# Are your pets family?



## Amelia

Are your pets family?


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## syrenn

Yes. When my cats die i morn their loss. I just spent 20k on one.... you bet they are family.


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## Alan Stallion

As a single person, my two cats are my family. Now if I can just get them to learn how to vacuum and wash dishes.


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## Sallow

My family and my responsiblity.


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## westwall

Absolutely!  They have their own Christmas stockings and everything!


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## Mr. H.

To me they aren't. 
Wife/daughter think differently.
That's cool.


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## syrenn

westwall said:


> Absolutely!  They have their own Christmas stockings and everything!




mine too!!!


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## kwc57

My dog Jake who was a 155 lbs Great Dane/Bull Mastiff mix was the BEST dog in the world.  He passed away in my arms from old age.  He was too big to bury in the backyard.  I had him cremated and he sits on a shelf in my living room where he loved to be with his family.  He was such a good dog that I have never wanted another.  My cat Spanky can't wait for me to get home and sit down so he can curl up in my lap.  He sleeps on top of me every night.  Yep, my pets are family.


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## Big Black Dog

My 3 dogs are.  My wife's 9 outdoor cats are not.


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## syrenn

Big Black Dog said:


> My 3 dogs are.  My wife's 9 outdoor cats are not.


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## Mr. H.

Big Black Dog said:


> My 3 dogs are.  My wife's 9 outdoor cats are not.



Petcist.


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## techieny

Oh yeah, Ginger & Coco rule the house !


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## rightwinger

Absolutely

I have a two year old Austrailian Shepherd who sleeps with us and rarely leaves my side


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## peach174

All of mine are.
The Bird gets bird treats & toys to play with
The Turtle gets fish treats
And cat gets catnip toys for Christmas.
And all of them know which presents are theirs under the tree.


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## Douger

Nah. They're useless. They like brown people.


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## ekrem

Amelia said:


> Are your pets family?



Behind the word "family" lies a legal interpretation, and for some religious interpretation. 
Let's assume a dog/cat kidney is the same with a human kidney: No one would donate a kidney to a pet if the pet's life would depend on it. 

Pets can never replace other humans or be equalized with family members.
Family is a very different thing. A pet is at most a "friend" of the family or a companion to the family. And in worst form it is just a distraction for the kids so the parents have their peace.


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## Mr. H.

Do barking Costa Rican dogs sound the same as U.S. barking dogs?


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## Douger

Mr. H. said:


> Do barking Costa Rican dogs sound the same as U.S. barking dogs?


NO ! They go aWoofo. aWooofo.


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## ekrem

If a dog bites his owner, dog will be sent to sleep.
A father will always forgive his son with time, or the other way round.

I don't communicate with animals. And I don't put a string around the children's neck.
This is not family -->
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/9814/138507.jpg


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## High_Gravity

ekrem said:


> If a dog bites his owner, dog will be sent to sleep.
> A father will always forgive his son with time, or the other way round.
> 
> I don't communicate with animals. And I don't put a string around the children's neck.
> This is not family -->
> http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/9814/138507.jpg



You fuck sheep liar, so in a way you do communicate with animals.


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## iamwhatiseem

Yes.
I am a dog person myself. Something about having a bad day and burying your face into an animal whose sole desire is to please you.

...and eat.


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## Douger

oGRAC  oGRAC


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## Douger

Meet Ernesto.


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## ekrem

High_Gravity said:


> You fuck sheep liar, so in a way you do communicate with animals.



At least me fucks sheep-pussy, you on the other hand like sheep-cock in your ass and in your mouth. Cocksucker.


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## Nosmo King

There's little doubt my dog calls the tune at the Luxurious Pimplebutt Estate!  There are even folks who see her while she's walking at the cemetery who call her over just to watch her roll over, sit up and flirt.  She is the most friendly dog on the planet and is widely loved and coddled.

Meet Daisy


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## ABikerSailor

Are pets family?  Yes.

One of the best friends I ever had was a big black cat that I named Cement (he was solid as a rock).  One time, I didn't come home for a month (had obligations) and when I got back, my room mate told me that he basically waited next to my motorbike every evening until I finally got home.  He was so pissed at me that he turned his back to me for a day and a half.

One of the saddest days of my life was when he died.

Currently?  We have another black and white tuxedo cat that we call Tuxedo C. Underfoot, as he's always underfoot (and the C stands for cat).

Also known as Prince Fuzz Butt, High Lord of Asshair.


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## Vengeance

Yes, my pets are family, I am fond of them and take their well being and comfort more seriously than my own.  Some of the exotics require very specific  temperatures and humidity as well as special diets  while I will cut corners on my own optimum situation to accomodate theirs.  To my thinking, having a captive, dependent animal that one doesn't pamper is not something to do.


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## High_Gravity

ekrem said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> You fuck sheep liar, so in a way you do communicate with animals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *At least me fucks sheep-pussy*, you on the other hand like sheep-cock in your ass and in your mouth. Cocksucker.
Click to expand...


LMAO! Look at the idiot admitting he fucks sheep! I OWN you boy!


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## ABikerSailor

ekrem said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> You fuck sheep liar, so in a way you do communicate with animals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least me fucks sheep-pussy, you on the other hand like sheep-cock in your ass and in your mouth. Cocksucker.
Click to expand...


You fuck sheep pussy?  Really?

How long have you been into bestiality?

Do you prefer a specific color of sheep, or is it all about the height and such?

I only ask, because I've never met a beast master like you appear to be before.


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## ekrem

High_Gravity said:


> LMAO! Look at the idiot admitting he fucks sheep! I OWN you boy!



The only thing you own is a sheep-cock in your ass and mouth. Cocksucker.


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## High_Gravity

ekrem said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO! Look at the idiot admitting he fucks sheep! I OWN you boy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only thing you own is a sheep-cock in your ass and mouth. Cocksucker.
Click to expand...


Fucking sheep is sick you crazy little boy, you need to check into a mental institution ASAP.


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## High_Gravity

ABikerSailor said:


> ekrem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> You fuck sheep liar, so in a way you do communicate with animals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least me fucks sheep-pussy, you on the other hand like sheep-cock in your ass and in your mouth. Cocksucker.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You fuck sheep pussy?  Really?
> 
> How long have you been into bestiality?
> 
> Do you prefer a specific color of sheep, or is it all about the height and such?
> 
> I only ask, because I've never met a beast master like you appear to be before.
Click to expand...


Ekrem lets the sheep fuck him in the mouth.


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## earlycuyler

Me and the Wife work opposing shifts, and the kids being teenagers now mostly do there own thing, so its me and dog. The wife calls him Yankee. Yeah, you could say the turd is family.


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## earlycuyler

High_Gravity said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ekrem said:
> 
> 
> 
> At least me fucks sheep-pussy, you on the other hand like sheep-cock in your ass and in your mouth. Cocksucker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You fuck sheep pussy?  Really?
> 
> How long have you been into bestiality?
> 
> Do you prefer a specific color of sheep, or is it all about the height and such?
> 
> I only ask, because I've never met a beast master like you appear to be before.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ekrem lets the sheep fuck him in the mouth.
Click to expand...


Gross.


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## High_Gravity

earlycuyler said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> You fuck sheep pussy?  Really?
> 
> How long have you been into bestiality?
> 
> Do you prefer a specific color of sheep, or is it all about the height and such?
> 
> I only ask, because I've never met a beast master like you appear to be before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ekrem lets the sheep fuck him in the mouth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gross.
Click to expand...


Yes, it is! The sick little bastard needs to seek help ASAP.


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## Douger

Mary Krismess murka !


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## koshergrl

I see them as possessions of my family. I love them very much, but not as much as I love my children, and I won't ransom my kids and my kids' well being for my animals, regardless of how much I love them.

I have sold off horses and given away pets when for whatever reason they became impossible for me to support without it representing a significant change in my kids' lives (financial hardship, for example, or just plain hardship).

Right now I'm dealing with a very large, very exhuberant dog that I got before I realized I would be living where I am now (I honestly had no idea), and he's veerrry troubling because he's damaging things. I'm thinking (especially today) hard about whether or not to find him another home. It's a hard decision, but if it's between that and being homeless, guess what? He'd have to go.


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## Sallow

koshergrl said:


> I see them as possessions of my family. I love them very much, but not as much as I love my children, and I won't ransom my kids and my kids' well being for my animals, regardless of how much I love them.
> 
> I have sold off horses and given away pets when for whatever reason they became impossible for me to support without it representing a significant change in my kids' lives (financial hardship, for example, or just plain hardship).
> 
> Right now I'm dealing with a very large, very exhuberant dog that I got before I realized I would be living where I am now (I honestly had no idea), and he's veerrry troubling because he's damaging things. I'm thinking (especially today) hard about whether or not to find him another home. It's a hard decision, but if it's between that and being homeless, guess what? He'd have to go.



Hmm.

That's quite different from me. I won't live in a place that doesn't allow dogs, and I currently have one that has destroyed furniture. And I once had a girlfriend that gave me the choice of getting rid of the dog..or she would leave.

I said, "Nice knowing ya".


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## Coyote

My guys are definantly family....


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## earlycuyler

Wow, five dogs. Bet you have your hands full.


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## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> I see them as possessions of my family. I love them very much, but not as much as I love my children, and I won't ransom my kids and my kids' well being for my animals, regardless of how much I love them.
> 
> I have sold off horses and given away pets when for whatever reason they became impossible for me to support without it representing a significant change in my kids' lives (financial hardship, for example, or just plain hardship).
> 
> Right now I'm dealing with a very large, very exhuberant dog that I got before I realized I would be living where I am now (I honestly had no idea), and he's veerrry troubling because he's damaging things. I'm thinking (especially today) hard about whether or not to find him another home. It's a hard decision, but if it's between that and being homeless, guess what? He'd have to go.



Train him, get a crate, give him a job....getting an animal is a commitment not a passing fancy.


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## Coyote

earlycuyler said:


> Wow, five dogs. Bet you have your hands full.



They're fun - I enjoy training dogs and am involved Australian Shepherd rescue - the number varies depending on whether I foster or not (am not now as this is the max I am comfortable keeping).  Three are seniors - 9, 11, 13 - they're easy keepers


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## earlycuyler

Coyote said:


> earlycuyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, five dogs. Bet you have your hands full.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They're fun - I enjoy training dogs and am involved Australian Shepherd rescue - the number varies depending on whether I foster or not (am not now as this is the max I am comfortable keeping).  Three are seniors - 9, 11, 13 - they're easy keepers
Click to expand...


My dog was a stray, and decided he would live with us. If I had room and money I would get more dogs, but I am happy with this guy. He is a very non typical pit bull. Most likely part lab .
Australian Shepherds are cool dogs. Not for the lazy though.


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## RetiredGySgt

Amelia said:


> Are your pets family?



Yes, within reason. I would risk my life for my dogs, but I would not risk any other family member for them.


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## Skull Pilot

My little cattle dog just got diagnosed with cancer.

We caught it early, had the lump removed and now we're scheduled for radiation treatments.

I didn't even ask how much it costs because I don't care he's worth it to me..


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## koshergrl

Sallow said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see them as possessions of my family. I love them very much, but not as much as I love my children, and I won't ransom my kids and my kids' well being for my animals, regardless of how much I love them.
> 
> I have sold off horses and given away pets when for whatever reason they became impossible for me to support without it representing a significant change in my kids' lives (financial hardship, for example, or just plain hardship).
> 
> Right now I'm dealing with a very large, very exhuberant dog that I got before I realized I would be living where I am now (I honestly had no idea), and he's veerrry troubling because he's damaging things. I'm thinking (especially today) hard about whether or not to find him another home. It's a hard decision, but if it's between that and being homeless, guess what? He'd have to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm.
> 
> That's quite different from me. I won't live in a place that doesn't allow dogs, and I currently have one that has destroyed furniture. And I once had a girlfriend that gave me the choice of getting rid of the dog..or she would leave.
> 
> I said, "Nice knowing ya".
Click to expand...

So you'd put your dog's well being before your children's?

Not me. 

I'm not talking about making a choice between a person who doesn't like your dog and your dog, I would make the same choice as you. I'm talking about choosing your dog over your house, and having to pay out the remainder of your lease if you choose your dog..

It hasn't come to that yet, and I really don't want it to. So I'm scrambling to figure something out. I will, too.


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## AquaAthena

Amelia said:


> Are your pets family?



Absolutely. And treated as royalty.


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## earlycuyler

AquaAthena said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are your pets family?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely. And treated as royalty.
Click to expand...


Ha, I knew you were a cat person.


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## kiwiman127

My cat (Sydney) has been my little buddy for 20 years, she follows me from room to room, greets me when I walk in the door and she's always sleeping by my side when I wake up and unlike my wife, lets me keep the bed covers on me!  Syd is my cat.
Then we have Bud, who we rescued from a shelter, he's deaf and has only barked five times since we took him into our home six years ago. What a great watch dog! We're pretty sure he was abused by his previous owner, so he gets a lot of loving care. He loves kids and kids love him. My three year old grand daughter kisses him goodbye whenever she's visiting.  She even calls up and asks to speak to Bud!  So we put the receiver by Bud's ear and we can hear my grand daughter tell Bud how much she loves him.  It's darn cute. Bud is my wife's dog and yes, he is family.


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## Toro

Amelia said:


> Are your pets family?




Damn, the dog ranks higher than I do in the family hierarchy!


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## Sarah G

ekrem said:


> If a dog bites his owner, dog will be sent to sleep.
> A father will always forgive his son with time, or the other way round.
> 
> I don't communicate with animals. And I don't put a string around the children's neck.
> This is not family -->
> http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/9814/138507.jpg



No you don't treat them the same but there is a connection.  You grow to love them.  I never had pets growing up and I still don't, my daughter does and I really like her dogs.  They know you and greet you, they remember things about you.

I have a pic in my profile of one of my daughter's doggies.  You can really see warmth in that cute face.


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## Samson

Amelia said:


> Are your pets family?






The real question is: "Are the kids family?"


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## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see them as possessions of my family. I love them very much, but not as much as I love my children, and I won't ransom my kids and my kids' well being for my animals, regardless of how much I love them.
> 
> I have sold off horses and given away pets when for whatever reason they became impossible for me to support without it representing a significant change in my kids' lives (financial hardship, for example, or just plain hardship).
> 
> Right now I'm dealing with a very large, very exhuberant dog that I got before I realized I would be living where I am now (I honestly had no idea), and he's veerrry troubling because he's damaging things. I'm thinking (especially today) hard about whether or not to find him another home. It's a hard decision, but if it's between that and being homeless, guess what? He'd have to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm.
> 
> That's quite different from me. I won't live in a place that doesn't allow dogs, and I currently have one that has destroyed furniture. And I once had a girlfriend that gave me the choice of getting rid of the dog..or she would leave.
> 
> I said, "Nice knowing ya".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you'd put your dog's well being before your children's?
> 
> Not me.
> 
> I'm not talking about making a choice between a person who doesn't like your dog and your dog, I would make the same choice as you. I'm talking about choosing your dog over your house, and having to pay out the remainder of your lease if you choose your dog..
> 
> It hasn't come to that yet, and I really don't want it to.* So I'm scrambling to figure something out*. I will, too.
Click to expand...


What are you doing?  How old is the dog?  There are a lot of things you can try to remedy the situation without losing home or dog....


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## Coyote

Toro said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are your pets family?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Damn, the dog ranks higher than I do in the family hierarchy!
Click to expand...


So...I take it it's NOT the dog sleeping in that little wooden house out back?


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## Cuyo

Katie says my relationship with my dog Monty is a little disturbing.  Then I remind her that in this house, Monty outranks her.


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## Samson

Recently I had the opportunity to shop for homeowners insurance.

One question they all asked: Do we have pet's? How big is your dog? Has it ever bitten anyone?


Thank the gods, they never asked about the 15 or 17 year old teens.


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## strollingbones

my pets know their place......


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## strollingbones

my husband says it is disgusting to let the clark drank out of my glass then drank from it myself....that its nasty.....i point out he has no problem with other things being inserted into my mouth...and the fight is on lol


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## High_Gravity

strollingbones said:


> my husband says it is disgusting to let the clark drank out of my glass then drank from it myself....that its nasty.....*i point out he has no problem with other things being inserted into my mouth*...and the fight is on lol


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## koshergrl

Coyote said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm.
> 
> That's quite different from me. I won't live in a place that doesn't allow dogs, and I currently have one that has destroyed furniture. And I once had a girlfriend that gave me the choice of getting rid of the dog..or she would leave.
> 
> I said, "Nice knowing ya".
> 
> 
> 
> So you'd put your dog's well being before your children's?
> 
> Not me.
> 
> I'm not talking about making a choice between a person who doesn't like your dog and your dog, I would make the same choice as you. I'm talking about choosing your dog over your house, and having to pay out the remainder of your lease if you choose your dog..
> 
> It hasn't come to that yet, and I really don't want it to.* So I'm scrambling to figure something out*. I will, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What are you doing? How old is the dog? There are a lot of things you can try to remedy the situation without losing home or dog....
Click to expand...

 
Oh, he's young, a year old next month. And he's huge. And I don't have a fenced yard (I did when I got him). And he sort of bounces from one thing to the next, it's always something. A couple of weeks ago, it was peeing because he was undergoing steroid treatment. THAT was fun. Now he feels great...and he's discovered where the rug meets the hardwood floor. He destroyed my daughter's favorite shoes (though that's sort of a given, if he can get to them. We've gone through a few pairs of shoes in the last 7 months). But yesterday, he separated the rug, and then when I rushed home at noon to check on him and let him out before rushing back to work, he raced out the front door and down the street. He went about a block before he turned around. 

So yesterday just wasn't a very good day...it was better in the evening. And today is my last day of work for 10 days! So I'll be able to spend some quality time with him, get some pet repellent for the areas he's worrying, and have somebody look at the rug and figure out what we can do. I didn't even know my floor was really wood, though I suspected. I thought it was just that super tough wood looking linoleum stuff. He hasn't hurt it. Yet. After his run he was really good for the rest of the day, lol. He  needs that edge taken off of him every day, and I can't always do it. I can unless anything changes, but when things change, I'm screwed. This week, the childcare has changed for winter break, which means everything is a half hour earlier in the morning, plus I have to make lunch for the kids which eats another 15 out of the morning..and that's our walk time. This is the last day of that particular hassle, though. We made it. Whew.


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## koshergrl

though technically, we still have to get through today. I'm so tempted to take him to work and make him stay in the car. It wouldn't be fun for him, but he's traveled long distances, so he can go at least a couple of hours between stops...then we have an hour lunch...soooo tempting. In fact....


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## Vengeance

koshergrl said:


> though technically, we still have to get through today. I'm so tempted to take him to work and make him stay in the car. It wouldn't be fun for him, but he's traveled long distances, so he can go at least a couple of hours between stops...then we have an hour lunch...soooo tempting. In fact....



Don't be surprised if he shreds your car upholstery out of boredom and spite


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## Jackson

Now look at this avatar and ask me if she isn't part of the family.  She is more forgiving than the rest of the family!  And loving is the the priority of her day!


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## Coyote

koshergrl said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you'd put your dog's well being before your children's?
> 
> Not me.
> 
> I'm not talking about making a choice between a person who doesn't like your dog and your dog, I would make the same choice as you. I'm talking about choosing your dog over your house, and having to pay out the remainder of your lease if you choose your dog..
> 
> It hasn't come to that yet, and I really don't want it to.* So I'm scrambling to figure something out*. I will, too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are you doing? How old is the dog? There are a lot of things you can try to remedy the situation without losing home or dog....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, he's young, a year old next month. And he's huge. And I don't have a fenced yard (I did when I got him). And he sort of bounces from one thing to the next, it's always something. A couple of weeks ago, it was peeing because he was undergoing steroid treatment. THAT was fun. Now he feels great...and he's discovered where the rug meets the hardwood floor. He destroyed my daughter's favorite shoes (though that's sort of a given, if he can get to them. We've gone through a few pairs of shoes in the last 7 months). But yesterday, he separated the rug, and then when I rushed home at noon to check on him and let him out before rushing back to work, he raced out the front door and down the street. He went about a block before he turned around.
> 
> So yesterday just wasn't a very good day...it was better in the evening. And today is my last day of work for 10 days! So I'll be able to spend some quality time with him, get some pet repellent for the areas he's worrying, and have somebody look at the rug and figure out what we can do. I didn't even know my floor was really wood, though I suspected. I thought it was just that super tough wood looking linoleum stuff. He hasn't hurt it. Yet. After his run he was really good for the rest of the day, lol. He  needs that edge taken off of him every day, and I can't always do it. I can unless anything changes, but when things change, I'm screwed. This week, the childcare has changed for winter break, which means everything is a half hour earlier in the morning, plus I have to make lunch for the kids which eats another 15 out of the morning..and that's our walk time. This is the last day of that particular hassle, though. We made it. Whew.
Click to expand...


It sounds as if you hit bad timing with work, adolescence, and the after-effects of steroids (which unfortunately causes drinking and peeing) - I don't envy you   What kind of dog is he?  Do you have access to dog parks where he can run?  I hear you about walk time - that is a problem I'm having at the moment due to deer hunting and short days.  If he's crazy about balls or frisbees - that can be one way to wear him out - or brain games like "find it" (kids can play that with him to).  I run with my dogs during the summer but right now, it's a bit harder (plus motivation in the winter sucks).


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## koshergrl

He's getting toys toys toys!


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## syrenn

strollingbones said:


> my husband says it is disgusting to let the clark drank out of my glass then drank from it myself....that its nasty.....i point out he has no problem with other things being inserted into my mouth...and the fight is on lol


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## koshergrl

I'm trying to avoid kissie faces lately; I worry about tapeworm and other disgusting creatures hitching a ride. It's hard because my boy is soooo kissable...and he gives kisses, too. And he drools. He wakes my daughter up these days after drinking, so he goes and lays his head on her while she's abed, covering hier with loooong ropy drool. She gets right up.


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## Coyote

Rosalee the Toy Pig in her under-the-stairs lair.  All toys belongeth unto her - eventually (she operates by stealth when the direct approach doesn't work) 

She's our newest addition - a deviation from aussies, since she's an Akita mix


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## Katzndogz

My dog is my daughter.  When she was a baby, I carried her in my pocket.  Then we graduated to a pouch until she was big enough for a leash.

She sleeps with me every night.  Although she does steal covers.  She is more than a welcome visitor every place we go.  My son's granddaughter calls her "Great Grandma Doggie".   My dog is more like a child, and better behaved than most children.  

My cat is my companion because he came to me late in life.  I owe him my very life.  At one time I had a spate of unexplained severe nose bleeds (probably caused by a change in climate).  The cat kept watch all night long and alerted me when I started bleeding.  He'd pat my face, bite my fingers until I woke up.

Before these children, I had a cat for 20 years before he passed on.  I was so devoted to him that my boyfriends sometimes complained that I loved the cat more than them.  My answer was "He was here before you and we'll be together long after you are gone."   Then I met a man who said "You two have been together for 15 years.  You and I have been together for a year.  I know my place if you had to make a choice."  I married him.


----------



## koshergrl

I love my animals but I make no mistake, they're animals. Not so much because I care less for them, but because I have learned very hard lessons about humanizing them. They aren't humans, they're animals, and they do best if they are treated as such. I love them as a human, but it is wrong and unfair to expect them to love me as a human, or to behave normally if I force human-ness upon them.

Plus they just aren't as long lived as we are, and they are subject to a whole variety of hazards that we can't always control or protect them from.


----------



## Vengeance

koshergrl said:


> I
> 
> Plus they just aren't as long lived as we are, and they are subject to a whole variety of hazards that we can't always control or protect them from.



This fact has reinforced the meaning of heartbreak for me many times  over the years  but I'll be damned if I'll harden myself  just to escape the pain- the loss avoidance isn't worth what I'd have to give up.


----------



## koshergrl

I'm not convinced I'm hardened. I understand my animals and their needs today much, much better than I did back when I still got all loopy over them.

Though...I still get pretty loopy. Had a much loved animal die unexpectedly last year, that was a pretty rough weekend.


----------



## Vengeance

koshergrl said:


> I'm not convinced I'm hardened. I understand my animals and their needs today much, much better than I did back when I still got all loopy over them.
> 
> Though...I still get pretty loopy. Had a much loved animal die unexpectedly last year, that was a pretty rough weekend.



I don't mean to say that I think you ARE hardened, just that that's what *I'd* have to do before lifespan became a distancing factor in the equation for me. I curse the inequity of it every time I come up against the phenomena, but if it's that or do without, well...


----------



## Katzndogz

I know of the hazards of being a canine.  My dog though really is MUCH more of a little girl than a dog.  Very little of what she does is "doggie".  I have already decided that if I outlive her, there will be no other dogs.  I couldn't bear having a dog that wasn't as smart or as much of a child.


----------



## spectrumc01

The dogs...yes
The cats...sometimes
The fish...no


----------



## jillian

westwall said:


> Absolutely!  They have their own Christmas stockings and everything!



we have a lop eared rabbit on one of our menorahs and gave the bunny a chanukah gift. 

the bunny... family...

the bearded dragon... not so much... even though i like him.


----------



## Zoom-boing

I'd have to go with a definite yes on this one.  After several years of the kids pesting 'dad can we get a dog' (I was in like flint from the get go) we got Penny, the white one.  After several more years of pesting 'dad can we get another dog' (again, I was in link flint from the get go) we found Diogi.   Shadow the cat has been with us for 14 years.  I think he may wake up soon.


----------



## koshergrl

jillian said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely! They have their own Christmas stockings and everything!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we have a lop eared rabbit on one of our menorahs and gave the bunny a chanukah gift.
> 
> the bunny... family...
> 
> the bearded dragon... not so much... even though i like him.
Click to expand...

 
My son and his family have a bunny they've had for a couple of years now! An indoor bunny, with a pit bull in the house. I would never have imagined it would survive the dogs and kids this long, but so far so good.


----------



## Coyote

My dogs are family - but  they aren't "children".  I love them for what they are - not what I want them to be.  I think the worst thing you can do to another species is to "humanize" them.  That places an unfair burden on them, prevents a you from appreciating and loving their true character, and worse - encourages miscommunication that can often lead to the animal losing it's home or it's life


----------



## koshergrl

That's what the Dog Whisperer says. Dogs live in the "now". We damage them when we try to make them human, and we eliminate their joy in life because they're behaving unnaturally.

NOT that that is necessarily is what happens to all dogs who are loved as children by their owners. But when their owners TREAT them as humans, it isn't good for them.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Interesting little tidbit for you dog lovers.........did you know that they're telepathic?



> Dogs are so in tune with us that they can read our minds, according to a new Learning & Behavior study that also determined canines are probably born with the ability.
> 
> Practice makes perfect, however, so the more a dog hangs around humans, the better he or she becomes at "canine telepathy," which actually relies upon hyperawareness of the senses.
> 
> Those of us who have owned or been around dogs for any period of time know how well they often "get" us, sensing tiredness, depression, headaches or other maladies before we consciously exhibit any major outward signs of distress. Dogs can even detect when a person has cancer. They also seem to sense our joy and good health.
> 
> Monique Udell and her team from the University of Florida wondered why dogs are so clever at reading us, and how they accomplish this feat. Are dogs born with the ability to sense our mental states, or do canines learn from experience?
> 
> To explore these questions and more, Udell and her team carried out two experiments involving both wolves and dogs. In the experiments, the two sets of animals were given the opportunity to beg for food, either from an attentive person or from a person unable to see the potential begger.
> 
> The researchers showed for the first time that wolves, like domestic dogs, are capable of begging successfully for food by approaching the attentive human. This demonstrates that both species - domesticated and non-domesticated - have the capacity to behave in accordance with a human's attentional state. They are therefore likely born with the ability, since wolves would not have had much practice, which the typical pet dog gains by begging for treats during dinner and at other times.



Dogs Likely Born with 'Canine Telepathy' : Discovery News

Might be when you watch the Dog Whisperer, you hear Mr. Cesar talk about "energy" so much.

And yes........humans are telepathic as well.


----------



## Samson

strollingbones said:


> my husband says it is disgusting to let the clark drank out of my glass then drank from it myself....that its nasty.....i point out he has no problem with other things being inserted into my mouth...and the fight is on lol






The importance of dental hygene should never be underestimated.


----------



## koshergrl

ABikerSailor said:


> Interesting little tidbit for you dog lovers.........did you know that they're telepathic?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogs are so in tune with us that they can read our minds, according to a new Learning & Behavior study that also determined canines are probably born with the ability.
> 
> Practice makes perfect, however, so the more a dog hangs around humans, the better he or she becomes at "canine telepathy," which actually relies upon hyperawareness of the senses.
> 
> Those of us who have owned or been around dogs for any period of time know how well they often "get" us, sensing tiredness, depression, headaches or other maladies before we consciously exhibit any major outward signs of distress. Dogs can even detect when a person has cancer. They also seem to sense our joy and good health.
> 
> Monique Udell and her team from the University of Florida wondered why dogs are so clever at reading us, and how they accomplish this feat. Are dogs born with the ability to sense our mental states, or do canines learn from experience?
> 
> To explore these questions and more, Udell and her team carried out two experiments involving both wolves and dogs. In the experiments, the two sets of animals were given the opportunity to beg for food, either from an attentive person or from a person unable to see the potential begger.
> 
> The researchers showed for the first time that wolves, like domestic dogs, are capable of begging successfully for food by approaching the attentive human. This demonstrates that both species - domesticated and non-domesticated - have the capacity to behave in accordance with a human's attentional state. They are therefore likely born with the ability, since wolves would not have had much practice, which the typical pet dog gains by begging for treats during dinner and at other times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogs Likely Born with 'Canine Telepathy' : Discovery News
> 
> Might be when you watch the Dog Whisperer, you hear Mr. Cesar talk about "energy" so much.
> 
> And yes........humans are telepathic as well.
Click to expand...

 
They definitely have something going, and it's major.

I think they're gifts from God, and their behavior is guided by Him, myself. That's why I believe they'll be in heaven with us.


----------



## Samson

koshergrl said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting little tidbit for you dog lovers.........did you know that they're telepathic?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogs are so in tune with us that they can read our minds, according to a new Learning & Behavior study that also determined canines are probably born with the ability.
> 
> Practice makes perfect, however, so the more a dog hangs around humans, the better he or she becomes at "canine telepathy," which actually relies upon hyperawareness of the senses.
> 
> Those of us who have owned or been around dogs for any period of time know how well they often "get" us, sensing tiredness, depression, headaches or other maladies before we consciously exhibit any major outward signs of distress. Dogs can even detect when a person has cancer. They also seem to sense our joy and good health.
> 
> Monique Udell and her team from the University of Florida wondered why dogs are so clever at reading us, and how they accomplish this feat. Are dogs born with the ability to sense our mental states, or do canines learn from experience?
> 
> To explore these questions and more, Udell and her team carried out two experiments involving both wolves and dogs. In the experiments, the two sets of animals were given the opportunity to beg for food, either from an attentive person or from a person unable to see the potential begger.
> 
> The researchers showed for the first time that wolves, like domestic dogs, are capable of begging successfully for food by approaching the attentive human. This demonstrates that both species - domesticated and non-domesticated - have the capacity to behave in accordance with a human's attentional state. They are therefore likely born with the ability, since wolves would not have had much practice, which the typical pet dog gains by begging for treats during dinner and at other times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dogs Likely Born with 'Canine Telepathy' : Discovery News
> 
> Might be when you watch the Dog Whisperer, you hear Mr. Cesar talk about "energy" so much.
> 
> And yes........humans are telepathic as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They definitely have something going, and it's major.
> 
> I think they're gifts from God, and their behavior is guided by Him, myself. That's why I believe they'll be in heaven with us.
Click to expand...


----------



## tinydancer

syrenn said:


> Yes. When my cats die i morn their loss. I just spent 20k on one.... you bet they are family.



When I lost Pyewacket after 21 years, it wasn't like I knew the day was going to come and he was going to fight it (I've never seen a beastie fight death like this old orange and white)

Up to the last minute as we held him, he didn't want to go.

I've really had a bad dying year losing Dusty and Bad Ass and our rescue doll C82, now we're faced with our foundation bitch going under the knife and there goes a grand at Christmas.

But you love them and the years they give you being dorks and loving you, what's a thousand dollars?


----------



## tinydancer

For true.

Save pet who's been with you for over a decade or have a bare boned Christmas?

Save Ruby is the answer. And our vet is a champ and Ruby goes under the knife next week.


----------



## Vel

koshergrl said:


> I see them as possessions of my family. I love them very much, but not as much as I love my children, and I won't ransom my kids and my kids' well being for my animals, regardless of how much I love them.
> 
> I have sold off horses and given away pets when for whatever reason they became impossible for me to support without it representing a significant change in my kids' lives (financial hardship, for example, or just plain hardship).
> 
> Right now I'm dealing with a very large, very exhuberant dog that I got before I realized I would be living where I am now (I honestly had no idea), and he's veerrry troubling because he's damaging things. I'm thinking (especially today) hard about whether or not to find him another home. It's a hard decision, but if it's between that and being homeless, guess what? He'd have to go.



 If you've not taken him through a formal obedience class, then I would highly recommend it. Then if you still feel the need to find him a new home, he'll at least having a better chance of not being dumped by a second family. I find it frustrating to know that so many of the dogs that are in shelters are there because someone got them as cute little puppies, failed to do basic obedience training and then when they're no longer little and cute want to make them someone else's problem. If the dog misbehaves, it's because he was not taught appropriate house manners. If he's destroying your house, start with a crate.


----------



## ABikerSailor

tinydancer said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. When my cats die i morn their loss. I just spent 20k on one.... you bet they are family.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I lost Pyewacket after 21 years, it wasn't like I knew the day was going to come and he was going to fight it (I've never seen a beastie fight death like this old orange and white)
> 
> Up to the last minute as we held him, he didn't want to go.
> 
> I've really had a bad dying year losing Dusty and Bad Ass and our rescue doll C82, now we're faced with our foundation bitch going under the knife and there goes a grand at Christmas.
> 
> But you love them and the years they give you being dorks and loving you, what's a thousand dollars?
Click to expand...


Yanno..........I felt the same way when I lost my Big Cat Cement.  He'd fallen off of a tree and broke his hip, and it was pretty touch and go for a couple of weeks, but he recovered.

I had another year with him, of which I was grateful.

One night, his hip broke again.  I hoped that it was just him being sore, but, it broke again and he was dragging himself by his front legs to get where he wanted.

The day I had to take him in, it rained.

Big Cat held on as long as he could, and looked at me while he was going.  

I never want to feel that way again.

Yeah...........I know what it's like.


----------



## koshergrl

It is heartbreaking. My family has always had animals, including livestock, so I learned fairly young the tragedy that often accompanies having animals. And the incredible expense, too! I'm spending money hand over fist (but not a thousand, and for that I'm thankful) on my dog this Christmas, too. I'm at about $200, will spend about $100 more today, and then he goes back in a short time to get fixed, so whatever that costs. Then it's time for the little girl to go in for a checkup as well.

But in all I've been very lucky with them, no major costs except just the cost of feeding them and pet fees and such. I have finally found a food that the terrier can eat without her skin driving her (and me) nuts.

Yesterday the big boy did pretty darned well at the house; I have found a way to keep him occupied. Boxes. Big cardboard boxes filled with stuff...he likes to take the stuff out, and play with the boxes. I discovered this as he has unpacked the last few boxes laying around the house, destroying the contents which (as they are the last few boxes) didn't result in much net loss. Some art supplies and a few books that nobody will miss. So I'm going to find things I can put in the boxes and start leaving those for him to mess with when I go to work. He's such a goof. We're having a good day today, aside from the vet. For the next 10 days, where I go, he goes. Today that will be the beach, the store, the vet office, another appointment, my work (I left one of the kids' gifts there).


----------



## Katzndogz

What is the breed of dog that's destructive?

If he's from a breed known to be highly intelligent, you got a real problem.  Intelligent dogs are easily bored and will always try to "figure it out" making them VERY destructive without sufficient mental stimulation.

A good dog story.

A man I knew had a border collie.  He took his dog to a company picnic.   A lot of people took their dogs to this event.   One other family also had a border collie.  After some mutual sniffing and saying hello, the two dogs, who did not know each other before, decided that what they should do is "guard" the playground and "herd" the children who were wandering off.   As well, intruders were sniffed out for intention whether it be humans or other dogs.

There's no security like dog security.

Needless to say, a bored border collie will rip your sofa apart to see what it's made of.


----------



## Truthmatters

rightwinger said:


> Absolutely
> 
> I have a two year old Austrailian Shepherd who sleeps with us and rarely leaves my side



man oh man I love the herding dogs.


----------



## Truthmatters

Coyote said:


> My guys are definantly family....



looks like we have another herding dog lover


----------



## Ernie S.

westwall said:


> Absolutely!  They have their own Christmas stockings and everything!



Yup. A few weeks ago, the wife and I had to make the decision that every pet owner dreads.
Sugar, our nearly 16 year old Bichon, blind, deaf and unable to negotiate the porch steps any longer has gone to join her mate Bear. I still tear up when I pass the vet's office where she passed in my arms.
Bert and Grover's stockings are hung with ours, but Sugar's is hung dead center front on the tree.


----------



## Ernie S.

Coyote said:


> My guys are definantly family....



Looks like at least 4 baby daddies.


----------



## 007

Ernie S. said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely!  They have their own Christmas stockings and everything!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup. A few weeks ago, the wife and I had to make the decision that every pet owner dreads.
> Sugar, our nearly 16 year old Bichon, blind, deaf and unable to negotiate the porch steps any longer has gone to join her mate Bear. I still tear up when I pass the vet's office where she passed in my arms.
> Bert and Grover's stockings are hung with ours, but Sugar's is hung dead center front on the tree.
Click to expand...


I hear that brother. My little partner of a month shy of twenty years, my big ole orange Tom cat Buttons, just had to have him put to sleep earlier this year. He looked like a walking skeleton and had finally lost control of his bowel movements. I've been single and lived alone just him and I all that time. It was a violent shock to lose him like that. Hurts bad. Everyone in here that has lost a pet knows exactly how it is.

Are they family? You fuckin' A they're family, as much as any other member.


----------



## Samson

Pale Rider said:


> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely!  They have their own Christmas stockings and everything!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup. A few weeks ago, the wife and I had to make the decision that every pet owner dreads.
> Sugar, our nearly 16 year old Bichon, blind, deaf and unable to negotiate the porch steps any longer has gone to join her mate Bear. I still tear up when I pass the vet's office where she passed in my arms.
> Bert and Grover's stockings are hung with ours, but Sugar's is hung dead center front on the tree.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I hear that brother. My little partner of a month shy of twenty years, my big ole orange Tom cat Buttons, just had to have him put to sleep earlier this year. He looked like a walking skeleton and had finally lost control of his bowel movements. I've been single and lived alone just him and I all that time. It was a violent shock to lose him like that. Hurts bad. Everyone in here that has lost a pet knows exactly how it is.
> 
> Are they family? You fuckin' A they're family, as much as any other member.
Click to expand...


We had a Shi Tzu named Shelby. I got her for Delilah shortly after I was captured by the Philistines. One day Shelby was in the backyard, where we thought it would be cool enough for her to stay, but as it is often the case in TX, it didn't stay cool very long. We returned from whatever-the-fuck we had decided to do, and found her suffering from HeatStroke...tried cooling her down, brough her to the emergency vet, he did his best for $700, but to no avail.

Anyway, I said good bye to Shelby. She only wanted to be held and crawled over to me for one last cuddle.

One day about a month or two later I was sitting in the front yard, looking at the tree under which Shelby was buried, when a Shi Tzu jumped into my lap. I looked at the tag, called the owner, who came and picked up the dog. The owner said Samson was something of an escape artist, and I said that I'd be happy to take him if he go tired of casing him down.

A week later we owned Samson.


----------



## Coyote

Truthmatters said:


> looks like we have another herding dog lover



Indeed    Though, there is a ringer in the group - the one that looks suspicially like an Akita 

One of my hobbies with my dogs is herding - Cowboy, who can  no longer do it for physical reasons, really enjoyed it.  I was going through some old videos of him during a lessons and trials and thought I'd share.  If you have a dog with herding heritage - it is fun to go to an "Intro to Herding" event just to see what your dog can do  

PS - disclaimer, Cowboy's butthead moments were due primarily to indept handling on my part   He's very pushy and tends to want to be too close to his sheep.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdL-sEvsETA&context=C3e5609cADOEgsToPDskLIYyaL-QkPnC4wrk_2TBxj]Cowboy working sheep - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## tinydancer

If you really want to have some fun you have to go to the websites like shit my pet destroyed.

Here's one link. The worst of it is, when you think about it, you realize that the pet owners actually took pictures before cleaning up the mess.

Shit My Pet Destroyed


----------



## tinydancer

Ernie S. said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely!  They have their own Christmas stockings and everything!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup. A few weeks ago, the wife and I had to make the decision that every pet owner dreads.
> Sugar, our nearly 16 year old Bichon, blind, deaf and unable to negotiate the porch steps any longer has gone to join her mate Bear. I still tear up when I pass the vet's office where she passed in my arms.
> Bert and Grover's stockings are hung with ours, but Sugar's is hung dead center front on the tree.
Click to expand...


I've been blessed that all my beasties except for American Bad Ass have been taken by the Lord.

When we had to make the decision to put down BA, I've never been thru a nightmare like that but my vet made sure we were with him up to the very last breath. I appreciate that.

It's that last breath than haunts you.It's like a whisper. But I always figured I owed it for all the years they put in with me being my companion, my friend, my buddy who could always put up with me.

If they were going to go to rainbow bridge I always wanted them to have the last words they hear is "I love you. I will always love you".

Doesn't make it easier, but at least I can say I helped them cross the finish line with dignity and love.


----------



## koshergrl

tinydancer said:


> If you really want to have some fun you have to go to the websites like shit my pet destroyed.
> 
> Here's one link. The worst of it is, when you think about it, you realize that the pet owners actually took pictures before cleaning up the mess.
> 
> Shit My Pet Destroyed


 
That's so funny...I always mean to vid the house when it has been decimated; but generally I'm in a huge rush and have to get the dogs outside for a few minutes, restore order (QUICKLY) and get back out the door. 

When he discovers the furniture and lays waste, as I'm sure will eventually happen, I definitely will video THAT. 

He is getting better, big silly boy.


----------



## editec

Yes they are.

And as with most family, they are often an enormous pain in my ass.


----------



## Mr. H.

After 8 years, I've finally found a home for my cat LOL. 

It was a stray, but our dogs attacked it when we brought it home. So I took it to my office figuring someone would take it off my hands. 

She's going to a kindly grandma who recently had to put hers down.


----------



## Politico

I value my pets more than people so I guess so.


----------



## Mr. H.

You sound like Mrs. H. 
She's not a people person, but an animal person. 

She did however produce me a fine offspring with her stout birthing hips.


----------



## Noomi

IMO, if you don't consider your pets as part of your family, you have no business owning a pet.

Your pets should always be considered part of the family. Our dogs are so much part of our family that my sister and I refer to them as our siblings - my mum insists lol but really, I don't mind.


----------



## CrackedSkull

Alan Stallion said:


> As a single person, my two cats are my family. Now if I can just get them to learn how to vacuum and wash dishes.




LoL! I have four and if I could get them to do that I would be on easy street...Wife and I have no kids so yes they are family to us.


----------



## Wolfsister77

I have dogs and cats and yes they are family to me. Absolutely without a doubt as I've rescued and rehabilitated dogs before, you better be prepared to make a commitment for the life of your pet. If you can't afford to take care of a pet or if you don't have time to, don't get one. It isn't fair to them.


----------



## Michelle420

Amelia said:


> Are your pets family?



Yes, sometimes animals are easier to deal with then people.


----------



## Duped

Of course!


----------



## Zoom

Four cats ......four!   But one of them are mine.  Love Mama.  She is the best damn cat.


----------



## Lumpy 1

Amelia said:


> Are your pets family?



Well the dogs are, cats eh.


----------



## Mr. H.

Seems my cat is doing fine in her new home. Getting along with the other feline, checking out the house, sleeping on grandma's sofa. She's in a much better environment than what I could provide these past 8 years. 

Do I miss her.....


naaaaaa.


----------



## skye

My pets are family.


----------



## Dreamy

Definitely! Sox & Sassy are my little loves.


----------



## Connery

Without question!!! Dogs. In addition, my place has been recognized as a wildlife refuge.


----------



## Mr. H.

I haven't been without a pet in the house for 32 years. 

It's a war of attrition. 

All I ask is for a little animal respit.


----------



## strollingbones

2 dogs 4 cats......big family and they are better than my extended family


----------



## Coyote

Connery said:


> Without question!!! Dogs. *In addition, my place has been recognized as a wildlife refuge*.



I'm dying to say...can't resist....fleas don't count as wildlife!

Seriously though - I have 5 dogs and a cat....most certainly family....and periodic fosters making their way through   Is that your sheltie in your sig?  They're great dogs


----------



## Coyote

Lumpy 1 said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are your pets family?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well the dogs are, cats eh.
Click to expand...


Are you in a servile relationship with your cats?


----------



## eots

I Had a pittbull   that was the love of my life but now shes gone I cant bring myself to get another, maybe one day...still have the Burmese ...Kassey- Kat and Mo-Mo..


----------



## Shogun

hell yea the pets are family.

the puppies are now 2 years old and a well behaved; the days of shitting in the house and chewing things up are behind us.

Doobie, the oldest, just has a *10.2 pound* fatty tumor removed from his back.  Doing great now.


----------



## Claudette

Coyote said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> looks like we have another herding dog lover
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed    Though, there is a ringer in the group - the one that looks suspicially like an Akita
> 
> One of my hobbies with my dogs is herding - Cowboy, who can  no longer do it for physical reasons, really enjoyed it.  I was going through some old videos of him during a lessons and trials and thought I'd share.  If you have a dog with herding heritage - it is fun to go to an "Intro to Herding" event just to see what your dog can do
> 
> PS - disclaimer, Cowboy's butthead moments were due primarily to indept handling on my part   He's very pushy and tends to want to be too close to his sheep.
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdL-sEvsETA&context=C3e5609cADOEgsToPDskLIYyaL-QkPnC4wrk_2TBxj]Cowboy working sheep - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...


Hell yeah. I think more of my dogs than I do of most people. 

People lie, steal, cheat. Hell they'd kill ya for 50 cents. 

Not your dog. He loves ya as you are. He doesn't car how rich you are or if your poor. Very non judgmental.

My GSD would protect me with the last breath in his body. Can't say the same for to many people. 

I currently have four dogs. Zip by Border Terrier mix. Murph my Schnoodle. Abbey my GSD mix and Sammy. He's an I don't know what terrier. I will be getting a DNA just to figure out what the hell he is. LOL

Just lost Jake, my last Border Collie. Hell of a herding dog. Such eye and he could work em from a distance. He was a rescue dog that turned into one hell of a herding dog. Easy to live with as well. One great dog that I miss every day. What a guy he truly was. 

Had loads of fun with my BC's. Herding is great fun.


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