# Texas Abortion bill



## Chris

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) -- Wearing pink tennis shoes to prepare for nearly 13 consecutive hours of standing, a Democratic Texas state senator on Tuesday began a one-woman filibuster to block a GOP-led effort that would impose stringent new abortion restrictions across the nation's second-most populous state.

Sen. Wendy Davis, 50, of Fort Worth began the filibuster at 11:18 a.m. CDT Tuesday and passed the halfway mark in her countdown to midnight - the deadline for the end of the 30-day special session.

Rules stipulate she remain standing, not lean on her desk or take any breaks - even for meals or to use the bathroom. Colleagues removed her chair so she wouldn't sit down by mistake.

If signed into law, the measures would close almost every abortion clinic in Texas, a state 773 miles wide and 790 miles long with 26 million people. A woman living along the Mexico border or in West Texas would have to drive hundreds of miles to obtain an abortion if the law passes.

In her opening remarks, Davis said she was "rising on the floor today to humbly give voice to thousands of Texans" and called Republican efforts to pass the bill a "raw abuse of power."

PilotOnline.com: national & world News for Hampton Roads, Va., from The Virginian-Pilot


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## TemplarKormac

Abortion is murder. If not done for the sake of health, it is done just because she can. What about that isn't appalling to you?


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## Trajan

Chris said:


> AUSTIN, Texas (AP) -- Wearing pink tennis shoes to prepare for nearly 13 consecutive hours of standing, a Democratic Texas state senator on Tuesday began a one-woman filibuster to block a GOP-led effort that would impose stringent new abortion restrictions across the nation's second-most populous state.
> 
> Sen. Wendy Davis, 50, of Fort Worth began the filibuster at 11:18 a.m. CDT Tuesday and passed the halfway mark in her countdown to midnight - the deadline for the end of the 30-day special session.
> 
> Rules stipulate she remain standing, not lean on her desk or take any breaks - even for meals or to use the bathroom. Colleagues removed her chair so she wouldn't sit down by mistake.
> 
> If signed into law, the measures would close almost every abortion clinic in Texas, a state 773 miles wide and 790 miles long with 26 million people. A woman living along the Mexico border or in West Texas would have to drive hundreds of miles to obtain an abortion if the law passes.
> 
> In her opening remarks, Davis said she was "rising on the floor today to humbly give voice to thousands of Texans" and called Republican efforts to pass the bill a "raw abuse of power."
> 
> PilotOnline.com: national & world News for Hampton Roads, Va., from The Virginian-Pilot



I thought filibusters were ...'bad'...?

oh wait.....


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## deltex1

Wendy has a great rack.


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## The Rabbi

So now obstruction is good?
Oh wait.


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## R.C. Christian

What a stupid fucking bitch.


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## OKTexas

Have to admire someone willing to stand for their convictions, with any luck she will faint about 8 pm and the bill will be passed while they haul her ass out on a stretcher.


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## BreezeWood

> In the hallway outside the Senate chamber, hundreds of women stood in line, waiting for people in the gallery to give up their seats. Women's rights supporters wore orange t-shirts to show their support for Davis,



a profile in courage ... what is to stop them from just calling for another special session if she succeeds ?


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## g5000

While I am pro-life and oppose her beliefs, there is a twisted part of me which hopes this woman beats Rand Paul's time.


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## g5000

Chris said:


> God bless Wendy Davis



I don't think God is going to be blessing a pro-abortionist any time soon.


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## The Rabbi

NoTeaPartyPleez said:


> deltex1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wendy has a great rack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Not to mention stamina, determination and fortitude.  Something you could only feign on a message board for 30 minutes, and not in front of the Texas Senate for 13 hours, Keyboard Kowboy. *
Click to expand...


Let's see how great your rack is.

Do you have anything of substance to offer here?  Or just your usual bullshit.


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## Dot Com

heard her on the radio today. godbless her for standing up for women's rights.


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## The Rabbi

Dot Com said:


> heard her on the radio today. godbless her for standing up for women's rights.



So you're OK with obstructing the majority.


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## BreezeWood

The Rabbi said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> heard her on the radio today. godbless her for standing up for women's rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you're OK with obstructing the majority.
Click to expand...



is that the same as gerrymandering ?


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## Lakhota

Go Wendy!!!!!


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## The Rabbi

BreezeWood said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> heard her on the radio today. godbless her for standing up for women's rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you're OK with obstructing the majority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> is that the same as gerrymandering ?
Click to expand...


Was that a serious question or are you deflecting?


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## OriginalShroom

Lakhota said:


> Go Wendy!!!!!



So you are now fine with one person preventing the majority from voting on a bill?


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## OriginalShroom

Looks like she didn't follow the rules..



> Texas lieutenant governor halts filibuster on abortion restrictions | Fox News
> 
> 
> Texas' lieutenant governor suspended a one-woman filibuster against a Republican-led effort that would effectively shut down most abortion clinics across the Lone Star state, but Democrats moved quickly to appeal the decision.
> 
> Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst made the decision Tuesday night after determining that Democratic Sen. Wendy Davis strayed off the topic. Democrats immediately appealed the decision and set off a heated debate about the rules and whether they could vote on the bill.
> 
> Wearing pink tennis shoes to prepare for nearly 13 consecutive hours of standing, Davis, 50, of Fort Worth began the filibuster at 11:18 a.m. CDT Tuesday and passed the nine-hour mark in her countdown to midnight -- the deadline for the end of the 30-day special session.
> 
> Rules stipulate she remain standing, not lean on her desk or take any breaks -- even for meals or to use the bathroom. But she must also stay on topic, and Republicans pointed out a mistake and later protested again when another lawmaker helped her with a back brace.
> 
> If signed into law, the measures would close almost every abortion clinic in Texas, a state 773 miles wide and 790 miles long with 26 million people. A woman living along the Mexico border or in West Texas would have to drive hundreds of miles to obtain an abortion if the law passes.
> 
> In her opening remarks, Davis said she was "rising on the floor today to humbly give voice to thousands of Texans" and called Republican efforts to pass the bill a "raw abuse of power."
> 
> "Partisanship and ambition are not unusual in a state capitol but here in Texas right now it has risen to a level of profound irresponsibility," Davis was quoted as saying by MyFoxAustin.com.
> 
> Democrats chose Davis to lead the effort because of her background as a woman who had her first child as a teenager and went on to graduate from Harvard Law School.
> 
> In the hallway outside the Senate chamber, hundreds of women stood in line, waiting for people in the gallery to give up their seats. Women's rights supporters wore orange T-shirts to show their support for Davis, and Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst reminded those in the gallery that interrupting the proceedings could results in 48 hours in jail.
> 
> Davis tried to stay comfortable and sharp by shifting her weight from hip to hip and slowly walking around her desk while reading notes from a large binder on her desk.
> 
> MyFoxAustin.com reported that a protester in the Senate gallery, identified as Mike Bradford, was removed by security after causing a disturbance. He explained his opposition to abortion in an interview with reporters outside the gallery.
> 
> "I see all the supporters mostly I see, firstly white women, who are supporting abortion but yet abortions are effecting a certain demographic that's not included in the people supporting it,"  Bradford told the station.
> 
> Twice in the first six hours, anti-abortion lawmakers questioned Davis about the bill, presenting their arguments that it would protect women or that abortions were wrong. Davis answered their questions but did not give up control of the floor.
> 
> "This is really about women's health," said Sen. Bob Deuell, who introduced a requirement that all abortions take place in surgical centers. "Sometimes bad things can happen."
> 
> Davis questioned then why vasectomies and colonoscopies aren't also required to take place in such clinics. "Because I've been unable to have a simple question answered to help me understand how this would lead to better care for women, I must question the underlying motive for doing so."
> 
> Davis read testimony from women and doctors who would be impacted by the changes, but who were denied the opportunity to speak in a Republican-controlled committee. During one heart-wrenching story describing a woman's difficult pregnancy, Davis choked up several times and wiped tears.
> 
> The bill would ban abortion after 20 weeks of pregnancy and force many clinics that perform the procedure to upgrade their facilities and be classified as ambulatory surgical centers. Also, doctors would be required to have admitting privileges at a hospital within 30 miles -- a tall order in rural communities.
> 
> "If this passes, abortion would be virtually banned in the state of Texas, and many women could be forced to resort to dangerous and unsafe measures," said Cecile Richards, president of Planned Parenthood Action Fund and daughter of the late former Texas governor Ann Richards.
> 
> Sen. Dan Patrick, R-Houston, said the Democrats never should have been allowed to put Republicans "in a box" and complained that many in the Senate GOP were "flying by the seat of their pants."
> 
> But the bill's bogging down began with Republican Gov. Rick Perry, who summoned lawmakers back to work immediately after the regular legislative session ended May 27 but didn't add abortion to the special session to-do list until late in the process. The Legislature can only take up issues at the governor's direction.
> 
> Then, House Democrats succeeded in stalling nearly all night Sunday, keeping the bill from reaching the Senate until 11 a.m. Monday.
> 
> Debate in that chamber included lawmakers waving coat-hangers on the floor and claiming the new rules are so draconian that women are going to be forced to head to Mexico to have abortions.
> 
> At one point, the bill's sponsor, Republican Rep. Jodie Laubenberg of Spring, errantly suggested that emergency room rape kits could be used to terminate pregnancies.


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## Avatar4321

g5000 said:


> Chris said:
> 
> 
> 
> God bless Wendy Davis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think God is going to be blessing a pro-abortionist any time soon.
Click to expand...


Im sure Chris doesn't see that.


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## Avatar4321

Dot Com said:


> heard her on the radio today. godbless her for standing up for women's rights.



Why do you think it's a woman's right to kill her offspring?


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## Avatar4321

> "This is really about women's health," said Sen. Bob Deuell, who introduced a requirement that all abortions take place in surgical centers. "Sometimes bad things can happen."



Bad things can happen? You mean like killing your unborn child?


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## bodecea

OriginalShroom said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> Go Wendy!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you are now fine with one person preventing the majority from voting on a bill?
Click to expand...


Not if it's against the law.   If it IS okay by legal procedures, then she can rock on!


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## bodecea

Avatar4321 said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> heard her on the radio today. godbless her for standing up for women's rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you think it's a woman's right to kill her offspring?
Click to expand...


So, you believe abortion to be murder.


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## FishfaceDeMarco

I think she's done, and the bill's gonna go through!


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## buckeye45_73

Chris, before you use God bless, it helps to beleive in God


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## Avatar4321

bodecea said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> heard her on the radio today. godbless her for standing up for women's rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you think it's a woman's right to kill her offspring?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you believe abortion to be murder.
Click to expand...


I consider it unjustified killing. I am not sure there is malice for murder in most cases.


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## Avatar4321

buckeye45_73 said:


> Chris, before you use God bless, it helps to beleive in God



It also tends to help to be asking God to bless for things God supports.


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## TemplarKormac

God cannot bless murder. I'm sorry. If you are killing for want and nothing else...I don't even think God could support it.


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## TemplarKormac

Avatar4321 said:


> buckeye45_73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chris, before you use God bless, it helps to beleive in God
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It also tends to help to be asking God to bless for things God supports.
Click to expand...


^This


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## Locke11_21

Dot Com said:


> heard her on the radio today. godbless her for standing up for women's rights.




Yes, she is really standing up for the rights of millions of females in wombs that will be murdered!  What a hypocrite.





			
				Trajan said:
			
		

> I thought filibusters were ...'bad'...?
> 
> oh wait.....




You know how it is, the only good filibuster is a Democrat filibuster, just like the only good war is a Democrat war.


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## OriginalShroom

All for nothing.



> Texas Senate GOP passes restrictive abortion bill
> 
> 
> AUSTIN, Texas (AP) &#8212; Amid the deafening roar of abortion rights supporters, Texas Republicans huddled around the Senate podium to pass new abortion restrictions, but whether the vote was cast before or after midnight is in dispute.
> 
> Hundreds of protesters cheered, clapped and shouted for the last 15 minutes of the special legislative session in an attempt to run out the clock before senators could vote on the bill that is expected to close almost every abortion clinic in the nation's second most populous state.
> 
> While Democrats as well as assembled reporters watched clocks on their mobile phones tick past midnight, Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst said the voting began just before. The bill now goes to Gov. Rick Perry, who directed that the legislation be taken up in the special session and is expected to sign it into law.
> 
> Democrats immediately predicted a legal challenge.
> 
> "It's questionable to vote when no one can hear to even know if a vote is taken," said Sen. Kirk Watson, D-Austin.
> 
> One of the state's most conservative lawmakers, Houston Republican Sen. Dan Patrick, insisted the vote was valid.
> 
> "Had that not happened, everyone would have known what was happening," he said.
> 
> Sen. Wendy Davis, D-Fort Worth, spent most of the day staging an old-fashioned filibuster, attracting wide support, including a mention from President Barack Obama's campaign Twitter account. Her Twitter following went from 1,200 in the morning to more than 20,000 by Tuesday night.
> 
> Davis' mission, however, was cut short.
> 
> Rules stipulated she remain standing, not lean on her desk or take any breaks &#8212; even for meals or to use the bathroom. But she also was required to stay on topic, and Republicans pointed out a mistake and later protested again when another lawmaker helped her with a back brace.
> 
> Republican Sen. Donna Campbell called the third point of order because of her remarks about a previous law concerning sonograms. Under the rules, lawmakers can vote to end a filibuster after three sustained points of order.
> 
> After much back and forth, the GOP voted to end the filibuster minutes before midnight, sparking the raucous response from protesters.


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## Agit8r

Puritanism got aborted, yo!


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## Politico

Who?????


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## Merchant_of_Meh

Lotsa of posturing and presumptions on what God thinks and what God doesn't think. Does He not work in mysterious ways, if I recall? If I were a believer, I would believe this to be one of those ways.

As for the OP, I think its quite courageous what she's doing. I personally think abortion is wrong in all cases except the health of the mother, but what I think is even more wrong is that men are deciding this issue. 

That makes zero sense, in all honesty.


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## NoTeaPartyPleez

The Rabbi said:


> NoTeaPartyPleez said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> deltex1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wendy has a great rack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Not to mention stamina, determination and fortitude.  Something you could only feign on a message board for 30 minutes, and not in front of the Texas Senate for 13 hours, Keyboard Kowboy. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's see how great your rack is.
> 
> Do you have anything of substance to offer here?  Or just your usual bullshit.
Click to expand...

*
Your feelings get hurt so easily.....really.  Try manning up.*


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## daveman

Chris said:


> God bless Wendy Davis


Do you think God would bless her for allowing the slaughter of unborn babies?

Do you think at all?


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## daveman

OriginalShroom said:


> All for nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Texas Senate GOP passes restrictive abortion bill
> 
> 
> AUSTIN, Texas (AP)  Amid the deafening roar of abortion rights supporters, Texas Republicans huddled around the Senate podium to pass new abortion restrictions, but whether the vote was cast before or after midnight is in dispute.
> 
> Hundreds of protesters cheered, clapped and shouted for the last 15 minutes of the special legislative session in an attempt to run out the clock before senators could vote on the bill that is expected to close almost every abortion clinic in the nation's second most populous state.
> 
> While Democrats as well as assembled reporters watched clocks on their mobile phones tick past midnight, Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst said the voting began just before. The bill now goes to Gov. Rick Perry, who directed that the legislation be taken up in the special session and is expected to sign it into law.
> 
> Democrats immediately predicted a legal challenge.
> 
> "It's questionable to vote when no one can hear to even know if a vote is taken," said Sen. Kirk Watson, D-Austin.
> 
> One of the state's most conservative lawmakers, Houston Republican Sen. Dan Patrick, insisted the vote was valid.
> 
> "Had that not happened, everyone would have known what was happening," he said.
> 
> Sen. Wendy Davis, D-Fort Worth, spent most of the day staging an old-fashioned filibuster, attracting wide support, including a mention from President Barack Obama's campaign Twitter account. Her Twitter following went from 1,200 in the morning to more than 20,000 by Tuesday night.
> 
> Davis' mission, however, was cut short.
> 
> Rules stipulated she remain standing, not lean on her desk or take any breaks  even for meals or to use the bathroom. But she also was required to stay on topic, and Republicans pointed out a mistake and later protested again when another lawmaker helped her with a back brace.
> 
> Republican Sen. Donna Campbell called the third point of order because of her remarks about a previous law concerning sonograms. Under the rules, lawmakers can vote to end a filibuster after three sustained points of order.
> 
> After much back and forth, the GOP voted to end the filibuster minutes before midnight, sparking the raucous response from protesters.
Click to expand...

According to Fakey, being loud and disruptive is being violent.  All these people should have been arrested.

Of course, he'll side with the Democrats.


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## rightwinger

How long before Rush Limbaugh calls her a slut?


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## mal

"The measure would have banned abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy and would have required all clinics to be graded as surgical centers, with all doctors required to have admitting privileges at hospitals. It's estimated that nearly all of the state's clinics wouldn't have been able to meet the new standards."

Texas abortion bill fails to pass after epic filibuster - U.S. News

Sorry... But Abortions shouldn't happen after 20 weeks and Abortionists should be Legitimate Doctors.

This would have Passed... And the Majority of Texans support it.

If it were the Reverse the Pro-Abortion Left would be Losing their Fucking Minds about "the People's Will" and "Let the Vote happen".

Such is... Yet another example.



peace...


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## LoneLaugher

I heard the bill would have reduced the number of clinics that perform abortions in Texas down to 5. Is that true?

How many abortions are actually performed after 20 weeks in Texas each year? 

How many of those are done to save the life of the mother or avoid undue suffering on the part of the mother and/or future baby?

Answer these questions......and maybe reasonable becomes ridiculous.


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## MeBelle

OriginalShroom said:


> All for nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Texas Senate GOP passes restrictive abortion bill
> 
> 
> AUSTIN, Texas (AP)  Amid the deafening roar of abortion rights supporters, Texas Republicans huddled around the Senate podium to pass new abortion restrictions, but whether the vote was cast before or after midnight is in dispute.
> 
> Republican Sen. Donna Campbell called the third point of order because of her remarks about a previous law concerning sonograms. Under the rules, lawmakers can vote to end a filibuster after three sustained points of order.
> 
> After much back and forth, the GOP voted to end the filibuster minutes before midnight, sparking the raucous response from protesters.
Click to expand...


Beyond that, a vote was called and the legislative procedure had begun.
Not certain how a leg process can cease, regardless of time.


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## Seawytch

g5000 said:


> Chris said:
> 
> 
> 
> God bless Wendy Davis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think God is going to be blessing a pro-abortionist any time soon.
Click to expand...


No reason to think he wouldn't. Technically, for those that believe, isn't god the original abortionist?


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## mal

LoneLaugher said:


> I heard the bill would have reduced the number of clinics that perform abortions in Texas down to 5. Is that true?
> 
> How many abortions are actually performed after 20 weeks in Texas each year?
> 
> How many of those are done to save the life of the mother or avoid undue suffering on the part of the mother and/or future baby?
> 
> Answer these questions......and maybe reasonable becomes ridiculous.



Doctors don't want to Perform Abortions... Why is that?...

As for saving the Life of the Mother after 20 weeks.

Link to that happening?...

Give me (1) Texas Woman who's Life was Saved by a post-20-week Abortion.

I'll be here.



peace...


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## rightwinger

TemplarKormac said:


> God cannot bless murder. I'm sorry. If you are killing for want and nothing else...I don't even think God could support it.



God was responsible for murdering millions, including infants


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## novasteve

It's hilarious liberals accuse others of "being on the wrong side of history" when they think killing your own child because it is inconvenient is a "fundamental right".

Also, libs, any comments on the hippocratic oath? Does abortion as a form of birth control "do no harm"?


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## hazlnut

LoneLaugher said:


> I heard the bill would have reduced the number of clinics that perform abortions in Texas down to 5. Is that true?
> 
> How many abortions are actually performed after 20 weeks in Texas each year?
> 
> How many of those are done to save the life of the mother or avoid undue suffering on the part of the mother and/or future baby?
> 
> Answer these questions......and maybe reasonable becomes ridiculous.




Great post --

These are the things the anti-medicine and anti-freedom people DON'T want to talk about.

The underage incest victim that doesn't come forward (because she doesn't show) until 18 weeks and her mother (ashamed) doesn't get her to a clinic until 20 weeks.

The anti-women crowd also doesn't like to talk about the fact that we take people off life support (terminate a life) EVERY SINGLE DAY!!


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## hazlnut

novasteve said:


> It's hilarious liberals accuse others of "being on the wrong side of history" when they think killing your own child because it is inconvenient is a "fundamental right".




You want to turn terminating a pregnancy into "killing" while calling terminating life support the private decision of a loving family.

You people are the biggest hypocrites walking the planet.




> Also, libs, any comments on the hippocratic oath? Does abortion as a form of birth control "do no harm"?




Plan B - not abortion.

First term abortion - no harm

Carrying a seriously deformed fetus to term - Harm



Forcing a rape victim to carry to term - Harm

Forcing an incest victim to carry to term - Harm

Sarah Palin holding her down syndrome baby up as a political prop - HARM








Because down syndrome infants LOVE screaming crowds!!!


HARM, HARM, HARM...!!


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## Pete7469

I think the law should exempt liberals. In fact perhaps liberals should be forced to get abortions, just too keep the genepool clean.


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## Caroljo

hazlnut said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> 
> I heard the bill would have reduced the number of clinics that perform abortions in Texas down to 5. Is that true?
> 
> How many abortions are actually performed after 20 weeks in Texas each year?
> 
> How many of those are done to save the life of the mother or avoid undue suffering on the part of the mother and/or future baby?
> 
> Answer these questions......and maybe reasonable becomes ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great post --
> 
> These are the things the anti-medicine and anti-freedom people DON'T want to talk about.
> 
> The underage incest victim that doesn't come forward (because she doesn't show) until 18 weeks and her mother (ashamed) doesn't get her to a clinic until 20 weeks.
> 
> The anti-women crowd also doesn't like to talk about the fact that we take people off life support (terminate a life) EVERY SINGLE DAY!!
Click to expand...


Then maybe parents better start educating their kids on this fact as soon as they are able to understand?  Crap...I wouldn't be ashamed, I'd be pissed and everyone would know what that person did to my child no matter who it was!  Teach your kids...if you don't, then that's your problem.

And what does this have to do with life support?  People are taken off that when there's no hope of recovery.  What does that have to do with murdering a baby that isn't even born yet and HAS hope of a long life?  Nothing!


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## Wildman

*...terminating life support the private decision of a loving family.*

anyone here ever do that ?

i did, my Father had a living will that stated NO MEANS OF ARTIFICIAL LIFE SUPPORT, after all the gadgets were taken off him, the  hospital put him on oxygen and IV, he was in a deep coma and not ever expected to revive, it took me three days and a court order to pull the O2 and IV, as they were "ARTIFICIAL MEANS" of keeping his heart beating and breathing, once those things were removed, i sat holding his hand.., in less than 5 minutes he passed on, he was 95 y.o.


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## The Breeze

Abortions should be able to be applied retroactively.


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## Pete7469

Wildman said:


> *...terminating life support the private decision of a loving family.*
> 
> anyone here ever do that ?
> 
> i did, my Father had a living will that stated NO MEANS OF ARTIFICIAL LIFE SUPPORT, after all the gadgets were taken off him, the  hospital put him on oxygen and IV, he was in a deep coma and not ever expected to revive, it took me three days and a court order to pull the O2 and IV, as they were "ARTIFICIAL MEANS" of keeping his heart beating and breathing, once those things were removed, i sat holding his hand.., in less than 5 minutes he passed on, he was 95 y.o.



Sorry you had to go through all that.


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## NYcarbineer

Avatar4321 said:


> buckeye45_73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chris, before you use God bless, it helps to beleive in God
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It also tends to help to be asking God to bless for things God supports.
Click to expand...


As if you would know what that is...


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## Pete7469

The Breeze said:


> Abortions should be able to be applied retroactively.



I could abide that.

Moonbats are always whining about "over population".

It's time they stepped up to the plate and put their welfare checks where their mouth is.

Hell, for all their shrieking about global warming and CO2 you'd think they'd be willing to stop contributing to the "problem" and hold their breath forever.

Imagine how much cooler the world would be if bed wetters stopped exhaling.


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## Wildman

i forgot to mention..., "REASONABLE", there is that fucking word liarberals love to use when arguing about "reasonable" gun laws/restrictions.., who is the judge of "reasonable" ? your definition may be 100% different than mine.., hell ! the supreme court can not define "reasonable" !!  

this i do agree with 100%

*



			Abortions should be able to be applied retroactively.
		
Click to expand...

*
 have said that for many years, also prisons should be built underground and flooded once a year !!


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## aaronleland

Pete7469 said:


> The Breeze said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abortions should be able to be applied retroactively.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I could abide that.
> 
> Moonbats are always whining about "over population".
> 
> It's time they stepped up to the plate and put their welfare checks where their mouth is.
> 
> Hell, for all their shrieking about global warming and CO2 you'd think they'd be willing to stop contributing to the "problem" and hold their breath forever.
> 
> Imagine how much cooler the world would be if bed wetters stopped exhaling.
Click to expand...


Compassionate conservatism. We care about you when you are a fetus. When you are a grown adult... let them die.


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## Black_Label

aaronleland said:


> Pete7469 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Breeze said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abortions should be able to be applied retroactively.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I could abide that.
> 
> Moonbats are always whining about "over population".
> 
> It's time they stepped up to the plate and put their welfare checks where their mouth is.
> 
> Hell, for all their shrieking about global warming and CO2 you'd think they'd be willing to stop contributing to the "problem" and hold their breath forever.
> 
> Imagine how much cooler the world would be if bed wetters stopped exhaling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Compassionate conservatism. We care about you when you are a fetus. When you are a grown adult... let them die.
Click to expand...


The right wingers are a bunch of idiots aren't they?

"But those poor poor little angels! Every child is a gift from god and abortion is evil!"

:baby is born:

"Screw you and your baby you good for nothing leech!  No funds for food! No funds for health care! No funds for housing! No funds for education! Get off of welfare so I don't have to pay for your hellspawn and get a job!


----------



## Chris

The Forces of Darkness defeated again.....

AUSTIN &#8212; A bill that would have given Texas one of the most restrictive abortion laws in the country died amid chaos at the end of the special legislative session overnight.

After Republicans used strict interpretations of Senate rules to knock Sen. Wendy Davis, D-Fort Worth, off her marathon filibuster intended to block a vote on the measure before the midnight Tuesday deadline, abortion-rights advocates watching the session erupted in a loud protest.

After a delay of several minutes, it appeared senators voted 19-10 in favor of the bill, almost entirely along party lines. Democrats said the vote came too late, but Republicans declared victory on the matter.

Shortly after 2 a.m. Wednesday, a very upset Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst finally came to the dais to address the press and chamber on the fate of Senate Bill 5 and the crowd that at times drowned out the proceedings.

&#8220;Members, the constitutional time for the first called session for the 83rd Legislature has expired,&#8221; Dewhurst said. &#8220;Senate Bill 5 cannot be signed in the presence of the Senate at this time and therefore cannot be enrolled. It&#8217;s been fun, but, uh, see you soon.

Abortion bill dies in Texas Senate after filibuster, crowd outburst | Dallasnews.com - News for Dallas, Texas - The Dallas Morning News


----------



## Jroc

buckeye45_73 said:


> Chris, before you use God bless, it helps to beleive in God



Well said


----------



## Chris

50% of American women will have an unwanted pregnancy in their lifetime. The Republicans want the government to force these women to bring their pregnancy to term. Unwanted children are much more likely to be abused. 

Therefore, Republicans are pro child abuse. 

And don't tell me an embryo is a human being. If it was, the thousands of frozen embryos in fertility labs in this country would have the right to own guns.


----------



## RDD_1210

g5000 said:


> Chris said:
> 
> 
> 
> God bless Wendy Davis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think God is going to be blessing a pro-abortionist any time soon.
Click to expand...


Why not? Who is the cause of more death, than God?


----------



## National Socialist

Texas abortion bill fails after chaotic stand-off in capital | Fox News

Why were these communistic little fucks dragged out and beaten? Its just like at school they were disruptive and should have been dragged out into the street...fucking little pricks.Their rant should have been WHOO HOO LETS KILL BABIES.


----------



## RDD_1210

TemplarKormac said:


> God cannot bless murder. I'm sorry. If you are killing for want and nothing else...I don't even think God could support it.



LOL, God is the leading cause of death. He obviously has absolutely no problem with murder. God even has no problem with killing children. So let's stop pretending that abortion is anything that God would be against.


----------



## rightwinger

Chris said:


> The Forces of Darkness defeated again.....
> 
> AUSTIN  A bill that would have given Texas one of the most restrictive abortion laws in the country died amid chaos at the end of the special legislative session overnight.
> 
> After Republicans used strict interpretations of Senate rules to knock Sen. Wendy Davis, D-Fort Worth, off her marathon filibuster intended to block a vote on the measure before the midnight Tuesday deadline, abortion-rights advocates watching the session erupted in a loud protest.
> 
> After a delay of several minutes, it appeared senators voted 19-10 in favor of the bill, almost entirely along party lines. Democrats said the vote came too late, but Republicans declared victory on the matter.
> 
> Shortly after 2 a.m. Wednesday, a very upset Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst finally came to the dais to address the press and chamber on the fate of Senate Bill 5 and the crowd that at times drowned out the proceedings.
> 
> Members, the constitutional time for the first called session for the 83rd Legislature has expired, Dewhurst said. Senate Bill 5 cannot be signed in the presence of the Senate at this time and therefore cannot be enrolled. Its been fun, but, uh, see you soon.
> 
> Abortion bill dies in Texas Senate after filibuster, crowd outburst | Dallasnews.com - News for Dallas, Texas - The Dallas Morning News



It is a momentary defeat for Republicans and they will eventually push this through

But it is a case of Republicans winning the battle and losing the war. They will appease their anti-abortion faction and win brownie points but they will lose the vote of more and more women. Not just in Texas, but around the country

It is not just the fact that they are changing the rules and defacto outlawing abortion but the fact that they bullied it through and stomped on the rights of Texas women

They will pay the price in the long run


----------



## FJO

BreezeWood said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> heard her on the radio today. godbless her for standing up for women's rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you're OK with obstructing the majority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> is that the same as gerrymandering ?
Click to expand...


Gerrymandering is perfectly OK and is NOT obstructing the majority when Democrats do it.


----------



## rightwinger

RDD_1210 said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> 
> God cannot bless murder. I'm sorry. If you are killing for want and nothing else...I don't even think God could support it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, God is the leading cause of death. He obviously has absolutely no problem with murder. God even has no problem with killing children. So let's stop pretending that abortion is anything that God would be against.
Click to expand...


God killed the first born children of Egypt just to make a point. I don't see him standing up against abortion....he aborted live innocent children


----------



## JakeStarkey

The Tea Party would do exactly the same thing if they had thought of it and then there would have been a brawl in the balconies.


----------



## rightwinger

Democracy in action


----------



## Seawytch

rightwinger said:


> RDD_1210 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> 
> God cannot bless murder. I'm sorry. If you are killing for want and nothing else...I don't even think God could support it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, God is the leading cause of death. He obviously has absolutely no problem with murder. God even has no problem with killing children. So let's stop pretending that abortion is anything that God would be against.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> God killed the first born children of Egypt just to make a point. I don't see him standing up against abortion....he aborted live innocent children
Click to expand...


And when god told someone to count all the people...he told him to ignore children under a month old. They didn't count as people.


----------



## National Socialist

More like mob rule in action..that ain't democracy that's letting people murder their babies because people are to lazy/incompetent not to get pregnant...


----------



## Wry Catcher

AnCapAtheist said:


> Texas abortion bill fails after chaotic stand-off in capital | Fox News
> 
> Why were these communistic little fucks dragged out and beaten? Its just like at school they were disruptive and should have been dragged out into the street...fucking little pricks.Their rant should have been WHOO HOO LETS KILL BABIES.



YOU are the best argument for abortion.


----------



## rightwinger

AnCapAtheist said:


> More like mob rule in action..that ain't democracy that's letting people murder their babies because people are to lazy/incompetent not to get pregnant...



Roe v Wade is the law of the land

At the same time Texas is trying to instil a defacto ban on abortion they are trying to pass a law that allows them to execute 17 year olds


----------



## National Socialist

I don't give a shit about roe vs wade its an immoral,unethical law that legalizes murder.


----------



## Chris

98.5% of all abortions are before 24 weeks, which is the medically accepted minimal time of viability.

And the vast majority of those are before 12 weeks, when the fetus is about the size of a raspberry.

God, or nature, is the most prolific abortionist. 30-50% of all pregnancies are naturally terminated before the 12th week.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Murder is a legal term, Cap.

Use words correctly, please.


----------



## JustSomeGuy

rightwinger said:


> Democracy in action



Well, for one, we're not a democracy.


----------



## Black_Label

AnCapAtheist said:


> Texas abortion bill fails after chaotic stand-off in capital | Fox News
> 
> Why were these communistic little fucks dragged out and beaten? Its just like at school they were disruptive and should have been dragged out into the street...fucking little pricks.Their rant should have been WHOO HOO LETS KILL BABIES.



Eat shit you stupid bitch, you right wing hacks are the worst of the worst that want nothing but to shit all over the constitution and to force huge government on the nation.

What do you hate so much about freedom? If you want your dream hard right utopia, move to Iran.


----------



## Coyote

mal said:


> "The measure would have banned abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy and *would have required all clinics to be graded as surgical centers, with all doctors required to have admitting privileges at hospitals*. It's estimated that nearly all of the state's clinics wouldn't have been able to meet the new standards."
> 
> Texas abortion bill fails to pass after epic filibuster - U.S. News
> 
> Sorry... But Abortions shouldn't happen after 20 weeks and Abortionists should be Legitimate Doctors.
> 
> This would have Passed... And the Majority of Texans support it.
> 
> If it were the Reverse the Pro-Abortion Left would be Losing their Fucking Minds about "the People's Will" and "Let the Vote happen".
> 
> Such is... Yet another example.
> 
> 
> 
> peace...



How is that necessary or reasonable?

Why are abortion clinics singled out for this but other surgical outpatient service clinics not?


----------



## JakeStarkey

The rightwing statist progressives in Texas failed yesterday.

They will be back.


----------



## koshergrl

They aren't.

Next.

The bill would have protected women and babies. Liberals have spoken..they reject science, safety, and education and they're okay with women dying in order to keep substandard abortion clinics running.

You have legalized backstreet abortions. Congrats.


----------



## Avatar4321

Merchant_of_Meh said:


> Lotsa of posturing and presumptions on what God thinks and what God doesn't think. Does He not work in mysterious ways, if I recall? If I were a believer, I would believe this to be one of those ways.
> 
> As for the OP, I think its quite courageous what she's doing. I personally think abortion is wrong in all cases except the health of the mother, but what I think is even more wrong is that men are deciding this issue.
> 
> That makes zero sense, in all honesty.



God made His view pont fairly clear when He stated "Thou shall not kill" and "It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones."

You say if you were a believer, you would happen to believe that this is one of those mysterious ways. Convenient that if you believed God would be agreeing with your current beliefs. Unfortunately, the Lord doesn't usually work that way. Those that believe are often rebuked and taught to behave in ways that isn't our prefered response.

I don't see how a fillibuster, regardless of the topic, is a courageous thing. It may sometimes be a good and sometimes be a bad thing, but it's not courageous for a politician to do what he/she feels he/she should do.


----------



## National Socialist

Black_Label said:


> AnCapAtheist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Texas abortion bill fails after chaotic stand-off in capital | Fox News
> 
> Why were these communistic little fucks dragged out and beaten? Its just like at school they were disruptive and should have been dragged out into the street...fucking little pricks.Their rant should have been WHOO HOO LETS KILL BABIES.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eat shit you stupid bitch, you right wing hacks are the worst of the worst that want nothing but to shit all over the constitution and to force huge government on the nation.
> 
> What do you hate so much about freedom? If you want your dream hard right utopia, move to Iran.
Click to expand...


Pretty sure murder is against the law shit for brains.


----------



## Avatar4321

NoTeaPartyPleez said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NoTeaPartyPleez said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Not to mention stamina, determination and fortitude.  Something you could only feign on a message board for 30 minutes, and not in front of the Texas Senate for 13 hours, Keyboard Kowboy. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see how great your rack is.
> 
> Do you have anything of substance to offer here?  Or just your usual bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> Your feelings get hurt so easily.....really.  Try manning up.*
Click to expand...


Where on earth were his feelings hurt?

Ill take the fact that you didn't bother providing any substance that you dont have any.


----------



## Black_Label

koshergrl said:


> They aren't.
> 
> Next.
> 
> The bill would have protected women and babies. Liberals have spoken..they reject science, safety, and education and they're okay with women dying in order to keep substandard abortion clinics running.
> 
> You have legalized backstreet abortions. Congrats.



Backstreet abortions are now legal because women's clinics weren't forced to be shut down and huge government attacks on freedom from the far right were stopped? 

This has got to be the dumbest thing I've ever read. Another perfect example of the severe mental illness known as being a right winger.


----------



## koshergrl

In the case of human rights violations, which un regulated abortion clinics engage in daily, it doesn't matter if killing is *legal* under the current regime. It's still considered murder, and the people who commit it are still liable for prosecution.


----------



## Black_Label

AnCapAtheist said:


> Black_Label said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AnCapAtheist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Texas abortion bill fails after chaotic stand-off in capital | Fox News
> 
> Why were these communistic little fucks dragged out and beaten? Its just like at school they were disruptive and should have been dragged out into the street...fucking little pricks.Their rant should have been WHOO HOO LETS KILL BABIES.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eat shit you stupid bitch, you right wing hacks are the worst of the worst that want nothing but to shit all over the constitution and to force huge government on the nation.
> 
> What do you hate so much about freedom? If you want your dream hard right utopia, move to Iran.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pretty sure murder is against the law shit for brains.
Click to expand...


It is, but that doesn't stop the GOP. W and his right wing cronies caused the murder of over 4,000 US troops in Iraq.


----------



## bendog

Stupid and dishonest thread, regardless of how one feels about abortion.


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

mal said:


> "The measure would have banned abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy and would have required all clinics to be graded as surgical centers, with all doctors required to have admitting privileges at hospitals. It's estimated that nearly all of the state's clinics wouldn't have been able to meet the new standards."
> 
> Texas abortion bill fails to pass after epic filibuster - U.S. News
> 
> Sorry... But Abortions shouldn't happen after 20 weeks and Abortionists should be Legitimate Doctors.



Abortion doctors are "legitimate doctors" you moron and 20 weeks is before viability.


----------



## National Socialist

I never said I agreed with Bush or his cronies...Obama has only extended and expanded Bush's policies so.


----------



## koshergrl

Oh look, a lovely mob physically prevents filing:

"Hundreds of jeering protesters helped stop Texas lawmakers from passing  one of the toughest abortion measures in the country, shouting down  Senate Republicans and forcing them to miss a midnight deadline to pass  the bill.
Read more: Texas abortion bill defeated as governor admits Republicans missed deadline after state Sen. Wendy Davis filibusters for 13 hours - NY Daily News
​


----------



## Hyrcanus

Texas abortion bill falls after challenge

I don't like this bill.  Its bad for women and America.

But I also don't like how it was finally stopped, by a loud mob.

We are a Representative Democracy, NOT a Direct Democracy.

That means that we as a society have decided that in order to make decisions for our society, we The People will elect legislators on a regular basis, to vote on laws.

If we don't like how they vote, we unelect them.

This is just and fair.

What happened last night, tramples upon that fair and just process.

A loud and angry mob prevented the democratic process from functioning.

Sure, the result was good....THIS TIME.

What happens when Texas tries to vote on a gay rights or black right's bill, and the halls are filled with loud & angry Neo-Nazis who don't want the bill to pass?

Will that be ok too?


----------



## Avatar4321

NYcarbineer said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> buckeye45_73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chris, before you use God bless, it helps to beleive in God
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It also tends to help to be asking God to bless for things God supports.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As if you would know what that is...
Click to expand...


I'm very much aware of what the things of God are becaue I've studied his word and recieved counsel from Him. All people can know God's will if they seek it.


----------



## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> They aren't.
> 
> Next.
> 
> The bill would have protected women and babies. Liberals have spoken..they reject science, safety, and education and they're okay with women dying in order to keep substandard abortion clinics running.
> 
> You have legalized backstreet abortions. Congrats.



Why are abortion clinics singled out for this but other surgical outpatient service clinics not? Do those patients not need the same protections?


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

Coyote said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> They aren't.
> 
> Next.
> 
> The bill would have protected women and babies. Liberals have spoken..they reject science, safety, and education and they're okay with women dying in order to keep substandard abortion clinics running.
> 
> You have legalized backstreet abortions. Congrats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why are abortion clinics singled out for this but other surgical outpatient service clinics not? Do those patients not need the same protections?
Click to expand...


Because they are trying to make getting an abortion as expensive and difficult as possible for everyone involved under the guise of caring about people they consider to be cold blooded murderers.


of course you already knew that


----------



## NYcarbineer

Avatar4321 said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It also tends to help to be asking God to bless for things God supports.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As if you would know what that is...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm very much aware of what the things of God are becaue I've studied his word and recieved counsel from Him. All people can know God's will if they seek it.
Click to expand...


Well, no, actually what you've studied are words from humans who told you the words came from God,

but you're entitled to that personal belief.


----------



## Avatar4321

Chris said:


> 50% of American women will have an unwanted pregnancy in their lifetime. The Republicans want the government to force these women to bring their pregnancy to term. Unwanted children are much more likely to be abused.
> 
> Therefore, Republicans are pro child abuse.
> 
> And don't tell me an embryo is a human being. If it was, the thousands of frozen embryos in fertility labs in this country would have the right to own guns.



You can pretend a child isn't a human being just because he/she would be in a womb.

You are in favor of killing children out of convenience and have the audacity to say others are abusing for wanting those kids not to be kids and wanting parents to take responsibility for their children?

Also, the bill in question simply prevents abortion after 20 weeks of pregnancy and requires that abortions occur in an ambulatory surgical facility. Neither of which bans abortion, nor prevents a person from killing their child.

Finally, unborn children do have a right to defend themselves. What they lack is the ability to defend themselves. That's why parents have a responsibility to defend their offspring. It's completely horrendous that it's the parents committing these atrocities to their children.

We are setting ourselves up to destroy ourselves.


----------



## Hyrcanus

The vast majority of Texas State Senators voted for this bill, but the mob prevented democracy from taking place.

Not good.


----------



## Avatar4321

RDD_1210 said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> 
> God cannot bless murder. I'm sorry. If you are killing for want and nothing else...I don't even think God could support it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, God is the leading cause of death. He obviously has absolutely no problem with murder. God even has no problem with killing children. So let's stop pretending that abortion is anything that God would be against.
Click to expand...


God has the keys of life and death. That is why he has given mankind strict commandments concerning how life begins and life ends. I cannot imagine that you don't see the difference between the lawful giving and taking of life verses the unlawful giving and taking of life.

The Lord has paid for our lives with His blood. He has enabled every one of us to rise from the dead, no matter what we do. It's his right to determine when and where we come into the world and leave it no matter how much you want to pretend otherwise.

How about one of these days you try to get to know God instead of mocking things you admit you dont know anything about?


----------



## Avatar4321

Chris said:


> 98.5% of all abortions are before 24 weeks, which is the medically accepted minimal time of viability.
> 
> And the vast majority of those are before 12 weeks, when the fetus is about the size of a raspberry.
> 
> God, or nature, is the most prolific abortionist. 30-50% of all pregnancies are naturally terminated before the 12th week.



Than you admit that your outrage and limiting abortion to 20 weeks and requiring them to be done in a surgical facility for the safety of the mother is faux outrage.


----------



## RDD_1210

Avatar4321 said:


> RDD_1210 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> 
> God cannot bless murder. I'm sorry. If you are killing for want and nothing else...I don't even think God could support it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, God is the leading cause of death. He obviously has absolutely no problem with murder. God even has no problem with killing children. So let's stop pretending that abortion is anything that God would be against.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> God has the keys of life and death. That is why he has given mankind strict commandments concerning how life begins and life ends. I cannot imagine that you don't see the difference between the lawful giving and taking of life verses the unlawful giving and taking of life.
> 
> The Lord has paid for our lives with His blood. He has enabled every one of us to rise from the dead, no matter what we do. It's his right to determine when and where we come into the world and leave it no matter how much you want to pretend otherwise.
> 
> How about one of these days you try to get to know God instead of mocking things you admit you dont know anything about?
Click to expand...


I know plenty about God. More than you it seems. God, if he were to exist, would certainly not be against abortion because, if he were to exist, is certainly the greatest cause of death we have ever known.


----------



## JakeStarkey

AnCapAtheist said:


> Black_Label said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AnCapAtheist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Texas abortion bill fails after chaotic stand-off in capital | Fox News
> 
> Why were these communistic little fucks dragged out and beaten? Its just like at school they were disruptive and should have been dragged out into the street...fucking little pricks.Their rant should have been WHOO HOO LETS KILL BABIES.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eat shit you stupid bitch, you right wing hacks are the worst of the worst that want nothing but to shit all over the constitution and to force huge government on the nation.
> 
> What do you hate so much about freedom? If you want your dream hard right utopia, move to Iran.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pretty sure murder is against the law shit for brains.
Click to expand...


Murder is a legal term.  Use the word correctly please.


----------



## JakeStarkey

And koshergrl supports the screamers and yellers in the town hall meetings.

This is called hypocrisy.


----------



## Katzndogz

koshergrl said:


> Oh look, a lovely mob physically prevents filing:
> 
> "Hundreds of jeering protesters helped stop Texas lawmakers from passing  one of the toughest abortion measures in the country, shouting down  Senate Republicans and forcing them to miss a midnight deadline to pass  the bill.
> Read more: Texas abortion bill defeated as governor admits Republicans missed deadline after state Sen. Wendy Davis filibusters for 13 hours - NY Daily News
> ​



So a mob can prevent a vote.  And here I thought interfering with a legislative vote was against the law.   

There will be more bills, and laws will be brought again.  Next time they will know better and take better precautions.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Yup, the protestors acted just like TPM in the town hall meetings.

Either or, folks; either or.


----------



## Hyrcanus

koshergrl said:


> Oh look, a lovely mob physically prevents filing:
> 
> "Hundreds of jeering protesters helped stop Texas lawmakers from passing  one of the toughest abortion measures in the country, shouting down  Senate Republicans and forcing them to miss a midnight deadline to pass  the bill.
> Read more: Texas abortion bill defeated as governor admits Republicans missed deadline after state Sen. Wendy Davis filibusters for 13 hours - NY Daily News
> ​



This was an attack upon democracy and the democratic process.

Next time Neo-Nazis will yell and scream to prevent gay-rights bills from being passed.


----------



## AmyNation

Old school filibuster. I'm pleasantly surprised.


----------



## rightwinger

AmyNation said:


> Old school filibuster. I'm pleasantly surprised.



The "violations" Republicans used to squash it were pretty lame


----------



## Hyrcanus

AmyNation said:


> Old school filibuster. I'm pleasantly surprised.



that's not what killed the bill.

the angry mob did that.


----------



## AmyNation

> Initially, Republicans insisted they had started voting before the midnight deadline and passed the bill that Democrats spent much of Tuesday filibustering. But after official computer records and printouts of the voting record showed the vote took place on Wednesday, and then were changed to read Tuesday, senators convened for a private meeting.



This had me loling. What were they thinking?


----------



## Dot Com

bless her heart  13 *hours* of on-topic discussion. We can't get 1.3 *minutes* of on-topic discussion from the likes of koshergirl & Katzndogz 

Texas abortion bill fails to pass after epic filibuster - U.S. News


----------



## Coyote

AmyNation said:


> Initially, Republicans insisted they had started voting before the midnight deadline and passed the bill that Democrats spent much of Tuesday filibustering. But after official computer records and printouts of the voting record showed the vote took place on Wednesday, and then were changed to read Tuesday, senators convened for a private meeting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This had me loling. What were they thinking?
Click to expand...


*....and then were changed to read Tuesday.....*

Well ain't that interesting...


----------



## JakeStarkey

Coyote said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Initially, Republicans insisted they had started voting before the midnight deadline and passed the bill that Democrats spent much of Tuesday filibustering. But after official computer records and printouts of the voting record showed the vote took place on Wednesday, and then were changed to read Tuesday, senators convened for a private meeting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This had me loling. What were they thinking?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *....and then were changed to read Tuesday.....*
> 
> Well ain't that interesting...
Click to expand...


I am conflicted on the protest in the galleries, BUT . . . the deliberate falsification of the record should lead to sanctions against those who would deliberately falsify the record.


----------



## Dot Com

a victory for women. Why *men* think they can write LEGITIMATE legislation controlling/enslaving *women* is beyond me.  Oops,  oh yeah, there's a lot of xstians  down there


----------



## koshergrl

AnCapAtheist said:


> Yep thanks to her lazy and irresponsible people can continue to murder their unwanted babies. Ain't it grand!?


 
Not only that, but the substandard, filthy, charnel houses that are currently operating with no admitting privileges and no oversight, can continue to abuse, maim and kill women and girls.

Hallelujah! The progressives win again!


----------



## bodecea

Every once in a while, Texas produces some STRONG women.   Like Barbara Jordan....and Ann Richards.


----------



## AmyNation

I think saying the bill would have "enslaved" women is silly. It was an anti-abortion bill, not an enslave women bill.


Even if the bill had passed it would have been struck down and Im sure the reps who voted for it knew that. If they really wanted to effect change they should have purposed a bill that had a shot at passing challenge.


----------



## koshergrl

Actually, it was an abortion clinic oversight bill.

The party of women's rights, science and education voted to keep substandard abbatoirs running, and voted to keep life saving practices out of clinics. Cuz they care so much about women.


----------



## Dot Com

the bill was waaay overly restrictive and the women of Texas spoke. 

PilotOnline.com: national & world News for Hampton Roads, Va., from The Virginian-Pilot


> The law's provision that abortions be performed at surgical centers means only five of Texas' 42 abortion clinics are currently designated to remain in operation.


----------



## Avatar4321

NYcarbineer said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> 
> As if you would know what that is...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm very much aware of what the things of God are becaue I've studied his word and recieved counsel from Him. All people can know God's will if they seek it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, no, actually what you've studied are words from humans who told you the words came from God,
> 
> but you're entitled to that personal belief.
Click to expand...


The fact that you refuse to seek and understand God's will and His word doesn't mean the rest of us do.

The fact that my belief is personal doesn't make it any less true. Quite the opposite, I wouldn't bother with it if it wasn't true.


----------



## koshergrl

Let's hear it for late term abortions, the darling of good progressives everywhere!

"
*Second 'house of horrors' abortion clinic where doctor 'twisted heads off fetus' necks with his bare hands' is investigated in Texas*


Houston doctor Douglas Karpen is accused by four former employees of delivering live babies during third-trimester abortions and killing them
Witnesses said he would either snip their spinal cords, stab a surgical instrument into their heads or twist their heads off with his hands
Texas Department of State Health Services is using in its investigating of the doctor"
*Douglas Karpen: Second 'house of horrors' abortion clinic is investigated in Texas | Mail Online*


"They tell of regularly delivering late-term abortions in which the baby came out alive and was killed by Dr. Karpen, either by &#8220;snipping&#8221; the spinal cord or inserting an instrument into the soft spot on the baby&#8217;s head. However, sometimes, they said, he actually twisted the heads off the live babies with his bare hands. 
The video, together with the public awareness caused by the recent trial of Kermit Gosnell, likely prompted Texas authorities to announce that they have launched  criminal investigations into Dr. Karpen&#8217;s abortion clinics."

Another House of Horrors: Gosnell?s Abortion Counterpart in Texas

Let's hear it for the abortionists who do it for "low income" women:

"
They also recounted occasions when women were so far along with their pregnancy they were actually induced into labor and in two cases their fetus' came out while they were in the bathroom.
Rodriguez described another incident where a patient's fetus fell from her and onto the floor in the clinic's waiting room.
'(Karpen) just picked it up with a Chux and put it in the trash bag,' she said.

According to Rodriguez, as long as patients had the cash, Karpen would perform an abortion well past 24 weeks. A late-term procedure cost between $4,000 and $5,000 at the clinic, they said in the video which was filmed as the clinic was still operating and released on Wednesday."

Douglas Karpen: Second 'house of horrors' abortion clinic is investigated in Texas | Mail Online

Let's hear it for No Accountability! Cuz abortionists are your friends!

"
On Capitol Hill, Rep. Michael C. Burgess, Texas Republican and an obstetrician, has joined Republican colleagues on the House Committee on Energy and Commerce in asking all state health departments to report on their abortion laws and enforcement statistics.
The Gosnell grand jury report showed &#8220;an established pattern of practice&#8221; that violated Pennsylvania state law, such as falsifying data about fetal age before an abortion.


Read more: Authorities investigate abortion clinic in Houston - Washington Times 
​


----------



## Avatar4321

RDD_1210 said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RDD_1210 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, God is the leading cause of death. He obviously has absolutely no problem with murder. God even has no problem with killing children. So let's stop pretending that abortion is anything that God would be against.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> God has the keys of life and death. That is why he has given mankind strict commandments concerning how life begins and life ends. I cannot imagine that you don't see the difference between the lawful giving and taking of life verses the unlawful giving and taking of life.
> 
> The Lord has paid for our lives with His blood. He has enabled every one of us to rise from the dead, no matter what we do. It's his right to determine when and where we come into the world and leave it no matter how much you want to pretend otherwise.
> 
> How about one of these days you try to get to know God instead of mocking things you admit you dont know anything about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know plenty about God. More than you it seems. God, if he were to exist, would certainly not be against abortion because, if he were to exist, is certainly the greatest cause of death we have ever known.
Click to expand...


How do you think you know someone you've never served and who you don't even acknowledge or belief exists?

You don't know anything about God. If you did, you wouldn't claim He didn't exist. 

Again, I hope you someday try to get to know God instead of mocking things you admit you dont know about.


----------



## Dot Com

not gonna work kgrill  The people have spoken. We are a nation of laws NOT the talibanesque restrictions you want to put on women because of your sky pixie.


----------



## Avatar4321

JakeStarkey said:


> Yup, the protestors acted just like TPM in the town hall meetings.
> 
> Either or, folks; either or.



How exactly is peacefully asking qustions and challenging a representative in a press conference/town hall meeting, anything like violently mobbing a legislature during a vote?


----------



## koshergrl

The people didn't speak at all, ghoul.

A mob applied strong-arm bully tactics to circumvent the will of the people.


----------



## Avatar4321

Hyrcanus said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh look, a lovely mob physically prevents filing:
> 
> "Hundreds of jeering protesters helped stop Texas lawmakers from passing  one of the toughest abortion measures in the country, shouting down  Senate Republicans and forcing them to miss a midnight deadline to pass  the bill.
> Read more: Texas abortion bill defeated as governor admits Republicans missed deadline after state Sen. Wendy Davis filibusters for 13 hours - NY Daily News
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was an attack upon democracy and the democratic process.
> 
> Next time Neo-Nazis will yell and scream to prevent gay-rights bills from being passed.
Click to expand...


When was the last time Neo-Nazis or anyone else do this to try to prevent a so called gay rights bill from being passed?


----------



## daveman

hazlnut said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> 
> I heard the bill would have reduced the number of clinics that perform abortions in Texas down to 5. Is that true?
> 
> How many abortions are actually performed after 20 weeks in Texas each year?
> 
> How many of those are done to save the life of the mother or avoid undue suffering on the part of the mother and/or future baby?
> 
> Answer these questions......and maybe reasonable becomes ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great post --
> 
> These are the things the anti-medicine and anti-freedom people DON'T want to talk about.
> 
> The underage incest victim that doesn't come forward (because she doesn't show) until 18 weeks and her mother (ashamed) doesn't get her to a clinic until 20 weeks.
> 
> The anti-women crowd also doesn't like to talk about the fact that we take people off life support (terminate a life) EVERY SINGLE DAY!!
Click to expand...

Reasons given for having abortions in the United States

You're talking about .03% of abortions.  It's the least-commin reason given for abortion.

Nevertheless, in the vanishingly rare cases you're talking about, nothing in the law prevents the girl traveling to an abortion-friendly state.

Much ado about nothing.  Of course, all you have is hyperemotionalism, so what go gonna do?


----------



## koshergrl

It's a good day for misogynists like DC...women will continue to be killed and abused in the name of babykilling.

Win/win! Woo hoo! Throw a big abortion party, death cultists...


----------



## Hyrcanus

Avatar4321 said:


> When was the last time Neo-Nazis or anyone else do this to try to prevent a so called gay rights bill from being passed?



well, now all marginal and extremist groups know it can work.


----------



## Avatar4321

Dot Com said:


> a victory for women. Why *men* think they can write LEGITIMATE legislation controlling/enslaving *women* is beyond me.  Oops,  oh yeah, there's a lot of xstians  down there



Protecting the life of a child doesnt enslav a woman.

And the reason we believe we can write legitimate legislation is we happen to believe we live in A Constitutional Republic where we participate in making laws by electing representatives to establish laws reflecting our viewpoints.

Granted. It could be that we no longer do live in such a Republic. but i havent seen any concrete evidence for that yet.


----------



## koshergrl

daveman said:


> hazlnut said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> 
> I heard the bill would have reduced the number of clinics that perform abortions in Texas down to 5. Is that true?
> 
> How many abortions are actually performed after 20 weeks in Texas each year?
> 
> How many of those are done to save the life of the mother or avoid undue suffering on the part of the mother and/or future baby?
> 
> Answer these questions......and maybe reasonable becomes ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great post --
> 
> These are the things the anti-medicine and anti-freedom people DON'T want to talk about.
> 
> The underage incest victim that doesn't come forward (because she doesn't show) until 18 weeks and her mother (ashamed) doesn't get her to a clinic until 20 weeks.
> 
> The anti-women crowd also doesn't like to talk about the fact that we take people off life support (terminate a life) EVERY SINGLE DAY!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reasons given for having abortions in the United States
> 
> You're talking about .03% of abortions. It's the least-commin reason given for abortion.
> 
> Nevertheless, in the vanishingly rare cases you're talking about, nothing in the law prevents the girl traveling to an abortion-friendly state.
> 
> Much ado about nothing. Of course, all you have is hyperemotionalism, so what go gonna do?
Click to expand...

 
Hazel prefers that underaged incest victims have their uteruses scraped at the behest of their abusers, and returned to them for more fun and games..

Cuz that's how much they love them!


----------



## Dot Com

JakeStarkey said:


> And koshergrl supports the screamers and yellers in the town hall meetings.
> 
> This is called hypocrisy.


she's the hypocrit-in-chief


koshergrl said:


> The people didn't speak at all, ghoul.
> 
> A mob applied strong-arm bully tactics to circumvent the will of the people.



 what are you bringing up the Tea Party town hall meetings for?  That was years ago


----------



## Avatar4321

Dot Com said:


> the bill was waaay overly restrictive and the women of Texas spoke.
> 
> PilotOnline.com: national & world News for Hampton Roads, Va., from The Virginian-Pilot
> 
> 
> 
> The law's provision that abortions be performed at surgical centers means only five of Texas' 42 abortion clinics are currently designated to remain in operation.
Click to expand...


A mob shutting down the legislative process is an odd definition of women speaking.


----------



## daveman

Wildman said:


> *...terminating life support the private decision of a loving family.*
> 
> anyone here ever do that ?
> 
> i did, my Father had a living will that stated NO MEANS OF ARTIFICIAL LIFE SUPPORT, after all the gadgets were taken off him, the  hospital put him on oxygen and IV, he was in a deep coma and not ever expected to revive, it took me three days and a court order to pull the O2 and IV, as they were "ARTIFICIAL MEANS" of keeping his heart beating and breathing, once those things were removed, i sat holding his hand.., in less than 5 minutes he passed on, he was 95 y.o.


God bless you for carrying out your father's wishes.


----------



## National Socialist

Dot Com said:


> a victory for women. Why *men* think they can write LEGITIMATE legislation controlling/enslaving *women* is beyond me.  Oops,  oh yeah, there's a lot of xstians  down there



I am not christian but its not enslaving women its making people be more responsible...abortion is just a way for lazy people and ignorant people to get away with having indiscriminate sex without having to deal with a possible consequence of that action which is a baby. I didn't want a 3rd baby but when my wife got pregnant she had the baby and I love my little girl just like I love her brother and sister...


----------



## daveman

rightwinger said:


> Chris said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Forces of Darkness defeated again.....
> 
> AUSTIN &#8212; A bill that would have given Texas one of the most restrictive abortion laws in the country died amid chaos at the end of the special legislative session overnight.
> 
> After Republicans used strict interpretations of Senate rules to knock Sen. Wendy Davis, D-Fort Worth, off her marathon filibuster intended to block a vote on the measure before the midnight Tuesday deadline, abortion-rights advocates watching the session erupted in a loud protest.
> 
> After a delay of several minutes, it appeared senators voted 19-10 in favor of the bill, almost entirely along party lines. Democrats said the vote came too late, but Republicans declared victory on the matter.
> 
> Shortly after 2 a.m. Wednesday, a very upset Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst finally came to the dais to address the press and chamber on the fate of Senate Bill 5 and the crowd that at times drowned out the proceedings.
> 
> &#8220;Members, the constitutional time for the first called session for the 83rd Legislature has expired,&#8221; Dewhurst said. &#8220;Senate Bill 5 cannot be signed in the presence of the Senate at this time and therefore cannot be enrolled. It&#8217;s been fun, but, uh, see you soon.
> 
> Abortion bill dies in Texas Senate after filibuster, crowd outburst | Dallasnews.com - News for Dallas, Texas - The Dallas Morning News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a momentary defeat for Republicans and they will eventually push this through
> 
> But it is a case of Republicans winning the battle and losing the war. They will appease their anti-abortion faction and win brownie points but they will lose the vote of more and more women. Not just in Texas, but around the country
> 
> It is not just the fact that they are changing the rules and defacto outlawing abortion but the fact that they bullied it through and stomped on the rights of Texas women
> 
> They will pay the price in the long run
Click to expand...


Here we have another good Democrat who insists that women are nothing more than consequence-free, sex-loving genitals.

Do you misogynists really not understand that women are thinking human beings?

Sure doesn't look like.


----------



## Caroljo

Black_Label said:


> aaronleland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pete7469 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I could abide that.
> 
> Moonbats are always whining about "over population".
> 
> It's time they stepped up to the plate and put their welfare checks where their mouth is.
> 
> Hell, for all their shrieking about global warming and CO2 you'd think they'd be willing to stop contributing to the "problem" and hold their breath forever.
> 
> Imagine how much cooler the world would be if bed wetters stopped exhaling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compassionate conservatism. We care about you when you are a fetus. When you are a grown adult... let them die.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The right wingers are a bunch of idiots aren't they?
> 
> "But those poor poor little angels! Every child is a gift from god and abortion is evil!"
> 
> :baby is born:
> 
> "Screw you and your baby you good for nothing leech!  No funds for food! No funds for health care! No funds for housing! No funds for education! Get off of welfare so I don't have to pay for your hellspawn and get a job!
Click to expand...


Wow....THAT was a stupid rant!   And all lies.  Hope you feel better tho!


----------



## Avatar4321

Black_Label said:


> aaronleland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pete7469 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I could abide that.
> 
> Moonbats are always whining about "over population".
> 
> It's time they stepped up to the plate and put their welfare checks where their mouth is.
> 
> Hell, for all their shrieking about global warming and CO2 you'd think they'd be willing to stop contributing to the "problem" and hold their breath forever.
> 
> Imagine how much cooler the world would be if bed wetters stopped exhaling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compassionate conservatism. We care about you when you are a fetus. When you are a grown adult... let them die.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The right wingers are a bunch of idiots aren't they?
> 
> "But those poor poor little angels! Every child is a gift from god and abortion is evil!"
> 
> :baby is born:
> 
> "Screw you and your baby you good for nothing leech!  No funds for food! No funds for health care! No funds for housing! No funds for education! Get off of welfare so I don't have to pay for your hellspawn and get a job!
Click to expand...


Is it possible to have you make an argument that doesnt involve straw men?


----------



## AmyNation

The bill died because Wendy Davis staged an old school filibuster. The onlookers chanted "shame" only during the last 15 min. The republicans reps then changed the time on the vote and pretended they got it in on time, only relenting that they didn't when computer print outs proved their deception.


----------



## Avatar4321

Chris said:


> The Forces of Darkness defeated again.....
> 
> AUSTIN &#8212; A bill that would have given Texas one of the most restrictive abortion laws in the country died amid chaos at the end of the special legislative session overnight.
> 
> After Republicans used strict interpretations of Senate rules to knock Sen. Wendy Davis, D-Fort Worth, off her marathon filibuster intended to block a vote on the measure before the midnight Tuesday deadline, abortion-rights advocates watching the session erupted in a loud protest.
> 
> After a delay of several minutes, it appeared senators voted 19-10 in favor of the bill, almost entirely along party lines. Democrats said the vote came too late, but Republicans declared victory on the matter.
> 
> Shortly after 2 a.m. Wednesday, a very upset Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst finally came to the dais to address the press and chamber on the fate of Senate Bill 5 and the crowd that at times drowned out the proceedings.
> 
> &#8220;Members, the constitutional time for the first called session for the 83rd Legislature has expired,&#8221; Dewhurst said. &#8220;Senate Bill 5 cannot be signed in the presence of the Senate at this time and therefore cannot be enrolled. It&#8217;s been fun, but, uh, see you soon.
> 
> Abortion bill dies in Texas Senate after filibuster, crowd outburst | Dallasnews.com - News for Dallas, Texas - The Dallas Morning News



Who would have ever thought that the "forces of light" would be a mob in favor of unborn children dying?


----------



## Caroljo

AnCapAtheist said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> a victory for women. Why *men* think they can write LEGITIMATE legislation controlling/enslaving *women* is beyond me.  Oops,  oh yeah, there's a lot of xstians  down there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not christian but its not enslaving women its making people be more responsible...abortion is just a way for lazy people and ignorant people to get away with having indiscriminate sex without having to deal with a possible consequence of that action which is a baby. I didn't want a 3rd baby but when my wife got pregnant she had the baby and I love my little girl just like I love her brother and sister...
Click to expand...


I wasn't planning on a 4th child.  I had to have a hysterectomy and my Dr said if we wanted any more we should have one right away.  We had 3 boys, I always said I would have another if I was GUARANTEED a girl, which is impossible, so I opted for the hyst.  The night before the surgery, they always do a pregancy test and mine came back positive!! My Dr actually gave me the option of going ahead with the surgery....which of course I wouldn't do.  Luckily there hadn't been any cancer found so I could carry the baby to term.....I HAD MY GIRL!   Then surgery 6 wks later....I was laid up for a while   But it was worth it all!!


----------



## BlindBoo

Trajan said:


> Chris said:
> 
> 
> 
> AUSTIN, Texas (AP) -- Wearing pink tennis shoes to prepare for nearly 13 consecutive hours of standing, a Democratic Texas state senator on Tuesday began a one-woman filibuster to block a GOP-led effort that would impose stringent new abortion restrictions across the nation's second-most populous state.
> 
> Sen. Wendy Davis, 50, of Fort Worth began the filibuster at 11:18 a.m. CDT Tuesday and passed the halfway mark in her countdown to midnight - the deadline for the end of the 30-day special session.
> 
> Rules stipulate she remain standing, not lean on her desk or take any breaks - even for meals or to use the bathroom. Colleagues removed her chair so she wouldn't sit down by mistake.
> 
> If signed into law, the measures would close almost every abortion clinic in Texas, a state 773 miles wide and 790 miles long with 26 million people. A woman living along the Mexico border or in West Texas would have to drive hundreds of miles to obtain an abortion if the law passes.
> 
> In her opening remarks, Davis said she was "rising on the floor today to humbly give voice to thousands of Texans" and called Republican efforts to pass the bill a "raw abuse of power."
> 
> PilotOnline.com: national & world News for Hampton Roads, Va., from The Virginian-Pilot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought filibusters were ...'bad'...?
> 
> oh wait.....
Click to expand...


The US Senate should adopt the same filibuster rules as Texas.  Make themstand and stay on point if they want to.......


----------



## Avatar4321

BlindBoo said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris said:
> 
> 
> 
> AUSTIN, Texas (AP) -- Wearing pink tennis shoes to prepare for nearly 13 consecutive hours of standing, a Democratic Texas state senator on Tuesday began a one-woman filibuster to block a GOP-led effort that would impose stringent new abortion restrictions across the nation's second-most populous state.
> 
> Sen. Wendy Davis, 50, of Fort Worth began the filibuster at 11:18 a.m. CDT Tuesday and passed the halfway mark in her countdown to midnight - the deadline for the end of the 30-day special session.
> 
> Rules stipulate she remain standing, not lean on her desk or take any breaks - even for meals or to use the bathroom. Colleagues removed her chair so she wouldn't sit down by mistake.
> 
> If signed into law, the measures would close almost every abortion clinic in Texas, a state 773 miles wide and 790 miles long with 26 million people. A woman living along the Mexico border or in West Texas would have to drive hundreds of miles to obtain an abortion if the law passes.
> 
> In her opening remarks, Davis said she was "rising on the floor today to humbly give voice to thousands of Texans" and called Republican efforts to pass the bill a "raw abuse of power."
> 
> PilotOnline.com: national & world News for Hampton Roads, Va., from The Virginian-Pilot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought filibusters were ...'bad'...?
> 
> oh wait.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The US Senate should adopt the same filibuster rules as Texas.  Make themstand and stay on point if they want to.......
Click to expand...


Please. Our elected officials are lazy. That's why they adopted the "silent" fillibuster rules to begin with.


----------



## daveman

JakeStarkey said:


> The Tea Party would do exactly the same thing if they had thought of it and then there would have been a brawl in the balconies.



Yup, I called it:



daveman said:


> According to Fakey, being loud and disruptive is being violent.  All these people should have been arrested.
> 
> *Of course, he'll side with the Democrats.*



He sided with the Dems, and blamed the TEA Party -- who weren't even there.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Dot Com said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> And koshergrl supports the screamers and yellers in the town hall meetings.
> 
> This is called hypocrisy.
> 
> 
> 
> she's the hypocrit-in-chief
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> The people didn't speak at all, ghoul.
> 
> A mob applied strong-arm bully tactics to circumvent the will of the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what are you bringing up the Tea Party town hall meetings for?  That was years ago
Click to expand...


http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...hall-because-of-maryland-democrats-smear.html  Now the TPM hypocrites have abandoned this thread because it demonstrates their hypocrisy.


----------



## daveman

rightwinger said:


> Democracy in action



...unless it's the GOP doing the filibuster, in which case it's a subversion of thewillathapeepul, isn't it?


----------



## Avatar4321

JakeStarkey said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> And koshergrl supports the screamers and yellers in the town hall meetings.
> 
> This is called hypocrisy.
> 
> 
> 
> she's the hypocrit-in-chief
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> The people didn't speak at all, ghoul.
> 
> A mob applied strong-arm bully tactics to circumvent the will of the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what are you bringing up the Tea Party town hall meetings for?  That was years ago
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...hall-because-of-maryland-democrats-smear.html  Now the TPM hypocrites have abandoned this thread because it demonstrates their hypocrisy.
Click to expand...


Since when has it been abandoned? We are still very clear that the government doesnt have the right to prevent people from assembling, speaking, or petitioning their representatives because they "think" they are going to be verbally violent.

For some reason you think a mob shutting down a legislative vote is alright, but that people who are assembling to peacefully question and petition their representatives is somehow lawful and should be defended because you think they are going to be violent despite no evidence to support that.

The only one being a hypocrite here is you my friend. Though as with  most people, you probably wont see that.


----------



## daveman

JakeStarkey said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> And koshergrl supports the screamers and yellers in the town hall meetings.
> 
> This is called hypocrisy.
> 
> 
> 
> she's the hypocrit-in-chief
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> The people didn't speak at all, ghoul.
> 
> A mob applied strong-arm bully tactics to circumvent the will of the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what are you bringing up the Tea Party town hall meetings for?  That was years ago
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...hall-because-of-maryland-democrats-smear.html  Now the TPM hypocrites have abandoned this thread because it demonstrates their hypocrisy.
Click to expand...

Well, it would be hypocrisy, if the TEA Party folks had actually been in the meeting.  But they weren't -- Democrats lied to law enforcement and had their political enemies' rights suppressed.

But of course, you're a flat-out liar, so you think nothing of making this false equivalence.


----------



## JakeStarkey

daveman said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Democracy in action
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...unless it's the GOP doing the filibuster, in which case it's a subversion of thewillathapeepul, isn't it?
Click to expand...


You got a great point.  Either we support everyone's right to protest in such a manner or we forbid everyone from protesting in such a matter.  Doesn't matter if you are TPM or OWS or prolife or prochoice of whatever.


----------



## JakeStarkey

daveman said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> she's the hypocrit-in-chief
> 
> 
> what are you bringing up the Tea Party town hall meetings for?  That was years ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...hall-because-of-maryland-democrats-smear.html  Now the TPM hypocrites have abandoned this thread because it demonstrates their hypocrisy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, it would be hypocrisy, if the TEA Party folks had actually been in the meeting.  But they weren't -- Democrats lied to law enforcement and had their political enemies' rights suppressed.
> 
> But of course, you're a flat-out liar, so you think nothing of making this false equivalence.
Click to expand...


That is merely your unfounded and lying opinion.

And it certainly applies to the disrupted town meetings in 2009 and 2010.


----------



## daveman

JakeStarkey said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Democracy in action
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...unless it's the GOP doing the filibuster, in which case it's a subversion of thewillathapeepul, isn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You got a great point.  Either we support everyone's right to protest in such a manner or we forbid everyone from protesting in such a matter.  Doesn't matter if you are TPM or OWS or prolife or prochoice of whatever.
Click to expand...

You have made it quite clear you're okay with the government suppressing the rights of your political enemies.  It's far too late to change your tune, no matter how insincerely you try.


----------



## buckeye45_73

rightwinger said:


> How long before Rush Limbaugh calls her a slut?



Not until ed schultz calls palin one


----------



## buckeye45_73

JakeStarkey said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Democracy in action
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...unless it's the GOP doing the filibuster, in which case it's a subversion of thewillathapeepul, isn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You got a great point.  Either we support everyone's right to protest in such a manner or we forbid everyone from protesting in such a matter.  Doesn't matter if you are TPM or OWS or prolife or prochoice of whatever.
Click to expand...


Since when do liberals like you support making a law/rule apply to everyone?


----------



## JakeStarkey

buckeye45_73 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...unless it's the GOP doing the filibuster, in which case it's a subversion of thewillathapeepul, isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You got a great point.  Either we support everyone's right to protest in such a manner or we forbid everyone from protesting in such a matter.  Doesn't matter if you are TPM or OWS or prolife or prochoice of whatever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since when do liberals like you support making a law/rule apply to everyone?
Click to expand...


You are not a mainstream American, so  you would not recognize a liberal at all.

Either or, buckeye, either or.


----------



## bendog

Personally, I'd be ok with a blanket ban sometime after the 21st week, so long as the health of the mother was protected.  I'm more libertarian than that, but I realize society needs an ability to police was is acceptable.  Still, it is simply disengenous to say "we're protecting women," when the intent of a bill is simply not not have any abortions.


----------



## koshergrl

bendog said:


> Personally, I'd be ok with a blanket ban sometime after the 21st week, so long as the health of the mother was protected. I'm more libertarian than that, but I realize society needs an ability to police was is acceptable. Still, it is simply disengenous to say "we're protecting women," when the intent of a bill is simply not not have any abortions.


 
The intent of the bill was to stop late term abortions and to require abortionists to have hospital admitting rights...in order to prevent the disgusting conditions that we see over, and over, and over in charnel houses that have ZERO oversight. Where women are abused, and die, because there is no accountability, no record keeping, and no laws that establish a basic standard of care that exists in EVERY OTHER MEDICAL FIELD, including the DENTAL field.


----------



## koshergrl

And it is very telling indeed that the progressive ghouls are "happy" that the bill, which would have closed MANY disgusting abbatoirs that would never, in a million years, pass any sort of objective inspection, will remain open...killing babies and maiming and killing women apace.


----------



## JakeStarkey

> You're already on record as saying you want conservatives muzzled for engaging in actions they haven't yet engaged in.



Link.  Also include where I point out that TPM and lefty activists should not be treated the same.

The gallery last night should have been cleaned out, just as we did our meeting room in the courthouse in 2009.

No one gets to disrupt the public's business, period.


----------



## AmyNation

This is the Politics Forum. You want to whine and flame, take it outside.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-flame-zone/300270-jake-and-dave.html


----------



## JakeStarkey

The point is this.  The TPM does not want to give the same leeway in public dispute to their opponents as they  have done and wish for themselves.  This goes straight to the heart of the public disturbance last night in the Texas legislature.

I don't think anyone should be able to disrupt the public's business.


----------



## koshergrl

You betcha.


----------



## boilermaker55

This sure pisses off the "guys".


----------



## AmyNation

bendog said:


> Personally, I'd be ok with a blanket ban sometime after the 21st week, so long as the health of the mother was protected.  I'm more libertarian than that, but I realize society needs an ability to police was is acceptable.  Still, it is simply disengenous to say "we're protecting women," when the intent of a bill is simply not not have any abortions.



I agree.


I think if they had broken up the bill and tried to pass the 20 week ban by itself it would not have been the drama that it was. They could have passed that and it might have stood up to challenge.

However the silly unnecessary restrictions they tacked on that would have shut down more than 90% of abortion clinics was never going to happen. Of course women and dems would loudly oppose that and like other states that have tired, it would have been easily overturned.


----------



## koshergrl

Yes, it would have shut down the disgusting and dangerous charnel houses, and required that those people who are performing dangerous and invasive procedures on women and girls be required to have the authority to admit those women and girls to the hospital, if need be.

Unthinkable! How dare anyone suggest shutting down dangerous, infectious, unsanitary and illegal abortion operations!!! The left fought hard to make those legal!


----------



## koshergrl

So thank you, progressive mob. Against the will of the people, you have insured that abortions, performed by unlicensed, unprofessional butchers, may continue in disgusting clinics that would never in a million years be able to pass a health inspection.

Well done.


----------



## francoHFW

Thank god next year ALL people will get free birth control under O-care, and maybe they'll only need 5 places. Oh wait, the dumbazz Pubs there aren't allowing Medicaid expansion. People won't like that LOL


----------



## bendog

AmyNation said:


> bendog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, I'd be ok with a blanket ban sometime after the 21st week, so long as the health of the mother was protected.  I'm more libertarian than that, but I realize society needs an ability to police was is acceptable.  Still, it is simply disengenous to say "we're protecting women," when the intent of a bill is simply not not have any abortions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree.
> 
> 
> I think if they had broken up the bill and tried to pass the 20 week ban by itself it would not have been the drama that it was. They could have passed that and it might have stood up to challenge.
> 
> However the silly unnecessary restrictions they tacked on that would have shut down more than 90% of abortion clinics was never going to happen. Of course women and dems would loudly oppose that and like other states that have tired, it would have been easily overturned.
Click to expand...


I dunno.  Here in Miss, the legislature passed a similar bill that would have shut down the last remaining abortion clinic.  It's been enjoined, but the legal status is not certain.  Since or genius tea party governer actually said the intent was to end abortions in the state, I hope the 5th Circuit will uphold the injunction.

Koshergirl, if the real intent is to protect the safety of women getting abortions, the state can pass laws requiring certification and inspection of clinics.  Doctors do the procedurs.  State medical associations have professional standards.  Of course malpractice occurs in some instances regardless of the proedure being provided.  I suppose you could make it nearly impossible to get knee transplants to get a higher rate of success, but that wouldn't really help in terms of accessing healthcare.  But, I understand you seem to be opposed to any abortion.


----------



## AmyNation

Mississippi, North Dakota and Alabama are neck deep in lawsuits (and injunctions )challenging the state because of the admitting privileges nonsense. From everything I've read, the clinics have a very good case and I don't doubt the laws will eventually be ruled unconstitutional.


----------



## koshergrl

Women don't have a right to abortions performed by real doctors.

They only deserve butchers who aren't allow to perform their particularly vile form of "medicine" in any respectable establishment.


----------



## AmyNation

Was there something in the Texas Bill about raising the medical qualifications of abotion doctors?


----------



## koshergrl

About requiring they have admitting rights to local hospitals.

Which means they have to be qualified to practice medicine in area hospitals.

Most abortionists today have crap credentials and scary backgrounds, and respectable hospitals don't even want them crossing the threshhold.


----------



## Avatar4321

JakeStarkey said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...hall-because-of-maryland-democrats-smear.html  Now the TPM hypocrites have abandoned this thread because it demonstrates their hypocrisy.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it would be hypocrisy, if the TEA Party folks had actually been in the meeting.  But they weren't -- Democrats lied to law enforcement and had their political enemies' rights suppressed.
> 
> But of course, you're a flat-out liar, so you think nothing of making this false equivalence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is merely your unfounded and lying opinion.
> 
> And it certainly applies to the disrupted town meetings in 2009 and 2010.
Click to expand...


They were banned by the government from attending the meeting. That's neither unfounded, lying, nor an opinion. That's just plain fact.


----------



## AmyNation

Having admitting privledges is not based on medical qualifications. If it was I wouldn't object to the requirement.

Hospitials are not required to give AP to all qualified doctors. Each hospital has its own policy. Religious hospitals refuse doctors who don't align with their core values, some hospitals require the doctor be a graduate of their medical program, a member of a specific local doctors organization, or only grant them to doctors who are on the faculty. Many hospitals refuse abortion doctors because they fear protestors and simply don't want their hospital to be remotely linked to controversial issues.

So a doctor who performs abortions can be highly qualified and not be granted AP to any of the hospitals within the specified radius of his clinic. Which is exactly what is happening.


----------



## koshergrl

Yes, it is based on medical qualifications, as applied by individual hospitals.

Why are you so committed to having doctors that community hospitals won't accept, provide this risky service to vulnerable women, in substandard conditions?


----------



## koshergrl

Do you have such a low opinion of abortion clinicians (many aren't even MDs) that you don't think they have the ability to be accepted by local clinics?

Are you so adverse to raising the standard a little, or do you just think these patients are undeserving of the same standard of care that is provided to your average dental patient?


----------



## AmyNation

I'm sorry, perhaps I should have said, its not based solely on medical qualifications. Of course you have to be a doctor to request AP.

If you're willing to force hospitals including christian hospitals to give admitting privileges to all medically qualified doctors who apply, than I think I'd agree its fine to have that as a requirement.


----------



## deltex1

Wendy still has a great rack...otherwise she sucks....


----------



## koshergrl

AmyNation said:


> I'm sorry, perhaps I should have said, its not based solely on medical qualifications. Of course you have to be a doctor to request AP.
> 
> If you're willing to force hospitals including christian hospitals to give admitting privileges to all medically qualified doctors who apply, than I think I'd agree its fine to have that as a requirement.


 
Hm. Do we force all hospitals to give admitting privileges to orthopedic surgeons? To heart surgeons? To brain surgeons?

Nope. See here's the thing...doctors have to compete to get admitting privileges...and that includes abortion doctors.

And here's the other thing...the reason most of them don't have admitting privileges isn't because they're abortionists...it's because they aren't doctors in good standing.

The abortion industry has always attracted the quacks, the perverts, and the monsters.

And refusing to require them to adhere to the same policies and meet the same standards that everyone else in the medical community have to adhere to pretty much guarantees they will always have more than their share of quacks, perverts and monsters...

Thus...women, who should be receiving the best of medical care, will continue to die of sepsis, hemorrhage, perforated bowels, etc.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Avatar4321 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it would be hypocrisy, if the TEA Party folks had actually been in the meeting.  But they weren't -- Democrats lied to law enforcement and had their political enemies' rights suppressed.
> 
> But of course, you're a flat-out liar, so you think nothing of making this false equivalence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is merely your unfounded and lying opinion.
> 
> And it certainly applies to the disrupted town meetings in 2009 and 2010.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were banned by the government from attending the meeting. That's neither unfounded, lying, nor an opinion. That's just plain fact.
Click to expand...


Yup, because they had reason to believe the group would disrupt the public's business.

Avatar: do you believe that citizens have the right to yell and scream in a public tax-supported meeting to communicate their dislike with whatever the public policy is?


----------



## AmyNation

Hospitals grant admitting privileges because they want to make money. 

An OBGYN will bring in money because her patients will need the hospital at the end of their pregnancy. Every type of doctor you listed will bring in money because they will absolutely need the hospital.  Abortion is not surgery, and a _typical _abortion will never need to visit the local hospital. There is no incentive for the hospital to grant AP to abortion doctors because the cost(protestors, loss of benefactors, etc) far exceeds the rare cases where a woman who seeks an abortion will need to be treated in the hospital and would like to be treated by the same doctor who performed her abortion.

Also, it's nice to see you totally ignore the large list of reasons I provided as to why hospitals don't grant abortion doctors AP and solely focus on what you consider "the real reason".

What are established clinics supposed to do when the only hospitals in the required radius are Christian hospitals? Or hospitals that have any of the rules and requirements I listed? It then becomes * an impossible requiremnt* and they are forced to close. Which is, lets be honest, the whole reason for the law.


----------



## koshergrl

AmyNation said:


> Hospitals grant admitting privileges because they want to make money.
> 
> An OBGYN will bring in money because her patients will need the hospital at the end of their pregnancy. Every type of doctor you listed will bring in money because they will absolutely need the hospital. Abortion is not surgery, and a _typical _abortion will never need to visit the local hospital. There is no incentive for the hospital to grant AP to abortion doctors because the cost(protestors, loss of benefactors, etc) far exceeds the rare cases where a woman who seeks an abortion will need to be treated in the hospital and would like to be treated by the same doctor who performed her abortion.
> 
> Also, it's nice to see you totally ignore the large list of reasons I provided as to why hospitals don't grant abortion doctors AP and solely focus on what you consider "the real reason".
> 
> What are established clinics supposed to do when the only hospitals in the required radius are Christian hospitals? Or hospitals that have any of the rules and requirements I listed? It then becomes *an impossible requiremnt* and they are forced to close. Which is, lets be honest, the whole reason for the law.


 
If hospitals granted admitting privileges just to make money, then they would be welcoming abortionists with open arms.

I ignored your reasons because they are foolish imaginings that have nothing to do with anything. Progressives insist on assigning "motives" to organizations and people, and justify pro-criminal, pro-death policies based on what THEY claim motivates OTHERS.

Try to look past the emotion to the reality of the issue. You don't eliminate jails because there are too many murderers. You don't remove laws that protect people because there are people who break those laws.

And you don't protect vulnerable women by refusing to provide oversight of abortion clinics, based on the fact that if there was any oversight, abortion clinics would be forced to close. That's the point. You get rid of the chaff and you force the industry to abide by the same regulations that everybody else abides by. That's what's known as *reform*.

You people are supporting the most vile practices the world has ever seen...and you squawk about what it "used" to be like. It's much, much worse than it ever was...and you abortion acolytes continue to fight to make it ever worse.


----------



## AmyNation

Mississippi's sole abortion clinic faces fresh legal fight to stay open

Ohio Shows How an 'Admitting Privileges' Requirement Can Become a Backdoor Abortion Ban

Getting local hospital privileges may be difficult for abortion clinic doctors | al.com

Federal Court Blocks Mississippi Admitting Privileges Law

Here's a few articles that talk about reasons obtaining admitting privileges is so very hard for abortion doctors, including statements from several hospitals giving some of the reasons I listed as to why they won't grant AP to abortion providers.


----------



## koshergrl

Mississippi's sole abortion clinic faces fresh legal fight to stay open - Five hospitals allowed them to apply, interestingly enough, the article does NOT state why they were denied. 

Ohio Shows How an 'Admitting Privileges' Requirement Can Become a Backdoor Abortion Ban - 

"...the hospital is associated with a university, any sign of working with an abortion provider is tantamount to taxpayer funding of abortion. &#8220;Our problem was, and is, that the transfer agreement was signed by the University of Toledo, a publicly funded university, and is totally tax payer funded,&#8221; Coats told the _Independent Collegian_. &#8220;We know if the transfer agreement did not exist then this abortion mill would not be able to legally operate &#8230;. Ohio law prohibits state tax dollars from paying for abortion and it is against the law for publicly funded state hospitals to perform non-therapeutic abortions.&#8221; So that hospital won't grant them admitting rights because it's funded by tax dollars. The article fudges this by saying the hospital "likely" wouldn't be the location of any abortions...PROBABLY. Which means that they COULD be the location of abortion...in which case the hospital is legally restricted from allowing them admitting privileges.


----------



## koshergrl

This blog Getting local hospital privileges may be difficult for abortion clinic doctors | al.com states that "UAB requires that physicians be a faculty member of the UAB School of Medicine in order to be credentialed and able to admit a patient to UAB Hospital," UAB Hospital interim CEO Anthony Patterson said in a statement. "No formal relationships exist with outside facilities that allow non-UAB School of Medicine faculty to admit a patient to UAB Hospital." That is their policy, and it is their right to adhere to it.

Essentially, you want to force hospitals to accept abortionists of whatever capability, regardless of where the funding comes from...and if you can't do that, then you insist that there be no oversight at all, and abortion clinics just operate in their own little universe, separate from the rest of the world, and overseen only by their own corrupt and essentially non-existent officials.

If you are going to insist that abortion be available for all, then the abortion bloc needs to get off its fat ass and bring their standards up. Perhaps they need to build their own hospitals. They have the money to do it.

But they won't want to do that, because that (again) requires real oversight, and carefully monitored funding, and a degree of professionalism and medically safe practices that, quite honestly, nobody who supports the abortion industry is interested in seeing applied.


----------



## AmyNation

I don't want to force hospitals to grant admitting privileges. I also don't want to close 90% of all abortion providers because of the religious or moral beliefs of others.

I would be more than happy with a provision that actually requires higher standards for abortion doctors. The AP bill did not do that.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Avatar4321 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it would be hypocrisy, if the TEA Party folks had actually been in the meeting.  But they weren't -- Democrats lied to law enforcement and had their political enemies' rights suppressed.
> 
> But of course, you're a flat-out liar, so you think nothing of making this false equivalence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is merely your unfounded and lying opinion.
> 
> And it certainly applies to the disrupted town meetings in 2009 and 2010.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were banned by the government from attending the meeting. That's neither unfounded, lying, nor an opinion. That's just plain fact.
Click to expand...


Yes, they were, for reason apparently.

Avatar, stay on track.  Should government permit people to attend if there is prior reason to believe they will intentionally disrupt the meeting?


----------



## Hyrcanus

All abortion clinics should be run by licensed Physicians, just like any other medical clinic.

What more should be asked of them?


----------



## AmyNation

Hyrcanus said:


> All abortion clinics should be run by licensed Physicians, just like any other medical clinic.
> 
> What more should be asked of them?



I think that's valid.


----------



## Lakhota

I hope Wendy Davis runs for governor of Texas.  Apparently she is considering it.


----------



## thereisnospoon

Dot Com said:


> heard her on the radio today. godbless her for standing up for women's rights.



She wasn't standing up for women's rights. She was making a political plea to her constituency.
I thought you libs despised filibusters and obstruction?


----------



## thereisnospoon

bodecea said:


> OriginalShroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> Go Wendy!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you are now fine with one person preventing the majority from voting on a bill?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not if it's against the law.   If it IS okay by legal procedures, then she can rock on!
Click to expand...


So it is then fine for GOP lawmakers to stop the liberal agenda...as long as they follow the law?


----------



## AmyNation

She showed up and talked without pause and on topic for 10+ hours. If a lawmaker wants to filibuster, as long as they do it old school. I'm cool with it.


----------



## earlycuyler

Chris said:


> AUSTIN, Texas (AP) -- Wearing pink tennis shoes to prepare for nearly 13 consecutive hours of standing, a Democratic Texas state senator on Tuesday began a one-woman filibuster to block a GOP-led effort that would impose stringent new abortion restrictions across the nation's second-most populous state.
> 
> Sen. Wendy Davis, 50, of Fort Worth began the filibuster at 11:18 a.m. CDT Tuesday and passed the halfway mark in her countdown to midnight - the deadline for the end of the 30-day special session.
> 
> Rules stipulate she remain standing, not lean on her desk or take any breaks - even for meals or to use the bathroom. Colleagues removed her chair so she wouldn't sit down by mistake.
> 
> If signed into law, the measures would close almost every abortion clinic in Texas, a state 773 miles wide and 790 miles long with 26 million people. A woman living along the Mexico border or in West Texas would have to drive hundreds of miles to obtain an abortion if the law passes.
> 
> In her opening remarks, Davis said she was "rising on the floor today to humbly give voice to thousands of Texans" and called Republican efforts to pass the bill a "raw abuse of power."
> 
> PilotOnline.com: national & world News for Hampton Roads, Va., from The Virginian-Pilot



Wow. What a racist.


----------



## daveman

JakeStarkey said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is merely your unfounded and lying opinion.
> 
> And it certainly applies to the disrupted town meetings in 2009 and 2010.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were banned by the government from attending the meeting. That's neither unfounded, lying, nor an opinion. That's just plain fact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, they were, for reason apparently.
Click to expand...

Democrats lying may be sufficient reason to you, but it's not for normal people.

Comrade.


JakeStarkey said:


> Avatar, stay on track.  Should government permit people to attend if there is prior reason to believe they will intentionally disrupt the meeting?


There is reason to believe that you will exceed the speed limit tomorrow.  You need to take a check for $278 to the courthouse tomorrow before close of business.

The accusation is enough to convict you.  Pay it tomorrow or a bench warrant will be issued.


----------



## daveman

Lakhota said:


> I hope Wendy Davis runs for governor of Texas.  Apparently she is considering it.



Wouldn't it be easier to just build a bonfire with the money her campaign would cost?


----------



## koshergrl

Hyrcanus said:


> All abortion clinics should be run by licensed Physicians, just like any other medical clinic.
> 
> What more should be asked of them?



They should be able to legally treat women in a hospital if they need to.

Because the truth is, women who get abortions often need to be hospitalized...and aren't, because the abortionists have no standing in real hospitals.

And those pukes should be drummed out of business, and replaced with real medical personnel. Who actually do care about providing quality service in the safest conditions.


----------



## koshergrl

AmyNation said:


> I don't want to force hospitals to grant admitting privileges. I also don't want to close 90% of all abortion providers because of the religious or moral beliefs of others.
> 
> I would be more than happy with a provision that actually requires higher standards for abortion doctors. The AP bill did not do that.



You would be closing them because they don't provide quality care, and they are not qualified or have the facilities to practice real medicine.

If you don't like that 90 percent of abortion facilities would be shut down if oversight is applied, perhaps your concern should be for the women who are suffering in those substandard clinics, rather than for the quacks who are getting rich off them. A woman is safer driving 500 miles to get an abortion from a qualified abortionist who can treat her in a real medical facility than she is walking to the neighborhood legal backalley abortion sewer.


----------



## koshergrl

And if she can't drive 500 miles, then she is safer having the baby.

What it comes down to is this..progressives think it's good and right that women risk their lives and die, in order to make sure that everybody has an abortion clinic in their backyard.

They don't care how dangerous it is. It's all about location location location.


----------



## NYcarbineer

OriginalShroom said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> Go Wendy!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you are now fine with one person preventing the majority from voting on a bill?
Click to expand...


Like you were, when the circumstances were different?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/7006952-post25.html

lol, too funny.


----------



## koshergrl

I don't believe Shroom said anything about being against her right to do it.


----------



## g5000

Looks like Davis succeeded.


----------



## daveman

koshergrl said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want to force hospitals to grant admitting privileges. I also don't want to close 90% of all abortion providers because of the religious or moral beliefs of others.
> 
> I would be more than happy with a provision that actually requires higher standards for abortion doctors. The AP bill did not do that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You would be closing them because they don't provide quality care, and they are not qualified or have the facilities to practice real medicine.
> 
> If you don't like that 90 percent of abortion facilities would be shut down if oversight is applied, perhaps your concern should be for the women who are suffering in those substandard clinics, rather than for the quacks who are getting rich off them. A woman is safer driving 500 miles to get an abortion from a qualified abortionist who can treat her in a real medical facility than she is walking to the neighborhood legal backalley abortion sewer.
Click to expand...

The moral of the story is that pro-aborts only want abortion to be legal.  They don't care if it's safe, and they sure as hell don't want it to be rare.

This is indisputable.


----------



## koshergrl

I think it was more the screaming shrieking mob that succeeded.


----------



## dilloduck

g5000 said:


> Looks like Davis succeeded.



Temporarily


----------



## koshergrl

daveman said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want to force hospitals to grant admitting privileges. I also don't want to close 90% of all abortion providers because of the religious or moral beliefs of others.
> 
> I would be more than happy with a provision that actually requires higher standards for abortion doctors. The AP bill did not do that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You would be closing them because they don't provide quality care, and they are not qualified or have the facilities to practice real medicine.
> 
> If you don't like that 90 percent of abortion facilities would be shut down if oversight is applied, perhaps your concern should be for the women who are suffering in those substandard clinics, rather than for the quacks who are getting rich off them. A woman is safer driving 500 miles to get an abortion from a qualified abortionist who can treat her in a real medical facility than she is walking to the neighborhood legal backalley abortion sewer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The moral of the story is that pro-aborts only want abortion to be legal.  They don't care if it's safe, and they sure as hell don't want it to be rare.
> 
> This is indisputable.
Click to expand...


Not only do they not want it to be rare..they are willing to compromise the health and lives of women in order to ensure that it is common.


----------



## JakeStarkey

daveman said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were banned by the government from attending the meeting. That's neither unfounded, lying, nor an opinion. That's just plain fact.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they were, for reason apparently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Democrats lying may be sufficient reason to you, but it's not for normal people.
> 
> Comrade.
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Avatar, stay on track.  Should government permit people to attend if there is prior reason to believe they will intentionally disrupt the meeting?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is reason to believe that you will exceed the speed limit tomorrow.  You need to take a check for $278 to the courthouse tomorrow before close of business.
> 
> The accusation is enough to convict you.  Pay it tomorrow or a bench warrant will be issued.
Click to expand...


False analogy.  Next.

Should government permit people to attend if there is prior reason to believe they will intentionally disrupt the meeting?

Right now, both Avatar and daveman have admitted by refusing to answer the question they believe the TPM should have rights of public outbursts that no one else should.

Addendum: daveman has now said that people should attend until they act then removed, or words to that effect.


----------



## AmyNation

koshergrl said:


> Hyrcanus said:
> 
> 
> 
> All abortion clinics should be run by licensed Physicians, just like any other medical clinic.
> 
> What more should be asked of them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They should be able to legally treat women in a hospital if they need to.
> 
> Because the truth is, *women who get abortions often need to be hospitalized.*..and aren't, because the abortionists have no standing in real hospitals.
> 
> And those pukes should be drummed out of business, and replaced with real medical personnel. Who actually do care about providing quality service in the safest conditions.
Click to expand...


Proof?

There are around a million abortions in the US every year, "often" is a lot. Should be easy to prove


----------



## whitehall

No medical oversight of abortion clinics in the great state of Texas and liberal men can keep holding women in bondage with threats of mental and physical harm by hiring cheap killers like Gosnell's horror house to kill their unborn. Real victory lefties. Y'all should be proud.


----------



## koshergrl

It's not easy to prove because the abortion industry doesn't keep records.

And smug pro-abortion ideologues like Amy want to keep it that way. Let the women die alone...but by golly, don't you dare oversee the abortionists!


----------



## percysunshine

dilloduck said:


> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like Davis succeeded.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Temporarily
Click to expand...


Office of the Governor Rick Perry - [Press Release] Gov. Perry Calls Special Session to Begin July 1

" We will not allow the breakdown of decorum and decency to prevent us from doing what the people of this state hired us to do."


----------



## koshergrl

whitehall said:


> No medical oversight of abortion clinics in the great state of Texas and liberal men can keep holding women in bondage with threats of mental and physical harm by hiring cheap killers like Gosnell's horror house to kill their unborn. Real victory lefties. Y'all should be proud.



They are. As evidenced by Amy's smirking "should be easy to prove then" comment.

Cute. She thinks it's funny that women are killed by butchers, but nobody can prove it because of the lax oversight, and the culture of hiding abortion crimes and calling it "confidentiality".


----------



## JakeStarkey

The court may very well state before the legislature begins Monday that it will, of course, suspend action of the law until it can be reviewed by competent authority.


----------



## AmyNation

koshergrl said:


> It's not easy to prove because the abortion industry doesn't keep records.
> 
> And smug pro-abortion ideologues like Amy want to keep it that way. Let the women die alone...but by golly, don't you dare oversee the abortionists!



Belief despite the lack of evidence. You've got it in spades


----------



## daveman

JakeStarkey said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they were, for reason apparently.
> 
> 
> 
> Democrats lying may be sufficient reason to you, but it's not for normal people.
> 
> Comrade.
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Avatar, stay on track.  Should government permit people to attend if there is prior reason to believe they will intentionally disrupt the meeting?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is reason to believe that you will exceed the speed limit tomorrow.  You need to take a check for $278 to the courthouse tomorrow before close of business.
> 
> The accusation is enough to convict you.  Pay it tomorrow or a bench warrant will be issued.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> False analogy.  Next.
> 
> Should government permit people to attend if there is prior reason to believe they will intentionally disrupt the meeting?
> 
> Right now, both Avatar and daveman have admitted by refusing to answer the question they believe the TPM should have rights of public outbursts that no one else should.
> 
> Addendum: daveman has now said that people should attend until they act then removed, or words to that effect.
Click to expand...

Of course I said that, because it's the right answer.

You want to punish people for acts they have not yet committed.

That's unconstitutional and un-American.  

Comrade.


----------



## JakeStarkey

> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Democrats lying may be sufficient reason to you, but it's not for normal people.
> 
> Comrade.
> 
> There is reason to believe that you will exceed the speed limit tomorrow.  You need to take a check for $278 to the courthouse tomorrow before close of business.
> 
> The accusation is enough to convict you.  Pay it tomorrow or a bench warrant will be issued.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> False analogy.  Next.
> 
> Should government permit people to attend if there is prior reason to believe they will intentionally disrupt the meeting?
> 
> Right now, both Avatar and daveman have admitted by refusing to answer the question they believe the TPM should have rights of public outbursts that no one else should.
> 
> Addendum: daveman has now said that people should attend until they act then removed, or words to that effect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ,
> Of course I said that, because it's the right answer.
Click to expand...


And, if intelligence says such people intend to disrupt, then they will not attend.  Simple.


----------



## daveman

JakeStarkey said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> False analogy.  Next.
> 
> Should government permit people to attend if there is prior reason to believe they will intentionally disrupt the meeting?
> 
> Right now, both Avatar and daveman have admitted by refusing to answer the question they believe the TPM should have rights of public outbursts that no one else should.
> 
> Addendum: daveman has now said that people should attend until they act then removed, or words to that effect.
> 
> 
> 
> ,
> Of course I said that, because it's the right answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And, if intelligence says such people intend to disrupt, then they will not attend.  Simple.
Click to expand...

Democrats have nothing to do with intelligence.

Better pay your fine tomorrow, Comrade.  You've said it yourself:  The accusation is sufficient to convict and punish.  Your ridiculous cries of "false analogy" are meaningless, because it's perfectly accurate.

Please move to the totalitarian progressive nation of your choosing.  Stop trying to turn free America into a prog shithole.


----------



## JakeStarkey

> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ,
> Of course I said that, because it's the right answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, if intelligence says such people intend to disrupt, then they will not attend.  Simple.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Democrats have nothing to do with intelligence.
> 
> You've said it yourself:  The accusation is sufficient to convict and punish.
Click to expand...


Prior knowledge to prevent criminal activity is appropriate.


----------



## koshergrl

AmyNation said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not easy to prove because the abortion industry doesn't keep records.
> 
> And smug pro-abortion ideologues like Amy want to keep it that way. Let the women die alone...but by golly, don't you dare oversee the abortionists!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Belief despite the lack of evidence. You've got it in spades
Click to expand...


Yup. Smug contentment that women's deaths are conveniently unreported due to lack of oversight.

Adorable.

"Prove it" mentality is so indicative of a true caring nature and a desire to see women given the level of care they deserve.

As I've said repeatedly..these people don't mind that women die, and they will continue to block all efforts to prevent abortion deaths.


----------



## Avatar4321

JakeStarkey said:


> False analogy.  Next.
> 
> Should government permit people to attend if there is prior reason to believe they will intentionally disrupt the meeting?
> 
> Right now, both Avatar and daveman have admitted by refusing to answer the question they believe the TPM should have rights of public outbursts that no one else should.
> 
> Addendum: daveman has now said that people should attend until they act then removed, or words to that effect.



Nothing false about his analogy. I don't see how you can honestly claim there is. If someone is banned from assembling, speaking, and petitioning for something someone else thinks they are going to do, they have had their constitutional rights violated.

Also I dont see how you cna honestly claimed i havent addressed the question when Ive repeatedly told you that if they do anything to disrupt a meeting throw them out. You simply dont have the right to preemptively prevent them from attending. Especially when there is no previous behavior to justify it.

Im disappointed in you Jake. I expect more honesty from you.


----------



## Avatar4321

JakeStarkey said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, if intelligence says such people intend to disrupt, then they will not attend.  Simple.
> 
> 
> 
> Democrats have nothing to do with intelligence.
> 
> You've said it yourself:  The accusation is sufficient to convict and punish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Prior knowledge to prevent criminal activity is appropriate.
Click to expand...


Except you are the one advocating the criminal activity by supporting the governments efforts to strip a group of people of their Constitutional rights becaue you think they should be.


----------



## Avatar4321

koshergrl said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not easy to prove because the abortion industry doesn't keep records.
> 
> And smug pro-abortion ideologues like Amy want to keep it that way. Let the women die alone...but by golly, don't you dare oversee the abortionists!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Belief despite the lack of evidence. You've got it in spades
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yup. Smug contentment that women's deaths are conveniently unreported due to lack of oversight.
> 
> Adorable.
> 
> "Prove it" mentality is so indicative of a true caring nature and a desire to see women given the level of care they deserve.
> 
> As I've said repeatedly..these people don't mind that women die, and they will continue to block all efforts to prevent abortion deaths.
Click to expand...


I would think the Gosnell trial and the guy down in Texas should be plenty of evidence that we need some more oversight.


----------



## AmyNation

You made a statement about the amount of women who need hospitalization. It's not unreasonable for me to ask that you back that up with some proof.

You can't, because you know it's false. 

Abortion in the United States | Infoplease.com

Facts on Induced Abortion in the United States

Here's some links that *prove* your statement false. But, I know, it's a _conspiracy_! "They" are hiding those hundreds of thousands of women (the number you need to make your statment true) you claim get botched abortions each year.

Sneaking aren't "they".


----------



## AmyNation

Avatar4321 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> Belief despite the lack of evidence. You've got it in spades
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup. Smug contentment that women's deaths are conveniently unreported due to lack of oversight.
> 
> Adorable.
> 
> "Prove it" mentality is so indicative of a true caring nature and a desire to see women given the level of care they deserve.
> 
> As I've said repeatedly..these people don't mind that women die, and they will continue to block all efforts to prevent abortion deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would think the Gosnell trial and the guy down in Texas should be plenty of evidence that we need some more oversight.
Click to expand...


It is for me.


There was no added oversight in this bill.


----------



## koshergrl

Actually, there was.

You just don't want it.

"
Thirty years later, the best available evidence now contradicts the 
&#8220;established medical fact&#8221; relied upon
in Roe. Recent analyses of large 
medical databases linked to death certificates have now shown that 
when mortality rates associated with abortion and childbirth are 
examined using a single uniform standard, significantly higher 
mortality rates are associa
ted with abortion (see Table 1).
7
,
8
These 
record linkage studies have demonstrated that pregnancy
-
associated 
deaths are actually two to four times higher for aborting women 
compared to delivering women."

http://www.afterabortion.org/pdf/DeathsAssocWithAbortionJCHLP.pdf


----------



## koshergrl

"On March 1, 1989, Erica Richardson, a sixteen-year-old Maryland resident, bled to death from a uterine perforation only hours after 
undergoing an abortion.  During the next five months, two other 
residents of Maryland, Gladys Estanislao and Debra Gray, also died 
from abortion complications.
17
Surprisingly, none of these women were ever granted the smallest of recognitions&#8212;
becoming a statistic.  The official statistics issued by Maryland public health officials showed that 
there were no deaths from abortion in 1989.  Indeed, Maryland onlyreported a single abortion-related death for the entire decade of 1980 to1989.
18
Actually, there was a fourth woman who died as a result of a 1989 
abortion in Maryland.  In this case, Susanne Logan fell into a coma during her abortion and awoke four months later as a quadriplegic,unable to talk.  She survived for three years, dying in 1992 at the age of twenty-four.
19
Since Susanne&#8217;s death did not occur within forty-five days of her abortion, it has not been counted in any of the official abortion mortality statistics."

Imagine that.
http://www.afterabortion.org/pdf/DeathsAssocWithAbortionJCHLP.pdf


----------



## AmyNation

No trolling the Politics Forum.


----------



## koshergrl

The CDC reports that maternal death (particularly abortion deaths) are underreported 30-150 percent.

Which means it's probably something like 300-500 percent.

http://afterabortion.org/pdf/CDCResponsetoWeberReAbortionStats-Gerberding Reply.pdf


----------



## koshergrl

Who's trolling? You asked. I provided the stats.


----------



## Noomi

TemplarKormac said:


> Abortion is murder. If not done for the sake of health, it is done just because she can. What about that isn't appalling to you?



Funny, but women don't get arrested for having abortions. Abortion is legal and therefore it can't be murder. When will you accept that?


----------



## Hyrcanus

All abortion clinics should be licensed, staffed by a doctor, and routinely inspected.

thats's all.


----------



## Noomi

Rambunctious said:


> Buy a box of condoms and shut up!



Keep your head out of my damned uterus.


----------



## Avatar4321

Noomi said:


> Rambunctious said:
> 
> 
> 
> Buy a box of condoms and shut up!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep your head out of my damned uterus.
Click to expand...


I dont think he wants to be in it.


----------



## Avatar4321

Hyrcanus said:


> All abortion clinics should be licensed, staffed by a doctor, and routinely inspected.
> 
> thats's all.



Im not sure why anyone thinks that's objectable.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

TemplarKormac said:


> Abortion is murder. If not done for the sake of health, it is done just because she can. What about that isn't appalling to you?



Abortion is not murder. 

You continue to willfully confuse civil and criminal law.


----------



## koshergrl

You continue to willfully ignore the fact that if a bad law makes murder "legal"...it's still murder.

But that's neither here nor there. Why do you object to reasonable oversight of abortion clinics that would result in them being safer for women?


----------



## AmyNation

I guess we're at a standstill, you have your facts from a christian anti-abortion website, I've posted mine from guttmacher and a encyclopedia style website. 

You put our faith in yours, and I stand behind mine


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

Avatar4321 said:


> Hyrcanus said:
> 
> 
> 
> All abortion clinics should be licensed, staffed by a doctor, and routinely inspected.
> 
> thats's all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im not sure why anyone thinks that's objectable.
Click to expand...


No one says it does. 

Whats objectionable is the state dictating to Americans how to conduct their private lives.


----------



## Hyrcanus

koshergrl said:


> You continue to willfully ignore the fact that if a bad law makes murder "legal"...it's still murder.
> 
> But that's neither here nor there. Why do you object to reasonable oversight of abortion clinics that would result in them being safer for women?



the point of the Texas law wasn't the safety of women.

the point was to make abortion inaccessable for most women in Texas.


----------



## Avatar4321

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hyrcanus said:
> 
> 
> 
> All abortion clinics should be licensed, staffed by a doctor, and routinely inspected.
> 
> thats's all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im not sure why anyone thinks that's objectable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No one says it does.
> 
> Whats objectionable is the state dictating to Americans how to conduct their private lives.
Click to expand...


No one is. The state is telling Americans what they can't do to other people.


----------



## Hyrcanus

Avatar4321 said:


> No one is. The state is telling Americans what they can't do to other people.



zygotes and embryos aren't persons.


----------



## koshergrl

AmyNation said:


> I guess we're at a standstill, you have your facts from a christian anti-abortion website, I've posted mine from guttmacher and a encyclopedia style website.
> 
> You put our faith in yours, and I stand behind mine



Actually, mine include a statement from the CDC that acknowledges woeful underreporting and incomplete maternal death statistics.

But you aren't motivated to help women who are desperate and in danger. That's your deal. You think it's good and right that women be processed in slaughterhouses. The important thing is to keep those slaughterhouses running...no matter how filthy and dangerous they are, and no matter how inept and unqualified the butchers are.

Those butchers have a right to make money, too. And women should be happy to die so that they can.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

koshergrl said:


> You continue to willfully ignore the fact that if a bad law makes murder "legal"...it's still murder.
> 
> But that's neither here nor there. Why do you object to reasonable oversight of abortion clinics that would result in them being safer for women?



There are no laws that make murder anything, bad or otherwise.  

Murder concerns criminal law and procedural due process. 

Abortion concerns privacy rights and substantive due process. 

Theyre two separate and distinct legal doctrines, one having nothing to do with the other. Fundamental rights, such as the right to privacy, address personal liberty, as guaranteed by the Fifth Amendment, where the state may not interfere with personal matters, such as whether to have a child or not.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

koshergrl said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess we're at a standstill, you have your facts from a christian anti-abortion website, I've posted mine from guttmacher and a encyclopedia style website.
> 
> You put our faith in yours, and I stand behind mine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, mine include a statement from the CDC that acknowledges woeful underreporting and incomplete maternal death statistics.
> 
> But you aren't motivated to help women who are desperate and in danger. That's your deal. You think it's good and right that women be processed in slaughterhouses. The important thing is to keep those slaughterhouses running...no matter how filthy and dangerous they are, and no matter how inept and unqualified the butchers are.
> 
> Those butchers have a right to make money, too. And women should be happy to die so that they can.
Click to expand...


Demagoguery. 

The last refuge of a failed argument.


----------



## Avatar4321

Hyrcanus said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one is. The state is telling Americans what they can't do to other people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zygotes and embryos aren't persons.
Click to expand...


Yes they are, my friend. 

There is a reason I've become much more pro life since my wife first became pregnant. When I first saw the ultrasound of our child and the little heart beat I became very much aware of how real the baby was. I realized who I was as a father and my responsibility to take care of my spouse and that child. When we lost, our child soon after I again became even more aware of how real and precious our child was. Ive had pets that I lost. Nothing compared to the grief of losing a child.

When my wife became pregnant again with our daughter, I again recognized the awesome responsibility and precious gift that we were blessed with. We were able to see some of her personality during the pregnancy. She still has some of those personality traits today. 

We weren't planning to have children when we found out we were going to have them. I would call them unexpected, though definitely not unwanted. When I first found out I was going to be a father I was completely shocked and felt overwhelmed with the real feelings that I was not prepared to be. But I also made the immediate decision to step up.

My children were both real people, even from the beginning. I love them both, even though I never got to see the face of one. It's the biggest insult to any parent to ever claim that their children are not people. Because regardless of what you think, my child was a person. And even if I hadn't been willing to step up to become a parent, I would have had absolutely no right to take my childs life. Nor would my wife have had the right to (and thankfully she never would have considered it).

So you can pretend unborn children aren't children. You can pretend they aren't people. Maybe it will ease your conscience. But the truth is the truth. I've seen it for myself. I would seriously ask yourself to reconsider what you are saying and feeling about this.


----------



## koshergrl

I made my argument, and I backed it up with the CDC's own lament about the underreporting of abortion deaths.

I always make my argument.


----------



## Avatar4321

Lakhota said:


>



So unless one goes to medical school they have no interest in preserving the lives of their children or any other child?


----------



## koshergrl

Funny. the bill they killed had the potential to make sure abortionists were medically qualified and capable. 

I guess she really isn't concerned about that.


----------



## Mertex

Rambunctious said:


> Buy a box of condoms and shut up!



I'm sure rapists will follow your advice.


----------



## OriginalShroom

Noomi said:


> Rambunctious said:
> 
> 
> 
> Buy a box of condoms and shut up!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep your head out of my damned uterus.
Click to expand...


Then don't ask me to support what you do with it or what comes out of it.


----------



## koshergrl

No, it's not at all.
But don't let that stop you from making your big pile of fail...


----------



## Luissa

*Please stay on topic, and do not troll the politics forum. If we have to keep deleting posts the thread could be closed. 
Please also do not respond to troll posts, your post will also be deleted and it makes our job harder.Thank you.*


----------



## Cowman

13 Consecutive hours of standing.

People do that every day in their jobs. It's rough, but it gets done.

I remember my job at Zales that required I stand for 13 hours. Granted, I was given two breaks and lunch, but sitting after standing so long was worse than if I just continued to stand.


----------



## Cowman

OriginalShroom said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rambunctious said:
> 
> 
> 
> Buy a box of condoms and shut up!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep your head out of my damned uterus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then don't ask me to support what you do with it or what comes out of it.
Click to expand...


Quit trying to fuck her.

You people are always looking to fuck over women in non pleasant ways every chance you get.


----------



## GWV5903

OKTexas said:


> Have to admire someone willing to stand for their convictions, with any luck she will faint about 8 pm and the bill will be passed while they haul her ass out on a stretcher.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Avatar4321 said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So unless one goes to medical school they have no interest in preserving the lives of their children or any other child?
Click to expand...


I have a counterquote for that

"Abortionists, either get out of the killing business, or go to parenting school."


----------



## JakeStarkey

Texas is a unique place, and I loved having two of my homes there for many years.  However, the parochial, insular, old-timey religious folks, which make Perry's based, run the culture through the laws there.  They will pass new legislation next week in the special session.  Then the courts will kill it.


----------



## earlycuyler

Noomi said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abortion is murder. If not done for the sake of health, it is done just because she can. What about that isn't appalling to you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, but women don't get arrested for having abortions. Abortion is legal and therefore it can't be murder. When will you accept that?
Click to expand...


This is true, and it never will be. Thing is, its pushed as a form of birth control, and as the best possible option aside from not having sex at all. The process is hard to see and if it was explained to most women who wanted one, I doubt highly that it would be done so much. This is why you or your boy friend joe won't ever post a video of the process while one is being carried out. It also shocks me that you and joe want all those African American babies dead. You guys come off as racist. Almost Hitler like.


----------



## rightwinger

koshergrl said:


> Funny. the bill they killed had the potential to make sure abortionists were medically qualified and capable.
> 
> I guess she really isn't concerned about that.



It had nothing to do with that.

It is a backdoor ban on abortion creating a buerocracy  that clinics can't meet

You have to have admitting privledges at a local hospital....then you pressure hospitals not to provide admitting privledges
Your clinic must meet hospital like standards. Block women from using their insurance to pay for an abortion which forces women to pay cash. Then demand that clinics upgrade facilities knowing that they can't pass the costs onto the women


----------



## earlycuyler

rightwinger said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny. the bill they killed had the potential to make sure abortionists were medically qualified and capable.
> 
> I guess she really isn't concerned about that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It had nothing to do with that.
> 
> It is a backdoor ban on abortion creating a buerocracy  that clinics can't meet
> 
> You have to have admitting privledges at a local hospital....then you pressure hospitals not to provide admitting privledges
> Your clinic must meet hospital like standards. Block women from using their insurance to pay for an abortion which forces women to pay cash. Then demand that clinics upgrade facilities knowing that they can't pass the costs onto the women
Click to expand...


First, taxpayers already pay for abortions. No woman will ever be denied an abortion for lack of money. Spend ten minutes at any states planned parenthood web site and you will see that. Clinics SHOULD meet hospital like standards and be inspected regularly and shut down when found lacking. This is how we prevent Gosnell like things from happening. Its common sense.


----------



## Jroc

> *Texas GOP set to try again*
> 
> 
> After a one-woman filibuster and a raucous crowd helped derail a GOP-led effort to restrict Texas abortions, Gov. Rick Perry announced Wednesday that he's calling lawmakers back next week to try again.
> 
> Perry ordered the Legislature to meet July 1 to begin 30 more days of work. Like the first special session, which ended in chaos overnight, the second one will include on its agenda a Republican-backed plan that critics say would close nearly every abortion clinic across the state and impose other widespread limits on the procedure.
> 
> "I am calling the Legislature back into session because too much important work remains undone for the people of Texas," Perry said in a statement. "Texans value life and want to protect women and the unborn."
> 
> The first session's debate over abortion restrictions led to the most chaotic day in the Texas Legislature in modern history, starting with a marathon filibuster and ending with a down-to-the wire, frenetic vote marked by questions about whether Republicans tried to break chamber rules and jam the measure through.
> 
> A second filibuster is harder to pull off though, since supporters of the bill will ensure it clear preliminary hurdles and reaches floor votes in the House and Senate well before the second session expires.




After abortion setback, Texas GOP set to try again | www.wsbtv.com


----------



## JakeStarkey

The real reason for the bill is to make the process too costly and too inconvenient for most providers and clients in Texas to meet.

The court will kill the legislation on those concerns alone.


----------



## Mertex

JakeStarkey said:


> Texas is a unique place, and I loved having two of my homes there for many years.  However, the parochial, insular, old-timey religious folks, which make Perry's based, run the culture through the laws there.  They will pass new legislation next week in the special session.  Then the courts will kill it.



Perry is the same ole "oops" dunce.  Thanks to him, Texas won't remain "red" for too long.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Mertex said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Texas is a unique place, and I loved having two of my homes there for many years.  However, the parochial, insular, old-timey religious folks, which make Perry's based, run the culture through the laws there.  They will pass new legislation next week in the special session.  Then the courts will kill it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perry is the same ole "oops" dunce.  Thanks to him, Texas won't remain "red" for too long.
Click to expand...


Perry can't be semi-dictator for much longer.  The growth of the Hispanic population and the aging of the younger populations and the dying off of the evangelical wing without replacements for that will flip the state between 2020 and 2024.


----------



## Chris

Never mind the vicious nonsense of claiming that an embryo has a &#8220;right to life.&#8221; A piece of protoplasm has no rights&#8212;and no life in the human sense of the term. One may argue about the later stages of a pregnancy, but the essential issue concerns only the first three months. To equate a potential with an actual, is vicious; to advocate the sacrifice of the latter to the former, is unspeakable. . . . Observe that by ascribing rights to the unborn, i.e., the nonliving, the anti-abortionists obliterate the rights of the living: the right of young people to set the course of their own lives. The task of raising a child is a tremendous, lifelong responsibility, which no one should undertake unwittingly or unwillingly. - Ayn Rand


----------



## BlindBoo

Most Texans believe that Texas laws already places enough restrictions on abortion and we don't need any new laws.  Perry is wasting tax payer money.


----------



## koshergrl

Bullshit. MOST TEXANS, as in the majority, wanted the bill to pass.

What happenes is what is referred to as "tyranny by the minority".


----------



## JakeStarkey

Nah, the bill did not pass the legislature, which is the fault of the majority.

The court will hold the second it passes.


----------



## BreezeWood

> Executions in Texas at 500 since 1982 as woman put to death - World - CBC News
> 
> 
> Kimberly McCarthy, 52, became the 500th person in Texas to be executed when she was put to death Wednesday night ....





and the "tyranny by the majority" is a blessing for koshergrl ... when they are more than willing to take another persons life to suit their interests .... yes for one but no for the other.


----------



## Dot Com

BreezeWood said:


> Executions in Texas at 500 since 1982 as woman put to death - World - CBC News
> 
> 
> Kimberly McCarthy, 52, became the 500th person in Texas to be executed when she was put to death Wednesday night ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and the "tyranny by the majority" is a blessing for koshergrl ... when they are more than willing to take another persons life to suit their interests .... yes for one but no for the other.
Click to expand...


she loves forcing her views on others  Remember when segregated schools were approved by the majority?


----------



## BlindBoo

koshergrl said:


> Bullshit. MOST TEXANS, as in the majority, wanted the bill to pass.
> 
> What happenes is what is referred to as "tyranny by the minority".



On the first point.  Not bovine excrement.

Of registered voters, 63 percent say the state has enough restrictions on abortion and 71 percent thinking that the Governor and legislature should be more focused on the economy and jobs. A majority opposes the sort of legislation passed by the state Senate and being considered by the state House during this legislative Special Session, believing that it imposes further restrictions on abortion. Overall, only 34 percent trust the Governor and the legislature to make decisions about women's healthcare.

Texas Voters Oppose Governor Perry's Omnibus Abortion Bill - GQR

Second point.  Yes the Anti-Choice folks here in Texas are in the minority........


----------



## koshergrl

"The rub here is that the court ruled that citizens using the legal process had no standing to defend a law that they had already passed. But in Texas, the mob in effect grabbed standing not granted to it in law to stop a bill that the majority favors. In both cases, ordinary citizens in the majority lost in what is supposed to be a representative republic."

The PJ Tatler » A Few Thoughts on the Texas Filibuster and the Supremes

"Davis stood and spoke continuously for nearly 11 hours in an attempt to block passage of SB 5, a bill that would ban all abortions after 20 weeks and could effectively close all but five abortion clinics in the state. Supporters say the new, stringent standards raise the level of care for Texas women. The majority of Texas voters polled have shown support for restrictions on abortion"

Texas Legislators Called Back For Special Session On Abortion Bill : The Two-Way : NPR


----------



## Cowman

TemplarKormac said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So unless one goes to medical school they have no interest in preserving the lives of their children or any other child?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have a counterquote for that
> 
> "Abortionists, either get out of the killing business, or go to parenting school."
Click to expand...


First rule of parenting: Say to your kids as often as possible, "I brought you into this world, and I can take you out of it!"

Except the aborted fetuses were never brought into this world. They were never intended to be.


----------



## koshergrl

BreezeWood said:


> Executions in Texas at 500 since 1982 as woman put to death - World - CBC News
> 
> 
> Kimberly McCarthy, 52, became the 500th person in Texas to be executed when she was put to death Wednesday night ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and the "tyranny by the majority" is a blessing for koshergrl ... when they are more than willing to take another persons life to suit their interests .... yes for one but no for the other.
Click to expand...

 
I don't know what you're talking about, perhaps you're under the influence (again, or still...who knows) BUT "tyranny by the majority" is also known as "democracy" whereas "tyranny by the minority" is just...tyranny.


----------



## Spoonman

Chris said:


> AUSTIN, Texas (AP) -- Wearing pink tennis shoes to prepare for nearly 13 consecutive hours of standing, a Democratic Texas state senator on Tuesday began a one-woman filibuster to block a GOP-led effort that would impose stringent new abortion restrictions across the nation's second-most populous state.
> 
> Sen. Wendy Davis, 50, of Fort Worth began the filibuster at 11:18 a.m. CDT Tuesday and passed the halfway mark in her countdown to midnight - the deadline for the end of the 30-day special session.
> 
> Rules stipulate she remain standing, not lean on her desk or take any breaks - even for meals or to use the bathroom. Colleagues removed her chair so she wouldn't sit down by mistake.
> 
> If signed into law, the measures would close almost every abortion clinic in Texas, a state 773 miles wide and 790 miles long with 26 million people. A woman living along the Mexico border or in West Texas would have to drive hundreds of miles to obtain an abortion if the law passes.
> 
> In her opening remarks, Davis said she was "rising on the floor today to humbly give voice to thousands of Texans" and called Republican efforts to pass the bill a "raw abuse of power."
> 
> PilotOnline.com: national & world News for Hampton Roads, Va., from The Virginian-Pilot



Chris, let me ask you and any of the liberals here.  Was she right to use the filibuster?


----------



## BlindBoo

koshergrl said:


> "The rub here is that the court ruled that citizens using the legal process had no standing to defend a law that they had already passed. But in Texas, the mob in effect grabbed standing not granted to it in law to stop a bill that the majority favors. In both cases, ordinary citizens in the majority lost in what is supposed to be a representative republic."
> 
> The PJ Tatler » A Few Thoughts on the Texas Filibuster and the Supremes
> 
> "Davis stood and spoke continuously for nearly 11 hours in an attempt to block passage of SB 5, a bill that would ban all abortions after 20 weeks and could effectively close all but five abortion clinics in the state. Supporters say the new, stringent standards raise the level of care for Texas women. *The majority of Texas voters polled have shown support for restrictions on abortion*"
> 
> Texas Legislators Called Back For Special Session On Abortion Bill : The Two-Way : NPR



We already have restrictions on abortions that most Texans support, but on these new more restrictive measures, the polls do not show majority support.  Trying to ram these new restrictions through a special session does not rise to the cause of an emergency session.


----------



## Avatar4321

Cowman said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So unless one goes to medical school they have no interest in preserving the lives of their children or any other child?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a counterquote for that
> 
> "Abortionists, either get out of the killing business, or go to parenting school."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First rule of parenting: Say to your kids as often as possible, "I brought you into this world, and I can take you out of it!"
> 
> Except the aborted fetuses were never brought into this world. They were never intended to be.
Click to expand...


Sure they were intended to be. people just killed them before they had a chance to reach their potential.


----------



## AmyNation

Spoonman said:


> Chris said:
> 
> 
> 
> AUSTIN, Texas (AP) -- Wearing pink tennis shoes to prepare for nearly 13 consecutive hours of standing, a Democratic Texas state senator on Tuesday began a one-woman filibuster to block a GOP-led effort that would impose stringent new abortion restrictions across the nation's second-most populous state.
> 
> Sen. Wendy Davis, 50, of Fort Worth began the filibuster at 11:18 a.m. CDT Tuesday and passed the halfway mark in her countdown to midnight - the deadline for the end of the 30-day special session.
> 
> Rules stipulate she remain standing, not lean on her desk or take any breaks - even for meals or to use the bathroom. Colleagues removed her chair so she wouldn't sit down by mistake.
> 
> If signed into law, the measures would close almost every abortion clinic in Texas, a state 773 miles wide and 790 miles long with 26 million people. A woman living along the Mexico border or in West Texas would have to drive hundreds of miles to obtain an abortion if the law passes.
> 
> In her opening remarks, Davis said she was "rising on the floor today to humbly give voice to thousands of Texans" and called Republican efforts to pass the bill a "raw abuse of power."
> 
> PilotOnline.com: national & world News for Hampton Roads, Va., from The Virginian-Pilot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris, let me ask you and any of the liberals here.  Was she right to use the filibuster?
Click to expand...


I said earlier in the thread, if a politican feels so strongly about something that they are willing to stand up and talk about it for 13 hours without pause for food or bathroom breaks, than I'm fine with their use of the filibuster.


----------



## AmyNation

BlindBoo said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit. MOST TEXANS, as in the majority, wanted the bill to pass.
> 
> What happenes is what is referred to as "tyranny by the minority".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the first point.  Not bovine excrement.
> 
> Of registered voters, 63 percent say the state has enough restrictions on abortion and 71 percent thinking that the Governor and legislature should be more focused on the economy and jobs. A majority opposes the sort of legislation passed by the state Senate and being considered by the state House during this legislative Special Session, believing that it imposes further restrictions on abortion. Overall, only 34 percent trust the Governor and the legislature to make decisions about women's healthcare.
> 
> Texas Voters Oppose Governor Perry's Omnibus Abortion Bill - GQR
> 
> Second point.  Yes the Anti-Choice folks here in Texas are in the minority........
Click to expand...


I didn't even think to question if the majority of Texans were in favor of the bill.


----------



## bodecea

Spoonman said:


> Chris said:
> 
> 
> 
> AUSTIN, Texas (AP) -- Wearing pink tennis shoes to prepare for nearly 13 consecutive hours of standing, a Democratic Texas state senator on Tuesday began a one-woman filibuster to block a GOP-led effort that would impose stringent new abortion restrictions across the nation's second-most populous state.
> 
> Sen. Wendy Davis, 50, of Fort Worth began the filibuster at 11:18 a.m. CDT Tuesday and passed the halfway mark in her countdown to midnight - the deadline for the end of the 30-day special session.
> 
> Rules stipulate she remain standing, not lean on her desk or take any breaks - even for meals or to use the bathroom. Colleagues removed her chair so she wouldn't sit down by mistake.
> 
> If signed into law, the measures would close almost every abortion clinic in Texas, a state 773 miles wide and 790 miles long with 26 million people. A woman living along the Mexico border or in West Texas would have to drive hundreds of miles to obtain an abortion if the law passes.
> 
> In her opening remarks, Davis said she was "rising on the floor today to humbly give voice to thousands of Texans" and called Republican efforts to pass the bill a "raw abuse of power."
> 
> PilotOnline.com: national & world News for Hampton Roads, Va., from The Virginian-Pilot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris, let me ask you and any of the liberals here.  Was she right to use the filibuster?
Click to expand...


If it's legal to do, sure...why not?


----------



## Spoonman

bodecea said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris said:
> 
> 
> 
> AUSTIN, Texas (AP) -- Wearing pink tennis shoes to prepare for nearly 13 consecutive hours of standing, a Democratic Texas state senator on Tuesday began a one-woman filibuster to block a GOP-led effort that would impose stringent new abortion restrictions across the nation's second-most populous state.
> 
> Sen. Wendy Davis, 50, of Fort Worth began the filibuster at 11:18 a.m. CDT Tuesday and passed the halfway mark in her countdown to midnight - the deadline for the end of the 30-day special session.
> 
> Rules stipulate she remain standing, not lean on her desk or take any breaks - even for meals or to use the bathroom. Colleagues removed her chair so she wouldn't sit down by mistake.
> 
> If signed into law, the measures would close almost every abortion clinic in Texas, a state 773 miles wide and 790 miles long with 26 million people. A woman living along the Mexico border or in West Texas would have to drive hundreds of miles to obtain an abortion if the law passes.
> 
> In her opening remarks, Davis said she was "rising on the floor today to humbly give voice to thousands of Texans" and called Republican efforts to pass the bill a "raw abuse of power."
> 
> PilotOnline.com: national & world News for Hampton Roads, Va., from The Virginian-Pilot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris, let me ask you and any of the liberals here.  Was she right to use the filibuster?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If it's legal to do, sure...why not?
Click to expand...


There seems to be a lot of whining from the left when republican seneators like rand paul or others do it.  they call it obstructionism.


----------



## koshergrl

AmyNation said:


> BlindBoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit. MOST TEXANS, as in the majority, wanted the bill to pass.
> 
> What happenes is what is referred to as "tyranny by the minority".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the first point. Not bovine excrement.
> 
> Of registered voters, 63 percent say the state has enough restrictions on abortion and 71 percent thinking that the Governor and legislature should be more focused on the economy and jobs. A majority opposes the sort of legislation passed by the state Senate and being considered by the state House during this legislative Special Session, believing that it imposes further restrictions on abortion. Overall, only 34 percent trust the Governor and the legislature to make decisions about women's healthcare.
> 
> Texas Voters Oppose Governor Perry's Omnibus Abortion Bill - GQR
> 
> Second point. Yes the Anti-Choice folks here in Texas are in the minority........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't even think to question if the majority of Texans were in favor of the bill.
Click to expand...

 
That's because you don't care. You believe in strong-arming the opposition, so whether the opposition is minority or majority is irrelevant.


----------



## bodecea

Spoonman said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chris, let me ask you and any of the liberals here.  Was she right to use the filibuster?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it's legal to do, sure...why not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There seems to be a lot of whining from the left when republican seneators like rand paul or others do it.  they call it obstructionism.
Click to expand...


Not from me....again, if it's legal...they can have at it.


----------



## AmyNation

koshergrl said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlindBoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the first point. Not bovine excrement.
> 
> Of registered voters, 63 percent say the state has enough restrictions on abortion and 71 percent thinking that the Governor and legislature should be more focused on the economy and jobs. A majority opposes the sort of legislation passed by the state Senate and being considered by the state House during this legislative Special Session, believing that it imposes further restrictions on abortion. Overall, only 34 percent trust the Governor and the legislature to make decisions about women's healthcare.
> 
> Texas Voters Oppose Governor Perry's Omnibus Abortion Bill - GQR
> 
> Second point. Yes the Anti-Choice folks here in Texas are in the minority........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't even think to question if the majority of Texans were in favor of the bill.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because you don't care. You believe in strong-arming the opposition, so whether the opposition is minority or majority is irrelevant.
Click to expand...

You turn particularly whiny when proven wrong.

Why cant you ever just "I was wrong" and accept it gracefully?

This bill was not favored by the majority, it did not improve health care for women seeking abortions and it died the death it deserved.


----------



## koshergrl

BlindBoo said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The rub here is that the court ruled that citizens using the legal process had no standing to defend a law that they had already passed. But in Texas, the mob in effect grabbed standing not granted to it in law to stop a bill that the majority favors. In both cases, ordinary citizens in the majority lost in what is supposed to be a representative republic."
> 
> The PJ Tatler » A Few Thoughts on the Texas Filibuster and the Supremes
> 
> "Davis stood and spoke continuously for nearly 11 hours in an attempt to block passage of SB 5, a bill that would ban all abortions after 20 weeks and could effectively close all but five abortion clinics in the state. Supporters say the new, stringent standards raise the level of care for Texas women. *The majority of Texas voters polled have shown support for restrictions on abortion*"
> 
> Texas Legislators Called Back For Special Session On Abortion Bill : The Two-Way : NPR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We already have restrictions on abortions that most Texans support, but on these new more restrictive measures, the polls do not show majority support. Trying to ram these new restrictions through a special session does not rise to the cause of an emergency session.
Click to expand...

 

The only "new restriction" on ABORTION is the 20 week one, that the majority of Texans (and Americans) whole heartedly endorse.

The other so-called restrictions aren't restrictions on abortions, they simply set a medical standard for abortionists that brings them into mainstream medicine.

And it is THAT that has the abortionists shrieking, because they don't WANT to have to meet the same standards as mainstream providers. They don't want to have to show any qualifications at all, they don't want to have to be inspected, they don't want to keep records, and they most certainly don't want to ever be in the hostile HOSPITAL environment, which is competitive and closely monitored. And they don't care if women die so that they can continue as they have. They don't care one bit.


----------



## Avatar4321

bodecea said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris said:
> 
> 
> 
> AUSTIN, Texas (AP) -- Wearing pink tennis shoes to prepare for nearly 13 consecutive hours of standing, a Democratic Texas state senator on Tuesday began a one-woman filibuster to block a GOP-led effort that would impose stringent new abortion restrictions across the nation's second-most populous state.
> 
> Sen. Wendy Davis, 50, of Fort Worth began the filibuster at 11:18 a.m. CDT Tuesday and passed the halfway mark in her countdown to midnight - the deadline for the end of the 30-day special session.
> 
> Rules stipulate she remain standing, not lean on her desk or take any breaks - even for meals or to use the bathroom. Colleagues removed her chair so she wouldn't sit down by mistake.
> 
> If signed into law, the measures would close almost every abortion clinic in Texas, a state 773 miles wide and 790 miles long with 26 million people. A woman living along the Mexico border or in West Texas would have to drive hundreds of miles to obtain an abortion if the law passes.
> 
> In her opening remarks, Davis said she was "rising on the floor today to humbly give voice to thousands of Texans" and called Republican efforts to pass the bill a "raw abuse of power."
> 
> PilotOnline.com: national & world News for Hampton Roads, Va., from The Virginian-Pilot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris, let me ask you and any of the liberals here.  Was she right to use the filibuster?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If it's legal to do, sure...why not?
Click to expand...


Not everything that is legal is right. Not everything that is right is legal.

There are some who object to the fillibuster being used when they oppose it's purpose but love it when they are for the issue.


----------



## Avatar4321

AmyNation said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't even think to question if the majority of Texans were in favor of the bill.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's because you don't care. You believe in strong-arming the opposition, so whether the opposition is minority or majority is irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You turn particularly whiny when proven wrong.
> 
> Why cant you ever just "I was wrong" and accept it gracefully?
> 
> This bill was not favored by the majority, it did not improve health care for women seeking abortions and it died the death it deserved.
Click to expand...


I predict it will be the law of Texas by the end of the year.


----------



## bendog

koshergrl said:


> BlindBoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The rub here is that the court ruled that citizens using the legal process had no standing to defend a law that they had already passed. But in Texas, the mob in effect grabbed standing not granted to it in law to stop a bill that the majority favors. In both cases, ordinary citizens in the majority lost in what is supposed to be a representative republic."
> 
> The PJ Tatler » A Few Thoughts on the Texas Filibuster and the Supremes
> 
> "Davis stood and spoke continuously for nearly 11 hours in an attempt to block passage of SB 5, a bill that would ban all abortions after 20 weeks and could effectively close all but five abortion clinics in the state. Supporters say the new, stringent standards raise the level of care for Texas women. *The majority of Texas voters polled have shown support for restrictions on abortion*"
> 
> Texas Legislators Called Back For Special Session On Abortion Bill : The Two-Way : NPR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We already have restrictions on abortions that most Texans support, but on these new more restrictive measures, the polls do not show majority support. Trying to ram these new restrictions through a special session does not rise to the cause of an emergency session.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The only "new restriction" on ABORTION is the 20 week one, that the majority of Texans (and Americans) whole heartedly endorse.
> 
> The other so-called restrictions aren't restrictions on abortions, they simply set a medical standard for abortionists that brings them into mainstream medicine.
> 
> And it is THAT that has the abortionists shrieking, because they don't WANT to have to meet the same standards as mainstream providers. They don't want to have to show any qualifications at all, they don't want to have to be inspected, they don't want to keep records, and they most certainly don't want to ever be in the hostile HOSPITAL environment, which is competitive and closely monitored. And they don't care if women die so that they can continue as they have. They don't care one bit.
Click to expand...


Being disingenuous does your position no positive service.  The legislation's intent is to close the vast maj of clinics.  At least be honest.  LOL


----------



## koshergrl

Yup, it will be law...

Because ultimately, it is the will of the people driving it.

Though the will of the people is little by little becoming irrelevant.


----------



## AmyNation

Avatar4321 said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's because you don't care. You believe in strong-arming the opposition, so whether the opposition is minority or majority is irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> You turn particularly whiny when proven wrong.
> 
> Why cant you ever just "I was wrong" and accept it gracefully?
> 
> This bill was not favored by the majority, it did not improve health care for women seeking abortions and it died the death it deserved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I predict it will be the law of Texas by the end of the year.
Click to expand...

I predict if they push it through it'll be held up with injunctions and die in the higher courts


----------



## Avatar4321

bendog said:


> Being disingenuous does your position no positive service.  The legislation's intent is to close the vast maj of clinics.  At least be honest.  LOL



After Gosnell and the guy down in Texas, how can anyone claim it's disingenuous to have standards at abortion clinics?

Sure let's just ignore standards as long as they can have abortions.

If they can't provide for the safety of those involved, they shouldn't be performing abortions or any medical procedurers.


----------



## Avatar4321

AmyNation said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> You turn particularly whiny when proven wrong.
> 
> Why cant you ever just "I was wrong" and accept it gracefully?
> 
> This bill was not favored by the majority, it did not improve health care for women seeking abortions and it died the death it deserved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I predict it will be the law of Texas by the end of the year.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I predict if they push it through it'll be held up with injunctions and die in the higher courts
Click to expand...


It's absolutely ridiculous that having medical standards for abortion clinics is a bad thing.


----------



## koshergrl

bendog said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlindBoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> We already have restrictions on abortions that most Texans support, but on these new more restrictive measures, the polls do not show majority support. Trying to ram these new restrictions through a special session does not rise to the cause of an emergency session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only "new restriction" on ABORTION is the 20 week one, that the majority of Texans (and Americans) whole heartedly endorse.
> 
> The other so-called restrictions aren't restrictions on abortions, they simply set a medical standard for abortionists that brings them into mainstream medicine.
> 
> And it is THAT that has the abortionists shrieking, because they don't WANT to have to meet the same standards as mainstream providers. They don't want to have to show any qualifications at all, they don't want to have to be inspected, they don't want to keep records, and they most certainly don't want to ever be in the hostile HOSPITAL environment, which is competitive and closely monitored. And they don't care if women die so that they can continue as they have. They don't care one bit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Being disingenuous does your position no positive service. The legislation's intent is to close the vast maj of clinics. At least be honest. LOL
Click to expand...

 
Nothing disingenuos about it. The legislation's purpose is to drum out disgusting abbatoirs that are butchering and killing women, and force the remaining clinics to meet a basic standard. I'm sorry if the vast majority of abortion clinics are abbatoirs. It's because there has been no oversight. Reform will make abortion MUCH safer. Are you against providing a decent standard of care for women who are seeking abortion?


----------



## AmyNation

Avatar4321 said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I predict it will be the law of Texas by the end of the year.
> 
> 
> 
> I predict if they push it through it'll be held up with injunctions and die in the higher courts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's absolutely ridiculous that having medical standards for abortion clinics is a bad thing.
Click to expand...


It's absolutely ridiculous to suggest this bill did anything to improve medical standards at abortion clinics. I think you know that, I get why KG won't admit it but I thought you were more honest than that.


----------



## koshergrl

Are you calling Avatar a liar?

Because that would be trolling, or so I have been told.


----------



## Avatar4321

AmyNation said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> I predict if they push it through it'll be held up with injunctions and die in the higher courts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's absolutely ridiculous that having medical standards for abortion clinics is a bad thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's absolutely ridiculous to suggest this bill did anything to improve medical standards at abortion clinics. I think you know that, I get why KG won't admit it but I thought you were more honest than that.
Click to expand...


And what evidence would I have that the bill does nothing to improve medical standards? Especially when the bill specifically has measures that improve medical standards. Are they fake?


----------



## AmyNation

Avatar4321 said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's absolutely ridiculous that having medical standards for abortion clinics is a bad thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's absolutely ridiculous to suggest this bill did anything to improve medical standards at abortion clinics. I think you know that, I get why KG won't admit it but I thought you were more honest than that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And what evidence would I have that the bill does nothing to improve medical standards? Especially when the bill specifically has measures that improve medical standards. Are they fake?
Click to expand...

What measures in the bill improve medical standards?


----------



## bendog

Avatar4321 said:


> bendog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Being disingenuous does your position no positive service.  The legislation's intent is to close the vast maj of clinics.  At least be honest.  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After Gosnell and the guy down in Texas, how can anyone claim it's disingenuous to have standards at abortion clinics?
> 
> Sure let's just ignore standards as long as they can have abortions.
> 
> If they can't provide for the safety of those involved, they shouldn't be performing abortions or any medical procedurers.
Click to expand...


You're being disengenouls in assertign the bill's intent is not to shut down clinics.  Texas can inspect clinics, the Texas Legislature and Medical Assoc can look at docs qualifications.  Gosnell is in jail.  I'm pretty sure docs kill hundreds daily via poor treatment choices in all kinds of procedures.  It's abortion you're about, not women's safety.  Fine, but don't lie about it.


----------



## koshergrl

It's a medical standard that mainstream physicians and specialists maintain admitting privileges in local hospitals. If you have ever had oral surgery, or made use of a neurologist or ob/gyn, or a rural medical clinic, or a 24 hour clinic, then you are aware that the professionals who provide the services have admitting privileges. It is a basic standard that they adhere to because it allows them to exercise the option of using the hospital facilities in the event their own facilities will not suffice. So if I woman starts to hemorrhage a week after her abortion at 20 weeks, the PHYSICIAN (because they are supposed to be physicians) who provided her care at the clinic can meet her at the hospital to administer what care needs to be administered.

Because you don't go to an abortion clinic if you're sick. You go to the ER or to your primary physician...but a lot of women avoid their primary physicians when they have abortions. 

When women die, it is almost ALWAYS because their abortion *doctors* aren't available to treat, and those same doctors will not tell them to go to the hospital, because they don't have admitting privileges. They don't want other doctors looking at their work. 

So they tell women to take ibuprofen and take a day off work.


----------



## BlindBoo

koshergrl said:


> BlindBoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The rub here is that the court ruled that citizens using the legal process had no standing to defend a law that they had already passed. But in Texas, the mob in effect grabbed standing not granted to it in law to stop a bill that the majority favors. In both cases, ordinary citizens in the majority lost in what is supposed to be a representative republic."
> 
> The PJ Tatler » A Few Thoughts on the Texas Filibuster and the Supremes
> 
> "Davis stood and spoke continuously for nearly 11 hours in an attempt to block passage of SB 5, a bill that would ban all abortions after 20 weeks and could effectively close all but five abortion clinics in the state. Supporters say the new, stringent standards raise the level of care for Texas women. *The majority of Texas voters polled have shown support for restrictions on abortion*"
> 
> Texas Legislators Called Back For Special Session On Abortion Bill : The Two-Way : NPR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We already have restrictions on abortions that most Texans support, but on these new more restrictive measures, the polls do not show majority support. Trying to ram these new restrictions through a special session does not rise to the cause of an emergency session.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The only "new restriction" on ABORTION is the 20 week one, that the majority of Texans (and Americans) whole heartedly endorse.
> 
> The other so-called restrictions aren't restrictions on abortions, they simply set a medical standard for abortionists that brings them into mainstream medicine.
> 
> And it is THAT that has the abortionists shrieking, because they don't WANT to have to meet the same standards as mainstream providers. They don't want to have to show any qualifications at all, they don't want to have to be inspected, they don't want to keep records, and they most certainly don't want to ever be in the hostile HOSPITAL environment, which is competitive and closely monitored. And they don't care if women die so that they can continue as they have. They don't care one bit.
Click to expand...


Whatever you want to call it, it does not have majority support among Texans.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Those are your assertions, koshergrl.  Please give us objective sources, data, and empirical evidence back up what you are saying.


----------



## koshergrl

bendog said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bendog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Being disingenuous does your position no positive service. The legislation's intent is to close the vast maj of clinics. At least be honest. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After Gosnell and the guy down in Texas, how can anyone claim it's disingenuous to have standards at abortion clinics?
> 
> Sure let's just ignore standards as long as they can have abortions.
> 
> If they can't provide for the safety of those involved, they shouldn't be performing abortions or any medical procedurers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're being disengenouls in assertign the bill's intent is not to shut down clinics. Texas can inspect clinics, the Texas Legislature and Medical Assoc can look at docs qualifications. Gosnell is in jail. I'm pretty sure docs kill hundreds daily via poor treatment choices in all kinds of procedures. It's abortion you're about, not women's safety. Fine, but don't lie about it.
Click to expand...

 
Trolling. Reported.

BTW, I have maintained all along that the bill would close the abortion clinics that are operating on the fringes of mainstream medicine. The point is to make abortion clinics SAFER...and that means that the bad ones, the ones that have no standing in the community, and that for whatever reason can't work with hospitals, will be closed.

Because those are the ones that kill women.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Texas laws already protect women in abortion clinics.  Nothing in the bill significantly elevated their level of protection.  The state can inspect clinics, and the state licenses, and the Medical Association evaluates credentials.

The bill is solely about cutting access, nothing more.


----------



## koshergrl

BlindBoo said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlindBoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> We already have restrictions on abortions that most Texans support, but on these new more restrictive measures, the polls do not show majority support. Trying to ram these new restrictions through a special session does not rise to the cause of an emergency session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only "new restriction" on ABORTION is the 20 week one, that the majority of Texans (and Americans) whole heartedly endorse.
> 
> The other so-called restrictions aren't restrictions on abortions, they simply set a medical standard for abortionists that brings them into mainstream medicine.
> 
> And it is THAT that has the abortionists shrieking, because they don't WANT to have to meet the same standards as mainstream providers. They don't want to have to show any qualifications at all, they don't want to have to be inspected, they don't want to keep records, and they most certainly don't want to ever be in the hostile HOSPITAL environment, which is competitive and closely monitored. And they don't care if women die so that they can continue as they have. They don't care one bit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whatever you want to call it, it does not have majority support among Texans.
Click to expand...

 
Yes, it does. The Republican senators represent their constituents, and they are the majority...and they support it.

Hence the mob thing.


----------



## koshergrl

JakeStarkey said:


> Texas laws already protect women in abortion clinics. Nothing in the bill significantly elevated their level of protection. The state can inspect clinics, and the state licenses, and the Medical Association evaluates credentials.
> 
> The bill is solely about cutting access, nothing more.


 
It's about saving women's lives, and getting rid of the Gosnells.


I can understand why you object. Can't have that.


----------



## JakeStarkey

False equivalency, kosghergrl.  The people do not support the bill.  And the senators will find out in their next election.


----------



## JakeStarkey

koshergrl said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Texas laws already protect women in abortion clinics. Nothing in the bill significantly elevated their level of protection. The state can inspect clinics, and the state licenses, and the Medical Association evaluates credentials.
> 
> The bill is solely about cutting access, nothing more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's about saving women's lives, and getting rid of the Gosnells.
> 
> I can understand why you object. Can't have that.
Click to expand...


Reported.  We are talking about access, not about saving women's lives.  The bill does nothing to further the latter goal at all.  Nothing.  And you can't provide info for your point.


----------



## koshergrl

JakeStarkey said:


> False equivalency, kosghergrl. The people do not support the bill. And the senators will find out in their next election.


 
No false equivilance. The people didn't block the bill. A loud and aggressive mob did.

The people have already approved the bill. The mob seeks to derail it.


----------



## Intense

*Moved to Congress Forum. Zone 3 Posting Rules apply. *


----------



## JakeStarkey

koshergrl said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> False equivalency, kosghergrl. The people do not support the bill. And the senators will find out in their next election.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No false equivilance. The people didn't block the bill. A loud and aggressive mob did.
> 
> The people have already approved the bill. The mob seeks to derail it.
Click to expand...


The Senate failed, koshergrl.  And if it succeeds next week, the courts will derail it.

This bill will never go into action, and this mob of hateAmerica noarbortion activists will be losing their seats in coming elections.


----------



## koshergrl

JakeStarkey said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Texas laws already protect women in abortion clinics. Nothing in the bill significantly elevated their level of protection. The state can inspect clinics, and the state licenses, and the Medical Association evaluates credentials.
> 
> The bill is solely about cutting access, nothing more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's about saving women's lives, and getting rid of the Gosnells.
> 
> I can understand why you object. Can't have that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Reported. We are talking about access, not about saving women's lives. The bill does nothing to further the latter goal at all. Nothing. And you can't provide info for your point.
Click to expand...

 
Reported for what? Telling you that you're wrong?


----------



## Luissa

Everyone stop reporting everything you disagree with. Review the rules. Stop threatening to report someone. If this keeps up infractions and/or short vacations could be handed out. Stay on topic. Thank you.


----------



## JakeStarkey

koshergrl said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's about saving women's lives, and getting rid of the Gosnells.
> 
> I can understand why you object. Can't have that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reported. We are talking about access, not about saving women's lives. The bill does nothing to further the latter goal at all. Nothing. And you can't provide info for your point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Reported for what? Telling you that you're wrong?
Click to expand...


Trying to keep you on topic.  The bill does nothing constructively to save women's lives.


----------



## mamooth

koshergrl said:


> BTW, I have maintained all along that the bill would close the abortion clinics that are operating on the fringes of mainstream medicine.



And you're hypocritical in that stance, since no other type of outpatient surgery is required to hold to those the same standards. Oral surgery is more dangerous than abortion. Liposuction is more dangerous than abortion. Yet oddly, you're not screaming to have dentistry and cosmetic surgery only allowable at top-of-the-line surgical centers.

If you cared about health, you'd be demanding that all outpatient surgery be regulated the same way. But you don't. You single out abortion for such special standards. You're using fake concern over health to cover for your real motivation here, which is to ban abortion, period, for any reason you can manufacture.


----------



## koshergrl

mamooth said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, I have maintained all along that the bill would close the abortion clinics that are operating on the fringes of mainstream medicine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you're hypocritical in that stance, since no other type of outpatient surgery is required to hold to those the same standards. Oral surgery is more dangerous than abortion. Liposuction is more dangerous than abortion. Yet oddly, you're not screaming to have dentistry and cosmetic surgery only allowable at top-of-the-line surgical centers.
> 
> If you cared about health, you'd be demanding that all outpatient surgery be regulated the same way. But you don't. You single out abortion for such special standards. You're using fake concern over health to cover for your real motivation here, which is to ban abortion, period, for any reason you can manufacture.
Click to expand...

 
Straw man:
Per the CDC's letter, linked earlier, there are no reliable statistics on abortion. This includes death and injury statistics. So your statement about oral surgery and liposuction being safer, while impressive rhetorically, has no standing in the discussion. 

And ad hominem:
Regarding my *motivation*, that is completely irrelevant to the discussion. The point of the discussion is that the majority of Texans whole heartedly support a 20-week abortion limit, and increased oversight and accountability of the abortion clinics in operation. If abortion clinics need to close because they cannot come up to a reasonable standard, then they need to close. Others who have higher standards will take their place. The result will be women will receive better care, and fewer will die in hell holes like Gosnell's.


----------



## Hyrcanus

mamooth said:


> And you're hypocritical in that stance, since no other type of outpatient surgery is required to hold to those the same standards. Oral surgery is more dangerous than abortion. Liposuction is more dangerous than abortion. Yet oddly, you're not screaming to have dentistry and cosmetic surgery only allowable at top-of-the-line surgical centers....



Abortion should be held to the exact same medical standard as all other outpatient surgical procedures.

There is NO logical, rational, scientific, or medical reason to hold abortion to a higher medical standard.


----------



## koshergrl

Requiring them to have admitting privileges isn't a higher medical standard.

My oral surgeon was required to do oral surgery actually IN the hospital, in days gone by. Eventually, he opened a clinic...but he still had to have admitting privileges.

It's just one of those things that keeps all medical professionals on the same page.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Anecdotal evidence is not corroborative evidence.

Nothing in this bill is going to enhance saving women's lives.

It's a charade.


----------



## koshergrl

"Oral and maxillofacial surgeons are respected and valued members of the health care team. Oral and maxillofacial surgeons maintain active staff privileges with local and regional hospitals in their community and practice in a variety of settings including private clinical practice, ambulatory surgical centers and hospitals. "

Dental Students | AAOMS.org

Plastic surgery (liposuction): "Doctors must apply and be granted permission to admit patients into a hospital. 
http://www.healthgrades.com/physician/dr-donald-parks-3gnhh/address

I always have corroborative evidence.


----------



## mamooth

koshergrl said:


> Per the CDC's letter, linked earlier, there are no reliable statistics on abortion. This includes death and injury statistics. So your statement about oral surgery and liposuction being safer, while impressive rhetorically, has no standing in the discussion.


 
So you're waving your hands and invoking a conspiracy, check.

By the way, that CDC letter said _all_ maternal deaths are undercounted. You story on it is evolving. And your really bad train of logic here seems to be "We don't know stats perfectly, therefore we know nothing."

Abortion is safer than childbirth. Thus, by koshrgrl standards, she wants to kill women. Hey, her standards, not mine. She made those standards, she gets to have them applied to her.

And yes, I know she's got endless junk science from the pro-lie websites. Bring it on.

Anyways, she must really adore those back-alley abortions and chopshops, being that she's trying to outlaw legitimate clinics. I wonder, how many of these pro-lifers get a cash kickback from Dr. Gosnell types. Given how much business they drive to them, they've certainly earned such a paycheck.



> Regarding my *motivation*, that is completely irrelevant to the discussion.



Don't be absurd. Your lack of credibility is entirely relevant. If I show you're wildly inconsistent regarding your motivation, it destroys your claim.

But don't worry. Your Republican heroes will do what such thugs always do, which is cheat and change the rules, and the bill will eventually go through, and you'll loudly cheer the thuggery and cheating, as Republicans always do. And then the bill will then be shot down by the courts.


----------



## mamooth

koshergrl said:


> I always have corroborative evidence.



You mean you always move the goalposts. We we talking about ambulatory surgical center certification, and you switched topics to admitting privileges. Neither of those examples requires ambulatory surgical center certification. Your own quote on the first says a private clinic is quite acceptable.

Besides, Amy already thoroughly destroyed your "admitting privileges" nonsense.


----------



## Katzndogz

koshergrl said:


> Requiring them to have admitting privileges isn't a higher medical standard.
> 
> My oral surgeon was required to do oral surgery actually IN the hospital, in days gone by. Eventually, he opened a clinic...but he still had to have admitting privileges.
> 
> It's just one of those things that keeps all medical professionals on the same page.



It is one of those things that keeps doctors competent.  Doctors are not required to have medical malpractice insurance.  Hospitals require doctors to carry insurance.  A doctor that is uninsurable will not have admitting privileges anyplace.

The pro aborts don't care who performs abortions.  It could be the guy who lost his plumbing job last week.


----------



## koshergrl

mamooth said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Per the CDC's letter, linked earlier, there are no reliable statistics on abortion. This includes death and injury statistics. So your statement about oral surgery and liposuction being safer, while impressive rhetorically, has no standing in the discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you're waving your hands and invoking a conspiracy, check.
> 
> By the way, that CDC letter said _all_ maternal deaths are undercounted. You story on it is evolving. And your really bad train of logic here seems to be "We don't know stats perfectly, therefore we know nothing."
> 
> Abortion is safer than childbirth. Thus, by koshrgrl standards, she wants to kill women. Hey, her standards, not mine. She made those standards, she gets to have them applied to her.
> 
> And yes, I know she's got endless junk science from the pro-lie websites. Bring it on.
> 
> Anyways, she must really adore those back-alley abortions and chopshops, being that she's trying to outlaw legitimate clinics. I wonder, how many of these pro-lifers get a cash kickback from Dr. Gosnell types. Given how much business they drive to them, they've certainly earned such a paycheck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding my *motivation*, that is completely irrelevant to the discussion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't be absurd. Your lack of credibility is entirely relevant. If I show you're wildly inconsistent regarding your motivation, it destroys your claim.
> 
> But don't worry. Your Republican heroes will do what such thugs always do, which is cheat and change the rules, and the bill will eventually go through, and you'll loudly cheer the thuggery and cheating, as Republicans always do. And then the bill will then be shot down by the courts.
Click to expand...


Uh..ok.


----------



## koshergrl

AmyNation said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't even think to question if the majority of Texans were in favor of the bill.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's because you don't care. You believe in strong-arming the opposition, so whether the opposition is minority or majority is irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You turn particularly whiny when proven wrong.
> 
> Why cant you ever just "I was wrong" and accept it gracefully?
> 
> This bill was not favored by the majority, it did not improve health care for women seeking abortions and it died the death it deserved.
Click to expand...


Because I'm not wrong.

Why can't you debate, instead of engaging in trolling?


----------



## JakeStarkey

Yeah, kg, you are wrong.

Accept it and move on.


----------



## dilloduck

BlindBoo said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlindBoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> We already have restrictions on abortions that most Texans support, but on these new more restrictive measures, the polls do not show majority support. Trying to ram these new restrictions through a special session does not rise to the cause of an emergency session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only "new restriction" on ABORTION is the 20 week one, that the majority of Texans (and Americans) whole heartedly endorse.
> 
> The other so-called restrictions aren't restrictions on abortions, they simply set a medical standard for abortionists that brings them into mainstream medicine.
> 
> And it is THAT that has the abortionists shrieking, because they don't WANT to have to meet the same standards as mainstream providers. They don't want to have to show any qualifications at all, they don't want to have to be inspected, they don't want to keep records, and they most certainly don't want to ever be in the hostile HOSPITAL environment, which is competitive and closely monitored. And they don't care if women die so that they can continue as they have. They don't care one bit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whatever you want to call it, it does not have majority support among Texans.
Click to expand...


Then you should be impressed at how well Texas takes care of those in the minority.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Perry and the party have always taken care of the 38% minority that make up the social traditionalist and have no trouble screwing the other 62%.


----------



## dilloduck

JakeStarkey said:


> Perry and the party have always taken care of the 38% minority that make up the social traditionalist and have no trouble screwing the other 62%.



ya buddy---God's gonna love him for protecting minorities. The GOP has learned something from the liberals.


----------



## koshergrl

The majority of Texas is Republican, and the elected representatives of this state support the bill..and they represent their costitutuents...

"
There are 95 Republicans out of 150 in the Texas House, 19  Republicans out of 31 in the Texas Senate, where Wendy Davis serves.  Republicans enjoy almost a supermajority in both houses. Every statewide  elected official is a Republican. In fact, no Democrat has been elected  statewide in Texas since 1994. This is not just a red state. This is a  blood red state.
 "How amazing in a state like this with those numbers that the  Republicans could not manage to get this through. The Democrats used the  rule book as their weapon, the only weapon they had available. They  simply outplayed the Republicans in this case."


In Texas, Marathon Filibuster Derails New State Restrictions on Abortion | PBS NewsHour | June 26, 2013 | PBS


The will of the people is behind the bill.


The pro-abortion lobby is just finding ways to override the will of the people, as they always do.


The bill would improve the conditions at abortion clinics:


"It would have required the abortion clinics -- and there are 42 in the  state of Texas -- to upgrade to the standards of ambulatory surgical  centers." And that = upgrades that most of the abortion horror houses in Texas can't afford...which gives you a little insight into what their operating conditions are like.


In Texas, Marathon Filibuster Derails New State Restrictions on Abortion | PBS NewsHour | June 26, 2013 | PBS


----------



## koshergrl

Yeah, PBS is an anti-women's health site.

BTW, your troll post is in response to another troll post that was removed from the thread.

Go read the rules, loser.


----------



## koshergrl

It would require substandard hell holes to either improve their facilities, or shut down.

Do you REALLY think they would all shut down? Seriously? At $4-5000 a pop?

Nope. It is the nature of big business to meet the challenges thrown, and change for the better is always painful.

But necessary. I have no problem with women traveling if by doing so, they are guaranteed the best care possible. What's the benefit of not traveling, if you die in a pool of blood with your feet in the stirrups?


----------



## dilloduck

Yes---here in Texas we keep women barefoot and chained in the kitchen. Are you another fool who thinks that there are no conservative women in Texas who support this bill ?


----------



## koshergrl

I think now that it's futile to argue that the bill lacks majority support, they have to pretend that there are no female voters in Texas.

The females who object to that bill were there, hanging and shrieking from the rafters. There were what, 50?


----------



## dilloduck

koshergrl said:


> I think now that it's futile to argue that the bill lacks majority support, they have to pretend that there are no female voters in Texas.
> 
> The females who object to that bill were there, hanging and shrieking from the rafters. There were what, 50?



If the capital of Texas wasn't here  in uber liberal Austin, they may have gotten 5 or 10 shriekers.


----------



## Mertex

koshergrl said:


> Yup, it will be law...
> 
> Because ultimately, it is the will of the people driving it.
> 
> Though the will of the people is little by little becoming irrelevant.


If it was the will of the people Roe v Wade wouldn't have lasted 40 years.


----------



## dilloduck

Mertex said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, it will be law...
> 
> Because ultimately, it is the will of the people driving it.
> 
> Though the will of the people is little by little becoming irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> If it was the will of the people Roe v Wade wouldn't have lasted 40 years.
Click to expand...


SCOTUS isn't the will of the people.


----------



## koshergrl

No, it isn't. 

It's a law that overrode the will of the people.


----------



## Mertex

NLT said:


> Mertex said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Texas is a unique place, and I loved having two of my homes there for many years.  However, the parochial, insular, old-timey religious folks, which make Perry's based, run the culture through the laws there.  They will pass new legislation next week in the special session.  Then the courts will kill it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perry is the same ole "oops" dunce.  Thanks to him, *Texas won't remain "red" *for too long.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lay off the crack pipe bozo.
Click to expand...

Seems like the bozo is you (or you have been under the influence too long) and the rest of the conservatives who keep making racists remarks and laws against Hispanics. 

You can't stop progress, at least not with such backward ideas as cons have presented.  Major cities in Texas went blue in 2012 - so it's just a matter of time that the little rural areas with their backward thinking get shoved into oblivion.


Republicans are certainly aware that change is afoot in Texas. No less an authority than Karl Rove is known to have been worrying about the political future of Texas for years, says The Hill. The GOP is at work hiring 24 minority outreach staffers and has more than put its support behind Senators Marco Rubio of Florida and Ted Cruz of Texas. But, as Parker notes, this could be another sign of *the Republicans not quite realizing what they need to do.* Rubio and Cruz are both Cuban-American; while non-Hispanics may not make much of this, it significantly diminishes their appeal to Texas Latinos, who are primarily of Mexican heritage.
Could Texas Be Turning Blue?


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## koshergrl

Progress would be to improve the standards of the clinics that are providing abortion.

It appears you don't stand for progress at all.


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## koshergrl

I don't understand why progressives are so adamantly opposed to bringing abortions out of the back alley and into mainstream medicine.

They keep insisting that abortion IS about health...yet they steadfastly refuse to require them to provide up to date, medically acceptable treatment in clean, well outfitted clinics.


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## 4Horsemen

Abortion allows women to shrug off the guilt of killing their baby. This is the cornerstone of why they want to keep it available. 

They like to spew craziness about "It's my body" or "I don't want Gov. in my personal life"..yada..yada....when if they preferred common sense and responsibility in favor of reckless sexual behavior, they wouldn't have to fight FOR abortion. It would just be a poriah of society and be something snubbbed by the masses of women and not embraced. 

Another indicator of the sick mental state the Abortion Lusters are in.


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## JakeStarkey

NLT said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NLT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lay off the crack pipe bozo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are out of touch with reality if you believe your comment, NLT.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I live in Texas JS, there aint no way it is going blue. If you think it is then you are on crack too.
Click to expand...


I lived for over thirty years in El Paso, Harker Heights, Nacogdoches, Tyler, and  in Panola County, as well as in western LA and FL.

The old, insular, parochial, old timey religion hating power is almost over.  The young evangelical and fundamentalist youth think their parents and grand parents are wrong about so many things on race, politics, marriage, and so forth.

Allied with other youth and rising Hispanic power, Texas is destined to go blue in the next times years if folks like you do not look up and see what's coming down the RR track.


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## koshergrl

Sure it is.

That's why they had to ship protesters in.


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## JakeStarkey

Right, kg, if that means anything.

You are truly low information, period, but don't lecture your betters about Texas and its politics.

You have no idea.


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## daveman

JakeStarkey said:


> Right, kg, if that means anything.
> 
> You are truly low information, period, but don't lecture your betters about Texas and its politics.
> 
> You have no idea.


She's not lecturing her betters.

She's lecturing you.


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## JakeStarkey

kgrill does not understand that her world view is not the definition of reality.

daveman has the same problem.

In that sense they are the mirror equivalents of poet and Mr. Shaman.


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## AmyNation

Thread closed.


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