# New way of making solar panels



## Chris (Feb 21, 2010)

A new way of making solar cells promises a cheaper way to generate electricity from the sun and new ways to integrate solar power into other products. 

Solar cells, or photovoltaics, are widely made using wafers of silicon that are stiff and brittle. California Institute of Technology physics professor Harry Atwater is making photovoltaics differently.

"Our technology uses 50-100 times less silicon," he said, "in the form of a sparse array of wires. And that sparse array of wires has exactly the same light absorption and electricity-collection properties as the conventional silicon wafer cell."

The tiny silicon wires stick up from the base, or substrate, looking something like a microscopic hair brush. And because the key component of solar cells is an expensive, highly purified form of silicon, there's a real economic benefit to this design.

"So what that means is, in terms of cost, is you can use 100 times less silicon. And that's potentially very significant."

But the silicon is what converts light into electricity, so you might think using so much less silicon would reduce the electrical output, but Atwater says that's not the case. 

"The light comes in and is both directly absorbed by the wires, and some of the light bounces around in between the wires. And that bouncing around or multiple scattering in between the wires results in dramatically enhanced absorption," Atwater explained. "In fact, the absorption enhancement that we see is in the range of 20 to 50 times the single-pass absorbance."

New Way of Making Solar Cells Promises Cheaper Power | Science and Technology | English


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## rdean (Feb 21, 2010)

Chris said:


> A new way of making solar cells promises a cheaper way to generate electricity from the sun and new ways to integrate solar power into other products.
> 
> Solar cells, or photovoltaics, are widely made using wafers of silicon that are stiff and brittle. California Institute of Technology physics professor Harry Atwater is making photovoltaics differently.
> 
> ...



http://www.usmessageboard.com/scien...-flexible-solar-cells-electric-hot-pants.html

Curious that science stuff generates so little interest.  Especially since that is the real future of the country.

You know what's funny?  George Will and his speech about, "The cream rising to the top".  He was talking about the separation between the haves and the have nots in this country.  Yet Republicans have so little interest in really making "good" money.  

Republicans believe "skimming" money off insurance policies is "making money" or "moving it around" in the stock market.  The real and true root of capitalism is making goods or creating services and selling them.  Getting money for something concrete.  Money skimming is legal, but it may not always be.


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## code1211 (Feb 21, 2010)

rdean said:


> Chris said:
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> > A new way of making solar cells promises a cheaper way to generate electricity from the sun and new ways to integrate solar power into other products.
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Wow!


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## code1211 (Feb 21, 2010)

Chris said:


> A new way of making solar cells promises a cheaper way to generate electricity from the sun and new ways to integrate solar power into other products.
> 
> Solar cells, or photovoltaics, are widely made using wafers of silicon that are stiff and brittle. California Institute of Technology physics professor Harry Atwater is making photovoltaics differently.
> 
> ...




Another example of how science is going to advance making the whole stop CO2 now charade just another footnote in history.

By 2100, petroleum as fuel will be as pervasive as Whale Oil as fuel is today.


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 21, 2010)

code1211 said:


> Chris said:
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> > A new way of making solar cells promises a cheaper way to generate electricity from the sun and new ways to integrate solar power into other products.
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Not if the Warmers have their way. You can not make large fields of solar panels because that would effect the environment where the panels are deployed. Democrats have already shot down one such farm. You can not put up large fields of turbines because they are eye sores, another Democrat shot that down.

All that leaves is putting the panels on existing buildings.

The cheaper they get the more likely they will become more standard on homes. The problem is not only the panels need to become cheaper and better, the batteries that store the electricity need to become smaller, less toxic and cheaper as well.

By the way? All those people against space exploration? Wanna guess where Solar panels came into play and why a lot of the research into making them smaller and more effective came from?


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## rdean (Feb 21, 2010)

RetiredGySgt said:


> code1211 said:
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I'm just so tired of liars.  Don't you guys get tired of lying? Most of those on the Right swear they follow a God.  What is it, the God of "Lies"?

Most engineers and scientists ARE Democrats.  They understand that these turbines are simply too dangerous to put in populated areas.  As big as a 747, the technology is new and when it goes, it can send pieces larger than automobiles a half mile in every direction.

And people bitch at me for being too partisan.

Oh, and by the way, the money used to develop this new technology comes from "pork" earmarks that Republcians want to end.

Oh, and by the way, one of the problems with solar panels is when they weather, they release resins and other material leached out by wind, sun and rain into the soil.  Which is why the are being extensively weather tested so we know they aren't poisoning the surrounding area.  If more Republicans would finish school, they would know all that.












[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nSB1SdVHqQ]YouTube - Windmill/Wind Turbine Explosion[/ame]


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 21, 2010)

rdean said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
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Proof of ignorance and foolishness. Democrats have opposed every big farm for turbines and solar panels presented. No matter where they are to be built and it is the Republicans fault we do not have more wind Farms and solar farms?

Remind us again how 40 Republicans blocked everything in a 100 member Senate. Remind us again how 170 Republicans blocked anything in a 435 member House.

Talk about delusional.


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## Baruch Menachem (Feb 21, 2010)

Just very very cool, very interesting.  Thanks so much for posting about that.

The problem with solar is the whole installation thing.  The batteries and the conversion to household AC.  The panels aren't such a much for cost, but anything that reduces the cost is a wonderful.  Especially if it is flexible and easy to mount.

This will also be a huge gain in rural areas.   


The next big thing will have to be in energy storage.   But this is a real cool next step.


As for the wind farms.  They are incredibly noisy and ugly.   And the power generated is not really enough to justify them.  All the folks who love them live in big cities and don't have to look at them.  Or listen to them.   I can see why local politicians have huge NIMBY problems with them.    Local politicians are supposed to listen to their constituents and save them from monstrosities like that.     Of course, the poor power company gets it from both sides.  They get mandated wind requirements, and the same politicians who insist they do wind farms won't let them build them anywhere near them.

But this so cool, I wish I could pos rep Chris twice for it.


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## Chris (Feb 21, 2010)

Once these technologies are perfected, every roof in America should be made of solar panels instead of roofing tiles.

It will happen one day.


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## rdean (Feb 21, 2010)

Chris said:


> Once these technologies are perfected, every roof in America should be made of solar panels instead of roofing tiles.
> 
> It will happen one day.



I also believe that.


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## rdean (Feb 21, 2010)

RetiredGySgt said:


> rdean said:
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I'm sorry I was rude.  I'll try to explain it.

We have to get it right.  We don't have the money for anything else.  Remember, more than 1/3 of the stimulus package was Republican tax cuts which I'm not complaining about.  I'm only pointing out that it was bipartisan, otherwise, we know there would have been no tax cuts.

Money from the stimulus went into the development of this new solar panel which is currently being developed and tested.

But lets look first at wind turbines.

Pluses with wind -
-Renewable resource

Problems -
-Dangerous - when they fail, they explode
-vulnerable to lighting and tornadoes, hurricanes and other types of wind storms
-expensive  with more than 6,000 heavily machined parts
-lack of experts and technicians

Other Questions and issues-
-Such large fans could possibly change wind patterns
-Areas like Detroit which produced cars could take over the heavy machining required
-It's been suggested to mount them on huge barges that could be moved offshore where the danger is less, noise less and they could be moved out of the way of approaching storms.

Now, because we have spent all our money on Iraq, Afghanistan and Katrina cleanup, whatever we spend has to count.  That means a certain amount of research.  What money we have has three competitors - wind, solar, nuclear. 

Next post on Solar because I know a little more about that.


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## Old Rocks (Feb 21, 2010)

RetiredGySgt said:


> code1211 said:
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Really. That is just about as accurate as my stating that all Republicans hate windmills because some here do.

Here in Oregon where Republicans are an endangered species, we are putting in wind turbines as fast as they can make them. Neighborhoods are forming alliances that buy solar in bulk so it is cheaper for everybody. The people installing the panels are now booked up for nearly a year.

As plug in hybrids and pure electrics come on line, the solar panels will be even greater, with a much shorter payback period.

Then you have the vast commercial and industrial rooftops. Huge potential there.

While the storage batteries are a good thing, the grid parallel invertors are even better. 

And this progressive liberal is all for space exploration. We have had more payback from the money we put into that than any other project, excepting the Corp of Discovery.


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## Old Rocks (Feb 21, 2010)

Baruch Menachem said:


> Just very very cool, very interesting.  Thanks so much for posting about that.
> 
> The problem with solar is the whole installation thing.  The batteries and the conversion to household AC.  The panels aren't such a much for cost, but anything that reduces the cost is a wonderful.  Especially if it is flexible and easy to mount.
> 
> ...



*Solar is cool. And very much a part of our energy future. Here in Oregon, especially in Central and Southeastern Oregon there is a wonderful triple potential. Geothermal, wind, solar and thermal solar are all potential sources there. A big grid line from Klamath Falls to the Idaho border would be able to pick up all three of the sources here. Best of all, it is almost all public land with very few people anywhere in the area.*


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## rdean (Feb 21, 2010)

Old Rocks said:


> Baruch Menachem said:
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> 
> > Just very very cool, very interesting.  Thanks so much for posting about that.
> ...



I know for a fact that an environmental test chamber is being developed to test full size solar panels.  The chamber won't be designed until the specifications are fully worked out.  But you know that full spectrum lighting of over 12,000 Watts, refrigeration, high air flow and sprays will be included.

There will be a number of targets:

Panel degradation (from heat, cold, water, wind) and how that affects the production of electricity
Panel degradation and what materials may leech from the panels
Panel life determination

Chambers are already available in Japan and Germany and the cost is way too high and not all those features are offered.

As soon as a project such as this is approved, panels are set up in Arizona, Norway, Florida and Germany.  Something like this will take between 1 and 2 years to be developed.  By that time, you will have panels that have been fully weathered.  Panels are exposed inside this chamber and compared to "field" panels.  When the degradation matches, you have developed "programs" in four extremely different environments.  

It's obvious I know what I'm talking about.  From that kind of testing, Round Robins are initiated by various companies and the government and standards are written for safety and proper operation.  That's just the way it works.

While I may not know that much about the panels themselves, I know how they are tested and graded (safety and durability).

I've also been doing some graphics for a company that takes old railroad water towers and water towers on the tops of buildings in urban areas and removes the tank and replaces it with turbines of the following shape, but much, much smaller.  Apparently they are much safer than the regular wind turbines.  Have you seen any of these in Oregon?


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## dextercath96 (May 9, 2010)

Yes I agree with you Chris. The new way is to use alternative energy because it is efficient to use this energy. I am using my Solar Power Generator. If we will continue to use this sun produce energy, our environment will surely pollution free.


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## Big Fitz (May 9, 2010)

Hah!  The beginning of quantum well tech used to harvest electrons out of solar energy.  Marvelous.  I've stated it before; residential and commercial property solar cells will go a long way for increasing the stability of the whole grid, lower home energy bills with no sacrifice to consumer lifestyles.

Marvelous.  Now, once this is ready for home purchase, you will see some serious positive changes.


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## Big Fitz (May 9, 2010)

rdean said:


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Except it doesn't EXIST yet!  that's a computer model special effects shot.  The technology is not there to make it work yet.  Maybe in 20 years.


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## gordondi (Nov 1, 2011)

Solar panel can easily become the important energy source in the future as the energy and heat is natural and we just need to set up a solar panel and no extra expense is required.


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## Big Fitz (Nov 1, 2011)

great.  more necrotardia.


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## nitroz (Nov 1, 2011)

Don't care. We are NOT having another thing like that unless the government runs it itself.


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## bevanwillson (Nov 4, 2011)

Solar panels colorado has the greatest solar resource potential in the nation. We can protect our environment and move to a cleaner energy future by using our technological know how to tap into solar energy. Thanks for describing about panels.

solar panels colorado


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## code1211 (Nov 5, 2011)

Baruch Menachem said:


> Just very very cool, very interesting.  Thanks so much for posting about that.
> 
> The problem with solar is the whole installation thing.  The batteries and the conversion to household AC.  The panels aren't such a much for cost, but anything that reduces the cost is a wonderful.  Especially if it is flexible and easy to mount.
> 
> ...





At some point in the not too distant future, re-roofing a house will carry a cost that is roughly equal between shingles that keep out the rain and shingles that keep out the rain AND generate the electric for the appliances in the house.

When that happens, we will see the field of our solar power dreams occur on the roofs of our houses.

How many million acres of photo voltaic collection possibility exists on the roofs of our homes?


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## Douger (Nov 5, 2011)

Your masters have already geared up to transform the battery movie. Lithium.
Of course they told you they were only there to take FreeDumb and DemoNcrasy to the Afghan people.
US discovers natural desposits of gold, iron, copper and lithium in Afghanistan | Mail Online


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## naomibee (Nov 5, 2011)

Chris said:


> Once these technologies are perfected, every roof in America should be made of solar panels instead of roofing tiles.
> 
> It will happen one day.



I hope so to.


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## Big Fitz (Nov 5, 2011)

I forget, have we answered the problem of making any green technology without oil being the backbone of it's construction?

Since petrochemicals, specifically natural gas is the main ingredient in most modern chemicals and almost all plastics, let alone the power source in which these parts and products are manufactured... how does this hurdle get beaten?


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## Old Rocks (Nov 6, 2011)

You really don't get it, do you, Fritzy. The objection is to burning fossil fuels. Not their use as industrial chemicals.


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## westwall (Nov 6, 2011)

code1211 said:


> Chris said:
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> > A new way of making solar cells promises a cheaper way to generate electricity from the sun and new ways to integrate solar power into other products.
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That is certainly the hope.  Petroleum has so many better uses as plastics that it's sad to see it burned up as fuel.


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## bevanwillson (Nov 29, 2011)

The solar panels are what catches the sunlight. Each panel holds a large number of solar cells, also called photovoltaic cells. These are housed in the solar panels, converting sunlight into electricity.


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