# BDS and "The Color Purple."



## sealadaigh (Jun 1, 2013)

(Alice) Walker (author of "The Color Purple") also compared Israel to racist American institutions in the south that were boycotted to end American apartheid, which she called "less lethal than Israels against the Palestinian people." 

(Alice)Walkers full letter
Dear Alicia Keys, 

*If you go to my website and blog alicewalkersgarden.com, you can quickly find many articles I have written over the years that explain why a cultural boycott of Israel and Israeli institutions (not individuals) is the only option left to artists who cannot bear the unconscionable harm Israel inflicts every day on the people of Palestine, whose major 'crime' is that they exist in their own land, land that Israel wants to control as its own. *

*Under a campaign named 'Brand Israel,' Israeli officials have stated specifically their intent to downplay the Palestinian conflict by using culture and arts to showcase Israel as a modern, welcoming place. *

This is actually a wonderful opportunity for you to learn about something sorrowful, and amazing: That our government (Obama in particular) supports a system that is cruel, unjust, and unbelievably evil. You can spend months, and years, as I have, pondering this situation. Layer upon layer of lies, misinformation, fear, cowardice and complicity. Greed. It is a vast eye-opener into the causes of much of the affliction in our suffering world.

Alicia Keys refuses to cancel TA concert - Israel Culture, Ynetnews

i think that pretty well sums it up...and now for the countless editorials telling us why BDS isn't working or how it deters from israel giving equal rights to the palestinians.


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## Hossfly (Jun 1, 2013)

reabhloideach said:


> (Alice) Walker (author of "The Color Purple") also compared Israel to racist American institutions in the south that were boycotted to end American apartheid, which she called "less lethal than Israels against the Palestinian people."
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> (Alice)Walkers full letter
> Dear Alicia Keys,
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Does it bother Alice Walker what is happening to her fellow Blacks in Africa and the Middle East?  Has Alice Walker ever spoken up for the unfortunate Black Muslim women in Darfur living in tents now in refugee camps in Chad?  Has she ever mentioned the 2,000,000 Christians murdered in the Sudan?  It seems that there are people who fall all over themselves to condemn Israel but have not a care in the world about what is happening elsewhere.And dont go blathering about off topic because she takes up the Palistinan cause and forgets about her own people.

Alicia Keyes Will Go Ahead with Tel Aviv Concert; Refuses to Yield to Israel Boycotters | Simon Wiesenthal Center


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## MJB12741 (Jun 1, 2013)

Man oh man.  Ever since the BDS boycott of Israel movement began, foreign investment in Israel has been booming.  Keep them boycotts comin'.
Israel: A Resilient Global Economy


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 1, 2013)

Alice Walker is a lovely and honorable woman.

It is good to have someone of her stature defending the rights of the Palestinians.


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## MJB12741 (Jun 1, 2013)

Has anyone here fought harder than me for Palestinian rights?  Israel keeps them as captives in Israel with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions.  Palestinians need & deserve a Palestinian State with self determination far away from Israel's bondage & control.  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!





P F Tinmore said:


> Alice Walker is a lovely and honorable woman.
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> It is good to have someone of her stature defending the rights of the Palestinians.


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## sealadaigh (Jun 1, 2013)

Hossfly said:


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alic walker is concerned about human beings, not their ethnicity. you could learn from her.


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## member (Jun 1, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


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 _you_:


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## Hossfly (Jun 1, 2013)

reabhloideach said:


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So tell us what she has done for those human beings I have mentioned if she is such a concerned person.  Surely you must have a list of things she has done.
http://www.jewishjournal.com/articles/item/bearing_witness_a_world_away_from_la_20071102


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## Hossfly (Jun 1, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> Alice Walker is a lovely and honorable woman.
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> It is good to have someone of her stature defending the rights of the Palestinians.


And it certainly is nice to see, Tinnie, that many celebrities and other Americans have no problems with visiting Israel.  I wonder if all those speaking up for the Palestinians have spoken up about people in the world who truly need help.  Maybe Tinnie can research this for us.

America's Voices | Israel though the eyes of America's top celebrities

10 Celebs Who Travel to Israel (PHOTOS) | Global Grind

Latest Group Of Hollywood Celebrities In Israel | Israellycool


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 2, 2013)

Our boat, The Audacity of Hope, will be carrying letters to the people of Gaza. Letters expressing solidarity and love. That is all its cargo will consist of. If the Israeli military attacks us, it will be as if they attacked the mailman. This should go down hilariously in the annals of history. But if they insist on attacking us, wounding us, even murdering us, as they did some of the activists in the last flotilla, Freedom Flotilla I, what is to be done?

And what of the children of Palestine, who were ignored in our President's latest speech on Israel and Palestine, and whose impoverished, terrorized, segregated existence was mocked by the standing ovations recently given in the U.S. Congress to the prime minister of Israel?

I see children, all children, as humanity's most precious resource, because it will be to them that the care of the planet will always be left. One child must never be set above another, even in casual conversation, not to mention in speeches that circle the globe. 

Alice Walker: Why I'm sailing to Gaza - CNN.com


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## Hossfly (Jun 2, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> Our boat, The Audacity of Hope, will be carrying letters to the people of Gaza. Letters expressing solidarity and love. That is all its cargo will consist of. If the Israeli military attacks us, it will be as if they attacked the mailman. This should go down hilariously in the annals of history. But if they insist on attacking us, wounding us, even murdering us, as they did some of the activists in the last flotilla, Freedom Flotilla I, what is to be done?
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> And what of the children of Palestine, who were ignored in our President's latest speech on Israel and Palestine, and whose impoverished, terrorized, segregated existence was mocked by the standing ovations recently given in the U.S. Congress to the prime minister of Israel?
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Could you write Alice Walker, Tinnie, and ask her why she is not helping the unfortunate Black Muslim women from Darfur or even those poor Somalis who are dropping dead in the roads of starvation?  There are certainly more people in the world who need her help then the people in Gaza.  I guess she doesn't see the children in other groups who desperately could use some help from her.  Does she really think the children of Gaza look like this?
A New Dark Age Is Dawning


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## georgephillip (Jun 2, 2013)

"Ignoratio elenchi, also known as irrelevant conclusion,[1] is the informal fallacy of presenting an argument that may or may not be logically valid, but fails nonetheless to address the issue in question."

The issue in question is Alice Walker's belief that Israel is an apartheid state.
The misery of Muslims in Sudan, Somalia, or Syria don't really "...address the issue in question."


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## Hossfly (Jun 2, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> "Ignoratio elenchi, also known as irrelevant conclusion,[1] is the informal fallacy of presenting an argument that may or may not be logically valid, but fails nonetheless to address the issue in question."
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> The issue in question is Alice Walker's belief that Israel is an apartheid state.
> The misery of Muslims in Sudan, Somalia, or Syria don't really "...address the issue in question."


Regardless, Georgie Boy, can you tell us why those people who are always bashing Israel don't seem to help people in need in many places of the world.  Why is Israel and the Palestinians so important to them when there are people who are really suffering so much.  Could it be, Georgie Boy, it is because the Jews are not involved in the suffering of these other people.  As an aside, I can just see Georgie Boy turning down a cheap shirt made in Pakistan even thought Christians, Hindus, Shiites, Ahmadis, etc. are being harassed and/or killed by the Sunnis.


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## georgephillip (Jun 3, 2013)

Hossfly said:


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*You turning Red, Hoss?*

"As an informal fallacy, the red herring falls into a broad class of relevance fallacies. Unlike the strawman, which is premised on a distortion of the other party's position,[2] the red herring is a seemingly plausible, though ultimately irrelevant diversionary tactic.[3] 

"According to the Oxford English Diction, a red herring may be intentional, or unintentional, it does not necessarily mean a conscious intent to mislead."

Do I detect a conscious intent to mislead in your posts on matters of Jewish apartheid in Palestine?


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## Hossfly (Jun 3, 2013)

georgephillip said:


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Don't give us all this baloney, Georgie Boy.  The fact of the matter is that the people awlays bashing Israel and calling for boycotts close their eyes to the rest of the world where people could actually use some assistance because of their dire need.   Did you ever see Palestinians looking like this?  At least be grateful that you will never experience something like this since there are food pantries that will help you have things to eat in your subsidized apartment.  
Photos: Somalia Famine - Plog


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## georgephillip (Jun 5, 2013)

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You and "Brand Israel" are the prime bologna on this thread, Hossie:

Palestine Conditions "More brutal" than in U.S. South 50 Years Ago | Alice Walker | The Official Website for the American Novelist & Poet

*How many hours did you donate today to those in "dire need?"*


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## sealadaigh (Jun 5, 2013)

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hoss thinks a "worse" atrocity always justifies a lesser atrocity...and all for the greater glory of god.


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## Hossfly (Jun 5, 2013)

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Just whom do you think you are kidding, Georgie Boy, when it is obvious that your eyes are really closed to what is actually going on in the Arab world when it comes to the abuses and murder of innocent people.  And, Georigie Boy, why not read up about this so-called Israel apartheid from those who actually lived under apartheid in South Africa, or perhaps it is too much trouble for you to learn the truth.


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## sealadaigh (Jun 5, 2013)

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i have not noticed george condoning human rights abuses by anyone.


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## Hossfly (Jun 5, 2013)

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No, Hoss recognizes a bunch of phony baloney when he sees it, but you close your eyes to whatever you don't want to know, and this has been going on for years by you..
South African lawmaker: Israel NOT an apartheid state - Israel Today | Israel News


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## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 5, 2013)

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The article says what I have seen with my own eyes.  Arabs in Israel proper are doctors, nurses, and teachers...and gardeners, hairdressers and taxi-drivers.  The West Bank is where it gets a little tricky.


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## sealadaigh (Jun 5, 2013)

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desmond tutu and nelson mandela disagree.

Letter from Nelson Mandella to Thomas Friedman

BBC News | AFRICA | Tutu condemns Israeli 'apartheid'


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## sealadaigh (Jun 5, 2013)

ForeverYoung436 said:


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there was an institution of slavery in the united states prior to the emancipation proclamation even though there were free africaan americans.

i little bit of apartheid is like being a little bit pregnant.


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 5, 2013)

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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sBEfixrCL8]Arundhati Roy with Alice Walker and David Barsamian - Part 1 - YouTube[/ame]


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## Hossfly (Jun 5, 2013)

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Why not see what this Methodist preacher who actually fought apartheid in South Africa has to say.  He certainly sounds more qualified to tell what is going on since he actually now lives in Israel.   By the way, I saw you mention slavery in another post.  Let's not forget that it is your Muslim friends who are into slavery in the 21st Century, but of course you conveniently forget that.
Israel and Apartheid | Malcolm Hedding | International Speaker | Christian Zionist


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## Hossfly (Jun 5, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


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But, Tinnie, why are these people not speaking up against the treatment of people in Muslim countries?  Surely you, even as an Arab, have to be quite aware about how others are treated -- much, much worse than anything you imagine happens to your fellow Arabs in Israel.  And of course you don't see Israel keeping slaves the way some of your fellow Arabs do.  Could you possibly contact the people in your video to start speaking up about slavery in the Arab world?  You wouldn't even have to mention to them how innocent people are being killed in the Muslim world because of their religious beliefs.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 5, 2013)

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They say Apartheid in Israel is worse.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 5, 2013)

ANC Chair: Israel &#8220;far worse than Apartheid South Africa&#8221;

BDS South Africa*said in a press release distributed via email:There was widespread support from international delegates for the adoption and support of the Palestinian BDS call. However, there was one objection from a delegate from Germany who argued that Israel cannot be compared to Apartheid South Africa and thus an all-out boycott of Israel is &#8220;ill-informed.&#8221;*The ANC Chairperson,*Baleka Mbete, strongly responded saying that she has been to Palestine herself and that the Israeli regime is not only comparable but &#8220;far worse than Apartheid South Africa.&#8221;*Ms Mbete received a resounding round of applause from delegates for articulating this position.    Israel ?far worse than apartheid South Africa? says ANC chair as Pretoria conference backs boycott | The Electronic Intifada


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 5, 2013)

*
Warning Graphic Images in Video.*


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## Hossfly (Jun 5, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> ANC Chair: Israel &#8220;far worse than Apartheid South Africa&#8221;
> 
> BDS South Africa*said in a press release distributed via email:There was widespread support from international delegates for the adoption and support of the Palestinian BDS call. However, there was one objection from a delegate from Germany who argued that Israel cannot be compared to Apartheid South Africa and thus an all-out boycott of Israel is &#8220;ill-informed.&#8221;*The ANC Chairperson,*Baleka Mbete, strongly responded saying that she has been to Palestine herself and that the Israeli regime is not only comparable but &#8220;far worse than Apartheid South Africa.&#8221;*Ms Mbete received a resounding round of applause from delegates for articulating this position.    Israel ?far worse than apartheid South Africa? says ANC chair as Pretoria conference backs boycott | The Electronic Intifada


Frau Sherri, you can dig up all the articles dissing Israel as the most apartheid state (which is certainly ridiculous), and you can pull up all the videos you want, but unless these hypocrites start speaking about what is happening to innocent people in Muslim countries, to many, many people their nonsense falls on deaf ears.  Keep on dragging up Jesus in your posts if it makes you feel good, but Jesus himself would be appalled at what is happening to His followers in Muslim countries, and He would think this entire BDS movement is ridiculous given what is happening in many of the countries of your friends.  Maybe the people in this BDS movement have no problem with people being murdered because of their religious beliefs.  Yessiree, as we can see, the Palestine Propaganda Machine is going great guns.  By the way, Frau Sherri, have you ever thought of taking your dog out for regular walks?  After all, it can't be healthy to sit inside all day and night bashing Israel all over the Internet, and the fresh air would do you some good.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 5, 2013)

I have no intention of responding to posters who insultingly and  continuously address me as Frau Sherri. If posters cannot post with a bit of basic courtesy, they do not deserve a response to their posts. Im not German or a Frau. Sherri


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## Hossfly (Jun 5, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> I have no intention of responding to posters who insultingly and  continuously address me as Frau Sherri. If posters cannot post with a bit of basic courtesy, they do not deserve a response to their posts. Im not German or a Frau. Sherri


Why, Frau Sherri, do you really think many of the posters and viewers take you seriously when you keep on throwing out "Zionists" like it was a bad word and that the IDF are child killers in your opinion when you friends are busy murdering innocent people for their religious beliefs?


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 6, 2013)

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One of the reasons I support Palestine is that it is an Arab/Muslim country that is *not *like Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan. It sets a good example for the other countries in the region.


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## georgephillip (Jun 6, 2013)

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Your crocodile tears over the many abuses and murder of innocent people in the Arab world seems hypocritical since they serve primarily as a deflection against documented instances of Israeli apartheid in Palestine, or maybe I've missed the many threads you've started on Arab atrocities in Sudan and Somalia?

"In a 2007 report, United Nations Special Rapporteur for Palestine John Dugard stated that 'elements of the Israeli occupation constitute forms of colonialism and of apartheid, which are contrary to international law' and suggested that the '*legal consequences of a prolonged occupation with features of colonialism and apartheid*' be put to the International Court of Justice.[36] 

"In 2009 South Africa's statutory research agency the Human Sciences Research Council (HSRC) published a report stating that 'the State of Israel exercises control in the [Occupied Palestinian Territories] with the purpose of maintaining a system of *domination by Jews over Palestinians and that this system constitutes a breach of the prohibition of apartheid.'*"

Can you refute the claim that Jews currently enforce a system of domination over Arabs living between the River and the sea?

Israel and the apartheid analogy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## georgephillip (Jun 6, 2013)

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*Do you recognize a lie when you see it?*

Your link:

"In my numerous visits to Israel, I did not see any of the above," stated Meshoe. "Black, brown and white Jews and the Arab minority mingle freely in all public places, universities, restaurants, voting stations and public transportation. *All people have the right to vote*." 

In fact only a minority of Arabs living between the River and the sea have the right to vote for those writing the laws they currently live under. Is Meshoe calling for one person; one vote in Palestine?

Are you?


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 6, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


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> Warning Graphic Images in Video.* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZRdUWEx8a8&feature=youtube_gdata_player



For a period of time this video could be watched in full, but I notice now you can only watch a preview and have to pay a rental fee to watch the full documentary. It can also be purchased online, and TShirts are also being sold online.


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## toastman (Jun 6, 2013)

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Interesting note from your link :

*The Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law was passed by the Knesset in 2003 as an interim emergency measure after Israel had suffered its worst ever spate of suicide bombings[45] and after several Palestinians who had been granted permanent residency on the grounds of family reunification took part in terrorist attacks in Israel*

Israel gave citizenship to Palestinians, and in return, they blew themselves up and took down Israelis with them.


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## High_Gravity (Jun 6, 2013)

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Explain to me how Palestine sets an example for anyone.


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## High_Gravity (Jun 6, 2013)

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Ah so this is your deal, your here to sell Palestinian merchandise and videos. I got you.


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## toastman (Jun 6, 2013)

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Call now to get your Hamas Alarm Clocks, T-Shirts, Bobbleheads, Coffee Mugs, Anti-Israel propaganda signs and much much more before they are all sold out !

Call 1-800-JIHAD90

Call Now !!


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## toastman (Jun 6, 2013)

Whatever you do, DO NOT buy a Palestinians Alarm Clock !













For the record, it was a joke. But I know I'm going to get serious crap for this.

*runs away*


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## High_Gravity (Jun 6, 2013)

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## Roudy (Jun 6, 2013)

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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEdsUeq6xoY]Jihad Suicide Hotline - Episode 1 - YouTube[/ame]


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 6, 2013)

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No, I just ordered a DVD and Tshirt for myself, so that is how I know about all of that.


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## High_Gravity (Jun 6, 2013)

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Sure.


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 6, 2013)

toastman said:


> Whatever you do, DO NOT buy a Palestinians Alarm Clock !
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I have posted this before.

Great skit.


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## georgephillip (Jun 6, 2013)

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650,000 Jews stole Palestine from 1.2 million Arabs in 1948.
Are you still in denial about that?

"In summary, this analysis shows that Israel was established by the Zionist movement over 60 years ago with the intention and effect of achieving the permanent removal en masse of the indigenous, predominantly Arab population of Palestine for the purpose of Jewish colonization and development of a 'Jewish state.' 

"This amounts to a policy of population transfer (ethnic cleansing)[1] which is defined as the 'systematic, coercive and deliberate movement of population into or out of an area  with the effect or purpose of altering the demographic composition of a territory, particularly when that ideology or policy asserts the dominance of a certain group over another.'"

Apartheid, colonisation and occupation | BDSmovement.net


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## toastman (Jun 6, 2013)

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Your first line is just your usual Arab propaganda opening statement. It's a load of crap. BTW, why do you ignore the fact that the Palestinians (who BTW, were not even called Palestinians in 1948) were one of the belligerents who were allied with the Arab forces who clearly stated their clear intention to drive the Jews to the sea. 
BTW, the violence started before 1948, but it seems like your head doesn't go that far back:

1929 Hebron massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And of course, my personal favorite, the Arab Revolt from 1936-39 in which Palestinian Arabs, in combating the increase of Zionist immigration, started attacking Jews, their businesses and their convoys.


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 7, 2013)

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*Standard Israeli propaganda.* The Hebron massacre took place years after the Zionist invasion began. The Palestinians were merely defending their country from that invasion.


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## toastman (Jun 7, 2013)

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How is bringing up a massacre propaganda ?
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How is killing women and children defending?
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What country were they defending and when was it founded?
and
The Zionists immigration was encouraged by the British who ruled the land. The Palestinian Arabs had no right to say who can come to the BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE.

If you can answer all these questions in one post, I will be impressed


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 7, 2013)

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No you won't. You will just go back to Israel's propaganda.


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## sealadaigh (Jun 7, 2013)

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also most of the people killed in the al-khalil incident were european immigrants who were not even well received by the indigenous jews of al-khalil.


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## Roudy (Jun 7, 2013)

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Nope. Another lie. The Hebron massacre took place in 1929, and Hebron was an ancient Jewish community that Arab invaders massacred. 

Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage


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## toastman (Jun 7, 2013)

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I asked several simple questions and you failed to answer ALL of them. 
Every time I bring up hostilies perpetrated against JEws, you call it propaganda. Sorry Tinnie, but you are just making yourself to look like a fool.
Answer the questions


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## Roudy (Jun 7, 2013)

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According to Tinmore. Muslims have a God given right to kill, but Jews have no right to defend themselves. That's a no no.


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## toastman (Jun 7, 2013)

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And any time we bring up a massacre against Jews or hostilities against Jews commences by the Palestinian Arabs, it's 'Israeli Propaganda'


But then again, what more can we expect from a guy who says Israel has no land, no civilians and no borders and that Israel exists inside Palestine lol


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 7, 2013)

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 There, questions answered.


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 7, 2013)

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All true, look it up.


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## toastman (Jun 7, 2013)

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Even after the spanking Rocco gave in the Seek Justice thread, you belive those outlandish claims ?


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## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 7, 2013)

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Assuming you are right (and that's too simplistic and out-of context to be taken seriously), when are you going to get over it and move on?


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## toastman (Jun 7, 2013)

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SO if PAlestine was already a state in 1922 (Which btw is the dumbest thing you've said, becasue it was controlled by the British) why was there a partition plan in 1947 that was suggested to give Palestine a state??
Concerning the violation by the British, even if that is true, then the beef the Palestinians have is with the British, not the Jews.
When I say the Palestinian Arabs targeted women and children, I was referring to the Hebron Massacre:

1929 Hebron massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*They included a dozen women and three children under the age of three*


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 7, 2013)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



And don't forget that Britain tore away 78% of the Palestine Mandate, forbade Jewish immigration there, and named this artificial country after a river.  The Judge Jephthah came from that area, so it's really Jewish land as well.


----------



## toastman (Jun 7, 2013)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Yes, but even after that, the Jews gracefully accepted the 1947 partition plan, which would have given them much less territory than the original proposal. 
Arabs wanted all of the ME , they got greedy by rejecting the proposal !


----------



## georgephillip (Jun 7, 2013)

toastman said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


*What happened in 1917* that began a gradual transition toward mass violence between Jews and Arabs in Palestine?

"The city of Hebron holds special significance in Islam and Judaism, it being the site of the Tomb of the Patriarchs. In 1929, the population numbered around 20,000, the majority of whom were Muslim Arabs. 

"A small but significant community of around 700 Jews, most of them renting houses from Arab proprietors,[7] also lived there, mostly the descendants of Sephardim who had inhabited the town for centuries. 

"Ashkenazi Jews had been established in the town for at least a century.[8] 

"The two communities, Sephardim and Ashkenazi, maintained separate schools, worshipped in separate synagogues, and did not intermarry. The Sephardim were Arab-speakers, wore Arab-dress and were well-integrated, whereas many of the Ashkenazi community were yeshiva students who maintained 'foreign' ways, and had difficulties and misunderstandings with the Arab population.[9] 

"*Since the Balfour Declaration of 1917*, tensions had been growing between the Arab and Jewish communities in Palestine..." 

"Though Jews had suffered numerous vexations in the past, and this hostility was to take an anti-Zionist turn after the *Balfour Declaration.[11] generally, a peaceful relationship existed between both communities.*"

Israel as a Jewish state was created by the UK to serve as a "little, loyal Jewish Ulster" in pursuit of Arab oil, and the Arabs of Palestine were fully aware of that. That doesn't justify their crimes, but it should cast light on who got rich from them and on similar atrocities committed by the US in Iraq.

1929 Hebron massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 7, 2013)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


----------



## toastman (Jun 8, 2013)

Whats wrong  with you ???? 

File:BritishMandatePalestine1920.png - Wikimedia Commons


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 8, 2013)

My sources are UN documents, not Wikipedia.


----------



## toastman (Jun 8, 2013)

Show me your sources


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 8, 2013)

reabhloideach,  _et al,_

In the original posting, there was a premise:



reabhloideach said:


> (Alice)Walkers full letter (Excerpt) said:
> 
> 
> 
> > Palestine, whose major 'crime' is that they exist in their own land, land that Israel wants to control as its own.


*(QUESTION)*

Are these two premises really true?  Can it be said that the Arab Palestinian has committed absolutely no crimes and that Israel want to control these lands?

*(COMMENT)*

In every piece of good propaganda, there is some truth.

Clearly, it can be said that, in the beginning, if the original Zionists _(no meaning this in an ugly tone)_ did have a vision of an Israel much larger than it is today.  Yes, there is some truth in this.  It is fair to say, that the Jewish acceptance of the GA Resolution 181(II) did not meet the Jewish expectation; but, they accepted it anyway.

The Jewish accepted what the International Community offered as a solution. The Arab/Palestinian did not.  The Jewish took the "peaceful" path, the Arab/Palestinian chose "war" as an alternative solution _[hence becoming the Hostile Arab/Palestinian (HoAP)]_.



			
				Laws & Policies Pertaining to the Arab/Palestinian Choice for War said:
			
		

> The strategy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Normally it would be hard to figure out who started what, when.  But in this case it was easy.



			
				The Question of Palestine and the United Nations said:
			
		

> On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the *establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan*. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ http://unispal.un.org/pdfs/DPI2499.pdf



In this case, it is clear that the neighboring military coalition of Arab States were already prepared for invasion _(evidenced by troop movements for more than a month prior)_.  The entry of the neighboring military coalition of Arab States made Chapter VII (Article 51 - Self Defense) of the UN Charter applicable.  The Hostile Arab/Palestinian (HoAP) does not deny this happened.

Even today, the HoAP talks of the confrontation lasting nearly 70 years.  While the HoAP have lost some allies in that time, with very little support coming from any of the immediate neighboring Arab States, they have been successful in attaching themselves to the Islamic Republic of Iran _(on rocky ground since the Arab Spring began in Syria)_.

While the HoAP now tries to use International Protocols to suggest that only they have the right to self determination, there is no question that the codification of those rights, which the HoAP claim exclusively, were authored by the very same body that allotted to Israel territory by the partition plan _(which the Palestinians now recognize as legitimate)_ which triggered the conflict.

The occupation today, which admittedly is being very poorly administered by the Israelis, is a direct result of the outbreak of hostilities, and its continuation and amplification, over a Partition Plan which the Palestinians now accept as legitimate.



			
				Letter dated 25 March 1999 from the Permanent Observer of Palestine to the United Nations addressed to the Secretary-General said:
			
		

> For the Palestinian side, and since the strategic decision to forge a peace on the basis of coexistence, *resolution 181 (II) has become acceptable*. The resolution provides the legal basis for the existence of both the Jewish and the Arab States in Mandated Palestine. According to the resolution, Jerusalem should become a _corpus separatum_, which the Palestinian side is willing to take into consideration and to reconcile with the Palestinian position that East Jerusalem is part of the Palestinian territory and the capital of the Palestinian State. *The Palestinian side adheres to international legitimacy and respects General Assembly resolution 181 (II), as well as Security Council resolution 242 (1967), the implementation of which is the aim of the current Middle East peace process.*
> 
> _*(Signed)*_ Nasser AL-KIDWA
> Ambassador
> ...



*(SIDEBAR)*

It has been customary law that the defeated party, in any war, pay an indemnity or series of payments intended to cover the cost of defense, damages and injury inflicted upon the winner.  Normally, *War Reparations* can be in any form of value the parties agree upon; including goods, services, funds and the transfers of land for annexation.  _(Example:  At the end of the Spanish-American War, the US acquired the Philippines, Puerto Rico and Guam.)_

What *War Reparations* should the HoAP face, given the extraordinary period of asymmetric warfare, terrorism and conventional conflict?  What would be fair for them to forfeit?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman (Jun 8, 2013)

Understanding the Arab-Israeli Conflict

*Kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history and religion.&#8221;
- Haj Amin al-Husseini, Mufti of Jerusalem*

*&#8220;I personally wish that the Jews do not drive us to this war, as this will be a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Tartar massacre or the Crusader wars.&#8221;
- Azzam Pasha, Secretary-General of the Arab League*

*&#8220;If the Jewish state becomes a fact, and this is realized by the Arab peoples, they will drive the Jews who live in their midst into the sea&#8230; Even if we are beaten now in Palestine, we will never submit. We will never accept the Jewish state... But for politics, the Egyptian army alone, or volunteers of the Muslim Brotherhood, could have destroyed the Jews.&#8221;
- Hassan al-Banna, Muslim Brotherhood founder*

*&#8220;In demanding the return of the Palestinian refugees the Arabs mean their return as masters, not slaves, or to put it more clearly &#8211; the intention is the extermination of Israel.&#8221;
- Salah al-Din, Egyptian Foreign Minister*

*&#8220;Israel, to the Arab world, is like a cancer to the human body, and the only way of remedy is to uproot it just like a cancer&#8230; Had we united then [in 1948] Israel would not have come into existence. Israel is a serious wound in the Arab world body, and we cannot endure the pain of this wound forever. We don&#8217;t have the patience to see Israel remain occupying part of Palestine for long&#8230; We Arabs total about 50,000,000. Why don&#8217;t we sacrifice 10,000,000 of our number to live in pride and self-respect?&#8221;
- King Saud of Saudi Arabia
(New York Times, January 10, 1954)*

*&#8220;We are awaiting aggression by Israel and any supporters of Israel. We will make it a decisive battle and get rid of Israel once and for all&#8230; This is the dream of every Arab.&#8221;
- Gamal Abdel Nasser, President of Egypt*

*&#8220;If the refugees return to Israel &#8211; Israel will cease to exist.&#8221;
- Gamal Abdel Nasser*

*&#8220;... collective Arab military preparations, when they are completed, will constitute the ultimate practical means for the final liquidation of Israel.&#8221;
- Arab League*

*&#8220;Our path to Palestine will not be covered with a red carpet or with yellow sand. Our path to Palestine will be covered with blood&#8230; In order that we may liberate Palestine, the Arab nation must unite, the Arab armies must unite, and a unified plan of action must be established.&#8221;
- Gamal Abdel Nasser *


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 8, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn,  _et al,_

Yeah, this is subject to interpretation.  Clearly, the Royal Family has a different take on the history.



SherriMunnerlyn said:


> British Mandate Palestine never included Transjordan. You Zionists cannot stop distorting History.


*(REFERENCE)*



			
				The Making of Transjordan said:
			
		

> In 1920 and for a brief duration, Faisal assumed the throne of Syria and his elder brother Abdullah was offered the crown of Iraq by the Iraqi representatives. However, the British government ignored the will of the Iraqi people. Shortly afterward, *the newly-founded League of Nations awarded Britain the mandates over Transjordan, Palestine and Iraq*. France was given the mandate over Syria and Lebanon, but had to take Damascus by force, removing King Faisal from the throne to which he had been elected by the General Syrian Congress in 1920.
> 
> *SOURCE:* Jordan - History - The Making of Transjordan





			
				LoN/UN Archive:  AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE said:
			
		

> X.--TRANS-JORDANIA.
> 
> *Included in the area of the Palestine Mandate is the territory of Trans-Jordania. *It is bounded on the north by the frontier of Syria, placed under the mandate of France; on the south by the kingdom of the Hejaz; and on the west by the line of the Jordan and the Dead Sea; while on the east it stretches into the desert and ends--the boundary is not yet defined--where Mesopotamia begins. Trans-Jordania has a population of probably 350,000 people. It contains a few small towns and large areas of fertile land, producing excellent wheat and barley. The people are partly settled townsmen and agriculturists, partly wandering Bedouin; the latter, however, cultivate areas, more or less fixed, during certain seasons of the year.​
> _*SOURCE:*_ Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the LoN/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)



*(COMMENT)*

I have heard many a pro-Palestinian, in an attempt to exaggerate the extent to which the percentage of distribution to the Jewish was disproportionately large, use this same argument.

It is simply propaganda, with a trace of truth in it.

The UK was administering the region jointly under the Mandate until it became obvious that the Hashemite Kingdom was going to evolve separately.  One of the last Joint Annual Reports is found at:

[quote="As is" reference - not a United Nations document - Source: League of Nations 31 December 1931]REPORT

by His Majesty's Government in the United
Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern
Ireland to the Council of the League of
Nations on the Administration of

PALESTINE AND TRANS-JORDAN

FOR THE YEAR

1931​
_*SOURCE:*_ Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN (31 December 1931) 
[/quote]

I hope this lays this question to rest.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman (Jun 8, 2013)

Rocco, lets make its simple for Sherri, and Tinnie who thanked Sherris post about the original Mandate.
Did the original British Mandate include what is now called Jordan (Transjordan)

Yes or no ?


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 8, 2013)

toastman,  _et al,_



toastman said:


> Rocco, lets make its simple for Sherri, and Tinnie who thanked Sherris post about the original Mandate.
> Did the original British Mandate include what is now called Jordan (Transjordan)
> 
> Yes or no ?


*(ANSWER)*

Yes!  No question; fully documented.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman (Jun 8, 2013)

Thank you! I already knew this (as did most rational people). 
I simply don't understand how people like Sherri can deny events like this when the evidence contradicting what she says is RIGHT IN FRONT OF HER

Sherri, what do you have to say for yourself. Are you going to retract your statement ?


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 8, 2013)

MANDATE FOR PALESTINE________LEAGUE OF NATIONS*MANDATE FOR PALESTINE. Mandate for Palestine - League of Nations (12 August 1922). That is the official League of Nations Mandate For Palestine and it does not include Transjordan. There was no prior Mandate approved that included Transjordan and Palestine. Jordan was set apart to be a separate nation in 1916 and was not a part of British Mandate Palestine. It was administered separately from the beginning.


----------



## toastman (Jun 8, 2013)

No one said it was approved or implemented . it was more of a 'proposal'
The fact that the original mandate includes Transjordan is not up for debate.

Let me make it easier for you Sherri.

Go to Google and type in 'Original British Mandate' . Since you're not capable of comprehending the articles regarding this, click on images. Then come back here and tell us what you learned


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 8, 2013)

toastman said:


> Thank you! I already knew this (as did most rational people).
> I simply don't understand how people like Sherri can deny events like this when the evidence contradicting what she says is RIGHT IN FRONT OF HER
> 
> Sherri, what do you have to say for yourself. Are you going to retract your statement ?



I read the Official Mandate documents for myself and believe what is written in them.


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 8, 2013)

MANDATE FOR PALESTINE________LEAGUE OF NATIONS*MANDATE FOR PALESTINE.  This is the Official Mandate. That is my source, my source is not Wikipedia.  http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/2FCA2C68106F11AB05256BCF007BF3CB


----------



## toastman (Jun 8, 2013)

Irrelevant. 
*The original British mandate included Transjordan*

This is NOT up for debate .. End of story ! Jeez !!


----------



## Roudy (Jun 8, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 8, 2013)

Article 25 of the Mandate excludes Transjordan from British Mandate Palestine.


----------



## toastman (Jun 8, 2013)

Then explain the maps above Sherri....


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 8, 2013)

toastman said:


> Irrelevant.
> *The original British mandate included Transjordan*
> 
> This is NOT up for debate .. End of story ! Jeez !!



If true, then you will produce that Mandate so we can all read it. Where is that Mandate you claim exists?


----------



## toastman (Jun 8, 2013)

I did earlier. 
Like you always say, I cannot help the blind see !


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 8, 2013)

toastman said:


> Then explain the maps above Sherri....



I do not have to explain Wikipedia maps, they are not my source.


----------



## toastman (Jun 8, 2013)

Post #71 by Rocco Sherri. Read it. You need to stop lying. IT gets you nowhere !


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 8, 2013)

toastman said:


> I did earlier.
> Like you always say, I cannot help the blind see !



Where is it? We cannot see something that does not exist.


----------



## toastman (Jun 8, 2013)

Saying the Original Mandate didn't include Tranjordan is like saying the sky isn't blue lol


----------



## toastman (Jun 8, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > I did earlier.
> ...



Post #71


----------



## Roudy (Jun 8, 2013)

You want maps?  I got maps for ya!






















http://www.users.cloud9.net/~recross/israel-watch/images/aa_304.jpg


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 8, 2013)

POST 71 references no prior Mandates for British Mandate Palestine.


----------



## toastman (Jun 8, 2013)

You have yet to make any comments regarding the maps that Roudy has posted.


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 8, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn,  

I can lead you to the water, but I can't make you drink.



SherriMunnerlyn said:


> MANDATE FOR PALESTINE________LEAGUE OF NATIONS*MANDATE FOR PALESTINE. Mandate for Palestine - League of Nations (12 August 1922). That is the official League of Nations Mandate For Palestine and it does not include Transjordan. There was no prior Mandate approved that included Transjordan and Palestine. Jordan was set apart to be a separate nation in 1916 and was not a part of British Mandate Palestine. It was administered separately from the beginning.


*(COMMENT)*

In addition to the references, _supra (Posting #71)_, which includes Jordanian Official History, I bring your attention to the Treaty. 

Trans-Jordan was part of the Ottoman Empire.  



			
				PART III said:
			
		

> *ARTICLE 95.*
> 
> The High Contracting Parties agree to entrust, by application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory to be selected by the said Powers. The Mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2, 1917, by the British Government, and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.
> 
> ...



The Mandate included all of Trans-Jordan _(JORDANIA)_.  But to be fair, there were some later limitations placed on the Mandatory, relative to Trans-Jordan.  Special promises were made.



			
				REPORT ON PALESTINE ADMINISTRATION 1922 said:
			
		

> Following a memorandum presented by His Majesty's Government in September to the League of Nations, a resolution was passed by the Council of the League to exclude Transjordan from the Articles of the Mandate which concern the Holy Places and the measures to be taken in concert with the Jewish Agency for the establishment of a Jewish National Home.
> 
> The Order in Council also contains a provision that it shall not apply to the Transjordan territory.
> 
> *SOURCE:* Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN - UK report (31 December 1922)



Trans-Jordan was not to be considered when apportioning land for the Jewish National Home, or for immigration purposes by the Jewish Agency.  And Jerusalem was to become a special case.  Additionally this meant that, Trans-Jordan was exempt from Article 25 of the Mandate.

In the very First Annual Report by the Mandatory to the League of Nations, you will note that the following (very last item):



			
				REPORT BY HIS BRITANNIC MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT ON THE PALESTINE ADMINISTRATION 1923 said:
			
		

> AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF PALESTINE AND
> SYRIA IN RESPECT OF CUSTOMS REGULATIONS ON FOREIGN
> GOODS IN TRANSIT TO SYRIA VIA PALESTINE, AND TO
> PALESTINE VIA SYRIA​
> ...



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 8, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> SherriMunnerlyn,
> 
> I can lead you to the water, but I can't make you drink.
> 
> ...



The fact is The League Of Nations only ultimately set up one Mandate for Palestine and that was in 1922 and by its terms Transjordan was excluded. Those are the facts. The administration of Palestine and Transjordan was handled separately by Great Britian from the very beginning of the Mandate in 1922, the year The League Of Nations adopted the Mandate. Transjordan was not part of Palestine.


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 8, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn,

What terms.



SherriMunnerlyn said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > SherriMunnerlyn,
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

What document says Trans-Jordan was not included?   I've just showed you several which specifically says it was included.  What can you show that excludes it?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 9, 2013)

The administration of Palestine and Transjordan was separate from the time the time the Mandate was adopted forward. Show me anytime this was not true.


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 9, 2013)

When we look at the history of Palestine,  a history that goes back to the time of Herodotus, if not further, it becomes clear its borders have been in constant change. There were times from references of Greek writers that they even used the word to describe a region that included Syria. And the word Palestine came from the word Philistine and at times the region referred to a much smaller region along the coast.  SInce the Mandate was approved by The League of Nations in 1922,   Transjordan was carved out of Palestine and we have two distinct regions, Palestine and Transjordan. While some may argue this was an artificial division, much of the  ME was carved up in this way by the West after the breakup of the Ottoman Empire. Certain families were rewarded by the West and given kingdoms in what were largely Western created nations like Iraq and Jordan. What is funny is watching Zionist  settlers from the West argue here 
 Palestine was stolen from them, while indigenous Palestinians make no such argument.


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 9, 2013)

"Palestine*(Arabic:*&#1601;&#1604;&#1587;&#1591;&#1610;&#1606;**Filas&#7789;&#299;n,*Falas&#7789;&#299;n,*Filis&#7789;&#299;n;*Greek:*&#928;&#945;&#955;&#945;&#953;&#963;&#964;&#943;&#957;&#951;,*Palaistin&#275;;*Latinalaestina;*Hebrew: &#1508;&#1500;&#1513;&#1514;&#1497;&#1504;&#1492;*Palestina) is a conventional name, among others, for the geographic region in Western Asia between the*Mediterranean Sea*and the*Jordan River, and various adjoining lands.[1][2][3][4][5][6]*The name was used by*Ancient Greek*writers, and was later used for the Roman province*Syria Palaestina, the Byzantine*Palaestina Prima*and the Umayyad and Abbasid province of*Jund Filastin. The region is also known as the*Land of Israel(Hebrew: &#1488;&#1512;&#1509;&#1470;&#1497;&#1513;&#1512;&#1488;&#1500;*Eretz-Yisra'el),[7]*the*Holy Land, the*Southern Levant,[8]Cisjordan, and historically has been known by other names including*Canaan,*Southern Syria*and*Jerusalem.Situated at a strategic location between*Egypt,*Syria*and*Arabia, and the birthplace of*Judaismand*Christianity, the region has a long and tumultuous history as a crossroads for religion, culture, commerce, and politics. The region has been controlled by numerous different peoples, including*Ancient Egyptians,*Canaanites,*Israelites,*Assyrians,*Babylonians,*Persians,*Ancient Greeks,*Romans,*Byzantines, the*Sunni*Arab Caliphates, the*Shia*Fatimid Caliphate,*Crusaders,Ayyubids,*Mameluks,*Ottomans, the*British*and modern*Israelis*and*Palestinians.".  Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 9, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn;

Using your source from another thread.



SherriMunnerlyn said:


> The administration of Palestine and Transjordan was separate from the time the time the Mandate was adopted forward. Show me anytime this was not true.





RoccoR said:


> SherriMunnerly,  _et al,_
> 
> Oddly enough, I've studied this book.
> 
> ...



v/r
R


----------



## toastman (Jun 9, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> The administration of Palestine and Transjordan was separate from the time the time the Mandate was adopted forward. Show me anytime this was not true.



He asked you for references concerning your claim that Transjordan wasn't part of the original Mandate. He provided a source. All you are doing is giving your opinion. 

Once again Sherri, the fact that Transjordan was part of the original Mandate is NOT UP FOR DEBATE ...

Since you can't comprehend the what Rocco has posted, this should make it easier for you:

https://www.google.ca/search?q=orig...urce=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=8HW0UcHUJ-Tq0wH9q4H4AQ


----------



## georgephillip (Jun 9, 2013)

Rocco...excuse me for butting in.
Is it accurate the say that in 1948 Mandate Palestine 650,000 Jews and 1.2 million Arabs lived on the land between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River?


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 9, 2013)

toastman said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> > The administration of Palestine and Transjordan was separate from the time the time the Mandate was adopted forward. Show me anytime this was not true.
> ...


Transjordan was carved out of Palestine from the time the Mandate was adopted and was never administered with Palestine. That is not up for debate.


----------



## toastman (Jun 9, 2013)

Transjordan was part of the original British Mandate before the 1947 UN Partition Plan. 

End of story


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 9, 2013)

georgephillip;  _et al,_

You're not butting-in.



georgephillip said:


> Rocco...excuse me for butting in.
> Is it accurate the say that in 1948 Mandate Palestine 650,000 Jews and 1.2 million Arabs lived on the land between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River?


*(COMMENT)*

Yes!  I won't argue with the numbers _(See Page 5:   Chapter 1: The Question of Palestine before the United Nations:  http://unispal.un.org/pdfs/DPI2499.pdf )_, they are close enough for general discussion.

Article 25 did use the Jordan River as a marker for the Western portion versus the Eastern portion.  Trans-Jordan was often referred to as the "territories lying between the Jordan and the eastern boundary of Palestine;" leaving what we normally consider the Palestine as West of the Jordan (as you say: Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River).

*(SIDEBAR)*

The Mandate was concluded in July 1922, made effective in August.  During the course of the War, certain promises were made by the Allied Powers to certain Arab Leaders who made a contribution to the war effort.  On May 15, 1923, the Emirate of Transjordan _(Emir Abdullah)_ was given formal recognition under Article 25 of the Palestine Mandate _(territorial specific)_, and self-governance under Article 2 of the Palestine Mandate _(General Authority)_.   This was the first carve-out of the Mandate for an Arab State.  While still subject to the Mandate, the Emirate of Transjordan was largely under self-rule, subject to the oversight of the Mandatory.  The Treaty of London (1946) superseded all the previous laws and agreements _(Anglo-Transjordan treaty and the Organic Law of 1928)_, granting full independence, but with a financial dependency on the UK _(that would not end until the 1950's)_.  In May 1946, the Emirate of Transjordan became the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan; admitted to the UN in 1955.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 9, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > SherriMunnerlyn said:
> ...



Palestine and Transjordan were administered as two separate mandates.


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 9, 2013)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

Hummm,



P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine and Transjordan were administered as two separate mandates.


_*(QUESTION)*_

Can you point me to the Mandate for Trans-Jordan?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman (Jun 9, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...




This statement is 100% false. Plain and simple


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 9, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> Hummm,
> 
> ...



A mincing of words.



> The territory was officially under the British Mandate for Palestine* but had a fully autonomous governing system from Mandatory Palestine.*
> 
> Transjordan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



They were the same "mandate" but administered separately.


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 9, 2013)

The*Emirate of Transjordan*(Arabic:*&#1573;&#1605;&#1575;&#1585;&#1577; &#1588;&#1585;&#1602; &#1575;&#1604;&#1571;&#1585;&#1583;&#1606;Im&#257;rat Sharq al-Urdun), also hyphenated asTrans-Jordan*and previously known asTransjordania*or*Trans-Jordania, was a*British protectorate*established in April 1921. TheHashemite*dynasty ruled the protectorate as well as the neighbouring protectorate of*Iraq, following the*Cairo Conference. The territory was officially under the*British Mandate for Palestine*but had a fully autonomous governing system from Mandatory Palestine. In 1946, the*Emiratebecame an independent state. The state was renamed to*Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.  Transjordan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 9, 2013)

We are having arguments largely semantic, essentially what have is British Mandate Palestine that includes from Day 1 of the Mandate two independently administered regions, Mandatory Palestine and Transjordan.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 9, 2013)

"This article is about the Mandate instrument passed by the League of Nations granting Britain a mandate over the area currently occupied by Israel, the West Bank, the Gaza Strip and Jordan. For a history of the period, see*Mandatory Palestine*and*Transjordan."  http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_for_Palestine_(legal_instrument)


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 9, 2013)

"The*British Mandate for Palestine, or simply the*Mandate for Palestine, was a*legal commission*for the administration of the territory that had formerly constituted the*OttomanSanjaks*of*Nablus,*Acre, the Southern portion of the*Beirut Vilayet, and the*Mutasarrifate of Jerusalem, prior to the*Armistice of Mudros. The draft of the Mandate was formally confirmed by the Council of the*League of Nations*on 24 July 1922, amended via the 16 September 1922Transjordan memorandum[1][2]*and which came into effect on 29 September 1923[1]*following the ratification of the*Treaty of Lausanne.[3][4]*The mandate ended at midnight on 14 May 1948.The document was based on the principles contained in Article 22 of the draft*Covenant of the League of Nations*and the*San Remo Resolution*of 25 April 1920 by the principal*Allied and associated powers*after the First World War.[1]*The mandate formalised*British*rule in the southern part of*Ottoman Syria*from 1923&#8211;1948.The formal objective of the League of Nations Mandate system was to administer parts of the defunct*Ottoman Empire, which had been in control of the Middle East since the 16th century, "until such time as they are able to stand alone."[5]*The mandate document formalised the division of the British protectorates -*Palestine, to include a*national home for the Jewish people, under direct British rule, and*Transjordan, an*Emirate*governed semi-autonomously from Britain under the rule of the*Hashemite*family."  [1]   http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_for_Palestine_(legal_instrument)


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## RoccoR (Jun 9, 2013)

P F Tinmore;  _et al,_

Now who is quibbling?



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

Well, I did not defer to "wikipedia" in search of an answer that could be manipulated into something that I already explained in Postings #71, #95 and #104; as well as, Posting #76 of the The '67 Borders Discussion as to the why.

The first misinterpretation is the claim you (and Sherry) make is that "it was not part of the Mandate of Palestine."  It most certainly was part of the Mandate; clearly.

The second misinterpretation is the claim that it was "administered separately" from the Mandate.  It was not; it was administered in accordance with Articles 2 and 25 of the Mandate, pursuant to pre-Mandate arrangements made and agreed upon with the HRH Amir Faisal on 3 January 1919, on behalf of the Arab Kingdom of Hejaz.

To suggest that the Emirate was autonomous is not the same as saying it was not under Mandate.  The same troops were stationed in the Emirate as were stationed West of the Jordan River.  The borders were set, through Arab agreement, by the same commission, and the bills were generally paid by the same government as paid for the administration of West of the Jordan River (financial dependence).   ​
To say that between 1922 and 1946 _(during the period TransJordan was known as the Emirate of Transjordan)_ it was administered separately is disingenuous.  It would be fair to say that it was administered differently; as I said previously, do to promises made, even before the Treaty of Sevres was concluded, it was agreed that the Emirate would not be considered part of the land apportionment for the Jewish National Home.  So those aspects of the Mandate for Palestine were not were not applied to the Administration.  However, the agreement between the made Arab Leadership on behalf of the Arab Kingdom of Hejaz _(later to be known as Saudi Arabia)_ did agree to "encourage and stimulate immigration of Jews into Palestine on a large scale, and as quickly as possible to settle Jewish immigrants."  _(Or as you say, the "foreigns" were invited by the Arab Leadership.)_  All this was done under the Mandate for Palestine as the tool to the agreement made by the Arab Leadership.

To be administered differently under the same tool, is not the same as being administered separately under a different tool --- as you and Sherry claimed.  It is like using a claw hammer.  Same tool; but one side of the head puts the nail in, the other side pulls the nail out --- but it is the same tool; by the same user, for ultimately the same job.  _(No quibbling with the facts required!)_

Most Respectfully,
R


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 9, 2013)

"The boundaries of the Palestine Mandate were not defined when it was awarded in April 1920 at the*San Remo conference. In a telegram to the Foreign Office summarising the conclusions of the San Remo conference, the Foreign Secretary, Lord Curzon, stated: "The boundaries will not be defined in Peace Treaty but are to be determined at a later date by principal Allied Powers". When Samuel set up the civil mandatory government in mid-1920 he was explicitly instructed by Curzon that his jurisdiction did not include Transjordan.[36] "   http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_for_Palestine(legal_instrument)


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 9, 2013)

Administration of governments within Mandatory Palestine and Transjordan were separate from the beginning of the British Mandate and  throughout the entire Mandate. Mandatory Palestine never included Transjordan and Transjordan never included Mandatory Palestine.


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## RoccoR (Jun 9, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn;  _et al,_

Yes, agreed.



SherriMunnerlyn said:


> "The boundaries of the Palestine Mandate were not defined when it was awarded in April 1920 at the*San Remo conference. In a telegram to the Foreign Office summarising the conclusions of the San Remo conference, the Foreign Secretary, Lord Curzon, stated: "The boundaries will not be defined in Peace Treaty but are to be determined at a later date by principal Allied Powers". When Samuel set up the civil mandatory government in mid-1920 he was explicitly instructed by Curzon that his jurisdiction did not include Transjordan.[36] "   http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_for_Palestine(legal_instrument)


*(COMMENT)*

This is exactly the same position I've posted several times.  It comes from Article 95 of the Treaty, which I've posted many times.  But in fact, it was an arrangement made in 1919 by agreement with the Arab Leadership; NOT the 1920 San Remo Conference which merely summarizes several agreements.

It is a very short agreement but had enormous consequences.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## Hossfly (Jun 9, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > reabhloideach said:
> ...


Sorry to take so long in answering you, Georgie Boy.  Instead of sitting in a one-room apartment, I was out with some old buddies having a good time.  It's really fun to actually have conversations with real human beings in person.  Try it some time.  Meanwhile, all citizens of Israel have the right to vote.  Those living in the territories are not citizens of Israel, and they can vote in their own elections,  I have a great idea.  Why don't you take a bus down to Watts or Compton and ask your friends to contribute something to their brethren in Africa to make the lives of these Africans in need more comfortable since you seem so concerned about people?


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## Hossfly (Jun 9, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Don't give me this baloney about crocodile tears, Georgie Boy.  Do you really think that everyone here, the posters and the viewers alike, think you would be even posting about the "poor Palestinians" if the Jews were not involved.  So tell us, since you have all the time in the world, how many forums are you actually on condemning what is happening to innocent people in the Muslim world.  Why not list these forums for us so we can check out what you are saying since you want us to believe that you are this "great" humanitarian who is concerned for all?


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## Hossfly (Jun 9, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> > *
> ...


How come your friends never see fit to make videos about what is happening to innocent people in Muslims countries?  Is it because the Jews are not involved so that they actually don't care what happens to these innocent people -- no matter how many are murdered?  I think any intelligent person can see how big this Arab propaganda machine is by now.  It's a good thing (much to Frau Sherri's annoyance) that there are Christian groups operating in different Muslim countries that are able to keep people apprised of just what is happening, and there is someone like Raymond Ibrahim to collect all this information.
Raymond Ibrahim's Articles | Human Events


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 9, 2013)

"G4S involvement in the detention of Palestinian children in Israeli jails dominated the companys Annual General Meeting (AGM) on Thursday 6th June, overshadowing all other business, including last years Olympic security fiasco, said Palestinian Solidarity Campaign (PSC) in a press release.Throughout the two hour AGM, Palestinian solidarity campaigners demanded to know when G4S would be ending its contracts with Israeli prisons, where Palestinian children, women and men are held, often without trial, and routinely tortured.Of the 16 questions asked by shareholders, seven were about G4S Israeli prison contracts.Campaigners holding shares were dotted amongst the total of 60 shareholders.Activists from PSC made it clear to new CEO, Ashley Almanza, and the G4S board that the torture of children is absolutely prohibited under international law and yet is documented as taking place at Al Jalame prison in Israel.*"    G4S Annual General Meeting Dominated by Controversy Over Israeli Prison Contracts ? International Middle East Media Center | Ramy Abdeljabbar's Palestine and World News A Continuing BDS Success Story! Go BDS!


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## georgephillip (Jun 9, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


There are approximately equal numbers of Arabs and Jews currently living between the River and the sea; all Jews are allowed a vote in determining who writes the laws they live under. The same is not true for all Arabs. Are you encouraging segregation forever in Palestine, Hossie?


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## toastman (Jun 9, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



Define racism


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 10, 2013)

BDS is an AntiRacist Movement. As far as I am concerned, all who oppose it are racists. What does Alice Walker stand for? To me, she is a human being who has devoted much of her life to speaking out against prejudice and racism. It makes perfect since that she has become a spokesperson for BDS. Sherri


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## Coyote (Jun 10, 2013)

*14 Posts have been cleaned from this thread for trolling/derailment - if yours is poofed, you know why.

If you want to talk about individual poster's personal attributes or lack there-of take it to the FLAME ZONE.

If you want to discuss what folks are doing in other parts of the world (ie - not Israel, not Palestine) - pull out your map, educate yourself and take it to the proper arena.

For those who are making the effort to stay topical - many thanks *


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## RoccoR (Jun 10, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn,   _et al,_

I don't see it this way at all.



SherriMunnerlyn said:


> BDS is an AntiRacist Movement. As far as I am concerned, all who oppose it are racists. Sherri


*(COMMENT)*

The Boycotts, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) Movement is a campaign against Israel --- a non-violent means of protest that opposes perceived violations international law and Palestinian rights.   It is a countermeasure to the security quarantine.

It has nothing to do with racism.  The use of the "Race Card" _(the world has seen many time before)_ is a secondary effort to instigate public dissent and chaos.  The use of the "Race Card" is an organized effort that wants to portray or incite the idea that Israel discriminates against Hostile Arab/Palestinians (HoAP) on the basis of ethnic or genetic inferiority; and suggesting it is not because the HoAP have a history of establish criminal behaviors or a background of past practices that create a security threat to the safety and integrity of Israel.  It attempt to demonize the Israel.

Unfortunately, the use of the BDS Campaign to camouflage and spread Black Propaganda by means of the "Race Card", also has a negative effect on the BDS Campaign.  

Essentially, there is nothing wrong with the original concept behind the BDS Campaign; very typical of a free political process using the non-violent tools at hand.  But there will always be those elements that will attempt to high-jack the salient points the BDS Campaign has to make and replace them with material for the purpose of instigating and inciting trouble.

There is no effort _(relative to the security quarantine)_ on the part of the Israeli to suggest that the HoAP is ethnically or genetically inferior.  The "quarantine" minimizes the HoAP organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating terrorist activities and to take appropriate practical measures to ensure that our respective territories are not used for terrorist installations or training camps, or for the preparation or organization of terrorist acts intended to be committed against Israel or its citizens; threatening the sovereign integrity of the nation.  The BDS Movement take the opposite view and opposes this self-defense effort.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## toastman (Jun 10, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> BDS is an AntiRacist Movement. As far as I am concerned, all who oppose it are racists. What does Alice Walker stand for? To me, she is a human being who has devoted much of her life to speaking out against prejudice and racism. It makes perfect since that she has become a spokesperson for BDS. Sherri




Like Rocco said, you played the race card ...AGAIN !


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## sealadaigh (Jun 10, 2013)

toastman said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> > BDS is an AntiRacist Movement. As far as I am concerned, all who oppose it are racists. What does Alice Walker stand for? To me, she is a human being who has devoted much of her life to speaking out against prejudice and racism. It makes perfect since that she has become a spokesperson for BDS. Sherri
> ...




how many times have pro-palestinian posters been called anti-semites and the like by jews and zionists. meanwhile people like hossfly, roudy, marg, you and many others play the race card all the time.

the BDS campaign is not racist...and can't rocco spesk for himself or does he need you to parrot for him.

"Black Propaganda" actually sounds pretty racist to me.


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## toastman (Jun 10, 2013)

Seal, Sherri just stated that whoever opposes BDS is a racist. Go look above yourself post #123


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 10, 2013)

People, use your minds. BDS was a response to Apartheid in South Africa. What is Apartheid? It is a system based on prejudice and racism. Israeli Apartheid is likewise a system based on prejudice and racism. BDS opposes Israeli Apartheid and prejudice and racism. It logically follows that supporting BDS is opposing racism and opposing BDS is supporting racism.


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## sealadaigh (Jun 10, 2013)

toastman said:


> Seal, Sherri just stated that whoever opposes BDS is a racist. Go look above yourself post #123



so what? that has nothing to do with what i said.

as for those opposing BDS, i don't think they are necessarily racist but they do support the racist policies of israel towards their palestinian population.

but it sure seems like you (zionists and jews) can call people racist anytime you want but when it comes back at you, you whine and things vanish.


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## sealadaigh (Jun 10, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> People, use your minds. BDS was a response to Apartheid in South Africa. What is Apartheid? It is a system based on prejudice and racism. Israeli Apartheid is likewise a system based on prejudice and racism. BDS opposes Israeli Apartheid and prejudice and racism. It logically follows that supporting BBD is opposing racism and opposing BDS is supporting racism.



i don't think you can make that leap. i think it is possible to oppose BDS on grounds not related to racism.

that does not , however, change the fact that most of those those opposing BDS are bigots of some sort or another and, indeed, some are racists.


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## RoccoR (Jun 10, 2013)

reabhloideach,  _et al,_

I had not thought your vocabulary was that limited.  

Black propaganda originates from an undefined source.  Propaganda is described in terms of colors (not related to race); black, grey, white propaganda.  I just used the name in common practice.​


reabhloideach said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > SherriMunnerlyn said:
> ...


*(APOLOGIES)*

I sincerely apologies to anyone that might have taken offense in using the phrase "Black Propaganda."  It is not a racist term, but the technical term for a kind of propaganda used.



			
				Black propaganda said:
			
		

> Black propaganda is false information and material that purports to be from a source on one side of a conflict, but is actually from the opposing side. It is typically used to vilify, embarrass or misrepresent the enemy.[1] Black propaganda contrasts with grey propaganda, the source of which is not identified, and white propaganda, in which the real source is declared and usually more accurate information is given, albeit slanted, distorted and omissive. Black propaganda is covert in nature in that its aims, identity, significance, and sources are hidden.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ Black propaganda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I should have, given the audience, taken better care not to use professional jargon.

Sincerely,
R


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 10, 2013)

The documentary Roadmap To Apartheid shows practices in South Africa and Palestine side by side and illustrates how similar Apartheid was in these two different places. The issue with BDS is the Apartheid it is a response to, not attacking Israel. Yes, it is a nonviolent response to Occupation and Apartheid and human rights abuses, a tool for human beings of conscience in the global community all over the world to use when intl law seems incapable of unrighting an Injustice of a colossal magnitude in our world. . And  I find the reference to Black Propaganda in context with this discussion of BDD racist, as well. This is nothing to do with black propaganda.


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## patrickcaturday (Jun 10, 2013)

> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...




*Hoss don't you think it is racist for you to say that one group of blacks should take care of another group of blacks just because of the color of their skins.  I don't know but it sure sounds racist to me.  Also you were the one who a while back was saying that when Americans give they do so without regard to race religion or ethnicity, so you are  not only racist but hypocritical also.  As for the BDS movement I intend with my meger resources to support it to the fullest !!!*


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## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 10, 2013)

patrickcaturday said:


> > Hossfly said:
> >
> >
> > > Sorry to take so long in answering you, Georgie Boy.  Instead of sitting in a one-room apartment, I was out with some old buddies having a good time.  It's really fun to actually have conversations with real human beings in person.  Try it some time.  Meanwhile, all citizens of Israel have the right to vote.  Those living in the territories are not citizens of Israel, and they can vote in their own elections,  I have a great idea.  Why don't you take a bus down to Watts or Compton and ask your friends to contribute something to their brethren in Africa to make the lives of these Africans in need more comfortable since you seem so concerned about people?
> ...



People take care of their own.  Nothing racist about that.  I have heard black ppl call other black ppl "brother" or "sister".


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## toastman (Jun 10, 2013)

patrick, I have to questions for you:
Define Racism
and
Where is there any racism in Hossly's post . I asked the same questions to Georgie Boy and Seal but they ran away like usual


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## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 10, 2013)

patrickcaturday said:


> > Hossfly said:
> >
> >
> > > Sorry to take so long in answering you, Georgie Boy.  Instead of sitting in a one-room apartment, I was out with some old buddies having a good time.  It's really fun to actually have conversations with real human beings in person.  Try it some time.  Meanwhile, all citizens of Israel have the right to vote.  Those living in the territories are not citizens of Israel, and they can vote in their own elections,  I have a great idea.  Why don't you take a bus down to Watts or Compton and ask your friends to contribute something to their brethren in Africa to make the lives of these Africans in need more comfortable since you seem so concerned about people?
> ...



Wouldn't want you to waste your meager resources, Patrick, in a futile cause.  Israel is a rich country.


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## sealadaigh (Jun 10, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> reabhloideach,  _et al,_
> 
> I had not thought your vocabulary was that limited.
> 
> ...



everybody has a limited vocabulary. mine is not especially limited.

i was taught that the purpose of speaking and writing was to communicate effectively to an audience. i try to avoid using the esoteric and haughty jargon that seems to tumble so easily off the tongues of stuffed shirts.

i hope it is not beneath your position to try to understand how "Black Propaganda" could be misunderstood by common folk, especially on a thread that begins with a letter by alice walker to alicia keyes imploring her to cancel her concert due to the racist policies and practices of israel and then digressing into a discussion where several racist comment were made.

is misa le meas,
sealadaigh


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## sealadaigh (Jun 10, 2013)

toastman said:


> patrick, I have to questions for you:
> Define Racism
> and
> Where is there any racism in Hossly's post . I asked the same questions to Georgie Boy and Seal but they ran away like usual



i didn't run away. i ignored you.

i think racism is favouring or disfavouring a person or group in part or in whole by the racial character of that person or group, such as asking someone to solicit funds  specifically from african americans, and those living in poor neighbourhoods no less, to donate to "their brethren in africa".

i am happy that some of the funds i donate to my charity goes to funding my bretheren in africa and palestine and, if need be, israel.

i think alice walker, who wrote the letter that begins this thread, would feel the same way about donating to those based upon their need and not based upon those in need being of the same race as she.


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## patrickcaturday (Jun 10, 2013)

> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > patrick, I have to questions for you:
> ...




*In this case I would define racism as assuming that only one race should take care of another race because they are the same race.  Say there was a charity drive where only whites were urged to contribute soley because all of the proceeds were going to whites. Another facet of this racism is when a person of a different race urges the people of the first race to contribute without lifting a finger himself.*


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## patrickcaturday (Jun 10, 2013)

> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > patrickcaturday said:
> ...




*You are right Israel is a* *FUTILE CAUSE.*


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## RoccoR (Jun 10, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn,  _et al,_

Except for "intent."



SherriMunnerlyn said:


> The documentary Roadmap To Apartheid shows practices in South Africa and Palestine side by side and illustrates how similar Apartheid was in these two different places. The issue with BDS is the Apartheid it is a response to, not attacking Israel.


*(COMMENT)*

The intent of sequestering _(seclude, remove, or separate)_ and quarantining _(separate and restrict the movement of)_ the Hostile Arab/Palestinian (HoAP) from Israel is to protect the the general non-combatant population, sovereignty and integrity of Israel.  It doesn't have a racist component.  The threat is the basis of the action.

Does anyone really believe that the Palestinian doesn't pose a legitimate and unnecessary threat?



SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Yes, it is a nonviolent response to Occupation and Apartheid and human rights abuses, a tool for human beings of conscience in the global community all over the world to use when intl law seems incapable of unrighting an Injustice of a colossal magnitude in our world.


*(COMMENT)*

If you define "Apartheid as an "institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime;" then we have to disagree.

Again, the separation is justified in the probable cause through the established pattern of historically documented past criminal behavior and the threat the HoAP represents, has demonstrated, and has articulated in numerous way.

The reason the International Community and Justice System has not taken steps is that they know, the hands of the HoAP is not clean.  Even though the Israeli may be in technical violation of established norms, the fact of the matter is, the HoAP is a violent and potential threat, who also is in violation of establish norms. 



SherriMunnerlyn said:


> And  I find the reference to Black Propaganda in context with this discussion of BDD racist, as well. This is nothing to do with black propaganda.


*(COMMENT)*

I find it interesting that you don't challenge the truth of it, but merely that it sounds racist.

My apologies stand.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## Hossfly (Jun 10, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> BDS is an AntiRacist Movement. As far as I am concerned, all who oppose it are racists. What does Alice Walker stand for? To me, she is a human being who has devoted much of her life to speaking out against prejudice and racism. It makes perfect since that she has become a spokesperson for BDS. Sherri


Apparently there are others smart enough who can see right through this scheme.  As an aside, I wonder if any of the medical and technological inventions were manufactured in the West Bank, if those behind this BDS scheme would actually turn these inventions down so as not to be hypocritical.  I think it is apparent that those behind this scheme just close their eyes to all the murders which are occurring in the Middle East since the Jews are not involved.  

Apartheid: More Than Just a Word | HonestReporting


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## Hossfly (Jun 10, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> People, use your minds. BDS was a response to Apartheid in South Africa. What is Apartheid? It is a system based on prejudice and racism. Israeli Apartheid is likewise a system based on prejudice and racism. BDS opposes Israeli Apartheid and prejudice and racism. It logically follows that supporting BDS is opposing racism and opposing BDS is supporting racism.


Yes, people use your minds and realize that those who actually experienced apartheid in South Africa and saw what is going on in Israel claim there is no apartheid there.  Meanwhile, those who are pushing this BDS movement completely close their eyes to the lack of religious freedoms in Muslim countries where people are harassed and murdered for their beliefs and their houses of worship destroyed.  I imagine since the Jews are not involved in this, it isn't important to worry what is happening to these innocent people, and it certainly isn't worth the time by these pushers of the BDS movement to go on different forums to condemn what is happening..  By the way, none of us congratulated the new Miss Israel, an Ethiopian.  Can anyone see South Africa ever crowning a Black woman in the past?

I don't believe the Arabs are a race so  the term "racism" is a misnomer.  However, it does look like the Arabs themselves are certainly racists.

Racism in the Arab world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Hossfly (Jun 10, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> BDS is an AntiRacist Movement. As far as I am concerned, all who oppose it are racists. What does Alice Walker stand for? To me, she is a human being who has devoted much of her life to speaking out against prejudice and racism. It makes perfect since that she has become a spokesperson for BDS. Sherri


Well you are entitled to your opinion,  Frau Sherri.   There are many decent people who are opposed to what your fascist friends are doing in the name of religion.  Civilized people do not like to see innocent people murdered because of their religious beliefs and would like to see people have the freedom of practicing their religious beliefs in peace.  It's a shame that you and the rests of those pushing this boycott movement can't start something to show how your friends treat those of different religions.


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## Kondor3 (Jun 10, 2013)

*BDS?*


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## sealadaigh (Jun 10, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> > People, use your minds. BDS was a response to Apartheid in South Africa. What is Apartheid? It is a system based on prejudice and racism. Israeli Apartheid is likewise a system based on prejudice and racism. BDS opposes Israeli Apartheid and prejudice and racism. It logically follows that supporting BDS is opposing racism and opposing BDS is supporting racism.
> ...



both nelson mandela and desmond tutu, both south african nobel peace prize winners, have remarked on israeli being an apartheid state, as has mairead macGuire, another nobel peace prize winner,  who has expericed apartheid like conditions growing up is the six northeastern counties of ireland.

apartheid is an ill defined word.

i think i will go with them.


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## toastman (Jun 10, 2013)

patrickcaturday said:


> > toastman said:
> >
> >
> > > patrick, I have to questions for you:
> ...



Wow, I couldn't disagree more. Is there a website or article or something on the internet that shares the same definition as you or at least a similar one ??


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## sealadaigh (Jun 10, 2013)

toastman said:


> patrickcaturday said:
> 
> 
> > *In this case I would define racism as assuming that only one race should take care of another race because they are the same race.  Say there was a charity drive where only whites were urged to contribute soley because all of the proceeds were going to whites. Another facet of this racism is when a person of a different race urges the people of the first race to contribute without lifting a finger himself.*
> ...



it is an example of the definition. you can look at what hoss said different ways, at least in the contect of a racist statement.

blacks should help their black brethern.

whites should hire their white brethern.

all the brothers stick together.

etc...

what hoss said was racist and particularly given the letter written by alice walker.


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## Sunshine (Jun 10, 2013)

Alice Walker has bitten off more than she can chew.


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## MHunterB (Jun 10, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> SherriMunnerlyn,   _et al,_
> 
> I don't see it this way at all.
> 
> ...



This remains the single most worthwhile and accurate post on this thread.

As usual, Rocco nails it   What he's stated is that BDS is using scurrilous negative techniques to continue to vilify and demonize ALL Israeli society and ANY Israeli supporters.    

This can be seen most clearly in the post Rocco responded to above, which bluntly insists that whoever doesn't agree with the poster's view is a racist.  That kind of rhetorical grandstanding is useless and worthless:  is any adult going to be influenced by the condemnation of some single individual on a chat board?   And what kind of person would be so arrogant as to imagine their condemnation could mean something to others?

Further, it's basically an 'emotional' argument.  Not only do emotions have no truth value (look it up) - but emotion is far from the best tool we humans have for problem-solving.  

Regardless of who one 'likes' on here :  there WAS some merit to  suggesting to Georgie that he go out into the community and actually DO something to alleviate the suffering he professes to be so distressed by.

Emotion can be a powerful motivator - but unless people go out and DO something as a result, it's just as dead as 'faith without works'.   And the 'doing' is best if it's a positive.  Me, I 'do' Hadassah : ))  But perhaps others would prefer 'Heifer International' or some other positive project.


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## Coyote (Jun 10, 2013)

*Closed for Moderator Review*


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## Coyote (Jun 10, 2013)

*This thread has once again been cleaned - stick to the topic.

If you have drama with other posters take it to the Flame Zone.

As a reminder: the topic is not the personal attributes or perceived beliefs of other members here.*


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## Hossfly (Jun 10, 2013)

reabhloideach said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > SherriMunnerlyn said:
> ...


Of course you can go with whomever you want to when it comes to this subject of apartheid.  Naturally, you will have no problem with others going along with people whose views differ from Tutu, etc.  I'll go with the Rev. Heddings who as a young Methodist pastor in South Africa fought apartheid and now by actually living in Israel says there is no apartheid and who has said he would confront Tutu over this if they were face to face.  I also will go with this man who was a member in the South African parliament.  By the way, Seal, no comment from you about racism in the Arab world.  I would think that Mandela and Tutu would concern themselves with this.  Have you any information as to when and whether they have ever spoken about this?  It would certainly seem strange to many people that they only concern themselves with Israel.

MUST SEE!!! South African Member of Parliament on Israeli Apartheid Charge | Israel Video Network


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## georgephillip (Jun 11, 2013)

"May 15, 2013 marks the 65th anniversary of the Palestinian Nakba, which resulted in the catastrophic expulsion of the over 750,000 Palestinians from their homes and land in 1948, and creation of the first batch of Palestinian Refugees. 

"Some three-quarters of the Palestinian Arab population or over 750,000 Palestinians were expelled by military assault or threat and over 400 Palestinian cities and towns were destroyed.

"The YWCA was one of the first NGOs (nongovernment organizations) to provide services for Palestinian refugees. Before UNRWA was established, the YWCA responded to the emergency needs of the population, and later created womens training centers and pre-schools in what is now the Aqabet Jaber Refugee Camp Center near Jericho. 

"In 1951 the YWCA of Jordan was formed with branches and centers in the refugee camps on both the East and West Bank of the River Jordan."

Past Due: Sixty Five Years and the Ongoing Nakba | BDSmovement.net

Isn't it interesting how many organizations committed to easing the day to day suffering of the victims of Israel's illegal occupation in Palestine support BDS?


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 11, 2013)

RoccoR said:
			
		

> The intent of sequestering (seclude, remove, or separate) and quarantining (separate and restrict the movement of) the Hostile Arab/Palestinian (HoAP) from Israel is to protect the the general non-combatant population, sovereignty and integrity of Israel.



Israel has to keep the Palestinians from returning to their homes because they are the wrong religion.


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## RoccoR (Jun 11, 2013)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

We have to agree to disagree.



P F Tinmore said:


> > The intent of sequestering (seclude, remove, or separate) and quarantining (separate and restrict the movement of) the Hostile Arab/Palestinian (HoAP) from Israel is to protect the the general non-combatant population, sovereignty and integrity of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has to keep the Palestinians from returning to their homes because they are the wrong religion.


*(COMMENT)*

While there is many an argument that can be made concerning the relative merits of the Muslim's Islamic following, and the impact it has had on humanity, and has today ... that is certainly no the reason or basis of the sequestering or quarantine.

The fact of the matter is that the Palestine has pledged to dismantle the Jewish State.  The Palestinian not only make the pledge _(establishing intent)_, but have taken actions to further that intent _(terrorist attacks, hijackings, rocket launchings, assaults on the unarmed, etc)_ and have installed a government which has the continuation of the effort to destroy Israel embedded in its doctrine _(Hamas Charter)_.

The use of the "race card" in the propaganda effort is only the latest effort to further stretch the "Apartheid" mantra to deflect the light off the fact that Palestinians celebrate martyrdom, teach the ethics of the suicide bomber to their children, and encourage the use of force to settle disputes.  They are the poster board example of the corrupt culture that is Palestinian dream.

The Palestinian represents a danger to regional peace and extends the face of a failed culture that has not contributed a single step towards any human development.

No, it is not at all about race, or religion.  The separation is based on the danger they represent.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 11, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> We have to agree to disagree.
> 
> ...





> While there is many an argument that can be made concerning the relative merits of the Muslim's Islamic following,...



Baloney, Israel treats Muslims and Christians equally because they are equally not Jews.



> The Palestinian represents a danger to regional peace ...



Baloney, Palestine poses no threat to any of its neighbors.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 11, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> We have to agree to disagree.
> 
> ...



Prejudice and racism of the chosen people has become very lethal/deadly and harmful to Palestine, to the land and its peoples, and is certainly a very ugly thing. Walls that divide are an illustration and classic symbol of it. Nothing pretty or grand or redeeming in and about any of it. I see primarily Desperation in all these attempts to justify the unlawful Separation Wall and Apartheid and Occupation.  I expect the Nazis engaged in the very same such thinking when they tried to preserve their own perceived people and race and built up the very same racist walls to imprison and divide and tried to justify their actions to themselves and the world. And it is not just a phenomenon for Europe or the Middle East, this ugly racism and prejudice behind such atrocities as Apartheid and  Separation of the races. We all can look at our own History of Slavery and Segregation. And we see how nonviolence was used effectively in The Civil Rights Movement. So, BDS is a proven and effective and moral method to respond to Historical atrocities like Apartheid and Occupation in Palestine. Sherri


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 11, 2013)

"UPDATED: A couple dozen fervent pro-Israel activists gathered outside the 92nd Street Y on Thursday night to protest an appearance there by the Pulitzer Prize-winning author Alice Walker. Some of the demonstrators labelled her an &#8220;anti-Semite," lamenting that she'd been invited to a vaunted Jewish institution on Manhattan's Upper East Side.Jewish institutions like the 92nd Street Y are increasingly coming under harsh pressure&#8212;and, sometimes, being protested&#8212;for inviting forceful critics of Israel to speak. Walker, best known for her novel*The Color Purple*and afrequent*guest*of the 92nd Street Y, considers Israel's occupation of Palestinians "apartheid," and advocates for a near total boycott of the Jewish State. In an*open letter this week, Walker invited the R&B singer Alicia Keys to join the cultural boycott of Israel and cancel an upcoming Tel Aviv concert. Last year, Walker*declined to have her book translated into Hebrew by an Israeli publisher, citing her work with the*Russell Tribunal on Palestine.Both the apartheid charge and supporting tBoth the apartheid charge and supporting the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement against Israel virtually guarantee*denunciation by the right-wing pro-Israel community as anti-Semitic. In*Commentary, Jonathan Tobin*suggested that perhaps even the 92nd Street Y was anti-Semitic*for hosting a BDS-backer. "While some rightly label those who advocate discrimination against Israel and its people as anti-Semitism, many refuse to draw the logical conclusion about those who back the BDS (boycott, divest and sanctions against Israel) movement and continue to welcome them into the community and even honor them," he wrote. "The question is, how is it possible that a venerable Jewish institution like the 92nd Street Y would choose to welcome someone who advocates bias against Jews?'"   BDS-Backer Alice Walker Protested At Jewish Institution - The Daily Beast.  BDS is dividing the Jewish community in the US.. Wow, here we see venerable American Jewish groups called Anti Semitic.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 11, 2013)

I just read somewhere yesterday the Petition calling for Alicia Keyes to boycott Israel has had more signers then the concert has had tickets sold.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 11, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwRLyxvPC7Y&feature=youtube_gdata_player I just read somewhere yesterday the Petition calling for Alicia Keyes to boycott Israel has had more signers then the concert has had tickets sold.



Sign the petition:*https://www.change.org/      From the video:  "People around the world are calling on Alicia Keys to join figures such as Archbishop Desmond Tutu, Alice Walker and Roger Waters who are boycotting Israel's human rights abuses in the Occupied Palestinian Territories.In the spirit of the South African movement that helped end Apartheid, the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement (BDS) was called for by Palestinian civil society in 2005.This film is inspired by the Palestinian women who everyday nonviolently resist the illegal occupation of their land."


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## Sunshine (Jun 11, 2013)

Several years ago, I was at a speech by a local Jew.  One thing he said was that the blacks came to them for help with their 'plight' as former slaves.  He said the Jews told the blacks to 'never let it die.'  That is exactly what is playing out in this country today even though there have been no slaves for over 100 years.  They are holding every 'white' person at fault for something that occurred that long ago.  They won't let it die, and they are so combative in their daily lives, that there is no way for them to progress.  

I find, on the one had it is quite ironic that Alice Walker has turned on the Jews, although it is not surprising because Jews are a lot smarter making it through with a history of several documented genocide attempts.  On the other hand, I am not surprised by the stupidity.

And everyone should read The Color Purple.  There are hidden meanings in it and if you have not caught them, then you have missed the whole point of the book.  You see it played out on this and other forums pretty much every day.


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## Kondor3 (Jun 11, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> "..._Baloney, Palestine poses no threat to any of its neighbors._"


Israel is a neighbor of the Palestinians, and the Palestinians pose a threat to Israel; consequently, Palestinians pose a threat to at least one of their neighbors; Q.E.D.


----------



## Kondor3 (Jun 11, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwRLyxvPC7Y&feature=youtube_gdata_player I just read somewhere yesterday the Petition calling for Alicia Keyes to boycott Israel has had more signers then the concert has had tickets sold.
> ...


Or, alternatively, the Palestinians and their Arab-Muslim neighbor-countries have sworn to drown the Jews of Israel in the Mediterranean Sea, and have tried, and failed, repeatedly, and are now reaping what they have sown.

Nazi-ism is still alive and well with the Palestinians, as may be witnessed by looking at both historical and current photographs of their meetings and and celebrations and public propaganda rallies.

*Support that? Never.*

I don't care _how_ many Do-Gooder I-Want-to-Buy-the-World-a-Coke Hold-Hands-Around-the-Campfire-and-Sing-Kumbya World-Without-Borders impractical types show up to the party.

*Support that? Never.*


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## sealadaigh (Jun 11, 2013)

Kondor3 said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> > SherriMunnerlyn said:
> ...




israel's neo-nazis are, or were, largely jewish immigrants from russia. i don't know if israel has eliminated thaat problem yet.

i haven't seen or heard of many public rallies etc recently...or at all other than husseini, and he was a dismal failure at rallying the palestinians and arabs around hitler.

"Israel Neo-Nazism activity is not common or widespread in Israel, and the few activities reported have all been the work of extremists, who were punished severely. One notable case is that of Patrol 36, a cell in Petah Tikva made up of eight teenage immigrants from the former Soviet Union who had been attacking foreign workers and homosexuals, and vandalizing synagogues with Nazi images. These neo-Nazis were reported to have operated in cities across Israel, and have been described as being influenced by the rise of neo-Nazism in Europe. Widely publicized arrests have led to a call to reform the Law of Return to permit the revocation of Israeli citizenship for &#8211; and the subsequent deportation of &#8211; neo-Nazis."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism#Israel

can't seem to get over those untruths you spout, can you?


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## Kondor3 (Jun 11, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> "..._Baloney, Israel treats Muslims and Christians equally_..."


There is a Grand Mosque in the Holy City of Rome...

Is there a Grand Cathedral in the Holy City of Mecca?

Those silly, silly Infidel Christians... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





*When a Christian in Mecca or Medinah can celebrate his-or-her religion openly and without fear like a Muslim can in Rome or London or New York or Chicago or Los Angeles, then, come back and talk to us about Islam treating other religions equally...*

Meanwhile, a little counter-pointing humor designed by another non-Muslim, who didn't buy into that spiel either...


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## toastman (Jun 11, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...



How do they treat Christians and Muslims ?? Please provide examples

And to say the Palestinians don't pose a threat is BALONEY


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## Sunshine (Jun 11, 2013)

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > "..._Baloney, Israel treats Muslims and Christians equally_..."
> ...



I believe there are several mosques in Israel.


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## Kondor3 (Jun 11, 2013)

Sunshine said:


> "..._I believe there are several mosques in Israel._"


Correct... there are a fairly large number of mosques scattered throughout Israeli-controlled territory...

Not to mention several that exist in the Holy City of Jerusalem... one of them built right on top of the ruins of the Temple of Solomon... Judaism's holiest site... demonstrating just how respectful the Muslims were of the Jews far back into time... razing the ruins of their temple to the ground and building on top of it... and then rationalizing it with some bull$hit claim about their Founder getting an elevator to Paradise from that very same spot... how bloody convenient... how despicably disrespectful of the Muslims, to do something like that.

*Islam is respectful of other religions? Bull$hit. Pull the other one.*

What they preach, and what they do, are two entirely different things.


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 11, 2013)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...



Which of its neighbors have been threatened?


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## toastman (Jun 11, 2013)

Well launching rockets seems like a threat to me. Of course we already know how you view them.


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 11, 2013)

toastman said:


> Well launching rockets seems like a threat to me. Of course we already know how you view them.



The Palestinians launch rockets at their neighbors?


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 11, 2013)

I had not heard of Palestinians launching weapons or rockets at their neighbors, I do recall Israel doing that in 2006 in Lebanon and this year in Syria.


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## toastman (Jun 11, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Well launching rockets seems like a threat to me. Of course we already know how you view them.
> ...



No, just Israel . Why do you always insist on playing stupid ???


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## toastman (Jun 11, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> I had not heard of Palestinians launching weapons or rockets at their neighbors, I do recall Israel doing that in 2006 in Lebanon and this year in Syria.



W are talking about Palestinians launching rockets into Israel, not it's neighbors


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 11, 2013)

toastman said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> > I had not heard of Palestinians launching weapons or rockets at their neighbors, I do recall Israel doing that in 2006 in Lebanon and this year in Syria.
> ...


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 11, 2013)

toastman,  _et al,_

This is an extension of the argument that the entire State of Israel is an Occupation of Palestine.



P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > SherriMunnerlyn said:
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

They selectively read the International Law to justify the attacks.  They disregard the part where it states that you cannot attack a member state of the UN.

Hence, the need to quarantine the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 11, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> toastman,  _et al,_
> 
> This is an extension of the argument that the entire State of Israel is an Occupation of Palestine.
> 
> ...



Interesting, The Palestinians have been "attacking Israel" since it joined the UN.

Why is it that nobody has taken them to court?


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## toastman (Jun 11, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > toastman,  _et al,_
> ...



What would that accomplish ?


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## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 11, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Actually, besides the horrific things they have done to Israel, the PLO tried to take over Jordan in 1970, and participated in the Civil War in Lebanon.  I have read that Palestinians played soccer with Christian skulls in Lebanon.


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## RoccoR (Jun 11, 2013)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

You go to court to seek restitution.



toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

Yes, what could you possibly get out of the Palestinian?  They can't even make payroll by themselves.

They would have to give-up territory; as did the Spanish did at the conclusion of the Spanish-American War.  We got the Philippines, Puerto Rico and Guam _(WOW, what a deal!)_.  Who wants the Gaza Strip?  It is next to worthless, especially with the people.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 11, 2013)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



My source for the "skulls" thing is Rebbetzin Esther Jungreis.  I'll try to find the article.


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 11, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> You go to court to seek restitution.
> 
> ...



We will see what happens if this war ever concludes.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 12, 2013)

Activists deliver petition to Alicia Keys Brooklyn charity asking her to cancel Israel show

by*US Campaign for the Academic & Cultural Boycott of Israel*on June 11, 2013A delegation of Palestinian-Americans, representing coalitions of over 500 US organizations, delivered*a petition*today*signed*by over 12,000 people to*the New York City office of Alicia Keys nonprofit fighting HIV/AIDS,*Keep a Child Alive, calling on Keys to cancel her July 4th concert in Israel. *The petition asked Keys to stand on the side of justice and cancel her gig in Tel Aviv, Israel, and to join us now in the cultural boycott of Israel, and help stop entertaining apartheid. The petitions 12,000+*plus signers outnumber the audience expected to attend her Tel Aviv show.The delegation met with staff at the organization, who explained that they were aware of the ongoing efforts to encourage Keys cancellation. Delegates passed along materials that included details of the global boycott campaign and reports from rights organizations documenting Israels violation of Palestinian children rights, which they confirmed Keep a Child Alives Chief Executive Officer, Peter Twyman, received. Keys recently*told the New York Times*that she planned to go ahead with the show, despite letters calling on her to cancel from the*Palestinian Campaign for the Academic Cultural Boycott of Israel, US novelist*Alice Walker,*Roger Waters*of Pink Floyd, and the Israeli group,*Boycott! Supporting the Palestinian BDS call from Within."   The article also mentions*an opinion piece in NBCs *The Grio*entitled Alicia Keys Planned Israel Concert Inspires Backlash from Black Peers.         Activists deliver petition to Alicia Keys? Brooklyn charity asking her to cancel Israel show | Mondoweiss


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 12, 2013)

BDS is a Movement of people of conscience worldwide to those who benefit from Israels Occupation to open their eyes to its abuses and to act on that knowledge and to personally have a conscience.  If Alicia Keyes plays this concert in Israel, she shows the world who she is, one who has no conscience and one whose music should be thrown in the trash. Sherri


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## HistoryBefore67 (Jun 12, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> BDS is a Movement of people of conscience worldwide to those who benefit from Israels Occupation to open their eyes to its abuses and to act on that knowledge and to personally have a conscience.  If Alicia Keyes plays this concert in Israel, she shows the world who she is, one who has no conscience and one whose music should be thrown in the trash. Sherri



If you want to know what the BDS is, delete the D.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 12, 2013)

HistoryBefore67 said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> > BDS is a Movement of people of conscience worldwide to those who benefit from Israels Occupation to open their eyes to its abuses and to act on that knowledge and to personally have a conscience.  If Alicia Keyes plays this concert in Israel, she shows the world who she is, one who has no conscience and one whose music should be thrown in the trash. Sherri
> ...



WHAT that comment tells me is who you are, that and nothing else. We have a conscience or we choose to not have one. Thank God we  still live in a world where people have a conscience and embrace BDS.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 12, 2013)

"This week, Pulitzer Prize-winning author and social justice activist*Alice Walker*wrote an*open letter to Keys, urging her not to cross the international picket line, and to learn more about Israel's policies against Palestinians.*The letter reads:** * Dear Alicia Keys,** * I have learned today that you are due to perform in Israel very soon. We have never met, though I believe we are mutually respectful of each other's path and work. It would grieve me to know you are putting yourself in danger (soul danger) by performing in an apartheid country that is being boycotted by many global conscious artists.** * You were not born when we, your elders who love you, boycotted institutions in the US South to end an American apartheid less lethal than Israel's against the Palestinian people. Google Montgomery Bus Boycott, if you don't know about this civil rights history already. We changed our country fundamentally, and the various boycotts of Israeli institutions and products will do the same there. It is our only nonviolent option and, as we learned from our own struggle in America, nonviolence is the only path to a peaceful future."      Alice Walker Open Letter to Alicia Keys - Don't Perform in Israel; Roger Waters Also Appeals to Keys | Portside


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## HistoryBefore67 (Jun 12, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> HistoryBefore67 said:
> 
> 
> > SherriMunnerlyn said:
> ...



Thank God we live in a world in which thinly-veiled efforts to de-legitimize and, ultimately, destroy Israel are recognized as such and rejected by the vast majority of people.

P.S. - You do get that many of the countries who sign off on each UN Israel-bashing Resolution of the Week also maintain strong economic ties to Israel because they recognize the benefit of maintaining a connection to Israel's advances in technology, agriculture, medicine, etc., right?


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 12, 2013)

Christian Organizations Supporting Palestine | BDS Index: A Guide to Non-Violent actions in Support of Peace in Palestine.  BDS, a nonviolent movement with its roots in Christianity and Christian groups worldwide following the teachings of Jesus Christ and supporting it, Christians like Alice Walker. Now, this is beautiful to behold. So much nicer when we have such positive movements like BDS to focus on and watch and behold and meditate on and talk about. I can just ignore and block out all the hate and negativity around me. Sherri


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## HistoryBefore67 (Jun 12, 2013)




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## HistoryBefore67 (Jun 12, 2013)




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## Kondor3 (Jun 12, 2013)

BDS: the last gasp and last desperate gambit of an untrustworthy, uncompromising, blood-stained bunch who could have negotiated a middle-ground anywhere up-and-down the line in the first couple of decades of this conflict, but who have long-since lost any claim to moral high ground, who have lost whatever few poker chips they still had for use at the playing-table, and whose turf continues to shrink with each passing hour. I mean... after all... 65 years in camps and refugee-slums? 65 years? Really? Go someplace else and re-learn the meaning of life and happiness. It's over. And this BDS business is a sand-flea that's been around for eight years already and gone nowhere - and which continues to go nowhere... fast... it's a flea.


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## Hossfly (Jun 12, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> BDS is a Movement of people of conscience worldwide to those who benefit from Israels Occupation to open their eyes to its abuses and to act on that knowledge and to personally have a conscience.  If Alicia Keyes plays this concert in Israel, she shows the world who she is, one who has no conscience and one whose music should be thrown in the trash. Sherri


If the people involved in this BDS nonsense are such "people of conscience," why are they not protesting what is happening in Muslim countries where non Muslims and even Muslims of different sects are harassed and/or murdered and their houses of worship destroyed.  One would think that "people of conscience" would be right on top of things like this.  However, like you, they probably don't care what is happening to innocent others elsewhere since the Jews are not involved.  Maybe you can arrange for Alicia Keys to sing in Nigeria where your friends are right now busily slitting the throats of Christians.  Her singing might cheer these people up after what has happened to them and is still happening.  By the way, Frau Sherri, do you ever take any time out from your busy day of bashing Israel to condemn what is happening to your Christian brethren in the countries of your friends?


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 12, 2013)




----------



## Kondor3 (Jun 12, 2013)

A long-time advocate for the Palestinians speaks out?

Golly-gosh gee-whiz, Emmy Lou, I wonder whatever-in-the-world will she say about the condition of the Palestinians?

I wonder if she also has anything to say about the Arab-Muslim neighbor-states of the Palestinians, not wanting them, and not supporting them?

Perhaps the Palestinians would be happier living elsewhere.

I suggest that they take the hint after 65 years, and begin packing, and moving...


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## HistoryBefore67 (Jun 12, 2013)

BDS is complete hypocricy.   It singles out Israel and ignores every nation in the world where real human rights abuses are actually occurring. 

Thankfully, it is a marginal movement that has failed to impact Israel in any significant way.  Sure, there is an occasional "statement" by an Elvis Costello or Roger Waters, but artists such as Paul McCartney, Madonna, Macy Gray, Black Eyed Peas, Paul Simon, Elton John, Metallica, Rihanna and Lady Gaga have all rejected the BDS platform and performed in Israel.

So, go ahead, Sherri... keep spamming us with BDS nonsense.  Israel will be just fine despite your efforts.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 12, 2013)




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## HistoryBefore67 (Jun 12, 2013)




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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 12, 2013)

New Israeli plan calls for more intelligence gathering to disrupt BDS movement

Submitted by*Ben White*on Sat, 06/01/2013 - 08:31This week in Jerusalem, the Israeli foreign ministry*hosted the*fourth international conference of the Global Forum for Combating Anti-Semitism.Reproduced below is the Action Plan presented to delegates by the working group tasked with examining delegitimization and BDS. This is transcribed from slides shown to the conference, and the video can be viewed above.    New Israeli plan calls for more ?intelligence? gathering to disrupt BDS movement | The Electronic Intifada. We all can see how Israel does not take BDS seriously, lol!


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 12, 2013)

http://www.change.org/petitions/don...f-complicity-in-discrimination-and-oppression. Here is a Petition for people of conscience who support BDS to sign.


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## HistoryBefore67 (Jun 12, 2013)

I don't believe that a fly threatens my existence, but if it buzzes around me, I'll swat it anyway.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 12, 2013)

Flies have been around since the beginning of time, I would not be underestimating the value of any of Gods creations. BDS is a Movement inspired by the teachings of Jesus Christ Himself. I would not underestimate Jesus either.


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## HistoryBefore67 (Jun 12, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> http://www.change.org/petitions/don...f-complicity-in-discrimination-and-oppression. Here is a Petition for people of conscience who support BDS to sign.



I clicked the link and this came up:


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## HistoryBefore67 (Jun 12, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Flies have been around since the beginning of time, I would not be underestimating the value of any of Gods creations. BDS is a Movement inspired by the teachings of Jesus Christ Himself. I would not underestimate Jesus either.



Why should I?  He was a nice Jewish boy.


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## ForeverYoung436 (Jun 12, 2013)

HistoryBefore67 said:


> BDS is complete hypocricy.   It singles out Israel and ignores every nation in the world where real human rights abuses are actually occurring.
> 
> Thankfully, it is a marginal movement that has failed to impact Israel in any significant way.  Sure, there is an occasional "statement" by an Elvis Costello or Roger Waters, but artists such as Paul McCartney, Madonna, Macy Gray, Black Eyed Peas, Paul Simon, Elton John, Metallica, Rihanna and Lady Gaga have all rejected the BDS platform and performed in Israel.
> 
> So, go ahead, Sherri... keep spamming us with BDS nonsense.  Israel will be just fine despite your efforts.



Don't forget the Rolling Stones and Barbra Streisand.  (Although some people might disregard Streisand and Simon since they are Jewish, and Jewish hearts always align with Israel.)


----------



## toastman (Jun 12, 2013)

Jon Voight on Israel:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-YtYL6br_8]Jon Voight on Israel - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## HistoryBefore67 (Jun 12, 2013)

You could have a nice music festival with Jewish artists alone:

Paul Simon (or, even better, Simon and Garfunkel), Billy Joel, Kiss, the Beastie Boys, Lisa Loeb, Josh Radin, Susannah Hoffs (lead singer of The Bangles), The Ramones (sadly, no longer with us), Barbra Streisand, Bette Midler, David Lee Roth, Veruca Salt, Lucy Kaplansky, Paula Abdul, Bob Dylan, Jakob Dylan (The Wallflowers) and Pink.

Heck... I'd go to that show!


----------



## Hossfly (Jun 12, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Flies have been around since the beginning of time, I would not be underestimating the value of any of Gods creations. BDS is a Movement inspired by the teachings of Jesus Christ Himself. I would not underestimate Jesus either.


Cockroaches must have been around at the beginning of time too and they crawl out of the woodwork every now and then.  However, I can just imagine Jesus' reaction if he saw Frau Sherri's friends harassing and murdering his followers and destroying their churches.  When Frau Sherri thinks about Jesus (if she actually does), no doubt she closes her eyes to what happens to his followers.

U.S. Defends "Human Rights" of Persecutors of Christians :: Gatestone Institute


----------



## member (Jun 14, 2013)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> HistoryBefore67 said:
> 
> 
> > _*"BDS is complete hypocricy.   It singles out Israel and ignores every nation in the world where real human rights abuses are actually occurring. Thankfully, it is a marginal movement that has failed to impact Israel in any significant way.  Sure, there is an occasional "statement" by an Elvis Costello or Roger Waters, but artists such as Paul McCartney, Madonna, Macy Gray, Black Eyed Peas, Paul Simon, Elton John, Metallica", Rihanna and Lady Gaga have all rejected the BDS platform and performed in Israel.  So, go ahead, Sherri... keep spamming us with BDS nonsense.  Israel will be just fine despite your efforts."*_
> ...





​





*MUSIC LEGENDS*:

Paul McCartney 


Madonna
Paul Simon
Elton John
Elvis Costello
Metallica
Rolling Stones
Barbara Streisand
_*Roger Waters ?????*_

and the rest.........

Rihanna or beyonce  ***_I wont type what I REALLY think of them_.  Itll get pulled (if this, in itself doesnt get pulled).THEY will never even come close to being _legends_.(MUSICALLY) will never-ever hold a candle to people like:  Whitney Houston, Chaka Khan, Donna Summer, Gladys Knight, Tina Turnerforget it, the Black-women-Legend-list is way too long,
and shes (_they_) are WAaaaay on the bottom of it.  Sure they can hold a tune.But they have gorgeous figures..etc.  thats what really HELPS sell their 

 music, all their bumping and grinding(yeah, Madonna bumped and _grinded_.but her music is _completely different_ than the noise those 2 put out -_a.f.a.i.c_).

Lady Gaga:  

 Not a fan at all.  But I give her a giant A 

 for those costumes.  Very artsy/interesting/creative.  But shes another one (musically, not legend material ---_a.f.a.i.c_)..

Black-Eyed Peas: _oh please_..see Rihanna ***

Macy Gray:  I liked that song she did_whatever_..next.

_Oh, thats it_.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 14, 2013)

member said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > HistoryBefore67 said:
> ...



What's wrong with Black-Eyed Peas? Cool video.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwQZQygg3Lk]The Black Eyed Peas - The Time (Dirty Bit) - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## HistoryBefore67 (Jun 14, 2013)

Fill up my cup!
Mazel tov!


----------



## MHunterB (Jun 14, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> BDS is a Movement of people of conscience worldwide to those who benefit from Israels Occupation to open their eyes to its abuses and to act on that knowledge and to personally have a conscience.  If Alicia Keyes plays this concert in Israel, she shows the world who she is, one who has no conscience and one whose music should be thrown in the trash. Sherri



LMAO - so whoever doesn't knuckle under to your favorite band o' bullies 'has no conscience' and suddenly their music is 'trash'?   What a very bigoted POV that is!  It's also a quite blatant attempt to engage in emotional blackmail....

What's so ludicrous about that ploy is, it can only work with people who have any shred of respect for the 'feeewings' and opinions of the would-be blackmailer.

In this case, it's rather like Charlie Manson delivering a harangue on morality.........


----------



## georgephillip (Jun 16, 2013)

"The world is no stranger to Israel's litany of misdeeds against the Palestinian people. But the situation of Palestinians in the Occupied Territories is not the only arena in which Palestinians face daily oppression.

"Palestinian Arab citizens are a sizable minority in Israel who make up 20 percent of the country's population. They experience institutionalized discrimination in their daily lives much like the African-American community before and during the U.S. civil rights movement. But consistent, trustworthy information about the problems and specific concerns of this community is in short supply.

"Israeli Palestinians have been directly affected by such infamous initiatives as Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman's loyalty oath bill and home demolitions. The loyalty oath  not yet law but approved by Netanyahus cabinet  requires new, non-Jewish citizens to pledge allegiance to Israel as a Jewish and democratic state. 

"This oath would adversely affect Palestinian citizens who are more likely to marry non-Jewish foreign nationals and would feel alienated by their spouses pledging allegiance to Israel as a Jewish state. Home demolitions, *meanwhile, have made clear the government's policy to Judaize the country by forcibly evicting Arab residents and destroying their homes, from the Naqab to East Jerusalem.*"

Israel's Shrinking Minority Rights - IPS


----------



## Kondor3 (Jun 16, 2013)

This sand-flea (BDS) has been on its feet since 2005 and has accomplished precisely zero.

Goat $hit.

I'm sure the Israelis are just a-shakin' in their booties... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Still, it's fun to watch Palestinian propagandists and sympathizers exercise their imaginations about this wonder-of-wonders called BDS...


----------



## Hossfly (Jun 16, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> "The world is no stranger to Israel's litany of misdeeds against the Palestinian people. But the situation of Palestinians in the Occupied Territories is not the only arena in which Palestinians face daily oppression.
> 
> "Palestinian Arab citizens are a sizable minority in Israel who make up 20 percent of the country's population. They experience institutionalized discrimination in their daily lives much like the African-American community before and during the U.S. civil rights movement. But consistent, trustworthy information about the problems and specific concerns of this community is in short supply.
> 
> ...


Well, Georgie Boy, everyone is entitled to his own opinion even if he continuously  overlooks just what is going on in Muslim countries when it comes to the non Muslims and Muslims of different sects (including their murders for religious beliefs)..

http://www.jewishjournal.com/david_suissa/article/lies_apartheid_and_bs


----------



## georgephillip (Jun 16, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > "The world is no stranger to Israel's litany of misdeeds against the Palestinian people. But the situation of Palestinians in the Occupied Territories is not the only arena in which Palestinians face daily oppression.
> ...


Maybe we should look for a way to verify this claim?

"One name that comes to mind is Omar Barghouti, founder of the boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) movement, who is one of the leaders of the growing campaign to boycott Israeli universities.

"When Barghouti agitates against anyone who has anything to do with Israeli academia, he tells them they are collaborating with a 'racist and apartheid regime.' 

"What he doesn&#8217;t say is that he himself doesn&#8217;t boycott Israeli academia, since he is studying for a doctorate at Tel Aviv University."

http://www.jewishjournal.com/david_suissa/article/lies_apartheid_and_bs

If the claim is true, Barghouti is a hypocrite, but that doesn't mean Israel isn't a Jewish State.


----------



## Hossfly (Jun 16, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


It's a shame that you worry your little head over this, Georgie Boy, when so much is going on in Muslim countries.   I know the Jews aren't involved, but give it a try to be concerned about what is happening to innocent people who are actually murdered for their religious beliefs.  Meanwhile, perhaps you can get some synagogue in your general area to invite this Somali to speak, and you can sit and listen also.  Didn't they just open up one in the Pico Union area?

Somali refugee counters ?apartheid? efforts | NJJN


----------



## member (Jun 16, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> *"I have no intention of responding to posters who insultingly and  continuously address me as Frau Sherri. If posters cannot post with a bit of basic courtesy, they do not deserve a response to their posts. Im not German or a Frau."*





 are you sure ? 






...i know it's not neighborly, but why don't you put 

 Hoss 

 _on ignore_ ?  isn't there a way to do that, so you don't have to 

 be subjected...?


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 17, 2013)

Well, Alicia Keys is showing herself to be a person who lacks morality. BDS separates those with morality from those deficient in morality. Some people, like Alice Walker, try to make a positive difference in our world with their lives and some just embrace immorality and violence in our societies and cultures. That is what a movie I just watched was all about, called Cloud Atlas.  Our lives matter, the stands we take matters, individual choices and actions matter. I cannot get those twin babies born joined together in Hebron out of my mind, I check for news about them every day. I show their photos and tell their stories to those around me. I think about the positive impact their lives have made in our world, that I simply can see bits and pieces of right now. We do see through a glass darkly. Sherri


----------



## HistoryBefore67 (Jun 17, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Well, Alicia Keys is showing herself to be a person who lacks morality. BDS separates those with morality from those deficient in morality. Some people, like Alice Walker, try to make a positive difference in our world with their lives and some just embrace immorality and violence in our societies and cultures. That is what a movie I just watched was all about, called Cloud Atlas.  Our lives matter, the stands we take matters, individual choices and actions matter. I cannot get those twin babies born joined together in Hebron out of my mind, I check for news about them every day. I show their photos and tell their stories to those around me. I think about the positive impact their lives have made in our world, that I simply can see bits and pieces of right now. We do see through a glass darkly. Sherri



Am I the only one who hears cheesey violin music when reading Sherrilein's posts?


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 17, 2013)

.  Sometimes, I regret I missed living in certain past eras. Like The Civil Rights Movement era in the US. But I look at the Palestinian struggle for freedom and see I have an opportunity to be on the right side in another struggle against Injustice in our world. And embracing BDS is a way every person in our world today can take a positive stand against Occupation and Apartheid in Palestine.  I am Blessed to live in todays world and be a part of taking a stand against the Injustices in Palestine.  And to God is owed all the glory and praise. BDS, Jesus way, God's response to Injustice. Sherri


----------



## HistoryBefore67 (Jun 17, 2013)

This just in:

_*Jesus Rejects BDS*
Jesus Christ, in a statement released by his press agent, Tim Tebow, has denounced the BDS movement.  "We instruct all supporters of BDS to cease and desist from using Jesus' name to further their cause, Tebow stated.  "Jesus does not support the BDS or its hypocritical mission, and invites people from throughout the world to visit Israel."  In light of this announcement, Achbar Ben-Putzwagen, the leader of the New England Chapter of BDS, has called for a boycott of Patriot games this season._


----------



## Roudy (Jun 17, 2013)

HistoryBefore67 said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> > Well, Alicia Keys is showing herself to be a person who lacks morality. BDS separates those with morality from those deficient in morality. Some people, like Alice Walker, try to make a positive difference in our world with their lives and some just embrace immorality and violence in our societies and cultures. That is what a movie I just watched was all about, called Cloud Atlas.  Our lives matter, the stands we take matters, individual choices and actions matter. I cannot get those twin babies born joined together in Hebron out of my mind, I check for news about them every day. I show their photos and tell their stories to those around me. I think about the positive impact their lives have made in our world, that I simply can see bits and pieces of right now. We do see through a glass darkly. Sherri
> ...


I hear the background to a horror movie like Friday 13th or Exorcist.  Her posts are straight from bullshit propaganda sites like RT news or Press TV.


----------



## Roudy (Jun 17, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxLzkotQ5iA&feature=youtube_gdata_player.  Sometimes, I regret I missed living in certain past eras. Like The Civil Rights Movement era in the US. But I look at the Palestinian struggle for freedom and see I have an opportunity to be on the right side in another struggle against Injustice in our world. And embracing BDS is a way every person in our world today can take a positive stand against Occupation and Apartheid in Palestine.  I am Blessed to live in todays world and be a part of taking a stand against the Injustices in Palestine.  And to God is owed all the glory and praise. BDS, Jesus way, God's response to Injustice. Sherri


BDS aka Bowel Discharge Movement should close shop.  Israel just posted a record year of tourism and similar results occurred in many other industries.  Ha ha.

http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/May-2013-record-busting-month-for-Israeli-tourism-316745


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 17, 2013)

Palestinian Christians drafted The Kairos Palestine Document which sets forth their support of BDS.


----------



## toastman (Jun 17, 2013)

It was so nice and calm without you here Sherri. Go away


----------



## HistoryBefore67 (Jun 17, 2013)

Movie quotes for Sherri:

"You blew it up!  Spam you!  Spam you all to Hell!"
"Frankly my dear, I don't give a spam."
"We must ride to Spamalot!"
"What happened to the spam, Clarice."
"Well... I only have one thing to say about the war in Vietspam..."


----------



## toastman (Jun 17, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d9_jiG_jWs&feature=youtube_gdata_player Palestinian Christians drafted The Kairos Palestine Document which sets forth their support of BDS.



Sherri, BDS has been around for almost a decade and they've accomplished little to nothing. How does this make you feel ?


----------



## Kondor3 (Jun 17, 2013)

HistoryBefore67 said:


> Movie quotes for Sherri:
> 
> "You blew it up!  Spam you!  Spam you all to Hell!"
> "Frankly my dear, I don't give a spam."
> ...




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE]Monty Python - Spam - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Jun 17, 2013)

Kondor3 said:


> This sand-flea (BDS) has been on its feet since 2005 and has accomplished precisely zero.
> 
> Goat $hit.
> 
> ...


*Are you delu$ional, too?*

" Agrexco, Israels former largest exporter of agricultural produce, entered liquidation towards the end of 2011, following a campaign of blockades, demonstrations, lobbying of supermarkets and governments, popular boycotts and legal action in more than 13 countries across Europe. The campaign against the company was a major factor behind the lack of investors interest to salvage it."

BDS Victories | BDSmovement.net


----------



## toastman (Jun 17, 2013)

BDs reminds of me of Arabs. Even when they fail miserably, they claim victory hahahahahahahaha


----------



## Kondor3 (Jun 17, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > This sand-flea (BDS) has been on its feet since 2005 and has accomplished precisely zero.
> ...



==============================

*Why did Agrexco go bankrupt?*

*Shir Hever on the connections between the demise of a company that exports settlement produce and the international boycott and divestment campaign.
*
_By Shir Hever, JNews Blog - Friday, 7 October, 2011 - 12:52 - London, UK_

Agrexco is a well-known company founded by the state of Israel to help Israeli farmers export their goods to the rest of the world. The company became a symbol of the Israeli economy, and its brands, such as Carmel, became well known in many European cities.

Despite being responsible for about 60-70% of all Israel&#8217;s agricultural exports, the company recently went bankrupt. In June, financial irregularities were discovered in the company&#8217;s accounts. In September, an Israeli court ruled that the company is to go into liquidation. It is still possible that the company will be bought, although currently an Israeli company (Bickel Flowers) is offering a meager £7 million for a company whose value was estimated at £104 million in June 2009. Bickel Flowers&#8217; offer is yet to be approved by the court.

In today&#8217;s shaky global economy, another company collapsing is hardly a rare event. However, Agrexco, being Israel&#8217;s flagship exporter of agricultural goods, was not expected to run into trouble so fast. *Several explanations have been given for the company&#8217;s bankruptcy*. Journalists argued that the *company overestimated its growth potential and invested money in terminals and ships, counting on a steady increase in demand that never materialized*. The problem with this explanation is that it doesn&#8217;t explain what caused the sudden decline in demand for Agrexco&#8217;s goods, and why Agrexco&#8217;s management was not able to make adjustments in time.

Another explanation is that many *Israeli farmers abandoned Agrexco and took their business to its competitor*s. If that is so, why did the farmers choose to leave Agrexco when Agrexco was offering them various perks to stay with the company?

A third explanation for the company&#8217;s collapse is that the *Israeli government opted to allow it to happen*. This could partly stem from a neoliberal ideology that opposes the concept of state-owned companies, or from pressure by Agrexco&#8217;s competitors. Yet, this explanation does not shed light on why the company collapsed in the first place, and why the government spent 55 million NIS in an attempt to help the company in December 2010.

Indeed, these three explanations may hold some of the truth, but a fourth explanation has been largely ignored by the Israeli economic media &#8211; the fact that Agrexco has been the *target of an international boycott campaign*, in protest at its role in repressing Palestinians.

Agrexco has been chosen as a focus for protests around the world for three reasons. First, the company&#8217;s exploitation of Palestinian workers; second, the company&#8217;s marketing and selling of agricultural products from the settlements in the West Bank (and from Gaza until 2005); and third, the company&#8217;s policy of misinforming its customers, labeling all its products as &#8220;made in Israel&#8221; even if said products were produced in the West Bank by Palestinians or by settlers.

In 2004, UK activists chained themselves to an Agrexco warehouse and were arrested, but the charges against them were dropped because Agrexco did not wish to defend its actions in court. Groups of activists formed in cities in which Agrexco had concentrated operations (such as Montpellier, France) to protest the company&#8217;s activities and inform the public that the company was involved in criminal activity, exploitation and repression.

Naturally, the company never released any data about the loss of sales as a result of this boycott, not wishing to further bolster the activists&#8217; morale. However, at least some of the Israeli farmers who chose to leave the company must have realized that the company&#8217;s brands were no longer good for sales. Only the company&#8217;s German employees mentioned the boycott in their call to the Israeli government to bail the company out. Apart from Bickel Flowers, three companies expressed an interest in buying Agrexco: the Israeli Kislev, the Irish Total Produce and the Japanese Classic Japan. These companies received hundreds, possibly thousands, of letters from activists urging them not to buy the company, and eventually withdrew from their intention to buy it.

One company, Mehadrin, would have the most to gain from Agrexco&#8217;s demise. The privately-owned Israeli company is set to take Agrexco&#8217;s place as Israel&#8217;s biggest agricultural exporter. Mehadrin also sells agricultural products from the settlements in the West Bank. It also owns lands of destroyed Palestinian villages, given to it free of charge by the government in order to help conceal the ruins (PDF, Hebrew). With the fall of Agrexco, Mehadrin is now in danger of facing a boycott campaign too.

---------

_Shir Hever is an Israeli economist and commentator who researches the economic aspects of the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories.

This article may be reproduced on condition that JNews is cited as its source_

Why did Agrexco go bankrupt? | JNews

==============================

Ummmmm... George... there appears to be *more than one* school of thought on that.

And, I'd really consider laying-off the Kool-Aid on those BDS Propaganda _beat-their-own-drum-whether-it's-warranted-or-not_ websites...


----------



## Kondor3 (Jun 17, 2013)

Oh, and, George...

Don't look now...

But Agrexco is still alive and well, as is its Carmel brand...

Different principals and capital, quite possibly...

But business-as-usual, by the look of it...

And business is good, according to the performance stats they're displaying on their website...

Agrexco

As I said... that blasted BDS Kool-Aid will screw ya up every time...


----------



## georgephillip (Jun 17, 2013)

Kondor3 said:


> Oh, and, George...
> 
> Don't look now...
> 
> ...


*Live and Learn, Kondor:*

"The largest Co-operative in Europe, the Co-Operative Group in the UK, introduced a policy to end trade with companies that source products from Israel&#8217;s illegal settlements, following a determined campaign by Co-Op members. Campaigners are working to pressure other supermarkets to adopt a similarly comprehensive position.  Many supermarkets across Europe already claim not to sell produce from illegal settlements.

"- A sustained campaign against Ahava, the Israeli cosmetics company situated in an illegal Israeli colony, forced the company to close its flagship London store and retailers in the UK, Norway,Japan and Canada to announce boycotts of the company.

"Inspired by the integral role that Israeli academic institutions play in developing the knowledge and technology behind Israeli occupation, colonization and apartheid, and planning and justifying Israel&#8217;s worst crimes, academic boycott campaigns have spread to campuses across the world..."

BDS Victories | BDSmovement.net

I remember how long it took for BDS movements to bring South Africa to its White knees.
The Jewish State is swirling the same drain.


----------



## toastman (Jun 17, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, and, George...
> ...



Yes, we've been hearing that for quite long now. The situation is not even close to being similar to SOuth Africa, that is just part of the Arab propaganda campaign .


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 17, 2013)

Supporting Boycotts, Divestment and Sanctions Against Israel

Alice WalkerJun 07, 2010. "My heart is breaking; but I do not mind. For one thing, as soon as I wrote those words I was able to weep, which I had not been able to do since learning of the attack by armed Israeli commandos on defenseless peace activists carrying aid to Gaza who tried to fend them off using chairs and sticks. I am thankful to know what it means to be good; I know that the people of the Freedom Flotilla are/were, in some cases, some of the best people on earth. They have not stood silently by and watched the destruction of others, brutally, sustained, without offering themselves, weaponless except for their bodies, to the situation. I am thankful to have a long history of knowing people like this from my earliest years, beginning in my student days of marches and demonstrations: for peace, for non-separation among peoples, for justice for Women, for People of Color, for Cubans, for Animals, for Indians, and for Her, the planet."   Alice Walker: Supporting Boycotts, Divestment and Sanctions Against Israel. We choose each one of us how we respond to the Injustices of Apartheid and Occupation in Palestine. SILENCE in the face of Injustice is complicity with it, that is what Martin Luther King Jr wrote. And so much Truth is in those words and these words speak of all Injustices that man have witnessed from the beginning of time. Sherri


----------



## Kondor3 (Jun 17, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> "..."The largest Co-operative in Europe, the Co-Operative Group in the UK, introduced a policy to end trade with companies that source products from Israel&#8217;s illegal settlements..."



----------

From: by The Commentator on 25 July *2012* 16:14

In 2008, trade was suspended with various Israeli companies and *in April this year, controversy arose when the group announced it would &#8220;no longer [be] engaging with any supplier of produce known to be sourcing from Israeli settlements*&#8221;.

The organisation pays much attention to its &#8216;social responsibility&#8217; arm, under which &#8216;international development and human rights&#8217; plays a headline role, even though in 2009, the organisation missed or dropped 44 percent of its corporate targets in this area.

Co-Op group under fire for 'hypocritical' Israeli boycott - The Commentator

----------

Given that Agrexco went into Liquidation in *August 2011*...

Given that the Co-Op announced its boycott of produce-suppliers in *April 2012*...

( confirmed by the Jerusalem Post: UK food retailer?s Israel boycott could harm Palestinians )

...a full *8 months AFTER Agrexco went into Liquidation*...

...I'm having some difficulty in understanding just how the Co-Op's boycott was responsible for the (prematurely determined) death of Agrexco...

There's something not-quite-right about the timeline overlays... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Live and learn, indeed...


----------



## toastman (Jun 17, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Supporting Boycotts, Divestment and Sanctions Against Israel
> 
> Alice WalkerJun 07, 2010. "My heart is breaking; but I do not mind. For one thing, as soon as I wrote those words I was able to weep, which I had not been able to do since learning of the attack by armed Israeli commandos on defenseless peace activists carrying aid to Gaza who tried to fend them off using chairs and sticks. I am thankful to know what it means to be good; I know that the people of the Freedom Flotilla are/were, in some cases, some of the best people on earth. They have not stood silently by and watched the destruction of others, brutally, sustained, without offering themselves, weaponless except for their bodies, to the situation. I am thankful to have a long history of knowing people like this from my earliest years, beginning in my student days of marches and demonstrations: for peace, for non-separation among peoples, for justice for Women, for People of Color, for Cubans, for Animals, for Indians, and for Her, the planet."   Alice Walker: Supporting Boycotts, Divestment and Sanctions Against Israel. We choose each one of us how we respond to the Injustices of Apartheid and Occupation in Palestine. SILENCE in the face of Injustice is complicity with it, that is what Martin Luther King Jr wrote. And so much Truth is in those words and these words speak of all Injustices that man have witnessed from the beginning of time. Sherri



It was so nice and peaceful without you here Sherri. What can we do so you can extend your vacation time ?


----------



## Kondor3 (Jun 17, 2013)

Oh, and, by the way, the UK Cooperative Group is in deep shit, financially; small wonder, when they take sides with Losers and run their business into the ground... not to mention counter-boycott efforts being directed against their company.

Oh, and, another by-the-way... most of these so-called produce boycott spasms claim that they are not boycotting Israel, but only the produce coming from occupied-territories farmland.

There's an easy fix to that...

Use the so-called occupied-territories farmland for internal consumption...

And use the so-called unoccupied territories farmland for export...

Or just lie on the product-labeling...

Same difference....


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 18, 2013)

I loved reading and watching how child abusers and torturers G4S could not even hold their annual meeting in the UK free of talk of their child torture and abuse they participate in and profit from,  inside Palestine. Forever the name G4S means child torturer. And it is all because of BDS. BDS brings Truth into Light. Thank God for creating BDS. Sherri


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 18, 2013)




----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 18, 2013)




----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 18, 2013)

. Israel deliberately targets the Palestinian child to abuse. This is despicable conduct and completely unjustifiable. And people of conscience worldwide are never ever going to stop speaking out against these egregious atrocities against humanity as long as they keep happening. All the posters here who defend these crimes against the child show all how low Zionism is and how low people are willing to sink to defend it! Not a pretty picture! And BDS is a tool any person can embrace to oppose these crimes against humanity in Palestine.  Sherri


----------



## Kondor3 (Jun 18, 2013)

G4S? Little ado about even less... nothing to see here... move along... move along...


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 18, 2013)

. G4S Securing Israels Torture Dens


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 18, 2013)

"G4S is a British-Danish private security company that provides services and equipment to Israeli prisons, checkpoints, the Apartheid Wall and the Israeli police.In 2007,*G4S signed a contract with the Israeli Prison Authority*to provide security systems and other services for major Israeli prisons. G4S provides systems for the Ketziot and Megiddo prisons, which hold Palestinian political prisoners from occupied Palestinian territory inside Israel. Article 76 of the Fourth Geneva Convention prohibits the transfer of prisoners from occupied territory into the territory of the occupier.G4S*also provides*equipment for Ofer prison, located in the occupied West Bank, and for Kishon and Moskobiyyeh detention facilities, at which human rights organisations have documented systematic torture and ill treatment of Palestinian prisoners, including child prisoners. Defence for Children-Palestine (DCI-Palestine) has released an urgent appeal to end the practice of holding Palestinian children from the West Bank in solitary confinement in facilities in Israel. The organization has*documented 53 such cases*since 2008."     Stop G4S | BDSmovement.net.   G4S is complicit in Israels violation of international laws against Palestinian political prisoners, in Israel and Occupied Palestine, against adult and child prisoners. Sherri


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## Kondor3 (Jun 18, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> "..._Israel deliberately targets the Palestinian child to abuse_..."


English as a second language? Absolutely atrocious grammar.

The video shows one (1) lonely fellow outside a prison posing for the camera, and vomiting some of the worst Palestinian propaganda that I've seen in quite some time.

Do we have an Emoticon for "Tin-Foil Hat"?



> "..._This is despicable conduct and completely unjustifiable_..."



Yes. Vomiting propaganda 24 x 7 for a living is, indeed, despicable conduct, and completely unjustifiable.



> "..._And people of conscience worldwide are never ever going to stop speaking out against these egregious atrocities against humanity as long as they keep happening_..."



Unfortunately for you, most people of good conscience worldwide would usually check their facts before trusting the word of a fringe-nutter wearing a tin-foil hat, as may be seen in that video.



> "..._All the posters here who defend these crimes against the child show all how low Zionism is and how low people are willing to sink to defend it! Not a pretty picture!_..."



I haven't seen one person here defend the torture of any child; regardless of nationality.

For that matter, we have yet to see you serve-up credible evidence that G4S *IS* torturing children.



> "..._And BDS is a tool any person can embrace to oppose these crimes against humanity in Palestine. Sherri_"



The preceding message was brought to you by: Sand-Flea Propper-Uppers, LLC, a division of Palestinian Hokey-Pokey-Smoke-and-Mirrors Global Enterprises, Unlimited.

Next slide, please.


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 18, 2013)




----------



## Kondor3 (Jun 18, 2013)

Golly-gosh gee-willickers, Emmy Lou...

Teenagers getting arrested for throwing stones at the cops and the Army guys?

Hell, that can happen *HERE*, or damned-near anyplace *ELSE* in the world, never mind Israel.

What news service is serving this up?

What is this British Lawyers' group that the video talks about?

Lots of accusations, but very little accountability on the part of the accusers.

Don't want your kid to be arrested for throwing stones at the cops and the Army guys?

Teach him not to throw stones at the cops and Army guys.

Otherwise, the cops and Army guys will teach the lesson that you should have taught your child in the first place.

Breaking the law has consequences... even for teenagers.


----------



## georgephillip (Jun 18, 2013)

Kondor3 said:


> Golly-gosh gee-willickers, Emmy Lou...
> 
> Teenagers getting arrested for throwing stones at the cops and the Army guys?
> 
> ...


What's the lesson, Gomer?
It's A-OK to steal other people's land and water or use their kids as target practice?
Otherwise, you make perfect sense.


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 18, 2013)

Israels war against Palestinian children continues

"SILWAN, occupied East Jerusalem (IPS) 16 June -- "Father please help me! Dont let them take me away," screamed 12-year-old Ahmed Siyam as approximately fifty heavily armed Israeli soldiers and police dragged the handcuffed and blindfolded boy*away."  "  Silwan, Jerusalem (SILWANIC) 18 June -- A 14-year old boy was abducted by Israeli undercover forces from Bir Ayyub this morning. Ahmed Siyam was taken by an undercover unit from outside his uncles shop in Bir Ayyub and transferred to Salah al-Din police station."  "Silwan, Jerusalem (SILWANIC) 18 June -- A child attacked by Israeli forces in Issawiya, north Jerusalem has been transferred to Hadassah Hospital. Ahmed Dahoud Siyam was beaten severely by Israeli security and undercover forces and was found by doctors to have broken his right hand"     "AIC 16 June -- ...From the beginning of 2011 Israel has demolished 215 structures in East Jerusalem and Area C. As a result of these demolitions, 437 Palestinians have been displaced from their homes, including 213 children. "  Israel?s war against Palestinian children continues | Mondoweiss. Crimes against the Palestinian child by Israel and those who work in her security system and prisons carrying out these crimes for her are continuous and continuously being documented,  as this article from 2011 illustrates. Sherri


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## georgephillip (Jun 18, 2013)

toastman said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...


*One of many things hasbara is still confused about:*

"Israel and the apartheid analogy is a comparison between Israel's treatment of the Palestinians to South Africa's treatment of non-whites during its apartheid era.[1]

"The analogy has been used by United Nations investigators, human rights groups and critics of Israeli policy, some of which have also accused Israel of committing the crime of apartheid.[2][3] 

"Critics of Israeli policy say that 'a system of control' in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, including Jewish-only settlements, separate roads for Israeli and Palestinian citizens, military checkpoints, discriminatory marriage law, the West Bank barrier, use of Palestinians as cheap labour, Palestinian West Bank enclaves, inequities in infrastructure, legal rights, and access to land and resources between Palestinians and Israeli residents in the Israeli-occupied territories resembles some aspects of the South African apartheid regime, and that elements of Israel's occupation constitute forms of colonialism and of apartheid, which are contrary to international law..."


Israel and the apartheid analogy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Kondor3 (Jun 18, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Golly-gosh gee-willickers, Emmy Lou...
> ...


The lesson has already been articulated.

Next slide, please.


----------



## Kondor3 (Jun 18, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> "...Israel and the apartheid analogy is a comparison between Israel's treatment of the Palestinians to South Africa's treatment of non-whites during its apartheid era..."


That's nice.

The difference being that the non-white South Africans were not suicide-bombing innocent civilians and lobbing thousands of rockets indiscriminately at civilian population centers.

Launched from their own population centers, no less - hiding behind their womens' skirts like the pussies they are.


----------



## georgephillip (Jun 18, 2013)

Kondor3 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...


*Sure thing..."inhuman acts":*

"In 1973 the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid (ICSPCA) was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly.[33] The ICSPCA defines the crime of apartheid as *'inhuman acts committed for the purpose* of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group ... over another racial group ... and systematically oppressing them."[34] 

Israel and the apartheid analogy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## georgephillip (Jun 18, 2013)

Kondor3 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > "...Israel and the apartheid analogy is a comparison between Israel's treatment of the Palestinians to South Africa's treatment of non-whites during its apartheid era..."
> ...


Even White South Africans weren't cowardly enough to cluster bomb children.
What's your amateurish excuse?


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 18, 2013)

Human nature is to strike back against Injustices like Occupations and Apartheid. The fact there is violent resistance sometimes, taking different forms at different points in time, does not lesson any of the crimes a part of Occupation and Apartheid. This was true about Apartheid in South Africa and Apartheid in Palestine.  We all see the crimes of Occupation. Like 1519 Palestinian children killed by Israel listed by name and how they each were killed by Israel on Remember These Children website. BDS is a method to keep these human rights abuses in the spotlight . All of the time. A way to ensure the world never forgets about or  stops speaking about these killings of and abuses against children and others in Apartheid and Occupation in Palestine.   Sherri


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## Kondor3 (Jun 18, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


I've already outlined the major operative difference.

Don't want your kids harmed?

Stop launching rockets indiscriminately at Israeli civilian population centers.

Or move your rocket launchers away from your own civilian population centers and stop hiding behind your womens' skirts.

Launch rockets, and you're gonna get hurt in return, quite probably hurting you an order of magnitude more than the harm that you inflicted in the first place.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 18, 2013)

Israels cluster bombs continue to kill and maim in Lebanon

Dalila Mahdawi*The Electronic Intifada*   "Although Lebanon has been plagued by landmines since its 1975-1990 civil war and subsequent Israeli occupation, it faced unprecedented contamination levels from cluster munitions after Israel launched a*34-day war*in July 2006. According to*Human Rights Watch, Israels use of the weapons was the most extensive anywhere in the world since the 1991 Gulf War.In the last 72 hours of fighting, at a time when the United Nations Security Council had adopted Resolution 1701 calling for an immediate halt to hostilities, Israel dropped more than four million cluster bombs over south Lebanon. Of those, at least 40 percent failed to explode upon impact, according to the UN, becoming*de facto*landmines across Lebanons agricultural heartland.These are the most indiscriminate weapons of modern warfare; 95 percent of all victims of cluster munitions are civilians, according to the organization Handicap International. Since the cessation of hostilities five years ago, 408 Lebanese civilians have been killed or injured by cluster munitions, 115 of them under 18 years old. Unless properly disposed of, the weapons keep killing and maiming for decades".    Israel's cluster bombs continue to kill and maim in Lebanon | The Electronic Intifada


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## Kondor3 (Jun 18, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> "_Israels cluster bombs continue to kill and maim in Lebanon..._"


Maybe Hezbollah should not have initiated a campaign of rocket-attacks upon Israeli civilian population centers, then, causing Israel to strike back; leaving such munitions lying about.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 18, 2013)

Deliberate targeting of civilians and civilian objects, as Israel regularly engages in, are war crimes. It does not matter what excuses the baby killers come up with, they have no justification under intl law. Saying fighters hide behind these targeted children is a lie and even if true does not justify targeting the children. The targeting remains a war crime.


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## Kondor3 (Jun 18, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> "_Deliberate targeting of civilians and civilian objects, as Israel regularly engages in, are war crimes._.."


We do not know that Israel deliberately targets civilians.



> "..._It does not matter what excuses the baby killers come up with, they have no justification under intl law_..."



Hyperbole of the worst sort.



> "..._Saying fighters hide behind these targeted children is a lie_..."



Correct.

There ARE no 'targeted children'.

You have not produced credible evidence that Israel intentionally targets children for killing.

But it is documented fact that both Hamas and Hezbollah launch rockets from within their own civilian population centers.

Hiding behind their womens' skirts, so-to-speak.



> "..._and even if true_..."



It is, indeed, true, that Hamas and Hezbollah hide launchers and other military assets and bases within their own civilian population centers.



> "..._does not justify targeting the children_..."



Ahhhhh... but the Israelis do NOT target children. They target military assets, and, oftentimes, civilians are killed or wounded when they strike at such assets, because Hamas and Hezbollah spinelessly hide amongst their own women and children.



> "..._The targeting remains a war crime._"



Nope.

Tell that to the Allies who engaged for years in the strategic bombing of Axis cities because war-production and war-making assets were situated within civilian population centers, a process which unfortunately generated a great many civilian casualties along the way.

But the danger to the Allies' own peoples was eventually neutralized through such an approach.

But, keep in mind that *the use of Human Shields* to hide war-assets *is a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention* protocol and *is a war-crime of the worst sort*, not to mention carrying the taint of Extreme Cowardice.


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 18, 2013)

. Israel missile targets Gaza house. Unlawful targeting of civilians is regular IDF operating practice.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 18, 2013)

A Palestinian. 
woman is murdered.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 18, 2013)

In the course of Operation Cast Lead,, B'Tselem and other organizations were informed of cases in which soldiers used Palestinians as human shields. There was even a prosecution in one case, two soldiers were prosecuted for ordering a nine-year-old boy gunpoint to open a bag that they suspected was booby-trapped. They were given a three-month conditional sentence and demoted from staff sergeant to private.  This, for committing a war crime. ZIONIST justice? This is from the testimony of a witness about one use of Palestinians as human shields in Cast Lead.  "After that, the soldiers brought Muhammad, Ibrahim, and Sa'ed out too. They were blindfolded and their hands were tied. The soldiers also blindfolded me and tied my hands. Rim came and helped me walk. My children and I walked in the street, the soldiers behind us. While we walked, the soldiers continued to beat my three sons, who cried out in pain. The soldiers told them to shut up and swore at them and at Allah. They took us to a house about 130 meters from our house, which overlooks Salah a-Din Street. It was 10:00 A.M. The soldier ordered us to go into the house and sit under the staircase. Then they beat us. After that, they ordered Rim to leave but not to return to our house. Later, I learned that she walked by herself about seven 700 meters down the street to a house on Salah a-Din Street, where she stayed for a day. Then she went to the house of my brother, who lives in Gaza City.After the soldiers beat us, they forced us to walk, again, in front of them, toward a tank that was about 100 meters from the house in which we had been. It was Friday, about 1:00 P.M. or so. I heard the sound of tanks. The soldiers ordered me and my three sons to get onto a tank. We rode in the tank, blindfolded and our hands tied, for about three hours. It was very uncomfortable. We bumped into each other, and into the tank, mostly in the head. It was a long and exhausting ride."  Testimony of 'Izzat 'Omar Muhammad Kasab | B'Tselem


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 18, 2013)

The Impact of the Conflict on Children

129 Israeli children*and*1,519 Palestinian children have been killed since September 29, 2000.
                                                                                                                                                                                        The majority of these [Palestinian] children were killed and injured while going about normal daily activities, such as going to school, playing, shopping, or simply being in their homes. Sixty-four percent of children killed during the first six months of 2003 died as a result of Israeli air and ground attacks, or from indiscriminate fire from Israeli soldiers.&#8221;Palestinian and Israeli Children Killed.                 This is what makes Jesus cry. Jesus confronts Injustice, see Matthew 23, He is my  example to follow, He is not silent in the face of Injustices like Occupation and Apartheid and the killing of children, nor does He support it. Sherri


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## HistoryBefore67 (Jun 18, 2013)

I think the BDS actually started when Alice Walker divorced her Jewish husband.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 18, 2013)

Alice Walker did not create BDS.


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## toastman (Jun 18, 2013)

Sherri, BDS has been around for almost a DECADE, and they've accomplished close to nothing. What do you have to say about that


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## Kondor3 (Jun 18, 2013)

HistoryBefore67 said:


> _I think the BDS actually started when Alice Walker divorced her Jewish husband._


< snicker >


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## Kondor3 (Jun 18, 2013)

Oooohhh...

And if Sherri can spam the boards with Arab-Muslim propaganda videos on Youtube...

Can Israel-supporters spam the boards with Israeli-Jewish propaganda videos on Youtube?

I can just see it now...

Entire threads given-over to the vomiting-up of hatred and bile and unaccountable and anonymous authors and video-editors and unverified and hairy-assed wild-and-wooly claims of every shape and size and degree of incredulity under the sun...

Here's a little down-payment, for anyone with too much time on their hands... 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_UBc96u50k]Hamas Barbaric Tactics To Blame Israel For "War Crimes" (GAZA) - YouTube[/ame]


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## HistoryBefore67 (Jun 18, 2013)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvjbLYXnQmE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvjbLYXnQmE[/ame]


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## Kondor3 (Jun 18, 2013)

More video propaganda in the tradition of Sherri's (and others') vomitus...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuWsWClhgO8]HAMAS'S WAR CRIMES - YouTube[/ame]


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## Kondor3 (Jun 18, 2013)

Hamas' War Crimes:

Outlined by Irwin Cotler, former Minister of Justice for Canada; a Canadian Jew, serving up an international judicial perspective on the culpability of Hamas...

War Crime No. 1 - Palestinian rocket attacks deliberately targeting civilians in Israel.

War Crime No. 2 - Co-opting civilians to be Human Shields; forcing civilian casualties upon defense's response.

War Crime No. 3 - Widespread and systematic suicide-bombing campaign directed against Israeli civilians.

War Crime No. 4 - Hamas Charter constitutes incitement to genocide.

War Crime No. 5 - Hamas' violation of Perfidy Principle: Misrepresenting humanitarian services to gain a combative edge (exploiting hospitals, ambulances, medical dress - for combat or terror purposes - or storing or launching missiles from humanitarian sites).

War Crime No. 6 - Violating the rights of children: Recruiting, training and dispatching as combatants or terrorists is strictly prohibited under international law.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O75b2OI_zM]The 6 war-crimes Hamas should be prosecuted for perpetrating - YouTube[/ame]

================================================

Lots more where that came from, of course, but ya'll get the idea...


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 18, 2013)

BDS is about responding to the crimes in Occupation and Apartheid. Posters into Zionist Idolatry seem unable to deal with any of that. What is so alluring about the worship of Zion? This has nothing to do with Hamas , I just have to laugh at the desperation I see displayed here.


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## MHunterB (Jun 18, 2013)

BDS is BS.  That's the most basic truth there is.


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## toastman (Jun 18, 2013)

Sherri, you didn't answer my question about BDS. Let me try again.

BDS has been around for almost a decade, and they've managed to accomplish little to nothing. How do you feel about this ?


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 18, 2013)

BDS has only lasted a decade, a poster said, so what? Slavery lasted for hundreds of years in America.  Occupations have come and gone for thousands of years in the ME. So, the present Occupation will end too and BDS is the tool all can use and all can be a part of to seeing Occupation end in Palestine. I cannot wait to see the end to this Occupation.  Sherri


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## toastman (Jun 18, 2013)

A decade of accomplishing nothing. A decade of wasting time. May they last another decade of uselessness while Israel continues to thrive and build


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## toastman (Jun 18, 2013)




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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 18, 2013)

The Norwegian doctor Mads Gilbert has just came from Gaza, and talked about what he has seen - and about SAMUD! arabic for steadfastness. The palestinians have always been filled by samud.Now the UN has to take the burden of their shoulder, make Palestine a free state and end the occupation.   Ingunn in Oslo on Blipfoto :: SAMUD! MADS GILBERT :: 29 November 2012 SAMUD so perfectly describes Palestinian resistance to Occupation. A man visits Gaza and what he cannot get out of his head is SAMUD! Sherri


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## Hossfly (Jun 18, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Human nature is to strike back against Injustices like Occupations and Apartheid. The fact there is violent resistance sometimes, taking different forms at different points in time, does not lesson any of the crimes a part of Occupation and Apartheid. This was true about Apartheid in South Africa and Apartheid in Palestine.  We all see the crimes of Occupation. Like 1519 Palestinian children killed by Israel listed by name and how they each were killed by Israel on Remember These Children website. BDS is a method to keep these human rights abuses in the spotlight . All of the time. A way to ensure the world never forgets about or  stops speaking about these killings of and abuses against children and others in Apartheid and Occupation in Palestine.   Sherri


Frau Sherri, you keep on bringing up these same children constantly, but you seem to close your eyes to the thousands of children murdered in the Muslim world.  Is there some organization that is keeping track of the names of the murdered children, whether they are Muslims, Christians, Buddhists or Hindus?  We all can see how the Arab Propaganda Machine is spinning on and on by all the videos that Frau Sherri seems to have; however, we will never see any videos from her as to what her friends are doing to innocent others in the Muslim world.  Any atrocities and murders are shoved under the rug since no Jews are involved so it would be a wasted effort to make such videos.

As for apartheid...........
Israel is no apartheid state, insists Muslim author - Israel Today | Israel News

Apartheid: More Than Just a Word | HonestReporting


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## Kondor3 (Jun 18, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> "...So, the present Occupation will end too..."


Indeed.

It's almost over, already.

Look at the map.

In the end, the Palestinians will pack-up and leave, and _Eretz Yisrael_ will be complete once again; ending a quest that began in 1948 (or was that 70 A.D.?).

The world will remark upon it, yawn, and go back to sleep; forgetting all about it, at the speed of light.

After 65 years, the world has had enough of these troublesome, uncompromising, irrational Palestinian-Arabs, and will not shed a tear, to see them scattered about the region and out of everyone's hair.



> "..._and BDS is the tool all can use and all can be a part of to seeing Occupation end in Palestine_..."










> "..._I cannot wait to see the end to this Occupation. Sherri_"








No problem, Sherri... almost there... tick, tick, tick...


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 18, 2013)

It has to be over soon, every day the Arabs in Palestine become a greater majority. It gets harder and harder to carry out Apartheid as the Arab population explodes, over 5 million and growing. Dont you love how God takes care of Injustices like Occupation and Apartheid!


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 18, 2013)




----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 18, 2013)




----------



## MHunterB (Jun 18, 2013)

http://20px.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/unicorn_pooping_a_rainbow_20px.jpg

I love that GIF : ))


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## toastman (Jun 18, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> It has to be over soon, every day the Arabs in Palestine become a greater majority. It gets harder and harder to carry out Apartheid as the Arab population explodes, over 5 million and growing. Dont you love how God takes care of Injustices like Occupation and Apartheid!



I don't know what fantasy world you live in, but it sure isn't a world of reality. Wake up Sherri !


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 18, 2013)

Israeli Professor speaks about demographics in Israel and Israels Holocaust Industry and racism and white supremacy thinking. Prifessor Jonathan Anson, Ben Gurion University


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## HistoryBefore67 (Jun 18, 2013)

I think we should all BDS this thread.

All its become is a platform for Sherri to spam us with BS.

Who's with me?


----------



## Kondor3 (Jun 18, 2013)

HistoryBefore67 said:


> I think we should all BDS this thread.
> 
> All its become is a platform for Sherri to spam us with BS.
> 
> Who's with me?


Hit me again, with the Alternate Acronym definition...


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 18, 2013)

The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement against Israel found itself a friend in major American newspaper USA Today recently, when a press release about its efforts to have Alicia Keys cancel her upcoming show in Israel appeared almost verbatim in an article on the newspaper&#8217;s website.   USA Today Publishes BDS Press Release Almost Word for Word, Accuses Israel of ?Large-Scale Abuses of Palestinian Rights? | The 5 Towns Jewish Times


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 18, 2013)

Summer BDS Institute for Student Leaders
https://afsc.org/story/summer-bds-institute-student-leaders Quakers and Jewish Voice For Peace host Summer BDS Institute.


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## Kondor3 (Jun 18, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> _The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement against Israel found itself a friend in major American newspaper USA Today..._








"*Hokey-Smokes, Batman... a whole Press Release made it almost un-changed into an American paper!*"

Hold the presses!!!

Extreee... Extree... read all about it... propaganda gets published... unheard-of, in the real world... sympathizers delude themselves that this means the media outlet is now 'friendly' to them!!!

At this rate, their entire range of bile will have been printed by the mainstream media within the next 100 years.

Some 60-70 years too late to do our Palestinian colleagues any good, but at least the story will all be aired.


----------



## Hossfly (Jun 18, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement against Israel found itself a friend in major American newspaper USA Today recently, when a press release about its efforts to have Alicia Keys cancel her upcoming show in Israel appeared almost verbatim in an article on the newspaper&#8217;s website.   USA Today Publishes BDS Press Release Almost Word for Word, Accuses Israel of ?Large-Scale Abuses of Palestinian Rights? | The 5 Towns Jewish Times


As you can see, these papers gets press releases from different places and didn't even bother to check.  Maybe someone should send this particular newspaper something about all the Christians who have been persecuted by Frau Sherri's friends in the Muslim world.  I am sure all the good Christians in this country who are unaware of just what is going on would be interested in learning about this.

USA Today Runs BDS Press Release as a Story | HonestReporting


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## toastman (Jun 18, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> > The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement against Israel found itself a friend in major American newspaper USA Today recently, when a press release about its efforts to have Alicia Keys cancel her upcoming show in Israel appeared almost verbatim in an article on the newspaper&#8217;s website.   USA Today Publishes BDS Press Release Almost Word for Word, Accuses Israel of ?Large-Scale Abuses of Palestinian Rights? | The 5 Towns Jewish Times
> ...



I'm sure if there was a BDS movement against some Arab states who treat Christians like 29th class citizens, then those associated with the movement will likely start to get killed. We all know how some Arab Tyrant leaders of Muslim states or leaders of a terrorist militia, use f_*FEAR*_ to intimidate their enemy or anyone who opposes them, including their own civilians. This is the kind of fear that is deterring anyone or group who opposes them or their views to step up and speak.
I wonder what would happen to a Palestinian in Gaza if he openly opposes Hamas and calls them terrorists.

Of course, Israelis don't partake in this kind of "intimidation through fear" bullshit for groups who oppose them, so that makes them an easy target for groups like BDS


----------



## Hossfly (Jun 18, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Summer BDS Institute for Student Leaders
> https://afsc.org/story/summer-bds-institute-student-leaders Quakers and Jewish Voice For Peace host Summer BDS Institute.


How about a Summer Institute, Frau Sherri, for those who can learn how to face up to your friends and tell them it isn't right that people are being murdered for their religious beliefs.  Meanwhile, Frau Sherri, although there are those in this silly movement who have tried to get others to boycott this company, it looks like they will be going great guns.  I hope the viewers remember to buy KitchenAid products.

http://www.jewishjournal.com/business/article/israels_sodastream_inks_deal_with_kitchenaid


KitchenAid, SodaStream teaming up on devices


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 19, 2013)

. Jewish American Anna Baltzer speaks about BDS at Colorado BDS Conference in April 2013. Three goals of BDS, freedom and equality and justice. Freedom from Occupation Of all people in Palestine  Equal rights for Arabs in Israel. JUSTICE for refugees. All of these goals are required by intl law. Sherri


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 19, 2013)

BDS Conference in Colorado, we hear about BDS projects people in Colorado are presently  working on, like Billboards and Bus ads.


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## toastman (Jun 19, 2013)

Stop spammin youtube videos Sherri Munnerlyn


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## Hossfly (Jun 19, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4VFw1Kjpo0&feature=youtube_gdata_player. Jewish American Anna Baltzer speaks about BDS at Colorado BDS Conference in April 2013. Three goals of BDS, freedom and equality and justice. Freedom from Occupation Of all people in Palestine  Equal rights for Arabs in Israel. JUSTICE for refugees. All of these goals are required by intl law. Sherri


Why, Frau Sherri, we all here are aware that there are Leftist Jews.  However, have you ever seen one of these Leftist Jews concerning themselves with the harassment and murder of those innocents in Muslim countries because of religious beliefs.  These people are such phonies when all they concern themselves with is Israel and close their eyes to actual atrocities going on.  Meanwhile, the viewers will note that the Arab Propaganda Machine is still going on and on with the videos that Frau Sherri pulls up and no doubt she has thousands more of these videos.   I hope all the fair minded viewers remember to buy KitchenAid products since they don't fall for this BDS nonsense.  Frau Sherri can import her appliances from some Arab countries to make her feel good.


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## Hossfly (Jun 19, 2013)

toastman said:


> Stop spammin youtube videos Sherri Munnerlyn


Listen, all these videos show us that the Arab Propaganda Machine against Israel is very, very busy.  Does anyone think Frau Sherri has any videos to show us the atrocities her friends are committing on innocent people?  I heard recently that the Los Angeles City Council voted against this BDS nonsense.


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## Sweet_Caroline (Jun 19, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Stop spammin youtube videos Sherri Munnerlyn
> ...



I have noticed that far from people being _against_ Israel, they are more and more _pro-Israel_ because Israel is finally (long overdue in my opinion) getting its message across to the world.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 19, 2013)

Zionists and the Fantasyland they live in only operate to fuel the growing BDS Movement forward!


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## Sweet_Caroline (Jun 19, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Zionists and the Fantasyland they live in only operate to fuel the growing BDS Movement forward!



On the contrary, the opposite is evidently the case.  It is the anti-Zionists that seem to be the minority.  It never used to be like that, but is now.  Never mind.  Perhaps you could find some obscure African country to spark your interest, because you are certainly in the minority here.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 19, 2013)

Ramallah  18 June 2013  "On 8 June 2013 the Palestinian BDS National Committee (BNC)[1] organized its Fourth National BDS Conference at Bethlehem University, under the slogan: Boycotting Israel and opposing normalization contribute to Liberation, Return of Refugees, and Self-Determination. With 700 participants, mostly representatives of the national committee member entities, including political parties, trade unions, womens organizations, professional syndicates, youth and student groups, and other civil society organizations, the conference was hailed by several commentators as a turning point for the BDS movements local work. A substantial part of the credit goes to the selfless efforts of tens of  mainly youth  volunteers who worked for long weeks on organizing all aspects of the conference with dedication and*South African Archbishop*Desmond Tutu, one of the highest-profile supporters of BDS against Israel, addressed the conference via a recorded video message, saying he was certain that the Palestinian people will achieve their freedom one day, when they will walk tall with dignity in a free Palestine, drawing thunderous applause. This was followed by another recorded solidarity message from*Roger Waters, a world celebrity and founder of Pink Floyd, in which he saluted the conference and reaffirmed his firm support for BDS until the Palestinians enjoy freedom, justice and equal rights.The Opening Session was concluded by the main BNC speech, presented via videoconference.".    Report on the Fourth National BDS Conference, 8 June 2013, Bethlehem 19Jun13 | Australians for Palestine BDS is flourishing, growing, exploding all over our world. Freedom and equality and justice are goals that can unite people everywhere. Sherri


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## toastman (Jun 19, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Zionists and the Fantasyland they live in only operate to fuel the growing BDS Movement forward!




Fuel the growing ??? Bahahah !

Theyve been around for just about a decade, I have not seen them have ANY effect the Jewish living in Judea and Samaria


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 19, 2013)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> > Zionists and the Fantasyland they live in only operate to fuel the growing BDS Movement forward!
> ...



BDS is alive all over the US, college campuses an illustration. BDS is alive every country all over the world. ZIONISTS cannot stop BDS, no matter how filled with their chosen people superiority ideas  they become.


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## toastman (Jun 19, 2013)

More lies from Sherri. No one is filled with their chosen people superiority. Show me one posts thats suggests , liar !


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## toastman (Jun 19, 2013)

I would also like any shred of evidence that BDS has had any effect on the product sales from the West Bank


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 19, 2013)

Major UK union votes against Trade Union Friends of Israel

Posted on*June 11, 2013*by*Jerusalem PostLONDON &#8211; One of the UK&#8217;s largest trade unions is to ban its members from visiting Israel and the Palestinian territories on delegations organized by the Trade Union Friends of Israel (TUFI), a London-based organization supporting cooperation between Israeli and Palestinian workers.The GMB, which has over 617,000 members from an array of sectors, voted on Thursday at its annual conference in Plymouth to uphold a 2011 decision to &#8220;take a lead in driving forward the boycott and divestment initiatives of &#8220;companies who profit from illegal settlements, the occupation and the construction of the wall.&#8221;- See more at: Major UK union votes against Trade Union Friends of Israel | BDSmovement.net


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 19, 2013)

Bloque Nacionalista Galego trade union in Galicia votes to support BDS

Posted on*March 17, 2013*by*BNCIn January 2013, five major trade unions in the*Galicia region of the Spanish state*announced their support for boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) against Israel. Below is an English translation of the statement. In March 2013, the*Bloque Nacionalista Galego union also voted to adopt BDS. Here below is an English translation of the*statement*released announcing the decision.The BNG always took a clearly opposed*position to any kind of national oppression.Israel, a confessional*state with a multinational origin, settled in Palestine, practices an*specific form of oppression called Zionism, whose aim is the*appropriation of the territory and the eradication of its people by*successive ethnic cleansing operations.- See more at: Bloque Nacionalista Galego trade union in Galicia votes to support BDS | BDSmovement.net.  Bloque Nacionalista Galego trade union in Galicia votes to support BDS | BDSmovement.net


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 19, 2013)

SodaStream Boycott

Interfaith Boycott Coalition

The Interfaith Boycott Coalition includes*the organizations Israel Palestine Mission Network of the Presbyterian Church (USA),*Jewish Voice for Peace, American Muslims for Palestine, American Friends Service Committee, Episcopal Peace Fellowship&#8217;s Palestine Israel Network,*Unitarian Universalists for Justice in the Middle East, Friends of Sabeel North America, United Church of Christ, Church of the Brethren, United Methodist Kairos Response and members of the Catholic, Lutheran, Mennonite and Quaker traditions.The Interfaith Boycott Coalition operates as a network of the US Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation, a coalition of nearly 400 US organizations.



SodaStream&#8217;s main production site is in Mishor Edomim, an Israeli settlement industrial park located in the West Bank.*

The land where the SodaStream factory is located was illegally confiscated by the Israeli military occupation authorities from Palestinian owners. Israeli settlements are an impediment to peace and violate international law.Since 1968 the US government has called on Israel to stop building and expanding settlements in the West Bank.Companies should not profit from products that are made on stolen property or that perpetuate the Israeli occupation of the West Bank   Site Unavailable http://sodastreamboycott.org/


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 19, 2013)




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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 19, 2013)

Boycott SodaStream!

"This petition is the launch of the new Interfaith Coalition Campaign to Boycott SodaStream! ... We are thirsty for justice.*We are Christians, Muslims, Jews, and other people of conscience calling on all consumers and stores to stop buying and selling SodaStream carbonation devices or other products made by this company. SodaStream manufactures these machines within an Israeli settlement in occupied Palestinian territory. These settlements are illegal under international law and are obstacles to peace. We choose not to partake in supporting this unethical enterprise and ask consumers and stores to join us.*We will not be satisfied until*"justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream."*(Amos 5:24)"    Boycott SodaStream! A BDS Petition to sign


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## Sweet_Caroline (Jun 19, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Boycott SodaStream!
> 
> "This petition is the launch of the new Interfaith Coalition Campaign to Boycott SodaStream! ... We are thirsty for justice.*We are Christians, Muslims, Jews, and other people of conscience calling on all consumers and stores to stop buying and selling SodaStream carbonation devices or other products made by this company. SodaStream manufactures these machines within an Israeli settlement in occupied Palestinian territory.* These settlements are illegal under international law and are obstacles to peace*. We choose not to partake in supporting this unethical enterprise and ask consumers and stores to join us.*We will not be satisfied until*"justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream."*(Amos 5:24)"    Boycott SodaStream! A BDS Petition to sign



Oh really?   Prove it!


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## Hossfly (Jun 19, 2013)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


This past 5 days I've asked people, Christians and Jews what effect do they think BDS is having on Israel's economy. None of the approximately 40 people I asked ever heard of BDS. I don't think Israel has anything to worry about.


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## Sweet_Caroline (Jun 19, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



Too right Israel has nothing to worry about.  The anti-Israel lobby are finding out the truth, as time goes on, thanks to the publicity surrounding the lies against Israel.  I am confident, and take great pleasure in seeing the anti-Israel lobby get more and more agitated as time goes on.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 19, 2013)

BDS roundup: The BDS movement, 7 years on, "stronger, more effective and more diverse than ever"

Submitted by*nora*on Wed, 07/11/2012. "The Palestinian call for BDS was launched in July, 2005. The movement continues to grow and strengthen.This week on the BDS roundup: Highlighting the spectacular growth and victories of the 7-year-old BDS movement; Palestinian civil society commends author Alice Walker for her refusal to have her book published by an Israeli publisher; Palestine solidarity activists protest pinkwashing at San Francisco LGBT International Film Festival; and boycott activists take to the roof of G4S headquarters to demand an end to cooperation with the Israeli government."  BDS roundup: The BDS movement, 7 years on, "stronger, more effective and more diverse than ever" | The Electronic Intifada


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 19, 2013)

"Agrexco, Israel&#8217;s former largest exporter of agricultural produce, entered liquidation towards the end of 2011, following a campaign of blockades, demonstrations, lobbying of supermarkets and governments, popular boycotts and legal action in more than 13 countries across Europe. The campaign against the company was a major factor behind the lack of investors&#8217; interest to salvage it.The largest Co-operative in Europe, the Co-Operative Group in the UK, introduced a policy to end trade with companies that source products from Israel&#8217;s*illegal settlements, following a determined campaign by Co-Op members. Campaigners are working to pressure other supermarkets to adopt a similarly comprehensive position. Many supermarkets across Europe already claim not to sell produce from illegal settlements.A sustained campaign against*Ahava, the Israeli cosmetics company situated in an illegal Israeli colony, forced the company to close its flagship London store and retailers in the UK, Norway, Japan and Canada to announce boycotts of the company."  BDS roundup: The BDS movement, 7 years on, "stronger, more effective and more diverse than ever" | The Electronic Intifada. Just some of the sccomplishments after 7 years of BDS.


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## Hossfly (Jun 19, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Boycott SodaStream!
> 
> "This petition is the launch of the new Interfaith Coalition Campaign to Boycott SodaStream! ... We are thirsty for justice.*We are Christians, Muslims, Jews, and other people of conscience calling on all consumers and stores to stop buying and selling SodaStream carbonation devices or other products made by this company. SodaStream manufactures these machines within an Israeli settlement in occupied Palestinian territory. These settlements are illegal under international law and are obstacles to peace. We choose not to partake in supporting this unethical enterprise and ask consumers and stores to join us.*We will not be satisfied until*"justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream."*(Amos 5:24)"    Boycott SodaStream! A BDS Petition to sign


Instead of boycotting SodaStream, how about we boycott the clothing coming in from Muslim counties where the people have no problem killing others in the name of their religion.  By the way, Frau Sherri, since you have Iranian Shiite relatives, what do they have to say about the enormous amount of Shiites murdered by two Sunni suicide bombers at a mosque in Iraq the other day, or do you feel boycotting goods from Israel is more important than worrying about people being murdered because of the Muslim sect they belong to?  Oh by the way, the owner of SodaStream treats his Arab workers very well.  Maybe you can get one of your friends in that area to ask them how they like their jobs or would they rather be unemployed?


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## Kondor3 (Jun 19, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> _BDS roundup: The BDS movement, 7 years on, "stronger, more effective and more diverse than ever_"...


After eight years of zilch, zippp, zero significant results, it had no place *TO* go but up; and, at the end of the day, nobody knows it exists, it's a sand-flea, and a complete dead-end.


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## Kondor3 (Jun 19, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> "Agrexco, Israel&#8217;s former largest exporter of agricultural produce, entered liquidation towards the end of 2011, following a campaign of blockades, demonstrations, lobbying of supermarkets and governments, popular boycotts and legal action in more than 13 countries across Europe. The campaign against the company was a major factor behind the lack of investors&#8217; interest to salvage it.The largest Co-operative in Europe, the Co-Operative Group in the UK, introduced a policy to end trade with companies that source products from Israel&#8217;s*illegal settlements, following a determined campaign by Co-Op members. Campaigners are working to pressure other supermarkets to adopt a similarly comprehensive position. Many supermarkets across Europe already claim not to sell produce from illegal settlements.A sustained campaign against*Ahava, the Israeli cosmetics company situated in an illegal Israeli colony, forced the company to close its flagship London store and retailers in the UK, Norway, Japan and Canada to announce boycotts of the company."  BDS roundup: The BDS movement, 7 years on, "stronger, more effective and more diverse than ever" | The Electronic Intifada. Just some of the sccomplishments after 7 years of BDS.



==============================

A slightly modified version of the text that I posted in refuting GeorgePhillips' own assertions about BDS effectiveness, relative to Agrexco, a day or two ago...

*========================================================*

*Why did Agrexco go bankrupt?*

Shir Hever on the connections between the demise of a company that exports settlement produce and the international boycott and divestment campaign.

By Shir Hever, JNews Blog - Friday, 7 October, 2011 - 12:52 - London, UK

Agrexco is a well-known company founded by the state of Israel to help Israeli farmers export their goods to the rest of the world. The company became a symbol of the Israeli economy, and its brands, such as Carmel, became well known in many European cities.

Despite being responsible for about 60-70% of all Israel&#8217;s agricultural exports, the company recently went bankrupt. In June, financial irregularities were discovered in the company&#8217;s accounts. In September, an Israeli court ruled that the company is to go into liquidation. It is still possible that the company will be bought, although currently an Israeli company (Bickel Flowers) is offering a meager £7 million for a company whose value was estimated at £104 million in June 2009. Bickel Flowers&#8217; offer is yet to be approved by the court.

In today&#8217;s shaky global economy, another company collapsing is hardly a rare event. However, Agrexco, being Israel&#8217;s flagship exporter of agricultural goods, was not expected to run into trouble so fast. Several explanations have been given for the company&#8217;s bankruptcy. Journalists argued that the *company overestimated its growth potential and invested money in terminals and ships, counting on a steady increase in demand that never materialized*. The problem with this explanation is that it doesn&#8217;t explain what caused the sudden decline in demand for Agrexco&#8217;s goods, and why Agrexco&#8217;s management was not able to make adjustments in time.

Another explanation is that *many Israeli farmers abandoned Agrexco* and took their business to its competitors. If that is so, why did the farmers choose to leave Agrexco when Agrexco was offering them various perks to stay with the company?

A third explanation for the company&#8217;s collapse is that *the Israeli government opted to allow it to happen*. This could partly stem from a neoliberal ideology that opposes the concept of state-owned companies, or from pressure by Agrexco&#8217;s competitors. Yet, this explanation does not shed light on why the company collapsed in the first place, and why the government spent 55 million NIS in an attempt to help the company in December 2010.

Indeed, these three explanations may hold some of the truth, but a fourth explanation has been largely ignored by the Israeli economic media &#8211; the fact that *Agrexco has been the target of an international boycott campaig*n, in protest at its role in repressing Palestinians.

Agrexco has been chosen as a focus for protests around the world for three reasons. First, the company&#8217;s exploitation of Palestinian workers; second, the company&#8217;s marketing and selling of agricultural products from the settlements in the West Bank (and from Gaza until 2005); and third, the company&#8217;s policy of misinforming its customers, labeling all its products as &#8220;made in Israel&#8221; even if said products were produced in the West Bank by Palestinians or by settlers.

In 2004, UK activists chained themselves to an Agrexco warehouse and were arrested, but the charges against them were dropped because Agrexco did not wish to defend its actions in court. Groups of activists formed in cities in which Agrexco had concentrated operations (such as Montpellier, France) to protest the company&#8217;s activities and inform the public that the company was involved in criminal activity, exploitation and repression.

Naturally, the company never released any data about the loss of sales as a result of this boycott, not wishing to further bolster the activists&#8217; morale. However, at least some of the Israeli farmers who chose to leave the company must have realized that the company&#8217;s brands were no longer good for sales. Only the company&#8217;s German employees mentioned the boycott in their call to the Israeli government to bail the company out. Apart from Bickel Flowers, three companies expressed an interest in buying Agrexco: the Israeli Kislev, the Irish Total Produce and the Japanese Classic Japan. These companies received hundreds, possibly thousands, of letters from activists urging them not to buy the company, and eventually withdrew from their intention to buy it.

One company, Mehadrin, would have the most to gain from Agrexco&#8217;s demise. The privately-owned Israeli company is set to take Agrexco&#8217;s place as Israel&#8217;s biggest agricultural exporter. Mehadrin also sells agricultural products from the settlements in the West Bank. It also owns lands of destroyed Palestinian villages, given to it free of charge by the government in order to help conceal the ruins (PDF, Hebrew). With the fall of Agrexco, Mehadrin is now in danger of facing a boycott campaign too.

---------

Shir Hever is an Israeli economist and commentator who researches the economic aspects of the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories.

This article may be reproduced on condition that JNews is cited as its source

*Why did Agrexco go bankrupt?* | JNews

==============================

Ummmmm... there appears to be *more than one* school of thought on that.

And, I'd really consider laying-off the Kool-Aid on those BDS Propaganda beat-their-own-drum-whether-it's-warranted-or-not websites... 

*========================================================*

*...and another related post from that same exchange.*..

Quote: Originally Posted by georgephillip 
"..."The largest Co-operative in Europe, the Co-Operative Group in the UK, introduced a policy to end trade with companies that source products from Israel&#8217;s illegal settlements..."
----------

From: by The Commentator on 25 July 2012 16:14

In 2008, trade was suspended with various Israeli companies and in April this year, controversy arose when the group announced it would &#8220;no longer [be] engaging with any supplier of produce known to be sourcing from Israeli settlements&#8221;.

The organisation pays much attention to its &#8216;social responsibility&#8217; arm, under which &#8216;international development and human rights&#8217; plays a headline role, even though in 2009, the organisation missed or dropped 44 percent of its corporate targets in this area.

*Co-Op group under fire for 'hypocritical' Israeli boycot*t - The Commentator

----------

Given that Agrexco went into Liquidation in *August 2011*...

Given that the Co-Op announced its boycott of produce-suppliers in *April 2012*...

( confirmed by the Jerusalem Post )

...a full *8 months AFTER* Agrexco went into Liquidation...

...I'm having some difficulty in understanding just how the Co-Op's boycott was responsible for the (prematurely determined) death of Agrexco...

There's something not-quite-right about the timeline overlays... 

Live and learn, indeed..

*========================================================*

*...and, a third-and-final prior post on this same subject (BDS being responsible for Agrexco's bankruptcy)...*

...

Don't look now...

But *Agrexco is still alive and well, as is its Carmel brand...*

Different principals and capital, quite possibly...

But business-as-usual, by the look of it...

And business is good, according to the performance stats they're displaying on their website...

Agrexco

As I said... that blasted BDS Kool-Aid will screw ya up every time...

*========================================================*

*Hopefully, all this will be of help in locking-down your claims of BDS effectiveness against Agrexco, Sherri...*.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 20, 2013)

BDS is driving companies into bankruptcy. Lmao at Zionist attempts to explain those bankruptcies away!


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 20, 2013)

Consumer and Corporate Boycott Successes. December 2011: The West London Waste Authority excluded French company Veolia from a £485 million (more than $763 million USD) contract. BDS activists have targeted Veolia because of the latter's role building and operating a light rail line that links Jerusalem with illegal Israeli settlements in the occupied Palestinian West Bank. Veolia also takes waste from Israel proper and settlements and dumps it on Palestinian land in the West Bank. Although the reasons for WLWA's decision are confidential, BDS activists celebrated it as a victory. August 2011: Agrexco, the Israeli produce and flower exporter which ships products from Israeli settlements,*declared bankruptcy, an action attributed in part to the boycott of their products.July 2011: The Swedish supermarket chain Coop*stopped purchasing*Soda Stream carbonation devices which are produced in the illegal Israeli settlement of Maale Adumim.May 2011: The state-owned German company Deutsche Bahn*pulled out*of Israel's A1 rail project, which cuts through the occupied West Bank, after pressure from BDS activists and the German government.May 2011: French-Belgian bank Dexia*announced*it was selling its stake in its Israeli subsidiary, Dexia-Israel, after coming under pressure for providing loans for the construction of illegal Israeli settlements.July 2010: U.S.-based Olympia Food Co-op (two grocery stores)*voted*to stop selling all Israeli goods with the exception of a single brand called &#8220;Peace Oil.&#8221;*June 2010: Responding to appeals from Palestinian civil society after Israel&#8217;s attack on a humanitarian aid flotilla to Gaza, dockworkers in*Oakland - California,Sweden, and*Norway*all refused to dock and unload Israeli ships, imposing a blockade so-to-speak on Israeli goods. Similar*historic action*was taken by South African dockworkers in February of 2009.*IMEU: FAQ on Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS)


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 20, 2013)

July 2009  2011: As part of a*CODEPINK campaign*against Israeli settlement-based and settlement-owned Ahava Dead Sea Cosmetics, Kristen Davis wassuspended from her post*as Oxfam spokesperson after it was revealed that she also represented AHAVA Beauty Products. Davis later*ended her contract*with Ahava. CODEPINK also*confirmed*with Costco that it would no longer carry Ahava products after a letter-writing and calling campaign by activists across the U.S. In 2011, Canada's*Hudson Bay Company*and British retailer*John Lewiseach announced they were no longer stocking Ahava. Finally, the Dutch government is*currently investigating*Ahava and its practices.*2006 - 2010:*The Derail Veolia campaign against French corporation Veolia, for its involvement in the construction of a light rail train from Jerusalem into Israeli settlements or colonies on Palestinian land, led to a*loss of over*7 billion for the company across several countries. Israeli news daily*Haaretz reported*that after the losses Veolia had decided to withdraw from the project.November 2007 - 2010: A global campaign against Israeli billionaire, diamond mogul, and settlement-builder*Lev Leviev*initiated by US-based Adalah-NY has led to his*renunciation*by UNICEF,*denunciation*by Oxfam, the*removal of a promotional section*of his website featuring actors like Salma Hayek, Drew Barrymore, and Halle Berry at some of their requests, and a UK governmentdecision*not to rent embassy space from his company. In November 2010, Leviev's Africa Israel company*announced*it would no longer be involved in settlement construction.  IMEU: FAQ on Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS)


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## Kondor3 (Jun 20, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> _BDS is driving companies into bankruptcy. Lmao at Zionist attempts to explain those bankruptcies away!_


Yes, after getting pwned like you did yesterday, over the Agrexco bankruptcy fallacy (_files bankruptcy in 2011, UK's Co-op cited as cause, UK's Co-op only begins produce aspect of boycott 8 months later in 2012, timeline wrong, multiple causes outlined_)... I, too, would run away for some hours, only to slink back in the wee hours of the morning, to 'declare victory' and vomit-up more Palestinian BDS propaganda spam, at a time of day when it will probably be left unchallenged for some hours afterwards.

Oh, and did you _really_ LM*A*O? We can always hope. It would be nice to have a few more days without this Palestinian propaganda diarrhea stinking up the place.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 20, 2013)

All I can do is laugh at Zionists desperate attempt at turning a BDS success story into a Zionist victory.


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## Kondor3 (Jun 20, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> All I can do is laugh at Zionists desperate attempt at turning a BDS success story into a Zionist victory.


You go right ahead and keep laughing, while the *calendar* ( _Agrexco files bankruptcy in 2011, UK Co-op doesn't begin boycott until 8 months AFTER bankruptcy filing, in 2012_ ) and *logic* provide their own objective input. Oh, and, that's not 'desperate' - matter of fact, _that's_ an *easy* one... the calendar does all the talking required.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 20, 2013)

I shall keep on laughing and smiling at all these Beautiful BDS successes. And praising God for them. Thank you, God . Sherri


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 20, 2013)

And I am reminded by a recent article I posted we will soon be arriving at the 8th anniversary of BDS, in July. So, I expect new articles will be written soon  addressing all of the past years accomplishments. I cant wait to read about all of that. Sherri


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## toastman (Jun 20, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> I shall keep on laughing and smiling at all these Beautiful BDS successes. And praising God for them. Thank you, God . Sherri



You provided no  counter-argument to Kondor's post. 
You lost the argument.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 20, 2013)

Agrexco no longer exists. Case closed.


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## toastman (Jun 20, 2013)

See post #333 Sherri, and provide a counter-argument. If you can lol hahaha


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## toastman (Jun 20, 2013)

All I can do is laugh at anti-Israeli posters like you who claim victory where there is no victory. It makes me feel warm inside hahahahaha . I know where to come for a laugh if I need one


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 20, 2013)

Agrexco Agricultural Export Company Ltd.(trading as*Carmel Agrexco), was*Israel&#8217;s largest exporter of agricultural produce, with theEuropean Union*one of its major markets. Agrexco went into liquidation on August 2011 with debts of &#8364;175 million ($217 million), mainly owned to its bondholders that were mostly IsraeliInstitutional investors.[1]   Carmel Agrexco - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Kondor3 (Jun 20, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Agrexco no longer exists. Case closed.


Don't look now, but...

1. there were *multiple* causes for Agrexco's failure (_previously cited in this very thread_), most of which had *nothing* to do with boycotts.

2. new investors bought-up Agrexco in the Fall of 2011 to keep it afloat and resurrect it, and operations resumed within 30 days of their halting; many old employees, less overhead, big contracts, terminals, warehouses, distributors, subsidiaries, fresh capital, etc...

They're still alive-and-well and doing just fine, according to their latest performance figures...

Link to their website: Agrexco

Read it and weep...

Case closed, indeed...


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## Kondor3 (Jun 20, 2013)

toastman said:


> See *post #333* Sherri, and provide a counter-argument. *If you can* lol hahaha


Yeah... it's fun, claiming Victory, when you ignore facts and calendars and logic...


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 20, 2013)

Agrexco no longer exists, telling the world everything about the truth here.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 20, 2013)

Another BDS campaign.


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## Kondor3 (Jun 20, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> *Agrexco no longer exists*, telling the world everything about the truth here.


The mark of the dogmatic propagandist.

Ignoring *REALITY *in favor of what you *WANT* it to be.


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## Kondor3 (Jun 20, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn8lDuO0k0o&feature=youtube_gdata_player Another BDS campaign.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 20, 2013)

Desmond Tutu, who remains active in his BDS work was just honored with an award by an international Christian organization. "The former Anglican Archbishop of Cape Town, Desmond Tutu is known for using his position within the church in the 1970s and 1980s to bring an end to the apartheid policies in South Africa. He chaired the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in 1990s, which helped the country to overcome divisions and make a transition to democracy.Tutu has advocated for human rights, climate justice and dialogue worldwide. He engaged with the WCC on issues of violence, racism and in promoting Christian unity." WCC general secretary congratulates Desmond Tutu on receiving Templeton Prize ? World Council of Churches


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 20, 2013)




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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jun 20, 2013)




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## Hossfly (Jun 25, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMfIZykNH4E&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Frau Sherri can post all of her Arab and Leftist propaganda she likes, but I think I will take the word of non Jews who are living or have lived in Israel who say there is no apartheid there.  Meanwhile, those Muslim women sure like to throw Israeli products into their shopping carts when they are in Middle East markets here in America.  Perhaps Frau Sherri can get away from her computer for a while and stand outside some Middle East market in her own area and tell these Muslim women how bad, bad, bad Israel is and that they shouldn't be buying Israeli goods.  Think of all the fresh air she would get.

A myth-illogical apartheid


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## HistoryBefore67 (Jun 25, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Frau Sherri can post all of her Arab and Leftist propaganda she likes



Not any more she can't!


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## RoccoR (Jun 25, 2013)

_et al,_

I'm not cognizant of what recent event SherriMunnerlyn has been involved, that has warranted action; but, in her General Defense, I would like to say:

SherriMunnerlyn is a passionate protagonist to many of us.  But, she is a needed voice in much of the discussions we have on the various topics and aspects pertaining to the issues surrounding the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict (I-PC).  I know that I have often _(most of the time)_ found myself on the opposite end of the spectrum _(more times then there are stars in the sky)_ when it comes to specifics.  It has been on very rare occasions that I have found myself even in marginal agreement with any position she has taken.  Yet, it is important to all of us, I think, that we understand that we should allow the dissenting views to be heard. 

In fairness, we all know that neither side _(pro-Palestinian or pro-Israeli)_ has a corner on the market in truth, fairness, honesty, and character.   As I have said many times, neither side has clean hands.

A year and a half ago, I was one that straddled the fence.  In many respects, I still do on some aspects of the I-PC.  But there were several people that in their passionate presentations of their views, that I was pushed to one side - off the rail and firmly on the ground to one side of the issues.  It was largely _(although not entirely)_ through SherriMunnerlyn's views that I made that decision; actually changing my views.

You don't have to agree with SherriMunnerlyn, but the views she sets before us are not unique.  Just recently (I should say October 2012), the fourth session of the Russell Tribunal on Palestine _[(RToP) is a court of the people (NGO), a Tribunal of conscience created in reaction to injustices and violations of international law that are not dealt with by existing international jurisdictions]_ met in NYC.  It set its findings before the UN Human Rights Council.  It set the tone, outlining the "Israeli breaches of international (law) towards Palestine and Palestinians and the responsibility of its ally" (	A/HRC/22/NGO/6 11 February 2013).  It is actually sounded, in many respects, like the voice of SherriMunnerlyn.  It is important that we understand the scope and nature of the grievances being made on behalf of the Palestinian.  And SherriMunnerlyn has been, if nothing else, a pulse on that information outlet; a voice we should be careful not to suppress even if it hurts us.

Just My Opinion.

Sincerely,
R


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## Sweet_Caroline (Jun 25, 2013)

Rocco - Sherri was a *downright liar*.  Anyone, even anti-Israel posters here, could see that.


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## toastman (Jun 25, 2013)

It's not so much what she says, but HOW she says it.
If you read her posts enough times, she repeatedly calls the IDF Baby-killers and Nazis. At least once a day ! She constantly gets caught up in her own lies.

Then there are her two famous threads which got moved to the Badlands:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/usmb-badlands/288144-the-myth-of-the-holocaust.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/usmb-...itary-helicopter-crashes-2-pilots-killed.html

Rocco, I recommend you open the second link I posted, and read all of her posts in that thread. Then get back to me


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## Sweet_Caroline (Nov 7, 2013)

Wave of Pop Stars Defy Boycotters to Perform in Israel
More and more pop stars flock to Tel Aviv for first-time performances in Israel; unlike in previous years, stars refuse to bow to BDS.

By Tova Dvorin
First Publish: 11/6/2013, 5:14 PM


Several pop stars have reportedly planned for Tel Aviv tour stops in the upcoming year, in a clear failure for the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions movement - a network of anti-Israel extremists who have been pushing celebrities to boycott the Jewish state. 

Among the planned appearances include Julio Iglesias, set to play in Tel Aviv on November 24; Cyndi Lauper, on January 4, 2014; and Justin Timberlake in May 2014. Beyonce is also expected to perform in Tel Aviv sometime this summer, though dates are as yet unconfirmed, several travel sites report. 

The announcements follow a wave of other recent celebrity and music legend visits to Israel. Just this week, Paula Abdul celebrated a Bat Mitzvah at the Western Wall and met with President Shimon Peres. Alicia Keys and Rihanna have also made Israel appearances this year. 

International music stars seem to be increasingly interested in the Israeli market, bucking persistent BDS efforts to encourage celebrities to snub Tel Aviv in solidarity with anti-Israel sentiments. While several bands in years past have famously booked concerts in Israel and then cancelled - including Elvis Costello and Carlos Santana  - not only are celebrities flocking to Israel, but some are even publicly snubbing BDS protests.

One example is Welsh musician Tom Jones, who British news outlets reported suffered particularly virulent BDS attacks for agreeing to play in Tel Aviv. Jones categorically rejected BDS claims, playing in Tel Aviv as scheduled last month. 

Even hardened anti-Israel bands seem to be joining the neutrality trend; Coldplay - who caused public outrage with anti-Semitic footage in videos and a "Free Palestine" link in a prominent music video - unceremoniously removed the link sometime in early 2012.

Pop Stars to Perform in Israel, Defying Boycotters - Music - News - Israel National News


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## georgephillip (Nov 10, 2013)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Wave of Pop Stars Defy Boycotters to Perform in Israel
> More and more pop stars flock to Tel Aviv for first-time performances in Israel; unlike in previous years, stars refuse to bow to BDS.
> 
> By Tova Dvorin
> ...


*Another perspective on those who $ing for settler-colonialism:* 

"'Music speaks its mind and knows no borders,' says a video on the CCFP home page. 'Music is our gift to each other  Dont let Israels detractors politicize art.'

"Through this message, CCFP hopes to convince artists that performing in Israel during a boycott does not mean taking a political position.

"But CCFP is actually a front for StandWithUs, the notorious right-wing pro-settler organization that works closely with the Israeli Foreign Ministry. And CCFP provides cover for StandWithUs to fight cultural boycott without exposing its own political pro-Israel agenda.

"An article in the Jewish Daily Forward, published online Tuesday, hints at the ties between CCFP and StandWithUs and claims that CCFP 'partnered with StandWithUs' for tax-exempt purposes while awaiting approval of its own nonprofit registration. However, this explanation is inadequate."

'Apolitical' arts organization is front group for StandWithUs


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## docmauser1 (Nov 12, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> Just recently (I should say October 2012), the fourth session of the Russell Tribunal on Palestine _[(RToP) is a court of the people (NGO), a Tribunal of conscience created in reaction to injustices and violations of international law that are not dealt with by existing international jurisdictions]_ met in NYC.


Ah, another special-interst busybody.
"On Monday November 7, I attended the post Tribunal press conference. Organisers of the Russell Tribunal recognised me from a different press conference last week where I asked a question about Hamas violations of human rights. When attempting to ask a question this time, the organisers called me a serious heckler and a Zionist activist.
The first accusation is patently untrue, as I did not engage in any heckling whatsoever. As to the second accusation, I have no problem wearing this title. However, their labelling of me as a Zionist activist was their attempt to delegitimise my argument and me as a person. This is not only against any democratic convention, it is contrary to the stated intention of the Russell Tribunal itself - which is hears all evidence and seek the truth.
Simply for asking an uncomfortable question, which apparently did not fit with the agenda of the Tribunal, I was forcibly removed from the Russell Tribunal's official press conference. Not only was I not allowed to ask any questions, but in attempting to raise issues of concern, I was thrown to the floor, dragged out of the conference and threatened with more violence."...http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Open-Letter-to-the-Russell-Tribunal-20111108http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Open-Letter-to-the-Russell-Tribunal-20111108


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## RoccoR (Nov 12, 2013)

docmauser1,  _et al,_

Many of the special interest assemblies are one-sided; used as reenforcement mechanisms to promote their own cause.  They are not intended for debate, but merely self-recognition.



docmauser1 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > Just recently (I should say October 2012), the fourth session of the Russell Tribunal on Palestine _[(RToP) is a court of the people (NGO), a Tribunal of conscience created in reaction to injustices and violations of international law that are not dealt with by existing international jurisdictions]_ met in NYC.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*




The RToP is a Kangaroo Court.  They even call themselves a "jury."  You cannot expect to hear both sides of the issue in such an environment.  They have an agenda and stick to that agenda, the verdict is predetermined with no chance for a defense or opposing view to be heard.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## Kondor3 (Nov 12, 2013)

What?

Palestinian sympathizers, being intolerant of the opinions of others?

Say it ain't so, Joe !

Who'da-thunk-it?


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## Kondor3 (Nov 12, 2013)

toastman said:


> _It's not so much what she says, but HOW she says it_...


And how intolerant she is of the opinions of others who disagree with her...

And how viciously she attacks those advocates of opposing opinion...

And how disingenuously and obtusely she presents jaded, opaque, lop-sided, cherry-picked renderings and interpretations, while hiding behind a shield of Literalism and Spin-Doctored Technicalities...

Having strong advocates of opposing viewpoints on such gripping issues is one thing...

Allowing a dogmatic extremist to spew propaganda Goebbels-style all day long - unchallenged and uncriticized - is quite another...

Not to mention the Irritation Factor in dealing with obsessive-compulsive Guardhouse Lawyer personality manifestations...

If the broader Israel-Palestine online debate here could be attributable to a baseball game, and if the object of this sidebar was a pitcher, the Manager would probably call 'time' and bring-in a relief pitcher from the bullpen, 'cause the one at the mound has been throwin' 'em in the dirt for quite some time now, and walking so many batters that its tenure on the mound has become something of a joke, for both teams, and the crowd watching the game...

We've all got our strong points and weak points, and things we do that others enjoy, and things we do that annoy and offend others...

Some of us just weigh a bit more on one side of that scale than others...

Some of us have far more difficulty in admitting our own faults and negative characteristics than others...

Some of us are even totally blind to them...

Some of us are aware of them but just don't care, because the Propaganda Mission is everything, and the rest are just means to an end...

Give the majority of your colleagues credit, Rocco, for knowing and appreciating the difference between a challenging and sincere and persistent voice of opposition, and a disingenuous obsessive-compulsive propaganda faucet...

That said, it was a decent piece on your part, and you get a 'Thanks' and 'Rep' from me for Style and Courage on that one, if not Accuracy...


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 12, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> docmauser1,  _et al,_
> 
> Many of the special interest assemblies are one-sided; used as reenforcement mechanisms to promote their own cause.  They are not intended for debate, but merely self-recognition.
> 
> ...




*The Jury*





Alice Walker, author and poet, USA





John Dugard, Profesor of International Law, Former Special rapporteur for both UN Commission on Human Rights and International Law Commission





Mairead Corrigan Maguire, Nobel Peace laureate 1976, Northern Ireland





Gisèle Halimi, lawyer, former Ambassador to UNESCO, France





Ronald Kasrils, writer, activist and former government minister, South Africa





Michael Manfield, Queens Council, Master of the Bench, Greys Inn; Professor of Law, City University, London; Fellow of Law, University of Kent; President of the Haldane Society and Amicus; practising Human Rights lawyer for 45 years.





José Antonio Martin Pallin, emeritus judge, Chamber II, Supreme Court, Spain





Cynthia McKinney, former member of the US Congress and 2008 presidential candidate, Green Party, USA





Alberto San Juan, actor, Spain





Aminata Traoré, author and former Minister of Culture of Mali





Yasmin Sooka, Foundation for Human Rights





Lord Anthony Gifford, British hereditary peer and senior barrister





Angela Davis, American political activist, scholar and author.





Dennis Banks, activist and writer, co-founder of American Indian Movement





Miguel Angel Estrella, Argentine Pianist and UNESCO goodwill ambassador





Stephane Hessel, Ambassadeur de France and former French resistant





Roger Waters is a founding member of the band Pink Floyd; a songwriter, bass guitar player and vocalist

Ii looks like a wide variety of outstanding people to me.


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## Kondor3 (Nov 12, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> "..._Ii looks like a wide variety of outstanding people to me._"


Funny how different people see different things.

Looks like a lunatic-asylum of Leftists, Actors, Ambulance-Chasers and Professional Bureaucrats to me...

A regular Socialist Circle-Jerk Paradise of Foregone Conclusions...

All it took was seeing Angela Davis on the list, to start making me chuckle...


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