# How does someone shoot up a gym in Australia?  They banned guns...right?



## 2aguy

Again...another public shooting in Australia....which Australian gun control law stopped this public shooter from walking into the gym and shooting people...or walking into a church, a theater a mall...or a school.

The idea that Australia stopped mass public shootings, or any gun crime, with their gun control is a lie....here is another public shooting......not stopped by the Australian gun control laws.......

Best part of the story....the names...

*Woolloongabba*

Shots fired into CrossFit gym in ‘targeted’ attack

Police are investigating who may have been responsible for a round of bullets being fired into a Brisbane gym overnight.
Authorities have been told that up to 10 gunshots were fired into the CrossFit gym on Annerley Road in Woolloongabba about 2.35am today.


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## rightwinger

Anyone here want to take Australia’s murder rate over ours?


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## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> Anyone here want to take Australia’s murder rate over ours?




Then we would have to get rid of millions of people, go back in time and stop the "Great society" before it destroyed our inner city families, and trade out our criminals for theirs.......since guns aren't driving their gun murder rate, since their criminals can get guns...


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## Tijn Von Ingersleben

rightwinger said:


> Anyone here want to take Australia’s murder rate over ours?


Anyone here want Australia to take our pavement apes and beaners?


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## Toronado3800

2aguy said:


> Again...another public shooting in Australia....which Australian gun control law stopped this public shooter from walking into the gym and shooting people...or walking into a church, a theater a mall...or a school.
> 
> The idea that Australia stopped mass public shootings, or any gun crime, with their gun control is a lie....here is another public shooting......not stopped by the Australian gun control laws.......
> 
> Best part of the story....the names...
> 
> *Woolloongabba*
> 
> Shots fired into CrossFit gym in ‘targeted’ attack
> 
> Police are investigating who may have been responsible for a round of bullets being fired into a Brisbane gym overnight.
> Authorities have been told that up to 10 gunshots were fired into the CrossFit gym on Annerley Road in Woolloongabba about 2.35am today.









Let's work on not proving its safer in Australia.  

Your best answer IS NOT telling us its an international conspiracy but to find the selective places in the U.S. where the murder rate is low.


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## rightwinger

2aguy said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone here want to take Australia’s murder rate over ours?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then we would have to get rid of millions of people, go back in time and stop the "Great society" before it destroyed our inner city families, and trade out our criminals for theirs.......since guns aren't driving their gun murder rate, since their criminals can get guns...
Click to expand...


Gun control works in Australia......it will work here


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## rightwinger

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone here want to take Australia’s murder rate over ours?
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone here want Australia to take our pavement apes and beaners?
Click to expand...

Unworthy of response


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## Toronado3800

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone here want to take Australia’s murder rate over ours?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then we would have to get rid of millions of people, go back in time and stop the "Great society" before it destroyed our inner city families, and trade out our criminals for theirs.......since guns aren't driving their gun murder rate, since their criminals can get guns...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gun control works in Australia......it will work here
Click to expand...


I will say I think it will take 50 years to work here.  Outlawing guns today would not dry up the supply of illegal guns tomorrow, only make them slightly more expensive and 2aguy has a point, then no law abiding folks will be armed.

BUT, in years to come the easily obtained illegal guns will dry up and they'll be fewer and fewer.  

Still I'm not for outlawing guns.  We have the 2nd and all them commas about militia members.  More importantly we can see how the 2nd was implemented.  Let's see if the gun folks can figure out how to show up at Pride Parades and turn themselves into the good guys.


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## Crepitus

2aguy said:


> Again...another public shooting in Australia....which Australian gun control law stopped this public shooter from walking into the gym and shooting people...or walking into a church, a theater a mall...or a school.
> 
> The idea that Australia stopped mass public shootings, or any gun crime, with their gun control is a lie....here is another public shooting......not stopped by the Australian gun control laws.......
> 
> Best part of the story....the names...
> 
> *Woolloongabba*
> 
> Shots fired into CrossFit gym in ‘targeted’ attack
> 
> Police are investigating who may have been responsible for a round of bullets being fired into a Brisbane gym overnight.
> Authorities have been told that up to 10 gunshots were fired into the CrossFit gym on Annerley Road in Woolloongabba about 2.35am today.


OMG!  A criminal broke the law!

Who ever heard of such a thing?


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## Tijn Von Ingersleben

rightwinger said:


> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone here want to take Australia’s murder rate over ours?
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone here want Australia to take our pavement apes and beaners?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unworthy of response
Click to expand...

Cause you're a cuck.


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## BasicHumanUnit

rightwinger said:


> Gun control works in Australia......it will work here



*Yeah, like it worked in Venezuela.*

*Venezuelans regret gun ban, 'a declaration of war against an unarmed population'*
Venezuelans regret gun ban, 'a declaration of war against an unarmed population'

Seeing as you work for George Soreass, it's not surprising you'd do as told as say as told.

Last time for the mentally challenged, The 2nd Amendment WAS NOT ABOUT PERSONAL PROTECTION.

IT's ABOUT NATIONAL PROTECTION OF THE PEOPLE.


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## HenryBHough

Australia obviously needs MORE gun laws.  They can divert funds from law enforcement to pay the drafting of them.  After all, their existing gun laws are not being enforced.


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## BasicHumanUnit

HenryBHough said:


> Australia obviously needs MORE gun laws.  They can divert funds from law enforcement to pay the drafting of them.  After all, their existing gun laws are not being enforced.



Good idea.  excellent idea.
Why not just get rid of ALL law enforcement officials and pass TONS of really scary, strict gun control laws.   That should stop ALL gun violence.


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## 2aguy

Toronado3800 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again...another public shooting in Australia....which Australian gun control law stopped this public shooter from walking into the gym and shooting people...or walking into a church, a theater a mall...or a school.
> 
> The idea that Australia stopped mass public shootings, or any gun crime, with their gun control is a lie....here is another public shooting......not stopped by the Australian gun control laws.......
> 
> Best part of the story....the names...
> 
> *Woolloongabba*
> 
> Shots fired into CrossFit gym in ‘targeted’ attack
> 
> Police are investigating who may have been responsible for a round of bullets being fired into a Brisbane gym overnight.
> Authorities have been told that up to 10 gunshots were fired into the CrossFit gym on Annerley Road in Woolloongabba about 2.35am today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's work on not proving its safer in Australia.
> 
> Your best answer IS NOT telling us its an international conspiracy but to find the selective places in the U.S. where the murder rate is low.
Click to expand...



How about we prove that gun control has nothing to do with Australian gun crime levels.....how about we start with the truth.

Can you explain which Australian gun control law kept these shooters from walking into a school?


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## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone here want to take Australia’s murder rate over ours?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then we would have to get rid of millions of people, go back in time and stop the "Great society" before it destroyed our inner city families, and trade out our criminals for theirs.......since guns aren't driving their gun murder rate, since their criminals can get guns...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gun control works in Australia......it will work here
Click to expand...


No, gun control doesn't work in Australia....their gun murder rate had always been lower than ours, long before they confiscated guns.....our gun murder rate went down as more Americans own and carry guns..

You theory does not match the facts on the ground...


Gun city: Young, dumb and armed

*The notion that a military-grade weapon could be in the hands of local criminals is shocking, but police have already seized at least five machine guns and assault rifles in the past 18 months. The AK-47 was not among them.*

Only a fortnight ago, law enforcement authorities announced they were hunting another seven assault rifles recently smuggled into the country. Weapons from the shipment have been used in armed robberies and drive-by shootings.

*These are just a handful of the thousands of illicit guns fuelling a wave of violent crime in the world’s most liveable city.*

*----*

Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.

Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five year

-----------

While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.

*Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.*

*-------------*

These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.

“They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.

“It used to be that if you were involved in something bad you might have to worry about [being shot]. Now people get shot over nothing - unprovoked.”

------------

*Gun crime soars*
In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.

The investigation has found:


There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
*Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts*
In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.
============
The second part of the series....
Gun city: Gunslingers of the North West


========================
'Thousands' of illegal guns tipped to be handed over in firearms amnesty

Asked roughly how many he expected to be handed in, Mr Keenan said: "Look I certainly think the number will be in the thousands."

The Australian Crime Commission estimated in 2012 there were at least 250,000 illegal guns in Australia. But a Senate report noted last year it was impossible to estimate how many illicit weapons are out there.


*And despite Australia's strict border controls, the smuggling of high-powered military-style firearms is also a growing problem.*


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## 2aguy

Toronado3800 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone here want to take Australia’s murder rate over ours?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then we would have to get rid of millions of people, go back in time and stop the "Great society" before it destroyed our inner city families, and trade out our criminals for theirs.......since guns aren't driving their gun murder rate, since their criminals can get guns...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gun control works in Australia......it will work here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I will say I think it will take 50 years to work here.  Outlawing guns today would not dry up the supply of illegal guns tomorrow, only make them slightly more expensive and 2aguy has a point, then no law abiding folks will be armed.
> 
> BUT, in years to come the easily obtained illegal guns will dry up and they'll be fewer and fewer.
> 
> Still I'm not for outlawing guns.  We have the 2nd and all them commas about militia members.  More importantly we can see how the 2nd was implemented.  Let's see if the gun folks can figure out how to show up at Pride Parades and turn themselves into the good guys.
Click to expand...



No, it wouldn't......right now, as we type, the Mexican drug cartels are building gun factories just across our border......illegal guns will flow easily across our border....and even with an ocean to keep their borders secure, the Australians can't stop illegal guns from getting to their criminals...

Gun city: Young, dumb and armed

*The notion that a military-grade weapon could be in the hands of local criminals is shocking, but police have already seized at least five machine guns and assault rifles in the past 18 months. The AK-47 was not among them.*

Only a fortnight ago, law enforcement authorities announced they were hunting another seven assault rifles recently smuggled into the country. Weapons from the shipment have been used in armed robberies and drive-by shootings.

*These are just a handful of the thousands of illicit guns fuelling a wave of violent crime in the world’s most liveable city.*

*----*

Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.

Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five year

-----------

While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.

*Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.*

*-------------*

These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.

“They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.

“It used to be that if you were involved in something bad you might have to worry about [being shot]. Now people get shot over nothing - unprovoked.”

------------

*Gun crime soars*
In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.

The investigation has found:


There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
*Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts*
In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.
============
The second part of the series....
Gun city: Gunslingers of the North West


========================
'Thousands' of illegal guns tipped to be handed over in firearms amnesty

Asked roughly how many he expected to be handed in, Mr Keenan said: "Look I certainly think the number will be in the thousands."

The Australian Crime Commission estimated in 2012 there were at least 250,000 illegal guns in Australia. But a Senate report noted last year it was impossible to estimate how many illicit weapons are out there.


*And despite Australia's strict border controls, the smuggling of high-powered military-style firearms is also a growing problem.*


----------



## Toronado3800

2aguy said:


> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again...another public shooting in Australia....which Australian gun control law stopped this public shooter from walking into the gym and shooting people...or walking into a church, a theater a mall...or a school.
> 
> The idea that Australia stopped mass public shootings, or any gun crime, with their gun control is a lie....here is another public shooting......not stopped by the Australian gun control laws.......
> 
> Best part of the story....the names...
> 
> *Woolloongabba*
> 
> Shots fired into CrossFit gym in ‘targeted’ attack
> 
> Police are investigating who may have been responsible for a round of bullets being fired into a Brisbane gym overnight.
> Authorities have been told that up to 10 gunshots were fired into the CrossFit gym on Annerley Road in Woolloongabba about 2.35am today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's work on not proving its safer in Australia.
> 
> Your best answer IS NOT telling us its an international conspiracy but to find the selective places in the U.S. where the murder rate is low.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How about we prove that gun control has nothing to do with Australian gun crime levels.....how about we start with the truth.
> 
> Can you explain which Australian gun control law kept these shooters from walking into a school?
Click to expand...


Your grasp of overall trends and logic is infallible 

At the very least point to the chart above and talk about the greater trends or else I fear we'll have to post a link to EVERY incidence of gun violence in each country and see who wins.


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## 2aguy

Toronado3800 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again...another public shooting in Australia....which Australian gun control law stopped this public shooter from walking into the gym and shooting people...or walking into a church, a theater a mall...or a school.
> 
> The idea that Australia stopped mass public shootings, or any gun crime, with their gun control is a lie....here is another public shooting......not stopped by the Australian gun control laws.......
> 
> Best part of the story....the names...
> 
> *Woolloongabba*
> 
> Shots fired into CrossFit gym in ‘targeted’ attack
> 
> Police are investigating who may have been responsible for a round of bullets being fired into a Brisbane gym overnight.
> Authorities have been told that up to 10 gunshots were fired into the CrossFit gym on Annerley Road in Woolloongabba about 2.35am today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's work on not proving its safer in Australia.
> 
> Your best answer IS NOT telling us its an international conspiracy but to find the selective places in the U.S. where the murder rate is low.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How about we prove that gun control has nothing to do with Australian gun crime levels.....how about we start with the truth.
> 
> Can you explain which Australian gun control law kept these shooters from walking into a school?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your grasp of overall trends and logic is infallible
> 
> At the very least point to the chart above and talk about the greater trends or else I fear we'll have to post a link to EVERY incidence of gun violence in each country and see who wins.
Click to expand...



Yes....let's talk over all trends.....our reduction in gun crime was greater than in Australia during the same time period...as more Americans went out, Bought guns and even more are now actually carrying them.....this shows, that your theory on the effectiveness of gun control laws is wrong.......and the gun crime rate and murder rate...

And keep in mind......public shootings did not stop in Australia......they simply have not reached the definition simply because 4 people haven't died in the incidents....well over a dozen, with people shot, but not killed....which means the statement that their gun control laws have stopped their mass public shootings is also a lie...

What actually happened.....I know, you will ignore this information because you refuse to be moved on your position on gun control...but the facts do not support what you believe....what you believe is a lie.

Australia’s 1996 Gun Confiscation Didn’t Work | National Review

University of Melbourne researchers Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi concluded their 2008 report on the matter with the statement, “There is little evidence to suggest that [the Australian mandatory gun-buyback program] had any significant effects on firearm homicides.”

“Although gun buybacks appear to be a logical and sensible policy that helps to placate the public’s fears,” the reported continued, “the evidence so far suggests that in the Australian context, the high expenditure incurred to fund the 1996 gun buyback has not translated into any tangible reductions in terms of firearm deaths.”

A 2007 report, “Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?” by Jeanine Baker and Samara McPhedran similarly concluded that the buyback program did not have a significant long-term effect on the Australian homicide rate.

*The Australian gun-homicide rate had already been quite low and had been steadily falling in the 15 years prior to the Port Arthur massacre. And while the mandatory buyback program did appear to reduce the rate of accidental firearm deaths, Baker and McPhedran found that “the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia.”*

*=======*

*2007 report..

http://c3.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Baker and McPhedran 2007.pdf

Conclusions Examination of the long-term trends indicated that the only category of sudden death that may have been influenced by the introduction of the NFA was firearm suicide
------

However, this effect must be considered in light of the findings for suicide (non-firearm). Homicide patterns (firearm and non-firearm) were not influenced by the NFA, the conclusion being that the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia. The introduction of the NFA appeared to have a negative effect on accidental firearm death. However, over the time period investigated, there was a relatively small number of accidental deaths per annum, with substantial variability. Any conclusions regarding the effect of the NFA on accidental firearm death should be approached with caution
=========*

*2008 report...*

*
http://c8.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Lee and Suardi 2008.pdf

In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means to identifying impacts of the NFA. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates. 
-------

6. Conclusion 

This paper takes a closer look at the effects of the National Firearms Agreement on gun deaths. Using a battery of structural break tests, there is little evidence to suggest that it had any significant effects on firearm homicides and suicides. In addition, there also does not appear to be any substitution effects – that reduced access to firearms may have led those bent on committing homicide or suicide to use alternative methods.*


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## 2aguy

Toronado3800 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again...another public shooting in Australia....which Australian gun control law stopped this public shooter from walking into the gym and shooting people...or walking into a church, a theater a mall...or a school.
> 
> The idea that Australia stopped mass public shootings, or any gun crime, with their gun control is a lie....here is another public shooting......not stopped by the Australian gun control laws.......
> 
> Best part of the story....the names...
> 
> *Woolloongabba*
> 
> Shots fired into CrossFit gym in ‘targeted’ attack
> 
> Police are investigating who may have been responsible for a round of bullets being fired into a Brisbane gym overnight.
> Authorities have been told that up to 10 gunshots were fired into the CrossFit gym on Annerley Road in Woolloongabba about 2.35am today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's work on not proving its safer in Australia.
> 
> Your best answer IS NOT telling us its an international conspiracy but to find the selective places in the U.S. where the murder rate is low.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How about we prove that gun control has nothing to do with Australian gun crime levels.....how about we start with the truth.
> 
> Can you explain which Australian gun control law kept these shooters from walking into a school?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your grasp of overall trends and logic is infallible
> 
> At the very least point to the chart above and talk about the greater trends or else I fear we'll have to post a link to EVERY incidence of gun violence in each country and see who wins.
Click to expand...



And here.....more facts and truth....

On Australia....

Hillary Clinton Is Wrong About Gun Laws In Australia And The UK

Their firearms homicide rate had been falling for a decade prior to the buyback. It continued falling at the same rate after the buyback.  There was no sudden drop, just a fairly constant decline that continued even as gun ownership rose back up to previous levels. The armed robbery rate rose in the first five years after the buyback. After another ten years, the rate had fallen to pre-buyback levels.
----

Firearm suicides fell after the buyback, but they had already been falling for more than a decade. There was absolutely no change in the rate of decline. Moreover, the non-firearm suicide rate also fell after the buyback — just as fast, in fact, as the firearm suicide rate. Clearly, the fall in firearm suicides was driven by other social factors.


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## Toronado3800

2aguy said:


> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again...another public shooting in Australia....which Australian gun control law stopped this public shooter from walking into the gym and shooting people...or walking into a church, a theater a mall...or a school.
> 
> The idea that Australia stopped mass public shootings, or any gun crime, with their gun control is a lie....here is another public shooting......not stopped by the Australian gun control laws.......
> 
> Best part of the story....the names...
> 
> *Woolloongabba*
> 
> Shots fired into CrossFit gym in ‘targeted’ attack
> 
> Police are investigating who may have been responsible for a round of bullets being fired into a Brisbane gym overnight.
> Authorities have been told that up to 10 gunshots were fired into the CrossFit gym on Annerley Road in Woolloongabba about 2.35am today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's work on not proving its safer in Australia.
> 
> Your best answer IS NOT telling us its an international conspiracy but to find the selective places in the U.S. where the murder rate is low.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How about we prove that gun control has nothing to do with Australian gun crime levels.....how about we start with the truth.
> 
> Can you explain which Australian gun control law kept these shooters from walking into a school?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your grasp of overall trends and logic is infallible
> 
> At the very least point to the chart above and talk about the greater trends or else I fear we'll have to post a link to EVERY incidence of gun violence in each country and see who wins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes....let's talk over all trends.....our reduction in gun crime was greater than in Australia during the same time period...as more Americans went out, Bought guns and even more are now actually carrying them.....this shows, that your theory on the effectiveness of gun control laws is wrong.......and the gun crime rate and murder rate...
> 
> And keep in mind......public shootings did not stop in Australia......they simply have not reached the definition simply because 4 people haven't died in the incidents....well over a dozen, with people shot, but not killed....which means the statement that their gun control laws have stopped their mass public shootings is also a lie...
> 
> What actually happened.....I know, you will ignore this information because you refuse to be moved on your position on gun control...but the facts do not support what you believe....what you believe is a lie.
> 
> Australia’s 1996 Gun Confiscation Didn’t Work | National Review
> 
> University of Melbourne researchers Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi concluded their 2008 report on the matter with the statement, “There is little evidence to suggest that [the Australian mandatory gun-buyback program] had any significant effects on firearm homicides.”
> 
> “Although gun buybacks appear to be a logical and sensible policy that helps to placate the public’s fears,” the reported continued, “the evidence so far suggests that in the Australian context, the high expenditure incurred to fund the 1996 gun buyback has not translated into any tangible reductions in terms of firearm deaths.”
> 
> A 2007 report, “Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?” by Jeanine Baker and Samara McPhedran similarly concluded that the buyback program did not have a significant long-term effect on the Australian homicide rate.
> 
> *The Australian gun-homicide rate had already been quite low and had been steadily falling in the 15 years prior to the Port Arthur massacre. And while the mandatory buyback program did appear to reduce the rate of accidental firearm deaths, Baker and McPhedran found that “the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia.”*
> 
> *=======*
> 
> *2007 report..
> 
> http://c3.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Baker and McPhedran 2007.pdf
> 
> Conclusions Examination of the long-term trends indicated that the only category of sudden death that may have been influenced by the introduction of the NFA was firearm suicide
> ------
> 
> However, this effect must be considered in light of the findings for suicide (non-firearm). Homicide patterns (firearm and non-firearm) were not influenced by the NFA, the conclusion being that the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia. The introduction of the NFA appeared to have a negative effect on accidental firearm death. However, over the time period investigated, there was a relatively small number of accidental deaths per annum, with substantial variability. Any conclusions regarding the effect of the NFA on accidental firearm death should be approached with caution
> =========*
> 
> *2008 report...*
> 
> *
> http://c8.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Lee and Suardi 2008.pdf
> 
> In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means to identifying impacts of the NFA. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates.
> -------
> 
> 6. Conclusion
> 
> This paper takes a closer look at the effects of the National Firearms Agreement on gun deaths. Using a battery of structural break tests, there is little evidence to suggest that it had any significant effects on firearm homicides and suicides. In addition, there also does not appear to be any substitution effects – that reduced access to firearms may have led those bent on committing homicide or suicide to use alternative methods.*
Click to expand...


ok.  Keep talking trends.  Those individual stories of tragedies are intellectually insulting.

Now where were them stats on northern U.S. homicides vs the rest of the country...


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## BasicHumanUnit

*The entire argument over safety from the gun grabbers is Null and Moot from the beginning

The argument IS NOT whether or not any given person or group of persons is "safer" with or without guns in the hands of citizens.   No, not at all.

THE QUESTION / ARGUMENT IS.....
*
*Are People Less Likely To Become Oppressed by Authoritarian Governments IF THE MAJORITY ARE ARMED.*
*
To that omnipotent question the answer is a resounding, undeniable YES.
The argument ENDS RIGHT THERE.   DONE.  OVER.  PERIOD.

I don't give a shit WHAT ANYONE says or if the murder rate rises or falls.  Irrelevant.   
Life is a constant struggle.   Casualties are a given.  But history ALWAYS proves in the long run, that an armed population is infinitely safer overall than an unarmed one.*


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## Dick Foster

rightwinger said:


> Anyone here want to take Australia’s murder rate over ours?



Yes indeed if I'm allowed to exclude all illegal alien assholes, democrats dumbasses and the long list of criminals they've cut loose from our prisons.


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## bodecea

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone here want to take Australia’s murder rate over ours?
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone here want Australia to take our pavement apes and beaners?
Click to expand...

There is no racism on the Right.


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## Likkmee

the same way AmerrykANTS shoot up heroin, cocaine and speedball. Understand yet ?


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## BasicHumanUnit

bodecea said:


> There is no racism on the Right.



If you insist.

Truth is ....it's on both sides

But that doesn't mean that you personally can't be better and rise above it.


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## 2aguy

bodecea said:


> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone here want to take Australia’s murder rate over ours?
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone here want Australia to take our pavement apes and beaners?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no racism on the Right.
Click to expand...



The entire democrat party is racist......always have been always will be....they see racism as a way to power, so they will never give it up.


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## Tijn Von Ingersleben

bodecea said:


> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone here want to take Australia’s murder rate over ours?
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone here want Australia to take our pavement apes and beaners?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no racism on the Right.
Click to expand...

As opposed to the racism of low expectations on the left. There is nothing more repugnant than a white leftist.


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