# 10-year anniversary of Baghdad fall to US forces



## longknife (Apr 10, 2013)

By DIAA HADID and QASSIM ABDUL-ZAHRA, The Associated Press
Published: April 9, 2013






View Photo Gallery » 

In this Saturday, April 6, 2013 photo, an Iraqi man pours water onto the grave of his father, who was killed during a fight with U.S. forces, at a cemetery in Baghdad, Iraq. Ten years ago, a statue fell in Paradise Square. Joyful Iraqis helped by a U.S. Army tank retriever pulled down their longtime dictator, cast as 16 feet of bronze. The scene broadcast live worldwide became an icon for a war, a symbol of final victory over Saddam Hussein. But for the people of Baghdad, it was only the beginning. The toppling of the statue on April 9, 2003, remains a potent symbol that has divided Iraqis ever since.



> Karim Kadim/AP
> 
> BAGHDAD  Ten years ago, a statue fell in Baghdad's Firdous Square. Joyful Iraqis helped by an American tank retriever pulled down their longtime dictator, cast as 16 feet of bronze. The scene broadcast live worldwide became an icon of the war, a symbol of final victory over Saddam Hussein.



Read and see more pix @ 10-year anniversary of Baghdad fall to US forces - Middle East - Stripes


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## georgephillip (May 20, 2013)

What do you suppose the next ten years will bring for Baghdad besides more corruption?

"Why is the corruption in Iraq so bad? 

"*The simple answer that Iraqis give is that 'UN sanctions destroyed Iraqi society in the 1990s and the Americans destroyed the Iraqi state after 2003*'.

"Patronage based on party, family or community determines who gets a job. 

"There are many  winners as well as losers and all depends on Iraqi oil exports going up and prices staying high. 'I only once saw panic in the cabinet,' says an ex-minister, 'and that was when there was a sharp drop in the price of oil.'"


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## Desperado (May 20, 2013)

After 10 years the average citizens of the US and Iraq are no better off then they were before the war.


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## Wry Catcher (May 20, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> What do you suppose the next ten years will bring for Baghdad besides more corruption?
> 
> "Why is the corruption in Iraq so bad?
> 
> ...



The simple answer was detailed in "Fiasco".  An important read particularly as the Ministers of Truth spend so much time rewriting history.


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## georgephillip (May 20, 2013)

If this map is accurate the future of Iraq requires division into three parts:
Arab Shia state
Sunni Iraq
Baghdad City state

These changes and others may be required for the Ministers of Truth to bring forth "Free Kurdistan"

And then, on to Africa?


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## longknife (May 20, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> What do you suppose the next ten years will bring for Baghdad besides more corruption?
> 
> "Why is the corruption in Iraq so bad?
> 
> ...



You really hate America so much that you blame us for everything?

ALL Middle East societies are "corrupt" and cannot govern themselves. American intervention has nothing to do with it.


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## longknife (May 20, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> If this map is accurate the future of Iraq requires division into three parts:
> Arab Shia state
> Sunni Iraq
> Baghdad City state
> ...



You forgot the Kurdish state which is actually prospering with little terror attacks. They're even withdrawing the PPK from Turkey which can only increase their chances for more economic growth.


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## georgephillip (May 20, 2013)

longknife said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > What do you suppose the next ten years will bring for Baghdad besides more corruption?
> ...


American intervention in Iraq resulted in the maiming, murder, incarceration, and displacement of millions of Iraqi civilians. If that has nothing to do with corruption, what does?


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## georgephillip (May 20, 2013)

longknife said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > If this map is accurate the future of Iraq requires division into three parts:
> ...


Kurds are likely to receive a sovereign state for the first time in the history of their nation.
Should this occur Iraq, Turkey, Iran, and possibly Syria will be required to give up some of their current nation states. It's likely any "solution" to the civil war currently waging in Syria will require a redrawing of the Middle Eastern borders originally imposed by France and Britain at the end of WWI. Some of the same western oil corporations that benefited from the original partitioning of Arab oil stand to win big again when the new borders come into play.

The War on Lebanon and the Battle for Oil | Global Research


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (May 20, 2013)

Ten year anniversary of thousands of needless deaths all to spread imperialism.


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## georgephillip (May 20, 2013)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Ten year anniversary of thousands of needless deaths all to spread imperialism.


And Wesley knew that in November of 2001:

"'As I went back through the Pentagon in November 2001, one of the senior military staff officers had time for a chat. Yes, we were still on track for going against Iraq, he said. But there was more. This was being discussed as part of a five-year campaign plan, he said, and there were a total of seven countries, beginning with Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Iran, Somalia and Sudan.'"

Wesley Clark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## numan (May 20, 2013)

'

IRAQ -- another shameful chapter in American history -- which already has so many shameful chapters.

.


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## numan (May 20, 2013)

longknife said:


> You really hate America so much that you blame us for everything?


America cannot be blamed for everything that goes wrong in the world, but the people who rule America have had their hand in much of what has been evil in the world.

It is a difficult question to decide: whether the Nazis have committed more evil or the American Elite.

The Nazis certainly did more evil in a short period of time, but the American Elite have certainly equalled or surpassed the Nazis in the longer decades since the Second World War.
.


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## numan (May 20, 2013)

Desperado said:


> After 10 years the average citizens of the US and Iraq are no better off then they were before the war.


Indeed, the average citizens of both Iraq AND  the USA are _worse_ off than they were before the war.

.


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## Dugdale_Jukes (May 20, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> > Ten year anniversary of thousands of needless deaths all to spread imperialism.
> ...



Clark would have been a great choice in 2004. Democrats really fucked that up. Still, in their defense, who would have believed the white trash scum of the earth were depraved enough to re elect Junebug?


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## numan (May 20, 2013)

Dugdale_Jukes said:


> Still...who would have believed the white trash scum of the earth were depraved enough to re elect Junebug?


Well, considering the well-researched stories about voting irregularities in Ohio, including investigations by members of Congress, perhaps W. Bush *wasn't* elected President in 2004.






*The front page of the British Daily Mirror after the 2004 vote*

,


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## georgephillip (May 20, 2013)

Dugdale_Jukes said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> ...


Does it bother you at all that someone who probably would have made a much better commander-in-chief than anyone since Ike knew for a fact we were going into Iraq in November of 2001 AND there were six more dominoes slated to fall within the next decade AND he kept his mouth shut?


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## Dugdale_Jukes (May 20, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Dugdale_Jukes said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



No. If you knew Clark (and many do) you would know that he understood how Clinton and Cohen marginalized him for refusing to fight the war they wanted to fight over Kosova. When they forced him out to prevent him getting a lot of political horsepower after HIS victory, he proved the old business school saw about being "dead right" [one can stop at a stop sign, look both ways, and still get killed by a drunk going through the one on either side]. 

In sum Clark got blamed for everything but the disappearance of Judge Crater. By 2001 he was on his own. He owed nothing to anybody and anything he would have said would have been used to further marginalize him. 

Clark 2004 is probably the greatest missed opportunity for the United States of the last thirty-five years.


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## georgephillip (May 21, 2013)

Dugdale_Jukes said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Dugdale_Jukes said:
> ...


Clark, Cohen, and Clinton all qualify as war criminals for their decisions in Kosovo, if you know what I mean. One of the three goals Wesley set for himself in civilian life was to earn $40 million dollars. By 2003 he had amassed only $3.1 million and that might have been his primary inspiration for seeking public office instead of advancing his corporate career.

Given the millions of Iraqis and thousands of Americans who paid with their lives, limbs, homes, and freedom since Clark had that meeting in the Pentagon in November 2001, "dead wrong" seems like an appropriate epitaph for Wesley. 

Wesley Clark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## numan (May 21, 2013)

Dugdale_Jukes said:


> In sum Clark got blamed for everything but the disappearance of Judge Crater.


Now, that is a real period-piece!! I haven't heard it for ages.

I'm afraid that it dates you -- and me -- though. · · 
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## freedombecki (May 21, 2013)

numan said:


> '
> 
> IRAQ -- another shameful chapter in American history -- which already has so many shameful chapters.
> 
> .


I think you write Obama speeches addressing Europeans, numan.


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## ELITEofWarman8 (May 22, 2013)

Desperado said:


> After 10 years the average citizens of the US and Iraq are no better off then they were before the war.



Amen to that. This was another wasted effort on our part.


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## numan (May 26, 2013)

ELITEofWarman8 said:


> Desperado said:
> 
> 
> > After 10 years the average citizens of the US and Iraq are no better off then they were before the war.
> ...


Oh, don't say that!! The Military-Industrial Conspiracy and the War Profiteers made a heap of money out of it.

You weren't silly enough to think it was fought for _your_ benefit, were you?
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