# Doctor Who: The woman who fell to Earth



## JoeB131 (Oct 8, 2018)

So we got our first full episode with Jody Whittaker as the Thirteenth Doctor. 

I thought the story was mostly okay.  It had most of the elements you would expect in an episode that introduced a new Doctor and new companions - three of them this time.  Whittaker played the role pretty well.  

Not a whole lot was made of the fact that the Doctor is a woman now... 

That new costume! Ugh.  But I've seen worse.  

Anyone else watch it?


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## there4eyeM (Oct 8, 2018)

Who?


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## Hugo Furst (Oct 8, 2018)

Tried to, DISH receiver went out.

Hoping for a rerun after I get replacement


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## Harry Dresden (Oct 8, 2018)

i dont know if i can handle a 2,000 year old guy trapped in a womans body...


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## JoeB131 (Oct 9, 2018)

Harry Dresden said:


> i dont know if i can handle a 2,000 year old guy trapped in a womans body...



So the 2000 year old guy in the magic time-travelling box is okay, but turn him into a chick and that's a bridge too far?


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## Harry Dresden (Oct 9, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > i dont know if i can handle a 2,000 year old guy trapped in a womans body...
> ...


yea joe it is....i grew up DC,Marvel and Gold Key Comics and i just cant stand it when someone gets to take over a character that has been around a while and changes the character because because THEY never liked this or that about the character,so they change it to what they want the character to be....the Doctor is now a 2,000 year old MALE now trapped in a female body.....so i guess this season should be very humorous.....


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## JoeB131 (Oct 10, 2018)

Harry Dresden said:


> yea joe it is....i grew up DC,Marvel and Gold Key Comics and i just cant stand it when someone gets to take over a character that has been around a while and changes the character because because THEY never liked this or that about the character,so they change it to what they want the character to be....the Doctor is now a 2,000 year old MALE now trapped in a female body.....so i guess this season should be very humorous.....



Two points here, Harry.  First, comic book characters change all the time. Batman went from a ruthless killer to a campy clown to an angst filled hero over his 80 year history.  Wonder woman went from this campy BDSM character to a feminist icon.  

Change is kind of a key part of Doctor Who.  It has been since Patrick Troughton decided that HIS version of the Doctor was going to be totally different than William Hartnell's. 

All that said, the first episode was kind of standard. It had all the elements you normally find in a post-regeneration episode. Doctor is out of it when there is a threat to Earth or the Universe, his companions try to figure out what is going on while she makes a recovery. Then the Doctor recovers just in time to defeat the threat. Somewhere in there she picks out a new costume that will be cosplay for years and remarks, "Oh, that's what I look like now."  

Tom Baker and Matt Smith pulled this story off about the best.


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## Harry Dresden (Oct 10, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > yea joe it is....i grew up DC,Marvel and Gold Key Comics and i just cant stand it when someone gets to take over a character that has been around a while and changes the character because because THEY never liked this or that about the character,so they change it to what they want the character to be....the Doctor is now a 2,000 year old MALE now trapped in a female body.....so i guess this season should be very humorous.....
> ...


i do believe if you were a man for 2000 years and suddenly see you are now a female it would be more than "Oh, that's what I look like now." .......we will see how many people stick around.....


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## EvilCat Breath (Oct 10, 2018)

This might destroy the entire franchise.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 11, 2018)

Harry Dresden said:


> i do believe if you were a man for 2000 years and suddenly see you are now a female it would be more than "Oh, that's what I look like now." .......we will see how many people stick around.....



again, already been established Time Lords can change gender and it's just not a big deal.  

Now, I know that toxic Masculinity has infected too much Sci-Fi these days, given the reactions to the New Star Wars and Star Trek Discovery, but hey, hopefully DW fans can show they are better than that. 



Tipsycatlover said:


> This might destroy the entire franchise.



Yes, how dare the woman be the  hero and not the supporting character who asks dumb question or waits to be rescued?


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## Harry Dresden (Oct 11, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > i do believe if you were a man for 2000 years and suddenly see you are now a female it would be more than "Oh, that's what I look like now." .......we will see how many people stick around.....
> ...


the ratings were already down joe.....lets see how many people feel like you do....lots tuned in for her first episode,lets see how many stick around....


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## Hugo Furst (Oct 11, 2018)

Harry Dresden said:


> the ratings were already down joe.



Because of the idiot they had playing the Doctor.

I could barely stand to watch him, and I've, thanks to youtube, seen every episode since the 60s, including the ones with  Peter Cushing


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## Harry Dresden (Oct 11, 2018)

WillHaftawaite said:


> Harry Dresden said:
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> > the ratings were already down joe.
> ...


it was more than that....the stories were not that great either......


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## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2018)

Harry Dresden said:


> the ratings were already down joe.....lets see how many people feel like you do....lots tuned in for her first episode,lets see how many stick around....



The question is how it does in the UK, not necessarily World Wide. 

What I found interesting in the week leading up to the premeire, they reran all the Tennant and Matt Smith episodes, but none of the Capaldi episodes..


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## Hugo Furst (Oct 12, 2018)

Loved Tennant, finally got used to Smith, but when Clara left, it was hard to put up with Capaldi episodes


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## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2018)

WillHaftawaite said:


> Loved Tennant, finally got used to Smith, but when Clara left, it was hard to put up with Capaldi episodes



Clara mostly annoyed me, especially in her last season.  I didn't mind Bill that much, but I think where they really shot themselves in the foot was having nearly a year hiatus between seasons- no new episodes for the whole of 2016.  

I think the biggest problem with the Capaldi era, besides the fact that he was kind of wrong for the role - great actor, not just for that role - was that a lot of the stories were derivative. 

The whole of Season 8 was the return of the Master. Okay, that was also the whole plot line of Season 3.  And about half the fans figured out Missy was the Master in female form, so it wasn't even that big of a shock. Two Dalek stories, two Cyberman stories... kind of going to the same well too many times.


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## Windparadox (Oct 12, 2018)

`
Like all the Dr Who's I've seen, it will be on reruns or DVD's. River Song was a female time lord, more or less.


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## Hugo Furst (Oct 12, 2018)

Windparadox said:


> River Song was a female time lord, more or less.



to a degree, yes

she was the daughter of Amy Pond


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## fncceo (Oct 12, 2018)

With a woman in the eponymous role, shouldn't it be ... Nurse Who?


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## gtopa1 (Oct 12, 2018)

Windparadox said:


> `
> Like all the Dr Who's I've seen, it will be on reruns or DVD's. River Song was a female time lord, more or less.


Yes, but whatever happened top The Doctor's daughter? 

Greg


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## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2018)

gtopa1 said:


> Yes, but whatever happened top The Doctor's daughter?
> 
> Greg



The actress who played her married David Tennant.  

She was also the daughter of Peter Davison, the Fifth Doctor.


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## Windparadox (Oct 12, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> The actress who played her married David Tennant. She was also the daughter of Peter Davison, the Fifth Doctor.


`
Karen Gillan is one of my favorite actors.


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## Hugo Furst (Oct 12, 2018)

Way too slender for my taste....

but the Bobby uniform she was wearing when the Dr first met her...


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## Harry Dresden (Oct 12, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Harry Dresden said:
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> 
> > the ratings were already down joe.....lets see how many people feel like you do....lots tuned in for her first episode,lets see how many stick around....
> ...


if it doesnt do good world wide its effectively a dead show....


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## JoeB131 (Oct 13, 2018)

Harry Dresden said:


> if it doesnt do good world wide its effectively a dead show....



Not really.  The BBC has never really cared that much about how it does World Wide.  

Have you ever watched the rest of the programming on BBC America? 

It's mostly reruns of American SF Shows and movies.


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## Flash (Oct 13, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> [
> 
> Have you ever watched the rest of the programming on BBC America?
> 
> It's mostly reruns of American SF Shows and movies.



...with an over abundance of commercial breaks.


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## Harry Dresden (Oct 13, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Harry Dresden said:
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> 
> > if it doesnt do good world wide its effectively a dead show....
> ...


sure joe,im sure thats it....that show has made them a lot of money because it went world wide, im sure they want it to be just a local show again.....


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## JoeB131 (Oct 14, 2018)

Harry Dresden said:


> sure joe,im sure thats it....that show has made them a lot of money because it went world wide, im sure they want it to be just a local show again.....



Again, the reason why it was cancelled in 1989 was because it had lousy ratings in the UK, not that it was doing well in the rest of the world.  

IN the UK, The Woman who Fell to Earth got the best ratings for a season premiere since David Tennant.


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## Harry Dresden (Oct 14, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > sure joe,im sure thats it....that show has made them a lot of money because it went world wide, im sure they want it to be just a local show again.....
> ...


it wasnt doing well anywhere....and many of those people who tuned in just wanted to see how good or bad it was....the first show means shit,i thought you would have figured that out by yourself joe....its the next ones that count and how many people stick with it....


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## JoeB131 (Oct 15, 2018)

Harry Dresden said:


> it wasnt doing well anywhere....and many of those people who tuned in just wanted to see how good or bad it was....the first show means shit,i thought you would have figured that out by yourself joe....its the next ones that count and how many people stick with it.



89 it still had a pretty big worldwide cult following, but the BBC canceled it because it's UK Ratings were poor.  There was enough of a cult following still by 1996 where Fox tried that TV movie with Paul McGann...


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## Hellbilly (Oct 15, 2018)

Harry Dresden said:


> i dont know if i can handle a 2,000 year old guy trapped in a womans body...



The Doctor is not human.


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## Windparadox (Oct 15, 2018)

Billyboom said:


> The Doctor is not human.


`
Neither are millions of other TV, book, movie and comic characters.


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## Harry Dresden (Oct 15, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > it wasnt doing well anywhere....and many of those people who tuned in just wanted to see how good or bad it was....the first show means shit,i thought you would have figured that out by yourself joe....its the next ones that count and how many people stick with it.
> ...


not what i read joe....here is the guy who cancelled it.....*" The BBC General Director at the time, Michael Grade, defended his decision for canceling the series. “I cancelled it. It was absolutely the right decision at the time ... The show was ghastly. It was pathetic ... It lost its way.”......*i dont agree with him,but thats why he canceled it.....


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## Harry Dresden (Oct 15, 2018)

Billyboom said:


> Harry Dresden said:
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> > i dont know if i can handle a 2,000 year old guy trapped in a womans body...
> ...


are you serious?........


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## Hellbilly (Oct 15, 2018)

Harry Dresden said:


> Billyboom said:
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> 
> > Harry Dresden said:
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Have you ever watched the show?

Sent from my SM-J727VPP using Tapatalk


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## Harry Dresden (Oct 15, 2018)

Billyboom said:


> Harry Dresden said:
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> > Billyboom said:
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how the fuck would i know the guy is 2,000 years old if i have never watched the show?...have you ever been in any of the other Doctor threads here?...if you have you might learn something about those you post with...


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## Hellbilly (Oct 15, 2018)

Harry Dresden said:


> Billyboom said:
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> > Harry Dresden said:
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How can you not know the Doctor is an alien? 

Sent from my SM-J727VPP using Tapatalk


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## Harry Dresden (Oct 15, 2018)

Billyboom said:


> Harry Dresden said:
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> > Billyboom said:
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who said i did not know that?....let me ask you something....has the doctor always been a male Gallifreyan?....


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## Witchit (Oct 16, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> So we got our first full episode with Jody Whittaker as the Thirteenth Doctor.
> 
> I thought the story was mostly okay.  It had most of the elements you would expect in an episode that introduced a new Doctor and new companions - three of them this time.  Whittaker played the role pretty well.
> 
> ...



I liked it well enough. My sister LOVES the new Doctor. Shouldn't have any trouble getting her to tune in every week!


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## JoeB131 (Oct 16, 2018)

Harry Dresden said:


> who said i did not know that?....let me ask you something....has the doctor always been a male Gallifreyan?....



The Master had always been a male Gallifreyan until she became "Missy".


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## JoeB131 (Oct 16, 2018)

Witchit said:


> I liked it well enough. My sister LOVES the new Doctor. Shouldn't have any trouble getting her to tune in every week!



I think the first two episodes were pretty good. It looks like they are making her more in the mold of Smith and Tenant than Capaldi.


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## Witchit (Oct 16, 2018)

I liked Capaldi. I gather I’m in the minority.

I hope to see Missy again.


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## Harry Dresden (Oct 16, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > who said i did not know that?....let me ask you something....has the doctor always been a male Gallifreyan?....
> ...


you mean until HE became her?....and are we talking about a once in a while character or the main guy?.....


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## Witchit (Oct 16, 2018)

Harry Dresden said:


> JoeB131 said:
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> > Harry Dresden said:
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So are you saying that if it’s not the Doctor, it doesn’t count? The Master is on equal footing with the Doctor.


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## Harry Dresden (Oct 16, 2018)

Witchit said:


> Harry Dresden said:
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> > JoeB131 said:
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is he?....how come the Doctor always bests him?......the Doctor is considered a genius by Gallifreyan standards........


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## JoeB131 (Oct 17, 2018)

Witchit said:


> I liked Capaldi. I gather I’m in the minority.
> 
> I hope to see Missy again.



I don't think we are going to, at least not played by Michelle Gomez. I think it is likely another version of Missy/The Master will show up.  Yeah, I know they "killed" her in her last appearance, but by my count the Master has been "killed' about a dozen times. Gomez, however, has said she's done with the role.  

I like Capaldi, but I think he wasn't really what the fans were used to. He played the Doctor as a crotchety older guy, like Hartnell or Pertwee, which is what he grew up with. The fans were used to a younger more dynamic Doctor like Smith or Tennant.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 17, 2018)

Harry Dresden said:


> you mean until HE became her?....and are we talking about a once in a while character or the main guy?.....



I think the Master is more than a "Once in a while Character". 



Harry Dresden said:


> is he?....how come the Doctor always bests him?......the Doctor is considered a genius by Gallifreyan standards........



Which is why the Character was introduced back in the Pertwee era, to be a match for the Doctor.  But wow, a show where the good guy bests the bad guy?  That's just unheard of.  

Here was the thing, they turned the Master into a chick and it was probably the best interpretation of the character since Roger Delgado.


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## Harry Dresden (Oct 17, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > you mean until HE became her?....and are we talking about a once in a while character or the main guy?.....
> ...


*I think the Master is more than a "Once in a while Character".*
out of the the 800 plus episodes the master has appeared in 38 stories which is 103 episodes...so yes he was a once in a while character...
*a show where the good guy bests the bad guy?  That's just unheard of. *
someone commented that the Master was an equal to the Doctor Joe....if he was im sure he would have beaten the Doctor once or twice....in one of the 4th Doctor novels that went back to their days at the Time Lord Academy the Master told Romana that the Doctor is more clever than any of us,meaning he and Romana,the Monk,the Rani and the War Chief....they were all in the same class...


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## JoeB131 (Oct 18, 2018)

Harry Dresden said:


> *I think the Master is more than a "Once in a while Character".*
> out of the the 800 plus episodes the master has appeared in 38 stories which is 103 episodes...so yes he was a once in a while character...



I guess you can make that stretch... The issue is quality of appearances, not quantity.  



Harry Dresden said:


> *a show where the good guy bests the bad guy? That's just unheard of. *
> someone commented that the Master was an equal to the Doctor Joe....if he was im sure he would have beaten the Doctor once or twice....in one of the 4th Doctor novels that went back to their days at the Time Lord Academy the Master told Romana that the Doctor is more clever than any of us,meaning he and Romana,the Monk,the Rani and the War Chief....they were all in the same class...



Are novels "canon".  I'll go with what Twelve said to Missy in 


"I am not a good man, and I'm not a bad man. I am not a hero and I'm definitely not a president and no I'm not an officer. You know what I am? I am an idiot, with a box and a screwdriver, just passing through, helping out, learning.  I don't need an army, I never have, because I've got them, always them, because love is not an emotion, love is a promise."

What gives the Doctor the advantage over the Master is his companions.


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## Harry Dresden (Oct 18, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > *I think the Master is more than a "Once in a while Character".*
> ...


many of the early novels were written by some of the shows writers...and many of them expound on the things only mentioned in the shows....especially the Doctors early history....


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## JoeB131 (Oct 19, 2018)

Harry Dresden said:


> many of the early novels were written by some of the shows writers...and many of them expound on the things only mentioned in the shows....especially the Doctors early history....



I've read some of those novels, they weren't very good, and probably not canon.  I'll go with what's in the show.


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## Harry Dresden (Oct 19, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > many of the early novels were written by some of the shows writers...and many of them expound on the things only mentioned in the shows....especially the Doctors early history....
> ...


yea they were not very good joe.....you said the same thing about the Star Trek novels.....its funny how the fans of both shows who actually do read the novels have overwhelmingly said the novels were better and more imaginative then most of the episodes of the shows....for such shitty books they seem to have sold pretty dam good over the years and have won quite a few Scify writing awards.....the BBC has never made a pronouncement about what is and what is not Canon for the show....Steven Moffat at the San Diego Comic-Con when asked about the Novels said that they are an equally valid continuity for the show since some of the writers have written episodes for the show....so stick with the show joe....


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## JoeB131 (Oct 20, 2018)

Harry Dresden said:


> yea they were not very good joe.....you said the same thing about the Star Trek novels.....its funny how the fans of both shows who actually do read the novels have overwhelmingly said the novels were better and more imaginative then most of the episodes of the shows...



Only a moron would say that.  

Here's the problem with a lot of these Schlock Novelizations...The characters don't change.  The hallmark of a good story is how the events of the story changed the character. The Corporate Approved Novels are the exact opposite of that. 

As far as what sells... crap usually sells...


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## Harry Dresden (Oct 20, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > yea they were not very good joe.....you said the same thing about the Star Trek novels.....its funny how the fans of both shows who actually do read the novels have overwhelmingly said the novels were better and more imaginative then most of the episodes of the shows...
> ...


only a moron would say what you said joe...and the characters change as much as they do on the shows,you would know that if you actually read any of these things....so here is the real problem....you have never read any of these novels....so quit telling me you have....


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## JoeB131 (Oct 21, 2018)

Harry Dresden said:


> only a moron would say what you said joe...and the characters change as much as they do on the shows,you would know that if you actually read any of these things....so here is the real problem....you have never read any of these novels....so quit telling me you have....



Okay, guy, whatever... The thing is, I've actually read good SF novels... Heinlein, Asimov, etc...   

These corporate approved knockoffs don't compare.


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## Harry Dresden (Oct 21, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > only a moron would say what you said joe...and the characters change as much as they do on the shows,you would know that if you actually read any of these things....so here is the real problem....you have never read any of these novels....so quit telling me you have....
> ...


in other words you never read any like i have been saying.....its hard to give an intelligent reply to something you have never experienced...


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## JoeB131 (Oct 22, 2018)

Harry Dresden said:


> n other words you never read any like i have been saying.....its hard to give an intelligent reply to something you have never experienced...



No, I have and they are crap.  What I do remember was the one that was based on the second Tom Baker Dalek story, where they try to explain away why Romana changed her appearance about six times.  It really wasn't a good explanation.


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## Harry Dresden (Oct 22, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > n other words you never read any like i have been saying.....its hard to give an intelligent reply to something you have never experienced...
> ...


sure joe people just kept on reading them because they were crap and that novel your describing was not a novel but the 1st episode of the 4th Doctors 6th season "Destiny of the Daleks"...it was a script written by Carrie Nation but was changed around by Douglas Adams who was trying to treat regeneration humorlessly .....so the so called novels you read were the TV adaptations in novel form....try reading an original one....


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## JoeB131 (Oct 22, 2018)

Harry Dresden said:


> sure joe people just kept on reading them because they were crap and that novel your describing was not a novel but the 1st episode of the 4th Doctors 6th season "Destiny of the Daleks"...it was a script written by Carrie Nation but was changed around by Douglas Adams who was trying to treat regeneration humorlessly .....so the so called novels you read were the TV adaptations in novel form....try reading an original one....


First, I work 80 hour a week on my business, so when I have time to read, I won't waste it on fluff. 

Second, yes, the explanation they gave was pretty lame for that scene... that was my point.


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## Harry Dresden (Oct 22, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > sure joe people just kept on reading them because they were crap and that novel your describing was not a novel but the 1st episode of the 4th Doctors 6th season "Destiny of the Daleks"...it was a script written by Carrie Nation but was changed around by Douglas Adams who was trying to treat regeneration humorlessly .....so the so called novels you read were the TV adaptations in novel form....try reading an original one....
> ...


if you thought the novelizations of the tv episodes were shit joe,the question i have to ask is....why do you watch the show?....the novelizations are the episodes in book form....you must think the show aint that great then.....


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## JoeB131 (Oct 23, 2018)

Harry Dresden said:


> if you thought the novelizations of the tv episodes were shit joe,the question i have to ask is....why do you watch the show?....the novelizations are the episodes in book form....you must think the show aint that great then.....



The show was fun to watch because of the great characterizations and because it was kind of campy and fun.  What made the classic series great to watch were the performances by Tom Baker and Jon Pertwee... (The other actors, not quite so much.)


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## Witchit (Oct 23, 2018)




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## JoeB131 (Oct 24, 2018)

Actually, the Jon Pertwee episodes were pretty good, too.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 30, 2018)

So four episodes in, I'm noticing some patterns.  

First, a lack of aliens/monsters.  In four of the stories, other humans have largely been the antagonists, including the most recent one where Chris Noth played a Trump Clone who was almost as crazy as the genuine article.  Now, I've read that Chinball doesn't want to use the classic monsters like the Daleks and Cybermen, but create new villains.. but come on, this is Doctor Who, we need some real monsters.  

Second, Whitaker's Doctor seems a lot more pleasant than Capaldi's, more warm and human, but also bit quirkier. 

The Companions seem pretty much run of the mill, the usual regular folks who get pulled off on these adventures and then find their own lives too mundane to go back to. I don't think any of these actors are doing a bad job, but there's nothing original here.


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