# Good Guys With Guns



## Leo123 (Oct 28, 2022)




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## Whodatsaywhodat. (Oct 28, 2022)

God Bless America...  our founders and the second amendment...  anyone that wants to take away Americans guns hates America and Americans.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 28, 2022)

So you find 7 cases... 

Compared to the 20,000 gun homicides, 70,000 gun injuries, 43,000 gun suicides and 400,000 gun crimes every year.


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## Hollie (Oct 28, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> So you find 7 cases...
> 
> Compared to the 20,000 gun homicides, 70,000 gun injuries, 43,000 gun suicides and 400,000 gun crimes every year.


Sales of firearms were setting records because leftists were enabling violent criminals while trying to crush the rights of law-abiding citizens. 

Kinda' reads like leftism is its own worst enemy.


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## M14 Shooter (Oct 28, 2022)

Demcorats want to make it as hard as possible for the law abiding to get guns, so as to prevent shootings like this.
Need to protect their base, see...


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## JoeB131 (Oct 28, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Sales of firearms were setting records because leftists were enabling violent criminals while trying to crush the rights of law-abiding citizens.
> 
> Kinda' reads like leftism is its own worst enemy.



You mean the gun industry unethically told people "Biden is going to take your guns". 

Right after "Obama's gonna take your guns."

Right after "Clinton is going to take your guns". 

And like most RW lies, you keep falling for it.


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## Hollie (Oct 28, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> You mean the gun industry unethically told people "Biden is going to take your guns".
> 
> Right after "Obama's gonna take your guns."
> 
> ...


You mean right after threats from leftist hacks who told us about ''assault weapons'' bans, bans on ammunition magazines that would make thousands of commonly owned types of Firearms illegal or right after Beto O'rourke types threatened to confiscate Firearms?

That idea didn't get much traction when leftist hacks decided to support and enable violent criminals, when leftist hacks refused to prosecute criminals and when leftist hacks thought that letting career criminals loose to kill and maim the public was a good idea. 









						Gun sales: Best May ever, 2021 set to crush record, public 'afraid of violence, tyranny'
					

As Democrats and President Joe Biden continue to promote gun control instead of targeting those who commit violent acts, people in May continued to flood gun stores, giving the month the record for FBI background checks.




					www.washingtonexaminer.com


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## Leo123 (Oct 28, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> So you find 7 cases...
> 
> Compared to the 20,000 gun homicides, 70,000 gun injuries, 43,000 gun suicides and 400,000 gun crimes every year.


It's just a sample.   Besides would you rather those 7 examples resulted in the victims' deaths?


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## 2aguy (Oct 28, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> So you find 7 cases...
> 
> Compared to the 20,000 gun homicides, 70,000 gun injuries, 43,000 gun suicides and 400,000 gun crimes every year.




The majority of gun murder victims are criminals.  The majority of the remainder of gun murder victims are the family and associates of criminals.

Meanwhile, Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies, murders, beatings, stabbings, mass public shootings according to the Centers for Disease Control..... and serve to keep the government from murdering us...the way the european governments murdered 15 million innocent men, women and children between 1939 and 1945...after they banned and confiscated civilian guns.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 29, 2022)

Hollie said:


> You mean right after threats from leftist hacks who told us about ''assault weapons'' bans, bans on ammunition magazines that would make thousands of commonly owned types of Firearms illegal or right after Beto O'rourke types threatened to confiscate Firearms?
> 
> That idea didn't get much traction when leftist hacks decided to support and enable violent criminals, when leftist hacks refused to prosecute criminals and when leftist hacks thought that letting career criminals loose to kill and maim the public was a good idea.



The idea doesn't get much traction because even though most Americans support tougher gun laws, they aren't willing to fight for them.   We all get shocked when a Lanza shoots up a preschool, but then we don't follow up with actual legislation.  





Leo123 said:


> It's just a sample. Besides would you rather those 7 examples resulted in the victims' deaths?



A lot of those cases the person involved life wasn't in danger.   The ones that were only were in danger because bad guys can get guns so easily. 

But you balance the very few DGU's against the thousand of gun crimes, and it just doesn't add up.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 29, 2022)

2aguy said:


> The majority of gun murder victims are criminals. The majority of the remainder of gun murder victims are the family and associates of criminals.



Then you should have no problem with laws that make it a LOT harder for criminals to get guns.  

Oh, wait, you do. 

Background checks. - Against them.
Suing negligent gun sellers - against it.
Red flag laws  - Against it. 




2aguy said:


> Meanwhile, Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies, murders, beatings, stabbings, mass public shootings according to the Centers for Disease Control..... and serve to keep the government from murdering us...the way the european governments murdered 15 million innocent men, women and children between 1939 and 1945...after they banned and confiscated civilian guns.



Uh, yeah, War sucks..  Not sure what your point is.   People with guns didn't prevent that war, and there were plenty of guns in Europe before the war.  

There are nowhere near 1.1 million DGU's.


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## Hollie (Oct 29, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> The idea doesn't get much traction because even though most Americans support tougher gun laws, they aren't willing to fight for them.   We all get shocked when a Lanza shoots up a preschool, but then we don't follow up with actual legislation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The idea doesn't get much traction here because people generally see the dangers associated with leftists / socialists who want to strip away Constitutional rights.

People see the dangers of leftists / socialists enabling criminals and turning those criminals loose on the public while those leftists / socialists have decided that the public deserves to be brutalized.


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## 2aguy (Oct 29, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Then you should have no problem with laws that make it a LOT harder for criminals to get guns.
> 
> Oh, wait, you do.
> 
> ...




Background checks don't stop criminals, they make it harder for normal people to get guns.

Suing people who committed no crime?  Really?

Red flag laws that you will use to target normal gun owners while actual criminals roam free?

Sell that crap to biden voters.


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## 2aguy (Oct 29, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Then you should have no problem with laws that make it a LOT harder for criminals to get guns.
> 
> Oh, wait, you do.
> 
> ...




The 15 million were not killed in war activities, they were rounded up and murdered, by the governments of Europe under socialist occupation.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 29, 2022)

Hollie said:


> The idea doesn't get much traction here because people generally see the dangers associated with leftists / socialists who want to strip away Constitutional rights.
> 
> People see the dangers of leftists / socialists enabling criminals and turning those criminals loose on the public while those leftists / socialists have decided that the public deserves to be brutalized.



Most Americans want tougher gun laws.  That number would be higher if Americans realized how lax our gun laws are. 









						AP-NORC poll: Most in US say they want stricter gun laws
					

CHICAGO (AP) — Most U.S. adults want to see gun laws  made stricter and think gun violence  is increasing nationwide, according to a new poll that finds broad public support for a variety of gun restrictions, including many that are supported by majorities of Republicans and gun owners.




					apnews.com
				




_The poll by the University of Chicago Harris School of Public Policy and The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research shows 71% of Americans say gun laws should be stricter, including about half of Republicans, the vast majority of Democrats and a majority of those in gun-owning households.

The poll was conducted between July 28 and Aug. 1, after a string of deadly mass shootings — from a New York grocery store to a school in Texas and a July 4 parade in Illinois — and a 2020 spike in gun killings that have increased attention on the issue of gun violence. Overall, 8 in 10 Americans perceive that gun violence is increasing around the country, and about two-thirds say it’s increasing in their state, though less than half believe it’s increasing in their community, the poll shows._



2aguy said:


> Background checks don't stop criminals, they make it harder for normal people to get guns.



Hard core ammosexuals like you aren't "normal".  Normal people would have no problem with background checks because they'd come up clean. 

I compare the $11.00 application for a FOID Card compared to the practical economic colonoscopy I got when I applied for a mortgage on my Condo.  

Understandable.  The banks lost a lot of money when the housing market collapsed in 2008, and they want to make sure I was good for the loan.  

The gun industry isn't interested in only "normal" people getting guns... Because once you take out the fear of crime, most people sensibly wouldn't want one in their house. 

So the gun industry has a vested interest in bad guys getting guns. 



2aguy said:


> Suing people who committed no crime? Really?



Civil liability is separate from crime, dude.  You can be sued civilly for negligence without having committed a crime. 



2aguy said:


> Red flag laws that you will use to target normal gun owners while actual criminals roam free?



No, it's protect victims of domestic violence... like this lady. 









						Days after getting restraining order, woman shot dead by her child's father in Avondale: JPSO
					

Ronnika Richburg went to court and obtained a restraining order last week in an attempt to protect herself from the father of her child, records show.




					www.nola.com
				




and this lady...









						Victim asked twice for protection orders against man accused of killing her, her daughter
					

Lindsay Daum tried to ban Javier Acevedo from having a gun. A court in Larimer County denied a permanent protection order twice.




					www.9news.com


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## JoeB131 (Oct 29, 2022)

2aguy said:


> The 15 million were not killed in war activities, they were rounded up and murdered, by the governments of Europe under socialist occupation.



Which wouldn't have happened if there wasn't a war.


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## beautress (Oct 29, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> So you find 7 cases...
> 
> Compared to the 20,000 gun homicides, 70,000 gun injuries, 43,000 gun suicides and 400,000 gun crimes every year.


The fentynal peddlers who are gaily abusing the open border are murdering 120,000 of people per annum, ages prebirth - 49.
That would end if we re-elect President Trump only this time sans mules and sans bad voting policies based on favoritism. 
Do youthful people born in America matter? Because thrice the thousands more die of fentanyl poisoning than gun suicides.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 29, 2022)

beautress said:


> The fentynal peddlers who are gaily abusing the open border are murdering 120,000 of people per annum, ages prebirth - 49.
> That would end if we re-elect President Trump only this time sans mules and sans bad voting policies based on favoritism.
> Do youthful people born in America matter? Because thrice the thousands more die of fentanyl poisoning than gun suicides.



Hey, we should apply the same rules to fentanyl that we do to guns...  
Nobody dies of fentanyl unless they openly choose to take fentanyl... sounds like a personal problem to me.


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## Hollie (Oct 29, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Most Americans want tougher gun laws.  That number would be higher if Americans realized how lax our gun laws are.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Strange, that. Amidst the leftist defund the police, enable the criminals and promote crime policies, Americans have been buying guns at record setting rates due to the leftisexual fascination with promoting crime.

More gun laws are useless when leftists don't enforce laws. That, of course, is the leftist agenda. They want a disarmed population in furtherance of the socialist / communist regimes of the 20th century and the damage those regimes brought to their populations.

Leftist gun laws are intended to crush the law abiding population. Leftists aren't stopping the weekly killings taking place in the Lori Lightfoot dystopia, for just one example. Criminals with Firearms are a leftisexual fetish.


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## beautress (Oct 29, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Hey, we should apply the same rules to fentanyl that we do to guns...
> Nobody dies of fentanyl unless they openly choose to take fentanyl... sounds like a personal problem to me.


When the number rises because Great Pretender Biden gets paid back by the Drug Cartels through the foreign aid department of the Corrupt House that takes from the taxpayers and gives to the filthy greedy rich who work for China and pretend they are "normal." <barf>

I do have a problem with corruption that creeps brag on and hand out "I destroyed Trump" gold pens for lying their naughty butts off.


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## BasicHumanUnit (Oct 29, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Then you should have no problem with laws that make it a LOT harder for criminals to get guns.



Problem is.....your kind considers law abiding citizens the criminals and the real criminals as useful tools for your agendas


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## 2aguy (Oct 29, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Most Americans want tougher gun laws.  That number would be higher if Americans realized how lax our gun laws are.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Moron......they poll people who have no idea what the gun laws are or how they would work........


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## 2aguy (Oct 29, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Which wouldn't have happened if there wasn't a war.




They rounded up civilians, in occupied countries......countries that were no longer in combat with them.   They rounded up 15 million people all around Europe and murdered them.


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## 2aguy (Oct 29, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Most Americans want tougher gun laws.  That number would be higher if Americans realized how lax our gun laws are.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Nope......what you have there is a failure of the police....Red Flag laws wouldn't have stopped them, those guys should have been in prison....

And instead of being able to get a gun for herself, the odds are she couldn't buy her own gun for when the cops weren't around to protect her.


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## 2aguy (Oct 29, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Most Americans want tougher gun laws.  That number would be higher if Americans realized how lax our gun laws are.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




In the second link, in the fucking title it states the woman asked for a protective order twice and was turned down...in the fucking title you doofus.......your God, "Government," failed her.....and if she had had a gun she could have protected herself and let the police simply collect the dead assholes body.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 30, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Strange, that. Amidst the leftist defund the police, enable the criminals and promote crime policies, Americans have been buying guns at record setting rates due to the leftisexual fascination with promoting crime.



Except no one defunded the Police.  In fact, we've increased funding to law enforcement every year.  

Yes, Americans buy guns, but it's mostly that 3% of the population where gun ownership is an average of 17 guns per household.  









						Study: 3% of America Owns 50% of the Country’s Guns
					

While percentage who own guns has slightly decreased.



					www.thedailybeast.com
				






Hollie said:


> More gun laws are useless when leftists don't enforce laws. That, of course, is the leftist agenda. They want a disarmed population in furtherance of the socialist / communist regimes of the 20th century and the damage those regimes brought to their populations.



The question is, who isn't enforcing the laws.  I already cited the article that the ATF under Trump had numerous incidents of the same gun stores violating the sale of guns to straw buyers or other violations, and didn't have their licences pulled. 



Hollie said:


> Leftist gun laws are intended to crush the law abiding population. Leftists aren't stopping the weekly killings taking place in the Lori Lightfoot dystopia, for just one example. Criminals with Firearms are a leftisexual fetish.



Not sure how you can "stop" it when the gun industry keeps flooding Chicago with guns, fighting gun laws in Chicago in court.  It would be like if I broke both of your legs and then mocked you for not running a marathon.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 30, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Moron......they poll people who have no idea what the gun laws are or how they would work........



Most Americans have no idea how lax our gun laws are. 

Heck, even I was horrified when I realized how easy it was to get a FOID card.  And I follow this issue.  



2aguy said:


> They rounded up civilians, in occupied countries......countries that were no longer in combat with them. They rounded up 15 million people all around Europe and murdered them.



More like 12 million....  and most of those people were turned in by their neighbors.   What you really saw in Nazi Germany is that when you demonize minorities and gays, it's a short trip to exterminating them.    And which party demonizes minorities and gays today?  

Guns, of course, would make no difference in such an equation.  They had lots of guns during the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, and killed a whopping 17 Nazis... before 50,000 were either killed on the spot or deported to the camps to be killed. 



2aguy said:


> Nope......what you have there is a failure of the police....Red Flag laws wouldn't have stopped them, those guys should have been in prison....
> 
> And instead of being able to get a gun for herself, the odds are she couldn't buy her own gun for when the cops weren't around to protect her.



We don't have room to put everyone in prison you'd like to put in prison. 
We lock up 2 million people. 
We have another 7 million on probation, parole, or bail. 
We have 100 million Americans with a police record.  

Putting them all in jail is not an option. 
Taking their guns is. 

The rest of the world has figured this out. 



2aguy said:


> In the second link, in the fucking title it states the woman asked for a protective order twice and was turned down...in the fucking title you doofus.......your God, "Government," failed her.....and if she had had a gun she could have protected herself and let the police simply collect the dead assholes body.



Yes, because a non-violent person with a gun is ALWAYS going to out shoot a violent person with a gun.


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## Hollie (Oct 30, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Except no one defunded the Police.  In fact, we've increased funding to law enforcement every year.
> 
> Yes, Americans buy guns, but it's mostly that 3% of the population where gun ownership is an average of 17 guns per household.
> 
> ...



''no one defunded the police''?

You should email the city of Seattle and let then know about your conspiracy theory. The following is just one example but, guy, pay attention. 









						Seattle cuts police department budget by nearly 17%
					

Mayor Jenny Durkan said these "thoughtful reductions" will help "scale up alternatives to policing."




					www.nbcnews.com
				




Gee whiz. That ''Summer of Love'' festival hosted by BLM was such a success.

''Mayor Jenny Durkan said these "thoughtful reductions" will help "scale up alternatives to policing."

How nice. Those ''thoughtful reductions'' had consequences as the criminals were enabled. 









						Seattle's crime surge spreads statewide thanks to Democrats' progressive policies
					

Thanks to a Democratic legislature that codified the radical defund police proposals into laws, plus light-on-crime judges, the crime surge hitting Seattle is spreading across the state.




					www.foxnews.com


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## JoeB131 (Oct 30, 2022)

Hollie said:


> 'no one defunded the police''?
> 
> You should email the city of Seattle and let then know about your conspiracy theory. The following is just one example but, guy, pay attention.



It's one poor example. 









						Despite 'defunding' claims, police funding has increased in many US cities
					

While some politicians say crime is up because Democrats defunded police, an ABC analysis shows that out of 109 cities examined, most have increased their police budgets.




					abcnews.go.com
				




_ABC Owned Television Stations examined the budgets of more than 100 cities and counties and found that 83% are spending at least 2% more on police in 2022 than in 2019.

Of the 109 budgets analyzed, only eight agencies cut police funds by more than 2%, while 91 agencies increased law enforcement funding by at least 2%.

In 49 cities or counties, police funding has increased by more than 10%._

This becomes even more amazing when you realize that state and city budgets were devastated by Covid-19 (AKA Trump Plague) reducing revenues, and forcing other agencies to cut services. 









						States and cities forced to cut both jobs, services
					

Jobs with state and city governments are usually a source of stability in the U.S. economy, but the financial devastation wrought by the coronavirus pandemic has forced cuts that will reduce public services -- from schools to trash pickup.




					www.arkansasonline.com


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## Hollie (Oct 30, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> It's one poor example.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's one poor example, intended to deflect. Notice what you posted was dated Oct. 2022. Did you really think such dishonest tactics would go unnoticed?


Let's review the leftisexual policies of defund the police which you insist didn't happen.










						Seattle's mayor is set to sign a new city budget cutting the police department's funding by 18% | CNN
					

Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan says she will sign a city government budget that includes an 18% cut to the police department budget.




					www.cnn.com
				




Note the date. November, 2020.



The result?









						Report: Seattle's violent crime rate reached 14-year high in 2021, mayor responds
					

In its 2021 year-end crime report, Seattle Police reported that violent crime in the city has increased by 20% compared to 2020-- which is a 14-year high.




					www.q13fox.com
				




Note the date. 2021.


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## Hollie (Oct 30, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> It's one poor example.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I see. Trump was responsible for covid thus Trump was responsible for leftisexuals defunding police. 


Thus is the upside down world of the diseased, leftisexual mind.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 30, 2022)

Hollie said:


> That's one poor example, intended to deflect. Notice what you posted was dated Oct. 2022. Did you really think such dishonest tactics would go unnoticed?



No, I expect you to backpedal, take things out of context, and not really understand the problem.  



Hollie said:


> I see. Trump was responsible for covid thus Trump was responsible for leftisexuals defunding police.



Yes, Trump was completely responsible for Covid through his failed response, and everything that followed.  

It's the common tactic. 
Republicans fuck things up.
Democrats get elected to fix what Republicans fucked up.
Republicans bitch that Democrats haven't fixed what they fucked up fast enough.


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## Blues Man (Oct 30, 2022)

The entire good guy with a gun argument is 100% irrelevant.

No citizen who legally and responsibly owns firearms is obligated to come to the aid of the public.


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## Hollie (Oct 30, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> No, I expect you to backpedal, take things out of context, and not really understand the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I expected your TDS to cloud your judgment. Appeals to TDS define the debilitating disease that afflicts leftisexuals.

I get it. You're unwilling and unable to accept responsibility for your actions. TDS is a child-like response to being held accountable.

How strange that leftists, you claim, were elected to ''fix'' low inflation, a largely secure border, rising middle class wages, low gas prices and low crime rates.

Leftists ''fixed'' that with raging inflation, an open border, crashing middle class wages, high gas prices, soaring crime rates and a recession.

Why aren't leftist politicians running their campaigns on such terrific accomplishments?


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## Hollie (Oct 30, 2022)

Texas mom jumps into action when burglar breaks into home, opens fire on suspect
					

Texas mom shot a suspected home burglar from a locked bedroom where she and her children were located. The suspect was located by authorities with a gunshot wound and booked.




					www.foxnews.com


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## miketx (Oct 30, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> You mean the gun industry unethically told people "Biden is going to take your guns".
> 
> Right after "Obama's gonna take your guns."
> 
> ...


So your man beto didn't say was gonna take our guns? Lying pos.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 30, 2022)

Hollie said:


> How strange that leftists, you claim, were elected to ''fix'' low inflation, a largely secure border, rising middle class wages, low gas prices and low crime rates.



We didn't have to fix them, they didn't exist.  

Crime rates hit record highs in 2020.    The border wasn't secure.   

As for gas prices, they were at 2.60 a gallon in 2019...  They dropped due to Covid flatlining demand.  

I know you Trump Cultists like to pretend 2020 didn't happen.


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## Hollie (Oct 30, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> We didn't have to fix them, they didn't exist.
> 
> Crime rates hit record highs in 2020.    The border wasn't secure.
> 
> ...


Strange how the TDS afflicted tend to get befuddled about what they post.

In post #32 you wrote, ''Democrats get elected to fix what Republicans fucked up.''.

How strange that leftist fixes were utter disasters.

 leftists, you claim, were elected to ''fix'' low inflation, a largely secure border, rising middle class wages, low gas prices and low crime rates that existed during the Trump administration.... he's a republican, BTW.

Leftists ''fixed'' that with raging inflation, an open border, crashing middle class wages, high gas prices, soaring crime rates and a recession.

Leftist fixing anything more will make their existing fixes even worse.


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## Hollie (Oct 30, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> We didn't have to fix them, they didn't exist.
> 
> Crime rates hit record highs in 2020.    The border wasn't secure.
> 
> ...


Do you mean crime rates increased in 2020 when leftist mayors and governors allowed BLM to trash, burn and loot cities?

I think President Trump offered help that leftists refused. 

Yeah. Like this. 









						Trump offers to send National Guard to Portland to quell protest violence
					

President Trump said Saturday that he was prepared to once again send in National Guard troops to cities if asked, following the 86th consecutive night of chaos in Portland, Oregon. “Another …




					nypost.com
				





I know you leftists like to pretend that you're not responsible for the results of your ideology but that's just being childish and naive.


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## 2aguy (Oct 30, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Most Americans have no idea how lax our gun laws are.
> 
> Heck, even I was horrified when I realized how easy it was to get a FOID card.  And I follow this issue.
> 
> ...




Our gun laws aren't lax.....the democrat party releasing violent criminals is the problem.   The democrat party destroying the police is the problem.

We don't have to lock up everyone, just the violent criminals who use guns to shoot people...we have more than enough prison cells for them....but the democrats just will not keep them locked up.

The Jews didn't have guns in the Warsaw Ghetto....they had a tiny number of them and they still held off the Germans.

50,000 unarmed Jews vs. a tiny number of Germans...Germans with guns...

*The Warsaw Ghetto uprising......had they actually been as well armed as the Swiss, had all the peoples in Europe been as well armed as the Swiss, the Germans could never have held the territory they captured......that is what armed citizens do...they discourage aggression...

There were 13,000 Jews killed in the uprising...unarmed......if those 13,000 had rifles, the outcome would have been a lot worse for the Germans.....and had that taken place in every country......World War 2 would have been very different...

A German force was tiny compared to 50,000 Jews.....and yet because they were unarmed...that tiny German force was able to destroy them...*

By his own words, Stroop reported that after he took command on 19 April 1943 the forces at his disposal totaled 31 officers and 1,262 men:[51]

Warsaw Ghetto Uprising - Wikipedia


Marek Edelman, who was the only surviving uprising commander from the left-wing ŻOB, stated that the ŻOB had 220 fighters and each was armed with a handgun, grenades, and Molotov cocktails. His organization had three rifles in each area, as well as two land mines and one submachine gun.[20][21][22][23] Due to its socialist leanings, the Soviets promoted the actions of ŻOB as the dominant or only party in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, a view often adopted by secondary sources in the West.[18]

----

*Death toll[edit]*



Stroop Report original caption: "Bandits jump to escape capture." A man leaps to his death from the top story window of an apartment block. Taken at 23 and 25 Niska Street[67]



Plaque commemorating Home Armysoldiers - Eugeniusz Morawski ps. "Młodek" and Józef Wilk ps. "Orlik" killed during the Ghetto Action on the wall Church of St. John of God at ul. Bonifraterska 12 in Warsaw.
13,000 Jews were killed in the ghetto during the uprising (some 6,000 among them were burnt alive or died from smoke inhalation). Of the remaining 50,000 residents, most were captured and shipped to concentration and extermination camps, in particular to Treblinka.

Jürgen Stroop's internal SS daily report for Friedrich Krüger, written on 16 May 1943, stated:

180 Jews, bandits and sub-humans, were destroyed. The former Jewish quarter of Warsaw is no longer in existence. The large-scale action was terminated at 20:15 hours by blowing up the Warsaw Synagogue. ... Total number of Jews dealt with 56,065, including both Jews caught and Jews whose extermination can be proved. ... Apart from 8 buildings (police barracks, hospital, and accommodations for housing working-parties) the former Ghetto is completely destroyed. Only the dividing walls are left standing where no explosions were carried out.[42]

According to the casualty lists in Stroop's report, German forces suffered a total of 110 casualties – 17 dead (of whom 16 were killed in action) and 93 injured – of whom 101 are listed by name, including over 60 members of the Waffen-SS. These figures did not include Jewish collaborators, but did include the "Trawniki men" and Polish police under his command. The real number of German losses, however, may be well higher (the Germans suffered about 300 casualties by Edelman's estimate). For propaganda purposes, the official announcement claimed the German casualties to be only a few wounded, while propaganda bulletins of the Polish Underground Stateannounced that hundreds of occupiers had been killed in the fighting.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Oct 30, 2022)

Damn!  They handcuffed that black man and he cooperated, knowing the cops were just taking precautions and conducting and investigation and he didn't fight them and everything turned out ok.  We'll...I'll...just...be...damned!


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## Man of Ethics (Oct 31, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> So you find 7 cases...
> 
> Compared to the 20,000 gun homicides, 70,000 gun injuries, 43,000 gun suicides and 400,000 gun crimes every year.


Agree 100%.  Those who support the Second Amendment enable tens of thousands of murders and suicides each year.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 31, 2022)

Hollie said:


> In post #32 you wrote, ''Democrats get elected to fix what Republicans fucked up.''.
> 
> How strange that leftist fixes were utter disasters.



Not really.  When Bill Clinton got elected, we had high unemployment.  When he left we had low unemployment, and the absolute worst thing we had to worry about was whether he lied about getting a blow job. 

When Barak Obama got elected, we had double digit unemployment, a broken stock market, etc.   When he left, we had low unemployment and good economic times.  Trump managed to fuck that all up. 

When Biden got elected, we were losing 4000 people a day to Covid, we were still having riots in the streets, and unemployment was at 6%.  Trump had managed to be the first president since Herbert Hoover to post a net jobs loss.  



Hollie said:


> leftists, you claim, were elected to ''fix'' low inflation, a largely secure border, rising middle class wages, low gas prices and low crime rates that existed during the Trump administration.... he's a republican, BTW.



No, they were elected to fix high unemployment, multiple deaths from Covid and fractured race relations.  You know REAL problems.  



Hollie said:


> Do you mean crime rates increased in 2020 when leftist mayors and governors allowed BLM to trash, burn and loot cities?



You mean the riots that were going to happen, regardless.  We had 10 years to avoid the BLM riots.  We failed to do so as a country.  
We had 10 years of BLM and others peacefully protesting and working for reform.  

Obama reached consent decrees with multiple cities to reform their police departments, that were immediately thrown out by Trump and Sessions when they got into office  
Trump gave a speech where he endorsed police brutality.  It was so bad numerous police chiefs had to condemn it.  

THAT'S WHY YOU HAD RIOTS.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 31, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Our gun laws aren't lax.....the democrat party releasing violent criminals is the problem. The democrat party destroying the police is the problem.
> 
> We don't have to lock up everyone, just the violent criminals who use guns to shoot people...we have more than enough prison cells for them....but the democrats just will not keep them locked up.



We lock up 2 million people in this country.  If locking people up prevented crime, we'd be the safest country in the industrialized world.  Instead, when tourists come to America from Japan and Europe, they have to be given instructions on how NOT to be a crime victim in America.


----------



## Hollie (Oct 31, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Not really.  When Bill Clinton got elected, we had high unemployment.  When he left we had low unemployment, and the absolute worst thing we had to worry about was whether he lied about getting a blow job.
> 
> When Barak Obama got elected, we had double digit unemployment, a broken stock market, etc.   When he left, we had low unemployment and good economic times.  Trump managed to fuck that all up.
> 
> ...


Yeah, it was lots of fun. Portland was the riot capitol of the west coast. Keftusts gave BLM a free hand to burn the cities. Cackling kamala vowed to assist with the bail for rioters. 


President Trump made repeated offers to send in the National Guard but those offered were refused. 


Inflation was at 1.8% when Trump left office, Dems made quick work to ramp that up, 









						Inflation has surged 13% since President Biden took office: economist
					

“American consumers are falling way behind,” an economist told The Post.




					nypost.com


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 31, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> We lock up 2 million people in this country.  If locking people up prevented crime, we'd be the safest country in the industrialized world.  Instead, when tourists come to America from Japan and Europe, they have to be given instructions on how NOT to be a crime victim in America.




And then the democrat party releases the most violent criminals over and over again....it doesn't matter if you only lock them up for a day, you idiot.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 31, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> We lock up 2 million people in this country.  If locking people up prevented crime, we'd be the safest country in the industrialized world.  Instead, when tourists come to America from Japan and Europe, they have to be given instructions on how NOT to be a crime victim in America.




And Americans like Briner have to learn how not to be criminals in Russia....you idiot.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Oct 31, 2022)

“Good Guys With Guns”

…is a myth.

“The latest data show that people use guns for self-defense only rarely. According to a Harvard University analysis of figures from the National Crime Victimization Survey, people defended themselves with a gun in nearly 0.9 percent of crimes from 2007 to 2011.”









						How Often Do People Use Guns In Self-Defense?
					

Many gun owners say the primary reason they own a firearm is self-defense. But for years, experts have been starkly divided over how often people actually use guns for this purpose.




					www.npr.org


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Oct 31, 2022)

Leo123 said:


>


The fact that guns are rarely used in lawful self-defense doesn’t mean that citizens should be prevented from possessing guns for that purpose.

Citizens aren’t required to ‘justify’ the exercising of a fundamental right as a ‘prerequisite’ to indeed do so.

Consequently, conservatives need to stop lying about guns being used in self-defense in some pathetic effort to ‘justify’ the carrying of concealed firearms.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 31, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> “Good Guys With Guns”
> …is a myth.
> “The latest data show that people use guns for self-defense only rarely. According to a Harvard University analysis of figures from the National Crime Victimization Survey, people defended themselves with a gun in nearly 0.9 percent of crimes from 2007 to 2011.”
> 
> ...


If 100,000 defensive gun uses per year is "rare", what are ~10,000 murders and ~25,000 suicides?
Very rare?
Exceptionally rare?


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Oct 31, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Sales of firearms were setting records because leftists were enabling violent criminals while trying to crush the rights of law-abiding citizens.
> 
> Kinda' reads like leftism is its own worst enemy.


This is a lie.

‘Leftists’ neither ‘enable’ violent criminals nor do they seek to ‘crush’ the rights of citizens – that’s the sole purview of the right.

Liberals support Second Amendment jurisprudence, do not advocate ‘disarming’ Americans, and possess guns themselves for lawful self-defense.

This is typical of the lies and demagoguery propagated by the dishonest right.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 31, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> ‘Leftists’ neither ‘enable’ violent criminals nor do they seek to ‘crush’ the rights of citizens – that’s the sole purview of the right.
> Liberals support Second Amendment jurisprudence, do not advocate ‘disarming’ Americans, and possess guns themselves for lawful self-defense.


This is typical of the lies and demagoguery propagated by the dishonest left.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Oct 31, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> You mean the gun industry unethically told people "Biden is going to take your guns".
> 
> Right after "Obama's gonna take your guns."
> 
> ...


Correct.

For decades conservatives have lied about guns being ‘banned’ and ‘confiscated’ during Democratic administrations – and after all that time guns were neither ‘banned’ nor ‘confiscated.’

Nothing but lies and demagoguery from the right intended to keep the Republican base ignorant, frightened, and going to the polls.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 31, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> For decades conservatives have lied about guns being ‘banned’ and ‘confiscated’ during Democratic administrations ....


This can only be true if the right knows Democrats are lying about their stated intentions re: firearms.
Why would Democrats lie about this?


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Oct 31, 2022)

Hollie said:


> You mean right after threats from leftist hacks who told us about ''assault weapons'' bans, bans on ammunition magazines that would make thousands of commonly owned types of Firearms illegal or right after Beto O'rourke types threatened to confiscate Firearms?
> 
> That idea didn't get much traction when leftist hacks decided to support and enable violent criminals, when leftist hacks refused to prosecute criminals and when leftist hacks thought that letting career criminals loose to kill and maim the public was a good idea.
> 
> ...


Those who bought guns motivated by ‘fear of violence’ did so the consequence of an unwarranted fear; and the ‘violence’ they perceived had nothing to do with Democrats or Democratic policies.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 31, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Those who bought guns motivated by ‘fear of violence’ did so the consequence of an unwarranted fear; and the ‘violence’ they perceived had nothing to do with Democrats or Democratic policies.


This can only be true if they knew Democrats are lying about their stated intentions re: firearms.
Why would Democrats lie about this?


----------



## Blues Man (Oct 31, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> “Good Guys With Guns”
> 
> …is a myth.
> 
> ...


What you fail to understand is that if a crime never occurred because a potential victim pulled a gun then no crime was actually committed and therefore not counted in crime statistics


----------



## Blues Man (Oct 31, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Those who bought guns motivated by ‘fear of violence’ did so the consequence of an unwarranted fear; and the ‘violence’ they perceived had nothing to do with Democrats or Democratic policies.


yes and only those of you fortunate enough never to have been the victim of a violent crime are so naïve as to think that violence doesn't exist.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Oct 31, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> The idea doesn't get much traction because even though most Americans support tougher gun laws, they aren't willing to fight for them.


That and the tyranny of Republican minority rule.

Although a majority of Americans support tougher gun laws, such legislation can’t be enacted because Congress isn’t representative of the will of the majority of the people the consequence of gerrymandering, voter suppression, and the disenfranchisement of minority voters in Republican-controlled states.


----------



## Blues Man (Oct 31, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> That and the tyranny of Republican minority rule.
> 
> Although a majority of Americans support tougher gun laws, such legislation can’t be enacted because Congress isn’t representative of the will of the majority of the people the consequence of gerrymandering, voter suppression, and the disenfranchisement of minority voters in Republican-controlled states.


The government refuses to enforce gun laws and that is the reason we have the gun crimes we do


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 31, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Although a majority of Americans support tougher gun laws...


This fails as an appeal to popularity fallacy.


C_Clayton_Jones said:


> such legislation can’t be enacted because Congress isn’t representative of the will of the majority of the people the consequence of gerrymandering,...


This is a lie, as there's no gerrymandering in the senate


C_Clayton_Jones said:


> voter suppression, and the disenfranchisement of minority voters in Republican-controlled states.


A statement you know is false.


----------



## Hollie (Oct 31, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> This is a lie.
> 
> ‘Leftists’ neither ‘enable’ violent criminals nor do they seek to ‘crush’ the rights of citizens – that’s the sole purview of the right.
> 
> ...


This is a lie. 

Leftists enable criminals with policies that decriminalize many crimes.

Lets look at the looming disaster in leftist Illinois, shall we?









						Top Democratic prosecutors revolt against criminal justice reform law they say will 'destroy' Illinois
					

A Democratic state’s attorney in the Chicago-area is among many prosecutors suing the Illinois governor to stop a law he says will “destroy the criminal justice system” in his state.




					www.foxnews.com
				










So yeah, leftists have decided that innocuous discretions such as second-degree murder and arson are really not such a big deal.


Liberals support second amendment jurisprudence? 

No kidding? Pass that on to the governors and mayors of leftist cities who release career criminals back onto the streets. 









						Why the real solution to gun crime is improving gun-related convictions
					

In Illinois, the clearance rate (meaning the percentage of cases that result in an arrest) for gun crimes short of murder is less than 33 percent




					nypost.com
				




You won’t be surprised to learn that more than 80 percent of the murderers in New York City have prior arrest records. (So do about 80 percent of the victims.) As in most of the rest of the country, these criminals typically have at least one prior conviction, and, in many cases, a prior conviction for a violent crime. In Chicago, 87 percent of the killers have police records, with an average of 12 arrests by the time they are brought in for murder. In Baltimore, the average killer has 9.3 prior arrests, and a third of the murderers are on probation when they kill. 



Note the locations cited: New York, Chicago, Baltimore.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 31, 2022)

Hollie said:


> This is a lie.


If he coudl not lie, he would be silent.


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 31, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> yes and only those of you fortunate enough never to have been the victim of a violent crime are so naïve as to think that violence doesn't exist.


The only response to violence is a gun? I am 100% for 2nd Amendment rights, but some people seem:
A) Incredibly incapable physically
B) Deathly afraid of the world ALL the time


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Oct 31, 2022)

Man of Ethics said:


> Agree 100%.  Those who support the Second Amendment enable tens of thousands of murders and suicides each year.


Wrong.

That’s not what the poster said.

Indeed, Second Amendment caselaw reaffirms the role of government to regulate firearms consistent with Second Amendment jurisprudence, that the Second Amendment right is neither ‘unlimited’ nor ‘absolute,’ that the Second Amendment right is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose, and that government has the authority to impose conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 31, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Indeed, Second Amendment caselaw reaffirms the role of government to regulate firearms consistent with Second Amendment jurisprudence...


Interesting.
According to the jurisprudence, what's the test to see if a regulation or restriction violates the 2nd?
Hint:  
When the Second Amendment’s plain text covers an individual’s conduct, the Constitution presumptively protects that conduct.

Don't worry - we all know you won't answer truthfully.


----------



## Hollie (Oct 31, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Those who bought guns motivated by ‘fear of violence’ did so the consequence of an unwarranted fear; and the ‘violence’ they perceived had nothing to do with Democrats or Democratic policies.


This fails an an _appeal_ _to_ _generalization_ rule.



You seem to be burdened by the leftist disease of denialism. It's really clear that leftist 'defund the police" and 'enable criminals' has been a real disaster.










						As Crime Soars, Democratic Voters Turn on Left-Wing Prosecutors - Washington Free Beacon
					

Democratic voters are turning on left-wing prosecutors and congressional candidates amid a nationwide crime surge.




					freebeacon.com
				




Democratic voters are turning on left-wing prosecutors and congressional candidates amid a nationwide crime surge.

Late last month, Maryland voters ousted Baltimore state’s attorney Marilyn Mosby (D.), who backed decarceration and defunding police even as the city’s homicide rate skyrocketed. Mosby was only the latest "reform-minded" prosecutor to get the boot. San Francisco residents removed District Attorney Chesa Boudin (D.) in June after he crusaded against policing and prisons as "failed responses" to crime. Los Angeles County district attorney George Gascón (D.), who has supported "shrinking the size and the role of policing," is on the verge of a recall.


It's just a party in New York.








						NYC subway shove suspect identified as career criminal with more than a dozen arrests
					

Police in New York City have arrested the suspect allegedly seen on video pushing another man onto subway tracks in Brooklyn, leaving him with physical injuries.




					www.foxnews.com
				




The New York City Police Department has arrested a career criminal following an incident in which a 32-year-old man was seen on video being violently shoved onto subway tracks in Brooklyn




Not to worry. The career criminals turned loose on the public by leftist policies will continue to kill and maim.


----------



## Hollie (Oct 31, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> That and the tyranny of Republican minority rule.
> 
> Although a majority of Americans support tougher gun laws, such legislation can’t be enacted because Congress isn’t representative of the will of the majority of the people the consequence of gerrymandering, voter suppression, and the disenfranchisement of minority voters in Republican-controlled states.



Republican minority rule?

Have you checked the news? Dems control the White House with majorities in the Senate and House.

You didn't know that?


----------



## Hollie (Oct 31, 2022)

Man pulls up to his house, spots burglar taking items from it. Suspect allegedly charges at homeowner, who's trying to hold him — so homeowner shoots him.
					

A homeowner in Mobile, Alabama, pulled up to his house last week and spotted a burglar taking items from the residence and its detached garage, WALA-TV reported.What happened next?Police told the station the homeowner tried to hold the burglar — but the suspect got aggressive and charged at the...




					www.theblaze.com
				




Police told the station the homeowner tried to hold the burglar — but the suspect got aggressive and charged at the homeowner.

With that, the homeowner shot the suspect, WALA said, adding that the incident took place around 6:40 p.m. Tuesday in the 100 block of North Ann Street.

After getting treatment for a gunshot wound, police arrested Johnny Bullard Jr., 42, and took him to Mobile County Metro Jail, the station said.

Bullard was charged with third-degree burglary, and jail records indicate he was still behind bars as of Monday afternoon.

Police said the homeowner who pulled the trigger won't be charged at this time and that people have a right under state law to defend themselves, WALA reported.

Anything else?​


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 1, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Yeah, it was lots of fun. Portland was the riot capitol of the west coast. Keftusts gave BLM a free hand to burn the cities. Cackling kamala vowed to assist with the bail for rioters.



You mean they didn't make protests (mostly peaceful) over police brutality worse by employing more police brutality.   That was actually... kind of sensible.  

The point to avoid this was not when angry people were already on the street.  The point to avoid this was before that happened by fixing the police departments. 

Trump undid all the efforts that Obama started to reform the police, and openly encouraged police misconduct. 

That's why you had riots.  Not because what was done to George Floyd was more egregious than what was done to Tamir Rice or Laquan McDonald or Alton Sterling or Mike Brown or Sandra Bland... but because people had just had enough of it. 




Hollie said:


> President Trump made repeated offers to send in the National Guard but those offered were refused.



Actually, no.  The National Guard is activated by the state.  Which was done in November 2020.  









						Oregon National Guard deploys to assist with protests in Portland on Wednesday
					

Oregon Gov. Kate Brown activated the National Guard to assist local law enforcement in responding to protest violence in downtown Portland Wednesday night.



					www.opb.org
				




The problem with activating the Guard is that the Guard really isn't a substitute for the police.  

They spend about one day a year on civil disturbance training. (Or at least that's what they did when I was in the IL Guard in the 80's). If you think the police are too timid, they have nothing on the Guard, who live in mortal terror of another Kent State.  

When I was in, we had this one major who was giving the class on what we could and couldn't do.  And the one thing he emphasized that stuck with me.  

"Those are not the enemy out there.   They are your fellow citizens, they are damned angry about something and they have every right to be!"  



Hollie said:


> Inflation was at 1.8% when Trump left office, Dems made quick work to ramp that up,



Um, yeah, because Trump gave us the worst recession in 80 years!  Holy Shit, do you people even hear yourselves.   I'm surprised you didn't try to claim all his Covid Deaths opened up job opportunities.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 1, 2022)

Hollie said:


> This is a lie.
> 
> Leftists enable criminals with policies that decriminalize many crimes.
> 
> Lets look at the looming disaster in leftist Illinois, shall we?



Again, if you can get bail for one of these offenses, then you aren't really a danger, are you? 

If prosecutors think that the person is a danger or a flight risk, they can ask the judge for remand until trial.  

Bail doesn't prevent crime, it penalizes poverty.  



Hollie said:


> So yeah, leftists have decided that innocuous discretions such as second-degree murder and arson are really not such a big deal.
> 
> 
> Liberals support second amendment jurisprudence?
> ...



Uh, this is where you are confused.  Until a court of law finds you guilty of second degree murder or arson, you are considered innocent.  Therefore, the government has no cause to hold you until you are found guilty by a court.  

The problem with bail in this country, was that even though 30% of criminal charges are eventually dismissed, people were being held in jail for months or even years waiting for their court dates.  

What is crazy is that a poor kid who stole a backpack might spend years in jail because he can't get bail, but a well-off kid who commits second degree murder can get bail.  That's the current system.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 1, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> That and the tyranny of Republican minority rule.
> 
> Although a majority of Americans support tougher gun laws, such legislation can’t be enacted because Congress isn’t representative of the will of the majority of the people the consequence of gerrymandering, voter suppression, and the disenfranchisement of minority voters in Republican-controlled states.



No, they don’t support tougher gun laws.   The people polled on gun laws do not understand the issues involved……if they did 
, they would answer the poll question differently.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 1, 2022)

Hollie said:


> This is a lie.
> 
> Leftists enable criminals with policies that decriminalize many crimes.
> 
> ...



And the other 20% are young people on their way to becoming repeat offenders………….young gang members starting their careers as violent criminals.


----------



## Hollie (Nov 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> You mean they didn't make protests (mostly peaceful) over police brutality worse by employing more police brutality.   That was actually... kind of sensible.
> 
> The point to avoid this was not when angry people were already on the street.  The point to avoid this was before that happened by fixing the police departments.
> 
> ...


You mean leftists enabled and furthered riots and looting. 

This is so typical of the malformed leftist psyche. Leftists encouraged rioting and looting and then made every attempt deny responsibility. The whole ''sumner of love'' notion was a total capitulation to morons who were given a free hand by thieves, anarchists and the mentally feeble. 


Your debilitating TDS has you slathering more nonsense. Yes, predident Trump haunts your world. Your every thought is guided by the shadow of Trump. 

However, the leftist, ''I blame Trump'' syndrome requires therapy for you folks. 

You have leftist policies to thank for the failed Biden economy. Don't believe that anyone else is responsible for your failures,


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 1, 2022)

Hollie said:


> You mean leftists enabled and furthered riots and looting.
> 
> This is so typical of the malformed leftist psyche. Leftists encouraged rioting and looting and then made every attempt deny responsibility. The whole ''sumner of love'' notion was a total capitulation to morons who were given a free hand by thieves, anarchists and the mentally feeble.



Uh, no, sorry, sweetie... those riots happened because we didn't address the issue of racist cops murdering black people. 
That's why those riots happened. 
You were not going to make them less bad by murdering more black people.  

Now, frankly, it would have been nice if we addressed the issue when Colin took a knee, rather than destroying the poor man's career. 

But we didn't.  We did what we always do... let the problem fester until their is an inciting incident, and only care when they threaten to break white people's stuff.  



Hollie said:


> Your debilitating TDS has you slathering more nonsense. Yes, predident Trump haunts your world. Your every thought is guided by the shadow of Trump.
> 
> However, the leftist, ''I blame Trump'' syndrome requires therapy for you folks.



Uh, yeah. Massive deaths, lockdowns, riots, double digit unemployment...   I would have a hard time identifying a president whose been more devastating than Trump.  Maybe James Buchanan.  



Hollie said:


> You have leftist policies to thank for the failed Biden economy. Don't believe that anyone else is responsible for your failures,



The last two years have been the best years of my life economically.  I increased my salary substantially, my side business is doing so much better than it was under Trump, and I was even able to afford an upgrade in my home.  Oh, I guess gas prices would bother me if I owned a big old gas-guzzling SUV, but I have a nice, practical car that gets good gas mileage.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 1, 2022)

Hollie said:


> You mean leftists enabled and furthered riots and looting.
> 
> This is so typical of the malformed leftist psyche. Leftists encouraged rioting and looting and then made every attempt deny responsibility. The whole ''sumner of love'' notion was a total capitulation to morons who were given a free hand by thieves, anarchists and the mentally feeble.
> 
> ...






Exactly, the democrat party used blm and antifa for 7 months to burn, loot and murder in black neighborhoods in order to hurt Trump in the election....that is the truth, joe knows it, and lies in order to protect the democrat party, the party of slave owning, civil war, misogyny, and hate.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 1, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Exactly, the democrat party used blm and antifa for 7 months to burn, loot and murder in black neighborhoods in order to hurt Trump in the election....that is the truth, joe knows it, and lies in order to protect the democrat party, the party of slave owning, civil war, misogyny, and hate.



Actually, most of the Demonstrations were over by August. 
Most of the demonstrations were peaceful. 
Only about 50 people died as a result of BLM demonstrations, most of them demonstrators killed by police. 
400,000 people died of Covid.  65 million lost their jobs.  That's why Trump got voted out of office.


----------



## Hollie (Nov 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Uh, no, sorry, sweetie... those riots happened because we didn't address the issue of racist cops murdering black people.
> That's why those riots happened.
> You were not going to make them less bad by murdering more black people.
> 
> ...


Umm, sorry pumpkin. BLM riots were about anarchy and looting. 

The motivations of BLM'ers wasn't some ''I'm oppressed by
 the man', nonsense as you silly hippies try to represent. Let go of the 1960's.... dude. 

Your BLM heroes were wannabe socialists and among the more physically repulsive people on the planet. 






These are your heroes.


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 1, 2022)

Unkotare said:


> The only response to violence is a gun? I am 100% for 2nd Amendment rights, but some people seem:
> A) Incredibly incapable physically
> B) Deathly afraid of the world ALL the time


A gun is the single most effective tool for self defense.


----------



## Unkotare (Nov 1, 2022)

What is another word for cat?


----------



## Hollie (Nov 1, 2022)

Unkotare said:


> What is another word for cat?


Survivor?


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, most of the Demonstrations were over by August.
> Most of the demonstrations were peaceful.
> Only about 50 people died as a result of BLM demonstrations, most of them demonstrators killed by police.
> 400,000 people died of Covid.  65 million lost their jobs.  That's why Trump got voted out of office.




The blm and antifa, democrat party brownshirts murdered 50 people.....burned and looted for 7 months in order to damage Trump before the election.........and you dismiss that political violence?   

Trump didn't wreck the country, the democrat party politicians who used the Chinese flu as cover to wreck their state's economies to wreck the national economy to hurt Trump did that.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 1, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Umm, sorry pumpkin. BLM riots were about anarchy and looting.
> 
> The motivations of BLM'ers wasn't some ''I'm oppressed by the man', nonsense as you silly hippies try to represent. Let go of the 1960's.... dude.
> 
> Your BLM heroes were wannabe socialists and among the more physically repulsive people on the planet.



Nope, they were about a population that had been pushed too far.  

Now, you might want to live like a Zionist, with your boot to the neck of a minority who wants to kill you... but I think there's a better way to live.  

You address valid grievances and correct them.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 1, 2022)

2aguy said:


> The blm and antifa, democrat party brownshirts murdered 50 people.....burned and looted for 7 months in order to damage Trump before the election.........and you dismiss that political violence?



Actually, they did nothing of the sort.  Some of those 50 deaths were cops killing demonstrators, or counter demonstrators killing demonstrators.  

I don't dismiss it.  I was here begging FOR YEARS that we need to reform the cops to prevent exactly this sort of thing from happening.   25 years after the Rodney King riots, and we didn't learn a fucking thing.



2aguy said:


> Trump didn't wreck the country, the democrat party politicians who used the Chinese flu as cover to wreck their state's economies to wreck the national economy to hurt Trump did that.



If Trump had handled Covid with even a modicum of competence, then Covid wouldn't have done that much damage to the economy.

But you keep drinking the bleach.


----------



## Hollie (Nov 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Nope, they were about a population that had been pushed too far.
> 
> Now, you might want to live like a Zionist, with your boot to the neck of a minority who wants to kill you... but I think there's a better way to live.
> 
> You address valid grievances and correct them.


You can defend antifa and BLM misfits as you like but no one ''pushed them too far''. I understand you want excuses for the damage to people and property they caused because you share the same frustrations of ineffectualess and ineptitude. 

I think the better way to live involves removing arsonists, killers and social misfits who commit crimes from the greater society.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2022)

Hollie said:


> You can defend antifa and BLM misfits as you like but no one ''pushed them too far''. I understand you want excuses for the damage to people and property they caused because you share the same frustrations of ineffectualess and ineptitude.
> 
> I think the better way to live involves removing arsonists, killers and social misfits who commit crimes from the greater society.



I am sure you do...  

But that's the problem.  You ONLY cared about this issue AFTER they started burning your shit.  

Black people asked nicely for TEN YEARS to clean up our corrupt police departments.  And instead they saw cops either being acquitted or getting slap on the wrist punishments. 

Then they threatened to burn white people's shit... and amazingly, white people suddenly cared about police reform.   Murdering cops actually started getting meaningful sentences.


----------



## Hollie (Nov 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> I am sure you do...
> 
> But that's the problem.  You ONLY cared about this issue AFTER they started burning your shit.
> 
> ...



What's curious is that the self-hating white leftist doesn't understand that black people were most negatively affected by the BLM / antifa riots. 

That was a real benefit for the self-hating white leftists who literally despise black people.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2022)

Hollie said:


> What's curious is that the self-hating white leftist doesn't understand that black people were most negatively affected by the BLM / antifa riots.
> 
> That was a real benefit for the self-hating white leftists who literally despise black people.



Again, we white leftists were the ones BEGGING for real police reform, which Trump immediately undermined the minute he got into office. 

The right wing way- do the most illogical thing, then complain about the messed up result.


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Again, we white leftists were the ones BEGGING for real police reform, which Trump immediately undermined the minute he got into office.
> 
> The right wing way- do the most illogical thing, then complain about the messed up result.


Bill Clinton's crime bill was terrible for the Black Community

S0 much for White leftists wanting to save Blacks from the police huh?


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> I am sure you do...
> 
> But that's the problem.  You ONLY cared about this issue AFTER they started burning your shit.
> 
> ...




No......you are wrong.......when people in democrat party controlled cities keep voting for the democrat party, the party that destroyed the education systems in those cities, destroyed the family structures in those cities, attacked the police to the point the cops are retiring and quitting in massive numbers and then go on to release violent criminals over and over again, raise taxes to the point that businesses leave and never come back, destroying the job base, and then they keep voting for the democrat party.....

They brought much of the destruction on themselves.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Bill Clinton's crime bill was terrible for the Black Community
> 
> S0 much for White leftists wanting to save Blacks from the police huh?



Was it?  The crime rate under Bill Clinton declined from a high of 758/100K to 500/100K, a 35% decline.   I mean, I think it's amusing to watch you wingnuts complain about Clinton's crime bill hurting black people when at the time, you mocked Midnight Basketball and denounced it for not hurting them enough.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2022)

2aguy said:


> No......you are wrong.......when people in democrat party controlled cities keep voting for the democrat party, the party that destroyed the education systems in those cities, destroyed the family structures in those cities, attacked the police to the point the cops are retiring and quitting in massive numbers and then go on to release violent criminals over and over again, raise taxes to the point that businesses leave and never come back, destroying the job base, and then they keep voting for the democrat party.....



yet, oddly, crime only spikes when Republicans are in charge...


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Was it?  The crime rate under Bill Clinton declined from a high of 758/100K to 500/100K, a 35% decline.   I mean, I think it's amusing to watch you wingnuts complain about Clinton's crime bill hurting black people when at the time, you mocked Midnight Basketball and denounced it for not hurting them enough.
> 
> View attachment 719763


Yeah he militarized the police and arrested more black people

And all you have is a correlation and we all know that correlation does not equal causation there as crime levels were decreasing as the crack epidemic was waning


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> yet, oddly, crime only spikes when Republicans are in charge...




When the democrat party prosecutors, judges and politicians release violent criminals in record numbers, then attack the police to the point they stop doing their jobs and quit and retire in massive numbers........and the democrat party cities drive the spike in violent crime....

It isn't the republicans causing the crime, and you can lie all you want, even uninformed Americans are now onto your game....


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 2, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Yeah he militarized the police and arrested more black people





JoeB131 said:


> Was it?  The crime rate under Bill Clinton declined from a high of 758/100K to 500/100K, a 35% decline.   I mean, I think it's amusing to watch you wingnuts complain about Clinton's crime bill hurting black people when at the time, you mocked Midnight Basketball and denounced it for not hurting them enough.
> 
> View attachment 719763


For one the crime bill was signed in 94 and took time to be ramped up and why are you defending it when it's pretty clear that that bill gave new meaning to mass incarceration









						How the 1994 Crime Bill Fed the Mass Incarceration Crisis | News & Commentary | American Civil Liberties Union
					





					www.aclu.org


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Yeah he militarized the police and arrested more black people
> 
> And all you have is a correlation and we all know that correlation does not equal causation there as crime levels were decreasing as the crack epidemic was waning



Actually, the guy who really militarized the police was Bush, when he allowed Police Departments to buy all that surplus military equipment.


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, the guy who really militarized the police was Bush, when he allowed Police Departments to buy all that surplus military equipment.


It began with Clintons increase in 94 

Clinton was mainly resposible for the expansion of the for profit prison system that you are always whining about


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2022)

2aguy said:


> When the democrat party prosecutors, judges and politicians release violent criminals in record numbers, then attack the police to the point they stop doing their jobs and quit and retire in massive numbers........and the democrat party cities drive the spike in violent crime....
> 
> It isn't the republicans causing the crime, and you can lie all you want, even uninformed Americans are now onto your game....



Then why did crime go down under Clinton and Obama, and go up under Trump and the Bushes? 

I'm sorry, were the police "doing their jobs" when they choked George Floyd for 9 minutes, or shot Laquan McDonald 16 times when he was lying on the ground?  That doesn't seem to be in their job description to me.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> It began with Clintons increase in 94
> 
> Clinton was mainly resposible for the expansion of the for profit prison system that you are always whining about



Actually, that started under Reagan.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Then why did crime go down under Clinton and Obama, and go up under Trump and the Bushes?
> 
> I'm sorry, were the police "doing their jobs" when they choked George Floyd for 9 minutes, or shot Laquan McDonald 16 times when he was lying on the ground?  That doesn't seem to be in their job description to me.




Because the war on police and the release of violent criminals became an actual goal for the democrats starting in 2015.............

Floyd died from a drug overdose.....you can lie all you want, but that is the fact.


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Then why did crime go down under Clinton and Obama, and go up under Trump and the Bushes?
> 
> I'm sorry, were the police "doing their jobs" when they choked George Floyd for 9 minutes, or shot Laquan McDonald 16 times when he was lying on the ground?  That doesn't seem to be in their job description to me.


it was trending down before Clinton took office.

Once again correlation does not equal causation


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, that started under Reagan.
> 
> View attachment 719764


Yeah see that steep increase After Clinton's crime bill?

It was Billy's crime bill that also led to minors being charged as adults and expanded the death penalty use in other crimes

It made the problem of mass incarceration that you are always whining about even worse and here you are defending it.

You are such a fucking hypocrite


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Because the war on police and the release of violent criminals became an actual goal for the democrats starting in 2015.............
> 
> Floyd died from a drug overdose.....you can lie all you want, but that is the fact.



Not what the jury found.  I don't think a drug overdose looks like a knee to the neck. 

So this "war on police".... um, police funding has INCREASED 






So the police have all the equipment and guns they want, but we don't have enough books for our schools.  

Now, yeah, less people WANT to be police, because the Police themselves have made it a despised profession.  That's kind of on them.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> it was trending down before Clinton took office.
> 
> Once again correlation does not equal causation



No, it peaked under Bush... it started going down under Clinton. 



Blues Man said:


> Yeah see that steep increase After Clinton's crime bill?



Nope. I saw the steep increase after Reagan's War on Drugs.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Not what the jury found.  I don't think a drug overdose looks like a knee to the neck.
> 
> So this "war on police".... um, police funding has INCREASED
> 
> ...




The jury didn't care about the evidence since they didn't find the cop not guilty.....floyd died from blocked arteries excacerbated by the cocktail of drugs in his system.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2022)

2aguy said:


> The jury didn't care about the evidence since they didn't find the cop not guilty.....floyd died from blocked arteries excacerbated by the cocktail of drugs in his system.



The jury saw the evidence of him being choked for nine minute while he begged for his life.  

By your logic, any "angel of death" who kills people in hospitals is not guilty because those folks were already sick, right?


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> The jury saw the evidence of him being choked for nine minute while he begged for his life.
> 
> By your logic, any "angel of death" who kills people in hospitals is not guilty because those folks were already sick, right?




No.....the jury didn't pay attention to the evidence of his 3 blocked arteries and the over dose of drugs in his system.....and the fact he was talking the whole time he was being held, which means he was breathing, you doofus.


----------



## Hollie (Nov 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Again, we white leftists were the ones BEGGING for real police reform, which Trump immediately undermined the minute he got into office.
> 
> The right wing way- do the most illogical thing, then complain about the messed up result.


Again, self-hating white leftists were never BEGGING <--- note the use of capital letters for that added touuch of melodrama, for any reform. Self-hating white leftists were simply looking for a sacrificial lamb black population to bear the human cost of their socialist / Communist agenda. Burning inner cities and destroying small businesses was a part of that plan.


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> No, it peaked under Bush... it started going down under Clinton.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. I saw the steep increase after Reagan's War on Drugs.


Blinded by partisanship just like every other hypocrite partisan hack here


----------



## Hollie (Nov 2, 2022)

Law enforcement is calling out the leftist criminal enabling program euphemistically called the safe-t act. The entire effect of this disaster is to coddle criminals while putting law abiding citizens on the defensive. Sheriffs are already advising the public that they face consequences from leftist DA's and prosecutors if they defend themselves from the criminals those leftists are enabling. 












						SAFE-T Act: Illinois sheriff warns prosecutors not to be ‘overzealous’ targeting victims stopping criminals
					

Jefferson County Sheriff Jeff Bullard says the SAFE-T Act is not supported by the 'vast majority' of citizens, police officers, attorneys and judges in Illinois.




					www.foxnews.com
				




Illinois Police and state's attorneys shouldn't be "overzealous" when prosecuting victims who use force to defend themselves after the state's criminal justice reform law goes into effect, a sheriff told Fox News.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2022)

2aguy said:


> No.....the jury didn't pay attention to the evidence of his 3 blocked arteries and the over dose of drugs in his system.....and the fact he was talking the whole time he was being held, which means he was breathing, you doofus.



He had three blocked arteries for quite some time, but he didn't die until Chauvin's knee was on his neck.. for nine minutes.  



Hollie said:


> Again, self-hating white leftists were never BEGGING <--- note the use of capital letters for that added touuch of melodrama, for any reform. Self-hating white leftists were simply looking for a sacrificial lamb black population to bear the human cost of their socialist / Communist agenda. Burning inner cities and destroying small businesses was a part of that plan.



Hardly.  Those people rioted because you DIDN'T listen to the reforms we suggested.  In fact, Trump undid most of them.   And the bad cops figured they could go back to business as usual.  



Blues Man said:


> Blinded by partisanship just like every other hypocrite partisan hack here



Uh, you said yourself the reason for mass incarceration was the "War on Drugs".  Well, who started the War on Drugs?  It was Reagan, and to a lesser degree Nixon.  But definitely Reagan who imposed the tougher penalties for drugs, including stiffer penalties for drugs used by minorities. 



Hollie said:


> Law enforcement is calling out the leftist criminal enabling program euphemistically called the safe-t act. The entire effect of this disaster is to coddle criminals while putting law abiding citizens on the defensive. Sheriffs are already advising the public that they face consequences from leftist DA's and prosecutors if they defend themselves from the criminals those leftists are enabling.



Actually, the only people upset are the small town hick sheriffs in IL who like to use Bail to shake down people for minor offenses.  

If he's dangerous, ask for remand. 
If he's not, let him wait for his court date at home, even if he's a poor person.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Nov 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> You mean the gun industry unethically told people "Biden is going to take your guns".
> 
> Right after "Obama's gonna take your guns."
> 
> ...


*When Sheep Turn Into Rams*

The more guns we have, the less chance the disarmers will dare take them.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2022)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> *When Sheep Turn Into Rams*
> 
> The more guns we have, the less chance the disarmers will dare take them.



The more guns we have... the more we endanger each other. 

You see, true story.  The Nazis didn't confiscate all the guns in Germany.  in fact, they rolled back the Weimar Republic's guns laws and ignored the Treaty of Versailles limits on gun ownership.  

But when the SS came for the Jews, not a single German rushed out and said, "Wait, Goldstein is my friend you can't take him!" 

It was more like, "Can I have his stuff?"


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Nov 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> The more guns we have... the more we endanger each other.
> 
> You see, true story.  The Nazis didn't confiscate all the guns in Germany.  in fact, they rolled back the Weimar Republic's guns laws and ignored the Treaty of Versailles limits on gun ownership.
> 
> ...


True.

And the notion that had Germany’s Jews possessed guns they’d not fall prey to the Holocaust is as much a lie and myth as ‘good guy with a gun.’


----------



## Hollie (Nov 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> He had three blocked arteries for quite some time, but he didn't die until Chauvin's knee was on his neck.. for nine minutes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You give way too much credit to the social misfits you define as your heroes. These are people who riot because they think it’s fun and because they knew there was little downside. When the pretend VP makes a point to announce support for bail and / or release for rioters who burn, loot and violently attack, they’re incentivized.


Umm, no. This is another of the really sad commentaries that define the damaged leftist mind. There were no laws that Reagan imposed which placed tougher penalties for drugs, including stiffer penalties for drugs used by minorities.

You do have a habit of making up nonsense claims but because you don’t know, Congress makes laws, not the president,


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 3, 2022)

Hollie said:


> You give way too much credit to the social misfits you define as your heroes. These are people who riot because they think it’s fun and because they knew there was little downside. When the pretend VP makes a point to announce support for bail and / or release for rioters who burn, loot and violently attack, they’re incentivized.



Bail is everyone's right.  And bail for people protesting injustice would seem to be an imperitive in a just society. 

There SHOULD have been massive police reform after the Rodney King riots.   Instead, the behavior of the cops got worse, not better.  

It's not about George Floyd being a model citizen... it was that the thing he was accused of doing (passing a fake $20) did not merit the use of lethal force against him.  And the same could be said of most of the other victims of police misconduct.  Tamir Rice was playing with a toy on a playground.  Laquan McDonald was trying to break into a truck to keep warm.  Mike Brown grabbed some cheap cigars and pushed a store clerk.  

It's that excessive force was used that would not have been used against a white person in the same circumstances. 



Hollie said:


> Umm, no. This is another of the really sad commentaries that define the damaged leftist mind. There were no laws that Reagan imposed which placed tougher penalties for drugs, including stiffer penalties for drugs used by minorities.











						Reagan Signs Broad 'Sword and Shield' Anti-Drug Law : Casual Users Face Stiff Fines; Kingpins Could Get the Death Penalty
					

President Reagan on Friday signed landmark anti-drug legislation, calling it a "new sword and shield" in the nation's battle against the illegal drug epidemic.




					www.latimes.com
				












						Ronald Reagan's tough legal legacy.
					

In these days of uncertainty—days of terrorist threats, foreign-policy challenges, and controversial military action—the death of Ronald Reagan was...




					slate.com
				












						Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1986 — The Congress Project
					






					www.thecongressproject.com
				




Jesus Christ on a pogo stick, do some fucking research.   Reagan's draconian War on Drugs was more than just sending his wrinkled old lady out to blurt "Just Say No."  It involved massive punishments that doubled the prison population.


----------



## Hollie (Nov 3, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Bail is everyone's right.  And bail for people protesting injustice would seem to be an imperitive in a just society.
> 
> There SHOULD have been massive police reform after the Rodney King riots.   Instead, the behavior of the cops got worse, not better.
> 
> ...



What an audacious idea: impose consequences for criminal acts.










						Defund the police push, liberal policies driving Chicago business exodus, hurting poor the most: experts
					

Experts tell Fox News Digital that the defund the police movement has created a business exodus in Chicago that will hurt the most vulnerable communities the most.




					www.google.com
				




Several experts reacted to the CEO of McDonald's suggesting his company could be the next to flee Chicago's crime wave by telling Fox News Digital that progressive policies and defund the police rhetoric have created a dangerous situation that will cause even more businesses to flee and most negatively impact the most vulnerable communities in the city.


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 3, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> He had three blocked arteries for quite some time, but he didn't die until Chauvin's knee was on his neck.. for nine minutes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I said it was one reason

You don't have much of a memory.

The fact that we have more people in prison for property crimes than violent crimes is a direct result of Clintons bill that you support even though you constantly whine that we have too many people in prisons and then you say we can't enforce gun laws because we already have too many people in prison all the while defending Clintons bill which is a major factor in what you whine about


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 3, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> He had three blocked arteries for quite some time, but he didn't die until Chauvin's knee was on his neck.. for nine minutes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




He died from the 3 blocked arteries.........and the massive amount of drugs in his system.........and the decision to violently resist arrest.......

You doofus.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Nov 3, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> The more guns we have... the more we endanger each other.
> 
> You see, true story.  The Nazis didn't confiscate all the guns in Germany.  in fact, they rolled back the Weimar Republic's guns laws and ignored the Treaty of Versailles limits on gun ownership.
> 
> ...


*DemNazis*

Turning loose proven savages on American citizens is state-sponsored terrorism.  The Liberals use their pet ferals to distract, harass, rob, and kill us.  They also believe that if Whites ever try to overthrow them, the ghettoblasters will act as a standing army to protect the multicultie dictatorship.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 3, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> So you find 7 cases...
> 
> Compared to the 20,000 gun homicides, 70,000 gun injuries, 43,000 gun suicides and 400,000 gun crimes every year.



The CDC says Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year for self defense…..the Department of Justice puts the number at 1.5 million times again.

Lives saved….about 175,000…..


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 3, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Which wouldn't have happened if there wasn't a war.



Nope……these countries were under occupation, without combat operations….the civillians were rounded up and murdered


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 4, 2022)

Hollie said:


> What an audacious idea: impose consequences for criminal acts.



We lock up 2 million people.  Crime is going up just as fast in the rural areas as the urban ones. 









						In Rural America, Violent Crime Reaches Highest Level in a Decade
					

The loss of jobs and the opioid epidemic are two of the biggest reasons.




					www.governing.com
				






2aguy said:


> He died from the 3 blocked arteries.........and the massive amount of drugs in his system.........and the decision to violently resist arrest.......



The coroner and jury decided otherwise... which is why Chauvin will be sleeping with one eye open for the next 22 years... heh, heh, heh...  



Blues Man said:


> The fact that we have more people in prison for property crimes than violent crimes is a direct result of Clintons bill that you support even though you constantly whine that we have too many people in prisons and then you say we can't enforce gun laws because we already have too many people in prison all the while defending Clintons bill which is a major factor in what you whine about



Again, it's fun to watch you guys pretend that you are upset about Clinton's crime bill now when at the time, you whined it was too soft on criminals. 



			https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1994/08/14/gops-beef-with-beleaguered-crime-bill-shifts-to-pork/69f000cf-a246-4766-9306-baf6be7e6a7c/
		




The Sage of Main Street said:


> Turning loose proven savages on American citizens is state-sponsored terrorism. The Liberals use their pet ferals to distract, harass, rob, and kill us. They also believe that if Whites ever try to overthrow them, the ghettoblasters will act as a standing army to protect the multicultie dictatorship.



Yes, I applaud you for being open in your racism... unlike the other racists who try to pretend it isn't their fear of dark people that motivates them.
Also, you are an idiot.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 4, 2022)

2aguy said:


> The CDC says Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year for self defense…



No, they don't.  They say that's the average of all studies.  The CDC is SPECIFICALLY prohibited from studying guns after Kellerman found a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy. 






__





						Dickey Amendment - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 4, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Nope……these countries were under occupation, without combat operations….the civillians were rounded up and murdered



Oh, under occupation?  You mean everyone just gave up fighting?  

Um, no, they didn't.  There was partisan fighting going on all over Europe. 

What is instructional is how each country handled the problem.  Most of the Jews who got turned into lampshades and bars of soap were from Poland, where the fighting was the most vicious, but the Poles were happy to turn in their Jewish neighbors.


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> We lock up 2 million people.  Crime is going up just as fast in the rural areas as the urban ones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Once again you illustrate just how obtuse you are.
You have no clue about my opinion on Clintons crime bill when he signed it.  You have no clue who I vote for or don't vote for.

You whine about gun crimes but then say we can't enforce gun laws because we have too many people in prison.  Those two things just illustrate the cognitive dissonance that afflicts your thinking.

You whine about Reagan and the so called war on drugs because in increased incarceration then you praise Clinton for adding to the level of mass incaceration

More diametrically opposed viewpoints.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 4, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> You have no clue about my opinion



Yes, you never own up to all the bad ideas your party foisted over the last 40 years.  



Blues Man said:


> You whine about gun crimes but then say we can't enforce gun laws because we have too many people in prison. Those two things just illustrate the cognitive dissonance that afflicts your thinking.



We can enforce gun laws without putting ANYONE in prison.  
You get caught with a gun, we take your gun.  
We then go after the gun store that sold it to you and shut it down if it didn't cross every T and Dot every I on the paperwork when they sold it to you.  

Nobody has to go to jail.  It will be just like taxes or any other law, the cost of non-compliance will be too much to take. 



Blues Man said:


> You whine about Reagan and the so called war on drugs because in increased incarceration then you praise Clinton for adding to the level of mass incaceration



Nope.  Never said that Clinton did any such thing.  The Crime bill didn't add to the prison population, it continued to grow on the path Reagan put it on.


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Yes, you never own up to all the bad ideas your party foisted over the last 40 years.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am not now and have never been a member of any political party.

And no you cannot enforce gun laws without putting people in prison.  When you catch a piece of shit criminal with a gun what do you propose we do with that piece of shit?

And FYI the vast majority of criminals don't buy guns from gun stores.  There you go being obtuse again.

Thank for for proving that you are a fucking idiot


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 4, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> And no you cannot enforce gun laws without putting people in prison. When you catch a piece of shit criminal with a gun what do you propose we do with that piece of shit?



If his only crime was "just having a gun", you take the gun away from him.  
If he committed other crimes, you put him in jail for those crimes.  



Blues Man said:


> And FYI the vast majority of criminals don't buy guns from gun stores. There you go being obtuse again.



Then why is it every time there's a mass shooter, after we find out that everyone in his life knew he was crazy, we find out he had no problem getting a gun?  

Loughner, Cruz, James Joker Holmes, Robert "Awake the Rapper" Crimo,  every last one of them just walked into a gun store, slapped down a stack of bills, and walked out with a military grade weapon.  

Do you really think that the gun stores are showing MORE caution with weaker guns for lesser criminals?


----------



## Hollie (Nov 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> We lock up 2 million people.  Crime is going up just as fast in the rural areas as the urban ones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Really. Loss of jobs and the opioid epidemic are causes of crime?

Leftists won’t admit their failures but job loss, loss of inventive to work has been a real problem with the Biden regime pouring money into welfare. 

The opioid eoedemic is the direct result of Braindead Bidens open border and fund the cartels program. 

You can now respond with your typical, _I_ _Blame Trump_™ slogan.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 4, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Really. Loss of jobs and the opioid epidemic are causes of crime?
> 
> Leftists won’t admit their failures but job loss, loss of inventive to work has been a real problem with the Biden regime pouring money into welfare.
> 
> The opioid eoedemic is the direct result of Braindead Bidens open border and fund the cartels program.



We had an opioid crisis long before Biden got there... and the primary contributors have been big pharma.  

The problem in the rural areas, of course, is that farming has become consolidated and small factories have closed down... that's why there is so much poverty, misery and crime in the rural areas.    

But they keep voting Republican and things never get better.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> If his only crime was "just having a gun", you take the gun away from him.
> If he committed other crimes, you put him in jail for those crimes.
> 
> 
> ...



*Then why is it every time there's a mass shooter, after we find out that everyone in his life knew he was crazy, we find out he had no problem getting a gun?


Over 350 million Americans...how many of these dangerous, crazy people have we had?*

*2021....

6

2020

2

Their families never realized what they were capable of as they lived through the nightmare of living with this tiny number of nuts.....now, people are becoming more aware of who and what these guys might be.......you doofus.*


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 5, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Then why is it every time there's a mass shooter, after we find out that everyone in his life knew he was crazy, we find out he had no problem getting a gun?
> 
> 
> Over 350 million Americans...how many of these dangerous, crazy people have we had?



Well, we have 43,000 gun deaths and 70,000 gun injuries and 400,000 gun crimes every year.   That's how many dangerous people we have.


----------



## Batcat (Nov 5, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> You mean the gun industry unethically told people "Biden is going to take your guns".
> 
> Right after "Obama's gonna take your guns."
> 
> ...


Perhaps if we didn’t warn people the people we warned about would have tried to take our guns.

For example Joe Biden wants to ban 9mm pistols.









						Biden calls 9mm ‘high-caliber weapons,’ suggests banning them
					

President Biden spoke to reporters about his thoughts on 9mm handguns, calling them "high-caliber" and claiming that the Constitution is not "absolute."




					www.foxnews.com


----------



## Hollie (Nov 5, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> We had an opioid crisis long before Biden got there... and the primary contributors have been big pharma.
> 
> The problem in the rural areas, of course, is that farming has become consolidated and small factories have closed down... that's why there is so much poverty, misery and crime in the rural areas.
> 
> But they keep voting Republican and things never get better.


Umm, we have an opioid crisis now because democrats have partnered with Mexican cartels. 









						Fentanyl Seizures at Border Continue to Spike, Making San Diego a National Epicenter for Fentanyl Trafficking; U.S. Attorney’s Office Prioritizes Prosecutions and Prevention Programs
					






					www.justice.gov
				



Fentanyl Seizures at Border Continue to Spike, Making San Diego a National Epicenter for Fentanyl Trafficking; U.S. Attorney’s Office Prioritizes Prosecutions and Prevention Programs​
Are democrats even talking about the number of fentanyl related deaths in the US? No, they're not. With thanks to democrat open border policies, Mexican drug cartels now control fentanyl being smuggled into the US. The cartels have capitalized on the Democrat-sponsored human smuggling / child sex trafficking syndicates to smuggle staggering amounts of drugs and humans  into the country. 

​


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 5, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Umm, we have an opioid crisis now because democrats have partnered with Mexican cartels.



Really?  Because it looks like the problem started long before Biden got there.


----------



## Hollie (Nov 5, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Really?  Because it looks like the problem started long before Biden got there.
> 
> View attachment 721141
> 
> View attachment 721142





Really? Your graphs show the enormous spike in drug overdose deaths since the _Biden - Democrat Cartel Enrichment Program_ was put into effect.









						Fighting Fentanyl: The Biden Administration’s Failure of Leadership | Manhattan Institute
					

The number of Americans dying from accidental drug overdoses has grown sharply in recent years, exceeding 100,000 annually and reaching 77,000 for deaths associated with opioids for the year ending November 2021, according to the most recent provisional data from the Centers for Disease Control...




					www.manhattan-institute.org
				




The number of Americans dying from accidental drug overdoses has grown sharply in recent years, exceeding 100,000 annually and reaching 77,000 for deaths associated with opioids for the year ending November 2021, according to the most recent provisional data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.[1] This opioid death toll is 55% greater than for the year ending in November 2019, when a period of rapid growth in overdose deaths began. Unfortunately, the Biden administration in its newly issued National Drug Control Strategy (NDCS),[2] does little to show the necessary leadership in the fight against one of our nation’s biggest public health challenges.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 5, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Really? Your graphs show the enormous spike in drug overdose deaths since the _Biden - Democrat Cartel Enrichment Program_ was put into effect.



uh, wow, so you don't know how to read graphs, do you?  
Here, let me help you out...  Biden didn't become president until 2021. 

Your chart only goes up to 2020.  And you can see the number doubled between 2016 and 2020.  

Charts are one of those things you struggle with, aren't they?


----------



## Hollie (Nov 5, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> uh, wow, so you don't know how to read graphs, do you?
> Here, let me help you out...  Biden didn't become president until 2021.
> 
> Your chart only goes up to 2020.  And you can see the number doubled between 2016 and 2020.
> ...



Uh, wow, so you didn't want to address the numbers because democrat policies were in place in 2020. 

A reality based worldview is one of those things you struggle with.










						Flow of Fentanyl into American Communities Quadruples Under Biden
					

Four times as much deadly fentanyl is flowing across the United States-Mexico border under President Joe Biden.




					www.breitbart.com
				




Better now?


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 5, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Uh, wow, so you didn't want to address the numbers because democrat policies were in place in 2020.
> 
> A reality based worldview is one of those things you struggle with.



I mean, I know you guys would like to pretend Trump wasn't President in 2020, failing miserably at controlling Covid, Fentanyl, unemployment, riots, wildfires and just about everything else that was kind of his job. 

Besides the fact you think Breitbart is a credible source, the reality is, if we have fentanyl, it's because there's a demand for it.  

The sensible thing to do would be to invest in drug rehab programs, because "locking them all up" has failed pretty miserably.


----------



## Hollie (Nov 5, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> I mean, I know you guys would like to pretend Trump wasn't President in 2020, failing miserably at controlling Covid, Fentanyl, unemployment, riots, wildfires and just about everything else that was kind of his job.
> 
> Besides the fact you think Breitbart is a credible source, the reality is, if we have fentanyl, it's because there's a demand for it.
> 
> The sensible thing to do would be to invest in drug rehab programs, because "locking them all up" has failed pretty miserably.



I mean, I know you guys like to pretend there's no historically bad drug smuggling problem under democrats open border policies but pretending you're not responsible is childish.


Do you really think your specious opinions represent a reliable source?


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 5, 2022)

Hollie said:


> I mean, I know you guys like to pretend there's no historically bad drug smuggling problem under democrats open border policies but pretending you're not responsible is childish.



Our drug policies are the result of 50 years of stupidity.... Fentanyl is just the latest panic word.    Now, I'm an old guy, and I'm maybe a bit cynical...  but this is about the tenth "Drug Crisis" I've lived through.   

We have a "drug problem" because moralistic idiots like you think we can treat a medical problem like a criminal one.


----------



## Hollie (Nov 5, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Our drug policies are the result of 50 years of stupidity.... Fentanyl is just the latest panic word.    Now, I'm an old guy, and I'm maybe a bit cynical...  but this is about the tenth "Drug Crisis" I've lived through.
> 
> We have a "drug problem" because moralistic idiots like you think we can treat a medical problem like a criminal one.



Our drug overdose death crisis is a direct result of Democrat policies that enrich drug and human smuggling cartels.









						The 'Root Cause' Of Fentanyl Overdoses Is Biden's Border Crisis
					

Everyone wants to talk about the 'hidden epidemic' of fentanyl overdoses but no one wants to talk about the border crisis that’s causing it.




					thefederalist.com
				




It’s not lost on anybody including the corporate media that fentanyl, the synthetic opioid making its rounds in U.S. cities, is increasingly threatening the lives of Americans. Severely lacking from the media coverage of record-high fentanyl overdoses, however, is honesty about what exactly is causing streams of the dangerous substance to enter the U.S. unnoticed: President Joe Biden’s unsecured border.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 5, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Well, we have 43,000 gun deaths and 70,000 gun injuries and 400,000 gun crimes every year.   That's how many dangerous people we have.



No…the majority of those are suicides, amd the majority of gun murder victims are simply criminals murdered by criminals……

Meanwhile, normal Americans wih their legal guns use them 1.1 million tomes a year to save lives from rape, robbery, murder, stabbings, beatings, mass oublic shootings and the private ownership of guns keeps our government from committing the mass murder that the Europeans committed from 1939-1945….they murdered 15 million innocent men, women and children….more innocent people murdered in 6 years than all of the gun murder in our country over our entire 246 year history.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 5, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Our drug policies are the result of 50 years of stupidity.... Fentanyl is just the latest panic word.    Now, I'm an old guy, and I'm maybe a bit cynical...  but this is about the tenth "Drug Crisis" I've lived through.
> 
> We have a "drug problem" because moralistic idiots like you think we can treat a medical problem like a criminal one.



You can bet the bidens ate getting their 10% from the fentanyl the chinese are smuggling across our border.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 5, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Our drug overdose death crisis is a direct result



Squawk


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 5, 2022)

2aguy said:


> You can bet the bidens ate getting their 10% from the fentanyl the chinese are smuggling across our border.


Drugs don't kill people... people kill people.  

Drugs are harmless unless they are used.. just like guns.


----------



## Hollie (Nov 5, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Squawk
> 
> View attachment 721163



That's the cartoonish response one would expect from a leftist unable to defend a failed argument.


----------



## Hollie (Nov 5, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Drugs don't kill people... people kill people.
> 
> Drugs are harmless unless they are used.. just like guns.


When leftists put criminals with a history of violent crimes on the street, the results are predictable.

Criminals don't commit crimes - just excusable indiscretions... x 36.









						DA Alvin Bragg cut deals that freed NYC career criminal — who then punched woman in random attack
					

Marcus Wright, 37, was charged with felony robbery and grand larceny in two separate Manhattan heists — but was allowed to plead down to misdemeanor petty larceny raps in both.




					nypost.com
				




Marcus Wright, 37, was charged with grand larceny in April — but was allowed to plead down to misdemeanor petty larceny rap and walked out without any jail time, according to records and law enforcement sources.

Wright, who has 36 busts on his rap sheet, got away with a similar break in November — before Bragg took office in January — after a robbery at a Sephora near Union Square.



Only 36 prior arrests!


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 5, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> If his only crime was "just having a gun", you take the gun away from him.
> If he committed other crimes, you put him in jail for those crimes.
> 
> 
> ...


It's not just having a gun moron it's being a person who is legally prohibited from having a gun and by law that is a federal offense punishable by 5 years in federal prison.

You just take away the gun and the piece of shit just goes and gets another one.

And gun stores have to abide by all BG check laws so if the NICS shows a person is legally eligible to buy a gun the gun dealer has to sell it to him.

And a 5.56 mm semiautomatic rifle is NOT military grade.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 5, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Only 36 prior arrests



Did anyone die in those prior arrests? 

Nope. 

Don't care. 



Blues Man said:


> It's not just having a gun moron it's being a person who is legally prohibited from having a gun and by law that is a federal offense punishable by 5 years in federal prison.
> 
> You just take away the gun and the piece of shit just goes and gets another one.



And then we take that one, and take the business license of the guy who sold it to him. 

You will end the gun problem when you end the profit motive.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 5, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Drugs don't kill people... people kill people.
> 
> Drugs are harmless unless they are used.. just like guns.



Hmmmm...... I didn't say anything other than biden making his 10% from allowing the Chinese to send fentanyl into the country, you doofus.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 5, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Did anyone die in those prior arrests?
> 
> Nope.
> 
> ...




Why.....if they did the legal work required by the local, state and federal government there is no reason to persecute them.  IF they broke the law, then sure, you can punish them....you are a fascist who simply wants to punish them because they sell guns.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 5, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Why.....if they did the legal work required by the local, state and federal government there is no reason to persecute them. IF they broke the law, then sure, you can punish them....you are a fascist who simply wants to punish them because they sell guns.



I'm someone who is sick of them selling guns to thugs and crazy people.  

The problem is they ARE breaking the law, and they aren't being punished.  









						How ATF's culture of leniency, lack of oversight allows 'wayward' gun shops to stay open
					

A new investigation by USA Today and The Trace finds that the ATF, the federal body policing the gun industry, is "frequently toothless and conciliatory," goes easy on "wayward dealers" and  sometimes allows guns to "flow into the hands of criminals." Stephanie Sy speaks to USA Today's Nick...




					www.pbs.org
				




Judy, a new investigation by USA Today and The Trace finds that the ATF, which is in charge of policing the gun industry, is — quote — "frequently toothless and conciliatory, bending over backward to go easy on wayward dealers, and sometimes allowing guns to flow into the hands of criminals."

A team of reporters looked at more than 2,000 gun inspections between 2015 and 2017. It found too many cases of dealers breaking the law without significant punishment, and managers who overrode recommendations to revoke gun licenses.

It also found that dealers were inspected only once every seven years, on average.


----------



## Hollie (Nov 5, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Did anyone die in those prior arrests?
> 
> Nope.
> 
> ...



There's a good leftist. As long as you're not one of the 36 people victimized by the career criminal, his crimes are just not concerning. 

What's remarkable is that leftists will rail against the surge in Firearms sales as people realize leftist policies are what can get them assaulted or killed. Leftists will whine and moan about the ''proliferation of guns'' not understanding that they are the best firearm sales people on the planet.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 5, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> I'm someone who is sick of them selling guns to thugs and crazy people.
> 
> The problem is they ARE breaking the law, and they aren't being punished.
> 
> ...



Yeah…..right…. I don’t trust the Trace or any anti-gun fascist news site to report this accurately…


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 6, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Did anyone die in those prior arrests?
> 
> Nope.
> 
> ...


Again, Idiot, the vast majority of criminals do not buy guns from a gun store


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 6, 2022)

Hollie said:


> There's a good leftist. As long as you're not one of the 36 people victimized by the career criminal, his crimes are just not concerning.



"Oh, noes, he stole a bag of chips from my store!!!"  Um, yeah... that's some victim, there.  

Okay, let's look at his horrible rap sheet. Keep in mind, this the NY Post, so you have to take it with a very big grain of salt. 

*"Wright’s prior arrests include grand larceny, assault, soliciting prostitution and drugs."*

Okay, well, Prostitution and drugs are victimless crimes, so no victims there.  Assault could be a simple fist-fight...  

The problem with NYC is that you had decades of Rudy and Bloomberg criminalizing being poor and minority, that's why you have contempt for the law.  Except now the prisons are full and the resources aren't there to lock up someone for half a million dollars for stealing a bag of chips or hiring a hooker or smoking some weed. 









						New York City Prison Costs Continue to Rise
					

A recent report shows that the annual cost to incarcerate one individual in New York City is more than half a million dollars.




					interrogatingjustice.org
				




So now it's triage... let the petty larcenists go because you need room to lock up the murderers and rapists.  



Hollie said:


> What's remarkable is that leftists will rail against the surge in Firearms sales as people realize leftist policies are what can get them assaulted or killed. Leftists will whine and moan about the ''proliferation of guns'' not understanding that they are the best firearm sales people on the planet.



Again, crime has gone down for the last 30 years...  but the number of guns keeps going up, and most of them sold to hard-core ammosexuals who think "I gots to have more guns... I just saw a negro on TV stealing a bag of chips!!!"  



2aguy said:


> Yeah…..right…. I don’t trust the Trace or any anti-gun fascist news site to report this accurately…



I'm sure you don't.  You guys have defanged and demonized the ATF and you wonder why it can't do it's job.  



Blues Man said:


> Again, Idiot, the vast majority of criminals do not buy guns from a gun store



The vast majority of gun murders aren't "criminals", they are idiots who decided to settle a family or neighborly argument with a gun.  We've been over this.  

The gang drive by gets all the news coverage. 
The guy who shoots his wife for burning the pot roast doesn't.


----------



## Hollie (Nov 6, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> "Oh, noes, he stole a bag of chips from my store!!!"  Um, yeah... that's some victim, there.
> 
> Okay, let's look at his horrible rap sheet. Keep in mind, this the NY Post, so you have to take it with a very big grain of salt.
> 
> ...


A bag of chips does not cost $950. In the leftist paradise of San Francisco, that's how much one can steal without consequence.

The leftist attitude is that in the collective, ''whats yours is mine''. Criminals are a protected class and the politburo is protected by the criminals. If the unwashed masses get out of line, the politburo will unleash their criminal class as a quasi enforcement arm. 

The results are identifiable. Just a few of the companies in San Francisco  leaving or downsizing:









						These are the tech companies leaving their Bay Area offices
					

Some are moving to Texas, others are abandoning expensive leases.




					www.sfgate.com
				





Hewlett Packard Enterprise HPE, which had 5,992 employees in the Bay Area at the time of the announcement in 2020, isn't closing its San Jose campus, but will be moving its headquarters to Houston. ...
Oracle Redwood City-based multinational tech company Oracle, with 18,121 employees in the Bay Area at time of the announcement, is also moving to Texas. ...
Uber ...
Airbnb ...
Digital Realty ...
Salesforce ...
Yelp ...
Twitter ...


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 6, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> "Oh, noes, he stole a bag of chips from my store!!!"  Um, yeah... that's some victim, there.
> 
> Okay, let's look at his horrible rap sheet. Keep in mind, this the NY Post, so you have to take it with a very big grain of salt.
> 
> ...


Yeah they are.

We don't have 15000 husbands shooting their wives annually but we do have lots of criminals shooting each other


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 6, 2022)

Hollie said:


> A bag of chips does not cost $950. In the leftist paradise of San Francisco, that's how much one can steal without consequence.
> 
> The leftist attitude is that in the collective, ''whats yours is mine''. Criminals are a protected class and the politburo is protected by the criminals. If the unwashed masses get out of line, the politburo will unleash their criminal class as a quasi enforcement arm.



Or they simply realized that spending $106,000 a year to lock up someone who stole $950.00 worth of stuff isn't cost effective.  

The real problem - and I'm going to post facts here, so don't get confused - is that the courts have ALREADY ordered California to stop overstuffing their prisons.  





__





						ACLU Lens: Supreme Court Orders California to Reduce its Prison Population to Alleviate Overcrowding | News & Commentary | American Civil Liberties Union
					





					www.aclu.org
				




California put too many people in prison with such stupidity as "Three Strikes and your Out" laws, where people were facing life sentences for stealing slices of pizza and tube socks.  The prisons were at 200% of the capacity because they weren't voting to build more prisons.  The courts ordered them to get it down to 137% capacity.  

This is the problem with your beloved Prison-Industrial Complex.  There are a lot of people getting rich off of it, but the taxpayers don't really want to pay for it.  

So, yeah, a threshold of $950.00 in property for non-violent offenses... actually seems kind of reasonable. 



Hollie said:


> The results are identifiable. Just a few of the companies in San Francisco leaving or downsizing:



Oh, noes, not big corporations!   What is this bizarre fascination you guys have about worrying about the rich?  Um, okay, you see, the Rich are going to be fine.  

Frankly, Yelp can fall of a fucking cliff, as far as I'm concerned.  It's a completely unethical company, as for AirBnB -  they ended up screwing a lot of people. 






Blues Man said:


> We don't have 15000 husbands shooting their wives annually but we do have lots of criminals shooting each other



No, we really don't.   According to the National Gang Task force, the number of gang-related murders in the US every year is between 1800 - 2300 a year.   The rest of them are people shooting family members, neighbors or that schmuck who cut them off in traffic.


----------



## Hollie (Nov 6, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Or they simply realized that spending $106,000 a year to lock up someone who stole $950.00 worth of stuff isn't cost effective.
> 
> The real problem - and I'm going to post facts here, so don't get confused - is that the courts have ALREADY ordered California to stop overstuffing their prisons.
> 
> ...



Ah. The ACLU is now a law making body. Only in the alternate reality of the leftist are such absurdities entertained.

Frankly, I don't see that multinationals or national businesses are going to much care about your hurt feelings. It's pretty clear that you're one of those angry, self-hating, Gender Studies grads who discovered that flipping burgers was the career path that Gender Studies provided.

I suppose you can stomp your feet or fall to the floor, kickungvand screaming because your tender sensibilities are offended by businesses which create jobs and hire. That kind of describes the angry, self-hating leftist who presumes an entitlement but must exist in a world where his tender sensibilities are not the first concern of everyone else.


----------



## Hollie (Nov 6, 2022)

Iowa City passes referendum opposing proposed amendment
					

Iowa City's city council illustrated the term




					bearingarms.com
				




Iowa City is taking a stance against a proposed gun rights amendment to the Iowa Constitution that is up for a vote in next week’s midterms.

City Council members passed a resolution opposing Public Measure Number One earlier this week.

The proposal states it is a “fundamental individual right” to keep and bear arms. Supporters of the amendment say it protects gun rights.





Lets hope the ''Right to Bear Arms'' stays protected and respected in Iowa.


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 6, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Or they simply realized that spending $106,000 a year to lock up someone who stole $950.00 worth of stuff isn't cost effective.
> 
> The real problem - and I'm going to post facts here, so don't get confused - is that the courts have ALREADY ordered California to stop overstuffing their prisons.
> 
> ...


So you think ALL criminals belong to gangs?

Yup you're an idiot

FYI less than 50 people  a year are killed in road rage shootings


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 7, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Ah. The ACLU is now a law making body. Only in the alternate reality of the leftist are such absurdities entertained.



Do you have reading comprehension problems?  Did you just not read where the SUPREME COURT (Dominated by Republicans) ordered California to reduce it's prison population?



Hollie said:


> Frankly, I don't see that multinationals or national businesses are going to much care about your hurt feelings. It's pretty clear that you're one of those angry, self-hating, Gender Studies grads who discovered that flipping burgers was the career path that Gender Studies provided.



Sorry, majored in history.  Have a pretty good career in logistics and supply chain.  Work for a large, multi-national corporation. 

Of course, I was able to get my degree 40 years ago by joining the national guard and working min. wage jobs until I graduated.  



Hollie said:


> I suppose you can stomp your feet or fall to the floor, kickungvand screaming because your tender sensibilities are offended by businesses which create jobs and hire. That kind of describes the angry, self-hating leftist who presumes an entitlement but must exist in a world where his tender sensibilities are not the first concern of everyone else.



You see, this is where you get confused.  Corporations don't create jobs, consumer demand does.  Corporations are just parasites that have convinced stupid people like you they are vital organs.  The reality is that we are in end-stage capitalism...


----------



## Hollie (Nov 7, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Do you have reading comprehension problems?  Did you just not read where the SUPREME COURT (Dominated by Republicans) ordered California to reduce it's prison population?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



With the country having continuing supply chain problems, it's time we get competent people in place who can address the problems, 

See, this is where you get befuddled. Corporations create jobs to meet a demand. Take a guess how many jobs people like John Chambers of Cisco Systems created. 

This is the problem when you Gender Studies grads with a Casio calculator think you understand economics.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 7, 2022)

Hollie said:


> With the country having continuing supply chain problems, it's time we get competent people in place who can address the problems,



The entire globe is having supply chain problems.  I will give you one great example.  I order a lot of components from Taiwan because it isn't cost effective to make them here.  Except that because of Covid, Taiwan couldn't import seasonal labor from the Philippines and Vietnam like they normally do.  Add in a few lockdowns and they are months behind. 

Add to that a shortage of shipping and port capacity  - both problems we had before Biden ever got there - and that's why you have supply chain problems.  

I've been doing this for 22 years, never seen it this bad.  



Hollie said:


> See, this is where you get befuddled. Corporations create jobs to meet a demand. Take a guess how many jobs people like John Chambers of Cisco Systems created.



Zero.  Those jobs were created by consumer demand.  You do understand you only have jobs when you have consumer demand.  That's why the Post-war period was so prosperous... we had a vibrant middle class with good wages creating consumer demand.  



Hollie said:


> This is the problem when you Gender Studies grads with a Casio calculator think you understand economics.



You do realize almost nobody gets a "Gender Studies" degree, right?  I mean, it's clear you never got anywhere near a college, but if you had, you'd know most college grads get degrees in useful things such as engineering, etc.


----------



## Hollie (Nov 7, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> The entire globe is having supply chain problems.  I will give you one great example.  I order a lot of components from Taiwan because it isn't cost effective to make them here.  Except that because of Covid, Taiwan couldn't import seasonal labor from the Philippines and Vietnam like they normally do.  Add in a few lockdowns and they are months behind.
> 
> Add to that a shortage of shipping and port capacity  - both problems we had before Biden ever got there - and that's why you have supply chain problems.
> 
> ...



You can excuse the failures incompetent Biden and leftist hacks with the expected, ''but everybody else....', nonsense but that excuse is getting old.


Remember to use ''I Blame Trump''.









						A Major Diesel Shortage Is Approaching Fast
					

USSA News. Breaking conservative news.




					ussanews.com
				







You now realize your Gender Studies degree is useless, right?


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 7, 2022)

Hollie said:


> You can excuse the failures incompetent Biden and leftist hacks with the expected,



Yawn, you have Biden on the brain...  The next six years will be awful for you.


----------



## Hollie (Nov 7, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Yawn, you have Biden on the brain...  The next six years will be awful for you.



I’m guessing you think Biden will be a candidate in 2024. That’s pretty darn funny. 

Biden and the dems are awful for everybody. 

Wouldn’t it be great to see Biden and the dems run on all there successes; recession, open borders, crime, supply chain disaster, inflation….


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 8, 2022)

Hollie said:


> I’m guessing you think Biden will be a candidate in 2024. That’s pretty darn funny.
> 
> Biden and the dems are awful for everybody.
> 
> Wouldn’t it be great to see Biden and the dems run on all there successes; recession, open borders, crime, supply chain disaster, inflation….



Still not clear if we are going to go into a recession yet...   

3.7% unemployment... that's a lot better than Trump's 15% unemployment, to be sure.  

Crime declined in 2021 from 2020, and will probably go down again in 2022.  

Now, I actually DO think that Biden probably won't run because of his age.   Pritzker or Newsom will probably run instead. 

But the biggest problem your side will have... is when women realize they have less rights than globs of tissue in their who-has.   Probably isn't going to sink in this year yet, but by 2024, it will.


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## Hollie (Nov 8, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Still not clear if we are going to go into a recession yet...
> 
> 3.7% unemployment... that's a lot better than Trump's 15% unemployment, to be sure.
> 
> ...


Just pretend the economy is not already in recession. That’s the Biden, (or whomever is in charge of Biden), politburo talking point. 

The biggest problem on your side, the failed leftist side, is your inability to effectively run on leftist policies. 

Why aren’t leftists running on the successes of their two years in control of the House, Senate and WH? 

Aren’t the combinations of recession, inflation, open borders, crime and people’s crashing 401k’s spectacular achievements to be a part of any election strategy?


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## JoeB131 (Nov 9, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Just pretend the economy is not already in recession. That’s the Biden, (or whomever is in charge of Biden), politburo talking point.
> 
> The biggest problem on your side, the failed leftist side, is your inability to effectively run on leftist policies.
> 
> ...



Yeah, you can't call it a recession when Q3 GDP growth was 2.3% and unemployment is at 3.7%.   That's not a recession. 
Oh, wait, the Red Wave is turning into a Red Trickle!


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## Hollie (Nov 9, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Yeah, you can't call it a recession when Q3 GDP growth was 2.3% and unemployment is at 3.7%.   That's not a recession.
> Oh, wait, the Red Wave is turning into a Red Trickle!


Yeah, you can call it a recession with two quarters of shrinking GDP.

Oh, wait. Leftists will lose the House.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 9, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Yeah, you can call it a recession with two quarters of shrinking GDP.
> 
> Oh, wait. Leftists will lose the House.



Only because of Gerrymandering, not because you've won anyone over.


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## Hollie (Nov 10, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Only because of Gerrymandering, not because you've won anyone over.


Election deniers. The syndrome that afflicts leftists.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 10, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Election deniers. The syndrome that afflicts leftists.



You guys are still under the delusion that Trump won in 2020.


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## Hollie (Nov 11, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> You guys are still under the delusion that Trump won in 2020.



You guys are under the delusion that your Party of Slavery is capable of doing anything but mismanaging.


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