism.  It has to have been quite the blow that students in the US were advised to avoid Mexico during spring break last year.  And I have watched a tv show about a wealthy Mexican family who fled to the US after the husband was kidnapped.  They said their neighbors back in Mexico did not want to talk openly about such crimes for fear their property values would drop, but that more and more people in their situation were being forced out for fear of crime.

So here's my first question:  it looks to me like law and order has completely broken in most of Mexico.  How can it bet restored?  What does the Mexican government need that it does not have in order to take back the streets and end the glut of homicides by drug gangs?


----------



## LilOlLady

*IMMIGRANTS vs. ILLEGAL ALIENS*
Pro-illegal alien advocates like to compare illegal aliens who stole into this country illegally to immigrants that came through Ellis Island and registered and some of them were turned away. Illegal aliens did not register at the border.

Those immigrants who came through Ellis Island did not suck the welfare and healthcare system. Did not suck the life out of America like illegal aliens are doing. They and their children learned English on their own and not at the expense of the tax payers.

Immigrants of old built this country and illegal aliens are tearing it down. Immigrants of old did not cost this country billions they made contributions. 

They also like to be compared to Afro-Americans and their fight for freedom and civil rights after being released from 200 years of forced labor. Some Blacks were born into slavery and died in slavery. Never saw the face of freedom. They were brought here against their will. Illegal aliens were not.

How dare them or anyone who try to compare illegal aliens to Afro-American. It is a direct insult to every Afro-American and black leaders should take the lead in opposing illegal immigration because illegal aliens displace Black workers at a rate much higher than any other race.

Illegal aliens were not stolen from their country and forced into the labor force, they stole in under the cover of darkness like animals and did not register at the border. Even Blacks were registered on slave ships. Illegal aliens stole into this country and thief is a crime.

Illegal aliens are not immigrants and make no contribution to this country and they should be rounded up like cattle and sent home and never allowed back.

They are humans and should be treated humanely. If you expect to be treated humanely, then do the humane thing and enter the country like humans and not like animals.

There is absolute no comparison between immigrants that came through Ellis Island and Blacks that were brought here against their will and force into 200 years of free labor and illegal aliens.


----------



## LilOlLady

Zander said:


> Plan B -kick them in the stomach?




*Plan B is inhuman and we do not do that to animals much less illega aliens.* *They can have all the babies they want, just not on my pay check.**

Obama inherited trillions dollar wars AND a deficit. It is going to take a lot more money to get us out of the mess Bush got us into.*


----------



## LilOlLady

Madeline said:


> I think the racial theories are complete horseshit.  No surprise there, I suppose.  I'm not sure what the sociological theories might could be, but it's past time we started to have this discussion.
> 
> Seems to me, Mexico's economy must be heavily dependent on tourism.  It has to have been quite the blow that students in the US were advised to avoid Mexico during spring break last year.  And I have watched a tv show about a wealthy Mexican family who fled to the US after the husband was kidnapped.  They said their neighbors back in Mexico did not want to talk openly about such crimes for fear their property values would drop, but that more and more people in their situation were being forced out for fear of crime.
> 
> So here's my first question:  it looks to me like law and order has completely broken in most of Mexico.  How can it bet restored?  What does the Mexican government need that it does not have in order to take back the streets and end the glut of homicides by drug gangs?



They need it's people to revolt like in Egypt and take back their country by making demands of a corrupt government. American do not tuck tail and run when the going get rough. They stay stand and fight. Mexicans are a gutless bunch of cowards. If they want a better life they should fight for a better life. The Mexican of old would be ashamed of the wimps that are calling themselves Mexicans.

*Los Niños Héroes*
Mexico has known many heroes through her long and eventful history. Perhaps none have captured the imagination and stirred the hearts to the degree that Los Niños Héroes (Heroic Children) have. *In 1847, six brave young men fought valiantly for their country during the Mexican-American War. Tragically, they died defending her honor*.

Ranging in age from just *13 to 19 years of age, *these military cadets are remembered today with *reverence and national pride*. A great monument erected in their honor, Los Niños Héroes Monument, stands proudly at the entrance to Chapultepec Park in Mexico City. This historical memorial is visited by thousands of Mexican citizens and foreign travelers each year.
Los Ninos Heroes - Mexican-American War - Mexico History


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## LilOlLady

ELLIS ISLAND

Welcome to Immigration


----------



## FifthColumn

LilOlLady said:


> [
> They need it's people to revolt like in Egypt and take back their country by making demands of a corrupt government. American do not tuck tail and run when the going get rough. They stay stand and fight. Mexicans are a gutless bunch of cowards. If they want a better life they should fight for a better life. The Mexican of old would be ashamed of the wimps that are calling themselves Mexicans.
> 
> *Los Niños Héroes*
> Mexico has known many heroes through her long and eventful history. Perhaps none have captured the imagination and stirred the hearts to the degree that Los Niños Héroes (Heroic Children) have. *In 1847, six brave young men fought valiantly for their country during the Mexican-American War. Tragically, they died defending her honor*.
> 
> Ranging in age from just *13 to 19 years of age, *these military cadets are remembered today with *reverence and national pride*. A great monument erected in their honor, Los Niños Héroes Monument, stands proudly at the entrance to Chapultepec Park in Mexico City. This historical memorial is visited by thousands of Mexican citizens and foreign travelers each year.
> Los Ninos Heroes - Mexican-American War - Mexico History


 

Mexico should publish this instead:

*But in Mexico**, corruption was more complicated, and violent. What happened in 1991 in the Veracruz incident, when Customs and Mexican drug law enforcement officials attempted to intercept a drug transport plane?* 

I was the assistant commissioner of Customs, and in charge of all law enforcement for Customs during the 1990 to 1994 period. The aircraft was a large airplane. It tripped the radars, and our aircraft began tracking it from South America up towards Mexico. And at that particular time a Mexican attorney general 's police aircraft took off, along with a U.S. Customs Citation jet. So there were two planes in the air, one loaded with Mexican attorney general's federal police, and the other with U.S. Customs pilots who maintained FLIR aircraft, and FLIR is the Forward-Looking-Infrared Radar, which can track heat sources, even in the nighttime. So it was basically the eyes and ears of the operation, and the plane from the government of Mexico was the actual response and action aircraft. 

The incident that occurred, that I became aware of, was that as the drug plane landed, the Mexico attorney general's plane came in not very long after it. As the plane came onto the ground, and the U.S. aircraft hovered, or circled above it, they began to note that there were cries of gunfire from the ground people over the radio. And on the FLIR tape and from the vision of the pilots, they reported to us that the Mexico agents were under fire. As the incident progressed, it was a long gunfight. One by one the Mexican drug agents from the government of Mexico were killed. The aircraft, hovering, or circling, the Customs aircraft, was able to record much of this. And it appeared that there were army vehicles, or what looked to be army vehicles, in the perimeter area around where this attack took place. 
It was so violent that the pilot with the drug plane--excuse me, the Mexico attorney general's plane, which was several hundred yards away from where the action was occurring, was actually tracked down by the individuals on the ground and killed. The incident lasted probably close to two hours. From start to finish. 





*Who were the assassins?* 
It was actually army troops. Army troops in that sector who had been, we found out later, paid to protect that airstrip and that load coming into Mexico. And I think the point here is that corruption paid off one side, however these Mexico federal police agents gave their lives trying to intercept and interdict this load of drugs. I think that, of all the shocks I've had in my career, that was probably the biggest, that an entire military unit would be involved in protecting drug loads. And to the point that they would actually attack and murder Mexican federal drug police. 





*How did the Mexican government react?* 
I would say that, having become intimately involved in that particular investigation, I saw a lot of courage on the part of the then-deputy attorney general, and some of the high police officials, who pushed very hard to prosecute the individuals involved. And in fact the prosecution did occur, and the senior officers involved were convicted, which is the first time ever that senior officers in the Mexican army were convicted of an action like that. 





*Yet U.S. drug officials were still wary of working with Mexican law enforcement. When U.S. law enforcement conducted an undercover money laundering operation in Mexico, nobody south of the border knew a thing about it. What happened with Operation Casablanca?* 

Well, I think what happened initially in Casablanca was, the Mexican government was really not aware of what we were doing. We were critically aware that there might be leaks. We had guarded against leaks all along the system, and a decision was made in Washington to notify the Mexican government officially at really the very last minute. Obviously that was embarrassing to the Mexican government. The case went down successfully. And there was a hue and cry in Mexico about U.S. operations, about sovereignty. There were a lot of issues and finger pointing about who knew, when they knew, and what were these U.S. agents doing in Mexico. 





*Can you describe the operation?* 
Casablanca originally was targeted at Cali cartel brokers, currency brokers, people who were the contact people to launder money. As that investigation proceeded, we ended up working on the Juarez cartel people. The Cali cartel and the Juarez cartel had one thing in common: they collected a lot of money in the United States, and they didn't know what to do with all that cash. And they needed to move it back to where they could spend it in a clean traceless way. As we proceeded in that investigation, and in other investigations, I might add, we ended up with an undercover money laundering organization, set up to approach these people and to identify their sources of money in the United States. During that phase of the investigation, we legitimately stumbled into some bankers in Mexico. And the bankers actually asked us, hey, we know what's going on, so why don't you cut us in. So we ended up targeting the banks because they had approached us. And as we started with one bank, going to two banks, we actually were besieged, and I use that term guardedly, but we were besieged by bankers who heard from their friends that there were big profits to make. And as we proceeded, we ended up two bankers, four bankers, six, and the numbers just kept going up. And during that operation we laundered over $100 million of traffickers' money through those banks down into--ultimately most of it went to Colombia. And we would actually bring these people in the operation, and with undercover cameras, they would sit and brag and talk for hours about how much money they were going to make, and that they clearly knew it was drug money, and didn't care. As long as they didn't touch the drugs themselves, they didn't care. It was all about money, and it was all about lining their own pockets. It was probably the best lesson in greed you could see on television. 





*How did you collect the money and what did you do with it once you had it?* 
We actually did pickups in various manners. Some monies were brought to us. Others, we would meet couriers in parking lots. We would deposit some of the monies in the banks in the United States. And then we would move some of it electronically to the banks in Mexico. In other cases, we would actually move the bulk cash to a bank in Mexico. So there were various ways that the money was moved into Mexico in those banks. 





*U.S. Customs agents would drive the money into a Mexican bank? How did you do it? *
Actually, the informant took money across the border, in at least one case that I know of. The majority was by electronic transfer. In some cases we used Caribbean banks that we had set up. And the money would move from Los Angeles to the Caribbean bank. From the Caribbean bank to Mexico, it would then either move back to the United States in converted form into Mexican bank drafts, and be deposited in various accounts that we stipulated, or it would move from those accounts, to other accounts sometimes offshore in the Caribbean. Or it could be transferred directly out of the Mexican bank to Colombia. And in some cases it would go not just to an individual bank account, but yet be laundered a second time in Colombia through a peso or currency exchange. So its identity became further remote. 





*It's hard to keep track. But I guess that's the point. But didn't the Mexican bankers become suspicious when you were able to move money through U.S. banks with such ease?* 
They didn't care as long as the money came to them. As long as they saw money coming to them across the border into those accounts, they only worried about money being transferred in. An electronic transfer from the United States was not something they worried about, because that part was legal. 





*They weren't worried about being arrested in Mexico?* They felt that they were immune from arrest. They bragged out they could control the system, that the banking laws were such that they didn't need to worry about them. 




Read more at:
frontline: drug wars: interviews: john e. hensley | PBS


----------



## LilOlLady

*Mexico: Government Corruption*, Drug Cartels and Illegal Immigration



Mexico.  On the surface,  it appears that this neighbor to the South has much to offer not only to the United States, but to all of the countries in the Americas.  It has beautiful beaches, abundant resources and a rich colorful culture. It could be a leader to rest of Latin America.  *In reality, Mexico has chosen to be a chronic problem that has made a mockery out of any notion of acceptance of American sovereignty, has allowed criminals to cross into the United States to commit violent crimes and then refuse to extradite them in any significant numbers.*  No active major Mexican drug trafficker has been extradited to the United States. Their politicians allow drug and human trafficking to overburden our law enforcement as a result of  the corruption that runs rampant throughout Mexico. In 2006, a tunnel was discovered running about 2,400 feet from a warehouse near the airport in Tijuana to a warehouse in San Diego. More than 2 tons of marijuana had been found inside. It was unclear how long the tunnel had been in operation.  Illegal aliens are NOT necessarily coming here just to work. Lou Dobbs reported that 33 percent of our prison population is now comprised of non-citizens. Plus, 36 to 42 percent of illegal aliens are on welfare. So, for a good proportion of these people, the *American dream is crime and welfare, not coming here to work*.  It always amazes me that Mexico and many legal and illegal Mexicans in America continues to paint America as the bad guys. It is simply ridiculous that things have been allowed to go this far, as our politicians refuse to act in a timely manner to put an end to the border controversy.  *American politicians of both parties are not acting on illegal immigration and the other problems that have accompanied it (i.e. human trafficking and narcotics smuggling), because they are being lobbied by Latino groups,  manufacturing, farming and other industries that have replaced American workers with the illegals that are looking to make an honest living but will work for cheaper wages and less benefits than ordinary Americans.* This combined with the new global market has resulted in the demise of the American middle class.  Politicians in recent years have been more concerned with the Hispanic vote than the American vote.  So what is really so bad with Mexico that so many people are running for America.

*Government Corruption*
During his first visit to the United States, Mexican President Calderón spoke at his alma Mater Harvard University, proposing job creation in Mexico as a means to stem Mexican migration to the United States. He said an increase in investment would boost the economy.  The truth is that Mexican trade with the US and Canada has tripled since the implementation of NAFTA in 1994. Mexico has 12 free trade agreements with over 40 countries including, Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, the European Free Trade Area, and Japan, putting more than 90% of trade under free trade agreements.  They should be more than any other country in the world able to produce enough jobs on their own for their own.  Calderon has be a realist and understand that the reason that U.S. and other industrialized nations are not willing to relocate and stay in Mexico is because the entire system is full of corruption.  Seriously, *bribery is a way of life in Mexico and corruption is instilled at an early age.*  It can be argued that this corruption begins when Mexicans are children and are taught from their parents to fear and distrust authorities. To begin to change the culture of corruption within the Mexican public, education must be the major tool. By educating the children of Mexico at an early age through the school system, there will likely be greater success at changing the culture of corruption. This is the same step that many industrialized countries have taken.

As far as saying investment is the answer to any problems that are occurring in Mexico is wrong.  Mexico, in order to attract new investment, must deal with itself with all it's resources from the inside out..  In Mexico, it is common to see local police harassing locals and tourists in order to be bribed.  The practice of "la mordida", the bribe, is a way of life in Mexico To get by, one makes no bones about slipping that cop a 20 peso bill to let you off for a minor traffic violation or bogus charge. After all, that's why he stopped you in the first place. The Mexican law enforcement is a true "For Profit Business".  They take bribes,  turn their heads and at times even assist criminals if the price is right.  It is estimated that bribery takes as much as 25% of the annual income of Mexicans.  It is this form of coercion and activity that has led many Mexicans into poverty.  

*The chain of command that currently exists within Mexican law enforcement is corrupt on all layers from the lowest ranks to the highest, they understand that their actions will not be punished, and this mindset makes it possible for them to continue their illegal ways*.

Jan 9, 2008 -- Judicial Watch, the public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption,  released a U.S. Border Patrol report titled, "Mexican Government Incidents.  The report describes 29 confirmed incidents in 2006 along the U.S. - Mexican border involving Mexican military and/or law enforcement personnel, 17 of which involved armed Mexican government agents. Among the incidents cited. January 3, 2006, [Troopers] attempted to apprehend three vehicles believed to be smuggling contraband on I-10... As the vehicles approached the border, Troopers stated that a Mexican Military Humvee armed with a .50 caliber weapon and several soldiers were seen assisting smugglers return to Mexico... Officers then noticed several armed subjects dressed in fatigue type clothing unload the contraband into the Humvee. These subjects set fire to the stalled vehicle before leaving the area.  

"These documents not only show the dangerous and chaotic situation at the Mexican border, but also the complicity of some Mexican government agents in violating U.S. law," said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. "The U.S. government must begin to take these incidents more seriously, publicize them and take measures to bring the crisis at our border under control."

Mexican Attorney General Medina Mora has long complained about the smuggling of weapons from the United States to Mexico.  Cartels arrange for the purchase of weapons in the United States and move them into Mexico.  *This problem is exacerbated by corruption within the Mexican Customs department, and the general lawless atmosphere that exists on the U.S.-Mexican border*.  

Amnesty International recently released a report detailing the flaws in the Mexican criminal justice system.  In regard to corruption, their study exposes that the *corruption rises into the ranks of judges and prosecutors*.  Calderon plans to send proposals to Congress that would make it easier to fire corrupt police officers and seize criminals.  In addition, *Calderon has said that he would like to see Mexicos trials resemble more closely those in the United States*. 

Next Section:  Mexico Drug Cartels


----------



## spectrumc01

I believe there is no reason to change the constitution (14th ammendment), because there is no law that states US children cannot leave the country.  Parents take their children out of the US everyday to live abroad, when deporting illegal aliens their children can go with them.  If the parents don't want to take them they can sign over their rights and the foster care system can take over.  There is no such thing as an "Anchor baby" since the baby in question can leave the country.  This is the middle ground view, as the left wants to change the constitution, and the right wants ammnesty.


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## waltky

Does she even know where the border is and why it is there??...

*Border Patrol Data Contradicts Napolitano's Testimony That U.S. Has 'Effective Control of the Great Majority' of Both Northern and Southern Borders*
_Wednesday, February 09, 2011 -- Data from U.S. Customs and Border Protection, a division of the Department of Homeland Security, contradicts testimony that Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano gave the House Homeland Security Commmittee on Wednesday in which she said that the U.S. government had secured effective control of the great majority of the both the northern and southern borders._


> According to the data that Customs and Border Protection (CBP) has provided to CNSNews.com, as of Sept. 30, 2010 (the end of fiscal year 2010), the U.S. government had established effective control of only about 44 percent (873 miles) of the 1,994-mile-long southwest border and only about 2 percent (69 miles) of the approximately 4,000 mile-long northern border.  Border miles under effective control is a metric the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) uses in its annual performance reports to measure the success of the Border Patrol.
> 
> As defined by DHS, a mile of the border is under the effective control of the government when the appropriate mix of personnel, equipment, technology and tactical infrastructure has been deployed to reasonably ensure that when an attempted illegal entry is detected, the Border Patrol has the ability to identify, classify and respond to bring the attempted illegal entry to a satisfactory law enforcement resolution.
> 
> In other words, a border mile under effective control is a place on the border where the U.S. government can be reasonably expected to intercept an illegal crosser.  Despite the CBP data showing that as of Sept. 30, 2010 only 44 percent of the U.S. Mexico border and only 2 percent of the U.S.-Canada border was under effective control, Napolitano told the House Homeland Security panel on Wednesday: Well, I think in terms of manpower, technology, infrastructure, we have effective control over the great majority of both borders particularly at the ports and then we are using manpower and new technology to help us between the ports.
> 
> It is a project that is never-ending, Napolitano told the committee. We are relentless in it. We recognize that when you are a country as large as ours with the kind of land borders we have that youre never going to seal those borders. That is an unrealistic expectation.
> 
> But I would say my top priority in terms of effective control is the Tucson sector of the southwest border, she said.  Napolitanos comments were in response to a question from Rep. Blake Farenthold (R-Tex.), whose district lies on the border, who asked her to provide the percentage of both of the U.S. land borders that the U.S. government had under control.
> 
> MORE



See also:

*ICE Allowed the Release of 890 Imprisoned Deportable Aliens, Convicted of Serious Crimes, Into U.S. in FY 2009*
_Wednesday, February 09, 2011 - Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) failed to identify more than 800 criminal alien convicts eligible for deportation before they were released from U.S. prisons, including many of  the most egregious criminal aliens, who pose a significant pubic safety risk, according to a report by the Inspector General for the Department of Homeland Security (DHS).  According to the report, released on Feb. 4, ICEs Criminal Alien Program, or CAP, is responsible for identifying criminal aliens incarcerated in federal, state, and local prisons and jails who are eligible for removal from the United States._


> In fiscal year 2009, CAP failed to identify 890 criminal aliens eligible for removal from the United States, according to the report. These criminals had been incarcerated in facilities in Texas and California and were released back into U.S. society.  A criminal alien eligible for removal is a person who is in the United States illegally and is subsequently convicted of a crime or was a legal permanent residents convicted of a removable offense, such as murder and other felonies.   Once an alien is identified as removable, ICE issues a detainer for that individual, which notifies correctional facilities of ICEs intent to take custody of an individual in that facility for the purpose of instituting removal proceedings.
> 
> According to the Immigration Policy Center, If ICE does not take custody within 48 hours, the detainer automatically lapses, and the state/local law enforcement agency is required to release the individual.  ICEs Criminal Alien Program is available at all state and federal prisons, in addition to more than 300 local jails throughout the country. ICE requested nearly $200 million for CAP in FY 2010, approximately $50 million more than it was allotted four years earlier.  The Inspector General (IG) report focused on cases involving alien inmates held in federal custody throughout the United States and in state custody in California, Texas, and New York. Those states hold about 64 percent of the foreign-borne U.S. inmate population.
> 
> ICE, through CAP, was successful in identifying 99% of the criminal aliens eligible for removal from the United States in federal custody during FY 2009, the report stated. However, identification rates in two of the four states reviewed were not as high. ICE agents did not identify approximately 4% of criminal aliens eligible for removal in California and 2% in Texas.  The audit later added that the Texas and California FY 2009 rates of non-identified criminal aliens translate to 890 (262 federal and 628 state) out of a total population of 49,033.
> 
> Many of the 890 criminals are believed to have been Level 1 recidivist criminals, the report added. Level 1 are the most egregious criminal aliens, who pose a significant pubic safety risk.  Level 1 offenses, according to the report, include homicide, kidnapping, sexual assault, robbery, aggravated assault, threats, extortion, sex offenses, cruelty toward family, resisting an officer, illegal weapon possession, hit and run, and drug offenses accompanied by sentences of more than a year.  The audit blamed the non-identification of the 890 aliens specifically on ICE agent staffing challenges, such as vacancies and increasing workload levels created by other criminal alien identification programs.
> 
> According to the report, ICE may have missed vetting some incarcerated criminal aliens eligible for removal because agents are not required to record aliens immigration status.  ICE agents do not always record and retain critical information and documentation used to determine the status of foreign-born inmates incarcerated in federal and state prisons, the report stated. This is because ICE procedures do not require agents to record and retain such information.
> 
> MORE


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## The Infidel

LilOlLady said:


> *NAPOLITANO NEEDS HELP FROM LOCAL OFFICERS*
> 
> Napolitano said homeland security needs help from local law enforcement in catching *homegrown terrorist.* But she dont need help in *stopping illegal aliens *who have killed more Americans than *homegrown or foreign terrorist *and more of a *threat to this country*. Thats not the job of local and state law enforcement?
> 23 year old Julian Castro, mayor of San Antonia, TX supports amnesty and Comprehensive Immigration Reform. Is he an anchor baby? IF he is, he is a *homegrown terrorist and a threat to America.*


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## The Infidel

Ravi said:


> Hitting the bottle early today?



speak for yourself


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## The Infidel

That dumb bitch will ask for their help but then prosecute them for criminally profiling illegals.

Go figure.... but then from this dumbass regime, this does'nt suprise me in the least.


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## LilOlLady

*ILLEG. IMMIG. BIGGEST THREAT TO HOMELAND SECURITY.*
We are fighting 2 wars in foreign land and we have a war being wages on us on our southern border and inland in every city in the US. And we are spending trillions on the two wars and the effect.     And would be no threat is we were not there.
Plainly Speaking: Illegal Immigration Costs U.S. More Than Iraq War

Illegal aliens are killing more Americans than the two wars and 9-11. They are raping 8 children each day. They are taking millions of jobs away from Americans. They are crowding American children out of an education. Many school in high illegal alien population has waiting list to enter kindergarten. Many American children in those areas are having to wait an extra year to attend. They are driving without licenses and insurance and causing accidents and deaths. Driving up your premiums. Some of those with drivers licenses and insurance are deliberately causing accidents to collect on auto insurance. 11 border agents have been killed on the border. Rancher has been killed and Property of ranchers have been destroyed. They are taking the American dream away from american, especially hit hard are Afro-Americans.
Rep. Russell Pearce: Domestic Terrorism: Illegal aliens in our country that assault, kill, and intimidate American citizens | Conservative Heritage Times

MS13 and other gangs are made up of anchor babies and their siblings and children who have entered the country illegally without a parent and cannot work and not going to school but have chose a life of crime instead.
'MS-13' gang threatens nation's security - msnbc tv - Rita Cosby Specials - msnbc.com
Child Detainees Battle System Alone

Thats the effect of illegal immigration we never hear from illegal aliens advocates. Somebody in our government is not doing their job 100% and they need to be fired and replaced with someone who will go the jobs.

Come 2012 we need to think hard on electing someone who is opposed to uncontrolled immigration and will do something about it. We dont want our children talking about illegal immigration 20 years from now except in history books.


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## Claudette

Its called an anchor baby becasue once born, at taxpayer expense, it is eligible for welfare also provided by we the taxpayer. 

Once this baby is born the mother received all the social services that a citizen will receive. 

No other country in the world recognizes a baby born of non citizens as a citizen of that country. 

The 14th ammendment was added to ensure the children of ex slaves were recognized as American citizens. 

It wasn't meant to cover the kids of illegals. Our idiot Govt needs to add an ammendment to the 14th to put a stop to this.


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## Tom Clancy

I thought the COTUS was sacred and nothing could be changed? 

Or only when it benefits you or something you don't agree with. 

I feel like a broken record repeating that to lolol'lady.


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## Angelhair

_Whether some here like to hear it or not - the USA allows illegals to get away with ALL because MEXICO IS THE ADOPTED CHILD OF THE USA!!!  They treat this child with kit gloves and it's time to put a stop to it._


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## LilOlLady

*Arizona Revised Statutes - Title 13 Criminal Code - Section 13-3884 Arrest by private person*

*13-3884. Arrest by private person*
A private person may make an arrest:

1. When the person to be arrested has in his presence committed a misdemeanor amounting to a breach of the peace, or a felony.

2. When a felony has been in fact committed and he has reasonable ground to believe that the person to be arrested has committed it. 


Sections:  Previous  13-3872  13-3873  13-3874  13-3875  13-3881  13-3882  13-3883  13-3884  13-3885  13-3886  13-3887  13-3888  13-3889  13-3890  13-3891  Next


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## LilOlLady

*Court upholds verdict against Arizona rancher who detained illegal immigrants on his land*

A federal appeals court rules that Arizona rancher Roger Barnett must pay *$87,000 to four illegal immigrants* he detained at gunpoint. The court says the immigrants were not armed and didn't threaten him.

In this photo from 1999, Roger Barnett looks out on his ranch in Douglas,&#8230; (Gary Friedman / Los Angeles Times)February 04, 2011|By Nicholas Riccardi, Los Angeles TimesA federal appeals court has upheld a controversial verdict that an Arizona rancher must pay $87,000 to four illegal immigrants he detained at gunpoint while they were crossing his property.

The ruling Thursday from a three-judge panel of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco found that the 2009 civil judgment against rancher Roger Barnett was proper and that the jury should not have been instructed that they could find Barnett acted in self-defense.

Court upholds verdict against Arizona rancher who detained illegal immigrants on his land - Los Angeles Times

*Now it's time for him to sue Homeland Security for not protecting his land against illegal aliens. *

*RICO -- Citizen Recourse*
Private persons and entities may initiate civil suits to obtain injunctions and treble damages against enterprises that conspire to or actually violate federal alien smuggling, harboring, or document fraud statutes, under the Racketeer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO). The pattern of racketeering activity is defined as commission of two or more of the listed crimes. A RICO enterprise can be any individual legal entity, or a group of individuals who are not a legal entity but are associated in fact, AND CAN INCLUDE NONPROFIT ASSOCIATIONS.


----------



## chikenwing

we keep this up,things will go very badly


----------



## manifold

The irony of course is if he shot and killed them he'd probably get off scot-free.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro

We've reached a point of insanity in this country when unqualified judges allow people who break federal law by illegally entering the country and trespass on a man's property to sue him for detaining them.  A man has a right to defend his property.  This ruling defies all common sense, but that's not surprising coming from the Ninth Circus Court which gets overturned by the SCOTUS 75% of the time.  He needs to appeal to the Supreme Court.


----------



## Intense

LilOlLady said:


> *Court upholds verdict against Arizona rancher who detained illegal immigrants on his land*
> 
> A federal appeals court rules that Arizona rancher Roger Barnett must pay *$87,000 to four illegal immigrants* he detained at gunpoint. The court says the immigrants were not armed and didn't threaten him.
> 
> In this photo from 1999, Roger Barnett looks out on his ranch in Douglas, (Gary Friedman / Los Angeles Times)February 04, 2011|By Nicholas Riccardi, Los Angeles TimesA federal appeals court has upheld a controversial verdict that an Arizona rancher must pay $87,000 to four illegal immigrants he detained at gunpoint while they were crossing his property.
> 
> The ruling Thursday from a three-judge panel of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco found that the 2009 civil judgment against rancher Roger Barnett was proper and that the jury should not have been instructed that they could find Barnett acted in self-defense.
> 
> Court upholds verdict against Arizona rancher who detained illegal immigrants on his land - Los Angeles Times
> 
> *Now it's time for him to sue Homeland Security for not protecting his land against illegal aliens. *
> 
> *RICO -- Citizen Recourse*
> Private persons and entities may initiate civil suits to obtain injunctions and treble damages against enterprises that conspire to or actually violate federal alien smuggling, harboring, or document fraud statutes, under the Racketeer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO). The pattern of racketeering activity is defined as commission of two or more of the listed crimes. A RICO enterprise can be any individual legal entity, or a group of individuals who are not a legal entity but are associated in fact, AND CAN INCLUDE NONPROFIT ASSOCIATIONS.



The Federal Court is in Violation of It's Trust.


----------



## LilOlLady

Criminal trespass in the third degree; classification

Detail: : 13-1502 Criminal trespass in the third degree; classification 
A. A person commits criminal trespass in the *third degree *by:

1. Knowingly entering or remaining unlawfully on any real property after a reasonable request to leave by the owner or any other person having lawful control over such property, or reasonable notice prohibiting entry.
2. Knowingly entering or remaining unlawfully on the right-of-way for tracks, or the storage or switching yards or rolling stock of a railroad company.
B. Criminal trespass in the third degree is a class 3 misdemeanor. 

------------------------
13-1503

Criminal trespass in the *second degree*; classification

Detail: : 13-1503 Criminal trespass in the second degree; classification 
A. A person commits criminal trespass in the second degree by knowingly entering or remaining unlawfully in or on any nonresidential structure or in any fenced commercial yard.
B. Criminal trespass in the second degree is a class 2 misdemeanor. 
-------------
13-1504

Criminal trespass in the *first degree*; classification

Detail: : 13-1504 Criminal trespass in the first degree; classification 
A. A person commits criminal trespass in the first degree by knowingly:
1. Entering or remaining unlawfully in or on a residential structure.
2. Entering or remaining unlawfully in a fenced residential yard.
3. Entering any residential yard and, without lawful authority, looking into the residential structure thereon in reckless disregard of infringing on the inhabitant's right of privacy.
4. Entering unlawfully on real property that is subject to a valid mineral claim or lease with the intent to hold, work, take or explore for minerals on the claim or lease.
5. Entering or remaining unlawfully on the property of another and burning, defacing, mutilating or otherwise desecrating a religious symbol or other religious property of another without the express permission of the owner of the property.
6. Entering or remaining unlawfully in or on a critical public service facility.
B. Criminal trespass in the first degree under subsection A, paragraph 1, 5 or 6 is a class 6 felony. Criminal trespass in the first degree under subsection A, paragraph 2,
3 or 4 is a class 1 misdemeanor. 
-----------------------------------
What is the penalty for trespassing private property in arizona? - Yahoo! Answers


----------



## LilOlLady

(PRWEB) June 14, 2000 

PRESS RELEASEDate: 14 June 2000
Subject: *Texas group forms to help Arizona ranchers protect against trespassers and repair property damage*
Contact: Mark HarjuEmail: publicaffairs@ranchrescue.comWebsite: http://www.ranchrescue.com14 June 2000 (Dallas, Texas, USA) &#8212; The citizen volunteer group &#8216;Ranch Rescue&#8217; today announced its formation in Dallas, Texas. The group is actively recruiting members to help ranchers on the Arizona / Mexico border cope with the damage to their property caused by thousands of criminal trespassers.


Thousands of undocumented aliens pass through the Douglas, Arizona area every month, from across the border with nearby Mexico. The ranch owners in the area report hundreds of thousands of dollars in property damage from the resulting criminal trespass on their private property. Trespassers cut fence lines, damage water irrigation systems, steal and slaughter livestock, break into the ranchers&#8217; homes and nearby businesses, and assault the ranchers.


Ranch Rescue will repair the downed fences, fix the broken irrigation systems, round up scattered livestock, and assist the Cochise County local ranch owners in protecting their private property against a vast number of criminal trespassers, some of whom are heavily armed drug smugglers. Ranchers and local law enforcement in the area have been overwhelmed by the sheer number of trespassers, and federal immigration law enforcement in the area has been unable to prevent the number of illegal border crossers from increasing dramatically over the past year.


The US Border Patrol reports a 350 percent increase in the apprehension of illegal border crossers in Arizona from 1994 to 1999. The number of apprehensions in Douglas nearly doubled between April 1999 and April 2000. Local ranchers say that the number actually caught is only a fraction of the number that make it far enough into southeastern Arizona to damage the ranchers&#8217; private property.


The Texas-based grassroots group will travel this fall to the Douglas, Arizona area to offer their assistance during what the ranchers report to be the annual peak of criminal trespass activity. Ranch Rescue will join the ranchers in a &#8220;Neighborhood Watch&#8221; over the ranch properties to guard them against illegal activity and will assist the property owners in lawful apprehension of criminal trespassers. *Trespassers so apprehended will be lawfully detained for immediate turnover to law enforcement*.


According to the group&#8217;s Volunteer Coordinator and co-founder Jack Foote, &#8220;We are a group of Texas ranchers and other folks dedicated to preserving and defending the private property rights of individual citizens. We are appalled by the utter lack of effective action on this issue by the Arizona governor and the federal government. Whatever the state and federal authorities have been doing for the past 2 years, it has just simply not worked. 


The number of criminal trespassers in the Douglas, Arizona area has increased, not decreased. To us, this is no longer an immigration issue, it is a* mass criminal activity issue*&#8230; The ranchers in Douglas are in need of helping hands, so we are going to provide them with ours.&#8221;


Ranch Rescue is based in Arlington, Texas and their website is at ranchrescue.com .


The group&#8217;s Volunteer Coordinator can be reached at volunteer@ranchrescue.com.


The Public Affairs Office can be contacted by the media at publicaffairs@ranchrescue.com.


----------



## Ernie S.

Odds are that SCOTUS will reverse this decision. The 9th Circuit was reversed in eight of the last 10 cases reviewed.


----------



## FifthColumn

LilOlLady said:


> *RICO -- Citizen Recourse*
> Private persons and entities may initiate civil suits to obtain injunctions and treble damages against enterprises that conspire to or actually violate federal alien smuggling, harboring, or document fraud statutes, under the Racketeer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO). The pattern of racketeering activity is defined as commission of two or more of the listed crimes. A RICO enterprise can be any individual legal entity, or a group of individuals who are not a legal entity but are associated in fact, AND CAN INCLUDE NONPROFIT ASSOCIATIONS.


 
There goes the Catholic Church now run by Latin American invasion forces!


----------



## LilOlLady

Illegal Immigrants Cartoons and Comics

Illegal Immigrants Cartoons and Comics


illegal aliens cartoons - Google Search


----------



## LilOlLady

*NO PERSON IS ILLEGAL*

*We are not illegal We are human beings  We are not criminals
Poverty is not excuse of stealing
If you are not in this country legally you are in this country illegally and you are illegal.*

They claim to be human beings but their action state they are lower forms of human beings. They steal into the country under the radar in the dead of night to escape detention by US border patrols, steal jobs from Americans by lying. Then they steal healthcare, education for their children. Stealing the American Dream from us and our children. And they teach their children to lie and steal by their lying and stealing. If they were Americans citizens they would be in jail for theft and that make them criminals. Entering this county illegally is a federal crime.

If they want to be treated like human beings, then they should act like human being and enter this country legally waiting their turns in line. When they break in line in front of those playing by the rules, they are cheating someone in line of their chance at legally entering the country.

When they live and steal they are breaking two of GODs commandments and are destined to hell forever. Remember Ananias? 

The man that stole a loaf of bread from the convenient store with his child because she was hungry and he was sent to jail separating him from his child who had no choice in her father robbery. In jail he will be treated less than human and when he get out of jail, he will lose certain civil liberties like voting and section 8 housing. Thus punishing the child even more.

At the same time illegal aliens can enter this country with a child to make a better life for him and he is welcome and rewarded with a path to citizenship after a minimum fine. Eventually given the right to vote and section 8 housing. And all his criminal activities wiped of his record. Three million of theses criminals were excused and pardoned with amnesty in 1986. The biggest jail break assisted by the government ever in history with tax payers money. Now our government want to do the same again for 20 million. A gift from the american tax payers. They did not pay a fine. We paid it for them. We can pardon 23 million illegal aliens but not Americans citizen even after they have paid for their crimes with jail time. Is there a double standard here for Americans and ilegals? They very word amnesty means a pardon and a pardon usually mean a crime has been committed. Illegal aliens given amnesty in 1986 were criminals.

Then they are rewarded while still criminals by giving their American born children automatic citizenship with all the benefits of children born to american citizens. 
When is this nightmare of injustices going to end? With the second coming of CHRIST?

------------------------------------------------------
*"Poverty is nor an excuse to steal."*


----------



## Anachronism

LilOlLady said:


> When is this nightmare of injustices going to end? With the second coming of CHRIST?



This will end WHEN and only IF the American Citizenry stands up as one and DEMANDS that it end. It cannot be a Right or a Left issue. It cannot be Democrats or Republicans, Conservatives or Liberals. It will ONLY ever end when all sides are willing to stand together and to do the difficult things that will be necessary in order to fix the problem.

If you want proof of that, I will give you the Native Americans. A loosely connected group of tribes, unwilling to put their own differences aside long enough to fight their common ENEMY who was bent on conquest..... US. They lost because they allowed us to get a foothold here on the continent and then refused to band together to drive us off. Just like we are doing right now with the illegal immigrants coming into this country from a myriad of places. 

Want further proof.... look at the clans in Ireland and Scotland when the English invaded both of those countries.


----------



## FifthColumn

LilOlLady said:


> The biggest jail break assisted by the government ever in history with tax payers money.*."*


 
Sad, but true!


----------



## LilOlLady

Why can't we band together and protest for our immigration laws be enforced, our borders secure and illegal aliens deported? I am a diehard democrat in a wheelchair and I would be willing to take part and have taken part in small protest here in Nevada.


----------



## signelect

Anachronism (sp) is right.  We are the only country that I know have that allow this to happen.  I regret that your country does not treat you well or offer you opportunity but you need to take your country back not take mine over.  Over 300 years ago we were being abused by the ruling government so we took it away from them and started over and have done very well until recently.  Those of you who are here illegally go home and work on your own country and leave my alone.


----------



## Mad Scientist

No person is illegal but their immigration status *can be*.


----------



## High_Gravity

The Russians and Chinese would be throwing these illegals the fuck out and not care what anyone thinks.


----------



## Angelhair

_Okay, no problem - you ARE human but if in the USA without permission, you ARE an ILLEGAL HUMAN!_


----------



## editec

Hye if we have to put up with people telling us that no amount of greed is too much, then you pretty much have no choice but to accept that THEFT must be okay, too.


----------



## FifthColumn

signelect said:


> Anachronism (sp) is right. We are the only country that I know have that allow this to happen. I regret that your country does not treat you well or offer you opportunity but you need to take your country back not take mine over. Over 300 years ago we were being abused by the ruling government so we took it away from them and started over and have done very well until recently. Those of you who are here illegally go home and work on your own country and leave my alone.


 
Correction........Pre WW2 Germany allowed a small group of gangsters to take over the country and destroy it.


----------



## whitehall

We have dope coming in the Country on the backs of criminals, potential terrorists from all over the globe have access to our borders and the left wants to play semantics. Yeah, people aren't illegal but their conduct is.


----------



## Harry Dresden

High_Gravity said:


> The Russians and Chinese would be throwing these illegals the fuck out and not care what anyone thinks.



so would the Mexican Govt.....


----------



## Provocateur

Human Beings are the ones that engage in illegal behavior.  Unless there is some law on the books regarding illegal behavior of livestock of which I am unaware.


----------



## Terral

Hi Lady:

Thank you for staying on the ball with this 'hiring' of illegal aliens problem we have here in the USA and the developed world. The corrupt US govt allows millions and millions and millions of foreign nationals to just come in and take over the place, then people wonder why US Citizens lose jobs, go bankrupt, go into foreclosure, run out of benefits to find themselves camping out in tents on the side of the road. Some of my fellow Americans have slept under the stars in tents and under plastic and under a box or in a dumpster so another American can make a little bit more money by hiring an illegal alien for half the price. 

Then the corrupt politicians tax you to death, so you cannot compete with their illegals paying no taxes and getting benefits from the govt at the same time. While I a grateful that the Lord our God has held the son of man in His Almighty Hand and blessed me, I weep dearly for my brothers and sisters that live in poverty so all the wealth on God's green earth can go to a very few. The people doing this to you have names like Rothschild ....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkhss0IDhZc]Zionism Is Front Run By Rothschild[/ame]

.... and Rockefeller and the Global Banking Cartel that cons sovereign peoples into gracing Rothschild the authority to print all the money. That is *Reason #1 that the USA will be destroyed* (my topic). Anyway, thank you again for writing on this topic. 



LilOlLady said:


> *NO PERSON IS ILLEGAL*



Each time these open border lobby advocates tried to con you with this line, then give him the 'coming out of the bank with money' story. Some people come out the the bank with money 'legal' and sometimes somebody robs the place; and these illegals are coming in the back door. The problem is still with the 'hiring' and that is policed at the workplace. Obama is an illegal alien himself and most everyone knows it, but America is not America anymore.



LilOlLady said:


> *&#8220;We are not illegal&#8221; &#8220;We are human beings&#8221;  *


Being legal has nothing to do with being human or inhuman. You broke the law when you came to my country illegally. Then you took a job from one of my fellow Americans and took bread out of the mouths his children.There is a place in this world where you belong and where you are a citizen and if someone goes to your country and takes the job of your family, then I feel pity for them too. The free economy only works if everyone plays on a level playing field. That means I compete for a job with another American who has kids in school and insurance to pay and a house payment and health insurance and, well, you get my drift. If ten illegal aliens live down the street and they take my job under the table-because my boss would like to make some extra money-then they pay no taxes and have no insurance and have no bills at all.


LilOlLady said:


> *&#8220;We are not criminals&#8221;*


The only reason you are not a convicted criminal is because our govt is more corrupt than you. The laws say you are a criminal, but nobody is enforcing the statutes from the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (link). We have been through all of this 'making them legal' open border lobby NONSENSE before in the mid 1980's and more than a million illegals were made legal, under the stipulation before God and all His witnesses that we would NEVER go through this again. All sides agreed and we have 20 million illegals stealing identities and jobs from my fellow Americans.They do not let me enforce the laws around here, but I would skin the people alive who are 'hiring' the illegals and my kingdom would not have this problem. ;0)





LilOlLady said:


> *&#8220;Poverty is not excuse of stealing&#8221;
> 
> If you are not in this country legally you are in this country illegally and you are illegal.*



Amen!



LilOlLady said:


> They Proclaim to be &#8220;human beings&#8221; but their action state they are lower forms of human beings. They steal into the country under the radar in the dead of night to escape detention by US border patrols, steal jobs from Americans by lying.



The economic disparity between Mexico and the USA creates this problem, but 'law enforcement' should be 'enforcing' the law. Twenty Five US Citizens are killed by illegal aliens every day, which is 10,000 of my brothers every year and by people who are not even supposed to be here. I still put more blame on Law enforcement that 'The People' should require and demand do their job.



LilOlLady said:


> Then they steal healthcare, education for their children. Stealing the American Dream from us and our children.



We are so much on the same page. The American Dream died with a corrupt Government that serves a privately-owned and corrupt Federal Reserve that has siphoned off your wealth and your dignity. We are witnessing the implosion of the USA right before our eyes to third-world status. Very soon gas will be 5 to 10 dollars per gallon, a loaf of bread will be 4-5 bucks and twice that for a gallon of milk. When the trucks can no longer run, then the grocery stores will be without food. You are wise to get prepped for the crap to hit the fan. 



LilOlLady said:


> And they teach their children to lie and steal by their lying and stealing. If they were Americans citizens they would be in jail for theft and that make them criminals. Entering this county illegally is a federal crime.



Think about it Lady: If these illegals were 'just like' our corrupt politicians, they would be running the place like Obama. ;0) Americans are foolish for allowing this problem to get so out of hand. Corruption is everywhere.



LilOlLady said:


> If they want to be treated like human beings, then they should act like human being and enter this country legally waiting their turns in line.



We may disagree a little bit here. Again, illegal has nothing to do with humanity. The rights that you have as a citizen of the USA are only mentioned in the Constitution and Bill of Rights, when in reality they are granted by your Creator; and He is God of that illegal alien too. The corrupt politicians work with the corrupt employers and they bring in millions of foreign nationals to take our jobs 'legally,' THEN they refuse to enforce our immigration, employment and document fraud laws (to mention a few) and really start taking jobs from Americans. Illegals and the people hiring them are 'humans,' but engaging in illegal activities under the auspices of corrupt politicians and law non-enforcement officers. 



LilOlLady said:


> When they break in line in front of those playing by the rules, they are cheating someone in line of their chance at legally entering the country.



Our very survival means competition in a workplace that must be played by rules. If nobody is going to enforce the rules, then the system breaks and dreams are destroyed. Thanks again,

GL,

Terral


----------



## B. Kidd

editec said:


> Hye if we have to put up with people telling us that no amount of greed is too much, then you pretty much have no choice but to accept that THEFT must be okay, too.




Yes. This line of logic does justify robbin' banks.


----------



## Intense

Why are we Fighting Our Own Government on Immigration? Why is Our Government Aiding and Abetting?

Just so we are all on the same page here.


Aiding and Abetting/Accessory.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A criminal charge of aiding and abetting or accessory can usually be brought against anyone who helps in the commission of a crime, though legal distinctions vary by state. A person charged with aiding and abetting or accessory is usually not present when the crime itself is committed, but he or she has knowledge of the crime before or after the fact, and may assist in its commission through advice, actions, or financial support. Depending on the degree of involvement, the offender's participation in the crime may rise to the level of conspiracy. 

For example, Andy draws a floor plan of a bank, knowing of Dan's intention to rob it. After Dan commits the robbery, Alice agrees to let him store the stolen money at her house. Both Andy and Alice can be charged with aiding and abetting, or acting as accessories to the robbery.

Aiding and Abetting/Accessory - Criminal Law


----------



## LilOlLady

*Ariz. may require hospitals to check citizenship *
Proposal would require staff to contact immigration authorities 

The Associated Press  
updated 2/14/2011
PHOENIX  Arizona lawmakers are trying to widen the state's illegal immigration crackdown with a proposal to *require hospitals to confirm whether patients are in the country legally*. 


Ariz. may require hospitals to check citizenship - Health - Health care - msnbc.com



*
FREE MEDICAL RELIEF FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS*

Bush Administration Medical Plans


----------



## LilOlLady

Illegal aliens have been receiving free medical care in Arizona longer than the 60 years I can remember. Being from Pinal Country and have been in Tucson Medical Center ER and had to wait longer than expected because of ER being packed with illegals using ER as their primary physician. 
Here in Reno, I often visit ER because of Hyponatremia seizures and MS flare-ups, if I go into ER there is always 80% filled with illegals and if a gang shooting or stabbing occur it takes priority. Sometimes I have left and gone home and called paramedics which will get me into a room faster than going into ER. If I am admitted, I have to wait for a room sometimes more than a day lying on a hard bed in ER. Often treated in hallway of ER and never getting an ER room.
Checking citizenship status will open up medical care in ER for Americans. 
Eventually Arizona will get the job done and set a precedent for getting rid of illegals.
This is an injustice to the healthcare of Americans and need to stop. 
If a doctors is to moral to refuse to treat illegals, then he should open an office and treat them on his own time with his own money. I don&#8217;t know why doctors are complaining anyway, illegals that do not have a true emergency is weeded out before they get to see a doctor by medical staff. When I go into ER pre-medical testing is given before you see a doctor and if it is not a true emergency send them home and tell them to see their primary physician. Nurses are trained to make those decision.
Doctors bill is separate from the hospital bill and if they want to give free medical care to illegals, so be it. Doctor complain checking citizenship will cause delay. They check insurance for citizens?


----------



## ogibillm

seems like a great plain if your goal is to spread death and disease amongst illegal aliens.


----------



## LilOlLady

Where does Mexico's responsibility for it's peole began and mine end? I did not ask for these people so why should I pay for their anything. I don't mind taking care of my own people but that's as far as I am able to go. We have poor homeless hungry people and they should come first but they stand in line behind illegals and their chidren.
Withdraw benefits and services from illegals and their children and that will balance the budget in many state and federal government to pay down the deficit also.
Too many hospitals have gone bankrupt or closed their emergency rooms becasue of illegal aliens. Maybe they will all leave arizona now and look to other states for free medical. It not they cannot pay for medical, it's because they know they don't have to that they use er and most of the time is is week ends when doctor offices and clinics are closed that they fill ER. Our leaders keep sending them the message that they don't have to pay and cannot be refused treatment and they keep using ER.


----------



## uscitizen

Check citizenship give the emergency treatment and lock em up and send em home after getting genetic imprint.  If they show up again put em in jail for 30 days and send em home, if caught again 1 yr, etc.


----------



## Truthmatters

Hospitals are now going to be imigration centers?

This means people will die for lack of treatment.

Arizona has lost its mind


----------



## LilOlLady

Illegal Immigration Costs California Over Ten Billion AnnuallyState's "cheap labor" costs average household $1,183 a year 
By Robert Longley, About.com Guide
.Dateline: December, 2004
In hosting America's largest population of illegal immigrants, California bears a huge cost to provide basic human services for this fast growing, low-income segment of its population. A new study from the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) examines the costs of *education, health care and incarceration *of illegal aliens, and concludes that the costs to Californians is *$10.5 billion per year*.

Illegal Immigration Costs California $10.5 Billion Annually
*
This was in 2004 and I have to wonder what California's budget was then? That have to take a big plug out of services for American citizens. It's no wonder Calif in in the hole and cannot dig it self out.
IF Calif is in a hole, then the rest of the country must be in a hole also. *


----------



## LilOlLady

U.S.
*Illegal Immigration Costs U.S. $113 Billion a Year, Study Finds*
By Ed Barnes

Published July 06, 2010
| FoxNews.com
FoxNews.com - Illegal Immigration Costs U.S. $113 Billion a Year, Study Finds


----------



## FifthColumn

Truthmatters said:


> Hospitals are now going to be imigration centers?
> 
> This means people will die for lack of treatment.
> 
> Arizona has lost its mind


 
Why don't you start paying their bill?


----------



## hobeco

Another stupid attempt by my State to do something about illegal immigration that is not going to work. How do you get people to prove that they are in the Country legally? The average citizen stopped on the street by a policeman is unable to do so! Drivers license? Social Security card? No problem. Illegal immigrants buy them for $10 on any street corner where the Hispanic population is paramount. How many of us carry a passport with us every day? And who will reimburse the hospitals for the extra cost involved in checking everyone's status? Of course hospitals MUST provide the service by federal law so, once again they are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. Solution? The hospital worker will ask the patient: Are you a legal resident? The patient will say Yes or Si whatever the case will be and the hospital will have complied with the law. Case closed.


----------



## Angelhair

_No!  AZ will HAVE to treat them as it's by FEDERAL LAW!!!  What they CAN do is ask for their legality!!!  It's a CONFIRMATION NOT a death sentence.  My question is:  Are they sending the medical bills to Mexico????   Yeah, right!_


----------



## Claudette

No wonder they are bankrupt.


----------



## LilOlLady

*It's time to close birthright citizenship loophole*
Sen. David Vitter

February 15, 2011

*Americas illegal immigration problem is out of control*. To change this, we must better protect our borders, particularly the Mexican border, and ensure that only citizens and those in our country legally can be hired for jobs.

Another change we must make is to stop babies born in this country to two illegal immigrant parents from automatically becoming U.S. citizens as they do now; this happens *more than 300,000 to 400,000 times in the U.S. every year*. This is just flat wrong, and it serves as *a magnet to attract more and more adults into our country illegally*.

I recently introduced legislation so that a person born in the United States to illegal aliens does not automatically gain citizenship *unless at least one parent is a legal citizen *(including naturalized citizens), legal immigrant, or active member of the Armed Forces. Closing this loophole will not prevent anyone from becoming a citizen. What it will do is ensure that he or she has to go through the same process as anyone else born of foreign parents who wants to become an American citizen.

I dont believe that the 14th Amendment to our Constitution grants birthright citizenship to the children of illegal immigrants. In fact, all we have to do is use history as our guide. It reminds us that this amendment was *specifically designed *to address the horrible injustice of slavery  not to grant citizenship to children of people living in our country illegally.

Therefore, my goal is to make sure that our 14th Amendment is not stretched to allow a person born in the United States to illegal aliens to automatically gain citizenship. I want to *bring the 14th Amendment back to what its drafters intended * nothing more and nothing less.

Please let me know about any issues of importance to you and your family by contacting me at any of my state offices or in my Washington office by mail at U.S. Senator David Vitter, U.S. Senate, 516 Hart Senate Office Building, Washington, D.C. 20510, or by phone at 202-224-4623. You can also reach me on the web at vitter.senate.gov.

*David Vitter is a U.S. Senator from Louisiana and the chairman of the U.S. Senate Border Security and Enforcement First Immigration Caucus*.

The Natchez Democrat - It's time to close birthright citizenship loophole


----------



## Comrade Ishmael

I agree.

Send all the honkeys back to Europe.

For evidence why this is necessary, I submit all the racial violence of the past 200 years.


----------



## LilOlLady

Comrade Ishmael said:


> I agree.
> 
> Send all the honkeys back to Europe.
> 
> For evidence why this is necessary, I submit all the racial violence of the past 200 years.



The "honkies" entered this country when we had not immigration laws or registered though Ellis Island. Illegal aliens sneaked across the border undetected scampering like desert rats to avoid registering and being returned home. That was then and this is now and we are not into building america but in survival of America. Being Native American, I do not like what happened to the Natives but that was then and this is now and all america and americans are in danger of extinction because of uncontrolled immigration.
Illegal aliens are not immigrants either, they are criminals under the radar. We cannot keep making the same mistake over and over. We cannot do anything about the last 200 years but we can do something about the atrocities that is cause by illegal aliens. 
Call me a racist, zenophobic I don't give a bucket of S***. I will never stop fighting to end illegal immigration.


----------



## LilOlLady

The 14th Amendment still apply to children born to parents where at least one is a citizen. Immigrant who become citizens, their children are born american citizens. It is insane to give citizenship to anyone that just happens to be born is this country and that was never the intention of our founding fathers. 
"Under the jusrisdiction" was not inserted in the clause to be ignored. It has been ignored and time it it recognizes as to what it really means.
Getting illegal immigration under control depends almost solely on repealing the automatic birthright clause to exclude children of illegal aliens. repealing it would change everything about illegal immigration. I would be infavor on retroactive to reverse automatic birthright citizenship. Null and void it.


----------



## LilOlLady

The key to undoing the current misinterpretation of the Fourteenth Amendment 
is this odd phrase 

"and *subject to the jurisdiction thereof*." 

The whole problem is caused by the fact that the meaning of this phrase, 
which was clear to anyone versed in legal language in 1868, 
has slipped with changes in usage. 
Fortunately, there is a* large group of court precedents *that make clear what the phrase actually means: 

1.The Fourteenth Amendment excludes the children of aliens. 
(The Slaughterhouse Cases (83 U.S. 36 (1873)) 

2.The Fourteenth Amendment draws a distinction 
between the children of aliens and children of citizens. 
(Minor v. Happersett (88 U.S. 162 (1874))

3.The phrase "subject to the jurisdiction" 
requires "direct and immediate allegiance" to the United States, 
not just physical presence. 
(Elk v. Wilkins 112 U.S. 94 (1884)) 

4.There is no automatic birthright citizenship in a particular case. 
(Wong Kim Ark Case, 169 U.S. 649 (1898)) 

5.The Supreme Court has never confirmed birthright citizenship 
for the children of illegal aliens, temporary workers, and tourists. 
(Plyler v. Doe, 457 U.S. 202, 211 n.10 (1982)) 

There are other cases referring to minor details of the question. 

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100424155950AA9Dv2B



*
If this ever gets to the Supreme Court it will have to be overturned. The precedents have already been set.*


----------



## Cecilie1200

Comrade Ishmael said:


> I agree.
> 
> Send all the honkeys back to Europe.
> 
> For evidence why this is necessary, I submit all the racial violence of the past 200 years.



I can't decide if you're just generally an idiot, or only one on the specific subject of *illegal *immigration, which seems to be a concept beyond your grasp.


----------



## Cecilie1200

LilOlLady said:


> The 14th Amendment still apply to children born to parents where at least one is a citizen. Immigrant who become citizens, their children are born american citizens. It is insane to give citizenship to anyone that just happens to be born is this country and that was never the intention of our founding fathers.
> "Under the jusrisdiction" was not inserted in the clause to be ignored. It has been ignored and time it it recognizes as to what it really means.
> Getting illegal immigration under control depends almost solely on repealing the automatic birthright clause to exclude children of illegal aliens. repealing it would change everything about illegal immigration. I would be infavor on retroactive to reverse automatic birthright citizenship. Null and void it.



Unfortunately, I believe the government is prohibited from making laws that are retroactive, and it would be a terrible precedent to set.

Otherwise, I'd say you're absolutely correct.  We have no business rewarding people for flouting our laws and our national sovereignty.


----------



## gekaap

The "under the jurisdiction" phrase in the 14th amendment does not refer to legal status of the parents.  The SCOTUS has been crystal clear on this.  Anyone present in the US is "under the jurisdiction" of the US.  If they commit a murder, they are subject to the jurisdiction of the US and its laws regardless of whether they are here illegally or not.  Thus, this is a non issue under the constitution.  Any statute attempting to make birthright citizenship more narrow would be flatly unconstitutional.

The only way to narrow the availability of citizenship at birth will be to amend the constitution.  And even though that is difficult, it must be done.  It must be pursued, even if it takes several years to finally be ratified, because our nation desperately needs it.  A proposed constitutional amendment need not be ratified by the requisite 3/4 of the state legislatures overnight.  The ratification process can, and historically has at times, take several years.  If the closed borders crowd of politicians were smart, they would use this to their advantage.  The composition of state legislatures can change considerably over a 10 year period.  A state that might not at this moment ratify such an amendment might all to readily ratify it after the next election.


----------



## AVG-JOE

LilOlLady said:


> *It's time to close birthright citizenship loophole*
> Sen. David Vitter
> 
> February 15, 2011
> 
> *America&#8217;s illegal immigration problem is out of control*. To change this, we must better protect our borders, particularly the Mexican border, and ensure that only citizens and those in our country legally can be hired for jobs.
> 
> Another change we must make is to stop babies born in this country to two illegal immigrant parents from automatically becoming U.S. citizens as they do now; this happens *more than 300,000 to 400,000 times in the U.S. every year*. This is just flat wrong, and it serves as *a magnet to attract more and more adults into our country illegally*.
> 
> *I recently introduced legislation so that a person born in the United States to illegal aliens does not automatically gain citizenship unless at least one parent is a legal citizen (including naturalized citizens), legal immigrant, or active member of the Armed Forces. Closing this loophole will not prevent anyone from becoming a citizen. What it will do is ensure that he or she has to go through the same process as anyone else born of foreign parents who wants to become an American citizen.
> *
> I don&#8217;t believe that the 14th Amendment to our Constitution grants birthright citizenship to the children of illegal immigrants. In fact, all we have to do is use history as our guide. It reminds us that this amendment was *specifically designed *to address the horrible injustice of slavery &#8212; not to grant citizenship to children of people living in our country illegally.
> 
> Therefore, my goal is to make sure that our 14th Amendment is not stretched to allow a person born in the United States to illegal aliens to automatically gain citizenship. I want to *bring the 14th Amendment back to what its drafters intended *&#8212; nothing more and nothing less.
> 
> Please let me know about any issues of importance to you and your family by contacting me at any of my state offices or in my Washington office by mail at U.S. Senator David Vitter, U.S. Senate, 516 Hart Senate Office Building, Washington, D.C. 20510, or by phone at 202-224-4623. You can also reach me on the web at vitter.senate.gov.
> 
> *David Vitter is a U.S. Senator from Louisiana and the chairman of the U.S. Senate Border Security and Enforcement First Immigration Caucus*.
> 
> The Natchez Democrat - It's time to close birthright citizenship loophole



What about the next generation?  What do we do with a child born in a US hospital to 2 people who were also born here but are "not quite American"?


----------



## AVG-JOE

LilOlLady said:


> Comrade Ishmael said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree.
> 
> Send all the honkeys back to Europe.
> 
> For evidence why this is necessary, I submit all the racial violence of the past 200 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The "honkies" entered this country when we had not immigration laws or registered though Ellis Island. Illegal aliens sneaked across the border undetected scampering like desert rats to avoid registering and being returned home. That was then and this is now and we are not into building america but in survival of America. Being Native American, I do not like what happened to the Natives but that was then and this is now and all america and americans are in danger of extinction because of uncontrolled immigration.
> Illegal aliens are not immigrants either, they are criminals under the radar. We cannot keep making the same mistake over and over. We cannot do anything about the last 200 years but we can do something about the atrocities that is cause by illegal aliens.
> Call me a racist, zenophobic I don't give a bucket of S***. I will never stop fighting to end illegal immigration.
Click to expand...


Two and only two kinds of Americans.


----------



## LilOlLady

*U.|S. Agents Are Shot, One Killed, In Mexico *
FEBRUARY 16, 2011.U.S. 
 By JOSé DE CóRDOBA And DAVID LUHNOW

MEXICO CITYAn agent for the* U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency *was shot and killed and another agent wounded by unknown gunmen in central Mexico on Tuesday, according to U.S. officials. 
Pulso Newspaper, San Luis Potosi, Mexico

The car driven by the two ICE agents who were shot on the road to Mexico City.
The men were driving from Mexico City to Monterrey in the central state of San Luis Potosi when they were attacked. U.S. officials condemned the attack and said they would work with Mexican counterparts to bring the assailants to justice. 

"Let me be clear: *any act of violence against our ICE personnelis an attack against all those who serve our nation and put their lives at risk for our safety,"* Department of Homeland Security Secretary *Janet Napolitano *said in a statement. 

U.S. Immigration Agents Shot in Mexico - WSJ.com


----------



## LilOlLady

Mexican Murder Mystery: Three Americans Dead in Last Three Weeks
February 15, 2011  
Posted by Armen Keteyian  

A view of the city of San Miguel de Allende, where three Americans were killed in the last three weeks.
(Credit: AP Photo/Marco Ugarte) Written by Chief Investigative Correspondent Armen Keteyian and CBS Investigates Intern Vivian Giang

For decades the city of San Miguel de Allende, nestled along the mountainous region of Central Mexico, has attracted scores of Americans, Canadians and Europeans seeking to retire in the mild climate and tranquil, culturally-rich region. 

But in just the past three weeks, the safe haven community - known for its low crime rates - has been shattered by the *unsolved murders *of three Americans.

Mexican Murder Mystery: Three Americans Dead in Last Three Weeks - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

*So much for "violence is down" stated by Arizona border city mayors.*


----------



## BrianH

Saw this today when it made news.  I read a Fox article that actually made the statement that it's quite unusual for American officials to be targeted in Mexico....  They're in Denial.


----------



## Bosun

mexico is safe, unless one is against the cartel...  we will have some problems, most from our own politically correctors..


----------



## BrianH

Bosun said:


> mexico is safe, unless one is against the cartel...  we will have some problems, most from our own politically correctors..



I fear the time is coming where it's really going to spill over the border.  It already is to a degree, but remains uncovered by the media.  For some reason they don't want to let everyone know how unsafe it is in the South.  But I worry that there will be a day where there will be war in the streets of the southern states like Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California.  There really already is on the border cities, but I'm betting it'll move further into the states if something drastic isn't done soon.


----------



## ronaldodm123

There really already is on the border cities, but I'm betting it'll move further into the states if something drastic isn't done soon.


----------



## FifthColumn

AVG-JOE said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *It's time to close birthright citizenship loophole*
> Sen. David Vitter
> 
> February 15, 2011
> 
> *Americas illegal immigration problem is out of control*. To change this, we must better protect our borders, particularly the Mexican border, and ensure that only citizens and those in our country legally can be hired for jobs.
> 
> Another change we must make is to stop babies born in this country to two illegal immigrant parents from automatically becoming U.S. citizens as they do now; this happens *more than 300,000 to 400,000 times in the U.S. every year*. This is just flat wrong, and it serves as *a magnet to attract more and more adults into our country illegally*.
> 
> *I recently introduced legislation so that a person born in the United States to illegal aliens does not automatically gain citizenship unless at least one parent is a legal citizen (including naturalized citizens), legal immigrant, or active member of the Armed Forces. Closing this loophole will not prevent anyone from becoming a citizen. What it will do is ensure that he or she has to go through the same process as anyone else born of foreign parents who wants to become an American citizen.*
> 
> I dont believe that the 14th Amendment to our Constitution grants birthright citizenship to the children of illegal immigrants. In fact, all we have to do is use history as our guide. It reminds us that this amendment was *specifically designed *to address the horrible injustice of slavery  not to grant citizenship to children of people living in our country illegally.
> 
> Therefore, my goal is to make sure that our 14th Amendment is not stretched to allow a person born in the United States to illegal aliens to automatically gain citizenship. I want to *bring the 14th Amendment back to what its drafters intended * nothing more and nothing less.
> 
> Please let me know about any issues of importance to you and your family by contacting me at any of my state offices or in my Washington office by mail at U.S. Senator David Vitter, U.S. Senate, 516 Hart Senate Office Building, Washington, D.C. 20510, or by phone at 202-224-4623. You can also reach me on the web at vitter.senate.gov.
> 
> *David Vitter is a U.S. Senator from Louisiana and the chairman of the U.S. Senate Border Security and Enforcement First Immigration Caucus*.
> 
> The Natchez Democrat - It's time to close birthright citizenship loophole
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about the next generation? What do we do with a child born in a US hospital to 2 people who were also born here but are "not quite American"?
Click to expand...

 
Are you willing to let the future of American be decided by third world helper monkeys who forced their way into the US over the graves of American GIs?


----------



## FifthColumn

LilOlLady said:


> "Let me be clear: *any act of violence against our ICE personnelis an attack against all those who serve our nation and put their lives at risk for our safety,"* Department of Homeland Security Secretary *Janet Napolitano *said in a statement.


 
CORRECTION: Any act of violence against a US American from a person who is from Latin America is an attack on all US Americans and deserves the proper punitive action against his country of origin.


----------



## editec

*U.|S. Agents Are Shot, One Killed, In Mexico *


Yeah well that'll happen from time to time when we send our agents into harm's way.


----------



## AmericanFirst

Truthmatters said:


> Hospitals are now going to be imigration centers?
> 
> This means people will die for lack of treatment.
> 
> Arizona has lost its mind


Go Arizona. Illegals do not have the right to free medical care in the U.S. Go back to Mex. and get care. Lets stop feeling sorry for them, they are ILLEGAL!!!


----------



## WillowTree

editec said:


> *U.|S. Agents Are Shot, One Killed, In Mexico *
> 
> 
> Yeah well that'll happen from time to time when we send our agents into harm's way.



harms way? what the fuck you say? harm's way????? just a few months ago obie wan's wifey said it was perfectly safe to go to Mexico. Guess she don't know her ass from a whole in the ground.. ohhhh,,,,,errrrr, I guess it would be safe for her wouldn't it?


----------



## JWBooth

Monterrey?
As in Mexico?
As in a US Government agent operating in a dangerous area OUTSIDE of US borders?

This is truly a tragedy for his friends and family, but it does not cross the threshold of hyperbolic outrage.


----------



## Ravi

So if someone arrives at the hospital with meningitis or some other deadly communicable disease the hospital will be required to check their immigration status before treating them?

How retarded. The State of Arizona should be disbanded as a menace to society.


----------



## editec

WillowTree said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> *U.|S. Agents Are Shot, One Killed, In Mexico *
> 
> 
> Yeah well that'll happen from time to time when we send our agents into harm's way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harms way? what the fuck you say? harm's way????? just a few months ago obie wan's wifey said it was perfectly safe to go to Mexico. Guess she don't know her ass from a whole in the ground.. ohhhh,,,,,errrrr, I guess it would be safe for her wouldn't it?
Click to expand...

 
Now honestly why do you think I would care what the first lady says or does not say?

Do you imagine that I am a big supporter of her or her husband?

Here's a clue for ya'...  there's more than two POVs in this world, WT


----------



## WillowTree

editec said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> *U.|S. Agents Are Shot, One Killed, In Mexico *
> 
> 
> Yeah well that'll happen from time to time when we send our agents into harm's way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harms way? what the fuck you say? harm's way????? just a few months ago obie wan's wifey said it was perfectly safe to go to Mexico. Guess she don't know her ass from a whole in the ground.. ohhhh,,,,,errrrr, I guess it would be safe for her wouldn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now honestly why do you think I would care what the first lady says or does not say?
> 
> Do you imagine that I am a big supporter of her or her husband?
> 
> Here's a clue for ya'...  there's more than two POVs in this world, WT
Click to expand...





sarcasam son, sarcasam,, secondly isn't Mexico supposed to be our friend? and if so why would sending a border agent down to Mexico be sending him to "harms way" should we scratch mexico off the friends list?


----------



## Bosun

BrianH said:


> Bosun said:
> 
> 
> 
> mexico is safe, unless one is against the cartel...  we will have some problems, most from our own politically correctors..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I fear the time is coming where it's really going to spill over the border.  It already is to a degree, but remains uncovered by the media.  For some reason they don't want to let everyone know how unsafe it is in the South.  But I worry that there will be a day where there will be war in the streets of the southern states like Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California.  There really already is on the border cities, but I'm betting it'll move further into the states if something drastic isn't done soon.
Click to expand...

It already has spilled across the border... only it will get much worse.... but, on the otherhand Janet "Big Sis" thinks things are OK.  She was pissed off about the ice agent being killed.   It kind of contradicts her idealogy...


----------



## Bosun

FifthColumn said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Let me be clear: *any act of violence against our ICE personnelis an attack against all those who serve our nation and put their lives at risk for our safety,"* Department of Homeland Security Secretary *Janet Napolitano *said in a statement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CORRECTION: Any act of violence against a US American from a person who is from Latin America is an attack on all US Americans and deserves the proper punitive action against his country of origin.
Click to expand...


latin americans were here first... in their country bro.... why was ice in their country bro.....


----------



## LilOlLady

BrianH said:


> Bosun said:
> 
> 
> 
> mexico is safe, unless one is against the cartel...  we will have some problems, most from our own politically correctors..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I fear the time is coming where it's really going to spill over the border.  It already is to a degree, but remains uncovered by the media.  For some reason they don't want to let everyone know how unsafe it is in the South.  But I worry that there will be a day where there will be war in the streets of the southern states like Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California.  There really already is on the border cities, but I'm betting it'll move further into the states if something drastic isn't done soon.
Click to expand...


when drugs are being smuggled across the border is has already spilled over. Most of the news is about drug smuggling by illegals crossing the border. Drug violence and gangs on our streets are not about violence from across the border. We are at war with MS13 who are dealers in drugs. Have you heard of the drug violence in phoenix? That is what all the roaring is about in Arizona.

Drug related violence is in every state in this country and 90% of all our drugs come across the souther border. When we fight drugs on the streets of our cities we are fighting drug cartels. When we stop guns and money from crossing into Mexico, we are fighting drugs cartels.


----------



## Angelhair

_What the hell are we doing sending our agents  into that God forsaken country???  They can't even protect their own people much less ours!!!  Get the hell out of Mexico and let is SINK!!!  It's a stink hole anyway - always has been; always will be!_


----------



## LilOlLady

Bosun said:


> FifthColumn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Let me be clear: *any act of violence against our ICE personnelis an attack against all those who serve our nation and put their lives at risk for our safety,"* Department of Homeland Security Secretary *Janet Napolitano *said in a statement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CORRECTION: Any act of violence against a US American from a person who is from Latin America is an attack on all US Americans and deserves the proper punitive action against his country of origin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *latin americans were here first*... in their country bro.... why was ice in their country bro.....
Click to expand...


Before who? Make up your mind, is this their country or is mexico their country. Those mexican that were born in Mexico are citizens of Mexico. They lost part of the US when they sold it for $13 million. Now the want to reclaim it? There are Mexican American that are in this country for generatiions but that does not give all Mexicans every where the right to be here. Afro-American have no claim on African because their descendent were from Africa?


----------



## gekaap

Ravi said:


> So if someone arrives at the hospital with meningitis or some other deadly communicable disease the hospital will be required to check their immigration status before treating them?
> 
> How retarded. The State of Arizona should be disbanded as a menace to society.



Nobody said that any citizenship check would be before treatment would be rendered.  Although nothing here mentions "when," in all likelihood it would be bundled in with collecting insurance information.  I.E. when time permits, and not yet if immediate treatment is necessary for the welfare of the patient.  In theory, I don't have a major problem with this.  In practice, I worry that it might dissuade illegal immigrants from going to the hospital, which could possibly create a danger to the public because serious infections could spread when people avoid treatment in an effort to avoid punishment for their illegal status.  But, if the people of AZ are willing to accept that risk, then by all means go for it.


----------



## syrenn

Truthmatters said:


> Hospitals are now going to be imigration centers?
> 
> This means people will die for lack of treatment.
> 
> Arizona has lost its mind




Tough, they can go HOME for treatment.


----------



## syrenn

Ravi said:


> So if someone arrives at the hospital with meningitis or some other deadly communicable disease the hospital will be required to check their immigration status before treating them?
> 
> How retarded. The State of Arizona should be disbanded as a menace to society.



Treat with minimal, stabilize and ship them home.


----------



## Montrovant

I wish the article told us what the ICE agents were doing in Mexico.  Were they in the middle of an official action of some sort?  Had they completed some kind of investigation, or were they on the way to begin one?  Is it possible they were there as private citizens rather than agents of the US government?  I'm not looking for some reason to excuse their attackers, but I am curious if there is any reason to believe this was a targeted attack or not.


----------



## Comrade Ishmael

Cecilie1200 said:


> Comrade Ishmael said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree.
> 
> Send all the honkeys back to Europe.
> 
> For evidence why this is necessary, I submit all the racial violence of the past 200 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't decide if you're just generally an idiot, or only one on the specific subject of *illegal *immigration, which seems to be a concept beyond your grasp.
Click to expand...


If you ask a Native American, I think they would argue we came here illegitimately... which is really the same as illegally. The only difference is formal codification.

The only idiots are people who feel threatened by Mexican immigrants (legal or illegal). What? Afraid someone will say a Spanish word around you? The horror.


----------



## Nate

Comrade Ishmael said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Ishmael said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree.
> 
> Send all the honkeys back to Europe.
> 
> For evidence why this is necessary, I submit all the racial violence of the past 200 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't decide if you're just generally an idiot, or only one on the specific subject of *illegal *immigration, which seems to be a concept beyond your grasp.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you ask a Native American, I think they would argue we came here illegitimately... which is really the same as illegally. The only difference is formal codification.
> 
> The only idiots are people who feel threatened by Mexican immigrants (legal or illegal). What? Afraid someone will say a Spanish word around you? The horror.
Click to expand...


If that's the only reason you think we Americans are afraid of the *illegal* immigration problem then you certainly haven't been paying attention!! For starters they're exacerbating our economic problems and among many other things, *they are breaking the law* by entering our country!! We are taught from an early age to obey the law of the land, why should these illegals get to ignore the laws over entering our country?


----------



## FifthColumn

Comrade Ishmael said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Ishmael said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree.
> 
> Send all the honkeys back to Europe.
> 
> For evidence why this is necessary, I submit all the racial violence of the past 200 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't decide if you're just generally an idiot, or only one on the specific subject of *illegal *immigration, which seems to be a concept beyond your grasp.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you ask a Native American, I think they would argue we came here illegitimately... which is really the same as illegally. The only difference is formal codification.
> 
> The only idiots are people who feel threatened by Mexican immigrants (legal or illegal). What? Afraid someone will say a Spanish word around you? The horror.
Click to expand...

 
Wait until that is the only language spoken around you. 

And a Native American is a US citizen who has no allegiances to any other country. A person who can't be deported anywhere outside the US because he has no roots anywhere else. A person who is not a hyphenated American!


----------



## JamesInFlorida

hobeco said:


> Another stupid attempt by my State to do something about illegal immigration that is not going to work. How do you get people to prove that they are in the Country legally?* The average citizen stopped on the street by a policeman is unable to do so! Drivers license? Social Security card?* No problem. Illegal immigrants buy them for $10 on any street corner where the Hispanic population is paramount. How many of us carry a passport with us every day? And who will reimburse the hospitals for the extra cost involved in checking everyone's status? Of course hospitals MUST provide the service by federal law so, once again they are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. Solution? The hospital worker will ask the patient: Are you a legal resident? The patient will say Yes or Si whatever the case will be and the hospital will have complied with the law. Case closed.



Exactly. A driver's license is *NOT* proof of citizenship.


----------



## FifthColumn

Ravi said:


> So if someone arrives at the hospital with meningitis or some other deadly communicable disease the hospital will be required to check their immigration status before treating them?
> 
> How retarded. The State of Arizona should be disbanded as a menace to society.


 
If someone arrives at a hospital and cannot speak a word of English, have the security guards do a "Rodney King" on him until he's talking like a regular Lawrence Olivier!!


----------



## LilOlLady

Montrovant said:


> I wish the article told us *what the ICE agents were doing in Mexico.*  Were they in the middle of an official action of some sort?  Had they completed some kind of investigation, or were they on the way to begin one?  Is it possible they were there as private citizens rather than agents of the US government?  I'm not looking for some reason to excuse their attackers, but I am curious if there is any reason to believe this was a targeted attack or not.



Whatever they were doing in Mexico, you can bet they went in Mexico legally.


----------



## FifthColumn

Montrovant said:


> I wish the article told us what the ICE agents were doing in Mexico. .


 
Delivering ICE. What else.


----------



## LilOlLady

Montrovant said:


> I wish the article told us what the ICE agents were doing in Mexico.  Were they in the middle of an official action of some sort?  Had they completed some kind of investigation, or were they on the way to begin one?  Is it possible they were there as private citizens rather than agents of the US government?  I'm not looking for some reason to excuse their attackers, but I am curious if there is any reason to believe this was a targeted attack or not.



*ICE agent killed in Mexico was assigned to Laredo *© 2011 The Associated Press
Feb. 16, 2011, 12:23PM 

LAREDO, Texas  Authorities are vowing to capture those responsible for gunfire in Mexico that killed a U.S. agent assigned to Laredo and wounded another.

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement said Wednesday that Special Agent Jaime Zapata died a day earlier after assailants opened fire on an SUV carrying the agents from Monterrey to Mexico City.

The Associated Press, citing U.S. officials who weren't authorized to speak on the case, says the wounded agent is Victor Avila. He's stable after being shot twice in the leg. Avila is back in the United States.

*Both agents were working with ICE's attache office in Mexico City*.

Zapata was Brownsville native and 2005 graduate of the University of Texas at Brownsville who joined ICE in 2006. Zapata was a former Border Patrol agent in Yuma, Ariz.

ICE agent killed in Mexico was assigned to Laredo | AP Texas News | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle


----------



## Defiant1

I would think cash would work.


----------



## Bosun

LilOlLady said:


> Bosun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FifthColumn said:
> 
> 
> 
> CORRECTION: Any act of violence against a US American from a person who is from Latin America is an attack on all US Americans and deserves the proper punitive action against his country of origin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *latin americans were here first*... in their country bro.... why was ice in their country bro.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Before who? Make up your mind, is this their country or is mexico their country. Those mexican that were born in Mexico are citizens of Mexico. They lost part of the US when they sold it for $13 million. Now the want to reclaim it? There are Mexican American that are in this country for generatiions but that does not give all Mexicans every where the right to be here. Afro-American have no claim on African because their descendent were from Africa?
Click to expand...


i did not mean to urinate in your Wheaties, honest.   i was being sarcastic...  i do agree with you disertation....


----------



## Bosun

Angelhair said:


> _What the hell are we doing sending our agents  into that God forsaken country???  They can't even protect their own people much less ours!!!  Get the hell out of Mexico and let is SINK!!!  It's a stink hole anyway - always has been; always will be!_



expanding our influence? :eh:


----------



## LilOlLady

FifthColumn said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wish the article told us what the ICE agents were doing in Mexico. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delivering ICE. What else.
Click to expand...


One official said the victims, whose identities have not been released, were the first ICE agents to be gunned down in Mexico. According to ICE, the agency has *about 30 officers assigned to its office in Mexico City*. They work a range of issues including *drugs, weapons, currency and immigration.*Borderland Beat: Two ICE Agents Shot in Mexico.


----------



## Bosun

Montrovant said:


> I wish the article told us what the ICE agents were doing in Mexico.  Were they in the middle of an official action of some sort?  Had they completed some kind of investigation, or were they on the way to begin one?  Is it possible they were there as private citizens rather than agents of the US government?  I'm not looking for some reason to excuse their attackers, but I am curious if there is any reason to believe this was a targeted attack or not.


you did not have the need to know what they were doing...... but, the truth is out there, just not sure exactly where it is....


----------



## xsited1

LilOlLady said:


> FEBRUARY 16, 2011.U.S. Agents Are Shot, One Killed, In Mexico



He was probably killed with an American made weapon supplied by the ATF.


----------



## LilOlLady

Truthmatters said:


> Hospitals are now going to be imigration centers?
> 
> This means people will die for lack of treatment.
> 
> Arizona has lost its mind



When I, an American citizen, go into ER I have to show *SOCIAL SECURITY CARD, PICTURE IDENTIFICATION AND PROOF OF MEDICAL COVERAGE. *Why should illegal aliens be treated differfently? They will have none of the above and that is *REASONABLE SUSPICION* that they are in the country illegally. or the information the give belong to 12 others in the computer.
And I am required to carry this information on my person at all times. I have no problem with that because it is for my own protection to be able to prove who I am and in case or an accident and I am not consciense.
Stupid illegals don't carry any ID. They also carry IDs of other people children to the welfare office. How may Maria Lopez have kids name Jose and Rosa? Hundreds. That's how they commit welfare fraud.
Every law abiding US citizen should help report illegal aliens, *especially hospitals*. Only takes a minute to push a buttion and connect with Immigration authorities. JUST DO IT.


----------



## LilOlLady

Truthmatters said:


> Hospitals are now going to be imigration centers?
> 
> This means *people will die for lack of treatment*.
> 
> Arizona has lost its mind



Then don't come here illegally. Problem solved.
I don't think hospitals would have a problem with it since they are going bankrupt because they have to give illegal aliens free medical care.
If an homeless man goes to a private hospital, he is given emergency treatment and then sent to a public hospital.
What make illegal aliens think we owe them free medical care just because they are here? When immigrants came through Ellis Island they had to undergo a medical exam before they were allowed in. Mexican come in carrying all kind of diseases. Quarantine them, treat men and turn them over to immigraition.
If they get sick enough they will go to ER for treatment. Gang members who get shot or stabbed to to ER knowing they are subject to arrest?


----------



## LilOlLady

Bosun said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bosun said:
> 
> 
> 
> *latin americans were here first*... in their country bro.... why was ice in their country bro.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before who? Make up your mind, is this their country or is mexico their country. Those mexican that were born in Mexico are citizens of Mexico. They lost part of the US when they sold it for $13 million. Now the want to reclaim it? There are Mexican American that are in this country for generatiions but that does not give all Mexicans every where the right to be here. Afro-American have no claim on African because their descendent were from Africa?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i did not mean to urinate in your Wheaties, honest.   i was being sarcastic...  i do agree with you disertation....
Click to expand...


----------



## LilOlLady

xsited1 said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> FEBRUARY 16, 2011.U.S. Agents Are Shot, One Killed, In Mexico
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He was probably killed with an American made weapon supplied by the ATF.
Click to expand...


*"If a man will not work, he shall not eat."* 2 Thessalonians 3:10 

I believe Paul meant *evey able bodied man should work when work is available*. and
 The one who is *unwilling *to work shall not eat.


----------



## LilOlLady

Comrade Ishmael said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Ishmael said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree.
> 
> Send all the honkeys back to Europe.
> 
> For evidence why this is necessary, I submit all the racial violence of the past 200 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't decide if you're just generally an idiot, or only one on the specific subject of *illegal *immigration, which seems to be a concept beyond your grasp.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *If you ask a Native American*, I think they would argue we came here *illegitimately*... which is really the same as illegally. The only difference is formal codification.
> 
> The only idiots are people who feel threatened by Mexican immigrants (legal or illegal). What? Afraid someone will say a Spanish word around you? The horror.
Click to expand...


I am Native American and Native American did not believe the land belonged to anyone and welcomed the white man when they came and let them settle. What the white man did afterwards is what was wrong. *They got greedy*. There were no immigration laws then and Natives did not have a claim on the land.
Feel threatened by illegal aliens? Rightfully so. Their mere presence is a threat. Not to mention the monetary cost and the cost of american lives. Illegal immigration is the biggest threat to our freedom adn survival as a nation. Not terrorism.


----------



## AmericanFirst

Ravi said:


> So if someone arrives at the hospital with meningitis or some other deadly communicable disease the hospital will be required to check their immigration status before treating them?
> 
> How retarded. The State of Arizona should be disbanded as a menace to society.


Obama should be disbanded for being a menace to society and the security of this country. Isolate the illegal with menengitis and deport back to mexico to infect his own country.


----------



## Flagwavrusa

LilOlLady said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hospitals are now going to be imigration centers?
> 
> This means *people will die for lack of treatment*.
> 
> Arizona has lost its mind
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then don't come here illegally. Problem solved.
> I don't think hospitals would have a problem with it since they are going bankrupt because they have to give illegal aliens free medical care.
> If an homeless man goes to a private hospital, he is given emergency treatment and then sent to a public hospital.
> What make illegal aliens think we owe them free medical care just because they are here? When immigrants came through Ellis Island they had to undergo a medical exam before they were allowed in. Mexican come in carrying all kind of diseases. Quarantine them, treat men and turn them over to immigraition.
> If they get sick enough they will go to ER for treatment. Gang members who get shot or stabbed to to ER knowing they are subject to arrest?
Click to expand...


Unfortunately, I don't think it is realistic to expect Mexican immigrants to police themselves and refrain from coming to America based on a moral appeal. They do not view their actions the same way America does. Free medical care, free education, a chance to live in a nice place instead of a shithole drugtocracy. Its like an open ended invitation, and if I were Mexican I'd do the same.

If you want immigration reform you need to blame the politicians and businesses who make America a welcome environment for illegals. Vote for the candidates who are tough on immigration. Vote in Republican primaries for the candidate who is most serious about closing down the border and shutting out illegals. Trump, for instance, has taken a tough tone against illegal immigration. Above all, vote Obama out of office in 12, nothing will improve until he's out.


----------



## Angelhair

Montrovant said:


> I wish the article told us what the ICE agents were doing in Mexico.  Were they in the middle of an official action of some sort?  Had they completed some kind of investigation, or were they on the way to begin one?  Is it possible they were there as private citizens rather than agents of the US government?  I'm not looking for some reason to excuse their attackers, but I am curious if there is any reason to believe this was a targeted attack or not.



_YOU are very naive.  We have agents in Mexico for years now trying to help those inept people!   Nothing is going to fix that corrupt country.  Not us, not them, NOT even GOD.  It is doomed to failure because there is nobody there that gives a damn about anybody.  Most of them run to the north to enjoy the good life and leave behind those who are not able to help themselves because they have been kept in extreme poverty AND IGNORANCE!_


----------



## Angelhair

Ravi said:


> So if someone arrives at the hospital with meningitis or some other deadly communicable disease the hospital will be required to check their immigration status before treating them?
> 
> How retarded. The State of Arizona should be disbanded as a menace to society.



_No - the menace to society is people with your mentality.  Hospitals, yes, even in AZ, are required BY FEDERAL LAW to treat anybody and everybody!  Nothing should keep them from asking for their status once treated.  Go, go, go ARIZONA!!!!_


----------



## Cecilie1200

Comrade Ishmael said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Ishmael said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree.
> 
> Send all the honkeys back to Europe.
> 
> For evidence why this is necessary, I submit all the racial violence of the past 200 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't decide if you're just generally an idiot, or only one on the specific subject of *illegal *immigration, which seems to be a concept beyond your grasp.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you ask a Native American, I think they would argue we came here illegitimately... which is really the same as illegally. The only difference is formal codification.
> 
> The only idiots are people who feel threatened by Mexican immigrants (legal or illegal). What? Afraid someone will say a Spanish word around you? The horror.
Click to expand...


First of all, the North American aborigines are no more "native" than anyone else.  Immigrating earlier doesn't make you indigenous.

Second of all, only a North American aborigine who was as big a halfwit as you are would try to argue that we came here illegitimately OR illegally (and no, fucktard, they are not the same).  If anything, the experience of the North American aborigines is a strong argument as to why one needs to have a strong sense of national sovereignty, a firm and clear border policy, and the will to enforce it.  They had none of the above.

Third, Mensa Boy, that little "only difference" of formal codification is quite significant, in that it is the only thing in the world that makes something illegal.  You can dislike something all you wish, and if you don't have a law against it, your opinion doesn't mean spit.  And if you don't have the power to enforce that law, the law doesn't mean spit, either.

Fourth, jackwad, what you know about illegal immigration, the people who oppose it, or Mexican immigrants in general obviously wouldn't fill a gnat's ear.  You think those of us on the border give a good goddamn about "having a Spanish word said around us"?  You really think THAT is the only problem we have with people flooding illegally across our border?  It must be because we hate Mexicans, because there COULDN'T be any other fucking problem with it?

Sit your juvenile ass down, shut the fuck up, and maybe you'll learn something, ass clown.


----------



## Angelhair

Comrade Ishmael said:


> I agree.
> 
> Send all the honkeys back to Europe.
> 
> For evidence why this is necessary, I submit all the racial violence of the past 200 years.



_And - YOU should be the first one out of here - honkey or not._


----------



## Dot Com

uscitizen said:


> Check citizenship give the emergency treatment and lock em up and send em home after getting genetic imprint.  If they show up again put em in jail for 30 days and send em home, if caught again 1 yr, etc.



I agree except w/ the 'jailing' part. That is one, of many, reasons Cali is in the financial shape it's in. Jailing people is quite expensive especially in the U.S. They need to deal w/ their internal problems in Mexico so they won't come here in the 1st place IMHO.


----------



## Angelhair

MEXICO CITY - A U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent was killed and another wounded while driving through northern Mexico Tuesday, in a rare attack on American officials in this country which is fighting powerful drug cartels.

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said one agent was critically wounded in the attack and died from his injuries. The second agent was shot in the arm and leg and remains in stable condition.

The department did not release their names.

"I'm deeply saddened by the news that earlier today, two U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) special agents assigned to the ICE Attache office in Mexico City were shot in the line of duty while driving between Mexico City and Monterrey by unknown assailants," she said.

U.S. and Mexican officials said they were working closely together to investigate the shooting and find those responsible.

"Let me be clear: Any act of violence against our ICE personnel - or any DHS personnel - is an attack against all those who serve our nation and put their lives at risk for our safety," Napolitano said. "We remain committed in our broader support for Mexico's efforts to combat violence within its borders."

The two agents were driving in the northern state of San Luis Potosi when someone opened fire on them, according to reports.

San Luis Potosi police said gunmen attacked two people a blue Suburban on Highway 57 between Mexico City and Monterrey, near the town of Santa Maria del Rio, at about 2:30 p.m.

Police said one person was killed and another was flown to a Mexico City hospital, though they couldn't confirm the victims were the ICE agents.

Arturo Sarukhan, Mexican ambassador to the U.S., spoke with ICE chief John Morton to express Mexico's condolences, according to a spokesman.

"This is a difficult time for ICE and especially for the families and loved ones of our agents. Our hearts and prayers go out to them. This tragedy is a stark reminder of the risks confronted and the sacrifices made by our men and women every day," Morton said in a statement.

Though Mexico is seeing record rates of violence from warring drug cartels and a crackdown on organized crime, it is rare for U.S. officials to be attacked. The U.S. government, however, has become increasingly concerned about the safety of its employees in Mexico amid the escalating violence.

In March, a U.S. employee of a consulate, her husband and a Mexican tied to the American consulate were killed when drug gang members fired on their cars as they left a children's party in Ciudad Juarez, across the border from El Paso.

The U.S. State Department has taken several measures over the past year to protect consulate employees and their families. In July, it temporarily closed the consulate in Ciudad Juarez after receiving unspecified threats.

1 US agent slain, 2nd wounded in attack inside Mexico


----------



## auditor0007

This one is a no-brainer.  I seriously doubt there would be much objection to a Constitutional Amendment that would make this change.


----------



## Angelhair

_Everything that has to do with Mexico when it concerns the USA is a JOKE!  NOTHING is ever done to make things better.  Napolitano as well as EVERY administration treats Mexico with kit gloves.  It's time to take them off.  Napolitano has seen first hand what happens on border states but when she left AZ to go to WA, and since she serves the president, she has done an about face.  NO president seems to want to rock the mexican boat.  I wonder what is up with that????  It does seem that they have something quite 'secretive' concerning the USA and are 'holding it over our heads.'_


----------



## FifthColumn

Flagwavrusa said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hospitals are now going to be imigration centers?
> 
> This means *people will die for lack of treatment*.
> 
> Arizona has lost its mind
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then don't come here illegally. Problem solved.
> I don't think hospitals would have a problem with it since they are going bankrupt because they have to give illegal aliens free medical care.
> If an homeless man goes to a private hospital, he is given emergency treatment and then sent to a public hospital.
> What make illegal aliens think we owe them free medical care just because they are here? When immigrants came through Ellis Island they had to undergo a medical exam before they were allowed in. Mexican come in carrying all kind of diseases. Quarantine them, treat men and turn them over to immigraition.
> If they get sick enough they will go to ER for treatment. Gang members who get shot or stabbed to to ER knowing they are subject to arrest?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't think it is realistic to expect Mexican immigrants to police themselves and refrain from coming to America based on a moral appeal. They do not view their actions the same way America does. Free medical care, free education, a chance to live in a nice place instead of a shithole drugtocracy. Its like an open ended invitation, and if I were Mexican I'd do the same.
> 
> If you want immigration reform you need to blame the politicians and businesses who make America a welcome environment for illegals. Vote for the candidates who are tough on immigration. Vote in Republican primaries for the candidate who is most serious about closing down the border and shutting out illegals. Trump, for instance, has taken a tough tone against illegal immigration. Above all, vote Obama out of office in 12, nothing will improve until he's out.
Click to expand...

 
But what if you live in Illinois, where most of the politicians side with the Mexican invaders and set up "sanctuary" cities and counties so the drugs and illegals keep flowin'? Our goofy Governor Pat Quinn hands out money to Latino only projects then cut off benefits for poor Americans claiming there's no money to go around.

We are also the hub for drug distribution and LA RAZA henchmen like Luis Gutierrez who pledge to "get even" with anyone who votes against the Latin American invasion of the US.


----------



## Big Hoss

Good idea. Maybe more will go back to Mexico or to California now. Hell its now a mexican state seems like.


----------



## AVG-JOE

FifthColumn said:


> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *It's time to close birthright citizenship loophole*
> Sen. David Vitter
> 
> February 15, 2011
> 
> *Americas illegal immigration problem is out of control*. To change this, we must better protect our borders, particularly the Mexican border, and ensure that only citizens and those in our country legally can be hired for jobs.
> 
> Another change we must make is to stop babies born in this country to two illegal immigrant parents from automatically becoming U.S. citizens as they do now; this happens *more than 300,000 to 400,000 times in the U.S. every year*. This is just flat wrong, and it serves as *a magnet to attract more and more adults into our country illegally*.
> 
> *I recently introduced legislation so that a person born in the United States to illegal aliens does not automatically gain citizenship unless at least one parent is a legal citizen (including naturalized citizens), legal immigrant, or active member of the Armed Forces. Closing this loophole will not prevent anyone from becoming a citizen. What it will do is ensure that he or she has to go through the same process as anyone else born of foreign parents who wants to become an American citizen.*
> 
> I dont believe that the 14th Amendment to our Constitution grants birthright citizenship to the children of illegal immigrants. In fact, all we have to do is use history as our guide. It reminds us that this amendment was *specifically designed *to address the horrible injustice of slavery  not to grant citizenship to children of people living in our country illegally.
> 
> Therefore, my goal is to make sure that our 14th Amendment is not stretched to allow a person born in the United States to illegal aliens to automatically gain citizenship. I want to *bring the 14th Amendment back to what its drafters intended * nothing more and nothing less.
> 
> Please let me know about any issues of importance to you and your family by contacting me at any of my state offices or in my Washington office by mail at U.S. Senator David Vitter, U.S. Senate, 516 Hart Senate Office Building, Washington, D.C. 20510, or by phone at 202-224-4623. You can also reach me on the web at vitter.senate.gov.
> 
> *David Vitter is a U.S. Senator from Louisiana and the chairman of the U.S. Senate Border Security and Enforcement First Immigration Caucus*.
> 
> The Natchez Democrat - It's time to close birthright citizenship loophole
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about the next generation? What do we do with a child born in a US hospital to 2 people who were also born here but are "not quite American"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you willing to let the future of American be decided by third world helper monkeys who forced their way into the US over the graves of American GIs?
Click to expand...


I'm just asking a question that is highly likely to occur.  

There are solutions, like:  Grant birthright citizenship to children born to people who can document a bloodline going back 4 generations of "Sort of Americans".

  Do we REALLY want to go there, Kemo Sabe?  Ranking Americans in classes by the length of their bloodline born on American soil?


----------



## AVG-JOE

Nate said:


> Comrade Ishmael said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't decide if you're just generally an idiot, or only one on the specific subject of *illegal *immigration, which seems to be a concept beyond your grasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you ask a Native American, I think they would argue we came here illegitimately... which is really the same as illegally. The only difference is formal codification.
> 
> The only idiots are people who feel threatened by Mexican immigrants (legal or illegal). What? Afraid someone will say a Spanish word around you? The horror.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If that's the only reason you think we Americans are afraid of the *illegal* immigration problem then you certainly haven't been paying attention!! For starters they're exacerbating our economic problems and among many other things, *they are breaking the law* by entering our country!! We are taught from an early age to obey the law of the land, why should these illegals get to ignore the laws over entering our country?
Click to expand...


Yup.  And the politicians that you hired to work on the problem when it was a problem blew you off and did... other things, and now the problem is a major SNAFU King Size Cluster Fuck.

Did you learn anything?

I'm surprised those most protesting the economy that supports illegal immigration aren't the *legal* immigrants... Do you know how fucking easy it is to get a green card?  All it takes is money.

What if we opened the borders and let genuine citizens earn their first $30,000 free of federal income tax?    Can we DO that in a democracy?


----------



## Cecilie1200

AVG-JOE said:


> FifthColumn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about the next generation? What do we do with a child born in a US hospital to 2 people who were also born here but are "not quite American"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you willing to let the future of American be decided by third world helper monkeys who forced their way into the US over the graves of American GIs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm just asking a question that is highly likely to occur.
> 
> There are solutions, like:  Grant birthright citizenship to children born to people who can document a bloodline going back 4 generations of "Sort of Americans".
> 
> Do we REALLY want to go there, Kemo Sabe?  Ranking Americans in classes by the length of their bloodline born on American soil?
Click to expand...


Why would we have to?  By this point in time, everyone in this country is either a documentable citizen in his own right (or a documentable legal resident), or isn't.  Period.  So if you're born here, and neither of your parents is a documented citizen or legal resident, neither are you.

Simple.  Why do you feel the need to complicate this?


----------



## kraklov

Hi. My name is Kraklov. I was born in Moscow, now live in Turjicistan. I would like cultural learnings be spread to Americans that Multiculturalism is  failure. It failed Europe already. All European want foreigner out. Yes that liberal europe as well. Especially liberal europe. In europe, they already see how negro from africa and sand-negro from desert land has lead to high crime and dumb down education.
   Please look to europe for this my american friend and see this is big problem with crime and dumb down/poor grade testing education in America. You use to be #1 now you are less than my lowly Russia and Turjicistan. 
   Please write back Kraklov your learnings from this post and if you respond with mindless rage and anger, it mean you are afraid of truth. Like cave man when he get upset, he respond with much anger towards other caveman with out taking time think about the reality of truth.


----------



## Intense

kraklov said:


> Hi. My name is Kraklov. I was born in Moscow, now live in Turjicistan. I would like cultural learnings be spread to Americans that Multiculturalism is  failure. It failed Europe already. All European want foreigner out. Yes that liberal europe as well. Especially liberal europe. In europe, they already see how negro from africa and sand-negro from desert land has lead to high crime and dumb down education.
> Please look to europe for this my american friend and see this is big problem with crime and dumb down/poor grade testing education in America. You use to be #1 now you are less than my lowly Russia and Turjicistan.
> Please write back Kraklov your learnings from this post and if you respond with mindless rage and anger, it mean you are afraid of truth. Like cave man when he get upset, he respond with much anger towards other caveman with out taking time think about the reality of truth.



Bye Now!  Where do you go for fun??? Norristown or Philadelphia???


----------



## BrianH

LilOlLady said:


> BrianH said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bosun said:
> 
> 
> 
> mexico is safe, unless one is against the cartel...  we will have some problems, most from our own politically correctors..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I fear the time is coming where it's really going to spill over the border.  It already is to a degree, but remains uncovered by the media.  For some reason they don't want to let everyone know how unsafe it is in the South.  But I worry that there will be a day where there will be war in the streets of the southern states like Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California.  There really already is on the border cities, but I'm betting it'll move further into the states if something drastic isn't done soon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> when drugs are being smuggled across the border is has already spilled over. Most of the news is about drug smuggling by illegals crossing the border. Drug violence and gangs on our streets are not about violence from across the border. We are at war with MS13 who are dealers in drugs. Have you heard of the drug violence in phoenix? That is what all the roaring is about in Arizona.
> 
> Drug related violence is in every state in this country and 90% of all our drugs come across the souther border. When we fight drugs on the streets of our cities we are fighting drug cartels. When we stop guns and money from crossing into Mexico, we are fighting drugs cartels.
Click to expand...


I'm not saying that the drug trafficing hasn't spilled across the border.  I live in South Texas...I know what you're talking about.  I'm talking about the full scale assassinations and firefights that we're seeing on the border.


----------



## AVG-JOE

Cecilie1200 said:


> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FifthColumn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you willing to let the future of American be decided by third world helper monkeys who forced their way into the US over the graves of American GIs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just asking a question that is highly likely to occur.
> 
> There are solutions, like:  Grant birthright citizenship to children born to people who can document a bloodline going back 4 generations of "Sort of Americans".
> 
> Do we REALLY want to go there, Kemo Sabe?  Ranking Americans in classes by the length of their bloodline born on American soil?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why would we have to?  By this point in time, everyone in this country is either a documentable citizen in his own right (or a documentable legal resident), or isn't.  Period.  So if you're born here, and neither of your parents is a documented citizen or legal resident, neither are you.
> 
> Simple.  Why do you feel the need to complicate this?
Click to expand...


You have to refer back to the quote from the original post from LoL.



> I recently introduced legislation so that a person born in the United States to illegal aliens does not automatically gain citizenship unless at least one parent is a legal citizen (including naturalized citizens), legal immigrant, or active member of the Armed Forces. Closing this loophole will not prevent anyone from becoming a citizen. What it will do is ensure that he or she has to go through the same process as anyone else born of foreign parents who wants to become an American citizen.



It seems to be proposed legislation to stop handing out a Social Security Number to every kid lucky enough to be born on American soil.  If we do that, what do we do with the inevitable children, also born on American soil, of a union between two of these semi-legal bastards?  What about their children?  How many generations do we exile?


It's a legitimate question.


----------



## AVG-JOE

kraklov said:


> Hi. My name is Kraklov. I was born in Moscow, now live in Turjicistan. I would like cultural learnings be spread to Americans that Multiculturalism is  failure. It failed Europe already. All European want foreigner out. Yes that liberal europe as well. Especially liberal europe. In europe, they already see how negro from africa and sand-negro from desert land has lead to high crime and dumb down education.
> Please look to europe for this my american friend and see this is big problem with crime and dumb down/poor grade testing education in America. You use to be #1 now you are less than my lowly Russia and Turjicistan.
> Please write back Kraklov your learnings from this post and if you respond with mindless rage and anger, it mean you are afraid of truth. Like cave man when he get upset, he respond with much anger towards other caveman with out taking time think about the reality of truth.



If the world was raped by the Europeans during the 500 years leading up to WW II, America is the dysfunctional spawn that most resembles daddy.  Comparisons between the two are no more or less valuable than comparisons between any estranged but speaking father and son.  White America never had the luxury of an option to cleanse its blood.  Europe may have once had the opportunity to cleanse but I'll bet that ship sailed for Daddy after 1950.  

When momma's little bastards do reach the stars, I imagine most of them will be varying shades of brown.


----------



## waltky

Siccin' the FBI after `em...

*Official: Gunmen knew ICE agents were law officers*
_Feb 16,`11 -- Gunmen who shot up an SUV carrying two U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents, killing one, knew they were attacking law enforcement officers, according to U.S. officials._


> But details of the attack that emerged Wednesday indicate the two agents were not targeted ahead of time, rather stopped in the wrong place at the wrong time in a blue Suburban - a vehicle coveted by drug cartels.  Special Agent Jaime Zapata, 32, died and a second agent, Victor Avila, was wounded Tuesday when they were attacked after being stopped on a four-lane federal highway in northern Mexico.
> 
> They were returning to Mexico City from a meeting with other U.S. personnel in the state of San Luis Potosi, according to an ICE statement, which also said the Mexican government does not authorize U.S. law enforcement personnel to carry weapons.  Some reports said the two were stopped at a roadblock, while others said they were run off the road by other vehicles.
> 
> Texas Congressman Michael McCaul, who was briefed on the incident as chairman of the Homeland Security Oversight and Investigations Subcommittee, the gunmen opened fire after the agents indentified themselves as U.S. diplomats.  An U.S. law enforcement official told The Associated Press that the gunmen made comments before they fired indicating they knew who their targets were. The official was not authorized to discuss the case publicly.
> 
> "This was an intentional ambush against two United States federal agents," McCaul said in a statement. "This tragic event is a game changer. The United States will not tolerate acts of violence against its citizens or law enforcement and I believe we must respond forcefully."  U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano and Attorney General Eric Holder announced a joint task force led by the FBI to help Mexico find the killers.
> 
> MORE


----------



## LilOlLady

BrianH said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrianH said:
> 
> 
> 
> I fear the time is coming where it's really going to spill over the border.  It already is to a degree, but remains uncovered by the media.  For some reason they don't want to let everyone know how unsafe it is in the South.  But I worry that there will be a day where there will be war in the streets of the southern states like Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California.  There really already is on the border cities, but I'm betting it'll move further into the states if something drastic isn't done soon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> when drugs are being smuggled across the border is has already spilled over. Most of the news is about drug smuggling by illegals crossing the border. Drug violence and gangs on our streets are not about violence from across the border. We are at war with MS13 who are dealers in drugs. Have you heard of the drug violence in phoenix? That is what all the roaring is about in Arizona.
> 
> Drug related violence is in every state in this country and 90% of all our drugs come across the souther border. When we fight drugs on the streets of our cities we are fighting drug cartels. When we stop guns and money from crossing into Mexico, we are fighting drugs cartels.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not saying that the drug trafficing hasn't spilled across the border.  I live in South Texas...I know what you're talking about.  I'm talking about the full scale assassinations and firefights that we're seeing on the border.
Click to expand...


*Mexican cartels running pot farms in U.S. national forest*
JOHN WALTERS 

August 08, 2008
From Dan Simon "American Morning" Correspondent

"These aren't Cheech and Chong plants," says the nation's drug czar, John Walters. Beyond the towering trees that have stood here for thousands of years, an intense drug war is being waged.

Illegal immigrants connected to Mexico's drug cartels are growing hundreds of millions of dollars worth of marijuana in the heart of one of America's national treasures, authorities say. It's a booming business that, federal officials say, feeds Mexico's most violent drug traffickers.

"These aren't Cheech and Chong plants," said John Walters, director of the National Drug Control Policy. "People who farm now are not doing this for laughs, despite the fact Hollywood still thinks that. They're doing it to make a lot of money."
Mexican cartels running pot farms in U.S. national forest - CNN


----------



## LilOlLady

BrianH said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrianH said:
> 
> 
> 
> I fear the time is coming where it's really going to spill over the border.  It already is to a degree, but remains uncovered by the media.  For some reason they don't want to let everyone know how unsafe it is in the South.  But I worry that there will be a day where there will be war in the streets of the southern states like Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California.  There really already is on the border cities, but I'm betting it'll move further into the states if something drastic isn't done soon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> when drugs are being smuggled across the border is has already spilled over. Most of the news is about drug smuggling by illegals crossing the border. Drug violence and gangs on our streets are not about violence from across the border. We are at war with MS13 who are dealers in drugs. Have you heard of the drug violence in phoenix? That is what all the roaring is about in Arizona.
> 
> Drug related violence is in every state in this country and 90% of all our drugs come across the souther border. When we fight drugs on the streets of our cities we are fighting drug cartels. When we stop guns and money from crossing into Mexico, we are fighting drugs cartels.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not saying that the drug trafficing hasn't spilled across the border.  I live in South Texas...I know what you're talking about.  I'm talking about the *full scale assassinations *and *firefights* that we're seeing on the border.
Click to expand...




We may never see that from drug cartels but the effects of the drug use and dealing on our streets are much the same. Lives are being destroyed either way.


----------



## Bosun

LilOlLady said:


> Bosun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> Before who? Make up your mind, is this their country or is mexico their country. Those mexican that were born in Mexico are citizens of Mexico. They lost part of the US when they sold it for $13 million. Now the want to reclaim it? There are Mexican American that are in this country for generatiions but that does not give all Mexicans every where the right to be here. Afro-American have no claim on African because their descendent were from Africa?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i did not mean to urinate in your Wheaties, honest.   i was being sarcastic...  i do agree with you disertation....
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


I said:   latin americans were here first... in their country bro.... why was ice in their country bro.....

You said:  Before who? Make up your mind, is this their country or is mexico their country. Those mexican that were born in Mexico are citizens of Mexico. They lost part of the US when they sold it for $13 million. 

and you appropriately added which I thanked you for:  Now the want to reclaim it? There are Mexican American that are in this country for generatiions but that does not give all Mexicans every where the right to be here. Afro-American have no claim on African because their descendent were from Africa?

Sounds like I got you going with my original comment and you may have inadvertently gotten the impression that I am a progressive leaning multiculturalist.    I am not and I would not give an brown, yellow, black, blue, or purple person any repriations..   I do not believe the sins of those who were here before me should be billed to me...   I am rather politically incorrect and say to hell with all repriation bills.  I was just apologizin for any ill you may have felt regarding my OC.  Go in peace my sister, return in peace....


----------



## waltky

Mexico gettin' on Obama's bad side?...

*Killing of US agent in Mexico could raise pressure on Mexico*
_February 16, 2011 - A US federal agent for the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Attache in Mexico City was shot and killed Tuesday, and another agent was wounded in an attack on their vehicle._


> A US federal agent was fatally shot Tuesday and another wounded in an attack on their vehicle that could raise pressure on Mexico to better protect US officials.  Jaime Zapata, who was working at the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Attache office in Mexico City, died of his wounds. The injured agent, who was not identified, was shot in the arm and leg and remains in stable condition.
> 
> The special agents had been driving between the violent northern city of Monterrey and Mexico City through the state of San Luis Potosí when gunmen opened fire. Local media photos show a sports utility vehicle with tinted windows apparently run off the highway and peppered with bullets through the passenger window.  News reports that the men were caught in a false roadblock customarily set up by drug traffickers were not confirmed, and Mexican military told The Associated press that they have no checkpoints in the area.
> 
> The agents were shot in the line of duty. In response to an inquiry about the agents&#8217; duties in Mexico, ICE said it coordinates investigations into &#8220;transnational criminal organizations&#8221; and serves as liaison with foreign law enforcement. ICE agents in Mexico also participate extensively in training of Mexican police, the US Embassy of Mexico City says.  On Tuesday, Mexico&#8217;s Foreign Ministry immediately condemned the attack and pledged to bring the assailants to justice. The same day, the Attorney General&#8217;s Office sent organized crime investigators to the relatively calm state of San Luis Potosí where the shooting took place, Mexican newspapers reported.
> 
> A tough US response?
> 
> Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said the United States is working closely with officials on the Mexican-led investigation to ensure the perpetrators are captured as quickly as possible.  &#8220;Let me be clear: Any act of violence against our ICE personnel ... is an attack against all those who serve our nation and put their lives at risk for our safety,&#8221; Ms. Napolitano said.  The strongly worded statement, along with a history of swift justice against the few traffickers who have killed or threatened US agents, portend a major crackdown against drug groups found responsible.
> 
> MORE


----------



## MikeK

LilOlLady said:


> [...]
> 
> Drug related violence is in every state in this country and 90% of all our drugs come across the souther border. When we fight drugs on the streets of our cities we are fighting drug cartels. When we stop guns and money from crossing into Mexico, we are fighting drugs cartels.


Intelligently acknowledging the futility of the aggressive approach to drug law enforcement, The Netherlands abandoned its failed drug policy in 1976 by decriminalizing marijuana and adopting a heroin maintenance program.  Since that time their crime statistics have significantly decreased, marijuana use by minors has decreased and the overall result of their enlightened policy has been impressively positive.  

Switzerland adopted a similar policy in 1992 and the results are equally successful.  

Portugal decriminalized the possession and use of all drugs in 2001, providing maintenance and treatment for addicts.  Their experiment has been completely successful in every way. 

The U.S. put an end to the epidemic of violence associated with alcohol prohibition by legalizing it.  So can you suggest *one reason* why the United States should continue fighting its utterly failed and ruinously counterproductive War On Drugs?


----------



## Ravi

gekaap said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if someone arrives at the hospital with meningitis or some other deadly communicable disease the hospital will be required to check their immigration status before treating them?
> 
> How retarded. The State of Arizona should be disbanded as a menace to society.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Nobody said that any citizenship check would be before treatment would be rendered*.  Although nothing here mentions "when," in all likelihood it would be bundled in with collecting insurance information.  I.E. when time permits, and not yet if immediate treatment is necessary for the welfare of the patient.  In theory, I don't have a major problem with this.  In practice, I worry that it might dissuade illegal immigrants from going to the hospital, which could possibly create a danger to the public because serious infections could spread when people avoid treatment in an effort to avoid punishment for their illegal status.  But, if the people of AZ are willing to accept that risk, then by all means go for it.
Click to expand...

The bill says citizenship is to be determined before treatment is given. It doesn't say that hospitals can't treat people that can't prove their citizenship, but it is something that must be determined first and ICE must be notified.


----------



## JWBooth

MikeK said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> [...]
> 
> Drug related violence is in every state in this country and 90% of all our drugs come across the souther border. When we fight drugs on the streets of our cities we are fighting drug cartels. When we stop guns and money from crossing into Mexico, we are fighting drugs cartels.
> 
> 
> 
> Intelligently acknowledging the futility of the aggressive approach to drug law enforcement, The Netherlands abandoned its failed drug policy in 1976 by decriminalizing marijuana and adopting a heroin maintenance program.  Since that time their crime statistics have significantly decreased, marijuana use by minors has decreased and the overall result of their enlightened policy has been impressively positive.
> 
> Switzerland adopted a similar policy in 1992 and the results are equally successful.
> 
> Portugal decriminalized the possession and use of all drugs in 2001, providing maintenance and treatment for addicts.  Their experiment has been completely successful in every way.
> 
> The U.S. put an end to the epidemic of violence associated with alcohol prohibition by legalizing it.  So can you suggest *one reason* why the United States should continue fighting its utterly failed and ruinously counterproductive War On Drugs?
Click to expand...


Job security for tens of thousands of cops, lawyers, prosecutors, prison officials, tough on crime politicians, and bureaucrats. Market share for alcoholic beverage producers and affiliated wholesalers and retailers.


----------



## sparky

well until the gov implants cranial microchips , may i suggest>


----------



## WillowTree

And our ICE agents in Mexico cannot carry arms. They were sitting ducks targeted for assassination. Now what?


----------



## spectrumc01

There is no need to change the 14th amendment, US children are allowed to leave the country with their parents, wether the parents are legal or illegal.  Over reaction is illustrated by the call for changing the constitution.  Not to mention the money that would be spent on such an endevor by both sides, when it could and should be spent elsewhere.


----------



## gekaap

Ravi said:


> The bill says citizenship is to be determined before treatment is given.



You must support this statement with evidence.


----------



## gekaap

spectrumc01 said:


> There is no need to change the 14th amendment, US children are allowed to leave the country with their parents, wether the parents are legal or illegal.



The question is not whether these children are allowed to leave the US.  It's a matter of whether they can be *required* to leave.  If they are citizens, then the answer is "no."  They cannot be deported, because they are citizens.  That then raises the difficult question of what to do with the illegal parents?  Because society is resistant to breaking up families for immigration enforcement, the government tends not to deport illegal aliens who have citizen children.

There is the further issue of these children, as citizens, qualifying for welfare benefits, and the fact that this is a point for abuse by many illegal aliens.  There's also the issue of the loophole serving as an attraction for people to illegally immigrate.  The fact that citizenship is so easily obtainable for one's children by immigrating shortly before birth of the children spurs immigration by parents who want their children to be able to gain the benefits of US citizenship.



> Over reaction is illustrated by the call for changing the constitution.



It's not an over reaction to cite the many problems associated with illegal immigration in our country.  It's not an over reaction to note the very true facts of how the anchor baby loophole is not only exploitable, but is frequently exploited in a malicious way.  Since it is not an over reaction to note these points, there is no over reaction by recommending a reasonable solution which is based on legal necessities of the issue.  Since the ONLY legal resolution is to amend the constitution, suggesting such is not an over reaction.  It is, in fact, the ONLY possible reaction.



> Not to mention the money that would be spent on such an endevor by both sides, when it could and should be spent elsewhere.



There is no cost to amend the constitution.


----------



## Cecilie1200

AVG-JOE said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just asking a question that is highly likely to occur.
> 
> There are solutions, like:  Grant birthright citizenship to children born to people who can document a bloodline going back 4 generations of "Sort of Americans".
> 
> Do we REALLY want to go there, Kemo Sabe?  Ranking Americans in classes by the length of their bloodline born on American soil?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would we have to?  By this point in time, everyone in this country is either a documentable citizen in his own right (or a documentable legal resident), or isn't.  Period.  So if you're born here, and neither of your parents is a documented citizen or legal resident, neither are you.
> 
> Simple.  Why do you feel the need to complicate this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have to refer back to the quote from the original post from LoL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I recently introduced legislation so that a person born in the United States to illegal aliens does not automatically gain citizenship unless at least one parent is a legal citizen (including naturalized citizens), legal immigrant, or active member of the Armed Forces. Closing this loophole will not prevent anyone from becoming a citizen. What it will do is ensure that he or she has to go through the same process as anyone else born of foreign parents who wants to become an American citizen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems to be proposed legislation to stop handing out a Social Security Number to every kid lucky enough to be born on American soil.  If we do that, what do we do with the inevitable children, also born on American soil, of a union between two of these semi-legal bastards?  What about their children?  How many generations do we exile?
> 
> 
> It's a legitimate question.
Click to expand...


What are you not understanding about this quote?  ". . . unless at least one parent is a legal citizen (including naturalized citizens), *legal immigrant*, or active member of the Armed Forces."

As long as at least one parent is in the country legally, the kid's good to go.  If BOTH parents are here legally, so much the better.  If they're both illegal, so's the kid.  Where's the confusion?


----------



## AVG-JOE

Cecilie1200 said:


> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would we have to?  By this point in time, everyone in this country is either a documentable citizen in his own right (or a documentable legal resident), or isn't.  Period.  So if you're born here, and neither of your parents is a documented citizen or legal resident, neither are you.
> 
> Simple.  Why do you feel the need to complicate this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have to refer back to the quote from the original post from LoL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I recently introduced legislation so that a person born in the United States to illegal aliens does not automatically gain citizenship unless at least one parent is a legal citizen (including naturalized citizens), legal immigrant, or active member of the Armed Forces. Closing this loophole will not prevent anyone from becoming a citizen. What it will do is ensure that he or she has to go through the same process as anyone else born of foreign parents who wants to become an American citizen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems to be proposed legislation to stop handing out a Social Security Number to every kid lucky enough to be born on American soil.  If we do that, what do we do with the inevitable children, also born on American soil, of a union between two of these semi-legal bastards?  What about their children?  How many generations do we exile?
> 
> 
> It's a legitimate question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What are you not understanding about this quote?  ". . . unless at least one parent is a legal citizen (including naturalized citizens), *legal immigrant*, or active member of the Armed Forces."
> 
> As long as at least one parent is in the country legally, the kid's good to go.  If BOTH parents are here legally, so much the better.  If they're both illegal, so's the kid.  Where's the confusion?
Click to expand...


What do you do with the next generation?  Eventually you're going to end up with a class of creatures who can name layers of BOTH parents who were born here born here illegally.  How many generations do these families have to survive before their kids have a country?  

  Will Mexico grant citizenship to a kid born here to non-citizen parents who were both born here?

I'm telling you this is not so black and white.


----------



## Cecilie1200

AVG-JOE said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have to refer back to the quote from the original post from LoL.
> 
> 
> 
> It seems to be proposed legislation to stop handing out a Social Security Number to every kid lucky enough to be born on American soil.  If we do that, what do we do with the inevitable children, also born on American soil, of a union between two of these semi-legal bastards?  What about their children?  How many generations do we exile?
> 
> 
> It's a legitimate question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are you not understanding about this quote?  ". . . unless at least one parent is a legal citizen (including naturalized citizens), *legal immigrant*, or active member of the Armed Forces."
> 
> As long as at least one parent is in the country legally, the kid's good to go.  If BOTH parents are here legally, so much the better.  If they're both illegal, so's the kid.  Where's the confusion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do you do with the next generation?  Eventually you're going to end up with a class of creatures who can name layers of BOTH parents who were born here born here illegally.  How many generations do these families have to survive before their kids have a country?
Click to expand...


They HAVE a country:  the one their parents are legal citizens of.  It is not our obligation to provide anyone with a country.

What you're asking is, "How long do people have to break the law before we let them get away with it?"  The answer is, "Forever."  I don't care how many generations of someone's family manage to get away with violating our laws.  They're still lawbreakers.  They need to go home.



AVG-JOE said:


> Will Mexico grant citizenship to a kid born here to non-citizen parents who were both born here?
> 
> I'm telling you this is not so black and white.



How is that OUR problem?  Seems to me their frigging PARENTS need to be thinking about their future and well-being, rather than hanging out here, waiting for US to take care of their children.

What's that you say?  Your children and grandchildren might wind up with no home country if you stay?  THEN GO HOME.


----------



## uscitizen

So since virtually all of us are descended from immigrants we should go "home"?


----------



## Cecilie1200

uscitizen said:


> So since virtually all of us are descended from immigrants we should go "home"?



No, just those who are descended from ILLEGAL immigrants and those who are too damned stupid to understand the difference between "legal" and "illegal".

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.


----------



## FifthColumn

uscitizen said:


> So since virtually all of us are descended from immigrants we should go "home"?


 
The last time it was researched, most Americans in the country today decended from the settlers who built America. Immigrants came after the country was settled. 

Does anyone even have a history book out there? 

Stop giving the LA RAZA answer that public schools have been handing out in the last few decades.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Tweaked immigration bill advances*

Panel's 8-5 vote sends measure to full Senate, though a lawmaker says it's merely 'less ugly'

Feb 18, 2011    
Written by
Mary Beth Schneider  

A bill to crack down on illegal immigration in Indiana, similar to a law in Arizona, passed its second legislative hurdle Thursday after some cosmetic changes.

But even one senator who joined the 8-5 majority on the Senate Appropriations Committee in supporting Senate Bill 590 questioned whether the bill is an improvement Indiana needs.

Tweaked immigration bill advances | The Indianapolis Star | indystar.com


----------



## LilOlLady

Americans for Legal Immigration

 Illegal Immigration: Americans Fighting Back

http://www.alipac.us/


----------



## LilOlLady

*Senate passes crackdown on illegal immigrants*
Illegals would face *trespassing charges *under bill
State Sen. John Schickel, R-Union, Ky.   

 01/07/2011

By: Associated Press
FRANKFORT, Ky. - The Kentucky Senate passed a bill aimed at cracking down on illegal immigrants by giving police broad authority to check on the immigration status of people they stop.

The proposal, Senate Bill 6 , would allow police to *arrest illegal immigrants on trespassing charges *for setting foot in Kentucky.

Crackdown on illegal immigrants passes


----------



## AVG-JOE

Cecilie1200 said:


> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What are you not understanding about this quote?  ". . . unless at least one parent is a legal citizen (including naturalized citizens), *legal immigrant*, or active member of the Armed Forces."
> 
> As long as at least one parent is in the country legally, the kid's good to go.  If BOTH parents are here legally, so much the better.  If they're both illegal, so's the kid.  Where's the confusion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you do with the next generation?  Eventually you're going to end up with a class of creatures who can name layers of BOTH parents who were born here born here illegally.  How many generations do these families have to survive before their kids have a country?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They HAVE a country:  the one their parents are legal citizens of.  It is not our obligation to provide anyone with a country.
> 
> What you're asking is, "How long do people have to break the law before we let them get away with it?"  The answer is, "Forever."  I don't care how many generations of someone's family manage to get away with violating our laws.  They're still lawbreakers.  They need to go home.
> 
> 
> 
> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Will Mexico grant citizenship to a kid born here to non-citizen parents who were both born here?
> 
> I'm telling you this is not so black and white.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is that OUR problem?  Seems to me their frigging PARENTS need to be thinking about their future and well-being, rather than hanging out here, waiting for US to take care of their children.
> 
> What's that you say?  Your children and grandchildren might wind up with no home country if you stay?  THEN GO HOME.
Click to expand...


So you advocate deporting mother and child at the moment of discovery?  That's the only way it would work.  There would have to be a cold, zero tolerance policy of deporting any pregnant human females without papers, and putting forth a strong effort to hunt them down.  Harsh, especially in light of human trafficking, but it *would* work, ass-u-me-ing it was 100% successful.

 Sounds expensive.


----------



## Cuyo

Who the eff cares what David 'Hooker' Vitter has to say?


----------



## Cecilie1200

AVG-JOE said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you do with the next generation?  Eventually you're going to end up with a class of creatures who can name layers of BOTH parents who were born here born here illegally.  How many generations do these families have to survive before their kids have a country?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They HAVE a country:  the one their parents are legal citizens of.  It is not our obligation to provide anyone with a country.
> 
> What you're asking is, "How long do people have to break the law before we let them get away with it?"  The answer is, "Forever."  I don't care how many generations of someone's family manage to get away with violating our laws.  They're still lawbreakers.  They need to go home.
> 
> 
> 
> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Will Mexico grant citizenship to a kid born here to non-citizen parents who were both born here?
> 
> I'm telling you this is not so black and white.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is that OUR problem?  Seems to me their frigging PARENTS need to be thinking about their future and well-being, rather than hanging out here, waiting for US to take care of their children.
> 
> What's that you say?  Your children and grandchildren might wind up with no home country if you stay?  THEN GO HOME.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you advocate deporting mother and child at the moment of discovery?  That's the only way it would work.  There would have to be a cold, zero tolerance policy of deporting any pregnant human females without papers, and putting forth a strong effort to hunt them down.  Harsh, especially in light of human trafficking, but it *would* work, ass-u-me-ing it was 100% successful.
Click to expand...


NOW you're getting it.  Throw their illegal asses out the door the minute we find them, and actually behave as though finding them is a desirable thing.

As far as human trafficking goes, the United States already has provisions in its immigration laws - and rightly so, I feel - regarding asking for asylum.  My quarrel isn't with the small number of people brought here against their will.  It's with the HUGE numbers of people deliberately la-de-da-ing across our border to take advantage of us.

As for "100% successful", have you not figured out yet that if you make illegal immigration less desirable through measures like this, the lawbreakers police themselves?  Already, Sonora is bitching and whining at Arizona because our policies are making their people pack up and return to Mexico, which doesn't want the expense.  Awwwww.    Killing off the anchor baby loophole and making it clear that their problems and those of their children created by their lawbreaking is getting zero sympathy from us, and a lot more of them are suddenly going to decide that breaking our laws doesn't look so attractive, after all.



AVG-JOE said:


> Sounds expensive.



You mean, as opposed to harboring millions of illegal immigrants and making no effort to send them home?


----------



## AVG-JOE

Cecilie1200 said:


> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> They HAVE a country:  the one their parents are legal citizens of.  It is not our obligation to provide anyone with a country.
> 
> What you're asking is, "How long do people have to break the law before we let them get away with it?"  The answer is, "Forever."  I don't care how many generations of someone's family manage to get away with violating our laws.  They're still lawbreakers.  They need to go home.
> 
> 
> 
> How is that OUR problem?  Seems to me their frigging PARENTS need to be thinking about their future and well-being, rather than hanging out here, waiting for US to take care of their children.
> 
> What's that you say?  Your children and grandchildren might wind up with no home country if you stay?  THEN GO HOME.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you advocate deporting mother and child at the moment of discovery?  That's the only way it would work.  There would have to be a cold, zero tolerance policy of deporting any pregnant human females without papers, and putting forth a strong effort to hunt them down.  Harsh, especially in light of human trafficking, but it *would* work, ass-u-me-ing it was 100% successful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> NOW you're getting it.  Throw their illegal asses out the door the minute we find them, and actually behave as though finding them is a desirable thing.
> 
> As far as human trafficking goes, the United States already has provisions in its immigration laws - and rightly so, I feel - regarding asking for asylum.  My quarrel isn't with the small number of people brought here against their will.  It's with the HUGE numbers of people deliberately la-de-da-ing across our border to take advantage of us.
> 
> As for "100% successful", have you not figured out yet that if you make illegal immigration less desirable through measures like this, the lawbreakers police themselves?  Already, Sonora is bitching and whining at Arizona because our policies are making their people pack up and return to Mexico, which doesn't want the expense.  Awwwww.    Killing off the anchor baby loophole and making it clear that their problems and those of their children created by their lawbreaking is getting zero sympathy from us, and a lot more of them are suddenly going to decide that breaking our laws doesn't look so attractive, after all.
> 
> 
> 
> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds expensive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean, as opposed to harboring millions of illegal immigrants and making no effort to send them home?
Click to expand...


Sounds like you know what you want.  Good luck!


----------



## LilOlLady

*How Obama is Transforming America Through Immigration *By Mark Krikorian 
April 2010


President Obama and his allies have made no secret about their immigration goals: easy amnesty,* loose enforcement*, and ever-higher levels of legal immigration. One prominent labor leader has boasted that *continued mass immigration *"will solidify and expand the progressive coalition for the future."

In this penetrating Broadside, Mark Krikorian lays out the details of *Obama's open-borders approach to immigration* and its political consequences. Krikorian, one of the leading critics of current immigration policy, examines the *Administration's record of weakening enforcement* and describes how legislation crafted by the president's supporters in Congress would *ensure new waves of illegal immigration*. Krikorian also explains how *continued high levels of immigration*, regardless of legal status, would progressively move the United States in the direction of *more government and less liberty.*
How Obama is Transforming America Through Immigration | Center for Immigration Studies

This is a lie. It is a fact that *Since Obama took office *there has been more raids on businesses, *more deportations*, *more border security*, *less illegal crossings*, *more money spend on border security and enforcement.*. More has been done to curb illegal immigration since Obama took office. Reagan gave 3 million amnesty, not Obama. 

Republicans want a return to workplace immigration raids - Los Angeles Times

Deportation of illegal immigrants increases under Obama administration

Immigration Enforcement up under Obama


----------



## uscitizen

And just what changes to existing immifration rules, etc has The Obama administration made?

the OP article was quite vague, intentionally so it appears.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Serious Crimes of Illegal Aliens in Just One Year*
  January 21, 2011 by Border Narcotics Intelligence 

These aliens were all in the country illegally, and many of them had *previous encounters with law enforcement agencies*. But they were *not deported *or in some cases were *deported but reentered the country.*

*Better prevention from illegal immigration is a public safety issue*.


*This is a long, long list and just a few of them*


*November 2010*

 Ingmar Guandique, a Salvadoran illegal alien, was convicted of the murder in 2001 of Chandra Levy, a congressional staff member. Guandique was previously convicted of sexual assault on two other women in Rock Creek Park in Washington DC and was serving time in prison at the time of his murder conviction. (Washington Post, November 23, 2010)


 A Guatemalan illegal alien, Heydeman Armando Argueta-Godoy, who had been previously deported, was sentenced in Reno, Nevada to prison for attempted kidnapping of a jogger and teenage girls.


*October 2010*

 An illegal alien living in Seagrove, NC was found guilty of conspiracy to distribute cocaine and illegal possession of ammunition. Jose Juan Organes-Espino faces a sentence of up to 10-years in prison.


 Jorge Hernandez-Hernandez, a Mexican illegal immigrant, was sentenced in McAllen, Texas to 15 years in prison after pleading guilty to conspiracy in transporting illegal immigrants that resulted in the drowning deaths of nine Salvadoran and Honduran nationals in 2004. (Associated Press, October 28, 2010)


 Pedro Marcos Marcos, an illegal alien from Guatemala, entered pleas in Los Angeles to five felony counts, including hostage taking. He faces a sentence of up to life in prison. (Associated Press, October 27, 2010)&#8232;  An illegal Mexican immigrant, Samuel Juarez Cruz, pled guilty to third-degree murder and conspiracy charges in Pennsylvania. He is likely to be sentenced to 15 to 20 years in prison. (Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, October 22, 2010)


 Servando Alvarado-Casas, a Mexican illegal alien, was convicted in Texas for conspiring to transport illegal immigrants and was sentenced to 15 years, 10 months in prison. At the same time he was sentenced to 10 years in prison for a conviction of being a felon in possession of firearms. (Corpus Cristi Caller, October 21, 2010)


 A Mexican illegal alien, Juan Gabriel Rumbo Rosas, was sentenced in Seattle, Washington to ten years in prison for heroin distribution. Rumbo had prior convictions for narcotics distribution and had previously been deported. (Press Release, United States Attorneys Office, Western District of Washington, October 15, 2010)


 Brothers Hilario and Margarito Hernandez-Romero, Mexican illegal aliens living in Hyattsville Maryland, pled guilty to identification fraud and aggravated identity theft for making thousands of illegal identification documents for other illegal aliens. They were sentenced to four years in prison. (Washington Examiner, October 11, 2010)

*
September 2010*

 Arturo Lopez, a teenaged Mexican illegal alien, was found guilty of abducting and raping his foster mother in Richmond, Virginia. He was sentenced respectively to 10 and 20 years in prison on the two charges. (Richmond Times-Dispatch, September 23, 2010)


 Carlos Molinares-Nunez, a Mexican drug kingpin who fled to the United States to avoid assassination, pled guilty in Phoenix to two counts of continuing criminal enterprise and conspiracy. He was sentenced to 21 years imprisonment and forfeiture of $4,000,000 and property, vehicles, and jewelry seized in the United States. (FBI Press Release, Phoenix, September 3, 2010)


 Carlos Mauricio Ruano, an illegal immigrant from El Salvador, was sentenced to 35 years imprisonment for the rape of a 4-year-old family member in Leesburg, Virginia. He entered the country illegally in 2008. (Leesburg Today, September 1, 2010)


 Moises Ortiz-Castaneda, a Mexican illegal alien, pled guilty in Columbus, Indiana to felony domestic battery, resisting law enforcement, invasion of privacy and public intoxication, but the judge rejected the proposed three-year prison sentence and two years on probation because he had concerns about giving a probationary sentence to someone who had been deported and re-entered the country. Ortiz-Castaneda was deported from Arizona back to Mexico on May 16, 2002; June 18, 2002; July 18, 2002; Feb. 28, 2003; April 5, 2004; April 19, 2004; and April 1, 2005. (Republic, August 24, 2010)


*August 2010*

 Fabian Ruiz-Estrada, an illegal alien, was sentenced to 15-18 years in prison for sexual assault in Wyoming in 2009. He was found in prison in Colorado for an unspecified crime when he was tied to the rape by DNA. In addition to the prison and probation time, Ruiz-Estrada was ordered to pay $470 to the court in fees and assessments, and nearly $3,300 in restitution to cover the victims medical costs and counseling. (Powell Tribune, August 24, 2010)


 Celso Campo-Duartes, a Mexican illegal alien, was convicted of hit and run driving in 2005. The elderly pedestrian he hit died several months later while still hospitalized from the accident. In January 2008, he entered a negotiated plea to a charge of failure to stop at or return to the scene of an accident and was sentenced to two years in prison and three years of probation. In August 2009, he arrested for driving without a license and released the same day on bond. In October, he was arrested again on the same charge. Then May 28, 2010 he was charged with disorderly conduct and unlicensed driving. As Gwinnett County, Georgia now participates in the 287(g) program, Campo-Duartes is to be deported when the current charge of parole violation is resolved. (Atlanta Constitution Journal, August, 23 2010)


 Geoffry Kouevi, a West African immigrant, was sentenced to two years and two months in prison for conspiracy and visa fraud in connection to a human-trafficking ring that smuggled girls and women into New Jersey to work at hair-braiding salons in Newark and East Orange in a case investigators equated with modern-day slavery. The ring was run by Akouavi Kpade Afolabi, an immigrant from Togo, who was convicted in 2009. Afolabis ex-husband, Lassissi Afolabi, was sentenced last month to 24 years in prison for his role in the crime. Her son, Dereck Hounakey, also Togolese, was sentenced in June to four and 1/2 years. (Star-Ledger, August 18, 2010).


 Ricardo Velasquez, a Honduran illegal alien, who has two previous convictions in North Carolina, is currently being held on charges of having raped relatives who are 7 and 8 years old. His first conviction in 2004 resulted from reported breaking and entering and assault on a woman. He was convicted, however, only for interfering with a 911 emergency call. He was not sentenced to prison and, apparently, immigration authorities were not notified. In 2007, he was arrested and convicted of reckless driving under the influence and put on one year of unsupervised probation. This time immigration authorities were apparently notified and his illegal status was confirmed, but he was not considered a priority case, and was not taken into custody. (WBTV, Charlotte, NC August 12, 2010.)


 Melvin Alvarado, an illegal alien from El Salvador, who was deported in both 2008 and 2009 following drunk driving convictions, is charged with first degree murder in Houston for the shooting murder and robbery of a 14-year old girl. Also charged for the same crime is Jonathan Lopez-Torres, a legal resident from Honduras, who, if convicted, will also be deportable following imprisonment. (Houston Chronicle, August 12, 2010)&#8232; Faustino Chiquete-Reyes and Nestor Chiquete-Reyes, both Mexicans, pled guilty to hostage taking in connection with armed resistance to a police raid in Tucson, Arizona at an illegal alien stash house where smuggled aliens were being held hostage. Two others arrested at the same time were convicted earlier. (Arizona Daily Star, August 4, 2010)


*July 2010*

 Jose Joe Velasco, a Salvadoran illegal alien, was sentenced to four years in prison for his fourth drunk driving conviction. The charges against him also included assault on a police officer and resisting arrest as he tried to run down Loudoun County, Virginia sheriffs deputies and crashing into one of their vehicles when they attempted to detain him. (Washington Post, July 23, 2010)


 Rodolfo Godinez Gomez, a Nicaraguan illegal alien was convicted in Newark, New Jersey for the 2007 execution-style slayings of three persons and attempted murder of a fourth by members of the Mara Salvatrucha gang and was sentenced to three life terms plus 20 years. Godinez entered the United States in 1992 and was ordered deported in 1993. He was arrested as a juvenile for robbery in 1999 and was put on probation for 18 months. In 2002 he was arrested and indicted for aggravated assault, robbery and weapons possession. In 2003 he was arrested for robbery in Newark and sentenced to 18 months of probation. (Associated Press, July 8, 2010) Another of the gang members, Melvin Jovel, a Honduran, pled guilty to three counts of murder, one count of attempted murder and weapons charges and faces a sentence of lifetime in prison. (AP September 22, 2010)

*
June 2010*

 Ismael Lopez-Rodriguez, an illegal alien, was indicted for vehicular homicide in Dalton, Georgia. Charges against him included failure to register a car, failure to get a license, identity fraud, forgery and giving false information to authorities. Before he could be brought to trial he was released on bail and deported. (Dalton Daily Citizen, June 20, 2010)


 Maynor Quintanilla-Leon an illegal alien pled guilty to sexually exploiting a minor to produce child pornography in Prince Georges County, Maryland. He faces a sentence of between 15 and 30 years in prison. He also agreed as part of a plea bargain to be deported after he has completed his sentence. (Washington Post, June 4, 2010)


*May 2010*

 Rene Pinto Melendez, a Honduran illegal alien, pled guilty to second-degree murder, second-degree rape and felony larceny. At the time he committed the murder, he was out on bond awaiting trial on charges of drunken driving and had two earlier DWI convictions in Michigan using a different name. (WRAL.com News, June 4, 2010)


 Joel Eliazar Ortega, an illegal alien, was convicted in Reno Nevada to life in prison for dragging a paralyzed woman out of her wheelchair, raping her, and leaving her nude in an alley to die. (Reno Gazette, May 26, 2010)


 Jose Lopez Madrigal, a Mexican illegal alien, is in jail in Seattle charged with rape. His fingerprints established that he has been deported nine times since 1989 when he was deported following a conviction for armed robbery. His other convictions included narcotics trafficking and sexual assault. (KING5 TV News, May 21, 2010)

*
April 2010*

 Christian Daniel Castro Alvarez, a Mexican teenager, pled guilty to killing a Border Patrol agent. He was sentenced to 40 years in prison in San Diego. (Los Angeles Times, April 30, 2010)


 Enrique Mendez, an illegal immigrantwith at least five previous arrests for driving while under the influence of alcohol notched his sixth arrest Saturday night when a trooper stopped him for a traffic violation in Westchester NY and determined he was intoxicated. His license was suspended after his last DWI conviction. There is now a federal immigration detainer to put him into deportation proceedings. (LoHud.com [Lower Hudson] April 13, 2010)


 Ten illegal aliens pled guilty to conspiracy to commit mail fraud by filing fake income tax returns in North and South Carolina that bilked the federal government of about $13 million. Of those identified, eight were Mexican (Edgar Carrillo-Borjas, Miguel Angel Carrillo-Borjas, David Hernandez-Juarez, Ariana Canseco-Orozco, Maribel Juan-Orozco, Cristina Sanchez-Perez, Juan Carlos Carrillo-Roy, Carlos Carrillo-Rodriguez) and one was Costa Rican (Luis Gerardo Mora-Vargas). (Greenville News, April 2, 2010)


 Efrain Gomez-Gomez, a Honduran illegal alien, was sentenced to 42 years in prison for two sexual assaults in Phoenix in 2009 and the attempted kidnapping in 2007 of a teenage girl. (KOLD News, April 7, 2010)


*March 2010*

 Hector Salina, a Mexican illegal alien, was convicted in Bellingham Washington of rape and faces a life sentence as a three-strike offender. He previously had been convicted of robbery and assault and had been deported at least five times. (Bellingham Herald, May 28, 2010)


 Neftali Urrutia-Barrera, an illegal alien member of the MS-13 gang, was sentenced to 60 years imprisonment for two of a string of crimes in Northern Virginia committed in 2008. Testimony established that on Sept. 17, 2008 he shot and wounded three persons he thought were members of a rival gang. One of the victims, who was not a gang member, resulted paralyzed from the waist down. On Oct. 6, 2008: he and two other MS-13 members shot three people, one of whom was not a member of a rival gang, in Reston. At the time of his conviction for those crimes, he was already imprisoned for the near fatal knifing of a man mistakenly identified as a rival gang member later in October in Richmond. (Loudon County Times, March 31, 2010)


 Santana Batiz-Aceves, a Mexican illegal alien, pled guilty in Arizona to 12 of 47 counts including child molestation, sexual conduct with a minor, kidnapping, aggravated assault and burglary from June 2006 to November 2007. Batiz-Aceves agreed to a 168-year prison sentence as part of a plea agreement. (AP in Washington Post, March 1, 2010)


*February 2010*

 Francis Hernandez, a Guatemalan illegal alien, was found guilty in Colorado of vehicular homicide and other charges relating to the death of three people in a crash he caused when he ran a red light driving 80 mph in a 40-mph zone. Hernandez had a dozen prior arrests but avoided identification as an illegal alien by using 12 aliases and two dates of birth. He was sentenced to 60 years in prison. (AP in New York Times, February 23, 2010)


 Leonardo DeLeon, aka Cristan Reconco-Solorzano, a Honduran illegal alien, pled guilty in Myrtle Beach, Florida to illegally reentering the country. He was convicted of attempted murder in Texas in 1999 and deported in 2001. When he was arrested, he was active in the Mexican Mafia street gang. He faces a sentence of up to 20 years in prison. (The Sun News, February 11, 2010)


 Felix Montoya, a Colombian illegal alien, was sentenced in Pennsylvania to life in prison plus 20 40 years for raping a 5-year-old girl. (The Times Tribune, February 2, 2010)


*January 2010*

 Heydeman Armando Argueta-Godoy, a Guatemalan illegal alien who had been previously deported, pled guilty to attempted kidnapping in South Reno. He tried to lure a 13 and a 14-year old girl into his truck and subsequently tried to kidnap a woman jogger using gardening shears. He was sentenced to 11 years in prison. (The Reno Gazette-Journal, January 27, 2010)


 Jose Felix Huerta-Valdez, an illegal alien, pled guilty to possession with intent to distribute methamphetamine. He was arrested in Woodburn, Oregon and sentenced to six and one-half years in prison. (The Statesman Journal, January 27, 2010)


 Conses Garcia Zacarias, an illegal alien, pled guilty in Carmel, New York to vehicular homicide (DWI) in the deaths of a mother and daughter. He was sentenced to eight years and four months in prison. (AP at WCAX, January 13, 2010)


 Jesus Anguiano Robles, an illegal alien, pled guilty to possession of methamphetamine with intent to distribute in Dallas, Texas. Anguiano was previously deported at least nine times and had a previous drug conviction as well as convictions for assault with a firearm, hit and run with property damage, giving a false name to a police officer, carrying a concealed weapon and receiving stolen property. He faces a sentence of up to 10 years in prison. (Dallas Morning News, January 1, 2010)

AND THIS IS JUST IN ONE YEAR!!! 

Serious Crimes of Illegal Aliens in Just One Year | Border Narcotics Intelligence


----------



## LilOlLady

*Cartels On The High Ground In Arizona*
Posted on January 21, 2011 by Border Narcotics Intelligence 

Mexican drug cartels have set up shop on American soil, maintaining lookout bases in strategic locations in the hills of southern Arizona from which their scouts can monitor every move made by law enforcement officials, federal agents tell Fox News.



Cartels On The High Ground In Arizona | Border Narcotics Intelligence


----------



## LilOlLady

deleted


----------



## Jos

You missed out screwing the pooch


----------



## Douger

LilOlLady said:


> *Cartels On The High Ground In Arizona*
> Posted on January 21, 2011 by Border Narcotics Intelligence
> 
> Mexican drug cartels have set up shop on American soil, maintaining lookout bases in strategic locations in the hills of southern Arizona from which their scouts can monitor every move made by law enforcement officials, federal agents tell Fox News.
> 
> 
> 
> Cartels On The High Ground In Arizona | Border Narcotics Intelligence


Blackhawk with 7.62 and heat detection/infrared. Problem over.
They don't want that. You'll understand why, soon enough.


----------



## LilOlLady

Jos said:


> You missed out screwing the pooch



Was that a crime?


----------



## LilOlLady

*DONALD TRUMP ON ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.*On Piers Morgan last night.

Mr. Trump; *They come here, go to Yale and Harvard and them we send the home. *Harvard and Yale has never been raided for illegal aliens. There have not been one instant of an illegal attending Harvard or Yale being deported. Illegal aliens attending Yale and Harvard?  Dont you have to at least speak English to get in to Yale and Harvard. Most illegal aliens are high school drop outs. How many illegal aliens are attending Yale or Harvard anyway?

When I think I hear the ridiculous from right winger, I hear something even more ridiculous. 
Joke of the century? *Trump for president*.
Trump has shifty eyes and *one with shifty eyes cannot be trusted and is not truthful*.
Illegal alien recieves $50 grand per year to attend Harvard. (2009, born, illegal aliens) - Illegal Immigration - City-Data Forum
I am an illegal immigrant. - College Confidential


----------



## whitehall

The dirty little secret that you may have missed LOL, or maybe you jumped the gun on this one, is that the left is promoting Trump as a possible GOP nominee at least on this forum.


----------



## FifthColumn

LilOlLady said:


> *Serious Crimes of Illegal Aliens in Just One Year*
> AND THIS IS JUST IN ONE YEAR!!!
> 
> Serious Crimes of Illegal Aliens in Just One Year | Border Narcotics Intelligence


 
The problem is that you must show the American people what has happened in the US due to these invaders since 1986, the year Regan gave them a break.


----------



## LilOlLady

whitehall said:


> The *dirty little secret *that you may have missed LOL, or maybe you jumped the gun on this one, is that the left is promoting Trump as a possible GOP nominee *at least on this forum*.



Does not change who he is. If it's coming from the left, it's still ridiculous.
I calls it like I sees it no matter if they are right or left. Could he be a right wing liberal?


----------



## LostAmerican

LilOlLady said:


> *DONALD TRUMP ON ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.*On Piers Morgan last night.
> 
> Mr. Trump; *They come here, go to Yale and Harvard and them we send the home. *Harvard and Yale has never been raided for illegal aliens. There have not been one instant of an illegal attending Harvard or Yale being deported. Illegal aliens attending Yale and Harvard? Dont you have to at least speak English to get in to Yale and Harvard. Most illegal aliens are high school drop outs. How many illegal aliens are attending Yale or Harvard anyway?
> 
> When I think I hear the ridiculous from right winger, I hear something even more ridiculous.
> Joke of the century? *Trump for president*.
> Trump has shifty eyes and *one with shifty eyes cannot be trusted and is not truthful*.


 
The only candidates for US citizen should be those who openly support the United States as it is, including an immigration policy which favors the allies of the American people first, the people of the poorest of countries second, and the illegal invaders NEVER!


----------



## LilOlLady

*Arizona Senate panel OKs illegal immigration bill* 
Share
 By BOB CHRISTIE and PAUL DAVENPORT, Associated Press Bob Christie And Paul Davenport, Associated Press  Wed Feb 23, 2:54 am ET

PHOENIX  An Arizona legislative committee on Tuesday narrowly approved a sweeping bill that would target illegal immigrants in *public housing, public benefits and the workplace*.

The Senate committee also approved a bill that would deny *automatic citizenship to the children of illegal immigrants,* a measure *designed to set up a possible U.S. Supreme Court case on the issue*.

Republican state Sen. Russell Pearce, who authored Arizona's controversial illegal immigration law last year that touched off a nationwide debate on whether states can enforce federal immigration laws, sponsored the latest measure.

"*If you're in the country illegally, you don't have a right to public benefits, period*," he said.

Passing the bill would place a *"dark cloud over Arizona that will make SB1070 tame in comparison," *said Jaime Farrant of the Border Action Network, an advocacy group, referring to last year's controversial law.

The new sweeping measure, approved on a 7-6 vote, advances to the full Senate after a legal review and discussions by party caucuses. *Democrats by themselves don't have the votes to block Pearce's bill.*

The measure *toughens requirements *for employers checking work eligibility of new hires, allowing for their *business licenses to be suspended *if they don't use the federal *E-Verify system*. Workers caught using a false identity to get a job would face *mandatory six-month jail sentences*.

It also *requires schools to collect information on the legal status of students *and *report them to law enforcement *if their parents don't provide the necessary documents or the documents appear false.

The bill also seeks a *30-day minimum jail sentence *and the *seizure of vehicles belonging to any illegal immigrant convicted of driving in the state.*

In housing, it requires public agencies to *verify the immigration status of renters *and to *evict everyone living in a unit if one is found to be an illegal immigrant*. For health care, the bill changes some of the document requirements for the state's Medicaid program.

The bill *turns public officials into immigration officers *and "launches an unprecedented attack on minorities and people of color," Farrant said.

But the chairman of the Appropriations Committee, Republican Sen. Andy Biggs, said the bill was a response *"to economic and social costs that we face with the onslaught of illegal aliens in our state."*

"We need to have the *moral courage to deal with this issu*e when there is a vacuum at the federal," he said.

The bill drew vocal opposition from Democrats who said Pearce  the Senate's president  isn't focused on Republicans' stated top priority: *the economy*.

"This is totally the wrong time for the leader of our Senate to throw our state into another state of chaos," said Democratic Sen. Paula Aboud of Tucson.

The topic brought protesters to the state Capitol, where about a dozen uniformed police officers were stationed in and around the building. Police said four people were arrested and cited for disorderly conduct after disrupting a Democratic senator's news conference about her bill *stiffening penalties for a human smuggling crime*.

Sponsors of the automatic citizenship bill approved by the Senate panel hope it will* prompt a court interpretation on an element of the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution*, which guarantees citizenship to people born in the country or who are "subject to the jurisdiction" of the U.S.

Bill proponents said the amendment shouldn't apply to the children of illegal immigrants because *such families don't owe sole allegiance to the U.S*. 

An hours-long debate centered on whether the measure would save Arizona money by *keeping children of illegal immigrants from potentially burdening the state *with the costs of benefits that go to citizens. 

"Constantly I'm asked by my constituents, 'Why is it that when illegal aliens sneak into this country their children are automatically citizens?'" said the bill's Republican sponsor, Sen. Ron Gould of Lake Havasu City. 

But the leader of the *Arizona Chamber of Commerce *said lawmakers should focus their efforts on measures similar to the jobs bill they recently approved. 

"We believe this case is one which would not get very far, and we are very, very, concerned about the economic consequences of this measure," said Glenn Hamer, the Chamber's chief executive. 

An accompanying proposal was also approved by the committee that would establish an interstate compact that defines who is a U.S. citizen and asks states to issue separate birth certificates for those who are citizens and those who are designated as not citizens. 

Similar proposals defining who would get automatic citizenship have been introduced by lawmakers in *Indiana, Mississippi, Texas, Oklahoma and South Dakota*. Backers expect another dozen states will take up the issue this year. 

The committee also approved a bill to *require hospitals to report to law enforcement any patients who lack valid health insurance and who cannot show they're in the country legally*. 

The bill originally barred non-emergency treatment without proof of legal status but was amended to *only require reporting*. 

Supporters said it still would *help reduce health care costs *and *burdens on taxpayers*. Critics said it could deter some people from seeking needed care.

Arizona Senate panel OKs illegal immigration bill - Yahoo! News

Thank you Arizona, I will pass this on the Nevada State Leaders.


----------



## Tank

Obama's going to sue America again.


----------



## LilOlLady

Tank said:


> Obama's going to sue America again.



Ironic they have not filed suit against other states that have pass similiar laws? Soon they will give up if enough states follow Ariz. Suit against Arizona law SB1070 is not final yet.


----------



## CMike

The nerve! Not allowing *illegal *immigrants taxpayer funded benefits.


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## LostAmerican

Now start the offensive against Latin American loyal politicians in the US. Start nailing them for treason.


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## Omaha

Tank said:


> Obama's going to sue America again.




At least the leaders of Arizona has the balls to fight for whats right and whats good for it's residents. These bills are only the begining, look for even more evasive measures to be introduced to State Congress. Unfortunatly we my never see a real knock out blow from our Federal Government, like the repeal of the NAFTA ACT, or dening the import of goods from Mexico, closing the border, placing armed troops on our borders, mass deportations or full economic santions imposed on Mexico. During these poor economic times American need to devote all its attention to whats best for Americans, financialy supporting illegals(housing,foodstamps,health care and education) should not even be an issue. America needs to stop acting like Daddy Warbucks and take on a new persona(one that clearly says if you come here illegally you will receive nothing but a bus trip back to the border). Some of you refer to the past at the piss poor atempts at securing our borders and locating, detaining, and deporting illegals, well now you cry like little girls because AZ is tightening the noose, tuff shit we are going to stop fighting this subject. Next we go after those polititions who support illegal immagration, and to stop illegals from voting while in this country under an asumed name(identity theift, another crimanal act) to insure that only legal residents vote espescially in border towns and areas heavily populated by hispanics. This would make it less likely for pro illegal polititions to be voted into office. Keep your eyes on AZ we're not making escuses or ignoring the issue, instead we're rocking the boat and forcing our government to bring these issues to the forefront and stop dodging how to bring a stop to illegal immigation.


----------



## Omaha

LostAmerican said:


> Now start the offensive against Latin American loyal politicians in the US. Start nailing them for treason.



If your a politition and dont uphold the Constitution then you sould be charged with treason, you personal views should not come before the law.


----------



## Tank

I once had ants in my house, I found what they were eating, I took it away and they left.


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## Omaha

Tank said:


> I once had ants in my house, I found what they were eating, I took it away and they left.



Unfortunaly we're not dealing with ants we have roaches, their mush harder to get rid of.


----------



## LostAmerican

Omaha said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> I once had ants in my house, I found what they were eating, I took it away and they left.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunaly we're not dealing with ants we have roaches, their mush harder to get rid of.
Click to expand...

 
When I was a kid, I took a can of hairspray and a lighter and flamed a bunch of ants attacking my property. They never came back and the word got out to the other ants: "Stay away from this crazy mother f........!"


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## LilOlLady

25 January 2011 
*Arizona busts Mexico gun-running network* 

*Mexico has far stricter gun laws than the US *


The authorities in US state of Arizona say they have broken up a gun-running network that was smuggling weapons to Mexican drugs gangs. 

At least 17 people have been arrested in and around the city of Phoenix.

The suspects are accused of conspiring to buy firearms, including assault rifles, for Mexico's Sinaloa cartel.

The US is under pressure to curb the flow of guns into Mexico, where more than 15,000 people were killed in drug-related violence last year

A federal grand jury indictment unsealed on Tuesday alleged the suspects had conspired to buy guns and illegally export them to Mexico for use by drug cartels.

They are accused of acting as "straw purchasers" by claiming the weapons they bought from licensed Arizona gun shops were for their own use, when in fact they were destined for the Sinaloa cartel, the prosecutor's office said.

"The massive size of this operation sadly exemplifies the magnitude of the problem - Mexican drug lords go shopping for weapons of war in Arizona," the statement added. 

The guns included AK-47 assault rifles, a weapon of choice for drug cartel gunmen. 

*All of those indicted are US citizens or legal residents*.

The indictment came a day after US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton visited to Mexico to reiterate US support for President Felipe Calderon's fight against the cartels.

Mexico has long been pressing the US to do more to stop the flow of guns across the border. 

Since President Calderon took office in late 2006, more than 34,000 people have died in drug-related violence in Mexico, the government says.

In the same period, Mexico's police and army have seized more *93,000 guns* from alleged drug traffickers. Many of the weapons the authorities are able to trace *originate in the US*. 
BBC News - Arizona busts Mexico gun-running network

*It appears that massive amounts were bought for "personal" use
This has been going on for years. Known by ATF. 125 guns for "personal" use? I cannot yet find the article on the news this morning.*?


----------



## LilOlLady

*ATF&#8217;s attempt to slow gun trafficking rejected*
Denial comes after 17 senators criticize proposal
Feb. 9, 2011 

The *White House budget office has delivered a blow to the federal agency charged with regulating gun stores,* rejecting its emergency request designed to slow gun trafficking into Mexico.

The Office of Management and Budget notified the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives last week that its request to require gun stores in four border states to report the *multiple sales of certain long guns *favored by Mexican cartels *did not constitute an emergency under the law*

----,straw buyers purchased as many as *40 AK-47s at a time*, headed for Mexico

ATF

, straw buyers purchased as many as 40 AK-47s at a time, headed for Mexico


----------



## LostAmerican

LilOlLady said:


> *ATFs attempt to slow gun trafficking rejected*
> Denial comes after 17 senators criticize proposal
> Feb. 9, 2011
> 
> The *White House budget office has delivered a blow to the federal agency charged with regulating gun stores,* rejecting its emergency request designed to slow gun trafficking into Mexico.
> 
> The Office of Management and Budget notified the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives last week that its request to require gun stores in four border states to report the *multiple sales of certain long guns *favored by Mexican cartels *did not constitute an emergency under the law*
> 
> ----,straw buyers purchased as many as *40 AK-47s at a time*, headed for Mexico
> 
> ATF
> 
> , straw buyers purchased as many as 40 AK-47s at a time, headed for Mexico


 
And the gun stores warned the ATF of this guy buying the guns!!!


----------



## Mini 14

LostAmerican said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *ATFs attempt to slow gun trafficking rejected*
> Denial comes after 17 senators criticize proposal
> Feb. 9, 2011
> 
> The *White House budget office has delivered a blow to the federal agency charged with regulating gun stores,* rejecting its emergency request designed to slow gun trafficking into Mexico.
> 
> The Office of Management and Budget notified the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives last week that its request to require gun stores in four border states to report the *multiple sales of certain long guns *favored by Mexican cartels *did not constitute an emergency under the law*
> 
> ----,straw buyers purchased as many as *40 AK-47s at a time*, headed for Mexico
> 
> ATF
> 
> , straw buyers purchased as many as 40 AK-47s at a time, headed for Mexico
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the gun stores warned the ATF of this guy buying the guns!!!
Click to expand...


The dealer is a BIG part of the problem there.

Anyone who walks into my store and wants to buy 40 AKs is going to leave with nothing, and a LEO on his tail.

And after he's bought more than a few from me, he'll be sent to Bass Pro for the next ones.

Buying a gun is not a right, and selling one is not an obligation. 

Any responsible dealer would have refused the transaction, and if the dealer suspected these were straw purchases and went through with them anyway, their license should be revoked and they should be in jail.


----------



## LostAmerican

Mini 14 said:


> LostAmerican said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *ATFs attempt to slow gun trafficking rejected*
> Denial comes after 17 senators criticize proposal
> Feb. 9, 2011
> 
> The *White House budget office has delivered a blow to the federal agency charged with regulating gun stores,* rejecting its emergency request designed to slow gun trafficking into Mexico.
> 
> The Office of Management and Budget notified the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives last week that its request to require gun stores in four border states to report the *multiple sales of certain long guns *favored by Mexican cartels *did not constitute an emergency under the law*
> 
> ----,straw buyers purchased as many as *40 AK-47s at a time*, headed for Mexico
> 
> ATF
> 
> , straw buyers purchased as many as 40 AK-47s at a time, headed for Mexico
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the gun stores warned the ATF of this guy buying the guns!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The dealer is a BIG part of the problem there.
> 
> Anyone who walks into my store and wants to buy 40 AKs is going to leave with nothing, and a LEO on his tail.
> 
> And after he's bought more than a few from me, he'll be sent to Bass Pro for the next ones.
> 
> Buying a gun is not a right, and selling one is not an obligation.
> 
> Any responsible dealer would have refused the transaction, and if the dealer suspected these were straw purchases and went through with them anyway, their license should be revoked and they should be in jail.
Click to expand...

 
I've noticed the average white American walks into a gun store to purchase a gun alone. 

The average Mexican brings 4 to 6 "buddies". 

I've heard that gun store owner say as the Mexicans walk out without a purchase, "Yeah, like I would really sell those gangbangers a gun!"


----------



## Nate

> The indictment came a day after US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton visited to Mexico to reiterate US support for President Felipe Calderon's fight against the cartels.
> 
> Mexico has long been pressing the US to do more to stop the flow of guns across the border.
> 
> Since President Calderon took office in late 2006, more than 34,000 people have died in drug-related violence in Mexico, the government says.



This is why the rest of the world sees us as a joke! Our Fed goverment doesn't care what happens South of our border... Hell, they don't really care what's happening to our Southern States for that matter! If they(Fed gov) devoted a tenth of our military power that's deployed across this world to our borders to stop the flow of illegals and to combat those terrorists who call themselves 'cartels' this problem wouldn't last a year longer and both the U.S. and Mexico can pull themselves out of the economic shithole we find ourselves in.
And after the dust has settled and we've picked ourselves up, lets work on that damn NAFTA fiasco... Canada's been living too pretty off the blood, sweat, and tears of the U.S. and Mexico's agriculture/industry divisions!!


----------



## LostAmerican

Nate said:


> The indictment came a day after US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton visited to Mexico to reiterate US support for President Felipe Calderon's fight against the cartels.
> 
> Mexico has long been pressing the US to do more to stop the flow of guns across the border.
> 
> Since President Calderon took office in late 2006, more than 34,000 people have died in drug-related violence in Mexico, the government says.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is why the rest of the world sees us as a joke! Our Fed goverment doesn't care what happens South of our border... Hell, they don't really care what's happening to our Southern States for that matter! If they(Fed gov) devoted a tenth of our military power that's deployed across this world to our borders to stop the flow of illegals and to combat those terrorists who call themselves 'cartels' this problem wouldn't last a year longer and both the U.S. and Mexico can pull themselves out of the economic shithole we find ourselves in.
> And after the dust has settled and we've picked ourselves up, lets work on that damn NAFTA fiasco... Canada's been living too pretty off the blood, sweat, and tears of the U.S. and Mexico's agriculture/industry divisions!!
Click to expand...

 
The Russian and Chinese Army could be sneaking in from south of the border and Obama would order the Border Patrol to take a long lunch break.


----------



## jckryan

LostAmerican said:


> Omaha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> I once had ants in my house, I found what they were eating, I took it away and they left.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunaly we're not dealing with ants we have roaches, their mush harder to get rid of.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When I was a kid, I took a can of hairspray and a lighter and flamed a bunch of ants attacking my property. They never came back and the word got out to the other ants: "Stay away from this crazy mother f........!"
Click to expand...



Can you get the Giant Red ants to start colonies along the border?


----------



## Binky

Omaha said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obama's going to sue America again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least the leaders of Arizona has the balls to fight for whats right and whats good for it's residents. These bills are only the begining, look for even more evasive measures to be introduced to State Congress. Unfortunatly we my never see a real knock out blow from our Federal Government, like the repeal of the NAFTA ACT, or dening the import of goods from Mexico, closing the border, placing armed troops on our borders, mass deportations or full economic santions imposed on Mexico. During these poor economic times American need to devote all its attention to whats best for Americans, financialy supporting illegals(housing,foodstamps,health care and education) should not even be an issue. America needs to stop acting like Daddy Warbucks and take on a new persona(one that clearly says if you come here illegally you will receive nothing but a bus trip back to the border). Some of you refer to the past at the piss poor atempts at securing our borders and locating, detaining, and deporting illegals, well now you cry like little girls because AZ is tightening the noose, tuff shit we are going to stop fighting this subject. Next we go after those polititions who support illegal immagration, and to stop illegals from voting while in this country under an asumed name(identity theift, another crimanal act) to insure that only legal residents vote espescially in border towns and areas heavily populated by hispanics. This would make it less likely for pro illegal polititions to be voted into office. Keep your eyes on AZ we're not making escuses or ignoring the issue, instead we're rocking the boat and forcing our government to bring these issues to the forefront and stop dodging how to bring a stop to illegal immigation.
Click to expand...


In a perfect world the federal gov't would "manup" and do what is expected of it.  But alas, this is not a perfect world.  The votes and payoffs are far more attractive than actually having to do something positive about our illegal problem.  It's a lot more fun to sit back pretending there is no problem than to face up to it like grownups and work towards fixing it.


----------



## LilOlLady

*U.S. Student Became Mexican Drug Kingpin*

By JAMES C. McKINLEY Jr. and ELISABETH MALKIN
Published: September 8, 2010

LAREDO, Tex. &#8212; The other children in his middle-class suburb teased him by calling him Barbie because of his looks, which reminded them of a Ken doll. The name stuck, and three decades later it would become associated with *sadistic gangland slayings*. 

Few people who knew Edgar Valdez Villarreal back when he was a square-jawed football star at United High School here would have pegged him as likely to become one of Mexico&#8217;s most feared and savage drug leaders. None of the clichéd roots of crime could be seen is his youth: no broken home, no abusive father, no poverty. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/09/us/09barbie.html

_________________________________________________________________________
PS.
*Anti-illegal/ anti-illegal immigration IS NOT anti-immigrant / anti-legal immigration or anti-Hispanic*.
Why do Hispanics have to come here at all? I am listening to *Hispanics and Immigraitn Policy* on C-SPAN 2 in *Coral Gables, Florida *and I am getting pissed. Why do they keep calling illegal aliens "immigrants"?


----------



## LilOlLady

I am hearing we need Comprehensive Immigration Reform, not amnesty but a temporary worker program. Now listen to this. All 20 million that are here on a temporary workers program for 5 years and then after 10 years if they have been good can apply for path to citizenship? If thats is not amnesty, I don't know what is.
I think I am going to be sick. Excuse me.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Houston Police Officer Shot During Drug Raid *was a Hero in a Prior HPD Officer's Shooting

By Bob Price 
Feb 24, 2011 

In an odd twist of fate, the Houston Police Officer, Nash Patel who was shot today during the execution of a narcotics raid as part of a nationwide strike against Mexican drug cartels (Operation Bombardier) was a hero in a previous drug cartel raid in which HPD Officer Rick Salter was shot and critically wounded.

In October of 2008, Officer Salter was the first through the door on a drug raid in Houston.  He was shot in the face at point blank range by an illegal alien drug dealer who had previous dealings with HPD yet remained in the US.  *Officer Nash Patel, who was shot in today's raid, was *right behind Salter and lifted Salter up on his shoulder and carried him to the safety of a nearby ambulance perhaps saving his life.

Today, the tables were turned and someone else had to help Officer Nash to safety after he was shot.  Fortunately, Officer Nash's injuries appear to be much less severe and it appears he will make a full recovery.  

It is Houston Mayor, Annise Parker and her police chief, Charles McClelland who may have actually dodged a bullet today. During her campaign for mayor, Parker promised to implement the ICE program 287g to help remove criminal illegal aliens from our streets. Her second week in office, I appeared before City Council and asked Mayor Parker if she was going to live up to her promise.  She assured me, and the public, that as soon as she hired her new chief, that would be a top priority. She then, instead, followed the leadership of her predicessor by hiring one of Chief Harold Hurt's assistants to be her new chief.  At that point, things changed and Mayor Parker announced Houston would instead be staying with the "Secure Communities" program implemented by Mayor White and Chief Hurt.

As of this writing, I am waiting for information about the criminal drug dealer who shot Officer Patel. It has been reported that the *drug dealer is an illegal alien*. Was this person previously in the custody of HPD?  Had he been* previously deported *and allowed back into the country because of *lax border security*?  What opportunities have authorities had to previously remove this criminal from our streets?  

These are question we will find the answers to and report back to you. In the mean time, thank God Nash Patel is going to survive and return to the work he loves.  And thank God he was there that day when Rick Salter needed his help.  Police *officers watch each other's backs even when city officials won't*.

Today's raid was part of a nationwide response to the murder of a ICE Agent Jaime Zapata in Mexico earlier this month.  We will have more on this operation later.




Houston Police Officer Shot During Drug Raid was a Hero in a Prior HPD Officer&#039;s Shooting | Texas GOP Vote
*So much for "hard working immigrants who only come here to make a better life for their families" s***.*


----------



## LilOlLady

*Expansion begins at largest U.S.-Mexico border crossing* 
Share
By Marty Graham Marty Graham
Thu Feb 24, 
Expansion begins at largest U.S.-Mexico border crossing - Yahoo! News

*This only means more illegals and drugs will be getting in quicker. More guns and drug money will get out quicker. One line will make it harder and more will stop trying to get in and out.*


----------



## LilOlLady

*All of California now linked up to immigration enforcement network*

By Matt O'Brien
Contra Costa Times

Posted: 02/25/2011   

MARTINEZ -- The *federal immigration agency *has finally linked all California police agencies to reveal immigrants -- legal or not -- *arrested for violating laws and subject to deportation*.

The action, to be announced Friday morning in Southern California, enables U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE, to tag arrests and travel to all of the state's county jails to pick up immigrants accused of committing crimes.

In essence, *local police, willingly or not, have become an arm of the federal immigration agency.*

*A little to late. What took them so damn long?*


----------



## jckryan

LilOlLady said:


> *All of California now linked up to immigration enforcement network*
> 
> By Matt O'Brien
> Contra Costa Times
> 
> Posted: 02/25/2011
> 
> MARTINEZ -- The *federal immigration agency *has finally linked all California police agencies to reveal immigrants -- legal or not -- *arrested for violating laws and subject to deportation*.
> 
> The action, to be announced Friday morning in Southern California, enables U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE, to tag arrests and travel to all of the state's county jails to pick up immigrants accused of committing crimes.
> 
> In essence, *local police, willingly or not, have become an arm of the federal immigration agency.*
> 
> *A little to late. What took them so damn long?*




Did you post somewhere that you have Mexican or Mexican-American friends or relatives?


----------



## LilOlLady

jckryan said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *All of California now linked up to immigration enforcement network*
> 
> By Matt O'Brien
> Contra Costa Times
> 
> Posted: 02/25/2011
> 
> MARTINEZ -- The *federal immigration agency *has finally linked all California police agencies to reveal immigrants -- legal or not -- *arrested for violating laws and subject to deportation*.
> 
> The action, to be announced Friday morning in Southern California, enables U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE, to tag arrests and travel to all of the state's county jails to pick up immigrants accused of committing crimes.
> 
> In essence, *local police, willingly or not, have become an arm of the federal immigration agency.*
> 
> *A little to late. What took them so damn long?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you post somewhere that you have Mexican or Mexican-American friends or relatives?
Click to expand...


YES?? Some legal and some illegal.


----------



## jckryan

LilOlLady said:


> jckryan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *All of California now linked up to immigration enforcement network*
> 
> By Matt O'Brien
> Contra Costa Times
> 
> Posted: 02/25/2011
> 
> MARTINEZ -- The *federal immigration agency *has finally linked all California police agencies to reveal immigrants -- legal or not -- *arrested for violating laws and subject to deportation*.
> 
> The action, to be announced Friday morning in Southern California, enables U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE, to tag arrests and travel to all of the state's county jails to pick up immigrants accused of committing crimes.
> 
> In essence, *local police, willingly or not, have become an arm of the federal immigration agency.*
> 
> *A little to late. What took them so damn long?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you post somewhere that you have Mexican or Mexican-American friends or relatives?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YES?? Some legal and some illegal.
Click to expand...



It was a simple question. Nothing to get amped up about. 

Have you ever sat down with any of them and talked about these issues? Maybe over coffee, tea, lemonade or beer?


----------



## LilOlLady

Bill would make hiring illegal workers a felony
By SOMMER INGRAM 

Associated Press 

AUSTIN -- A state representative from Houston has filed a bill that would make it a state jail felony to knowingly hire an illegal immigrant -- *unless the person is a domestic worker*. 

Republican Rep. Debbie Riddle has long fought for a tougher stance on illegal immigration. The bill she authored would penalize those who *knowingly or recklessly hire* or *contract with an undocumented worker*. 

But jobs like *maids, landscapers and other domestic positions *within a family home would be *exempt.* 

Critics say it *exposes the hypocrisy of lawmakers *who vow to crack down on illegal immigration but want to create a loophole for Americans benefitting from household services. 
Bill would make hiring illegal workers a felony
*
I thougt is was already a felony?*

*From what I hear from alien advocated is those are the only jobs illegal aliens are doing?*



Federal Immigration and Nationality Act
Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii)

"Any person who . . . encourages or induces an alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."

Section 274 *felonies* under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):

A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:

* assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or

* encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by *acting as employer *or agent for an employer in any way, or

* knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.


----------



## BolshevikHunter

It would be a good start to solving this problem. ~BH


----------



## LilOlLady

*Mexican Senate rejects tough immigration proposals*
 Share
Thu Feb 24,  MEXICO CITY &#8211; Mexico's Senate has approved a bill offering illegal immigrants greater rights, while stripping out controversial proposals that would have toughened enforcement measures.

The legislation would guarantee education, health care and more equal treatment for migrants in Mexico. It still must be approved by the lower house.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-25/mexican-senate-rejects-tough-immigration-proposals.html


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## LostAmerican

lilollady said:


> *a little to late. What took them so damn long?*


 
*la raza*​


----------



## LostAmerican

LilOlLady said:


> Section 274 *felonies* under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):
> 
> A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:
> 
> * assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or
> 
> * encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by *acting as employer *or agent for an employer in any way, or
> 
> * knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions. .


 
Now go and arrest Luis Gutierrez and his people! 

Until the threat of an outraged America threatens war with Mexico, nothing will happen!


​


----------



## editec

Make hiring them illegal regardless of what their jobs.

Giving the RICH a pass so they can hire illegals as personaL servants is CLASSISM to the EXTREME


----------



## LilOlLady

January 27, 2010 
*Illegal Immigrants Due Workers Comp Benefits *

Two illegal immigrants are entitled to workers compensation benefits despite flaws in tax documents they filed, a Florida appellate court has ruled in separate cases.

In Rene Stone Work Corp. and Florida Citrus Business & Industry and USIS v. Nelson Gonzalez, an employer and insurer argued that the claimant who underwent a partial left leg amputation because of a 2008 accident was not entitled to an average weekly wage of $290, as determined by a compensation claims judge.

Illegal Immigrants Due Workers' Comp Benefits | Human Resources News Information


----------



## LilOlLady

*WHATS WRONG WITH COM. IMMIG. REFORM?*

Where do I start? *Jobs.* Putting 20 million plus illegal aliens on a path to citizenship is creating competitions for what few jobs we have with American citizens and legal immigrants. All illegal aliens in the workforce are not doing jobs American will not do because there is no jobs Americans will not do. *7 million illegal aliens, in our workforce*, are not picking lettuce in our inner cities where the majority of the 20 million illegal aliens live. They are in our hospital and clinics as clerks. In our banks as clerks. In our school as aides. In our labs. Janitors and maids. In *every business that cater to clients who speak Spanish*. These are jobs that were once held by English speaking Americans. Now there are ads for jobs with the stipulation. *Spanish speaking only* When in America, speak English. When in Mexico, speak Spanish. Our teachers are being required to go back to school to learn Spanish in order to communicate with parents who cannot speak English. Are the taking classes in Hindu? We have to do what was done in the past when jobs were scarce for American. *14 million Americans are unemployed*. We *rounded up illegal aliens and deported them*. Its been *done three time before to make jobs available for Americans*. Yes we did and yes we can.
The deportation of illegal aliens is possible
Not only are adults competing for jobs, our children are also. And more so if there is Comprehensive Immigration Reform when children of illegal aliens are competing for *education, scholarships and grants *and *after school jobs *and after *graduation* more competition for jobs. And dont forget *chain migration.*The unemployed is also competing for *welfare, food stamps and healthcare *which illegal aliens collect for their anchor babies. And *Unemployment Compensation Benefits*.
Our seniors and families are competing for *food at food banks *with illegal aliens.
Criminal illegal aliens are also competing with American criminals for criminal acts. Latino gangs are dealing in drugs, etc. competing with American criminals.
Everything about Comprehensive Immigration Reform is wrong for Americans. 
Our leaders got us into this mess by not enforcing our immigration laws for the past 50 years and they are expected to get us out of this mess. Giving in and letting *them stay just because they are here* is not an option. Everything about illegal immigration create competition for Americans.


----------



## LilOlLady

$480 a week? He probably did not earn that much in a month. Doing work Americans would not do?


----------



## brown62

I wish the Federal Government would use Arizona law as an example of what should happen all over the US.  I live in a minority majority state & I am so refreshed when I hear people speaking English.  I go from place to place & only hear Spanish.  I feel as if I live in a 3rd world country & then I become so upset that America (we) have allowed these people to take over our beloved America.  They come here & have mass amounts of children & we allow those children to be citizens?? What are we thinking, they have destroyed our school systems & our world.  They put white on their paperwork even though they know they are Hispanics.  They breed with  white people thus helping to further extinguish that race.  Soon & very soon there will only be Spanish & America will be no more.  We will rarely hear English & our culture will be totally destroyed.  Their view is that this was once their land & they are coming to take it back & they are not going to learn English, we should learn Spanish.  I feel powerless & I hate that feeling.  What can I do to help save American from the evil infiltration of this 3rd world country?  They open up all these Spanish speaking churches & I see them in their Sunday best, why doesn't the preacher tell them that breaking the law of the land is sin & that they should repent & take themselves & their "anchor babies" back to Mexico.  How in good conscious can a true christian continue to live in sin & not be convicted?  AMERICA HAS BECOME A 3RD WORLD COUNTRY!!!!  Where can I migrate to, to get away from the Illegals?  Does anyone know who has the lowest population?  Maybe we can build our own world from scratch, just us liked mnded people.


----------



## LostAmerican

brown62 said:


> I wish the Federal Government would use Arizona law as an example of what should happen all over the US. I live in a minority majority state & I am so refreshed when I hear people speaking English. I go from place to place & only hear Spanish. I feel as if I live in a 3rd world country & then I become so upset that America (we) have allowed these people to take over our beloved America. They come here & have mass amounts of children & we allow those children to be citizens?? What are we thinking, they have destroyed our school systems & our world. They put white on their paperwork even though they know they are Hispanics. They breed with white people thus helping to further extinguish that race. Soon & very soon there will only be Spanish & America will be no more. We will rarely hear English & our culture will be totally destroyed. Their view is that this was once their land & they are coming to take it back & they are not going to learn English, we should learn Spanish. I feel powerless & I hate that feeling. What can I do to help save American from the evil infiltration of this 3rd world country? They open up all these Spanish speaking churches & I see them in their Sunday best, why doesn't the preacher tell them that breaking the law of the land is sin & that they should repent & take themselves & their "anchor babies" back to Mexico. How in good conscious can a true christian continue to live in sin & not be convicted? AMERICA HAS BECOME A 3RD WORLD COUNTRY!!!! Where can I migrate to, to get away from the Illegals? Does anyone know who has the lowest population? Maybe we can build our own world from scratch, just us liked mnded people.


 
I'm a Catholic and I'm still trying to figure out how those Latinos get most of the money meant to feed poor Americans funneled into their organizations that feed illegals.

I was trying to get help with a legal problem last week and I was calling all the groups that help poor people that can't afford lawyers and I was shocked to hear that all of them help with "immigration" problems but few help Americans in need. Why the hell do I bother paying taxes?


----------



## LilOlLady

*MEXICO SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE.*


Mexico should be responsible for its own peoples healthcare, education and incarcerations in this country. This government is bankrupt because of services granted to illegal aliens and their children. Balance the federal and state budgets by withholding those services or billing Mexico for their use. They send billions back to Mexico that are earned here and should be spent here going back into our economy. Healthcare, welfare and incarcerations.

Illegal aliens broke our immigration system and our economy. And it is too high of a price to ask the American people to foot the bill and suffer from aid to illegal aliens. Besides taking care of Mexicos people we are sending them billion in aid.

I can hear the illegal aliens rhetoric. Mexican are not the only people in this country illegally. Well you would think they were because we have to teach children Spanish in schools and not German, Hindu, French, etc when they start school. All public documents are in Spanish. Most products are in Spanish. Translators in our courts are Spanish. 

Since we cannot send them all home, then those who are not working should be deported. With 7 million in our work force, what are the other say 5 million doing? Committing crimes like dealing in drugs, etc. and collecting welfare benefits, food stamps, Medicaid and public housing subsidies?

Mexico should be sent a bill by state and federal government for the services illegal aliens receive.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Is Mexico reconquering U.S. southwest?
Illegal immigration fueling aims of Hispanic radicals*

Posted: January 04, 2002
By Art Moore
© 2011 WorldNetDaily.com 

A radical Hispanic movement's dream to *retake the southwestern United States *is becoming a reality with the *aid of Mexican and U.S. policies*, according to some immigration watchers. 


*Immigration hurts both countries *

Read more: Is Mexico reconquering<br>U.S. southwest? Is Mexico reconquering<br>U.S. southwest?


----------



## José

Why should Mexico be punished if the sovereign US government is extremely happy to have them in America?

The American government is so satisfied with the presence of millions of illegal Mexicans in US territory that not even all the *tremendous pressure* put on it by more than half of the american population is enough to force it to do its job.


----------



## José

*"A RADICAL HISPANIC MOVEMENT" (OR EVEN INDIVIDUAL MEXICAN CITIZENS) AND MEXICO ARE TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THINGS, GRANNY!!*

What you call "Mexico" is represented exclusively by the Mexican government that is not trying to reconquer anything.

Did the United States (its government) steal mexican land in 1836?

No, individual american settlers did.

The United States stole half of Mexico only in 1846 when *THE GOVERNMENT OF AMERICA* became directly involved in the landgrab.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

José;3370472 said:
			
		

> Why should Mexico be punished if the sovereign US government is extremely happy to have them in America?
> 
> The American government is so satisfied with the presence of millions of illegal Mexicans in US territory that not even all the *tremendous pressure* put on it by more than half of the american population is enough to force it to do its job.



And why would that abdicate responsibilty from the Messycan government? They are still Messycan citizens.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *HereWeGoAgain*
> And why would that abdicate responsibilty from the Messycan government? They are still Messycan citizens.



As I said, you can't find 2 politicians in Washington DC who give a flying fuck about illegal Mexicans. If the sovereign, democratically elected government of the USA do not have any problem with them why should this same government punish Mexico in any way?

People who were harmed in any way by illegal Mexicans do not speak for America. The US government does and it doesn't have any complaint about illegal Mexicans otherwise it would at least make a serious attempt to deport them.

*NO HARM, NO FOUL*.


----------



## Angelhair

_Why punish Mexico when Mexico has a very good way to punish themselves.  Just give them enough rope and they will do the job as we have been seeing them do now for centuries.  It is at the end of that proverbial rope.  The USA does not have to do a damn thing but sit back and enjoy the show. _


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

José;3370630 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *HereWeGoAgain*
> And why would that abdicate responsibilty from the Messycan government? They are still Messycan citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I said, you can't find 2 politicians in Washington DC who give a flying fuck about illegal Mexicans. If the sovereign, democratically elected government of the USA do not have any problem with them why should this same government punish Mexico in any way?
> 
> People who were harmed in any way by illegal Mexicans do not speak for America. The US government does and it doesn't have any complaint about illegal Mexicans otherwise it would at least make a serious attempt to deport them.
> 
> *NO HARM, NO FOUL*.
Click to expand...


So your saying the American people dont speak for America? And a bunch of scummy beaners do!! You say because our government is derilict in it's duty that it's all right?  So you think it's all right for scummy beaners to break the laws of our country? 
 Typical beaner....dishonest to the core.
You Hose-a and your scummy cousin Hose-b can go FUCK YOURSELF!!! Low life law breaken trash. Go ahead and justify THAT!!!


----------



## gekaap

The US did no such thing.  The US did not steal any land.  Mexico lost that land, first in secession (which was further confirmed through the Texas war for Independence) and then via a second war that it started.  No theft occurred.


----------



## gekaap

José;3370472 said:
			
		

> Why should Mexico be punished if the sovereign US government is extremely happy to have them in America?



1.  The USA is NOT happy to have illegal immigrants in our country.

2.  Being responsible is not the same as being punished.  I understand that you can't comprehend the difference between the two.  Neither can most Mexicans, it seems, because they constantly refuse to be responsible for their own selves as if being sent to their room without dinner.  But you're just gonna have to take my word for it.



> The American government is so satisfied with the presence of millions of illegal Mexicans in US territory that not even all the *tremendous pressure* put on it by more than half of the american population is enough to force it to do its job.



Don't you even see how you've contradicted yourself here?  You've admitted that over half of the population is unhappy about illegal immigrants from Mexico coming into our country.  The only thing you've established is that American politics are fucked up, and that Americans don't want illegals from Mexico.  None of that excuses Mexico from holding primary responsibility to its own citizens.


----------



## gekaap

José;3370630 said:
			
		

> People who were harmed in any way by illegal Mexicans do not speak for America. The US government does



This is disgustingly fascist.


----------



## gekaap

Omaha said:


> LostAmerican said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now start the offensive against Latin American loyal politicians in the US. Start nailing them for treason.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If your a politition and dont uphold the Constitution then you sould be charged with treason, you personal views should not come before the law.
Click to expand...


So George W. Bush should be charged with treason?  Many of his policies regarding detainees in Gitmo have been ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court.  Don't be so obtuse.


----------



## gekaap

I'm really starting to think that AZ is becoming the worst thing for the anti illegal immigration battle.  There's no doubt that there is a great deal of work that needs to be done in order to address the illegal immigration problem, but AZ is increasingly showing that they are more interested in stirring up controversy and throwing a hissy fit than they are in actually providing workable and legal solutions.  Trying to deny citizenship to anchor babies is not within their power to do.  If passed, that law will be shot down like a Talibani fighter jet in a no fly zone.  So too will the renter bill, which appears nearly identical to the WV law that was already shot down.  If AZ keeps this conduct up, they are only going to fuel the fire against themselves and will make their cause out to look like one of extremist mania.


----------



## gekaap

There are several things that are illegal under US law, against which states also have statutes.  Murder is a felony under US law, but every state also has its own statutes against the same thing.  Having a state law allows the states to prosecute the crimes themselves instead of having to hand it over to the federal government.


----------



## Avorysuds

gekaap said:


> Omaha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LostAmerican said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now start the offensive against Latin American loyal politicians in the US. Start nailing them for treason.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If your a politition and dont uphold the Constitution then you sould be charged with treason, you personal views should not come before the law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So George W. Bush should be charged with treason?  Many of his policies regarding detainees in Gitmo have been ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court.  Don't be so obtuse.
Click to expand...


Sure... Why bring Bush into this, are you one of those 2 wrongs make a right, if it's a Democrat now people?


----------



## gekaap

Avorysuds said:


> Sure... Why bring Bush into this, are you one of those 2 wrongs make a right, if it's a Democrat now people?



I'm pointing out that his notion is absurd because it would require him to either a) advocate extreme measures meaninglessly, or b) contradict himself by not advocating said measures at all times.

President Bush did not uphold the constitution with some of his policies regarding Gitmo detainees.  He is not the first President to fail to uphold the constitution either.  Clinton failed to do so when he signed the DADT law.  And similarly, John Adams failed to do so when he signed the Sedition Act.  Countless Congresspeople and Senators have not upheld the constitution by passing all kinds of unconstitutional legislation to make it available for the President to sign.  It's meaninglessly extreme to suggest that all of these people should be arrested and charged with treason.  A much better option is to allow voters to hold these elected officials accountable by choosing whether to re-elect them or not, while the the courts do their job in knocking down unconstitutional laws.

Therefore, either he must endorse such pointlessly extreme measures, or he must concede at least some exceptions to what he is advocating.  Either way, his comment remains obtuse and absurd.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *HereWeGoAgain*
> So your saying the American people dont speak for America? And a bunch of scummy beaners do!! You say because our government is derilict in it's duty that it's all right? So you think it's all right for scummy beaners to break the laws of our country?
> Typical beaner....dishonest to the core.
> You Hose-a and your scummy cousin Hose-b can go FUCK YOURSELF!!! Low life law breaken trash. Go ahead and justify THAT!!!





> Originally posted by *gekaap*
> 1. The USA is NOT happy to have illegal immigrants in our country.
> 
> 2. Being responsible is not the same as being punished. I understand that you can't comprehend the difference between the two. Neither can most Mexicans, it seems, because they constantly refuse to be responsible for their own selves as if being sent to their room without dinner. But you're just gonna have to take my word for it.





> Originally posted by *gekaap*
> This is disgustingly fascist.



You can interview 20 american citizens who were robbed by illegal Mexicans and now strongly oppose illegal immigration. They don't speak for America.

You can interview 20 american citizens who became millionaires with cheap labor provided by illegal Mexicans and now strongly support illegal immigration. They don't speak for America either.

*THE SOVEREIGN, DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED US GOVERNMENT IS THE ONLY ONE THAT DOES*.

As long as the American government does not make any serious attempt to carry out mass deportations of illegal immigrants I have every reason to belive it does not have any problem with them.

The US government doesn't even issue official documents complaing about illegal immigration let alone any concrete measures to solve the problem.

*YOU CANNOT PUNISH A NEIGHBORING COUNTRY FOR A "PROBLEM" YOU DON'T EVEN BOTHER TO COMPLAIN ABOUT!!*


----------



## José

The whole premise of this thread is totally fucked up.

The American government is 100% responsible for the fact that these people were allowed to live and work ilegally in the US for 5, 10, 20 or 30 years.

They are the ones who should be punished by the american people by being voted out of power.


----------



## Toronado3800

Citizen roofers and the like who are negatively affected by illegal immigration no doubt are angry.

Their bosses and the big wigs at Tyson Chicken no doubt are happy, like has been stated.

Should Mexico have to pay?  The country probably will not be able to so I will not trouble myself with enforcing that.

How about we just limit the money leaving the U.S. to support families back in Mexico.  

Personally I would rather have hard working Mexicans as citizens than some entitled feeling fifth generation Europeans.


----------



## Toronado3800

Americans of European descent barely reproduce fast enough to maintain the population much less keep social security working or maintain property values.  We need more working age citizens!


----------



## José

The irony of Mexico being strongarmed into acting as America's border patrol, patrolling the very same territory that was alienated from it by brute force is rich.

The irony of Mexico being fined for the fact that its citizens cross what was *MEXICAN TERRITORY* until that act of violence was commited is *EVEN RICHER*.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *gekaap*
> Mexico lost that land, first in secession (which was further confirmed through the Texas war for Independence)



American born naturalised mexican citizens living in Mexico *FOR 13 YEARS OR LESS*, who can't even speak spanish, have no right to join forces with thousands of illegal american immigrants and declare Mexican territory their "homeland".

This is not a legitimate independence movement anywhere on planet Earth.

This is not a valid (texan) "revolution".

*THIS IS NOTHING BUT A JOKE AND A BAD ONE AT THAT!!!!*


----------



## Douger

Bullshit. Your country is bankrupt due to the fact you spend over 600 BILLION a year on offence to defend your corporations tyranny abroad.
The biggest slaughter machine in the history of the world.


----------



## LostAmerican

José;3370523 said:
			
		

> *"A RADICAL HISPANIC MOVEMENT" (OR EVEN INDIVIDUAL MEXICAN CITIZENS) AND MEXICO ARE TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THINGS, GRANNY!!*
> 
> What you call "Mexico" is represented exclusively by the Mexican government that is not trying to reconquer anything.
> 
> Did the United States (its government) steal mexican land in 1836?
> 
> No, individual american settlers did.
> 
> The United States stole half of Mexico only in 1846 when *THE GOVERNMENT OF AMERICA* became directly involved in the landgrab.


 
Mexico SOLD the land to the United States.

 When will Mexicans admit this historical fact?

Stop being a "crybaby"!

Would you rather be living in a teepee?​


----------



## LostAmerican

Toronado3800 said:


> Americans of European descent barely reproduce fast enough to maintain the population much less keep social security working or maintain property values. We need more working age citizens!


 
What crap. Americans are acting as responsible people by not overpopulating the world which Mexico has proved does not work.

Does the property value in your neighborhood go up when 30 Mexicans cram into a house that pays property taxes for just a few people? Is that your idea of maintaining public services? How much water, heat, electricity, food, healthcare, education, etc do those 30 Mexicans use compared to the few Americans that are supposed to reside there?

When you go for social service help and find that most of those funds that you and American families have paid for in decades of taxes, only to find you must wait behind a long line of Mexicans that just snuck in, what do you say?

Why are Mexicans receiving AMERICAN grant money for their social services and "not for profit" terrorist groups while Americans can't find help in their own country in their own language?


----------



## mudwhistle

José;3370472 said:
			
		

> Why should Mexico be punished if the sovereign US government is extremely happy to have them in America?
> 
> The American government is so satisfied with the presence of millions of illegal Mexicans in US territory that not even all the *tremendous pressure* put on it by more than half of the american population is enough to force it to do its job.



Democrats are satisfied with the presence of millions of illegal Mexicans, not the rest of us because they like their childrens votes. 

Most Americans are against illegal immigration.


----------



## LostAmerican

José;3372398 said:
			
		

> The irony of Mexico being strongarmed into acting as America's border patrol, patrolling the very same territory that was alienated from it by brute force is rich.
> 
> The irony of Mexico being fined for the fact that its citizens cross what was *MEXICAN TERRITORY* until that act of violence was commited is *EVEN RICHER*.


 
The expense for a fence between 2 neighbors should be shared. Mexico has responsibilities that it never lives up to, yet want to grab credit for.

World War 1? World War 2? 

Does Latin America know what "WORLD" means?

Latin America did not do its share of the fighting. Why should they share in the rewards?


----------



## LilOlLady

*7 MILLION DO NOT ADD UP TO BILLIONS*.

We need to import workers to fill in were American workers are lacking. 20 million illegal aliens in this country and only 7 million in the workforce who are low wage earners and paying very little in taxes if any. How do they pay billions in taxes and send billions back to Mexicos economy each years? 7 million in the workforce doing meager jobs american will not do is not earning billions, paying billion in taxes and were do they get the $13 billion to send back to Mexico each year? Has anyone in our government asked this question? Well lets say some of those who send money back to Mexico are legal immigrants, it still do not add up to $13 billion.

*Many illegal immigrants pay up at tax time*
By Travis Loller, Associated Press 
NASHVILLE  The tax system collects its due, even from a class of workers with little likelihood of claiming a refund and no hope of drawing a Social Security check. 
Illegal immigrants are paying taxes to Uncle Sam, experts agree. Just how much they pay is hard to determine because the federal government doesn't fully tally it. But the latest figures available indicate it will amount to billions of dollars in federal income, Social Security and Medicare taxes this year. One rough estimate puts the amount of Social Security taxes alone at around $9 billion per year.

In 2006, then IRS Commission Mark Everson told Congress that "many illegal aliens, utilizing ITINs, have been reporting tax liability to the tune of almost $50 billion from 1996 to 2003."

He calculates that illegal immigrants contributed $428 billion dollars to the nation's $13.6 trillion gross domestic product in 2006. That number assumes illegal immigrants are 30% less productive than other workers.
Many illegal immigrants pay up at tax time - USATODAY.com

*This sound like one of Grimms fairy tales.*


----------



## LilOlLady

Last year Mexico received more than *$17 billion in remittances*. The amount of remittances in Mexico *exceeds the amount of foreign direct investment in the country*.
 It is estimated that Latin Americans residing in the United States send *$30 billion dollars to their native countries. *

Immigrants Send Money Home in Record Numbers


7 million illegal aliens in the workforce earning billions and sending $30 billion back to Mexico?


----------



## LostAmerican

LilOlLady said:


> Last year Mexico received more than *$17 billion in remittances*. The amount of remittances in Mexico *exceeds the amount of foreign direct investment in the country*.
> It is estimated that Latin Americans residing in the United States send *$30 billion dollars to their native countries. *
> 
> Immigrants Send Money Home in Record Numbers
> 
> 
> 7 million illegal aliens in the workforce earning billions and sending $30 billion back to Mexico?


 
Senator Edward Kennedy used to claim that they sent back $40 billion or more per year. Yeah, that's a real help to *OUR* economy.


----------



## LilOlLady

LostAmerican said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last year Mexico received more than *$17 billion in remittances*. The amount of remittances in Mexico *exceeds the amount of foreign direct investment in the country*.
> It is estimated that Latin Americans residing in the United States send *$30 billion dollars to their native countries. *
> 
> Immigrants Send Money Home in Record Numbers
> 
> 
> 7 million illegal aliens in the workforce earning billions and sending $30 billion back to Mexico?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senator Edward Kennedy used to claim that they sent back $40 billion or more per year. Yeah, that's a real help to *OUR* economy.
Click to expand...


What I am having a problem with is how much they send home. Even if there were 40 billion illegal aliens in this country I cannot see how they could sent $40 billion back to their countries. Let say ALL Latinos sent money home, it still *could not amount to $40 billion*. Maybe with a Mexican calculator but no with mine. I see these numbers thrown about by pro-illegal aliens advocates and it is impossible from wages unless a lot of drugs are sold. And how much these low wages earners contribute to our economy?


----------



## LilOlLady

*Fact Sheet: Immigrants&#8217; Economic Contributions*

Principles for an Immigration Policy to Strengthen and Expand the American Middle Class: 2009 Edition

The *American middle class and low-income workers striving to earn a middle-class standard of living rely on the economic contributions of immigrants,* both authorized and undocumented. 
Fact Sheet: Immigrants? Economic Contributions

LMAO


----------



## LilOlLady

*Legalizing Undocumented Immigrants Would Benefit the Middle Class*

These findings inform a two-fold litmus test to judge immigration reform in Congress: new policy must 1) *bolster the economic contributions of immigrants as workers, entrepreneurs, taxpayers and consumers; *2) *strengthen immigrants&#8217; workplace rights*. If policy fails either part of the test, *the middle class will suffer as a result*.

Our report urges Congress to acknowledge that *only permanent legal residency can offer the security and stability to ensure a level playing field between native-born and immigrant workers*. Full legal status would *increase the tax contributions and wages *of undocumented immigrants due to a *greater ability to exercise workplace rights *once the fear of deportation is gone. Over time, it would *generate more revenue to fund the government **programs and services that benefit all current and aspiring middle class Americans*.
http://groups.google.com/group/UNCG...ted-immigrants-would-benefit-the-middle-class


----------



## Angelhair

_Lies, ALL lies.  The USA government is lying to the american people ALL of the time when it comes to illegals.  That is the truth._


----------



## LostAmerican

LilOlLady said:


> LostAmerican said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last year Mexico received more than *$17 billion in remittances*. The amount of remittances in Mexico *exceeds the amount of foreign direct investment in the country*.
> It is estimated that Latin Americans residing in the United States send *$30 billion dollars to their native countries. *
> 
> Immigrants Send Money Home in Record Numbers
> 
> 
> 7 million illegal aliens in the workforce earning billions and sending $30 billion back to Mexico?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senator Edward Kennedy used to claim that they sent back $40 billion or more per year. Yeah, that's a real help to *OUR* economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What I am having a problem with is how much they send home. Even if there were 40 billion illegal aliens in this country I cannot see how they could sent $40 billion back to their countries. Let say ALL Latinos sent money home, it still *could not amount to $40 billion*. Maybe with a Mexican calculator but no with mine. I see these numbers thrown about by pro-illegal aliens advocates and it is impossible from wages unless a lot of drugs are sold. And how much these low wages earners contribute to our economy?
Click to expand...

 
Latinos have infiltrated most of America's financial networks. Most Latinos run the non-for-profit scam organizations in the US to funnel money to themselves and away from the American poor. 

Just think of all the low income legal services that are intended to help Americans but have been hijacked to serve "immigrants". 

The same goes for religious organization. I see Catholic funds being funneled to "Latino Only" organizations that have nothing to do with religion all the time. They are called community activists and they pay NO TAXES!


----------



## BolshevikHunter

José;3370523 said:
			
		

> *"A RADICAL HISPANIC MOVEMENT" (OR EVEN INDIVIDUAL MEXICAN CITIZENS) AND MEXICO ARE TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THINGS, GRANNY!!*
> 
> What you call "Mexico" is represented exclusively by the Mexican government that is not trying to reconquer anything.
> 
> Did the United States (its government) steal mexican land in 1836?
> 
> No, individual american settlers did.
> 
> The United States stole half of Mexico only in 1846 when *THE GOVERNMENT OF AMERICA* became directly involved in the landgrab.



How many times do I gotta educate you Jose? The U.S didn't "steal" anything you dunce. They purchased it from Mexico. "Land grab" What a load of made up garbage.

Exactly why did the U.S Government get involved? It was called The Mexican - American War. You got your butts kicked, and then you signed the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. The U.S Government payed Mexico 15 million dollars (equivalent to $380 million today) for The Land we obtained. They U.S. also agreed to take over 3.25 million dollars (equivalent to $82.2 million today) in debts that Mexico owed to American citizens. Face it, The Mexican Government sold the land for their own greed. Hell, they even offered Baja California to us for another million, but we declined, which I believe was a big mistake. ~BH


----------



## DiveCon

BolshevikHunter said:


> José;3370523 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"A RADICAL HISPANIC MOVEMENT" (OR EVEN INDIVIDUAL MEXICAN CITIZENS) AND MEXICO ARE TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THINGS, GRANNY!!*
> 
> What you call "Mexico" is represented exclusively by the Mexican government that is not trying to reconquer anything.
> 
> Did the United States (its government) steal mexican land in 1836?
> 
> No, individual american settlers did.
> 
> The United States stole half of Mexico only in 1846 when *THE GOVERNMENT OF AMERICA* became directly involved in the landgrab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many times do I gotta educate you Jose? The U.S didn't "steal" anything you dunce. They purchased it from Mexico. "Land grab" What a load of made up garbage.
> 
> Exactly why did the U.S Government get involved? It was called The Mexican - American War. You got your butts kicked, and then you signed the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. The U.S Government payed Mexico 15 million dollars (equivalent to $380 million today) for The Land we obtained. They U.S. also agreed to take over 3.25 million dollars (equivalent to $82.2 million today) in debts that Mexico owed to American citizens. Face it, The Mexican Government sold the land for their own greed. Hell, they even offered Baja California to us for another million, but we declined, which I believe was a big mistake. ~BH
Click to expand...

exactly
we stole nothing from Mexico


----------



## LostAmerican

BolshevikHunter said:


> [. Hell, they even offered Baja California to us for another million, but we declined, which I believe was a big mistake. ~BH


 
Just more border land that the US would have to secure against the evil Mexican.

Wait a few years after the US invades Mexico, they'll let that land go for peanuts or pesos.


----------



## High_Gravity

Toronado3800 said:


> Americans of European descent barely reproduce fast enough to maintain the population much less keep social security working or maintain property values.  We need more working age citizens!



So you want white people to start reproducing like rabbits to keep up with the Mexicans, having children they can't afford to care for?


----------



## DiveCon

LostAmerican said:


> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> [. Hell, they even offered Baja California to us for another million, but we declined, which I believe was a big mistake. ~BH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just more border land that the US would have to secure against the evil Mexican.
> 
> Wait a few years after the US invades Mexico, they'll let that land go for peanuts or pesos.
Click to expand...

actually not
it would have reduced the land border


----------



## LilOlLady

*States seek to copy Arizona immigration law* 

By Alex Johnson and Vanessa Hauc 
msnbc.com and Telemundo msnbc.com and Telemundo 
updated 2/3/2011  

Measures introduced in *at least 15 states*; some pose dilemma for high-profile Republicans 

 Mississippi state Sen. Joey Fillingane, sponsor of a measure to allow police to check the immigration status of anyone stopped for a traffic violation, tells Vanessa Hauc of Telemundo that *"inaction at the federal level"* by Democrats and Republicans alike has forced state officials' hands.

Arizona's hot-button immigration law is on hold, pending court appeals, but *its effects are rippling across the country *as state legislatures reconfigured by the November elections begin their new sessions. 


States seek to copy Arizona immigration law - U.S. news - Immigration: A Nation Divided - msnbc.com

*
Model after the Arizona law has been introduced by 15 states since the beginning of the year. Thanks to Arizona. I do believe we will win THIS war.*


----------



## BolshevikHunter

LostAmerican said:


> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> [. Hell, they even offered Baja California to us for another million, but we declined, which I believe was a big mistake. ~BH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just more border land that the US would have to secure against the evil Mexican.
> 
> Wait a few years after the US invades Mexico, they'll let that land go for peanuts or pesos.
Click to expand...


Dive is correct, It would be less. Baja California is a peninsula. Great diving and Surfing down in Cabo.  ~BH


----------



## LostAmerican

BolshevikHunter said:


> LostAmerican said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> [. Hell, they even offered Baja California to us for another million, but we declined, which I believe was a big mistake. ~BH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just more border land that the US would have to secure against the evil Mexican.
> 
> Wait a few years after the US invades Mexico, they'll let that land go for peanuts or pesos.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dive is correct, It would be less. Baja California is a peninsula. Great diving and Surfing down in Cabo.  ~BH
Click to expand...

 
Look at all the coastline the US would then have to guard.


----------



## LostAmerican

LilOlLady said:


> _*Model after the Arizona law has been introduced by 15 states since the beginning of the year. Thanks to Arizona. I do believe we will win THIS war.*_


 
It still won't do a thing against Mexicans stealing resources meant for poor Americans. Only a total commitment to war on Mexico for their part in espionage conducted against the American people will purge the US of these evil invaders.

Then the demand that Mexico make restitution to the American people plus the building of a demilitarized zone between the US and Mexico.

THIS IS WAR NOT IMMIGRATION VIOLATIONS.


----------



## LilOlLady

*What Happens to Seized Drug Money?* 

 by LibertySugar  
  07/21/200

This week's Economist itemized what can be considered law enforcement for spending purposes. 
*Seized assets have been used for the following: *

One Texas county used it on a margarita machine.
A Texas district attorney took his whole staff to Hawaii for a training seminar.
Another Texan DA spent thousands of dollars on his re-election campaign.
In Indiana money goes to a general school fund. (A good idea.)
A Georgia sheriff bought a $90,000 sports car, used to advertise an anti-drug program. (Don't tell the kids drugs paid for the car!)
Unfortunately, many state laws give authorities wide discretion to seize assets even without any verdict. And with such an incentive to get the restriction-free money, sometimes they get it wrong. Does it matter to you what happens to drug money?

On the Newsstand: What Happens to Seized Drug Money?


----------



## LilOlLady

*Phoenix and Tucson Market Areas*

Two major *drug market areas *exist in the Arizona HIDTA region, the Phoenix and Tucson metropolitan areas; both serve as *transshipment centers for cocaine, heroin, marijuana, and methamphetamine smuggled into the United States from Mexico *and are the *most noteworthy areas of illicit drug trafficking and abuse *in the HIDTA region.

*Drug-Related Crime*
Much of the violent and property crime in Phoenix is drug- and/or gang-related. According to the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office, Arizona New Mexican Mafia is being prosecuted for Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) offenses and on several state homicide charges. Additionally, Phoenix Police Department officials indicted 43 members of the Westside City Crips on RICO charges in March 2008. Additionally, the Westside City Crips and other African American street gangs, such as Vista Bloods and Park South Crips, have been increasingly committing home invasions over the past year throughout the Phoenix area. Moreover, African American street gangs in Phoenix are increasingly engaging in intergang violence.

*Drug-Related Crime*
Drug-related crime poses a considerable threat to Tucson; most is committed by street gangs involved in drug distribution within the city. For instance, the Arizona New Mexican Mafia "taxes" other street gangs that distribute illicit drugs in Tucson; if a street gang does not pay the "tax," violent retribution usually ensues. Additionally, African American street gangs, such as Bloods and Crips sets, are increasingly conducting home invasions in the Tucson area--home invasions were previously the domain of Hispanic street gangs. Moreover, street gangs in the area are engaging in a rising level of intergang rivalry, including violent offenses against each other.

(U) Phoenix and Tucson Market Areas - Arizona High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area Drug Market Analysis 2008 (UNCLASSIFIED)


----------



## LilOlLady

*Ranchers asking for more border security Restore Our Border, IN MEMORY of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry*

By AMANDA LEE MYERS

Associated Press
Friday, January 28, 2011 



PHOENIX  Rancher Dan Bell has come *face to face with drug smugglers *on his southeastern Arizona cattle ranch, he has found the *bodies of 
illegal immigrants *who died of exposure on his property, and *a Border 
Patrol agent was killed *in December about 5 miles from his home.



*The 42-year-old has had about enough.*

Ranchers asking for more border security ?Restore Our Border,? IN MEMORY of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry


----------



## gekaap

José;3372394 said:
			
		

> The whole premise of this thread is totally fucked up.
> 
> The American government is 100% responsible for the fact that these people were allowed to live and work ilegally in the US for 5, 10, 20 or 30 years.
> 
> They are the ones who should be punished by the american people by being voted out of power.



When are you going to get it through your head that illegal immigrants have NEVER been allowed to be here.  That is the very definition of illegal.  Not allowed.  The fact that these people have managed to get away with it for any given amount of time does not change the fact that they have NEVER been allowed to be here, work here, etc.

When you were a teenager, and your parents set a curfew by which time you had to be home, did you interpret your parents not hunting you down each and every night at curfew time to mean that you were allowed to stay out past curfew?  I'm thinking that maybe you did interpret it that way.  Well here's a news flash for you--that ain't how the world works.  When laws are established, people are expected to abide by those laws.  Regardless of how poor enforcement measures may be, it DOES NOT excuse the people who choose to violate those laws.  It does not create new rights for the people tho violate those laws.


----------



## gekaap

José;3372390 said:
			
		

> *THE SOVEREIGN, DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED US GOVERNMENT IS THE ONLY ONE THAT DOES*.



You're committing fallacy of equivocation.  Certain members of the government "speak" for the US for certain official matters.  Ambassadors speak for the US to other foreign powers.  The President speaks for the US to other heads of state, and at times to the rest of the country.  The combined popular opinion of US citizens "speaks" for the US in terms of establishing where the public's support on a given issue lays.  Stop intentionally trying to equivocate in order to make your flawed points.



> As long as the American government does not make any serious attempt to carry out mass deportations of illegal immigrants I have every reason to belive it does not have any problem with them.



No, you don't have every reason to believe it.  You believe it for the one and only reason you seem to find necessary:  You want to believe it, so you CHOOSE to believe it, regardless of any fact to the contrary.

Even if the US had ABSOLUTELY ZERO ENFORCEMENT, that would not change the fact that our laws are written as they are written.  The laws, as written, ought to be enough to tell you what the US wants.  Since illegal immigrants are, well, illegal, that fact alone suffices to establish that Americans have a problem with those people being here.

You also choose to ignore the popular sentiment that you admit exists, against illegal immigration.  You attempt to justify this deliberate indifference to the fact via your fallacious equivocation that you've used to brush it aside.  But, it is fallacious, like I've said.

You also choose to ignore the many efforts that have been made over the past several years in the US political arena to increase enforcement.  You also choose to ignore the fact that the Mexican government actively lobbies the US government to resist increased immigration enforcement, and the fact that such efforts by the Mexican government have been a major influence to the USA's current lax enforcement policies.

You also choose to ignore the fact that immigration, at this very minute, continues to be an issue that receives a great deal of attention on US politics.  This fact alone proves that the US indeed considers the immigration question to be important and that the US believes there are currently problems related to illegal immigration.

All these things, you choose to ignore, in favor of simply settling on the conclusion that you wish were valid.



> The US government doesn't even issue official documents complaing about illegal immigration let alone any concrete measures to solve the problem.



Actually, the US has made many attempts to "complain" about illegal immigration.  But Mexico simply refuses to cooperate.  Mexico tends to hold things over the USA's head, like trade and its assistance curbing border violence, in order to gain leverage over us.

That aside, the fact still remains that illegal immigration is ILLEGAL.  Nothing, and I MEAN NOTHING excuses people from entering and being in the country illegally.



> *YOU CANNOT PUNISH A NEIGHBORING COUNTRY FOR A "PROBLEM" YOU DON'T EVEN BOTHER TO COMPLAIN ABOUT!!*



Since when is deporting illegal immigrants and having tougher enforcement "punishing" another country?


----------



## gekaap

José;3372398 said:
			
		

> The irony of Mexico being strongarmed into acting as America's border patrol, patrolling the very same territory that was alienated from it by brute force is rich.
> 
> The irony of Mexico being fined for the fact that its citizens cross what was *MEXICAN TERRITORY* until that act of violence was commited is *EVEN RICHER*.



The US was not responsible for Texas seceding from Mexico.  They seceded because of dissatisfaction with Mexico.

Also, Mexico is the country that committed acts of violence against Americans, which led to the Mexican-American war.  All the same, this does not matter now.  You're like so many Mexican apologists and pro-illegal immigration wingnuts who continue to complain about geopolitics of nearly 200 years ago as if it is an excuse for illegal immigration today.  It's not.  Catch up with the rest of the world and start living in the 21st century.


----------



## gekaap

José;3372410 said:
			
		

> American born naturalised mexican citizens living in Mexico *FOR 13 YEARS OR LESS*, who can't even speak spanish, have no right to join forces with thousands of illegal american immigrants and declare Mexican territory their "homeland".
> 
> This is not a legitimate independence movement anywhere on planet Earth.
> 
> This is not a valid (texan) "revolution".
> 
> *THIS IS NOTHING BUT A JOKE AND A BAD ONE AT THAT!!!!*



I agree.  Your post was nothing but a joke, and a bad one at that.

Let's go back to the first half of the 19th century.  The new country of Mexico adopted eased immigration laws that allowed easy immigration into Tejas.  Also adopted were settlers laws that allowed people to claim land regardless of immigration status.  This invited an influx of a volatile mix of cultural values.  In order to try to bring and end to this Mexico passed various new laws and public policies that angered Anglos and Tejanos alike.  These tensions, as well as other general internal Mexican tensions, led to uprisings against the government in many areas of Mexico, including Tejas.  Tejas was successful in driving out Mexican forces.  Afterward, the citizens of Tejas set out to decide what their priorities were, and they decided to pursue independence.

So stop complaining already.


----------



## waltky

Granny says, "Yea well, tell `em if dey don't like it to keep their butts on their side of the border den dey won't have nothin' to get upset about...

*Mexicos President: Anti-American Feeling in Mexico Is Growing Because of Publics Perception About Illegal Immigrants*
_Friday, March 04, 2011 Washington (CNSNews.com) - Mexican President Felipe Calderon, during his visit to Washington, D.C., this week, indicated that anti-American sentiment is growing in Mexico because of how the people there view Americans perception of illegal immigration._


> Prior to going forward with immigration reform in the United States, We need to change the general perception inside the public opinion in America and the public opinion in Mexico, said Calderon.   My most serious concern is that bad feelings are growing on both sides of the border, he added. The anti-American feeling in Mexico is growing again.  Meanwhile, he said, the anti-Mexican or anti-Hispanic, or Latino, or immigrant feelings are growing here [in the United States].
> 
> What we need to do is remember each other  that we are neighbors, we are nice, and we are human persons, said Calderon. We contribute to each others prosperity.  Unless the publics perception about immigration, in both countries, changes, it will be impossible to persuade people to implement immigration reform, said Calderon.  The Mexican presidents comments were in response to a George Washington University student asking him to comment on what he thought was the best solution to deal with illegal immigrants in America. An estimated 13 million illegals are in the United States, many of them from Mexico.  Calderon was questioned during a public forum sponsored by the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars.
> 
> In answering the student, Calderon said the DREAM Act, which he referred to as tough comprehensive immigration reform would have been a good step in the right direction of dealing with illegal immigration in the U.S.  The DREAM (Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors) Act, which failed to pass during the lame-duck session of Congress in 2010, would have allowed young illegal immigrants who have been in the states for at least five years to acquire legal status if they pass background checks, attend college or serve in the military for at least two years.
> 
> Mexico


----------



## BolshevikHunter

LostAmerican said:


> BolshevikHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LostAmerican said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just more border land that the US would have to secure against the evil Mexican.
> 
> Wait a few years after the US invades Mexico, they'll let that land go for peanuts or pesos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dive is correct, It would be less. Baja California is a peninsula. Great diving and Surfing down in Cabo.  ~BH
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look at all the coastline the US would then have to guard.
Click to expand...


Yeah, But the majority of them come by land. I can tell you this much, none are coming in on the Pacific side. I have surfed down there, and the undertow is the strongest I have ever felt. I almost couldn't get back in. Sea of Cortez side? Pretty ruff too for poor people without a good boat. ~BH


----------



## Mad Scientist

You know who is gonna' get the real screwjob from illegal immigration? The Mexicans themselves. 

When the North American Union is complete, there will be *no Mexico* for Mexicans to run back *to!*

And America will be the *exact same shithole* they ran from! Aye yai yai!


----------



## LostAmerican

Mad Scientist said:


> You know who is gonna' get the real screwjob from illegal immigration? The Mexicans themselves.
> 
> When the North American Union is complete, there will be *no Mexico* for Mexicans to run back *to!*
> 
> And America will be the *exact same shithole* they ran from! Aye yai yai!


 
There will be no escape for Americans. It will be one big western hemisphere shithole run by people like Hugo Chavez who will threaten the eastern hemisphere with nuclear destruction from US weapons that cowardly Americans cheerfully turned over to assholes like him.


----------



## LilOlLady

Did anyone hear anything about a law that would make domestic workers and handy men who work in homes not subject to immigration laws and deportation?
Or was it about some other country? 



I just found this;

*UK immigration rules on marriage, domestic servants*
http://www.newzimbabwe.com/pages/immigration3.13199.html


----------



## Intense

Everybody should own one???? Absurd. Maybe they could be Licensed like pets???
Slavery by any name is still Slavery.


----------



## LilOlLady

Intense said:


> Everybody should own one???? Absurd. Maybe they could be Licensed like pets???
> Slavery by any name is still Slavery.



Domestic workers, nannies, chauffeurs, gardeners, cooks and handymen are not slaves. They get paid for their work. How dare you make like of slavery with the comparison of minimum wager earners. No one force them to take these jobs and these jobs actually pay more then minimum wage. Average wage of a housekeeper is $16 and home care aid is $20. Slaves did not get paid at all,etc


----------



## Intense

LilOlLady said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody should own one???? Absurd. Maybe they could be Licensed like pets???
> Slavery by any name is still Slavery.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Domestic workers, nannies, chauffeurs, gardeners, cooks and handymen are not slaves. They get paid for their work. How dare you make like of slavery with the comparison of minimum wager earners. No one force them to take these jobs and these jobs actually pay more then minimum wage. Average wage of a housekeeper is $16 and home care aid is $20. Slaves did not get paid at all,etc
Click to expand...


The Practice of bringing in Undocumented Workers to fill these positions is Illegal and Immoral. It play's to the whims of the controlling Elite Class, and creates a multitude of problems for the Greater Society. You are advocating the advancement of a Hopeless Proletarian Class. Stop with the Self Serving, Self Righteous Bullshit. I dare what I will.


----------



## LilOlLady

*SIMPLE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION SOLUTION.*

We don't have to do anything other then make it impossible for them to work here and they will leave with their anchor babies and they will not come. It is as simple as that. Nothing more has to be done. It will work and it is inexpensive. *Mandatory E-Verify on employers with punishment and heavy penalties.* And that will stop illegal immigration in it tracks.

All the other crap is just a waste of time and money. With holding citizenship is a must. But rounding them up and putting them on train, busses and planes, SB1070 laws included is just just a waste of time and money. *Go after the people that hire them*. Simple as that.
Most of them come here to work and others to have anchor babies and collect monetary welfare grants, food stamps and housing subsidies. Other for criminal reasons.


----------



## gekaap

LilOlLady said:


> *SIMPLE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION SOLUTION.*
> 
> We don't have to do anything other then make it impossible for them to work here and they will leave with their anchor babies and they will not come. It is as simple as that. Nothing more has to be done. It will work and it is inexpensive. *Mandatory E-Verify on employers with punishment and heavy penalties.* And that will stop illegal immigration in it tracks.
> 
> All the other crap is just a waste of time and money. With holding citizenship is a must. But rounding them up and putting them on train, busses and planes, SB1070 laws included is just just a waste of time and money. *Go after the people that hire them*. Simple as that.
> Most of them come here to work and others to have anchor babies and collect monetary welfare grants, food stamps and housing subsidies. Other for criminal reasons.



It's already illegal to hire undocumented workers.  Levying another mandatory employment practice will not accomplish anything.  The main problem is a horrid lack of enforcement of current immigration and labor laws.


----------



## BolshevikHunter

LostAmerican said:


> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know who is gonna' get the real screwjob from illegal immigration? The Mexicans themselves.
> 
> When the North American Union is complete, there will be *no Mexico* for Mexicans to run back *to!*
> 
> And America will be the *exact same shithole* they ran from! Aye yai yai!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There will be no escape for Americans. It will be one big western hemisphere shithole run by people like Hugo Chavez who will threaten the eastern hemisphere with nuclear destruction from US weapons that cowardly Americans cheerfully turned over to assholes like him.
Click to expand...


Yep, and the truth of the matter is that our useless governments blindness to this foreign invasion will be exactly the number one factor in creating a future civil war or revolution. ~BH


----------



## LilOlLady

*COEXISTENCE OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION AND CRIME.*

You cannot say illegal immigration without thinking gangs, drugs and crime. Where one is there is the other. They tend to populate in certain areas and in those areas are high incidents of crime. Ive seen this in Phoenix and Tucson. In southern California and in the Bay area and here in Reno. 

In the neighborhoods of the  these schools; Sparks, Glenn Duncan, Anderson, Smithridge and Pine, the schools are over 80% Hispanics and in those areas are high incident of gangs, drugs and crime.

In 1975 I lived on Robinhood near Anderson elementary and last year my car was stolen and found on Robinhood and just yesterday a drive by shooting of a car and apartment.  This is the norm in neighborhoods with high populations of Hispanic. Ive lived in all these neighborhood since 1970 and have moved when Hispanics moved in bringing with them gangs, drugs and crime. 

I have never lived in high crime areas of southern California and the Bay area, but I get news daily from those areas and the same statistics exist. So when we hear hard working illegal aliens you can believe it coexist with gangs, drugs and crime. With hard working illegal aliens crossing the border to work and give their families a better life, you can bet your life criminals are crossing with them and possible terrorist. 

I cannot help wondering how many criminals were given amnesty in 1986? What did the process of elimination consist of if any? Or was it just blind amnesty which Comprehensive Immigration Reform will possibly be because it is impossible to separate the hard working illegal aliens from the criminal illegal alien. Background check cannot be reliable when there are so many aliases from false or stolen documents. Many of these people do not even have a birth certificate. Almost every hard working illegal alien family unit have a criminal member and will we separate families? I dont think so. And once again we will have a repeat performance of 1986. Blind amnesty disguised as Comprehensive Immigration Reform. And a penalty, going to the end of the line and a path to citizenship is a joke not even worth discussing.

Because of the 1986 amnesty we have thousands of criminals we cannot deport because they are legal and a ward of American tax payers.

Illegal immigration and crime is like a disease and it has spread like an epidemic out of control.

No one want to discuss the criminal element of illegal immigration for fear of being labeled xenophobic or racist and lost of Hispanic votes. 

These people, hard working or criminals, has no respect for the rule of law and still we have leaders who want to put them in our neighborhoods permanently. 

Open your eyes and see that we are heading full speed toward a third world country with no solution. 

*Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice, shame on you.*


----------



## mudwhistle

gekaap said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *SIMPLE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION SOLUTION.*
> 
> We don't have to do anything other then make it impossible for them to work here and they will leave with their anchor babies and they will not come. It is as simple as that. Nothing more has to be done. It will work and it is inexpensive. *Mandatory E-Verify on employers with punishment and heavy penalties.* And that will stop illegal immigration in it tracks.
> 
> All the other crap is just a waste of time and money. With holding citizenship is a must. But rounding them up and putting them on train, busses and planes, SB1070 laws included is just just a waste of time and money. *Go after the people that hire them*. Simple as that.
> Most of them come here to work and others to have anchor babies and collect monetary welfare grants, food stamps and housing subsidies. Other for criminal reasons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's already illegal to hire undocumented workers.  Levying another mandatory employment practice will not accomplish anything.  The main problem is a horrid lack of enforcement of current immigration and labor laws.
Click to expand...


Tell Obama about your concerns.


----------



## gekaap

mudwhistle said:


> Tell Obama about your concerns.



Yes, that is my best remedy...to hold the elected officials accountable for current lack of enforcement.  Better than to push for new laws that will likewise not be enforced.


----------



## LilOlLady

It is illegal to hire illegal aliens but it is not mandatory and it not enforced by raids. Raids work.


----------



## gekaap

I don't see how an act being illegal is not the same thing as no committing the act being "mandatory."  And yes, enforcement sucks.  That's why I said we need to actually enforce current laws.  If enforcement of current laws took place, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all because none of this would be as big of an issue.  But inasmuch as the government is not enforcing those laws, there's no good reason to expect that it will enforce new laws that are meant to have the same effect as current ones.


----------



## LostAmerican

gekaap said:


> I don't see how an act being illegal is not the same thing as no committing the act being "mandatory." And yes, enforcement sucks. That's why I said we need to actually enforce current laws. If enforcement of current laws took place, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all because none of this would be as big of an issue. But inasmuch as the government is not enforcing those laws, there's no good reason to expect that it will enforce new laws that are meant to have the same effect as current ones.


 
Start a nationwide campaign to stop paying taxes until all the illegals and their spawn are thrown out of the US.


----------



## LilOlLady

* Utah house, senate pass immigration bill package*
March 5th, 2011 1:44 pm MT .

 SALT LAKE CITY - The Utah Legislature passed two immigration bills late Friday night - one enforcement only, the other a worker-permit bill that would allow people to work here legally.

HB 497, sponsored by Representative Stephen Sandstrom-Orem provides law enforcement with the ability to check the immigration status of anyone who is arrested for a felony or class A misdemeanor. Sandstrom had to remove the words &#8220;reasonable suspicion&#8221; from his original HB70 in order to get the Senate to pass the legislation.

HB 116, sponsored by Representative Bill Wright-R, Holden, allows illegal immigrants to acquire a permit that would allow them to live and work in Utah. The program will require a federal waiver, but could provide a blueprint for similar federal legislation.
 Continue reading on Examiner.com: Utah house, senate pass immigration bill package - Salt Lake City Political Buzz | Examiner.com Utah house, senate pass immigration bill package - Salt Lake City Political Buzz | Examiner.com

Utah house, senate pass immigration bill package - Salt Lake City Political Buzz | Examiner.com



http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-salt-lake-city/utah-passes-immigration-bill-package


----------



## High_Gravity

LilOlLady said:


> *Illegals Could Work Legally Under Utah's Immigration Bill*
> 
> Monday, 07 Mar 2011
> 
> MESA - Over the weekend at the Utah Capitol in Salt Lake City, protesters called for Utah's governor not to sign a law similar to SB 1070.
> 
> House Bill 497 passed Utah's House and Senate. The immigration measure would allow illegal immigrants to get a* permit to work in Utah *-- but also requires that police check the immigrant status of anyone stopped for *a felony or serious misdemeanor*.
> 
> Supporters say the entire package balances *economic needs and compassion*, while opponents argue it will likely encourage more illegal immigration.
> 
> The governor still needs to sign the legislation, and the *feds would have to approve the guest worker program*.
> 
> Wright says the *federal government can't solve the whole problem without states' help *and Utah wants a situation that will work in the future.
> 
> http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/national/utahs-immigration-bill-3-7-2011:confused::cuckoo:



Utahs Hispanic population is going to quadruple in 10 years, they already give drivers licenses to illegals who have no papers.


----------



## LilOlLady

The Utah Legislature passed a pair of immigration bills aimed at striking a balance between people who want to *deport all illegal immigrants *and those who want to *integrate them into American society.*
Utah immigration plan could stir legal storm - USATODAY.com

This is the part I don't understand. It says deportation but where is the deportations part?
$2500 fine, learn English and given a work permit. Amnesty.
Work permit for 11 million people? Where are the jobs when there are 14 million American unemployed and cannot find jobs?
"We cannot deport 11 million people" is the same old lame excuse. We only have to start rounding them up and they will self deport to get the best seats and jobs back home.
I hope 11 million illegal aliens move to Utah.

It is my understanding that ACLU  oppose the law. Saying it duplicates SB1070??


----------



## High_Gravity

Why is Utah so kind to illegals? I expected California to pull this kind of stuff.


----------



## LilOlLady

*West Valley teen facing deportation a poster boy for immigration reform*

Aaron Vaughn, 
Web Content Producer 
FOX 13 News
January 20, 2011

WEST VALLEY CITY, Utah While David Morales, 18, was *on a bus to attend bible school*, he was stopped by customs agents and was arrested for residing in the U.S. illegally. Some would say this is perfectly fine according to law, but many opponents say that Morales is the poster boy for what is wrong with immigration law.

David's family came to Utah illegally when he was 9-years-old. *Morales considers himself a Utahn and an American citizen.* But now as customs agents hold him in a Louisiana jail cell, they say that *he is to be deported to Mexico*.

Under federal law, *Morales is simply an illegal immigrant*. So when *Immigration Customs Enforcement conducted a random check of the Greyhound bus* taking him to bible school in Louisiana, Morales was arrested and slated for deportation to Mexico.


UTAH IMMIGRATION: WVC teen facing deportation is poster boy for immigration reform - KSTU

*
A random check on a Grayhound bus? Do they still do this? I know it was done in the 50s but now?
Sad maybe, but the law is the law. The man that robbed the convenience store with this child to feed his child went to jail. That was sad also.
If not for the 7 million illegal aliens in the workforce, this man may have had a job and not have had to turn to robbery.*

Man robs store with daughter, 9, in tow - U.S. news - Crime & courts - msnbc.com


----------



## LostAmerican

LilOlLady said:


> "We cannot deport 11 million people"


 
Why not?


----------



## High_Gravity

LostAmerican said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> "We cannot deport 11 million people"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not?
Click to expand...


They'll just come back, they used to do that back in California in the 50's, eventually they would just come back.


----------



## LostAmerican

LilOlLady said:


> *West Valley teen facing deportation a poster boy for immigration reform*
> 
> Aaron Vaughn,
> Web Content Producer
> FOX 13 News
> January 20, 2011
> 
> WEST VALLEY CITY, Utah While David Morales, 18, was *on a bus to attend bible school*, he was stopped by customs agents and was arrested for residing in the U.S. illegally. Some would say this is perfectly fine according to law, but many opponents say that Morales is the poster boy for what is wrong with immigration law.
> 
> David's family came to Utah illegally when he was 9-years-old. *Morales considers himself a Utahn and an American citizen.* But now as customs agents hold him in a Louisiana jail cell, they say that *he is to be deported to Mexico*.
> 
> Under federal law, *Morales is simply an illegal immigrant*. So when *Immigration Customs Enforcement conducted a random check of the Greyhound bus* taking him to bible school in Louisiana, Morales was arrested and slated for deportation to Mexico.
> 
> 
> UTAH IMMIGRATION: WVC teen facing deportation is poster boy for immigration reform - KSTU
> 
> 
> _*A random check on a Grayhound bus? Do they still do this? I know it was done in the 50s but now?*_
> _*Sad maybe, but the law is the law. The man that robbed the convenience store with this child to feed his child went to jail. That was sad also.*_
> _*If not for the 7 million illegal aliens in the workforce, this man may have had a job and not have had to turn to robbery.*_
> 
> Man robs store with daughter, 9, in tow - U.S. news - Crime & courts - msnbc.com


 
Did Mexicans cry for those 50 million deaths everywhere in the world except Latin America during WW2?


----------



## LilOlLady

High_Gravity said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Illegals Could Work Legally Under Utah's Immigration Bill*
> 
> Monday, 07 Mar 2011
> 
> MESA - Over the weekend at the Utah Capitol in Salt Lake City, protesters called for Utah's governor not to sign a law similar to SB 1070.
> 
> House Bill 497 passed Utah's House and Senate. The immigration measure would allow illegal immigrants to get a* permit to work in Utah *-- but also requires that police check the immigrant status of anyone stopped for *a felony or serious misdemeanor*.
> 
> Supporters say the entire package balances *economic needs and compassion*, while opponents argue it will likely encourage more illegal immigration.
> 
> The governor still needs to sign the legislation, and the *feds would have to approve the guest worker program*.
> 
> Wright says the *federal government can't solve the whole problem without states' help *and Utah wants a situation that will work in the future.
> 
> http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/national/utahs-immigration-bill-3-7-2011:confused::cuckoo:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Utahs Hispanic population is going to quadruple in 10 years, they already give drivers licenses to illegals who have no papers.
Click to expand...




LINK'

Illegals Could Work Legally Under Utah's Immigration Bill


----------



## Angelhair

_ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL!!!!  Bible study or not; 90 years old or 9._


----------



## gekaap

High_Gravity said:


> They'll just come back, they used to do that back in California in the 50's, eventually they would just come back.



I agree.  Deporting en masse is like putting horses in an open stable.  We need to secure the borders.


----------



## gekaap

LostAmerican said:


> Did Mexicans cry for those 50 million deaths everywhere in the world except Latin America during WW2?



That's a non sequitor.  Please don't pollute an important position with horrid supporting arguments.


----------



## gekaap

As to the issue at hand, BOO FUCKING HOO!  This is the kind of scenario that pro-illegal immigration camps will cite and say that immigration policy is to blame for what's happening to this otherwise innocent kid who was brought here by his parents at a young age.  I say BLAME THE IRRESPONSIBLE PARENTS!!  What kind of decent parent would put their kid in a situation to grow up in a community, a country, to build a life, where he is constantly at risk of being taken away because the whole thing was illegal?  Illegal immigrants are unfit parents.


----------



## LostAmerican

gekaap said:


> LostAmerican said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did Mexicans cry for those 50 million deaths everywhere in the world except Latin America during WW2?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a non sequitor. Please don't pollute an important position with horrid supporting arguments.
Click to expand...

 
I don't find this to be a game. Evil has invaded the United States. It is up to every American to destroy it not just push it back so it can multiply.


----------



## editec

One of my former wards, whose mother brought him here when he was 2 years old (on her GREEN CARD..she's a Canadian citizen, a nurse has lived in the USA for the last 20 years.

He went to CA to visit some chums?

Can't get back in.

His maother and he had been trying to get him his GReen Card or citizenship since he turned 18.

Now this kid is no more a Canadian than mine is.

But there he is, now stuck in Canada desperately trying to get back to the only nation he really ever knew.

Does this kid deserve to be a US citizen?

Of COURSE he does.


----------



## Anachronism

This is REALLY, REALLY simple people.... Illegal is Illegal. ZERO Exceptions. If you don't arrive here legally, then you should not even be granted the right to trial. You should be found, tagged, and deported. If you come back and you've already been tagged, we whack you and drop your carcass off at the appropriate consulate in Washington DC for body disposal.


----------



## Mini 14

editec said:


> One of my former wards, whose mother brought him here when he was 2 years old (on her GREEN CARD..she's a Canadian citizen, a nurse has lived in the USA for the last 20 years.
> 
> He went to CA to visit some chums?
> 
> Can't get back in.
> 
> His maother and he had been trying to get him his GReen Card or citizenship since he turned 18.
> 
> Now this kid is no more a Canadian than mine is.
> 
> But there he is, now stuck in Canada desperately trying to get back to the only nation he really ever knew.
> 
> Does this kid deserve to be a US citizen?
> 
> Of COURSE he does.



I don';t know if he "deserves" it or not.

All I know is he is illegal.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

LilOlLady said:


> *West Valley teen facing deportation a poster boy for immigration reform*
> 
> Aaron Vaughn,
> Web Content Producer
> FOX 13 News
> January 20, 2011
> 
> WEST VALLEY CITY, Utah While David Morales, 18, was *on a bus to attend bible school*, he was stopped by customs agents and was arrested for residing in the U.S. illegally. Some would say this is perfectly fine according to law, but many opponents say that Morales is the poster boy for what is wrong with immigration law.
> 
> David's family came to Utah illegally when he was 9-years-old. *Morales considers himself a Utahn and an American citizen.* But now as customs agents hold him in a Louisiana jail cell, they say that *he is to be deported to Mexico*.
> 
> Under federal law, *Morales is simply an illegal immigrant*. So when *Immigration Customs Enforcement conducted a random check of the Greyhound bus* taking him to bible school in Louisiana, Morales was arrested and slated for deportation to Mexico.
> 
> 
> UTAH IMMIGRATION: WVC teen facing deportation is poster boy for immigration reform - KSTU
> 
> *
> A random check on a Grayhound bus? Do they still do this? I know it was done in the 50s but now?
> Sad maybe, but the law is the law. The man that robbed the convenience store with this child to feed his child went to jail. That was sad also.
> If not for the 7 million illegal aliens in the workforce, this man may have had a job and not have had to turn to robbery.*
> 
> Man robs store with daughter, 9, in tow - U.S. news - Crime & courts - msnbc.com



That situation sucks for him.

I wish his parents never broke the law coming here illegally and dragging him along without regard to how it would impact their childs life later.  

Its a shame his parents didn't do the right thing and come here legally, then this poor and unfortunate young man wouldn't be in this predicament.    

I feel bad for him but my feeling bad doesn't excuse what his parents decided to do to their family.


----------



## Mad Scientist

What makes America great is that we're a nation of LAWS, not a nation of Dictators. It's time to start enforcing those laws otherwise we'll end up being a corrupt, narco state shithole like Mexico.


----------



## Angelhair

Mad Scientist said:


> What makes America great is that we're a nation of LAWS, not a nation of Dictators. It's time to start enforcing those laws otherwise we'll end up being a corrupt, narco state shithole like Mexico.



_We already are.  If not a shit hole, just as corrupt.  And the majority of it happened from 2008._


----------



## Angelhair

lostamerican said:


> lilollady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *west valley teen facing deportation a poster boy for immigration reform*
> 
> aaron vaughn,
> web content producer
> fox 13 news
> january 20, 2011
> 
> west valley city, utah while david morales, 18, was *on a bus to attend bible school*, he was stopped by customs agents and was arrested for residing in the u.s. Illegally. Some would say this is perfectly fine according to law, but many opponents say that morales is the poster boy for what is wrong with immigration law.
> 
> David's family came to utah illegally when he was 9-years-old. *morales considers himself a utahn and an american citizen.* but now as customs agents hold him in a louisiana jail cell, they say that *he is to be deported to mexico*.
> 
> Under federal law, *morales is simply an illegal immigrant*. So when *immigration customs enforcement conducted a random check of the greyhound bus* taking him to bible school in louisiana, morales was arrested and slated for deportation to mexico.
> 
> 
> utah immigration: Wvc teen facing deportation is poster boy for immigration reform - kstu
> 
> 
> _*a random check on a grayhound bus? Do they still do this? I know it was done in the 50s but now?*_
> _*sad maybe, but the law is the law. The man that robbed the convenience store with this child to feed his child went to jail. That was sad also.*_
> _*if not for the 7 million illegal aliens in the workforce, this man may have had a job and not have had to turn to robbery.*_
> 
> man robs store with daughter, 9, in tow - u.s. News - crime & courts - msnbc.com_
> 
> did mexicans cry for those 50 million deaths everywhere in the world except latin america during ww2?_
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> Mexico does not believe in war - they only like to piggyback on those whose lives have been sacrificed  so that they can live to strive for the american dream that is made possible by the sacrifice of others - namely americans!!!!._
Click to expand...


----------



## gekaap

LostAmerican said:


> I don't find this to be a game. Evil has invaded the United States. It is up to every American to destroy it not just push it back so it can multiply.



So now you advocate destroying Mexico?


----------



## gekaap

editec said:


> One of my former wards, whose mother brought him here when he was 2 years old (on her GREEN CARD..she's a Canadian citizen, a nurse has lived in the USA for the last 20 years.
> 
> He went to CA to visit some chums?
> 
> Can't get back in.
> 
> His maother and he had been trying to get him his GReen Card or citizenship since he turned 18.
> 
> Now this kid is no more a Canadian than mine is.
> 
> But there he is, now stuck in Canada desperately trying to get back to the only nation he really ever knew.
> 
> Does this kid deserve to be a US citizen?
> 
> Of COURSE he does.



He doesn't deserve to be a citizen until he gets it done.  This is the problem, this idea of people "deserving" to be citizens of the US.


----------



## LilOlLady

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *West Valley teen facing deportation a poster boy for immigration reform*
> 
> Aaron Vaughn,
> Web Content Producer
> FOX 13 News
> January 20, 2011
> 
> WEST VALLEY CITY, Utah While David Morales, 18, was *on a bus to attend bible school*, he was stopped by customs agents and was arrested for residing in the U.S. illegally. Some would say this is perfectly fine according to law, but many opponents say that Morales is the poster boy for what is wrong with immigration law.
> 
> David's family came to Utah illegally when he was 9-years-old. *Morales considers himself a Utahn and an American citizen.* But now as customs agents hold him in a Louisiana jail cell, they say that *he is to be deported to Mexico*.
> 
> Under federal law, *Morales is simply an illegal immigrant*. So when *Immigration Customs Enforcement conducted a random check of the Greyhound bus* taking him to bible school in Louisiana, Morales was arrested and slated for deportation to Mexico.
> 
> 
> UTAH IMMIGRATION: WVC teen facing deportation is poster boy for immigration reform - KSTU
> 
> *
> A random check on a Grayhound bus? Do they still do this? I know it was done in the 50s but now?
> Sad maybe, but the law is the law. The man that robbed the convenience store with this child to feed his child went to jail. That was sad also.
> If not for the 7 million illegal aliens in the workforce, this man may have had a job and not have had to turn to robbery.*
> 
> Man robs store with daughter, 9, in tow - U.S. news - Crime & courts - msnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That situation sucks for him.
> 
> I wish his parents never broke the law coming here illegally and dragging him along without regard to how it would impact their childs life later.
> 
> Its a shame his parents didn't do the right thing and come here legally, then this *poor and unfortunate young man *wouldn't be in this predicament.
> 
> *I feel bad *for him but my feeling bad doesn't excuse what his parents decided to do to their family.
Click to expand...


Don't worry about him. He will adjust better in Mexico than he did when he came here at age 9. He knows the language, the culture and probably have family there. That is not exactly our problem. He should be pissed at his parent for putting him in this predicament. Send them back with him.
I don't think it is sad at all. Deportation back to Mexico may be good for him. He might even do something good for Mexico. More should be deported. People are going back to Mexico and taking their American born children with them. So it must not be so bad. Many Americans retire in Mexico.. Many Amercan student go to school there.


----------



## LilOlLady

gekaap said:


> LostAmerican said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't find this to be a game. Evil has invaded the United States. It is up to every American to* destroy it *not just push it back so it can multiply.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now you advocate *destroying Mexico*?
Click to expand...




Where did you get this from? That is not what LostAmerican was suggesting. Mexico is doing a good job themselves of destroying their country. What happen to a town when it's people leave? I dies.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Impacts of Illegal Immigration: Jobs*

The MSM report ad nauseam that illegal aliens are only *"doing work that Americans won't*." This mantra is mercilessly bandied about by illegal immigration supporters and echoes throughout the halls of Congress and the White House whenever the topic comes up. What is never mentioned, however, is that the illegal aliens are artificially depressing compensation and that illegal aliens are the only ones who will do the work at such low wages. In actual fact, illegal immigration distorts the law of supply and demand in a capitalistic society. Additionally it is grossly hypocritical to want to raise the minimum wage on one hand while the other hand winks at illegal aliens working at far below prevailing wages.

In any case, *illegal aliens are not just picking lettuce and digging ditches any more*. It wasn't that long ago that being *a dry-waller, brick-layer, house framer, painter, roofer, carpet layer, plumber, or electrician* was a decently compensated, middle class trade. Now it is increasingly becoming the work for illegal aliens at far less than the free market rate. While illegal alien workers are only a small portion of many of those job categories *their willingness to work at dramatically lower rates artificially drags down the compensation for all workers.* 

Impacts of Illegal Immigration: Jobs

*
To say that Americans would rather sit on their butts and collect welfare rather than do these services jobs are ridiculous. You don't just decide you want welfare and stroll into an office and fill our an application and expect to get a welfare check next month. Applicaitons are atleast 25 pages long and most people tear them up before the finish filling them out. Most people are truned down for welfare than is accpeted. Plus welfare do not pay nearly as much as flipping burgers at Burger king. 
This is the best article that I have read yet on the issue of jobs and illegal aliens.*


----------



## LilOlLady

AFDC. Aid for Families with Dependent Children only give assistent to the child. Never to the adult and the adult has to be unable to work for some legit reason or they are turned down. Since Welfare Reform by Clinton, there are no more career welfare dependents.


----------



## LilOlLady

*1996 Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act*From SourceWatch
Jump to: navigation, search
The 1996 Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act (PRWOR) (PL 104-193), also known as the 1996 Welfare Reform Act, was signed in to law on August 22, 1996, by President Bill Clinton. The Act is described by the U.S. Government as "a comprehensive bipartisan welfare reform plan that will dramatically change the nation's welfare system into one that *requires work in exchange for time-limited assistance.* The law contains *strong work requirements*, a performance bonus to reward states for moving welfare recipients into jobs, state maintenance of effort requirements, *comprehensive child support enforcement, and supports for families moving from welfare to work *-- including *increased funding for child care *and *guaranteed medical coverage*." 
1996 Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act - SourceWatch

*I saw welfare office almost empty after this act on welfare.*

*Then an increase of young hispanic women with young children applying with the increase in anchor babies. Even more now since the economy went bad with applications for food stamps to suppliment unemployment.*


----------



## LilOlLady

The Flipside of the Immigration Issue: 
*American Emigrants Impact Mexico*

Why is it that in Washington conversations tend to be one-sided?

Take for instance my favorite subject these days  immigration. The focus always centers on Mexican immigrants and their impact on U.S. society. Nobody wants to talk about the flip side of this conversation - that while, yes, Mexican immigrants are coming north, there also are American emigrants going south

---------------


Burns estimates, based on a range of data, that a retired couple living off $26,400 a year in Social Security benefits can raise their standard of living, *without paying Medicare expenses, *to $42,400 by moving to Mexico, where the cost *of living can be up to 40% lower than in the USA*.

U.S. retirees who can't afford private Mexican health insurance can qualify for the Mexican Social Security system. Mexico's health care system charges only *$270 annual premiums *that include access to *hospitals, outpatient clinics, and all medications and care at no additional costs.*

The Flipside of the Immigration Issue: American Emigrants Impact Mexico (Latina Lista)


----------



## LilOlLady

*Mexico's health care lures Americans  *Updated 9/1/2009  
By Chris Hawley, USA TODAY


MEXICO CITY &#8212; It sounds almost too good to be true: a health care plan with no limits, no deductibles, free medicines, tests, X-rays, eyeglasses, even dental work &#8212; *all for a flat fee of $250 or less a year*. 
To get it, you just have to move to Mexico. 

As the United States debates an overhaul of its health care system, thousands of American retirees in Mexico have quietly found a solution of their own, signing up for the *health care plan run by the Mexican Social Security Institute*
Mexico's health care lures Americans - USATODAY.com


----------



## Tank

The cost of living is much lower, because the standard of living is much lower


----------



## LilOlLady

*Mexico's Immigration Law: Let's Try It Here at Home*
by J. Michael Waller

05/08/2006
Mexico has a radical idea for a rational immigration policy that most Americans would love. However, Mexican officials havent been sharing that idea with us as they press for our Congress to adopt the McCain-Kennedy immigration reform bill.

That's too bad, because Mexico, which annually deports more illegal aliens than the United States does, has much to teach us about how it handles the immigration issue. Under Mexican law, *it is a felony to be an illegal alien in Mexico*
*Mexico welcomes only foreigners who will be useful to Mexican society*:

McCain-Kennedy Immigration Reform Bill vs. Mexico's Immigration Law - HUMAN EVENTS


----------



## LostAmerican

Tank said:


> The cost of living is much lower, because the standard of living is much lower


 
Do you really want to eat Mexican food 3 times a day, listen to loud crappy music, get mean looks from the locals wherever you go, have to dumb down your conversations to speak to anyone, and....

....that sounds a lot like prison!!


----------



## Angelhair

_Mexico is NOT what it used to be - no matter how it's painted it is still CRAP!!!  Health care in Mexico is also crap - which will be the same here also very soon - if not already._


----------



## High_Gravity

Angelhair said:


> _Mexico is NOT what it used to be - no matter how it's painted it is still CRAP!!!  Health care in Mexico is also crap - which will be the same here also very soon - if not already._



What do you mean Mexico is not what it used to be? did Mexico used to be good?


----------



## LilOlLady

LostAmerican said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> The cost of living is much lower, because the standard of living is much lower
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really want to eat Mexican food 3 times a day, listen to loud crappy music, get mean looks from the locals wherever you go, have to dumb down your conversations to speak to anyone, and....
> 
> ....that sounds a lot like prison!!
Click to expand...


I guess thousands of Americans do. Do Mexican here have to eat hotdogs and hamburgers 3 times a day? Amerians can cook. I get mean look from Amerians all the time. I am native american and have been mistaken as an Illegal alien, Philipino, and Arab. Latino music has taken over my radio and TV stations. I sometime already feel I am living in Mexico. I just moved from a community call little Tiajuana.
I go into WalMart or K-Mart and specials are announced in Spanish. Pick up food items and you have to search for for English translation. I dial a public business and I have to punch 1 for English.
I should feel right at home in Mexico. I speak the language also. If I moved to Mexico as a retiree, my standard fof living would go way up.


----------



## High_Gravity

LilOlLady said:


> LostAmerican said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> The cost of living is much lower, because the standard of living is much lower
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really want to eat Mexican food 3 times a day, listen to loud crappy music, get mean looks from the locals wherever you go, have to dumb down your conversations to speak to anyone, and....
> 
> ....that sounds a lot like prison!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess thousands of Americans do. Do Mexican here have to eat hotdogs and hamburgers 3 times a day? Amerians can cook. I get mean look from Amerians all the time. I am native american and have been mistaken as an Illegal alien, Philipino, and Arab. Latino music has taken over my radio and TV stations. I sometime already feel I am living in Mexico. I just moved from a community call little Tiajuana.
> I go into WalMart or K-Mart and specials are announced in Spanish. Pick up food items and you have to search for for English translation. I dial a public business and I have to punch 1 for English.
> I should feel right at home in Mexico. I speak the language also. If I moved to Mexico as a retiree, my standard fof living would go way up.
Click to expand...


When I was driving to Virginia from California after I separated from the Military I drove through Arizona, New Mexico and Texas and let me tell you, alot of the little towns down there are no different than Mexico, Spanish is the first language, the radio stations are in Spanish and they have Mexican soap operas. Large Parts of the South West are pretty much parts of Mexico only technically part of the US.


----------



## LilOlLady

High_Gravity said:


> Angelhair said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Mexico is NOT what it used to be - no matter how it's painted it is still CRAP!!!  Health care in Mexico is also crap - which will be the same here also very soon - if not already._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean Mexico is not what it used to be? did Mexico used to be good?
Click to expand...


American is not what it used to be either. 
Depends on where you go in Mexico. Go where drug cartels families actually live and there is no crime in their neighborhoods. You don't have to lock your doors are cars, Children are safe.etc.
Depends on where you live in America. Next door to the white house or in Chief of Police Beck's neighborhood.
I now finally live in a gated community and I pay for it to have a little peace in my golden years. If I moved to Mexico, I would move to Guadalajara.


----------



## LostAmerican

LilOlLady said:


> LostAmerican said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> The cost of living is much lower, because the standard of living is much lower
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really want to eat Mexican food 3 times a day, listen to loud crappy music, get mean looks from the locals wherever you go, have to dumb down your conversations to speak to anyone, and....
> 
> ....that sounds a lot like prison!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess thousands of Americans do. Do Mexican here have to eat hotdogs and hamburgers 3 times a day? Amerians can cook. I get mean look from Amerians all the time. I am native american and have been mistaken as an Illegal alien, Philipino, and Arab. Latino music has taken over my radio and TV stations. I sometime already feel I am living in Mexico. I just moved from a community call little Tiajuana.
> I go into WalMart or K-Mart and specials are announced in Spanish. Pick up food items and you have to search for for English translation. I dial a public business and I have to punch 1 for English.
> I should feel right at home in Mexico. I speak the language also. If I moved to Mexico as a retiree, my standard fof living would go way up.
Click to expand...

 
I wonder what number you push for English in Mexico?


----------



## LilOlLady

*LAPD to Protect Illegal Aliens Drivers and Cars*
Written by CA Political News on March 13, 2011,  

*LAPD limits impounding of unlicensed drivers' cars*
Previous policy for sobriety checkpoints had been criticized by immigration advocacy groups.


By Joel Rubin and Ari Bloomekatz, Los Angeles Times, 3/12/11   
TO SEE THE COMPLETE STORY CLICK ON THE BLUE HEADLINE

Police Chief Charlie Beck said that since he took over the department more than a year ago, the checkpoint policy had *"stuck in my craw as one of the things we weren't doing the right way.*" Beck said he decided to make the change after immigration *rights advocates *raised the issue with him anew in meetings this week.


CA Political News | show
*
Beck want them to have transportation to jobs they take from american, school their children attend and welfare offices they file for benefits.*


----------



## LostAmerican

LilOlLady said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelhair said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Mexico is NOT what it used to be - no matter how it's painted it is still CRAP!!! Health care in Mexico is also crap - which will be the same here also very soon - if not already._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean Mexico is not what it used to be? did Mexico used to be good?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> American is not what it used to be either.
> Depends on where you go in Mexico. Go where drug cartels families actually live and there is no crime in their neighborhoods. You don't have to lock your doors are cars, Children are safe.etc.
> Depends on where you live in America. Next door to the white house or in Chief of Police Beck's neighborhood.
> I now finally live in a gated community and I pay for it to have a little peace in my golden years. If I moved to Mexico, I would move to Guadalajara.
Click to expand...

 
No bunch of invading Mexicans are going to force me to leave my America. God put me here, not Mexicans. He'll get His revenge for them destroying the US and making poor Americans starve. Just watch.


----------



## gekaap

LostAmerican said:


> Do you really want to eat Mexican food 3 times a day



Mexican food is some of the most amazing food in the world.  But I doubt you know what Mexican food is like.  You probably hear "Mexican food" and you think of Taco Bell or some crappy "Mexican" restaurant in town that is about as Mexican as Pizza Hut is Italian.  The only drawback with Mexican food is that it can be fattening.  But the one thing I miss about living in Texas is the fact that you cannot get real Mexican food anywhere around where I live now.


----------



## High_Gravity

gekaap said:


> LostAmerican said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really want to eat Mexican food 3 times a day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mexican food is some of the most amazing food in the world.  But I doubt you know what Mexican food is like.  You probably hear "Mexican food" and you think of Taco Bell or some crappy "Mexican" restaurant in town that is about as Mexican as Pizza Hut is Italian.  The only drawback with Mexican food is that it can be fattening.  But the one thing I miss about living in Texas is the fact that you cannot get real Mexican food anywhere around where I live now.
Click to expand...


Mexican food is definently fantastic.

















I love Shrimp Fajitas.


----------



## LostAmerican

gekaap said:


> LostAmerican said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really want to eat Mexican food 3 times a day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mexican food is some of the most amazing food in the world. But I doubt you know what Mexican food is like. You probably hear "Mexican food" and you think of Taco Bell or some crappy "Mexican" restaurant in town that is about as Mexican as Pizza Hut is Italian. The only drawback with Mexican food is that it can be fattening. But the one thing I miss about living in Texas is the fact that you cannot get real Mexican food anywhere around where I live now.
Click to expand...

 
You can tell when it's genuine Mexican food. 
It smells like sweaty armpits!


----------



## waltky

Granny says, "Dat's right - is cause most of `em is here illegally an' dey got somebody else's identity...

*Census finds more Hispanics than originally estimated*
_Monday, March 14,`11: More Hispanics were counted in the census than anticipated, reflecting the difficulty of calculating the size of the Hispanic population in states where the communities are small and growing rapidly, according to a new study._


> The 2010 Census counts of Hispanics were higher in 23 of the first 33 states whose population counts were released, including Virginia and Maryland, the Pew Hispanic Centers analysis showed. Most of the growth was in states that have fewer than 1 million Latinos and that are relatively recent destinations for large numbers of Hispanics, underscoring how Hispanics have spread to communities where they havent lived before.
> 
> The Pew analysis compares the actual count made in April with annual estimates the Census Bureau makes using birth and death records. The estimates are useful to demographers and planners. More importantly, they are the basis for determining how billions of dollars in federal funds are distributed.  In Virginia, 40,000 more Hispanics were counted in the 2010 Census than expected, based on previous census estimates. The difference between the 592,000 thought to be residing in the state and the 632,000 actually counted was almost 7 percent.
> 
> The gap was larger in Maryland. The census counted 471,000 Hispanics instead of the 425,000 estimated, an almost 11 percent difference. Detailed statistics for the District have not been released.  The biggest discrepancy Pew found was in Alabama, where the census count of 186,000 people was 16 percent higher than estimated.  In contrast, gaps were much smaller in many states with large and long-standing Hispanic communities. In California, Colorado, Illinois and Texas, for example, the actual count and the estimate varied by less than 1 percent, Pew said.
> 
> Because the estimates were so accurate in these states with a lot of Hispanic residents, the total nationwide census count of about 39 million Hispanics was 1.5 percent higher than previous census estimates had suggested.  That was a considerable improvement. The 2000 Census count of 35 million Hispanics was almost 10 percent higher than census estimates. In some states that year, the count was 50 percent above the estimate.
> 
> Source


----------



## Angelhair

_The fact that this country is being inundated with hispanics does not mean it's a good thing.  Let's wait and see what they give instead of take from it.  So far all they have done is take.  Maybe the furture will show something different but so far that is not the case.  This crying victory by the spanish news media due to the rise in the latino population is getting a mite sickening as they seem to think that this country will continue to prosper under them when they become the majority. ' Me' thinks they are in for a BIG surprise and will be the first ones to cry about it and continue their cry of racism when they see that they are ill prepared to continue to make this country the great country which it is now. Quantity does not mean a thing; quality means everything._


----------



## LilOlLady

*How to control illegal immigration by Rep. Peck.*
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011 ... e-pigs.php

Rep. Pecks analogy of controlling hogs and illegal immigration by shooting them from helicopters drew demands for an apology and compared him to those who oppose abortions that kill innocent in the womb.
At the same time those who demanded an apology condone the killing of innocent Muslim men, women and children when we drop bombs on terrorist and they get in the way. We have actually been doing it for the past 10 years in *Iraq and Afghanistan*. We did in in world war 11 when we dropped bombs, twice, on innocent J*apanese men, women and children* all in the name of war. We did in it in *Vietnam* when we deliberately killed innocent men, women and children. Rep. Peck gave a simple apology but that was not enough for some. We have been making simple apologies to leaders of Afghanistan and Iraq for the pass 10 years and keep killing innocent Muslims when they get in the way of our targeting terrorist.
Illegal aliens invade and occupy this country killing 15 Americans daily and raping 8 children daily, costing tax payers billions and some want to make it easier for them to enter? After being invaded by 20 million illegal aliens we still have not recognized that we are at war with a foreign entity that want to do us harm.
We condemn killing the innocent in the womb and when they grow up we should still condone killing innocent people.
Rep. Peck was just joking, but this is what happens when our government stand by and do nothing to stop illegal immigration.


----------



## LilOlLady

Deleted; Old news.


----------



## FA_Q2

LilOlLady said:


> Illegal aliens invade and occupy this country killing 15 Americans daily and raping 8 children daily,



Do you have a source for this.  I find getting accurate information in this aria to be quite difficult as it is covered up due to it being politically incorrect to report crime rates for illegals.

Also, I could not get our link to work.  Don't know why but it was forbidden...


----------



## LilOlLady

*ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION; ENTITLEMENT PROGRAM*

The biggest and most expensive entitlement program we have. Illegal immigration is a liability not an asset.

Illegal aliens do not pay enough taxes to off what they receive in benefits such as education, healthcare, welfare and public housing and law enforcement and incarcerations.  Cutting this program will save us billions. Many states with large populations of illegal aliens are bankrupt.
How is it that 7.5 million low wage earning illegal aliens in our workforce earn enough money to send $35 billion back to their home countries each year? $35 million earned in this country going into the economy of other countries and they are doing nothing in using any of that money to provide for their people in this country. American tax payers are footing the bill with what jobs are left for them.

Cutting the illegal immigration program will go a long way in balancing federal and state budgets.

Utah want to expand that entitlement program by giving them green cards so they can legally take more jobs from Americans and send more money home going into that countrys economy.

Democrats are big on entitlement programs for the poor as was Jesus but Jesus did believe in taking care of your own first and Mexico need to take responsible for its own people.

We take one step forward in controlling immigration and federal government take us two steps backward.

I heard Arizona is relaxing its enforcement laws regarding drivers license, hospital admits and schools. Cannot ask for proof of citizenship.

All are efforts is just a patch like my mother used to do to my fathers pants, but eventually those pant had to be thrown away.  We will eventually bypass green cards and path to citizenship and go full force ahead with amnesty. It will save us money that we are using the patch the problem that eventually will lead to amnesty anyway.


----------



## LilOlLady

*GOP lawmaker backs off Arizona-style immigration law*
Associated Press 
Posted: 02/09/2011 

PHOENIX  Arizona legislators took a timeout from illegal immigration with the Senate easily defeating five related bills, reflecting little appetite for an issue that made the state the focus of national debate and protest last year.

Majority Republicans were split Thursday in their votes on the defeated bills, which included two measures intended to force a U.S. Supreme Court ruling against automatic citizenship for U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants. The other three dealt with health care, public services and everyday activities such as driving.
Ariz. Senate rejects illegal immigration bills - Yahoo! News


*
WTF do we even try to enforce immigration laws. We take one step forward and back off two steps? Why dont we just go straight to amnesty and stop this game playing between democrats and republicans. Neither of them are serious about anything to do with immigration enforcement. Just when we think we are getting ahead something stops us dead in our tracks.*


----------



## LilOlLady

FA_Q2 said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal aliens invade and occupy this country killing 15 Americans daily and raping 8 children daily,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a source for this.  I find getting accurate information in this aria to be quite difficult as it is covered up due to it being politically incorrect to report crime rates for illegals.
> 
> Also, I could not get our link to work.  Don't know why but it was forbidden...
Click to expand...


*INVASION USA*
Illegal aliens murder 12 Americans daily
Death toll in 2006 far overshadows total U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq, Afghanistan
By Joseph Farah
November 28, 2006
© 2011 WorldNetDaily.com 

WASHINGTON  While the military "quagmire" in Iraq was said to tip the scales of power in the U.S. midterm elections, most Americans have no idea more of their fellow citizens  men, women and children  were murdered this year by illegal aliens than the combined death toll of U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan since those military campaigns began.

While King reports *12 Americans are murdered daily by illegal aliens*, he says *13 are killed by drunk illegal alien drivers * for another annual death toll of 4,745. That's 23,725 since Sept. 11, 2001.

King also reports *eight American children are victims of sexual abuse by illegal aliens every day*  a total of 2,920 annually.

Read more: Illegal aliens murder 12 Americans daily Illegal aliens murder 12 Americans daily

Illegal aliens murder 12 Americans daily


----------



## LilOlLady

*Far right fit to be tied over defeat of Arizona immigration bills *

As expected, those on the far fringe of the Republican Party are after the *11 GOP senators who had the nerve *(I would call it courage and good common sense) to *vote against at least one of a series of illegal immigration bills on Thursday*.

Apparently, if the bill contains the words *"illegal immigration*" and you're a Republican, you're  supposed to march in lockstep with the right wing or get out of line at your peril.

The right wing blog Sonoran Alliance is calling them *"Turncoat Republicans*"and asking people to contact them and demand they change their votes when the bills come up for reconsideration next week. And if not, we are told that the *Tea Party will consider recalls*.

azcentral.com blogs - Laurie Roberts' Columns & Blog - LaurieRoberts - Far right fit to be tied over defeat of Arizona immigration bills

 *How is enforcing our immigration laws going to far?  Or backing off enforcement because it cost too much? When has a price tag been put on lives of Amerians?
*


----------



## get involved

LilOlLady said:


> ARIZ BOYCOTTS HURT HISPANICS
> 
> 
> Arizona boycotts will hurt Hispanics who make up the large part of the hospitality industry. A no win situation for all. But Arizona will recover and SB107 is not going away.
> 
> Arizona illegal aliens who are protesting will protest them selves out of jobs and out of the state saving Arizona billions in education, healthcare, law enforcement and welfare.
> 
> If illegal aliens are force to leave, either by SB1070 or boycotts, they will go to other state and they will have to provide jobs, healthcare, education, law enforcement and welfare. Costing those states.
> 
> If SB1070 is unconstitutional so is the Federal Immigration and Nationality Act that gives Arizona state and local officers the right to do exactly what SB1070 allows them to do. Federal Immigration and Nationality Act goes even farther to allow racial profiling. Hispanic appearance coupled with reasonable suspicion. I guess that does not make a difference since ICE do not process those illegal aliens Arizona turn over the them. They are released if there is no criminal act other than illegal entry.



I can tell by your incredible grasp of the English language that you are indeed a constitutional scholar and a deep thinker.

BTW:  There is no "if" about it. SB1070 WAS unconstitutional. Arizona had to remove much of that awful law before implementing it.

What most of you low-information folks don't understand is this:  ONLY the Feds can make and enforce immigration laws.  States cannot do it. They cannot make any law that overrides the Feds....any law....period.

The biggest problem in AZ is the Governor, her criminal cronies, her kisses the backsides of her big donors - like the Corrections Corporation of America...who own many prisons in AZ. (1070 is THEIR bill....they paid off Gov. Blondie and her henchman to get it done...would have added millions of dollars to their bottom line).

AZ, like many other states, have been taken over by the crackpots, poorly educated, easily influenced folks interested in one thing...filling their own pockets. 

Statistics show that illegal immigration has fallen consistently in AZ for years....that crimes committed by undocumented immigrants has fallen over 30% between 2009 and today.

And,.....many sheriffs in that state refuse to enforce the parts of 1070 that ARE in effect and allowed by Federal courts.


----------



## get involved

Charles_Main said:


> English, Irish, German, Scot, Welsh and Native American by blood here. 100% American at heart.
> 
> Speaking specifically of Hispanic Illegal Immigrants. Why does it seem like so many of them do not actually want to be Americans? They want to work here and send money home, Not learn the language, and not assimilate at all into our society. Not all of them by any means but it sure seems like more than any other group of immigrants. Maybe it is just because there are so many more of them than any other group. It just seems like when our ancestors came here, they came here to be Americans, Not to be Mexicans living in America and supporting Mexico.
> 
> Just saying.


With a little research on your part, you'll find that several million people live and work here and send their money home to families. They are here by invitation or by working visas..they do not live here, do not want to live here.  They are here to work and support their families.

Not everyone wants to be a citizen...they just want a job.


----------



## get involved

SW2SILVER said:


> My ass has been kicked so many times by wittier and faster  people than you, you cant imagine You can't fight these people, they will win. I tried, lord knows. Game over. But, you know what? I still have hope for the future, those poor Hispanic kids will realize just how fucking good they have it here, and 50 years from now, they will hold people like us in high regard. I know it, and they will regret this mess their parents are causing now. Those icky illegals. I mean. It might take a while. They will figure it out eventually.



Spoken like a true demagogue...and a frequent Glenn Beck viewer.


----------



## LostAmerican

get involved said:


> [BTW: There is no "if" about it. SB1070 WAS unconstitutional. Arizona had to remove much of that awful law before implementing it.
> 
> What most of you low-information folks don't understand is this: ONLY the Feds can make and enforce immigration laws. States cannot do it. They cannot make any law that overrides the Feds....any law....period.
> 
> .


 
Then aren't the sanctuary laws that town and cities create also illegal because they clearly announce that those governments will not give any aid whatsoever to the federal government? Isn't that sedition? Isn't that rebelling against federal authorities? Why not just say "We will also not enforce the taxes the federal government imposes."

Sedition:an illegal action inciting resistance to lawful authority and tending to cause the disruption or overthrow of the government


----------



## LostAmerican

get involved said:


> [Statistics show that illegal immigration has fallen consistently in AZ for years....that crimes committed by undocumented immigrants has fallen over 30% between 2009 and today.


 
Good old LA RAZA propaganda!! Following Hitler rule:
Tell a lie often enough and it becomes the truth!

The state, Illinois, with the greatest protections to illegal aliens also has the highest number of gang members per capita. Source....FBI


----------



## LilOlLady

*Birthright citizenship change would have wide effects*
by Daniel González and Dan Nowicki - 
Mar. 20, 2011 
The Arizona Republic


It might not happen this year, or even the next, but supporters of restricting birthright citizenship for the children of illegal immigrants are not giving up on their drive to force a reinterpretation of the 14th Amendment.

Backers of the idea, which they believe will discourage illegal immigrants from coming to the U.S., hit a major setback Thursday when the *Arizona Senate rejected two birthright citizenship bills*.


*Read more*: Birthright citizenship change would have wide effects

*
Same old lame exuse; cost too much to change. cost too much to enforce our immigration laws. cost too much to round them up and deport them. E-Verify system to costly to enforce. What about the savings in benefit given to anchor babies and their families benefit. "But they don't come here to have babies but to work" But an anchor baby is an added benefit.*


----------



## Cain

I believe that is a good thing. It is wrong for two illegals to come to the US and have a baby then the baby be legal. Two illegals do not make it legal. Even 1 illegal with a legal doesn't make it right. In my opinion of course.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Ariz. 'birthers' see tie to birthright citizenship*

By PAUL DAVENPORT Associated Press Story Published: Mar 23, 2011 at 3:50 PM PDT 

(Story Updated: Mar 23, 2011 at 6:20 PM PDT )
PHOENIX (AP) - Legislation that would require proof of U.S. birth from presidential candidates is intersecting in Arizona with the question of whether U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants are entitled to automatic citizenship.

The proposed legislation on documentation requirements for candidates asks for information on the citizenship of a candidate's parents. Tea party backers said Wednesday *they believe people are only natural-born citizens if their parents are citizens.*

Ariz. 'birthers' see tie to birthright citizenship | KLEW CBS 3 - News, Weather and Sports - Lewiston, ID - Lewiston, Idaho | National & World News


----------



## LilOlLady

*Economic impact of illegal immigrants in the United States*



Social security
*
(Never say never)*

Employment

Taxes
*
(do they pay taxes or not?)*

Education

Health care

Mortgage defaults

Economic impact of illegal immigrants in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## LilOlLady

*Mortgage defaults*

*Illegal immigrants don't default on mortgages?*
Oct 9th 2007  
by Zac Bissonnette
Filed under: Newspapers, Housing


The Journal talks about the possibility of a weakening in this lost stronghold but there's another interesting story here: *If these immigrants can pay their mortgages, why can't other people*? Part of the reason could be that these mortgages are evaluated using different, more stringent metrics.

But I also wonder if *too many Americans have just lost the sense of pride and commitment *to keep their homes. If illegal immigrants can *keep their homes*, while they *send money to families abroad* and *face tough job conditions, why can't Americans*?

Illegal immigrants don't default on mortgages? - BloggingStocks



*Home mortgage relief for millions of illegals
Obama's program provides $275 billion to assist homeowners facing foreclosure *
Posted:February 24, 2009
By Jerome R. Corsi
© 2011 WorldNetDaily 

*USA offers help to homeowners facing foreclosure *

Illegal aliens can apply for mortgage relief under the Obama administration's $275 billion plan, according to immigration experts and a group the government will use to help homeowners modify loans. 

Steven Camarota, director of research at the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, D.C., told WND *approximately 1 million households headed by illegal immigrants acquired mortgages *through the beginning of 2007, before the housing bubble burst. 

"A lot of mortgage modifiers out there *never ask about the legal immigration status of the homeowner*, and we do not ask either," Buchanan said. "This is the first time I've had that question asked. All we are looking to do is to modify the current note, regardless what the legal immigration status of the client is


Read more: Home mortgage relief for millions of <I>illegals</i> Home mortgage relief for millions of <I>illegals</i>
If immigrants can keep up with their mortgages, does it really make sense for Congress to push for bailouts for homeowners who are falling behin


----------



## LilOlLady

*Mexico probes agent pursuit of migrant into river* 
Mar 25,  

MEXICO CITY &#8211; Mexican authorities have launched investigations into the behavior of an immigration agent who pursued a migrant into the river that marks the border between Mexico and Guatemala, and then *stood by the bank as the woman drifted away*, officials said Friday.

A video shot by bystanders shows the agent standing on the bank of the Usumacinta river as the female migrant barely stays afloat. She apparently *jumped into the river  to avoid capture,* and was eventually rescued by a boater.


Mexico probes agent pursuit of migrant into river - Yahoo! News

*What do they think border patrol agents are. Even Mexican agents.  Life guards? Baby sitter? Boy scouts?
She jumped into the river by choice.*


----------



## LilOlLady

*Woman escapes deportation until status of same-sex marriage made clear*
By Kristen Hamill, CNNMarch 26, 2011

New York (CNN) -- An Argentine woman living illegally in the United States after overstaying her tourist visa will not be deported until the *legality of her same-sex marriage *is made more clear.

Judge Terry A. Bain and government attorneys agreed Tuesday to halt deportation hearings in Manhattan's immigration court for Monica Alcota, 35, who came to the United States from Argentina more than 10 years ago.

Woman escapes deportation until status of same-sex marriage made clear - CNN.com
*
Can they nab her when she leaves conn?*


----------



## gekaap

No doubt, jumping in the river and risking her life was easier than immigrating legally.


----------



## del

you said "probes".


----------



## LostAmerican

LilOlLady said:


> *Mexico probes agent pursuit of migrant into river*
> Mar 25,
> 
> MEXICO CITY  Mexican authorities have launched investigations into the behavior of an immigration agent who pursued a migrant into the river that marks the border between Mexico and Guatemala, and then *stood by the bank as the woman drifted away*, officials said Friday.
> 
> A video shot by bystanders shows the agent standing on the bank of the Usumacinta river as the female migrant barely stays afloat. She apparently *jumped into the river to avoid capture,* and was eventually rescued by a boater.
> 
> 
> Mexico probes agent pursuit of migrant into river - Yahoo! News
> 
> *What do they think border patrol agents are. Even Mexican agents. Life guards? Baby sitter? Boy scouts?*
> *She jumped into the river by choice.*


 
So some Latinos stood around taking pictures while their fellow countrywoman could have drowned? I guess they thought they could cash in on it.


----------



## FuelRod

I don't think any of them could swim.


----------



## Angelhair

LilOlLady said:


> *Mexico probes agent pursuit of migrant into river*
> Mar 25,
> 
> MEXICO CITY  Mexican authorities have launched investigations into the behavior of an immigration agent who pursued a migrant into the river that marks the border between Mexico and Guatemala, and then *stood by the bank as the woman drifted away*, officials said Friday.
> 
> A video shot by bystanders shows the agent standing on the bank of the Usumacinta river as the female migrant barely stays afloat. She apparently *jumped into the river  to avoid capture,* and was eventually rescued by a boater.
> 
> 
> Mexico probes agent pursuit of migrant into river - Yahoo! News
> 
> *What do they think border patrol agents are. Even Mexican agents.  Life guards? Baby sitter? Boy scouts?
> She jumped into the river by choice.*



_The border agent could have been shot for swimming into mexican territory.  Good for him - better safe than sorry!  She made a bad choice so she will have to think about this next time. _


----------



## Angelhair

Angelhair said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mexico probes agent pursuit of migrant into river*
> Mar 25,
> 
> MEXICO CITY  Mexican authorities have launched investigations into the behavior of an immigration agent who pursued a migrant into the river that marks the border between Mexico and Guatemala, and then *stood by the bank as the woman drifted away*, officials said Friday.
> 
> A video shot by bystanders shows the agent standing on the bank of the Usumacinta river as the female migrant barely stays afloat. She apparently *jumped into the river  to avoid capture,* and was eventually rescued by a boater.
> 
> 
> Mexico probes agent pursuit of migrant into river - Yahoo! News
> 
> *What do they think border patrol agents are. Even Mexican agents.  Life guards? Baby sitter? Boy scouts?
> She jumped into the river by choice.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _The border agent could have been shot for swimming into mexican territory.  Good for him - better safe than sorry!  She made a bad choice so she will have to think about this next time. _
Click to expand...


_OOPS!!! MY bad - should have read the whole article!  No comment....._


----------



## Grace

> The agent is seen in the video, which was posted on the internet, with a machete that he lay on a stone wall, but it is unclear whether he threatened the woman with it. Mexican immigration agents normally do not carry weapons.
> Mexico's National Migration Institute announced that it was investigating the incident.* And the government's National Human Rights Commission said Friday it is also investigating whether her rights were violated.*
> In response to complaints that police and gangs abuse the tens of thousands of migrants who cross the country to reach the United States, *Mexico changed its laws and no longer consider illegal immigration a crime*.



Rights? What fucking rights? SHE HAS NO RIGHTS.

No longer a crime for whom?


----------



## Tank

We could use a border agent like that here in America.


----------



## LostAmerican

That story makes me think of one of my favorite poems:

* Not Waving But Drowning*
*Stevie Smith*​ 
Nobody heard him, the dead man,
But still he lay moaning:
I was much further out than you thought
And not waving but drowning.​ 
Poor chap, he always loved larking
And now he's dead
It must have been too cold for him his heart gave way,
They said.​ 
Oh, no no no,it was too cold always
(Still the dead one lay moaning)
I was much too far out all my life
And not waving but drowning.
​


----------



## LilOlLady

*Sheriff Joe: Job Creator*
By James R. Edwards Jr., 
March 21, 2011 

Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Arizona, whom the Obama administration has targeted with intimidation tactics to quash other local law enforcers' resolve, now has *effectively become a job creator for Americans.* A local TV news report from Phoenix followed up on *what happened after the arrests of illegal alien workers *that the sheriff made at a string of Pei Wei Asian Diners. Read more

Sheriff Joe: Job Creator | Center for Immigration Studies


----------



## LilOlLady

Restaurant dishwasher a so-called "job Americans won't do"? Not at all.

Sheriff Joe: Job Creator | Center for Immigration Studies


Don't forget to thank Sheriff Joe.
http://www.mcso.org/index.php?a=GetModule&mn=Contact_Us


----------



## LilOlLady

Angelhair said:


> Angelhair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mexico probes agent pursuit of migrant into river*
> Mar 25,
> 
> MEXICO CITY &#8211; Mexican authorities have launched investigations into the behavior of an immigration agent who pursued a migrant into the river that marks the border between Mexico and Guatemala, and then *stood by the bank as the woman drifted away*, officials said Friday.
> 
> A video shot by bystanders shows the agent standing on the bank of the Usumacinta river as the female migrant barely stays afloat. She apparently *jumped into the river  to avoid capture,* and was eventually rescued by a boater.
> 
> 
> Mexico probes agent pursuit of migrant into river - Yahoo! News
> 
> *What do they think border patrol agents are. Even Mexican agents.  Life guards? Baby sitter? Boy scouts?
> She jumped into the river by choice.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _The border agent could have been shot for swimming into mexican territory.  Good for him - better safe than sorry!  She made a bad choice so she will have to think about this next time. _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _OOPS!!! MY bad - should have read the whole article!  No comment....._
Click to expand...


My bad too, Angelhair.
I posted it before I fully understood it was about an Mexican agent on Mexican's border. I had to make it work real fast.
Read the replies, We are not alone, Angelhair. LMAO


----------



## waltky

Mebbe dey oughta worry `bout the narco-war comin' across the border...

*Anglos unfazed by Mexico's encroaching drug war*
_27 Mar.`11 - John McWilliams traded a Victorian home in Galveston, Texas, 13 years ago for a bed-and-breakfast in this village of cobblestone streets and later a three-bedroom abode overlooking Lake Chapala, where an estimated 20,000 U.S. and Canadian expatriates &#8212; split roughly equally between the two nationalities &#8212; reside during the winter months._


> He also traded insecurity for tranquility, having suffered three robberies back in Texas. Even with Mexico's organized-crime violence now encroaching on the region, McWilliams and his partner of 40 years, Earl French, maintain, "We feel safer here than there."  McWilliams and French formed part of a foreign relocation wave in which retirees began moving to Mexico, taking advantage of the cheaper prices, idyllic climate and welcoming local culture.  Not to mention opportune real estate investments.
> 
> The financial crisis diminished the relocation trend as aging Baby Boomers were left with lower home prices and smaller retirement nest eggs. Organized-crime activities now threaten to diminish the trend further &#8212; and violence has flared in Chapala (the municipality containing Ajijic) and its environs.  Graves known as narcofosas were discovered last November, while thugs with guns and grenades later attacked the local police chief's home.  Blockades known as narcobloqueos, in which gunmen hijack and torch vehicles, have occurred on the Guadalajara-Chapala highway.
> 
> Such stories appear to have fazed few expatriates, and many compare the violence to random attacks in high-crime cities north of the border.  The U.S. Consulate in Guadalajara, 40 miles north of Chapala, recommends against driving the Guadalajara-Chapala highway at night, one of the "nerve-rattling tidbits" of information that El Paso native and real estate agent Tony Harries says U.S. citizens receive.  Some residents ignore the advisory.  "I worry more about animals on the highway" than violence, says Christy Wiseman, a retired teacher from Reno, adding that Mexican friends express concerns about her driving the road at night.  Concerns from worried relatives are common.
> 
> MORE



See also:

*Mexican drug traffickers spark trend for designer labels*
_Mon, Mar 28, 2011 - NARCOFASHION:The latest fad to hit Mexico is based on the country&#8217;s new generation of gangsters, who have a more urban and elite sense of fashion than their predecessors_


> The cliche of Mexican drug traffickers in gaudy cowboy outfits and flashy jewelry is rapidly losing ground, with younger generations setting discrete new trends in designer labels.  Last year, three suspected drug traffickers, including Edgar Valdez, nicknamed &#8220;La Barbie,&#8221; and Jose Jorge Balderas, nicknamed &#8220;El JJ,&#8221; were presented before television cameras at their arrest &#8212; as is the custom in Mexico &#8212; wearing Ralph Lauren polo shirts.  &#8220;That&#8217;s what they were wearing at the moment of their capture,&#8221; said an officer, who took part in operations to detain the two suspects who made new fashion statements.
> 
> In Mexico City street markets fake green polo shirts sporting the slogan &#8220;London,&#8221; which La Barbie wore, or the blue model worn by El JJ, sell for the equivalent of US$30.  &#8220;It&#8217;s the new &#8216;narcofashion,&#8217; we sell a lot. People ask us for the &#8216;Barbie&#8217; or &#8216;JJ&#8217; model,&#8221; a woman, who only gave her name as Elsa, said as she sold shirts out of the back of a car. &#8220;I think that the sales have an unhealthy side, but I have to respond to demand. That&#8217;s how I make my living.&#8221;  Nearby, in the Ralph Lauren section of a department store, where a polo shirt costs US$150, both models were also in high demand, sales assistants said.  Jesus Manuel, a 21-year-old cookery student, shrugged his shoulders when asked about his &#8220;JJ&#8221; polo shirt.  &#8220;I&#8217;m not a drug trafficker. I like the polo shirt, that&#8217;s all,&#8221; he said.
> 
> Meanwhile, on the Internet site Mercado Libre, or Free Market, about a hundred users offer to sell the models.  About 20 of the adverts include photos of the two detainees.  &#8220;We&#8217;ve excluded a lot of adverts which alluded to what they call &#8216;narcofashion.&#8217; We&#8217;re constantly checking the site,&#8221; site director Francisco Ceballos said.  However, he said millions of products were sold on the site and eliminating adverts that violate its rules takes time.
> 
> MORE


----------



## waltky

Birthing tour scam busted...

*Arriving as Pregnant Tourists, Leaving With American Babies*
_March 28, 2011  The building inspectors and police officers walked into the small row of connected town houses here knowing something was amiss. Neighbors had complained about noise and a lot of pregnant women coming and going. And when they went into a kitchen they saw a row of clear bassinets holding several infants, with a woman acting as a nurse hovering over them._


> For months, officials say, the house was home to maternity tourists, in this case, women from China who had paid tens of thousands of dollars to deliver their babies in the United States, making the infants automatic American citizens. Officials shut down the home, sending the 10 mothers who had been living there with their babies to nearby motels.  These were not women living in squalor  it was a well taken care of place and clean, but there were a lot of women and babies, said Clayton Anderson, a city inspector who shut down the house on March 9. I have never seen anything like this before. We really couldnt determine the exact number of people living there.
> 
> For the last year, the debate over birthright citizenship has raged across the country, with some political leaders calling for an end to the 14th Amendment, which gives automatic citizenship to any baby born in the United States. Much of the debate has focused on immigrants entering illegally from poor countries in Latin America. But in this case the women were not only relatively wealthy, but also here legally on tourist visas. Most of them, officials say, have already returned to China with their American babies.  Immigration experts say it is impossible to know precisely how widespread maternity tourism is. Businesses in China, Mexico and South Korea advertise packages that arrange for doctors, insurance and postpartum care. And the Marmara, a Turkish-owned hotel on the Upper East Side in New York City, has advertised monthlong baby stays that come with a stroller.
> 
> For the most part, though, the practice has involved individuals. The discovery of the large-scale facility here in the San Gabriel foothills raises questions about whether it was a rare phenomenon or an indication that maternity tourism is entering a new, more institutionalized phase with more hospital-like facilities operating quietly around the country.  The San Gabriel town houses are nestled in a small street lined with modest houses, small apartment buildings and palm trees. A construction crew was at work late last week, closing up walls that had been knocked down between units, in violation of the housing code.
> 
> More http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/29/us/29babies.html?_r=1


----------



## Angelhair

_We stop Qadaffi from murdering HIS people but we allow the narcos to murder 30,000 people (and counting) in Mexico - our 'great' neighbor just across the border????  And we keep QUIET!!!  What is wrong with this picture???  AM I WRONG????_


----------



## LilOlLady

*What's Wrong With Illegal Immigration?*

*The Costs of Illegal Immigration* 
By draining public funds, creating unfair competition for jobs with Americas least prepared workers and thereby lowering wages and working conditions, and by imposing unwanted strains on services designed to provide assistance to Americans, illegal immigration causes harm to Americans and legal residents.

*
Illegal Aliens' Numbers are Large and Growing

Illegal Immigration Undermines Legal Immigration. 

Illegal immigration harms the American workforce

Illegal Immigration is a Burden on the Taxpayer

The Number of Deportations is Low

Recent Improvements Have Not Solved the Problem

Some Aspects of INS Enforcement are Getting Worse

Amnesty is Not the Answer**The answer is to deter further illegal immigration and to tackle the removal of the current illegal alien population by:* 


FAIR: What's Wrong With Illegal Immigration?


----------



## LilOlLady

*  OPERATION W*****K IN ACTION*

The effort began in California and Arizona, and coordinated *1075 Border Patrol agents*, along with *state and local police agencies*, to mount an aggressive crackdown. Tactics employed included going as far as s*ystematic police sweeps of Mexican-American neighborhoods*, and *using racial profiling on random stops *and* ID checks of "Mexican-looking" people *in a region with many Native Americans and native Hispanics. In some cases, illegal *aliens were deported along with their American-born children.*

Some *750 agents targeted agricultural areas *with a goal of 1,000 apprehensions per day. By the end of July, over *50,000 illegal aliens were caught in the two states*. An estimated *488,000 illegal aliens are believed to have left voluntarily*, for fear of being apprehended. By September, *80,000 had been taken into custody in Texas*, and the INS estimated that *500,000 to 700,000 had left Texas of their own accord*. To discourage illicit re-entry, *buses and trains took many deportees deep within Mexican territory before releasing them*.

Tens of thousands more were *deported by two chartered ships*: the Emancipation and the Mercurio. The ships ferried them from Port Isabel, Texas, to Veracruz, Mexico, more than 500 mi (800 km) to the south. Some were taken as far as 1000 mi (1600 km). Deportation by sea was ended after seven deportees jumped overboard from the Mercurio and drowned, provoking a mutiny that led to a public outcry in Mexico.

Operation Wetback - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


*Who said we cannot round them up, put them on busses, train, planes and ships and deport them and release 7.5 million jobs for unemployed Americans..[/B]

                               _________________________________

Our constitution protects aliens, drunks and U.S. Senators. Will Rogers*


----------



## LostAmerican

LilOlLady said:


> * OPERATION W*****K IN ACTION*
> 
> The effort began in California and Arizona, and coordinated *1075 Border Patrol agents*, along with *state and local police agencies*, to mount an aggressive crackdown. Tactics employed included going as far as s*ystematic police sweeps of Mexican-American neighborhoods*, and *using racial profiling on random stops *and* ID checks of "Mexican-looking" people *in a region with many Native Americans and native Hispanics. In some cases, illegal *aliens were deported along with their American-born children.*
> 
> Some *750 agents targeted agricultural areas *with a goal of 1,000 apprehensions per day. By the end of July, over *50,000 illegal aliens were caught in the two states*. An estimated *488,000 illegal aliens are believed to have left voluntarily*, for fear of being apprehended. By September, *80,000 had been taken into custody in Texas*, and the INS estimated that *500,000 to 700,000 had left Texas of their own accord*. To discourage illicit re-entry, *buses and trains took many deportees deep within Mexican territory before releasing them*.
> 
> Tens of thousands more were *deported by two chartered ships*: the Emancipation and the Mercurio. The ships ferried them from Port Isabel, Texas, to Veracruz, Mexico, more than 500 mi (800 km) to the south. Some were taken as far as 1000 mi (1600 km). Deportation by sea was ended after seven deportees jumped overboard from the Mercurio and drowned, provoking a mutiny that led to a public outcry in Mexico.
> 
> Operation Wetback - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> *Who said we cannot round them up, put them on busses, train, planes and ships and deport them and release 7.5 million jobs for unemployed Americans..[/B]*
> 
> *_________________________________*
> 
> *Our constitution protects aliens, drunks and U.S. Senators. Will Rogers*


*

The good old days when US Presidents would protect the lives of Americans first. 

When did it all go wrong and the American became the bad guy in his own country?*


----------



## Angelhair

_The bleeding heart liberals say it, that's who._


----------



## LilOlLady

*DHS confirms cheaper to deport every illegal alien than allowing them to stay*
December 8th, 2010 . 
Dave Gibson 
DHS confirms cheaper to deport every illegal alien than allowing them to stay - National Immigration reform | Examiner.com


----------



## infman4x

illegal immigration is just that illegal breaking the law by condoning this you reward the illegals and punish the tax payers the us cannot support two countries thats what is going on right now and the result is financially crippling the us and the president condones this mainly for himself and hisadministration for votes along with growing big gov. waste.


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## LilOlLady

infman4x said:


> illegal immigration is just that illegal breaking the law by condoning this you reward the illegals and punish the tax payers the us cannot support two countries thats what is going on right now and the result is financially crippling the us and the president condones this mainly for himself and hisadministration for votes along with growing big gov. waste.



What homeland security is doing about illegal immigration and drug smuggling is just a band aid. If they were serious they would stop both and they have the capability. We are involved in two wars and a "mission" and we ran al qaeda out of iraq and out of afghanistan so don't tell me the border is "more" secure than ever and Obama is doing more than any other president in deportation,etc. That is just not enough and not the best we can do. We can send a man to the moon and beyond we sure as hell can secure the border. So secure an ant would not be able to get across. If they really wanted to. some one need to light a fire under Obama's ass and get him moving on this invasion.


----------



## LilOlLady

*SF Student Who Was Scheduled For Deportation Gets Six-Month Reprieve*

 San Francisco teen who was scheduled to be deported later this month received an Epiphany gift Thursday: a six-month reprieve that will *give her lawyers time to build a case for her to stay in the country legally.*
SF Student Who Was Scheduled For Deportation Gets Six-Month Reprieve: News: SFAppeal


Dream Act failed but ilegal aliens students are still allowed to remain here.
That means her family member stay also. Amnesty thorough the back door. If you can stay under the radar for so many years, you are home free.


----------



## Finnguy

Well at least they are given a chance to prove their citizenship. I hate for this to happen to my great-grandparents, I'd still be living in Europe, but that would be a good thing.


----------



## Cecilie1200

LilOlLady said:


> *SF Student Who Was Scheduled For Deportation Gets Six-Month Reprieve*
> 
> San Francisco teen who was scheduled to be deported later this month received an Epiphany gift Thursday: a six-month reprieve that will *give her lawyers time to build a case for her to stay in the country legally.*
> SF Student Who Was Scheduled For Deportation Gets Six-Month Reprieve: News: SFAppeal
> 
> 
> Dream Act failed but ilegal aliens students are still allowed to remain here.
> That means her family member stay also. Amnesty thorough the back door. If you can stay under the radar for so many years, you are home free.



What a load of horseshit they were shoveling in that story.  How does a 20-year-old college student "not know" his legal status?  Really?  You're 20 years old, and you've never laid eyes on your birth certificate?  If you know you weren't born in THIS country, and you know you don't have a Green Card, dontcha think it might occur to you that you're illegal?  If he's really that dumb, he's got no business in college, anyway.

As for the primary family in the story, I'm curious as to what possible basis they could think they have to stay.  I don't recall Peru being a hotbed of political murders, so I don't see asylum being a question.


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## LilOlLady

*American Needs Illegal Immigrants[/B
 July 26, 2006
by kathsua

Those who are overly upset by the fact that millions of illegal immigrants are in the country need to consider two facts. Immigrants have traditionally played an important role in the U.S. economy and will be even more important in the future.  

Forcing workers who are in the country illegally to leave could create an economic disaster. It would be the equivalent of killing millions of workers. 

American Needs Illegal Immigrants

20 million illegal aliens in the country and they have done nothing to contribute to the economy and have not save social security. So why don't we just deport them.*


----------



## LilOlLady

DREAM Act is dead. *U.S. needs immigration for economic stimulus*
by Robert Sam Siegel
January 4, 2011

The DREAM Act died in 2010 and that is good.  But if the Republicans want to be the party of a dynamic U.S. economy then they had better get moving on an immigration fix that will *supply the U.S. with a wave of young people for our future workforce*.  The best source of that *future workforce *is the countries south of the U.S. border.

DREAM Act is dead. U.S. needs immigration for economic stimulus | Mind Your Own Damn Business Politics

*WTF?*


----------



## LilOlLady

*We Need Illegal Immigrants As Much As They Need Us*
Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:29 PM EDT
Newsvine - We Need Illegal Immigrants As Much As They Need Us


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## LilOlLady

*WHAT IF 20 MILLION ILLEGAL ALIENS VACATED AMERICA?*

By Frosty Wooldridge
October 29, *2007 *
NewsWithViews.com

*If 20 million illegal aliens returned "home" 

Drain on America's economy; taxpayers harmed, employers get rich *
Frosty Wooldridge -- What if 20 Million Illegal Aliens Vacated America?

*The economy would recover because jobs will be freeed for 14 million unemployed Americans. Money earned here would be spent here, going back into our economy instead of Mexico. The money saved in education, healhtcare, welfare and law enforcement would balance the budget and pay down the deficit*.


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## LilOlLady

*Illegal Immigration Is Not a Civil Right*

By Ian de Silva
Human Events
Posted Apr 21, 2006

Liberalism's delusions have reached their most ridiculous extreme in the protests by illegal aliens. It was ridiculous enough that American liberals thought they were entitled to things that other Americans had worked for and earned, but now America is being told that illegal aliens -- people who have no right to be here at all -- should have the rights of citizens.

Illegal aliens and their supporters claim this is a civil rights issue. Balderdash. It is a desperate -- and despicable -- attempt to put a moral veneer on morally bankrupt protests. If illegal aliens have a moral claim to civil rights, then a band of burglars marching down the street protesting tough burglary laws also deserve moral respect.
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/Articles/Illegal Immigration Is Not a Civil Right.html


----------



## High_Gravity

I have to agree 100%. It is not a civil right.


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## LilOlLady

_*We really don't have the law on our side, do we?
Why have a law if it is not worth the time it takes to write it?*_


*Do Illegal Aliens Have Constitutional Rights?
Courts Have Ruled They Do*
By Robert Longley, About.com Guide
Do not let the fact that the term "illegal aliens" does not appear in the U.S. Constitution lead you to believe that its rights and freedoms do not apply to them. The courts have held otherwise.

Often described as a "living document," the Constitution has repeatedly been interpreted by the *U.S. Supreme Court, federal appeals courts and Congress *in order to address the ever-changing needs and demands of the people. While many argue that "We the People of the United States," refers only to legal citizens, the Supreme Court has consistently disagreed.

Illegal Aliens and Constitutional Rights &#8211; Do Illegal Aliens Have Constitutional Rights?

*WTF?*


----------



## LilOlLady

*In Maryland, black legislators favor immigrants over black Americans*
Posted by acorcoran on April 7, 2011

That is the contention of writer and Maryland conservative activist Ron Miller in his opinion piece yesterday on the eve of an important vote in the Maryland legislature.  Miller, the author of &#8216;Sellout: Musings from Uncle Tom&#8217;s Porch&#8216;, is commenting on the Maryland legislature&#8217;s  controversial vote, likely to come today, on a bill to give in-state college tuition rates to illegal aliens.

From Southern Maryland Online, entitled, &#8216;Black on Black crime in the General Assembly&#8216;:

Before I go down this path, I want to be crystal clear that House Bill 470, which went to the floor of the House of Delegates Tuesday, and proposes to offer in-state tuition to the children of illegal aliens, will adversely affect all Marylanders.

This bill is fiscally irresponsible given our state budget crisis, and it is a violation of the rule of law. It is an affront to all law-abiding Marylanders and the tens of thousands of legal immigrants who followed the rules to come here.

It will contribute further to making Maryland a sanctuary for illegal aliens, who already cost our state $1.4 billion a year in benefits and services for which they didn&#8217;t pay and for which they&#8217;re not eligible. They will come here in droves from neighboring states like Virginia, which are much less hospitable to them.

That said, I&#8217;ve watched with amazement as the black delegation in the Maryland General Assembly applies the thumbscrews to their own constituents in the name of party loyalty. By showing favor to illegal aliens, these legislators are telling black people, who suffer from an 11.2 percent unemployment rate in our state, compared to 6.2 percent for whites and 8.8 percent for Hispanics, that they don&#8217;t matter.

Let me break it down for you. Young blacks make up the lion&#8217;s share of the black unemployed in Maryland, and in the nation as a whole. The latest figures show that* 45.5 percent of black teens in America are unemployed*. Their biggest competition for the low-wage, low-skill jobs for which they qualify? Illegal aliens&#8230;.

Mr. Miller goes on to use information from the Migration Policy Institute (MPI) in which the Institute admits American citizen blacks are disproportionately hurt by immigrant labor.   Read on.

But, note that in the quote *Mr. Miller used from MPI they could not resist a back-handed slap at American black workers:*&#8230;.employers actually prefer the immigrants, and believe that they have a stronger work ethic and lower rates of turnover out of low-wage jobs.

Just a reminder to readers that although earlier this year the Migration Policy Institute hosted a meeting where a speaker admitted black workers were hurt by immigrant labor, here, they seem to have no qualms about being pro-migration.  Indeed that meeting prompted me to look more deeply into the agenda of the Migration Policy Institute and this is what I found&#8212;far Left funding from the likes of George Soros and his network.  They might put on the patina of being a &#8220;nonpartisan and independent&#8221; policy outfit but they definitely have an open borders agenda.

*Miller ends his good piece with this comment:*
&#8220;Party trumps race.&#8221; I hope all you *unemployed young blacks in Maryland *remember that as she [State Senator Lisa Gladden] and her colleagues are *throwing you under a bus loaded with illegal aliens, and then backing over you*.
In Maryland, black legislators favor immigrants over black Americans « Refugee Resettlement Watch

http://refugeeresettlementwatch.wor...lators-favor-immigrants-over-black-americans/


----------



## High_Gravity

So basically our leadership, both black and white, favor the illegals over us.


----------



## LilOlLady

*State budget cuts to be felt by illegal immigrants*

As the state Legislature looks for ways to close a $5 billion budget shortfall, lawmakers are eyeing millions in cuts that could reduce or eliminate services used by illegal immigrants. Washington is projected to spend more than $300 million over the next two years on services illegal immigrants can tap, primarily welfare and health care for children, the seriously ill and pregnant women.

By Andrew Garber

Seattle Times Olympia bureau
Local News | State budget cuts to be felt by illegal immigrants | Seattle Times Newspaper






*Illegal immigrants and state programs*

*Washington state* estimates it will spend more than $300 million over the next two years on services illegal immigrants can tap, not counting K-12 education. A breakdown: 

$125 million on* health care for 7,400 pregnant women *ineligible for Medicaid because they can't prove they are here legally. This program can't be changed, because of federal restrictions.

$73 million on *welfare for children*. The federal government requires proof that the children are here legally, but not their parents. This program also can't be changed.

$59 million for *medical and dental coverage *for 25,000 children from low-income families ineligible for Medicaid because they can't prove they are here legally.

$24 million for *kidney dialysis and cancer treatment *for 1,300 low-income people ineligible for Medicaid because they can't prove they are here legally.

$15 million for in-state tuition subsidies for students who have lived in Washington for at least three years. The state does not check legal status.

$5.6 million in *nursing-home care *for low-income undocumented residents.

Sources: State Legislature, Department of Social and Health Services

OLYMPIA  As the Legislature looks for ways to close a $5 billion budget shortfall, lawmakers are examining millions in cuts that could* reduce or eliminate services used by illegal immigrants.*
Lawmakers already have passed a law that effectively limits the state Basic Health Plan for the *working poor to legal residents*.

Local News | State budget cuts to be felt by illegal immigrants | Seattle Times Newspaper


----------



## LilOlLady

*67% Say Illegal Aliens Are Major Strain on U.S. Budget*
March 4th, 2010

Eighty-three percent (83%) of Republicans and 73% of voters not affiliated with either major party say illegal immigrants are a budget strain. Just 48% of Democrats agree, and nearly as many (40%) disagree. Similarly, 77% of Republicans and 71% of unaffiliated voters see the availability of government money and services as drawing illegal immigrants to America. But only 50% of Democrats share that view. The differences between the Political Class and Mainstream voters are even sharper. 

67% Say Illegal Aliens Are Major Strain on U.S. Budget // United for A Sovereign America (USA)


----------



## LilOlLady

*Illegal Immigration Bankrupting America*
By Frosty Wooldridge
9-13-7
The San Diego report exposed shocking costs to taxpayers in one county. With California housing three to four million illegals, a 2005 report showed migrants cost state taxpayers $10.2 billion annually. That's money that could have reduced their $38 billion state debt! 
In my state of Colorado, we suffer 500,000 illegals at a cost of $1 billion annually. (Source: <http://www.cairco.org>CAIR - Colorado Alliance for Immigration Reform). In excess of $654 million pays for migrant children's education, $38.4 million for medical costs and $20 million for incarceration of convicted illegal felons. Other costs cover uninsured illegals in accidents, school breakfast and lunch programs as well as housing assistance. 
Under the radar, most Americans don't realize half of illegal aliens work off the books and pay no taxes. The 2005 Bear Stearns Report showed a loss of $301 billion in uncollected IRS income taxes annually. Additionally, migrants yearly send $60 billion in cash remittances back to home countries-thus bleeding the U.S. treasury. "Anchor babies" create another drain on taxpayers' earnings. The average delivery costs $5,000 to $7,000 depending on location. The real kicker occurs when the child gains free access of education K-12 and free breakfast and lunch program for 13 years of schooling. The costs of one year of school average $7,000.00 and the lunch programs, born by American taxpayers, soar into the billions of dollars. 
How many illegal children attend U.S. schools? Estimates top 1.5-2.5 million. Factor in birth costs, medical costs for birth defect children, special needs, schooling and lunch programs. Do the math! 


Wooldridge - Illegal Immigration Bankrupting America


----------



## Mad Scientist

Our elected leaders will be intimidated by and then cave to the La Raza special interests. I have no faith in them.

Our elected leaders seem to think that the illegal alien hordes will vote for the gringo if given enough goodies a taxpayer expense and then citizenship. They have no idea that when the illegals are the majority they will all vote "Raza".


----------



## chanel

> The illegal population residing in New Jersey is estimated at 6.2 percent (New Jersey is not even close to a border state). They are costing the New Jersey taxpayers nearly $2.1 billion per year for education, medical care and incarceration. This estimate is derived from analysis of public expenditures on just three of several areas of expenditures for about 372,000 illegal alien residents. *That annual tax burden amounts to about $800 per New Jersey household* headed by a native-born resident. Even if sales, income and property taxes that may be collected from illegal immigrants -- estimated at $488 million -- are subtracted from the fiscal outlays, the net costs to New Jersey's taxpayers still amount to nearly $1.6 billion per year.



Bill would help attack illegal immigration | The Daily Journal | thedailyjournal.com

Yet, taxpayer dollars are being used to promote and EXPAND services to these freeloaders:



> The Rutgers Immigration Infrastructure Map, a work in progress since last June, will identify and describe each of the *650-plus social-service agencies in New Jersey that support immigrants*, and will map them on a website.
> 
> By publicizing the agencies work, project organizers hope to help immigrants adapt to their new life, and to determine where more services are needed



Rutgers plans to launch N.J. 'immigration infrastructure map' online | NJ.com


Um.  Calling Chris Christie....


----------



## LostAmerican

*WHAT WOULD ROBERT E. LEE DO?*


----------



## LilOlLady

*Illegal Immigration a $113 Billion a Year Drain on U.S. Taxpayers *

FAIR Releases First-of-its-Kind Comprehensive Study of Federal, State and Local Costs of Illegal Immigration


(Washington, D.C July 6, 2010) A new study released today by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) estimates that *illegal immigration now costs federal and local taxpayers $113 billion a year*. The report, The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on U.S. Taxpayers, is the most comprehensive analysis of how much the *estimated 13 million illegal aliens and their U.S.-born children cost federal, state and local governments*. 

The cost estimates are based on an extensive analysis of federal, state and local spending data. The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on U.S. Taxpayers examines dozens of government programs that are available to illegal aliens and their U.S.-born children, both legally and fraudulently. The report provides detailed analysis of the impact of illegal immigration on education, health care, law enforcement and justice, public assistance, and other government programs. 

The report also *accounts for taxes paid by illegal aliens about $13 billion a year*, resulting in a* net cost to taxpayers of about $100 billion.* However, the study notes that government at all levels would likely have realized significantly greater revenues if jobs held by illegal aliens had been filled by legal U.S. residents instead. 

Federal spending on illegal aliens amounts to $29 billion, finds Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on U.S. Taxpayers. The lions share of the costs of illegal immigration is borne by state and local taxpayers an estimated $84.2 billion. In 18 states, expenditures on illegal aliens exceeded the size of those states budget deficits in FY 2009. 

Among the key findings of The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on U.S. Taxpayers:
The $113 billion in outlays for services and benefits to illegal aliens and their families represents an average cost to native-headed households of $1,117 a year. Because the burdens of illegal immigration are not evenly distributed, the costs are much higher in states with large illegal alien populations. 
Education for the children of illegal aliens represents the single largest public expenditure at an annual cost of $52 billion. Nearly all of that cost is absorbed by state and local governments. 
The federal government *recoups about one-third *of its share of the costs of illegal immigration in the form of taxes collected. States, which bear a much greater share of the costs, recoup a mere 5 percent of their expenditures from taxes paid by illegal aliens. 
Granting amnesty to illegal aliens, as President Obama and others propose, would not significantly increase tax revenues generated by current illegal aliens. However, over time, amnesty would dramatically increase public costs as newly-legalized aliens become eligible for all means-tested government programs. 

Arizonas annual cost of illegal immigration is $2.5 billion. 
*The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on U.S. Taxpayers provides a definitive response to the question of whether illegal aliens are a net benefit or a net drain on government coffers,* stated Dan Stein president of FAIR. The report examines virtually every federal, state and local government program to determine the impact of illegal immigration on the bottom line. That bottom line* $113 billion a year, and growing *makes our nations failure to control illegal immigration one of the largest preventable burdens borne by American taxpayers. 

*If political leaders in Washington and state capitals want to understand why the American public is demanding enforcement of our immigration laws, The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on U.S. Taxpayers, provides 113 billion good reasons, *Stein concluded. 

Read the report. 
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_ ... 7/23/liddy


*Deporting illegal aliens alone would balance the budget and leave a sizable surplus.*


----------



## LilOlLady

*Anchor Babies are not U.S. citizens they are citizens of Mexico according to the Mexican Constitution *
January 2011
Frosty Wooldridge 


"That is where this story should begin and that is where it should end! The *Mexican Constitution, Chapter II, Article 30, paragraph II,* states that you are a Mexican by birth if born on foreign territory, sons or daughters of Mexican parents born in national territory. *There you have it! Anchor Babies are not U.S. citizens! They are citizens of Mexican according to the Mexican Constitution.*

"April 4, 1997, President Sedillo of Mexico stated that *"We will not tolerate foreign forces dictating and enacting laws on Mexicans*. Our contention is that we are not enacting or dictating any laws on the Mexican illegal alien children born by illegal alien females in the US territory. Further, he states that *"he was going to use all diplomatic and legal forces at his disposal to.protect Mexicans living in the Uniited States."*
Anchor Babies are not U.S. citizens they are citizens of Mexico according to the Mexican Constitution | Frosty Wooldridge


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## LilOlLady

*The Concept of Racial Profiling *
Rick Garlikov

There is ample evidence that racial profiling (also sometimes called *"racially biased policing"), *as it is described in the ensuing ACLU passages, exists.  And it is clearly an evil practice.  *However, race, ethnicity, and gender are also characteristics that are merely descriptive in nature, and since police depend on descriptions to apprehend criminals or those planning crimes, the question arises whether and when race, ethnicity, or gender alone might be appropriate and justified characteristics on which police ought to act.  *This paper is intended to analyze what unjustified racial profiling or racially biased policing is, and in particular how it might be distinguished from any possible *justifiable practice of having sufficient description of a suspect, based on race, ethnicity, or gender alone, in order to implement proper police procedures (e.g., suspicion, surveillance, approach, questioning, etc.)   *

The Concept of Racial Profiling

*If a tall thin black man on a bike grabs your purse, wouldn't profiling the race of this man help to apprehend him? Looking for a black man would help to describe him.
If  big fat white man grabs your purse, it would help in apprehending him to describe him as being white.

About 90% of ilegal aliens are Hispanic and being Hispanic who cannot speak English and no identification is reasonable suspicion to arrest and detain and turn over to ICE of further investigation. If you are Hispanic and have drivers license and identification and a green card you should not be afraid of being racial profiled.

My father who was native american were always mistaken as Hispanic and had to show his identification and it took all of one minute and he was on his way. Happen in the 50s when we were on the bus and ICE raided to bus. He had nothing to hide and had no problem showing his identification that proved his citizenship. He did not have to carry a briefcase of documents.

After 9-11 I went into SS office and was asked to empty my purse, I did an had to take a boyscout knife back to my car. Pissed me off  because the guard did not ask white looking people to emply their purse. I understand it and was pissed but ok. I was not hurt.*

*Racial is never the sole reason for making arrest of illegal aliens, There has to be other reasons also. Notice how the ACLU describe racial profiling in arresting illegals;*
Notice the ACLU says that: "*Racial profiling*" occurs when the police target someone for investigation on the basis of that person's *race, national origin, or ethnicity*.  And the PERF policy is very similar when it says: Race/ethnicity can never be used as the *sole basis *for *probable cause *or *reasonable suspicion*.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Immigration law doesn't mean just what you want it to mean*



He points to a U.S. Supreme Court ruling from 1975 known as *United States v. Brignoni-Ponce*. In it, justices decided that *"Mexican appearance" *was a *"relevant factor"* during immigration stops.


In their essay for the Post, Chin and Johnson wrote, "Supporters and opponents of SB 1070 *assume that racial profiling is unconstitutional*, largely because many *Americans believe that it ought to be*. In fact, the *U.S. Supreme Court has approved the racial profiling permitted *- indeed encouraged - by SB 1070."

Read more;
Immigration law doesn't mean just what you want it to mean


----------



## LilOlLady

*United States v. Brignoni-Ponce*

United States v. Brignoni-Ponce, 422 U.S. 873 (1975), was a decision by the United States Supreme Court, which held that the Fourth Amendment to the *United States Constitution does allow a roving patrol of the United States Border Patrol to stop a vehicle near the United States&#8211;Mexico border and question its occupants about their citizenship and immigration status, when suspicion that the occupants appear to be of Mexican ancestry, combined with other articulable facts*. Except at the border and its functional equivalents, patrolling officers may stop vehicles only if they are *aware of specific articulable facts*, together with *rational inferences therefrom, reasonably warranting suspicion *that the vehicles contain aliens who may be illegally in the country.

United States v. Brignoni-Ponce - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


*SB1070 should stand.*


----------



## LilOlLady

*If border patrols don't have access to public land on the border, they cannot patrol the bordre and cannot secure the border.*


GOP: *Border Patrol Should Control Federal Lands*
By Matthew Daly, Associated Press, 04-14-10
WASHINGTON  A group of House Republicans say Border Patrol agents should be granted direct control over U.S. borders, even on federal lands managed by other agencies.

Lawmakers introduced a bill Wednesday to transfer operational control of lands along the federal border to the Department of Homeland Security, instead of the Interior Department or Forest Service. The land agencies would still manage national parks, forests and other public lands, but *would not have authority to block Border Patrol agents *from acting as they see fit to secure border areas.

GOP: Border Patrol Should Control Federal Lands | Flathead Beacon


----------



## LilOlLady

Testimony of Deputy Chief Ronald Vitiello, U.S. Customs and Border Protection, before the U.S. House Committee on Natural Resources, Subcommittee on National Parks, Forests, and Public Lands, and the U.S. House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, Subcommittee on National Security, Homeland Defense, and Foreign Operations, "Border: Are Environmental Laws and *Regulations Impeding Security and Harming the Environment?"*
Release Date: April 15, 2011






DHS: Testimony of Deputy Chief Ronald Vitiello, U.S. Customs and Border Protection, before the U.S. House Committee on Natural Resources, Subcommittee on National Parks, Forests, and Public Lands, and the U.S. House Committee on Oversight and Governm


----------



## LilOlLady

SMITH: *Give immigration enforcement a try*
April 13, 2011

When laws are administered, jobs open for unemployed Americans.


Critics of immigration enforcement often claim *our immigration system is broken *and that *enforcement of immigration laws will not solve this problem*. But this argument is flawed because *we have never tried to fully enforce our immigration laws*. Critics embrace the *legalization *of millions of illegal immigrants, a so-called solution that has been *tried in the past and failed.*
SMITH: Give immigration enforcement a try - Washington Times


----------



## Intense

Ray Stevens - Come to the USA 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgOHOHKBEqE&feature=related]YouTube - Ray Stevens - Come to the USA[/ame]


----------



## socin

With current birthrate america needs more people from foreign countries


----------



## LostAmerican

socin said:


> With current birthrate america needs more people from foreign countries


 
You do understand that most of the world has to live on less than 2 dollars a day. Why should we force more people into poverty?


----------



## Gunny

LilOlLady said:


> ARIZ BOYCOTTS HURT HISPANICS
> 
> 
> Arizona boycotts will hurt Hispanics who make up the large part of the hospitality industry. A no win situation for all. But Arizona will recover and SB107 is not going away.
> 
> Arizona illegal aliens who are protesting will protest them selves out of jobs and out of the state saving Arizona billions in education, healthcare, law enforcement and welfare.
> 
> If illegal aliens are force to leave, either by SB1070 or boycotts, they will go to other state and they will have to provide jobs, healthcare, education, law enforcement and welfare. Costing those states.
> 
> If SB1070 is unconstitutional so is the Federal Immigration and Nationality Act that gives Arizona state and local officers the right to do exactly what SB1070 allows them to do. Federal Immigration and Nationality Act goes even farther to allow racial profiling. Hispanic appearance coupled with reasonable suspicion. I guess that does not make a difference since ICE do not process those illegal aliens Arizona turn over the them. They are released if there is no criminal act other than illegal entry.



Flat out BS spin.  What part of ILLEGAL in "illegal immigrant" don't you get?  They criminals by their very existence on our soil, and they are stealing from US.  

Get a clue.


----------



## LilOlLady

Gunny said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> ARIZ BOYCOTTS HURT HISPANICS
> 
> 
> Arizona boycotts will hurt Hispanics who make up the large part of the hospitality industry. A no win situation for all. But Arizona will recover and SB107 is not going away.
> 
> Arizona illegal aliens who are protesting will protest them selves out of jobs and out of the state saving Arizona billions in education, healthcare, law enforcement and welfare.
> 
> If illegal aliens are force to leave, either by SB1070 or boycotts, they will go to other state and they will have to provide jobs, healthcare, education, law enforcement and welfare. Costing those states.
> 
> If SB1070 is unconstitutional so is the Federal Immigration and Nationality Act that gives Arizona state and local officers the right to do exactly what SB1070 allows them to do. Federal Immigration and Nationality Act goes even farther to allow racial profiling. Hispanic appearance coupled with reasonable suspicion. I guess that does not make a difference since ICE do not process those illegal aliens Arizona turn over the them. They are released if there is no criminal act other than illegal entry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flat out BS spin.  What part of ILLEGAL in "illegal immigrant" don't you get?  They criminals by their very existence on our soil, and they are stealing from US.
> 
> Get a clue.
Click to expand...


At least read the post before you reply.


----------



## LilOlLady

LostAmerican said:


> socin said:
> 
> 
> 
> With current birthrate america needs more people from foreign countries
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do understand that most of the world has to live on less than 2 dollars a day. Why should we* force *more people into poverty?
Click to expand...



So to solve the birth rate here we need to import more poverty? We are running out of natural resources like water and our farmlands are being poluted and cannot produce. how do you suggest we take care of more especially poor people?
We cannot feed the world. Those countries need to take responsiblity for their own. 
Mexico in particular has the resources to take care of it's people and the people need to rise up and fight instead of tucking tails and running away. cowards.


----------



## LilOlLady

socin said:


> With current birthrate america *needs more people *from foreign countries



Why the hell do we need more people when we cannot provide for those we have? Homelessness and hunger do you not understand. Have you been to a food bann distribution center, welfare office and seen the homeless on the streets. Like tent city here is reno?
Do you know the problems that come with over population? WE have 14 million unemployed, 40 without healthcare. And we need more people?


----------



## LilOlLady

Gunny said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> ARIZ BOYCOTTS HURT HISPANICS
> 
> 
> Arizona boycotts will hurt Hispanics who make up the *large part of the hospitality industry.* A no win situation for all. But Arizona will recover and SB107 is not going away.
> 
> Arizona illegal aliens who are protesting will *protest them selves out of jobs *and out of the state saving Arizona billions in education, healthcare, law enforcement and welfare.
> 
> If illegal aliens are force to leave, either by SB1070 or boycotts, they will go to other state and they will have to provide jobs, healthcare, education, law enforcement and welfare. Costing those states.
> 
> If SB1070 is unconstitutional so is the Federal Immigration and Nationality Act that gives Arizona state and local officers the right to do exactly what SB1070 allows them to do. Federal Immigration and Nationality Act goes even farther to allow racial profiling. Hispanic appearance coupled with reasonable suspicion. I guess that does not make a difference since ICE do not process those illegal aliens Arizona turn over the them. They are released if there is no criminal act other than illegal entry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flat out BS spin.  What part of ILLEGAL in "illegal immigrant" don't you get?  They criminals by their very existence on our soil, and they are stealing from US.
> 
> Get a clue.
Click to expand...


You do realize that when Sheriff Joe make sweeps of workplaces like resturants, etc that americans line up for those jobs that are left vacant. Dish washer, etc?


----------



## LilOlLady

*MARICOPA COUNTY SHERIFFS DEPUTIES RAID EAST VALLEY BUSINESS; 6 SUSPECTED ILLEGAL ALIENS ARRESTED FOR USING FALSE IDENTIFICATION *

 04/14/2011
 *Crackdown continues regardless of SB1070 ruling, Arpaio says*.

MARICOPA COUNTY, AZ - Maricopa County Sheriffs deputies served search warrants and raided the Monte Carlo Cleaners, a dry cleaning business located in Mesa at 425 N. Stapley Drive. Six suspected illegal aliens arrested on site for *using false identification*. Investigators are *heading to an additional 5 residence for suspects *who failed to show for work this morning, bringing the total of potential arrest to 11.



MARICOPA COUNTY SHERIFF



*
Who said we cannot enforce our immigration laws and solve the illegal immigration problem unless with Immigration Reform?
I wonder how we can get clones of Sheriff Joe.:*confused:


----------



## LilOlLady

*Rancher On Border Testifies Before Congress  The Real Shocking Story*
Thanks to Tucson Citizen.com for this posting.

*Testimony of James K. Chilton Jr. With regard to The National Security and Federal Lands Protection Act*
Submitted to the United States House of Representatives  a joint hearing of the Natural Resources Committee and the Oversight and Government Reform Committee

April 15, 2011 

In addition, the Border Patrol must have the ability to immediately *construct helicopter landing pads on mountain tops *and any other locations so that *Mexican cartel scouts occupying mountain tops inside the United States *can be easily and quickly rooted out. Waiting for months or years for NEPA analysis, Endangered Species Act concerns and slow federal land management decisions is not compatible with the Border Patrol mission to CONTROL THE BORDER AT THE BORDER.


Rancher On Border Testifies Before Congress &#8211; The Real Shocking Story « Republic-MainStreet


----------



## LilOlLady

*Obama to hold immigration-reform meeting*
April 19, 2011 

WASHINGTON, April 19 (UPI) -- U.S. President Barack Obama will lose a Democratic congressman's re-election support if he doesn't do more to* reform immigration laws*, the lawmaker said.

"I want to support Barack Obama for re-election," *Rep. Luis Gutierrez, D-Ill., *told MSNBC Monday. "But the lack of progress on immigration reform and the lack of action that Barack Obama, our president, has -- the discretion he has -- is really making that job difficult for me."

Obama to hold immigration-reform meeting - UPI.com

*It time we let our reps and Obama know how we fell about amnesty and enforcement.

We know anyform of amnesty do not fix our immigration problem,, so let try enforcement. * 


*I guess he is running in 2012.*
I just heard a lady bitch on Situation Room say we need more illegal aliens to fill the jobs employers cannot fill? 
WTF are 14 million unemployed Americans?  Non existence?


----------



## LilOlLady

Anything in the form of another amnesty will destroy any hope of ever fixing illegal immigration and secure teh border.. 20 years after the 1986 amnesty we have 20 million more illegal aliens. Not acceptable.  

For one in the life of a president, plesase do the right thing for America and Americans. Your job may depend on amnesty but the lives of American depend on enforcement and border security.

20 million illegal aliens are no hard working peole who only want to take care of their children. 20 million illegal aliens are not pick ing lettuce. Only 2% are in the fields. Where are the other 8%. 7.5. million in the work force, where are the other 13.5 million? How can 7.5 million send $17 billion a year back to mexico?
For once in American history do the right thing and the right thing will be done in return. 


Amnesty, n. *The state's magnanimity to those offenders whom it would be too expensive to punish*. 
Ambrose Bierce


----------



## LostAmerican

LilOlLady said:


> *Obama to hold immigration-reform meeting*
> April 19, 2011
> 
> WASHINGTON, April 19 (UPI) -- U.S. President Barack Obama will lose a Democratic congressman's re-election support if he doesn't do more to* reform immigration laws*, the lawmaker said.
> 
> "I want to support Barack Obama for re-election," *Rep. Luis Gutierrez, D-Ill., *told MSNBC Monday. "But the lack of progress on immigration reform and the lack of action that Barack Obama, our president, has -- the discretion he has -- is really making that job difficult for me."
> 
> Obama to hold immigration-reform meeting - UPI.com
> 
> *It time we let our reps and Obama know how we fell about amnesty and enforcement.*
> 
> *We know anyform of amnesty do not fix our immigration problem,, so let try enforcement. *


 
Punish Luis Gutierrez! Take away HIS citizenship for the acts of treason he has committed against the people of the United States.


----------



## LilOlLady

*GIVE ILLEGAL ALIENS CITIZENSHIP*

*After* they have completed* 200 years of free labor like the African-Americans *did and *another 200 years of discrimination *and having to *take to the streets and protest*, since they like to *compare themselves to the plight of African-Americans.* That&#8217;s&#8217; earning the right to citizenship. Not *stealing across the border scrambling under the radar, hiding out for 20 years and producing over ½ million anchor babies at the expense of those African-Americans and other citizens*. 
http://www.aim.org/special-report/6-billion-a-year-for-mexican-anchor-babies/


A *$5,000 fine it not a fair punishment for the crime committed for entering this country illegally and escaping detection for 20 years.* There is *no statue of limitation *on illegal immigrations,

*During the time of the Jews in the old testament, foreigners had to serve them for 400 years*. 

Gen 15;13...God said to Abram, *"You can know for sure that your descendants will live in a land that is not their own, where they will be slaves, and they will be oppressed for 400 years.*


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

you weren't kidding about the everlasiting gobstopper bit, lol


----------



## LilOlLady

*GIVE ILLEGAL ALIENS CITIZENSHIP*

*After* they have completed* 200 years of free labor *like the African-Americans did and *another 200 years of discrimination *and having to take to the streets and protest, since they like to compare themselves to the plight of African-Americans. Thats earning the right to citizenship. Not stealing across the border scrambling under the radar, hiding out for 20 years and producing ½ million anchor babies at the expense of those African-Americans and other citizens. 
$6 Billion a Year for Mexican &#8220;Anchor Babies?&#8221;

A $5,000 fine it *not a fair punishment for the crime committed *for entering this country illegally and escaping detection for 20 years. There is *no statue of limitation *on illegal immigrations,

During the time of the Jews in the old testament, foreigners had to serve them for 400 years. 

Gen 15;13...God said to Abram, "*You can know for sure that your descendants will live in a land that is not their own, where they will be slaves, and they will be oppressed for 400 years*.


----------



## LilOlLady

LostAmerican said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Obama to hold immigration-reform meeting*
> April 19, 2011
> 
> WASHINGTON, April 19 (UPI) -- U.S. President Barack Obama will lose a Democratic congressman's re-election support if he doesn't do more to* reform immigration laws*, the lawmaker said.
> 
> "I want to support Barack Obama for re-election," *Rep. Luis Gutierrez, D-Ill., *told MSNBC Monday. "But the lack of progress on immigration reform and the lack of action that Barack Obama, our president, has -- the discretion he has -- is really making that job difficult for me."
> 
> Obama to hold immigration-reform meeting - UPI.com
> 
> *It time we let our reps and Obama know how we fell about amnesty and enforcement.*
> 
> *We know anyform of amnesty do not fix our immigration problem,, so let try enforcement. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Punish Luis Gutierrez! Take away HIS citizenship for the acts of treason he has committed against the people of the United States.
Click to expand...


*Obama meets with leaders about immigration* 
CNN White House Producer Becky Brittain 

WASHINGTON (CNN) - President Obama met this afternoon with a* variety *of government, religious, and business leaders *behind closed doors* to discuss immigration.  New York City Mayor *Michael Bloomberg and Rev. Al Sharpton* were among the attendees. According to the White House, the president and the group discussed the failure *to pass the DREAM Act *and "stressed that in order to successfully tackle this issue they must bring the debate to communities around the country and involve many sectors of American society in insisting that Congress act to create a system that *meets our nation's needs for the 21st century *and that upholds America's history as* a nation of laws *and a *nation of immigrants."*
Obama meets with leaders about immigration &#8211; The 1600 Report - CNN.com Blogs
_

&#8220;Variety&#8221; my Fat Old Native American Butt.
*Another back door immigration amnesty bill is in the making *without the  voice of the American people. I am thoroughly pissed that those meeting are all *advocates of legalizatio*n for 20 million illegal aliens with *no input from the opposing voice*. Well, I will make my voice heard loud and clear in 2012 with my vote. T*hey are going to do this no matter how we Americans feel*. Legalization of 20 million illegal aliens will *negatively affect this country and every American man, woman and child *and we should not be excluded. You want to know how this American feels? *Take your immigration bill and roll it up and flush it*. The presence of illegal immigration has already had  an adverse effect. what will happen when they are legalized and bring the families here and add millions of top of the already 20 million. Cost of *&#8220;Chain migration*&#8221; will be astronomically on top of the *cost of legalizationThey are already costing us billions. *. Importing poverty on top of poverty. *&#8220;Meet our nation&#8217;s needs for the 21st century?&#8221;  *Our need are to reduce poverty, not increase it. 
*Nation of "immigrants" not "illegal aliens"*Lets have a town hall meeting in any border city with &#8220;American&#8220; citizens.&#8221;_


----------



## LilOlLady

We have 20 million illegal aliens in this country and only 7.5 million in the work force., What are the other 13 million doing and where will the jobs come from for the "*chain migration?" *When we do not have jobs for the *14 million unemployed americans*?


----------



## LilOlLady

*SEND THEM BACK ACROSS THE BORDER 
AND MAKE THEM CROSS LEGALLY.*

I hurried across the street outside the cross walk and the light to catch a bus that was waiting. A cop saw me and *sent me back across the street *at the cross walk and *made me use the cross walk *and cross on the green light. I missed my bus and had to wait an hour for the next one. *My punishment was to go back across the street and cross it legally*. I was not given the choice to *pay a fine *and catch my bus.
He said; "*Do it right the first time and you want have to do it over."*

Illegal aliens need to be *sent back across the border *that they crossed illegally and *come back across the border legally*. That is the legal *punishment for crossing the border illegally*. Illegal aliens should *not be allowed to pay a fine* for crossing illegally but *go back and enter legally*.

*Chris Matthews* and others believe the &#8220;humane&#8221; &#8220;compassionate&#8221; thing to do is to *let those that are here stay and put on a path to citizenship*? What is so &#8220;inhumane&#8221; &#8220;un-compassionate&#8221; with sending them home to enter legally? Just because they have been here a long time and have children born here is no reason for them to be pardoned for entering the country illegally. *No statue of limitation of &#8220;entering the country illegally*. Other criminals are punished for their crimes and their children are not* &#8220;get out of jail card.&#8221;   * American born children of illegal aliens are not *&#8220;anchors*.&#8221;  *Mexican Constitution, Chapter II, Article 30, paragraph II*

What about the &#8220;inhumane&#8221; conditions I and my family are put in because of the presence of illegal aliens? Sending them home is not a death sentence because they are not coming because they are starving but because of the benefits they receive. And they are not 20 million hard working law abiding people who only want to take care of  their children. They were doing that in Mexico. They are crossing the border in designer cloths and shoes, cell phone and not with pot bellies. Mexico is fully economically capable of taking care of it own. If we need them for our economy, Mexico must need them more.

*Chris Matthews* and others do not have to live with them and their graffiti, gangs, drugs and crime. They and their children do not compete for class room space and for education. They do not have to compete with them for their jobs.  Illegal immigration do not touch people like the Obamas and the Matthews and until it does they cannot understand how it touches others.

There is no way to solve the illegal immigration problem except by enforcement of our immigration laws which is legal and not inhumane. Which has not been done or else there would not be 20 million entering after the 1986 amnesty. 

*What is the benefit for us and Mexico for them to remain here? Who benefit&#8217;s the most by them being put on a path to citizenship? Sure as hell not me and my family.*

Of the 20 million that are here, how many are criminals and potential criminals. Will they be put on a path to citizenship also. If not, what will we do with them? Round them up and deport them? No more than we would round up the others. They will be put on a path to citizenship with the rest. What if one member of the family is a criminal, will the entire family be deported? This path to citizenship cannot be effectively implemented. Just send them back across the border and make them cross legally. Then we might know who is here.


*&#8220;Do it right the first time and you want have to do it over&#8221;*


----------



## LilOlLady

*IT ALL ADDS UP TO AMNESTY.

Call a rose a banana and it is still a rose. A green card, temporary visa, temporary work program, path the citizenship it all add up to a big amnesty. If they are here and they get to stay,  its AMNESTY. Dip it in sugar and it is still AMNESTY.*

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

*These are not the people that has invaded and occupied this country and we are no longer into nation building but nation survival. We are running out of natural resources and will not have enough to sustain our own, much less 20 million plus more if we give amnesty to 20 million and bring their families. We are destine for self destruction of America that our ancestors worked so hard to build. These were the people who come and they asked for nothing but gave ever thing they had to build this country and make it what it is today. They came in the light of day, heads held high and registered at the door. We are in survival mode and amnesty works against us all we have worked so hard for.*


*Why I Support Amnesty for Undocumented Immigrants*
By Tom Head, 

"Although there are a lot of immigration reform proposals on the table, virtually everyone agrees that *they don't support amnesty.* This is fine; *a transitional citizenship arrangement *has no more to do with amnesty than civil *unions do with same-sex marriage,* or *mainstream affirmative action policies do with racial quotas*. But I do support amnesty." Here's why. Tom Head
Immigrant Amnesty and the Rule of Law - Why the Immigrant Amnesty Debate Isn't Really About the Rule of Law
e-mail Tom Head --civilliberty.guide@about.com.


*One thing Tom Head forgot to mention in his article was the cost of illegal immigration, cost of Amnesty and Chain Migration. And what it would mean for the economy which is on the brink of bankrupt. 20 million plus will not save us, but will hasten bankruptcy. 
Never heard such a bucket of horse s***.*


----------



## LilOlLady

In the 2012 election I will vote straight *&#8220;immigration enforcement*.&#8221; No other issue are more important to me and my family because all the other issues *all are affected by illegal immigration*. Cuts are being made to *services and benefits to all Americans *and you want us to share *&#8220;nothing&#8221;* with those who are not in the country legally and for us to pay for it with *&#8220;nothing&#8221; *we have? *Don&#8217;t even think about it.*


----------



## Flopper

I think I've heard this one before


----------



## Annie

LilOlLady said:


> In the 2012 election I will vote straight *immigration enforcement*. No other issue are more important to me and my family because all the other issues *all are affected by illegal immigration*. Cuts are being made to *services and benefits to all Americans *and you want us to share *nothing* with those who are not in the country legally and for us to pay for it with *nothing *we have? *Dont even think about it.*



And which Democrat would that be? Obama?


----------



## STREICHER187

Correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't it a republican president who gave amnesty to millions of Mexicans. In fact Obama is deporting more people then Bush did. 

The only way to stop it is to send the guard to the border and seal it off then deal with the millions that are here. I think if they serve in the military they should be citizens. And there are millions of deadbeat Americans I would gladly send to Mexico in exchange for people who want to work.


----------



## hortysir

LilOlLady said:


> In the 2012 election I will vote straight *immigration enforcement*. No other issue are more important to me and my family because all the other issues *all are affected by illegal immigration*. Cuts are being made to *services and benefits to all Americans *and you want us to share *nothing* with those who are not in the country legally and for us to pay for it with *nothing *we have? *Dont even think about it.*



How drastically do they really affect your day-to-day life?
Do you live in Juarez? Texas? Arizona?
Ellaborate


----------



## The Infidel

STREICHER187 said:


> Correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't it a republican president who gave amnesty to millions of Mexicans. *In fact Obama is deporting more people then Bush did. *




If, and thats a big *IF*, but if that were true.... It would be due to the fact that there'nt are'nt any jobs.

Just sayin' 


Obama is'nt doing shit on the border though. Lets see.... put up a G-damn sign warning Americans that particular part of the border is unsafe, and to stay away..... 


Nahh... Im sorry, but Obama sucks on immigration and so did Bush.


----------



## brokenarrow

Why are Americans afraid to attack "immigration" rallies? They're run by the enemies of the United States. Will it be easier to remove the problem these foreigners create once they are considered Americans?


----------



## blackyb

LilOlLady said:


> *SEND THEM BACK ACROSS THE BORDER
> AND MAKE THEM CROSS LEGALLY.*
> 
> I hurried across the street outside the cross walk and the light to catch a bus that was waiting. A cop saw me and *sent me back across the street *at the cross walk and *made me use the cross walk *and cross on the green light. I missed my bus and had to wait an hour for the next one. *My punishment was to go back across the street and cross it legally*. I was not given the choice to *pay a fine *and catch my bus.
> He said; "*Do it right the first time and you want have to do it over."*
> 
> Illegal aliens need to be *sent back across the border *that they crossed illegally and *come back across the border legally*. That is the legal *punishment for crossing the border illegally*. Illegal aliens should *not be allowed to pay a fine* for crossing illegally but *go back and enter legally*.
> 
> *Chris Matthews* and others believe the humane compassionate thing to do is to *let those that are here stay and put on a path to citizenship*? What is so inhumane un-compassionate with sending them home to enter legally? Just because they have been here a long time and have children born here is no reason for them to be pardoned for entering the country illegally. *No statue of limitation of entering the country illegally*. Other criminals are punished for their crimes and their children are not* get out of jail card.   * American born children of illegal aliens are not *anchors*.  *Mexican Constitution, Chapter II, Article 30, paragraph II*
> 
> What about the inhumane conditions I and my family are put in because of the presence of illegal aliens? Sending them home is not a death sentence because they are not coming because they are starving but because of the benefits they receive. And they are not 20 million hard working law abiding people who only want to take care of  their children. They were doing that in Mexico. They are crossing the border in designer cloths and shoes, cell phone and not with pot bellies. Mexico is fully economically capable of taking care of it own. If we need them for our economy, Mexico must need them more.
> 
> *Chris Matthews* and others do not have to live with them and their graffiti, gangs, drugs and crime. They and their children do not compete for class room space and for education. They do not have to compete with them for their jobs.  Illegal immigration do not touch people like the Obamas and the Matthews and until it does they cannot understand how it touches others.
> 
> There is no way to solve the illegal immigration problem except by enforcement of our immigration laws which is legal and not inhumane. Which has not been done or else there would not be 20 million entering after the 1986 amnesty.
> 
> *What is the benefit for us and Mexico for them to remain here? Who benefits the most by them being put on a path to citizenship? Sure as hell not me and my family.*
> 
> Of the 20 million that are here, how many are criminals and potential criminals. Will they be put on a path to citizenship also. If not, what will we do with them? Round them up and deport them? No more than we would round up the others. They will be put on a path to citizenship with the rest. What if one member of the family is a criminal, will the entire family be deported? This path to citizenship cannot be effectively implemented. Just send them back across the border and make them cross legally. Then we might know who is here.
> 
> 
> *Do it right the first time and you want have to do it over*



Those attempting to implode the U.S.A. are benefiting from illegal immigration.


----------



## blackyb

Those trying to cross the border from Mexico and South American  routes who are up to no good and can blend in because of their body shading will benefit. They are in essence invading our country and those people who are assisting this are treasonous. It is helping overload this country at the least financially and putting her in danger from terrorists, gangs and drugs used to cause the youth to err and the country even more expense as a result of the crime and financial aid to deserted families and this is aside from the job lost to those who come in here who end up hiring their own ethnics in jobs they have after they have become financially stable at the U.S. tax payer expense.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Negative Side Of Illegal Immig. and Amnesty.*

The side of Obama and his company *do not talk about and dont want to hear*. Illegal aliens are not all *hard working law abiding people *who only want to *make a better life for their families*.  Americans wants a better life for their families also and *illegal immigration and amnesty adversely affects that*. All the anchor babies and children of illegal aliens are not working hard in school. Some of in *gangs, defacing property with graffiti, dealing in drugs and other criminal activity terrorizing American communitie*s.

The *majority of Americans *are *against illegal immigration and amnesty *in any form but don't know the dire situation that our country is in and the *damage that illegal aliens are doing to the United States*.  Obama and Company if you believe Americans wants amnesty or path to citizenship for those that are here, *you are not listening to Americans*.  We are a* nation of immigrants *and *not a nation of illegal aliens.* 

Our immigration system is not broken because we allow 500,000 immigrants to enter legally each year.  But Obama and Company believe we should allow more to enter. What is broken is *our enforcement and border security system*. 20 million illegal aliens have entered in the past 20 years since 1986. 1986 was a mistake that has cost us dearly. Lets  learn from our mistakes and not make that same mistake again. *We cannot afford illegal immigration or amnesty*.


There is absolute *no evidence that illegal aliens make any contribution to this country **economically, environmentally *or any way what so ever.  The fact is they *receive more in benefits and services than they contribute in taxes, etc*. Since they are *low wage earner and pay very little in taxes if any*. And they *steal more from their employers than they b*uy. I hate to say that but I know it as a fact. The cost of *education, healthcare, law enforcement and incarceration *is astronomically. And the *hard working law abiding American who only want a better life for their families are footing bill for illegal aliens*. Cost of having a* Bi-lingual country.* They are *opening neighborhood Mama and Papa stores *all across America *putting Mom and Pop stores out of business*. 

*Amnesty*, call it path to citizenship or any thing else, but *if they are allowed to remain here indefinitely, it is amnesty*.  It will cause the *population to explode with chain migration of families *of those given amnesty and cause a* mass exodus from south of the border *of illegal aliens crossing the border *to get in on the next amnesty*.  The millions will *take and compete for jobs and bring down wages *because of *massive amount of workers*. And their children will *being down our education system *and *compete for job with our children *who are *already struggling *to get an education that will lead to jobs.  *Natural resources will be depleted *sooner than expected because of the *population explosion *that will come with another amnesty.

We do not need to *make immigration easier, we need to control it*. We cannot afford to *make immigration easier and let more immigrants into the country*. *20 million in 20 years, 500,000 anchor babies born each year and 500,000 immigrate legally each year is not enough*? 

*Lady liberty is 126 years old,  has served her purpose, has retired and close to death. Let her rest in peace*


----------



## whitehall

Ugly side? Is there a pretty side of illegal immigration? It doesn't matter whether you can find a hard working criminal alien. The word illegal says it all.


----------



## LilOlLady

*None of these agrument fly.*

*-Undocumented immigrants might be afraid to seek healthcare, which could mean that they will spread disease to others.*

Healthcare and incarcerations *cost california $10.5 billion a year *shoots the hell out of that pig.

*-Udocumented children are sometimes unable to attend school, especially college, which could lead to more poverty and crime.*

How Illegal Immigration is Sending Schools Into the Red-
http://www.mnforsustain.org/immg_costs_ ... s_fair.htm

*-If an illegal alien witnesses a crime, he or she might be afraid to come forward to authorities, for fear of being discovered*

Incarceration. The cost of incarcerating illegal aliens in Arizona prisons and jails amounts to about *$80 million a year *(not including the *monetary costs of the crimes *that led to their incarceration).

FAIR: Federation for American Immigration Reform ... enters5e3f


----------



## LilOlLady

*WE ARE A NATION OF LAWS.*

We are a nation of laws and when we do not enforce laws that we make because there are a group of people who dont like them and refuse to recognize them we no longer exist as a sovereign nation. Our laws cannot *apply to one group of people and not another*. We cannot as a nation *excuse some and punish others *who do not obey our laws. We do not *change to law to excuse people who cannot obey them* either. 

Illegal aliens should not be rewarded with amnesty or a path to citizenship just because they chose to ignore our immigration laws. Which laws can you and I break and be excused and rewarded. What kind of message are we sending those who choose to respect and obey our immigration laws by waiting to immigrate legally? That our laws are not worth the paper they are written on and do not matter if you just get into the country? If we let those who are here illegally stay, they are automatically ahead of those waiting by the rules to get in. Those that are here are already reaping the benefits of our system and that puts them in front of the line. In the back of the line for citizenship? *What illegal alien gives a damn about citizenship*? There are some who have been here for years and have not applies for citizenship or learned English. 

*Illegal immigration violates every Americans civil rights. Those that believe illegal aliens must be allowed to stay here simple because they are here have no respect for our laws*. 

*We are a nation of laws. And in order for there to be laws, we as a nation, must have a defined sense of what is right and what is wrong. Without a notion of right and wrong there can be no notion of legal and illegal. For what is legal and what is illegal can not be defined without first defining right from wrong. *A Nation of Laws - Conservative Politics Web Site


----------



## MikeK

It is difficult to acknowledge the statement that we are a nation of laws considering how brazenly the Bush Administration committed some of the most egregious crimes in the history of our Nation's government.  And because Obama prevented his Attorney General from investigating these obvious crimes he has made himself complicit in them.  

Those circumstances, and others, clearly demonstrate that we are not a nation of laws.  Rather, we are a nation whose laws apply to ordinary citizens but not to the politically powerful.  In the shadow of such monumental contempt for the Criminal Law, how can we focus serious attention on some poor, wretched wetback who sneaks across our border just to earn enough money to keep his family back in Mexico from starving?


----------



## brokenarrow

MikeK said:


> In the shadow of such monumental contempt for the Criminal Law, how can we focus serious attention on some poor, wretched wetback who sneaks across our border just to earn enough money to keep his family back in Mexico from starving?


 
Simple........They're not Americans!

Do you really believe that Mexicans are starving?

Read:
*The High Prevalence of Overweight and*
*Obesity in Mexican Children*

http://www.lemonworld.com/juliazeuli/diabetesweb/1_2-ChildhoodObesityMexico.pdf​​


----------



## editec

We are a nation of many laws, that is true.

But the law is no more useful than its application.

All the best laws in the world don't make a difference if the people charged with their judicious application are corrupt.


----------



## Truthmatters

Or if the laws is uninforceable.

If you make a law against breathing you will never be able to inforce it.

The laws we made against these people coming here are uninforceable.

The proof is in the fact that it was never inforced.

We have businesses that depend on their labor for their very exsistance yet we allow for only a tiny fraction of them to come here legally.

Pretending crossing the border to obtain the work to supply your family with the basic nessesities is tantamount to even drunk driving is a morall affront on logic.


These people come because we welcome them financially and then some pretend they are monsters because our laws dont jibe with our actions.


----------



## spectrumc01

Laws are needed to maintain order, and hopefully keep the playing field level for all.  

I believe with all my heart that, "If we can not apply a particular law equally and fairly to everyone we can not apply that particular law to anyone."  It really is the only moral way to go.


----------



## brokenarrow

When the head law enforcer, the President, refuses to enforce the law of the land and protect Americans from foreigners, you no longer have a system based on laws, you have anarchy.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Truthmatters said:


> Or if the laws is uninforceable.
> 
> If you make a law against breathing you will never be able to inforce it.
> 
> The laws we made against these people coming here are uninforceable.
> 
> The proof is in the fact that it was never inforced.
> 
> We have businesses that depend on their labor for their very exsistance yet we allow for only a tiny fraction of them to come here legally.
> 
> Pretending crossing the border to obtain the work to supply your family with the basic nessesities is tantamount to even drunk driving is a morall affront on logic.
> 
> 
> These people come because we welcome them financially and then some pretend they are monsters because our laws dont jibe with our actions.



Sorry, but your unwillingness to respect and enforce laws, and that of the political jackasses you worship, does not constitute "unenforceable".  That just says to me that the idiots need to be replaced, not that the laws do.


----------



## LilOlLady

*The latest on California politics and government
April 21, 2011
California's criminal alien population rises*

The number of criminal aliens incarcerated in California *rose to 102,795 in 2009*, a *17 percent increase since 2003*, federal auditors reported Thursday.

*This isn't cheap.* Nationwide, the Government Accountability Office reports, it costs well over *$1.1 billion a year *for states to imprison criminal aliens -- those who committed a crime after entering the United States illegally. California, moreover, is more expensive than other states. GAO auditors estimated *California spends $34,000 to incarcerate a criminal alien for one year*; *in Texas, it's only $12,000*.

The audit, requested by Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-San Jose, will provide ammunition for states' perennial effort to secure *more federal reimbursement dollars*.

More than one in four of the illegal immigrants imprisoned in California are behind bars for *drug offenses*. Many are also *repeat offenders*. GAO auditors say that, based on a survey, criminal alien inmates have been arrested an average of seven different times.

Capitol Alert: California's criminal alien population rises 


*

This is one of the many problems that come with illegal immigration. Why don't we just deport them and their families and close the border so they cannot come back and let Mexico deal with them. Instead of letting them out after their serve their time and they go home to family and continure their criminal activity until the next time. 

How do they intend to deal with the ciminals when considering path to citizenship or amnesty? Criminals are not going to come out of the shadows. We have to deport all 20 million of them, close the border and open an Ellis Island on the border with one entrance in and one going out.
This is way to solve the immigration problem and balance the budget at the same time.*


----------



## Gunny

LilOlLady said:


> *The latest on California politics and government
> April 21, 2011
> California's criminal alien population rises*
> 
> The number of criminal aliens incarcerated in California *rose to 102,795 in 2009*, a *17 percent increase since 2003*, federal auditors reported Thursday.
> 
> *This isn't cheap.* Nationwide, the Government Accountability Office reports, it costs well over *$1.1 billion a year *for states to imprison criminal aliens -- those who committed a crime after entering the United States illegally. California, moreover, is more expensive than other states. GAO auditors estimated *California spends $34,000 to incarcerate a criminal alien for one year*; *in Texas, it's only $12,000*.
> 
> The audit, requested by Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-San Jose, will provide ammunition for states' perennial effort to secure *more federal reimbursement dollars*.
> 
> More than one in four of the illegal immigrants imprisoned in California are behind bars for *drug offenses*. Many are also *repeat offenders*. GAO auditors say that, based on a survey, criminal alien inmates have been arrested an average of seven different times.
> 
> Capitol Alert: California's criminal alien population rises
> 
> 
> *
> 
> This is one of the many problems that come with illegal immigration. Why don't we just deport them and their families and close the border so they cannot come back and let Mexico deal with them. Instead of letting them out after their serve their time and they go home to family and continure their criminal activity until the next time.
> 
> How do they intend to deal with the ciminals when considering path to citizenship or amnesty? Criminals are not going to come out of the shadows. We have to deport all 20 million of them, close the border and open an Ellis Island on the border with one entrance in and one going out.
> This is way to solve the immigration problem and balance the budget at the same time.*



How many threads do you think you need to create apologizing for criminals?


----------



## LilOlLady

*California's criminal alien population rises *
The latest on California politics and government
April 21, 2011 

The number of criminal aliens incarcerated in California rose to* 102,795 in 2009*, a 17 percent increase since 2003, federal auditors reported Thursday.

This isn't cheap. Nationwide, the Government Accountability Office reports, it costs well over* $1.1 billion a year for states to imprison criminal aliens *-- those who committed a crime after entering the United States illegally. California, moreover, is more expensive than other states. GAO auditors estimated *California spends $34,000 to incarcerate a criminal alien for one year;* in Texas, it's only $12,000.

The audit, requested by Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-San Jose, will provide ammunition for states' perennial effort to secure *more federal reimbursement dollars*.

More than one in four of the illegal immigrants imprisoned in California are behind bars for *drug offenses*. Many are also *repeat offenders*. GAO auditors say that, based on a survey, *criminal alien inmates have been arrested an average of seven different times.*
Capitol Alert: California's criminal alien population rises


*

This is one of the many problems that come with illegal immigration. Why don't we just deport them and their families and close the border so they cannot come back and let Mexico deal with them. Instead of letting them out after their serve their time and they go home to family and continure their criminal activity until the next time. 

How do they intend to deal with the ciminals when considering path to citizenship or amnesty? Criminals are not going to come out of the shadows. We have to deport all 20 million of them, close the border and open an Ellis Island on the border with one entrance in and one going out.
This is way to solve the immigration problem and balance the budget at the same time. *

*I thought I make myself very clear on where I stand on illegal immigration and criminals illegal aliens. Guess I didn't.  I don't know how else to say it.*


----------



## mudwhistle

I think we should take em to the border and catapult them over the fence. 

Oh, that's right. Big Sister doesn't need a fence. She's been kicking them out in record numbers, according to her.


----------



## chanel

I heard CA has bingo, therapeuriic massages, and personal trainers or some shit. Can get pretty expensive I imagine.


----------



## waltky

Another good idea...

*Prove You're Here Legally Before Getting Govt Services, Voters Say*
_Friday, April 22, 2011  Most voters in the United States want stricter enforcement of immigration laws, and a vast majority say people should be required to prove they are in the country legally before receiving any federal, state or local services, according to a new poll._


> Before anyone receives local, state or federal government services, should they be required to prove they are legally allowed to be in the United States? Rasmussen Reports asked likely voters.  Eighty-four percent of respondents answered in the affirmative, while nine percent disagreed.  Most voters continue to feel that the policies of the federal government encourage illegal immigration, Rasmussen commented.
> 
> In the same vein, the polling firm found that a solid majority oppose birthright citizenship for the children of illegal immigrants.  It asked, Suppose a woman enters the United States as an illegal alien and gives birth to a child in the United States. Should that child automatically become a citizen of the United States?  No, said 61 percent of respondents, while 28 percent said yes, and percent were undecided. Under current law the child would automatically gain citizenship.
> 
> Sixty-three percent of unaffiliated voters, whom both party try to court each election season, agree with the majority that citizenship should not be automatic.  The pollster said the 61 percent result was up slightly from last August but is the highest level of support for a change in the existing law found in five years of Rasmussen Reports surveying.  Both questions came to prominence last year. In November, the California Supreme Court in a controversial ruling supported the right of illegal immigrants to get in-state tuition rates. The only requirement is that they are high school graduates and have spent three years at a California high school. Opponents say they plan to appeal the decision before the U.S. Supreme Court.
> 
> MORE


----------



## LilOlLady

*Characteristics of the Illegal Alien Population *
(1992)
One way to get a sense of *what the illegal alien population is like *is to look at the* illegal aliens who were given amnesty in the late 1980s *(under the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986). This group of almost* three million illegal aliens*, all of whom had been in the United States since before 1982, was made into *legal aliens *and has since been surveyed by the federal government. The government study found that *out of the amnestied illegal alien population:*

94 percent had migrated for economic reasons.
55 percent lived in California.
*70 percent were from Mexico.*1
3 percent were from* Central America.*
74 percent had never been apprehended.
*15 percent spoke English*.
*80 percent used public health services.
49 percent had no health insurance*. 

Their median age was 32, with an average household of four, seven years education, an hourly wage of $5.45, an *annual individual income of $8,982*, and *annual family income of $15,364*.
FAIR: Distribution of the Illegal Alien Population

*And we want to do this again for 20 million?*


----------



## LilOlLady

*LLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS A CRIME*

Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:

*Enters or attempts to enter *the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or 
Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or 
Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact; 
has committed *a federal crime.*

Violations are punishable by *criminal fines and imprisonment for up to six months*. Repeat offenses can bring up to two years in prison. Additional civil fines may be imposed at the discretion of immigration judges, but civil fines do not negate the *criminal sanctions *or nature of the offense.
See: Unlawful entry a crime since '29 - Rocky Mountain News -- June 11, 2006 
Illegal Immigration IS A CRIME!

*That means &#8220;anyone&#8221; that enters this country illegal has committed a federal crime and anyone who commits a crime therefore is a &#8220;criminal.&#8221; And &#8220;criminals&#8221; can be profiled.*



*Federal Immigration and Nationality Act
Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii)*

*Enforcement* 
*State and local law enforcement officials *have the general power to *investigate and arrest violators *of federal immigration statutes without prior INS knowledge or approval, as long as they are *authorized to do so by state law*. There is no extant federal limitation on this authority. The 1996 immigration control legislation passed by Congress was intended to *encourage states and local agencies *to *participate in the process of enforcing federal immigration laws*. Immigration officers and local law enforcement officers may detain an individual for a brief warrantless interrogation where circumstances create a *reasonable suspicion *that the individual is illegally present in the U.S. Specific facts constituting a reasonable suspicion include evasive, nervous, or erratic behavior; *dress or speech indicating foreign citizenship*; *(racial profiling)* and *presence in an area known to contain a concentration of illegal aliens*. *Hispanic appearance **alone* is not sufficient. Immigration officers and police must have a valid warrant or valid employer's consent to enter *workplaces or residences*.  
Aiding, abetting, harboring, encouraging illegals a felony

*This is racial profiling of criminals and it is legal. If we can profile bank robbers and nationality and race can be used to identify, then profiling illegal aliens is legal. It is absolutely necessary to profile illegal aliens in order to enforce our immigration laws and if we did we would not have 20 million to enter in the past 20 years.*


----------



## Shogun

what the hell is "Llegal Immigration"?

is it like "Llama Immigration"?


"Lloyd Immigration"?


----------



## LilOlLady

*Congressman Luis Gutierriz want deportation of immigrants to stop. When have we stopped arresting and jailing criminals who are not dangerous. Our jails and prisons are full of criminals who are not "dangerous." Criminals break up their families, we don't. Does that mean we cannot deport illegal aliens criminals because they have children. Or cannot jail a criminal if he has children?
*

*Hundreds rally against deportation of immigrants*
WBTV -- Charlotte, NC ^ | Apr 20, 2011 | Tom Roussey 

Hundreds of people rallied at a church in Charlotte's Belmont neighborhood Wednesday night, calling for an end to *deportations that break up families*

He says too many are being later deported by the federal government after being arrested for minor offenses. 

"I want my federal government to make me safer by going after dangerous criminals in our community, jailing them and deporting them," Gutierrez said. "Those aren't dangerous criminals that we heard from today." 

But Mecklenburg County Sheriff Chipp Bailey says 287g is a great program that does what it's meant to do. 

"No one living here has anything to fear as long as they follow the law," Bailey told WBTV. 

Hundreds rally against deportation of immigrants


----------



## LilOlLady

* Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN*

Are we "SLOW LEARNERS" or what?


"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith *becomes an American and assimilates himself to us*, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and* nothing but an American*...There can be *no divided allegiance here*. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but* one flag*, *the American flag,* and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but o*ne language here, and that is the English language*...and we have room for but *one sole loyalty* and that is *a loyalty to the American people*."
Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants - Urban Legends
*Theodore Roosevelt 1907*


----------



## LilOlLady

*Why do we celebrate Cinco De Mayo?*

Cinco De Mayo commemorates the *victory of 4,000 Mexican soldiers against 8,000 French forces *on the morning of May 5, 1862 *in Puebla, Mexico*.

Should be celebrate an African or African-American's Independence Day?


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Shogun said:


> what the hell is "Llegal Immigration"?
> 
> is it like "Llama Immigration"?
> 
> 
> "Lloyd Immigration"?



Not smart enough to know shes talking about illegal?


----------



## Gadawg73

I vote Republican since 1972 95% of the time.
My county is 100% Republican, no Democrat elected to anything. 
My neighbor is a county commissioner, was on the school board and other community positions. I like the guy.
He favors strict rules on immigration. I just returned from the local coffee shop and saw a half dozen Mexicans in his yard spreading pine straw. He picks them up by the grocery store in town where they hang out looking for work.
THEY WILL GO HOME IF WE QUIT *DEMANDING *THEM.


----------



## brokenarrow

LilOlLady said:


> *Why do we celebrate Cinco De Mayo?*
> 
> Cinco De Mayo commemorates the *victory of 4,000 Mexican soldiers against 8,000 French forces *on the morning of May 5, 1862 *in Puebla, Mexico*.
> 
> Should be celebrate an African or African-American's Independence Day?


 
And why don't we celibrate the American victory over the Mexicans in the Mexican War of 1846?


----------



## brokenarrow

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> what the hell is "Llegal Immigration"?
> 
> is it like "Llama Immigration"?
> 
> 
> "Lloyd Immigration"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not smart enough to know shes talking about illegal?
Click to expand...

 
But it's better than Mexicans destroying the Spanish language.


----------



## LilOlLady

INCARCERATED ILLEGAL ALIENS

Incarceration of criminal illegal aliens is a problem of our broken enforcement and border security system. Criminal illegal aliens are a product (off spring) of illegal immigration and Comprehensive Immigration Reform should deal with enforcement and border security and not catch and release and amnesty. 

California alone in 2009 had over 100,000 incarcerated illegal alien criminals at a cost to the tax payers of $34,000 each a year each. This is only California. Multiply that by 52 and the cost is astronomical. The is a problem that could easily be corrected if we enforced our immigration laws and secured our border and deport illegal alien criminals instead of housing them. Deportation do not separate families, illegal immigration does.

Unlimited supply of unskilled illegal workers are of no benefit to our economy and those that become skilled are further compete for jobs with our own skilled workers. Matter of fact they are a drain our on our economy. Majority of illegal aliens do not come here to work in agriculture but go to the inner cities to take unskilled jobs from Americas unskilled workers. Criminal illegal aliens are all part of a family unit and as one goes the other goes also. Crime is a more lucrative business here than in Mexico, so they come. The biggest incident of crime and fraud came from hard working family of illegal aliens. 

More secured border than ever, more deportations than ever is not enough. We have a legal immigration system that is not broken. It allows 500,000 to enter the country each year. More than ever. A criminal is a criminal. Illegal is illegal and when we realize that the solution to our illegal immigration problem is a piece of cake.


----------



## LilOlLady

MS 13.

Why are there a MS13 gang problem in this country? Because our enforcement and border security system is broken. Why isnt our military here going from city to city scooping them up and putting them on rocket ships back to Venezuela via the moon? They are the most dangerous terrorist in the nation but be are spending billions fight a few thugs half way cross the world who do not have the military power or do the damage of MS13. They are committing crimes, murdering, dealing in drugs and terrorizing cities across this nation. We know who they are, what they are doing and where they are so why are they still here?

They are not here because our immigration system is broken but because our *enforcement and border security system is broken *and no one in our government has the cajones to fix it. Fix our enforcement and border security system and we fix our illegal immigration problem. Not Comprehensive Immigration Reform with amnesty which will only exacerbate the illegal immigration and illegal crime problem. It does not take a miracle to get that done. Only someone in government that has the cajones to do it.


----------



## LilOlLady

Gunny said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The latest on California politics and government
> April 21, 2011
> California's criminal alien population rises*
> 
> The number of criminal aliens incarcerated in California *rose to 102,795 in 2009*, a *17 percent increase since 2003*, federal auditors reported Thursday.
> 
> *This isn't cheap.* Nationwide, the Government Accountability Office reports, it costs well over *$1.1 billion a year *for states to imprison criminal aliens -- those who committed a crime after entering the United States illegally. California, moreover, is more expensive than other states. GAO auditors estimated *California spends $34,000 to incarcerate a criminal alien for one year*; *in Texas, it's only $12,000*.
> 
> The audit, requested by Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-San Jose, will provide ammunition for states' perennial effort to secure *more federal reimbursement dollars*.
> 
> More than one in four of the illegal immigrants imprisoned in California are behind bars for *drug offenses*. Many are also *repeat offenders*. GAO auditors say that, based on a survey, criminal alien inmates have been arrested an average of seven different times.
> 
> Capitol Alert: California's criminal alien population rises
> 
> 
> *
> 
> This is one of the many problems that come with illegal immigration. Why don't we just deport them and their families and close the border so they cannot come back and let Mexico deal with them. Instead of letting them out after their serve their time and they go home to family and continure their criminal activity until the next time.
> 
> How do they intend to deal with the ciminals when considering path to citizenship or amnesty? Criminals are not going to come out of the shadows. We have to deport all 20 million of them, close the border and open an Ellis Island on the border with one entrance in and one going out.
> This is way to solve the immigration problem and balance the budget at the same time.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many threads do you think you need to create* apologizing *for criminals?
Click to expand...


Can you even read?
What part of "*deport them" *and close the border and *"stop housing them*" do you not understand?


----------



## LilOlLady

mudwhistle said:


> I think we should take em to the border and catapult them over the fence.
> 
> Oh, that's right. Big Sister doesn't need a fence. She's been kicking them out in record numbers, *according to her*.



You cannot read and comprehend at the same time either. *Kicking them our in record number is not enough.*


----------



## LilOlLady

mudwhistle said:


> I think we should take em to the border and catapult them over the fence.
> 
> Oh, that's right. Big Sister doesn't need a fence. She's been kicking them out in record numbers, according to her.





* Patriotic Millionaires want to pay more taxes, You are just not listening.*


----------



## LilOlLady

*LEFT WING RHETORIC FOR AMNESTY *

Advocates for amnesty for 20 million illegal aliens present a side of illegal immigration that do not exist.
If 20 million illegal aliens left the country our economy would collapse. Not true. The cost of illegal immigrants cost us more they contribute in income taxes or sale taxes.  That cost is education, healthcare, welfare for anchor babies, law enforcement and incarcerations. If deporting them would cause our economy to collapse, how much more it affects Mexicos economy when its economy loses 20 million of its workforce. It would benefit us and Mexico more if they returned to Mexico alone with 500,000 anchor babies that we have educated.  If Mexicos economy is healthy, Mexicans will not want to come here. 

Amnesty will bring the out of the shadows and they will contribute more to our economy. It is estimated that *illegal aliens contribute $428 billion in taxes in 2006*. Not to mention sales taxes. But how *is it possible for 7.5 million low income workers contribute $428 billion in taxes? *How is it possible for *7.5 million low wage earning illegal aliens send home $17 billion each year*? If they were needed to save our economy, social security and Medicare, *why are these programs broke *and *we have the biggest deficit in history.? *

We are not going to round up 20 million people and deport them. Yes we can, but we dont have to. Take away jobs and you take away the incentive and they will not be able to work and they will self deport. Thousands have already self deported because on the economy and no work.

There is *absolute no benefits for giving amnesty to 20 million low wage earner *who receive benefits that far out weighs contributions. Amnesty in 1986 had no benefit to us what so every. It contributed to the 20 million more low wage earners entering this country illegally and the cost criminal illegal aliens.

*Illegal Immigration Costs U.S. $113 Billion a Year,* 
Study Finds
By Ed Barnes
Published July 06, 2010
Groups that support immigration reform immediately attacked FAIR's report and pointed out that it is the polar opposite of the Perryman Report, a 2008 study that found illegal immigration was actually a boon to the American economy. It estimated that illegal immigrants add $245 billion in Gross Domestic Product to the economy and account for 2.8 million jobs.

The most important finding of the study is the enormous cost to state and local governments due to lack of enforcement of our immigration laws, Martin wrote.
The report found that the federal government paid $28.6 billion in illegal related costs, and state and local governments paid $84.2 billion on an estimated 13 million undocumented residents. In his speech, Obama estimated that there are 11 million

Illegal Immigration Costs U.S. $113 Billion a Year, Study Finds - FoxNews.com


----------



## Truthseeker420

do you have a credible source?


----------



## brokenarrow

LilOlLady said:


> *LEFT WING RHETORIC FOR AMNESTY *
> 
> Advocates for amnesty for 20 million illegal aliens present a side of illegal immigration that do not exist.
> If 20 million illegal aliens left the country our economy would collapse. Not true. The cost of illegal immigrants cost us more they contribute in income taxes or sale taxes. That cost is education, healthcare, welfare for anchor babies, law enforcement and incarcerations. If deporting them would cause our economy to collapse, how much more it affects Mexico&#8217;s economy when it&#8217;s economy loses 20 million of it&#8217;s workforce. It would benefit us and Mexico more if they returned to Mexico alone with 500,000 anchor babies that we have educated. If Mexico&#8217;s economy is healthy, Mexicans will not want to come here.
> 
> Amnesty will bring the out of the shadows and they will contribute more to our economy. It is estimated that *illegal aliens contribute $428 billion in taxes in 2006*. Not to mention sales taxes. But how *is it possible for 7.5 million low income workers contribute $428 billion in taxes? *How is it possible for *7.5 million low wage earning illegal aliens send home $17 billion each year*? If they were needed to save our economy, social security and Medicare, *why are these programs broke *and *we have the biggest deficit in history.? *
> 
> We are not going to round up 20 million people and deport them. Yes we can, but we don&#8217;t have to. Take away jobs and you take away the incentive and they will not be able to work and they will self deport. Thousands have already self deported because on the economy and no work.
> 
> There is *absolute no benefits for giving amnesty to 20 million low wage earner *who receive benefits that far out weighs contributions. Amnesty in 1986 had no benefit to us what so every. It contributed to the 20 million more low wage earners entering this country illegally and the cost criminal illegal aliens.
> 
> *Illegal Immigration Costs U.S. $113 Billion a Year,*
> Study Finds
> By Ed Barnes
> Published July 06, 2010
> Groups that support immigration reform immediately attacked FAIR's report and pointed out that it is the polar opposite of the Perryman Report, a 2008 study that found illegal immigration was actually a boon to the American economy. It estimated that illegal immigrants add $245 billion in Gross Domestic Product to the economy and account for 2.8 million jobs.
> 
> &#8220;The most important finding of the study is the enormous cost to state and local governments due to lack of enforcement of our immigration laws,&#8221; Martin wrote.
> The report found that the federal government paid $28.6 billion in illegal related costs, and state and local governments paid $84.2 billion on an estimated 13 million undocumented residents. In his speech, Obama estimated that there are 11 million
> 
> Illegal Immigration Costs U.S. $113 Billion a Year, Study Finds - FoxNews.com


 
Does that include damages done by illegals who are gang members?

Does that include money taken away from services to feed poor Americans that now must go to give legal assitance to illegal immigrants and their children? 

That bill skyrockets when you include money given by charities to help illegals that would have gone to poor Americans. 

What about all the not-for profits that specifically help illegals on their quest for amnesty. They don't pay taxes but use service that are paid for by American taxpayers.

$428 billion is far too little.


----------



## Angelhair

_This country would see a positive and not a negative if many illegals would leave.  That is the honest truth.  Why then were things so much better BEFORE they came?_


----------



## CRStar

They are nothing but parasites. They are ALL criminals. First charge...illegal...against the law and that makes them a criminal element. AWWWWWW shame, they came here for a better life. All they are, are parasites. These people are more protected than the bald eagle. No where, but no where in the Constitution does it say that if you're illegal and you squirt a baby (anchor baby) are you or the baby entitled to stay in OUR country. All you see in LA are these breeding machines with many children around them and pushing strollers with larvae inside them Yeah..larvae, because these parasites breed like flies.


----------



## brokenarrow

CRStar said:


> They are nothing but parasites. They are ALL criminals. First charge...illegal...against the law and that makes them a criminal element. AWWWWWW shame, they came here for a better life. All they are, are parasites. These people are more protected than the bald eagle. No where, but no where in the Constitution does it say that if you're illegal and you squirt a baby (anchor baby) are you or the baby entitled to stay in OUR country. All you see in LA are these breeding machines with many children around them and pushing strollers with larvae inside them Yeah..larvae, because these parasites breed like flies.


 
No one is stopping Washington from handing the bill to Mexico. That's part of the solution.


----------



## editec

That's odd...I seem to remember the GOP supporting amnesty for illegals.

Why don't YOU remember that, too LIL?

Don't you remember that?

No?

Why not?


----------



## LilOlLady

LilOlLady said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think we should take em to the border and catapult them over the fence.
> 
> Oh, that's right. Big Sister doesn't need a fence. She's been kicking them out in record numbers, according to her.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Patriotic Millionaires want to pay more taxes, You are just not listening.*
Click to expand...



*WTF has that got to do with anything?:*confused:


----------



## LilOlLady

LilOlLady said:


> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The latest on California politics and government
> April 21, 2011
> California's criminal alien population rises*
> 
> The number of criminal aliens incarcerated in California *rose to 102,795 in 2009*, a *17 percent increase since 2003*, federal auditors reported Thursday.
> 
> *This isn't cheap.* Nationwide, the Government Accountability Office reports, it costs well over *$1.1 billion a year *for states to imprison criminal aliens -- those who committed a crime after entering the United States illegally. California, moreover, is more expensive than other states. GAO auditors estimated *California spends $34,000 to incarcerate a criminal alien for one year*; *in Texas, it's only $12,000*.
> 
> The audit, requested by Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-San Jose, will provide ammunition for states' perennial effort to secure *more federal reimbursement dollars*.
> 
> More than one in four of the illegal immigrants imprisoned in California are behind bars for *drug offenses*. Many are also *repeat offenders*. GAO auditors say that, based on a survey, criminal alien inmates have been arrested an average of seven different times.
> 
> Capitol Alert: California's criminal alien population rises
> 
> 
> *
> 
> This is one of the many problems that come with illegal immigration. Why don't we just deport them and their families and close the border so they cannot come back and let Mexico deal with them. Instead of letting them out after their serve their time and they go home to family and continure their criminal activity until the next time.
> 
> How do they intend to deal with the ciminals when considering path to citizenship or amnesty? Criminals are not going to come out of the shadows. We have to deport all 20 million of them, close the border and open an Ellis Island on the border with one entrance in and one going out.
> This is way to solve the immigration problem and balance the budget at the same time.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many threads do you think you need to create* apologizing *for criminals?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you even read?
> What part of "*deport them" *and "*close the border*" and *"stop housing them*" do you not understand?
Click to expand...

*I don't think I am apologizing for criminals*.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Call for compassion to illegal immigrants*
By Stefanie Brock 
Jan 29, 2011


The proposed Senate Bill 6, which would make it *criminal to be an illegal immigrant *in this state, *weighs extremely heavy on my heart and soul*
Call for compassion to illegal immigrants | Op-Ed | Kentucky.com

In resonse to her article;

it is people like Stefanie Brock that encourage illegal immigrant and believe each American should own atleast one.

Try living in East L.A. and the Barrio of any city and you will have a change of heart ASAP.

Hey, go live with them if it is that satisfying.


Racial profiling and threatening laws have always worked in apprehending criminals.  The intended consequences are to get them to leave. Any way necessary.


Bad answer. Cost of mandatory E-Verify. If they cannot work they will self deport.


Good answer. 90% of all our drugs come across the southern border carried by illegal aliens and distributed by illegal aliens.

What does obesity, cigarette abuse and lung cancer got to do with enforcing our immigration laws?


Now catching criminals with racial profiling is eerily reminiscent of Hitler&#8217;s regime? If a black man robs a bank, he will be caught quicker knowing he is black.


Illegal aliens &#8220;work horses?&#8221; &#8220;Tobacco and horse industries?&#8221; They get paid for the work they do and no one forces them to come here and work.  We do not round up illegal aliens and kill them. There are considered a &#8220;protected species&#8221; by our government.


Compassion for Americans would be to send the home. Illegal aliens have taken away many lives of Americans and taken away their American dreams by taking jobs and lowering wages and standard of living. Illegal immigration is not about race. Fact is majority of illegal aliens are Hispanic. 


Enforcement of our immigration laws and securing the border. Which has not be serious applied.


OMG lady, you need your face slapped. Americans are lining up of low skilled and low wage jobs left when illegal aliens are deported. 7.5 million would be available for Americans if they left. And they would be taken by the 14 million unemployed Americans. My dentist works part time at Wal-Mart to supplement his business. 

 And they love the welfare, housing and the free healthcare and education and stupids like you.
 . 

Some have been here longer and has not applied for citizenship and don&#8217;t want citizenship.



A better life is no excuse for committing a crime. Poverty no excuse to break the law. If it was we would have no criminals in prison. Many come because crime is a more lucrative business here than in Mexico. Mexico is not our problem. It is a Mexican&#8217;s problem and it is only them that can make Mexico better. Tucking tail and running is for cowards. Mexico is not dependent on corn.
What about the drug cartels growing marijuana in our national parks? 

Immigrants is not the problem. Illegal immigrants is. We are all immigrants. You are suggesting we all own an &#8220;immigrant.&#8221; So fucking satisfying. I guess you would be grateful since they provide work for you.

 Illegal aliens are killing 15 Americans a day and raping 8 children, taking jobs lower wages, committing crimes, raping the education, healthcare, legal system and lowering the standard of living of Americans. We cannot save the world. Stepanie is employed because of American tax payers.


----------



## Momanohedhunter




----------



## LilOlLady

Illegal immigration sucking us lifeless.



There is absolutely nothing positive about illegal immigration. If it was so good for us it would be good for Mexico and if we deal with Mexicos problems they will not. They are low wage earners and pay very little in taxes if any and bringing them out of the shadows, whatever the hell that means, do not mean they will pay more taxes. They work hard and steal as hard from their employers. Put in your order and you can get anything you want. They are distributing the drugs they bring across the border for drug cartels. They are committing welfare fraud. They are using the system to the fullest. Education, healthcare, welfare, food stamps, public housing and the legal system. Illegal immigration is not the same as immigration was a hundred years ago when immigrants ask what can I do for this country and not what this country can do for me. Illegal aliens are sucking the life out of what immigrants built.

If Mexico wanted to stop the drug cartels, they would close the border themselves. Instead they want us to deal with their drug cartel problem and want us to deal with their jobless and poverty problem. Mexico is more than economically capable to provide jobs and education for its people and capable of closing the border. If drug cartels cannot get their drugs across the border they will leave the border. If Mexico provided education and jobs for its people they would not come here.

Illegal aliens are lazy. They dont want to work as hard as advocates say they do. They work and they receive all the benefits they can get for their anchor babies and for themselves at the expense of the American tax payers. 

They work hard but they dont want to work in the hot dirty back breaking fields any more than Americans do. They do not cross the border and line up to work in lettuce fields. They go straight to the inner cities and take jobs from unskilled and uneducated Americans. Yes, we do have unskilled and uneducated Americans. They line up to take the jobs that immigration raids have released.



Enforce our immigration laws and secure the border and give us our country back and our jobs. H-2A visas give farmers all the workers the need. And stop giving Mexico tax payers hard earned money to fight drug cartels. It is a waste because Mexicos government is as corrupt as drug cartels.


----------



## Angelhair

_Could it be that what they have been saying all this time America WILL be destroyed from within???And the man in office is here to help it along?_


----------



## LilOlLady

Angelhair said:


> _Could it be that what they have been saying all this time America WILL be destroyed from within???And the man in office is here to help it along?_



Obama is not responsible for 20 million illegal aliens being in this country and deporting them and securing the border. This has been in the making long before Obama was born. If American is destroyed it will be because of more the illgal immigration.

We will still be having a problem with illegal immigration long after Obama is gone. We can do little more than get past the next years and Obama is home free of the problem. He will pass it on. No one can get us to the point of enforcement and a secured border. BUT give credit to Obama for doing more in enforcemen, depotation and securing the border than ever before. Still that is not enough. 

Obama is not really interested in Comprehensive Immigration Reform. IF he was it would have happen before now. Obama is not that stupid but he is interested in getting re elected and he has to make an effort but he knows the consequences and he is not willing to take that chance.

Watch and listen.


----------



## Gunny

LilOlLady said:


> Angelhair said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Could it be that what they have been saying all this time America WILL be destroyed from within???And the man in office is here to help it along?_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obama is not responsible for 20 million illegal aliens being in this country and deporting them and securing the border. This has been in the making long before Obama was born. If American is destroyed it will be because of more the illgal immigration.
> 
> We will still be having a problem with illegal immigration long after Obama is gone. We can do little more than get past the next years and Obama is home free of the problem. He will pass it on. No one can get us to the point of enforcement and a secured border. BUT give credit to Obama for doing more in enforcemen, depotation and securing the border than ever before. Still that is not enough.
> 
> Obama is not really interested in Comprehensive Immigration Reform. IF he was it would have happen before now. Obama is not that stupid but he is interested in getting re elected and he has to make an effort but he knows the consequences and he is not willing to take that chance.
> 
> Watch and listen.
Click to expand...


You really should get off your rant on this topic.  Illegals are a BIG part of the problem in this nation.  Period.  You are so in denial it's pathetic.


----------



## Harry Dresden

LilOlLady said:


> *Illegal aliens are lazy*. They don&#8217;t want to work as hard as advocates say they do.
> They work hard but they don&#8217;t want to work in the hot dirty back breaking fields any more than Americans do. They do not cross the border and line up to work in lettuce fields. They go straight to the inner cities and take jobs from unskilled and uneducated Americans. Yes, we do have unskilled and uneducated Americans. They line up to take the jobs that immigration raids have released.



you dont know very many Illegals do you?.....and if you say you do im going to call you a fucking liar.....because if you did you would not be saying what your saying here......i live around a lot of these guys and if your lazy you dont work all fucking day long for shit wages doing 2-3 jobs.....geezus i know some American kids who when told to get a job.....cant believe you actually asked them that.....Illegals may be a lot of things but the great majority of them....AINT LAZY....


----------



## Flopper

LilOlLady said:


> Illegal immigration sucking us lifeless.
> 
> There is absolutely nothing positive about illegal immigration.



It's positive for the farmers and other employers who can keep their labor cost down by hiring them.  It's positive for politicians who get elected promising deportation or integration into society. It's positive for the INS and Boarder Patrol who would not have jobs without illegal immigrants.  Finally, it's positive for thousands of bloggers, that have nothing better to do than to write posts expressing their opinion.


----------



## LilOlLady

Gunny said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelhair said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Could it be that what they have been saying all this time America WILL be destroyed from within???And the man in office is here to help it along?_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obama is not responsible for 20 million illegal aliens being in this country and deporting them and securing the border. This has been in the making long before Obama was born. If American is destroyed it will be because of more than illgal immigration.
> 
> We will still be having a problem with illegal immigration long after Obama is gone. We can do little more than get past the next years and Obama is home free of the problem. He will pass it on. No one can get us to the point of *enforcement and a secured border*. BUT give credit to Obama for doing more in *enforcemen, depotation and securing the border *than ever before. *Still that is not enough*.
> 
> Obama is not really interested in Comprehensive Immigration Reform. IF he was it would have happen before now. Obama is not that stupid but he is interested in getting re elected and he has to make an effort but he knows the consequences and he is not willing to take that chance.
> 
> Watch and listen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You really should get off your rant on this topic.  Illegals are a BIG part of the problem in this nation.  Period.  You are so in* denial *it's pathetic.
Click to expand...



Can you fucking read? Illegal is a BIG part of the problem in this nation. And NO ONE knows better than I that is is a problem and the fix is *enforcement and border security*.  In denial of WHAT? 
What the fuck do you think I have been RANTING about?
You really scare me.


----------



## LilOlLady

Harry Dresden said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Illegal aliens are lazy*. They dont want to work as hard as advocates say they do.
> They work hard but they dont want to work in the hot dirty back breaking fields any more than Americans do. They do not cross the border and line up to work in lettuce fields. They go straight to the inner cities and take jobs from unskilled and uneducated Americans. Yes, we do have unskilled and uneducated Americans. They line up to take the jobs that immigration raids have released.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you dont know very many Illegals do you?.....and if you say you do im going to call you a fucking liar.....because if you did you would not be saying what your saying here......i live around a lot of these guys and if your lazy you dont work all fucking day long for shit wages doing 2-3 jobs.....geezus i know some American kids who when told to get a job.....cant believe you actually asked them that.....Illegals may be a lot of things but the great majority of them....AINT LAZY....
Click to expand...


I grew up in Pinal County Arizona. My grandson just married an illegal alien. Most of my friends are illegal aliens. $20 an hour for a maid is not shit wages. American children use to deliver paper, cut lawns, flip burgers and stock in walmart but now those jobs are taken by illegal aliens. American will do anything for a fair wages and no one force illegal aliens to come here. They receive more in welfare then they pay in taxes. Lazy is taking a siesta in the middle of the day.
American children are taught to work at a very early age and americans are not afraid of hard dirty work. It took a lot of hard dirty work to build this country. 
There are 20 milliion illegals in this country and only 2% work on farms. They come here because they don't want to do the hard dirty work on the farms in Mexico.
If the were not so lazy the would stay in Mexico and work hard to make Mexico better for all Mexicans and not tuck their tails and run away looking for freebies and haveing lots of anchor babies for welfare and fraud.


----------



## LilOlLady

Flopper said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal immigration sucking us lifeless.
> 
> There is absolutely nothing positive about illegal immigration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's positive for the farmers and other employers who can keep their labor cost down by hiring them.  It's positive for politicians who get elected promising deportation or integration into society. It's positive for the INS and Boarder Patrol who would not have jobs without illegal immigrants.  Finally, it's positive for thousands of bloggers, that have nothing better to do than to write posts expressing their opinion.
Click to expand...


What do you think this does to the unskilled american who needs those jobs even if they are low wage? INS and border patrols would take those jobs that would be vacant if illegals were deported. Every business that has been raided has been replace with american lined up for those jobs. who the hell do you think had those jobs before there were 20 million illegal in this country. INS and border patrols has alway had jobs. IF illegal were gone they would still be stopping drugs at the border.
DUH? Didn't you just express your opinion? At least I have an opinion. Have not seen one serious one from you. Except ranting and raving about other's post.
*
As i said there absolutely nothing positive about illegal immigration. *


----------



## LilOlLady

Pimps and prostitutes has a more positive effect on our economy than illegal aliens. Especially those here in Nevada are a big part of our economy. They makes lots of money, pay lots of taxes and buy a lot of expensive products. And they don't drain the system. They pay their way. Illegal immigraitionis costing us more then they contribute to this country. I don't believe there are any illegal aliens working in Nevada brothels.

*Prostitution pumps millions into Nevada's economy *
by Lois Gormley, Outpost staff 

Prostitution is good for Nevada's economy


----------



## brokenarrow

LilOlLady said:


> [
> I grew up in Pinal County Arizona. My grandson just married an illegal alien. Most of my friends are illegal aliens. $20 an hour for a maid is not shit wages. American children use to deliver paper, cut lawns, flip burgers and stock in walmart but now those jobs are taken by illegal aliens. American will do anything for a fair wages and no one force illegal aliens to come here. They receive more in welfare then they pay in taxes. Lazy is taking a siesta in the middle of the day.
> American children are taught to work at a very early age and americans are not afraid of hard dirty work. It took a lot of hard dirty work to build this country.
> There are 20 milliion illegals in this country and only 2% work on farms. They come here because they don't want to do the hard dirty work on the farms in Mexico.
> If the were not so lazy the would stay in Mexico and work hard to make Mexico better for all Mexicans and not tuck their tails and run away looking for freebies and haveing lots of anchor babies for welfare and fraud.


 


> Most of my friends are illegal aliens.


I don't get it? Why would you make friends with illegals? 



> American children are taught to work at a very early age and americans are not afraid of hard dirty work.


But they are afraid to defend their country against illegals who invade. No one is stopping them. THAT is why illegals know that they can push Americans around once they get here. They have all the support they need to steal everything generations of Americans fought for. THAT is the problem. Not one illegal would be here if they knew they would get their head blown off and American politicians wouldn't lift a finger to help illegals.

Illegals don't give a damn about our laws but they understand a gun in the kisser. That is a universal language.


----------



## Harry Dresden

LilOlLady said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Illegal aliens are lazy*. They dont want to work as hard as advocates say they do.
> They work hard but they dont want to work in the hot dirty back breaking fields any more than Americans do. They do not cross the border and line up to work in lettuce fields. They go straight to the inner cities and take jobs from unskilled and uneducated Americans. Yes, we do have unskilled and uneducated Americans. They line up to take the jobs that immigration raids have released.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you dont know very many Illegals do you?.....and if you say you do im going to call you a fucking liar.....because if you did you would not be saying what your saying here......i live around a lot of these guys and if your lazy you dont work all fucking day long for shit wages doing 2-3 jobs.....geezus i know some American kids who when told to get a job.....cant believe you actually asked them that.....Illegals may be a lot of things but the great majority of them....AINT LAZY....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I grew up in Pinal County Arizona. My grandson just married an illegal alien. Most of my friends are illegal aliens. $20 an hour for a maid is not shit wages. American children use to deliver paper, cut lawns, flip burgers and stock in walmart but now those jobs are taken by illegal aliens. American will do anything for a fair wages and no one force illegal aliens to come here. They receive more in welfare then they pay in taxes. Lazy is taking a siesta in the middle of the day.
> American children are taught to work at a very early age and americans are not afraid of hard dirty work. It took a lot of hard dirty work to build this country.
> There are 20 milliion illegals in this country and only 2% work on farms. They come here because they don't want to do the hard dirty work on the farms in Mexico.
> If the were not so lazy the would stay in Mexico and work hard to make Mexico better for all Mexicans and not tuck their tails and run away looking for freebies and haveing lots of anchor babies for welfare and fraud.
Click to expand...


one reason they dont stay in Mexico is because of the drug violence down there....and you would consider getting out of there too if you lived there.....and you know people who take siestas in the middle of the day?....so they dont want to do the dirty work on farms in Mexico,so that makes them Lazy...but they come here and do the dirty work on the farms here....but they are still considered Lazy by you....great logic.....like i said before....Illegals might be a lot of things....but the great majority are not lazy.....and if "most" of your friends are illegals as you say....and you feel this way about them.....then why are they your friends?.......you dont have disdain for a group of people....and then claim..."most" of my friends are from this group.....i say your full of shit......


----------



## ROBESPIERRE

American have NO right to complain about illegals in their country. Why? Because they refuse to allow their government to issue real, verifyable IDs to its citizens. That is why.

America has a long tradition of open borders and it still has open borders today. There is no immigration policy. And this is not just about poor share-croppers out of Central America crossing the Mexican border into Texas, Arizona, California and New Mexico. 

The USA if chuck full of Illegals out of every concievable place on the planet, most of whom came to the US on tourist visas or student visas and simply stayed. Does anybody ever complain about the tens-of-thousads of millionaire Illegals curantly living in the U.S.? Do you have any idea how many filthy rich Arabs, Iranians, Afgans, Vietnamise, Malasians, Nigerians etc etc currantly live without papers and without visas in the USA?

What about the Chinese?  They have been entering the USA Illegally for generations and nobody complains about them at all.  Why? Because they have a self-supporting system of integration. They never go on welfare. They have internal community suport systems, (Mafia Style), which have been in place for more than a hundred years. They even have their own Chinese language schools and Chinese herbal doctors.

Americans are continuously crying in their beer about "Illegal Immigration". 

 Well then DO something about !  ISSUE REAL LEGAL VERIFYABLE ID CARDS TO YOUR CITIZENS !  ("New World Order" Christians will start screaming).

How can you complain about the presence of illegals, taking away your jobs, running businesses without licences and burdening the welfare, medical and educational systems when you REFUSE to come up with a system that can verify who is a citizen and who is not ? ? ? ?

THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE AMERICA !​


----------



## brokenarrow

ROBESPIERRE said:


> What about the Chinese? They have been entering the USA Illegally for generations and nobody complains about them at all. Why? Because they have a self-supporting system of integration. They never go on welfare. They have internal community suport systems, (Mafia Style), which have been in place for more than a hundred years. They even have their own Chinese language schools and Chinese herbal doctors.
> 
> !


 
And they all live in the back of those Chop-Suey joints so no one ever sees them walking around on the street.


----------



## LilOlLady

ROBESPIERRE said:


> American have NO right to complain about illegals in their country. Why? Because they refuse to allow their government to issue real, verifyable IDs to its citizens. That is why.
> 
> America has a long tradition of open borders and it still has open borders today. There is no immigration policy. And this is not just about poor share-croppers out of Central America crossing the Mexican border into Texas, Arizona, California and New Mexico.
> 
> The USA if chuck full of Illegals out of every concievable place on the planet, most of whom came to the US on tourist visas or student visas and simply stayed. Does anybody ever complain about the tens-of-thousads of millionaire Illegals curantly living in the U.S.? Do you have any idea how many filthy rich Arabs, Iranians, Afgans, Vietnamise, Malasians, Nigerians etc etc currantly live without papers and without visas in the USA?
> 
> What about the Chinese?  They have been entering the USA Illegally for generations and nobody complains about them at all.  Why? Because they have a self-supporting system of integration. They never go on welfare. They have internal community suport systems, (Mafia Style), which have been in place for more than a hundred years. They even have their own Chinese language schools and Chinese herbal doctors.
> 
> Americans are continuously crying in their beer about "Illegal Immigration".
> 
> Well then DO something about !  ISSUE REAL LEGAL VERIFYABLE ID CARDS TO YOUR CITIZENS !  ("New World Order" Christians will start screaming).
> 
> How can you complain about the presence of illegals, taking away your jobs, running businesses without licences and burdening the welfare, medical and educational systems when you REFUSE to come up with a system that can verify who is a citizen and who is not ? ? ? ?
> 
> THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE AMERICA !​



Most american have no problem with immigrant who enter legally and has something to offer beside sucking the nation for everything they can get. You are talking about a few wno oppose any kind of enforcement because of cheap labor for corporations and big campaign donations and cheap votes. Americans need to stand up and demand enforcement and border security.


----------



## LilOlLady

Harry Dresden said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> you dont know very many Illegals do you?.....and if you say you do im going to call you a fucking liar.....because if you did you would not be saying what your saying here......i live around a lot of these guys and if your lazy you dont work all fucking day long for shit wages doing 2-3 jobs.....geezus i know some American kids who when told to get a job.....cant believe you actually asked them that.....Illegals may be a lot of things but the great majority of them....AINT LAZY....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grew up in Pinal County Arizona. My grandson just married an illegal alien. Most of my friends are illegal aliens. $20 an hour for a maid is not shit wages. American children use to deliver paper, cut lawns, flip burgers and stock in walmart but now those jobs are taken by illegal aliens. American will do anything for a fair wages and no one force illegal aliens to come here. They receive more in welfare then they pay in taxes. Lazy is taking a siesta in the middle of the day.
> American children are taught to work at a very early age and americans are not afraid of hard dirty work. It took a lot of hard dirty work to build this country.
> There are 20 milliion illegals in this country and only 2% work on farms. They come here because they don't want to do the hard dirty work on the farms in Mexico.
> If the were not so lazy the would stay in Mexico and work hard to make Mexico better for all Mexicans and not tuck their tails and run away looking for freebies and haveing lots of anchor babies for welfare and fraud.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> one reason they dont stay in Mexico is because of the drug violence down there....and you would consider getting out of there too if you lived there.....and you know people who take siestas in the middle of the day?....so they dont want to do the dirty work on farms in Mexico,so that makes them Lazy...but *the*y come here and do the dirty work on the farms here....but they are still considered Lazy by you....great logic.....like i said before....Illegals might be a lot of things....but the great majority are not lazy.....and if "most" of your friends are illegals as you say....and you feel this way about them.....then why are they your friends?.......you dont have disdain for a group of people....and then claim..."most" of my friends are from this group.....i say your full of shit......
Click to expand...


They is only 2% of the illegal aliens workforce. My friend know they broke the law and understand how I feel about illegal immigration and it is not something we talk about all the time. I have even goe to court with some to get them to stay in the country. I went to court with my grandson's wife to get here legal status. I disagree with lots of my friends on different issues.


----------



## Flopper

LilOlLady said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal immigration sucking us lifeless.
> 
> There is absolutely nothing positive about illegal immigration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's positive for the farmers and other employers who can keep their labor cost down by hiring them.  It's positive for politicians who get elected promising deportation or integration into society. It's positive for the INS and Boarder Patrol who would not have jobs without illegal immigrants.  Finally, it's positive for thousands of bloggers, that have nothing better to do than to write posts expressing their opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do you think this does to the unskilled american who needs those jobs even if they are low wage? INS and border patrols would take those jobs that would be vacant if illegals were deported. Every business that has been raided has been replace with american lined up for those jobs. who the hell do you think had those jobs before there were 20 million illegal in this country. INS and border patrols has alway had jobs. IF illegal were gone they would still be stopping drugs at the border.
> DUH? Didn't you just express your opinion? At least I have an opinion. Have not seen one serious one from you. Except ranting and raving about other's post.
> *
> As i said there absolutely nothing positive about illegal immigration. *
Click to expand...

I have expressed my opinion on this subject in dozens of other threads on this topic and I am certainly not going to do it again.  When you have something new to add, I will comment but until then,
Adios Amigo


----------



## ROBESPIERRE

[/QUOTE]Most american have no problem with immigrant who enter legally and has something to offer beside sucking the nation for everything they can get. You are talking about a few wno oppose any kind of enforcement because of cheap labor for corporations and big campaign donations and cheap votes. Americans need to stand up and demand enforcement and border security.[/QUOTE]

You cannot lay mine-fields around the country.  There is no way for Immigration officials to indentify Illegals already in the country if the country has no system of idenifying who is legal and who is not. Without foolproof ID's for its legal residents, any Illegal can claim he is a legal/citizen and there is no practical way to deport them. All they do is borrow somebody's birth record or Social Security Number. The USA has no system of legal picture ID's. And any illegal can obtain a US Passport by using a phoney birth cirtificate and an illegally obtained state ID card. It is common practice. 

In order to enforce immigration, you must have a legal method of ID-ing the illegal, and this is what patriotic Americans need to start demanding of their government. If the US Government refuses, Private Industry must step up to the plate and start garateeing citizens true identifications.


----------



## Harry Dresden

LilOlLady said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> I grew up in Pinal County Arizona. My grandson just married an illegal alien. Most of my friends are illegal aliens. $20 an hour for a maid is not shit wages. American children use to deliver paper, cut lawns, flip burgers and stock in walmart but now those jobs are taken by illegal aliens. American will do anything for a fair wages and no one force illegal aliens to come here. They receive more in welfare then they pay in taxes. Lazy is taking a siesta in the middle of the day.
> American children are taught to work at a very early age and americans are not afraid of hard dirty work. It took a lot of hard dirty work to build this country.
> There are 20 milliion illegals in this country and only 2% work on farms. They come here because they don't want to do the hard dirty work on the farms in Mexico.
> If the were not so lazy the would stay in Mexico and work hard to make Mexico better for all Mexicans and not tuck their tails and run away looking for freebies and haveing lots of anchor babies for welfare and fraud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> one reason they dont stay in Mexico is because of the drug violence down there....and you would consider getting out of there too if you lived there.....and you know people who take siestas in the middle of the day?....so they dont want to do the dirty work on farms in Mexico,so that makes them Lazy...but *the*y come here and do the dirty work on the farms here....but they are still considered Lazy by you....great logic.....like i said before....Illegals might be a lot of things....but the great majority are not lazy.....and if "most" of your friends are illegals as you say....and you feel this way about them.....then why are they your friends?.......you dont have disdain for a group of people....and then claim..."most" of my friends are from this group.....i say your full of shit......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They is only 2% of the illegal aliens workforce. My friend know they broke the law and understand how I feel about illegal immigration and it is not something we talk about all the time. I have even goe to court with some to get them to stay in the country. I went to court with my grandson's wife to get here legal status. I disagree with lots of my friends on different issues.
Click to expand...


hey Lady look.....most of your threads are about the Horrors of Illegal Immigration....you dont have a hell of a lot of nice things to say about them....BUT ...you say they make up most of my friends......yea....some friend you are.....like Flopper said....until you have something new or important to say....knock yourself out putting down your "friends"......your a little whacked out.....even Lost American made more sense than you....


----------



## brokenarrow

LilOlLady said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> I grew up in Pinal County Arizona. My grandson just married an illegal alien. Most of my friends are illegal aliens. $20 an hour for a maid is not shit wages. American children use to deliver paper, cut lawns, flip burgers and stock in walmart but now those jobs are taken by illegal aliens. American will do anything for a fair wages and no one force illegal aliens to come here. They receive more in welfare then they pay in taxes. Lazy is taking a siesta in the middle of the day.
> American children are taught to work at a very early age and americans are not afraid of hard dirty work. It took a lot of hard dirty work to build this country.
> There are 20 milliion illegals in this country and only 2% work on farms. They come here because they don't want to do the hard dirty work on the farms in Mexico.
> If the were not so lazy the would stay in Mexico and work hard to make Mexico better for all Mexicans and not tuck their tails and run away looking for freebies and haveing lots of anchor babies for welfare and fraud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> one reason they dont stay in Mexico is because of the drug violence down there....and you would consider getting out of there too if you lived there.....and you know people who take siestas in the middle of the day?....so they dont want to do the dirty work on farms in Mexico,so that makes them Lazy...but *the*y come here and do the dirty work on the farms here....but they are still considered Lazy by you....great logic.....like i said before....Illegals might be a lot of things....but the great majority are not lazy.....and if "most" of your friends are illegals as you say....and you feel this way about them.....then why are they your friends?.......you dont have disdain for a group of people....and then claim..."most" of my friends are from this group.....i say your full of shit......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They is only 2% of the illegal aliens workforce. My friend know they broke the law and understand how I feel about illegal immigration and it is not something we talk about all the time. I have even goe to court with some to get them to stay in the country. I went to court with my grandson's wife to get here legal status. I disagree with lots of my friends on different issues.
Click to expand...

 
You do understand that Latin America is ganging up on the United States and when the going gets tough, those you helped will stab you in the back in favor of their own. That is the LA RAZA mentality. It's LA RAZA against the world. Why do you think they wave those Mexican flags at the rallies? Because they want to be good Americans?


----------



## brokenarrow

> You cannot lay mine-fields around the country.


You can, but it is very expensive. Just ask North/South Korea.



> There is no way for Immigration officials to indentify Illegals already in the country if the country has no system of idenifying who is legal and who is not.


 
I remember having to take polygraph tests for a few of the jobs I had in the past. What ever happened to those guys? 



> Without foolproof ID's for its legal residents, any Illegal can claim he is a legal/citizen and there is no practical way to deport them.


 
Don't bother deporting. Send a bill to Mexico for every illegal Mexican now here. What are they going to say? They even brag that a Mexican who becomes an American is still a Mexican. Stop playing their games and make those countries pay up. You'll see a change almost immediately.



> All they do is borrow somebody's birth record or Social Security Number. The USA has no system of legal picture ID's. And any illegal can obtain a US Passport by using a phoney birth cirtificate and an illegally obtained state ID card. It is common practice.


 
We have so many departments. Start the US Department of Identification.
Unless you are willing to prove you are American and help aid that department in enforcement efforts, you are barred from receiving any aid whatsoever. If this was wartime, all those privacy rights would go right out the window. And this is war!



> In order to enforce immigration, you must have a legal method of ID-ing the illegal, and this is what patriotic Americans need to start demanding of their government. If the US Government refuses, Private Industry must step up to the plate and start garateeing citizens true identifications.


 
What private industry can you trust anymore. They have all been infilitrated by the very families of the people you want to keep out.


----------



## ROBESPIERRE

The USA does not have an immigration problem; it has an invasion problem.

There is no effective way to police the long and desolate border the US has with Mexico, (where most of the poor illegals cross), so the ONLY way you are going to get a grip on the situation is to go after those who are hiring illegals, renting to illegals and providing illegals with phoney or stolen IDs.

There is only ONE way to do this:  (1) Issue foolproof identification to all native born US Citizens and legal immigrants. (2) Require every employer to check IDs and show proof they have hired only legal residents. (3) Require every landlord to demand a copy of legal ID before they rent out property.

If there is no verifyable National Citizens ID Card, how can law enforcement even BEGIN to enforce the Immigration Laws?

*Without proper IDs the whole issue of "who is legal and who is not" is dead in the water!​*


----------



## brokenarrow

ROBESPIERRE said:


> The USA does not have an immigration problem; it has an invasion problem.
> 
> There is no effective way to police the long and desolate border the US has with Mexico, (where most of the poor illegals cross), so the ONLY way you are going to get a grip on the situation is to go after those who are hiring illegals, renting to illegals and providing illegals with phoney or stolen IDs.
> 
> There is only ONE way to do this: (1) Issue foolproof identification to all native born US Citizens and legal immigrants. (2) Require every employer to check IDs and show proof they have hired only legal residents. (3) Require every landlord to demand a copy of legal ID before they rent out property.
> 
> If there is no verifyable National Citizens ID Card, how can law enforcement even BEGIN to enforce the Immigration Laws?
> 
> 
> *Without proper IDs the whole issue of "who is legal and who is not" is dead in the water!​*


 








ID is real. Child is fake.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Obama assembles all-star cast to talk immigration*
Associated Press Jim Kuhnhenn,
Thu Apr 28, 

But immigration legislation that would provide a path to citizenship for millions of illegal immigrants has *stalled even when Democrats controlled both chambers *in 2009 and 2010. Its prospects are *even more remote now that Republicans control the House*.

Participants said Obama was pressed to do something about the record 393,000 illegal immigrants forced to leave the country last year, but Obama indicated that without congressional action *his hands were tied*.
Obama assembles all-star cast to talk immigration - Yahoo! News


*Does this sound like someone who want to provide a path to citizenship for million of illegal aliens? Obama is just putting on a show or effort that he knows would not have a chance in hell of passing at this time. BUT his effort could get him re-elected*.


----------



## brokenarrow

LilOlLady said:


> *Obama assembles all-star cast to talk immigration*
> Associated Press Jim Kuhnhenn,
> Thu Apr 28,
> 
> But immigration legislation that would provide a path to citizenship for millions of illegal immigrants has *stalled even when Democrats controlled both chambers *in 2009 and 2010. Its prospects are *even more remote now that Republicans control the House*.
> 
> Participants said Obama was pressed to do something about the record 393,000 illegal immigrants forced to leave the country last year, but Obama indicated that without congressional action *his hands were tied*.
> Obama assembles all-star cast to talk immigration - Yahoo! News
> 
> 
> *Does this sound like someone who want to provide a path to citizenship for million of illegal aliens? Obama is just putting on a show or effort that he knows would not have a chance in hell of passing at this time. BUT his effort could get him re-elected*.


 


> Obama. Escucha. Estamos en la lucha"


 
Yeah. They really want to be AMERICANS!!


----------



## Angelhair

_This all star cast are a bunch of pro-illegal creeps who think it's okay to break the laws of this country as long as it's 'their people' doing it.  _


----------



## LilOlLady

*OUR BROKEN IMMIGRATION SYSTEM.*

Our immigration system is broken because *20 million illegal aliens entered this country illegally ignoring and disrespecting our immigration laws *which our government has refused to enforce. We fix the broken system *not by allowing those who broke it to be rewarded with a green card by paying a fine*. If we do that we our *immigration system continue to be broken *and encourages *other to break it *because it send the message that if you *enter the country illegal *by ignoring and disrespecting our immigration law you will be allowed to *pay a fine and get a green card*. 

*Comprehensive Immigration Reform* do not fix the broken immigration system,* it expands it.* 20 million green cards today would* guarantee 20 million more in 20 years,* etc.

We can only fix the broken immigration system by tough love. *Deportation by Attrition *those who are here illegally with *mandatory E-Verify system and finger printed Social Security cards*. If they cannot work they will leave and they will not come. 

The *Dream Act is just a scheme leading to amnesty *because we if we legalize the children, *we are not going to deport their families*. Instant amnesty. The reason the children are here is of no fault of their own *The reason the children are here is because their parents chose to enter the country illegally breaking our immigration law and children cannot and should not be used as get out of jail cards or anchors*.

Democrats cannot get a* Comprehensive Immigration Reform bill *passed so they use the excuse that their children should be legalized because the *poor helpless innocent little babies *should not be punished because their parents broke the law. Using the *helpless children compassion humane card *to excuse illegal immigration.

*Unfortunately, children of criminals do pay a price for the sins of their parents *and illegal immigration is a crime, a federal crime, and that makes their parents criminals and should not be excused under no circumstances.

*Criminals who have children cannot pay a fine and get out of jail*. Why do we think we can have *one set of laws for one group of people and anther set for another group*?

*Poverty is no excuse to break the law.* I want a better life for my children but I did not break the law to achieve it. *I did it legally because of my children*. *Lead by example.*

Illegal immigration is *a broken security system *that need to be fixed. You fix the law *not by changing it but by enforcing it*. Jay walking is illegal, because if every one is crossing the street against the light, it will cause accidents and death. 

20 million illegal aliens are not all hard working law abiding people who only want to take care of their children. All children of illegal aliens are not working hard in school trying to get an education. *Our prison are full of illegal aliens who have committed crimes*. Gangs, drug dealers, etc.

The *Federal Immigration and Nationality Act *is a worthless piece of paper if we do not enforce it. Who gets to decide *which laws are to be enforced and which are not*?

Just because 20 million people broke our immigration laws *do not mean the law is broken and need to be fixed*.

*Criminals live in fear in the shadows because they broke the law. Dont break the law*.

*Racial profiling has long been used to  arrest criminals *and it the *most effective way to find illegal aliens *and deport them and it is legal under the Federal Immigration and Nationality Act. *Reasonable suspicions legalize racial profiling *in enforcing our immigration laws. I carry an identification that proves I am legal and every one in this country should and it is not a briefcase full of papers. *A green card is the size of a drivers license. *
*Our immigration system is not broken* (it is being broken) and* if it is not broken, dont fix it*.


----------



## JBeukema

Do you ever think about anything else?


----------



## brokenarrow

Angelhair said:


> _This all star cast are a bunch of pro-illegal creeps who think it's okay to break the laws of this country as long as it's 'their people' doing it. _


 

The more people corrupted by drug use, the more people spending indiscriminately, the more people become the slaves of the wealthy.


----------



## editec

It's either boken, indicating that our Masters are _total _incompetents

_OR..._

It is working_ exactly as the MASTERS want it to work_ indicating that they're lying to us about their REAL AGENDA.

I'll leave it to you which of the above is more likely


----------



## Epsilon Delta

Maybe you can "fix" immigration...

...but you can never fix stupid. 

BA-DAM CHING!!!! 


p9sadu[sdo9ysdp[09sdysdp09asydadsp098yds9s8yas098da0ds98s


----------



## editec

Epsilon Delta said:


> Maybe you can "fix" immigration...
> 
> ...but you can never fix stupid.
> 
> BA-DAM CHING!!!!
> 
> 
> p9sadu[sdo9ysdp[09sdysdp09asydadsp098yds9s8yas098da0ds98s


 
Maybe the masters AREN'T stupid.

AFter all driving down the market value of labor is something that CAPITAL loves.


----------



## brokenarrow

editec said:


> Epsilon Delta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you can "fix" immigration...
> 
> ...but you can never fix stupid.
> 
> BA-DAM CHING!!!!
> 
> 
> p9sadu[sdo9ysdp[09sdysdp09asydadsp098yds9s8yas098da0ds98s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe the masters AREN'T stupid.
> 
> AFter all driving down the market value of labor is something that CAPITAL loves.
Click to expand...

 
And overpopulating the country worked really good for Mexico!


----------



## Epsilon Delta

editec said:


> Epsilon Delta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you can "fix" immigration...
> 
> ...but you can never fix stupid.
> 
> BA-DAM CHING!!!!
> 
> 
> p9sadu[sdo9ysdp[09sdysdp09asydadsp098yds9s8yas098da0ds98s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe the masters AREN'T stupid.
> 
> AFter all driving down the market value of labor is something that CAPITAL loves.
Click to expand...


No, I was only kidding, but I wasn't implying that it is the masters that are stupid. 

Illegal immigration isn't a black and white issue, and it's a bit more complicated than that. Illegal immigrants, being the very low-skilled bunch that they are, may drive down the value of some kinds of labor (ie, very low-skilled labor, not even having completed highschool), but thankfully for the US, the vast majority of its workforce is at least semi-skilled (most at least complete high school). 

Most of the roughly 10 million illegal immigrants (not 20 million, as the OP claims) basically work in jobs in which they're not quite in competition with American workers, which isn't the same as the usual "they do jobs Americans wouldn't do" line of argument. No such argument actually exists - of course Americans would do these jobs, for the right [read: a much, much higher] wage, but at the same, at a much, much higher wage those jobs probably wouldn't be in the United States at all. 

The real way that the Masters (or at least some masters) definitely benefit is by being able to simultaneously take advantage of the underground nature of illegal immigrant work (i.e. paying even less) while AT THE SAME TIME managing to siphon off political votes from the jingoist sectors of American society by appealing to ultra-nationalism, despite the fact that they themselves are engaging in this sort of thing. 

So what should be the real solution? The only real way to go about it is to first of all regularize (yes, that means to legalize/give amnesty/whatever) the current illegal immigrant population and get them to pay taxes and come out of the shadows (ie, so that they can actually report on crimes), and then increase guest-worker programs specifically for the type of sectors that _would_ be illegal immigrants (again, because these are low-skill sectors that in general are not competing with American workers) - these programs allow the government to encourage immigrants to go back after a certain period (if you actually think about it logically, most illegal immigrants are basically trapped in the United States for longer than they otherwise would be, because of the extreme dangers in attempting to come back). In fact, in almost every single survey of immigrants, in the US, in Canada, in Europe, and wherever, it is a stated fact for a sizable majority of immigrants (legal and illegal) to go back home. Furthermore, studies have shown that a large portion of returning emigrants to developing countries bring back a lot more capital which they can re-invest in their communities, creating virtuous cycles, reducing poverty, and then *BINGO* stemming the tide of migration from those places. 

But hey, that just sounds too complicated. We might as well just round them up, shoot 'em on the spot, or institute a police state all over the United States to hunt them down, and then spend hundreds of billions of dollars putting up a wall on the entire US-Mexico border, right? After all, might is always right!

[Note: this is a general response to the thread]


----------



## LilOlLady

*1886 AMNESTY A COMPLETE FAILURE*

The 1986 amnesty for 2.8 million illegal aliens led to the illegal immigration of 20 million more illegal aliens and over 500,000 anchor babies and 27% of prison inmates are illegal aliens.

The real victims of illegal immigration are the American tax payers. If it failed the first time why are they wanting  a repeat performance? If we had deported 2.8 million in 1896 we would not be thinking of another amnesty in 2011 for 20 million illegals. Why is it that just because they are here we have to let them stay? 1986 amnesty proves amnesty to not fix the illegal immigration problem. Call it a path to citizenship with a fine and it still will not fix  illegal immigration. If we had fixed it the first time we would not have to do a do over. Lets learn from our mistakes because if we dont we tend to make them over and over.

1986 amnesty for 2.8 million illegal aliens are still costing us billions on top of the billions 20 million are costing us now.

They will only have to pay a fine and learn English if they want to become U.S. citizens and many will not. Just like some who were given amnesty in 1986 have not learned English. I meet lot of elderly illegal aliens who cannot speak English and have not applied for U.S. citizenship and is collecting SSI because they did not pay into Social Security. 

*1986 was a costly mistake we cannot afford to repeat.*


----------



## LilOlLady

JBeukema said:


> Do you ever think about anything else?



Yes and No.


----------



## LilOlLady

Epsilon Delta said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Epsilon Delta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you can "fix" immigration...
> 
> ...but you can never fix stupid.
> 
> BA-DAM CHING!!!!
> 
> 
> p9sadu[sdo9ysdp[09sdysdp09asydadsp098yds9s8yas098da0ds98s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe the masters AREN'T stupid.
> 
> AFter all driving down the market value of labor is something that CAPITAL loves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I was only kidding, but I wasn't implying that it is the masters that are stupid.
> 
> Illegal immigration isn't a black and white issue, and it's a bit more complicated than that. Illegal immigrants, being the very low-skilled bunch that they are, may drive down the value of some kinds of labor (ie, very low-skilled labor, not even having completed highschool), but thankfully for the US, the vast majority of its workforce is at least semi-skilled (most at least complete high school).
> [Note: this is a general response to the thread]
Click to expand...


*Not even near. We have more unskilled worker than ever.*
"Since 1970, immigration has *increased the number of unskilled job applicants *faster than the number of skilled job applicants.
High Immigration Harms Many American Workers | NumbersUSA - For Lower Immigration Levels

*U.S. Workers Crowding Out Immigrant Laborers for Unskilled Jobs* 
"*Everybody is coming to look for work*," says Rene Jemio, outreach coordinator for the hiring hall. *"It's not just your average immigrant anymore; it's African-Americans and whites, too."*For the first time in a decade, *unskilled immigrants are competing with Americans for work.* And evidence is emerging that tens of thousands of Hispanic immigrants are withdrawing from the labor market as U.S. workers crowd them out of potential jobs. At least some of the foreigners are returning home.
U.S. Workers Crowding Out Immigrant Laborers for Unskilled Jobs


----------



## brokenarrow

LilOlLady said:


> *1886 AMNESTY A COMPLETE FAILURE*
> 
> The 1986 amnesty for 2.8 million illegal aliens led to the illegal immigration of 20 million more illegal aliens and over 500,000 anchor babies and 27% of prison inmates are illegal aliens.
> 
> The real victims of illegal immigration are the American tax payers. If it failed the first time why are they wanting a repeat performance? If we had deported 2.8 million in 1896 we would not be thinking of another amnesty in 2011 for 20 million illegals. Why is it that just because they are here we have to let them stay? 1986 amnesty proves amnesty to not fix the illegal immigration problem. Call it a &#8220;path to citizenship with a fine&#8221; and it still will not fix illegal immigration. If we had fixed it the first time we would not have to do a &#8220;do over.&#8221; Lets learn from our mistakes because if we don&#8217;t we tend to make them over and over.
> 
> 1986 amnesty for 2.8 million illegal aliens are still costing us billions on top of the billions 20 million are costing us now.
> 
> They will only have to pay a fine and learn English if they want to become U.S. citizens and many will not. Just like some who were given amnesty in 1986 have not learned English. I meet lot of elderly illegal aliens who cannot speak English and have not applied for U.S. citizenship and is collecting SSI because they did not pay into Social Security.
> 
> *1986 was a costly mistake we cannot afford to repeat.*


 
Aren't the Mexican WAY past their quota for having diversity in the US? They are less than 2% of the world's population. How can LA RAZA justify the amount already here to all US Americans?


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

> The 1986 amnesty for 2.8 million illegal aliens led to the illegal immigration of 20 million more illegal aliens and over 500,000 anchor babies and 27% of prison inmates are illegal aliens.
> 
> The real victims of illegal immigration are the American tax payers. If it failed the first time why are they wanting a repeat performance? If we had deported 2.8 million in 1896 we would not be thinking of another amnesty in 2011 for 20 million illegals. Why is it that just because they are here we have to let them stay? 1986 amnesty proves amnesty to not fix the illegal immigration problem. Call it a path to citizenship with a fine and it still will not fix illegal immigration. If we had fixed it the first time we would not have to do a do over. Lets learn from our mistakes because if we dont we tend to make them over and over.
> 
> 1986 amnesty for 2.8 million illegal aliens are still costing us billions on top of the billions 20 million are costing us now.
> 
> They will only have to pay a fine and learn English if they want to become U.S. citizens and many will not. Just like some who were given amnesty in 1986 have not learned English. I meet lot of elderly illegal aliens who cannot speak English and have not applied for U.S. citizenship and is collecting SSI because they did not pay into Social Security.


So you solution is what? Suspend habeas, the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendments, round everyone up in trains and trucks, and send them all south to the border?


----------



## brokenarrow

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> [So you solution is what? Suspend habeas, the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendments, round everyone up in trains and trucks, and send them all south to the border?


 
If only Adolph were here to help us!


----------



## LilOlLady

*Great Walls of the World

The Great Gringo Wall*
*youre not a real Mexican if you havent climbed the Great Gringo Wall.*

Kerfuffles :: Great Walls of the World :: May :: 2006


*The fence on the border is not a wall, it is a pathetic excuse for a fence. We need to built a wall to keep those who from entering illegally and transporting dugs killing American and ruining other's lives. We have fences that have opeining that are not even gates. What we have built is a waste of money and time.
We need something like the Berlin wall which was said to be unbreachable.*


----------



## LilOlLady

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> The 1986 amnesty for 2.8 million illegal aliens led to the illegal immigration of 20 million more illegal aliens and over 500,000 anchor babies and 27% of prison inmates are illegal aliens.
> 
> The real victims of illegal immigration are the American tax payers. If it failed the first time why are they wanting a repeat performance? If we had deported 2.8 million in 1896 we would not be thinking of another amnesty in 2011 for 20 million illegals. Why is it that just because they are here we have to let them stay? 1986 amnesty proves amnesty to not fix the illegal immigration problem. Call it a &#8220;path to citizenship with a fine&#8221; and it still will not fix illegal immigration. If we had fixed it the first time we would not have to do a &#8220;do over.&#8221; Lets learn from our mistakes because if we don&#8217;t we tend to make them over and over.
> 
> 1986 amnesty for 2.8 million illegal aliens are still costing us billions on top of the billions 20 million are costing us now.
> 
> They will only have to pay a fine and learn English if they want to become U.S. citizens and many will not. Just like some who were given amnesty in 1986 have not learned English. I meet lot of elderly illegal aliens who cannot speak English and have not applied for U.S. citizenship and is collecting SSI because they did not pay into Social Security.
> 
> 
> 
> So you solution is what? Suspend habeas, the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendments, round everyone up in trains and trucks, and send them all south to the border?
Click to expand...


*You got that right.:*clap2: *Trains, plains, ships and donkeys*. Like the did in the 1954.



The effort began in California and Arizona, and coordinated *1075 Border Patrol agents*, along with *state and local police agencies*, to mount an aggressive crackdown. Tactics employed included going as far as* systematic police sweeps of Mexican-American neighborhoods*, and using *racial profiling *on random stops and ID checks of* "Mexican-looking" *people in a region with *many Native Americans and native Hispanics*. In some cases, illegal aliens were deported along with their American-born children.

Tens of thousands more were deported by *two chartered ships*: the Emancipation and the Mercurio. The ships ferried them from Port Isabel, Texas, to Veracruz, Mexico, more than 500 mi (800 km) to the south. Some were taken as far as 1000 mi (1600 km). Deportation by sea was ended after *seven deportees jumped overboard *from the Mercurio and drowned, provoking a mutiny that led to a public outcry in Mexico
Operation Wetback - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*Perfectly legally according to the Federal Immigration and Nationality Act.
Many African slave jumped ship also but did not stop the transporting slaves to the Americas.*


----------



## thinsey

Illegal immigration is miserable. I used to live 11 miles from the border. its where I grew up, in fact. Poor economic status, racism, and some really crappy education. I can tell you that while it may not be "the" reason our country is going down the pipes, it has certainly contributed alot. The attitude these stupid freaking illegals have about how they "deserve" all this free money pisses me off to no end. Lets build a huge wall and let mexico crumble under its strength.


----------



## LilOlLady

brokenarrow said:


> ROBESPIERRE said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about the Chinese? They have been entering the USA Illegally for generations and nobody complains about them at all. Why? Because they have a self-supporting system of integration. They never go on welfare. They have internal community suport systems, (Mafia Style), which have been in place for more than a hundred years. They even have their own Chinese language schools and Chinese herbal doctors.
> 
> !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And they all live in the back of those Chop-Suey joints so no one ever sees them walking around on the street.
Click to expand...


Ever seen Chinese in welfare lines? Chop Suey joints make a lot of money and generate lot of taxes. They pay their way and contribute. No problem from me. Plus I live in a part of the country where most illegal aliens are Latino. Nevada, Calif and Ariz. And they suck the system dry. Education, healthcare, public assistance and law enforcement.


----------



## LilOlLady

brokenarrow said:


> You cannot lay mine-fields around the country.
> 
> 
> 
> You can, but it is very expensive. Just ask North/South Korea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no way for Immigration officials to indentify Illegals already in the country if the country has no system of idenifying who is legal and who is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I remember having to take polygraph tests for a few of the jobs I had in the past. What ever happened to those guys?
> 
> 
> 
> Don't bother deporting. Send a bill to Mexico for every illegal Mexican now here. What are they going to say? They even brag that a Mexican who becomes an American is still a Mexican. Stop playing their games and make those countries pay up. You'll see a change almost immediately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All they do is borrow somebody's birth record or Social Security Number. The USA has no system of legal picture ID's. And any illegal can obtain a US Passport by using a phoney birth cirtificate and an illegally obtained state ID card. It is common practice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We have so many departments. Start the US Department of Identification.
> Unless you are willing to prove you are American and help aid that department in enforcement efforts, you are barred from receiving any aid whatsoever. If this was wartime, all those privacy rights would go right out the window. And this is war!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In order to enforce immigration, you must have a legal method of ID-ing the illegal, and this is what patriotic Americans need to start demanding of their government. If the US Government refuses, Private Industry must step up to the plate and start garateeing citizens true identifications.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What private industry can you trust anymore. They have all been infilitrated by the very families of the people you want to keep out.
Click to expand...


Mandatory E-Verify and finger print social security cards.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Ariz. amendment clears ranchers from illegal immigrant suit*
Apr 19, 2011 

TUCSON (KGUN9-TV) - *Two Arizona ranchers found guilty of abusing illegal immigrants *may now be off the hook, thanks to* a new law signed Tuesday by Governor Jan Brewer*.

*Roger Barnett and Casey Nethercott *were ordered to pay hefty fines for what they did in 2004. And in Nethercott's case, it *cost him his ranch near Douglas.*
Ariz. amendment clears ranchers from illegal immigrant suit - KGUN9 On Your Side, Tucson News, Weather & Sports


----------



## thinsey

i HATE illegal immigrants. They destroy everything.


----------



## ogibillm

LilOlLady said:


> *Ariz. amendment clears ranchers from illegal immigrant suit*
> Apr 19, 2011
> 
> TUCSON (KGUN9-TV) - *Two Arizona ranchers found guilty of abusing illegal immigrants *may now be off the hook, thanks to* a new law signed Tuesday by Governor Jan Brewer*.
> 
> *Roger Barnett and Casey Nethercott *were ordered to pay hefty fines for what they did in 2004. And in Nethercott's case, it *cost him his ranch near Douglas.*
> Ariz. amendment clears ranchers from illegal immigrant suit - KGUN9 On Your Side, Tucson News, Weather & Sports


how'd the rancher know they were illegals?


----------



## Epsilon Delta

LilOlLady said:


> *Not even near. We have more unskilled worker than ever.*



That is not entirely accurate according to your links. You had more people with the same level of skill as before, they just happened to now be looking for unskilled work due to the contraction of other employment due to the recession. In fact, as your second article pretty clearly states and you quote: "*For the first time in a decade, unskilled immigrants are competing with Americans for work.* And evidence is emerging that tens of thousands of Hispanic immigrants are withdrawing from the labor market as U.S. workers crowd them out of potential jobs. *At least some of the foreigners are returning home*." This actually implies that newly unemployed Americans are in fact decreasing wages for illegal immigrants, not the other way around, and all of it is due to the recessionary climate (with unemployment decreasing, this point is almost entirely moot - once the economy recovers illegal immigrants won't be competing with more skilled US labor than before).

As for your first article, first of all, comes from a website called NUMBERSUSA FOR LOWER IMMIGRATION NUMBERS. Not the most objective source on the matter, but whatever, it is quoting the Borjas study (which I would suggest anyone to read because he's pretty legit, despite the fact I disagree with him: Center for Immigration Studies). Now, you probably didn't read it, but his study is about _all_ immigrants. He claims at the very beginning actually, that it makes absolutely no difference whether they are legal and illegal, and is making a blanket statement that ANY immigration reduces wages: "_The reduction in earnings occurs *regardless of whether the immigrants are legal or illegal*, permanent or temporary. It is the presence of additional workers that reduces wages, not their legal status._"

Yet, even some of the most rabid illegal-immigrant haters disagree with this - I've seen the vast majority of them on this very site claiming how "Oh, immigrants who came before came to work! These dirty Mexicans aren't like the other past immigrants (read: my ancestors)! They're not like those people who wait in line to get into this country!" According to Borjas's analysis, ALL those immigrants, legal, illegal, Irish, Italian, etc would have had the same negative impact on native-born wages. Is this true? It may well be true, but Borjas entirely dismisses any of the macro-level benefits of immigration that the vast majority of economists going back to Adam Smith himself have explained. Like everything in economics, there's almost never any entirely positive thing, higher wages does not necessarily mean a good economy or even better living standards. 

Just look at the demographic problem occurring in Japan and Eastern Europe (and it would be occurring today in Western Europe, the US and Canada if there hadn't been large influxes of migrants to these areas): In 40 years, their population will have shrunk, retired people's percentage of the population will have surged, and the proportion of workers will be minute compared to today, wages may be very much higher, but the majority of this increase will either way go into taxes to support the retired population and there will be less work either way due to lower population AND much higher wages AND the potential for default or political/social instability if old-age support can't be maintained. 

Borjas puts some of this in his study but never really goes in-depth with it: "For example, an influx of foreign-born laborers reduces the economic opportunities for laborers. All laborers now face stiffer competition in the labor market. _At the same time, high-skill natives may gain substantially. They pay less for the services that laborers provide, such as painting the house and mowing the lawn, and natives who hire these laborers can now specialize in producing the goods and services that better suit their skills_." 

And please get your numbers straight, from your own source: 

"The [2004 Bush] plan has three key components: First, it would legalize the status of the *approximately 10 million illegal aliens* now present in the United States by creating a new type of temporary worker visa [...]

U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, part of the Department of Homeland Security, estimates that *there were 4.8 million Mexican illegal aliens present in the country in 2000*, making up about half of the 9.2 million Mexican immigrants counted by the 2000 Census." (The figure today is closer to 6.5 million according to the Department of Homeland Security).



> "Since 1970, immigration has *increased the number of unskilled job applicants *faster than the number of skilled job applicants.
> High Immigration Harms Many American Workers | NumbersUSA - For Lower Immigration Levels
> 
> *U.S. Workers Crowding Out Immigrant Laborers for Unskilled Jobs*
> 
> U.S. Workers Crowding Out Immigrant Laborers for Unskilled Jobs


----------



## LilOlLady

thinsey said:


> i HATE illegal immigrants. They destroy everything.



You don't really hate illegal aliens, you hate illegal immigration and our failed government. Illegal aliens are very likable people and the little children are just so cute. I had a little boy flirting with me yesterday at the clinic. It is hard to hate some one who is so innocent. Mother take good care of their chidlren and they are usually well behaved. They as a rule are a very friendly, caring and generous people. My scooter stopped in the park and several pushed my all the way home. They possible were gang members and did not speak English, I speak Spanish. Most of my friend are Hispanic, illegal immigration we do not talke about.
I hate what the government is letting happen to this country. 
I have one friend that was deported when McDonalds were raided that I keep in contact with and miss her very much. 
*Do you ever cheat a little at anything?*


----------



## LilOlLady

ogibillm said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Ariz. amendment clears ranchers from illegal immigrant suit*
> Apr 19, 2011
> 
> TUCSON (KGUN9-TV) - *Two Arizona ranchers found guilty of abusing illegal immigrants *may now be off the hook, thanks to* a new law signed Tuesday by Governor Jan Brewer*.
> 
> *Roger Barnett and Casey Nethercott *were ordered to pay hefty fines for what they did in 2004. And in Nethercott's case, it *cost him his ranch near Douglas.*
> Ariz. amendment clears ranchers from illegal immigrant suit - KGUN9 On Your Side, Tucson News, Weather & Sports
> 
> 
> 
> how'd the rancher know they were illegals?
Click to expand...


*Legal immigrants do not hand around the border unless they are mules.*.


----------



## ogibillm

LilOlLady said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Ariz. amendment clears ranchers from illegal immigrant suit*
> Apr 19, 2011
> 
> TUCSON (KGUN9-TV) - *Two Arizona ranchers found guilty of abusing illegal immigrants *may now be off the hook, thanks to* a new law signed Tuesday by Governor Jan Brewer*.
> 
> *Roger Barnett and Casey Nethercott *were ordered to pay hefty fines for what they did in 2004. And in Nethercott's case, it *cost him his ranch near Douglas.*
> Ariz. amendment clears ranchers from illegal immigrant suit - KGUN9 On Your Side, Tucson News, Weather & Sports
> 
> 
> 
> how'd the rancher know they were illegals?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Legal immigrants do not hand around the border unless they are mules.*.
Click to expand...


how's he know they were immigrants at all


----------



## thinsey

LilOlLady said:


> thinsey said:
> 
> 
> 
> i HATE illegal immigrants. They destroy everything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't really hate illegal aliens, you hate illegal immigration and our failed government. Illegal aliens are very likable people and the little children are just so cute. I had a little boy flirting with me yesterday at the clinic. It is hard to hate some one who is so innocent. Mother take good care of their chidlren and they are usually well behaved. They as a rule are a very friendly, caring and generous people. My scooter stopped in the park and several pushed my all the way home. They possible were gang members and did not speak English, I speak Spanish. Most of my friend are Hispanic, illegal immigration we do not talke about.
> I hate what the government is letting happen to this country.
> I have one friend that was deported when McDonalds were raided that I keep in contact with and miss her very much.
> *Do you ever cheat a little at anything?*
Click to expand...



I used to live 11 miles from the border. I see how they abuse the system and use the government. its disgusting.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Brewer signs bill authorizing Arizona border fence*
Apr. 29, 2011 04:30 PM
Associated Press
.

A bill signed into law by Gov. Jan Brewer authorizes erection of a security fence along Arizona's portion of the U.S.-Mexico border, either in a compact with other states or by itself.

Spokesman Matt Benson declined immediate comment Friday on why Brewer signed the bill Thursday and on whether she plans to invoke the authority.

The bill does not specify a cost or make an appropriation but says the state would use donations, *inmate labor *and private contractors.


Read more: Brewer signs bill authorizing Arizona border fence

*Could those inmates be illegal aliens?*


*Illegal Immigrants Caught Building Border Fence *
http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=197


----------



## LilOlLady

*Greece follows U.S. example by building giant border wall to keep *...dailymail.co.uk

Greece follows U.S. example by building giant border wall to keep out illegal immigrants | Mail Online


----------



## Epsilon Delta

LilOlLady said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Ariz. amendment clears ranchers from illegal immigrant suit*
> Apr 19, 2011
> 
> TUCSON (KGUN9-TV) - *Two Arizona ranchers found guilty of abusing illegal immigrants *may now be off the hook, thanks to* a new law signed Tuesday by Governor Jan Brewer*.
> 
> *Roger Barnett and Casey Nethercott *were ordered to pay hefty fines for what they did in 2004. And in Nethercott's case, it *cost him his ranch near Douglas.*
> Ariz. amendment clears ranchers from illegal immigrant suit - KGUN9 On Your Side, Tucson News, Weather & Sports
> 
> 
> 
> how'd the rancher know they were illegals?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Legal immigrants do not hand around the border unless they are mules.*.
Click to expand...

 
So, uhh... are you going to respond to anything I said or what? 

Got any other takers? Anything?


----------



## thinsey

LilOlLady said:


> *Brewer signs bill authorizing Arizona border fence*
> Apr. 29, 2011 04:30 PM
> Associated Press
> .
> 
> A bill signed into law by Gov. Jan Brewer authorizes erection of a security fence along Arizona's portion of the U.S.-Mexico border, either in a compact with other states or by itself.
> 
> Spokesman Matt Benson declined immediate comment Friday on why Brewer signed the bill Thursday and on whether she plans to invoke the authority.
> 
> The bill does not specify a cost or make an appropriation but says the state would use donations, *inmate labor *and private contractors.
> 
> 
> Read more: Brewer signs bill authorizing Arizona border fence
> 
> *Could those inmates be illegal aliens?*
> 
> 
> *Illegal Immigrants Caught Building Border Fence *
> Illegal Immigrants Caught Building Border Fence




YES! Lets take the illegal immigrants, force them to build our wall, then kick their butts to the other side of it. I love it!


----------



## Zona

LilOlLady said:


> *Brewer signs bill authorizing Arizona border fence*
> Apr. 29, 2011 04:30 PM
> Associated Press
> .
> 
> A bill signed into law by Gov. Jan Brewer authorizes erection of a security fence along Arizona's portion of the U.S.-Mexico border, either in a compact with other states or by itself.
> 
> Spokesman Matt Benson declined immediate comment Friday on why Brewer signed the bill Thursday and on whether she plans to invoke the authority.
> 
> The bill does not specify a cost or make an appropriation but says the state would use donations, *inmate labor *and private contractors.
> 
> 
> Read more: Brewer signs bill authorizing Arizona border fence
> 
> *Could those inmates be illegal aliens?*
> 
> 
> *Illegal Immigrants Caught Building Border Fence *
> Illegal Immigrants Caught Building Border Fence



How much will this cluster fuck cost our state? 

Here is a hint Janet...you build a 10 foot wall, they will build a 11 foot ladder.


----------



## brokenarrow

thinsey said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thinsey said:
> 
> 
> 
> i HATE illegal immigrants. They destroy everything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't really hate illegal aliens, you hate illegal immigration and our failed government. Illegal aliens are very likable people and the little children are just so cute. I had a little boy flirting with me yesterday at the clinic. It is hard to hate some one who is so innocent. Mother take good care of their chidlren and they are usually well behaved. They as a rule are a very friendly, caring and generous people. My scooter stopped in the park and several pushed my all the way home. They possible were gang members and did not speak English, I speak Spanish. Most of my friend are Hispanic, illegal immigration we do not talke about.
> I hate what the government is letting happen to this country.
> I have one friend that was deported when McDonalds were raided that I keep in contact with and miss her very much.
> *Do you ever cheat a little at anything?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I used to live 11 miles from the border. I see how they abuse the system and use the government. its disgusting.
Click to expand...

 
I wonder what would happen if Americans took matters into their own hands, ignored the laws (like the illegals are doing), formed vigilante/militias and just went on a rampage into Mexico.

I wonder if they would be eligible for amnesty?


----------



## Mad Scientist

Zona said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Brewer signs bill authorizing Arizona border fence*
> Apr. 29, 2011 04:30 PM
> Associated Press
> .
> 
> A bill signed into law by Gov. Jan Brewer authorizes erection of a security fence along Arizona's portion of the U.S.-Mexico border, either in a compact with other states or by itself.
> 
> Spokesman Matt Benson declined immediate comment Friday on why Brewer signed the bill Thursday and on whether she plans to invoke the authority.
> 
> The bill does not specify a cost or make an appropriation but says the state would use donations, *inmate labor *and private contractors.
> 
> 
> Read more: Brewer signs bill authorizing Arizona border fence
> 
> *Could those inmates be illegal aliens?*
> 
> 
> *Illegal Immigrants Caught Building Border Fence *
> Illegal Immigrants Caught Building Border Fence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How much will this cluster fuck cost our state?
> 
> Here is a hint Janet...you build a 10 foot wall, they will build a 11 foot ladder.
Click to expand...

You know how I know a fence would work? The government *doesn't want one built* that's why.


----------



## thinsey

Mad Scientist said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Brewer signs bill authorizing Arizona border fence*
> Apr. 29, 2011 04:30 PM
> Associated Press
> .
> 
> A bill signed into law by Gov. Jan Brewer authorizes erection of a security fence along Arizona's portion of the U.S.-Mexico border, either in a compact with other states or by itself.
> 
> Spokesman Matt Benson declined immediate comment Friday on why Brewer signed the bill Thursday and on whether she plans to invoke the authority.
> 
> The bill does not specify a cost or make an appropriation but says the state would use donations, *inmate labor *and private contractors.
> 
> 
> Read more: Brewer signs bill authorizing Arizona border fence
> 
> *Could those inmates be illegal aliens?*
> 
> 
> *Illegal Immigrants Caught Building Border Fence *
> Illegal Immigrants Caught Building Border Fence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How much will this cluster fuck cost our state?
> 
> Here is a hint Janet...you build a 10 foot wall, they will build a 11 foot ladder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You know how I know a fence would work? The government *doesn't want one built* that's why.
Click to expand...



Haha. Thats a really excellent point.


----------



## JBeukema

Zona said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Brewer signs bill authorizing Arizona border fence*
> Apr. 29, 2011 04:30 PM
> Associated Press
> .
> 
> A bill signed into law by Gov. Jan Brewer authorizes erection of a security fence along Arizona's portion of the U.S.-Mexico border, either in a compact with other states or by itself.
> 
> Spokesman Matt Benson declined immediate comment Friday on why Brewer signed the bill Thursday and on whether she plans to invoke the authority.
> 
> The bill does not specify a cost or make an appropriation but says the state would use donations, *inmate labor *and private contractors.
> 
> 
> Read more: Brewer signs bill authorizing Arizona border fence
> 
> *Could those inmates be illegal aliens?*
> 
> 
> *Illegal Immigrants Caught Building Border Fence *
> Illegal Immigrants Caught Building Border Fence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How much will this cluster fuck cost our state?
> 
> Here is a hint Janet...you build a 10 foot wall, they will build a 11 foot ladder.
Click to expand...


Then you have guards shoot anyone who tries to go over and use ground-penetrating radar and.or infrared to detect tunnels and shoot anyone who emerges at the American end.

There is a civil war being waged in Mexico right now between the competing cartels.  We can't allow that violence to spill over the border.


----------



## brokenarrow

Can I get the State of Illinois to pay for my border fence to keep the illegals out of my yard?


----------



## Anachronism

Zona said:


> How much will this cluster fuck cost our state?
> 
> Here is a hint Janet...you build a 10 foot wall, they will build a 11 foot ladder.



It'll probably cost less than what the illegals are stealing from you folks in terms of assistance on a yearly basis.

Will the 11' ladder help get them across the minefield that should be sown around the wall?


----------



## Angelhair

thinsey said:


> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zona said:
> 
> 
> 
> How much will this cluster fuck cost our state?
> 
> Here is a hint Janet...you build a 10 foot wall, they will build a 11 foot ladder.
> 
> 
> 
> You know how I know a fence would work? The government *doesn't want one built* that's why.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Haha. Thats a really excellent point.
Click to expand...


_You go girl!  Show them who is boss in AZ!  The government is not a dictatorship no matter how much this administration is acting.  If they build a fence 11 ft tall, put electirc wiring on the 11 ft. fence.  Problem solved._


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Zona said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Brewer signs bill authorizing Arizona border fence*
> Apr. 29, 2011 04:30 PM
> Associated Press
> .
> 
> A bill signed into law by Gov. Jan Brewer authorizes erection of a security fence along Arizona's portion of the U.S.-Mexico border, either in a compact with other states or by itself.
> 
> Spokesman Matt Benson declined immediate comment Friday on why Brewer signed the bill Thursday and on whether she plans to invoke the authority.
> 
> The bill does not specify a cost or make an appropriation but says the state would use donations, *inmate labor *and private contractors.
> 
> 
> Read more: Brewer signs bill authorizing Arizona border fence
> 
> *Could those inmates be illegal aliens?*
> 
> 
> *Illegal Immigrants Caught Building Border Fence *
> Illegal Immigrants Caught Building Border Fence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How much will this cluster fuck cost our state?
> 
> Here is a hint Janet...you build a 10 foot wall, they will build a 11 foot ladder.
Click to expand...


Kind of hard to sneak around the border carring a 11 foot ladder.


----------



## LilOlLady

*PRICE OF JUSTICE*
Was worth it?



10 years after 9-11 in revenge we have invaded and occupied 2 Muslim countries at a cost of trillion of dollars, sacrificed the lives of almost 6,000 young American men and women, 35,000 wounded seriously, many suicides and if this is justice, killed over 1 million innocent Iraqi men, women and children. Was it worth it?



When are we going to get justice for the thousands of Americans that have lost their lives and their American dream because of illegal immigration?



He was not really living in a cave, riding a donkey and using a hole for a toilet?



*What is justice? *
Justice can be defined in many ways. The simplest is that it is the absence of injustice. This allows us to see the *appropriateness of prevention*. We should not have to *wait for someone to abuse others before acting*. Once a situation has become clear, *act to prevent injustice*. 
Free Essays - What is Justice? :: Definition Essays


----------



## Leweman

1 million innocent Iraqis killled due to American forces?  Do elaborate.


----------



## Soggy in NOLA

Leweman said:


> 1 million innocent Iraqis killled due to American forces?  Do elaborate.



Don't bother.. Lilo's a dumbfuck of the lowest order.


----------



## LilOlLady

Leweman said:


> 1 million innocent Iraqis killled due to American forces?  Do elaborate.



*Iraq Deaths*
The number is *shocking and sobering*. It is at* least 10 times greater *than most estimates cited in the US media, yet it is based on a scientific study of *violent Iraqi deaths caused by the U.S.-led invasion of March 2003.*

The estimate that *over a million Iraqis have died *received independent confirmation from a prestigious British polling agency in September 2007. Opinion Research Business estimated that* 1.2 million Iraqis have been killed violently *since the US-led invasion.

Iraq Deaths | Just Foreign Policy

*IRAQ: Deaths under Saddam Hussein*
Tom Grey answers David Crow's request the empirical basis for his statement on the number of dead under Saddam Hussein. "See http://www.gbn.org/ArticleDisplayServlet.srv?aid=2400&msp=1242 Here is an excerpt:":Along with other human rights organizations, The Documental Centre for Human Rights in Iraq has compiled documentation on over* 600,000 civilian executions in Iraq*. Human Rights Watch reports that in one operation alone, the Anfal, Saddam killed 100,000 Kurdish Iraqis. Another 500,000 are estimated to have

IRAQ: Deaths under Saddam Hussein


----------



## LilOlLady

So, that line of reasoning goes, the *U.S. is actually culpable for
most of the deaths of innocent Iraqis*. (Some have said, it is
responsible for* ALL of them*.) And apart from putting down the
rebellion, *Saddam has NOT in fact been killing hundreds of thousands
of people.* So, *removing Saddam's regime will NOT actually save
hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi lives*.

Google Answers: How many innocent people did Saddam&#39;s security apparatus really kill per year?


----------



## LilOlLady

Soggy in NOLA said:


> Leweman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1 million innocent Iraqis killled due to American forces?  Do elaborate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't bother.. Lilo's a* dumbfuck of the lowest order*.
Click to expand...



*Is that the best you got*, Soggy?


----------



## Gunny

LilOlLady said:


> *PRICE OF JUSTICE*
> Was worth it?
> 
> 
> 
> 10 years after 9-11 in revenge we have invaded and occupied 2 Muslim countries at a cost of trillion of dollars, sacrificed the lives of almost 6,000 young American men and women, 35,000 wounded seriously, many suicides and if this is justice, killed over 1 million innocent Iraqi men, women and children. Was it worth it?
> 
> 
> 
> When are we going to get justice for the thousands of Americans that have lost their lives and their American dream because of illegal immigration?
> 
> 
> 
> He was not really living in a cave, riding a donkey and using a hole for a toilet?
> 
> 
> 
> *What is justice? *
> Justice can be defined in many ways. The simplest is that it is the absence of injustice. This allows us to see the *appropriateness of prevention*. We should not have to *wait for someone to abuse others before acting*. Once a situation has become clear, *act to prevent injustice*.
> Free Essays - What is Justice? :: Definition Essays



Let me guess ... you're a bleeding heart liberal who has no problem with criminals sucking the life out of our social infrastructure?

You drone on and on, day after day, defending criminals.


----------



## California Girl

Was it worth it?

Ask the families of the victims of 9-11.


----------



## signelect

The families I know think it was worth it.  I believe that we don't  have to occupy another country to set them free.  Why are we so arrogant that we think every one in the world wants to be like us.  I like us just fine but there are countries that want us to stay out of their affairs and I agree.


----------



## tigerbob

LilOlLady said:


> *PRICE OF JUSTICE*
> Was worth it?
> 
> 
> 
> 10 years after 9-11 in revenge we have invaded and occupied 2 Muslim countries at a cost of trillion of dollars, sacrificed the lives of almost 6,000 young American men and women, 35,000 wounded seriously, many suicides and if this is justice, killed over 1 million innocent Iraqi men, women and children. Was it worth it?
> 
> 
> 
> When are we going to get justice for the thousands of Americans that have lost their lives and their American dream because of illegal immigration?
> 
> 
> 
> He was not really living in a cave, riding a donkey and using a hole for a toilet?
> 
> 
> 
> *What is justice? *
> Justice can be defined in many ways. The simplest is that it is the absence of injustice. This allows us to see the *appropriateness of prevention*. We should not have to *wait for someone to abuse others before acting*. Once a situation has become clear, *act to prevent injustice*.
> Free Essays - What is Justice? :: Definition Essays



Irrespective of the way you've loaded the question, it depends on your values.  No war ever actually HAS to be fought.


----------



## signelect

If everyone in the congress and administration was require to have a family member in combat uniform and ready to go we would have a lot less war going on.  Everyone said Vietnam was a political war and I disagree, no politicians were killed but lots of soldiers were.


----------



## theHawk

LilOlLady said:


> *PRICE OF JUSTICE*
> Was worth it?
> 
> 
> 
> 10 years after 9-11 in revenge we have invaded and occupied 2 Muslim countries at a cost of trillion of dollars, sacrificed the lives of almost 6,000 young American men and women, 35,000 wounded seriously, many suicides and if this is justice, killed over 1 million innocent Iraqi men, women and children. Was it worth it?
> 
> 
> 
> When are we going to get justice for the thousands of Americans that have lost their lives and their American dream because of illegal immigration?
> 
> 
> 
> He was not really living in a cave, riding a donkey and using a hole for a toilet?
> 
> 
> 
> *What is justice? *
> Justice can be defined in many ways. The simplest is that it is the absence of injustice. This allows us to see the *appropriateness of prevention*. We should not have to *wait for someone to abuse others before acting*. Once a situation has become clear, *act to prevent injustice*.
> Free Essays - What is Justice? :: Definition Essays



More Americans have been murdered by illiegal aliens than killed in all the wars you mentioned.  So yes it was worth it till go after the Islamo assholes that attacked us.  What should have we done?  Surrendered?

Your manchild President and the Democrat bafoons in Congress and in the courts will do nothing about illegal immigration.  The only people even remotely interested in doing something are conservatives, so why don't you wake up and realize your idiotic liberal party has no interest in fixing the illegals problem.


----------



## LilOlLady

California Girl said:


> Was it worth it?
> 
> Ask the families of the victims of 9-11.



A 14 year old who was 4 years old when his dad died and he said *he did not feel Osama should have died*. I agree with him. There is no justice in revenge. 
Bush said he did not care where he was. Terorism is bigger than Sam.I agreee with him.


----------



## LilOlLady

theHawk said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *PRICE OF JUSTICE*
> Was worth it?
> 
> 
> 
> 10 years after 9-11 in revenge we have invaded and occupied 2 Muslim countries at a cost of trillion of dollars, sacrificed the lives of almost 6,000 young American men and women, 35,000 wounded seriously, many suicides and if this is justice, killed over 1 million innocent Iraqi men, women and children. Was it worth it?
> 
> 
> 
> When are we going to get justice for the* thousands of Americans that have lost their lives *and their American dream because of illegal immigration?
> 
> 
> 
> He was not really living in a cave, riding a donkey and using a hole for a toilet?
> 
> 
> 
> *What is justice? *
> Justice can be defined in many ways. The simplest is that it is the absence of injustice. This allows us to see the *appropriateness of prevention*. We should not have to *wait for someone to abuse others before acting*. Once a situation has become clear, *act to prevent injustice*.
> Free Essays - What is Justice? :: Definition Essays
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More Americans have been murdered by illiegal aliens than killed in all the wars you mentioned.  So yes it was worth it till go after the *Islamo assholes that attacked us*.  What should have we done?  Surrendered?
> 
> Your manchild President and the Democrat bafoons in Congress and in the courts will do nothing about illegal immigration.  The only people even remotely interested in doing something are conservatives, so why don't you wake up and realize your idiotic liberal party has no interest in fixing the illegals problem.
Click to expand...


Beside the 3,000 that died on 9-11 we gave them 6,000 more, 35,000 serious wounded, suicides and spent billions the past ten years to get one man who is not terrorism? Is that what you call justice. I call it stupid.







*&#8220;An eye for an eye would make the whole world blind.&#8221; * 
Mahatma Gandhi 

*&#8220;Revenge is often like biting a dog because the dog bit you.&#8221; * 
Austin O'Malley


----------



## LilOlLady

signelect said:


> The families I know think it was worth it.  I believe that we don't  have to occupy another country to set them free.  Why are we so arrogant that we think every one in the world wants to be like us.  I like us just fine but there are countries that want us to stay out of their affairs and I agree.



Do you really thing anything we do and die for will ever have anything to do with a free Afghanistan and Iraq?  They don't have the will to stay free even is we gave it to them. If a country want to be free they will fight to be free.


----------



## brokenarrow

LilOlLady said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was it worth it?
> 
> Ask the families of the victims of 9-11.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A 14 year old who was 4 years old when his dad died and he said *he did not feel Osama should have died*. I agree with him. There is no justice in revenge.
> Bush said he did not care where he was. Terorism is bigger than Sam.I agreee with him.
Click to expand...

 
How sweet. But she was never in a concentration camp was she. Ask a Jew who lived through the nightmare of the holocaust what should be done to Hitler and his people.

If you let these monsters off easy, you are just giving others a reason to keep killing people.


----------



## LilOlLady

California Girl said:


> Was it worth it?
> 
> Ask the families of the victims of 9-11.



Ask the families of the 6,000 killed in Iraq, the 35,000 wounded and lost limbs. Ask Iraqis who lots 1 million innocent men, women and children, million displaced forever, like Jews and Christians.  Ask them if they think it was worth it and Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11.
And the trillions spent? Ask taxpayers.

To get ONE man?


----------



## LilOlLady

brokenarrow said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was it worth it?
> 
> Ask the families of the victims of 9-11.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A 14 year old who was 4 years old when his dad died and he said *he did not feel Osama should have died*. I agree with him. There is no justice in revenge.
> Bush said he did not care where he was. Terorism is bigger than Sam.I agreee with him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How sweet. But she was never in a concentration camp was she. Ask a Jew who lived through the nightmare of the holocaust what should be done to Hitler and his people.
> 
> If you let these monsters off easy, you are just giving others a reason to keep killing people.
Click to expand...


*Ask the Jews that had been in Iraq for generations and had to leave forever. They will never be able to return and neither will the christians, those who were not killed. Under Saddam they had co-existed but not a chance in hell now. Sunni and Shite lived in peace together, Even intermarrying. Thanks to our invasion.  Ask Iraqis if freedom was worth the loss. Iraqis did not ask us to "liberate" than. 
Research the History of Iraq and you will find it is a lot difference then right wing nuts have brainwashed us into thinking to excuse their bumbling. We need to stop helping where help is not wanted.
This country helped Native Americans and almost destroyed them*

*Iraqis say they were better off under rule of Saddam Hussein     * 
Many adults in Iraq believe the coalition effort has been negative, according to a poll by the *Iraq Centre for Research and Strategic Studies *and the* Gulf Research Center*. *90 per cent* of respondents think the situation in their country was better before the U.S.-led invasion. 


Iraqis say they were better off under rule of Saddam Hussein - STWR - Share The World's Resources


----------



## LilOlLady

brokenarrow said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was it worth it?
> 
> Ask the families of the victims of 9-11.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A 14 year old who was 4 years old when his dad died and he said *he did not feel Osama should have died*. I agree with him. There is no justice in revenge.
> Bush said he did not care where he was. Terorism is bigger than Sam.I agreee with him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How sweet. But she was never in a *concentration camp *was she. Ask a* Jew *who lived through the nightmare of the *holocaus*t what should be done to Hitler and his people.
> 
> If you let these monsters off easy, you are just giving others a reason to keep killing people.
Click to expand...


WTH are you trying to compare the Jews, holocaust and Hitler to?
Sam cannot be compared to Hitler and cannot be compared to the atrocities we have committed againt our own people.
If Sam deserved to die................? At least Bush should have been tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity. But he is hailed a hero?


*Citizens' Tribunals Find Bush Guilty of War Crimes*
http://sites.timurtripp.com/indictbush.org/beta/citizenstribunals01.pdf


----------



## LilOlLady

The question all of you need to be asking is *why and how 9-11 happen*?
There are a lot of theories floating around and research and come to your own conclusion. Isn't his what Trump said?



*Motivations for allowing 9-11 to happen.*
The attacks were allowed to happen to facilitate an *aggressive policy of world empire*, particularly in the *Middle East and Central Asian oil fields*, which contain energy supplies that will become even more critical in the near future as *oil extraction declines in the non-Islamic world*. (It has been said that the *last two barrels of oil will be Saudi and Iraqi.*)
Control over the United States economy and its war machine is the greatest prize in human history - and spending a mere couple billion on new ballot machines to ensure its continued control by a tiny elite is a good investment, from their perspective
http://www.oilempire.us/911why.html


----------



## LilOlLady

*..Bin Ladens Death Comes at a Price: Was It Worth It?*
http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/166034-bin-laden-s-death-comes-at-a-price.html#post3603967


----------



## brokenarrow

LilOlLady said:


> brokenarrow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> A 14 year old who was 4 years old when his dad died and he said *he did not feel Osama should have died*. I agree with him. There is no justice in revenge.
> Bush said he did not care where he was. Terorism is bigger than Sam.I agreee with him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How sweet. But she was never in a *concentration camp *was she. Ask a* Jew *who lived through the nightmare of the *holocaus*t what should be done to Hitler and his people.
> 
> If you let these monsters off easy, you are just giving others a reason to keep killing people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTH are you trying to compare the Jews, holocaust and Hitler to?
> Sam cannot be compared to Hitler and cannot be compared to the atrocities we have committed againt our own people.
> If Sam deserved to die................? At least Bush should have been tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity. But he is hailed a hero?
> 
> 
> *Citizens' Tribunals Find Bush Guilty of War Crimes*
> http://sites.timurtripp.com/indictbush.org/beta/citizenstribunals01.pdf
Click to expand...

 


> Sam cannot be compared to Hitler and cannot be compared to the atrocities we have committed againt our own people.


 
Since I've never committed any atrocities, "we" must mean you.

I would have preferred he dust off a nuke and use one. You must remind these killers that we got stuff that will turn their countries into ashtrays and we will use them.

Stop fighting the battle the way THEY WANT YOU TO. They can't compete with a nuke. We also have biological weapons that would remove the problem too. 

Remember, in court, no one was ever declared "innocent".


----------



## MikeK

Leweman said:


> 1 million innocent Iraqis killled due to American forces?  Do elaborate.


Actually no one knows how many Iraqi citizens have died as the direct result of our (Bush's) illegal invasion of their country.  There are many conflicting estimates most of which collectively hover in the hundreds of thousands and at least one that claims a million.  The sad fact is the nation of Iraq has been so severely devastated that it may never be possible to know exactly how many of its citizens died, or will die, or were crippled, or were socially and essentially ruined by our aggressive action.  

If you will reflect on the March evening in 2003 when America watched the bombing of Baghdad, a relatively modern city the size of Brooklyn, each of those gigantic explosions were killing people, possibly hundreds at a time, including little tots in their cribs, and there were hundreds of those bombs and missiles striking all over that city.  We watched it happen -- like watching the televised July 4th fireworks display at Coney Island.  

It is impossible to do that to an inhabited city without killing or severely injuring tens or hundreds of thousands of people.  A million isn't a certainty, but it certainly is a possibility.  The real question is not a number, but why?  Why did our Congress allow Bush to advance his highly questionable agenda and order that invasion?  Why do we allow our Congress to get away with it?


----------



## tigerbob

MikeK said:


> Leweman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1 million innocent Iraqis killled due to American forces?  Do elaborate.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually no one knows how many Iraqi citizens have died as the direct result of our (Bush's) illegal invasion of their country.  There are many conflicting estimates most of which collectively hover in the hundreds of thousands and at least one that claims a million.  The sad fact is the nation of Iraq has been so severely devastated that it may never be possible to know exactly how many of its citizens died, or will die, or were crippled, or were socially and essentially ruined by our aggressive action.
> 
> If you will reflect on the March evening in 2003 when America watched the bombing of Baghdad, a relatively modern city the size of Brooklyn, each of those gigantic explosions were killing people, possibly hundreds at a time, including little tots in their cribs, and there were hundreds of those bombs and missiles striking all over that city.  We watched it happen -- like watching the televised July 4th fireworks display at Coney Island.
> 
> It is impossible to do that to an inhabited city without killing or severely injuring tens or hundreds of thousands of people.  A million isn't a certainty, but it certainly is a possibility.  The real question is not a number, but why?  Why did our Congress allow Bush to advance his highly questionable agenda and order that invasion?  Why do we allow our Congress to get away with it?
Click to expand...


You might get a wider audience for your views if you avoid including signposts in the first sentence.  

Use words like 'illegal', and instantly the reader is left with the impression that this is going to be 3 paragraphs of slanted criticism (whether true or not) rather than an honest appraisal of the facts, possibly culminating in some personal views.  

That said, if you're posting this for the benefit of those that share your view, then I guess they will have no problem with it.  However, if your intention was to persuade those with different views, you're probably not going to do it by rubbing their noses in how "illegal" it was.


----------



## LilOlLady

You don't really belive Sam in at the bottom of the sea in a shroud, do you? He is being preserved at Area 51 for future reference. It is too important to dispose of hm.


----------



## LilOlLady

brokenarrow said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> brokenarrow said:
> 
> 
> 
> How sweet. But she was never in a *concentration camp *was she. Ask a* Jew *who lived through the nightmare of the *holocaus*t what should be done to Hitler and his people.
> 
> If you let these monsters off easy, you are just giving others a reason to keep killing people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WTH are you trying to compare the Jews, holocaust and Hitler to?
> Sam cannot be compared to Hitler and cannot be compared to the atrocities we have committed againt our own people.
> If Sam deserved to die................? At least Bush should have been tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity. But he is hailed a hero?
> 
> 
> *Citizens' Tribunals Find Bush Guilty of War Crimes*
> http://sites.timurtripp.com/indictbush.org/beta/citizenstribunals01.pdf
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sam cannot be compared to Hitler and cannot be compared to the atrocities we have committed againt our own people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since I've never committed any atrocities, "we" must mean you.
> 
> I would have preferred he dust off a nuke and use one. You must remind these killers that *we *got stuff that will turn their countries into ashtrays and* we *will use them.
> 
> Stop fighting the battle the way THEY WANT YOU TO. They can't compete with a nuke. *We *also have biological weapons that would remove the problem too.
> 
> Remember, in court, no one was ever declared "innocent".
Click to expand...

 *LMAO*


If you are an American, you are a *we*. Victims of 9-11 were wes also. *We* invaded and occupied Iraq and Afghanistan, Do you believe terrorist care if you personally dropped any bombs on Muslims?


----------



## brokenarrow

LilOlLady said:


> brokenarrow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> WTH are you trying to compare the Jews, holocaust and Hitler to?
> Sam cannot be compared to Hitler and cannot be compared to the atrocities we have committed againt our own people.
> If Sam deserved to die................? At least Bush should have been tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity. But he is hailed a hero?
> 
> 
> *Citizens' Tribunals Find Bush Guilty of War Crimes*
> http://sites.timurtripp.com/indictbush.org/beta/citizenstribunals01.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sam cannot be compared to Hitler and cannot be compared to the atrocities we have committed againt our own people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since I've never committed any atrocities, "we" must mean you.
> 
> I would have preferred he dust off a nuke and use one. You must remind these killers that *we *got stuff that will turn their countries into ashtrays and* we *will use them.
> 
> Stop fighting the battle the way THEY WANT YOU TO. They can't compete with a nuke. *We *also have biological weapons that would remove the problem too.
> 
> Remember, in court, no one was ever declared "innocent".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *LMAO*
> 
> 
> If you are an American, you are a *we*. Victims of 9-11 were wes also. *We* invaded and occupied Iraq and Afghanistan, Do you believe terrorist care if you personally dropped any bombs on Muslims?
Click to expand...

 
When I stand before God, I am ME! I didn't commit any attrocities. My family fought in both World Wars. My only responsibility to God is to remove the evil that has invaded the United States and is holding the US government hostage.


----------



## LilOlLady

brokenarrow said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> brokenarrow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since I've never committed any atrocities, "we" must mean you.
> 
> I would have preferred he dust off a nuke and use one. You must remind these killers that *we *got stuff that will turn their countries into ashtrays and* we *will use them.
> 
> Stop fighting the battle the way THEY WANT YOU TO. They can't compete with a nuke. *We *also have biological weapons that would remove the problem too.
> 
> Remember, in court, no one was ever declared "innocent".
> 
> 
> 
> *LMAO*
> 
> 
> If you are an American, you are a *we*. Victims of 9-11 were wes also. *We* invaded and occupied Iraq and Afghanistan, Do you believe terrorist care if you personally dropped any bombs on Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When I stand before God, I am ME! *I didn't commit any attrocities*. My family fought in both World Wars. My only responsibility to God is to remove the evil that has invaded the United States and is holding the US government hostage.
Click to expand...


Since *I've never committed any atrocities*, "we" must mean you.

I would have preferred he dust off a nuke and use one. You must remind these killers that *we got stuff *that will turn their countries into ashtrays and *we will use them*.

Stop fighting the battle the way THEY WANT YOU TO. They can't compete with a nuke. *We also have biological weapons* that would remove the problem too. 

*Do you or did you not just post this?:*


----------



## MikeK

tigerbob said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leweman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1 million innocent Iraqis killled due to American forces?  Do elaborate.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually no one knows how many Iraqi citizens have died as the direct result of our (Bush's) illegal invasion of their country.  There are many conflicting estimates most of which collectively hover in the hundreds of thousands and at least one that claims a million.  The sad fact is the nation of Iraq has been so severely devastated that it may never be possible to know exactly how many of its citizens died, or will die, or were crippled, or were socially and essentially ruined by our aggressive action.
> 
> If you will reflect on the March evening in 2003 when America watched the bombing of Baghdad, a relatively modern city the size of Brooklyn, each of those gigantic explosions were killing people, possibly hundreds at a time, including little tots in their cribs, and there were hundreds of those bombs and missiles striking all over that city.  We watched it happen -- like watching the televised July 4th fireworks display at Coney Island.
> 
> It is impossible to do that to an inhabited city without killing or severely injuring tens or hundreds of thousands of people.  A million isn't a certainty, but it certainly is a possibility.  The real question is not a number, but why?  Why did our Congress allow Bush to advance his highly questionable agenda and order that invasion?  Why do we allow our Congress to get away with it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You might get a wider audience for your views if you avoid including signposts in the first sentence.
> 
> Use words like 'illegal', and instantly the reader is left with the impression that this is going to be 3 paragraphs of slanted criticism (whether true or not) rather than an honest appraisal of the facts, possibly culminating in some personal views.
> 
> That said, if you're posting this for the benefit of those that share your view, then I guess they will have no problem with it.  However, if your intention was to persuade those with different views, you're probably not going to do it by rubbing their noses in how "illegal" it was.
Click to expand...

Your critique is most appreciated.

Am I correct in assuming that those who are too effectively indoctrinated to know, or who simply refuse to accept, that Bush's invasion of Iraq was illegal cannot be persuaded by anything I might have to say about it?  

Because this is a discussion forum I'm predisposed to the notion that anything I say is open to (hopefully sensible) debate, which probably is why I'm more inclined to invite discussion rather than to persuade on the basis of initial commentary.  So what are your thoughts on what I had to say?  Do you believe the Iraq invasion was legal?  Morally justifiable?  If not, why do you suppose the Bush crime family was allowed to get away with the conspiracy?


----------



## LilOlLady

*IMMIGRANT vs. ILLEGAL ALIENS.*

Last Word Lawrence McDonnells commercial *advocating immigrants*.  Typical of advocates for *an amnesty plan *for illegal aliens like to *play with words as if Americans do not know the difference between legal and illegal*. *Immigrants and aliens. *Saying be should not closed the door to immigrants. We have always had *open doors for immigrants*. We allow 500,000 to immigrants legally each year. So we cannot sum that up as *a closed door policy *and still that is not letting those in that fill the professional jobs we need filled like doctors and nurses. Immigrants are good for this country and always has been. Matter of fact that *door is as open as it has ever been*. But the door that allowed 20 million to enter illegally should be closed until we are able to screen who are coming in. We now have a *open door policy on the southern border *and have no idea who has come in with the 20 million that has entered illegally. *Illegal uncontrolled immigration is a nation destroyer, not a nation builder.*

We need immigrants to fill those jobs Americans are not doing anymore because they are *putting down roots now and not following the harvest like they used to*. And we have *H-1A Visa *they allow *unlimited immigrants workers *to fill the jobs needed for harvesting our crops. But of those 20 million that have entered illegal only *2% are working in fields*. What are the other 98% doing? And only 7.5 million are in the work force so that leaves 12.5 million doing GODs only knows what. *We do not need immigrants *to do construction work, cut our lawns, flip our burgers and wash dishes, nanny our children and clean our houses and hotels and other unskilled jobs. We have an* ample supply of unskilled American workers *to fill those jobs

Lawrence McDonnell dont have a clue about illegal immigration if he believe we need illegal aliens.  Nothing good has ever come from illegal immigration. We are a nation of laws and *illegal immigration is illegal*. Mr. McDonnell comercial is *encouraging people to break the law*.

If we made it* easier for American children go to college *we would not need to *import professionals to fill those jobs *we are not filling with our children. We do not need to import more poverty or need to *educate anchor babie*s to compete with our own children who are struggling to get past cuts in education and higher tuitions and compete for scholarship money.

Those 20 million that have entered the country illegal and produced 500,000 anchor babies are low skilled workers and pay very little in taxes if any and receive far more in benefits then they contribute to the economy. And all their *anchor babies are not working hard to getting  an education,* unless you consider *gang affiliation an education*. What country needs this?  *Mexico dont want it *so they teach them how to enter undetected and* Mexico do not have the responsibility of providing jobs or services* but *receive $17 billion a year in benefits *from those that we are taking care of. Education, healthcare, welfare and law enforcement with incarcerations.  Mr. McDonnell until you are educated on illegal immigration and have walked in the *shoes of millions of Americans who get hands on education *shut the hell up.

Immigrants of old entered this country by registering as Ellis Island and before there were no immigration laws to break. They did not steal across the border undetected. There is a big difference between *immigrants and illegal aliens* and if you dont like the words *aliens or anchor babies* lets *simple not have any*.

*Door should be closed to illegal immigration indefinitely because we have more than liberal amount of  legal immigration. Nothing good has ever come from illegal immigration*.


----------



## LilOlLady

Punishment for entering this country illegal should not be amnesty with a fine but no matter how long they have been here breaking the law. no matter how many anchor babies they may have is to go to the end of the line and enter legally. That would discourage more illegal immigration and encourage more legal immigration. Knowing if caught and you will be caught be deported.


----------



## signelect

How about if I illegally break into your house and live there, can you give me amnesty and let me stay, I am betting you would call the police and have me thrown out.  Why can't we do that for our country.


----------



## tigerbob

MikeK said:


> tigerbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually no one knows how many Iraqi citizens have died as the direct result of our (Bush's) illegal invasion of their country.  There are many conflicting estimates most of which collectively hover in the hundreds of thousands and at least one that claims a million.  The sad fact is the nation of Iraq has been so severely devastated that it may never be possible to know exactly how many of its citizens died, or will die, or were crippled, or were socially and essentially ruined by our aggressive action.
> 
> If you will reflect on the March evening in 2003 when America watched the bombing of Baghdad, a relatively modern city the size of Brooklyn, each of those gigantic explosions were killing people, possibly hundreds at a time, including little tots in their cribs, and there were hundreds of those bombs and missiles striking all over that city.  We watched it happen -- like watching the televised July 4th fireworks display at Coney Island.
> 
> It is impossible to do that to an inhabited city without killing or severely injuring tens or hundreds of thousands of people.  A million isn't a certainty, but it certainly is a possibility.  The real question is not a number, but why?  Why did our Congress allow Bush to advance his highly questionable agenda and order that invasion?  Why do we allow our Congress to get away with it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You might get a wider audience for your views if you avoid including signposts in the first sentence.
> 
> Use words like 'illegal', and instantly the reader is left with the impression that this is going to be 3 paragraphs of slanted criticism (whether true or not) rather than an honest appraisal of the facts, possibly culminating in some personal views.
> 
> That said, if you're posting this for the benefit of those that share your view, then I guess they will have no problem with it.  However, if your intention was to persuade those with different views, you're probably not going to do it by rubbing their noses in how "illegal" it was.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your critique is most appreciated.
> 
> *Am I correct in assuming that those who are too effectively indoctrinated to know, or who simply refuse to accept, that Bush's invasion of Iraq was illegal cannot be persuaded by anything I might have to say about it*?
> 
> Because this is a discussion forum I'm predisposed to the notion that anything I say is open to (hopefully sensible) debate, which probably is why I'm more inclined to invite discussion rather than to persuade on the basis of initial commentary.  So what are your thoughts on what I had to say?  Do you believe the Iraq invasion was legal?  Morally justifiable?  If not, why do you suppose the Bush crime family was allowed to get away with the conspiracy?
Click to expand...


Invading Iraq, in my opinion, should have been something that was promoted by the UN.  For many years, Saddam had been an unmitigated tyrant, responsible for the brutalizing of his own people.  This sort of behavior is exactly one of the sort of things the UN was supposed to address.  Of course , it doesn't, though I feel it has moved in the right direction with Libya.

I think removing Saddam from power by force was the right thing to do.

The reasons that were given for invading Iraq, again in my opinion, were paper thin and possibly in many ways fabricated.  The timing also made little or no sense.  In addition to that, having ousted Saddam, the countries involved did an awful job maintaining a functioning society as the transition to truly representative democracy was attempted.

With regard to the paragraph I highlighted in bold, it's not really for me to say what others may think, but your use of terms like "Indoctrination" and "Bush crime family" appear to make it clear what your position is towards those who supported the invasion of Iraq.  I would assume that those who you believe have been indoctrinated would probably be uninclined to consider your views, primarily because people tend not to react well to being told they have no mind of their own.


----------



## LilOlLady

signelect said:


> How about if I illegally break into your house and live there, can you give me amnesty and let me stay, I am betting you would call the police and have me thrown out.  Why can't we do that for our country.



What part of *"I agree" *do you not understand? 
You are really pissing me off, signelect.


----------



## LilOlLady

signelect said:


> How about if I illegally break into your house and live there, can you give me amnesty and let me stay, I am betting you would call the police and have me thrown out.  Why can't we do that for our country.



At least read part of my post.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Mexico's farm workers move north, US agri-businesses move south...*
Jan 03 2011
Mexican migrant workers have played an important role in US agriculture for decades, especially during harvest time, when they fill temporary menial and low-paid positions.

In recent years, border restrictions and periodic US crack-downs on the employment of undocumented workers have reduced the number of Mexicans seeking seasonal jobs north of the border. This has apparently resulted in some US agricultural enterprises deciding to shift their production centers into Mexico &#8211; if the workers won&#8217;t come to the farms, then the farms have to come to the workers&#8230;

Mexico&#8217;s farm workers move north, US agri-businesses move south&#8230; | Geo-Mexico, the geography of Mexico

*Give farm worker a path to citizenship and they will leave the farms for better jobs in the cities leaving farms short of workers.:
It is not that they are not allowed more workers, Mexicans do not want to do hard dirty back breaking work either. There is no cap on H-2A visas. They have to take their business to Mexico to get amply suppply of workers. Mexicos are not sneaking across the border to work on farms.*


----------



## MikeK

tigerbob said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tigerbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> You might get a wider audience for your views if you avoid including signposts in the first sentence.
> 
> Use words like 'illegal', and instantly the reader is left with the impression that this is going to be 3 paragraphs of slanted criticism (whether true or not) rather than an honest appraisal of the facts, possibly culminating in some personal views.
> 
> That said, if you're posting this for the benefit of those that share your view, then I guess they will have no problem with it.  However, if your intention was to persuade those with different views, you're probably not going to do it by rubbing their noses in how "illegal" it was.
> 
> 
> 
> Your critique is most appreciated.
> 
> *Am I correct in assuming that those who are too effectively indoctrinated to know, or who simply refuse to accept, that Bush's invasion of Iraq was illegal cannot be persuaded by anything I might have to say about it*?
> 
> Because this is a discussion forum I'm predisposed to the notion that anything I say is open to (hopefully sensible) debate, which probably is why I'm more inclined to invite discussion rather than to persuade on the basis of initial commentary.  So what are your thoughts on what I had to say?  Do you believe the Iraq invasion was legal?  Morally justifiable?  If not, why do you suppose the Bush crime family was allowed to get away with the conspiracy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Invading Iraq, in my opinion, should have been something that was promoted by the UN.  For many years, Saddam had been an unmitigated tyrant, responsible for the brutalizing of his own people.  This sort of behavior is exactly one of the sort of things the UN was supposed to address.  Of course , it doesn't, though I feel it has moved in the right direction with Libya.
> 
> *I think removing Saddam from power by force was the right thing to do.*
> 
> The reasons that were given for invading Iraq, again in my opinion, were paper thin and possibly in many ways fabricated.  The timing also made little or no sense.  In addition to that, having ousted Saddam, the countries involved did an awful job maintaining a functioning society as the transition to truly representative democracy was attempted.
> 
> With regard to the paragraph I highlighted in bold, it's not really for me to say what others may think, but your use of terms like "Indoctrination" and "Bush crime family" appear to make it clear what your position is towards those who supported the invasion of Iraq.  I would assume that those who you believe have been indoctrinated would probably be uninclined to consider your views, primarily because people tend not to react well to being told they have no mind of their own.
Click to expand...

Even though you believe the reasons given for invading Iraq, which, according to international law was a war crime, were "paper thin" (deliberate, systematic lies) and "the timing made little or no sense," you believe removing Saddam Hussein from power was the right thing to do?  

Really?  

Were you among the American troops who served under arms in Iraq?  If not, were any of the 4,400+ of those troops who died in Iraq related to you in some way?  If not, were any of the thousands who were physically or mentally crippled in that illegal invasion and occupation related to you?  

Inasmuch as Iraq represented absolutely no threat or provocation to the United States, keeping in mind that the United States has never been appointed cops of the world, how about telling us in very specific terms why you believe the American and Allied soldiers who were killed, the bodies and minds that were ruined and the massive treasure expended are justifiable losses.

And while you're at it, can you think of any other "unmitigated tyrants" in the world whom you believe the U.S. should send its sons and brothers to die and be crippled, as well as expending treasure we simply cannot afford, in an effort to remove?  

Also, considering the condition of Iraq before we invaded and the condition of that country now, and considering the number of Iraqis killed by our direct action, including innocent men women and children -- little tots, can you say our effort has benefited the Iraqi people?


----------



## chikenwing

MikeK said:


> tigerbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your critique is most appreciated.
> 
> *Am I correct in assuming that those who are too effectively indoctrinated to know, or who simply refuse to accept, that Bush's invasion of Iraq was illegal cannot be persuaded by anything I might have to say about it*?
> 
> Because this is a discussion forum I'm predisposed to the notion that anything I say is open to (hopefully sensible) debate, which probably is why I'm more inclined to invite discussion rather than to persuade on the basis of initial commentary.  So what are your thoughts on what I had to say?  Do you believe the Iraq invasion was legal?  Morally justifiable?  If not, why do you suppose the Bush crime family was allowed to get away with the conspiracy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Invading Iraq, in my opinion, should have been something that was promoted by the UN.  For many years, Saddam had been an unmitigated tyrant, responsible for the brutalizing of his own people.  This sort of behavior is exactly one of the sort of things the UN was supposed to address.  Of course , it doesn't, though I feel it has moved in the right direction with Libya.
> 
> *I think removing Saddam from power by force was the right thing to do.*
> 
> The reasons that were given for invading Iraq, again in my opinion, were paper thin and possibly in many ways fabricated.  The timing also made little or no sense.  In addition to that, having ousted Saddam, the countries involved did an awful job maintaining a functioning society as the transition to truly representative democracy was attempted.
> 
> With regard to the paragraph I highlighted in bold, it's not really for me to say what others may think, but your use of terms like "Indoctrination" and "Bush crime family" appear to make it clear what your position is towards those who supported the invasion of Iraq.  I would assume that those who you believe have been indoctrinated would probably be uninclined to consider your views, primarily because people tend not to react well to being told they have no mind of their own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Even though you believe the reasons given for invading Iraq, which, according to international law was a war crime, were "paper thin" (deliberate, systematic lies) and "the timing made little or no sense," you believe removing Saddam Hussein from power was the right thing to do?
> 
> Really?
> 
> Were you among the American troops who served under arms in Iraq?  If not, were any of the 4,400+ of those troops who died in Iraq related to you in some way?  If not, were any of the thousands who were physically or mentally crippled in that illegal invasion and occupation related to you?
> 
> Inasmuch as Iraq represented absolutely no threat or provocation to the United States, keeping in mind that the United States has never been appointed cops of the world, how about telling us in very specific terms why you believe the American and Allied soldiers who were killed, the bodies and minds that were ruined and the massive treasure expended are justifiable losses.
> 
> And while you're at it, can you think of any other "unmitigated tyrants" in the world whom you believe the U.S. should send its sons and brothers to die and be crippled, as well as expending treasure we simply cannot afford, in an effort to remove?
> 
> Also, considering the condition of Iraq before we invaded and the condition of that country now, and considering the number of Iraqis killed by our direct action, including innocent men women and children -- little tots, can you say our effort has benefited the Iraqi people?
Click to expand...


Once again folks throwing around personnel opinions as facts.


----------



## MikeK

chikenwing said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tigerbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Invading Iraq, in my opinion, should have been something that was promoted by the UN.  For many years, Saddam had been an unmitigated tyrant, responsible for the brutalizing of his own people.  This sort of behavior is exactly one of the sort of things the UN was supposed to address.  Of course , it doesn't, though I feel it has moved in the right direction with Libya.
> 
> *I think removing Saddam from power by force was the right thing to do.*
> 
> The reasons that were given for invading Iraq, again in my opinion, were paper thin and possibly in many ways fabricated.  The timing also made little or no sense.  In addition to that, having ousted Saddam, the countries involved did an awful job maintaining a functioning society as the transition to truly representative democracy was attempted.
> 
> With regard to the paragraph I highlighted in bold, it's not really for me to say what others may think, but your use of terms like "Indoctrination" and "Bush crime family" appear to make it clear what your position is towards those who supported the invasion of Iraq.  I would assume that those who you believe have been indoctrinated would probably be uninclined to consider your views, primarily because people tend not to react well to being told they have no mind of their own.
> 
> 
> 
> Even though you believe the reasons given for invading Iraq, which, according to international law was a war crime, were "paper thin" (deliberate, systematic lies) and "the timing made little or no sense," you believe removing Saddam Hussein from power was the right thing to do?
> 
> Really?
> 
> Were you among the American troops who served under arms in Iraq?  If not, were any of the 4,400+ of those troops who died in Iraq related to you in some way?  If not, were any of the thousands who were physically or mentally crippled in that illegal invasion and occupation related to you?
> 
> Inasmuch as Iraq represented absolutely no threat or provocation to the United States, keeping in mind that the United States has never been appointed cops of the world, how about telling us in very specific terms why you believe the American and Allied soldiers who were killed, the bodies and minds that were ruined and the massive treasure expended are justifiable losses.
> 
> And while you're at it, can you think of any other "unmitigated tyrants" in the world whom you believe the U.S. should send its sons and brothers to die and be crippled, as well as expending treasure we simply cannot afford, in an effort to remove?
> 
> Also, considering the condition of Iraq before we invaded and the condition of that country now, and considering the number of Iraqis killed by our direct action, including innocent men women and children -- little tots, can you say our effort has benefited the Iraqi people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once again folks throwing around personnel opinions as facts.
Click to expand...

If you disagree with something I've said why not present your argument rather than waste time and space with meaningless, unproductive comments.


----------



## chikenwing

Touched a nerve??

people throw around numbers killed,how legal or illegal Iraq has been,Bush lied the list goes on and on,same old BS these ARE ALL OPINIONS now if you don't like that its just to bad for you.


----------



## MikeK

chikenwing said:


> Touched a nerve??
> 
> people throw around numbers killed,how legal or illegal Iraq has been,Bush lied the list goes on and on,same old BS these ARE ALL OPINIONS now if you don't like that its just to bad for you.


Do you doubt the number of Americans killed in Iraq that I mentioned?  Do you doubt that Bush's invasion and occupation of Iraq was illegal by the standard of International Law?  Neither item is an opinion of mine -- or of anyone else.  Both are well established matters of fact.  

I'm sorry if this information is difficult for you to swallow whole but I suggest the reason is you are among the indoctrinated right-wing acolytes for whom the truth and the facts are painful.  

Again, if you have a reasoned argument I would like to know what it is.  Otherwise, rather than wasting your time expressing vacuous resentment I suggest you make use of Google in educating yourself as to the fact that the Bush Administration was guilty of some of the worst crimes in the history of the Executive Branch of our government.


----------



## LilOlLady

*OBAMA  PLUGGING COM. IMMIG. REFORM AGAIN.*Obama to push immigration reform in Texas; Rep. Lamar Smith says it&#8217;s &#8216;unlikely he will succeed anytime soon&#8217; | Texas on the Potomac | a Chron.com blog
Our immigration system is not broken and if it is not broken it does not need fixing.


Just because 20 million people entered this country illegally, been here for 20 years, working illegally, putting down roots and producing 350,000 anchor babies a year does not mean our immigration system is broken and need to be reformed. It mean our government is broken and need reforming. (fixing)

20 million illegal aliens broke our Federal Immigration and Nationality Act when they entered the country illegally and that is a federal crime exacting imprisonment and a fine. Not a path to citizenship and a fine. Changing the law does not fix the problem, it exacerbates the problem.

Our government has been broken for more than 50 years because it does not enforce our immigration laws and have not secured the borders. Enforcing our immigration laws and securing our border would cost less than amnesty. 1986 should never have happened but it should be a learning experience and not let it happen again. Because we did not learn from the 1986 amnesty we are repeating it again. It did not fix our illegal immigration problem. Letting people in the country that cannot contribute anything to the country is a country destroyer. Illegal immigration is costing Americans in education, healthcare, welfare, law enforcement and incarcerations and economically.

Our immigration system allows 500,000 to enter the country legally each year and proves it is not broken. H-2A visas allow farmers unlimited supply of workers for their farms. If they are short of workers it is because illegal aliens do not want to work on farms. We do not need to legalize 20 million illegal aliens to fill jobs American will not do because there are no jobs American will not do. Businesses hire illegal aliens because they will work for less, worker harder and not complain about working conditions. Much like slave labor in China and America should be ashamed.

So what is really broken and need reforming (fixing) is our government that is not doing their job of enforcing our immigration laws and not securing our border and businesses addiction to cheap slave labor.
Amnesty in 1986 did not fix our illegal immigration problem and amnesty in the form of a fine and path to citizenship will not fix it in 2012. Com.Immig. Reform should have nothing to do with compassion and humane treatment and anchor babies. Enforcement and border security will fix it but our government do not have to resolve to fix it for fear of offending Hispanics and the Mexican government. What does that mean? We got a bunch of pussies trying to run the government and it is time we elect someone who has cajones.

We do not need racial profiling to enforce our immigration laws. I am an American citizen and when I was born I was issued a birth certificate proving my citizenship. In dealing with any areas of our government I  have to produce an evidence of who I am and that identification proves I am a citizen of this country. It also identifies my race. I have to prove who I am when I entered school, go to the doctor, get a drivers license, get a Social Security card and apply for a job and they all need proof of birth. Why do I have to produce evidence of who I am and illegal aliens dont and if they are asked for identification it is racial profiling? If I am walking down the street to the ice cream parlor I have my identification on me. The Federal Immigration and Nationality Act allows for profiling illegal aliens if there is reasonable suspicion that they are illegal. 

There is absolutely no excuse for 20 million people to be in this country illegally and Com. Immig. Reform will not fix it. It will only legalize 20 million illegal aliens so no one in the county will be illegal. That like letting a child eat the last cookie so there will be no more cookies for him to eat.

We cannot take the path we have taken before by calling it by another name.  Path to citizenship with a fine. Selling U.S. citizenship may be illegal, unconstitutional and a crime?

PS.
I want to see Americans back to work. What prompted this is I got up to close my window because of the noise coming from the lawn mower and I saw a young white man mowing the lawn. Raids done on businesses have released jobs for American who have lined up for the jobs once held by illegal aliens. Jobs Obama say American will not do. I want to see American once again taking my order and flipping burgers, assisting me in Walmart, picking up my garbage, babying sitting our children and elderly, building houses, fixing our roads and streets, and parking lots, doing the unskilled jobs they used to do before they were taken by illegal aliens. My daughter who just got laid off from her  $60 a year job is now a nanny, cleaning, cooking, doing laundry, picking up kids form school, and taking them to dance classes, etc. Who is doing this work for Obamas family in the white house? 

Com. Immig. Reform will have 20 million people legally competing for jobs with Americans. Legalizing 20 million people will not cause them to contribute more to the system but will allow them to benefit more form the system. Americans will never agree to another amnesty by any name again. Anyone who believes Americans are for anything other than enforcement and border security are not listening to Americans. And that can be a big mistake.

 Last year *1,130,818 people *became legal permanent residents of the United States.


US Citizenship For Sale http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MiorNErAYM


----------



## LilOlLady

*Welcome to Texans For Immigration Reform!*
We favor the rigorous enforcement of existing laws against persons who illegally enter or reside in the United States.

We work to oppose or repeal laws and programs that encourage illegal immigration and residence.

Finally, we work to educate the public and work with our elected representatives to achieve these objectives.
Texans For Immigration Reform - Home


----------



## LilOlLady

*HomeHolder eyes Utah guest-worker law*
State gets time to change its policy

A year after suing Arizona over its tough immigration law, Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. told Congress on Tuesday that his department is* prepared to sue Utah *for going the other way and creating its own guest-worker program - though he is giving the state some time to change its law.

Thats a law that doesnt go into effect until 2013, Mr. Holder told the House Judiciary Committee. We will look at the law, and *if it is not changed to our satisfaction by 2013*, we will take all the necessary steps.

Holder eyes Utah guest-worker law - Washington Times


----------



## Angelhair

_Election time nears._


----------



## Angelhair

LilOlLady said:


> *OBAMA  PLUGGING COM. IMMIG. REFORM AGAIN.*Obama to push immigration reform in Texas; Rep. Lamar Smith says its unlikely he will succeed anytime soon | Texas on the Potomac | a Chron.com blog
> Our immigration system is not broken and if it is not broken it does not need fixing.
> 
> 
> Just because 20 million people entered this country illegally, been here for 20 years, working illegally, putting down roots and producing 350,000 anchor babies a year does not mean our immigration system is broken and need to be reformed. It mean our government is broken and need reforming. (fixing)
> 
> 20 million illegal aliens broke our Federal Immigration and Nationality Act when they entered the country illegally and that is a federal crime exacting imprisonment and a fine. Not a path to citizenship and a fine. Changing the law does not fix the problem, it exacerbates the problem.
> 
> Our government has been broken for more than 50 years because it does not enforce our immigration laws and have not secured the borders. Enforcing our immigration laws and securing our border would cost less than amnesty. 1986 should never have happened but it should be a learning experience and not let it happen again. Because we did not learn from the 1986 amnesty we are repeating it again. It did not fix our illegal immigration problem. Letting people in the country that cannot contribute anything to the country is a country destroyer. Illegal immigration is costing Americans in education, healthcare, welfare, law enforcement and incarcerations and economically.
> 
> Our immigration system allows 500,000 to enter the country legally each year and proves it is not broken. H-2A visas allow farmers unlimited supply of workers for their farms. If they are short of workers it is because illegal aliens do not want to work on farms. We do not need to legalize 20 million illegal aliens to fill jobs American will not do because there are no jobs American will not do. Businesses hire illegal aliens because they will work for less, worker harder and not complain about working conditions. Much like slave labor in China and America should be ashamed.
> 
> So what is really broken and need reforming (fixing) is our government that is not doing their job of enforcing our immigration laws and not securing our border and businesses addiction to cheap slave labor.
> Amnesty in 1986 did not fix our illegal immigration problem and amnesty in the form of a fine and path to citizenship will not fix it in 2012. Com.Immig. Reform should have nothing to do with compassion and humane treatment and anchor babies. Enforcement and border security will fix it but our government do not have to resolve to fix it for fear of offending Hispanics and the Mexican government. What does that mean? We got a bunch of pussies trying to run the government and it is time we elect someone who has cajones.
> 
> We do not need racial profiling to enforce our immigration laws. I am an American citizen and when I was born I was issued a birth certificate proving my citizenship. In dealing with any areas of our government I  have to produce an evidence of who I am and that identification proves I am a citizen of this country. It also identifies my race. I have to prove who I am when I entered school, go to the doctor, get a drivers license, get a Social Security card and apply for a job and they all need proof of birth. Why do I have to produce evidence of who I am and illegal aliens dont and if they are asked for identification it is racial profiling? If I am walking down the street to the ice cream parlor I have my identification on me. The Federal Immigration and Nationality Act allows for profiling illegal aliens if there is reasonable suspicion that they are illegal.
> 
> There is absolutely no excuse for 20 million people to be in this country illegally and Com. Immig. Reform will not fix it. It will only legalize 20 million illegal aliens so no one in the county will be illegal. That like letting a child eat the last cookie so there will be no more cookies for him to eat.
> 
> We cannot take the path we have taken before by calling it by another name.  Path to citizenship with a fine. Selling U.S. citizenship may be illegal, unconstitutional and a crime?
> 
> PS.
> I want to see Americans back to work. What prompted this is I got up to close my window because of the noise coming from the lawn mower and I saw a young white man mowing the lawn. Raids done on businesses have released jobs for American who have lined up for the jobs once held by illegal aliens. Jobs Obama say American will not do. I want to see American once again taking my order and flipping burgers, assisting me in Walmart, picking up my garbage, babying sitting our children and elderly, building houses, fixing our roads and streets, and parking lots, doing the unskilled jobs they used to do before they were taken by illegal aliens. My daughter who just got laid off from her  $60 a year job is now a nanny, cleaning, cooking, doing laundry, picking up kids form school, and taking them to dance classes, etc. Who is doing this work for Obamas family in the white house?
> 
> Com. Immig. Reform will have 20 million people legally competing for jobs with Americans. Legalizing 20 million people will not cause them to contribute more to the system but will allow them to benefit more form the system. Americans will never agree to another amnesty by any name again. Anyone who believes Americans are for anything other than enforcement and border security are not listening to Americans. And that can be a big mistake.
> 
> Last year *1,130,818 people *became legal permanent residents of the United States.
> 
> 
> US Citizenship For Sale http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MiorNErAYM



_You give them a hand and they demand a foot._


----------



## LilOlLady

Angelhair said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *OBAMA  PLUGGING COM. IMMIG. REFORM AGAIN.*Obama to push immigration reform in Texas; Rep. Lamar Smith says its unlikely he will succeed anytime soon | Texas on the Potomac | a Chron.com blog
> Our immigration system is not broken and if it is not broken it does not need fixing.
> 
> 
> Just because 20 million people entered this country illegally, been here for 20 years, working illegally, putting down roots and producing 350,000 anchor babies a year does not mean our immigration system is broken and need to be reformed. It mean our government is broken and need reforming. (fixing)
> 
> 20 million illegal aliens broke our Federal Immigration and Nationality Act when they entered the country illegally and that is a federal crime exacting imprisonment and a fine. Not a path to citizenship and a fine. Changing the law does not fix the problem, it exacerbates the problem.
> 
> Our government has been broken for more than 50 years because it does not enforce our immigration laws and have not secured the borders. Enforcing our immigration laws and securing our border would cost less than amnesty. 1986 should never have happened but it should be a learning experience and not let it happen again. Because we did not learn from the 1986 amnesty we are repeating it again. It did not fix our illegal immigration problem. Letting people in the country that cannot contribute anything to the country is a country destroyer. Illegal immigration is costing Americans in education, healthcare, welfare, law enforcement and incarcerations and economically.
> 
> Our immigration system allows 500,000 to enter the country legally each year and proves it is not broken. H-2A visas allow farmers unlimited supply of workers for their farms. If they are short of workers it is because illegal aliens do not want to work on farms. We do not need to legalize 20 million illegal aliens to fill jobs American will not do because there are no jobs American will not do. Businesses hire illegal aliens because they will work for less, worker harder and not complain about working conditions. Much like slave labor in China and America should be ashamed.
> 
> So what is really broken and need reforming (fixing) is our government that is not doing their job of enforcing our immigration laws and not securing our border and businesses addiction to cheap slave labor.
> Amnesty in 1986 did not fix our illegal immigration problem and amnesty in the form of a fine and path to citizenship will not fix it in 2012. Com.Immig. Reform should have nothing to do with compassion and humane treatment and anchor babies. Enforcement and border security will fix it but our government do not have to resolve to fix it for fear of offending Hispanics and the Mexican government. What does that mean? We got a bunch of pussies trying to run the government and it is time we elect someone who has cajones.
> 
> We do not need racial profiling to enforce our immigration laws. I am an American citizen and when I was born I was issued a birth certificate proving my citizenship. In dealing with any areas of our government I  have to produce an evidence of who I am and that identification proves I am a citizen of this country. It also identifies my race. I have to prove who I am when I entered school, go to the doctor, get a drivers license, get a Social Security card and apply for a job and they all need proof of birth. Why do I have to produce evidence of who I am and illegal aliens dont and if they are asked for identification it is racial profiling? If I am walking down the street to the ice cream parlor I have my identification on me. The Federal Immigration and Nationality Act allows for profiling illegal aliens if there is reasonable suspicion that they are illegal.
> 
> There is absolutely no excuse for 20 million people to be in this country illegally and Com. Immig. Reform will not fix it. It will only legalize 20 million illegal aliens so no one in the county will be illegal. That like letting a child eat the last cookie so there will be no more cookies for him to eat.
> 
> We cannot take the path we have taken before by calling it by another name.  Path to citizenship with a fine. Selling U.S. citizenship may be illegal, unconstitutional and a crime?
> 
> PS.
> I want to see Americans back to work. What prompted this is I got up to close my window because of the noise coming from the lawn mower and I saw a young white man mowing the lawn. Raids done on businesses have released jobs for American who have lined up for the jobs once held by illegal aliens. Jobs Obama say American will not do. I want to see American once again taking my order and flipping burgers, assisting me in Walmart, picking up my garbage, babying sitting our children and elderly, building houses, fixing our roads and streets, and parking lots, doing the unskilled jobs they used to do before they were taken by illegal aliens. My daughter who just got laid off from her  $60 a year job is now a nanny, cleaning, cooking, doing laundry, picking up kids form school, and taking them to dance classes, etc. Who is doing this work for Obamas family in the white house?
> 
> Com. Immig. Reform will have 20 million people legally competing for jobs with Americans. Legalizing 20 million people will not cause them to contribute more to the system but will allow them to benefit more form the system. Americans will never agree to another amnesty by any name again. Anyone who believes Americans are for anything other than enforcement and border security are not listening to Americans. And that can be a big mistake.
> 
> Last year *1,130,818 people *became legal permanent residents of the United States.
> 
> 
> US Citizenship For Sale http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MiorNErAYM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _You give them a hand and they demand a foot._
Click to expand...


No, an arm and a leg.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Obama announcing Comprehensive immigration Reform *is like announcing the* day after Christmas sales, the Okla. land rush of 1889, the gold rush and the lottery*. Illegal aliens will *stampede across the border *stepping each other and over border patrols to *get in on the next amnesty*. Nothing would stop them. Now, *announcing immigrations enforcement *will send them *scrambling back across the border to get the best jobs available there*. 

They have said it is a path to citizenship with a fine but never said how the fine would be collected? When you cannot get illegal aliens to show up to pay parking tickets.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Obama Ignores Congress With Stroke-of-the-pen AMNESTY*
April 21, 2011

Obama Ignores Congress With Stroke-of-the-pen AMNESTY


----------



## LilOlLady

*Teen Joblessness and ILLEGAL Immigration*

By Eric Ruark,
FAIR Director of Research

Many jobs held by illegal aliens, such as in the fast food industry or doing seasonal work, were once entry level jobs that introduced teenagers to the labor market and gave them valuable work experience. High rates of unemployment for teenagers is an especially troubling trend because, as Sum has pointed out in earlier studies, teens who do not enter the job market continue to remain unemployed throughout much of their adult lives, and earn lower wages when they do work. They are also more likely to drop out of high school and have a much higher rate of teen pregnancy and criminal activity.

One Old Vet » Teen Joblessness and ILLEGAL Immigration


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

And the issue isnt illegal aliens but private sector employers who hire undocumented employees and Federal authorities who, for obvious reasons, dont investigate and punish employers who violate employment law.


----------



## Smash_Hits

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> And the issue isnt illegal aliens but private sector employers who hire undocumented employees and Federal authorities who, for obvious reasons, dont investigate and punish employers who violate employment law.



I was going to post a reply, but this guy basically summed it up.


Also, if the immigrants are getting the jobs, that means that they are more qualified than teenagers. End of story. Isn't this what republicans want? People getting jobs on the merits of their own skills, and not through government intervention?


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

Really, youre citing a TPM site? 

And do you actually research the junk you post or are you merely incapable of comprehending it? 

In any event, this canard of an executive order has been around for about a year now with no evidence of its existence provided. Indeed, almost a year ago as well DHS clearly stated it would not offer any type of amnesty to those who came to the US illegally: 



> The Department of Homeland Security on Friday denied any plans to grant blanket amnesty to the "entire illegal immigrant population," following claims from senators and others that the Obama administration has been holding behind-the-scenes talks to craft a gameplan for mass legalization.
> 
> The concern is that DHS, in a bid to bypass Congress, would extend what is known as deferred action or parole -- actions usually taken on a case-by-case basis -- to millions of illegal immigrants at once.
> 
> Read more: Homeland Security Denies Interest in Blanket Amnesty for Illegals - FoxNews.com
> 
> The department statement, however, did not address the possibility of giving a selective reprieve to the segment of the population holding expired visas -- as opposed to those who crossed illegally. This is something that a former Bush administration official told FoxNews.com could be an option.
> 
> But the statement said the reprieves would not be drastically expanded. The department, while affirming its authority to grant the extensions "on the merits of cases," said they are applied on a "case-by-case" basis.
> 
> "DHS does not grant deferred action without a review of relevant facts," the statement said. "To be clear, DHS will not grant deferred action to the nation's entire illegal immigrant population."
> 
> Homeland Security Denies Interest in Blanket Amnesty for Illegals - FoxNews.com



So there was no amnesty for those here illegally, only a case-by-case review of deferring the deportation of those who came here legally where their visas expired. 

So much for this thread and the TPM.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Vicente Fox: Mexicans do jobs "not even blacks will do"*
May 14, 2005

_*Mexican President Vicente Fox tossed a not-so-veiled insult at black Americans yesterday when he insisted that the US should admit illegal immigrants because they do jobs that "not even blacks will do." *_
Ramblings' Journal: Vicente Fox: Mexicans do jobs "not even blacks will do"

Employment  rate for Black men over 20 years old stood at 16.8%  Black teenage unemployment at 42% nearly double the white teenage rate of 22%.  Unemployment rate for Hispanic teens at  19.7%.  High school dropouts  unemployment rate at  50% higher than the rest of the nation.

Obama and Reid want to *place insult upon insult on Blacks with the Dream Act and Comprehensive Immigration Reform.* Their acts are even *more insulting to Blacks then President Fox*. Hispanic teens and their parents displace Blacks at a rate higher than any other race. Illegal aliens are illegally  taking jobs from Americans now and if they are put on a path to citizenship they will legally take more jobs away from Americans.  

With the Dream Act they want to make it *easier for children of illegal aliens to go to school *when they should be making it* easier for American children to go to school *so we would not have drop-outs and they would contribute to the country. Obama and Reid is making  more competition for our children and their parents. Obama and Reid seem to be* working for Mexico and not for America.* We need to open up those jobs that illegal aliens are doing by doing what* President Eisenhower did in 1954 using racial profiling *to arrest and deport illegal aliens. Which is perfectly legal and put Americans back to work.

*Obama and Reid must feel much the same as President Fox*.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Why unskilled immigrants hurt America:* 
In the old days, we cried *'give me your tired, your poor*,' but today's *welfare and social- services apparatus enormously raises the cost of immigration *July 23, 2006

By Steven Malanga

The day after Librado Velasquez arrived on Staten Island after a long, surreptitious journey from his home in Chiapas, Mexico, he headed out to a street corner to wait with other illegal immigrants looking for work. Velasquez, who had supported his wife, seven kids, and his in-laws as a campesino, or peasant farmer, until a 1998 hurricane devastated his farm, eventually got work, off the books, loading trucks at a small New Jersey factory, which hired illegals for jobs that required few special skills. The arrangement suited both, until a work injury sent Velasquez to the local emergency room, where federal law required that he be treated, though he could not afford to pay for his care. After five operations, he is now permanently disabled and has remained in the United States to pursue compensation claims. 

*EARLIER IMMIGRANTS HAD SKILLS 
WELCOME TO THE WELFARE STATE 
UNSKILLED IMMIGRANTS LOWER WAGES 
ENDING UP ON SOCIETY'S MARGINS 
IMMIGRANTS DON'T CLIMB THE LADDER
END SOCIAL AID TO IMMIGRANTS *
Manhattan Institute ... grants.htm


----------



## LilOlLady

*Napolitano Announces Obama Administration Plan to Give Amnesty to Illegal Aliens*
 11/13/2009 | Penny Starr 
Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 4:05:53 PM by markomalley

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said Friday that the Obama administration will push for immigration reform by giving the estimated 14 million people who are in the United States illegally fair pathway to earned legal status. 
A tough and fair pathway to earned legal status will mandate that illegal immigrants meet a number of requirementsincluding registering, paying a fine, passing a criminal background check, fully paying all taxes and learning English, 
Napolitano Announces Obama Administration Plan to Give Amnesty to Illegal Aliens


_*Stupid ass woman. Big fucking deal. 
How is that going to help Americans?[/*COLOR]_

*How the fuck you fix some thing that is not broken. When you try to fix some thing that is not broken you end up breaking it. I guess you and tell I am toughly pissed at this kind of left wing nuts radical rhetoric and propaganda.


I am going to puke if I keep hearing this kind of shit


They already pay taxes and very little at that because they are low wages earners and if legal will get the unearned tax return for their kids. So they will get all they paid in and more. Plus being legal they will receive more in benefits then they contribute.


Our economy do not grow off the poor and unskilled laborers. We will have a 5th world country of poverty if we legalize 20 million illegal aliens. All of them will not work and will be collectors or welfare or commit crimes and in up in prison at a cost taxpayers. 
*


----------



## LilOlLady

* Not doing the jobs Americans wont do*: *70% of illegal aliens in Texas receive welfare*
April 18, 2011 ·  

*Illegal aliens crossing the border to line up at the welfare office*
A new study has found that a remarkable 70% of illegal aliens in Texas are on the dole. Since only 39% of native born Americans are on welfare, it makes one think that the phrase *doing the jobs Americans wont do* should be changed to *not doing the jobs that Americans wont do.*
http://www.ihatethemedia.com/70-percent-of-illegal-aliens-in-texas-receive-welfare

*Legalize them and there would be more of welfare.*


----------



## LilOlLady

*Not doing the jobs Americans wont do: 70% of illegal aliens in Texas receive welfare*April 18, 2011 · 

Illegal aliens crossing the border to line up at the welfare office
A new study has found that a remarkable 70% of illegal aliens in Texas are on the dole. Since only 39% of native born Americans are on welfare, it makes one think that the phrase doing the jobs Americans wont do should be changed to not doing the jobs that Americans wont do.
http://www.ihatethemedia.com/70-perc...eceive-welfare


*Legalize them and there would be more of welfare. What is it going to take to wake you you fools in Washington? AN illegal aliens in your beds? They are in my bed and every aspect of my life and I am a senior citizen not working or on welfare. I hate illegal immigration and it is causing me to hate Mexicans. I don't llike what it does to me.*

____________________________________________________
"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."


----------



## brokenarrow

LilOlLady said:


> *Not doing the jobs Americans wont do: 70% of illegal aliens in Texas receive welfare*April 18, 2011 ·
> 
> Illegal aliens crossing the border to line up at the welfare office
> A new study has found that a remarkable 70% of illegal aliens in Texas are on the dole. Since only 39% of native born Americans are on welfare, it makes one think that the phrase doing the jobs Americans wont do should be changed to not doing the jobs that Americans wont do.
> http://www.ihatethemedia.com/70-perc...eceive-welfare
> 
> 
> *Legalize them and there would be more of welfare. What is it going to take to wake you you fools in Washington? AN illegal aliens in your beds? They are in my bed and every aspect of my life and I am a senior citizen not working or on welfare. I hate illegal immigration and it is causing me to hate Mexicans. I don't llike what it does to me.*
> 
> ____________________________________________________
> "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."


 
Whose paying taxes?

The problem you face is that you cannot become as hate filled as the Mexicans who are demanding money from America for doing less than what they did in Mexico. 

I think like this. For every Mexican that sneaks into the US, at least one child from one of over 125 countries in the world that is poorer than Mexico will have to go hungry. That Mexican will steal the funds that would have gone overseas to feed others. I can't even find information on charities from Latin America that are concerned with countries outside of Latin America.


----------



## LilOlLady

*OBAMA SPEAKS WITH A FORKED TONGUE*

Deporting children of illegal aliens is not a *punishment.* If we need them as much as Obama say we need them, just think *how much more Mexico need them*. If we take Mexicos children it will destroy Mexico because it will only leave the elderly.  *Children are Mexicos  future.* Mexico need its children to built a strong Mexico. Mexico has good schools, a better healthcare system then ours, and a welfare system but *they are not as generous as we are in spreading their wealth around*. Illegal aliens and their children,* 2.7 million*, is costing us billions and *amnesty will cost us trillions*. If illegal aliens go home, they will create jobs for themselves. They will *stimulate Mexicos economy.* 

There is no evidence that children of illegal aliens,  as a rule, are all attending school. All evidence points to *drop outs, teen pregnancies, gang affiliation and drug dealing and crimes*. *Incarceration of illegal aliens and their children *prove that are not all *hard working law abiding *people who only want to take care of their families and Obama want to bring families together by *Chain Migration*. We do not have the *natural resources to support a population explosion *of poverty.

Children cross the border with their parents leaving schools, friends, language and culture to a* country that is alien to them *and it is a *culture shock* no matter how long they have been here. I have seen *children translating for their parents*. *They have not assimilated because their parents havent*. Most of the parents do not speak English and still live as if they are still in Mexico in *neighborhoods that are predominantly Hispanic*. Some cities in this California are 98% Hispanic. *Mexicans are the least of illegal aliens to assimilate making it hard for their children to assimilate.* The are *torn between the culture of their parents and the American culture*. 

The best thing for illegal aliens and their children is to go back to their homeland. Anchor babies although they are American citizens are in the same family and cannot be separated. They are *torn between two countries and two cultures*. 

Mexico need its young men in their military to help fight drugs cartels. We dont need them in our military. *If Mexico defeat drug cartels, it benefits us*.  Drugs from Mexico is *supporting drug addiction *here and is destroying Americans.

Obama is working for big corporations and *his political career*. The *Dream Act and Com. Immig. Reform* is not about what is best for America or illegal aliens and their children, *its about 2012.*

*Dream Act is just another plot to amnesty*. If we legalize the children we are not going to deport their parents.  

Obama speaks with a forked tongue. He speaks of the *Dream Act, Com. Immig. Reform. Enforcement and border security  *in the same breath. He cannot get re-elected without the Hispanic vote and El Paso has  amply supply of Hispanic votes. *Do the math.*


----------



## LilOlLady

*OBAMA PAINT A FALSE PICTURE OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.*

I dont know who he is trying to fool. The American people has a first hand experience with illegal aliens and it is quite different from the crap Obama was throwing around in El Paso. 

Children of illegal aliens are not all working hard in school. Some of them are drop outs, in gangs, dealing drugs and committing other crimes and is prisons, and unwed pregnant teens on welfare.

Illegal aliens and their 2.7 million children are costing American tax payers billions in education, healthcare, welfare, law enforcement, gang and graffiti units and incarcerations each year while they are struggling to take care of their families and send their children to college. Illegal aliens kill 15 Americans (more then the Iraq war) and rape 8 children daily. Take jobs from Americans and lower wages for Americans. They are not doing jobs American will not do but jobs Americans would do it they were not taken by them.  With 14 million Americans unemployed we do not need to legalize illegal aliens to create jobs and rise wages for Americans. Biggest pile of crap I ever heard.  

This is the things Obama did not talk about in El Paso. Obama was not talking to Americans, he was talking to illegal aliens and Hispanics. Americans dont want to hear the left wing illegal immigration BS.  We want to hear enforcement and border security and no the Dream Act or Comprehensive Immigration Reform which mean amnesty. 


*Valley leaders applaud Obama's call for immigration reform after El Paso speech*

*Hidalgo County Sheriff Lupe Treviño *traveled to El Paso for Obamas appearance after he was invited late last week by White House officials.

We have 12 million illegal aliens in this country right now, the sheriff said. Theres *no way youre going to be able to deport or push back those people to their country of origin*. Thats *impossible.*
Valley leaders applaud Obama's call for immigration reform after El Paso speech | obama, immigration, calling - TheMonitor.com



We did it twice before with less resources than we have now and we can do it again if we had the resolve to do it. Rounding them up and putting them on planes, trains, busses and ships in not the only way to get them to leave. If they cannot work they will self deport and we do that by enforcing our laws against business hiring illegal aliens. E-Verity system and fingerprint social security cards and repealing automatic birthright citizenship for children of illegal aliens if we are serious about ending illegal immigration. If we dont have to cajones to do this we will never stop illegal immigration.


----------



## brokenarrow

LilOlLady said:


> We have 12 million illegal aliens in this country right now, the sheriff said. Theres *no way youre going to be able to deport or push back those people to their country of origin*. Thats *impossible.*


 
The *Doolittle Raid*, on 18 April 1942, was the first air raid by the United States to strike the Japanese Home Islands (specifically Honshu) during World War II. By demonstrating that Japan itself was vulnerable to American air attack, it provided a vital morale boost and opportunity for U.S. retaliation after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941. The raid was planned and led by Lieutenant Colonel James "Jimmy" Doolittle. Doolittle would later recount in his autobiography that the raid was intended to bolster American morale and to cause the Japanese to begin doubting their leadership:
The Japanese people had been told they were invulnerable ... An attack on the Japanese homeland would cause confusion in the minds of the Japanese people and sow doubt about the reliability of their leaders. There was a second, and equally important, psychological reason for this attack ... Americans badly needed a morale boost.[1]​Sixteen U.S. Army Air Forces B-25B Mitchell medium bombers were launched from the U.S. Navy's aircraft carrier USS _Hornet_ deep in the Western Pacific Ocean. The plan called for them to bomb military targets in Japan, and to continue westward to land in Chinalanding a medium bomber on the _Hornet_ was impossible. All of the aircraft involved in the bombing were lost and 11 crewmen were either killed or capturedwith three of the captured men executed by the Japanese Army in China. One of the B-25s landed in the Soviet Union at Vladivostok, where it was confiscated and its crew interned for more than a year. Thirteen entire crews, and all but one crewman of a 14th, returned either to the United States or to American forces.[2][3]

*The Doolittle raid was considered "impossible" to the Japs, but Americans do the impossible all the time during a war to free the captive world.*

*It would never have taken place if Mexicans ran the United States. That is the thing people should remember.*


----------



## mudwhistle

It is impossible for Obama to be honest.


----------



## LilOlLady

*ENFORCEMENT AND BORDER SECURITY NOT A TRADE OFF

 FOR AMNESTY.*



Obamas speech in El Paso on immigration was directed to toward telling illegal aliens and supporters what he wanted them to hear. He was praising illegal immigrants as if they were the best thing that has happen to this country since apple pie and kool aid.



He said he has delivered what we ask for and now he want Comprehensive Immigration Reform. The border is more secure than ever, deportations are up, etc. but he lied.



*--Only 44% of the border is secure. Arizona is asking for public donation to build a fence.

--Drugs and illegal aliens are still coming in from Mexico and guns and drug money still going out to Mexico.

--Drug cartels are still operating in side our borders, growing marijuana in our national forests.

--State and local officials are still not required to arrest, detain and turn -----illegal aliens over to Federal Immigration authorities for deportation. 

--Sanctuary cities are still harboring illegal aliens.

--We still have 14 million unemployed Americans and Obama still want keep 7.5 million illegal aliens taking jobs and lowering wages.*



Obama has not given us all we ask for. *Enforcement and border security is no where near a trade off for any form of amnesty. *Illegal immigration is not a *game between Democarts and Republicans*. Enforcement and border security is necessary  to avoid  Americans from becoming an *endangered species.*


----------



## LilOlLady

brokenarrow said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> &#8220;We have 12 million illegal aliens in this country right now,&#8221; the sheriff said. &#8220;There&#8217;s *no way you&#8217;re going to be able to deport or push back those people to their country of origin*. That&#8217;s *impossible.&#8221;*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The *Doolittle Raid*, on 18 April 1942, was the first air raid by the United States to strike the Japanese Home Islands (specifically Honshu) during World War II. By demonstrating that Japan itself was vulnerable to American air attack, it provided a vital morale boost and opportunity for U.S. retaliation after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941. The raid was planned and led by Lieutenant Colonel James "Jimmy" Doolittle. Doolittle would later recount in his autobiography that the raid was intended to bolster American morale and to cause the Japanese to begin doubting their leadership:
> The Japanese people had been told they were invulnerable ... An attack on the Japanese homeland would cause confusion in the minds of the Japanese people and sow doubt about the reliability of their leaders. There was a second, and equally important, psychological reason for this attack ... Americans badly needed a morale boost.[1]​Sixteen U.S. Army Air Forces B-25B Mitchell medium bombers were launched from the U.S. Navy's aircraft carrier USS _Hornet_ deep in the Western Pacific Ocean. The plan called for them to bomb military targets in Japan, and to continue westward to land in China&#8212;landing a medium bomber on the _Hornet_ was impossible. All of the aircraft involved in the bombing were lost and 11 crewmen were either killed or captured&#8212;with three of the captured men executed by the Japanese Army in China. One of the B-25s landed in the Soviet Union at Vladivostok, where it was confiscated and its crew interned for more than a year. Thirteen entire crews, and all but one crewman of a 14th, returned either to the United States or to American forces.[2][3]
> 
> *The Doolittle raid was considered "impossible" to the Japs, but Americans do the impossible all the time during a war to free the captive world.*
> 
> *It would never have taken place if Mexicans ran the United States. That is the thing people should remember.*
Click to expand...


"Japs" is not an abbreviation for Japanese. "Jap" became a degoratory during the war and still is a insult and ethnic slur to Japanese-Americans. Where are  you coming from?


----------



## theHawk

LilOlLady said:


> *OBAMA PAINT A FALSE PICTURE OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.*
> 
> I dont know who he is trying to fool. The American people has a first hand experience with illegal aliens and it is quite different from the crap Obama was throwing around in El Paso.
> 
> Children of illegal aliens are not all working hard in school. Some of them are drop outs, in gangs, dealing drugs and committing other crimes and is prisons, and unwed pregnant teens on welfare.
> 
> Illegal aliens and their 2.7 million children are costing American tax payers billions in education, healthcare, welfare, law enforcement, gang and graffiti units and incarcerations each year while they are struggling to take care of their families and send their children to college. Illegal aliens kill 15 Americans (more then the Iraq war) and rape 8 children daily. Take jobs from Americans and lower wages for Americans. They are not doing jobs American will not do but jobs Americans would do it they were not taken by them.  With 14 million Americans unemployed we do not need to legalize illegal aliens to create jobs and rise wages for Americans. Biggest pile of crap I ever heard.
> 
> This is the things Obama did not talk about in El Paso. Obama was not talking to Americans, he was talking to illegal aliens and Hispanics. Americans dont want to hear the left wing illegal immigration BS.  We want to hear enforcement and border security and no the Dream Act or Comprehensive Immigration Reform which mean amnesty.
> 
> 
> *Valley leaders applaud Obama's call for immigration reform after El Paso speech*
> 
> *Hidalgo County Sheriff Lupe Treviño *traveled to El Paso for Obamas appearance after he was invited late last week by White House officials.
> 
> We have 12 million illegal aliens in this country right now, the sheriff said. Theres *no way youre going to be able to deport or push back those people to their country of origin*. Thats *impossible.*
> Valley leaders applaud Obama's call for immigration reform after El Paso speech | obama, immigration, calling - TheMonitor.com
> 
> 
> 
> We did it twice before with less resources than we have now and we can do it again if we had the resolve to do it. Rounding them up and putting them on planes, trains, busses and ships in not the only way to get them to leave. If they cannot work they will self deport and we do that by enforcing our laws against business hiring illegal aliens. E-Verity system and fingerprint social security cards and repealing automatic birthright citizenship for children of illegal aliens if we are serious about ending illegal immigration. If we dont have to cajones to do this we will never stop illegal immigration.



Obama is a liberal so of course he lied.  He has an agenda, and it doesn't include preserving America, he wants to transform it.  He knows illegals are a large contribution to the downfall of our current health care system, and he has made it quite clear that he wants to destroy our health care system so he can create an all new government controlled one. 

 Obama doesn't give a rats ass about poor Mexicans looking for work, he doesn't even care about the millions of Americans looking for work.  But the illegals do serve a purpose for him politically.  More poor minorities, the easier it is for him and the progressives to do their community agitating, and to promote hatred and jealousy between the "haves" and the "have-nots".


----------



## mudwhistle

Obama lied about the GOP wanting a moat with gaters in it. 

We want sharks with fricken lazer-beams attached to their heads.


----------



## Angelhair

_Obama and his advisors will be shocked come 2012 to see how many latinos have jumped ship._


----------



## Angelhair

LilOlLady said:


> *ENFORCEMENT AND BORDER SECURITY NOT A TRADE OFF
> 
> FOR AMNESTY.*
> 
> 
> 
> Obamas speech in El Paso on immigration was directed to toward telling illegal aliens and supporters what he wanted them to hear. He was praising illegal immigrants as if they were the best thing that has happen to this country since apple pie and kool aid.
> 
> 
> 
> He said he has delivered what we ask for and now he want Comprehensive Immigration Reform. The border is more secure than ever, deportations are up, etc. but he lied.
> 
> 
> 
> *--Only 44% of the border is secure. Arizona is asking for public donation to build a fence.
> 
> --Drugs and illegal aliens are still coming in from Mexico and guns and drug money still going out to Mexico.
> 
> --Drug cartels are still operating in side our borders, growing marijuana in our national forests.
> 
> --State and local officials are still not required to arrest, detain and turn -----illegal aliens over to Federal Immigration authorities for deportation.
> 
> --Sanctuary cities are still harboring illegal aliens.
> 
> --We still have 14 million unemployed Americans and Obama still want keep 7.5 million illegal aliens taking jobs and lowering wages.*
> 
> 
> 
> Obama has not given us all we ask for. *Enforcement and border security is no where near a trade off for any form of amnesty. *Illegal immigration is not a *game between Democarts and Republicans*. Enforcement and border security is necessary  to avoid  Americans from becoming an *endangered species.*



_My guess is that americans already are an endangered species._


----------



## brokenarrow

LilOlLady said:


> brokenarrow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have 12 million illegal aliens in this country right now, the sheriff said. Theres *no way youre going to be able to deport or push back those people to their country of origin*. Thats *impossible.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The *Doolittle Raid*, on 18 April 1942, was the first air raid by the United States to strike the Japanese Home Islands (specifically Honshu) during World War II. By demonstrating that Japan itself was vulnerable to American air attack, it provided a vital morale boost and opportunity for U.S. retaliation after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941. The raid was planned and led by Lieutenant Colonel James "Jimmy" Doolittle. Doolittle would later recount in his autobiography that the raid was intended to bolster American morale and to cause the Japanese to begin doubting their leadership:
> The Japanese people had been told they were invulnerable ... An attack on the Japanese homeland would cause confusion in the minds of the Japanese people and sow doubt about the reliability of their leaders. There was a second, and equally important, psychological reason for this attack ... Americans badly needed a morale boost.[1]​Sixteen U.S. Army Air Forces B-25B Mitchell medium bombers were launched from the U.S. Navy's aircraft carrier USS _Hornet_ deep in the Western Pacific Ocean. The plan called for them to bomb military targets in Japan, and to continue westward to land in Chinalanding a medium bomber on the _Hornet_ was impossible. All of the aircraft involved in the bombing were lost and 11 crewmen were either killed or capturedwith three of the captured men executed by the Japanese Army in China. One of the B-25s landed in the Soviet Union at Vladivostok, where it was confiscated and its crew interned for more than a year. Thirteen entire crews, and all but one crewman of a 14th, returned either to the United States or to American forces.[2][3]
> 
> *The Doolittle raid was considered "impossible" to the Japs, but Americans do the impossible all the time during a war to free the captive world.*
> 
> *It would never have taken place if Mexicans ran the United States. That is the thing people should remember.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Japs" is not an abbreviation for Japanese. "Jap" became a degoratory during the war and still is a insult and ethnic slur to Japanese-Americans. Where are you coming from?
Click to expand...

 
You mean like a Mexican calling a white American a NAZI even though Mexicans were too terrified to actual fight NAZIs so all they did was declare war on Germany?

I'll bet when Adolph read the news about those tough guy Mexicans, he was really relieved.

"They'll come here and breed like Jews!!"


----------



## LilOlLady

*CROCK OF LIES.*

There is no end to how far supporters of illegal immigration will go to get amnesty. They failed five times trying to legalization all of them so they stoop to trying to legalize the children with the rhetoric that we educate them and they go home and take their education with them. That is a crock of shit I have ever heard. Those that come here to go to school pay for their education and had no intention of staying. Our children do the same thing. They go to school over seas and come back home. But it is not the same will children of illegal aliens who Obama and Reid want to legalize under the dream Act. WE do pay for their education and they dont leave and they dont want to leave. They fight deportation with a vengeance as of it is a punishment and never should  have been here in the first place. We dont have jobs for our own children so why should we pay to educate children of illegal aliens who will compete with our children for jobs?

Obama spinned the crock in El Paso and it encourages children of illegal aliens to protest deportations. Comparing their plight with the civil rights movement. Which is an insult to all Afro-American and should be to Obama. Obama do not give a crap about Americans and their children.


----------



## LilOlLady

IF you really listen to Obama's speech, he was not seriously selling immigration reform. *He is not stupid*. He had to attempt to offer reform knowing it doesn't have a chance in hell of passing any time in the near future. He don't really want to give amnesty to illegal aliens, *he only want votes and he got them for attempting*. If he was *serious* he would have got it passed when  democrate had control the last two years. I see through him and I am not alone, I heard the very same thing on FOXNEWS last night. He almost talked himself out of it. He talks out of both sides of his mouth to get votes from both sides.


----------



## LilOlLady

brokenarrow said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> brokenarrow said:
> 
> 
> 
> The *Doolittle Raid*, on 18 April 1942, was the first air raid by the United States to strike the Japanese Home Islands (specifically Honshu) during World War II. By demonstrating that Japan itself was vulnerable to American air attack, it provided a vital morale boost and opportunity for U.S. retaliation after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941. The raid was planned and led by Lieutenant Colonel James "Jimmy" Doolittle. Doolittle would later recount in his autobiography that the raid was intended to bolster American morale and to cause the Japanese to begin doubting their leadership:
> The Japanese people had been told they were invulnerable ... An attack on the Japanese homeland would cause confusion in the minds of the Japanese people and sow doubt about the reliability of their leaders. There was a second, and equally important, psychological reason for this attack ... Americans badly needed a morale boost.[1]​Sixteen U.S. Army Air Forces B-25B Mitchell medium bombers were launched from the U.S. Navy's aircraft carrier USS _Hornet_ deep in the Western Pacific Ocean. The plan called for them to bomb military targets in Japan, and to continue westward to land in Chinalanding a medium bomber on the _Hornet_ was impossible. All of the aircraft involved in the bombing were lost and 11 crewmen were either killed or capturedwith three of the captured men executed by the Japanese Army in China. One of the B-25s landed in the Soviet Union at Vladivostok, where it was confiscated and its crew interned for more than a year. Thirteen entire crews, and all but one crewman of a 14th, returned either to the United States or to American forces.[2][3]
> 
> *The Doolittle raid was considered "impossible" to the Japs, but Americans do the impossible all the time during a war to free the captive world.*
> 
> *It would never have taken place if Mexicans ran the United States. That is the thing people should remember.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Japs" is not an abbreviation for Japanese. "Jap" became a degoratory during the war and still is a insult and ethnic slur to Japanese-Americans. Where are you coming from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean like a Mexican calling a white American a NAZI even though Mexicans were too terrified to actual fight NAZIs so all they did was declare war on Germany?
> 
> I'll bet when Adolph read the news about those tough guy Mexicans, he was really relieved.
> 
> "They'll come here and breed like Jews!!"
Click to expand...


"Breed like Jews?" You are on a roll, Brokenarrow.
White American are not called Nazi.


----------



## LilOlLady

Angelhair said:


> _Obama and his advisors will be shocked come 2012 to see how many latinos have jumped ship._



I don't think they will jump ship. Even if they don't get amnesty this term they will still have hope in the next term. They don't have much choice. Herman Cain might work for them.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Ga. college student a reluctant immigration symbol - Yahoo! News

Just some points in the story that I thought merited a direct answer.

_Jessica Colotl has always tried to keep a low profile  obeying the speed limit, making sure her car's lights work properly  knowing that a brush with law enforcement could lead to her deportation and cost her a college diploma.

After a few close calls, her fears were realized last spring, when she was stopped for a minor traffic violation, charged with driving without a license and turned over to immigration authorities. She spent 37 days in a detention center in Alabama before authorities let her out and said they would give her a year to finish her studies at Kennesaw State University._

Excuse me?  WHY, precisely, are we concerned about her finishing her studies?  Are there any other criminals for whom we put off prosecution and punishment to allow them to go to school?

_"I think it's grossly unfair to the real immigrants who have followed the rules to come here legally," said D.A. King, founder of the Dustin Inman Society, which advocates stricter enforcement of immigration laws.

Through it all, the soft-spoken Colotl has been left wondering, "Why me?"_

Um, because you're a criminal, you dumb bitch.  You're in college, and you can't figure out something THAT simple?

_Colotl's case sparked public concerns that Georgia state colleges and universities were being overrun by illegal immigrants, that taxpayers were subsidizing their education and legal residents were being displaced. Yet a study conducted by the university system's Board of Regents found that less than 1 percent of the state's public college students were illegal immigrants, and that students who pay out-of-state tuition  which illegal immigrants are required to do  more than pay for their education._

Now how about the fact that THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE HERE?!  Could we perhaps address THAT?

_King, an ardent supporter of that bill, said he used Colotl's case last year to file a complaint against the Board of Regents. Young people like Colotl who were brought here by their parents present a sympathetic case, he said, but he blames their parents for their situation.

"I think Jessica Colotl should have been deported last year as an example to the parents who are shamelessly bringing their children into this country," he said._

No, I blame her parents for bringing her here as a child, but this whining twat is an adult now, who has deliberately and with malice aforethought chosen to remain in the country, knowing that she shouldn't be here.  Hell, the story tells you in the first paragraph how hard she's worked at hiding her crime from law enforcement.  Nothing sympathetic about premeditated criminal behavior, in my book.

_Despite all her troubles over the past year, Colotl doesn't regret her parents' decision to bring her here. 

"I would never dare to blame them for trying to give me a better life," she said._

Well, isn't that sweet, that she's learned such high moral standards that she doesn't blame her parents for breaking the law and harming other people in the service of their goals for her.  I guess she'd get equally soppy if they'd robbed a couple of banks to help support her over the years, too.

Wow, sure want THIS shining example of law-abiding integrity to hang around.  What a fantastic addition to the country.


----------



## tigerbob

MikeK said:


> tigerbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your critique is most appreciated.
> 
> *Am I correct in assuming that those who are too effectively indoctrinated to know, or who simply refuse to accept, that Bush's invasion of Iraq was illegal cannot be persuaded by anything I might have to say about it*?
> 
> Because this is a discussion forum I'm predisposed to the notion that anything I say is open to (hopefully sensible) debate, which probably is why I'm more inclined to invite discussion rather than to persuade on the basis of initial commentary.  So what are your thoughts on what I had to say?  Do you believe the Iraq invasion was legal?  Morally justifiable?  If not, why do you suppose the Bush crime family was allowed to get away with the conspiracy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Invading Iraq, in my opinion, should have been something that was promoted by the UN.  For many years, Saddam had been an unmitigated tyrant, responsible for the brutalizing of his own people.  This sort of behavior is exactly one of the sort of things the UN was supposed to address.  Of course , it doesn't, though I feel it has moved in the right direction with Libya.
> 
> *I think removing Saddam from power by force was the right thing to do.*
> 
> The reasons that were given for invading Iraq, again in my opinion, were paper thin and possibly in many ways fabricated.  The timing also made little or no sense.  In addition to that, having ousted Saddam, the countries involved did an awful job maintaining a functioning society as the transition to truly representative democracy was attempted.
> 
> With regard to the paragraph I highlighted in bold, it's not really for me to say what others may think, but your use of terms like "Indoctrination" and "Bush crime family" appear to make it clear what your position is towards those who supported the invasion of Iraq.  I would assume that those who you believe have been indoctrinated would probably be uninclined to consider your views, primarily because people tend not to react well to being told they have no mind of their own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Even though you believe the reasons given for invading Iraq, which, according to international law was a war crime, were "paper thin" (deliberate, systematic lies) and "the timing made little or no sense," you believe removing Saddam Hussein from power was the right thing to do?
> 
> Really?
> 
> Were you among the American troops who served under arms in Iraq?  If not, were any of the 4,400+ of those troops who died in Iraq related to you in some way?  If not, were any of the thousands who were physically or mentally crippled in that illegal invasion and occupation related to you?
> 
> Inasmuch as Iraq represented absolutely no threat or provocation to the United States, keeping in mind that the United States has never been appointed cops of the world, how about telling us in very specific terms why you believe the American and Allied soldiers who were killed, the bodies and minds that were ruined and the massive treasure expended are justifiable losses.
> 
> And while you're at it, can you think of any other "unmitigated tyrants" in the world whom you believe the U.S. should send its sons and brothers to die and be crippled, as well as expending treasure we simply cannot afford, in an effort to remove?
> 
> Also, considering the condition of Iraq before we invaded and the condition of that country now, and considering the number of Iraqis killed by our direct action, including innocent men women and children -- little tots, can you say our effort has benefited the Iraqi people?
Click to expand...


Your viewpoint is so far way from mine (and you sarcasm seems to indicate that won't be changing anytime soon) that it's probably a waste of time to engage with you on this.

No offense meant.  I just don't see a point.


----------



## LilOlLady

*WE ARE BEING HELD HOSTAGE BY ILLEGAL ALIENS 
ALIENS AMONG US*

Another immigration myth. Illegal aliens are not hiding in the shadows in *under ground bunkers*. The are everywhere you and I are. In our schools, medical and dental clinics, welfare office, stores, restaurants, prisons, in gangs dealing in drugs and defacing property with graffiti, in cities and neighborhoods where they tend to live,  and we do not have to *bribe them with amnesty *to draw the out of the shadows. If we can find one man half way across the nation we can surely find 20 million illegal aliens who are *hiding in plain sight*. We do not pay bribes to hostage takers. We do not deal with terrorist either. Illegal aliens are *terrorizing Americans*. They are not hard working law abiding people who only want *a better life *for their families. I dont have a problem with that. Just do not do it *in my country at my expense*. And all those little anchor babies are not all sucking pacifiers in strollers like *amnesty supporter like to describe them*. Some of them are old enough to vote and the are going to *vote in the best interest of their families*. Anyone who promises them amnesty. Anchors babies are what they are because *their parent are not seldom deported *because of them.

*No person is illegal.* Yes they are. If they are in the country illegally they are illegal. And illegal immigration is a crime and illegal aliens are criminals and *how do you catch a criminal? By profiling*.

*illegal alien*&#8194; 
noun 
1. 
a foreigner who has entered or resides in a country* unlawfully *or *without the country's authorization.* 
2. 
a foreigner who enters the U.S. *without an entry or immigrant visa*, especially a person who crosses the border by *avoiding inspection *or who *overstays the period of time allowed as a visitor, tourist, or businessperson*. Compare resident alien. 
Illegal immigrant | Define Illegal immigrant at Dictionary.com

I know many of you will call this post *racist and bigoted *but it is fact and we have 20 million in this country because we *refuse to deal with reality.*


----------



## LilOlLady

[B]The Dark Side Of Illegal ImmigrationFacts, Figures And Statistics On Illegal Immigration[/B]
Ignoring the "minor crime" such as ID theft and property crimes being committed by illegal aliens, here is a summary on some of the *collateral damage reaped in crimes as a result of tolerating illegal aliens* in the USA:

In tolerating illegal immigration, *how many Americans do YOU accept being molested, raped and murdered each year to save ten cents on a head of lettuce?*
Impacts of Illegal Immigration: Crime Summary


----------



## waltky

And now we know who's helpin' `em...

*Harry Reid: We Need The People Of America To Rise Up in Favor of Amnesty for Illegal Aliens*
_Wednesday, May 11, 2011 - Sen. Harry Reid (D-Nev.) is calling on Americans to rise up and express how important the DREAM Act is to them._


> Reid made the comments at a conference on Wednesday in support of the measure that would allow qualifying illegal aliens obtain legal residence status.  As was said yesterday in El Paso by the president, we need the people of America to rise up and indicate to each of us how important this legislation is, Reid said.  I believe that the people in America need to understand that these young men and women who want to be educated, who want to be able to serve the military. Its good for everybody.
> 
> Senator Reid along with Senators Robert Menendez (D-N.J.) and Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) say the Senate will bring the Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors (DREAM) Act to the floor for a vote. The measure previously failed to pass during the lame duck session of the last Congress when both chambers were under Democratic control.
> 
> The bill would allow qualifying illegal aliens to obtain legal residence status.  President Barack Obama addressed the previous failure of the DREAM Act and called for its future passage during his speech on immigration in El Paso, Texas yesterday.
> 
> Harry Reid:


----------



## LilOlLady

CHILDREN OF ILLEGAL ALIENS.

We do not punish poor little innocent children of illegal aliens when we deport their parents. (We all know some of the most dangerous gangs are made up of children of illegal aliens and our prisons are full of children of illegal aliens and children of illegal aliens are dealing the drugs that are smuggled in by illegal aliens) If the parent leaves the children here for tax payers to take care of they should be charged with child abandonment. Those that cross the border with children should be charged with child endangerment. Illegal aliens are teaching their children how to lie and steal when they enter the county illegally and work illegally. Let them go home and build a better life for themselves and their children in Mexico by creating jobs there.
We cannot continue to allow illegal aliens who have jackpot babies to remain in the country. That only encourage more illegal aliens coming here to have jackpot babies. Parents of jackpot babies are rarely deported. And the rhetoric that illegal aliens dont come here to have jackpot babies has failed. Pregnant women coming here to have their babies is big business and illegal aliens do come here to have jackpot babies. Fraud by mid-wives on border cities forge birth certificates for illegal aliens who bring children across the border with them. Automatic Birthright Citizenship has been abused by illegal aliens and made a mockery of and should be repealed retro-active. It also encourage more illegal immigration and more teen age pregnancies.
There are so many problems with illegal immigration that has to be fixed before we ever consider another amnesty. (Path to citizenship)


----------



## LilOlLady

25 YEARS LATER /20 MILLION ILLEGAL ALIENS LATER. 

Amnesty for 2.7 million illegal aliens in 1986 led to 20 million illegal aliens 25 years later and a failed economy. Where are the educated illegal aliens that were supposed to save our economy, save Social Security and Medicare, build industries that were suppose to create jobs? And Obama believe 20 million more will make a difference? Only jobs they created cost American tax payers more. Gang, graffiti and drug units, more prison guards, more policemen, more border patrol agents and ICE agents, teachers to teach their children English, more welfare workers, more clinics, doctors and nurses and longer waits in ER for Americans. These jobs they created are services for themselves and their children that taxpayers have had to pay for while they took their job and lowered their wages thus lowering the standard of living for hard working Americans.  
Legalization of 20 million illegal aliens while only lead to more of the same. A repeat of the past 50 years.
While Americans are struggling to make a better life for their families, Obama is helping illegal aliens make a better life off the backs of struggling Americans. Americans have to make sacrifices and sacrifice their children to make room for illegal aliens and their children. The price of amnesty is too high of a price to ask Americans to pay. We have absolutely nothing to gain by another amnesty by any name.


----------



## LilOlLady

BUSINESS THAT HIRE ILLEGAL ALIENS

Obama believes the only way to deal with the 20 million illegal aliens and illegal immigration is amnesty. But an all out assault on businesses that hire illegal aliens with mandatory E-Verily, finger printed social security cards, raids and fines would work more effectively and less costly and release jobs for the 14 million unemployed Americans. Jobs that Obama claim Americans will not do. I dont remember on single construction site ever being raided and releasing $20 an hour jobs for Americans? We need to put Americans back to work and they will fix our economy. Not importing more poverty.
If they cannot work they will leave and they will not come thus eliminating the need for Comprehensive Immigration Reform and amnesty. Lets make America great from within with empowering Americans and their children. Not by importing people to take jobs and compete with them. If we have to import workers, let them be those who have something to contribute.


----------



## iamwhatiseem

Woo are Congress members going to get to clean their houses and babysit their kids?


----------



## LilOlLady

MILLIONS OF ILLEGALS CRASHED THE LINE.

Something interesting happen yesterday at the food bank when there were about 50 people were in line and people came and broken in the line and almost caused a riot. Some people had been waiting in line for hours before the food bank even came and was pissed off. So you can imaging how pissed off immigrants who have been waiting in line for years are when illegal aliens illegally cross the border and crash the line. It is not fair and our government should send them to the back of the line and wait their turn.  We teach our children not to cheat and break into the line and yet our government aids people to crash the immigration line with amnesty. It is not fair and it should be illegal and unconstitutional. 
Just because they broken in the line do not give them the right to remain in the line. What about compassion for those who have been waiting for years. Where is the justice for them?


----------



## Truthmatters

tell me how long they wait in line?


----------



## brokenarrow

*THE FIRST IMMIGRATION OFFICE*​


----------



## Truthmatters

I think you may have it wrong , the first immigration office in this country was run by American Indians


----------



## brokenarrow

Truthmatters said:


> I think you may have it wrong , the first immigration office in this country was run by American Indians


 
What's American Indian for "immigration?






Massacre!​


----------



## LilOlLady

*Boundaries (borders) *
*Boundaries were set in place by God from the beginning of time and for a reason*. Gen 4;10,11....3;23,24... Gen 15;18-21. Ex 23;31..... To Abraham and his seed God promised a* certain land with definitely stated boundaries*. Gen 15;13-16.....would *enforce an eviction decree *when the error of the Amorites came to its completion. 
Deut 2;4,5,18,19....Jehovah God also decreed that the Israelites would *not encrouch on the boundaries *of the nations of Edom, .... Deut 32;8....when the Most High gave the nations an inheritance, when he parted the sons of Adam from one another, he proceeded to *fix the boundary of the people *with regard for the number of the sons of Israel. Eph 2;12-16....*Under penalty of death, Gentiles were prohibited beyond that boundary*, such wall serving the apostle as an apt illustration of the *division created by the Law covenant*.


----------



## LilOlLady

*You must not covet (desire)your fellow man&#8217;s house*.&#8221; (One of the ten commandments.) 
&#8220;Covetousness&#8221;= *greedy desire for what belongs to others*. This country is my home and for illegals to break in and take what is legally mine is a crime. The law protects a person&#8217;s house and so forth. The jobs, social services and benefits that is legally there for me is being stolen by the intruders (illegals ) that broke into my home. They also steal my social security number and my I.D. The law that is supposed to be there to protect me is aiding and abetting the intruder who committed the crime against me and my home. The minister and the church (members) that is giving sanctuary to the intruder is also breaking the law by aiding and abetting the intruder. Whomever is sanctioning this invasion (crime) of my home is breaking God&#8217;s law as


----------



## LilOlLady

*Boundaries; GOD given right.*
Countries have the right to set boundaries. GOD created the earth and Adam and Eve. From Adam and Eve came the entire human race. After they sinned he put them out of the Garden of Eden and put *two angels with flaming swords at the entrance so they could not get back in*. First boundaries. Human kind began to spread thorough out the earth. 
GOD told the Israelites to go in to the land of Canaan, kill every living thing and gave the land to the Israelites. *Boundaries were set again by the Israelites*.
*GOD gave man the right to posses land and set boundaries*. Because GOD allowed this and they were to be respected.
Mexico have boundaries and the consequences of disrespecting them can be imprisonment. *But Mexicans believe they have the GOD given right to disrespect and cross our borders and set up housekeeping, live and work, collect benefits as citizens.* But they are finding that not to be true. One by one States are cutting off jobs and benefits because the federal government will not enforce immigration laws and no work for them and they are leaving.



Rom 13;17..*let every soul be in subjection to superior authorities*. 
Titus 3;1..be *obedient to government and authorities *as rulers. 
Luke 2;1-a decree went forth from Caesar for all the inhabited earth to be *registered* 
Acts 24;16 am exercising myself continually  of committing no offense to GOD and men. (they are breaking our laws and GOD&#8217;s laws.) 
Rom 13;2-4 &#8221;he who opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of GOD those who have taken a stand against it will receive judgment..if you are doing what is bad, be in fear. Christians who subject themselves to proper authority of political government receive benefits .Rom 13;3,4 1Pet 2;12-


----------



## LilOlLady

*AMNESTY NOT BEST FOR U.S. OR MEXICO*

Amnesty for millions of Mexicans I not in the best interest of US of Mexico. Amnesty will take Mexicos brightest, youngest and strongest and will destroy Mexico. Our success and survival depend on the success and survival of a strong economy in Mexico. Just like our success depend on success in Afghanistan and Iraq. The more Mexicans we take in the more we have to take in and Mexico become dependent on us and the billions earned here that illegals send home and the billions we give them each year. We give Mexico billions because we have taken its workers who are not there to build a strong Mexico economy making Mexico more dependent on its people being here.

If we were really concerned about Mexican and Mexico we would to the right thing and send them home. The more we take from Mexico the more we have to give. It  is vital to our economy that Mexico win the war against drugs and against poverty and build a strong economy. And Mexico need its young and strong worker to do it. It Méxicos people were protesting there as hard as they are here for civil rights and jobs it would change Mexico for the best. People make changes.

If we dont stop this madness, we may as well give up and open the border. It would cost us less to send the home than to keep them.
Another amnesty will destroy us and destory Mexico.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Sign The Petition To Stop Immigration Now!*
Immigration Issues and Petition

*No longer active, but the message is still the same.:*clap2:


----------



## brokenarrow

LilOlLady said:


> *Sign The Petition To Stop Immigration Now!*
> Immigration Issues and Petition
> 
> *No longer active, but the message is still the same.:*clap2:


 
Check ALL!

The only way you're going to stop 'em now is with bullets.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Fixing the Immigration System for America&#8217;s 21st Century Economy*
*Advise the Advisor. Your direct line to the White House*

*How can immigration reform support America&#8217;s competitiveness in a 21st century economy?

What do you think are the biggest challenges to reforming America's immigration system?

What are some ways you can get a discussion going in your communities to encourage a bipartisan debate and move this issue forward?*



http://www.whitehouse.gov/advise?utm_source=email114&utm_medium=text2&utm_campaign=immigration

*Lets these idiots know how you really feel.*


----------



## LilOlLady

brokenarrow said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Sign The Petition To Stop Immigration Now!*
> Immigration Issues and Petition
> 
> *No longer active, but the message is still the same.:*clap2:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check ALL!
> 
> The only way you're going to stop 'em now is with bullets.
Click to expand...


That is extreme and it is not necessary. The mere presence of the military will stop them. Military at the doors of US corporations.


----------



## LilOlLady

Truthmatters said:


> tell me how long they wait in line?



The wait has *depended on the 20 million that have cut into line.* Those *20 million and the 3.7 million* of the 1986 amnesty who cut in line has made those waiting haveing to  wait longer.
In spite of that, *500,000 are allowed to enter legally each year*.
If they *stood up and fought back for better opportunities in Mexico*, they would not want to come here. But as cowards do they tuck tail and run to the nearest country that spread the wealth around. When our economy when bad they tuck their tails and ran home. American do not run from problems they stand an fight. And we are fight the invader and occupiers with all we have and we intend to win.


----------



## LilOlLady

brokenarrow said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you may have it wrong , the first immigration office in this country was run by American Indians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's American Indian for "immigration?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Massacre!​
Click to expand...

And it did not work. The first immigration office that worked was Ellis Island and we need an Ellis Island on the border.


----------



## LilOlLady

*High School Soccer Star Bernabe Rangel To Be Deported*

&#8220;Sometimes I think about second chances, but the* law is the law*, and *you have to go with it*,&#8221; Rangel said.

High School Soccer Star Bernabe Rangel To Be Deported

*

Rangel is doing what millions should be doing. Going back home and do it the righ way. If he parents had done it the right way in the beginning he would not have to undergo the unnecesary self deportation. He could have got a good education in Mexico. Many Americans go to Mexico toattent school. This in not a punishment either, it is correcting a wrong that was done to him by his parents and he should be mad as heck at them.

Why is his parent not being deported?:
*


----------



## Mad Scientist

"To be deported" does not mean "Will be deported". Every time some politician, in this case Obama, wants to enact illegal alien amnesty we see sob stories like this.

Don't fall for it, he won't be deported. Some ignorant politician who works for Mexico instead of us will pulls strings to have him stay.


----------



## Zander

Deport his sorry ass and kick him in the teeth on the way out. Then find his parents, deport them, and kick them in the teeth too.  Then work right through the entire family tree. Find 'em, Deport em,  kick 'em in teeth on the way out.


----------



## Angelhair

_I will believe it when I read/see it.  He will have all of the pro-illegal advocates on his door step to keep it from happening.  He ain't going anywhere!_


----------



## Moving to USA

Zander said:


> Deport his sorry ass and* kick him in the teeth on the way out*. Then find his parents, deport them, and* kick them in the teeth too.*  Then work right through the entire family tree. Find 'em, Deport em,  *kick 'em in teeth on the way out*.


Good thinking thinking bright one.

 next thing you know the U.S is sending trillions a year to fund the toothless mexican charities.


----------



## Jroc

Soccer is bigger in Mexico anyway


----------



## Moving to USA

Nobody,, NOBODY hates the illegal bean eating POS border jumpers more than I do. Nobody.
 I would love a law that says I can run them down in the street and not be fined or jailed.

 However, I cannot bring myself to trying to stop ANY individual from ANY country that goes through the proper process to become a citizen of this country. These people will have a dedication to the country, and they will bring with them reasons that they perceive the U.S to be better than where they came from. Those perceptions and the understanding of them is what makes this country so great.

 The illegal ones? just let me shoot at them without fear of going to jail.


----------



## hortysir

Where's the petition for an end to these kind of shit-posts?


----------



## sparky

Please answer the question(s) below. Please restrict your answers to no more than 2,500 characters.

*How can immigration reform support Americas competitiveness in a 21st century economy?
.Biggest Challenges to Reform: *

 Easy, let our citizens have first dibs at any of our country's benifits FIRST 

*What do you think are the biggest challenges to reforming America's immigration system?*
big business blowing $$$$$ on lobbyists to thwart it

which of course reduces 'lil folk like me to howling in the wilderness

like this nifty diversion 

*What are some ways you can get a discussion going in your communities to encourage a bipartisan debate and move this issue forward?*.
make HB-i visa status electable , once that hits a Congressional nerve , fruitful debate in lieu of the usual rhetoric may ensue


----------



## brokenarrow

LilOlLady said:


> brokenarrow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you may have it wrong , the first immigration office in this country was run by American Indians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's American Indian for "immigration?​
> 
> 
> 
> Massacre!​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And it did not work. The first immigration office that worked was Ellis Island and we need an Ellis Island on the border.
Click to expand...

 
Mexicans will just tunnel under it or climb over it.


----------



## brokenarrow

Moving to USA said:


> Nobody,, NOBODY hates the illegal bean eating POS border jumpers more than I do. Nobody.
> I would love a law that says I can run them down in the street and not be fined or jailed.
> 
> However, I cannot bring myself to trying to stop ANY individual from ANY country that goes through the proper process to become a citizen of this country. These people will have a dedication to the country, and they will bring with them reasons that they perceive the U.S to be better than where they came from. Those perceptions and the understanding of them is what makes this country so great.
> 
> The illegal ones? just let me shoot at them without fear of going to jail.


 
Latin America has lost all "immigration" privileges to the US for the next 50 years as far as I'm concerned. Let the rest of the 92% of the world get a chance to immigrate here. They should be exposed as invading foreigners who seek to destroy the American dream for others.


----------



## brokenarrow

hortysir said:


> Where's the petition for an end to these kind of shit-posts?


 
It's on the graves on American veterans which Mexico does not acknowledge.


----------



## peach174

brokenarrow said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> brokenarrow said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's American Indian for "immigration?​
> 
> 
> 
> Massacre!​
> 
> 
> 
> And it did not work. The first immigration office that worked was Ellis Island and we need an Ellis Island on the border.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mexicans will just tunnel under it or climb over it.
Click to expand...



Not if our Government would do the right thing and put troops on our boarders and made the announcement anyone crossing this boarder will be shot.


----------



## brokenarrow

peach174 said:


> brokenarrow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> And it did not work. The first immigration office that worked was Ellis Island and we need an Ellis Island on the border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mexicans will just tunnel under it or climb over it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not if our Government would do the right thing and put troops on our boarders and made the announcement anyone crossing this boarder will be shot.
Click to expand...

 
How about neutered?




​


----------



## HUGGY

LilOlLady said:


> MILLIONS OF ILLEGALS CRASHED THE LINE.
> 
> Something interesting happen yesterday at the food bank when there were about 50 people were in line and people came and broken in the line and almost caused a riot. Some people had been waiting in line for hours before the food bank even came and was pissed off. So you can imaging how pissed off immigrants who have been waiting in line for years are when illegal aliens illegally cross the border and crash the line. It is not fair and our government should send them to the back of the line and wait their turn.  We teach our children not to cheat and break into the line and yet our government aids people to crash the immigration line with amnesty. It is not fair and it should be illegal and unconstitutional.
> Just because they broken in the line do not give them the right to remain in the line. What about compassion for those who have been waiting for years. Where is the justice for them?



Can't be done in Seattle.  They, the volunteer workers, go out early and issue tickets with numbers on them.  Then they only allow those with the sequential numbers in.  Once in you have to sign in and they look you up in the computer system and present your "ticket".  Crashers get escorted out of the building.  I know this because I volunteer time at  the food bank once in a while.


----------



## Angelhair

_Might be bigger but not better pay.  Nothing like earning good ole american d.o.l.l.a.r.s!_


----------



## Zander

Moving to USA said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deport his sorry ass and* kick him in the teeth on the way out*. Then find his parents, deport them, and* kick them in the teeth too.*  Then work right through the entire family tree. Find 'em, Deport em,  *kick 'em in teeth on the way out*.
> 
> 
> 
> Good thinking thinking bright one.
> 
> next thing you know the U.S is sending trillions a year to fund the toothless mexican charities.
Click to expand...

Think of all the jobs for dentists!  The stimulative power of this idea is phenomenal. If you liked QE1 and 2- this would dwarf those....


----------



## brokenarrow

Jroc said:


> Soccer is bigger in Mexico anyway


 
You mean futbol!


----------



## LilOlLady

*RACIAL PROFILING AN EFFECTIVE TOOL*

Profiling illegal aliens is not unconstitutional are illegal according to the Federal Immigration and Nationality Act. When a person is stopped on a traffic violation, suspected crime or any minor violation and he does not have identification, driver license, social card, do no speak English, Hispanic looking and looking like they just crossed the border wrapped in a serape, wearing a sombrero and huaraches that is reasonable suspicion that they are illegal and should be turned over to Immigration for further investigation. Hispanic looking is just one of the many reasonable suspicions and race irrelevant. So profiling illegal aliens is not racial profiling. Are they not criminals?

The only reason Hispanic oppose profiling is because there are 20 million illegal aliens in this country and the majority are Hispanic. In 1953 profiling illegal aliens was not illegal and was the most effective tool in apprehending and deporting them and still is.

A white man on a bike robs a bank we do not stop every black man on a bike. 

Profiling any criminal and illegal aliens are very effective and necessary tools in apprehending them.




----------------------------------------------------------
*Is it because we are so inherently immoral, dishonest and corrupt that we question Obama's morality, honesty and integrity?"*


----------



## WillowTree

LilOlLady said:


> *Sign The Petition To Stop Immigration Now!*
> Immigration Issues and Petition
> 
> *No longer active, but the message is still the same.:*clap2:



Hey asshole. We don't want to stop immigration. We want to stop ILLEGAL immigration. take notes.


----------



## California Girl

WillowTree said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Sign The Petition To Stop Immigration Now!*
> Immigration Issues and Petition
> 
> *No longer active, but the message is still the same.:*clap2:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey asshole. We don't want to stop immigration. We want to stop ILLEGAL immigration. take notes.
Click to expand...


----------



## LilOlLady

*IF THEY ARE NOT WORKING, DEPORT THEM*

If illegal aliens come here to work and make a better life for their families then *those not working are either criminals or free loaders *and *not contributing to our economy *and should be *rounded up and deported*. Those working and contributing can stay as long as they are working.  And *empty our prisons of all criminal illegal aliens,* that is costing us billions and *deport them*. And at the border put *&#8220;flaming swords*&#8221; as GOD did at the gate of Eden when he *deported Adam and Eve*. But since we don&#8217;t have &#8220;flaming swords&#8221; *blazing guns and alligators *will do. (Gen 3;24) Since Obama want to* evoke the bible*.

If  millions illegal aliens were not here they would be in Mexico *working, creating jobs and making a better life for all of Mexico*.



_____________________________________________________
* . &#8220;Is it because we are so inherently, immoral, dishonest and corrupt that we question Obama's morality, honesty and integrity?"*


----------



## LilOlLady

hortysir said:


> Where's the petition for an end to these kind of shit-posts?



Up you know where.


----------



## LilOlLady

California Girl said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Sign The Petition To Stop Immigration Now!*
> Immigration Issues and Petition
> 
> *No longer active, but the message is still the same.:*clap2:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey asshole. We don't want to stop *immigration*. We want to stop ILLEGAL immigration. take notes.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

ASS HOLE, if you read the post you would know it is about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION and controlled immigration in time of war.
9-11 terrorist entered this country *legally* on visas?? We need *better control of legal immigration *also.


----------



## LilOlLady

brokenarrow said:


> Moving to USA said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody,, NOBODY hates the illegal bean eating POS border jumpers more than I do. Nobody.
> I would love a law that says I can run them down in the street and not be fined or jailed.
> 
> However, I cannot bring myself to trying to stop ANY individual from ANY country that goes through the proper process to become a citizen of this country. These people will have a dedication to the country, and they will bring with them reasons that they perceive the U.S to be better than where they came from. Those perceptions and the understanding of them is what makes this country so great.
> 
> The illegal ones? just let me shoot at them without fear of going to jail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Latin America has lost all "immigration" privileges to the US for the next 50 years as far as I'm concerned. Let the rest of the 92% of the world get a chance to immigrate here. They should be exposed as invading foreigners who seek to destroy the American dream for others.
Click to expand...


Let those immigrate that has something to offer, not the free loaders coming from the south.


----------



## LilOlLady

Mad Scientist said:


> "To be deported" does not mean "Will be deported". Every time some politician, in this case Obama, wants to enact illegal alien amnesty we see sob stories like this.
> 
> Don't fall for it,* he won't be deported*. Some ignorant politician who works for Mexico instead of us will pulls strings to have him stay.



He is not waiting to be *deported,* he is leaving on his own and come back legally.


----------



## hortysir

So, because they're from our southern border, they have nothing to offer?


----------



## California Girl

LilOlLady said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey asshole. We don't want to stop *immigration*. We want to stop ILLEGAL immigration. take notes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ASS HOLE, if you read the post you would know it is about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION and controlled immigration in time of war.
> 9-11 terrorist entered this country *legally* on visas?? We need *better control of legal immigration *also.
Click to expand...


Idiot. You said you wanted to stop immigration. Immigrants built this country. Immigrants will continue to build it. Sure, we need better controls, we need to stop being politically correct, and we need to stop the illegals... and send those who are here home. 

But I will not sign a petition to stop immigration, that is for the racists and the ignorant. That'll be you.


----------



## hortysir

LOL needs to build a wall around her/his house, shut down all outside communication, and not breed.


----------



## Flopper

Immigration is what made this a great country.  Without it there would be no country.


----------



## brokenarrow

hortysir said:


> So, because they're from our southern border, they have nothing to offer?


 




These people can't even figure out that you ride a train in the passenger car.


----------



## brokenarrow

California Girl said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASS HOLE, if you read the post you would know it is about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION and controlled immigration in time of war.
> 9-11 terrorist entered this country *legally* on visas?? We need *better control of legal immigration *also.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Idiot. You said you wanted to stop immigration. Immigrants built this country. Immigrants will continue to build it. Sure, we need better controls, we need to stop being politically correct, and we need to stop the illegals... and send those who are here home.
> 
> But I will not sign a petition to stop immigration, that is for the racists and the ignorant. That'll be you.
Click to expand...







Then why don't YOU give these guys a home? ​


----------



## brokenarrow

Flopper said:


> Immigration is what made this a great country. Without it there would be no country.


 
Without immigrants, we would have only the settlers that built the United States.


----------



## hortysir

brokenarrow said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Immigration is what made this a great country. Without it there would be no country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Without immigrants, we would have only the settlers that built the United States.
Click to expand...

You really ARE that stupid, aren't you?!


----------



## brokenarrow

hortysir said:


> brokenarrow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Immigration is what made this a great country. Without it there would be no country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Without immigrants, we would have only the settlers that built the United States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You really ARE that stupid, aren't you?!
Click to expand...

 
Since you were brainwashed in LA RAZA controlled public schools, I will forgive you for ignoring the truth.

What does LA RAZA call the Jamestown *Settlement*? The WhiteMan Immigrant Center for killing Home Boy Mexicanos?


----------



## waltky

Migrants startin' to have second thoughts about comin' to America...

*Will violence in Mexico impact immigrant pool in US?*
_May 17, 2011 - Seven top immigration officials in Mexico have been fired in states where migrants have been victimized. Recently, a group of rescued kidnap victims accused officials of delivering them to drug gangs._


> Is crime in Mexico driving down immigration to the US?  US Customs and Border Protection recently released data showing the number of those arrested trying to cross the US-Mexico is down sharply. There were 447,731 undocumented immigrants arrested in fiscal year 2010, reported CNN. That is a 58 percent decrease from fiscal year 2006.  Officials say that the number of agents along the border, which doubled during the same time frame, has played a preventive role.  But it seems that migrants are also weighing the pros of earning American dollars against the real threat that criminals in Mexico will take their lives before they even get the chance.   Migrants, mostly from Central America, have long talked about the perils of traversing Mexico. As we reported in July 2007 from Tapachula &#8211; along Mexico&#8217;s southern border &#8211; migrants, even children, have always faced robbery, threats, and extortion from smugglers, corrupted immigration officials, and common criminals.
> 
> But stolen cash and even beatings were the kinds of risks poor migrants were willing to take.  Now, anecdotally at least, they are becoming much more cautious.  Last summer, a photographer and I visited the town of Tultitlan north of Mexico City. It is an industrial crossroads where migrants switch trains en route to the US. Several of them told us of the dangers they faced, big and small. One man from Nicaragua, Juan Palacios, was traveling with a friend who was kidnapped while waiting for a train. Mr. Palacios escaped the same fate, and made it to Tultitlan where he refused to go further.  This was right before the news of the massacre of 72 migrants last August in northern Mexico, on a ranch across the border from Texas, rocked Mexico. The migrants, mostly from Central America, were allegedly snatched off a bus and killed by the notorious Zetas drug-trafficking gang after refusing to work as recruits.
> 
> This spring, reports of missing bus passengers began surfacing in Tamaulipas. Weeks later mass graves were found, with some 200 bodies so far found in this one area alone. It is unclear how many of them are migrants. But a group of rescued migrants who had been kidnapped recently claimed that immigration officials delivered them to drug groups.  As drug crime grows, it seems, the shakedown has turned into something far riskier.  Shaken by the news, Mexico recently pledged &#8211; again &#8211; to root out corruption. The immigration agency fired seven officials last week in the states of Tamaulipas, Veracruz, Tabasco, Oaxaca, Mexico State, San Luis Potosí, and Quintana Roo.  The institution&#8217;s head said they will also resort to lie detector tests to ensure a clean institution.  But the police have also been undergoing a series of confidence testing since Mexican President Felipe Calderón took office promising to reform the police, and that has done little to restore citizen faith in their cops. In fact, among the first arrests in the mass graves case of Tamaulipas? The municipal police.
> 
> Source



See also:

*Guatemala Declares 'State of Siege' After Massacre of Field Workers*
_May 17, 2011 - Guatemala's government has declared a "state of siege" in the Peten region near Mexico's border in response to the recent massacre of nearly 30 field workers on a ranch in the area._


> President Alvaro Colom has said the state of siege -  which suspends constitutional guarantees - was put into effect to give authorities time to track down the killers.  The government has blamed Mexico's Zetas drug gang for the massacre, which has been described as one of Guatemala's worst mass killings in a generation.  Police have said most of the victims were beheaded.
> 
> Mexican drug cartels face an escalating crackdown at home and are expanding their operations in neighboring countries.  Authorities have said that of the various Mexican drug gangs operating in Guatemala, the Zetas seem to have made the most inroads.  In Mexico, the Zetas have been hit hard by the military and federal police since President Felipe Calderon took office in late 2006 and began a crackdown on organized crime groups.
> 
> Last year, a U.S. State Department report said entire regions of Guatemala are now essentially under the control of the Zetas.  The Zetas began as a Mexican military unit that defected and began working with the Gulf cartel, based in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, just across the border from the U.S. city of El Paso, Texas.  The Zetas split from the Gulf cartel last year.  The two groups are now fierce rivals.
> 
> Source


----------



## waltky

Zetas tryin' to take over Guatemala...

*Guatemala massacre points to influence of Mexican drug gang*
_May 18, 2011 - Guatemala has declared a state of emergency after the murder of 27 people in the northern part of the country. The Zetas of Mexico are accused of the worst massacre since the end of the country's civil war._


> A massacre in northern Guatemala, which has left at least 27 people dead, is another reminder of the growing influence exerted by powerful Mexican drug gang, the Zetas, in Central America.  The Zetas may have first entered Guatemala at the invitation of two drug bosses, Otoniel Turcios and Hearst Walter Overdick. But instead of partnering with local Guatemalan smugglers, the Mexicans became intent on displacing them.
> 
> The Zetas cemented their presence in Guatemala in 2008, when they ambushed and killed local crimelord Juan Jose Leon. Dislodging the Leon clan gave the Zetas power over key trafficking routes in the northern departments of Zacapa, Alta Verapaz, and Peten. It was in the latter that the recent massacre took place. In Peten, the government has now declared a "state of siege" similar to the security surge that failed to drive Zetas from Alta Verapaz at the end of last year.
> 
> As proved by the Peten killings, the Zetas' presence in Guatemala has drawn attention because of their willingness to use brutality. In contrast to the other Mexican cartel with sizeable presence in Central America, that of Sinaloa, the Zetas have frequently used extreme violence to establish control over a territory. While the Sinaloans have attempted to maintain their operations in Guatemala's western Huehuetenango department by buying the silence of authorities and negotiating deals with local traffickers, the Zetas have proven themselves more disposed to fight and kill their rivals.
> 
> In other Northern Triangle countries, the Zetas have been more accomodating to local gangs, although no less ambitious in expanding their operations. As recently noted by El Salvador President Mauricio Funes, the Zetas have made contact with gangs like the Mara Salvatrucha (MS-13) and the Barrio 18 [18], which echoes statements made by the president and the defense minister in 2010.
> 
> MORE



See also:

*Guatemalan President: Nation Must Confront Drug Violence*
_May 17, 2011 - Guatemalan President Alvaro Colom has told the nation that Guatemala must stand up to drug-related violence._


> He made the remark in a televised address late Monday after visiting the site of a mass murder in Guatemala's Peten province.  Officials have blamed the killing of nearly 30 field workers, including two women and at least two children, on the Zetas drug cartel.  Colom said drug-related violence affects not just Guatemala, but the whole region.  He announced a state of emergency that gives security forces increased authority.
> 
> The bodies of the victims were found Sunday on a ranch near the Mexican border.  Police said most of the victims were decapitated.  Authorities have described the incident as one of the country's worst mass killings in a generation.  Officials have said, that of the various Mexican drug gangs operating in Guatemala, the Zetas seem to have made the most inroads.  In Mexico, the Zetas have been hit hard by the military and federal police since President Felipe Calderon took office in late 2006 and began a crackdown on organized crime groups.
> 
> Last year, a U.S. State Department report said entire regions of Guatemala are now essentially under the control of the Zetas.  The Zetas began as a Mexican military unit that defected and began working with the Gulf cartel, based in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, just across the border from the U.S. city of El Paso, Texas.  The Zetas split from the Gulf cartel last year.  The two groups are now fierce rivals.
> 
> sOURCE


----------



## whitehall

Mexican authorities stopped a tractor trailer bound for the US today and found a hundred people crammed into the back. Seven different countries were represented in the human debris bound for the US. The question now is whether we should be the only country in the entire world to open our borders. Should we give amnesty to the whole world or just the corrupt country on our southern border?


----------



## LilOlLady

*PRO-AMNESTY, DREAM ACT PROPAGANDA *
*Illegal aliens in the military*.
Lawrence McDonnell has a commercial about an illegal alien who got killed in the military and was given citizenship after his death and it was too late. Use this as an excuse for the Dream Act. He never should have been allow in the military in the first place. This young man would have better served us and his country by enlisting in the Mexican military fighting drug cartels. If Mexico wins the war against drug cartels, we all win. How about the 15-25 Americans killed by illegal aliens each day. They will never fully experience their American citizenship. 
Bryan Stow would be alive today if we had got rid of Hispanic gangs and will never see his children grow and experience their American citizenship. These are the things pro-amnesty and Dream Act  advocated never talk about and even acknowledge they even exist.
You cannot take a few incident of illegal aliens in the military and in school as an excuse to legalize 20 million people.

*Illegal aliens in our schools*.
We do not need the Dream Act to make it easier for children of illegal aliens to achieve a higher education and take jobs from children of Americans. American children are leaving the country to get jobs after graduation. Especially teachers. Dream Act create competition for jobs that we do not even have. Dream Act kills our childrens American dream.
Lets discuss illegal aliens violence against American and try and convince me that Amnesty and Dream Act is the right thing to do for Americans and America. 


*My brother is dead because of illegal aliens.*
My brother had a lucrative painting business and hired several people.  Was buying a home and had rental properties. Job after jobs he was under bidded on jobs by those who could do the jobs cheaper. Finally he could not keep his business afloat and keep the employees he had. His wife go sick and died. He lost his home and rental property and was homeless. He lost everything he had worked all his life for and the finally took his life. I will be an advocate for legal immigration, enforcement and border security as long as there is a breath left in me.
Many of my friends children were destroyed by drugs smuggled in from Mexico by illegal aliens. 
Our prisons are full of illegal aliens how have killed Americans, raped children and committed other crimes. Our neighborhoods are full of dangerous Hispanic gangs that deal drugs and terrorize neighborhoods.
There is probably not a chance in hell that illegal immigration will ever touch the lives of people like Lawrence McDonnell, Luis Gutierrez, Stuart Anderson of CATO and Obama and his family. I am many Americans live it 24-7. 
Amnesty did not fix illegal immigration in 1986 because we did not have the cajones to enforce the *Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986* and use the *Employment Eligibility Verification Form 1-9.*  The *E-Verify *system works only if it is used. Laws are only good if there are enforce. You can check your own work eligibility in a few minutes.


----------



## Truthmatters

I guess some people need a boogeyman.


Im sorry for your pain but heaping pain on others will not soothe it.


----------



## luckystrike

Truthmatters said:


> I guess some people need a boogeyman.
> 
> 
> Im sorry for your pain but heaping pain on others will not soothe it.


 
So do nothing. That's your motto?


----------



## LilOlLady

Truthmatters said:


> I guess some people need a boogeyman.
> 
> 
> Im sorry for your pain but *heaping pain on others *will not soothe it.



Worked for the families of victims of 9-11 when OBL was finally killed?


----------



## LilOlLady

Truthmatters said:


> I guess some people need a boogeyman.
> 
> 
> Im sorry for your pain but *heaping pain on others *will not soothe it.



Would you care to expound on that assumption? That I because I want our immigration laws enforced, illegal immigration to end and illegal aliens deported is heaping pain on others? Sending Mexican back to Mexico is not a death sentence, etc. Mexico is economically capable of taking care of it's own but If we do it for them why would they do it. President Calerone encourage illegal immigration because it benefits Mexico if we take it's poor. I am not suggesting we kill Mexican. Just deport them before they killed any more Americans. I don't want others to feel my pain.


----------



## LilOlLady

Truthmatters said:


> I guess some people need a boogeyman.
> 
> 
> Im sorry for your pain but heaping pain on others will not soothe it.



*CRIME VICTIMS OF ILLEGAL ALIENS*
Americans are being murdered, killed, and maimed by criminals who pass through the nation's open borders.  

The increased crime rates we are witnessing are the typical result of massive, uncontrolled, illegal immigration. 

The following is a symbolic tribute to the many unnamed victims who have been killed, raped, robbed, crippled and otherwise personally violated by illegal aliens.  

It is disgraceful that the government refuses to protect U.S. citizens in the most basic ways from the world's terrorists and criminals who come and go across our borders as they please.  The borders are nearly wide open as the human carnage due to crimes perpetrated by illegal aliens grows continues grow out of control.  Another stunning example of INS incompetence and malfeasance, is that the INS often can not even manage to deport dangerous criminal illegal aliens when they reach the ends of their prison terms.  Often, they are simply released. 

CRIME VICTIMS OF ILLEGAL ALIENS

These people would still be alive if we enforced our immigration laws. My brother was not killed by criminal illegal aliens but by hard working people who just want a better life. Make no difference to me. And I don't blame them as much as I blame our government.


----------



## JBeukema

Truthmatters said:


> I guess some people need a boogeyman.
> 
> 
> .











*For the race, everything. Outside the race, nothing

*

Oh, wait, that was actually MECHa​


----------



## LilOlLady

*Mexico, concerned the U.S. deportation of criminals*
27/05/1911 

*MEXICO* .- Mexican border mayors expressed concern that a ruling by the Supreme Court of the United States who ordered California to reduce its prison population will result in deportation to the country of more people with criminal records, which could cause a problem insecurity in their cities. "There is an indication that they will leave and clean ... in California prisons," said Manuel Baldenebro, mayor of San Luis Rio Colorado, a municipality in the northern state of Sonora bordering Arizona and close to California, U.S. .
Noticias: Las &#250;ltimas noticias internacionales en espa&#241;ol - AOL Noticias


----------



## LilOlLady

Truthmatters said:


> I guess some people need a boogeyman.
> 
> 
> Im sorry for your pain but heaping pain on others will not soothe it.



After 9-11 we heaped much pain on innocent Iraqis and Afghanistans and felt more pain with the lost of over 5,000 young american men and women and billions of dollars.


----------



## luckystrike

LilOlLady said:


> *Mexico, concerned the U.S. deportation of criminals*
> 27/05/1911
> 
> *MEXICO* .- Mexican border mayors expressed concern that a ruling by the Supreme Court of the United States who ordered California to reduce its prison population will result in deportation to the country of more people with criminal records, which could cause a problem insecurity in their cities. "There is an indication that they will leave and clean ... in California prisons," said Manuel Baldenebro, mayor of San Luis Rio Colorado, a municipality in the northern state of Sonora bordering Arizona and close to California, U.S. .
> Noticias: Las últimas noticias internacionales en español - AOL Noticias


 
Mexico is responsible for products made in Mexico.


----------



## dmr2701

Dear LilOlLady,

I'm so sorry you lost your brother to an illegal alien. I've read some of your comments and your Bible verses regarding illegal aliens not being neighbors and I agree. Thanks for posting those things. Very enlightening.


----------



## BolshevikHunter

To be fair, Most of them come here to work so they can feed their families. Yes some are career criminals, but most of them are very good people. It's our corrupt Government who turns the blind eye to illegal immigration. ~BH


----------



## LilOlLady

*ANTI-AMERICAN DREAM ACT*

The Dream Act is an *under-handed attempt to take the place of Comprehensive Immigration Reform* that failed to pass three times that would put 20 million illegal aliens on path to citizenship. If they can pass the Dream Act for children of illegal aliens it will *close the door to deporting the parents*. 

The Dream Act is the most destructive way to destroy American childrens dream. *It takes federal grants away from American children and give them to children of illegal aliens*. It *create more competition for American children to get jobs *to help them as they go to college and *create more competition for them to get jobs after graduation*. By making it *easier for children of illegal aliens to go to school *it makes it *harder for American children*. We have American children who cannot go to college now because illegal aliens have taken jobs away from their parents and jobs are leaving the country. *14 million American are unemployed *and *8 million illegal aliens are in our workforce* and the other 12 million are doing God only knows what. Only *2% of the 8 million illegal aliens are picking lettuce*.  American graduates are having to leave the country to find jobs. Jobs are leaving the country and American children are going over to go to school. What is wrong with this picture.

States are *taking funding from our schools to balance their budgets*. *Schools are closing *as a result. *Teacher are losing their jobs *and Obama and Lawrence McDonnell, etc want to* take more from our children with the Dream Act*.

The Dream Act is* anti-American children and anti-America *because  it will *adversely affect very American paren*t. Illegal aliens will still *take jobs from Americans*. If we made is *easier for American children to go to college *we would not have to educate children of illegal aliens to be builders of our economy. 

American children are *dropping out of school *because they have no hope of affording to go to college. We are no longer into nation building but into nation survival. The statue of liberty is not longer useful as a beacon.

Obama and Lawrence McDonnell, etc do not want to* hear this or even talk *about *how illegal immigration is hurting Americans*. They turn *deaf ears and blind eyes *to the real solution to illegal immigration which is *enforcement *and see *amnesty as the only solution*.



*What I Did When I Couldn't Find a Job* 
July 18, 2010
What I Did When I Couldn't Find a Job - The Chronicle Review - The Chronicle of Higher Education


----------



## LilOlLady

*Mexican-American students walk out of school that almost suspended American flag t-shirt wearing students. *Why?
Submitted by modesta2 
on *Sat, 2010-*


A melee occured when the students who walked out ran into *a disabled parent outside of the high school* and a fight ensued as the teens chanted *"Mexico, Mexico*".


There was *a tug-a-war between a student and the disable parent fighting over a Mexican flag*.


Mexican-American students walk out of school that almost suspended American flag t-shirt wearing students. Why? | The Hive

Is this the same *Cinco De Mayo incident *we were just discussing?


----------



## LilOlLady

*Illegal American students in Mexico demand respect*May 8, 2010

I still don&#8217;t understand how *Americans displaying the American flag inside of the United States *is any way offensive to immigrants. Seriously. I can&#8217;t imagine traveling to Mexico and being offended by *Mexicans displaying the Mexican flag*.

Illegal American students in Mexico demand respect | The Real Revo


----------



## LilOlLady

*Welcome to Calexico.**April 2006*
snopes.com: Mexican Flag at Montebello High School


----------



## Grace

They want the border states back and this is a prelude?


----------



## LilOlLady

*Sending a Child to School in Mexico*by Molly McHugh

Sending a Child to School in Mexico
*
Sound as good an any US public or private schools.*


----------



## Mad Scientist

Grace said:


> They want the border states back and this is a prelude?


Reconquista.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Grace*
> They want the border states back and this is a prelude?



Mexicans weren't even thinking about the northern provinces lost to the USA until America took the absolutely insane decision to destroy the ethnic makeup of the nation by allowing massive non-white legal immigration and ignoring illegal immigration during the 50's and 60's.

All the chicano/mexican/hispanic nationalist groups that exist in America today are the direct result of that crazy but sovereign decision. 

But this does not prevent people from using the "poor me thing" over and over and over ("big, bad Mexico is killing us", etc, etc, etc...).


----------



## José

"US government is killing us" would be more appropriate.


----------



## Mad Scientist

Mexico is a wonderful place, that's why 40% of them want to leave.


----------



## GHook93

Amazing as it sounds Jose is right!



			
				José;3710030 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *Grace*
> They want the border states back and this is a prelude?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mexicans weren't even thinking about the northern provinces lost to the USA until America took the absolutely insane decision to destroy the ethnic makeup of the nation by allowing massive non-white legal immigration and ignoring illegal immigration during the 50's and 60's.
> 
> All the chicano/mexican/hispanic nationalist groups that exist in America today are the direct result of that crazy but sovereign decision.
> 
> But this does not prevent people from using the "poor me thing" over and over and over ("big, bad Mexico is killing us", etc, etc, etc...).
Click to expand...


----------



## LilOlLady

José;3710030 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *Grace*
> They want the border states back and this is a prelude?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mexicans weren't even thinking about the northern provinces lost to the USA until America took the absolutely insane decision to destroy the ethnic makeup of the nation by allowing massive non-white legal immigration and ignoring illegal immigration during the 50's and 60's.
> 
> All the chicano/mexican/hispanic nationalist groups that exist in America today are the direct result of that crazy but sovereign decision.
> 
> But this does not prevent people from using the "poor me thing" over and over and over ("big, bad Mexico is killing us", etc, etc, etc...).
Click to expand...


It is not the 'big bad Mexico" but the "poor me" Mexican rhetoric that our country fall for. Mexico is not a third world country and is capable of taking care of it's own and we need to send their poor back and force them to take responsibility or else. Not our problem. And Mexicans are not indigeous to North America but Blacks are indigeous to Mexico. And for that matter to North America also because they were here long before the Mayflower.
The white man in the 50s came bearing gifts but Meixcans came looking for gifts.
Lost? US paid Mexico 13 million for a piece of barren land. Get over it.
It is the poorest of Mexico that is killing us.


----------



## LilOlLady

Mad Scientist said:


> Mexico is a wonderful place, that's why 40% of them want to leave.



*Mexico is a wonderful place but the reason they leave is because we are more generous in spreading the wealth around. WE give freebies as the expense of others. Mexico don't. American go to Mexico to retire because of the cost of living. Americans go to Mexico to school. They have very good schools.*

*WHY MEXICAN LEAVE MEXICO.*
Many mexicans for many reasons drop out of school and end up doing unskilled labor for a meager income. Many mexicans have realized that they can work as maids, farm pickers, construction workers and other forms of low skill labor for more money in the US and have emigrated illegally.

Mexicans with university degrees generally tend to go to the US by the legal route or simply stay in Mexico because *university degrees (except in entry level jobs) pay pretty well enough to have a modest living*.

WHY MEXICANS WANTS TO LEAVE MEXICO? - Yahoo! Answers

*Sound much like the good old USA*.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Mexico Unemployment Rate*

The unemployment rate in Mexico was last reported at *5.1 percent in April of 2011*. From 2000 until 2010, Mexico's Unemployment Rate *averaged 3.45 percent *reaching an *historical high of 5.93 percent in May of 2009 *and *a record low of 2.22 percent in November of 2002.* The labour force is defined as the number of people employed plus the number unemployed but seeking work. The nonlabour force includes those who are not looking for work, those who are institutionalised and those serving in the military. This page includes: Mexico Unemployment Rate chart, historical data and news.
Mexico Unemployment Rate



*Can anyone live on minimum wage in Mexico*?
August 30, 2010
by Arjan Shahani
http://www.americasquarterly.org/node/1798


*If Mexicans do not like the minimum wage then they should do as we do to change things and not tuck their tails and leave.*
Is there no work in Mexico or no Mexican workers? Wages in Mexico is comprable to cost of living.


----------



## Vindicator

LilOlLady said:


> *Mexican-American students walk out of school that almost suspended American flag t-shirt wearing students. *Why?
> Submitted by modesta2
> on *Sat, 2010-*
> 
> 
> A melee occured when the students who walked out ran into *a disabled parent outside of the high school* and a fight ensued as the teens chanted *"Mexico, Mexico*".
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00lx122GhTo
> 
> There was *a tug-a-war between a student and the disable parent fighting over a Mexican flag*.
> 
> 
> Mexican-American students walk out of school that almost suspended American flag t-shirt wearing students. Why? | The Hive
> 
> Is this the same *Cinco De Mayo incident *we were just discussing?


 

LA RAZA disabled your youTube. Those bastards!!!


----------



## Douger

Jesse Ventura is trying to become a Mexican citize... - AOL Video


----------



## Vindicator

José;3710030 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *Grace*
> They want the border states back and this is a prelude?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mexicans weren't even thinking about the northern provinces lost to the USA until America took the absolutely insane decision to destroy the ethnic makeup of the nation by allowing massive non-white legal immigration and ignoring illegal immigration during the 50's and 60's.
> 
> All the chicano/mexican/hispanic nationalist groups that exist in America today are the direct result of that crazy but sovereign decision.
> 
> But this does not prevent people from using the "poor me thing" over and over and over ("big, bad Mexico is killing us", etc, etc, etc...).
Click to expand...

 
The US Code is full of laws covering what these little punks are doing. They are trying to take over the country for Mexico. That's a 5-10 year sentence in convicted. It's not about immigration and it never was. 

What does Mexico say about this?


----------



## Vindicator

Douger said:


> Jesse Ventura is trying to become a Mexican citize... - AOL Video


 

He wants "dual citizenship". That way he can shit on a Mexican flag and Mexicans can't do a thing about it. It is impossible for Mexicans to "disrespect" anything, according to LA RAZA!


----------



## Angelhair

José;3710033 said:
			
		

> "US government is killing us" would be more appropriate.



_What is there to kill???  They are doing a good job of killing themselves!_


----------



## Angelhair

José;3710030 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *Grace*
> They want the border states back and this is a prelude?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mexicans weren't even thinking about the northern provinces lost to the USA until America took the absolutely insane decision to destroy the ethnic makeup of the nation by allowing massive non-white legal immigration and ignoring illegal immigration during the 50's and 60's.
> 
> All the chicano/mexican/hispanic nationalist groups that exist in America today are the direct result of that crazy but sovereign decision.
> 
> But this does not prevent people from using the "poor me thing" over and over and over ("big, bad Mexico is killing us", etc, etc, etc...).
Click to expand...


_All that the USA has done is given them enough rope to destroy themselves and apparently has succeeded.  Mexicans don't think - they rule themselves by emotions._


----------



## waltky

Judge cuts sentence in half for repeat illegal immigrant...

*Judge cuts recommended sentence in half for Dominican national who reentered country after deportation*
_Thursday, June 2, 2011 - Man had his fingerprints removed to mask his true identity_


> A Dominican national who had his fingerprints removed to mask his true identity was sentenced to two years in federal prison on Wednesday for reentering the country after he had previously been deported.  Chief U.S. District Court Judge Mary M. Lisi imposed the sentence, which was 22 months shorter than the penalty sought by the government. Moments before the sentencing, Robert M. Cordero-Luciano, through an interpreter, provided Lisi with a moving plea about how he has stopped using drugs and how he had used time productively during his incarceration at the Donald W. Wyatt Detention Facility. He has been there since arrest nine months ago.
> 
> Cordero-Luciano, 27, clutched a photograph of his young daughter and told Lisi he had no intention of returning to the United States. Instead, he said, he wanted to provide for his wife and daughter in Santo Domingo.  His argument swayed the judge.  You got a break today, Lisi told him. But, its the last one youre going to get.  Once Cordero-Luciano completes his sentence, he will be turned over to Immigration and Customs Enforcement. He will remain in the agencys custody until he is returned to the Dominican Republic.  The state police arrested Cordero-Luciano last summer after he went to the Registry of Motor Vehicles in Pawtucket and presented a clerk with a forged license from Puerto Rico. He was trying to obtain a Rhode Island drivers license.  The clerk contacted the authorities and Cordero-Luciano was brought to the Lincoln state police barracks for further questioning. There, the police discovered that the suspects fingerprints had been burnt or mutilated, beyond recognition.
> 
> The police were not able to lift his fingerprints, so investigators got his true identity after they ran his image through a national database.  It turned out that Luciano-Cordero had four different Massachusetts drivers licenses with different names, birth dates and Social Security numbers.  At the sentencing, Assistant U.S. Attorney Gerald Sullivan argued that Cordero-Luciano deserved the 46-month sentence because he had committed identity fraud in attempting to obtain the Rhode Island drivers license. He also alluded to his two drug convictions  in May and December 2005  in Massachusetts. The second conviction landed him an 18-month sentence and his deportation to the Dominican Republic.  Cordero-Lucianos lawyer, Kevin Fitzgerald, said that his client worked in the kitchen at the Wyatt jail and he was taking classes to improve his English. He asked Lisi to sentence him to 24 months.
> 
> In the end, Lisi asked Cordero-Luciano why he had returned to the United States. He told her that he was trying to get a better-paying job to provide for his wife and daughter. He said that he had problems paying his mortgage and the financial tailspin worsened after his cousin, a lieutenant colonel in the Santo Domingo Police Department, was killed.  If I get 24 months, I promise in the name of God and my daughterthat I will never return to the United States, he said through the interpreter. I tried to make good. I behaved in jail. Ive been thinking about my daughter.  Lisi granted him his wish.
> 
> Source



See also:

*ICE Has Released More Than 8,000 Criminal Illegal Aliens Into U.S. Since 2009*
_Tuesday, May 31, 2011  The Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency, which is responsible for enforcing U.S. immigration laws inside the country, has released more than 8,000 illegal aliens convicted of crimes onto the streets of the United States since fiscal 2009, according to ICE data released by House Judiciary Chairman Lamar Smith (R.-Texas)._


> Citing these statistics, Smith has introduced legislation that would allow Homeland Securitys ICE to keep criminal illegal aliens in custody longer than the current six-month period established by the U.S. Supreme Court.  The Keep Our Communities Safe Act  is desperately needed, Smith said at a hearing about the bill on May 24 because of two high court rulings that said immigrants--and later illegal immigrants--could not be detained for more than six months, if efforts to return the immigrant to his or her home country failed.  The result, Smith said, are thousands of criminal illegal immigrants being released in the United States.
> 
> In 2006, the Department of Homeland Security Inspector General reported that thousands of criminal immigrants with final orders of removal were being released into our streets because some countries frustrate the removal process, Smith stated in his prepared remarks at the hearing.  Smith said the IG found that nearly 134,000 immigrants with final orders of removal instead had been released into U.S. communities from 2001 to 2004. The IG report also found that these illegal immigrants were unlikely to ever be repatriated because of the unwillingness of their home country to provide necessary travel documents.  As of June 2004, more than 133,662 illegal aliens with or pending final orders of removal had been apprehended and released into the U.S. and who are unlikely to ever be repatriated if ordered removed because of the unwillingness of their country of origin to provide the documents necessary for repatriation, the report states.
> 
> The 2006 report also says:  Currently, (Detention and Removal Operations) is unable to ensure the departure from the U.S. of all removable aliens. Of the 774,112 illegal aliens apprehended during the past three years, 280,987 (36%) were released largely due to a lack of personnel, bed space, and funding needed to detain illegal aliens while their immigration status is being adjudicated. This presents significant risks due to the inability of Customs and Border Patrol (CBP) and ICE to verify the identity, country-of-origin, and terrorist or criminal affiliation of many of the aliens being released.
> 
> Although the 2006 IG report detailed the release of both criminal and non-criminal illegal immigrants, it did not break down those numbers. At the hearing, Smith distributed a spreadsheet on more recently released aliens that ICE had provided to his office.  This spreadsheet lists the number of non-criminal and convicted criminal illegal immigrants released by ICE in fiscals years 2009, 2010, and year-to-date 2011 under the rules of the Zadvydas v. Davis Supreme Court decision.  The ICE statistics show that the agency released 3,847 convicted criminal aliens in 2009; 3,882 in 2010; and 1,012 so far in 2011.
> 
> MORE


----------



## LilOlLady

*APARTHEID IN AMERICA*

Apartheid was practiced in South Africa and Blacks in their on homeland had to carry a pass to identify them and what settlement they were from, towns they could enter and work and a carefree. A certain time of day they could be out of their settlement. Black South Africans were label trouble makers in their own country. Steve Bilko was murdered for "making trouble." Much like Americans who oppose illegal immigration are labeled racist, xenophobic and bigots. 
The History of Apartheid in South Africa
Apartheid in America | Stuffed and Starved

Apartheid was practiced on Afro-Americans and Native American at one time and it is once again on all Americans because of illegal immigration. American have to carry an identification were ever they are in this country. Babies are given a social security at birth. Our where abouts are know at all time if we go to school, work, collect social services, etc, but we cannot know who is in this country illegally. Senor citizens have to prove their place of birth to  get their social security and show an ID when opening a bank account and cash their social security checks.

20 million people in this country is a security problem. It is just a matter of time before a dirty bomb is set off in our malls, etc. Then Mr. Lawrence McDonnell, it will be too late to close the border. We learned nothing from 9-11 and the 1986 amnesty. I wonder how many of those are in our prisons?
Our leaders can keep tract of millions of Americans but not illegal aliens.


----------



## LilOlLady

* DISPLACED AMERICAN WORKERS.*

15 million Americans are unemployed and a disproportions of them of are Afro-Americans. They moved from the south to the north to work in low skilled manufacturing jobs and then they were sent out of the country putting them out of work. Then illegal aliens come in an further displaced them. Not only them but other Americans. 8 million illegal alien are in our workforce sending billion earned here back to Mexico to go into Mexico economy. Those jobs need to be released for unemployed Americans and that will lower the unemployment rate and money they earn will  go back into our economy. Unemployment solved.  Obama and supporter of amnesty want to further displace the American workers. 
*Deporting 20 million illegal aliens will open up jobs for unemployed Americans and bring down the unemployment rate and off unemployment, off food stamps and other government assistance. *


----------



## Freedomfirst

.....The road to serfdom


----------



## Tank

Beyond Babylon: A Warning For America From South Africa


----------



## LilOlLady

BLAME IT ALL ON ILLEGAL ALIENS.

I just posted a thread in the healthcare and education site and both pointed to illegal aliens.
Why is it that ALL our problems point to illegal aliens. Cost of education, our economy, unemployment, crime, healthcare our state budgets and federal budgets.


----------



## José

If I didn't know LilOlLady I'd swear the op (original poster) wrote a critical satire to mock the frightening demonisation of illegal immigrants we currently see in America (reminiscent of pre-WWII Nazi Germany).


----------



## Vindicator

LilOlLady said:


> BLAME IT ALL ON ILLEGAL ALIENS.
> 
> I just posted a thread in the healthcare and education site and both pointed to illegal aliens.
> Why is it that ALL our problems point to illegal aliens. Cost of education, our economy, unemployment, crime, healthcare our state budgets and federal budgets.


 

......smelly food, bad music, gang bangers, dropouts, George Lopez,.........


----------



## José

BLAME IT ALL     ON ILLEGAL ALIENS.​
"Propaganda must not investigate the truth objectively and, in so far as it is favourable to the other side, present it according to the theoretical rules of justice; yet it must present only that aspect of the truth which is favourable to its own side."


----------



## Vindicator

José;3725452 said:
			
		

> BLAME IT ALL     ON ILLEGAL ALIENS.​
> 
> 
> "Propaganda must not investigate the truth objectively and, in so far as it is favourable to the other side, present it according to the theoretical rules of justice; yet it must present only that aspect of the truth which is favourable to its own side."


 
Beautifully put. 

And that is why most LA RAZA type sites defending illegal aliens, even those by Hispanic controlled Catholic sites, have the "Frequently Asked Questions" sections and how to respond to those questions.

Mind you, they don't just say,"Here is our position on the matter" and let you defend it with your own words. They go so far as to get you to memorize a response so you'll be able to "draw it like a gun." Putting THEIR words in your mouth.

If that is not just like Adolph Hitler's Nazi Germany, it isn't because he didn't live long enough to control his Germans, like LA RAZA controls the minds of Latin Americans.


----------



## LilOlLady

José;3725330 said:
			
		

> If I didn't know LilOlLady I'd swear the op (original poster) wrote a critical satire to mock the frightening demonisation of illegal immigrants we currently see in America (reminiscent of pre-WWII Nazi Germany).



Jose, are on a hallucinogen? Peyote maybe?


----------



## LilOlLady

End Illegal Immigration
Americans Working to Stop Illegal Immigration
Get the Facts about Illegal Immigration
Report Illegal Immigration & Employers of Illegal Immigrants

We commonly receive calls and emails that ask "How do I report an employer who hires illegal aliens?" or "How do I report illegal immigration?"

The first thing we always explain is that your broader political involvement is needed because our government is barely enforcing any of our existing immigration laws at this time.

While the chances that Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) will take any action on your report are slim to none, in the current political environment in Washington, DC, you should still file your reports.

You should do your part in this struggle even though thousands of Americans call in reports each month and ICE does very little to respond.


http://www.endillegalimmigration.com/Report_Illegal_Immigration/index.

*I know a family who came here 15 years ago and over stayed their visas. There is drug dealing, drug use, fraudulent marriages by the children. Business license acquired in children names for their parents. Buys property by fraudulent means. Father illegally smog cars for a profit. I tried to report a flop house 10 years ago and it operated for years and nothing done. There is not statue of limitation on illegal immigration, is there?
Why are these people allow to remain in the country even though they are being reported.
What part of "illegal immigration has been a crime since 1929" do you Obama and Reid do not understand? *


----------



## 1751Texan

> I know a family who came here 15 years ago and over stayed their visas. There is drug dealing, drug use, fraudulent marriages by the children. Business license acquired in children names for their parents. Buys property by fraudulent means. Father illegally smog cars for a profit. I tried to report a flop house 10 years ago and it operated for years and nothing done.



I find it intersting how one can know so much intimate personal information on a neighbor...I've known my neighbors for years and was shocked to learn their eldest son was recently married and had a new son...


----------



## LilOlLady

*We are all illegal immigrants, to some degree * 
May 10, 2010

We are all illegal immigrants, to some degree | MLive.com

*Same old insane rhetoric by all who claim we are all illegal immigrants. I just read an letter to the editor in the Reno News and Review making the same statement and my response was;

WHERE THERE IS NOT LAW, THERE CANNOT BE A CRIME.
ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS A CRIME
RE; WE ARE ALL ILLEGAL.

Each year the Border Patrol makes more than a million apprehensions of aliens who flagrantly violate our nation's laws by unlawfully crossing U.S. borders. Such entry is a misdemeanor, but, if repeated, becomes punishable as a felony. 


The immigration authorities currently estimate that about two-thirds of all illegal immigrants are EWIs and the remainder is overstayers. Both types of illegal immigrants are deportable under Immigration and Nationality Act Section 237 (a)(1)(B) which says: "Any alien who is present in the United States in violation of this Act or any other law of the United States is deportable." 
Why is illegal immigration a crime? Because the law say it is a crime. Before there were no immigration laws (before 1929) immigration could not be illegal. Therefore it is in error that one may say we are all illegal as an excuse for the presence of illegal aliens who did not follow the law when entering this country. 
When Europeans entered this country in 1492 there were no immigration laws and native Americans did not make a claim on the land because they did not believe the land could be owned.(they soon realizes that the land could be owned) At some later date Native Americans did make claim on some of the land.
Where there is no law there cannot be a crime. 

[/B]*


----------



## LilOlLady

1751Texan said:


> I know a family who came here 15 years ago and over stayed their visas. There is drug dealing, drug use, fraudulent marriages by the children. Business license acquired in children names for their parents. Buys property by fraudulent means. Father illegally smog cars for a profit. I tried to report a flop house 10 years ago and it operated for years and nothing done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I find it intersting how one can know so much intimate personal information on a neighbor...I've known my neighbors for years and was shocked to learn their eldest son was recently married and had a new son...
Click to expand...



It helps when that neighbor is a family member and they brag about their immigration statues and the crimes are obvious because they don't hide them either. Why should they when they know there is no consequenses. When one brings you a case of olive oil that is a red flag?

I would know this even if they were not family. It don't take a detective to know a flop house if you have ever seen one. I know all my neighbors and most of their little secrets because people do like to talk.


----------



## BolshevikHunter

Vindicator said:


> José;3725452 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BLAME IT ALL     ON ILLEGAL ALIENS.​
> 
> 
> "Propaganda must not investigate the truth objectively and, in so far as it is favourable to the other side, present it according to the theoretical rules of justice; yet it must present only that aspect of the truth which is favourable to its own side."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beautifully put.
> 
> And that is why most LA RAZA type sites defending illegal aliens, even those by Hispanic controlled Catholic sites, have the "Frequently Asked Questions" sections and how to respond to those questions.
> 
> Mind you, they don't just say,"Here is our position on the matter" and let you defend it with your own words. They go so far as to get you to memorize a response so you'll be able to "draw it like a gun." Putting THEIR words in your mouth.
> 
> If that is not just like Adolph Hitler's Nazi Germany, it isn't because he didn't live long enough to control his Germans, like LA RAZA controls the minds of Latin Americans.
Click to expand...


Jose just grabbed his ankles, got bent over and owned. Ball sack and all.  ~BH


----------



## 1751Texan

LilOlLady said:


> 1751Texan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know a family who came here 15 years ago and over stayed their visas. There is drug dealing, drug use, fraudulent marriages by the children. Business license acquired in children names for their parents. Buys property by fraudulent means. Father illegally smog cars for a profit. I tried to report a flop house 10 years ago and it operated for years and nothing done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I find it intersting how one can know so much intimate personal information on a neighbor...I've known my neighbors for years and was shocked to learn their eldest son was recently married and had a new son...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *It helps when that neighbor is a family member and they brag about their immigration statues and the crimes* are obvious because they don't hide them either. Why should they when they know there is no consequenses. When one brings you a case of olive oil that is a red flag?
> 
> I would know this even if they were not family. It don't take a detective to know a flop house if you have ever seen one. I know all my neighbors and most of their little secrets because people do like to talk.
Click to expand...


I guess Im ill informed...I need to get more of my news...from "Over the back fence"


----------



## Momanohedhunter

1751Texan said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1751Texan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I find it intersting how one can know so much intimate personal information on a neighbor...I've known my neighbors for years and was shocked to learn their eldest son was recently married and had a new son...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *It helps when that neighbor is a family member and they brag about their immigration statues and the crimes* are obvious because they don't hide them either. Why should they when they know there is no consequenses. When one brings you a case of olive oil that is a red flag?
> 
> I would know this even if they were not family. It don't take a detective to know a flop house if you have ever seen one. I know all my neighbors and most of their little secrets because people do like to talk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess Im ill informed...I need to get more of my news...from "Over the back fence"
Click to expand...


You mean instead of jumping over it, or tunneling under it ? You are on the right track. Folks are usuley more hospitable when you visit them threw there front door.


----------



## Momanohedhunter

José;3725452 said:
			
		

> BLAME IT ALL     ON ILLEGAL ALIENS.​
> "Propaganda must not investigate the truth objectively and, in so far as it is favourable to the other side, present it according to the theoretical rules of justice; yet it must present only that aspect of the truth which is favourable to its own side."




What is this "favourable" ? Are you not spelling correctly ? That invalidates your whole point because you did not spell it correctly right ? at least that what you say to everyone else who has typos, misspellings, and improper syntax. And if this is a country of Nazi's how about you tell us what that makes Mexico who enforces there immigration laws ? And I challenge you and all other pro illegals to admit how Mexico treats there illegals, you know, the ones that are caught in Mexico on there way here for a better life ? Bet you wont, even though you know they usually occupy a hole in the ground when they are caught. If Americans are like Nazi's then you and your Mexicans are no better then savages like the ones in Africa.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Momanohedhunter*
> What is this "favourable" ? Are you not spelling correctly ? That invalidates your whole point because you did not spell it correctly right ? at least that what you say to everyone else who has typos, misspellings, and improper syntax.



Put down the crack pipe, hunter!! You got the wrong poster, you dyslexic redneck!! 

It wasn't me who first complained about your spelling!! I actually defended you saying I'd be the last one to say anything because I can't even speak English properly!!



> Originally posted by *Momanohedhunter*
> And if this is a country of Nazi's how about you tell us what that makes Mexico who enforces there immigration laws ? And I challenge you and all other pro illegals to admit how Mexico treats there illegals, you know, the ones that are caught in Mexico on there way here for a better life ? Bet you wont, even though you know they usually occupy a hole in the ground when they are caught. If Americans are like Nazi's then you and your Mexicans are no better then savages like the ones in Africa.



REREAD WHAT GRANNY SAID, HUNTER. And you too, ASSCHEEKHUNTER:

*Blame it all (our problems) on illegal aliens.*

Not *SOME* problems.

Not *MANY* problems.

Not *MOST* problems.

She said *ALL* problems in America point to illegal aliens!!  

This is precisely what Hitler's propaganda machine did to Jews in WWII. They used group of people as a scapegoat for all Germany's problems. One can trace some parallels between the demonisation of Jews in nazi Germany and the type of propaganda spewed by granny here.


----------



## José

This is what I DID say to you, hunter:

You should go easy on your anti-mexican feelings.

There are a lot of people in America who don't give a flying fuck about a piece of paper stating that your multi racial family legally reside in the US.

To them, they are just a bunch of brownies they would gladly kick out of America if they had their way.


----------



## LilOlLady

José;3787293 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *Momanohedhunter*
> What is this "favourable" ? Are you not spelling correctly ? That invalidates your whole point because you did not spell it correctly right ? at least that what you say to everyone else who has typos, misspellings, and improper syntax.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Put down the crack pipe, hunter!! You got the wrong poster, you dyslexic redneck!!
> 
> It wasn't me who first complained about your spelling!! I actually defended you saying I'd be the last one to say anything because I can't even speak English properly!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *Momanohedhunter*
> And if this is a country of Nazi's how about you tell us what that makes Mexico who enforces there immigration laws ? And I challenge you and all other pro illegals to admit how Mexico treats there illegals, you know, the ones that are caught in Mexico on there way here for a better life ? Bet you wont, even though you know they usually occupy a hole in the ground when they are caught. If Americans are like Nazi's then you and your Mexicans are no better then savages like the ones in Africa.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> REREAD WHAT GRANNY SAID, HUNTER. And you too, ASSCHEEKHUNTER:
> 
> *Blame it all (our problems) on illegal aliens.*
> 
> Not *SOME* problems.
> 
> Not *MANY* problems.
> 
> Not *MOST* problems.
> 
> She said *ALL* problems in America point to illegal aliens!!
> 
> This is precisely what Hitler's propaganda machine did to Jews in WWII. They used group of people as a scapegoat for all Germany's problems. One can trace some parallels between the demonisation of Jews in nazi Germany and the type of propaganda spewed by granny here.
Click to expand...


I believe I an safely say *ALL* of our major problems and they are education, welfare, crime, healthcare, unemployment. *A direct correlation between illegal alien and our failing economy*. And the is not racist or zenophobic or propaganda. It is just fact and if you JOSE cannot see it you are either blind or dumb.


----------



## Momanohedhunter

José;3787293 said:
			
		

> Originally posted by *Momanohedhunter*
> What is this "favourable" ? Are you not spelling correctly ? That invalidates your whole point because you did not spell it correctly right ? at least that what you say to everyone else who has typos, misspellings, and improper syntax.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Put down the crack pipe, hunter!! You got the wrong poster, you dyslexic redneck!!
> 
> It wasn't me who first complained about your spelling!! I actually defended you saying I'd be the last one to say anything because I can't even speak English properly!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *Momanohedhunter*
> And if this is a country of Nazi's how about you tell us what that makes Mexico who enforces there immigration laws ? And I challenge you and all other pro illegals to admit how Mexico treats there illegals, you know, the ones that are caught in Mexico on there way here for a better life ? Bet you wont, even though you know they usually occupy a hole in the ground when they are caught. If Americans are like Nazi's then you and your Mexicans are no better then savages like the ones in Africa.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> REREAD WHAT GRANNY SAID, HUNTER. And you too, ASSCHEEKHUNTER:
> 
> *Blame it all (our problems) on illegal aliens.*
> 
> Not *SOME* problems.
> 
> Not *MANY* problems.
> 
> Not *MOST* problems.
> 
> She said *ALL* problems in America point to illegal aliens!!
> 
> This is precisely what Hitler's propaganda machine did to Jews in WWII. They used group of people as a scapegoat for all Germany's problems. One can trace some parallels between the demonisation of Jews in nazi Germany and the type of propaganda spewed by granny here.
Click to expand...



Was that a racist remark ? You also misspelled ? "Deamonisation" you stupid wet back. You can not point to one thing ware spicks can say they are being persecuted any ware near what the Hews or Black were. you are a coward and a pussy. You are the product of a donkey show gone wrong. You need to go back and take English lessons Paco, or swim your greasy spick ass back across that nasty stream of shit water called the Rio . Maybe go see your dad the donkey or rape a 12 year old as you Latino men love to do. Here is your post with comments about spelling and proper syntax fucking spick ball. If you want I will find more wet back.

José José is offline
Registered User
Member #1633

Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,331
Thanks: 94
Thanked 141 Times in 122 Posts
Rep Power: 20
José could be state governorJosé could be state governorJosé could be state governor
José could be state governorJosé could be state governorJosé could be state governorJosé could be state governorJosé could be state governorJosé could be state governorJosé could be state governorJosé could be state governorJosé could be state governorJosé could be state governorJosé could be state governorJosé could be state governorJosé could be state governorJosé could be state governor
Quote:
Originally posted by 1751Texan
Its Federales...double L is a y sound. Federallies is incorrect in any language.
Incorrect but funny as hell, Texan...

Fedrallies would be a series of rallies organised by Federales

Anyway you're not the first one to complain about hunter's mistreatment of the english language... illiteracy, typo or dyslexia, who cares?

Since I can only speak Spanglish I'll be damned if I won't be the last one to point fingers at him.
Last edited by José; 06-22-2011 at 10:33 AM.
Reply With Quote


----------



## José

Listen, hunter:

1 - The post you quoted was actually defending you. You'd have noticed it if you weren't so fucking stoned. I could go search for the poster that made fun of your spelling but my life doesn't suck so bad.

2 - Every american citizen should always keep in mind that:

*A mexican who speaks broken English is a mexican who, unlike you, speaks more than one language.*

3 - You belong to a special group brownies and darkies with an Uncle Tom complex, hunter. You mistakenly believe that if you bash Mexico and mexicans hard enough Anglos will forget that you are half-black, mestizo, quadroon, etc...

You're wrong... No matter how many times you call me a spick, a wetback, a beaner or a greasy ball, Anglos will always consider you and your multiracial family as legalised mutts... mutts with papers but mutts nonetheless.


----------



## Angelhair

José;3791718 said:
			
		

> Listen, hunter:
> 
> 1 - The post you quoted was actually defending you. You'd have noticed it if you weren't so fucking stoned. I could go search for the poster that made fun of your spelling but my life doesn't suck so bad.
> 
> 2 - Every american citizen should always keep in mind that:
> 
> *A mexican who speaks broken English is a mexican who, unlike you, speaks more than one language.*
> 
> 3 - You belong to a special group brownies and darkies with an Uncle Tom complex, hunter. You mistakenly believe that if you bash Mexico and mexicans hard enough Anglos will forget that you are half-black, mestizo, quadroon, etc...
> 
> You're wrong... No matter how many times you call me a spick, a wetback, a beaner or a greasy ball, Anglos will always consider you and your multiracial family as legalised mutts... mutts with papers but mutts nonetheless.



*****************************************************************

_Actually noooooooooooooooooo - very few mexicans speak more than one language.  In their warped mentality they think that learning other languages is a slap in the face to their 'viva mexico'!!_

_Why is posting an opinion a 'mexican bashing'?????????_

_Why is it that it always goes back to the anglo having the upper hand and that they would kick ass if need be????????   Is that what is considered an inferiority complex on the part of the accuser as in 'anglos will always consider you a legalized mutt'???_

_Sorry for butting in but..........._


----------



## Momanohedhunter

José;3791718 said:
			
		

> Listen, hunter:
> 
> 1 - The post you quoted was actually defending you. You'd have noticed it if you weren't so fucking stoned. I could go search for the poster that made fun of your spelling but my life doesn't suck so bad.
> 
> 2 - Every american citizen should always keep in mind that:
> 
> *A mexican who speaks broken English is a mexican who, unlike you, speaks more than one language.*
> 
> 3 - You belong to a special group brownies and darkies with an Uncle Tom complex, hunter. You mistakenly believe that if you bash Mexico and mexicans hard enough Anglos will forget that you are half-black, mestizo, quadroon, etc...
> 
> You're wrong... No matter how many times you call me a spick, a wetback, a beaner or a greasy ball, Anglos will always consider you and your multiracial family as legalised mutts... mutts with papers but mutts nonetheless.



That would be Chickasaw Indian 1/4 , I am not a brownie, The wife is. She is Samoan. She speaks perfect English, My partner in crime Jose, a man I have worked with for 4 years and is a legal immigrant who has with his wife suffered at the hands of Mexicans, feels the same. He hates illegals. HE will be the first to run illegals off a job. I have no problems with my kids being considered mutts.Family is Family, Americans are Americans. I am NO Red Neck. To me, a white man who is proud of that monicker are like black men who call each other ******. It is disgusting.I jump my kids ass and the asses of there friends who proudly label then selves "Red Necks". I apologize for taking your comments out of context, as well as for the ugly things I posted. The long and short of it is this, Illegal immigration allows Mexicans to abuse Mexicans, and provides cheap disposable labor for rich Americans OF ALL RACES . Sure, we get some good ones, but it is a fact that we get allot of there undesirables to. Pleas excuse any misspellin. It stems from that laziness I was bitching about.


----------



## Soggy in NOLA

Zona said:


> My ancestors came here as illegals on slave ships.  Dammit, by proxy I am an illegal! This sucks.



And yet, you are still enslaved by your own stupidity.   Some things never change.


----------



## Soggy in NOLA

Momanohedhunter said:


> José;3791718 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Listen, hunter:
> 
> 1 - The post you quoted was actually defending you. You'd have noticed it if you weren't so fucking stoned. I could go search for the poster that made fun of your spelling but my life doesn't suck so bad.
> 
> 2 - Every american citizen should always keep in mind that:
> 
> *A mexican who speaks broken English is a mexican who, unlike you, speaks more than one language.*
> 
> 3 - You belong to a special group brownies and darkies with an Uncle Tom complex, hunter. You mistakenly believe that if you bash Mexico and mexicans hard enough Anglos will forget that you are half-black, mestizo, quadroon, etc...
> 
> You're wrong... No matter how many times you call me a spick, a wetback, a beaner or a greasy ball, Anglos will always consider you and your multiracial family as legalised mutts... mutts with papers but mutts nonetheless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would be Chickasaw Indian 1/4 , I am not a brownie, The wife is. She is Samoan. She speaks perfect English, My partner in crime Jose, a man I have worked with for 4 years and is a legal immigrant who has with his wife suffered at the hands of Mexicans, feels the same. He hates illegals. HE will be the first to run illegals off a job. I have no problems with my kids being considered mutts.Family is Family, Americans are Americans. I am NO Red Neck. To me, a white man who is proud of that monicker are like black men who call each other ******. It is disgusting.I jump my kids ass and the asses of there friends who proudly label then selves "Red Necks". I apologize for taking your comments out of context, as well as for the ugly things I posted. The long and short of it is this, Illegal immigration allows Mexicans to abuse Mexicans, and provides cheap disposable labor for rich Americans OF ALL RACES . Sure, we get some good ones, but it is a fact that we get allot of there undesirables to. Pleas excuse any misspellin. It stems from that laziness I was bitching about.
Click to expand...


Fucking redneck asshole.


----------



## Momanohedhunter

Soggy in NOLA said:


> Momanohedhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José;3791718 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Listen, hunter:
> 
> 1 - The post you quoted was actually defending you. You'd have noticed it if you weren't so fucking stoned. I could go search for the poster that made fun of your spelling but my life doesn't suck so bad.
> 
> 2 - Every american citizen should always keep in mind that:
> 
> *A mexican who speaks broken English is a mexican who, unlike you, speaks more than one language.*
> 
> 3 - You belong to a special group brownies and darkies with an Uncle Tom complex, hunter. You mistakenly believe that if you bash Mexico and mexicans hard enough Anglos will forget that you are half-black, mestizo, quadroon, etc...
> 
> You're wrong... No matter how many times you call me a spick, a wetback, a beaner or a greasy ball, Anglos will always consider you and your multiracial family as legalised mutts... mutts with papers but mutts nonetheless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would be Chickasaw Indian 1/4 , I am not a brownie, The wife is. She is Samoan. She speaks perfect English, My partner in crime Jose, a man I have worked with for 4 years and is a legal immigrant who has with his wife suffered at the hands of Mexicans, feels the same. He hates illegals. HE will be the first to run illegals off a job. I have no problems with my kids being considered mutts.Family is Family, Americans are Americans. I am NO Red Neck. To me, a white man who is proud of that monicker are like black men who call each other ******. It is disgusting.I jump my kids ass and the asses of there friends who proudly label then selves "Red Necks". I apologize for taking your comments out of context, as well as for the ugly things I posted. The long and short of it is this, Illegal immigration allows Mexicans to abuse Mexicans, and provides cheap disposable labor for rich Americans OF ALL RACES . Sure, we get some good ones, but it is a fact that we get allot of there undesirables to. Pleas excuse any misspellin. It stems from that laziness I was bitching about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fucking redneck asshole.
Click to expand...


----------



## LilOlLady

*HARD WORKING ILLEGAL ALIENS*

Who only want a better life for their families. These poor people who cannot take care of their families pay coyotes thousands of dollars to just get them cross the border. National Geographics Border Wars  NO END IN SIGHT say as much as *$4,000?*

Illegal aliens coming here for a better life for their families is *destroying dreams of hard working Americans *who only want *a better life for their families*.  They are taking American dreams away from Americans and the sad part of it all it *most Americans are going about their daily lives totally oblivious that illegal aliens are subtly and slowly destroying their lives. * Taking unskilled jobs Americans need and depend on to take care of their families. Yes, we have *a massive unskilled American labor force *although *pro-illegal aliens like you to think we do not.* 

How many American better lives will have to be destroyed, how many American students college education destroyed  *to get Obama re-elected*?  Because they is what non-action on illegal immigration is doing.

Wake up American and open your eyes before it is too late. *Illegal immigration *perpetrated on the American people is *a great injustice*.


___________________________________________
* "We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people but for the appalling silence of the good people."

"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it."
Martin Luther King.*


----------



## Momanohedhunter

> Momanohedhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José;3791718 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Listen, hunter:
> 
> 1 - The post you quoted was actually defending you. You'd have noticed it if you weren't so fucking stoned. I could go search for the poster that made fun of your spelling but my life doesn't suck so bad.
> 
> 2 - Every american citizen should always keep in mind that:
> 
> *A mexican who speaks broken English is a mexican who, unlike you, speaks more than one language.*
> 
> 3 - You belong to a special group brownies and darkies with an Uncle Tom complex, hunter. You mistakenly believe that if you bash Mexico and mexicans hard enough Anglos will forget that you are half-black, mestizo, quadroon, etc...
> 
> You're wrong... No matter how many times you call me a spick, a wetback, a beaner or a greasy ball, Anglos will always consider you and your multiracial family as legalised mutts... mutts with papers but mutts nonetheless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would be Chickasaw Indian 1/4 , I am not a brownie, The wife is. She is Samoan. She speaks perfect English, My partner in crime Jose, a man I have worked with for 4 years and is a legal immigrant who has with his wife suffered at the hands of Mexicans, feels the same. He hates illegals. HE will be the first to run illegals off a job. I have no problems with my kids being considered mutts.Family is Family, Americans are Americans. I am NO Red Neck. To me, a white man who is proud of that monicker are like black men who call each other ******. It is disgusting.I jump my kids ass and the asses of there friends who proudly label then selves "Red Necks". I apologize for taking your comments out of context, as well as for the ugly things I posted. The long and short of it is this, Illegal immigration allows Mexicans to abuse Mexicans, and provides cheap disposable labor for rich Americans OF ALL RACES . Sure, we get some good ones, but it is a fact that we get allot of there undesirables to. Pleas excuse any misspellin. It stems from that laziness I was bitching about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fucking redneck asshole.
Click to expand...


Soggy in NOLA


----------



## LilOlLady

*1986 AMNESTY*

Did not *fix our broken immigration system*. Did not* save our economy*. Did not *save Social Security*. Did not* create jobs*. So why do Democrats and some Republican went to take us  down the same road again? Because they are looking out for their own jobs and the hell with 14 million unemployed Americans and their children that the Dream Act and amnesty will displaced on jobs and education.

There have to be some one in 2012 that stop this nightmare of illegal immigration without legalization. And Romney flip flops too much. Bachmann do not clarify.

If we dont secure our border, *(more secure than ever*) is just not good enough, before any kind of Dream Act or Amnesty or just the promise of either, we will have a flood of illegal aliens that will make 20 million look like a drop in the bucket.

I* guess we will need more illegal aliens to replace all the educated children of illegal aliens that the Dream Act will produce, to do the jobs that will not do.*

Our leaders talk about the Dream Act as though* American children *do not even exist. Maybe they will be *doing the jobs educated children of illegal aliens use to do*.

 I will vote for Mickey Mouse in 2012 if he promises to enforce our immigration law and secure the border.


----------



## 1751Texan

LilOlLady said:


> *1986 AMNESTY*
> 
> *Did not fix our broken immigration system. Did not save our economy. Did not save Social Security. Did not create jobs. *So why do Democrats and some Republican went to take us  down the same road again? Because they are looking out for their own jobs and the hell with 14 million unemployed Americans and their children that the Dream Act and amnesty will displaced on jobs and education.
> 
> There have to be some one in 2012 that stop this nightmare of illegal immigration without legalization. And Romney flip flops too much. Bachmann do not clarify.
> 
> If we don&#8217;t secure our border, *(&#8220;more secure than ever*&#8221 is just not good enough, before any kind of Dream Act or Amnesty or just the promise of either, we will have a flood of illegal aliens that will make 20 million look like a drop in the bucket.
> 
> I* guess we will need more illegal aliens to replace all the educated children of illegal aliens that the Dream Act will produce, to do the jobs that will not do.*
> 
> Our leaders talk about the Dream Act as though* American children *do not even exist. Maybe they will be *doing the jobs educated children of illegal aliens use to do*.
> 
> I will vote for Mickey Mouse in 2012 if he promises to enforce our immigration law and secure the border.



Were these highlighted "remedies" ever taughted as fixes to illegal immigration by Amnesty when Amnesty was signed into law by President Reagan?

Seems to me you're listing illegal immigration problems and linking them as a failure of Amnesty.


----------



## LilOlLady

*Obama slips DREAM Act amnesty past Congress*
Columnist charges, 'This is outright lawlessness on part of the administration'

Posted: June 25, 2011
1:00 am Eastern

A new enforcement memo handed down by the director of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement last week has some accusing the White House of running around Congress to implement the DREAM Act &#8211; and consequent amnesty for some illegal immigrants &#8211; by executive fiat. 
Obama slips DREAM Act amnesty past Congress



*Children often pay for the sins for their fathers. When Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed the children were destroyed. During the flood children were destroyed with their parents. When parents commit crime. their children often suffer. Don&#8217;t make me pay for the sins of their parents. Children born to slave were considered slaves because their parents were slaves. Did we free children of slaves?
Children of illegal aliens must be deported with their parents. The Dream Act will separate families and Automatic Birth Right Citizenship must be appealed because it separates families.*


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM

LilOlLady said:


> *1986 AMNESTY*
> 
> Did not *fix our broken immigration system*. Did not* save our economy*. Did not *save Social Security*. Did not* create jobs*. So why do Democrats and some Republican went to take us  down the same road again? Because they are looking out for their own jobs and the hell with 14 million unemployed Americans and their children that the Dream Act and amnesty will displaced on jobs and education.
> 
> There have to be some one in 2012 that stop this nightmare of illegal immigration without legalization. And Romney flip flops too much. Bachmann do not clarify.
> 
> If we don&#8217;t secure our border, *(&#8220;more secure than ever*&#8221 is just not good enough, before any kind of Dream Act or Amnesty or just the promise of either, we will have a flood of illegal aliens that will make 20 million look like a drop in the bucket.
> 
> I* guess we will need more illegal aliens to replace all the educated children of illegal aliens that the Dream Act will produce, to do the jobs that will not do.*
> 
> Our leaders talk about the Dream Act as though* American children *do not even exist. Maybe they will be *doing the jobs educated children of illegal aliens use to do*.
> 
> I will vote for Mickey Mouse in 2012 if he promises to enforce our immigration law and secure the border.



If we used our military and the threat of deadly force to secure our borders and then actually secured them I would be willing to give those who are stuck on our side some road to citizenship.   But we would have to SHUT THE BORDERS DOWN first.

Then the people still here would have to pay like 3x the amount normal immigrants pay to come here.  They would have to pay back taxes.  And they would have to be proficient in english within 6 months.

If they dont meet all these they get deported.


----------



## LilOlLady

1751Texan said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *1986 AMNESTY*
> 
> *Did not fix our broken immigration system. Did not save our economy. Did not save Social Security. Did not create jobs. *So why do Democrats and some Republican went to take us  down the same road again? Because they are looking out for their own jobs and the hell with 14 million unemployed Americans and their children that the Dream Act and amnesty will displaced on jobs and education.
> 
> There have to be some one in 2012 that stop this nightmare of illegal immigration without legalization. And Romney flip flops too much. Bachmann do not clarify.
> 
> If we dont secure our border, *(more secure than ever*) is just not good enough, before any kind of Dream Act or Amnesty or just the promise of either, we will have a flood of illegal aliens that will make 20 million look like a drop in the bucket.
> 
> I* guess we will need more illegal aliens to replace all the educated children of illegal aliens that the Dream Act will produce, to do the jobs that will not do.*
> 
> Our leaders talk about the Dream Act as though* American children *do not even exist. Maybe they will be *doing the jobs educated children of illegal aliens use to do*.
> 
> I will vote for Mickey Mouse in 2012 if he promises to enforce our immigration law and secure the border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Were these highlighted "remedies" ever taughted as fixes to illegal immigration by Amnesty when Amnesty was signed into law by President Reagan?
> 
> Seems to me you're listing illegal immigration problems and linking them as a failure of Amnesty.
Click to expand...


You do know how to google "*1986 amnesty*" don't you?

*The amnesty program that tried and failed *
Daniel González

By nearly all accounts, the 1986 amnesty legislation was a massive failure.

The law signed 20 years ago this November by President Ronald Reagan was* supposed to put an end to illegal immigration*. It granted amnesty to millions of undocumented immigrants, *beefed up security along the U.S.-Mexican border* and, for the first time, *tried to punish employers of unlawful workers*. *The rationale was that illegal immigration would stop for good if the job magnet was cut off*.

But *employer sanctions never fully materialized*, and* illegal immigration soared. *Congress remains torn on a resolution, and at the very heart of the debate lies sharp disagreement over the reasons the 1986 law failed. advertisement  

The amnesty program that tried and failed


The Arizona Republic
Oct. 8, 2006 12:00 AM


----------



## 1751Texan

LilOlLady said:


> 1751Texan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *1986 AMNESTY*
> 
> *Did not fix our broken immigration system. Did not save our economy. Did not save Social Security. Did not create jobs. *So why do Democrats and some Republican went to take us  down the same road again? Because they are looking out for their own jobs and the hell with 14 million unemployed Americans and their children that the Dream Act and amnesty will displaced on jobs and education.
> 
> There have to be some one in 2012 that stop this nightmare of illegal immigration without legalization. And Romney flip flops too much. Bachmann do not clarify.
> 
> If we don&#8217;t secure our border, *(&#8220;more secure than ever*&#8221 is just not good enough, before any kind of Dream Act or Amnesty or just the promise of either, we will have a flood of illegal aliens that will make 20 million look like a drop in the bucket.
> 
> I* guess we will need more illegal aliens to replace all the educated children of illegal aliens that the Dream Act will produce, to do the jobs that will not do.*
> 
> Our leaders talk about the Dream Act as though* American children *do not even exist. Maybe they will be *doing the jobs educated children of illegal aliens use to do*.
> 
> I will vote for Mickey Mouse in 2012 if he promises to enforce our immigration law and secure the border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Were these highlighted "remedies" ever taughted as fixes to illegal immigration by Amnesty when Amnesty was signed into law by President Reagan?
> 
> Seems to me you're listing illegal immigration problems and linking them as a failure of Amnesty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do know how to google "*1986 amnesty*" don't you?
> 
> *The amnesty program that tried and failed *
> Daniel González
> 
> By nearly all accounts, the 1986 amnesty legislation was a massive failure.
> 
> The law signed 20 years ago this November by President Ronald Reagan was* supposed to put an end to illegal immigration*. It granted amnesty to millions of undocumented immigrants, *beefed up security along the U.S.-Mexican border and, for the first time, tried to punish employers of unlawful workers.* *The rationale was that illegal immigration would stop for good if the job magnet was cut off*.
> 
> *But employer sanctions never fully materialized, *and* illegal immigration soared. *Congress remains torn on a resolution, and at the very heart of the debate lies sharp disagreement over the reasons the 1986 law failed. advertisement
> 
> The amnesty program that tried and failed
> 
> 
> The Arizona Republic
> Oct. 8, 2006 12:00 AM
Click to expand...


Was the failure to secure the border and prosecute employers not accomplished due to Amnesty or a failure of the Reagan, Bush[1], Clinton, and Bush[2] adminstrations to implement those programs?


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## RodISHI

Update.... corruption in the courts that were instructed that Roger Barnett could not claim self defense and news of Roger Barnett's neighbor Robert Krentz who was shot to death on his own property.

Court upholds verdict against Arizona rancher who detained illegal immigrants on his land

Barnett passed away due to surgical complications in March of 2018 Businessman, border activist Barnett dies at 75


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## LilOlLady

SW2SILVER said:


> Lil old lady is being pedantic  yet again.  The illegal aliens have won, with all due respect.  They outbreed EVERYONE, they are future voters and they will inevitably be forced to pay taxes, either way. I think,  they win. What laws they are breaking now, they will be forgiven for AND they will re-write future laws and history to favor themselves. The writing is already on the wall. I don&#8217;t like it better than the rest of you, either, but there it is.


They work, they already pay taxes and they get back more than they pay in tax breaks for all the kids. and for the Jack Pot kids, they collect all the welfare benefits as Americans. Undocumented immigrants *pay* $10.6 billion in state and local *taxes*.


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## LilOlLady

Throwing this in...Went to Denny's in Reno this morning and order "eggs over well done" and was brought to me over very easy and I broke them, showing the waitress how I did not want them. She brought them back, same ones, flattened and fried hard. Call her back again and asked her "what the hell is this" and told her again "over well done with egg yolk intact" She came back with eggs over easy and by that time I was so pissed I asked to see the manager who was Mexican also and told him what had happened and he did not understand what I was talking about. Left the restaurant pissed and refused to pay for the meal. MY friend ordered steak and eggs over medium and his was too runny and never got the steak sauce he asked for. I guess I could have made it simple like.." like a hard on" may it would have been understood.


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## WillowTree

LilOlLady said:


> Throwing this in...Went to Denny's in Reno this morning and order "eggs over well done" and was brought to me over very easy and I broke them, showing the waitress how I did not want them. She brought them back, same ones, flattened and fried hard. Call her back again and asked her "what the hell is this" and told her again "over well done with egg yolk intact" She came back with eggs over easy and by that time I was so pissed I asked to see the manager who was Mexican also and told him what had happened and he did not understand what I was talking about. Left the restaurant pissed and refused to pay for the meal. MY friend ordered steak and eggs over medium and his was too runny and never got the steak sauce he asked for. I guess I could have made it simple like.." like a hard on" may it would have been understood.


Always order scrambled eggs. It’s the only way around asswipes who cannot cook eggs!


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## Third Party

LilOlLady said:


> ARIZ BOYCOTTS HURT HISPANICS
> 
> 
> Arizona boycotts will hurt Hispanics who make up the large part of the hospitality industry. A no win situation for all. But Arizona will recover and SB107 is not going away.
> 
> Arizona illegal aliens who are protesting will protest them selves out of jobs and out of the state saving Arizona billions in education, healthcare, law enforcement and welfare.
> 
> If illegal aliens are force to leave, either by SB1070 or boycotts, they will go to other state and they will have to provide jobs, healthcare, education, law enforcement and welfare. Costing those states.
> 
> If SB1070 is unconstitutional so is the Federal Immigration and Nationality Act that gives Arizona state and local officers the right to do exactly what SB1070 allows them to do. Federal Immigration and Nationality Act goes even farther to allow racial profiling. Hispanic appearance coupled with reasonable suspicion. I guess that does not make a difference since ICE do not process those illegal aliens Arizona turn over the them. They are released if there is no criminal act other than illegal entry.


Give them a ride to the border


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