# My Dogs Have Fleas



## Zoom-boing

So in the midst of all that happened the past six weeks (in addition to all the deaths, we had one month to get all my parents stuff out of their place, July 10 is the last day, plus I got very sick 6/21-6/27) the dogs never did get their flea med ... so we now have fleas!!  Damnit!!   Frontlined both dogs Tues, both cats Thurs, DE them daily, as well as the carpeting, sofas, dog bed.  Vacuuming daily (yeah, yeah I should do that anyway huh?).  Poor Penny, she has a super thick undercoat and was just gnawing away ... her skin in places is nearly bruised from chewing so much.  Put cortizone on those spots yesterday .... relief!  Got two fleas off of Dio (one yesterday), two fleas off of Shadow (old cat) yesterday.  How long before Frontline kills them all?  DE takes a few days as it dehydrates them.  I am concerned about any eggs that may be lurking.  This is all a first for us.  Cripes, like this is what we needed.


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## Samson

Zoom-boing said:


> So in the midst of all that happened the past six weeks (in addition to all the deaths, we had one month to get all my parents stuff out of their place, July 10 is the last day, plus I got very sick 6/21-6/27) the dogs never did get their flea med ... so we now have fleas!!  Damnit!!   Frontlined both dogs Tues, both cats Thurs, DE them daily, as well as the carpeting, sofas, dog bed.  Vacuuming daily (yeah, yeah I should do that anyway huh?).  Poor Penny, she has a super thick undercoat and was just gnawing away ... her skin in places is nearly bruised from chewing so much.  Put cortizone on those spots yesterday .... relief!  Got two fleas off of Dio (one yesterday), two fleas off of Shadow (old cat) yesterday.  How long before Frontline kills them all?  DE takes a few days as it dehydrates them.  I am concerned about any eggs that may be lurking.  This is all a first for us.  Cripes, like this is what we needed.



Holy Crap! Fleas!

Well, been nice knowing you Zoom......the Black Plague cannot be far behind, and really offers the only certain relief.

I've included this helpful diagram for your benefit:


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## Mr. H.

Be glad you're not singing this tune...




Seriously, good luck with all that.


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## Samson




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## Zoom-boing

I feel like I have OCD or something with this vacuuming everyday.  What the what?  Just got three fleas off Dio.  I thought Frontline was suppose to kill them within 72 hours?  At least they are starting to be affected by the DE, they are slowing down.  Just hoovered the bedroom thoroughly, everything washed, dumping the bedspread into a hot dryer, dogs and cats are locked out of there.  Dog bed has been doused in DE for two days and is going into the dryer soon.  Have to go make a cake.  The domestic chores are neverending!


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## alan1

Don't forget to vacuum the cat
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjc7izWREAY]World's Cleanest Cat BoBo & Vacuum Cleaner - YouTube[/ame]
and dog
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9y22VID_3w]Vacuuming the Corbs. - YouTube[/ame]


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## Katzndogz

I use Comfortis.  The fleas love frontline.

If your dogs have a serious infestation spring for the bucks and get Capstar.  In 30 minutes every flea, egg and larva is dead.  But it only works the one time.


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## Samson

FYI:

This is what swollen lymph nodes look like;


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## Sallow

Check for tape worms. They sometimes come with fleas.

Actually..make a visit to the vet.


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## Samson

Sallow said:


> Check for tape worms. They sometimes come with fleas.
> 
> Actually..make a visit to the vet.



Yes!

I'm sorry not to have thought of this too; THANKS SWALLOW!


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## Samson




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## Sallow

Samson said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Check for tape worms. They sometimes come with fleas.
> 
> Actually..make a visit to the vet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes!
> 
> I'm sorry not to have thought of this too; THANKS SWALLOW!
Click to expand...


You want to thank me with a swallow?

No thanks Samson.

I got a girlfriend for that.


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## Samson

Sallow said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Check for tape worms. They sometimes come with fleas.
> 
> Actually..make a visit to the vet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes!
> 
> I'm sorry not to have thought of this too; THANKS SWALLOW!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You want to thank me with a swallow?
> 
> No thanks Samson.
> 
> I got a girlfriend for that.
Click to expand...


I must admit, I'm relieved.


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## mudwhistle

I have a pretty passive cat but that was ridiculous.


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## HereWeGoAgain

No hard freeze last winter so they're bad in Texas this year.
The last dog I had that got fleas was when I was 10,and here I am with em this year.
 Think I got em licked though.


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## Samson

mudwhistle said:


> I have a pretty passive cat but that was ridiculous.



No, this is ridiculous:






Tape Worm Remover.

I wonder how much they get paid?


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## Kooshdakhaa

Zoom-boing said:


> I feel like I have OCD or something with this vacuuming everyday.  What the what?  Just got three fleas off Dio.  I thought Frontline was suppose to kill them within 72 hours?  At least they are starting to be affected by the DE, they are slowing down.  Just hoovered the bedroom thoroughly, everything washed, dumping the bedspread into a hot dryer, dogs and cats are locked out of there.  Dog bed has been doused in DE for two days and is going into the dryer soon.  Have to go make a cake.  The domestic chores are neverending!



Sounds like you are on the right track.  I took a stray dog in once and he had fleas and all of my animals got them!  I had eight animals at the time (I now have 12).

I did  Frontline on all the animals and also did all the things you are...the daily vacuuming, etc.  I also had a spray that I would spray on the carpeting that was supposed to kill them also.

I was lucky that this happened in September and I live in Alaska and it was freezing at night.  So I took all the cat beds and scratching posts outside and let them freeze for a week or so.  That took care of that. I might have done a second course of Frontline, just to make sure...I don't remember now.  But it wouldn't hurt.  Where I live we don't have to keep them on flea meds all the time.  Fleas don't survive outside here.


That was several years ago and I managed to eradicate the fleas and we've never had them since.  So hang in there!


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## Zoom-boing

Kooshdakhaa said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> I feel like I have OCD or something with this vacuuming everyday.  What the what?  Just got three fleas off Dio.  I thought Frontline was suppose to kill them within 72 hours?  At least they are starting to be affected by the DE, they are slowing down.  Just hoovered the bedroom thoroughly, everything washed, dumping the bedspread into a hot dryer, dogs and cats are locked out of there.  Dog bed has been doused in DE for two days and is going into the dryer soon.  Have to go make a cake.  The domestic chores are neverending!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you are on the right track.  I took a stray dog in once and he had fleas and all of my animals got them!  I had eight animals at the time (I now have 12).
> 
> I did  Frontline on all the animals and also did all the things you are...the daily vacuuming, etc.  I also had a spray that I would spray on the carpeting that was supposed to kill them also.
> 
> I was lucky that this happened in September and I live in Alaska and it was freezing at night.  So I took all the cat beds and scratching posts outside and let them freeze for a week or so.  That took care of that. I might have done a second course of Frontline, just to make sure...I don't remember now.  But it wouldn't hurt.  Where I live we don't have to keep them on flea meds all the time.  Fleas don't survive outside here.
> 
> 
> That was several years ago and I managed to eradicate the fleas and we've never had them since.  So hang in there!
Click to expand...



Well, I still got two live fleas off the one dog yesterday (frontline was given Tues) and two off the one cat (frontline given Thurs).  DE on them since Tues and Thurs.  Found two dead fleas on the ground this morning so I'm hoping it is all starting to work. 

The one cat was on a dark wood table bathing and such and after he jumped down there were flea eggs on the table and some flea dirt.  Cleaned that all up.  I hope the eggs were dead from the frontline but don't know.  

The frontline says to give once a month ... for active infestation can I give another round sooner than the one month mark?  

Just DEing them and things, washing, hot dryer, etc. for now though.  Can't believe we even have fleas at all.  Definitely a first.  They dogs seem a lot less itchy ... the cats are still bathing a lot more than usual and scratching.  Need to reapply the DE more because they lick it off. Meow.


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## HereWeGoAgain

Zoom-boing said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> I feel like I have OCD or something with this vacuuming everyday.  What the what?  Just got three fleas off Dio.  I thought Frontline was suppose to kill them within 72 hours?  At least they are starting to be affected by the DE, they are slowing down.  Just hoovered the bedroom thoroughly, everything washed, dumping the bedspread into a hot dryer, dogs and cats are locked out of there.  Dog bed has been doused in DE for two days and is going into the dryer soon.  Have to go make a cake.  The domestic chores are neverending!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you are on the right track.  I took a stray dog in once and he had fleas and all of my animals got them!  I had eight animals at the time (I now have 12).
> 
> I did  Frontline on all the animals and also did all the things you are...the daily vacuuming, etc.  I also had a spray that I would spray on the carpeting that was supposed to kill them also.
> 
> I was lucky that this happened in September and I live in Alaska and it was freezing at night.  So I took all the cat beds and scratching posts outside and let them freeze for a week or so.  That took care of that. I might have done a second course of Frontline, just to make sure...I don't remember now.  But it wouldn't hurt.  Where I live we don't have to keep them on flea meds all the time.  Fleas don't survive outside here.
> 
> 
> That was several years ago and I managed to eradicate the fleas and we've never had them since.  So hang in there!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I still got two live fleas off the one dog yesterday (frontline was given Tues) and two off the one cat (frontline given Thurs).  DE on them since Tues and Thurs.  Found two dead fleas on the ground this morning so I'm hoping it is all starting to work.
> 
> The one cat was on a dark wood table bathing and such and after he jumped down there were flea eggs on the table and some flea dirt.  Cleaned that all up.  I hope the eggs were dead from the frontline but don't know.
> 
> The frontline says to give once a month ... for active infestation can I give another round sooner than the one month mark?
> 
> Just DEing them and things, washing, hot dryer, etc. for now though.  Can't believe we even have fleas at all.  Definitely a first.  They dogs seem a lot less itchy ... the cats are still bathing a lot more than usual and scratching.  Need to reapply the DE more because they lick it off. Meow.
Click to expand...


  Did you spray the yard? That makes all the difference.
And you need to spray everything twice waiting a couple of weeks between or you first see young fleas the second time. Catching them before they lay eggs is important.
I've got hardwood and tile downstairs and the dogs dont go upstairs so it wasn't horrible. If you have carpet to deal with it's a little tougher. 
 But the main thing is to treat repeatedly until you've wiped em out.
And keep the pets well protected so the fleas have nothing to eat.


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## syrenn

fleas!!! I HATE fleas... mainly becasue they bite me just as bad as they bite the cats....and it leaves scars. 

i prefer advantage to frontline... just a personal choice i guess. Wait a few days and then flea dip and bathe them all.  

watch for worms... and or just go and get them all treated at the vet. If they are chewing they more then likely ingested a flea....  

saniwash all of their bedding. 

use a flea comb

treat the yard

i use this on the carpets and pet beds... it gets the eggs and breaks the life cycle 
Siphotrol Plus II Premise Spray (16oz)

if your pets have heavy undercoats try a furminiator
Shop Pet Grooming Cleaning & De-Shedding Supplies Online | FURminator®


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## IrishTexanChick

I use Comfortis.  It's a once a month flea/tick med that is amazing.  I used to use Frontline Plus.  Here in Texas, the fleas/etc are here all year long.
You can only get it from the Vet.


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## mudwhistle

IrishTexanChick said:


> I use Comfortis.  It's a once a month flea/tick med that is amazing.  I used to use Frontline Plus.  Here in Texas, the fleas/etc are here all year long.
> You can only get it from the Vet.



You have fleas??????


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## Zoom-boing

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you are on the right track.  I took a stray dog in once and he had fleas and all of my animals got them!  I had eight animals at the time (I now have 12).
> 
> I did  Frontline on all the animals and also did all the things you are...the daily vacuuming, etc.  I also had a spray that I would spray on the carpeting that was supposed to kill them also.
> 
> I was lucky that this happened in September and I live in Alaska and it was freezing at night.  So I took all the cat beds and scratching posts outside and let them freeze for a week or so.  That took care of that. I might have done a second course of Frontline, just to make sure...I don't remember now.  But it wouldn't hurt.  Where I live we don't have to keep them on flea meds all the time.  Fleas don't survive outside here.
> 
> 
> That was several years ago and I managed to eradicate the fleas and we've never had them since.  So hang in there!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I still got two live fleas off the one dog yesterday (frontline was given Tues) and two off the one cat (frontline given Thurs).  DE on them since Tues and Thurs.  Found two dead fleas on the ground this morning so I'm hoping it is all starting to work.
> 
> The one cat was on a dark wood table bathing and such and after he jumped down there were flea eggs on the table and some flea dirt.  Cleaned that all up.  I hope the eggs were dead from the frontline but don't know.
> 
> The frontline says to give once a month ... for active infestation can I give another round sooner than the one month mark?
> 
> Just DEing them and things, washing, hot dryer, etc. for now though.  Can't believe we even have fleas at all.  Definitely a first.  They dogs seem a lot less itchy ... the cats are still bathing a lot more than usual and scratching.  Need to reapply the DE more because they lick it off. Meow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you spray the yard? That makes all the difference.
> And you need to spray everything twice waiting a couple of weeks between or you first see young fleas the second time. Catching them before they lay eggs is important.
> I've got hardwood and tile downstairs and the dogs dont go upstairs so it wasn't horrible. If you have carpet to deal with it's a little tougher.
> But the main thing is to treat repeatedly until you've wiped em out.
> And keep the pets well protected so the fleas have nothing to eat.
Click to expand...


Yup, hubs sprayed the yard last week and will do so again.  The bitey bugs are awful this year.  We got mulch 6 weeks ago and bugs were all over it when we were putting it down (2 yards of it is still in the drive .... cripes, what a long, long six weeks it's been).  Don't know if the fleas were in the mulch or just in the yard.  Never had them before.

The DE gets worked into the carpet and can remain there and reapplied after vacuuming.  Found more dead fleas on the hard floor this evening ... one was writhing around dying.  Yes!

For anyone interested:  Food grade diatomaceous earth for flea and tick treatment.


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## Zoom-boing

syrenn said:


> fleas!!! I HATE fleas... mainly becasue they bite me just as bad as they bite the cats....and it leaves scars.
> 
> i prefer advantage to frontline... just a personal choice i guess. Wait a few days and then flea dip and bathe them all.
> 
> watch for worms... and or just go and get them all treated at the vet. If they are chewing they more then likely ingested a flea....
> 
> saniwash all of their bedding.
> 
> use a flea comb
> 
> treat the yard
> 
> i use this on the carpets and pet beds... it gets the eggs and breaks the life cycle
> Siphotrol Plus II Premise Spray (16oz)
> 
> if your pets have heavy undercoats try a furminiator
> Shop Pet Grooming Cleaning & De-Shedding Supplies Online | FURminator®



The DE will take care of any worms, so I'm not too worried about that.  Finn had worms when we found him and they were cleared up within a couple of weeks.  

Furminators are GREAT.  Penny is the dog with the mega undercoat ... it's like there's another dog in there.  I haven't actually seen a flea on her but from the biting she was doing she def had/has them. Tomorrow more vacuuming and cleaning.  I put Penny's dog bed in the dryer on high heat for nearly an hour.  Think that's enough to kill the eggs/fleas?  If not I need to make a run to the laundrymat.

Does Advantage have different ingredients vs. Frontline?  I really thought the FL would have dropped the fleas sooner and I'm not sure if now they're dying from that or the DE.  I have three doses left of the FL for the dogs, but only one for the cats so I might need to buy more.  I tried Vectra from the vet last year for bitey bugs but didn't think it was very good.


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## skye

I use Advantage for cats.

There is also one for dogs!  

It's very good.


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## Sunshine

Zoom-boing said:


> So in the midst of all that happened the past six weeks (in addition to all the deaths, we had one month to get all my parents stuff out of their place, July 10 is the last day, plus I got very sick 6/21-6/27) the dogs never did get their flea med ... so we now have fleas!!  Damnit!!   Frontlined both dogs Tues, both cats Thurs, DE them daily, as well as the carpeting, sofas, dog bed.  Vacuuming daily (yeah, yeah I should do that anyway huh?).  Poor Penny, she has a super thick undercoat and was just gnawing away ... her skin in places is nearly bruised from chewing so much.  Put cortizone on those spots yesterday .... relief!  Got two fleas off of Dio (one yesterday), two fleas off of Shadow (old cat) yesterday.  How long before Frontline kills them all?  DE takes a few days as it dehydrates them.  I am concerned about any eggs that may be lurking.  This is all a first for us.  Cripes, like this is what we needed.



If you have them exterminated the only thing that will kill everything including the eggs and larvae is Saffritin.  It is effective, and a lot of exterminators use something that has to be applied every month.  It's all about the money.  Usually, you have to ask for the Saffritin.


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## syrenn

Zoom-boing said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fleas!!! I HATE fleas... mainly becasue they bite me just as bad as they bite the cats....and it leaves scars.
> 
> i prefer advantage to frontline... just a personal choice i guess. Wait a few days and then flea dip and bathe them all.
> 
> watch for worms... and or just go and get them all treated at the vet. If they are chewing they more then likely ingested a flea....
> 
> saniwash all of their bedding.
> 
> use a flea comb
> 
> treat the yard
> 
> i use this on the carpets and pet beds... it gets the eggs and breaks the life cycle
> Siphotrol Plus II Premise Spray (16oz)
> 
> if your pets have heavy undercoats try a furminiator
> Shop Pet Grooming Cleaning & De-Shedding Supplies Online | FURminator®
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The DE will take care of any worms, so I'm not too worried about that.  Finn had worms when we found him and they were cleared up within a couple of weeks.
> 
> Furminators are GREAT.  Penny is the dog with the mega undercoat ... it's like there's another dog in there.  I haven't actually seen a flea on her but from the biting she was doing she def had/has them. Tomorrow more vacuuming and cleaning.  I put Penny's dog bed in the dryer on high heat for nearly an hour.  Think that's enough to kill the eggs/fleas?  If not I need to make a run to the laundrymat.
> 
> Does Advantage have different ingredients vs. Frontline?  I really thought the FL would have dropped the fleas sooner and I'm not sure if now they're dying from that or the DE.  I have three doses left of the FL for the dogs, but only one for the cats so I might need to buy more.  I tried Vectra from the vet last year for bitey bugs but didn't think it was very good.
Click to expand...


frontline and advantage are a bit different. Both work on the same basic idea.... break the life cycle...egg to adult biting flea. Frontline takes care of ticks.... i dont think advantage does (not sure) but my cats are all indoor so ive never really worried about that. Make no mistake... both are a poison oil....so don't let them lick it.  

i require a FAST acting flea control....and i think advantage is better for a faster kill time over frontline Advantage works within an hour or so. I foster kittens...and bring them into my flea free environment... a fast killing is important if i see them on a kitten... becasue if the fleas break kitten room containment..... im screwed! (but very very prepared to deal with it) Also... be sure to follow up with it next month. 

for the biting.... they also may be reacting to the "flee dirt"... the blood waste product that fleas produce. I would suggest a bath with a nice oatmeal conditioner rinse to sooth the skin. 

i would wash all the bedding...with bleach on hot water wash. If it has a sani rinse...do that too.... and then send it through again on just hot water to make sure you rinse out all bleach. 

the flea spray i suggested works on furniture... so if your pets get up on your sofas.... spray them down too. 

yes...i am a bit crazy about clean.... and fleas.


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## IrishTexanChick

mudwhistle said:


> IrishTexanChick said:
> 
> 
> 
> I use Comfortis.  It's a once a month flea/tick med that is amazing.  I used to use Frontline Plus.  Here in Texas, the fleas/etc are here all year long.
> You can only get it from the Vet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have fleas??????
Click to expand...


Nope.  I got Cooties....lol.

Beam me up...


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## Caroljo

Zoom-boing said:


> So in the midst of all that happened the past six weeks (in addition to all the deaths, we had one month to get all my parents stuff out of their place, July 10 is the last day, plus I got very sick 6/21-6/27) the dogs never did get their flea med ... so we now have fleas!!  Damnit!!   Frontlined both dogs Tues, both cats Thurs, DE them daily, as well as the carpeting, sofas, dog bed.  Vacuuming daily (yeah, yeah I should do that anyway huh?).  Poor Penny, she has a super thick undercoat and was just gnawing away ... her skin in places is nearly bruised from chewing so much.  Put cortizone on those spots yesterday .... relief!  Got two fleas off of Dio (one yesterday), two fleas off of Shadow (old cat) yesterday.  How long before Frontline kills them all?  DE takes a few days as it dehydrates them.  I am concerned about any eggs that may be lurking.  This is all a first for us.  Cripes, like this is what we needed.




I didn't read every post....but a really good thing to use at first even before using the vet flea stuff, is bath your dog with Blue Dial dish soap!  Google it!  The Blue dial is good for SOOOO many things....we used it on our dog and it killed them off pretty quickly.  We then used some stuff from the vet (can't remember the name!) and we haven't been bothered anymore!


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## syrenn

Caroljo said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> So in the midst of all that happened the past six weeks (in addition to all the deaths, we had one month to get all my parents stuff out of their place, July 10 is the last day, plus I got very sick 6/21-6/27) the dogs never did get their flea med ... so we now have fleas!!  Damnit!!   Frontlined both dogs Tues, both cats Thurs, DE them daily, as well as the carpeting, sofas, dog bed.  Vacuuming daily (yeah, yeah I should do that anyway huh?).  Poor Penny, she has a super thick undercoat and was just gnawing away ... her skin in places is nearly bruised from chewing so much.  Put cortizone on those spots yesterday .... relief!  Got two fleas off of Dio (one yesterday), two fleas off of Shadow (old cat) yesterday.  How long before Frontline kills them all?  DE takes a few days as it dehydrates them.  I am concerned about any eggs that may be lurking.  This is all a first for us.  Cripes, like this is what we needed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't read every post....but a really good thing to use at first even before using the vet flea stuff, is bath your dog with Blue Dial dish soap!  Google it!  The Blue dial is good for SOOOO many things....we used it on our dog and it killed them off pretty quickly.  We then used some stuff from the vet (can't remember the name!) and we haven't been bothered anymore!
Click to expand...

Dial

or 

Dawn?

I know Dawn is gentle enough to bathe your pets. It has been used extensively to clean wildlife after oil spills. It does not so much "kill" fleas but removes the fleas from your pets as you bathe them. It will not kill eggs or larva.


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## KissMy

Frontline used to be great, but the fleas have mutated to become resistant to it. I took my remaining supply back to the vet & got my money back. I am now using Comfortis & Happy Jack spray. The fleas & ticks fall off instantly. Someone told me fleas hate the smell of Palmolive dish soap.


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## Caroljo

syrenn said:


> Caroljo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> So in the midst of all that happened the past six weeks (in addition to all the deaths, we had one month to get all my parents stuff out of their place, July 10 is the last day, plus I got very sick 6/21-6/27) the dogs never did get their flea med ... so we now have fleas!!  Damnit!!   Frontlined both dogs Tues, both cats Thurs, DE them daily, as well as the carpeting, sofas, dog bed.  Vacuuming daily (yeah, yeah I should do that anyway huh?).  Poor Penny, she has a super thick undercoat and was just gnawing away ... her skin in places is nearly bruised from chewing so much.  Put cortizone on those spots yesterday .... relief!  Got two fleas off of Dio (one yesterday), two fleas off of Shadow (old cat) yesterday.  How long before Frontline kills them all?  DE takes a few days as it dehydrates them.  I am concerned about any eggs that may be lurking.  This is all a first for us.  Cripes, like this is what we needed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't read every post....but a really good thing to use at first even before using the vet flea stuff, is bath your dog with Blue Dial dish soap!  Google it!  The Blue dial is good for SOOOO many things....we used it on our dog and it killed them off pretty quickly.  We then used some stuff from the vet (can't remember the name!) and we haven't been bothered anymore!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dial
> 
> or
> 
> Dawn?
> 
> I know Dawn is gentle enough to bathe your pets. It has been used extensively to clean wildlife after oil spills. It does not so much "kill" fleas but removes the fleas from your pets as you bathe them. It will not kill eggs or larva.
Click to expand...


Oh crap! You're right....it's DAWN!!  I know it doesn't kill them, that's why i said you also need to get the flea stuff from the vet, but it takes them off.  Any way it works pretty good


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## jan

You can also bomb your house with a total release aerosol that's available at most stores or your vet.  You'll have to leave the house for a couple hours with your pets, but it sure would help to kill anything in the carpet, couch, chairs etc.  Check the label for the amount of square footage the aerosol bomb covers and buy enough bombs to cover your space.  Place couch cushions on their edge to get both sides and underneath the cushions as well.


----------



## Zoom-boing

KissMy said:


> Frontline used to be great, but the fleas have mutated to become resistant to it. I took my remaining supply back to the vet & got my money back. I am now using Comfortis & Happy Jack spray. The fleas & ticks fall off instantly. Someone told me fleas hate the smell of Palmolive dish soap.



I was reading up on the Frontline (which has worked great for us in the past) and it said that if your pets don't have fleas the FL will prevent an outbreak because the fleas will land on your pet, bite it and die.  But if your pets already have fleas you have to give it time.  The adult fleas will bite and die but any eggs that hatch ... those fleas have to bite the pet and then will die.  I think we're seeing that now.  It's been one week since the dogs got the FL and they are much, much less itchy.  Haven't seen any on our thick coated dog (and I've looked) or on our other dog (but he's black so it's hard to see).  The fleas are def still on the cats, just got one off this a.m. and saw another then saw another jump off the cat.  But we're seeing them on the floor dying so I'm thinking eggs hatched and those fleas are now dying.  It's such a pain.  I'll use up the FL we have and if the fleas are eliminated then I'll stick with it; if not, I'll try a different brand.  Thx for the info though!


----------



## Zoom-boing

jan said:


> You can also bomb your house with a total release aerosol that's available at most stores or your vet.  You'll have to leave the house for a couple hours with your pets, but it sure would help to kill anything in the carpet, couch, chairs etc.  Check the label for the amount of square footage the aerosol bomb covers and buy enough bombs to cover your space.  Place couch cushions on their edge to get both sides and underneath the cushions as well.



I'm trying not to go the flea bomb route.  Getting the dogs out of the house would be ok but the cats?  Won't happen, especially our grumpy old cat.   Don't like the idea of pesticide on every single surface of the house either.  The DE and vacuuming daily is helping a lot and hopefully that, combined with the FL, will eliminate the little buggers.  What purpose do fleas serve anyway?    Stupid pests is all they are.


----------



## Samson

Zoom-boing said:


> jan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can also bomb your house with a total release aerosol that's available at most stores or your vet.  You'll have to leave the house for a couple hours with your pets, but it sure would help to kill anything in the carpet, couch, chairs etc.  Check the label for the amount of square footage the aerosol bomb covers and buy enough bombs to cover your space.  Place couch cushions on their edge to get both sides and underneath the cushions as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm trying not to go the flea bomb route.  Getting the dogs out of the house would be ok but the cats?  Won't happen, especially our grumpy old cat.   Don't like the idea of pesticide on every single surface of the house either.  The DE and vacuuming daily is helping a lot and hopefully that, combined with the FL, will eliminate the little buggers.  What purpose do fleas serve anyway?    Stupid pests is all they are.
Click to expand...


Well, without fleas, the Bubonic Plague Bacterium, Yersinia pestis, would have a tough time surviving.


----------



## Katzndogz

If you have carpet don't use a flea bomb.  Treat your carpet with non toxic diatomaceous earth.  It's very cheap.  Kills fleas in minutes and lasts for several year.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Katzen is on the right track and its true the bomb won't work. But what works better than diatomaceous earth and is way cheaper is Twenty Mule Team Borax. Its also easier to get.

Borax is made of mined boron which is a naturally occurring desiccant. It works by breaking down the exoskeleton of insects. If you have ticks, spiders, cockroaches, ants, etc, it will also kill them. Best of all, and this is the reason why bombs and poisons do not work, it kills all phases of the insect's life. If you dip for fleas/ticks, it will kill the pests that are on the animal at that moment but more will hatch. Not only that, you have put your pet and your family at risk because of the poison. 

Buy a box of Twenty Mule Team Borax in the laundry aisle. When you get home, vacuum really well. Put maybe a half cup of the borax into the vac bag and remove the bag from the house completely.  

Run a narrow but solid line of borax along all of your walls. In addition, scatter it freely on CARPETED closet floors, on the animals' bedding, on carpeted areas where the animals lay. You can also scatter it in between couch cushions and similar places.

Important: DO NOT put it directly on any of the animals and DO NOT scatter it on bare floors. If you do put it on the animals, its possible it could cause the skin to break down. On bare floors, its very slippery. 

In the future, you can clean as usual and replace the thin and solid line of borax along your baseboards -OR - you can be a bit lazy and not disturb the borax, cleaning more completely in the center areas of each room. 

When you vacuum, remove the bag from from the house and put a fresh bag in every time you vacuum. 

Continue to use Frontline but your fleas will be gone in a few weeks. 

The borax is non-toxic and cheap. And, it really does work.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Caroljo said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Caroljo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't read every post....but a really good thing to use at first even before using the vet flea stuff, is bath your dog with Blue Dial dish soap!  Google it!  The Blue dial is good for SOOOO many things....we used it on our dog and it killed them off pretty quickly.  We then used some stuff from the vet (can't remember the name!) and we haven't been bothered anymore!
> 
> 
> 
> Dial
> 
> or
> 
> Dawn?
> 
> I know Dawn is gentle enough to bathe your pets. It has been used extensively to clean wildlife after oil spills. It does not so much "kill" fleas but removes the fleas from your pets as you bathe them. It will not kill eggs or larva.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh crap! You're right....it's DAWN!!  I know it doesn't kill them, that's why i said you also need to get the flea stuff from the vet, but it takes them off.  Any way it works pretty good
Click to expand...



Dawn is a very harsh detergent. Its not a soap. That's why its used to cut through oil. BUT, that oil is then replaced before the animal is released. It will wreak havoc on your poor animals' skin and won't do anything to even slow a flea infestation. 

Don't use it on your dishes either. It contains Quanternium-15 which, when added to water, releases formaldehyde.


----------



## PixieStix

Zoom-boing said:


> So in the midst of all that happened the past six weeks (in addition to all the deaths, we had one month to get all my parents stuff out of their place, July 10 is the last day, plus I got very sick 6/21-6/27) the dogs never did get their flea med ... so we now have fleas!!  Damnit!!   Frontlined both dogs Tues, both cats Thurs, DE them daily, as well as the carpeting, sofas, dog bed.  Vacuuming daily (yeah, yeah I should do that anyway huh?).  Poor Penny, she has a super thick undercoat and was just gnawing away ... her skin in places is nearly bruised from chewing so much.  Put cortizone on those spots yesterday .... relief!  Got two fleas off of Dio (one yesterday), two fleas off of Shadow (old cat) yesterday.  How long before Frontline kills them all?  DE takes a few days as it dehydrates them.  I am concerned about any eggs that may be lurking.  This is all a first for us.  Cripes, like this is what we needed.



Frontline sucks. A waste of money

Revolution is very affective. Not only does it kill fleas and eggs, it repells them and prevents and kills ear mites


----------



## IrishTexanChick

Oh hey....I just remembered.  You can sit a bowl of 1/2 dawn and 1/2 water on the floor and the fleas jump in.  Just make sure you put it where Fido doesn't think it's a drink.  
WOW....I remember.....from science class.  Who says I have drug damage?!?!


----------



## Zoom-boing

Katzndogz said:


> If you have carpet don't use a flea bomb.  Treat your carpet with non toxic diatomaceous earth.  It's very cheap.  Kills fleas in minutes and lasts for several year.



That's what I've been doing.  DE is great.  I give it to the animals daily as a preventative for internal worms/parasites and have had it on them since we realized they had fleas. I also put a bunch in the vacuum bag to dry up any eggs/larva I hoovered up.  I find it takes a bit to kill them (it cuts their exoskeletons and they dehydrate) but it works.  Anyone interested in it here's a link for tons of info:  Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth for Mites, Parasites & Morgellons

Always make sure it's FOOD GRADE DE, not the stuff used for swimming pools.


----------



## Zoom-boing

PixieStix said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> So in the midst of all that happened the past six weeks (in addition to all the deaths, we had one month to get all my parents stuff out of their place, July 10 is the last day, plus I got very sick 6/21-6/27) the dogs never did get their flea med ... so we now have fleas!!  Damnit!!   Frontlined both dogs Tues, both cats Thurs, DE them daily, as well as the carpeting, sofas, dog bed.  Vacuuming daily (yeah, yeah I should do that anyway huh?).  Poor Penny, she has a super thick undercoat and was just gnawing away ... her skin in places is nearly bruised from chewing so much.  Put cortizone on those spots yesterday .... relief!  Got two fleas off of Dio (one yesterday), two fleas off of Shadow (old cat) yesterday.  How long before Frontline kills them all?  DE takes a few days as it dehydrates them.  I am concerned about any eggs that may be lurking.  This is all a first for us.  Cripes, like this is what we needed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Frontline sucks. A waste of money
> 
> Revolution is very affective. Not only does it kill fleas and eggs, it repells them and prevents and kills ear mites
Click to expand...


Hey, thanks for this. Hadn't heard of Revolution will look into it.  FL has worked for us (as a preventative) in the past.  Never experienced fleas so am taking it one step at a time.  I think everything is working ... but we'll see. 

Still seeing live fleas one week after FL and DE applied, cleaning like crazy.  Picked five or six live fleas off of the dogs last night.  But I can get them, they're not jumping around so I think it is all working.  We likely had fleas in here for a few weeks so eggs are still hatching and all.

Also, poor old Shadow cat has ear mites (which we thought the itching and scratching was strictly flea related).  His fur is nearly all out in places.  I put ear mite drops in his ears last night ... immediate relief.  Will be eradicating them as well.  

When it rains it pours!


----------



## Zoom-boing

Luddly Neddite said:


> Katzen is on the right track and its true the bomb won't work. But what works better than diatomaceous earth and is way cheaper is Twenty Mule Team Borax. Its also easier to get.
> 
> Borax is made of mined boron which is a naturally occurring desiccant. It works by breaking down the exoskeleton of insects. If you have ticks, spiders, cockroaches, ants, etc, it will also kill them. Best of all, and this is the reason why bombs and poisons do not work, it kills all phases of the insect's life. If you dip for fleas/ticks, it will kill the pests that are on the animal at that moment but more will hatch. Not only that, you have put your pet and your family at risk because of the poison.
> 
> Buy a box of Twenty Mule Team Borax in the laundry aisle. When you get home, vacuum really well. Put maybe a half cup of the borax into the vac bag and remove the bag from the house completely.
> 
> Run a narrow but solid line of borax along all of your walls. In addition, scatter it freely on CARPETED closet floors, on the animals' bedding, on carpeted areas where the animals lay. You can also scatter it in between couch cushions and similar places.
> 
> Important: DO NOT put it directly on any of the animals and DO NOT scatter it on bare floors. If you do put it on the animals, its possible it could cause the skin to break down. On bare floors, its very slippery.
> 
> In the future, you can clean as usual and replace the thin and solid line of borax along your baseboards -OR - you can be a bit lazy and not disturb the borax, cleaning more completely in the center areas of each room.
> 
> When you vacuum, remove the bag from from the house and put a fresh bag in every time you vacuum.
> 
> Continue to use Frontline but your fleas will be gone in a few weeks.
> 
> The borax is non-toxic and cheap. And, it really does work.




This is essentially what diatomaceous earth (DE) does and what I've been doing.  The Borax may not be safe if ingested and since we've got two cats and the dogs licking/biting where the fleas get them, we're using the DE.  I use Borax in the wash ... hard water and no phosphates means the detergent needs a booster.   Thanks for the info, Luddly.


----------



## PixieStix

Luddly Neddite said:


> Katzen is on the right track and its true the bomb won't work. But what works better than diatomaceous earth and is way cheaper is Twenty Mule Team Borax. Its also easier to get.
> 
> Borax is made of mined boron which is a naturally occurring desiccant. It works by breaking down the exoskeleton of insects. If you have ticks, spiders, cockroaches, ants, etc, it will also kill them. Best of all, and this is the reason why bombs and poisons do not work, it kills all phases of the insect's life. If you dip for fleas/ticks, it will kill the pests that are on the animal at that moment but more will hatch. Not only that, you have put your pet and your family at risk because of the poison.
> 
> Buy a box of Twenty Mule Team Borax in the laundry aisle. When you get home, vacuum really well. Put maybe a half cup of the borax into the vac bag and remove the bag from the house completely.
> 
> Run a narrow but solid line of borax along all of your walls. In addition, scatter it freely on CARPETED closet floors, on the animals' bedding, on carpeted areas where the animals lay. You can also scatter it in between couch cushions and similar places.
> 
> Important: DO NOT put it directly on any of the animals and DO NOT scatter it on bare floors. If you do put it on the animals, its possible it could cause the skin to break down. On bare floors, its very slippery.
> 
> In the future, you can clean as usual and replace the thin and solid line of borax along your baseboards -OR - you can be a bit lazy and not disturb the borax, cleaning more completely in the center areas of each room.
> 
> When you vacuum, remove the bag from from the house and put a fresh bag in every time you vacuum.
> 
> Continue to use Frontline but your fleas will be gone in a few weeks.
> 
> The borax is non-toxic and cheap. And, it really does work.



It does not have to be that complicated.


----------



## Samson

Well Zoom I'm happy you've survived this long.

You may want to use this flyer as a template for the ones you'll put up around the neighborhood


----------



## koshergrl

I freaking hate fleas.

I had an infestation about 20 years ago that gave me PTSD. I didn't even have carpets, and it was a NIGHTMARE. We got them from coyotes and god knows what else around our house..which was out in the middle of wheat fields, across from a subirrigated cow pasture...Once we got them they were hard to get rid of because the minute you stepped outside, they were waiting and all over you. I'd walk across my front yard and there would be 10 of them sticking to my booties above my tennis shoes.

I fogged, and waited 3 weeks, and fogged, and waited 3 weeks, and fogged, and ... you get the idea.

The eggs survive for 3 weeks...and fleas can last I don't know how long without food...and they don't have to have blood they can live off the grunge and crap on your floors...old skin, stuff like that..they're nasty.

Then one bites you, lays 1000 eggs and you're off again.

Lay waste, and elminate them. They carry not only the plague but also TAPEWORMS, which spend a part of their lifestyle inside fleas...which are then accidentally ingested and guess what? You have a big old tape worm.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Zoom-boing said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Katzen is on the right track and its true the bomb won't work. But what works better than diatomaceous earth and is way cheaper is Twenty Mule Team Borax. Its also easier to get.
> 
> Borax is made of mined boron which is a naturally occurring desiccant. It works by breaking down the exoskeleton of insects. If you have ticks, spiders, cockroaches, ants, etc, it will also kill them. Best of all, and this is the reason why bombs and poisons do not work, it kills all phases of the insect's life. If you dip for fleas/ticks, it will kill the pests that are on the animal at that moment but more will hatch. Not only that, you have put your pet and your family at risk because of the poison.
> 
> Buy a box of Twenty Mule Team Borax in the laundry aisle. When you get home, vacuum really well. Put maybe a half cup of the borax into the vac bag and remove the bag from the house completely.
> 
> Run a narrow but solid line of borax along all of your walls. In addition, scatter it freely on CARPETED closet floors, on the animals' bedding, on carpeted areas where the animals lay. You can also scatter it in between couch cushions and similar places.
> 
> Important: DO NOT put it directly on any of the animals and DO NOT scatter it on bare floors. If you do put it on the animals, its possible it could cause the skin to break down. On bare floors, its very slippery.
> 
> In the future, you can clean as usual and replace the thin and solid line of borax along your baseboards -OR - you can be a bit lazy and not disturb the borax, cleaning more completely in the center areas of each room.
> 
> When you vacuum, remove the bag from from the house and put a fresh bag in every time you vacuum.
> 
> Continue to use Frontline but your fleas will be gone in a few weeks.
> 
> The borax is non-toxic and cheap. And, it really does work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is essentially what diatomaceous earth (DE) does and what I've been doing.  The Borax may not be safe if ingested and since we've got two cats and the dogs licking/biting where the fleas get them, we're using the DE.  I use Borax in the wash ... hard water and no phosphates means the detergent needs a booster.   Thanks for the info, Luddly.
Click to expand...


Boron is non-toxic and much safer to ingest than the silicon dioxide in diatomaceous earth. If you want to know more about any possible toxicity of boron, there's an 800 number on the side of the box. Call and ask to talk to the toxicologist. They will tell you the absolute truth, including the LD-50 and Draize results. Ask them. 

(When I was doing non-animal testing of boron, I happened on my 2-3yo grand daughter with a small container of it in her hand and the white powder on her lips. The toxicologist told me she would have to eat several cups of it to have any effect and that the only thing I would likely notice would be that her stool would have a greenish cast to it.)

Some people would actually put either or both on their animal but that will cause extreme skin irritation that will be very hard to get rid of. The poor animals will be biting and chewing at themselves and you would be setting the up for long term and very expensive problems. The original irritation very quickly becomes a bacterial/fungal infection of the skin which you'll have to treat. (Does the dog have an odor to his skin? Its especially noticeable when he first comes in from outside. Skin on back is flaky? Skin on belly red and inflamed?) If you don't get rid of the fleas, that skin irritation will just get worse and the cycle becomes very difficult to treat. 

If you put a strong desiccant like either boron or DE directly on the skin, it will begin to break down the skin. That's how it works on the pests. 

Note that both DE and boron remain effective unless and until they become wet. Don't put either outside - its just a waste. Don't use spray poisons outside - they don't work. 

Nothing I have described is particularly "complicated" but you do have to make a commitment to deal with the problem and it sounds like you have done that. 

By all means, if you wish, go ahead and use the DE as I have described though. Its a lot more expensive and it will take longer to work but it works the same way - eg - its a desiccant. The biggest difference is that silicon dioxide is toxic.

http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/factsheets/4081fact.pdf

Diatomaceous Earth General Fact Sheet

A human health risk assessment of bo... [Regul Toxicol Pharmacol. 1995] - PubMed - NCBI

The Borax Conspiracy: Big Pharma's Latest Ploy to Outlaw a Natural Cure for Arthritis, Osteoporosis and Tooth Decay (July 6, 2012)

I've used boron for more than 30 years with 100% success and never one problem. But, please don't take my word for this. Do your own research.


----------



## koshergrl

I use borax based ant killer.

And it WORKS.


----------



## skye

and if nothing else works .....I suggest  the OP   to get some professional Pest Control quotes  choose one and let them do it.

May be  it'll be worth in the end.


----------



## itfitzme

Zoom-boing said:


> So in the midst of all that happened the past six weeks (in addition to all the deaths, we had one month to get all my parents stuff out of their place, July 10 is the last day, plus I got very sick 6/21-6/27) the dogs never did get their flea med ... so we now have fleas!!  Damnit!!   Frontlined both dogs Tues, both cats Thurs, DE them daily, as well as the carpeting, sofas, dog bed.  Vacuuming daily (yeah, yeah I should do that anyway huh?).  Poor Penny, she has a super thick undercoat and was just gnawing away ... her skin in places is nearly bruised from chewing so much.  Put cortizone on those spots yesterday .... relief!  Got two fleas off of Dio (one yesterday), two fleas off of Shadow (old cat) yesterday.  How long before Frontline kills them all?  DE takes a few days as it dehydrates them.  I am concerned about any eggs that may be lurking.  This is all a first for us.  Cripes, like this is what we needed.


-

And, you have to do the carpets, dog bedding, even your bedding to.  The flea life cycle included laying eggs off the animals.. If you don't treat the surroundings, they come right back.

Been there, done that. And seen friends that didn't and never got rid of them.

I litterally pushed all the furnature to the sidea of the room, used a big sprayer with gallons of spray, did the center, moved furnature to the center, did the edges, put everything back.  Then spray outside the perimeter, strip in the garage, spray cloths, wash.

The little f'ers are nasty.  Some people are natural attracters, something in their blood. Friend ended up in hospital with an intercellular infection from a bite.  

*IT'S WAR!!!!!  AND FLEAS ARE THE ENEMY*  Little f'ers..


----------



## itfitzme

*I F'IN HATE FLEAS*

I had to get it out....  Yeah, flea PTSD is right.

PT-Flea-D


----------



## syrenn

itfitzme said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> So in the midst of all that happened the past six weeks (in addition to all the deaths, we had one month to get all my parents stuff out of their place, July 10 is the last day, plus I got very sick 6/21-6/27) the dogs never did get their flea med ... so we now have fleas!!  Damnit!!   Frontlined both dogs Tues, both cats Thurs, DE them daily, as well as the carpeting, sofas, dog bed.  Vacuuming daily (yeah, yeah I should do that anyway huh?).  Poor Penny, she has a super thick undercoat and was just gnawing away ... her skin in places is nearly bruised from chewing so much.  Put cortizone on those spots yesterday .... relief!  Got two fleas off of Dio (one yesterday), two fleas off of Shadow (old cat) yesterday.  How long before Frontline kills them all?  DE takes a few days as it dehydrates them.  I am concerned about any eggs that may be lurking.  This is all a first for us.  Cripes, like this is what we needed.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> 
> And, you have to do the carpets, dog bedding, even your bedding to.  The flea life cycle included laying eggs off the animals.. If you don't treat the surroundings, they come right back.
> 
> Been there, done that. And seen friends that didn't and never got rid of them.
> 
> I litterally pushed all the furnature to the sidea of the room, used a big sprayer with gallons of spray, did the center, moved furnature to the center, did the edges, put everything back.  Then spray outside the perimeter, strip in the garage, spray cloths, wash.
> 
> The little f'ers are nasty.  Some people are natural attracters, something in their blood. Friend ended up in hospital with an intercellular infection from a bite.
> 
> *IT'S WAR!!!!!  AND FLEAS ARE THE ENEMY*  Little f'ers..
Click to expand...



im with you.... it is a war.  I am one of the people blood suckers LOVE.....  so when my pets have fleas.... so do i!


----------



## itfitzme

*F'IN FLEAS... LITTLE F'ERS. *

*F'IN KILL THE F'ERS*




Now I feel itchy.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

I also agree that its a war but, mark my words, you can soak your home and your pets with poison and the fleas (ticks, cockroaches) will laugh at you. 

Been there, done that, learned what works and what does not.

When you find that the fleas have won, try my way. Stick to it, don't give up. It will take you a couple of months. Or, put it another way, at least 3 life cycles.



> I use borax based ant killer.
> 
> And it WORKS.



There's a commercial preparation called Roach Pruf that is nothing more than boric acid (boron) and bait. If you want to go cheap and easy, make it yourself. 

Just buy boric acid at the drugstore and mix it with bait. The ratio isn't critical, make it 60-40 or so but don't worry about it. The bait can be anything edible - sugar, flour, etc. Mix it up and store it in a jar. 

Collect jar lids. Wide, flat lids like from mayo jars or whatever it handy. Put a spoon full of your mixture into the lids and put them anyplace you would expect to find cockroaches. Under the sinks, in the food cupboards and so on. As long as it stays dry, it works. And because roaches like to cuddle, if one walks through your homemade roach killing powder, he'll snuggle with as many as 250 more that night. And, they all die because the desiccant breaks down the hard waxy coating on the exoskeleton. Kills the egg cases as well.  

The biggest problem with these remedies is that you don't get to see the &*(^&$%#$&*%^ critters, belly up in the middle of the kitchen floor. 

But, they work, they're non-toxic and they're cheap.


----------



## itfitzme

"I also agree that its a war but, mark my words, you can soak your home and your pets with poison and the fleas (ticks, cockroaches) will laugh at you. "

Always worked for me.

The borax, even baking soda, apperently, is suppose to clog their pores.  They breath through their shell.

I think everyone agrees.  You have to treat your whole environment, whatever your choice of treatment.


----------



## Zoom-boing

itfitzme said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> So in the midst of all that happened the past six weeks (in addition to all the deaths, we had one month to get all my parents stuff out of their place, July 10 is the last day, plus I got very sick 6/21-6/27) the dogs never did get their flea med ... so we now have fleas!!  Damnit!!   Frontlined both dogs Tues, both cats Thurs, DE them daily, as well as the carpeting, sofas, dog bed.  Vacuuming daily (yeah, yeah I should do that anyway huh?).  Poor Penny, she has a super thick undercoat and was just gnawing away ... her skin in places is nearly bruised from chewing so much.  Put cortizone on those spots yesterday .... relief!  Got two fleas off of Dio (one yesterday), two fleas off of Shadow (old cat) yesterday.  How long before Frontline kills them all?  DE takes a few days as it dehydrates them.  I am concerned about any eggs that may be lurking.  This is all a first for us.  Cripes, like this is what we needed.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> 
> And, you have to do the carpets, dog bedding, even your bedding to.  The flea life cycle included laying eggs off the animals.. If you don't treat the surroundings, they come right back.
> 
> Been there, done that. And seen friends that didn't and never got rid of them.
> 
> I litterally pushed all the furnature to the sidea of the room, used a big sprayer with gallons of spray, did the center, moved furnature to the center, did the edges, put everything back.  Then spray outside the perimeter, strip in the garage, spray cloths, wash.
> 
> The little f'ers are nasty.  Some people are natural attracters, something in their blood. Friend ended up in hospital with an intercellular infection from a bite.
> 
> *IT'S WAR!!!!!  AND FLEAS ARE THE ENEMY*  Little f'ers..
Click to expand...



Did all that.  Even sprinkled DE on the bedcovers after stripping, washing, hot dryer, etc everything.  Bedroom doors closed to keep pets out.  Oldest needs to clean her room because the animals have been in there.  She'd better get on that.    Carpets have been getting treated w/DE as well.  Vacuuming everyday.

Found about 4 buggers on the youngest cat's face this morning.    Called vet to ask about Capstar ... waiting for them to call me back.  May just get that on my own.

Problem is I didn't prevent the fleas so getting it under control will take some time.  It isn't a horrendous outbreak but ... we. have. fleas.

Anyone have any suggestions for something natural to give my old cat to calm him down some?  He's 15 and the whole flea thing has his nerves on edge.  He's exhausted from bathing/licking/scratching at the fleas.  I do notice that when I powder the animals w/DE, it seems to completely calm down the itch cycle and they rest.  Hmmm ...


----------



## Zoom-boing

koshergrl said:


> I use borax based ant killer.
> 
> And it WORKS.



I've used both Borax and DE to kill ants ... they both work.


----------



## JoeBlam

itfitzme said:


> *F'IN FLEAS... LITTLE F'ERS. *
> 
> *F'IN KILL THE F'ERS*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Now I feel itchy*.


----------



## Zoom-boing

Luddly Neddite said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Katzen is on the right track and its true the bomb won't work. But what works better than diatomaceous earth and is way cheaper is Twenty Mule Team Borax. Its also easier to get.
> 
> Borax is made of mined boron which is a naturally occurring desiccant. It works by breaking down the exoskeleton of insects. If you have ticks, spiders, cockroaches, ants, etc, it will also kill them. Best of all, and this is the reason why bombs and poisons do not work, it kills all phases of the insect's life. If you dip for fleas/ticks, it will kill the pests that are on the animal at that moment but more will hatch. Not only that, you have put your pet and your family at risk because of the poison.
> 
> Buy a box of Twenty Mule Team Borax in the laundry aisle. When you get home, vacuum really well. Put maybe a half cup of the borax into the vac bag and remove the bag from the house completely.
> 
> Run a narrow but solid line of borax along all of your walls. In addition, scatter it freely on CARPETED closet floors, on the animals' bedding, on carpeted areas where the animals lay. You can also scatter it in between couch cushions and similar places.
> 
> Important: DO NOT put it directly on any of the animals and DO NOT scatter it on bare floors. If you do put it on the animals, its possible it could cause the skin to break down. On bare floors, its very slippery.
> 
> In the future, you can clean as usual and replace the thin and solid line of borax along your baseboards -OR - you can be a bit lazy and not disturb the borax, cleaning more completely in the center areas of each room.
> 
> When you vacuum, remove the bag from from the house and put a fresh bag in every time you vacuum.
> 
> Continue to use Frontline but your fleas will be gone in a few weeks.
> 
> The borax is non-toxic and cheap. And, it really does work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is essentially what diatomaceous earth (DE) does and what I've been doing.  The Borax may not be safe if ingested and since we've got two cats and the dogs licking/biting where the fleas get them, we're using the DE.  I use Borax in the wash ... hard water and no phosphates means the detergent needs a booster.   Thanks for the info, Luddly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Boron is non-toxic and much safer to ingest than the silicon dioxide in diatomaceous earth. If you want to know more about any possible toxicity of boron, there's an 800 number on the side of the box. Call and ask to talk to the toxicologist. They will tell you the absolute truth, including the LD-50 and Draize results. Ask them.
> 
> (When I was doing non-animal testing of boron, I happened on my 2-3yo grand daughter with a small container of it in her hand and the white powder on her lips. The toxicologist told me she would have to eat several cups of it to have any effect and that the only thing I would likely notice would be that her stool would have a greenish cast to it.)
> 
> Some people would actually put either or both on their animal but that will cause extreme skin irritation that will be very hard to get rid of. The poor animals will be biting and chewing at themselves and you would be setting the up for long term and very expensive problems. The original irritation very quickly becomes a bacterial/fungal infection of the skin which you'll have to treat. (Does the dog have an odor to his skin? Its especially noticeable when he first comes in from outside. Skin on back is flaky? Skin on belly red and inflamed?) If you don't get rid of the fleas, that skin irritation will just get worse and the cycle becomes very difficult to treat.
> 
> If you put a strong desiccant like either boron or DE directly on the skin, it will begin to break down the skin. That's how it works on the pests.
> 
> Note that both DE and boron remain effective unless and until they become wet. Don't put either outside - its just a waste. Don't use spray poisons outside - they don't work.
> 
> Nothing I have described is particularly "complicated" but you do have to make a commitment to deal with the problem and it sounds like you have done that.
> 
> By all means, if you wish, go ahead and use the DE as I have described though. Its a lot more expensive and it will take longer to work but it works the same way - eg - its a desiccant. The biggest difference is that silicon dioxide is toxic.
> 
> http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/factsheets/4081fact.pdf
> 
> Diatomaceous Earth General Fact Sheet
> 
> A human health risk assessment of bo... [Regul Toxicol Pharmacol. 1995] - PubMed - NCBI
> 
> The Borax Conspiracy: Big Pharma's Latest Ploy to Outlaw a Natural Cure for Arthritis, Osteoporosis and Tooth Decay (July 6, 2012)
> 
> I've used boron for more than 30 years with 100% success and never one problem. But, please don't take my word for this. Do your own research.
Click to expand...


DE is also non-toxic and perfectly safe to ingest and has health benefits for animals and humans.  If I didn't already have a bunch of it I'd be using the Borax.  

Here's info on DE.  Diatomaceous Earth - Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth Health Benefits


----------



## Zoom-boing

itfitzme said:


> *F'IN FLEAS... LITTLE F'ERS. *
> 
> *F'IN KILL THE F'ERS*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Now I feel itchy.*



omg, I thought it was just me!  lol


----------



## JoeBlam

Get treated for BED BUGS....nothing can survive that...nothing.  We have plenty of the little buggers thanks to the thousands of illegals streaming through Phoenix.....the resorts are burning mattresses and bed springs before the snowbirds arrive after Thanksgiving.  The treatment involves heating the entire house to over 200 degrees so you have to remove all electronics and cover bare wood...it will melt your computers.   Sorry for your trouble.


----------



## Zoom-boing

JoeBlam said:


> Get treated for BED BUGS....nothing can survive that...nothing.  We have plenty of the little buggers thanks to the thousands of illegals streaming through Phoenix.....the resorts are burning mattresses and bed springs before the snowbirds arrive after Thanksgiving.  The treatment involves heating the entire house to over 200 degrees so you have to remove all electronics and cover bare wood...it will melt your computers.   Sorry for your trouble.



DE will treat bedbugs in your home.  

Building a mile high wall will treat bedbugs illegally entering into the USofA.


----------



## syrenn

Zoom-boing said:


> Anyone have any suggestions for something natural to give my old cat to calm him down some?  He's 15 and the whole flea thing has his nerves on edge.  He's exhausted from bathing/licking/scratching at the fleas.  I do notice that when I powder the animals w/DE, it seems to completely calm down the itch cycle and they rest.  Hmmm ...



Ive not used these...but i have heard good things from others about its performance. You could also ask you vet for a very mild tranquilizer. 

Thundershirt for Cats - Health & Wellness - Cat - PetSmart


----------



## Zoom-boing

Holy fucking CAPSTAR batman!!!

I lost count at 75 fleas, 70 of which came off of Finn and they're still falling off.  Started working within 20 minutes.  Not too many off the dogs.  Am attempting to give old Shadow cat his pill.  He's been calm all day, hate to give it to him cause he'll go nuts as they start dying.   BUT ... omG, I can't believe there were that many on Finn.  

Worth. Every. Penny. Spent.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Never had Frontline fail. Once a month, and no sign of fleas.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Zoom-boing said:


> DE is also non-toxic and perfectly safe to ingest and has health benefits for animals and humans.  If I didn't already have a bunch of it I'd be using the Borax.
> 
> Here's info on DE.  Diatomaceous Earth - Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth Health Benefits



It better be, I use a crap load of it in my pool.


----------



## syrenn

Zoom-boing said:


> Holy fucking CAPSTAR batman!!!
> 
> I lost count at 75 fleas, 70 of which came off of Finn and they're still falling off.  Started working within 20 minutes.  Not too many off the dogs.  Am attempting to give old Shadow cat his pill.  He's been calm all day, hate to give it to him cause he'll go nuts as they start dying.   BUT ... omG, I can't believe there were that many on Finn.
> 
> Worth. Every. Penny. Spent.



and that is just the adults you are seeing..... eggs and larva, you cant see.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

> Called vet to ask about Capstar ... waiting for them to call me back. May just get that on my own.



In your situation, Capstar is a waste of time and money.

Besides, it often fails, especially with fleas.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

> Anyone have any suggestions for something natural to give my old cat to calm him down some?



valerian

Get it in a liquid from a compounding pharmacy or a naturopathic md/naturopathic vet. 

Talk to your vet first.


----------



## Zoom-boing

Uncensored2008 said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> DE is also non-toxic and perfectly safe to ingest and has health benefits for animals and humans.  If I didn't already have a bunch of it I'd be using the Borax.
> 
> Here's info on DE.  Diatomaceous Earth - Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth Health Benefits
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It better be, I use a crap load of it in my pool.
Click to expand...


If used on animals/human make sure you only use food grade DE, NOT the stuff you use in a pool.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Uncensored2008 said:


> Never had Frontline fail. Once a month, and no sign of fleas.



I have. 

We picked up an almost dead puppy, loaded with fleas and ticks, Capstar at the vet, took him home the next day. The Capstar didn't kill the fleas and we had a huge infestation at both out homes. As bad as it is at one house, its so much worse at two because you keep carrying back and forth. 

I won't use diatomacious earth because of its high toxicity. We used only borax at both houses and got rid of the fleas pretty quickly. I've heard they're especially bad in our area and people foolishly use poison that is completely ineffective. 

What people don't seem to understand is that its just like what we're seeing with antibiotics. We throw these drugs and poisons at everything that comes along and then act all surprised when they become ineffective.


----------



## Zoom-boing

Luddly Neddite said:


> Called vet to ask about Capstar ... waiting for them to call me back. May just get that on my own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In your situation, Capstar is a waste of time and money.
> 
> Besides, it often fails, especially with fleas.
Click to expand...


Nope, the Capstar is working.  I've lost count the number of fleas that have fallen off the cats.  I can't believe there were that many on them.    Not sure about the dogs, they keep moving around and are on a dark carpet.  Not too much biting/licking from them so they may have less of a problem.


----------



## Zoom-boing

syrenn said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holy fucking CAPSTAR batman!!!
> 
> I lost count at 75 fleas, 70 of which came off of Finn and they're still falling off.  Started working within 20 minutes.  Not too many off the dogs.  Am attempting to give old Shadow cat his pill.  He's been calm all day, hate to give it to him cause he'll go nuts as they start dying.   BUT ... omG, I can't believe there were that many on Finn.
> 
> Worth. Every. Penny. Spent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and that is just the adults you are seeing..... eggs and larva, you cant see.
Click to expand...


Blech!  I just keep vacuuming, sprinkling DE in to the carpets, washing, etc.  Think I'll give the DE on the animals a rest.  I'm wondering if it interferes w/the FL as the FL works via the oil glands and the DE is drying.  Hmmm.  

Figure I'll just keep up the routine and keep a lookout for more fleas then treat w/the Capstar when necessary.  Our house is cleaner than it's been in about two months.  Oh, and I'm also using a lint brush on the furniture to help get off the flea dirt. Works great.  I tried to vacuum the dog yesterday ... she wasn't a fan of that.  lol


----------



## Zoom-boing

Luddly Neddite said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Never had Frontline fail. Once a month, and no sign of fleas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have.
> 
> We picked up an almost dead puppy, loaded with fleas and ticks, Capstar at the vet, took him home the next day. The Capstar didn't kill the fleas and we had a huge infestation at both out homes. As bad as it is at one house, its so much worse at two because you keep carrying back and forth.
> 
> I won't use diatomacious earth because of its high toxicity. We used only borax at both houses and got rid of the fleas pretty quickly. I've heard they're especially bad in our area and people foolishly use poison that is completely ineffective.
> 
> What people don't seem to understand is that its just like what we're seeing with antibiotics. We throw these drugs and poisons at everything that comes along and then act all surprised when they become ineffective.
Click to expand...


DE is not toxic, stop stating that it is.  You are misinformed.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

What I meant to say about Frontline is that our dog and cats were loaded with the fleas brought in on the previously Capstar-d  stray puppy and the two houses were completely infested with them. 

Note to ZoomBoing - this isn't really a huge help but if you want, you can get lighted flea traps from amazon. We keep them going for brown recluse spiders at the house in town because its an old Victorian mini-mansion and not as tight as the new house at the lake. You have a pretty heavy flea infestation and while I think you believe you're doing your best but, with what you're doing (IF I understand correctly what you've posted), you're gonna be at this for a while and every little bit helps. Besides, its satisfying to see the damn things stuck on the trap.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Zoom-boing said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Called vet to ask about Capstar ... waiting for them to call me back. May just get that on my own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In your situation, Capstar is a waste of time and money.
> 
> Besides, it often fails, especially with fleas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope, the Capstar is working.  I've lost count the number of fleas that have fallen off the cats.  I can't believe there were that many on them.    Not sure about the dogs, they keep moving around and are on a dark carpet.  Not too much biting/licking from them so they may have less of a problem.
Click to expand...


You misunderstood my meaning. I said, "in YOUR situation" ... Sorry I wasn't more clear -

Although the Capstar did not kill the fleas on my stray puppy, I believe that it usually does kill the fleas and ticks on the animal. 

THAT is the point. Most of the life cycle of both fleas and ticks is spent OFF the host animal. That's why dipping is worthless too. So what if you kill the relative few that are on the animal at any given time when it does not address those in the environment? THAT is why its a waste for you. You may have killed those few but there are plenty more that will be climbing on when the Capstar wears off. 

It took me a long time to learn the basic rule of dealing with external parasites: Treat the environment but, with the exception of products like Frontline, not the animal.


----------



## Zoom-boing

Luddly Neddite said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> In your situation, Capstar is a waste of time and money.
> 
> Besides, it often fails, especially with fleas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, the Capstar is working.  I've lost count the number of fleas that have fallen off the cats.  I can't believe there were that many on them.    Not sure about the dogs, they keep moving around and are on a dark carpet.  Not too much biting/licking from them so they may have less of a problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You misunderstood my meaning. I said, "in YOUR situation" ... Sorry I wasn't more clear -
> 
> Although the Capstar did not kill the fleas on my stray puppy, I believe that it usually does kill the fleas and ticks on the animal.
> 
> THAT is the point. Most of the life cycle of both fleas and ticks is spent OFF the host animal. That's why dipping is worthless too. So what if you kill the relative few that are on the animal at any given time when it does not address those in the environment? THAT is why its a waste for you. You may have killed those few but there are plenty more that will be climbing on when the Capstar wears off.
> 
> It took me a long time to learn the basic rule of dealing with external parasites: Treat the environment but, with the exception of products like Frontline, not the animal.
Click to expand...


I disagree.  The Capstar got off 80+ fleas off of Finn, our one year old cat; numerous fleas off the other three animals.  Now none of those fleas will reproduce.  That's a huge plus.  While it does not kill eggs/larva it does prevent those adults from laying more eggs.  Adult fleas spend 99% of their time on the animals ... killing them off the animal prevents them from reproducing and gives relief to the animal.  My old cat is stressed and over-grooming from it all ... he looks like some straggly old alley cat.  

Absolutely you have to treat the environment, both indoors and out, and also use a long-term product like FL.  But I'm very grateful that the Capstar is available and worked so well.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Zoom-boing said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Never had Frontline fail. Once a month, and no sign of fleas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have.
> 
> We picked up an almost dead puppy, loaded with fleas and ticks, Capstar at the vet, took him home the next day. The Capstar didn't kill the fleas and we had a huge infestation at both out homes. As bad as it is at one house, its so much worse at two because you keep carrying back and forth.
> 
> I won't use diatomacious earth because of its high toxicity. We used only borax at both houses and got rid of the fleas pretty quickly. I've heard they're especially bad in our area and people foolishly use poison that is completely ineffective.
> 
> What people don't seem to understand is that its just like what we're seeing with antibiotics. We throw these drugs and poisons at everything that comes along and then act all surprised when they become ineffective.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> DE is not toxic, stop stating that it is.  You are misinformed.
Click to expand...


Silicon dioxide is relatively safe to eat but toxic if inhaled and has been shown to cause DNA changes.

Silica, quartz : OSH Answers

http://www.nfc.umn.edu/assets/pdf/msds/silicon_dioxide.pdf

Silicon Dioxide | GreenMedInfo | Toxic Ingredient | Natural Medicine

631K more links here:

https://www.google.com/search?q=dia...08,d.aWc&fp=1c1876821f7dec2c&biw=1180&bih=528

I would truly appreciate reading the links you've found that tell a different story. Thanks.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

80???

First - Capstar is supposed to get 100% of what is on the animal but you are seeing exactly what happened to me. The Capstar did not kill all the fleas that were on the stray puppy I had. 

 But, even if you got 99 and 99/100%, you have gazillions happily laying eggs in your carpet so its the same as nothing at all. 

In less than one week, you will be right back where you were before you bought the Capstar. 

Really, you are WAY off track with this.

But, I wish you good luck.


----------



## syrenn

Zoom-boing said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holy fucking CAPSTAR batman!!!
> 
> I lost count at 75 fleas, 70 of which came off of Finn and they're still falling off.  Started working within 20 minutes.  Not too many off the dogs.  Am attempting to give old Shadow cat his pill.  He's been calm all day, hate to give it to him cause he'll go nuts as they start dying.   BUT ... omG, I can't believe there were that many on Finn.
> 
> Worth. Every. Penny. Spent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and that is just the adults you are seeing..... eggs and larva, you cant see.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Blech!  I just keep vacuuming, sprinkling DE in to the carpets, washing, etc.  Think I'll give the DE on the animals a rest.  I'm wondering if it interferes w/the FL as the FL works via the oil glands and the DE is drying.  Hmmm.
> 
> Figure I'll just keep up the routine and keep a lookout for more fleas then treat w/the Capstar when necessary.  Our house is cleaner than it's been in about two months.  Oh, and I'm also using a lint brush on the furniture to help get off the flea dirt. Works great.  I tried to vacuum the dog yesterday ... she wasn't a fan of that.  lol
Click to expand...


i really..REALLY suggest you bathe them all....... it will be a psychical removal of any beasties, it will remove the flea dirt which is horrifying, and you can use a rinse that will sooth the irritated skin.

i like the earthbath line. 
Oatmeal & Aloe Shampoo :: earthbath® - totally natural pet care


----------



## syrenn

Luddly Neddite said:


> What I meant to say about Frontline is that our dog and cats were loaded with the fleas brought in on the previously Capstar-d  stray puppy and the two houses were completely infested with them.
> 
> Note to ZoomBoing - this isn't really a huge help but if you want, you can get lighted flea traps from amazon. We keep them going for brown recluse spiders at the house in town because its an old Victorian mini-mansion and not as tight as the new house at the lake. You have a pretty heavy flea infestation and while I think you believe you're doing your best but, with what you're doing (IF I understand correctly what you've posted), you're gonna be at this for a while and every little bit helps. Besides, its satisfying to see the damn things stuck on the trap.



ya know.... these things really work!!!  Good idea bringing it up. 

LOL.... yes it is satisfying seeing them stuck to the trap... the only thing better would be a hearing a zap like a mosquito trap!


----------



## Zoom-boing

syrenn said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> and that is just the adults you are seeing..... eggs and larva, you cant see.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blech!  I just keep vacuuming, sprinkling DE in to the carpets, washing, etc.  Think I'll give the DE on the animals a rest.  I'm wondering if it interferes w/the FL as the FL works via the oil glands and the DE is drying.  Hmmm.
> 
> Figure I'll just keep up the routine and keep a lookout for more fleas then treat w/the Capstar when necessary.  Our house is cleaner than it's been in about two months.  Oh, and I'm also using a lint brush on the furniture to help get off the flea dirt. Works great.  I tried to vacuum the dog yesterday ... she wasn't a fan of that.  lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i really..REALLY suggest you bathe them all....... it will be a psychical removal of any beasties, it will remove the flea dirt which is horrifying, and you can use a rinse that will sooth the irritated skin.
> 
> i like the earthbath line.
> Oatmeal & Aloe Shampoo :: earthbath® - totally natural pet care
Click to expand...


I'm thinking the same thing.  Organic apple cider vinegar is a great rinse, fleas don't like it, good for the dog's coats.  Gets rid of and keeps the dog from getting that "wet dog" smell.  The dogs will greatly benefit from a bath.  The cats will never in a million years allow me to bathe them.  Well, Finn might ... I could give it a try ... but Shadow?    Not a chance.  Lots of fleas falling off of him but as far as I can tell, Finn takes the prize for the most.  Am reading up on VetKem and may get some.  I do like that it breaks the egg/larvae/flea cycle.  Going to see how it goes over the weekend or so and if the buggers start hatching out again I'm getting some.  Just vacuumed the basement (where Finn sleeps) again, his blanket, cat bed, futon cover, pillows all in the dryer, more DE sprinkled down there too.  Gaaaaaaa!  Shadow ate and ate and ate ... he's the most relaxed I've seen him in quite a few weeks.  I keep thinking bugs are crawling all over me and can't stop itching ... mind over matter.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

If you don't have kids, you'd be better off staying with the silicon dioxide. 

Just stop putting it on the animals or their skin will never heal.

Spray the yard if you want. It won't make a difference but people like to believe it will.


----------



## Zoom-boing

Luddly Neddite said:


> 80???
> 
> First - Capstar is supposed to get 100% of what is on the animal but you are seeing exactly what happened to me. The Capstar did not kill all the fleas that were on the stray puppy I had.
> 
> But, even if you got 99 and 99/100%, you have gazillions happily laying eggs in your carpet so its the same as nothing at all.
> 
> In less than one week, you will be right back where you were before you bought the Capstar.
> 
> Really, you are WAY off track with this.
> 
> But, I wish you good luck.



Fleas are mainly on the pets, that's where they spend most of their life.  They lay their eggs on the animal, eggs fall off into carpet, furniture, etc., do their thing, hatch ... more fleas, cycle starts all over again.  

Any fleas/eggs/larvae in the carpet are being addressed with the DE (just as you used Borax) and I may get some VetKem spray as well, as it disrupts the life cycle; vacuuming daily; animals are all on Frontline (will reapply in 2 weeks as vet said I can give every 3 weeks); Capstar killed nearly all fleas on them (those fleas will not reproduce -yay!), Frontline and DE will get the rest but I need to give that time; will switch from FL if it does not seem to be doing the job. 

What do you mean I'm way off track?  What else do you suggest?


----------



## koshergrl

That's strange, my understanding was that they are only on pets long enough to get enough blood  to facilitate egg laying.


----------



## syrenn

Zoom-boing said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blech!  I just keep vacuuming, sprinkling DE in to the carpets, washing, etc.  Think I'll give the DE on the animals a rest.  I'm wondering if it interferes w/the FL as the FL works via the oil glands and the DE is drying.  Hmmm.
> 
> Figure I'll just keep up the routine and keep a lookout for more fleas then treat w/the Capstar when necessary.  Our house is cleaner than it's been in about two months.  Oh, and I'm also using a lint brush on the furniture to help get off the flea dirt. Works great.  I tried to vacuum the dog yesterday ... she wasn't a fan of that.  lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i really..REALLY suggest you bathe them all....... it will be a psychical removal of any beasties, it will remove the flea dirt which is horrifying, and you can use a rinse that will sooth the irritated skin.
> 
> i like the earthbath line.
> Oatmeal & Aloe Shampoo :: earthbath® - totally natural pet care
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm thinking the same thing.  Organic vinegar is a great rinse, fleas don't like it, good for the dog's coats.  Gets rid of and keeps the dog from getting that "wet dog" smell.  The dogs will greatly benefit from a bath.  The cats will never in a million years allow me to bathe them.  Well, Finn might ... I could give it a try ... but Shadow?    Not a chance.  Lots of fleas falling off of him but as far as I can tell, Finn takes the prize for the most.  Am reading up on VetKem and may get some.  I do like that it breaks the egg/larvae/flea cycle.  Going to see how it goes over the weekend or so and if the buggers start hatching out again I'm getting some.  Just vacuumed the basement (where Finn sleeps) again, his blanket, cat bed, futon cover, pillows all in the dryer, more DE sprinkled down there too.  Gaaaaaaa!  Shadow ate and ate and ate ... he's the most relaxed I've seen him in quite a few weeks.  I keep thinking bugs are crawling all over me and can't stop itching ... mind over matter.
Click to expand...


talk to your vet....and see if he will give you a tranquilizer so that you can relax the the cats down enough for a bath.....   I am not sure about the vinagar.... but the aloe oatmeal will soothe the skin. And their skin needs some soothing. 

The vetkem in my book.... was sent from god! Truthfully i would not wait to see if they all hatch.... the fight with fleas is all about breaking the life cycle and getting them before they get you....  allowing them to hatch just starts the whole damn thing over again!!!


----------



## Zoom-boing

Luddly Neddite said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have.
> 
> We picked up an almost dead puppy, loaded with fleas and ticks, Capstar at the vet, took him home the next day. The Capstar didn't kill the fleas and we had a huge infestation at both out homes. As bad as it is at one house, its so much worse at two because you keep carrying back and forth.
> 
> I won't use diatomacious earth because of its high toxicity. We used only borax at both houses and got rid of the fleas pretty quickly. I've heard they're especially bad in our area and people foolishly use poison that is completely ineffective.
> 
> What people don't seem to understand is that its just like what we're seeing with antibiotics. We throw these drugs and poisons at everything that comes along and then act all surprised when they become ineffective.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DE is not toxic, stop stating that it is.  You are misinformed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Silicon dioxide is relatively safe to eat but toxic if inhaled and has been shown to cause DNA changes.
> 
> Silica, quartz : OSH Answers
> 
> http://www.nfc.umn.edu/assets/pdf/msds/silicon_dioxide.pdf
> 
> Silicon Dioxide | GreenMedInfo | Toxic Ingredient | Natural Medicine
> 
> 631K more links here:
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=dia...08,d.aWc&fp=1c1876821f7dec2c&biw=1180&bih=528
> 
> I would truly appreciate reading the links you've found that tell a different story. Thanks.
Click to expand...


Do you even know what diatomaceous earth is?  The DE I use is food grade NOT what is used in swimming pools.



> Diatomaceous earth consists of fossilized remains of diatoms, a type of hard-shelled algae.
> 
> Diatomite is used as an insecticide, due to its abrasive and physico-sorptive properties.[8] The fine powder absorbs lipids from the waxy outer layer of insects' exoskeletons, causing them to dehydrate.[9] Arthropods die as a result of the water pressure deficiency



Diatomaceous earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is from a link you provided:



> What happens to diatomaceous earth when it enters the body?
> 
> When diatomaceous earth is eaten, very little is absorbed into the body. The remaining portion is rapidly excreted. Small amounts of silica are normally present in all body tissues, and it is normal to find silicon dioxide in urine. In one study, people ate a few grams of diatomaceous earth. The amount of silicon dioxide in their urine was unchanged.
> 
> After inhalation of amorphous diatomaceous earth, it is rapidly eliminated from lung tissue. However, crystalline diatomaceous earth is much smaller, and it may accumulate in lung tissue and lymph nodes. Very low levels of crystalline diatomaceous earth may be found in pesticide products.
> Is diatomaceous earth likely to contribute to the development of cancer?
> 
> When mice were forced to breathe diatomaceous earth for one hour each day for a year, there was an increase in lung cancers. When rats were fed silica at a high dose for two years, there was no increase in cancer development.
> 
> Most diatomaceous earth is made of amorphous silicon dioxide. However, it can contain very low levels of crystalline silicon dioxide. Amorphous diatomaceous earth has not been associated with any cancers in people.
> Has anyone studied non-cancer effects from long-term exposure to diatomaceous earth?
> 
> In a rabbit study, researchers found no health effects after applying diatomaceous earth to the rabbits' skin five times per week for three weeks. In a rat study, researchers fed rats high doses of diatomaceous earth for six months. They found no reproductive or developmental effects. In another rat study, the only effect was more rapid weight gain. That study involved 90 days of feeding rats with a diet made of 5% diatomaceous earth.
> 
> When guinea pigs were forced to breathe air containing diatomaceous earth for 2 years, there was slightly more connective tissue in their lungs. When researchers checked before the 2-year mark, no effects were found.
> 
> A very small amount of crystalline diatomaceous earth may be found in pesticide products. Long-term inhalation of the crystalline form is associated with silicosis, chronic bronchitis, and other respiratory problems. The bulk of diatomaceous earth is amorphous, not crystalline. The amorphous form is only associated with mild, reversible lung inflammation.



It isn't toxic to humans; it is deadly to insects with an exoskeleton.  

From another link you provided:



> Available studies demonstrate that silicon dioxide and silica gel have
> moderate to low acute toxicity. These pesticides have been placed in
> Toxicity Category III for acute oral and dermal effects (Toxicity Category I
> indicating the highest degree of toxicity, and IV the lowest). Similarly, an
> inhalation study and eye and dermal irritation studies suggest moderate to
> low toxicity.
> 
> With regard to subchronic and chronic effects, crystalline silicon
> dioxide has long been associated with silicosis, a progressive lung disease
> which may result in lung cancer in humans. However, amorphous silicon
> dioxide (used in pesticide formulations) has not been associated with
> silicosis. The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC)
> conducted an in-depth evaluation of the potential carcinogenicity of silicon
> dioxide. They found that there is inadequate evidence to link amorphous
> silica with cancer effects in humans or test animals.




Here is a link with tons of info on DE.  Diatomaceous Earth - Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth Health Benefits


FOOD GRADE DE is not the same as COMMERCIAL GRADE DE.  



> 1. How can something that kills bugs be safe for me and my pets?
> 
> Remember--Diatomaceous Earth kills insects by PHYSICAL action---not chemical.  Hundreds of the microscopic DE get all over the insects body.  As the insects move, the DE scratches the waxy coating off of them and they dehydrate and die.  Because the DE particle is so small--it has no harm to people and pets.  It is a simple mineral---silica.
> 
> 2. Is the same product used for killing bugs and helping people?
> 
> All the Diatomaceous Earth we sell is the exact same product dug out of the same mine. Because Diatomaceous Earth kills insects, it falls under the control of the EPA. Becasue of that, we sell both regular labeled Diatomaceous Earth and Diatomaceous Earth with the approved EPA label. You can buy either product, but if you are going to be using Diatomaceous Earth for killing insects, you are supposed to buy the EPA labeled product.
> 
> 3.  How much DE should a person take each day?
> 
> Myself, my wife, and everyone I know takes 1 heaping tablespoon per day in liquid of their choice.  I use juice, but many just put in a glass of water.  I know some who take 2 or 3 tablespoons a day, but that is usually for a severe problem they are trying to correct.  I also know some who just take a teaspoon per day to start out with and work up to a tablespoon.
> 
> 4.  I have heard DE is dangerous--especially breathing it in.
> 
> Food Grade DE often gets confused with filter grade DE.  Filter grade DE starts out as food grade, but it is heated to about 1000 degrees and chemicals are added to crystallize it.  This works great for filtering but is dangerous to people and animals. Breathing the crystallized product in over long periods of time causes a disease called silicoses.  The world health org. has said that DE needs to be less than 2% crystalline silica in order to be considered safe.  The filter grade DE is 60% crystalline!! -- Stay away from it --- it is dangerous!!  Perma-Guards food grade DE on the other hand is less than .50% crystalline silica.  As you can see, that is more than 4 times less than it needs to be to be considered safe! Daily use of Food Grade DE for people, pets and around the garden is perfectly safe.  Food Grade DE should be treated like any other dusty product, if you are going to breath it in over long periods of time, wear a dust mask ---- but it should in no way be compared to the dangerous crystallized filter grade.



http://www.earthworkshealth.com/Diatomaceous-Earth-FAQ.php



> Inhalation Risks
> 
> All types of diatomaceous earth are, to varying degrees, unsafe for human inhalation. Natural and food-grade DE can cause irritation of the mucous membranes of the nose and mouth; therefore, a respiratory mask should be worn when administering DE. Pool-grade DE is a respiratory hazard due to its crystalline silica content. This high concentration of crystalline silica is due to the partial melting of the DE; this melting and processing result in a substance that is carcinogenic and should not be inhaled or ingested.



http://www.ehow.com/about_6682801_diatomaceous-earth-safe-inhale_.html


Another link on the benefits of food grade DE:

http://www.richsoil.com/diatomaceous-earth.jsp


----------



## itfitzme

Zoom-boing said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, the Capstar is working.  I've lost count the number of fleas that have fallen off the cats.  I can't believe there were that many on them.    Not sure about the dogs, they keep moving around and are on a dark carpet.  Not too much biting/licking from them so they may have less of a problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You misunderstood my meaning. I said, "in YOUR situation" ... Sorry I wasn't more clear -
> 
> Although the Capstar did not kill the fleas on my stray puppy, I believe that it usually does kill the fleas and ticks on the animal.
> 
> THAT is the point. Most of the life cycle of both fleas and ticks is spent OFF the host animal. That's why dipping is worthless too. So what if you kill the relative few that are on the animal at any given time when it does not address those in the environment? THAT is why its a waste for you. You may have killed those few but there are plenty more that will be climbing on when the Capstar wears off.
> 
> It took me a long time to learn the basic rule of dealing with external parasites: Treat the environment but, with the exception of products like Frontline, not the animal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree.  The Capstar got off 80+ fleas off of Finn, our one year old cat; numerous fleas off the other three animals.  Now none of those fleas will reproduce.  That's a huge plus.  While it does not kill eggs/larva it does prevent those adults from laying more eggs.  Adult fleas spend 99% of their time on the animals ... killing them off the animal prevents them from reproducing and gives relief to the animal.  My old cat is stressed and over-grooming from it all ... he looks like some straggly old alley cat.
> 
> Absolutely you have to treat the environment, both indoors and out, and also use a long-term product like FL.  But I'm very grateful that the Capstar is available and worked so well.
Click to expand...


Speaking of overgrooming, the poor animal I am thinking of had the same problem.  Three quarters of the cat's tail, and much of its hind quarters, were bare from scratching and biting.  The owner had a "fundamental attribution error" thing going on, blaming it on the cat being OCD.  The problem was that the fleas would go as far away from the treatment as possible, hiding at h
the tip of the cat's tail, then moving back in as the treatment faded.  Poor cat's back end was bald and raw.  I swear the fleas had taken refuge in its butt.


----------



## Zoom-boing

koshergrl said:


> That's strange, my understanding was that they are only on pets long enough to get enough blood  to facilitate egg laying.



My understanding is that they are mainly on pets but can live in carpeting, furniture for long periods of time.  They lay eggs on pets or other surfaces but stay on pets to feed and feed and breed and breed.

Cute cartoon about 3 min long, gives life cycle of fleas.  Vet-Kem® Flea & Tick Products


----------



## koshergrl

My dog goes nuts on his tail...he is super allergic to fleas. He's treated, and I've never found a single one on him...but they're around or he wouldn't chew like that.

But I can't eradicate fleas from the entire world. So when it gets bad I give him prednisone or benadryl, and when it's really bad, antibiotics. There's only so much you can do.


----------



## Zoom-boing

itfitzme said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> You misunderstood my meaning. I said, "in YOUR situation" ... Sorry I wasn't more clear -
> 
> Although the Capstar did not kill the fleas on my stray puppy, I believe that it usually does kill the fleas and ticks on the animal.
> 
> THAT is the point. Most of the life cycle of both fleas and ticks is spent OFF the host animal. That's why dipping is worthless too. So what if you kill the relative few that are on the animal at any given time when it does not address those in the environment? THAT is why its a waste for you. You may have killed those few but there are plenty more that will be climbing on when the Capstar wears off.
> 
> It took me a long time to learn the basic rule of dealing with external parasites: Treat the environment but, with the exception of products like Frontline, not the animal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree.  The Capstar got off 80+ fleas off of Finn, our one year old cat; numerous fleas off the other three animals.  Now none of those fleas will reproduce.  That's a huge plus.  While it does not kill eggs/larva it does prevent those adults from laying more eggs.  Adult fleas spend 99% of their time on the animals ... killing them off the animal prevents them from reproducing and gives relief to the animal.  My old cat is stressed and over-grooming from it all ... he looks like some straggly old alley cat.
> 
> Absolutely you have to treat the environment, both indoors and out, and also use a long-term product like FL.  But I'm very grateful that the Capstar is available and worked so well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Speaking of overgrooming, the poor animal I am thinking of had the same problem.  Three quarters of the cat's tail, and much of its hind quarters, were bare from scratching and biting.  The owner had a "fundamental attribution error" thing going on, blaming it on the cat being OCD.  The problem was that the fleas would go as far away from the treatment as possible, hiding at h
> the tip of the cat's tail, then moving back in as the treatment faded.  Poor cat's back end was bald and raw.  I swear the fleas had taken refuge in its butt.
Click to expand...


My old cat is sparsely furred on his belly and hind legs. Above his eyes are thin, thin, thin too.  We've been blaming it on the addition of a new cat ... hoping when the fleas are gone his over-grooming calms down.


----------



## syrenn

itfitzme said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> You misunderstood my meaning. I said, "in YOUR situation" ... Sorry I wasn't more clear -
> 
> Although the Capstar did not kill the fleas on my stray puppy, I believe that it usually does kill the fleas and ticks on the animal.
> 
> THAT is the point. Most of the life cycle of both fleas and ticks is spent OFF the host animal. That's why dipping is worthless too. So what if you kill the relative few that are on the animal at any given time when it does not address those in the environment? THAT is why its a waste for you. You may have killed those few but there are plenty more that will be climbing on when the Capstar wears off.
> 
> It took me a long time to learn the basic rule of dealing with external parasites: Treat the environment but, with the exception of products like Frontline, not the animal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree.  The Capstar got off 80+ fleas off of Finn, our one year old cat; numerous fleas off the other three animals.  Now none of those fleas will reproduce.  That's a huge plus.  While it does not kill eggs/larva it does prevent those adults from laying more eggs.  Adult fleas spend 99% of their time on the animals ... killing them off the animal prevents them from reproducing and gives relief to the animal.  My old cat is stressed and over-grooming from it all ... he looks like some straggly old alley cat.
> 
> Absolutely you have to treat the environment, both indoors and out, and also use a long-term product like FL.  But I'm very grateful that the Capstar is available and worked so well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Speaking of overgrooming, the poor animal I am thinking of had the same problem.  Three quarters of the cat's tail, and much of its hind quarters, were bare from scratching and biting.  The owner had a "fundamental attribution error" thing going on, blaming it on the cat being OCD.  The problem was that the fleas would go as far away from the treatment as possible, hiding at h
> the tip of the cat's tail, then moving back in as the treatment faded.  Poor cat's back end was bald and raw.  I swear the fleas had taken refuge in its butt.
Click to expand...


which is why you have to bathe them and treat all of the bedding they sleep on. With bad infestations such as yours...i would suggest "dipping" them as well.


----------



## Zoom-boing

Just bathed both dogs, only saw one dead flea off of Penny, none off of Dio.  No live ones at all.  

Saw another live flea on Finn (which means there's more).  I may Capstar him again over the weekend. Shadow is less itchy/frantically bathing but is finding odd, odd places to be.  Today it's the litterbox.   It's quiet and out of the way ... but the litterbox?  Weird.  Keeping an eye on him.

Thank you, syrenn for the VetKem info.  Just ordered a bottle for pet application and a bottle for carpet/furniture application.  Couldn't find it for sale by any local vets, it should be here next Wed or Thurs.


----------



## syrenn

Zoom-boing said:


> Just bathed both dogs, only saw one dead flea off of Penny, none off of Dio.  No live ones at all.
> 
> Saw another live flea on Finn (which means there's more).  I may Capstar him again over the weekend. Shadow is less itchy/frantically bathing but is finding odd, odd places to be.  Today it's the litterbox.   It's quiet and out of the way ... but the litterbox?  Weird.  Keeping an eye on him.
> 
> Thank you, syrenn for the VetKem info.  Just ordered a bottle for pet application and a bottle for carpet/furniture application.  Couldn't find it for sale by any local vets, it should be here next Wed or Thurs.



 

i hope it helps!!! 

odd places to be... may also be not wanting to be in or on infested areas..... cats are smart like that. He is also most likely stressed by all the vacuuming


----------



## koshergrl

Zoom-boing said:


> Just bathed both dogs, only saw one dead flea off of Penny, none off of Dio. No live ones at all.
> 
> Saw another live flea on Finn (which means there's more). I may Capstar him again over the weekend. Shadow is less itchy/frantically bathing but is finding odd, odd places to be. Today it's the litterbox.  It's quiet and out of the way ... but the litterbox? Weird. Keeping an eye on him.
> 
> Thank you, syrenn for the VetKem info. Just ordered a bottle for pet application and a bottle for carpet/furniture application. Couldn't find it for sale by any local vets, it should be here next Wed or Thurs.


 
Please give the kitty some benadryl. I feel sorry for her, and it will give her a break.


----------



## koshergrl

Mylo had a seizure last night..I told my mom and she said to look for ticks. The funny thing is...she has a weird spot between her front legs that has been bothering her and the hair has fallen off...I seriously think she might have had a tick there.


----------



## syrenn

koshergrl said:


> Mylo had a seizure last night..I told my mom and she said to look for ticks. The funny thing is...she has a weird spot between her front legs that has been bothering her and the hair has fallen off...I seriously think she might have had a tick there.


----------



## syrenn

koshergrl said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just bathed both dogs, only saw one dead flea off of Penny, none off of Dio. No live ones at all.
> 
> Saw another live flea on Finn (which means there's more). I may Capstar him again over the weekend. Shadow is less itchy/frantically bathing but is finding odd, odd places to be. Today it's the litterbox.  It's quiet and out of the way ... but the litterbox? Weird. Keeping an eye on him.
> 
> Thank you, syrenn for the VetKem info. Just ordered a bottle for pet application and a bottle for carpet/furniture application. Couldn't find it for sale by any local vets, it should be here next Wed or Thurs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please give the kitty some benadryl. I feel sorry for her, and it will give her a break.
Click to expand...


not a bad idea! It would also help with the itching.....

but ask the vet first!!!!


----------



## koshergrl

I'm going to dose my dog with steroids tonight. If whatever caused her seizure is caused by inflammation or swelling, it will help. Plus it helps with skin stuff anyway.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Be sure to weigh the cat and give the correct dosage. 

Ask your vet but if I remember right, its about 2mgs per pound. 

Ask your vet.


----------



## koshergrl

Give him 25 mgs, that's one tablet of most over the counter diphenhydramine. I dont' think they can overdose on benadryl. It will dry out sinuses a little..and he might be drowsy. Half the time, the drowsiness is because it's the first time they've had relief and they're exhausted...


----------



## koshergrl

That is, if they're anything like dogs.

But I think for the purposes of this conversation, most allergy treatments for cats, humans & dogs are very similar.


----------



## syrenn

koshergrl said:


> Give him 25 mgs, that's one tablet of most over the counter diphenhydramine. I dont' think they can overdose on benadryl. It will dry out sinuses a little..and he might be drowsy. Half the time, the drowsiness is because it's the first time they've had relief and they're exhausted...



no.... 
_
you need to dose by weight._ And as with any drug....ask your vet first.


----------



## Zoom-boing

koshergrl said:


> Give him 25 mgs, that's one tablet of most over the counter diphenhydramine. I dont' think they can overdose on benadryl. It will dry out sinuses a little..and he might be drowsy. Half the time, the drowsiness is because it's *the first time they've had relief and they're exhausted..*.



I think the Capstar got a lot of fleas off of him and _that_ brought a boatload of relief, along with the DE and FL working, and he is finally able to really rest.  I do think he's exhausted. His appetite (which was good anyway) increased.  Am treating for tapeworms but although exhausted he may just feel better and is hungrier. 

The dogs haven't scratched once since their bath.  Penny thinks she's gotten out of getting brushed ... she is wrong.  lol

Will keep treating until these nasty buggers are gone, gone, gone.  I hate them.  Couple of them bit me.


----------



## Zoom-boing

syrenn said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just bathed both dogs, only saw one dead flea off of Penny, none off of Dio.  No live ones at all.
> 
> Saw another live flea on Finn (which means there's more).  I may Capstar him again over the weekend. Shadow is less itchy/frantically bathing but is finding odd, odd places to be.  Today it's the litterbox.   It's quiet and out of the way ... but the litterbox?  Weird.  Keeping an eye on him.
> 
> Thank you, syrenn for the VetKem info.  Just ordered a bottle for pet application and a bottle for carpet/furniture application.  Couldn't find it for sale by any local vets, it should be here next Wed or Thurs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i hope it helps!!!
> 
> odd places to be... may also be not wanting to be in or on infested areas..... cats are smart like that. He is also most likely stressed by all the vacuuming
Click to expand...


Yeah, Shadow hates the vacuum.  Finn sits and watches me, he doesn't care much about it.  He's a funny little cat.


----------



## koshergrl

"Oral diphenhydramine is not FDA-approved for use in veterinary medicine; however, it is a commonly accepted practice to use this medication in dogs and cats. The usual dose in dogs and cats is 0.5-2mg/pound every 8-12 hours."

Diphenhydramine: Allergy Treatment for Cats & Dogs - 1800PetMeds

I give my pup 3-4 of them when he needs them.


----------



## syrenn

Zoom-boing said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just bathed both dogs, only saw one dead flea off of Penny, none off of Dio.  No live ones at all.
> 
> Saw another live flea on Finn (which means there's more).  I may Capstar him again over the weekend. Shadow is less itchy/frantically bathing but is finding odd, odd places to be.  Today it's the litterbox.   It's quiet and out of the way ... but the litterbox?  Weird.  Keeping an eye on him.
> 
> Thank you, syrenn for the VetKem info.  Just ordered a bottle for pet application and a bottle for carpet/furniture application.  Couldn't find it for sale by any local vets, it should be here next Wed or Thurs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i hope it helps!!!
> 
> odd places to be... may also be not wanting to be in or on infested areas..... cats are smart like that. He is also most likely stressed by all the vacuuming
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, Shadow hates the vacuum.  Finn sits and watches me, he doesn't care much about it.  He's a funny little cat.
Click to expand...


i have named the vacuum JAWS!  


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTwqmj1551E]"Jaws"(vacuum) - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Zoom-boing

VetKem for the pets will be here tomorrow; VetKem for the carpets/furniture will be here between Thurs and next Tues (no quicker shipping options were available for that). Hope it's here sooner rather than later ... dogs and cats are itchy.  Am wondering if the Frontline is doing anything at all other than making poor old Shadow cat scratch himself bald in spots.  Or maybe that's the fleas.  <sigh>


----------



## syrenn

Zoom-boing said:


> VetKem for the pets will be here tomorrow; VetKem for the carpets/furniture will be here between Thurs and next Tues (no quicker shipping options were available for that). Hope it's here sooner rather than later ... dogs and cats are itchy.  Am wondering if the Frontline is doing anything at all other than making poor old Shadow cat scratch himself bald in spots.  Or maybe that's the fleas.  <sigh>





i hope the vetkem gets there soon! 


poor shadow cat....is she still hiding in her litter box?


----------



## Zoom-boing

syrenn said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> VetKem for the pets will be here tomorrow; VetKem for the carpets/furniture will be here between Thurs and next Tues (no quicker shipping options were available for that). Hope it's here sooner rather than later ... dogs and cats are itchy.  Am wondering if the Frontline is doing anything at all other than making poor old Shadow cat scratch himself bald in spots.  Or maybe that's the fleas.  <sigh>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i hope the vetkem gets there soon!
> 
> 
> poor shadow cat....is she still hiding in her litter box?
Click to expand...


No, that seems to have stopped.  He's scratched behinds his ears, parts of his face, some spots on his back/sides bald. I see him actually pulling on his fur.  His fur is thin anyway because he's old ... and I look and look and never actually see a flea on him.  But he's all black so I'm assuming I'm just missing them.  

I originally only ordered one manual spray bottle of VK for the house then realized that wasn't nearly enough so ordered 3 more aerosol cans.  After much research I want to have enough in case I need to retreat in two weeks after the fleas in the pupa/cocoon stage hatch.  Garrrrr, I hate these things!


----------



## syrenn

Zoom-boing said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> VetKem for the pets will be here tomorrow; VetKem for the carpets/furniture will be here between Thurs and next Tues (no quicker shipping options were available for that). Hope it's here sooner rather than later ... dogs and cats are itchy.  Am wondering if the Frontline is doing anything at all other than making poor old Shadow cat scratch himself bald in spots.  Or maybe that's the fleas.  <sigh>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i hope the vetkem gets there soon!
> 
> 
> poor shadow cat....is she still hiding in her litter box?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, that seems to have stopped.  He's scratched behinds his ears, parts of his face, some spots on his back/sides bald. I see him actually pulling on his fur.  His fur is thin anyway because he's old ... and I look and look and never actually see a flea on him.  But he's all black so I'm assuming I'm just missing them.
> 
> I originally only ordered one manual spray bottle of VK for the house then realized that wasn't nearly enough so ordered 3 more aerosol cans.  After much research I want to have enough in case I need to retreat in two weeks after the fleas in the pupa/cocoon stage hatch.  Garrrrr, I hate these things!
Click to expand...


 Im glad you ordered more!!! Better to over treat then under treat with this stuff in my opinion.

they may be scratching just in response to the flea bites. I know when i get bitten ill scratch until i strike blood. ....and one of the reasons i am so militant about them.


----------



## Zoom-boing

Got the VetKem to put on the animals yesterday.  Was really, really hesitant about using it but ... did both dogs outside and Finncat in the laundry room.  He is such a sport.  The stuff smells when wet but when dry, no odor or anything.  I had a really hard time getting their faces and legs so today I donned a pair of rubber gloves then put a pair of white kid gloves (belonged to a relative who, long, long ago, used to be a traffic cop.  Cool, huh?) then sprayed the VK on the gloves and rubbed on the hard to get spots.  Also Capstarred Finn yesterday - those damn fleas just moved to his butt, head and leg area after I sprayed him - and Capstarred the dogs today.  Bought flea comb ... Dio is mostly black and I could see the eggs and larvae after I sprayed him and started combing.  Hopefully they are now rendered incapable of becoming fleas.  The stuff for the house is out for delivery and should be here whenever the mailman gets here.  

Finn again had the most fleas come off of  him.  I think it's because they are really reproducing in the basement ... perfect atmosphere for them.  Even if I don't get the whole house done today I am spraying the basement.  Talked to the girls at PetValu and also a customer who all said the same thing about Frontline ... that it doesn't seem to be working for many people.  So I bought Advantix for them and will apply next week.

Didn't do anything to Shadow because I'm afraid he might react to the VK if I spray him or lick it off while it's wet.  Did get him vitamins and Omega 3&6 to mix in with his new (better, not crap) cat food.  I think a good portion of his scratching/licking is nutritionally related.  I still don't know if he has fleas ... I haven't seen any on him after I gave him Capstar last week.  Will give him Advantix next week and hope between that and eliminating them throughout the house that things will settle down. 

I FREAKIN' HATE THIS!!!!!


----------



## syrenn

you are on the way hun..... breaking that life cycle is the only way to stop them!!

can you do the glove method on your cat?


----------



## Zoom-boing

syrenn said:


> you are on the way hun..... breaking that life cycle is the only way to stop them!!
> 
> can you do the glove method on your cat?



I did on Finn but haven't tried Shadow yet.  Even if I could just do his hind quarters it would help.  I did use some evoo on his ears and neck to try and sooth his baldy spots.  The poor cat ... he looks rather forlorn.  I should post a pic.  

Got the VetKem for the house this afternoon.  Yay! Sprayed the basement where Finn sleeps ... think he'll sleep with a kid tonight.  Did our bedroom.  Tomorrow a.m. will do the rest of the first floor, stairs and upstairs hall.  Once that's done and the animals can go in those rooms I'll hit the remaining bedrooms.  Hope I have enough.  One can did the basement.  Still waiting for the 24oz manual bottle to get here.   

Dogs are still scratching, especially Dio.  Hoping the nasty creatures just left bites as they were dying off.  Yeesh, what a pain in the ass this is.


----------



## syrenn

its better to do a heavy dose of spray....and then wait to do the other room when the remainder gets there.... over trying to do a light spraying and making it go further.   

my fingers are crossed that this does it for you....


----------



## Zoom-boing

Oh, I heavy dosed the basement and our bedroom.  The family room will likely take a whole can ... two sofas and the carpet.  The remaining can (minus what I used in our bedroom) should take care of the rest.  Our house isn't very big.

Shadow is just compulsively licking and pulling at his fur.  I gave him a Capstar and watched him a couple of hours and did not see one flea fall off of him.  He spends most of his time in my daughters bedroom ... maybe the Frontline worked on him. I'm wondering if the Frontline is part of his problem ... maybe he is having a systemic reaction to it.   He was licky before all this - which I suspect is partially related to having another cat and also food related - but since I put the FL on him it has gotten much, much worse.  

Research and a vet visit.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Makes me very glad we used the  boron as I described earlier in this thread. 
Works extremely well, non-toxic and cheap. 

What you're going through is exactly what I wrote would happen. 
At the rate you're going, you'll never be rid of them.


----------



## Zoom-boing

Luddly Neddite said:


> Makes me very glad we used the  boron as I described earlier in this thread.
> Works extremely well, non-toxic and cheap.
> 
> What you're going through is exactly what I wrote would happen.
> At the rate you're going, you'll never be rid of them.



I used DE for two weeks exactly as you used Boron -- they both act the same way in the killing of insects --, treated house and animals with it, vacuumed daily, etc, Frontlined all animals ... still had heavy doses of fleas, especially on youngest cat.  After treating animals and house w/VetKem, fleas are down considerably, older cat is flea free, younger cat appears to be flea free; checking the dogs (harder to see on them) but so far do not see fleas (they are still scratching some but that may be due to bites they had rather than active fleas), eggs/larvae are now rendered incapable of becoming fleas.  Will retreat in 14 days to get any pupa that surface and become fleas.  They are going and will be gone for good.  While I much prefer not using these sprays, the natural way wasn't cutting it.  Will continue using DE as preventative treatment along with others that I am looking into.  Have extra VetKem in case they fail.


----------



## Katzndogz

I can't say that   Frontline or Advantage works.   It doesn't work on my dog or any dog I know.  Flea baths don't work.   Fleas hide.  They go in the eyes, in the anus and urethra.  The'll hide in a female's vagina and come out when it's safe.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Zoom-boing said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Makes me very glad we used the  boron as I described earlier in this thread.
> Works extremely well, non-toxic and cheap.
> 
> What you're going through is exactly what I wrote would happen.
> At the rate you're going, you'll never be rid of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used DE for two weeks exactly as you used Boron -- they both act the same way in the killing of insects --, treated house and animals with it, vacuumed daily, etc, Frontlined all animals ... still had heavy doses of fleas, especially on youngest cat.  After treating animals and house w/VetKem, fleas are down considerably, older cat is flea free, younger cat appears to be flea free; checking the dogs (harder to see on them) but so far do not see fleas (they are still scratching some but that may be due to bites they had rather than active fleas), eggs/larvae are now rendered incapable of becoming fleas.  Will retreat in 14 days to get any pupa that surface and become fleas.  They are going and will be gone for good.  While I much prefer not using these sprays, the natural way wasn't cutting it.  Will continue using DE as preventative treatment along with others that I am looking into.  Have extra VetKem in case they fail.
Click to expand...


"two weeks"  As I wrote earlier, the life cycle is longer than that. 

Best place to see fleas or flea "dirt" is the lower belly.  Best to not try to find fleas. Instead, look for flea dirt. If you're not sure, use a white tissue/tp and put a dab of water on it. If its red (the host's blood), its flea dirt.

Go ahead and use the sprays and bombs. Just know ahead of time and as I said before, they will not work.  

Fleas being "down" is the same as saying the fleas are flourishing under your care. 

Really.

I don't know how to get it through to you that you cannot just hurt a few or even "80%" as you wrote. You are not doing anything to actually stop your infestation. 

Oh wait, you said you would continue to use the DE.  Depending on how you're using it, you may be getting rid of your problem in spite of yourself. Re-read my instructions on how to use boron/Borax correctly.  Its easy and effective. And, you can treat your home for a year for less than $10, IF you do it right.

DE and/or boron are not "the natural way". They are the only thing I have ever known that actually kills ALL of the life cycles of external parasites. 

I don't know why people just don't seem to GET IT that parasites are fast becoming immune to our pesticides and the answer to that is NOT more pesticides. Whether its in our fields with our food crops or cockroaches in our homes, the bugs are laughing at us. Except for the honey bees and I'd bet that is related.

I've explained, in detail, how to get rid of your problem. Re-read what I wrote or not. I've had considerable experience and I know what works. Your piecemeal approach of a little of this and a little of that ain't gonna cut it and you're making your animals' lives miserable while you fart around.


----------



## Mr. H.

Maybe they're hater dupe fleas.


----------



## Zoom-boing

Luddly Neddite said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Makes me very glad we used the  boron as I described earlier in this thread.
> Works extremely well, non-toxic and cheap.
> 
> What you're going through is exactly what I wrote would happen.
> At the rate you're going, you'll never be rid of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used DE for two weeks exactly as you used Boron -- they both act the same way in the killing of insects --, treated house and animals with it, vacuumed daily, etc, Frontlined all animals ... still had heavy doses of fleas, especially on youngest cat.  After treating animals and house w/VetKem, fleas are down considerably, older cat is flea free, younger cat appears to be flea free; checking the dogs (harder to see on them) but so far do not see fleas (they are still scratching some but that may be due to bites they had rather than active fleas), eggs/larvae are now rendered incapable of becoming fleas.  Will retreat in 14 days to get any pupa that surface and become fleas.  They are going and will be gone for good.  While I much prefer not using these sprays, the natural way wasn't cutting it.  Will continue using DE as preventative treatment along with others that I am looking into.  Have extra VetKem in case they fail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "two weeks"  As I wrote earlier, the life cycle is longer than that.
> 
> Best place to see fleas or flea "dirt" is the lower belly.  Best to not try to find fleas. Instead, look for flea dirt. If you're not sure, use a white tissue/tp and put a dab of water on it. If its red (the host's blood), its flea dirt.
> 
> Go ahead and use the sprays and bombs. Just know ahead of time and as I said before, they will not work.
> 
> Fleas being "down" is the same as saying the fleas are flourishing under your care.
> 
> Really.
> 
> I don't know how to get it through to you that you cannot just hurt a few or even "80%" as you wrote. You are not doing anything to actually stop your infestation.
> 
> Oh wait, you said you would continue to use the DE.  Depending on how you're using it, you may be getting rid of your problem in spite of yourself. Re-read my instructions on how to use boron/Borax correctly.  Its easy and effective. And, you can treat your home for a year for less than $10, IF you do it right.
> 
> DE and/or boron are not "the natural way". They are the only thing I have ever known that actually kills ALL of the life cycles of external parasites.
> 
> I don't know why people just don't seem to GET IT that parasites are fast becoming immune to our pesticides and the answer to that is NOT more pesticides. Whether its in our fields with our food crops or cockroaches in our homes, the bugs are laughing at us. Except for the honey bees and I'd bet that is related.
> 
> I've explained, in detail, how to get rid of your problem. Re-read what I wrote or not. I've had considerable experience and I know what works. Your piecemeal approach of a little of this and a little of that ain't gonna cut it and you're making your animals' lives miserable while you fart around.
Click to expand...


Are you daft?  What part of "I've done what you did just using DE and the animals were full of more fleas" do you not get???  I know the life cycle of a flea is longer than two weeks.  READ:  In two weeks time of just using DE and Frontline we had many, many _more fleas_.  Would the DE or Borax work? EVENTUALLY.  What part of 'eventually wasn't cutting' it do you not get?  The VetKem KILLS 100% of ADULT FLEAS and has a growth-inhibitor than prevents FLEA EGGS and FLEA LARVAE from becoming fleas.  Reapply in two weeks and you've got the PUPA-turn-FLEAS.  What part of 'my youngest cat was loaded with fleas despite using Frontline plus the DE' do you not get?  I'm not interested in just using the DE at this point because it is taking longer than I can deal with and in the meantime, my pets are being chewed to bits.  No shit you can't just get rid of 'some' fleas ... which is why I switched to the VK.  Guess what?  It worked and will continue to work for months.  Try doing some research on the product.  Did you even bother to  read the info I provided about the DE?  From what you posted I'd say no.  

Know where the majority of flee dirt was on my dogs?  Their lower back and hind legs NOT their belly.

wtf piecemeal approach are you talking about?  I tried DE and Frontline for two weeks and the fleas were _increasing_ so I switched to VetKem.  My animals are far, far better today than they were yesterday and before that.  If the Boron worked for you, great and thanks for the info.  But you are seriously acting like an ass at this point with some of the things you are posting.  

I never said "80%" .. I said when I used Capstar on Finn I stopped counting at 80 dead fleas.  Did that do a damn thing for the eggs/larvae on him?  Nope, knew it wouldn't.  But it gave me a great indicator of what I was dealing with.  Combined the VetKem with a Capstar and knocked all adults; VK renders eggs and larvae incapable of becoming fleas.  Lather, rinse, repeat for the dogs.  

Will continue w/DE and am looking into more natural methods to keep fleas at bay; have a back-up of Advantix and VetKem in case they fail.


----------



## syrenn

maintenance with natural products.....great. If you dont have fleas then keeping them at bay with the natural stuff may work.  

you cant do _maintenance_ until you have control of the flea situation.


----------



## dilloduck

Have you tried stabbing them with ice picks ?


----------



## Zoom-boing

dilloduck said:


> Have you tried stabbing them with ice picks ?



They go 'pop' when you cut them with your fingernails.


----------



## Zoom-boing

syrenn said:


> maintenance with natural products.....great. If you dont have fleas then keeping them at bay with the natural stuff may work.
> 
> you cant do _maintenance_ until you have control of the flea situation.



^ Word.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

syrenn said:


> maintenance with natural products.....great. If you dont have fleas then keeping them at bay with the natural stuff may work.
> 
> you cant do _maintenance_ until you have control of the flea situation.



I wouldn't want to live with the Borax on a permanent basis. When we had that infestation, I drenched both our homes in Borax and continued the Frontline on the cats and Interceptor on the dogs as usual. I don't remember the exact amount of time we had the Borax down but it was probably a couple of months or more. Long enough to go through several life cycles of the fleas. The Frontline and Interceptor had NO effect on the fleas.

The fleas are gone now but the wild area around the lake house is full of ticks so we never let up on the Frontline and Interceptor.

Personally, I would like nothing better than to stop putting systemic poison on our animals but I don't know of anything else that keeps the ticks off under control. 

I've been told that eucalyptus, garlic and pennyroyal work on ticks and fleas but tried both some years ago with no luck. 

A few minutes ago, we watched a beautiful red fox on our deck. He cruised around the deck, looking for bird seed and checked the lower deck, ramada and planting bench area before moving on to his next stop. That's what he looked like he was doing - checking his regular stops. Last year, we saw a fox who looked to be at death's door with mange and wonder if this guy was the same fox or a family member who lived through it. Poor things must be loaded with ticks. In Arizona, we used to see jackrabbits drinking at the pond. You could see huge ticks on their ears.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Luddly Neddite said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> maintenance with natural products.....great. If you dont have fleas then keeping them at bay with the natural stuff may work.
> 
> you cant do _maintenance_ until you have control of the flea situation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't want to live with the Borax on a permanent basis. When we had that infestation, I drenched both our homes in Borax and continued the Frontline on the cats and Interceptor on the dogs as usual. I don't remember the exact amount of time we had the Borax down but it was probably a couple of months or more. Long enough to go through several life cycles of the fleas. The Frontline and Interceptor had NO effect on the fleas.
> 
> The fleas are gone now but the wild area around the lake house is full of ticks so we never let up on the Frontline and Interceptor.
> 
> Personally, I would like nothing better than to stop putting systemic poison on our animals but I don't know of anything else that keeps the ticks off under control.
> 
> I've been told that eucalyptus, garlic and pennyroyal work on ticks and fleas but tried both some years ago with no luck.
> 
> A few minutes ago, we watched a beautiful red fox on our deck. He cruised around the deck, looking for bird seed and checked the lower deck, ramada and planting bench area before moving on to his next stop. That's what he looked like he was doing - checking his regular stops. Last year, we saw a fox who looked to be at death's door with mange and wonder if this guy was the same fox or a family member who lived through it. Poor things must be loaded with ticks. In Arizona, we used to see jackrabbits drinking at the pond. You could see huge ticks on their ears.
Click to expand...


it has been years since ringo got the fleas 

then we gave her a bath and a hair cut 

gave her some flea treatment 

and shampooed the carpets 

and sprayed the grass around the house 

we repeated the shampooing and spraying the grass in a few days 

and we have not had a problem since 

we do not use any preventive treatment on her or her cats 

baby and Gary Rodgers


----------



## Zoom-boing

Finn was in the bathtub playing with some trickling water and as he moved back, I saw it. There, in the bathtub, was a flea.  Not just any flea but a herky-jerky, dying flea.  The products I used are working.

Still using the DE on the pets and carpets.  I can get the DE into delicate areas on the pets where I can't get the VetKem.  

Am looking into brewers  yeast and garlic (supplements given to the dogs) as a natural flea repellent.  Anyone ever use them?  How about things like rosemary boiled and cooled then sprayed on and left to dry on the dog?


----------



## Katzndogz

Zoom-boing said:


> Finn was in the bathtub playing with some trickling water and as he moved back, I saw it. There, in the bathtub, was a flea.  Not just any flea but a herky-jerky, dying flea.  The products I used are working.
> 
> Still using the DE on the pets and carpets.  I can get the DE into delicate areas on the pets where I can't get the VetKem.
> 
> Am looking into brewers  yeast and garlic (supplements given to the dogs) as a natural flea repellent.  Anyone ever use them?  How about things like rosemary boiled and cooled then sprayed on and left to dry on the dog?



Garlic is toxic to dogs, but yeast used to work quite well on my cat.  He loved the yeast.  He knew it was in the refrigerator and tried to claw his way in.

Garlic and Dogs, Garlic and Cats - Is Garlic Bad for Dogs and Cats?

Onions, garlic, chives, and leeks are of the Allium family, and are poisonous to both dogs and cats. Garlic is considered to be about five times as potent as onions


----------



## Zoom-boing

I had read that onions were toxic, didn't know about garlic.  Supposedly the amount of garlic or onion consumed would have to be enormous compared to what is in a yeast/garlic tablet ... or so they say.  Of course 'they' are selling a product.  Hmm . . . 

I'll look into just brewers yeast as possible addition in repelling fleas.  Thanks for that info, Katz.


----------



## Zoom-boing

Took Shadow to the vet.  Whether it's from the fleas or the Frontline we'll never know for sure (my gut is telling me it's the FL) but she gave him a two week course of prednisone.  She said the FL should be out of his system about a month after having it applied, which is in two weeks.  

She also did a blood draw to do what they call a 'senior check'.  He is skinny but eats pretty well, she felt that his thyroid may be of concern after an all over physical check, including his neck.  I had actually looked into that before going and am glad she is running tests.  Meds would be the remedy.  

She was like "oh, his back claws really need to be clipped".  So I say "okay, you go ahead and do that".  She came back in 5 minutes and was like "uh, we got the blood but that was about it, he was flying all over the room".  Yeah, now the doc knows why his back claws need to be clipped.

No fleas (despite his reaction to the FL it seems as if it worked), no ear mites, all organs felt okay to her.  He is so sad looking with his baldy spots.  Got the med into him and he is sleeping.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

jon_berzerk said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> maintenance with natural products.....great. If you dont have fleas then keeping them at bay with the natural stuff may work.
> 
> you cant do _maintenance_ until you have control of the flea situation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't want to live with the Borax on a permanent basis. When we had that infestation, I drenched both our homes in Borax and continued the Frontline on the cats and Interceptor on the dogs as usual. I don't remember the exact amount of time we had the Borax down but it was probably a couple of months or more. Long enough to go through several life cycles of the fleas. The Frontline and Interceptor had NO effect on the fleas.
> 
> The fleas are gone now but the wild area around the lake house is full of ticks so we never let up on the Frontline and Interceptor.
> 
> Personally, I would like nothing better than to stop putting systemic poison on our animals but I don't know of anything else that keeps the ticks off under control.
> 
> I've been told that eucalyptus, garlic and pennyroyal work on ticks and fleas but tried both some years ago with no luck.
> 
> A few minutes ago, we watched a beautiful red fox on our deck. He cruised around the deck, looking for bird seed and checked the lower deck, ramada and planting bench area before moving on to his next stop. That's what he looked like he was doing - checking his regular stops. Last year, we saw a fox who looked to be at death's door with mange and wonder if this guy was the same fox or a family member who lived through it. Poor things must be loaded with ticks. In Arizona, we used to see jackrabbits drinking at the pond. You could see huge ticks on their ears.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> it has been years since ringo got the fleas
> 
> then we gave her a bath and a hair cut
> 
> gave her some flea treatment
> 
> and shampooed the carpets
> 
> and sprayed the grass around the house
> 
> we repeated the shampooing and spraying the grass in a few days
> 
> and we have not had a problem since
> 
> we do not use any preventive treatment on her or her cats
> 
> baby and Gary Rodgers
Click to expand...


Ah the good old days. Cross  your fingers you don't get an infestation now because the damn fleas are quite resistant to the things that used to work so well. 

katzen is correct about  garlic being being toxic IF INGESTED. I apologize for not being clear about how it is used but I thought I was being very clear that it is not effective so why bother. The substance that causes the problem is thiosulphate. 



> Supposedly the amount of garlic or onion consumed would have to be enormous compared to what is in a yeast/garlic tablet ... or so they say.



The amount is about .05% of the animal's weight but ASK THE VET.

Cats are considered to be about 7 times more susceptible to onion toxicity than dogs but ASK THE VET.

I've also tried brewer's yeast but found that it had no effect at all but ASK THE VET.



> Whether it's from the fleas or the Frontline we'll never know for sure (my gut is telling me it's the FL) but she gave him a two week course of prednisone.



Its not the Frontline but ASK THE VET. If you go back a ways in this thread, you'll find where I addressed that problem but you could ASK THE VET.


----------



## Zoom-boing

Luddly Neddite said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't want to live with the Borax on a permanent basis. When we had that infestation, I drenched both our homes in Borax and continued the Frontline on the cats and Interceptor on the dogs as usual. I don't remember the exact amount of time we had the Borax down but it was probably a couple of months or more. Long enough to go through several life cycles of the fleas. The Frontline and Interceptor had NO effect on the fleas.
> 
> The fleas are gone now but the wild area around the lake house is full of ticks so we never let up on the Frontline and Interceptor.
> 
> Personally, I would like nothing better than to stop putting systemic poison on our animals but I don't know of anything else that keeps the ticks off under control.
> 
> I've been told that eucalyptus, garlic and pennyroyal work on ticks and fleas but tried both some years ago with no luck.
> 
> A few minutes ago, we watched a beautiful red fox on our deck. He cruised around the deck, looking for bird seed and checked the lower deck, ramada and planting bench area before moving on to his next stop. That's what he looked like he was doing - checking his regular stops. Last year, we saw a fox who looked to be at death's door with mange and wonder if this guy was the same fox or a family member who lived through it. Poor things must be loaded with ticks. In Arizona, we used to see jackrabbits drinking at the pond. You could see huge ticks on their ears.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it has been years since ringo got the fleas
> 
> then we gave her a bath and a hair cut
> 
> gave her some flea treatment
> 
> and shampooed the carpets
> 
> and sprayed the grass around the house
> 
> we repeated the shampooing and spraying the grass in a few days
> 
> and we have not had a problem since
> 
> we do not use any preventive treatment on her or her cats
> 
> baby and Gary Rodgers
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah the good old days. Cross  your fingers you don't get an infestation now because the damn fleas are quite resistant to the things that used to work so well.
> 
> katzen is correct about  garlic being being toxic IF INGESTED. I apologize for not being clear about how it is used but I thought I was being very clear that it is not effective so why bother. The substance that causes the problem is thiosulphate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Supposedly the amount of garlic or onion consumed would have to be enormous compared to what is in a yeast/garlic tablet ... or so they say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The amount is about .05% of the animal's weight but ASK THE VET.
> 
> Cats are considered to be about 7 times more susceptible to onion toxicity than dogs but ASK THE VET.
> 
> I've also tried brewer's yeast but found that it had no effect at all but ASK THE VET.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whether it's from the fleas or the Frontline we'll never know for sure (my gut is telling me it's the FL) but she gave him a two week course of prednisone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its not the Frontline but ASK THE VET. If you go back a ways in this thread, you'll find where I addressed that problem but you could ASK THE VET.
Click to expand...


Was with a different animal at the vet and was not thinking about brewers yeast and garlic. Was only looking to use these supplements on the dogs, not the cats, as I stated earlier.  My confidence with doctors (based on my personal experience) is not very high when is comes to alternative meds/treatment .. I've found that most scoff at anything even resembling 'natural' so I don't usually bring it up.  Doing my own research I'm finding that what is used in brewers yeast and garlic tablets is a beneficial amount of garlic and that dogs and cats would have to consume much,much more onion and garlic for it to be toxic.  Doesn't matter as the vitamins I purchased have the brewers yeast sans garlic.  Win, win.

I did ask the vet if she thought it was the FL or the fleas ... she said there is no way to tell.  It could be either.  He had fleas and had been getting bit but only AFTER we applied the FL did he start w/the compulsive licking/scratching/fur pulling.  You have no way of knowing that the FL wasn't responsible.  Neither do I, I am going by what I've witnessed with my cat.

I looked but did not see anything you posted about FL except that it didn't work for fleas on your pets.


----------



## syrenn

Zoom-boing said:


> Was with a different animal at the vet and was not thinking about brewers yeast and garlic. Was only looking to use these supplements on the dogs, not the cats, as I stated earlier.  My confidence with doctors (based on my personal experience) is not very high when is comes to alternative meds/treatment .. I've found that most scoff at anything even resembling 'natural' so I don't usually bring it up.  Doing my own research I'm finding that what is used in brewers yeast and garlic tablets is a beneficial amount of garlic and that dogs and cats would have to consume much,much more onion and garlic for it to be toxic.  Doesn't matter as the vitamins I purchased have the brewers yeast sans garlic.  Win, win.
> 
> I did ask the vet if she thought it was the FL or the fleas ... she said there is no way to tell.  It could be either.  He had fleas and had been getting bit but only AFTER we applied the FL did he start w/the compulsive licking/scratching/fur pulling.  You have no way of knowing that the FL wasn't responsible.  Neither do I, I am going by what I've witnessed with my cat.
> 
> I looked but did not see anything you posted about FL except that it didn't work for fleas on your pets.







I have NO idea if this would work....... but i saw this early this year... so planted catnip around our yard door...and ya know.... no mosquitoes... and they have always loved it around that door.....

I wonder if it work on fleas  



> Researchers report that nepetalactone, the essential oil in catnip that gives the plant its characteristic odor, is about ten times more effective at repelling mosquitoes than DEET &#8212; the compound used in most commercial insect repellents.



Catnip Repels Mosquitoes More Effectively Than DEET

How to Make Catnip Mosquito Repellent | eHow


----------



## Zoom-boing

syrenn said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was with a different animal at the vet and was not thinking about brewers yeast and garlic. Was only looking to use these supplements on the dogs, not the cats, as I stated earlier.  My confidence with doctors (based on my personal experience) is not very high when is comes to alternative meds/treatment .. I've found that most scoff at anything even resembling 'natural' so I don't usually bring it up.  Doing my own research I'm finding that what is used in brewers yeast and garlic tablets is a beneficial amount of garlic and that dogs and cats would have to consume much,much more onion and garlic for it to be toxic.  Doesn't matter as the vitamins I purchased have the brewers yeast sans garlic.  Win, win.
> 
> I did ask the vet if she thought it was the FL or the fleas ... she said there is no way to tell.  It could be either.  He had fleas and had been getting bit but only AFTER we applied the FL did he start w/the compulsive licking/scratching/fur pulling.  You have no way of knowing that the FL wasn't responsible.  Neither do I, I am going by what I've witnessed with my cat.
> 
> I looked but did not see anything you posted about FL except that it didn't work for fleas on your pets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have NO idea if this would work....... but i saw this early this year... so planted catnip around our yard door...and ya know.... no mosquitoes... and they have always loved it around that door.....
> 
> I wonder if it work on fleas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Researchers report that nepetalactone, the essential oil in catnip that gives the plant its characteristic odor, is about ten times more effective at repelling mosquitoes than DEET  the compound used in most commercial insect repellents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Catnip Repels Mosquitoes More Effectively Than DEET
> 
> How to Make Catnip Mosquito Repellent | eHow
Click to expand...


That presents a conundrum for us .... lots of feral cats around cause crazy cat lady refused to stop feeding them. Catnip plants would draw them in even more. We were planning on planting lavender in the area where they were using the mulch as a litterbox and putting down orange citrus peels to try and discourage them from coming into the yard.  

I found this on what to plant to repel fleas and lavender was one of the plants suggested.  

Plants That Repel Fleas

DEET!  I loved how that smelled ... reminds me of being a kid down the shore.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Zoom-boing said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was with a different animal at the vet and was not thinking about brewers yeast and garlic. Was only looking to use these supplements on the dogs, not the cats, as I stated earlier.  My confidence with doctors (based on my personal experience) is not very high when is comes to alternative meds/treatment .. I've found that most scoff at anything even resembling 'natural' so I don't usually bring it up.  Doing my own research I'm finding that what is used in brewers yeast and garlic tablets is a beneficial amount of garlic and that dogs and cats would have to consume much,much more onion and garlic for it to be toxic.  Doesn't matter as the vitamins I purchased have the brewers yeast sans garlic.  Win, win.
> 
> I did ask the vet if she thought it was the FL or the fleas ... she said there is no way to tell.  It could be either.  He had fleas and had been getting bit but only AFTER we applied the FL did he start w/the compulsive licking/scratching/fur pulling.  You have no way of knowing that the FL wasn't responsible.  Neither do I, I am going by what I've witnessed with my cat.
> 
> I looked but did not see anything you posted about FL except that it didn't work for fleas on your pets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have NO idea if this would work....... but i saw this early this year... so planted catnip around our yard door...and ya know.... no mosquitoes... and they have always loved it around that door.....
> 
> I wonder if it work on fleas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Researchers report that nepetalactone, the essential oil in catnip that gives the plant its characteristic odor, is about ten times more effective at repelling mosquitoes than DEET  the compound used in most commercial insect repellents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Catnip Repels Mosquitoes More Effectively Than DEET
> 
> How to Make Catnip Mosquito Repellent | eHow
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That presents a conundrum for us .... lots of feral cats around cause crazy cat lady refused to stop feeding them. Catnip plants would draw them in even more. We were planning on planting lavender in the area where they were using the mulch as a litterbox and putting down orange citrus peels to try and discourage them from coming into the yard.
> 
> I found this on what to plant to repel fleas and lavender was one of the plants suggested.
> 
> Plants That Repel Fleas
> 
> DEET!  I loved how that smelled ... reminds me of being a kid down the shore.
Click to expand...


we grow catnip around the house 

didnt realize it thwarted bugs 

we grow it because both baby and gary rodgers 

are junkies --LOL


----------



## Zoom-boing

jon_berzerk said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have NO idea if this would work....... but i saw this early this year... so planted catnip around our yard door...and ya know.... no mosquitoes... and they have always loved it around that door.....
> 
> I wonder if it work on fleas
> 
> 
> 
> Catnip Repels Mosquitoes More Effectively Than DEET
> 
> How to Make Catnip Mosquito Repellent | eHow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That presents a conundrum for us .... lots of feral cats around cause crazy cat lady refused to stop feeding them. Catnip plants would draw them in even more. We were planning on planting lavender in the area where they were using the mulch as a litterbox and putting down orange citrus peels to try and discourage them from coming into the yard.
> 
> I found this on what to plant to repel fleas and lavender was one of the plants suggested.
> 
> Plants That Repel Fleas
> 
> DEET!  I loved how that smelled ... reminds me of being a kid down the shore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> we grow catnip around the house
> 
> didnt realize it thwarted bugs
> 
> we grow it because both baby and gary rodgers
> 
> are junkies --LOL
Click to expand...




I just saw a black cat (one of the 'wild' ones) trot across our patio and hop the fence.  He may have been the sibling we missed last summer when a litter of kittens were born under our shed ... yes, our youngest cat is one of those kittens.  The wild one looks just like our Finn. 

Went out and sure enough, big pile of cat poo on top of the freshly mulched empty space in the garden.  He didn't even bother to dig a hole or cover it up!  Glad I saw him cause the dogs would have had a snack.  Gotta get to the garden store for some lavender.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Zoom-boing said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> That presents a conundrum for us .... lots of feral cats around cause crazy cat lady refused to stop feeding them. Catnip plants would draw them in even more. We were planning on planting lavender in the area where they were using the mulch as a litterbox and putting down orange citrus peels to try and discourage them from coming into the yard.
> 
> I found this on what to plant to repel fleas and lavender was one of the plants suggested.
> 
> Plants That Repel Fleas
> 
> DEET!  I loved how that smelled ... reminds me of being a kid down the shore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we grow catnip around the house
> 
> didnt realize it thwarted bugs
> 
> we grow it because both baby and gary rodgers
> 
> are junkies --LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw a black cat (one of the 'wild' ones) trot across our patio and hop the fence.  He may have been the sibling we missed last summer when a litter of kittens were born under our shed ... yes, our youngest cat is one of those kittens.  The wild one looks just like our Finn.
> 
> Went out and sure enough, big pile of cat poo on top of the freshly mulched empty space in the garden.  He didn't even bother to dig a hole or cover it up!  Glad I saw him cause the dogs would have had a snack.  Gotta get to the garden store for some lavender.
Click to expand...


--LOL

even though we consider ringo one of our fur kids 

she has been known to eat a few cat made nut rolls herself 

really disgusting


----------



## Zoom-boing

Just got a call from the vet on Shadow's blood work.

Everything is normal (some things at the high end of normal but within the normal range).  He is not hyperthyroid yet but may become so in the future.

The only thing completely off?  His white blood count was very, very high ... from a severe allergic reaction.  Again, no way to know if the reaction is from the fleas or the FL.  She said after the two week course of prednisone it should be resolved and his fur will (eventually) start to grow back.

He has been spending tons of time in my oldest's room and she said that he is like a different cat last night and this morning.  And this after only one dose of the prednisone!  Poor Shadow, I had no idea that's what an allergic reaction could look like, never experienced anything like it before.  I'm so glad I took him to the vet.  

With the med, dietary changes (crap food is gone, much better food is in, vitamins and omegas in) maybe he'll gain a bit of weight and not have that 'skinny old cat' thing going on.  

On a side note, found two dead fleas in Finn's water dish in the basement last night and one just about dead flea in a plastic toy this morning.  The basement is def ground zero in the flea war; the VetKem is def working.  Have to remain vigilant.  Am applying DE all around the perimeter and will re-VK it in two weeks.  I'm gonna git those suckers!


----------



## PixieStix

As I stated early in the thread. I would never use advantage, or frontline. Many animals are allergic, and they only exacerbate the problem.

As I searched for a real solution. I found that revolution works for a few reason. Not only does it kill the fleas, but it also kills the eggs. Plus it repels other fleas. It lasts for a month, on my animals it lasts for 2 months. Because it repels other live fleas, the life cycle of the flea will be diminished inside the home. Outside AND inside the home your pets will repel them.

No need to complicate the issue.

I have had upwards of 6 pets in my home at one time, and I have not had to deal with those little creepy fleas since being introduced to revolution. And some of them are in and out pets.

I refuse to use any more chemical sprays or powders in my home. Have not had to since I started using revolution.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

> My confidence with doctors (based on my personal experience) is not very high when is comes to alternative meds/treatment .. I've found that most scoff at anything even resembling 'natural' so I don't usually bring it up.



My experience as well. It was a wake up call for me when I saw that both our homes and our animals were infested with fleas because I believed that Capstar would kill every external parasite on that poor little dumped puppy. It was my fault because I did not stick to what I know is true. 

I lived near Tucson for more than 25 years. Ticks, fleas and cockroaches flourish there and I was inundated with all of them for a lot of years because I believed the professionals. It was not until I stated using Borax that we were flea/tick free and my poor animals could finally grow a normal coat and not chew themselves into a frenzy. 

I once killed a little black lab puppy by dipping her in Zodiac. It wasn't Zodiac's fault. We had dipped 50 or 60 dogs that day in the same solution but she had an anaphalactic reaction. It took two hours of her screaming before she died. My vet said that even if it had happened in her office, there would not have been anything to save her. That was when I decided I would not put these horrible poisons on my yard or my animals and I've never had a problem since. 

We live in an area where there is bobcat fever. ( Cytauxzoon felis) Our cats are inside only but ticks come in on the dog or on us. If it were not for that, I would not put Frontline on the cats. In SW AZ, tick fever was a real problem. Not so much here but that's the biggest reason I use Interceptor on the dog. 

I would not go back to all the bombs and spraying for anything. They simply do not work and I've seen the misery the skin irritation causes the animals. Nothing but Borax for me because I know it works.


----------



## PixieStix

Baking Soda is also used to kill via dehydration, it's available in large amounts as a food grade material and safe for family and pets when used inside the home (carpets and floors) a layer can be sprinkled onto a carpet and worked into the fibers down to where the larvae and eggs are to dehydrate and kill them. It can be easily vacuumed up afterwards with safe disposal... often multiple weekly treatments will be required to remove an infestation completely.


----------



## Zoom-boing

Luddly Neddite said:


> My confidence with doctors (based on my personal experience) is not very high when is comes to alternative meds/treatment .. I've found that most scoff at anything even resembling 'natural' so I don't usually bring it up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My experience as well. It was a wake up call for me when I saw that both our homes and our animals were infested with fleas because *I believed that Capstar would kill every external parasite on that poor little dumped puppy. It was my fault because I did not stick to what I know is true. *
> 
> I lived near Tucson for more than 25 years. Ticks, fleas and cockroaches flourish there and I was inundated with all of them for a lot of years because I believed the professionals. It was not until I stated using Borax that we were flea/tick free and my poor animals could finally grow a normal coat and not chew themselves into a frenzy.
> 
> I once killed a little black lab puppy by dipping her in Zodiac. It wasn't Zodiac's fault. We had dipped 50 or 60 dogs that day in the same solution but she had an anaphalactic reaction. It took two hours of her screaming before she died. My vet said that even if it had happened in her office, there would not have been anything to save her. That was when I decided I would not put these horrible poisons on my yard or my animals and I've never had a problem since.
> 
> We live in an area where there is bobcat fever. ( Cytauxzoon felis) Our cats are inside only but ticks come in on the dog or on us. If it were not for that, I would not put Frontline on the cats. In SW AZ, tick fever was a real problem. Not so much here but that's the biggest reason I use Interceptor on the dog.
> 
> I would not go back to all the bombs and spraying for anything. They simply do not work and I've seen the misery the skin irritation causes the animals. Nothing but Borax for me because I know it works.
Click to expand...


Capstar does kill all the adults fleas on a pet (it did with ours) but it only lasts for 24 hours.  It does nothing about the eggs/larvae/pupa stages (states it on the packaging), so the fleas just keep coming.  The Capstar is a good tool to measure how many adult fleas you are dealing with and as the fleas die off with pet and home treatment, you can measure that reduction against the original count.  


Did your dogs or cats ever lick the borax, even by mistake?  What if they lay on the carpet and the borax gets on their fur then they lick it?  Any problems with it?  During the time you used the borax for infestations, I thought you said you didn't use anything on your pets (other than the FL, which you said didn't do anything for the fleas).  Weren't your pets bit all the time?  I don't see how just treating the environment but not the pets themselves would result in successfully eliminating fleas.


----------



## Zoom-boing

PixieStix said:


> As I stated early in the thread. I would never use advantage, or frontline. Many animals are allergic, and they only exacerbate the problem.
> 
> As I searched for a real solution. I found that revolution works for a few reason. Not only does it kill the fleas, but it also kills the eggs. Plus it repels other fleas. It lasts for a month, on my animals it lasts for 2 months. Because it repels other live fleas, the life cycle of the flea will be diminished inside the home. Outside AND inside the home your pets will repel them.
> 
> No need to complicate the issue.
> 
> I have had upwards of 6 pets in my home at one time, and I have not had to deal with those little creepy fleas since being introduced to revolution. And some of them are in and out pets.
> 
> I refuse to use any more chemical sprays or powders in my home. Have not had to since I started using revolution.




Pixie ... did you treat just the animals with the Revolution or did you also treat your home with baking soda and/or other natural products?


----------



## PixieStix

Zoom-boing said:


> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> 
> As I stated early in the thread. I would never use advantage, or frontline. Many animals are allergic, and they only exacerbate the problem.
> 
> As I searched for a real solution. I found that revolution works for a few reason. Not only does it kill the fleas, but it also kills the eggs. Plus it repels other fleas. It lasts for a month, on my animals it lasts for 2 months. Because it repels other live fleas, the life cycle of the flea will be diminished inside the home. Outside AND inside the home your pets will repel them.
> 
> No need to complicate the issue.
> 
> I have had upwards of 6 pets in my home at one time, and I have not had to deal with those little creepy fleas since being introduced to revolution. And some of them are in and out pets.
> 
> I refuse to use any more chemical sprays or powders in my home. Have not had to since I started using revolution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pixie ... did you treat just the animals with the Revolution or did you also treat your home with baking soda and/or other natural products?
Click to expand...


When I realized fleas were in my carpet, I used baking soda once a week for 4 weeks, I also used it on the pets beds. The then washed the pets beds. The same day I started that process, I also treated all my pets with Revolution. Never saw another flea from that day forward. Wish I had known about it sooner. This was 4 years ago, and I will never go back

I still use baking soda occasionally, only for freshening purposes. No fleas involved

AND, I wish I had all the wasted money on all the other so called solutions


----------



## Zoom-boing

PixieStix said:


> As I stated early in the thread. I would never use advantage, or frontline. Many animals are allergic, and they only exacerbate the problem.
> 
> As I searched for a real solution. I found that revolution works for a few reason. Not only does it kill the fleas, but it also kills the eggs. Plus it repels other fleas. It lasts for a month, on my animals it lasts for 2 months. Because it repels other live fleas, the life cycle of the flea will be diminished inside the home. Outside AND inside the home your pets will repel them.
> 
> No need to complicate the issue.
> 
> I have had upwards of 6 pets in my home at one time, and I have not had to deal with those little creepy fleas since being introduced to revolution. And some of them are in and out pets.
> 
> I refuse to use any more chemical sprays or powders in my home. Have not had to since I started using revolution.



The Revolution product sounds like the AdvantixII for dogs product.  That also kills and repels adult fleas, inhibits flea egg and larvae growth, repels and kills mosquitoes, repels biting flies, kills chewing lice. 

I loathe using the spray in the house but the DE just wasn't working fast enough.  And now that Shadow had a reaction (I think to the FL but possibly to the fleas) I am really trying to get rid of them as fast as possible. 

I can not apply the AdvantixII until next week.  I am hoping it works because as much as I'm treating the animals I need something that will work continuously for them, killing all stages of fleas.  The only thing it doesn't say it works on is the pupa stage of the flea but I don't think anything works on that.  Once they emerge and jump on your pet, the flea treatment is suppose to kill that flea.  I am also hoping that Finn(cat) doesn't have an adverse reaction to it (well, I don't want the dogs to either) because he is the one with the most fleas.


----------



## Zoom-boing

PixieStix said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> 
> As I stated early in the thread. I would never use advantage, or frontline. Many animals are allergic, and they only exacerbate the problem.
> 
> As I searched for a real solution. I found that revolution works for a few reason. Not only does it kill the fleas, but it also kills the eggs. Plus it repels other fleas. It lasts for a month, on my animals it lasts for 2 months. Because it repels other live fleas, the life cycle of the flea will be diminished inside the home. Outside AND inside the home your pets will repel them.
> 
> No need to complicate the issue.
> 
> I have had upwards of 6 pets in my home at one time, and I have not had to deal with those little creepy fleas since being introduced to revolution. And some of them are in and out pets.
> 
> I refuse to use any more chemical sprays or powders in my home. Have not had to since I started using revolution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pixie ... did you treat just the animals with the Revolution or did you also treat your home with baking soda and/or other natural products?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When I realized fleas were in my carpet, I used baking soda once a week for 4 weeks, I also used it on the pets beds. The then washed the pets beds. The same day I started that process, I also treated all my pets with Revolution. Never saw another flea from that day forward. Wish I had known about it sooner. This was 4 years ago, and I will never go back
> 
> I still use baking soda occasionally, only for freshening purposes. No fleas involved
> 
> AND, I wish I had all the wasted money on all the other so called solutions
Click to expand...


Did you not vacuum the entire time and just leave it sit there?  I use the DE and leave it sit in the carpet for two days then vacuum to get up any eggs/larvae/fleas ... even ones that didn't die, then reapply another round of DE.  

I read you can combine DE/baking soda/salt or Borax/baking soda/salt and it works very well.  Haven't done that yet.


----------



## PixieStix

Zoom-boing said:


> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pixie ... did you treat just the animals with the Revolution or did you also treat your home with baking soda and/or other natural products?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I realized fleas were in my carpet, I used baking soda once a week for 4 weeks, I also used it on the pets beds. The then washed the pets beds. The same day I started that process, I also treated all my pets with Revolution. Never saw another flea from that day forward. Wish I had known about it sooner. This was 4 years ago, and I will never go back
> 
> I still use baking soda occasionally, only for freshening purposes. No fleas involved
> 
> AND, I wish I had all the wasted money on all the other so called solutions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you not vacuum the entire time and just leave it sit there?  I use the DE and leave it sit in the carpet for two days then vacuum to get up any eggs/larvae/fleas ... even ones that didn't die, then reapply another round of DE.
> 
> I read you can combine DE/baking soda/salt or Borax/baking soda/salt and it works very well.  Haven't done that yet.
Click to expand...


I left it sit for a half hour then vacuumed. The flea needs a host that has the PH that they need. They do not desire the ph that humans have. So if you treat the pet with the ph level that fleas love, they will die out and the flea eggs will not hatch.

Another tip, is that revolution makes a chewable tablet for dogs, and if you are putting it on with the liquid form, put a drop from the head down the spine all the way down to the base of the tail.

For cats, put it on the top of their head, because it is less likely that they lick it off


----------



## AyeCantSeeYou

You can use Borax on carpet to help get rid of the fleas hidden in it. 

Borax for Fleas


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Zoom-boing said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My confidence with doctors (based on my personal experience) is not very high when is comes to alternative meds/treatment .. I've found that most scoff at anything even resembling 'natural' so I don't usually bring it up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My experience as well. It was a wake up call for me when I saw that both our homes and our animals were infested with fleas because *I believed that Capstar would kill every external parasite on that poor little dumped puppy. It was my fault because I did not stick to what I know is true. *
> 
> I lived near Tucson for more than 25 years. Ticks, fleas and cockroaches flourish there and I was inundated with all of them for a lot of years because I believed the professionals. It was not until I stated using Borax that we were flea/tick free and my poor animals could finally grow a normal coat and not chew themselves into a frenzy.
> 
> I once killed a little black lab puppy by dipping her in Zodiac. It wasn't Zodiac's fault. We had dipped 50 or 60 dogs that day in the same solution but she had an anaphalactic reaction. It took two hours of her screaming before she died. My vet said that even if it had happened in her office, there would not have been anything to save her. That was when I decided I would not put these horrible poisons on my yard or my animals and I've never had a problem since.
> 
> We live in an area where there is bobcat fever. ( Cytauxzoon felis) Our cats are inside only but ticks come in on the dog or on us. If it were not for that, I would not put Frontline on the cats. In SW AZ, tick fever was a real problem. Not so much here but that's the biggest reason I use Interceptor on the dog.
> 
> I would not go back to all the bombs and spraying for anything. They simply do not work and I've seen the misery the skin irritation causes the animals. Nothing but Borax for me because I know it works.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Capstar does kill all the adults fleas on a pet (it did with ours) but it only lasts for 24 hours.  It does nothing about the eggs/larvae/pupa stages (states it on the packaging), so the fleas just keep coming.  The Capstar is a good tool to measure how many adult fleas you are dealing with and as the fleas die off with pet and home treatment, you can measure that reduction against the original count.
> 
> 
> Did your dogs or cats ever lick the borax, even by mistake?  What if they lay on the carpet and the borax gets on their fur then they lick it?  Any problems with it?  During the time you used the borax for infestations, I thought you said you didn't use anything on your pets (other than the FL, which you said didn't do anything for the fleas).  Weren't your pets bit all the time?  I don't see how just treating the environment but not the pets themselves would result in successfully eliminating fleas.
Click to expand...


Earlier in this thread, I wrote that my granddaughter had eaten quite a large amount of Boraxo. I also wrote about my own, non-animal, testing. What I wrote earlier is that the toxicologist at Boraxo told me and poison control repeated, that it would take a couple of cups to cause any reaction and that reaction would be turning the stool green. 

Earlier in the this thread I wrote that the reason not to put it directly on the animal is that it, in very large amounts, it can cause the skin to actually break down. It would take an enormous amount to cause that to happen and the DE you are using would do exactly the same thing because it is also a descant. 

The biggest difference between using boron (Boraxo) and DE is the cost. With Boraxo, a year's supply will cost you, maybe $10.

I've noticed you don't really read very carefully. Sorry, but its just true. I also didn't go into unnecessary detail but, I never used Frontline when I lived in Tucson. I used ONLY Boraxo for ticks and fleas and the boric acid recipe I described earlier in this thread for cockroaches. I never needed anything else in Tucson. 

I now live in a very remote area on a lake. We have wildlife near the house every day, including bobcats which can carry bobcat fever. We treat our cats with Frontline and the dog with Interceptor to stop ticks - hopefully - from giving our cats bobcat fever. 

With the puppy we found about a year and a half ago, we found the Capstar did not work and, as a result, fleas were introduced to both our homes. We found the Frontline to be ineffective in stopping the fleas infestation but got rid of every last flea more than a year ago. 

Earlier, you wrote that external parasites spend most of their life cycles ON the host animals. That's not true but believe whatever you want. Bottom line is that treating the environment is the only thing that will work and pesticides are useless against the fleas we have in our area. 

Humans are the only animals who systematically poison their own nests. We've poured on so much poison, its become ineffective. Just as we're seeing with antibiotics.

Years ago, the biggest pest exterminator in Tucson was quoted in the daily newspaper as saying he does not use his own products because they don't work. Amazingly, no one seemed to notice what he said and he continued to make his living spraying poison in people's homes. 

When I lived within the city limits, I had a neighbor a few doors down who made his living as the owner of a small extermination business. Every single member of his family had cancer. EVERY SINGLE ONE.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

PixieStix said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I realized fleas were in my carpet, I used baking soda once a week for 4 weeks, I also used it on the pets beds. The then washed the pets beds. The same day I started that process, I also treated all my pets with Revolution. Never saw another flea from that day forward. Wish I had known about it sooner. This was 4 years ago, and I will never go back
> 
> I still use baking soda occasionally, only for freshening purposes. No fleas involved
> 
> AND, I wish I had all the wasted money on all the other so called solutions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you not vacuum the entire time and just leave it sit there?  I use the DE and leave it sit in the carpet for two days then vacuum to get up any eggs/larvae/fleas ... even ones that didn't die, then reapply another round of DE.
> 
> I read you can combine DE/baking soda/salt or Borax/baking soda/salt and it works very well.  Haven't done that yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I left it sit for a half hour then vacuumed. The flea needs a host that has the PH that they need. They do not desire the ph that humans have. So if you treat the pet with the ph level that fleas love, they will die out and the flea eggs will not hatch.
> 
> Another tip, is that revolution makes a chewable tablet for dogs, and if you are putting it on with the liquid form, put a drop from the head down the spine all the way down to the base of the tail.
> 
> For cats, put it on the top of their head, because it is less likely that they lick it off
Click to expand...


Half hour wouldn't really do much if you have an infestation because you have to get all the life cycles.

I hope you're not saying to put liquid all along the spine, from head to tail.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Zoom-boing said:


> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pixie ... did you treat just the animals with the Revolution or did you also treat your home with baking soda and/or other natural products?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I realized fleas were in my carpet, I used baking soda once a week for 4 weeks, I also used it on the pets beds. The then washed the pets beds. The same day I started that process, I also treated all my pets with Revolution. Never saw another flea from that day forward. Wish I had known about it sooner. This was 4 years ago, and I will never go back
> 
> I still use baking soda occasionally, only for freshening purposes. No fleas involved
> 
> AND, I wish I had all the wasted money on all the other so called solutions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you not vacuum the entire time and just leave it sit there?  I use the DE and leave it sit in the carpet for two days then vacuum to get up any eggs/larvae/fleas ... even ones that didn't die, then reapply another round of DE.
> 
> I read you can combine DE/baking soda/salt or Borax/baking soda/salt and it works very well.  Haven't done that yet.
Click to expand...


Make sure you get the boraxo into the crack where the wall meets the floor and leave it alone for at least a couple of weeks. We left ours for several weeks and added to it  if we found spots where the powder was gone. No, its no fun having the powder all over your house but it works and its not poisoning your animals. Just leave it alone and let it do its work. Re-read the directions I wrote on page one and just leave the boraxo alone. 

I wouldn't bother mixing stuff together. No need. OTOH, you seem to want to futz with this instead of just treating the problem. If you feel better mixing stuff together, I can't see how it would hurt. 

By now, your vet probably has your animals on prednizone and antibiotics for their skin. I wrote about that earlier as well.


----------



## Zoom-boing

Luddly Neddite said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> My experience as well. It was a wake up call for me when I saw that both our homes and our animals were infested with fleas because *I believed that Capstar would kill every external parasite on that poor little dumped puppy. It was my fault because I did not stick to what I know is true. *
> 
> I lived near Tucson for more than 25 years. Ticks, fleas and cockroaches flourish there and I was inundated with all of them for a lot of years because I believed the professionals. It was not until I stated using Borax that we were flea/tick free and my poor animals could finally grow a normal coat and not chew themselves into a frenzy.
> 
> I once killed a little black lab puppy by dipping her in Zodiac. It wasn't Zodiac's fault. We had dipped 50 or 60 dogs that day in the same solution but she had an anaphalactic reaction. It took two hours of her screaming before she died. My vet said that even if it had happened in her office, there would not have been anything to save her. That was when I decided I would not put these horrible poisons on my yard or my animals and I've never had a problem since.
> 
> We live in an area where there is bobcat fever. ( Cytauxzoon felis) Our cats are inside only but ticks come in on the dog or on us. If it were not for that, I would not put Frontline on the cats. In SW AZ, tick fever was a real problem. Not so much here but that's the biggest reason I use Interceptor on the dog.
> 
> I would not go back to all the bombs and spraying for anything. They simply do not work and I've seen the misery the skin irritation causes the animals. Nothing but Borax for me because I know it works.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Capstar does kill all the adults fleas on a pet (it did with ours) but it only lasts for 24 hours.  It does nothing about the eggs/larvae/pupa stages (states it on the packaging), so the fleas just keep coming.  The Capstar is a good tool to measure how many adult fleas you are dealing with and as the fleas die off with pet and home treatment, you can measure that reduction against the original count.
> 
> 
> Did your dogs or cats ever lick the borax, even by mistake?  What if they lay on the carpet and the borax gets on their fur then they lick it?  Any problems with it?  During the time you used the borax for infestations, I thought you said you didn't use anything on your pets (other than the FL, which you said didn't do anything for the fleas).  Weren't your pets bit all the time?  I don't see how just treating the environment but not the pets themselves would result in successfully eliminating fleas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Earlier in this thread, I wrote that my granddaughter had eaten quite a large amount of Boraxo. I also wrote about my own, non-animal, testing. What I wrote earlier is that the toxicologist at Boraxo told me and poison control repeated, that it would take a couple of cups to cause any reaction and that reaction would be turning the stool green.
> 
> Earlier in the this thread I wrote that the reason not to put it directly on the animal is that it, in very large amounts, it can cause the skin to actually break down. It would take an enormous amount to cause that to happen and t*he DE you are using would do exactly the same thing because it is also a descant. *
> 
> The biggest difference between using boron (Boraxo) and DE is the cost. With Boraxo, a year's supply will cost you, maybe $10.
> 
> *I've noticed you don't really read very carefully. Sorry, but its just true. I also didn't go into unnecessary detail but, I never used Frontline when I lived in Tucson. I used ONLY Boraxo for ticks and fleas and the boric acid recipe I described earlier in this thread for cockroaches. I never needed anything else in Tucson.
> *
> I now live in a very remote area on a lake. We have wildlife near the house every day, including bobcats which can carry bobcat fever. We treat our cats with Frontline and the dog with Interceptor to stop ticks - hopefully - from giving our cats bobcat fever.
> 
> With the puppy we found about a year and a half ago, we found the Capstar did not work and, as a result, fleas were introduced to both our homes. *We found the Frontline to be ineffective in stopping the fleas infestation but got rid of every last flea more than a year ago. *
> 
> *Earlier, you wrote that external parasites spend most of their life cycles ON the host animals. That's not true but believe whatever you want. *Bottom line is that treating the environment is the only thing that will work and pesticides are useless against the fleas we have in our area.
> 
> Humans are the only animals who systematically poison their own nests. We've poured on so much poison, its become ineffective. Just as we're seeing with antibiotics.
> 
> Years ago, the biggest pest exterminator in Tucson was quoted in the daily newspaper as saying he does not use his own products because they don't work. Amazingly, no one seemed to notice what he said and he continued to make his living spraying poison in people's homes.
> 
> When I lived within the city limits, I had a neighbor a few doors down who made his living as the owner of a small extermination business. Every single member of his family had cancer. EVERY SINGLE ONE.
Click to expand...


First bolded:  DE does not break down human skin (it does dry it out some), it does put tiny slices in the exoskeleton of insects, which in turn causes them to lose moisture and die.  It is safe, it is non-toxic to humans and animals; I even pointed out information stating such in links you provided.  Again, I am talking about food grade DE.  I provided links with a lot of information on the safety, effectiveness, and benefits of DE.  You obviously did not read that information and are, therefore, still misinformed.

Second bolded:  No, I did not pick up where you were living when you used what product.  Perhaps the way you words things is confusing.  For example:

Third bolded:  "We found the Frontline to be ineffective in stopping the fleas infestation but got rid of every last flea more than a year ago."  The way you wrote this sentence reads as if Frontline was ineffective in stopping fleas but we got rid of every last flea ... using Frontline.  It is implied, it is how your sentence is structured.  I"ll be sure to ask more questions so as not to misunderstand what you write.  Also, the Capstar may have killed the adult fleas but since it does not do a thing to the eggs/larvae they fell off, turned into fleas, and started the cycle in your home.  Just a thought.

Fourth bolded:  I wasn't clear .... adult fleas spend the vast majority of their life on their host.  Adult fleas are only a small percent of the fleas, though.  Something like 5% are adults, the remaining are in various stages of the cycle and are off the animal (most but not all) during this time.  Once they emerge as fleas, they hop, hop, hop right back onto the host.

Appreciate all the info you are providing.  Thanks.


----------



## Zoom-boing

Luddly Neddite said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I realized fleas were in my carpet, I used baking soda once a week for 4 weeks, I also used it on the pets beds. The then washed the pets beds. The same day I started that process, I also treated all my pets with Revolution. Never saw another flea from that day forward. Wish I had known about it sooner. This was 4 years ago, and I will never go back
> 
> I still use baking soda occasionally, only for freshening purposes. No fleas involved
> 
> AND, I wish I had all the wasted money on all the other so called solutions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you not vacuum the entire time and just leave it sit there?  I use the DE and leave it sit in the carpet for two days then vacuum to get up any eggs/larvae/fleas ... even ones that didn't die, then reapply another round of DE.
> 
> I read you can combine DE/baking soda/salt or Borax/baking soda/salt and it works very well.  Haven't done that yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Make sure you get the boraxo into the crack where the wall meets the floor and leave it alone for at least a couple of weeks. We left ours for several weeks and added to it  if we found spots where the powder was gone. No, its no fun having the powder all over your house but it works and its not poisoning your animals. Just leave it alone and let it do its work. Re-read the directions I wrote on page one and just leave the boraxo alone.
> 
> I wouldn't bother mixing stuff together. No need. OTOH, you seem to want to futz with this instead of just treating the problem. If you feel better mixing stuff together, I can't see how it would hurt.
> 
> By now, your vet probably has your animals on prednizone and antibiotics for their skin. I wrote about that earlier as well.
Click to expand...


Apparently mixing DE or Borax with baking soda and salt increases the rate in which the little buggers dry out and die. 

The only animal on prednisone is Shadow, our old cat who had a bad reaction to the FL or fleas.  Why do you assume that all the other animals are on prednisone and antibiotics?  Their skin is fine ... a bit dry from the DE, but fine.  

I am hoping that the two dogs and young cat do not have any adverse reactions to the Advantix II (dogs) and Advantage II (cats) when I apply it late next week and that it works.


----------



## syrenn

Zoom-boing said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you not vacuum the entire time and just leave it sit there?  I use the DE and leave it sit in the carpet for two days then vacuum to get up any eggs/larvae/fleas ... even ones that didn't die, then reapply another round of DE.
> 
> I read you can combine DE/baking soda/salt or Borax/baking soda/salt and it works very well.  Haven't done that yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Make sure you get the boraxo into the crack where the wall meets the floor and leave it alone for at least a couple of weeks. We left ours for several weeks and added to it  if we found spots where the powder was gone. No, its no fun having the powder all over your house but it works and its not poisoning your animals. Just leave it alone and let it do its work. Re-read the directions I wrote on page one and just leave the boraxo alone.
> 
> I wouldn't bother mixing stuff together. No need. OTOH, you seem to want to futz with this instead of just treating the problem. If you feel better mixing stuff together, I can't see how it would hurt.
> 
> By now, your vet probably has your animals on prednizone and antibiotics for their skin. I wrote about that earlier as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently mixing DE or Borax with baking soda and salt increases the rate in which the little buggers dry out and die.
> 
> The only animal on prednisone is Shadow, our old cat who had a bad reaction to the FL or fleas.  Why do you assume that all the other animals are on prednisone and antibiotics?  Their skin is fine ... a bit dry from the DE, but fine.
> 
> I am hoping that the two dogs and young cat do not have any adverse reactions to the Advantix II (dogs) and Advantage II (cats) when I apply it late next week and that it works.
Click to expand...


what did the vet say about everything you are doing?


----------



## Zoom-boing

PixieStix said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I realized fleas were in my carpet, I used baking soda once a week for 4 weeks, I also used it on the pets beds. The then washed the pets beds. The same day I started that process, I also treated all my pets with Revolution. Never saw another flea from that day forward. Wish I had known about it sooner. This was 4 years ago, and I will never go back
> 
> I still use baking soda occasionally, only for freshening purposes. No fleas involved
> 
> AND, I wish I had all the wasted money on all the other so called solutions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you not vacuum the entire time and just leave it sit there?  I use the DE and leave it sit in the carpet for two days then vacuum to get up any eggs/larvae/fleas ... even ones that didn't die, then reapply another round of DE.
> 
> I read you can combine DE/baking soda/salt or Borax/baking soda/salt and it works very well.  Haven't done that yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I left it sit for a half hour then vacuumed. The flea needs a host that has the PH that they need. They do not desire the ph that humans have. *So if you treat the pet with the ph level that fleas love, they will die out and the flea eggs will not hatch.*
> 
> Another tip, is that revolution makes a chewable tablet for dogs, and if you are putting it on with the liquid form, put a drop from the head down the spine all the way down to the base of the tail.
> 
> For cats, put it on the top of their head, because it is less likely that they lick it off
Click to expand...


Half hour?  I've been leaving the DE in the carpet for a couple of days before vacuuming.

The bolded ... do you mean if you treat the animal with the ph levels that fleas _hate_?  If you treat the pets with a ph level that the fleas love, the fleas will never leave!


----------



## Zoom-boing

syrenn said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Make sure you get the boraxo into the crack where the wall meets the floor and leave it alone for at least a couple of weeks. We left ours for several weeks and added to it  if we found spots where the powder was gone. No, its no fun having the powder all over your house but it works and its not poisoning your animals. Just leave it alone and let it do its work. Re-read the directions I wrote on page one and just leave the boraxo alone.
> 
> I wouldn't bother mixing stuff together. No need. OTOH, you seem to want to futz with this instead of just treating the problem. If you feel better mixing stuff together, I can't see how it would hurt.
> 
> By now, your vet probably has your animals on prednizone and antibiotics for their skin. I wrote about that earlier as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently mixing DE or Borax with baking soda and salt increases the rate in which the little buggers dry out and die.
> 
> The only animal on prednisone is Shadow, our old cat who had a bad reaction to the FL or fleas.  Why do you assume that all the other animals are on prednisone and antibiotics?  Their skin is fine ... a bit dry from the DE, but fine.
> 
> I am hoping that the two dogs and young cat do not have any adverse reactions to the Advantix II (dogs) and Advantage II (cats) when I apply it late next week and that it works.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what did the vet say about everything you are doing?
Click to expand...


Told her we had fleas, that we treated the house and pets w/products including DE, that the FL didn't do anything for three of them, told her I bought Advantix II (dogs) and Advantage II (cats) and double checked that I could re-apply it next week.  She said yes, three weeks was fine to reapply (another vet I phoned told us this as well). She said that the FL should be out of Shadow in three weeks (he got it 7/4 so that would mean next Thurs).  She mostly just listened and nodded and didn't offer any thing else as far as the fleas go.  <sigh>


----------



## Mr. H.

My dogs have bunions.


----------



## HUGGY

Might be over kill but here at the motel there were bed bugs, cocroaches and fleas when I was supposed to move in. Got completely rid of them in a few days and treatments. 

I used a commercial service for the rooms surrounding mine and then I bombed my living qtrs and used a "trick".  I spread a tarp over the bed, couch and all of the flooring(carpet) to confine the gas onto a much smaller yet concentrated area(cubic foot).  Then..I shampooed the carpet and left smaller tarps over the couch and bed for several weeks after the bombing so the critters and eggs got a much longer dose of the poison than usual.  My method was 100% effective and after three years there has been no unwanted insects or parasites.

The dogs( Angel and Dre, large pit bulls ) have full use of the couch and bed and still not a single bug.  

PS... I kept tarps over the couch for over a year so the chemicals dissipated safely over time. I still use a tarp on the bed and sleeping bags spead out under the sheets and covers to hide the texture of the plastic.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

> "We found the Frontline to be ineffective in stopping the fleas infestation but [Boraxo] got rid of every last flea more than a year ago." The way you wrote this sentence reads as if Frontline was ineffective in stopping fleas but we got rid of every last flea ... using Frontline.



You're right. The word that's missing is "Boraxo".


----------



## PixieStix

Zoom-boing said:


> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you not vacuum the entire time and just leave it sit there?  I use the DE and leave it sit in the carpet for two days then vacuum to get up any eggs/larvae/fleas ... even ones that didn't die, then reapply another round of DE.
> 
> I read you can combine DE/baking soda/salt or Borax/baking soda/salt and it works very well.  Haven't done that yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I left it sit for a half hour then vacuumed. The flea needs a host that has the PH that they need. They do not desire the ph that humans have. *So if you treat the pet with the ph level that fleas love, they will die out and the flea eggs will not hatch.*
> 
> Another tip, is that revolution makes a chewable tablet for dogs, and if you are putting it on with the liquid form, put a drop from the head down the spine all the way down to the base of the tail.
> 
> For cats, put it on the top of their head, because it is less likely that they lick it off
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Half hour?  I've been leaving the DE in the carpet for a couple of days before vacuuming.
> 
> The bolded ... do you mean if you treat the animal with the ph levels that fleas _hate_?  If you treat the pets with a ph level that the fleas love, the fleas will never leave!
Click to expand...


I worded that incorrectly. I meant that the fleas need and love feeding on the ph level of our pets. Not the ph level of humans. Sorry about the mis wording and lack of proper punctuation


----------



## Zoom-boing

Luddly Neddite said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did your dogs or cats ever lick the borax, even by mistake?  What if they lay on the carpet and the borax gets on their fur then they lick it?  Any problems with it?  During the time you used the borax for infestations, I thought you said you didn't use anything on your pets (other than the FL, which you said didn't do anything for the fleas).  Weren't your pets bit all the time?  I don't see how just treating the environment but not the pets themselves would result in successfully eliminating fleas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Earlier in this thread, I wrote that my granddaughter had eaten quite a large amount of Boraxo. I also wrote about my own, non-animal, testing. What I wrote earlier is that the toxicologist at Boraxo told me and poison control repeated, that it would take a couple of cups to cause any reaction and that reaction would be turning the stool green.
Click to expand...


I did read your response about your grand daughter.  But people and animals are not the same.  Did your pets ever lick/eat the borax and did it bother them in _any way_?

You said you just treated the environment but not your pets.  Weren't your pets bitten a lot until the problem was resolved ... which I believe you said was a few months?  Thanks.

Okay, just one more question.  You use FL for ticks for the cats but said it doesn't seem to do anything to the fleas.  Since you're using a topical treatment anyway, why wouldn't you switch to a different brand that would repel/kill fleas, as well as ticks?


----------



## dilloduck

ZB--ever thought about a new dog ? just saying,,,,,,,,,,,


----------



## Mr. H.

I hate it when a pet fleas the house.
Sometimes they don't come back for days.


----------



## PixieStix

You two


----------



## dilloduck

PixieStix said:


> You two



He started it


----------



## PixieStix

dilloduck said:


> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> 
> You two
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He started it
Click to expand...


----------



## PixieStix

If ZB would just take my advice and use Revolution this thread could have died long ago


----------



## dilloduck

PixieStix said:


> If ZB would just take my advice and use Revolution this thread could have died long ago



omg--you're one of THEM


----------



## PixieStix

dilloduck said:


> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> 
> If ZB would just take my advice and use Revolution this thread could have died long ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> omg--you're one of THEM
Click to expand...


A flea?


----------



## dilloduck

PixieStix said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> 
> If ZB would just take my advice and use Revolution this thread could have died long ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> omg--you're one of THEM
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A flea?
Click to expand...


a wannabe vet----


----------



## PixieStix

dilloduck said:


> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> omg--you're one of THEM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A flea?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> a wannabe vet----
Click to expand...


You betcha


----------



## Zoom-boing

dilloduck said:


> ZB--ever thought about a new dog ? just saying,,,,,,,,,,,



Wha??  And have even moar pets that will get teh fleas?


----------



## Luddly Neddite

PixieStix said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> 
> A flea?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a wannabe vet----
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You betcha
Click to expand...


pssst ... That's not a dog and they're not treating for fleas.

Just thought you'd wanna know.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Zoom-boing said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did your dogs or cats ever lick the borax, even by mistake?  What if they lay on the carpet and the borax gets on their fur then they lick it?  Any problems with it?  During the time you used the borax for infestations, I thought you said you didn't use anything on your pets (other than the FL, which you said didn't do anything for the fleas).  Weren't your pets bit all the time?  I don't see how just treating the environment but not the pets themselves would result in successfully eliminating fleas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Earlier in this thread, I wrote that my granddaughter had eaten quite a large amount of Boraxo. I also wrote about my own, non-animal, testing. What I wrote earlier is that the toxicologist at Boraxo told me and poison control repeated, that it would take a couple of cups to cause any reaction and that reaction would be turning the stool green.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did read your response about your grand daughter.  But people and animals are not the same.  Did your pets ever lick/eat the borax and did it bother them in _any way_? no
> 
> You said you just treated the environment but not your pets.  Weren't your pets bitten a lot until the problem was resolved yes, just as with your animals. ... which I believe you said was a few months?  We left the Borax down long after the animals were flea free because we wanted to make sure to get all the eggs and because our area was inundated with brown recluse spiders.Thanks.
> 
> Okay, just one more question.  You use FL for ticks for the cats but said it doesn't seem to do anything to the fleas. Now that we are free of the fleas, they are not our main concern. However, ticks are ubiquitous in this area. Since you're using a topical treatment anyway, why wouldn't you switch to a different brand that would repel/kill fleas, as well as ticks?On the advice of the vet and since the Borax got rid of the fleas, we chose the treatment that is supposed to be best for ticks.
Click to expand...


----------



## PixieStix

Luddly Neddite said:


> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> a wannabe vet----
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You betcha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> pssst ... That's not a dog and they're not treating for fleas.
> 
> Just thought you'd wanna know.
Click to expand...


That isn't a dog?


----------



## Zoom-boing

Luddly Neddite said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Earlier in this thread, I wrote that my granddaughter had eaten quite a large amount of Boraxo. I also wrote about my own, non-animal, testing. What I wrote earlier is that the toxicologist at Boraxo told me and poison control repeated, that it would take a couple of cups to cause any reaction and that reaction would be turning the stool green.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did read your response about your grand daughter.  But people and animals are not the same.  Did your pets ever lick/eat the borax and did it bother them in _any way_? no
> 
> You said you just treated the environment but not your pets. * Weren't your pets bitten a lot until the problem was resolved yes, just as with your animals. *... which I believe you said was a few months?  We left the Borax down long after the animals were flea free because we wanted to make sure to get all the eggs and because our area was inundated with brown recluse spiders.Thanks.
> 
> Okay, just one more question.  You use FL for ticks for the cats but said it doesn't seem to do anything to the fleas. Now that we are free of the fleas, they are not our main concern. However, ticks are ubiquitous in this area. Since you're using a topical treatment anyway, why wouldn't you switch to a different brand that would repel/kill fleas, as well as ticks?On the advice of the vet and since the Borax got rid of the fleas, we chose the treatment that is supposed to be best for ticks.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Ours are being bitten much, much less since they were treated. 

(not giving you a hard time saying ^, just letting you know is all.  )

Thanks again for all your info.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

PixieStix said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> 
> You betcha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pssst ... That's not a dog and they're not treating for fleas.
> 
> Just thought you'd wanna know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That isn't a dog?
Click to expand...


Maybe its a breed I'm not familiar with.


----------



## Zoom-boing

Making some good progress.

Penny doesn't seem to have any fleas on her, or they are just extremely good at hiding themselves and their evidence.  Could the FL have kicked in?  Don't know.  The VetKem did a great job on her though, glad I bought it.

Dio def has them.  Very, very hard to see evidence on him because he's mostly black and he wiggles ... a lot.  I can tell by the way he scratches and bites though ... fleas.

Both dogs got Advantix II this morning.  Hope this stuff works.

Shadow is still flea free and the prednisone is helping immensely with the ithcies.

Am seeing dead fleas here and there on the lighter floors, dead fleas in water dishes. 

Finn ... Finnick Odare, you cat you.  He is the flead one because the basement is a flea sanctuary, perfect flea conditions, and his bedroom.  Originally got 80+ off of him last week; 50+ off of him late last week; 30+ off of him yesterday.  Slowly but surely.  VetKem def killed off many of the buggers and provided growth inhibitor and will continue to do so; DE def killed some off and will continue to do so; FL did nothing for Finn as far as I can tell.  The VetKem helped but he needs a long-term treatment.  Thurs is the 3 week mark when I can apply Advantage to Finn.  Yeah, I'll apply it Wednesday.  Dogs had no adverse reaction, hopefully Finn won't either.  

Wanted to reinforce the DE down there by really brushing it into the carpet. Ah, no.  After doing one section it was just too, too much DE dust going on.  Switched to Borax (hey Luddly, I Boraxed!).  It's more granular, less powdery and it worked into the berber carpeting (wtf did we put berber carpeting down there for??) much better than the DE.  Entire finished part of the basement (two rooms) is done.  Will vacuum the traffic areas later tonight.  

Thank you everyone for your input, experience, and suggestions.  I have an arsenal of weapons now.  I _will _ win the battle and wipe them off the face of our premises and pets.


----------



## syrenn

dead fleas! 


here is a funny story.... we got a new foster a few weeks ago, one that ever made it into the shelter..... OMG i put it down on the white towel....and i had 3 fleas jump onto my arm... and off onto the towel!!  

everyone got advantage, everything went to the sani wash..... two days later there was a dead flea on the white towels....  

the comment made was.... oh look.. a good flea. 

 

what the hell was he thinking??? a good flea? 

the answer was.... yes, all dead fleas are good fleas!


----------



## THORAX

Hate dogs.


----------



## Mr. H.

My dogs have sport peppers. 
And mustard.
An' celery salt....


----------



## Zoom-boing

THORAX said:


> Hate dogs.



Why that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever hurd.


----------



## syrenn

THORAX said:


> Hate dogs.



yeah... but the fleas love them!


----------



## Claudette

Samson said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> So in the midst of all that happened the past six weeks (in addition to all the deaths, we had one month to get all my parents stuff out of their place, July 10 is the last day, plus I got very sick 6/21-6/27) the dogs never did get their flea med ... so we now have fleas!!  Damnit!!   Frontlined both dogs Tues, both cats Thurs, DE them daily, as well as the carpeting, sofas, dog bed.  Vacuuming daily (yeah, yeah I should do that anyway huh?).  Poor Penny, she has a super thick undercoat and was just gnawing away ... her skin in places is nearly bruised from chewing so much.  Put cortizone on those spots yesterday .... relief!  Got two fleas off of Dio (one yesterday), two fleas off of Shadow (old cat) yesterday.  How long before Frontline kills them all?  DE takes a few days as it dehydrates them.  I am concerned about any eggs that may be lurking.  This is all a first for us.  Cripes, like this is what we needed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Holy Crap! Fleas!
> 
> Well, been nice knowing you Zoom......the Black Plague cannot be far behind, and really offers the only certain relief.
> 
> I've included this helpful diagram for your benefit:
Click to expand...


Holy Hell Samson. Your a hoot. LMAO

I have my four kids on Trifexus. Its a HW/Flea combo and works great. 

Another thing that really works is Diatomgeous Earth. When used it dehydrates the fleas and they die. Our getemall feed store carries it but I don't know who else does.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Katzndogz said:


> I can't say that   Frontline or Advantage works.   It doesn't work on my dog or any dog I know.  Flea baths don't work.   Fleas hide.  They go in the eyes, in the anus and urethra.  The'll hide in a female's vagina and come out when it's safe.



Must be Republicans.


----------



## Zoom-boing

Luddly Neddite said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't say that   Frontline or Advantage works.   It doesn't work on my dog or any dog I know.  Flea baths don't work.   Fleas hide.  They go in the eyes, in the anus and urethra.  The'll hide in a female's vagina and come out when it's safe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Must be Republicans.
Click to expand...


What an asshole thing to say, Luddly.


----------



## Zoom-boing

Even better news!  Combed Finn yesterday.  Got four fleas off of him.  THEY WERE ALL DEAD!  The Advantage is working.  Dogs show no sign of fleas, so the Advantix is working.  Not getting any more bites on my ankles either.

Will VetKem the basement at the two week mark, continue w/the DE and vacuuming but I think it's nearly over.  Won't be confident that they are really all gone until a few weeks from now and we still don't see any.

Again, thanks everyone for your input!

eta:  The only place I'm finding any fleas is in the basement.  One or two in the water dish and three or four that hang by the night light.  Teeny, tiny fleas.  The ones on the wall I just squish ... they don't seem very jumpy.  Just furminated Dio's whole rear part (legs, rump, base of tail). Got nothing .. no fleas, no flea dirt.  Just a whole bunch of under-coat fur.


----------



## syrenn

so how is everything now?


----------



## Zoom-boing

syrenn said:


> so how is everything now?



Well, getting down to a dull roar.  I don't know when I'll really feel like there aren't any hiding somewhere, lurking.  January?  lol

A few days ago, Shadow was on my daughter's lap.  He left and there, on her shirt, was a flea.    Shadow didn't have fleas (the FL seems to have worked on him some, but that was a month ago he got it and he also self-exhiled into my daughter's room for several weeks until he felt better, away from everything, which helped) but once all the other animals got the spot-on treatments the fleas found Shadow.  It took all of three seconds for me to give him Advantage and the fleas starting dying off of him within the hour.  He didn't not have any adverse reaction to it so all the animals will be getting the spot-on treatments. Daughter VetKemed her bedroom.

Haven't resprayed the VetKem yet (haven't been home to do it, it was just two weeks yesterday).  Am not finding any more tiny dead fleas in the basement, the animals are not scratching, aside from normal stuff. 

Am still vacuuming but not as fanatically, still using the DE on the furniture/carpets.  Am under the impression that if the animals are inhospitable to fleas (fleas are repelled, any fleas that get on them die, any eggs that get laid do not mature) that the fleas will die off on their own, even if the house (which is treated) is not _constantly_ being cleaned/treated, etc.  Hope that's correct.  I am going to re-VetKem tne family room, basement and our bedroom (that's where the animals are the most), today.  To do the rest of the house I need to order more.  Think I should?


----------



## syrenn

Zoom-boing said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> so how is everything now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, getting down to a dull roar.  I don't know when I'll really feel like there aren't any hiding somewhere, lurking.  January?  lol
> 
> A few days ago, Shadow was on my daughter's lap.  He left and there, on her shirt, was a flea.    Shadow didn't have fleas (the FL seems to have worked on him some, but that was a month ago he got it and he also self-exhiled into my daughter's room for several weeks until he felt better, away from everything, which helped) but once all the other animals got the spot-on treatments the fleas found Shadow.  It took all of three seconds for me to give him Advantage and the fleas starting dying off of him within the hour.  He didn't not have any adverse reaction to it so all the animals will be getting the spot-on treatments. Daughter VetKemed her bedroom.
> 
> Haven't resprayed the VetKem yet (haven't been home to do it, it was just two weeks yesterday).  Am not finding any more tiny dead fleas in the basement, the animals are not scratching, aside from normal stuff.
> 
> Am still vacuuming but not as fanatically, still using the DE on the furniture/carpets.  Am under the impression that if the animals are inhospitable to fleas (fleas are repelled, any fleas that get on them die, any eggs that get laid do not mature) that the fleas will die off on their own, even if the house (which is treated) is not _constantly_ being cleaned/treated, etc.  Hope that's correct.  I am going to re-VetKem tne family room, basement and our bedroom (that's where the animals are the most), today.  To do the rest of the house I need to order more.  Think I should?
Click to expand...



poor shadow. Is he doing better on the drugs? 

I prefer advantage to all of the others..... i like the instant kill.  You never did your daughters room with the first round of vetkem? 

yeah, i would order a lot more. that way you can finish off what you need to do and a have another round ready to go if you need it.


----------



## Zoom-boing

syrenn said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> so how is everything now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, getting down to a dull roar.  I don't know when I'll really feel like there aren't any hiding somewhere, lurking.  January?  lol
> 
> A few days ago, Shadow was on my daughter's lap.  He left and there, on her shirt, was a flea.    Shadow didn't have fleas (the FL seems to have worked on him some, but that was a month ago he got it and he also self-exhiled into my daughter's room for several weeks until he felt better, away from everything, which helped) but once all the other animals got the spot-on treatments the fleas found Shadow.  It took all of three seconds for me to give him Advantage and the fleas starting dying off of him within the hour.  He didn't not have any adverse reaction to it so all the animals will be getting the spot-on treatments. Daughter VetKemed her bedroom.
> 
> Haven't resprayed the VetKem yet (haven't been home to do it, it was just two weeks yesterday).  Am not finding any more tiny dead fleas in the basement, the animals are not scratching, aside from normal stuff.
> 
> Am still vacuuming but not as fanatically, still using the DE on the furniture/carpets.  Am under the impression that if the animals are inhospitable to fleas (fleas are repelled, any fleas that get on them die, any eggs that get laid do not mature) that the fleas will die off on their own, even if the house (which is treated) is not _constantly_ being cleaned/treated, etc.  Hope that's correct.  I am going to re-VetKem tne family room, basement and our bedroom (that's where the animals are the most), today.  To do the rest of the house I need to order more.  Think I should?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> poor shadow. Is he doing better on the drugs?
> 
> I prefer advantage to all of the others..... i like the instant kill.  You never did your daughters room with the first round of vetkem?
> 
> yeah, i would order a lot more. that way you can finish off what you need to do and a have another round ready to go if you need it.
Click to expand...


No, she cleaned it and used DE.  She didn't do a good job and I'm ready to kill her.  She did VetKem it when we found the fleas on Shadow the other day but she never pulled her sheets and blankets.  I haven't been home all week, getting home around 8 or 9pm (we're in the process of settling my parents estate), so I don't know how well she's doing all of this. Obviously not well.  I am going to kill her.  

Just answered my own question ... just combed Finn and got like 15 fleas off of him!  I thought the Advantage was suppose to continuously kill them ?????

I feel like I"m starting all over again now!

I combed him a week ago and found nothing.  Maybe because I didn't give Shadow anything until a few days ago?  Did they just jump from the newly treated Shadow to Finn?  I combed Dio for about 1/2 hour a week ago and found nothing ... I comb Penny and look for any signs on her and find nothing ... are they there anyway??

Would these fleas I just found die on their own from the Advantage that's on them?  That's how I thought it worked.  Everything I used (except for the borax and DE) is suppose to render the eggs/larvae incapable of maturing into a flea.  So why are there still fleas??

Aggggghhhhh.


----------



## Zoom-boing

syrenn --- do you use the VetKem premise spray (that's what I used) or the carpet spray?  Not sure what the difference is, perhaps the carpet spray (which is also used on furniture) is a bit heavier and settles into the carpet better than the premise spray?

Nevermind, just re-read the info on their website.  The carpet spray doesn't say it has the precor growth inhibitor, the premise spray does.


----------



## syrenn

Zoom-boing said:


> syrenn --- do you use the VetKem premise spray (that's what I used) or the carpet spray?  Not sure what the difference is, perhaps the carpet spray (which is also used on furniture) is a bit heavier and settles into the carpet better than the premise spray?



we use the carpet spray.... and truthfully i don't know what the difference in formulation is. 

my guess is the new fleas are coming from your daughters room  

when you catch the fleas off the dogs..... put them i an ziploc bag and see if they die... 

brushing them to disperse the advantage may help..... I would also use more of the vetkem for pets on them too....


----------



## Zoom-boing

The VetKem says to reapply at the two week mark (which is where we are) to get all the pupa fleas that have emerged over the past two weeks.  

Hopefully that's the fleas we're seeing now.

Obviously I should have given Shadow the Advantage a week ago when I gave it to the other animals.   I was really concerned that he would react and get even more itchy from it so I didn't.  Damn it. 

I still don't understand how any fleas are even on the animals that were treated a week ago.


----------



## Zoom-boing

syrenn said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn --- do you use the VetKem premise spray (that's what I used) or the carpet spray?  Not sure what the difference is, perhaps the carpet spray (which is also used on furniture) is a bit heavier and settles into the carpet better than the premise spray?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we use the carpet spray.... and truthfully i don't know what the difference in formulation is.
> 
> my guess is the new fleas are coming from your daughters room
> 
> when you catch the fleas off the dogs..... put them i an ziploc bag and see if they die...
> 
> brushing them to disperse the advantage may help..... I would also use more of the vetkem for pets on them too....
Click to expand...


I edited my other post.... I just re-read the VetKem page and the carpet spray doesn't seem to have the IGR growth regulator in it, I'm ordering the premise spray.

Yup, going to give them all the spray as well.  

I am beyond frustrated.  I wasn't here a lot and let up on the vacuuming after house and animal treatment.  Stupid, stupid, stupid.

The fleas I just got off of Finn I put in water w/some dish soap.  Most of them were not very active, they died almost right away.  A few were very active in their dying process ... like how they were before the animals were treated.


----------



## syrenn

Zoom-boing said:


> The VetKem says to reapply at the two week mark (which is where we are) to get all the pupa fleas that have emerged over the past two weeks.
> 
> Hopefully that's the fleas we're seeing now.
> 
> Obviously I should have given Shadow the Advantage a week ago when I gave it to the other animals.   I was really concerned that he would react and get even more itchy from it so I didn't.  Damn it.
> 
> I still don't understand how any fleas are even on the animals that were treated a week ago.





it will get better zoom.... really it will. Vetkem again.... really well, and inside your daughters room.... and then in her room again in two weeks. Be to get under her bed and dressers and inside the closet.


----------



## Zoom-boing

Just spent a solid 45 minutes going over Dio (dog).  I did not see any fleas or flea dirt.  I searched and searched, combed, parted his fur, etc.  Nothing.

Finn sleeps in the basement, which I sprayed heavily AND boraxed the hell out of.  You'd think there wouldn't be any fleas left.  Damn it.  

Well, just going to have to keep at it.  Oldest s/be home any minute.  She is kicking the cat out and doing her room.

eta:  I bet she didn't do her closet.  An extra cat box is in there.


----------



## Zoom-boing

Oldest re-did her room, vacuumed, washed all bedding, VetKemed again.

One of the fleas I combed out of Finn and put in a ziploc plastic baggie yesterday is still alive today.  Makes me think the Advantage is not working the way it should on him, although as far as I can tell it is working on the dogs.  Def worked on Shadow but don't know if it is continuing or not,  he will not let us comb him.  Daughter is looking for fleas/dirt where he sleeps, found a couple of dead fleas this morning.  When I first put it on Finn we saw the fleas dying off.  It's been close to two weeks since his application, another two before it says I can reapply.  So I ordered 2 boxes of Capstar off of Amazon, it will be here Tuesday.  Will dose him every three or four days.  I combed him today and got a couple of fleas, he is getting annoyed at me though and I don't feel like I'm doing a good enough job.  

Re VetKemed the basement where he sleeps, the front half, and steps.  Used up everything I had left.  The manual pump spray smells different from the aerosol .. it stinks, don't like it.  Did find four million-leggers dead along the baseboard.  The stuff works.  Once that's completely dry I will re-Borax the basement.  Again, what possessed us to get Berber carpeting down there is beyond me.  It's got too many loopy loops and makes it a great place for fleas to burrow into.  If this round of everything doesn't do it I may just rip up the carpeting.  It's beat, I don't like it, it's already half ruined from flooding a few years ago and also from Shadow.   

DE'd the living daylights out of the living room and just left it there.  Will do the same to the family room and remaining three bedrooms.  Hadn't VetKemed the two bedrooms because the doors are constantly shut and the animals don't go in there, but Finn did a few times last week when I was cleaning.  I thought it was ok because he'd had the Advantage.  Will VetKem all rooms when it gets here next week.  In the meantime, DE.


----------



## PixieStix

Flea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In arid areas, less than 5% of flea eggs complete the life-cycle.[24] Because Humidity is critical to flea survival, Eggs need relative humidity of at least 7075% to hatch, and larvae need at least 50% humidity to survive. In humid areas, about 20% of the eggs survive to adulthood.

Lower temperatures slow down or completely interrupt the flea life-cycle. Fleas thrive at higher temperatures, but need 70° to 90°F (21° to 32°C) to survive.

Homemade flea traps work well to catch fleas in the dark. Place a desk lamp over a white bowl of dish soap water overnight. The fleas, attracted to the bright warm light, jump into the soapy water and immediately drown.

A combination of controlled humidity, temperature, and vacuumingshould eliminate fleas from an environment. Altering even one of these environmental factors may be enough to drastically lower and eliminate an infestation.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Jeeez.

Just put down the friggin borax and leave it alone.


----------



## Zoom-boing

Luddly Neddite said:


> Jeeez.
> 
> Just put down the friggin borax and leave it alone.



I did. I boraxed the hell out of the basement and pulled 20+ fleas off the cat after it was down for two weeks.  This was after we used Advantage on him.  Too many fleas, will continue using everything.


----------



## Zoom-boing

PixieStix said:


> Flea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> In arid areas, less than 5% of flea eggs complete the life-cycle.[24] Because Humidity is critical to flea survival, Eggs need relative humidity of at least 7075% to hatch, and larvae need at least 50% humidity to survive. In humid areas, about 20% of the eggs survive to adulthood.
> 
> Lower temperatures slow down or completely interrupt the flea life-cycle. Fleas thrive at higher temperatures, but need 70° to 90°F (21° to 32°C) to survive.
> 
> Homemade flea traps work well to catch fleas in the dark. Place a desk lamp over a white bowl of dish soap water overnight. The fleas, attracted to the bright warm light, jump into the soapy water and immediately drown.
> 
> A combination of controlled humidity, temperature, and vacuumingshould eliminate fleas from an environment. Altering even one of these environmental factors may be enough to drastically lower and eliminate an infestation.



Yeah, using the de-humidifier too.  A/C is on as well. Thx, Pixie!


----------



## Luddly Neddite

And, about humidity - that's why fleas are such a huge problem in Tucson. The humidity. 

As I said before, because of the high rain fall, the Sonora Desert is a "semi-tropical desert". There are five seasons instead of four. The wet summer after the dry summer gives the fleas and ticks the tine they need to get a hold on. 

I used to maintain a small water hole outside my kitchen window and watched just about every critter you can name. With binoculars, we could see enormous fat ticks on the ears of jackrabbits. 

BTW, the humidity is also why you can't expect to be rid of ticks or fleas in just a short time. The eggs are in your carpet and in dark nooks and crannies, as they say. 

And, that's why treating your animals doesn't make a lick of difference and only causes skin problems.  Even though you don't know it or believe it, letting the few fleas stay on your animals is easier on their skin than all the stuff you've put on them. 

People want insteant gratification. They want to see the (&*^$% bugs dead on the floor so they put the poison in the air they breathe, the furniture they sit and sleep on and on their poor animals. 

Your animals will probably survive the continued assault and you will have contributed to a stronger and healthier strain of fleas.


----------



## DarkLion

Zoom-boing said:


> I did. I boraxed the hell out of the basement and pulled 20+ fleas off the cat after it was down for two weeks.  This was after we used Advantage on him.  Too many fleas, will continue using everything.



You can get rid of fleas inside the home completely, but unless you get rid of them in your yard they'll just keep coming back. 

Expose moist areas to sunlight to kill the larvae, and put down either cedar chips or Eucalyptus leaves. 

4 Ways to Get Rid of Fleas - wikiHow


----------



## Zoom-boing

Luddly Neddite said:


> And, about humidity - that's why fleas are such a huge problem in Tucson. The humidity.
> 
> As I said before, because of the high rain fall, the Sonora Desert is a "semi-tropical desert". There are five seasons instead of four. The wet summer after the dry summer gives the fleas and ticks the tine they need to get a hold on.
> 
> I used to maintain a small water hole outside my kitchen window and watched just about every critter you can name. With binoculars, we could see enormous fat ticks on the ears of jackrabbits.
> 
> BTW, the humidity is also why you can't expect to be rid of ticks or fleas in just a short time. The eggs are in your carpet and in dark nooks and crannies, as they say.
> 
> And, that's why treating your animals doesn't make a lick of difference and only causes skin problems.  Even though you don't know it or believe it, letting the few fleas stay on your animals is easier on their skin than all the stuff you've put on them.
> 
> People want insteant gratification. They want to see the (&*^$% bugs dead on the floor so they put the poison in the air they breathe, the furniture they sit and sleep on and on their poor animals.
> 
> Your animals will probably survive the continued assault and you will have contributed to a stronger and healthier strain of fleas.



Only treating the environment leaves the fleas free to continue to eat/mate/breed, which causes for a longer period of time that they are around and causes unnecessary stress/discomfort for the animals.   The two dogs are flea free because of the Advantix; the older cat is getting there; working on the younger cat. But you think it'd be better if they were scratching and ripping their fur out like they were just a few weeks ago? And the one cat who reacted to the FL ... suppose it wasn't that but was actually the fleas that caused his reaction?  Just let him suffer through, eh?  I find it interesting that you're preaching about putting 'stuff' on the animals and yet you use 'stuff' on your animals.  Oh, that's different.  Somehow.  It just is.  

I'm not looking for instant anything.  I didn't expect them to be gone overnight, I figured it would take a bit.  What I was surprised at yesterday was the number of fleas on the one cat, even after being given Advantage.  It works ... it's working on the other pets ... I thought it would work as well on Finn.  Perhaps it is and it's because he sleeps in the basement that's why there were so many on him because, as I have said numerous times, it's a perfect environment for fleas... which is why I'm using the VetKem and borax.  

Why are you arguing with me over this?  You and I obviously have differing povs on how to get rid of fleas.  While I appreciate your advice, you can stop chirping about how, in your opinion, I'm doing it wrong.


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## syrenn

it did not work on the cat becasue the room the cat took refuge in was not treated with the vetkem  

it should get better now.


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## Zoom-boing

syrenn said:


> it did not work on the cat becasue the room the cat took refuge in was not treated with the vetkem
> 
> it should get better now.



No, Finn (the younger cat) sleeps in the basement and I VK two weeks ago and again yesterday. Also used borax (need to redo that since I vacuumed).  He was given Advantage II a week and a half ago.  It worked ... we saw the fleas dying off him ... but yesterday I combed him and found the 20+ fleas.  I wasn't home a lot this past week, vacuuming fell off as did the de-humidifier.  

Shadow (grumpy old cat) sleeps in my daughters room, which originally wasn't treated w/VK.  It was cleaned and only DE.  That has now been done -- everything washed, vacuumed, VK - and he's been given Advantage II a week ago.  He refuses to let me comb him so we're looking for signs.  We've seen dead fleas from where's he's been sitting or lying.


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## syrenn

how is progress?


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## Zoom-boing

Treated the house again today.  Still have to do the kitchen area rug, dining room area rug (they will have to wait till tomorrow) and daughter's room where Shadow sleeps (she just did it last week so I will wait a bit for that).  Other two kid's room the animals don't really go in, their doors are closed all the time but I am going to borax the rugs heavily tomorrow and leave it down ... just in case. Might spray too.  Used up nearly everything I ordered though, so I'll wait and see what I have after the other things are done. The rest of the house is done, and done heavily.  Hoping this is the last time.

Penny shows no signs of fleas.
Dio has been itchy some, found a few small ones on him yesterday.
Finn has been getting combed, found one flea on him yesterday.
Shadow does not let us comb him, watching for signs.  

Capstarred Penny, Dio and Finn today before doing the house.   Figured kill as many at one shot.  The numbers are _greatly _diminished.  Talked to vet again today and asked about giving them the Advantix/Advantage II at the three week mark, rather than the four week mark, since we're seeing fleas on two of them.  She said that was fine for this month.  Will reapply next Monday. Both dogs got a bath this past Tuesday, so might wait until next Tuesday to reapply to give the oils a good chance to build back up.

The weather was very nice and not too humid for about a week but yesterday the humidity starting building again and today it is like pea soup.  Humidifier has been running non stop but last week it got down to running off and on at the 40% humidity level.  Dry those suckers out.

Vet said it will take 3 months on the spot-on treatment before they are all gone; it just takes time.  It's getting better bit by bit.  Dang, fleas are a pain in the ass.  What purpose do they even serve?  None that I can think of.


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## koshergrl

You have to do the whole house at once. Doing this room and that room and this pet and that pet won't get it.

When we had the infestation from hell, I bombed the crap out of my house, and left it for some weeks...(we went somewhere, don't remember where) then came in and bombed it again..and left again. By then the outside infestation was relenting, and we finally got rid of them in the house.

That was a nightmare. I didn't have carpets. I was obsessively vacuuming and mopping and sucking grunge and hair out of every corner and crevasse in the house...and bombing and spraying and emptying out my vacuum cleaner and doing it again..and again..and again. Finally after just being completely unrelenting (and always doing the entire house) we got rid of them.

I never want to go through that again. Fleas carry tapeworms. Yuck.


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## Zoom-boing

Well, it's been a week since I treated the house, five days since I treated 3 of the 4 animals.  So far, no sign of fleas.  I bought a new vacuum (that is suckier) to get as much up out of the carpet as possible, anything that might still be living.  After spraying, I boraxed under the bigger pieces of furniture ... sofas, beds, dressers ... as an additional step.  DE in the litterboxes and on Finn's blanket he sleeps on (washed and dried that thing so many times too!).  Ran the dehumidifier like crazy in the basement to pull out as much moisture as possible.  The weather broke a few days ago, quite lovely ... no heat, no humidity, nice breeze.  Windows open.  See no signs of fleas on the animals, although Dio still scratches.  Of course, he's an itchier dog anyway (always finding bits of mulch and butterfly bush in him lol) but I'm randomly combing him and coming up with no fleas.  Hoping this did the trick and that they are gone.  I still expect some to hatch from the pupa stage but time will tell.  Will continue with vacuuming and looking for any signs and also with the monthly flea treatments.  Will likely do the cats for two more months ... or should I just treat them year round?  They don't go out at all and I've never treated them before, only the dogs, and never had a problem.  Hmmm.  Looked up prices for the K9 Advantix and Advantage II for cats on PetMeds ... way cheaper.  I like to support local but there is a _significant_ price difference between what Petco charges and what PetMeds charge.   For what I pay for a four month supply for the dogs I can get a six month supply and the cats treatment is $30 cheaper from PM than Petco.  Free shipping.


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## syrenn

since this is your first time ever having fleas...i would not treat your indoor cats year round.... but only when you start to see them again. It is a poison after all, and using it unnecessarily is to much in my opinion.  I would keep up on a year round basis for your outdoor dogs.


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## Zoom-boing

syrenn said:


> since this is your first time ever having fleas...i would not treat your indoor cats year round.... but only when you start to see them again. It is a poison after all, and using it unnecessarily is to much in my opinion.  I would keep up on a year round basis for your outdoor dogs.



That's what I was thinking.  I will go two more months for them -- just in case a latent pupa pops -- and that will bring me to November, then I'll stop.  Dogs, not sure if I'll do year round or maybe give them a two or three month break in the dead of winter then start back up again in the beginning of March.  That's what we used to do and never had a problem.  Not putting it on them at all is what caused them to get fleas in the first place.  An ounce of prevention is def worth a pound of cure!!

Thx again for the VetKem info and the spraying heavily tip, s.  If you're going to spray, _spray_.  Just do it and get rid of them.


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## QuickHitCurepon

It used to be a flea collar and now Frontline does the trick. But if you don't have a carpet, fleas aren't bad. We never had more than 2 dogs and had dogs 33 years, and I have always kept track of them. 

Just pinch 'em and rub tummy.


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## Zoom-boing

QuickHitCurepon said:


> It used to be a flea collar and now Frontline does the trick. But if you don't have a carpet, fleas aren't bad. We never had more than 2 dogs and had dogs 33 years, and I have always kept track of them.
> 
> Just pinch 'em and rub tummy.



I used to use it all the time as a preventative and the dogs never got fleas but once they actually got fleas, Frontline didn't do squat.  We've switched over to the Advantage and Advantix and it took care of the problem on the animals.

It took six weeks to rid our pets and house of fleas using a spot flea treatment that works, spraying the house with a product that works, and vacuuming like hell everyday.  Ended up buying a new vacuum in the midst of it all and I swear that helped loads.  It sucked more!  

It's easier to prevent than to treat/get rid of fleas.  Dose your pets if you are in a flea prone area.


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## QuickHitCurepon

Zoom-boing said:


> QuickHitCurepon said:
> 
> 
> 
> It used to be a flea collar and now Frontline does the trick. But if you don't have a carpet, fleas aren't bad. We never had more than 2 dogs and had dogs 33 years, and I have always kept track of them.
> 
> Just pinch 'em and rub tummy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used to use it all the time as a preventative and the dogs never got fleas but once they actually got fleas, Frontline didn't do squat.  We've switched over to the Advantage and Advantix and it took care of the problem on the animals.
> 
> It took six weeks to rid our pets and house of fleas using a spot flea treatment that works, spraying the house with a product that works, and vacuuming like hell everyday.  Ended up buying a new vacuum in the midst of it all and I swear that helped loads.  It sucked more!
> 
> It's easier to prevent than to treat/get rid of fleas.  Dose your pets if you are in a flea prone area.
Click to expand...


Of course, if you let them build up. But yes, prevention is indeed the key. Maybe, I was just lucky not to ever have a problem with them. I remember that only once in the 70s we needed a bomb once or twice. 

I trust Frontline and haven't tried Advantix. We started off with my dog now Muffin giving her pills for the fleas from the vet, since I have a chemical sensitivity, but after trying Frontline a long time, I'm ok, and everybody's happy. 

If members of you household have bites, they can also be from spiders. For me, I'd let it go at least some weeks and ignore the fleas before doing something.


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