# High Schools Failing to Prepare Students for College



## KMAN (Sep 15, 2008)

This shouldn't surprise anyone but I thought I would post it anyway.  Public schools are failing miserably in this country.  



Ohio.com - Colleges are spending billions on freshman remedial classes


----------



## dilloduck (Sep 15, 2008)

KMAN said:


> This shouldn't surprise anyone but I thought I would post it anyway.  Public schools are failing miserably in this country.
> 
> 
> 
> Ohio.com - Colleges are spending billions on freshman remedial classes



at least they know how to put on condoms and like homosexuals---don't be so damn hard on them


----------



## jillian (Sep 15, 2008)

KMAN said:


> This shouldn't surprise anyone but I thought I would post it anyway.  Public schools are failing miserably in this country.
> 
> 
> 
> Ohio.com - Colleges are spending billions on freshman remedial classes



You don't really believe that anyone who was an "A" student needed remedial English, do you?

Schools are doing better in NY. Maybe Ohio should learn from us.


----------



## editec (Sep 15, 2008)

SOME public schools are failing.

Others are doing superb jobs.

Statistically speaking, the wealthier the community students are drawn from, the more likely the kids are to get a superior education.

There are exceptions, of couse, but that's, generally speaking, the way it is in America.

And that's NOT all just because of the money invested in their edcuations, either. (although it certainly can't be entire ignored)

The fact is if you go to a school where the average kid is poor, _even if you are a motivated student,_ it can be very difficult to get a decent education.

The staff are busy dealing with kids who don't care, and often the educators are simply weary of being turned into prison guards and nursemaids, and not longer really able to teach in that environment.

They develop the educator's equivalent of compassion fatigue, I think.

When I taught I used to throw disruptive kids out of class just to make it possible for my kids who were interested to carry on.

Eventually, of course, the administration forced me to stop that editecian triage system of educating, and then the whole damned class could be totally disrupted by one genuine asshole or the other.


----------



## Silence (Sep 15, 2008)

No Child Left Behind indeed


----------



## strollingbones (Sep 15, 2008)

teachers are given little or no methods to control a class....you are 2nd guessed by the admin then if the parents come and say little sallie is sorry....note the parents not the student then they are put back in the class...and heaven forbid they be a star football player who cannot read nor write but can run a football...heaven forbid you fail that student.


----------



## Alpha1 (Sep 15, 2008)

jillian said:


> You don't really believe that anyone who was an "A" student needed remedial English, do you?
> 
> Schools are doing better in NY. Maybe Ohio should learn from us.



remedial English?   Maybe, maybe not....

more than likely they need remedial algebra or some other math subject...


----------



## dilloduck (Sep 15, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> teachers are given little or no methods to control a class....you are 2nd guessed by the admin then if the parents come and say little sallie is sorry....note the parents not the student then they are put back in the class...and heaven forbid they be a star football player who cannot read nor write but can run a football...heaven forbid you fail that student.



But their self esteem kicks ass I bet ! !!!


----------



## jillian (Sep 15, 2008)

Alpha1 said:


> remedial English?   Maybe, maybe not....
> 
> more than likely they need remedial algebra or some other math subject...



That might be true.

I hope one would have to be up to snuff to be an "A" student, even in math or science, but I guess that would depend on the curriculum. Kind of illustrates the benefits of "teaching to the test" like they do here. Of course, there is a downside to that type of curriculum,too.


----------



## rayboyusmc (Sep 16, 2008)

Are the charter and private schools doing that much better?


----------



## HoleInTheVoid (Sep 16, 2008)

Silence said:


> No Child Left Behind indeed


NCLB authors:

Rep. George Miller (D-CA)

Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-Chappaquidick)


Indeed


----------



## Skull Pilot (Sep 16, 2008)

if you want your kids to get a decent education, home school them.

*"Even with a conservative analysis of the data, the achievement levels of the homeschool students in the study were exceptional. Within each grade level and each skill area, the median scores for homeschool students fell between the 70th and 80th percentile of students nationwide and between the 60th and 70th percentile of Catholic/Private school students. For younger students, this is a one year lead. By the time homeschool students are in 8th grade, they are four years ahead of their public/private school counterparts."*


----------



## KittenKoder (Sep 22, 2008)

lewbbs08 said:


> You don't really believe that anyone who was an "A" student needed remedial English, do you?



You'd be surprised at how easy it is to get A's in school.


----------



## IndyVoter&Rockr (Sep 28, 2008)

Editec I couldn't agree with you more. I graduated high school 4 years ago with mostly all A's and B's. I went to college and in english class I wrote a paper and the professor said she couldn't believe how stupid the class was at grammar. I literally had to go and teach my self English. I then realized I never wrote one essay in my 4 years of high school. 

I would agree with Editec that the problem is disruptive kids left in class. If a child doesn't want to be in school let him join the work force, or send him to a vocational school. The disruptive students distract the children who really want learn. They tend to be the bullies and physically harm other students. It would save more money for education. We really need to leave this kids behind.


----------



## Shattered (Sep 30, 2008)

KittenKoder said:


> You'd be surprised at how easy it is to get A's in school.



Unfortunately, you don't have to know anything to get A's in school.  I'm stunned more and more every day.. I have kids from the ages of 18-25 working for me, and it amazes me they can't do simple math, and get totally confused even with a calculator at their disposal.


----------



## William Joyce (Oct 1, 2008)

Charles Murray is right:  only about 20 percent of the people now in American colleges actually deserve to be getting higher education.  I don't know if I'd cut it off there right now... maybe 50 percent.  But you've got all these folks who would be much better off in tech school or vo-tech getting force-fed French feminism.  It's ridiculous.  A college degree has almost negative value in our society today.  It's massively inflated currency.  Today, to distinguish yourself, you pretty much need 2 PhD's, a JD and an MD.


----------



## William Joyce (Oct 1, 2008)

jillian said:


> Schools are doing better in NY. Maybe Ohio should learn from us.



Er, I think Shaker Heights would easily whip East New York, just as the Upper East Side is going to easily whip downtown Cleveland.


----------



## Angel Heart (Oct 1, 2008)

rayboyusmc said:


> Are the charter and private schools doing that much better?



They do around here. They are the children that excel. The local school can't compare to the charters. I have 2 of my children attending one an hope to have the other two in very soon. The waiting lists at all of the charters are extremely long. Thankfully there's sibling priority when there's an opening.

As for private... One of the best in the world isn't far from me.  

portland waldorf school


----------



## Luissa (Oct 1, 2008)

Skull Pilot said:


> if you want your kids to get a decent education, home school them.
> 
> *"Even with a conservative analysis of the data, the achievement levels of the homeschool students in the study were exceptional. Within each grade level and each skill area, the median scores for homeschool students fell between the 70th and 80th percentile of students nationwide and between the 60th and 70th percentile of Catholic/Private school students. For younger students, this is a one year lead. By the time homeschool students are in 8th grade, they are four years ahead of their public/private school counterparts."*


yeah so they can be socially out of touch!


----------



## editec (Oct 1, 2008)

strollingbones said:


> teachers are given little or no methods to control a class....you are 2nd guessed by the admin then if the parents come and say little sallie is sorry....note the parents not the student then they are put back in the class...and heaven forbid they be a star football player who cannot read nor write but can run a football...heaven forbid you fail that student.


 
Bet your ass.

I was out of the running for a very good full time post because I refused to pass a kid who couldn't READ but who could stuff a basketball though a hoop, once.

Sports are part of the problem of why our schools are failing, now, folks.

Football in particular has problem done more to destroy history education (at one point 50% of a high school football coaches were history teachers..mostly those coach/teachers suck at the teaching part of their jobs) than any other sport, but they're ALL a menace to education in my opinion.


----------



## editec (Oct 1, 2008)

Angel Heart said:


> They do around here. They are the children that excel. The local school can't compare to the charters. I have 2 of my children attending one an hope to have the other two in very soon. The waiting lists at all of the charters are extremely long. Thankfully there's sibling priority when there's an opening.
> 
> As for private... One of the best in the world isn't far from me.
> 
> portland waldorf school


 

Well of COURSE charter schools do better.

They get to pick and choose what kids attend that school.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Oct 1, 2008)

Luissa27 said:


> yeah so they can be socially out of touch!



That's Bullshit and you know it.

I have friends who home school their kids and they are more socially engaged than the zoned out i pod in their ears teens I see hanging around the local public high school.

They are involved in music, sports, their church etc.  you can actually have an intelligent conversation with these kids.  Not like the public high school rejects I've hired that can't even count back change.


----------



## editec (Oct 1, 2008)

SOME homeschool kids are doing very well and SOME are basically getting nothing from their homeschools.

It basically depends on the parents doin gthe job well.

Maine is one of those places where homeschooling your kids is a right.

Mixed results is what we seem to be getting

We homeschooled our son for some subjects (basically the humanities) and for others he attended high school (math and science).

Guess which subjects he still excels in?  The humanities, of course.

But that's probably not entirely fair to the school, either since he is intellectually given to getting humanities and like most people, really has to work to get math and sciences.

Homeschooling should be a RIGHT, folks.


----------



## PoliticalChic (Oct 6, 2008)

editec said:


> SOME homeschool kids are doing very well and SOME are basically getting nothing from their homeschools.
> 
> It basically depends on the parents doin gthe job well.
> 
> ...



Absolutely, not everyone that homeschools does a great job.  But speaking generally, homeschooled kids do better on standardized tests.  

I've been homeschooling my kids for 4 years and I've been very happy with the results.  It should be right.

As to them being socially inept -- there could be a few, but most of the ones we see are well-socialized, and able to speak comfortably to people of all ages, not just kids their age.


----------



## KittenKoder (Oct 6, 2008)

PoliticalChic said:


> Absolutely, not everyone that homeschools does a great job.  But speaking generally, homeschooled kids do better on standardized tests.
> 
> I've been homeschooling my kids for 4 years and I've been very happy with the results.  It should be right.
> 
> As to them being socially inept -- there could be a few, but most of the ones we see are well-socialized, and able to speak comfortably to people of all ages, not just kids their age.



I think homeschooling is a good idea, aside from the simple facts that kids do learn better when they are the focus of the class, also then no one can complain about them being taught science and if they want to fill the little ones heads with religious bull they can.

The problem is that many parents are too lazy to make it work now. I Washington state it's a right as well, though I think it should be monitored a little more than it is, but it still works better in most cases where the parents want to homeschool.


----------



## Annie (Oct 6, 2008)

editec said:


> SOME public schools are failing.
> 
> Others are doing superb jobs.
> 
> ...


The heart of the problem. I don't know how long ago you taught, but now add in 'mainstreaming' to the mix. Literally there are kids on ventilators with alarms going off in class. There are low functioning autistic kids that scream out or bang their helmet against desks or walls. Of course it depends on the district and how 'committed' they are to mainstreaming, but it's not conducive to education of the vast majority of kids.


----------



## Luissa (Oct 6, 2008)

editec said:


> SOME homeschool kids are doing very well and SOME are basically getting nothing from their homeschools.
> 
> It basically depends on the parents doin gthe job well.
> 
> ...


Every kid I have ever met that was homeschooled had little social skills! Most were religious and their parents were afaired of what they would encounter going to school. I think if you want to homeschool your kids that is your right to do so but like most do you shouldn't shelter your child from certain things they should be apart of as a child.
One girl I knew who was homeschool only went to church, that was her prime social function and the first thing she did when she turned eighteen was get pregnant.
The kid who babysat my child for awhile was homeschooled and his mom didn't keep up with it and he was failing his courses plus I think the prime reason he wanted to be homeschooled was do to the fact he was gay. If people do it right and have their children join other programs that are social then it can work out somewhat. People need to learn that they can't shelter their children from everything all the time and that one day they are going to grow up and have to face the real world.


----------



## random3434 (Oct 6, 2008)

Kathianne said:


> The heart of the problem. I don't know how long ago you taught, but now add in 'mainstreaming' to the mix. Literally there are kids on ventilators with alarms going off in class. There are low functioning autistic kids that scream out or bang their helmet against desks or walls. Of course it depends on the district and how 'committed' they are to mainstreaming, but it's not conducive to education of the vast majority of kids.



This is a dilemma, because we want equal rights for all children in education, but is a general ed. classroom really the best place for their learning needs? 

It depends on each child, some can be successful in inclusion, others need more one on one and small group instruction.

I'm lucky, I get to teach in a self-contained classroom to kids with LD, MiMH and autism. Right now I just have 8 kids grades 1-3 and they are learning so much! No way would they get that kind of small group instruction in a gen. ed classroom with 25 kids. 

I love my job and I love my students, but I'm waiting for the ball to drop and "they" will tell me they are closing my room and mainstreaming my kids.


----------



## PoliticalChic (Oct 6, 2008)

Luissa27 said:


> Every kid I have ever met that was homeschooled had little social skills! Most were religious and their parents were afaired of what they would encounter going to school. I think if you want to homeschool your kids that is your right to do so but like most do you shouldn't shelter your child from certain things they should be apart of as a child.
> One girl I knew who was homeschool only went to church, that was her prime social function and the first thing she did when she turned eighteen was get pregnant.
> The kid who babysat my child for awhile was homeschooled and his mom didn't keep up with it and he was failing his courses plus I think the prime reason he wanted to be homeschooled was do to the fact he was gay. If people do it right and have their children join other programs that are social then it can work out somewhat. People need to learn that they can't shelter their children from everything all the time and that one day they are going to grow up and have to face the real world.



That is sad to hear.  Some of these parents want to protect their children, but to shelter them so is tantamount to child abuse.  I think parents like this those give a bad face to homeschooling.  I live in an area, where I come in contact with many homeschoolers.  Most of them homeschool, but not due to religious reasons.  I was amazed at the poise and maturity of most these children.  

I take my daughter to a ballet studio where a homeschooler works and takes classes there.  She is only in 9th grade and she comes across as an adult.  She speaks beautifully and babysits a toddler at the studio while the toddler's mom teaches.

I haven't come across any religious folks who alienate themselves from non-believers.  No doubt, they do exist.  I do not agree with such people and although they homeschool, I have little in common with them.  But in some small way I can empathize with why they would want to protect their children in such a manner.  

But let's keep in mind that homeschooler is a broad term and there are many types of homeschooling.  Let's not lump good apples with the few wormy ones.


----------



## Annie (Oct 6, 2008)

Echo Zulu said:


> This is a dilemma, because we want equal rights for all children in education, but is a general ed. classroom really the best place for their learning needs?
> 
> It depends on each child, some can be successful in inclusion, others need more one on one and small group instruction.
> 
> ...



I applaud you! I couldn't do your job. The kids that should be mainstreamed, such as dyslexics, processing problems, etc., well I'm all for that. On the other hand, Down's syndrome kids in jr high math? A child with hydroencephalitis, on a ventilator? This is a real problem that started before, but was escalated by NCLB.


----------



## random3434 (Oct 6, 2008)

Kathianne said:


> I applaud you! I couldn't do your job. The kids that should be mainstreamed, such as dyslexics, processing problems, etc., well I'm all for that. On the other hand, Down's syndrome kids in jr high math? A child with hydroencephalitis, on a ventilator? This is a real problem that started before, but was escalated by NCLB.



Thank you! 

Like I said, I love my job, but you're right, NCLB is NOT fair to the children in many ways. That's an entire other thread, right? 

We, the EDUCATORS, should write the laws, not somebody that hasn't been in a classroom for years, or have NEVER been in one!


----------



## Luissa (Oct 6, 2008)

PoliticalChic said:


> That is sad to hear.  Some of these parents want to protect their children, but to shelter them so is tantamount to child abuse.  I think parents like this those give a bad face to homeschooling.  I live in an area, where I come in contact with many homeschoolers.  Most of them homeschool, but not due to religious reasons.  I was amazed at the poise and maturity of most these children.
> 
> I take my daughter to a ballet studio where a homeschooler works and takes classes there.  She is only in 9th grade and she comes across as an adult.  She speaks beautifully and babysits a toddler at the studio while the toddler's mom teaches.
> 
> ...



And maybe I have a tainted view because of the area I live in! I live in a good size metro area but small towns near by plus North Idaho only 30 to 45 minutes away. I think homeschooling is getting better because they have social outings for the children. My problem is the parents who choose not to use these resources to help their children with social skills.
Some ethnic groups such as Hutterites to maintain their way of life and have their own social network. 
My problem is with the families that live in seclusion and keep their children in seclusion only teaching them what they want to teach them.


----------



## PoliticalChic (Oct 7, 2008)

Luissa27 said:


> And maybe I have a tainted view because of the area I live in! I live in a good size metro area but small towns near by plus North Idaho only 30 to 45 minutes away. I think homeschooling is getting better because they have social outings for the children. My problem is the parents who choose not to use these resources to help their children with social skills.
> Some ethnic groups such as Hutterites to maintain their way of life and have their own social network.
> My problem is with the families that live in seclusion and keep their children in seclusion only teaching them what they want to teach them.



I believe that the indoctrination of their religious beliefs is what comes first for these extremely religious folks.  They may also put a lot of fear into their children to avoid "outsiders."  I don't agree with this.


----------



## PoliticalChic (Oct 7, 2008)

It is a sad statement that our public education has deteriorated to the point that millions of families have resorted to homeschooling.  

Teachers having to become disciplinarians instead of educators...  How can a teacher teach in an environment where the children do not behave and do not listen?  I have a friend who is a teacher in the 2nd grade in a p.s. and she tells me that the parents in her district do not care.  They don't even sign and send back the permission slips so that his/her child can go on a field trip.  Not to even mention the bureaucracy.  Most teachers I know hate their job.  

I think there needs to be a complete overhaul and Florida mandating virtual schools is a start.  Let there be all types of schooling -- virtual schools, private schools, charter schoolers, homeschooling.  Give parents choices.  Let's not keep putting money into a failed system.


----------



## editec (Oct 7, 2008)

Kathianne said:


> The heart of the problem. I don't know how long ago you taught, but now add in 'mainstreaming' to the mix. Literally there are kids on ventilators with alarms going off in class. There are low functioning autistic kids that scream out or bang their helmet against desks or walls. Of course it depends on the district and how 'committed' they are to mainstreaming, but it's not conducive to education of the vast majority of kids.


 
I lost ANOTHER permanent teaching post because I do NOT believe in a heterogenious educational sytem.

Basically I think that by the time kids get to high school, putting extremely smart kids in the same classroom with extremely stupid kids is _highly counterproductive._

So lets recap, shall we?

Editec once lost a job because the right wing assholes running a school in Cambridge were pissed that he wouldn't pass one of their basketball heros AND

Editec ALSO once lost a post because the he wouldn't sign onto the educational philosophy of that Brookline school's left wing LIBERAL assholes.

You beginning to see what I'm saying here, folks?

Schools are screwed because our society is screwy.

*All I wanted to do was TEACH HISTORY...not prove or disprove anyone's edcuational philisophy or pander to some college's need (Duke Univ.) for a basketball center.*


But noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...the administrators in those schools had other agendas, and my EDUCATING their students was the last thing on their list of things that were important.


----------



## Unkotare (Apr 24, 2017)

editec said:


> SOME public schools are failing.
> 
> Others are doing superb jobs.
> 
> ...






What a shit attitude.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Apr 24, 2017)

PoliticalChic said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> > SOME homeschool kids are doing very well and SOME are basically getting nothing from their homeschools.
> ...



There is that bald-faced lie again!  When are you homeschooling advocates going to educate yourself in statistics so that you can see how wrong you are?

Please tell me which standardized test was used to test EVERY home-schooled student and EVERY public school student so that a valid comparison could be made.  Until you can do that, you are merely pissing in the wind!


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Apr 24, 2017)

PoliticalChic said:


> It is a sad statement that our public education has deteriorated to the point that millions of families have resorted to homeschooling.
> 
> Teachers having to become disciplinarians instead of educators...  How can a teacher teach in an environment where the children do not behave and do not listen?  I have a friend who is a teacher in the 2nd grade in a p.s. and she tells me that the parents in her district do not care.  They don't even sign and send back the permission slips so that his/her child can go on a field trip.  Not to even mention the bureaucracy.  Most teachers I know hate their job.
> 
> I think there needs to be a complete overhaul and Florida mandating virtual schools is a start.  Let there be all types of schooling -- virtual schools, private schools, charter schoolers, homeschooling.  Give parents choices.  Let's not keep putting money into a failed system.



Florida has had virtual schools for at least a decade.  Where have you been?  My son took classes on-line from the Florida Virtual School back in 2005.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Apr 24, 2017)

And the republican solution will kick out half the lower part of this nation....

They have no solutions besides kiss the rich mans ass....


----------



## Unkotare (Apr 24, 2017)

editec said:


> Kathianne said:
> 
> 
> > The heart of the problem. I don't know how long ago you taught, but now add in 'mainstreaming' to the mix. Literally there are kids on ventilators with alarms going off in class. There are low functioning autistic kids that scream out or bang their helmet against desks or walls. Of course it depends on the district and how 'committed' they are to mainstreaming, but it's not conducive to education of the vast majority of kids.
> ...










"Right wing school in Cambridge".


----------



## PoliticalChic (Apr 25, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > editec said:
> ...





The only liar here is you.

Now...watch me bury you again, you dunce.

"Research shows that home-schooled students are certainly capable of adjusting to the college curriculum academically – *home-schooled students generally score slightly above the national average on both the SAT and the ACT *and often enter college with more college credits. Studies have also shown that on average home-schooled students have higher grade point averages in their freshman years and have higher graduation rates than their peers."
Do home-schoolers do better in college than traditional students?


In your face, boyyyyeeeeeeee!!!!!!


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Apr 28, 2017)

PoliticalChic said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



You cite an article by a newspaper with no information detailed on the study itself.  I take it you were home-schooled also, simply because you are not that smart.

I already destroyed the argument you made because not every student is required to take the SAT or ACT.  it is a statistical lie to establish a comparison based on flawed data.  My public school students are ALL required to take it during their junior year, including kids who are emotionally and mentally retarded (to put it terms you might understand).  How do you think that effects the average score when you consider that there is no incentive for these students to do well if they are not planning on attending college?  

One of my students told me yesterday that his goal in life is to drive Amish farmers around in a van so they can do their shopping in town. Apparently that is what his high school dropout father does and makes a decent chunk of change.  How well do you think he will do on the ACT?

If he were home-schooled, he would never be required to take that test.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Apr 28, 2017)

And your solution? Oh'yess, cut its funding and abolish it. lol....I am turning blue laughing at the idea.


----------



## PoliticalChic (Apr 29, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...




These were your words, the ones I rammed back down your throat:

"Please tell me which standardized test was used blah blah blah...."


This was my answer, which did the 'ramming' in a succinct and effective manner:

"– *home-schooled students generally score slightly above the national average on both the SAT and the ACT ..."



Clearly, you are unhappy with the results of your parenting.

I was more than happy to force you to reveal that.




If you posted in the hopes of hiding your ineptitude, clearly, your plan didn't work.*


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Apr 29, 2017)

PoliticalChic said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



You are so stupid you don't even realize that you are stupid.  I suggest getting an education about education.

Those tests are NOT used, as they are not required to be given to all public schools students and they are definitely not required  for ANY home school students.

That makes any comparison you are pathetically attempting to make null and void.  Try to get an apples to apples comparison before you embarrass yourself yet again.


----------



## frigidweirdo (Apr 29, 2017)

KMAN said:


> This shouldn't surprise anyone but I thought I would post it anyway.  Public schools are failing miserably in this country.
> 
> 
> 
> Ohio.com - Colleges are spending billions on freshman remedial classes



The problem in the US is that there is no aim for education. Colleges are saying one thing, schools something else. Who is right? Probably neither. 

Until the US figures out what the point of education is, this will continue to be a problem.


----------



## PoliticalChic (Apr 29, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



You wrote this:

"Please tell me which standardized test was used blah blah blah...."


This was my answer, which did the 'ramming' in a succinct and effective manner:

"– *home-schooled students generally score slightly above the national average on both the SAT and the ACT ..."



Clearly, you are unhappy with the results of your parenting.

I was more than happy to force you to reveal that.




If you posted in the hopes of hiding your ineptitude, clearly, your plan didn't work.



Homeschooling is more successful than government schooling....to suggest otherwise would require one who is dissatisfied with the results of their educational choices....as dope like you.

Now, you've been schooled.....be gone.*


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Apr 29, 2017)

PoliticalChic said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



So now you are simply repeating your lies.  Why is that?  You have no valid comparison, no actual source and Ike most home-schoolers, no real idea how education should be accomplished. If you home-schooled your kids with that attitude, you are guilty of child neglect.


----------



## PoliticalChic (Apr 29, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...





1.  I never lie.  Never.

2. I've slapped you around twice already.....even a rented mule doesn't require as much remediation as you do....

3. " no actual source and Ike most home-schoolers, no real idea how education should be accomplished. If you home-schooled your kids with that attitude, you are guilty of child neglect."

As I stated earlier, you seem to be attempting to assuage a sense of guilt in your children's schooling....
...and this comment would be evidence of exactly that.


4.Since *I get that warm, fuzzy feeling that only cruelty to the stupid can provide....I will continue to do that very thing:

"Studies suggest that those who go on to college will outperform their peers.

Students coming from a home school graduated college at a higher rate than their peers—66.7 percent compared to 57.5 percent—and earned higher grade point averages along the way, according to a study that compared students at one doctoral university from 2004-2009.

They're also better socialized than most high school students, says Joe Kelly, an author and parenting expert who home-schooled his twin daughters."
https://www.usnews.com/education/hi...12/06/01/home-schooled-teens-ripe-for-college



Now....wipe the egg off your face, you dunce.....and the drool.

No....wait: it's an improvement.*


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Apr 29, 2017)

PoliticalChic said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



Yes, you lie repeatedly, mostly to yourself!

Sp where is this study that you conveniently forgot to cite,?  (Red text)

Did you not know the meaning of the word "one" in your comment about graduation rates? (Green text)

You even admit that your source is biased by cutting and pasting from the linked article. (Blue text)

Answer these points.  Why do you continue to quote biased sources and then fail to understand how they prove nothing of what you claim?

You would receive a failing grade on this assignment in any public school, but would probably give your kids an A+ for similar shoddy work.


----------



## PoliticalChic (Apr 29, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...




Let's see.....I've smacked you in the kisser twice? Thrice?

Let's make it a quad:


"...new r*esearch showing that the average home-schooler who takes standardized achievement tests is doing very well. *The study, commissioned by the Home School Legal Defense Association and conducted by Brian Ray, an internationally recognized scholar and president of the nonprofit National Home Education Research Institute (NHERI), is called “Progress Report 2009: Homeschool Academic Achievement and Demographics.”

The study included almost 12,000 home-school students from all 50 states who *took three well-known standardized achievements tests — the California Achievement Test, the Iowa Test of Basic Skills and the Stanford Achievement Test —* for the 2007-08 academic year. The students were drawn from 15 independent testing services, making it *the most comprehensive home-school academic study to date.*

The results reinforced previous home-school studies conducted over a period of 25 years.

*Five areas of academic pursuit were measured. In reading, the average home-schooler scored at the 89th percentile; language, 84th percentile; math, 84th percentile; science, 86th percentile; and social studies, 84th percentile. In the core studies (reading, language and math), the average home-schooler scored at the 88th percentile.*

*The average public school student taking these standardized tests scored at the 50th percentile in each subject area."*
HOME-SCHOOLING: Outstanding results on national tests




So.....your fallacious argument is destroyed yet again.

What more is there to say, except that you have been proven....*proven*....to be a dunce and a liar.



I'm gonna guess that anyone who has had to deal with you knows that early on.

True?


----------



## regent (Apr 29, 2017)

Are all students, home schooled or not, capable of a college education?


----------



## PoliticalChic (Apr 30, 2017)

regent said:


> Are all students, home schooled or not, capable of a college education?




Now, reggie....in light of the many times I've tried to educate you- providing undeniable data, facts and quotes, about the iniquities of Franklin Roosevelt....yet you continue to swoon at his feet.....

...how can you ask if every student is educable????


You silly boy.


Nor is college required for your chosen profession, greeting the shoppers at Walmart.....

True?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Apr 30, 2017)

PoliticalChic said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



Once again you have proven yourself a poor reader and simply do not understand the problem.

Those "standardized tests" you cite are NOT given in most schools.   In fact, in 20 years of teaching, in numerous schools districts, in two states and for the Department of Defense, only the Stanford Achievement Test was ever given and that was to the Department of Defense Dependent Schools, of which there are a whopping two small high schools in the entire DODEA system here in the US.

You need to take a good statistics course at the college level to understand why your comparisons are simply invalid,

You can quote your biased statistics all day long, but the truth is that there is no valid comparison possible until ALL home-schooled children are required to take the same tests as the public and charter school students.

That is why most comparisons between charter and public schools are also invalid.

Keep on trying if you want to waste your time and embarrass yourself even further, but I getting tired of handing your ass to you and you blowing it off because you are simply too ignorant to understand the issue.


----------



## PoliticalChic (Apr 30, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...





I've already proven you a liar and a dunce.

What more is there to say?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Apr 30, 2017)

PoliticalChic said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



You haven't proven anything about me.  All you did is prove how little you know about education, statistics, and reading comprehension.

The only thing left to say is that you apologize for being a dick and admit your error.


----------



## PoliticalChic (Apr 30, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...




OK, you dunce....who's your mama???  

Admit it- I spanked you good and plenty. 


Now...say it: homeschooling has been proven...PROVEN....better than government schooling.


Then....back into the sewer with you.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Apr 30, 2017)

PoliticalChic said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...




The only thing you have proven is what a major asshole you are.  Goodbye, *xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx*


----------



## ScienceRocks (Apr 30, 2017)

PoliticalChic said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



Except 90% of parents don't have the time to home school because it takes both of them working to survive. 85% of kids in this country go to public school and it works for the most part...Do you really want to destroy something that works 80%+ of the time?


----------



## ScienceRocks (Apr 30, 2017)

honestly, I'd whether see more online classes starting in middle school into ones high school years.

It would be cheaper and would allow the student to focus without dealing with bullshit on campus.


----------



## JoeMoma (Apr 30, 2017)

regent said:


> Are all students, home schooled or not, capable of a college education?


Easy question, especially the way you used the word "All!  No!


----------



## JoeMoma (Apr 30, 2017)

Matthew said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


Why do you think home schooling would destroy public schooling?  It's not going to do that.  Home schooling is not for everyone, but it works great for some.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Apr 30, 2017)

JoeMoma said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



I am ok with home school but I don't like it when someone tries to use it as a reason to defund public education.


----------



## PoliticalChic (May 1, 2017)

Matthew said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...





Are you the results of government schooling?

I rest my case.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (May 1, 2017)

KMAN said:


> This shouldn't surprise anyone but I thought I would post it anyway.  Public schools are failing miserably in this country.
> 
> 
> 
> Ohio.com - Colleges are spending billions on freshman remedial classes


...just as planned


----------



## martybegan (May 1, 2017)

jillian said:


> KMAN said:
> 
> 
> > This shouldn't surprise anyone but I thought I would post it anyway.  Public schools are failing miserably in this country.
> ...



Maybe in your limousine liberal school districts, but among the proles its a different story. 

The real issue isn't the schools, its that we keep thinking everyone should go to college when that clearly isn't the case.

We need more vocational institutions at the college level, and more vocational tracks in our high schools.


----------



## DGS49 (May 1, 2017)

The culture has compromised the public school system.  From "I know my RIGHTS!"  to, everyone gets a trophy, to "You can't discipline my child!," to the perennial campaign to keep worthless, unmotivated, disruptive kids in school - for reasons that I refuse to accept.  And the elephant in the room is, How can you expect to promote academic excellence when the majority of the teaching cadre is comprised of unionized government workers?  If our worst enemy wanted to sabotage our society they could not have done a better job than we have done to ourselves.

It is a wonder that some kids manage to get through it with a decent education.

And for the record, when the "Admiral" above said that you can do a valid comparison of home-schooled vs. public schooled kids until you test ALL home schooled kids, he revealed himself as a statistical illiterate.  Not that there was much doubt.


----------



## hadit (May 1, 2017)

Luissa said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > if you want your kids to get a decent education, home school them.
> ...


Myth.  What social skills do they learn in a government school setting?  How to act around a bunch of kids.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 1, 2017)

martybegan said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > KMAN said:
> ...



Then you need to change that in YOUR districts.  There are many school districts that have very successful vocational school programs, often sponsored by local industry.  My state has area vocational centers that serve numerous counties for students to take vocational classes.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 1, 2017)

DGS49 said:


> The culture has compromised the public school system.  From "I know my RIGHTS!"  to, everyone gets a trophy, to "You can't discipline my child!," to the perennial campaign to keep worthless, unmotivated, disruptive kids in school - for reasons that I refuse to accept.  And the elephant in the room is, How can you expect to promote academic excellence when the majority of the teaching cadre is comprised of unionized government workers?  If our worst enemy wanted to sabotage our society they could not have done a better job than we have done to ourselves.
> 
> It is a wonder that some kids manage to get through it with a decent education.
> 
> And for the record, when the "Admiral" above said that you can do a valid comparison of home-schooled vs. public schooled kids until you test ALL home schooled kids, he revealed himself as a statistical illiterate.  Not that there was much doubt.



Self-selection bias is a term I am certain you are unfamiliar with.  Your record is simply one of failure to understand that comparing a small number of home-schoolers as being a homogeneous group when compared to public school student is simply invalid.

I suggest a college level statistics course.  I teach math every day.  What is your excuse?


----------



## OldLady (May 1, 2017)

KMAN said:


> This shouldn't surprise anyone but I thought I would post it anyway.  Public schools are failing miserably in this country.
> 
> 
> 
> Ohio.com - Colleges are spending billions on freshman remedial classes


It's true here in Maine as well.  At least where I live.  Especially in Math, but writing is close behind.


----------



## OldLady (May 1, 2017)

I agree with anyone here who says part of the problem is that we are pressuring just about EVERYONE to attend college, whether they are academically suited or not.  Another part of the problem is the huge pressure on high schools to graduate a greater number of students.  Dropout rates reflect very poorly on a school system and the only way to keep some of these students in school is to keep passing them.  Kids who are failing due to poor performance and expectations they can't or won't bother to meet will stop going.  It is simple.  Administrators also know the dismal future of a student without a high school diploma.  So they find a way to graduate them.  Then they can't make a good living, end up getting assistance, and the state/federal government puts them in a program that pushes them to attend college so they won't be on the dole.
There has to be a better way.  College is not the answer for everyone.  Or trade schools should not be expecting college level performance.  Or something.  You ask me, it's all screwed up.


----------



## martybegan (May 1, 2017)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...



I live in NYC, and while you do have vocational high schools such as Aviation, and Automotive, they are not pushed, and the real issue is the next level, where everyone is encouraged to go to college "just because"


----------



## PoliticalChic (May 2, 2017)

"Forced schooling was intended as an antidote to "corrupt parents," but not, presumably, for morally superior parents like [Horace] Mann, who continued to homeschool his own three children."
The Devastating Rise of Mass Schooling | Kerry McDonald


----------



## regent (May 2, 2017)

Can anyone name the golden period of education in the United States?  I wonder if it is the same period Trump is going to make America great again? Americans should know those golden periods so we know when we have returned. If Trump can't name the periods will he tell us when we have arrived?


----------



## PoliticalChic (May 2, 2017)

regent said:


> Can anyone name the golden period of education in the United States?  I wonder if it is the same period Trump is going to make America great again? Americans should know those golden periods so we know when we have returned. If Trump can't name the periods will he tell us when we have arrived?





"Can anyone name the golden period of education in the United States?"

1. Golden?
Arguably, any period before Liberals took control of what is laughingly called 'education.'



2." *An 1895 8th Grade Final Exam: I Couldn't Pass It. Could You?*
*BY MARTIN PERETZ*
*November 28, 2010
An old pal from Brandeis—Sheldon Gray—has a knack for the ironic. He's very well educated, and so am I. But I don't know whether we could pass this test, from 1895 in what looks like a little red schoolhouse in Salina, Kansas, at all. Let alone with flying colors.  *

What it took to get an 8th grade education in 1895...

Remember when grandparents and great-grandparents stated that they only had an 8th grade education? Well, check this out. Could any of us have passed the 8th grade in 1895?

This is the eighth-grade final exam from 1895 in Salina , Kansas , USA .. It was taken from the original document on file at the Smokey Valley Genealogical Society and Library in Salina, and reprinted by the Salina Journal.

8th Grade Final Exam:

Salina , KS - 1895

*Grammar (Time, one hour)*

1. Give nine rules for the use of Capital Letters.
2. Name the Parts of Speech and define those that have no modifications.
3. Define Verse, Stanza and Paragraph.
4. What are the Principal Parts of a verb? Give Principal Parts of do, lie, lay and run.
5. Define Case, Illustrate each Case.
6. What is Punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of Punctuation.
7-10. Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.

*Arithmetic (Time, 1.25 hours)*

1. Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.
2. A wagon box is 2 ft. deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
3. If a load of wheat weighs 3942 lbs., what is it worth at 50 cts. per bu, deducting 1050 lbs. for tare?
4. District No. 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?
5. Find cost of 6720 lbs. coal at $6.00 per ton.
6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 percent.
7. What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft. long at $.20 per inch?
8. Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days (no grace) at 10 percent.
9. What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per acre, the distance around which is 640 rods?
10. Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt.

*U.S.* *History (Time, 45 minutes)*

1. Give the epochs into which U.S. History is divided.
2. Give an account of the discovery of America by Columbus.
3. Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary War.
4. Show the territorial growth of the United States.
5. Tell what you can of the history of Kansas.
6. Describe three of the most prominent battles of the Rebellion.
7. Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton, Bell, Lincoln, Penn, and Howe?
8. Name events connected with the following dates: 1607, 1620, 1800, 1849, and 1865?

*Orthography (Time, one hour)*

1. What is meant by the following: Alphabet, phonetic orthography, etymology, syllabication?
2. What are elementary sounds? How classified?
3. What are the following, and give examples of each: Trigraph, subvocals, diphthong, cognate letters, linguals?
4. Give four substitutes for caret 'u'.
5. Give two rules for spelling words with final 'e'. Name two exceptions under each rule.
6. Give two uses of silent letters in spelling. Illustrate each.
7. Define the following prefixes and use in connection with a word: Bi, dis, mis, pre, semi, post, non, inter, mono, super.
8. Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the following, and name the sign that indicates the sound: Card, ball, mercy, sir, odd, cell, rise, blood, fare, last.
9. Use the following correctly in sentences, Cite, site, sight, fane, fain, feign, vane, vain, vein, raze, raise, rays.
10. Write 10 words frequently mispronounced and indicate pronunciation by use of diacritical marks and by syllabication.

*Geography (Time, one hour)*

1. What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?
2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas?
3. Of what use are rivers? Of what use is the ocean?
4. Describe the mountains of N.A.
5. Name and describe the following: Monrovia, Odessa, Denver, Manitoba, Hecla, Yukon, St. Helena, Juan Fernandez, Aspinwall and Orinoco.
6. Name and locate the principal trade centers of the U.S.
7. Name all the republics of Europe and give capital of each.
8. Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in the same latitude?
9. Describe the process by which the water of the ocean returns to the sources of rivers.
10. Describe the movements of the earth. Give inclination of the earth."





3. Guess who the President was who made the federal government the agent for labor unions, nation wide, and intra-state.....and without constitutional approval.

C'mon...guess.

Hint? His initials were 'FDR.'


----------



## PoliticalChic (May 2, 2017)

Focus, be clear: the notion of the “peoples” of the United States is a counterpatriotic ideological weapon aimed to subordinate the ‘unum’ to the ‘pluribus.’ Too subtle, too nuanced for some….it is what is known as “rhetorical subversion.”
Earlier American presidents, Republicans and Democrats alike, agreed on *two basic goals: teach the newcomers English and make them Americans. *The clear aim was to strengthen our national identity--to reinforce the _unum_ in _e pluribus unum_--by assimilating the new arrivals into American civilization. Anti-Americanization

During the 1990’s, the American “peoples” found their way into academic standards and curricula. The NY State social studies curriculum was called “One Nation, Many Peoples: A Declaration of Cultural Interdependence.”
*Before the Left took over the Democrat Party, even liberals understood and objected. Arthur Schlesinger, jr.:” The attack on the common American identity is the culmination of the cult of ethnicity. *That attack was mounted in the first instance by European Americans of non-British origin (“unmeltable ethnics”) against the British foundations of American culture; then, latterly and massively, by Americans of non-European origin against the European foundations of that culture.” http://cla.calpoly.edu/~bmori/syll/316syll/Schlesinger.html

In short, Liberal/Democrats push non-American ideas and ideals.

We have lost this country to them.


----------



## Manonthestreet (May 2, 2017)

PoliticalChic said:


> It is a sad statement that our public education has deteriorated to the point that millions of families have resorted to homeschooling.
> 
> Teachers having to become disciplinarians instead of educators...  How can a teacher teach in an environment where the children do not behave and do not listen?  I have a friend who is a teacher in the 2nd grade in a p.s. and she tells me that the parents in her district do not care.  They don't even sign and send back the permission slips so that his/her child can go on a field trip.  Not to even mention the bureaucracy.  Most teachers I know hate their job.
> 
> I think there needs to be a complete overhaul and Florida mandating virtual schools is a start.  Let there be all types of schooling -- virtual schools, private schools, charter schoolers, homeschooling.  Give parents choices.  Let's not keep putting money into a failed system.


teachers have promoted what they deal with in their class...I have no sympathy for them.....


----------



## PoliticalChic (May 2, 2017)

Manonthestreet said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > It is a sad statement that our public education has deteriorated to the point that millions of families have resorted to homeschooling.
> ...




1. The educrats who have taken control of 'education' are not the teachers, they are Liberals/Leftists who control the teachers with huge pay increases, and parents by putting little Johnny on a pedestal no matter his work nor his behavior.

2. With no other option for teaching....what should they do.

3. To see what controls the profession, take a gander at this:

*"The California Federation of Teachers (CFT)* passed a resolution at its most recent convention claiming that “the continued unjust *incarceration of Mumia Abu-Jamal *represents a threat to the *civil rights* of all people.” Thirty years ago, Abu-Jamal took away Philadelphia policeman Daniel Faulkner’s foremost civil right: his life. How obtuse of the CFT to disregard “the threat to the civil rights of all people” represented by someone capable of gunning down a man tasked with protecting the public.

The pantheon of leftist saints includes the Haymarket Square bombers, responsible for the deaths of eight Chicago cops, Joe Hill, murderer of former police officer John Morrison in Salt Lake City, Huey Newton, murderer of Oakland policeman John Frey, and Leonard Peltier, murderer of FBI agents Jack Coler and Ronald Williams. Notice a pattern?"
Teachers' Mumia Abu-Jamal Resolution Out of Sync Morally and Historically | Human Events


4. If there were voucher and a robust alternative system for teachers and for parents, thing would be different.

5.  I have a number of friends who teach in the public schools, and feel as we do.
And I do have sympathy for them.


----------



## Unkotare (May 2, 2017)

Manonthestreet said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > It is a sad statement that our public education has deteriorated to the point that millions of families have resorted to homeschooling.
> ...





????


----------



## Manonthestreet (May 2, 2017)

PoliticalChic said:


> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...


My mom was dealing with this in the 60's. Parents were very involved in local politics, she even had a teacher friend of hers brag to her on how they were reshaping students minds to discard parental influence......


----------



## PoliticalChic (May 2, 2017)

Manonthestreet said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Manonthestreet said:
> ...





"...a teacher friend of hers brag to her on how they were reshaping students minds to discard parental influence....."


There is no doubt that this has always been the view of Progressives.

This can be seen in Woodrow Wilson’s speech as president of Princeton: “Our problem is not merely to help students to adjust to themselves to world life…[but] to make them as unlike their fathers as we can.” (Michael McGerr, “A Fierce Discontent: The Rise and Fall of the Progressive Movement in America, 1870-1920,” p. 111



Same from Obama:

"U.S. President Barack Obama gives the commencement address to the graduating class of The Ohio State University at Ohio Stadium on May 5, 2013 in Columbus, Ohio.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Unfortunately,* you've grown up hearing voices* that incessantly warn of government as nothing more than some separate, sinister entity that's at the root of all our problems. Some of these same voices also do their best to gum up the works. They'll warn that tyranny always lurking just around the corner. You should reject these voices. Because what they suggest is that our brave, and creative, and unique experiment in self-rule is somehow just a sham with which we can't be trusted."
Obama To Grads: Reject Voices That Warn About Government Tyranny


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 2, 2017)

Manonthestreet said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > It is a sad statement that our public education has deteriorated to the point that millions of families have resorted to homeschooling.
> ...



Teachers do not control that process.  Social promotion is an administrator function in almost every school district.  I am currently failing about 20% of my students for their laziness.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 2, 2017)

Manonthestreet said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Manonthestreet said:
> ...



That was nearly 60 years ago.  Parents have no influence with some of their spawn, but it is their poor parenting that is to blame.


----------



## regent (May 2, 2017)

editec said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> > teachers are given little or no methods to control a class....you are 2nd guessed by the admin then if the parents come and say little sallie is sorry....note the parents not the student then they are put back in the class...and heaven forbid they be a star football player who cannot read nor write but can run a football...heaven forbid you fail that student.
> ...


Football coaches teach academic courses in off season and schedules are arranged so that the players will take a course with a coach-teacher. The athletic department runs many high schools.


----------



## Unkotare (May 2, 2017)

regent said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> > strollingbones said:
> ...





Prove it.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 3, 2017)

regent said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> > strollingbones said:
> ...



Football coaches in my schools for the past 20 years have always taught academic classes all year long.  Our current football coach teaches in another school in the district.  Our athletic director is retired from teaching.  The basketball coach teaches world history.  The baseball coach is a business teacher.  The girl's basketball coach is a female teacher of agriculture,  The girl's softball coach is a female teacher of special education math. Our academic team is coached by two history teachers.

Those examples alone fly in the face of your assertion.


----------



## Unkotare (Dec 12, 2018)

.


----------



## Natural Citizen (Dec 12, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Self-selection bias is a term I am certain you are unfamiliar with.  Your record is simply one of failure to understand that comparing a small number of home-schoolers as being a homogeneous group when compared to public school student is simply invalid.
> 
> I suggest a college level statistics course.  I teach math every day.  What is your excuse?



I went to war with the school district over what was at the time this standard material - TERC Hands-On Math: The Truth is in the Details: An Analysis of The First Edition of TERC's Investigations

They're changing the language of mathematics, so it's no wonder kids hit a brick wall as soon as they enter High School.

A year later, they weren't caving in, so I went the private school route with mine own. He's got a A in statistics now in his senior year of college. lol.


----------



## Natural Citizen (Dec 12, 2018)

KMAN said:


> This shouldn't surprise anyone but I thought I would post it anyway.  Public schools are failing miserably in this country.
> 
> 
> 
> Ohio.com - Colleges are spending billions on freshman remedial classes



We need to get the federal government out of education. It lacks any constitutional authority to be involved in education in the first place.

The fact that the federal government is involved with it is why it is a complete failure. It's why American students rank so low across the board compared with students of other nations.

Republicans used to run on abolishing the federal department of education. That's back when conservatism still had a miniscule bit of meaning left, but those days are gone, now conservatism is just a catch phrase it seems.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Dec 13, 2018)

regent said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> > strollingbones said:
> ...



Another school myth comes to light!

Class assignments are done by computer so none of that bullshit you just claimed can happen.  I coached for 7 years as a math and social studies teacher.  I never had more than one or two of my 70+ athletes in my class in any year.

I taught in 7 different middle and high schools.  None of that was true in any of them.  Why?  Because it would make the students ineligible to play if they were placed in a coach's class with that specific intent.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Dec 13, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> .




Great post!  I totally agree!


----------



## McRocket (Dec 13, 2018)

KMAN said:


> This shouldn't surprise anyone but I thought I would post it anyway.  Public schools are failing miserably in this country.
> 
> 
> 
> Ohio.com - Colleges are spending billions on freshman remedial classes



I went to both private and public schools.

And the worst private school was at least about a hundred times better than the best public school.

Like most things the government does...the public education system is pathetic.

The reason is simple: private institutions usually depend on customer satisfaction.
 Whereas public institutions could care less about customer satisfaction (especially when they have a monopoly). If customers are unhappy - they have no choice and must use the government institution.
 And even when government institutions don't have a monopoly, the employees still don't need to care much about customer satisfaction as their jobs are basically guaranteed. So long as they follow the rules and don't do anything horrific...they have virtual jobs for life. They are discouraged from independent thinking and encouraged to just 'follow procedures'...no matter what.
 This should be obvious to anyone who has visited a DMV. The employees there often seem like emotionless robots OR condescending mini-Mussolini's - relishing their tiny amount of power.


----------



## Unkotare (Dec 13, 2018)

editec said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> > teachers are given little or no methods to control a class....you are 2nd guessed by the admin then if the parents come and say little sallie is sorry....note the parents not the student then they are put back in the class...and heaven forbid they be a star football player who cannot read nor write but can run a football...heaven forbid you fail that student.
> ...





This is complete BS.


----------



## RandomPoster (Dec 14, 2018)

Another thing to consider in regards to High School preparing students for college is that most students do not need to go to College.  Take a look at the following graph.  It shows that more and more students are going to college, except the increase in not surprisingly in un-needed areas.  If every single student goes to college, the areas with the largest increase will be in fluff subjects.  Public schools have a ridiculous number of faculty and no discipline.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Dec 14, 2018)

RandomPoster said:


> Another thing to consider in regards to High School preparing students for college is that most students do not need to go to College.  Take a look at the following graph.  It shows that more and more students are going to college, except the increase in not surprisingly in un-needed areas.  If every single student goes to college, the areas with the largest increase will be in fluff subjects.  *Public schools have a ridiculous number of faculty *and no discipline.
> 
> View attachment 234712
> 
> View attachment 234713




You were doing fine until you got to the last sentence, then you went off the rails!


----------



## RandomPoster (Dec 14, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> RandomPoster said:
> 
> 
> > Another thing to consider in regards to High School preparing students for college is that most students do not need to go to College.  Take a look at the following graph.  It shows that more and more students are going to college, except the increase in not surprisingly in un-needed areas.  If every single student goes to college, the areas with the largest increase will be in fluff subjects.  *Public schools have a ridiculous number of faculty *and no discipline.
> ...



  "Why So Many Non-Teaching Employees in Pittsburgh Schools? - Allegheny Institute for Public Policy"

  "All told, the ratio of administrative employees to students more than doubled over the decade."

  All they need are teachers and a principal for occasional beatings.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Dec 14, 2018)

RandomPoster said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > RandomPoster said:
> ...



You are having terminology issues.

You said "schools" and "faculty".  Most of the people mentioned in your linked article are NOT faculty in any way, shape, or form!  Many administrators and clerical personnel are employed by the school districts, and have no connection to the schools.

Corporal punishment in schools is long dead.


----------



## RandomPoster (Dec 14, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> RandomPoster said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



  Call them faculty or employees or servants if you like.  They are an expense.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Dec 14, 2018)

RandomPoster said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > RandomPoster said:
> ...



These people are brought about by the additional accountability laws passed by state legislators mostly.  Tell your elected officials to cut the requirements and the number of people required will be smaller.


----------



## regent (Dec 17, 2018)

Schools should be required to change each student's IQ to a higher number, say 125 or so. If the schools  did that , most kids would not have that much trouble In being admitted to colleges and universities. Another solution might be for colleges and universities to lower their standards and allow all  in to partake in higher  education.


----------



## initforme (Dec 17, 2018)

Perhaps it's the kids who are failing...and their parents.


----------



## initforme (Dec 17, 2018)

Private schools should be forced to take any kid that applies regardless of a ability or if the kid has been expelled because of behavioral mishaps.   And teachers cannot discipline them without their parents comp!aiming or threatening to sue the teacher or school.  Failing the kid is not an option either.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Dec 17, 2018)

regent said:


> Schools should be required to change each student's IQ to a higher number, say 125 or so. If the schools  did that , most kids would not have that much trouble In being admitted to colleges and universities. Another solution might be for colleges and universities to lower their standards and allow all  in to partake in higher  education.



Not sure if you are serious and stupid  or making a joke.


----------

