# Another Myth



## Unkotare (Jun 18, 2016)

I frequently encounter the false conception that children are better at learning a second (or 3rd, or 4th, etc.) language than adults. Leaving aside first language acquisition (including symmetrical bilingualism), children are very frequently more _successful_ in acquiring a second language in the long run, but adults are in many ways far more skilled language learners. Maybe that will seem like splitting hairs, but the point remains.


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## SeniorChief_Polock (Jun 18, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> I frequently encounter the false conception that children are better at learning a second (or 3rd, or 4th, etc.) language than adults. Leaving aside first language acquisition (including symmetrical bilingualism), children are very frequently more _successful_ in acquiring a second language in the long run, but adults are in many ways far more skilled language learners. Maybe that will seem like splitting hairs, but the point remains.



The only point that remains is you're an idiot.


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## Unkotare (Jun 19, 2016)

Big Chief Buttlove must have gotten lost again.


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## Unkotare (Jun 19, 2016)

It's sad to hear people convince themselves that if they are a day over the critical period they 'cannot' learn another language.


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## DGS49 (Jun 23, 2016)

I used to work for a company based in Luxembourg, where virtually everyone is forced to learn four languages in school.  The company had an extensive training program for people who needed to learn additional languages for foreign service.  Several years ago they stopped offering the language programs to people over 40.  Such people were, in their opinion, not teachable.

I don't feel unteachable, but maybe I am.


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## Unkotare (Jun 23, 2016)

DGS49 said:


> I used to work for a company based in Luxembourg, where virtually everyone is forced to learn four languages in school.  The company had an extensive training program for people who needed to learn additional languages for foreign service.  Several years ago they stopped offering the language programs to people over 40.  Such people were, in their opinion, not teachable.




They were quite wrong.


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## DGS49 (Jun 27, 2016)

Their conclusion was based on attempts to teach languages to a fairly substantial number of intelligent, linquistic, adult employees (probably 30-50 over several years), most of whom already spoke several languages.  A good friend of mine (from Luxembourg) speaks Lux, French, German, and English, then married a Mexican woman when he was in his 50's, and has been totally unable to master even conversational Spanish, despite 5 years of moderate effort.

Your conclusion to the contrary is based on...?


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## Unkotare (Jun 27, 2016)

DGS49 said:


> Their conclusion was based on attempts to teach languages to a fairly substantial number of intelligent, linquistic, adult employees (probably 30-50 over several years), most of whom already spoke several languages.  A good friend of mine (from Luxembourg) speaks Lux, French, German, and English, then married a Mexican woman when he was in his 50's, and has been totally unable to master even conversational Spanish, despite 5 years of moderate effort.
> 
> Your conclusion to the contrary is based on...?









A masters degree in Linguistics and 22 years of teaching students of all ages.


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## Unkotare (Jun 27, 2016)

DGS49 said:


> ...... then married a Mexican woman when he was in his 50's, and has been totally unable to master even conversational Spanish, despite 5 years of moderate effort......




BS has been called. That would not be moderate effort, it would be zero.


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## DGS49 (Jul 1, 2016)

If you are being truthful, then your observations have merit.  But in this forum, one never knows.


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## Unkotare (Jul 1, 2016)

DGS49 said:


> If you are being truthful, then your observations have merit.  ....



Always


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## Unkotare (Jul 17, 2016)

.


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## squeeze berry (Jul 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> .




this is your most intelligent post ever. Keep up the good work.


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## Unkotare (Jul 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> I frequently encounter the false conception that children are better at learning a second (or 3rd, or 4th, etc.) language than adults. Leaving aside first language acquisition (including symmetrical bilingualism), children are very frequently more _successful_ in acquiring a second language in the long run, but adults are in many ways far more skilled language learners. Maybe that will seem like splitting hairs, but the point remains.


.


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## hauke (Aug 10, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> I frequently encounter the false conception that children are better at learning a second (or 3rd, or 4th, etc.) language than adults. Leaving aside first language acquisition (including symmetrical bilingualism), children are very frequently more _successful_ in acquiring a second language in the long run, but adults are in many ways far more skilled language learners. Maybe that will seem like splitting hairs, but the point remains.


read up on sientific studys.

short : the linguistic center in the brains of children are variable enabling them to learn multiple languages equaly.

adult that is finished human brains do not have this quality anymore

in general children are better at learning language then adults


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## hauke (Aug 10, 2016)

from my personal experience, i lived in the philipines and spoke more english from the age of 11 to 15, i still dream in english sometimes and i can think some  ideas better in english then in german


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## PK1 (Aug 10, 2016)

hauke said:


> Unkotare said:
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> > I frequently encounter the false conception that children are better at learning a second (or 3rd, or 4th, etc.) language than adults. Leaving aside first language acquisition (including symmetrical bilingualism), children are very frequently more _successful_ in acquiring a second language in the long run, but adults are in many ways far more skilled language learners. Maybe that will seem like splitting hairs, but the point remains.
> ...


Do you have a link/reference?
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## Unkotare (Aug 10, 2016)

hauke said:


> Unkotare said:
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> > I frequently encounter the false conception that children are better at learning a second (or 3rd, or 4th, etc.) language than adults. Leaving aside first language acquisition (including symmetrical bilingualism), children are very frequently more _successful_ in acquiring a second language in the long run, but adults are in many ways far more skilled language learners. Maybe that will seem like splitting hairs, but the point remains.
> ...






You misunderstand


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## Unkotare (Oct 9, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> I frequently encounter the false conception that children are better at learning a second (or 3rd, or 4th, etc.) language than adults. Leaving aside first language acquisition (including symmetrical bilingualism), children are very frequently more _successful_ in acquiring a second language in the long run, but adults are in many ways far more skilled language learners. Maybe that will seem like splitting hairs, but the point remains.


..


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## Unkotare (Oct 25, 2016)

.


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## ding (Oct 26, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> DGS49 said:
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> > ...... then married a Mexican woman when he was in his 50's, and has been totally unable to master even conversational Spanish, despite 5 years of moderate effort......
> ...


Learning language is part of a child's brain chemistry. They are literally built to absorb information.


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## Unkotare (Oct 26, 2016)

ding said:


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And?


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## ding (Oct 26, 2016)

And you are wrong.


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## Unkotare (Oct 26, 2016)

ding said:


> And you are wrong.




Not at all. Your non-sequitur post suggests nothing of the sort.


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## ding (Oct 26, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ding said:
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Young children learn in an unconscious state of mind. They are learning and don’t even know it. Adults and older children, on the other hand, have to consciously learn the information.  Why?  Because learning language is part of a young child's brain chemistry. They are literally built to absorb information.  That is why you are wrong.  Nothing non-sequitur about that.


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## Unkotare (Oct 27, 2016)

ding said:


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You speak in generalizations, seemingly because you don't know enough to do anything else. Read the OP and try again.


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## ding (Oct 27, 2016)

Unkotare said:


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No.  I'm not speaking in generalizations, and you don't know anything about me.  The fact of the matter is that learning language is part of a child's brain chemistry. They are literally built to absorb information.  That is extremely specific and it applies to all young children.  There is nothing generalized about an ability that every human being is born with.


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## esthermoon (Oct 27, 2016)

I think we all have our limits. Some people are talented at math, for example, others are hopeless!
Same thing is for everything. I know an old guy. He's Thai and he went here 40 years ago. He lived and worked here since then but he can't speak proper Vietnamese.
I think he's not gifted at all at learning languages. 
That doesn't mean he's stupid! He just has his limits like everybody else!


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## Unkotare (Oct 27, 2016)

ding said:


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All you are doing is generalizing. You are just saying that children grow and develop. Gee, thanks for the insight.




Read the OP.


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## ding (Oct 27, 2016)

Unkotare said:


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No.  That's not what I wrote.  You are wrong.  I wrote, "Learning language is part of a child's brain chemistry. They are literally built to absorb information. Young children learn in an unconscious state of mind. They are learning and don’t even know it. Adults and older children, on the other hand, have to consciously learn the information."  And that is why young children are better at learning languages than adults or older children. You are wrong.


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## rightwinger (Oct 27, 2016)

Americans already speak the right language. They have  no need to learn another



.


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## Unkotare (Oct 27, 2016)

ding said:


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You still haven't read the OP.


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## Unkotare (Oct 27, 2016)

rightwinger said:


> Americans already speak the right language. They have  no need to learn another
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Funny


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## rightwinger (Oct 27, 2016)

Unkotare said:


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It is true
There is no need for Americans to speak another language

Overwhelmingly, people who speak more than one language have English as the other language. Even thay know they didn't get it right the first time


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## Unkotare (Oct 27, 2016)

rightwinger said:


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I get the bit, but it's a bit too categorical.


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## ding (Oct 27, 2016)

Unkotare said:


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Sure I did. I'm not talking about 1st language acquisition and you didn't think I was either.  Because if you had that would have been your first response.


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## rightwinger (Oct 27, 2016)

Unkotare said:


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As an American, when I go abroad, I make them speak English


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## Unkotare (Oct 27, 2016)

ding said:


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You apparently do not understand the topic at all.


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## Unkotare (Oct 27, 2016)

rightwinger said:


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Eh, kinda funny but trying too hard...


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## ding (Oct 27, 2016)

Unkotare said:


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You believe that it is a myth that it is easier for children to learn a second language than it is an adult.   I don't.  I believe that it is easier for a young child to learn a second language because learning language is part of a child's brain chemistry and because they are literally built to absorb information.  It's not that hard to understand.  Please explain to me what it is that you believe I don't understand.


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## Unkotare (Oct 27, 2016)

ding said:


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Read the OP.


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## ding (Oct 27, 2016)

Unkotare said:


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I did. I read all of your condescending comments.  Tell me what I got wrong.


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## Unkotare (Oct 27, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> I frequently encounter the false conception that children are better at learning a second (or 3rd, or 4th, etc.) language than adults. Leaving aside first language acquisition (including symmetrical bilingualism), children are very frequently more _successful_ in acquiring a second language in the long run, but adults are in many ways far more skilled language learners. Maybe that will seem like splitting hairs, but the point remains.


......


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## Unkotare (Oct 27, 2016)

Leaving aside first language acquisition (including symmetrical bilingualism), children are very frequently more _successful_ in acquiring a second language in the long run, but adults are in many ways far more skilled language learners.


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## ding (Oct 27, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> Unkotare said:
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> > I frequently encounter the false conception that children are better at learning a second (or 3rd, or 4th, etc.) language than adults. Leaving aside first language acquisition (including symmetrical bilingualism), children are very frequently more _successful_ in acquiring a second language in the long run, but adults are in many ways far more skilled language learners. Maybe that will seem like splitting hairs, but the point remains.
> ...


Yep.  I got that.  I say you are wrong.  I believe they are more successful period.  I'm sorry that you could not realize that was implied.


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## Unkotare (Oct 27, 2016)

ding said:


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And you are wrong.


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## ding (Oct 27, 2016)

Unkotare said:


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Is that like nanny nanny boo boo.  Can you tell me WHAT I got wrong?  I don't think you can.  I think you have been caught in a trap for two days and can't figure out how to save face.  Let me state my position one last time.  It is NOT a myth that children learn a second language easier than adults.  This is because learning language is part of a child's brain chemistry and because they are literally built to absorb information. So please do go right ahead and dismiss this without any basis for your argument.  It's not like I'm not used to it.


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## Unkotare (Oct 27, 2016)

ding said:


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## Unkotare (Oct 27, 2016)

ding said:


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Yes. You are confusing first and second language acquisition, and relying on nothing but uncritical generalizations


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## Unkotare (Oct 28, 2016)

Here is a simple explanation for the confused poster above to start learning about the actual topic. 

https://people.ucsc.edu/~mclaugh/MYTHS.htm


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## ding (Oct 28, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> Here is a simple explanation for the confused poster above to start learning about the actual topic.
> 
> https://people.ucsc.edu/~mclaugh/MYTHS.htm


"Myth 1: Children learn second languages quickly and easily"  does not equal your premise that "I frequently encounter the false conception that children are better at learning a second (or 3rd, or 4th, etc.) language than adults."

You see you have made a false equivocation.  Furthermore, your initial response to my belief that learning language is part of a child's brain chemistry and that they are literally built to absorb information was that it was a non-sequitur and then you called it a generalization.  Of course it was neither.  Your next move was to argue that I did not understand your OP.   That you were not arguing that children were not superior at learning a first language.  And when I responded that I wasn't arguing about first language acquisition, I was arguing about 2nd language application, your response was that I didn't understand the topic.  And now you are presenting a false equivalency that it is not easy for children to learn a second language and falsely equating to that must mean it is easier for adults to learn a second language than children.  Your arguments have been weighed and measured and found to be lacking.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


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You meant to say "equivalency," dope. Any "equivalency" drawn as above is yours. I provided a source for you to inform yourself at least a little about the topic at hand since you are clearly unfamiliar with it. You also seem unfamiliar with logic, but quite familiar with dishonesty.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> .......your initial response to my belief.......







You speak of your "belief" because you have no actual information. I have kindly provided you with some.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Your next move was to argue that I did not understand your OP.   .....




You clearly do not.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> .... I responded that I wasn't arguing about first language acquisition, I was arguing about 2nd language application......




You were confusing the two, and you continue to do so.


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


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No.  I wrote exactly what I meant to write, but I do appreciate your insult for what it is... an admission of your defeat.  When people have truth on their side, they argue facts.  When people have reason on their side, they argue logic.  When they have neither, they do as you just did.  

I know what your source says, I used your source to show your error. So I'm pretty familiar with what your source said.


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ding said:
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No..  I wasn't and am still not.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> I know what your source says, I used your source to show your error. ......




It seems you didn't read all of it, and didn't understand any of it. All you managed to do was attempt childishly transparent dishonesty in a desperate bid to cover your retreat. Go find a topic you know anything about.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


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The most generous possible conclusion is that you don't even realize you are doing so. Otherwise...


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## Anathema (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> It's sad to hear people convince themselves that if they are a day over the critical period they 'cannot' learn another language.



It's not a matter of "can't" for many of us. I'm an American and I speak English.... why the hell would I need to know another language?


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> It seems you didn't read all of it, and didn't understand any of it. All you managed to do was attempt childishly transparent dishonesty in a desperate bid to cover your retreat. Go find a topic you know anything about.



No.  I did read your source.  I directly quoted it and then compared it to your direct quote to show you your error.


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> The most generous possible conclusion is that you don't even realize you are doing so. Otherwise...



Given your responses, I don't believe you to be a generous person.  I believe that you behave arrogantly and cannot accept anyone having an opinion that is different than yours.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120328172212.htm


Are children really better at foreign language learning?


http://io9.gizmodo.com/5824019/adults-may-be-better-at-learning-languages-than-children


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> You speak of your "belief" because you have no actual information. I have kindly provided you with some.



No.  I do have actual information.  Young children learn in an unconscious state of mind. They are learning and don’t even know it. Adults and older children, on the other hand, have to consciously learn the information. Why? Because learning language is part of a young child's brain chemistry. They are literally built to absorb information.  That is actual information.  Information that can't be refuted.  I used the word "belief" because that is what I believe.  You on the hand must not believe that young children learn in an unconscious state of mind or that they are learning and don’t even know it or that adults and older children have to consciously learn, or that learning language is part of a young child's brain chemistry or that they are literally built to absorb information.  I have no idea why you wouldn't believe those things.


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120328172212.htm
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> Are children really better at foreign language learning?
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If you can't explain it, then you don't understand it.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
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> > It seems you didn't read all of it, and didn't understand any of it. All you managed to do was attempt childishly transparent dishonesty in a desperate bid to cover your retreat. Go find a topic you know anything about.
> ...





You didn't "compare," you dishonestly claimed an equivalency that I never made. Whether this is a result of your lack of character or your inability to grasp the topic, the result is the same.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
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Then let's see it. I have been kind enough to educate you to on the subject, but you have provided nothing but your uninformed assumptions.


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


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You see yourself with rose colored glasses.  Others see you as you really are.  How many times do I need to tell you why I believe what I do before you will stop saying I have provided you with no information.  In fact, my information was so compelling that you had to resort to the ploy that I didn't understand your OP.  

Learning language is part of a child's brain chemistry.  FACT.
Children are literally built to learn language.  FACT
Children are literally built to absorb information.  FACT


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> You didn't "compare," you dishonestly claimed an equivalency that I never made. Whether this is a result of your lack of character or your inability to grasp the topic, the result is the same.



Wow. You took an article that stated that Children don't  learn second languages quickly and easily and made the leap in logic that adults learn second languages better than children.  The only one being dishonest is you.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> ...Young children learn in an unconscious state of mind. They are learning and don’t even know it. .....




Oh, they know it. What they don't know are words like "consciousness," "learning," and "education." Guess why? AGAIN, you are mistaking first and second language acquisition. Crawling infants all learn to stand and walk (aside from those with some physical impediment) without creating a powerpoint presentation about their progress, but who will win a footrace, that infant or a 25 year-old adult? A 30 year-old man who is 6'10" and has been playing basketball for 20 years isn't growing at all. His 5 year-old son is growing very rapidly. Who do you pick for your team right now? A very young child necessarily has fewer and weaker neural connections and undeveloped pathways. He therefore has a vastly lesser capacity to learn and retain new information, a smaller and different working vocabulary, and actually takes much longer to fully acquire new aspects of language and usage (though, owing to natural circumstances they usually achieve greater_ long-term success_ *if* input remains constant and becomes more complex throughout the growth process). Adults have capacity, experience, and neurological advantages to language learning that young children do not. Adults are often, in the end, less successful in fully acquiring a second or third language due to affective issues, limited opportunity and exposure, and complexity of motivation that successful child-learners do not face. 

The point of the OP, which has completely escaped you, is that "oh, I'm too old to learn a new language" is nonsense and "kids learn better" is bullshit.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> ....  I used the word "belief" because that is what I believe. .....




You "believe" because you have no actual information to go on. I have been kind enough to provide some that even you should be able to understand, but you have chose to ignore it (or are incapable of understanding).


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
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> > You didn't "compare," you dishonestly claimed an equivalency that I never made. Whether this is a result of your lack of character or your inability to grasp the topic, the result is the same.
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Read the links. Ask an adult for help if you need it.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> Here is a simple explanation for the confused poster above to start learning about the actual topic.
> 
> https://people.ucsc.edu/~mclaugh/MYTHS.htm




"...experimental research in which children have been

compared to adults in second language learning has consistently

demonstrated the inferiority of young children under controlled

conditions. Even when the method of teaching appears to favor

learning in children, they perform more poorly than do adolescents

and adults (e.g., Asher & Price, 1967). One exception is pronunciation, although even here some studies show better results for

older learners. Similarly, naturalistic research comparing

children and adults learning second languages as immigrants does

not support the notion that younger children are better at second

language learning..."


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

You can insult me all you want.  You can pretend that I have not made a valid argument all you want.  It doesn't change reality. 

Learning language is a part of children's brain chemistry.  They are literally built to learn language.  There is no myth.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> ...You can pretend that I have not made a valid argument all you want.  .....




No need to pretend. You have admitted that all you have to offer is your uninformed "belief" despite all of the actual information I have been kind enough to provide so that you might begin to learn the first thing about the subject.


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ding said:
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Learning language is a part of children's brain chemistry. They are literally built to learn language. There is no myth.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


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You keep repeating your uninformed "belief" (you know that's SPAM, right?), and have yet to address all the information I have provided or to provide any to the contrary. Do yourself a favor and go find a topic you know anything about to discuss.


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


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It is not uninformed.  It is self evident.

Learning language is a part of children's brain chemistry. They are literally built to learn language. There is no myth.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

I frequently encounter the false conception that children are better at learning a second (or 3rd, or 4th, etc.) language than adults. Leaving aside first language acquisition (including symmetrical bilingualism), children are very frequently more _successful_ in acquiring a second language in the long run, but adults are in many ways far more skilled language learners. Maybe that will seem like splitting hairs, but the point remains.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


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You have admitted that you have nothing to go on but your personal "belief." The OP is reposted for your benefit.


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> I frequently encounter the false conception that children are better at learning a second (or 3rd, or 4th, etc.) language than adults. Leaving aside first language acquisition (including symmetrical bilingualism), children are very frequently more _successful_ in acquiring a second language in the long run, but adults are in many ways far more skilled language learners. Maybe that will seem like splitting hairs, but the point remains.


Learning language is a part of children's brain chemistry. They are literally built to learn language. There is no myth (i.e. Title of OP is "Another Myth").  There is no false conception.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
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> > I frequently encounter the false conception that children are better at learning a second (or 3rd, or 4th, etc.) language than adults. Leaving aside first language acquisition (including symmetrical bilingualism), children are very frequently more _successful_ in acquiring a second language in the long run, but adults are in many ways far more skilled language learners. Maybe that will seem like splitting hairs, but the point remains.
> ...




Stop spamming and add something, or crawl away and find a topic you are qualified to discuss.


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


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I'm not spamming.  I am responding to your argument with a self evident statement that you cannot refute.

It is self evident that learning language is a part of children's brain chemistry. They are literally built to learn language. There is no myth (i.e. Title of OP is "Another Myth"). There is no false conception.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...





Simply repeating the same post over and over is spam. Try addressing the topic if you wish to continue.


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
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You worry about what you post and I'll worry about what I post.  I am addressing the topic.  It is self evident that learning language is a part of children's brain chemistry. They are literally built to learn language. There is no myth (i.e. Title of OP is "Another Myth"). There is no false conception.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> ......  I am addressing the topic. .....




You haven't yet. Stop spamming and give it a try.


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

It's really easy to spot the butt hurt guy.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> It's really easy to spot the butt hurt guy.



Go put some ice on it.


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > It's really easy to spot the butt hurt guy.
> ...


I'll leave it to the others to decide which one of us needs the ice.  I'm pretty happy with how this exchange has gone.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

Crawling infants all learn to stand and walk (aside from those with some physical impediment) without creating a power point presentation about their progress, but who will win a footrace, that infant or a 25 year-old adult? A 30 year-old man who is 6'10" and has been playing basketball for 20 years isn't growing at all. His 5 year-old son is growing very rapidly. Who do you pick for your team right now? A very young child necessarily has fewer and weaker neural connections and undeveloped pathways. He therefore has a vastly lesser capacity to learn and retain new information, a smaller and different working vocabulary, and actually takes much longer to fully acquire new aspects of language and usage (though, owing to natural circumstances they usually achieve greater_ long-term success_ *if* input remains constant and becomes more complex throughout the growth process). Adults have capacity, experience, and neurological advantages to language learning that young children do not. Adults are often, in the end, less successful in fully acquiring a second or third language due to affective issues, limited opportunity and exposure, and complexity of motivation that successful child-learners do not face.

The point of the OP, which has completely escaped you, is that "oh, I'm too old to learn a new language" is nonsense and "kids learn better" is bullshit.
.


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> Crawling infants all learn to stand and walk (aside from those with some physical impediment) without creating a power point presentation about their progress, but who will win a footrace, that infant or a 25 year-old adult? A 30 year-old man who is 6'10" and has been playing basketball for 20 years isn't growing at all. His 5 year-old son is growing very rapidly. Who do you pick for your team right now? A very young child necessarily has fewer and weaker neural connections and undeveloped pathways. He therefore has a vastly lesser capacity to learn and retain new information, a smaller and different working vocabulary, and actually takes much longer to fully acquire new aspects of language and usage (though, owing to natural circumstances they usually achieve greater_ long-term success_ *if* input remains constant and becomes more complex throughout the growth process). Adults have capacity, experience, and neurological advantages to language learning that young children do not. Adults are often, in the end, less successful in fully acquiring a second or third language due to affective issues, limited opportunity and exposure, and complexity of motivation that successful child-learners do not face.
> 
> The point of the OP, which has completely escaped you, is that "oh, I'm too old to learn a new language" is nonsense and "kids learn better" is bullshit.
> .


Yeah, I got that.  Kids do learn better.  They are programmed to learn at that age.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Crawling infants all learn to stand and walk (aside from those with some physical impediment) without creating a power point presentation about their progress, but who will win a footrace, that infant or a 25 year-old adult? A 30 year-old man who is 6'10" and has been playing basketball for 20 years isn't growing at all. His 5 year-old son is growing very rapidly. Who do you pick for your team right now? A very young child necessarily has fewer and weaker neural connections and undeveloped pathways. He therefore has a vastly lesser capacity to learn and retain new information, a smaller and different working vocabulary, and actually takes much longer to fully acquire new aspects of language and usage (though, owing to natural circumstances they usually achieve greater_ long-term success_ *if* input remains constant and becomes more complex throughout the growth process). Adults have capacity, experience, and neurological advantages to language learning that young children do not. Adults are often, in the end, less successful in fully acquiring a second or third language due to affective issues, limited opportunity and exposure, and complexity of motivation that successful child-learners do not face.
> ...







I have provided you with opportunities to mitigate your ignorance. Take advantage of them.


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
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Oh... you are sooo great and sooo wise.  Please allow me to worship at your feet.  Get over yourself already.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
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Nope, YOU just seem to have an unhealthy attachment to your ignorance.


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

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So says the resident narcissist.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
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If you wanted a discussion, you have had many opportunities to engage in one. What is it you want?


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ding said:
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> > Unkotare said:
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To be able to have an opinion which is different than yours and not be attacked for it.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
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To not be questioned, corrected, or held accountable for your words? What a typical little liberal.


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ding said:
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That isn't what I wrote, oh evasive one.


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Here's the discussion... it is not a myth that children learn a second language easier than adults.  Why?  Because their brain chemistry is wired for learning language.  They are literally wired to learn.  They are like sponges.  Adults?  Not so much.  I believe this should be self evident to anyone with half a brain.  Even liberals should be able to follow this line of logic.  Let the questioning begin.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
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That's what you misinterpreted as "attacked," Sensitive Sally.


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> That's what you misinterpreted as "attacked," Sensitive Sally.


You know... back when I was a kid this bully tried to bully me around.  When I pointed out that he was trying to bully me, he  called me a sensitive Sally like you just did.  You know... after he stopped the bleeding from his nose and lips, he never did bully me again.  Funny how that works, isn't it?


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> ..... it is not a myth that children learn a second language easier than adults.  ....




I have explained why and how it is. I have provided you with multiple links so that you might be at least slightly informed on the topic. You have provided nothing to support your claims.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
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Is that a threat, miss?


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> I have explained why and how it is. I have provided you with multiple links so that you might be at least slightly informed on the topic. You have provided nothing to support your claims.


There you go again, trying to convince me to believe as you do.  Sorry, I have weighed and measured your argument and found it lacking.  I think I will continue to believe that kids can learn a second language easier than adults.  Are you Ok with me having this belief?


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
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> > ding said:
> ...






I don't care about your little feelings. Can you support your claim or not?


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> Is that a threat, miss?


Now who is being the sensitive Sally?  No.  It is not a threat.  It is a promise that if you try to bully me into accepting your beliefs you will end up with a figurative bloody nose.  I believe that honest men can have honest differences of opinions without having to act like jerks.  I believe you have been acting like a jerk for no other reason than I hold a different belief than you.  You are going to have to get over that.

Miss?  More insults?  That's a shocker.


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> I don't care about your little feelings. Can you support your claim or not?


I have, ad nausea.  You are the one who won't let this go because your ego has been wounded because I won't agree with you.  Sorry.  I believe that you are wrong.  I believe that children can learn a second language easier than adults because they are wired to learn language.  I believe it is self evident and needs no more explanation than that.  Why is this so hard for you to understand.

That bully I told you about also said he didn't care about my "little feelings."   Of course that was right before blood came gushing out of his nose.  After that he did seem to care about my "little feelings."  Funny how that works, isn't it.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Is that a threat, miss?
> ...



Still you.


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> Still you.


I'm happy enough for others to decide for themselves which one of us has been butt hurt.  I'm pretty happy how this conversation has gone.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > I don't care about your little feelings. Can you support your claim or not?
> ...





"I believe" is not support for a claim. Even you should be able to understand basic reasoning.


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ding said:
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Really?  Is that all you have?  So you KNOW for a fact it is a myth?  Really?

I just read your 2nd Language Acquisition thread.  You were acting like a jerk.  Is that how behave in real life?  Oh yeah, it may be time for you to bump it back to the top of the list.  I can't believe you do that.  That's a sign of narcissism.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...




You are the one who "has" offered nothing to support your claim. Change that, or admit your claim is baseless and move on.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> ... You argue like a liberal. ....




There you go again, 3rd grade.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> ....
> 
> That bully I told you about also said he didn't care about my "little feelings."   Of course that was right before blood came gushing out of his nose.  After that he did seem to care about my "little feelings."  Funny how that works, isn't it.




There's little tough boy again.....


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > ....
> ...


Why did you edit out my comment in your reply?  The full comment should have been, "I have, ad nausea. You are the one who won't let this go because your ego has been wounded because I won't agree with you. Sorry. I believe that you are wrong. I believe that children can learn a second language easier than adults because they are wired to learn language. I believe it is self evident and needs no more explanation than that. Why is this so hard for you to understand."

What was up with that?


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


You need for me to prove to you that children are wired to learn language?


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...




Maybe your straw man can read the OP for you:

I frequently encounter the false conception that children are better at learning a second (or 3rd, or 4th, etc.) language than adults. Leaving aside first language acquisition (including symmetrical bilingualism), children are very frequently more _successful_ in acquiring a second language in the long run, but adults are in many ways far more skilled language learners. Maybe that will seem like splitting hairs, but the point remains.


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


You didn't answer the question, dope.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> .... "I have, ad nausea. ....




You have not.


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > .... "I have, ad nausea. ....
> ...


So you need for me to prove to you that children are hard wired to learn language?


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> .....
> You didn't answer the question.....




It wasn't a question, it was a straw man.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...




Do you need help reading the OP? Or will you offer another straw man?


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > .....
> ...


No.  It was a question.  The question mark is a dead give away.   It's ok.  I know you are afraid to answer it.  You lose.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...







Not an honest one. It was an excuse for posing a straw man.


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


The dishonesty is yours.  You want me to provide proof for something you already believe.  That is dishonesty.  Let me know when you get serious about having an honest discussion.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> Here is a simple explanation for the confused poster above to start learning about the actual topic.
> 
> https://people.ucsc.edu/~mclaugh/MYTHS.htm


.


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


My beliefs are valid.  My justifications are valid.  Whether or not you agree with me is unimportant.  What is important is how you conducted yourself.


Unkotare said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Here is a simple explanation for the confused poster above to start learning about the actual topic.
> ...


My beliefs are valid.  My justifications are valid.  I think you are wrong and I think you are a dishonest person.


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > ding said:
> ...





Not unless you can back them up.


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## ding (Oct 29, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


You want me to back up something you already believe?  Really?


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> ...  I think you are wrong .....




Based on nothing but your "beliefs"?


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## Unkotare (Oct 29, 2016)

ding said:


> ... I think you are wrong.....




About what, dopey?


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## ding (Oct 30, 2016)

You want me to back up something you already believe? Really?


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## Unkotare (Oct 30, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > ... I think you are wrong.....
> ...



Well?


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## Unkotare (Nov 7, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> I frequently encounter the false conception that children are better at learning a second (or 3rd, or 4th, etc.) language than adults. Leaving aside first language acquisition (including symmetrical bilingualism), children are very frequently more _successful_ in acquiring a second language in the long run, but adults are in many ways far more skilled language learners. Maybe that will seem like splitting hairs, but the point remains.


.


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## Unkotare (Apr 24, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> I frequently encounter the false conception that children are better at learning a second (or 3rd, or 4th, etc.) language than adults. Leaving aside first language acquisition (including symmetrical bilingualism), children are very frequently more _successful_ in acquiring a second language in the long run, but adults are in many ways far more skilled language learners. Maybe that will seem like splitting hairs, but the point remains.


.


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